# Swole on creativity and diversity



## LifeInCattleClass

Here you go you filthy animals - something to sink your teeth into for the new year 

Swole has spoken









Big Swole Says Lack Of Diversity And Structure Led To Her Leaving AEW, Tony Khan Responds | Fightful News


Big Swole discusses her AEW departure.




www.fightful.com





_Swole began by noting that the most emotional moment she had in AEW was when Kenny Omega thanked her for what she did in the Diamante feud and how it made other women in the company more comfortable to pitch ideas.

Swole tied that moment into her final talk with Tony Khan.

"I explained to TK that I didn't want to re-sign because my peace was being disrupted. If anybody knows me or knows myself, if anything is disrupting your peace, it's time to let it go. It might be scared or be hard, but it's time to let it go. When Kenny said that, it was the circle coming to an end because Kenny and I would bump heads sometimes throughout my time in AEW. To end it on that note felt good. It felt wonderful to end it at a place where, we didn't see eye-to-eye, but we were there," she said.

Swole then detailed why she left the company and what she told them in her exit interview.

"My heart just stopped being in it as the reason why I left AEW. I felt like there were a lot of things, and I told them in my exit interview, there are a lot of things that need to change. I know fans of the company don't take criticism well sometimes, certain ones. Know this, this is somebody from the inside, the structure is a little off. It's fine to be loose, but I like to have a little bit more structure. I felt like the women shouldn't have gone through everything they went through just to get on TV or get time. You're signed to this big company, you should get time. All these men are getting time, but the women weren't getting anything or you're not putting people on TV because more people are coming in. Okay, there are more people coming in, but you don't have enough product for all of these people. Now you have all these people sitting around having two or three minute matches on Dark doesn't keep me happy. Shoveling more money doesn't keep a person happy. We've seen time and time again, especially in a place where there's not enough space. There's no writers in a sense. Not everyone is comfortable writing their own things. Closed mouths don't get fed. That's exactly what that environment is. If you are shy and don't know how to write or are not creative, it's not going to work unless they want it to work for you. That's one of their biggest issues," she said.


Along with the lack of structure, Swole saw a bigger issue in AEW and that was a lack of diversity.

"Outside of [lack of structure] their BIGGEST issue, which is diversity. I do not beat around the bush when it comes to diversity and my people. There is no representation, truly, and when there is, it does not come across in the black community as genuine. At all. I don't know why everybody is so afraid to accept it or say it, but it's not a good look. What happens is, you have this wonderful company that treats people like family, but there is nobody that looks like me that is represented at the top and in the room with them. They are not helping to necessarily influence decisions, but to explain why certain slang and certain word shouldn't be said. There is no one else who can explain our culture and experience except for us," she said.

Swole continued, explaining how her daughter helped her recognize even more that there was a lack of representation in AEW.

"I knew something was up when my daughter, who loves watching wrestling, she would watch AEW all the time and seldomly watch WWE. She's not a big fan unless dad [Cedric Alexander] was on TV, which stopped happening after they botched the Hurt Business. She would say, 'Mommy, there is nobody that looks like me on AEW. There's nobody that looks like daddy.' Then she started watching WWE because she saw Bianca and Big E. She saw herself represented. If that wasn't a 'click.' 'You are absolutely right. I don't have an explanation.' It's 2021. Why are people saying, 'it'll take three years for AEW to have a black champ'? This is a scripted sport. It should not take that long if you have been watching WWE for 50+ years and you know what not to do," she said.

Swole said she is "exhausted" with the pandering when it comes to diversity and how it feels like "use this person for a little, they've done what you need, now what's next?"

"I believe that the company is making better strides than before, but a couple of things need to be fixed. You have to be able to call people out because not everything is perfect. I hope they listen to this with an open heart and not just, 'Ah, she's just saying this because of XYZ.' I genuinely want them to succeed. I love this art form. I love wrestling and I want it to succeed and I want the people in it to succeed if they are genuine people. I want WWE to succeed. I want wrestling to flourish and I don't want it to be a long-forgotten, Tartarian sport where 'in the old days, we used to wrestle,' and it's folklore. I want nothing but the best, but I also want the change and application to happen. With promises you made to be diverse, I want to see that. Not just with black people. I would love to see a Latino or Hispanic or more Asians. I feel like Asians and Indians do not get the love. They just don't. It's such a big gap. I hate the fact that I turn on the TV and it's the same stuff over and over again. Hopefully, they get the message. Me leaving, honestly, was not bad. There is no bad blood between TK and I. I just don't like my peace being disrupted. I didn't like certain things and other things that I will take to my grave. The diversity. That's what matters," she said.

Big Swole last wrestled on the September 21 episode of AEW Dark, defeating Allie Katch._


----------



## La Parka

Why do we have a Cody Rhodes reality show when we could have a Kenny Omega reality show featuring Big Swole lecturing Omega on diversity?

This is the content people want to see


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

My 2c - i prefer AEW to stay a creatively driven company - its the indy style which is AEWs spirit

the work is more than in the ring - its coming up with ideas, stories, characters and having the balls to pitch them with confidence

on diversity - IMO (but i’m white, what do i know) - they’ve done a great job organically making their diverse stars ‘must-see’ - and didn’t force anybody down the fans throat just for ’diversity points’ - Hobbs, Dante, Lio, Shida, Jade, Moriarty is all must see for me at the moment as a result

but if you‘re gonna give less over talent like Scorpio and red velvet 30min - 40min a week for diversity points - then i’ll find something else to watch

it does the business and the talent a disservice


----------



## omaroo

Having diversity just for the sake of it to please this cancerous PC world is why I hate such types of people.

She can fuck off btw


----------



## BlueEyedDevil

My mother always told me to consider the source. Since the source was Big Swole I...


----------



## Dickhead1990

So she thinks they need to improve because she isn't able to work proactively and because her daughter doesn't identify with others on the roster?

The "critics" will have a hard time deciding if it fits their agenda or not, as AEW is supposedly an orgy of wokeness to them.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

My question about Swole’s diversity drive was always ‘will she be happy if it wasn’t her’

like - is she happy for Jade and Rosa?

somehow… i have this suspicion she’s not - as she says ‘when there is representation, it does not come across as genuine’


----------



## Krin

she needs to just shut up and start her own wrestling company then. call it DRW , Diversity Representation Wrestling


----------



## Prosper

There are plenty of Asians and Blacks though with one of AEW’s recent tourneys being filled with joshi’s. You got Emi, Shida, Mei, Yuka etc. Jade Cargill and Red Velvet have been used plenty with the former being one of if not the most protected woman in wrestling right now. Lee Moriarty, Jay Lethal, Shawn Dean, Lio Rush, Dante Martin are all diverse signings. Andrade is Latino, Thunder Rosa, Diamanté, Ivelisse, Santana and Ortiz, etc. I’m not seeing this lack of diversity she’s referring to. If you’re talented you’re gonna be scouted, if not then you’re not just gonna be signed because you’re a POC. And on her other point, if you don’t have the creativity to pitch a cool idea or character like Malakai Black is doing then that’s on you.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Krin said:


> she needs to just shut up and start her own wrestling company then. call it DRW , the Diversity Representation Wrestling


aren’t you happy aew is confirmed non-woke? Lolll


----------



## shandcraig

omaroo said:


> Having diversity just for the sake of it to please this cancerous PC world is why I hate such types of people.
> 
> She can fuck off btw



exactly and this mentally someone that feels is not being represented enough is just a toxic mentally and only hurts them more. Tony has tried to pushed a few stupid things because he created them, But he almost always pushes people that are genuinely over and unrelated to how he feels.He just doesnt know how to book them and it always sucks. But the diversity shit is just utter nonsense. You push who is popualr and you dont push someone so we can feel better about themselves. She sucked and there is no one with her background in aew that is main event material at the moment. That is not Tony khans fault and the fact that she feels entitled and yet is not popular says enough. In ricky starks is really the only one that has going to be capable of and deserving of getting a big push and hopefully it happens in the next year. Moose would be another epic big player that would be worth pushing and is legit good and liked. You cater to who your market is to make money or you wont make money. 

I shit on Tony khan a hell of a lot for good reason but one thing i respect is that hes not over pushing shit just to please the 1 percenter twitter cry babies that dont even invest in his company or any other company.


----------



## shandcraig

Prosper said:


> There are plenty of Asians and Blacks though with one of AEW’s recenta tourneys being filled with joshi’s. You got Emi, Shida, Mei, Yuka etc. Jade Cargill and Red Velvet have been used plenty with the former being one of if not the most protected woman in wrestling right now. Lee Moriarty, Jay Lethal, Shawn Dean, Lio Rush, Dante Martin are all diverse signings. Andrade is Latino, Thunder Rosa, Diamanté, Ivelisse, Santana and Ortiz, etc. I’m not seeing this lack of diversity she’s referring to. If you’re talented you’re gonna be scouted, if not then you’re not just gonna be signed because you’re a POC. And on her other point, if you don’t have the creativity to pitch a cool idea or character like Malakai Black is doing then that’s on you.



and the ones being pushed are simply the ones that are popular. Rehio is popular and if he was more in the states aew would continue to push her. Thunder Rosa is fairly popular and shes on her way to the top soon enough. It comes down to who is liked and that is how it should be.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Wow… go Swole.


I expect AEW fans are gonna hate her and every one else that leaves and says similar things in 2022


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jokerface17

Who tf do they want to sign to help with diversity?!

Lethal was the most well known black wrestler currently not signed to WWE was he not?

Can’t just push someone for the sake of having a black champion, fuck out of here


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jobber81

_my peace was being disrupted???_

current day wrestling is a joke...

_Then she started watching WWE because she saw Bianca and Big E. She saw herself represented. _ 

arent you embarassed that Big E represents you? well, as long as he looks like you, thats all you care about...


----------



## La Parka

Dickhead1990 said:


> So she thinks they need to improve because she isn't able to work proactively and because he daughter doesn't identify with others on the roster?
> 
> The "critics" will have a hard time deciding if it fits their agenda or not, as AEW is supposedly an orgy of wokeness to them.


Everyone knows what AEW is. It’s every brand ever.

AEW wants to appear to be feminist because that’s the popular wave right now. 










Every brand follows the above. There’s a reason why companies suddenly started celebrating gays. Every company is a reflective mirror. Whatever the popular opinion is, that company will make sure you know they stand for it.


----------



## Erik.

The creativity thing is quite interesting. 

It also might be a reason why certain talent is just not ever seen on television, the way she describes it seems like if you don't pitch an idea, you're not used. 

The diversity thing is always going to get brought up and I get the arguments but it ends up feeling like a zero sum game. 

You have folks saying "there arent enough black champions" and you go "well so and so was champion" and the counter is always "We shouldnt have to be counting" well whats really the issue? You cant put someone in a position they arent or the audience isnt ready for. 

You would be risking revenue for the sake of saying "well guys, at least we tried to do a good thing". no company on earth would operate in that way. 

It does feel like people take the word diversity and only apply it to one race. Riho, Nyla Rose, Shida were all womens champions, Cargill could now potentially be TBS champion, despite not being ready. - the Lucha Bros are tag team champions, Miro was TNT Champion. Scorpio Sky first Tag Champion etc. 

Big Swole wasn't good enough.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> The creativity thing is quite interesting.
> 
> It also might be a reason why certain talent is just not ever seen on television, the way she describes it seems like if you don't pitch an idea, you're not used.
> 
> The diversity thing is always going to get brought up and I get the arguments but it ends up feeling like a zero sum game.
> 
> You have folks saying "there arent enough black champions" and you go "well so and so was champion" and the counter is always "We shouldnt have to be counting" well whats really the issue? You cant put someone in a position they arent or the audience isnt ready for.
> 
> You would be risking revenue for the sake of saying "well guys, at least we tried to do a good thing". no company on earth would operate in that way.
> 
> It does feel like people take the word diversity and only apply it to one race. Riho, Nyla Rose, Shida were all womens champions, Cargill could now potentially be TBS champion, despite not being ready. - the Lucha Bros are tag team champions, Miro was TNT Champion. Scorpio Sky first Tag Champion etc.
> 
> Big Swole wasn't good enough.


maybe tells you why Brian Cage doesn’t make it to tv

dude’s main pitch is ‘let me destroy everybody’

like, dude… where‘s the nuance


----------



## shandcraig

The thing is there is zero creative in general in the company but if you're not over and some creative idea you have is not going to get you over, you will not be pushed. So i agree that aew has a serious creative problem but there is nothing creative this woman could do that is going to get her over. Some people just dont get over.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Here you go you filthy animals - something to sink your teeth into for the new year
> 
> Swole has spoken
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big Swole Says Lack Of Diversity And Structure Led To Her Leaving AEW, Tony Khan Responds | Fightful News
> 
> 
> Big Swole discusses her AEW departure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fightful.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Swole began by noting that the most emotional moment she had in AEW was when Kenny Omega thanked her for what she did in the Diamante feud and how it made other women in the company more comfortable to pitch ideas.
> 
> Swole tied that moment into her final talk with Tony Khan.
> 
> "I explained to TK that I didn't want to re-sign because my peace was being disrupted. If anybody knows me or knows myself, if anything is disrupting your peace, it's time to let it go. It might be scared or be hard, but it's time to let it go. When Kenny said that, it was the circle coming to an end because Kenny and I would bump heads sometimes throughout my time in AEW. To end it on that note felt good. It felt wonderful to end it at a place where, we didn't see eye-to-eye, but we were there," she said.
> 
> Swole then detailed why she left the company and what she told them in her exit interview.
> 
> "My heart just stopped being in it as the reason why I left AEW. I felt like there were a lot of things, and I told them in my exit interview, there are a lot of things that need to change. I know fans of the company don't take criticism well sometimes, certain ones. Know this, this is somebody from the inside, the structure is a little off. It's fine to be loose, but I like to have a little bit more structure. I felt like the women shouldn't have gone through everything they went through just to get on TV or get time. You're signed to this big company, you should get time. All these men are getting time, but the women weren't getting anything or you're not putting people on TV because more people are coming in. Okay, there are more people coming in, but you don't have enough product for all of these people. Now you have all these people sitting around having two or three minute matches on Dark doesn't keep me happy. Shoveling more money doesn't keep a person happy. We've seen time and time again, especially in a place where there's not enough space. There's no writers in a sense. Not everyone is comfortable writing their own things. Closed mouths don't get fed. That's exactly what that environment is. If you are shy and don't know how to write or are not creative, it's not going to work unless they want it to work for you. That's one of their biggest issues," she said.
> 
> 
> Along with the lack of structure, Swole saw a bigger issue in AEW and that was a lack of diversity.
> 
> "Outside of [lack of structure] their BIGGEST issue, which is diversity. I do not beat around the bush when it comes to diversity and my people. There is no representation, truly, and when there is, it does not come across in the black community as genuine. At all. I don't know why everybody is so afraid to accept it or say it, but it's not a good look. What happens is, you have this wonderful company that treats people like family, but there is nobody that looks like me that is represented at the top and in the room with them. They are not helping to necessarily influence decisions, but to explain why certain slang and certain word shouldn't be said. There is no one else who can explain our culture and experience except for us," she said.
> 
> Swole continued, explaining how her daughter helped her recognize even more that there was a lack of representation in AEW.
> 
> "I knew something was up when my daughter, who loves watching wrestling, she would watch AEW all the time and seldomly watch WWE. She's not a big fan unless dad [Cedric Alexander] was on TV, which stopped happening after they botched the Hurt Business. She would say, 'Mommy, there is nobody that looks like me on AEW. There's nobody that looks like daddy.' Then she started watching WWE because she saw Bianca and Big E. She saw herself represented. If that wasn't a 'click.' 'You are absolutely right. I don't have an explanation.' It's 2021. Why are people saying, 'it'll take three years for AEW to have a black champ'? This is a scripted sport. It should not take that long if you have been watching WWE for 50+ years and you know what not to do," she said.
> 
> Swole said she is "exhausted" with the pandering when it comes to diversity and how it feels like "use this person for a little, they've done what you need, now what's next?"
> 
> "I believe that the company is making better strides than before, but a couple of things need to be fixed. You have to be able to call people out because not everything is perfect. I hope they listen to this with an open heart and not just, 'Ah, she's just saying this because of XYZ.' I genuinely want them to succeed. I love this art form. I love wrestling and I want it to succeed and I want the people in it to succeed if they are genuine people. I want WWE to succeed. I want wrestling to flourish and I don't want it to be a long-forgotten, Tartarian sport where 'in the old days, we used to wrestle,' and it's folklore. I want nothing but the best, but I also want the change and application to happen. With promises you made to be diverse, I want to see that. Not just with black people. I would love to see a Latino or Hispanic or more Asians. I feel like Asians and Indians do not get the love. They just don't. It's such a big gap. I hate the fact that I turn on the TV and it's the same stuff over and over again. Hopefully, they get the message. Me leaving, honestly, was not bad. There is no bad blood between TK and I. I just don't like my peace being disrupted. I didn't like certain things and other things that I will take to my grave. The diversity. That's what matters," she said.
> 
> Big Swole last wrestled on the September 21 episode of AEW Dark, defeating Allie Katch._


Good to see some insight from a former wrestler where it's not all ass kissing or shit talking but......

The womans division wasnt good enough to be on tv period.....like you had a few girls who could work but the majority were sub par. Absolutely NO REASON for them to get time over the bigger stars or men who could actually wrestle. 

The womans division is much better currently and has a few girls I like watching but personally Womans wrestling is always secondary to mens. Currently the division is better but I'd still rather watch better mens matches most of the time outside the like top 7 females. 

Diversity

I myself am multicultural and find no issue with diversity theres latin,black, white,Asian, Indian people on the show. Where are all these elite black wrestlers that should be the focal point? I'm all for inclusion and diversity when its warranted but there shouldn't be people of color just to say "hey look we black people and Latinos too!!" 

The talent level is all that matters imo


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

shandcraig said:


> The thing is there is zero creative in general in the company but if you're not over and some creative idea you have is not going to get you over, you will not be pushed. So i agree that aew has a serious creative problem but there is nothing creative this woman could do that is going to get her over. Some people just dont get over.


are you sure? russo could’ve written an amazing script for her followed by a wedding and a car crash or something


----------



## shandcraig

LifeInCattleClass said:


> are you sure? russo could’ve written an amazing script for her followed by a wedding and a car crash or something


and a if it was good it would be good for the creative element.Just because creative becomes good it does not magically mean everyone becomes over. Some people will never get over and that is the reality of the game. For her sake anything of course is possible just like with anyone else, But reality is its just un likely. She tried really hard to get noticed and in fact her character i would say stood out and was unique to her own,But she was just not liked. That is a very fair way of me to put it


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

I ain't even gonna lie. Everytime I hear about this bitch, it's the same shit. "DiVeRsitY!"


----------



## $Dolladrew$

shandcraig said:


> and a if it was good it would be good for the creative element.Just because creative becomes good it does not magically mean everyone becomes over. Some people will never get over and that is the reality of the game. For her sake anything of course is possible just like with anyone else, But reality is its just un likely. She tried really hard to get noticed and in fact her character i would say stood out and was unique to her own,But she was just not liked. That is a very fair way of me to put it


Every "creative " has its draw backs

Vince = say what your told to say exactly how I told you to say it you have no input.

TK= Say what you want how you want just let me give the ok.

Wwe you have to just make what they give you work to get over

AEW its up to you to come up with stuff to get over.


No creative is perfect and swole isn't a good wredtler tbh.

Her character is a female member of those pancake flipping buffoons it was annoying AF and couple that with how much she whines on the internet the fans just hated her.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

NathanMayberry said:


> Wow… go Swole.
> 
> 
> I expect AEW fans are gonna hate her and every one else that leaves and says similar things in 2022
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Man fuck this bitch. She don't talk about nothing new. It's the same shit. But hey, jump on that bandwagon! Maybe you can be her 5th fan!!


----------



## Lorromire

A couple of points.

1. She knows it's a creative-driven company in the sense that wrestlers need to pitch ideas, but this is a problem for her because she can't come up with ideas, so therefore it's AEW's fault and they should fix it. Okay? Wouldn't you just instead try to come up with a story and get yourself on TV? If The Bunny can get on TV then you can too.

2. Women aren't getting enough time. I can agree, but at the same time, there aren't enough higher-level women on the roster to warrant it. I would kill for more Thunder Rosa matches on TV, though.

3. Too many people on the roster to make it to TV. Yep, too many getting rotated in and out when it matters.

4. No diversity, despite the diversity being in the company. She clearly meant no black diversity in the main event, which is true, but that's due to the fact that the black talent on the roster aren't main event level. Show me a single male wrestler who can warrant taking up a main event spot on AEW. The only black female wrestler that I can see being near the top is Jade Cargill, and she's still green as fuck, so it's obvious that they should hold off on that until she's more prepped. Granted, her match with Thunder Rosa was better than her other recent matches, so hopefully that's a good sign.

5. Using her child for sympathy points, that's low as fuck. That goes back to the point above, who is there to push? Who on the indies could they sign to fill that black figure? Jonathan Gresham is a potential, but he's ROH Champ and I doubt they'd put it on him if he was gonna sign with another company. Jay Lethal is a possibility, but he's past his prime. I'm not sure who else is even at that level.

6. She talks about how every race needs to be better represented. Riho and Shida were AEW Champs for ages, Thunder Rosa is a strong figure on the roster. For the men, sure, I'd kill for PnP to be Tag Champs, but even then we have Lucha Bros, Andrade, and Dante Martin in fairly prominent positions. Again, it just seems like she's only thinking about the black side of it despite trying to say "Oh what about these". It's fair that she is going on about diversity, I get it, but the WORST thing you can do is take a random guy/girl and put them in the top position when they don't have the skills to warrant it, the crowd would shit on it so hard.
Edit: I forgot to mention that Sammy Guevara was just TNT Champ. You also have Hobbs, Scorpio Sky, The Acclaimed, etc, etc. Plenty of diversity in the company.

She comes off as super entitled and thinks that she/black people should be represented in top positions only, it's weird. I'm all for giving more TV time to diverse talents, if their skills are up to par. Having Jay Lethal in a storyline where he can be a TV regular would be great.


----------



## rbl85

_"I would love to see a Latino or Hispanic or more Asians. I feel like Asians and Indians do not get the love."_
2 asian women we're champ and the current AEW tag champ are latinos....


----------



## shandcraig

rbl85 said:


> _"I would love to see a Latino or Hispanic or more Asians. I feel like Asians and Indians do not get the love."_
> 2 asian women we're champ and the current AEW tag champ are latinos....


I would say Mexicans or latinas are one of the more over women wrestlers than any other background. You hire who drives you business.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I might come across badly to some here but my feeling is that you shouldn't push someone simply based on race. AEW doesn't have any black wrestlers to my knowledge that could be the AEW World Heavyweight Champion.

Now if Big E was released tomorrow, signed to AEW and wasn't in their World Title picture THEN you could argue it's a lack of diversity but for right now it's a lack of talent. AEW doesn't really have any great non white wrestlers (And by great I mean superstar potential)


----------



## Peerless

Wrestling is about getting yourself over. If you aren't creative enough to do that then you have no business being a wrestler. Go back to doing flips in some bingo hall. 

Also winning titles should be based on merit not the color of your skin. If there was an over black wrestler who was credible and wasn't getting a deserved push, then you have a right to be alarmed, but there wasn't.

Black wrestlers on AEW:
Sonny Kiss, Shawn Dean, Scorpio Sky, Hobbs, The Acclaimed, Private Party, Lee Johnson, Lee Moriarty, and Jay Lethal. 

Not a single one of these people are main event players. Maybe Hobbs has potential in the future, and Lethal is talented, but the rest are Janela levels of mid. Yeah, let's not make Jericho/Mox/Omega/Page champs but an inferior talent who will not draw because muh diversity. gtfo.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

NathanMayberry said:


> Wow… go Swole.
> 
> 
> I expect AEW fans are gonna hate her and every one else that leaves and says similar things in 2022
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ummmm....you're forgetting everyone already hated her lol

She has no fans

Go ahead and look at the thread fir her announcing shes leaving aew.....notva single person will miss her. 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## DUD

She'd have a great point if it's wasn't for Jade Cargill, Thunder Rosa, Hikaru Shida, Riho, Sammy Guevara, Pentagon, Fenix, Miro, Scorpio Sky and others getting title opportunities.

If you're trying to make the point your daughter doesn't see anything in herself in anybody other than black wrestlers and you ignore a black woman that looks as impressive as Jade Cargill then that's on you as a parent.


----------



## shandcraig

Chip Chipperson said:


> I might come across badly to some here but my feeling is that you shouldn't push someone simply based on race. AEW doesn't have any black wrestlers to my knowledge that could be the AEW World Heavyweight Champion.
> 
> Now if Big E was released tomorrow, signed to AEW and wasn't in their World Title picture THEN you could argue it's a lack of diversity but for right now it's a lack of talent. AEW doesn't really have any great non white wrestlers (And by great I mean superstar potential)





Chip Chipperson said:


> I might come across badly to some here but my feeling is that you shouldn't push someone simply based on race. AEW doesn't have any black wrestlers to my knowledge that could be the AEW World Heavyweight Champion.
> 
> Now if Big E was released tomorrow, signed to AEW and wasn't in their World Title picture THEN you could argue it's a lack of diversity but for right now it's a lack of talent. AEW doesn't really have any great non white wrestlers (And by great I mean superstar potential)


Its like saying we should push scorpio sky to the main event because hes black. When in fact hes near the bottom and no one gives a shit about him and he has no reason to be pushed. People want a free seasons pass. Come up with something good and you will get pushed, end of story. But many people in general cant provide this.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Chip Chipperson said:


> I might come across badly to some here but my feeling is that you shouldn't push someone simply based on race. AEW doesn't have any black wrestlers to my knowledge that could be the AEW World Heavyweight Champion.
> 
> Now if Big E was released tomorrow, signed to AEW and wasn't in their World Title picture THEN you could argue it's a lack of diversity but for right now it's a lack of talent. AEW doesn't really have any great non white wrestlers (And by great I mean superstar potential)


I wouldn't even put him in the title picture that fool isn't all that good and goofy as fuck with DDD titties lol.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> *I might come across badly to some here but my feeling is that you shouldn't push someone simply based on race. *AEW doesn't have any black wrestlers to my knowledge that could be the AEW World Heavyweight Champion.
> 
> Now if Big E was released tomorrow, signed to AEW and wasn't in their World Title picture THEN you could argue it's a lack of diversity but for right now it's a lack of talent. AEW doesn't really have any great non white wrestlers (And by great I mean superstar potential)


I think everyone here can agree on this point. The closest black talents relative to the main event scene are Scorpio Sky and Jade Cargill and neither of them are even close to ready. And Big E sucks he shouldn't even be in the main event picture in WWE.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

shandcraig said:


> Its like saying we should push scorpio sky to the main event because hes black. When in fact hes near the bottom and no one gives a shit about him and he has no reason to be pushed. People want a free seasons pass. Come up with something good and you will get pushed, end of story. But many people in general cant provide this.


Exactly right, I understand Swole's point about wanting black representation on the show but AEW kind of does have that. Maybe not featured as much as she'd like but nobody really is featured that much due to monster roster.

I don't think Tony is a racist though or doing this deliberately. If he came across the next black superstar he'd push him to the moon.


----------



## Peerless

You know if the reason vanilla midgets aren't on TV is that they are too bland to pitch any ideas how the hell does Dante Martin get TV time? There's no way he's coming up with storylines behind the scene.


----------



## Gwi1890

omaroo said:


> Having diversity just for the sake of it to please this cancerous PC world is why I hate such types of people.
> 
> She can fuck off btw


I mentioned this on another thread to a degree, as a black man myself I would like to think that I would be given a opportunity be it in a job interview or sports whatever based on my ability, I’d feel like fucking shit knowing that someone 10 times as qualified as me didn’t get the job simply because a company wanted to tick the pc route with “hey we have black executives here” AEW currently doesn’t have a top level Black talent that will come in time as they grow and build stars ( which they are) ,let’s not forget one half of the first AEW tag team champions was black, the current Tag champions are Mexican, we’ve had a Bulgarian tnt champion, a Japanese woman's champion, for a 2 year old company that’s pretty diverse.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Peerless said:


> You know if the reason vanilla midgets aren't on TV is that they are too bland to pitch any ideas how the hell does Dante Martin get TV time? There's no way he's coming up with storylines behind the scene.


he might not be - but they want to build a future black star

so surround him with guys like Lio and Taz - who will come up with plenty of story for him

and maybe he is hella creative too - who knows?


----------



## Geert Wilders

Agree with others that one should not be pushed solely because they are an ethnic minority. AEW need to do a better job of hiring. Losers like Jay Lethal, Scorpio Sky, Lio Rush are not going to cut the mustard. However, I know they have several developmental wrestlers on the come up who have the look and hopefully the charisma. I would certainly advocate for an Ogogo push once he returns. I’d like to see our man Hobbs in a more prominent position, as well. He is ready for it. 

the other bits she said is an interesting and actually believable observation. The lack of structure does certainly reflect itself on TV in my opinion.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> he might not be - but they want to build a future black star
> 
> so surround him with guys like Lio and Taz - who will come up with plenty of story for him
> 
> and maybe he is hella creative too - who knows?


Dante can do crazy things in the ring.

Swole was bad in every aspect of wrestling


----------



## Geert Wilders

Dante Martin is good looking and can wrestle. That’s why he’s getting this push. He’s bland as shit though.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

……. I was browsing the ‘swole’ hastag on twitter

and i see all these opinions and blah blah - and suddenly there is just a dude with his massive cock out and his tweet is ‘my dick is swole tonight’

so…. I’ve had my diversity for the night…. Imma log off now


----------



## adamclark52

thank the Gods for Kevin Owens representing fat white dudes or I'd be pretty upset too


----------



## ProjectGargano

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376
Let's go TK


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376
> Let's go TK


yeesh, TK taking out the big stick


----------



## Dickhead1990

La Parka said:


> Everyone knows what AEW is. It’s every brand ever.
> 
> AEW wants to appear to be feminist because that’s the popular wave right now.
> 
> View attachment 114128
> 
> 
> Every brand follows the above. There’s a reason why companies suddenly started celebrating gays. Every company is a reflective mirror. Whatever the popular opinion is, that company will make sure you know they stand for it.


Well..yeah. I thought that goes without saying really.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*This dumb fuck really doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376*


----------



## 3venflow

I really, _really_ hope Tony Khan doesn't give into these people whose lives revolve around identity politics. Push who is best, not who is black (or any other colour). This is Swole's M.O. to hide the fact she is one of the worst female wrestlers to appear on national TV in modern day history.

It's give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Give them two women's matches per show and they'll demand three.

They are currently prematurely pushing two PoCs - Dante and Jade - who look about 5-10 years before their prime. They have tried many different things with Scorpio Sky and he has been given more big opportunities than many would. Hobbs looks like he could go quite far, maybe TNT title level, but is also green. Ditto Ogogo.

Her not mentioning Shida and Riho being two of the four women's champions says a lot for me - she isn't really interested in diversity, she's interested in black people.

If AEW had Lashley, I think he'd be a potential world champion. But shoehorning someone who doesn't belong there to the top is a great way to lose goodwill. The Twitter minority think they speak for everyone and they don't.

I wonder if Keith Lee might be the black guy they can push to the main event. I have some doubts but he'd probably stand the best chance of those available right now.


----------



## Prosper

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376
> Let's go TK


Damn what a burn. He's just saying what we're all thinking.


----------



## Thomazbr

Geert Wilders said:


> Dante Martin is good looking and can wrestle. That’s why he’s getting this push. He’s bland as shit though.


I wouldn't say he is good looking tbh, but that's just me.
I think it's crazy because I feel like AEW is a very diverse company. We had Japanese champions, hispanic champions, Nyla is a transgender black and billed as native American. Scorpio Sky is part of a heavily featured act. Hobbs and Ogogo are probably destined to be at least TNT champs in the future.
I'm not North American though, so I just think US race scenario is fucking insane.


----------



## Erik.

The Legit Lioness said:


> *This dumb fuck really doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376*


Yeah. Can't defend him here.

He's not wrong but it's just incredibly unnecessary. It would have all blown over in a day or so.


----------



## omaroo

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376
> Let's go TK


Don't agree with this guy most of the time but he's right she can't wrestle. 

She was fucking horrible and just sucked all round.


----------



## Peerless

LMFAOOO at Tony Khan's reply holy shit


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Erik. said:


> Yeah. Can't defend him here.
> 
> He's not wrong but it's just incredibly unnecessary. It would have all blown over in a day or so.


*We know Swole isn't a great wrestler, but the response was completely tone deaf and inappropriate, given the scope of what was being discussed in her criticisms.*


----------



## cai1981

FINALLY someone with enough guts to speak the truth about this cult clown show run by a spoiled rich kid! Swole wasn't the best, but its about time someone told the truth about AEW not being this magical place where everyone is happy!!!


Now, watch Tony "Con" cry on low rent podcasts like "Rasslin' " and "My Mom's Basement" about how she was a problem and so on and so forth...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *This dumb fuck really doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376*


i mean - he definitely had a few beers by now

you gotta forgive some drunk tweets


----------



## Upstart474

When a person is released, you can sometimes find the truth about a promotion. Swole is a decent wrestler but she is not wrong. AEW and Tony Khan is half white, cater exclusively to its caucasian fans. Lets look at the top, all the EVP are white, Rhodes, Young Bucks, and Kenny Omega. All the male champions are white as well. So far, there has not been a black champion in AEW history but that can change when Jade Cargill becomes champion. You also look at the audience, AEW has more caucasian fans then any other promotion because all the champion where it matters are caucasian. I honestly believe AEW has a diversity problem on its hands.


----------



## Erik.

The Legit Lioness said:


> *We know Swole isn't a great wrestler, but the response was completely tone deaf and inappropriate, given the scope of what was being discussed in her criticisms.*


It was clear he didn't read the article. And obvious considering he didn't address any of her other complaints.


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i mean - he definitely had a few beers by now
> 
> you gotta forgive some drunk tweets


He must be drinking some 10% IPA's lol that was aggressive


----------



## DUD

People used to say the same about WWE until they had a grown man dressed as a Unicorn win at WrestleMania.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Upstart474 said:


> When a person is released, you can sometimes find the truth about a promotion. Swole is a decent wrestler but she is not wrong. AEW and Tony Khan is half white, cater exclusively to its caucasian fans. Lets look at the top, all the EVP are white, Rhodes, Young Bucks, and Kenny Omega. All the male champions are white as well. So far, there has not been a black champion in AEW history but that can change when Jade Cargill becomes champion. You also look at the audience, AEW has more caucasian fans then any other promotion because all the champion where it matters are caucasian. I honestly believe AEW has a diversity problem on its hands.


She was the most boring character on AEW, and made that as a race issue ...


----------



## Dickhead1990

The Legit Lioness said:


> *This dumb fuck really doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376*


Honestly, I don't see the problem here. Someone goes and tries to imply that their company is racist, Khan comes in with the facts. As far as put downs go, this is quite diplomatic.

This is just the too common situation of someone gets the sack and tries to pin it on racism.


----------



## Geert Wilders

The Legit Lioness said:


> *This dumb fuck really doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376*


bro…..

TK saying how it is. This attitude is going to create him a tonne of enemies in the industry.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Fuck…. If ever there were 4 hrs that makes the ‘AEW is too woke’ crowd more confused than ever - this had to be it


----------



## Erik.

Britt Baker and MJF retweeted Khan's tweet too.

Heel shit.


----------



## TyAbbotSucks

The Legit Lioness said:


> *This dumb fuck really doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376*


This is a horrible response


----------



## Dickhead1990

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Fuck…. If ever there were 4 hrs that makes the ‘AEW is too woke’ crowd more confused than ever - this had to be it


Do they admit that AEW isn't woke or become a social justice warrior themselves? It is the New Year now, time for a new them I guess lol.


----------



## AthleticGirth

Swole using the race card is sadly predictable - she just makes herself look dumb considering the amount of non white talent AEW showcases. She just wasn't good enough and wasn't able to build up a fanbase of note. 

The criticism of the creative process is more interesting. Jack Evans has tweeted about it before and his frustrations that he's just lousy at coming up with ideas and creative pitches - and felt bad that between that and his injuries he was hurting Angelico. Perhaps creative should be based on a case by case basis, with more structure and support given to those who struggle to communicate their ideas.


----------



## DUD

Not sure if im being ignorant but I don't really see an issue with Tony Khan's response. He couldn't address all of Swole's criticisms with the limited characters on that shit bird app but he addressed the biggest criticism by pointing out AEW has a diverse roster and Swole just wasn't good enough.


----------



## ajmaf625

The Legit Lioness said:


> *This dumb fuck really doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376*


IMAGINE Vince tweeting some shit like this, we would never hear the end of it! He needs to learn when to keep his mouth shut it comes off unprofessional


----------



## Thomazbr

What a crazy tweet lmao


----------



## NathanMayberry

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376
> Let's go TK


Needle dick strikes again lmao


What a little bitch 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Prosper

ajmaf625 said:


> IMAGINE Vince tweeting some shit like this, we would never hear the end of it! He needs to learn when to keep his mouth shut it comes off unprofessional


Vince hasn't spoken to the media or had an wrestling-based interview for almost 30 years. What he would have said about talent over the years if he had given the media any attention probably would have been 10 times worse.


----------



## DUD

ajmaf625 said:


> IMAGINE Vince tweeting some shit like this, we would never hear the end of it! He needs to learn when to keep his mouth shut it comes off unprofessional


People rip on Cody but he conducts himself exactly how an EVP should do.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Chip Chipperson said:


> Exactly right, I understand Swole's point about wanting black representation on the show but AEW kind of does have that. Maybe not featured as much as she'd like but nobody really is featured that much due to monster roster.
> 
> I don't think Tony is a racist though or doing this deliberately. If he came across the next black superstar he'd push him to the moon.


Not like his dad doesn't own a nfl team and has openly backed the black players on all the equality issues. 

Tk ain't racist in the slightest


----------



## 3venflow

Imagine the world was like this in 1997/8. There would have been calls for Ahmed Johnson and Farooq to be champion instead of Bret and SCSA.


----------



## ProjectGargano

NathanMayberry said:


> Needle dick strikes again lmao
> 
> 
> What a little bitch
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Where is the lie? Only truths were said


----------



## Prosper

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Not like his dad doesn't own a nfl team and has openly backed the black players on all the equality issues.
> 
> Tk ain't racist in the slightest


Not to mention that Tony himself is a minority/POC lol


----------



## 3venflow

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Not like his dad doesn't own a nfl team and has openly backed the black players on all the equality issues.


Also:









Khan backs Black News Channel


Jaguars owner Shad Khan is investing in the Black News Channel, which is being launched by former Oklahoma congressman and Sooners quarterback J.C. Watts.



eu.jacksonville.com


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Prosper said:


> Vince hasn't spoken to the media or had an wrestling-based interview for almost 30 years. What he would have said about talent over the years if he had given the media any attention probably would have been 10 times worse.


Imagine some of the sewage that would have come out his mouth in attitude era or ruthless aggression era lmfao .....

Look at all the shit that got approved by creative and vince ,but that's why Vince doesn't interact he gives them nothing to manipulate I'll give him that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Not like his dad doesn't own a nfl team and has openly backed the black players on all the equality issues.
> 
> Tk ain't racist in the slightest


i think sometimes people forget TK has a NFL team and has openly feuded with players who wanted to be traded in very much the same way as he’s done here

tonight we’re getting NFL TK it seems


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> Imagine the world was like this in 1997/8. There would have been calls for Ahmed Johnson and Farooq to be champion instead of Bret and SCSA.


Different world. 

HHH wouldn't have made it beyond 1998 with the black face he done and the monkey chants he done at Mark Henry.


----------



## AthleticGirth

Forum Dud said:


> Not sure if im being ignorant but I don't really see an issue with Tony Khan's response. He couldn't address all of Swole's criticisms with the limited characters on that shit bird app but he addressed the biggest criticism by pointing out AEW has a diverse roster and Swole just wasn't good enough.


TK allowed Swole to have a dignified 'mutual consent' exit from the company. She's now spat in his face only to be met with a curt 'she wasn't good enough'. 

Seems fair to me.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

3venflow said:


> Also:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Khan backs Black News Channel
> 
> 
> Jaguars owner Shad Khan is investing in the Black News Channel, which is being launched by former Oklahoma congressman and Sooners quarterback J.C. Watts.
> 
> 
> 
> eu.jacksonville.com


Yeah for sure another great point


----------



## ajmaf625

Prosper said:


> Vince hasn't spoken to the media or had an wrestling-based interview for almost 30 years. What he would have said about talent over the years if he had given the media any attention probably would have been 10 times worse.


dude has twitter just like Tony but he's actually got a brain and doesn't let emotion run his twitter fingers. I guess it's just something that comes with experience


----------



## Dickhead1990

ajmaf625 said:


> IMAGINE Vince tweeting some shit like this, we would never hear the end of it! He needs to learn when to keep his mouth shut it comes off unprofessional


Vince or one of his stooges would shoot on someone's podcast instead. No one's really shocked by it either when it happens. In this case, defame a company, expect a frank response.

It was going to be addressed at some point, it might as well be now to protect company face.


----------



## Geeee

I think Swole is not a good wrestler but is she a worse wrestler than The Bunny, who is on TV all the time? I can't say that for sure.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Geeee said:


> I think Swole is not a good wrestler but is she a worse wrestler than The Bunny, who is on TV all the time? I can't say that for sure.


It's more boring, for sure, and not attractive as Bunny.


----------



## Geeee

ProjectGargano said:


> It's more boring, for sure, and not attractive as Bunny.


Just trying to stir the pot LOL


----------



## Prosper

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Imagine some of the sewage that would have come out his mouth in attitude era or ruthless aggression era lmfao .....
> 
> Look at all the shit that got approved by creative and vince ,but that's why Vince doesn't interact he gives them nothing to manipulate I'll give him that.


Lol one recent example is his probable opinion on Jeff Hardy, he had an entire feud with Sheamus based on his real-life alcohol problems, like they really laid it into Jeff in those promos, he gives his opinions indirectly on the talent behind the scenes all the time, he would have completely buried Eric Bischoff and WCW, he would have tore Lesnar and The Rock apart for leaving in 2002 as well had he accepted questions about it lol


----------



## DUD

Geeee said:


> I think Swole is not a good wrestler but is she a worse wrestler than The Bunny, who is on TV all the time? I can't say that for sure.


I saw enough with Allie / Cherry Bomb prior to AEW to suggest she's more than worthy of the opportunities she's had.


----------



## Prosper

ajmaf625 said:


> dude has twitter just like Tony but he's actually got a brain and doesn't let emotion run his twitter fingers. I guess it's just something that comes with experience


He doesn't use it lol he has a whole media team that posts for him


----------



## RapShepard

1. For those talking about Swole's skill level let's not forget Britt was allowed to grow on Dynamite.

2. For those talking about Swole's skill level let's not forget Hook is currently getting to learn on the job on Rampage

3. For those about to say "but look at how they use Jade" yeah Jade is booked well good point there. But she's not often on TV and hasn't really had a proper story since the stuff (though the women in general are booked bad)

4. For those about to say but Dante, Hobbs, and Scorpio. Dante and Hobbs never win shit of note. Scorpio is ass he deserves to not win shit I will freely admit he's be treated way too good, lucky for him he knows Daniels and Frankie lol.


----------



## RapShepard

5. For those about to say "well it's not their fault if the talents aren't creative". Yes, yes it is their fault, it shouldn't be up on the talent to have to come up with idea to be used. A quality booker should be the one primarily coming up with the ideas. That's not to say talents shouldn't be able to collaborate and have say. But the notion it should be on the talents to give ideas is insane. You can't laugh at the ridiculousness of WWE have dozens of Hollywood writers, then suggest AEW needs dozens of wrestlers all pitching their own shit.

6. No AEW doesn't use other races and ethnicities well either. Shida and Riho were champ, yet Britt a green Britt was the star of the division getting the true focus. Proud and Powerful have done fuck all in their 2 years in the company, easy argument they've been just as underused as WWE would've underused them. Hell even the Lucha Bros are just now getting steam in the last 4 months.

7. Yes we get wrestling fans are majority white, but just like white people like to see successful white people in arenas they don't dominate like say basketball and rap, non white wrestling fans like to see people like them be successful in wrestling. In an era where WWE is getting better at using it's black and female talent, the AEW is young so it has to be super white male song sit for some.


----------



## DUD

Imagine thinking Vince knows how to use Twitter.


----------



## Erik.

Chadwixx said:


> Can i borrow your crysal ball for this weeks lotto?


No


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Geeee said:


> I think Swole is not a good wrestler but is she a worse wrestler than The Bunny, who is on TV all the time? I can't say that for sure.


we’ll have to watch the street fight tonight to judge


----------



## ajmaf625

Prosper said:


> He doesn't use it lol he has a whole media team that posts for him


exactly, Tony should do the same. Tweeting ain't doing him any good he has money to hire a social media team


----------



## 3venflow

Geeee said:


> I think Swole is not a good wrestler but is she a worse wrestler than The Bunny, who is on TV all the time? I can't say that for sure.


Yes, she's worse than The Bunny and I think Bunny is bad. Swole's wrestling is next level bad. Her matches against Shida and Britt were the worst of both opponents' careers. She also had horrible matches against Nyla. She was taken off Dynamite after a string of wretched matches and showed little to no improvement on Dark.

With that said, if TK is committed to the best in-ring product possibly, then several other women's wrestlers should be phased out as they're replaced by better talent.

Actually, putting the belt on Jade, while pleasing the diversity police, may come across as slightly hypocritical as she's not good in the ring yet. Unlike Swole though, it's clear she has upside.


----------



## Dickhead1990

3venflow said:


> Yes, she's worse than The Bunny and I think Bunny is bad. Swole's wrestling is next level bad. Her matches against Shida and Britt were the worst of both opponents' careers. She also had horrible matches against Nyla. She was taken off Dynamite after a string of wretched matches and showed little to no improvement on Dark.
> 
> With that said, if TK is committed to the best in-ring product possibly, then several other women's wrestlers should be phased out as they're replaced by better talent.
> 
> Actually, putting the belt on Jade, while pleasing the diversity police, may come across as slightly hypocritical as she's not good in the ring yet. Unlike Swole though, it's clear she has upside.


I think that Swole also holds the award for most stupid appearances on BTE as well. She was truly shocking. 

As is the Bunny.


----------



## Prosper

ajmaf625 said:


> exactly, Tony should do the same. Tweeting ain't doing him any good he has money to hire a social media team


He's a 36 yr old guy that chooses to be upfront and center to the media/public, nothing wrong with that as a promoter it's respectable, his tweets haven't been vile there's no need to keep him in check


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Way to go Tony. You just pissed off the Black people in your own locker room with your stupid ass fucking statements. Way to raise morale, dipshit. Thanks for proving her right.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477081194084794369*


----------



## Erik.

Lio Rush about to retire again.


----------



## ajmaf625

Prosper said:


> He's a 36 yr old guy that chooses to be upfront and center to the media/public, nothing wrong with that as a promoter it's respectable, his tweets haven't been vile there's no need to keep him in check


you don't respond to an ex employee who is sharing their experience and in turn say that you didn't renew their contract because she wasn't a good wrestler. That's a bush league response when you're supposed to be such a good owner. Absolutely childish


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Not gonna lie that TK response was cutthroat and I LOVE that he did it.


They had a mutual ending of their relationship Tony even congratulated and thanked her for her time ,she seemed cordial too.


Then she decides to attack them on diversity of all issues.....? AEW isn't lacking diversity ,the tidbit about creative was insightful to the atmosphere in the back but she using her daughter like the reason she left and shit is just whack.

Tk let it go cordially but you ask for a slap in the mouth you got one swole.....YOUR NOT A GOOD WRESTLER......Heard it from the boss himself.....oh btw the fans don't like you either.


My thought here is TK perhaps is going to get on quality control when these contracts start coming up like we hoped. Like when's the last time you seen marko stunt even associated with Jungle Express? With the robust roster they have all the indy talent who got saved during the pandemic will likely be back on the indys.


----------



## BestInTheWorld22

BlueEyedDevil said:


> My mother always told me to consider the source. Since the source was Big Swole I...


Can't stand Big Swole


----------



## $Dolladrew$

ajmaf625 said:


> you don't respond to an ex employee who is sharing their experience and in turn say that you didn't renew their contract because she wasn't a good wrestler. That's a bush league response when you're supposed to be such a good owner. Absolutely childish


Oh wow look at all the outrage....oh wait there isn't any....wonder why?


----------



## RapShepard

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Diversity
> 
> I myself am multicultural and find no issue with diversity theres latin,black, white,Asian, Indian people on the show. *Where are all these elite black wrestlers that should be the focal point?* I'm all for inclusion and diversity when its warranted but there shouldn't be people of color just to say "hey look we black people and Latinos too!!"
> 
> The talent level is all that matters imo


The issue is why are non-elite white talent like Britt, Hook, Anna Jay, The Bunny, and Penelope Ford are allowed to grow and find a groove on TV by those in power, but green non-white talent is hidden away mostly on YouTube. 

Like I know you didn't mean anything by it, but think about it. If the argument for Swole not being on TV is she isn't an elite female wrestler I wouldn't protest that. But on the same token should Anna Jay, Bunny, Penelope, and 2019 early 2020 Britt have been on TV either . Should not elite Hook be on getting highlighted Rampage matches?


----------



## ajmaf625

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Oh wow look at all the outrage....oh wait there isn't any....wonder why?


might wanna check twitter, dude's getting torched and it's well deserved. Everyone thought Tony was wrestling's savior and his true colors were revealed thanks to Swole. Diversity aside, his twitter response was piss poor


----------



## Wolf Mark

I don't think I only speak for myself in saying, Big Swole was not appealing and really never that good. That's why she was not on TV. As far as diversity, again she speaks for herself mainly cause she wants to have more air time. As for her daughter, I have my reserves in this case as well. I just don't think that's how kids thinks. 

The main issue in AEW is that they have too many wrestlers and at some point many others will be fed up to not have more TV time.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Tony Khan doesn't seem to realise that he's an owner of a company and that as an owner you don't go running around on Twitter getting into beef with people or roasting them. You just keep your mouth shut.


----------



## Prosper

ajmaf625 said:


> you don't respond to an ex employee who is sharing their experience and in turn say that you didn't renew their contract because she wasn't a good wrestler. That's a bush league response when you're supposed to be such a good owner. Absolutely childish


It was a somewhat aggressive response I agree. At the same time though she insulted him publicly first by subliminally saying that he's a racist for not hiring diverse talent when he clearly does. Is he not supposed to respond and let people run with the narrative that he's a racist? Not responding can be just as bad as responding in certain cases. Anyone who may be outraged by this can clearly look at the roster and see the diversity. Plus he's 100% correct about her being a terrible wrestler. Even talents like Anna Jay have improved, but Big Swole has shown no improvement whatsoever.


----------



## IronMan8

I don't invest in people just because they look a bit like me. That's a terrible reason to invest in people.

Tony probably couldn't wait to let her not renew her contract. He overpushed her if anything, so it's disappointing to see her with this attitude.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Tony is a boss and he should act like it. You can't get bent out of shape all the time when you get critized. That would make you sound like a baby. Swole says something that was from her heart. Then Tony says that about his former talent on social media.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> The issue is why are non-elite white talent like Britt, Hook, Anna Jay, The Bunny, and Penelope Ford are allowed to grow and find a groove on TV by those in power, but green non-white talent is hidden away mostly on YouTube.
> 
> Like I know you didn't mean anything by it, but think about it. If the argument for Swole not being on TV is she isn't an elite female wrestler I wouldn't protest that. But on the same token should Anna Jay, Bunny, Penelope, and 2019 early 2020 Britt have been on TV either . Should not elite Hook be on getting highlighted Rampage matches?


i don‘t wanna be THAT guy - but anna, bunny, penelope etc has something going for them that Swole doesn’t

Jade has it too

i’ll let you figure it out - but as a clue, its something that can make the male fan forget you are shit at matches and still watch you plodding around the ring for 10min without turning the channel


in other news - when TK sobers up, he’s gonna send himself to sensitivity training


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> Also:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Khan backs Black News Channel
> 
> 
> Jaguars owner Shad Khan is investing in the Black News Channel, which is being launched by former Oklahoma congressman and Sooners quarterback J.C. Watts.
> 
> 
> 
> eu.jacksonville.com


Ehem









Black News Channel announces layoffs right before Christmas


The Black News Channel (BNC) has reportedly reduced its 300-strong workforce amid reports of declining ratings.



thegrio.com






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Geeee

3venflow said:


> Yes, she's worse than The Bunny and I think Bunny is bad. Swole's wrestling is next level bad. Her matches against Shida and Britt were the worst of both opponents' careers. She also had horrible matches against Nyla. She was taken off Dynamite after a string of wretched matches and showed little to no improvement on Dark.
> 
> With that said, if TK is committed to the best in-ring product possibly, then several other women's wrestlers should be phased out as they're replaced by better talent.
> 
> Actually, putting the belt on Jade, while pleasing the diversity police, may come across as slightly hypocritical as she's not good in the ring yet. Unlike Swole though, it's clear she has upside.


I think Jade is in the position she's in because she has a spectacular physical presence and it's not about diversity at all. Also, her matches with Red Velvet and Thunder Rosa were much more entertaining than any of Swole's matches


----------



## Thomazbr

RapShepard said:


> 5. For those about to say "well it's not their fault if the talents aren't creative". Yes, yes it is their fault, it shouldn't be up on the talent to have to come up with idea to be used. A quality booker should be the one primarily coming up with the ideas. That's not to say talents shouldn't be able to collaborate and have say. But the notion it should be on the talents to give ideas is insane. You can't laugh at the ridiculousness of WWE have dozens of Hollywood writers, then suggest AEW needs dozens of wrestlers all pitching their own shit.
> 
> 6. No AEW doesn't use other races and ethnicities well either. Shida and Riho were champ, yet Britt a green Britt was the star of the division getting the true focus. Proud and Powerful have done fuck all in their 2 years in the company, easy argument they've been just as underused as WWE would've underused them. Hell even the Lucha Bros are just now getting steam in the last 4 months.
> 
> 7. Yes we get wrestling fans are majority white, but just like white people like to see successful white people in arenas they don't dominate like say basketball and rap, non white wrestling fans like to see people like them be successful in wrestling. In an era where WWE is getting better at using it's black and female talent, the AEW is young so it has to be super white male song sit for some.


Lucha Bros have been getting multiple title shots for the past 2 years tho. Fenix and Penta have like a world championship shot every once in a while. They are part of a fairly well liked stable with PAC. They are tag champs and before that had multiple title opportunities. I wouldn't call them "just getting steam".


----------



## dcruz

Big yikes @ TK, really showed his ass with that tweet


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit Lioness said:


> *This dumb fuck really doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376*


This is when you got to take a step back and acknowledge how at least in the US Class is truly the biggest divider amongst the people. Imagine somebody complains about your wrestling TV show doesn't have enough important characters of color on the show and one of your trump cards is Marq Quen won a match this year [emoji23][emoji23]. Not hey we developed this talented guy none of you accusatory dickheads new about into a real name. Just simply "hey this dark dude won a match on TV". 

It's like a WWE rep pretending they know what to do with their Asian talent. Oh the Asians in WWE will win some matches, but being in a story and seeing character development ain't happening.


----------



## NathanMayberry

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think sometimes people forget TK has a NFL team and has openly feuded with players who wanted to be traded in very much the same way as he’s done here
> 
> tonight we’re getting NFL TK it seems


Nah this is fragile and unhinged Fulham tiny..


He hasn’t been this fired up on Twitter since the fans tweeted him the dog wanking flag 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AthleticGirth

ajmaf625 said:


> might wanna check twitter, dude's getting torched and it's well deserved. Everyone thought Tony was wrestling's savior and his true colors were revealed thanks to Swole. Diversity aside, his twitter response was piss poor


I don't doubt it. Lots of white lefties telling TK he needs to be more aware of racial sensitivity - too lacking in self awareness to see the irony of their behaviour. 

Swole was the drizzling shits, how many of the clowns piling in on Tony would waste their time and money on an event Swole was headlining ? Would you ?


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

The Legit Lioness said:


> *This dumb fuck really doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376*


Neither do you tbh.


----------



## Wolf Mark

The Legit Lioness said:


> *This dumb fuck really doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376*


Damn! At least he's honest. 😂


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

cai1981 said:


> FINALLY someone with enough guts to speak the truth about this cult clown show run by a spoiled rich kid! Swole wasn't the best, but its about time someone told the truth about AEW not being this magical place where everyone is happy!!!
> 
> 
> Now, watch Tony "Con" cry on low rent podcasts like "Rasslin' " and "My Mom's Basement" about how she was a problem and so on and so forth...


All this? Coming from the biggest bitch on here? Just stop because you hate everything he does. Want some truth? Swole fucking sucked. In every phase of wrestling.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i don‘t wanna be THAT guy - but anna, bunny, penelope etc has something going for them that Swole doesn’t
> 
> Jade has it too
> 
> i’ll let you figure it out - but as a clue, its something that can make the male fan forget you are shit at matches and still watch you plodding around the ring for 10min without turning the channel
> 
> 
> in other news - when TK sobers up, he’s gonna send himself to sensitivity training


Oh I agree Swole ain't no looker, no arguments from me there lol. I get it's a lot of unfair shit that goes into who is going to get pushed. I'm just saying, let's not pretend ring skills is the only thing that determines TV time.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Prosper said:


> He's a 36 yr old guy that chooses to be upfront and center to the media/public, nothing wrong with that as a promoter it's respectable, his tweets haven't been vile there's no need to keep him in check


He’s a fragile spaz. That’s easily triggered. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Thomazbr

I guess Cedric isn't getting hired if and when he gets released by WWE then.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

RapShepard said:


> The issue is why are non-elite white talent like Britt, Hook, Anna Jay, The Bunny, and Penelope Ford are allowed to grow and find a groove on TV by those in power, but green non-white talent is hidden away mostly on YouTube.
> 
> Like I know you didn't mean anything by it, but think about it. If the argument for Swole not being on TV is she isn't an elite female wrestler I wouldn't protest that. But on the same token should Anna Jay, Bunny, Penelope, and 2019 early 2020 Britt have been on TV either [emoji2379]. Should not elite Hook be on getting highlighted Rampage matches?


I think it comes down to sex appeal those girls are much more attractive and around the same skill level and absolutely more popular. BRITT isn't in the same sentence as swole britts a main eventer period and has been fir some time. Swole is both annoying and unattractive lol.

Also I'd say swole had been on dynamite and rampage,had a few title shots,was in tournaments that were featured and was utilized as well as any other of the womans division (hint womans division was a mess still is) TK having the rotating roster really means your not featured for too long unless your in the main event scene.

Theres definently diversity if your good you get pushed it really is that simple.


----------



## IronMan8

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376
> Let's go TK


Haha, that's a great response.

Just facts and logic with a Rampage plug at the end.

Best to stamp out silly emotional accusations by former employees with facts early and not let them fester.

Great to see a company stand up to this kind of manipulative public attack instead of woke-washing themselves with trembling hands.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

Upstart474 said:


> When a person is released, you can sometimes find the truth about a promotion. Swole is a decent wrestler but she is not wrong. AEW and Tony Khan is half white, cater exclusively to its caucasian fans. Lets look at the top, all the EVP are white, Rhodes, Young Bucks, and Kenny Omega. All the male champions are white as well. So far, there has not been a black champion in AEW history but that can change when Jade Cargill becomes champion. You also look at the audience, AEW has more caucasian fans then any other promotion because all the champion where it matters are caucasian. I honestly believe AEW has a diversity problem on its hands.


Nah. They don't have diversity problem. You just have a problem with them not pushing people you want pushed. Fuck forced diversity tbh.


----------



## Thomazbr

RapShepard said:


> Oh I agree Swole ain't no looker, no arguments from me there lol. I get it's a lot of unfair shit that goes into who is going to get pushed. I'm just saying, let's not pretend ring skills is the only thing that determines TV time.


I mean what would you push Swole for?
It's not ring skills, it's not look and it's probably also not mic skills?

Is it solely her look?


----------



## AthleticGirth

RapShepard said:


> The issue is why are non-elite white talent like *Britt, Hook, Anna Jay, The Bunny, and Penelope Ford* are allowed to grow and find a groove on TV by those in power, but green non-white talent is hidden away mostly on YouTube.


They're photogenic attractive people - just like Jade, Velvet, Private Party, Ogogo etc.

Swole isn't.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Geeee said:


> I think Swole is not a good wrestler but is she a worse wrestler than The Bunny, who is on TV all the time? I can't say that for sure.


I know a good reason why Bunny is on TV. 😉


----------



## RapShepard

Thomazbr said:


> Lucha Bros have been getting multiple title shots for the past 2 years tho. Fenix and Penta have like a world championship shot every once in a while. They are part of a fairly well liked stable with PAC. They are tag champs and before that had multiple title opportunities. I wouldn't call them "just getting steam".


They're just getting steam, first off you can barely count Death Triangle as a thing because Pac's travel issues are a hinderance. But besides that prior to the pre Dynamite debut Bucks feud, there's not much of note to point at them doing story wise prior to this summer. Hell even the Pentagon Cody feud was a fucking week.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

AthleticGirth said:


> I don't doubt it. Lots of white lefties telling TK he needs to be more aware of racial sensitivity - too lacking in self awareness to see the irony of their behaviour.
> 
> Swole was the drizzling shits, how many of the clowns piling in on Tony would waste their time and money on an event Swole was headlining ? Would you ?


Ajmaf is a liar. He doesn't know what he's talking about. He brings up one name and ignores everyone else. Fuck that guy.


----------



## DUD

I love some of the responses in the comments to TK's tweet.

"IMAGINE VINCE SAYING SOMETHING LIKE THIS!!"
"Bruh he said the N word on TV why ain't you angry bout that".


----------



## $Dolladrew$

ajmaf625 said:


> might wanna check twitter, dude's getting torched and it's well deserved. Everyone thought Tony was wrestling's savior and his true colors were revealed thanks to Swole. Diversity aside, his twitter response was piss poor


I looked bud it's no big outrage just the same crybabys trying to make a big deal of nothing. AEW has many flaws booking being one if them but diversity isn't one of them LMFAO. 

They both split amicably and then Swole wants to open up and share insight as to why she left......well Tk merely shared some insight as to why she wasn't brought back .....she sucks and has no fans lol.


----------



## Thomazbr

RapShepard said:


> They're just getting steam, first off you can barely count Death Triangle as a thing because Pac's travel issues are a hinderance. But besides that prior to the pre Dynamite debut Bucks feud, there's not much of note to point at them doing story wise prior to this summer. Hell even the Pentagon Cody feud was a fucking week.


I mean, maybe I just remember this more fondly than others, but Eddie's Family was a good time as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Erik.

Starks has now deactivated his Twitter account.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477081155551875073

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Prosper

NathanMayberry said:


> He’s a fragile spaz. That’s easily triggered.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Or maybe it's not a good idea to let people talk shit about you publicly? Shit that people will run with and turn into a bigger diversity issue that's not even there? Big Swole is speaking her truth and Tony is speaking his. Swole thinks that she should be pushed hard because she's black and Tony thinks she's not a good enough wrestler or mic worker (in the case of Britt) for said push.


----------



## DUSTY 74

Wolf Mark said:


> I don't think I only speak for myself in saying, Big Swole was not appealing and really never that good. That's why she was not on TV. As far as diversity, again she speaks for herself mainly cause she wants to have more air time. As for her daughter, I have my reserves in this case as well. I just don't think that's how kids thinks.
> 
> The main issue in AEW is that they have too many wrestlers and at some point many others will be fed up to not have more TV time.



In regards to the kid particularly these days you’d be surprised not to mention do we even know the age …. Many parents refer to there children out of habit as kids regardless of age


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

ajmaf625 said:


> IMAGINE Vince tweeting some shit like this, we would never hear the end of it! He needs to learn when to keep his mouth shut it comes off unprofessional


Nope. He doesn't. I respect him much more as a man now. People need to stop kissing ass because of someone else's skin color. Swole sucked and that's that.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> It was a somewhat aggressive response I agree. At the same time though she insulted him publicly first by subliminally saying that he's a racist for not hiring diverse talent when he clearly does. Is he not supposed to respond and let people run with the narrative that he's a racist? Not responding can be just as bad as responding in certain cases. Anyone who may be outraged by this can clearly look at the roster and see the diversity. Plus he's 100% correct about her being a terrible wrestler. Even talents like Anna Jay have improved, but Big Swole has shown no improvement whatsoever.


Anna Jay's "improvements" are just as miniscule and worthless as Big Swole's. The only difference is Anna Jay is allowed to be shitty on TV in a never ending foursome with Tay, Bunny, and Penelope.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> This is when you got to take a step back and acknowledge how at least in the US Class is truly the biggest divider amongst the people. Imagine somebody complains about your wrestling TV show doesn't have enough important characters of color on the show and one of your trump cards is Marq Quen won a match this year [emoji23][emoji23]. Not hey we developed this talented guy none of you accusatory dickheads new about into a real name. Just simply "hey this dark dude won a match on TV".
> 
> It's like a WWE rep pretending they know what to do with their Asian talent. Oh the Asians in WWE will win some matches, but being in a story and seeing character development ain't happening.


*The best part about this is he exposed himself to hundreds of thousands of people and confirmed all of my criticisms about how executives view diversity in AEW. I appreciate that he took the mask off and showed people on the fence what a pompous prick he truly is. 

Sidenote: I want all the smoke with that DBZ post from Wednesday. Can't let you get away with pushing that Goku Cena narrative, lol.*


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

Geert Wilders said:


> bro…..
> 
> TK saying how it is. This attitude is going to create him a tonne of enemies in the industry.


If this makes him any enemies then the wrestling business is full of sensitive ass BITCHES.


----------



## ajmaf625

Nickademus_Eternal said:


> Ajmaf is a liar. He doesn't know what he's talking about. He brings up one name and ignores everyone else. Fuck that guy.


get the name right dude and acknowledge me properly. Don't be mad your lord and savior Tony Khan is getting torched for the fraud he is. It's been a good 2 years just a shame he had to go and tweet, rich owner problems lol


----------



## Erik.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477086524193705987


----------



## rich110991

I’ve always liked Tony’s honesty. He could have said nothing, but he’s just pointing out facts. He’s allowed to defend himself. Just because WWE likes to brush everything under the carpet, it doesn’t mean Tony has to.

I believe representation is important, but AEW is VERY diverse already. How is that even deniable? Just because there hasn’t been a black singles champion? Who should that champion have been? Which black wrestlers should they have signed? Jade might be the TBS Champion soon and she is fucking undefeated. Is there a quota we need to meet?


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

Forum Dud said:


> Not sure if im being ignorant but I don't really see an issue with Tony Khan's response. He couldn't address all of Swole's criticisms with the limited characters on that shit bird app but he addressed the biggest criticism by pointing out AEW has a diverse roster and Swole just wasn't good enough.


There's nothing wrong. People on here are just trying to be big swoles savior.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Anna Jay's "improvements" are just as miniscule and worthless as Big Swole's. The only difference is Anna Jay is allowed to be shitty on TV in a never ending foursome with Tay, Bunny, and Penelope.


Nope Anna Jay has improved a lot in-ring compared to when she started even though she still needs work, plus she's hot, Big Swole I watch on DARK and she just gets worse and worse every week


----------



## ajmaf625

$Dolladrew$ said:


> I looked bud it's no big outrage just the same crybabys trying to make a big deal of nothing. AEW has many flaws booking being one if them but diversity isn't one of them LMFAO.
> 
> They both split amicably and then Swole wants to open up and share insight as to why she left......well Tk merely shared some insight as to why she wasn't brought back .....she sucks and has no fans lol.


oofff you might wanna re check, I see some white folks trying to defend Tony but its not looking good. Sometimes you just need to keep your mouth shut and let things blow over. He tried to be smart and well he's getting his


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

ajmaf625 said:


> IMAGINE Vince tweeting some shit like this, we would never hear the end of it! He needs to learn when to keep his mouth shut it comes off unprofessional


Your fake outrage is showing.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Oh I agree Swole ain't no looker, no arguments from me there lol. I get it's a lot of unfair shit that goes into who is going to get pushed. I'm just saying, let's not pretend ring skills is the only thing that determines TV time.


for sure not - not with the women

i think we can all agree if they can work its better - but if they can’t, they gotta be lookers to get tv time it seems

i don’t condone it - but i understand it

*then again, there is Ruby which throws that theory out the window in all ways


----------



## DUD

Nickademus_Eternal said:


> There's nothing wrong. People on here are just trying to be big swoles savior.


You should see the outrage on that shit bird app. Fuck.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Tony’s response was dumb and exactly the type of response you don’t make. I get the whole idea of him being more approachable on Twitter and all, but the guy replies to way too much of this and you end up with him putting his foot in his mouth with stuff like this. 

With Swole, honestly I thought she was overall one of the worst wrestlers they had and I don’t really mind her getting let go. As for diversity sake, I mean I’d like if they did more with Hobbs, Lethal, Lio, and others but at the same token I don’t really think you should just push people based on diversity either. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cai1981

Nickademus_Eternal said:


> All this? Coming from the biggest bitch on here? Just stop because you hate everything he does. Want some truth? Swole fucking sucked. In every phase of wrestling.


You like Tony CLEARLY didn't read ALL she said! You, like Tony and the rest of the toxic hardcore AEW CLEARLY get offended at the slightest little thing and can't take criticism. THOSE are the real bitches and you clearly fit the mold!

Call me what you want, but I call it like it is!!!! Tony Khan is in WAY over his head as a wrestling owner and booker. Daddy's money will only take him so far unless he hires a competent person to run his business!


----------



## RapShepard

$Dolladrew$ said:


> I think it comes down to sex appeal those girls are much more attractive and around the same skill level and absolutely more popular. BRITT isn't in the same sentence as swole britts a main eventer period and has been fir some time. Swole is both annoying and unattractive lol.
> 
> Also I'd say swole had been on dynamite and rampage,had a few title shots,was in tournaments that were featured and was utilized as well as any other of the womans division (hint womans division was a mess still is) TK having the rotating roster really means your not featured for too long unless your in the main event scene.
> 
> Theres definently diversity if your good you get pushed it really is that simple.


I'd you're going to argue sex appeal I won't fight you, I wouldn't pick Swole as the representative to use if I'm going sex appeal. 

The issue is folk don't initially argue that. Initially they argue "oh Swole isn't used because she sucked". Well White Britt sucked when the show first started, but she was allowed to grow in real time as a character and performer. Low and behold she's now a bright spot in wrestling in general. I'm not saying Swole would've done the same if given that opportunity. I'm just saying if the shitty white girl can grow on TV, why can't the shitty black girl.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477086524193705987


i actually think once TK gets off the sauce and wipes the coke out his eyes tomorrow he will apologise

but thats tomorrow


----------



## RapShepard

Thomazbr said:


> I mean what would you push Swole for?
> It's not ring skills, it's not look and it's probably also not mic skills?
> 
> Is it solely her look?





AthleticGirth said:


> They're photogenic attractive people - just like Jade, Velvet, Private Party, Ogogo etc.
> 
> Swole isn't.


Again if we're putting it on looks I agree, Swole is no looker. The problem is folk always initially divert to "oh well the black talent in AEW, just isn't talented enough. That's why they're not in bigger spots". But the problem is we can point at plenty of untalented white talent that are given chances to learn on the job in prominent spots.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

The Legit Lioness said:


> *The best part about this is he exposed himself to hundreds of thousands of people and confirmed all of my criticisms about how executives view diversity in AEW. I appreciate that he took the mask off and showed people on the fence what a pompous prick he truly is.
> 
> Sidenote: I want all the smoke with that DBZ post from Wednesday. Can't let you get away with pushing that Goku Cena narrative, lol.*


Your fake outrage is showing. You know that right? Anyway, time to destroy your comment. I appreciate you being an ignorant dumbass for taking the time to spout bullshit. You do know he's a minority him self right or are you too blinded by false outrage? If you think what he said was bad then that says alot about you as a person tbh. Says that you're sensitive but choose to ignore the ignorant shit that big swole said.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> I'd you're going to argue sex appeal I won't fight you, I wouldn't pick Swole as the representative to use if I'm going sex appeal.
> 
> The issue is folk don't initially argue that. Initially they argue "oh Swole isn't used because she sucked". Well White Britt sucked when the show first started, but she was allowed to grow in real time as a character and performer. Low and behold she's now a bright spot in wrestling in general. I'm not saying Swole would've done the same if given that opportunity. I'm just saying if the shitty white girl can grow on TV, why can't the shitty black girl.


I mean they're letting Jade grow in real time, Big Swole just sucked, and Britt had the mic skills to make up for a lot


----------



## somerandomfan

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376
> Let's go TK


On one hand this comes off as tone deaf and not a good look for an executive to tweet.

On the other hand everything he said was true and Big Swole might have been the worst wrestler they have had under contract.


----------



## Gn1212

Her interview is all over the place, lol. She starts it off by trying to play it like it's all cool but then proceeds to bash how the company is running, and this and that. Surprised she didn't complain about catering and pyro too.
Anyway, sounds like AEW wasn't gonna renew her anyway so she wanted to save face and asked for her release instead.
Also, love how she tried to praise WWE in spite of AEW yet she used to bash WWE on Twitter when Cedric wasn't used.

Pick a story Swole.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477086524193705987


Needle dick absolutely has to. 


Y’all can take turn lining up to defend him like simps, but he’s wrong here. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Danielallen1410

Well done tony Khan standing up to someone playing the race card.


----------



## yeahright2

Knowing where the EVP´s stand politically, and Kenny running the womens division.. Not surprised Black girls doesn´t get a the chance as much as they might deserve.. There need to be time for Kennys Japanese schoolgirl fetish
That said, Swole got plenty of time, considering her talent (or lack of).
And you shouldn´t be pushed because you have a certain skin tone, sexual orientation or genitals, but because you´re the best at what you do.

Oh, and btw. Tony shouldn´t drink and tweet..


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477088882852302861


----------



## NathanMayberry

Prosper said:


> Nope Anna Jay has improved a lot in-ring compared to when she started even though she still needs work, plus she's hot, Big Swole I watch on DARK and she just gets worse and worse every week


The bitch is as talentless as sin and isn’t on tv for her wrestling ability.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## yeahright2

Lio is gone..


----------



## NathanMayberry

ajmaf625 said:


> oofff you might wanna re check, I see some white folks trying to defend Tony but its not looking good. Sometimes you just need to keep your mouth shut and let things blow over. He tried to be smart and well he's getting his


Tiny Kahn’s defense squad on Twitter is pretty much all fat white guys with Japanese Joshi display pics


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ProjectGargano

yeahright2 said:


> Lio is gone..


Why u say that? Can't they be man and solve this?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Nickademus_Eternal said:


> Your fake outrage is showing. You know that right? Anyway, time to destroy your comment. I appreciate you being an ignorant dumbass for taking the time to spout bullshit. You do know he's a minority him self right or are you too blinded by false outrage? If you think what he said was bad then that says alot about you as a person tbh. Says that you're sensitive but choose to ignore the ignorant shit that big swole said.


What a shit argument. 

You should be ashamed for even posting this. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Thomazbr

RapShepard said:


> Again if we're putting it on looks I agree, Swole is no looker. The problem is folk always initially divert to "oh well the black talent in AEW, just isn't talented enough. That's why they're not in bigger spots". But the problem is we can point at plenty of untalented white talent that are given chances to learn on the job in prominent spots.


I mean I think Tay is better than Swole in most accounts tbh if you ask me.


----------



## yeahright2

ProjectGargano said:


> Why u say that? Can't they be man and solve this?


Do you know Lio? He has retired almost as often as Terry Funk  And going on Twitter demanding an apology from your boss? Not a smart move. In WWE he would be fired, but I´m not sure TK has the balls to do it.


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit Lioness said:


> *The best part about this is he exposed himself to hundreds of thousands of people and confirmed all of my criticisms about how executives view diversity in AEW. I appreciate that he took the mask off and showed people on the fence what a pompous prick he truly is.
> 
> Sidenote: I want all the smoke with that DBZ post from Wednesday. Can't let you get away with pushing that Goku Cena narrative, lol.*


Remind me of the DBZ argument lol.

But nah I don't fault Tony, the end of the day it's business. But that's why you got to be careful about you and your other executives setting yourself up to be this new age super progressive wrestling company that's going to take wrestling into the new age. If you're just going to be as carny as folk before you.




Prosper said:


> Nope Anna Jay has improved a lot in-ring compared to when she started even though she still needs work, *plus she's hot*, Big Swole I watch on DARK and she just gets worse and worse every week


This is the real difference you found. I know you fuck with women's wrestling, you ain't sitting around anticipating Anna Jay match for artistic merit bruh lol



LifeInCattleClass said:


> for sure not - not with the women
> 
> i think we can all agree if they can work its better - but if they can’t, they gotta be lookers to get tv time it seems
> 
> i don’t condone it - but i understand it
> 
> *then again, there is Ruby which throws that theory out the window in all ways


I mean I totally get it, it is showbiz at the end of the day. But I rather folk in her case just grab their nuts and say "yo Swole is ugly and untalented they couldn't find a spot" instead of just pretending it's a solely skill thing

Agree Ruby is something else lol. She has a good look, but isn't as interesting as the look. Isn't really must see in ring, on the mic, or for horndog reasons lol.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

She doesn't get it.


----------



## Upstart474

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Tony Khan doesn't seem to realise that he's an owner of a company and that as an owner you don't go running around on Twitter getting into beef with people or roasting them. You just keep your mouth shut.


I am saying this the whole time, Tony Khan is 39 year old man child. He does not know better but throw temper tantrum on twitter. He did the exact same thing with a former Jaguar player in the NFL.


----------



## 3venflow

yeahright2 said:


> Not surprised Black girls doesn´t get a the chance as much as they might deserve.. There need to be time for Kennys Japanese schoolgirl fetish


They're Goldberging a black woman who is as green as it gets. Riho has had two matches on Dynamite this year, Shida was off Dynamite for five months after losing her title. It's been the white girls who have had most of the attention this year.

TK should sign Trish Adora, she's a black woman who is actually good in the ring. She was on Elevation recently.


----------



## Gn1212

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477086524193705987


Apologize for what? Swole can bash his company but Tony can't bash her in return?


----------



## Araragi




----------



## ShadowCounter

RapShepard said:


> Oh I agree Swole ain't no looker, no arguments from me there lol. I get it's a lot of unfair shit that goes into who is going to get pushed. I'm just saying, let's not pretend ring skills is the only thing that determines TV time.


Oh, I picked up what you're putting down. Mic skills.


----------



## Upstart474

Tony Khan is a keyboard warrior, a 76 year old promotor would brutal pound Khan.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

RapShepard said:


> I'd you're going to argue sex appeal I won't fight you, I wouldn't pick Swole as the representative to use if I'm going sex appeal.
> 
> The issue is folk don't initially argue that. Initially they argue "oh Swole isn't used because she sucked". Well White Britt sucked when the show first started, but she was allowed to grow in real time as a character and performer. Low and behold she's now a bright spot in wrestling in general. I'm not saying Swole would've done the same if given that opportunity. I'm just saying if the shitty white girl can grow on TV, why can't the shitty black girl.


That's because she was so terrible that's what sticks in your mind is how godawful her character and wrestling was. You can't even think of anyone worse on the roster. Over half the womans division doesn't belong on tv currently, that number was like 98% when Swole first came in.

I've openly said I'm not a huge womans wrestling fan outside of the top 5/7 most matches I'm not watching because of the talent lmao. It's obvious "The look" has alot to do with your push in the womans division fair or not.

Mens division I see no issues with its just a mix of learning booking on the fly and rotating the roster TK isn't white he doesn't have a pro white agenda and this whole thing is kinda a non issue but that's me.


----------



## ShadowCounter

NathanMayberry said:


> He’s a fragile spaz. That’s easily triggered.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So what does that make most of his detractors on this forum? Legit Clown posts a new thread every time the guy is asked a question.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> I mean they're letting Jade grow in real time, Big Swole just sucked, and Britt had the mic skills to make up for a lot


And I'd agree to degree. But even she didn't get as much time on actual TV as green Britt was. Green Britt was getting more TV time than Riho, Nyla, and Crowd Member Shida. 

I guess the best way to explain what I think most folk in some agreeance with Swole would like "well they're not already Elite" should stop being used as an excuse to not push more diverse talent. Hangman wasn't ready to be champion in folks eyes coming into year one. But they kept him in a prominent role low and behold now he's ready. Private Party weren't ready to be a top tag team year one, but imagine if they had been more consistently used on TV. Maybe they fucking flop and we're like send them to hang with Luther, of maybe they slowly got better and are the type of team were saying should be being prepped for a tag title run.


----------



## yeahright2

3venflow said:


> They're Goldberging a black woman who is as green as it gets. Riho has had two matches on Dynamite this year, Shida was off Dynamite for five months after losing her title. It's been the white girls who have had most of the attention this year.
> 
> TK should sign Trish Adora, she's a black woman who is actually good in the ring. She was on Elevation recently.


There´s the Corona issue. I have no doubt we would have seen a lot more of Shida, Riho, Sakura and whomever these Japanese girls are if there were no travel restrictions.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

yeahright2 said:


> Do you know Lio? He has retired almost as often as Terry Funk  And going on Twitter demanding an apology from your boss? Not a smart move. In WWE he would be fired, but I´m not sure TK has the balls to do it.


If TK fired Lio it would confirm his Arayan Brotherhood membership......Lio Is untouchable.....


----------



## 45banshee

This shit is getting messy


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477086524193705987
Lio wants Tony to apologize. Well he didn't have to sign her or you Lio


----------



## RapShepard

Thomazbr said:


> I mean I think Tay is better than Swole in most accounts tbh if you ask me.


Tay I think has improved a lot, not enough to lead a match but definitely somebody worth giving consistent time too. 

Her ass is overrated though

(Ducks for cover)


----------



## Wolf Mark

Dammit Lio, you just cannot stay in a promotion for long, my guy. lol


----------



## RapShepard

ShadowCounter said:


> Oh, I picked up what you're putting down. Mic skills.


[emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## ProjectGargano

Britt retweeted TK post and Tay and Sammy supported TK...


----------



## Peerless

So does this mean we will have to watch more lower midcarders rather than stars? AEW already has that issue as is, I can only imagine it getting worse now


----------



## Thomazbr

RapShepard said:


> Tay I think has improved a lot, not enough to lead a match but definitely somebody worth giving consistent time too.
> 
> Her ass is overrated though
> 
> (Ducks for cover)


I mean, she """"carried"""" britt baker in their PPV match IMO.
Britt was godawful there.


----------



## 3venflow

Apologizing is the worst thing he could do especially as he said nothing wrong at all. Do not give in to the baying social media mob ever. He's done it before though, like promoting the Swole vs. Britt shitshow to a PPV main card after the simps on Twitter demanded it.


----------



## Upstart474

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477086524193705987I am glad someone is standing up to the billionaire basement dweller.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Big Swole has ruined the TBS Championship match, if Jade wins some guys will say that she only won because this, if Ruby wins TK "don´t like black people"?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Remind me of the DBZ argument lol.











Tony Khan: "I Don't Have 27 Hollywood Writers...


For example, nobody else being allowed to defeat major villains except Goku can get annoying, but I also don't want to turn into Dragon Ball where he's just not being used for long stretches of time Ok, I need to go off topic for a moment, because this is the biggest myth in anime history...




www.wrestlingforum.com







> But nah I don't fault Tony, the end of the day it's business. But that's why you got to be careful about you and your other executives setting yourself up to be this new age super progressive wrestling company that's going to take wrestling into the new age. If you're just going to be as carny as folk before you.


*I fault him because he's a walking PR nightmare that says unfiltered stupid shit twice a week. At least Vince has the common sense to speak like a business man instead of a fucking fan account. *


----------



## Wizak10

3venflow said:


> Imagine the world was like this in 1997/8. There would have been calls for Ahmed Johnson and Farooq to be champion instead of Bret and SCSA.


