# Reports of an Explosion at Manchester Arena.



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

http://news.sky.com/story/reports-of-explosion-at-manchester-arena-10889460



> Police in Manchester have urged people to stay away from Manchester Arena following reports of an explosion during a concert.
> 
> Witnesses reported hearing a "huge bang" at the venue during an Ariana Grande gig.
> 
> ...


So this literally happened within an hour ago. Nobody really knows how serious it is or what is going on. Going to try and keep updated on this story.


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

I have a lot of friends in Manchester, seen a couple of videos from in the Arena with half the people screaming and running and the other half standing around going "it's just the fucking balloons." Armed police on scene and the area's closed off. Reports of people receiving "medical attention" may not be as serious as it sounds right now (thankfully) as my friends on-scene said none they've seen have had injuries and it's people being checked for shock etc. A few reports it could be a blown speaker, but we'll have to wait for more info I guess. I sincerely hope it's not an attack of any kind, I have a lot of friends in an around the city.


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## razzathereaver (Apr 2, 2012)

Police have just confirmed fatalities.


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Shit..police confirmed fatalities at the scene. Still no info on cause.


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## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

My niece was at the concert and thankfully I have just spoke to her and she is o.k. she said it was utter horrendous, Bodies everywhere and numerous injuries. She said the explosions were massive. Terrible this is

Helicopters are out. Armed police everywhere and hundreds of police vehicles, Ambulances and fire engines in the area. My niece who is in Manchester told me this 5 minutes ago so this is not false rumours. Fucking disgraceful


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## Lady Eastwood (Jul 10, 2006)

Guess they weren't Grande fans.

On a serious note, wow, this world is just fucking pathetic, smh.


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## MillionDollarProns (Feb 10, 2011)

I feel terrible for the people who died, going to concerts is my favorite thing to do and I wanted to see Ariana myself someday.

I'm glad to hear she's okay.


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## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

*wow that sucks. Absolutely tragic. Damn.*


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## embarassed fan (Sep 26, 2016)

*first page post! *


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## Slickback (Jun 17, 2015)

Been a really shit day of news today so far, just senseless and horrible and yet again...


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

You know what, I don't even give a fuck if they ban me for saying this. If you wanna make jokes whilst people are lying dead and others injured you're a bunch of pathetic cunts and should kindly go fuck yourself. Fuckin get some class, dickheads.


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## Slickback (Jun 17, 2015)

Some images of whats going on right now, pandemonium.


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## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

*Can we not make jokes please*


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

RavishingRickRules said:


> You know what, I don't even give a fuck if they ban me for saying this. If you wanna make jokes whilst people are lying dead and others injured you're a bunch of pathetic cunts and should kindly go fuck yourself. Fuckin get some class, dickheads.


This forum has developed shit as fuck culture and it's recent. Three straight threads of this nonsense of laughing/mocking deaths.

I get that some people use humor to make sense of a terrible situation, but that's a different kind of humor. Some people think they have that ability when they really fucking don't.


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## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

A Family member of mine has witnessed with her own eyes people blown to bits and dead on the floor and utter fucking nob heads think it is appropriate to be cracking shitty jokes. Pathetic fucking losers


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## razzathereaver (Apr 2, 2012)

Multiple reports saying at least 20 people dead:
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/866796952389857281
https://twitter.com/pzf/status/866797710636191744


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## Slickback (Jun 17, 2015)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/866792307907055617


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## Meeki (Apr 4, 2016)

JDP2016 said:


> I guess it's inappropriate to say Ariana Grande's music is the bomb?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





embarassed fan said:


> :lmao :lmao :lmao


Disgusting post. I don't care if I get banned, you are a sick cunt. Go fuck yourself.


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## Oda Nobunaga (Jun 12, 2006)

RavishingRickRules said:


> You know what, I don't even give a fuck if they ban me for saying this. If you wanna make jokes whilst people are lying dead and others injured you're a bunch of pathetic cunts and should kindly go fuck yourself. Fuckin get some class, dickheads.


Nah. You've let it out now and it would seem most people would agree with you. Letting it slide this time if only because you don't have much of a record.


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## HOJO (Feb 25, 2012)

I rate the joke tbh


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Sounds utterly horrific, @Rowdy Yates. So sorry that your niece had to witness such mayhem. Relieved to hear she is all right.

Some reports which are tentative suggest the possibility of the usage of a nail bomb or nail bombs.


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## Slickback (Jun 17, 2015)

> Just out of The Ariana Grande Concert in Manchester,I thought we would leave seconds before the last song finished in order too get home quicker instead of waiting longer for a taxi,As we where leaving a bomb or explosion went off centimetres infront of me.
> Peoples skin/blood&Feces where everywhere including in my hair & on my bag,I'm still finding bits of god knows what in my hair.I am fine & back in my hotel I hope everyone involved and in front of me is okay.We are being told it was a balloon/sound system but I can assure you it was not,You never ever expect these things too happen too you but this proves it can happen too anybody.
> That sound,The blood & those who where running around clueless with body parts & bits of skin missing will not be leaving my mind any time soon or the minds of those involved.
> Again,Hope everyone is alright I am very,Very lucky too be where I am just now
> I understand these images might be upsetting however I feel as though people should know what happened


I'll leave the facebook link here since I dont want to post graphic images directly on here. https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=456413698028735&id=100009803251519


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

A bit more info from various news sources, people nearby etc:

Explosion was near the ticket office not in the arena proper, no confirmation of cause yet but bomb squad are in there.
Police interceptor seen moving at speed followed by a military jeep towards Cheetham Hill in the north of the city.
Local Holiday Inn has taken in a bunch of children who got separated from their parents, local taxis offering free rides. 
All the acts appear to be fine
Possibly upwards of 20 deaths confirmed so far
Liberal Democrat Leader Tim Farron has condemned it as an attack but there's been no confirmation that's actually the case yet.
Locals are offering their homes for shelter or rides for those stranded (the arena is above a rail station which is understandably closed.)


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## starsfan24 (Dec 4, 2016)

Prayers for all that were effected. Just terrible.


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## skypod (Nov 13, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> I'll leave the facebook link here since I dont want to post graphic images directly on here. https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=456413698028735&id=100009803251519



That is sickening. It's easy to not fully comprehend the reality of these situations when you hear about casualities.




There's a video of a man supposedly being pulled from a car. Would it be an explosion set off by a person and they were waiting to see impact/results?


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## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

Credit for finding the image goes to @InUtero

http://imgur.com/a/4Ja68


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## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

DesolationRow said:


> Sounds utterly horrific, @Rowdy Yates. So sorry that your niece had to witness such mayhem. Relieved to hear she is all right.
> 
> Some reports which are tentative suggest the possibility of the usage of a nail bomb or nail bombs.


Thank you Deso. She is only 15 and although I only spoke to her briefly it was apparent that it was horrendous and definitely a bomb. She said from what she saw she would guess the injured and dead will mount into the hundreds. Dead bodies and body parts everywhere near the entrance of the arena. I am making my way to my sisters house now to give her a big cuddle. I bought her the concert tickets for her birthday a few weeks ago. Truly tragic situation


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## El Dandy (Oct 2, 2007)

surely the religion of peace has nothing to do with this


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

El Dandy said:


> surely the religion of peace has nothing to do with this


Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. How about for once we try and act rational and wait for the actual information to emerge? No point adding to the hysteria until it's confirmed tbh.


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## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

The media want it to be what we don't.......As 'silly' as this sounds, hopefully this _wasn't_ a terror attack, and merely an accident!!!


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## skypod (Nov 13, 2014)

L-DOPA said:


> Credit for finding the image goes to @InUtero
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/4Ja68




Is that 6.32pm local time in the US or UK? 

I do think it'll likely be I.S. but just wondering if this is someone bandwagoning or pre-announcing this and its gone unnoticed.


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Always remember, whether it's them or not terrorists will always take credit for it. Wait until we even know it's a bomb/device ffs, there's been no official confirmation yet. I'll be first in line to condemn the terrorists when/if there is.


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## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

skypod said:


> Is that 6.32pm local time in the US or UK?
> 
> I do think it'll likely be I.S. but just wondering if this is someone bandwagoning or pre-announcing this and its gone unnoticed.


It apparently was tweeted mere hours before the attack took place so it looks like a pre-announcement. Doesn't necessarily mean ISIS are behind this but it's worth taking note of.


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## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

Things can blow up without it being terrorists :draper2


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Simply Flawless said:


> Things can blow up without it being terrorists :draper2


And I'm hoping beyond hope that's the case here.


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## TheLapsedFan (Jan 13, 2017)

El Dandy said:


> surely the religion of peace has nothing to do with this


Surely it's not Trump's team doing this to create a diversion.


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## skypod (Nov 13, 2014)

RavishingRickRules said:


> Always remember, whether it's them or not terrorists will always take credit for it. Wait until we even know it's a bomb/device ffs, there's been no official confirmation yet. I'll be first in line to condemn the terrorists when/if there is.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/866799623008137217


Keep in mind UK police aren't as aggressive or trigger happy as American ones so can't imagine they'd approach a car like this for little reason.


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## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

Simply Flawless said:


> Things can blow up without it being terrorists :draper2


At the entrance of a arena that coincidently has 20000 plus people exiting the place?

Get a grip and wake the fuck up


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

RavishingRickRules said:


> A bit more info from various news sources, people nearby etc:
> 
> Explosion was near the ticket office not in the arena proper, no confirmation of cause yet but bomb squad are in there.
> Police interceptor seen moving at speed followed by a military jeep towards Cheetham Hill in the north of the city.
> ...


Excellent gathering of information--thank you!

Heard about the Holiday Inn. A fine service indeed.


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## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

Simply Flawless said:


> Things can blow up without it being terrorists :draper2


In a _sick_ way im hoping this is the case.......Got a horrible feeling it isn't though!


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

skypod said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/866799623008137217
> 
> 
> Keep in mind UK police aren't as aggressive or trigger happy as American ones so can't imagine they'd approach a car like this for little reason.


I don't need lecturing about UK police tbh, I've lived here my entire life and seen them act far more aggressive than that taking a drunk person out of a night club. All this shows is GMP taking no chances with a potentially suspicious person. In fact, Police here can be a lot more "hands on" than in America, here if someone has a knife etc police will gang up and tackle them, there they just shoot.


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Rowdy Yates said:


> Thank you Deso. She is only 15 and although I only spoke to her briefly it was apparent that it was horrendous and definitely a bomb. She said from what she saw she would guess the injured and dead will mount into the hundreds. Dead bodies and body parts everywhere near the entrance of the arena. I am making my way to my sisters house now to give her a big cuddle. I bought her the concert tickets for her birthday a few weeks ago. Truly tragic situation


Truly awful, my friend. Take care of your niece as you can...


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## markoutsmarkout (Dec 30, 2014)

99% chance it's the religion of peace. We all know it.


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

It's sad to assume that with something like this, it's most likely terrorism related, but that's just because its kind of the most likely scenario with stuff like this. That being said, I'll hold out on assuming this would be the case until we hear more. Regardless, the fact that I'm becoming more desensitized to this type of thing is absolutely depressing in eyes, but my first reaction to hearing this was "not again..." 

Hopefully they got everybody out alright and hopefully that death toll falls. Depressing, scary, yet familiar state state all around. I wish for the safety of everybody there.


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## El Dandy (Oct 2, 2007)

Rowdy Yates said:


> At the entrance of a arena that coincidently has 20000 plus people exiting the place?
> 
> Get a grip and wake the fuck up


Easy there don't get to rowdy, Rowdy Yates. Suggesting on a message board dedicated to imaginary athletics that this could be the work of the religion of peace would just add to the hysteria.


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## Slickback (Jun 17, 2015)

Swan said:


> In a _sick_ way im hoping this is the case.......Got a horrible feeling it isn't though!


Why should you or anyone "hope" this isn't the case?? I mean I kind of get what your trying to say. But still, just face it for what it is.


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

El Dandy said:


> surely the religion of peace has nothing to do with this


We all know it was those damn Amish savages! When will the world come together and say "enough of this shit"?


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

If the debate is over who did this as opposed to who are the victims ... it's part of the battle lost.

At least till we know more, I think we owe the dead the dignity and respect they deserve to not have them turned into a political back and forth on the internet by random strangers who don't give a fuck about them without even knowing who or what killed them. 

I'm just as devastated today as I was the first time I heard about a bomb attack and saw the bodies on TV. The horrible images have never left my mind and they won't leave the minds of the survivors here. I appreciate the anger and how ya'all are reacting too, but some of this back and forth is becoming petty.


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

A&E departments and Ambulances in central Manchester now closed for anything other than life threatening issues in order to deal with the victims, people searching frantically for family members.


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## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

To target a group of people that is made up mainly of teenage girls is a barbaric act of cowardice. Some really sick people that live amongst us

Greater Manchester police confirm 19 dead so far. So fucking sad


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## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> Why should you or anyone "hope" this isn't the case?? I mean I kind of get what your trying to say. But still, just face it for what it is.


Oh FFS, 19 dead. 

I need to make this clear, i DON'T want it to her a terrorist attack because it's scary how powerless we are to these CUNTS!!!

However, you're right, it looks more and more like a terror attack, FUCK!!


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

twitter.com/gmpolice/status/866808564316344321

A lot of casualties. My thoughts go out to all affected and their loved ones  .


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Swan said:


> Oh FFS, 19 dead.
> 
> I need to make this clear, i DON'T want it to her a terrorist attack because it's scary how powerless we are to these CUNTS!!!
> 
> However, you're right, it looks more and more like a terror attack, FUCK!!


Almost guaranteed that it will come out that the government has a file on the suicide bomber and had surveillance on him at some point but then decided he wasn't worth continuing surveillance.

That's been the case for the perpetrators of like the last 20 terrorist attacks in Europe in a row.


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## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

UK should step up their defense budgets, they've become a magnet for these large scale attacks over the years


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Just showed up on our news that US media is reporting it as a suicide bomber when nothing of the sort has been said by GMP or any of our news.


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## Cooper09 (Aug 24, 2016)

This is never going to end. They'll just keep attacking and the same old pricks will still shout racism to those who demand something be done. Rinse and repeat until civilization has been wiped out.


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## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

deepelemblues said:


> Almost guaranteed that it will come out that the government has a file on the suicide bomber and had surveillance on him at some point but then decided he wasn't worth continuing surveillance.
> 
> That's been the case for the perpetrators of like the last 20 terrorist attacks in Europe in a row.


You're probably right........I won't get too political, but my country, the UK, is pathetic at times. I think this country let over 200 'British nationals' fight for ISIS in Syria, help kill our Troops, then let them fuckers back in the country!!!


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## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Rowdy Yates said:


> To target a group of people is a barbaric act of cowardice. Some really sick people that live amongst us


...is what I think you meant to say.


Targeting any group of people for mass violence and full scale death is unacceptable, what the general make up of the group is shouldn't have any bearing.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/866808270933176322


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## Slickback (Jun 17, 2015)

KO Bossy said:


> ...is what I think you meant to say.
> 
> 
> Targeting any group of people for mass violence and full scale death is unacceptable, what the general make up of the group is shouldn't have any bearing.


Pretty obvious, he also meant that, do you really need to nitpick to that level?


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Reports now - it wasnt as suicide bomber as reported by the US media (fuck them.) It was a device, a second one has been found and they're looking to perform a controlled explosion now.


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## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

Iconoclast said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/866808270933176322


Oh no..........I have a lump in my throat now!!

*prays*


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## embarassed fan (Sep 26, 2016)

Swan said:


> You're probably right........I won't get too political, but my country, the UK, is pathetic at times. I think this country let over 200 'British nationals' fight for ISIS in Syria, help kill our Troops, then let them fuckers back in the country!!!


*Everyone make a mistakes. Try to be more tolerant and considerate. *


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## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

embarassed fan said:


> *Everyone make a mistakes. Try to be more tolerant and considerate. *


Please elaborate?

Or am i not getting your reasonable sarcasm?


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## markoutsmarkout (Dec 30, 2014)

NotGuilty said:


> UK should step up their defense budgets, they've become a magnet for these large scale attacks over the years


Or, you know, not let these people into their countries.


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## IDidPaige (Mar 18, 2017)

Time to break out the Facebook image filters.


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## markoutsmarkout (Dec 30, 2014)

IDidPaige said:


> Time to break out the Facebook image filters.


Can't let a good opportunity to virtue-signal go to waste!


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Bit more info, appears to have been a nail bomb and they've now said it was actually outside the venue and not in the foyer like first reported.


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## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

apparently some woman made a fb post, she was within close range of the explosion and was covered in lots of gruesome debris. Happened near the box office. Second device found by police.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

All terrorist organizations have been known to use nail bombs historically - but the only ones currently active are the Islamist ones. 

However, this would deviate from their traditional targets as they've been careful not to attack western children directly yet. Wouldn't this be the first?


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## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

Anyway.........RIP those 19 people who died. 

And the 50 injured - Get well soon.

Fucking heartbreaking!


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## Slickback (Jun 17, 2015)

NotGuilty said:


> apparently some woman made a fb post, she was within close range of the explosion and was covered in lots of gruesome debris. Happened near the box office. Second device found by police.


Pretty sure your talking about the post I linked earlier in the thread


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## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

Around 1000 Muslims are helping out the victims but these idiots would only remember the attacker


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## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

they completed the controlled explosion of the second device


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Another update - the second suspicious backage turned out to be abandoned clothing and not another bomb. Everything's changing by the minute right now, just chaos.


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## skypod (Nov 13, 2014)

Iconoclast said:


> All terrorist organizations have been known to use nail bombs historically - but the only ones currently active are the Islamist ones.
> 
> However, this would deviate from their traditional targets as they've been careful not to attack western children directly yet. Wouldn't this be the first?



I'd say it's a big American star who they would see as promoting female sexuality too but then again these things are more to do with numbers in arenas than the acts. They targeted football stadiums in Europe. 


What's telling is that these things happen during election campaigns which just adds to the already present vitriol and the division a country feels in a tragedy's wake.


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## lotsofammo (Dec 30, 2010)

http://thereligionofpeace.com/ *Wake the fuck up people!!*


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## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

FasihFranck said:


> Around 1000 Muslims are helping out the victims but these idiots would only remember the attacker


You know that, how?


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## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

Turns out if my niece had set off home 2 minutes sooner it is more than possible she would have been caught up in the blast. The blast happened in a area that she would have walked through in order to get to the tram stop in Victoria station. The poor girl is devastated and she has seen things no person should ever see let alone a 15 year old girl. Absolutely fucking disgusting. Cant explain how relieved I feel atm


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

skypod said:


> I'd say it's a big American star who they would see as promoting female sexuality too but then again these things are more to do with numbers in arenas than the acts. They targeted football stadiums in Europe.
> 
> What's telling is that these things happen during election campaigns which just adds to the already present vitriol and the division a country feels in a tragedy's wake.


What I was really trying to get at was trying to question attacking children because there is no greater way to unite the entire world against you even more than to kill children. 

In 2014, the Taliban crossed this line in Pakistan by gunning down children in a school and it united the entire populace against them in a fierce escalation of the anti-Taliban war - and they've been badly decimated and their numbers are shrinking. 

If it turns out to be ISIS and they claim responsibility, I really hope that UK does not allow something like this to go unpunished. The narrative and infighting needs to stop and Europe needs to unite against the ISIS and other Islamist terrorist groups otherwise this shit will become the norm. 

Sitting back, debating and fighting amongst themselves and hoping this problem will go away on its own isn't achieving anything.


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## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

Iconoclast said:


> What I was really trying to get at was trying to question attacking children because there is no greater way to unite the entire world against you even more than to kill children.
> 
> In 2014, the Taliban crossed this line in Pakistan by gunning down children in a school and it united the entire populace against them in a fierce escalation of the anti-Taliban war - and they've been badly decimated and their numbers are shrinking.
> 
> ...


Not to mention I assume it would hamper their recruitment efforts, killing innocent children isn't exactly a way to bring forth willing recruits.

Even if they were behind it I'm not sure they will admit it quickly.


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## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

There are many Muslims in Manchester who are helping the victims.You can't blame us for these attacks blame the attacker not the whole community.My moms country Pakistan is one of the worst effected country through terrrorism and such acts were norm there which led to ban from international events and you people trying to blame us.Pretty funny


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Iconoclast said:


> What I was really trying to get at was trying to question attacking children because there is no greater way to unite the entire world against you even more than to kill children.
> 
> In 2014, the Taliban crossed this line in Pakistan by gunning down children in a school and it united the entire populace against them in a fierce escalation of the anti-Taliban war - and they've been badly decimated and their numbers are shrinking.
> 
> ...


I agree 100%, sadly I'm not sure us and Europe will unite on very many things for the forseeable future with the attitude we've had with them in negotiations (and vice versa.) I can see some big retribution coming for this one, we bombed in response to the Paris attacks, we'll almost certainly bomb in response to them coming for our own. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm anti war but this isn't regular war. We need to stop with the half measures, we're either in or we're out. If we're out, stop bombing and try something else. If we're in stop with the bullshit and let's use some real force. This isn't afghanistan with impossible terrain and hidey holes in mountains. I struggle to believe that if the military might of the west was used to it's capability there's no way a bunch of terrorists in a fucking desert are winning that fight.


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## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

FasihFranck said:


> There are many Muslims in Manchester who are helping the victims.You can't blame us for these attacks blame the attacker not the whole community.My moms country Pakistan is one of the worst effected country through terrrorism and such acts were norm there which led to ban from international events and you people trying to blame us.Pretty funny


Wait, show me these Muslims helping the victims? Don't include those working for the NHS.


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## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

The consequences of this attack would not be faced by the real terrorists and the organisation but people like me who after working our ass off to get into UK university would be rejected just due to the fact that I am Muslim


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

@Iconoclast, the Nice attacker specifically targeted little French children on that road adjacent to the beach, moving the vehicle so that he would crush as many kids as possible. For whatever reason this was dropped within most Western media outlets within hours of the attack. Having said that, the questions you raise are quite interesting.

Thinking off the top of my head (and this is a completely different matter from the one broached above), on this day four years ago British soldier Lee Rigby was hacked to death on a London street by radical Islamists (May 22, 2013); two months ago today was the truck attack near Westminster by the lifelong petty criminal who one day recognized that he had been a "bad Muslim" and sought to rectify this by slaughtering non-believers, which occurred one year to the day after the Brussels airport bombings; and according to someone I trust, an ex-intelligence official, chatter about the Manchester Arena was found hours before the attack tonight in Manchester happened.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

RavishingRickRules said:


> I agree 100%, sadly I'm not sure us and Europe will unite on very many things for the forseeable future with the attitude we've had with them in negotiations (and vice versa.) I can see some big retribution coming for this one, we bombed in response to the Paris attacks, we'll almost certainly bomb in response to them coming for our own. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm anti war but this isn't regular war. We need to stop with the half measures, we're either in or we're out. If we're out, stop bombing and try something else. If we're in stop with the bullshit and let's use some real force. This isn't afghanistan with impossible terrain and hidey holes in mountains. I struggle to believe that if the military might of the west was used to it's capability there's no way a bunch of terrorists in a fucking desert are winning that fight.


No there isn't. There is literally no reason why the ISIS cannot be completely decimated in that region with a full-scale european / American attack. 

Jordan is a prime example of how to destroy terrorists in their midst as they had a zero tolerance attitude and in a swift decision the king of Jordan massacred their local terrorist cells (basically Palestinian terrorists) and haven't had any problems since. 

The US trying to upend Assad has become the single greatest hindrance in the war against ISIS and the US is simply too arrogant to admit that.



DesolationRow said:


> @Iconoclast, the Nice attacker specifically targeted little French children on that road adjacent to the beach, moving the vehicle so that he would crush as many kids as possible. For whatever reason this was dropped within most Western media outlets within hours of the attack. Having said that, the questions you raise are quite interesting.


Hopefully this one won't be so easy to suppress ... But holy shit if they actually did that after Nice. Even I didn't know that the attacked were children ...


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## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

FasihFranck said:


> There are many Muslims in Manchester who are helping the victims.You can't blame us for these attacks blame the attacker not the whole community.My moms country Pakistan is one of the worst effected country through terrrorism and such acts were norm there which led to ban from international events and you people trying to blame us.Pretty funny


Are you a terrorist? If not then no one is blaming you directly. All religions of people live peacefully in and around Manchester and will continue to do so. Will be nice to see the Muslim community come out and denounce this savage act for what is for a change. Your post confirms that you also have strong suspicions of who is behind this act


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## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

Now I can't provide the live footage but many people on Twitter and some people close to me are telling that Muslims are helping the victims by driving them to nearby hotels.


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

FasihFranck said:


> There are many Muslims in Manchester who are helping the victims.You can't blame us for these attacks blame the attacker not the whole community.My moms country Pakistan is one of the worst effected country through terrrorism and such acts were norm there which led to ban from international events and you people trying to blame us.Pretty funny


why is it our responsibility as outsiders to convince your co-religionists that they're wrong about your religion

it's your religion

the heads in the sand or tacit acceptance of violent jihad is way too high in muslim communities sorry 

you want muslims to not get looked at sideways then muslims gotta make the effort to end the acceptance of violent jihad by too many other muslims

the most effective people at accomplishing that would be the muslims that don't believe in violent jihad

if instead of bitching and moaning about expectations being placed on you you'd have done the work from the beginning then islamic terrorism would be a much smaller deal and you wouldn't get looked at sideways anywhere near as much

you decided you'd mostly rather bitch and moan about how unfair it is and here we are

it's unfair tough shit, people are being slaughtered by the thousands all over the world both by your co-religionists and by their victims going to war against your co-religionists in response

man up


----------



## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

FasihFranck said:


> Now I can't provide the live footage but many people on Twitter and some people close to me are telling that Muslims are helping the victims by driving them to nearby hotels.


Oh FFS, please stop!!!!!


----------



## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

Many Muslims are condemning this attack I don't know what's the need for a specific group to condemn this act publicly if many people are denouncing this horrendous attack


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## Dell (Feb 24, 2014)

I'm so sad, RIP to those poor Ariana fans, most of them just kids enjoying a night out and having this happen to them, fuck I feel helpless and depressed. I know some guys there but thankfully they are safe, I'm praying for everyone right now.


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## DWils (Jul 18, 2016)

Trump promised a plan to defeat ISIS within 30 days of taking office. It's been around 130 days - still no plan.


----------



## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

FasihFranck said:


> Many Muslims are condemning this attack I don't know what's the need for a specific group to condemn this act publicly if many people are denouncing this horrendous attack


In the UK, it's hard to know what to believe, most Muslims stick together in communities, only the odd few live in actual British society!


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## Slickback (Jun 17, 2015)

And here we go again, the vicious cycle of Terrorist attack happens ----- Muslims who aren't terrorist scream "DONT YOU DARE BLAME ALL MUSLIMS FOR THIS ATTACK" even though majority aren't doing that ----- Then they do absolutely fucking nothing in terms of standing up against these sort of attacks, just either stay quiet until the next attack happens to which they can then repeat "DONT YOU DARE BLAME ALL MUSLIMS FOR THIS ATTACK". Or even worse the normal "non-radicals" will go on twitter and support the terrorists. Over and over again.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

FasihFranck said:


> Many Muslims are condemning this attack I don't know what's the need for a specific group to condemn this act publicly if many people are denouncing this horrendous attack


public statements made to and for the media by muslims condemning jihadi attacks have 100% failed at ending attacks or at making non-muslims not look at muslims sideways 

so maybe it's time to acknowledge that what is being done by muslims to ideologically challenge jihadism by their co-religionists isn't enough and more should be done


----------



## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

Why the fuck are you attempting to turn this tragedy into a Muslim sympathy event. Innocent people including children were murdered and injured by extremists tonight and all you want to do is gain support for Muslims. Piss poor.


----------



## razzathereaver (Apr 2, 2012)

FasihFranck said:


> Many Muslims are condemning this attack I don't know what's the need for a specific group to condemn this act publicly if many people are denouncing this horrendous attack


Weren't you pulling this dogshit during the Parliament attacks as well?


----------



## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

What I will say is that it is a very strong possibility this is a suicide bomber. If not then the culprit will identified pretty quickly by CCTV as the area where the incident took place is basically a walkway from the arena to Victoria train station with practically no place to hide a bomb or any sort of device


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## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

First of all, nobody knows who the attacker is so let's not get ourselves in a mess here before it is known who is responsible shall we?

Secondly (if this was an Islamist attack), I think it's clear to everyone that many individual Muslims will condemn the attack but that does not change the fact that Islam right now as a religion has a massive problem with extremist groups within the ideology that needs to be addressed and dealt with. It can't be suppressed and appeased simply to not offend as there are real people who are suffering and dying due to Islamic terrorism/extremism.

I'm sorry if that upsets certain people but the truth doesn't deal with feelings but facts. How many attacks will it take until European countries get a hold of this situation? Stopping the flow of migrants coming across the boarder until proper vetting checks are put in place would be a great start but I know I sound like a broken record saying that.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

The only solution is a full-scale European war in the heart of ISIS territory. 

There is no other solution. There is no peaceful solution to be found here. 

(Even if _this_ isn't an Islamist attack - doesn't mean that such a war wouldn't prevent others in the long run).

After watching the grisly videos of the little girls, I've had enough, I'm going full on neo-con from this point onwards. Kill the motherfuckers. Every last one of them. Enough is enough of this garbage.


----------



## lotsofammo (Dec 30, 2010)




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## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

Rowdy Yates said:


> What I will say is that it is a very strong possibility this is a suicide bomber. If not then the culprit will identified pretty quickly by CCTV as the area where the incident took place is basically a walkway from the arena to Victoria train station with practically no place to hide a bomb or any sort of device



news sources originally said suicide bomber but as of now the belief is it was a device left by someone.


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## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

I don't know about UK but the Islamic community are condemning this attack


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer (May 31, 2011)

_*I am happy that Ariana Grande is okay but this attack was not fucking needed or I should say necessary. The people that were attackers should be jailed for life and not be released. My prayers goes out to the families and friends that lost those 19 people that were killed. *_


----------



## embarassed fan (Sep 26, 2016)

lotsofammo said:


>


*Delete this please.*


----------



## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Iconoclast said:


> The only solution is a full-scale European war in the heart of ISIS territory.
> 
> There is no other solution. There is no peaceful solution to be found here.
> 
> (Even if _this_ isn't an Islamist attack - doesn't mean that such a war wouldn't prevent others in the long run).


I don't even think it'd need to be a "war" as much as an obliteration of them and their allies. I dunno, I'm definitely charged with anger here. I see no reason to put soldiers in front of them to shoot at, we've got so many weapons in the west we could rain armageddon down. I'm sick of the pussyfooting around if we're going to bomb them. Quit the fucking drone strikes and attempts at "precision" and little air strikes(read: tiny insignificant shit that's not done anything whilst we've been doing it) and just fucking get it done if that's how we're going. If we want to be soft about it do something different because the shit we're doing now is NOT working.


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## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

TBH I think there should be more security in place for such events as these are soft targets by those idiots and the general notion that U.K. or US is safe enough to not require heavy security needs to end as well


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

FasihFranck said:


> TBH I think there should be more security in place for such events as these are soft targets by those idiots and the general notion that U.K. or US is safe enough to not require heavy security needs to end as well


This is why I want ALL Muslims like this to stay in their own countries because even those who condemn attacks simply do NOT understand what what liberty really means. 

A feeling of safety is part of the western quality of life that was created after losing 10's of millions of people in the bloodiest war in human history not so another group could come and take it away.

10's of millions of grandfathers didn't sacrifice themselves and their friends and brothers to sit back and watch their children have to cower in fear of impending death. 

You simply do not understand liberty. You have no right to life in a western society.


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## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

Machiavelli said:


> And here we go again, the vicious cycle of Terrorist attack happens ----- Muslims who aren't terrorist scream "DONT YOU DARE BLAME ALL MUSLIMS FOR THIS ATTACK" even though majority aren't doing that ----- Then they do absolutely fucking nothing in terms of standing up against these sort of attacks, just either stay quiet until the next attack happens to which they can then repeat "DONT YOU DARE BLAME ALL MUSLIMS FOR THIS ATTACK". Or even worse the normal "non-radicals" will go on twitter and support the terrorists. Over and over again.


Please explain that what a Muslim like me could do against these attacks apart from condemning? My country is one of the safest in the world but that doesn't mean that we have nil security.Ban real creatures behind these attacks but not innocent people like me and other Muslims who have nothing to do with this attack


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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

Just hearing about this now. Terrible, terrible news. Absolutely haunting to see people on Twitter posting pictures of their missing loved ones who attended the concert, hoping someone knows their whereabouts. Can't even imagine.


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## El Dandy (Oct 2, 2007)

L-DOPA said:


> How many attacks will it take until European countries get a hold of this situation?


