# AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread Part III



## CJ

*Part I
Part II*​


----------



## Carter84

Now i can watch and learn facts about stuff I haven't a clue about. My bros @optikk sucks and @LifeInCattleClass know tons about this, with many others. Do your thing chaps....


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Part 3. Let’s hope for many future million plus P2+ ratings, friends.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

I'm ready for more AEW success!


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Yo, why were you guys shitting on Orlando Jordan in the old thread?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ah.... thread 3

and once again I guess i’ll only ever see every 4th post on here 

big shout out to all my #foreverignores 

your replies to me are never in vain and hold a special place in my heart


----------



## Klitschko

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yo, why were you guys shitting on Orlando Jordan in the old thread?


Because he was shooting lotion on himself and pretending it was cum live on tv???? Didnt see what they were talking about yet when it come to OJ, but I'm guessing it was where people were talking about horrible things in TNA.


----------



## Prosper

Part 3. The end of the trilogy. This is where the Avengers beat Thanos, where the Fellowship of the Ring beat Sauron, where Katniss Everdeen beats President Snow in Mockinjay, and where AEW beats RAW once and for all.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> Part 3. The end of the trilogy. This is where the Avengers beat Thanos, where the Fellowship of the Ring beat Sauron, where Katniss Everdeen beats President Snow in Mockinjay, and where AEW beats RAW once and for all.




it will happen!


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it will happen!


If they don’t win here then they will have to break the Part 3 movie into 2 parts lol.

Part III: Book 2


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Part 1 was started last September and lasted until the end of Dec. 264 pages with 5275 posts (many of which i had on ignore.)

Part 2 was started in January and lasted until today, September. 510 whooping pages with 10,188 posts (many of which I had on ignore.)

Lets see how this one goes.


----------



## DammitChrist

prosperwithdeen said:


> Part 3. The end of the trilogy. This is where the Avengers beat Thanos, where the Fellowship of the Ring beat Sauron, where Katniss Everdeen beats President Snow in Mockinjay, and where AEW beats RAW once and for all.


The trilogy is also where The Rock finally beat ('Stone Cold') Steve Austin at Wrestlemania (19), and where Tetsuya Naito finally beat Kazuchika Okada at Wrestle Kingdom (14 Night 2) :cudi


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEW vs RAW will become a handicap match. 

AEW and Vince McMahon vs RAW


----------



## Not Lying

If NXT moves to Tuesdays, I think AEW could do consistently above 1m, even reaching 1.2m a couple of times before the end of the year.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Masked Avenger said:


> Part 1 was started last September and lasted until the end of Dec. 264 pages with 5275 posts (many of which i had on ignore.)
> 
> Part 2 was started in January and lasted until today, September. 510 whooping pages with 10,188 posts (many of which I had on ignore.)
> 
> Lets see how this one goes.


I can't imagine how much someone would be obsessed with an echo chamber to just block people for different opinions. It'd be one thing if harassment or offensive behaviour was occurring but different opinion? Oof.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> Part 3. The end of the trilogy. This is where the Avengers beat Thanos, where the Fellowship of the Ring beat Sauron, where Katniss Everdeen beats President Snow in Mockinjay, and where AEW beats RAW once and for all.


The Avengers lost in part three. Luckily, like Skywalkers, there is another.


----------



## Garty

Ahh, this is a much needed refreshing of sorts. Smell that? Smells like success.

Now, if only the, "_I don't watch anymore, I don't care, this company sucks, vanilla midgets, I'm done watching this crap, too much Stunt, Janela, Kiss, Nakazawa and useless women's matches_" crowd (mainly Ozell & The Aussies), can actually stay away and put your money where your mouth is and abide by your own comments I just mentioned, things would be much quieter and a hell of a lot easier to read and comment on.

On behalf of the majority of users in the AEW community, we thank you for keeping and honoring your pledge.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Garty said:


> Ahh, this is a much needed refreshing of sorts. Smell that? Smells like success.
> 
> Now, if only the, "_I don't watch anymore, I don't care, this company sucks, vanilla midgets, I'm done watching this crap, too much Stunt, Janela, Kiss, Nakazawa and useless women's matches_" crowd (mainly Ozell & The Aussies), can actually stay away and put your money where your mouth is and abide by your own comments I just mentioned, things would be much quieter and a hell of a lot easier to read and comment on.
> 
> On behalf of the majority of users in the AEW community, we thank you for keeping and honoring your pledge.


Another person looking for an echo chamber.

Can someone sensible tell me why a different opinion is so offensive? Imagine if we (The "haters") blocked anyone who liked AEW. It'd be ludicrous.


----------



## TD Stinger

Looks like AEW will air as scheduled on Wednesday. Nuggets/Clippers Game 7 and Celtics/Heat Game 1 both scheduled for Tuesday. No games on Wednesday.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Is NXT on Wednesday?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Is NXT on Wednesday?


yup, seems like


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yup, seems like


Back to their usual ratings


----------



## Cult03

Chip Chipperson said:


> Another person looking for an echo chamber.
> 
> Can someone sensible tell me why a different opinion is so offensive? Imagine if we (The "haters") blocked anyone who liked AEW. It'd be ludicrous.


Don't respond to the bait, just report him. He won't learn and deserves to be banned from here. Same with @LifeInCattleClass and @The Masked Avenger. It's all bait.


----------



## DammitChrist

If anything, the pessimistic (AEW) critics/hacks are actually the ones doing the baiting tbh.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Anyways...

I'm ready for TH2 to really get some AEW time. They're one of the main teams I was excited for.


----------



## DaSlacker

prosperwithdeen said:


> Part 3. The end of the trilogy. This is where the Avengers beat Thanos, where the Fellowship of the Ring beat Sauron, where Katniss Everdeen beats President Snow in Mockinjay, and where AEW beats RAW once and for all.


Or alternatively. AEW introduces Ewoks, Ryback emerges from a hole and starts a terrorist army in the sewers under Daily's Place,and Brandi is killed off while she gives a Sophia Coppola performance ...

Either timeline sounds like fun!


----------



## Cult03

DammitChrist said:


> If anything, the pessimistic (AEW) critics/hacks are actually the ones doing the baiting tbh.


The people who have criticisms and get called out in every thread even before they post anything are the ones baiting? That will do me. AEW super fans are forever the fucking victims.


----------



## One Shed

Cult03 said:


> The people who have criticisms and get called out in every thread even before they post anything are the ones baiting? That will do me. AEW super fans are forever the fucking victims.


There are blind haters, blind worshipers, and people who like the product or at least the potential of the product and want it to improve. Dunno why so many people on here have black and white thinking. Dare not to praise everything they do, must be a hater!


----------



## DammitChrist

Cult03 said:


> The people who have criticisms and get called out in every thread even before they post anything are the ones baiting? That will do me. *AEW super fans are forever the fucking victims.*


Ah, I see this is the classic 'pot calling the kettle black' situation where you're painting obnoxiously pessimistic critics like yourself as a victim. Aren't you the one reporting other cool folks on here for (understandably) supporting a wrestling promotion that entertains them frequently?


----------



## Cult03

DammitChrist said:


> Ah, I see this is the classic 'pot calling the kettle black' situation where you're painting obnoxiously pessimistic critics like yourself as a victim. Aren't you the one reporting other cool folks on here for (understandably) supporting a wrestling promotion that entertains them frequently?


This entire post is full of lies. I am reporting people for baiting, instead of responding to them and taking every thread off topic. You guys are so dishonest with the way you spin shit. How is posting "I wonder what Chip and Cult are going to say" or "Bet I won't see half the replies in here because I block people with differing opinions" supporting a wrestling promotion that entertains them frequently? Fuck off.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> Ah, I see this is the classic 'pot calling the kettle black' situation where you're painting obnoxiously pessimistic critics like yourself as a victim. Aren't you the one reporting other cool folks on here for (understandably) supporting a wrestling promotion that entertains them frequently?


I don't want to take this off topic but I feel the need to comment that during the final pages of the last ratings thread before I even made comment I had four people posting about me whilst I was at work with negative shit towards me.

The amount of people who have aggressively posted at me for my opinions is pretty high as well including yourself when I dared to give my real opinion (Which you asked for mind you) about Orange Cassidy.

And then there is the personal shit. Maybe 5-6 people on here have shit on me for being a "failed promoter" without even knowing a promotion name. I've been personally attacked and in one circumstance even had a guy threaten to fuck my girlfriend. The Wood has been criticised so much that I'd go as far as saying he's often bullied by people on here which is why he's left but people STILL tag him to try and bait him into coming back so they can fight him 5 or 6 on 1 again.

I would assume that's why Cult reports. We genuinely have no issue with people enjoying a wrestling show that entertains them. The only real issues are those who think AEW can do no wrong and those who are deliberately combative.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't want to take this off topic but I feel the need to comment that during the final pages of the last ratings thread before I even made comment I had four people posting about me whilst I was at work with negative shit towards me.
> 
> The amount of people who have aggressively posted at me for my opinions is pretty high as well including yourself when I dared to give my real opinion (Which you asked for mind you) about Orange Cassidy.
> 
> And then there is the personal shit. Maybe 5-6 people on here have shit on me for being a "failed promoter" without even knowing a promotion name. I've been personally attacked and in one circumstance even had a guy threaten to fuck my girlfriend. The Wood has been criticised so much that I'd go as far as saying he's often bullied by people on here which is why he's left but people STILL tag him to try and bait him into coming back so they can fight him 5 or 6 on 1 again.
> 
> I would assume that's why Cult reports. *We genuinely have no issue with people enjoying a wrestling show that entertains them*. The only real issues are those who think AEW can do no wrong and those who are deliberately combative.


Last thing I'll say on this.

i've tried to stay out of this shit lately because it's pro-wrestling and nothing to lose sleep about. but you're talking a load of bollocks mate, playing the victim. I have no issues with any of you guys, but your continued trolling, baiting, derailing and quite frankly shite posting has earned you this reputation and that's why you're finding yourselves unpopular here.

The usual "victims". I've seen you guys call myself, Life, Garty, Carter, DollarDrew, DammitChrist, Technician and many other "AEW superfans" trolls and "the worst users on the site".

I've seen you guys call some of the newer users, like Carter and DollarDrew "rejoiners" and "alts" when they post their first initial opinions.

You guys love to make the threads about yourself and attempt to derail anything positive into something that's completely off-topic. You attempted this in my thread I made about the plans for Miro. I didn't bite. This thread has already been ruined by your antics.

It's OK for you guys to go around calling the "AEW Superfans" trolls, delusional and alts. It's ok for you guys to whine about AEW fans wanting their "echo chamber" Yet it's not OK for guys to say that you are on ignore. And it's you guys who have a discord for your echo chamber.

It's you guys who have driven away some of the decent posters, like Beetles and Reggie. Literally everyone here outside of the "Victims" are fed up of your antics.

Nobody has a problem with your opinion. It is how you put them across and how you put down other users. Do not play the victim in this my friend, because you are not. Don't play such a victim 🤮 .

This thread has been derailed already, and i'll admit it's not your fault in this situation.

Can we get back to discussing AEW now.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> Last thing I'll say on this.
> 
> i've tried to stay out of this shit lately because it's pro-wrestling and nothing to lose sleep about. but you're talking a load of bollocks mate, playing the victim. I have no issues with any of you guys, but your continued trolling, baiting, derailing and quite frankly shite posting has earned you this reputation and that's why you're finding yourselves unpopular here.
> 
> The usual "victims". I've seen you guys call myself, Life, Garty, Carter, DollarDrew, DammitChrist, Technician and many other "AEW superfans" trolls and "the worst users on the site".
> 
> I've seen you guys call some of the newer users, like Carter and DollarDrew "rejoiners" and "alts" when they post their first initial opinions.
> 
> You guys love to make the threads about yourself and attempt to derail anything positive into something that's completely off-topic. You attempted this in my thread I made about the plans for Miro. I didn't bite. This thread has already been ruined by your antics.
> 
> It's OK for you guys to go around calling the "AEW Superfans" trolls, delusional and alts. It's ok for you guys to whine about AEW fans wanting their "echo chamber" Yet it's not OK for guys to say that you are on ignore. And it's you guys who have a discord for your echo chamber.
> 
> It's you guys who have driven away some of the decent posters, like Beetles and Reggie. Literally everyone here outside of the "Victims" are fed up of your antics.
> 
> Nobody has a problem with your opinion. It is how you put them across and how you put down other users. Do not play the victim in this my friend, because you are not. Don't play such a victim 🤮 .
> 
> This thread has been derailed already, and i'll admit it's not your fault in this situation.
> 
> Can we get back to discussing AEW now.


I will only comment on one thing because I disagree with the rest of your post.

CattleClass, Carter, Prosper, Fire and even yourself aren't bad. Admittedly you WERE when you were being cringeworthy in these threads about minor ratings wins but your suspensions have lead to you being a big contributor here. Drew sent me some classic wrestling content just yesterday so he can't be that offended by me either although I did ask if he was a rejoiner (He was the only one) because he immediately came in looking for fights with "the haters". As for Carter, I like him also but just banter with him for the hell of it.

I only bring this up because I don't want those guys (Including yourself) thinking I don't like any of you. The only ones I dislike are the over the top to the point of insanity guys or the ones who make personal attacks.

But yes, lets go back to talking ratings with AEW. Will they do north of a million this week in your opinion? I think they maintain it.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEW this week 780k/.29 demo


----------



## Klitschko

AEW around 870k-900k with NXT back on Wed, but there will be interest because of Miro in my opinion.


----------



## bdon

On the topic of hater trolls and super fan trolls: y’all tend to dig ya feet in so deeply that you don’t dare entertain opposing thought of perception. It isn’t that you hate or love the product So much that you can’t see a differing opinion. No, most of the time the issue is that you have each went so goddamn full-bore retarded that you have created a Grand Canyon divide that you simply CAN’T hear the opposition.

I’ve been a member of this board for nearly a year now, and in that time I’ve done seen myself be the object of affection in “Let’s Go BDon!!! BDon Sucks!!” chants so many goddamn times that I’m unsure if I am heel or babyface on a nearly month-to-month basis. One minute I’m a super fan and being reported for baiting when I try to tag Wood to genuinely discuss the shit, getting lumped in with the super fan crowd. The next minute I’m a hater and being accused of being flat mates with the Aussies, despite saying hundreds of times I’m from WV.

The board would be a better place if both sides could listen and admit to the truths that the opposition speaks. Orange Cassidy does draw somewhat. Orange Cassidy is a bit of a comedy goof that drags down his opponent. Orange Cassidy CAN have really good matches as we seen with Pac. Orange Cassidy having even a really good match CAN potentially put a glass ceiling on the promotions mass appeal.

And the argument can extend to any number of topics besides just Orange Cassidy.

In the words of Rodney King, can’t we all just get along!?


----------



## bdon

AEW won’t crack a million this week, but I’d love to see it. Just tough to expect that when they barely cracked a million running a fallout show unopposed.


----------



## One Shed

It will definitely be interesting to see how things play out with both shows back in their normal spot. My guess is AEW will be back in the 800-900,000 range which would be a win in my book.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I think they'll be sub 900k, the botched promotion where they didn't know what night they'd be, and NXT will cost them 200k, that 1 million number is an aberration and not something we can expect consistently, at least not for now.


----------



## El Hammerstone

I really wish Dynamite and NXT could remain on different nights, but it is what it is.

I'll predict around 900K for the next show


----------



## Prosper

I’m thinking people wanting to see Miro will make up for some of the NXT slack. For some WWE fans, It’s either watch NXT live or watch “Rusev” on Dynamite who they used to watch on RAW. Some will pick AEW. They are also promoting a really strong card after a really good 8/10 promo heavy show last week. I’m predicting they hold strong at a little over 1 million even with NXT being on the same night.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Nah, back to 850 - 920

Miro will have a good effect though


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Miro will draw for sure. Just hoping they do something with him.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

The main event for Dynamite is Santana/Ortiz Vs. BF in the Parking Lot Fight, just don't know how much of a draw that'll be.

Could see them back down to high 700K, as long as they are above a .3 in the demo it's fine


----------



## TKO Wrestling

RelivingTheShadow said:


> The main event for Dynamite is Santana/Ortiz Vs. BF in the Parking Lot Fight, just don't know how much of a draw that'll be.
> 
> Could see them back down to high 700K, as long as they are above a .3 in the demo it's fine


I definitely expect high 700s. I hope AEW fans enjoyed getting to be King of their Mountains this last week because Thursday is going to be brutal for us!!


----------



## TD Stinger

Even with NXT competition back I'll still have them around 900-920k. I preface this again by saying I am awful at predicting these things.


----------



## Klitschko

Is there anything interesting announced for NXT?


----------



## rbl85

Klitschko said:


> Is there anything interesting announced for NXT?


Well they can't do better than last week


----------



## DaSlacker

RelivingTheShadow said:


> The main event for Dynamite is Santana/Ortiz Vs. BF in the Parking Lot Fight, just don't know how much of a draw that'll be.
> 
> Could see them back down to high 700K, as long as they are above a .3 in the demo it's fine


NXT have been blowing their load for months with world title changes, heel turns, cameos and wrestling heavy gimmick matches. Barring call-up's fom Raw, They are running out of road compared to AEW, which has done a slow burn towards The Elite break up and booked stories and characters conservatively. A Parking Lot Fight has the potential to attract those 150,000 18-34 casuals who prefer a bit of sports entertainment with a 2020's indie vibe. Hence Cassidy, Janela and Kiss, Bucks vs Butcher and Blade doing strong quarter hour numbers.


----------



## El Hammerstone

DaSlacker said:


> NXT have been blowing their load for months with world title changes, heel turns, cameos and wrestling heavy gimmick matches. Barring call-up's fom Raw, They are running out of road compared to AEW, which has done a slow burn towards The Elite break up and booked stories and characters conservatively. A Parking Lot Fight has the potential to attract those 150,000 18-34 casuals who prefer a bit of sports entertainment with a 2020's indie vibe. Hence Cassidy, Janela and Kiss, Bucks vs Butcher and Blade doing strong quarter hour numbers.


Why not build Janela and Kiss up for a tag title run then?


----------



## RiverFenix

Miro and Sabian will have a mic segment. I assume that will be to set up Miro's first match, probably next week in a tag match with Sabian against somebody who interrupts them on Wednesday. Will be interesting as Sabian was a heel, but Miro will be treated as a face by the fans. So probably Silver/Reynolds or maybe The Hybrid 2 seem most likely. SCu would have been a possibility in a straight up sportsman-like challenge but Kaz is wrestling Hangman.


----------



## Aedubya

.90


----------



## La Parka

El Hammerstone said:


> Why not build Janela and Kiss up for a tag title run then?


Kiss, Janela and OC should make a stable.

OC world champ. Kiss and Joey tag champs. 

Maybe stunt could join in and be the FTW champion.


----------



## VIP86

fingers crossed for another 1 million again this week
hard but doable if they step up their game and didn't show any cringeworthy segments


----------



## Erik.

La Parka said:


> Kiss, Janela and OC should make a stable.
> 
> OC world champ. Kiss and Joey tag champs.
> 
> Maybe stunt could join in and be the FTW champion.


Imagine. 

The salt from a section of this subsection would be worth bathing in.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I don't think Miro is going to be any kind of crazy bump, he was never a Moxley/Jericho level star.


----------



## Prosper

VIP86 said:


> fingers crossed for another 1 million again this week
> hard but doable if they step up their game and didn't show any cringeworthy segments


Janela and Kiss last week were as cringe as you can get but they still got a high cable viewership and demo. You never know what people want to see and when they want to see it.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

VIP86 said:


> fingers crossed for another 1 million again this week
> hard but doable if they step up their game and didn't show any cringeworthy segments


Mathematically impossible with NXT back. Even without NXT, AEW tends to valley after peaks. Smackdown is the only show consistently growing every week in the last month. Roman factor.


----------



## VIP86

TKO Wrestling said:


> Mathematically impossible with NXT back. Even without NXT, AEW tends to valley after peaks. Smackdown is the only show consistently growing every week in the last month. Roman factor.


it's not impossible since NXT has their own 600000 fans that don't watch AEW anyway
if the other 250000 chose AEW then it's doable


----------



## kingfrass44

other 250000 chose AEW you will be 900-800


----------



## El Hammerstone

Erik. said:


> Imagine.
> 
> The salt from a section of this subsection would be worth bathing in.


This should be AEW's main priority going forward; strap the rocket to Janela, Kiss, and Marko to own the haters.


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> Imagine.
> 
> The salt from a section of this subsection would be worth bathing in.


The three people left watching could meet up easier at least.


----------



## 3venflow

RAW did a 1.689 rating this week. Mitigating factors (NFL) but did anyone expect such a small difference in ratings between the two shows after a year? AEW is up against a brand with decades of exposure and history behind it. Whatever people say, it's going well and performing above TNT's expectations.


----------



## Erik.

El Hammerstone said:


> This should be AEW's main priority going forward; strap the rocket to Janela, Kiss, and Marko to own the haters.


Yeah, definitely.


----------



## Cult03

Honestly though, we are at a literal point where the AEW fans on this website would rather an embarrassing show that pushes troll wrestlers just to get a reaction out of the haters. If AEW didn't have those troll wrestlers, had shorter matches and did a few more of the things we have suggested you guys would watch right? So you guys would watch and the haters would watch and they'd have more of those precious numbers you guys love to twist and explain. Who loses? 

Why is wanting a better show a problem for you guys who would watch no matter what anyway? This place confuses the fuck out of me. There's trolls and there's people who really wanted this to be a fucking amazing wrestling show who feel let down that their favourite wrestlers are wrestling midgets and people who can't be bothered training. We don't necessarily want a serious wrestling product but a company that takes itself seriously, a company that is All Elite filled with the best talent and challenging WWE for their top stars and other indie talent, not just sometimes Elite, signing their mates and people who get a giggle out of 50 people at a local show.


----------



## TD Stinger

3venflow said:


> RAW did a 1.689 rating this week. Mitigating factors (NFL) but did anyone expect such a small difference in ratings between the two shows after a year? AEW is up against a brand with decades of exposure and history behind it. Whatever people say, it's going well and performing above TNT's expectations.


Covid and that 3rd hour have damaged Raw. I mean you look at AEW and they're doing some of their viewership they've ever done in their short existence and was able to keep their heads above water when the pandemic first hit. Same thing with NXT really. Even SD, I mean they just did 2.3 million for last week's show which was their best in months. So every show except Raw feels like it's rebounding or has rebounded.

But with Raw, it feels like having no crowds has accelerated their fall in viewership to the point where I'm not sure how well they'll even rebound even when crowds are back which is still going to take awhile to get them back. Add a 3rd hour and a show that is wildly inconsistent, you get what they're getting right now.


----------



## Not Lying

Cult03 said:


> Honestly though, we are at a literal point where the AEW fans on this website would rather an embarrassing show that pushes troll wrestlers just to get a reaction out of the haters. If AEW didn't have those troll wrestlers, had shorter matches and did a few more of the things we have suggested you guys would watch right? So you guys would watch and the haters would watch and they'd have more of those precious numbers you guys love to twist and explain. Who loses?
> 
> Why is wanting a better show a problem for you guys who would watch no matter what anyway? This place confuses the fuck out of me. There's trolls and there's people who really wanted this to be a fucking amazing wrestling show who feel let down that their favourite wrestlers are wrestling midgets and people who can't be bothered training. We don't necessarily want a serious wrestling product but a company that takes itself seriously, a company that is All Elite filled with the best talent and challenging WWE for their top stars and other indie talent, not just sometimes Elite, signing their mates and people who get a giggle out of 50 people at a local show.


lmao these guys have such a victim complex.

You Come, shit on the product, shit on 80% of the show, even shit on the booking of the talents you like, pretend you know what you are talking about 100%, wish the company would lose vs its competitor in ratings, spend every miserable second of your lives looking at any minuscule detail to amplify.You can't wait to turn against anything AEW and say they're just like WWE in culture, even if their controversies aren't as NEARLY bad as WWE. You are clearly trolling, you're all either super geeky Cornette cult members, or some desperate dweeb looking to shit on Tony Khan because you're just jealous he has money to do what you dream of. You have been using RETARDED excuses for a year every-time you shit on the product as well.
I've seen you all claim how some talent would make people turn off viewers, and it's been proven WRONG.

Then you little pathetic dweebs' best comebacks "oh these guys insulted us for our opinion", oh stfu you ain't fooling anyone. You turn every success story into "not good enough", you say stupid shit "i saw people claim they will get 2m and they're getting 800k so they suck". you fking dweeb, So were you upset at people who were optimistic for a company and wanted then to succeed, but conventionetly ignore that they were supposed to be getting 400-500k viewers by most analyst, and they are CRUSHING expectations, that's the definition of success.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> lmao these guys have such a victim complex.
> 
> You Come, shit on the product, shit on 80% of the show, even shit on the booking of the talents you like, pretend you know what you are talking about 100%, wish the company would lose vs its competitor in ratings, spend every miserable second of your lives looking at any minuscule detail to amplify.You can't wait to turn against anything AEW and say they're just like WWE in culture, even if their controversies aren't as NEARLY bad as WWE. You are clearly trolling, you're all either super geeky Cornette cult members, or some desperate dweeb looking to shit on Tony Khan because you're just jealous he has money to do what you dream of. You have been using RETARDED excuses for a year every-time you shit on the product as well.
> I've seen you all claim how some talent would make people turn off viewers, and it's been proven WRONG.
> 
> Then you little pathetic dweebs' best comebacks "oh these guys insulted us for our opinion", oh stfu you ain't fooling anyone. You turn every success story into "not good enough", you say stupid shit "i saw people claim they will get 2m and they're getting 800k so they suck". you fking dweeb, So were you upset at people who were optimistic for a company and wanted then to succeed, but conventionetly ignore that they were supposed to be getting 400-500k viewers by most analyst, and they are CRUSHING expectations, that's the definition of success.


- Calls Cornette fans geeks

- Is a huge AEW superfan.

Bruh, I won't touch on the rest because honestly it's all just completely wrong but have you looked at the AEW crowds when they had them? It was geek central and the stereotype of wrestling fans. A favourite story of mine was going to an indy show in December of last year and coming across a morbidly obese man cosplaying as Chris Jericho bragging about how he talked shit to Eric Bischoff (Never happened). He was talking to two guys who were sarcastically hitting him with "Oh really?" and allowing him to rant. I looked at a couple of my buddies and we started laughing at the guy (Not to his face, that'd be mean).

Without question the hardcore AEW fans are the geekiest sets of fans in pro wrestling history at least from my experience which is totally fine but don't use geek or nerd as an insult when you're a very very vocal member of that community. By the way, every guy that had an AEW shirt on that night was at least 15-20 kilos overweight and at the event alone.

What you're doing right now would be like a super vocal Brony saying that the hardcore fans of Star Trek are geeky and desperate dweebs. By the way, I think you'll find that Cornette's fans and regular listeners generally aren't so much geeky but are older (Probably 40+ to be honest).


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> - *Calls Cornette fans geeks*
> 
> - Is a huge AEW superfan.
> 
> Bruh, I won't touch on the rest because honestly it's all just completely wrong but have you looked at the AEW crowds when they had them? It was geek central and the stereotype of wrestling fans. A favourite story of mine was going to an indy show in December of last year and coming across a morbidly obese man cosplaying as Chris Jericho bragging about how he talked shit to Eric Bischoff (Never happened). He was talking to two guys who were sarcastically hitting him with "Oh really?" and allowing him to rant. I looked at a couple of my buddies and we started laughing at the guy (Not to his face, that'd be mean).
> 
> Without question the hardcore AEW fans are the geekiest sets of fans in pro wrestling history at least from my experience which is totally fine but don't use geek or nerd as an insult when you're a very very vocal member of that community. By the way, every guy that had an AEW shirt on that night was at least 15-20 kilos overweight and at the event alone.
> 
> What you're doing right now would be like a super vocal Brony saying that the hardcore fans of Star Trek are geeky and desperate dweebs. By the way, I think you'll find that Cornette's fans and regular listeners generally aren't so much geeky but are older (Probably 40+ to be honest).


FFS read better.

I didn't say Cornette fans, I said his super-fans, as in the losers who take it personal vs Bucks, AEW, and crap over any tiny "not realistic detail". I am a Cornette fans and I've had discussions with people like me, who like Cornette and AEW at the same time. But some of us can see behind what he says and we he means, others use him and don't see behind the curtain because they wana be full edgy haters vs AEW.

most wrestling fans are geeks, I've been to a few shows in my life, most fans are overweight geeks. I don't care, I accepted that wrestling appeals in a lot of degrees to geeks, or just losers. I have yet to meet even a semi-succesfull person in real life who watches wrestling. 

You're also someone who takes a very small sample of his life experiance and throw it at this forum as sort of general rule.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> I have yet to meet even a semi-succesfull person in real life who watches wrestling.


Define semi-successful. The president of the United States is/was a wrestling fan. Is that successful enough for you?


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> Define semi-successful. The president of the United States is/was a wrestling fan. Is that successful enough for you?


meet = to come into the presence of.
.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> meet = to come into the presence of.
> 
> I'm in one of the top 10 Business Schools in Europe and did a year in their South-East Asia campus. I've met hundreds of people. I can mention I watch Wrestling/UFC just to see if anyone else is interested in the sports of fighting. Of course there were UFC fans, but zero wrestling fans. The only other person I knew who watched wrestling was my roomate, told me they've got a date with a local indy pro wrestler, so I gave a few tips and talking point. Roomate eventually became a wrestling fan once they got to know the business like smart fans from hearing about it from a wrestler (they dated for like 1-1.5 years before breaking up).
> When I was doing my internship at a large bank in 2019, I told them I want to travel to NY to a few days for WM 35, the people didn't really know what that was but my superiors kind of teased me about and how i'm a fan of wrestling and willing to travel for an event (we had a good relationship so it's all love).


Fair enough, you didn't tell me what defines successful though. Is it top 10 schools in Europe or could successful be something like being a lawyer?

One of my regular fans brings himself and his two kids to my shows usually running in right before the opening match dressed in dress pants and dress shirt because he's just finished working at a local law firm. Not sure what kind of lawyer he is but he loves it and gets into it just as much as his little ones.

Also throughout life I've met Police Officers, Marketers, Nurses, Business Owners, Event Managers, Journalists etc who all love pro wrestling. I've also met a fair few who work jobs you'd expect to be more into wrestling such as truck drivers, security guards, mechanics, retail etc.

One thing I will say, many people at get togethers ask what I do and I always mention wrestling. MANY people always go "Aw wrestling? Fuck yeah I used to love that!" and talk about the old days. "Why don't you watch anymore?" I usually ask. Their response? "I would but it's all gotten so stupid and fake now".

To turn this back on topic, that's why AEW fans will never hit the casuals ever again. They want serious sports style wrestling with dramatic (But realistic) stories. They don't want Marko Stunt flossing or Cassidy beating ass with his hands in his pockets.


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> Fair enough, you didn't tell me what defines successful though. Is it top 10 schools in Europe or could successful be something like being a lawyer?
> 
> One of my regular fans brings himself and his two kids to my shows usually running in right before the opening match dressed in dress pants and dress shirt because he's just finished working at a local law firm. Not sure what kind of lawyer he is but he loves it and gets into it just as much as his little ones.
> 
> *Also throughout life I've met Police Officers, Marketers, Nurses, Business Owners, Event Managers, Journalists *etc who all love pro wrestling. I've also met a fair few who work jobs you'd expect to be more into wrestling such as truck drivers, security guards, mechanics, retail etc.
> 
> _One thing I will say, many people at get togethers ask what I do and I always mention wrestling. MANY people always go "Aw wrestling? Fuck yeah I used to love that!" and talk about the old days. "Why don't you watch anymore?" I usually ask. Their response? "I would but it's all gotten so stupid and fake now"._
> 
> To turn this back on topic, that's why AEW fans will never hit the casuals ever again. They want serious sports style wrestling with dramatic (But realistic) stories. They don't want Marko Stunt flossing or Cassidy beating ass with his hands in his pockets.


lol good for you. My definition of success is someone that is doing something selective/hard that not everyone could do, or, someone in a field of work (even if not selective) performing better than their peers and getting regularly promoted (these people are very driven usually and don't watch wrestling).
The "fat neckbeards with goofy shirt" stereotype was on full display for the few shows I attended, and I was like "oh, so, this is what most people think of wrestling fans".
I've learned to accept that. I'm confident in myself enough not let it bother me if someone "teases" me about wrestling. I know there are a lot of successful hardcore fans, but they must be so rare and scattered around the globe.

Your last point.
I don't buy it. Not that you're lying, but I don't believe for one second those people would watch again. Most these "I used to watch people", grew out of wrestling once they realized it was scripted, and felt stupid for watching it.
I bet you even if you present to them a show with 100% realism they will would stop watching within a couple of weeks. It is a lot harder to suspend your disbelief in wrestling for some people. 
AEW has a found a new approach for it. It is what it is.


----------



## La Parka

The Definition of Technician said:


> Your last point.
> I don't buy it. Not that you're lying, but I don't believe for one second those people would watch again. Most these "I used to watch people", grew out of wrestling once they realized it was scripted, and felt stupid for watching it.
> I bet you even if you present to them a show with 100% realism they will would stop watching within a couple of weeks. It is a lot harder to suspend your disbelief in wrestling for some people.
> AEW has a found a new approach for it. It is what it is.


I'm in my late 20's and have never met anyone who believed wrestling was real. I think the era of people believing that wrestling was real is a life time ago. There's still plenty of old wrestling fans who knew it was fake yet found it enjoyable. It was always sort of embarrassing in the attitude era / 90s WCW but they had entertaining acts like Austin, Hogan, Rock, Sting, Kane, HHH and many more to overcome embarrassing booking like Mark Henry and his hand. 

I think you'd have a hard time finding someone who watched the attitude era and thought the show was real at any point in their lives and these people would be in their late 20's / early 30's by now, so it's not like these people are 80 year olds who are outside of AEW prestigious demo. 

One of the problems with AEW is that the entire show is one big Mark Henry hand segment. It's not just a 5 min little giggle, its the entire 2 hour experience. Attitude era had its comedy but they were in the right place. Everyone loves Al Snow's head joke but no one wanted to see him headline a PPV with a big star for a laugh like OC / Jericho did.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> Your last point.
> I don't buy it. Not that you're lying, but I don't believe for one second those people would watch again. Most these "I used to watch people", grew out of wrestling once they realized it was scripted, and felt stupid for watching it.
> I bet you even if you present to them a show with 100% realism they will would stop watching within a couple of weeks. It is a lot harder to suspend your disbelief in wrestling for some people.
> AEW has a found a new approach for it. It is what it is.


Well, who knows if they genuinely would? I can only go off what they say but the main reason for people tuning out is because of how stupid or fake it's gotten. I'd say that is the reason for at least 75% of the 8-9 million people who have tuned out in the past 20 years.

I still believe in my heart and soul that people want a wrestling show featuring a mix of everything. Heavyweights with incredible physiques fighting over real issues, flashy junior heavyweights who do death-defying stunts, hot girls, compelling stories, good wrestling matches, big stars, occasional extreme violence (Not every week like they do now), unpredictability and yes, even a tiny little sprinkle of comedy.

First promotion to put that recipe together and do it properly will be rewarded with ratings supremacy.


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1305620933642600449


----------



## Not Lying

La Parka said:


> I'm in my late 20's and have never met anyone who believed wrestling was real. I think the era of people believing that wrestling was real is a life time ago. There's still plenty of old wrestling fans who knew it was fake yet found it enjoyable. It was always sort of embarrassing in the attitude era / 90s WCW but they had entertaining acts like Austin, Hogan, Rock, Sting, Kane, HHH and many more to overcome embarrassing booking like Mark Henry and his hand.
> 
> I think you'd have a hard time finding someone who watched the attitude era and thought the show was real at any point in their lives and these people would be in their late 20's / early 30's by now, so it's not like these people are 80 year olds who are outside of AEW prestigious demo.
> 
> One of the problems with AEW is that the entire show is one big Mark Henry hand segment. It's not just a 5 min little giggle, its the entire 2 hour experience. Attitude era had its comedy but they were in the right place. Everyone loves Al Snow's head joke but no one wanted to see him headline a PPV with a big star for a laugh like OC / Jericho did.





Chip Chipperson said:


> Well, who knows if they genuinely would? I can only go off what they say but the main reason for people tuning out is because of how stupid or fake it's gotten. I'd say that is the reason for at least 75% of the 8-9 million people who have tuned out in the past 20 years.
> 
> I still believe in my heart and soul that people want a wrestling show featuring a mix of everything. Heavyweights with incredible physiques fighting over real issues, flashy junior heavyweights who do death-defying stunts, hot girls, compelling stories, good wrestling matches, big stars, occasional extreme violence (Not every week like they do now), unpredictability and yes, even a tiny little sprinkle of comedy.
> 
> First promotion to put that recipe together and do it properly will be rewarded with ratings supremacy.


The two of you have a hard time accepting that this is not the problem. Explain the immediate decline of ratings post 2001, especially 2002-2004, because they still had the same stars and now WCW stars. Cornette said people wanted to believe Austin was this anti-hero badass, and then he turned heel and everyone was like "oh fuck this yeah he's one of the boys". It's still Stone Cold, there's still Rock, Taker, Kane, Foley. Yet the decline started in any case and there was no stopping it.

You had 2 boom periods in the span of 14 years and now. It's been 19 years without a "boom" period. A lot of the crash TV would not fly today. The over-sexualization of women would not fly today.

And finally, you're all acting ridiculous with this "I want the company to be better", because no you don't. You want to be better YOUR WAY, they have a vision, and they want to work on their vision and make it better.
*From the beginning, AEW said they are a buffet, and you have a lot of different segments on the show. They also said they want to appeal to the hardcore fans. *

And the difference between pure nitpicky haters and people who want the product to better, are people who are willing to be patient with the company, acknowledge the areas they need to work on to make their vision work. Instead of dooming AEW after a few segments like the oil crap with Nakazawa, you see that they don't it again on TV.

OC is one of the most over wrestlers on the AEW roster, and one of their biggest money makers. He got to work a program with Y2J, got his name out there, and he was elevated. Without a doubt. Instead of crapping on the guy 24/7, how about you acknoledge that the guy is hella impressive with the shit he does, and in this day and age where kayfabe is dead his shit works. Yet, clearly, there is character progression for him, and haters are not willing to give someone that 1- Over 2- Marketable 3- Good athlete because they're triggered.



ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1305620933642600449


They should throw an entire Bank at Daniel Bryan to join them nex year.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

What is ROH TV? Does he mean the TV show is back or is it a new way to watch past ROH events?


----------



## Cult03

The Definition of Technician said:


> meet = to come into the presence of.
> 
> *I'm in one of the top 10 Business Schools in Europe and did a year in their South-East Asia campus. I've met hundreds of people.* I can mention I watch Wrestling/UFC just to see if anyone else is interested in the sports of fighting. Of course there were UFC fans, but zero wrestling fans. The only other person I knew who watched wrestling was my roomate, told me they've got a date with a local indy pro wrestler, so I gave a few tips and talking point. Roomate eventually became a wrestling fan once they got to know the business like smart fans from hearing about it from a wrestler (they dated for like 1-1.5 years before breaking up).
> When I was doing my internship at a large bank in 2019, I told them I want to travel to NY to a few days for WM 35, the people didn't really know what that was but my superiors kind of teased me about and how i'm a fan of wrestling and willing to travel for an event (we had a good relationship so it's all love).


Watching people from your window isn't meeting people, weirdo. Weird brag though. I'VE MET PEOPLE I SWEAR!


----------



## Not Lying

Cult03 said:


> Sooooo none of this is true, but nice try. I can't even be bothered disputing this crap anymore. You're literally a fucking AEW dork who idolizes 4 foot tall adults because you relate to them. I can tell why you take this forum so seriously. It's because it's all you have. That's why you pay to use it, so you can show everyone that you left your mums basement once and someone felt so sorry for you that they let you work a few weeks, but it all came tumbling down the moment you had to serve a woman and stuttered throughout and embarrassed yourself. Go fuck yourself, you dork. I was one of those people who were optimistic, I don't "conventionetly" ignore anything. *You've mixed a few people together to create one big bad guy*. I'm not a Cornette fan at all, most of the time I wouldn't even know what his opinion is on any topic. But unlike some of you I possess the ability to think for myself. You're a joke and after reading that diatribe I'm not surprised you barely comprehend what is written in front of you.


