# Consensus opinion: Can/Will AEW be a success with older fans?



## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

Any adult would rather watch an edgier product with adult storylines, as opposed to one written by a guy who thinks "pooper scooper" is funny.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

AEWMoxley said:


> Any adult would rather watch an edgier product with adult storylines, as opposed to one written by a guy who thinks "pooper scooper" is funny.


See, you'd think so. That's why I don't understand a lot of this feedback from the older crowd outside of WF. Its the same "LOL GEEKS" mentality from the people who also shit on WWE RAW every week. I'm wondering what the true sample size of the people that like the product is as of now, if those are just a vocal minority or cause for concern.


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## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

I’m an older fan, both in age and in years following wrestling, and I can’t wait for AEW to go weekly. I honestly don’t think age has anything to do with it. I think maybe it has more to do with when fans became fans and how much they have (or have not) been influenced by WWE. If someone is a fan and all they’ve known (and enjoyed) is WWE, naturally they won’t see a need for competition or anything different. Me, I was a fan before there was a WWF and Vince Jr was still getting bitch-slapped by Vince Sr for being a pain in the ass little brat.


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## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

@;


Beatles123 said:


> See, you'd think so. That's why I don't understand a lot of this feedback from the older crowd outside of WF. Its the same "LOL GEEKS" mentality from the people who also shit on WWE RAW every week. I'm wondering what the true sample size of the people that like the product is as of now, if those are just a vocal minority or cause for concern.


Opinions online are irrelevant. It's such a small segment of the overall fanbase that you can easily ignore it.


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## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

My Mum is an older fan and she's happy that WWE has some competition. She likely won't be watching AEW with me cos I'll have to watch it online, but I'll prob call her in when Mox appears. But she says that WWE needs somebody to go against, she also agrees with me that AEW could slide in and take NZ's wrestling fanbase with live shows cos WWE loves to skip us.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

AEWMoxley said:


> @;
> 
> Opinions online are irrelevant. It's such a small segment of the overall fanbase that you can easily ignore it.


Can you, though? The modern audience USES the internet in their daily lives. AEW especially is using the net and word of mouth to grow. Yey, on actual wrestling sites, it seems the reception has been very mixed from a certain sect of the target demographic. :shrug

Note that im not trying to concern troll. Merely to get peoples' thoughts on where this feedback comes from.



Mox Girl said:


> My Mum is an older fan and she's happy that WWE has some competition. She likely won't be watching AEW with me cos I'll have to watch it online, but I'll prob call her in when Mox appears. But she says that WWE needs somebody to go against, she also agrees with me that AEW could slide in and take NZ's wrestling fanbase with live shows cos WWE loves to skip us.


That's cool, MG! Yeah, AEW need to get a strong UK/EU/AUS-NZ presence. WWE don'y do that well, for all their boisterous crowing about it. I hope you guys get a TV deal. Canada too.


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## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

Beatles123 said:


> Can you, though? The modern audience USES the internet in their daily lives. AEW especially is using the net and word of mouth to grow. Yey, on actual wrestling sites, it seems the reception has been very mixed from a certain sect of the target demographic. :shrug
> 
> Note that im not trying to concern troll. Merely to get peoples' thoughts on where this feedback comes from.


Yes, you can entirely ignore them. The amount of people who post about wrestling online are a minuscule percentage of the total number of people who attend and watch wrestling. I also think you're exaggerating a bit. The reaction, even online, has been mostly positive from all demographics. But more importantly, AEW has been commercially successful so far without even being on TV yet.


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## InexorableJourney (Sep 10, 2016)

The best way to make episodic tv is have a format that works, and then make the viewer feel comfortable by having episodes that don't change very much week-to-week.

The best way for a sporting themed show is follow a winning format, but the with additions of the agony of defeat and the ecstasy of victory. Or indeed, actions have consequences.

Even though wrestling is scripted, the show needs to be delivered in a way that is friendly to gambling. Predictable on the surface, but unpredictable due to real life/realtime (scripted) events.


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## Fearless Viper (Apr 6, 2019)

The Older fans already shifted to UFC which is more real and 'cool' than any wrestling I guess.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

I seriously doubt it

If we're talking old as in age older people tend to stick with what they know. Hence WWE biggest demo being old folk.

If we're talking "The MNW is the only thing that matters" older fans then no. They've spent 18 years telling themselves that huge guys on roids brawling and women treated like whores is what good wrestling is. AEW isnt about to convince those folk to join.


Now of course in reality they will draw some older folk and older fans, but for the most part I don't see them convincing those folk. There best bet is to focus on teens to mid 30s, and have something edgy enough that kids might think they're cool for watching.



Fearless Viper said:


> The Older fans already shifted to UFC which is more real and 'cool' than any wrestling I guess.


No they're not, the UFC does worse ratings than WWE and always have.


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## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

The older generation along with the younger crowd are both embracing AEW. 

I'm 35 but I've also been around the internet since early days so I bridge both demos.

These guys make wrestling exciting again. What people forget is that the reason wrestling used to be interesting is you saw the performers as who they were. Unscripted, trying to get themselves over. It was personal.

WWE took that away with the Corporate blob. People lost the connection to the people they once had. Of course there are still marks. But the intelligent fanbase faded away.

We want to connect with real people, and AEW realizes that. Their characters are based on themselves, not some horseshit Vince and his writing staff contrive.


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## Blisstory (Apr 22, 2019)

Wrestling isnt in a "boom period" like people seem to think it is. This isnt going to start a boom period either. There's too much realistic combat sports today that are main stream to have "fake" combat sports be the top dog. With that said, AEW will be a nice alternative to what we've had for the past 18 years but people seriously have to get off this AEW is going to put WWE out of business and/or beat them in ratings or that its going to "be a war"....its not. 

AEW doesnt have any "household names". They dont have outside eyes looking in at them. They dont have that "draw" that is going to make people who are into other sporting ventures flip the channel over to watch. And if you say Jon Moxley Im gonna slap the shit outta you, think logically for a moment. I hope AEW gives us something different, I hope it lasts. I hope it gives guys who have great talent but are on a crowded ship another place to showcase what they have. Realistically they're not going to pull anything over a 1.0 rating (at best) but that shouldnt take away from their stars going out and showcasing their talents night in & night out.


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Fearless Viper said:


> The Older fans already shifted to UFC which is more real and 'cool' than any wrestling I guess.


that was 5 years ago and more.MMA tables are turning again people are moving away from ufc.Its been in a huge decline as the product sucks and other promotions in MMA are rising.But also wrestling seems to continue to be growing outside of wwe.I think that is enough to say that once this catches on more with main stream it will be appealing to many.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Blisstory said:


> Wrestling isnt in a "boom period" like people seem to think it is. This isnt going to start a boom period either. There's too much realistic combat sports today that are main stream to have "fake" combat sports be the top dog. With that said, AEW will be a nice alternative to what we've had for the past 18 years but people seriously have to get off this AEW is going to put WWE out of business and/or beat them in ratings or that its going to "be a war"....its not.
> 
> AEW doesnt have any "household names". They dont have outside eyes looking in at them. They dont have that "draw" that is going to make people who are into other sporting ventures flip the channel over to watch. And if you say Jon Moxley Im gonna slap the shit outta you, think logically for a moment. I hope AEW gives us something different, I hope it lasts. I hope it gives guys who have great talent but are on a crowded ship another place to showcase what they have. Realistically they're not going to pull anything over a 1.0 rating (at best) but that shouldnt take away from their stars going out and showcasing their talents night in & night out.


That isn't really in line with what i'm talking about. Im talking about the people who grew up with Stone Cold, Rock etc. and seem dead set on NOT watching this, as if the only way to appeal to them IS having a bunch of old guys in stead of looking to the future. Why is there such a notion that AEW can't work?


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## nWo4Lyfe420 (Apr 22, 2013)

I just want to see AEW push the right talent. When I see a 23 year old MJF with the best mic skills since The Rock get brushed aside in favor of giving a mega push to 38 year old never-was-been Shawn Spears it raises some cause for concern.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> I just want to see AEW push the right talent. When I see a 23 year old MJF with the best mic skills since The Rock get brushed aside in favor of giving a mega push to 38 year old never-was-been Shawn Spears it raises some cause for concern.


Disagreements with that decision aside, I think the subject goes deeper. People seem resistant to change. Even the idea of MJF seems to be making a lot of people I see scoff. The focus here is determining whether the people NOT interested in AEW are more or less than those that are.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

They're doing a good job with Dustin Rhodes Tully Blanchard and their acknowledgement of History


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## kingnoth1n (Nov 21, 2016)

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> I just want to see AEW push the right talent. When I see a 23 year old MJF with the best mic skills since The Rock get brushed aside in favor of giving a mega push to 38 year old never-was-been Shawn Spears it raises some cause for concern.


Exactly dude. We are already seeing nepotism there and runs parallel with the mistakes of yesteryear with Impact. 


What will bring people in is larger than life characters, and great stories....period. Not a never was crying because he's called "A Hand." That doen't scream great story to me 


Another good question is how do you define success? By doing good in the ratings and branching out to other deals, or by beating WWE? If that's the case then you need the above to happen, referring to great story telling, otherwise catering to a niche audience is going to give you middle of the road results.

As bliss said, people that think we are about to hit a boom period though are fooling themselves, because there are no larger than life characters currently in wrestling. There's a few that have potential, but not there yet, and that stuff doesn't grow on trees. Takes some time. (Austin 3:16 didn't lead them out of the dead zone for about a year and some change). 


There's a few that if used right I think have potential to slowly begin an uptick, but a perfect storm more or less has to happen. In fact ill name some of those wrestlers that have even a shot at being "Larger than life," in my eyes in no order:

1) Strowman
2) Killer Kross
3) Mox
4) MJF
5) Omega
6) Lacey Evans (though green af)
7) Penta Jr.
8) Pillman Jr. (though green af)
9) Cain V. (though green af)

The WWE characters would have to be repackaged heavily to have a chance, and most importantly these characters would have to be in great, intricately woven feuds.


To be honest, I do not see the types of feuds where it really makes people invest....happening any time soon, there has been 0 indication of that to me. Therefore, I think wrestling, in general, will still remain stagnant for many years.

As for AEW, I see them being moderately successful for 2-3 years, than after the new shine wears off we will see where they truly stand. I seen a post not long ago talking about "Litmus test being All Out," I laughed, because the true test is where they stand five years from now. None of us really know that answer yet, but will be fun to find out.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

kingnoth1n said:


> Exactly dude. We are already seeing nepotism there and runs parallel with the mistakes of yesteryear with Impact.
> 
> 
> What will bring people in is larger than life characters, and great stories....period. Not a never was crying because he's called "A Hand." That doen't scream great story to me
> ...


Even then, some dinosaurs will balk at AEW no matter what they do. And I have the sneaky suspicion that what people want when they say "Larger than life: is detrimental to the future,


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> I just want to see AEW push the right talent. When I see a 23 year old MJF with the best mic skills since The Rock get brushed aside in favor of giving a mega push to 38 year old never-was-been Shawn Spears it raises some cause for concern.


lol you never heard of character development ? All these stars are slowly getting developed to become big stars.That is the best way.


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

I think alot of old fans roll their eyes at the Orange Cassidy stuff as well as those comedy spots Omega/Bucks do.


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## the44boz (Apr 29, 2014)

No it's target audience will be teenage neck beards.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

the44boz said:


> No it's target audience will be teenage neck beards.


See? This. Right here. This is the crux of the thread.

Why do you feel this is the case?


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## Piehound (Dec 16, 2015)

Beatles123 said:


> Can older fans even HANDLE a "Modern" product?
> 
> Do you as an older fan have any difficulty enjoying AEW? Do you think mist fans ARE enjoying it outside of its' fan bubble?



Ok.. define "older fan"..can ya do that for me? Huh? Can ya? 

..oh.. and if you can do that..then STOP PUTTING ALL OF IN THE SAME DAMN BUCKET!!!! 

Can an older fan "HANDLE" a modern product?! WTF... seriously.. what the gawdamn fuck kinda "ooohh..I'm gonna get likes and rep because I'm edgy" kind of bullshit is that?!