What situations? There is no problem in Europe it's just part and parcel m8


















I wonder if the London mayor would tell the families of the 19 who aren't coming home tonight that this is just part and parcel


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Most of the reports corroborating that point about the Nice attacker noted that the truck swerved erratically, but not so erratically, after all, as the terrorist sought to mow down as many kids as possible, @Iconoclast. 

This discussion brings to mind Karl Popper's book _The Open Society and Its Enemies_, on the paradox of tolerance:


> Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.


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## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

I'm just going to say it, fuck PC - Muslims, for the most part, will never speak or show sympathy for the people those 'extreme' Muslim who kill innocent people.......The same Muslims who are housed, and given hand outs, and live comfortably here in the UK. Better than our own!

The UK needs to grow a dick........Stop letting ourselves get fucked, and start fucking ourselves!

No left, no right, common fucking sense needs to provale!!!


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE (Sep 12, 2013)

I really hope people don't become desensitized to this crap. People need to rage against this nonsense.


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## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

Iconoclast said:


> FasihFranck said:
> 
> 
> > TBH I think there should be more security in place for such events as these are soft targets by those idiots and the general notion that U.K. or US is safe enough to not require heavy security needs to end as well
> ...


I live in my own country and here we have many people from Britain and US so should we ban them all? No. I know Muslims might be incompatible with European lifestyle but this shouldn't mean that we can't move on to other countries


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## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

You can't deny the fact that terrorism is now part of our daily lives so can't blame Macron or Sadiq Khan


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## The Masked One (Aug 29, 2015)

Fucking vile terrorists. This makes me sick..


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## skypod (Nov 13, 2014)

El Dandy said:


> What situations? There is no problem in Europe it's just part and parcel m8
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How about you post their full quotes rather than mislead people with bait headlines?


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## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

Why the fuck do you people hate leftist politicians? They don't want terrorists attacks but they also want people who are innocent to live their lives peacefully


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

When children have now become part of their ever increasing range of targets, something better be changed, NOW. You don't sit on your hands and knees and let this one go like nothing, because if they do it'll only happen again, and it could be even worse. 

There's gotta be some full scale invasion by the combined forces of the US, Russia, Europe, and pretty much the majority of countries who value human rights at any sort of level.


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

FasihFranck said:


> I know Muslims might be incompatible with European lifestyle but this shouldn't mean that we can't move on to other countries


Actually it does. You can only become part of a community if you are "compatible" with it. There are plenty of liberal "Muslims" who were born and raised in the UK, I know hundreds of them personally. They live as BRITISH people. They identify as British, they support our country, it's teams, its identity far more than they support Islam. If you want to live in our communities you have to share our values, those are the values you will be living by. Those are the laws you will be governed by. Your prejudices will get you arrested here, you will be unable to hold a job unless you change your lifestyle and morals to reflect our own. This isn't debatable, Sharia isn't an option here. You can worship whoever the fuck you want, we don't care. But you definitely can not join our community unless you are "compatible" with our lifestyle and values. People like you are half of the problem, you are spreading the division for the Muslims who ARE assimilated, who already have our values, who've been here for generations. If you think Muslims are incompatible with Western Lifestyle, don't fucking come here, we don't want you.


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## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

This is fucking sickening.



BTheVampireSlayer said:


> _*I am happy that Ariana Grande is okay but this attack was not fucking needed or I should say necessary. The people that were attackers should be jailed for life and not be released. My prayers goes out to the families and friends that lost those 19 people that were killed. *_


They should get the fucking death penalty IMO, a slow and painful one at that. Why should us taxpayers pay for those cunts while they're in jail.


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## Slickback (Jun 17, 2015)

FasihFranck said:


> Why the fuck do you people hate leftist politicians? They don't want terrorists attacks but they also want people who are innocent to live their lives peacefully


But they'll protect their identities and spread bullshit false narratives though...


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## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Dr. Middy said:


> When children have now become part of their ever increasing range of targets, something better be changed, NOW. You don't sit on your hands and knees and let this one go like nothing, because if they do it'll only happen again, and it could be even worse.
> 
> There's gotta be some full scale invasion by the combined forces of the US, Russia, Europe, and pretty much the majority of countries who value human rights at any sort of level.


Nobody values Human Rights anymore.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

FasihFranck said:


> I live in my own country and here *we have many people from Britain and US *so should we ban them all? No. I know Muslims might be incompatible with European lifestyle but this shouldn't mean that we can't move on to other countries


Go right ahead. Please do this. I beg you to do this. 

90% of muslim countries are pretty much 100% dependent on Western technology. It would be a fantastic experiment to see what muslims are capable of without western expertise and technology.


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## lotsofammo (Dec 30, 2010)

delete


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## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Iconoclast said:


> Go right ahead. Please do this. I beg you to do this.
> 
> 90% of muslim countries are dependent on Western technology. It would be a fantastic experiment to see what muslims are capable of without western expertise and technology.


You know what would end all this ISIS bullshit if just one country was wiped off the map everything people, animals, plants all gone.


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

taker1986 said:


> This is fucking sickening.
> 
> 
> They should get the fucking death penalty IMO, a slow and painful one at that. Why should us taxpayers pay for those cunts while they're in jail.


We don't have the death penalty, thankfully. You might be cool giving the government the ability to decide you forfeit your life, some of us really aren't. As far as I can see the government have way too much control, power and influence on our lives. They need less of all of those things, not more. I'd much rather we removed all and any comforts from prisons for crimes like this, sex crimes, murder etc. You should suffer, not get an easy fade to black. Give them a small cell with a toilet, keep them nourished and healthy, with no leisure time, no social interaction, no way to harm themselves, no entertainment, no pleasure. nothing but 4 walls and living with the consequences of their actions. Life imprisonment should be LIFE imprisonment. Not a holiday camp for 20 years or a nice meal and a permanent sleep.


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## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

Iconoclast said:


> FasihFranck said:
> 
> 
> > I live in my own country and here *we have many people from Britain and US *so should we ban them all? No. I know Muslims might be incompatible with European lifestyle but this shouldn't mean that we can't move on to other countries
> ...


Eastern actually


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## embarassed fan (Sep 26, 2016)

I wonder what ISIS members are doing right now. We never hear the other side of the story during events like this.


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

FasihFranck said:


> I live in my own country and here we have many people from Britain and US so should we ban them all? No. I know Muslims might be incompatible with European lifestyle but this shouldn't mean that we can't move on to other countries


Freedom of religion is fine. Nobody is out for blood on Muslims who living in European countries that are well adjusted and already share many of the same values in those communities.

But if there are Muslims who refuse to become compatible with the communities they decide to move into because of their religions, I'm sorry, but fuck them. That's their fault, and if they don't like it they can happily move back into the Middle East and stay there.


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## El Dandy (Oct 2, 2007)

FasihFranck said:


> They don't want terrorists attacks but they also want people who are innocent to live their lives peacefully


What innocent people?

You mean the the 19 in Manchester, the 130 in Paris, the 32 in Belgium etc etc etc etc?

Sorry, no sympy for those who follow Islam.


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## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

My cousins who live in US or UK don't even know what Sharia is and even I don't know what it is and we never follow the actual sharia.I have heard that some Muslims in these countries are more extremist than us but a person like me who even study English Legal System won't have any problem with living in UK or US so as I said you shouldn't ban all the Muslims but these terrorists


----------



## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

I don't want to flair the 'muslims in the UK get more rights than any' flame........I wasn't allowed to take my daughter out of school for ONE day for a Christian wedding. Whereas other Muslim kids in her school had weeks off, no problem, for one of their religious holidays!

STOP FUCKING SYMPATHISING for these people. In the UK, they are no1!!!


----------



## Neuron (Jul 31, 2013)

FasihFranck said:


> No. *I know Muslims might be incompatible with European lifestyle* but this shouldn't mean that we can't move on to other countries


You literally explained the problem of mass Muslim(this could apply to more demographics than just Muslims though tbh) migration and then went on to promote the open borders freedom of movement meme. So if a tribe is moving into another tribe's area and conflicts happen, your response is to shrug your shoulders and say that it's mean to have borders. How can you post something like this in a serious manner?


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

FasihFranck said:


> My cousins who live in US or UK don't even know what Sharia* is and even I don't know what it is and we never follow the actual sharia*.I have heard that some Muslims in these countries are more extremist than us but a person like me who even study English Legal System won't have any problem with living in UK or US so as I said you shouldn't ban all the Muslims but these terrorists


And yet you hate homosexuals and think that that's not extremism nor does it have anything to do with the fact you were brainwashed by a schizophrenic pedophile's religion to think this.

You don't belong in the west. Too bad there are too many suicidal white people who protect people like you otherwise you would be vetted on your views on homosexuality and denied entry to any free western society.

And before you go "BUT CHRISTIANS HATE HOMOSEXUALS TOO", the answer to that is that we already have enough homophobes here. There's no reason to import more.


----------



## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

El Dandy said:


> FasihFranck said:
> 
> 
> > They don't want terrorists attacks but they also want people who are innocent to live their lives peacefully
> ...


You know over hundreds of thousands people have died in Muslims countries like Syria,Afghanistan,Iraq,Pakistan etc due to terrorism so just because Western media 
Turn a blind eye towards them means that those people are not innocent and deserved to die?


----------



## lotsofammo (Dec 30, 2010)




----------



## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Iconoclast said:


> And yet you hate homosexuals and think that that's not extremism nor does it have anything to do with the fact you were brainwashed by a schizophrenic pedophile's religion to think this.
> 
> You don't belong in the west. Too bad there are too many suicidal white people who protect people like you otherwise you would be vetted on your views on homosexuality and denied entry to any free western society.


Not to mention expressing that hatred in any way, including speech is a crime here. Not going to do very well at the "UK University" he's been accepted into when he'll be booted and likely arrested the minute he expresses his views on homosexuals. Because it's a guaranteed thing that he will meet many of them at university in the UK.


----------



## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

Iconoclast said:


> FasihFranck said:
> 
> 
> > My cousins who live in US or UK don't even know what Sharia* is and even I don't know what it is and we never follow the actual sharia*.I have heard that some Muslims in these countries are more extremist than us but a person like me who even study English Legal System won't have any problem with living in UK or US so as I said you shouldn't ban all the Muslims but these terrorists
> ...


What does that have to do with this thread? Fuck off if you want to bring in off topic subjects in this thread


----------



## skypod (Nov 13, 2014)

Swan said:


> I don't want to flair the 'muslims in the UK get more rights than any' flame........I wasn't allowed to take my daughter out of school for ONE day for a Christian wedding. Whereas other Muslim kids in her school had weeks off, no problem, for one of their religious holidays!
> 
> STOP FUCKING SYMPATHISING for these people. In the UK, they are no1!!!



A Christian wedding? A wedding is seen as a social event these days and not a religious one. There'd be a difference with that and a Muslim getting time off during a fast or whatever.


----------



## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

skypod said:


> A Christian wedding? A wedding is seen as a social event these days and not a religious one. There'd be a difference with that and a Muslim getting time off during a fast or whatever.


Can you not see the point here?


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## CretinHop138 (Sep 9, 2015)

Well my younger sister got caught up in it. Thankfully alright.


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## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

Why the fuck this RipNTear still here? Isn't he an immigrant himself?


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

FasihFranck said:


> What does that have to do with this thread? Fuck off if you want to bring in off topic subjects in this thread


That's not off-topic, it pertains to what you said about "If Muslims are incompatible in western society doesn't mean they shouldn't move there." IN the UK you WILL see open displays of public affection from many many homosexuals, they will openly kiss in front of you, they will flaunt their sexuality openly and flamboyantly and almost throw it in your face. If you react to them and say something hateful, you will be arrested and probably deported. Realise this and know that if you hate homosexuality, you don't belong in the UK.


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## Dibil13 (Apr 29, 2016)

It's depressing to feel so powerless.


----------



## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Swan said:


> Can you not see the point here?


He's right actually, a wedding isn't a religious holiday, Ramadan is. You might have grounds to complain if they forced your child to go to school over Christmas.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

FasihFranck said:


> You know over hundreds of thousands people have died in Muslims countries like Syria,Afghanistan,Iraq,Pakistan etc due to terrorism so just because Western media
> Turn a blind eye towards them means that those people are not innocent and deserved to die?


No they don't. To end the ISIS and Islamist terrorism protects and saves muslim lives too. But you're too short-sighted to see this because you don't want to live in those terror filled shitholes either and want to escape to the west. Stay home. Go to an "eastern" college since you seem to think that Muslim countries are fine without the west. 



FasihFranck said:


> What does that have to do with this thread? Fuck off if you want to bring in off topic subjects in this thread


Oh it's perfectly relevant to this thread because you said you want to come to the UK and your type of person is one of those people that don't belong because you're a homophobe - and you don't even want to face the consequences of being a homophobe in a society that prides itself on protecting and allowing them to live free of hatred by your type of people.



FasihFranck said:


> Why the fuck this RipNTear still here? Isn't he an immigrant himself?


I'm a _*Canadian *_Immigrant. 

My values are fully compatible with the west.


----------



## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

FasihFranck said:


> You know over hundreds of thousands people have died in Muslims countries like Syria,Afghanistan,Iraq,Pakistan etc due to terrorism so just because Western media
> Turn a blind eye towards them means that those people are not innocent and deserved to die?


Not our problem. Get your own house in order.


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## Slickback (Jun 17, 2015)

FasihFranck said:


> Why the fuck this RipNTear still here? Isn't he an immigrant himself?


How are you still not banned?


----------



## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

RavishingRickRules said:


> He's right actually, a wedding isn't a religious holiday, Ramadan is. You might have grounds to complain if they forced your child to go to school over Christmas.


It might not be, but a Christian wedding is a Christian celebration. It is Religious!


----------



## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

RavishingRickRules said:


> FasihFranck said:
> 
> 
> > What does that have to do with this thread? Fuck off if you want to bring in off topic subjects in this thread
> ...


Why the fuck those ******* would be shoving it down our throats? I have rarely seen a Muslim praying in these countries or even in Muslim countries publicly


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Dibil13 said:


> It's depressing to feel so powerless.


You want to end this YOU BLOW THE FUCKING COUNTRY OFF THE MAP!! YOU KILL EVERY LIVING THING ON IT. EVERYTHING!!!!


----------



## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Swan said:


> It might not be, but a Christian wedding is a Christian celebration. It is Religious!


Nah you're trying to cherry pick here. You're comparing a religious holiday with a wedding. A Muslim child wouldn't get to be out of school for a Muslim wedding either. That's how it works. Attending a wedding isn't a requirement for "freedom of worship" at all. You're treated exactly the same in that situation. If you find out about a Muslim family being allowed to take their children out of school for a wedding you'd easily win a discrimination suit against the school. You have to compare like with like not say "well a wedding is the same as a major religious holiday," it isn't.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Iconoclast said:


> The only solution is a full-scale European war in the heart of ISIS territory.
> 
> There is no other solution. There is no peaceful solution to be found here.
> 
> ...


But ISIS are everywhere.



Swan said:


> I don't want to flair the 'muslims in the UK get more rights than any' flame........I wasn't allowed to take my daughter out of school for ONE day for a Christian wedding. Whereas other Muslim kids in her school had weeks off, no problem, for one of their religious holidays!
> 
> STOP FUCKING SYMPATHISING for these people. In the UK, they are no1!!!


Three weeks of for Christmas holidays and another for Easter, please take your hysteria somewhere else


----------



## TheLapsedFan (Jan 13, 2017)

RIP to the victims and hopefully none of the injured succumb to their injuries. I feel awful for their families and hope they somehow stay strong and get through losing a loved one.

Victims get so lost in these idiotic threads where you people throw shade on each other about Islamic this and Muslim that. I wonder how many times some of you have gotten off to this news already. Disturbing people itt.


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

FasihFranck said:


> Why the fuck those ******* would be shoving it down our throats? I have rarely seen a Muslim praying in these countries or even in Muslim countries publicly


Because they shove it down EVERYBODY'S throats. That's how it works in a place where being homosexual is CELEBRATED and protected. You can get arrested in the UK for calling homosexuals "*******" by the way, did you know that?


----------



## Sufferin Succotash (Jan 29, 2015)

When i woke up, I thought today was gonna be boring and uneventful tbh ?


----------



## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

Swan said:


> RavishingRickRules said:
> 
> 
> > He's right actually, a wedding isn't a religious holiday, Ramadan is. You might have grounds to complain if they forced your child to go to school over Christmas.
> ...


So does that mean you should get a leave from school for any wedding in this world? There's a vast difference between Religious events and weddings.Dont act ridiculous and no one gets a leave for Ramadan as it is month long even I am not getting here in UAE due to my exams.Put your Muslim hate aside for a second and don't ask ridiculous questions


----------



## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

samizayn said:


> But ISIS are everywhere.
> 
> 
> Three weeks of for Christmas holidays and another for Easter, please take your hysteria somewhere else


In a Christian Country, yes. Try having those holidays in Muslim countries.......Yet Muslims get their holidays here in the UK!

Take your hysteria to Pakistan, and see how you fair!


----------



## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

RavishingRickRules said:


> FasihFranck said:
> 
> 
> > Why the fuck those ******* would be shoving it down our throats? I have rarely seen a Muslim praying in these countries or even in Muslim countries publicly
> ...


And you people hate when you come to UAE that Islam is shove down the throats of foreigners even though it's peaceful and stop making your own rules I have studied English Legal system and there is no such law in the place and stop being anti Muslim Mongerer


----------



## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

"_Investigators are looking into the possibility of a suicide bombing outside of the arena, according to a Western law enforcement official and a US law enforcement official. A male at the scene in Manchester has been identified as the probable bomber, and a US official said suicide bombing is now considered to be the "likely" reason for the blast_"



An update, im sure we'll see the picture of the guy within an hour or two once they confirm


----------



## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Swan said:


> In a Christian Country, yes. Try having those holidays in Muslim countries.......Yet Muslims get their holidays here in the UK!
> 
> Take your hysteria to Pakistan, and see how you fair!


That's retarded. It's got nothing to do with Pakistan, their entire society is different. Of course they aren't as open and liberal as we are, that's why we're an infinitely better country to live in. We're talking about how "fair" things are in the UK, you can't lose the argument and say "well I wouldn't get them in Pakistan" who gives a fuck? You get them here and that's what you're trying to claim as unfair. Are you also a follower of Britain First on Facebook? You sound like one of their parrots right now.


----------



## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

Swan said:


> samizayn said:
> 
> 
> > But ISIS are everywhere.
> ...


In Pakistan members of minority are actually allowed to have a leave and does not do a bit of you don't go to school regularly


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

The Hardcore Show said:


> You want to end this YOU BLOW THE FUCKING COUNTRY OFF THE MAP!! YOU KILL EVERY LIVING THING ON IT. EVERYTHING!!!!


What country? Belgium? The UK?


Jay Valero said:


> Not our problem. Get your own house in order.


Clearly is our problem though



Dr. Middy said:


> Freedom of religion is fine. *Nobody is out for blood on Muslims who living in European countries that are well adjusted* and already share many of the same values in those communities.


Well, they are. Animosity towards Muslims is rife today but the problem is it's not really possible to tell by sight who these people are, so they're all treated the same.


Swan said:


> In a Christian Country, yes. Try having those holidays in Muslim countries.......Yet Muslims get their holidays here in the UK!
> 
> Take your hysteria to Pakistan, and see how you fair!


Why would I want to? I've asked you to stop moaning about your child not getting special treatment in a British school, you're the one trying to make out that you've somehow been victimised and Muslims get special treatment. Tell the teachers to give the Muslim kids extra homework if it makes you feel better.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

samizayn said:


> But ISIS are everywhere.


So were the Taliban in Pakistan, but with precise attacks, raids, jailings and executions of the most hardliners the numbers have been significantly reduced. The west needs to follow a similar model. 

If you have a termite infestation in your house, do you say "oh they're everywhere" and let them go, or do you find ways to exterminate them without destroying or abandoning your house? 

The fact is that there are solutions. The leaders aren't creating a plan to organize and commit resources to really fight the internal home-grown cells. 

It took years in America to neutralize the extremist terrorist factions here which also had memberships in the high thousands - but neutralizing them was a goal that was accomplished because people set out to do it .. not sit there and go "oh man, we can't do nothing". 

Taking out ISIS's heartland is part of a wider goal of extermination.


----------



## Neuron (Jul 31, 2013)

TheLapsedFan said:


> I wonder how many times some of you have gotten off to this news already. Disturbing people itt.


Yeah, don't discuss how this could stopped from happening again.

Ironically, you probably only made this post to give yourself feel good points. No one in this thread gets off to hearing the news about potential terror attacks, I assure you of that.


----------



## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

FasihFranck said:


> And you people hate when you come to UAE that Islam is shove down the throats of foreigners even though it's peaceful and stop making your own rules I have studied English Legal system and there is no such law in the place and stop being anti Muslim Mongerer


I grew up amongst Muslims, liberal British Muslims, they're my closest friends. And yes there is a law about it here's a wiki page for you to familiarise yourself with them. Sexuality, Religion, Race, Disability, colour, ethnicity and nationality are all protected in the UK. Anything hateful said with regards to any of those categories is a crime. You don't know half as much as you think you do. Besides why the fuck would I want to go to the UAE? All the women are covered up, all the men are archaic troglodytes, everything is over priced to fuck and the food sucks. Please, I'll go to a modern country and have a ball on a 3rd of the price.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom


----------



## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

RavishingRickRules said:


> FasihFranck said:
> 
> 
> > And you people hate when you come to UAE that Islam is shove down the throats of foreigners even though it's peaceful and stop making your own rules I have studied English Legal system and there is no such law in the place and stop being anti Muslim Mongerer
> ...


Lol then you don't know a shit about UAE we have every type of women here and they are not restricted and could wear anything.You know Huda Kattan? Stop stereotyping Muslim countries about which you know nothing


----------



## DJ Punk (Sep 1, 2016)

Can we just agree that not all muslims suck, but that the Quran (or however you spell it) is a fucking stupid work of fictitious literature that too much of the world takes way too seriously?


----------



## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

FasihFranck said:


> Lol then you don't know a shit about UAE we have every type of women here and they are not restricted and could wear anything.You know Huda Kattan? Stop stereotyping Muslim countries about which you know nothing


Probably a good thing I don't plan on going there then I guess. Could be worse, I could be planning on studying in a country where I didn't even know I could get arrested for my archaic, twisted views. :lmao


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

FasihFranck said:


> Lol then you don't know a shit about UAE we have every type of women here and they are not restricted and could wear anything.You know Huda Kattan? Stop stereotyping Muslim countries about which you know nothing


Then go to Dubai. Don't pollute the UK with your homophobia.


----------



## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

RavishingRickRules said:


> That's retarded. It's got nothing to do with Pakistan, their entire society is different. Of course they aren't as open and liberal as we are, that's why we're an infinitely better country to live in. We're talking about how "fair" things are in the UK, you can't lose the argument and say "well I wouldn't get them in Pakistan" who gives a fuck? You get them here and that's what you're trying to claim as unfair. Are you also a follower of Britain First on Facebook? You sound like one of their parrots right now.


Woah!

See.......This is why we're fucked! People like you.......Accept it for what it is, join reality, UK reality!

Things are NOT fair in the UK.......We here in England bend over and take it. It's the truth, it has nothing to do with political agenda, it's the truth too many are scared to say!

No, i have no interest in any political party in this country.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Iconoclast said:


> So were the Taliban in Pakistan, but with precise attacks, raids, jailings and executions of the most hardliners the numbers have been significantly reduced. The west needs to follow a similar model.
> 
> If you have a termite infestation in your house, do you say "oh they're everywhere" and let them go, or do you find ways to exterminate them without destroying or abandoning your house?
> 
> ...


I wouldn't imagine the greatest military minds in the world are doing "nothing" about this to be fair to them, as counterterrorism by nature should go unpunished. But there are indeed probably more radical measures they could take. Perhaps being held back by political factors?...


----------



## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Swan said:


> Woah!
> 
> See.......This is why we're fucked! People like you.......Accept it for what it is, join reality, UK reality!
> 
> ...


They are though, you were just told why they are, you get your religious holidays off, they don't get to go to Muslim weddings. You're just believing the bullshit and blaming society because you're unhappy with your own shortcomings in life. I'm from a poor as fuck family, I grew up amongst Muslims, I've seen how much shittier they have it than a white native. I got out of the shit though by working hard, getting a degree from one of the top Universities in the world and getting a highly paid position in a huge company with offices across Europe. You can't blame society because you don't have everything you think you "deserve," you're just perpetuating bullshit propaganda about Muslims getting all these handouts when British people don't, it's a myth. Pure bollocks. I'm not remotely responsible for your issues with this country, I'm too busy living the dream because I made something of myself.


----------



## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

@FasihFranck

This is the UK, I'd like to thank the beautiful city of Manchester for enabling me to show you how homosexuality can be "shoved in your face" in the UK.




























You really don't belong here.


----------



## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

RavishingRickRules said:


> They are though, you were just told why they are, you get your religious holidays off, they don't get to go to Muslim weddings. You're just believing the bullshit and blaming society because you're unhappy with your own shortcomings in life. I'm from a poor as fuck family, I grew up amongst Muslims, I've seen how much shittier they have it than a white native. I got out of the shit though by working hard, getting a degree from one of the top Universities in the world and getting a highly paid position in a huge company with offices across Europe. You can't blame society because you don't have everything you think you "deserve," you're just perpetuating bullshit propaganda about Muslims getting all these handouts when British people don't, it's a myth. Pure bollocks. I'm not remotely responsible for your issues with this country, I'm too busy living the dream because I made something of myself.


Sounds like you need to wake up and (drop the coffee) and smell reality!


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

samizayn said:


> I wouldn't imagine the greatest military minds in the world are doing "nothing" about this to be fair to them, as counterterrorism by nature should go unpunished. But there are indeed probably more radical measures they could take. Perhaps being held back by political factors?...


Well, the issue (I believe) is with the core ideal of western liberty and how it's defined in and of itself. The problem of punishing the terrorism, but not the intent or conspiracy to commit terrorism. I've noticed that at least in Canada when Harper tried to implement anti-Terrorism laws that would allow the Canadian government to legally prosecute terrorists before they actually commit acts of terror, it essentially cost him his government because there was a huge social uproar by Muslims believing that "muslims" would be unfairly targeted and that the law was "racist". 

It's weird because while Muslims claim that terrorists are not muslims, when laws are tried to be passed which are actually designed to target terrorists, Muslims (as you can see with Fasih's rabid hysteria) think that they're the ones being targeted. 

It's ironic and it's become one of the main reasons why western governments are hindered by their own ideals. The narrative needs to change. People need to recognize and ignore the mass hysteria of Muslims knowing that their hysteria around "unfair treatment" is completely misplaced. Pass the terrorism laws and prosecute everyone who's involved in terrorism.

Ironically, Most Muslims in Muslim countries have no such hang ups. They know the difference between Muslim and Muslim terrorist. The only people who don't seem to understand this difference are western Muslims and their fellow western apologists.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Swan said:


> Sounds like you need to wake up and (drop the coffee) and smell reality!


What exactly is this reality you are living?


----------



## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Swan said:


> Sounds like you need to wake up and (drop the coffee) and smell reality!


Sounds like you should've got more of an education than failing your GCSE's.


----------



## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

samizayn said:


> What exactly is this reality you are living?





RavishingRickRules said:


> Sounds like you should've got more of an education than failing your GCSE's.


You just keep defending those who mean us harm!


----------



## Will Thompson (Jan 30, 2017)

Really sad to hear this. Hearts go out to the families of the fallen. Their is such apathy towards life and fellow human beings in today's world and it is painful to realize that. So many innocent lives lost in the name of causes that no real religion or faith would support. 
Life is such a beautiful thing and we (likely) only live once. Why not spend it by being happy and trying to let others be happy too?


----------



## lotsofammo (Dec 30, 2010)

Swan said:


> You just keep defending those who mean us harm!


You can't reason with terrorist or there apologist.


----------



## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Swan said:


> You just keep defending those who mean us harm!


There's that lack of education biting you in the arse again. Learn to read, these posts are in this thread by me.


"I agree 100%, sadly I'm not sure us and Europe will unite on very many things for the forseeable future with the attitude we've had with them in negotiations (and vice versa.) I can see some big retribution coming for this one, we bombed in response to the Paris attacks, we'll almost certainly bomb in response to them coming for our own. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm anti war but this isn't regular war. We need to stop with the half measures, we're either in or we're out. If we're out, stop bombing and try something else. If we're in stop with the bullshit and let's use some real force. This isn't afghanistan with impossible terrain and hidey holes in mountains. I struggle to believe that if the military might of the west was used to it's capability there's no way a bunch of terrorists in a fucking desert are winning that fight."


"I don't even think it'd need to be a "war" as much as an obliteration of them and their allies. I dunno, I'm definitely charged with anger here. I see no reason to put soldiers in front of them to shoot at, we've got so many weapons in the west we could rain armageddon down. I'm sick of the pussyfooting around if we're going to bomb them. Quit the fucking drone strikes and attempts at "precision" and little air strikes(read: tiny insignificant shit that's not done anything whilst we've been doing it) and just fucking get it done if that's how we're going. If we want to be soft about it do something different because the shit we're doing now is NOT working."


I'm just going to place you on ignore now, you've proven time and time again your "knowledge" of this country amounts to whatever the fuck you read in the Sun or the Daily Mail. But feel free to continue to blame Muslims because you feel hard done by. It'd be better if you just worked hard and improved your standing in life.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Iconoclast said:


> Well, the issue (I believe) is with the core ideal of western liberty and how it's defined in and of itself. *The problem of punishing the terrorism, but not the intent or conspiracy to commit terrorism.* I've noticed that at least in Canada when Harper tried to implement anti-Terrorism laws that would allow the Canadian government to legally prosecute terrorists, it essentially cost him his government because there was a huge social uproar by Muslims believing that "muslims" would be unfairly targeted and that the law was "racist".
> 
> It's weird because while Muslims claim that terrorists are not muslims, when laws are tried to be passed which are actually designed to target terrorists, Muslims (as you can see with Fasih's rabid hysteria) think that they're the ones being targeted.
> 
> It's ironic and it's become one of the main reasons why western governments are hindered by their own ideals. The narrative needs to change. People need to recognize and ignore the mass hysteria of Muslims knowing that their hysteria around "unfair treatment" is completely misplaced. Pass the terrorism laws and prosecute everyone who's involved in terrorism.


Not familiar with US or Canadian laws, but conspiracy to commit is a punishable offense in the UK. I was gonna say, I imagine the Pakistani effort was a lot less formal in terms of what is needed to constitute things like intent or conspiracy. On the one hand the rigidity of the law is part of those wonderful flowery ideals, but on the other hand these really are desperate times. I'm hesitant to abandon these ideals because it is exactly these sort of circumstances that we're urged to not give our freedoms up, and eventually that's what a lot of these laws have to do.

So not only are there concerns with "they might take our liberties next" (valid, IMO) but protecting your neighbour is also the kind of ideal that, as you said, people read into when they read about laws like this. Again, valid - because as neutral as these laws are meant to be, there will always be guys like Swan and a few others in here who read more into it than they should.


Swan said:


> You just keep defending those who mean us harm!


Right, so school administrators mean us harm? I know they're a bit anal but really, they're not worth causing this much fuss over.


----------



## The Dazzler (Mar 26, 2007)

RavishingRickRules said:


> I grew up amongst Muslims, I've seen how much shittier they have it than a white native.


How do they have it worse than a white native? All I've seen, growing up in England, is that class is all that matters here.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

lotsofammo said:


> You can't reason with terrorist or there apologist.


I'm really glad you guys have posted in here because there are a significant amount of people that believe that people like you don't exist or are some fringe outlying minority. 

Please tell us more about your opinion on the latest developments, if you'd like.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

samizayn said:


> Not familiar with US or Canadian laws, but conspiracy to commit is a punishable offense in the UK. I was gonna say, I imagine the Pakistani effort was a lot less formal in terms of what is needed to constitute things like intent or conspiracy. On the one hand the rigidity of the law is part of those wonderful flowery ideals, but on the other hand these really are desperate times. I'm hesitant to abandon these ideals because it is exactly these sort of circumstances that we're urged to not give our freedoms up, and eventually that's what a lot of these laws have to do.


You're not giving up any ideals though. You simply have to weigh the worth of the freedom of a criminal or potential criminal versus the lives of the individuals he could've/would've taken. I know this sounds like Minority Report, but unfortunately when it comes to terrorism we need to operate under this assumption otherwise the threat will never go away. 

This is something I've never mentioned on here, but I believe that I need to. Someone in my extended family was picked up from his local mosque on suspicion of becoming radicalized in Pakistan. We haven't heard from him, but pretty much everyone acknowledged (those that I spoke to) that he was a lost cause and deserved it. 

