# Why is Kenny Omega so highly rated?



## CenaBoy4Life (Jul 31, 2013)

Dave Meltzer convinced his army of geeks the bucks and omega were super talented and the best thing ever. 

Omega is a worse buddy murphy and the bucks are the most overrated tag team ever and probably killed the division with their style.


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## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

Kentucky34 said:


> It's because he worked for a long time in Japan isn't it?


He's rated high because of his matches in New Japan with Kazuchika Okada, *Tetsuya Naito, and Hirooki Goto. All stellar stuff. *



> is he a great worker? He's good, not great. Certainly not in the same league as Bryan or Gargano.


Based on his work in New Japan and his work in AEW he's way past Gargano and Bryan.



> Is he good on the mic? Not really.


He's solid on the mic. He can cut some very good promos when the storyline calls for it.



> Is his character work good? Pretty standard stuff really.


I enjoyed his character work as "The Cleaner" in New Japan and I'm enjoying his work as the "Belt collector" in AEW.



> Can he draw? The numbers say no.


Nobody is drawing these days so this is kind of irrelevant.



> Time for AEW to wise up and demote him to the mid card. At least if they want to retain their audience and possibly grow it.


AEW is going to retain their audience because the very people who supported the company from the start tune in to see Kenny Omega, the Young bucks , Cody, etc. The foundation of the company is built on those names.


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## Whoanma (Apr 5, 2016)




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## Kentucky34 (Sep 30, 2015)

Blaze2k2 said:


> He's rated high because of his matches in New Japan with Kazuchika Okada, *Tetsuya Naito, and Hirooki Goto. All stellar stuff. *
> 
> 
> 
> Based on his work in New Japan and his work in AEW he's way past Gargano and Bryan.


He really isn't.


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## DZ Crew (Sep 26, 2016)

I've never understood the hype. Imo he's one of the most overrated guys out there. While he's not terrible in ring, to me he's nothing special. Guys like Bryan, Rollins or Cesaro are all much better workers. I've yet to hear him cut a promo that was above average and while he's had some good matches against guys like Pac, to me he's nothing special.


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Here is my opinion:


He can work engaging matches, even if he's not the traditional American style of wrestler many are accustomed to. Match against Fenix was fantastic, the Moxley match was outstanding and only suffered from the overbooking AEW leans on too much (Good Brothers run-in) and the aftermath which was out of his control.
He's versatile and adaptable. He's had great main events in Japan that pleased the Japanese fans. He had an amazing match in Mexico with Laredo Kid last year that was the best match at Triplemania. And he's had great matches in America that have stolen the show. It takes a certain talent to be able to do that, considering how different the wrestling styles and cultures are. I've seen him do crazy sprints and 60 minute epics.
His series with Okada was probably the best I've ever seen besides maybe the Misawa vs. Kawada matches in the 90s. They felt like a whole new level of pro wrestling in terms of athleticism and the complexity of sequences. Some don't like certain aspects of this, but when you look at the consensus, most agree that Okada vs. Omega is one of the GOAT feuds.

On the flip side, his promo skills are not the best. To be honest, he spent much of his career in Japan so didn't have to really develop his promo skills. They have improved quite a lot lately, but it's good that he has Callis.

A number of purists criticise him for the style he works, the 'video game' modern style. It's all subjective of course, but Steve Austin has waxed lyrical about him. This is what Austin said and surely he knows more about ring psychology and such than us.

"He's edgy, he can work his ass off, he lays his s*** in. Everything looks good. His psychology is off the charts. When I watch that guy, I'm like 'Hey man. When is this guy having another high profile match because I wanna watch it'."

In an interview with Forbes days ago, Kurt Angle said Omega is a dream opponent of his.

CM Punk said he'd like to wrestle Kenny Omega if he ever returned to the ring.

Edge said on his podcast with Christian that Omega vs. Okada got him back into wrestling after he burnt out.

Mick Foley called Omega vs. Okada one of the best matches of all time. "This is one of the greatest matches I have ever seen. If the Dynamite Kid vs Tiger Mask and Flair vs Steamboat classics had a baby, it's name would be Omega vs Okada. "

Foley also said: "Kenny Omega is out of this world. He might be the perfect combination of wrestler/sports entertainer in the business."

All these endorsements are telling of how he's regarded within the industry. These are guys who worked nothing like Omega (maybe a few similarities with Punk) who see greatness in him.

Guys like Bryan Danielson and Kenny Omega are often cited as the modern day talents wrestlers old and new want to face.


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## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

3venflow said:


> Here is my opinion:
> 
> 
> He can work engaging matches, even if he's not the traditional American style of wrestler many are accustomed to. Match against Fenix was fantastic, the Moxley match was outstanding and only suffered from the overbooking AEW leans on too much (Good Brothers run-in) and the aftermath which was out of his control.
> ...


Very well said!


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## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

Kentucky34 said:


> He really isn't.


He really is. His matches with Okada alone put him pass Gargano and Bryan. No match that I've ever seen out of Gargano or Bryan has matched that.


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## MarkyWhipwreck (Dec 20, 2014)

He had an all time in-ring run in 2016/17. He was at the helm of the best matches when NJPW was at it's hottest. Any match he participated in was must-see. Since that legendary run, he's been considered among the top workers in the world and rightfully so. He's one of the few guys I would trust to get a good match out of anybody. As far as the nuances of his ring work, he can sell (oversells at times), his strikes are extremely believable, his execution is top notch and he has a varied moveset. The guy is talented. 

Looking into his work outside of the ring. He has clear charisma and that's undeniable, I wouldn't consider him the most charismatic in the business but he has physical and verbal charisma and a great deal of it. His promo work is the weakest of his repertoire and even those aren't awful, his delivery is just extremely shaky and can come off as uncomfortable. His character work is fine and he has great mannerisms to feed off of.

I've been a major fan of his since he was a junior heavyweight champion in NJPW and have always considered him one of the best on the planet.


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## P Thriller (Jan 6, 2016)

He's the epitome of AEW. Very good but overrated. Both can be true. I think he is great in the ring, like 8.5/10. On the mic he is like 7/10. So he's really good. Everything in AEW is overrated but That's because the dirtsheets can't seem to be objective about them. Doesn't mean I don't really like the show though


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## Kentucky34 (Sep 30, 2015)

Blaze2k2 said:


> He really is. His matches with Okada alone put him pass Gargano and Bryan. No match that I've ever seen out of Gargano or Bryan has matched that.


Did you not see Gargano's matches with Cole and Ciampa? 

Bryan was involved in the hottest angle of the 2010s. More relevant than anything Omega has ever done.


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## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

It's bizarre. He's not a great worker, not a great talker. But Dave Meltzer convinced the smarks that he's amazing.


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## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

Kentucky34 said:


> Did you not see Gargano's matches with Cole and Ciampa?


I've seen his matches with Cole and Ciampa and they're not touching Omega's matches with Okada and Naito. Not even close. 



> Bryan was involved in the hottest angle of the 2010s. More relevant than anything Omega has ever done.


I couldn't give two shits about angles we're talking about match quality and Bryan isn't on Omega's level. The only guy in WWE that can compare to Omega in regard to match quality is AJ Styles.


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## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

Opinions are funny things. I had never heard of omega pre AEW, but have been so impressed with him. Huge fan.


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## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

The XL 2 said:


> It's bizarre. He's not a great worker, not a great talker. But Dave Meltzer convinced the smarks that he's amazing.


Meltzer doesn't need to convince anybody of anything. I've been following wrestling long enough to know what great work is and Omega fits the bill. What's happened here is you got snobbish American wrestling fans who think the world revolves around WWE and anything that is considered great work has to meet up to so-called WWE standards. Fuck all that.


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## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

Blaze2k2 said:


> Meltzer doesn't need to convince anybody of anything. I've been following wrestling long enough to know what great work is and Omega fits the bill. What's happened here is you got snobbish American wrestling fans who think the world revolves around WWE and anything that is considered great work has to meet up to so-called WWE standards. Fuck all that.