I started watching sometime in the mid 70's (75-76).. that's a little on the north side of 40 years. I'm guessing that is longer than most of you have been alive. AmIright?

I watched JCP (Mid-Atlantic), CWF, Georgia, Smokey Mtn. ICW (Poffo), World Class (Texas), a smattering of mid-South, WWF, WCW, ROH, NJPW, WWE, NXT and more that I can't remember because I'm old, drunk and cranky..

So, will I watch AEW? Yup. They do have some of the best young talent around, even if the Young Bucks rely too much superkick spam..

Get to know a few "older fans" before speculating about what we can and can't handle.. Believe it or not, some of us were actually around when the average wrestler wasn't roid'ed and coked up. 

Ok I'm done cutting my promo now. Oh one more thing....



Spoiler: .


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

Older fans may also have issues with talent like Sonny Kiss.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Piehound said:


> Ok.. define "older fan"..can ya do that for me? Huh? Can ya?
> 
> ..oh.. and if you can do that..then STOP PUTTING ALL OF IN THE SAME DAMN BUCKET!!!!
> 
> ...


:shrug Thats what the thread was for. In fairness I was talking about the majority, and I don't think most who pine for those days are like you are. I'd love to be wrong.


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## kingnoth1n (Nov 21, 2016)

Piehound said:


> Ok.. define "older fan"..can ya do that for me? Huh? Can ya?
> 
> ..oh.. and if you can do that..then STOP PUTTING ALL OF IN THE SAME DAMN BUCKET!!!!
> 
> ...



:heston possibly the post of the year


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

kingnoth1n said:


> :heston possibly the post of the year


I didn't have a problem with what he said! :/


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

I'm 39 and grew up on WWF. I guess that makes me older. I haven't been excited for Raw since 2001 but I'm definitely excited for AEW.


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## the44boz (Apr 29, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> See? This. Right here. This is the crux of the thread.
> 
> Why do you feel this is the case?


Because I've been to a few on these indie shows and that's all I saw we young neck beards. They had no knowledge of what wrestling is all about and were just entertained by the flips and kicks. A.E.W is a glorified indie wrestling promotion just like TNA and ROH.


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## Arktik (Mar 21, 2007)

The people who are pre-disposed to liking AEW seem to really love it. The people who are not already in their wheel house are not really given much to be excited about.

I guess I could be classified as an older fan as I have been watching for almost 30 years now and there are bright spots, but the overall presentation has been poor to me. The only characters that have gotten me emotionally invested are Cody, Dustin, MJF and Shawn Spears. I could probably be coaxed into liking Luchasaurus and Jungle Boy if they ditched Marco Stunt. The rest of their roster has not really been doing anything to get me invested. I was really excited for Moxley, but his match with Janela was awful and the "feud" with Kenny Omega has no heat to it because Kenny's beatdown looks like shit and he can't cut a good promo to save his life. Jericho/Page has potential, but once again where is the heat? A few in-ring scuffles doesn't make a feud heated.


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## nWo4Lyfe420 (Apr 22, 2013)

shandcraig said:


> lol you never heard of character development ? *All these stars are slowly getting developed to become big stars.That is the best way*.


This is a lame excuse to try and rationalize young talent being held down due to nepotism.

Why does MJF need more development than fucking Spears before getting a big push? He already has the best mic skills in the business at age 23. He is his own tier of mic skill. Who stole the show at DON? MJF did, while Hangman stood frozen in place because he has no confidence in front of a crowd. Yet the latter is in the first world title match. That's nepotism at play there. Cody even knows Hangman isn't ready, that's why he won't give him a mic in front of a crowd. But he feels obligated to push his buddy, even if he is by far the weak link of the Elite.

Every episode of BTE MJF is in he is far and away the star. Every interview he does is gold. I'm tired of hearing that just because he's young that he needs more development. Not all men are created equal. Spears is the one who needs development. MJF is ready to be THE man right now.


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

As in building up a characte and atory telling. We all know these guys will all pass spears, thats why hea getting some shine now. Why do u want mjf thriwn down our throats as a main guy right away ,its coming. Stonecold worked his way up


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> This is a lame excuse to try and rationalize young talent being held down due to nepotism.
> 
> Why does MJF need more development than fucking Spears before getting a big push? He already has the best mic skills in the business at age 23. He is his own tier of mic skill. Who stole the show at DON? MJF did, while Hangman stood frozen in place because he has no confidence in front of a crowd. Yet the latter is in the first world title match. That's nepotism at play there. Cody even knows Hangman isn't ready, that's why he won't give him a mic in front of a crowd. But he feels obligated to push his buddy, even if he is by far the weak link of the Elite.
> 
> Every episode of BTE MJF is in he is far and away the star. Every interview he does is gold. I'm tired of hearing that just because he's young that he needs more development. Not all men are created equal. Spears is the one who needs development. MJF is ready to be THE man right now.


This isn't the point of the thread, though. You are not typically part of the issue I am concerned with.



the44boz said:


> Because I've been to a few on these indie shows and that's all I saw we young neck beards. They had no knowledge of what wrestling is all about and were just entertained by the flips and kicks. A.E.W is a glorified indie wrestling promotion just like TNA and ROH.


But you went to the shows. How are you not different than they? Besides, AEW would do well to be what ROH was once upon a time on a bigger scale.


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> This is a lame excuse to try and rationalize young talent being held down due to nepotism.
> 
> Why does MJF need more development than fucking Spears before getting a big push? He already has the best mic skills in the business at age 23. He is his own tier of mic skill. Who stole the show at DON? MJF did, while Hangman stood frozen in place because he has no confidence in front of a crowd. Yet the latter is in the first world title match. That's nepotism at play there. Cody even knows Hangman isn't ready, that's why he won't give him a mic in front of a crowd. But he feels obligated to push his buddy, even if he is by far the weak link of the Elite.
> 
> Every episode of BTE MJF is in he is far and away the star. Every interview he does is gold. I'm tired of hearing that just because he's young that he needs more development. Not all men are created equal. Spears is the one who needs development. MJF is ready to be THE man right now.


This isn't just an MJF issue they have alot on the card that doesn't make sense, not sure why they didn't just do Jericho vs. Omega for the title or run a tournament, Page is like an upper mid-card, even Jobber Jannely would have made more sense.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Thank uou to the people who gave actual, insightful feedback instead of hateful banter directed at myself. I appreciate it.


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## Hangman (Feb 3, 2017)

As long as they 

Focus on good wrestling matches
Establish stars quickly
Continue promoting feuds without over exposing talent

The MUST avoid

Dick flips.
Invisible Hand Grenades.
Whatever the fuck Sonny Kiss is supposed to be.
Pandering to snowflakes, to violent for you? Cry somewhere else.
Booking the elite to steam roll everyone.
Constantly taking pot shots at wwe every promo of every week


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## MOX (Dec 6, 2011)

Blisstory said:


> people seriously have to get off this AEW is going to put WWE out of business


Literally nobody is saying this.

As for the OP, the EVPs and Khan have repeatedly said they are trying to provide a little something for everyone. On the same card they'll have 20-something hunks doing flips for the teens to have crushes on and seasoned veterans putting on ring psychology clinics.

Whether that approach will work remains to be seen. I hope so, and I definitely like the idea of a broad range of styles and characters. I might not enjoy every segment, but I'll stay tuned in because maybe the next segment will be more my cup of tea.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

First of all, /asp/ shits on everything so that isn't a valid temperature for anything.

Now, to the question, yes I believe it can. However, a couple of things need to happen to assure it:

1) *Knock it off with the political pandering.* I don't mind if you have to put over certain things as it pertains to your sponsors or business partners every once in a while (Fight for the Fallen) but do not excessively beat it over the viewer like WWE does (also, Fight for the Fallen). The current political climate, no matter what alignment or party you belong to, is already toxic and depressing as it is. I use forms of entertainment to escape it. I don't need Brandi and Cody condescendingly preaching at me like I'm an idiot. Just give me great stories and compelling wrestling. That's it.

2) Speaking of which, *provide wrestling and characters that matter *. WWE is in the abysmal state it is in because as great as the in-ring action is, some if not most of it ultimately does not matter. Whether it's by 50/50 booking, inconsistent storytelling, lack of character development, abiding by network executives, whatever. The matches can go twenty or more minutes but if there is no point other than to have a match, what did it really accomplish? Nothing. When wrestlers are wrestling in the ring, there needs to be a purpose. The viewers need to have an emotional investment as to who these guys are, what is their story, and why should I watch it? WWE, and yes that goes for NXT, largely fail on that aspect. Pro wrestling is about drama. Exploit it.

3) If you're going to be an alternative, then actually *become an alternative*. Don't be different just for the sake of being different and because it sounds cool. Take advantage of the tools that WWE refuses to use. Sure, they may have Asuka, Kairi, and Io but they aren't necessarily showcasing a Joshi style product in their company. I like that AEW has incorporated that type of wrestling because it's different from everywhere else and it becomes your own kind of brand like the international Cruiserweights were in WCW in the 90s. Where wins and losses clearly do not matter in WWE, AEW makes the effort to make it the focal point of their matches to where it actually enhances the match and creates for possible stories for multi-dimensional character down the road. Just don't be too different. You still need your larger than life characters and compelling stories. Simply providing great in-ring wrestling will not get the job done.

4) *Do not insult the viewers' intelligence.* I'm not saying you have to cater and pander to every single thing that the audience wants. At the end of the day, it's your company and you should book it how you see fit. However, that doesn't mean you should patronize them to make them feel like they're idiots. The WWE, because they're the only game in town, could afford thinking lowly of their fans and making fun of them with the nonsense they have written and displayed on television. Their mindset was that they'll always come back like a battered dog because they're all they got. Now that there is a legitimate mainstream alternative, they can't do that anymore or people will simply switch over to AEW. As long as AEW provides content to where while you may not like it, you can understand why it was done and it doesn't insult their intelligence, then you are in good standing with an already disenfranchised fanbase from WWE.

It's not hard to entice those viewers to AEW. It really isn't. Simply don't do what WWE does that negatively affects their product and you can't mess this up even if you tried.


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

WINNING said:


> First of all, /asp/ shits on everything so that isn't a valid temperature for anything.
> 
> Now, to the question, yes I believe it can. However, a couple of things need to happen to assure it:
> 
> ...


I'd like to add..

Don't make the mistake WWE has made and put all the time and effort into 1 guy as THE guy, try to elevate a bunch of guys and see who gets over more with the audience.


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## SPCDRI (Mar 15, 2010)

Blisstory said:


> Realistically they're not going to pull anything over a 1.0 rating (at best) but that shouldnt take away from their stars going out and showcasing their talents night in & night out.


with the nature of television being in a decline and shows wanting live content, TNT would be nutting themselves for AEW running over a million viewers. They can play their cards right and hit that in half a year. TNA hit it on a smaller network. 

Another promotion on major network television doing about a million viewers would be huge for pro wrestling now.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dunno what specifies "older fan" here - age? length of watching pro graps? If the former, then I can't say, not exactly middle-aged yet. But as far as someone who's watched pro wrestling all of their life and plans on never stopping: yes, the can succeed with me.

Simple.


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## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

Probably not, but who cares! AEW doesn't need them to be a success, not just with current fans, but the mainstream as well.

Let them live in their 80's/90's nostalgic trance, it has nothing to do with modern wrestling and why AEW will be a success.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

I just turned 40 this month and I am all about AEW

.... but I’m a young soul 

Edit: i watch shit to see people do what I can’t. I fully believe i can do what Goldberg does, or Undertaker or any other ‘big guy’ - with training (I can’t, but in my heart I think i can)

I know I’m never doing the shit Omega or the Bucks do


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Older fans are not going to dig a roster full of cruiserweights. I just hope AEW is not ROH for the 20's. I don't want The Weekly Adventures of Vanilla Midgets. I want a mainstream alternative... Variety's article today about AEW catering to 'hardcore fans' is mildly worrying. This is the 'teenage neckbeard' thing someone else showed concern about.

Few care about indie darlings outside the IWC. And 'pushing' them doesn't work. Casuals, therefore TNT execs, will eventually turn their backs on 5-foot-nothing flip floppers cheered on by 200 'this is awesome' neckbeards.