If Muslims really want to help the west, then the western Muslims need to figure out when their own are being radicalized and give them up instead of harboring them or pretending that nothing's happening. 

Peaceful, loving Muslims know exactly when one amongst them is getting radicalized. They simply pretend not to after the fact because they're inherently selfish and want to protect Islam against bad press. It's a matter of priorities. Are you going to give up a terrorist? Or protect the brand image of your religion? 

The west needs to become clearer with their message that this is about terrorism, or terrorist muslims. Recognize the difference and shape the public opinion to understand this difference and encourage Muslims to realize it too. Though I fear that there are groups that want to do this, but they get shouted down because there's political groups and parties that use this debate as a means of winning literal brownie points. It's a mess in the sense that those in power have fucked up priorities too. 

There's no unity in the west. You guys need to unify against terrorism or this will continue to happen.


----------



## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

Ariana spoke out:


Ariana Grande
(@ArianaGrande)
broken. from the bottom of my heart, i am so so sorry. i don't have words.


----------



## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

The Dazzler said:


> How do they have it worse than a white native? All I've seen, growing up in England, is that class is all that matters here.


I'd agree with you about 85-90% on class being a much bigger issue than race, however, there are still some issues. I've seen landlords flat out refuse to rent to Asian people. I've seen first hand the racism levelled at my friends by retailers, police, teachers and the general public. I've seen families broken up during the recession when the parents have lost their jobs and been deported whilst their children who were born here were legally allowed to stay (two of my friends actually pretty much raised their younger brother the last few years.) I've seen families caught up in red tape and bureaucracy struggling to survive whilst the government gets their documentation sorted, waiting for weeks and months to be able to work again because of admin fuck ups. This notion that immigrants and Muslims are getting special treatment benefits wise is ridiculous. I'm sure maybe some refugees do, but the entire system for refugees and asylum seekers is fucked compared to regular legal immigrants. If you're a law abiding, tax paying immigrant who isn't a citizen there are a few more hurdles in getting help than if you were born and raised here. I do agree with your for the most part though, class is a much bigger issue here which is why despite technically being "middle class" now I've grown and made something of myself, I almost always vote in favour of what benefits the working class (as my entire family and all of my childhood friends would consider themselves incredibly lucky to be considered "middle class" tbh.)


----------



## JAROTO (Nov 4, 2011)

I am so sad. The world isn't what used to be... It wasn't perfect, but this is too much. We are entering to a very sad era.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

NotGuilty said:


> Ariana spoke out:
> 
> 
> Ariana Grande
> ...


This shit is making me cry. I'm gonna log out now. 

After being a bystander to more than a 100 bombings since the early 2000's, I still can't stop feeling the pain ...


----------



## Kink_Brawn (Mar 4, 2015)

REMOVE. FUCKING. KEBAB.


----------



## embarassed fan (Sep 26, 2016)

NotGuilty said:


> Ariana spoke out:
> 
> 
> Ariana Grande
> ...


On the bright side, she can write a new song about it.


----------



## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

embarassed fan said:


> On the bright side, she can write a new song about it.


Why don't you just log out.


No surprise but just announced she's suspended the rest of her tour. This was the first of three shows in the UK. Can't blame her, im sure she feels terrible


----------



## markoutsmarkout (Dec 30, 2014)

Remove kebab.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

The Dazzler said:


> How do they have it worse than a white native? All I've seen, growing up in England, is that class is all that matters here.


We won't all share the same experiences, so it is important to recognise each one as valid.


Iconoclast said:


> *You're not giving up any ideals though.* You simply have to weigh the worth of the freedom of a criminal or *potential criminal* versus the lives of the individuals he could've/would've taken. I know this sounds like Minority Report,but unfortunately when it comes to terrorism we need to operate under this assumption otherwise the threat will never go away.
> 
> This is something I've never mentioned on here, but I believe that I need to. Someone in my extended family was picked up from his local mosque on suspicion of becoming radicalized in Pakistan. We haven't heard from him, but pretty much everyone acknowledged (those that I spoke to) that he was a lost cause and deserved it.
> 
> ...


That's exactly it though, that state of 'potential criminality' probably needs to be extended if we're going to capture and arrest these guys at the rate they need to be arrested, but no one would ever stand for it. Not least of all due to the inevitably higher proportion of innocent Muslims that would get caught and (hopefully) released, but because that harrassment might eventually fall upon their own families, too. I think being witness to the micro version of this in the form of things like stop and search for minority teens suspected of gang activity has given people an intolerance to this kind of thing.

I'd not expect anyone to agree with something I wouldn't be okay with if it happened to me. When I think if I would personally accept police harrassment in exchange for catching more terrorists? I'd probably agree to that. Whether I should is something that has me very torn.

I agree. But it's so against human nature to turn your family into the police, there needs to be some kind of community outreach programme, as dumb as that sounds. Even for those who are simply ignorant or in denial.


----------



## lotsofammo (Dec 30, 2010)

samizayn said:


> I'm really glad you guys have posted in here because there are a significant amount of people that believe that people like you don't exist or are some fringe outlying minority.
> 
> Please tell us more about your opinion on the latest developments, if you'd like.


Do you believe you can reason with terrorist and there apologist?


----------



## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

NotGuilty said:


> Ariana spoke out:
> 
> 
> Ariana Grande
> ...


----------



## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

lotsofammo said:


> Do you believe you can reason with terrorist and there apologist?


Well, considering you think somebody who earlier in the thread suggested bringing the full military might of western society down on the terrorist fucks is an apologist, your perspective might not hold much weight. :lmao


----------



## embarassed fan (Sep 26, 2016)

NotGuilty said:


> embarassed fan said:
> 
> 
> > On the bright side, she can write a new song about it.
> ...


She probably did it from the advice of her agent (as a show of respect). Not because she's traumatized or anything.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

samizayn said:


> We won't all share the same experiences, so it is important to recognise each one as valid.
> 
> That's exactly it though, that state of 'potential criminality' probably needs to be extended if we're going to capture and arrest these guys at the rate they need to be arrested, but no one would ever stand for it. Not least of all due to the inevitably higher proportion of innocent Muslims that would get caught and (hopefully) released, but because that harrassment might eventually fall upon their own families, too. I think being witness to the micro version of this in the form of things like stop and search for minority teens suspected of gang activity has given people an intolerance to this kind of thing.
> 
> I'd not expect anyone to agree with something I wouldn't be okay with if it happened to me. When I think if I would personally accept police harrassment in exchange for catching more terrorists? I'd probably agree to that. Whether I should is something that has me very torn.


Yeah - it's inconvenient, but it works. 

I'd rather have a bunch of people whining about harassment than mothers crying over their dead children.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

lotsofammo said:


> Do you believe you can reason with terrorist and there apologist?


No. But I'd like to hear your views! Why do you think that there are terrorists and terrorist apologists in this thread?


Iconoclast said:


> Yeah - it's inconvenient, but it works.
> 
> I'd rather have a bunch of people whining about harassment than mothers crying over their dead children.


Exactly, but how do you reconcile that with a libertarian worldview? You give them a little bit of power and they take a lot. Too much power in anyone's hands = tyranny.


----------



## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Iconoclast said:


> Yeah - it's inconvenient, but it works.
> 
> I'd rather have a bunch of people whining about harassment than mothers crying over their dead children.


As far as I'm concerned, if you give a shit about your home and the people you share it with there should be no reason why you wouldn't comply with police if they had terror concerns. I'm not a terrorist so why should I care if the police question me as one? I've had experiences with the police and being falsely accused of a crime and it all worked out fine, I was honest, calm and compliant and I was treated extremely fairly and released with out charge. It's not like it's submitting to torture, you comply, you're not a terrorist, you go home and probably help the police narrow their search. :shrug


----------



## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

embarassed fan said:


> She probably did it from the advice of her agent (as a show of respect). Not because she's traumatized or anything.



Really? So if your presence drew in 20,000+ people who adored you (knowing a large amount of that is children) to an area and that area was attacked with people dying and being injured you wouldn't feel a thing? 


Like I said just stop talking or log out.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

samizayn said:


> Exactly, but how do you reconcile that with a libertarian worldview? You give them a little bit of power and they take a lot. Too much power in anyone's hands = tyranny.


Libertarianism isn't about lawlessness though. You can pass laws to prevent crimes and that doesn't go against the libertarian ethos. It's about the enforcement of social contracts in order to ensure order. I don't see how the government is gaining more power this way. It's simply empowering the legal system to prevent lawlessness.


----------



## embarassed fan (Sep 26, 2016)

NotGuilty said:


> embarassed fan said:
> 
> 
> > She probably did it from the advice of her agent (as a show of respect). Not because she's traumatized or anything.
> ...


I'm sure Ariana felt something when the bomb went off. I'd worry about my life too but as soon as I'm out of danger, i'm relieved. Anything after is just public relations and maintaining an image. 

Girl like Ariana probably has better things to do.


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## lotsofammo (Dec 30, 2010)

samizayn said:


> No. But I'd like to hear your views! Why do you think that there are terrorists and terrorist apologists in this thread? Never said there were I simply stated you can't reason with terrorists/ apologist.


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

NotGuilty said:


> Really? So if your presence drew in 20,000+ people who adored you (knowing a large amount of that is children) to an area and that area was attacked with people dying and being injured you wouldn't feel a thing?
> 
> 
> Like I said just stop talking or log out.


I doubt it. She is a big supporter of open borders, and has reportedly wished death on her fans previously. So....


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Iconoclast said:


> Libertarianism isn't about lawlessness though. You can pass laws to prevent crimes and that doesn't go against the libertarian ethos. Ot's about the enforcement of social contracts in order to ensure order.


I can't rep you again because I did earlier but this is something I feel strongly about too. I'm a firm believer that the majority of people want to live a nice, ordered and safe existence. I see no reason why we couldn't fund our police force ourselves and maintain a sensible set of laws without the need for an all-powerful government to tell us what they think we should be doing, control how well funded our services are and cut them when they have a pet project to fund or a tax break to offer their friends. I'd rather pay for my services and fund them because I value their work than have my money forcibly taken from me and have very little say in where it goes. I know you're not a fan of universal healthcare but if there's one thing I'm certain of, it's that the British public would give the NHS a lot more funding than our current government does.


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## The Dazzler (Mar 26, 2007)

I'm dreading watching the news tomorrow. I might just avoid it for a while. :frown2:


RavishingRickRules said:


> I've seen landlords flat out refuse to rent to Asian people. I've seen first hand the racism levelled at my friends by retailers, police, teachers and the general public. I've seen families broken up during the recession when the parents have lost their jobs and been deported whilst their children who were born here were legally allowed to stay (two of my friends actually pretty much raised their younger brother the last few years.) I've seen families caught up in red tape and bureaucracy struggling to survive whilst the government gets their documentation sorted, waiting for weeks and months to be able to work again because of admin fuck ups. This notion that immigrants and Muslims are getting special treatment benefits wise is ridiculous. I'm sure maybe some refugees do, but the entire system for refugees and asylum seekers is fucked compared to regular legal immigrants. If you're a law abiding, tax paying immigrant who isn't a citizen there are a few more hurdles in getting help than if you were born and raised here. I do agree with your for the most part though, class is a much bigger issue here which is why despite technically being "middle class" now I've grown and made something of myself, I almost always vote in favour of what benefits the working class (as my entire family and all of my childhood friends would consider themselves incredibly lucky to be considered "middle class" tbh.)


I've seen fucked up stuff happen to white working class people. I wouldn't say one has it worse though. They both have their own problems. I'm working class and I've seen how desperate some working class people are (of all races). I'm lucky in that I had a good family. Most of my childhood friends didn't do well.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Jay Valero said:


> I doubt it. She is a big supporter of open borders, and has reportedly wished death on her fans previously. So....


None of this has anything to do with going through trauma. 

I'm as anti-Islam as you can possibly get, but I still mourn the death of muslims when it happens.


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

The Dazzler said:


> I'm dreading watching the news tomorrow. I might just avoid it for a while. :frown2:
> 
> I've seen fucked up stuff happen to white working class people. I wouldn't say they have it worse though. They have their own problems. I'm working class and I've seen how desperate some working class people are (of all races). I'm lucky in that I had a good family. Most of my childhood friends didn't do well.


It all depends on where you are mate tbh. I grew up white working class too, but where I'm from (Bradford) there are a LOT of Asian people, I may just have been exposed to more of the shit they go through. I've got an odd perspective, I'm technically "White British" born and raised but my family are all from elsewhere. My Dad's half Irish/Jamaican (white not black Jamaican) and my Mum's family are Italian Jews. I've seen both sides of the coin, immigrant and native, and there are a lot more hurdles to jump over as an immigrant, believe me.


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## MillionDollarProns (Feb 10, 2011)

Jay Valero said:


>


I too started to hate Americans after Ariana Grande hated them. She's never steered me wrong. :sk


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

When are music haters going to stop their reign of terror?

Who would do such a thing like bombing a place?


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## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

lotsofammo said:


> Never said there were I simply stated you can't reason with terrorists/ apologist.


You said that in a response to someone who was in a discussion about Muslim school children. It wasn't a statement made in isolation, so what was your thinking behind it?


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Jay Valero said:


> I doubt it. She is a big supporter of open borders, and has reportedly wished death on her fans previously. So....


She is a piece of shit no doubt!


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## Slickback (Jun 17, 2015)

Jay Valero said:


>


She's being a fucking little shit in that video... but neither here nor there. It was a long time ago


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

over 3000 suspected terrorists and 400 people who have gone to syria/iraq to fight for ISIS and come back in the UK

why arent all of them either in prison camps or deported

stripped of their citizenship if necessary

it takes years and years to imprison or deport jihadi propagandists

the west does NOT take this war seriously

not even after september 11th did we take it seriously

until we do jihadi attacks will continue to happen with regularity

i dont see why all muslims shouldn't be allowed in the west period or their countries should be glassed though, i think the west can win with just a bit more finesse than that


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## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

Just watching Fox news and they keep saying the attack happened outside the arena so it could have been a lot worse. What they are not saying is that the attack still happened indoors. The exit in question is joined to Victoria train station via a walkway which is all under roof and indoors. The bomber still got maximum impact just like the sick fuck planned


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## Kiz (Dec 2, 2006)

is everyone in the manchester area on here and their families alright?


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

There's far too many children still being reported missing for me to be comfortable with the 19 dead figure. 

Twitter is flooding with people still looking for their children. I've reported on and seen the reports around over a hundred similar attacks and IIRC this hasn't happened before. 

What the fuck is going on.

Edit: ARE YOU MOTHERFUCKING KIDDING ME. PEOPLE ARE TRENDING PICS AS A HOAX ............. ABSOLUTE FUCKING RETARDS. 

fpalm


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## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

Rowdy Yates said:


> Just watching Fox news and they keep saying the attack happened outside the arena so it could have been a lot worse. What they are not saying is that the attack still happened indoors. The exit in question is joined to Victoria train station via a walkway which is all under roof and indoors. The bomber still got maximum impact just like the sick fuck planned


Events such as concerts/sports have pretty heavy security to get into the actual venue but the entrances/exits are unfortunately always very clustered which make prime targets for these kind of attacks. A lot of big stadiums have train station access underneath in major cities and it's surprising that there hasn't been an increase in security outside the venues in these locations. The sad thing is there isn't really anyway to ever fully fix these issues because at some point SOMEWHERE outside the venues there will always be clusterfuck of people trying to get in or out. Most of these attacks are homemade devices with very wide ranging ingredients which makes it hard to use device locators or K9 units. There really isn't any full proof system that can combat this shit. You find/deport/arrest etc the people you can research behorehand but there will always be someone under the radar who can plan/prepare/execute without being detected until its too late.


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

Iconoclast said:


> There's far too many children still being reported missing for me to be comfortable with the 19 dead figure.
> 
> Twitter is flooding with people still looking for their children. I've reported on and seen the reports around over a hundred similar attacks and IIRC this hasn't happened before.
> 
> ...


Be careful with those. There are a number of fakes out there. The one of the toddler in glasses and I believe a red shirt.sweatshirt in particular.


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## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

Iconoclast said:


> There's far too many children still being reported missing for me to be comfortable with the 19 dead figure.
> 
> Twitter is flooding with people still looking for their children. I've reported on and seen the reports around over a hundred similar attacks and IIRC this hasn't happened before.
> 
> What the fuck is going on.


I think the issue is the fact that a LOT of the attendants were young teens who were dropped off at the event and when the panic ensued and people ran they had no idea what to do and are probably holed up in locations/residences/businesses. I'm sure it's going to take some time to account for everyone, they've been searching the area to make sure there was no more threats so I'd assume they were able to account for the total casualties, doubt the numbers will change much around the 19/59.


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

Iconoclast said:


> None of this has anything to do with going through trauma.
> 
> I'm as anti-Islam as you can possibly get, but I still mourn the death of muslims when it happens.


It absolutely does. A self-absorbed little shit doesn't get to make the booboo face and virtue signal without these past attitudes being part of the narrative.


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## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

There's a video of a police cruiser's dashcam that recorded the flash of the blast in the background. It's pretty far away and there's a building between the blast and the car but it looked pretty big.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

This is terrible, I hate waking up to news like this. RIP to all those who lost their lives. A concert should be a place where people go to have fun and forget about all the real life problems, fuck whoever did this.


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't this also the 4th "anniversary" of the murder of Fusilier Lee Rigby?


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## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

Jay Valero said:


> Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't this also the 4th "anniversary" of the murder of Fusilier Lee Rigby?


Correct, and a U.S official linked tonight's attack to the anniversary..... although its speculation :draper2


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## The Dazzler (Mar 26, 2007)

RavishingRickRules said:


> It all depends on where you are mate tbh. I grew up white working class too, but where I'm from (Bradford) there are a LOT of Asian people, I may just have been exposed to more of the shit they go through. I've got an odd perspective, I'm technically "White British" born and raised but my family are all from elsewhere. My Dad's half Irish/Jamaican (white not black Jamaican) and my Mum's family are Italian Jews. I've seen both sides of the coin, immigrant and native, and there are a lot more hurdles to jump over as an immigrant, believe me.


It was mainly the white part that I disagree with. The problems you list could be faced by white immigrants (Polish for example). I still wouldn't say immigrants have it either better or worse than a white native. They don't all have the same experiences. There are immigrants that do very well in the UK and there are white natives who're in poverty or are homeless. It's unfair to lump them all in together (which is why I disagree with the concept of white privilege in the UK). We seem to agree for the most part.


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## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Uncontrolled immigration led to this. You're going to see more suicide bombers in other countries in Europe like France.










- Vic


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## Jam (Nov 6, 2015)

My cousin was there but she's luckily safe, fucking scum I swear

There's kids there you bastards, sick of these people honestly.


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## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

Jay Valero said:


> Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't this also the 4th "anniversary" of the murder of Fusilier Lee Rigby?


Lee Rigby also was from the Manchester area which more than likely is just coincidence. What is not coincidence though is

Lee Rigby Murder 22 May 2013
Brussels bombings 22 March 2016
Westminster attack 22 March 2017
Manchester attacks 22 May 2017

I will be staying home on the 22nd of the month from now on


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

MMMMD said:


> My cousin was there but she's luckily safe, fucking scum I swear
> 
> *There's kids there you bastards*, sick of these people honestly.


That was doubtless part of the idea, unfortunately.

Happy to hear that your cousin is safe.


Death toll from the attack has now reached 22 with as many as 65 injured. 

Police are declaring that an Improvised Explosive Device was used by a single man who took his own life in the execution of the attack.


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## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

They believe they identified him from footage. No ID yet though.


Grande's apparently in hysterics still over the attack.


and tweet from one of her opening acts:

"_I wish i could say that I am ok, but I am not. Safe? Yes, but heartbroken that loved ones who came to have the night of their lives ended up losing them. They weren't safe. I will never understand this hate! This was supposed to be their safe place. Im so hurt and frustrated I don't know how to handle this and I can't smile and I feel useless, I'm sorry_"
- Victoria Monet


One guy reported being very close to the explosion and that he was blown over 30 feet away. I think the injury number will rise, a lot of people were attended to after being evacuated to the train platforms.


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## embarassed fan (Sep 26, 2016)

NotGuilty said:


> One guy reported being very close to the explosion and that he was blown over 30 feet away. I think the injury number will rise, a lot of people were attended to after being evacuated to the train platforms.


I wonder if he (and others) lost any limbs? It will be interesting for them to see how differently their lives change after this. I will definitely check out some of the survivor stories in the future and see how it has affected them physically and mentally.


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## BigDaveBatista (Aug 23, 2015)

horrendous events in Manchester, 22 dead most young people simply trying to enjoy themselves. all for an imaginary man in the sky 
not all muslims are terrorists, not all Christians are terrorists but enoughs enough
as long as people continue to devote themselves to this ideology some will become radicalised and commit these heinous acts


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## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

It really fucks me off when City officials and others come out with comments like we need to carry on with our daily life's and we need to show these terrorists we wont be beaten. We hear that same bullshit after every terrorist attack and the only thing we show the terrorists is that we are soft as fuck and no matter how many of us you kill and no matter how savage your attacks are we actually wont do a fucking thing. We really are a nation of fucking pussies

The majority of the country will sympathise with the sick fucks and the others who actually want something done about it will be branded racist scum. We need to stop being total pussies and start introducing some severe measures against these animals. Imagine having lost your child to last nights attack and then be told by some dipshit to get on with your life and show the people who did it they cant defeat you when in reality you are totally crushed. Total fucking ignorance of the highest order


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## Piers (Sep 1, 2015)

This is Paris all over again, I have no words... :vincecry

My best thoughts and deepest condolences to the families


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

Rowdy Yates said:


> It really fucks me off when City officials and others come out with comments like we need to carry on with our daily life's and we need to show these terrorists we wont be beaten. We hear that same bullshit after every terrorist attack and the only thing we show the terrorists is that we are soft as fuck and no matter how many of us you kill and no matter how savage your attacks are we actually wont do a fucking thing. We really are a nation of fucking pussies
> 
> The majority of the country will sympathise with the sick fucks and the others who actually want something done about it will be branded racist scum. We need to stop being total pussies and start introducing some severe measures against these animals. Imagine having lost your child to last nights attack and then be told by some dipshit to get on with your life and show the people who did it they cant defeat you when in reality you are totally crushed. Total fucking ignorance of the highest order


Exactly. Act like nothing happened. Just go put a Union Jack overlay on your facebook pic, add things like #notallMuslims #LoveTrumpsHate#ManchesterStrong, and fight terrorism with hugs. Because that works much better than admitting there is a problem and maybe actually identifying that problem.


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## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

Vic Capri said:


> Uncontrolled immigration led to this. You're going to see more suicide bombers in other countries in Europe like France.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Makes sense seeing as pretty much every terrorist attack has been done by home grown terrorists...

Blowing up kids at a concert for your invisible sky daddy, what the hell is wrong with this world. (Assumption this guys is a Muslim)


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## El Dandy (Oct 2, 2007)

Rowdy Yates said:


> It really fucks me off when City officials and others come out with comments like we need to carry on with our daily life's and we need to show these terrorists we wont be beaten. We hear that same bullshit after every terrorist attack and the only thing we show the terrorists is that we are soft as fuck and no matter how many of us you kill and no matter how savage your attacks are we actually wont do a fucking thing. We really are a nation of fucking pussies


Yup; it's literally Einstein's definition of insanity. This will just keep happening again and again and again and they will keep looking the other way.


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## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

Rowdy Yates said:


> It really fucks me off when City officials and others come out with comments like we need to carry on with our daily life's and we need to show these terrorists we wont be beaten. We hear that same bullshit after every terrorist attack and the only thing we show the terrorists is that we are soft as fuck and no matter how many of us you kill and no matter how savage your attacks are we actually wont do a fucking thing. We really are a nation of fucking pussies
> 
> The majority of the country will sympathise with the sick fucks and the others who actually want something done about it will be branded racist scum. We need to stop being total pussies and start introducing some severe measures against these animals. Imagine having lost your child to last nights attack and then be told by some dipshit to get on with your life and show the people who did it they cant defeat you when in reality you are totally crushed. Total fucking ignorance of the highest order


What exactly do you propose we do? Short of a political revolution, a real one, this shit isn’t going to end anytime soon.

I’m not a supporter of uncontrolled immigration but it’s not even close to being the root of the problem – Nor is it even the terrorists themselves – The people who detonate themselves are brainwashed, they’re pawns. It’s the ideology that’s needs to be defeated and people capable of defeating it aren't interested. 

The Western Governments are fully aware which states are funding/supporting ISIS and Al Nusra – The President of the USA was just visiting with one of them. These groups can’t exist without this support but so long as their cause involves strengthening trillion dollar allegiances and weakening regional opponents then what’s a few dead children? 

We’re currently looking to overthrow one of the few secular regimes in the Middle East despite the blatantly obvious alternative being Islamic extremism. You can blame the religion or Muslim's collectively all you want – It’s being exploited as every major Religion has throughout history – The obvious issue is our own governments willingness to preserve and support the most repressive Salafist regimes in bed with these groups. Trump, May, Macron – They will ultimately do fuck all.


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## Buffy The Vampire Slayer (May 31, 2011)

_*My prayers goes out to the family that lost their members during this action. It makes me sick to death that we still live in the world with pure hate. 

And for the ones that said move on with our daily lives can kiss my Slayer butt. This is something you just can't easily move on with, this is real and lives were lost. Peoples families were destroyed. And I am sick to death of hearing the officials and authority saying carry on with our day. You can't eliminate on what happens in lives. That is just going to make people angry and full of hurt plus justice not being served. 

This shit happened in Paris, my city of Orlando and now Manchester. We live in a sick world where attacks and terrorist attacks continues to happens. Every year an attack happens and sadly we can't do anything about it. *_


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## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

Irish Jet said:


> What exactly do you propose we do? Short of a political revolution, a real one, this shit isn’t going to end anytime soon.


First of all these stupid comments of lets carry on and show these terrorists we will not be defeated are a total disgrace, The attitude of these clowns is basically saying if we just ignore it then it will go away, as I said in a earlier post how the fuck can you say to somebody who has just lost a child such a ridiculous thing and not expect to have you're jaw broken. That is a cowardly spineless attitude to have and I do not understand for one second how anybody can think that carrying on like nothing has happened is a solution

I propose at the the very minimum we at least give ourselves a chance. Get a grip of our borders and seriously start monitoring peoples travel patterns. The majority of recent terrorist attackers across Europe have been known to counter terrorism agencies yet still manage to carry out attacks. If the people in power have strong suspicions that certain civilians are potential terrorists then get them deported. fuck human rights, fuck hurting peoples feelings, get them out of the country and do not let them back in. Apparently a few thousand people who are known to have recently visited countries like Syria for a extended period of time have just been allowed back in the country. How is that even possible?. We are asking for trouble allowing that sort of shit to happen.

We have to stop being so politically correct and say it how it is. Every man and his dog know the attacks in Manchester last night were carried out by a Muslim terrorist yet not a single news agency will even suggest it as a possibility, they are so fucking politically correct they are shit scared to even suggest what every body already knows. I am not blaming every Muslim for these attacks but the facts are that nearly all of the recent terrorist attacks across Europe for the last few years have been carried out by Muslims. That is not being racist, It is not stirring up racial tension or hate, It is a fucking undeniable fact. The sooner we start to accept exactly what the problem is the sooner we can start to get a grip of the situation 

We also need to start holding the family's of these fuckers responsible. The 7/7 London attacks were carried out by 4 British born Muslims. Nobody with half a brain cell can honestly believe the family's of these guys had no idea what they were up to. All of the familys should have been brought to justice at the very minimum if not deported but instead of doing that they were offered protection and support, absolutely fucking farcical. We are a fucking soft touch, we talk a good game but ultimately we are spineless, we have let these fucking animals take the piss for far to long and the only response we have is to spout cowardly drivel like carry on as normal and show the terrorists we will not be defeated. In reality we are defeated every single time a innocent person gets murdered . Sadly last night 22 of them paid the price. 

I am not a expert on how to deal with this shit, I have not had training nor am I paid a decent amount of money to deal with this shit but for years and years now we have sat back and had the attitude of lets carry on as normal and just basically ignore the problem, that will make it go away eh. Well it is not going away and it is getting worse and worse. Something has to change and quick


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

My thoughts certainly go out to the families who lost loved ones last night. Innocent people, including kids here for fuck sake, should not be losing their lives like this. People just out, living their lives, not hurting anyone.

How the fuck did the bomber get into the arena with the bomb in the first place?

Fucking horrible world we live in.


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## wwe9391 (Aug 31, 2016)

Absolutely heartbreaking. My thoughts and and prayers are with everyone effected by this horrible act.


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## The Tempest (Feb 27, 2015)

This is really awful to see. Lots of kids who wanted to just have a good time now are dead, jesus shit.

I may get hate for this, I don't give a fuck, but this is what happens when a country is too lenient towards foreigners that don't respect the culture of the community they're visiting/moving into and just allow them to do whatever the fuck they want.

If I go to let's say Afghanistan and respect their religion and culture thus I adapt, then why is a foreigner allowed to not respect and thus not adapt to the country he's moving into? Fuck outta here, if you have no intention to be a civilized human being then you can gladly fuck off and return to your shit hole. This happens all the time over here in Italy, it's time to take a strong position, something like this can't happen.


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## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

I just heard on Sky News that a 23 year old has been arrested in connection with the attack. Police don't know if he acted alone or if this is part of a wider network.


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## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

Rowdy Yates said:


> It really fucks me off when City officials and others come out with comments like we need to carry on with our daily life's and we need to show these terrorists we wont be beaten. We hear that same bullshit after every terrorist attack and the only thing we show the terrorists is that we are soft as fuck and no matter how many of us you kill and no matter how savage your attacks are we actually wont do a fucking thing. We really are a nation of fucking pussies
> 
> The majority of the country will sympathise with the sick fucks and the others who actually want something done about it will be branded racist scum. We need to stop being total pussies and start introducing some severe measures against these animals. Imagine having lost your child to last nights attack and then be told by some dipshit to get on with your life and show the people who did it they cant defeat you when in reality you are totally crushed. Total fucking ignorance of the highest order


Couldn't agree more. What's more sad is there are people who could see his post and have issue with you calling them animals. 

Been listening to news since I've been up for work. Hearing mothers, fathers and others who were there describe what happened is just sad. So many young girls who were probably looking forward to the event all week lost their lives to senseless violence. 

I don't think I'll ever understand why these fucks do what they do. We don't officially know who is responsible but it doesn't matter. Could be white, brown, Muslim, catholic or whatever; just don't understand how a human with a working brain can commit these types of atrocities. Innocent people just living life.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

One of the victims. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/866923930807918595

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/866856410511966208
If even the gored and mutilated bodies of children doesn't provoke the governments to take any hard and definitive actions, then I don't know if anything will at this point.


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## NondescriptWWEfan (May 9, 2017)

There was a horrific noise and people in despair during the Ariana Grande concert.

Then an explosion happened.


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## Narcisse (Nov 24, 2015)

It's still not been confirmed what the motives for this attack were. Fuck the motives. It takes a real coward to target an event that you know will be filled full of kids. I hope he rots in hell.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

After the reaction to the syrian chemical attack compared to the reaction to attack on your own little girls, it's become pretty obvious to me that western men are no longer capable of protecting their own women and children while they rage about the fortunes of children thousands of miles away. It's incredibly hypocritical and what kind of a message does it send to your own children? 

Weak men are the bane of any society against the horde that seeks to destroy them.


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## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

Rowdy Yates said:


> First of all these stupid comments of lets carry on and show these terrorists we will not be defeated are a total disgrace, The attitude of these clowns is basically saying if we just ignore it then it will go away, as I said in a earlier post how the fuck can you say to somebody who has just lost a child such a ridiculous thing and not expect to have you're jaw broken. That is a cowardly spineless attitude to have and I do not understand for one second how anybody can think that carrying on like nothing has happened is a solution
> 
> I propose at the the very minimum we at least give ourselves a chance. Get a grip of our borders and seriously start monitoring peoples travel patterns. The majority of recent terrorist attackers across Europe have been known to counter terrorism agencies yet still manage to carry out attacks. If the people in power have strong suspicions that certain civilians are potential terrorists then get them deported. fuck human rights, fuck hurting peoples feelings, get them out of the country and do not let them back in. Apparently a few thousand people who are known to have recently visited countries like Syria for a extended period of time have just been allowed back in the country. How is that even possible?. We are asking for trouble allowing that sort of shit to happen.
> 
> ...