What does Omega do great? He doesn't have great psychology. He's not great at working a crowd. Not a great seller. His moveset isn't amazing, his offense doesn't look great. He's not offensive or anything, he's not even bad. He's just not an all time great worker.


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## Botchy SinCara (Apr 24, 2013)

Only WWE marks would question this ..they don't believe anytime outside their bubble counts


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## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

The XL 2 said:


> What does Omega do great? He doesn't have great psychology.


His matches with Okada, Naito, Jericho, Goto, Fenix, etc say otherwise. 



> He's not great at working a crowd.


This isn't a requirement.



> Not a great seller.


He's solid enough.



> His moveset isn't amazing, his offense doesn't look great.


I think you need glasses 



> He's not offensive or anything, he's not even bad. He's just not an all time great worker.


WWE has brainwashed you into thinking that their criteria of what is great is the criteria and it's not.


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## toontownman (Jan 25, 2009)

I haven't seen much of his Japan stuff but I don't think he gets the rave reviews without substance. 

I seem more star potential in Hangman or even Lance Archer from a traditional WWE sense but as the poster above mentions, that is the conditioning factor!

I haven't been blown away with anything I have seen in AEW but I am also far from a die hard.


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## Ghost Lantern (Apr 11, 2012)

I like Omega, think he's pretty great.

Don't like some of his choices, but hey the guy is talented and creative.


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## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

In terms of in ring stuff he's pretty good but he's just not my type of wrestler, doesn't wrestle my style.


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## Upstart474 (May 13, 2018)

I like Kenny but think he should have gone to WWE instead of AEW.


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## the44boz (Apr 29, 2014)

Blaze2k2 said:


> He's rated high because of his matches in New Japan with Kazuchika Okada, *Tetsuya Naito, and Hirooki Goto. All stellar stuff. *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Meltzer is that you.


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## the44boz (Apr 29, 2014)

Botchy SinCara said:


> Only WWE marks would question this ..they don't believe anytime outside their bubble counts


I'm not a WWE mark. I've watched some of his stuff in AEW and there's nothing special about him. His matches in Japan were really good but some could argue his opponents carried him in those matches.


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## DZ Crew (Sep 26, 2016)

Blaze2k2 said:


> Meltzer doesn't need to convince anybody of anything. I've been following wrestling long enough to know what great work is and Omega fits the bill. What's happened here is you got snobbish American wrestling fans who think the world revolves around WWE and anything that is considered great work has to meet up to so-called WWE standards. Fuck all that.


In the words of the Dude; that's like your opinion man. You're entitled to yours but don't act like everyone who's not high on omega is a wwe snob. I feel Bryan could wrestle circles around Omega and draw 10 times the people, but that's my opinion. So don't assume everyone else is wrong simply because you claim to know what "great" work is. It's a subjective term.


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## Buhalovski (Jul 24, 2015)

Awful facial expressions, average promo skills, sometimes there's zero psichilogy in his matches... He's certainly not that bad but he's way way beyond all time greats.


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## JBLGOAT (Mar 24, 2014)

Every top guy is overrated but you need to pick one


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## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

Blaze2k2 said:


> His matches with Okada, Naito, Jericho, Goto, Fenix, etc say otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think so. It's funny that you talk about brainwashing when you let big Dave do the thinking for you.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

I had never seen him before Dynamite and what I saw of him I thought he was very talented early on. The mechanic is there, he is like a fish in water inside the ring, he does things very easily. He is not only agile but he can do stricking convincingly like his knees to the face and so forth. But I think he and the Bucks basically have the same issue is that they cannot help themselves with the spot fests and going crazy on aerials. It's like with any junkies and that is their drug of choice. If Omega would cut that out of his "repertoir" he would be what I consider a top wrestler. Like I said I was impressed early on but everytime I was pulling my hair out at some point in his matches thinking "when is this going to end?" and "why isn't it nobody selling?". You don't need ten knees to the head to beat someone. Just one. After a while I realised it became repetitive. 

He is highly touted because by what you see "the showmanship" in the ring, you clearly see that this guy can go, he is spectacular and how I think the environment in Japan probably helped hide his weaknesses.


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## justin waynes (Feb 8, 2020)

Kenny omega always have sucked .I never got the hype and he doesn't look like a star to me ,he is an awesome wrestler but still average and robotic to me,his mic work is 6/10 and yes the young bucks are a bit average too


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

He's highly rated because the hardcore bubble decided he was their new guy. Just like Bryan and Benoit before him, he's mildly overrated. He's the living personification of what's the hardcore fan consensus of the mid 2010s onward want.d Knees, high paced, is an admitted geek, references games and anime, does a bunch of moves, thinks wrestling is art. How could he not be the best going today with all that attached to him.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

RapShepard said:


> He's highly rated because the hardcore bubble decided he was their new guy. Just like Bryan and Benoit before him, he's mildly overrated. He's the living personification of what's the hardcore fan consensus of the mid 2010s onward want.d Knees, high paced, is an admitted geek, references games and anime, does a bunch of moves, thinks wrestling is art. How could he not be the best going today with all that attached to him.


Yea there was a point where with Benoit there was a lot of bandwagon fans jumping on. And I say that as someone whom Benoit was my favorite wrestler at a certain period when he was in WCW. I liked his skills, his edge, his intensity. But when he was in the WWE, there was a lot fakeness about the whole thing.


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## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Omega > Rollins jabroni ass. cry


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## Kentucky34 (Sep 30, 2015)

alex0816 said:


> Omega > Rollins jabroni ass. cry


Lol no.


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## sideon (Sep 18, 2008)

Botchy SinCara said:


> Only WWE marks would question this ..they don't believe anytime outside their bubble counts


His run as the top guy has given AEW some of their lowest ratings, but yes let's make this is about WWE marks SMH.


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## thorwold (Dec 19, 2015)

*It's because he worked for a long time in Japan isn't it?*
Well... They are better, and generally do have better matches from the bottom up, so that'd make sense.

*Is he a great worker? He's good, not great. Certainly not in the same league as Bryan or Gargano.*
He's not as good as Bryan, but not many are. I'd say he's pretty comparable to Gargano, but even then, that's one of the better guys around.

*Is he good on the mic? Not really.*
I don't think anyone suggests he is.

*Is his character work good? Pretty standard stuff really.*
Ditto

*Can he draw? The numbers say no.*
What numbers? His Global Wars tour with ROH went fantastically well, and their numbers were pretty much down the following year when he was not there. His AAA success was incredible too. He's a literal draw.


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## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

sideon said:


> His run as the top guy has given AEW some of their lowest ratings, but yes let's make this is about WWE marks SMH.


That's the typical response when someone doesn't like Omega. "You're a stupid WWE mark, what do you know?" 

Omega's reign as champion has been boring, the ratings haven't been good while he's been champion, and the belt would be much better off if you built up Brian Cage or Miro to be champion.


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## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

Botchy SinCara said:


> Only WWE marks would question this ..they don't believe anytime outside their bubble counts


That's the problem with bubbles, fans tend to use them as yardsticks to judge elements of wrestling within a very narrow definition, at worst they simply distrust any other sort of wrestling.


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## Kopros_The_Great (Jun 26, 2014)

alex0816 said:


> Omega > Rollins jabroni ass. cry


How is Seth Rollins any kind of standard? The guy is so fucking lame.


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## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

He is a draw. That's undeniable. That's why every company wants to work with him. He won the AAA championship because he was the biggest star. Impact is drooling to get Omega on their shows. He brings eyes to wherever he goes. I'm pretty sure if he was a free agent WWE would be begging him to join and throwing money at him. 

If you say he's not a good worker then I can't really trust your opinion on wrestling. He's had the greatest matches and more of them than anyone in the last decade. 