You were saying 'we' you dork. Lmao. nice deflecting with absolute crap of which none is true 
I can't believe you're one to talk  I've been a member of this forum for like 7 years now, and been active on and off, and I'm not a cheapskate and can support companies I use their product on the regular. What an F on your analysis.
You have been active more in the AEW section *just to shit on the product*, how *pathetic* are you?  Just absolutely ignorant, pathetic and petty. Watch the show, complain, shit on people for enjoying a company succeed in a modern way because i'm a miserable pathetic loser, repeat.
low-life hater who is jealous of others success' because they don't do things you way.


----------



## Cult03

The Definition of Technician said:


> You were saying 'we' you dork. Lmao. nice deflecting with absolute crap of which none is true
> I can't believe you're one to talk  I've been a member of this forum for like 7 years now, and been active on and off, and I'm not a cheapskate and can support companies I use their product on the regular. What an F on your analysis.
> You have been active more in the AEW section *just to shit on the product*, how *pathetic* are you?  Just absolutely ignorant, pathetic and petty. Watch the show, complain, shit on people for enjoying a company succeed in a modern way because i'm a miserable pathetic loser, repeat.
> low-life hater who is jealous of others success' because they don't do things you way.


Doesn't surprise me that you have to lie to make your argument seem legitimate. There's about five of you that can't separate people and continue to paint me as a Cornette fan or someone who hasn't created thread after thread about what I like about AEW, listed hundreds of independent wrestlers the company should look at and praised half of the show for months on end. You're dishonest or just fucking stupid, probably both.


----------



## Not Lying

Cult03 said:


> Doesn't surprise me that you have to lie to make your argument seem legitimate. There's about five of you that can't separate people and continue to paint me as a Cornette fan or someone who hasn't created thread after thread about what I like about AEW, listed hundreds of independent wrestlers the company should look at and praised half of the show for months on end. You're dishonest or just fucking stupid, probably both.


  nah you're a fucking delusional loser. I do feel sorry for you. You post 1 time some crappy backhanded compliment about what you like, and then shit on everything else for 90%, and then go back to 1 good thing you said to pat yourself on the back. Delusional moron.


----------



## Cult03

The Definition of Technician said:


> nah you're a fucking delusional loser. I do feel sorry for you. You post 1 time some crappy backhanded compliment about what you like, and then shit on everything else for 90%, and then go back to 1 good thing you said to pat yourself on the back. Delusional moron.


People usually hate being wrong but holy shit, you revel in it.


----------



## Not Lying

Cult03 said:


> People usually hate being wrong but holy shit, you revel in it.


People usually snap out of their delusions but you're too far gone.


----------



## Cult03

The Definition of Technician said:


> People usually snap out of their delusions but you're too far gone.


Let me know when you say something that isn't created in a delusional state you hypocrite. You'd think someone who goes to one of the top ten business schools in Europe and knows over a hundred people would be a bit too busy to be on here at 2pm on a Wednesday afternoon


----------



## Not Lying

Cult03 said:


> Let me know when you say something that isn't created in a delusional state you hypocrite. You'd think someone who goes to one of the top ten business schools in Europe and knows over a hundred people would be a bit too busy to be on here at 2pm on a Wednesday afternoon


Nope. School hasn't started yet, so I got little more time to chill, go on here and call out hypocrites and people with victim complex.


----------



## Cult03

The Definition of Technician said:


> Nope. School hasn't started yet, so I got little more time to chill, go on here and call out hypocrites and people with victim complex.


Woah, knows a hundred people, top 10 business school in Europe and is the internet police. What a resume you must have. Still, not being able to speak to a woman in real life must make it difficult for you.


----------



## Not Lying

Cult03 said:


> Woah, knows a hundred people, top 10 business school in Europe and is the internet police. What a resume you must have. Still, not being able to speak to a woman in real life must make it difficult for you.


  Woah. What a terribly weak last rebuttal on your part, that wouldn't follow even the logic in your sentence. I shouldn't expect more from a loser that analyses a show he hates and complains about it on a forum where he love to play a victim. Truly, pathetic and tragic.


----------



## Cult03

The Definition of Technician said:


> Woah. What a terribly weak last rebuttal on your part, that wouldn't follow even the logic in your sentence. I shouldn't expect more from a loser that analyses a show he hates and complains about it on a forum where he love to play a victim. Truly, pathetic and tragic.


I teach children that have better comprehension skills than you. "Wouldn't follow even the logic in your sentence" makes no sense, but neither has your entire argument. You know what they say, winning an argument on the internet is like winning a gold medal at the special Olympics. You might have won but you're still fucking retarded. I'm out. Enjoy your holidays and I hope you do well at business school with your one hundred friends that you definitely have.


----------



## Not Lying

Cult03 said:


> *I teach* children that have better comprehension skills than you. "Wouldn't follow even the logic in your sentence" makes no sense, but neither has your entire argument. You know what they say, winning an argument on the internet is like winning a gold medal at the special Olympics. You might have won but you're still fucking retarded. I'm out. Enjoy your holidays and I hope you do well at business school with your one hundred *friends* that you definitely have.


*Ok *Mr. Teacher with great comprehension skills whos best answers now is making shit. Good Luck to you too, may you find happiness in a wrestling show


----------



## Hermann

Cult03 said:


> Honestly though, we are at a literal point where the AEW fans on this website would rather an embarrassing show that pushes troll wrestlers just to get a reaction out of the haters. If AEW didn't have those troll wrestlers, had shorter matches and did a few more of the things we have suggested you guys would watch right? So you guys would watch and the haters would watch and they'd have more of those precious numbers you guys love to twist and explain. Who loses?
> 
> Why is wanting a better show a problem for you guys who would watch no matter what anyway? This place confuses the fuck out of me. There's trolls and there's people who really wanted this to be a fucking amazing wrestling show who feel let down that their favourite wrestlers are wrestling midgets and people who can't be bothered training. We don't necessarily want a serious wrestling product but a company that takes itself seriously, a company that is All Elite filled with the best talent and challenging WWE for their top stars and other indie talent, not just sometimes Elite, signing their mates and people who get a giggle out of 50 people at a local show.


I just like Kiss & Janela. You could throw Marko Stunt into a fire and I wouldn't bat an eye.


----------



## DammitChrist

Cult03 said:


> Sooooo none of this is true, but nice try. I can't even be bothered disputing this crap anymore. *You're literally a fucking AEW dork who idolizes 4 foot tall adults because you relate to them. I can tell why you take this forum so seriously. It's because it's all you have. That's why you pay to use it, so you can show everyone that you left your mums basement once and someone felt so sorry for you that they let you work a few weeks, but it all came tumbling down the moment you had to serve a woman and stuttered throughout and embarrassed yourself. Go fuck yourself, you dork.*I was one of those people who were optimistic, I don't "conventionetly" ignore anything. You've mixed a few people together to create one big bad guy. I'm not a Cornette fan at all, most of the time I wouldn't even know what his opinion is on any topic. But unlike some of you I possess the ability to think for myself. You're a joke and after reading that diatribe I'm not surprised you barely comprehend what is written in front of you.


Why are you making this response to his original comment deeply personal here? What the fuck is the matter with you?

Outside of that short phrasing about jealousy of Tony Khan (which was a pretty minor remark), he didn’t even say anything that warranted that vile response.

For the record, we’re ALL geeks here; so that shouldn’t even be up for debate.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

I find this whole debate about wrestling fans being fat, overweight and unsuccessful slobs to be a bit ridiculous to be honest. What the fuck does somebody's appearance have to do with how successful they are? It's just odd in the extreme. Generalisations are almost always a waste of time. The definition of successful is so subjective a topic that it's almost meaningless to discuss it too. Some look at business and money as the definition of successful. Others work in fields that will never lead to financial wealth, but are no less successful in their fields. We're all wrestling fans ffs, the last thing we need is to turn on each other over the most meaningless and pointless of reasons.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Freezer Geezer said:


> *I find this whole debate about wrestling fans being fat,* overweight and unsuccessful slobs to be a bit ridiculous to be honest. What the fuck does somebody's appearance have to do with how successful they are? It's just odd in the extreme. Generalisations are almost always a waste of time. The definition of successful is so subjective a topic that it's almost meaningless to discuss it too. Some look at business and money as the definition of successful. Others work in fields that will never lead to financial wealth, but are no less successful in their fields. We're all wrestling fans ffs, the last thing we need is to turn on each other over the most meaningless and pointless of reasons.


I’m fat

but i’m the strong kinda fat! 

(name the movie without googling)


----------



## Freezer Geezer

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m fat
> 
> but i’m the strong kinda fat!
> 
> (name the movie without googling)


I've never actually seen that. 🤣 I had to Google.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

La Parka said:


> I'm in my late 20's and have never met anyone who believed wrestling was real. I think the era of people believing that wrestling was real is a life time ago. There's still plenty of old wrestling fans who knew it was fake yet found it enjoyable. It was always sort of embarrassing in the attitude era / 90s WCW but they had entertaining acts like Austin, Hogan, Rock, Sting, Kane, HHH and many more to overcome embarrassing booking like Mark Henry and his hand.
> 
> I think you'd have a hard time finding someone who watched the attitude era and thought the show was real at any point in their lives and these people would be in their late 20's / early 30's by now, so it's not like these people are 80 year olds who are outside of AEW prestigious demo.
> 
> One of the problems with AEW is that the entire show is one big Mark Henry hand segment. It's not just a 5 min little giggle, its the entire 2 hour experience. Attitude era had its comedy but they were in the right place. Everyone loves Al Snow's head joke but no one wanted to see him headline a PPV with a big star for a laugh like OC / Jericho did.


when did OC Jericho headline? I'm genuinely asking because I don't remember.


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

aew is picking up traction with major viewers here is an la laker affiliate 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306421757507637255


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Freezer Geezer said:


> I find this whole debate about wrestling fans being fat, overweight and unsuccessful slobs to be a bit ridiculous to be honest. What the fuck does somebody's appearance have to do with how successful they are? It's just odd in the extreme. Generalisations are almost always a waste of time. The definition of successful is so subjective a topic that it's almost meaningless to discuss it too. Some look at business and money as the definition of successful. Others work in fields that will never lead to financial wealth, but are no less successful in their fields. We're all wrestling fans ffs, the last thing we need is to turn on each other over the most meaningless and pointless of reasons.


We're obviously not all fat or unsuccessful. I'm an average build guy with a full time job, partner, friends etc and most of us here probably are.

But the example I used of the AEW fan that guy definitely seemed like he lived in the backroom of his mums house watching Japanese wrestling all day. He didn't know how to communicate with people, was grossly overweight, didn't look halfway presentable and was just acting socially awkward.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> We're obviously not all fat or unsuccessful. I'm an average build guy with a full time job, partner, friends etc and most of us here probably are.
> 
> But the example I used of the AEW fan that guy definitely seemed like he lived in the backroom of his mums house watching Japanese wrestling all day. He didn't know how to communicate with people, was grossly overweight, didn't look halfway presentable and was just acting socially awkward.


Heh. I told you about my brother getting back into wrestling for the first time in 15 years, right @Chip Chipperson?

Well, today he was venting about his women troubles, and how being single is so weird for him after a decade of marriage. He texts me today, “I think I’m going to swear off women for a few months. Get myself comfortable just being me and gaining some hobbies. AEW on tonight..?”

Now at the exact same time I’m asking if he was ready to admit to being a wrestling fan again.

When I read his text, I told him I’ll take it to mean that he is going full-on, diehard nerdy wrestling fan and just using the stress of juggling women as a ploy to explain away his inability to get ladies due to the wrestling fandom. Heh.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> Heh. I told you about my brother getting back into wrestling for the first time in 15 years, right @Chip Chipperson?
> 
> Well, today he was venting about his women troubles, and how being single is so weird for him after a decade of marriage. He texts me today, “I think I’m going to swear off women for a few months. Get myself comfortable just being me and gaining some hobbies. AEW on tonight..?”
> 
> Now at the exact same time I’m asking if he was ready to admit to being a wrestling fan again.
> 
> When I read his text, I told him I’ll take it to mean that he is going full-on, diehard nerdy wrestling fan and just using the stress of juggling women as a ploy to explain away his inability to get ladies due to the wrestling fandom. Heh.


I did not know about that at all. Sounds like he's a man going his own way though which is admirable as fuck.

No worries for him though if he becomes a nerdy wrestling fan he can find a female wrestling fan. They're all super hot.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> I did not know about that at all. Sounds like he's a man going his own way though which is admirable as fuck.
> 
> No worries for him though if he becomes a nerdy wrestling fan he can find a female wrestling fan. They're all super hot.


Ah. I thought I’d told you about him mocking me the last 11 months for watching wrestling again after 2 decades. I made him sit down and watch the episode when Starks’ back got destroyed, and he’s been sheepishly asking what time the shows start or what happened with “so and so” if he happens to miss an episode.

But yeah, I agree. My wife didn’t start out a wrestling fan, but she’s into it now.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1305620933642600449


They won't though because IT'S A BINGO HALL LOLZ! NO PRODUCTION VALUEZ! GEEKZ AND MIDGETZ EVERYWHEREZ!


----------



## zkorejo

The Raw Smackdown said:


> They won't though because IT'S A BINGO HALL LOLZ! NO PRODUCTION VALUEZ! GEEKZ AND MIDGETZ EVERYWHEREZ!


Lol.. true. They always have something to whine about.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Raw Smackdown said:


> They won't though because IT'S A BINGO HALL LOLZ! NO PRODUCTION VALUEZ! GEEKZ AND MIDGETZ EVERYWHEREZ!


Shit thats my favorite thing about ROH, it doesn't look like a game show.


----------



## omaroo

Good show but think will between 800k-900k today


----------



## Prosper

I’m gonna go with 950K, another great show last night


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TKO Wrestling said:


> Shit thats my favorite thing about ROH, it doesn't look like a game show.


Yeah, I've always dug the gritty looks in wrestling as well.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

That main event will get the DVRs humming

might put them on 950 i agree

0.32 again I recon


----------



## Y2K23

930-ish 

No way the break a million with NXT on the other side.


----------



## Prosper

Y2K23 said:


> 930-ish
> 
> No way the break a million with NXT on the other side.


I heard NXT was actually really good last night too, read that Io Shirai and Shotzi Blackheart burned the house down in the opener, gotta see it later


----------



## rexmundi

I tend to go conservative with my ratings prediction. I'll go with AEW 851K .32 NXT 713K .18


----------



## Not Lying

I'll go with 840K


----------



## NathanMayberry

prosperwithdeen said:


> I’m gonna go with 950K, another great show last night


Ummm this was you a few days ago..


----------



## Prosper

NathanMayberry said:


> Ummm this was you a few days ago..


I thought NXT would stay on Tuesday night. With them being back on Wed, they will take some of their cable viewers. Not saying that they can't hit 1.4 by Full Gear though it could still happen after a strong Anniversary show.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Im sticking with .29 rating with 789k viewers. They always drop hard after big ratings.


----------



## rich110991

I hope they get 900k+


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, I've always dug the gritty looks in wrestling as well.


Honestly, this is like #4 on my list of things that annoys me about WWE today. It looks too shiny. Old school RAW was awesome.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

886 AEW .34

689 NXT .18

Not bad, weak show on paper but great execution. NXT def hurts them but NBA not being on helps.


----------



## RiverFenix

Showbuzz Daily reports that AEW Dynamite brought in an overnight average of 886,000 viewers. WWE NXT brought in less than that with 689,000 viewers.


----------



## bdon

I knew they were going to drop into the 8’s. The show’s first hour and a half did nothing to advance storylines.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Sue the Savage.


----------



## 3venflow

The memes have started already.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306684790192574465


----------



## Ozell Gray

Expected drop for Dynamite.


----------



## Buhalovski

Do you guys really thought they would get 1m second week in a row? Still pretty decent, its 2020 and it is what it is.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Good demo rating, the theme of AEW is that they continue to raise the floor of their weaker viewership numbers. I imagine a lot of people will be disappointed by this number, but 2 months ago AEW would've been ecstatic pulling this.


----------



## bdon

These guys are so goddamn stupid sometimes. You come off a fucking PPV, world’s eyes on your product begging for more of the story, and what do you do?

Take your fucking foot off the gas pedal. Goddamn they really know how to piss me off.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Tsvetoslava said:


> Do you guys really thought they would get 1m second week in a row? Still pretty decent, its 2020 and it is what it is.


It's not pretty good, it's really good, last week was an aberration with it being unopposed, they probably won't get 1 million again for a while. Them doing 886K .34 for a weak show on paper means way more than them doing 1 million .37 for an unopposed night.


----------



## RiverFenix

I think it's a very solid number given their H2H with NXT again and beat them by near 200K viewers.


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite was ranked #3 for all of cable for the night. NXT was ranked #31.


----------



## Not Lying

Tsvetoslava said:


> Do you guys really thought they would get 1m second week in a row? Still pretty decent, its 2020 and it is what it is.


Nope. As soon as it was announced they will be opposed to NXT everyone adjusted their expectations.
20% is about right with competition + weaker show/no PPV bump.
This is still a really good number. NXT doing in the 600ks again when they could be doing 800k+ and and build from it should make them reconsider more the move to tuesday.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

That 0.34 is sweet

better than what i thought

0.36 was their unopposed figure

so, just a 0.02 drop is amazing


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> That 0.34 is sweet
> 
> better than what i thought
> 
> 0.36 was their unopposed figure
> 
> so, just a 0.02 drop is amazing


.37 was unopposed, this is 2nd best opposed demo number since March 18th(and tbf NXT ran a clip special episode so you can make the argument they were unopposed that week)


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> These guys are so goddamn stupid sometimes. You come off a fucking PPV, world’s eyes on your product begging for more of the story, and what do you do?
> 
> *Take your fucking foot off the gas pedal*. Goddamn they really know how to piss me off.


Stop smoking


----------



## Prosper

Good number but disappointing drop off. Both shows lost roughly 200K+ viewers. Its best that AEW and NXT are just on different nights. Better for the industry as a whole.




bdon said:


> These guys are so goddamn stupid sometimes. You come off a fucking PPV, world’s eyes on your product begging for more of the story, and what do you do?
> 
> Take your fucking foot off the gas pedal. Goddamn they really know how to piss me off.


Lol except they didn’t this time. Last weeks fall out show was great and this week’s show was awesome too. It’s just that you have NXT sharing viewers on Wed night again. They certainly did not take the foot off the pedal.


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> Stop smoking


Oh, so you think last night advanced any stories in that first hour and a half?


----------



## DammitChrist

bdon said:


> These guys are so goddamn stupid sometimes. You come off a fucking PPV, world’s eyes on your product begging for more of the story, and what do you do?
> 
> Take your fucking foot off the gas pedal.* Goddamn they really know how to piss me off.*


What the fuck are you even pissed off about?

You had 4 really good matches (ESPECIALLY that main-event with the Parking Lot fight), a solid women's match with Ivelisse vs Thunder Rosa, a fun chaotic segment involving the AEW World Champion that sets up a compelling 6-man tag match for next week, and that entertaining segment where Eddie Kingston got his entire group to assault the "fans" in the front row. This was at least 80-85% of the entire episode last night too.

I thought last week's show was really good, but I honestly preferred last night's episode even more.

They deserve a mini-spike for next week's Dynamite episode after all the good highlights from last night.


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> Good number but disappointing drop off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol except they didn’t this time. Last weeks fall out show was great and this week’s show was awesome too. It’s just that you have NXT sharing viewers on Wed night again. They certainly did not take the foot off the pedal.


The first hour and a half was full of filler shit that does nothing for story progression.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RelivingTheShadow said:


> .37 was unopposed, this is 2nd best opposed demo number since March 18th(and tbf NXT ran a clip special episode so you can make the argument they were unopposed that week)


ah, thought it was 0.36

regardless - 0.03 drop is solid

thinking it was 0.24 like a month and a half ago


----------



## Erik.

Expected that to be honest.

Still a good number opposed - probably deserved higher though, genuinely one of the best Dynamites they've ever done.

But this is exactly why Vince isn't going to move NXT - because they'll take that hit if it means Dynamite doesn't get more and more eyes on it.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

DammitChrist said:


> What the fuck are you even pissed off about?
> 
> You had 4 really good matches (ESPECIALLY that main-event with the Parking Lot fight), a solid women's match with Ivelisse vs Thunder Rosa, a fun chaotic segment involving the AEW World Champion that sets up a compelling 6-tag match for next week, and that entertaining segment where Eddie Kingston got his entire group to assault the "fans" in the front row. This was at least 80-85% of the entire episode last night too.
> 
> I thought last week's show was really good, but I honestly preferred last night's episode even more.
> 
> They deserve a mini-spike for next week's Dynamite episode after all the good highlights from last night.


People get so antsy about week to week ratings, that's not important, it's the long term trajectory. I'll bring it up until I'm blue in the face, but AEW is doing a phenomenal job raising the floor of their viewership, less than two months ago people were speaking on the demise of the company because of that 633k number, and now a 886k .34 number is a disappointment?

Get real, this is a great number, people were too excited over last weeks number, obviously head to head wrestling competition is gonna hurt them.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> Oh, so you think last night advanced any stories in that first hour and a half?


If you think that AEW was going to do the same ratings than last week then you have a big problem in your head.

Last week if NXT was on AEW would have done mid 900.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> The first hour and a half was full of filler shit that does nothing for story progression.


Lol come on man Hangman/Kaz and FTR/JE was certainly not "filler shit". There was a little advancement with Omega at commentary and the first hour featured non-stop, non-flippy action and great wrestling. Last week was nothing but promos. There was nothing wrong with last night's show, it was actually one of the best episodes they have ever had. But NXT will always be a problem with cable viewership growth.

Last night's show definitely deserved 1 million+ viewers and if they were unopposed, they may have hit it.


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> If you think that AEW was going to do the same ratings than last week then you have a big problem in your head.
> 
> Last week if NXT was on AEW would have done mid 900.


You’ll never grow if you always go into these boring hold periods, kicking rocks and waiting for these “big Dynamite specials” before trying to hook people with advancing storylines.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I expect NXT to start winning some weeks here, Survivor Series is coming up and you know WWE will load up NXT with main roster guys.

I expect Roman, AJ, Seth, Drew all to be on NXT.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

bdon said:


> You’ll never grow if you always go into these boring hold periods, kicking rocks and waiting for these “big Dynamite specials” before trying to hook people with advancing storylines.


Bruh, they literally have seen legitimate growth over the past two months, pull your head out of your ass.


----------



## Erik.

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol come on man Hangman/Kaz and FTR/JE was certainly not "filler shit". There was a little advancement with Omega at commentary and the first hour featured non-stop, non-flippy action and great wrestling. Last week was nothing but promos. There was nothing wrong with last night's show, it was actually one of the best episodes they have ever had. But NXT will always be a problem with cable viewership growth.
> 
> Last night's show definitely deserved 1 million+ viewers and if they were unopposed, they may have hit it.


It was better than last weeks show. Quite comfortably.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Wait for the 50+ at the end 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306684694331826180


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol come on man Hangman/Kaz and FTR/JE was certainly not "filler shit". There was a little advancement with Omega at commentary and the first hour featured non-stop, non-flippy action and great wrestling. Last week was nothing but promos. There was nothing wrong with last night's show, it was actually one of the best episodes they have ever had. But NXT will always be a problem with cable viewership growth.


Ok. You and AEW just keep waving the white flag, refusing to put together good storylines between Fallout Show and Dynamite specials. Optikk and I both predicted this shit.

Match, match, match, match...I was literally falling asleep during Jericho’s match. Thank God for the Archer/Mox/Will Hobbs stuff.

That first hour and a half was NXT-level shit: it isn’t inherently “stupid”, but it did nothing to progress any stories. Want people to join in and grow the product? You might want to give them reason to believe they can’t miss the next episode.


----------



## Klitschko

Disappointing rating to me. Was hoping they could stay in the 900's.


----------



## bdon

Klitschko said:


> Disappointing rating to me. Was hoping they could stay in the 900's.


They SHOULD have stayed in the 900’s. That is where they were just 2-3 fucking weeks ago opposed.

BUT! They had their PPV, so they had to go into their hold period of lazy episodes.


----------



## Erik.

Just realised they were 3rd in the demo.

That's mightily impressive. Keep it up AEW.

Keep the mix of brilliant promos and excellent ring work (though save your best ring work for PPVs please) and the good times will continue. Killed it last night and next weeks show looks a banger too.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> Ok. You and AEW just keep waving the white flag, refusing to put together good storylines between Fallout Show and Dynamite specials. Optikk and I both predicted this shit.
> 
> Match, match, match, match...I was literally falling asleep during Jericho’s match. Thank God for the Archer/Mox/Will Hobbs stuff.
> 
> That first hour and a half was NXT-level shit: it isn’t inherently “stupid”, but it did nothing to progress any stories. Want people to join in and grow the product? You might want to give them reason to believe they can’t miss the next episode.


Last week was ALL storyline driven my guy with almost no real wrestling 😂 

Next week's show will more than likely have plenty of story advancement, last night's show was anything but lazy they offered more action heavy content this week there's nothing wrong with that.

Coming off of last week's story heavy show, that was plenty of reason for them to tune in this week, but you can never truly predict these things.


----------



## Klitschko

Is there anything big announced for next week, other then the big 6 man tag?


----------



## SPCDRI

Klitschko said:


> Disappointing rating to me. Was hoping they could stay in the 900's.


That's the second best number they'd done with NXT as competition in the whole COVID-19 era and the best they've done in people 18-49 demo wise for the night ever.
Number 1 in males 12-34, males 18-49 and number 3 in the People 18-49 demo and beating their direct pro wrestling competition by 197,000 total viewers, that's a huge win for AEW.


----------



## RiverFenix

Klitschko said:


> Is there anything big announced for next week, other then the big 6 man tag?


Rosa and Shida team up against Ivelisse and Diamante, Brodie vs Orange Cassidy for TNT Title and one other something I know I'm forgetting.


----------



## Prosper

Klitschko said:


> Is there anything big announced for next week, other then the big 6 man tag?


Just the 6 man tag, OC/Brodie for the TNT Title, and Rosa/Shida vs Ivelisse/Diamante announced so far. Moxley and OC will draw for sure seeing as they are advertised in an in-ring role.


----------



## Erik.

Klitschko said:


> Is there anything big announced for next week, other then the big 6 man tag?


Brodie Lee vs. Orange Cassidy for the TNT title.
Shida & Thunder Rosa vs. Ivelisse & DIamante

Are the other two matches confirmed.

I reckon we'll likely see Omega in action though.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

bdon said:


> They SHOULD have stayed in the 900’s. That is where they were just 2-3 fucking weeks ago opposed.
> 
> BUT! They had their PPV, so they had to go into their hold period of lazy episodes.


They did 901k the week they promoted a Jon Moxley title defense.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Fantastic rating.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> They SHOULD have stayed in the 900’s. That is where they were just *2-3 fucking weeks ago opposed.*
> 
> BUT! They had their PPV, so they had to go into their hold period of lazy episodes.


Nope


----------



## rbl85

Erik. said:


> Brodie Lee vs. Orange Cassidy for the TNT title.
> Shida & Thunder Rosa vs. Ivelisse & DIamante
> 
> Are the other two matches confirmed.
> 
> I reckon we'll likely see Omega in action though.


Mox, Hobbs and Darby vs Archer, Cage and Starks


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> Nope


They didn’t do above 900k just a couple weeks ago?


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> They didn’t do above 900k just a couple weeks ago?


Yes but NXT wasn't on


----------



## Not Lying

RelivingTheShadow said:


> They did 901k the week they promoted a Jon Moxley title defense.


Well, yeah, everytime they get in a little rough period, they should build something on TV around Moxley, they'll get a ratings bump. The weeks Sasha was there on NXT and they got destroyed in the ratings was also due to the fact that Moxley was out because Renee go covid. Then Moxley vs Cage was a big draw main event match, despite their earlier segments in Q7 not doing so well. He has a huge influence on the audience, a big number tune in just for him.


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

aew is surging in the 18-34 demos bruh they were 3rd advertisers r going to eat this up


----------



## CMPunkRock316

This is a really solid number IMHO. Demo barely dropped and rolled NXT solidly.


----------



## DaSlacker

PushCrymeTyme said:


> aew is surging in the 18-34 demos bruh they were 3rd advertisers r going to eat this up


A WWE show opposing them and getting squashed in the demo every week could be beneficial for AEW. Despite Raw's unopposed numbers doing a .48, it signals to suits that AEW is the more 'hip' brand.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> These guys are so goddamn stupid sometimes. You come off a fucking PPV, world’s eyes on your product begging for more of the story, and what do you do?
> 
> Take your fucking foot off the gas pedal. Goddamn they really know how to piss me off.


It’s definitely an issue with AEW, but I can already see that they’re trying to work on it. That six man tag next week is definite storyline profession. I just hope they can continue at a decent pace.


----------



## The XL 2

NXT got crushed. Not surprising, all of their top guys are bland 140lbs spot monkeys


----------



## omaroo

I dont know why some believe they will be doing 1.4 in ratings in a few months.

Will be years imo for them to reach to 1.5 in the ratings.


----------



## DaSlacker

omaroo said:


> I dont know why some believe they will be doing 1.4 in ratings in a few months.
> 
> Will be years imo for them to reach to 1.5 in the ratings.


I doubt they ever will. Cable is a medium in perennial decline. 

Unopposed and in front of crowds could boost their number to 1.1 million average. Maybe if WarnerMedia pushed it via simulcasts. Bringing in more talent with a bit of name value to feud with the AEW top names. Unfortunately wrestling is a tired genre and that uphill gradient is too big of an ask imo. Dynamite would need to be akin to Game of Thrones circa 2014 in pop culture to achieve 25 to 50% growth.

My likely scenario: WWE Raw continues to drop towards 1 million viewers over the next few years and TNT or TBS revives the Monday Night Wars.


----------



## 304418

3rd in the demo. Good for AEW. Very good.

NXT just needs to fuck off to either Tuesdays or back to the Network. Their weekly ratings are embarrassing and they aren’t helping anyone with the weekly war crap. All they are succeeding at is not making their brand cool to watch anymore. Which means there is genuinely nothing to watch in WWE.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ex


DaSlacker said:


> I doubt they ever will. Cable is a medium in perennial decline.
> 
> Unopposed and in front of crowds could boost their number to 1.1 million average. Maybe if WarnerMedia pushed it via simulcasts. Bringing in more talent with a bit of name value to feud with the AEW top names. Unfortunately wrestling is a tired genre and that uphill gradient is too big of an ask imo. Dynamite would need to be akin to Game of Thrones circa 2014 in pop culture to achieve 25 to 50% growth.
> 
> My likely scenario: WWE Raw continues to drop towards 1 million viewers over the next few years and TNT or TBS revives the Monday Night Wars.


This is the most likely scenario for sure


----------



## taker1986

Very good. I was expecting 750-800 considering this looked like a filler show with no big name matches. This is very encouraging that they can pull a strong viewing figure like that with 2 mid card tag teams as the main event.


----------



## Chan Hung

Shocked it did this well. To be honest the show was pretty shit, but i was shocked i enjoyed the main event more than i thought i would.


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> Shocked it did this well. To be honest *the show was pretty shit*, but i was shocked i enjoyed the main event more than i thought i would.


probably the best show since a long time


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

Chan Hung said:


> Shocked it did this well. To be honest the show was pretty shit, but i was shocked i enjoyed the main event more than i thought i would.


if you found that show to be shit i cringe to think what you find good


----------



## Prosper

Chan Hung said:


> Shocked it did this well. To be honest the show was pretty shit, but i was shocked i enjoyed the main event more than i thought i would.


Dynamite was awesome this week, I genuinely gave it 9/10.

I'm curious to read why you thought it was shit? Do explain.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Damn, 13 pages in the AEW section (Cornette got it another 5 pages) and a 200,000 drop off.

Where are they going wrong? Maybe Moxley on top is boring the people? I don't know.


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> Damn, *13 pages in the AEW* section (Cornette got it another 5 pages) and a 200,000 drop off.
> 
> Where are they going wrong? Maybe Moxley on top is boring the people? I don't know.


this is the new low reach now?

😂 😂😂 #3rd in demo.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Damn, 13 pages in the AEW section (Cornette got it another 5 pages) and a 200,000 drop off.
> 
> Where are they going wrong? Maybe Moxley on top is boring the people? I don't know.


Nah. They just put together a blah show. It had good matches, but outside of the final 30 minutes, nothing happened to really advance any storylines. Also important to keeping things quiet, there wasn’t anything inherently stupid.

It was just there. Like I hear many using to describe NXT. Solid but nothing flashy.

And after the last 3 weeks or so, AEW just doing “a solid show” feels like a massive letdown for me at least.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> Damn, 13 pages in the AEW section (Cornette got it another 5 pages) and a 200,000 drop off.
> 
> Where are they going wrong? Maybe Moxley on top is boring the people? I don't know.


they were top 5 in dat demo and no real drop off. 

1M last week cuz NXT wasnt on.


----------



## thorn123

It was a great show, even though it had mid carders in the main event. I don’t get why more people don’t watch. Though there has been plenty of quality tv over the years that failed to get an audience.


----------



## sideon

DaveRA said:


> It was a great show, even though it had mid carders in the main event. *I don’t get why more people don’t watch.* Though there has been plenty of quality tv over the years that failed to get an audience.


Because in America it's WWE and then everyone else. All these numbers proved is that nothing has changed, and that there's about 1mil people that will either watch or not watch either show when they air unopposed. I thought that they would get 1mil or 950k just because i figured that people would want to see the follow up to Miro.


DaSlacker said:


> A WWE show opposing them and getting squashed in the demo every week could be beneficial for AEW. Despite Raw's unopposed numbers doing a .48, *it signals to suits that AEW is the more 'hip' brand.*


I doubt the majority of wresting fans would know what hip is. I guarantee you that the 18-49 demo wrestling fan looks a lot different that the 18-49 sports fan.


Verbatim17 said:


> 3rd in the demo. Good for AEW. Very good.
> 
> NXT just needs to fuck off to either Tuesdays or back to the Network. Their weekly ratings are embarrassing and they aren’t helping anyone with the weekly war crap. All they are succeeding at is not making their brand cool to watch anymore. Which means there is genuinely nothing to watch in WWE.


Why so angry? Ya'll are hyped over AEW beating the C brand and obsessing over this dumbass 18-49 demo that means nothing since advertisers are hesitant to sponsor pro wrestling. Also saying that there's nothing to watch in WWE is laughable since Smackdown is kicking everyone's ass in the ratings. If AEW is this new exciting brand that can't be stopped then you shouldn't have a problem with another show running opposite of it.


----------



## .christopher.

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1305620933642600449


We already know Dave Meltzer and the people with this mindset are idiots, but, in case you're wondering, it's not all about pure sport.

We want wrestling - with characters and storylines - to be treated seriously. We don't want spotfest match after spotfest match with people who openly shit on the business in the ring.


----------



## .christopher.

DaveRA said:


> It was a great show, even though it had mid carders in the main event. I don’t get why more people don’t watch. Though there has been plenty of quality tv over the years that failed to get an audience.


Don't hold your breath for an improvement over their current audience.

They have that peak 1m that like outlaw, shitting on professional wrestling, but that style will not bring in more viewers than that.

The one thing they have over TNA, though, is that the WWE are losing sheep left, right and centre, so they'll sink down to AEW's numbers sooner rather than later. TNA had to compete with millions of mindless drones who accepted their shit, but, thankfully, that's changing.


----------



## zkorejo

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306710494720544768
This is actually quite impressive.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

.christopher. said:


> We already know Dave Meltzer and the people with this mindset are idiots, but, in case you're wondering, it's not all about pure sport.
> 
> We want wrestling - with characters and storylines - to be treated seriously. We don't want spotfest match after spotfest match with people who openly shit on the business in the ring.


what is your favourite current wrestling show?


----------



## Geeee

TBH I think the dip in overall viewers could be more due to the uncertainty in what night they were on, than NXT.


----------



## Prosper

zkorejo said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306710494720544768
> This is actually quite impressive.


They finished #1 and not #3? That’s really good.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> They finished #1 and not #3? That’s really good.


in males 18 - 49

overall 3rd in key demo

Real housewives 18-49 females murdered everybody else


----------



## zkorejo

prosperwithdeen said:


> They finished #1 and not #3? That’s really good.


I think he meant, #1 in the 3 demos he mentioned. All young audiences basically.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Chip Chipperson said:


> Damn, *13 pages* in the AEW section (Cornette got it another 5 pages) and a *200,000 *drop off.
> 
> Where are they going wrong? Maybe Moxley on top is boring the people? I don't know.


This is a fire troll move, using forum pages and rounding 130k to 200k.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Takeaway from the ratings drop this week:
1. Get Eric Bischoff and/or Kevin Sullivan on board to put the ship on a new course for the next year. Give it a try. You shouldn't be losing 200k viewers week over week when you just climbed up to a million the previous week. The fact AEW went down this week was not good.

2. Like I'm going to say in my response to the episode in the Dynamite thread-- put Mox on the front of the f'n show. What quarter hour was the world champ and number one contender this week? I can't even remember. They were just in the middle of everything. Lost. Not present. Not the star.

3. The rating is most often (unless there is a big big spectacle) a reflection of the response from the previous week's show. You didn't set up this week as must watch, and it shows in the rating.

4. Garbage wrestling failed to draw. Thank God.

5. Part of the ratings surge was interest to see if Matt Hardy was going to retire following the accident at All Out (this is not why you want to see a ratings bump).

6. The loss of the TNT championship weekly defense and question of who will get a shot isn't helping.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Mister Sinister said:


> Takeaway from the ratings drop this week:
> 1. Get Eric Bischoff and/or Kevin Sullivan on board to put the ship on a new course for the next year. Give it a try. You shouldn't be losing 200k viewers week over week when you just climbed up to a million the previous week. The fact AEW went down this week was not good.
> 
> 2. Like I'm going to say in my response to the episode in the Dynamite thread-- put Mox on the front of the f'n show. What quarter hour was the world champ and number one contender this week? I can't even remember. They were just in the middle of everything. Lost. Not present. Not the star.
> 
> 3. The rating is most often (unless there is a big big spectacle) a reflection of the response from the previous week's show. You didn't set up this week as must watch, and it shows in the rating.
> 
> 4. Garbage wrestling failed to draw. Thank God.
> 
> 5. Part of the ratings surge was interest to see if Matt Hardy was going to retire following the accident at All Out (this is not why you want to see a ratings bump).
> 
> 6. The loss of the TNT championship weekly defense and question of who will get a shot isn't helping.


This week was not unopposed, last week was. It's widely acknowledged that there are 200-250k floating viewers between NXT and AEW. So it's a good/decent rating. Mystery over. The rest of your post is moot.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RelivingTheShadow said:


> This is a fire troll move, using forum pages and rounding 130k to 200k.


Agreed, high level trolling right there


----------



## Mister Sinister

You guys need to stop whacking off about NXT. If the show is good, NXT won't f'n matter.


----------



## kingfrass44

Pentagon Senior said:


> This week was not unopposed, last week was. It's widely acknowledged that there are 200-250k floating viewers between NXT and AEW. So it's a good/decent rating. Mystery over. The rest of your post is moot.


you high level aew trolling 
Traditional aew fan trying to get excuses
Stop making excuses
This is not good
There is no 200-250k floating viewers
nxt 600000


----------



## Prosper

Mister Sinister said:


> You guys need to stop whacking off about NXT. If the show is good, NXT won't f'n matter.


The show is good.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Mister Sinister said:


> You guys need to stop whacking off about NXT. If the show is good, NXT won't f'n matter.


NXT this past week was great, and people are naturally gonna go to the other program at the very least during commercials.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RelivingTheShadow said:


> This is a fire troll move, using forum pages and rounding 130k to 200k.


That's a mistake on my part with the numbers. I'd round 130k to 125k most likely.

So only 13 pages and a drop off of 125k, still makes me wonder just what happened. I genuinely thought they'd maintain the million.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Chip Chipperson said:


> That's a mistake on my part with the numbers. I'd round 130k to 125k most likely.
> 
> So only 13 pages and a drop off of 125k, still makes me wonder just what happened. I genuinely thought they'd maintain the million.


They had head to head wrestling competition and it wasn't a PPV fallout show, weak show on paper.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> That's a mistake on my part with the numbers. I'd round 130k to 125k most likely.
> 
> So only 13 pages and a drop off of 125k, still makes me wonder just what happened. I genuinely thought they'd maintain the million.


The lack of discussion stems from the lack of stupidity. Akmost every second of the show was booked logically, actual wrestling matches broke out without any spotfest garbage, and no one had anything bad to say. The show wasn’t “must see TV” until the final 30 minutes or so.