Fair response and I agree with most of what you say. One thing that’s truly pissed me off as a left leaning voter is that we’ve somehow absorbed the “all migrants welcome” position, which is simply asinine both from a practical and electoral perspective. I would also put national/global security before political correctness but unfortunately our governments will not, at least not how we’d like. Most likely they will again use this as an excuse to infringe on our own freedoms while continuing to flood the country full of migrants fleeing areas we’re actively destabilizing. 

Anyone sympathizing with this cause should be publicly hanged from a fucking lamppost. I’m all for challenging Islam (and all Religion tbh) and especially those who preach it’s most repressive tendencies but instead we have the US president dancing with ISIS funding head choppers and bombing the secular nations. The problem lies there and the cycle will continue so long as we justify these geo-political war games and appease those who have the power over extremists. The foot soldiers are not the problem – The benefactors, the preachers, the ideology that can convince another man to blow up children, blow up himself and genuinely believe he’s doing good is what needs to be destroyed. 

There’s going to be no easy solution to this.


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## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

Brock said:


> My thoughts certainly go out to the families who lost loved ones last night. Innocent people, including kids here for fuck sake, should not be losing their lives like this. People just out, living their lives, not hurting anyone.
> 
> How the fuck did the bomber get into the arena with the bomb in the first place?
> 
> Fucking horrible world we live in.


He was outside in the pick up zone, where the parents wait for their kids to come out. Sick fuck.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

draykorinee said:


> He was outside in the pick up zone, where the parents wait for their kids to come out. Sick fuck.


Fucking sick bastard.

Innocent people just out living their lives, not hurting or bothering nobody. Kids too FFS. I can never get my head around how anyone could even think about doing anything like this.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)




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## 3ku1 (May 23, 2015)

Yeah apparently a 23 year old man has been arrested in connection to the bombing at Manchester. People are suggesting Isis are taking responsiblity. I don't know, need more information to come to light. But this is definately a collective threat. I don't think this was one individual on his own. In any case disgusting world we live in. No way are the people or person connected to this horrendous crime. A Human Being. A Human Being has compassion, a moral compass, humanity, and humility. They are trained to be monsters clearly. I mean kids are in their dieing. And for what? I can't literally think of a reason why anyone would want to kill innocent kids enjoying a concert by their far pop artist. It is sickning. And shit imagine how Ariana Grande feels. Damn the guilt. Logically it's not her fault. But if you were here you coulden't help but feel some what responsible. She said she is broken. I can only imagine.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)




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## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

The cucks at TYT speculated that the fucking IRA did this and make no mention of ISIS or any other Islamic Extremist groups fpalm.


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

We all know who the real victims are going to be portrayed as, Muslims. The media doesn't care about the dead people but how a Religion looks.

What I've noticed in this thread is people from the Right, Left, Center, Religious and Non-Religious saying something needs to be done and you're all 100% correct something needs to be done. 

Something needs to be done about hate preachers, Jihadists returning and collecting welfare, living like they never did anything wrong, the radicalization of these home grown terrorists and the economic migrants who don't care for the culture and instead reinforce this fanatical sentiment.

If the Politicians and preachers who preach tolerance want to keep "Islamophobia" in check then perhaps they should actually do something other than placate the masses with empty words and shaming people. They'll fill the most tolerant of people with burning rage from their inaction and smooching up to a Religion which takes zero responsibility for anything. The Catholic Church got a free pass for Priests fucking kids, how long will Islam get a free pass for it's hate preachers and for the people killed in it's name?

I hate agreeing with the likes of Khan and that French doofus who said in essence Europe will have to get used to terrorism, that it's partially the faults of Europeans and I have to say they're correct. Europe stands for everything these people hate, the Politicians do nothing and enable these actions and no matter how tolerant you try to be these people will hate you, your way of life, your tolerance and your very existence.

YOU will have to live with terrorism.
YOU will have to live in fear from your own Government.
YOU will have to live with the fact your opinions, feelings if heard by the wrong person will cost you your job.
YOU will have to live in a prison of Political Correctness brought to you by people who use their being "offended" as a way to silence and dictate your lives.

These Politicians and rich people hucking for "tolerance" and saying it's "Islamophobic" to say anything? Nope, they'll live in nice areas, going to nice schools, living in security and having the wealth to escape if it gets bad. Living life in safety in oddly places not diverse.

I used to call these people "Leftists" but they bring shame to the Left, they're Merchants of destruction. Destroying everything and everyone in their way of their fantasy utopia, making money off the destruction of your culture and your rights. 

Yes, something needs to be done but not only about terrorism but to these Politicians too, spouting "Unity and Tolerance" while not giving a flying fuck about anyone. Empty words by people who are empty of all ethics, morality and decency.


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## DaRealNugget (Nov 26, 2014)

It's times like these that make it so difficult for me to keep a pacifist stance on issues. My mind calls for peace, but my emotions want me to hang these goatfuckers by their fucking balls and drown them in battery acid.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

DaRealNugget said:


> It's times like these that make it so difficult for me to keep a pacifist stance on issues. My mind calls for peace, but my emotions want me to hang these goatfuckers by their fucking balls and drown them in battery acid.


Ever hear about something called the bloody eagle? We should do that to them.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

So the new narrative is that "It isn't ISIS even if they claim it". This is probably the single most stupid thing I've ever heard. 

At some point critical thought leads to delusions and this is delusional thinking. What sort of misguided pseudo-intellectualism and faux skepticism leads people to thinking that those claiming responsibility of something aren't responsible?

Life isn't a serial killer movie where a fake claimer is some sort of author-created plot twist in order to extend the story. Get a grip people.


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## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Thoughts and prayers to the victims. So much for terrorism not existing anymore. Such scumbags, both the terrorists themselves and the people who try to make believe shit like this can't or won't happen anymore. Idiots. Proven wrong yet again.


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## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

Isis aren't real muslims.


Sarcasm


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## Stipe Tapped (Jun 21, 2013)

Such tragic news to wake up to. Prayers go out to all affected. Those denying the obvious correlation between these events are no longer just uninformed virtue-signalers. They're spineless cowards. Children are dead and these people would prefer to ignore it and do nothing rather than admitting that something needs to be done and run the risk of losing tolerance brownie points.


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

It's terribly sad that violence is so common in the world. All I can do is wish the best to those affected in this incident and hope for the survivors finding peace and joy in life once again. 

There was a thread in Anthing not long ago that asked people if they would give up the internet for 1 million dollars. I'm not sure what the responses were, but I expect many said no because online access to information has become central to modern life. It's been game-changing. Now almost everyone anywhere can, with sometimes extra effort, learn anything their heart desires knowing and make contact with like-minded individuals the world over. Rather than wait for leaders to share minimal information with a predetermined slant, people can take initiative to educate and empower themselves regardless of social standing. An unprecedented worldwide cultural reshaping is in progress. It's wondrous, but it comes with peril. 

Sometimes the knowledge gained and contacts made create anger. People learn and become resentful. They feel helpless to change what they consider wrong. They embrace a cause. They tell their trusted friends. They make contacts with others who share their passion. They become propagandists and spread the word online to an ever increasing circle. It becomes them against the wider society. There have always been folie à deux violent outbursts, subcultures, activists and grass roots rebellions but now there's a tool for taking it on a larger scale, a scale traditional government intelligence gathering and military force isn't able to keep up with. This is going to keep on happening. The places and groups involved will shift every so often - perhaps a religious movement one year, a political faction another time - but there's no stopping the unrest now that everyone is free to gather information, regardless of their capacity to do so in a wise manner, and make their own decisions about what to believe and what motivates them. 

Everyone has motives for their actions that make sense to the person involved even when they make little sense to anyone else. It's flawed logic, but I can understand why an individual becomes a suicide bomber, just I as can understand the flawed logic behind all revenge fantasies that involve demonizing entire groups of people for the actions of a few or simply for not sharing the same values. 

Some people think anyone who seeks an abortion deserves to die.
Some people think anyone who lives in a country that has dropped bombs on their ancestral homeland deserves to die.
Some people think those of a different race from theirs are evil and deserve to die.
Some people who want self-determination and their own land think those who already occupy the space they want deserve to die.
Some people think bullies - from individuals to entire cultures - deserve to die. 
Some people think young girls who admire pop stars are immoral and deserve to die.
Some people think anyone with a lifestyle outside the local cultural norm deserves to die.
Some people think anyone who conducts medical experiments using lab animals deserves to die.
There are millions of reasons people can embrace as personal justification for actions they think are helpful but are not. 

Humans have always been this way and always will be. Nobody is immune to hate when they feel they, or their peers or their life-guiding beliefs of any sort, have been wronged. For instance, I rarely dislike anyone but I think it's probable that I hate my own parents. I can try to talk myself out of it but, deep inside, I know the truth and it's ugly. It wouldn't have justified killing them but I won't pretend I'm unable to rationalize being relived when they died. So yes, I do understand why some people want to bomb all Muslims to death, bar them from their countries and cause them to suffer, just as I understand why others want to bring the misery of living under threat of violent death to places which have conducted or condoned decades of military action at a safe distance. That doesn't mean anti-Islamic witch hunts, instigating terror or murdering your parents are justifiable responses to hate. They are not. 

Unfortunately, we humans are emotional and violent which is worse than the instinctual violence of most other animals. I wish there was a perfect solution but the reality is that there's not. The best we can do is accept human nature as it is because when we attempt to 'fix' the situation by removing threats we end up living in constant peril of being profiled and removed as the next potential threat or of being overthrown by those groups we punish as a whole. Segregating ourselves into safe spaces with our peers - ethnically, religiously, politically, economically, intellectually or otherwise - doesn't work and has never had a lasting positive outcome. However, huddling together with the herd for security while the bravest few lash out violently at whatever makes the easiest target is what many animals do and we're no different so I can't say I expect anything but history repeating itself in the coming decades.


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

GothicBohemian said:


> It's terribly sad that violence is so common in the world. All I can do is wish the best to those affected in this incident and hope for the survivors finding peace and joy in life once again.
> 
> There was a thread in Anthing not long ago that asked people if they would give up the internet for 1 million dollars. I'm not sure what the responses were, but I expect many said no because online access to information has become central to modern life. It's been game-changing. Now almost everyone anywhere can, with sometimes extra effort, learn anything their heart desires knowing and make contact with like-minded individuals the world over. Rather than wait for leaders to share minimal information with a predetermined slant, people can take initiative to educate and empower themselves regardless of social standing. An unprecedented worldwide cultural reshaping is in progress. It's wondrous, but it comes with peril.
> 
> ...


I don't want to be rude as you make some valid points but all of this seems to just say, that we should do nothing because the cat's out of the bag.

Are you suggesting we just accept this and move on and pretend there isn't an issue with a certain Religion that seems to be on a course to try and change the culture of whatever nation it inhabits by any means?

The only thing worse than a bad action is no action. 

If I'm wrong please enlighten me!


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## BulletClubFangirl (Jan 30, 2016)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2760170/Ariana-Grande-said-hoped-fans-f-ing-die.html

Edit: Might be bullshit. Should've looked for a more credible source before posting this, my bad.


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## Dell (Feb 24, 2014)

Feels like we're stuck in a nightmare, these attacks just keep happening, we mourn, life goes on and then it happens again, when will it stop. When will we do something about it. 

Seeing the pics of the victims, 8 year old kids on my twitter feed is just too much. I'm so angry at this world.


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## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

BulletClubFangirl said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2760170/Ariana-Grande-said-hoped-fans-f-ing-die.html
> 
> Edit: Might be bullshit. Should've looked for a more credible source before posting this, my bad.


She denied it when it came out. Its 3 years ago and at worst its just a 21 year old brat speaking in a hyperbolic way, kinda like when they literally have heart attacks. More likely its bullshit.


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## El Dandy (Oct 2, 2007)

GothicBohemian said:


> Segregating ourselves into safe spaces with our peers - ethnically, religiously, politically, economically, intellectually or otherwise - doesn't work and has never had a lasting positive outcome.


at the same time, what we have been doing has been working?

Putting a flag filter on Facebook, doing a candlelight vigil and signing to John Lennon's Imagine all while ushering in more refugees isn't bringing back the thousands who have died because of the religion of peace. 

For me, I think it's absolutely gross that people want to shrug their shoulders and accept 20+ kids being murdered. If these rat fucks murdering youths doesn't get the masses to wake up and smell the Islam, what will?

Govs and people need to stop being afraid of unsavory truths and sort it out.

If you always do what you always did, then you'll always get what you always got... and that seems to be their game plan going forward. So we can expect another attack or two in the summer, more flag filters, more vigils, more John Lennon, more slacktivism, more calling those who think this is bullshit Islamaphobes or bigots or xenophobes like we're the real scumbags here.


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## Dell (Feb 24, 2014)

Please do not be shading Ariana at a time like this. Even if that was true it's years ago, she is constantly mobbed my fans, it's natural to say some shit like that, and you don't mean insults like that literally.

Look at this tweet, heartbreaking


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/759849942957436929


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

I almost teared up after the Ariana Grande tweet. If you can't sense the hurt, trauma and devastation in that tweet, then you're the scumbag imo. 

Kids say stupid shit. Kids have terrible political opinions. 

None of their past shit matters when they've just been bombed. None of it. Everything changes after. I shared some personal stories in cbox yesterday which I won't post here, but I've seen some ugly terrorism related shit in my life and been really close to it. It changes you forever and leaves some very dark memories. You get over them over time, but some of the horror always lingers.

These are children. They deserve our protection. Those wankers who refuse to change their policies when they have the power to do so and were elected to do it are fucking scum.


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## BulletClubFangirl (Jan 30, 2016)

draykorinee said:


> She denied it when it came out. Its 3 years ago and at worst its just a 21 year old brat speaking in a hyperbolic way, kinda like when they literally have heart attacks. More likely its bullshit.


I believe her since there's no proof and I truly regret posting that link but how old does someone have to be before people stop using their age as an excuse? Since when is it normal for a 21 year old adult to act like such a bratty child? That kind of mentality just enables manchilds. What she was accused of saying was extremely callous to fans who supposedly paid a lot of money to see her. I'd attribute that to her being a spoilt celebrity who always gets her own way rather than simply being young and dumb. Again this is all hypothetically speaking since I quickly realised how poor all sources for this rumour are after posting that link.


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## THE HAITCH (May 18, 2016)

Here's the thing.









That is all these leftists and libtards can do.

Sick and tired of this shit.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

BulletClubFangirl said:


> I believe her since there's no proof and I truly regret posting that link but how old does someone have to be before people stop using their age as an excuse? Since when is it normal for a 21 year old adult to act like such a bratty child? That kind of mentality just enables manchilds.


I'm 36. To me a 21 year old has the same maturity level as a 12 year old would have to a 27 year old and so on. I have a 21 year old brother in law and for all his misgivings about his level of maturity and wisdom, I think he's still an idiot (and not because he's actually an idiot, but because he has no life experience whatsoever). 

21 year olds are brats and can be brats and it's perfectly fine. 60 year olds would be bratty to 80 year olds. That's how the aging process works.


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## AyrshireBlue (Dec 16, 2011)

It's heartbreaking but most all of it's just scary now that doing the most simple things like going to a gig is now putting our lives in danger. Children as young as 8 years old being confirmed dead makes me sick to my stomach. I'm very proud of my countries emergency services for their response times, and selfless bravery. When everyone is running away, they are running towards without knowing if an attack is over. 

But more needs to be done to stop these attacks from going ahead. MI6 are fully aware of these extremists but we have to stop waiting for them to carry out an attack before any arrests are made.


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## El Dandy (Oct 2, 2007)

you know it's fucked when @THE HAITCH posts ooc


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Turns out it was another "known person" after all. 

So you know someone is potentially radicalized and do nothing about it ... 

The "conspiracy to commit acts of terror" legislation needs to be strengthened.

http://heavy.com/news/2017/05/salma...ande-concert-attack-suspect-name-photos-isis/



> Salman Abedi, 23, has been identified as the attacker who detonated a suicide bomb at the Manchester Arena at the end of an Ariana Grande concert, killing himself and at least 22 people, while wounding at least 59 others, CBS News reports.
> 
> Abedi is believed to have used an improvised explosive device, police said. ISIS has claimed responsibility for the attack. NBC News also reported Abedi was the bomber, but have said his name could actually be Salmon Ramadan Abedi. The news network also said sources say he is 22, not 23.
> 
> ...


And yet the media is eventually going to win in their narrative that this was just some "lone wolf" that operated on his own. 

*sigh*


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## BulletClubFangirl (Jan 30, 2016)

Iconoclast said:


> I'm 36. To me a 21 year old has the same maturity level as a 12 year old would have to a 27 year old and so on.
> 
> 21 year olds are brats and can be brats and it's perfectly fine. 60 year olds would be bratty to 80 year olds. That's how the aging process works.


I'm not going to sit here and act like I've never done anything dumb in my youth but there should still be basic expectations for behaviour. The brain stops developing at around 25 and you shouldn't need 3-4 decades to realise how shitty it is to openly wish death on people who adore and paid to see you. That's not just bratty, it's also rather callous.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

BulletClubFangirl said:


> I'm not going to sit here and act like I've never done anything dumb in my youth but there should still be basic expectations for behaviour. The brain stops developing at around 25 and you shouldn't need 3-4 decades to realise how shitty it is to openly wish death on people who adore and paid to see you. That's not just bratty, it's also rather callous.


It isn't. Also, don't claim that you regret pushing this story when you're sticking to your guns on your hallucination that this was some real grand and genuine wish on her part where she maliciously really want her fans to die.


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## BulletClubFangirl (Jan 30, 2016)

Iconoclast said:


> It isn't. Also, don't claim that you regret pushing this story when you're sticking to your guns on your hallucination that this was some real grand and genuine wish on her part where she maliciously really want her fans to die.


You're a lot more lenient on young adults than I but that doesn't convince me that openly wishing death on paying fans isn't callous. I regretted posting the link because it was a poor source with no proof. I don't regret addressing the people defending her under the notion that the story was real. In the first line of my first post after posting that link I said that I believed Ariana when another member mentioned that she denied the story. I just hate it when people excuse shitty behaviour by citing someone's age even when they're a grown ass adult. Will people like that grow out of it one day on their own? Probably but you just allow it to go on for longer when you enable them with excuses like that.


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## Dell (Feb 24, 2014)

Why is this thread going so off-topic about irrelevant shit Ariana said years ago? 

Some things are more important don't you think?


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

THE HAITCH said:


> Here's the thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Judging by the Media narrative and by some posts here, not only is this what will happen but we're supposed to do this and just accept it.


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

BulletClubFangirl said:


> I'm not going to sit here and act like I've never done anything dumb in my youth but there should still be basic expectations for behaviour. The brain stops developing at around 25 and you shouldn't need 3-4 decades to realise how shitty it is to openly wish death on people who adore and paid to see you. That's not just bratty, it's also rather callous.





BulletClubFangirl said:


> You're a lot more lenient on young adults than I but that doesn't convince me that openly wishing death on paying fans isn't callous. I regretted posting the link because it was a poor source with no proof. I don't regret addressing the people defending her under the notion that the story was real. In the first line of my first post after posting that link I said that I believed Ariana when another member mentioned that she denied the story. I just hate it when people excuse shitty behaviour by citing someone's age even when they're a grown ass adult. Will people like that grow out of it one day on their own? Probably but you just allow it to go on for longer when you enable them with excuses like that.




In your life you have never said oh i wish you were dead or I wish that person was dead when you were angry or annoyed?

Everyone has done that before, it doesn't mean they actually mean it.


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Iconoclast said:


> Turns out it was another "known person" after all.
> 
> So you know someone is potentially radicalized and do nothing about it ...
> 
> ...


Isn't the whole point of vetting to keep these kinds of people out of the country?

I am not sure how the UK works but if someone is a known person, they should be deported or not let into the country at all. That is the whole point of vetting.

No one on a watch list should be allowed to stay in the country.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

birthday_massacre said:


> Isn't the whole point of vetting to keep these kinds of people out of the country?
> 
> I am not sure how the UK works but if someone is a known person, they should be deported or not let into the country at all. That is the whole point of vetting.
> 
> No one on a watch list should be allowed to stay in the country.


Problem is that "known persons" include locals and citizens as well who are also radicalized. 

There needs to be a shift in focus and change in narrative that preemptive strikes to detain terrorists who are conspiring to commit acts of terror are different and it's ok to treat them differently. 

The conflation with things like harrassment of all muslims has to stop and both sides need to be rational at this point instead of just screaming at each other.


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## Narcisse (Nov 24, 2015)

birthday_massacre said:


> Isn't the whole point of vetting to keep these kinds of people out of the country?
> 
> I am not sure how the UK works but if someone is a known person, they should be deported or not let into the country at all. That is the whole point of vetting.


It's not a case of keeping someone like that "out of the country", he was more than likely born here. Increasing numbers of people who are being radicalised are British born citizens. Immigration is a big problem, but it's only part of the issue. I will be very interested to see what more comes out to explain what identified him as a person of interest, and also to see what the official reaction of the UK Muslim community will be.


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Home grown radicals will be showing up more often. 

The migration does feed into as migrants have committed acts of terror, though using home grown is probably better for their goals as migrants do not know the lay of the land. We'll see in the next few years what happens. It's really hard to tell as the Intelligence Community is keeping wraps up on full terrorist data, tracking down cells etc. There are quite a few attempts every month at an attack and that is telling.


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

So what is the solution to the home grown radicals?


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## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

birthday_massacre said:


> Iconoclast said:
> 
> 
> > Turns out it was another "known person" after all.
> ...


How do you keep out a uk born person? 

Once again a home born terrorist does the act, refugee hate is just an excuse.


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## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

What the fuck is wrong with people? Why would you want to take an innocent persons life? Don't give me any religious bull crap reason. Common sense should take over. Sadly this is not a surprise. Prayers to the families and friends.


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## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

birthday_massacre said:


> So what is the solution to the home grown radicals?


Id start by banning all 'religious' schools.


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

krtgolfing said:


> What the fuck is wrong with people? Why would you want to take an innocent persons life? Don't give me any religious bull crap reason. Common sense should take over. Sadly this is not a surprise. Prayers to the families and friends.


Indoctrination of a religion overtakes common sense sadly. The radicals are brainwashed into believing what they are doing is right.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

The issues is that if intelligence committees start becoming more proactive you run into its own string of problems 

It goes from "they just let things happen" to "this is a police state where they just lock up brown people without trial"

You either have to accept attacks or clamp and give up some of your privacy expectations


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## joesmith (Apr 26, 2017)

So some Muslims blew some shit up and killed a bunch of people it's sad but is anyone surprised here? It's time to take action 


Ariana Grande has admitted she hates America and hates Americans I say she shouldn't be let back in the country love or leave it I say


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

- Banning religious schools is a stupid idea. You're already living in a society built around the principles of force, but you can use non-violent methods like religious school curriculum is vetted and classrooms inspected every once in a while with random and secretly placed teachers. 
- Infiltrate all Muslim spaces, communities and groups (basically the model Americans followed when they infiltrated all violent groups across America to the point where they couldn't take a leak without the security forces knowing about it)
- Encourage Muslims to have an honest dialogue with reformers like Maajid Nawaz, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and others instead of giving a platform to extremists like Linda Sarsour who want reformers dead or gutted. 
- Stop autistically screeching Islamophobe at anyone that criticizes the religion or expresses anger and accept that western folk aren't actually racist for saying things when emotions are running high. 
- Stop using terrorist attacks to portray those who aren't victims (muslims) as victims and ignoring real victims who actually died and find ways to protect them
- Stop giving a platform to Islam apologists. Westerners are sympathetic and empathic folk and understand individual liberty as well as non-violent muslims from violent muslims. 
- Stop chiding locals and start the reformation process amongst Muslims. This can be done because a lot of Muslims within their own communities are fucking fed up of your "Islamophobe" screeching. 

There's plenty that can be done. It just needs doing. No one will scream police state if it's done right and done in a non-violent way as far as surveillance is concerned (and surveillance isn't violent as we all put up cameras around our houses these days and I don't think we're using force). Then the powers need to be expanded to detain conspirators and be transparent about the reasons. Rational people will understand. 

I know the UK agencies are good and trying their best. They stop plenty of attacks. But the problem is that it's not enough to prevent 10 and let one get through ... In this case people have a right to demand perfection and tweaks need to be made (powers through legislation need to be expanded) till perfection is achieved. 

Take America's example. A lot of people love bringing up the fact that Muslims haven't committed "as many" crimes as a justification to shout down any discussion about the evils of Islam, but at the same time, this also means that our security forces and laws are better than Europe's and we're doing a better job of protecting ourselves. Our borders are better protected. Our security forces more empowered and our intelligence actually means something most of the times.

There's both kinds of lessons here. Not just the "not all muslims are evil" crap ... but also the "Hey, maybe Americans are doing something right, what is it?"


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

birthday_massacre said:


> So what is the solution to the home grown radicals?


Other than watching them and monitoring chatter not much. 

It's hard to say when they'll do things as they're wild cards. 

The best defense would be to have people give information on those who would be home grown and intervene.


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Iconoclast said:


> - Banning religious schools is a stupid idea. You're already living in a society built around the principles of force, but you can use non-violent methods like religious school curriculum is vetted and classrooms inspected every once in a while with random and secretly placed teachers.
> - Infiltrate all Muslim spaces, communities and groups (basically the model Americans followed when they infiltrated all violent groups across America to the point where they couldn't take a leak without the security forces knowing about it)
> - Encourage Muslims to have an honest dialogue with reformers like Maajid Nawaz, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and others instead of giving a platform to extremists like Linda Sarsour who want reformers dead or gutted.
> - Stop autistically screeching Islamophobe at anyone that criticizes the religion or expresses anger and accept that western folk aren't actually racist for saying things when emotions are running high.
> ...


That is not what americans say. They use that to show why we dont need to do Trumps Muslim ban. I have never seen anyone use the logic in bold.

Who says that to defend Islam? I just see people using it (the extreme vetting and having no refugee attacks in 40 years) to defend the banning all Muslim refugees.


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## Seb (Jun 13, 2007)

The Tempest said:


> This is really awful to see. Lots of kids who wanted to just have a good time now are dead, jesus shit.
> 
> I may get hate for this, I don't give a fuck, but this is what happens when a country is too lenient towards foreigners that don't respect the culture of the community they're visiting/moving into and just allow them to do whatever the fuck they want.
> 
> If I go to let's say Afghanistan and respect their religion and culture thus I adapt, then why is a foreigner allowed to not respect and thus not adapt to the country he's moving into? Fuck outta here, if you have no intention to be a civilized human being then you can gladly fuck off and return to your shit hole. This happens all the time over here in Italy, it's time to take a strong position, something like this can't happen.





Rowdy Yates said:


> It really fucks me off when City officials and others come out with comments like we need to carry on with our daily life's and we need to show these terrorists we wont be beaten. We hear that same bullshit after every terrorist attack and the only thing we show the terrorists is that we are soft as fuck and no matter how many of us you kill and no matter how savage your attacks are we actually wont do a fucking thing. We really are a nation of fucking pussies
> 
> The majority of the country will sympathise with the sick fucks and the others who actually want something done about it will be branded racist scum. We need to stop being total pussies and start introducing some severe measures against these animals. Imagine having lost your child to last nights attack and then be told by some dipshit to get on with your life and show the people who did it they cant defeat you when in reality you are totally crushed. Total fucking ignorance of the highest order





Miss Sally said:


> We all know who the real victims are going to be portrayed as, Muslims. The media doesn't care about the dead people but how a Religion looks.
> 
> What I've noticed in this thread is people from the Right, Left, Center, Religious and Non-Religious saying something needs to be done and you're all 100% correct something needs to be done.
> 
> ...


Have only skimmed through the last 6 or 7 pages and don't have much to add as these 3 posts are all spot on and sum up my feelings on this.

Feel absolutely awful for the families, can't even imagine what they must be going through, so many lives ended and so many more completely ruined, the attack is even more sinister given that a high percentage of those attending would've been children.

Every time an attack like this happens and sod all changes I feel myself further and further detached from the left wing and Islam apologists.

More must be done. Can we stop worrying about offending people and start worrying more about preemptively protecting our citizens from terrorists? 

This is no slight at our excellent security forces who no doubt prevent dozen more attacks like this from happening every year.

Lest we forget. This should not be swept under the rug and forgotten about in a month while everyone "gets on with it". The family of the 8 year old who was blown up at a music concert certainly won't be able to "keep calm and carry on", nor those relatives of the other 21 dead. Enough is enough.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*Shoutouts to the jackass freelance writer who made a joke about 20 people dying. Make sure you send all kinds of venom his way and he NEVER works again.*


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## Dell (Feb 24, 2014)

Legit BOSS said:


> *Shoutouts to the jackass freelance writer who made a joke about 20 people dying. Make sure you send all kinds of venom his way and he NEVER works again.*


I sent him lots of abuse last night. Already a few organisations tweeted they were not associated with him anymore and deleted articles of his from their sites. He's finished. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/866832520251355136


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## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

My condolences and prayers to the families impacted especially those who lost loved ones. I can't imagine taking your children to a show and someone tries to kill you.

Only have a few minutes and trust me I will have more to say later but for now I send my prayers.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Every single time. 

Fucking fake virtue signaling retards don't even know their Sikhs from Muslims but they have to push their retarded narrative. 

Poor Sikhs. I really feel bad for the way they're always lumped in the Muslims. They really haven't done anything to deserve such indignity.


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Iconoclast said:


> Every single time.
> 
> Fucking fake virtue signaling retards don't even know their Sikhs from Muslims but they have to push their retarded narrative.
> 
> Poor Sikhs. I really feel bad for the way they're always lumped in the Muslims. They really haven't done anything to deserve such indignity.


They should have just said Taxi Drivers.... no need to put what he is. So dumb.


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## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

Haven't really been able to process this properly at all. I live in the city centre, regularly use the train station that it happened above, go to the arena a couple of times a year. I thought I was becoming desensitized to all these attacks around the world that keep occurring but then it happened to 'my' city. It killed children. I know Syrian kids have died but I'm being honest when I say this but I care more about these kids. Three of my friends took their daughters last night to that concert; thankfully they were safe but families were destroyed last night. I've always been quite easy going with serious matters, it's my weird way of coping with them but this has really affected me to the point where I just can't think straight. I echo the thoughts of those who don't appreciate the 'keep calm and carry on' mantra, there's been all sorts of other shit going on about the city today - evacuations everywhere. I can't keep calm when I am genuinely terrified. I'm not the sort of person who is easily intimidated or scared but I am today. If this answer is close the borders then do it, deport anyone involved in a serious crime or the planning of a serious crime who wasn't born here, not arsed what country they're from, skin colour, whatever. Fuck human rights, those kids went to a concert to see an artist they loved and some of them lost their lives, human rights don't exist in situations like this.

There can't be any room for leniency. London 7/7 should have been the last time anything like this was allowed to happen. Either the complete halt of immigration or the implementation of a system like Australia have is more than necessary. There will obviously be those planning to conspire to terrorism already living in this country, it's then the job of our homeland security to do what they can and then remove them from this country too, at even the first hint of any idea being put into place. We have to be strict. I've not really thought whilst typing any of this, i've just wrote, whether i'll regret any of it I doubt it but it's just how I'm feeling right now. Fear, anger, i'm not sure which is the over riding thought.

Football, music, food, drink, nightlife. I love many things about this city but not much will compare to the people you meet here. Friendly, funny and they'll do anything for anyone. This city will come together and help out all those affected. I just cannot deal with these backwards, inbred, extremist mongs who want to destroy innocent lives. Kids not coming home from a concert, it's fucking bullshit.


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## skypod (Nov 13, 2014)

joesmith said:


> Ariana Grande has admitted she hates America and hates Americans I say she shouldn't be let back in the country love or leave it I say



What an intelligent, thoughtful view.

This is literally why Americans come across as "MUH PATRIOTISM" to the rest of the world.

Was there not someone pages back saying she probably didn't care about children dying at her concert because she licked a couple of donuts last year or something? Because those two things add up.

Nothing more cliche than basement dwellers holding celebrities to some ridiculous standard and jumping all over them when they break it. Truly a sad lonely mindset to have.


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

https://www.facebook.com/riaz.khan.399826/posts/10155391470219973

Posting this because I know a lot of people think there aren't any "decent" Muslims in the UK. Note his British accent, and his upset at the situation. That's why I have no problems with Muslims who want to come and "be" British. If they don't want to become one of us, feel those pains with us and fight on our side, they're probably where they need to stay. I'm another one who has been personally touched by this attack, my cousin and her young daughter were there (I didn't even know until I found out they were safe,) 3 of my colleagues were also there. We need to do better in future. Love goes to all who're suffering on this dark day.