Why you acting like Farooq was bad? He was good in the mic and could wrestle and with the nation faction could’ve worked easily, they had Big Show and especially Vince as champion a year later, Farooq would’ve been much better


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

Prosper said:


> Lol one recent example is his probable opinion on Jeff Hardy, he had an entire feud with Sheamus based on his real-life alcohol problems, like they really laid it into Jeff in those promos, he gives his opinions indirectly on the talent behind the scenes all the time, he would have completely buried Eric Bischoff and WCW, he would have tore Lesnar and The Rock apart for leaving in 2002 as well had he accepted questions about it lol


Youre sucking off vince too much. Lol


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477084944455274498

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

The Legit Lioness said:


> Tony Khan: "I Don't Have 27 Hollywood Writers...
> 
> 
> For example, nobody else being allowed to defeat major villains except Goku can get annoying, but I also don't want to turn into Dragon Ball where he's just not being used for long stretches of time Ok, I need to go off topic for a moment, because this is the biggest myth in anime history...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I fault him because he's a walking PR nightmare that says unfiltered stupid shit twice a week. At least Vince has the common sense to speak like a business man instead of a fucking fan account. *


You're so damn sensitive.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Captain has spoken


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477095371574853632


----------



## $Dolladrew$

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477095371574853632


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Way to go Tony. You just pissed off the Black people in your own locker room with your stupid ass fucking statements. Way to raise morale, dipshit. Thanks for proving her right.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477081194084794369*


Nothing but fake outrage from you.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The Captain has spoken
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477095371574853632


Jinx


----------



## $Dolladrew$

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The Captain has spoken
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477095371574853632


You now owe me a coca cola or I guess I owe you since you posted first.....hmm what are shipping costs from California to New Zealand 🤔


----------



## ShadowCounter

RapShepard said:


> And I'd agree to degree. But even she didn't get as much time on actual TV as green Britt was. Green Britt was getting more TV time than Riho, Nyla, and Crowd Member Shida.
> 
> I guess the best way to explain what I think most folk in some agreeance with Swole would like "well they're not already Elite" should stop being used as an excuse to not push more diverse talent. Hangman wasn't ready to be champion in folks eyes coming into year one. But they kept him in a prominent role low and behold now he's ready. Private Party weren't ready to be a top tag team year one, but imagine if they had been more consistently used on TV. Maybe they fucking flop and we're like send them to hang with Luther, of maybe they slowly got better and are the type of team were saying should be being prepped for a tag title run.


I get what you're saying but Private Party is a bad example. Isiah has been injured several times this past year. They couldn't have been on tv wrestling even if Khan wanted them to. I guess they could have done interviews but who wants to hear Matt Hardy that much?


----------



## 45banshee

So who's telling the truth here.

Swole says she didn't want to resign for the reasons she stated.

Tony saying I let her contract expire cause she sucks as a wrestlers. 

I tend to believe Swole didn't want to resign and Tony said what he said cause he's in his feelings right now


----------



## Wolf Mark

Damn Lio really wants to die on that hill.


----------



## Lorromire

Erik. said:


> Lio Rush about to retire again.


Dreams do come true


----------



## Geert Wilders

45banshee said:


> So who's telling the truth here.
> 
> Swole says she didn't want to resign for the reasons she stated.
> 
> Tony saying I let her contract expire cause she sucks as a wrestlers.
> 
> I tend to believe Swole didn't want to resign and Tony said what he said cause he's in his feelings right now


I’d believe Tk in this situation tbh


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> Tony is a boss and he should act like it. You can't get bent out of shape all the time when you get critized. That would make you sound like a baby. Swole says something that was from her heart. Then Tony says that about his former talent on social media.


No. Big Swole acted like a cunt and accused him of racism.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

3venflow said:


> Apologizing is the worst thing he could do especially as he said nothing wrong at all. Do not give in to the baying social media mob ever. He's done it before though, like promoting the Swole vs. Britt shitshow to a PPV main card after the simps on Twitter demanded it.


Pretty much don't acknowledge it from here on out. Don't apologize but definetly don't elaborate.....what you dont say can't hurt you.

He has backing from some wrestlers and the people of color hes put into roles backstage but if he says something really dumb he could cancel himself before AEW ever makes it to TBS only because the cancel culture has ever burning torches to try and start a mob against anyone these days. 

Just shut up and run your company lol.


----------



## NathanMayberry

ProjectGargano said:


> Britt retweeted TK post and Tay and Sammy supported TK...


Two of the least ethical people in AEW… tiny must be proud..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ProjectGargano

NathanMayberry said:


> Two of the least ethical people in AEW… tiny must be proud..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So, is Swole ethical and not Tay, Britt or Shawn Dean? why?


----------



## $Dolladrew$

NathanMayberry said:


> Two of the least ethical people in AEW… tiny must be proud..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Shawn dean a black wrestler and has a role backstage is supporting tony too



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477095371574853632


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477092888874045440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477092897052844034

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477092898411794434


----------



## ShadowCounter

45banshee said:


> So who's telling the truth here.
> 
> Swole says she didn't want to resign for the reasons she stated.
> 
> Tony saying I let her contract expire cause she sucks as a wrestlers.
> 
> I tend to believe Swole didn't want to resign and Tony said what he said cause he's in his feelings right now


Most likely, Swole's not being completely truthful. She would have signed in a heartbeat. Where else is she gonna go? She's not the greatest in the ring. She's lousy on the mic. She has Chron's which frequently sidelines her and sets her progress back. She's not gonna even smell the chance of being on a major tv promotion anywhere else. Most likely either Khan low balled her on money or out right said we're passing on you.


----------



## RapShepard

$Dolladrew$ said:


> That's because she was so terrible that's what sticks in your mind is how godawful her character and wrestling was. You can't even think of anyone worse on the roster. Over half the womans division doesn't belong on tv currently, that number was like 98% when Swole first came in.
> 
> I've openly said I'm not a huge womans wrestling fan outside of the top 5/7 most matches I'm not watching because of the talent lmao. It's obvious "The look" has alot to do with your push in the womans division fair or not.
> 
> Mens division I see no issues with its just a mix of learning booking on the fly and rotating the roster TK isn't white he doesn't have a pro white agenda and this whole thing is kinda a non issue but that's me.


I don't think Tony is racist, but having meaningful diversity on his programs isn't a non-issue. Non-white males like to see themselves in media and that's something he's going to have to provide to a meaningful degree at some point. 

I don't know how he reaches that point in a tasteful way that doesn't rock feathers, but it's something he should aim for if just for the money of more cultures coming in


----------



## 3venflow

$DollaDrew$ said:


> Just shut up and run your company lol.


I agree on this. He said nothing wrong IMO but people are such babies nowadays and want, no _need_ to be outraged by something so he's best sticking to hype man promoter on Twitter. If he wants to fire back at people badmouthing him, he should take a page out of the WWE playbook and slyly leak it to the press. Notice how many WWE released wrestlers are suddenly 'hard to work with' or 'out of shape' when they go.


----------



## Wolf Mark

This is the perfect time to hire Vince Russo and spin this into a big storyline. Woke vs Non-Woke. 

Book it!


----------



## One Shed

"Swole sucks."

-Everyone


----------



## $Dolladrew$

The Legit Lioness said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477092888874045440
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477092897052844034
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477092898411794434


And he still wont get a job at AEW lol


----------



## ajmaf625

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Shawn dean a black wrestler and has a role backstage is supporting tony too
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477095371574853632


and Lio Rush a black employee is disgusted and wants him to apologize, the fuck does that mean that someones supporting Tony? of course this guy would now is the time for everyone to pick sides


----------



## Chan Hung

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376
> Let's go TK


FUCK YEAH. First Time KHAN made me mark out.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

For all the new Swole fans out there

please support this one


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477078664726548481
joking aside - there is a lot of talk about fans being underserved and representation and black wrestling draws

i hope (and i genuinely do - not being a smartass for a change) - that the vocal people who are after all this, takes out their 20 bucks and supports TERMINUS - which is a black-owned show, funded by black wrestlers

Be the change you want to see and so on and so forth


----------



## NathanMayberry

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Shawn dean a black wrestler and has a role backstage is supporting tony too
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477095371574853632


Lmaooo tiny found his Candace Owens!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Geert Wilders

The Legit Lioness said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477092888874045440
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477092897052844034
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477092898411794434


“White passing”. Brodie dug his own grave with this.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

The Legit Lioness said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477092888874045440
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477092897052844034
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477092898411794434


Whoever that guy is, he doesn't get it either.


----------



## rich110991

Jade has tweeted her support for Tony


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Damn, this is embarrassing for Tony. Now he has to admit he's lying now or lied before. That's why you just need to shut the fuck up.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477087189624360961*


----------



## NathanMayberry

The Legit Lioness said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477092888874045440
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477092897052844034
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477092898411794434


This will get ignored too..

The found a black guy that has had 3 matches to go Candace Owens mode and give their white fans on Twitter and the IWC comfort. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lenny Leonard

Lol at so many people sucking little tiny khans dick


----------



## Prized Fighter

What Khan said was garbage and there is no defending it. This is an act that can actually fuck over the whole company. Just STFU and run the company.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477099777301037058


----------



## NathanMayberry

ShadowCounter said:


> Most likely, Swole's not being completely truthful. She would have signed in a heartbeat. Where else is she gonna go? She's not the greatest in the ring. She's lousy on the mic. She has Chron's which frequently sidelines her and sets her progress back. She's not gonna even smell the chance of being on a major tv promotion anywhere else. Most likely either Khan low balled her on money or out right said we're passing on you.


What is 3 minute matches on YouTube going to do for her career?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wolf Mark

Lio is fired. One week later Lio and Swole appears in the crowd. Then invade the ring, take the mic and...


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

Forum Dud said:


> I love some of the responses in the comments to TK's tweet.
> 
> "IMAGINE VINCE SAYING SOMETHING LIKE THIS!!"
> "Bruh he said the N word on TV why ain't you angry bout that".


I was just on there. Nobody said that. Lol.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Needle Dicks post is getting ratiod HARD!


I’m loving it! I think it’s his most commented on tweet ever and it’s only been a couple of hours 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Klitschko

Big Swole sucks.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prized Fighter said:


> What Khan said was garbage and there is no defending it. This is an act that can actually fuck over the whole company. Just STFU and run the company.


*I'm glad you've seen the light.*


----------



## 3venflow

If Lio wants to go, I'd give his contract to Shane Strickland asap. Unless he has a cry about this too.

Tony Khan convinced Lio to come out of retirement didn't he?









Lio Rush: Tony Khan Made Me Feel Wanted In AEW, I Don't Want Another Boss Like Vince McMahon Or Triple H


Lio Rush has revealed the role Tony Khan played in making him want to join All Elite Wrestling, while also revealing that he doesn't want another boss like WWE's Triple H or Vince McMahon. Rush, who was released from WWE in April 2020, made a surprise appearance as the Joker in the Casino...




cultaholic.com


----------



## Mister Abigail

If she wants to get work she needs to have a non idiotic name.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

RapShepard said:


> I don't think Tony is racist, but having meaningful diversity on his programs isn't a non-issue. Non-white males like to see themselves in media and that's something he's going to have to provide to a meaningful degree at some point.
> 
> I don't know how he reaches that point in a tasteful way that doesn't rock feathers, but it's something he should aim for if just for the money of more cultures coming in


Im just of the opinion that just most things outside the main event is pretty meaningless be you white black blue or purple. The storylines were pretty non existent and or lacking severely throughout the pandemic. Not until this year have we seen more storylines for the midcard and lower card not only on dynamite but youtube shows and Rampage as well.

I'm more of the opinion Tony was/is just still getting his shit together because he is after all only booking his what third year of actual wrestling? I give him alot of credit and like the dude ,I do.....but I'm real in saying he's very much still learning on the job and is overwhelmed.

I don't think theres a lack of diversity I think theres still a lack of a vision because the influx of all the free agents brought in a ton of ppl to a crowded roster, only further complicating the positioning of acts. Pretty much sloppy booking and creative to an extent has hindered the majority of talent. 

Like I've said all along I don't care if your black or ginger if you got the skills you need to be pushed and that's still my thought.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

ajmaf625 said:


> get the name right dude and acknowledge me properly. Don't be mad your lord and savior Tony Khan is getting torched for the fraud he is. It's been a good 2 years just a shame he had to go and tweet, rich owner problems lol


I don't respect you enough to acknowledge you properly. He ain't my mfin lord and savior! HES YALLS CONSIDERING YALL CANT STOP TALKING ABOUT THE DUDE EVERY WEEK!


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

ajmaf625 said:


> oofff you might wanna re check, I see some white folks trying to defend Tony but its not looking good. Sometimes you just need to keep your mouth shut and let things blow over. He tried to be smart and well he's getting his


Nah. It's the same damn people crying like fucking always.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477101591295676416

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

Forum Dud said:


> You should see the outrage on that shit bird app. Fuck.


Yeah fuck Twitter lmao.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

3venflow said:


> I agree on this. He said nothing wrong IMO but people are such babies nowadays and want, no _need_ to be outraged by something so he's best sticking to hype man promoter on Twitter. If he wants to fire back at people badmouthing him, he should take a page out of the WWE playbook and slyly leak it to the press. Notice how many WWE released wrestlers are suddenly 'hard to work with' or 'out of shape' when they go.


I'd have MJF run his account lol


----------



## ProjectGargano

NathanMayberry said:


> Needle Dicks post is getting ratiod HARD!
> 
> 
> I’m loving it! I think it’s his most commented on tweet ever and it’s only been a couple of hours
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Jade has a bad character too...the only one that is ethical is Big Swole lmao


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Respect to Lio Rush for actually standing up to Tony Khan because all the others in the locker room absolutely don't have the balls to do it, What Khan said was out of line was it true? Probably, but when you're in a high position like he is you don't go tweeting stuff like that, ever. This is the same guy who regularly gets in arguments on Twitter with his own players in Jacksonville, as well as being hated for the most part by Fulham and Jacksonville fans, AEW fans are the only ones who actually like Tony.

Tony ain't got the maturity level of an owner, take away his Twitter account for the love of God, focus on your business and not feeling the need to spew useless garbage on Twitter.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

cai1981 said:


> You like Tony CLEARLY didn't read ALL she said! You, like Tony and the rest of the toxic hardcore AEW CLEARLY get offended at the slightest little thing and can't take criticism. THOSE are the real bitches and you clearly fit the mold!
> 
> Call me what you want, but I call it like it is!!!! Tony Khan is in WAY over his head as a wrestling owner and booker. Daddy's money will only take him so far unless he hires a competent person to run his business!


HA! Not even cupcake! I'll bite and I'll humble your pussy ass. I read everything the ugly bitch said. She got her feelings hurt. Nah little girl. You bitches don't have criticism. That went out the window months ago. You girls complain about everything. Far from a bitch like the rest of you little WWE crybabies.


----------



## One Shed

Wolf Mark said:


> Lio is fired. One week later Lio and Swole appears in the crowd. Then invade the ring, take the mic and...


"Why is that crappy wrestler bringing her small child into the ring with her?"


----------



## $Dolladrew$

ajmaf625 said:


> and Lio Rush a black employee is disgusted and wants him to apologize, the fuck does that mean that someones supporting Tony? of course this guy would now is the time for everyone to pick sides


Showing there are in fact people of color in positions behind the scenes (as if it weren't already known) and that some support TK.

Also if you read the comments hes saying to be patient that opportunity is available to everyone give it some time.....


----------



## PavelGaborik

Swole absolutely fucking blows, her critique wasn't legitimate either. 

I don't mind Tony being outspoken personally, what he said is absolute child's play compared to what Dana White says on Twitter on a daily basis.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Two Sheds said:


> "Why is that crappy wrestler bringing her small child into the ring with her?"


Why is that woman flexing and dragging her child around like that?


----------



## The Boy Wonder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477076870587949056


----------



## TheFiend666

Lenny Leonard said:


> Lol at so many people sucking little tiny khans dick


LMFAO


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The Captain has spoken
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477095371574853632


The issue with this is, he has office but what opportunities of real consequences is he helping to get out. This would've been a perfect chance to elaborate on who he's actually gotten opportunities for and what came of it. 

"trust the process" isn't typically a phrase folk wanting change buy into. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477095646435983363


----------



## $Dolladrew$

PavelGaborik said:


> Swole absolutely fucking blows, her critique wasn't legitimate either.
> 
> I don't mind Tony being outspoken personally, what he said is absolute child's play compared to what Dana White says on Twitter on a daily basis.


Lol yeah Dana is a fucking dickhead


----------



## Thomazbr

American racial politics are silly.
Wait for someone to call Shawn Dean a Uncle Tom or whatever.


----------



## Swindle

This is how Tony is spending his New Years Eve.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Respect to Lio Rush for actually standing up to Tony Khan because all the others in the locker room absolutely don't have the balls to do it, What Khan said was out of line was it true? Probably, but when you're in a high position like he is you don't go tweeting stuff like that, ever. This is the same guy who regularly gets in arguments on Twitter with his own players in Jacksonville, as well as being hated for the most part my Fulham and Jacksonville fans, AEW fans are the only ones who actually like Tony.
> 
> Tony ain't got the maturity level of an owner, take away his Twitter account for the love of God, focus on your business and not feeling the need to spew useless garbage on Twitter.


I bet people beat the sh


NathanMayberry said:


> Needle dick absolutely has to.
> 
> 
> Y’all can take turn lining up to defend him like simps, but he’s wrong here.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not a simp he don't have to do shit to please you little bitches.


----------



## Thomazbr

I bet Tony tweeted this shit and turned off the cellphone for the day.


----------



## 3venflow

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Lol yeah Dana is a fucking dickhead


Dana gives zero fucks. MMA fans aren't crybabies for the most part though and laugh along.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/760940016797380609

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220889606440116224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/49942005672984577


----------



## AthleticGirth

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> being hated for the most part by Fulham fans



What makes you draw this conclusion ? Especially considering how well Fulham are doing.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> The issue with this is, he has office but what opportunities of real consequences is he helping to get out. This would've been a perfect chance to elaborate on who he's actually gotten opportunities for and what came of it.
> 
> "trust the process" isn't typically a phrase folk wanting change buy into.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477095646435983363


we’ll suffer from ‘selective-itis’ now no matter what

people who support TK will be disregarded / and vice versa

can only go downhill from here, where everybody wants their own personal outrage addressed

one thing is for sure, TK needs to call his wrestlers in on Tuesday and apologise to them - he put them all in an awkward situation

the public can frankly get fucked


----------



## RainmakerV2

Are the natives rocking the boat? Couldn't be. Could it.


----------



## Upstart474

Nickademus_Eternal said:


> I bet people beat the sh
> 
> I'm not a simp he don't have to do shit to please you little bitches.


Defending him when Tony is in the wrong, makes marks.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

NathanMayberry said:


> What a shit argument.
> 
> You should be ashamed for even posting this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not though.


----------



## 45banshee

So who is Brandi Rhoads gonna back up in this situation


----------



## ProjectGargano

Swole is butthurt


----------



## Aedubya

Thanks for coming Lio


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

Upstart474 said:


> Defending him when Tony is in the wrong, makes marks.


Lmao! The fuck out of here jabronie. Someone played the race card and he put a stop to it.


----------



## TheFiend666

ProjectGargano said:


> Britt retweeted TK post and Tay and Sammy supported TK...


Tay and Sammy are some real noble people haha


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐




----------



## ProjectGargano

Lmao what? when i said that? it wasn´t today for sure.


AthleticGirth said:


> What makes you draw this conclusion ? Especially considering how well Fulham are doing.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

Gn1212 said:


> Apologize for what? Swole can bash his company but Tony can't bash her in return?


This is 2021. You're supposed to sit there and take it if you're being bashed.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ProjectGargano said:


> View attachment 114141
> 
> 
> Swole is butthurt


this is the crux

from the start she wasn’t digging on Jade - who is legit swole


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

Upstart474 said:


> Tony Khan is a keyboard warrior, a 76 year old promotor would brutal pound Khan.


Most of the people on here are as well.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Thomazbr said:


> American racial politics are silly.


It's part of our foundation unfortunately lol

We were founded by people fleeing religious persecution and limiting of civil liberty.....

Only to persecute and take away people civil liberty.....


A country founded by immigrants instead of bonding went tribal....so now how many hundreds of years later still have taught resentment and built in separatisms that cause divide to this day. Things are getting better but as you see in media are still bad In alot of places.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477101112088006656

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RapShepard

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Im just of the opinion that just most things outside the main event is pretty meaningless be you white black blue or purple. The storylines were pretty non existent and or lacking severely throughout the pandemic. Not until this year have we seen more storylines for the midcard and lower card not only on dynamite but youtube shows and Rampage as well.
> 
> I'm more of the opinion Tony was/is just still getting his shit together because he is after all only booking his what third year of actual wrestling? I give him alot of credit and like the dude ,I do.....but I'm real in saying he's very much still learning on the job and is overwhelmed.
> 
> I don't think theres a lack of diversity I think theres still a lack of a vision because the influx of all the free agents brought in a ton of ppl to a crowded roster, only further complicating the positioning of acts. Pretty much sloppy booking and creative to an extent has hindered the majority of talent.
> 
> Like I've said all along I don't care if your black or ginger if you got the skills you need to be pushed and that's still my thought.


Sure he's learning on the job, that's not really a solid point on the diversity thing though. Especially when they came out the gate talking about being the progressive inclusive company to lead wrestling out of the stone age. Story writing ability, it's a fair share to let him get time to learn. How to diversify the used roster in prominent roles not so much lol.

Though again I don't think Tony is some secret hater of folk. I just think it's an issue of due to its history, non-white male talent just have an uphill battle in sticking out in wrestling, they have to sort of be above and beyond. Sort of like how back in the day smaller white wrestlers had to go above and beyond to get noticed


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

Upstart474 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477086524193705987I am glad someone is standing up to the billionaire basement dweller.


Tony Khan didn't do or say anything wrong. You bitches are just sensitive.


----------



## Cult03

There’s plenty of great black wrestlers out there and AEW has signed very few of them. When discussing this type of thing I would prefer people give examples of wrestlers that would suit their accusation and they just never do it. Anthony Bowens, Max Caster, Hobbs, Red velvet, Jay Lethal and Jade Cargill are all worthy of pushes at different levels. Then we have Dante and Darius Martin, Isiah Kassidy, Scorpio Sky, Lee Johnson, Lee Moriarty, Lio Rush, Marq Quen, Shawn Dean and Sonny Kiss who are essentially all the same character, just shit at what they do, or generic skinny floppy guy #12.

Alex Kane, Calvin Tankman, Ej Nduka, Jorel Nelson, Kevin Knight, David Ali, Ice Williams, Labron Kozone, Mojo McQueen, Montana Black, Matthew Mims, Eli Isom, Kaun, Moses, O’Shay Edwards, Bojack, Brohemoth, Bryan Keith, Darius Carter, Dontae Smiley, Duke Davis, Edge Stone, EJ Sparks, Eric Watts, Ganan Jones Jr, Hoodfoot Mo Atlas, Isaiah Broner, Jase Osei, Jason Cade, Joe Black, Ju Dizz, Lucky Ali, M’Badu, Omar Amir, Prince Agballah, Rhett Giddins, Terrell and Terrence Hughes, Thomas Sharp, Xavier Walker and the entirety of Hit Row are all better options/less generic than who they have already.

AEW has let themselves down by signing the most known wrestlers from the indies instead of wrestlers they could build on who actually look the part and act the part.


----------



## cai1981

Nickademus_Eternal said:


> HA! Not even cupcake! I'll bite and I'll humble your pussy ass. I read everything the ugly bitch said. She got her feelings hurt. Nah little girl. You bitches don't have criticism. That went out the window months ago. You girls complain about everything. Far from a bitch like the rest of you little WWE crybabies.


Sorry...I am married and don't swing that way (not that I have a problem with people who do)!


----------



## AthleticGirth

LifeInCattleClass said:


> one thing is for sure, TK needs to call his wrestlers in on Tuesday and apologise to them - he put them all in an awkward situation


Isn't that what Swole did ? She's indirectly accusing the talent of participating and being complicit in a racially discriminatory working environment.

She's thrown a metaphorical hand grenade into the locker room.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Nickademus_Eternal said:


> I bet people beat the sh
> 
> I'm not a simp he don't have to do shit to please you little bitches.












How deep you got Tony's dick in your mouth bro?


----------



## ajmaf625

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Showing there are in fact people of color in positions behind the scenes (as if it weren't already known) and that some support TK.
> 
> Also if you read the comments hes saying to be patient that opportunity is available to everyone give it some time.....


so is this you acknowledging than that AEW does have a problem with diversity? If you're going by the basis of this black employees tweet saying to give some time.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

3venflow said:


> Dana gives zero fucks. MMA fans aren't crybabies for the most part though and laugh along.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/760940016797380609
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220889606440116224
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/49942005672984577


He tweets like I'd post if every section were rants.


----------



## Tell it like it is

People here saying he should not have said that? So we're living in a society where anyone can make shit up and imply others are racist, but calling them on their bullshit is wrong?


----------



## ajmaf625

Nickademus_Eternal said:


> I don't respect you enough to acknowledge you properly. He ain't my mfin lord and savior! HES YALLS CONSIDERING YALL CANT STOP TALKING ABOUT THE DUDE EVERY WEEK!


DON'T NEED TO RESPECT ME TO GET MY NAME RIGHT LITTLE KID. go back to sucking your moms tit and get off this forum if you can't take the heat. You acting like this man's lawyer meanwhile he wouldn't piss on you if you were begging for it.


----------



## 3venflow

Does this happen in other American sports? Is there outrage over a lack of white players on basketball teams and a lack of black players on hockey teams? Identity politics are crazy, enough is never enough. AEW has had a bisexual world champion, a trans women's champion, two Asian women's champions, a black tag champion, two latino tag champions, a latino TNT champion, a slavic TNT champion, and a black (well, that's what Starks identifies as) FTW champion in their <3 year history. But hey, get that world title on Scorpio Sky and tick those boxes!


----------



## $Dolladrew$

ajmaf625 said:


> so is this you acknowledging than that AEW does have a problem with diversity? If you're going by the basis of this black employees tweet saying to give some time.


No I've already explained my position I dont think they have a lack of diversity as much as TK is overwhelmed and lacking in the creative department. 

You feel me dawg?


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Dana gives zero fucks. MMA fans aren't crybabies for the most part though and laugh along.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/760940016797380609
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220889606440116224
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/49942005672984577


You clearly don't follow MMA seriously. Hardcore MMA fans hate Dana White as much as hardcore wrestling fans hate Vince. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> we’ll suffer from ‘selective-itis’ now no matter what
> 
> people who support TK will be disregarded / and vice versa
> 
> can only go downhill from here, where everybody wants their own personal outrage addressed
> 
> one thing is for sure, TK needs to call his wrestlers in on Tuesday and apologise to them - he put them all in an awkward situation
> 
> the public can frankly get fucked


I mean I don't think this should define him, it's not a great look but not like he said blacks shouldn't marry his daughter lol. But best way to clear this up is give it some time and talk to the women and wrestlers of color behind closer doors and see how they feel about the opportunities they have in the company and business in general. Nobody likes to feel like they have a glass ceiling above them after all.


----------



## DUSTY 74

Guess another weekend goes by where tony is actually focused on constructing any storylines and or interesting booking decisions ….


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

The Legit Lioness said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477092888874045440
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477092897052844034
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477092898411794434


Nobody cares crybaby.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Tell it like it is said:


> People here saying he should not have said that? So we're living in a society where anyone can make shit up and imply others are racist, but calling them on their bullshit is wrong?


This is essentially how modern Western Civilization works, yes.


----------



## ProWresBlog

Big Swole is one of the most unlikeable wrestlers out there. She's always race baiting and thinks everyone and everything is out to get her because of her race. Her look isn't great, she's not a good wrestler and she's not a great talker. And even if Tony was going to push someone because of their race, Jade and Red Velvet are better prospects.

Tony shouldn't have said anything publicly and Swole is going to milk his comment for all its worth. It's no wonder some of the worst AEW fans act the way they do when Tony is doing it.

Lio Rush needs to stay out of this. He's not going back to WWE and AEW is his last hope of being in a mainstream promotion.


----------



## NathanMayberry

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477101112088006656
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dafuq would I want to watch 4 talentless women wrestle in slow motion for?


----------



## Thomazbr

ProWresBlog said:


> Big Swole is one of the most unlikeable wrestlers out there. She's always race baiting and thinks everyone and everything is out to get her because of her race. Her look isn't great, she's not a good wrestler and she's not a great talker. And even if Tony was going to push someone because of their race, Jade and Red Velvet are better prospects.
> 
> Tony shouldn't have said anything publicly and Swole is going to milk his comment for all its worth. It's no wonder some of the worst AEW fans act the way they do when Tony is doing it.
> 
> Lio Rush needs to stay out of this. He's not going back to WWE and if AEW stops using him, he's going to MLW and NWA only to never be seen by anyone again.


Swole should really thank Tony because the truth is that the dude just made a hundred bookings for her on the independents with that tweet.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

AthleticGirth said:


> Isn't that what Swole did ? She's indirectly accusing the talent of participating and being complicit in a racially discriminatory working environment.
> 
> She's thrown a metaphorical hand grenade into the locker room.


yeah - its what she did

but her words had no power until he responded

the talent currently working for him needs to know they won‘t be dragged through the mud if they leave

now, she brought it upon herself - but he should’ve handled it better / remember, she’s still friends with a lot of people in that lockerroom


----------



## Swindle

DUSTY 74 said:


> Guess another weekend goes by where tony is actually focused on constructing any storylines and or interesting booking decisions ….


All he needs is another cut WWE/NXT wrestler and it will cover up all of this...


----------



## becauseimafingcaveman

So a division dominated by a bunch of Japanese women, a black woman (Cargill), a 40 year old trans black/Native American woman (Rose), a Hispanic woman (Thunder Rosa), a black executive (Brandi), and two white women (Britt Baker and Ruby Soho) is somehow not diverse enough? They just gave a 40 year old Hispanic lesbian half the audience hasn't heard of a big debut like she was Mickie James.


----------



## Boldgerg

Victim culture running wild again. Shocker.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Tonight, I have a new found appreciation for this..


----------



## One Shed

Swole could be any color on the spectrum and she would be in exactly the same spot. Sports are a competence hierarchy and she is very low in competence in her chosen profession.

Swole attacked Jade because she felt she was owed a position based on just being employed for a longer period of time. This has nothing to do with diversity, but she knows she will get SJW woke points if she plays identity politics. She just has a chip on her shoulder and she would rather cry racism than have to look herself in the mirror and be forced to realize she is just not good at all at being a wrestler.


----------



## 3venflow

becauseimafingcaveman said:


> So a division dominated by a bunch of Japanese women, a black woman (Cargill), a 40 year old trans black/Native American woman (Rose), a Hispanic woman (Thunder Rosa), a black executive (Brandi), and two white women (Britt Baker and Ruby Soho) is somehow not diverse enough? They just gave a 40 year old Hispanic lesbian half the audience hasn't heard of a big debut like she was Mickie James.


They've also given Red Velvet plenty of TV time even though she nearly breaks her neck every time she tries the standing moonsault.

They really ought to sign Trish Adora and Ember Moon, they're the only two black women available I can think of who can wrestle. Maybe Willow Nightingale too.


----------



## ProjectGargano

NathanMayberry said:


> Tonight, I have a new found appreciation for this..
> 
> View attachment 114146


Do you honestly think that Swole have the same quality of those two? Don´t make this a racial issue because it isn´t.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Two Sheds said:


> "Why is that crappy wrestler bringing her small child into the ring with her?"


JR: "OMG Big Swole just gave birth in the ring. That's why she had the name, Tony!".


----------



## ProWresBlog

Thomazbr said:


> Swole should really thank Tony because the truth is that the dude just made a hundred bookings for her on the independents with that tweet.


Oh yeah. She'll make a gimmick out of that one.


----------



## ShadowCounter

NathanMayberry said:


> What is 3 minute matches on YouTube going to do for her career?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nothing but she could always get better and be given a long term chance on Dynamite. She's appeared on it before already. WWE isn't pushing her full time on Raw or Smackdown given her....unpredictability IMO.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Does this happen in other American sports? Is there outrage over a lack of white players on basketball teams and a lack of black players on hockey teams? Identity politics are crazy, enough is never enough. AEW has had a bisexual world champion, a trans women's champion, two Asian women's champions, a black tag champion, two latino tag champions, a latino TNT champion, a slavic TNT champion, and a black (well, that's what Starks identifies as) FTW champion in their
> .


It's amazing how folk can't see shit from other perspectives lol. How do some of y'all spend the last 15 years watching numerous of the now average sized wrestlers was poetically about how so many of them loved guys like Bret, Owen, and HBK because they were more relatable because they weren't big hulking behemoths. That they guys like that made them believe they could actually get into the business. It's no different for black fans or female fans, than it is for the kinda chubby fan that enjoys the fact a guy like KO can be on their TV

AEW had 2 Asian women's champ, yet the green white woman got more TV time. AEW had a multicultural trans woman champ, yet the white green woman got more TV time. AEW had a black tag champ and his biggest story as champ was? It took a super over team like the Lucha Bros 2 years to get the titles. Certainly didn't take Kenny and Omega, The Bucks, and FTR that long


----------



## Wolf Mark

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Respect to Lio Rush for actually standing up to Tony Khan because all the others in the locker room absolutely don't have the balls to do it, What Khan said was out of line was it true? Probably, but when you're in a high position like he is you don't go tweeting stuff like that, ever. This is the same guy who regularly gets in arguments on Twitter with his own players in Jacksonville, as well as being hated for the most part by Fulham and Jacksonville fans, AEW fans are the only ones who actually like Tony.
> 
> Tony ain't got the maturity level of an owner, take away his Twitter account for the love of God, focus on your business and not feeling the need to spew useless garbage on Twitter.


I mostly agree with you....if it wasn't Lio. He has a tendency to constantly create drama.


----------



## TuNePeuxPas OK

This type of mentality always annoyed me (and I'm a poc), that ironically does not sound genuine in the slightest imo


----------



## 45banshee

Guys.. this was all a ploy by Tony to tweet that to get us not to watch Smackdown. 

Cause people are so focused on AEW and Tony I legit forgot Smwckdown was on lol


----------



## DRose1994

Boy oh boy, couldn’t agree less with the majority of what she said — namely the racial diversity and women’s opportunities points.

Who has AEW fielded/had on their roster that has deserved to be world champion, or has been even been close to being that level of over that was black? I can’t think of anyone. “It’s a scripted sport.” Yes, but someone still has to be over enough otherwise you lose fans along the ways because it looks like you’re pandering to a demographic.

Her point about Asians couldn’t have been more off, could it have? Riho and Shida have been two long reigning champions in the company with plenty of exposure and TV time (not to mention Nyla Rose, a native/African American trans person). Nakazawa has gotten an abundance of TV time — undeservingly, I might add — and any time they bring in anyone from Japan they herald it like the second coming.

And as it pertains to women not getting the same opportunities, it begs the question: why should they? Do they put asses in seats the way they’re top male stars do? Are fans equally as interested in what they offer? Of course not. So they’re booked accordingly. The opportunity is there to get over — even if one has to start on dark/YouTube.


----------



## Boldgerg

We live in a day and age where "embracing diversity" and "equality" now means handing things out to people who fit a certain profile, but who haven't necessarily earned and don't necessarily have the talent to actually deserve those things. Otherwise you're by default a racist/sexist/homophobe etc.

The world has gone completely and utterly insane.


----------



## Wolf Mark

45banshee said:


> So who is Brandi Rhoads gonna back up in this situation
> 
> View attachment 114140


HHAHAHAHAHA!!! Brandi always with the worst takes. Who is ever pissed when black talent hold championships? My God. Seems like you are talking about yourself, Brandi. And it has nothing to do that you are black that we don't want you.


----------



## Thomazbr

RapShepard said:


> It's amazing how folk can't see shit from other perspectives lol. How do some of y'all spend the last 15 years watching numerous of the now average sized wrestlers was poetically about how so many of them loved guys like Bret, Owen, and HBK because they were more relatable because they weren't big hulking behemoths. That they guys like that made them believe they could actually get into the business. It's no different for black fans or female fans, than it is for the kinda chubby fan that enjoys the fact a guy like KO can be on their TV
> 
> AEW had 2 Asian women's champ, yet the green white woman got more TV time. AEW had a multicultural trans woman champ, yet the white green woman got more TV time. AEW had a black tag champ and his biggest story as champ was? It took a super over team like the Lucha Bros 2 years to get the titles. Certainly didn't take Kenny and Omega, The Bucks, and FTR that long


Did she had more TV time? Because I feel like Shida had a lot of TV time. Mostly defending the belt, but I wouldn't say she was absent from there. She had so much TV time that people here were turning on her because she is more or less just "a good wrestler"


----------



## ShadowCounter

NathanMayberry said:


> Dafuq would I want to watch 4 talentless women wrestle in slow motion for?


Because it was a really good hardcore match allegedly.


----------



## RapShepard

Thomazbr said:


> Did she had more TV time? Because I feel like Shida had a lot of TV time. Mostly defending the belt, but I wouldn't say she was absent from there. She had so much TV time that people here were turning on her because she is more or less just "a good wrestler"


Shida sat in the crowd for weeks on end back when the wrestlers were ringside. Britt got the actual story against Swole despite being injured.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

NathanMayberry said:


> Tonight, I have a new found appreciation for this..
> 
> View attachment 114146


You a snickers fan?

I'm a milky way guy


----------



## Gn1212

They've gone all BLM on Tony lol.
Tony probably deserves this for giving his roster too much rope.


----------



## Chan Hung

Swole sucks and Tony Khan was right.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

AEW has a severe diversity problem. All the EVPs and Elite are white. Every new WWE signing is white. All the title holders are white ( lucha bros hispanic but still count as white in most gov stats )

Besides holding titles theres no black, asian, or latino wrestlers being pushed as top stars or contenders.

Then the womens division is non existent and only exist because WWE has one. The Baker experiment worked on getting Cole over so I bet thats dropped soon unless Tony wants to cuck Adam.


----------



## Thomazbr

CenaBoy4Life said:


> AEW has a severe diversity problem. All the EVPs and Elite are white. Every new WWE signing is white. All the title holders are white* ( lucha bros hispanic but still count as white in most gov stats )*
> 
> Besides holding titles theres no black, asian, or latino wrestlers being pushed as top stars or contenders.
> 
> Then the womens division is non existent and only exist because WWE has one. The Baker experiment worked on getting Cole over so I bet thats dropped soon unless Tony wants to cuck Adam.


This one feels silly.
Asian are even more """""white""""". So if hispanics and asians don't count when people talk about diversity are they only talking about blacks?


----------



## 45banshee

I'm surprised Tony didn't scream tweet I JUST SIGNED JAY LETHAL.

Better sign Keith Lee and Mia Yim. Mia fills two boxes being black and Asian


----------



## DZ Crew

This could grow into an entertaining twitter spat... On the one hand there's not a whole lot of diversity at the top of the card. However, that doesn't make the promotion racist. It's just WWE currently has the better main event caliber black talent. That's not to say AEW doesn't have black talent they should he pushing, like, where the hell has Hobbs been? This guy is arguably your best black talent and a potential star and he's doing nothing or getting beat by Pockets. Not acceptable. 

That being said... Swole was hot garbage in the ring. I understand her frustration with the women not getting enough tv time, but when the majority of them can hardly work why should they be on tv? Same issue for the shitty men in their division. If you're painfully green or can't wrestle get the hell off tv, doesn't matter what you've got between your legs; if you're bad at wrestling get off tv and learn how to work or find a new career.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Chadwixx said:


> Mark Henry and Lio Rush were recently added from WWE
> 
> Didnt that change with the Zimmerman case? Turns out he wasnt a white racist so they made him one (statistically) LOL


That made me remember that HEnry is supposed to be AEW's chief recruiter. lol


----------



## 45banshee

One final thing ill say about this before I'm out for this year.. this puts Jades TBS tournament match in a bad spot.

If Jade wins next week some are gonna say... he made her champion cause he don't want the backlash like he got Friday if he didn't tweeter would have ate his ass up.

If Jade loses... Fuck this pencil pusher man Swole was right he don't want blacks as champions.

Either Jade or Ruby would be great choices to win to be honest but because of today many are gonna be looking at that match to see if Tony makes Jade win the tournament or not


----------



## WrestleFAQ

RapShepard said:


> Anna Jay is allowed to be shitty on TV in a never ending foursome with Tay, Bunny, and Penelope.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

Diversity just for diversity's sake is stupid.

The problem that always rises here is that minorities are minorities. They're a minority, expecting this like 50/50 split with the majority and the minority is absurd.

There's also the issue that this sort of thing is always really focused on just African American people. A very particular type of diversity. But you look at AEW's roster and there's all manner of people from all manner of walks of life and all manner of cultural backgrounds.


----------



## Dr. Middy

When did this turn from "maybe they could do some more with the POC they have" to "today we need to hand people awards and achievements based on diversity and if you don't you're racist." (And I'm referring to the people on this thread using the second argument like the vast majority of people actually say that (when from what I can see they don't.)). 

If that's your argument, you probably don't have a good argument.


----------



## WrestleFAQ

rich110991 said:


> Jade has tweeted her support for Tony


Legit Lioness on suicide watch.


----------



## ShadowCounter

WrestleFAQ said:


> Legit Lioness on suicide watch.


Oh? I thought Legit was still camped outside Khan's house waiting to start a new thread on Tony's latest bowel movement.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Well, one has to say something for how much Swole’s BS was an attempt to delegitimise what the current non-white talent are doing

She basically no-sold everything Jade, Rosa, Hobbs, Dante, The Acclaimed etc etc etc are doing

Also basically no-sold any non-white in office - of which there are quite a few

I wonder why people are not more up in arms about that


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Swole beat Britt Baker on a PPV. Let that marinate.


----------



## Garty

WrestleFAQ said:


> Legit Lioness on suicide watch.


He'll probably say that "she has to say that because she's going to be the TBS Champion".


----------



## somerandomfan

45banshee said:


> Guys.. this was all a ploy by Tony to tweet that to get us not to watch Smackdown.
> 
> Cause people are so focused on AEW and Tony I legit forgot Smwckdown was on lol


They did a top moments of 2021 and were pushed over to FS1, so they basically weren't on.


----------



## Tobiyama

Swole is right about diversity. And Khan is right about Swole’s wrestling skills.

but khan being that emotional and that quick to respond is alarming. A guy like that will never beat Vince McMahon in business.


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Well, one has to say something for how much Swole’s BS was an attempt to delegitimise what the current non-white talent are doing
> 
> She basically no-sold everything Jade, Rosa, Hobbs, Dante, The Acclaimed etc etc etc are doing
> 
> Also basically no-sold any non-white in office - of which there are quite a few
> 
> I wonder why people are not more up in arms about that


As someone else had said earlier, you're a racist if you do address the subject that way.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Diversity just for diversity's sake is stupid.
> 
> The problem that always rises here is that minorities are minorities. They're a minority, expecting this like 50/50 split with the majority and the minority is absurd.
> 
> There's also the issue that this sort of thing is always really focused on just African American people. A very particular type of diversity. But you look at AEW's roster and there's all manner of people from all manner of walks of life and all manner of cultural backgrounds.


These same people think Black Panther was a diverse movie. They aren't too bright.


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Well, one has to say something for how much Swole’s BS was an attempt to delegitimise what the current non-white talent are doing
> 
> She basically no-sold everything Jade, Rosa, Hobbs, Dante, The Acclaimed etc etc etc are doing
> 
> Also basically no-sold any non-white in office - of which there are quite a few
> 
> I wonder why people are not more up in arms about that


Worse than that, she attacked Jade. It was never about diversity, it was about HER.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> Worse than that, she attacked Jade. It was never about diversity, it was about HER.


Yup 

always been about Jade

that is what the ‘if you are not creative, they have to want it for you‘ comment was about too - implying they are ‘making’ Jade

I’ve said from the start (when Swole was still employed and going on this kick - people can check my posts) - will Swole be happy if Jade gets that ‘diversity champion’ spot she’s talking about

or will she only be happy if its Swole

I think we know the answer


----------



## ripcitydisciple

AthleticGirth said:


> Swole using the race card is sadly predictable - she just makes herself look dumb considering the amount of non white talent AEW showcases. She just wasn't good enough and wasn't able to build up a fanbase of note.
> 
> The criticism of the creative process is more interesting. *Jack Evans has tweeted about it before and his frustrations that he's just lousy at coming up with ideas and creative pitches* - and felt bad that between that and his injuries he was hurting Angelico. Perhaps creative should be based on a case by case basis, with more structure and support given to those who struggle to communicate their ideas.


Why do you think they were paired with Matt Hardy? Why do you think there are so many factions?


----------



## WrestleFAQ

Two Sheds said:


> Worse than that, she attacked Jade. It was never about diversity, it was about HER.


Yep. That's the smoking gun proof.

Big Swole is a sociopath using race as a tool to peddle her narcissism.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

WrestleFAQ said:


> Yep. That's the smoking gun proof.
> 
> Big Swole is a sociopath using race as a tool to peddle her narcissism.


And she’s gonna ride this wave on the indies - and the vitriol will just become stronger / cause that is how she gets her attention

its just the way - wrestling stays carny


----------



## One Shed

WrestleFAQ said:


> Yep. That's the smoking gun proof.
> 
> Big Swole is a sociopath using race as a tool to peddle her narcissism.


Much easier to blame your failures in life on racism than have to admit to yourself that you are just not good at what you chose to do with your life.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Diversity just for diversity's sake is stupid.
> 
> The problem that always rises here is that minorities are minorities. They're a minority, expecting this like 50/50 split with the majority and the minority is absurd.
> 
> There's also the issue that this sort of thing is always really focused on just African American people. A very particular type of diversity. But you look at AEW's roster and there's all manner of people from all manner of walks of life and all manner of cultural backgrounds.


Maybe you should have spent time reading what she said, again instead of what you think she said.

She didn’t say there was a lack of diversity, she said there was a lack of prominent black wrestlers on AEW. 

I’m not even sure why or even how you’re trying to dispute that. 

They’ve been around for 2 and a half years and have had like 10 PPVs. How many times has a black wrestler had a feud and singles match in any one of those? This has nothing to do with 50/50, AEW isn’t even 10/90. 

Y’all keep bringing up shit she never said, to debate around whatever innate traumas y’all seem to have with the word diversity. That’s your own prerogative. 

But keep doing y’all. I can’t wait to see all the fake pandering that’s gonna happen in February. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr. Middy

Swole shitting on Jade definitely makes her look like an ass. I agree with her when it comes to utilizing who they have in regards to POC better, but it does feel like she is envious of Jade being in the spot she's in. That type of thing will make people not support you and water down whatever argument she has.

And even if you compare her and Jade, Jade walked in with an insane look and had an aura to her, two things Swole had just about 0% of.


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yup
> 
> always been about Jade
> 
> that is what the ‘if you are not creative, they have to want it for you‘ comment was about too - implying they are ‘making’ Jade
> 
> I’ve said from the start (when Swole was still employed and going on this kick - people can check my posts) - will Swole be happy if Jade gets that ‘diversity champion’ spot she’s talking about
> 
> or will she only be happy if its Swole
> 
> I think we know the answer


Can we use the quote, "The pot calling the kettle black", or am I wrong?!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Garty said:


> Can we use the quote, "The pot calling the kettle black", or am I wrong?!


uhmmmm…. Maybe not


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> uhmmmm…. Maybe not


Didn't think so!!!


----------



## Tobiyama

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Swole beat Britt Baker on a PPV. Let that marinate.


We had evidence that she was a bad wrestler. And Tony booked her to win that match. What is his explanation for that?

“I got that one wrong.”

something like that?


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

NathanMayberry said:


> Maybe you should have spent time reading what she said, again instead of what you think she said.
> 
> She didn’t say there was a lack of diversity, she said there was a lack of prominent black wrestlers on AEW.
> 
> I’m not even sure why or even how you’re trying to dispute that.
> 
> They’ve been around for 2 and a half years and have had like 10 PPVs. How many times has a black wrestler had a feud and singles match in any one of those? This has nothing to do with 50/50, AEW isn’t even 10/90.
> 
> Y’all keep bringing up shit she never said, to debate around whatever innate traumas y’all seem to have with the word diversity. That’s your own prerogative.
> 
> But keep doing y’all. I can’t wait to see all the fake pandering that’s gonna happen in February.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There have been 9 PPV's with multiple title matches since AEW started. There has been a POC competing for a title in every single one of them. She specifically says AEW lacks diversity.


----------



## RainmakerV2

45banshee said:


> One final thing ill say about this before I'm out for this year.. this puts Jades TBS tournament match in a bad spot.
> 
> If Jade wins next week some are gonna say... he made her champion cause he don't want the backlash like he got Friday if he didn't tweeter would have ate his ass up.
> 
> If Jade loses... Fuck this pencil pusher man Swole was right he don't want blacks as champions.
> 
> Either Jade or Ruby would be great choices to win to be honest but because of today many are gonna be looking at that match to see if Tony makes Jade win the tournament or not



Jade was always winning lol. You think they kept her unbeaten and just beat Rosa to turn around and lose to fuckin Ruby Soho? Lol.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

NathanMayberry said:


> Maybe you should have spent time reading what she said, again instead of what you think she said.
> 
> She didn’t say there was a lack of diversity, she said there was a lack of prominent black wrestlers on AEW.
> 
> I’m not even sure why or even how you’re trying to dispute that.
> 
> They’ve been around for 2 and a half years and have had like 10 PPVs. How many times has a black wrestler had a feud and singles match in any one of those? This has nothing to do with 50/50, AEW isn’t even 10/90.
> 
> Y’all keep bringing up shit she never said, to debate around whatever innate traumas y’all seem to have with the word diversity. That’s your own prerogative.
> 
> But keep doing y’all. I can’t wait to see all the fake pandering that’s gonna happen in February.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What are you even on about? Maybe you should have spent time reading what she said instead of what you think she said.

She literally talked about a lack of diversity for Latino's, Asians, etc in AEW, not just blacks. You're just playing the "who's the biggest victim" card.


----------



## ShadowCounter

RainmakerV2 said:


> Jade was always winning lol. You think they kept her unbeaten and just beat Rosa to turn around and lose to fuckin Ruby Soho? Lol.


Maybe if the goal was to keep Rosa busy for a month or 2 until she can take the belt off Baker. Other than that...


----------



## JasmineAEW

If you pay attention to her social media, Swole has always had a history of wearing her race or skin color on her sleeve. It’s like everything to her is about race. Of course, she’s entitled to feel that way, but speaking for myself I couldn’t possibly care less about having diversity just for diversity’s sake.

Tony Khan should have simply ignored her comments or, better yet, simply take the high road. He could easily have said, “I disagree with Swole’s comments, but I think she’s a talented performer, and I wish her all the best.” And just leave it at that. You don’t always have to return fire.

I think most of us who follow AEW realized that Swole would not get her contract renewed. While she wasn’t a horrible performer, I don’t think she was ever going to be great.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Forum Dud said:


> I love some of the responses in the comments to TK's tweet.
> 
> "IMAGINE VINCE SAYING SOMETHING LIKE THIS!!"
> "Bruh he said the N word on TV why ain't you angry bout that".


Comments like that tell me they are not wrestling fans. They are clout chasers who look to see what is trending/viral who then join in to have the feeling of 'making a difference' and importance in their otherwise sad mundane lives.


----------



## ShadowCounter

JasmineAEW said:


> If you pay attention to her social media, Swole has always had a history of wearing her race or skin color on her sleeve. It’s like everything to her is about race. Of course, she’s entitled to feel that way, but speaking for myself I couldn’t possibly care less about having diversity just for diversity’s sake.
> 
> Tony Khan should have simply ignored her comments or, better yet, simply take the high road. He could easily have said, “I disagree with Swole’s comments, but I think she’s a talented performer, and I wish her all the best.” And just leave it at that. You don’t always have to return fire.
> 
> I think most of us who follow AEW realized that Swole would not get her contract renewed. While she wasn’t a horrible performer, I don’t think she was ever going to be great.



Kinda interesting that the week Jade makes the TBS title finals this comes out. Especially in light of that tweet someone posted earlier where Swole was complaining about how Jade was gonna win it and not her. Khan should have ignored her though. Anyone claiming AEW isn't diverse enough is blind. Or what they really mean by not diverse enough is not black enough. Also not a criticism I share but at least I could understand where that is coming from. But then say that. Don't substitute diverse in when you mean black.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Undertaker23RKO said:


> There have been 9 PPV's with multiple title matches since AEW started. There has been a POC competing for a title in every single one of them. She specifically says AEW lacks diversity.


I didn’t ask you for people of color I asked you specifically for black wrestlers. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Thomazbr

NathanMayberry said:


> I didn’t ask you for people of color I asked you specifically for black wrestlers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Scorpio Sky has been in a lot of PPVs actually.


----------



## JasmineAEW

ShadowCounter said:


> Kinda interesting that the week Jade makes the TBS title finals this comes out. Especially in light of that tweet someone posted earlier where Swole was complaining about how Jade was gonna win it and not her. Khan should have ignored her though. Anyone claiming AEW isn't diverse enough is blind. Or what they really mean by not diverse enough is not black enough. Also not a criticism I share but at least I could understand where that is coming from. But then say that. Don't substitute diverse in when you mean black.


I don’t know why Swole would be upset at Jade Cargill getting a big push. It’s been pretty obvious that AEW has been grooming her to be a star. She has the athleticism and unique look to be something special in the near future. Swole simply doesn’t have that. At least not right now.


----------



## CM Buck

I'm way too white to comment on this. ShadowCounter wrestlefaq can we atleast quote the people we want to start fights with and not talk about them behind their back ?


----------



## One Shed

JasmineAEW said:


> “I disagree with Swole’s comments, *but I think she’s a talented performer*, and I wish her all the best.”


That would have made him a liar.



JasmineAEW said:


> While she wasn’t a horrible performer


She was.


----------



## One Shed

JasmineAEW said:


> I don’t know why Swole would be upset at Jade Cargill getting a big push. It’s been pretty obvious that AEW has been grooming her to be a star. She has the athleticism and unique look to be something special in the near future. Swole simply doesn’t have that. At least not right now.


It is obvious. The person getting the push was not Swole. End of story.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

NathanMayberry said:


> I didn’t ask you for people of color I asked you specifically for black wrestlers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't care what you asked for. I'm giving you an answer based off what SHE asked for.


----------



## Thomazbr

Nyla Rose is also a very frequent appearance on PPVs.


----------



## JasmineAEW

Two Sheds said:


> That would have made him a liar.
> 
> 
> She was.


If you say so. I thought she was pretty decent in the ring. Not great by any stretch, but capable.


----------



## Thomazbr

JasmineAEW said:


> If you say so. I thought she was pretty decent in the ring. Not great by any stretch, but capable.


She was pretty terrible but so are most women


----------



## One Shed

JasmineAEW said:


> If you say so. I thought she was pretty decent in the ring. Not great by any stretch, but capable.


It is definitely not just me saying so. "I cannot wait for the next Big Swole match!" is definitely a sentence no human has ever uttered. Either way, at least we seem to agree she would have no business being anywhere near any title.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Lio is gonna go nuts on Tony lmao.

Starks deleted his twitter.

Tony is fucked up this is going to end badly. All the dude had to do was say nothing, but the coked up idiot couldnt resist. Now lets see if Daddy Dave will jump in with a racist comment to defend Tony.


----------



## Klitschko

Hey guys, this thread has exploded way too fast on New Years. I don't want to go through 20 pages. Can anyone give me a summary of what's been happening please? Thanks.


----------



## stew mack

I feel her when she says her daughter didnt want to watch cause no one looks like her.... i dont watch the nba for the same reason and the nfl is certainly losing my interest year by year, although cooper kupp has piqued it.


----------



## One Shed

Klitschko said:


> Hey guys, this thread has exploded way too fast on New Years. I don't want to go through 20 pages. Can anyone give me a summary of what's been happening please? Thanks.


Swole blamed her failures on racism. Tony decided to tweet that he is brown, therefore protected under Woke Law, and that Swole is just not that good. The universe then proceeded to explode as expected.


----------



## stew mack

Krin said:


> she needs to just shut up and start her own wrestling company then. call it DRW , Diversity Representation Wrestling



her, riho, mia khalifa and bailey jay can all start a wrestling federation and fight over who sucks worse


----------



## Thomazbr

Klitschko said:


> Hey guys, this thread has exploded way too fast on New Years. I don't want to go through 20 pages. Can anyone give me a summary of what's been happening please? Thanks.


Read the first page for Swole comments then read this tweet by Tony Khan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376
And this picture are the battle lines.


----------



## JerryMark

representation matters but a variety of people ARE represented in aew. she was just the shits...


while i'm here put some respek on powerhouse hobbs' name.


----------



## One Shed

stew mack said:


> her, riho, mia khalifa and bailey jay can all start a wrestling federation and fight over who sucks worse


I mean, Mia sucks pretty well, no?


----------



## Thomazbr

stew mack said:


> her, riho, mia khalifa and bailey jay can all start a wrestling federation and fight over who sucks worse


Hey bro, say what you want about Riho and her size or whatever, but she gives the best match of most woman of this roster.


----------



## One Shed

Thomazbr said:


> Read the first page for Swole comments then read this tweet by Tony Khan
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376
> And this picture are the battle lines.
> 
> View attachment 114155


Does that make Jade an Uncle Tom? Or...what would the kids say? Aunt Karen?


----------



## AthleticGirth

stew mack said:


> I feel her when she says her daughter didnt want to watch cause no one looks like her....


Just on that, and as aside, AEW did a promotional segment on Swole where she was shooting on her illness and made this powerful tearful speech about how she'll never be able to have kids and pass on her experiences to a new generation.

I was moved by it and it stayed with me, only to now know she had a daughter waiting for her at home - that's a shitty thing for both her and AEW to lie about.


----------



## stew mack

The Legit Lioness said:


> *We know Swole isn't a great wrestler, but the response was completely tone deaf and inappropriate, given the scope of what was being discussed in her criticisms.*



some of us are just sick and fucking tired of it ya dig?


----------



## JerryMark

my guy

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477147743025975296


----------



## Seth Grimes

What a surprise that Swole used her race to deflect from the fact that she's just a shit wrestler. 



RapShepard said:


> 6. No AEW doesn't use other races and ethnicities well either. Shida and Riho were champ, yet Britt a green Britt was the star of the division getting the true focus. Proud and Powerful have done fuck all in their 2 years in the company, easy argument they've been just as underused as WWE would've underused them. Hell even the Lucha Bros are just now getting steam in the last 4 months.
> 
> 7. Yes we get wrestling fans are majority white, but just like white people like to see successful white people in arenas they don't dominate like say basketball and rap, non white wrestling fans like to see people like them be successful in wrestling. In an era where WWE is getting better at using it's black and female talent, the AEW is young so it has to be super white male song sit for some.


I think the thing with 6 is that aren't most people who aren't white/black straight up foreign? It's not a case of white/black/asian/brown etc, but more American vs people who speak English as a second or third language, and that's even if they can speak it at all. Look at England for example, we are huge on wrestling, and where is our representation? We have British Bulldog from 25+ years ago, William Regal who was a perennial mid carder/jobber, Wade Barrett, and now Pete Dunne who looks like he'll never get out of the developmental show. There's only slightly more black Americans than people in England, yet comparing the two, the English get absolutely hammered in talks of achievements. So does this mean wrestling has a problem with English people, and needs to start pushing them so that the rest of the people here can see themselves represented? That's not even considering alllllll the other countries that have never even had someone from their country do anything in the big leagues. Would you also say the same for the likes of Sonny Kiss? That he deserves to be pushed so that the trans/BIPOC/queer communities have representation, even despite how godawful he is?

I'm not sure white people like to see successful white people tbh. I've never really once got this feeling from anyone, white people outside of the supremacists don't typically care for people who merely share their skin colour imo. As far as the WWE thing goes, I'm starting to think some people are actually getting further than they deserve because they are the favourite minority, which is black. Let's be real, when people talk about minorities, they mostly only mean or care about black people. When I look at people like Big E having the title put on him after such a lacklustre IC title run, it does make me wonder if they're only doing it to pander. Which with people crying like Swole and that guy who cried racism a year or two ago, (forgot his name but he had a huge thread on here), that plays into it even further. We really cannot ignore the fact that there is a lot of people using their identities for gains, identity politics feels insanely popular and powerful now. Like I don't think Nyla would have been hired if they weren't trans, Sonny Kiss wouldn't have been hired if they weren't queer/trans/black, Big Swole wouldn't have been hired if she weren't black, and Marko Stunt wouldn't have gotten the job if he wasn't legally suffering from dwarfism. There are so many companies that are exposed these days for having illegal "quotas" where they are trying to avoid hiring straight white men out of a feeling that they might be seen as "old fashioned" or "bigoted", I mean, it's good PR to hire lots of minorities and LGBT+. So I don't think wrestling companies, especially ones ran by brown people, are making any sorts of attempts to only push white men. If it's happening, you have to look at why they might not be producing talent at the same rate, rather than assuming they are but they're being held back by racism. Possibly more white people actually want to become wrestlers, because black people dominate athletic sports so they just go to the sport where athletics aren't the most important thing, maybe they have averagely more money so can pay for better coaching, or pay for it at all. Considering all these things you could argue black people are overrepresented, especially in the last few years in WWE where there's been a tonne of black champions, and black people pushed



RapShepard said:


> The issue is why are non-elite white talent like Britt, Hook, Anna Jay, The Bunny, and Penelope Ford are allowed to grow and find a groove on TV by those in power, but green non-white talent is hidden away mostly on YouTube.


For every non-elite white talent who somehow stayed on the main show, there is probably 10 of them who just like Swole only appear on dark and got binned off. I don't think it's a matter of race, it's a matter of potential. Swole isn't seen as having that potential



RapShepard said:


> The issue is folk don't initially argue that. Initially they argue "oh Swole isn't used because she sucked". Well White Britt sucked when the show first started, but she was allowed to grow in real time as a character and performer. Low and behold she's now a bright spot in wrestling in general. I'm not saying Swole would've done the same if given that opportunity. I'm just saying if the shitty white girl can grow on TV, why can't the shitty black girl.


I mean isn't that what they're currently trying to do with Jade Cargill?

I feel like you should step back and have a look at things, cause I dunno if you're not seeing the whole picture, or just still with a mindset from the past. But black people as you said are dominating rap, the biggest genre of music in the world, they are dominating sports like NBA, highly represented in football, NFL and MMA. Loads of movies being released with full-half black casts, ads on TV, thankfully you guys are everywhere, movies, music, TV, youtube, sports, and mind, this is in a western world where you are 1% of Europe, and 16% of USA. I'd say you're doing pretty well for yourselves, and you think we still need more people forced into positions for more representation? I feel bad for anyone that isn't white or black, cause they are getting fuck all representation at this point tbh. They can't even bring up diversity, and expect to get anything from it, cause that for the most part seems to only mean woman/black.


----------



## Dr. Middy

stew mack said:


> her, riho, mia khalifa and bailey jay can all start a wrestling federation and fight over who sucks worse


No dissing Bailey Jay, she's hot AF.


----------



## stew mack

Dr. Middy said:


> No dissing Bailey Jay, she's hot AF.


yeah but she still SUCKS if you get what i mean. im more of a aubrey kate guy you know a high school friend did a scene with her? lucky fuck lol


----------



## stew mack

Thomazbr said:


> Hey bro, say what you want about Riho and her size or whatever, but she gives the best match of most woman of this roster.



bro she can wrestle 65 star matches and it wouldnt matter because seeing her little ass win matches just reminds me this is all fake in a way thats horrible. i cannot suspen disbelief and dont bring up Eddie or Rey when they both were jacked to the gills!


----------



## Chan Hung

Swole is using the race card and it will backfire majorly. AEW has been very inclusive since the beginning with Nyla Rose and others including letting minorities get on national TV. I dont always agree with Khan, but he's right to basically call out Swole and say this isnt about race, rather you suck in the ring LOL


----------



## Prosper

20 pages in like 2 hours lol happy new years people I’ll respond at dawn when I’m sober


----------



## Thomazbr




----------



## Upstart474

Tony Khan vs Big Swole in a street fight match, book it Tony.


----------



## Thomazbr

Two Sheds said:


> Does that make Jade an Uncle Tom? Or...what would the kids say? Aunt Karen?


Uncle Tom is some peak American nonsense tbh.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Chan Hung said:


> Swole is using the race card and it will backfire majorly. AEW has been very inclusive since the beginning with Nyla Rose and others including letting minorities get on national TV. I dont always agree with Khan, but he's right to basically call out Swole and say this isnt about race, rather you suck in the ring LOL


Tony lets minorities be on national TV. wow what a great man, a real hero. bravo.


----------



## JasmineAEW

Thomazbr said:


> View attachment 114158


“Should be the one y’all still owe…”

What does that even mean?


----------



## Tobiyama

If Ruby was going to win. Then That’s gone now lol.


----------



## One Shed

Thomazbr said:


> Uncle Tom is some peak American nonsense tbh.


Yes, it really is.


----------



## Mister Sinister

1. She is right that there isn't enough variety. They are not serious about a Latino or black world champion in 2022. The first four have been white, and we know the next will be Danielson or Punk.
2. The women aren't given attention they deserve. They are most often stuck away in Q7 in a singular match. They never open the show. If they get a big quarter hour number like Shida vs Ford, you never see that program again.
3. This has been handled very bad. Lio is cussing Tony Khan out on Twitter, and Starks has deleted his account.


----------



## RapShepard

Seth Grimes said:


> What a surprise that Swole used her race to deflect from the fact that she's just a shit wrestler.
> 
> 
> I think the thing with 6 is that aren't most people who aren't white/black straight up foreign? It's not a case of white/black/asian/brown etc, but more American vs people who speak English as a second or third language, and that's even if they can speak it at all. Look at England for example, we are huge on wrestling, and where is our representation? We have British Bulldog from 25+ years ago, William Regal who was a perennial mid carder/jobber, Wade Barrett, and now Pete Dunne who looks like he'll never get out of the developmental show. There's only slightly more black Americans than people in England, yet comparing the two, the English get absolutely hammered in talks of achievements. So does this mean wrestling has a problem with English people, and needs to start pushing them so that the rest of the people here can see themselves represented? That's not even considering alllllll the other countries that have never even had someone from their country do anything in the big leagues. Would you also say the same for the likes of Sonny Kiss? That he deserves to be pushed so that the trans/BIPOC/queer communities have representation, even despite how godawful he is?
> 
> I'm not sure white people like to see successful white people tbh. I've never really once got this feeling from anyone, white people outside of the supremacists don't typically care for people who merely share their skin colour imo. As far as the WWE thing goes, I'm starting to think some people are actually getting further than they deserve because they are the favourite minority, which is black. Let's be real, when people talk about minorities, they mostly only mean or care about black people. When I look at people like Big E having the title put on him after such a lacklustre IC title run, it does make me wonder if they're only doing it to pander. Which with people crying like Swole and that guy who cried racism a year or two ago, (forgot his name but he had a huge thread on here), that plays into it even further. We really cannot ignore the fact that there is a lot of people using their identities for gains, identity politics feels insanely popular and powerful now. Like I don't think Nyla would have been hired if they weren't trans, Sonny Kiss wouldn't have been hired if they weren't queer/trans/black, Big Swole wouldn't have been hired if she weren't black, and Marko Stunt wouldn't have gotten the job if he wasn't legally suffering from dwarfism. There are so many companies that are exposed these days for having illegal "quotas" where they are trying to avoid hiring straight white men out of a feeling that they might be seen as "old fashioned" or "bigoted", I mean, it's good PR to hire lots of minorities and LGBT+. So I don't think wrestling companies, especially ones ran by brown people, are making any sorts of attempts to only push white men. If it's happening, you have to look at why they might not be producing talent at the same rate, rather than assuming they are but they're being held back by racism. Possibly more white people actually want to become wrestlers, because black people dominate athletic sports so they just go to the sport where athletics aren't the most important thing, maybe they have averagely more money so can pay for better coaching, or pay for it at all. Considering all these things you could argue black people are overrepresented, especially in the last few years in WWE where there's been a tonne of black champions, and black people pushed
> 
> 
> For every non-elite white talent who somehow stayed on the main show, there is probably 10 of them who just like Swole only appear on dark and got binned off. I don't think it's a matter of race, it's a matter of potential. Swole isn't seen as having that potential
> 
> 
> I mean isn't that what they're currently trying to do with Jade Cargill?
> 
> I feel like you should step back and have a look at things, cause I dunno if you're not seeing the whole picture, or just still with a mindset from the past. But black people as you said are dominating rap, the biggest genre of music in the world, they are dominating sports like NBA, highly represented in football, NFL and MMA. Loads of movies being released with full-half black casts, ads on TV, thankfully you guys are everywhere, movies, music, TV, youtube, sports, and mind, this is in a western world where you are 1% of Europe, and 16% of USA. I'd say you're doing pretty well for yourselves, and you think we still need more people forced into positions for more representation? I feel bad for anyone that isn't white or black, cause they are getting fuck all representation at this point tbh. They can't even bring up diversity, and expect to get anything from it, cause that for the most part seems to only mean woman/black.


1. Idk how long you've been online, but I've been online since 2005 and Vince not putting thee title on a English wrestler has always been a talking point. Hell even the valid "why do they have to be the evil Englishman" thing has been a consistent talking point. Barrett and Bulldog are common cases of misused English stars. 

2. White people seeing other white people point doesn't really make any sense when discussing representation for minorities. White people in the UK and US are represented heavily in the media and entertainment, because they're the majority group. Okay fair. But other groups do exist, so it's weird when white people get so confused on why non-white people might want representation. 

3. It's also weird when folk use the "oh you see there's not more representation because they're not talented enough". Because then it just glosses over all the shitty majority folk that are allowed to exist. Again Britt Baker was actively shitty and was put on TV and allowed to grow. 

4. Yeah shit like rap and basketball are predominantly black, yet your whole argument falls apart when you have to acknowledge that the white talent that pop off in these things flourish even more because the majority white America likes to be able to relate. 

5. Other minorites should be fighting their own battles. Like the way Asian talent is used in WWE and AEW I'd be annoyed. The WWE's insistence that every masked luchador needs to be the next Mysterio would annoy me if I was Hispanic.


----------



## Fearless Viper

So this is the beginning of the cracks in the we're the happiest locker room in history facade. Should be fun to watch.


----------



## Thomazbr

RapShepard said:


> 1. Idk how long you've been online, but I've been online since 2005 and Vince not putting thee title on a English wrestler has always been a talking point. Hell even the valid "why do they have to be the evil Englishman" thing has been a consistent talking point. Barrett and Bulldog are common cases of misused English stars.
> 
> 2. White people seeing other white people point doesn't really make any sense when discussing representation for minorities. White people in the UK and US are represented heavily in the media and entertainment, because they're the majority group. Okay fair. But other groups do exist, so it's weird when white people get so confused on why non-white people might want representation.
> 
> 3. It's also weird when folk use the "oh you see there's not more representation because they're not talented enough". Because then it just glosses over all the shitty majority folk that are allowed to exist. Again Britt Baker was actively shitty and was put on TV and allowed to grow.
> 
> 4. Yeah shit like rap and basketball are predominantly black, yet your whole argument falls apart when you have to acknowledge that the white talent that pop off in these things flourish even more because the majority white America likes to be able to relate.
> 
> 5. Other minorites should be fighting their own battles. Like the way Asian talent is used in WWE and AEW I'd be annoyed. The WWE's insistence that every masked luchador needs to be the next Mysterio would annoy me if I was Hispanic.


I just want to say that Swole was "allowed to exist" for quite a while.


----------



## RapShepard

Thomazbr said:


> I just want to say that Swole was "allowed to exist" for quite a while.


Sure... And so was white Britt until she got good


----------



## Thomazbr

RapShepard said:


> Sure... And so was white Britt until she got good


Yes.
Swole just didn't get good.


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> Sure... And so was white Britt until she got good


Swole never got good.


----------



## Klitschko

Lol at comparing Swole to Baker. Cmon now lol.


----------



## RapShepard

Thomazbr said:


> Yes.
> Swole just didn't get good.


How was she supposed to get good tucked away on Dark, Britt got a shit ton of TV time to get good


----------



## Thomazbr

I think Britt sucks but at least in that case I know I'm in the deep minority.
When I say Swole sucks, I'm just one more voice into the crowd of people who overwhelmingly agreed until TK decided to be "racially insensitive"



RapShepard said:


> How was she supposed to get good tucked away on Dark, Britt got a shit ton of TV time to get good


I watch Dark dude.
Shawn Spears has a more fun run there than Swole.


----------



## RapShepard

Two Sheds said:


> Swole never got good.





Klitschko said:


> Lol at comparing Swole to Baker. Cmon now lol.


How much TV time and effort was put into 2019 and 2020 Britt until she got good 

We're not about to play this game like she was just awesome from the get go and that her growth had nothing to do with her getting the most focus of all the women.


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> How much TV time and effort was put into 2019 and 2020 Britt until she got good
> 
> We're not about to play this game like she was just awesome from the get go and that her growth had nothing to do with her getting the most focus of all the women.


Barely any. Britt turned it around barely two months after TV started at the Jericho cruise in January 2020. Nine months later they made the (much panned) decision to have Swole beat her at All Out. No one liked it, because nothing Swole has ever done on TV has ever been good.


----------



## RoganJosh

Lol at that pip squeak lio rush piping up. Sack his arse. Is he on a contract?

Why did Starks delete his account?

Nobody will be giving Swole a job after this, playing the race card just because she cant handle the fact that she's a shit wrestler. There is plenty of representation on AEW telly. Also I don't want to see a minority champion just to pander to the BLM movement. The champ has to be good enough to carry the title and I don't know if there is anyone in AEW who is a minority who is good enough to be champ. Look at Big E as champ how's that working out for the ratings? He's bland as fuck as was Kofi but it's obvious WWE are just pandering to BLM.


----------



## Thomazbr

RapShepard said:


> How much TV time and effort was put into 2019 and 2020 Britt until she got good
> 
> We're not about to play this game like she was just awesome from the get go and that her growth had nothing to do with her getting the most focus of all the women.


Dark is literally made so that people can get their mechanics in place. Dark is also made so that you can pad your rankings so you can justify some bullshit title challenge. Butcher and the Blade somehow after manage to win 0 feuds are constant title challengers because they are or were regular Dark guys who would go beat like 4 jobber teams and somehow get enough records to put him in the rankings for some bullshit justification.
Swole still sucks on a fundamental level. Now you can say that her having Crohns probably fucks her up, and fair enough, that's some tough cards to draw, but she was and, honestly last time I saw her, she still sucks.


----------



## Thomazbr

RoganJosh said:


> Lol at that pip squeak lio rush piping up. Sack his arse. Is he on a contract?
> 
> Why did Starks delete his account?
> 
> Nobody will be giving Swole a job after this, playing the race card just because she cant handle the fact that she's a shit wrestler. There is plenty of representation on AEW telly. Also I don't want to see a minority champion just to pander to the BLM movement. The champ has to be good enough to carry the title and I don't know if there is anyone in AEW who is a minority who is good enough to be champ. Look at Big E as champ how's that working out for the ratings? He's bland as fuck as was Kofi but it's obvious WWE are just pandering to BLM.


Nah she is fine.
Tony Khan with that tweet actually secured a bunch of her immediate future bookings. She is now the underdog "for the culture" black wrestler who got screwed by management who was also part of a major promotion.
She will have a hot first months of bookings.


----------



## RoganJosh

RapShepard said:


> How much TV time and effort was put into 2019 and 2020 Britt until she got good
> 
> We're not about to play this game like she was just awesome from the get go and that her growth had nothing to do with her getting the most focus of all the women.


You are obviously black yourself that is why you have support for Swole but just accept it she's rubbish in the ring. She got her shot at the big time and flopped.


----------



## bozojeff

TLDR - "I'm not very creative and didn't want to put work into learning how to craft and deliver interesting promos... Or learn from real wrestlers how to wrestle. Therefore I'm going to pretend I wasn't fired and cry lack of diversity"

Dumb ho


----------



## RapShepard

Two Sheds said:


> Barely any. Britt turned it around barely two months after TV started at the Jericho cruise in January 2020. Nine months later they made the (much panned) decision to have Swole beat her at All Out. No one liked it, because nothing Swole has ever done on TV has ever been good.


You're contradicting yourself. Face Britt was rejected because she was green and not a good character. YET she was allowed to stay on TV and find her way. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because she's one of the funnest characters in wrestling. 

The point is simply this idea that "oh well AEW doesn't have more diverse talent in prominent positions because they're not total packages" just doesn't hold up when a Britt has spent her entire time getting the most attention even when she was green and shitty. 



Thomazbr said:


> Dark is literally made so that people can get their mechanics in place. Dark is also made so that you can pad your rankings so you can justify some bullshit title challenge. Butcher and the Blade somehow after manage to win 0 feuds are constant title challengers because they are or were regular Dark guys who would go beat like 4 jobber teams and somehow get enough records to put him in the rankings for some bullshit justification.
> Swole still sucks on a fundamental level. Now you can say that her having Crohns probably fucks her up, and fair enough, that's some tough cards to draw, but she was and, honestly last time I saw her, she still sucks.


None of this shit matters and you're smart enough to know that about dark. Dark gets at best a 3rd of the dynamite viewing audience. It's hard to grow and connect with fans when you're regulated to the show the majority of the audience doesn't watch. I can't believe you actually tried to pretend Dark shit mattered, go stand in the corner for that shit man lol.


----------



## RoganJosh

Thomazbr said:


> Nah she is fine.
> Tony Khan with that tweet actually secured a bunch of her immediate future bookings. She is now the underdog "for the culture" black wrestler who got screwed by management who was also part of a major promotion.
> She will have a hot first months of bookings.


Maybe she could have a BLM superhero kind of gimmick with her band of merry men starting with that pip squeak lio rush.


----------



## Thomazbr

RapShepard said:


> You're contradicting yourself. Face Britt was rejected because she was green and not a good character. YET she was allowed to stay on TV and find her way. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because she's one of the funnest characters in wrestling.
> 
> The point is simply this idea that "oh well AEW doesn't have more diverse talent in prominent positions because they're not total packages" just doesn't hold up when a Britt has spent her entire time getting the most attention even when she was green and shitty.
> 
> 
> 
> None of this shit matters and you're smart enough to know that about dark. Dark gets at best a 3rd of the dynamite viewing audience. It's hard to grow and connect with fans when you're regulated to the show the majority of the audience doesn't watch. I can't believe you actually tried to pretend Dark shit mattered, go stand in the corner for that shit man lol.


Shit man, I'm saying in Dark you can become a "good wrestler"
She didn't bro.
I'm not going to say to this day, because it's been a while, but last time I saw her, she was still a bad wrestler.

if I can grow to enjoy Shawn Spears out of all people in Dark, I should be able to enjoy Big Swole.


----------



## JasmineAEW

I just thought of this. Having a show called “Dark” is racist!


----------



## Tobiyama

RoganJosh said:


> Lol at that pip squeak lio rush piping up. Sack his arse. Is he on a contract?
> 
> Why did Starks delete his account?
> 
> Nobody will be giving Swole a job after this, playing the race card just because she cant handle the fact that she's a shit wrestler. There is plenty of representation on AEW telly. Also I don't want to see a minority champion just to pander to the BLM movement. The champ has to be good enough to carry the title and I don't know if there is anyone in AEW who is a minority who is good enough to be champ. Look at Big E as champ how's that working out for the ratings? He's bland as fuck as was Kofi but it's obvious WWE are just pandering to BLM.


Bobby lashley was a much better champion than Big E. Because he had MVP with him to cancel out some of his shortcomings.


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> You're contradicting yourself. Face Britt was rejected because she was green and not a good character. YET she was allowed to stay on TV and find her way. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because she's one of the funnest characters in wrestling.
> 
> The point is simply this idea that "oh well AEW doesn't have more diverse talent in prominent positions because they're not total packages" just doesn't hold up when a Britt has spent her entire time getting the most attention even when she was green and shitty.


Swole was "allowed" (aka paid) to stay on TV to try and do something too, and as I said, BEAT Britt nine months later. Everyone hated the Tooth and Nail match, nothing Swole ever did on TV got even close to getting over. Jade got over on her first appearance, hence Swole hates Jade. It is just ridiculous for her to be making this a race-based thing. She sucks.


----------



## RapShepard

RoganJosh said:


> You are obviously black yourself that is why you have support for Swole but just accept it she's rubbish in the ring. She got her shot at the big time and flopped.


I've never pretended Swole was good. But y'all have got to stop pretending it's simply a talent thing when minorities bring these issues up, because it pretends that talent is all that matters.


----------



## One Shed

JasmineAEW said:


> I just thought of this. Having a show called “Dark” is racist!


Especially making Dark the least important show! What does Dynamite make when it explodes? A bright light! What is bright? White. Game over Tony.


----------



## RoganJosh

Tobiyama said:


> Bobby lashley was a much better champion than Big E. Because he had MVP with him to cancel out some of his shortcomings.


Yes defo, Lashley was a badass champ. Nobody will ever compare to the Rock though.


----------



## Thomazbr

Two Sheds said:


> Especially making Dark the least important show! What does Dyniamite make when it explodes? A bright light! What is bright? White. Game over Tony.


Dark is more fun than elevation tbh.
At least when Dark is on the studio.


----------



## One Shed

Thomazbr said:


> Dark is more fun than elevation tbh.
> At least when Dark is on the studio.


But it is not Elevation, it is Dark Elevation, which by definition means it is elevated over Dark.


----------



## Thomazbr

Two Sheds said:


> But it is not Elevation, it is Dark Elevation, which by definition means it is elevated over Dark.


Yeah but that's a lie.
Like when Tony said he thought Swole was a good wrestler.


----------



## RapShepard

Thomazbr said:


> Shit man, I'm saying in Dark you can become a "good wrestler"
> She didn't bro.
> I'm not going to say to this day, because it's been a while, but last time I saw her, she was still a bad wrestler.
> 
> if I can grow to enjoy Shawn Spears out of all people in Dark, I should be able to enjoy Big Swole.


Again how great are people improving on Dark, if Dark was this breeding ground for improvement surely you'd have more than just one name to applaud. 



Two Sheds said:


> Swole was "allowed" (aka paid) to stay on TV to try and do something too, and as I said, BEAT Britt nine months later. Everyone hated the Tooth and Mail match, nothing Swole ever did on TV got even close to getting over. Jade got over on her first appearance, hence Swole hates Jade. It is just ridiculous for her to be making this a race-based thing. She sucks.


Again Britt was allowed to suck on TV for months and learn and grow. Hell Britt was apart of a widely panned PPV match, lost it, yet somehow she's the one that remained on TV? Hell even with Jade we gonna pretend she ain't divisive for the fan base?


----------



## Thomazbr

RapShepard said:


> Again how great are people improving on Dark, if Dark was this breeding ground for improvement surely you'd have more than just one name to applaud.
> 
> 
> 
> Again Britt was allowed to suck on TV for months and learn and grow. Hell Britt was apart of a widely panned PPV match, lost it, yet somehow she's the one that remained on TV? Hell even with Jade we gonna pretend she ain't divisive for the fan base?


Sonny Kiss and Joey Janela had a pretty fun feud on DARK if you ask me.


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> Again how great are people improving on Dark, if Dark was this breeding ground for improvement surely you'd have more than just one name to applaud.
> 
> 
> 
> Again Britt was allowed to suck on TV for months and learn and grow. Hell Britt was apart of a widely panned PPV match, lost it, yet somehow she's the one that remained on TV? Hell even with Jade we gonna pretend she ain't divisive for the fan base?


Swole was allowed to suck on TV and not grow.