I also fear that they'll not hire any 'big men' through fear of making the entire roster look like dwarfs. Some of these guys aren't even in shape, on top of being small and boring.

If they're trying to go for the 'lapsed' wrestling fan, as Cody said, then the lapsed wrestling fan is a tough crowd. They grew up on larger than life A-listers. Scott Steiner, Hulk Hogan, The Rock, Rick Rude.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

roadkill_ said:


> Older fans are not going to dig a roster full of cruiserweights. I just hope AEW is not ROH for the 20's. I don't want The Weekly Adventures of Vanilla Midgets. I want a mainstream alternative... Variety's article today about AEW catering to 'hardcore fans' is mildly worrying. This is the 'teenage neckbeard' thing someone else showed concern about.
> 
> Few care about indie darlings outside the IWC. And 'pushing' them doesn't work. Casuals, therefore TNT execs, will eventually turn their backs on 5-foot-nothing flip floppers cheered on by 200 'this is awesome' neckbeards.
> 
> ...


But all of those people were terrible people save rude, and not what wrestling needs today by a long shot. What you want is just stereotypical anti-small-guy talk.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> But all of those people were terrible people save rude, and not what wrestling needs today by a long shot. What you want is just stereotypical anti-small-guy talk.


But the thing is Steiner, Rock, Hogan, Rude and a lot of those guys were entertaining. You can use your "well I know good in-ring wrestling" card to say they couldn't wrestle, but you can't deny they knew how to work a crowd. Nothing today suggests that knowing how to work and entertain a crowd stopped mattering. 

Is it fair that a lot of people won't even give guys like The Bucks a chance because they aren't big enough, no it's not fair. But it is life. I said earlier in the thread for some older fans, size and lack of slutty women would be an issue for a lot of older fans


----------



## Bananas (Jun 18, 2017)

Isn't the average age of WWE's viewership something like 45? I think it was the same with TNA when they were on Spike too as I remember the joke used to be that only old poor people would actually watch Impact. So given wrestling TV viewership skews old generally, I doubt AEW will struggle too much with that demographic. TV values younger viewers anyway. The key demo for them will young men with disposable income.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

this is seeming like a major "vocal minority" thing.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> But the thing is Steiner, Rock, Hogan, Rude and a lot of those guys were entertaining. You can use your "well I know good in-ring wrestling" card to say they couldn't wrestle, but you can't deny they knew how to work a crowd. Nothing today suggests that knowing how to work and entertain a crowd stopped mattering.
> 
> Is it fair that a lot of people won't even give guys like The Bucks a chance because they aren't big enough, no it's not fair. But it is life. I said earlier in the thread for some older fans, size and lack of slutty women would be an issue for a lot of older fans


It depends how you define working a crowd. I'm of the opinion that the same stuff people shit on Orange Cassidy for is the same thing people marked for Hogan doing back in the day. Difference is Cassidy could actually wrestle if he wanted to. :shrug

Even Austin could have had he been allowed.

I digress, though. Size should not matter in the modern age and cartoon characters like we had in '98 aren't what we need either.


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan (May 9, 2017)

well they are at a disadvantage by not having legends like Bliss or Orton on the show, but they certainly have a shot at being a reasonable alternative to the 'E.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> It depends how you define working a crowd. I'm of the opinion that the same stuff people shit on Orange Cassidy for is the same thing people marked for Hogan doing back in the day. Difference is Cassidy could actually wrestle if he wanted to. :shrug
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not talking any semantics, I'm talking the pure ability to work and entertain a crowd. I think we as hardcore fans (myself included) sometimes overcomplicate what makes a good wrestler. You can say somebody like Rock wasn't a good wrestler, but ultimately he has a lot of matches that were reacted to better than Dean Malenko matches. On the flip somebody can say "The Bucks aren't wrestlers they're acrobats". But they're having matches that are more well received by the crowd than someone like Corbin(Who I like). 

While I would agree size shouldn't matter, but the thing is it always will. I like to see a good brawl between two hosses. For some hosses brawling and doing power moves is what they mainly want from wrestling and that's okay. For some fans they want to see outlandish characters like MJF get pushed heavy and be able to talk their shit. That combination of brawling and outlandish characters isn't really being filled by any company for those old attitude fans. (AEW does have a lot of characters, but I don't think many are outlandish yet besides MJF, LuchaSaurus, and Dark Order)


----------



## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Beatles123 said:


> But all of those people were terrible people save rude, and not what wrestling needs today by a long shot. What you want is just stereotypical anti-small-guy talk.


The Rock, Scott Steiner and Hogan were 'terrible'?



NondescriptWWEfan said:


> well they are at a disadvantage by not having legends like Bliss or Orton on the show, but they certainly have a shot at being a reasonable alternative to the 'E.


Orton is a 'legend'? Orton is a contributing factor to why I (and others I know) quit watching wrestling. The post-Attitude/War guys were major disappointments. Going from the likes of Austin/Sting/Rock, to their successors like Orton/JBL, was a major downgrade. They couldn't keep up the slack.

I saw and see Orton as wooden as fuck. Heading to the ring and frowning real hard doesn't cut it. A fucking charisma vacuum.


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan (May 9, 2017)

roadkill_ said:


> Orton is a 'legend'? Orton is a contributing factor to why I (and others I know) quit watching wrestling. The post-Attitude/War guys were major disappointments. Going from the likes of Austin/Sting/Rock, to their successors like Orton/JBL, was a major downgrade. They couldn't keep up the slack.
> 
> I saw and see Orton as wooden as fuck. Heading to the ring and frowning real hard doesn't cut it. A fucking charisma vacuum.


but he draws a lot of people and if he went to aew a huge portion of fans would switch to watch him there.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

roadkill_ said:


> The Rock, Scott Steiner and Hogan were 'terrible'?


For different reasons each, but yes. None of them could work today. Cringe-ola. Unless you see Hammerstone as a modern Rick Rude. Aside from that, the "Entertainment" in them has aged like spoiled milk.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

Beatles123 said:


> For different reasons each, but yes. None of them could work today. Cringe-ola. Unless you see Hammerstone as a modern Rick Rude. Aside from that, the "Entertainment" in them has aged like spoiled milk.


The only reason you believe that though is because you have seen them, and those guys acts are now 20+ years old.

But back in 1984, people like Hulk Hogan ruled wrestling with an iron fist.

You tend to be guilty of the very thing that you are preaching to everyone here.

Wrestling is not a "one size fits all" It should be evolving and moving forward.

Every single genre has done this, comic books, tv shows, movies, sport leagues, they all look different than they did in 1999 and 2000.

What AEW doesn't do to a fan like myself (was a teen in the Attitude Era) is be different than what I have seen since 2000

I saw crazy cruiserweights like Mysterio, and Juvi, so doing crazy moves doesnt impress me.

I saw Terry Funk, and Sandman and ECW, so crazy hardcore spots don't interest me.

I saw guys like Bryan Danielson, and Lance Storm, so "catch as catch can" wrestling doesn't impress me.

So "the work' isn't going to impress me, and trust me, some of these guys are great workers... but they tend to rely on the past.

I cringe when I see the Young Bucks do the Too Sweet sign, because it isn't original... and it looks f'n hokey.

But I enjoy Cody's character, and the presentation of him with Pharoah and Brandi.

I like Omega's meme impersonation, and the Young Bucks over the top themed costumes.

But give me something different, that is why Stranger things, and Game of Thrones, and Walking Dead are popular... they came with something original and different in a time where everyone is copying each other.

Orange Cassidy pops me, because it is different, it is entertaining, and in the right vein, and story... it would work.

But to say "older fans" wont like the product because they are conditioned not to, is disingenuous. And it is an insult, because maybe, just maybe we are bored, because we have seen all this shit before


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Scott Steiner never drew any money so not sure why he is being talked about in same vein as rock, Hogan and Austin.

Sting drew big on one show which had a year long build opposite biggest star at time Hogan. He never drew big previous to that or after.

Not sure what older fans mean. Pro wrestling and sports fans by their nature are getting older and cable viewers are older. I mean millions of old dudes over 60 tune in nightly to watch Fox news, MSNBC and cnn. That's the cable makeup unless it's reality shows like Kardashians or love hip hop then it's women 18-29 mostly.

One thing i will say if you aim to try and win back long lapsed fans from 20 years ago it's a waste of time. Most of them stopped watching forever in the case of wcw 99 and WWE summer 2002. I mean if Hogan vs Vince, rock vs Austin 3 in 2003 couldn't even draw half the domestic numbers that rock vs Austin 2 did in 2001 you know they are gone.

Probably have more success trying to lure people who were young kids in say 2008-10 at the height of Cena, Mysterio and Jeff Hardy. There are millions of fans in that bracket who would be late teens/early 20s now


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Rock got over because 15/10 charisma and a fantastic seller in the ring.

I never liked his offense. Slappy punches, Rock bottom is a weak looking finisher, his elbow was all flash and didn't look like it hurt anybody.

Very little of his offense actually looked effective. He was always at his best talking trash and getting his ass beat.


----------



## The_It_Factor (Aug 14, 2012)

I’m an older fan and I’m glad to see that WWE has competition... but from what little I’ve seen of AEW, it comes off as kind of stereotypical modern indy wrestling. Some cringe apron spots (the dude that jumps backwards into the apron), comedy stuff (the guy getting lubed up before his match and then the other guy selling it...that dude that barely puts effort into anything, etc.), and then just pretty standard high spot wrestling. Doesn’t it also feature a lot of inter-gender matches? Maybe I’m wrong about that

I’m not exactly “hating” on it, but I turned off the preshow of that last event after a few minutes. 

I guess I’m in the boat of “wrestling is dead, I just don’t care anymore” because nothing has excited me in years, with the exception of a few moments/matches that don’t warrant me watching hours and hours of wrestling each week for 60 seconds of excitement.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The_It_Factor said:


> I’m an older fan and I’m glad to see that WWE has competition... but from what little I’ve seen of AEW, it comes off as kind of stereotypical modern indy wrestling. Some cringe apron spots (the dude that jumps backwards into the apron), comedy stuff (the guy getting lubed up before his match and then the other guy selling it...that dude that barely puts effort into anything, etc.), and then just pretty standard high spot wrestling. Doesn’t it also feature a lot of inter-gender matches? Maybe I’m wrong about that
> 
> I’m not exactly “hating” on it, but I turned off the preshow of that last event after a few minutes.
> 
> I guess I’m in the boat of “wrestling is dead, I just don’t care anymore” because nothing has excited me in years, with the exception of a few moments/matches that don’t warrant me watching hours and hours of wrestling each week for 60 seconds of excitement.


Well there is no intergender matches. Though some assholes folk may sell them having intergender matches since Nyla Rose is a transgendered woman. 

But I'd say what to the TNT show starts and they have more time to build stories properly. If you check out their "Road To" series on YouTube they're doing pretty well on building up matches, which is promising for when weekly TV is here


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

The_It_Factor said:


> I’m an older fan and I’m glad to see that WWE has competition... but from what little I’ve seen of AEW, it comes off as kind of stereotypical modern indy wrestling. Some cringe apron spots (the dude that jumps backwards into the apron), comedy stuff (the guy getting lubed up before his match and then the other guy selling it...that dude that barely puts effort into anything, etc.), and then just pretty standard high spot wrestling. Doesn’t it also feature a lot of inter-gender matches? Maybe I’m wrong about that
> 
> I’m not exactly “hating” on it, but I turned off the preshow of that last event after a few minutes.
> 
> I guess I’m in the boat of “wrestling is dead, I just don’t care anymore” because nothing has excited me in years, with the exception of a few moments/matches that don’t warrant me watching hours and hours of wrestling each week for 60 seconds of excitement.


I wasn't a fan of Cassidy (low effort guy), but he was just a Cameo in that one Battle Royal.

I don't like Nakazawa (oil guy) either.

There's not going to be intergender, Tony was clear about that.

You should watch the rest of the card. I'm not a fan of any of the things you're disliking, but the rest is quite good and building to something great I think.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Tilon said:


> Rock got over because 15/10 charisma and a fantastic seller in the ring.
> 
> I never liked his offense. Slappy punches, Rock bottom is a weak looking finisher, his elbow was all flash and didn't look like it hurt anybody.
> 
> Very little of his offense actually looked effective. He was always at his best talking trash and getting his ass beat.