And no I'm not a Dave Meltzer fan, I've never listened to any of his podcasts or been on his website. So you can scratch that off the table. I don't give a fuck about Dave Meltzer.


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## CovidFan (Aug 19, 2020)

Blaze2k2 said:


> He really is. His matches with Okada alone put him pass Gargano and Bryan. No match that I've ever seen out of Gargano or Bryan has matched that.


Bryan's beat him multiple times with a series vs. someone. Bryan vs. Morishima, Bryan vs. KENTA, Bryan vs. Joe, and finally and most emphatically, Bryan vs. Nigel are all better than the entirety of Okada vs. Omega. Though I'd say Omega vs. Okada 1 was probably the best single match between all of those series. Match 2 (the draw) was total trash. And I don't even remember the match where Omega finally beat him which says something.

Anyways, Omega's fine. He definitely stands out among the AEW roster with his flash and physique.


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## jack121 (Sep 13, 2016)

The only thing Omega does well is wrestle. Omega is pretty good in the ring but he's certainly not the best in-ring performer in the world. 

He's not good on the mic, he has no charisma, his character sucks (generic heel champion). I just don't get the hype.


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## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

Upstart474 said:


> I like Kenny but think he should have gone to WWE instead of AEW.


I don't. He would only be watered down and end up becoming another Shinsuke Nakamura. Keep him far away from WWE as possible.


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## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

the44boz said:


> Meltzer is that you.


No, just somebody who watches wrestling outside of the WWE bubble.


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## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> He is a draw. That's undeniable. That's why every company wants to work with him. He won the AAA championship because he was the biggest star. Impact is drooling to get Omega on their shows. He brings eyes to wherever he goes. I'm pretty sure if he was a free agent WWE would be begging him to join and throwing money at him.
> 
> If you say he's not a good worker then I can't really trust your opinion on wrestling. He's had the greatest matches and more of them than anyone in the last decade.
> 
> And no I'm not a Dave Meltzer fan, I've never listened to any of his podcasts or been on his website. So you can scratch that off the table. I don't give a fuck about Dave Meltzer.


He's a good worker but being good in the ring doesn't mean anything when most people in the world are good wrestlers. He needs a character and something that makes him stand out, not much makes him stand out.

That weird anime character voice he does isn't amazing and his promos are average at best.


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## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

DZ Crew said:


> In the words of the Dude; that's like your opinion man. You're entitled to yours but don't act like everyone who's not high on omega is a wwe snob. [l Bryan could wrestle circles around Omega and draw 10 times the people, but that's my opinion. So don't assume everyone else is wrong simply because you claim to know what "great" work is. It's a subjective term.


Of course it's my opinion. I just can't take anybody's opinion serious who claims to know what great work is but only watches WWE or American wrestling. That's like me saying I know what great martial arts is but I only studied Judo.


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## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

The XL 2 said:


> I don't think so. It's funny that you talk about brainwashing when you let big Dave do the thinking for you.


And apparently Cornette is doing the thinking for you.


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

I think where Kenny is concerned. He's highly rated by people who never lived through the 90s.

Ive watched Omega/Okada and all the NJPW stuff, I've seen his AEW matches and to be honest, his style was done a million times better 20 years ago. 

He's a typical AEW fighter, highly choreographed, lots of pauses, minimal selling, no engagement. Meltzer loves all that shit, but the numbers don't lie. 

I think he was highly overrated from his time in NJPW and people thought he was going to be the 2nd coming of Christ, but he's not even as good as guys like AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan etc. WWE got a lucky break by not pursuing him further.


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

I questioned it also until I saw him in person. Then I understood. He is the best I’ve ever seen, in person.


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## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

I have no fucking idea.

I usually find a way to mark for all Canadian wrestlers. Even Lance Storm.. but I just can't with Kenny. I'll never forget rushing to the torrent sites on 1/5 the day after Omega v Okada to go watch what was supposed to be the greatest Wrestling match ever.. and I was bored out of my mind... it. was. so. long. I actually found myself more into the Naito vs Tanahashi match, they actually looked like they had a wrestling match, which wasn't talked about as much. Since then, I've seen his long matches get more and more praise and I continue to be bored out of my mind. They're literally all the same and don't look like two guys trying to have a fight. He throws it in your face that wrestling's fake.

I really think his title reign is what convinced Vince that AEW would never be a threat. He was supposed to be AEW's xFactor. His title reign was supposed to take AEW to new heights. Given all the hype, he has been a massive flop. I keep seeing people say wait till he has this match with this person then XYZ will happen but then wouldn't that mean that they are the stars if they have to be the ones needed to cause people to care about Omega?


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## Generic WWE Guy (Nov 17, 2016)

I had never watched New Japan until Wrestle Kingdom 11 and that Main Event against Okada was simply the best match I've ever seen. Been a fan from there.


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## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Botchy SinCara said:


> Only WWE marks would question this ..they don't believe anytime outside their bubble counts


This is literally the most ironic post here. His segment averaged less than 700,000 people this week. Great wrestlers draw viewers, not stars from a Wrestling "journalist".


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## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Upstart474 said:


> I like Kenny but think he should have gone to WWE instead of AEW.


If he had gone that route, he would have been in AEW by now, anyway. How long do you think Vince would put up with the finger pointing or the voice in his promos?



Blaze2k2 said:


> I don't. He would only be watered down and end up becoming another Shinsuke Nakamura. Keep him far away from WWE as possible.


Right.. cuz God forbid he has a boss who tells him do not lay down in the ring and ask and receive a 69ing from another guy.


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

People always bring Meltzer into it, including the Cornette followers who pretty much parrot his opinions to the word (oh, the irony).

But what about Japanese companies, fan votes and zines that have no idea who Meltzer is?


2008 Japan Indie Awards MOTY (vs. Ibushi)
2010 Nikkan Sports Best Tag Team (w/ Ibushi)
2010 Weekly Pro Wrestling Best Tag Team (w/ Ibushi)
2010 Weekly Pro Wrestling MOTY (w/ Ibushi vs. Devitt & Taguchi)
2010 Tokyo Sports MOTY (w/ Ibushi vs. Devitt & Taguchi)
2012 Japan Indie Awards MOTY (vs. Ibushi)
2014 Japan Indie Awards MOTY (w/ Ibushi vs. Takeshita & Endo)
2016 NJPW Official Best Bout (vs. Naito)
2016 Nikkan Sports MOTY (vs. Naito)
2016 Weekly Pro Wrestling MOTY (vs. Naito)
2016 Tokyo Sports Technique Award
2016 Weekly Pro Wrestling Best Foreigner Award
2017 NJPW Official Best Bout (vs. Okada)
2017 Nikkan Sports MOTY (vs. Okada)
2017 Tokyo Sports MOTY (vs. Okada)
2017 Weekly Pro Wrestling MOTY (vs. Okada)
2017 NJPW MVP
2017 Weekly Pro Wrestling Best Foreigner Award
2018 Nikkan Sports MOTY (vs. Okada)
2018 Tokyo Sports MOTY (vs. Okada)
2018 Weekly Pro Wrestling Best Foreigner Award

Meanwhile, he worked _one_ match in Mexico last year...

- 2020 Mexico MOTY (vs. Laredo Kid) (150+ votes from lucha libre fans for Luchablog's Tapatia awards)

*B... but he was carried in Japan!*

Bullshit! You can't have such a deep catalogue of quality matches when you're 'carried' each time. If it was that easy, anyone could do it. Omega and Okada going 60 minutes wasn't a 'carry job'. You can't reach that level, for one hour, with only one person doing the work. Watch the G1 Climax where he was delivering night after night.

He also had great matches against Naito, Ishii, Goto, Tanahashi, Ibushi and Jericho in NJPW. Jesus, he even had an amazing match with Michael Elgin over there.

*He's yet to do it in America!*

Well, he actually has when given the proper chance. Kenny vs. PAC is still talked about as one of, if not the best match ever on Dynamite.