----------



## JasmineAEW

Tay Conti and Red Velvet are good examples of women who used Dark to hone their skills and get over with the crowd. Both showed promise in the ring, good looks and charisma, and now they get occasionally featured on Dynamite and Rampage.

As I mentioned, Swole wasn’t terrible in the ring. But she never got over with the crowd enough to warrant more air time. And she isn‘t very attractive.


----------



## Upstart474

Fearless Viper said:


> So this is the beginning of the cracks in the we're the happiest locker room in history facade. Should be fun to watch.


When people get released, you will get the real person. I think Ivelisse also said some negative about AEW. All promotions have scandals so I wonder how is Tony Khan handles it.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

People are so wrapped up in swoles abilitiy and just wanting to bash her as a angry black woman.

When she is advocating for more poc or woman having storyline or air time. And if the excuse is well every POC has to lace Omegas boots first then go tell guys like Kingston to stay off tv.


----------



## Tobiyama

I think you are wrong Jasmine. I think Swole was one of the worst wrestlers in the female division. I think AEW attempted to push her because they thought she had some personality and a character.


----------



## Thomazbr

CenaBoy4Life said:


> People are so wrapped up in swoles abilitiy and just wanting to bash her as a angry black woman.
> 
> When she is advocating for more poc or woman having storyline or air time. And if the excuse is well every POC has to lace Omegas boots first then go tell guys like Kingston to stay off tv.


Kingston wills blood feuds out of thin air and is part of arguably the best matches of the last two PPVs tbh.


----------



## Upstart474

Fearless Viper said:


> So this is the beginning of the cracks in the we're the happiest locker room in history facade. Should be fun to watch.


When people get released, you will get the real person. I think Ivelisse also said some negative about AEW. All promotions have scandals so I wonder how is Tony Khan handles it.


----------



## validreasoning

Fuck me Khan has zero self awareness. Why in the holy fuck would you tweet that.

If Vince did that lol


----------



## JasmineAEW

Tobiyama said:


> I think you are wrong Jasmine. I think Swole was one of the worst wrestlers in the female division. I think AEW attempted to push her because they thought she had some personality and a character.


Oh, I know I could be wrong. I‘m just expressing my own opinion. 

In any event, best wishes to Swole. If her health allows it, I hope she finds success at whatever wrestling promotion(s) she winds up.

I feel sorry for her, in a way. It must be hard to go through life with that kind of chip on her shoulder.


----------



## validreasoning

Klitschko said:


> Lol at comparing Swole to Baker. Cmon now lol.


They are both terrible. Bakers is friends with the Rhodes and has a nice little catchphrase which is the reason for her push.


RoganJosh said:


> Lol at that pip squeak lio rush piping up. Sack his arse. Is he on a contract?
> 
> Why did Starks delete his account?
> 
> Nobody will be giving Swole a job after this, playing the race card just because she cant handle the fact that she's a shit wrestler. There is plenty of representation on AEW telly. Also I don't want to see a minority champion just to pander to the BLM movement. The champ has to be good enough to carry the title and I don't know if there is anyone in AEW who is a minority who is good enough to be champ. Look at Big E as champ how's that working out for the ratings? He's bland as fuck as was Kofi but it's obvious WWE are just pandering to BLM.


The fuck you on about.

Big E is champion because New Day are the biggest money generating tag team of past decade and they are trying them out as singles maineventer. But like NAO they better in a group than singles. 

Nothing to do with BLM or any of that stuff. You really think a hardcore conservative family like the McMahons are pandering to BLM lol.


----------



## RapShepard

Two Sheds said:


> Swole was allowed to suck on TV and not grow.


Not nearly as much as Britt. And that's the point typically being made.


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> Not nearly as much as Britt. And that's the point typically being made.


How much time should one be given when one is universally panned? Britt failed as a face and got over at her first attempt to be a heel. Swole sucked every single minute she was ever on TV.


----------



## La Parka

Tony Khan gotta get off twitter.

This went south very quickly.


Prosper said:


> 20 pages in like 2 hours lol happy new years people I’ll respond at dawn when I’m sober


it would be much more entertaining if you responded drunk.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!




----------



## Lady Eastwood

I don’t understand why diversity is being brought in to this, other than trying real hard to get sympathy where none is needed. She’s really grasping….sounds more like she’s using it as an excuse as to why she failed. I’m sure it probably had nothing to do with anything other than she sucks.


----------



## RapShepard

Two Sheds said:


> How much time should one be given when one is universally panned? Britt failed as a face and got over at her first attempt to be a heel. Swole sucked every single minute she was ever on TV.


Listen I'm not saying Big Swole is some huge star that was lost to time if she was given a chance. 

My point is if folk are asking for diversity the talent argument is disingenuous from a company standpoint when non talented or limited talented folk have been given time to grow and improve in prime position.


----------



## One Shed

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


>


Since anyone taking offence to anything seems to matter now, this gif offends me. Both the original gifs of Homer backing into the bushes and Abraham walking into the Berlesk club, seeing Bart, and walking out are classics. Zero reason to make this.


----------



## Rookie of the Year

RapShepard said:


> I've never pretended Swole was good. But y'all have got to stop pretending it's simply a talent thing when minorities bring these issues up, because it pretends that talent is all that matters.


It's not a talent issue, but it's not a race issue either. It's an attractiveness issue.

Swole sucks at wrestling. Britt isn't very good. Jade is extremely green. What do Britt and Jade have in common that Swole doesn't?

Britt and Jade are super hot, so get more leeway to be on TV, suck, and gradually get better. Swole looks like a damn alien with that head of hers.

People don't want to admit that we think with our genitalia, so dance between race and talent arguments when they're very secondary things for being a star on TV. Good looking people get featured on TV more than us uggos.


----------



## stew mack

RapShepard said:


> 1. Idk how long you've been online, but I've been online since 2005 and Vince not putting thee title on a English wrestler has always been a talking point. Hell even the valid "why do they have to be the evil Englishman" thing has been a consistent talking point. Barrett and Bulldog are common cases of misused English stars.
> 
> 2. White people seeing other white people point doesn't really make any sense when discussing representation for minorities. White people in the UK and US are represented heavily in the media and entertainment, because they're the majority group. Okay fair. But other groups do exist, so it's weird when white people get so confused on why non-white people might want representation.
> 
> 3. It's also weird when folk use the "oh you see there's not more representation because they're not talented enough". Because then it just glosses over all the shitty majority folk that are allowed to exist. Again Britt Baker was actively shitty and was put on TV and allowed to grow.
> 
> 4. Yeah shit like rap and basketball are predominantly black, yet your whole argument falls apart when you have to acknowledge that the white talent that pop off in these things flourish even more because the majority white America likes to be able to relate.
> 
> 5. Other minorites should be fighting their own battles. Like the way Asian talent is used in WWE and AEW I'd be annoyed. The WWE's insistence that every masked luchador needs to be the next Mysterio would annoy me if I was Hispanic.


thing that irks me about 5 is how that doesnt seem to go both ways. like asians and hispanics are expected to help out in the black effort by some i feel.


----------



## bozojeff

Exactly. Her eyes are so far apart she looks like one of those bottom feeding rays with eyes on the either side of her face lol. It ain't because you black Lil Swole... It's because you're unattractive asf and can't wrestle... And have zero fans lol


----------



## TheDraw

LifeInCattleClass said:


> _ I know fans of the company don't take criticism well sometimes_



This speaks volumes. I'm sure this cut deep and had a many in the AEW reddit in a frenzy.


----------



## RoganJosh

Twitter is ripping Swole to shreds. Same with the comments sections on WINC.


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> Listen I'm not saying Big Swole is some huge star that was lost to time if she was given a chance.
> 
> My point is if folk are asking for diversity the talent argument is disingenuous from a company standpoint when non talented or limited talented folk have been given time to grow and improve in prime position.


Swole was/is non-talented as was given a hilarious amount of time to try and get over including beating Britt at one of their four PPVs of the year. Nothing she did got over and no ones liked anything about her matches. At some point she needs to realize the problem is her, not everyone else.


----------



## RoganJosh

bozojeff said:


> Exactly. Her eyes are so far apart she looks like one of those bottom feeding rays with eyes on the either side of her face lol. It ain't because you black Lil Swole... It's because you're unattractive asf and can't wrestle... And have zero fans lol


Damn man that's harsh but true.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Catalanotto said:


> I don’t understand why diversity is being brought in to this, other than trying real hard to get sympathy where none is needed. She’s really grasping….sounds more like she’s using it as an excuse as to why she failed. I’m sure it probably had nothing to do with anything other than she sucks.


Iirc, one of AEW's biggest selling points in the beginning was diversity and now she's using that to cause drama.


----------



## Peerless

Swole brought nothing to the table. She was arguably the least talented member on the roster. She couldn't wrestle, she couldn't talk, her character work was shit, and at the very least you can't even make an argument that she's nice to look at. She's a 0/10 on the wrestler scale. Shit look, shit wrestler, shit promos. Her being white wouldn't have changed a thing.


----------



## RapShepard

Rookie of the Year said:


> It's not a talent issue, but it's not a race issue either. It's an attractiveness issue.
> 
> Swole sucks at wrestling. Britt isn't very good. Jade is extremely green. What do Britt and Jade have in common that Swole doesn't?
> 
> Britt and Jade are super hot, so get more leeway to be on TV, suck, and gradually get better. Swole looks like a damn alien with that head of hers.
> 
> People don't want to admit that we think with our genitalia, so dance between race and talent arguments when they're very secondary things for being a star on TV. Good looking people get featured on TV more than us uggos.


In the case of Swole I can concede attractiveness could be the issue given her issue elsewhere. But I can respect you acknowledge sometimes shit beyond just skills matter.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Khan should never respond to this shit especially on twitter. Nothing good comes out from that cesspool.


----------



## RapShepard

stew mack said:


> thing that irks me about 5 is how that doesnt seem to go both ways. like asians and hispanics are expected to help out in the black effort by some i feel.


Oh yeah thats definitely unfair bull shit that happens.


----------



## Hayabusasc

Wow things do really kick off. Swole has got more reaction in this interview than she ever managed in the wrestling ring.

She was awful and rightfully no longer has a contract regardless of whether she jumped or was pushed.

Lio Rush should be fired. This is the same berk that was making fun of WWE releases a few years ago if I remember correctly.


----------



## Broken Bone

LifeInCattleClass said:


> on diversity - IMO (but i’m white, what do i know) - they’ve done a great job organically making their diverse stars ‘must-see’ - and didn’t force anybody down the fans throat just for ’diversity points’ - Hobbs, Dante, Lio, Shida, Jade, Moriarty is all must see for me at the moment as a result


Except for Jade. There is basically no black wrestlers that are treated like a threat. The best example is; look at how Hobbs gets book to lose most of the time and Wardlow (same size approx.) Is always book and refer to as a future world champion. Black wrestlers are represented once in awhile and Team Taz basically always get short pre-recorded promos and their rivalries appears only every two weeks. 

If we take a look at the "pillars" of AEW. Where is exactly is the representation in there? They keep saying "give it time". Why? Ethan Page is being push with TNT title matches while Scorpio Sky is reduced to being his lackey basically. Hook is the only Team Taz member being pushed and the other two barely get any matches or time regularly. Jay Lethal got buried while he has more championship reigns than 90% of AEW's rosters.



Erik. said:


> It does feel like people take the word diversity and only apply it to one race. Riho, Nyla Rose, Shida were all womens champions, Cargill could now potentially be TBS champion, despite not being ready. - the Lucha Bros are tag team champions, Miro was TNT Champion. Scorpio Sky first Tag Champion etc.


Why exactly does Jade Cargill did not get a Women's Title match like the others though? She is undefeated and somehow it's like the ranking does not apply here. How come with the amount of Black Wrestlers, we only ever had one black champion and it only really happened because Christopher Daniels was injured.




Erik. said:


> Big Swole wasn't good enough.


She wasn't good enough or she didn't get the chance to appear on TV? Women's Wrestling in AEW is barely displayed with 1 Match every show. 


$Dolladrew$ said:


> The womans division wasnt good enough to be on tv period.....like you had a few girls who could work but the majority were sub par. Absolutely NO REASON for them to get time over the bigger stars or men who could actually wrestle.


I'm sorry but if they have time to put 2.0 that nobody cares about on TV. They should have time for the Women.


----------



## Broken Bone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376That is the guy that people are defending.


----------



## DUD

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Respect to Lio Rush for actually standing up to Tony Khan because all the others in the locker room absolutely don't have the balls to do it, What Khan said was out of line was it true? Probably, but when you're in a high position like he is you don't go tweeting stuff like that, ever. This is the same guy who regularly gets in arguments on Twitter with his own players in Jacksonville, as well as being hated for the most part by Fulham and Jacksonville fans, AEW fans are the only ones who actually like Tony.
> 
> Tony ain't got the maturity level of an owner, take away his Twitter account for the love of God, focus on your business and not feeling the need to spew useless garbage on Twitter.


The phase "Just Shut Up & Wrestle" has never been more fitting.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Broken Bone said:


> Except for Jade. There is basically no black wrestlers that are treated like a threat. The best example is; look at how Hobbs gets book to lose most of the time and Wardlow (same size approx.) Is always book and refer to as a future world champion. Black wrestlers are represented once in awhile and Team Taz basically always get short pre-recorded promos and their rivalries appears only every two weeks.
> 
> If we take a look at the "pillars" of AEW. Where is exactly is the representation in there? They keep saying "give it time". Why? Ethan Page is being push with TNT title matches while Scorpio Sky is reduced to being his lackey basically. Hook is the only Team Taz member being pushed and the other two barely get any matches or time regularly. Jay Lethal got buried while he has more championship reigns than 90% of AEW's rosters.
> 
> 
> Why exactly does Jade Cargill did not get a Women's Title match like the others though? She is undefeated and somehow it's like the ranking does not apply here. How come with the amount of Black Wrestlers, we only ever had one black champion and it only really happened because Christopher Daniels was injured.
> 
> 
> 
> She wasn't good enough or she didn't get the chance to appear on TV? Women's Wrestling in AEW is barely displayed with 1 Match every show.
> 
> I'm sorry but if they have time to put 2.0 that nobody cares about on TV. They should have time for the Women.


2.o can wrestle where most if the woman couldn't or still can't .....pretty simple.


----------



## DUD

Thomazbr said:


> I bet Tony tweeted this shit and turned off the cellphone for the day.


Head first in cocaine I imagine.



AthleticGirth said:


> What makes you draw this conclusion ? Especially considering how well Fulham are doing.


Fulham were an established Premier League club for 10+ years before he got involved. Now they yo-yo between the Premier League and Championship largely because Tony Khan gets interested again when they're in the Premier League, signs an entire new squad, and fucks everything up. Every Fulham fan I speak too thinks he's a dork.


----------



## Sbatenney

Broken Bone said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376That is the guy that people are defending.
> View attachment 114163


I don't get that and also some AEW fanboys are so cringe, they were acting like getting Big Swole was awesome because she was great and the WWE should have signed her when she first signed AEW and now she's shit because Tony Khan said it. Think how twitter and the IWC would meltdown if Vince, Stephanie or any management in the WWE came out and claimed someone "wasn't good enough" for their company.


----------



## Broken Bone

$Dolladrew$ said:


> 2.o can wrestle where most if the woman couldn't or still can't .....pretty simple.


They botch most of the time and those guys have zero charisma whatsoever. People didn't like D.M.D at first and they gave her the opportunity and it worked. How are the women's supposed to show that they can wrestle when they aren't even given any opportunities? Diamante is a great example. There usually are only one female rivalry and it's always the same rivalry about championship and nothing out of creativity. Shida and Deep basically get TV time once a month when people forget they are even feuding. (Btw both are more talented in every sense than the two cardboards boxes of 2.0)


----------



## Fearless Viper

Sbatenney said:


> I don't get that and also some AEW fanboys are so cringe, they were acting like getting Big Swole was awesome because she was great and the WWE should have signed her when she first signed AEW and now she's shit because Tony Khan said it. Think how twitter and the IWC would meltdown if Vince, Stephanie or any management in the WWE came out and claimed someone "wasn't good enough" for their company.


Remember when Vince said that Cesaro doesn't have 'it' probably because he's Swedish or something?


----------



## Sbatenney

Fearless Viper said:


> Remember when Vince said that Cesaro doesn't have 'it' probably because he's Swedish or something?


He actually never said that, he said he didn't think Cesaro is a big draw which is different from saying someone isn't a good wrestler but I do get your point, no-one was defending him and everyone was saying how it was a terrible thing Vince said yet Tony gets defended for basically calling someone a shit wrestler even after calling her a great wrestler earlier in the year.


----------



## Garty

Sbatenney said:


> I don't get that and also some AEW fanboys are so cringe, they were acting like getting Big Swole was awesome because she was great and the WWE should have signed her when she first signed AEW and now she's shit because Tony Khan said it. Think how twitter and the IWC would meltdown if Vince, Stephanie or any management in the WWE came out and claimed someone "wasn't good enough" for their company.


Bret screwed Bret. Owen Hart was at fault for his own death. Warrior was full of steroids, an idiot and very demanding. CM Punk was a headache to deal with.

All things said by WWE.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Now Hobbs is being dragged


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477147743025975296
at some point, you always have to wonder if the dissenting voices really care about the issue displayed, or if they are just ‘Dub bad’ people


----------



## rbl85

I don't see any issue in what TK said....

I mean she basically said that they didn't pushed her because she was black and he answered that it was because she wasn't a good enough worker.

One made it about race and the other made it about work quality, i let you choose which one is better.


----------



## DUD

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Now Hobbs is being dragged
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477147743025975296
> at some point, you always have to wonder if the dissenting voices really care about the issue displayed, or if they are just ‘Dub bad’ people


It's the latter. Twitter is full of gorms and losers.

The last sentence from Will Hobbs is the best thing anybody has said on the issue. If you have a problem with someone pick up the phone.


----------



## RogueSlayer

AEW stands for All Elite White's, let's not forget when that bitch Amanda Huber and Jericho ganged up on Kalisto for spelling Brody Lee's name wrong and now you got this shitshow of a Tweet by Tony Con lol.

I'm not surprised to see Britt Baker retweet Con man's tweet Britt is a talentless company kiss ass, Baker is a bang average wrestler at best and hardly better than Swole was but the reason why Baker is in a main event role in the company is because she's white and she sucks up to Con man.


----------



## Geert Wilders

RogueSlayer said:


> Lol at Britt Baker retweeting Tony Con's tweet
> 
> The racist bitch showing her true colours to start the year
> 
> AEW stands for All Elite White's, let's not forget when that bitch Amanda Huber and Jericho ganged up on Kalisto for spelling Brody Lee's name wrong and you got this shitshow of a Tweet by Tony Con lol.


apparently speaking or against critiquing someone who’s of ethnic minority = racist

Woke culture is really toxic and ironic sometimes. I mean look at this post I’ve responded to.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

AEW drones when Big Swole says that the Dub might be bad:


----------



## rbl85

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> AEW drones when Big Swole says that the Dub might be bad:
> 
> View attachment 114167


She have all the rights to critic AEW but that also mean that she also can receive critics


----------



## duane.crisp

Swole doesn't have the look, skills, promo, etc to be successful she should've kept her mouth shut. She sucks and thank God she is gone


----------



## Broken Bone

Garty said:


> Bret screwed Bret. Owen Hart was at fault for his own death. Warrior was full of steroids, an idiot and very demanding. CM Punk was a headache to deal with.
> 
> All things said by WWE.


Nobody said WWE didn't do anything wrong. Just that AEW tends to act all mighty about themselves when in reality, they are both the same. For example, when some stuff comes out of AEW that are negative, people like you will bring out things that WWE did. We all know WWE did and still do lots of screwed up stuff but so does AEW. Acknowledge it, address the problems to at least make the Wrestling industry become less and less of a circus shitshow. 

Just a general wrestling fan's opinion.


----------



## Broken Bone

duane.crisp said:


> Swole doesn't have the look, skills, promo, etc to be successful she should've kept her mouth shut. She sucks and thank God she is gone


She's addressing issues beyond wrestling. It doesn't matter if she sucks or not. It's about making the industry more open to everyone and be represented whoever you might be.


----------



## zodiacF5

I thought AEW the best place for Wrestler unlike The 'Evil' WWE. 

Now AEW neckbeards will say Big Swole sucks lol


----------



## rbl85

Broken Bone said:


> She's addressing issues beyond wrestling. It doesn't matter if she sucks or not. It's about making the industry more open to everyone and be represented whoever you might be.


She's addressing those isssues because she don't want to talk about why she wasn't pushed


----------



## rbl85

zodiacF5 said:


> I thought AEW the best place for Wrestler unlike The 'Evil' WWE.
> 
> *Now AEW neckbeards will say Big Swole sucks lol*


95% of the forum was saying that months and months ago.


----------



## Tell it like it is

He shouldn't apologize. Don't accuse someone of being racist if you don't want to be called out on your shit. Why is it okay for swole to say that about Tony and AEW but not okay for him to say that she sucks at wrestling? Seems like a double standard. I still think he should have said nothing.


----------



## Buhalovski

Big Swole is a fucking peace of shit with her wannabe wokeism. 

But TK is also a clown. You have a manlet who was a jobber his entire life tweeting him to apologize? Imagine being lowcard employee telling your boss to fucking apologize. If that was Vince Lio Rush would be fired.


----------



## Mindy_Macready

What happen to Hikaru Shida after losing her title to Britt? Former Aew champion is force to go back to Dark.


----------



## bdon

NathanMayberry said:


> Wow… go Swole.
> 
> 
> I expect AEW fans are gonna hate her and every one else that leaves and says similar things in 2022
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So, you thought her in a high profile feud with Britt was enjoyable and worthy of TV time?

Fuck that bullshit. If Jade Cargill were better, she’d be champ. If Swole were more interesting, she’d have had the audience bragging about her feud with Britt Baker, which certainly got more goddamn air and storytelling time than Britt vs Rosa, so why was Rosa and Britt more well received?

I can’t stand pulling the race card over everything. It does a disservice to actual issues.


----------



## ProjectGargano

zodiacF5 said:


> I thought AEW the best place for Wrestler unlike The 'Evil' WWE.
> 
> Now AEW neckbeards will say Big Swole sucks lol


Doesn't she? She was the most boring wrestler on AEW


----------



## Kalashnikov

zodiacF5 said:


> Now AEW neckbeards will say Big Swole sucks lol


She does indeed suck, and she always has.


----------



## bdon

Thomazbr said:


> View attachment 114158


Aaaaand there you have it: she’s mad, because it wasn’t HER acting as the representation of the black community.

Cry me a fucking river and work on your craft.


----------



## Tell it like it is

I'm guessing what Shida said shouldn't matter because she isn't black. Ain't that right?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477118932356145152


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> How much TV time and effort was put into 2019 and 2020 Britt until she got good
> 
> We're not about to play this game like she was just awesome from the get go and that her growth had nothing to do with her getting the most focus of all the women.


You’re wrong. The Jericho Cruise was literally 2 months into television when she cut the awesome promo mocking Schiavone for working at Starbucks recently.

Swole had plenty of time working opposite Britt Baker and failed to capture the audience’s interest.


----------



## Cooper09

Good on Tony for calling that shit out. Way to many people of colour like to throw out the race card in order to play the victim and to get what they want. About time people start fighting back against this bullshit. She was shit and everyone knows it.


----------



## DUD

Tell it like it is said:


> I'm guessing what Shida said shouldn't matter because she isn't black. Ain't that right?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477118932356145152


I love the comments from people who have been defending Big Swole suggesting Hikaru Shida doesn't understand Tony Khan's tweets because she's Japanese.


----------



## DUD

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477169377627701250
Many people here have correctly suggested the same thing.

Interesting Nyla has got off offending disabled people scott free when TK used to hand out education classes for historical comments.


----------



## DaSlacker

History repeating itself. 

In the mid 1980's Vince tried to be one of the boys. The stories of him hanging out, drinking and doing coke in bars with the roster. Hart Foundation performing their finishing move on him. Having a bloated roster of 80+ wrestlers by 1986. He sooned wised up. 

Tony will soon realise a lot of his performers aren't worth the money. That they have egos and attitude issues and will spin shit their way the minute you stop crowdfunding them. 

He should fire Lio to show it's cold out there in the real world.


----------



## Gibbs0102

RapShepard said:


> The issue is why are non-elite white talent like Britt, Hook, Anna Jay, The Bunny, and Penelope Ford are allowed to grow and find a groove on TV by those in power, but green non-white talent is hidden away mostly on YouTube.
> 
> Like I know you didn't mean anything by it, but think about it. If the argument for Swole not being on TV is she isn't an elite female wrestler I wouldn't protest that. But on the same token should Anna Jay, Bunny, Penelope, and 2019 early 2020 Britt have been on TV either [emoji2379]. Should not elite Hook be on getting highlighted Rampage matches?


Anthony agogo green as shit had a big match with Cody would have been featured more if not for his injury

Dante Martin still very green his match with mjf showed that but getting a big push at the minute

powerhouse hobbs has been featured looks like he has a decent future

jade the greenest out of anyone has had some big matches and will probably be the first tbs womens champ but swoles comments will over shadow this, make it look like they have just given her the title to look more diverse.

but yeh black purple don’t get a chance to grow at all do they swole wasn’t good enough end of


----------



## Broken Bone

rbl85 said:


> She's addressing those isssues because she don't want to talk about why she wasn't pushed


I doubt that. Even if it's true, she did make some good points though. Tony Khan said himself that AEW would be a company built on diversity ( not his exact words but some thing along those lines). Can say that I see that diversity at all. The Lucha Bros are the only diversity that got a little TV time and even so, they barely have any rivalry or character progression whatsoever. Santana & Ortiz or way more talented in every sense than FTR or 2.0 and yet, they get buried every time they are on TV. 

AEW Dark on YouTube is always about a non-white jobber getting beaten up by a white guy. They aren't building any talents that are not white except 2 or 3. Female Wrestlers are never on TV except for 1 match a week or 2 if they feel generous. 3 hours of wrestling and they are telling us that they have a talented women roster? Where is it? Because clearly they are hiding them in the back.


----------



## Upstart474

Tony Khan posts a very bad tweet after AEW is called out for lack of diversity


Garbage like this from Tony Khan doesn’t bode well for the future of AEW.




www.cagesideseats.com





"With this extremely embarrassing response, Khan once again demonstrates that he is some combination of too sensitive, immature, ignorant, impulsive, ego-driven, or self-centered to handle criticism. Last month he got super defensive over a harmless question and gave the most tone deaf answer possible about women’s wrestling. Now here he is telling a Black woman that she’s wrong in how she feels about diversity, implying her wrestling sucks, and then plugging tonight’s episode of _Rampage_."


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Broken Bone said:


> I doubt that. Even if it's true, she did make some good points though. Tony Khan said himself that AEW would be a company built on diversity ( not his exact words but some thing along those lines). Can say that I see that diversity at all. The Lucha Bros are the only diversity that got a little TV time and even so, they barely have any rivalry or character progression whatsoever. Santana & Ortiz or way more talented in every sense than FTR or 2.0 and yet, they get buried every time they are on TV.
> 
> AEW Dark on YouTube is always about a non-white jobber getting beaten up by a white guy. They aren't building any talents that are not white except 2 or 3. Female Wrestlers are never on TV except for 1 match a week or 2 if they feel generous. 3 hours of wrestling and they are telling us that they have a talented women roster? Where is it? Because clearly they are hiding them in the back.


I’m sorry, if you cannot see the diversity then nobody can help you

you’re missing The Acclaimed for instance, and Dante, and Hobbs, and Private Party. You’re missing Jade and Red Velvet and Shida and Riho and Nyla

and these are quick off the top of my head names getting good tv time

there’s many more name - just go to the AEW roster page and look for yourself


----------



## RoganJosh

Swole and Rush commiting career suicide.


----------



## Broken Bone

Gibbs0102 said:


> Anthony agogo green as shit had a big match with Cody would have been featured more if not for his injury
> 
> Dante Martin still very green his match with mjf showed that but getting a big push at the minute


Hook is green and yet he's getting pushed to the moon. Dante Martin and Jungle Boy are basically two talented wrestlers that have zero personality and yet one is getting pushed and labeled a pillar.

Being in a feud with Team Taz is not a push. Team Taz literally are poorly booked and doesn't appear as a decent threat.



Chadwixx said:


> People dont want to see a ghetto diva, we have that on smackdown.


Wtf are you tlon about? What do you mean by Ghetto?


----------



## Broken Bone

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m sorry, if you cannot see the diversity then nobody can help you
> 
> you’re missing The Acclaimed for instance, and Dante, and Hobbs, and Private Party. You’re missing Jade and Red Velvet and Shida and Riho and Nyla
> 
> and these are quick off the top of my head names getting good tv time
> 
> there’s many more name - just go to the AEW roster page and look for yourself


Those guys gets burried on a weekly basis. Jade is the only one being booked strong and then again, she is undefeated and never had a women's world title match. 

It's how they are used. None of them are being booked to look serious. They all are portrayed as stereotypes joke characters. 

None of them are pillars and Dante Martin got a decent pop against Kenny Omega before they made him disappear for at least two months.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Broken Bone said:


> Those guys gets burried on a weekly basis. Jade is the only one being booked strong and then again, she is undefeated and never had a women's world title match.
> 
> It's how they are used. None of them are being booked to look serious. They all are portrayed as stereotypes joke characters.
> 
> None of them are pillars and Dante Martin got a decent pop against Kenny Omega before they made him disappear for at least two months.


whaat? this is hyperbole

Acclaimed is literally number 2 in the tag rankings (most likely in for a title shot soon)

Dante has been featured heavily in stories / Jade has been booked strong


----------



## Gn1212

Btw, the diversity problem in AEW in the upper card is a thing but that's not down to AEW not pushing non-white wrestlers but moreso AEW not having good enough non-white wrestlers to put in that spot.
This is why many of us have suggested AEW should sign Lethal(signed now), Gresham, Keith, etc.

What Swole is doing here is indirectly using the race card to excuse why she wasn't a big deal in AEW. Using the tokenism mentality of WWE as an example yet at the same time complaining about disingenuity is a bit pathetic.


----------



## Gibbs0102

Broken Bone said:


> Hook is green and yet he's getting pushed to the moon. Dante Martin and Jungle Boy are basically two talented wrestlers that have zero personality and yet one is getting pushed and labeled a pillar.
> 
> Being in a feud with Team Taz is not a push. Team Taz literally are poorly booked and doesn't appear as a decent threat.
> 
> 
> Wtf are you tlon about? What do you mean by Ghetto?
> View attachment 114170


hook is getting pushed to the moon he has had two matches for fuck sake 🤣 he is getting big reactions so will probably get a big push. But let’s see how long his reactions will last.

he made a point only white people get to grow on tv I showed it was nonsense with examples of some black wrestlers getting to grow on tv.


----------



## Broken Bone

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Acclaimed is literally number 2 in the tag rankings (most likely in for a title shot soon)


How is that possible? They literally lose most of their matches on TV. Is Tony Khan changing the rankings to try and prove that he isn't portraying diversity? 




LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dante has been featured heavily in stories / Jade has been booked strong


Dante featured in stories for two months or one month since Team Taz only appear every two weeks if they are lucky. Dante should have won against MJF. MJF doesn't need the ring, he already is getting pushed to the moon. How was Dante not features on Wednesday after he got screwed by Team Taz? Oh yeah, it was all to push Hook over Dante. 

I was a huge fan of AEW but the lack of diversity that I have been waiting for never came to fruition. 3 years and zero improvement on that front.


----------



## Broken Bone

Chadwixx said:


> Le' Bum. You found the only drama queen bigger than Swole


How about you reply about that little statement you said instead of that gif?


----------



## Tell em' Hawk!

Never got the hype for Big Swole. That started with her name . Called Big Swole and never executed a power move. Always looked sloppy and can’t say I ever enjoyed a match she was in. Despite what I think , if you look on cagematch, she had a really good win/loss record. Winning a strong majority of her matches on Dynamite and Dark, and even then if she was in a tag match, she wasn’t taking the fall. Any significant losses were in Championship matches or major feuds. That said, she even got the win in a blow off to what actually was Britt Bakers big rise. The bottom line is that after 6 years as a wrestler, she doesn’t stand out in a wrestling company on national television. Jade Cargill, Shida, Nyla , even the Bunny and Tay have something that can capture your attention whether it’s charisma (Britt & Tay) , Believable striking and workrate (Shida, Deeb, Rosa)or even looking like an absolute physical specimen or being attractive (Jade, Bunny and Ford) and to being completely different and unique to the rest of the roster (Nyla) , I think it’s safe to say Swole wouldn’t even be mentioned in the same skill bracket as any of the above? 

I am a bit sceptical of the timing of all this seeing as we could potentially be seeing Jade win the TBS belt on Wednesday and after seeing Swole’s snarky tweet about her , it could now mean that AEW are in a catch 22 position based on Swoles whole diversity speech. If Jade wins, it could be said that it’s only cos she’s black. If Ruby wins, it adds fuel to the race fire as she’s beaten a black girl who has a lot of upside .
Not that my opinion matters whatsoever to any of this but I see all of this as Swole coming across as an entitled, bitter , ex employee , who if was as good as she makes out, would be the top draw for a major company anywhere in the states. Guess what, she isn’t and she never will be.


----------



## Sad Panda

Broken Bone said:


> Hook is green and yet he's getting pushed to the moon. Dante Martin and Jungle Boy are basically two talented wrestlers that have zero personality and yet one is getting pushed and labeled a pillar.
> 
> Being in a feud with Team Taz is not a push. Team Taz literally are poorly booked and doesn't appear as a decent threat.


I’m sure if Dante Martin sold as many t-shirts or spiked the viewership as Hook he’d be pushed to the moon too.

And Jungle Boy is a much more refined wrestler than Dante Martin. Martin while supremely talented and incredibly athletic is kind of a one trick pony at this stage of his development, but he’s gotten major TV time!

Hobbs needs to be pushed, no doubt about that.

Swole using her skin color as a crutch on why she’s inferior is sad, but it will probably garner enough attention to get her a few minutes to make some money. My question is, why the hate on Jade? Shouldn’t she be celebrating the idea of a young black woman in the finals? Or again, maybe she’s just bitter because she’s just not that good, and race is just the move on the chess board to get some eyes on her.


----------



## Geert Wilders

LifeInCattleClass said:


> whaat? this is hyperbole
> 
> Acclaimed is literally number 2 in the tag rankings (most likely in for a title shot soon)
> 
> Dante has been featured heavily in stories / Jade has been booked strong


The Acclaimed should win the titles - even if a transitional win - I’m enjoying their run. They could turn down some of the sus behaviour - I got shades of Orlando Jordan squirting cum on himself when they rubbed oil into each other.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Broken Bone said:


> How is that possible? They literally lose most of their matches on TV. Is Tony Khan changing the rankings to try and prove that he isn't portraying diversity?
> 
> 
> 
> Dante featured in stories for two months or one month since Team Taz only appear every two weeks if they are lucky. Dante should have won against MJF. MJF doesn't need the ring, he already is getting pushed to the moon. How was Dante not features on Wednesday after he got screwed by Team Taz? Oh yeah, it was all to push Hook over Dante.
> 
> I was a huge fan of AEW but the lack of diversity that I have been waiting for never came to fruition. 3 years and zero improvement on that front.


You are omitting the fact that basically EVERYBODY is only appearing once every two weeks

the only person who can claim otherwise is the super-booked Darby Allin - who has 31 tv / ppv matches in 2021

Dante should not have beaten MJF - firstly, MJF is in upper card program with Punk, and the added to the Dante / Team Taz story with Starks' interference - thereby securing Dante more tv time in 2022

you can't just keep on saying 'lack of diversity' like that is a real thing - I am compiling the 2021 TV / PPV stats now - so I am pouring through the roster. There is a lot of diverse talent here man

edit> in fact, so far - the only one who can feel hard done by is Hobbs - his win record was not great in 2021 and he deserves more / but even so he was put in high profile losses


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

out of interest sake - these people have been featured roughly the same amount of time on TV / PPVs in 2021










So, you have Nyla and Dante heavily featured, but with a low W/L record - but then you have Jade heavily featured with a great W/L

but you also have Bunny / Penelope heavily featured with a terrible W / L

but let it sink in - Dante Martin in his rookie year basically, was as much on TV as Chris Jericho, Pac and Hangman in terms of matches


----------



## Jnewt

rbl85 said:


> 95% of the forum was saying that months and months ago.


I think you're full of shit. Where is this 5% of the forum that was big swole fans?


----------



## Sad Panda

zodiacF5 said:


> I thought AEW the best place for Wrestler unlike The 'Evil' WWE.
> 
> Now AEW neckbeards will say Big Swole sucks lol


There’s always going to be a couple disgruntled employees. People are people. It’s impossible to make everyone happy


----------



## DRose1994

Sad Panda said:


> There’s always going to be a couple disgruntled employees. People are people. It’s impossible to make everyone happy


And for the record, Big Swole was always awful. As an in ring worker she was bad, her mannerisms and gesturing were over the top and awkward, sounded fake when she spoke. You could get away with putting her on TV during the pandemic, but as more stars came in — both men and women — that were obviously better and more talented, why would they need her on TV (or at all)?

Fans and wrestling personalities have been calling for this for awhile: the roster is getting too bloated and you have to let people at that bottom end go.


----------



## I am Groot

Swole burning bridges while looking like a total fool


----------



## I am Groot

Diversity ha ha she says but a Jewish Man and Black Woman are the most protected guys on their roster.


----------



## Sad Panda

I am Groot said:


> Diversity ha ha she says but a Jewish Man and Black Woman are the most protected guys on their roster.


“Diversity” is black men and women..apparently no other race or cultures factor into the equation.

Jade doesn’t count because it should be “Big Swole” in that spot.

She’s bitter and tapping into race brings about very swift and often harsh judgments. Just look at Twitter. Sean Dean being called an Uncle Tom, those that back Tony Khan are sheep were as Swole and Rush are “courageous”. The fuck outta here.


----------



## zkorejo

Talent always rises to the top. It's always about being creative and not so much being talkative. Darby Allin is a good example of that. 

Swole was in AEW, she probably knows more than any of us. But I always felt Swole thought alot more highly of herself than what she actually contributed.

"STRUCTURE" and "Diversity" sounds like a copout from admitting that she got her chances and couldn't capitalize on them. She had a long feud with Britt Baker when she was starting to be red hot and nobody cared for Swole in that feud. How's that anyone else's fault?

She wants writers because she isn't creative enough? No problem, she should try out with WWE. There are options for wrestlers out there. 

Diversity for the sake of diversity. A black, brown, asian champion just for the sake of diversity is nonsense. The best wrestler, the most over wrestler, the most talented wrestler should be at the top of the food chain. Regardless of the skin color.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> You’re wrong. The Jericho Cruise was literally 2 months into television when she cut the awesome promo mocking Schiavone for working at Starbucks recently.
> 
> Swole had plenty of time working opposite Britt Baker and failed to capture the audience’s interest.


AEW first episode was October 2nd 2019 the Jericho cruise was January 20th 2020. That's 4th over 4th months


Gibbs0102 said:


> Anthony agogo green as shit had a big match with Cody would have been featured more if not for his injury
> 
> Dante Martin still very green his match with mjf showed that but getting a big push at the minute
> 
> powerhouse hobbs has been featured looks like he has a decent future
> 
> jade the greenest out of anyone has had some big matches and will probably be the first tbs womens champ but swoles comments will over shadow this, make it look like they have just given her the title to look more diverse.
> 
> but yeh black purple don’t get a chance to grow at all do they swole wasn’t good enough end of


Notice the 3 males by and large have won fuck all of note when they're actually on TV. Yes backing up the diversity Tony claimed they'd have requires more than just placing folk on TV.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m sorry, if you cannot see the diversity then nobody can help you
> 
> you’re missing The Acclaimed for instance, and Dante, and Hobbs, and Private Party. You’re missing Jade and Red Velvet and Shida and Riho and Nyla
> 
> and these are quick off the top of my head names getting good tv time
> 
> there’s many more name - just go to the AEW roster page and look for yourself


How many of them besides Jade are actually presented and shown to be winning formidable talent on TV. 

"They have plenty of black talent, they just aren't scripted to look good on TV, is hardly an argument for well done diversity"


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> out of interest sake - these people have been featured roughly the same amount of time on TV / PPVs in 2021
> 
> View attachment 114172
> 
> 
> So, you have Nyla and Dante heavily featured, but with a low W/L record - but then you have Jade heavily featured with a great W/L
> 
> but you also have Bunny / Penelope heavily featured with a terrible W / L
> 
> but let it sink in - Dante Martin in his rookie year basically, was as much on TV as Chris Jericho, Pac and Hangman in terms of matches


So can you acknowledge that Dante mostly shows up on TV to lose and that Pac, Hangman, and Jericho have all missed large chunks of time do to travel restrictions, baby birthings, and having a band


----------



## Geert Wilders

RapShepard said:


> How many of them besides Jade are actually presented and shown to be winning formidable talent on TV.
> 
> "They have plenty of black talent, they just aren't scripted to look good on TV, is hardly an argument for well done diversity"


Do you think apart from Jade and Hobbs, any should be booked to look formidable? I’d argue that Acclaimed are being booked well - they get to be controversial and are on a good streak.
Do you want to see Sonny Kiss go on a winning streak?


----------



## zkorejo

RapShepard said:


> So can you acknowledge that Dante mostly shows up on TV to lose and that Pac, Hangman, and Jericho have all missed large chunks of time do to travel restrictions, baby birthings, and having a band


Are you seriously saying Pac, Hangman and Chris f'n Jericho are the same level of talent as Hobbs, Dante and Jade? Those are all green, Jade is like supergreen and can't even go 10 mins in the ring. They need time and guidance and they are all getting it. Let's not pretend like they aren't presented "well" while they are still in their learning stages.


----------



## RapShepard

Geert Wilders said:


> Do you think apart from Jade and Hobbs, any should be booked to look formidable? I’d argue that Acclaimed are being booked well - they get to be controversial and are on a good streak.
> Do you want to see Sonny Kiss go on a winning streak?


Hobbs and The Acclaimed would be much better served if they were allowed to win more and Dynamite and Rampage. Yeah on paper they have solid records, but if it's not happening on TV we know it doesn't mean much. Hell that goes into why folk laugh about the Gunn Club, on paper they should've been had a tag title shot, in reality dozens of Dark wins mean shit. It's why folk were saying Wardlow needed to have more matches on TV.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> So can you acknowledge that Dante mostly shows up on TV to lose and that Pac, Hangman, and Jericho have all missed large chunks of time do to travel restrictions, baby birthings, and having a band


can you acknowledge one is a rookie in his basically debut year / featured just as heavily on TV as an MJF / Jade / Miro? Also, you should not be using 'excuses' for justifying stuff - you normally hate that.

people tell me 'wins and losses' don't matter / tv time does - or do they matter now?

the kid is featured heavily and is involved in stories - he's hardly a jobber

but you know this of course

fact is - more and more I go through the stats, the more it is clear there are 10 top people and everybody else is basically booked to lose - the challenge of the people not in the top 10, is to become relevant enough with fan support to get there


----------



## I am Groot

Sad Panda said:


> “Diversity” is black men and women..apparently no other race or cultures factor into the equation.
> 
> Jade doesn’t count because it should be “Big Swole” in that spot.
> 
> She’s bitter and tapping into race brings about very swift and often harsh judgments. Just look at Twitter. Sean Dean being called an Uncle Tom, those that back Tony Khan are sheep were as Swole and Rush are “courageous”. The fuck outta here.


Lio Rush committed career suicide. Khan may not be the greatest booker but he's definitely taking care of his roster. I'm not sure where the lack of diversity is. Theres woman matches weekly that get a decent match length, plenty of non white wrestlers featured on TV. Just fuck off with that nonsense 
Some people really need life coaches to avoid destroying their credibility like Swole and Rush.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Incidentally - here are the women's stats so far for 2021










Jade being the best in combination of 'featured TV matches' and 'W/L'

the rest of the women basically booked the same - Britt, Hikaru similar

Penelope, Red Velvet, Bunny all similar

the only one who seems to have gone a bit jobber is Nyla - heavily featured with a low 2021 W / L record

and Anna & Tay is 50/50 booking


----------



## TuNePeuxPas OK

Thomazbr said:


> I'm not North American though, so I just think US race scenario is fucking insane.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> How many of them besides Jade are actually presented and shown to be winning formidable talent on TV.
> 
> "They have plenty of black talent, they just aren't scripted to look good on TV, is hardly an argument for well done diversity"


Check my stats - there is a good blend

unless Jade, Hikaru and Tay are now suddenly the 'wrong' kind of diverse?


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> can you acknowledge one is a rookie in his basically debut year / featured just as heavily on TV as an MJF / Jade / Miro? Also, you should not be using 'excuses' for justifying stuff - you normally hate that.
> 
> people tell me 'wins and losses' don't matter / tv time does - or do they matter now?
> 
> the kid is featured heavily and is involved in stories - he's hardly a jobber
> 
> but you know this of course
> 
> fact is - more and more I go through the stats, the more it is clear there are 10 top people and everybody else is basically booked to lose - the challenge of the people not in the top 10, is to become relevant enough with fan support to get there


Screen time matters. As well as the presentation in that time. For a rookie it´s important to look good, which Dante does with his jumping around, but he still needs some wins on TV to get to the next level, otherwise he´s just "the guy who jumps really good".
To clarify - Cody is at the next level, so he doesn´t need the wins in the same way Dante does, but is still presented as a bigger deal than their AEW Heavyweight champion with his special entrances and stuff.
And in WWE you have Miz who is being made a complete fool almost every time he´s on TV, but it doesn´t bury him, because he is an established star, having reality shows, appearing in main stream programs (Dancing with the stars) etc.

Does that make sense to you? I´m not sure how to explain it..


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

but here are the ladies in pure singles matches on tv and ppv











Now Britt and Jade goes above the rest

Hikaru just below them

Nyla / Tay / Penelope similar

and then Bunny / Velvet / Anna in the bottom

seems 'ok' to me TBH


----------



## RapShepard

zkorejo said:


> Are you seriously saying Pac, Hangman and Chris f'n Jericho are the same level of talent as Hobbs, Dante and Jade? Those are all green, Jade is like supergreen. They need time and guidance and they are all getting it. Let's not pretend like they aren't presented "well" while they are still in their learning stages.


This is why you should come read to comprehend if @LifeInCattleClass is throwing out numbers to say "well Dante was on TV more than Pac, Hangman, and Jericho so clearly he was pushed well". The argument shouldn't have the obvious hole that TV time was full of losing and those other guys missed tons of TV time due to Outside issues. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> can you acknowledge one is a rookie in his basically debut year / featured just as heavily on TV as an MJF / Jade / Miro? Also, you should not be using 'excuses' for justifying stuff - you normally hate that.
> 
> people tell me 'wins and losses' don't matter / tv time does - or do they matter now?
> 
> the kid is featured heavily and is involved in stories - he's hardly a jobber
> 
> but you know this of course
> 
> fact is - more and more I go through the stats, the more it is clear there are 10 top people and everybody else is basically booked to lose - the challenge of the people not in the top 10, is to become relevant enough with fan support to get there


Yeah The Elite, Moxley, Darby, Britt, MJF, and now Bryan, Cole, and Punk are the top folk agreed there. Sure Dante has got more TV time since his brother got injured. But like 2.0 prior to the Kingston wins being on TV, but always losing has it's issues as it's telling the audience you suck. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Incidentally - here are the women's stats so far for 2021
> 
> View attachment 114174
> 
> 
> Jade being the best in combination of 'featured TV matches' and 'W/L'
> 
> the rest of the women basically booked the same - Britt, Hikaru similar
> 
> Penelope, Red Velvet, Bunny all similar
> 
> the only one who seems to have gone a bit jobber is Nyla - heavily featured with a low 2021 W / L record
> 
> and Anna & Tay is 50/50 booking


This might be the best case of "the exception that proves the rule"

Again I truly don't think Tony is racist or intentionally wanted Swole or fans to feel their was a lack of diversity in successful positions. 

But if you're arguing for black diversity maybe pointing out there's only one black person in the company that has a winning TV record lol. 

Hell that chart just inadvertently shows how terrible the women's booking is and the need for restructuring there.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Screen time matters. As well as the presentation in that time. For a rookie it´s important to look good, which Dante does with his jumping around, but he still needs some wins on TV to get to the next level, otherwise he´s just "the guy who jumps really good".
> To clarify - Cody is at the next level, so he doesn´t need the wins in the same way Dante does, but is still presented as a bigger deal than their AEW Heavyweight champion with his special entrances and stuff.
> And in WWE you have Miz who is being made a complete fool almost every time he´s on TV, but it doesn´t bury him, because he is an established star, having reality shows, appearing in main stream programs (Dancing with the stars) etc.
> 
> Does that make sense to you? I´m not sure how to explain it..


of course it makes sense - but i think we all know Dante is in for a strong 2022

they laid good foundation with him / established him in 2021, geared to be a player in 2022

on 'tv time' - i don't really want to get into it - cause i can't find match lengths - BUT, one thing I think we can all agree on, is people keep harping on AEW only doing long matches

so, none of these matches were really below 8 min - except maybe Jade's


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> This is why you should come read to comprehend if @LifeInCattleClass is throwing out numbers to say "well Dante was on TV more than Pac, Hangman, and Jericho so clearly he was pushed well". The argument shouldn't have the obvious hole that TV time was full of losing and those other guys missed tons of TV time due to Outside issues.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah The Elite, Moxley, Darby, Britt, MJF, and now Bryan, Cole, and Punk are the top folk agreed there. Sure Dante has got more TV time since his brother got injured. But like 2.0 prior to the Kingston wins being on TV, but always losing has it's issues as it's telling the audience you suck.
> 
> 
> 
> This might be the best case of "the exception that proves the rule"
> 
> Again I truly don't think Tony is racist or intentionally wanted Swole or fans to feel their was a lack of diversity in successful positions.
> 
> But if you're arguing for black diversity maybe pointing out there's only one black person in the company that has a winning TV record lol.
> 
> Hell that chart just inadvertently shows how terrible the women's booking is and the need for restructuring there.


How is the women's booking terrible?

you can't give everybody wins - well, you can - but they do it in Dark / Elevation - which I am purposely ignoring

There's definitely some 'upper echelon' women getting the push - Britt, Hikaru. Jade

the rest has to fight it out for the scraps


----------



## zkorejo

RapShepard said:


> This is why you should come read to comprehend if @LifeInCattleClass is throwing out numbers to say "well Dante was on TV more than Pac, Hangman, and Jericho so clearly he was pushed well". The argument shouldn't have the obvious hole that TV time was full of losing and those other guys missed tons of TV time due to Outside issues.


They are getting tv time, Dante losing isn't that different from Darby losing all his big matches on Dynamite first year. Same for Jungleboy, same for Sammy. Getting tv time and big matches where they get to work with bigger names is a victory in itself for them. Dante needs time and experience. His last match with MJF proved that. 

Hobbs has been presented pretty damn good. Hobbs was super green when he started, see how far he has come, having good matches with the likes of Christian and Punk. 

Jade is unstoppable and she can't even do a fuckin pump kick right at times.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

@RapShepard - also, on losing and telling the audience they suck

I also disagree on this take for Dante

Here is his 2021 matches - let's see if we all recognise the trend here










Guy is paired with Sydal / loses all of his matches basically

Then gets paired with Lio, featured heavily and wins his last 5

you're only as good as your last game - and the audience remembers this win streak over anything else - and the kid is primed for 2022, only narrowly losing to MJF due to interference


----------



## Lurker V2.0

Happy New Year from AEW. This thumbnail is about as diverse as it gets


----------



## Rhetro

RapShepard said:


> You're contradicting yourself. Face Britt was rejected because she was green and not a good character. YET she was allowed to stay on TV and find her way. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because she's one of the funnest characters in wrestling.
> 
> The point is simply this idea that "oh well AEW doesn't have more diverse talent in prominent positions because they're not total packages" just doesn't hold up when a Britt has spent her entire time getting the most attention even when she was green and shitty.
> 
> 
> 
> None of this shit matters and you're smart enough to know that about dark. Dark gets at best a 3rd of the dynamite viewing audience. It's hard to grow and connect with fans when you're regulated to the show the majority of the audience doesn't watch. I can't believe you actually tried to pretend Dark shit mattered, go stand in the corner for that shit man lol.


Did you ever stop to think maybe Britt was putting in the training work behind the scenes more than anyone else and that’s what justified her staying n tv? You ever think maybe someone like Swol showed up, had no desire to improve outside of having matches and had a bad attitude?

it’s more than just swole too. Take race out of it. There is absolutly no lack of diversity in AEW. There are tons of people of colour that have been in prominent matches. But it seems the people that get pushed, put in the most work! That’s why you see them improving and getting tv time.

can you tell me swole improved her skills or character one ounce down in dark? You can’t. She didn’t put in the work and now is trying to blame the company for her own entitlements.

and here is the other thing that is argued, oh a black person wants more black people, so people of Color to them means just black people, they don’t count any other person of color When they account that in their statement. Isn’t thst the most racist and selfish thing of all? Are you worried about diversity and the definition thereof or are you just worried about yourself and using that word to try and twist things?

she’s using the words plain and simple and no one is buying it. And lio Rush calling out Tk demanding things of him on Twitter deserves a swift termination.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> How is the women's booking terrible?
> 
> you can't give everybody wins - well, you can - but they do it in Dark / Elevation - which I am purposely ignoring
> 
> There's definitely some 'upper echelon' women getting the push - Britt, Hikaru. Jade
> 
> the rest has to fight it out for the scraps


Its bad booking for the same reason people get annoyed with the 50/50 booking in WWE. How are the girls below supposed to get over and ascend with 50/50 and being presented as the lower echelon. 



zkorejo said:


> They are getting tv time, Dante losing isn't that different from Darby losing all his big matches on Dynamite first year. Same for Jungleboy, same for Sammy. Getting tv time and big matches where they get to work with bigger names is a victory in itself for them.
> 
> Hobbs has been presented pretty damn good.
> 
> Jade is unstoppable and she can't even do a fuckin pump kick right at times.


Darby had some losses, but those were also coming against guys like Jericho, Moxley, Pac, and Cody being allowed to take them to decent limits in the process. You felt the whole time he was clearly being built up for success in the near future. 

Dante isn't rubbing elbows with talent of that level on a frequent basis, nor does his step up feel on the immediate horizon. Though eventually I do think he'll be fine. But for the here and now .


----------



## DrEagles

Big Swole needs to shut the fuck up. She’s playing the “victim” game because she wasn’t resigned due to her being a boring character and mediocre in the ring. Had absolutely nothing to do with race. Tony is a minority himself. Brian Cage hasn’t been on TV in awhile. I guess it’s race related too…oh wait he’s white. Riho, Shida and Nyla are all ex champions. Nyla is a transsexual black woman. You can’t get anymore accepting than that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Its bad booking for the same reason people get annoyed with the 50/50 booking in WWE. How are the girls below supposed to get over and ascend with 50/50 and being presented as the lower echelon.
> 
> 
> 
> Darby had some losses, but those were also coming against guys like Jericho, Moxley, Pac, and Cody being allowed to take them to decent limits in the process. You felt the whole time he was clearly being built up for success in the near future.
> 
> Dante isn't rubbing elbows with talent of that level on a frequent basis, nor does his step up feel on the immediate horizon. Though eventually I do think he'll be fine. But for the here and now .


but only 2 women is in the 50% zone

and even then - 50 / 50 booking denotes a continuous exchange of wins between 2 parties whereby nobody gets over

none of these women have that if you look at their matches for 2021


----------



## zkorejo

RapShepard said:


> Its bad booking for the same reason people get annoyed with the 50/50 booking in WWE. How are the girls below supposed to get over and ascend with 50/50 and being presented as the lower echelon.
> 
> 
> 
> Darby had some losses, but those were also coming against guys like Jericho, Moxley, Pac, and Cody being allowed to take them to decent limits in the process. You felt the whole time he was clearly being built up for success in the near future.
> 
> Dante isn't rubbing elbows with talent of that level on a frequent basis, nor does his step up feel on the immediate horizon. Though eventually I do think he'll be fine. But for the here and now .


Darby lost to fuckin Janella and that weirdo that got released for sexual harassment (can't rem his name). Darby lost all his big matches. But was always presented well. 

Same is the case with Dante. He always has a great showing and leaves everyone praising him even after his losses. The only time I thought his lack of experience showed is his match with MJF. 

All the matches Dante has had a good showing. Got alot of offense in on Black, MJF. His Sydal matches were one of the best matches of 2021 for me. He's clearly being taken care of and made to look good in his losses.


----------



## NathanMayberry

AEW's booking plan for 2022 has been leaked...


----------



## RapShepard

Rhetro said:


> Did you ever stop to think maybe Britt was putting in the training work behind the scenes more than anyone else and that’s what justified her staying n tv? You ever think maybe someone like Swol showed up, had no desire to improve outside of having matches and had a bad attitude?
> 
> it’s more than just swole too. Take race out of it. There is absolutly no lack of diversity in AEW. There are tons of people of colour that have been in prominent matches. But it seems the people that get pushed, put in the most work! That’s why you see them improving and getting tv time.
> 
> can you tell me swole improved her skills or character one ounce down in dark? You can’t. She didn’t put in the work and now is trying to blame the company for her own entitlements.
> 
> and here is the other thing that is argued, oh a black person wants more black people, so people of Color to them means just black people, they don’t count any other person of color When they account that in their statement. Isn’t thst the most racist and selfish thing of all? Are you worried about diversity and the definition thereof or are you just worried about yourself and using that word to try and twist things?
> 
> she’s using the words plain and simple and no one is buying it. And lio Rush calling out Tk demanding things of him on Twitter deserves a swift termination.


I'm once again going to go back to why was green Britt Baker allowed to grow on the job on TV. Now kudos to her for taking the opportunity and knocking it out the park. But we're not going to pretend that she was the only woman working hard so she had to get more TV time than the first 3 women's champion to where it came to a point where not putting the title on her didn't make sense. 

There's only so much growth one can have tucked away in matches nobody is watching. 




LifeInCattleClass said:


> @RapShepard - also, on losing and telling the audience they suck
> 
> I also disagree on this take for Dante
> 
> Here is his 2021 matches - let's see if we all recognise the trend here
> 
> View attachment 114176
> 
> 
> Guy is paired with Sydal / loses all of his matches basically
> 
> Then gets paired with Lio, featured heavily and wins his last 5
> 
> you're only as good as your last game - and the audience remembers this win streak over anything else - and the kid is primed for 2022, only narrowly losing to MJF due to interference


Where do you see Dante ending his 2022? Do you think he'll be in a position like Sammy where he's around TNT title level or like Jungle Boy where him and his brother are gearing up for tag title contention?

I don't see him being in either spot, until at least mid next 2023, but I could be wrong. 



zkorejo said:


> Darby lost to fuckin Janella and that weirdo that got released for sexual harassment (can't rem his name). Darby lost all his big matches. But was always presented well.
> 
> Same is the case with Dante. He always has a great showing and leaves everyone praising him even after his losses. The only time I thought his lack of experience showed is his match with MJF.
> 
> All the matches Dante has had a good showing. Got alot of offense in on Black, MJF. His Sydal matches were one of the best matches of 2021 for me. He's clearly being taken care of and made to look good in his losses.


You do realize Janela took the pin in that match?


We'll see where.he goes. I don't see him getting his real push until next year. But we shall see.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> I'm once again going to go back to why was green Britt Baker allowed to grow on the job on TV. Now kudos to her for taking the opportunity and knocking it out the park. But we're not going to pretend that she was the only woman working hard so she had to get more TV time than the first 3 women's champion to where it came to a point where not putting the title on her didn't make sense.


During Bakers rise, didn't they actually have Swole go over her!?


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> During Bakers rise, didn't they actually have Swole go over her!?


Yup, and guess who disappeared off TV and who stayed despite that match being considered dumpster juice? Britt had a Cody moment lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> But if you're arguing for black diversity maybe pointing out there's only one black person in the company that has a winning TV record lol.


only 1 white woman too.... and 1 Japanese woman


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> Yup, and guess who disappeared off TV


The least talented one? Lol


----------



## Sad Panda

Erik. said:


> The least talented one? Lol


Seems that was a very good move rather than giving the spot to the angry entitled wrestler.


----------



## Erik.

Sad Panda said:


> Seems that was a very good move rather than giving the spot to the angry entitled wrestler.


The only booking decision Khan got wrong when it comes to Big Swole was booking her in the first place.


----------



## DrEagles

LifeInCattleClass said:


> only 1 white woman too.... and 1 Japanese woman


Exactly. Forced Diversity is such bullshit. Let things happen naturally. Do you think Vince pushed The Rock because he was black? Hell no, he became one of the GOATS because of his TALENT, not the color of his skin. I think we can all agree Big Swole was meh and nobody will miss her being gone. What’s sad is they’re going to say all this BS Swole brought up will be the reason why Jade won the TBS Title


----------



## RiverFenix

What a PR fuck up by Tony Khan. Just issue a corporate response and move on. He just put so much more eyes on the original garbage. Swole signing was always a mistake as she always had a huge racial chip on her shoulder. Tony's reply though puts his whole AA roster on the spot though and will have to comment and pick sides. I bet Lio will quit/be granted his release. 

I always did feel AEW was signing a certain type of AA wrestlers - not really any overtly from the "For the culture" mindset. 

Will be very interesting if Strickland signs.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> only 1 white woman too.... and 1 Japanese woman


Again 

"We have diversity, we have that one black girl that wins on TV, and that one Asian girl who kinda wins on TV"



Erik. said:


> The least talented one? Lol


Sure, now explain why Britt got more TV time than the first 3 champions even when she wasn't exactly exuding talent?


----------



## Sad Panda

RiverFenix said:


> What a PR fuck up by Tony Khan. Just issue a corporate response and move on. He just put so much more eyes on the original garbage. Swole signing was always a mistake as she always had a huge racial chip on her shoulder. Tony's reply though puts his whole AA roster on the spot though and will have to comment and pick sides. I bet Lio will quit/be granted his release.
> 
> I always did feel AEW was signing a certain type of AA wrestlers - not really any overtly from the "For the culture" mindset.
> 
> Will be very interesting if Strickland signs.


This I do agree with. In situations like that Khan needs to learn to be more “business-like” and not just shoot from the hip. Release a company statement and stay away from what this could potentially become. Really poor strategy by Khan.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Guess Needle Dick unironically made WWE the good guys


----------



## zkorejo

RapShepard said:


> I'm once again going to go back to why was green Britt Baker allowed to grow on the job on TV. Now kudos to her for taking the opportunity and knocking it out the park. But we're not going to pretend that she was the only woman working hard so she had to get more TV time than the first 3 women's champion to where it came to a point where not putting the title on her didn't make sense.
> 
> There's only so much growth one can have tucked away in matches nobody is watching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you see Dante ending his 2022? Do you think he'll be in a position like Sammy where he's around TNT title level or like Jungle Boy where him and his brother are gearing up for tag title contention?
> 
> I don't see him being in either spot, until at least mid next 2023, but I could be wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize Janela took the pin in that match?
> 
> 
> We'll see where.he goes. I don't see him getting his real push until next year. But we shall see.


On Dante, it's quite apparent, everyone at AEW especially TK is very high on Dante's potential. He's just a 22 year old kid. Ofcourse he needs time and that's what aew does, they give them time and guidance. You say 2022, I don't. He is a tag wrestler and won't get his singles shine anytime soon. He wants to tag with his brother and they are all basically waiting on him. These two boys can be something similar to next Hardys tbh. 

It wasn't just Baker that got those opportunities though. Nyla, Shida, Riho, Swole, Allie. All these girls got their chances the first year. They were all featured. If Britt goes up to TK with an idea to get herself over while she was injured, doesn't she deserve to get that spotlight? 

AEW clearly has an environment where wrestlers are encouraged to come up with ideas and get their stuff in the show. The idea of the Roles Royce, sending cards to Tony Schiovani on commentary, doing the short promos. The girl tried her best to get over when she was sidelined. The girl got over regardless of all the stigma of "only being employed because sleeping with friend of Bucks". 

Swole got to feud Britt when she was starting to get over. Swole fuckin beat Britt in the dentist office match or whatever it was called. What did she do with that momentum? Nothing. Now she's sitting and complaining about not having someone to handhold her to a title reign and write her promos is kind of pathetic tbh.


----------



## Dizzie

NathanMayberry said:


> Wow… *go Swole*.
> 
> 
> I expect AEW fans are gonna hate her and every one else that leaves and says similar things in 2022
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is what any sane wrestling fan watching aew thought of her.

she was awful and dragged down any program she was. Sorry it's laughable that anyone would actually buy into the comments of a female wrestler that is one of those people in life that likes to play the victim. 

Swole moaning about creative is about the equivalent of nia jax or ryback doing the same with wwe creative, what swole is basically moaning about is that aew weren't able to pull a miracle out of their ass to make her remotely interesting without her having to put in any real effort. it's become all too easy for wrestlers to use creative as an excuse for just not being any good, let's see swoles stock sky rocket shall we without aew's creative issues holding her back....


----------



## NathanMayberry

RapShepard said:


> Again
> 
> "We have diversity, we have that one black girl that wins on TV, and that one Asian girl who kinda wins on TV"


That's how white people like their All Exclusively White Dynamite to be though.. Why can't the blacks just be happy with being on Dark?


----------



## Sad Panda

NathanMayberry said:


> That's how white people like their All Exclusively White Dynamite to be though.. Why can't the blacks just be happy with being on Dark?


You’re just here to start trouble huh? Love the race baiting my guy.


----------



## Jnewt

Erik. said:


> During Bakers rise, didn't they actually have Swole go over her!?


Once on TV and once on PPV. Along with Britt playing the cowardly heel in a wheelchair if I remember correctly. Swole was the dom in the feud and won outright. Britt never even got her revenge but I think many were happy the feud was over with. A few months later Swole is putting on the same F-tier performances, and Brit and Thunder Rosa put on probably the best woman's match I have ever seen. At least since Trish and Lita. Swole can't say she wasn't given opportunities to get over or grow as a performer.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> Sure, now explain why Britt got more TV time than the first 3 champions even when she wasn't exactly exuding talent?


Because she's white of course.


----------



## TheFiend666

This thread just shows some AEW marks will die on the cross for this company and it's becoming a little weird


----------



## Jnewt

NathanMayberry said:


> That's how white people like their All Exclusively White Dynamite to be though.. Why can't the blacks just be happy with being on Dark?


So you're saying that these guys are the face of "White Supremacy"?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Sad Panda said:


> You’re just here to start trouble huh? Love the race baiting my guy.


Y'all are the ones going after her for not being happy with being on Dark..

Its funny how a lack of talent was never used to explain the many of the bland and mediocre white dudes on the mediocre roster. If Big Swole needed to go for a lack of talent, what the fuck are Marko Stunt, Janella, Botchlander, Tye Dillinger, Luther, or the losers on Dark Order still doing on the roster?


----------



## thorwold

When it comes down to it I'd say about half the people who talk about diversity aren't actually talking about diversity, but how a white world should become a black and white world. The world isn't black and white, nor is life, and these arguments just make me laugh my ass off.

AEW is owned and run by a Pakistani.

Their CBO is a black woman, is she not? I don't know how much of that is just a fake title, and how much is actual work that she does, but it's her job title, which suggests she's representation at the top.

Do Velvet and Jade not get on TV a fair deal for people who, when it comes down to it, aren't very good at their job?

One half of the first tag champions, the current tag champions, the first 3 womens champions, the soon to be first TBS champion, Sammy just now even.

When it comes down to it the only thing you really have to throw at them is the mens world title, and anybody who argues with the trio of Jericho, Moxley and Omega is probably a little bit of a clown. They're building a business. You got to do what you got to do.


----------



## ProjectGargano

NathanMayberry said:


> AEW's booking plan for 2022 has been leaked...
> 
> View attachment 114178


You are just a troll at this point, you are not helping your cause here.


----------



## ShadowCounter

RapShepard said:


> Yup, and guess who disappeared off TV and who stayed despite that match being considered dumpster juice? Britt had a Cody moment lol


Unless I'm remembering a different incident, Swole had a flare up right after that and had to miss time. I remember her talking about a flare up costing her during a push.


----------



## Geert Wilders

RapShepard said:


> Hobbs and The Acclaimed would be much better served if they were allowed to win more and Dynamite and Rampage. Yeah on paper they have solid records, but if it's not happening on TV we know it doesn't mean much. Hell that goes into why folk laugh about the Gunn Club, on paper they should've been had a tag title shot, in reality dozens of Dark wins mean shit. It's why folk were saying Wardlow needed to have more matches on TV.


No doubt. Completely agree with that. However, there’s literally no other black wrestlers I think that should get a push. The talent needs to be better. I don’t know why they haven’t signed the Pope yet. Massively underrated.


----------



## ProjectGargano

NathanMayberry said:


> Y'all are the ones going after her for not being happy with being on Dark..
> 
> Its funny how a lack of talent was never used to explain the many of the bland and mediocre white dudes on the mediocre roster. If Big Swole needed to go for a lack of talent, what the fuck are Marko Stunt, Janella, Botchlander, Tye Dillinger, Luther, or the losers on Dark Order still doing on the roster?


Statlander is 100 times better than Swole.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Jnewt said:


> So you're saying that these guys are the face of "White Supremacy"?


Nah these two are shit owners who do nothing but pander. 

And now are getting called out for it. Lmao I've never seen Tiny Kahn's defense squad of simps working this hard to defend his honor. On reddit, twitter and here, y'all have been up all night making sure no one says anything bad about Needle Dick.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Again
> 
> "We have diversity, we have that one black girl that wins on TV, and that one Asian girl who kinda wins on TV"


lol, what?

its more like - we have one Black star dominating, one white champ doing ok and one japanese former champ doing ok when looking at that current top 3

but don't worry - Thunder Rosa, Kris and more incoming


----------



## Sad Panda

As


NathanMayberry said:


> Y'all are the ones going after her for not being happy with being on Dark..
> 
> Its funny how a lack of talent was never used to explain the many of the bland and mediocre white dudes on the mediocre roster.


Bro, she could absolutely not be happy where she’s at or what she’s doing. That’s her prerogative. But when she throws in race and then in the same token throws shade at Jade Cargill… a female black wrestler, that’s where all credibility is gonzo. Sorry, I’m not buying into her victim bullshit.. she was just not good.


----------



## zkorejo

I swear the majority of this forum hated Swole up til like.. yesterday. No wonder now she's super talented because she's shitting on AEW.


----------



## Erik.

Big Swole has had 12 matches on Dynamite, Rampage or PPV since she signed, including going over Britt Baker twice and a world title shot.

What white or asian, who's worse than her, had more matches or more title shots?

I'll wait.

Big Swole was universally hated on here. Because she wasn't any good.

Most of us are in agreement that Khan's tweet was tone deaf, saying she was released for being no good was unnecessary too. - but the race baiting on here is embarrassing.


----------



## NathanMayberry

ProjectGargano said:


> You are just a troll at this point, you are not helping your cause here.


There is no cause.

This is a thread where the white majority are collectively circle jerking themselves. 


Y'all can pretend this is some kind of discussion but it really isn't.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Erik. said:


> Big Swole has had 12 matches on Dynamite, Rampage or PPV since she signed, including going over Britt Baker twice and a world title shot.
> 
> What white or asian, who's worse than her, had more matches or more title shots?
> 
> I'll wait.
> 
> Big Swole was universally hated on here. Because she wasn't any good.
> 
> Most of us are in agreement that Khan's tweet was tone deaf, saying she was released for being no good was unnecessary too. - but the race baiting on here is embarrassing.


Botchlander is trash. Yet gets on TV as soon as she's done hurting someone or recovered from hurting herself


----------



## Geert Wilders

Erik. said:


> Big Swole has had 12 matches on Dynamite, Rampage or PPV since she signed, including going over Britt Baker twice and a world title shot.
> 
> What white or asian, who's worse than her, had more matches or more title shots?
> 
> I'll wait.
> 
> Big Swole was universally hated on here. Because she wasn't any good.
> 
> Most of us are in agreement that Khan's tweet was tone deaf - but the race baiting on here is embarrassing.


The excessive outrage is clearly a front for actually just disliking AEW and Tony Khan. I don’t think most genuinely care about Swole and her opinion.


----------



## Erik.

NathanMayberry said:


> Bitchlander is trash.


She's 1000% better than Big Swole.


----------



## NathanMayberry

ProjectGargano said:


> Statlander is 100 times better than Swole.


At injuring other wrestlers and botching yes.


----------



## Rhetro

Jnewt said:


> Once on TV and once on PPV. Along with Britt playing the cowardly heel in a wheelchair if I remember correctly. Swole was the dom in the feud and won outright. Britt never even got her revenge but I think many were happy the feud was over with. A few months later Swole is putting on the same F-tier performances, and Brit and Thunder Rosa put on probably the best woman's match I have ever seen. At least since Trish and Lita. Swole can't say she wasn't given opportunities to get over or grow as a performer.


This is something that crossed my mind as well. Take out baker and put swole in that match with Rosa… tell me with a straight face how that would have turned out.


----------



## Erik.

NathanMayberry said:


> At injuring other wrestlers and botching yes.


You're embarrassing yourself. 

Stop it.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Geert Wilders said:


> The excessive outrage is clearly a front for actually just disliking AEW and Tony Khan. I don’t think most genuinely care about Swole and her opinion.


Or maybe its from the CEO of AEW acting like an autistic spaz? 

Did Lio Rush, dislike AEW and Tiny Khan too?


----------



## Jnewt

NathanMayberry said:


> Nah these two are shit owners who do nothing but pander.
> 
> And now are getting called out for it. Lmao I've never seen Tiny Kahn's defense squad of simps working this hard to defend his honor. On reddit, twitter and here, y'all have been up all night making sure no one says anything bad about Needle Dick.


Lame comeback dude. I've heard my 12 year old nephew come up with better shit than that.


----------



## ProjectGargano

NathanMayberry said:


> At injuring other wrestlers and botching yes.


So, what do you like on Swole? What is her strong?


----------



## ShadowCounter

NathanMayberry said:


> This is a thread where the white majority are collectively circle jerking themselves.


There it is again. What is your new found obsession with dick? Tony Khan's in particular? How you gonna keep commenting on his size like you've seen it. Wait. Have you?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Erik. said:


> You're embarrassing yourself.
> 
> Stop it.


The only embarrassment here, are the simps rushing to Tiny's defense.


----------



## CM Buck

NathanMayberry said:


> There is no cause.
> 
> This is a thread where the white majority are collectively circle jerking themselves.
> 
> 
> Y'all can pretend this is some kind of discussion but it really isn't.


Don't go there. Very dangerous territory to label everyone who doesn't agree with swole as racist.


----------



## RapShepard

NathanMayberry said:


> That's how white people like their All Exclusively White Dynamite to be though.. Why can't the blacks just be happy with being on Dark?


I don't think folk truly mean for it to come off that way. But it's always weird how folk can't seem to understand that

1. Entertainment wise folk like to see themselves as not just participants, but as folk in prominent roles. 

2. When it comes to mentions of lack of diversity defaulting to "well obviously it's just a skills issue" because then that paints the false picture that in entertainment things are solely done on merit.


----------



## zkorejo

Tony Khan is a bit too thin skinned. But i don't mind him saying his piece. He's not wrong here tbh. Swole wasn't anything special in the ring or as a character. 

Atleast Jade has a great look. Actually is big and swole. 

Besides, didn't Swole herself decide not to resign? And it's clearly because she wasn't handed a world title for being of color. 

Sasha and Bianca are fucking amazing at their craft. Has nothing to do with skin color. Their match was amazing and I swear I didn't even realize until I read it later that it's two black women main-eventing WrestleMania. 

Be that good if you want their accomplishments. Representation my ass.


----------



## Geert Wilders

NathanMayberry said:


> Or maybe its from the CEO of AEW acting like an autistic spaz?
> 
> Did Lio Rush, dislike AEW and Tiny Khan too?


The keyword is “most”

As you can see in my earlier post that i believe it was not right for TK to tweet what he did.
However, people should come out and say that instead of “AEW DOESNT CARE ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE”. Essentially theyre diluting the topic at hand.
People now defending someone who was universally disliked in the ring just because she attacked TK.
It’s embarrassing and fake BLM woke opinion.


----------



## Sad Panda

NathanMayberry said:


> The only embarrassment here, are the simps rushing to Tiny's defense.


Many in this thread have disagreed with Khans tweet while also disagreeing with Swole and her “agenda”.


----------



## NathanMayberry

ProjectGargano said:


> So, what do you like on Swole? What is her strong?


Did I ever tell you I liked Big Swole? 

See, y'all are only capable of making shit up in your heads and arguing from that, rather than arguing based on what people are actually saying. 

I support Black wrestlers. All Exclusively White wrestling has shown time and time again, it has no place for people like me. I don't care how shit Big Swole is, there is no argument that can be made that she is not good enough when you have this sack of excrement on the roster.


----------



## NathanMayberry

ShadowCounter said:


> There it is again. What is your new found obsession with dick? Tony Khan's in particular? How you gonna keep commenting on his size like you've seen it. Wait. Have you?


Yup, its needle sized.

That's why Tiny Khan exudes so much small dick energy... That energy tends to attract men who exude it too, which explains the simps


----------



## ProjectGargano

NathanMayberry said:


> Did I ever tell you I liked Big Swole?
> 
> See, y'all are only capable of making shit up in your heads and arguing from that, rather than arguing based on what people are actually saying.
> 
> I support Black wrestlers. All Exclusively White wrestling has shown time and time again, it has no place for people like me. I don't care how shit Big Swole is, there is no argument that can be made that she is not good enough when you have this sack of excrement on the roster.


No, you said she is better than Statlander, which isn't true, and I asked you how is she better.

Why you don't support Wrestlers based on their quality and not based on their skin color?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Firefromthegods said:


> Don't go there. Very dangerous territory to label everyone who doesn't agree with swole as racist.


Please spot the post where I called anyone racist? Quote it specifically.


----------



## ShadowCounter

zkorejo said:


> Tony Khan is a bit too thin skinned. But i don't mind him saying his piece. He's not wrong here tbh. Swole wasn't anything special in the ring or as a character.
> 
> Atleast Jade has a great look. Actually is big and swole.
> 
> Besides, didn't Swole herself decide not to resign? And it's clearly because she wasn't handed a world title for being of color.
> 
> Sasha and Bianca are fucking amazing at their craft. Has nothing to do with skin color. Their match was amazing and I swear I didn't even realize until I read it later that it's two black women main-eventing WrestleMania.
> 
> Be that good if you want their accomplishments. Representation my ass.


I dunno. Sasha could pass for white in some circles. Some on twitter have said that overrides her minority status. Apparently she's just not black enough.


----------



## Erik.

NathanMayberry said:


> Yup, its needle sized.
> 
> That's why Tiny Khan exudes so much small dick energy... That energy tends to attract men who exude it too, which explains the simps


Your obsession with Tony Khan is a bit weird.


----------



## NathanMayberry

ProjectGargano said:


> No, you said she is better than Statlander, which isn't true, and I asked you how is she better.
> 
> Why you don't support Wrestlers based on their quality and not based on their skin color?


Is this her? 



















__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SCJerk/comments/o8rnre


----------



## 3venflow

Erik. said:


> Your obsession with Tony Khan is a bit weird.


There's a few on here who obsess over him, hating his every word, every move, dissing him while he lives rent-free in their head and knows nothing of their existence.

"Nobody hates wrestling more than wrestling fans." - Anonymous

Is this your Twitter, Nath?





__





Loading…






twitter.com


----------



## ShadowCounter

Erik. said:


> Your obsession with Tony Khan is a bit weird.


Incredibly. And he's not even close to being a solo act.


----------



## Erik.

ShadowCounter said:


> Incredibly. And he's not even close to being a solo act.


Bless him. 

He even has him as his display photo.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Erik. said:


> Your obsession with Tony Khan is a bit weird.


Is it? 

I'm sorry I don't fit your criteria of normal by simping for a billionaire.


----------



## zkorejo

ShadowCounter said:


> I dunno. Sasha could pass for white in some circles. Some on twitter have said that overrides her minority status. Apparently she's just not black enough.


I swear I can't help but be amused at first world problems at times. 

As a third world country brown resident, I was raised to believe in meritocracy. And here alot of people can't even get their foot in the door to a decent workplace on merit even with their masters degrees.


----------



## Hayabusasc

NathanMayberry said:


> Is it?
> 
> I'm sorry I don't fit your criteria of normal by simping for a billionaire.


Why are you conducting yourself like this? It's really childish. Look at how someone like RapShepherd posts - and compare your posts to theirs.

You can have a different point of view but every single one of your posts is just a poorly concealed bait. Raps on the other hand come with reasonable points which while people might not agree, atleast show some thought.


----------



## NathanMayberry

> Why you don't support Wrestlers based on their quality and not based on their skin color?


I'm sorry for supporting wrestlers that look like me.


----------



## CM Buck

NathanMayberry said:


> Please spot the post where I called anyone racist? People quote it specifically.


The white majority circle jerking themselves. Line. It's silly. It's,making it sound like you think everyone who shits on Swole is doing cause she is black? This thread has been crapping on both her and Tony evenly.

If this is not your intention explain the white majority line?


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

RapShepard said:


> Listen I'm not saying Big Swole is some huge star that was lost to time if she was given a chance.
> 
> My point is if folk are asking for diversity the talent argument is disingenuous from a company standpoint when non talented or limited talented folk have been given time to grow and improve in prime position.


Britt is potentially the worst example you can use. There are several obvious reasons why she's been given more time, and none of them have to do with race.


----------



## ShadowCounter

zkorejo said:


> I swear I can't help but be amused at first world problems at times.
> 
> As a third world country brown resident, I was raised to believe in meritocracy. And here alot of people can't even get their foot in the door to a decent workplace on merit even with their masters degrees.


Yeah, some people here spend far too much time with their heads up their asses.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Hayabusasc said:


> Why are you conducting yourself like this? It's really childish. Look at how someone like RapShepherd posts - and compare your posts to theirs.
> 
> You can have a different point of view but every single one of your posts is just a poorly concealed bait. Raps on the other hand come with reasonable points which while people might not agree, atleast show some thought.


Lmao you mean the same Rap that spent hours trying to explain his points and faced repeated ridicule for it? 

Fuck that. I'm telling it like it is. If AEW didn't want to be called out by black people, they shouldn't have spent the last 3 years alienating black people. This has been a LONG time coming. The All Exclusively White characterization of AEW didn't start last night,


----------



## Klitschko

Erik. said:


> Your obsession with Tony Khan is a bit weird.


It's because Khan exudes small dick energy, so in his own words he can relate to him.


----------



## Geert Wilders

NathanMayberry said:


> Lmao you mean the same Rap that spent hours trying to explain his points and faced repeated ridicule for it?
> 
> Fuck that. I'm telling it like it is. If AEW didn't want to be called out by black people, they shouldn't have spent the last 3 years alienating black people. This has been a LONG time coming. The All Exclusively White characterization of AEW didn't start last night,


did you bring it up prior to this?


----------



## Erik.

Klitschko said:


> It's because Khan exudes small dick energy, so in his own words he can relate to him.


Makes sense.


----------



## 3venflow

Has this been posted anywhere in the thread?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477147743025975296


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> Because she's white of course.


That or cronyism either her talent wasn't what initially got her the chance to get good. 

Worked out for the best though


ShadowCounter said:


> Unless I'm remembering a different incident, Swole had a flare up right after that and had to miss time. I remember her talking about a flare up costing her during a push.


If that's the case then fair enough can't use somebody who's sick, though she didn't go back to TV to learn.


Geert Wilders said:


> No doubt. Completely agree with that. However, there’s literally no other black wrestlers I think that should get a push. The talent needs to be better. I don’t know why they haven’t signed the Pope yet. Massively underrated.