His selling was really over the top and not believable in slightest.

What rock had like Hogan was a great ability to work a crowd and keep them invested whether it was 2 minutes or 30 minutes. This is one thing hardcore fans never understood about Cena because he was in same boat. His performance at ONS 2006 is simply amazing not for his ring-work but how he just keeps the crowd on his ass from first bell.

Problem with modern wrestlers is their inability to get crowd invested once bell rings. It's especially prevalent in guys that are hailed 'good to great mic workers'. Seemed to start with Mr Kennedy. They watch videos of rock and see him doing catchphrases and being all cocky and think that's it..that's what I will do. Course they ignore his incredible ability in-ring to work the crowd


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The_It_Factor said:


> I’m an older fan and I’m glad to see that WWE has competition... but from what little I’ve seen of AEW, it comes off as kind of stereotypical modern indy wrestling. Some cringe apron spots (the dude that jumps backwards into the apron), comedy stuff (the guy getting lubed up before his match and then the other guy selling it...that dude that barely puts effort into anything, etc.), and then just pretty standard high spot wrestling. Doesn’t it also feature a lot of inter-gender matches? Maybe I’m wrong about that
> 
> I’m not exactly “hating” on it, but I turned off the preshow of that last event after a few minutes.
> 
> I guess I’m in the boat of “wrestling is dead, I just don’t care anymore” because nothing has excited me in years, with the exception of a few moments/matches that don’t warrant me watching hours and hours of wrestling each week for 60 seconds of excitement.


Did you catch Cody v Dustin?


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

validreasoning said:


> His selling was really over the top and not believable in slightest.


Nothing he did was believable, but it was funny as Hell.

That's part of what made him so popular.


----------



## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

NondescriptWWEfan said:


> but he draws a lot of people and if he went to aew a huge portion of fans would switch to watch him there.


Orton has never drawn a dime in his life, despite being over-pushed.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

validreasoning said:


> His selling was really over the top and not believable in slightest.
> 
> What rock had like Hogan was a great ability to work a crowd and keep them invested whether it was 2 minutes or 30 minutes. This is one thing hardcore fans never understood about Cena because he was in same boat. His performance at ONS 2006 is simply amazing not for his ring-work but how he just keeps the crowd on his ass from first bell.
> 
> Problem with modern wrestlers is their inability to get crowd invested once bell rings. It's especially prevalent in guys that are hailed 'good to great mic workers'. Seemed to start with Mr Kennedy. They watch videos of rock and see him doing catchphrases and being all cocky and think that's it..that's what I will do. Course they ignore his incredible ability in-ring to work the crowd


To add to this: Rock had one ability that people take for granted the most nowadays.

he was in character the entire match.

The ability to be in touch with his character, and know that is what the character would do in that situation is something, that people don't do enough of for the sake of spots.

When The Rock grabs the headset during Rock Bottom 98 and starts talking shit to Mankind is something his character would do.

How many times would Austin drink beers with guys, give them a sense of comfort, and then BAM finger, kick, stunner.

Sometimes that is what keeps the fans invested.


----------



## The_It_Factor (Aug 14, 2012)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Did you catch Cody v Dustin?


I didn’t, but I would like to based on what I’ve heard. That sounds like a good match to catch up on this weekend!


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Yes because of unscripted promos. Look at already how much more over Moxley was then WWE and he was quite over there. Not to mention Dustin Rhodes back to where he was 20 years ago and wow look at Shawn Spears. He was over as a underdog baby face on NXT. But AEW creating whole new heel character and putting him with Tully. 


These guys are very smart creatively. This is gonna come off well to all ages. Plus with Khan money and TNT they will have enough marketing that all WWE fans will know about AEW by the time they start on tv. That exposure and marketing money is always what TNA lacked in trying to compete with WWE along with lack of creativity with characters. 


When people tune in to AEW they will see Jericho and will see how much better Moxley is then Ambrose. They say wow I don't remember Cody Rhodes this good in WWE and they will remember evil Neville as Pac from cruiserweight being on Raw. They will realize guys like Omega/Page are good as guys like AJ and Rollins. While Young Bucks will get Hardy Boy comparisons etc. 


Not to mention people are gonna love MJF and Kip Sabain will remind people of Finn Balor. Or Shawn Spears playing heel who feels he's been treated unfairly like Dolph Ziggler. Not to mention AEW will have hardcore/daredevil types like Janela/Allin/Havoc that WWE doesn't have. The main difference is these guys won't be scripted and will come off way better in AEW. Then those WWE guys do.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

DMD Mofomagic said:


> The only reason you believe that though is because you have seen them, and those guys acts are now 20+ years old.
> 
> But back in 1984, people like Hulk Hogan ruled wrestling with an iron fist.
> 
> ...


No. The reason I say that is because a lot of what they did wasn't even trying and all the angles were self serving and benefited no one. Hulk hogan throwing generic looking punches playing a generic-ass super hero cartoon character isn't entertaining by today's standard. especially with the purely idiotic booking he had. Same with Rock. Every time he was on the mic was pure cancerous to the career of anyone else other than himself, with crappy matches to boot.

Right, in 1984....the shittiest period in wrestling....where they had some of the worst storylines and characters known to man other than Piper, Andre and Savage. Where woman were treated like whores backstage by pimps, Black people were seen as African stereotypes or "SOUL BRUTHAS", and every foreigner was evil because "MUH COLD WAR N SHIT"...Yeah, no. Everything you thought was cool then was still trash and you were fools for buying into it in the first place. Thank god we've evolved or you would probably think Khali was a great wrestler today. BUT ITS OKAY BECAUSE WE HAD MR. T! :hogan fpalm

Maybe I am. I've not pretended I haven't ever been, but I've also been consistent on a lot of what I say, and I maintain that all wrestling REALLY needs is a solidly booked product with booking that actually helps make more stars than just one at a time and doesn't insult the audience. 

As for all the stuff you mentioned, It probably doesn't interest you because you've also had to see watered down versions of those things for years. Thats why people enjoyed Cody/Dustin: They stopped playing with kiddy gloves and actually made a real bloodbath out of it. As long as AEW has a well balanced mix of styles, they'll keep staying fresh. 

If you saw Bryan, then you'll appreciate the fact that AEW is going to give us a company, knock on wood, that people like him NEEDED back in 2010 and still do today so that their careers hopefully aren't wasted by out of touch assholes.

Walking Dead and GOT aren't original. They're just well executed and don't talk down to fans (at least they didn't at first.) All AEW has to do is build a product that rewards investment the same way.

I think you're tired for the wrong reasons. You just need a reason to care. I don't think Wrestling needs to go back and re-invent itself from scratch for that to happen. :shrug.


----------



## Schwartzxz (Jul 9, 2017)

Beatles123 said:


> Im talking about the people who grew up with Stone Cold, Rock etc. and seem dead set on NOT watching this


so you say this and you really dont understand why many of older fans like me dont enjoy AEW or wrestling in general these days? you dont see the difference between current wrestlers and guys like Randy Savage, Rick Rude, Bret Hart, Roddy Piper, Eddie Guerrero?

I could go in details but I wont for now because I did in the past and it seems like nobody understands because they dont view wrestling the same way I do. to a lot of fans today wrestling is these goofy looking guys who dont take anything seriously and think a good wrestling match is flips, crazy athletic moves, crazy bumps, overselling and doing just stupid shit in the ring. MJF is one the rare wrestlers today who can talk and knows how to play a heel. he gets it. props to him. I just hope he doesnt start doing stupid shit like everybody else.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Schwartzxz said:


> so you say this and you really dont understand why many of older fans like me dont enjoy AEW or wrestling in general these days? you dont see the difference between current wrestlers and guys like Randy Savage, Rick Rude, Bret Hart, Roddy Piper, Eddie Guerrero?
> 
> I could go in details but I wont for now because I did in the past and it seems like nobody understands because they dont view wrestling the same way I do. to a lot of fans today wrestling is these goofy looking guys who dont take anything seriously and think a good wrestling match is flips, crazy athletic moves, crazy bumps, overselling and doing just stupid shit in the ring. MJF is one the rare wrestlers today who can talk and knows how to play a heel. he gets it. props to him. I just hope he doesnt start doing stupid shit like everybody else.


Depends on who we compare who to. Maybe you aren't the kind that i'm referencing either. :shrug


----------



## Schwartzxz (Jul 9, 2017)

Beatles123 said:


> No. The reason I say that is because a lot of what they did wasn't even trying and all the angles were self serving and benefited no one. Hulk hogan throwing generic looking punches playing a generic-ass super hero cartoon character isn't entertaining by today's standard. especially with the purely idiotic booking he had. Same with Rock. Every time he was on the mic was pure cancerous to the career of anyone else other than himself, with crappy matches to boot.
> 
> Right, in 1984....the shittiest period in wrestling....where they had some of the worst storylines and characters known to man other than Piper, Andre and Savage. Where woman were treated like whores backstage by pimps, Black people were seen as African stereotypes or "SOUL BRUTHAS", and every foreigner was evil because "MUH COLD WAR N SHIT"...Yeah, no. Everything you thought was cool then was still trash and you were fools for buying into it in the first place. Thank god we've evolved or you would probably think Khali was a great wrestler today. BUT ITS OKAY BECAUSE WE HAD MR. T! :hogan fpalm


this right here is what I mentioned in a previous post why Im not trying to explain this shit anymore to people like you. you shit on those guys and wrestling in those days but praise AEW as this cool new thing or whatever. you lost all credibility with me. not that it should matter to you because Im just a wrestling fan like everybody else here but Im certanly not reading your posts anymore or responding to them.
I hope Ill still be on this forum when people start turning against AEW and die hards start making more excuses for them. its gonna be fun.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Schwartzxz said:


> this right here is what I mentioned in a previous post why Im not trying to explain this shit anymore to people like you. you shit on those guys and wrestling in those days but praise AEW as this cool new thing or whatever. you lost all credibility with me. not that it should matter to you because Im just a wrestling fan like everybody else here but Im certanly not reading your posts anymore or responding to them.
> I hope Ill still be on this forum when people start turning against AEW and die hards start making more excuses for them. its gonna be fun.


:taker Who said you had to ignore me? i wasn't denying you the right to like something.


----------



## jeffatron (Nov 21, 2016)

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> I just want to see AEW push the right talent. When I see a 23 year old MJF with the best mic skills since The Rock get brushed aside in favor of giving a mega push to 38 year old never-was-been Shawn Spears it raises some cause for concern.


Gthey've had THREE shows. MJF just signed an extension. He's gonna get his push. You really need to give shit a chance and stop focusing on ONE dude.

@Mox Girl; any good indies in NZ? I'm going in December.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420 (Apr 22, 2013)

jeffatron said:


> Gthey've had THREE shows. MJF just signed an extension. He's gonna get his push. You really need to give shit a chance and stop focusing on ONE dude.


You can't deny they've pushed him further along down the card at each show. He didn't even get promo time at FFTF. I suspect that was because they didn't want him to completely bury Spears.

If it wasn't for Spears being buddies with Cody we both know MJF would have a high profile match at All Out. I don't doubt he'll eventually get pushed, but the fact that they're delaying it to push Spears is a slap in the face to MJF and to wrestling fans.

If you've got a 23 year old Michael Jordan on your roster do you bench him to give a 38 year old "good hand" his 15 minutes of fame? The coach would be fired on the spot if he did that. Tony has to step in and put a stop to the nepotism going on here.


----------



## HugoCortez (Mar 7, 2019)

AEWMoxley said:


> Any adult would rather watch an edgier product with adult storylines, as opposed to one written by a guy who thinks "pooper scooper" is *sophisticated*.



FTFY.


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

No, because..Size? AEW is full of midgets.

Old fans like wrestlers who look the apart.