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Iconoclast said:


> Every single time.
> 
> Fucking fake virtue signaling retards don't even know their Sikhs from Muslims but they have to push their retarded narrative.
> 
> Poor Sikhs. I really feel bad for the way they're always lumped in the Muslims. They really haven't done anything to deserve such indignity.



You know what's hilarious and sad about this? That people who pride themselves on diversity, tolerance and "trying to find the good in everyone" don't know a Sikh from a fucking Muslim.

These people who babble about diversity and virtue signal have zero clue about the people they're supposedly championing for!

How the fuck can you label yourself a champion of tolerance when you know fuck all about who you're "fighting" for?

Also way to go ******* piggybacking on someone doing a good deed and trying to credit Muslims with it because "NOT ALL MUSLIMS!!!".

It's shit like this that makes people even more angry.


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## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

RavishingRickRules said:


> https://www.facebook.com/riaz.khan.399826/posts/10155391470219973
> 
> Posting this because I know a lot of people think there aren't any "decent" Muslims in the UK. Note his British accent, and his upset at the situation. That's why I have no problems with Muslims who want to come and "be" British. If they don't want to become one of us, feel those pains with us and fight on our side, they're probably where they need to stay. I'm another one who has been personally touched by this attack, my cousin and her young daughter were there (I didn't even know until I found out they were safe,) 3 of my colleagues were also there. We need to do better in future. Love goes to all who're suffering on this dark day.


Don't you think the fact you 'have' to post that is quite telling?


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## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

Iconoclast said:


> Every single time.
> 
> Fucking fake virtue signaling retards don't even know their Sikhs from Muslims but they have to push their retarded narrative.
> 
> Poor Sikhs. I really feel bad for the way they're always lumped in the Muslims. They really haven't done anything to deserve such indignity.


Drivers is the key word there.Throw your pathetic Muslim hatred aside and what do you mean that all Muslims are terrorists? What fuck are you on? And Muslims have no dignity? and now don't bring that fuckery about homosexuals again on this thread you dick-sucking coward


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## FasihFranck (Jan 26, 2017)

Ok so what I get is that people here want Muslims to leave Western world and return to their original countries.Right,I agree but what about people in Muslim countries like Syria,Afghanistan,Iraq,Pakistan etc should they feel the wrath of these pathetic lifeless motherfuckin creatures which were created and handpicked by the US? And now don't act like ignorants that you don't care or know if Americans created these terrorists organisations or not because it is quite evident that America is the pioneer of these organisations because these countries before 1990s were safe and liberal


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

FasihFranck said:


> Drivers is the key word there.Throw your pathetic Muslim hatred aside and what do you mean that all Muslims are terrorists? What fuck are you on? And Muslims have no dignity? and now don't bring that fuckery about homosexuals again on this thread you dick-sucking coward


Oh, shut up you dalmatian eating goat fucker. You're a troll account and anybody with two brain cells to rub together knows it.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

Miss Sally said:


> You know what's hilarious and sad about this? That people who pride themselves on diversity, tolerance and "trying to find the good in everyone" don't know a Sikh from a fucking Muslim.
> 
> These people who babble about diversity and virtue signal have zero clue about the people they're supposedly championing for!
> 
> ...


What do you expect. Most of these virtue signalers live far away from minorities in the first place.


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## wAnxTa (Jan 3, 2012)

I like how this thread will cross 50+ pages easy, but the Times Square incident reporting thread died instantly. Just because the latter didn't have a Muslim involved.

One chance to bash Muslims and everyone starts drooling on this website. But who am I to defend myself, it's literally me against the world here. There's no way I stand a chance to defend myself against a thousand people vouching against me.


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

Iconoclast said:


> Every single time.
> 
> Fucking fake virtue signaling retards don't even know their Sikhs from Muslims but they have to push their retarded narrative.
> 
> Poor Sikhs. I really feel bad for the way they're always lumped in the Muslims. They really haven't done anything to deserve such indignity.


Getting misidentified as Muslims all the time like that must make them sikh. :no: 

I'll see myself out.


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## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

The more coverage i watch on this horrific, preventable catastrophe the more angry i become with all the 'lets not blame Muslims', 'some Muslims are good people' etc etc etc......Fuck off, just fuck right off with that shit, lets focus on the matter at hand here for fuck sake. The murdered children's families and friends will be haunted with this for the rest of their lives. The survivors will be haunted and traumatised with this for the rest of their lives. Many of the children who attended that concert will never be able to lead normal lives, they will live in fear and panic on daily basis! Lets focus on trying to help the victims, tell their stories and fight for them!

That Taxi driver tweet or whatever the fuck it is makes me sick, who gives a fuck? SO HE SHOULD FUCKING HELP, WHY DOES HE GET SPECIAL FUCKING TREATMENT? WHAT ABOUT ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO HELPED? The irony is the guy isn't even Muslim!

And please don't post things like 'oh Muslims care too'......SO THEY FUCKING SHOULD! SHOULDN'T NEED POINTING OUT!! But the fact it does _need_ pointing out is most telling of all.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

Whats more sickening is that some people are more concerned with speech online then the people who died.


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## El Dandy (Oct 2, 2007)

wAnxTa said:


> I like how this thread will cross 50+ pages easy, but the Times Square incident reporting thread died instantly. Just because the latter didn't have a Muslim involved.


Agreed there's totally not a difference between some guy who was under the influence driving his Honda Civic into a crowd killing 1 and a man strapping a nail bomb to his chest, going to a teen's concert and killing nearly 2-dozen (not that this should even be about measuring 2 senseless tragedies).

I guess both men were under the influence, tho. 

Richard Rojas was under the influence of synthetic marijuana; Salman Abedi was under the influence of the religion of peace.


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## joesmith (Apr 26, 2017)

skypod said:


> What an intelligent, thoughtful view.
> 
> This is literally why Americans come across as "MUH PATRIOTISM" to the rest of the world.
> 
> ...


Fuck you bitch, she said she hates American and she said she hates Americans

If she says she hates the country then obviously she's not good for the country and she should be removed from it asap , I would have her sent to Iraq to see her if she likes it there better


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/23/mancu...ut-down-edl-protesters-6655982/#ixzz4hutRIjFz

I fucking LOVE being British.


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## BigDaveBatista (Aug 23, 2015)

wAnxTa said:


> I like how this thread will cross 50+ pages easy, but the Times Square incident reporting thread died instantly. Just because the latter didn't have a Muslim involved.
> 
> One chance to bash Muslims and everyone starts drooling on this website. But who am I to defend myself, it's literally me against the world here. There's no way I stand a chance to defend myself against a thousand people vouching against me.


its not 1 chance, nor is it 2 or 3. there is literally muslim founded terrorism in play every day on this planet, it gets more coverage when its in the west because it's closer to home 

this isnt a 1 off thing, its a series of attacks designed to disrupt a way of life that's considerably better than life in the middle east 
you may think that's racist but it is what it is 

i mean no offence to you if you are a muslim btw


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## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

RavishingRickRules said:


> http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/23/mancu...ut-down-edl-protesters-6655982/#ixzz4hutRIjFz
> 
> I fucking LOVE being British.


http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/23/i-had...-pulled-nails-out-of-childrens-faces-6657008/

Much more inspiring story!


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## Neuron (Jul 31, 2013)

virus21 said:


> Whats more sickening is that some people are more concerned with speech online then the people who died.


The cycle is eternal. 

Muslim attack happens.

People point out problems.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867064387726651393
Get called meanies by liberals.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867070946733154305
Police waste time protecting people's feelings.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867062425706790913
And we wait for the next one.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

Neuron said:


> The cycle is eternal.
> 
> Muslim attack happens.
> 
> ...


Wonder what they would be thinking when on of these assholes gets a dirty bomb in one of their cities.


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## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

wAnxTa said:


> I like how this thread will cross 50+ pages easy, but the Times Square incident reporting thread died instantly. Just because the latter didn't have a Muslim involved.
> 
> One chance to bash Muslims and everyone starts drooling on this website. But who am I to defend myself, it's literally me against the world here. There's no way I stand a chance to defend myself against a thousand people vouching against me.


:beckywhat

They aren't remotely similar.


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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

RavishingRickRules said:


> http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/23/mancu...ut-down-edl-protesters-6655982/#ixzz4hutRIjFz
> 
> I fucking LOVE being British.





Neuron said:


> The cycle is eternal.
> 
> Muslim attack happens.
> 
> ...


This is peak cuckery we are seeing in the UK. Sad.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

CamillePunk said:


> This is peak cuckery we are seeing in the UK. Sad.


And its shit like this that makes me increasingly more apathetic about this happening in Europe


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

FasihFranck said:


> Drivers is the key word there.Throw your pathetic Muslim hatred aside and what do you mean that all Muslims are terrorists? What fuck are you on? And Muslims have no dignity? *and now don't bring that fuckery about homosexuals again on this thread you dick-sucking coward*


Thank you for justifying why Muslims like you should be banned from entering all wetern countries to protect homosexuals.

You sound like a downright future terrorist. Please stay in your own country. I really wish there was a way to find out who this guy is and have him reported to british intelligence so that they can take the necessary steps to keep him out of the country.

I actually would like to have my dick sucked by a hot, submissive man


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

GothicBohemian said:


> Segregating ourselves into safe spaces with our peers - ethnically, religiously, politically, economically, intellectually or otherwise - doesn't work and has never had a lasting positive outcome.


And yet such actions have, throughout the overwhelming majority of human history, been nothing less than crucial for man entire, in general, to experience the fleeting condition of relative peace. Were Western nations decentralized even to the extent that those United States of America were for a few short generations, perhaps the strife we see would be greatly reduced for it is partly the "propositional nationalism" as spread by the U.S., British, French, German and other regimes which by its particular nature, not unlike that of the Soviet Union, reduces hosts of citizens from all economic and intellectual strata to mere political dissidents.

When it comes to tribes coexisting, so long as Islam remains a religion built upon submission, little indeed shall change. Ultimately the great struggle of humanity is, in spite of the past five hundred years of rootless Enlightenment-inspired solipsism, broken down between vying groups, no matter how unpleasant this historical record may be to glance upon. The U.S. propositional nation regime, like that of the French Jacobins or Russian Bolsheviks, declares itself the pinnacle of democratism and tolerance, and yet human action remains largely defined within the propositional nation's borders by matters of who and where: map upon map of ethnic and racial breakdowns of cities as diverse and disparate as San Francisco and Los Angeles and Chicago and Atlanta displays how racial and ethnic groups tend to cling to their own, no matter how much conditioning against the same persists. 

Islamic enclaves are, for the most part, remarkably self-contained. The situation is considerably worse in France than in Great Britain but the issue at hand continues within the latter, as it does in the U.S. or wherever Muslims go in large numbers. Muslims tend to be highly conservative in their worldview, prioritize family, and on occasion, among their more honest intellectuals, will admit that they enjoy the concept of watching their minority grow at a pace that greatly exceeds others in these nations: I happen to know several Muslim scholars including Dr. Khalid Siddiqui of Illinois as well as several of the San Francisco Bay Area whose names I shall not mention here, and they all admit openly to pining for the day on which _sharia_ is imposed throughout large, concentrated areas of the United States, and all but one of them readily admitted that they greatly admired Osama bin Laden, in the cases of several only six or eight months following the September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon. (Despite their viewpoints I consider a couple of these gentlemen friends and _vice versa_; for one thing their honesty is to be treasured.) 

We may want to virtue-signal on behalf of the Renaissance and Enlightenment philosophies which pervade the limited scope of our memory-addled Western mindset, which seems to only accept the past of the last several centuries, but nations whose scar tissue has been continually replaced and added on to by repeated incursions of "the other," the Muslims, are becoming less and less inclined to accept this thin gruel going forward. From the Israelis to the Kenyans, walls and fences and redoubts have been and are being constructed. Disparate sorts of Muslims view one another with deeply suspicious prejudices as the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the Islamic Republic of Iran vie for Middle Eastern supremacy, one also having a wall built against hordes of people they loathe and fear, the other endeavoring to take the mantle of Islamism going forward as geopolitical force with which to be reckoned. 

Nevertheless I enjoyed reading your post and contributing to the thread with such heartiness.


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## Jam (Nov 6, 2015)

Cousin got out safe but her friend is badly hurt.. god I hate shit like this



FasihFranck said:


> Drivers is the key word there.Throw your pathetic Muslim hatred aside and what do you mean that all Muslims are terrorists? What fuck are you on? And Muslims have no dignity? and now don't bring that fuckery about homosexuals again on this thread you dick-sucking coward


Get the fuck out the thread


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

wAnxTa said:


> I like how this thread will cross 50+ pages easy, but the Times Square incident reporting thread died instantly. Just because the latter didn't have a Muslim involved.
> 
> One chance to bash Muslims and everyone starts drooling on this website. But who am I to defend myself, it's literally me against the world here. There's no way I stand a chance to defend myself against a thousand people vouching against me.


Yes, the majority of us in the west are more concerned about being blown up by an indoctrinated member of a death cult than we are about getting run over by some dumbass pothead.


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## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

@InUtero @Iconoclast @CamillePunk @DesolationRow @Rowdy Yates @virus21; @Vic Capri @Swan @AryaDark @MrMister; @RavishingRickRules @Miss Sally @birthday_massacre @draykorinee @The Dazzler @Seb @MMMMD; @El Dandy @Neuron @BigDaveBatista @Vader @skypod @Goku;


Before I make this post I want to make it clear that obviously not all the information has come out yet about the killer so we have no idea whether he actually acted alone or part of a network. That being said, I think a lot of what I am about say would be my current views on this issue regardless of the fact. I don't expect everyone to agree with me but with what is a very turbulent time I am throwing ideas out on how this can be possibly dealt with.

I will be completely honest and say that this recent attack as well as what has happened in Westminster has changed my views on this subject somewhat. First of all, it must not be forgotten that in the past and still to this day the intelligence agencies here in the UK do a wonderful job and have foiled literally hundreds of attacks. Eventually one or two major ones were going to come through the cracks and really what seems to be the main issue here is the government agencies who have essentially determined that certain extremists were not a threat when clearly they were still radicalized. In both recent UK terrorist attacks, the government knew exactly who they were but did not monitor them properly like they have done several other Islamist's. I can't remember where I read it but someone wrote that whilst the intelligence agencies do a fantastic job, when you stop 9 out of 10 potential attacks and one still gets through then it still really affects not only the people hurt and their families but the whole country and therefore it is not outrageous to demand perfection. In this instance I agree, we're not talking about economics or tax or trade or education or healthcare or any other litany of issues here, we're talking about people being murdered by political and religious terrorists.

I can't pretend I know all the answers, particularly in terms of the homegrown and home grooming shall we say of British Islamic Terrorists but what I can advocate for are what I think are some common sense steps forward. Before I would often state that we should properly vet the migrants coming in before we determine whether or not they are refugees and should be deemed to come into the country just crossing the border without going through the normal legal procedure. I resisted some of the more "extreme" arguments surrounding immigration and the migrant crisis in general as I did not think they were necessary. My mind has been changed on that issue.

I believe now wholeheartedly that we should impose a full halt on immigration from countries we know that harbor Jiihadist and Islamic terrorist groups. Now I already know this is going to rile up and anger some of the more liberal posters here, particularly as it will harbour back to the attempted immigration executive order by Trump. But I believe here in the UK, we're facing an entirely different situation than the US is. We're right on top of the migrant crisis and have seen neighbouring countries fall victim to terrorism countless of times. France, Germany, Belgium, Sweden....these are all countries that have either felt terrorism or had attempted terrorist attacks multiple times in their countries and whilst we have been relatively lucky compared to those countries, we are now starting to feel the full effects and it may continue to get worse. We don't have an entire ocean space between us and the Middle East, this is very real for us and could have been much worse had the Conservative government not stood their ground and said no to the demands from the EU to follow in the footsteps of France and Germany.

_But L-DOPA, if the perpetrator was homegrown and if he does have no links to ISIS or outside forces, why would the halt be necessary?_

Well of course, the halt by itself will not solve this issue and I'll have some more ideas later on but we must not forget that ISIS fighters who were British and went to fight for them in Syria have been let back into the country, literally hundreds of them and most have not been jailed (we'll get to jailing in a moment). If these people can come and go as they please, then it produces a real problem that must be stopped. We cannot know for sure that we do not have ISIS fighers or any other radical Islamists in our shores right at this very moment whether British or not. With the EU continuing to push for more migrants to come across to European soil *despite* the very real problems that have come with the policy, I do not think it can be left for chance. Not any longer. The reason why I say countries that are harboring terrorist groups that we know is because those countries are the ones that are most likely to have Jihadists coming from them into Europe and the UK itself, those are the places we need to be watching and halting immigration from until we figure things out.

*Addressing Religious Schools*

Someone brought up the point of banning religious schools and forgive me because I can't remember who off the top of my head. As an atheist, I used to also think that religious schools should be banned (not for reasons of terrorism mind you) back in my more liberal days. But then as I slowly turned towards more individualism and liberty based ideas, I realized that was a bad idea and I still stand by that. The problem with banning religious schools is in effect you end up stopping innocent people from choosing for their children where they want and how they want to educate their children (with obvious exceptions) and by banning all religious schools, you essentially punish those religious schools who have done nothing wrong. Christians, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists etc. should not be punished and be taken away their right to having schools founded upon their religion simply because of Radical Islam. Nor should moderate religious schools based around Islam be banned simply because of their more radical counterparts. Not only that but you create more of a victim complex for Muslims and divide people up further. And I'm not talking about the fake diversity where morons virtue signal about how we shouldn't be Islamophobic, I'm talking about real division here.

What we should do is further vet the curriculum's of those schools as well as inspections. This isn't too far from what happens now so it isn't a radical change. What _*would*_ be a radical change is to dismantle and ban any Islamic school that harbours or teaches extremism. Promoting violence against other people for your religious or political beliefs is not protected under free speech (very different from the widely known hate speech laws) and therefore I have no problem with cracking down on these potential schools. Which leads me to my next point.....

*Extremist Mosques.*

I don't know how controversial this is going to be but I've done some thinking about this. We already know that there are Mosques in places like Luton that are preaching extremist/wahhabist ideology which in it's most extreme form preaches death towards the heathens and apostates of Islam. They essentially justify the killing of the infidels and therefore promote Islamic Extremism. We know this, the government knows even more about this than we do and yet nothing has been done. Government or police haven't gotten involved and the Muslim community have remained rather silent. It's time we start cracking down on these places and shutting them down. Now I understand the slippery slope this could cause and believe you me, it's not a perfect solution which is why a lot more needs to be done to challenge the *ideas* these places promote but I believe that Mosques which are known to preach the most fundamental and violent form of Wahhabism in the UK should be shut down and banned. This isn't about silencing Muslims, this isn't about stopping Islam as a religion being practiced in the UK, the majority of them are completely normal. I'm talking about the ones which are helping to breed the type of actions we have seen in London and Manchester. These need to be tackled.

*Support reformist groups like Quilliam, Challenge the Islamic Fundamentalists.*

http://www.quilliaminternational.com/circle/

I've put what I think is a very important link but certainly not the only one regarding this matter. In the long run, whilst we can help prevent further extremism by taking the steps to crack down on it and also stop it from being imported here in the UK, we can't defeat the ideology without challenging the ideas. Which leads to point #1 :

*Stop associating criticism of Islam with Islamophobia or Bigotry*

It is a religion, a set of ideas that is not above scrutiny or criticism. This will trigger some people but I will say it clearly: Islamophobia doesn't exist. Being critical of an ideology which in it's most extreme form is killing thousands of people a year through violent acts is not irrational. With any other religion we would rightly condemn it and challenge the ideas but in this case we are afraid to do so. *It has to stop.* Here is a great video with Maajid Nawaz where starting around 5:20, he and Rubin talk about Islamophobia and how it used to silence people criticizing or satirizing Islam, in the same way that has happened in the past with other religions.






Overall, we need to obviously challenge the most fundamentally Conservative/Extremist interpretations of Islam and we also need to support organizations like Quilliam who work to tackle Islamism and Jihadism within the Muslim community in the UK. Stop appeasing and trying to please all Muslims by portraying them as the victims when anyone with a brain would never blame all Muslims for the atrocities that have happened. We need to stop treating them like babies and start arguing with facts. Period.

*Does Prison work?*

There are of course calls for those with links to terrorist groups to be given jail time and locked away. At first theory and glance this is a good idea, however it is bringing about a new problem which is prisoners being radicalized by Islamists. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32194671



> Staff shortages are making it harder to tackle Islamic radicalisation in England's prisons, the former head of the National Counter Terrorism Security Office has warned.
> Chris Phillips said shortages meant extremists were not properly monitored, enabling them to recruit others.
> A parliamentary report has said jail safety was compromised by staff cuts.
> Justice Secretary Chris Grayling rejected the claim and said a "very careful watch" was kept on the issue.
> ...


This is obviously a big problem and recently the government have set out a taskforce to deal with this, consulting more than 100 counter terrorist experts on how to deal with the problem. There has been talk about interventions in prisons but I am skeptical about how well this would work. Clearly, it would have to be tried out before any conclusions can be made but I am starting to consider whether prison is a good option if it is producing more radical Islamists.

I think if they are going to be put in prison they should be separated from the rest of the prison population as much as possible which clearly hasn't always happened. I'm of course not talking about some Guantanamo Bay situation but as a way as to not further increase radicalization. But perhaps we should also talk about the dreaded D word: *Deportation.* 

Now of course for British born citizens who did not go to fight for ISIS against the west, this isn't an option. But for those who either are guests in this country or who left the UK to join terrorist groups abroad? I'd say that's an easy decision. Of course this might trigger some responses from both the regressive left and Muslim communities in response (which I'd say why? But there you go) but to be fair, I think hurting a few people's feelings is a worthy price to pay for getting rid of some real deplorable scum away from Europe :trump.

*The Hardest Question Of All...*

Which leads me to the hardest question of all for me personally considering my political beliefs. This is something I've been thinking about heavily since ISIS were first potentially linked to the attack. Now I know the jury is still out on that and there are conflicting reports.

To give you a brief synopsis so you understand where I am coming from, I am staunch non-interventionist. With the exception of the initial response to 9/11, I have been against every intervention in the Middle East. Every Secular Dictator that has been toppled in the Middle East has made the situation much worse: chaos, destabilization, growth in radical terrorism particularly with ISIS growing their territory and of course a whole range of atrocities killing hundreds of thousands of people. I am still very much against what is going on the Middle East, the continuation of the civil war in Syria has been a disaster and the actions towards Yemen for example have been horrific.

But now with two attacks in the space of a few months and the potential of ISIS or another outside terrorist group being involved, I think we should really debate on whether we should declare war on ISIS. Whilst I do believe in the long term, the only way that we will tackle this problem is to take on the ideas themselves, those ideas come from somewhere and with the migrant crisis at large and with dozens of attacks already that has happened it is clear that ISIS pose a real threat. A lot of that is our own governments fault but that doesn't mean innocent people deserve to suffer and die.

I really don't know the answer to this question or whether or not I'm fully on board with the idea but the fervor of being against combating ISIS due to the fear of causing more problems in the long run due to badly thought out foreign policy ideas has ended with these two recent attacks, especially this one. I may be a non-interventionist but I'm not a pacifist. And so the idea of military action I feel now needs to be brought on to the table.

And if we do commit, we commit fully. No half measures, no half pregnancy. We go in and get shit done.

Finally of course, it can't be said enough that this has been such a horrible tragedy for all the victims involved and their families. My heart goes out to them and also to those who posted in this thread who have been effected or whose family members have been effected by such a sickening and vile senseless act of violence.

Those are just my thoughts on the issues surrounding this right now, some of them may change and I don't pretend to know all the answers but one thing is clear as was clear the last time: what we are doing right now ain't working.


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## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

Please no one 'tr;dr' the post above. It's the post of the thread!


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867106285208162304


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867087168564580352Can anyone confirm?


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

virus21 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867087168564580352Can anyone confirm?


'Fraid so, all over our actual news. Not sure exactly who he was supposed to be targetting though, not seen any details beyond his age and he has a history of mental health issues. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...am-vigil-man-knife-baseball-bat-a7752251.html

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-05-23/...ictims-interrupted-after-man-detained-nearby/


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## BigDaveBatista (Aug 23, 2015)

@L-DOPA 

Quality post mate


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

My man Paul Chowdhry speakin it true.

https://www.facebook.com/10979649795/videos/10155840710659796/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

A fine post, @L-DOPA, a fine post.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867099714553958400


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## Ratedr4life (Dec 18, 2008)

Said this the last attack and I'll probably be saying it the next. Islam is the problem. If you're a social justice butterfly you can say I'm discriminating against a group of people and maybe I am, but I find Islam to be an evil doctrine that is more militarian than religious.

It's obviously more than just Islam, its the socio-economic factors that affect people from the middle east. If they had access to education, healthcare, economic freedom there would be less people that would join up with these cowardice organizations. Unfortunately the reason they don't have this is because of the religious views of the citizens of these countries. They're underdeveloped because of their religion. 

A solider dies in a war and I find it unnecessary, 22 children die while attending the concert of their favorite artist, that's cruel. I don't believe in god, but on days like this I hope god does exists only to punish this piece of garbage.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Ratedr4life said:


> Said this the last attack and I'll probably be saying it the next. Islam is the problem. If you're a social justice butterfly you can say I'm discriminating against a group of people and maybe I am, but I find Islam to be an evil doctrine that is more militarian than religious.
> 
> It's obviously more than just Islam, its the socio-economic factors that affect people from the middle east. If they had access to education, healthcare, economic freedom there would be less people that would join up with these cowardice organizations. Unfortunately the reason they don't have this is because of the religious views of the citizens of these countries. They're underdeveloped because of their religion.
> 
> A solider dies in a war and I find it unnecessary, 22 children die while attending the concert of their favorite artist, that's cruel. I don't believe in god, but on days like this I hope god does exists only to punish this piece of garbage.


Middle east is oil rich and has everything you seem to think they don't have. 

In fact poverty has literally nothing to do with militant Islam as poverty nearly doesn't exist in the majority of Muslim states. They rich af.


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Ratedr4life said:


> Said this the last attack and I'll probably be saying it the next. Islam is the problem. If you're a social justice butterfly you can say I'm discriminating against a group of people and maybe I am, but I find Islam to be an evil doctrine that is more militarian than religious.
> 
> It's obviously more than just Islam, its the socio-economic factors that affect people from the middle east. If they had access to education, healthcare, economic freedom there would be less people that would join up with these cowardice organizations. Unfortunately the reason they don't have this is because of the religious views of the citizens of these countries. They're underdeveloped because of their religion.
> 
> A solider dies in a war and I find it unnecessary, 22 children die while attending the concert of their favorite artist, that's cruel. I don't believe in god, but on days like this I hope god does exists only to punish this piece of garbage.


Whilst I agree with a lot of what you're saying, the suicide bomber here was born and raised in Manchester. He had the same education as anybody else in the UK and the same healthcare and everything else. It's not as cut and shut as you think sometimes. He was studying for a degree but dropped out, but he's a British Muslim, not someone actually from the Middle East. Reports are that he went to Libya 3 weeks ago and returned only days ago (big guess as to why he went there /sarcasm.) This reads more like somebody who was radicalised here, which hearkens back to Iconoclast and L-Dopa's great points about vetting the schools and mosques and monitoring this shit better. It's one thing if we let in these terrorist scum from elsewhere to hurt us, for me it's even worse that we've got these snakes infiltrating our communities and turning our own against us. We need to do better.


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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

DesolationRow said:


> A fine post, @L-DOPA, a fine post.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867099714553958400


Oh well there you have it, he was British! Nothing to do with Islam.


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## Ratedr4life (Dec 18, 2008)

Iconoclast said:


> Middle east is oil rich and has everything you seem to think they don't have.
> 
> In fact poverty has literally nothing to do with militant Islam as poverty nearly doesn't exist in the majority of Muslim states. They rich af.


I wouldn't say the people of Iran, Iraq, Libya and Syria are living the good life. The wealth of the country has nothing to do with it, if it's citizens are underprivileged while the leaders are filthy rich, it doesn't mean there isn't poverty it means there is corruption. 

Not a lot of terrorist coming out of UAE.


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## Ratedr4life (Dec 18, 2008)

RavishingRickRules said:


> Whilst I agree with a lot of what you're saying, the suicide bomber here was born and raised in Manchester. He had the same education as anybody else in the UK and the same healthcare and everything else. It's not as cut and shut as you think sometimes. He was studying for a degree but dropped out, but he's a British Muslim, not someone actually from the Middle East. Reports are that he went to Libya 3 weeks ago and returned only days ago (big guess as to why he went there /sarcasm.) This reads more like somebody who was radicalised here, which hearkens back to Iconoclast and L-Dopa's great points about vetting the schools and mosques and monitoring this shit better. It's one thing if we let in these terrorist scum from elsewhere to hurt us, for me it's even worse that we've got these snakes infiltrating our communities and turning our own against us. We need to do better.


I'm aware he's British, but he took up the plight of his "people". As sick and twisted as it may seem to you and I, he actually thinks he's helping the cause of his "people" who live in those countries. 

I'm a proud Canadian, but I'll never understand Nationalism to a country you left behind. If my parents left a country as refugees my allegiances would be with the country that took my family in and saved us.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Ratedr4life said:


> I wouldn't say the people of Iran, Iraq, Libya and Syria are living the good life. The wealth of the country has nothing to do with it, if it's citizens are underprivileged while the leaders are filthy rich, it doesn't mean there isn't poverty it means there is corruption.
> 
> Not a lot of terrorist coming out of UAE.


They were before the various wars which created the poverty. Iran was a wealthy state with a thriving middle class before the 1979 war. Iraqis were fine and like every other country.

Libya, Syria were economic hubs that attracted and we're importers of the poor from South Asia. 

Dubai has an underbelly of slave labor which is too disempowered to do anything tbh.


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## MillionDollarProns (Feb 10, 2011)

I love that all the memorials have been Ariana Grande themed. The memorial ribbons have had bunny ears, they just released a bunch of pink balloons into the air.


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## Ratedr4life (Dec 18, 2008)

Iconoclast said:


> They were before the various wars which created the poverty. Iran was a wealthy state with a thriving middle class before the 1979 war. Iraqis were fine and like every other country.
> 
> Libya, Syria were economic hubs that attracted and we're importers of the poor from South Asia.
> 
> Dubai has an underbelly of slave labor which is too disempowered to do anything tbh.


What caused the downturn in all of their economies? Was it Islam by any chance?


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Ratedr4life said:


> What caused the downturn in all of their economies? Was it Islam by any chance?


Not in the case of Libya and Syria. But definitely in the case of Iran. 

Iraq was doing OK and might have without the US invasion but we'll never know. Iraqi insurgency is directly caused by the US war and not Islam. My opinion is that Iraqi insurgency wouldn't have been as powerful with a powerful dictator keeping it under control. Killing Saddam unleashed it.

Islam is a capitalist / socialist hybrid religion. They know how to make money. Even ISIS are doing very well financially. 

The violence in Islam is directly caused by religious dogma and has little to do with economic depravity at all as Muslims are content to be poor. It's also part of their religious dogma to accept their class in society. They accept that there are rich and there poor and both are as likely to get involved in terrorism. 

Osama was a rich fucker. Acquisition of wealth has never been the Muslim goal of any invasion. It was the consequence of victory.


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## Lady Eastwood (Jul 10, 2006)

Don't care how many Grande white knights come in here to defend her honor, she is a righteous cunt running back to American soil, the country she vowed to leave because she's a snowflake. That twat should have been in the hospital visiting those victims.

It's not her fault that this happened, but, these are mostly very young girls, some of which could possibly be on their deathbeds, who are fans of hers. The least she could have done was visit them.

Must be nice to want to turn your back on your country when things don't go your way, yet, run back as soon as shit hits the fan elsewhere and kiss the ground.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867144325892677633


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## Dell (Feb 24, 2014)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867175749270224897
I knew she would do this.


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

Bomber of Peace, Salman Abedi.


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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)




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## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

Catalanotto said:


> Must be nice to want to turn your back on your country when things don't go your way, yet, run back as soon as shit hits the fan elsewhere and kiss the ground.



That's called American Freedom and the First Amendment me and my pals defend which makes it perfectly in her right to criticize the country if she wants as long as she pays her taxes that fill our paychecks. :draper2

:trump2


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## Ratedr4life (Dec 18, 2008)

Iconoclast said:


> Not in the case of Libya and Syria. But definitely in the case of Iran.
> 
> Iraq was doing OK and might have without the US invasion but we'll never know. Iraqi insurgency is directly caused by the US war and not Islam. My opinion is that Iraqi insurgency wouldn't have been as powerful with a powerful dictator keeping it under control. Killing Saddam unleashed it.
> 
> ...