Pope I think unfortunately is too old. Not somebody I'd suggest to devote the TV time to build him into something worthwhile.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, what?
> 
> its more like - we have one Black star dominating, one white champ doing ok and one japanese former champ doing ok when looking at that current top 3
> 
> but don't worry - Thunder Rosa, Kris and more incoming


Thunder definitely needs more TV time. And they definitely should be selling her face mask


----------



## NathanMayberry

Firefromthegods said:


> The white majority circle jerking themselves. Line. It's silly. It's,making it sound like you think everyone who shits on Swole is doing cause she is black? This thread has been crapping on both her and Tony evenly.
> 
> If this is not your intention explain the white majority line?


That's your interpretation. The white majority line is to explain why the majority of users here will never be able to put herself in Big Swole or any black person's shoes and see things from their perpesctive. It allows for all their words to be brushed over and for her entire post to be boiled down to 'she's mad they didn't push her because she's black".

If you want to pretend the majority of wrestling fans aren't white or the majority of users here aren't white, that's nice, but this thread is filled with the same outrage posters who call black people all sorts of names in other threads in the Rant section, and then proceeding to post about how they "hate such types of people" here: 

Case in point.. 










Of course you'd gloss over that.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> That or cronyism either her talent wasn't what initially got her the chance to get good.
> 
> Worked out for the best though


Her talent in the ring, perhaps not.

But it was clear from her heel turn she was alot better than everyone else in her division when it came to having a character and portraying that character. And someone who was worth putting on television. 

Which is where I imagine Swoles criticism comes in regarding ideas and the creative process.

Swole was just hideously poor as a wrestler and using her words, obviously not a very creative person.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Geert Wilders said:


> did you bring it up prior to this?


Yes, 

I brought it up when the Elite brought out 4 white guys in their ghostbusters entrance, I bring it up every time AEW has a PPV card and there are no black wrestlers in any meaningful single matches, I bring it up when I got ridiculed for saying that a black wrestler hasn't had a serious feud for a single's title, and that its approaching two years since black wrestlers have even held a title in AEW.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*The point everyone keeps missing:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477078839901794305
Address the criticisms, don't attack the person presenting the criticisms. It's that simple. This shouldn't have to be explained to a billionaire executive or anyone in any kind of office job.*


----------



## NathanMayberry

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Britt is potentially the worst example you can use. There are several obvious reasons why she's been given more time, and none of them have to do with race.


Those reasons definitely don't have to do with talent


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Thunder definitely needs more TV time. And they definitely should be selling her face mask


actually - Thunder ended up showing quite well for herself based on how far i've come

3rd for featured TV matches

Above average win rate - Her singles wins though (not pictured here) is behind Jade, Britt and almost on par with Kris - she's above Hikaru

She also had matches in 3 of the 4 PPVs this year










as i'm doing this.... I kinda think Jamie is actually being hard done by - her and Hobbs so far are the ones sticking out. Both 11 matches / both only 2 wins


----------



## Geert Wilders

RapShepard said:


> That or cronyism either her talent wasn't what initially got her the chance to get good.
> 
> Worked out for the best thoughIf that's the case then fair enough can't use somebody who's sick, though she didn't go back to TV to learn. Pope I think unfortunately is too old. Not somebody I'd suggest to devote the TV time to build him into something worthwhile.


Pope could make a good vet. Think Christian. 
imagine him + PVP. That is much better than Matt freakin’ hardy.


----------



## Geert Wilders

NathanMayberry said:


> Yes,
> 
> I brought it up when the Elite brought out 4 white guys in their ghostbusters entrance, I bring it up every time AEW has a PPV card and there are no black wrestlers in any meaningful single matches, I bring it up when I got ridiculed for saying that a black wrestler hasn't had a serious feud for a single's title, and that its approaching two years since black wrestlers have even held a title in AEW.


If that’s the case then i respect you for standing up for your consistent opinion.


----------



## NathanMayberry

The Legit Lioness said:


> *The point everyone keeps missing:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477078839901794305
> Address the criticisms, don't attack the person presenting the criticisms. It's that simple. This shouldn't have to be explained to a billionaire executive or anyone in any kind of office job.*


That's exactly how it always is.

Black person talks. White people immediately proceed to find faults with them, so they can ignore what is being said. 

This is as old as time. It's "shut up and <insert verb here>"


----------



## 3venflow

Geert Wilders said:


> Pope could make a good vet. Think Christian.


They have Jay Lethal for this role. Pope is in NWA now.


----------



## ShadowCounter

NathanMayberry said:


> Yes,
> 
> I brought it up when the Elite brought out 4 white guys in their ghostbusters entrance, I bring it up every time AEW has a PPV card and there are no black wrestlers in any meaningful single matches, I bring it up when I got ridiculed for saying that a black wrestler hasn't had a serious feud for a single's title, and that its approaching two years since black wrestlers have even held a title in AEW.


Well, considering it took Vince's WWE 16 years from when he bought it in 82 until the Rock won in 98 to have it's first black world champion AEW is technically right on schedule.


----------



## RapShepard

zkorejo said:


> I swear the majority of this forum hated Swole up til like.. yesterday. No wonder now she's super talented because she's shitting on AEW.


She can suck and have a point that there could be more diversity in the prominent roles. 



Erik. said:


> Her talent in the ring, perhaps not.
> 
> But it was clear from her heel turn she was alot better than everyone else in her division when it came to having a character and portraying that character. And someone who was worth putting on television.
> 
> Which is where I imagine Swoles criticism comes in regarding ideas and the creative process.
> 
> Swole was just hideously poor as a wrestler and using her words, obviously not a very creative person.


Again agree Swole ain't great. Though I do think there needs to be some sort of system that helps the not creative types thrive and in general just simplifies creative in general. Having 15 folk all pushing ideas probably is why the show can feel disjointed and all over the place at times.


----------



## NathanMayberry

ShadowCounter said:


> Well, considering it took Vince's WWE 16 years from when he bought it in 82 until the Rock won in 98 to have it's first black world champion AEW is technically right on schedule.


I do love how y'all think mentioning Vince McMahon absolves Tiny's actions in 2022 though...


----------



## RiverFenix

Geert Wilders said:


> Pope could make a good vet. Think Christian.
> imagine him + PVP. That is much better than Matt freakin’ hardy.


So Black wrestlers have to be paired? Matt Hardy is a friggin huge name, Pope isn't. Hardy tried to play the Doc Hendrix to the Young Hardy Boyz role to Private Party, but it just didn't work out. That idea was worlds above in ambition for PP than putting them with Pope would have been.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> actually - Thunder ended up showing quite well for herself based on how far i've come
> 
> 3rd for featured TV matches
> 
> Above average win rate - Her singles wins though (not pictured here) is behind Jade, Britt and almost on par with Kris - she's above Hikaru
> 
> She also had matches in 3 of the 4 PPVs this year
> 
> View attachment 114185
> 
> 
> as i'm doing this.... I kinda think Jamie is actually being hard done by - her and Hobbs so far are the ones sticking out. Both 11 matches / both only 2 wins


Solid shit, now just go get her back against Britt.

Yeah Heyter and Hobbs definitely got that later day Kane thing going on lol. Like you're telling us monster, but everybody beats them. 



Geert Wilders said:


> Pope could make a good vet. Think Christian.
> imagine him + PVP. That is much better than Matt freakin’ hardy.


I don't see him with them, but maybe why not Matt certainly dropped being their Michael Hayes


----------



## ShadowCounter

NathanMayberry said:


> I do love how y'all think mentioning Vince McMahon absolves Tiny's actions in 2022 though...


Never said anything about letting Khan off the hook.


----------



## NathanMayberry

RapShepard said:


> Yeah Heyter and Hobbs definitely got that later day Kane thing going on lol. Like you're telling us monster, but everybody beats them.


Didn't Man Tits Hobbs get beaten by Orange Cassidy after one punch?


----------



## THANOS

Geert Wilders said:


> No doubt. Completely agree with that. However, there’s literally no other black wrestlers I think that should get a push. The talent needs to be better. I don’t know why they haven’t signed the Pope yet. Massively underrated.


I always loved the Pope character. Massive potential, despite his age now even. 

For some reason, he was just never pushed in either WWECW or TNA. I never understood it.


----------



## Geert Wilders

RiverFenix said:


> So Black wrestlers have to be paired? Matt Hardy is a friggin huge name, Pope isn't. Hardy tried to play the Doc Hendrix to the Young Hardy Boyz role to Private Party, but it just didn't work out. That idea was worlds above in ambition for PP than putting them with Pope would have been.


Obviously you think Matt hardy has not worked for them. I don’t think he has either.
The triple team has potential because of the Popes gimmick and PVPs gimmick. I see some similarities - they All dress outlandishly and have that confidence. PVP need some good direction and Hardy was the wrong person for that.
Better than say, Pope and Butcher and Blade. That pairing doesn’t make sense.

putting them together is no different to Hurt Business. And that was and still is a successful ass faction. Why didn’t they put MVP with some white Team?


----------



## zkorejo

RapShepard said:


> She can suck and have a point that there could be more diversity in the prominent roles.


So her point is what basically? They should push a person of color just for the sake of it? Regardless if they deserve it or not? Why should anyone beat Britt Baker for that women title? Because they are better than her or because they represent a certain market?

So Jinder Mahal was the correct person to be the world champion then over AJ styles?


----------



## ShadowCounter

RapShepard said:


> Thunder definitely needs more TV time. And they definitely should be selling her face mask


How? It's not really a mask. It's half painted face that constantly varies. Maybe a makeup kit with one of her designs in instruction form. Like the ones they have at Halloween.


----------



## Geert Wilders

THANOS said:


> I always loved the Pope character. Massive potential, despite his age now even.
> 
> For some reason, he was just never pushed in either WWECW or TNA. I never understood it.


Super underrated. The gimmick was top tier - I was a huge fan of him in TNA


----------



## NathanMayberry

lmao

this entire thread explained in 3 tweets.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> Again agree Swole ain't great. Though I do think there needs to be some sort of system that helps the not creative types thrive and in general just simplifies creative in general. Having 15 folk all pushing ideas probably is why the show can feel disjointed and all over the place at times.


Perhaps. 

But it's not like there's a lack of experience in that roster if you're struggling to think of something creative. They have had Jake Roberts, Dustin Rhodes, Big Show, Jericho etc. Even Mark Henry who went from doing nothing to Hall of Pain. 

Being creative is part of the job. 

What it seems like she's saying is that she isn't a particularly creative person or good enough to think up a decent story for her character. 

It seems to me like she would need a WWE type environment. Which is quite obviously alot different to what seems like a sink or swim environment in AEW.


----------



## Jman55

The Legit Lioness said:


> *The point everyone keeps missing:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477078839901794305
> Address the criticisms, don't attack the person presenting the criticisms. It's that simple. This shouldn't have to be explained to a billionaire executive or anyone in any kind of office job.*


This is actually a fair point that a lot if people are ignoring the actual argument being made and focusing on Swole's severe lack of talent (which is 100% accurate but not a relevant point of discussion)

However bad faith arguments against her and dumbass tweets from TK (and it was a really dumb af tweet no point defending it) doesn't mean Swole's points are actually correct as has been pointed out in the few actually reasonable arguments AEW is very diverse both in terms of general roster qnd in who gets success with a lot of champs of different backgrounds (only missing a world title holder here but they need that elite talent worthy of it, maybe Starks as people mentioned he's black apparently and imo he's good enough but that would need a while of build with his current card position)

They still have issues and there's definitely some black talent who deserve bigger spotlights (looking at Will Hobbs and newly signed Jay Lethal as I say this) but I think this more comes down to TK still having a lot of weaknesses as a booker and balancing the roster due to his inexperience than any racial pandering going on.

Plus based on the timing and her tweet about Jade this could possibly be seen as a bitter jealousy thing that it's not her in the same position. But that's just possible speculation and not worth getting too invested in so better to focus on the argument itself.

This is ofc my viewpoint and full disclosure I'm as white as it gets so I can't claim to be an authority and can only talk from how it looks to me personally. If you disagree I fully get it and do not mean to step on your own thoughts on the matter.


----------



## Dr. Middy

I did expect them to sign guys like Keith Lee and Isaiah Scott sooner rather than later, so we’ll see how they do given they are real good all around.

Also reading Twitter is wild, dunno why I am doing that right now. But some people on there need to know that while Swole does make some points, you don’t need to hard simp her and say everything she says is factual. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## zkorejo

Yes Keith Lee!. Now that's a great example. If they bring in Keith Lee and he can be as over as he was in NXT. And they don't use him right. I will be the first to call them out on that being bullshit. Like I did in WWE boards.

They are already trying really hard to showcase Jade Cargill as this unstoppable Amazon. And she isn't even ready for such a push if I'm being completely honest. How does this not count for using someone prominently?

Not being a racist doesn't mean you hand out promotions/pushes to people of color so you can later tweet about it. Not being a racist is evaluating all employees on the basis of their performance and potential regardless of the color of their skin. 

If you hand out a push to someone to please their community, isn't that unfair to the other person who might be white but actually better than that person. 

Best way to conduct business is to evaluate based on meritocracy. Wrestlers who connect with audience for their wrestling or character should be the ones that get prominent positions. That's how its supposed to work, in my opinion.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Jman55 said:


> This is actually a fair point that a lot if people are ignoring the actual argument being made and focusing on Swole's severe lack of talent (which is 100% accurate but not a relevant point of discussion)
> 
> However bad faith arguments against her and dumbass tweets from TK (and it was a really dumb af tweet no point defending it) doesn't mean Swole's points are actually correct as has been pointed out in the few actually reasonable arguments AEW is very diverse both in terms of general roster qnd in who gets success with a lot of champs of different backgrounds (only missing a world title holder here but they need that elite talent worthy of it, maybe Starks as people mentioned he's black apparently and imo he's good enough but that would need a while of build with his current card position)
> 
> They still have issues and there's definitely some black talent who deserve bigger spotlights (looking at Will Hobbs and newly signed Jay Lethal as I say this) but I think this more comes down to TK still having a lot of weaknesses as a booker and balancing the roster due to his inexperience than any racial pandering going on.
> 
> Plus based on the timing and her tweet about Jade this could possibly be seen as a bitter jealousy thing that it's not her in the same position. But that's just possible speculation and not worth getting too invested in so better to focus on the argument itself.
> 
> This is ofc my viewpoint and full disclosure I'm as white as it gets so I can't claim to be an authority and can only talk from how it looks to me personally. If you disagree I fully get it and do not mean to step on your own thoughts on the matter.


*I have no problem whatsoever with your viewpoint because you came from a place of fairness. There's no malice towards either party and you're calling it how you see it. We get things done by having conversations like this so both sides can understand where the other is coming from.

You can disagree with Swole saying there's no diversity whatsoever, because I do as well. However, it cannot be denied that diversity is underrepresented in this company and the executives see it as a quota instead of a standard. I pointed this out 2 weeks ago with a dumbass quote from the SVP basically saying that Black people watch TNT for basketball, so that means they watch us too, and we're doing just fine with diversity. The usual suspects wanted to say I was reaching and call me crazy, but here we are with Tony Khan showing his ass yet again and proving me right. They will do the bare minimum so they have something to point at when people come at them for stuff like this and not actually care to understand the criticisms.*


----------



## Seth Grimes

RapShepard said:


> 1. Idk how long you've been online, but I've been online since 2005 and Vince not putting thee title on a English wrestler has always been a talking point. Hell even the valid "why do they have to be the evil Englishman" thing has been a consistent talking point. Barrett and Bulldog are common cases of misused English stars.
> 
> 2. White people seeing other white people point doesn't really make any sense when discussing representation for minorities. White people in the UK and US are represented heavily in the media and entertainment, because they're the majority group. Okay fair. But other groups do exist, so it's weird when white people get so confused on why non-white people might want representation.
> 
> 3. It's also weird when folk use the "oh you see there's not more representation because they're not talented enough". Because then it just glosses over all the shitty majority folk that are allowed to exist. Again Britt Baker was actively shitty and was put on TV and allowed to grow.
> 
> 4. Yeah shit like rap and basketball are predominantly black, yet your whole argument falls apart when you have to acknowledge that the white talent that pop off in these things flourish even more because the majority white America likes to be able to relate.
> 
> 5. Other minorites should be fighting their own battles. Like the way Asian talent is used in WWE and AEW I'd be annoyed. The WWE's insistence that every masked luchador needs to be the next Mysterio would annoy me if I was Hispanic.


1. Long enough that I should have seen people talking about it more than once tbh. In person I've never met an English wrestling fan that mentions it, and online I can't honestly remember ever seeing it, so it must have either happened on such rare occasion, or not had much of a buzz. Either way, you hear about this from black people a shit tonne when they are pretty heavily represented already. So do you not think that a lack of English people is a problem?

2. I would agree but this isn't non-white people wanting representation, it's black people, it's always black people. And as I've stated, you guys have a tonne of representation yet still claim this "we want MORE representation" thing whilst I can't remember seeing any representation for people from large parts of the world that isn't in North America, when it comes to North American media such as WWE/AEW. You guys look at race a lot, but you only think of terms of America, so when us in Europe see white Americans on TV, it doesn't do anything for us. The same way it does nothing for white Spanish/German/French etc to see people like Pete Dunne in NXT. Cause they feel they have no connection to him, as he's just an Englishman. 

3. Well I've made the first point saying you're overrepresented tbh. And the second saying that there can be legit answers for why to your standards that black people might not show up in wrestling as much. But as I've said, people seen potential in Britt. It's not the same to see someone as being shitty, and having little potential, and someone who's not great, but has great potential. People have been saying Swole is the shits for the longest of times, cause no one thought she'd improve. 

4. Do they? Music is quite literally a popularity contest, so when 90% of a genre is black, I'd say that's pretty good when you are 16% of the country. You think that a majority white country won't be able to produce any good talent? This is kinda funny for your argument, because you're thinking the 16% should be doing way more in wrestling, whilst the 76% of white Americans are doing too much in rap where they are the minority? How can you think those two things simultaneously, you're gonna have to either say you think white people just aren't as good, which is what you are disagreeing with for black wrestlers, or you need to prove that white people are dominating rap as well which ofc isn't gonna happen. Basketball's most famous players are legit all black though? You could argue that players such as Doncic and Jokic are underappreciated because they aren't black. 

5. But again, are they used poorly when they can't speak English? I'd say the Japanese wrestlers that come over do pretty well whilst having near 0 mic skills. This isn't a matter of Asians, it's a matter of being foreign. Cause yeah you say you're annoyed for Asians and Hispanic people, yet they are everywhere in wrestling, what about the countries in Europe that have either little or no representation, the countries in Africa, the middle east, etc etc. It's just weird seeing black people STILL complaining about more representation whilst taking up a huge portion of western media. You're gonna need to show me firstly how you're underrepresented, and then make the point for why it's down to race. Cause I don't see how race is currently doing anything but help wrestlers.


----------



## stew mack

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> AEW drones when Big Swole says that the Dub might be bad:
> 
> View attachment 114167



Big Swole sucks dog, and its got nothing to do with racism because I want to make a litter of little Drakes and Obamas with Bianca Belair. Swole is trash garbage ass booty cheeks whatever the fuck you want to use as a synonym for "bad" she is it.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*You know you're fucking up when Vince Russo is the voice of reason.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477312831053709316*


----------



## RapShepard

zkorejo said:


> So her point is what basically? *They should push a person of color just for the sake of it? Regardless if they deserve it or not?* Why should anyone beat Britt Baker for that women title?Because they are better than her or because they represent a certain market?
> 
> So Jinder Mahal was the correct person to be the world champion then over AJ styles?


The problem with this question is that it inherently sets up this false narrative like mediocre white talent aren't ever allowed to thrive in entertainment. Like come on Britt was a mediocre white woman at the beginning of this, yet she was hand picked to be in that face of the division spot lol. 

Like let's hone in on Jinder, if there can be mediocre white champs like Swagger and early Sheamus, why can't there be a mediocre CanIndian in Jinder. 

It's just weird that folk are so against diversity unless the person in question is some damn near undeniable talent lol.


----------



## RapShepard

ShadowCounter said:


> How? It's not really a mask. It's half painted face that constantly varies. Maybe a makeup kit with one of her designs in instruction form. Like the ones they have at Halloween.


Similar to the way they had the plastic sting masks, just make it a half and have multiple designs.


----------



## 3venflow

Where's the diversity here? Shouldn't these teams enforce white (Bulls) and black (Lightning) players on to their team in the name of diversity? Or are they rather focused on having the best talent available to them?

Also, people complain that Scorpio Sky is boring yet TK keeps trying and trying to get him over in different roles. Isn't that unfair on one of the hispanic or white wrestlers waiting in the wings?


----------



## stew mack

NathanMayberry said:


> That's exactly how it always is.
> 
> Black person talks. White people immediately proceed to find faults with them, so they can ignore what is being said.
> 
> This is as old as time. It's "shut up and <insert verb here>"





NathanMayberry said:


> That's exactly how it always is.
> 
> Black person talks. White people immediately proceed to find faults with them, so they can ignore what is being said.
> 
> This is as old as time. It's "shut up and <insert verb here>"



Oh and yall arent guilty of doing something similar every time a white person defends themselves with a gun are you?


----------



## CM Buck

NathanMayberry said:


> That's your interpretation. The white majority line is to explain why the majority of users here will never be able to put herself in Big Swole or any black person's shoes and see things from their perpesctive. It allows for all their words to be brushed over and for her entire post to be boiled down to 'she's mad they didn't push her because she's black".
> 
> If you want to pretend the majority of wrestling fans aren't white or the majority of users here aren't white, that's nice, but this thread is filled with the same outrage posters who call black people all sorts of names in other threads in the Rant section, and then proceeding to post about how they "hate such types of people" here:
> 
> Case in point..
> 
> View attachment 114183
> 
> 
> Of course you'd gloss over that.


Oh come off it mate it's a 30 page thread. I only see what is reported. I'm not pretending anything. I'm just trying to do my job. That poster will be dealt with now I can't believe that wasn't flagged


----------



## Rhetro

NathanMayberry said:


> That's exactly how it always is.
> 
> Black person talks. White people immediately proceed to find faults with them, so they can ignore what is being said.
> 
> This is as old as time. It's "shut up and <insert verb here>"


Both this tweet and reply are fucking ridiculous.

it is ALL about talent when it comes to featuring on TV in an athletic presentation where your skills protect your partner in the ring and your Character skills determine your TV Time. It’s a package deal and has nothing to do with race.

there is Absolutely zero lack of diversity in AEW, unless you want black folks that haven’t earned their spot on the card to be pushed in for the sake of them being black, with zero ability and talent, which inevitably leads to failure.

I will never understand why people in the black community prefer to be patronized like that. Seems every single successful person of Color is against hand outs and has worked their ass off to be at the top. Yet it’s the ones that don’t want to do what it takes that always want to cry afoul because of face. It’s a weak flimsy excuse.

it’s no micro aggression, no matter what her skin Color is she couldn’t cut it to be a star. Too bad so sad. Goodbye stop playing victim.

people that use the term micro aggression while being offended are people that have zero life experience and like to use buzzwords.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Lol, oh brother.


----------



## zkorejo

RapShepard said:


> The problem with this question is that it inherently sets up this false narrative like mediocre white talent aren't ever allowed to thrive in entertainment. Like come on Britt was a mediocre white woman at the beginning of this, yet she was hand picked to be in that face of the division spot lol.
> 
> Like let's hone in on Jinder, if there can be mediocre white champs like Swagger and early Sheamus, why can't there be a mediocre CanIndian in Jinder.
> 
> It's just weird that folk are so against diversity unless the person in question is some damn near undeniable talent lol.


Why are you insistent to suggest that Britt was handpicked? Why do you discredit her for coming up with ideas, finding herself, getting great at microphone while injured. Did she not work her way up? Fans see through that "handpicked" Bs and revolt against it. See Roman, Cena, Charlotte as examples. 

Britt got herself over and it has been said she brought her own ideas and tried her best. 

She wasn't handpicked to be the face of the division by force, she earned her spot. It's not because she was fucking the friend of Bucks. Tony also brought in Cardona, he didn't do fuckall and was let go. 

As for why can't Jinder be a champion and Swagger/Sheamus can? Yes Sheamus and Swagger shouldn't have been champions that early either IMO. Bulldog should have been a champion. 

I'm all for diversity. If it makes sense and isn't forced. If you have a prime Booker T on your roster and you don't prominently use him, then it's on you!. But making Jade Cargill the first TBS champion just because it pleases a market, it's unfair. In my world.. atleast.


----------



## RiverFenix

The Legit Lioness said:


> *You know you're fucking up when Vince Russo is the voice reason.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477312831053709316*


You'd think he'd have learned his lesson when he pulled this same shit with a Jaguars player.


----------



## Garty

Broken Bone said:


> Nobody said WWE didn't do anything wrong. Just that AEW tends to act all mighty about themselves when in reality, they are both the same. For example, when some stuff comes out of AEW that are negative, people like you will bring out things that WWE did. We all know WWE did and still do lots of screwed up stuff but so does AEW. Acknowledge it, address the problems to at least make the Wrestling industry become less and less of a circus shitshow.
> 
> Just a general wrestling fan's opinion.


To each his own, but you brought up the "what if WWE said..." and I gave you the examples.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

If you're being blocked off because of your race then it's an issue. If you didn't make the cut due to talent then you can't complain.


----------



## RapShepard

Seth Grimes said:


> 1. Long enough that I should have seen people talking about it more than once tbh. In person I've never met an English wrestling fan that mentions it, and online I can't honestly remember ever seeing it, so it must have either happened on such rare occasion, or not had much of a buzz. Either way, you hear about this from black people a shit tonne when they are pretty heavily represented already. So do you not think that a lack of English people is a problem?
> 
> 2. I would agree but this isn't non-white people wanting representation, it's black people, it's always black people. And as I've stated, you guys have a tonne of representation yet still claim this "we want MORE representation" thing whilst I can't remember seeing any representation for people from large parts of the world that isn't in North America, when it comes to North American media such as WWE/AEW. You guys look at race a lot, but you only think of terms of America, so when us in Europe see white Americans on TV, it doesn't do anything for us. The same way it does nothing for white Spanish/German/French etc to see people like Pete Dunne in NXT. Cause they feel they have no connection to him, as he's just an Englishman.


Around the time of Magnus push in TNA there was especially big talk about why there was never an English WWE champion. 

Surely you'd understand that if English wrestling fans feel that English wrestlers don't get enough representation it's on them to start that discussion. But either way "why do black Americans fans feel they get to ask for more representation if other fans don't" can seriously be a point you think is good. 



> 3. Well I've made the first point saying you're overrepresented tbh. And the second saying that there can be legit answers for why to your standards that black people might not show up in wrestling as much. But as I've said, people seen potential in Britt. It's not the same to see someone as being shitty, and having little potential, and someone who's not great, but has great potential. People have been saying Swole is the shits for the longest of times, cause no one thought she'd improve.


The point folk are missing is, you can't simply chalk Swole being shitty as an excuse when Britt was being used prominently before 



> 4. Do they? Music is quite literally a popularity contest, so when 90% of a genre is black, I'd say that's pretty good when you are 16% of the country. You think that a majority white country won't be able to produce any good talent? This is kinda funny for your argument, because you're thinking the 16% should be doing way more in wrestling, whilst the 76% of white Americans are doing too much in rap where they are the minority? How can you think those two things simultaneously, you're gonna have to either say you think white people just aren't as good, which is what you are disagreeing with for black wrestlers, or you need to prove that white people are dominating rap as well which ofc isn't gonna happen. Basketball's most famous players are legit all black though? You could argue that players such as Doncic and Jokic are underappreciated because they aren't black.


You missed the point again. The point isn't that white folk aren't talented at basketball or rapping or that America isn't predominantly white. The point is that people like to feel represented. Case in point in things not dominated by white people, white fans like to rally behind those that look like them that make it. 



> 5. But again, are they used poorly when they can't speak English? I'd say the Japanese wrestlers that come over do pretty well whilst having near 0 mic skills. This isn't a matter of Asians, it's a matter of being foreign. Cause yeah you say you're annoyed for Asians and Hispanic people, yet they are everywhere in wrestling, what about the countries in Europe that have either little or no representation, the countries in Africa, the middle east, etc etc. It's just weird seeing black people STILL complaining about more representation whilst taking up a huge portion of western media. You're gonna need to show me firstly how you're underrepresented, and then make the point for why it's down to race. Cause I don't see how race is currently doing anything but help wrestlers.


If those talents or those people feel underrepresented then they should speak out. If you as a European feel underrepresented say something. I'm certainly not going to go against you and act annoyed that you'd like to see things you can better relate to lol


----------



## Chan Hung

This thread alone has had more mentions of Big Swole than her entire career in the business.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

NathanMayberry said:


> Those reasons definitely don't have to do with talent


Looks
Ties to VP's
Ties to Adam Cole as a lure down the line
AEW Original, and I believe the first non-VP women they signed. 

They always had a big investment in Britt working. She was the favorite to win the title first before she started slow out of the gate.You can call it unfair that she always had great backing but it has nothing to do with race.


----------



## KrysRaw1

More like BIG SWOLLEN HEAD. Was she drunk when she called out her boss? I can't believe I agree with Tony but yes he is correct she can't cut it in the ring. She was piss poor shit


----------



## Geeee

the real winner in all of this is Will Hobbs, who I think is about to get a big ass push


----------



## Garty

In the beginning of the AEW women's division, wasn't it only a handful of talent they did have? From what I remember, it was, Britt, Penelope, Kong, Mel, Brandi, Riho (I may be forgetting two or three) however... not much to choose from, especially when WWE had signed dozens of female talent prior to AEW's launch.


----------



## NathanMayberry

RapShepard said:


> The problem with this question is that it inherently sets up this false narrative like mediocre white talent aren't ever allowed to thrive in entertainment. Like come on Britt was a mediocre white woman at the beginning of this, yet she was hand picked to be in that face of the division spot lol.
> 
> Like let's hone in on Jinder, if there can be mediocre white champs like Swagger and early Sheamus, why can't there be a mediocre CanIndian in Jinder.
> 
> It's just weird that folk are so against diversity unless the person in question is some damn near undeniable talent lol.


You’re a better man than me for even responding…

These guys aren’t even arguing in good faith. Just posting for gotchas


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

NathanMayberry said:


> These guys aren’t even arguing in good faith. Just posting for gotchas


Do you see no irony in talking about bad faith posting when every single post of yours on this board is trashing Tony Khan, AEW, AEW fans and the TV ratings (silence when they go up though)? Your entire persona here is irrational bad faith posting with zero objectivity or insight.

Go and take a look at your own post history then do some self-analysis.


----------



## NathanMayberry

stew mack said:


> Oh and yall arent guilty of doing something similar every time a white person defends themselves with a gun are you?


Lmaoo great response bud… definitely not unhinged 


Yo firefromthefrauds you gonna call this guy out too? Or did this pass whatever standards you’ve set? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NathanMayberry

RiverFenix said:


> You'd think he'd have learned his lesson when he pulled this same shit with a Jaguars player.


Nope


We are his property to be treated and talked to as he pleases apparently 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hayabusasc

NathanMayberry said:


> Lmaoo great response bud… definitely not unhinged
> 
> 
> Yo firefromthefrauds you gonna call this guy out too? Or did this pass whatever standards you’ve set?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Fire banned that dude. You might want to retract your childish comment.


----------



## Nakahoeup

Man she is full of shit and is causing problems just because she wants attention. That whole article sounded like a person with they head up their ass. 

First off, you are trash so get better or get lost. Wrestling does need more black representation but not forced trash that make people embarrassed to watch like The Pancake New Day or Cyrme Tyme, or "IMMA GUD R -Truff"smh, or Twerkin Titus O'Neal, or Soft ass "my sisters bullied me" Bobby Lashly.

Booker T let Vince say "*****" in front of him on live nation wide televsion for laughs and also let HHH humilate and demean him and his entire race, and STILL loses on the biggest stage. Booker T was the biggest representation of the African American male in professional wrestling at the time.

So until the WWE start getting less sellouts and more authentic black wrestlers...AEW has them beat when it comes to diversity and they only been around for a few years, so far so good. 

Im looking forward to Hoobs, Rush, Jade, and The Martin Bros careers and will be watching this group closely. None of them are stereotypes but standouts in my eyes. And besides black, white , brown, orange, pink, gold, etc don't matter what color you are......

You ain't better in the ring than Bryan Danielson or you ain't better on the mic than CM Punk iykyk.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Chan Hung said:


> This thread alone has had more mentions of Big Swole than her entire career in the business.


That’s what makes it awesome..


Needle Dick blew through years of good will on a wrestler that was going nowhere.. 

And more people hate him after that tweet than before. 

I love it see it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RapShepard

zkorejo said:


> Why are you insistent to suggest that Britt was handpicked? Why do you discredit her for coming up with ideas, finding herself, getting great at microphone while injured. Did she not work her way up? Fans see through that "handpicked" Bs and revolt against it. See Roman, Cena, Charlotte as examples.
> 
> Britt got herself over and it has been said she brought her own ideas and tried her best.
> 
> She wasn't handpicked to be the face of the division by force, she earned her spot. It's not because she was fucking the friend of Bucks. Tony also brought in Cardona, he didn't do fuckall and was let go.
> 
> As for why can't Jinder be a champion and Swagger/Sheamus can? Yes Sheamus and Swagger shouldn't have been champions that early either IMO. Bulldog should have been a champion.
> 
> I'm all for diversity. If it makes sense and isn't forced. If you have a prime Booker T on your roster and you don't prominently use him, then it's on you!. But making Jade Cargill the first TBS champion just because it pleases a market, it's unfair. In my world.. atleast.


I keep pointing at Britt because she's a shinning example that disproves "well it's just a skill issue" because she was given prominent TV time before she actually became skilled. Britt was definitely handpicked for some success. She won the first AEW women's match and was clearly set up to be one of the focal points of the division. You can be hand picked for success and still end up working hard. No denying she eventually earned that spot and proved whoever bet on her right. 

But thats what makes the diversity argument so hard. I get folk in general just want to see talent they enjoy. But stuff like Swagger or early Sheamus sorts of makes it a thing of 

"Well shit X didn't need to be prime Booker T level to get a huge push, so why does Y need to".


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> Where's the diversity here? Shouldn't these teams enforce white (Bulls) and black (Lightning) players on to their team in the name of diversity? Or are they rather focused on having the best talent available to them?
> 
> Also, people complain that Scorpio Sky is boring yet TK keeps trying and trying to get him over in different roles. Isn't that unfair on one of the hispanic or white wrestlers waiting in the wings?
> 
> View attachment 114188
> 
> 
> View attachment 114189


Here’s what you’re missing though…

The NBA and the NHL are real sports. you get to where you are based on how good you are.

Wrestling is not. The booker controls who is on tv, in what matches and for how long. The booker determines who wins and loses and who is buried and pushed. 

We can talk about meritocracy this and that and how much you agree with it, but AEW isn’t a meritocracy and neither is professional wrestling. The stereotypes it has picked up throughout the years are not without basis. 

Which is why all those comments about her not being good enough are bullshit, especially since tiny said this:





__





Tony Khan Explains Big Swole's Recent Absence From AEW TV Was Due To Crohn's Disease | Fightful News






www.fightful.com






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ProjectGargano

NathanMayberry said:


> Here’s what you’re missing though…
> 
> The NBA and the NHL are real sports. you get to where you are based on how good you are.
> 
> Wrestling is not. The booker controls who is on tv, in what matches and for how long. The booker determines who wins and loses and who is buried and pushed.
> 
> We can talk about meritocracy this and that and how much you agree with it, but AEW isn’t a meritocracy and neither is professional wrestling. The stereotypes it has picked up throughout the years are not without basis.
> 
> Which is why all those comments about her not being good enough are bullshit, especially since tiny said this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony Khan Explains Big Swole's Recent Absence From AEW TV Was Due To Crohn's Disease | Fightful News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fightful.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lmao you are just a troll! So, you don´t have to be good to succeed in Pro Wrestling? AEW isn´t Pro Wrestling? You are trolling us and the mods really hard.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Swole can be a below average talent with no creativity and have a valid point about a lack a diversity. At minimum, she is right that AEW struggling to connect to the black audience. Her example about her daughter not seeing herself in the wrestlers in AEW is a fair take. Khan could easily have a meeting with the talent and ask what they can do to reach that audience. Swole, Lio Rush, Shawn Dean and Lee Moriarty are all wrestler who are passionate about representation and they could at least add some potential suggestions.

That said, Swole may not have been the best fit for AEW regardless because she admitted to not being a creative person and that she needs more structure. That doesn't mean her criticisms aren't valid though. Both can be true.

My biggest issue with TK's response is that it just wasn't needed. You can let others change that narrative for you by talking about their experiences. Hobbs and Shawn Dean did exactly that. Khan trying to change the narrative to "she wasn't a good wrestler" is just a personal attack and wasn't proportional to how Swole came across. Swole didn't attack the company or call them racist. She said they could do better. In fact, she even said that they have made strides more recently.

Another part that bothers me is that AEW has an opportunity to adjust the narrative in the coming months. Keith Lee, Ember Moon/Athena, Shane Strickland, Jonathan Gresham, Mia Yim, Trisha Adora, Willow Nightingale, and Shane Taylor Productions. These are all talented free agents that could have strong roles on Dynamite. Keith Lee can be a main eventer, Shane Strickland can be a upper mid-carder and any of the women could add good depth to that division. These talents might be having 2nd thoughts about signing with AEW. It isn't just about signing good diverse talent though, you have to be open to their ideas and be willing to go outside your comfort zone from time to time.

I have never been shy in saying how much I enjoy AEW and I have said before that I think Khan has gotten some underserved hate, but he needs to relax on Twitter and be open to the discussion Swole is talking about. I was always willing to call out WWE when they had diversity issues for a long time and I will call it out now.


----------



## RoganJosh

NathanMayberry said:


> That’s what makes it awesome..
> 
> 
> Needle Dick blew through years of good will on a wrestler that was going nowhere..
> 
> And more people hate him after that tweet than before.
> 
> I love it see it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nobody hates him, only you seem to have some sort of obsession with him. Have you looked up leaked nude photos of him? You have an unhealthy interest in his sausage.


----------



## NathanMayberry

ProjectGargano said:


> Lmao you are just a troll! So, you don´t have to be good to succeed in Pro Wrestling? AEW isn´t Pro Wrestling? You are trolling us and the mods really hard.


See I get that you’re ESL, but maybe next time try reading a post again so that you understand what is being said before responding.

Pro wrestling has never been a meritocracy and no you don’t have to be good at wrestling to succeed in it. What about that is foreign to you?

I’m not even sure where you found the AEW isn’t pro wrestling bit, so I’ll ignore that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 45banshee

To start the year better and for showcasing diversity talent... Holy DAMN Shida


----------



## shandcraig

35 pages? This girl has got more attention than rampage 🤣


----------



## zkorejo

RapShepard said:


> I keep pointing at Britt because she's a shinning example that disproves "well it's just a skill issue" because she was given prominent TV time before she actually became skilled. Britt was definitely handpicked for some success. She won the first AEW women's match and was clearly set up to be one of the focal points of the division. You can be hand picked for success and still end up working hard. No denying she eventually earned that spot and proved whoever bet on her right.
> 
> But thats what makes the diversity argument so hard. I get folk in general just want to see talent they enjoy. But stuff like Swagger or early Sheamus sorts of makes it a thing of
> 
> "Well shit X didn't need to be prime Booker T level to get a huge push, so why does Y need to".


I personally think one can be used in a prominent position even when they aren't holding a title belt. MJF is prominent, he has never won a single title in AEW. I honestly think Dante has a bright future ahead of him. Hobbs, I think will be a midcard muscle for a long time. If they can get Keith Lee I can see him become a prominent top guy in AEW and a definite future world champion if all goes well. 

Yes Brit probably was handpicked, but honestly I don't think she was given any extra treatments. Had she not gotten better with her character, she probably would have dropped down too. I remember Allie, Riho, Shida, Nyla and Swole all getting their fair share of time. Swole of all people even beat her. And never returned the favors. 

Had the other girls tried to get more stuff in, they probably would have gotten the stage too. If Swole's complaint was "they didn't let me do stuff I wanted to do to get over" I would have been all ears. It's clear she didn't try as hard as Britt. 

It's not like anyone is setting any limits for them at aew. Britt and Rosa wanted to do a lights out, they let them and it was a success. Now Allie, Ford, Tay and Jay wanted to do a street fight, they let them too. And they also knocked it out of the park. So it's not like there's any special treatment for certain wrestlers and speedbumps for other, ala WWE.

I agree most people have their bias towards their favorites. But my favorites have always been based on their wrestling skills/character. I have no horse in this game or any game. I don't consider anyone "my people" so I guess it helps me stay neutral. 

But in AEW so far, everyone with prominent positions have either earned it or are given due to their star status. Both of which make sense to me. In WWE, sure.. I wouldn't mind it that much tbh. Because the titles are used as props there.


----------



## Sad Panda

Prized Fighter said:


> Swole can be a below average talent with no creativity and have a valid point about a lack a diversity. At minimum, she is right that AEW struggling to connect to the black audience. Her example about her daughter not seeing herself in the wrestlers in AEW is a fair take. Khan could easily have a meeting with the talent and ask what they can do to reach that audience. Swole, Lio Rush, Shawn Dean and Lee Moriarty are all wrestler who are passionate about representation and they could at least add some potential suggestions.
> 
> That said, Swole may not have been the best fit for AEW regardless because she admitted to not being a creative person and that she needs more structure. That doesn't mean her criticisms aren't valid though. Both can be true.
> 
> My biggest issue with TK's response is that it just wasn't needed. You can let others change that narrative for you by talking about their experiences. Hobbs and Shawn Dean did exactly that. Khan trying to change the narrative to "she wasn't a good wrestler" is just a personal attack and wasn't proportional to how Swole came across. Swole didn't attack the company or call them racist. She said they could do better. In fact, she even said that they have made strides more recently.
> 
> Another part that bothers me is that AEW has an opportunity to adjust the narrative in the coming months. Keith Lee, Ember Moon/Athena, Shane Strickland, Jonathan Gresham, Mia Yim, Trisha Adora, Willow Nightingale, and Shane Taylor Productions. These are all talented free agents that could have strong roles on Dynamite. Keith Lee can be a main eventer, Shane Strickland can be a upper mid-carder and any of the women could add good depth to that division. These talents might be having 2nd thoughts about signing with AEW. It isn't just about signing good diverse talent though, you have to be open to their ideas and be willing to go outside your comfort zone from time to time.
> 
> I have never been shy in saying how much I enjoy AEW and I have said before that I think Khan has gotten some underserved hate, but he needs to relax on Twitter and be open to the discussion Swole is talking about. I was always willing to call out WWE when they had diversity issues for a long time and I will call it out now.


Well said.


----------



## NathanMayberry

RoganJosh said:


> Nobody hates him,


Correction: nobody in your wrestling bubble hates him. 

I can assure you there are no shortage of Jaguars and Fulham FC fans that absolutely despise him and want nothing more than for him and especially his father to fuck off.

They’re the ones who feed me most of my material. Don’t believe me? Go look at the Jaguars subreddit right now, pay attention to its logo. 




> in his sausage.


Or lack thereof 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Seth Grimes

RapShepard said:


> Around the time of Magnus push in TNA there was especially big talk about why there was never an English WWE champion.
> 
> Surely you'd understand that if English wrestling fans feel that English wrestlers don't get enough representation it's on them to start that discussion. But either way "why do black Americans fans feel they get to ask for more representation if other fans don't" can seriously be a point you think is good.
> 
> 
> 
> The point folk are missing is, you can't simply chalk Swole being shitty as an excuse when Britt was being used prominently before
> 
> 
> 
> You missed the point again. The point isn't that white folk aren't talented at basketball or rapping or that America isn't predominantly white. The point is that people like to feel represented. Case in point in things not dominated by white people, white fans like to rally behind those that look like them that make it.
> 
> 
> If those talents or those people feel underrepresented then they should speak out. If you as a European feel underrepresented say something. I'm certainly not going to go against you and act annoyed that you'd like to see things you can better relate to lol


Again, I think there's a difference from the rare occasion of people asking about English wrestlers, and there being almost a monthly thread on here, or a weekly talk on Twitter about black representation. That's the thing, we don't want it? We don't really see the need to force English wrestlers into spots just because we share an identity with them. And it was more of a point that black people already are everywhere, why do you think you need to have more spaces on tv? You need to show me how you're actually being underrepresented, and then show me how that's down to skin colour, to get me on board with you.

Well you can, because as I said, people seen potential in Britt, and none in Swole. It's about potential, not race.

Yeah and I'm disagreeing with that point, I don't see white people rallying around Doncic and Jokic, because like I said, all the most famous basketballers are black. So we clearly aren't rallying around them, even despite Jokic being arguably the best in NBA last year. Again, music is a popularity contest, if white people were rallying around white people, then rap would be 80% white, not black. It's not like any black people are making it despite white people, they are making it because of them. 

Yeah but the difference here is that you could make arguments for the English being underrepresented, whereas I haven't seen a good one for black people. So yeah people can speak out, but then people can also reply to it and say if they think it's wrong.


----------



## Dizzie

NathanMayberry said:


> Or maybe its from the CEO of AEW acting like an *autistic spaz?*
> 
> Did Lio Rush, dislike AEW and Tiny Khan too?


Imagine trying act offended about diversity and then posting things like this, very classy


----------



## 3venflow

I will miss Swole's outstanding ability... to drag opponents down to previously unseen levels.


----------



## RapShepard

zkorejo said:


> I personally think one can be used in a prominent position even when they aren't holding a title belt. MJF is prominent, he has never won a single title in AEW. I honestly think Dante has a bright future ahead of him. Hobbs, I think will be a midcard muscle for a long time. If they can get Keith Lee I can see him become a prominent top guy in AEW and a definite future world champion if all goes well.
> 
> Yes Brit probably was handpicked, but honestly I don't think she was given any extra treatments. Had she not gotten better with her character, she probably would have dropped down too. I remember Allie, Riho, Shida, Nyla and Swole all getting their fair share of time.
> 
> Had the other girls tried to get more stuff in, they probably would have gotten the stage too. If Swole's complaint was "they didn't let me do stuff I wanted to do to get over" I would have been all ears. It's clear she didn't try as hard as Britt.
> 
> It's not like anyone is setting any limits for them at aew. Britt and Rosa wanted to do a lights out, they let them and it was a success. Now Allie, Ford, Tay and Jay wanted to do a street fight, they let them too.
> 
> I agree most people have their bias towards their favorites. But my favorites have always been based on their wrestling skills/character. I have no horse in this game or any game. I don't consider anyone "my people" so I guess it helps me stay neutral.
> 
> But in AEW so far, everyone with prominent positions have either earned it or are given due to their star status. Both of which make sense to me. In WWE, sure.. I wouldn't mind it that much tbh. Because the titles are used as props there.


Definitely agree you don't need to be a title holder to have significance. I honestly don't see much in Dante lol, he's athletic but that's it. Maybe it's overly judging a young talent though. Keith should hopefully he a top tier guy if brought in. Though I wonder if he can crack that big man ceiling there seems to be.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Seems Triggered Tiny is really unhinged today.. he released the hounds after AEWBotches again






__





Loading…






pbs.twimg.com






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr. Speed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Here you go you filthy animals - something to sink your teeth into for the new year
> 
> Swole has spoken
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big Swole Says Lack Of Diversity And Structure Led To Her Leaving AEW, Tony Khan Responds | Fightful News
> 
> 
> Big Swole discusses her AEW departure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fightful.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Swole continued, explaining how her daughter helped her recognize even more that there was a lack of representation in AEW.
> 
> "I knew something was up when my daughter, who loves watching wrestling, she would watch AEW all the time and seldomly watch WWE. She's not a big fan unless dad [Cedric Alexander] was on TV, which stopped happening after they botched the Hurt Business. She would say, 'Mommy, there is nobody that looks like me on AEW. There's nobody that looks like daddy.' Then she started watching WWE because she saw Bianca and Big E. She saw herself represented. If that wasn't a 'click.' 'You are absolutely right. I don't have an explanation.' It's 2021. Why are people saying, 'it'll take three years for AEW to have a black champ'? This is a scripted sport. It should not take that long if you have been watching WWE for 50+ years and you know what not to do," she said._


_"Mommy, why doesn't AEW have any Black wrestlers on top to lose the World title in 9 seconds??? Heck I'd even settle for a 26 second loss! Why can't AEW treat their Black wrestlers as good as Vince does? WWE was so fair keeping Big E, Xavier, and Kofi on the opening card year after year after year until the fans forced them to push them and change their own gimmicks. AEW needs to copy WWE more.

And while we're at it Mommy, why won't AEW give their wrestlers shitty corny-ass fake-ass scripts to read too?! I can't stand it when wrestlers sound like actual real people. WWE is the best wrestling---er i mean, best sports entertainment around!"_


----------



## zkorejo

RapShepard said:


> Definitely agree you don't need to be a title holder to have significance. I honestly don't see much in Dante lol, he's athletic but that's it. Maybe it's overly judging a young talent though. Keith should hopefully he a top tier guy if brought in. Though I wonder if he can crack that big man ceiling there seems to be.


I watched Darby vs Keith Lee on yt when Keith was in NXT and everyone was singing his praises. I loved it. Keith Lee Royal rumble pop was huge. The guy has it. He can go in the ring. Can talk. Has a following. And to top it all off he seems like a genuinely nice guy. 

If Lee is as good as he has been pre WWE main roster. I'm sure they will accommodate him to be featured prominently and portray his character as he would like to. And he seems talented/smart enough to make it work for himself.


----------



## RapShepard

Seth Grimes said:


> Yeah and I'm disagreeing with that point, I don't see white people rallying around Doncic and Jokic, because like I said, all the most famous basketballers are black. So we clearly aren't rallying around them, even despite Jokic being arguably the best in NBA last year. Again, music is a popularity contest, if white people were rallying around white people, then rap would be 80% white, not black. It's not like any black people are making it despite white people, they are making it because of them.


I seriously don't get how you're having such problems understanding the point. 

Rap is an art form predominantly done by black Americans

White Americans do like and consume the art form 

White rappers can offer extra relatability to white American fans

If you can't get it then idk


----------



## NathanMayberry

Dizzie said:


> Imagine trying act offended about diversity and then posting things like this, very classy


Lmao don’t get it twisted.

The only one who took offence was tiny who spazzed out on Twitter because he had an ex employee that wasn’t a sycophant. 

Calling him out and making sure as many people as possible see it, is what is being done here. Especially, with Black History Month being a month away and how much pandering AEW loves to do. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks

I think it's low for Tony Khan to shit on her in ring career. As an executive that's low. I don't even think it's true. Big Swole was fine in the ring. She wasn't anything special but she was ok. Her problem was that she couldn't really connect with the audience and her over the top personality started to wear thin on the fans.


----------



## Crazy_Mo_Fo

This whole thread started because someone is acting in bad faith cause they're jealous Jade is getting the push she didn't.


----------



## RapShepard

zkorejo said:


> I watched Darby vs Keith Lee on yt when Keith was in NXT and everyone was singing his praises. I loved it. Keith Lee Royal rumble pop was huge. The guy has it. He can go in the ring. Can talk. Has a following. And to top it all off he seems like a genuinely nice guy.
> 
> If Lee is as good as he has been pre WWE main roster. I'm sure they will accommodate him to be featured prominently and portray his character as he would like to. And he seems talented/smart enough to make it work for himself.


The drama of how he figures out how to keep all these talent happy is going to continue to ramp up as more come in. But not enough spots is a much better issue than not enough good talent lol


----------



## WrestleFAQ

Big Swole and Lio Rush are both what we call 'locker room cancers.' They bring this sort of life-draining negative drama with them wherever they go, which is why they never last and their careers remain stuck in nowhere.

Swole rightfully got sent her walking papers. I say send Lio packing, too. Sure, he's a solid talent -- 50,000x more talented than awful Swole -- but solid talents are a dime a dozen these days, and most aren't unstable trolls. There is no positive return on investment on someone with Lio Rush's whiny always-a-victim mindset. Zero. He's a sunk cost from the moment he signs his contract.

Tony Khan needs to man up right now and tell the world Lio Rush has been terminated. Let the entire locker room know he's the boss and he won't suffer fools lightly. Fire Rush and immediately give his push to Sean Dean, someone who might actually have the bright future the 4'8" manchild Rush never will.


----------



## Thomazbr

NathanMayberry said:


> Correction: nobody in your wrestling bubble hates him.
> 
> I can assure you there are no shortage of Jaguars and Fulham FC fans that absolutely despise him and want nothing more than for him and especially his father to fuck off.
> 
> They’re the ones who feed me most of my material. Don’t believe me? Go look at the Jaguars subreddit right now, pay attention to its logo.
> 
> 
> 
> Or lack thereof
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Shahid is liked by Fulham tbh


----------



## Seth Grimes

RapShepard said:


> I seriously don't get how you're having such problems understanding the point.
> 
> Rap is an art form predominantly done by black Americans
> 
> White Americans do like and consume the art form
> 
> White rappers can offer extra relatability to white American fans
> 
> If you can't get it then idk


And a reply to all my other points?

I'm not sure what argument here is then? You're saying white people relate to white rappers, yet they still choose to listen to black rappers far more?


----------



## Cydius

The Legit Lioness said:


> *This dumb fuck really doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376*





The Legit Lioness said:


> *The point everyone keeps missing:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477078839901794305
> Address the criticisms, don't attack the person presenting the criticisms. It's that simple. This shouldn't have to be explained to a billionaire executive or anyone in any kind of office job.*



This stunt has been done by a professional. Don't try this at home.


----------



## Nakahoeup

Mr. Speed said:


> _"Mommy, why doesn't AEW have any Black wrestlers on top to lose the World title in 9 seconds??? Heck I'd even settle for a 26 second loss! Why can't AEW treat their Black wrestlers as good as Vince does? WWE was so fair keeping Big E, Xavier, and Kofi on the opening card year after year after year until the fans forced them to push them and change their own gimmicks. AEW needs to copy WWE more.
> 
> And while we're at it Mommy, why won't AEW give their wrestlers shitty corny-ass fake-ass scripts to read too?! I can't stand it when wrestlers sound like actual real people. WWE is the best wrestling---er i mean, best sports entertainment around!"_


Man you can see through the bullshit. Congrats


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks

Prized Fighter said:


> Swole can be a below average talent with no creativity and have a valid point about a lack a diversity. At minimum, she is right that AEW struggling to connect to the black audience. Her example about her daughter not seeing herself in the wrestlers in AEW is a fair take. Khan could easily have a meeting with the talent and ask what they can do to reach that audience. Swole, Lio Rush, Shawn Dean and Lee Moriarty are all wrestler who are passionate about representation and they could at least add some potential suggestions.
> 
> That said, Swole may not have been the best fit for AEW regardless because she admitted to not being a creative person and that she needs more structure. That doesn't mean her criticisms aren't valid though. Both can be true.
> 
> My biggest issue with TK's response is that it just wasn't needed. You can let others change that narrative for you by talking about their experiences. Hobbs and Shawn Dean did exactly that. Khan trying to change the narrative to "she wasn't a good wrestler" is just a personal attack and wasn't proportional to how Swole came across. Swole didn't attack the company or call them racist. She said they could do better. In fact, she even said that they have made strides more recently.
> 
> Another part that bothers me is that AEW has an opportunity to adjust the narrative in the coming months. Keith Lee, Ember Moon/Athena, Shane Strickland, Jonathan Gresham, Mia Yim, Trisha Adora, Willow Nightingale, and Shane Taylor Productions. These are all talented free agents that could have strong roles on Dynamite. Keith Lee can be a main eventer, Shane Strickland can be a upper mid-carder and any of the women could add good depth to that division. These talents might be having 2nd thoughts about signing with AEW. It isn't just about signing good diverse talent though, you have to be open to their ideas and be willing to go outside your comfort zone from time to time.
> 
> I have never been shy in saying how much I enjoy AEW and I have said before that I think Khan has gotten some underserved hate, but he needs to relax on Twitter and be open to the discussion Swole is talking about. I was always willing to call out WWE when they had diversity issues for a long time and I will call it out now.


Tony Khan attacking her in ring abilities is uncalled for and unprofessional. He's the top executive and owner of the second biggest wrestling promotion. You just can't say shit like that. Its damaging. Also I just don't think it's true. Swole wasn't terrible she just didn't connect. She's a decent wrestler. Its hypocritical also because they have worse wrestlers than Swole signed to AEW but I won't even call them out. You know who they are.


----------



## Geeee

I gotta say, I'm definitely out of my depth once the term "microaggressions" starts getting thrown around


----------



## RapShepard

Seth Grimes said:


> And a reply to all my other points?
> 
> I'm not sure what argument here is then? You're saying white people relate to white rappers, yet they still choose to listen to black rappers far more?


Holy fuck this is insane.

People like to see themselves represented in things

Even with white people being the majority in this country, they still enjoy seeing themselves be successful in the fields they don't dominate like rap or basketball

I'm seriously not understanding where you get lost in that. The point is be it the majority or minority people like to feel represented.


----------



## Thomazbr

Updated Battle Lines.


----------



## Nakahoeup

WrestleFAQ said:


> Big Swole and Lio Rush are both what we call 'locker room cancers.' They bring this sort of life-draining negative drama with them wherever they go, which is why they never last and their careers remain stuck in nowhere.
> 
> Swole rightfully got sent her walking papers. I say send Lio packing, too. Sure, he's a solid talent -- 50,000x more talented than awful Swole -- but solid talents are a dime a dozen these days, and most aren't unstable trolls. There is no positive return on investment on someone with Lio Rush's whiny always-a-victim mindset. Zero. He's a sunk cost from the moment he signs his contract.
> 
> Tony Khan needs to man up right now and tell the world Lio Rush has been terminated. Let the entire locker room know he's the boss and he won't suffer fools lightly. Fire Rush and immediately give his push to Sean Dean, someone who might actually have the bright future the 4'8" manchild Rush never will.


Nah, Lio Rush has alot of potenial. He's got an ego but thats a good thing when you can back it up and this guy can. He still really young too, the same age as MJF and has had more success so far, so I wouldn't get rid of him at all. The chick can scram.


----------



## Klitschko

RapShepard said:


> Definitely agree you don't need to be a title holder to have significance. I honestly don't see much in Dante lol, he's athletic but that's it. Maybe it's overly judging a young talent though. Keith should hopefully he a top tier guy if brought in. Though I wonder if he can crack that big man ceiling there seems to be.


I'm usually the first to say "it's not racism, this wrestler just sucks" but yea AEW does have a bit of a problem with representation of Black wrestlers in prominent roles. Like someone mentioned previously, other than Big Swole not a single black person has had a singles match on one of AEW's ppv's I believe. 

There is nobody that is black that's being groomed to be a main eventer eventually.


----------



## One Shed

Nakahoeup said:


> Nah, Lio Rush has alot of potenial. He's got an ego but thats a good thing when you can back it up and this guy can. He still really young too, the same age as MJF and has had more success so far, so I wouldn't get rid of him at all. The chick can scram.


He is great as a manager, but as a wrestler his ceiling is Mayor of Munchkinland.


----------



## DUD

Thomazbr said:


> Updated Battle Lines.
> View attachment 114198


Hats off to whoever made Lio so small.


----------



## One Shed

Klitschko said:


> I'm usually the first to say "it's not racism, this wrestler just sucks" but yea AEW does have a bit of a problem with representation of Black wrestlers in prominent roles. Like someone mentioned previously, other than Big Swole not a single black person has had a singles match on one of AEW's ppv's I believe.
> 
> There is nobody that is black that's being groomed to be a main eventer eventually.


Jay Lethal has now been added to the roster again to help with this. Smiling Jay Lethal also has a better singles record than Angry Face Jay Lethal:


----------



## RapShepard

Klitschko said:


> I'm usually the first to say "it's not racism, this wrestler just sucks" but yea AEW does have a bit of a problem with representation of Black wrestlers in prominent roles. Like someone mentioned previously, other than Big Swole not a single black person has had a singles match on one of AEW's ppv's I believe.
> 
> There is nobody that is black that's being groomed to be a main eventer eventually.


Yeah but hopefully down the road shortly a Hobbs is given more room to build towards that status. I'd actually like to see them sign Darius Lockhart full-time he feels ready to be a TNT type player. Has a character and can work.


----------



## Mr. Speed

It's simply not accurate to say AEW isn't diverse. AEW has done a great job in that regard. Between Tony Khan himself, Brandi Rhodes, Jade Cargill, Lio Rush, Mercedes Martinez, Mark Henry, Penta, Rey Fenix, Guevarra, Tay Conti, Santana, Ortiz, Eddie Kingston, Hobbs, Shida, Nyla Rose, Thunder Rosa, Andrade, Vickie Guerrero, and many more we are seeing POC in practically every segment. so that's debunked.

If by "diversity" she actually means "African-American" then Brandi Rhodes, Hobbs, Jade Cargill, Sonny Kiss, Lio Rush, Red Velvet, Mark Henry, Jay Lethal, the Acclaimed, etc, plus dozens of wrestlers from Dark and Elevation say different. ALL GETTING PUSHED

If she wants to point the finger at Black wrestlers on top, everyone does realize that if any members of the New Day were available, Khan would sign them and match them against the ELITE immediately right? WWE has the majority of capable Black wrestlers under contract already, having them get squashed to Brock Lesnar and Becky Lynch while everyone else languishes in NXT, but gives them the right to claim to shareholders how "diverse" they are. Other than that, AEW's top guys are the ELITE, who are all white, and also entered AEW as the biggest draws in wrestling. CM Punk and Bryan Danielson are both white, and just happen to be the biggest name free agents to come along in a decade. Chris Jericho is one of the biggest names of all time. And Brian Cage is sitting at home waiting for that white favoritism Tony Khan supposedly possesses (according to swole) There's really nothing more that can be done at this point.

Let's get down to it. Big Swole was the shits. I had heard the name before she debuted and liked her general vibe when she showed up in such a nice spot, but she was crappy in the ring, too small to be a real threat, could've give convincing promos, and was all around disappointing. When Khan says she wasn't a good wrestler, he's not only being accurate, but he's expressing his view and right as the Booker and Owner of the dang company. 

What Big Swole is doing now is something far more sinister. She's basically ranking POC. And in her mind, him being Pakistani means nothing. The wealth of Mexican, Puerto Ricans, and other Latinos being in AEW means nothing. Not to mention the steady flow of Japanese wrestlers who are either here full time or pass through mean nothing. Nyla Rose being Native-American means nothing. Tay Conti being Brazilian means nothing. Need I go on? Big Swole's point of view is that POC who aren't Black, basically don't count when we're assessing "diversity".

Hey listen, we all get mad when things don't work out how we hoped they would, and Big Swole didn't work out in AEW, and WWE never wanted her. It explains why she said what she said. It's all very frustrating for her in trying to make sense of why it didn't work. I sympathize. But the bottom line is all of her accusations ARE WRONG.


----------



## RapShepard

Two Sheds said:


> Jay Lethal has now been added to the roster again to help with this. Smiling Jay Lethal also has a better singles record than Angry Face Jay Lethal:
> 
> View attachment 114200


That's funnier than it has any right to be lol


----------



## Nakahoeup

Two Sheds said:


> He is great as a manager, but as a wrestler his ceiling is Mayor of Munchkinland.


Yeah he is tiny but it kinda works for him to me because he wrestles like he's tiny. He has alot of charisma and is good on the mic. He can be a draw to the black audience and as a manager he can manage a guy like Hobbs, they would make a great pair IMO. Valuable asset.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Thomazbr said:


> Shahid is liked by Fulham tbh


I mean don’t take my word for it… this is as professional a way of saying please fuck off as possible 







The Fulham FC fans who go to the game aren’t as courteous. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## One Shed

Nakahoeup said:


> Yeah he is tiny but it kinda works for him to me because he wrestles like he's tiny. He has alot of charisma and is good on the mic. He can be a draw to the black audience and as a manager he can manage a guy like Hobbs, they would make a great pair IMO. Valuable asset.


I agree that he is a great talker/manager. He was at his best when he managed Lashley.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Forum Dud said:


> Hats off to whoever made Lio so small.


They made him hook sized 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Geeee

I think the solution to all of this is to make Brandi the women's champion.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> AEW first episode was October 2nd 2019 the Jericho cruise was January 20th 2020. That's 4th over 4th months


It’s actually not quite 4 months.

But the point remains: Swole was put in a high profile feud, allowed to do storylines and sports entertainment segments opposite Britt Baker, and eventually winning that feud.

Is it Tony’s fault that she still fell flat..? And quit skirting around the truth: she’s mad that Jade is bigger, better looking, and getting the push that she felt she deserved. Hence - whining about inequality then claiming that the diversity that exists is just a bunch of Uncle Tom’s playing nice to stay in the big house.


----------



## Gibbs0102

RapShepard said:


> AEW first episode was October 2nd 2019 the Jericho cruise was January 20th 2020. That's 4th over 4th monthsNotice the 3 males by and large have won fuck all of note when they're actually on TV. Yes backing up the diversity Tony claimed they'd have requires more than just placing folk on TV.


I was replying to someone who was basically saying only white people who are still green to the business have been given a chance to grow on tv. But that is not the case what so ever look at will Hobbs post he seems to think he has been given a fair shot so I’ll take his word for it.


----------



## WrestleFAQ

Thomazbr said:


> Updated Battle Lines.
> View attachment 114198


I did a quick skim over who all liked Tony's Tweet and saw Brian Pillman, Jr. He should be on there.


----------



## Thomazbr

NathanMayberry said:


> I mean don’t take my word for it… this is as professional a way of saying please fuck off as possible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Fulham FC fans who go to the game aren’t as courteous.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Notice that's Tony and not Shahid


----------



## NathanMayberry

Thomazbr said:


> Notice that's Tony and not Shahid


Who do you think management is referring to? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Incidentally - here are the women's stats so far for 2021
> 
> View attachment 114174
> 
> 
> Jade being the best in combination of 'featured TV matches' and 'W/L'
> 
> the rest of the women basically booked the same - Britt, Hikaru similar
> 
> Penelope, Red Velvet, Bunny all similar
> 
> the only one who seems to have gone a bit jobber is Nyla - heavily featured with a low 2021 W / L record
> 
> and Anna & Tay is 50/50 booking


TONY KHAN DOESNT LIKE BLONDE HAIR BLUE EYED WHITE GIRLS CONFIRMED! TELL EM BUNNY!


----------



## Alright_Mate

Only just seen this thread, clearly an interesting debate though, 37 pages 

Going off the first couple of pages, the AEW defendants quickly jump on the diversity quotes, yet they don’t point out the quotes where she actually makes good points.

“There are more people coming in, but you don’t have enough product for all these people”.

She actually makes an excellent point there, and is totally bang on the money.

AEW’s roster is far too bloated, so many wrestlers over time get the odd TV appearance, then they got shoved back to Dark or Elevation. In terms of Women, you saw it with Penelope Ford and Tay Conti especially, they had title matches, then just got shoved back on Dark, because TK had no idea on what to do with them.

In terms of diversity, like others in this thread, I don’t agree with her on that. AEW doesn’t have a black champion yet, because the wrestlers they have of that culture, in terms of talent are not champion worthy. AEW isn’t going to put a title on Lee Moriarty for instance, just for the sake of it, because he is of black heritage.

WWE have put titles on Big E, Bobby Lashley & Bianca Belair over the past year for a reason, because they are Champion material. AEW don’t have any Wrestlers of black heritage that are Champion material, simple.


----------



## Thomazbr

Alright_Mate said:


> Only just seen this thread, clearly an interesting debate though, 37 pages
> 
> Going off the first couple of pages, the AEW defendants quickly jump on the diversity quotes, yet they don’t point out the quotes where she actually makes good points.
> 
> “There are more people coming in, but you don’t have enough product for all these people”.
> 
> She actually makes an excellent point there, and is totally bang on the money.
> 
> AEW’s roster is far too bloated, so many wrestlers over time get the odd TV appearance, then they got shoved back to Dark or Elevation. *In terms of Women, you saw it with Penelope Ford and Tay Conti especially, they had title matches, then just got shoved back on Dark, because TK had no idea on what to do with them*.
> 
> In terms of diversity, like others in this thread, I don’t agree with her on that. AEW doesn’t have a black champion yet, because the wrestlers they have of that culture, in terms of talent are not champion worthy. AEW isn’t going to put a title on Lee Moriarty for instance, just for the sake of it, because he is of black heritage.
> 
> WWE have put titles on Big E, Bobby Lashley & Bianca Belair over the past year for a reason, because they are Champion material. AEW don’t have any Wrestlers of black heritage that are Champion material, simple.


That was certainly not the impression I had with Tay and Penelope


----------



## Sbatenney

Garty said:


> Bret screwed Bret. Owen Hart was at fault for his own death. Warrior was full of steroids, an idiot and very demanding. CM Punk was a headache to deal with.
> 
> All things said by WWE.


You have just proved my point, whenever WWE says shit, people attack them but when TK has said stupid shit people like you go on with your "WHAT ABOUT THE WWE????" even when it has nothing to do with it. I never said WWE didn't say stupid shit, I said compare how twitter and the IWC would react if Vince or Stephanie came out and said on twitter that someone wasn't good enough to how people are trying to defend Tony Khan for doing it.

Khan fucked up, he should have stayed quiet and moved on instead he has proven himself to be a liar either when he called her a great wrestler in March or in that tweet. He has came across as a spoiled brat here and pulled the "I have black friends" card for someone bring up a decent point.


----------



## shandcraig

RapShepard said:


> Yeah but hopefully down the road shortly a Hobbs is given more room to build towards that status. I'd actually like to see them sign Darius Lockhart full-time he feels ready to be a TNT type player. Has a character and can work.



Unfortunately Hobbs is going to be another flop just like plenty of other flop big dudes in aew. That my friend will have nothing to do with race


----------



## kingfunkel

"lack of diversity led to leaving the company"

Nope, you were trash and weren't needed. You served your purpose to plug gaps while AEW recruited a roster. Now the roster is big enough, the gap filling deadweight will be dropped.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> I don't think folk truly mean for it to come off that way. But it's always weird how folk can't seem to understand that
> 
> 1. Entertainment wise folk like to see themselves as not just participants, but as folk in prominent roles.
> 
> 2. When it comes to mentions of lack of diversity defaulting to "well obviously it's just a skills issue" because then that paints the false picture that in entertainment things are solely done on merit.


Representation matters, but it is a bigger disservice to just put a shitty, uninteresting character in such a prominent role due to their skin color.

Why?

Because it is best to fall on your face in the comfort of your own home than walking down the aisle of your wedding day.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> And I'd agree to degree. But even she didn't get as much time on actual TV as green Britt was. Green Britt was getting more TV time than Riho, Nyla, and Crowd Member Shida.
> 
> I guess the best way to explain what I think most folk in some agreeance with Swole would like "well they're not already Elite" should stop being used as an excuse to not push more diverse talent. Hangman wasn't ready to be champion in folks eyes coming into year one. But they kept him in a prominent role low and behold now he's ready. Private Party weren't ready to be a top tag team year one, but imagine if they had been more consistently used on TV. Maybe they fucking flop and we're like send them to hang with Luther, of maybe they slowly got better and are the type of team were saying should be being prepped for a tag title run.


Too late to respond to this now you guys are 38 pages deep LOL (unless y'all have been talking about Britt/Jade compared to Swole the whole time) you're probably done talking about it and I aint reading all these damn pages haha



La Parka said:


> Tony Khan gotta get off twitter.
> 
> This went south very quickly.
> 
> it would be much more entertaining if you responded drunk.


Kinda wish I did lol but had a party going


----------



## Ram Jam

Klitschko said:


> I'm usually the first to say "it's not racism, this wrestler just sucks" but yea AEW does have a bit of a problem with representation of Black wrestlers in prominent roles. Like someone mentioned previously, other than Big Swole not a single black person has had a singles match on one of AEW's ppv's I believe.
> 
> There is nobody that is black that's being groomed to be a main eventer eventually.


I think I get it now, push all black wrestlers even if they're not as good as the current talent?


----------



## RoganJosh

NathanMayberry said:


> I mean don’t take my word for it… this is as professional a way of saying please fuck off as possible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Fulham FC fans who go to the game aren’t as courteous.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You really think English football fans' opinions matter? They're as racist as they come especially in English football. They love you when you're winning but the racial slurs come out out as soon as you put a foot wrong. You sound like a racist, no wonder you hate on TK for no apparent reason.


----------



## bozojeff

kingfunkel said:


> "lack of diversity led to leaving the company"
> 
> Nope, you were trash and weren't needed. You served your purpose to plug gaps while AEW recruited a roster. Now the roster is big enough, the gap filling deadweight will be dropped. It's not hard to work out. Since she's black, it has to be a race thing! Trying to be the cm punk of the black wrestling world
> 
> Can't wait till Sunny kiss gets the boot. Guess that'll be a race thing too... Nothing to do with the fact he/she/it is black and gay/straight/whatever the fuck it is. Fuck big swole!


Sonny Kiss is gonna be a good one. Have you seen their fucking pronouns? What an attention seeking douchecanoe


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Sure, now explain why Britt got more TV time than the first 3 champions even when she wasn't exactly exuding talent?


Because as was stated here many times, she was doing the work to keep things interesting, coming with stories, and able to cut a promo. Rico and Shida were on tv all the time, but the inability to cut a promo hurt them. Sucks, but it is is what it is.

More than anything, Britt was allowed to suck and work on her craft, because the guys backstage knew her through Cole already and were willing to give her more room to learn to fall and get back up.

And even with that, had she failed at being the heel that Kenny suggested to her, then she’d likely be on Dark.


----------



## Geeee

shandcraig said:


> Unfortunately Hobbs is going to be another flop just like plenty of other flop big dudes in aew. That my friend will have nothing to do with race


I think Hobbs has something. For one, he can do the "workrate" shit that is at the top of the card in AEW. Also, he has a compelling IRL backstory where he is wrestling to honor the memory of his brother who died in a gang shooting.


----------



## NathanMayberry

shandcraig said:


> Unfortunately Hobbs is going to be another flop just like plenty of other flop big dudes in aew. That my friend will have nothing to do with race


The problem with Hobbs is that he isn’t good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Klitschko

Ram Jam said:


> I think I get it now, push all black wrestlers even if they're not as good as the current talent?


I literally didn't say that anywhere in my post. Don't make shit up son 👍.


----------



## Klitschko

NathanMayberry said:


> The problem with Hobbs is that he isn’t good.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hes decent. He's got a good backstory, a unique look, his few moves he does are on point and impactful, decent talker, has good presence, and has some charisma.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Klitschko said:


> I literally didn't say that anywhere in my post. Don't make shit up son .


That’s how the discussions here have been for pretty much this entire thread. 

There’s a massive chasm between push every black wrestler in AEW and AEW has never had a black wrestler compete on PPV in a singles match. But nah…

They either say shit you didn’t say, or call you a troll. And then don’t understand why you don’t want to waste your time engaging in serious discourse with them. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## One Shed

NathanMayberry said:


> The problem with Hobbs is that he isn’t good.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think Hobbs has a lot of potential. Starks has been on my list of guys with the most potential since early AEW. Dante is very talented, but still green. Who on the current roster would you push?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Klitschko said:


> Hes decent. He's got a good backstory, a unique look, his few moves he does are on point and impactful, decent talker, has good presence, and has some charisma.







This was the first of his I’ve seen, and I was done with him from there. There’s no coming back from that in my book. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> It’s actually not quite 4 months.
> 
> But the point remains: Swole was put in a high profile feud, allowed to do storylines and sports entertainment segments opposite Britt Baker, and eventually winning that feud.
> 
> Is it Tony’s fault that she still fell flat..? And quit skirting around the truth: she’s mad that Jade is bigger, better looking, and getting the push that she felt she deserved. Hence - whining about inequality then claiming that the diversity that exists is just a bunch of Uncle Tom’s playing nice to stay in the big house.


Again it's not an argument of Swole isn't terrible. It's an argument of we've seen terrible people get nice spots aka early Brit. 

Jade is pushed well, her existence doesn't kill the conversation that there could be more diversity in top spots. There can be personally jealousy and a point on Swole's end. It's not necessarily one or the other. 



Gibbs0102 said:


> I was replying to someone who was basically saying only white people who are still green to the business have been given a chance to grow on tv. But that is not the case what so ever look at will Hobbs post he seems to think he has been given a fair shot so I’ll take his word for it.


Aye can't argue how he feels about his spot. But she's also allowed to feel there could be .ore done 



bdon said:


> Representation matters, but it is a bigger disservice to just put a shitty, uninteresting character in such a prominent role due to their skin color.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because it is best to fall on your face in the comfort of your own home than walking down the aisle of your wedding day.


I'd argue a heavy no it's not. That's not advocating for shit characters. But if you're looking for representation, some is better than none. 



bdon said:


> Because as was stated here many times, she was doing the work to keep things interesting, coming with stories, and able to cut a promo. Rico and Shida were on tv all the time, but the inability to cut a promo hurt them. Sucks, but it is is what it is.
> 
> More than anything, *Britt was allowed to suck and work on her craft,* because the guys backstage knew her through Cole already and were willing to give her more room to learn to fall and get back up.
> 
> And even with that, had she failed at being the heel that Kenny suggested to her, then she’d likely be on Dark.


Britt can work hard, that still doesn't mean the bolded doesn't exist. And while Swole admits not being a creative person, it is noted she did come up with the Diamante stuff and that doesn't mean she didn't work on other parts of the craft.


----------



## shandcraig

Klitschko said:


> Hes decent. He's got a good backstory, a unique look, his few moves he does are on point and impactful, decent talker, has good presence, and has some charisma.



There's plenty of those in aew and they haven't and won't ever be breakout stars. We gotta stop with normalizing praise of average wrestlers. I'm happy to be wrong but I won't be


----------



## Tell em' Hawk!

“Just look at the good WWE are doing/did with Black talent like Big E and Bianca, it’s exactly what they deserve , being champions of the company”

hmm…yes let’s take a look shall we?
Big E is a phenomenal talent but his entire run as champion has been booked so poorly and he has the wonderful distinction of being champ when ratings are the lowest they’ve ever been, MSG tickets can’t sell and he’s been treated like a secondary champ. Yeah really promising spotlight. He should have been world champ years ago.

Now Bianca, an incredible athlete, and amazing role model. Headlines WrestleMania and then for no sane reason , gets jobbed out in 20 seconds to someone who hadn’t wrestled in a year and a half.

now, I get that we shouldn’t compare Swole and Khans situation to anything in WWE but she herself said her daughter looks up to Bianca and E. despite it being clear they are not showcased as top stars. Very contradictory on the part of “Big” Swole


----------



## bdon

Klitschko said:


> I'm usually the first to say "it's not racism, this wrestler just sucks" but yea AEW does have a bit of a problem with representation of Black wrestlers in prominent roles. Like someone mentioned previously, other than Big Swole not a single black person has had a singles match on one of AEW's ppv's I believe.
> 
> There is nobody that is black that's being groomed to be a main eventer eventually.


I guess Anthony Ogogo don’t count..


----------



## bdon

NathanMayberry said:


> The problem with Hobbs is that he isn’t good.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nah. It has to be that he’s black.


----------



## shandcraig

What I dont like about this person is she is making a toxic negative view and excuse out of something because she couldn't get over but felt she deserved more. You can think whatever the fuck you want but the fans decide who you are and if they like you or not.


----------



## bdon

Scorpio Sky always gets shoved down our throats, and he fucking sucks. The motherfucker must be part feline with all of the attempts at a push he has killed for being too bland.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Swole took the high road. Respect.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477354990515671043*


----------



## shandcraig

leasson


The Legit Lioness said:


> *Swole took the high road. Respect.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477354990515671043*


 lesson learned, Push more trash to the moon and then send hook


----------



## bdon

@shandcraig and @LifeInCattleClass 

If this turns out to be one big work wherein Cody rHHHodes is forced to stand with the African-American AEW wrestlers like he’s fucking Braveheart…

I WILL FUCKING APPLAUD HIM FOR DOING A GREAT STORY!!


----------



## Chan Hung

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Swole took the high road. Respect.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477354990515671043*


It appears she's backtracking and realized that she should of thought twice before typing online.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> @shandcraig and @LifeInCattleClass
> 
> If this turns out to be one big work wherein Cody rHHHodes is forced to stand with the African-American AEW wrestlers like he’s fucking Braveheart…
> 
> I WILL FUCKING APPLAUD HIM FOR DOING A GREAT STORY!!


long term fucking planning

he saved America from racism, now he has to save twitter from TKs coke tweets


----------



## Geeee

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Swole took the high road. Respect.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477354990515671043*


I hope Swole can parlay this into more indie bookings or something. I mean maybe she can improve if she puts the reps in. Also, she seems to be craving a more structured environment, so maybe this incident will make her appealing to Impact Wrestling, which has a more traditional booking structure than AEW.


----------



## Mr316

Big Swole… 😂😂😂😂😂😂

GTFO. You had your shot despite having absolutely zero talent. You absolutely fucking suck. You should actually be grateful to Tony Khan. He gave you a chance to shine, you blew it and he still kept you under contract until it ran out. Good luck getting hired by a major company after this pathetic stunt you just pulled. 

And Lio Rush…who the fuck are you? I hope Tony Khan fires your sorry ass.


----------



## Ram Jam

Klitschko said:


> I literally didn't say that anywhere in my post. Don't make shit up son 👍.


It's implied, just admit that you want less talented black wrestlers to be pushed ahead of white wrestlers for the sake of diversity.


----------



## Prosper

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Swole took the high road. Respect.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477354990515671043*


Everything that TK did for her as far as his "generosity" is not suddenly erased because he said she can't wrestle lol. She had super high praise for TK prior to yesterday's tweet and I'm sure she had a great time being with AEW not counting the main event push she never received, so it would be weird to pull a 180 now.


----------



## Ram Jam

People want Hobbs, Scorpio or Lio Rush to be hot shotted to the world title for diversity 😂


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> long term fucking planning
> 
> he saved America from racism, now he has to save twitter from TKs coke tweets


Long term storytelling.


----------



## Klitschko

Ram Jam said:


> It's implied, just admit that you want less talented black wrestlers to be pushed ahead of white wrestlers for the sake of diversity.


Where was it implied? Where did I say anything that made you think that? Was it when I said that they did have a slight problem with prominent black wrestlers, which isn't wrong, or was it when I said that not a single black guy has had a singles match at one of AEW's 10 ppvs, which isn't wrong? Where does any of that imply that I want all black wrestlers pushed instead of white wrestlers?


----------



## Seth Grimes

RapShepard said:


> Holy fuck this is insane.
> 
> People like to see themselves represented in things
> 
> Even with white people being the majority in this country, they still enjoy seeing themselves be successful in the fields they don't dominate like rap or basketball
> 
> I'm seriously not understanding where you get lost in that. The point is be it the majority or minority people like to feel represented.


Why aren't you replying to any of my other points, you're only focusing on one little part of it which isn't even really relevant, yeah some people like to see themselves in things, now how does that prove that there is an underrepresentation in wrestling of black wrestlers? I'm not getting it because I don't see how what you're saying has any relevance over other things I've said? Seems you're honing in on the low hanging fruit and ignoring all other points I've made. Just concede the argument that you were wrong, and Swole is talking shit. There is plenty of black representation, now if you disagree, make a good point for why that is instead of only focusing on an argument about whether people like to see "themselves".

I'm just not sure why you're focusing on this one point? I'm still waiting for you to actually give a good explanation of how Swole is right here, which isn't just saying "well Britt Baker wasn't put onto Dark", being a really weak point. You're gonna need a lot more than that.


----------



## shandcraig

bdon said:


> Long term storytelling.



wait aew is creative ?


----------



## Aedubya

bozojeff said:


> Sonny Kiss is gonna be a good one. Have you seen their fucking pronouns? What an attention seeking douchecanoe


What's your problem with Sonny Kiss?