----------



## jeffatron (Nov 21, 2016)

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> You can't deny they've pushed him further along down the card at each show. He didn't even get promo time at FFTF. I suspect that was because they didn't want him to completely bury Spears.
> 
> If it wasn't for Spears being buddies with Cody we both know MJF would have a high profile match at All Out. I don't doubt he'll eventually get pushed, but the fact that they're delaying it to push Spears is a slap in the face to MJF and to wrestling fans.
> 
> If you've got a 23 year old Michael Jordan on your roster do you bench him to give a 38 year old "good hand" his 15 minutes of fame? The coach would be fired on the spot if he did that. Tony has to step in and put a stop to the nepotism going on here.


dude the fact he's 23 is exactly why they aree taking their time. jesus christ your obsessed. You sound like you want to stick your head in his trunks while furiously masturbating. 

MJF will be world champ one day, Spears won't. That should be good enough for you, learn some patience and stop being such an obsessed mong. You literally repeat the same shit over and over again like you do in the Seth threads. it's kind of sad.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Schwartzxz said:


> this right here is what I mentioned in a previous post why Im not trying to explain this shit anymore to people like you. you shit on those guys and wrestling in those days but praise AEW as this cool new thing or whatever. you lost all credibility with me. not that it should matter to you because Im just a wrestling fan like everybody else here but Im certanly not reading your posts anymore or responding to them.
> I hope Ill still be on this forum when people start turning against AEW and die hards start making more excuses for them. its gonna be fun.


So you are mad because he doesn't like Hogan but likes AEW? I have never got the hype with Hogan and never enjoyed his promos. Found them pretty dull. I disagree with him on The Rock but this post is just bizarre.

You know people are allowed to not be a fan of stuff in the 80's and prefer stuff today. Maybe it is best you don't be on a forum if you can't handle different points of view.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

jeffatron said:


> dude the fact he's 23 is exactly why they aree taking their time. jesus christ your obsessed. You sound like you want to stick your head in his trunks while furiously masturbating.
> 
> MJF will be world champ one day, Spears won't. That should be good enough for you, learn some patience and stop being such an obsessed mong. You literally repeat the same shit over and over again like you do in the Seth threads. it's kind of sad.


Mate.... trust me... do your mental health a favour and use the ignore function

It makes these threads a ton more fun


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

Beatles123 said:


> No. The reason I say that is because a lot of what they did wasn't even trying and all the angles were self serving and benefited no one. Hulk hogan throwing generic looking punches playing a generic-ass super hero cartoon character isn't entertaining by today's standard. especially with the purely idiotic booking he had. Same with Rock. Every time he was on the mic was pure cancerous to the career of anyone else other than himself, with crappy matches to boot.


Dude, it was the f'n 80's.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here, once again, the point stands... Even if it doesnt age well, in 1984, Hulk Hogan was one of the biggest stars in the world, period. 

You talk all this stuff about being a booker, and how you researchand know the business, learn this lesson quick:

If it draws... it's good, period. No point trying to make yourself sound like the smartest person in the room.



> Right, in 1984....the shittiest period in wrestling....where they had some of the worst storylines and characters known to man other than Piper, Andre and Savage. Where woman were treated like whores backstage by pimps, Black people were seen as African stereotypes or "SOUL BRUTHAS", and every foreigner was evil because "MUH COLD WAR N SHIT"...Yeah, no. Everything you thought was cool then was still trash and you were fools for buying into it in the first place. Thank god we've evolved or you would probably think Khali was a great wrestler today. BUT ITS OKAY BECAUSE WE HAD MR. T! :hogan fpalm


I have talked to you before about your condescending attitude towards the past and you're "This is better because I said so" rhetoric. But let's call it what it is.

if the booking stunk, and the characters were that bad, it wouldn't have drawn. 

You keep talking smack, and claiming how it was "the worst time period ever" yet, you have to acknowledge wrestling was in a boom period at that time.

As for the evoultion of wrestling, of course it did... it had to, but the workrate was never the draw, the only time that the work was the draw is when it seemd to be hemorrhaging more fans



> Maybe I am. I've not pretended I haven't ever been, but I've also been consistent on a lot of what I say, and I maintain that all wrestling REALLY needs is a solidly booked product with booking that actually helps make more stars than just one at a time and doesn't insult the audience.


Here is my problem with your statement, other than it being completely vague and voided of actual ideas.

There were solidly booked products that have drawn, that you are now shitting on.

Once again, the only barometer that is important in this business is eyes on the product... how many people can you put into a building on a consistent basis.

You say that, yet you are crapping on the very time frame that did that more consistently than any other time.



> As for all the stuff you mentioned, It probably doesn't interest you because you've also had to see watered down versions of those things for years. Thats why people enjoyed Cody/Dustin: They stopped playing with kiddy gloves and actually made a real bloodbath out of it. As long as AEW has a well balanced mix of styles, they'll keep staying fresh.


Don't tell me what i have and haven't seen.

I watch Jon moxley on the indies, I saw Punk, and Styles, and Joe, and the Briscoes, and Amazing Red, and Low Ki.

i watched Steve Corino on the indies, so don't just assume I don't know much about the stuff going on.

there is stuff in all companies that interest me for different reasons, and most of them revolve around character work, and being able to entertain in a match.



> If you saw Bryan, then you'll appreciate the fact that AEW is going to give us a company, knock on wood, that people like him NEEDED back in 2010 and still do today so that their careers hopefully aren't wasted by out of touch assholes.


What are you talking about? Bryan's Yes movement gimmick is some of the best stuff in his career. 

His Best in the world a-hole gimmick in RoH was good, but the yes stuff wa a lot more entertaining.



> Walking Dead and GOT aren't original. They're just well executed and don't talk down to fans (at least they didn't at first.) All AEW has to do is build a product that rewards investment the same way.


No, they were original. They took a concept (Zombies, and midieval fantasies) and put their own original spin on it.

We agree, if AEW does the same with wrestling, awesome, that will make people want to watch. 

But if all you are promising me is baseball stats (Jericho said this yeasterday) and great matches, then I don't see how it is going to be much better.



> I think you're tired for the wrong reasons. You just need a reason to care. I don't think Wrestling needs to go back and re-invent itself from scratch for that to happen. :shrug.


I think you don't need to tell me what I am tired of or not. 

I can give my opinion for myself, thanks.

Like I said, they just need to do something different or captivating, you ask why people hold on to Hogan, or Savage, or Rock, or Austin, and I am telling you why.

It seems as though you may not want to hear it



nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> If you've got a 23 year old Michael Jordan on your roster do you bench him to give a 38 year old "good hand" his 15 minutes of fame? The coach would be fired on the spot if he did that. *Tony has to step in and put a stop to the nepotism going on here.*


That money mark?

He is getting worked by Meltzer.... the boys are having a field day with him.

You notice how the Bucks have already thrown him under the bus to the fans 

"You guys don't like the library gimmick... ohhh that's Tony's idea, we don't knwo about that, but hey we keep talking to CM Punk, you still like him right?"

Khan is a puppet, that is obvious, he is a paycheck that sits in the corner when he is told to.

The EVP's are running the show, that much is obvious


----------



## headstar (May 16, 2012)

Beatles123 said:


> But all of those people were terrible people save rude, and not what wrestling needs today by a long shot. What you want is just stereotypical anti-small-guy talk.


Those "terrible people" were the ones drawing the ratings. Which is something today's vanilla midgets can't do. Casuals don't give a damn about technical/flippy crap.


NondescriptWWEfan said:


> but he draws a lot of people and if he went to aew a huge portion of fans would switch to watch him there.


Cena was the draw not Orton. Also Bliss and Orton "legends"?:lmao Those 2 couldn't draw if their life depended on it.

Besides, AEW is not getting WWE's fanbase regardless of who they sign. WWE marks are generally not open to other promotions. AEW has little to no crossover with WWE fans . So AEW is actually drawing from non-WWE pools of people.


RapShepard said:


> Well there is no intergender matches. Though some assholes folk may sell them having intergender matches since Nyla Rose is a transgendered woman.


Telling the truth makes someone an asshole? LOL! Technically, it's still a male like it or not. No amount of politically correct conditioning will change that objective genetic fact.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Soul Rex said:


> No, because..Size? AEW is full of midgets.
> 
> Old fans like wrestlers who look the apart.


You don't speak for everyone or "old fans".


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420 (Apr 22, 2013)

DMD Mofomagic said:


> That money mark?
> 
> He is getting worked by Meltzer.... the boys are having a field day with him.
> 
> ...


They're playing him like a fucking fiddle and no one wants to believe it. When Brandi put herself over that should have made it apparent to everyone who's really calling the shots.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

Death Rider said:


> So you are mad because he doesn't like Hogan but likes AEW? I have never got the hype with Hogan and never enjoyed his promos. Found them pretty dull. I disagree with him on The Rock but this post is just bizarre.
> 
> You know people are allowed to not be a fan of stuff in the 80's and prefer stuff today. Maybe it is best you don't be on a forum if you can't handle different points of view.


Far be it from me to talk on someone's behalf... but if Beatles had just said he didn't like Hogan, I would agree with you.

But the idea of saying people who liked Hogan or the 80's era of wrestling fools, just for being fans it crosses a line.

He also put these words in his "gem" of a post



> Where woman were treated like whores backstage by pimps, Black people were seen as African stereotypes or "SOUL BRUTHAS", and every foreigner was evil because "MUH COLD WAR N SHIT


First off... Elizabeth, Baby Doll, Woman, and Precious were never treated like whores by the pimps backstage (whatever that even means)

The Soul Brothas comment completely ignores teams like Doom, and wrestlers like Tony Atlas, and Ernie Ladd, and Bad News brown, who were all put in as legit tough guys

And the Cold War thing ignores guys like ivan and Nikita Koloff, and believing the Iron Sheik is somehow f'n Russian

If he doesn't like the 80's fine, but to be insulting and disrespectful shows he doesn't want dialogue, he wants to lecture everyone on why they should love AEW, and that is annoying



nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> They're playing him like a fucking fiddle and no one wants to believe it. When Brandi put herself over that should have made it apparent to everyone who's really calling the shots.


The reason they don't want to believe it is because they believe they can also be cool with the boys.

There was a story that I heard that sums up how the wrestling business is and how we marks forget our place.

The production for the Elite is done through DDPYoga's production, because DDP believes Dusty was a huge influence on him.

Well the guys down there are working 12-15 hours, unpaid because they love AEW.

After FFTF, there was an after party, these interns show up and get told at the door "Ummm, this is for the boys only"

Dude, wrestlers will use who they can when they can, why anyone believes Khan is any different is beyond me


----------



## Bryan Jericho (Sep 8, 2014)

Ive watched AEW events with older fans. And their reaction has been mixed at best.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

DMD Mofomagic said:


> Far be it from me to talk on someone's behalf... but if Beatles had just said he didn't like Hogan, I would agree with you.
> 
> But the idea of saying people who liked Hogan or the 80's era of wrestling fools, just for being fans it crosses a line.
> 
> ...


Now it was before I was born and tbh it ain't a time that appeals to me. The women being a whores was more of a 90's thing from the little I know but wasn't nearly every foreigner a heel? He has a point on the cold war thing. It worked for the time but the "he is bad because he is foreign shit" is something I am glad is gone for the most part.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

All of this because I don't like hogan or the business practices of the 80's? Wow. :taker Some of you miss the point.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Beatles123 said:


> All of this because I don't like hogan or the business practices of the 80's? Wow. :taker Some of you miss the point.


You might as well light a candle, draw a hot bath and have a glass of wine

As it seems like you have to read a book worth of comments


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> You might as well light a candle, draw a hot bath and have a glass of wine
> 
> As it seems like you have to read a book worth of comments


You'd think I ran over someone's dog. fpalm This isn't even the point of the topic.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

Death Rider said:


> Now it was before I was born and tbh it ain't a time that appeals to me. The women being a whores was more of a 90's thing from the little I know but wasn't nearly every foreigner a heel? He has a point on the cold war thing. It worked for the time but the "he is bad because he is foreign shit" is something I am glad is gone for the most part.


That's fine, I don't mind someone saying they don't enjoy something.

The foreigner thing though has evolved too, which is good.

Look how Bret Hart's "anti american" gimmick was handled in 1997.

He talked about the problems with the U.S. and from there the crowd hated him, but he was loved in Canada becuase they shared his sentiments.

It sucks in 2019, they seem to have gone backwards from that, Mahal's gimmick was a prime example of that



Beatles123 said:


> You'd think I ran over someone's dog. fpalm This isn't even the point of the topic.