Kenny vs. Fenix was an excellent match and probably one of the better free TV matches this year so far.

He had what remains the best match in Dark history on the second episode against *JOEY JANELA*.

Kenny & Hangman vs. The Bucks is one of the best tag matches anywhere in the world in recent years.

Let's be honest, Kenny wasn't a featured singles wrestler until quite recently and given the chance, he has put on high quality matches. He's probably been involved in more of AEW's best matches than anyone else... and hasn't even scraped the surface yet. Think of what he might do with talents like Jungle Boy and Darby in time.

*He has no psychology and people didn't watch wrestling before 2010!*

The following old school greats + new school icons have either said Omega was in one of the best matches ever, is one of the greatest ever or that they want to wrestle him:


Steve Austin ("his psychology is off the charts!")
Kurt Angle
Mick Foley
Edge
CM Punk
Seth Rollins
There have probably been others too.

In the end, wrestling is subjective and a game of opinions. There is no absolute right and wrong. But in history, the concensus tends to be looked at and Omega will go down as one of the best wrestlers of the 2010s~2020s.


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## DZ Crew (Sep 26, 2016)

Blaze2k2 said:


> Of course it's my opinion. I just can't take anybody's opinion serious who claims to know what great work is but only watches WWE or American wrestling. That's like me saying I know what great martial arts is but I only studied Judo.


What constitutes great work is subjective though. It's also not fair to assume that people who don't like Omega don't know what good wrestling is or are a WWE mark. I've watched his work in Japan and AEW and while he's had some great matches he just doesn't do it for me and i feel he's overrated. For some people that's not their style of wrestling or that guy or girl isn't for them. You can't fault a person if they gave something a chance and it wasn't for them. Not everyone has to like the same things. Get out of your bubble.


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## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

3venflow said:


> People always bring Meltzer into it, including the Cornette followers who pretty much parrot his opinions to the word (oh, the irony).
> 
> But what about Japanese companies, fan votes and zines that have no idea who Meltzer is?
> 
> ...


All of his Japan matches you listed says more about Ibushi, Naito and Okada. They were able to carry Omega to great matches.
As for the old school greats and their opinions.. Austin was a great talent, but I don´t consider him as an expert on who´s good and who´s not... He wasn´t that great himself.
Angle or Foley? Yes, when they talk, I listen, but both are nice guys, so maybe they´re just being polite (I don´t know what interviews you´re referring to, so context matters)
Punk or Rollins had the same indie background as Omega, so they´re leaning towards wrestlers who come from there.. I don´t put much stock in their opinions either.

And no. Consensus among hardcore indie wrestling fans and Dave Meltzer -maybe even BECAUSE of Meltzer and his praise of anything that happens in the Tokyo Dome, may tend to look at Omega as one of the best wrestlers in a very short timespan, namely a decade where wrestling was rapidly declining.. Wrestling fans in general might have another view.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

yeahright2 said:


> All of his Japan matches you listed says more about Ibushi, Naito and Okada. They were able to carry Omega to great matches.


So, let's say Okada carried Omega in all of their matches. Then how was their series so good compared to almost anything else ever? Why can't Okada hit that level with Ospreay or Ishii, especially since Ishii supposedly carried Omega too? Okada and Ishii have had some tremendous matches, but their series of matches does not compare to the Okada vs. Kenny series of matches. There's a common denominator here...

And you know, I've seen Hirooki Goto wrestle everyone in New Japan. He's an excellent worker but never a top tier guy. And his match against Kenny is probably the best match of his career. That, or his match against Ishii. Either way, Goto did not have this standard of match even against Tanahashi in Tanahashi's prime years.

Trying to validate an argument against Omega by discrediting him and crediting all his opponents falls short. I'd also like to see an explanation for the Omega vs. Michael Elgin ladder match in 2016 which was one of the best ladder matches ever and IMO, better than HBK vs. Razor Ramon. And their G1 match in 2017 which was ridiculously good. Are you going to stay consistent and credit Elgin for these feats? Because besides Kenny, only Naito has ever had a match around that level with Elgin.

And what about Omega vs. Janela? No one... NO ONE has dragged Janela to the level of excitement that Omega did on AEW's secondary show.

I'm sorry, but it just comes across as lazy to credit everyone else for Omega's best moments to justify your personal dislike of him. It's like... I was never the biggest Bret Hart fan until his heel turn, but I can still recognise how great he was.

Okada and Omega's last match went for 64 minutes and was one of the best matches I have ever seen. That was because of two men's contributions, not one. It's impossible for a match to reach this level at this length without two generational talents each playing a part.



> As for the old school greats and their opinions.. Austin was a great talent, but I don´t consider him as an expert on who´s good and who´s not... He wasn´t that great himself.
> Angle or Foley? Yes, when they talk, I listen, but both are nice guys, so maybe they´re just being polite (I don´t know what interviews you´re referring to, so context matters)
> Punk or Rollins had the same indie background as Omega, so they´re leaning towards wrestlers who come from there.. I don´t put much stock in their opinions either.


So here, you're doing mental gymnastics to try and downplay comments made by a handful of wrestlers, one by one. This is a clear sign of a personal bias against Omega and the inability to be objective. It's hard to argue when someone will go to these lengths...

If those same workers had said the same about your favourite wrestler, whoever that may be, I have a feeling that you'd be happy to take heed of their words. Because that is a damn impressive sample of wrestlers to cite. But hey, Jim Cornette doesn't like him so he must suck...


----------



## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

Blaze2k2 said:


> And apparently Cornette is doing the thinking for you.


I like a lot of things that Cornette doesn't, so that's unlikely, but I'd rather be on the side of Cornette than Dave Meltzer, that's for sure.

As far as Kenny being "a draw" and a big star in Japan goes, so fucking what? America's B and C talent have always drawn over there. Stan Hansen was huge in Japan, nowhere near as big here. Scott Norton was a world champion over here, a directionless midcarder in WCW. Hell, Norton and Bagwell were selling out shows in Japan in 96 and 97 as the the NWOs representatives. Omega being over in Japan means absolutely nothing.


----------



## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

DZ Crew said:


> What constitutes great work is subjective though. It's also not fair to assume that people who don't like Omega don't know what good wrestling is or are a WWE mark.


I'm not assuming all people who don't like Omega are WWE marks however from my personal experience most of the people that I've had discussions with only watch WWE or American wrestling so their opinion on what constitutes as good wrestling is shaped by that lens.



> I've watched his work in Japan and AEW and while he's had some great matches he just doesn't do it for me and i feel he's overrated.


That's fair and I can accept that. At least you've seen his New Japan work. I'm more speaking to those who say they don't like Omega but have never seen his work in Japan or wrestling in general outside of WWE period.



> For some people that's not their style of wrestling or that guy or girl isn't for them. You can't fault a person if they gave something a chance and it wasn't for them.


That's just it though I don't believe most people are "giving it a chance". I believe most people have seen a match or two of Omega in AEW without seeing any of his New Japan work and quickly dismiss him and return to their WWE bubble. 




> Not everyone has to like the same things. Get out of your bubble.


You're right not everybody has to like the same things but I'm also not gonna say I don't like something without trying everything on the buffet.


----------



## stew mack (Apr 24, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> He's highly rated because the hardcore bubble decided he was their new guy. Just like Bryan and Benoit before him, he's mildly overrated. He's the living personification of what's the hardcore fan consensus of the mid 2010s onward want.d Knees, high paced, is an admitted geek, references games and anime, does a bunch of moves, thinks wrestling is art. How could he not be the best going today with all that attached to him.



dont forget he bangs asians of both the male and female variety so the fans like to live vicariously through him as well


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

stew mack said:


> dont forget he bangs asians of both the male and female variety so the fans like to live vicariously through him as well


Is he seriously bi lol


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Blaze2k2 said:


> I'm not assuming all people who don't like Omega are WWE marks however from my personal experience most of the people that I've had discussions with only watch WWE or American wrestling so their opinion on what constitutes as good wrestling is shaped by that lens.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really don't get the "well you had to have seen him elsewhere logic" if Kenny is such the generational talent that he is seen to be then that should translate regardless of promotion. Saying that you have to have seen him elsewhere is pretty much saying he's a system player vs a truly great player. It especially makes less sense when he's been in AEW 2 years and has been given a fair shake to shine. It's not like say Taz and Raven going to WWE and never really getting a fair shake of things.