You’d have liked this episode outside of OC ruining a really, really great parking lot brawl.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> The lack of discussion stems from the lack of stupidity. Akmost every second of the show was booked logically, actual wrestling matches broke out without any spotfest garbage, and no one had anything bad to say. The show wasn’t “must see TV” until the final 30 minutes or so.
> 
> You’d have liked this episode outside of OC ruining a really, really great parking lot brawl.


Yeah, I saw the OC spot and ending of the parking lot brawl. Didn't like it but I'll take your word on the rest of the show.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, I saw the OC spot and ending of the parking lot brawl. Didn't like it but I'll take your word on the rest of the show.


It was a boring show for me. Nothing stupid, nothing exciting. Just all logically booked matches. No advancement of storylines until the final 30 minutes.

Felt like the descriptions I hear about NXT (never watched a single episode) or RoH (only caught a glimpse while flipping channels years ago).


----------



## bdon

Soooo, Moxley’s segment did low numbers?


----------



## 3venflow

bdon said:


> Soooo, Moxley’s segment did low numbers?


Or did the women's match lose them during the match? I don't know how to read these things. Do you blame the segment itself or the segment leading in...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1307014380287033347


----------



## Prosper

Parking lot brawl did really well in the final quarter, especially in the demo.


----------



## MumbaiChips

Chip Chipperson said:


> That's a mistake on my part with the numbers. I'd round 130k to 125k most likely.
> 
> So only 13 pages and a drop off of 125k, still makes me wonder just what happened. I genuinely thought they'd maintain the million.


I know bro

But its will be interesting when they start airing in India. It’ll be over a million ez


----------



## rbl85

There are a lot of things to take into consideration for the rating of a quarter.

1) What happened before 
2) the commercials


----------



## rexmundi

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1307053686653366277


----------



## AEWMoxley

Once again, AEW can say, "thank god for Moxley."


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

For reference, the 2nd Dynamite after Double or Nothing did 730k(.29) viewers, the 2nd Dynamite after All Out did 886k(.34), that's solid growth over a 3 month period, AEW still the only wrestling show that has recovered to pre-pandemic numbers(Smackdown is close).


----------



## Peerless

AEWMoxley said:


> Once again, AEW can say, "thank god for Moxley."


Even when team Mox thought they might have caught an L they still ended up winning. This game is too easy.


----------



## bdon

rexmundi said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1307053686653366277


Of course it did well. 

The point is that Q7 is ALWAYS a shit quarter. Some stupid fucks use that quarter’s rating drop as evidence about these guys’ ability to draw or not.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Mister Sinister said:


> You guys need to stop whacking off about NXT. If the show is good, NXT won't f'n matter.


Sure, apart from the evidence that suggests otherwise.


----------



## Mister Sinister

They lost 100k plus viewers from the opening to Q2. That is why you open the show with Mox/Archer (even though it's a filler feud before Cage/Archer). Open with your world champion-- not a 15+ minute tag match.

Why is the main event described as "an incredible visual" instead of a train wreck that only pulled 870k viewers? Why do they keep putting the women in Q6 or Q7? Why not try them as the first match next week?


----------



## MoxAsylum

Mister Sinister said:


> They lost 100k plus viewers from the opening to Q2. That is why you open the show with Mox/Archer (even though it's a filler feud before Cage/Archer). Open with your world champion-- not a 15+ minute tag match.
> 
> Why is the main event described as "an incredible visual" instead of a train wreck that only pulled 870k viewers? Why do they keep putting the women in Q6 or Q7? Why not try them as the first match next week?


I’m not surprised they lost viewers as soon as I turned over and seen it was the geek express vs boring FTR I turned it off. I’m honestly losing interest in AEW. Only people I currently care about are Moxley, Archer, Omega and Page


----------



## bdon

MoxAsylum said:


> I’m not surprised they lost viewers as soon as I turned over and seen it was the geek express vs boring FTR I turned it off. I’m honestly losing interest in AEW. Only people I currently care about are Moxley, Archer, Omega and Page


I enjoy a lot of the matches, but yeah, those are the only characters’ stories that I’m invested in. Archer might be my favorite of them all.


----------



## Not Lying

^^ Wtf are these people talking?

Q1 averaged meaning FTR/JE averaged 960K.

Q2 was Kaz vs Page, meaning they are the ones who lost 100K. Opening the show with Moxley would have had more people tune out unless he opens to sets up a main event. 

I think why some tuned out is because they knew it was going to be a long match, and it was just after JE/FTR which was also long. 
Plus the match was set-up randomly, and Kaz hasn't been given the mic once i think, nobody cares for him if they don't know his work from before. 
I mean, they said on commentary that the match was offered Omega/Page vs SCU but Omega refused, they could have done a segment to set-it up a week earlier, hell in that interview they could have done it.


----------



## 304418

sideon said:


> Why so angry? Ya'll are hyped over AEW beating the C brand and obsessing over this dumbass 18-49 demo that means nothing since advertisers are hesitant to sponsor pro wrestling. Also saying that there's nothing to watch in WWE is laughable since Smackdown is kicking everyone's ass in the ratings. If AEW is this new exciting brand that can't be stopped then you shouldn't have a problem with another show running opposite of it.


What? NXT being beat and having to leave the battlefield, and the WWE suffering a significant defeat in the process for the first time in decades, would be too much buzz for AEW to handle? As they would get over a million viewers each week regularly without having to worry about a weekly ratings war?

Also, you think that if AEW was in Smackdown's place on FOX it would not be drawing huge numbers? LMFAO! They would probably draw the same numbers on FOX, maybe even a bit higher.



Mister Sinister said:


> They lost 100k plus viewers from the opening to Q2. That is why you open the show with Mox/Archer (even though it's a filler feud before Cage/Archer). Open with your world champion-- not a 15+ minute tag match.
> 
> Why is the main event described as "an incredible visual" instead of a train wreck that only pulled 870k viewers? Why do they keep putting the women in Q6 or Q7? Why not try them as the first match next week?


It’s not because they open the show with matches. It’s that they don’t use that segment to build to other segments later on in the evening that would want to make fans to continue watching throughout the show – not an interview or backstage interaction that leads to a match the following week, nothing. Everyone has their segment, and then everything gets announced before the next show like its NJPW with not much build. We learn nothing about these characters the majority of the time. Who is Jungle Boy or Luchasauras after being a year on the roster? Who is Hikaru Shida? Who are the Librarians? Who is Scorpio Sky or Private Party? Compare how AEW develops its characters to other wrestling programs of the past within the span of a year and it will become clear that this is a show about nothing at times.

I'll put it another way: if AEW got rid of commentary altogether for a string of shows, would I as a viewer still be able to understand the motivations and behaviors of these characters in AEW and understand how the stories are progressing?

The women neither open the show in Q1, nor are the final segment of the show in Q8. They are always in the middle of the card. I don’t get how AEW books the women in this company. I have no idea why the women stuff is considered unappealing to the bookers. If they don’t like women’s wrestling, why don’t they just get rid of it?


----------



## Pippen94

Ratings this week are fantastic;
#3 overall (0.34)
#1 m18-49
#1 18-34

All this against competition


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> That's a mistake on my part with the numbers. I'd round 130k to 125k most likely.
> 
> So only 13 pages and a drop off of 125k, still makes me wonder just what happened. I genuinely thought they'd maintain the million.


This is plain trolling not even clever trolling. Number posted was clearly wrong & ignores return of competition. This guy is getting too cocky - needs a spell away from here


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Pippen94 said:


> Ratings this week are fantastic;
> #3 overall (0.34)
> #1 m18-49
> #1 18-34
> 
> All this against competition


To be fair, no NBA competition and NBA targets a very similar demo to AEW, I think they would've been 50-70k lower with NBA competition.


----------



## Pippen94

RelivingTheShadow said:


> To be fair, no NBA competition and NBA targets a very similar demo to AEW, I think they would've been 50-70k lower with NBA competition.


NBA should've been finished in May/June


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> This is plain trolling not even clever trolling. Number posted was clearly wrong & ignores return of competition. This guy is getting too cocky - needs a spell away from here


Settle down Pips, I already admitted my number was wrong.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Settle down Pips, I already admitted my number was wrong.


Other trolls are quite shrewd - wood posted about conditions of TV contracts not released to public so it's hard to dispute. You post dumb shit like being surprised overall ratings drop as show runs opposed for first time in months. 
This stuff is easy to counter but lowers discourse. Reddit & other forums wouldn't allow this.
I encourage others here fed up with your trolling to start reporting you.


----------



## Claro De Luna

Pippen94 said:


> Other trolls are quite shrewd - wood posted about conditions of TV contracts not released to public so it's hard to dispute. You post dumb shit like being surprised overall ratings drop as show runs opposed for first time in months.
> This stuff is easy to counter but lowers discourse. Reddit & other forums wouldn't allow this.
> I encourage others here fed up with your trolling to start reporting you.


This guy has even started a new thread in the rants section calling me out. Wtf, this guy has got too much time on his hands. I've reported him for baiting but this guy is like a cockroach, you just cant get rid of him.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Claro De Luna said:


> This guy has even started a new thread in the rants section calling me out. Wtf, this guy has got too much time on his hands. I've reported him for baiting but this guy is like a cockroach, you just cant get rid of him.


Best you just ignore anybody who baits you. They will get themselves banned ala @Cult03


----------



## Pentagon Senior

optikk sucks said:


> Best you just ignore anybody who baits you. They will get themselves banned ala @Cult03


The reporter became the reportee, it seems


----------



## Mister Sinister

The Definition of Technician said:


> ^^ Wtf are these people talking?
> 
> Q1 averaged meaning FTR/JE averaged 960K.
> 
> Q2 was Kaz vs Page, meaning they are the ones who lost 100K. Opening the show with Moxley would have had more people tune out unless he opens to sets up a main event.
> 
> I think why some tuned out is because they knew it was going to be a long match, and it was just after JE/FTR which was also long.
> Plus the match was set-up randomly, and Kaz hasn't been given the mic once i think, nobody cares for him if they don't know his work from before.
> I mean, they said on commentary that the match was offered Omega/Page vs SCU but Omega refused, they could have done a segment to set-it up a week earlier, hell in that interview they could have done it.


I see the drop after Q1 as reflective of the first quarter not setting the hook.

Q1 should have set up the question of whose Mox's partners would be, and the final quarter should have been the reveal. Like Verbatim said, there is no continuity within the episode and little between episodes to keep the heat.

AEW faces a challenge in that some of the audience have college degrees and are writers but AEW is being written by people who aren't writers. This makes it difficult for professionals to watch. It's "forest for the trees" stuff going on here. They miss the most basic elements of continuity and teases.


----------



## Erik.

Cult got banned?

What for?

Being a cock?


----------



## Not Lying

Mister Sinister said:


> I see the drop after Q1 as reflective of the first quarter not setting the hook.
> 
> *Q1 should have set up the question of whose Mox's partners would be, and the final quarter should have been the reveal*. Like Verbatim said, *there is no continuity within the episode and little between episodes to keep the heat.*
> 
> AEW faces a challenge in that some of the audience have college degrees and are writers but AEW is being written by people who aren't writers. This makes it difficult for professionals to watch. It's "forest for the trees" stuff going on here. They miss the most basic elements of continuity and teases.


they've done that a bunch of times and many times there's a rise in Q2. I really think it was down to people not caring enough for Kaz/Page here, it was very predictable wasn't gona advance the story at this stage. I don't think they even told us that Omega was going to be on commentary.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Claro De Luna said:


> This guy has even started a new thread in the rants section calling me out. Wtf, this guy has got too much time on his hands. I've reported him for baiting but this guy is like a cockroach, you just cant get rid of him.


So much time on my hands that I only post during my daily commute to work. You're right, I'm crazy and obsessed.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

900k this week


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> 900k this week


and for the after NBA one?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> and for the after NBA one?


Their average for these kinds of shows 300k.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Yup - 300 k for after NBA

0.16 or something similar

0.32 on Wed / 920k


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

optikk sucks said:


> 900k this week


Hard doubt, they might have NBA competition this week and NXT is doing the Aztec Warfare match. Might be wrong, but can't see it hitting 900k this week.


----------



## Prosper

Guessing Late Night Dynamite will be 350K and Dynamite will be 920K.

NXT is having a mini Royal Rumble Gauntlet type specialty match which I think will pull away some viewers.


----------



## Claro De Luna

Chip Chipperson said:


> So much time on my hands that I only post during my daily commute to work. You're right, I'm crazy and obsessed.


Dont tell me you write your essay length posts during commutes. You post quite a number of them. Use the time for something a bit more meaningful like meeting a life partner or taking up a hobby. Negativity in life will just bring you misery. And stop trying to bait me.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Claro De Luna said:


> Dont tell me you write your essay length posts during commutes. You post quite a number of them. Use the time for something a bit more meaningful like meeting a life partner or taking up a hobby. Negativity in life will just bring you misery. And stop trying to bait me.


You're literally just coming off a ban for baiting, and your first post back was a thread titled 'Injustice' where you called for the banning of a certain group of posters, claiming they were in bed with the mods; to top it off, you edited the thread like a coward into the 'Is Shida hot?' topic, after your initial post had already received a few responses, which can actually be seen as yet more baiting on your part. 

You're a troll, a coward, and a hypocrite.


----------



## Claro De Luna

El Hammerstone said:


> You're literally just coming off a ban for baiting, and your first post back was a thread titled 'Injustice' where you called for the banning of a certain group of posters, claiming they were in bed with the mods; to top it off, you edited the thread like a coward into the 'Is Shida hot?' topic, after your initial post had already received a few responses, which can actually be seen as yet more baiting on your part.
> 
> You're a troll, a coward, and a hypocrite.


I seriously dont know what you're talking about but it's obvious who you're trying to score points with lol. You're coming across as being a bit needy.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Claro De Luna said:


> Dont tell me you write your essay length posts during commutes. You post quite a number of them. Use the time for something a bit more meaningful like meeting a life partner or taking up a hobby. Negativity in life will just bring you misery. And stop trying to bait me.


That's exactly what I'm telling you. I work in a different city to the one in which I live therefore my commute is over 200 KM a day. I take the train into work so I have plenty of time to have a read of forums, scroll Facebook, check my E-Mails etc. I type 100 WPM so an "essay" could take as little as 5-10 minutes.

I appreciate your concerns but I have a lovely girlfriend that I'm approaching 5 years with and currently live with, plenty of hobbies away from wrestling including radio, sports, video games etc. Life is good for me and I hope it is for you also.

In regards to baiting you, I had no idea who you were until you made a thread titled "Injustice". Any "feud" you think you have going with me or "da haters" is in your head, none of us know who you are (Until now)



El Hammerstone said:


> You're literally just coming off a ban for baiting, and your first post back was a thread titled 'Injustice' where you called for the banning of a certain group of posters, claiming they were in bed with the mods; to top it off, you edited the thread like a coward into the 'Is Shida hot?' topic, after your initial post had already received a few responses, which can actually be seen as yet more baiting on your part.
> 
> You're a troll, a coward, and a hypocrite.


Even worse is that when called out and asked to explain himself he ignored it.


----------



## Klitschko

I dont agree with a lot of things Chip says, but he's just saying his opinion. I dont think he has ever gotten personal with people out of nowhere. People on here attack his personal life and just get low because he doesn't enjoy all the things they do. I mean its gotten really pathetic at this point where people are making fake accounts of the guy just so they can mess with him. 

If you really can't stand him that badly then just put him on ignore and continue your life. 

-----------

Anyways, I cant wait for this weeks show. Hopefully the heels win this one.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> I dont agree with a lot of things Chip says, but he's just saying his opinion. I dont think he has ever gotten personal with people out of nowhere. People on here attack his personal life and just get low because he doesn't enjoy all the things they do. I mean its gotten really pathetic at this point where people are making fake accounts of the guy just so they can mess with him.
> 
> If you really can't stand him that badly then just put him on ignore and continue your life.
> 
> -----------
> 
> Anyways, I cant wait for this weeks show. Hopefully the heels win this one.


Thank you sir, you're correct, I don't get personal with anyone unless you count me calling people out on their silliness as being personal. I've never tried to personally attack family members or make assumptions about people on here though and most likely never will.

The fake accounts are amusing. I would've liked to have seen what Chip Chipperson's Dad could've become but also understand that the mods don't want to cater to that kind of thing and have gimmick posters running around.

I feel like people don't give me a shot based on my views. It's automatically "This guy says AEW can do better? He's a troll!"



Pippen94 said:


> He's a troll


Point proven.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Chip Chipperson said:


> Point proven.


Don't think you're a troll, but when you use goofy ass metrics like forum pages for a show that aired at 12:30 AM EST and ignore head to head wrestling competition as a reason that ratings went down to rag on AEW, it's easy to see why people would think you are.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Late night Dynamite did 585k views with a .26 in 18-49, that is pretty fucking good.

I believe the demo is higher than every NXT this year, but I might be wrong on that.


----------



## Pippen94

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Late night Dynamite did 585k views with a .26 in 18-49, that is pretty fucking good.
> 
> I believe the demo is higher than every NXT this year, but I might be wrong on that.


Did .26 once for uncontested show.
That is great rating for such late show.


----------



## Prosper

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Late night Dynamite did 585k views with a .26 in 18-49, that is pretty fucking good.
> 
> I believe the demo is higher than every NXT this year, but I might be wrong on that.


585K with .26 in the demo? Damn didn’t see that coming. That’s almost as much as NXT at its lowest point this year.


----------



## RiverFenix

The secondary one-hour show, if it runs unopposed by wwe counter-programming will regularly beat Dynamite in ratings if AEW puts even half-way decent matches on it. One hour is just so much better - you get the highlights and key things from Dynamite and they three solid matches on a Saturday evening(hopefully).


----------



## RiverFenix

prosperwithdeen said:


> 585K with .26 in the demo? Damn didn’t see that coming. That’s almost as much as NXT at its lowest point this year.


I've never lived on the West Coast or in PT zone, but I'd find it weird to watch NFL football starting at 10am on Sundays or MNF at 5pm. West Coast getting to watch first run broadcast at 9pm makes a difference. 

Maybe the better play for the one hour show would be 10-11 EST, and thus 7-8 PT to maximize viewership potential.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

prosperwithdeen said:


> 585K with .26 in the demo? Damn didn’t see that coming. That’s almost as much as NXT at its lowest point this year.


The demo beats the majority of NXT's, I believe it's tied with the unopposed NXT that had the 4-Way Iron Man Match.

Obviously NBA had something to do with it, but the lead-in is a lot weaker than that Saturday AEW since they had Inside the NBA tank in viewers after the game ended, still I'm sure the lead-in helped.


----------



## Prosper

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I've never lived on the West Coast or in PT zone, but I'd find it weird to watch NFL football starting at 10am on Sundays or MNF at 5pm. West Coast getting to watch first run broadcast at 9pm makes a difference.
> 
> Maybe the better play for the one hour show would be 10-11 EST, and thus 7-8 PT to maximize viewership potential.


True, I think they have more potential to get more viewers on both coasts if they run the timing like they do now with Dynamite though. 5PM can't be that bad for the West Coast people right? 11PM-12AM during a work week for the East Coast people is a big no-no for most I would think. If this show aired at 8PM EST as usual, they may have gotten more than 585K IMO.

@Lheurch what do you think being on the West? How rough is the 5PM start time?




RelivingTheShadow said:


> The demo beats the majority of NXT's, I believe it's tied with the unopposed NXT that had the 4-Way Iron Man Match.
> 
> Obviously NBA had something to do with it, but the lead-in is a lot weaker than that Saturday AEW since they had Inside the NBA tank in viewers after the game ended, still I'm sure the lead-in helped.


Yeah this demo in itself does beat NXT most weeks this year. The lead in probably started them around 650K+ I would think.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> True, I think they have more potential to get more viewers on both coasts if they run the timing like they do now with Dynamite though. 5PM can't be that bad for the West Coast people right? 11PM-12AM during a work week for the East Coast people is a big no-no for most I would think. If this show aired at 8PM EST as usual, they may have gotten more than 585K IMO.
> 
> @Lheurch what do you think being on the West? How rough is the 5PM start time?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah this demo in itself does beat NXT most weeks this year. The lead in probably started them around 650K+ I would think.


5 pm is OK for me, but sometimes it does feel rushed. I work at home though so it is usually easy but for everyone who works in an office and has a commute, it is definitely an issue. 6pm out here/9 eastern always made more sense to me.

PS - 10am NFL takes a LOT of getting used to. Definitely weird for tailgating.


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> 5 pm is OK for me, but sometimes it does feel rushed. I work at home though so it is usually easy but for everyone who works in an office and has a commute, it is definitely an issue. 6pm out here/9 eastern always made more sense to me.
> 
> *PS - 10am NFL takes a LOT of getting used to. Definitely weird for tailgating.*


Aye day drinking is my shit lol I would probably love it


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> Aye day drinking is my shit lol I would probably love it


You are like my sister, brunch is her classy way of drinking in the morning. I hate waking up early but very much enjoy still having my night after wrestling and other sports are done.


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> You are like my sister, brunch is her classy way of drinking in the morning. I hate waking up early but very much enjoy still having my night after wrestling and other sports are done.


Yeah having the whole night after wrestling must be nice, its time for bed for me after Dynamite lol, the only thing that keeps me up longer than usual is the post show discussion on here ha.


----------



## EmbassyForever

585k with a 0.26 is pretty damn good.

Predicting a 910k - 0.32 for Dynamite


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

A 12:35 AM show doing 0.26, 9th on the rankings and 500k+

oh AEW, you saucy ratings minx, behave

that is splendid for what it was


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Don't think you're a troll, but when you use goofy ass metrics like forum pages for a show that aired at 12:30 AM EST and ignore head to head wrestling competition as a reason that ratings went down to rag on AEW, it's easy to see why people would think you are.


Do I know that though? I live on the other side of the world. If you asked me right now what time Dynamite starts in the United States I wouldn't be able to tell you, all I know is that it airs 10 AM on a Thursday morning here in Australia. I still find it surprising that the show didn't have at least a few live watchers but the rating seems more than acceptable (585k is actually quite good for 12:30 AM) so who really cares?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Chip Chipperson said:


> Do I know that though? I live on the other side of the world. If you asked me right now what time Dynamite starts in the United States I wouldn't be able to tell you, all I know is that it airs 10 AM on a Thursday morning here in Australia. I still find it surprising that the show didn't have at least a few live watchers but the rating seems more than acceptable (585k is actually quite good for 12:30 AM) so who really cares?


I don't recall your exact comment when the number came out, but wasn't it something to the effect of "Damn, they lost 200k viewers, Moxley's title run is getting stale"

That doesn't really sound acceptable, more like you stirring the pot.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I don't recall your exact comment when the number came out, but wasn't it something to the effect of "Damn, they lost 200k viewers, Moxley's title run is getting stale"
> 
> That doesn't really sound acceptable, more like you stirring the pot.


Yes, that was last week when the typical Dynamite thread had like 15 pages and had a significant ratings drop of 200k (Later corrected to 125k). I was surprised about that also.

I think I only asked the question of if maybe the Moxley run was getting stale. Then people answered saying "Nah, tonight's show just didn't have any controversy" so I left it alone.

You guys all got to chill, my opinions or questions aren't that important. Don't worry about what I say, worry about your own personal enjoyment of AEW


----------



## Cult03

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yes, that was last week when the typical Dynamite thread had like 15 pages and had a significant ratings drop of 200k (Later corrected to 125k). I was surprised about that also.
> 
> I think I only asked the question of if maybe the Moxley run was getting stale. Then people answered saying "Nah, tonight's show just didn't have any controversy" so I left it alone.
> 
> You guys all got to chill, my opinions or questions aren't that important. Don't worry about what I say, worry about your own personal enjoyment of AEW


If only they could stay on topic or debate people's opinions instead of making every thread about us. It's become a fucking joke


----------



## DammitChrist

Cult03 said:


> If only they could stay on topic or debate people's opinions *instead of making every thread about us.*It's become a fucking joke


Ok, then quit talking about yourselves then.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yes, that was last week when the typical Dynamite thread had like 15 pages and had a significant ratings drop of 200k (Later corrected to 125k). I was surprised about that also.
> 
> I think I only asked the question of if maybe the Moxley run was getting stale. Then people answered saying "Nah, tonight's show just didn't have any controversy" so I left it alone.
> 
> You guys all got to chill, my opinions or questions aren't that important. Don't worry about what I say, worry about your own personal enjoyment of AEW


You were surprised when aew total viewership went down when it had competition for first time in weeks??


----------



## Cult03

DammitChrist said:


> Ok, then quit talking about yourselves then.


Definitely an adult response. I'll be happy to talk wrestling the moment I can without the shitty responses I constantly get.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Late night Dynamite did 585k views with a .26 in 18-49, that is pretty fucking good.
> 
> I believe the demo is higher than every NXT this year, but I might be wrong on that.












That's fucking sick. How the fuck


----------



## Not Lying

AEW was a top 10 cable show AT 12:35 AM. 
This is insanely good. The biggest star on card was Brandie FFS. This is incredible. 

Tony will be opening 2 bottles this week.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> You were surprised when aew total viewership went down when it had competition for first time in weeks??


Did I know they had competition for the first time in weeks? If you want to go back far enough in this thread (Think it was the first 5 pages) I estimated over a million so obviously I wasn't even aware.

You especially really need to chill my man. Not everything is some big conspiracy against AEW.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Did I know they had competition for the first time in weeks? If you want to go back far enough in this thread (Think it was the first 5 pages) I estimated over a million so obviously I wasn't even aware.
> 
> You especially really need to chill my man. Not everything is some big conspiracy against AEW.


You posted about the "significant drop" 11 hours ago - ppl have been calling you on it for days. Now you're pleading ignorance - guess nobody here can deny that


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> You posted about the "significant drop" 11 hours ago - ppl have been calling you on it for days. Now you're pleading ignorance - guess nobody here can deny that


I'm saying I was ignorant to the circumstance surrounding AEW losing viewers yes. I still stand by it being troubling that nobody here wants to talk about it anymore though.

Why do you read my posts if you don't like them? Time to tune out.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm saying I was ignorant to the circumstance surrounding AEW losing viewers yes. I still stand by it being troubling that nobody here wants to talk about it anymore though.
> 
> Why do you read my posts if you don't like them? Time to tune out.


like i said chip, you and your mates drove off a lot of fans mate. there is now a disconnect between actual AEW fans and this place because of you. it's troubling for WF, not for AEW.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> like i said chip, you and your mates drove off a lot of fans mate. there is now a disconnect between actual AEW fans and this place because of you. it's troubling for WF, not for AEW.




We drove them all away in the span of a 2 week period? Wow, we must be very powerful.

It couldn't have anything to do with AEW bottling a PPV and following it up with a shit sandwich the following week could it?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> We drove them all away in the span of a 2 week period? Wow, we must be very powerful.
> 
> It couldn't have anything to do with AEW bottling a PPV and following it up with a shit sandwich the following week could it?


actually i've had a lot of private discussions with a lot of people here. many people have told me they dont like posting here anymore. there's been a mass emigration to another board. it's unfortunate that this needed to be done, but hey whaddyaknow

i mean seriously, what kinda guy suggests that people not posting in the discussion thread is equivalent to a mass of people tuning out? this really on some disney character goofy hyuck hyuck patrick star live under a rock thing.

chip you need to get some sleep mate, lol - while i disagree with a lot of things that you say, even this suggestion is too dumb for you.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> actually i've had a lot of private discussions with a lot of people here. many people have told me they dont like posting here anymore. there's been a mass emigration to another board. it's unfortunate that this needed to be done, but hey whaddyaknow
> 
> i mean seriously, what kinda guy suggests that people not posting in the discussion thread is equivalent to a mass of people tuning out? this really on some disney character goofy hyuck hyuck patrick star live under a rock thing.
> 
> chip you need to get some sleep mate, lol - while i disagree with a lot of things that you say, even this suggestion is too dumb for you.


Man, I don't envy that other board. I legitimately can't think of any heavy hitters who have upped and left for another board though unless they got banned.

You guys have twisted whatever I said 2 weeks ago so many times. I was pretty surprised at the lack of interest in the shows on the forum and wanted to know why. I asked the open question of whether or not people were over the show. 

As for sleep, no can do my friend. I'm on the night shift for another 7 hours.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> Man, I don't envy that other board. I legitimately can't think of any heavy hitters who have upped and left for another board though unless they got banned.
> 
> You guys have twisted whatever I said 2 weeks ago so many times. I was pretty surprised at the lack of interest in the shows on the forum and wanted to know why. I asked the open question of whether or not people were over the show.
> 
> As for sleep, no can do my friend. I'm on the night shift for another 7 hours.


lol ok bro. Has over 1200 posts for last nights Dynamite. Soon this place will lose the “heavy hitters” completely.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> lol ok bro. Has over 1200 posts for last nights Dynamite. Soon this place will lose the “heavy hitters” completely.


Ohhhh, I know the forum you're talking about. The one that completely bans any negative AEW talk, all the Jim Cornette threads and rates every AEW Dynamite episode an 8 or above. I won't name the forum because I think that's against the rules but it's viewed pretty negatively. Can't even say fuck without getting a warning.

Enjoy it man, I personally would rather stick here and not have an echo chamber but I understand some of you do want that "AEW is great and I don't want to hear otherwise" chamber.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> Ohhhh, I know the forum you're talking about. The one that completely bans any negative AEW talk, all the Jim Cornette threads and rates every AEW Dynamite episode an 8 or above. I won't name the forum because I think that's against the rules but it's viewed pretty negatively. Can't even say fuck without getting a warning.
> 
> Enjoy it man, I personally would rather stick here and not have an echo chamber but I understand some of you do want that "AEW is great and I don't want to hear otherwise" chamber.


That’s why I’m still here. It’s always good to have both sides and I’m not a superfan like your guys like to think. And remember it’s your guys that want their echo chamber - discord channel.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> That’s why I’m still here. It’s always good to have both sides and I’m not a superfan like your guys like to think. And remember it’s your guys that want their echo chamber - discord channel.


Actually, with our discord channel we were talking about who to bring into the channel recently and @prosperwithdeen was actually a name that was suggested. Thought process by the person that suggested him was that yes, he is an AEW fan but he isn't annoying about it and he offers different perspective and intelligent posts therefore we wanted him. I guess Prosper has denied the invite because he isn't in there but you can't say we haven't tried.

Really we just want people who are interesting, smart and that we get along with in there. It has nothing to do with an echo chamber.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> Actually, with our discord channel we were talking about who to bring into the channel recently and @prosperwithdeen was actually a name that was suggested. Thought process by the person that suggested him was that yes, he is an AEW fan but he isn't annoying about it and he offers different perspective and intelligent posts therefore we wanted him. I guess Prosper has denied the invite because he isn't in there but you can't say we haven't tried.
> 
> Really we just want people who are interesting, smart and that we get along with in there. It has nothing to do with an echo chamber.


Still sounds like an echo chamber, regardless of whether you want one AEW fan in there or not. I think Prosper not responding says it all about what people around here think about your man lmao.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Chip Chipperson said:


> It couldn't have anything to do with AEW bottling a PPV and following it up with a shit sandwich the following week could it?


Didn‘t that “shit sandwich“ post 1.016 million viewers


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> Still sounds like an echo chamber, regardless of whether you want one AEW fan in there or not. I think Prosper not responding says it all about what people around here think about your man lmao.


It's not my discord, I'm just an invited member there. I didn't send Prosper the invite either so maybe nobody has even actually invited him yet.

We welcome anyone who is smart to the wrestling business and that we get along with though. You don't have to hate AEW to be liked by me, case in point I really like @Firefromthegods, Prosper, @LifeInCattleClass and even MontyCora before he went weird. I really don't care where anyone's loyalties lay, I even used to like you.



Alright_Mate said:


> Didn‘t that “shit sandwich“ post 1.016 million viewers


It did, don't ask me how. That was a topic in the Discord today, I have no idea how AEW does it.


----------



## rexmundi

I'll guess 814K with a .29 demo vs 747k and a .15 demo for nxt. The combination of riot coverage coupled with the season finale of America's Got Talent and the premiere of Masked Singer could wreak havoc on the younger demo. Probably being a tad pessimistic here.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Chip Chipperson said:


> It did, don't ask me how. That was a topic in the Discord today, I have no idea how AEW does it.


The OC, Janela and Kiss effect mate, that’s how


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Alright_Mate said:


> The OC, Janela and Kiss effect mate, that’s how


Maybe so! It's a powerful trio.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> That’s why I’m still here. It’s always good to have both sides and I’m not a superfan like your guys like to think. And remember it’s your guys that want their echo chamber - discord channel.


That's not how an echo chamber works though. If we already have an echo chamber then why on Earth would we still come here to attempt to discuss wrestling with people who would rather discuss us? We invited Bdon who has very different opinions to us and have discussed sending invites to people like prosper who can actually carry out a discussion.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yes, that was last week when the typical Dynamite thread had like 15 pages and had a significant ratings drop of 200k (Later corrected to 125k). I was surprised about that also.
> 
> I think I only asked the question of if maybe the Moxley run was getting stale. Then people answered saying "Nah, tonight's show just didn't have any controversy" so I left it alone.
> 
> You guys all got to chill, my opinions or questions aren't that important. Don't worry about what I say, worry about your own personal enjoyment of AEW


I don't know why I need to calm down, I am objectively assessing why your posts can be interpreted as you trolling, it's either that or sheer incompetence given you are using metrics like forum pages, and viewership being down because of head to head wrestling competition to justify your opinions.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I don't know why I need to calm down, I am objectively assessing why your posts can be interpreted as you trolling, it's either that or sheer incompetence given you are using metrics like forum pages, and viewership being down because of head to head wrestling competition to justify your opinions.


using thread counts for a forum thats losing AEW fans daily is not dissimilar to clutching at straws. the other forum has over 1200 posts just for last night. people embarrass themselves more and more as AEW only increases in popularity.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Actually, with our discord channel we were talking about who to bring into the channel recently and @prosperwithdeen was actually a name that was suggested. Thought process by the person that suggested him was that yes, he is an AEW fan but he isn't annoying about it and he offers different perspective and intelligent posts therefore we wanted him. I guess Prosper has denied the invite because he isn't in there but you can't say we haven't tried.
> 
> Really we just want people who are interesting, smart and that we get along with in there. It has nothing to do with an echo chamber.


I don't remember ever receiving an invite. Even if I were to get one I doubt I would have the time to actually discuss on there in addition to discussing on here. Things are starting to pile on in my life (in a good way), I'll also be starting 2 work at home jobs soon which will take up even more time, but worth it due to the drastic overall increase in income, and I find it impossible to even participate in the live thread most weeks or watch the show live these days, which sucks because I really like the live experience of AEW. I do appreciate the thought and compliments though.


----------



## .christopher.

Wait, so there are actual adults leaving this forum because two posters share their legit criticisms about aew? Two posters they can easily ignore?

As if aew fans couldn't get anymore precious.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> using thread counts for a forum thats losing AEW fans daily is not dissimilar to clutching at straws. the other forum has over 1200 posts just for last night. people embarrass themselves more and more as AEW only increases in popularity.


This is the forum that has people calling for OC to be world champ, yes? I have thought about posting there, but the average fan age there seems to be about 12.


----------



## Cult03

.christopher. said:


> Wait, so there are actual adults leaving this forum because two posters share their legit criticisms about aew? Two posters they can easily ignore?
> 
> As if aew fans couldn't get anymore precious.


I think the ignore function is broken. For some reason those who claim they use it continue to talk with me? Weird.


----------



## Cult03

Lheurch said:


> This is the forum that has people calling for OC to be world champ, yes? I have thought about posting there, but the average fan age there seems to be about 12.


18-49, mate.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> using thread counts for a forum thats losing AEW fans daily is not dissimilar to clutching at straws. the other forum has over 1200 posts just for last night. people embarrass themselves more and more as AEW only increases in popularity.


Yeah, 1200 posts but nothing ever of any substance. Just guys agreeing with one another about how awesome Orange is and making Michael Nakazawa appreciation threads. @Lheurch makes fun of them pretty much weekly.



.christopher. said:


> Wait, so there are actual adults leaving this forum because two posters share their legit criticisms about aew? Two posters they can easily ignore?
> 
> As if aew fans couldn't get anymore precious.


Yup. I also actively encourage people to block me if they don't like me. I don't get it.


----------



## One Shed

Cult03 said:


> 18-49, mate.


Frightening if true.


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, 1200 posts but nothing ever of any substance. Just guys agreeing with one another about how awesome Orange is and making Michael Nakazawa appreciation threads. @Lheurch makes fun of them pretty much weekly.


Their circle jerk parties are decent comedy at least. Gives me a laugh during work hours.


----------



## Klitschko

.christopher. said:


> Wait, so there are actual adults leaving this forum because two posters share their legit criticisms about aew? Two posters they can easily ignore?
> 
> As if aew fans couldn't get anymore precious.


Personally I dont mind them, but I can see how some people would be sick of it. Its not necessarily the two posters fault, but every single fucking thread on here turns into shit talking about Chip and Cult to a lesser extent and Chips personal life. Its hard for someone to enjoy this forum when you go into a topic about something that happened on Dynamite and by page 2 it turns into a trolling contest and the mods on this forum let it happen.


----------



## Cult03

Klitschko said:


> Personally I dont mind them, but I can see how some people would be sick of it. Its not necessarily the two posters fault, but every single fucking thread on here turns into shit talking about Chip and Cult to a lesser extent and Chips personal life. Its hard for someone to enjoy this forum when you go into a topic about something that happened on Dynamite and by page 2 it turns into a trolling contest and the mods on this forum let it happen.


If it makes things better, I'm pretty sick of talking about myself and Chip too. We can't be that interesting.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> Personally I dont mind them, but I can see how some people would be sick of it. Its not necessarily the two posters fault, but every single fucking thread on here turns into shit talking about Chip and Cult to a lesser extent and Chips personal life. Its hard for someone to enjoy this forum when you go into a topic about something that happened on Dynamite and by page 2 it turns into a trolling contest and the mods on this forum let it happen.


Yeah, personally I dislike it also. I just want to talk wrestling but I have guys going over my posts with a fine tooth comb just looking for the opportunity to go "AHA! BUT ON JULY 22ND YOU SAID THIS! YOU FUCKING HYPOCRITE!"

Mods are really good though, they usually ban anyone who makes a personal attack or takes it too far.


----------



## One Shed

Klitschko said:


> Personally I dont mind them, but I can see how some people would be sick of it. Its not necessarily the two posters fault, but every single fucking thread on here turns into shit talking about Chip and Cult to a lesser extent and Chips personal life. Its hard for someone to enjoy this forum when you go into a topic about something that happened on Dynamite and by page 2 it turns into a trolling contest and the mods on this forum let it happen.


It is quite strange to see people make personal attacks about people on an internet forum when the ignore button exists. As someone fascinated by human psychology, I think the issue is much more interesting. Like when @The Wood stopped posting in here, several people seemed to suddenly be missing part of their lives. The religious, echo chamber lovers could so easily fix their problems with one click of a button, but they so much enjoy telling everyone who do not live in a black and white universe to just stop watching. They get some kind of enjoyment and fulfillment from doing that.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

If ya'll don't give me a break I'm going to go off and join Tennis Forum which is being advertised on the side.


----------



## Cult03

Lheurch said:


> It is quite strange to see people make personal attacks about people on an internet forum when the ignore button exists. As someone fascinated by human psychology, I think the issue is much more interesting. Like when @The Wood stopped posting in here, several people seemed to suddenly be missing part of their lives. The religious, echo chamber lovers could so easily fix their problems with one click of a button, but they so much enjoy telling everyone who do not live in a black and white universe to just stop watching. They get some kind of enjoyment and fulfillment from doing that.


They literally call us out when we haven't posted in a new thread and then whinge when we complain. There's no winning, because just like AEW doesn't exist without the bad guy that is WWE, they had to fabricate their own bad guy and weirdly, the guys that speak negatively about some of the things AEW does is their WWE.


----------



## One Shed

Cult03 said:


> They literally call us out when we haven't posted in a new thread and then whinge when we complain. There's no winning, because just like AEW doesn't exist without the bad guy that is WWE, they had to fabricate their own bad guy and weirdly, the guys that speak negatively about some of the things AEW does is their WWE.


It is similar to Vince and Cornette being the biggest heels in AEW despite never appearing on an AEW screen, and Vince specifically has 100% never even watched their product. I believe several people on here have conversations with us in their own minds and then post things based on that as if we actually said those things. That is the only explanation for some of the things I see on here.


----------



## Klitschko

And putting The Cult and Chip on ignore doesn't solve much when every other post is still going to be other people talking about them instead of topic on hand so what are you supposed to do at that point?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> And putting The Cult and Chip on ignore doesn't solve much when every other post is still going to be other people talking about them instead of topic on hand so what are you supposed to do at that point?