----------



## somerandomfan

bdon said:


> @shandcraig and @LifeInCattleClass
> 
> If this turns out to be one big work wherein Cody rHHHodes is forced to stand with the African-American AEW wrestlers like he’s fucking Braveheart…
> 
> I WILL FUCKING APPLAUD HIM FOR DOING A GREAT STORY!!


What are you talking about, Cody ended racism, he had an interracial baby and then went on to beat up a black guy for being a foreigner, for AMERICA!


----------



## ajmaf625

Chan Hung said:


> It appears she's backtracking and realized that she should of thought twice before typing online.


blaming someone who shared their experience isn't the way to go pal, just proving her point right lol. If you want to criticize someone maybe look at the "Boss" totally missing the point and instead of looking in the mirror took a shot at a former talent. I'm sure a lot of people will think twice about signing somewhere when the boss is just openly knocking talent he had signed


----------



## bdon

shandcraig said:


> wait aew is creative ?


No. I was having some fun suggesting this was also all a work by Cody rHHHodes to cure America of racism again. Haha


----------



## shandcraig

bdon said:


> No. I was having some fun suggesting this was also all a work by Cody rHHHodes to cure America of racism again. Haha


same


----------



## bozojeff

Aedubya said:


> What's your problem with Sonny Kiss?


Fine for Ru Paul's Drag Race. Not fine for my tv


----------



## adamclark52

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376
> Let's go TK


Okay that tweet and laying it all out why she’s gone made me respect the guy a little


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> Where was it implied? Where did I say anything that made you think that? Was it when I said that they did have a slight problem with prominent black wrestlers, which isn't wrong, or was it when I said that not a single black guy has had a singles match at one of AEW's 10 ppvs, which isn't wrong? Where does any of that imply that I want all black wrestlers pushed instead of white wrestlers?


Anthony Agogo had a singles at a ppv


----------



## mazzah20

This racial diversity talk about AEW is BS. Mark Henry is in the Rampage main event every week!


----------



## Alright_Mate

Thomazbr said:


> That was certainly not the impression I had with Tay and Penelope


I’m going way back.

When Penelope had her title match, she got shoved straight back to Dark. She only appeared twice on Dynamite for the rest of 2020 after that.

When Tay lost her title match against Shida last year, she got shoved straight back to Dark, it took five months until she appeared on Dynamite again.

That is piss poor roster management from Tony Khan, Big Swole made a perfect point regarding that.

Yet people would rather concentrate on the diversity spectrum of her comments, when in all fairness, she does have a point regarding certain things.


----------



## RapShepard

Seth Grimes said:


> Why aren't you replying to any of my other points, you're only focusing on one little part of it which isn't even really relevant, yeah some people like to see themselves in things, now how does that prove that there is an underrepresentation in wrestling of black wrestlers? I'm not getting it because I don't see how what you're saying has any relevance over other things I've said? Seems you're honing in on the low hanging fruit and ignoring all other points I've made. Just concede the argument that you were wrong, and Swole is talking shit. There is plenty of black representation, now if you disagree, make a good point for why that is instead of only focusing on an argument about whether people like to see "themselves".
> 
> I'm just not sure why you're focusing on this one point? I'm still waiting for you to actually give a good explanation of how Swole is right here, which isn't just saying "well Britt Baker wasn't put onto Dark", being a really weak point. You're gonna need a lot more than that.


Because your other point is being purposefully disingenuous with what representation means for people in this contexts. You're trying to argue from a stats perspective to disprove how she feels. But fine lets just let use real world stats determine whether something is represented well enough.

So surely you'd agree that given the population of the US is 50% female that women are being grossly underrepresented? Do you now advocate that Swole is at least right on the women's representation part of her statements? Or is shit more nuanced than just spouting out data?


----------



## shandcraig

40 pages deep well rampage has 4, was it really that bad ?


----------



## Mr. Speed

Alright_Mate said:


> WWE have put titles on Big E, Bobby Lashley & Bianca Belair over the past year for a reason, because they are Champion material. AEW don’t have any Wrestlers of black heritage that are Champion material, simple.


and don't forget how short Kofi and Belair's title reigns were and they both lost their titles getting DESTROYED in under 27 seconds. Disgraceful.


----------



## Mr. Speed

kingfunkel said:


> "lack of diversity led to leaving the company"
> 
> Nope, you were trash and weren't needed. You served your purpose to plug gaps while AEW recruited a roster. Now the roster is big enough, the gap filling deadweight will be dropped. It's not hard to work out. Since she's black, it has to be a race thing! Trying to be the cm punk of the black wrestling world
> 
> Can't wait till Sunny kiss gets the boot. Guess that'll be a race thing too... Nothing to do with the fact he/she/it is black and gay/straight/whatever the fuck it is. Fuck big swole!


Don't drag Sonny Kiss into this. Sonny never complained about nothing.


----------



## Prosper

shandcraig said:


> 40 pages deep well rampage has 4, was it really that bad ?


Rampage? No Rampage was great, it was actually a better show than Dynamite this week.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Swole took the high road. Respect.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477354990515671043*


Trying to get back in his good graces. 😂


----------



## shandcraig

RapShepard said:


> Because your other point is being purposefully disingenuous with what representation means for people in this contexts. You're trying to argue from a stats perspective to disprove how she feels. But fine lets just let use real world stats determine whether something is represented well enough.
> 
> So surely you'd agree that given the population of the US is 50% female that women are being grossly underrepresented? Do you now advocate that Swole is at least right on the women's representation part of her statements? Or is shit more nuanced than just spouting out data?



Wrestling business is driven by men and it always will be. You dont cater to a market that is not your main revenue source. Men will always be drawn to these events because of other men that they enjoy. Women will always be second rate and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Its like all these female sports leagues that have no one show up to the venues Not even women supporting them. Yet people act like its mens fault and that they deserve to be paid the same. You dont pay someone the same as someone else that is filling arenas of people.

cigar business is driven by men, Should these businesses insist on hiring 50 percent women just because they feel entitled to be there.


----------



## RapShepard

shandcraig said:


> Wrestling business is driven by men and it always will be. You dont cater to a market that is not your main revenue source. Men will always be drawn to these events because of other men that they enjoy. Women will always be second rate and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Its like all these female sports leagues that have no one show up to the venues Not even women supporting them. Yet people act like its mens fault and that they deserve to be paid the same. You dont pay someone the same as someone else that is filling arenas of people.


I disagree with nothing you said lol. It's almost like just randomly throwing out numbers allows for no nuance.


----------



## Krin

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376
> Let's go TK


🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 

usually don't like Tony Kahn but this was savage


----------



## Seth Grimes

RapShepard said:


> Because your other point is being purposefully disingenuous with what representation means for people in this contexts. You're trying to argue from a stats perspective to disprove how she feels. But fine lets just let use real world stats determine whether something is represented well enough.
> 
> So surely you'd agree that given the population of the US is 50% female that women are being grossly underrepresented? Do you now advocate that Swole is at least right on the women's representation part of her statements? Or is shit more nuanced than just spouting out data?


I could say the same for you tbh, because pulling something like "it's about how they feel", yet we don't use this argument for anything else? When people say stupid things, we ask them what is their reasoning for it is. And of course you can use stats to determine is something is represented enough? What other metrics are you gonna use?

They're being underrepresented in wrestling or on tv? And I never said this isn't nuanced, hence why I give you a pretty big reply to all your points. If I didn't think there was nuance, I'd legit just look at the % of each race in these companies alone, and nothing more. I said that black people may just be going and doing other sports, because they're the ones that have the choices, we all know a bunch of people go to wrestling after failing the original career they wanted. Is that not being nuanced? I said it's possible that black people in USA have less money to even do wrestling classes, again, is that not nuanced? I've made plenty of points, and you aren't answering any of the hard ones, merely trying to pick at the low hanging fruits. For the third time, where is your proof that there is an underrepresentation of black people in wrestling, and why do you think that might be, and no, I do not want to hear about how her feelings alone justify the statement.


----------



## shandcraig

Krin said:


> 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
> 
> usually don't like Tony Kahn but this was savage


wait is that a real tweet by him ? Since when does he make true statements. This has to be a work.


----------



## Krin

lmao at Swole claiming her daughter said "mommy nobody on AEW looks like me". Kids don't say shit like that. No doubt in my mind Swole taught her kid to think like that. 🤣


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Trying to get back in his good graces. 😂


*Not really. She basically said he showed his true colors, yet still took the time to praise the gracious things he did for her and everyone else at a time when she looked at him in a different light. *


----------



## Klitschko

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Anthony Agogo had a singles at a ppv


Oh you're right. I totally forgot about him lol.


----------



## One Shed

Krin said:


> lmao at Swole claiming her daughter said "mommy nobody on AEW looks like me". Kids don't say shit like that. No doubt in my mind Swole taught her kid to think like that. 🤣


Small white children everywhere are comforted that someone on the show looks like them because Marko Stunt exists.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> Holy fuck this is insane.
> 
> People like to see themselves represented in things
> 
> Even with white people being the majority in this country, they still enjoy seeing themselves be successful in the fields they don't dominate like rap or basketball
> 
> I'm seriously not understanding where you get lost in that. The point is be it the majority or minority people like to feel represented.


There's a lot of white people in baseball, soccer, and hockey but I don't really care about any of them, I don't care about basketball or football. Maybe I like hockey a little more cuz I'm Canadian, it's fast paced and people can have fist fights on the ice.  

As far as rap goes I like people that rap about shit I'm interested in. When I was in highschool I was into Immortal Technique because he was rapping about history, corruption and injustice. I was into Eminem, not because he was white (I'm quarter Lebanese and my aunts and uncles love pointing out how I look like a terrorist when I grow a beard) but because a lot of songs were rapping about school shootings, media manipulation and politics.

At the end of the day it all comes down to content and culture, not race. The problem is is that content and culture are largely generated around regional backgrounds and unfortunately regional distance over time (over the long span of time) has created differences in physical appearances and people get stuck on that.

Shit sucks and we should really be moving beyond this point as a species at this point. 

I don't really see myself represented in the media these days; I'm a mongrel punk rock metal head cynically idealistic misanthrope, where is that representation? Oh you can find it on the oldies station on the radio, you can find it on the oldies station on the TV or on youtube from long dead comedians and musicians.

But then again why should I care? Why should I go and start dragging other people because they're not me and a lot of people aren't interested in me and my shit.

It's all just angry deflection.

I really like Joey Janella and Sonny Kiss, but I'm not gonna sit here and say they were major draws that needed more TV time. People just weren't interested in them and people weren't interested in Big Swole.

I liked her when the womens division was really young but now you've got people like Thunder Rosa and Jade!? Yeah push them they're fucking stars and make for entertaining television.

Tony is a numbers guy, and shit just wasn't working out for her. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Lorromire

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> I was into Eminem, not because he was white (I'm quarter Lebanese and my aunts and uncles love pointing out how I look like a terrorist when I grow a beard)


Wait, so you aren't a real nazi mouse? My whole world is shattered


----------



## Krin

Tony Kahn should have never hired a race obsessed twat like Big Swole or anyone who plays the race card to justify their failures. That includes Lio Rush and that idiot from WWE who threw a fit about getting a t-shirt which he claimed was racist. 

Big Swole needs to retire from wrestling and become a full time BLM activist, it's clearly her calling in life.


----------



## Geeee

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> There's a lot of white people in baseball, soccer, and hockey but I don't really care about any of them, I don't care about basketball or football. Maybe I like hockey a little more cuz I'm Canadian, it's fast paced and people can have fist fights on the ice.
> 
> As far as rap goes I like people that rap about shit I'm interested in. When I was in highschool I was into Immortal Technique because he was rapping about history, corruption and injustice. I was into Eminem, not because he was white (I'm quarter Lebanese and my aunts and uncles love pointing out how I look like a terrorist when I grow a beard) but because a lot of songs were rapping about school shootings, media manipulation and politics.
> 
> At the end of the day it all comes down to content and culture, not race. The problem is is that content and culture are largely generated around regional backgrounds and unfortunately regional distance over time (over the long span of time) has created differences in physical appearances and people get stuck on that.
> 
> Shit sucks and we should really be moving beyond this point as a species at this point.
> 
> I don't really see myself represented in the media these days; I'm a mongrel punk rock metal head cynically idealistic misanthrope, where is that representation? Oh you can find it on the oldies station on the radio, you can find it on the oldies station on the TV or on youtube from long dead comedians and musicians.
> 
> But then again why should I care? Why should I go and start dragging other people because they're not me and a lot of people aren't interested in me and my shit.
> 
> It's all just angry deflection.
> 
> I really like Joey Janella and Sonny Kiss, but I'm not gonna sit here and say they were major draws that needed more TV time. People just weren't interested in them and people weren't interested in Big Swole.
> 
> I liked her when the womens division was really young but now you've got people like Thunder Rosa and Jade!? Yeah push them they're fucking stars and make for entertaining television.
> 
> Tony is a numbers guy, and shit just wasn't working out for her. 🤷‍♂️


While I don't disagree with any of this, you could argue that Tony should not say it publicly about his employee. Also, his tweet had a little bit of "yeah but I have a black friend..." energy


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Klitschko said:


> Oh you're right. I totally forgot about him lol.


*Case in point lmao*


----------



## Seth Grimes

Krin said:


> Tony Kahn should have never hired a race obsessed twat like Big Swole or anyone who plays the race card to justify their failures. That includes Lio Rush and that idiot from WWE who threw a fit about getting a t-shirt which he claimed was racist.
> 
> Big Swole needs to retire from wrestling and become a full time BLM activist, it's clearly her calling in life.


You are the opposite side of that coin, you are no better.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Buryingsmarks on point as usual


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Prosper

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477383798320816129
Some good finally coming out of all this.


----------



## 3venflow

Edit: Beaten to it.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Lol nevermind 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chan Hung

Prosper said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477383798320816129
> Some good finally coming out of all this.


Agreed, hopefully his release.


----------



## shandcraig

Someone's going to get fired.....


----------



## Krin

Prosper said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477383798320816129
> Some good finally coming out of all this.


Fire him lol. The fact that he's acting like some hotshot who thinks he has any input on how the company should operate is laughable. The level of entitlement is off the charts. He tried this at WWE and it wasn't tolerated for a second. This clown needs to be in the indies. Start a BLM wrestling organization with Big Swole.


----------



## NathanMayberry

The content and memes that has come out through social media today on this has been phenomenal lmao


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RoganJosh

Prosper said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477383798320816129
> Some good finally coming out of all this.


Sounds like he was threatened with the sack. That's right Lio know your role. Bent the knee like a bitch.


----------



## shandcraig

Let's put the main belt on Scorpio sky and see how well that goes for aew


----------



## Mr316

Prosper said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477383798320816129
> Some good finally coming out of all this.


I’d have him job to Wardlow this Wednesday and then I’d fire his ass. This little prick thinks he’s The Rock or something? These shitheads like Swole and Lio will only create problems in your company.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

* I love that Lio got off his ass and did something instead of just quitting.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477383798320816129*


----------



## Krin

I think this is a great example of "everything woke turns to shit".

Tony Khan tried to make his company appealing to these social justice/ smark justice losers on Twitter and now he's not woke enough for their liking. Now his woke, progressive glorified indy company with entitled, indy talent is imploding on itself. 

WWE would never stand for this shit. Once talent starts acting out on Twitter and tries to derail the company, they're not worth doing business with.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> * I love that Lio got off his ass and did something instead of just quitting.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477383798320816129*


in the end what he did was worth the most

he called out the BS - but then the next day picked up the phone, discussed it, and made up his own mind

i like Lio


----------



## Krin

The Legit Lioness said:


> * I love that Lio got off his ass and did something instead of just quitting.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477383798320816129*


This is just damage control so he gets some heat off him and doesn't get fired for his earlier statements.


----------



## Mr316

“I look forward to working with Tony” 

This little clown really thinks he’s gonna educate Tony or something? 😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## shandcraig

Krin said:


> I think this is a great example of "everything woke turns to shit".
> 
> Tony Khan tried to make his company appealing to these social justice/ smark justice losers on Twitter and now he's not woke enough for their liking. Now his woke, progressive glorified indy company with entitled, indy talent is imploding on itself.
> 
> WWE would never stand for this shit. Once talent starts acting out on Twitter and tries to derail the company, they're not worth doing business with.



These people don't invest in any of these companies. That is why companies should never invest in them.


----------



## shandcraig

Mr316 said:


> “I look forward to working with Tony”
> 
> This little clown really thinks he’s gonna educate Tony or something? 😂😂😂😂😂



I hope Tony keeps little Lio and pushes him to the moon so rush can see what reality looks like and why this is all nonsnese


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Geeee said:


> While I don't disagree with any of this, you could argue that Tony should not say it publicly about his employee. Also, his tweet had a little bit of "yeah but I have a black friend..." energy


I dunno, all he said was that he didn't re-sign her because her wrestling wasn't that good, and I mean I liked Big Swole but she wasn't lighting the world on fire was she? Didn't she say she also didn't want to re-sign?

She also had Crohn's; nobody can book around the bowels, belie dat!

I was actually one of the few people who wasn't talking shit when she got her release. Sometimes things just don't work out.

Her, basically calling Tony and the rest of the crew onstage and backstage vaguely racist because she wasn't getting booked as a top star is a sad reach. That would be like Marko coming out and calling Tony a sizeist because he wasn't putting him in big matches, or Joey Janella saying I deserve more screen time because I think I'm cool.

The difference being that Marko knows he's never going to be a main event champion and Joey is working his ass off to get a better look so maybe he could be a TNT champ at some point.

And they're content with that!

------

There are no real boundaries in AEW like Swole said herself.

If you're willing to put in the work the company will have your back. If you're a sitting on your laurels mf like Zack Ryder/Matt Cardona was before he got fired and before he dropped into the indie scene with his GCW run -- yeah sorry.

It's a highly competitive environment and if you're not cut out for the task -- walk away -- but don't try and blame it on race because there are other people getting pushes that are POC.

For Tony this shit really isn't about race, it's about talent, drawing power and the numbers that indicate that.

IF THE NUMBERS SAY YOU'RE A DRAW YOU GET PUSHED. As much as some people might not like their look or their gimmick, Orange Cassidy, Darby Allin and Adam Cole retain viewers. If the numbers say you aren't retaining viewers, well sorry come back again later with something we can sell.


----------



## AthleticGirth

I actually like Lio's work but he's behaving like a sanctimonious twat - remind me what he tweeted when Emma was fired from WWE again ? Considering she's a different gender, race and nationality to Lio does that make his comments worse ? 

TK's fired more English wrestlers from contracts than any other group. None of them played the ethnicity card after they were released, despite two of them essentially having their wrestling careers ended by it.


----------



## Erik.

The Legit Lioness said:


> * I love that Lio got off his ass and did something instead of just quitting.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477383798320816129*


That's great to see, this won’t be enough for some and I do still stand by thinking Tony’s tweet was totally unprofessional and that if he wanted to speak his own thoughts on Swole’s statements, he should’ve done so in a proper interview setting rather than just having a very snippy line in a tweet. 

To anyone on the boat of “Tony Khan and AEW are racist”, that has always been a fucking weird stance to take looking at the roster they have and how genuinely diverse it is from ethnicities, sexuality, age range, etc…


----------



## Rhetro

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Swole took the high road. Respect.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477354990515671043*


She didn’t take the high road… that’s what caused this whole uproar. She’s now taken the damage control road in Joel’s she gets booked somewhere.


----------



## shandcraig

Erik. said:


> That's great to see, this won’t be enough for some and I do still stand by thinking Tony’s tweet was totally unprofessional and that if he wanted to speak his own thoughts on Swole’s statements, he should’ve done so in a proper interview setting rather than just having a very snippy line in a tweet.
> 
> To anyone on the boat of “Tony Khan and AEW are racist”, that has always been a fucking weird stance to take looking at the roster they have and how genuinely diverse it is from ethnicities, sexuality, age range, etc…



But but Scorpio sky isn't main eventing so aew is racist


----------



## Mr316

Krin said:


> I think this is a great example of "everything woke turns to shit".
> 
> Tony Khan tried to make his company appealing to these social justice/ smark justice losers on Twitter and now he's not woke enough for their liking. Now his woke, progressive glorified indy company with entitled, indy talent is imploding on itself.
> 
> WWE would never stand for this shit. Once talent starts acting out on Twitter and tries to derail the company, they're not worth doing business with.


This is 100% true. This is the result of Tony being way too nice to the talents. Some clowns like Big Swole and Lio then take advantage of that. It’s actually unbelievable if Lio gets away with this. You can’t fucking call out your boss like that in public. You just can’t…unless you’re looking to get your ass fired.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Rhetro said:


> She didn’t take the high road… that’s what caused this whole uproar. She’s now taken the damage control road in Joel’s she gets booked somewhere.


*She was already booked for a match yesterday and it's been heavily advertised all over Twitter.*


----------



## 3venflow

I'd be very reluctant to put Lio in a position of importance after this if I was Tony Khan, because he's shown how quickly he can flip (not for the first time) so he's hardly trustworthy. I'm a fan of Lio's work and championed him on here for AEW after watching his indy stuff throughout the pandemic. But he is one of those who is just waiting for something dramatic to happen so he can be involved. Much like the race baiter Swole.


----------



## RapShepard

Seth Grimes said:


> I could say the same for you tbh, because pulling something like "it's about how they feel", yet we don't use this argument for anything else? When people say stupid things, we ask them what is their reasoning for it is. And of course you can use stats to determine is something is represented enough? What other metrics are you gonna use?
> 
> They're being underrepresented in wrestling or on tv? And I never said this isn't nuanced, hence why I give you a pretty big reply to all your points. If I didn't think there was nuance, I'd legit just look at the % of each race in these companies alone, and nothing more. I said that black people may just be going and doing other sports, because they're the ones that have the choices, we all know a bunch of people go to wrestling after failing the original career they wanted. Is that not being nuanced? I said it's possible that black people in USA have less money to even do wrestling classes, again, is that not nuanced? I've made plenty of points, and you aren't answering any of the hard ones, merely trying to pick at the low hanging fruits. For the third time, where is your proof that there is an underrepresentation of black people in wrestling, and why do you think that might be, and no, I do not want to hear about how her feelings alone justify the statement.


Unless you are going to argue that people need to consume entertainment as if they're data robots you can't not include feelings in the discussion of representation in entertainment lol. 

The proof comes down to what an individual values as true representation. If you believe representation is solved simply if something exists, then on that end sure AEW is crushing diversity and representation. If you believe representation needs to occupy positions of relevance to be truly counted and not feel token, then AEW needs some work. For some they might feel more black talent need to be getting treatment like Jade or the four pillars for it to be counted. For them that's valid. 

To me there's no black talent I'm heads over heels for so I'm not up am arms. But I do think arguments like "well there's Jade, and Hobbs be scowling in the background and shit". Is hard to take serious for the case for diversity. I don't think it has to be world title type shit or bust. But once guys like Hobbs and a healed Starks start feeling like TNT title worthy or the Acclaimed feel like true tag contenders then the case for diversity to me shouldn't be up to debate. 

As for why there aren't more black wrestlers, I'd assume it's because prior to recently there wasn't much proof that succeeding as a black wrestler was an easy thing. To take race out, the same way folk like HBK, Bret, and Owen showed a fuck ton of current wrestlers that they didn't have to be Hogan sized to make it. I think the current crop of black wrestlers showing there can be success and longevity in pro wrestling, it'll inspire more black athletes getting into wrestling thus increasing the talent lool.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Erik. said:


> To anyone on the boat of “Tony Khan and AEW are racist”, that has always been a fucking weird stance to take looking at the roster they have and how genuinely diverse it is from ethnicities, sexuality, age range, etc…




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477361924077760512


----------



## shandcraig

The funny thing is we could easily play this game. Tony Khan background is middle eastern and yet aew has like non In the company. It's clear he doesn't give a fuck about this fake nonsense. So before people try to make it about race they are a lot better off than others in aew. Which again is just simply a Lack of talent thing


----------



## Erik.

The Legit Lioness said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477361924077760512


Absolutely.


----------



## Krin

The Legit Lioness said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477361924077760512


In her mind, I'm sure she thinks all white people are inherently racist. Tony Kahn is white passing, hence he's racist and benefits from privilege. So yes, in her warped mind he's probably a racist. This is how all the indoctrinated race obsessed BLM types like her think.


----------



## shandcraig

RapShepard said:


> Unless you are going to argue that people need to consume entertainment as if they're data robots you can't not include feelings in the discussion of representation in entertainment lol.
> 
> The proof comes down to what an individual values as true representation. If you believe representation is solved simply if something exists, then on that end sure AEW is crushing diversity and representation. If you believe representation needs to occupy positions of relevance to be truly counted and not feel token, then AEW needs some work. For some they might feel more black talent need to be getting treatment like Jade or the four pillars for it to be counted. For them that's valid.
> 
> To me there's no black talent I'm heads over heels for so I'm not up am arms. But I do think arguments like "well there's Jade, and Hobbs be scowling in the background and shit". Is hard to take serious for the case for diversity. I don't think it has to be world title type shit or bust. But once guys like Hobbs and a healed Starks start feeling like TNT title worthy or the Acclaimed feel like true tag contenders then the case for diversity to me shouldn't be up to debate.
> 
> As for why there aren't more black wrestlers, I'd assume it's because prior to recently there wasn't much proof that succeeding as a black wrestler was an easy thing. To take race out, the same way folk like HBK, Bret, and Owen showed a fuck ton of current wrestlers that they didn't have to be Hogan sized to make it. I think the current crop of black wrestlers showing there can be success and longevity in pro wrestling, it'll inspire more black athletes getting into wrestling thus increasing the talent lool.



Or maybe it's simply because there isn't that many good ones In the industry at the moment. No business or aspect of life has equally thriving races in every aspect of life at once. There plenty of Asians that are better than everyone else at certain thing just like any other aspects of life for other backgrounds. Sometimes it just comes sown to eras and society and culture that changes back and forth over time. It's like again the example that aew doesn't have any middle eastern talent is another example we can argue here but that is just a talent issue.

Why is there more black baseball players than any other backgrounds. I would like more diveristy there instead of talent....


How long is the internet going to go through this bullshit


----------



## Klitschko

The Legit Lioness said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477361924077760512


 Plenty of black folks and other ethnicities were defending Khan, not just the white folks.


----------



## RapShepard

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> There's a lot of white people in baseball, soccer, and hockey but I don't really care about any of them, I don't care about basketball or football. Maybe I like hockey a little more cuz I'm Canadian, it's fast paced and people can have fist fights on the ice. [emoji14]
> 
> As far as rap goes I like people that rap about shit I'm interested in. When I was in highschool I was into Immortal Technique because he was rapping about history, corruption and injustice. I was into Eminem, not because he was white (I'm quarter Lebanese and my aunts and uncles love pointing out how I look like a terrorist when I grow a beard) but because a lot of songs were rapping about school shootings, media manipulation and politics.
> 
> At the end of the day it all comes down to content and culture, not race. The problem is is that content and culture are largely generated around regional backgrounds and unfortunately regional distance over time (over the long span of time) has created differences in physical appearances and people get stuck on that.
> 
> Shit sucks and we should really be moving beyond this point as a species at this point.
> 
> *I don't really see myself represented in the media these days; I'm a mongrel punk rock metal head cynically idealistic misanthrope, where is that representation? Oh you can find it on the oldies station on the radio, you can find it on the oldies station on the TV or on youtube from long dead comedians and musicians.
> 
> But then again why should I care? Why should I go and start dragging other people because they're not me and a lot of people aren't interested in me and my shit.*
> 
> It's all just angry deflection.
> 
> I really like Joey Janella and Sonny Kiss, but I'm not gonna sit here and say they were major draws that needed more TV time. People just weren't interested in them and people weren't interested in Big Swole.
> 
> I liked her when the womens division was really young but now you've got people like Thunder Rosa and Jade!? Yeah push them they're fucking stars and make for entertaining television.
> 
> Tony is a numbers guy, and shit just wasn't working out for her. [emoji2369]


Even Em himself has spoken at length about how him being white was definitely a plus. Now of course he's also skilled, but once he broke through that shit helped. 

Also aye if you don't want to ask for more things you feel represent you fine. But if you did don't you think it'd be weird for folk to then start telling you you're a sucky asshole for wanting that


----------



## Krin

Klitschko said:


> Plenty of black folks and other ethnicities were defending Khan, not just the white folks.


lol they want it to be an "us vs. white people" situation. These people are warped. They think all minorities are some collective unit who all think alike and feel disenfranchised by whites.


----------



## shandcraig

Krin said:


> lol they want it to be an "us vs. white people" situation. These people are warped. They think all minorities are some collective unit who all think alike and feel disenfranchised by whites.



Media wants it to be that way.


----------



## Krin

RapShepard said:


> Also aye if you don't want to ask for more things you feel represent you fine. But if you did don't you think it'd be weird for folk to then start telling you you're a sucky asshole for wanting that


when you start a big Twitter shitstorm and think making diversity the number one priority over everything else is what good wrestling is, yes you are a sucky little asshole for wanting that.


----------



## RapShepard

shandcraig said:


> Or maybe it's simply because there isn't that many good ones In the industry at the moment. No business or aspect of life has equally thriving races in every aspect of life at once. There plenty of Asians that are better than everyone else at certain thing just like any other aspects of life for other backgrounds. Sometimes it just comes sown to eras and society and culture that changes back and forth over time. It's like again the example that aew doesn't have any middle eastern talent is another example we can argue here but that is just a talent issue.
> 
> Why is there more black baseball players than any other backgrounds. I would like more diveristy there instead of talent....
> 
> 
> How long is the internet going to go through this bullshit


We've seen tons of very successful meh white wrestlers. We can't at least diversify the very successful meh. This statement always comes off like a "well there ain't another Rock sitting out there, so what do you expect" and I assume most don't mean it like that lol. Like say Shelton or MVP couldn't of had Dolph's career they're of similar talent.


----------



## The XL 2

The cries for diversity are fucking tiresome. The NBA is what, 70% black? In a country that's 12% black? And the only white boys worth a shit, Nikola Jokic and Luka Doncic, aren't even from the states. And that's okay, it should be about merit and not race.

Pro wrestling should be no different, the most talented performers who get over should be on top. Now, I personally think most of this eras talent suck, so I can't even really distinguish between the so called white "talent" and the so called black "talent." That said, their hasn't been anyone on AEWs roster who has separated themselves to the point of clearly being labeled as being held down. And Big Swole in particular is horrendous, it wouldn't shock me if the only reason she got hired in the first place was because shes black.


----------



## RapShepard

Krin said:


> when you start a big Twitter shitstorm and think making diversity the number one priority over everything else is what good wrestling is, yes you are a sucky little asshole for wanting that.


You'd have a very great point if the wrestling business was always this honorable super merit based business. With all the nepotism, cronyism, politics played, and meh not really a draw people that are allowed to be pushed. Hard to get up in arms about diversity pushes lol.


----------



## BlueEyedDevil

Big Swole will soon be booked at a drive-thru window asking you if you need any extra ketchups to go with your fries.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Congratulations to @LifeInCattleClass for making the biggest thread in a long time. 43 pages in like a day.

As Farooq would say, DAMN!


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> I'd argue a heavy no it's not. That's not advocating for shit characters. But if you're looking for representation, some is better than none


So, they should just put Scorpio Sky into the title scene, despite them trying to put him into the fucking TNT title scene AND GIVING HIM A HEEL TURN LIKE BRITT BAKER GOT that he completely fell on his face with. Or maybe they can push Swole into a big PPV feud with all of the bells and whistles, and when she still isn’t over, they just go ahead and put the title on her anyways, because…she’s black. Right?



RapShepard said:


> Britt can work hard, that still doesn't mean the bolded doesn't exist. And while Swole admits not being a creative person, it is noted she did come up with the Diamante stuff and that doesn't mean she didn't work on other parts of the craft.


And..? The Diamanté stuff is so shit that I, someone who watched weekly, do not remember any “Diamanté stuff”. It wasn’t memorable, but fuck it, strap the belt and rocket to her.


The fact is that AEW is doing a wonderful job of creating “young lions” in Will Hobbs, Max Caster, Dante Martin, and the like. They are all rotated on TV almost weekly in some capacity, almost as if…Tony were…working them into the story and helping them become an accepted part of the weekly lineup as a household name in the AEW universe. 

Again…what black athlete should be in that top 5-8 range of the men’s division? Will Hobbs is the closest answer, and he has rubbed elbows in storylines with Jon Moxley, Cody rHHHodes, is the muscle of legendary Taz, and just recently wrestled opposite CM Punk in front of 20,000 people and 1.2+ million people at home, all that saw him go the distance with CM fucking Punk.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Congratulations to @LifeInCattleClass for making the biggest thread in a long time. 43 pages in like a day.
> 
> As Farooq would say, DAMN!


Something tells me Ron would not be pleased with Swole or Lio.


----------



## Krin

The XL 2 said:


> The cries for diversity are fucking tiresome. The NBA is what, 70% black? In a country that's 12% black? And the only white boys worth a shit, Nikola Jokic and Luka Doncic, aren't even from the states. And that's okay, it should be about merit and not race.
> 
> Pro wrestling should be no different, the most talented performers who get over should be on top. Now, I personally think most of this eras talent suck, so I can't even really distinguish between the so called white "talent" and the so called black "talent." That said, their hasn't been anyone on AEWs roster who has separated themselves to the point of clearly being labeled as being held down. And Big Swole in particular is horrendous, it wouldn't shock me if the only reason she got hired in the first place was because shes black.


the argument the team Swole side will answer to this is to say wrestling is fake and not a real sport, so therefore all wrestling companies should be obligated to be diverse. 

and really, by "diversity" they basically mean "we want to see more black wrestlers pushed and holding titles". As someone already mentioned, there are virtually zero middle eastern characters on the show.


----------



## The XL 2

RapShepard said:


> Anna Jay's "improvements" are just as miniscule and worthless as Big Swole's. The only difference is Anna Jay is allowed to be shitty on TV in a never ending foursome with Tay, Bunny, and Penelope.


Anna Jay is very attractive, has some charisma, and 23 years old. Big Swole is unattractive, has very little charisma, and is 32, nearly a decade older. Anna Jay already has more value at a lot more time to improve.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> You'd have a very great point if the wrestling business was always this honorable super merit based business. With all the nepotism, cronyism, politics played, and meh not really a draw people that are allowed to be pushed. Hard to get up in arms about diversity pushes lol.


They keep trying with Scorpio Sky. He keeps failing “his people”.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Klitschko said:


> Plenty of black folks and other ethnicities were defending Khan, not just the white folks.


*That's not the point. If you interpreted her statements as "AEW is racist", you're doing it wrong.*


----------



## shandcraig

Chip Chipperson said:


> Congratulations to @LifeInCattleClass for making the biggest thread in a long time. 43 pages in like a day.
> 
> As Farooq would say, DAMN!


Because people are so tired of this bullshit


----------



## The XL 2

Krin said:


> the argument the team Swole side will answer to this is to say wrestling is fake and not a real sport, so therefore all wrestling companies should be obligated to be diverse.
> 
> and really, by "diversity" they basically mean "we want to see more black wrestlers pushed and holding titles". As someone already mentioned, there are virtually zero middle eastern characters on the show.


Wrestling is fake, but drawing money is real, and companies should be pushing those in a position to draw money with the audience, an audience which is mostly white. The Rock as a half black half Samoan man was arguably more over with the mostly white wrestling audience than any performer in wrestling history. But none of these jabronis are the Rock. Or even Booker T, or Mark Henry. The black talent today is worse than the white talent, on average, although neither is particularly good in the modern era.


----------



## shandcraig

Now we comparing women when that world comes down to sex appeal so let's stop pretending. Swole’ isn't as attractive and people find Anna Jay to be so. That's the name of the game for females in this business.

The internet is full of talentless women getting ahead purely by sex appeal


----------



## The XL 2

shandcraig said:


> Now we comparing women when that world comes down to sex appeal so let's stop pretending. Swole’ isn't as attractive and people find Anna Jay to be so. That's the name of the game for females in this business.
> 
> The internet is full of talentless women getting ahead purely by sex appeal


Anna Jay is also a decade younger than Swole. Comparing Swole and Anna makes no sense.


----------



## Cult03

RapShepard said:


> I don't think folk truly mean for it to come off that way. But it's always weird how folk can't seem to understand that
> 
> 1. Entertainment wise folk like to see themselves as not just participants, but as folk in prominent roles.
> 
> 2. When it comes to mentions of lack of diversity defaulting to "well obviously it's just a skills issue" because then that paints the false picture that in entertainment things are solely done on merit.


I can honestly say that wrestling needs to be the opposite. Larger than life characters that in no way resemble the normal people are what made this amazing to watch. They might do things we wish we could (attack our boss or something) but that’s more how we wish to be, not how we see ourselves. Wrestling started to suck when the wrestlers looked and sounded like the everyday man or woman.

I am genuinely curious. Do you believe Swole should be pushed because of her skill, ability and character work? Or would you prefer another black person to be pushed instead? If so, give an example and actually give ideas instead of just saying she’s right.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> So, they should just put Scorpio Sky into the title scene, despite them trying to put him into the fucking TNT title scene AND GIVING HIM A HEEL TURN LIKE BRITT BAKER GOT that he completely fell on his face with. Or maybe they can push Swole into a big PPV feud with all of the bells and whistles, and when she still isn’t over, they just go ahead and put the title on her anyways, because…she’s black. Right?
> 
> 
> And..? The Diamanté stuff is so shit that I, someone who watched weekly, do not remember any “Diamanté stuff”. It wasn’t memorable, but fuck it, strap the belt and rocket to her.
> 
> 
> The fact is that AEW is doing a wonderful job of creating “young lions” in Will Hobbs, Max Caster, Dante Martin, and the like. They are all rotated on TV almost weekly in some capacity, almost as if…Tony were…working them into the story and helping them become an accepted part of the weekly lineup as a household name in the AEW universe.
> 
> Again…what black athlete should be in that top 5-8 range of the men’s division? Will Hobbs is the closest answer, and he has rubbed elbows in storylines with Jon Moxley, Cody rHHHodes, is the muscle of legendary Taz, and just recently wrestled opposite CM Punk in front of 20,000 people and 1.2+ million people at home, all that saw him go the distance with CM fucking Punk.


1. Scorpio Sky sucks to me. I wouldn't advocate for a Scorpio Sky push. 

2. Do you watch Dark? Because if not Swole vs Diamante was exclusive to that and at least the Dark watchers seemed to enjoy it. Actually had Black Wrestling Matters on trending off of Dark. Maybe it's something that could've worked on TV. If they can find time for Penelope Ford & Bunny vs TayJay, why not that. 

3. Let's look at Hobbs he's been with the company since summer last year. Joined Team Taz in November last year. Can you honestly say from an in kayfabe sense he's really progressed in the last year. True he's had nice elbow rubs, but as you often point out with Cody and his opponents, what happens in the long run. Rubbing elbows is great, but if Team Taz never progresses beyond joke stable everybody but Cage beats, then does any of it even matter. As of now it doesn't really foreshadow anything big happening for Hobbs soon. Could Hobbs not at least be getting some say Wardlow type booking?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Even Em himself has spoken at length about how him being white was definitely a plus. Now of course he's also skilled, but once he broke through that shit helped.


*"If I was Black, I would have sold half. 
I didn't have to go to Lincoln High School to know that. 
But I could rap, so fuck school, I'm too cool to go back. 
Give me the mic, show me where the fucking studio's at."




*


----------



## RapShepard

The XL 2 said:


> Anna Jay is very attractive, has some charisma, and 23 years old. Big Swole is unattractive, has very little charisma, and is 32, nearly a decade older. Anna Jay already has more value at a lot more time to improve.


Anna isn't cute to me, though get conventionally she is attractive. Don't see the charisma in her. Though Dark Order hate could make me biased. 

Agree Swole isn't attractive. Disagree she has no charisma. Open to the idea of her being an acquired taste. Like I think she'd be a perfect manager for her boring husband.


----------



## shandcraig

RapShepard said:


> 1. Scorpio Sky sucks to me. I wouldn't advocate for a Scorpio Sky push.
> 
> 2. Do you watch Dark? Because if not Swole vs Diamante was exclusive to that and at least the Dark watchers seemed to enjoy it. Actually had Black Wrestling Matters on trending off of Dark. Maybe it's something that could've worked on TV. If they can find time for Penelope Ford & Bunny vs TayJay, why not that.
> 
> 3. Let's look at Hobbs he's been with the company since summer last year. Joined Team Taz in November last year. Can you honestly say from an in kayfabe sense he's really progressed in the last year. True he's had nice elbow rubs, but as you often point out with Cody and his opponents, what happens in the long run. Rubbing elbows is great, but if Team Taz never progresses beyond joke stable everybody but Cage beats, then does any of it even matter. As of now it doesn't really foreshadow anything big happening for Hobbs soon. Could Hobbs not at least be getting some say Wardlow type booking?


And so what if he hasn't progressed,there is plenty of people in aew that haven't progressed that are better


----------



## thisissting

Diversity my ass she was just fucking rotten end of!


----------



## BlueEyedDevil

I don't know what Cedric is smoking to find Big Troll attractive.


----------



## JasmineAEW

I think the bottom-line question is this:

Was Big Swole‘s lack of a big push in AEW the result of racism? Or lack of overall talent and charisma?

If the answer is the former, that would obviously be a problem. But I think it was the latter. Swole was decent enough at the start, but as the women’s division expanded and improved, her deficiencies made her expendable.


----------



## Seth Grimes

RapShepard said:


> Unless you are going to argue that people need to consume entertainment as if they're data robots you can't not include feelings in the discussion of representation in entertainment lol.
> 
> The proof comes down to what an individual values as true representation. If you believe representation is solved simply if something exists, then on that end sure AEW is crushing diversity and representation. If you believe representation needs to occupy positions of relevance to be truly counted and not feel token, then AEW needs some work. For some they might feel more black talent need to be getting treatment like Jade or the four pillars for it to be counted. For them that's valid.
> 
> To me there's no black talent I'm heads over heels for so I'm not up am arms. But I do think arguments like "well there's Jade, and Hobbs be scowling in the background and shit". Is hard to take serious for the case for diversity. I don't think it has to be world title type shit or bust. But once guys like Hobbs and a healed Starks start feeling like TNT title worthy or the Acclaimed feel like true tag contenders then the case for diversity to me shouldn't be up to debate.
> 
> As for why there aren't more black wrestlers, I'd assume it's because prior to recently there wasn't much proof that succeeding as a black wrestler was an easy thing. To take race out, the same way folk like HBK, Bret, and Owen showed a fuck ton of current wrestlers that they didn't have to be Hogan sized to make it. I think the current crop of black wrestlers showing there can be success and longevity in pro wrestling, it'll inspire more black athletes getting into wrestling thus increasing the talent lool.


Well yeah, you can, because it doesn't matter how someone "feels", if they're just plain wrong. Anti vaxxers can "feel" like the government is lying about us needing them, are you gonna say stats and facts don't matter when peoples feelings are involved here? As I've said (I'm having to repeat myself a lot here), it's irrelevant what she feels, if she is just plain wrong. Unless you are going to give us something concrete, what even is the point of this conversation? You need to provide proof that there is a lack of it, to back up your comments. 

Well as I've said, I don't even care about representation. I don't have deep feelings about seeing English people on American shows, or white people in anything, or men in anything. I watch a tonne of Korean movies, and not once have I ever thought "fuck man, wish there was some white people here". Never seen WWE and thought "fuck man, wish there was some English people here". So I'm asking you by your own standards to prove it. If your standards are "black wrestlers need to be in good positions, not just on TV", then you need to be able to prove that they actually deserve to be in those positions, or that isn't representation, that's forced diversity. You just wanna see black people dominate and prosper it sounds like, even if they don't deserve to. Which I guess comes from the fact you feel white people feel the same, well I can say for the most part, we don't, and if you do, there's likely some race superiority shit going on

You don't think so? The Rock is one of the most famous, if not the currently most famous wrestler that has existed, we've had crazy amounts of other black people in wrestling like Booker T, Mark Henry, Farooq, Ahmed Johnson, Shelton Benjamin, MVP, Kofi Kingston, D-Von, were they not inspiring people? How many people do you need to see like yourself on TV? You could make the argument that black people would like wrestling more if it were 100% of people that look like them, but obviously there is a point in which you say yeah, we're going to choose merit and talent, over representation. Do we also think that we should start forcing more white people into NBA so that white people will like it more? I will agree with you on that, but I definitely don't think that's the main reason. I'd say a good slice of black people who are talented athletically would rather go and play NBA or NFL, or just about any other full sport. Then I'd say another chunk aren't making it because they don't have the money for coaching, as the shit is very costly, and there isn't a way into wrestling like with other sports where you can join upto a team and prove your worth. Like everyone with a brain realises racism exists, but you can't just use that as an excuse for everything when you fail at something, unless you are able to prove that a large reason for you failing was your race.


----------



## shandcraig

RapShepard said:


> Anna isn't cute to me, though get conventionally she is attractive. Don't see the charisma in her. Though Dark Order hate could make me biased.
> 
> Agree Swole isn't attractive. Disagree she has no charisma. Open to the idea of her being an acquired taste. Like I think she'd be a perfect manager for her boring husband.



The point is not many people like swole and enough find Anna hot regardless if you do or dont. It's a sex driven business for women.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Rather than debating about Swole and denying what she said, the conversation should be about when will AEW actually get serious about a Latino or black world champion. You don't have a shortage of non-white talent that can shine: Starks, Andrade, Fenix, Penta.


----------



## The XL 2

RapShepard said:


> Anna isn't cute to me, though get conventionally she is attractive. Don't see the charisma in her. Though Dark Order hate could make me biased.
> 
> Agree Swole isn't attractive. Disagree she has no charisma. Open to the idea of her being an acquired taste. Like I think she'd be a perfect manager for her boring husband.


Anna isn't quite my cup of tea either, but she's objectively more attractive than Swole. Poll any race and age group and the majority would likely pick Anna. I don't think Anna is swimming in charisma or anything, but she has some. I don't see it in Swole. I think Swole was on the roster more or less as a charity case. 

Jade Cargill on the other had has one of the best looks in wrestling currently, a great presentation, God given athletic ability, size, etc. I don't think you'll catch anyone currently watching saying that Cargill is charity case. Swoll is just bitter because she sucks. It isn't a black or a white thing.


----------



## Seth Grimes

Krin said:


> lol they want it to be an "us vs. white people" situation. These people are warped. They think all minorities are some collective unit who all think alike and feel disenfranchised by whites.


So do you. You make no attempts to actually talk to people or have a discussion, all you do is flap your face about whatever it is that got you triggered today, and when people engage you, you run away cause god forbid you are proven wrong and have to actually stop playing into the race war that it seems so many people are intent on creating.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

if I had to choose a non-white male champion today - I would get Penta there with Alex in 2 months I think

problem is - I think Penta hates singles


----------



## shandcraig

The XL 2 said:


> Anna isn't quite my cup of tea either, but she's objectively more attractive than Swole. Poll any race and age group and the majority would likely pick Anna. I don't think Anna is swimming in charisma or anything, but she has some. I don't see it in Swole. I think Swole was on the roster more or less as a charity case.
> 
> Jade Cargill on the other had has one of the best looks in wrestling currently, a great presentation, God given athletic ability, size, etc. I don't think you'll catch anyone currently watching saying that Cargill is charity case. Swoll is just bitter because she sucks. It isn't a black or a white thing.


 We all know jades turn to be the women's face is coming down the road at some point. Clearly that's a charity case🤣,jokes


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> if I had to choose a non-white male champion today - I would get Penta there with Alex in 2 months I think
> 
> problem is - I think Penta hates singles


Jay Lethal is the correct answer here


----------



## RapShepard

Cult03 said:


> I can honestly say that wrestling needs to be the opposite. Larger than life characters that in no way resemble the normal people are what made this amazing to watch. They might do things we wish we could (attack our boss or something) but that’s more how we wish to be, not how we see ourselves. Wrestling started to suck when the wrestlers looked and sounded like the everyday man or woman.
> 
> I am genuinely curious. Do you believe Swole should be pushed because of her skill, ability and character work? Or would you prefer another black person to be pushed instead? If so, give an example and actually give ideas instead of just saying she’s right.


Agree on larger than characters, but those characters resembling or being relatable can help. I mean is Austin probably isn't as beloved if he was portrayed as a straight laced white collar guy that beat up his boss. That blue collar and beer guzzling helped

I wouldn't push Swole, it's just weird that arguments against diversity treat it as if "well we can't diversify if they're not the total packages". Take a Private Party, beginning they were pretty over, definitely work in progress types. Save injuries, maybe if they got more time working with the top tag teams and doing stories here and there, instead of anchored to bad Hardy comedy they might be on the way to ytag contender worthy like Jurassic Express finally is. 



The Legit Lioness said:


> *"If I was Black, I would have sold half.
> I didn't have to go to Lincoln High School to know that.
> But I could rap, so fuck school, I'm too cool to go back.
> Give me the mic, show me where the fucking studio's at."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Facts


----------



## Seth Grimes

The Legit Lioness said:


> *"If I was Black, I would have sold half.
> I didn't have to go to Lincoln High School to know that.
> But I could rap, so fuck school, I'm too cool to go back.
> Give me the mic, show me where the fucking studio's at."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Eminem the GOAT of rap and black community absolutely give him shit because he's white. Just because Eminem himself is saying it, doesn't make it true. Just like when black conservatives act like racism doesn't exist because they've personally never felt it's effect. This whole shit would only make sense if all white rappers were outselling black rappers on the whole, but they aren't. 









Eminem Listed Among US Best Selling Artists of 2021 | Eminem.Pro - the biggest and most trusted source of Eminem


With more albums sold in the US in the first half of 2021 than BTS, Eminem sits in the Top 10 of best selling artists and the Top 5 best selling rappers. @Chart Data published these rankings, showing Drake’s unwavering commercial dominance over the genre. With over 1.43 million album units sold...




eminem.news





Literally 1 white guy, and it has to be the GOAT. I don't see any other white people here? So this whole "if Em was black he wouldn't be so popular" just doesn't fit the shoe people try to shove it in. Weird that Em is pushed to GOAT status for being white, but Vanilla Ice is a laughing stock, Riff Raff is a laughing stock, Houe of Pain are a 1 hit wonder, Beastie Boys aren't rated that highly, Lil Dicky is a joke, Mackelmore had to go pop and gets no respect in the rap game, no one but Christians care about NF, MGK gets clowned on most of the time, and what other white rappers are there exactly right now popping the fuck off if it's so easy to be a white rapper? If you look at the rap game, and think white people are overrated, then you must honestly think that not a single white person can rap on the entire planet, it's a skill that only black people are good at.


----------



## Krin

Seth Grimes said:


> So do you. You make no attempts to actually talk to people or have a discussion, all you do is flap your face about whatever it is that got you triggered today, and when people engage you, you run away cause god forbid you are proven wrong and have to actually stop playing into the race war that it seems so many people are intent on creating.


hahahahahahah awww, Big Swole's only fan is mad 

that isn't true but the amount of triggered whining in this post amused me. thanks for the laugh


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

@Seth Grimes *You forgot Jack Harlow. He's respected in the hip hop community and Black women love him.







*


----------



## Seth Grimes

Krin said:


> hahahahahahah awww, Big Swole's only fan is mad
> 
> that isn't true but the amount of triggered whining in this post amused me. thanks for the laugh


You think I'm big Swole's fan? Proves you literally read fuck all, you just talk. You want a one way conversation.

Yes, I'm the one triggered, not you that jumps into every single political discussion to talk about "duh sjw's" about 40 times a week. Get a grip on reality, please.


----------



## shandcraig

Seth Grimes said:


> Eminem the GOAT of rap and black community absolutely give him shit because he's white. Just because Eminem himself is saying it, doesn't make it true. Just like when black conservatives act like racism doesn't exist because they've personally never felt it's effect. This whole shit would only make sense if all white rappers were outselling black rappers on the whole, but they aren't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eminem Listed Among US Best Selling Artists of 2021 | Eminem.Pro - the biggest and most trusted source of Eminem
> 
> 
> With more albums sold in the US in the first half of 2021 than BTS, Eminem sits in the Top 10 of best selling artists and the Top 5 best selling rappers. @Chart Data published these rankings, showing Drake’s unwavering commercial dominance over the genre. With over 1.43 million album units sold...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eminem.news
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Literally 1 white guy, and it has to be the GOAT. I don't see any other white people here? So this whole "if Em was black he wouldn't be so popular" just doesn't fit the shoe people try to shove it in. Weird that Em is pushed to GOAT status for being white, but Vanilla Ice is a laughing stock, Riff Raff is a laughing stock, Houe of Pain are a 1 hit wonder, Beastie Boys aren't rated that highly, Lil Dicky is a joke, Mackelmore had to go pop and gets no respect in the rap game, no one but Christians care about NF, MGK gets clowned on most of the time, and what other white rappers are there exactly right now popping the fuck off if it's so easy to be a white rapper? If you look at the rap game, and think white people are overrated, then you must honestly think that not a single white person can rap on the entire planet, it's a skill that only black people are good at.


White men can't jump


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Jay Lethal is the correct answer here


eehhhh… was never a fan TBH

the whole macho man thing was just ‘bleh’

no - the real answer for non-white i’ve decided is Cody

he’s half puerto rican


----------



## Seth Grimes

The Legit Lioness said:


> @Seth Grimes *You forgot Jack Harlow. He's respected in the hip hop community and Black women love him.
> View attachment 114206
> *


Forgot about him cause he's turning out to be a one hit wonder tbh


----------



## Chan Hung

Krin said:


> I think this is a great example of "everything woke turns to shit".
> 
> Tony Khan tried to make his company appealing to these social justice/ smark justice losers on Twitter and now he's not woke enough for their liking. Now his woke, progressive glorified indy company with entitled, indy talent is imploding on itself.
> 
> WWE would never stand for this shit. Once talent starts acting out on Twitter and tries to derail the company, they're not worth doing business with.


I agree that WWE would give no fucks and press on. 

I remember from the very beginning, AEW was doing pro inclusive marketing. It's ironic that now they are being blamed for a company that is not inclusive. Seems to me that no matter what, some people will try to use whatever 'card' they can to get sympathy. Looks like in this case, Tony but finally stood his ground and called out Swole saying he let her go basically since she sucked LMFAO.


----------



## Krin

Seth Grimes said:


> You think I'm big Swole's fan? Proves you literally read fuck all, you just talk. You want a one way conversation.
> 
> Yes, I'm the one triggered, not you that jumps into every single political discussion to talk about "duh sjw's" about 40 times a week. Get a grip on reality, please.


Yep, and I'll continue to mock idiotic SJWs like Big Swole, Lio Rush and the fake outrage on Twitter. 🤣 If that makes you upset, it probably means you agree with atleast some of their agenda.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Seth Grimes said:


> Forgot about him cause he's turning out to be a one hit wonder tbh


*Speaking of one hit wonders, what we not gon do, is act like "Wild Boy" wasn't the hottest song in rap 10 years ago. MGK never had another song at that level, and yes Eminem sent his ass running to heavy metal with a diss track, but you can't act like he wasn't boosted by being a white guy with a banger.*


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> 1. Scorpio Sky sucks to me. I wouldn't advocate for a Scorpio Sky push.


Again. This is my point. They have tried to make Scorpio Sky a household name, and he fails miserably. Like “Not very big Swole”. Like botchy ass Red Velvet. Like they are attempting to do with Jade Cargill and slowly but surely will do with Will Hobbs. 


RapShepard said:


> 2. Do you watch Dark? Because if not Swole vs Diamante was exclusive to that and at least the Dark watchers seemed to enjoy it. Actually had Black Wrestling Matters on trending off of Dark. Maybe it's something that could've worked on TV. If they can find time for Penelope Ford & Bunny vs TayJay, *why not that.*


Because while they won’t admit it, it’s the closest thing they have to objectifying women and sex selling. Something they also did with Riho.

Newsflash for Black America: put a Beyoncé in the middle of the ring, and she’ll get tv time if she sucks too.

And again, you refuse to address the fact that they did give Swole opportunities. She had more of a storyline feud with Britt Baker than any other female to date, even going as far as to do the stupid as fuck, WWE dumpster angle.

Like Scorpio Sky, she just wasn’t interesting, even with a Cody rHHHodes level bell and whistle.


RapShepard said:


> 3. Let's look at Hobbs he's been with the company since summer last year. Joined Team Taz in November last year. Can you honestly say from an in kayfabe sense he's really progressed in the last year. True he's had nice elbow rubs, but as you often point out with Cody and his opponents, what happens in the long run. Rubbing elbows is great, but if Team Taz never progresses beyond joke stable everybody but Cage beats, then does any of it even matter. As of now it doesn't really foreshadow anything big happening for Hobbs soon. Could Hobbs not at least be getting some say Wardlow type booking?


Should they have such young wrestlers immediately shooting up the card with high profile wins over their established stars? If so, then why didn’t they go ahead and put the fucking World Title on Jungle Boy’s waste when he faced Omega? Should Hollywood cry that they are unfairly misrepresented, too?

As for a Wardlow comparison, Wardlow didn’t even goddamn wrestle his first 4 months, ate a pin vs Cody, and was back to just being a big guy in a suit, and guess what? Right at 2 years later, the fans now feel some emotional investment in him, have grown attached to his squash matches, and are ready for him to do something meaningful. Should the millennial, hipster, man bun-wearing douchebags cry that they are unfairly misrepresented, too?


----------



## shandcraig

bdon said:


> Again. This is my point. They have tried to make Scorpio Sky a household name, and he fails miserably. Like “Not very big Swole”. Like botchy ass Red Velvet. Like they are attempting to do with Jade Cargill and slowly but surely will do with Will Hobbs.
> 
> Because while they won’t admit it, it’s the closest thing they have to objectifying women and sex selling. Something they also did with Riho.
> 
> Newsflash for Black America: put a Beyoncé in the middle of the ring, and she’ll get tv time if she sucks too.
> 
> And again, you refuse to address the fact that they did give Swole opportunities. She had more of a storyline feud with Britt Baker than any other female to date, even going as far as to do the stupid as fuck, WWE dumpster angle.
> 
> Like Scorpio Sky, she just wasn’t interesting, even with a Cody rHHHodes level bell and whistle.
> 
> Should they have such young wrestlers immediately shooting up the card with high profile wins over their established stars? If so, then why didn’t they go ahead and put the fucking World Title on Jungle Boy’s waste when he faced Omega? Should Hollywood cry that they are unfairly misrepresented, too?
> 
> As for a Wardlow comparison, Wardlow didn’t even goddamn wrestle his first 4 months, ate a pin vs Cody, and was back to just being a big guy in a suit, and guess what? Right at 2 years later, the fans now feel some emotional investment in him, have grown attached to his squash matches, and are ready for him to do something meaningful. Should the millennial, hipster, man bun-wearing douchebags cry that they are unfairly misrepresented, too?



I'd say Hobbs and cage are a better comparison and look at cage, he's in a much worse position.


----------



## Seth Grimes

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Speaking of one hit wonders, what we not gon do, is act like "Wild Boy" wasn't the hottest song in rap 10 years ago. MGK never had another song at that level, and yes Eminem sent his ass running to heavy metal with a diss track, but you can't act like he wasn't boosted by being a white guy with a banger.*


You did not just say MGK does heavy metal lmao it's punk rock. Eh, MGK's Hotel Diablo was a banger, he's likely just capitalising on the market for the punk rock sound that others also did like Trippie Redd on Pegasus. Avril Lavinge now tryna make a come back to that genre. Willow Smith released a punk rock album too this year. Wild Boy some trash music, no idea how anyone likes that. Some of the currently biggest MGK fans I know now don't even know Wild Boy, or the fact he did that kinda stuff, they thought he's new. I'm pretty sure MGK was also mocked for a long time for those songs he did. Not sure if MGK is a one hit wonder, he's got quite a few decently rated releases by this point. Why in the hell would you assume the fact he's white helped him? Slim Jesus released a similar song whilst being white and got fucking destroyed, and continues to this day because of how he looks. If he's black, he's probably got a fanbase by now. You're gonna need to do better than "two white rappers exist, it MUST be because they are white". Again, unless you want to say that white people cannot rap at all, why are you trying to say the only two famous white rappers, are only famous because they're white?



Krin said:


> Yep, and I'll continue to mock idiotic SJWs like Big Swole, Lio Rush and the fake outrage on Twitter. 🤣 If that makes you upset, it probably means you agree with atleast some of their agenda.


But you are also exactly like that. How are you not understanding the words I am saying to you. I am saying that you are just like them, you are an SJW. You constantly talk about social justice all the time, you use the same words, repeatedly, and you don't debate or have conversations with anyone because you know your arguments will fall apart. Ah please inform me, what is their great agenda Kringe?


----------



## Thomazbr

LifeInCattleClass said:


> if I had to choose a non-white male champion today - I would get Penta there with Alex in 2 months I think
> 
> problem is - I think Penta hates singles


Penta is too limited to be a singles champion.
Speaking as someone who watched all LU seasons.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Thomazbr said:


> Penta is too limited to be a singles champion.
> Speaking as someone who watched all LU seasons.


naaahhhhhjjjjjjjjhhhhhhhhhhahjsjsjsjsjs - Penta in LU was boss, c’mon now


----------



## Thomazbr

LifeInCattleClass said:


> naaahhhhhjjjjjjjjhhhhhhhhhhahjsjsjsjsjs - Penta in LU was boss, c’mon now


Nah dude, his champ run was pretty bad.
He is kind of a one trick guy, which y'know, fair enough he has the swagger and whatnot.
But I don't know if I would've put a big singles title on him.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Thomazbr said:


> Nah dude, his champ run was pretty bad.


before that - season 1 / and s2 - when he should‘ve been champ


----------



## Thomazbr

LifeInCattleClass said:


> before that - season 1 / and s2 - when he should‘ve been champ


Still tho, he would still be a limited guy.
Anyway that's just me. I think Fenix is more compelling to watch and whatnot, but at the end of the day Fenix is made of glass.


----------



## Thomazbr

Speaking of "white-passing" is Taz a black-passing white man?


----------



## One Shed

Thomazbr said:


> Speaking of "white-passing" is Taz a black-passing white man?


No one who ever tried to ask him his race was ever heard from again.


----------



## BlueEyedDevil

Thomazbr said:


> Speaking of "white-passing" is Taz a black-passing white man?


In the film True Romance Dennis Hopper’s character had a theory about Sicilians and unfortunately explained that theory to Christopher Walker’s character who was Sicilian.


----------



## RapShepard

Seth Grimes said:


> Well yeah, you can, because it doesn't matter how someone "feels", if they're just plain wrong. Anti vaxxers can "feel" like the government is lying about us needing them, are you gonna say stats and facts don't matter when peoples feelings are involved here? As I've said (I'm having to repeat myself a lot here), it's irrelevant what she feels, if she is just plain wrong. Unless you are going to give us something concrete, what even is the point of this conversation? You need to provide proof that there is a lack of it, to back up your comments.
> 
> *Well as I've said, I don't even care about representation. I don't have deep feelings about seeing English people on American shows, or white people in anything, or men in anything.* I watch a tonne of Korean movies, and not once have I ever thought "fuck man, wish there was some white people here". Never seen WWE and thought "fuck man, wish there was some English people here". So I'm asking you by your own standards to prove it. If your standards are "black wrestlers need to be in good positions, not just on TV", *then you need to be able to prove that they actually deserve to be in those positions*, or that isn't representation, that's forced diversity. You just wanna see black people dominate and prosper it sounds like, even if they don't deserve to. Which I guess comes from the fact you feel white people feel the same, well I can say for the most part, we don't, and if you do, there's likely some race superiority shit going on
> 
> You don't think so? The Rock is one of the most famous, if not the currently most famous wrestler that has existed, we've had crazy amounts of other black people in wrestling like Booker T, Mark Henry, Farooq, Ahmed Johnson, Shelton Benjamin, MVP, Kofi Kingston, D-Von, were they not inspiring people? How many people do you need to see like yourself on TV? You could make the argument that black people would like wrestling more if it were 100% of people that look like them, but obviously there is a point in which you say yeah, we're going to choose merit and talent, over representation. Do we also think that we should start forcing more white people into NBA so that white people will like it more? I will agree with you on that, but I definitely don't think that's the main reason. I'd say a good slice of black people who are talented athletically would rather go and play NBA or NFL, or just about any other full sport. Then I'd say another chunk aren't making it because they don't have the money for coaching, as the shit is very costly, and there isn't a way into wrestling like with other sports where you can join upto a team and prove your worth. Like everyone with a brain realises racism exists, but you can't just use that as an excuse for everything when you fail at something, unless you are able to prove that a large reason for you failing was your race.


You not caring about representation, doesn't mean others can't. The idea you think people need a circle graph to justify wanting to feel represented is wild. 

Me my standards I think representation is solid in the business especially WWE given some of the roles black talent have I'd give an A. In AEW I'd like to see more black talent I can get into, but there's something there C. But I don't get to tell other black folk "hey shut up now you can't want to see more black wrestlers or black wrestlers in better roles.". 

The 2nd bolded has the problem in unless you can prove every white male talent that's ever been pushed in high places has deserved it solely on merit, it's inappropriate to then say you can only diversify if the candidate is perfect based on merit.


How much diversity do you need idk. But I feel more represented now than I did as a kid and teen.


----------



## AthleticGirth

BlueEyedDevil said:


> In the film True Romance Dennis Hopper’s character had a theory about Sicilians and unfortunately explained that theory to Christopher Walker’s character who was Sicilian.


Modern day North Africans, Iranians and Turks all invaded and plundered Europe - so it's no surprise a bit of seed was spilt. Taz however is 100% Suntanbedian.


----------



## Sad Panda

BlueEyedDevil said:


> In the film True Romance Dennis Hopper’s character had a theory about Sicilians and unfortunately explained that theory to Christopher Walker’s character who was Sicilian.



Such a fantastic scene.


----------



## Thomazbr

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477403182267617281


----------



## BlueEyedDevil

AthleticGirth said:


> Modern day North Africans, Iranians and Turks all invaded and plundered Europe - so it's no surprise a bit of seed was spilt. Taz however is 100% Suntanbedian.


Taz's racial appropriation was via a tanning bed twice a day.

I think people scratch their head the same way when Dan "Man From Minecraft" Bongino says he's Italian too.


----------



## DRose1994

I feel like she just has a warped, off base perception of what the wrestling business is, and how it should be. It isn’t a business centered around including people for the sake of including them, or about handing out participation awards — you need to be deserving of a spot. You do something for the company in terms of putting butts in seats, moving merchandise, boosting ratings.

Yes the EVP’s are all white males, and by no stretch of the imagination have they gotten it all right but diversity isn’t a point of contention for me. Half of the first tag team champion(s) was a black wrestler - Scorpio Sky. The current tag champions are Mexican. Kenny has been notorious for and synonymous with (over) pushing Japanese female wrestlers.


Mister Sinister said:


> Rather than debating about Swole and denying what she said, the conversation should be about when will AEW actually get serious about a Latino or black world champion. You don't have a shortage of non-white talent that can shine: Starks, Andrade, Fenix, Penta.


The conversation is open and has been opened. People have spoken extremely highly of Hobbs, and believe he has the potential to main event PPV’s and be a world champion — but he’s not there yet. Andrade is great in the ring, and has a look/presence about him, but he’s missing something as of now. Fenix isn’t nearly the well rounded performer that would see him pushed to the main event singles scene.

Starks/Hobbs have main event, world title level potential, but neither guy feels organically ready at the moment. Don’t do it for the sake of doing it — for inclusion or to give out a participation award — do it when they’re ready and it makes sense. You have guys that happen to be white that are more over and experienced and better at the moment, that look to be next in line — Punk, Bryan, MJF, but it doesn’t mean they won’t get the opportunity when the times right.

I hate the idea of declaring “these black performers aren’t getting the chance/opportunity.” When the question should be are they deserving of it in this moment ? And the answer is no, not just yet. I’m a proponent of all around performers being your champions, so if AEW had black wrestlers near the quality and experience of a Lashley, Moose, _maybe_ Big E, and they were boggling them, then okay. But that’s not the case. A year - year and a half ago, no one knew who Hobbs was, and fast forward a year and he’s worked with Taz, gotten some good wins, been presented seriously, and even had a program with Punk. Same with Starks: he was given this opportunity that he wouldn’t have been elsewhere to showcase his skills, and it’s not like they put a ceiling on him.


----------



## somerandomfan

Thomazbr said:


> Penta is too limited to be a singles champion.
> Speaking as someone who watched all LU seasons.


Didn't watch as much LU as I should have but his limited English made his time in Impact around the main event underwhelming since they couldn't do as much in the story department as they could have.


----------



## Seth Grimes

RapShepard said:


> You not caring about representation, doesn't mean others can't. The idea you think people need a circle graph to justify wanting to feel represented is wild.
> 
> Me my standards I think representation is solid in the business especially WWE given some of the roles black talent have I'd give an A. In AEW I'd like to see more black talent I can get into, but there's something there C. But I don't get to tell other black folk "hey shut up now you can't want to see more black wrestlers or black wrestlers in better roles.".
> 
> The 2nd bolded has the problem in unless you can prove every white male talent that's ever been pushed in high places has deserved it solely on merit, it's inappropriate to then say you can only diversify if the candidate is perfect based on merit.
> 
> How much diversity do you need idk. But I feel more represented now than I did as a kid and teen.


I'm saying a lot of people don't, and that's probably for the better if you aren't constantly wearing your identity as your personality. I'm saying they need it to justify not already having representation.

I think you definitely can, just like you can tell white folk to shut up if they ask for more representation in WWE.

I'm not saying that, I'm saying it's already diversified, and you want to diversify it even more, despite the talent that they have. I am specifically asking you to because you are claiming black people should be in better positions not just "there", but do they deserve to be there? It's on you to back up what you claim. If I claimed white people were underrepresented, and felt that was completely down to race, then yeah I would also need to justify why I think they deserve to be higher up. Like why do you think you don't see me bringing up English wrestlers ever? Do I recognise the American bias they may have in American businesses? Maybe. But maybe it's because our English isn't as clean as yours, it's less understandable, maybe it's because we have shitter coaches, maybe we don't want to become wrestlers as much as Americans. Many things can go into this, so if I were to claim "yeah, race is what's holding the English back", then it'd be on me to prove that beyond just a 'because we feel like it'. People feel a lot of things, and not every feeling has the same importance. If we flip it to somewhere dominated by black people, would you be okay with throwing a few people out of the NBA so that white people and asian people can get more representation?

Yeah, and you can see that's because the talent has risen across the board. But I'd also say a part of that could be the branding power of pushing LGBT/minorities into your business. You guys 100% benefit from that kinda thing.


----------



## Scholes18

So it’s basically I’m untalented and the fans don’t want me around but I’m black so you should give me a push and title because of my skin colour. What a shit bag.


----------



## Geeee

I thought that this discussion on Fightful about the subject was really good. The hosts are all black and employed in the wrestling industry, so their perspective was excellent IMO. Plus, they had The Captain Shawn Dean on, who works with AEW not just as an enhancement talent but also in a backstage role for Dark and Elevation.


----------



## Seth Grimes

Thomazbr said:


> Speaking of "white-passing" is Taz a black-passing white man?


Wait, Taz isn't black?! Wtf


----------



## BlueEyedDevil

Seth Grimes said:


> Wait, Taz isn't black?! Wtf


----------



## One Shed

Seth Grimes said:


> Wait, Taz isn't black?! Wtf


Someone also told me Hogan was not really orange.


----------



## RapShepard

Seth Grimes said:


> I'm saying a lot of people don't, and that's probably for the better if you aren't constantly wearing your identity as your personality. I'm saying they need it to justify not already having representation.
> 
> I think you definitely can, just like you can tell white folk to shut up if they ask for more representation in WWE.
> 
> I'm not saying that, I'm saying it's already diversified, and you want to diversify it even more, despite the talent that they have. I am specifically asking you to because you are claiming black people should be in better positions not just "there", but do they deserve to be there? It's on you to back up what you claim. If I claimed white people were underrepresented, and felt that was completely down to race, then yeah I would also need to justify why I think they deserve to be higher up. Like why do you think you don't see me bringing up English wrestlers ever? Do I recognise the American bias they may have in American businesses? Maybe. But maybe it's because our English isn't as clean as yours, it's less understandable, maybe it's because we have shitter coaches, maybe we don't want to become wrestlers as much as Americans. Many things can go into this, so if I were to claim "yeah, race is what's holding the English back", then it'd be on me to prove that beyond just a 'because we feel like it'. People feel a lot of things, and not every feeling has the same importance. If we flip it to somewhere dominated by black people, would you be okay with throwing a few people out of the NBA so that white people and asian people can get more representation?
> 
> Yeah, and you can see that's because the talent has risen across the board. But I'd also say a part of that could be the branding power of pushing LGBT/minorities into your business. You guys 100% benefit from that kinda thing.


Are you a minority in your country of residence?

What you define as diverse enough doesn't dictate what others find as diverse enough. The deserving shit only works if we're working on the premise that success in wrestling has only ever been determined by merit and respect.


----------



## shandcraig

taz is his own entire race


----------



## Seth Grimes

RapShepard said:


> Are you a minority in your country of residence?
> 
> What you define as diverse enough doesn't dictate what others find as diverse enough. The deserving shit only works if we're working on the premise that success in wrestling has only ever been determined by merit and respect.


No?

We've already defined your idea of diversity, which is the setting we're talking about. You said black people in meaningful positions, I said you need to actually deserve to be there, otherwise it's not about representation, it's forced diversity, or simply domination. Nah there's been a tonne of nepotism, too. But again, I've said people like Nyla, Sonny Kiss, and Swole all possibly got the job merely for their identity. You think Sasha and Bianca main evented WMDay1 for any reason other than the headline "first all black WM headliner"? Your identity 100% helps you in this day and age. Again, should we start forcing more non-black people into NBA because they're underrepresented? Is Jokic not being respected in the NBA scene because he's white?


----------



## BlueEyedDevil

If anyone has the right to consider himself Orange it would be Taz although he likes to be the token Orangutan.


----------



## shandcraig




----------



## bdon

@RapShepard 

Since you’re on the virtue signaling, please tell us who should be getting the TV time then…


----------



## RapShepard

Seth Grimes said:


> No?
> 
> We've already defined your idea of diversity, which is the setting we're talking about. You said black people in meaningful positions, I said you need to actually deserve to be there, otherwise it's not about representation, it's forced diversity, or simply domination. Nah there's been a tonne of nepotism, too. But again, I've said people like Nyla, Sonny Kiss, and Swole all possibly got the job merely for their identity. You think Sasha and Bianca main evented WMDay1 for any reason other than the headline "first all black WM headliner"? Your identity 100% helps you in this day and age. Again, should we start forcing more non-black people into NBA because they're underrepresented? Is Jokic not being respected in the NBA scene because he's white?


Why didn't Bianca and Sasha deserve to main event Night 1. They're over, the story was over, and Sasha in particular is a draw. Now them being able to tout "1st black women to main event Mania" certainly helps PR. But for somebody demanding merit for diversity to exist, hard to argue Sasha and Bel-Air didn't have a case for deserving the main event. Unless you're arguing Bad Bunny should've main evented since he was the biggest overall star. 

Jokic is definitely underappreciated because he's white. Same as your earlier point Em gets some black pushback solely because he's white.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> @RapShepard
> 
> Since you’re on the virtue signaling, please tell us who should be getting the TV time then…


Again wrestling has never had a problem featuring mediocre white talent. Let mediocre black talent cook too.


----------



## ProjectGargano

RapShepard said:


> Again wrestling has never had a problem featuring mediocre white talent. Let mediocre black talent cook too.


AEW has mediocre white talent in good positions. It´s normal having more mediocre white talent because black people are only 14% on USA and many times the talented black people prefer other sports (Basketball or Football).


----------



## shandcraig

ProjectGargano said:


> AEW has mediocre white talent in good positions. It´s normal having more mediocre white talent because black people are only 14% on USA.



dont forget that the majority of its viewership is also white.


----------



## RapShepard

ProjectGargano said:


> AEW has mediocre white talent in good positions. It´s normal having more mediocre white talent because black people are only 14% on USA.


So can some mediocre black talent cook without the "are you a possible mega star" check list being busted open lol.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Again wrestling has never had a problem featuring mediocre white talent. Let mediocre black talent cook too.


Hello Scorpio Sky. Hello Jade Cargill and Will Hobbs while learning to walk with such little experience.

Now you can tell me that they’re not featured the way YOU want them to be featured, so again, answer the question: who should be featured that isn’t..?


----------



## BlueEyedDevil

If Swole feels she is such a hot commodity with great ideas she should start her own Swole Jabroni Wrestling and see how many dollars sail her way. Virgil will be the GM and PPVs will be hosted inside The Olive Garden.


----------



## Sad Panda

BlueEyedDevil said:


> If Swole feels she is such a hot commodity with great ideas she should start her own Swole Jabroni Wrestling and see how many dollars sail her way. Virgil will be the GM and PPVs will be hosted inside The Olive Garden.


To be fair that doesn’t sound THAT bad. Unlimited breadsticks always wins out.


----------



## Ratedr4life

Diversity for the sake of diversity doesn't mean shit. There are loads of talented minorities in AEW and in due time they will develop into stars. Big Swole was never one of them, I'm sorry to her, but she just doesn't have the talent to hold up to the other women in the division or other performers on the show.

AEW has created a creative environment that allows wrestlers a little more freedom with their characters and stories, if Big Swole needs the structure of scripted promos, for people to tell her what her character is and for someone to push her because of the color of her skin, she should tryout for WWE.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Hello Scorpio Sky. Hello Jade Cargill and Will Hobbs while learning to walk with such little experience.
> 
> Now you can tell me that they’re not featured the way YOU want them to be featured, so again, answer the question: who should be featured that isn’t..?


Do you not have the ability to understand opinions that aren't your own? I don't have to personally feel there's some huge under serving goin on to see how others could easily view it that way. You if anybody should understand how featuring can shape perception. After all you feel despite his actual placements the way Cody is featured means he's not just some midcarder guy



I'd personally would have given Private Party more quality burn so they'd be further along. I'd like to see The Acclaimed move into true contender status soon.


----------



## Thomazbr

somerandomfan said:


> Didn't watch as much LU as I should have but his limited English made his time in Impact around the main event underwhelming since they couldn't do as much in the story department as they could have.


That shouldn't really bother because LU had subtitles on and even then two of the champions there were basically mute characters (Prince Puma and Mil Muertes).
He just really wasn't much of a compelling champion.


----------



## WrestleFAQ

What about Richochet? Is he black, or is he whatever race Taz and Dan Bongino are?


----------



## Krin

looking forward to the Jim Cornette response to this, hopefully it will be as funny as the Hannibal one.


----------



## One Shed

WrestleFAQ said:


> What about Richochet? Is he black, or is he whatever race Taz and Dan Bongino are?


Flipochet is thankfully not in AEW.


----------



## BlueEyedDevil

If Dan Bongino were in Deadwood Swearengen would consider him a Squarehead.


----------



## Seth Grimes

RapShepard said:


> Why didn't Bianca and Sasha deserve to main event Night 1. They're over, the story was over, and Sasha in particular is a draw. Now them being able to tout "1st black women to main event Mania" certainly helps PR. But for somebody demanding merit for diversity to exist, hard to argue Sasha and Bel-Air didn't have a case for deserving the main event. Unless you're arguing Bad Bunny should've main evented since he was the biggest overall star.
> 
> Jokic is definitely underappreciated because he's white. Same as your earlier point Em gets some black pushback solely because he's white.


Hm, I wouldn't say the story was over, personally. Bayley and Bianca had a far better build and story. Bianca I'm not sure has ever been over, either? I feel it's always her opponents are just hated and want to see someone slap them. Hard to judge, I think she's liked, but no one loves her. Sasha is brilliant for sure she deserved it. I'm not saying that there isn't a world where they got it because of their race only, but I also wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly why. I just used it as an example of something that you could debate about at least, like I'd say both sides hold weight in whether that headline helped them get that spot or not. Same with Big E, you could argue his race helped him a lot, after being outperformed by Apollo in the mid card, but I also think they were just willing to throw him in at the deep end and hope to god he could swim. But yeah, my claim would be hard to prove if I fully believed it and claimed it, but mostly it's just a thought that I feel could be right, although I'm not gonna care for it until something substantial comes out to prove it. Whereas it seems you actually do believe race hurts black talent maybe more so in AEW. In WWE I think they genuinely have the talent, because they hoarded it and are obviously gonna get the best picks, so they don't even really need to force it, they luckily have the best. AEW though, after seeing people like Lio Rush, Sonny Kiss, Nyla, and Swole, I genuinely think they signed them for their identities as being black/LGBT. Scorpio I think you're right with him, it's about who his friends are, not his race. I just believe that race hasn't got much, or nothing to do with it, and it's just a matter of smaller talent pool due to less average earnings for coaching, and all the best athletes deciding to choose better careers like NFL/NBA. When people like Swole pull out the race card for this, it really stinks when there is almost no proof for these claims, and they are pretty hefty. They will 100% cause a shit tonne of racial tension, and all because she hasn't the balls to look at herself and be honest that she simply sucked. And on top of that, it's completely okay to admit that there just aren't enough black people involved in wrestling to have great talent in AEW and WWE, same reason I think AEW women's division is so bad, because WWE already has all of them.

Maybe, I think it's mostly cause he's fucking boring as a character, and his ball game is super practical with no flair or flashiness. I was just bringing up him as an example that there can be other aspects outside of race of why someone isn't where they think they should be. Yeah, like damn, guy is legit the only white rapper that can even get into a GOAT discussion, sad times for white identitarians haha


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Do you not have the ability to understand opinions that aren't your own? I don't have to personally feel there's some huge under serving goin on to see how others could easily view it that way. You if anybody should understand how featuring can shape perception. After all you feel despite his actual placements the way Cody is featured means he's not just some midcarder guy
> 
> 
> 
> I'd personally would have given Private Party more quality burn so they'd be further along. I'd like to see The Acclaimed move into true contender status soon.


No, I agree. It would be great to have a strong black man in a position of power on the show, but currently there isn’t anyone deserving of that. Will Hobbs has been getting that attention and will continue to grow. Scorpio Sky continues getting pushed into that position.

If you want to cry about it, provide a solution, otherwise get the fuck out of the way and let those trying to make a change and better themselves do so and further the movement.

Shawn Dean said it best…


----------



## ShadowCounter

RapShepard said:


> Take a Private Party, beginning they were pretty over, definitely work in progress types. Save injuries, maybe if they got more time working with the top tag teams and doing stories here and there, instead of anchored to bad Hardy comedy they might be on the way to ytag contender worthy like Jurassic Express finally is.


And again, bad example. Isiah Cassidy and most especially Marq Quen have been injured multiple times this (last) year. Hard to push a tag team when half of it is on the shelf. It's why Dante is getting shine but not the full spotlight. He's a tag team wrestler. That's his job. He's just in a holding pattern with Lio until his brother comes back. At that point I imagine they'll start getting pushed toward tag gold. After the ring rust comes off of course.


----------



## midgetlover69

Leave it to tony kahn to start the new year getting exposed. And by big swole of all people. Huge L!