Fair point, the common thread here is Islam. There's no such thing as peaceful Islam and Extremist Islam, they're both the same. Speaking from actual experience, Muslim people are extremely racist and discriminate against other religions and cultures, they're taught it from an early age, of course the "moderate muslims" don't have the balls to say it to anyone's face they say it behind their backs. As soon as someone is intensive toward them they claim to be peaceful and people of god.


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

CamillePunk said:


> Oh well there you have it, he was British! Nothing to do with Islam.


"Homegrown" in that British magic dirt. As English as Admiral Horatio Nelson. 

The pattern holds true. The children of "refugees" are again and again terrorizing Europe. Imagine how frequent terror will be a mere generation from now.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Ratedr4life said:


> Fair point, the common thread here is Islam. There's no such thing as peaceful Islam and Extremist Islam, they're both the same. Speaking from actual experience, Muslim people are extremely racist and discriminate against other religions and cultures, they're taught it from an early age, of course the "moderate muslims" don't have the balls to say it to anyone's face they say it behind their backs. As soon as someone is intensive toward them they claim to be peaceful and people of god.


Slight correction. Not that I'm disagreeing with you, just highlighting. a point that gets overlooked. 

There is both violence and peace but there is no concrete instructions on which is more valid therefore both factions exist together as this is literally what mixed messages do to people. 

Some focus on the violence. Some focus on the peace. Both believe that theirs is the one true way. Both are indoctrinated. 

I'll still prefer the liberal Muslims who really are peaceful though. They make up the existing majority in the West. 

Don't need no more.


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## embarassed fan (Sep 26, 2016)

Catalanotto said:


> Don't care how many Grande white knights come in here to defend her honor, she is a righteous cunt running back to American soil, the country she vowed to leave because she's a snowflake. That twat should have been in the hospital visiting those victims.
> 
> It's not her fault that this happened, but, these are mostly very young girls, some of which could possibly be on their deathbeds, who are fans of hers. The least she could have done was visit them.
> 
> Must be nice to want to turn your back on your country when things don't go your way, yet, run back as soon as shit hits the fan elsewhere and kiss the ground.


*There goes Catalanotto ripping Ariana a brand new asshole :clap*


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

DesolationRow said:


> "Homegrown" in that British magic dirt. As English as Admiral Horatio Nelson.
> 
> The pattern holds true. The children of "refugees" are again and again terrorizing Europe. Imagine how frequent terror will be a mere generation from now.


If there is ever family reunification for these "refugees" that came over in the migration crisis, there will be countless more attacks.

The European people have no idea what they're getting into, they've enjoyed peace for many decades, these migrants on the other hand are used to this. It won't bother them one bit but embolden them to "fight" for a new homeland and change the area they've now claimed. 

It's going to be interesting what tune the Politicians and the "Diversity" pushers sing when they themselves finally feel the sting of terrorism. Perhaps by then they'll be living in gated off places whilst everyone else enjoys the fruits of their labor of "love".


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## Lady Eastwood (Jul 10, 2006)

NotGuilty said:


> That's called American Freedom and the First Amendment me and my pals defend which makes it perfectly in her right to criticize the country if she wants as long as she pays her taxes that fill our paychecks. :draper2
> 
> :trump2


That was way besides the main point.

She should have visited those victims, those FANS of hers, while they were sitting in a fucking hospital bed.

I don't care who you are, or whether I like you or not, it's just the right thing to do. All she did was whine about how OMG AWFUL she felt, and that she was 'in hysterics', as she got on a plane and didn't look back.

She suspended the rest of her tour, it's not like she had no time on her hands. Really shitty of her to just leave while her fans are hurt or dying in a hospital.


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## TheNightmanCometh (Feb 1, 2017)

Catalanotto said:


> That was way besides the main point.
> 
> She should have visited those victims, those FANS of hers, while they were sitting in a fucking hospital bed.
> 
> ...


Well, TBF, she could easily go back after things have died down. I don't remember anyone blasting Eagles of Death Metal jumping on the first plane back to the states and not looking back, and only coming back a year later. I watched the documentary on it, it was very cathartic for all involved. People grieve in their own way and I have no doubt she really was in hysterics. I don't blame her for taking off, as I'd probably do the same thing, seeing that I'd be scared shitless. Now, if she uses this as some form of publicity, talks about it and all that, and does absolutely nothing, in any way shape or form, for the victims or the people who were affected by this heinous act, then you'll have every right to think what you think, but considering it's less than 24 hrs. since the massacre, I think we should cut her a little slack.


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## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

There's a lot of very strong points that have been made here, many of which I strongly agree with. As I watch the news coverage of what's going on, I can't help but shake my head and just try to wrap my head around it all. 

These evil monsters are changing tactics now...they are hitting soft targets and going after women and children. All these people in the Manchester Arena wanted to do was go to a show and many young ladies just wanted to see one of their favorite performers do her job. This idea that ISIS throws out that they were the Crusaders is just totally absurd. There was no excuse for what they did, and anyone who tries to justify what ISIS and those inspired by them can just die a rotten death and fuck off in hell. 

We have talked ad nauseam about what makes radical Islamic terrorists tick and why they are hellbent on doing all this. I have reached the point now that I no longer care why they do it. I am not interested in having this discussion anymore. Growing up, I ended up dealing with bullies in only one way. I didn't give a shit what their malfunction was, whether they were getting loved enough at home, or any ADHD or other stuff they might have had. I wanted the bully to stop, and that usually meant having to haul off and punch the bastard in the face. Once I realized what had to be done, I was not to be deterred. I have taught my children the same lesson...sometimes you have to take the bully down a couple of notches to get them to stop. 

I also say this to the leaders of our various nations. Over the years, there is no doubt our leadership has fucked up at times trying to take the fight to these scumbags. However, at a time where we now need action the most, all we keep hearing is empty words and rhetoric. British Prime Minister May talks about thwarting those who practice this ideology. President Trump calls them "evil losers" and we need to drive them from this earth. With all due respect, I appreciate the fact they are using the right words...but for years all we have heard is just words and very little action to back them up. People can talk and wring their hands all damn day, but there comes a point where the words mean nothing unless backed by action. 

For years, I have been called crazy, Islamophobic, conspiracy nut, etc...as I have talked about the dangers of radical Islam and what has been coming down the road. We keep trying to appease and say, "We need to understand why they are doing this, then we can get them to stop." I'm done with appeasement, I'm finished with talking, I'm finished with just understanding and caring to stop this. 

The time has come to lay the hammer down on ISIS, Al-Qaeda...any organization and its followers that believe in jihad as a way to destroy us. It is now paramount we do EVERYTHING in our power to kill these people where they live and wipe them off the face of the earth. If others spring up to take their place, we kill them too. If some of these leaders go to the United Nations to whine about what's going on, then we kill them too and let the rest of the world know we have no intention of stopping. 

Here at home, while I want people to have their civil liberties intact, we need to crack down on mosques that openly preach this hate. If an imam here in the States is preaching hate and dissent, look for ways to arrest them and charge them with making such threats. We can arrest them if they are attempting to push for a riot. The First Amendment does not give me the right to yell "fire" in a crowded building, so I'm sure that the First Amendment does not protect people from openly preaching for violence. If we want to solve the immigration issue, again I offer my original plan which could not be construed as discriminatory. For six months, a complete and total shutdown of ALL immigration into this country with an overhaul of the INS. 

For the Muslims around the world that are just as angry about this...now is the time to make a choice. You can either condemn this and stand with us in defiance of this hateful twisting of your faith...or you can stand with the terrorists and run the risk of being killed right along with them. In the run-up leading to World War II, opportunities presented themselves for the German people and military to stop Hitler and the Nazi regime. Even though many were against the Nazis, we reached the point where during the war we could no longer make the distinction between those who opposed Hitler and those who supported them. If they can't speak out against the Islamist movement, they are in support of it and must be dealt with. 

We need to hammer our leadership. Wherever you live, call your officials and leaders and demand action. Be respectful, but be persistent. Tell them that we need to take action and deal with radical Islam now rather than later. If necessary, let them know future votes from you will determine whether they keep their jobs if they will not do anything. At the end of the day, if they keep sitting on their hands...then all the talk about "evil losers" and confronting a vicious ideology don't mean jack shit and are just words and mean nothing.


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## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

Catalanotto said:


> That was way besides the main point.
> 
> She should have visited those victims, those FANS of hers, while they were sitting in a fucking hospital bed.
> 
> ...


She's not the first person to do such a thing so the hostile words you toss at her should be tossed at those that came before her as well. You can't pick and choose who to sink your claws in. :armfold


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## Lady Eastwood (Jul 10, 2006)

NotGuilty said:


> She's not the first person to do such a thing so the hostile words you toss at her should be tossed at those that came before her as well. You can't pick and choose who to sink your claws in. :armfold




This thread is about a concert that involved HER.

If it were a thread about anyone else, I would think the exact same way.

I don't give a fuck who the person is, if I enjoy what they do or not, I simply think it would have been the right thing to do.

You can choose to argue all night just for sake of arguing, I don't care, it wont change my opinion, and I care not if people like you will drool all over her pussy defending her, I just think she should have visited those people, it would have been a real stand up thing to do, for any artist to do.


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## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

Catalanotto said:


> This thread is about a concert that involved HER.
> 
> If it were a thread about anyone else, I would think the exact same way.
> 
> ...


I don't have to be drooling over her lady parts to sympathize with what she's going through. :eyeroll: 

These people were hurt at an event for her. I'm sure besides the grief she's also feeling guilty and blaming herself. Not everyone is MegaWoman Cat strong and can just hit caps lock and carry on. Let the people affected by this tragedy deal with the emotional strains in their own way, I am sure she will do something for the victims but just because she wanted to be home after such an event doesn't make her an awful person.


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

virus21 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867106285208162304


He's likely already been reported for hate speech and is being investigated at this very moment.


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Pop megastar Katy Perry made an impassioned plea for people to “co-exist” and said that “barriers” or “borders” could detract from that goal in an interview following the terrorist bombing at an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, U.K. on Monday night that claimed the lives of at least 22 people and injured dozens of others.*

Oh lookie, got people more worried about Islamophobia over the people that died and got Katy Perry using this attack to push an agenda of no borders and to "love each other". Does this vapid bitch live in the real world? Jesus Christ, these people with a Globalist agenda do not at all care about what's going on one bit.


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## KingofKings1524 (Aug 27, 2007)

Miss Sally said:


> *Pop megastar Katy Perry made an impassioned plea for people to “co-exist” and said that “barriers” or “borders” could detract from that goal in an interview following the terrorist bombing at an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, U.K. on Monday night that claimed the lives of at least 22 people and injured dozens of others.*
> 
> Oh lookie, got people more worried about Islamophobia over the people that died and got Katy Perry using this attack to push an agenda of no borders and to "love each other". Does this vapid bitch live in the real world? Jesus Christ, these people with a Globalist agenda do not at all care about what's going on one bit.


This bitch is unbearable. All of that coming from someone who has centered her new record around a "feud" with another unbearable bitch known as Taylor Swift. Obviously a case of do as I say and not as I do. Anything for publicity I suppose.


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## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

-Bombers dad moved from the UK back to Libya when the uprisings first started (first red flag)
-Bomber recently went to visit his parents in Libya for 3 weeks, returning just a few days before this attack was carried out (second red flag)
-Their trying to trace his steps in this trip because the assumption is that he may have used this as a way to Syria

This is why the EU's long time system of go where ever the fuck you please does not work in the real world anymore. People bitch and moan about TSA protocol and how closely the GOVT is watching everyone all the time but our systems are in place to catch scumbags like this who wander out to get training


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## TheNightmanCometh (Feb 1, 2017)

Miss Sally said:


> *Pop megastar Katy Perry made an impassioned plea for people to “co-exist” and said that “barriers” or “borders” could detract from that goal in an interview following the terrorist bombing at an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, U.K. on Monday night that claimed the lives of at least 22 people and injured dozens of others.*
> 
> Oh lookie, got people more worried about Islamophobia over the people that died and got Katy Perry using this attack to push an agenda of no borders and to "love each other". Does this vapid bitch live in the real world? Jesus Christ, these people with a Globalist agenda do not at all care about what's going on one bit.


Easy for her to say that tucked away in her mansion up in the Hollywood hills. If she feels so strongly about it, I'll pay for her ticket to Mosul, and she can tell them over there. I'm sure it'll go really well for her. World peace is right around the corner, Katy. We just need you to spread the love over there. Tell 'em I said hi.

And no they don't care, dead bodies won't deter them. It's plainly obvious that our lives mean nothing compared to the "greater good". Globalism is Hitlerism.


----------



## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

Miss Sally said:


> *Pop megastar Katy Perry made an impassioned plea for people to “co-exist” and said that “barriers” or “borders” could detract from that goal in an interview following the terrorist bombing at an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, U.K. on Monday night that claimed the lives of at least 22 people and injured dozens of others.*
> 
> Oh lookie, got people more worried about Islamophobia over the people that died and got Katy Perry using this attack to push an agenda of no borders and to "love each other". Does this vapid bitch live in the real world? Jesus Christ, these people with a Globalist agenda do not at all care about what's going on one bit.


Because nothing says "reasonable and eager to coexist" quite like blowing up children.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

In a few months we will get a thread about how about airport security is overzealous or that the US is a police state when some monitoring program gets leaked or some foreign raid happens

If you want security it will have its costs and if you freedom that also has its costs

The government can't just set up a play pen and let you do whatever you want while they keep the scary kids out


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

stevefox1200 said:


> In a few months we will get a thread about how about airport security is overzealous or that the US is a police state when some monitoring program gets leaked or some foreign raid happens
> 
> If you want security it will have its costs and if you freedom that also has its costs
> 
> The government can't just set up a play pen and let you do whatever you want while they keep the scary kids out


Open borders and free love it is!


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Miss Sally said:


> Open borders and free love it is!


Don't get me wrong I am fine with harsher laws and more restrictions on the border but then again I am very strait-laced when it comes to the law

I just find it funny that many of the same people who complain about these attacks also have melt downs when the NSA taps everyone's phones or the government takes search info from Google 

No one is ever in the group they want monitored and vetted


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

stevefox1200 said:


> Don't get me wrong I am fine with harsher laws and more restrictions on the border but then again I am very strait-laced when it comes to the law
> 
> I just find it funny that many of the same people who complain about these attacks also have melt downs when the NSA taps everyone's phones or the government takes search info from Google
> 
> No one is ever in the group they want monitored and vetted


I'm just being silly. Has pretty boy Justin said much yet? I'm looking for a jewel like, "if you kill your enemies they win" from him.


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## yeahbaby! (Jan 27, 2014)

Unfortunately this does seem to be the way it is now, it's fucking horrific.

Whether they really are religious zealots who believe in the cause, or are disenfranchised anti-social nutbars who are using ISIS and terrorism to cause destruction it doesn't really matter, ISIS will still claim responsibility and claim they're winning the war against the west.

Maybe we do need to say fuck it and ramp up the police state stuff to the max, but on the other hand will that not just push more sick fucks who feel like the west is against them already over the edge to commit more attacks?

I agree with the other poster that said it's the ideology that needs to be destroyed, the mindless fucks who actually detonate the bombs just keep growing on trees. 


Also I would say to people who think it's getting worse and worse, read up on your history about the world. Terrorist attacks have been going on a long long time. Not trying to make this less important but this shit it human nature it could be argued.


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## Pencil Neck Freak (Aug 5, 2013)

YOUTUBE]eFo_rR90Tr8[/YOUTUBE]

Probably the best video I saw on the topic.... This whole thing is so horrific. I'm sick of it all, we need to find a way to stop it!

Don't really know how to put on YouTube vids on tapatalk so heres the full link




Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk


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## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

15 year old Olivia Campbell named as the 4th victim . 4 people have been identified and 2 of them are from my home town of Bury :frown2::frown2::frown2:


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## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

He just came back from Libya before carrying out this horrendous attack. Shocking.

- Vic


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## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

L-DOPA said:


> *Addressing Religious Schools*
> 
> Someone brought up the point of banning religious schools and forgive me because I can't remember who off the top of my head. As an atheist, I used to also think that religious schools should be banned (not for reasons of terrorism mind you) back in my more liberal days. But then as I slowly turned towards more individualism and liberty based ideas, I realized that was a bad idea and I still stand by that. The problem with banning religious schools is in effect you end up stopping innocent people from choosing for their children where they want and how they want to educate their children (with obvious exceptions) and by banning all religious schools, you essentially punish those religious schools who have done nothing wrong. Christians, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists etc. should not be punished and be taken away their right to having schools founded upon their religion simply because of Radical Islam. Nor should moderate religious schools based around Islam be banned simply because of their more radical counterparts. Not only that but you create more of a victim complex for Muslims and divide people up further. And I'm not talking about the fake diversity where morons virtue signal about how we shouldn't be Islamophobic, I'm talking about real division here.
> 
> What we should do is further vet the curriculum's of those schools as well as inspections. This isn't too far from what happens now so it isn't a radical change. What _*would*_ be a radical change is to dismantle and ban any Islamic school that harbours or teaches extremism. Promoting violence against other people for your religious or political beliefs is not protected under free speech (very different from the widely known hate speech laws) and therefore I have no problem with cracking down on these potential schools. Which leads me to my next point.....


You've written a great post but I take umbridge with this. You're basically saying its okay to ban ALL imigration from areas that have links, often tenuous, to terrorist organisations which will affect millions of innocent people (including christians, sikhs, Jews etc) yet are unhappy with the idea of state funded religious schools being banned because it affects innocent schools as well?

There are Christian schools teaching pupils LGBT is wrong, we've had creationsim taught at schools, poor integration, state funded religious based sex discrimination etc etc.


> Last year the Fair Admissions Campaign looked at the admissions policies of every religious secondary school in England. In total it found that 99.8% of places at Catholic schools, 100% of places at Jewish schools and 94.9% of places at Muslim schools were subject to religious selection criteria. Recently six Muslim schools in the East End of London were reported by Ofsted for failing to promote “British values”, with pupils believing they were barred from participating in music and dance, while an ultra-orthodox private Jewish school in north London attempted to ban female drivers from dropping their children off.
> 
> Despite being virtually 100% funded by taxpayers, it is found that many religious schools do not follow the proper practices of sex and equality discrimination laws and a recent survey found that 58% of tax-payers think they should not be funded by taxpayers, while 70% think we shouldn’t be funding the promotion of religion in schools at all.
> 
> ...


The idea that we can be fine with banning immigration from select countries but then not be okay with the 'authoritarian' step of banning religious schools is mind boggling. Why the hell do schools need to be religious? What is your defense for the state funding religious schools in the first place?

The fact you wrote one of your concerns about religious schools being banned was that it would make Muslims feel more attacked, then advocate a 'muslim' ban on immigration is...confusing, please clarify why you think its okay to take one oppressive step against a specific religion and not take one that 'oppresses' ALL religions?

Why ban immigration? Why not just 'vet' them, as you so worded it with religious schools. How on earth is this a liberty based value?

A state funded school should not be founded on ANY religion.

Religious schools cause religious segregation, ethnic segregation, and gender segregation, not improve it. As Peter Robinson put it, faith schools create apartheid. And no, this is not just Muslim schools, its EVERY denomination.

Literally EVERY one of your concerns about banning state funded religious schools would be valid concerns for banning immigration. 

You affect innocents, you remove choice, you cause persecution complexes, what exactly IS your rebuttal to state funded schools that is not only the same with an immigration ban but actually affecting more innocent people, removing more choice and causing far more persecution issues??? Oh, and when you say choice, be aware that my brother had NO choice in his kids going to a religious school because it was the ONLY one near by. So in effect religious schools inhibit choice, and not only do they inhibit what YOU can chose, but if you did want your child to go to the nearby catholic/Jewish school because it was closest THEY can inhibit your choice too, they are the only schools to be able to deny entry based on religion, a non affiliated school does not have the same rights to persecute that religious schools do.

I'd be interested to see how happy people like Iconocalst are when the rise in muslims sees an equal rise in muslim faith schools coming to your area and if thats the only nearby school, well have fun sending your kids there...


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## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/after-manchester-its-time-for-anger/19849#.WSU9wtQrJV9

Great article. Sums up the feelings of a lot of people


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## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

Rowdy Yates said:


> http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/after-manchester-its-time-for-anger/19849#.WSU9wtQrJV9
> 
> Great article. Sums up the feelings of a lot of people


Coming from SPIKED...don't they want completely open borders? I mean its well written and I don't disagree, but its kind of meaningless when their over all stance is completely open borders and a destruction of state surveillance.


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## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

draykorinee said:


> Coming from SPIKED...don't they want completely open borders? I mean its well written and I don't disagree, but its kind of meaningless when their over all stance is completely open borders and a destruction of state surveillance.


No idea. Know nothing about Spiked. Thought the article was spot on though


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## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

Rowdy Yates said:


> No idea. Know nothing about Spiked. Thought the article was spot on though


Yeah, they are a libertarian website that believe in open borders. Like you say, the piece itself is pretty spot on.


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## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

draykorinee said:


> You've written a great post but I take umbridge with this. You're basically saying its okay to ban ALL imigration from areas that have links, often tenuous, to terrorist organisations which will affect millions of innocent people (including christians, sikhs, Jews etc) yet are unhappy with the idea of state funded religious schools being banned because it affects innocent schools as well?
> 
> There are Christian schools teaching pupils LGBT is wrong, we've had creationsim taught at schools, poor integration, state funded religious based sex discrimination etc etc.
> 
> ...


I don't want to go too off topic here but I will respond to what you have posted because I understand your position....it was pretty much the exact same one as I had years ago.

First of all and of course I didn't go into detail about this because I was mainly focused on the terrorist aspect, I am not for the state funding of religious schools. I don't want my tax money going towards these schools nor do I believe anyone should be forced to pay money to fund these schools. Freedom to choose does not mean force by association in this case, so I agree the state should not be funding these schools. They should be privately funded, period. Schools don't NEED to be religious, hence why no taxpayer money should go towards them but there should be a choice for people to send their children to them. If you take away their ability to be funded by tax money and instead they have to fund themselves, chances are you would end up seeing less of them anyway. But I didn't address that because I was focused on the terrorism aspect.

Secondly, regarding immigration versus religious schools, the way I see it as this: When you immigrate from another country you are a guest here and when you break certain laws you revoke your right being here and under certain circumstances where the native population is being attacked regularly such as this I believe we have the right to close off immigration from the parts of the world that are breeding these types of activities. Defense of the nation is arguably the most important role of the state after all, only second in my opinion to the protection of liberty and individualism, something which the state is less good at doing :lol.

The second thing I see being a big problem is essentially with regulation of these schools, which I am not against. Which obviously leads to things like pushing to ban female drivers (really? :lol.). Not subjecting people to a DBS check in schools due to Islamophobia is obviously also a huge problem that needs to be fixed. The main problem I see is these schools aren't be checked or regulated enough. That of course can be addressed.

But I don't believe in taking away the parents choice of sending their children to a religious school simply because they are religious. The other arguments such as teaching creationism and LGBT is bad whilst I obviously strongly disagree with those teachings at the end of the day aren't breaking the fundamental rule to me when it comes to the relationship between citizen and citizen or citizen and the state: which is coercion. There has to be an element of responsibility and parenting here which at the end of the day can't come from the state. As long as there is no physical harm, such as the avocation of committing violence towards gay people (hence the need for more regulation) then I don't see the problem so long as the state does not foot the bill. At the end of the day, it would be up to individuals to set up and run those schools and for parents to make the choice to send their children to those schools. I don't think it's wrong for individuals and parents to be able to make that choice with their money, nor do I think it's a feasible solution in the long term when it comes to things such as religious based terrorism. Again, if these schools are promoting violence or coercion then of course, shut them down. But I feel that is a given.

Keep in mind, some people go as far as wanting to ban private schools because according to them it gives certain pupils in life an unfair advantage, but should you ban private schools because certain parents either can afford it or scrape and claw all their money to send their children there? Again, it's an argument against school choice because of the perceived disadvantages for other children in this case, which may or may not be true but does it justify taking the element of choice away from individuals or parents? I happen to disagree but maybe you do.

I'm sorry your brother had to go through that but I'd be interested to see how common this sort of thing occurs. I believe not only is this sort of problem because of those schools being funded by taxpayer money but also mainly because of the lack of school choice there is in general in certain areas. But that's a whole other topic.

The differences I see basically boil down to the acts of coercion and violence and the rights of the native population versus those who come into the country as guests (immigrants). You forfeit those rights as a guest if you break the law and if you commit treason and join to fight for ISIS for example then as a native you forfeit your rights as well.

I kind of rushed this but I hope this explains where I am coming from. I don't really want to reply too much after this concerning this issue because I feel we should keep on topic about this horrible incident in Manchester.


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## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

stevefox1200 said:


> In a few months we will get a thread about how about airport security is overzealous or that the US is a police state when some monitoring program gets leaked or some foreign raid happens
> 
> If you want security it will have its costs and if you freedom that also has its costs
> 
> The government can't just set up a play pen and let you do whatever you want while they keep the scary kids out


Airport security is already ridiculous, but not in a good way. When they conduct the random strip searches, it always seems to be that 90-year-old woman in the wheelchair. When I've had those pat downs I know they seem to overdo it, I have to fight the temptation to ask them to buy me dinner or talk dirty to me first. 

We can find the balance between protecting our civil rights and stopping this shit from happening. That's also why we should take the step of banning all immigration for 6 months while we get the whole system overhauled. What we're doing isn't working.


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## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

L-DOPA said:


> I kind of rushed this but I hope this explains where I am coming from. I don't really want to reply too much after this concerning this issue because I feel we should keep on topic about this horrible incident in Manchester.


I would consider the brainwashing of children in school to be an important part of reducing fundamentalism and thus not off topic. If you want to combat homegrown terrorism then you absolutely must ensure that children are not being conditioned to see things certain ways. Religious schools cause segregation, conditioning people to stick to their own faith/ethnicity and not teaching interaction with people of different faiths/values. I would argue that getting children in to diverse school and not faith specific schools would be a great start to reducing the barriers to failed 'multiculturalism'.

Obviously the other fluff about faith schools being given free reign to deny choice to parents might seem off topic, but its by this virtue alone that faith schools can both persecute those of none or other faiths and also foster segregation.

If we're talking about how to prevent homegrown terrorists, which this guy was, then its absolutely not off topic.

Outside of hitting mosques and surveillance how better to prevent home grown terrorists than when people are at there most vulnerable?

I think most people who are fine with faith schools (they are a minority) are only okay with them because the majority are predominatly white C of E ones personally.


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## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

draykorinee said:


> I would consider the brainwashing of children in school to be an important part of reducing fundamentalism and thus not off topic. If you want to combat homegrown terrorism then you absolutely must ensure that children are not being conditioned to see things certain ways. Religious schools cause segregation, conditioning people to stick to their own faith/ethnicity and not teaching interaction with people of different faiths/values. I would argue that getting children in to diverse school and not faith specific schools would be a great start to reducing the barriers to failed 'multiculturalism'.
> 
> Obviously the other fluff about faith schools being given free reign to deny choice to parents might seem off topic, but its by this virtue alone that faith schools can both persecute those of none or other faiths and also foster segregation.
> 
> ...


Difference being I don't hear about parochial, Christian, or Jewish schools promoting jihad and killings of those who don't agree with Allah being the path. If this is happening in Muslim schools it does need to be looked into. 

My biggest concern is that a few months from now we are having this discussion again because our leaders would rather talk then act. They talk a big game but it becomes background noise ultimately. We need to see action on this.


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## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

BruiserKC said:


> Difference being I don't hear about parochial, Christian, or Jewish schools promoting jihad and killings of those who don't agree with Allah being the path. If this is happening in Muslim schools it does need to be looked into.
> 
> My biggest concern is that a few months from now we are having this discussion again because our leaders would rather talk then act. They talk a big game but it becomes background noise ultimately. We need to see action on this.


I certainly wouldn't conflate Muslim extremism with other faiths extremism, I highly doubt any schools are teaching kids to be martyrs though but using it as a groundwork to entrench extreme viewpoints and fostering a segragted isolated community of faiths. 

Of course a Jewish school banning female drivers from dropping off kids is twisted, Catholics firing gay teachers is wrong, Christians teaching creationism s stupid, but I certainly wouldn't put that alongside Islamic extremism.

The funny thing is this Tory government has given MORE powers to promote segregation and persecution and increased the number of state funded faith schools, not the opposite which is what we should be seeing.


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## THE HAITCH (May 18, 2016)

Miss Sally said:


> Judging by the Media narrative and by some posts here, not only is this what will happen but we're supposed to do this and just accept it.


This is exactly how it all becomes the new "normal", that everyone must get used to.

Europeans will continue to be the cuckolds that they have become.

Radical islamists will enslave them, and those beta ******* will have nobody to blame but themselves.

And unlike in the past, The Haitch hopes that Big Brother America will not come to rescue their ass.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

> Less than 24 hours after the shocking attack in Manchester, while many families were still desperately searching for their loved ones, open borders activists were spotted at a vigil in Birmingham unfurling a ‘refugees welcome’ banner.
> ! RED ALERT !
> Stay informed with email updates
> 
> ...


http://www.westmonster.com/open-borders-activists-use-birmingham-vigil-to-push-agenda/


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Look at the news cycle and it's disgusting

- It's a loud-speaker - Everyone laughs at the children tweeting
- It's just balloons - Everyone laughs at the children tweeting
- There are fatalities (this only changed after children started tweeting about blood and bodies everywhere)
- It was a bomb
-It was a nail bomb
-It wasn't ISIS
-Don't hate Muslims
- He's a known person but he's just a lone wolf
-Don't hate muslims
-Look at this obviously Sikh looking guy helping out. Muslims are amazing
-Don't hate Muslims
-ISIS claimed responsibility but it isn't ISIS
-Don't hate Muslims
-ISIS and terrorists aren't Muslims so don't hate Muslims because while terrorists aren't Muslims people talking about Muslim terrorists hate Muslims-
-More people related to the terrorist were apprehended but he's still a lone wolf
-He was a trained terrorist who received training during family trips in the middle east
-He was a homegrown jihadi who is really just a product of the west foreign policy in Syria 

They did EVERYTHING they could to try to frame it as something it wasn't. Took them 2 days to admit what he really was. Basically imo giving the media and officials to spin the anti-Islamophobia narrative first and only confirming it was ISIS after enough time has passed and still the media is now framing a narrative around how it's the west's policies that did this. 

The real reason why Europe is unsafe imo. The media, politicians and general public shapes a horrible and ignorant narrative from the start to the finish doing everything in their power to convert the horrible reality of maimed victims into a pro-immigrant, pro-muslim hallucination instead.



draykorinee said:


> Yeah, they are a libertarian website that believe in open borders. Like you say, the piece itself is pretty spot on.


Libertarianism (at least the right) advocates for private property and its protection so open borders assumes that a nation state isn't the private property of the citizens. I find it to be a flawed premise as that means that no one's property is their own and that opens up left libertarianism to both "taxation" as well as seizure by others in a supposedly non violent but still coercive way to force people to define their needs to an arbitrarily defined predetermined socially acceptable level and therefore redistribution of wealth through shaming tactics essentially making them closer to non violent communists than anarchists.

Left Libertarianism is faux libertarianism imo.


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## Sufferin Succotash (Jan 29, 2015)

Any arrests made yet? If not, probably not a bombing. People need to stop overreacting. Could just be a malfunction like an electrical explosion. It happens.

People ought to blame the concert arena, not a religion of Peace.


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## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

THE HAITCH said:


> This is exactly how it all becomes the new "normal", that everyone must get used to.
> 
> Europeans will continue to be the cuckolds that they have become.
> 
> ...


Problem is that if Europe falls, they will set their sights on America next. The one world caliphate doesn't mean everything but America. Make no mistake they will see us sitting the fight out as a sign of weakness. We can't afford that.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Here are all the victims that they've been able to identify so far ... implying that 2 days later almost half of the children killed are in no condition to be identified imo. 

*Jane Tweddle-Taylor — killed
*The BBC reports that 50-year old Jane Tweddle-Taylor, from Blackpool, is the latest confirmed victim of the attack.

She reportedly went to the arena with a friend to pick up the friend's daughter. She was a receptionist at South Shore Academy School in Blackpool.

*Martyn Hett — killed
*









The 29-year-old was not seen or heard from following the blast.

Friend Russell Hayward announced on Twitter that Hett was among those killed.

He said: "We got the news last night that our wonderful iconic and beautiful Martyn didn’t survive. He left this world exactly how he lives, centre of attention."

*Olivia Campbell — killed
*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867212688996409344
Campbell went to the concert with her best friend Adam Lawler, who was treated in hospital. The 15-year-old's phone was not ringing and calls to hospitals proved fruitless. Her mother Charlotte confirmed her death on Wednesday morning.