People need to get over us, we're just two dudes no different from anyone else on here. I've had guys legitimately try and analyse me psychologically on this forum writing hundreds of words about what they think I'm like and stuff like that. It's fucking weird and kind of rude, lol


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> This is the forum that has people calling for OC to be world champ, yes? I have thought about posting there, but the average fan age there seems to be about 12.


wf? I’ve never seen anyone call for that. That’d be ridiculous lmao


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> *Yeah, personally I dislike it also. I just want to talk wrestling but I have guys going over my posts with a fine tooth comb just looking for the opportunity to go "AHA! BUT ON JULY 22ND YOU SAID THIS! YOU FUCKING HYPOCRITE!"*
> 
> Mods are really good though, they usually ban anyone who makes a personal attack or takes it too far.


Lol I agree with most of what you all are saying, I'm kind of tired of threads being derailed myself, but let's not act like you're innocent of the bolded text. You have gone back to find my old posts and others as well to prove a point. Your hands are not clean either. Both sides need to chill.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> wf? I’ve never seen anyone call for that. That’d be ridiculous lmao


Not this forum, the echo chamber one.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol I agree with most of what you all are saying, I'm kind of tired of threads being derailed myself, but let's not act like you're innocent of the bolded text. You have gone back to find my old posts and others as well to prove a point. Your hands are not clean either. Both sides need to chill.


Yes, I only do that when people deny things though. People legit will misremember things I said from months ago and bring it up.

Hell, I had some dude accuse me of saying something a week or two ago that I didn't even remember saying.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> Not this forum, the echo chamber one.


ah fair

thats why i enjoy posting on /wooo/


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> like i said chip, you and your mates drove off a lot of fans mate. there is now a disconnect between actual AEW fans and this place because of you. it's troubling for WF, not for AEW.


So true - I am part of an AEW twitter chat group with a fair few people and the AEW discord

WF is a rare breed for its relentless, unmoving negativity - especially in an ‘ad naseum‘ way

like just on and on and on and on


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> It is quite strange to see people make personal attacks about people on an internet forum when the ignore button exists. As someone fascinated by human psychology, I think the issue is much more interesting. Like when @The Wood stopped posting in here, several people seemed to suddenly be missing part of their lives. The religious, echo chamber lovers could so easily fix their problems with one click of a button, but they so much enjoy telling everyone who do not live in a black and white universe to just stop watching. They get some kind of enjoyment and fulfillment from doing that.


Well, its the same thing as hate watching, no?

I had to step back and realise I am ‘hate reading’ - I have guys on ignore, then off, then on - and get triggered by the dumbest things that don’t matter as a result

Up to a point where I was banned my 2nd time (2nd time in 10 years mind you - but both in 2020 - should tell you something)

and then I realised - ‘how can I knock somebody for ‘hate watching’ AEW or WWE - but I keep hate reading’

boop - all back in ignore that I feel I can never have a conversation with that benefits both parties - and happy as Larry

I still disagree with some people on here - but its the normal type of disagreeing (mostly like me and @RapShepard normally  Or even yourself @Lheurch ) not the ‘oh, what you are actually implying is that I’m a massive cunt for liking what i like’ ect - which admittedly is an over-reaction. But one I can’t stop - therefore, ignore 

you have to understand your own weakness too


----------



## Hayabusasc

LifeInCattleClass said:


> So true - I am part of an AEW twitter chat group with a fair few people and the AEW discord
> 
> WF is a rare breed for its relentless, unmoving negativity - especially in an ‘ad naseum‘ way
> 
> like just on and on and on and on


As someone who was a long time lurker to this forum (having not posted for 10 years!), this is absolutely true.

I think it's indicative of quite a lot of how the world is at the moment, you have two groups of people who hold the opposing view and both end up moving to the extremes of their position and accusing eachother of that which they are guilty of whilst playing the victim.

That in turn puts other people off of posting in the forum because they don't want to get involved in the negative spirals and pointless arguments.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hayabusasc said:


> As someone who was a long time lurker to this forum (having not posted for 10 years!), this is absolutely true.
> 
> I think it's indicative of quite a lot of how the world is at the moment, you have two groups of people who hold the opposing view and both end up moving to the extremes of their position and accusing eachother of that which they are guilty of whilst playing the victim.
> 
> That in turn puts other people off of posting in the forum because they don't want to get involved in the negative spirals and pointless arguments.


Agreed mate - the world is more one of ‘absolutes’ these days

and people hate being wrong - so, it becomes a double down (on all sides)

and really, who benefits from that?

I’ve had ”discussions“ on here that feels like a knife fight - there’s not point to those - they make you unhappy and dislike the show

it is also as you say, not an environment that welcomes new posters as a result - which makes me think we’re just 20 guys shouting at each other

which is even more funny when you think about it


----------



## RubberbandGoat

But isn’t giving OC a championship run smart business? Isn’t it proven that he sells a lot of merchandise and is popular? Isn’t it smart business sense to make him champion? It would have been stupid back in the day for WWE not to give it to Bryan when he was white hot, so why can’t AEW give it to OC? If you’re the most popular why not? Isn’t it a business? It doesn’t have to be for a long time.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RubberbandGoat said:


> But isn’t giving OC a championship run smart business? Isn’t it proven that he sells a lot of merchandise and is popular? Isn’t it smart business sense to make him champion? It would have been stupid back in the day for WWE not to give it to Bryan when he was white hot, so why can’t AEW give it to OC? If you’re the most popular why not? Isn’t it a business? It doesn’t have to be for a long time.


why does the champion only have to be the merchandise seller or draw?
you want everyone to draw and sell merchandise.

the idea that the champion can only be the merchandise seller or draw is WWE thinking and trash


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

AEW 835 .32

NXT 696 .18

Pretty decent considering NBA competition, news being up and Masked Singer Finale.


----------



## El Hammerstone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1309221258920419330


----------



## Erik.

News impacted it quite a bit.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

0.32, in the top 10 - steady on

not as good as I hoped, nowhere close to their lows of 0.26

just par for the course / for a par episode

nothing to see here, carry on


----------



## EmbassyForever

This is embarrassing. Just end this "war" already.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Erik. said:


> News impacted it quite a bit.


NBA Playoffs more-so, they had no NBA last week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lolz


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1309221675901358090


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

both shows suffer because of this war

i don't think vince cares.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Isn’t the real news of the week that AEW’s Late Night Dynamite after 12:30 AM did more in the Key Demo And ranked higher than a normal NXT?

if not, it should be


----------



## Prosper

Not bad, protests have started again and the NBA playoffs are going so this is to be expected, they’re no longer unopposed as well. With all that considered I think 835K is a solid cable viewership. NXT should definitely move to Tuesday though, when they were unopposed they were in the mid 800’s and Dynamite was in the million range. It’s best for both shows. Until then, I am honestly just about losing interest in this weekly head to head thing.

We can’t get the real numbers and cable growth for AEW when NXT is stifling them. Late Night Dynamite did 585K with a great demo ffs, so Dynamite would have easily done over a mil with an even better demo.


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Isn’t the real news of the week that AEW’s Late Night Dynamite after 12:30 AM did more in the Key Demo And ranked higher than a normal NXT?
> 
> if not, it should be


It was a very impressive number given the start time was not exactly something anyone knew and how late it was. Plus I felt like I was the only one on here live watching it so the number is definitely impressive.


----------



## RapShepard

RelivingTheShadow said:


> AEW 835 .32
> 
> NXT 696 .18
> 
> Pretty decent considering NBA competition, news being up and Masked Singer Finale.


I thought the season of mask singer just started, does that shit ever go the fuck off lol


----------



## RapShepard

800k with some variance for a big advertised show or badly advertised show seems to be their thing.

They should go all out promoting the anniversary episode. See if they can get over a million even with NXT showing.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Isn’t the real news of the week that AEW’s Late Night Dynamite after 12:30 AM did more in the Key Demo And ranked higher than a normal NXT?
> 
> if not, it should be


Really interesting would be the q hours for this. With a 0.78 lead in, not sure how many of these just keep the tv on or fell asleep for the after nba show? 

And why do we generally need to talk about NXT in here? Thought it is about AEW ratings? Seems pretty desperate.


----------



## rbl85

NBA took them a couple thousands viewers.

Is the NBA on next week ?


----------



## 3venflow

The Jericho 30th anniversary could do a good rating too. I wonder if they'll bring in any special guests...? I'm not familiar with the travel restrictions in North America, but could Bret Hart get down for a show?


----------



## RiverFenix

3venflow said:


> The Jericho 30th anniversary could do a good rating too. I wonder if they'll bring in any special guests...? I'm not familiar with the travel restrictions in North America, but could Bret Hart get down for a show?


It's up against the (only) Vice Presidential debate. It's why the Anniversary show was put on Oct 14th.

I want Lance Storm and Jericho to wrestle on the show. Given the ratings issue mentioned above, make it completely self indulgent. Jericho has mentioned he's like to wrestle Lance Storm one last time.


----------



## DaSlacker

They've won the 'war' with NXT. The longterm vision should be to forget about WWE and the 2 hour weekly serialized format of Dynamite and trying grow to 1.5 million viewers. Concentrate on building the brand, being a strong partner for WarnerMedia's cable division and maintaining those 1 million viewers. With time and more 1 hour shows (e.g a Saturday evening show, a late night slot) the audience will grow.


----------



## RiverFenix

The secondary 1-hour long show will probably beat Dynamite's rating if it's unopposed at a reasonable day and time.


----------



## kingfrass44

RubberbandGoat said:


> But isn’t giving OC a championship run smart business? Isn’t it proven that he sells a lot of merchandise and is popular? Isn’t it smart business sense to make him champion? It would have been stupid back in the day for WWE not to give it to Bryan when he was white hot, so why can’t AEW give it to OC? If you’re the most popular why not? Isn’t it a business? It doesn’t have to be for a long time.


only OC popular With Smark


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

kingfrass44 said:


> only OC popular With Smark


you Wrong OC draw 1 million viewers


----------



## Jazminator

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I want Lance Storm and Jericho to wrestle on the show. Given the ratings issue mentioned above, make it completely self indulgent. Jericho has mentioned he's like to wrestle Lance Storm one last time.


Wow, that would be fantastic! Love that idea!


----------



## Aedubya

wrestlinginc.com is such a pro WWE website it's unbelievable


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RapShepard said:


> 800k with some variance for a big advertised show or badly advertised show seems to be their thing.


That's there thing right now, they were fluctuating high 600 low 700 just a few months ago. They are now at pre-pandemic numbers, it'll be interesting if they can grow from that because that would be an actual story.


----------



## kingfrass44

Hayabusasc said:


> As someone who was a long time lurker to this forum (having not posted for 10 years!), this is absolutely true.
> 
> I think it's indicative of quite a lot of how the world is at the moment, you have two groups of people who hold the opposing view and both end up moving to the extremes of their position and accusing eachother of that which they are guilty of whilst playing the victim.
> 
> That in turn puts other people off of posting in the forum because they don't want to get involved in the negative spirals and pointless arguments.


you Wrong and there is no logic in your words


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> you Wrong OC draw 1 million viewers


If you're only getting 1 million viewers, then you're not really "drawing," are you?


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> If ya'll don't give me a break I'm going to go off and join Tennis Forum which is being advertised on the side.


Sense everyone else “no sold” this, I will let you know I spit out my water. Shit is funny AF, so maybe we’re the only two that notice that shit..? Lol


prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol I agree with most of what you all are saying, I'm kind of tired of threads being derailed myself, but let's not act like you're innocent of the bolded text. You have gone back to find my old posts and others as well to prove a point. Your hands are not clean either. Both sides need to chill.


Both sides have been acting innocent since I began posting here 


optikk sucks said:


> you Wrong OC draw 1 million viewers


aew not ratings
aew smark only


kingfrass44 said:


> you Wrong and there is no logic in your words


Holy shit!!! Bwahahah


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> If you're only getting 1 million viewers, then you're not really "drawing," are you?


This is a return I can get behind. Fuck the Cody rHHHodes return.


----------



## The Wood

Missed you too, donster. 

I feel like Cody was gone about two weeks. Is this his Triple H getting dropped by a crane impression?


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Missed you too, donster.
> 
> I feel like Cody was gone about two weeks. Is this his Triple H getting dropped by a crane impression?


Hold the fuck up!!

Hunter got dropped by a crane at some point in my nearly 2 decade hiatus? Time to make the YouTube search my friend.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> If you're only getting 1 million viewers, then you're not really "drawing," are you?


you Wrong smark population only 300k


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Hold the fuck up!!
> 
> Hunter got dropped by a crane at some point in my nearly 2 decade hiatus? Time to make the YouTube search my friend.


By stone cold


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> By stone cold


Goddamn I hate WWE. The AE gets all that love, but I fucking hated it then and hate it today, even if I have learned to appreciate Austin, The Rock, etc comedy bits more with age.


----------



## Hephaesteus

I wont even tell you about the time that rock threw stone cold off of a bridge


----------



## bdon

Hephaesteus said:


> I wont even tell you about the time that stone cold threw the rock off of a bridge


I remember that one, because my younger brother had to be around 10-11 at the time and came running in to tell me about it.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> Goddamn I hate WWE. The AE gets all that love, but I fucking hated it then and hate it today, even if I have learned to appreciate Austin, The Rock, etc comedy bits more with age.


You just don't understand the intricacies of what was going on at the time. You see, the forklift was red which signified that Triple H was REaDy to be the FOTC. Austin referred to him as a "son of a bitch" which was a precursor to Triple becoming Vince's son in law, allowing for him to eventually become the king of WWE. Triple H shouted "Austin" numerous times. Where is Austin? Texas. Everything is bigger in Texas. This occured when Triple H was at his most buff, so he was huge. Austin also said "now you're history" which is absolutely insane fortelling. Also the absolute craziest part? Weeks before Jerry Lawler said "we just can't tell what Austin is going to do next". Next... NXT?! HOLY SHIT


----------



## Klitschko

Cult03 said:


> You just don't understand the intricacies of what was going on at the time. You see, the forklift was red which signified that Triple H was REaDy to be the FOTC. Austin referred to him as a "son of a bitch" which was a precursor to Triple becoming Vince's son in law, allowing for him to eventually become the king of WWE. Triple H shouted "Austin" numerous times. Where is Austin? Texas. Everything is bigger in Texas. This occured when Triple H was at his most buff, so he was huge. Austin also said "now you're history" which is absolutely insane fortelling. Also the absolute craziest part? Weeks before Jerry Lawler said "we just can't tell what Austin is going to do next". Next... NXT?! HOLY SHIT


That was beautiful.


----------



## One Shed

Cult03 said:


> You just don't understand the intricacies of what was going on at the time. You see, the forklift was red which signified that Triple H was REaDy to be the FOTC. Austin referred to him as a "son of a bitch" which was a precursor to Triple becoming Vince's son in law, allowing for him to eventually become the king of WWE. Triple H shouted "Austin" numerous times. Where is Austin? Texas. Everything is bigger in Texas. This occured when Triple H was at his most buff, so he was huge. Austin also said "now you're history" which is absolutely insane fortelling. Also the absolute craziest part? Weeks before Jerry Lawler said "we just can't tell what Austin is going to do next". Next... NXT?! HOLY SHIT


And it happened at sea. "C" is for Catwoman! Your Adam West Batman logic is awesome.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> you Wrong smark population only 300k


If you genuinely believe AEW draws between 500-700k casual wrestling fans a week then I have some great waterfront property to sell you in Broken Hill mate.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

optikk sucks said:


> why does the champion only have to be the merchandise seller or draw?
> you want everyone to draw and sell merchandise.
> 
> the idea that the champion can only be the merchandise seller or draw is WWE thinking and trash


Yeah. I never understood that. The champion is not the only fucking person on the roster. Other people can be over and sell shit too.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> If you genuinely believe AEW draws between 500-700k casual wrestling fans a week then I have some great waterfront property to sell you in Broken Hill mate.


Wrong you are AEW very casual fan population


----------



## The Wood

To whoever said that marketing a top star to be expected to draw and sell merchandise is WWE thinking and "trash," then how do you explain literally almost everybody having a shirt or something to market. The WWE is the OPPOSITE of what you said, haha. But trust the internet. WWE want to market everybody because they want their brand to be over. 

Yeah, you can have a bunch of people who can draw interest and be over at different levels. And yeah, sometimes you are going to get an undercard guy who starts moving a fair bit of merch, because of a gimmick or whatever -- but if you think your top guy should not be drawing...yikes. Promotion is aided by emphasis. If you try to get _everybody_ over, then no one is emphasised and no one is going to stand out. You have to work out who is actually capable of drawing and putting them in a position, relative to your vision, that allows them to do that.


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's not my discord, I'm just an invited member there. I didn't send Prosper the invite either so maybe nobody has even actually invited him yet.
> 
> We welcome anyone who is smart to the wrestling business and that we get along with though. You don't have to hate AEW to be liked by me, case in point I really like @Firefromthegods, Prosper, @LifeInCattleClass and even MontyCora before he went weird. I really don't care where anyone's loyalties lay, I even used to like you.
> 
> 
> 
> It did, don't ask me how. That was a topic in the Discord today, I have no idea how AEW does it.


Careful angry aussie hulk your bruce banner is showing


----------



## RubberbandGoat

What I meant was that OC sells the most merchandise therefore he’s going to get a top spot. Also, it’s not weird to let him be champion. If Jungle boy sold the most too he’d be in the conversation. It’s a business. You push the one the fans want. I’m not saying he’s the only one, just that he’s at the top so it makes sense


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> You just don't understand the intricacies of what was going on at the time. You see, the forklift was red which signified that Triple H was REaDy to be the FOTC. Austin referred to him as a "son of a bitch" which was a precursor to Triple becoming Vince's son in law, allowing for him to eventually become the king of WWE. Triple H shouted "Austin" numerous times. Where is Austin? Texas. Everything is bigger in Texas. This occured when Triple H was at his most buff, so he was huge. Austin also said "now you're history" which is absolutely insane fortelling. Also the absolute craziest part? Weeks before Jerry Lawler said "we just can't tell what Austin is going to do next". Next... NXT?! HOLY SHIT


Glad to see you’re still a fan of me.

Rent free, children.


----------



## ElTerrible

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Isn’t the real news of the week that AEW’s Late Night Dynamite after 12:30 AM did more in the Key Demo And ranked higher than a normal NXT?
> 
> if not, it should be


How so? Late at night NXT´s viewers have already been put to bed by their parents and nurses.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ElTerrible said:


> How so? Late at night NXT´s viewers have already been put to bed by their parents and nurses.


Of course, of course

gross oversight on my part


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Brodie Lee and Orange Cassidy gained 106k viewers.

The quarter after with Cody's return gained more viewers, but Meltzer didn't specify how many, that was the total viewership highpoint for the show, all though, the 18-49 high was for Moxley/Kingston.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> Glad to see you’re still a fan of me.
> 
> Rent free, children.


Huh? Of course I am a fan. You get it, just like I do?


----------



## Prosper

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Brodie Lee and Orange Cassidy gained 106k viewers.
> 
> The quarter after with Cody's return gained more viewers, but Meltzer didn't specify how many, that was the total viewership highpoint for the show, all though, the 18-49 high was for Moxley/Kingston.


Post quarterlys?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

prosperwithdeen said:


> Post quarterlys?


Meltzer just talked about it on Observer radio last night, he didn't go into detail of each specific quarter. Just said that AEW started low while NXT started high, but once the OC/Brodie match started the tides turned and that was the case for the rest of the show.

OC/Brodie actually resulted in AEW gaining 106k viewers, while NXT lost 103k, so it was a clear sign of people switching the channel for that match.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Meltzer just talked about it on Observer radio last night, he didn't go into detail of each specific quarter. Just said that AEW started low while NXT started high, but once the OC/Brodie match started the tides turned and that was the case for the rest of the show.
> 
> OC/Brodie actually resulted in AEW gaining 106k viewers, while NXT lost 103k, so it was a clear sign of people switching the channel for that match.


OC continues to draw and the stupid idiots (as Jericho puts it), want to see less of him? They don’t want to see the business succeed.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hopefully, Orange Cassidy continues to get plenty of TV time then since many viewers are apparently interested in seeing him :bjpenn


----------



## Chip Chipperson

As my pal Jim Cornette says, people will watch two dogs fuck on the side of the street, it doesn't mean the dogs are over.


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> As my pal Jim Cornette says, people will watch two dogs fuck on the side of the street, it doesn't mean the dogs are over.


Mainstream Study Determines Why Fans Stopped Watching Pro Wrestling

The data days we need MORE clowns and silliness. Oh wait.


----------



## El Hammerstone

DammitChrist said:


> Hopefully, Orange Cassidy continues to get plenty of TV time then since many viewers are apparently interested in seeing him :bjpenn


Give him a title already!


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> As my pal Jim Cornette says, people will watch two dogs fuck on the side of the street, it doesn't mean the dogs are over.


Sure, that explains why Cassidy consistently received one of the loudest positive crowd reactions/pops on a weekly basis pre-pandemic, and why he’s STILL one of the most popular acts on the show during the pandemic too.

The dude has been really over for nearly a year now. He’s definitely earned his relevant spot on TV by now.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Lheurch said:


> Mainstream Study Determines Why Fans Stopped Watching Pro Wrestling
> 
> The data days we need MORE clowns and silliness. Oh wait.


I love this study because it proves you, me, Hammerstone, Cult and everyone else who agrees with us entirely correct. I always knew we were onto something with this whole "People want to be able to suspend their disbelief" thing but a legitimate study actually confirming it is just Christmas come early.



DammitChrist said:


> Sure, that explains why Cassidy consistently received one of the loudest positive crowd reactions/pops on a weekly basis pre-pandemic, and why he’s STILL one of the most popular acts on the show during the pandemic too.
> 
> The dude has been really over for nearly a year now. He’s definitely earned his relevant spot on TV by now.


AEW fans popped enthusiastically for Scooby Doo and Jesus defeating QT Marshall in a dark match. They are not a good gauge of what is hot and what is not.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

OC is a Geek that is KILLING AEW even though he gained 106k viewers, that was all Brodie Lee and especially 10 of the dark order, everyone was really excited to see 10 ringside.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> I love this study because it proves you, me, Hammerstone, Cult and everyone else who agrees with us entirely correct. I always knew we were onto something with this whole "People want to be able to suspend their disbelief" thing but a legitimate study actually confirming it is just Christmas come early.
> 
> 
> 
> AEW fans popped enthusiastically for Scooby Doo and Jesus defeating QT Marshall in a dark match. They are not a good gauge of what is hot and what is not.


I just LOVE how you’re comparing a one-off instance to a(n obviously) popular act who’s managed to stay over with several MONTHS of different AEW crowds over the past year.

It’s like you’re just so desperate to prove that your biased narrative is “correct” because you can’t stand the fact that many AEW fans/viewers enjoy something in the product that you (and your like-minded buddies) don’t; so you resort to looking for some random survey-statistic online.


----------



## 3venflow

I don't much like OC but at the same time I can recognise his value. It's possible to see it both ways. I guess he's like the Zack Ryder of AEW, always over no matter what. But I hope his push has been curtailed a bit after Brodie beat him.

I don't like title overloads (WWE has a billion of them) but at some point AEW should consider trios titles. It'd give the likes of OC (w/ Best Friends) the chance to hold a title... and AEW likes running multi-person tags so it'd make sense in future.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> I just LOVE how you’re comparing a one-off instance to a(n obviously) popular act who’s managed to stay over with several MONTHS of different AEW crowds over the past year.
> 
> It’s like you’re just so desperate to prove that your biased narrative is “correct” because you can’t stand the fact that many AEW fans/viewers enjoy something in the product that you (and your like-minded buddies) don’t; so you resort to looking for some random survey-statistic online.


You're right, it's only being reported by Variety magazine. It's only one of the more well known entertainment magazines out there.

But it mocks your AE Dubs so of course it's now suddenly a random website doin a survey.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

El Hammerstone said:


> Give him a title already!


This isn’t wwe where only the champion has to be over. 

You want everyone to draw. Regardless of the place on their card


----------



## rbl85

Chip Chipperson said:


> You're right, it's only being reported by Variety magazine. It's only one of the more well known entertainment magazines out there.
> 
> But it mocks your AE Dubs so of course it's now suddenly a random website doin a survey.


You talk about the study in which 43% of the people said they never watched wrestling ?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

rbl85 said:


> You talk about the study in which 43% of the people said they never watched wrestling ?


That's 57% who do or did. I highly doubt they asked the ones who don't watch why they stopped watching.

Time to accept that funny don't draw money


----------



## 3venflow

Funny does draw money in the right context.

Case in point, the highest rated segment in RAW history between two charismatic, funny guys:






Personally I prefer a serious product with a _little_ bit of light relief. I don't think AEW is _that_ comic unless you watch BTE, which isn't canon. Some of the stuff has been much more intense and bloody than what we've seen on WWE in recent years, like Cody getting flogged, MJF beating Mox to a bloody pulp and Cody vs. Dustin as three examples.

The Attitude Era had more weird, comic style stuff than AEW, like the Venus/Kaientai 'choppy choppy your pee pee' stuff, Mae Young's hand and the Bossman crashing Big Show dad's funeral. Nothing close to this level in AEW thus far.

However, when OC is lightly kicking someone's shins, that bugs me because it takes me out of the pulls away the immersion of what I usually find a good show.


----------



## The Wood

There are two kind of people in this world: 

1. People who think that Orange Cassidy selling a few shirts to a captive audience and increasing ratings by 100k is a great thing. 
2. People who understand that this audience isn't good for wrestling and that those 100k are traded off for a cap that prevents millions more watching. 

The people in category 1 would go to a casino and win $14,000 in a night they spend $10,000 and think that they're up $4k. Then you ask them about how much money they've previously spent at casinos where they haven't won any money and they'll just stare at you blankly.

It's exactly the same sort of gambler's style fallacy. It's probably got a proper name. People see Orange Cassidy spike 108k and think it's a big fucking deal and amazing, but they don't see how much has been sunk around it. They hear he sells shirts, but they don't have a context to how well that actually means they're doing, how bad other stuff is doing, or whether or not that could be someone else that isn't going to cap your winnings at a certain level. It's a way of thinking that just...traps people, I guess. Maybe some people can think their way out of it when it's staring them in the face, but there's a reason people have been playing on humanity's inability to really think their way around numbers. Try explaining exponential numbers to someone. They actually feel physical pain sometimes, haha.



3venflow said:


> Funny does draw money in the right context.
> 
> Case in point, the highest rated segment in RAW history between two charismatic, funny guys:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally I prefer a serious product with a _little_ bit of light relief. I don't think AEW is _that_ comic unless you watch BTE, which isn't canon. Some of the stuff has been much more intense and bloody than what we've seen on WWE in recent years, like Cody getting flogged, MJF beating Mox to a bloody pulp and Cody vs. Dustin as three examples.
> 
> The Attitude Era had more weird, comic style stuff than AEW, like the Venus/Kaientai 'choppy choppy your pee pee' stuff, Mae Young's hand and the Bossman crashing Big Show dad's funeral. Nothing close to this level in AEW thus far.
> 
> However, when OC is lightly kicking someone's shins, that bugs me because it takes me out of the pulls away the immersion of what I usually find a good show.


That's not what the saying means though. "Funny don't draw money" isn't referring to a humorous line in a promo. Or a heel eventually showing ass. You're taking the phrase too literally in this context. I just want to clear that up, because people will run away with this and use it slander Cornette or something, when he's one of the biggest Rock advocates there was. You either understand what a wrestling sage means by "funny" or you don't. 

Orange Cassidy is "funny" because he's taking the piss out of wrestling. There's a difference between taking the piss out of wrestling and taking the piss out of your opinion, as long as people are going to still see them as threat enough to fight you. That's serious.


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Wood said:


> There are two kind of people in this world:
> 
> 1. People who think that Orange Cassidy selling a few shirts to a captive audience and increasing ratings by 100k is a great thing.
> 2. People who understand that this audience isn't good for wrestling and that those 100k are traded off for a cap that prevents millions more watching.
> 
> The people in category 1 would go to a casino and win $14,000 in a night they spend $10,000 and think that they're up $4k. Then you ask them about how much money they've previously spent at casinos where they haven't won any money and they'll just stare at you blankly.
> 
> It's exactly the same sort of gambler's style fallacy. It's probably got a proper name. People see Orange Cassidy spike 108k and think it's a big fucking deal and amazing, but they don't see how much has been sunk around it. They hear he sells shirts, but they don't have a context to how well that actually means they're doing, how bad other stuff is doing, or whether or not that could be someone else that isn't going to cap your winnings at a certain level. It's a way of thinking that just...traps people, I guess. Maybe some people can think their way out of it when it's staring them in the face, but there's a reason people have been playing on humanity's inability to really think their way around numbers. Try explaining exponential numbers to someone. They actually feel physical pain sometimes, haha.


Basically, Orange Cassidy is representative of a certain philosophy/approach that had chased many away in the early stages (I've heard many admit as much over a span of months). Once these people have moved on, you're left with the bubble of fans that are strong advocates for this kind of thing, and OC as expected, draws within that bubble. I said many months ago that this very thing would happen, and here we are.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

So, increasing viewership by 108k is actually a bad thing, as it turns out? Thank goodness we have some experts on here, I would have totally misunderstood the situation.


----------



## The Wood

El Hammerstone said:


> Basically, Orange Cassidy is representative of a certain philosophy/approach that had chased many away in the early stages (I've heard many admit as much over a span of months). Once these people have moved on, you're left with the bubble of fans that are strong advocates for this kind of thing, and OC as expected, draws within that bubble. I said many months ago that this very thing would happen, and here we are.


Yep. If you want to see it in major form, see how Cena chased away many in the WWE (although he's provided many other business positives), only for him now to be an actual draw when he shows up. He draws to that reduced crowd.



Pentagon Senior said:


> So, increasing viewership by 108k is actually a bad thing, as it turns out? Thank goodness we have some experts on here, I would have totally misunderstood the situation.


It was spelt out to you pretty fucking clearly above. If you still can't get it, then you won't get it.

"Hey, you've won $500!"
"Fucking sweet!"
"That will cost you $600!"
"Fucking sweet!"

I swear AEW apologists would be the easiest people in the world to work. Especially since they think they're above it.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> Yep. If you want to see it in major form, see how Cena chased away many in the WWE (although he's provided many other business positives), only for him now to be an actual draw when he shows up. He draws to that reduced crowd.
> 
> 
> 
> It was spelt out to you pretty fucking clearly above. If you still can't get it, then you won't get it.
> 
> "Hey, you've won $500!"
> "Fucking sweet!"
> "That will cost you $600!"
> "Fucking sweet!"
> 
> I swear AEW apologists would be the easiest people in the world to work. Especially since they think they're above it.


Why so angry?

You know, there's two types of people in the world
1) those who see an inrease in viewership of 108k as a good thing
2) those who twist it into being a bad thing

Your gambling analogy is waffle


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Why so angry?
> 
> You know, there's two types of people in the world
> 1) those who see an inrease in viewership of 108k as a good thing
> 2) those who twist it into being a bad thing
> 
> Your gambling analogy is waffle


I'm not angry. Stop projecting in a fallacious way to try and attempt to appear more reasonable. Actually try and use reason. _Why_ is it waffle? Explain to me how the AEW audience, in a wrestling context, is actually impressive and how it's not capped. I can explain why it isn't impressive and how it is capped, but I want to see you, with your cool fucking demeanour, try.

It ain't twisting, by the way. But another nice try of language to try and discredit someone without actually addressing them.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

El Hammerstone said:


> Basically, Orange Cassidy is representative of a certain philosophy/approach that had chased many away in the early stages (I've heard many admit as much over a span of months). Once these people have moved on, you're left with the bubble of fans that are strong advocates for this kind of thing, and OC as expected, draws within that bubble. I said many months ago that this very thing would happen, and here we are.


yet, people aren’t fans of his are still watching and the ratings have increased to pre-pandemic levels

where is the proof that he ‘turned people away?’

can’t be episode 1 doing 1.4 and ep 2 doing 1 to our current numbers - he wasn’t featured

in fact, there’s more proof that he’s brought an upswing and rating stability

he was part of the lowest drawing segment in the start when they begun this Jericho stuff - and now he’s part of the highest at the end


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> I'm not angry. Stop projecting in a fallacious way to try and attempt to appear more reasonable. Actually try and use reason. _Why_ is it waffle? Explain to me how the AEW audience, in a wrestling context, is actually impressive and how it's not capped. I can explain why it isn't impressive and how it is capped, but I want to see you, with your cool fucking demeanour, try.
> 
> It ain't twisting, by the way. But another nice try of language to try and discredit someone without actually addressing them.


Fair enough but you still sound angry to me

A rise in viewership of 108k sounds to me like a good thing! It's as simple as that

I'm not interested in the rest of your tangential waffle


----------



## Not Lying

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yet, people aren’t fans of his are still watching and the ratings have increased to pre-pandemic levels
> 
> where is the proof that he ‘turned people away?’
> 
> can’t be episode 1 doing 1.4 and ep 2 doing 1 to our current numbers - he wasn’t featured
> 
> in fact, there’s more proof that he’s brought an upswing and rating stability
> 
> he was part of the lowest drawing segment in the start when they begun this Jericho stuff - and now he’s part of the highest at the end


It's kind of ridiculous that these people who shit on OC's entire shtick have ZERO proof that what he's doing is "turning people off", yet, we HAVE proof he's drawing people in more than his peers, and yet they wana act like we're the crazy ones?
Some people's entire shtick is pretending "things would be better if they did what I said" and just live off on that with ZERO proof.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

So, what the AEW apologists don't understand and what Wood is desperately trying to explain but has people being deliberately ignorant is that yes Orange Cassidy might offer a temporary boost to ratings but he's hurting the product long term.

Kind of like when/if you've ever been broke and you go out and max your credit card. You have some temporary relief but you know at the end of the month the bank is going to come looking for it's money and then you're really fucked.

It's the same situation here, yeah AEW is getting a small boost right now from Orange but what damage will it do a year from now? Hell, what damage has it already done? The statistics are in front of you, the people tuned out because of hokey comedy bullshit which is the epitome of what OC is. I guarantee for every 100,000 person he gains AEW he's ran double that off or WILL run them off. Even the guys own co-workers were having a laugh publicly about how ludicrous it is that Chris Jericho Vs Orange Cassidy was actually a thing that AEW was charging money for.

By the way, David Arquette pumped up television ratings when he was WCW Champion. Going by some of the logic on here we should've seen David Arquette successfully defending the World Title against Kevin Nash clean as you like.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> So, what the AEW apologists don't understand and what Wood is desperately trying to explain but has people being deliberately ignorant is that yes Orange Cassidy might offer a temporary boost to ratings but he's hurting the product long term.
> 
> Kind of like when/if you've ever been broke and you go out and max your credit card. You have some temporary relief but you know at the end of the month the bank is going to come looking for it's money and then you're really fucked.
> 
> It's the same situation here, yeah AEW is getting a small boost right now from Orange but what damage will it do a year from now? Hell, what damage has it already done? The statistics are in front of you, the people tuned out because of hokey comedy bullshit which is the epitome of what OC is. I guarantee for every 100,000 person he gains AEW he's ran double that off or WILL run them off. Even the guys own co-workers were having a laugh publicly about how ludicrous it is that Chris Jericho Vs Orange Cassidy was actually a thing that AEW was charging money for.
> 
> By the way, David Arquette pumped up television ratings when he was WCW Champion. Going by some of the logic on here we should've seen David Arquette successfully defending the World Title against Kevin Nash clean as you like.


Lot's of words and speculation but no evidence to support the claim. The only evidence we have to hand is his segment gained 108k viewers, so...

If that survey is correct and people turned away due to goofiness, does MLW better fit the brief? Will they bring back the millions of lapsed fans?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pentagon Senior said:


> If that survey is correct and people turned away due to goofiness, does MLW better fit the brief? Will they bring back the millions of lapsed fans?


How could they? Their most well known wrestler to the mainstream is probably Davey Boy Smith Jr.

Apparently ROH is taking shit seriously again, they might be the best opportunity to do it but they'd need the NPW relationship firing on all cylinders and significant budget to sign some top stars.


----------



## Cult03

The Definition of Technician said:


> It's kind of ridiculous that these people who shit on OC's entire shtick have ZERO proof that what he's doing is "turning people off", yet, we HAVE proof he's drawing people in more than his peers, and yet they wana act like we're the crazy ones?
> Some people's entire shtick is pretending "things would be better if they did what I said" and just live off on that with ZERO proof.


Hey, I have proof. Me. I turned off because of him specifically. I was able to tolerate the rest of the shit, but I drew the line at the OC push.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> How could they? Their most well known wrestler to the mainstream is probably Davey Boy Smith Jr.
> 
> Apparently ROH is taking shit seriously again, they might be the best opportunity to do it but they'd need the NPW relationship firing on all cylinders and significant budget to sign some top stars.


I don't expect them to either. Nor do I expect ROH to bring back the lapsed fans - I've only seen bits and pieces but found it boring.

I think to some extent the AE and Monday Night War was of its time, the perfect storm. I imagine there are many lapsed fans who fall into the category of wanting to like wrestling again for notalgic reasons but have just grown out of it and can't stay hooked. Times have moved on. I'm somewhat in that camp but as things stand AEW is the only offering that keeps me somewhat interested. For me, they just need to concentrate on having coherent storylines with weekly hooks to keep people interested. They're pretty good at that but there's definitely room for improvement (there have been some lulls). The pandemic has been a huge challenge too bearing in mind they're a new company - that can't be discounted - and they've managed to recover impressively from the initial slump.


----------



## Dizzie

This idea of oc drawing, I'm curious how many of these rises in the ratings he supposedly brings to the show are when he is in a segment/match with an ex wwe guy? I would be interested to see over the past year the trend in aew's quartely ratings when an ex-wwe guy is featured because it was only a week or two ago that Brodie (ex wwe) vs dusty (ex-wwe) drew over a million and the youtube views of aew's official video clips featuring miro (ex-wwe) are far higher than the rest.

I know a few people on here have an issues with aew hiring ex wwe guys but I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers tell ya it has a positive viewership effect for aew, you only have to look at wcw's rise to competing with wwe/f came about when ted Turner flexed his financial muscle and started hiring a load of well known wwe guys, same thing with tna when they were starting to see encouraging viewership numbers.


----------



## bdon

Orange Cassidy draws from a small portion of the overall population. Roughly 2 million wrestling fans, and only about 40% of those are willing to watch AEW. Cassidy draws well from that very small niche in existence.

But having guys like him makes it difficult to even earn that other 60 percent’s time, effort, and money.

And that is completely ignore the other 350+ million in the US who are potential wrestling fans but refuse.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Orange Cassidy draws from a small portion of the overall population. Roughly 2 million wrestling fans, and only about 40% of those are willing to watch AEW. Cassidy draws well from that very small niche in existence.
> 
> But having guys like him makes it difficult to even earn that other 60 percent’s time, effort, and money.
> 
> And that is completely ignore the other 350+ million in the US who are potential wrestling fans but refuse.


OC has reached mainstream meme pages. There is potential for him to work and draw. Midgets drew people to boxing last night. You guys can’t tell us what the mainstream population want Cus you’re old as fuck and not in the target population - teenagers lmao


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

_OC draws 1 million_
“But...but...but....BuT ThAtS jUst WrEstliNg BuBbLe. He caNt DrAw tHe MaiNsTreAm auDiEncE”

Who are you? The mainstream experts? Lmao bruh we all in our late 20s to early 50s. We old as fuck.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> _OC draws 1 million_
> “But...but...but....BuT ThAtS jUst WrEstliNg BuBbLe. He caNt DrAw tHe MaiNsTreAm auDiEncE”
> 
> Who are you? The mainstream experts? Lmao bruh we all in* our late 20s* to early 50s. We old as fuck.


That's far from old


----------



## BigCy

Cult03 said:


> You just don't understand the intricacies of what was going on at the time. You see, the forklift was red which signified that Triple H was REaDy to be the FOTC. Austin referred to him as a "son of a bitch" which was a precursor to Triple becoming Vince's son in law, allowing for him to eventually become the king of WWE. Triple H shouted "Austin" numerous times. Where is Austin? Texas. Everything is bigger in Texas. This occured when Triple H was at his most buff, so he was huge. Austin also said "now you're history" which is absolutely insane fortelling. Also the absolute craziest part? Weeks before Jerry Lawler said "we just can't tell what Austin is going to do next". Next... NXT?! HOLY SHIT


I usually stay out of the ratings thread but I still pop in from time to time to watch the banter but usually don't reply but this got me haha...Strong Black Dynamite vibes with this post Cult. Lol, good stuff.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> That's far from old


Pop culture is usually geared towards the teens and young adults. I’ve seen a ton of OC shit on Instagram and clearly people here thunk he doesn’t draw eyes on the product. The posts I’ve seen say otherwise.