----------



## Tell it like it is (Jul 1, 2019)

Dream opponents are always either one of the three Omega, Styles, or Daniel Bryan.
and all three have actual visible influence on the current wrestling style of the generation.
denying either one of them pretty much shows you don't know shit about wrestling


----------



## stew mack (Apr 24, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> Is he seriously bi lol



either that or hes gay baiting lol.. althought the dude may just be asianosexual into asians of all genders lol


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

3venflow said:


> So, let's say Okada carried Omega in all of their matches. Then how was their series so good compared to almost anything else ever? Why can't Okada hit that level with Ospreay or Ishii, especially since Ishii supposedly carried Omega too? Okada and Ishii have had some tremendous matches, but their series of matches does not compare to the Okada vs. Kenny series of matches. There's a common denominator here...
> 
> And you know, I've seen Hirooki Goto wrestle everyone in New Japan. He's an excellent worker but never a top tier guy. And his match against Kenny is probably the best match of his career. That, or his match against Ishii. Either way, Goto did not have this standard of match even against Tanahashi in Tanahashi's prime years.
> 
> ...


I´ve not watched all of Omegas matches, only some of the highly prasied ones. And there´s a thing called in-ring chemistry. Notice how I didn´t say he was rotten? Some wrestlers just clicks better with somebody, and the next guy can have a mediocre match even if he´s better.
You´re the one who brought all the "old guys" praising Omega into this, so you´re just gonna accept how I debunk their opinion with valid reasoning.. For the record, I think I found that clip where Angle says Omega would be a dream match.. Well, Angle is currently without a job, so..
And that´s not mental gymnastics. But writing this long essay of yours is a clear attempt at deflecting, so that´s the mental gymnastics. But you´re the one doing it.
So you think Omega/Okada is the best match YOU`VE watched. Well, that´s your opinion, it´s not nessesarily the opinion of every other wrestling fan like you tried to claim.. Fans like you are difficult to argue with, because you instantly say "well, you´re just biased" whenever anyone dares to critizise your favorites.


----------



## Tell it like it is (Jul 1, 2019)

Have you ever thought of that: If you call this wrestler overrated while 95% of the fans think he/she is so good, then maybe you are the problem and not the others. Everyone can have his opinion yes, but between "This person is overrated" & "I don't like this match" is a HUGE difference


----------



## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

Because he was on the indy's and was never signed to WWE so he's like a loch ness monster.


----------



## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

RapShepard said:


> I really don't get the "well you had to have seen him elsewhere logic" if Kenny is such the generational talent that he is seen to be then that should translate regardless of promotion.


To me he translates regardless of promotion because I watch other promotions other than WWE and I have a deep appreciation for in-ring work. I'm also a realist in the fact that what you get in one promotion you may not get in another so don't expect things to be the same. For example AJ Styles is good in WWE but I would say his work was better in New Japan. The same can be said for Omega. Some of this is not their fault though as they're limited within the perimeters of their promotions.



> Saying that you have to have seen him elsewhere is pretty much saying he's a system player vs a truly great player. It especially makes less sense when he's been in AEW 2 years and has been given a fair shake to shine.


And he has shined within certain AEW perimeters. It's not going to be on the level of New Japan because when you're doing a weekly TV show you're dealing with TV time constraints and other limitations that water down a match. New Japan shows are different. They play out more like pay-per-views where you're able to really flesh out and build a match. Omega best matches have primarily been on ppv's in AEW so It is what it is.


----------



## ShadesMcDude (Oct 4, 2017)

Well, he’s great in the ring. Never saw any NJPW work but his matches with PAC and Fenix were quality. By AEW standards he has a good physique, and looks like an athlete. 

I think his character work and promos are awful, he basically comes across as a goofball anime villain since his heel turn.

I‘ll tell you why so many neckbeard smarks love him. He’s a nerd who lived in Japan, loves anime and video games and is apparently banging an asian chick (Shida), so he‘s pretty much what a neckbeard dreams of being.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Tell it like it is said:


> Have you ever thought of that: If you call this wrestler overrated while 95% of the fans think he/she is so good, then maybe you are the problem and not the others. Everyone can have his opinion yes, but between "This person is overrated" & "I don't like this match" is a HUGE difference


On the other hand isn't important to be able step back and admit when something you're into is more of a niche in the genre and may not fit into consensus appeal. What excels and shines bright as excellent in the niche of NJPW may not appeal to the bigger and farther reaching US wrestling and that's okay. 



Blaze2k2 said:


> To me he translates regardless of promotion because I watch other promotions other than WWE and *I have a deep appreciation for in-ring work*. I'm also a realist in the fact that what you get in one promotion you may not get in another so don't expect things to be the same. For example AJ Styles is good in WWE but I would say his work was better in New Japan. The same can be said for Omega. Some of this is not their fault though as they're limited within the perimeters of their promotions.
> 
> 
> 
> And he has shined within certain AEW perimeters. It's not going to be on the level of New Japan because when you're doing a weekly TV show you're dealing with TV time constraints and other limitations that water down a match. New Japan shows are different. They play out more like pay-per-views where you're able to really flesh out and build a match. Omega best matches have primarily been on ppv's in AEW so It is what it is.


I think that's where a lot of the blowback comes from. I think the appreciation of one specific part of wrestling on a personal level makes sense, but it's the claim of someone being the best based on one specific overspecialization is what sours some people on guys like Kenny or the treatment of NJPW in general. As well as the reluctance to include new guys in the all time great categories with such short runs to back it up. 

For instance I think most would agree MJF is a great talker and character worker who has a bright future. But I see very few saying he's the best going solely off the fact he might be the best promo and character worker right now, because there's more to wrestling than that. I see even less saying he's one of the greatest promo and characters of all time, because well his run isn't long enough. 

So with Kenny it's kinda like is he really the best going or one of the best ever mostly based a series of what 4 matches that happened to a niche audience, especially considering he's not excelling at the other aspects of wrestling to a similar degree? 

That said I do think Kenny is pretty damn good from based on his AEW work. His NJPW matches I've seen them as far as the WKs but without proper context they mostly meh and long. Though that's not necesssarly his fault.


----------



## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

RapShepard said:


> I think that's where a lot of the blowback comes from. I think the appreciation of one specific part of wrestling on a personal level makes sense, but it's the claim of someone being the best based on one specific overspecialization is what sours some people on guys like Kenny or the treatment of NJPW in general. As well as the reluctance to include new guys in the all time great categories with such short runs to back it up.


Ring work is valued over everything else in Japan. That's their mentality so when you're a fan of New Japan you tend to adopt that same mentality. In Japan it's 1. In - ring, 2. Character (gimmick), 3. Promos. If you've watched WWE or other American promotions all your life that order would be 1. Character (gimmick), 2. Promos, 3. In -ring. That's the American mentality. This is where the clash happens because you have different philosophies on what is valued more. Also, Just for the record I believe that Omega is great in regard to in-ring but not all time great. At least not yet. To me all time great workers would be guys like Great Muta, Jushin "Thunder" Liger, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Ricky Steamboat, Rey Mysterio, Bret Hart, etc. 



> For instance I think most would agree MJF is a great talker and character worker who has a bright future. But I see very few saying he's the best going solely off the fact he might be the best promo and character worker right now, because there's more to wrestling than that.


Again this comes down to what is valued more. MJF is cultivated from American promotions so he's going to be viewed and critiqued through that lens. Omega had his rise through Japanese promotions so he's viewed and critiqued through that lens. Conflicting philosophies. 