*Alison Howe and Lisa Lees — killed
*








The friends were waiting in the foyer of Manchester Arena to collect their 15-year-old daughters when they were caught up in the suicide bombing. News of their death was confirmed on Facebook.

"They took a caring, beautiful Mum and step mother away," Howe's stepson Jordan said on Facebook. Lees' brother Lee Hunter wrote: "Gone but never forgotten. I love you Lisa and I'll miss you so much."

*Kelly Brewster — killed
*









Brewster's boyfriend Ian Winslow confirmed the news of her death on Facebook. She attended the Grande concert with her sister, Claire, and her niece, Hollie Booth, who were both injured in the attack, according to The Mirror.

"Not sure how this works but it isn't good news. Kelly Brewster wasn't one of the unidentified hospital patients. She has sadly passed away in the terror attack yesterday," he said. "Kelly really was the happiest she has ever been and we had so many things planned together."

*Angelika and Marcin Klis — killed
*









Sky News reported on Wednesday morning that the husband and wife died in Monday's attack. The news was confirmed by the Polish foreign minister, Sky said. The Klis' daughter, Alex, had appealed for information on Facebook.

*Georgina Callander — killed
*










Callander was named as the first victim of the attack. Friends of the 18-year-old said she was one of the first people rushed to hospital after the attack. She died with her mother at her bedside in hospital, according to a close friend.

Runshaw College Sixth Form Centre, where Callander was studying, confirmed her death on Facebook. "It is with enormous sadness that it appears that one of the people who lost their lives in Monday’s Manchester attack was one of our students here at Runshaw College," it said.

*Saffie Rose Roussos — killed
*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/866992577924542466
Eight-year-old Rose Roussos attended the Grande gig with her mother, but the pair were separated, according to reports.

"Saffie was simply a beautiful little girl in every aspect of the word. She was loved by everyone," said, Chris Upton, headteacher at Tarleton Community Primary School.

*John Atkinson — killed
*








Manchester Evening News said the 28-year-old from Bury was a victim of Monday's attack. Described as an "amazing young man," he was said to be leaving the gig when he was caught up in the blast.

Nell Jones — killed









The 14-year-old's cousins appealed for information, but the head teacher of her school confirmed her death.

*Chloe Rutherford and Liam Curry — missing
*









The family and friends have not heard from Rutherford, 17, and Curry, 19. The pair were at the Grande concert together.

*Courtney Boyle and Philip Tron — missing
*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/866923011970138113
*Laura Macintyre and Eilidh Macleod — missing
*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/866922246199271424
*Wendy Fawell — missing
*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/866908680729624576
---


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## THE HAITCH (May 18, 2016)

BruiserKC said:


> Problem is that if Europe falls, they will set their sights on America next. The one world caliphate doesn't mean everything but America. Make no mistake they will see us sitting the fight out as a sign of weakness. We can't afford that.


The fact of the matter is that those Europeans are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

If America tries to rescue those cowards by killing radical islamists, the European liberals will cry about human rights.

Keep in mind, this is not just a war on military level, but also on intellectual level.

When you have establishment puppets like Trudeau and Macron bitching against nationalism, and lowkey supporting terrorism...

And thousands of ignorant youngsters blindly following those supposed youth icons-uhh..

While hating on nationalist leaders like Trump and Le Pen...

There's just no way that a solution can be reached there.

The Haitch is well aware that America isn't immune to this.

We have had our share of attacks in the past, and we have not forgotten them, and never would.

But more than those external enemies, we need to get rid of the enemies that are dwelling within the country.

The fake news propagating media, the libtards, the entitled bitches of showbiz and the islam-sympathizer leftists.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/24/m...ush&utm_source=daily_caller&utm_campaign=push



> Manchester Bomber Had ‘Clear Ties To Al-Qaida,’ Terrorist Training
> Photo of Russ Read
> RUSS READ
> Pentagon/Foreign Policy Reporter
> ...


So even when a Muslim mother reports *on her own son* the authorities can't/don't do anything 

:wow


----------



## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

Seeing those tweets and pics :mj2. Can't imagine how the father, mothers, sisters, boyfriends, etc feel right now.


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## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

> A Muslim community worker has told BBC News that members of the public called the police anti-terrorism hotline warning about the Manchester suicide bomber’s extreme and violent views several years ago.
> 
> The BBC also understands that Abedi was in Manchester earlier this year when he told people of the value of dying for a cause and made hardline statements about suicide operations and the conflict in Libya.
> 
> ...


How did this cunt get back in the UK from Libya and not get surveillanced to high heaven?


> Fawzi Haffar, speaking on behalf of Didsbury Mosque, says: "This act of cowardice has no place in our religion...we encourage anyone with information to contact police."


:bunk


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## embarassed fan (Sep 26, 2016)

*Europeans that don't want refuges should move to the middle east to get away from them. *


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

Yep, still pissed off. In case anybody was wondering.


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## Onehitwonder (Jul 17, 2011)

One of the biggest problems is multiculturalism as an ideology. It puts all the minorities to pedestal and encourage muslims from middle east and africa to keep their ways. That and wellfair systems means they dont have to integrate. The alternative would be assimilation that would force them to integrate more, and could ease some problems a little bit at least.

Terrorist attacks are sadly just a tip of the ice berg. There are huge problems in muslim communities all across europe. Also it doesnt help at all that more and more are coming to europe all the time. Europe needs to take the Australian model.

Many people laugh at us western europeans of how stupid we have been. We finns were laughing at swedes how naive they have been. But when 2015 came, and they were pouring from our borders, we made huge demonstration and people were demanding closing down the borders... Nothing was done, and our prime minister promised the refuges his house... We got 32 000 in few months. That may sound few to americans, but compared to population, it was same as 2,5 million would come to USA in few months.

My point was, that if that happens to us, it would happen to any country if there are entities wanting it. We have a very concervative goverment too.

It is not just 2015. Our muslim communities are getting bigger very fast and problems are rising, like sexual assaults and grooming of finnish teenage girls. And when the communties gets bigger and bigger, also terrorism is comming more likely... If I would to say this in facebook in finnish, I would probably get prosecuted for hate speech.


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ter-attack-libya-foreign-policy-a7752706.html
@Iconoclast you'll probably enjoy this one. A lot of it lines up with stuff I've read from you about the secular leaders in the Middle East being overthrown allowing the extremists to take hold. You may be surprised to find these opinions all coming from maybe our most left-wing party leader. As I've said many times, the attributes of the left and right in our respective countries differ massively.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

RavishingRickRules said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ter-attack-libya-foreign-policy-a7752706.html
> @Iconoclast you'll probably enjoy this one. A lot of it lines up with stuff I've read from you about the secular leaders in the Middle East being overthrown allowing the extremists to take hold. You may be surprised to find these opinions all coming from maybe our most left-wing party leader. As I've said many times, the attributes of the left and right in our respective countries differ massively.


I think that non-intervention is mostly a rationalist "common sense" position than solidly left or right in the terms we think of left and right. I'm just surprised that after 8 chilling years of Obama's warmongering we have to even talk about the left as being antiwar actually. 

But for the most part, I'm glad to see someone in Europe that is actually somewhat popular finally talking sense about this issue. 

Unfortunately, I don't think that Corbyn even has a slight chance of being elected, does he? Labor has too many other problematic ideologies from what I've seen.


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## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

draykorinee said:


> How did this cunt get back in the UK from Libya and not get surveillanced to high heaven?
> 
> 
> :bunk


Those who were contacted about this guy and did NOTHING have the victim's blood on their hands


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## Jam (Nov 6, 2015)

Simply Flawless said:


> Those who were contacted about this guy and did NOTHING have the victim's blood on their hands


It's honestly shocking & I hope they feel the greatest amount of guilt right now


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Iconoclast said:


> I think that non-intervention is mostly a rationalist "common sense" position than solidly left or right in the terms we think of left and right. I'm just surprised that after 8 chilling years of Obama's neo-con regime that we have to even talk about the left as being antiwar actually.
> 
> But for the most part, I'm glad to see someone in Europe that is actually somewhat popular finally talking sense about this issue.
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't think that Corbyn even has a slight chance of being elected, does he? Labor has too many other problematic ideologies from what I've seen.


He halfed the Tory lead in a week in the latest polls. Also 400K young people registered to vote on the deadline day and majority seem to be on his side. And as we know, whislt the polls are saying "Tory" those poll aren't all they're cracked up to be any more. I dunno. It took me a long time to be persuaded by the man and our media have done just as much to assassinate him as yours did to Trump (it's funny, our media is far more right wing so it's like the situation in reverse.) Thing is, recently Theresa May has been flopping in interviews (hence the trending "weak and wobbly" to counter her "strong and stable" slogan) has been exposed for not meeting with the people and staging "appearances" with a few Tory activists strategically placed to look like a crowd, video of her campaigning knocking on doors and getting no answer at every door then giving up on it. In comparison Corbyn is attracting crowds of thousands, giving great, calm, collected interviews, the Labour manifesto is costed (which may be debatable) and aimed at the many not the few, the Tory manifesto is uncosted, draconian and full of the same austerity shit they've been running with for the last 2 terms where they've tripled the national debt and borrowed more than every single left-wing government combined. Theresa May is refusing to debate him live on TV even though he's openly challenged her multiple times including on her own Facebook Live session she did on TV. To be honest, anybody who thinks May would do better on the "world stage" then Corbyn at this point is flat out deluding themselves, she's terrified to even debate him and is appearing in interviews with her husband and talking house because it's the only way she doesn't look like a total incompetent. I dunno, I didn't think Trump had a hope in hell and look where we are?

edit: Just to add, though I'm generally more right-wing when it comes to finances, our "Conservative" party has proven in their current reign that they're utterly incompetent when it comes to money. That's pretty damning for a right wing government in my eyes. When leading economists are backing the Leftie leader's anti-austerity policies because the right-wing government's austerity measures are fucking up big time there starts to become less and less reasons to trust the party, especially when they've already been investigated for human rights issues (you now I lean left on social issues) and found to be responsible for the deaths of thousands of vulnerable and disabled citizens. In effect, both financially and socially, Labour/Corbyn is the better choice as far as I can see it.


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## Jam (Nov 6, 2015)

Corbyn has 0 chance as the people who will vote for him still won't vote :shrug

& it's a fucking shame too...people say he's "unelectable"

Bollocks

I'd love to be wrong honestly


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Simply Flawless said:


> Those who were contacted about this guy and did NOTHING have the victim's blood on their hands


what should they have done about the guy since he was born in the UK?


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## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

birthday_massacre said:


> what should they have done about the guy since he was born in the UK?


They knew for years he was bad but did nothing they should have arrested him i don't care if he's UK born or not you want to blow shit up then take the punishment


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Simply Flawless said:


> They knew for years he was bad but did nothing they should have arrested him i don't care if he's UK born or not you want to blow shit up then take the punishment


Arrest him on what? Are you talking precrime here like in Minority Report?

Were there texts or emails or evidence of him planning an attack?


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## Sensei Utero (May 1, 2016)

Basically, the guy should've been arrested. I find it baffling that he wasn't beforehand. If he was, this terrible atrocity could've been prevented.

What to do next, my mind is still unclear on. My thoughts and heart go out to the people of Manchester, and more importantly the victims of this terrible attack. Rest in power to those who tragically died. No one should go to a gig and then have to go through what occurred. Awful.


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## MillionDollarProns (Feb 10, 2011)

I hear Ariana is donating all this week's sales to the families. What an angel :mj2


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

> On Vaisakhi - a historical and religious festival in Sikhism celebrated on April 13 or 14 every year and is "the Sikh new year", a million-dollar awareness campaign launched in the United States aiming to quell confused hatred and attacks by explaining who they are and what they believe. I posted "Neighbours", "Proud" and "Who we are" (short variant) here earlier, while wondering why such a campaign would even be necessary.
> Clearly, I am not the target market.
> This campaign was funded by Sikh leaders and their families across a dozen cities in the United States and is a response to the angry and uninformed who react to their beards and turbans. Those are symbols of equality in a religion that opposes India’s caste system. If you think about it "we are all equal" is the most American of values, and that's exactly what the campaign aims to teach people.
> On Monday night, a horrific terror attack was executed in Manchester, UK, where young girls and their parents were greeted by a bomb at the end of an Ariana Grande concert.
> ...


https://adland.tv/adnews/we-are-sikhs-campaign-fights-uphill-battle-against-media-think-theyre-muslim/1127706370



> The Gatestone Institute reports Sunday on the striking rate of closures of churches in the United Kingdom’s capital city, a trend mirrored elsewhere in Europe, and the blooming number of mosques that have been established in their stead.
> Reporting on the change in religious observation in London, the Gatestone Institute writes:
> 
> “London is more Islamic than many Muslim countries put together”, according to Maulana Syed Raza Rizvi, one of the Islamic preachers who now lead “Londonistan”, as the journalist Melanie Phillips has called the English capital. No, Rizvi is not a right-wing extremist. Wole Soyinka, a Nobel Laureate for Literature, was less generous; he called the UK “a cesspit for Islamists”.
> ...


http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/04/02/gatestone-institute-423-new-mosques-500-closed-churches-london/


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## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

virus21 said:


> http://www.westmonster.com/open-borders-activists-use-birmingham-vigil-to-push-agenda/


Excuse my language but what a bunch of fucking cunts. Using vigils to promote political agendas is disgusting.

Also, pushing for open borders now :lmao. These idiots will never learn.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)




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## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

The video @virus21 linked is important and should be watched by all.


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

L-DOPA said:


> Excuse my language but what a bunch of fucking cunts. Using vigils to promote political agendas is disgusting.
> 
> Also, pushing for open borders now :lmao. These idiots will never learn.


The guy was a UK citizen, a closed border in this case would not have made a difference


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

MMMMD said:


> Corbyn has 0 chance as the people who will vote for him still won't vote :shrug
> 
> & it's a fucking shame too...people say he's "unelectable"
> 
> ...


Never forget that a lot of the people saying he's "unelectable" support UKIP. Exactly how many UKIP Mp's are there? Corbyn's never not been re-elected in his constituency, smashed his leadership elections and grew the party to the biggest membership in Europe. The media can say what they like, to me, it seems people are starting to catch on. And I'll happily admit I was a late-comer myself, the media did the same number on me as they're doing on everybody else. How unelectable is it to consistently draw thousands of people to your speeches when your biggest opponent can't draw 100?


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)




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## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

birthday_massacre said:


> what should they have done about the guy since he was born in the UK?


They developed surveillance millenia ago.


----------



## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)




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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

birthday_massacre said:


> The guy was a UK citizen, a closed border in this case would not have made a difference


Allowing him to re-enter the UK with nobody keeping an eye on him after travelled to Libya and Syria and probably several other shithole countries as well turned out to be good policy didn't it.

The openness or closed-ness of borders isn't exclusive to immigration.

At the very least if someone travels to these shithole countries they shouldn't be allowed back in unless they are put under strict surveillance. Don't care if they're a citizen or not. Western security apparatus spends tens of billions a year to implement dumbass policies that allow hundreds of extremely dangerous individuals to slip through the cracks. Except they aren't cracks they're gaping holes.

This guy was scaring people in his own (Muslim) UK community because he was acting and talking like a jihadi after he got back. Maybe it would have been a good thing for the UK government to have its head out of its ass and be aware of that since it apparently was not :hmmm

But nope, just another jihadi the government *knew* about but wasn't keeping an eye on who ended up slaughtering a score of innocent people. 

Maybe not making it so these people can't take a shit without someone in the government knowing about it is not a good policy. 

If some mouthbreathing only worth something because she has big tits she likes showing off retard like Katy Perry doesn't like it too fucking bad. If some bitch like Sadiq Khan or the bitch boys in the ACLU don't like it too fucking bad. There's only one community these assholes are coming from. Not putting a microscope on them after they're identified and on the community to identify them because oh my God we might get called racists is a dereliction of duty.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)




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## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

*If you wanna go to places like Syria and the like then you should forfeit your rights to return. :draper2 *


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## embarassed fan (Sep 26, 2016)

AryaDark said:


> *If you wanna go to places like Syria and the like then you should forfeit your rights to return. :draper2 *


*That's not fair. Many young men and women are lured by ISIS recruiters with hopes of a better life. Lots of women go there to get married. Men go there to be warriors, to fight for something greater than themselves.
Everyone makes mistakes. Some of them miss their friends and family back home and want to come back. *


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

embarassed fan said:


> *That's not fair. Many young men and women are lured by ISIS recruiters with hopes of a better life. Lots of women go there to get married. Men go there to be warriors, to fight for something greater than themselves.
> Everyone makes mistakes. Some of them miss their friends and family back home and want to come back. *


:heston


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## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

AryaDark said:


> *If you wanna go to places like Syria and the like then you should forfeit your rights to return. :draper2 *


What about the women that have gone to Syria to fight ISIS?

https://www.rt.com/uk/383672-isis-kurdish-syria-turkey/


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

samizayn said:


> What about the women that have gone to Syria to fight ISIS?
> 
> https://www.rt.com/uk/383672-isis-kurdish-syria-turkey/


What about them? They can come back in.

Government is stoopid but not so stoopid it can't discriminate between people who go to Syria to fight ISIS and people who go to Syria to fight for ISIS. I would hope.


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## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

samizayn said:


> What about the women that have gone to Syria to fight ISIS?
> 
> https://www.rt.com/uk/383672-isis-kurdish-syria-turkey/


*I'll allow exceptions for those fighting against ISIS.*


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

deepelemblues said:


> What about them? They can come back in.
> 
> Government is stoopid but not so stoopid it can't discriminate between people who go to Syria to fight ISIS and people who go to Syria to fight for ISIS. I would hope.


I'm not convinced of that, have you seen our current government? They're a right-wing government who've borrowed more than every left wing government we've had combined and tripled our national debt. They wanted to make the internet more "safe" by removing all encryption and building a back door into every system in the UK (which any hacker with half a brain could use.) They targeted their own voter base in their latest manifesto then had to u-turn a couple days later because actually, they're pretty fucking stupid. I can't believe people trust them to keep us safe, their austerity policies are so damaging that we're 20,000 police officers down since they've been in power and it's more important to them to line their own pockets than keep us safe. I can definitely see them getting confused and thinking they're all fighting against ISIS and welcoming the terrorists with open arms. I know out there it's the liberals who are preventing people really questioning Islam, here it's the Conservatives and they run the majority of our press/media. I actually posted an article earlier in the thread with the most left wing party leader saying the things that the Tories won't say with their PC stuff. Neocons are our biggest problem out here, and I have no fucking clue how we're going to survive til 2020 if they get re-elected which is most likely. What a shit storm. When your current Prime Minister "lost" the documents on one of our biggest and most dangerous paedophile rings (some of whom were in their party) and everybody walks off scott-free then there's some serious fucking shade going on somewhere.


----------



## TheNightmanCometh (Feb 1, 2017)

> ISIS Lays Down Arms After Katy Perry’s Impassioned Plea To ‘Like, Just Co-Exist’
> May 24, 2017
> Share on Facebook Tweet on Twitter
> 
> ...


:lmao


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)




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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

CamillePunk said:


>


Saw this, too. :lmao

The cognitive dissonance leading to the West's suicidal behavior would make for quite the Kubrickian pitch-black comedy under different circumstances.


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

TheNightmanCometh said:


> :lmao


And then they demanded show us more of your tits 

Katy complied and the world united EVEN MOAR in appreciation


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## MrMister (Mar 11, 2005)

holy shit CP that is fucking hilarious.

the bit above is funny as fuck too.


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

deepelemblues said:


> Allowing him to re-enter the UK with nobody keeping an eye on him after travelled to Libya and Syria and probably several other shithole countries as well turned out to be good policy didn't it.
> 
> The openness or closed-ness of borders isn't exclusive to immigration.
> 
> ...


So you want a surveillance state and a police state then?

So if someone was worried about your views or ideology, then you should be thrown into jail?

People have rights. 

If this guy was caught planning an attack then yes arrest him but is that what even happened in this case?

So I guess you are ok in the US with how the NSA was spying on everyone right?


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## yeahbaby! (Jan 27, 2014)

birthday_massacre said:


> So you want a surveillance state and a police state then?
> 
> So if someone was worried about your views or ideology, then you should be thrown into jail?
> 
> ...


Dude, there was a post a few pages back saying that friends of this guy reported him to the authorities repeatedly talking about being a suicide bomber etc etc.

So, yes, if you go on like that in the current climate you deserve to have your freedoms impinged upon.


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

yeahbaby! said:


> Dude, there was a post a few pages back saying that friends of this guy reported him to the authorities repeatedly talking about being a suicide bomber etc etc.
> 
> So, yes, if you go on like that in the current climate you deserve to have your freedoms impinged upon.


It said a few pages back, unless I am reading the wrong post that he said being a suicide bomber is ok if you are dying for a cause.

It did not say he was one. But even saying that and reporting it to the police, the policies were wrong if they did not look into it or even flag him.

But what some people are wanting, is to throw him in jail just for saying that which you can't do.

they should have def looked into him and put him on a watch list that is for sure.

You are not saying he should have been arrested and thrown in jail just for those words are you?

It would be one thing if he had plans to bomb some place then yes if there is evidence of that throw him in jail.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)




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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867477617414475776
This is getting really weird ...


----------



## yeahbaby! (Jan 27, 2014)

birthday_massacre said:


> It said a few pages back, unless I am reading the wrong post that he said being a suicide bomber is ok if you are dying for a cause.
> 
> It did not say he was one. But even saying that and reporting it to the police, the policies were wrong if they did not look into it or even flag him.
> 
> ...


Arrested and thrown into jail - no. More intervention than just a watch list - yes. Have investigators go out and interview him perhaps, follow a process designed by anti-terrorism experts or something.


----------



## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

Iconoclast said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867477617414475776
> This is getting really weird ...


It's going to be an interesting summer.


----------



## TheNightmanCometh (Feb 1, 2017)

Iconoclast said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867477617414475776
> This is getting really weird ...


It's only weird if you don't recognize that they're all pawns in a much bigger game. Once you realize that it makes perfect sense.


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## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

RavishingRickRules said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ter-attack-libya-foreign-policy-a7752706.html
> @Iconoclast you'll probably enjoy this one. A lot of it lines up with stuff I've read from you about the secular leaders in the Middle East being overthrown allowing the extremists to take hold. You may be surprised to find these opinions all coming from maybe our most left-wing party leader. As I've said many times, the attributes of the left and right in our respective countries differ massively.


Very good read. I admire someone like Corbyn who is willing to stand for his principles. There are some very valid points here...the extremists were kept on a very tight leash and with the overthrow of these leaders it has gotten bad. Egypt might have gone that way too were it not for the military deciding they weren't going to let the Muslim Brotherhood create an Islamist theocracy. 

Too bad he is on the wrong side of this argument however. I understand wholeheartedly that our leadership has screwed up royally across the Middle East. The West is worn out after fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq over the last 15-plus years and are very hesitant to get involved in another conflict. However, we are facing an enemy that has been willing to play the long game. They use our reluctance against us. We say we're not wanting to fight and we're going to leave you alone. To them, we are saying, "We are weak and ripe for the takeover." They are slowly gaining a foothold in many locales across western Europe. They have no intention of stopping, they have every intention of moving forward and to continue with their quest for the one-world caliphate. Every passing day we hold fast to not getting involved and not fighting is a day they grow stronger. 

Radical Islam is the 21st century version of Nazism/fascism. Back in the 1930s, a reluctant Europe did everything they could to avoid conflict so they pretty much gave Hitler everything he wanted. He exploited those weaknesses and the unwillingness of the West to put up a fight. The voices that cried out that this was a huge mistake went ignored and mocked until Hitler and the Germans completed a full takeover of Czechoslovakia. Suddenly, the world woke up to what they had done. Unfortunately, it cost over 60 million lives to correct that error. 

You want to find a way to curb immigration from these nations, fine. Find a way to watch the mosques that preach hate, I'm on board with that. But to continue to just turn the other cheek means the consequences are that much more severe when we finally decide to stand and fight. And, it will eventually reach that point where we have to fight for our freedoms and lives or risk the world falling to radical Islam. We can't hold off much longer. In fact, reading more of the responses to that column, more and more people are reaching the point they are wanting something done. 

Call me a warmonger, call me an interventionist, etc. The bottom line is turning the other cheek has done nothing. In fact, this idea that if we had pretty much left alone in the Middle East that the Islamist movement wouldn't take hold is bullshit. They'd keep coming if we left the ME to their own designs and certainly if we pretty much left Israel to fend for itself (another typical piece of Islamist propaganda). Besides, everyone here, including @Iconoclast, says that Islam is dangerous and we see the threat it is around the world. You confront a threat and squash it, otherwise it will run you over. We have the chance to stop this now before it reaches that point. 



THE HAITCH said:


> The fact of the matter is that those Europeans are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.
> 
> If America tries to rescue those cowards by killing radical islamists, the European liberals will cry about human rights.
> 
> ...


I just don't know what it will take for us to do something. I shudder at the thought of watching the NBA Finals and while Lisa Salters or Doris Burke is interviewing LeBron after the game that suddenly we see an explosion at the arena. 

You make very valid points. I get the fact that this is an intellectual matter every bit as much as one of survival. The problem is that our leadership keeps intellectualizing and talking, but not a whole hell of a lot is getting done. They talk about what we can do, what we should do, how we should do it, etc. However, the end result is more talk. Meanwhile, these incidents happen more and more. It's like washing your hair in the shower...lather, rinse, repeat. Some are concerned about fighting and how they are perceived by the rest of the world. And then some are just flat-out chicken shit cowards who are afraid of doing anything for fear of the backlash from public opinion and they will be the targets of attacks. 

This is what frustrates me most...we're going to debate this here until we're blue in the face. This is a wrestling forum, so we don't have the power to really make anything happen. At the same time, our leadership is abdicating their responsibility to keep us safe. They are failing in that regard, and have done so bigly. We have more and more people like Trump and Le Pen speaking out, but it's not enough just to talk a big game. We need action and a plan to finally confront these evil monsters who seek to destroy us. I'm done with talk, we need to finally do something about this. Otherwise, it's same shit, different day. 

With that, the Bruiser lays down this quote-uhh. 
*
“It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand.”*- Apache proverb


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

yeahbaby! said:


> Arrested and thrown into jail - no. More intervention than just a watch list - yes. Have investigators go out and interview him perhaps, follow a process designed by anti-terrorism experts or something.


I can agree with that totally. I just dont want to see anyone thrown in jail without solid proof.

if he was the one who bought the bomb parts that something that should be flagged somewhere.


----------



## Jam (Nov 6, 2015)

RavishingRickRules said:


> Never forget that a lot of the people saying he's "unelectable" support UKIP. Exactly how many UKIP Mp's are there? Corbyn's never not been re-elected in his constituency, smashed his leadership elections and grew the party to the biggest membership in Europe. The media can say what they like, to me, it seems people are starting to catch on. And I'll happily admit I was a late-comer myself, the media did the same number on me as they're doing on everybody else. How unelectable is it to consistently draw thousands of people to your speeches when your biggest opponent can't draw 100?


That is very true

I just hope more people catch on very soon


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

While they cannot jail people until they do something, can they at least move them to a sanctuary college campus or with anti-islamophobe advocates? 

Maybe love will help these radicals and I think it's a good start to heal!


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Jeremeh Corbyn :heston

The year is 2017 in case anyone forgot. Terrorists aren't gonna give up jihad on the UK after going on 20 years of open warfare if some idiot communist becomes prime minister and actually manages to implement a so-called non-interventionist foreign policy for a considerable amount of time

The ideology that causes jihad is not a reactionary ideology it is an aggressively expansionistic utopian ideology much like communism or Nazism or classical liberalism

Nazis/fascists don't leave you alone if you leave them alone
Commies don't leave you alone if you leave them alone
Classical liberalism acts like the people yearning to be free will leave you alone if you respect their individual and collective freedom and human dignity but really that's a lie
Jihadis aren't gonna leave you alone if you leave them alone

When it comes to foreign relations the propensity for such ideologies to cause conflict is much greater than it is inside a single society. All four of those have caused plenty of ruckuses anyway, domestically and internationally


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

Maajid interview where he speaks the kind of common sense many appeasers on his side don't.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

> Today, he spoke to Good Morning Britain’s Kate Garraway and Ben Shephard telling them that “enough is enough” and more must be done to combat terrorism.
> 
> Speaking of the moment he feared his wife had lost her life, he commented: “My daughter Darcey rang me within five minutes and said mum wasn’t answering her phone. I immediately knew something was wrong.
> 
> ...


http://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/809064/Manchester-bombing-terror-attack-Alison-Howe-husband-Good-Morning-Britain


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Miss Sally said:


> While they cannot jail people until they do something, can they at least move them to a sanctuary college campus or with anti-islamophobe advocates?
> 
> Maybe love will help these radicals and I think it's a good start to heal!


The BM kind of leftists don't see the hypocrisy of advocating for incarceration for "hateful" speech but letting terrorists walk free despite committing conspiracy to commit mass murder.

I see a difference between someone involved in hate speech versus someone that is openly involved in terrorism plots and I know most people can as well.


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

deepelemblues said:


> Jeremeh Corbyn :heston
> 
> The year is 2017 in case anyone forgot. Terrorists aren't gonna give up jihad on the UK after going on 20 years of open warfare if some idiot communist becomes prime minister and actually manages to implement a so-called non-interventionist foreign policy for a considerable amount of time
> 
> ...


You might want to actually read the article. He's ready fight ISIS, what he's not ready to do is topple more regimes and create more terrorists. You see the difference there? Nice try though, at this point anybody who thinks Theresa May is a better option for both national security AND the people is just a partisan hack.


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

yeahbaby! said:


> Arrested and thrown into jail - no. More intervention than just a watch list - yes. Have investigators go out and interview him perhaps, follow a process designed by anti-terrorism experts or something.


The fucked up thing is that if hes expressing extremist opinions, that's hate speech anyway as far as I can make out the law here. Our police/government seriously dropped the fucking ball on this one. I've said before that your Democrats and our Conservatives line up pretty well politically, these Tories are fucked up, authoritarian (see: Theresa May wanting to restrict internet to what her and her cronies consider "acceptable") pandering to every side to try and keep them quiet whilst they line their pockets. Terrible with money, so intertwined with the media and big business that Rupert Murdoch said something along the lines of (paraphrased) "I love the Conservatives because when I go to number 10 they do what I say." Sound like anybody in the US politically?


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Iconoclast said:


> The BM kind of leftists don't see the hypocrisy of advocating for incarceration for "hateful" speech but letting terrorists walk free despite committing conspiracy to commit mass murder.
> 
> I see a difference between someone involved in hate speech versus someone that is openly involved in terrorism plots and I know most people can as well.


Yeah because that is what i said LOL

Typical reaper cant even be honest once again


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

RavishingRickRules said:


> You might want to actually read the article. He's ready fight ISIS, what he's not ready to do is topple more regimes and create more terrorists. You see the difference there? Nice try though, at this point anybody who thinks Theresa May is a better option for both national security AND the people is just a partisan hack.


Anyone who thinks jeremeh is better is simply blind. What's he going to fight ISIS with? Rubber boats and slingshots? You're aware of his opinion on defense spending, right? It's not just anti trident. 

You really believe that he's going to cast aside 40 years of his crusty anachronistic ideology to fight isis? Please. In any case, his base would never accept such racist imperialist behavior as actually using soldiers and weapons to fight a war on foreign soil. You are sooooooo blind to who and what Corbyn is and who and what his base of support in the labour party is.


----------



## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867795878203076609


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## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

deepelemblues said:


> Jeremeh Corbyn :heston
> 
> The year is 2017 in case anyone forgot. Terrorists aren't gonna give up jihad on the UK after going on 20 years of open warfare if some idiot communist becomes prime minister and actually manages to implement a so-called non-interventionist foreign policy for a considerable amount of time
> 
> ...


Had the UK and the US listened to Jeremy Corbyn 15 years ago ISIS wouldn’t even exist.

What is it you’re calling for exactly? A middle eastern invasion? A declaration of war on Islam? 

Corbyn is preaching the same message Le Pen and Trump were selling although unlike the Donald he actually has a track record which suggests he won’t sell out at the first opportunity. He’s long been opposed to the blatantly corrupt, self-serving relationships with the gulf states and has called out their own repressive Islamic laws. If you want to defeat ISIS we should probably stop agreeing the biggest arms deals in history with their sponsors. 

ISIS are taking huge losses of late as it is – Of course this isn’t being reported because it’s not the coalition inflicting them. If we stopped backing (as Corbyn would) the “moderate rebels” then perhaps we could allow the only credible ground forces in Syria (SDF and SAA) to go about removing ISIS from the country and isolating them further. This won’t happen under the Tories or just about any potential US administration.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Muslim terrorists have existed since Islam has existed. 