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> Yep. If you want to see it in major form, see how Cena chased away many in the WWE (although he's provided many other business positives), only for him now to be an actual draw when he shows up. He draws to that reduced crowd.
> 
> 
> 
> It was spelt out to you pretty fucking clearly above. If you still can't get it, then you won't get it.
> 
> "Hey, you've won $500!"
> "Fucking sweet!"
> "That will cost you $600!"
> "Fucking sweet!"
> 
> I swear AEW apologists would be the easiest people in the world to work. Especially since they think they're above it.


Exactly what my point always is when it comes to Cena.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> OC has reached mainstream meme pages. There is potential for him to work and draw. Midgets drew people to boxing last night. You guys can’t tell us what the mainstream population want Cus you’re old as fuck and not in the target population - teenagers lmao


Oh true? Mainstream meme pages? Well in that case I take it all back.

I say again, the guys own CO-WORKERS were making fun of his push to his face because he's undeserving and a joke. If they're saying it and hardcore wrestling fans like us are split on the topic imagine what Bill the 25 year old carpenter who enjoys some wrestling on the weekend would be thinking about him.

Also, I thought AEW's target audience was 18-49? Now it's changed once again to teens and young adults? 18-25? God damn man, it changes every week when people try to put AEW over.


----------



## La Parka

Wheres the boxing midgets?


----------



## spiderguy252000

Chip Chipperson said:


> Oh true? Mainstream meme pages? Well in that case I take it all back.
> 
> I say again, the guys own CO-WORKERS were making fun of his push to his face because he's undeserving and a joke. If they're saying it and hardcore wrestling fans like us are split on the topic imagine what Bill the 25 year old carpenter who enjoys some wrestling on the weekend would be thinking about him.
> 
> Also, I thought AEW's target audience was 18-49? Now it's changed once again to teens and young adults? 18-25? God damn man, it changes every week when people try to put AEW over.



I see a couple of people using that podcast as an example of his Co-workers thinking his feud with Jericho is nonsense. If you listen to the entire episode it’s pretty clear that they are talking about how much the wrestling industry has EVOLVED in the past couple of years. They are saying that, who would had thought that a character like OC would be fighting someone of the caliber of Chris Jericho and, whether some people on here like it or not, it was a top billed and anticipated match that had a lot of fan support and was well received. You simply can not deny that OC is a loved and popular character and the fact that a character like that would be on the second to last match on a major PPV that costs $50 IS INDEED telling of how the wrestling business has evolved. Whether you agree with it or not is an entirely different subject.


----------



## spiderguy252000

optikk sucks said:


> Pop culture is usually geared towards the teens and young adults. I’ve seen a ton of OC shit on Instagram and clearly people here thunk he doesn’t draw eyes on the product. The posts I’ve seen say otherwise.


I also want to add that a couple of my friends that don’t watch know OC and ask me about him when AEW is brought up. I used to teach HS and my former students are college age now and they LOOOVE Orange Cassidy. I was with one who doesn’t watch recently and i showed him a clip of the PAC match and my former student could not stop laughing out loud. He loved how everyone in the audience was in on the joke and he said it was brilliant. OC is literally the definition of Zoomer ironic humor. They get it and find it hilarious.


----------



## One Shed

spiderguy252000 said:


> I also want to add that a couple of my friends that don’t watch know OC and ask me about him when AEW is brought up. I used to teach HS and my former students are college age now and they LOOOVE Orange Cassidy. I was with one who doesn’t watch recently and i showed him a clip of the PAC match and my former student could not stop laughing out loud. He loved how everyone in the audience was in on the joke and he said it was brilliant. OC is literally the definition of Zoomer ironic humor. They get it and find it hilarious.


I know for me the proper response to a wrestling main event is constant laughter...


----------



## spiderguy252000

Lheurch said:


> I know for me the proper response to a wrestling main event is constant laughter...


It didn’t main event


----------



## One Shed

spiderguy252000 said:


> It didn’t main event


Is has though.


----------



## spiderguy252000

Lheurch said:


> Is has though.


What main event? On a dynamite? I don’t think we should hold a tv main event to the same caliber as a PPV you pay $50 for. Even if he DID main event a PPV, he would probably play it more straight than he would other matches. His last Jericho match was played mostly straight because the stakes were high. I suspect that if he main evented a PPV that it would be the same


----------



## Klitschko

I hate OC, I really do, but its kind of pointless debating about OC with you guys, isn't it? The guy can start bringing in 500k extra viewers for his segments and people would still say "yea, but he pushed away twice as many fans". It's one of those things where his fans cant win even when they show actual proof that he is drawing more then a lot of others on the roster.


----------



## One Shed

spiderguy252000 said:


> What main event? On a dynamite? I don’t think we should hold a tv main event to the same caliber as a PPV you pay $50 for. Even if he DID main event a PPV, he would probably play it more straight than he would other matches. His last Jericho match was played mostly straight because the stakes were high. I suspect that if he main evented a PPV that it would be the same


The Mimosa Mayhem match was played pretty straight?


----------



## One Shed

Klitschko said:


> I hate OC, I really do, but its kind of pointless debating about OC with you guys, isn't it? The guy can start bringing in 500k extra viewers for his segments and people would still say "yea, but he pushed away twice as many fans". It's one of those things where his fans cant win even when they show actual proof that he is drawing more then a lot of others on the roster.


If it truly was a night and day difference of 500,000 and the rest of the show was flat, that would make a big difference. Of course I have been told only the demo matters, not total fans so whatever the equivalence is of that bump. But I already posted on here the June through August summer ratings for the OC Jericho stuff and it was nothing to be impressed with other than the segment that had Bischoff that had been leaked.


----------



## Klitschko

Lheurch said:


> If it truly was a night and day difference of 500,000 and the rest of the show was flat, that would make a big difference. Of course I have been told only the demo matters, not total fans so whatever the equivalence is of that bump. But I already posted on here the June through August summer ratings for the OC Jericho stuff and it was nothing to be impressed with other than the segment that had Bischoff that had been leaked.


So I dont really follow the break downs of the ratings much, but don't most of his fans usually say his segments get like 100k more fans? I mean if thats true, then thats a lot, but if he only brings in a little bit then who cares, and his fans should stop hyping him up like he is the next coming of Mark Henry.


----------



## One Shed

Klitschko said:


> So I dont really follow the break downs of the ratings much, but don't most of his fans usually say his segments get like 100k more fans? I mean if thats true, then thats a lot, but if he only brings in a little bit then who cares, and his fans should stop hyping him up like he is the next coming of Mark Henry.


It depends what argument they are going with that week. I will go back and pull the notes I made up until August later for the quarters, but it was generally middle of the road or poor other than the Bischoff segment. I stopped taking notes after how awful the second match was and the horror of a third gimmick match.


----------



## rbl85

Lheurch said:


> It depends what argument they are going with that week. I will go back and pull the notes I made up until August later for the quarters, but it was generally middle of the road or poor other than the Bischoff segment. I stopped taking notes after how awful the second match was and the horror of a third gimmick match.


OC is the one with the most +1M viewers segments in the last months


----------



## Cult03

rbl85 said:


> OC is the one with the most +1M viewers segments in the last months


Who else was in those segments?


----------



## Not Lying

Cult03 said:


> Who else was in those segments?


He got 1M views with Angelico


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Fair enough but you still sound angry to me
> 
> A rise in viewership of 108k sounds to me like a good thing! It's as simple as that
> 
> I'm not interested in the rest of your tangential waffle


Then I suggest you need to think more critically. Simple as that.



The Definition of Technician said:


> It's kind of ridiculous that these people who shit on OC's entire shtick have ZERO proof that what he's doing is "turning people off", yet, we HAVE proof he's drawing people in more than his peers, and yet they wana act like we're the crazy ones?
> Some people's entire shtick is pretending "things would be better if they did what I said" and just live off on that with ZERO proof.


There’s plenty of proof—we had a survey posted here this week, we have years of testimony from ex-fans, we have history and we have common sense. It’s the AEW apologist that has to put their head in the sand and push reality away. You hear the evidence and you just deny it.

By the way, 1 million people is NOT an amazing number. Especially not for wrestling. I don’t know why people act like this shit is popular when it is clearly niche of a niche.

People also forget, again, that ratings aren’t an exact science. This talk of him “spiking them” with a 100k is pretty silly.


----------



## Klitschko

The Wood said:


> Then I suggest you need to think more critically. Simple as that.
> 
> 
> 
> There’s plenty of proof—we had a survey posted here this week, we have years of testimony from ex-fans, we have history and we have common sense. It’s the AEW apologist that has to put their head in the sand and push reality away. You hear the evidence and you just deny it.
> 
> By the way, 1 million people is NOT an amazing number. Especially not for wrestling. I don’t know why people act like this shit is popular when it is clearly niche of a niche.
> 
> People also forget, again, that ratings aren’t an exact science. This talk of him “spiking them” with a 100k is pretty silly.


Pretty much everyone here knows that pro wrestling is a niche thing and that 1 million isn't the greatest thing ever. But what would you like the fans to do? Log on here daily and shit on whatever number they pull? 1 million is not a lot, thats true, but they are still one of the top shows on television each week with their 850k-1mill.

Even if they make every single change that you, and a few others would want them to make, they still won't get millions and millions of new fans over night. There is nothing bad with celebrating small victories when their ratings increase a little bit. Its just that there is no pleasing someone like you. I dont think you are a hater of AEW like some people call you, but i do think that you are just generally a negative person. They can increase their rating this week to 1.2 or 1.3 and you would still be negative about it and say there is nothing to celebrate. I'm sure you would feel the same way about RAW, Smackdown or another show if they increased their ratings little by little.

People seriously need to stop acting like they own a part of the company and that their show will get canceled if they are not hitting same massive numbers they were hitting 20 years ago.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Lheurch said:


> If it truly was a night and day difference of 500,000 and the rest of the show was flat, that would make a big difference. Of course I have been told only the demo matters, not total fans so whatever the equivalence is of that bump. But I already posted on here the June through August summer ratings for the OC Jericho stuff and it was nothing to be impressed with other than the segment that had Bischoff that had been leaked.


I keep showing it to these fans and they are not wanting to believe it. Because the pseudo wrestling media like OC and the hardcore geeks like him and AEW keep pushing him, they are somehow trying to make it believe in their minds that he's a rating champ when it's not been the case at all. That is why I was annoyed by the OC-Jericho feud because they kept doing it and putting it in main event while it was a rating disaster. And wasting Jericho's drawing power. AEW is essentially the biggest echo chamber promotion ever and I see this in interviews like these guys thinks they are doing these greatest things ever and they don't know when they are sucking. Like the recent interview with Trent and Chuck, they were glowing about the mom's van storyline. "yea we thought about this cause we kept seeing van arriving, that is when the idea came up...". Like a behind-the-scene of the writing of William Shakespear. lol Jericho is such a mark for himself, he's writing dialogue for other guys and thinks it's genius. 

I've watched the ratings for a while to watch the battle between NXT and AEW(I don't watch NXT personally) cause it was interesting to me and I was rooting for AEW and the first time the signs were there: AEW was winning for a while and as of June 17, Dynamite won barely and the only quarter that did not beat NXT was Jericho-OC. Then NXT won three weeks in a row with Jericho-OC/Best Friends in main event. Then Fyter Fest began with Great American Bash and Jericho-OC got slaughtered and what put AEW back in the game on a winning streak was Moxley. Then there was a segment where OC-Jericho got a good number but it was against abysmal opposition by NXT. What is weird though was the viewers that NXT lost did not switch to Jericho-OC even though they had quit NXT. This is telling that they were not interested in switching channel to the other promotion even if they thought NXT sucked.


----------



## Cult03

Wolf Mark said:


> I keep showing it to these fans and they are not wanting to believe it. Because the pseudo wrestling media like OC and the hardcore geeks like him and AEW keep pushing him, they are somehow trying to make it believe in their minds that he's a rating champ when it's not been the case at all. That is why I was annoyed by the OC-Jericho feud because they kept doing it and putting it in main event while it was a rating disaster. And wasting Jericho's drawing power. AEW is essentially the biggest echo chamber promotion ever and I see this in interviews like these guys thinks they are doing these greatest things ever and they don't know when they are sucking. Like the recent interview with Trent and Chuck, they were glowing about the mom's van storyline. "yea we thought about this cause we kept seeing van arriving, that is when the idea came up...". Like a behind-the-scene of the writing of William Shakespear. lol Jericho is such a mark for himself, he's writing dialogue for other guys and thinks it's genius.
> 
> I've watched the ratings for a while to watch the battle between NXT and AEW(I don't watch NXT personally) cause it was interesting to me and I was rooting for AEW and the first time the signs were there: AEW was winning for a while and as of June 17, Dynamite won barely and the only quarter that did not beat NXT was Jericho-OC. Then NXT won three weeks in a row with Jericho-OC/Best Friends in main event. Then Fyter Fest began with Great American Bash and Jericho-OC got slaughtered and what put AEW back in the game on a winning streak was Moxley. Then there was a segment where OC-Jericho got a good number but it was against abysmal opposition by NXT. What is weird though was the viewers that NXT lost did not switch to Jericho-OC even though they had quit NXT. This is telling that they were not interested in switching channel to the other promotion even if they thought NXT sucked.


AEW fans on here don't even like him. A lot of them have admitted that like our reactions to him


----------



## The Wood

Klitschko said:


> Pretty much everyone here knows that pro wrestling is a niche thing and that 1 million isn't the greatest thing ever. But what would you like the fans to do? Log on here daily and shit on whatever number they pull? 1 million is not a lot, thats true, but they are still one of the top shows on television each week with their 850k-1mill.
> 
> Even if they make every single change that you, and a few others would want them to make, they still won't get millions and millions of new fans over night. There is nothing bad with celebrating small victories when their ratings increase a little bit. Its just that there is no pleasing someone like you. I dont think you are a hater of AEW like some people call you, but i do think that you are just generally a negative person. They can increase their rating this week to 1.2 or 1.3 and you would still be negative about it and say there is nothing to celebrate. I'm sure you would feel the same way about RAW, Smackdown or another show if they increased their ratings little by little.
> 
> People seriously need to stop acting like they own a part of the company and that their show will get canceled if they are not hitting same massive numbers they were hitting 20 years ago.


Honestly? I'd like fans to stop applauding mediocrity and have better taste. I realise I can't project that onto anyone, but if you're asking what I want -- I want wrestling to be good and fans to not be so detrimental. It'd be nice to have standards again. 

No, they've probably blown their chances. You only get one chance to make a first impression. That's why people like me were criticising some of their more frivolous earlier moves -- they counted. Probably way more than any future good moves will. 

There is pleasing me. Don't put words into my mouth. I'm pleased by good content. If they put on content I liked, I'd praise them for that content. It's really that simple. But it's just easier for people to deny that people genuinely think this content is bad. And I'm generally regarded as a fairly positive person. Hell, when AEW was first announced, I was probably _the_ most positive person here. I talked about their potential endlessly, because I could see it and didn't let pessimism get in my way. I'm not positive about AEW _now_ because there is not much to be positive about, frankly. Positivism without cause is not always a virtue. 

I give a shit about the health of wrestling, because I am a _fan_. I want it to be as good as possible. Don't try and shame me into not caring. Both the WWE and AEW are doing their best at that themselves, as I haven't had an interest this low in something I am passionate about in _forever_. 

But hey, OC was watching by 1 million fucking idiots in the US who were probably using him to make themselves feel better about themselves, so who fucking cares, right? Wooo! Nothing matters!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> Honestly? I'd like fans to stop applauding mediocrity and have better taste. I realise I can't project that onto anyone, but if you're asking what I want -- I want wrestling to be good and fans to not be so detrimental. It'd be nice to have standards again.
> 
> No, they've probably blown their chances. You only get one chance to make a first impression. That's why people like me were criticising some of their more frivolous earlier moves -- they counted. Probably way more than any future good moves will.
> 
> There is pleasing me. Don't put words into my mouth. I'm pleased by good content. If they put on content I liked, I'd praise them for that content. It's really that simple. But it's just easier for people to deny that people genuinely think this content is bad. And I'm generally regarded as a fairly positive person. Hell, when AEW was first announced, I was probably _the_ most positive person here. I talked about their potential endlessly, because I could see it and didn't let pessimism get in my way. I'm not positive about AEW _now_ because there is not much to be positive about, frankly. Positivism without cause is not always a virtue.
> 
> I give a shit about the health of wrestling, because I am a _fan_. I want it to be as good as possible. Don't try and shame me into not caring. Both the WWE and AEW are doing their best at that themselves, as I haven't had an interest this low in something I am passionate about in _forever_.
> 
> But hey, OC was watching by 1 million fucking idiots in the US who were probably using him to make themselves feel better about themselves, so who fucking cares, right? Wooo! Nothing matters!


Stop being such a dusthead brother. Orange Cassidy is for the youngsters - the people AEW should be drawing (I’d say 13-30). Orange Cassidy draws. Fortunately or unfortunately depending on what side you lie on.

I’d say most of us grew up on the Atittude Era. We were all kids. I bet the old dust heads on the early internet boards were complaining back then as well.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> the people AEW should be drawing (I’d say 13-30). Orange Cassidy draws. Fortunately or unfortunately depending on what side you lie on.


Ah, the posts move again.

I turned 29 this year and think he sucks. inb4 I don't matter.


----------



## Cult03

Chip Chipperson said:


> Ah, the posts move again.
> 
> I turned 29 this year and think he sucks. inb4 I don't matter.


Me too!


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Cult03 said:


> Me too!


Ah true? Fellow 1991ian? Very nice.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> Ah, the posts move again.
> 
> I turned 29 this year and think he sucks. inb4 I don't matter.


I’m 30. I’m gonna watch wrestling regardless. Why? Because it’s a habit from teen days. You alienate e kids there’s no future in the product. WWE had the right idea but went the wrong way with it.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

No “post” has moved. The boomers are still not important to the product.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> No “post” has moved. The boomers are still not important to the product.


Yes but for months now it's been "18-49 is the only thing that matters!" to the point that Chris Jericho himself for like 2 weeks wouldn't shut up about it.

Now we have you saying it's 13-30.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yes but for months now it's been "18-49 is the only thing that matters!" to the point that Chris Jericho himself for like 2 weeks wouldn't shut up about it.
> 
> Now we have you saying it's 13-30.


is there a rating for 13-30 or is the demo table based on 18-49? 

In any case, my point is proven because 50+ is not important. we all still watch AEW even if we are fans of OC or not. If he draws the zoomers he’s doing his job. Same way Austin drew the millennials but with internet geeks complaining about him at the time. You’re still here even though you’re not a fan. Cornette still follows the product even though he hates it. Our habits are set in. The edgy teenagers are the ones who need to be drawn in. Show some zoomer humour (OC) mixed with some edge (Moxley and the main event) and you’ve got a good mix of both.


----------



## Greatsthegreats

optikk sucks said:


> No “post” has moved. The boomers are still not important to the product.


how many 60+ year olds are watching this show?


----------



## Erik.

optikk sucks said:


> Stop being such a dusthead brother. Orange Cassidy is for the youngsters - the people AEW should be drawing (I’d say 13-30). Orange Cassidy draws. Fortunately or unfortunately depending on what side you lie on.
> 
> I’d say most of us grew up on the Atittude Era. We were all kids. I bet the old dust heads on the early internet boards were complaining back then as well.


Oh trust me they were. 

Rock and Austin would regularly get shit on. You know, the two biggest stars of said era.


----------



## bdon

Erik. said:


> Oh trust me they were.
> 
> Rock and Austin would regularly get shit on. You know, the two biggest stars of said era.


I fucking hated Austin and most of that era. Bunch of over the top bullshit.

Rock and Mankind were alright, because they were the two most believable characters on said show.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Greatsthegreats said:


> how many 60+ year olds are watching this show?


not as many as NXT - and it should not be the case for NXT at all. HHH *needs* youngsters to watch the show, grow up watching it and become invested.


Erik. said:


> Oh trust me they were.
> 
> Rock and Austin would regularly get shit on. You know, the two biggest stars of said era.


i mean exactly. Orange Cassidy is a draw whether the old posters here want to believe or not. The product has evolved - for better or for worse. What worked 40 years ago won't necessarily work now. 

Culture has moved forward and the people who have issues with OC are the same people who will reminisce about the "good old times" when steroids were running rampant and wrestlers were getting CTE.

OC draws. Fact. The humour may not be for you or for me, but it works to get the social media tiktok generation watching.


----------



## Greatsthegreats

optikk sucks said:


> not as many as NXT - and it should not be the case for NXT at all. HHH *needs* youngsters to watch the show, grow up watching it and become invested.


well its nice to know that someone other than me is using the term Baby Boomers correctly


----------



## Wolf Mark

Chip Chipperson said:


> Ah, the posts move again.
> 
> I turned 29 this year and think he sucks. inb4 I don't matter.


Damn Millenial!


----------



## Wolf Mark

optikk sucks said:


> not as many as NXT - and it should not be the case for NXT at all. HHH *needs* youngsters to watch the show, grow up watching it and become invested.
> 
> i mean exactly. Orange Cassidy is a draw whether the old posters here want to believe or not. The product has evolved - for better or for worse. What worked 40 years ago won't necessarily work now.
> 
> Culture has moved forward and the people who have issues with OC are the same people who will reminisce about the "good old times" when steroids were running rampant and wrestlers were getting CTE.
> 
> OC draws. Fact. The humour may not be for you or for me, but it works to get the social media tiktok generation watching.


It's not a fact that he draws. This could be further from the truth. It's easy to check too. And OC is not any kind of Evolution of anything, it's a devolution. It's giving a push to low-rent Disco Inferno-type characters. 

And yea I'll take the steroid-filled 80s to humour bullshit like OC. It's not even in the same Universe. You are talking about when wrestling was doing 10 in ratings!!! 10! It's not demo. It's not viewers. It's pure real ratings too. 

OC is fine in mid card and that's about it. It's not because a company decide to push someone that it means that it's good or popular. Wrestling has never been lower right now and this type of shit won't help.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Wolf Mark said:


> It's not a fact that he draws. This could be further from the truth. It's easy to check too. And OC is not any kind of Evolution of anything, it's a devolution. It's giving a push to low-rent Disco Inferno-type characters.
> 
> And yea I'll take the steroid-filled 80s to humour bullshit like OC. It's not even in the same Universe. You are talking about when wrestling was doing 10 in ratings!!! 10! It's not demo. It's not viewers. It's pure real ratings too.
> 
> OC is fine in mid card and that's about it. It's not because a company decide to push someone that it means that it's good or popular. Wrestling has never been lower right now and this type of shit won't help.


OC is in the midcard. It’s the weirdos and anti-OC marks that think he should be world champion if he draws. My argument is that why should he become a world champion because he is a draw? You want everyone on Tv to be over and to be a draw, regardless of their place on the card. 

OC is for the youngsters. We are watching regardless. AEW need to have life-long fans. We arent gatekeepers for pro wrestling


----------



## 304418

So, any reason the AEW quarter hour demos weren't released this week?


----------



## rbl85

Verbatim17 said:


> So, any reason the AEW quarter hour demos weren't released this week?


It happen sometimes, we will have them with the quarters of this week.


----------



## 3venflow

Nice article on the growth and success of AEW. The comment by Cody about jumping off the cage is a little worrying...









AEW Continues to Grow One Year After Launch of ‘Dynamite’ on TNT


One year ago, All Elite Wrestling debuted its weekly series “Dynamite” on TNT. It marked the first time in years that a professional wrestling promotion other than WWE had aired on a major U.S. cab…




variety.com


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> OC is in the midcard. It’s the weirdos and anti-OC marks that think he should be world champion if he draws. My argument is that why should he become a world champion because he is a draw? You want everyone on Tv to be over and to be a draw, regardless of their place on the card.
> 
> OC is for the youngsters. We are watching regardless. AEW need to have life-long fans. We arent gatekeepers for pro wrestling


We just want to see AEW and their fans put their money where their mouth is. If he is good enough to go over someone like Jericho and if he has to be shoved down our throats then give him a run with the title and see what happens. It's a matter of believing he's good enough to be featured so heavily and therefore going all in on him, or stop trying to troll the adults who do watch and want a respectable company who doesn't piss in our pockets. 

If you believe so heavily in how necessary he is then why are you so vehemently against him having the title? Also, we are not watching regardless. 700k might be, but they'd also watch if they put on an actual good show too, right?


----------



## Prosper

Going with 890K this week.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> We just want to see AEW and their fans put their money where their mouth is. If he is good enough to go over someone like Jericho and if he has to be shoved down our throats then give him a run with the title and see what happens. It's a matter of believing he's good enough to be featured so heavily and therefore going all in on him, or stop trying to troll the adults who do watch and want a respectable company who doesn't piss in our pockets.
> 
> If you believe so heavily in how necessary he is then why are you so vehemently against him having the title? Also, we are not watching regardless. 700k might be, but they'd also watch if they put on an actual good show too, right?


This is what I don’t understand. If I had to watch Jericho, and the show with him, slide down to Orange Cassidy’s level, then why can’t _Orange Cassidy _lift the show up like Jericho did? Why must every story that involves Jericho and Cody take such a large emphasis?

We all know how I feel about Cody, but thank God he HASN’T done much stupid shit. Egomaniac that is determined to get himself over at the expense of the entire show and roster, but at least his stupid shit just annoys ME but doesn’t necessarily drag the show down a few notches.

As I’ve said since early November, if they booked everyone with as much time and energy as Jericho and Cody, the show would be in such a better place. And that isn’t even necessarily a knock on them, but it does speak to the fact that those two act as if the company exists for no other reason than them to write their autobiography.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

prosperwithdeen said:


> Going with 890K this week.


They went against the NBA Finals, NBA Playoffs hurt them last week and they did 833k.

Anything above 750k and a .3 is a win. I'll go with 770 and .30

They are going to get fucking slaughtered next week with all the competition.


----------



## Prosper

RelivingTheShadow said:


> They went against the NBA Finals, NBA Playoffs hurt them last week and they did 833k.
> 
> Anything above 750k and a .3 is a win. I'll go with 770 and .30
> 
> They are going to get fucking slaughtered next week with all the competition.


They have to go up against the presidential debate which may be rough. Game 4 of the NBA Finals is on Tuesday though so they should be safe there.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I predict 717k / .28 demo for last night. Next week probably around 400k and a .2 demo. I think it will be that bad for them going against Pence/Harris.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

prosperwithdeen said:


> They have to go up against the presidential debate which may be rough. Game 4 of the NBA Finals is on Tuesday though so they should be safe there.


Isn't the debate on a Thursday?


----------



## Prosper

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Isn't the debate on a Thursday?


No the 2nd debate is on Oct 7th, starts at 9pm though, midway through Dynamite.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

prosperwithdeen said:


> No the 2nd debate is on Oct 7th, starts at 9pm though, midway through Dynamite.


Dynamite would be smart to start an hour earlier next week. That shit is going to be a slaughter.


----------



## Prosper

TKO Wrestling said:


> Dynamite would be smart to start an hour earlier next week. That shit is going to be a slaughter.


Yeah it may get ugly for Dynamite. The election is in like 4 weeks. AEW is always something people can watch/stream after, but the debate is a must see live for most as I doubt there is anyone looking up debate replays. Its either you watch it live or you don't watch at all I would think.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

prosperwithdeen said:


> No the 2nd debate is on Oct 7th, starts at 9pm though, midway through Dynamite.


Oh, the one with the VPs, right, I don't think that'll do as monster of a number as this past week but yeah, it'll be big.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Oh, the one with the VPs, right, I don't think that'll do as monster of a number as this past week but yeah, it'll be big.


For sure. Love or hate him, Trump is a massive TV draw. Since he is apparently in financial trouble (just going with the tweets, I have no actual clue), Khan should shove $10 million Trumps way and let Hobbs destroy him on Dynamite.

You basically pay $10 million to create a megastar which is exactly what Hobbs would be if that happened.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

TKO Wrestling said:


> I predict 717k / .28 demo for last night. Next week probably around 400k and a .2 demo. I think it will be that bad for them going against Pence/Harris.


No way they drop to 400k lmao, Dog Collar match and Jericho celebration will keep them above 650k I think.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

RelivingTheShadow said:


> No way they drop to 400k lmao, Dog Collar match and Jericho celebration will keep them above 650k I think.


Sure hope so. But I believe that next week we get a view of what the ratings would have been like in the beginning had Mox & Jericho not been in AEW.


----------



## Prosper

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Oh, the one with the VPs, right, I don't think that'll do as monster of a number as this past week but yeah, it'll be big.


Yeah people are gonna want to see Kamala/Pence go at it too, especially after the disaster clown show the first debate was. Trump/Biden did 73 million viewers so Kamala/Pence will do at least 3/4 that I think. Pure entertainment but sad at the same time.

That plus NXT is gonna be tough.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

prosperwithdeen said:


> Yeah people are gonna want to see Kamala/Pence go at it too, especially after the disaster clown show the first debate was. Trump/Biden did 73 million viewers so Kamala/Pence will do at least 3/4 that I think. Pure entertainment but sad at the same time.
> 
> That plus NXT is gonna be tough.


Holy shit, I watched the debate live but I didn't realize it did 73 million viewers, that's absolutely insane.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I think WWE definitely wins next week. WWE NXTs core fanbase is a lot more interested in what Trump has to say than Pence. AEWs core fan base is a lot more interested in what Harris has to say than Pence. Disaster combo regardless of what WWE puts out on NXT next week.


----------



## Prosper

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Holy shit, I watched the debate live but I didn't realize it did 73 million viewers, that's absolutely insane.


Yeah pretty crazy, last year's Trump/Hilary debate did 84 million lol. These things draw heavily.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

AEW 866K, .33 in the demo, that's a fucking slam dunk with all the competition.

They had MLB Wildcard, NBA and the Southpark special doing big numbers as competition.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

800k


----------



## Alright_Mate

A solid rating again and slightly up from last week


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RelivingTheShadow said:


> AEW 866K, .33 in the demo, that's a fucking slam dunk with all the competition.
> 
> They had MLB Wildcard, NBA and the Southpark special doing big numbers as competition.


thats a massive W
NXT really needs to fuck off now


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> thats a massive W
> NXT really needs to fuck off now



So RAW going up in viewership against the biggest NFL game of the season and the Stanley Cup final is a massive W too right? Just making sure we keep the same energy here


----------



## Prosper

RelivingTheShadow said:


> AEW 866K, .33 in the demo, that's a fucking slam dunk with all the competition.
> 
> They had MLB Wildcard, NBA and the Southpark special doing big numbers as competition.


866K and .33 in the demo is pretty damn good considering all of that plus NXT. Its unfortunate that HHH just confirmed that NXT is staying on Wednesday.

The South Park pandemic special was last night? I wanted to see that lol.



RainmakerV2 said:


> So RAW going up in viewership against the biggest NFL game of the season and the Stanley Cup final is a massive W too right? Just making sure we keep the same energy here


RAW going up in cable viewers against the Ravens vs Chiefs game and the NHL final is a win too I gotta admit. They should have been slaughtered.


----------



## ShadowCounter

RainmakerV2 said:


> So RAW going up in viewership against the biggest NFL game of the season and the Stanley Cup final is a massive W too right? Just making sure we keep the same energy here


Of course. But it's not like WWE is a world–renowned product or anything.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RainmakerV2 said:


> So RAW going up in viewership against the biggest NFL game of the season and the Stanley Cup final is a massive W too right? Just making sure we keep the same energy here


Everyone said RAW was a great number, what a weird thing to bring up.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> So RAW going up in viewership against the biggest NFL game of the season and the Stanley Cup final is a massive W too right? Just making sure we keep the same energy here


Bro WHAT? 💀 

where am I saying that I don’t want RAW to win? Stop being such a sore mark


----------



## Erik.

Both promotions done well this week.

Shame they're not going to end up on separate nights. Id imagine if Raw and Smackdown went against eachother on the same night, neither would do a million either.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Look guys, I think it's time we buy into what myself, Cult and especially The Wood have been saying for months now.

There is about 1.5 million people or so that split and will watch wrestling on a Wednesday night no matter what with about 200,000 floaters. 866k is great for AEW and that's pretty much the amount of people who will tune in no matter what. That's the AEW hardcore audience.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> Bro WHAT? 💀
> 
> where am I saying that I don’t want RAW to win? Stop being such a sore mark



Because calling it a massive W is a massive overstatement. Its pretty well established pro wrestling is now extremely niche and the same 800K are gonna watch AEW as the same 1.5-2.0 million watch WWE every week regardless of what sports are on.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RainmakerV2 said:


> Because calling it a massive W is a massive overstatement. Its pretty well established pro wrestling is now extremely niche and the same 800K are gonna watch AEW as the same 1.5-2.0 million watch WWE every week regardless of what sports are on.


Yup. This is my point.

You could have the return of Jesus as he speaks live about an upcoming judgement day and those same 700-1 million AEW fans would watch AEW TV whilst the rest of the world is hearing Jesus out.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Chip Chipperson said:


> Look guys, I think it's time we buy into what myself, Cult and especially The Wood have been saying for months now.
> 
> There is about 1.5 million people or so that split and will watch wrestling on a Wednesday night no matter what with about 200,000 floaters. 866k is great for AEW and that's pretty much the amount of people who will tune in no matter what. That's the AEW hardcore audience.


Literally 2 months ago AEW was doing 700k for FyterFest and 770k FFTF special episodes, they've recovered to pre-pandemic levels. Now the real test is if they can grow beyond that in the next few months.

But recovering to pre-pandemic without a crowds is a big win, no other Wrestling show has yet to do that on a consistent basis.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1311758168553385984


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Good number better than I expected. I really thought 800K and .30 would have been a decent number and they NXT is just sad even with their viewership numbers aren't awful their demos are pitiful. Can't even draw a .2 WOW I mean they draw a good number for 50+ which amazes me that NXT diehards were watching during the Golden Era and the Attitude Era which are both much different than today. Next week will be interesting. Hopefully we get a better than expected number.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Decent rating. Interesting to see them staying in the mid 800s to mid 900s range now. Much better than April/May when they used to yoyo up and down significantly.



RelivingTheShadow said:


> Holy shit, I watched the debate live but I didn't realize it did 73 million viewers, that's absolutely insane.


It's misleading. The debate is shown on basically most of the major channels at same time so basically anyone that has their TV on is watching unless you actively avoid it. I'm sure if they put AEW or WWE on all the major channels at the same time. The ratings would at least treble...

But yes Trump is no doubt a draw. He achieved the highest Wrestlemania PPV buy in history for his hair vs hair match and ratings were high whenever he showed up on Raw. This was all before he even got into politics and got more hated/loved.

The vice presidential debate will have nowhere near as much interest as Trump is the draw. Always has been.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> Because calling it a massive W is a massive overstatement. Its pretty well established pro wrestling is now extremely niche and the same 800K are gonna watch AEW as the same 1.5-2.0 million watch WWE every week regardless of what sports are on.


ive always said raw is doing relatively well


----------



## rbl85

With a demo like that usually AEW would have been in the top 5 or not far no ?


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> With a demo like that usually AEW would have been in the top 5 or not far no ?


Yeah but with the MLB and the South Park special, it made it hard for that to happen this week


----------



## Klitschko

Solid rating.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow




----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RelivingTheShadow said:


>

Sports hurt these shows, history would indicate AEW more than NXT.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> AEW definitely shares more fans with NBA than NXT. Young crowds in both.
> 
> I feel like NXT shares their fans more with sports like NASCAR and shows like Dancing With The Stars


NBA barely has a young fanbase. The average age of an NBA fan is 42 years old. 










AVERAGE AGE OF MLB FAN IS 57: NBA'S IS 42! | Fast Philly Sports


By Sam Bush Major League Baseball is gearing up for a 60-game season in the wake of the pandemic. And there will be no fans in the stands, just to be



fastphillysports.com






AEW fans are 48 years old so AEW doesn't actually have a young fanbase. It's fanbase is old as well. It's "young" if you're comparing it to other wrestling companies.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250183328419975171


----------



## Prosper

Ozell Gray said:


> NBA barely has a young fanbase. The average age of an NBA fan is 42 years old.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AVERAGE AGE OF MLB FAN IS 57: NBA'S IS 42! | Fast Philly Sports
> 
> 
> By Sam Bush Major League Baseball is gearing up for a 60-game season in the wake of the pandemic. And there will be no fans in the stands, just to be
> 
> 
> 
> fastphillysports.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW fans are 48 years old so AEW doesn't actually have a young fanbase. It's fanbase is old as well. It's "young" if you're comparing it to other wrestling companies.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250183328419975171


Nah it’s just that the younger audience don’t have cable boxes. I would bet money that 95% of people who are under 40 on this forum and outside of it don’t watch Dynamite or NXT on cable tv. You’re crazy if you think there are only 50 year olds watching every week.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

prosperwithdeen said:


> Nah it’s just that the younger audience don’t have cable boxes. I would bet money that 95% of people who are under 40 on this forum and outside of it don’t watch Dynamite or NXT on cable tv. You’re crazy if you think there are only 50 year olds watching every week.


But doesn’t Dave say they count the streaming services also?


----------



## Ozell Gray

prosperwithdeen said:


> Nah it’s just that the younger audience don’t have cable boxes. I would bet money that 95% of people who are under 40 on this forum and outside of it don’t watch Dynamite or NXT on cable tv. You’re crazy if you think there are only 50 year olds watching every week.


50 year olds weren't mentioned anywhere in my comment. I showed that the AEW fanbase is 48 years old which isn't young like so many fans want to believe that AEW has this "young fanbase" when the fanbase itself is old. Granted 48 years old is still younger than the 58 year olds who watch NXT but old people watch Dynamite as well. Dynamite's viewers are old, I mean they're 48 years old. Thats not young by any stretch. 

The percentage of streamers is lower since most people still watch tv, BUT there are streamers who watch Dynamite but they're not as numerous as some like to believe.


----------



## CovidFan

Seems like a good week for wrestling with RAWs number and then AEW/NXT combining for 1.6 million. 

Can't believe people argue because they want one or the other to go out of business. They can both exist and alternatives are good thing for pro wrestling as a whole.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Stop being such a dusthead brother. Orange Cassidy is for the youngsters - the people AEW should be drawing (I’d say 13-30). Orange Cassidy draws. Fortunately or unfortunately depending on what side you lie on.
> 
> I’d say most of us grew up on the Atittude Era. We were all kids. I bet the old dust heads on the early internet boards were complaining back then as well.


1 million viewers is NOT drawing. Holy shit, can you please learn terminology and use it correctly? It's just so fucking annoying when people get this basic shit wrong. I also loathe the lazy "wrestling needs to get people when they are kids" argument I see bullshit social media "influencers" try and spread. No, this shit is worse and it's far less popular than it's ever been.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> 1 million viewers is NOT drawing. Holy shit, can you please learn terminology and use it correctly? It's just so fucking annoying when people get this basic shit wrong. I also loathe the lazy "wrestling needs to get people when they are kids" argument I see bullshit social media "influencers" try and spread. No, this shit is worse and it's far less popular than it's ever been.


1 million is drawing when AEWs average audience is 800k my guy. That’s 200k surplus. Stop being a dusthead.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> 1 million is drawing when AEWs average audience is 800k my guy. That’s 200k surplus. Stop being a dusthead.


Lol, "Well, we had three people here last week -- this week we've got FOUR! Must be a draw." Yes, I am the dusthead. You are still an apologist with increasingly little to cling onto. This project is uninspiring and has not generated anywhere near the interest expected or desired. Wrestling is colder than it has ever been. It's only going to get colder because of more bad content stretching the attention spans of a dwindling audience. You are now getting excited about 1 million fans, many of which are probably mocking the product or tuning in for bigger stars only to see how fat/washed up they've gotten.

There has been no trend of growth. There has been no revolution. There has been no indicator of progress. This thing is stagnant and it's not even fun to talk about how stagnant it is anymore. Onto the next thing. Bring on the next billionaire, please. We're done with this clown (as someone eloquently described him). 