----------



## RapShepard

Seth Grimes said:


> Hm, I wouldn't say the story was over, personally. Bayley and Bianca had a far better build and story. Bianca I'm not sure has ever been over, either? I feel it's always her opponents are just hated and want to see someone slap them. Hard to judge, I think she's liked, but no one loves her. Sasha is brilliant for sure she deserved it. I'm not saying that there isn't a world where they got it because of their race only, but I also wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly why. I just used it as an example of something that you could debate about at least, like I'd say both sides hold weight in whether that headline helped them get that spot or not. Same with Big E, you could argue his race helped him a lot, after being outperformed by Apollo in the mid card, but I also think they were just willing to throw him in at the deep end and hope to god he could swim. But yeah, my claim would be hard to prove if I fully believed it and claimed it, but mostly it's just a thought that I feel could be right, although I'm not gonna care for it until something substantial comes out to prove it. Whereas it seems you actually do believe race hurts black talent maybe more so in AEW. In WWE I think they genuinely have the talent, because they hoarded it and are obviously gonna get the best picks, so they don't even really need to force it, they luckily have the best. AEW though, after seeing people like Lio Rush, Sonny Kiss, Nyla, and Swole, I genuinely think they signed them for their identities as being black/LGBT. Scorpio I think you're right with him, it's about who his friends are, not his race. I just believe that race hasn't got much, or nothing to do with it, and it's just a matter of smaller talent pool due to less average earnings for coaching, and all the best athletes deciding to choose better careers like NFL/NBA. When people like Swole pull out the race card for this, it really stinks when there is almost no proof for these claims, and they are pretty hefty. They will 100% cause a shit tonne of racial tension, and all because she hasn't the balls to look at herself and be honest that she simply sucked. And on top of that, it's completely okay to admit that there just aren't enough black people involved in wrestling to have great talent in AEW and WWE, same reason I think AEW women's division is so bad, because WWE already has all of them.
> 
> Maybe, I think it's mostly cause he's fucking boring as a character, and his ball game is super practical with no flair or flashiness. I was just bringing up him as an example that there can be other aspects outside of race of why someone isn't where they think they should be. Yeah, like damn, guy is legit the only white rapper that can even get into a GOAT discussion, sad times for white identitarians haha


Bianca gets good reactions with fans. She has got some very good outside media looks. Like OC and Darby, she has fans that dress like her. Those are things that to me would suggest somebody's that's pretty loved. 

But that questioning of Bianca is kinda where the questioning comes from. It's like the calls for diversity are answered with, well earn it you shouldn't get things just for your gender or race. Then even when it's earned it's dismissed and questioned with "well was it really earned". 

Then it's the whole "I don't see race and gender, I don't run around thinking about identity thing". Which is hard to take serious from the majority that's well represented. It's also funny to see that message put out when"omg why they putting all this women shit, black shit, and LBGT shit in the media" talks are super easy to find. 

So it's damned if you do damned if you don't.


----------



## shandcraig

RapShepard said:


> Bianca gets good reactions with fans. She has got some very good outside media looks. Like OC and Darby, she has fans that dress like her. Those are things that to me would suggest somebody's that's pretty loved.
> 
> But that questioning of Bianca is kinda where the questioning comes from. It's like the calls for diversity are answered with, well earn it you shouldn't get things just for your gender or race. Then even when it's earned it's dismissed and questioned with "well was it really earned".
> 
> Then it's the whole "I don't see race and gender, I don't run around thinking about identity thing". Which is hard to take serious from the majority that's well represented. It's also funny to see that message put out when"omg why they putting all this women shit, black shit, and LBGT shit in the media" talks are super easy to find.
> 
> So it's damned if you do damned if you don't.



didnt that person get released ?


----------



## RapShepard

shandcraig said:


> didnt that person get released ?


Bianca no, unless some shit happened today


----------



## shandcraig

RapShepard said:


> Bianca no, unless some shit happened today



lol sorry must be thinking of someone else.


----------



## RapShepard

shandcraig said:


> lol sorry must be thinking of someone else.


B Fab probably. She got called up and released immediately


----------



## Bit Bitterson

47 pages. Goodness me. 

I’m black, and love seeing black wrestlers, but I do not advocate for pushing a black wrestler just because they are black.

Also, diversity seems to reference only black people for Swole. I think she has a point to make, but ..


----------



## Seth Grimes

RapShepard said:


> Bianca gets good reactions with fans. She has got some very good outside media looks. Like OC and Darby, she has fans that dress like her. Those are things that to me would suggest somebody's that's pretty loved.
> 
> But that questioning of Bianca is kinda where the questioning comes from. It's like the calls for diversity are answered with, well earn it you shouldn't get things just for your gender or race. Then even when it's earned it's dismissed and questioned with "well was it really earned".
> 
> Then it's the whole "I don't see race and gender, I don't run around thinking about identity thing". Which is hard to take serious from the majority that's well represented. It's also funny to see that message put out when"omg why they putting all this women shit, black shit, and LBGT shit in the media" talks are super easy to find.
> 
> So it's damned if you do damned if you don't.


Yeah she does alright for herself I think, but I'm not sure many see her as a main eventer, let alone main eventing Wrestlemania levels. I assume Sasha was more of the reason they got that spot. 

Yeah, that's because of the identity politics that has become insanely popular now. So it's gonna happen, and will happen even more when clearly shitters like Swole wanna claim that. Jade might have won the belt, but now cause of Swole some people will suspect they did it just because of what Swole said. 

But I'm not the majority that's well represented, I don't get to see any Englishmen at all in the big league wrestling shows. We rarely are in American TV unless to play some sort of posh twat. And our music is constantly shunned by NA claiming we can't be understood, yet people like Young Thug and Future are huge. I am able to relate to a black Englishman 100x more than any white American. But I don't personally need any of that, it doesn't bother me a great deal. I don't watch NBA and wanna see English people or white people. I don't watch Korean/Japanese tv and hope to see anyone that looks like me. Yeah those talks will increase too as media becomes less and less representative of the majority of the people in the country they're made. Cause as I said, imo black people are well represented in media, yet here we are still asking for more, and we're gonna end up with a huge overrepresentation if we keep going like this


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> Even Em himself has spoken at length about how him being white was definitely a plus. Now of course he's also skilled, but once he broke through that shit helped.
> 
> Also aye if you don't want to ask for more things you feel represent you fine. But if you did don't you think it'd be weird for folk to then start telling you you're a sucky asshole for wanting that


Yeah no doubt Eminem got a boost for being white and played into it.




"Look at these eyes, baby blue, baby just like yourself If they were brown Shady'd lose, Shady sits on the shelf But Shady's cute, Shady knew Shady's dimples would help Make ladies swoon baby (ooh baby!) Look at my sales."



My eyes aren't blue, they've been black and soulless my entire life; at this point in my life I'm no longer cute and ain't got no dimples. I don't call anybody shit at this point because we're all stuck in the struggle togeather, and life shouldn't be about inflicting pain on other people. 

But at the same time people fighting this hard over colour or creed!? That shit is a fucking wank pheasant _going_ *nowhere! *


----------



## RapShepard

Seth Grimes said:


> Yeah she does alright for herself I think, but I'm not sure many see her as a main eventer, let alone main eventing Wrestlemania levels. I assume Sasha was more of the reason they got that spot.
> 
> Yeah, that's because of the identity politics that has become insanely popular now. So it's gonna happen, and will happen even more when clearly shitters like Swole wanna claim that. Jade might have won the belt, but now cause of Swole some people will suspect they did it just because of what Swole said.
> 
> But I'm not the majority that's well represented, I don't get to see any Englishmen at all in the big league wrestling shows. We rarely are in American TV unless to play some sort of posh twat. And our music is constantly shunned by NA claiming we can't be understood, yet people like Young Thug and Future are huge. I am able to relate to a black Englishman 100x more than any white American. But I don't personally need any of that, it doesn't bother me a great deal. I don't watch NBA and wanna see English people or white people. I don't watch Korean/Japanese tv and hope to see anyone that looks like me. Yeah those talks will increase too as media becomes less and less representative of the majority of the people in the country they're made. Cause as I said, imo black people are well represented in media, yet here we are still asking for more, and we're gonna end up with a huge overrepresentation if we keep going like this


But you can see how it's different to expect more coverage of yourself in media where you're from than where you're not. A black US citizen wanting more representation in US media makes a lot more sense than, expecting black US representation in Korean television. 

With the main event thing, she won the Rumble, she is over, her opponent is over as hell. Sounds like a solid reason to main event


----------



## CM Buck

RapShepard said:


> B Fab probably. She got called up and released immediately


God I hope Strickland gets a look from tone deaf tony


----------



## RapShepard

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Yeah no doubt Eminem got a boost for being white and played into it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Look at these eyes, baby blue, baby just like yourself If they were brown Shady'd lose, Shady sits on the shelf But Shady's cute, Shady knew Shady's dimples would help Make ladies swoon baby (ooh baby!) Look at my sales."
> 
> 
> 
> My eyes aren't blue, they've been black and soulless my entire life; at this point in my life I'm no longer cute and ain't got no dimples. I don't call anybody shit at this point because we're all stuck in the struggle togeather, and life shouldn't be about inflicting pain on other people.
> 
> But at the same time people fighting this hard over colour or creed!? That shit is a fucking wank pheasant _going_ *nowhere! *


Got to fight over something, peace and getting along, understanding and being mindful of others just [emoji1785].


Firefromthegods said:


> God I hope Strickland gets a look from tone deaf tony


Same I want to see Hit Row realign somewhere. Hell I'd even root for them getting the Zelina Vega treatment


----------



## Seth Grimes

RapShepard said:


> But you can see how it's different to expect more coverage of yourself in media where you're from than where you're not. A black US citizen wanting more representation in US media makes a lot more sense than, expecting black US representation in Korean television.
> 
> With the main event thing, she won the Rumble, she is over, her opponent is over as hell. Sounds like a solid reason to main event


In a way I guess yeah. We do have problems like the place you live here could be make or break on going to a wrestling school, like where I'm living now, there's almost no chance for me to taking classes unless I'm willing to spend £150-250 a month. Pete Dunne imo you could debate about, guy is good enough to be a mid carder on the main shows imo, but he isn't called up because of his height I think. WWE have NXT UK ofc which almost none of them have ever ended up on RAW/SD. But yeah it is what is it.

Yeah those things definitely played their parts


----------



## RapShepard

Seth Grimes said:


> In a way I guess yeah. We do have problems like the place you live here could be make or break on going to a wrestling school, like where I'm living now, there's almost no chance for me to taking classes unless I'm willing to spend £150-250 a month. Pete Dunne imo you could debate about, guy is good enough to be a mid carder on the main shows imo, but he isn't called up because of his height I think. WWE have NXT UK ofc which almost none of them have ever ended up on RAW/SD. But yeah it is what is it.
> 
> Yeah those things definitely played their parts


I'm of the mindset it's a shame he hasn't been NXT champ once and he's main event worthy regardless of brand. He's small, but with him being so mat based and joint manipulation focused I could buy him beating anybody. Despite being well aware it's work, his joint shit is still wince worthy because you can imagine it going left so easy.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> Got to fight over something, peace and getting along, understanding and being mindful of others just [emoji1785]. Same I want to see Hit Row realign somewhere. Hell I'd even root for them getting the Zelina Vega treatment


Yeah I know, people that don't fight about stupid shit are kind of frustrating 😤

Gotta get the fires going 😳😩😫😖😣😭😠😡🤬🤢🥶🥺😥🤮🤧👿😐🤬🥵👺👹🥴🤠🤑😬😱💩👻

Love you dude, best wishes for the new year!


----------



## CM Buck

RapShepard said:


> Got to fight over something, peace and getting along, understanding and being mindful of others just [emoji1785]. Same I want to see Hit Row realign somewhere. Hell I'd even root for them getting the Zelina Vega treatment


It would be straight criminal if tankman, Alex Kane and Myron reed never got looked at either


----------



## Seth Grimes

RapShepard said:


> I'm of the mindset it's a shame he hasn't been NXT champ once and he's main event worthy regardless of brand. He's small, but with him being so mat based and joint manipulation focused I could buy him beating anybody. Despite being well aware it's work, his joint shit is still wince worthy because you can imagine it going left so easy.


Yeah pretty sad, cause the guy is actually pretty talented I think. I'm a size guy, but you are right, he can 100% use his highly unique wrestling style to make it believable in how he beat bigger guys. He is young, so let's hope he will get a chance one day.


----------



## RapShepard

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Yeah I know, people that don't fight about stupid shit are kind of frustrating
> 
> Gotta get the fires going
> 
> Love you dude, best wishes for the new year!


I respond to your love with senseless hate lol


----------



## Ultimo Duggan

I just recently saw the Tooth and Nail Match. Everyone who voted to put it on the main show should probably suffer some sort of retribution for what they did. Swole had bad offence in the ring. In the office setting she was actually worse. Dr. Britt did not help things much either. Big Swole was always so erratic with her finish. 

Some of the less consistent wrestlers in AEW seem to get special camera work. Moves like Swole’s Dirty Dancing eventually get such an angle that it both covers up any minor mistakes while obscuring it to the point of abstraction. Big Swole got that treatment for most moves. 

I always liked Swole’s look. The trio with KiLynn King and Red Velvet they booked sometimes. The women’s trios matches now usually have more than KiLynn King on one side to work with.


----------



## RapShepard

Firefromthegods said:


> It would be straight criminal if tankman, Alex Kane and Myron reed never got looked at either


Agreed


Seth Grimes said:


> Yeah pretty sad, cause the guy is actually pretty talented I think. I'm a size guy, but you are right, he can 100% use his highly unique wrestling style to make it believable in how he beat bigger guys. He is young, so let's hope he will get a chance one day.


Now as a lifelong Kane stan that believed that maybe just maybe, every time he got heated up I never call quits on folk. 

But I think they're dangerously close to having Pete fail so often in the big one that he might get into the Braun territory where folk just are beyond it.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> I respond to your love with senseless hate lol


----------



## RapShepard

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


>


 the fuck is this from lol


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> the fuck is this from lol


The original Arthur movie from 1981. 

Good shit brother!


----------



## RapShepard

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> The original Arthur movie from 1981.
> 
> Good shit brother!


Ah I've heard of that, never watched. Young me was super disappointed when I realized it was a real movie and not a cartoon and never watch it sense


----------



## Prized Fighter

Firefromthegods said:


> God I hope Strickland gets a look from tone deaf tony


I am pretty convinced that AEW is going to put Keith Lee, Shane Strickland and Athena with Lio Rush and Top Flight. That has been my belief since Lee and Strickland got released. AEW loves stables/factions. You could also switch out Athena for Mia Yim. There will be some people that have a problem with an all Black stable, but I personally think there is enough talent there to make them a major part of the show.


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> Got to fight over something, peace and getting along, understanding and being mindful of others just . Same I want to see Hit Row realign somewhere. Hell I'd even root for them getting the Zelina Vega treatment


I want the "Zelina Vega treatment" too.


----------



## BlueEyedDevil

Prized Fighter said:


> I am pretty convinced that AEW is going to put Keith Lee, Shane Strickland and Athena with Lio Rush and Top Flight. That has been my belief since Lee and Strickland got released. AEW loves stables/factions. You could also switch out Athena for Mia Yim. There will be some people that have a problem with an all Black stable, but I personally think there is enough talent there to make them a major part of the show.


Could you add Shane Taylor to fit in the group since him and Keith Lee were tag partners? Shane Taylor, Keith Lee, Shane Strickland, and Top Flight managed by Lio Rush sounds good to me. Do we get Mia Yim in eventually too?


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> Ah I've heard of that, never watched. Young me was super disappointed when I realized it was a real movie and not a cartoon and never watch it sense


Lol it could be considered a cartoon at points -- Save it for a good night when you're feeling lovely and generous with someone you care about.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Two Sheds said:


> I want the "Zelina Vega treatment" too.


Fuck that shit, I want that Don Callis treatment!


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Seth Grimes said:


> You did not just say MGK does heavy metal lmao it's punk rock. Eh, MGK's Hotel Diablo was a banger, he's likely just capitalising on the market for the punk rock sound that others also did like Trippie Redd on Pegasus. Avril Lavinge now tryna make a come back to that genre. Willow Smith released a punk rock album too this year. Wild Boy some trash music, no idea how anyone likes that. Some of the currently biggest MGK fans I know now don't even know Wild Boy, or the fact he did that kinda stuff, they thought he's new. I'm pretty sure MGK was also mocked for a long time for those songs he did. Not sure if MGK is a one hit wonder, he's got quite a few decently rated releases by this point. Why in the hell would you assume the fact he's white helped him? Slim Jesus released a similar song whilst being white and got fucking destroyed, and continues to this day because of how he looks. If he's black, he's probably got a fanbase by now. You're gonna need to do better than "two white rappers exist, it MUST be because they are white". Again, unless you want to say that white people cannot rap at all, why are you trying to say the only two famous white rappers, are only famous because they're white?


*What? That Slim Jesus song was viral for a whole year, even though he was a meme. The novelty of being a white rapper definitely gets your foot in the door. It's up to you to maintain the level of success achieved by your first hit. Most of them don't do that by your own admission: Jack Harlow, Vanilla Ice, Macklemore, etc. What do they all have in common? They came out the gate with a major hit. I stand by saying Harlow is still as popular as he was when he first dropped though. MGK definitely had some other good songs, but again, my point was he didn't match the success of Wild Boy.*


----------



## Prized Fighter

BlueEyedDevil said:


> Could you add Shane Taylor to fit in the group since him and Keith Lee were tag partners? Shane Taylor, Keith Lee, Shane Strickland, and Top Flight managed by Lio Rush sounds good to me. Do we get Mia Yim in eventually too?


That works for me too. I was just going under the standard structure of main eventer, TNT title contender, tag team, manager and women's contender.


----------



## One Shed

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Fuck that shit, I want that Don Callis treatment!


Deal. You get Don, I get Zelina.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Two Sheds said:


> Deal. You get Don, I get Zelina.


The battle of the managers.. 

I am totally down.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

People need to understand that just because there's POC in the company doesn't really mean anything. It's how their treated and viewed that's more important. 

Hell look at this thread: If Big Swole was white I don't think she'd get as much hate as she does honestly.


----------



## RoganJosh

No more black world champ at WWE. What would Swole have to say about that?


----------



## RainmakerV2

RoganJosh said:


> No more black world champ at WWE. What would Swole have to say about that?



Considering she's now unemployed and her husband works there and I assume they need some income to live on, nothing.


----------



## Prized Fighter

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477420306243506176
I am going to be mad if Strickland doesn't end up in AEW because of this. He would be one of the AEW pillars if he didn't choose NXT.


----------



## Upstart474

RoganJosh said:


> No more black world champ at WWE. What would Swole have to say about that?


WWE had more Black champions in one year than AEW ever had in history: Lashley, Big E, and Bianca Belair. Those wrestlers will be champions again at the biggest stage, Wrestlemania.


----------



## bdon

Upstart474 said:


> WWE had more Black champions in one year than AEW ever had in history: Lashley, Big E, and Bianca Belair. Those wrestlers will be champions again at the biggest stage, Wrestlemania.


Names.

You want to act as if AEW should have had black champions this year, then you should give us some names.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> Names.
> 
> You want to act as if AEW should have had black champions this year, then you should give us some names.


I did the work for them on page 15

Alex Kane, Calvin Tankman, Jorel Nelson, Kevin Knight, David Ali, Ice Williams, Labron Kozone, Mojo McQueen, Montana Black, Matthew Mims, Eli Isom, Moses, O’Shay Edwards, Bojack, Brohemoth, Bryan Keith, Darius Carter, Dontae Smiley, Duke Davis, EJ Sparks, Eric Watts, Ganan Jones Jr, Hoodfoot Mo Atlas, Isaiah Broner, Jason Cade, Joe Black, Ju Dizz, Lucky Ali, M’Badu, Omar Amir, Rhett Giddins, Terrell and Terrence Hughes, Thomas Sharp, Xavier Walker, Top Dolla and Tehuti Miles would fill the mid card very well.

EJ Nduka, Kaun, Edge Stone, Jase Osei, Prince Abgallah and Swerve are all wrestlers who would fit into the main event scene easily. The wrestlers are out there, AEW was just stupid in the begining and signed wrestlers that the IWC were excited about instead of wrestlers who have actual main event potential. Same goes for the white wrestlers for a lot of them. The Orange Cassidy's and Marko Stunt's of the world should be working in front of 20 people for a comedy wrestling company that doesn't want to be taken seriously. They put themselves on the back foot by signing people like that when there were people available that wouldn't turn fans away.


----------



## CM Buck

Cult03 said:


> I did the work for them on page 15
> 
> Alex Kane, Calvin Tankman, Jorel Nelson, Kevin Knight, David Ali, Ice Williams, Labron Kozone, Mojo McQueen, Montana Black, Matthew Mims, Eli Isom, Moses, O’Shay Edwards, Bojack, Brohemoth, Bryan Keith, Darius Carter, Dontae Smiley, Duke Davis, EJ Sparks, Eric Watts, Ganan Jones Jr, Hoodfoot Mo Atlas, Isaiah Broner, Jason Cade, Joe Black, Ju Dizz, Lucky Ali, M’Badu, Omar Amir, Rhett Giddins, Terrell and Terrence Hughes, Thomas Sharp, Xavier Walker, Top Dolla and Tehuti Miles would fill the mid card very well.
> 
> EJ Nduka, Kaun, Edge Stone, Jase Osei, Prince Abgallah and Swerve are all wrestlers who would fit into the main event scene easily. The wrestlers are out there, AEW was just stupid in the begining and signed wrestlers that the IWC were excited about instead of wrestlers who have actual main event potential. Same goes for the white wrestlers for a lot of them. The Orange Cassidy's and Marko Stunt's of the world should be working in front of 20 people for a comedy wrestling company that doesn't want to be taken seriously. They put themselves on the back foot by signing people like that when there were people available that wouldn't turn fans away.


Ej nduka is an absolute unit. Pulls off a better spinebuster than Hobbs too


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> I did the work for them on page 15
> 
> Alex Kane, Calvin Tankman, Jorel Nelson, Kevin Knight, David Ali, Ice Williams, Labron Kozone, Mojo McQueen, Montana Black, Matthew Mims, Eli Isom, Moses, O’Shay Edwards, Bojack, Brohemoth, Bryan Keith, Darius Carter, Dontae Smiley, Duke Davis, EJ Sparks, Eric Watts, Ganan Jones Jr, Hoodfoot Mo Atlas, Isaiah Broner, Jason Cade, Joe Black, Ju Dizz, Lucky Ali, M’Badu, Omar Amir, Rhett Giddins, Terrell and Terrence Hughes, Thomas Sharp, Xavier Walker, Top Dolla and Tehuti Miles would fill the mid card very well.
> 
> EJ Nduka, Kaun, Edge Stone, Jase Osei, Prince Abgallah and Swerve are all wrestlers who would fit into the main event scene easily. The wrestlers are out there, AEW was just stupid in the begining and signed wrestlers that the IWC were excited about instead of wrestlers who have actual main event potential. Same goes for the white wrestlers for a lot of them. The Orange Cassidy's and Marko Stunt's of the world should be working in front of 20 people for a comedy wrestling company that doesn't want to be taken seriously. They put themselves on the back foot by signing people like that when there were people available that wouldn't turn fans away.


And those people are not signed currently, so that still doesn’t answer the question exactly. Nor does it answer the question of having too little time for anyone.


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> Names.
> 
> You want to act as if AEW should have had black champions this year, then you should give us some names.


Hobbs would’ve been a better TNT champion than Sammy.

Sadly Orange Cassidy went over him
not once but twice.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> And those people are not signed currently, so that still doesn’t answer the question exactly. Nor does it answer the question of having too little time for anyone.


There's nobody on the roster currently that is what you're looking for so I had to look outside of the company. They're all signable.

Also at risk of getting into a fun argument, what exactly was the question? You literally just asked for names.


----------



## the_flock

Prosper said:


> There are plenty of Asians and Blacks though with one of AEW’s recent tourneys being filled with joshi’s. You got Emi, Shida, Mei, Yuka etc. Jade Cargill and Red Velvet have been used plenty with the former being one of if not the most protected woman in wrestling right now. Lee Moriarty, Jay Lethal, Shawn Dean, Lio Rush, Dante Martin are all diverse signings. Andrade is Latino, Thunder Rosa, Diamanté, Ivelisse, Santana and Ortiz, etc. I’m not seeing this lack of diversity she’s referring to. If you’re talented you’re gonna be scouted, if not then you’re not just gonna be signed because you’re a POC. And on her other point, if you don’t have the creativity to pitch a cool idea or character like Malakai Black is doing then that’s on you.


I think your missing the point. Having diverse ethnic groups for the sake of it, in the midcard isn't representing. 

Also who gives 2 shits about Joshis apart from Kenny Omega and his schoolgirl fantasies.


----------



## DUD

RoganJosh said:


> No more black world champ at WWE. What would Swole have to say about that?


I imagine her new found fan base of 48 hours ago are up in arms.

As for the Hit Row conversation... I'll be happy if I never have to hear from that Top Dolla penis ever again.


----------



## the_flock

Chip Chipperson said:


> I might come across badly to some here but my feeling is that you shouldn't push someone simply based on race. AEW doesn't have any black wrestlers to my knowledge that could be the AEW World Heavyweight Champion.
> 
> Now if Big E was released tomorrow, signed to AEW and wasn't in their World Title picture THEN you could argue it's a lack of diversity but for right now it's a lack of talent. AEW doesn't really have any great non white wrestlers (And by great I mean superstar potential)


Yet they push a guy pretending to be a drunk cowboy to the top. 

Jericho was the guy who got Sammy his push and they did nothing with it. 

In the last 3 years WWE have had Big E, Lashley and Kofi as WWE champions. AEW have had a bunch of white geeks.


----------



## the_flock

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477071736726245376
> Let's go TK


Bullshit response from TK. Let her go because she couldn't wrestle yet keeps guys like Joey Janela, Luther and Marko Stunt.


----------



## the_flock

Prosper said:


> Vince hasn't spoken to the media or had an wrestling-based interview for almost 30 years. What he would have said about talent over the years if he had given the media any attention probably would have been 10 times worse.


He used to do q and a's with fans on the old yahoo and AOL. Message boards back in the 90s.


----------



## the_flock

RapShepard said:


> 5. For those about to say "well it's not their fault if the talents aren't creative". Yes, yes it is their fault, it shouldn't be up on the talent to have to come up with idea to be used. A quality booker should be the one primarily coming up with the ideas. That's not to say talents shouldn't be able to collaborate and have say. But the notion it should be on the talents to give ideas is insane. You can't laugh at the ridiculousness of WWE have dozens of Hollywood writers, then suggest AEW needs dozens of wrestlers all pitching their own shit.
> 
> 6. No AEW doesn't use other races and ethnicities well either. Shida and Riho were champ, yet Britt a green Britt was the star of the division getting the true focus. Proud and Powerful have done fuck all in their 2 years in the company, easy argument they've been just as underused as WWE would've underused them. Hell even the Lucha Bros are just now getting steam in the last 4 months.
> 
> 7. Yes we get wrestling fans are majority white, but just like white people like to see successful white people in arenas they don't dominate like say basketball and rap, non white wrestling fans like to see people like them be successful in wrestling. In an era where WWE is getting better at using it's black and female talent, the AEW is young so it has to be super white male song sit for some.


The biggest angles and stables in wrestling history are black related. Hogan/Mr T, Hogan/Rodman, Austin/Tyson, Ali/Inoki, the NWO, DX, etc etc.


----------



## the_flock

Prosper said:


> I mean they're letting Jade grow in real time, Big Swole just sucked, and Britt had the mic skills to make up for a lot


Britt is possibly the worst professional wrestler I've seen in my life. 

She didn't have the mic skills. She had the Elite being best friends with her boyfriend factor. So had everything thrown at her to try and get her over.


----------



## the_flock

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Yeah no doubt Eminem got a boost for being white and played into it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Look at these eyes, baby blue, baby just like yourself If they were brown Shady'd lose, Shady sits on the shelf But Shady's cute, Shady knew Shady's dimples would help Make ladies swoon baby (ooh baby!) Look at my sales."
> 
> 
> 
> My eyes aren't blue, they've been black and soulless my entire life; at this point in my life I'm no longer cute and ain't got no dimples. I don't call anybody shit at this point because we're all stuck in the struggle togeather, and life shouldn't be about inflicting pain on other people.
> 
> But at the same time people fighting this hard over colour or creed!? That shit is a fucking wank pheasant _going_ *nowhere! *


Eminem is a classic case of right place at the right time. He came around at the height of chav culture. (white people pretending they're black).


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> There's nobody on the roster currently that is what you're looking for so I had to look outside of the company. They're all signable.
> 
> Also at risk of getting into a fun argument, what exactly was the question? You literally just asked for names.


Names that aren’t getting the tv time and should have been. Rap’s point was that Swole wasn’t allowed to suck on TV like Britt was, despite the fact that Swole absolutely was on TV quite a bit much to the chagrin of everyone in here, but she failed to get over like Britt eventually did.

And of those that are signable, you don’t waltz in and become a staple of the main event scene. Look at Malakai who is so white he’s damn near clear. Adam Cole waltzed in and went into a program with Orange Cassidy and Jungle Boy. 


La Parka said:


> Hobbs would’ve been a better TNT champion than Sammy.
> 
> Sadly Orange Cassidy went over him
> not once but twice.


[/QUOTE]
But Hobbs hasn’t even been on the roster for a year, and they didn’t immediately slap a title onto Wardlow, Lance Archer, or Brian Cage.

If we want to talk about big men getting shafted in AEW, then we can have that discussion. Pretending AEW is holding back Hobbs due to his skin color? Miss me with that one..


----------



## bdon

the_flock said:


> AEW have had a bunch of white geeks.


I feel offended. Racism!!!


----------



## GothicBohemian

Ok, I haven't read this thread yet, I'm just reacting to Swole's initial comment. I'll get back to you once I slog through all this discussion. 

I'm represented by Nyla Rose.

She's LGBTQ+
She's half Native American
She's a woman


Is she my favourite wrestler? No. I mean, I enjoy her but she's not why I watch. Does it make me feel a certain kinds of feels to hear her announced as The Native Beast? Yeah, it does. I smile without thinking. Here I am watching wrestling and I hear the Native word and no one comes out dancing, wearing a headdress or banging on a drum. That won't matter to 90% of the audience, but it matters to me.


----------



## Geert Wilders

the_flock said:


> Eminem is a classic case of right place at the right time. He came around at the height of chav culture. (white people pretending they're black).


tbsts still happening. It’s worse now than ever. You live in England you know.


----------



## Erik.

Upstart474 said:


> WWE had more Black champions in one year than AEW ever had in history: Lashley, Big E, and Bianca Belair. Those wrestlers will be champions again at the biggest stage, Wrestlemania.


More black wrestlers have challenged for the AEW championship than the Universal championship in its existence.

Bare in mind the Universal championship has been in existence since 2016.

Which I thought was quite interesting.


----------



## GothicBohemian

So I'm halfway through this mess and a few trends are starting to show:

- At this point in what I'm reading, it appears that Swole is jealous of Jade. Look, I can understand her point of view; she's more experienced and not as photogenic as Jade so it has to hurt to be passed over but that doesn't give her a right to be a bitch about it.

- There are a lot of posters here who keep going on about quotas and that's not the discussion Swole started. Did most of you even read what she said or did you just see a black woman few AEW fans like start talking and leap to defend against the 'wokes' and the 'blms'?

- I swear I read a post where someone said white men were choosing to be wrestlers because black athletes dominate real athletic competition. Seriously? Er, there are many, many sports out there popular with different demographics. What becomes an aspirational goal for athletic kids is often influenced by who they see winning in which sports. I'll take figure skating, a sport I assume most of you know little about, as an example. The women's division is currently dominated by Russian, Japanese and Korean girls. Why? Because huge national stars rose up in all of those places and now loads of little girls want to emulate their heroes. The Russian girls have started a quad revolution among women - one of them has even aimed at matching the world men's champion with five quads in one program. If you look at figure skating as a whole in the West, you're going to see a lot of Asian representation. That's because of Michelle Kwan. A generation of Asian families in the USA and Canada admired her and saw figure skating as a sport well suited to their kids.

Representation, and the dignity of that representation, matters. Most people don't want quotas, just a chance to shine without being stereotyped. Something folks who have always been represented tend to miss is that everyone wants to see positive reflections of their culture, their heritage, their whatever. That's what inspires the next generation so that some day representation isn't an issue anymore.


I have to get ready for work. I'll try and read more of this later.

EDIT: One more thing - Tony needs to learn when to speak, when to listen, and when to sit back and let events unfold around him.


----------



## RoganJosh

Upstart474 said:


> WWE had more Black champions in one year than AEW ever had in history: Lashley, Big E, and Bianca Belair. Those wrestlers will be champions again at the biggest stage, Wrestlemania.


They gave them the titles in order to meet diversity quotas, not because of merit. Big E as world champion is a joke, and Bianca was just a placeholder until Becky's return. That was a true squash if there ever was one, what does that tell you about WWE's thoughts on Bianca's abilities?


----------



## shandcraig

the_flock said:


> Yet they push a guy pretending to be a drunk cowboy to the top.
> 
> Jericho was the guy who got Sammy his push and they did nothing with it.
> 
> In the last 3 years WWE have had Big E, Lashley and Kofi as WWE champions. AEW have had a bunch of white geeks.



Because he had the loudest cheers unto the belt was on him. How is that dumb? There is like no black people in aew getting pops. Wwe is a public traded company that has to do whatever the stock holders and TV executives want. 

Moose would be over in aew though


----------



## Geeee

This thread is really turning into a shitshow. They should just push Ricky Starks. He's a great well-rounded wrestler on the come-up and he can pass for any race.

Like I get that AEW is a largely workrate-based promotion, and last time Ricky tried to do a backflip, he broke his neck. Ricky has strengths in other areas and they let MJF get himself over while barely wrestling. If we got more Ricky Starks segments and fewer Dan Lambert segments, I guarantee this is a net improvement to Dynamite.


----------



## shandcraig

RoganJosh said:


> They gave them the titles in order to meet diversity quotas, not because of merit. Big E as world champion is a joke, and Bianca was just a placeholder until Becky's return. That was a true squash if there ever was one, what does that tell you about WWE's thoughts on Bianca's abilities?


amazes me people dont get it.


----------



## shandcraig

Geeee said:


> This thread is really turning into a shitshow. They should just push Ricky Starks. He's a great well-rounded wrestler on the come-up and he can pass for any race.


you know @LifeInCattleClass has decided to change for the new year and is sitting at home with his popcorn and sable poster laughing his ass off. Same dude that has nothing bad to say about aew or cody and will argue on every post to death to defend them and has a bunch of ranking stats in his profile about cody that mean zero to aew or what he does 🤣 🤣 🤣 gotta loeve this place.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

So now lio rush is PROUD to work for Tony lol

Guess that outrage wasn't as bad as made out to be 🤣


----------



## Seth Grimes

The Legit Lioness said:


> *What? That Slim Jesus song was viral for a whole year, even though he was a meme. The novelty of being a white rapper definitely gets your foot in the door. It's up to you to maintain the level of success achieved by your first hit. Most of them don't do that by your own admission: Jack Harlow, Vanilla Ice, Macklemore, etc. What do they all have in common? They came out the gate with a major hit. I stand by saying Harlow is still as popular as he was when he first dropped though. MGK definitely had some other good songs, but again, my point was he didn't match the success of Wild Boy.*


You realise for every one of these guys I can name a good 10+ trash black rappers that are still making music? What even is your point? That every single white rapper is overrated? White people can't rap, yeah?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Seth Grimes said:


> You realise for every one of these guys I can name a good 10+ trash black rappers that are still making music? What even is your point? That every single white rapper is overrated? White people can't rap, yeah?


*No? I liked some of those guys. The point is there is definitely white privilege in rap and it's ignorant to disregard Eminem's experience as a white man who admitted he benefitted from said privilege.*


----------



## Fearless Viper

Over 1k posts on this thread in such a short amount of time...


----------



## Geert Wilders

Fearless Viper said:


> Over 1k posts on this thread in such a short amount of time...


as Eric says, controversy creates cash.


----------



## shandcraig

If Tony has the balls he should do a all black stable. Problem is it would just be a bunch of nerds and mismatches like all the shitty stable in aew. I have high hopes the latino stable will work though.


----------



## 3venflow

Lio Rush, Shane Strickland and Private Party could be AEW's first all-black faction - all young, hip party-loving guys who would work well as babyfaces I think.


----------



## RoganJosh

Fearless Viper said:


> Over 1k posts on this thread in such a short amount of time...


Yes if only you could monetize on here then @LifeInCattleClass would be making a few Bob from this thread.


----------



## shandcraig

3venflow said:


> Lio Rush, Shane Strickland and Private Party could be AEW's first all-black faction - all young, hip party-loving guys who would work well as babyfaces I think.



all nerds, just like most of the other stables in aew. But at least rush would be good at pissing people off and get good heat.


----------



## RoganJosh

Anyone remember that stable in TNA headed by Eric Young, I think they were called World Elite? AEW should put a similar group together to stick it to the woke lot out there. In the stable you could have Pac, Lucha Brothers, Shida, Tay and other foreigners to give it that international flavour. They could feud with the American wrestlers.


----------



## 3venflow

shandcraig said:


> all nerds, just like most of the other stables in aew. But at least rush would be good at pissing people off and get good heat.


Not sure what your definition of a nerd is, but these are young guys in good physical shape and living the dream. Not the nerds I knew grewing up.

If you mean 'big, mean guys' then there's Shane Taylor Promotions from ROH. Kaun (the one on the left below) has been working Dark: Elevation recently. The leader Shane Taylor used to team with Keith Lee before he joined WWE.


----------



## RoganJosh

3venflow said:


> Not sure what your definition of a nerd is, but these are young guys in good physical shape and living the dream. Not the nerds I knew grewing up.
> 
> If you mean 'big, mean guys' then there's Shane Taylor Promotions from ROH. Kaun (the one on the left below) has been working Dark: Elevation recently. The leader Shane Taylor used to team with Keith Lee before he joined WWE.
> 
> View attachment 114287


The gimmick looks badass but the one in the middle is a bit of a fatty.


----------



## shandcraig

3venflow said:


> Not sure what your definition of a nerd is, but these are young guys in good physical shape and living the dream. Not the nerds I knew grewing up.
> 
> If you mean 'big, mean guys' then there's Shane Taylor Promotions from ROH. Kaun (the one on the left below) has been working Dark: Elevation recently. The leader Shane Taylor used to team with Keith Lee before he joined WWE.
> 
> View attachment 114287



guys here are not who was motioned.


----------



## Geeee

shandcraig said:


> all nerds, just like most of the other stables in aew. But at least rush would be good at pissing people off and get good heat.


I don't know why black people can't be nerds. The New Day are nerds and they have been highly successful in wrestling

also, I think that even though Lio Rush DID literally dress as a Power Ranger in his debut, he could still be in a supporting role for something serious. As for Private Party, in this case being green is advantageous. Like they aren't yet married to the silly Private Party gimmick. They have more improving ahead of them, than they have behind them. They are tremendous athletes and they at least have the idea that you need to be a character to make it in wrestling, so that's an ok start.


----------



## shandcraig

Geeee said:


> I don't know why black people can't be nerds. The New Day are nerds and they have been highly successful in wrestling
> 
> also, I think that even though Lio Rush DID literally dress as a Power Ranger in his debut, he could still be in a supporting role for something serious.


We going to say nerds in wrestling is ok because they are black now? lol please. There is a trend of nerds in wrestling and plenty of people dont like it. Desperation for wrestlers to be loved for the generic real person they are instead of playing a character. Its just society these days.


----------



## Driver79

GothicBohemian said:


> Representation, and the dignity of that representation, matters. Most people don't want quotas, just a chance to shine without being stereotyped. Something folks who have always been represented tend to miss is that everyone wants to see positive reflections of their culture, their heritage, their whatever. That's what inspires the next generation so that some day representation isn't an issue anymore.


Wrestling was at the height of it's popularity when it leaned into all sorts of cultural stereotypes, and I highly doubt that any of the performers minded back then. The hall of fame is literally chock full of one note stereotype characters, and all of those guys were legends.

This obsession with racial sensitivity and inserting it into every discussion is pure insanity. The notion that being a black performer requires having a black writer is racist in itself, as if black people are these magical beings that only other black people have the wisdom to understand.


----------



## Prosper

Good on @Firefromthegods for not closing this yet 😂 I thought it would get closed back on page 20, controversy definitely breeds conversation and now Big Swole is more popular than she’s ever been


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

shandcraig said:


> you know @LifeInCattleClass has decided to change for the new year and is sitting at home with his popcorn and sable poster laughing his ass off. Same dude that has nothing bad to say about aew or cody and will argue on every post to death to defend them and has a bunch of ranking stats in his profile about cody that mean zero to aew or what he does 🤣 🤣 🤣 gotta loeve this place.


Lol - what‘re you talking about dude?

Swole was wrong, there is plenty of diversity

Tony was wrong - he was a fucknugget for that tweet

there - there is your ‘bad to say’ quote  

frame it for the year - its the only one you’ll get


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RoganJosh said:


> Yes if only you could monetize on here then @LifeInCattleClass would be making a few Bob from this thread.


I’ll get chip’s mate to phone vertical scope for me an cut me in on a piece of the pie


----------



## shandcraig

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lol - what‘re you talking about dude?
> 
> Swole was wrong, there is plenty of diversity
> 
> Tony was wrong - he was a fucknugget for that tweet
> 
> there - there is your ‘bad to say’ quote
> 
> frame it for the year - its the only one you’ll get



thats better  🤣


----------



## Mr316

What some of you here don’t understand is that Tony Khan stated the obvious in his tweet but didn’t say everything. Of course part of the reason why Swole is gone is because she absolutely sucks in every way in the ring and yes there are white wrestlers that absolutely suck that are still under contract in AEW. For example: Leva Bates. Difference is probably the fact that Leva knows that she sucks and she considers herself lucky to have this job and she’s telling herself that she’ll continu to work hard and try to improve. Big Swole sounds like she thinks she could main event a PPV. She’s an idiot and that’s why she’s gone. I’m glad Tony told it like it is. She’s actually lucky he didn’t say more than what he said.


----------



## RapShepard

Mr316 said:


> What some of you here don’t understand is that Tony Khan stated the obvious in his tweet but didn’t say everything. Of course part of the reason why Swole is gone is because she absolutely sucks in every way in the ring and yes there are white wrestlers that absolutely suck that are still under contract in AEW. For example: Leva Bates. Difference is probably the fact that Leva knows that she sucks and she considers herself lucky to have this job and she’s telling herself that she’ll continu to work hard and try to improve. Big Swole sounds like she thinks she could main event a PPV. She’s an idiot and that’s why she’s gone. I’m glad Tony told it like it is. She’s actually lucky he didn’t say more than what he said.


----------



## michael_3165

shandcraig said:


> If Tony has the balls he should do a all black stable. Problem is it would just be a bunch of nerds and mismatches like all the shitty stable in aew. I have high hopes the latino stable will work though.


I can only imagine if he decided to do a Nation of Domination style all black act in 2022. Whilst I don't think he would go there (especially if they were heels) it would certainly make me mark out a bit!


----------



## Seth Grimes

The Legit Lioness said:


> *No? I liked some of those guys. The point is there is definitely white privilege in rap and it's ignorant to disregard Eminem's experience as a white man who admitted he benefitted from said privilege.*


You need to prove that, though? You can't just say it and then claim Em's own words are proof of that? By your logic, Jesse Lee Peterson says that as a black man, black people are dumber than whites. Can I not tell him that he's wrong about himself?


----------



## Thomazbr

3venflow said:


> Not sure what your definition of a nerd is, but these are young guys in good physical shape and living the dream. Not the nerds I knew grewing up.
> 
> If you mean 'big, mean guys' then there's Shane Taylor Promotions from ROH. Kaun (the one on the left below) has been working Dark: Elevation recently. The leader Shane Taylor used to team with Keith Lee before he joined WWE.
> 
> View attachment 114287


Shane Taylor has the body of a fat woman.
Im not a body guy but Shayne physique is weird as hell.


----------



## Driver79

Seth Grimes said:


> You need to prove that, though? You can't just say it and then claim Em's own words are proof of that? By your logic, Jesse Lee Peterson says that as a black man, black people are dumber than whites. Can I not tell him that he's wrong about himself?


Eminem being white only benefited him after he got signed. Prior to that it was a huge disadvantage and nobody took him seriously.

And while I'm sure Em could probably give two fucks at this point considering he's one of the most successful artists ever, there are still plenty of people who are ashamed to admit that he's one of the GOATS.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Mr316 said:


> What some of you here don’t understand is that Tony Khan stated the obvious in his tweet but didn’t say everything. Of course part of the reason why Swole is gone is because she absolutely sucks in every way in the ring and yes there are white wrestlers that absolutely suck that are still under contract in AEW. For example: Leva Bates. Difference is probably the fact that Leva knows that she sucks and she considers herself lucky to have this job and she’s telling herself that she’ll continu to work hard and try to improve. Big Swole sounds like she thinks she could main event a PPV. She’s an idiot and that’s why she’s gone. I’m glad Tony told it like it is. She’s actually lucky he didn’t say more than what he said.


Leva has actually a backstage role and took some of Brandi's work while she was pregnant.


----------



## the_flock

shandcraig said:


> Because he had the loudest cheers unto the belt was on him. How is that dumb? There is like no black people in aew getting pops. Wwe is a public traded company that has to do whatever the stock holders and TV executives want.
> 
> Moose would be over in aew though


It's dumb because he doesn't appeal to a mainstream audience. 

No black people in AEW getting pops because none are being pushed. 

Yeah Moose is awesome.


----------



## the_flock

shandcraig said:


> If Tony has the balls he should do a all black stable. Problem is it would just be a bunch of nerds and mismatches like all the shitty stable in aew. I have high hopes the latino stable will work though.


No because Tony is stuck in the 90s. A all lack stable in AEW would be a Pg rated version of the Gangstas.


----------



## BroncoBuster3

the_flock said:


> It's dumb because he doesn't appeal to a mainstream audience.
> 
> No black people in AEW getting pops because none are being pushed.
> 
> Yeah Moose is awesome.


AEW fans pop for everything though so if you're not getting a pop it's because you are the literal shits.


----------



## the_flock

Remember in the beginning of AEW when people on here were saying Scorpio Sky would be world champion within 3 years.


----------



## bdon

the_flock said:


> Remember in the beginning of AEW when people on here were saying Scorpio Sky would be world champion within 3 years.


And remember me telling them he was vanilla as fuck, and they were lying to themselves?

Hasn’t slowed AEW from trying to make him meaningful.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan

Did anyone listen to Big Swole’s podcast? That’s where her quotes came from. TK was his usual knee jerk self but this whole thing should have ended when she signed off from podcasting the day she is quoted on. Lio Rush came in hit his spots and eliminates himself from the situation like he’s the Macho Man in an early Royal Rumble. 

Shawn Dean was good to hear from on a great episode of Grapsody. I have seen most YouTube wrestling hosts that I watch disagree with Swole’s premise. Nobody had anything positive to say about Tony Khan’s blunt response either.


----------



## Seth Grimes

Driver79 said:


> Eminem being white only benefited him after he got signed. Prior to that it was a huge disadvantage and nobody took him seriously.
> 
> And while I'm sure Em could probably give two fucks at this point considering he's one of the most successful artists ever, there are still plenty of people who are ashamed to admit that he's one of the GOATS.


Nah, being the best rapper is what benefitted him. If being white alone was enough to get you into GOAT talks, where are the rest of them? Literally one guy.


----------



## Driver79

Seth Grimes said:


> Nah, being the best rapper is what benefitted him. If being white alone was enough to get you into GOAT talks, where are the rest of them? Literally one guy.


Him being an amazing rapper certainly didn't hurt, but the fact that there were literally no other major white rappers at the time definitely helped him to stand out from the crowd.

Same reason why Tiger Woods was such a big deal in golf. Him being black made him an even bigger star because prior to that it was a mostly white dominated sport.


----------



## BlueEyedDevil

Ultimo Duggan said:


> Did anyone listen to Big Swole’s podcast?


Wait... Big Swole has a podcast? I guess anyone can have one then. How do I find Pineapple Pete's podcast then?


----------



## Mr316

Can we close this thread now? Big Swole doesn’t deserve this much attention.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> There's nobody on the roster currently that is what you're looking for so I had to look outside of the company. They're all signable.
> 
> Also at risk of getting into a fun argument, what exactly was the question? You literally just asked for names.


And glad to see you back and hopefully things are good in life.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Mr316 said:


> Can we close this thread now? Big Swole doesn’t deserve this much attention.


Amen.


----------



## shandcraig

the_flock said:


> It's dumb because he doesn't appeal to a mainstream audience.
> 
> No black people in AEW getting pops because none are being pushed.
> 
> Yeah Moose is awesome.


Lol aew is not appealing to main stream and there isn't anyone in main stream that gives a fuck about aew. Aew has an arena full of people chanting Hangmans name they will push him, which they did. There is no black people In aew that are remotely over with the crowd.


----------



## IronMan8

Driver79 said:


> Eminem being white only benefited him after he got signed. Prior to that it was a huge disadvantage and nobody took him seriously.
> 
> And while I'm sure Em could probably give two fucks at this point considering he's one of the most successful artists ever, there are still plenty of people who are ashamed to admit that he's one of the GOATS.


Correct.



Driver79 said:


> Wrestling was at the height of it's popularity when it leaned into all sorts of cultural stereotypes, and I highly doubt that any of the performers minded back then. The hall of fame is literally chock full of one note stereotype characters, and all of those guys were legends.
> 
> This obsession with racial sensitivity and inserting it into every discussion is pure insanity. The notion that being a black performer requires having a black writer is racist in itself, as if black people are these magical beings that only other black people have the wisdom to understand.


Amen.

Race-conscious thought is at an all-time high.

I suspect it's almost certainly harmful for society to be overly aware of everybody's race. The reason is because when race is heavily primed in our minds, people are prone to attribute most if not everything to race to the exclusion of all other coexisting factors. People aren't conscious about the hundreds if not thousands of coexisting factors and justify not thinking about them on emotional grounds.

Why has society become so heavily race conscious? I suspect it's largely due to two main changes in the world over recent decades. Consider patriotism in decades past serving a similar function to heightened race consciousness. However, patriotism continues to dip due to multicultural experiences and the internet humanising the other. Race is more of group identity now because the previous main group identity is no longer possible due to technology and globalisation.

The notion of black writers for black talent is indeed racist. It's humorous this is even a topic. Sad, but humorous.

The unfortunate reality is people like Swole are disadvantaged by her mentality. It's a factually false view of reality, which people are taught to let her continue to hold by parroting "I respect her right to feel that way" (feel =/= think). That sentence is insulting to her. It means "I don't respect your crazy thoughts, moron, you're just emotional and can't distinguish your emotions from logic". That's not legitimately respectful, people are just being fake and encouraging her to navigate the world through a faulty lens.

The kindest, most accurate response is for those closest to her to tell her to snap out of this racist mentality and to start viewing people as the unique individuals that they are, starting with herself.

She's not just a black woman. She's a thousand other things as well. And certainly unique in many ways. But people are narrowing her identity significantly by reducing her down to just race and gender. It's sad, but you're evil if you legitimately try to help her or publicly stand for common sense.

Why do people reduce others to simple categories?

It's easier. Less brain energy compared with analysing every single person from scratch.

The concept of oversimplifying people for lower-energy navigation of the world is a common theme of our over-stimulated times.


----------



## shandcraig

BroncoBuster3 said:


> AEW fans pop for everything though so if you're not getting a pop it's because you are the literal shits.


ummm no they dont


----------



## Ultimo Duggan

Because I accidentally started reading the Swole/Cody thread on the main page thinking it was this thread…
Big Swole rough breakdown of her AEW experience. Numbers might be off by one or two for the YouTube shows. I just added them up because it was brought up in the old Swole thread. It felt like she was on Dark more often so I was surprised it was so few.

36 matches Dynamite or Rampage
7 matches on Dark
2 matches on PPV


----------



## thisissting

Fuck me I ain't reading 1000 posts on this mess of a wrestler. Swole was a terrible wrestler. Why do some folks play the race card as a means to cover up their own deficiencies. Just pathetic. Funny how the biggest thing she ever did was play the race card and take part in possibly the worst wrestling match ever. Aew is literally one the most diverse mainstream wrestling companies ever. They had a man as woman's champion for gods sake lol.


----------



## La Parka

Ultimo Duggan said:


> Because I accidentally started reading the Swole/Cody thread on the main page thinking it was this thread…
> Big Swole rough breakdown of her AEW experience. Numbers might be off by one or two for the YouTube shows. I just added them up because it was brought up in the old Swole thread. It felt like she was on Dark more often so I was surprised it was so few.
> 
> 36 matches Dynamite or Rampage
> 7 matches on Dark
> 2 matches on PPV


That’s a lot of TV matches for someone who can’t wrestle tbh.

the women’s division has had way too much tv time.


----------



## shandcraig

La Parka said:


> That’s a lot of TV matches for someone who can’t wrestle tbh.
> 
> the women’s division has had way too much tv time.



but but but women wrestling is as equal draw as men....


----------



## Curryfor3

Honestly Tony Khan's tweet puts him in a bad light. Big Swole made valid criticisms imo and Tony's tweet just reads as, "We're actually very diverse, I released you because you suck, don't forget to watch Rampage tonight lolz!" Better off just not tweeting at all.


----------



## shandcraig

Curryfor3 said:


> Honestly Tony Khan's tweet puts him in a bad light. Big Swole made valid criticisms imo and Tony's tweet just reads as, "We're actually very diverse, I released you because you suck, don't forget to watch Rampage tonight lolz!" Better off just not tweeting at all.



i agree he shouldnt tweet and i have a lot of bad shit to say about this guy. But he was trying to defend a false statement she made which people are just so beyond sick of hearing. Its probably rude to say how he felt about her but that was the truth.


----------



## RapShepard

IronMan8 said:


> The notion of black writers for black talent is indeed racist. It's humorous this is even a topic. Sad, but humorous.


Depending on the story being told, it's not crazy at all to want somebody knowledgeable of the subject writing it. 

For instance say you have 2 pretty good writers. Who do you think would be better equipped to write a tv series about growing up in Texas in the 70s and creating an authentic atmosphere of the times. 

Somebody who grew up in Texas in the 70s

Or somebody who grew up in Ohio in the 90s


----------



## thisissting

Curryfor3 said:


> Honestly Tony Khan's tweet puts him in a bad light. Big Swole made valid criticisms imo and Tony's tweet just reads as, "We're actually very diverse, I released you because you suck, don't forget to watch Rampage tonight lolz!" Better off just not tweeting at all.


Exactly the correct response. She was terrible at what she did so they let her go. Nothing to do with being black.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Seth Grimes said:


> You need to prove that, though? You can't just say it and then claim Em's own words are proof of that? By your logic, Jesse Lee Peterson says that as a black man, black people are dumber than whites. Can I not tell him that he's wrong about himself?


*That's a desperate reach. We're talking about qualified individuals in their respective field, one of which who happens to be the GOAT, telling you directly that he wouldn't have had the same success in said field if he were Black. I don't need the ridiculous what about isms because you don't like his answer.








Lebron James talking about Eminem | Saying he loves Eminem







youtube.com




*


----------



## Upstart474

Curryfor3 said:


> Honestly Tony Khan's tweet puts him in a bad light. Big Swole made valid criticisms imo and Tony's tweet just reads as, "We're actually very diverse, I released you because you suck, don't forget to watch Rampage tonight lolz!" Better off just not tweeting at all.


Tony Khan is not a bright person nor he is a good businessman. The best thing he can do is delete his twitter account and let PR team control the account. If he tweets something racist, he will lose sponsors and maybe WB may end ties with AEW. I am not saying Khan is racist but if he word something about race the wrong way, he will face hell and his daddy's billions can't save him.


----------



## IronMan8

RapShepard said:


> Depending on the story being told, it's not crazy at all to want somebody knowledgeable of the subject writing it.
> 
> For instance say you have 2 pretty good writers. Who do you think would be better equipped to write a tv series about growing up in Texas in the 70s and creating an authentic atmosphere of the times.
> 
> Somebody who grew up in Texas in the 70s
> 
> Or somebody who grew up in Ohio in the 90s


You're implying the difference between people with either black or white skin colour is as great as people living in different generations across time.

I don't accept that assumption. My stance is:

We're not that different.


----------



## IronMan8

Upstart474 said:


> I am not saying Khan is racist but if he word something about race the wrong way, he will face hell and his daddy's billions can't save him.


This is incredibly stupid, but true. 

She violated the terms of her departure agreement, so he was no longer ethically bound to assist her in saving face. Therefore, I don't have an issue with Tony's tweet.

Moreover, I see this as an example of people mindlessly encouraging an idiotic cultural trend, even though nobody agrees with the actual content of the accuser's words.

Why are you guys choosing to participate in the digital ritual of this misguided purity parade?

Worked much?


----------



## IronMan8

The Legit Lioness said:


> *That's a desperate reach. We're talking about qualified individuals in their respective field, one of which who happens to be the GOAT, telling you directly that he wouldn't have had the same success in said field if he were Black. I don't need the ridiculous what about isms because you don't like his answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lebron James talking about Eminem | Saying he loves Eminem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> youtube.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


He's just speculating. What would he know? 

This is so dumb.


----------



## CM Buck

Prosper said:


> Good on @Firefromthegods for not closing this yet 😂 I thought it would get closed back on page 20, controversy definitely breeds conversation and now Big Swole is more popular than she’s ever been


Was like 30 page's in 5 hours I'd be dumb to close that kind of engagement


----------



## RapShepard

IronMan8 said:


> You're implying the difference between people with either black or white skin colour is as great as people living in different generations across time.
> 
> I don't accept that assumption. My stance is:
> 
> We're not that different.


Okay think of it like this, 

Do you think Shane and Stephanie despite being brothers and sister,.might have had different experiences just off the strength of one being male and the other female?


----------



## BlueEyedDevil

thisissting said:


> Why do some folks play the race card as a means to cover up their own deficiencies. Just pathetic.


It's an act of desperation letting you know she has nothing else. The race card should come in two-ply so it has a use.


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> Okay think of it like this,
> 
> Do you think Shane and Stephanie despite being brothers and sister,.might have had different experiences just off the strength of one being male and the other female?












Japanese sumo character
Written and created by a white guy
Played by a samoan wrestler

I take it you find this to be extremely problematic.


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> Japanese sumo character
> Written and created by a white guy
> Played by a samoan wrestler
> 
> I take it you find this to be extremely problematic.


No it's a product of it's time. But if a Japanese person found it ridiculous or a mockery of their culture I'm not going to lecture them about lightening up lol.


----------



## shandcraig

RapShepard said:


> No it's a product of it's time. But if a Japanese person found it ridiculous or a mockery of there culture I'm not going to lecture them about lightening up lol.



no its not. you know how many races dont give a shit about this kinda stuff. Most people would not have a problem at all with that character.


----------



## RapShepard

shandcraig said:


> no its not. you know how many races dont give a shit about this kinda stuff. Most people would not have a problem at all with that character.


And some people would care, I mean why do you think major stuff in Hollywood stopped doing yellow face?


----------



## shandcraig

RapShepard said:


> And some people would care, I mean why do you think major stuff in Hollywood stopped doing yellow face?


lets just cancel everything because a small percentage of people are upset over nothing. take that to japan and you wont find people caring. this is an american issue and a small percentage

plus in reality if you look at the list of that character there is nothing wrong with it. People come up with any shit to think its somehow wrong when its not.


----------



## RapShepard

shandcraig said:


> lets just cancel everything because a small percentage of people are upset over nothing. take that to japan and you wont find people caring. this is an american issue and a small percentage
> 
> plus in reality if you look at the list of that character there is nothing wrong with it. People come up with any shit to think its somehow wrong when its not.


Or you know play shit by ear .


----------



## One Shed

shandcraig said:


> lets just cancel everything because a small percentage of people are upset over nothing. take that to japan and you wont find people caring. this is an american issue and a small percentage
> 
> plus in reality if you look at the list of that character there is nothing wrong with it. People come up with any shit to think its somehow wrong when its not.


My wife (who is from a third world country) is amazed every day at some of the stuff people think is an argument. Saying you are offended by something is not an argument. Her response is usually something like "I did not even have electricity was until I was a teenager. Maybe you can deal with a mean tweet."


----------



## Thomazbr

Yellowface or Blackface is fucked up tbh. Only RDJ is allowed on the last one.

and Taz


----------



## Aedubya

bozojeff said:


> Fine for Ru Paul's Drag Race. Not fine for my tv


U don't like humans?


----------



## IronMan8

RapShepard said:


> Okay think of it like this,
> 
> Do you think Shane and Stephanie despite being brothers and sister,.might have had different experiences just off the strength of one being male and the other female?


Dumb argument.

J. K. Rowling did a pretty good job writing all the male characters in Harry Potter, did she not?

Checkmate.


----------



## RapShepard

IronMan8 said:


> Dumb argument.
> 
> J. K. Rowling did a pretty good job writing all the male characters in Harry Potter, did she not?
> 
> Checkmate.


I have no idea never read them or seen the movies. But isn't the main focus on him being an orphan wizard fighting battles and less about like male hood?

It's just silly to pretend certain types of stories can be told more authentically if it's coming with first hand knowledge.


----------



## IronMan8

RapShepard said:


> I have no idea never read them or seen the movies. But isn't the main focus on him being an orphan wizard fighting battles and less about like male hood?
> 
> It's just silly to pretend certain types of stories can be told more authentically if it's coming with first hand knowledge.


No, that's dumb.

If a woman wrote Harry Potter, then that's evidence you don't need to be male to write male characters, which is what you were trying to argue with Steph and Shane.

Debate over.


----------



## RapShepard

IronMan8 said:


> No, that's dumb.
> 
> If a woman wrote Harry Potter, then that's evidence you don't need to be male to write male characters, which is what you were trying to argue with Steph and Shane.
> 
> Debate over.


This is me below.





RapShepard said:


> *Depending on the story being told, it's not crazy at all to want somebody knowledgeable of the subject writing it. *
> 
> For instance say you have 2 pretty good writers. Who do you think would be better equipped to write a tv series about growing up in Texas in the 70s and creating an authentic atmosphere of the times.
> 
> Somebody who grew up in Texas in the 70s
> 
> Or somebody who grew up in Ohio in the 90s


Her being able to write a quality fantasy series staring a boy, doesn't mean she's equipped to say write a grounded quality authentic coming of age story about a Peruvian girl. 

It's like you don't understand that sometimes what's a background point in one story is a major point in another one.


----------



## IronMan8

RapShepard said:


> This is me below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Her being able to write a quality fantasy series staring a boy, doesn't mean she's equipped to say write a grounded quality authentic coming of age story about a Peruvian girl.
> 
> It's like you don't understand that sometimes what's a background point in one story is a major point in another one.


Nope, that's dumb.

A professional writer can write a story from multiple perspectives.

It's wrong to argue that a writer can only write from past first-hand experiences.

Debate over.


----------



## RapShepard

IronMan8 said:


> Nope, that's dumb.
> 
> A professional writer can write a story from multiple perspectives.
> 
> It's wrong to argue that a writer can only write from past first-hand experiences.
> 
> Debate over.


Again this is me below



RapShepard said:


> *Depending on the story being told, it's not crazy at all to want somebody knowledgeable of the subject writing it. *


It's not that folk have to stick to just things they personally experienced. But depending on the focus not having first hand experience can run a real risk of the story feeling inauthentic. 

Hell not having real knowledge of the subject, is one of the biggest knocks about Hollywood writers in wrestling


----------



## IronMan8

RapShepard said:


> Again this is me below
> 
> 
> 
> It's not that folk have to stick to just things they personally experienced. But depending on the focus not having first hand experience can run a real risk of the story feeling authentic.
> 
> Hell not having real knowledge of the subject, is one of the biggest knocks about Hollywood writers in wrestling


No, that's dumb and not true.


----------



## RapShepard

IronMan8 said:


> No, that's dumb and not true.


First hand knowledge could never improve anything 

Got it lol


----------



## Aedubya

Hopefully she's in the women's Royal Rumble


----------



## IronMan8

RapShepard said:


> First hand knowledge could never improve anything
> 
> Got it lol


Correct. Now you've got a more accurate view on writers. 

Another example is Schindler's List.

Schindler's List wasn't written by a Jew who lived through the holocaust.

It was written by two smart guys from universities in California who adapted a novel written by an Australian author with Irish parents.

Million of examples as evidence to support what I'm pointing out.


----------



## CM Buck

To the poster that asked me to close this no dice. It's an important discussion to have. It's not about pushes or main event title wins. It's about representation. Marketing the best black, Asian, Latino talent. Not just slapping a belt on them to fill some token quota. Is Swole who I would pick for championing something like this? Certainly not. But it's a conversation we should be having.

Responses like Tony Khans are exactly why we need the dialogue.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> My wife (who is from a third world country) is amazed every day at some of the stuff people think is an argument. Saying you are offended by something is not an argument. Her response is usually something like "I did not even have electricity was until I was a teenager. Maybe you can deal with a mean tweet."


this is my fav comedy bit about taking offence


----------



## RapShepard

IronMan8 said:


> Correct. Now you've got a more accurate view on writers.
> 
> Another example is Schindler's List.
> 
> Schindler's List wasn't written by a Jew who lived through the holocaust.
> 
> It was written by two smart guys from universities in California who adapted a novel written by an Australian author with Irish parents.
> 
> Million of examples as evidence to support what I'm pointing out.


The Australian man who wrote the novel was asked to write it from a Holocaust survivor and got a fuck ton of first hand accounts from holocaust survivors which would be the equivalent of having representation in the writing room.


----------



## CM Buck

RapShepard said:


> The Australian man who wrote the novel was asked to write it from a Holocaust survivor and got a fuck ton of first hand accounts from holocaust survivors which would be the equivalent of having representation in the writing room.


And Spielberg directed it as close to the real life Schindler as much as possible


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

AEW has no writers - the wrestlers are the creative party

therefore every story is ‘written’ by the most first-hand person possible - the wrestler themselves

TK just decides the finishes and match length and format

not sure how we got to Schindler’s list from there


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> No it's a product of it's time. But if a Japanese person found it ridiculous or a mockery of their culture I'm not going to lecture them about lightening up lol.


So then you do find it problematic obviously if you aren't willing to defend it.

Tell me do you consider the Street Profits to be a "mockery"? Aren't they also one note stereotypes?


----------



## Driver79

shandcraig said:


> lets just cancel everything because a small percentage of people are upset over nothing. take that to japan and you wont find people caring. this is an american issue and a small percentage
> 
> plus in reality if you look at the list of that character there is nothing wrong with it. People come up with any shit to think its somehow wrong when its not.


He thinks black people are complex and magical beings that could only be understood and appreciated by other black people.

"We have our own style! We have our own culture and our own slang! If you aren't black you couldn't POSSIBLY create an AUTHENTIC experience!"

As if black people exist in their own universe and nobody else has ever encounterd a black person before.


----------



## RapShepard

Firefromthegods said:


> And Spielberg directed it as close to the real life Schindler as much as possible


Right so real effort was put in 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> AEW has no writers - the wrestlers are the creative party
> 
> therefore every story is ‘written’ by the most first-hand person possible - the wrestler themselves
> 
> TK just decides the finishes and match length and format
> 
> not sure how we got to Schindler’s list from there


@IronMan8 didn't think Swole was fair in saying that black folk should write black folk. 

But there is a legit question on if there should be someone who's role is to help the less creative folk get ideas in. If agents for matches exist why not something for the character aspect. 




Driver79 said:


> So then you do find it problematic obviously if you aren't willing to defend it.
> 
> Tell me do you consider the Street Profits to be a "mockery"? Aren't they also one note stereotypes?


Feel like there's a typo up there. 

I don't see Street Profits as a one note stereotype, if I'm going that direction I'd go Cryme Tyme as one note stereotype but they were funny to me and I mean they come up with it. 

When it comes to that discussion though, every group gets those type of stereotype based characters in wrestlers. I mean how many white angry or stupid ******* characters have there been, Tajiri was running the Yakuza at one point, Finlay had a leprechaun, Mexicools came out on lawn mowers, LAX has damn near been one step away from a street gang for 15 years. Wrestling going to get them stereotypes in regardless of who you are and where you're from.


----------



## Dizzie

I can't believe this is still a discussion, the irony is this is the most relevant swole will ever be, much like a lot of wwe releases that start shooting to try and keep their name relevant as they can't back it up as an actual talent.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Firefromthegods said:


> To the poster that asked me to close this no dice. It's an important discussion to have. It's not about pushes or main event title wins. It's about representation. Marketing the best black, Asian, Latino talent. Not just slapping a belt on them to fill some token quota. Is Swole who I would pick for championing something like this? Certainly not. But it's a conversation we should be having.
> 
> Responses like Tony Khans are exactly why we need the dialogue.


*The problem with this thread is people are more concerned about shooting the messenger than discussing the legitimate criticisms. It's mostly being boiled down to "Her contract wasn't extended because she sucked." Okay, and if wrestler of the year Bianca Bel-Air said the same thing (which she does regularly in a more PR friendly way) you'd still find a way to deflect from the issue at hand.

No Black person here has said put the World title on Scorpio Sky. He's boring AF. We're simply saying Black (and minority) wrestlers in general could be used better.

Private Party hasn't done shit since they beat the Young Bucks two years ago. There was an opportunity for them to win the Impact Tag Titles and they botched that completely and have been on a downward spiral ever since. PNP has done fuckall in two years.

Hikaru Shida's title reign was largely spent in catering and the crowd. Nyla's short title reign was entirely forgettable, and Riho was never even here. Meanwhille, Britt Baker, my favorite wrestler in this company, was given 5-10 minute promo segments for a year straight. Of course she's going to be massively over.

Hook in two weeks has had more impact than Will Hobbs in two years. 

If you're not seeing the problem, it's because you don't want to.*


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> Feel like there's a typo up there.
> 
> I don't see Street Profits as a one note stereotype, if I'm going that direction I'd go Cryme Tyme as one note stereotype but they were funny to me and I mean they come up with it.


So a stereotype is allowed then so long as @RapShepard finds it funny? What if another black person didn't find it so funny? What if they told you that they were even more insulted that a black person came up with it?

This is what I'm saying, you can't have this double standard.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> @IronMan8 didn't think Swole was fair in saying that black folk should write black folk.
> 
> But there is a legit question on if there should be someone who's role is to help the less creative folk get ideas in. If agents for matches exist why not something for the character aspect.


well, that is a silly statement from her - there’s no writers in aew

when a ‘black folk’ is involved in the angle / segment - it is already getting input from a ‘black folk’

not sure what she’s on about

and if you‘re ‘any folk’ and you’re not creative enough - step aside / not the place for you


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *The problem with this thread is people are more concerned about shooting the messenger than discussing the legitimate criticisms. It's mostly being boiled down to "Her contract wasn't extended because she sucked." Okay, and if wrestler of the year Bianca Bel-Air said the same thing (which she does regularly in a more PR friendly way) you'd still find a way to deflect from the issue at hand.
> 
> No Black person here has said put the World title on Scorpio Sky. He's boring AF. We're simply saying Black (and minority) wrestlers in general could be used better.
> 
> Private Party hasn't done shit since they beat the Young Bucks two years ago. There was an opportunity for them to win the Impact Tag Titles and they botched that completely and have been on a downward spiral ever since. PNP has done fuckall in two years.
> 
> Hikaru Shida's title reign was largely spent in catering and the crowd. Nyla's short title reign was entirely forgettable, and Riho was never even here. Meanwhille, Britt Baker, my favorite wrestler in this company, was given 5-10 minute promo segments for a year straight. Of course she's going to be massively over.
> 
> Hook in two weeks has had more impact than Will Hobbs in two years.
> 
> If you're not seeing the problem, it's because you don't want to.*


this is a hyperbolic overreaction and a cherry picking based on your own perspective

which is my same issue with Swole’s comments

saying stuff like ‘Nyla’s short reign was completely‘ forgettable, undermines her whole reign

ignoring all the facts of the stats too / it makes these statements just factually untrue

which brings the question why they should be entertained from the start if they come from a place of dishonesty - in this case’s Swole’s / or from a place of blinkers - in this case, yours for underselling everything minorities have achieved in AEW or in the case of an agenda / ie> any hater willing to latch onto anything negative and magnify it

all of this hyperbole, yours included dilutes any reasonable point there was to be had to start with

the roster is diverse enough, and there has been enough opportunities with more ever growing

and i would like a fact and figure based argument to the contrary - which nobody has been able to give / its all ‘feelings’


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> this is a hyperbolic overreaction and a cherry picking based on your own perspective
> 
> which is my same issue with Swole’s comments
> 
> saying stuff like ‘Nyla’s short reign was completely‘ forgettable, undermines her whole reign
> 
> ignoring all the facts of the stats too / it makes these statements just factually untrue
> 
> which brings the question why they should be entertained from the start if they come from a place of dishonesty - in this case’s Swole’s / or from a place of blinkers - in this case, yours for underselling everything minorities have achieved in AEW or in the case of an agenda / ie> any hater willing to latch onto anything negative and magnify it
> 
> all of this hyperbole, yours included dilutes any reasonable point there was to be had to start with
> 
> the roster is diverse enough, and there has been enough opportunities with more ever growing
> 
> and i would like a fact and figure based argument to the contrary - which nobody has been able to give / its all ‘feelings’


*Tell us about Nyla's critically acclaimed reign with several epic matches and impactful moments. Tell us about Private Party's massive impact on the tag division. Say Will Hobbs has been anything but an underwhelming enforcer. Lie about Shida not being in the crowd as women's champ. I can't wait to see everything I missed while in a coma.*


----------



## yeahright2

I don´t even care much about Swoles comments. She sucks, that´s no secret. It´s also no secret that the Khan family donated $1 Million to Trump, so I think it´s safe to say where they stand politically (just as Jericho, Hager, Bucks and Cody). They´re allowed to vote whatever they want.

My issue is Tony pulling the race card to "prove" how diverse they are, and then publicly stating she sucked at wrestling. A CEO should not bury ex-talent like that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Tell us about Nyla's critically acclaimed reign with several epic matches and impactful moments. Tell us about Private Party's massive impact on the tag division. Lie about Shida not being in the crowd as world champ. I can't wait to see everything I missed while in a coma.*


Well, let me tell you about something else instead - cause I already did 2021 stats and figures and it proves everything I’m saying

so, instead - I will use the critics - ie> your own argument to prove my point

and it is fucking irrefutable - cause you and many others have made this argument in the past

‘Everybody is booked to look strong’

AEWs core, is to make everybody look legit - from the lower card to mid to main eventers. People get long matches and are never really buried. You are always meant to believe anybody can beat anybody. This is a fact as much as ‘Mickey is a mouse’ since you all complain about it every week

Great - so if that is irrefutable, and it has to be - otherwise you have to change your stance on this in 2022 / and you then look at the matches of the year, how the top 10 were featured - then it is 100% proven that ‘AEW is diverse’

because diversity is not just about quotas - which AEW meets, incidentally - but it is about ’making the audience believe a minority character is legitimate and has the chance to win on any given day’

tell me in my eye they have not done that


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> So a stereotype is allowed then so long as @RapShepard finds it funny? What if another black person didn't find it so funny? What if they told you that they were even more insulted that a black person came up with it?
> 
> This is what I'm saying, you can't have this double standard.


I don't think you read very well lol. What I find funny and fine, doesn't mean I can't see why somebody else might have a problem with it. I mean I have literal relatives that find rap and the current crop of popular black reality shows to be inappropriate depictions of black people. I get why they feel that way giving what's being depicted, doesn't mean I have to feel that way. 

Are you incapable of finding validity in opinions you might not share?



LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, that is a silly statement from her - there’s no writers in aew
> 
> when a ‘black folk’ is involved in the angle / segment - it is already getting input from a ‘black folk’
> 
> not sure what she’s on about
> 
> and if you‘re ‘any folk’ *and you’re not creative enough - step aside* / not the place for you


Don't get this part, why not help people develop or have a cushion on that side of the fence. There can be a middle ground between Vince micromanaging and "you better figure it out yourself".


----------



## CM Buck

Driver79 said:


> So a stereotype is allowed then so long as @RapShepard finds it funny? What if another black person didn't find it so funny? What if they told you that they were even more insulted that a black person came up with it?
> 
> This is what I'm saying, you can't have this double standard.


You don't need to tag someone you're quoting directly.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Don't get this part, why not help people develop or have a cushion on that side of the fence. There can be a middle ground between Vince micromanaging and "you better figure it out yourself".


Cause its not AEWs way

you’re all asking for an ‘identity‘ - well, there it is - laid bare for the world

’AEW is the place where creative wrestlers thrive’ - it is the opposite to WWE and they’re ‘we do everything’

its job was never to be kind of the one or kind of the other. If a talent wants things handed to them on a platter - and there is ZERO wrong with that - try and get into WWE / there is a mass of opportunities there

for everybody who wants to carve their own path, AEW should be their ‘destination wrestling’

its about mindsets


----------



## Garty

yeahright2 said:


> I don´t even care much about Swoles comments. She sucks, that´s no secret. It´s also no secret that the Khan family donated $1 Million to Trump, so I think it´s safe to say where they stand politically (just as Jericho, Hager, Bucks and Cody). They´re allowed to vote whatever they want.
> 
> *My issue is Tony pulling the race card to "prove" how diverse they are, and then publicly stating she sucked at wrestling. A CEO should not bury ex-talent like that.*


Swole accused his company of not being diverse enough. He responded with a fact. Facts don't have feelings. Could he, or should he, have not said what he did after refuting that point... sure you can argue that point, but I feel that sooner or later that point would have come up anyway. If Tony was asked "well if it wasn't about race, then what was it", he probably would have replied with the same answer he did give, although to some, prematurely.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Well, let me tell you about something else instead - cause I already did 2021 stats and figures and it proves everything I’m saying
> 
> so, instead - I will use the critics - ie> your own argument to prove my point
> 
> and it is fucking irrefutable - cause you and many others have made this argument in the past
> 
> ‘Everybody is booked to look strong’
> 
> AEWs core, is to make everybody look legit - from the lower card to mid to main eventers. People get long matches and are never really buried. You are always meant to believe anybody can beat anybody. This is a fact as much as ‘Mickey is a mouse’ since you all complain about it every week
> 
> Great - so if that is irrefutable, and it has to be - otherwise you have to change your stance on this in 2022 / and you then look at the matches of the year, how the top 10 were featured - then it is 100% proven that ‘AEW is diverse’
> 
> because diversity is not just about quotas - which AEW meets, incidentally - but it is about ’making the audience believe a minority character is legitimate and has the chance to win on any given day’
> 
> tell me in my eye they have not done that


*No, I don't, because again, you are deflecting because you know good and well most of these people haven't had an impact. Using your own logic, Pete Avalon is on Cody's level, right? Fuck no, he's still a Dark mainstay, which only emphasizes how stupid it is for stars to have long matches with jobbers. It makes the feat of a long match meaningless since anyone can do it with everyone. 

The only minority that has been used consistently well is Jade, and she ironically has the least experience, but at least they're smart enough to recognize her star power. Everyone else has been thrown in the shuffle as interchangeable pawns.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Garty said:


> Swole accused his company of not being diverse enough. He responded with a fact. Facts don't have feelings. Could he, or should he, have not said what he did... sure you can argue that point, but I feel that sooner or later that point would have come up anyway. If Tony was asked "well if it wasn't about race, then what was it", he probably would have replied with the same answer he did give, although to some, prematurely.


The 2nd part of his tweet was unneeded and a bad call

not just for Swole, but for his lockerroom trust

no two Ways about it


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> I don't think you read very well lol. What I find funny and fine, doesn't mean I can't see why somebody else might have a problem with it. I mean I have literal relatives that find rap and the current crop of popular black reality shows to be inappropriate depictions of black people. I get why they feel that way giving what's being depicted, doesn't mean I have to feel that way.
> 
> Are you incapable of finding validity in opinions you might not share?


If it's a valid opinion sure, but not when it's based in total nonsense.

The notion that a black wrestler must have black representation in a writer's room is total nonsense.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *No, I don't, because again, you are deflecting because you know good and well none of these people have had an impact. Using your own logic, Pete Avalon is on Cody's level, right? Fuck no, he's still a Dark mainstay, which only emphasizes how stupid it is for stars to have long matches with jobbers. It makes the feat of a long match meaningless since anyone can do it with everyone.
> 
> The only minority that has been used consistently well is Jade, and she iironically has the least experience, but at least they're smart enough to recognize her star power. Everyone else has been thrown in the shuffle as interchangeable pawns.*


Prove your statement - look at that 2021 figures and TV matches i drew up and prove it

you will be 100% unable too, cause you suffer from the same thing anybody in a forum who ‘feels’ to much suffers

you pick scenarios out of the sky and try and argue it

the facts and figures disprove Swole’s whole statement

i am the only one not deflecting - i am looking at pure fact


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Cause its not AEWs way
> 
> you’re all asking for an ‘identity‘ - well, there it is - laid bare for the world
> 
> ’AEW is the place where creative wrestlers thrive’ - it is the opposite to WWE and they’re ‘we do everything’
> 
> its job was never to be kind of the one or kind of the other. If a talent wants things handed to them on a platter - and there is ZERO wrong with that - try and get into WWE / there is a mass of opportunities there
> 
> for everybody who wants to carve their own path, AEW should be their ‘destination wrestling’
> 
> its about mindsets


Absolutely its about mindset but Tony does control who gets put out there. Sure sky is getting opportunities. But you then have Starks or Hobbs who get 30 seconds if they are lucky. It's on the talent AND Tony to maximise the opportunities 

And come on man. WWE is not the place where you get handed opportunities.


----------



## yeahright2

Garty said:


> Swole accused his company of not being diverse enough. He responded with a fact. Facts don't have feelings. Could he, or should he, have not said what he did after refuting that point... sure you can argue that point, but I feel that sooner or later that point would have come up anyway. If Tony was asked "well if it wasn't about race, then what was it", he probably would have replied with the same answer he did give, although to some, prematurely.


Then have one of his stooges come out and say it. That´s why you have them.. To say shit you can´t say yourself because of your position. A polite answer would have been "we have chosen to go in another direction, so she wasn´t needed" (aka "creative got nothing for you")


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> Absolutely its about mindset but Tony does control who gets put out there. Sure sky is getting opportunities. But you then have Starks or Hobbs who get 30 seconds if they are lucky. It's on the talent AND Tony to maximise the opportunities
> 
> And come on man. WWE is not the place where you get handed opportunities.


Not ’handed opportunities’ - ‘handed scripts and everything else’ that you have to do

its still difficult and I did not try to diminish it at all - in fact, doing wrestling like an actor might even be harder

TK also controls what gets out there, yes - but it has to start with an idea from the talent - that much has been confirmed. And he has taken plenty of chances putting stuff out there he didn’t believe in, but trusted the talent to get over - that much has also been confirmed plenty times

ps> and Starks and Hobbs should be featured more, I agree - but they are not being featured cause they are part players in ‘Dante’s story’ at the moment - which is getting featured

not everybody can be the main character - at the moment Dante is / they are obviously invested in getting him to ‘pillar’ level


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Cause its not AEWs way
> 
> you’re all asking for an ‘identity‘ - well, there it is - laid bare for the world
> 
> ’AEW is the place where creative wrestlers thrive’ - it is the opposite to WWE and they’re ‘we do everything’
> 
> its job was never to be kind of the one or kind of the other. If a talent wants things handed to them on a platter - and there is ZERO wrong with that - try and get into WWE / there is a mass of opportunities there
> 
> for everybody who wants to carve their own path, AEW should be their ‘destination wrestling’
> 
> its about mindsets


I mean is "we refuse to help you with creative" really an identity? Clearly they know they have to help develop the green wrestlers in ring. So being all "nope we can't help you develop in that other important aspect" is down right foolish. 

I definitely get the idea of folk that are constantly coming up with ideas are going to have easier times getting opportunities. 




Driver79 said:


> If it's a valid opinion sure, but not when it's based in total nonsense.
> 
> The notion that a black wrestler must have black representation in a writer's room is total nonsense.


Okay let's take race out of it since that's touchy

Have you never watched a show where the dialogue or characters felt off because it was clear the writers didn't really know how to portray it properly?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I mean is "we refuse to help you with creative" really an identity? Clearly they know they have to help develop the green wrestlers in ring. So being all "nope we can't help you develop in that other important aspect" is down right foolish.
> 
> I definitely get the idea of folk that are constantly coming up with ideas are going to have easier times getting opportunities.