Seriously? Then what is your point?

You are asking why fans of the 80's and 90's... like you said (Hogan, Rock, Austin etc.) if those fans would be able to enjoy AEW. You have fans of that era telling you why they would and wouldn't, and yet you still aren't making sense of it.

I don't mind having a discussion about this with you, like I said, I like ya... but you need to chill with your responses sometimes.

I am trying to understand your overall question


----------



## Greatsthegreats (Apr 15, 2015)

I really don't want to read this whole thread


AEWMoxley said:


> @;
> 
> Opinions online are irrelevant. It's such a small segment of the overall fanbase that you can easily ignore it.





AEWMoxley said:


> Yes, you can entirely ignore them. The amount of people who post about wrestling online are a minuscule percentage of the total number of people who attend and watch wrestling. I also think you're exaggerating a bit. The reaction, even online, has been mostly positive from all demographics. But more importantly, AEW has been commercially successful so far without even being on TV yet.


well Kevin Nash and WWE lied to you


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

DMD Mofomagic said:


> That's fine, I don't mind someone saying they don't enjoy something.
> 
> The foreigner thing though has evolved too, which is good.
> 
> ...


Then what was it you had an issue with in what I said? Because we seem to be in agreement. You want wrestling to evolve and so do i. If that "Boys" story you mentioned is true about AEW that should fuck off too.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

Beatles123 said:


> Then what was it you had an issue with in what I said? Because we seem to be in agreement. You want wrestling to evolve and so do i. If that "Boys" story you mentioned is true about AEW that should fuck off too.


Because you called people who enjoyed it fools.

Like I said in my long post... there is no reason to personally insult people because you don't like wrestling they watched when they were kids.

It wouldn't be fair to do that to you, so I think we can agree that you shouldn't do that to others.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

DMD Mofomagic said:


> Because you called people who enjoyed it fools.
> 
> Like I said in my long post... there is no reason to personally insult people because you don't like wrestling they watched when they were kids.
> 
> It wouldn't be fair to do that to you, so I think we can agree that you shouldn't do that to others.


I didn't mean it was your fault entirely. Just in hindsight. It hasn't aged well and the people only popped for it because the audience had never seen it. As you mentioned. However, most other stuff at least holds up and can be enjoyable today. Hogan/Rock archetypes are not what we need more of....but that STILL isn't the point, its just my opinion. The point is having a dialog about whether AEW can appeal to fans of that time period and overcome that stigma of "LOL ITS THAT T-SHIRT COMPANY!" - Thankfully many here seem to think it can, save the few odd "MIDGETS LOL" posts.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

Beatles123 said:


> I didn't mean it was your fault entirely. Just in hindsight. It hasn't aged well and the people only popped for it because the audience had never seen it. As you mentioned. However, most other stuff at least holds up and can be enjoyable today. Hogan/Rock archetypes are not what we need more of....but that STILL isn't the point, its just my opinion. The point is having a dialog about whether AEW can appeal to fans of that time period and overcome that stigma of "LOL ITS THAT T-SHIRT COMPANY!" - Thankfully many here seem to think it can, save the few odd "MIDGETS LOL" posts.


But that is the point I am making.

Most stuff in entertainment doesn't age well.

Look at some of the greatest movies of all time, they are great for their time, but they would suck if you put them out there today. We know more, we are older and more advanced, so it doesn't feel the same.

As for your second part... I think most of us are gone man. Like I would love if my kids enjoyed and embraced wrestling like I did, but they don't, so I am as casual a watcher as possible.

I like certain guys, but I feel like I have seen it all before. I LOVED the Ken/Ryu/Akuma set up that Omega and the Bucks did at Fyter Fest, but to get to that, and then such a long match was tiring for me.

i am talking in circles, so let me just give you how I feel:

I watched Double or Nothing, I was excited about it. I turned it off right before the tag title match because I was just burnt out.

There were so many spots, and so much stuff inside the ring, it all looked the same

Everyone wanted to get their shit in, and no one stood out. MJF did in a way, but honestly, I hated the end of that segment, because it made no sense.

Cody vs Dustin was great, but mainly because if was so different than everything else.

I like Omega, the Bucks, I like Cody, I kind of like Page... but I don't see anything too different than what I left 5 years ago.

If they bring in a big bad ass angle that I can sink my teeth into, I will be back in, that is what the nWo was, thats what Austin was... I hope they can.

From the outset right now, it looks like a regular ass wrestling show.. I am not going to commit to that, because I just don't love wrestling like I used to.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> I didn't mean it was your fault entirely. Just in hindsight. It hasn't aged well and the people only popped for it because the audience had never seen it. As you mentioned. However, most other stuff at least holds up and can be enjoyable today. *Hogan/Rock archetypes are not what we need more of*....but that STILL isn't the point, its just my opinion. The point is having a dialog about whether AEW can appeal to fans of that time period and overcome that stigma of "LOL ITS THAT T-SHIRT COMPANY!" - Thankfully many here seem to think it can, save the few odd "MIDGETS LOL" posts.


Why doesn't the business need more of those type of characters. What's so wrong with these very successful wrestlers that you think it has no place in today's wrestling?


----------



## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

Wow never thought Beatles would get moroned before some of the more gimmicky posters.


----------



## Mugging of Cena (Jul 29, 2014)

I'm in my mid 30's and I'm looking forward to AEW and have watched all their events thusfar. While I enjoyed those events, I wasn't really blown away by them but I just need something different from WWE at this point and since Lucha Underground is likely dead and I no longer have the channel ROH is on, AEW will probably be it for me. Plus I'm a big Mox fan so him alone is enough to keep me interested for now while I learn more about some of the other guys and gals.


----------



## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

RapShepard said:


> Why doesn't the business need more of those type of characters. What's so wrong with these very successful wrestlers that you think it has no place in today's wrestling?


That was a very strange statement by him. Guys like The Rock and Austin are exactly what the industry needs more of today, and what they've been lacking for so long now.


----------



## Bosnian21 (May 27, 2019)

validreasoning said:


> Scott Steiner never drew any money so not sure why he is being talked about in same vein as rock, Hogan and Austin.
> 
> Sting drew big on one show which had a year long build opposite biggest star at time Hogan. He never drew big previous to that or after.
> 
> ...


This is my age range right here and you are right. So many people my age, myself included stopped watching WWE in the early 2010s. Since WWE was a PG product during the time we grew up in, I believe most if that generation simply outgrew the product. Add to that the lack of new real stars created since that time and and you can see why my generation quit watching wrestling. Of course, there could be others who watched from 08-10 that disagree with me but I think my statements are generally correct. 

This is why I think AEW has a good chance of capturing the lapsed fans from the late 2000s. They have Jericho who is recognizable star (he won multiple world titles during that 08-10 range I believe, was a favorite of many). New stars like Omega, Moxley, Cody, MJF who look the part and are charismatic. Exciting tag team wrestling (could become AEW’s version of WCW’s cruiser weights). Apparently TV 14 v


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

AEWMoxley said:


> That was a very strange statement by him. Guys like The Rock and Austin are exactly what the industry needs more of today, and what they've been lacking for so long now.


Yeah I was actually interested in hearing why he thinks those type of guys have no place today. I get evolution, but those type seem weird to write off.


----------



## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

Charisma and mic skills draw in every generation, if the talent is booked correctly.

It's bizarre how some fans online ignore this. It's fine if you prefer talent that can do flips, but you have to be realistic about it. That will never draw. I've got no issue if a company wants to utilize flippy guys in the midcard, as there's definitely a fanbase for that sort of thing. But that fanbase is nowhere near big enough to justify a main event spot. You need guys who are charismatic and who can talk in the main event.


----------



## raymond1985 (Apr 30, 2019)

The Rock and Hogan were both fantastic in-ring performers. There is more to wrestling than flips, spots and Meltzer's star ratings. Give me a Hogan match where he worked the crowd and sold over a Will Ospreay spot-fest.

I don't get why AEW fans get so defensive. Are AEW's fanbase a bit geeky? Well yes, just look at the sort of fans that attend their events. Most of them live up to a certain stereotype. Which is fine. 

Are there enough of these fans for AEW to thrive? It's hard to say. I think AEW needs find someone that appeals to young adults, but I am not sure who that might be.


----------



## kingnoth1n (Nov 21, 2016)

raymond1985 said:


> The Rock and Hogan were both fantastic in-ring performers. There is more to wrestling than flips, spots and Meltzer's star ratings. Give me a Hogan match where he worked the crowd and sold over a Will Ospreay spot-fest.


For sure man, crowd reaction is the primary key to any match to be honest, not super floppy shit or risky spots, and that is one of the hottest matches I've ever seen for crowd reaction with no risk. Says great things about the in-ring psych of the two involved.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

raymond1985 said:


> The Rock and Hogan were both fantastic in-ring performers. There is more to wrestling than flips, spots and Meltzer's star ratings. Give me a Hogan match where he worked the crowd and sold over a Will Ospreay spot-fest.


But what about a Will match where he worked the crowd and sold?

.... it happens quite a bit actually


----------



## raymond1985 (Apr 30, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> But what about a Will match where he worked the crowd and sold?
> 
> .... it happens quite a bit actually


Meh, he's still nothing special.



kingnoth1n said:


> For sure man, crowd reaction is the primary key to any match to be honest, not super floppy shit or risky spots, and that is one of the hottest matches I've ever seen for crowd reaction with no risk. Says great things about the in-ring psych of the two involved.


The best match AEW has produced to date featured an old-school pro in Dustin Rhodes. And the fastest rising star in the company is MJF - not for his ring work, but for his character.

Lessons needs to be learnt.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

@raymond1985

Out of complete interest, what is your opinion about Okada?


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

WINNING said:


> You don't speak for everyone or "old fans".


I really do, I am talking about this ENEMORMEOUS portion of fans that used to watch WWE back in the 80s, 90s and mid 10s, most of those fans are not posting on this page, because they don't give a shit about wrestling anymore.

But they would completely agree with me. I am speaking for the majority for sure, old wrestling fans don't like midget and undersized wrestlers with shitty looks, AEW is full of that, sadly.


----------



## Blisstory (Apr 22, 2019)

MOX said:


> *Literally nobody is saying this.*
> 
> As for the OP, the EVPs and Khan have repeatedly said they are trying to provide a little something for everyone. On the same card they'll have 20-something hunks doing flips for the teens to have crushes on and seasoned veterans putting on ring psychology clinics.
> 
> Whether that approach will work remains to be seen. I hope so, and I definitely like the idea of a broad range of styles and characters. I might not enjoy every segment, but I'll stay tuned in because maybe the next segment will be more my cup of tea.


yes literally tons of people have said it on multiple platforms. Its one reason why AEW got so much heat before they ever did anything of relevance. The "hardcore AEW fan" almost ruined it before it started.


----------



## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

Bryan Jericho said:


> Ive watched AEW events with older fans. And their reaction has been mixed at best.


For starters (and not directed at you), the thread title asks us whether this promotion can be successful with older fans.

And a lot of the responses seem to be “you can’t speak for older fans.” I agree that no one can speak for any group of people about anything, but it’s kind of a dead-end topic if no one is allowed to opine whether the promotion can get over with this specific group.

I’m an older fan, in my 50s, grew up on NWA first and later got into WWE. I am a WWE fan. I am also an ROH fan. I probably go to 3-6 or so indie shows a year (including ROH), on average, and have often traveled 7-12 hours round-trip to do so. And generally see WWE live at least a couple of times a year in some form (NXT/house show/Raw/SD/PPV/whatever), sometimes even 4 or 5.

So I’d say I’m an older wrestling fan.

I’ve seen the Bucks and Cody and Omega and some of the others on AEW in person and they can be fun, but IMO if it leans more to the Bucks’ style of crazy/silly antics/matches and less to the Cody/Omega side it’s going to be hard for them to get over with the older fans. Not just because it’s different, but because the YB’s whole schtick is that they’re kind of a caricature of indie wresting ... it’s not for everybody, and it’s like an in-joke you don’t get if you’re not into the indie scene. I don’t see an endless series of Superkick Parties going over on mainstream TV. To me it’s OK in small doses, but when I go to an indie show that is all flippy little boys doing flippy little things it gets tiresome.