Wrestling needs to evolve. ;-)


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> Lol, "Well, we had three people here last week -- this week we've got FOUR! Must be a draw." Yes, I am the dusthead. You are still an apologist with increasingly little to cling onto. This project is uninspiring and has not generated anywhere near the interest expected or desired. Wrestling is colder than it has ever been. It's only going to get colder because of more bad content stretching the attention spans of a dwindling audience. You are now getting excited about 1 million fans, many of which are probably mocking the product or tuning in for bigger stars only to see how fat/washed up they've gotten.
> 
> There has been no trend of growth. There has been no revolution. There has been no indicator of progress. This thing is stagnant and it's not even fun to talk about how stagnant it is anymore. Onto the next thing. Bring on the next billionaire, please. We're done with this clown (as someone eloquently described him).
> 
> Wrestling needs to evolve. ;-)


1 person is not the same as 200k.

Pro wrestling needs to evolve. Not be stuck in the past.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> Nah it’s just that the younger audience don’t have cable boxes. I would bet money that 95% of people who are under 40 on this forum and outside of it don’t watch Dynamite or NXT on cable tv. You’re crazy if you think there are only 50 year olds watching every week.


This is a really good point. I've just moved house and myself and the Mrs had a discussion about if we actually needed TV stations. I have a subscription for my sporting channels, two movie/TV show subscriptions with hundreds of hours of content from some of he greatest films/TV of all time and I can get all this for like 40-50 dollars a month as opposed to the 80 dollars a month it'd cost to get cable (Which isn't on demand mind you)

There is an occasional special or program that might get on Foxtel (Our cable system) but I know that on the 4-5 times a year that actually occurs I can simply seek it out online at a later date or if worst comes to worst make a call to my Grandma and have her record it for me (Even that seems super outdated though)

I don't know anyone in my age bracket that really watches TV anymore. I work with a ton of men in the 18-40 demographic and they'll ask you if you've seen the latest YouTuber/Viral Video/Netflix Series before mentioning TV. Only people I know actually watching TV are peoples parents and even then my mum is 62 and much prefers Netflix over TV.



optikk sucks said:


> 1 million is drawing when AEWs average audience is 800k my guy. That’s 200k surplus. Stop being a dusthead.


Look at it from this perspective (This is what I think Wood is getting at)

Your local independent draws 80 people and suddenly for a couple shows in a row they draw 100 before falling back to 75-80 again. Is that "drawing"? Yeah okay, technically they've drawn more people so I guess it is but wouldn't real true drawing be 200-300 people? Wouldn't jaw dropping drawing be 500-600 people coming out to every show because they just can't get enough?

Same with AEW, yeah okay they're drawing a million people but when WWE has tens of millions of people domestically and internationally watching their show a million people really is just a drop in the ocean. Especially if you consider Prosper's point above about streaming and the youth finding ways to watch on their laptops/phones as opposed to on TV.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Lol, "Well, we had three people here last week -- this week we've got FOUR! Must be a draw." Yes, I am the dusthead. You are still an apologist with increasingly little to cling onto. This project is uninspiring and has not generated anywhere near the interest expected or desired. Wrestling is colder than it has ever been. It's only going to get colder because of more bad content stretching the attention spans of a dwindling audience. You are now getting excited about 1 million fans, many of which are probably mocking the product or tuning in for bigger stars only to see how fat/washed up they've gotten.
> 
> There has been no trend of growth. There has been no revolution. There has been no indicator of progress. This thing is stagnant and it's not even fun to talk about how stagnant it is anymore. Onto the next thing. Bring on the next billionaire, please. We're done with this clown (as someone eloquently described him).
> 
> Wrestling needs to evolve. ;-)


Don't watch then


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yup. This is my point.
> 
> You could have the return of Jesus as he speaks live about an upcoming judgement day and those same 700-1 million AEW fans would watch AEW TV whilst the rest of the world is hearing Jesus out.


More chance of cm punk coming back


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> This is a really good point. I've just moved house and myself and the Mrs had a discussion about if we actually needed TV stations. I have a subscription for my sporting channels, two movie/TV show subscriptions with hundreds of hours of content from some of he greatest films/TV of all time and I can get all this for like 40-50 dollars a month as opposed to the 80 dollars a month it'd cost to get cable (Which isn't on demand mind you)
> 
> There is an occasional special or program that might get on Foxtel (Our cable system) but I know that on the 4-5 times a year that actually occurs I can simply seek it out online at a later date or if worst comes to worst make a call to my Grandma and have her record it for me (Even that seems super outdated though)
> 
> I don't know anyone in my age bracket that really watches TV anymore. I work with a ton of men in the 18-40 demographic and they'll ask you if you've seen the latest YouTuber/Viral Video/Netflix Series before mentioning TV. Only people I know actually watching TV are peoples parents and even then my mum is 62 and much prefers Netflix over TV.
> 
> 
> 
> Look at it from this perspective (This is what I think Wood is getting at)
> 
> Your local independent draws 80 people and suddenly for a couple shows in a row they draw 100 before falling back to 75-80 again. Is that "drawing"? Yeah okay, technically they've drawn more people so I guess it is but wouldn't real true drawing be 200-300 people? Wouldn't jaw dropping drawing be 500-600 people coming out to every show because they just can't get enough?
> 
> Same with AEW, yeah okay they're drawing a million people but when WWE has tens of millions of people domestically and internationally watching their show a million people really is just a drop in the ocean. Especially if you consider Prosper's point above about streaming and the youth finding ways to watch on their laptops/phones as opposed to on TV.


A bit too long for me to read but from scanning I can see you’re already comparing WWE to AEW. That’s a Dub for AEW. Imagine a new business being compared to a successful and established business in a monopoly
@tonykhan


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Rick Starks Vs. Darby Allin did over a million viewers for their quarter, AEW got absolutely killed when NBA started, but prior to it starting, it was averaging over 1 million.


----------



## 3venflow

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Rick Starks Vs. Darby Allin did over a million viewers for their quarter, AEW got absolutely killed when NBA started, but prior to it starting, it was averaging over 1 million.


Two great young stars, happy to hear this. Like MJF vs. Jungle Boy, this could be a PPV main event in the future.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Brodie/Cody angle by far did biggest 18-49 of the night.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

0.33

up in the key demo with stiff competition in the middle of a ppv cycle

a win in any book

anybody who does not see this has some..... interesting analytical “ability”


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Random thought, but NBA Finals Game 1 was down near 50% year over year, many think it's because of the inclusion of politics.

Agree, disagree?

Also, don't visit the NXT section much because it's so dead, but this Kyle O'reilly push is absolutely awesome, hope they can draw some numbers with it.


----------



## El Hammerstone

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Random thought, but NBA Finals Game 1 was down near 50% year over year, many think it's because of the inclusion of politics.
> 
> Agree, disagree?


Absolutely agree, at least based on countless testimonies I've seen and heard from people who haven't been watching.


----------



## thorn123

If nxt moves to Tuesday, will dynamite continually crack the million?


----------



## imthegame19

Q1: 1.026m / 469k (Allin vs. Starks)

Q2: 986k / 503k (Cody/Lee brawl, FTR promo)

Q3: 824k / 424k (FTR vs. SCU)

Q4: 836k / 431k (FTR vs. SCU)

Q5: 844k / 417k (Jericho vs. Kassidy, Miro segment)

Q6: 785k / 396k (Cassidy vs. 10, MJF/Inner Circle segment)

Q7: 806k / 399k (Baker vs. Red Velvet, Eddie Kingston promo)

Q8: 815k / 390k (Butcher vs. Moxley)


NBA finals preshow started at 730 and you can see dip in ratings then. With them getting even lower even the actual game started around 810-815 or so (which was end of quarter 5). Once NBA finals are over and if big MLB game isn't on a Wednesday. It will be interesting to see if AEW can do million viewers again up against NXT. There's no doubt been increase in ratings the last few months with momentum getting close to where it was pre pandemic again. Hopefully they can build on it. Especially going into next year with more fans possibly back in buildings.


----------



## imthegame19

DaveRA said:


> If nxt moves to Tuesday, will dynamite continually crack the million?


A lot of weeks yes. Still depends on other non wrestling competition there is for the night. My guess without NXT they would consistently do 900,000 to 1.1m viewers and 18 to 49 demos between .36 and .40 plus. At least at first and could grow to 1.2 or 1.3 for big shows or grow to one of those after a while.


WWE/USA aren't gonna want another wrestling show(only on a year) within 500,000 to 600,000 viewers and .7 or .8 in 18 to 49 of flagship WWE show. Especially since it would be easier for AEW to grow off those numbers without competition. 


Raw has been on tv for 27 years and USA is paying 260 million a year for. When TNT is playing 45 million for AEW. That would embarrassing for WWE and USA. So it's easy to see them both agreeing to sacrifice NXT for now.


----------



## Prized Fighter

The Starks/Allin number is surprisingly good. Not that they aren't good talents. How many times have they crossed 1M in a quarter with NXT competition? 

I am really interested to see what the numbers are on November 4th. That is the night after the US Presidential election, there won't be any real sports competition and it is the go home show before Full Gear. I wonder if AEW/NXT could hit 1.8M - 2M combined.


----------



## Jazminator

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Random thought, but NBA Finals Game 1 was down near 50% year over year, many think it's because of the inclusion of politics.
> 
> Agree, disagree?


I’m sure the overbearing political messaging has something to do with it. It’s a huge turnoff for me.

But another factor is that COVID made a mess of the season. It’s just not the same without home crowds.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

imthegame19 said:


> Q1: 1.026m / 469k (Allin vs. Starks)
> 
> Q2: 986k / 503k (Cody/Lee brawl, FTR promo)
> 
> Q3: 824k / 424k (FTR vs. SCU)
> 
> Q4: 836k / 431k (FTR vs. SCU)
> 
> Q5: 844k / 417k (Jericho vs. Kassidy, Miro segment)
> 
> Q6: 785k / 396k (Cassidy vs. 10, MJF/Inner Circle segment)
> 
> Q7: 806k / 399k (Baker vs. Red Velvet, Eddie Kingston promo)
> 
> Q8: 815k / 390k (Butcher vs. Moxley)
> 
> 
> NBA finals preshow started at 730 and you can see dip in ratings then. With them getting even lower even the actual game started around 810-815 or so (which was end of quarter 5). Once NBA finals are over and if big MLB game isn't on a Wednesday. It will be interesting to see if AEW can do million viewers again up against NXT. There's no doubt been increase in ratings the last few months with momentum getting close to where it was pre pandemic again. Hopefully they can build on it. Especially going into next year with more fans possibly back in buildings.


darby and starks are stars


----------



## Joe Gill

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Brodie/Cody angle by far did biggest 18-49 of the night.


not surprised at all... it was intense, aggressive alpha male shit.... not a bunch of dweebs doing flips or a comedy skit


----------



## Prosper

DaveRA said:


> If nxt moves to Tuesday, will dynamite continually crack the million?


Triple H unfortunately confirmed this week that they are staying on Wednesday.


imthegame19 said:


> Q1: 1.026m / 469k (Allin vs. Starks)
> 
> Q2: 986k / 503k (Cody/Lee brawl, FTR promo)
> 
> Q3: 824k / 424k (FTR vs. SCU)
> 
> Q4: 836k / 431k (FTR vs. SCU)
> 
> Q5: 844k / 417k (Jericho vs. Kassidy, Miro segment)
> 
> Q6: 785k / 396k (Cassidy vs. 10, MJF/Inner Circle segment)
> 
> Q7: 806k / 399k (Baker vs. Red Velvet, Eddie Kingston promo)
> 
> Q8: 815k / 390k (Butcher vs. Moxley)
> 
> 
> NBA finals preshow started at 730 and you can see dip in ratings then. With them getting even lower even the actual game started around 810-815 or so (which was end of quarter 5). Once NBA finals are over and if big MLB game isn't on a Wednesday. It will be interesting to see if AEW can do million viewers again up against NXT. There's no doubt been increase in ratings the last few months with momentum getting close to where it was pre pandemic again. Hopefully they can build on it. Especially going into next year with more fans possibly back in buildings.


Those are really good numbers, especially for Darby/Starks. The Cody/Brodie segment was fire, the dog collar match will probably do over a million viewers next week if the Vice President debate doesn’t rip them apart. The NBA finals butchered them this week though. Especially seeing as their biggest draw Moxley did so low during the game.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> darby and starks are stars


OC with the lowest rating of the night.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> OC with the lowest rating of the night.


Game started just before.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Trumps corona virus will put even more spotlight on next Wednesdays VP debate. I really expect sub 600k and sub .25 demo.


----------



## 304418

Good for AEW. But the fact that both AEW & NXT lost to Baseball Rain Delay shows that wrestling just isn’t relevant or resonating with anyone. And that we are past the Peak TV era and now in the Zombie TV era, since no one cares about what is being shown on tv anymore if Baseball Rain Delay can actually be listed in the ratings and place 3rd overall.



bdon said:


> OC with the lowest rating of the night.


That quarter also had an MJF segment, who has not been the draw everyone expects him to be. Too soon to know if its OC, MJF, or both.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I'm just curious as to what people consider would consider to be an acceptable viewership number to define success?

The time when AEW got 633k on 6/24, so many people said the company was dying, OC would push them to 500k, and that they were on the road to ultimate death. During that time the shows were consistently doing high 600k-700k

Now they are pulling mid-high 800k just 3 months later and some are still of the notion that the show sucks and has no potential to grow.

Do expect numbers to just boom overnight? It's going to take time to get to 1.1-1.2 million viewers on a consistent basis, or is that not even enough? Do we need to be doing NBA Playoff numbers for this thing to be considered "doing well"?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

bdon said:


> OC with the lowest rating of the night.


Moxley did the lowest rating of the night, better kill his push.


----------



## One Shed

Wait, insanely popular and audience builder OC had the lowest overall quarter and second lowest demo? How is this possible?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> OC with the lowest rating of the night.


Impossible. He's a big star.



RelivingTheShadow said:


> I'm just curious as to what people consider would consider to be an acceptable viewership number to define success?
> 
> The time when AEW got 633k on 6/24, so many people said the company was dying, OC would push them to 500k, and that they were on the road to ultimate death. During that time the shows were consistently doing high 600k-700k
> 
> Now they are pulling mid-high 800k just 3 months later and some are still of the notion that the show sucks and has no potential to grow.
> 
> Do expect numbers to just boom overnight? It's going to take time to get to 1.1-1.2 million viewers on a consistent basis, or is that not even enough? Do we need to be doing NBA Playoff numbers for this thing to be considered "doing well"?


I'd say 1.5m consistently would be enough for me personally to say "This is a good number to consistently be doing". My thought process is AEW has 700,000 or so fans that will watch every week no matter what and 200-300 thousand that will swap between AEW/NXT and go with whatever is best for the night.

AEW doesn't have any content that would appeal to anyone new though hence why it's hard to get excited for 800k. I see them doing around the million mark for a fairly long time but I could be wrong...


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'd say 1.5m consistently would be enough for me personally to say "This is a good number to consistently be doing". My thought process is AEW has 700,000 or so fans that will watch every week no matter what and 200-300 thousand that will swap between AEW/NXT and go with whatever is best for the night.
> 
> AEW doesn't have any content that would appeal to anyone new though hence why it's hard to get excited for 800k. I see them doing around the million mark for a fairly long time but I could be wrong...


Def think that's achievable, especially if they didn't have head to head competition. 

Anyway, it's more important to get a strong demo number, if they can get up to a .60 on cable regularly, that's huge.


----------



## Prosper

I don't know the fact that Darby/Starks, 2 younger guys who are mostly unknown, did 1 million with a high demo rating, followed by an even higher demo for the Cody/Brodie segment points to the possible reality of AEW consistently doing 1.2's relatively soon IMO. Even with NXT being there. NXT is unfortunately worsening by the week (because of Vince raping them of talent) and I can see all of those people jumping ship. We'll see what happens for the Anniversary show. Next week will be rough with the debate though, especially now that Trump has COVID.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I'm just curious as to what people consider would consider to be an acceptable viewership number to define success?
> 
> The time when AEW got 633k on 6/24, so many people said the company was dying, OC would push them to 500k, and that they were on the road to ultimate death. During that time the shows were consistently doing high 600k-700k
> 
> Now they are pulling mid-high 800k just 3 months later and some are still of the notion that the show sucks and has no potential to grow.
> 
> Do expect numbers to just boom overnight? It's going to take time to get to 1.1-1.2 million viewers on a consistent basis, or is that not even enough? Do we need to be doing NBA Playoff numbers for this thing to be considered "doing well"?


Here is the true answer

’for those that hate AEW, the Bucks, Kenny or Cody - no number will ever be enough’

Make peace with that statement and move on


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

prosperwithdeen said:


> I don't know the fact that Darby/Starks, 2 younger guys who are mostly unknown, did 1 million with a high demo rating, followed by an even higher demo for the Cody/Brodie segment points to the possible reality of AEW consistently doing 1.2's relatively soon IMO. Even with NXT being there. NXT is unfortunately worsening by the week (because of Vince raping them of talent) and I can see all of those people jumping ship. We'll see what happens for the Anniversary show. Next week will be rough with the debate though, especially now that Trump has COVID.


Yeah, but who cares about the week highs and lows, it's about consistently, and this is probably the most competition we are going to have all year, I mean that NBA game did a number on AEW's viewership and they still pulled a good number. The 633k number on 6/24 and people calling for the end of the company should be indicative of that.

We have two big things, potentially three that could spike viewership higher, competition dying down a bit/NXT moving nights(hard doubt on NXT moving), the return of crowds which will surely offer a good bump and a potential NJPW partnership(which is more of a 50/50).

Outside of that, hopefully they offer consistently good programming and their audience naturally rises too.


----------



## DammitChrist

I just love how the critics of Orange Cassidy come out of the woodwork here and pretend that 'few' people give a damn about him simply because of an instance where he's featured on a segment that struggled with viewers; but yet they're fucking silent whenever the rest of his segments hold up really well with the viewing audience.

You might as well kill Jon Moxley's push using their terrible logic then since he was featured in the main-event/closing segment that struggled compared to the earlier segments in the 1st hour (even though it's apparent Moxley has consistently managed to draw in many viewers for his segments).

Their segments clearly struggled because of other competition that was airing on TV shortly before Cassidy and Moxley even appeared on Dynamite.

The bitterness over Cassidy being one of the most over/popular acts on the show is honestly pathetic tbh.


----------



## La Parka

Lheurch said:


> Wait, insanely popular and audience builder OC had the lowest overall quarter and second lowest demo? How is this possible?


Its clearly a typo.


----------



## bdon

DammitChrist said:


> I just love how the critics of Orange Cassidy come out of the woodwork here and pretend that 'few' people give a damn about him simply because of an instance where he's featured on a segment that struggled with viewers; but yet they're fucking silent whenever the rest of his segments hold up really well with the viewing audience.
> 
> You might as well kill Jon Moxley's push using their terrible logic then since he was featured in the main-event/closing segment that struggled compared to the earlier segments in the 1st hour (even though it's apparent Moxley has consistently managed to draw in many viewers for his segments).
> 
> Their segments clearly struggled because of other competition that was airing on TV shortly before Cassidy and Moxley even appeared on Dynamite.
> 
> The bitterness over Cassidy being one of the most over/popular acts on the show is honestly pathetic tbh.


We’re not the ones who champion ratings as a reason for anything. Everyone sucking Orange Cassidy’s dick and championing his big ratings are the ones doing that. I simply pointed out That he struggled since I have to listen to his ratings every fucking week like that matters to me.

If he is so over and NOT a comedy goof, then why is he not a champion? He is capable of beating Jericho more than anyone in the company has. He took Pac to the limits. By any measure, Orange Cassidy should be getting a heavyweight title shot soon.

So, what is the goddamn excuse for him not being a champion!?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

DammitChrist said:


> I just love how the critics of Orange Cassidy come out of the woodwork here and pretend that 'few' people give a damn about him simply because of an instance where he's featured on a segment that struggled with viewers; but yet they're fucking silent whenever the rest of his segments hold up really well with the viewing audience.


I wish those people kept the same energy on 8/5 when MJF and Hangman respectively tanked viewership, or the fact that Moxley is in the lowest 18-49 rating of this week, or old school wrasslin in FTR consistently losing viewers(their celebration post All Out tanked).


----------



## bdon

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I wish those people kept the same energy on 8/5 when MJF and Hangman respectively tanked viewership, or the fact that Moxley is in the lowest 18-49 rating of this week, or old school wrasslin in FTR consistently losing viewers(their celebration post All Out tanked).


Make Orange Cassidy the Heavyweight Champ then. He does so well in ratings, then they need to make him the face of the company.

Stand by the goddamn ratings chest thumping that every Orange Cassidy fan has done for months on end.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

bdon said:


> So, what is the goddamn excuse for him not being a champion!?


Because the story doesn't call for that right now, some day it will, but not right now. Beating Chris Jericho is great, it got him to a new level, but Jericho wasn't even ranked in the top 5 when the matches happened so it doesn't make sense for him to get the title right now.

And for some people, winning the title does their character a detriment, it doesn't help them. Some guys are top guys that hold the title for a long time, and other guys can be guys that have more unique matches that aren't always meant for the top of the card.

Perfect example of this is The Fiend who was a dog shit champion, but absolutely has a spot on the card in a premiere role(and at some point can even be champion but they botched that).


----------



## TKO Wrestling

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I'm just curious as to what people consider would consider to be an acceptable viewership number to define success?
> 
> The time when AEW got 633k on 6/24, so many people said the company was dying, OC would push them to 500k, and that they were on the road to ultimate death. During that time the shows were consistently doing high 600k-700k
> 
> Now they are pulling mid-high 800k just 3 months later and some are still of the notion that the show sucks and has no potential to grow.
> 
> Do expect numbers to just boom overnight? It's going to take time to get to 1.1-1.2 million viewers on a consistent basis, or is that not even enough? Do we need to be doing NBA Playoff numbers for this thing to be considered "doing well"?


Consistent, weekly .4 or higher in the 18-49.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

TKO Wrestling said:


> Consistent, weekly .4 or higher in the 18-49.


Very realistic when crowds are back.

Given that Smackdown was doing .45s regularly pre-thunderdome, hitting a .40 on cable for TNT would be phenomenal.


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> Its clearly a typo.


It's clearly competition.


bdon said:


> We’re not the ones who champion ratings as a reason for anything. Everyone sucking Orange Cassidy’s dick and championing his big ratings are the ones doing that. I simply pointed out That he struggled since I have to listen to his ratings every fucking week like that matters to me.


Hey, good to know that you're so fucking petty and pissed off over other people (understandably) pointing out his overness  



> If he is so over and NOT a comedy goof, then why is he not a champion? He is capable of beating Jericho more than anyone in the company has. He took Pac to the limits. By any measure, Orange Cassidy should be getting a heavyweight title shot soon.


Jesus Christ, dude. 

AEW has MULTIPLE wrestlers on their roster who are over (from Cody Rhodes near the top of the card to Best Friends on midcard of the tag division). However, they can NOT all be champions at the SAME TIME because all of their respective divisions are preoccupied atm.

Jon Moxley is the ace on AEW atm, and it's going to stay that way for another few months. Kenny Omega is most likely going to be the one to beat him for the world title in order to finally redeem himself as a singles competitor. 

Hell, it's barely been a full year, and there's only been 2 AEW World Champions (Chris Jericho and Jon Moxley) so far in the company's short history. The likes of Adam Page, Chris Jericho, MJF, and Cody Rhodes will be heavily involved with the world title scene over the next couple of years. Plus, there's the likes of Pac, Eddie Kingston, Lance Archer, Brodie Lee, Darby Allin, Miro, Brian Cage, Ricky Starks, and possibly Sammy Guevara that will most likely be prominent in the world championship scene over the next 5 years leaving little room for Orange Cassidy to get a (lengthy) world title reign.

Brodie Lee is in the middle of a hot feud with Cody Rhodes atm, and Orange Cassidy already lost his title shot for the AEW championship last week; so he's going to need wait a few months at least before being able to challenge for that belt again.

FTR is staying as the AEW World Tag Champions for pretty much the rest of the year until the Young Bucks eventually beats them in early-2021 (most likely), which leaves little room for Best Friends (who's associated with Orange Cassidy) to hold some gold until then.

There are about a dozen popular/over acts on the show (at least), but NOT all of them are going to be champions right away. They can STILL be relevant as fan favorites on the show WITHOUT holding any championship, and that includes Orange Cassidy.

If anything, Cassidy is most likely able to win the TNT title or even the FTW title (which is RARELY defended or even spotlighted on the show), and he probably WILL win one of those championships eventually as long as he continues to find a way to stay over on Dynamite.

Overall, the reason why Cassidy isn't a champion now is because there's already plans that are going on for the current champions (and their respective divisions atm), and booking him to be a champion with a (lengthy) title run would most likely disrupt those storylines/feuds/angles (ESPECIALLY with the AEW World title scene for the rest of this year).



> So, what is the goddamn excuse for him not being a champion!?


I JUST explained it to you up above. Now folks like you can finally PISS OFF with the "if Cassidy is so over, then why can't be the fucking champion" card. 

He can STILL be OVER and RELEVANT (in the upper-midcard) on the show WITHOUT HOLDING A TITLE. How the fuck is that so hard to understand?


----------



## bdon

So, you believe he deserves more air time than Hangman Page, MJF, Omega, Cody, etc who he has consistently beat in the ratings? Just keep shoving him to the top, baby!!! Wooooo!!!!! Bigger draw than anyone not named Jericho and Moxley, look at the ratings!!!


----------



## bdon

His place on the card should be no higher than midcard. He’s a comedy act.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

goofy thoughts - "IF HES OVER MAKE HIM CHAMPION"

actually, you want everyone to be over. give him a decent place on the card where he can draw. unfortunately, he's not as big a draw as NBA, but he'll sure as hell draw against AEW's closest competitor.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> goofy thoughts - "IF HES OVER MAKE HIM CHAMPION"
> 
> actually, you want everyone to be over. give him a decent place on the card where he can draw. unfortunately, he's not as big a draw as NBA, but he'll sure as hell draw against AEW's closest competitor.


Then put him in more segments than anyone not named Moxley or Jericho. If he is such a draw, have those three In multiple segments and quit wasting TNT’s time with non-draws like Kenny Omega, Page, and Cody.


----------



## 3venflow

The best product is a product where everyone matters. I truly think AEW is working towards this. WWF Attitude was all about this, Russo tried to make every wrestler mean something.

Notice they are rotating wrestlers in the spotlight. They have limited TV time so it's necessary. Kenny Omega wasn't even on Dynamite and one of the Bucks appeared for a good twenty seconds or so.

But Best Friends vs. PnP was in the spotlight. Then they took a step back without disappearing (ie. Best Friends trying to get a title shot at FTR). And Darby vs. Ricky was a spotlight match.

Lower card guys like Isiah Kassidy get spotlight and credibility by giving Jericho an 11 minute match. Butcher was given a main event against Mox and despite his loss, looked like a monster. Next week, even TH2 look to be getting their chance to shine.

Like I said, with two hours a week, it's very difficult and some will inevitably be 'forgotten' for a while, but AEW is trying to create a product where from top to bottom, you give a shit about the guys.

Even Janela and Kiss got an awesome video package to hype their tag team.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Here is the true answer
> 
> ’for those that hate AEW, the Bucks, Kenny or Cody - no number will ever be enough’
> 
> Make peace with that statement and move on


I wish you'd stop these passive aggressive "they're just haters so disregard them" shit.

We all put over this weeks Dynamite, hell I think Lheurch said it was the best first hour they've done all year.

To read people suggesting we're biased haters when we were positive about this weeks show just shows the true agenda here which is that anyone who doesn't blindly praise is an asshole troll who should be banned.



bdon said:


> We’re not the ones who champion ratings as a reason for anything. Everyone sucking Orange Cassidy’s dick and championing his big ratings are the ones doing that. I simply pointed out That he struggled since I have to listen to his ratings every fucking week like that matters to me.
> 
> If he is so over and NOT a comedy goof, then why is he not a champion? He is capable of beating Jericho more than anyone in the company has. He took Pac to the limits. By any measure, Orange Cassidy should be getting a heavyweight title shot soon.
> 
> So, what is the goddamn excuse for him not being a champion!?


They don't want OC as champion because they know he's a midcard goof but they can't admit that because they argued for the past few months that it was smart to use OC in a main event program.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Then put him in more segments than anyone not named Moxley or Jericho. If he is such a draw, have those three In multiple segments and quit wasting TNT’s time with non-draws like Kenny Omega, Page, and Cody.


his match with Brodie drew 1 million.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

bdon said:


> So, you believe he deserves more air time than Hangman Page, MJF, Omega, Cody, etc who he has consistently beat in the ratings? Just keep shoving him to the top, baby!!! Wooooo!!!!! Bigger draw than anyone not named Jericho and Moxley, look at the ratings!!!


Dude, stop dramatizing it, you are coming across as a fucking goof.

No one said he should have more airtime than the aforementioned, I've actually been bitching about the lack of Omega, but OC should absolutely be a premiere act on the show.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> I wish you'd stop these passive aggressive "they're just haters so disregard them" shit.
> 
> We all put over this weeks Dynamite, hell I think Lheurch said it was the best first hour they've done all year.
> 
> To read people suggesting we're biased haters when we were positive about this weeks show just shows the true agenda here which is that anyone who doesn't blindly praise is an asshole troll who should be banned.
> 
> 
> 
> They don't want OC as champion *because they know he's a midcard goof but they can't admit that because they argued for the past few months that it was smart to use OC in a main event program.*


I just want them to admit that he isn’t a serious threat and should not have been in such high profile feuds. I enjoy Cassidy and find him entertaining IN THE UNDERCARD SCENE. Shoving him into the main event scene when you have guys like Jungle Boy, Darby, Sammy, MJF, Hangman, etc that could have used the rub of beating Jericho was just silly. Cassidy is “cool”, not because of a match or two against Jericho and Pac; he’s cool, because he is simply cool.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> I just want them to admit that he isn’t a serious threat and should not have been in such high profile feuds. I enjoy Cassidy and find him entertaining IN THE UNDERCARD SCENE. Shoving him into the main event scene when you have guys like Jungle Boy, Darby, Sammy, MJF, Hangman, etc that could have used the rub of beating Jericho was just silly. Cassidy is “cool”, not because of a match or two against Jericho and Pac; he’s cool, because he is simply cool.


But...he’s not in the main event.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

I swear sometimes I wonder what these Disney characters are watching. It’s definitely not AEW lmao.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> They don't want OC as champion because they know he's a midcard goof but they can't admit that because they argued for the past few months that it was smart to use OC in a main event program.


First of all, nobody (especially the fans who support Cassidy) is going to admit shit because your biased narrative simply isn’t true. There’s nothing for them to confess.

Second of all, Orange Cassidy having that top program with Chris Jericho (in a fun feud too btw) was a good idea because it established him as an upper-midcarder who’s capable of hanging in the ring with the main-eventers in singles competition.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> But...he’s not in the main event.


He was in multiple goddamn main event segments and second to last on fucking ppv.

Do y’all just lie and pretend this shit didn’t fucking happen, or are you really that fucking far in denial?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> He was in multiple goddamn main event segments and second to last on fucking ppv.


Doesn’t sound like the main event to me....

“main event”
“Second to last”

Holy fuck. Embarrassing lmao.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> Doesn’t sound like the main event to me....
> 
> “main event”
> “Second to last”
> 
> Holy fuck. Embarrassing lmao.


They didn’t have main event Dynamite segments multiple times? Second to last on PPV? Goddamn your reading comprehension is awful.


----------



## bdon

Here is where your delusional ass pretends you didn’t see where I said “main event SEGMENTS”.


----------



## bdon

Holy fuck. Embarrassing. Lmao


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> They didn’t have main event Dynamite segments multiple times? Second to last on PPV? Goddamn your reading comprehension is awful.


Tell me how “second to last” on the PPV is the equivalent of main event.

and you consider the final segment on a Dynamite to mean...main eventing? Jesus Christ. @ me if he ever wins the world title.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Here is where your delusional ass pretends you didn’t see where I said “main event SEGMENTS”.


Man you’re 36 years old acting like a 17 year old. Relax. Use your energy on something productive.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> Tell me how “second to last” on the PPV is the equivalent of main event.
> 
> and you consider the final segment on a Dynamite to mean...main eventing? Jesus Christ. @ me if he ever wins the world title.


You people said the same thing after he wrestled Pac, saying it wasn’t like he was facing Jericho.


----------



## El Hammerstone

optikk sucks said:


> Tell me how “second to last” on the PPV is the equivalent of main event.
> 
> and you consider the final segment on a Dynamite to mean...main eventing? Jesus Christ. @ me if he ever wins the world title.


I'd consider main eventing the second night of Fyter Fest to be pretty significant.


----------



## bdon

El Hammerstone said:


> I'd consider main eventing the second night of Fyter Fest to be pretty significant.


His ass would rather lie.

Or just be flat out fucking delusional.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

El Hammerstone said:


> I'd consider main eventing the second night of Fyter Fest to be pretty significant.


Didn’t that only happen because Moxley was self isolating? And wasn’t Moxley self isolating literally last minute so nothing could be done?


----------



## bdon

Didn’t Cassidy also wrestle in the second to last match at Revolution as well, meaning 2 out of the last 3 pay per views have had Cassidy acting as the non-World Title main event story?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

You guys are hilarious. anti-OC because he challenges your “gate keeping” and your perception of what pro-wrestling should be.

OC is over. He makes the company money through being consistently one of the best merch sellers in the company. He has helped draw in 1 million viewers.

Your perception of pro-wrestling is very outdated to be honest. Should stop worrying about what failed promoter Jim Cornette wants. He’s a failed promoter lol. Where’s Smokey mountain 🤣


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Didn’t Cassidy also wrestle in the second to last match at Revolution as well, meaning 2 out of the last 3 pay per views have had Cassidy acting as the non-World Title main event story?


“Second to last”
“Main event”

Brother pick one. You’re literally contradicting yourself.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> “Second to last”
> “Main event”
> 
> Brother pick one. You’re literally contradicting yourself.


I fucking said main event segments. Go back and read you, “brother”.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Didn’t Cassidy also wrestle in the *second to last* match at Revolution as well, meaning 2 out of the last 3 pay per views have had Cassidy acting as the non-World Title *main event* story?


Look at this boy embarrass himself 😂


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> Look at this boy embarrass himself 😂


How? Of course the World Title match main evented the PPV. However, Cassidy was deemed more important than Omega, Page, MJF, Cody, the Bucks, etc.


----------



## El Hammerstone

optikk sucks said:


> Didn’t that only happen because Moxley was self isolating? And wasn’t Moxley self isolating literally last minute so nothing could be done?


They had the choice to put anything else in that spot, but they didn't; the fact is that it still happened, it's a bit late to add stipulations now. The rematch between the two also main evented Dynamite weeks later, where OC would go over clean.


----------



## bdon

El Hammerstone said:


> They had the choice to put anything else in that spot, but they didn't; the fact is that it still happened, it's a bit late to add stipulations now. The rematch between the two also main evented Dynamite weeks later, where OC would go over clean.


He is a liar and/or delusional.


----------



## El Hammerstone

optikk sucks said:


> You guys are hilarious. anti-OC because he challenges your “gate keeping” and your perception of what pro-wrestling should be.


I honestly don't care enough to gatekeep at this point; why else would I advocate giving him a title? Also, I'm only going to say it once; I give zero shits about Cornette and what he wants.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> How? Of course the World Title match main evented the PPV. However, Cassidy was deemed more important than Omega, Page, MJF, Cody, the Bucks, etc.


You’re skunked bdon. Legit. You dizzy bruv. Matches are segmented and placed for various reasons, such as toilet breaks or whatever. There’s no such thing as “second to last” main event lmao.

There’s an opener and a main event. The placement in between is not important. You’d think you’ve been watching wrestling since yesterday or something.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

El Hammerstone said:


> They had the choice to put anything else in that spot, but they didn't; the fact is that it still happened, it's a bit late to add stipulations now. The rematch between the two also main evented Dynamite weeks later, where OC would go over clean.


OC is one of their homegrown talent and Jericho is happy being a jobber in the midcard. What’s the issue here? It’s not the main event, as much as bdon wants to bitch and whine like a baby.

Literally it’s like you guys don’t even watch Dynamite. You’re too stuck on WWE thinking, where the champion always closes the show. That’s not what AEW has done since day 1.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> OC is one of their homegrown talent and Jericho is happy being a jobber in the midcard. What’s the issue here? It’s not the main event, as much as bdon wants to bitch and whine like a baby.


Why did the main event scene of Dynamite have to get dragged down into the midcard where I have ROUTINELY said I don’t mind and often times enjoy Orange Cassidy?

Check my history, kid. I have always said I don’t mind him doing comic relief in the midcard.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

I feel like sometimes I’m discussing thing with people here who want WWE version 2, where you see the world champion at the beginning middle and end. Overexpose the handpicked champion and don’t give anybody else the opportunity to shine. Yawn.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Why did the main event scene of Dynamite have to get dragged down into the midcard where I have ROUTINELY said I don’t mind and often times enjoy Orange Cassidy?
> 
> Check my history, kid. I have always said I don’t mind him doing comic relief in the midcard.


So then why are you having your tantrum like a little girl. OCs placement is fine. He’s not in the main event. He’s clearly not been shown to be on the same level as Moxley. Again, @ me if we start seeing him face Moxley and the like. Look at the tier of talent he’s faced and beaten lately. Jericho’s name value is currently nothing - he’s facing fucking 👉🏻😝 next week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

....... people are still discussing if OC is over and deserves his spot on the card?

lolz


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> So then why are you having your tantrum like a little girl. OCs placement is fine. He’s not in the main event. He’s clearly not been shown to be on the same level as Moxley. Again, @ me if we start seeing him face Moxley and the like. Look at the tier of talent he’s faced and beaten lately. Jericho’s name value is currently nothing - he’s facing fucking 👉🏻😝 next week.


Because he main evented multiple Dynamite episodes. MULTIPLE. He and Jericho ate up more goddamn tv time than any other feud on the card. In allowing those two to main event Dynamite, it dragged the main event picture scene down to midcard level stuff, and the show was hurting for it.

Had Jericho and Cassidy stuck to 8-10 minutes in Quarter hour #2 or #3 and the like, then I don’t think ANY of us would have complained.

Perhaps the ire should be aimed at Jericho for not allowing himself to work in an actual midcard level segment when he decides to work with comic relief midcarders.

Either way, Orange Cassidy should have never been headlining multiple episodes of Dynamite like the star of the show when Page, Omega, Jungle Boy, MJF, and countless others had fuck all going on.


----------



## Cult03

Jericho isn't midcard. That's bullshit. He's one of only 2 main event calibre talents this company has. He was their champ and OC beat him. Therefore OC should be considered higher up the card. Unfortunately nobody can take him seriously enough to expect him to challenge for a title, so the entire feud with Chris Jericho is wasted. What was the use? Also he's not over in the wrestling world, he's over in AEW with their 700k fans who will cheer anything they do.


----------



## bdon

The main eventer and legendary, Chris Jericho, was dragged down to match midcarder Orange Cassidy, except they refused to place them in the midcard.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> Because he main evented multiple Dynamite episodes. MULTIPLE. He and Jericho ate up more goddamn tv time than any other feud on the card. In allowing those two to main event Dynamite, it dragged the main event picture scene down to midcard level stuff, and the show was hurting for it.
> 
> Had Jericho and Cassidy stuck to 8-10 minutes in Quarter hour #2 or #3 and the like, then I don’t think ANY of us would have complained.
> 
> Perhaps the ire should be aimed at Jericho for not allowing himself to work in an actual midcard level segment when he decides to work with comic relief midcarders.
> 
> Either way, Orange Cassidy should have never been headlining multiple episodes of Dynamite like the star of the show when Page, Omega, Jungle Boy, MJF, and countless others had fuck all going on.


He main evented because Moxley was stuck at home


----------



## DammitChrist

Oh, that’s bull-fucking-shit.

It doesn’t matter whether Cassidy faced Jericho in the opener, in the middle of the show, OR in the main-event.

You bitter/whiny Cassidy critics still would’ve find a way to moan about him being relevant on the show.

If anything, you would’ve bitched if Cassidy beat Jericho fairly quickly in 8-10 minutes by claiming that the Demi God is "buried."

Hell, if Jericho beat Cassidy (and won the feud in the end), you would’ve bitched about that lengthy storyline being a ‘waste’ of Jericho.

Nobody with a clue buys your ridiculous complaints.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Cassidy must be the most discussed ‘not-over’ guy in the history of wrestling

which is such a level of irony, its kinda hard to even comprehend


----------



## 3venflow

Well, in kayfabe terms, OC beating Jericho led to him challenging Brodie for the TNT belt. And losing because Brodie has been well pushed as one of the company's top heels.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Dammitchrist and optikk pretending they know. Time to drop some truths.



optikk sucks said:


> Tell me how “second to last” on the PPV is the equivalent of main event.
> 
> and you consider the final segment on a Dynamite to mean...main eventing? Jesus Christ. @ me if he ever wins the world title.