I mean I think its an identity - cause its the same way on the indies

if nothing else, you have to grind it out in the indies and carve your own opportunities - AEW‘s spirit has always been ‘indy-adjacent‘ with the Bucks, Kenny, Frankie, Scorpio etc etc etc in there

i don’t think that doesn’t mean they don’t develop people - as they clearly are with Jade - but I think it means they value ‘free thinkers’ more than ’think for me’ people

and that‘s a valid viewpoint and should be respected - just like WWE’s is of ‘here is a script, do what we tell you’ is


----------



## Garty

RapShepard said:


> *Have you never watched a show where the dialogue or characters felt off because it was clear the writers didn't really know how to portray it properly?*


Doesn't that happen every week on a WWE program?!


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Prove your statement - look at that 2021 figures and TV matches i drew up and prove it
> 
> you will be 100% unable too, cause you suffer from the same thing anybody in a forum who ‘feels’ to much suffers
> 
> you pick scenarios out of the sky and try and argue it
> 
> the facts and figures disprove Swole’s whole statement
> 
> i am the only one not deflecting - i am looking at pure fact


*Your figures mean nothing. We are talking about IMPACT and presentation. You are blatantly ignoring the failures in that regard with inflated records that don't mean shit because it's obvious 90% of the time who's winning in this company and there are tons of useless matches that do nothing for anyone, regardless of the result.*


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> Okay let's take race out of it since that's touchy
> 
> Have you never watched a show where the dialogue or characters felt off because it was clear the writers didn't really know how to portray it properly?


Of course, what is your point? That only black people know how to "portray" other black people?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Your figures mean nothing. We are talking about IMPACT and presentation. You are blatantly ignoring the failures in that regard with inflated records that don't mean shit because it's obvious 90% of the time who's winning in this company and there are tons of useless matches that do nothing for anyone, regardless of the result.*


Now who is deflecting

i’ve addressed ‘impact and presentation’ already with your own argument of ‘everybody is booked to look strong’

backtrack on that, and I’ll relook for new proof


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Not ’handed opportunities’ - ‘handed scripts and everything else’ that you have to do
> 
> its still difficult and I did not try to diminish it at all - in fact, doing wrestling like an actor might even be harder
> 
> TK also controls what gets out there, yes - but it has to start with an idea from the talent - that much has been confirmed. And he has taken plenty of chances putting stuff out there he didn’t believe in, but trusted the talent to get over - that much has also been confirmed plenty times
> 
> ps> and Starks and Hobbs should be featured more, I agree - but they are not being featured cause they are part players in ‘Dante’s story’ at the moment - which is getting featured
> 
> not everybody can be the main character - at the moment Dante is


It's barely getting featured that's the point I'm trying to make. It's on Tony as booker to make us care right? Tazz mentions it on commentary but it's very obvious Tony doesn't care about it. He wants us to know he sees Dante as a future star but he isn't doing that.

You got rampage, your second show, use that show to really amp up your midcard feuds. Put your main or big feuds on rampage and put your secondary feuds on rampage.

Take race out of it and that's the whole crux of her argument. Not enough talent gets the opportunity to eat. Creative freedom doesn't mean do everything yourself. It means you and the booker work together instead of the booker doing everything.

Creative control means the talent books themselves. And only the elite guys have that


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I mean I think its an identity - cause its the same way on the indies
> 
> if nothing else, you have to grind it out in the indies and carve your own opportunities - AEW‘s spirit has always been ‘indy-adjacent‘ with the Bucks, Kenny, Frankie, Scorpio etc etc etc in there
> 
> i don’t think that doesn’t mean they don’t develop people - as they clearly are with Jade - but I think it means they value ‘free thinkers’ more than ’think for me’ people
> 
> and that‘s a valid viewpoint and should be respected - just like WWE’s is of ‘here is a script, do what we tell you’ is


I think identity I think like GCW being the death match place. This is more a practice. But whatever lol (non-snarky)


I get valuing the free thinkers, it makes shit easier after all. But I bring up the middle ground because of what Jeff Hardy said on his Broken Skull Session. He talked about how in his career he never really felt comfortable pitching so he left it to Matt. Now I'm not saying this for Swole, just saying there are stars that aren't exactly outgoing or creative and need the helping hand. 




Garty said:


> Doesn't that happen every week on a WWE program?!


Lol you wouldn't be telling lies


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> It's barely getting featured that's the point I'm trying to make. It's on Tony as booker to make us care right? Tazz mentions it on commentary but it's very obvious Tony doesn't care about it. He wants us to know he sees Dante as a future star but he isn't doing that.
> 
> You got rampage, your second show, use that show to really amp up your midcard feuds. Put your main or big feuds on rampage and put your secondary feuds on rampage.
> 
> Take race out of it and that's the whole crux of her argument. Not enough talent gets the opportunity to eat. Creative freedom doesn't mean do everything yourself. It means you and the booker work together instead of the booker doing everything.
> 
> Creative control means the talent books themselves. And only the elite guys have that


what do you mean ‘he isn’t showing it’ with Dante?

he has shown it expertly - you take a guy heavily featured in 2021, but losing - put him with a new mouthpiece and suddenly he starts winning - goes on a streak and only loses out on a big prize (the ring) against a mega featured ‘pillar’ and due to interference

now you’ve set him up with lots of story for 2022

if her argument ‘not enough talent gets time to eat’ - that is not a diversity one / that is a ‘there is too much talent‘ one


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Now who is deflecting
> 
> i’ve addressed ‘impact and presentation’ already with your own argument of ‘everybody is booked to look strong’
> 
> backtrack on that, and I’ll relook for new proof


*I told you why that's bullshit and you've failed to address it multiple times. I'm still waiting for you to lie to these people and say Private Party is an impactful tag team, Shida wasn't in the crowd throughout her title reign, Nyla had a ton of moments, and Pete Avalon is equal to Cody. You said I've downplayed the accomplishments of minorities here, so post all those great moments I didn't see while cryogenically frozen.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I think identity I think like GCW being the death match place. This is more a practice. But whatever lol (non-snarky)
> 
> 
> I get valuing the free thinkers, it makes shit easier after all. But I bring up the middle ground because of what Jeff Hardy said on his Broken Skull Session. He talked about how in his career he never really felt comfortable pitching so he left it to Matt. Now I'm not saying this for Swole, just saying there are stars that aren't exactly outgoing or creative and need the helping hand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol you wouldn't be telling lies


i dunno mate - it might be harsh - but i would say talent without the ‘stuff’ to pitch ideas just needs to spend more time on the indies - they’ll pick up that skill there - they’ll have to

this isn’t 2 years ago where The Dub is desperate to sign anybody / i think there is nothing wrong with focusing on talent who have properly cut their teeth on the indies

like, i would take Gresham over them trying to ‘train’ a new guy from scratch, right- if there was another batch of signings


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I told you why that's bullshit and you've failed to address it multiple times. I'm still waiting for you to lie to these people and say Private Party is an impactful tag team, Shida wasn't in the crowd, Nyla had a ton of moments, and Pete Avalon is equal to Cody. You said I've downplayed the accomplishments of minorities here, so post all those great moments I didn't see while cryogenically frozen.*


private party was in the background in 2022, but so was TH2 or the butcher and the blade etc etc etc

and isn’t that true equality?

you can’t just take one talent and say ‘what about this’ and not talk about the ‘what about this’ of the rest of the landscape

Shida was in the crowd, so was baker and kris. And so on and so on and so forth

you just want to argue from your singular viewpoint while i argue from the landscape

’the figures are bullshit’ - lol, imagine


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what do you mean ‘he isn’t showing it’ with Dante?
> 
> he has shown it expertly - you take a guy heavily featured in 2021, but losing - put him with a new mouthpiece and suddenly he starts winning - goes on a streak and only loses out on a big prize (the ring) against a mega featured ‘pillar’ and due to interference
> 
> now you’ve set him up with lots of story for 2022
> 
> if her argument ‘not enough talent gets time to eat’ - that is not a diversity one / that is a ‘there is too much talent‘ one


Been hardly any follow-up since then though. The story still feels lukewarm now and it shouldn't be. We could have shaved 10 minutes off of Jade and thunder and heated up again for example.

It's a formatting issue


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> Been hardly any follow-up since then though. The story still feels lukewarm now and it shouldn't be. We could have shaved 10 minutes off of Jade and thunder and heated up again for example.
> 
> It's a formatting issue


whaat? The last bit of the story happened just the other day

15 dec match / and then a Starks and Hobbs promo last week

ps> but if its a formatting issue, then it is one for all talent - which again, diversity is not the issue


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> Of course, what is your point? That only black people know how to "portray" other black people?


You literally just acknowledged the point lol. Sometimes not knowing what the fuck you're talking about can lead to terrible writing that isn't authentic.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Firefromthegods said:


> Been hardly any follow-up since then though. The story still feels lukewarm now and it shouldn't be. We could have shaved 10 minutes off of Jade and thunder and heated up again for example.
> 
> It's a formatting issue


*I halfway agree. Rosa didn't deserve to be squashed, but Dante does deserve more time for his story, not wrestling. We already know he's phenomenal in the ring.*


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> whaat? The last bit of the story happened just the other day
> 
> 15 dec match / and then a Starks and Hobbs promo last week


2 minutes man. It got 2 minutes. It couldn't have been a 10 minute segment?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> 2 minutes man. It got 2 minutes. It couldn't have been a 10 minute segment?


you know the stories gets rotated out for everybody

i know some guys don‘t like it - but i do

Bryan / Hangman also only got a small promo last week on 2 shows - same complaint?


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i dunno mate - it might be harsh - but i would say talent without the ‘stuff’ to pitch ideas just needs to spend more time on the indies - they’ll pick up that skill there - they’ll have to
> 
> this isn’t 2 years ago where The Dub is desperate to sign anybody / i think there is nothing wrong with focusing on talent who have properly cut their teeth on the indies
> 
> like, i would take Gresham over them trying to ‘train’ a new guy from scratch, right- if there was another batch of signings


To me it just comes off as an over correction in the opposite direction. While they may come from the indies they aren't one. They have what about 100 plus contracted wrestlers. Expecting all to be out going with creative is wishful thinking. Not to mention asking for a headache. Imagine trying to sort out that many ideas. Hell that probably leads to why things feel so frantic and disjointed at times, or why sometimes the same thing is happening in multiple spots. 

But his company they do what they want.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> To me it just comes off as an over correction in the opposite direction. While they may come from the indies they aren't one. They have what about 100 plus contracted wrestlers. Expecting all to be out going with creative is wishful thinking. Not to mention asking for a headache. Imagine trying to sort out that many ideas. Hell that probably leads to why things feel so frantic and disjointed at times, or why sometimes the same thing is happening in multiple spots.
> 
> But his company they do what they want.


its definitely why sometimes spots are repeated or things seem disjointed sometimes

but that’s ‘aew’ to me - i (and many others) love that manic energy - it feels like a high-end indy

i would hate for it to change TBH


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its definitely why sometimes spots are repeated or things seem disjointed sometimes
> 
> but that’s ‘aew’ to me - i (and many others) love that manic energy - it feels like a high-end indy
> 
> i would hate for it to change TBH


It definitely is a "that's AEW" thing I wouldn't say it's a positive, but more a mild passable annoyance lol. 

It's like does every match need a post match beat down

Does every hardcore match need a thumbtack spot

It's like they set up their own set of stale crutches for no reason, least to me.


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> You literally just acknowledged the point lol. Sometimes not knowing what the fuck you're talking about can lead to terrible writing that isn't authentic.


Again you operate under the logic that black people live in their own separate bubble and are special beings that can only be properly understood by other black people.

Can I ask what you believe makes us so different?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Driver79 said:


> Again you operate under the logic that black people live in their own separate bubble and are special beings that can only be properly understood by other black people.
> 
> Can I ask what you believe makes us so different?


*Well first of all, that Brandi segment wouldn't have aired it went through Black people. We can start there.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Well first of all, that Brandi segment wouldn't have aired it went through Black people. We can start there.*


lolll, Brandi is a black people / no matter how much you hate her


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> It definitely is a "that's AEW" thing I wouldn't say it's a positive, but more a mild passable annoyance lol.
> 
> It's like does every match need a post match beat down
> 
> Does every hardcore match need a thumbtack spot
> 
> It's like they set up their own set of stale crutches for no reason, least to me.


i’m gonna need you to adapt to AEW rather than it to you, purely for my own selfish enjoyment


----------



## Driver79

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Well first of all, that Brandi segment wouldn't have aired it went through Black people. We can start there.*


Is Brandi not a black person herself?

What a ridiculous thing to say.


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> Again you operate under the logic that black people live in their own separate bubble and are special beings that can only be properly understood by other black people.
> 
> Can I ask what you believe makes us so different?


Why is it so hard to acknowledge that different groups experience different things and it can be tough to intricately detail those differences well if you haven't lived it or have thorough knowledge of the subject. 

Taking it off race to something less serious

You don't have to be a skater to make a rise to the top story about a skater, because sure there will just be some aspects that will be universal with any rise to the top story. 

But if you have 0 actual experience in the skate scene and culture or don't have someone that was to bounce ideas off of about how skate scenes are, then you're probably going to produce something that feels generic and inauthentic.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’m gonna need you to adapt to AEW rather than it to you, purely for my own selfish enjoyment


Lol


----------



## Gwi1890

RapShepard said:


> You literally just acknowledged the point lol. Sometimes not knowing what the fuck you're talking about can lead to terrible writing that isn't authentic.


not calling you out on this, but can you elaborate and give an example?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lolll, Brandi is a black people / no matter how much you hate her


* And again, you've completely missed the point, because you're not Black, you don't get it, and you never will.*


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Well first of all, that Brandi segment wouldn't have aired it went through Black people. We can start there.*


I'm not black, but I found her whole promo there weird, like she was trying to channel this like ratchet type personality on purpose.

Given her standing in the company though I wonder if she was just allowed to do it herself, or if they had like Tony/Cody and others agree with it or something.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> * And again, you've completely missed the point, because you're not Black, you don't get it, and you never will.*


el oh el

the age old argument as if your situation or culture is so hard to comprehend, nobody with another skin colour will ever ‘get it’

i was born and live in one of the most racially charged counties in the world. I’ve seen all sides - i’ve seen the priviledge afforded to me from childhood by a corrupt apartheid government and i’ve also seen that turn around into a mass ‘correcting’ where i am a minority with all it entails, a white middle-aged man in Africa without a leg to stand on.

Can not even count the amount of times i was told to ‘go back to europe’ by by own government just last year

you guys in America are only playing at this shit, i’ve lived it every which way on all sides - that is what makes this all so funny.

a wrestling show… lol

yeah, i know Brandi ‘plays black’ - but that does not remove the actual fact that she is black, no matter if people ‘from the culture’ want to disown her - it shouldn’t invalidate her identity


----------



## GothicBohemian

shandcraig said:


> lets just cancel everything because a small percentage of people are upset over nothing. take that to japan and you wont find people caring. this is an american issue and a small percentage
> 
> plus in reality if you look at the list of that character there is nothing wrong with it. People come up with any shit to think its somehow wrong when its not.


Best not take racial stereotype issues to China. They will let you know exactly what they think. (So will Japan.)
Mercedes sparks fury in China over ad with models with 'slanted eyes'




IronMan8 said:


> Dumb argument.
> 
> J. K. Rowling did a pretty good job writing all the male characters in Harry Potter, did she not?
> 
> Checkmate.





IronMan8 said:


> No, that's dumb.
> 
> If a woman wrote Harry Potter, then that's evidence you don't need to be male to write male characters, which is what you were trying to argue with Steph and Shane.
> 
> Debate over.





IronMan8 said:


> Nope, that's dumb.
> 
> A professional writer can write a story from multiple perspectives.
> 
> It's wrong to argue that a writer can only write from past first-hand experiences.
> 
> Debate over.


Of course a writer learns to see from various perspectives. You use JK Rowling as an example; she wrote what she knew at the time, which was how it felt to be on the lower rung. She began the HP books when she lived in poverty as a single mom trying to build a life within a system where she had as much power as a child. HP didn't become a phenomenon because she wrote a stunning portrayal of young boyhood, it grabbed young imaginations because she understood how kids feel in a world where adults make decisions for you and where the chance that something magical will happen to fix it all is a common dream.

The amount of work that goes on before even attempting to write a word when dealing with what you do not know is so far beyond the level of effort available to pro wrestling creative that there's no similarity at all. If I wanted an authentic story for, say, a Japanese wrestler I'd ask a Japanese wrestler or at least someone who has lived in Japan and knows the cultural intricacies. I'd get it wrong if I tried to do it myself since I've never lived in Japan and know nothing about how people there talk to each other.

-----------

I love that AEW lets talent pitch their own ideas and try those ideas out in front of crowds, but I've also noticed most of the complex stories and prioritized screen time goes to people who are all kind of similar and trying to tell pretty similar stories.

Aside from Malakai, and to a lesser extent Miro, who has a really interesting story right now that amounts to more than _I'm gonna go in the ring and beat this person and I'll do it in a way that makes the crowd chant_ or _Grr, I don't like you and you dress funny_? Not everyone's a Malakai or a Miro. Most wrestlers aren't. Just like few wrestlers have MJF's ability to feed off a crowd and keep lengthy monologues going in full heel mode, few are able to dream up really original booking ideas for themselves. Being an active participant in the creative process and having the ability to veto ideas is important but so is having someone whose strength is creativity to toss around ideas with.

Other than the Lucha Bros big ppv entrance, how often do we see anything culturally relevant to the wrestlers? Tay and Thunder Rosa have flags sometimes. I guess that counts, sort of. Most of the time it all seems very middle America with a wrestling flavour. I am NOT asking for stereotypes - I've already been clear about my hate for Dancin' Natives - I'm asking for creative authenticity and not just for minorities. For everyone. I think a bit of creative help, not scripting or taking over the creative side, just guidance, would allow wrestlers to build unique stories for themselves and improve characters they've worked on during their developmental and indie years. And yes, I do think diversity is needed in creative sessions. It's really hard to tell someone else's story without a lot of research, interviews, and breaking down barriers to build trust.

AEW has creative freedom, yet it all still looks the same. The wrestlers who best fit the existing tropes get the most screen time. I don't think for a second that this is intentional, it's more a byproduct of not developing the creative side in talent that maybe needs more help in that aspect than they do in the ring.

EDIT: When I say it looks the same, I'm talking about the creative side, not the in-ring action which is very diverse in some ways and yet noticeably repetitive in others.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dr. Middy said:


> I'm not black, but I found her whole promo there weird, like she was trying to channel this like ratchet type personality on purpose.
> 
> Given her standing in the company though I wonder if she was just allowed to do it herself, or if they had like Tony/Cody and others agree with it or something.


* She probably just had the free reign to do that, but I'm glad you as a white man understand the undertones of what was happening there. She was forcing a stereotypical blaccent when she hasn't been in the hood a day in her life, to appeal to the lowest common denominator that thinks all Black women speak that way, and she also gave them a license to call her a Black bitch. It was incredibly stupid and did nothing to get this feud over. She just wanted brownie points from a fan base who is still going to hate her when she comes out acting like her normal self.*


----------



## RapShepard

Gwi1890 said:


> not calling you out on this, but can you elaborate and give an example?


Again taking it away from race to lighten the mood.

Something like Vince nixing the over midcard Paul Burchill pirate character because Vince wasn't aware of Pirates of the Caribbean and Jack Sparrow. 

If somebody younger and in touch with the subject was in charge maybe that character gets a nice little run before organically transitioning to something else.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> el oh el
> 
> the age old argument as if your situation or culture is so hard to comprehend, nobody with another skin colour will ever ‘get it’
> 
> *i was born and live in one of the most racially charged counties in the world. I’ve seen all sides - i’ve seen the priviledge afforded to me from childhood by a corrupt apartheid government and i’ve also seen that turn around into a mass ‘correcting’ where i am a minority with all it entails, a white middle-aged man in Africa without a leg to stand on.
> 
> Can not even count the amount of times i was told to ‘go back to europe’ by by own government just last year*
> 
> you guys in America are only playing at this shit, i’ve lived it every which way on all sides - that is what makes this all so funny.
> 
> a wrestling show… lol
> 
> yeah, i know Brandi ‘plays black’ - but that does not remove the actual fact that she is black, no matter if people ‘from the culture’ want to disown her - it shouldn’t invalidate her identity


But this is also why Swole isn't off in her talking about the need for representation to accurately depict things (at least on certain things). I can sympathize with your position due to empathy. I can especially understand how annoying "go back to Europe" because I can draw the parallel to that and "go back to Africa". But because I've never been the racial majority, there is a cap to some degree on how much I can understand what that flip of power is like. I definitely don't need a degree to know it has to be frustrating. But I'm sure for you who's lived it, even a word like frustrating is probably a disservice.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> But this is also why Swole isn't off in her talking about the need for representation to accurately depict things (at least on certain things). I can sympathize with your position due to empathy. I can especially understand how annoying "go back to Europe" because I can draw the parallel to that and "go back to Africa". But because I've never been the racial majority, there is a cap to some degree on how much I can understand what that flip of power is like. I definitely don't need a degree to know it has to be frustrating. But I'm sure for you who's lived it, even a word like frustrating is probably a disservice.


well, i can say this - from an outsider looking in, the USA is further along than you guys give yourself credit for - and it is ok to stop and smell the flowers of your progress. I mean, popular culture, fashion, music is primarily driven by minorities - like the whole pace of entertainment.

i guess ‘save the hard fights for true injustice’ is kinda what comes to mind

if everything is an outrage always, the actual bad stuff just kinda fades into everything else

while it always needs inspection and discussion, this whole thing‘s response feels out of balance to me, is all

like - if TK starts burying all the black talent or minorities and devotes no time to them or gives them stereotype gimmicks - like getting private party jucking and jivin’ - get out the pitchforks, i’ll be there alongside you

but this discussion, after champs like Riho, Shida, Nyla, Scorpio, Sammy, Lucha’s feels…. Eh… what is the best word

i dunno - we have a saying for it over here ’complaining with bread under each arm’

hope that makes sense, i’m trying to be honest, not condescending or anything to a sensitive situation


----------



## imscotthALLIN

What do Big Swole, Lio Rush and Antonio Brown all have in common? They’re all fucked in the head.


----------



## Seth Grimes

The Legit Lioness said:


> *That's a desperate reach. We're talking about qualified individuals in their respective field, one of which who happens to be the GOAT, telling you directly that he wouldn't have had the same success in said field if he were Black. I don't need the ridiculous what about isms because you don't like his answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lebron James talking about Eminem | Saying he loves Eminem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> youtube.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Once again, what is your proof that they've been helped by being white outside of Em having white guilt? Is that what your entire idea is based around? Pretty sure Jesse Lee Peterson is qualified as a black person, so by your logic, why is what he said wrong? Claiming whataboutism is a deflection technique, because whataboutism by definition is someone who is asking about something else whilst ignoring the main point. I am directly replying to your main point using a contrast. People who use the word "whataboutism" don't have an answer, so they deflect, which is quite funny considering. So answer the question.


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> Why is it so hard to acknowledge that different groups experience different things and it can be tough to intricately detail those differences well if you haven't lived it or have thorough knowledge of the subject.


"I am confident I know what I am talking about, I just can't explain it to you..." 😐


You can't explain what it means to be black because being black is not a thing. It's a false concept that was planted in your head at a very young age by democrats and mass media. You were conditioned into believing that being black meant more than just having black skin. That it also meant thinking and acting a certain way. 

Black people who choose not to go along with the program, like Candace Owens for example, have their black cards taken away.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan

The real story here is that the women need two matches every Dynamite. It would be simple if they had two shorter matches that don’t run through an ad break. With their luck the two matches will always be reserved for the ladies. 

During the 12 months (DON ‘20 - DON ‘21) Shida had the belt she wrestled around 35 times, 21 Dynamite, 6 PPV. 1 match was on the house show they did at Daily’s Place that was filmed but as of yet unaired. Britt also worked that show in the ladies trios match opposite Shida.

in that same period Dr, Britt Baker worked 22 matches total. IIRC, Britt broke her wrist before she won the title from Shida


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Driver79 said:


> "I am confident I know what I am talking about, I just can't explain it to you..." 😐
> 
> 
> You can't explain what it means to be black because being black is not a thing. It's a false concept that was planted in your head at a very young age by democrats and mass media. You were conditioned into believing that being black meant more than just having black skin. That it also meant thinking and acting a certain way.
> 
> Black people who choose not to go along with the program, like Candace Owens for example, have their black cards taken away.


Eeehhh - being an ‘anything’ is a thing - not the tropes / but the real shit

its formed by culture, food, music, shared experiences, economical climates, history etc etc etc. On the flip side, a culture should always be ‘explainable’ IMO - it is what makes it great and shareable.

but i don’t think you can just go ‘the dems and media taught you that’ - that simplifies it too much by far

and explaining ‘feelings’ will have some hard truths you might not want to hear in the end / does not make them less real to the person - but again, these should be ‘discussable’ things


----------



## Wridacule

The "black bitch" line is a bit cringe. I can't really articulate why.. I guess the biggest question is did she come up with the line herself? Doesn't make it much better if she did, because then we're getting into "tap dancing for the man" territory. It's worse though if some white guy told her to say it. 

I don't think this would be a big deal coming from jade or red velvet. The Rhodes just seem so disingenuous in everything they do. They really are turning into real life heels..


----------



## bdon

Ultimo Duggan said:


> Because I accidentally started reading the Swole/Cody thread on the main page thinking it was this thread…
> Big Swole rough breakdown of her AEW experience. Numbers might be off by one or two for the YouTube shows. I just added them up because it was brought up in the old Swole thread. It felt like she was on Dark more often so I was surprised it was so few.
> 
> 36 matches Dynamite or Rampage
> 7 matches on Dark
> 2 matches on PPV


Well @RapShepard , there goes your argument that she didn’t get the opportunities to get better on TV.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Wridacule said:


> The "black bitch" line is a bit cringe. I can't really articulate why.. I guess the biggest question is did she come up with the line herself? Doesn't make it much better if she did, because then we're getting into "tap dancing for the man" territory. It's worse though if some white guy told her to say it.
> 
> I don't think this would be a big deal coming from jade or red velvet. The Rhodes just seem so disingenuous in everything they do. They really are turning into real life heels..


I mean…. Think about Brandi

you know nobody told her to say that


----------



## Driver79

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Eeehhh - being an ‘anything’ is a thing - not the tropes / but the real shit
> 
> its formed by culture, food, music, shared experiences, economical climates, history etc etc etc. On the flip side, a culture should always be ‘explainable’ IMO - it is what makes it great and shareable.
> 
> but i don’t think you can just go ‘the dems and media taught you that’ - that simplifies it too much by far
> 
> and explaining ‘feelings’ will have some hard truths you might not want to hear in the end / does not make them less real to the person - but again, these should be ‘discussable’ things


Okay then, enlighten me.

Define "black culture".


----------



## Wridacule

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I mean…. Think about Brandi
> 
> you know nobody told her to say that



Which is still kind of cringe. Like...who was that line for lol are they heels? They're so confusing


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Driver79 said:


> Okay then, enlighten me.
> 
> Define "black culture".


maybe not as one homogeneous concept - but we can talk about Jamaican? Or Haitian? Or Vendi? Or Pedi? Or Hutu? Or tutsi? Or zulu? Or xhosa? Or a thousand sub-cultures and beliefs and so on and so forth?

which is what i mean - talking about a macro group as all the same is wrong - but disregarding culture outright is wrong too

cause it definitely does exist - i have a lot of Afrikaans culture things i follow and believe - which is my subgroup of white africans

does not mean its the same as all white people, it doesn’t mean it does not exist either

but most importantly, if you want to write a proper white, afrikaans male in a movie - its best to talk to me about it, cause even a good writer, will not figure it out on their own

i mean… look at Blood Diamond

edit) that doesn’t mean the writer cannot write one after he’s spoken to me


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Wridacule said:


> The "black bitch" line is a bit cringe. I can't really articulate why.. I guess the biggest question is did she come up with the line herself? Doesn't make it much better if she did, because then we're getting into "tap dancing for the man" territory. It's worse though if some white guy told her to say it.
> 
> I don't think this would be a big deal coming from jade or red velvet. The Rhodes just seem so disingenuous in everything they do. They really are turning into real life heels..


*Jade is smart enough to call herself "THAT Bitch" in spite of actually being about that life. Brandi is a self serving tone deaf dipshit that's willing to be laughed at instead of booed. She and Cody are perfect for each other. It just sucks that they have to be on national TV engaging in flagrant idiocy.*


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> Why is it so hard to acknowledge that different groups experience different things and it can be tough to intricately detail those differences well if you haven't lived it or have thorough knowledge of the subject.
> 
> Taking it off race to something less serious
> 
> You don't have to be a skater to make a rise to the top story about a skater, because sure there will just be some aspects that will be universal with any rise to the top story.
> 
> But if you have 0 actual experience in the skate scene and culture or don't have someone that was to bounce ideas off of about how skate scenes are, then you're probably going to produce something that feels generic and inauthentic.


I just learned Ken Burns did not actually live through the Civil War! What a charlatan! I also have a sneaking suspicion David McCullough did not actually know John Adams.

Just a little humor there, because I do get the point you are trying to make here, and there is a lot of truth to it. Having first hand experience in a culture and situation does give a certain insight to it. That is 100% true, but it is also possible to gain a lot of insight through research and studying. I am not trying to equate those things, but I think if someone is trying to make it a black and white (no pun intended) issue of "you did not personally live through this, therefore you cannot know anything about it and cannot have an opinion on it" is silly. That is basically 90% of Twitter. Mario Puzo was never in the mafia, but he wrote some compelling stories about it, etc.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> I just learned Ken Burns did not actually live through the Civil War! What a charlatan! I also have a sneaking suspicion David McCullough did not actually know John Adams.
> 
> Just a little humor there, because I do get the point you are trying to make here, and there is a lot of truth to it. Having first hand experience in a culture and situation does give a certain insight to it. That is 100% true, but it is also possible to gain a lot of insight through research and studying. I am not trying to equate those things, but I think if someone is trying to make it a black and white (no pun intended) issue of "you did not personally live through this, therefore you cannot know anything about it and cannot have an opinion on it" is silly. That is basically 90% of Twitter. Mario Puzo was never in the mafia, but he wrote some compelling stories about it, etc.


that’s the thing - if i’m writing a story and I am writing

Police detective Sonny Briggs, a hard nosed african american detective - i can most likely write it just like i would any character

if i write Detective Sonny Briggs, whose Jamaican mother escaped a life of poverty and crime in 1920 and made her way to the USA, imma need to do some research

if i write Detective Briggs, a 2nd generation Jamaican, raised in the US, with a keen interest in cultural zeitgeist RnB, a love of Jamaican food and he holds the following viewpoints of cultural significance pertinent to this specific geo political case - at the very least i am going to have to model him after somebody famous and researchable to draw easy parralels, or talk to somebody to understand some finer points

if i have a big budget for my movie, i’ll hire a consultant


----------



## Driver79

LifeInCattleClass said:


> maybe not as one homogeneous concept - but we can talk about Jamaican? Or Haitian? Or Vendi? Or Pedi? Or Hutu? Or tutsi? Or zulu? Or xhosa? Or a thousand sub-cultures and beliefs and so on and so forth?


Sure, but then we can't just lump everything under "black culture".

And if there is no such thing as "black cuture", then that means being black means nothing more than having black skin. There is no such thing as "talking black" or "thinking black" or "writing black".


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Driver79 said:


> Sure, but then we can't just lump everything under "black culture".
> 
> And if there is no such thing as "black cuture", then that means being black means nothing more than having black skin. There is no such thing as "talking black" or "thinking black" or "writing black".


i guess it depends what the individual means when they say ‘black culture’

as i pointed out, i can very easily say ‘white afrikaans culture’ and it means a specific thing

can’t image its any different over there

ps) but i concede as i said - just saying ‘white culture’ as if we’re some homogenous blob that all think the same, would be untrue

i like to think we all have more nuance than believing ‘all black people are the same’ and ‘all white people are the same’


----------



## Driver79

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i guess it depends what the individual means when they say ‘black culture’
> 
> as i pointed out, i can very easily say ‘white afrikaans culture’ and it means a specific thing
> 
> can’t image its any different over there
> 
> ps) but i concede as i said - just saying ‘white culture’ as if we’re some homogenous blob that all think the same, would be untrue
> 
> *i like to think we all have more nuance than believing ‘all black people are the same’ and ‘all white people are the same’*


That's exactly what people on the left believe. Being black means thinking a certain way. If you don't think their way, then you aren't really black in their eyes. Joe Biden even had the gall to say it out loud.

Just as the transgender movement has appropriated the word "woman" to mean whatever they want it to mean, the progressive anti-racists have done the same with the world "black".

The problem is when you ask these same people what it means to be "black", they can't tell you.


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i guess it depends what the individual means when they say ‘black culture’
> 
> as i pointed out, i can very easily say ‘white afrikaans culture’ and it means a specific thing
> 
> can’t image its any different over there
> 
> ps) but i concede as i said - just saying ‘white culture’ as if we’re some homogenous blob that all think the same, would be untrue
> 
> i like to think we all have more nuance than believing ‘all black people are the same’ and ‘all white people are the same’


Exactly. I imagine your life experience is very different than mine, and both of ours are quite different than someone from Iceland, even if we have a similar melanin level.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan

It looks like women’s division suffered most during the pandemic - from a booking perspective.

They used a fair number of unsigned women even on Dynamite. This year AEW has been able to stock up more in depth with Jamie Hayter, Ruby Soho and Emi Sakura who didn’t work AEW at all in ‘20 and 29 times in ‘21.

They also had progress from Anna Jay, Jade Cargill, Red Velvet and Leyla Hirsch.

Thunder Rosa is actually signed as was Serena Deeb. Hopefully from now on the unsigned and inexperienced will be on YouTube.

Oh, I guess Jade will need either a healthy new batch of the unsigned and inexperienced or she will run through the “talent” faster than you can say “World vs TBS Title in under three months with Dr. Britt…”

There is a lot of charismatic unsigned women who deserve more chances out there. Jade vs Sholance Royal would get over HUGE in a Dynamite or Rampage crowd.

Whoever they bring in going forward it is _probably_ the wrong time to sign Tessa Blanchard. Everyone in this thread will probably agree on that at least.

Then again - some people just like to watch the world burn…


----------



## bdon

Wait…who used the line “black bitch”?


----------



## One Shed

Driver79 said:


> That's exactly what people on the left believe. Being black means thinking a certain way. If you don't think their way, then you aren't really black in their eyes. Joe Biden even had the gall to say it out loud.
> 
> Just as the transgender movement has appropriated the word "woman" to mean whatever they want it to mean, the progressive anti-racists have done the same with the world "black".
> 
> The problem is when you ask these same people what it means to be "black", they can't tell you.


Well, that is what the post-modern left believes. I would not go so far as to say it is what the "left" believes. Many on the left go along with the sentiment either due to not understanding the philosophy behind that line of thinking or they like the end result (Republicans = bad/racist/everythingphobic/etc) without realizing they will be on the canceling block down the road when something they believe is unallowable.



bdon said:


> Wait…who used the line “black bitch”?


Brandi. Lambert said he was a black belt and Brandi said she was a black bitch. Major cringe, but it is Brandi so that was a given.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> Brandi. Lambert said he was a black belt and Brandi said she was a black bitch. Major cringe, but it is Brandi so that was a given.


Oh goddamn.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Driver79 said:


> That's exactly what people on the left believe. Being black means thinking a certain way. If you don't think their way, then you aren't really black in their eyes. Joe Biden even had the gall to say it out loud.
> 
> Just as the transgender movement has appropriated the word "woman" to mean whatever they want it to mean, the progressive anti-racists have done the same with the world "black".
> 
> The problem is when you ask these same people what it means to be "black", they can't tell you.


sorry mate - i would hate to comment on something as screwy as the USA political system

i mean, i’m from a third world country and even i know your 2 party system is fucked up 

someone smarter than me will have to reply

edit) to be clear, i think both sides are fucked - you need at least 3 more parties. 1 centrist, one leftist and one far right - just get that shit out into the open


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, i can say this - from an outsider looking in, the USA is further along than you guys give yourself credit for - and it is ok to stop and smell the flowers of your progress. I mean, popular culture, fashion, music is primarily driven by minorities - like the whole pace of entertainment.
> 
> i guess ‘save the hard fights for true injustice’ is kinda what comes to mind
> 
> if everything is an outrage always, the actual bad stuff just kinda fades into everything else
> 
> while it always needs inspection and discussion, this whole thing‘s response feels out of balance to me, is all
> 
> like - if TK starts burying all the black talent or minorities and devotes no time to them or gives them stereotype gimmicks - like getting private party jucking and jivin’ - get out the pitchforks, i’ll be there alongside you
> 
> but this discussion, after champs like Riho, Shida, Nyla, Scorpio, Sammy, Lucha’s feels…. Eh… what is the best word
> 
> i dunno - we have a saying for it over here ’complaining with bread under each arm’
> 
> hope that makes sense, i’m trying to be honest, not condescending or anything to a sensitive situation


1. Can multiple conversations of varying degrees of importance not be had simultaneously?

2. Could it not be argued part of the outrage comes from folk that have no actual horse in the race getting inexplicably frustrated and butting in?

Like idk say the guild of women directors is asking for more chances for women directors. Is it not weird for a bunch of male's that aren't directors or planning to be to angrily jump out like 

"Boo shut up bitches, why do you think you deserve a shot at stuff"



Driver79 said:


> "I am confident I know what I am talking about, I just can't explain it to you..."
> 
> 
> You can't explain what it means to be black because being black is not a thing. It's a false concept that was planted in your head at a very young age by democrats and mass media. You were conditioned into believing that being black meant more than just having black skin. That it also meant thinking and acting a certain way.
> 
> Black people who choose not to go along with the program, like Candace Owens for example, have their black cards taken away.


Are you about to argue against shared cultural experiences existing? Because that's a wide hill to die on. Yeah of course people of the same grouping don't all experience the same shit, doesn't mean some things don't have major overlap. 

Like it'd be ridiculous to pretend something like Soul Train isn't a cultural icon TV wise just because 100% of black people didn't grow up watching it on Saturday morning

It'd be silly to pretend that there isn't a large percentage of blacks in the US that don't trust shit like the flu shot because of the Tuskegee Airmen Experiment. 

Like it comes off like you're trying to argue that culture only exists if it's 100% experienced and that's silly. 



bdon said:


> Well @RapShepard , there goes your argument that she didn’t get the opportunities to get better on TV.








Matches « Big Swole « Wrestlers Database « CAGEMATCH - The Internet Wrestling Database


Internet Wrestling Database



www.cagematch.net





Swole had

33 AEW Dark Matches

10 AEW Dynamite Matches


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> 1. Can multiple conversations of varying degrees of importance not be had simultaneously?
> 
> 2. Could it not be argued part of the outrage comes from folk that have no actual horse in the race getting inexplicably frustrated and butting in?
> 
> Like idk say the guild of women directors is asking for more chances for women directors. Is it not weird for a bunch of male's that aren't directors or planning to be to angrily jump out like
> 
> "Boo shut up bitches, why do you think you deserve a shot at stuff"


course it can - the level of discussion just feels out of kilter for the ‘problem’

ie> it feels hijacked by tribalism and enhanced / or TK shat the bed so bad by handling his reply wrong, that people are more up in arms about that than the real issue

which from where i’m standing, doesn‘t look a quarter as dire as the hyperbole i’ve read


----------



## Driver79

Two Sheds said:


> Well, that is what the post-modern left believes. I would not go so far as to say it is what the "left" believes. Many on the left go along with the sentiment either due to not understanding the philosophy behind that line of thinking* or they like the end result (Republicans = bad/racist/everythingphobic/etc) *without realizing they will be on the canceling block down the road when something they believe is unallowable.


This I believe has always been the crux of it. More than anything it has been drilled in their heads since a very young age that republicans are evil and racist, so in response liberals form their entire identities around not agreeing with republicans. They are allowed to believe whatever they want, even if it doesn't make sense, so long as they don't agree with the republicans.



RapShepard said:


> Like it'd be ridiculous to pretend something like Soul Train isn't a cultural icon TV wise just because 100% of black people didn't grow up watching it on Saturday morning
> 
> It'd be silly to pretend that there isn't a large percentage of blacks in the US that don't trust shit like the flu shot because of the Tuskegee Airmen Experiment.
> 
> Like it comes off like you're trying to argue that culture only exists if it's 100% experienced and that's silly.


So then being black means watching Soul Train? Being black means being suspicious of the government? I don't understand what you're saying here.

I will ask you again, please define for us what it means to be black.


----------



## RapShepard

Two Sheds said:


> I just learned Ken Burns did not actually live through the Civil War! What a charlatan! I also have a sneaking suspicion David McCullough did not actually know John Adams.
> 
> Just a little humor there, because I do get the point you are trying to make here, and there is a lot of truth to it. Having first hand experience in a culture and situation does give a certain insight to it. That is 100% true, but it is also possible to gain a lot of insight through research and studying. I am not trying to equate those things, but I think if someone is trying to make it a black and white (no pun intended) issue of "you did not personally live through this, therefore you cannot know anything about it and cannot have an opinion on it" is silly. That is basically 90% of Twitter. Mario Puzo was never in the mafia, but he wrote some compelling stories about it, etc.


That I think just comes from folk feeling voiceless and pushed to the side forever. Then with the platforms we have today were it's easier to get your voice heard and some pent up aggression is coming with some fuck you energy.


----------



## Gwi1890

Driver79 said:


> This I believe has always been the crux of it. More than anything it has been drilled in their heads since a very young age that republicans are evil and racist, so in response liberals form their entire identities around not agreeing with republicans. They are allowed to believe whatever they want, even if it doesn't make sense, so long as they don't agree with the republicans.
> 
> 
> 
> So then being black means watching Soul Train? Being black means being suspicious of the government? I don't understand what you're saying here.
> 
> I will ask you again, please define for us what it means to be black.


Im black but I live in the Uk in a rural area and work in agriculture, ( yes sound very white to a person in the US doesn’t it) and culturally Im totally different to a black person in the US, but they significant differences I have come across is always having to keep my receipt when coming out the store, people assuming I’m foreign, people assuming that I like rap music which I do but …. 🤣 , going on holiday with and putting sun lotion on and people laughing saying “ black people don’t get sun tan” , buying a new truck and turning up at a service station or gas station as you would say and having someone call the cops thinking I was in a stolen vehicle, that’s what being black is to an extent, but in terms of someone writing a promo for me personally Booker T writing one for me wouldn’t work, Jay Briscoe writing one for me would. And I would probably have a lot more in common with Brock Lesnar about hunting in than I would with Big E


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> So then being black means watching Soul Train? Being black means being suspicious of the government? I don't understand what you're saying here.
> 
> I will ask you again, please define for us what it means to be black.


So you are arguing there's no such thing as shared cultural experiences that contribute to cultural identities got you.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Just when you think they got it right one time, they manage to find a way to fuck that up too. Jade is the only legit athlete over there and they gave her these garbage stats. At least Thunder Rosa spoke up for her:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478096819532017670*


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> course it can - the level of discussion just feels out if kilter for the ‘problem’
> 
> ie> it feels hijacked by tribalism and enhanced / or TK shat the bed so bad by handling his reply wrong, that people are more up in arms about that than the real issue
> 
> which from where i’m standing, doesn‘t look a quarter as dire as the hyperbole i’ve read


Fans we're giving her heat before Tony shat the bed if I remember the timing correctly.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Just when you think they got it right one time, they manage to find a way to fuck that up too. Jade is the only legit athlete over there and they gave her these garbage stats. At least Thunder Rosa spoke up for her:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478096819532017670*


Wouldn’t Mark Henry be 99?

Jade is strong, but c’mon now - she’s no world strongest man


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Just when you think they got it right one time, they manage to find a way to fuck that up too. Jade is the only legit athlete over there and they gave her these garbage stats. At least Thunder Rosa spoke up for her:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478096819532017670*


Tbf in the limited matches I've seen of Jade on TV I wouldn't associate her with speed. Her strength is what stands out in kayfabe.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Wouldn’t Mark Henry be 99?
> 
> Jade is strong, but c’mon now - she’s no world strongest man


I've seen her move a semi with her butt cheeks


----------



## One Shed

Driver79 said:


> This I believe has always been the crux of it. More than anything it has been drilled in their heads since a very young age that republicans are evil and racist, so in response liberals form their entire identities around not agreeing with republicans. They are allowed to believe whatever they want, even if it doesn't make sense, so long as they don't agree with the republicans.


It is much, much deeper than that though. I know a lot of people on the left that do not buy into the current identity politics being pushed by some activists. Some are worried about speaking up because they will be called fascists/Nazis/etc if they disagree with anything being pushed, and some are happy to be silent and go along because they believe the end result is worth it even if they disagree with the details.

It has a lot less to do with Republicans than you might think too. The post-modern activists started their activities years ago in academia and claimed the university system in the US is literally a patriarchal, white supremacist, racist, misogynistic, dystopian wasteland where rape culture is rampant. Now, how many universities are controlled by Republicans? Maybe three maximum. Post-modernists believe everything is a power dynamic and that objective reality does not exist. So they just flatly state that reality is what they say it is and if you disagree with them, then you are helping prop up the obviously patriarchal, white supremacist, racist, misogynistic, (and now transphobic) system and must be removed from society. How many University presidents have you seen apologizing and kowtowing to groups of students? These University presidents and leaders are in almost all cases on the left, but they have power, so they must be oppressors. It took me a LONG time to actually understand how the post-modernists really view the world, but once you can do that, all their actions make sense, from their point of view. To them, people must be 100% actively working to dismantle the _obvious_ system of systemic oppression or they are defacto working to prop it up. There is no neutral. And if you are defined as actively working to prop up systemic oppression, then doing anything to stop you is OK, hence why violence is perfectly fine to use against anyone.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I've seen her move a semi with her butt cheeks


………………………….. link?


----------



## GothicBohemian

Shared experiences that have meaning beyond what those outside the group notice play a big role in defining who a person is.

Who you are - your likes and dislikes, your hobbies, profession, etc - when you were born, and where you're raised make up a good portion of your identity but there's also another component based on shared experiences that arise from other aspects like race, gender, health, wealth, age, and more. These experiences happen to almost everyone who shares that quality and it creates a bond, even with people you don't know.


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> That I think just comes from folk feeling voiceless and pushed to the side forever. Then with the platforms we have today were it's easier to get your voice heard and some pent up aggression is coming with some fuck you energy.


I understand that a lot of people feel like they have a voice for the first time via social media etc and there certainly is a lot of pent-up anger people want to get out. That is mostly good. The danger though is when every voice is given equal weight without taking into account evidence and expertise. When someone says "well that is my truth" or "that is my lived experience, no one can question it" well OK then as far as statements go, but that is not a way to organize a society. It starts to resemble a religion eventually where you have "truths" that cannot be questioned without the questioner being excommunicated (blasphemy laws). That is the slope we are currently going down. And I know some people will say "this is just wrestling dumbass" but they fail to see how this line of thinking is infecting all aspects of society.

Giving everyone a voice IS important, and long overdue in many areas, but no one is above criticism either. And no voice is more important than the lone dissenter.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan

RapShepard said:


> Matches « Big Swole « Wrestlers Database « CAGEMATCH - The Internet Wrestling Database
> 
> 
> Internet Wrestling Database
> 
> 
> 
> www.cagematch.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swole had
> 
> 33 AEW Dark Matches
> 
> 10 AEW Dynamite Matches


Well, I am legally blind with more emphasis on blind than any “legal” definition. I used Wrestlingdata for the totals. That is closer to what she was qualified enough for. If she is popular in the locker room I’d give her some short term contracts until she breaks through or flames out. 

Sorry about that. Just for my sanity I double checked and your numbers are the right ones, obviously. I also counted 3 PPVs this time around. Maybe besides a little blind I’m also becoming dyslexic.

Or people with my level of visual impairment shouldn’t type on an iPod.

Woo-boo! Monday is Dark Elevation.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ………………………….. link?


Sending



Two Sheds said:


> I understand that a lot of people feel like they have a voice for the first time via social media etc and there certainly is a lot of pent-up anger people want to get out. That is mostly good. The danger though is when every voice is given equal weight without taking into account evidence and expertise. When someone says "well that is my truth" or "that is my lived experience, no one can question it" well OK then as far as statements go, but that is not a way to organize a society. It starts to resemble a religion eventually where you have "truths" that cannot be questioned without the questioner being excommunicated (blasphemy laws). That is the slope we are currently going down. And I know some people will say "this is just wrestling dumbass" but they fail to see how this line of thinking is infecting all aspects of society.
> 
> Giving everyone a voice IS important, and long overdue in many areas, but no one is above criticism either. And no voice is more important than the lone dissenter.


True discussions has to be have and saying something can't be challenged is dangerous. But so is saying something can't be discussed because you don't believe it's important. 



Ultimo Duggan said:


> Well, I am legally blind with more emphasis on blind than any “legal” definition. I used Wrestlingdata for the totals. That is closer to what she was qualified enough for. If she is popular in the locker room I’d give her some short term contracts until she breaks through or flames out.
> 
> Sorry about that.


My grandma is legally blind so I feel for you.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Tbf in the limited matches I've seen of Jade on TV I wouldn't associate her with speed. Her strength is what stands out in kayfabe.


*She explodes with speed in bursts, like with her Pump Kick.*


----------



## The XL 2

I can't believe people are still arguing about this, lol. Outside of Daniel Bryan and CM Punk, none of these jabronis are worth shit, black or white. They're all plug and play undercarders who amount to nothing, draw no money and do nothing to increase AEWs bottom line. AEW basically has a decently established 800K-1M who will watch the product because the brand got over, and occasionally, Punk and Bryan can pop a number, and even that is starting to decline. None of these guys are overlooked, black, white, hispanic, etc. Most of these guys suck and draw no real interest. Both Vince McMahon and Tony Khan push who they happened to like because their is no real consequence to it, no one in this era is over, no one stands out, no one draws any real money.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Wouldn’t Mark Henry be 99?
> 
> Jade is strong, but c’mon now - she’s no world strongest man


*I'd say 95 realistically, since she's the strongest woman on the roster. My main issues are with her speed, endurance, and popularity. 

Popularity: 80
Speed: 85
Endurance: 85 (She won [and kipped up] on a bad leg last week ffs)*


----------



## The XL 2

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Just when you think they got it right one time, they manage to find a way to fuck that up too. Jade is the only legit athlete over there and they gave her these garbage stats. At least Thunder Rosa spoke up for her:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478096819532017670*


Lmao at Soho having 89 popularity and 81 strength. I get that its just a meaningless game, but who are they kidding? Soho is a no count in an era where wrestling has never been less popular, lmao at 89 popularity.


----------



## BlueEyedDevil

RapShepard said:


> I've seen her move a semi with her butt cheeks


I've seen Jade pop a truck tire between her buttcheeks and bend a tire iron that was inserted into her rectum.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I'd say 95 realistically, since she's the strongest woman on the roster. My main issues are with her speed, endurance, and popularity.
> 
> Popularity: 80
> Speed: 85
> Endurance: 85 (She won [and kipped up] on a bad leg last week ffs)*


tweet em’


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> So you are arguing there's no such thing as shared cultural experiences that contribute to cultural identities got you.


Culture and skin color are two entirely different things though.

Newsflash genius, black people aren't the only ones that watched Soul Train. Black people aren't the only ones that listen to rap music. Neither of those things define being black, nor do they require being black in order to fully appreciate.

Most black people that claim to identify with hip-hop did not grow up in any kind of street environment, yet still they appropriate the culture. The way they sag their jeans, their slang, their vernacular... it's all nothing more than learned behavior that was informed by music and entertainment. So spare me this notion that only black people have what it takes to deliver an "authentic" black experience when their own perception of that same experience was entirely shaped by show business.


----------



## biscotti

Fuck off you untalented bug eyed alien freak. I never enjoyed seeing Big Swole, not once, ever and it turns out she is a total cünt too In her case she only had a job because of being black and positive discrimination.


----------



## IronMan8

RapShepard said:


> The Australian man who wrote the novel was asked to write it from a Holocaust survivor and got a fuck ton of first hand accounts from holocaust survivors which would be the equivalent of having representation in the writing room.


You just contradicted yourself. You said you need to live it first-hand. That wasn't first-hand.


----------



## IronMan8

GothicBohemian said:


> Best not take racial stereotype issues to China. They will let you know exactly what they think. (So will Japan.)
> Mercedes sparks fury in China over ad with models with 'slanted eyes'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course a writer learns to see from various perspectives. You use JK Rowling as an example; she wrote what she knew at the time, which was how it felt to be on the lower rung. She began the HP books when she lived in poverty as a single mom trying to build a life within a system where she had as much power as a child. HP didn't become a phenomenon because she wrote a stunning portrayal of young boyhood, it grabbed young imaginations because she understood how kids feel in a world where adults make decisions for you and where the chance that something magical will happen to fix it all is a common dream.
> 
> The amount of work that goes on before even attempting to write a word when dealing with what you do not know is so far beyond the level of effort available to pro wrestling creative that there's no similarity at all. If I wanted an authentic story for, say, a Japanese wrestler I'd ask a Japanese wrestler or at least someone who has lived in Japan and knows the cultural intricacies. I'd get it wrong if I tried to do it myself since I've never lived in Japan and know nothing about how people there talk to each other.
> 
> -----------
> 
> I love that AEW lets talent pitch their own ideas and try those ideas out in front of crowds, but I've also noticed most of the complex stories and prioritized screen time goes to people who are all kind of similar and trying to tell pretty similar stories.
> 
> Aside from Malakai, and to a lesser extent Miro, who has a really interesting story right now that amounts to more than _I'm gonna go in the ring and beat this person and I'll do it in a way that makes the crowd chant_ or _Grr, I don't like you and you dress funny_? Not everyone's a Malakai or a Miro. Most wrestlers aren't. Just like few wrestlers have MJF's ability to feed off a crowd and keep lengthy monologues going in full heel mode, few are able to dream up really original booking ideas for themselves. Being an active participant in the creative process and having the ability to veto ideas is important but so is having someone whose strength is creativity to toss around ideas with.
> 
> Other than the Lucha Bros big ppv entrance, how often do we see anything culturally relevant to the wrestlers? Tay and Thunder Rosa have flags sometimes. I guess that counts, sort of. Most of the time it all seems very middle America with a wrestling flavour. I am NOT asking for stereotypes - I've already been clear about my hate for Dancin' Natives - I'm asking for creative authenticity and not just for minorities. For everyone. I think a bit of creative help, not scripting or taking over the creative side, just guidance, would allow wrestlers to build unique stories for themselves and improve characters they've worked on during their developmental and indie years. And yes, I do think diversity is needed in creative sessions. It's really hard to tell someone else's story without a lot of research, interviews, and breaking down barriers to build trust.
> 
> AEW has creative freedom, yet it all still looks the same. The wrestlers who best fit the existing tropes get the most screen time. I don't think for a second that this is intentional, it's more a byproduct of not developing the creative side in talent that maybe needs more help in that aspect than they do in the ring.
> 
> EDIT: When I say it looks the same, I'm talking about the creative side, not the in-ring action which is very diverse in some ways and yet noticeably repetitive in others.


Yeah, so do your research before writing, don't blindly write for characters of which you know little about.

Is that what Swole accused AEW of doing?


----------



## IronMan8

RapShepard said:


> Right so real effort was put in
> 
> 
> 
> @IronMan8 didn't think Swole was fair in saying that black folk should write black folk.
> 
> But there is a legit question on if there should be someone who's role is to help the less creative folk get ideas in. If agents for matches exist why not something for the character aspect.


Agents aren't writers, so not them. But this concept is something that I argued AEW should do back when they started.

The most successful formula in wrestling history was in the Attitude Era.

Vince Russo graduated with a journalism degree, had owned video stores, and then spent years getting to know the roster over magazine interviews. He was also an emotional, creative guy who eventually tapped into certain characters, mostly the real person.

Get a high EQ writer backstage for a couple of years and eventually that person might be an ideal writer to fill-in the gaps for talent who are less creative or prefer a script to memorise (from someone qualified who understands how they think). 

But it won't work unless they meet all of the above criteria, which most writers after Russo didn't.

It also wouldn't work if a black talent refused to work with an experienced white writer.

However, once you start hiring professional writers, you also run the risk of disrupting the natural creativity that is a major strength of AEW, so I'm not sure if there's a perfect solution.


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> Culture and skin color are two entirely different things though.
> 
> Newsflash genius, black people aren't the only ones that watched Soul Train. Black people aren't the only ones that listen to rap music. Neither of those things define being black, nor do they require being black in order to fully appreciate.
> 
> Most black people that claim to identify with hip-hop did not grow up in any kind of street environment, yet still they appropriate the culture. The way they sag their jeans, their slang, their vernacular... it's all nothing more than learned behavior that was informed by music and entertainment. So spare me this notion that only black people have what it takes to deliver an "authentic" black experience when their own perception of that same experience was entirely shaped by show business.


Imagine pretending Soul Train isn't apart of black American culture. The show that highly advertised black hair care products. Other races surely could've watched, but the demo certainly wasn't white America. Then to argue against art imitating life or pretending consumerism can't be apart of culture is wild. 

You're the type of guy that would argue shit like

"Watching The Super Bowl isn't apart of US culture because not everyone watches, you can be American and not watch the Superbowl".

Racial culture exists, just like regional, religious, or national culture. 




IronMan8 said:


> You just contradicted yourself. You said you need to live it first-hand. That wasn't first-hand.


Again this is me below



RapShepard said:


> *Depending on the story being told, it's not crazy at all to want somebody knowledgeable of the subject writing it. *


----------



## RapShepard

IronMan8 said:


> Agents aren't writers, so not them. But this concept is something that I argued AEW should do back when they started.
> 
> The most successful formula in wrestling history was in the Attitude Era.
> 
> Vince Russo graduated with a journalism degree, had owned video stores, and then spent years getting to know the roster over magazine interviews. He was also an emotional, creative guy who eventually tapped into certain characters, mostly the real person.
> 
> Get a high EQ writer backstage for a couple of years and eventually that person might be an ideal writer to fill-in the gaps for talent who are less creative or prefer a script to memorise (from someone qualified who understands how they think).
> 
> But it won't work unless they meet all of the above criteria, which most writers after Russo didn't.
> 
> It also wouldn't work if a black talent refused to work with an experienced white writer.
> 
> However, once you start hiring professional writers, you also run the risk of disrupting the natural creativity that is a major strength of AEW, so I'm not sure if there's a perfect solution.


I actually agree with you for the most part as someone who grew up on the AE. I'd also agree it wouldn't be fair to just not give a white writer a chance. But sticking with Russo maybe if there was like a Japanese person he could riff off of we get something better than "Choppy Choppy your pee pee" for Kaientai lol. Or hey maybe we still do, but at least on some corporate fuck shit they can claim to have tried.


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> Imagine pretending Soul Train isn't apart of black American culture. The show that highly advertised black hair care products. Other races surely could've watched, but the demo certainly wasn't white America. Then to argue against art imitating life or pretending consumerism can't be apart of culture is wild.
> 
> You're the type of guy that would argue shit like
> 
> "Watching The Super Bowl isn't apart of US culture because not everyone watches, you can be American and not watch the Superbowl".
> 
> Racial culture exists, just like regional, religious, or national culture.


It's the opposite actually. If anything I am arguing that Soul Train is no different than the Superbowl. They are both apart of american culture.

Soul Train isn't black culture any more than the Super Bowl is white culture.


----------



## Dr. Middy

The XL 2 said:


> I can't believe people are still arguing about this, lol. Outside of Daniel Bryan and CM Punk, none of these jabronis are worth shit, black or white. They're all plug and play undercarders who amount to nothing, draw no money and do nothing to increase AEWs bottom line. AEW basically has a decently established 800K-1M who will watch the product because the brand got over, and occasionally, Punk and Bryan can pop a number, and even that is starting to decline. None of these guys are overlooked, black, white, hispanic, etc. Most of these guys suck and draw no real interest. Both Vince McMahon and Tony Khan push who they happened to like because their is no real consequence to it, no one in this era is over, no one stands out, no one draws any real money.


I mean people are having proper discussion on various racial issues. 

Nobody really cares about you being a grump who thinks wrestling today is awful.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Driver79 said:


> It's the opposite actually. If anything I am arguing that Soul Train is no different than the Superbowl. They are both apart of american culture.
> 
> Soul Train isn't black culture any more than the Super Bowl is white culture.


I was curious so I looked, and this is pretty wrong factually. The whole show was traced back to youth dance programs in the 60s that mostly were made up of black dancers, and got it's initial popularity by being one of the only commercial shows at the time produced by black people for black people, while featuring a ton of black dominated music at the time. So it does have a real important imprint on black culture as a whole, whereas the Superbowl really is just for all football fans in general, and never has had any sort of racial component attached to it.


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> It's the opposite actually. If anything I am arguing that Soul Train is no different than the Superbowl. They are both apart of american culture.
> 
> Soul Train isn't black culture any more than the Super Bowl is white culture.


What you're arguing is a phony "we're all the same" argument. You and I both know subcultures and subgenres exist. Soul Train is an African American dance show that pretty much only plays and features black musicians playing black genres of music. To pretend that doesn't have a different place in culture than the biggest event in the country's biggest sport is ludicrous.


----------



## The XL 2

Dr. Middy said:


> I mean people are having proper discussion on various racial issues.
> 
> Nobody really cares about you being a grump who thinks wrestling today is awful.


No one draws any money. Who does and doesn't get pushed is meaningless.


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you know the stories gets rotated out for everybody
> 
> i know some guys don‘t like it - but i do
> 
> Bryan / Hangman also only got a small promo last week on 2 shows - same complaint?


Im complaining cause I like the story


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> What you're arguing is a phony "we're all the same" argument. You and I both know subcultures and subgenres exist. Soul Train is an African American dance show that pretty much only plays and features black musicians playing black genres of music. To pretend that doesn't have a different place in culture than the biggest event in the country's biggest sport is ludicrous.


Okay so then operating under that same logic, basketball was invented by white people and was played exclusively by white people for most of it's early history. Most of it's fans were also white.

Is basketball a "white" sport? Is basketball "white" culture?


----------



## One Shed

Driver79 said:


> Okay so then operating under that same logic, basketball was invented by white people and was played exclusively by white people for most of it's early history. Most of it's fans were also white.
> 
> Is basketball a "white" sport? Is basketball "white" culture?


It was. Then it changed as cultures tend to do.


----------



## Driver79

Two Sheds said:


> It was. Then it changed as cultures tend to do.


So non-whites appropriated white culture then is what you're saying?


----------



## Thomazbr

Driver79 said:


> It's the opposite actually. If anything I am arguing that Soul Train is no different than the Superbowl. They are both apart of american culture.
> 
> Soul Train isn't black culture any more than the Super Bowl is white culture.


I mean it can be both
Something can be part of Brazilian culture, and also be part of the brazilian northeasterner culture and also be part of the culture of living in the city of Recife (my city), down to people who live in a particular zone of that city.


----------



## Driver79

Thomazbr said:


> I mean it can be both
> Something can be part of Brazilian culture, and also be part of the brazilian northeasterner culture and also be part of the culture of living in the city of Recife (my city), down to people who live in a particular zone of that city.


Right, and pizza is a product of italian culture.

But I doubt anyone would ever have the gall to tell a black person that they could never truly understand the finer points of pizza, or that they were incapable of making an authentic pizza.

Making pizza doesn't require being italian, even though italians invented pizza.


----------



## Thomazbr

Driver79 said:


> Right, and pizza is a product of italian culture.
> 
> But I doubt anyone would ever have the gall to tell a black person that they could never truly understand the finer points of pizza, or that they were incapable of making an authentic pizza.
> 
> Making pizza doesn't require being italian, even though italians invented pizza.


Italians have a lot to say about American Italian cuisine tho. Or really any "italian" cuisine of any other country.


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> Okay so then operating under that same logic, basketball was invented by white people and was played exclusively by white people for most of it's early history. Most of it's fans were also white.
> 
> Is basketball a "white" sport? Is basketball "white" culture?


Originally yes basketball would've been white culture then shit changed. Shit can be cultural to or more culturally relevant to subgroups its just absurd. 

Despite all movies being movies, would you deny that certain traits eventually sets movies apart into subgenres? And then that within those subgenres certain traits will break movies into even more specific subgenres?



Driver79 said:


> So non-whites appropriated white culture then is what you're saying?


Yup, but turnabout is fair play


----------



## One Shed

Driver79 said:


> So non-whites appropriated white culture then is what you're saying?


Of course. It became a part of wider American culture.


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> Originally yes basketball would've been white culture then shit changed. Shit can be cultural to or more culturally relevant to subgroups its just absurd.
> 
> Despite all movies being movies, would you deny that certain traits eventually sets movies apart into subgenres? And then that within those subgenres certain traits will break movies into even more specific subgenres?
> 
> Yup, but turnabout is fair play


My point is that black culture is american culture now.

Segregation ended over 50 years ago. White and black people have been mingling for a long time. Entire generations have been raised on black art and black entertainment. We're all pretty much drawing from the same cultural well at this point.

So it's pretty insulting for some black wrestler to suggest that in order to fully understand and appreciate them, that they need another black person represent them in the creative process. Countless non-white performers throughout history have gotten over thanks to white writers, white bookers and white promoters.


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> My point is that black culture is american culture now.
> 
> Segregation ended over 50 years ago. White and black people have been mingling for a long time. Entire generations have been raised on black art and black entertainment. We're all pretty much drawing from the same cultural well at this point.
> 
> So it's pretty insulting for some black wrestler to suggest that in order to fully understand and appreciate them, that they need another black person represent them in the creative process. Countless non-white performers throughout history have gotten over thanks to white writers, white bookers and white promoters.


This corny "we're all just people man, we all bleed red" shit doesn't work when you have an honest conversation we have differences. Tossing out segregation ended 50 years ago, despite the fact racial and housing discrimination cases and red lining cases still go to court is some head in the sand shit. 

When it comes to specific cultural things it's not crazy if somebody of that culture would prefer to work with someone else of that culture for a better chance at authenticity telling the story. It doesn't mean somebody not of thag culture couldn't have done a good job. But


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dr. Middy said:


> I was curious so I looked, and this is pretty wrong factually. The whole show was traced back to youth dance programs in the 60s that mostly were made up of black dancers, and got it's initial popularity by being one of the only commercial shows at the time produced by black people for black people, while featuring a ton of black dominated music at the time. So it does have a real important imprint on black culture as a whole, whereas the Superbowl really is just for all football fans in general, and never has had any sort of racial component attached to it.


*It's easy to spot the disingenuous "All Lives Matter" bullshit. This guy isn't even trying to hide it.*


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> This corny "we're all just people man, we all bleed red" shit doesn't work when you have an honest conversation we have differences. Tossing out segregation ended 50 years ago, despite the fact racial and housing discrimination cases and red lining cases still go to court is some head in the sand shit.


Any black person with a qualifying credit score and a qualifying verifiable income can get a loan from any lender and purchase property anywhere in the united states. 

I know you would much rather believe the world is against you, but facts are a funny thing.


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> Any black person with a qualifying credit score and a qualifying verifiable income can get a loan from any lender and purchase property anywhere in the united states.
> 
> I know you would much rather believe the world is against you, but facts are a funny thing.











Bank of America to Pay $335 Million Settlement in Fair Lending Case


Bank of America has agreed to pay $335 million to resolve allegations that its Countrywide unit engaged in a widespread pattern of discrimination against qualified African-American and Hispanic borrowers.




www.foxnews.com





*Bank of America agreed to pay $335 million to resolve allegations that its Countrywide unit engaged in a widespread pattern of discrimination against qualified African-American and Hispanic borrowers on home loans.

According to the DOJ's complaint, Countrywide charged over 200,000 African-American and Hispanic borrowers higher fees and interest rates than non-Hispanic white borrowers with a similar credit profile. The complaint says that these borrowers were charged higher fees and rates because of their race or national origin rather than any other objective criteria.

"These institutions should make judgments based on applicants' creditworthiness, not on the color of their skin," said Attorney General Eric Holder. "With today's settlement, the federal government will ensure that the more than 200,000 African-American and Hispanic borrowers who were discriminated against by Countrywide will be entitled to compensation."

Charlotte, N.C.-based Bank of America Corp. bought the nation's largest subprime lender, Countrywide Financial Corp., in 2008.

Dan Frahm, a Bank of America spokesman, said in a statement that the bank does not practice lending based on race.

"We discontinued Countrywide products and practices that were not in keeping with our commitment and will continue to resolve and put behind us the remaining Countrywide issues," Frahm said.

The United States' complaint says that Countrywide was aware that the fees and interest rates that its loan officers were charging discriminated against African-American and Hispanic borrowers, but failed to impose meaningful limits or guidelines to stop it.

By steering borrowers into subprime loans from 2004 to 2007, the complaint alleges, Countrywide harmed those qualified African-American and Hispanic borrowers. Subprime loans generally carried costlier terms, such as prepayment penalties and significantly higher adjustable interest rates that increased suddenly after two or three years, making the payments unaffordable and leaving the borrowers at a much higher risk of foreclosure.

"Countrywide's actions contributed to the housing crisis, hurt entire communities, and denied families access to the American dream," said Thomas E. Perez, Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Divis


The settlement amount will be used to compensate victims of Countrywide's discriminatory mortgage loans from 2004 through 2007, when Countrywide originated millions of residential mortgage loans as the nation's largest single-family mortgage lenders.*










Justice Department and Office of the Comptroller of the Currency Announce Actions to Resolve Lending Discrimination Claims Against Cadence Bank


The Justice Department and the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) today announced coordinated actions to address allegations of lending discrimination by Cadence Bank N.A.




www.justice.gov







> The department’s Civil Rights Division and the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of Georgia announced an agreement to resolve allegations that Cadence Bank, which is headquartered in Atlanta, engaged in lending discrimination by “redlining” predominantly Black and Hispanic neighborhoods in the Houston, metro area. Under the department’s settlement, Cadence will invest over $5.5 million to increase credit opportunities for residents of those neighborhoods. “Redlining” is an illegal practice in which lenders avoid providing services to individuals living in communities of color because of the race, color or national origin of the people who live in those communities.
> 
> Additionally, Cadence’s prudential regulator, the OCC, announced today that it has assessed penalties against the bank in the amount of $3 million related to the violations alleged in the department’s complaint. The department opened its investigation after the OCC referred the matter.
> 
> The Justice Department’s settlement will resolve a lawsuit filed today in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Georgia. In its complaint, the department alleges that Cadence Bank violated the Fair Housing Act and the Equal Credit Opportunity Act, which prohibit financial institutions from discriminating on the basis of race, color or national origin in their mortgage lending services. Specifically, the complaint alleges that, from 2013 to 2017, Cadence engaged in unlawful redlining in the Houston area by avoiding predominantly Black and Hispanic neighborhoods because of the race, color and national origin of the people living in those neighborhoods. The department also alleges that Cadence’s branches were concentrated in majority-white neighborhoods, that the bank’s loan officers did not serve the credit needs of majority-Black and Hispanic neighborhoods and that the bank’s outreach and marketing avoided those neighborhoods.











U.S. Expands Investigation Into Banks That Discriminate in Lending


"Lending discrimination runs counter to fundamental promises of our economic system," Attorney General Merrick Garland said Friday.




www.newsweek.com







> The U.S. is expanding a cross-government investigation to crack down on redlining, a practice in which banks discriminate against certain racial minorities or neighborhoods by refusing loans, the Associated Press reported.
> 
> The Justice Department announced the initiative Friday, marking the first major extension in redlining probes since the Obama administration.
> 
> Though legislation has been put in place to curb the practice, redlining and its long-term consequences remain present and problematic as U.S. Black families typically see a fraction of the net worth of a typical white household. Meanwhile, homes in neighborhoods that were redlined in the past are still worth less today than homes in areas that were never targeted with lending discrimination, the AP reporte


----------



## IronMan8

RapShepard said:


> I actually agree with you for the most part as someone who grew up on the AE. I'd also agree it wouldn't be fair to just not give a white writer a chance. But sticking with Russo maybe if there was like a Japanese person he could riff off of we get something better than "Choppy Choppy your pee pee" for Kaientai lol. Or hey maybe we still do, but at least on some corporate fuck shit they can claim to have tried.


The assumption I'm making is a professional writer will always research the material required to accurately perform their job.

Everything you're saying only applies if an incompetent writer fails to do the above.

Therefore, I guess you'd be right to say black writers are required for black talent if the writers involved are incompetent.

Wrestling can have a lower threshold for competence at times, but I just wouldn't entertain the idea of hiring incompetent writers who can only write based on first-hand experience.

The purpose of my argument was to debunk the idea that black talent require black writers, and I think we're both in agreement about that as long as the writer does their research.


----------



## IronMan8

RapShepard said:


> Bank of America to Pay $335 Million Settlement in Fair Lending Case
> 
> 
> Bank of America has agreed to pay $335 million to resolve allegations that its Countrywide unit engaged in a widespread pattern of discrimination against qualified African-American and Hispanic borrowers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Bank of America agreed to pay $335 million to resolve allegations that its Countrywide unit engaged in a widespread pattern of discrimination against qualified African-American and Hispanic borrowers on home loans.
> 
> According to the DOJ's complaint, Countrywide charged over 200,000 African-American and Hispanic borrowers higher fees and interest rates than non-Hispanic white borrowers with a similar credit profile. The complaint says that these borrowers were charged higher fees and rates because of their race or national origin rather than any other objective criteria.
> 
> "These institutions should make judgments based on applicants' creditworthiness, not on the color of their skin," said Attorney General Eric Holder. "With today's settlement, the federal government will ensure that the more than 200,000 African-American and Hispanic borrowers who were discriminated against by Countrywide will be entitled to compensation."
> 
> Charlotte, N.C.-based Bank of America Corp. bought the nation's largest subprime lender, Countrywide Financial Corp., in 2008.
> 
> Dan Frahm, a Bank of America spokesman, said in a statement that the bank does not practice lending based on race.
> 
> "We discontinued Countrywide products and practices that were not in keeping with our commitment and will continue to resolve and put behind us the remaining Countrywide issues," Frahm said.
> 
> The United States' complaint says that Countrywide was aware that the fees and interest rates that its loan officers were charging discriminated against African-American and Hispanic borrowers, but failed to impose meaningful limits or guidelines to stop it.
> 
> By steering borrowers into subprime loans from 2004 to 2007, the complaint alleges, Countrywide harmed those qualified African-American and Hispanic borrowers. Subprime loans generally carried costlier terms, such as prepayment penalties and significantly higher adjustable interest rates that increased suddenly after two or three years, making the payments unaffordable and leaving the borrowers at a much higher risk of foreclosure.
> 
> "Countrywide's actions contributed to the housing crisis, hurt entire communities, and denied families access to the American dream," said Thomas E. Perez, Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Divis
> 
> 
> The settlement amount will be used to compensate victims of Countrywide's discriminatory mortgage loans from 2004 through 2007, when Countrywide originated millions of residential mortgage loans as the nation's largest single-family mortgage lenders.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justice Department and Office of the Comptroller of the Currency Announce Actions to Resolve Lending Discrimination Claims Against Cadence Bank
> 
> 
> The Justice Department and the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) today announced coordinated actions to address allegations of lending discrimination by Cadence Bank N.A.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.justice.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Expands Investigation Into Banks That Discriminate in Lending
> 
> 
> "Lending discrimination runs counter to fundamental promises of our economic system," Attorney General Merrick Garland said Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com


To be fair, for perspective, this is evidence of a minor problem for a small number of people on the fringes from 20 years ago, but that's all.

Countrywide were also bought out before CM Punk had even won MITB yet, so the localised problem is not an ongoing problem and hasn't been a problem since CM Punk became a problem for Vince McMahon, which is a far more interesting problem today that persists even today thanks to the platform AEW has provided Punk.

I can't wait for Punk vs MJF...

What was the topic again?


----------



## RapShepard

IronMan8 said:


> The assumption I'm making is a professional writer will always research the material required to accurately perform their job.
> 
> Everything you're saying only applies if an incompetent writer fails to do the above.
> 
> Therefore, I guess you'd be right to say black writers are required for black talent if the writers involved are incompetent.
> 
> Wrestling can have a lower threshold for competence at times, but I just wouldn't entertain the idea of hiring incompetent writers who can only write based on first-hand experience.
> 
> The purpose of my argument was to debunk the idea that black talent require black writers, and I think we're both in agreement about that as long as the writer does their research.


See because it's business by the time it reaches me I don't expect that same care because money is king lol. Like on Swole's representation point as somebody who likes comedy and rap, I always think of how rap jokes are typically outdated in comedies. 

Like something like Scary Movie 3 making fun of rap works because it's topical in mocking the battles in 8 Mile that came out the year before. But like rap jokes in Space Jam 2 don't work because the dab was last relevant Rollins had just broke At back and Porkie doing Notorious PIG puns is 24 years late. 

Hell even tonight on Raw if RkBro was going to riff on them teaming with Migos, instead of generic chains and old biggie references. why not send Riddle out with colored dreads and a face tattoo. Somebody in the room up to date and knowledgeable could pitch that


----------



## RapShepard

IronMan8 said:


> To be fair, for perspective, this is evidence of a minor problem for a small number of people on the fringes from 20 years ago, but that's all.
> 
> Countrywide were also bought out before CM Punk had even won MITB yet, so the localised problem is not an ongoing problem and hasn't been a problem since CM Punk became a problem for Vince McMahon, which is a far more interesting problem today that persists thanks for the platform AEW has provided Punk.
> 
> I can't wait for Punk vs MJF...
> 
> What was the topic again?


The last 2 links are from the last 3 years. I just found it humourous that for a country that ended all racial issues 50 years ago even Fox News can show that's bull shit.


----------



## A PG Attitude

I'm not sure where this issue of diversity has come from.

On AEW's current roster from their website I counted 33% of their roster is non-caucasian and of the 23 people that have been champion 9 of them have been non-caucasian. And on the women's side they didn't have a white American champion until 2 years into the show with Britt.


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


> Originally yes basketball would've been white culture then shit changed. Shit can be cultural to or more culturally relevant to subgroups its just absurd.
> 
> Despite all movies being movies, would you deny that certain traits eventually sets movies apart into subgenres? And then that within those subgenres certain traits will break movies into even more specific subgenres?
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, but turnabout is fair play [emoji2379][emoji23]


To your point, basketball as a sport isn't itself part of anyone's culture. The different ways it is embraced and how it evolves is. No one is going to look at 1960s basketball and say that was for the modern black person, but different aspects of black culture were added into basketball over time and it began to translate to that demographic. A good example of this is the divide between the NBA viewers and college basketball. While the NBA's viewership has a large black audience, college basketball is quite the opposite. Even though they are the same sport, the style of play and presentations resonate with different people. Also a majority of the athletes in college basketball are black. So there is black representation in number, but the college game doesn't resonate with that fanbase because it still hangs on to very old school traditions that skew towards a white audience. This is why is fair to say that it isn't about how many people are represented, but how they are presented.

With all that said, that doesn't mean AEW doesn't value their black talent, but it does mean that if they want to diversify their audience then they will have to listen to voices that understand those demographics. Swole may not have been the best person for that because she might (emphasizing might) have had other issues with her personal booking and she admitted to not being very creative. Someone like Shawn Dean, Hobbs, Mark Henry, Lio Rush or an outsider like Shane Strickland might have new ways to look at things and also might be better at the creative side of things. Since they have that creativity, they are more likely to find their way on TV and present something new to the audience.


----------



## Driver79

@RapShepard you have taken a lot of stories and a lot of incidents out of context. I have worked adjacently to finance and lending for 15 years, there are a million different ways someone could twist the data to have it mean whatever they want it to mean.

I am telling you this without hesitation. If you are a black, and you have verifiable income, and you have a high enough credit score... there isn't a mortgage bank in the world that won't want to do business with you. And you are not going to get a higher interest rate on your loan just because the underwriter happens to be a secret klansman. They don't want you applying for another loan at another bank.

Does this make sense to you?


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> @RapShepard you have taken a lot of stories and a lot of incidents out of context. I have worked adjacently to finance and lending for 15 years, there are a million different ways someone could twist the data to have it mean whatever they want it to mean.
> 
> I am telling you this without hesitation. If you are a black, and you have verifiable income, and you have a high enough credit score... there isn't a mortgage bank in the world that won't want to do business with you. And you are not going to get a higher interest rate on your loan just because the underwriter happens to be a secret klansman. They don't want you applying for another loan at another bank.
> 
> Does this make sense to you?


 unfurl="true"]https://www.foxnews....y-335-million-settlement-in-fair-lending-case

*Bank of America agreed to pay $335 million to resolve allegations that its Countrywide unit engaged in a widespread pattern of discrimination against qualified African-American and Hispanic borrowers on home loans.

According to the DOJ's complaint, Countrywide charged over 200,000 African-American and Hispanic borrowers higher fees and interest rates than non-Hispanic white borrowers with a similar credit profile. The complaint says that these borrowers were charged higher fees and rates because of their race or national origin rather than any other objective criteria.

"These institutions should make judgments based on applicants' creditworthiness, not on the color of their skin," said Attorney General Eric Holder. "With today's settlement, the federal government will ensure that the more than 200,000 African-American and Hispanic borrowers who were discriminated against by Countrywide will be entitled to compensation."

Charlotte, N.C.-based Bank of America Corp. bought the nation's largest subprime lender, Countrywide Financial Corp., in 2008.

Dan Frahm, a Bank of America spokesman, said in a statement that the bank does not practice lending based on race.

"We discontinued Countrywide products and practices that were not in keeping with our commitment and will continue to resolve and put behind us the remaining Countrywide issues," Frahm said.

The United States' complaint says that Countrywide was aware that the fees and interest rates that its loan officers were charging discriminated against African-American and Hispanic borrowers, but failed to impose meaningful limits or guidelines to stop it.

By steering borrowers into subprime loans from 2004 to 2007, the complaint alleges, Countrywide harmed those qualified African-American and Hispanic borrowers. Subprime loans generally carried costlier terms, such as prepayment penalties and significantly higher adjustable interest rates that increased suddenly after two or three years, making the payments unaffordable and leaving the borrowers at a much higher risk of foreclosure.

"Countrywide's actions contributed to the housing crisis, hurt entire communities, and denied families access to the American dream," said Thomas E. Perez, Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Divis


The settlement amount will be used to compensate victims of Countrywide's discriminatory mortgage loans from 2004 through 2007, when Countrywide originated millions of residential mortgage loans as the nation's largest single-family mortgage lenders.*










Justice Department and Office of the Comptroller of the Currency Announce Actions to Resolve Lending Discrimination Claims Against Cadence Bank


The Justice Department and the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) today announced coordinated actions to address allegations of lending discrimination by Cadence Bank N.A.




www.justice.gov







> The department’s Civil Rights Division and the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of Georgia announced an agreement to resolve allegations that Cadence Bank, which is headquartered in Atlanta, engaged in lending discrimination by “redlining” predominantly Black and Hispanic neighborhoods in the Houston, metro area. Under the department’s settlement, Cadence will invest over $5.5 million to increase credit opportunities for residents of those neighborhoods. “Redlining” is an illegal practice in which lenders avoid providing services to individuals living in communities of color because of the race, color or national origin of the people who live in those communities.
> 
> Additionally, Cadence’s prudential regulator, the OCC, announced today that it has assessed penalties against the bank in the amount of $3 million related to the violations alleged in the department’s complaint. The department opened its investigation after the OCC referred the matter.
> 
> The Justice Department’s settlement will resolve a lawsuit filed today in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Georgia. In its complaint, the department alleges that Cadence Bank violated the Fair Housing Act and the Equal Credit Opportunity Act, which prohibit financial institutions from discriminating on the basis of race, color or national origin in their mortgage lending services. Specifically, the complaint alleges that, from 2013 to 2017, Cadence engaged in unlawful redlining in the Houston area by avoiding predominantly Black and Hispanic neighborhoods because of the race, color and national origin of the people living in those neighborhoods. The department also alleges that Cadence’s branches were concentrated in majority-white neighborhoods, that the bank’s loan officers did not serve the credit needs of majority-Black and Hispanic neighborhoods and that the bank’s outreach and marketing avoided those neighborhoods.