> I see even less saying he's one of the greatest promo and characters of all time, because well his run isn't long enough.


I definitely agree with you that time is the factor in what makes someone all time great. Neither Omega or MJF are all time great. Perhaps in time they very well may be but who knows.



> So with Kenny it's kinda like is he really the best going or one of the best ever mostly based a series of what 4 matches that happened to a niche audience, especially considering he's not excelling at the other aspects of wrestling to a similar degree?


I would say his acclaim is based on more than four matches and the whole aspect of what's considered niche Is tricky because I don't believe wrestling fans in Japan are watching WWE in large numbers over Japanese promotions like New Japan. Does that make WWE a niche audience to the Japanese?


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Blaze2k2 said:


> Ring work is valued over everything else in Japan. That's their mentality so when you're a fan of New Japan you tend to adopt that same mentality. In Japan it's 1. In - ring, 2. Character (gimmick), 3. Promos. If you've watched WWE or other American promotions all your life that order would be 1. Character (gimmick), 2. Promos, 3. In -ring. That's the American mentality. This is where the clash happens because you have different philosophies on what is valued more. Also, Just for the record I believe that Omega is great in regard to in-ring but not all time great. At least not yet. To me all time great workers would be guys like Great Muta, Jushin "Thunder" Liger, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Ricky Steamboat, Rey Mysterio, Bret Hart, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nah I get what you mean on what matters in Japan is inverse just like how Mexico has it's own wrestling culture same with the UK. But I call Japan and Mexico niche because they don't have the same reach as their US counterparts. Even outside of WWE look at how AEW came on the scene and immediately had a global presence. 

Look at something like YouTube which is free and is available worldwide AEW has 2 million subscribers compared to NJPW 352k(US page) 441k(Japanese page). AEW's highest rated video has 29 million views. NJPW highest rated is 3.7 million(US page) and 2million for the Japanese page. AEW has 73 videos with a million views or more, while NJPW US has only 6 videos with more than a million views and the Japanese page just 15. Both NJPW pages predate AEW's existence. So I'd say Japanese wrestling is definitely a niche. 


Agree with you on longevity mattering, unless you have a unique Austin or Rock type of circumstance


----------



## the44boz (Apr 29, 2014)

Blaze2k2 said:


> No, just somebody who watches wrestling outside of the WWE bubble.


I repeat. Meltzer is that you.


----------



## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

the44boz said:


> I repeat. Meltzer is that you.


And I repeat Cornette is that you.


----------



## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

RapShepard said:


> Nah I get what you mean on what matters in Japan is inverse just like how Mexico has it's own wrestling culture same with the UK. But I call Japan and Mexico niche because they don't have the same reach as their US counterparts. Even outside of WWE look at how AEW came on the scene and immediately had a global presence.
> 
> Look at something like YouTube which is free and is available worldwide AEW has 2 million subscribers compared to NJPW 352k(US page) 441k(Japanese page). AEW's highest rated video has 29 million views. NJPW highest rated is 3.7 million(US page) and 2million for the Japanese page. AEW has 73 videos with a million views or more, while NJPW US has only 6 videos with more than a million views and the Japanese page just 15. Both NJPW pages predate AEW's existence. So I'd say Japanese wrestling is definitely a niche.


I believe the reason for New Japan's low subscriber numbers to their YouTube pages iis because they don't really advertise in an aggressive way like WWE/ AEW does. They're real strict on the content they release. They would rather you subscribe to NJPW World and watch their content there than on youtube. With WWE and AEW you're getting weekly content out of them and in AEW's case you're getting free weekly shows on youtube.

Also New Japan tends to do a disservice to its American fans who review their shows on Youtube and try to generate more fans by hitting them with copyright strikes if they use even a still picture from a show. They punish fans who try to garner publicity for them. New Japan can have a bigger global reach but they've become their own worst enemy. Someone recently told me that it's actually TV Asahi and not New Japan that's behind the content stinginess and since they're a Japan based company they don't care too much about the international market.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Blaze2k2 said:


> I believe the reason for New Japan's low subscriber numbers to their YouTube pages iis because they don't really advertise in an aggressive way like WWE/ AEW does. They're real strict on the content they release. They would rather you subscribe to NJPW World and watch their content there than on youtube. With WWE and AEW you're getting weekly content out of them and in AEW's case you're getting free weekly shows on youtube.
> 
> Also New Japan tends to do a disservice to its American fans who review their shows on Youtube and try to generate more fans by hitting them with copyright strikes if they use even a still picture from a show. They punish fans who try to garner publicity for them. New Japan can have a bigger global reach but they've become their own worst enemy. Someone recently told me that it's actually TV Asahi and not New Japan that's behind the content stinginess and since they're a Japan based company they don't care too much about the international market.


Lmao that reminds me of how slow Nintendo has been to get into this new era of online gaming and streaming and shit. But yeah that reluctance definitely hurts them


----------



## YamchaRocks (Dec 22, 2012)

He's not on the level of the best wrestlers of current generation, Young Bucks, Seth or Adam Cole, but his just one tier below.


----------



## Wrestlephrenia (Apr 5, 2021)

YamchaRocks said:


> He's not on the level of the best wrestlers of current generation, Young Bucks, Seth or Adam Cole, but his just one tier below.


They all suck.


----------



## kingfunkel (Aug 17, 2011)

I do like his in ring work and his entrance... Has a decent look. My main issue is his facial reactions, every move has a theatrical facial expression of kinds. I find them very annoying, I'd also love for him to change his pants. I hate those dragonball z looking pants.


----------



## Kentucky34 (Sep 30, 2015)

Wrestlephrenia said:


> They all suck.


Yeah the biggest draw and the best all rounder in the industry sure does suck.


----------



## Wrestlephrenia (Apr 5, 2021)

Kentucky34 said:


> Yeah the biggest draw and the best all rounder in the industry sure does suck.


Kenny Omega is neither a draw or the best. Your post is pure reverie.


----------



## Lurker V2.0 (Feb 2, 2021)

Kenny is not my cup of tea


----------



## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

kingfunkel said:


> I do like his in ring work and his entrance... Has a decent look. My main issue is his facial reactions, every move has a theatrical facial expression of kinds. I find them very annoying,


His gimmick is derived from video games. Fighting games to be exact. The over the top facial expressions and pointing theatrics are the equivalent of a fighter charging up his meter before doing a super move. That's basically what the v trigger is. He even took the name "v trigger" right from Street fighter. So the way he wrestles/ performs in the ring is equivalent to a Street fighter character. 



> I'd also love for him to change his pants. I hate those dragonball z looking pants.


That's video game inspired as well. Kenny is a video Game nerd so he takes a lot of inspiration from that world.


----------



## Lurker V2.0 (Feb 2, 2021)

Tell it like it is said:


> Have you ever thought of that: If you call this wrestler overrated while 95% of the fans think he/she is so good, then maybe you are the problem and not the others. Everyone can have his opinion yes, but between "This person is overrated" & "I don't like this match" is a HUGE difference





Tell it like it is said:


> Have you ever thought of that: If you call this wrestler overrated while 95% of the fans think he/she is so good, then maybe you are the problem and not the others. Everyone can have his opinion yes, but between "This person is overrated" & "I don't like this match" is a HUGE difference


Not sure who you are replying too. 

Telling someone their opinion or feelings are “the problem” is what mentally abusive people do. 👀


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

Kenny always delivers in the ring (he’s been involved in most of AEWs best matches) and now that he’s with Callis it’s corrected his weakest attribute which was his promos.

Unfortunately, some dickhead (and this could be Kenny himself as he’s an EVP) thinks it’s a good idea for your World champ (and soon to be multi-promotion world champ) to be put through tables by dark level talent like Janela and have matches at the beginning and in the middle of your weekly TV show.