You have zero idea of what you're talking about.

Any promoter who knows what they're doing puts emphasis on the opening match, the match before intermission, the semi/preliminary main event and the main.

OC was the prelim main event on PPV. His match was the most hyped even over Mox and MJF. AEW legitimately spent tens of thousands of dollars on building this thing and you're legit going to pretend it's a random midcard match.

I personally put hotly anticipated matches on second to last almost always.



optikk sucks said:


> Your perception of pro-wrestling is very outdated to be honest. Should stop worrying about what failed promoter Jim Cornette wants. He’s a failed promoter lol. Where’s Smokey mountain 🤣


Again, you just don't know what you're talking about and need to be quiet to avoid looking silly.

Cornette was in management for every major wrestling organisation ever except AEW which he turned down. That alone proves how valuable he is but let's focus on his promoting career.

Smoky Mountain Wrestling - You've mentioned this one specifically which is dumb lol

Cornette takes a small regional promotion in a small regional market with regional television and allows himself and an entire staff/roster to make a living. He draws crowds as high as 5000 people becoming top five in the United States before shutting up shop due to a wrestling recession

Ohio Valley Wrestling - Cornette fed up with WWE asks for permission to help out at OVW which is granted.

He takes the promotion from having the worst TV in town and drawing 60 people to the talk of the town where he began selling out small arenas and played a part in helping some of WWE's top stars make it. Batista, Cena, Brock, Orton and even the beloved Cody all became what they are today from Corny's failed promotion




optikk sucks said:


> There’s an opener and a main event. The placement in between is not important. You’d think you’ve been watching wrestling since yesterday or something.


The arrogance when you genuinely have no clue.

I implement this and it's pretty standard everywhere.

Opener - Hot. Get crowd up. Face should usually win

Second - Cool things down. Heel should usually win preferably a guy you're trying to build up

Third - Women's match, secondary title match or if you need it a squash

Four - Usually pre intermission so it's another hot match

Intermission

Five - Usually a comedy or women's bout. Don't put a big match here because fans are usually still heading back to their seat

Six - Typically a semi main event match featuring stars and you want it hot but not so hot it overshadows the main

Seven - Main event so it's hot.

To pretend there is no importance in between the opener and main and to then shout that bdon doesn't know what he's talking about is cringe inducing.

You have no clue what you're talking about.


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Cassidy must be the most discussed ‘not-over’ guy in the history of wrestling
> 
> which is such a level of irony, its kinda hard to even comprehend


The guy still only has 182k Instagram followers and 123k on Twitter. The guy is small fish, mate. He has go away heat with most people. Let's keep in mind how not over Roman Reigns was, with millions of followers and millions of discussions about him. AEW super fans really have a warped sense of where AEW is perceived at the moment. Especially around the world.


----------



## DammitChrist

Cult03 said:


> The guy still only has 182k Instagram followers and 123k on Twitter. The guy is small fish, mate. He has go away heat with most people. Let's keep in mind how not over Roman Reigns was, with millions of followers and millions of discussions about him. AEW super fans really have a warped sense of where AEW is perceived at the moment. Especially around the world.


If Cassidy has go-away” heat with “most people,” then why did he consistently receive one of the loudest pops on the show by pretty much every other location around the country pre-pandemic? 

Why is Cassidy STILL one of the most popular/over acts on the roster even DURING the pandemic?

The reaching here (by you especially) is absolutely baffling here. Imagine making Orange Cassidy out to be like a Baron Corbin here (who actually DOES have go-away heat) when he’s FAR more popular, and that he’s actually a fan favorite too


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> If Cassidy has go-away” heat with “most people,” then why did he consistently receive one of the loudest pops on the show by pretty much every other location around the country pre-pandemic?
> 
> Why is Cassidy STILL one of the most popular/over acts on the roster even DURING the pandemic?
> 
> The reaching here (by you especially) is absolutely baffling here. Imagine making Orange Cassidy out to be like a Baron Corbin here (who actually DOES have go-away heat) when he’s FAR more popular, and that he’s actually a fan favorite too


Imagine thinking Orange Cassidy is some hugely over character when he has less followers than many WWE midcard acts


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> Imagine thinking Orange Cassidy is some hugely over character when he has less followers than many WWE midcard acts


Oh, you’re seriously going to ignore his consistently positive (crowd) reactions based on (SEVERAL) MONTHS of Dynamite episodes then?  

You’re really going to bring up the number of Twitter followers in order to “refute” his overness? 

If we use that crappy logic of yours, then Jon Moxley “isn’t” over at all since he doesn’t even seem to have a million Twitter followers; which is apparently less followers than WWE midcarders such as Sami Zayn, Dolph Ziggler, Cesaro, and Sheamus.

Of course, that’s utterly ridiculous to claim considering the fact that Moxley is DEFINITELY one of the most over guys on the show (arguably THE most popular babyface in the company atm).

Seriously, imagine using the number of fucking Twitter followers to dispute Orange Cassidy’s overness


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Dammitchrist and optikk pretending they know. Time to drop some truths.
> 
> 
> 
> You have zero idea of what you're talking about.
> 
> Any promoter who knows what they're doing puts emphasis on the opening match, the match before intermission, the semi/preliminary main event and the main.
> 
> OC was the prelim main event on PPV. His match was the most hyped even over Mox and MJF. AEW legitimately spent tens of thousands of dollars on building this thing and you're legit going to pretend it's a random midcard match.
> 
> I personally put hotly anticipated matches on second to last almost always.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, you just don't know what you're talking about and need to be quiet to avoid looking silly.
> 
> Cornette was in management for every major wrestling organisation ever except AEW which he turned down. That alone proves how valuable he is but let's focus on his promoting career.
> 
> Smoky Mountain Wrestling - You've mentioned this one specifically which is dumb lol
> 
> Cornette takes a small regional promotion in a small regional market with regional television and allows himself and an entire staff/roster to make a living. He draws crowds as high as 5000 people becoming top five in the United States before shutting up shop due to a wrestling recession
> 
> Ohio Valley Wrestling - Cornette fed up with WWE asks for permission to help out at OVW which is granted.
> 
> He takes the promotion from having the worst TV in town and drawing 60 people to the talk of the town where he began selling out small arenas and played a part in helping some of WWE's top stars make it. Batista, Cena, Brock, Orton and even the beloved Cody all became what they are today from Corny's failed promotion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The arrogance when you genuinely have no clue.
> 
> I implement this and it's pretty standard everywhere.
> 
> Opener - Hot. Get crowd up. Face should usually win
> 
> Second - Cool things down. Heel should usually win preferably a guy you're trying to build up
> 
> Third - Women's match, secondary title match or if you need it a squash
> 
> Four - Usually pre intermission so it's another hot match
> 
> Intermission
> 
> Five - Usually a comedy or women's bout. Don't put a big match here because fans are usually still heading back to their seat
> 
> Six - Typically a semi main event match featuring stars and you want it hot but not so hot it overshadows the main
> 
> Seven - Main event so it's hot.
> 
> To pretend there is no importance in between the opener and main and to then shout that bdon doesn't know what he's talking about is cringe inducing.
> 
> You have no clue what you're talking about.


Anyone pretending the OC/Jericho thing was not treated with Main Event level gloves and protection is a fucking liar and/or delusional.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Anyone pretending the OC/Jericho thing was not treated with Main Event level gloves and protection is a fucking liar and/or delusional.


it was a midcard feud. Got a lot of prominence on the show, sure. Dragged down the show at stages, sure. But it was a midcard feud.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> it was a midcard feud. Got a lot of prominence on the show, sure. Dragged down the show at stages, sure. But it was a midcard feud.


It main evented multiple segments of the weekly television show, bro.

And if you agree with the other two statements, then wtf have you been arguing us for the last 3 months? I have always said OC had a place on the show but did not belong in such prominent roles on said show.

Leave it for shit like qtr 2 or 3, maybe qtr 6 as a come down comic relief moment to a hot top of the hour quarter #5 segment. Use him like a Disco Inferno, who I know many find appalling these days but was genuinely a very over wrestler with the high school crowds who found him “cool”.

But don’t allow Jericho’s involvement in the feud dictate that such a comic-based feud, even with serious moments sprinkled throughout, headline your shows so often. It drags the entire show down into midcard status when there are plenty of other guys capable of carrying the main event segments.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> It main evented multiple segments of the weekly television show, bro.
> 
> And if you agree with the other two statements, then wtf have you been arguing us for the last 3 months? I have always said OC had a place on the show but did not belong in such prominent roles on said show.
> 
> Leave it for shit like qtr 2 or 3, maybe qtr 6 as a come down comic relief moment to a hot top of the hour quarter #5 segment. Use him like a Disco Inferno, who I know many find appalling these days but was genuinely a very over wrestler with the high school crowds who found him “cool”.
> 
> But don’t allow Jericho’s involvement in the feud dictate that such a comic-based feud, even with serious moments sprinkled throughout, headline your shows so often. It drags the entire show down into midcard status when there are plenty of other guys capable of carrying the main event segments.


I’ve always said OC is not championship material. It’s the anti-OC weirdos who argue that if he is a draw he should be a champion.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> I’ve always said OC is not championship material. It’s the anti-OC weirdos who argue that if he is a draw he should be a champion.


IMO he’ll make a fine TNT champ in about 6 months or a year

AEW champ..... eehhhhh.... i recon a lot will have to happen before we ever see that


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Interesting that Optikk had no response to me calling him out for his arrogance.




DammitChrist said:


> You’re really going to bring up the number of Twitter followers in order to “refute” his overness?


When I went to broadcasting school they openly said that social media is almost everything. Shitty radio host with a million followers on Twitter will get signed in this day and age before the most talented radio host on earth simply down to popularity.

It's the same reason why reality stars always end up on some regional radio station somewhere making 70-80k a year to be boring. They often have 100,000+ followers and the radio station thinks that'll lead to success which admittedly it sometimes does.

But with all due respect, yes I am going to bring up social media. If OC is this big star that millions of people love and enjoy he'd have a shit ton of twitter followers. Instead Drake Maverick has more followers than this big TV sensation.

Him getting cheered by the AEW loyal fanbase doesn't mean shit. They would cheer Omega taking a shit in the middle of the ring and shouting "WWE CREATIVE!".


----------



## fabi1982

Cult03 said:


> Jericho isn't midcard. That's bullshit. He's one of only 2 main event calibre talents this company has. He was their champ and OC beat him. Therefore OC should be considered higher up the card. Unfortunately nobody can take him seriously enough to expect him to challenge for a title, so the entire feud with Chris Jericho is wasted. What was the use? Also he's not over in the wrestling world, he's over in AEW with their 700k fans who will cheer anything they do.


For me thats the thing that makes me angry the most about all this OC/Jericho stuff. Like 3 weeks later, OC is fighting some DO goons and Jericho is a tag wrestler. What was the payoff besides OC put Jericho in OJ? Right the next Dynamite Jericho is a tag wrestler and OC just OCing around like usual. I dont see any difference to anything WWE is pissed on for by all the haters. Feud start, feud end, next feud start (especially with no connection to the previous one).


----------



## Mister Sinister

Everybody throwing shade at OC for the quarter hour rating, but I think the noncore tuned out because MJF had a segment after the OC match. MJF gets Xpac heat with audiences.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

MJF's state of the union address that everyone creamed their pants for bombed in the ratings too, guess it's time to stop pushing him too.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> I’ve always said OC is not championship material. It’s the anti-OC weirdos who argue that if he is a draw he should be a champion.


We have been trolling those who championed him as a “serious wrestler and not some comedy goof” due to his ratings. Nothing more. You can be a comedy goof and still be over.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> We have been trolling those who championed him as a “serious wrestler and not some comedy goof” due to his ratings. Nothing more. You can be a comedy goof and still be over.


So you’ve admitted to trolling?

@mods


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> So you’ve admitted to trolling?
> 
> @mods





optikk sucks said:


> So you’ve admitted to trolling?
> 
> @mods


What? In the same way you admitted to trolling just a month or so ago..?


----------



## bdon

If asking a rhetorical question is trolling, then color me guilty, buddy. I’ll take the ban happily knowing that we finally found some common ground on the OC issue, which is all I ever wanted.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Some people are just never going to give OC any credit, it's ok, you despise him and think he can't be a pushed act.

Some people disagree and it's one thing people are just going to have to agree to disagree on.


----------



## bdon

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Some people are just never going to give OC any credit, it's ok, you despise him and think he can't be a pushed act.
> 
> Some people disagree and it's one thing people are just going to have to agree to disagree on.


I know some hate OC’s very existence. I am not one of those. Go back and check my history. I have laughed when OC was randomly standing in the bathroom. I laughed when he walked to ringside and laid down to be like everyone else who had been knocked silly by a random dive. I even actually applauded the way they handled the match with Pac...

BUT...I also said that Pac was as far up the card as he needed to be working, because any further and the show will be hurt overall as the main event scene drags to Orange Cassidy’s level.

He absolutely has a place on the card. My son loves Orange Cassidy AND Luchasaurus, another “somewhat” comedy act. I don’t want to see him not on the show and taking away my son’s laughter, but like all comedy acts in the history of wrestling, leave Orange Cassidy in the mid to lower card as comic relief to break up the serious segments. Don’t have your comic relief headlining shows where the lasting image of your show is the funny guy, because that lasting image is what will stand out, suppressing your serious stuff.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

bdon said:


> He absolutely has a place on the card. My son loves Orange Cassidy AND Luchasaurus, another “somewhat” comedy act. I don’t want to see him not on the show and taking away my son’s laughter, but like all comedy acts in the history of wrestling, leave Orange Cassidy in the mid to lower card as comic relief to break up the serious segments. Don’t have your comic relief headlining shows where the lasting image of your show is the funny guy, because that lasting image is what will stand out, suppressing your serious stuff.


Tbf, I recall him main eventing a total of three Dynamites, the 6/24 angle, the 7/8 match and the 8/12 match.

6/24 and 7/8 wouldn't have even been the main event had it not been for the Moxley rona deal, so I think you are overplaying how much he has been headlining(unless I'm forgetting episodes, which I may be).

Nevertheless, I can understand that viewpoint, I'll disagree and say I feel like he's done relatively well in his position, drawn fairly well over the last 6 months (Vs. Jimmy Havoc, Vs. Rey Fenix, Jericho I beating NXT's biggest match ever, Jericho II, debate, brawl on go home show, Brodie etc.)

I don't think he should be champion, he had a fun feud with Jericho, who wasn't ranked in the top 5 so being champion off of that isn't necessary, hell he got his TNT title shot and lost.

When the story calls for it, he should win a title, but now is not the time, there are other stories that are playing out and inserting OC into Moxley/Archer/Kingston or Cody/Brodie just doesn't make sense and I don't understand why people are pretending like it does and calling for him to be in the title picture.

Wrestling is all about timing, now is not the time for a OC title run.


----------



## bdon

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Tbf, I recall him main eventing a total of three Dynamites, the 6/24 angle, the 7/8 match and the 8/12 match.
> 
> 6/24 and 7/8 wouldn't have even been the main event had it not been for the Moxley rona deal, so I think you are overplaying how much he has been headlining(unless I'm forgetting episodes, which I may be).
> 
> Nevertheless, I can understand that viewpoint, I'll disagree and say I feel like he's done relatively well in his position, drawn fairly well over the last 6 months (Vs. Jimmy Havoc, Vs. Rey Fenix, Jericho I beating NXT's biggest match ever, Jericho II, debate, brawl on go home show, Brodie etc.)
> 
> I don't think he should be champion, he had a fun feud with Jericho, who wasn't ranked in the top 5 so being champion off of that isn't necessary, hell he got his TNT title shot and lost.
> 
> When the story calls for it, he should win a title, but now is not the time, *there are other stories that are playing out and inserting OC into Moxley/Archer/Kingston or Cody/Brodie just doesn't make sense and I don't understand why people are pretending like it does and calling for him to be in the title picture.*
> 
> Wrestling is all about timing, now is not the time for a OC title run.


The point of calling him out as not being worthy of a title is that he was in one of the top 2 most prominently showcased stories over the last 6 months. Orange Cassidy being on television in a larger capacity than MJF, Omega, Page, Darby, Lance Archer, Jungle Boy, etc is the issue I had in the storyline.

Jericho worked an angle with a midcard comedy guy, albeit one that is over with the crowd, but the angle was not used like a midcard act. It was featured more than any other feud in the last 6 months. If you’re going to spend that much time on a single angle using up that much television time while not building anyone else, then if no one is questioning these things, the logical step is to say “his story actually IS more important than those names you have already mentioned”.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

bdon said:


> The point of calling him out as not being worthy of a title is that he was in one of the top 2 most prominently showcased stories over the last 6 months. Orange Cassidy being on television in a larger capacity than MJF, Omega, Page, Darby, Lance Archer, Jungle Boy, etc is the issue I had in the storyline.


Just because you are in a prominent role doesn't mean that you should be champion, we saw how botched that was with The Fiend just a little bit ago.

You can be prominently featured while not in the title scene. And I agree, there are people on the roster that deserve more TV time, namely Omega, but they got this tournament coming up so that should be remedied.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> What? In the same way you admitted to trolling just a month or so ago..?


I don’t troll


----------



## Jman55

bdon said:


> Didn’t Cassidy also wrestle in the second to last match at Revolution as well, meaning 2 out of the last 3 pay per views have had Cassidy acting as the non-World Title main event story?


Though I do agree that OC is being pushed further than his ceiling actually should be (the PAC match was perfectly fine imo but the Jericho series was way too much) This 1 particular point is a tad reachy as second to last doesn't always mean that it's the second biggest story (though this may be cause I'm used to WWE using it as a palette cleanser before a main event a lot)


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Cult03 said:


> The guy still only has 182k Instagram followers and 123k on Twitter.


I too enjoy picking and choosing certain social media metrics while ignoring others.

I guess the 8+ million views he has on the video Vs. PAC doesn't matter.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I too enjoy picking and choosing certain social media metrics while ignoring others.
> 
> I guess the 8+ million views he has on the video Vs. PAC doesn't matter.


OC is consistently in their top performing videos too


----------



## 3venflow

Stolen from Twitter (@BrandonThurston):

Here are the Q3 comparisons with IMPACT included (someone found their ratings).


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I too enjoy picking and choosing certain social media metrics while ignoring others.
> 
> I guess the 8+ million views he has on the video Vs. PAC doesn't matter.


Gee, 8 million views and only 150k or so have decided they're emotionally invested enough to follow him.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Chip Chipperson said:


> Gee, 8 million views and only 150k or so have decided they're emotionally invested enough to follow him.


Not everyone watching YT videos is on Twitter or using IG.

Stop being dense.


----------



## Cult03

DammitChrist said:


> If Cassidy has go-away” heat with “most people,” then why did he consistently receive one of the loudest pops on the show by pretty much every other location around the country pre-pandemic?
> 
> Why is Cassidy STILL one of the most popular/over acts on the roster even DURING the pandemic?
> 
> The reaching here (by you especially) is absolutely baffling here. Imagine making Orange Cassidy out to be like a Baron Corbin here (who actually DOES have go-away heat) when he’s FAR more popular, and that he’s actually a fan favorite too


Because the AEW crowd would cheer anything. Name one thing that has received a negative crowd reaction in AEW? 

He's not popular, hence his low social media numbers. There's a reason Jericho is referred to as the demo god and not OC. Jericho is the one that is over, not OC. Corbin has more Instagram followers than AEW has viewers, man. Come on..


----------



## Cult03

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I too enjoy picking and choosing certain social media metrics while ignoring others.
> 
> I guess the 8+ million views he has on the video Vs. PAC doesn't matter.


I watched that twice to check things out. Doesn't mean I enjoyed it at all. Baron Corbins battle royale has 10 million. Is King Corbin over?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Not everyone watching YT videos is on Twitter or using IG.
> 
> Stop being dense.


So less than 5% of that 9 million stay off social media despite the prior argument the other day from Optikk that Orange is for 13-25 year old people who practically live on social media.

Interesting how far people will go to defend the dancing clown


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Cult03 said:


> I watched that twice to check things out. Doesn't mean I enjoyed it at all. Baron Corbins battle royale has 10 million. Is King Corbin over?


No, using social media numbers is stupid as fuck. It doesn't matter, this has been proven many times.

Jesus fuck, we got people now using IG followers and forum page posts to help their narrative.

This is wild.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Cult03 said:


> I watched that twice to check things out. Doesn't mean I enjoyed it at all. Baron Corbins battle royale has 10 million. Is King Corbin over?


Remember Friday by Rebecca Black? Over 100 million hits so time to kick Metallica to the side and go with RB because she's over


----------



## Cult03

RelivingTheShadow said:


> No, using social media numbers is stupid as fuck. It doesn't matter, this has been proven many times.
> 
> Jesus fuck, we got people now using IG followers and forum page posts to help their narrative.
> 
> This is wild.


You can say that buy you're not saying why and that means your argument is invalid. Why do social media numbers not count when it comes to arguing how popular someone is?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RelivingTheShadow said:


> No, using social media numbers is stupid as fuck. It doesn't matter, this has been proven many times.
> 
> Jesus fuck, we got people now using IG followers and forum page posts to help their narrative.
> 
> This is wild.


Yes so wild to use social media as a gauge of how popular someone is when it's legitimately used by media companies in the recruitment process.

You've got it all figured out


----------



## Cult03

Also I'd like to point out that while OC VS Pac has 9.6 million views, it only has 170k likes and 2.3k comments. In fact I just added a new view to that whilst checking the numbers. Looks like there's some funny business at play/


----------



## DammitChrist

I can't believe some of you folks are seriously implying that someone with go-away heat such as Baron Corbin is "more over" than the likes of Jon Moxley, Cody Rhodes, Adam Page, Kenny Omega, Orange Cassidy, and Darby Allin because of more INSTAGRAM/TWITTER FOLLOWERS  

Sure, let's pretend that he's ever got good, consistent crowd reactions the way those popular guys on AEW did.

Fuck off :mj4


----------



## Cult03

Social media is a better indication of popularity than the cheers of the AEW crowd that will literally cheer anything. He simply isn't as popular as people would like to believe. Don't get me wrong, some people obviously like him but he sure as hell isn't "over" in the wrestling world. Especially if someone like Baron Corbin dwarfs him in social media numbers. Why aren't people following OC online if he's as ultra popular as people are saying?


----------



## One Shed

They obviously never had a plan on what to do with him after putting him in the top tier feud with Jericho. I am still laughing at people calling it a midcard feud when it involved their top star. And true, it did pull Jericho down instead of elevating a new guy because...honestly who is going to believe OC is a threat to anyone, ever? Just dumb all around.

As far as ratings go, I already posted the summer ratings ending with their second match and his segments with Jericho did middle of the road to bad with the exception of the one with Bischoff. I really stopped caring to look into it after that but seeing he did dead last overall and second to last in the demo last week is not surprising at all.

He has a gimmick that works in front of a local crowd of indy fans. It comes across as beyond dumb on TV. I get some people like him. I simply do not, and further believe having him looking competitive with actual stars drags the product down overall and limits growth. No, we could not have dared had a summer of Hangman, Kenny, Pac (I know, stuck in the UK), Cage, Archer, MJF getting built as a next major star by going over Jericho. We had to have this trash. Imagine Jericho being on the level he was at right after losing the title, then having Miro come in, not as the best man for yet another crop top wearing skinny geek, but as the monster he is and getting that shock win over Jericho. We could have had that. But nah, give it to the homeless looking guy walking the train tracks. Just horrible.

I am honestly just tired of thinking about or discussing someone as bad as Trashidy. I want to go back to just rolling my eyes when he comes out to play fight, and then move on to the next segment like before Jericho.


----------



## rbl85

Lheurch said:


> They obviously never had a plan on what to do with him after putting him in the top tier feud with Jericho. I am still laughing at people calling it a midcard feud when it involved their top star. And true, it did pull Jericho down instead of elevating a new guy because...honestly who is going to believe OC is a threat to anyone, ever? Just dumb all around.
> 
> As far as ratings go, I already posted the summer ratings ending with their second match and his segments with Jericho did middle of the road to bad with the exception of the one with Bischoff. I really stopped caring to look into it after that but seeing he did dead last overall and second to last in the demo last week is not surprising at all.
> 
> He has a gimmick that works in front of a local crowd of indy fans. It comes across as beyond dumb on TV. I get some people like him. I simply do not, and further believe having him looking competitive with actual stars drags the product down overall and limits growth. No, we could not have dared had a summer of Hangman, Kenny, Pac (I know, stuck in the UK), Cage, Archer, MJF getting built as a next major star by going over Jericho. We had to have this trash. Imagine Jericho being on the level he was at right after losing the title, then having Miro come in, not as the best man for yet another crop top wearing skinny geek, but as the monster he is and getting that shock win over Jericho. We could have had that. But nah, give it to the homeless looking guy walking the train tracks. Just horrible.
> 
> I am honestly just tired of thinking about or discussing someone as bad as Trashidy. I want to go back to just rolling my eyes when he comes out to play fight, and then move on to the next segment like before Jericho.



OC probably have lately the most segments over 1M


----------



## DammitChrist

Lheurch said:


> They obviously never had a plan on what to do with him after putting him in the top tier feud with Jericho. I am still laughing at people calling it a midcard feud when it involved their top star. And true, it did pull Jericho down instead of elevating a new guy because...honestly who is going to believe OC is a threat to anyone, ever? Just dumb all around.
> 
> As far as ratings go, I already posted the summer ratings ending with their second match and his segments with Jericho did middle of the road to bad with the exception of the one with Bischoff. I really stopped caring to look into it after that but seeing he did dead last overall and second to last in the demo last week is not surprising at all.
> 
> He has a gimmick that works in front of a local crowd of indy fans. It comes across as beyond dumb on TV. I get some people like him. I simply do not, and further believe having him looking competitive with actual stars drags the product down overall and limits growth. No, we could not have dared had a summer of Hangman, Kenny, Pac (I know, stuck in the UK), Cage, Archer, MJF getting built as a next major star by going over Jericho. We had to have this trash. Imagine Jericho being on the level he was at right after losing the title, then having Miro come in, not as the best man for yet another crop top wearing skinny geek, but as the monster he is and getting that shock win over Jericho. We could have had that. But nah, give it to the homeless looking guy walking the train tracks. Just horrible.
> 
> I am honestly just tired of thinking about or discussing someone as bad as Trashidy. I want to go back to just rolling my eyes when he comes out to play fight, and then move on to the next segment like before Jericho.


Nah, it’s really your ridiculous takes that are trash.

Dude, you’re getting pissed off throwing a rant about Orange Cassidy getting a prominent spot on the show instead of being patient about Kenny Omega, Adam Page, MJF, Lance Archer, Miro, and Brian Cage getting pushed more in the future (who will definitely get their big moments eventually; except maybe Cage). You’re even resorting to giving a talented fan favorite a shitty nickname too, and you’re pretending that anything to do with him is “horrible.”

Honestly, I’m glad that Cassidy being prominently featured on the show makes you so angry. Hey, keep rolling your eyes and getting tired all you want. Someone as good as him isn’t going anywhere (thankfully).

Cassidy is a fan favorite who’s one of the most popular acts in the (upper-)midcard on the show, and he should be pushed as such


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, it’s really your ridiculous takes that are trash.
> 
> Dude, you’re getting pissed off throwing a rant about Orange Cassidy getting a prominent spot on the show instead of being patient about Kenny Omega, Adam Page, MJF, Lance Archer, Miro, and Brian Cage getting pushed more in the future (who will definitely get their big moments eventually; except maybe Cage). You’re even resorting to giving a talented fan favorite a shitty nickname too, and you’re pretending that anything to do with him is “horrible.”
> 
> Honestly, I’m glad that Cassidy being prominently featured on the show makes you so angry. Hey, keep rolling your eyes and getting tired all you want. Someone as good as him isn’t going anywhere (thankfully).
> 
> Cassidy is a fan favorite who’s one of the most popular acts in the (upper-)midcard on the show, and he should be pushed as such


Here is how it seems to work on here. I criticize a character on a show and then you criticize me personally. I enjoy your superstars ratings threads, but you gave OC, a character that has spoken multiple words on the show ONCE ever an 8/10. Look at the historical averages in your own threads and see who that puts him above. Someone who has spoken ONCE. Even if you are a fan of his, which you obviously are, you cannot justify an 8/10 for him on the mic. It is an insult to the entire idea of mic skills to rate him so highly. OC makes Brock Lesnar look like Ric Flair on the mic. Jesus Christ dude.

I am not really angry at this point, just laughing at all the silliness and not in the way they intend.

My point with Jericho is likely he signed a three year deal which means he is about halfway done. He is the ONE name AEW has that your lapsed fans and old casuals would know. They were able to use him to put Mox over huge and that was great. But then you use that star to actually make another new star. Not drag him down to sewer level. The summer booking of Jericho is inexcusable.

I am not pretending he is horrible, he is horrible. He is not some 20 year old green kid, he is 36 and beyond sloppy. His second match with Jericho was embarrassing. He has no mic skills. He looks about as intimidating as the bum walking the train tracks. Sure, he might lash out if you cornered him, but just about any average guy could take him out with ease.

It is funny to hear you say that you are happy at fans being made angry. What kind of sadist are you to derive pleasure from a show making its own fans annoyed? It is honestly really, really weird. You seem to be saying you would be happy if a company fails or stagnates as long as the guy you liked was making enough people angry. What a weird ass point of view.

I have no doubt there are characters I like in wrestling that you hate. And guess what, that is OK. I had someone on here tell me they did not really think Rock or Austin were that good but thought OC and John Silver were top stars. A completely parallel universe take to me personally, but that is their opinion.

I absolutely hate John Cena. He drove me and millions of others away from watching wrestling for years. But if someone posts a thread liking Cena, I am going to attack that position, NOT the poster personally. Some people respond on here when we call out OC for the indy trash he is like we just insulted your mothers. Calm down, he is just a crappy character on a show most of us want less crappy characters on. And just like Cena, I am sure OC is a decently swell guy as a human being. I would never insult him as a person unless he did horrible things. I just hate his character. And to hear that he was hired on purpose to spit in the face of wrestling drives the point home more.

So yeah, I am going to give him a nick name. That seems to be a bit of a common thing in wrestling, no? Yawn Cena has been a thing for well over a decade. From now on this clown is going to be Garbage Trashidy. And if you do not like that, great. Keep enjoying him. But you really need to stop taking all this so personally and so do several others here. We are allowed to like the product overall but have criticisms on some of its elements. If we had to like it all, it would just be a new religion, no?


----------



## Cult03

Lheurch said:


> Here is how it seems to work on here. I criticize a character on a show and then you criticize me personally. I enjoy your superstars ratings threads, but you gave OC, a character that has spoken multiple words on the show ONCE ever an 8/10. Look at the historical averages in your own threads and see who that puts him above. Someone who has spoken ONCE. Even if you are a fan of his, which you obviously are, you cannot justify an 8/10 for him on the mic. It is an insult to the entire idea of mic skills to rate him so highly. OC makes Brock Lesnar look like Ric Flair on the mic. Jesus Christ dude.
> 
> I am not really angry at this point, just laughing at all the silliness and not in the way they intend.
> 
> My point with Jericho is likely he signed a three year deal which means he is about halfway done. He is the ONE name AEW has that your lapsed fans and old casuals would know. They were able to use him to put Mox over huge and that was great. But then you use that star to actually make another new star. Not drag him down to sewer level. The summer booking of Jericho is inexcusable.
> 
> I am not pretending he is horrible, he is horrible. He is not some 20 year old green kid, he is 36 and beyond sloppy. His second match with Jericho was embarrassing. He has no mic skills. He looks about as intimidating as the bum walking the train tracks. Sure, he might lash out if you cornered him, but just about any average guy could take him out with ease.
> 
> It is funny to hear you say that you are happy at fans being made angry. What kind of sadist are you to derive pleasure from a show making its own fans annoyed? It is honestly really, really weird. You seem to be saying you would be happy if a company fails or stagnates as long as the guy you liked was making enough people angry. What a weird ass point of view.
> 
> I have no doubt there are characters I like in wrestling that you hate. And guess what, that is OK. I had someone on here tell me they did not really think Rock or Austin were that good but thought OC and John Silver were top stars. A completely parallel universe take to me personally, but that is their opinion.
> 
> I absolutely hate John Cena. He drove me and millions of others away from watching wrestling for years. But if someone posts a thread liking Cena, I am going to attack that position, NOT the poster personally. Some people respond on here when we call out OC for the indy trash he is like we just insulted your mothers. Calm down, he is just a crappy character on a show most of us want less crappy characters on. And just like Cena, I am sure OC is a decently swell guy as a human being. I would never insult him as a person unless he did horrible things. I just hate his character. And to hear that he was hired on purpose to spit in the face of wrestling drives the point home more.
> 
> So yeah, I am going to give him a nick name. That seems to be a bit of a common thing in wrestling, no? Yawn Cena has been a thing for well over a decade. From now on this clown is going to be Garbage Trashidy. And if you do not like that, great. Keep enjoying him. But you really need to stop taking all this so personally and so do several others here. We are allowed to like the product overall but have criticisms on some of its elements. If we had to like it all, it would just be a new religion, no?


Amazing


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> Amazing


I think we just found the next CM Punk with that pipe bomb promo.

YOU TELL EM, LHEURCH!!!


----------



## bdon

On second thought, that might be a remake to Tupac’s “Hit En Up”. I could FEEL the anger and vitriol in that post.


----------



## DammitChrist

Cult03 said:


> Amazing


Wow, you're easily impressed :mj4



bdon said:


> I think we just found the next CM Punk with that pipe bomb promo.
> 
> YOU TELL EM, LHEURCH!!!


You call THAT a "pipe bomb?"  

I've seen (far) better fiery posts/rants from @Godway.


----------



## Not Lying

Probably over half the posts in this thread, there's people discussing OC.

He's like Roman Reigns a few years ago for sure, many hate him, many fans, big youtube numbers, except OC is over with the live crowd, his act work 1000x more with a crowd, and it's ridiculous to call the OC/Y2J feud "useless" when we know what we know about AEW's long-term booking and call-backs.

If OC wasn't one of the most popular wrestlers in AEW, they wouldn't have shoe-horned him last min at Revolution. Feuding with Jericho did elevate him more, he's had a number of 1M views segment including vs *Angelico* FFS.

And Finally, one EXTREMELY stupid thing I saw being thrown here by trolls, is demanding him to be world champion now like pathetic dorks trying prove a point.
You need to go back and watch *a lot* of wrestling where over mid-card acts feud with main eventers but don't immediately become champions after that.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, it’s really your ridiculous takes that are trash.
> 
> Dude, you’re getting pissed off throwing a rant about Orange Cassidy getting a prominent spot on the show instead of being patient about Kenny Omega, Adam Page, MJF, Lance Archer, Miro, and Brian Cage getting pushed more in the future (who will definitely get their big moments eventually; except maybe Cage). You’re even resorting to giving a talented fan favorite a shitty nickname too, and you’re pretending that anything to do with him is “horrible.”
> 
> Honestly, I’m glad that Cassidy being prominently featured on the show makes you so angry. Hey, keep rolling your eyes and getting tired all you want. Someone as good as him isn’t going anywhere (thankfully).
> 
> Cassidy is a fan favorite who’s one of the most popular acts in the (upper-)midcard on the show, and he should be pushed as such


Lheuch has pretty much shared the opinion I would've shared but I wanted to make comment on the whole being patient with Omega, Page, MJF, Archer, Miro and Cage.

Do you think maybe it's hard to be patient with these characters when they've been ruined? All but Page have been made to look like idiot goofs

Brian Cage and Lance Archer are both fodder in AEW's incredibly predictable underdog champion vs monster heel stories. 

Kenny went from being the hottest free agent in the world and considered by some to be the greatest wrestler in the world (And to some the best ever) to fucking around with Michael Nakzawa on TV, having competitive matches with jobbers and being made fun of by JR for the way he dresses.

MJF was made to look stupid in his feud with Moxley. A feud in which Moxley dominated and got the better of MJF at almost every turn. MJF lost and instead of getting his revenge and kicking the shit out of Mox he's now in some dumb "Will he won't he?" angle with The Inner Circle (Who have also been made to look goofy as fuck)

Miro potentially is up there as the worst to date. You sign this massive 300 pound man who has an awesome physique, a big fan following, is known to the casual audience and every segment he's involved in is dumb comedy bullshit. Lets have competitive matches with Janela and Kiss, lets associate with Kip, lets hang out with random niche celebrities, lets completely break down this character for a few jokes.

Awful.



Lheurch said:


> Here is how it seems to work on here. I criticize a character on a show and then you criticize me personally. I enjoy your superstars ratings threads, but you gave OC, a character that has spoken multiple words on the show ONCE ever an 8/10. Look at the historical averages in your own threads and see who that puts him above. Someone who has spoken ONCE. Even if you are a fan of his, which you obviously are, you cannot justify an 8/10 for him on the mic. It is an insult to the entire idea of mic skills to rate him so highly. OC makes Brock Lesnar look like Ric Flair on the mic. Jesus Christ dude.


Yeah, old mate lashed out at me in one of his ratings threads because I said Cassidy was garbage. He has no chill.

Just a fun part of today's thread, you're right he and others voted OC an 8/10 on microphone ability for that weird overacted climate change promo. Here are a few people that OC is better on the mic than (According to DammitChrist's thread):

Randy Orton, Adam Page, Cody Rhodes, Seth Rollins, Dolph Ziggler, Roman Reigns, Sammy Guevara, Matt Hardy, Trish Stratus, Lita, Mickie James, Charlotte Flair, Molly Holly, BRITT BAKER and plenty more.

Orange Cassidy in his mind is only 2.0 points away from The Rock on the microphone. Amazing.




The Definition of Technician said:


> Probably over half the posts in this thread, there's people discussing OC.
> 
> He's like Roman Reigns a few years ago for sure, many hate him, many fans, big youtube numbers, except OC is over with the live crowd, his act work 1000x more with a crowd, and it's ridiculous to call the OC/Y2J feud "useless" when we know what we know about AEW's long-term booking and call-backs.
> 
> If OC wasn't one of the most popular wrestlers in AEW, they wouldn't have shoe-horned him last min at Revolution. Feuding with Jericho did elevate him more, he's had a number of 1M views segment including vs *Angelico* FFS.
> 
> And Finally, one EXTREMELY stupid thing I saw being thrown here by trolls, is demanding him to be world champion now like pathetic dorks trying prove a point.
> You need to go back and watch *a lot* of wrestling where over mid-card acts feud with main eventers but don't immediately become champions after that.


Now not only have I seen Orange Cassidy compared to The Rock but also Roman Reigns. Roman is a big jacked up pretty boy with crossover appeal. As my mate Lheurch pointed out Orange Cassidy looks like a teenager you'd see walking the tracks looking for his next meal. 

Why are you against him being World Champion? Obviously it makes no sense right now but lets say MJF beats Mox, takes the World Title and OC beats him for it. Why wouldn't that be okay? He's over and drawing big ratings, right?


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> Now not only have I seen Orange Cassidy compared to The Rock but also Roman Reigns. Roman is a big jacked up pretty boy with crossover appeal. As my mate Lheurch pointed out Orange Cassidy looks like a teenager you'd see walking the tracks looking for his next meal.
> 
> Why are you against him being World Champion? Obviously it makes no sense right now but lets say MJF beats Mox, takes the World Title and OC beats him for it. Why wouldn't that be okay? He's over and drawing big ratings, right?


Lol, and who said I would be against this? It's going to depend on the story at the time, but you're seeing things from one side in a negative view because you're a troll.

But the World title scene doesn't look good for OC now with the many stories they are telling on top, OC can become TNT champion in a year or 2 after a couple of feuds.


----------



## bdon

The Definition of Technician said:


> Lol, and who said I would be against this? It's going to depend on the story at the time, but you're seeing things from one side in a negative view because you're a troll.
> 
> But the World title scene doesn't look good for OC now with the many stories they are telling on top, OC can become TNT champion in a year or 2 after a couple of feuds.


OC just spent 6 months in the most featured and prominent storyline. Why do you think these other characters are more important? AEW certainly hasn’t cast them as more important than Cassidy.


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> OC just spent 6 months in *the most featured and prominent storyline*. Why do you think these other characters are more important? AEW certainly hasn’t cast them as more important than Cassidy.


It really wasn't, you're ridiculously exaggerating to make a none-existent point.