For instance, I saw Austin Aries once no-sell like six consecutive brainbusters. Then he did the same thing to the other guy (Japanese wrestler, honestly don’t remember which one). And of course he no-sold it. It was just a stupid spot (to me) that took me completely out of what had been a very good storytelling match.

They’re going to have to find their sweet spot. It scares me that Tony says they want to have a little something for everyone, because to me that also sounds like trying to be all things to all people ... you can’t really forge an identity if you are all over the place. I’d rather they figure out what they are and stick with that.

I don’t think there are enough indie-style fans spread around the country to fill arenas on a weekly basis. Sure you can draw a decent crowd in Philly or Chicago or whatnot, but not 40-50 weeks a year with some big PPV shows mixed in. And I really don’t think there are enough to draw consistent ratings on TV if they make it an ‘indie insider’ kind of show.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Saintpat said:


> For starters (and not directed at you), the thread title asks us whether this promotion can be successful with older fans.
> 
> And a lot of the responses seem to be “you can’t speak for older fans.” I agree that no one can speak for any group of people about anything, but it’s kind of a dead-end topic if no one is allowed to opine whether the promotion can get over with this specific group.
> 
> ...


Hopefully it's more about match style wise and less content wise. From the unsanctioned match, to the throwback style matches with Cody, and the other matches that match today's uptempo high octane speed they've shown a variety of stuff. Hopefully it's that and not about drastic tone shifts.


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Saintpat said:


> I’ve seen the Bucks and Cody and Omega and some of the others on AEW in person and they can be fun, but IMO if it leans more to the Bucks’ style of crazy/silly antics/matches and less to the Cody/Omega side it’s going to be hard for them to get over with the older fans.


Cody and Omega definitely know how to tell a story, and I've seen matches in Japan, for example the Bucks vs. Kenny and Ibushi that showed me that they know how to tell a good story in the ring too.

I do have an issue with their flippancy in interviews outside the ring, but they're not just flippy dudes with no psychology.


----------



## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

Chael Sonnen brilliantly outlines the problem with wrestling, and in particular WWE, over the last few years.






AEW does have their share of flippy guys, but hopefully they continue to keep it out of the main event scene, as they've done so far.


----------



## Freelancer (Aug 24, 2010)

I'm not sure if AEW will be successful or not yet. The fact that they're on a major network and have massive hype building them up definitely helps.  I'm 36, so that classifies me as older. I fall asleep with RAW and Smackdown, but every AEW show keeps me interested from start to finish. Also, it makes sense that older fans with kids will watch AEW with their kids, getting them interested. Cause lets face it, the kids don't drive themselves to the arena and pay the money for the merchandise.


----------



## cm-drunk (Sep 4, 2018)

I am 37 years old , grew up on wwf wcw nwa etc... What made wrestling great thru the 2000's were the larger than life physiques and personalities of the wrestlers. They looked no nonsense tough and took their characters seriously, helping that elusive suspense of disbeleif. This is the brand of wrestling that casual older fans will resonate with.

That said, I don't see that at all with aew(although I was initially very hopeful). When I watch their shows, I'll see one or two good matches, and maybe 3-4 people that I can take seriously as wresters. The rest of the shows honestly suck. Whether its over the hill hasbeens like cima vs daniels, sub wwe cringe level comedy with the librarians or that stupid battle royal or the stupid baby oil guy, the shows are a joke save a few bright spots.

The Good:

-Jericho is great as always, but only has a couple years left.

- Cody is a solid upper midcarder as always. If he can come up with a way to look less generic I would buy him as main event... he has the skills but presentation is too bland at this point, although I knkow he can do better and probably will.

-MJF nuff said... this guy is a throwback and older casuals will probably resonate with him the most I would think. reminds me of a dare i say more talented paul e dangerously.

-Hangman comes across as legit and definately has all the tools to be huge with that audience. needs to to establish a more defined character and get it across on the mic though...

- Jungle boy and luchasaurus beleive it or not... its a corny gimmick but they present it well , both are good workers. They can be a top team for sure but i dont see any good heel teams for them to work with.

- Pretty good video packages and I like their booking. production is aiming high but needs some work. they will get there. They can put together a good show from a technical standpoint, but they are having trouble with the content of the show if they want to draw back those lapsed fans.

The Bad

-horrible sub wwe comedy. please gtfo. all it takes is one look at that for a new viewer to brand the company as bs right out of the gate and never watch again. No more baby oil, librarians, 120 lb rag dolls being presented as wrestlers and those bullshit elaborate spots that require explicit cooperation from your opponents.. It makes the product look like a fucking joke. it makes the viewer feel like a joke when watching it.

-I was highly disappointed despite massive hype around the bucks. The bucks look like undersized dorky teenagers and they seem to not know how to work a real match. way too many highspots to feel any suspense during the match because you hit all these huge moves and your opponents keep getting up. The stuff loses its impact and looks fake. no suspension of disbeleif at all. If they change their style of wrestling you can maybe get a decent face run out of them as underdogs but they are far from the hype. If these guys are the top of your tag division thats scary.

-Omega. World class worker, saw and loved all his wrestlekingdom matches and was excited initially to see how that could translate to an american product. Ouch. Presentation sucks, acts like a dork, talks like a dork. just ouch. I earlier said his big test would be whether he can sharpen his character and mic work to cater to an american audience(namely speak and behave as a baddass) and I think we see the results. massive fail there. Damn shame because his in ring is stellar but his character work doesnt allow me to take him seriously as a fighter. It seems like this is all a joke to him. well dont worry kenny we take you just about as seriously as you take kayfabe. huge disapointment there, get to the midcard and figure it out before you get anywhere near a main event.

-Lack of size. This is one of the biggest problems of them all. case in point is darby allin. great skill set and good character work... but the guy is 140 lbs. As much as I like the guy he's never going to reach his potential because alot of people won't be able to take him seriously. I can say that for the whole roster at this point save any previous mentions... but not only are they undersized they are also either green, or just average as workers. The main problem beyond the obvious here is that you will run out of top matches and fueds quickly because if any of your good would be drawing wrestlers ever take any significant offense and sell for any of these guys its going to make them and the product look like shit. this is the biggest problem they have at this point, lack of viable talent.

lots of work to be done to get those older fans because with what we have now its nothing more than a fantasy. the biggest take away here should be that most of what indy fans think is cool and different, we (older fans) see as turbo channel changing stuff, never to return. I don't see them getting their shit together in time for october, and if they want to grow they need to come out hot and make sure they keep someone watching for the first time rather than wanting to change the channel. it is imperitive to their success. Seems like they have horribly miscalculated what the lasped fans actually want to see.


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## Swan-San (May 25, 2019)

Nah, they don't have the roster for it. 

Khan maybe too much of a fan if anything, he seems to be a fan of everything wrestling, even the shit indy style.


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## NXTSUPERFAN (Oct 19, 2018)

I’m a older fan and want a darker grittier product with a high production value. I love realism in my wrestling, I want to suspend disbelief and actually care who actually wins a match. Now I have seen this done with small guys vs big guys. Out of shape guys against athletes. Basically every combination out there. As long as I do not feel like the match is pointless I will watch.


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

I personally believe it all boils down to story and character development. That's all it takes to capture audiences of all ages. Tell a good story.. focus on the development of the characters and their feuds all month and then have a great match at a PPV to conclude or further it.


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## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

zkorejo said:


> I personally believe it all boils down to story and character development. That's all it takes to capture audiences of all ages. Tell a good story.. focus on the development of the characters and their feuds all month and then have a great match at a PPV to conclude or further it.


True. But the stories need to be simple and easily relatable, and the characters need to be over the top, and that part is up to the workers themselves to make their characters stand out and draw attention to themselves. And they have to be good story tellers in the ring, which neither requires nor precludes work rate (aka ‘flippy shit’) guys. MJF has all the potential in the world to pull this off, and I think Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus can have a chance to do the same if they’re put in the right position. I’d even put Darby Allen up there, just for starters.


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## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

I don't see why not. As long as they can let go of the past and see AEW for what it is on it's own then sure.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Are we talking in terms of age or experience? Fans who love classic wrestling like things that are logical and don't insult their intelligence. There is just too much shit in AEW to bring lapsed fans back. Wrestlers live in a bubble and they think shit like The Librarians is funny when they do it. That's an instant turn-off. Wrestling fans seem to take the position that a little bit of shit is fine, because there is good stuff elsewhere, but you're going to find that people who don't care that much about wrestling, or fans that feel so fucking betrayed by how insulting that is, are just not going to subject themselves to it or spend two hours a week wading through to find something watchable. 

Cody/Dustin, Cody/Spears, MJF, Jericho -- the stuff that works, works. Fans of sensible wrestling that are peaking their heads in don't have an issue with that. I really wish they would take the frivolity, bin it, and instead bring in some guys that can do this straight-faced and create a show that has got an authentic feel top-to-bottom. A wrestling show that isn't self-conscious about being a wrestling show. MLW does that _really_ well, they just don't have the budget and the scope. But their fanbase is getting stronger and stronger because it's got those qualities. I think AEW is going to get a shot when they manage to attract a lot of eyeballs, but the feedback is a lot more...critical than they expect. The thing is, you can already tell what plays to bigger arenas and larger audiences, even when that is filled with obsessed fans. They should be able to predict what casuals are going to think, but I genuinely think their egos are a bit too involved to look at things from that perspective. And they're going to get a shock when they are exposed to a much wider audience but retain only a select few because the people who already like this shit already like it.


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## yeahbaby! (Jan 27, 2014)

The Wood said:


> Are we talking in terms of age or experience? Fans who love classic wrestling like things that are logical and don't insult their intelligence. There is just too much shit in AEW to bring lapsed fans back. Wrestlers live in a bubble and they think shit like The Librarians is funny when they do it. That's an instant turn-off. Wrestling fans seem to take the position that a little bit of shit is fine, because there is good stuff elsewhere, but you're going to find that people who don't care that much about wrestling, or fans that feel so fucking betrayed by how insulting that is, are just not going to subject themselves to it or spend two hours a week wading through to find something watchable.
> 
> Cody/Dustin, Cody/Spears, MJF, Jericho -- the stuff that works, works. Fans of sensible wrestling that are peaking their heads in don't have an issue with that. I really wish they would take the frivolity, bin it, and instead bring in some guys that can do this straight-faced and create a show that has got an authentic feel top-to-bottom. A wrestling show that isn't self-conscious about being a wrestling show. MLW does that _really_ well, they just don't have the budget and the scope. But their fanbase is getting stronger and stronger because it's got those qualities. I think AEW is going to get a shot when they manage to attract a lot of eyeballs, but the feedback is a lot more...critical than they expect. The thing is, you can already tell what plays to bigger arenas and larger audiences, even when that is filled with obsessed fans. They should be able to predict what casuals are going to think, but I genuinely think their egos are a bit too involved to look at things from that perspective. And they're going to get a shock when they are exposed to a much wider audience but retain only a select few because the people who already like this shit already like it.


I agree with your general stance on AEW. I see a lot of good with the likes of the guys you mentioned and the Lucha Bros for example, but I pretty much can't stand the Bucks and their buffoonery. 

Overall what's been disappointing to me is it looks and feels far too much like WWE. With the sub par announcing it sounds like it too. I was looking for something a bit closer to a NJPW, something that generally took itself more seriously. I hope it ends up leaning that way.

Regarding the OP I don't know where this older fan thing is coming from, it sounds like it's a bit of a strawman.


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## Jeripunk99 (Oct 16, 2017)

Im 48 years old, been watching wrestling since I was 5 and Im excited as fuck about it


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## Jonhern (Oct 19, 2017)

Beatles123 said:


> Let us try looking beyond this subsection. What is the general consensus you're seeing and hearing about AEW right now?
> 
> For me? I'm noticing a lot of the older fans hating on it pretty hard in places like /ASP/ especially, and it doesn't look to be ironic.There seems to be this oldschool "No big guys = No Stars = No buys" mentality. Then there are the "WRESTLING IS DEAD" crowd who claim there is no point in watching another fed because wrestling is an outdated concept.
> 
> ...