How are you supposed to convince your audience that this is the best wrestler across several promotions when you’re not even treating him as the biggest thing on your own weekly TV show. 

On top of that he’s affiliated with idiots like nakazawa and the young Bucks, 3 people who look like jokes and shit on the fundamentals of wrestling. The good brothers are passable if they aren’t doing their jizzing and tizzing bullshit.

Impact books Kenny like the star he should be booked as, AEW books him in and around everything else that’s going on.

Your World champ should main event every show he wrestles on, and if you want a TNT title match, women’s lights out match or arcade crap match to main event then you do it on the weeks that your champ isn’t wrestling.

A good booker would know this.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

He has great matches and he's an entertaining weirdo


----------



## Kentucky34 (Sep 30, 2015)

Wrestlephrenia said:


> Kenny Omega is neither a draw or the best. Your post is pure reverie.


I meant Seth Rollins. 

Omega blows.


----------



## Wrestlephrenia (Apr 5, 2021)

Kentucky34 said:


> I meant Seth Rollins.
> 
> Omega blows.


Rollins blows too.


----------



## Buster Baxter (Mar 30, 2015)

I started watching him when he came to America, and didn't see what the big deal was especially with the hype he was getting on here in 2016, but I would say towards late last year was when he started growing on me. He definitely has charisma, I really like some of the vignettes that they film with him. He has great presentation in AEW in terms of theme music,entrance, carrying himself like a star, and he deserves to be one of the top names. In-ring wise I wouldn't say he's just flat out above everyone else, guys like Cesaro, Rollins, Styles,etc. are right there with him, but I think Omega's more charismatic.


----------



## stew mack (Apr 24, 2013)

Tell it like it is said:


> Have you ever thought of that: If you call this wrestler overrated while 95% of the fans think he/she is so good, then maybe you are the problem and not the others. Everyone can have his opinion yes, but between "This person is overrated" & "I don't like this match" is a HUGE difference



So its MY fault that Kenny Omega has largely peaked and you guys dont want to admit that?


----------



## Cowabunga (Oct 9, 2010)

I haven't watched any of his Japan work, so I didn't know what to expect of him when he went to AEW. 

Well, he's a talented wrestler, I can tell. Is he a personal favourite of mine? No, not really. But I can see the appeal.


----------



## the44boz (Apr 29, 2014)

Blaze2k2 said:


> And I repeat Cornette is that you.


Actually Cornette was never much of a WWE fan either. He prefers the old south kind of wrestling. But at least he's not on WWEs payroll like Meltzer is on AEWs. I mean come on Meltzer named Tony Khan booker of the year.


----------



## yeahbaby! (Jan 27, 2014)

the_flock said:


> I think where Kenny is concerned. He's highly rated by people who never lived through the 90s.
> 
> Ive watched Omega/Okada and all the NJPW stuff, I've seen his AEW matches and to be honest, his style was done a million times better 20 years ago.
> 
> ...


Speaking for myself I definitely lived through the 90s and I highly rate Kenny. He's fantastic and killing it right now. I love his arrogant character and he's one of the few things in all of modern wrestling I look forward too. I think you can like and place a high stock in guys like Flair and Steamboat, Austin and Rock, and Omega and Rey Fenix (just to put an AEW example in there) even though their styles are different because the time is different.

Like others have said I had no idea who the guy was until hearing about him in NJPW, then I saw his matches against Okada and others and was completely blown away. At the end of the Okada matches I couldn't believe how good they were.

Kenny ticks the boxes for me. He is a very believable 'professional wrestler' with incredible physical skills and creative moves and great charisma.


----------



## stevem20 (Jul 24, 2018)

Kenny Omega is not a draw, so let's knock that on the head right now.

He's also a terrible character and his mic skills are awful. Yes, I'm sure he can stand on his toes better than anyone, and can flip a couple of times and make weird faces, but he sucks.


----------



## BuckshotLarry (May 29, 2020)

3venflow said:


> Here is my opinion:
> 
> 
> He can work engaging matches, even if he's not the traditional American style of wrestler many are accustomed to. Match against Fenix was fantastic, the Moxley match was outstanding and only suffered from the overbooking AEW leans on too much (Good Brothers run-in) and the aftermath which was out of his control.
> ...


Excellent post


----------



## The Icon (Jan 22, 2021)

Kenny is the best talent to spurn WWE in recent time. He may not cater to everyone but the guy can wrestle. His promos are not ideal or well versed for the american audience.

Hence Don calliss or however you spell it.
He will only get better and more deep as a character.
The cleaner has hardly yet to clean , just a mickey died.

I look forward to all of his matches , everytime.

Let's be very honest , of all the EVPs , Kenny is the best and least power hungry imo.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

He's very good but not that much better than Murphy, Cedric Alexander, Johnny Gargano, Tony Nese. Probably on par with Rollins, Balor and Cole. Though Jim Cornette would disagree lol. 

That's the magic and illusion of wrestling for you. American fish in a Japanese pond = best thing than sliced bread to easily manipulated wrestling fans.


----------



## Hamada (Aug 17, 2008)

I enjoy Omega. Admittedly I enjoyed him more in NJPW than AEW, haven't seen him in AAA or Impact, but I know he's the AAA Champion and gunning for Rich Swann's world title at the end of April.

I loved Omega v Okada, absolutely blew me away. Does it take two to tango? Sure. Okada's great too, but there's no way they could have done that match for that long, if Omega was bad.

Is he overrated? Sure he is. His detractors portray him as a sack of potatoes with poodle hair and his fans act as if he's the latter day Bret, Shawn, Hogan and Warrior all rolled into one. He's neither of them. He's simply a great wrestler to me. Weak on the mic, yeah, but that's why he has Don Callis with him who is solid on the mic.

Oh and the Jim Cornette thing? He just shits on Omega because after all these years he can't get over Omega once "wrestled" a doll. If Lawler had done the same thing in Memphis in 81 to get heat on Terry Funk he'd lap that shit up, with the programme from the event on his wall and have t shirts printed he could hawk out. Cornette is funny when he's talking about the time he was genuinely in the biz, in the 80s and 90s but now? yeah, it's "Old Man Yells At Cloud" vibes. Just put a picture of Russo in front of him and pull his cord and let him go off.


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

yeahbaby! said:


> Speaking for myself I definitely lived through the 90s and I highly rate Kenny. He's fantastic and killing it right now.


Been watching wrestling since 1990 myself. Grew up watching the WWF Golden Age, watched early 90s WCW, the Monday Night Wars, ECW in its pomp, and Japanese wrestling from 1997 to present day.

And I also think Kenny Omega is great. Some things about modern wrestling do annoy me, but rather than be embittered and live in the past, I appreciate what they are doing and Kenny is one of the best of the modern workers. The characters are not as good now as they used to be, but while a match like Kenny vs. Fenix may not even come close to the storyline intrigue of WCW vs. nWo, for actual wrestling it beats a screwjob Nitro main event with two old guys moving at a snails pace.

When it comes down to it, Omega is entertaining and that is what matters most to me. He can wrestle pretty much anyone and have a good match. He can go to Japan and headline the Tokyo Dome to monster heat. He can go to Mexico and steal the show at Triplemania. He can main event in AEW and put on great matches. Mick Foley called him a perfect mix between wrestler and sports-entertainer. I'd not go quite that far, but he's someone who I know will always put on a good match and entertain me. He is also completely reliable for any promoter in the main event slot and there is no risk of a dud.

As for the drawing question... nowadays, with the odd exception, the brand is drawing more than the wrestler. However, the Bullet Club/Elite have definitely contributed to good ticket sales in recent years. Kenny headlined a Tokyo Dome show that drew NJPW's biggest crowd in over a decade. All In was a momentous success thanks largely to Cody/Kenny/Bucks, the G1 show in America was headlined by Kenny and Cody and was a financial and critical success (they should really redo this match in AEW).

And if Kenny and McIntyre or Lashley swapped places right now, their business would probably neither improve or decline.