U.S. Expands Investigation Into Banks That Discriminate in Lending


"Lending discrimination runs counter to fundamental promises of our economic system," Attorney General Merrick Garland said Friday.




www.newsweek.com







> The U.S. is expanding a cross-government investigation to crack down on redlining, a practice in which banks discriminate against certain racial minorities or neighborhoods by refusing loans, the Associated Press reported.
> 
> The Justice Department announced the initiative Friday, marking the first major extension in redlining probes since the Obama administration.
> 
> Though legislation has been put in place to curb the practice, redlining and its long-term consequences remain present and problematic as U.S. Black families typically see a fraction of the net worth of a typical white household. Meanwhile, homes in neighborhoods that were redlined in the past are still worth less today than homes in areas that were never targeted with lending discrimination, the AP reporte


----------



## Driver79

@RapShepard do you even understand what those banks were being accused of? Are you suggesting that anytime someone pays an out of court settlement it's a conviction of guilt?

I am asking you a very simple question, do you honestly believe that a mortgage bank would deny you a home loan because you were black? If that is the case then how do we have so many millions of black homeowners?


----------



## Ger

A PG Attitude said:


> I'm not sure where this *issue of diversity* has come from.
> 
> On AEW's current roster from their website I counted 33% of their roster is non-caucasian and of the 23 people that have been champion 9 of them have been non-caucasian. And on the women's side they didn't have a white American champion until 2 years into the show with Britt.


Not sure what these numbers shall tell us. Also diversity is more than not having 100% caucasian employees. I hope it is not necessary to explain that. That *issue of diversity comes from all the stuff AEW told* the people in the very beginning. I remember hearing the word "inclusive" pretty often.
Dustin Thomas was on AEW Double or Nothing, but afterwards he just had three matches on GCW and was not seen in AEW again.


----------



## Driver79

Prized Fighter said:


> To your point, basketball as a sport isn't itself part of anyone's culture. The different ways it is embraced and how it evolves is. No one is going to look at 1960s basketball and say that was for the modern black person, but different aspects of black culture were added into basketball over time and it began to translate to that demographic.


I agree, and there is of course nothing wrong with this.

But when white people are on the other side of this, they are accused of evil and racist cultural appropriation.


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> @RapShepard do you even understand what those banks were being accused of? Are you suggesting that anytime someone pays an out of court settlement it's a conviction of guilt?
> 
> I am asking you a very simple question, do you honestly believe that a mortgage bank would deny you a home loan because you were black? If that is the case then how do we have so many millions of black homeowners?











Bank of America to Pay $335 Million Settlement in Fair Lending Case


Bank of America has agreed to pay $335 million to resolve allegations that its Countrywide unit engaged in a widespread pattern of discrimination against qualified African-American and Hispanic borrowers.




www.foxnews.com







> Bank of America agreed to pay $335 million to resolve allegations that its Countrywide unit engaged in a widespread pattern of discrimination against qualified African-American and Hispanic borrowers on home loans.
> 
> According to the DOJ's complaint, Countrywide charged over 200,000 African-American and Hispanic borrowers higher fees and interest rates than non-Hispanic white borrowers with a similar credit profile. The complaint says that these borrowers were charged higher fees and rates because of their race or national origin rather than any other objective criteria.
> 
> "These institutions should make judgments based on applicants' creditworthiness, not on the color of their skin," said Attorney General Eric Holder. "With today's settlement, the federal government will ensure that the more than 200,000 African-American and Hispanic borrowers who were discriminated against by Countrywide will be entitled to compensation."
> 
> Charlotte, N.C.-based Bank of America Corp. bought the nation's largest subprime lender, Countrywide Financial Corp., in 2008.
> 
> Dan Frahm, a Bank of America spokesman, said in a statement that the bank does not practice lending based on race.
> 
> "We discontinued Countrywide products and practices that were not in keeping with our commitment and will continue to resolve and put behind us the remaining Countrywide issues," Frahm said.
> 
> The United States' complaint says that Countrywide was aware that the fees and interest rates that its loan officers were charging discriminated against African-American and Hispanic borrowers, but failed to impose meaningful limits or guidelines to stop it.
> 
> By steering borrowers into subprime loans from 2004 to 2007, the complaint alleges, Countrywide harmed those qualified African-American and Hispanic borrowers. Subprime loans generally carried costlier terms, such as prepayment penalties and significantly higher adjustable interest rates that increased suddenly after two or three years, making the payments unaffordable and leaving the borrowers at a much higher risk of foreclosure.
> 
> "Countrywide's actions contributed to the housing crisis, hurt entire communities, and denied families access to the American dream," said Thomas E. Perez, Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Divis
> 
> 
> The settlement amount will be used to compensate victims of Countrywide's discriminatory mortgage loans from 2004 through 2007, when Countrywide originated millions of residential mortgage loans as the nation's largest single-family mortgage lenders.











Justice Department and Office of the Comptroller of the Currency Announce Actions to Resolve Lending Discrimination Claims Against Cadence Bank


The Justice Department and the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) today announced coordinated actions to address allegations of lending discrimination by Cadence Bank N.A.




www.justice.gov





*The department’s Civil Rights Division and the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of Georgia announced an agreement to resolve allegations that Cadence Bank, which is headquartered in Atlanta, engaged in lending discrimination by “redlining” predominantly Black and Hispanic neighborhoods in the Houston, metro area. Under the department’s settlement, Cadence will invest over $5.5 million to increase credit opportunities for residents of those neighborhoods. “Redlining” is an illegal practice in which lenders avoid providing services to individuals living in communities of color because of the race, color or national origin of the people who live in those communities.

Additionally, Cadence’s prudential regulator, the OCC, announced today that it has assessed penalties against the bank in the amount of $3 million related to the violations alleged in the department’s complaint. The department opened its investigation after the OCC referred the matter.

The Justice Department’s settlement will resolve a lawsuit filed today in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Georgia. In its complaint, the department alleges that Cadence Bank violated the Fair Housing Act and the Equal Credit Opportunity Act, which prohibit financial institutions from discriminating on the basis of race, color or national origin in their mortgage lending services. Specifically, the complaint alleges that, from 2013 to 2017, Cadence engaged in unlawful redlining in the Houston area by avoiding predominantly Black and Hispanic neighborhoods because of the race, color and national origin of the people living in those neighborhoods. The department also alleges that Cadence’s branches were concentrated in majority-white neighborhoods, that the bank’s loan officers did not serve the credit needs of majority-Black and Hispanic neighborhoods and that the bank’s outreach and marketing avoided those neighborhoods.*










U.S. Expands Investigation Into Banks That Discriminate in Lending


"Lending discrimination runs counter to fundamental promises of our economic system," Attorney General Merrick Garland said Friday.




www.newsweek.com





* The U.S. is expanding a cross-government investigation to crack down on redlining, a practice in which banks discriminate against certain racial minorities or neighborhoods by refusing loans, the Associated Press reported. 

The Justice Department announced the initiative Friday, marking the first major extension in redlining probes since the Obama administration.

Though legislation has been put in place to curb the practice, redlining and its long-term consequences remain present and problematic as U.S. Black families typically see a fraction of the net worth of a typical white household. Meanwhile, homes in neighborhoods that were redlined in the past are still worth less today than homes in areas that were never targeted with lending discrimination, the AP reporte*


----------



## Driver79

@RapShepard my apologies, it's obvious you don't want to go forward. What can I say, enjoy living in your fantasy. 

Until next time I suppose.


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> @RapShepard my apologies, it's obvious you don't want to go forward. What can I say, enjoy living in your fantasy.
> 
> Until next time I suppose.


This is you below



Driver79 said:


> *Any black person with a qualifying credit score and a qualifying verifiable income can get a loan from any lender and purchase property anywhere in the united states. *
> 
> I know you would much rather believe the world is against you, but facts are a funny thing.


Idk this is just some bank getting in trouble for lending discrimination and you totally ignoring it, because that'd mean admitting that racism, discrimination, and just bull shit in general does occur. 

Now of course this bank getting in trouble doesn't mean all do the same or to never try. But it should be okay to admit there are still fucked up people and businesses with fucked up practices. 










Justice Department and Office of the Comptroller of the Currency Announce Actions to Resolve Lending Discrimination Claims Against Cadence Bank


The Justice Department and the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) today announced coordinated actions to address allegations of lending discrimination by Cadence Bank N.A.




www.justice.gov







> *The department’s Civil Rights Division and the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of Georgia announced an agreement to resolve allegations that Cadence Bank, which is headquartered in Atlanta, engaged in lending discrimination by “redlining” predominantly Black and Hispanic neighborhoods in the Houston, metro area. Under the department’s settlement, Cadence will invest over $5.5 million to increase credit opportunities for residents of those neighborhoods. “Redlining” is an illegal practice in which lenders avoid providing services to individuals living in communities of color because of the race, color or national origin of the people who live in those communities.
> 
> Additionally, Cadence’s prudential regulator, the OCC, announced today that it has assessed penalties against the bank in the amount of $3 million related to the violations alleged in the department’s complaint. The department opened its investigation after the OCC referred the matter.
> 
> The Justice Department’s settlement will resolve a lawsuit filed today in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Georgia. In its complaint, the department alleges that Cadence Bank violated the Fair Housing Act and the Equal Credit Opportunity Act, which prohibit financial institutions from discriminating on the basis of race, color or national origin in their mortgage lending services. Specifically, the complaint alleges that, from 2013 to 2017, Cadence engaged in unlawful redlining in the Houston area by avoiding predominantly Black and Hispanic neighborhoods because of the race, color and national origin of the people living in those neighborhoods. The department also alleges that Cadence’s branches were concentrated in majority-white neighborhoods, that the bank’s loan officers did not serve the credit needs of majority-Black and Hispanic neighborhoods and that the bank’s outreach and marketing avoided those neighborhoods.*











U.S. Expands Investigation Into Banks That Discriminate in Lending


"Lending discrimination runs counter to fundamental promises of our economic system," Attorney General Merrick Garland said Friday.




www.newsweek.com







> The U.S. is expanding a cross-government investigation to crack down on redlining, a practice in which banks discriminate against certain racial minorities or neighborhoods by refusing loans, the Associated Press reported.
> 
> The Justice Department announced the initiative Friday, marking the first major extension in redlining probes since the Obama administration.
> 
> Though legislation has been put in place to curb the practice, redlining and its long-term consequences remain present and problematic as U.S. Black families typically see a fraction of the net worth of a typical white household. Meanwhile, homes in neighborhoods that were redlined in the past are still worth less today than homes in areas that were never targeted with lending discrimination, the AP reporte


----------



## NathanMayberry

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478813536218320897

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NathanMayberry

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478809213828694017

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NathanMayberry

If not being good enough is the reason Tiny made that comment then I’m looking forward to hearing what he has to say about those three. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> Idk this is just some bank getting in trouble for lending discrimination and you totally ignoring it, because that'd mean admitting that racism, discrimination, and just bull shit in general does occur.
> 
> Now of course this bank getting in trouble doesn't mean all do the same or to never try. But it should be okay to admit there are still fucked up people and businesses with fucked up practices.


A bank getting in trouble for doing a thing is not irrefutable proof that racism plagues the mortgage industry. These are not mainstream practices and it's not something most people need to worry about. Whatever scam that was happening there was happening to white people too. Yes, congratulations, you have realized that there are fucked up practices... welcome to the real world.

There are 40 million black people in the US but if statistics repeat themselves then that means about 14 unarmed black people are going to be killed by police this upcoming year. Can you tell me what we have to gain as a society by hyper focusing on these insanely rare incidents? Do you honestly leave your house everyday in fear that you are going to be killed by a police officer???

Again, yes, these things are sad when they happen... but wouldn't you say 14 out of 40 million is a pretty damn good indication that those kinds of incidents are NOT normal????? That MAYBE we don't need to turn each one into a national story???


----------



## ripcitydisciple

So did Swole congratulate Jade being first 
TBS Champion or nah?


----------



## IronMan8

Congrats Jade, that was a great moment with her family at the end!

Tony clearly planned the tournament around her from the beginning, which you can see by how he protected her by carefully booking her against his best woman workers, and letting her cut promos branding her TBS title as "That Bitch Show" from the very beginning.



RapShepard said:


> Idk this is just some bank getting in trouble for lending discrimination and you totally ignoring it, because that'd mean admitting that racism, discrimination, and just bull shit in general does occur.


The source you cited said black people were given equal access to loans in all neighbourhoods, including the one in question.

The accusation is only against all the people in that neighbourhood who _didn't_ qualify for a normal loan and needed a "special loan" in a high risk category. We're talking about anyone on the fringes of society, not the general population. This included whites, equally. 

If you have a bad credit score and go walking into a bank asking to borrow money, then you're always going to face some form of resistance no matter who you are. I say this respectfully, but do you have any evidence at all to suggest a white person can get a loan but the black person living next door can't?


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> A bank getting in trouble for doing a thing is not irrefutable proof that racism plagues the mortgage industry. These are not mainstream practices and it's not something most people need to worry about. Whatever scam that was happening there was happening to white people too. Yes, congratulations, you have realized that there are fucked up practices... welcome to the real world.
> 
> There are 40 million black people in the US but if statistics repeat themselves then that means about 14 unarmed black people are going to be killed by police this upcoming year. Can you tell me what we have to gain as a society by hyper focusing on these insanely rare incidents? Do you honestly leave your house everyday in fear that you are going to be killed by a police officer???
> 
> Again, yes, these things are sad when they happen... but wouldn't you say 14 out of 40 million is a pretty damn good indication that those kinds of incidents are NOT normal????? That MAYBE we don't need to turn each one into a national story???





Driver79 said:


> *Any black person with a qualifying credit score and a qualifying verifiable income can get a loan from any lender and purchase property anywhere in the united states. *
> 
> I know you would much rather believe the world is against you, but facts are a funny thing.



This is you above don't switch up now. You said that everything was perfect that there was nobody doing anything wrong


----------



## RapShepard

IronMan8 said:


> Congrats Jade, that was a great moment with her family at the end!
> 
> Tony clearly planned the tournament around her from the beginning, which you can see by how he protected her by carefully booking her against his best woman workers, and letting her cut promos branding her TBS title as "That Bitch Show" from the very beginning.
> 
> 
> 
> The source you cited said black people were given equal access to loans in all neighbourhoods, including the one in question.
> 
> The accusation is only against all the people in that neighbourhood who _didn't_ qualify for a normal loan and needed a "special loan" in a high risk category. We're talking about anyone on the fringes of society, not the general population. This included whites, equally.
> 
> If you have a bad credit score and go walking into a bank asking to borrow money, then you're always going to face some form of resistance no matter who you are. I say this respectfully, but do you have any evidence at all to suggest a white person can get a loan but the black person living next door can't?


Imagine eating so much dick that some how you come to the conclusion that the fucking us government who is with all the shits is wrong for looking into lending discrimination










Justice Department and Office of the Comptroller of the Currency Announce Actions to Resolve Lending Discrimination Claims Against Cadence Bank


The Justice Department and the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) today announced coordinated actions to address allegations of lending discrimination by Cadence Bank N.A.




www.justice.gov







> *The department’s Civil Rights Division and the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of Georgia announced an agreement to resolve allegations that Cadence Bank, which is headquartered in Atlanta, engaged in lending discrimination by “redlining” predominantly Black and Hispanic neighborhoods in the Houston, metro area. Under the department’s settlement, Cadence will invest over $5.5 million to increase credit opportunities for residents of those neighborhoods. “Redlining” is an illegal practice in which lenders avoid providing services to individuals living in communities of color because of the race, color or national origin of the people who live in those communities.
> 
> Additionally, Cadence’s prudential regulator, the OCC, announced today that it has assessed penalties against the bank in the amount of $3 million related to the violations alleged in the department’s complaint. The department opened its investigation after the OCC referred the matter.
> 
> The Justice Department’s settlement will resolve a lawsuit filed today in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Georgia. In its complaint, the department alleges that Cadence Bank violated the Fair Housing Act and the Equal Credit Opportunity Act, which prohibit financial institutions from discriminating on the basis of race, color or national origin in their mortgage lending services. Specifically, the complaint alleges that, from 2013 to 2017, Cadence engaged in unlawful redlining in the Houston area by avoiding predominantly Black and Hispanic neighborhoods because of the race, color and national origin of the people living in those neighborhoods. The department also alleges that Cadence’s branches were concentrated in majority-white neighborhoods, that the bank’s loan officers did not serve the credit needs of majority-Black and Hispanic neighborhoods and that the bank’s outreach and marketing avoided those neighborhoods.*











U.S. Expands Investigation Into Banks That Discriminate in Lending


"Lending discrimination runs counter to fundamental promises of our economic system," Attorney General Merrick Garland said Friday.




www.newsweek.com







> The U.S. is expanding a cross-government investigation to crack down on redlining, a practice in which banks discriminate against certain racial minorities or neighborhoods by refusing loans, the Associated Press reported.
> 
> The Justice Department announced the initiative Friday, marking the first major extension in redlining probes since the Obama administration.
> 
> Though legislation has been put in place to curb the practice, redlining and its long-term consequences remain present and problematic as U.S. Black families typically see a fraction of the net worth of a typical white household. Meanwhile, homes in neighborhoods that were redlined in the past are still worth less today than homes in areas that were never targeted with lending discrimination, the AP reporte


----------



## Seth Grimes

Driver79 said:


> @RapShepard you have taken a lot of stories and a lot of incidents out of context. I have worked adjacently to finance and lending for 15 years, there are a million different ways someone could twist the data to have it mean whatever they want it to mean.
> 
> I am telling you this without hesitation. If you are a black, and you have verifiable income, and you have a high enough credit score... there isn't a mortgage bank in the world that won't want to do business with you. And you are not going to get a higher interest rate on your loan just because the underwriter happens to be a secret klansman. They don't want you applying for another loan at another bank.
> 
> Does this make sense to you?


Couldn't you elaborate on the ways someone can twist data to have it mean whatever they want, then? If we see data that shows a black person with almost identical credit score to a white person is getting rejected for loans, then what is the factor we're missing here that isn't race?


----------



## IronMan8

RapShepard said:


> Imagine eating so much dick that some how you come to the conclusion that the fucking us government who is with all the shits is wrong for looking into lending discrimination


1. You're being homophobic. There's nothing wrong with "eating dick" and I shouldn't be expected to feel ashamed of "eating dick" if I happened to be gay. Don't discriminate against gay people.
2. You didn't address my point at all. Also, I never said it's wrong to investigate.



Seth Grimes said:


> Couldn't you elaborate on the ways someone can twist data to have it mean whatever they want, then? If we see data that shows a black person with almost identical credit score to a white person is getting rejected for loans, then what is the factor we're missing here that isn't race?


Now I could be wrong here - but my understanding is this is an economic argument in which more black people happen to be affected because more black people are already living in the poorest neighbourhoods, to put it simply.

Therefore, they claim that a white person and a black person with identical credit scores living as next door neighbours were equally likely to get rejected for sub prime loans in the selected poor neighbourhoods.


----------



## Seth Grimes

IronMan8 said:


> Because the above sources claim that a white person and a black person with identical credit scores living as next door neighbours were equally likely to get rejected for sub prime loans in the select poor neighbourhoods.











Bank of America to Pay $335 Million Settlement in Fair Lending Case


Bank of America has agreed to pay $335 million to resolve allegations that its Countrywide unit engaged in a widespread pattern of discrimination against qualified African-American and Hispanic borrowers.




www.foxnews.com





I don't see that anywhere? In fact it states 

"According to the DOJ's complaint, Countrywide charged over 200,000 African-American and Hispanic borrowers higher fees and interest rates than non-Hispanic white borrowers *with a similar credit profile*".


----------



## IronMan8

Seth Grimes said:


> Bank of America to Pay $335 Million Settlement in Fair Lending Case
> 
> 
> Bank of America has agreed to pay $335 million to resolve allegations that its Countrywide unit engaged in a widespread pattern of discrimination against qualified African-American and Hispanic borrowers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see that anywhere? In fact it states
> 
> "According to the DOJ's complaint, Countrywide charged over 200,000 African-American and Hispanic borrowers higher fees and interest rates than non-Hispanic white borrowers *with a similar credit profile*".


There were 3 sources cited and I was referring to the last 2, as they were what RS directly asked me about after I addressed the 1st one earlier.

You are correct about the 1st source. However, it is from nearly 20 years ago, and was evidently a rare situation even back then.

Therefore, we are discussing an uncommon issue in which the most recent evidence is from nearly 20 years ago. 

That means we can't draw conclusions about widespread racism in society today based on these sources, which is my only point here.


----------



## Seth Grimes

IronMan8 said:


> There were 3 sources cited and I was referring to the last 2, as they were what RS directly asked me about after I addressed the 1st one earlier.
> 
> You are correct about the 1st source. However, it is from nearly 20 years ago, and was evidently a rare situation even back then.
> 
> Therefore, we are discussing an uncommon issue in which the most recent evidence is from nearly 20 years ago.
> 
> That means we can't draw conclusions about widespread racism in society today based on these sources, which is my only point here.


It's from 15-20 years ago, and I'd say that isn't that long enough, the same people who were fucked over by that are likely still feeling the effects of it. 









The secret bias hidden in mortgage-approval algorithms


The new four-bedroom house in Charlotte, North Carolina, was Crystal Marie and Eskias McDaniels’ personal American dream, the reason they had moved there from pricey Los Angeles. A lush, long lawn, 2,700 square feet of living space, gleaming kitchen, and a neighborhood pool and playground for...




apnews.com





If you read this, it does go into both sides of the argument, I wouldn't call bank lenders racist per se, but where it says 

"They require lenders to use a particular credit scoring algorithm, “Classic FICO,” to determine whether an applicant meets the minimum threshold to be considered for a conventional mortgage in the first place, currently a score of 620. Launched more than 15 years ago based on data from the 1990s, Classic FICO is widely considered detrimental to people of color because it rewards traditional credit, to which they have less access than white Americans. It doesn’t consider, among other things, on-time payments for rent, utilities, and cellphone bills — but will lower people’s scores if they get behind on those bills and sent to debt collectors."

You can see that it definitely would hurt them. Of course this is gonna hurt anyone who comes from a poor family, which in America is more-so black people. Here is another good point

"For instance, traditional banks are less likely than payday loan sellers to place branches in neighborhoods populated mainly by people of color. Payday lenders don’t report timely payments, so they can only damage credit."

Again, not sure why they frame it as "mainly populated by POC" when we know they mean the poorest areas. And yeah, before you say it "they should just stop borrowing money they can't pay back then", is a lot easier said than done. For anyone who's been at the bottom, they know how easily or suddenly you can lose a bunch of money. Legit happened to me the last few days with things randomly being taken out of my bank that I'm still not sure what for, as well as important things breaking that needs to be fixed. Luckily I borrow of friends, but this is an easy slippery slope to go down, and feels a bit unfair when people from the middle class+ are never gonna have these issues fuck them over.


----------



## RapShepard

IronMan8 said:


> 1. You're being homophobic. There's nothing wrong with "eating dick" and I shouldn't be expected to feel ashamed of "eating dick" if I happened to be gay. Don't discriminate against gay people.
> 2. You didn't address my point at all. Also, I never said it's wrong to investigate.
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could be wrong here - but my understanding is this is an economic argument in which more black people happen to be affected because more black people are already living in the poorest neighbourhoods, to put it simply.
> 
> Therefore, they claim that a white person and a black person with identical credit scores living as next door neighbours were equally likely to get rejected for sub prime loans in the selected poor neighbourhoods.


You are literally arguing against multiple court cases and the US government investigating banks to argue that lending discrimination never happens.


----------



## Driver79

Seth Grimes said:


> Couldn't you elaborate on the ways someone can twist data to have it mean whatever they want, then? If we see data that shows a black person with almost identical credit score to a white person is getting rejected for loans, then what is the factor we're missing here that isn't race?


I doubt they were being rejected for a loan, that wouldn't serve the bank whatsoever. More likely certain borrowers were being charged higher interest rates and fees. Trust me if the bank has something to gain by lending money, they are going to do it. That is their business. 

When it comes to interest rates the only thing that banks rely on is math, nothing else... HOWEVER even the banks cannot account for some lying or incompetent salesperson. If some broker charges an extra point on the back end or convinces someone to take a higher interest rate, or doing something they aren't supposed to be doing... they can't really account for that or control that.

In short, if 100 people fall victim to something and 60-70 just so happen to be black and brown, that does not automatically mean that they were being targeted because of their race.


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> This is you above don't switch up now. You said that everything was perfect that there was nobody doing anything wrong


You're being ridiculous. Every industry is vulnerable to scams and corruption to varying degrees. There are bad mortgage brokers just like there are bad teachers and bad lawyers and bad policemen.

What I'm saying is that you being black and has nothing to do with your ability to get a loan, and in the rare instance you happen to find yourself doing business with some dishonest bank or loan officer... trust me they were going to try and scam you no matter what color you were.

White people make up 60% of the country and have most of the money, do you honestly think that people aren't also trying to scam them at every waking moment?


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> You're being ridiculous. Every industry is vulnerable to scams and corruption to varying degrees. There are bad mortgage brokers just like there are bad teachers and bad lawyers and bad policemen.
> 
> What I'm saying is that you being black and has nothing to do with your ability to get a loan, and in the rare instance you happen to find yourself doing business with some dishonest bank or loan officer... trust me they were going to try and scam you no matter what color you were.
> 
> White people make up 60% of the country and have most of the money, do you honestly think that people aren't also trying to scam them at every waking moment?


This is you below



Driver79 said:


> *Any black person with a qualifying credit score and a qualifying verifiable income can get a loan from any lender and purchase property anywhere in the united states. *
> 
> I know you would much rather believe the world is against you, but facts are a funny thing.



you've went from 

"Loan discrimination doesn't even exist lol. Do you honestly think a bank wouldn't give a qualified black person a loan."

To

"Well I mean yeah some banks practice loan discrimination, but it's not racial even when they're specifically settling over cases regarding blacks and Hispanics."


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> This is you below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you've went from
> 
> "Loan discrimination doesn't even exist lol. Do you honestly think a bank wouldn't give a qualified black person a loan."
> 
> To
> 
> "Well I mean yeah some banks practice loan discrimination, but it's not racial even when they're specifically settling over cases regarding blacks and Hispanics."


It's almost like you possess a child's capability to differentiate arguments. As already stated, blacks and hispanics were not the only ones targeted.

You are so committed to your victimhood narrative that you are determined not to let the facts get in the way.


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> It's almost like you possess a child's capability to differentiate arguments. As already stated, blacks and hispanics were not the only ones targeted.
> 
> You are so committed to your victimhood narrative that you are determined not to let the facts get in the way.











U.S. Expands Investigation Into Banks That Discriminate in Lending


"Lending discrimination runs counter to fundamental promises of our economic system," Attorney General Merrick Garland said Friday.




www.newsweek.com





* The U.S. is expanding a cross-government investigation to crack down on redlining, a practice in which banks discriminate against certain racial minorities or neighborhoods by refusing loans, the Associated Press reported. 
*


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> U.S. Expands Investigation Into Banks That Discriminate in Lending
> 
> 
> "Lending discrimination runs counter to fundamental promises of our economic system," Attorney General Merrick Garland said Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * The U.S. is expanding a cross-government investigation to crack down on redlining, a practice in which banks discriminate against certain racial minorities or neighborhoods by refusing loans, the Associated Press reported. *


Yea and the government also investigated Trump for phony russian collusion... what else is fucking new.

Spoiler alert, there are bad faith actors working in government. You reference an investigation being spearheaded by Merrick Garland meanwhile he's already been caught with his pants down lying at senate hearings on multiple occasions... whether it was in regard to the FBI targeting parents at school board meetings or the FBI's inovlement in the capitol riot.

Merrick Garland is not your friend and he is not interested whatsoever in Social Justice(TM).


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> Yea and the government also investigated Trump for phony russian collusion... what else is fucking new.
> 
> Spoiler alert, there are bad faith actors working in government. You reference an investigation being spearheaded by Merrick Garland meanwhile he's already been caught with his pants down lying at senate hearings on multiple occasions... whether it was in regard to the FBI targeting parents at school board meetings or the FBI's inovlement in the capitol riot.
> 
> Merrick Garland is not your friend and he is not interested whatsoever in Social Justice(TM).


This is you below



Driver79 said:


> *Any black person with a qualifying credit score and a qualifying verifiable income can get a loan from any lender and purchase property anywhere in the united states. *
> 
> I know you would much rather believe the world is against you, but facts are a funny thing.











Racial discrimination in mortgage market persistent over last four decades


Racial discrimination in mortgage market persistent over last four decades




news.northwestern.edu






“For example, in about 10% audits in which a white and an African-American auditor were sent to apply for the same unit after 2005, the white auditor was recommended more units than the African-American auditor. These trends hold in both the large HUD (Housing and Urban Development)-sponsored housing audits, which others have examined with similar findings to us, and in smaller correspondence studies.”

[/B]In the mortgage market the researchers found that racial gaps in loan denial have declined only slightly, and racial gaps in mortgage cost have not declined at all, suggesting persistent racial discrimination. Black and Hispanic borrowers are more likely to be rejected when they apply for a loan and are more likely to receive a high-cost mortgage.[/b]

“It was distressing to find no evidence of reduced discrimination in the mortgage market over the last 35 years,” said Quillian, also a faculty fellow with the University’s Institute for Policy Research. “Discrimination in the mortgage market makes it more difficult for minority households to build wealth through housing, contributing to racial wealth gaps. Discrimination in the housing market increases housing insecurity for minority households and contributes to persistent neighborhood segregation. These results help account for why black homeownership has not increased over the last 35 years.”

*The reduction in the most exclusionary forms of housing discrimination suggests that in most cases discrimination will not block persistent efforts by black or Hispanic households to move into white or affluent neighborhoods. 

“We believe that more subtle forms of discrimination will steer households with weaker neighborhood preferences toward own-race neighborhoods, helping to maintain residential segregation,” Quillian said.*


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> What you're arguing is a phony "we're all the same" argument. You and I both know subcultures and subgenres exist. Soul Train is an African American dance show that pretty much only plays and features black musicians playing black genres of music. To pretend that doesn't have a different place in culture than the biggest event in the country's biggest sport is ludicrous.


Soul Train doesn’t get the same ratings as the Super Bowl, because Tony Khan doesn’t like black people, confirmed!

Just ask Big Swole..


----------



## IronMan8

RapShepard said:


> You are literally arguing against multiple court cases and the US government investigating banks to argue that lending discrimination never happens.


That's not what I'm saying at all. I do fully support investigations into lending discrimination, and yes, it does happen. 

My message is a positive one, even though I'm not doing a good job of expressing it. Simply put, black people can and should expect equality from banks. Otherwise, it's a similar line of logic to fearing death from a police officer when the data doesn't support such fears. In this case, the investigations you've cited wouldn't be worthy of a second of thought for 99%+ of black people. The investigations you've cited do not suggest a widespread problem.

My argument, based on the sources you've provided in this thread, is:

a.) A white person and a black person living as next door neighbours,
b.) with identical poor credit scores,
c.) who don't qualify for a standard loan,
d.) but are similar in every other way except for ethnicity,
e.) have been equally likely to get a sub prime loan over the past 15 years, and that
f.) rare cases of discrimination occurred 15+ years ago to a small, localised subset of the broader population, which means
g.) even 15+ years ago, the average black person with a poor credit score had no reason to expect discrimination from banks.

What does this mean for the average person today? It means you have nothing to worry about. This is a good realisation to have.

However, my ears are very much open to reflect on why anything I've said could be wrong or missing the point, and I'm always happy to change my mind when someone corrects me.


----------



## IronMan8

Seth Grimes said:


> It's from 15-20 years ago, and I'd say that isn't that long enough, the same people who were fucked over by that are likely still feeling the effects of it.


That's true, but it is able to coexist with my point also remaining true. 



Seth Grimes said:


> Classic FICO is widely considered detrimental to people of color because it rewards traditional credit, to which they have less access than white Americans. It doesn’t consider, among other things, on-time payments for rent, utilities, and cellphone bills — but will lower people’s scores if they get behind on those bills and sent to debt collectors."
> 
> You can see that it definitely would hurt them.


I understand the credit score concept now. Is the distinction here basically the difference in credit risk when going through traditional banks vs payday lenders? And black people are more likely to use payday lenders because traditional banks open less branches in poorer neighbourhoods, thus leaving gaps for payday lenders to disproportionately fill in poorer neighbourhoods?

It makes sense for a loan decision to take into consideration a person who has a history of requiring debt collectors. But what you're saying is black people are more likely to use payday lenders and are therefore at greater risk of harming their credit score even though in actuality they weren't less dependable at paying back the credit?

So... two people, one borrows from a traditional bank, the other from a non-traditional lender. Both miss the same payments. But only one of them hurts their credit score?

If that's what you're saying, that's a better argument. I do have some more thoughts on that below.



Seth Grimes said:


> Of course this is gonna hurt anyone who comes from a poor family, which in America is more-so black people.


The above sentence is a common theme in these topics and is not an example of racial discrimination if similarly poor white people are equally affected (which I believe is the case here).



Seth Grimes said:


> Here is another good point
> 
> "For instance, traditional banks are less likely than payday loan sellers to place branches in neighborhoods populated mainly by people of color. Payday lenders don’t report timely payments, so they can only damage credit."


You're right, this is a good point. This one made me reconsider, and I accept this situation arising does create a tougher environment. However, I also think it's not causation, it's a symptom; the directionality is the other way around. The payday loan sellers emerge in the gaps left behind by traditional banks. It makes total sense why this would happen.

Rather than having a racial component, I believe this just comes back to the pre-existing disadvantages concept.



Seth Grimes said:


> Again, not sure why they frame it as "mainly populated by POC" when we know they mean the poorest areas. And yeah, before you say it "they should just stop borrowing money they can't pay back then", is a lot easier said than done. For anyone who's been at the bottom, they know how easily or suddenly you can lose a bunch of money. Legit happened to me the last few days with things randomly being taken out of my bank that I'm still not sure what for, as well as important things breaking that needs to be fixed. Luckily I borrow of friends, but this is an easy slippery slope to go down, and feels a bit unfair when people from the middle class+ are never gonna have these issues fuck them over.


This is all true, but where is the racial component? It's the age old concept of pre-existing disadvantages giving all people in that category a tougher pathway to a better life. Would that be correct?


----------



## RapShepard

IronMan8 said:


> That's not what I'm saying at all. I do fully support investigations into lending discrimination, and yes, it does happen.
> 
> My message is a positive one, even though I'm not doing a good job of expressing it. Simply put, black people can and should expect equality from banks. Otherwise, it's a similar line of logic to fearing death from a police officer when the data doesn't support such fears. In this case, the investigations you've cited wouldn't be worthy of a second of thought for 99%+ of black people. The investigations you've cited do not suggest a widespread problem.
> 
> My argument, based on the sources you've provided in this thread, is:
> 
> a.) A white person and a black person living as next door neighbours,
> b.) with identical poor credit scores,
> c.) who don't qualify for a standard loan,
> d.) but are similar in every other way except for ethnicity,
> e.) have been equally likely to get a sub prime loan over the past 15 years, and that
> f.) rare cases of discrimination occurred 15+ years ago to a small, localised subset of the broader population, which means
> g.) even 15+ years ago, the average black person with a poor credit score had no reason to expect discrimination from banks.
> 
> What does this mean for the average person today? It means you have nothing to worry about. This is a good realisation to have.
> 
> However, my ears are very much open to reflect on why anything I've said could be wrong or missing the point, and I'm always happy to change my mind when someone corrects me.











Racial discrimination in mortgage market persistent over last four decades


Racial discrimination in mortgage market persistent over last four decades




news.northwestern.edu






“For example, in about 10% audits in which a white and an African-American auditor were sent to apply for the same unit after 2005, the white auditor was recommended more units than the African-American auditor. These trends hold in both the large HUD (Housing and Urban Development)-sponsored housing audits, which others have examined with similar findings to us, and in smaller correspondence studies.”

[/B]In the mortgage market the researchers found that racial gaps in loan denial have declined only slightly, and racial gaps in mortgage cost have not declined at all, suggesting persistent racial discrimination. Black and Hispanic borrowers are more likely to be rejected when they apply for a loan and are more likely to receive a high-cost mortgage.[/b]

“It was distressing to find no evidence of reduced discrimination in the mortgage market over the last 35 years,” said Quillian, also a faculty fellow with the University’s Institute for Policy Research. “Discrimination in the mortgage market makes it more difficult for minority households to build wealth through housing, contributing to racial wealth gaps. Discrimination in the housing market increases housing insecurity for minority households and contributes to persistent neighborhood segregation. These results help account for why black homeownership has not increased over the last 35 years.”

*The reduction in the most exclusionary forms of housing discrimination suggests that in most cases discrimination will not block persistent efforts by black or Hispanic households to move into white or affluent neighborhoods. 

“We believe that more subtle forms of discrimination will steer households with weaker neighborhood preferences toward own-race neighborhoods, helping to maintain residential segregation,” Quillian said.*


----------



## Driver79

Seth Grimes said:


> "They require lenders to use a particular credit scoring algorithm, “Classic FICO,” to determine whether an applicant meets the minimum threshold to be considered for a conventional mortgage in the first place, currently a score of 620. Launched more than 15 years ago based on data from the 1990s, Classic FICO is widely considered detrimental to people of color because it rewards traditional credit, to which they have less access than white Americans. It doesn’t consider, among other things, on-time payments for rent, utilities, and cellphone bills — but will lower people’s scores if they get behind on those bills and sent to debt collectors."
> 
> You can see that it definitely would hurt them. Of course this is gonna hurt anyone who comes from a poor family, which in America is more-so black people. Here is another good point


This is totally ridiculous. In what way do black people not have access to "traditional credit"?? Wtf does that even mean??? Credit isn't something you have access to. Either you pay your credt card bills on time or you don't. Either you pay your bills or you don't. If you do, you receive a higher credit score. If you don't, you receive a lower one.

What you're basically saying is that it's impossible for black people to pay their bills. 😐 😐 😐


----------



## Seth Grimes

Driver79 said:


> I doubt they were being rejected for a loan, that wouldn't serve the bank whatsoever. More likely certain borrowers were being charged higher interest rates and fees. Trust me if the bank has something to gain by lending money, they are going to do it. That is their business.
> 
> When it comes to interest rates the only thing that banks rely on is math, nothing else... HOWEVER even the banks cannot account for some lying or incompetent salesperson. If some broker charges an extra point on the back end or convinces someone to take a higher interest rate, or doing something they aren't supposed to be doing... they can't really account for that or control that.
> 
> In short, if 100 people fall victim to something and 60-70 just so happen to be black and brown, that does not automatically mean that they were being targeted because of their race.


So it's not bad to charge higher rates and interests because you seen it was a black person and assumed that they would be a shitty lender? The same way you'd judge a poor ass white person the same way, I'm not sure we can sit here and just go "oh welp, it fucking happens m8 haha not much you can do because nowhere in the world is perfect, so what should we even do?". You realise the context right, you can just say "it's math" all you want, means dick all, you do know that yes? This is like looking at crime stats and saying "yeah poor people just commit more crime dude, the math doesn't lie, they get found guilty way more", even despite richer people being able to pay for way better lawyers to get away with it. Again, context matters, bud.

It doesn't matter if they were being specifically targeted, but if it negatively impacts certain groups more than others.



IronMan8 said:


> I understand the credit score concept now. Is the distinction here basically the difference in credit risk when going through traditional banks vs payday lenders? And black people are more likely to use payday lenders because traditional banks open less branches in poorer neighbourhoods, thus leaving gaps for payday lenders to disproportionately fill in poorer neighbourhoods?
> 
> It makes sense for a loan decision to take into consideration a person who has a history of requiring debt collectors. But what you're saying is black people are more likely to use payday lenders and are therefore at greater risk of harming their credit score even though in actuality they weren't less dependable at paying back the credit?
> 
> So... two people, one borrows from a traditional bank, the other from a non-traditional lender. Both miss the same payments. But only one of them hurts their credit score?
> 
> If that's what you're saying, that's a better argument. I do have some more thoughts on that below.


Yeah that's literally it. Traditional credit is where mortgage lenders and banks report positives to the actual credit companies themselves, whereas non-traditional credit is things like payday loans, where they won't report positives, but will definitely report negatives.

It's the opposite of that which is the problem. In your example, they both get reported negatively to the bank. But in an example where they both pay it back on time, only the traditional lender will get a + on their score, whereas the payday lender won't get anything.



IronMan8 said:


> The above sentence is a common theme in these topics and is not an example of racial discrimination if similarly poor white people are equally affected (which I believe is the case here).


Yeah I agree, that many problems that we actually say solely effect the black community are often times just class problems, or male problems. But there is definitely parts of it down to race, because they're ignoring where they are at in the system, and ignoring that is it harder for them from the very start. Like I said before, I wouldn't call it racist, but if it's unfairly impacting one group over another then ofc something should be done about it.



IronMan8 said:


> You're right, this is a good point. This one made me reconsider, and I accept this situation arising does create a tougher environment. However, I also think it's not causation, it's a symptom; the directionality is the other way around. The payday loan sellers emerge in the gaps left behind by traditional banks. It makes total sense why this would happen.
> 
> Rather than having a racial component, I believe this just comes back to the pre-existing disadvantages concept.


Yeah I can agree with that, and making it harder for people to get mortgages is one of the most problematic things for people, because getting a house is one of the biggest steps to climbing out of generational poverty



IronMan8 said:


> This is all true, but where is the racial component? It's the age old concept of pre-existing disadvantages giving all people in that category a tougher pathway to a better life. Would that be correct?


I'd say the racial component is ignoring the fact that a lot of black people will have pre-existing disadvantages. In the same way that if we made the lending system about strength, and women were just told to get stronger if they wanted mortgages.



Driver79 said:


> This is totally ridiculous. In what way do black people not have access to "traditional credit"?? Wtf does that even mean??? Credit isn't something you have access to. Either you pay your credt card bills on time or you don't. Either you pay your bills or you don't. If you do, you receive a higher credit score. If you don't, you receive a lower one.
> 
> What you're basically saying is that it's impossible for black people to pay their bills. 😐 😐 😐


Earlier you claimed to have worked in the field, yet don't know what traditional credit is? I'm sorry if you're having trouble reading, you should slow down and actually try to take in what I'm saying. See, Iron Man completely understood what I was talking about, probably because he's not an ideologue out to "get one ova on da libs".


----------



## Driver79

Seth Grimes said:


> Earlier you claimed to have worked in the field, yet don't know what traditional credit is? I'm sorry if you're having trouble reading, you should slow down and actually try to take in what I'm saying. See, Iron Man completely understood what I was talking about, probably because he's not an ideologue out to "get one ova on da libs".


You literally quoted a piece and tried to make the argument that FICO scores are racist. I'm just here to tell you ridiculous you sound.

But by all means, you are free to clear the air and explain what it is you were trying to say.


----------



## 3venflow

I think this kind of thing shows the disconnect between a *very loud* minority on Twitter/the internet and the real world.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479122181175001088


----------



## Pentagon Senior

3venflow said:


> I think this kind of thing shows the disconnect between a *very loud* minority on Twitter/the internet and the real world.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479122181175001088


That's an interesting thought. 

As a more casual fan than most my only interaction with the IWC is this forum and beyond that I just watch Dynamite on TV and that's it. I can tell you that I'd have no idea whatsoever what TK's been saying on twitter (which I don't use) if it wasn't for logging on here occasionally. I'd definitely go to a live show if I got the opportunity in the UK though


----------



## $Dolladrew$

RapShepard said:


> First hand knowledge could never improve anything
> 
> Got it lol


Stop trying to speak rationally with that fool lol


----------



## IronMan8

RapShepard said:


> Racial discrimination in mortgage market persistent over last four decades
> 
> 
> Racial discrimination in mortgage market persistent over last four decades
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.northwestern.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “For example, in about 10% audits in which a white and an African-American auditor were sent to apply for the same unit after 2005, the white auditor was recommended more units than the African-American auditor. These trends hold in both the large HUD (Housing and Urban Development)-sponsored housing audits, which others have examined with similar findings to us, and in smaller correspondence studies.”
> 
> [/B]In the mortgage market the researchers found that racial gaps in loan denial have declined only slightly, and racial gaps in mortgage cost have not declined at all, suggesting persistent racial discrimination. Black and Hispanic borrowers are more likely to be rejected when they apply for a loan and are more likely to receive a high-cost mortgage.[/b]
> 
> “It was distressing to find no evidence of reduced discrimination in the mortgage market over the last 35 years,” said Quillian, also a faculty fellow with the University’s Institute for Policy Research. “Discrimination in the mortgage market makes it more difficult for minority households to build wealth through housing, contributing to racial wealth gaps. Discrimination in the housing market increases housing insecurity for minority households and contributes to persistent neighborhood segregation. These results help account for why black homeownership has not increased over the last 35 years.”
> 
> *The reduction in the most exclusionary forms of housing discrimination suggests that in most cases discrimination will not block persistent efforts by black or Hispanic households to move into white or affluent neighborhoods.
> 
> “We believe that more subtle forms of discrimination will steer households with weaker neighborhood preferences toward own-race neighborhoods, helping to maintain residential segregation,” Quillian said.*


Unfortunately, you haven't given any thought to my post, again.

Your loss.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

NathanMayberry said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478809213828694017
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 There is no way they should have done that spot. That shit was ugly.


----------



## RapShepard

IronMan8 said:


> Unfortunately, you haven't given any thought to my post, again.
> 
> Your loss.


You've been given proof that there's loan discrimination between even poor minorities and poor whites. You've been given proof that most forms of racial discrimination in loaning have seen little change the last 35 years. Sure class issues exists, but still even within the same class racial issues and gender issues exists and it's okay to acknowledge that. No these issues don't mean folk should up and not try, because that's stupid. But acknowledging the world's ills shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

…. is this thread still going?


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> You've been given proof that there's loan discrimination between even poor minorities and poor whites. You've been given proof that most forms of racial discrimination in loaning have seen little change the last 35 years. Sure class issues exists, but still even within the same class racial issues and gender issues exists and it's okay to acknowledge that. No these issues don't mean folk should up and not try, because that's stupid. *But acknowledging the world's ills shouldn't be an issue.*


Not when you misrepresent the facts.

Like I said earlier, only about 14-20 unarmed black people die by the hands of the police each year. That is an extremely rare statistic when you consider that there are 40 million black people living in America. Are those 14 deaths truly indicative of the deep seeded racism that plagues law enforcement throughout the country, or are we just exploiting these extraordinarily rare tragedies for political and personal gain?


----------



## $Dolladrew$

LifeInCattleClass said:


> …. is this thread still going?


Look what you did.....


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> Not when you misrepresent the facts.
> 
> Like I said earlier, only about 14-20 unarmed black people die by the hands of the police each year. That is an extremely rare statistic when you consider that there are 40 million black people living in America. Are those 14 deaths truly indicative of the deep seeded racism that plagues law enforcement throughout the country, or are we just exploiting these extraordinarily rare tragedies for political and personal gain?











Full list of Black people killed by police in 2021


Despite the BLM movement, Black people are being killed at similar rates to previous years.




www.newsweek.com





"At least 200 Black people were killed by police officers across the U.S. in 2021.

Police killed a total of 1051 people this year according to Mapping Police Violence (MPV), a nonprofit organization that tracks fatal encounters with police.

*Black people continue to be disproportionately impacted by police violence, the data shows. Black people account for 27 percent of those killed by police in 2021 (of those whose race is known), despite making up 13 percent of the U.S. population.*

They are being killed at similar rates to previous years, the data shows, despite a national reckoning sparked by the police killings of George Floyd and other Black people.

[/B]Black people are three times more likely to be killed by police, yet 1.3 times more likely to be unarmed compared to white people, according to MPV.

The organization's data also shows that most police killings began with traffic stops, mental health checks, disturbances, non-violent offenses and instances where no crime was alleged."[/B]

 *_*





__





Demographic Differences in Sentencing


(November 2017) A report updating the Commission's data analysis concerning demographic differences in federal sentencing practices set forth in the Commission's 2012 Report to the Congress: Continuing Impact of United States v. Booker on Federal Sentencing.




www.ussc.gov






1. Black male offenders continued to receive longer sentences than similarly situated White male offenders. Black male offenders received sentences on average 19.1 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders during the Post-Report period (fiscal years 2012-2016), as they had for the prior four periods studied. The differences in sentence length remained relatively unchanged compared to the Post-Gall period.

3. Violence in an offender’s criminal history does not appear to account for any of the demographic differences in sentencing. Black male offenders received sentences on average 20.4 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders, accounting for violence in an offender’s past in fiscal year 2016, the only year for which such data is available. This figure is almost the same as the 20.7 percent difference without accounting for past violence. Thus, violence in an offender’s criminal history does not appear to contribute to the sentence imposed to any extent beyond its contribution to the offender’s criminal history score determined under the sentencing guidelines.

*__*

But yes black people should totally be okay with getting harsher sentencing and being more likely to be shot by the police.


----------



## BlueEyedDevil

I hope Swole has some diversity in her occupational skills so she can get a job. This thread is the last epitaph of her wrestling persona.


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> But yes black people should totally be okay with getting harsher sentencing and being more likely to be shot by the police.


You cannot just dishonestly cite ALL police killings in your argument when the topic at hand was specifically in relation to unarmed people. Obviously those who are resisting arrest and are considered armed and dangerous are walking a much finer line.

More white people are killed by the police each year than black people. The only reason black people are disproportionately represented is because black people dispropronietely commit more crimes. When one group commit more crimes per capita, they invite more police encounters per capita. It isn't rocket science.


----------



## RapShepard

You started with arguing this below



Driver79 said:


> Any black person with a qualifying credit score and a qualifying verifiable income can get a loan from any lender and purchase property anywhere in the united states.
> 
> I know you would much rather believe the world is against you, but facts are a funny thing.


And are now babbling about how much you think black people should be thrilled with the police and justice system that is clearly flawed




Driver79 said:


> Not when you misrepresent the facts.
> 
> Like I said earlier, only about 14-20 unarmed black people die by the hands of the police each year. That is an extremely rare statistic when you consider that there are 40 million black people living in America. Are those 14 deaths truly indicative of the deep seeded racism that plagues law enforcement throughout the country, or are we just exploiting these extraordinarily rare tragedies for political and personal gain?


You're the one emotionally jumping from subject to subject being triggered at the mere thought a group would speak about things that concern them. 

I'm sure back in the day you'd have argued against something like all buildings need to be wheelchair accessible. After all why should we focus on an issue that affects such a small percentage of people.


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> You're the one emotionally jumping from subject to subject being triggered at the mere thought a group would speak about things that concern them.


I only pivoted to police killings because it is another example of your hypocrisy. The fact is whether it is police killings or shady mortgage lenders, it's clear that the facts are ignored at the expense of your preferred narrative.

Here's another fact for you. Black males under 40 are about 4% of the US population but make up roughly 50% of all homicide offenders. Not only that but the majority of those victims are other black males. Is that not a concern of yours also? Is there a reason why the political left and all of their virtue signaling cohorts in media and entertainment prefer to stay silent on this? I thought you said we were supposed to acknowledge the issues.

Chicago alone saw 800 homicides this year, and a fair portion of those are innocent bystanders. Just recently George Floyd's 4 year old niece was shot in Houston. Where is your outrage? Why aren't you talking about it? Why does a black life matter to you only when they die under a specific and extremely rare circumstance?

Let's see... could it be that you're all totally full of shit?


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> I only pivoted to police killings because it is another example of your hypocrisy. The fact is whether it is police killings or shady mortgage lenders, it's clear that the facts are ignored at the expense of your preferred narrative.
> 
> Here's another fact for you. Black males under 40 are about 4% of the US population but make up roughly 50% of all homicide offenders. Not only that but the majority of those victims are other black males. Is that not a concern of yours also? Is there a reason why the political left and all of their virtue signaling cohorts in media and entertainment prefer to stay silent on this? I thought you said we were supposed to acknowledge the issues.
> 
> Chicago alone saw 800 homicides this year, and a fair portion of those are innocent bystanders. Just recently George Floyd's 4 year old niece was shot in Houston. Where is your outrage? Why aren't you talking about it? Why does a black life matter to you only when they die under a specific and extremely rare circumstance?
> 
> Let's see... could it be that you're all totally full of shit?


You pivoted because you keep getting caught wrong. As for my narrative this is going to sound crazy. But as a black guy I can and will acknowledge the bull shit unfair shit black people face and the bull shit some black people do 

This is me in a thread about the largely black Nordstrom looting incident 



RapShepard said:


> The cops beating the fuck out of somebody's car might be the best case of play stupid games win stupid prizes I've seen in a minute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Akademiks TV on Instagram: "They tried to hit a lick on the Louis Vuitton store in San Francisco"
> 
> 
> Akademiks TV shared a post on Instagram: "They tried to hit a lick on the Louis Vuitton store in San Francisco". Follow their account to see 312 posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.instagram.com




Below is me in a thread about the all black gang that robbed 100+ Asians mostly women in Cali 




RapShepard said:


> Yup it's well known thing out in Cali
> 
> YG explains it on his song Meet The Flocka's the belief is Asians don't keep bank accounts






RapShepard said:


> Nah its a hate crime they were stalking asian grocery stores. You don't accidentally rob that many people of the same race in a community that's not yours by accident


what admitting black people can and do commit hate crimes. Some narrative that is.


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> You pivoted because you keep getting caught wrong. As for my narrative this is going to sound crazy. But as a black guy I can and will acknowledge the bull shit unfair shit black people face and the bull shit some black people do
> 
> This is me in a thread about the largely black Nordstrom looting incident
> 
> Below is me in a thread about the all black gang that robbed 100+ Asians mostly women in Cali
> 
> what admitting black people can and do commit hate crimes. Some narrative that is.


Okay that's great and all but you don't get a cookie for calling out blatantly obvious wrongdoing. My point is that the progressive moment has totally run amok and it's built entirely on phony people selling dishonest truths. 

How do we know these people are phony? Because when Jacob Blake was shot he inspired a riot and a protest and when George Floyd's niece was shot nobody even bothered to share it on instagram. One is a thug with a violent record and a history of domestic abuse and sexual assault, the other is an innocent 4 year old girl.


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> Okay that's great and all but you don't get a cookie for calling out blatantly obvious wrongdoing. *My point is that the progressive moment has totally run amok and it's built entirely on phony people selling dishonest truths.
> 
> How do we know these people are phony?* Because when Jacob Blake was shot he inspired a riot and a protest and when George Floyd's niece was shot nobody even bothered to share it on instagram. One is a thug with a violent record and a history of domestic abuse and sexual assault, the other is an innocent 4 year old girl.


How do we know you're not a phony person? You don't seem to have an original thought at all. Your talking points are as predictable as a female gold digger explaining why it's totally okay for her to offer nothing but pussy in a relationship


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> How do we know you're not a phony person? You don't seem to have an original thought at all. Your talking points are as predictable as a female gold digger explaining why it's totally okay for her to offer nothing but pussy in a relationship


The argument you have heard right-wingers making for 20 years may be predictable, and you may be tired of hearing it, but it also correct. 

That's the thing about the truth, it's consistent.


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> The argument you have heard right-wingers making for 20 years may be predictable, and you may be tired of hearing it, but it also correct.
> 
> That's the thing about the truth, it's consistent.




This is you



Driver79 said:


> Any black person with a qualifying credit score and a qualifying verifiable income can get a loan from any lender and purchase property anywhere in the united states.
> 
> I know you would much rather believe the world is against you, but facts are a funny thing.


This is also you below



Driver79 said:


> A bank getting in trouble for *Racial discrimination in lending* is not irrefutable proof that racism plagues the mortgage industry.


----------



## Seth Grimes

Driver79 said:


> You literally quoted a piece and tried to make the argument that FICO scores are racist. I'm just here to tell you ridiculous you sound.
> 
> But by all means, you are free to clear the air and explain what it is you were trying to say.


I've explained it already, as I said, Iron Man completely understood it. Not my fault if you can't grasp basic concepts.


----------



## Aedubya

You all talking about Ron Killings now? I'm confused


----------



## Driver79

Seth Grimes said:


> I've explained it already, as I said, Iron Man completely understood it. Not my fault if you can't grasp basic concepts.


----------



## Driver79

RapShepard said:


> This is you
> 
> 
> 
> This is also you below


And once again you are cowering behind your ridiculous logic because you know you cannot refute the arguments at hand. An isolated incident does not represent the world at large, and none of those lenders were ever found guilty of racial discrimination.

"A black homeowner with a low credit score wasn't given an ideal interest rate... is this racism!?!?"










"My favorite black wrestler was never given a proper main event run... is this racism!?!?!?"











^ you


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> And once again you are cowering behind your ridiculous logic because you know you cannot refute the arguments at hand. An isolated incident does not represent the world at large, and none of those lenders were ever found guilty of racial discrimination.
> 
> "A black homeowner with a low credit score wasn't given an ideal interest rate... is this racism!?!?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "My favorite black wrestler was never given a proper main event run... is this racism!?!?!?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ you


Who's my favorite black wrestler that didn't get a main event run? 

Also this is you



Driver79 said:


> Any black person with a qualifying credit score and a qualifying verifiable income can get a loan from any lender and purchase property anywhere in the united states.
> 
> I know you would much rather believe the world is against you, but facts are a funny thing.


This is also you below



Driver79 said:


> A bank getting in trouble for *Racial discrimination in lending* is not irrefutable proof that racism plagues the mortgage industry.
> 
> Just because banks are settling for millions upon millions of dollars for racial discrimination, doesn't mean there's discrimination in lending. Just because the government is investigating banks for racial discrimination in lending, that doesn't mean anything.


Look at you just ignoring facts


----------



## Driver79

@RapShepard

An isolated incident involving a small number of people may or may not have been attributed to racial discrimination. It's impossible to say because there were borrowers of all colors and nobody was found guilty.

But for the sake of our argument, let's assume that it was racism. Let's assume these lenders and these brokers just wanted to punish a bunch of black and brown people. It would still represent only a small and ignorable fraction of the entire mortgage lending practice. By and large, no one is being discriminated against. There is only one color that matters and that is green.

Are you going to worry about the 1% that is negative or the 99% that is positive?


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> @RapShepard
> 
> An isolated incident involving a small number of people may or may not have been attributed to racial discrimination. It's impossible to say because there were borrowers of all colors and nobody was found guilty.
> 
> But for the sake of our argument, let's assume that it was racism. Let's assume these lenders and these brokers just wanted to punish a bunch of black and brown people. It would still represent only a small and ignorable fraction of the entire mortgage lending practice. By and large, no one is being discriminated against. There is only one color that matters and that is green.
> 
> Are you going to worry about the 1% that is negative or the 99% that is positive?











Racial discrimination in mortgage market persistent over last four decades


Racial discrimination in mortgage market persistent over last four decades




news.northwestern.edu






“For example, in about 10% audits in which a white and an African-American auditor were sent to apply for the same unit after 2005, the white auditor was recommended more units than the African-American auditor. These trends hold in both the large HUD (Housing and Urban Development)-sponsored housing audits, which others have examined with similar findings to us, and in smaller correspondence studies.”

[/B]In the mortgage market the researchers found that racial gaps in loan denial have declined only slightly, and racial gaps in mortgage cost have not declined at all, suggesting persistent racial discrimination. Black and Hispanic borrowers are more likely to be rejected when they apply for a loan and are more likely to receive a high-cost mortgage.[/b]

“It was distressing to find no evidence of reduced discrimination in the mortgage market over the last 35 years,” said Quillian, also a faculty fellow with the University’s Institute for Policy Research. “Discrimination in the mortgage market makes it more difficult for minority households to build wealth through housing, contributing to racial wealth gaps. Discrimination in the housing market increases housing insecurity for minority households and contributes to persistent neighborhood segregation. These results help account for why black homeownership has not increased over the last 35 years.”

*The reduction in the most exclusionary forms of housing discrimination suggests that in most cases discrimination will not block persistent efforts by black or Hispanic households to move into white or affluent neighborhoods. 

“We believe that more subtle forms of discrimination will steer households with weaker neighborhood preferences toward own-race neighborhoods, helping to maintain residential segregation,” Quillian said.*


*_*

Also again who is my favorite black wrestler that didn't get a main event run and again


This is you



Driver79 said:


> Any black person with a qualifying credit score and a qualifying verifiable income can get a loan from any lender and purchase property anywhere in the united states.
> 
> I know you would much rather believe the world is against you, but facts are a funny thing.


This is also you below



Driver79 said:


> A bank getting in trouble for *Racial discrimination in lending* is not irrefutable proof that racism plagues the mortgage industry.


----------



## Driver79

@RapShepard you are literally just quoting some thinkpiece from some black liberal arts major. The writer of that article came up in entertainment and media and doubles as a freelance blogger. She is not a finance expert and she has not spent a single moment of her life working in finance. Here is her linkedin:










This woman knows nothing about business and nothing about business practices. She was an intern at BET and People Magazine. She is an editor and a writer. She is a content creator. She benefits from talking about diversity and the victimization of black people. 

What's interesting is that you accuse me of just spewing talking points, yet you're the only one who's literally repeating someone else's thoughts and talking points.


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> @RapShepard you are literally just quoting some thinkpiece from some black liberal arts major. The writer of that article came up in entertainment and media and doubles as a freelance blogger. She is not a finance expert and she has not spent a single moment of her life working in finance. Here is her linkedin:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This woman knows nothing about business and nothing about business practices. She was an intern at BET and People Magazine. She is an editor and a writer. She is a content creator. She benefits from talking about diversity and the victimization of black people.
> 
> What's interesting is that you accuse me of just spewing talking points, yet you're the only one who's literally repeating someone else's thoughts and talking points.


Disprove her with facts 









Racial discrimination in mortgage market persistent over last four decades


Racial discrimination in mortgage market persistent over last four decades




news.northwestern.edu






“For example, in about 10% audits in which a white and an African-American auditor were sent to apply for the same unit after 2005, the white auditor was recommended more units than the African-American auditor. These trends hold in both the large HUD (Housing and Urban Development)-sponsored housing audits, which others have examined with similar findings to us, and in smaller correspondence studies.”

[/B]In the mortgage market the researchers found that racial gaps in loan denial have declined only slightly, and racial gaps in mortgage cost have not declined at all, suggesting persistent racial discrimination. Black and Hispanic borrowers are more likely to be rejected when they apply for a loan and are more likely to receive a high-cost mortgage.[/b]

“It was distressing to find no evidence of reduced discrimination in the mortgage market over the last 35 years,” said Quillian, also a faculty fellow with the University’s Institute for Policy Research. “Discrimination in the mortgage market makes it more difficult for minority households to build wealth through housing, contributing to racial wealth gaps. Discrimination in the housing market increases housing insecurity for minority households and contributes to persistent neighborhood segregation. These results help account for why black homeownership has not increased over the last 35 years.”

*The reduction in the most exclusionary forms of housing discrimination suggests that in most cases discrimination will not block persistent efforts by black or Hispanic households to move into white or affluent neighborhoods. 

“We believe that more subtle forms of discrimination will steer households with weaker neighborhood preferences toward own-race neighborhoods, helping to maintain residential segregation,” Quillian said.*


*_*

Also again who is my favorite black wrestler that didn't get a main event run and again


This is you



Driver79 said:


> Any black person with a qualifying credit score and a qualifying verifiable income can get a loan from any lender and purchase property anywhere in the united states.
> 
> I know you would much rather believe the world is against you, but facts are a funny thing.


This is also you below



Driver79 said:


> A bank getting in trouble for *Racial discrimination in lending* is not irrefutable proof that racism plagues the mortgage industry.


----------



## Seth Grimes

Driver79 said:


>


Sure mr I've worked in the field for 15 years but don't know a basic concept like traditional credit score lmao


----------



## Driver79

@RapShepard I give up. You are clearly not going to give an inch no matter how many times you are made to look foolish. You are clearly a brainwashed hyper liberal. You would probably buy Kamala Harris's worn panties for a small fee.



Seth Grimes said:


> Sure mr I've worked in the field for 15 years but don't know a basic concept like traditional credit score lmao


Why don't you explain it to me then. Explain to me how lenders using traditional credit scores as a criteria is racist.


----------



## Dr. Middy

I don't know why you argue with this dude. You'd have more fun sticking your hand in boiling water.


----------



## RapShepard

Driver79 said:


> @RapShepard you are literally just quoting some thinkpiece from some black liberal arts major. The writer of that article came up in entertainment and media and doubles as a freelance blogger. She is not a finance expert and she has not spent a single moment of her life working in finance. Here is her linkedin:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This woman knows nothing about business and nothing about business practices. She was an intern at BET and People Magazine. She is an editor and a writer. She is a content creator. She benefits from talking about diversity and the victimization of black people.
> 
> What's interesting is that you accuse me of just spewing talking points, yet you're the only one who's literally repeating someone else's thoughts and talking points.


Above is you

Below is me



RapShepard said:


> Disprove her with facts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Racial discrimination in mortgage market persistent over last four decades
> 
> 
> Racial discrimination in mortgage market persistent over last four decades
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.northwestern.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also again who is my favorite black wrestler that didn't get a main event run and again


And now this is you



Driver79 said:


> @RapShepard I give up. You are clearly not going to give an inch no matter how many times you are made to look foolish. You are clearly a brainwashed hyper liberal. You would probably buy Kamala Harris's worn panties for a small fee.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you explain it to me then. Explain to me how lenders using traditional credit scores as a criteria is racist.


So you can't disprove her with facts


----------



## DUD

For anybody that still cares about the original topic of conversation, Mark Henry did a great piece on Busted Open this week about Diversity in AEW.


----------



## Rhetro

Both posters are insufferable to read in this thread imo


----------



## Seth Grimes

Driver79 said:


> @RapShepard I give up. You are clearly not going to give an inch no matter how many times you are made to look foolish. You are clearly a brainwashed hyper liberal. You would probably buy Kamala Harris's worn panties for a small fee.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you explain it to me then. Explain to me how lenders using traditional credit scores as a criteria is racist.


I quite literally have already. It doesn't need to be "racist" to still hurt black people more than other groups. This is systemic racism, I really hope I shouldn't need to explain that to you.









Bank of America to Pay $335 Million Settlement in Fair Lending Case


Bank of America has agreed to pay $335 million to resolve allegations that its Countrywide unit engaged in a widespread pattern of discrimination against qualified African-American and Hispanic borrowers.




www.foxnews.com





"According to the DOJ's complaint, Countrywide charged over 200,000 African-American and Hispanic borrowers higher fees and interest rates than non-Hispanic white borrowers *with a similar credit profile*".

It's from 15-20 years ago, and I'd say that isn't that long enough, the same people who were fucked over by that are likely still feeling the effects of it.

"For instance, traditional banks are less likely than payday loan sellers to place branches in neighborhoods populated mainly by people of color. Payday lenders don’t report timely payments, so they can only damage credit."

I understand the credit score concept now. Is the distinction here basically the difference in credit risk when going through traditional banks vs payday lenders? And black people are more likely to use payday lenders because traditional banks open less branches in poorer neighbourhoods, thus leaving gaps for payday lenders to disproportionately fill in poorer neighbourhoods?

It makes sense for a loan decision to take into consideration a person who has a history of requiring debt collectors. But what you're saying is black people are more likely to use payday lenders and are therefore at greater risk of harming their credit score even though in actuality they weren't less dependable at paying back the credit?

Rather than having a racial component, I believe this just comes back to the pre-existing disadvantages concept.

Traditional credit is where mortgage lenders and banks report positives to the actual credit companies themselves, whereas non-traditional credit is things like payday loans, where they won't report positives, but will definitely report negatives.

It's the opposite of that which is the problem. In your example, they both get reported negatively to the bank. But in an example where they both pay it back on time, only the traditional lender will get a + on their score, whereas the payday lender won't get anything.

Yeah I agree, that many problems that we actually say solely effect the black community are often times just class problems, or male problems. But there is definitely parts of it down to race, because they're ignoring where they are at in the system, and ignoring that is it harder for them from the very start. Like I said before, I wouldn't call it racist, but if it's unfairly impacting one group over another then ofc something should be done about it.

I'd say the racial component is ignoring the fact that a lot of black people will have pre-existing disadvantages. In the same way that if we made the lending system about strength, and women were just told to get stronger if they wanted mortgages.


Literally just copy and pasted things that I, and Iron Man said, cause you aren't capable of reading.


----------



## Ger

Just saw 1.275 postings in this thead about Big Swole within 8 days. On the front page only two sticky threads and the JimCornette thread got more posting. If people care so much, maybe Tony had better kept her!


----------



## Driver79

Seth Grimes said:


> Literally just copy and pasted things that I, and Iron Man said, cause you aren't capable of reading.


Here is the excerpt you quoted and your own words that followed:

*___*
_"They require lenders to use a particular credit scoring algorithm, “Classic FICO,” to determine whether an applicant meets the minimum threshold to be considered for a conventional mortgage in the first place, currently a score of 620. Launched more than 15 years ago based on data from the 1990s, Classic FICO is widely considered detrimental to people of color because it rewards traditional credit, to which they have less access than white Americans. It doesn’t consider, among other things, on-time payments for rent, utilities, and cellphone bills — but will lower people’s scores if they get behind on those bills and sent to debt collectors."_

*You can see that it definitely would hurt them. Of course this is gonna hurt anyone who comes from a poor family, which in America is more-so black people. 
___*


I hate to break it to you, but when someone is behind on their bills and is being hounded by debt collectors... that person is not going to be an ideal candidate for a mortgage. Nothing about being black says you have to be behind on your bills. 

Now you can argue that there are more poor black people per capita, but even then it wouldn't be a racist policy because race isn't being taken into account. It has nothing to do with the color of their skin and everything to do with their level of risk. 

So yea... none of that makes any sense. AT ALL.


----------



## Cult03

Ger said:


> Just saw 1.275 postings in this thead about Big Swole within 8 days. On the front page only two sticky threads and the JimCornette thread got more posting. If people care so much, maybe Tony had better kept her!


Barely any of it was about Swole or about wrestling at all. Disappointing really


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Ger said:


> Just saw 1.275 postings in this thead about Big Swole within 8 days. On the front page only two sticky threads and the JimCornette thread got more posting. If people care so much, maybe Tony had better kept her!


Even cornette agreed swole is in the wrong LMFAO!!!

“In all honesty, the problem basically is that this girl was not a good wrestler. And got more chances to be not a good wrestler than she should’ve got. And then comes out and says, ‘Well, it’s not diverse enough and there’s no structure.’
Unless they started a wrestling training program… Oh, they’ve got one! I guess it was available to her. Maybe she didn’t go to it. I’m not saying the Nightmare Factory could perpetrate miracles, but again. You know, there’s a lot of, as Tony said, black and brown and all of the other kind of color people in the rainbow there. And almost nobody’s been released. And, it’s not like it’s new news that their women’s division has been booked like you f*ckin’ took everybodys name, wrote it down on a piece of paper, and shoved it into a f*ckin’ blender. But that wouldn’t have made Big Swole a good wrestler if it hadn’t.
So, this is a heel program, I think. You’ve got her complaining because she’s complaining, and you’ve got him going off the deep end on Twitter.”


*lio rush has also changed his tune and in support of Tony,so is Will Hobbs, mark henry, shawn dean.....*

*basically Swole is fucking stupid and got embarrassed by TK because of her own stupid mouth LMFAO FUCK HER!*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

On diversity - MJF bodies a guy after he had a go at him for ‘excelling while white’ basically


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479954687935852547


----------



## $Dolladrew$

LifeInCattleClass said:


> On diversity - MJF bodies a guy
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479954687935852547


Yeah theres no fucking diversity issue.....I wasn't as harsh originally but I've looked at thing myself and there is plenty of diversity in AEW.

Like CORNETTE said she had way more opportunity to be a shitty wrestler then she deserved.......and like I've said multiple times ,they had an amicable split Tk thanked her for her time and it was fine.......then Swole drops the diversity bullshit and uses her daughter as a reason why she didn't re sign.......when in reality TK didn't renew it. She gave her opinion on why she felt she left and the issues in the company, so TK shared his opinion on why they didnt renew her contract. 

Shoulda just shut the fuck up and kept it moving LMFAO


----------



## Seth Grimes

Driver79 said:


> Here is the excerpt you quoted and your own words that followed:
> 
> *___*
> _"They require lenders to use a particular credit scoring algorithm, “Classic FICO,” to determine whether an applicant meets the minimum threshold to be considered for a conventional mortgage in the first place, currently a score of 620. Launched more than 15 years ago based on data from the 1990s, Classic FICO is widely considered detrimental to people of color because it rewards traditional credit, to which they have less access than white Americans. It doesn’t consider, among other things, on-time payments for rent, utilities, and cellphone bills — but will lower people’s scores if they get behind on those bills and sent to debt collectors."_
> 
> *You can see that it definitely would hurt them. Of course this is gonna hurt anyone who comes from a poor family, which in America is more-so black people.
> ___*
> 
> 
> I hate to break it to you, but when someone is behind on their bills and is being hounded by debt collectors... that person is not going to be an ideal candidate for a mortgage. Nothing about being black says you have to be behind on your bills.
> 
> Now you can argue that there are more poor black people per capita, but even then it wouldn't be a racist policy because race isn't being taken into account. It has nothing to do with the color of their skin and everything to do with their level of risk.
> 
> So yea... none of that makes any sense. AT ALL.


Traditional credit is where mortgage lenders and banks report positives to the actual credit companies themselves, whereas non-traditional credit is things like payday loans, where they won't report positives, but will definitely report negatives. 

It's the opposite of that which is the problem. In your example, they both get reported negatively to the bank. But in an example where they both pay it back on time, only the traditional lender will get a + on their score, whereas the payday lender won't get anything. 

But there is definitely parts of it down to race, because they're ignoring where they are at in the system, and ignoring that is it harder for them from the very start. Like I said before, I wouldn't call it racist, but if it's unfairly impacting one group over another then ofc something should be done about it. 

I'd say the racial component is ignoring the fact that a lot of black people will have pre-existing disadvantages. In the same way that if we made the lending system about strength, and women were just told to get stronger if they wanted mortgages. 

PLEASE, PLEASE LEARN TO READ, MY GOD.


----------



## Kopros_The_Great

Ger said:


> Just saw 1.275 postings in this thead about Big Swole within 8 days. On the front page only two sticky threads and the JimCornette thread got more posting. If people care so much, maybe Tony had better kept her!


This hasn't been about Swole for something like the last 1000 posts though


----------



## Driver79

Seth Grimes said:


> Traditional credit is where mortgage lenders and banks report positives to the actual credit companies themselves, whereas non-traditional credit is things like payday loans, where they won't report positives, but will definitely report negatives.
> 
> It's the opposite of that which is the problem. In your example, they both get reported negatively to the bank. But in an example where they both pay it back on time, only the traditional lender will get a + on their score, whereas the payday lender won't get anything.
> 
> But there is definitely parts of it down to race, because they're ignoring where they are at in the system, and ignoring that is it harder for them from the very start. Like I said before, I wouldn't call it racist, but if it's unfairly impacting one group over another then ofc something should be done about it.
> 
> I'd say the racial component is ignoring the fact that a lot of black people will have pre-existing disadvantages. In the same way that if we made the lending system about strength, and women were just told to get stronger if they wanted mortgages.
> 
> PLEASE, PLEASE LEARN TO READ, MY GOD.


"Hey Seth Grimes my name is Darrius and I have 590 credit score, I have multiple outstanding balances and I only have a verifiable income of $65k a year. But hey I always pay back my predatory high interest payday loans... can you loan me $250k for my house?"

1. Are you comfortable giving Darrius a mortgage? Are you confident he can pay it back?

2. Are you going to lend Darrius the $250k under the exact terms and conditions as you would a lower risk borrower? Are you going to offer the exact same interest rate?

3. Do you take the color of his skin into consideration? Do you even care? Are you worried that by not approving the loan you are contributing to the discrimination and unfair treatment of (insert group here)?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

devil's advocate - if race doesn't play a part, they should remove the option from the application forms

just by it having a space, means it plays a part - however big or small


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

The Kenny thread got closed 4 pages in but this thread where three people have been engaged in the same circular argument for like sixty pages(hyperbole. I didn't read the whole thread)


----------



## shandcraig

MonkasaurusRex said:


> The Kenny thread got closed 4 pages in but this thread where three people have been engaged in the same circular argument for like sixty pages(hyperbole. I didn't read the whole thread)


The children of the forum must fight to the bitter end. Rest of us don't care


----------



## Seth Grimes

Driver79 said:


> "Hey Seth Grimes my name is Darrius and I have 590 credit score, I have multiple outstanding balances and I only have a verifiable income of $65k a year. But hey I always pay back my predatory high interest payday loans... can you loan me $250k for my house?"
> 
> 1. Are you comfortable giving Darrius a mortgage? Are you confident he can pay it back?
> 
> 2. Are you going to lend Darrius the $250k under the exact terms and conditions as you would a lower risk borrower? Are you going to offer the exact same interest rate?
> 
> 3. Do you take the color of his skin into consideration? Do you even care? Are you worried that by not approving the loan you are contributing to the discrimination and unfair treatment of (insert group here)?


This is a pointless question. I am NOT saying that each individual person is a racist, I am saying the SYSTEMS PUT IN PLACE IGNORE RACE. Fuck me you are either obtuse, or purposely ignoring everything I'm saying so that you aren't wrong. Now you're gonna answer some direct q's cause I'm sick of your weaselling. 

1. Is it fair to have a system that unfairly impacts one group over another, especially when it is YOUR group that put them there in the first place.
2. Would you call it sexist if you made loans about strength and women couldn't get mortgages. Would you just say, "just get stronger if you want a mortgage". 
3. Do you understand that payday loans are non-traditional, and therefore do not report positive repayments back to the credit company. So in your little example, Darrius will say "well I have paid back 99% of my loans on time, just like Randall over there, but because he lives in a richer area where they put actual banks, traditional credit helps them, as opposed to me only having payday lenders around me that only report negatives." Is it fair to treat them the same, when they have the same rates of giving back money on time, just that one of them is forced to use non-traditional credit lender?


----------



## Driver79

Seth Grimes said:


> I am saying the SYSTEMS PUT IN PLACE IGNORE RACE.


This was the goal genius, and yet you're still here complaining. Can I ask why this is supposed to be a bad thing? Weren't you liberals fawning for a colorblind society just a few years back?

Are you so high and mighty that you are any different? Are you going to lend money to someone that has a very low chance of being able to pay you back? Probably not right? Okay well the banks aren't any different. The lending system couldn't survive if the banks were forced to hand out loans to *everyone*.

If the banks were forced to lower the standards and lend money to certain groups, the only way they could do it is by raising the interest rates and fees on everybody else. So you are basically putting it out there that if you want to buy a house in this country, you must also chip in and help some less fortunate person buy a house also. If you don't want to then it's because you're greedy, selfish and racist and you ignore the greater good.











Not gonna even answer your questions because what's the point.


----------



## Seth Grimes

Driver79 said:


> This was the goal genius, and yet you're still here complaining. Can I ask why this is supposed to be a bad thing? Weren't you liberals fawning for a colorblind society just a few years back?
> 
> Are you so high and mighty that you are any different? Are you going to lend money to someone that has a very low chance of being able to pay you back? Probably not right? Okay well the banks aren't any different. The lending system couldn't survive if the banks were forced to hand out loans to *everyone*.
> 
> If the banks were forced to lower the standards and lend money to certain groups, the only way they could do it is by raising the interest rates and fees on everybody else. So you are basically putting it out there that if you want to buy a house in this country, you must also chip in and help some less fortunate person buy a house also. If you don't want to then it's because you're greedy, selfish and racist and you ignore the greater good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not gonna even answer your questions because what's the point.


The point of answering the questions is to get somewhere with this discussion, but clearly you're just a typical ideologue who isn't capable of discussion, you only want to "own duh libs". You know answering my questions will be difficult, because you know you're going to have to cede. Instead of wasting everyone's time pretending to be having a good faith discussion, why don't you just say from the very beginning "I don't care about other people, therefore I don't care about things that negatively impact whole groups of people".


----------



## Driver79

Seth Grimes said:


> The point of answering the questions is to get somewhere with this discussion, but clearly you're just a typical ideologue who isn't capable of discussion, you only want to "own duh libs". You know answering my questions will be difficult, because you know you're going to have to cede. Instead of wasting everyone's time pretending to be having a good faith discussion, why don't you just say from the very beginning "I don't care about other people, therefore I don't care about things that negatively impact whole groups of people".


I don't have to "own the libs", you do that to yourself with your own kindergarten logic. How can we have a good faith discussion if you don't even have the guts to be honest? Do you even care about fairness at all?

There are already government backed FHA loans in place that help "low income" first time home buyers that we pay for with our own taxes if they ever belly up. How is that not enough? What more can we possibly do? You're basically arguing here that private lenders should just overlook someone's financial standing if they are black because you believe being black means being handicapped. Sorry but life is not that simple.


----------



## Seth Grimes

Driver79 said:


> I don't have to "own the libs", you do that to yourself with your own kindergarten logic. How can we have a good faith discussion if you don't even have the guts to be honest? Do you even care about fairness at all?
> 
> There are already government backed FHA loans in place that help "low income" first time home buyers that we pay for with our own taxes if they ever belly up. How is that not enough? What more can we possibly do? You're basically arguing here that private lenders should just overlook someone's financial standing if they are black because you believe being black means being handicapped. Sorry but life is not that simple.


You really don't get to claim good faith discussion when people have to repeat things multiple times because you straight up refuse to actually intake what people say to you. Iron Man got it in one try, you are still here arguing because you're an ideologue and you just can't be wrong can you. You couldn't answer my questions, so don't even bother to reply until you can do that.


----------



## Driver79

Seth Grimes said:


> You really don't get to claim good faith discussion when people have to repeat things multiple times because you straight up refuse to actually intake what people say to you. Iron Man got it in one try, you are still here arguing because you're an ideologue and you just can't be wrong can you. You couldn't answer my questions, so don't even bother to reply until you can do that.


LOL one of your questions equated black people being unable to pay their bills on time with women being unable to possess strength. As if black people are genetically predisposed to having bad credit. 

Please.


----------



## Strike Force

Seth Grimes said:


> You really don't get to claim good faith discussion when people have to repeat things multiple times because you straight up refuse to actually intake what people say to you. Iron Man got it in one try, you are still here arguing because you're an ideologue and you just can't be wrong can you. You couldn't answer my questions, so don't even bother to reply until you can do that.


Don't bother with that Driver character. He's an anti-intellectual who has no idea how to have a civil debate. He deflects, refuses to grant points, shifts the topic seemingly at random, misattributes arguments, and basically makes every mistake reserved for the very worst and least effective debaters. Talking with him is a painful process, so I've stopped bothering. He's a lost cause.


----------



## Driver79

Strike Force said:


> Don't bother with that Driver character. He's an anti-intellectual who has no idea how to have a civil debate. He deflects, refuses to grant points, shifts the topic seemingly at random, misattributes arguments, and basically makes every mistake reserved for the very worst and least effective debaters. Talking with him is a painful process, so I've stopped bothering. He's a lost cause.


Still ass blasted from our other discussion I see.


----------



## Strike Force

Driver79 said:


> Still ass blasted from our other discussion I see.


You want to do what to my ass? Hey, it’s 2022. Live your life, there, fancy boy.


----------



## AthleticGirth

So it seems the main loser in the fallout from this nonsensical drama is Lio Rush, whose push has been given to Jay Lethal, who I have to say is doing a really good job with it and has managed to get me excited about an FTW title match. 

Lio's learnt sod all from that tactless tweet he made after Emma was fired from the E, even though it almost torpedoed his career. To just reflex attack your boss and the company you work for on social media speaks volumes about his temperament and maturity. Wouldn't be surprised if he's gone soon.


----------