Pakistani Muslim terrorists have existed since the 40s as during the partition there was a massacre of millions by Muslim and Hindu extremists. The entire Pakistan/India split was caused by islamism and Islamist terrorism in Kashmir and Bangladesh has existed since the 50s.

Palestinian Muslim terrorists have existed since the 1950s. 

Iranian Muslim terrorists that wiped out their entire civil society have existed since the 70s meaning they started coming into power in the 60s. 

Al qaeda has existed since the 70s.

Mujahideen have existed since 1980s.

Taliban have existed since the 80s.

ISIS started getting strong in the 2000s bit their ideologies have existed since the massacre at Kerbela and Muhammad's grandson. 

The modern Muslim violence has existed since the 40s in the modern era at least.

This is why ignorance of history is so dangerous because people like the poster above create their own fantastical version of history. Leaders who blame just the West's intervention which did play a part as the only cause of ISIS are simply idiots at this point.


----------



## starsfan24 (Dec 4, 2016)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/868164986887176192
Looks like there will be a benefit concert coming soon.


----------



## MillionDollarProns (Feb 10, 2011)

Goddess Ariana Grande is going to perform a benefit concert in Manchester.

But what if...


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Read this in the morning: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ssed-opportunities-intelligence-a7755056.html

I tried to summarise but honestly the entirety of the article itself is appalling:



> British counter-terror agencies missed several chances to stop Salman Abedi before he carried out the Manchester Arena bombing, it has emerged.
> 
> Two people who knew the 22-year-old at college called the anti-terror hotline after he told them "being a suicide bomber was okay".
> 
> ...


Simply unacceptable that he wasn't arrested. Enough of scoping a guy out, enough of holding off to see if he can provide intel - a documented timeline of flag raising behaviour (at one point literally!) needs to end with somebody in handcuffs. Multiple reports from multiple sources within his community went ignored, and I'm sorry to say it's simply inexcusable that nothing was done.


----------



## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)




----------



## Slickback (Jun 17, 2015)

Katy Perry looks disgusting now, and her video sickens me


----------



## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

Let her go to the sandbox without her bodyguards and caravan of bullet resistant Escolades and live amongst the people.


----------



## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

Jay Valero said:


> Let her go to the sandbox without her bodyguards and caravan of bullet resistant Escolades and live amongst the people.


Please. People like her won't even do that in this country.


----------



## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

virus21 said:


> Please. People like her won't even do that in this country.


No shit. Have you seen her house? It's got a gate like Fort Knox. "No barriers" my ass.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Concept of private property only applies to rich and wealthy. Poor folk who have to live with the refugees as they move into their ghettos.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Evidently 18 major terrorist attacks have been thwarted in the U.K. in 2017 thus far, with the London Westminster vehicular attack and the Manchester arena bombing being the two which slipped through.


The number of wounded is now at 120 with as many as 25 remaining in critical condition.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ttack-counter-terrorism-islamic-a7753946.html



> Salman Abedi's younger brother arrested in Libya over alleged Isis links
> 
> Security forces say Hashem Abedi was planning an attack on the capital, Tripoli



Have read similar estimates to this in the past for the U.K. Doubtful that anyone is capable of formulating the number with any great degree of exactitude. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/868212414797549572


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

23,000 seems like too much of an exact number. I've heard estimates up to around 30,000 but nobody can really know the exact figure.

Either way, whether 30, 20 or 5 thousand, it's still terrifying nonetheless.


----------



## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

L-DOPA said:


> 23,000 seems like too much of an exact number. I've heard estimates up to around 30,000 but nobody can really know the exact figure.
> 
> Either way, whether 30, 20 or 5 thousand, it's still terrifying nonetheless.


I think we can all agree that whatever the actual number, it's too many.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

DesolationRow said:


> Evidently 18 major terrorist attacks have been thwarted in the U.K. in 2017 thus far, with the London Westminster vehicular attack and the Manchester arena bombing being the two which slipped through.
> 
> 
> The number of wounded is now at 120 with as many as 25 remaining in critical condition.
> ...



18 attacks? 23k jihadists and jihadists returning from the Mid East after being involved with ISIS? 

PFFT! What about the Christians! West Boro etc!


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

DesolationRow said:


> Evidently 18 major terrorist attacks have been thwarted in the U.K. in 2017 thus far, with the London Westminster vehicular attack and the Manchester arena bombing being the two which slipped through.
> 
> 
> The number of wounded is now at 120 with as many as 25 remaining in critical condition.
> ...


There was bomb scare on thursday in my home town of Bristol causing the city centre to be evacuted. 

The one thing we are good at is stop them most of the time but we need to crack down on the people causing this. But it hard to fight gurillea warfare as a lot of the time it is people turned in this country.


----------



## Rugrat (Jun 30, 2013)

I don't think the Jihadist figure is much to worry about. Jihad translates from Arabic to English as "to struggle" and the origin of the word Jihad was someone who was trying to live the Islam faith without sin. Obviously this has been turned into a force for evil by a minority, but is that any different from Islam itself?


----------



## wkdsoul (Apr 2, 2012)

Police raided another 2 gaffs down the road (within a 1/2 - 1 mile) of the house again this morning, All you can hear out the windows is police choppers.


----------



## embarassed fan (Sep 26, 2016)

* so people have been putting up false charity GoFundMe's to make money off donors *


----------



## embarassed fan (Sep 26, 2016)

wkdsoul said:


> Police raided another 2 gaffs down the road (within a 1/2 - 1 mile) of the house again this morning, All you can hear out the windows is police choppers.


 thanks for the news.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

birthday_massacre said:


> Arrest him on what? Are you talking precrime here like in Minority Report?
> 
> Were there texts or emails or evidence of him planning an attack?


Dude his WHOLE fucking family and friends kept telling EVERYONE he was dangerous, so yes those who knew have blood on their hands. There is no way around this entire thing those in power were repeatedly warned the guy was dangerous and had potential to be a violent offender. There was evidence he was planning stuff but for some reason these warning signs were ignored and now 22 people are DEAD.....22 lives snuffed out that didn't have to be and all because those who are meant to protect us failed so horrendously


----------



## wkdsoul (Apr 2, 2012)

embarassed fan said:


> thanks for the news.


Seems to be all done and dusted for the day. Area been very quiet since this morning. Police all off to the various tributes and events in town i would think.

Seeing armed police in the centre is probably supposed to be comforting, it really isnt for me.


----------



## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

Iconoclast said:


> Muslim terrorists have existed since Islam has existed.
> 
> Pakistani Muslim terrorists have existed since the 40s as during the partition there was a massacre of millions by Muslim and Hindu extremists. The entire Pakistan/India split was caused by islamism and Islamist terrorism in Kashmir and Bangladesh has existed since the 50s.
> 
> ...


What the fuck? 

First off if your going to mention me at least fucking quote me. Secondly, I'm talking about ISIS in it's current form, not Islamic extremism, a group formed after the Iraq war when it was initially made up mostly of Iraqi soldiers left with nothing after de-baathification. They were able to exploit the power vacuum left in Iraq and the instability in Libya/Syria to claim unprecedented amounts of territory any as well as unprecedented financial resources/support for a terrorist organisation. That is what can be blamed Western Policy, not the ideology itself.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Irish Jet said:


> What the fuck?
> 
> First off if your going to mention me at least fucking quote me. Secondly, I'm talking about ISIS in it's current form, not Islamic extremism, a group formed after the Iraq war when it was initially made up mostly of Iraqi soldiers left with nothing after de-baathification. They were able to exploit the power vacuum left in Iraq and the instability in Libya/Syria to claim unprecedented amounts of territory any as well as unprecedented financial resources/support for a terrorist organisation. That is what can be blamed Western Policy, not the ideology itself.


And I've already addressed this a million times. 

The ideology created the terrorist. The west only supplied the means. Without a violent religious ideology, the existence of the means would be meaningless. This is why western liberation in non-Muslim countries have been largely successful - because there was no mass-murdering violent ideologues ready to take over. 

Gross over-simplification to simply say that these people wouldn't be killing or attempting to become powerful. The only thing the west did was speed up the process and that's it. Islamist terrorists have been powerful for 80+ years now and have been committing similar acts all over the middle east for those 80 years. Just because you found out about a new group in the 2010's and never heard about other muslim terrorists doesn't mean that burying your heads in the sand wouldn't have resulted in the same crisis 10-20-30 years from now. 

All you did was speed it up. Didn't create / anything else.


----------



## Jam (Nov 6, 2015)

> Firefighters have spoken of their shame and anger after they said they were held back by bosses from helping victims at the Manchester Arena following the bombing.
> 
> No crews arrived at the scene.until 90 minutes after the 10.33pm attack that left 22 dead and 120 injured.In an email to County Fire Officer, Peter O’Reilly just hours after the attack, one fireman says: ‘The more I see of the news the angrier I’m getting! What are we employed for if not to help people? I always classed us as the best emergency service, the people who would put ourselves at risk before any other service. I feel ashamed today.
> 
> They prepared to go to the scene, but were instead told to rendezvous at Philips Park station. They waited there for an hour, and were told they had to wait for ‘specialists’ who had bulletproof overalls to arrive from Leigh and Heywood before being sent back to Manchester Central.


Smh


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...er-suicide-bomber-used-student-loan-benefits/



> Exclusive: Manchester suicide bomber used student loan and benefits to fund terror plot
> 
> 
> By Robert Mendick, Chief Reporter ;
> ...


----------



## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

Iconoclast said:


> And I've already addressed this a million times.
> 
> The ideology created the terrorist. The west only supplied the means. Without a violent religious ideology, the existence of the means would be meaningless. This is why western liberation in non-Muslim countries have been largely successful - because there was no mass-murdering violent ideologues ready to take over.
> 
> ...



The ideology can’t exist effectively without the means and vice versa. ISIS/Al Qaeda/whoever would have virtually no territory, no oil reserves, no standing army had we not created the power vacuum in Iraq. I’m not disagreeing at all with what the root cause is and I’ve no doubt that terrorism would have continued with or without ISIS, but it would be on a significantly smaller scale if they were still fighting out of their caves in Afghanistan. 

You say we’ve sped it up – Which is essentially all I’m saying as well but it does go beyond that. We’ve directly taken down regimes that have challenged or at least contained the very ideology that needs to be destroyed. You say they’ve always been powerful but in reality that’s total bullshit – Islamic terrorism has grown significantly since 2003 and is causing more deaths globally in recent years than at any point in recorded history – The rate is 5 times of that before the Iraq war and Iraq remains the biggest contributor in terms of terrorist attacks. You can bury your head in that sand as to why that is all you want but Western intervention, in an effort to spread democracy, simply ended up spreading terror.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/18/fivefold-increase-terrorism-fatalities-global-index










The actual Western Intervention is only just scratching the surface – Western Foreign Policy in general has been one shitshow after another when it comes to tackling extremism. Whether it’s been cosying up to the Wahhabis in the Gulf States, Bin Laden’s own Mujahideen or John McCain’s moderate rebels. The West have never found an extremists it wouldn’t support if it suits our own geopolitical agenda. If there was ever a real effort to tackle this ideology it could be done but there simply isn’t.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Irish Jet said:


> The actual Western Intervention is only just scratching the surface – Western Foreign Policy in general has been one shitshow after another when it comes to tackling extremism. Whether it’s been cosying up to the Wahhabis in the Gulf States, Bin Laden’s own Mujahideen or John McCain’s moderate rebels. The West have never found an extremists it wouldn’t support if it suits our own geopolitical agenda. If there was ever a real effort to tackle this ideology it could be done but there simply isn’t.


You're still missing the core point about the ideology itself and the fact that its existence is not caused by western interference and that over time these ideologues would have taken over without the west's influence. 

The west's influence matters, but so does the ideology. 

Take Indonesia for example. No western influence. No western funding and yet the Islamists are starting to come into power organically representing a potential danger to the island and eventually outside of it. 

Of course, the West has played a role, but it's ultimately the ideology that was not created or supported by the west that is responsible for the violence and we're in a situation where the leaders and citizens of the western world have to recognize it in order to effectively end it. 

What is this never ending cycle of self-blame and self-criticism achieving?


----------



## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

Iconoclast said:


> You're still missing the core point about the ideology itself and the fact that its existence is not caused by western interference and that over time these ideologues would have taken over without the west's influence.
> 
> The west's influence matters, but so does the ideology.
> 
> ...


I never stated that The West created or even heavily influenced the ideology itself. I think we’re in agreement that we’ve simply given it room to thrive. 

The issue is you simply can’t tackle extreme Wahhabism when your actively supporting their most influential regimes. You can bet the guys who are supporting ISIL’s ideology financially aren’t the ones blowing themselves up – The benefactors providing the Mosques, the textbooks, the weapons. You’re right that Indonesia haven’t been influenced by the West, but they’ve absolutely been influenced by our allies. It's a pretty horrifying development from a state that was previously held up as an example for secularism. 

An ideology in of itself is harmless – without the resources backing it up it will simply die away or move to the fringes. That’s not a Western issue per say, but it’s one we’ve been all too happy to ignore so long as the regimes in question tow the imperial line. 

The leaders and citizens do have to recognize the flaws in the Religion and I do think we’re too sensitive to challenging the more generally repressive practices. It does amuse me that feminists can’t see the irony of marching with a hijab, attempting to show solidarity with their oppressed comrades, while in Iran actual feminists protest the forced wearing of the same thing. 

There’s certainly a middle ground between total self-criticism and dismissing the entire region as a lost cause. We can’t just dig 1.6 billion holes and be done with it.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Irish Jet said:


> The issue is you simply can’t tackle extreme Wahhabism when your actively supporting their most influential regimes. You can bet the guys who are supporting ISIL’s ideology financially aren’t the ones blowing themselves up – The benefactors providing the Mosques, the textbooks, the weapons. You’re right that Indonesia haven’t been influenced by the West, but they’ve absolutely been influenced by our allies. It's a pretty horrifying development from a state that was previously held up as an example for secularism.


I completely agree with this. The US and other western powers have armed sympathetic governments to the teeth making giving them the arms to carry out the end goal and quest for end of times dominion on Earth (Islam especially where it's not just wahabbism that promises dominion over the earth, but all Sunni and Shia schools do). 

The problem has been ongoing for 80+ years where none of the western governments nor their people have understood the core doctrine of Islam which is to not be ok with a 40-50% majority on earth, but a 100% majority by all means necessary. 

Which is why the list of Islamist terrorist groups is the largest of all religions. 

At the same time, while the arming has been done, it can't be undone and therefore I can at least understand why we're in this unfortunate arms race we're all in. 



> An ideology in of itself is harmless – without the resources backing it up it will simply die away or move to the fringes. That’s not a Western issue per say, but it’s one we’ve been all too happy to ignore so long as the regimes in question tow the imperial line.


Resources that Islamists are capable of making themselves as well. It's not tanks, bombs and missiles that are the face of terror in Europe and even in the middle east. It is home-made bombs, crude devices, cars and trucks. In Afghanistan Russians abandoned millions of arms and then the incompetence of the US military really armed the Taliban. Then a decade ago I saw a video of a guy with a single arm and a leg making guns in a small hut in Peshawar and that's when I realized that this idea that "we're supplying weapons" is completely wrong. Once the technology exists, it's free for anyone with the brains to use and the terrorists are not skill-less brainless buffoons they're made out to be. 

Not the same video, because that one is gone. But you get the idea. 








Spoiler: Where Taliban get their weapons



Hand made weapons the World's largest market
Darra Adam Khel (Pashto: درہ آدم خیل‎) is a town in Frontier Region Kohat within the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) of Pakistan. It has gained fame and notoriety for its bazaar packed with gunsmiths and weapons merchants. The town consists of one main street lined with shops, with some alleys and side streets containing workshops. It is mostly inhabited by Pashtuns of the Afridi clan, the Adamkhel.
Located in between Kohat and Peshawar, a wide variety of firearms are produced in the town, from anti-aircraft guns to pen-guns. Weapons are handmade by individual craftsmen using traditional manufacturing techniques, usually handed down father-to-son. Guns are regularly tested by test-firing into the air.[1] Darra is controlled by the local tribesmen.[2] Darra Adam Khel is an unkempt village of two storey wood and adobe buildings in the sand stone hills near the Kohat Frontier region. It is the gun factory of the Tribal Areas, located around 40 kilometres (25 mi) south of Peshawar on the road to Kohat. The drive takes around forty minutes. Darra (Adam Khel denotes a clan of the Afridi Tribe) is inside Pakistan but has certain special laws as compared to rest of Pakistan. Most of the people here seem to make or sell just one thing, i.e., guns, while the second largest business of the inhabitants is transport.

In the arcades off the main road are workshops. Hundreds of closet-sized rooms where men and boys make working copies of the entire world's guns with nothing more than hand tools and a small drill press. The tools are astonishingly primitive, yet the forges turn out accurate reproduction of every conceivable sort of weapon, from pen pistols and hand-grenades to automatic rifles and anti-aircraft guns. The copies are so painstakingly reproduced that even the serial number of the original is carried over. A Darra gunsmith, given a rifle he hasn't seen before, can duplicate it in around ten days. Once the first copy is made, each additional copy takes two or three days due to the templates created. Handguns, being more complex, take a little longer.

In Darra, almost three-fourths of the people are in the gun trade. Pen pistols and walking stick guns are popular here. Around 400-700 guns are made in Darra each day and the number is rising with the adoption of more tools. These guns are more than enough for the Pashtuns themselves. Many guns find their way to and from Afghanistan. In the 1980s, heroin was shut down in the markets after consultation with the tribal elders due to foreign pressure, but guns, known as the ornaments of a Pashtun, could not be eliminated. Manufacturing of heavy ammunition, however, has been closed down.

Travel by foreigners to Darra is forbidden due to security reasons. Travelers can drive by bus or car through Darra without a permit but it is not advisable because tribal police (Khasadar) visits the market to check for any locale rules and law violation. foreigner without permits are taken to secure places to avoid any mishaps.

The Darra arms trade first fired up in 1897. This arms trade has won a fame for the Adam Khel Afridis who are the major inhabitants of the town.



A big chunk of weapons the terrorists have and claim to have are a result of western nincompoopery in the fight against terror where they lost more battles than they dared to acknowledge. Very little of the arms and ammunition the terrorists currently have were actually supplied to them western governments. Supplying a government with arms is not the same as supplying the terrorists. "Foreign Aid" in cash gifts is far worse because it's easier to launder and transfer to groups the local governments are sympathetic too.

Sales of arms is actually less dangerous than loans and foreign aid. 

There is a wing of Islamist militant that is being armed by the west by proxy of their wars, but the tools of terror in the west are not the tools they're providing - nor the technology. 



> The leaders and citizens do have to recognize the flaws in the Religion and I do think we’re too sensitive to challenging the more generally repressive practices. It does amuse me that feminists can’t see the irony of marching with a hijab, attempting to show solidarity with their oppressed comrades, while in Iran actual feminists protest the forced wearing of the same thing.


Completely agree. Huge populations in the west have completely forgotten any sense of objectivity when it comes to Islam. 



> There’s certainly a middle ground between total self-criticism and dismissing the entire region as a lost cause. We can’t just dig 1.6 billion holes and be done with it.


We don't have to. But we have to exterminate the terrorists with extreme prejudice and close our borders temporarily without our own populations becoming just another tool of the terrorist against our own selves.


----------



## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

I like the word "nincompoopery".


----------



## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

Iconoclast said:


> I completely agree with this. The US and other western powers have armed sympathetic governments to the teeth making giving them the arms to carry out the end goal and quest for end of times dominion on Earth (Islam especially where it's not just wahabbism that promises dominion over the earth, but all Sunni and Shia schools do).
> 
> The problem has been ongoing for 80+ years where none of the western governments nor their people have understood the core doctrine of Islam which is to not be ok with a 40-50% majority on earth, but a 100% majority by all means necessary.
> 
> ...


I can’t speak for certain about what is/isn’t taught in Islamic schools but I imagine there’s varying degrees of how literally that teaching would be implied. Christianity and Judaism both spin similar lines about salvation/inheritance/chosen people etc. but how they’ve been preached and practiced has varied significantly. I’d be very sceptical of the notion that the majority of Muslim’s are preparing for a them vs us death struggle or that they’re being taught as such, could be wrong. 

The issue of arming/unarming is complicated. Cutting of the Saudi’s, Qatar even fucking Turkey would be quite extreme and will most likely leave its own economic vacuum. That’s the reality that needs to be confronted though – The power resides with the financiers who are quite shameless in their resentment of Western values. So long as John McCain and his cronies think Russia and Assad are a bigger threat to the West than those killing Western children the situation will only get worse. There is a lot of self-examining that needs to be done. 

You’re right that the home-grown terrorists will weaponise anything but these groups won’t stand up to modern armies without significant support - They wouldn’t be capable of making any sort of territorial gains. It’s not just weapons either – ISIS and Al Nusra essentially have propaganda divisions, advanced recruitment methods and I agree completely that the “foreign aid” is far too often exploited. 

Exterminating the terrorists is extremely difficult when you’re at odds with the only effective ground force that’s opposed to them. I don’t think we have to align with Putin/Assad so much as we have to get out of their way. How Raqqa is approached will be very interesting. The plan seems to be an SDF/Coalition assault but that’s going to be a bloodbath that I’m not sure the SDF is up for.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

One of the victims had also been in the vicinity for 7/7 and committed suicide recently because of the trauma. It's very heartbreaking.


----------



## wkdsoul (Apr 2, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/artistic-expression/2180642-manchester-charity-art.html


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-security-manchester-arrests-idUSKBN18P0H0



> UK police arrest 16th person in connection with Manchester attack
> 
> 
> British police said on Monday they had arrested a 16th person in connection with the Manchester suicide bombing last week.
> ...


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

DesolationRow said:


> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-security-manchester-arrests-idUSKBN18P0H0


I also heard that the radicalization of the man occurred at the mosque he used to go to where the imam was an extremist in calling for the deaths of unbelievers. But I don't have any legit source for this. It could be wrong.


----------



## The5star_Kid (Mar 4, 2013)

Iconoclast said:


> I also heard that the radicalization of the man occurred at the mosque he used to go to where the imam was an extremist in calling for the deaths of unbelievers. But I don't have any legit source for this. It could be wrong.


As usual you are extremely wrong (As are others like you). The mosque was in an area called Didsbury, where all the organisers and committee members turned themselves over to the police voluntarily and said they were more than happy to be interviewed if the polcie wanted to. 

The imam in fact also released a statement saying that when he gave anti-hate speeches at his mosque, Salman Abedi was openly offended and things got so bad that one of the mosque regulars asked his two adult sons to sit between the true muslim Imam and this so called Muslim Abedi. 

So no, Didsbury mosque was not involved in radicalising this man. I am also curious how someone with even a semblance of intelligence can believe that a guy who takes drugs and is not a practicing Muslim can be labeled an "Islamic" extremist. What is so Islamic about him?


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

The5star_Kid said:


> As usual you are extremely wrong (As are others like you). The mosque was in an area called Didsbury, where all the organisers and committee members turned themselves over to the police voluntarily and said they were more than happy to be interviewed if the polcie wanted to.
> 
> The imam in fact also released a statement saying that when he gave anti-hate speeches at his mosque, Salman Abedi was openly offended and things got so bad that one of the mosque regulars asked his two adult sons to sit between the true muslim Imam and this so called Muslim Abedi.
> 
> So no, Didsbury mosque was not involved in radicalising this man. I am also curious how someone with even a semblance of intelligence can believe that a guy who takes drugs and is not a practicing Muslim can be labeled an "Islamic" extremist. What is so Islamic about him?


What part of "I could be wrong" didn't you understand?

"true Muslim"... Funny ISIS and other terrorists accuse moderates of being fake Muslims as well.


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## The5star_Kid (Mar 4, 2013)

Iconoclast said:


> What part of "I could be wrong" didn't you understand?
> 
> "true Muslim"... Funny ISIS and other terrorists accuse moderates of being fake Muslims as well.


If you knew you could be wrong, why did you not verify the facts? It is pretty easy but that is fine, I helped you.

As for your second paragraph, what is that supposed to mean? One can accuse anyone else on this planet of any or everything, correct? 

For someone to belong to a particular way of life, in this instance, Islam, they have to meet a certain set of criteria. The criteria for Islam is set through the Quran and the sunnah of the Prophet PBUH. There are 1.6 billion + muslims on this planet who do not adhere to the ideology of ISIS, or rather, so called ISIS, a group which is the culmination of arming and fiunding various anti Assad groups in Syria by the US and European powers. They have as much to do with Islam as the Pope does Hinduism. 

So please, think and evaluate before you next post.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

The5star_Kid said:


> If you knew you could be wrong, why did you not verify the facts? It is pretty easy but that is fine, I helped you.
> 
> As for your second paragraph, what is that supposed to mean? One can accuse anyone else on this planet of any or everything, correct?
> 
> ...


If you haven't yet gotten past this age old thoroughly debunked argument then you're destined to live in the future shit hole you create. Dozens of Islamist terrorist groups exist in the world and new ones come into existence every day and yet their terrorism is always uniform. All Muslim countries have similar human rights violations but yeah it has nothing to do with Islam.

Speaking of facts, you should educate yourself on exactly how and why terrorism and Islam have a causal relationship. 

Thankfully there are those of us who are actually born and raised Muslims who know more than you around to at least help make those who aren't completely ignorant make better decisions for the rest of you. 

Now go ahead and create another "this forum is full of racists" thread because that is the extent of your gimmick on this site.


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## The5star_Kid (Mar 4, 2013)

Iconoclast said:


> If you haven't yet gotten past this age old thoroughly debunked argument then you're destined to live in the future shit hole you create. Dozens of Islamist terrorist groups exist in the world and new ones come into existence every day and yet their terrorism is always uniform. All Muslim countries have similar human rights violations but yeah it has nothing to do with Islam.
> 
> Speaking of facts, you should educate yourself on exactly how and why terrorism and Islam have a causal relationship.
> 
> ...


I am going to ask you again and I will keep you asking you until you actually reply:

Can you explain to me what these so called "Islamic" extremist groups or individuals have to do with Islam itself? It would be great if you could find a single verse of the Quran or sahih hadith which promotes the killing of innocent people.

It is a very simple question really and since you claim to be "born and raised as a muslim" you can help enlightenment me and many others as to how someone who is a drug addict or an alcoholic is actually Islamic...and not only that, extremely Islamic, i.e. taking the teachings of Islam to the extreme.

Thank you.


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## The5star_Kid (Mar 4, 2013)

Still waiting...


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## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

The5star_Kid said:


> I am going to ask you again and I will keep you asking you until you actually reply:
> 
> Can you explain to me what these so called "Islamic" extremist groups or individuals have to do with Islam itself? It would be great if you could find a single verse of the Quran or sahih hadith which promotes the killing of innocent people.
> 
> ...


Muslims have increasingly persecuted Christians, Yazidis and Jews more and more each year goes by. Christians are by far the most persecuted religious group in the world with Muslims being the #1 aggressor. Now Muslims have been making their way to Europe and have been committing attacks against the locals.

Quran 

*2:216* - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

*3:56* - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

*3:151* - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

*5:33* - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

*9:5* - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." 

*9:30* - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!" 

*4:95* - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home).Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward " 
^Discourages peaceful Muslims

Unless you're going with the interpretation that non-believers aren't innocent? Which, I suppose is a workaround


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## The5star_Kid (Mar 4, 2013)

Stinger Fan said:


> Muslims have increasingly persecuted Christians, Yazidis and Jews more and more each year goes by. Christians are by far the most persecuted religious group in the world with Muslims being the #1 aggressor. Now Muslims have been making their way to Europe and have been committing attacks against the locals.
> 
> Quran
> 
> ...


First off, Christians are not the most persecuted group. More muslims are killed Christian or western armies than any Muslim army killing Christians. Your facts are so skewed I almsot laughed.

Secondly, I'm glad you brought up all those verses as this is the usual resposne from an Islamaphobe. 

Yet it stil ldoesn ot answer my question...where in the Quran or the sunnah does it say that Muslims but kill innocent people and that it is preferable to do so?

All the verses in the Quran that prescribe fighting are talking about a war situation, where Muslims are even being attacked or must fight against oppressors. This is seen from the context of these verses (when and how they were revealed) and we know the context from the hadith as well as the tafsir of the Quran which takes into account the hadith. Not a single scholar in Islam has ever used these verses to claim that they are "to kill innocent people" or to fight "all the time". It has never been a part of the Islamic school of thought. 

Other verses, such as Surah At Tawbah are talking about punishment that disbelievers will receive in the hereafter. Why does it concern you so much if you A) do not believe in Islam and B) if you have another way of life which may not believe in heaven or hell or maybe you believe in Jesus as your saviour.

Also there is not a single religion on this planet that does not talk about the punishment of the hereafter, so this is not unusual in anyway. 

Second point, for all the verses in the Quran that talk about warfare, there are many that also talk about the peace times and how non Muslims, regardless of their identity should be treated. 

Surah Mumtahanah - "G*od does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes – from dealing kindly and justly with them. Indeed, God loves those who act justly. * God only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion – (forbids) that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers."

Surah Tawbah - "Alms are only for the poor and for the needy and for those employed to collect (the funds) and for bringing hearts together, and for freeing captives (or slaves) and for those in debt and for the cause of God, and for the (stranded) traveler – an obligation (imposed) by God. And God is Knowing and Wise." 

Surah Baqrah - "Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."

Surah Baqrah - "There is no compulsion in religion."

Surah Maidah - "Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind..."

Finally, in response to your claim that Muslims can kill anyone, any time, again, this comes after a verse stating one should fight in a just war:

Surah Al Anfal - "But if they incline to peace, you also incline to it"

I have purposefully used some of the same surahs you quoted, to give a full version of what each surah is and what it says. 

Ultimately, we also see the justice we must show to all people, regardless of faith through the example of Porphet Muhammad PBUH and I could be here for hours quoting all his hadith on tolerance but if you are an honest individual then those verses should be enough for you.


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## BigDaveBatista (Aug 23, 2015)

The5star_Kid said:


> First off, Christians are not the most persecuted group. More muslims are killed Christian or western armies than any Muslim army killing Christians. Your facts are so skewed I almsot laughed.
> 
> Secondly, I'm glad you brought up all those verses as this is the usual resposne from an Islamaphobe.
> 
> ...


i suppose you are not aware of how islam started and was spread?


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

BigDaveBatista said:


> i suppose you are not aware of how islam started and was spread?


They forgot this lesson on Muslim Sunday school because Mohamed did this very thing, killed and enslaved the very people who tolerated him.


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## BigDaveBatista (Aug 23, 2015)

Miss Sally said:


> They forgot this lesson on Muslim Sunday school because Mohamed did this very thing, killed and enslaved the very people who tolerated him.


not even that mate, although that is horrid as well 
im talking about the murderous rampage they had through north africa all the way to spain under the various calaphates 
war has been a fundamental part of islam since its inception


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## The Dazzler (Mar 26, 2007)

The Manchester concert starts in just under three hours. Hopefully nothing happens. There will be lots of police there this time.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Miss Sally said:


> They forgot this lesson on Muslim Sunday school because Mohamed did this very thing, killed and enslaved the very people who tolerated him.


Oh they teach it to us. They just don't tell us specifically that killing in the name of Islam is wrong because it isn't. 

I was indoctrinated into Islam in Pakistan and I too went through the education of Islam's history. They just never made the connection between killing in the name of Islam to it being immoral. 

The message was "fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you". That basically means that if a Muslim nation declares a holy war, then you're obligated to participate in it. This also means that anyone that opposes you or your Islam, then you're obligated to fight against them. And since you have western government supposedly fighting a holy war against Islam, therefore all muslim youth are obligated to fight against them. It's all justified in Islam. 

This is why home-grown terrorists are being raised in western countries and local terrorists kill other muslims. They simply define them as an opposing force at war with them.


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## MillionDollarProns (Feb 10, 2011)

The benefit concert was p. good. Somewhere over the Rainbow :mj2

The good news is, because the UK will do nothing to deter terrorism in the future (except banning the Internet I guess), we're going to get all sorts of awesome benefit concerts. :mark:


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

Wrong thread


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## Dell (Feb 24, 2014)

MillionDollarProns said:


> The benefit concert was p. good. Somewhere over the Rainbow :mj2


It was so fucking good. Ariana a legend at 23.


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

MillionDollarProns said:


> The benefit concert was p. good. Somewhere over the Rainbow :mj2
> 
> The good news is, because the UK will do nothing to deter terrorism in the future *(except banning the Internet I guess)*, we're going to get all sorts of awesome benefit concerts. :mark:


Because seeing meth whores take in the ass is what is causing all this violence. fpalm


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