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## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

AEWs business declined with Kenny on top, it would likely decline with him on top on Raw. Just like Drew, he's a fine mechanical worker who can't talk and lacks charisma, the difference is, he doesn't look like a million bucks like Drew and especially Lashley do.

And Omega doing well in Japan means what? American wrestlers always drew well in Japan. Scott Norton was a big deal over there, lol.


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## RomeoBlues (Mar 11, 2021)

Omega is rated highly because AEW, Dave Meltzer and other industry professionals say he's great even though some (Most?) of the fans don't really think so.

You see it all the time in sport where a player is really overhyped by everyone but in reality isn't any more amazing than someone on another team.


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## yeahbaby! (Jan 27, 2014)

The XL 2 said:


> AEWs business declined with Kenny on top, it would likely decline with him on top on Raw. Just like Drew, he's a fine mechanical worker who can't talk and lacks charisma, the difference is, he doesn't look like a million bucks like Drew and especially Lashley do.
> 
> *And Omega doing well in Japan means what? American wrestlers always drew well in Japan. Scott Norton was a big deal over there, lol.*


That is completely and utterly false. Surely you jest. Norton was 25 years ago FFS.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Because smarks are the new marks, and Dave got his work in Japan mythologised. Gedo also deserves credit/blame because of the incredible job he did pushing him.


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## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

Kentucky34 said:


> It's because he worked for a long time in Japan isn't it?
> 
> Is he a great worker? He's good, not great. Certainly not in the same league as Bryan or Gargano.
> 
> ...


His NJPW matches are highly rated, and with good reason. But he’s also done a lot of work in DDT – a sports entertainment parody fed – that won’t get mentioned since there is not as much familiarity with that body of work in Japan compared to NJPW.

Bryan is a technician – name me a technician that did not turn out to be a great wrestler. And Gargano is a legslap happy, spotty wrestler that is highly overrated. His wife is a better wrestler, and quite underrated.

Omega’s fine on the mic. But since his approach of delivering anime-style promos is not appreciated by many of this side of the ocean, he has a mouthpiece in Callis to speak for him.

Not sure what character work you are looking for here. If it’s too juvenile for you, remember that it would be accepted wholesale if he was in WWE. And Omega has tried to treat both NJPW and AEW as his version of WWE.

No one is really drawing in any promotion within the US. AEW’s strongest drawing champ was Jericho. Is Jericho expected to be the AEW champ forever like he’s Bruno Sammartino? Also, Omega’s the first non ex-WWE star to hold the AEW title. Of course he is going to run into some sort of trouble drawing; WWE is all the casual US audience, and a good chunk of the casual global audience, knows. FFS, its Wrestlemania week. No one is going to be thinking about Omega right now.


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## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Blaze2k2 said:


> Meltzer doesn't need to convince anybody of anything. I've been following wrestling long enough to know what great work is and Omega fits the bill. What's happened here is you got snobbish American wrestling fans who think the world revolves around WWE and anything that is considered great work has to meet up to so-called WWE standards. Fuck all that.


THANK YOU for taking the words out of my mouth! 

I really like Dave Meltzer, but I don’t need him to convince me that Kenny Omega is one of the best wrestlers on the planet. 

Hell, 2020 was understandably a weak year for all of the wrestling companies, but yet Omega still managed to deliver the most output of good matches out of anyone in my book (which isn’t meant to take away the work from the rest of the other good talents too).

For the record, I also rate the likes of Daniel Bryan, Johnny Gargano, Adam Cole, and Seth Rollins very highly as wrestlers in case this sounds like my support for Kenny Omega is somehow taking away from their in-ring ability to anyone who’s ready to question me here


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## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

DZ Crew said:


> In the words of the Dude; that's like your opinion man. You're entitled to yours but don't act like everyone who's not high on omega is a wwe snob. I feel Bryan could wrestle circles around Omega and draw 10 times the people, but that's my opinion. So don't assume everyone else is wrong simply because you claim to know what "great" work is. It's a subjective term.


Okay, but just know that what he said in that post wasn’t wrong at all 👍


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## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Kopros_The_Great said:


> How is Seth Rollins any kind of standard? The guy is so fucking lame.


Omega and Rollins are BOTH top-tier wrestlers, so they should be good standards tbh.


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## Kopros_The_Great (Jun 26, 2014)

DammitChrist said:


> Omega and Rollins are BOTH top-tier wrestlers, so they should be good standards tbh.


That's only because there are no *real* top tier wrestlers.


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## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

jack121 said:


> The only thing Omega does well is wrestle. Omega is pretty good in the ring but he's certainly not the best in-ring performer in the world.
> 
> He's not good on the mic, he has no charisma, his character sucks (generic heel champion). I just don't get the hype.


Just because YOU don’t get the hype doesn’t mean that Omega “isn’t” charismatic.

He’s obviously able to connect well with multiple wrestling crowds (in different promotions too).


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## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

NathanMayberry said:


> I have no fucking idea.
> 
> I usually find a way to mark for all Canadian wrestlers. Even Lance Storm.. but I just can't with Kenny. I'll never forget rushing to the torrent sites on 1/5 the day after Omega v Okada to go watch what was supposed to be the greatest Wrestling match ever.. and I was bored out of my mind... it. was. so. long. I actually found myself more into the Naito vs Tanahashi match, they actually looked like they had a wrestling match, which wasn't talked about as much. Since then, I've seen his long matches get more and more praise and I continue to be bored out of my mind. They're literally all the same and don't look like two guys trying to have a fight. He throws it in your face that wrestling's fake.
> 
> I really think his title reign is what convinced Vince that AEW would never be a threat. He was supposed to be AEW's xFactor. His title reign was supposed to take AEW to new heights. Given all the hype, he has been a massive flop. I keep seeing people say wait till he has this match with this person then XYZ will happen but then wouldn't that mean that they are the stars if they have to be the ones needed to cause people to care about Omega?


Yikes, I can see why you somehow keep claiming that Omega is somehow “tanking” the ratings on a weekly basis. You’re obviously biased against the guy to an extreme level to the point where you’re letting those strong negative/apathetic emotions cloud your judgment regarding the numbers.


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## Greatsthegreats (Apr 15, 2015)

Omega is one of many wrestlers that can actually bring about the new golden era of this business which is more than can ever be said about Batista or Cena or HHH


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Omega actually replaces Triple H for me as the most overrated wrestler in that sort of spot ever.


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## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

Kentucky34 said:


> It's because he worked for a long time in Japan isn't it?
> 
> Is he a great worker? He's good, not great. Certainly not in the same league as Bryan or Gargano.
> 
> ...


I actually wasnt a big fan but he's grown on me since turning heel. I still think he's ridiculously overrated though.

It's easy to see why he's so popular.

1. Meltzer hypes him to the moon and people always believe what they're told when it comes from their master.

2. He's a total japanophile anime geek. Thats like 95% of todays audience. He's literally like a character from street fighter come to life.

Geeky or not, he plays to his character well and seperates himself from other boring ass snoozfests like that joke Seth Rollins.


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## llj (Feb 22, 2018)

How can Kentucky, a workrate fan, not see the the greatness that is Kenny Omega? 

He's AEW's Seth Rollins!

Without him the company would be NOTHING!


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## ryanschuette (Aug 11, 2016)

His stuff in New Japan was great. In AEW, not so much. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## yeahbaby! (Jan 27, 2014)

TheDraw said:


> I actually wasnt a big fan but he's grown on me since turning heel. I still think he's ridiculously overrated though.
> 
> It's easy to see why he's so popular.
> 
> ...


I think he's awesome and really killing it since becoming champ and I've never read or watched anything from Meltzer. Maybe it's different in the US I dunno. I can't imagine that many people thinking 'well Meltzer said this guy is great so.....'.

If anything I avoid his ratings or anything like that because I heard he rated The Omega/Okada matches 6 or 7 stars or something. Does not compute.


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