Key question is how old is "older". If its above 50 they shouldn't really care when it comes to tv, the demo is what dictates the success of a tv show and advertisers don't care as much about targeting them because they are easy to reach. The younger fans is where they will make money and have success, the 18-49 range. And from the look of the crowd I saw at DON they are going to do just fine with those people. I was even seated next to some "casual" fans that decided to go to the show, I was laughing as one of them was wrongly describing the career of Omega.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Jonhern said:


> Key question is how old is "older". If its above 50 they shouldn't really care when it comes to tv, the demo is what dictates the success of a tv show and advertisers don't care as much about targeting them because they are easy to reach. The younger fans is where they will make money and have success, the 18-49 range. And from the look of the crowd I saw at DON they are going to do just fine with those people. I was even seated next to some "casual" fans that decided to go to the show, I was laughing as one of them was wrongly describing the career of Omega.





yeahbaby! said:


> Regarding the OP I don't know where this older fan thing is coming from, it sounds like it's a bit of a strawman.


Basically I wanted to see if older fans in both age and era preference were racting more positively or negatively toward the product, If they like it overall or if they remain disillusioned with the current state wrestling as a whole. So far I think based on what i've seen, most here are open to AEW with a few reservations, such as yourselves. That's understandable and I feel answers the question nicely.


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## llj (Feb 22, 2018)

yeahbaby! said:


> I agree with your general stance on AEW. I see a lot of good with the likes of the guys you mentioned and the Lucha Bros for example, but I pretty much can't stand the Bucks and their buffoonery.
> 
> Overall what's been disappointing to me is it looks and feels far too much like WWE. With the sub par announcing it sounds like it too. I was looking for something a bit closer to a NJPW, something that generally took itself more seriously. I hope it ends up leaning that way.
> 
> Regarding the OP I don't know where this older fan thing is coming from, it sounds like it's a bit of a strawman.


I agree. Too many wrestlers still drag the "sports entertainment" moniker of the industry with them, instead of trying to go for something different.

Having a North American version of NJPW may not attract the same type of fans, but has the potential to create an entirely new one. NJPW treats their product like a sport, and asks their audience to play along as if it were real. Everyone in the world knows its scripted now, and companies like the WWE, ROH and Impact have all but abandoned any semblance of believability, but it doesn't mean you have to do that just because the cat is long out of the bag. Not NJPW. They don't create silly surreal angles, and nonsensical motivations. They couch their storylines within the spectrum of it being a sport, and treat character development like how ESPN fleshes out the personalities of athletes in professional sports like LeBron, Brady, etc,. They have tournaments and their personalities go through slumps and highs, just like any pro sport.


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## CRCC (Sep 25, 2017)

Yes, absolutely. These guys have shown to have a good mind for the business and have already attracted a mature audience.

I'm more concerned about their ability to avoid some recurring "indy vices" they've been promoting on their shows that can hurt the product once you expand it to a wider audience.


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## EMGESP (Apr 3, 2016)

Beatles123 said:


> See, you'd think so. That's why I don't understand a lot of this feedback from the older crowd outside of WF. Its the same "LOL GEEKS" mentality from the people who also shit on WWE RAW every week. I'm wondering what the true sample size of the people that like the product is as of now, if those are just a vocal minority or cause for concern.


Some guys on a forum ain't gonna tell you much about the potential success of a product.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The average age of this forum might be too high to debate this topic anyway.

They are attracting 18 - 35

I’m guessing this forum is 28 - 55

Only time will tell


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## Arktik (Mar 21, 2007)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The average age of this forum might be too high to debate this topic anyway.
> 
> They are attracting 18 - 35
> 
> ...


If they are only attracting 18-35 then the TV ratings are going to be shit because younger people are more likely to be cable cutters.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

llj said:


> I agree. Too many wrestlers still drag the "sports entertainment" moniker of the industry with them, instead of trying to go for something different.
> 
> Having a North American version of NJPW may not attract the same type of fans, but has the potential to create an entirely new one. NJPW treats their product like a sport, and asks their audience to play along as if it were real. Everyone in the world knows its scripted now, and companies like the WWE, ROH and Impact have all but abandoned any semblance of believability, but it doesn't mean you have to do that just because the cat is long out of the bag. Not NJPW. They don't create silly surreal angles, and nonsensical motivations. They couch their storylines within the spectrum of it being a sport, and treat character development like how ESPN fleshes out the personalities of athletes in professional sports like LeBron, Brady, etc,. They have tournaments and their personalities go through slumps and highs, just like any pro sport.


Even New Japan could use an injection of real fight psychology. I was watching Ibushi vs. Ospreay earlier this year, and I just had to skip through when Ibushi went for a moonsault for no good reason and got kicked in the face. Why would you do that? Even the guys that are generally regarded as "brilliant" today don't structure their matches in a way where everything has a strategic purpose. That would be too hard and artful, right?

Except for Tanahashi and Okada. There's a reason those guys are at the top there. Tanahashi, in particular, is fucking tremendous. Holy shit, wow. Where has that guy been all my life?



yeahbaby! said:


> I agree with your general stance on AEW. I see a lot of good with the likes of the guys you mentioned and the Lucha Bros for example, but I pretty much can't stand the Bucks and their buffoonery.
> 
> Overall what's been disappointing to me is it looks and feels far too much like WWE. With the sub par announcing it sounds like it too. I was looking for something a bit closer to a NJPW, something that generally took itself more seriously. I hope it ends up leaning that way.
> 
> Regarding the OP I don't know where this older fan thing is coming from, it sounds like it's a bit of a strawman.


I watched a Wrestle Kingdom (I think it was 12), and one of the Bucks -- I think it was Matt -- was selling his leg coming off an injury. Good, in theory. Except when he went for a springboard and "collapsed" under the pressure, the audience _laughed_. The polite Japanese audience _laughed_ at your babyfaces. They're the class clowns now trying to read their poetry. I appreciate the effort they do sometimes put in when they are trying to actually work, but they're not very good at it. You shouldn't get _laughs_ when you are going for sympathy. That's the difference between a really great worker and those guys -- a great worker brings people with them. 

That being said, I think when The Revival jump and beat them to bloody pulps, it will probably be highly enjoyable and the best thing they've ever done. But man, these guys need to dial it back and think about what is going to really draw people in, as opposed to being rodeo clowns.


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## Sephiroth766 (Mar 25, 2015)

I know we won't get BTE in AEW but if you watched BTE then you should know the type of comedy and segments on this show would be closer to that. It will be tough in my opinion, many lapsed fans are attitude era marks (I'm not one of them) and those I've seen and heard will hate the style of wrestling that AEW provides so who knows if they'll even check it out or stick to it if they give it a try. I will watch it because it's more wrestling with guys I like and in a larger scale, but I don't know if lapsed fans will be fans of it.


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## Jonhern (Oct 19, 2017)

Arktik said:


> If they are only attracting 18-35 then the TV ratings are going to be shit because younger people are more likely to be cable cutters.


That won't really effect the ratings as much as people think. One it's based on Nielson families, and second they use people meters now to catch all modes of viewing, so if they are watching they will be counted regardless how they watch. The meters pick up a hidden audio signal in the program, so don't matter if it's on cable or ps Vue, YouTube TV or an illegal stream (as long as it's an American stream) if that 18-35 viewer is watching it live they will be counted. The bigger problem is if that 18-35 person is time shifting, since ratings still are heavily based on live views. 

Also DON did really well for a ppv with no weekly tv to push it, pretty much just social media. If you look back at what wwe was doing before the network it as about 1 ppv conversion per 10 viewers of the weekly show. If you use that to extrapolate AEW audience then they could get around 1million viewers, half that conversion rate 500k. A 500k-1 million overall that heavily skews 18-49 would make them a big hit on cable . Just look at the ratings for shows like South Park and it's always Sunny, not huge audience but heavily skews to the demo and very successful shows.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Jonhern said:


> That won't really effect the ratings as much as people think. One it's based on Nielson families, and second they use people meters now to catch all modes of viewing, so if they are watching they will be counted regardless how they watch. The meters pick up a hidden audio signal in the program, so don't matter if it's on cable or ps Vue, YouTube TV or an illegal stream (as long as it's an American stream) if that 18-35 viewer is watching it live they will be counted. The bigger problem is if that 18-35 person is time shifting, since ratings still are heavily based on live views.
> 
> 
> 
> .


The People meter thing doesn't really make much sense. How likely would you be to cut cable but also be a Nielson family member to have a people meter?


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## Ham and Egger (Dec 13, 2005)

I dont think it matters if they try to catch the interest of older fans. They are currently in the process of capturing a new audience altogether. Them signing all these young guys will help in doing that. Most wrestling fans memories are of them watching it as a child and being captivated by these personalities and AEW will be trying to do the same. That's how you make fans for life.


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## Jonhern (Oct 19, 2017)

RapShepard said:


> The People meter thing doesn't really make much sense. How likely would you be to cut cable but also be a Nielson family member to have a people meter?


They have people with no cable and just ota. Probably have people with just streaming too. They try to get a wide cross section in their sample and it fully turns over every 2 years, so it's not the same people all the time. I know someone who did it, they don't even ask how you watch TV when they first pick households,that would bias the sample since that is the whole point of the survey, how do people consume media. All they ask is demographic info because they need a diverse set of people to make the sample match the demographics of the area.

The people meters basically replaced the sweeps they used to have when they got more households who would do paper journal, now it's done automatically with how they work. I actually did that once when I was younger and I can say it was a lot of work, I was the only one one who actually took it seriously in my family lol. Probably why we only got chosen to do it for one sweeps period. You had to write down what you were watching, if you changed channels for 15 mins or more you had to note that too. Even had to keep track of dvd or video game use, they wanted to know whenever the tv was in use what you were doing on it. They only release the basic ratings each week publicly. thier customers get a ton more information about what is going on than the public numbers tell you.


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## Ironman Match (Sep 28, 2014)

i don't know if i qualify as an older fans, since i started following wwe in 2004-2005. 


Now, (dorry if this will seems more like a rambling post) my ideal tv show is similar to Smackdown around 2002-2005. I'm a ruthless aggression guy. Big hoss and genetic freaks battling in the ring (show, lesnar, undertaker) mixed with impressive technical wreslers (angle, benoit), agile and smart cruisers (eddie, rey) and everything in between. I do NOT want rigid weight classes, but when two style are clashing, wreslers should fight according to their style and strenght. An heavyweight CAN do a 360 spinning backflip kick, but it must be used only as a surpise move to change the momentum of the match, not as a go-to move to receive a cheap pop.
And i want blood and violence. LOTS of blood and violence... but only when it's necessary (like, i don't expected blood in a straight technical bout, but if you sell me a barbed wire steel cage, it MUST end in a bloodbath).

also, i followed the first 3 seasons of Lucha undergound. I liked their in ring style, but ONLY because they set themselves in a "fantasy world", so the flippy style was perfectly in-line with the story they were telling.I do NOT want that s... in my "realistic" tv show (even if i unironically liked their gimmicks... THOSE i can accept no problem, like luchasaurus)

But the real question is... does LU characters and ruthless aggression-era products still works nowadays for younger fans?


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Jonhern said:


> They have people with no cable and just ota. Probably have people with just streaming too. They try to get a wide cross section in their sample and it fully turns over every 2 years, so it's not the same people all the time. I know someone who did it, they don't even ask how you watch TV when they first pick households,that would bias the sample since that is the whole point of the survey, how do people consume media. All they ask is demographic info because they need a diverse set of people to make the sample match the demographics of the area.
> 
> The people meters basically replaced the sweeps they used to have when they got more households who would do paper journal, now it's done automatically with how they work. I actually did that once when I was younger and I can say it was a lot of work, I was the only one one who actually took it seriously in my family lol. Probably why we only got chosen to do it for one sweeps period. You had to write down what you were watching, if you changed channels for 15 mins or more you had to note that too. Even had to keep track of dvd or video game use, they wanted to know whenever the tv was in use what you were doing on it. They only release the basic ratings each week publicly. thier customers get a ton more information about what is going on than the public numbers tell you.


That's interesting on the meters. I did a diary last year. I was just surprised they sent a $20 with it lol.


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