----------



## Cult03

So last week had Jericho wrestling one half of Private Party and OC wrestling 10 and Moxley facing Butcher. All 3 of them are not really doing anything. OC could easily have moved onto feud with Moxley while MJF moved onto Jericho. If the company and you guys actually believed in Orange Cassidy you wouldn't be making every excuse under the sun to keep him away from the title.


----------



## Not Lying

😂 😂 😂 Some people really don't have the objectivity, patience, or mental capacity to understand why OC is not feuding with Moxley now.


----------



## One Shed

The Definition of Technician said:


> 😂 😂 😂 Some people really don't have the objectivity, patience, or mental capacity to understand why OC is not feuding with Moxley now.


He beat the former world champ twice and definitively. Someone who had only been pinned twice before in the company. That is objectively what happened.

Now subjectively I would never want to see Trashidy in a world title feud, but to laugh at or insult people's intelligence for following the logic of this is silly. In 1990 after Hogan lost to Warrior, if Virgil feuded with and beat Hogan clean twice, he should be going for the belt no? To think otherwise is the illogical position here.


----------



## Not Lying

Lheurch said:


> He beat the former world champ twice and definitively. Someone who had only been pinned twice before in the company. That is objectively what happened.
> 
> Now subjectively I would never want to see Trashidy in a world title feud, but to laugh at or insult people's intelligence for following the logic of this is silly. In 1990 after Hogan lost to Warrior, if Virgil feuded with and beat Hogan clean twice, he should be going for the belt no? To think otherwise is the illogical position here.


Jericho is a 50 year old guy who needed IC help in a lot of his wins.
OC's 2 wins over Jericho came via roll-up fuckery and then by throwing him in Mimosa.
Jericho has been protected but he also hasn't faced Brodie, Cage, Archer, MJF. 
Isn't Jericho's biggest win in AEW over Cody with help from MJF? There's also Omega a year ago but Jericho, clearly, isn't as "fit" as he was 1.5 years ago, which also plays a part.

Maybe you're mad that Jericho should be booked stronger (which has nothing to do with OC) and one that doesn't need IC, but Jericho is a veteran who can beat anybody because of his skills and experience and IC, *but he is not unbeatable even if protected. *
Add to that how OC won his matches, you see it was logical for Brodie to beat him, especially how dominant he was vs Cody. So Yes I do think it's ridiculous many of you are trolling OC fans saying "oh you should want him on top as world champion" when AEW clearly has a lot of stories laid out at the top that OC don't fit into right now.

This doesn't mean it was all a waste because we still haven't seen what OC's gona do with the rub. So, sit back and watch the fking show instead of playing booker and getting butthurt because Jericho feuded with one of the most popular wrestlers on the roster (in a time where he was actually supposed to be away if there was no pandemic).


----------



## One Shed

The Definition of Technician said:


> Jericho is a 50 year old guy who needed IC help in a lot of his wins.
> OC's 2 wins over Jericho came via roll-up fuckery and then by throwing him in Mimosa.
> Jericho has been protected but he also hasn't faced Brodie, Cage, Archer, MJF.
> Isn't Jericho's biggest win in AEW over Cody with help from MJF? There's also Omega a year ago but Jericho, clearly, isn't as "fit" as he was 1.5 years ago, which also plays a part.
> 
> Maybe you're mad that Jericho should be booked stronger (which has nothing to do with OC) and one that doesn't need IC, but Jericho is a veteran who can beat anybody because of his skills and experience and IC, *but he is not unbeatable even if protected. *
> Add to that how OC won his matches, you see it was logical for Brodie to beat him, especially how dominant he was vs Cody. So Yes I do think it's ridiculous many of you are trolling OC fans saying "oh you should want him on top as world champion" when AEW clearly has a lot of stories laid out at the top that OC don't fit into right now.
> 
> This doesn't mean it was all a waste because we still haven't seen what OC's gona do with the rub. So, sit back and watch the fking show instead of playing booker and getting butthurt because Jericho feuded with one of the most popular wrestlers on the roster (in a time where he was actually supposed to be away if there was no pandemic).


First, I am not mad. I am just frustrated.

And I also do not really think Jericho should be booked stronger. Heels cheat to win, which is what makes them heels right? They simply should have used that star power he brings (and that they are paying the most money for) to actually make new stars, not play fight in the dumpster with the homeless dude. And the excuse of "oh they have other stories to tell" is actually more insulting, because it just screams FAKE to the audience. No logic excuses having a guy who beat the former champ twice not to be going for the main belt. It is true he does not fit into the title picture because, well clearly just look at him. The whole thing was dumb and a waste of everyone's time. Stop excusing dumb.

Telling people to sit back and watch the show without commenting would mean there would be no need to even have a forum to discuss things right? So why are you here? Do you like EVERYTHING they do all the time? No? Well there you go.


----------



## bdon

If other stories are to be told, then why was Orange Cassidy’s story with Jericho more important than any other? Brodie Lee was important for Moxley for all of 3 weeks. Bron Cage‘A story was important to Moxley for about 4 weeks. Omega and Page barely get TV time.

The only person who can claim to have received more TV time than Orange Cassidy’s story is Cody rHHHodes, and we all know why that is.

So again, why are these other stories more important and deserving of a title shot than Orange Cassidy’s? AEW booked him on television more than damn near anyone else, so I’m only going on the story they presented.


----------



## bdon

My point, and I believe Lheurch’d, is that they pushed Orange Cassidy too hard with too many tv segments when there are other more deserving characters that could have used that TV time to make the audience invest.

I was bitching in November that the company felt like Jericho and Cody’s personal autobiography, and if your story doesn’t directly correlate to theirs, you’re not going to get a whole lot of television time to tell your story and get the audience invested.

It’s almost a year later, and we’re still watching the Jericho and Cody Show.


----------



## Not Lying

Lheurch said:


> First, I am not mad. I am just frustrated.
> 
> And I also do not really think Jericho should be booked stronger. Heels cheat to win, which is what makes them heels right? They simply should have used that star power he brings (and that they are paying the most money for) to actually make new stars, not play fight in the dumpster with the homeless dude. And the excuse of "oh they have other stories to tell" is actually more insulting, because it just screams FAKE to the audience. *No logic excuses having a guy who beat the former champ twice not to be going for the main belt.* It is true he does not fit into the title picture because, well clearly just look at him. The whole thing was dumb and a waste of everyone's time. Stop excusing dumb.
> 
> *Telling people to sit back and watch the show without commenting would mean there would be no need to even have a forum to discuss things right? So why are you here? Do you like EVERYTHING they do all the time? No? Well there you go.*


No. I just don't want to see people spending half the ratings thread complaining about OC for feuding with Jericho, when the feud is done now; and we still haven't seen the follow up. I also don't want to see people bitch and complain because they didn't see this follow-up in 3 weeks when AEW tells LONG stories.

And yes there is an excuse, because this AEW's universe and they have their own ranking and their own thing going, so if for you it didn't make sense to challenge for the world title, then you get used to this idea because that's AEW, and what happened was logical in the AEW Universe, what I'm trying to say that Jericho was unranked, but a big name and OC did earn a shot at least vs Brodie lee, and lost. Even if it wasn't OC, say it was Jungle Boy or Luchasaurus or Will Hobbs or Matt Hardy, I would see them eventually facing Brodie not Moxley first.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

bdon said:


> My point, and I believe Lheurch’d, is that they pushed Orange Cassidy too hard with too many tv segments when there are other more deserving characters that could have used that TV time to make the audience invest.
> 
> I was bitching in November that the company felt like Jericho and Cody’s personal autobiography, and if your story doesn’t directly correlate to theirs, you’re not going to get a whole lot of television time to tell your story and get the audience invested.
> 
> It’s almost a year later, and we’re still watching the Jericho and Cody Show.


Hopefully it's the Cody Show for another decade. Not sure why you hate him so much. Cornerstone.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> My point, and I believe Lheurch’d, is that they pushed Orange Cassidy too hard with too many tv segments when there are other more deserving characters that could have used that TV time to make the audience invest.
> 
> I was bitching in November that the company felt like Jericho and Cody’s personal autobiography, and if your story doesn’t directly correlate to theirs, you’re not going to get a whole lot of television time to tell your story and get the audience invested.
> 
> It’s almost a year later, and we’re still watching the Jericho and Cody Show.


Well, the show SHOULD be built around your champion who should be your top star or close to it and that was Jericho. So I had no problem with that. Jericho was and is the highest paid guy there and is there to build the show around and make new stars. And to their credit that is exactly what they did up until he lost the title to Mox. He always felt like a big deal and you knew some big stuff was going down when he came out. Now he spent a summer fighting with a homeless looking bum and is now going to celebrate 30 years of his career by being in a tag team match with a 50+ year old Luther and a masked guy who is not even listed on the roster on their own website. No one has fallen as far as Jericho has in six months in wrestling history.


----------



## One Shed

The Definition of Technician said:


> No. I just don't want to see people spending half the ratings thread complaining about OC for feuding with Jericho, when the feud is done now; and we still haven't seen the follow up. I also don't want to see people bitch and complain because they didn't see this follow-up in 3 weeks when AEW tells LONG stories.
> 
> And yes there is an excuse, because this AEW's universe and they have their own ranking and their own thing going, so if for you it didn't make sense to challenge for the world title, then you get used to this idea because that's AEW, and what happened was logical in the AEW Universe, what I'm trying to say that Jericho was unranked, but a big name and OC did earn a shot at least vs Brodie lee, and lost. Even if it wasn't OC, say it was Jungle Boy or Luchasaurus or Will Hobbs or Matt Hardy, I would see them eventually facing Brodie not Moxley first.


What I am reading there is "Get used to things not making sense." Fair enough, I have. Does not mean I have to like it.


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> My point, and I believe Lheurch’d, is that they pushed Orange Cassidy too hard with too many tv segments when there are other more deserving characters that could have used that TV time to make the audience invest.
> 
> I was bitching in November that the company felt like Jericho and Cody’s personal autobiography, and if your story doesn’t directly correlate to theirs, you’re not going to get a whole lot of television time to tell your story and get the audience invested.
> 
> It’s almost a year later, and we’re still watching the Jericho and Cody Show.


Do you seriously all believe this crap? 

Moxley's gotten a lot of focus since that mid-July fight with Cage. He was absent for 3 shows before, and yes the beginning of his feud with Cage didn't get much time. But he had a lot of time vs Brodie, MJF, and now Kingstone/Archer, and Cage eventually with Darby/Starks added. 
You sound ridiculous when you say Cody or Jericho are clearly more prominent when that's just not true, especially since mid-July.


----------



## Not Lying

Lheurch said:


> What I am reading there is "Get used to things not making sense." Fair enough, I have. Does not mean I have to like it.


you're fixation on criticising them for challenging for the TNT title instead of the world title is absurd. When you're also at the same time making accusations that the TNT is elevated to a high level because Cody hugged some spotlight for a while. 
So are you all so petty that you're willing to die on his hill that he should have challenged for the World title instead of TNT?
Say he did, he would lose like Kingston lost 2 weeks ago, and we'll back right back to this point.


----------



## bdon

The Definition of Technician said:


> Do you seriously all believe this crap?
> 
> Moxley's gotten a lot of focus since that mid-July fight with Cage. He was absent for 3 shows before, and yes the beginning of his feud with Cage didn't get much time. But he had a lot of time vs Brodie, MJF, and now Kingstone/Archer, and Cage eventually with Darby/Starks added.
> You sound ridiculous when you say Cody or Jericho are clearly more prominent when that's just not true, especially since mid-July.


2.5 months of the last 6.5 that he’s been champion.

Way to make your world champion feel important and like a big deal, even though THEY know he is and run to him anytime they need a ratings spike.

THEN they tell Cody to fuck off with the egotistical bullshit.


----------



## One Shed

The Definition of Technician said:


> you're fixation on criticising them for challenging for the TNT title instead of the world title is absurd. When you're also at the same time making accusations that the TNT is elevated to a high level because Cody hugged some spotlight for a while.
> So are you all so petty that you're willing to die on his hill that he should have challenged for the World title instead of TNT?
> Say he did, he would lose like Kingston lost 2 weeks ago, and we'll back right back to this point.


What? When have I argued Cody was hogging the spotlight? That is @bdon not me. I do not really have too many problems with Cody. You realize we are separate individuals right? You are arguing against an amalgam of different people's opinions. Most people would call that a straw man.

And again, I am not saying he SHOULD have challenged for the world title. I am saying logically he should be wanting to considering he went over Jericho twice. I would never, ever want to see Trashidy even close to a title shot, but logically he should be there. That is the point. Why have someone go over your highest paid and most well known star?


----------



## bdon

Lheurch said:


> What? When have I argued Cody was hogging the spotlight? That is @bdon not me. I do not really have too many problems with Cody. You realize we are separate individuals right? You are arguing against an amalgam of different people's opinions. Most people would call that a straw man.
> 
> And again, I am not saying he SHOULD have challenged for the world title. I am saying logically he should be wanting to considering he went over Jericho twice. *I would never, ever want to see Trashidy even close to a title shot, but logically he should be there. That is the point. Why have someone go over your highest paid and most well known star?*


Exactly.

AEW has given World Title shots out to guys who really haven’t earned it. What credible victories does Cage have? Eddie Kingston? Lance Archer? Brodie Lee GOT a significant win only after Cody got the call to go to Hollywood for a few weeks. Darby Allin have any significant wins? Jake Hager?

You could have used up two of Jericho’s losses in building a legitimate upper card guy. EVERYONE has known Kenny was taking the title from Moxley, so what better way to build him up than having HIM do a 6 month feud with the first world champion, LeChampion himself, instead of having Cassidy do the 6 month feud taking up such a prominent and featured story? Or maybe you build up one of MJF, Brian Cage, Brodie Lee, etc coming in and just destroying Jericho. Use those two Jericho losses to make Jungle Boy or Scorpio Sky’s TNT title matches feel more meaningful as they clearly were not elevated any by having a goddamn One Off match with Cody rHHHodes.

There was just a better usage of Jericho’s star power than wasting it on Cassidy, but Jericho doesn’t want to eat L’s to serious acts knowing it’s easier you slide up and down the card if you were just doing comedy BS.


----------



## Not Lying

Lheurch said:


> What? When have I argued Cody was hogging the spotlight? That is @bdon not me. I do not really have too many problems with Cody. You realize we are separate individuals right? You are arguing against an amalgam of different people's opinions. Most people would call that a straw man.
> 
> And again, I am not saying he SHOULD have challenged for the world title. I am saying logically he should be wanting to considering he went over Jericho twice. I would never, ever want to see Trashidy even close to a title shot, but logically he should be there. That is the point. Why have someone go over your highest paid and most well known star?


I lumped you in this time with @bdon because he did that just a few posts ago. In any case, it isn't a ridiculous claim, the TNT is prestigious because its been treated well so far. So OC should be honoured to challenge for it.

And it is so hard for you understand why a top popular mid-card act would beat a top guy and then lose for the champion?
One the program happened because due to OC and Jericho both being popular act that can appear to different people, and OC was already more popular than many of his peers despite doing relatively nothing prior. 
OC now has a win over Jericho, establishing him forever as a guy that can win and hang with the best when he's motivated. Him being popular now, with this credibility, I am looking forward to see what he does next, who his next feud will be, and the one after that. 
I don't see it logical for OC to bypass Cage, Archer, MJF to challenge Moxley. He's not ranked.


----------



## bdon

I view him as more deserving of a shot at Moxley’s title, because AEW has flat out told us that he is more important than Archer, Cage, Omega, Page, Jungle Boy, Darby Allin, Santana and Ortiz, Hager, Sammy Guevara, etc.

I’m only judging him based on what AEW has told me.


----------



## One Shed

The Definition of Technician said:


> I lumped you in this time with @bdon because he did that just a few posts ago. In any case, it isn't a ridiculous claim, the TNT is prestigious because its been treated well so far. So OC should be honoured to challenge for it.
> 
> And it is so hard for you understand why a top popular mid-card act would beat a top guy and then lose for the champion?
> One the program happened because due to OC and Jericho both being popular act that can appear to different people, and OC was already more popular than many of his peers despite doing relatively nothing prior.
> OC now has a win over Jericho, establishing him forever as a guy that can win and hang with the best when he's motivated. Him being popular now, with this credibility, I am looking forward to see what he does next, who his next feud will be, and the one after that.
> I don't see it logical for OC to bypass Cage, Archer, MJF to challenge Moxley. He's not ranked.


Exactly, the reason he is popular is because he does NOTHING. He has anti-charisma as I have said before. Lazy, basement dwelling types like him for some reason. No idea why.

Forever eh? How did that work out for Fandango? He is still a top act right? Oh. He is not believable because he looks as intimidating as the homeless guy on the street corner yelling that the end is nigh while selling pencils from a cup. Him being presented as a threat to anyone takes me completely out of the match. He is a sloppy worker who managed to give Jericho his worst match in 25 years (their second match). All that being said, it is ridiculous that someone who managed to beat your former world champ who had only been pinned twice before (once in a tag match and once to lose the title) would not end up being ranked. The whole thing is two levels of illogical booking. He should never have been in the feud to begin with, but anyone to win a feud like that SHOULD be ranked if wins and losses matter. Stupid on multiple levels, but people will defend it simply because AEW does it.


----------



## Not Lying

Lheurch said:


> Exactly, the reason he is popular is because he does NOTHING. He has anti-charisma as I have said before. Lazy, basement dwelling types like him for some reason. No idea why.
> 
> *Forever eh? How did that work out for Fandango? *He is still a top act right? Oh. He is not believable because he looks as intimidating as the homeless guy on the street corner yelling that the end is nigh while selling pencils from a cup. Him being presented as a threat to anyone takes me completely out of the match. He is a sloppy worker who managed to give Jericho his worst match in 25 years (their second match). All that being said, it is ridiculous that someone who managed to beat your former world champ who had only been pinned twice before (once in a tag match and once to lose the title) would not end up being ranked. The whole thing is two levels of illogical booking. He should never have been in the feud to begin with, but anyone to win a feud like that SHOULD be ranked if wins and losses matter. Stupid on multiple levels, but *people will defend it simply because AEW does it.*


See the difference is I have faith in AEW going forward to utilize this rub correctly, so he doesn't end up like Fandango.
I don't buy him beating Jericho as enough reason to bypass Cage, Archer, MJF. Guys that Jericho hasn't faced yet. I mean Archer IS the #1 contender, OC beats Jericho, he can't challenge Moxley now because there is someone else ahead in line, he still earned a shot at Brodie, and lost. So while he's good enough to beat Jericho when angry and motivated, he couldn't bring that same fire vs Brodie. Now we know though he's got it in him to get it done, when motivated and brings what he brought vs Jericho.



bdon said:


> I view him as more deserving of a shot at Moxley’s title, because AEW has flat out told us that he is more important than Archer, Cage, Omega, Page, Jungle Boy, Darby Allin, Santana and Ortiz, Hager, Sammy Guevara, etc.
> 
> I’m only judging him based on what AEW has told me.


More important *now* (but not stronger booked), because he is more popular *now by a decent margin.*


----------



## bdon

The Definition of Technician said:


> See the difference is I have faith in AEW going forward to utilize this rub correctly, so he doesn't end up like Fandango.
> I don't buy him beating Jericho as enough reason to bypass Cage, Archer, MJF. Guys that Jericho hasn't faced yet. I mean Archer IS the #1 contender, OC beats Jericho, he can't challenge Moxley now because there is someone else ahead in line, he still earned a shot at Brodie, and lost. So while he's good enough to beat Jericho when angry and motivated, he couldn't bring that same fire vs Brodie. Now we know though he's got it in him to get it done, when motivated and brings what he brought vs Jericho.
> 
> 
> 
> More important *now* (but not stronger booked), because he is more popular *now by a decent margin.*


He has more meaningful wins by far, so how is he not booked stronger? They don’t have a single significant win.


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> He has more meaningful wins by far, so how is he not booked stronger? They don’t have a single significant win.


Didn't OC lose to Pac? 

Didn't Cage win the Ladder match which had OC in it?

Didn't Archer win a 21 man Battle Royal which included many top guys, was ranked #2 and had a win over Dustin dominantly?


----------



## One Shed

The Definition of Technician said:


> See the difference is I have faith in AEW going forward to utilize this rub correctly, so he doesn't end up like Fandango.
> I don't buy him beating Jericho as enough reason to bypass Cage, Archer, MJF. Guys that Jericho hasn't faced yet. *I mean Archer IS the #1 contender, OC beats Jericho, he can't challenge Moxley now because there is someone else ahead in line*, he still earned a shot at Brodie, and lost. So while he's good enough to beat Jericho when angry and motivated, he couldn't bring that same fire vs Brodie. Now we know though he's got it in him to get it done, when motivated and brings what he brought vs Jericho.


Oh yeah? How about Butcher and Eddie Kingston? See how this logic fails? You cannot argue that someone is ahead of him and then have other unranked guys challenging for the title.


----------



## Not Lying

Lheurch said:


> Oh yeah? How about Butcher and Eddie Kingston? See how this logic fails? You cannot argue that someone is ahead of him and then have other unranked guys challenging for the title.


I hated Butcher's title shot, but Kingston's was explained well giving Archer's uncertainty and his claim to not being eliminated. OC was already booked for the match vs Brodie. 
Now if you're going to ask me why didn't they just scrap it and have OC/Moxley, well.

Here's how I see it, take that for you will.

Every promoter, including UFC, will try to make their big stars as important as possible. They would feed a champion guys they know he can beat while in the meantime building possible challengers. Moxley was never in any danger vs Kingston or Butcher, OC is more tricky. The promoter could afford to have OC beat Brodie, but can't take the risk of OC beating Moxley to give him a "random" match without any build-up. 

Why do I see things this way? It's the only way it makes sense, especially how Cody was having title matches with different people while waiting to face Hager at Fight for the fallen. They would sign on on those matches while having future matches announced (like Hager/Cody or Archer/Mox) because the promoter has pretty big faith in the current champ bumping ratings in a title match vs people he knows the champ can beat.


----------



## One Shed

The Definition of Technician said:


> I hated Butcher's title shot, but Kingston's was explained well giving Archer's uncertainty and his claim to not being eliminated. OC was already booked for the match vs Brodie.
> Now if you're going to ask me why didn't they just scrap it and have OC/Moxley, well.
> 
> Here's how I see it, take that for you will.
> 
> Every promoter, including UFC, will try to make their big stars as important as possible. They would feed a champion guys they know he can beat while in the meantime building possible challengers. Moxley was never in any danger vs Kingston or Butcher, OC is more tricky. The promoter could afford to have OC beat Brodie, but can't take the risk of OC beating Moxley to give him a "random" match without any build-up.
> 
> Why do I see things this way? It's the only way it makes sense, especially how Cody was having title matches with different people while waiting to face Hager at Fight for the fallen. They would sign on on those matches while having future matches announced (like Hager/Cody or Archer/Mox) because the promoter has pretty big faith in the current champ bumping ratings in a title match vs people he knows the champ can beat.


Yeah, I get that. It is a tight rope to walk. You do not want your champ off TV but you want the biggest matches on the PPV or big TV events and with PPVs every three months there is a lot to fill. I would have them do more non-title matches with Mox on TV. Butcher for sure should have been non-title. I would have had Eddie sending his guys out to challenge Mox every week non-title in an effort to weaken him for when Eddie finally gets his shot. Eddie getting it right away was not the right move, but I get they did it as a substitution since Archer came down with COVID. Still, not what I would have done but I do not have a huge issue with it since he did have a legit gripe since he was never eliminated.


----------



## Prosper

Wasn’t it explained on commentary that Moxley voluntarily put his title on the line against the Butcher?


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> Wasn’t it explained on commentary that Moxley voluntarily put his title on the line against the Butcher?


He did, and I get the whole idea behind the "fighting champion" angle but it kind of devalues someone earning a title shot to just give anyone a shot every week for a world title. They should protect it more to make shots mean something.


----------



## bdon

Winning a battle royal does not mean they have been booked better than Cassidy. Stop it. Orange Cassidy has victories (PLURAL) over Jericho, the former world champion. No one can say that.

Stop denying that they have booked him to be more important and a stronger competitor than everyone not named Moxley, Jericho and Cody.


----------



## DammitChrist

Lheurch said:


> *Exactly, the reason he is popular is because he does NOTHING. He has anti-charisma as I have said before. Lazy, basement dwelling types like him for some reason. No idea why.*
> 
> Forever eh? How did that work out for Fandango? He is still a top act right? Oh. He is not believable because he looks as intimidating as the homeless guy on the street corner yelling that the end is nigh while selling pencils from a cup. Him being presented as a threat to anyone takes me completely out of the match. He is a sloppy worker who managed to give Jericho his worst match in 25 years (their second match). All that being said, it is ridiculous that someone who managed to beat your former world champ who had only been pinned twice before (once in a tag match and once to lose the title) would not end up being ranked. The whole thing is two levels of illogical booking. He should never have been in the feud to begin with, but anyone to win a feud like that SHOULD be ranked if wins and losses matter. Stupid on multiple levels, but people will defend it simply because AEW does it.


Honestly, the actual basement-dwelling types are the sad folks who act like popular wrestlers (such as Orange Cassidy) have “anti-charisma”, and who (still) have NO clue on what the meaning of charisma really is. I’m not surprised that you’re on them who don’t know what that term is either.

People like Cassidy because he’s an entertaining/funny guy with a cool gimmick, and because he makes for a good babyface underdog whenever an opponent decides to push him too far. You can quit being naive and blind on why other people enjoy something that you’ve still yet to understand why. 

Anyway, Orange Cassidy’s feud in the summer against Chris Jericho was an entertaining/fun one, which ultimately led to the popular babyface getting his feel-good moment in the end. Orange Cassidy is now established in the (upper-) midcard as the guy who managed to get the better of Chris Jericho twice in the record-books, and he’s the same dude who took Brodie Lee to the limit before eventually coming up short.

For the record, Cassidy’s 1st match against Jericho back in July was pretty damn good, and it’s arguably one of the best singles matches in Dynamite history so far. It’s not shocking to me at all considering the fact how good both men really are in the ring.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Honestly, the actual basement-dwelling types are the sad folks who act like popular wrestlers (such as Orange Cassidy) have “anti-charisma”, and who (still) have NO clue on what the meaning of charisma really is. I’m not surprised that you’re on them who don’t know what that term is either.
> 
> Anyway, Orange Cassidy’s feud in the summer against Chris Jericho was an entertaining/fun one, which ultimately led to the popular babyface getting his feel-good moment in the end. Orange Cassidy is now established in the (upper-) midcard as the guy who managed to get the better of Chris Jericho twice in the record-books, and he’s the same dude who took Brodie Lee to the limit before eventually coming up short.
> 
> For the record, Cassidy’s 1st match against Jericho back in July was pretty damn good, and it’s arguably one of the best singles matches in Dynamite history so far. It’s not shocking to me at all considering the fact how good both men really are in the ring.


"Agree with my definition or you are wrong." Sorry, no, and I am far from the only one. It is fine that you like him and fine that I do not. You just have some weird reason for making this personal. Are you a relative? You gave him 8/10 in mic skills and he has spoken once. That is just objectively wrong. We clearly have a case of viewing the same screen and seeing two different things. Kind of like in politics today.

Not believing two people are engaged in a fight takes me completely out of the match. OC does that for me.

Calling his first match with Jericho one of the BEST in Dynamite history is pretty funny. Now, it was not BAD, I can admit that. Now can you admit their second was one of the worst not only in Dynamite history, but in Jericho's career?

Jericho can usually carry a guy as he has had to do so many times throughout his career, and he was able to in their first match but not in the second. OC by himself is just a sloppy guy who has relied on goofy comedy spots his whole indy career vs actually learning how to work properly. He has openly admitted he was hired specifically because his "character is a giant middle finger to professional wrestling" and in that I 100% agree with him.


----------



## bdon

Calling an Orange Cassidy match one of the best in history. Goddamn. You just forced me to go Matt Hardy on your ass now.

DELETE!!! DELETE!!! DELETE!!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

You guys are so out of touch it’s ridiculous.


----------



## DammitChrist

Lheurch said:


> "Agree with my definition or you are wrong." Sorry, no, and I am far from the only one. It is fine that you like him and fine that I do not. You just have some weird reason for making this personal. Are you a relative? You gave him 8/10 in mic skills and he has spoken once. That is just objectively wrong. We clearly have a case of viewing the same screen and seeing two different things. Kind of like in politics today.
> 
> Not believing two people are engaged in a fight takes me completely out of the match. OC does that for me.
> 
> Calling his first match with Jericho one of the BEST in Dynamite history is pretty funny. Now, it was not BAD, I can admit that.* Now can you admit their second was one of the worst not only in Dynamite history, but in Jericho's career?*
> 
> Jericho can usually carry a guy as he has had to do so many times throughout his career, and he was able to in their first match but not in the second. OC by himself is just a sloppy guy who has relied on goofy comedy spots his whole indy career vs actually learning how to work properly. He has openly admitted he was hired specifically because his "character is a giant middle finger to professional wrestling" and in that I 100% agree with him.


No, I won't admit shit because their 2nd match together was a really good TV match.

It's pretty ridiculous to claim that their 2nd match was even (halfway) CLOSE to being Jericho's "worst" match (let alone that silly notion that it was even "bad) 



bdon said:


> Calling an Orange Cassidy match one of the best in history. Goddamn. You just forced me to go Matt Hardy on your ass now.
> 
> DELETE!!! DELETE!!! DELETE!!


Ok, do it then m8.

I don't tend to overreact frequently like you do.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Wasn't the first Jericho/Orange match the one at FyterFest? If so, that match was average at best and the following one (The 5000 dollar challenge one?) was awful.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> No, I won't admit shit because their 2nd match together was a really good TV match.
> 
> It's pretty ridiculous to claim that their 2nd match was even (halfway) CLOSE to being Jericho's "worst" match (let alone that silly notion that it was even "bad)


You...you thought their second match was good?? It was a complete slop fest. The ending was a complete botch. If you cannot even admit that second match was bad I really dunno what to say.


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> Winning a battle royal does not mean they have been booked better than Cassidy. Stop it. Orange Cassidy has victories (PLURAL) over Jericho, the former world champion. No one can say that.
> 
> Stop denying that they have booked him to be more important and a stronger competitor than everyone not named Moxley, Jericho and Cody.


Nah man. Important booking is not strong booking. OC wasn't nearly as dominant in his 1 on 1 wins over Jericho, as Cage and Archer were during the multi-man matches and their run.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Lheurch said:


> You...you thought their second match was good?? It was a complete slop fest. The ending was a complete botch. If you cannot even admit that second match was bad I really dunno what to say.


The second match is where OC botched like four times including the finish. Pretty much this entire forum agreed that it was bad as well.

Anyone saying that it was good is blindly in love with AEW.


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> The second match is where OC botched like four times including the finish. Pretty much this entire forum agreed that it was bad as well.
> 
> Anyone saying that it was good is blindly in love with AEW.


I honestly cannot think of a worse Jericho match going all the way back to him showing up in WCW and I have seen almost all of his other than some in later WWE.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> You guys are so out of touch it’s ridiculous.


Most wrestling fans don't watch AEW, even less enjoy Orange Cassidy. In fact very few people on social media even bother to follow him because he isn't as popular as you guys like to put on. So I ask you, who are we out of touch with? The 700k fans who put up with OC? How many of them actually like him? The 10 of you on here that defend everything this company does? Or you, the bloke who has admitted to trolling and defending things AEW does just to get a reaction? 

In my defense, I'm glad I am out of touch if they're the fucking options.


----------



## Cult03

The Definition of Technician said:


> No. I just don't want to see people spending half the ratings thread complaining about OC for feuding with Jericho, when the feud is done now; *and we still haven't seen the follow up.* I also don't want to see people bitch and complain because they didn't see this follow-up in 3 weeks when AEW tells LONG stories.
> 
> And yes there is an excuse, because this AEW's universe and they have their own ranking and their own thing going, so if for you it didn't make sense to challenge for the world title, then you get used to this idea because that's AEW, and what happened was logical in the AEW Universe, what I'm trying to say that Jericho was unranked, but a big name and OC did earn a shot at least vs Brodie lee, and lost. Even if it wasn't OC, say it was Jungle Boy or Luchasaurus or Will Hobbs or Matt Hardy, I would see them eventually facing Brodie not Moxley first.


We have seen the follow up. There wasn't one. It was a wasted feud because they didn't capitalize on whatever popularity these dorks think OC gained from beating Jericho numerous times. You guys don't get it. They don't actually have faith in Cassidy to be anything other than a troll wrestler to piss off Cornette. It's been admitted already. You're trying to justify him as a serious competitor when even the company has admitted that isn't what he is. This company doesn't want to be taken seriously, it wants to mock the people who mocked the EVP's for not being good enough to compete in the actual big leagues. These guys have massive chips on their shoulders. It's going to hinder them from being taken seriously for a long time.


----------



## Not Lying

Cult03 said:


> *We have seen the follow up*. There wasn't one. It was a wasted feud because they didn't capitalize on whatever popularity these dorks think OC gained from beating Jericho numerous times. You guys don't get it. They don't actually have faith in Cassidy to be anything other than a troll wrestler to piss off Cornette. It's been admitted already. You're trying to justify him as a serious competitor when even the company has admitted that isn't what he is. This company doesn't want to be taken seriously, it wants to mock the people who mocked the EVP's for not being good enough to compete in the actual big leagues. These guys have massive chips on their shoulders. It's going to hinder them from being taken seriously for a long time.


Sure man, we've seen it xD
If you're still on this forum a year from now, I'll bump this for you. Call me petty then.


----------



## Garty

optikk sucks said:


> You guys are so out of touch it’s ridiculous.


I don't know what is being said, but I'm damn sure I know who is saying it!


----------



## Cult03

The Definition of Technician said:


> Sure man, we've seen it xD
> If you're still on this forum a year from now, I'll bump this for you. Call me petty then.


Haha you can literally claim anything he does within the next year is follow up. It's an argument you can't lose. My argument is why does he defeat Jericho and automatically go into a nothing feud. It's not fun to watch AEW do literally nothing for months and then try for three weeks before a PPV. They do it all the time and people act pretentious as fuck claiming someone wearing pants is a hint and some sort of story telling genius. It's a joke. Do something to build stories every week and stop wasting peoples time.


----------



## Cult03

Garty said:


> I don't know what is being said, but I'm damn sure I know who is saying it!


Oh you actually have us on ignore this week? Thanks for letting us know, this bait was completely necessary.


----------



## One Shed

Garty said:


> I don't know what is being said, but I'm damn sure I know who is saying it!


Bubble Boy enjoying his safe space with no sharp objects


----------



## Not Lying

Cult03 said:


> Haha you can literally claim anything he does within the next year is follow up. It's an argument you can't lose. My argument is why does he defeat Jericho and automatically go into a nothing feud. It's not fun to watch AEW do literally nothing for months and then try for three weeks before a PPV. They do it all the time and people act pretentious as fuck claiming someone wearing pants is a hint and some sort of story telling genius. It's a joke. Do something to build stories every week and stop wasting peoples time.


Yeah that's the thing, if you can't be patient with AEW, let the stories currently in place take fold, while they do other things on the fly (like OC/Y2J) and in the meantime come up with a good story for the breakout star (OC) to be champion, you'll be constantly disappointed. They have a couple of huge things set, OC's unexpected popularity made them give him a bigger chance, and they followed up logically in AEW's universe, by having him challenge Brodie, and lose. Now, he'll have a couple of feud before becoming champion with this rub which should be interesting.
They're not wasting people's time, they're wasting time of people who don't want to invest in their product..


----------



## Cult03

The Definition of Technician said:


> Yeah that's the thing, if you can't be patient with AEW, let the stories currently in place take fold, while they do other things on the fly (like OC/Y2J) and in the meantime come up with a good story for the breakout star (OC) to be champion, you'll be constantly disappointed. They have a couple of huge things set, OC's unexpected popularity made them give him a bigger chance, and they followed up logically in AEW's universe, by having him challenge Brodie, and lose. Now, he'll have a couple of feud before becoming champion with this rub which should be interesting.
> They're not wasting people's time, they're wasting time of people who don't want to invest in their product..


These are such cop out responses. OC is not popular, he simply isn't. He gets pops from crowd members who will cheer anything and has ten people defending him online because they have to defend everything. I'm constantly disappointed with AEW because they try to turn everything into a joke. They're absolutely wasting people's time, because they can't be bothered making a weekly show interesting. Or maybe they don't know how to. 

I have two questions. Would these excuses fly if WWE fans used them? And what would AEW have to do for you and the other super fans to criticize them?


----------



## Not Lying

Cult03 said:


> These are such cop out responses. OC is not popular, he simply isn't. He gets pops from crowd members who will cheer anything and has ten people defending him online because they have to defend everything. I'm constantly disappointed with AEW because they try to turn everything into a joke. They're absolutely wasting people's time, because they can't be bothered making a weekly show interesting. Or maybe they don't know how to.
> 
> I have two questions. Would these excuses fly if WWE fans used them? And what would AEW have to do for you and the other super fans to criticize them?


lmao, nop, I'm convinced you don't get it at this point because you just don't want to get it and enjoy the trolling.
You can't possibly be stupid enough to claim one of the most over guys with the crowd, 2nd to Moxley in youtube views, one of the biggest merch seller (very important metric), add to that the fact he's been involved in the most 1m segments most recently, and you still have the audacity to claim he is not popular.

I'll criticize AEW when they give me Nakazawa on TV. Not happy with Luther next week at all.
WWE has a history of droppinng things, AEW is brand new, and fans (not haters like you) actually see the long-term storytelling.


----------



## DammitChrist

Cult03 said:


> Oh you actually have us on ignore this week? Thanks for letting us know, this bait was completely necessary.


Wow, I'm actually surprised that you didn't file a complaint/report on that innocent poster (again) 



Chip Chipperson said:


> The second match is where OC botched like four times including the finish. Pretty much this entire forum agreed that it was bad as well.
> 
> Anyone saying that it was good is blindly in love with AEW.


Oh, you want to be petty and generalize then?

Anyone saying that the match was "good" is hopelessly blinded by Cassidy (at all) wrestling a solid competitive match with Jericho again.

That's really not that hard to do :mj4


----------



## Cult03

The Definition of Technician said:


> lmao, nop, I'm convinced you don't get it at this point because you just don't want to get it and enjoy the trolling.
> You can't possibly be stupid enough to claim one of the most over guys with the crowd, 2nd to Moxley in youtube views, one of the biggest merch seller (very important metric), add to that the fact he's been involved in the most 1m segments most recently, and you still have the audacity to claim he is not popular.
> 
> I'll criticize AEW when they give me Nakazawa on TV. Not happy with Luther next week at all.
> WWE has a history of droppinng things, AEW is brand new, and fans (not haters like you) actually see the long-term storytelling.


AEW has a history of just dropping things too, mate. These companies aren't as different as some of you like to put on. I'm not trolling at all. I've given reasons as to why OC gets views on Youtube, I myself have watched it four times so I can come back here and argue why it sucked. Everything is over with the AEW crowd and having seen those in the crowd I totally get why you think OC is "cool". Where is the proof regarding OC selling merch? I've seen people say it, but I've also never seen what everyone else is selling. With shirts like the one Best Friends just released I can imagine why OC sells more than most. He's not popular because he doesn't have a following online, another important metric when talking about popularity, and one that shows a legitimate number of fans.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, you want to be petty and generalize then?
> 
> Anyone saying that the match was "good" is hopelessly blinded by Cassidy (at all) wrestling a solid competitive match with Jericho again.
> 
> That's really not that hard to do :mj4


The second match was one of Jericho's worst in 25 years. Disagree? Name a worse one. No one in the live thread was defending it from memory. You know it is OK to like a guy and admit they had a really bad match. I have been a Jericho fan since 1996 and I can admit he has had his worst series of matches ever this year. See? That was easy. I hope he gets back on his A Game now that he looks to be starting something with actual future star MJF.


----------



## DammitChrist

Cult03 said:


> AEW has a history of just dropping things too, mate. These companies aren't as different as some of you like to put on. I'm not trolling at all. I've given reasons as to why OC gets views on Youtube, I myself have watched it four times so I can come back here and argue why it sucked. Everything is over with the AEW crowd and having seen those in the crowd I totally get why you think OC is "cool". Where is the proof regarding OC selling merch? I've seen people say it, but I've also never seen what everyone else is selling. With shirts like the one Best Friends just released I can imagine why OC sells more than most. He's not popular because he doesn't have a following online, another important metric when talking about popularity, and one that shows a legitimate number of fans.


Dude, Orange Cassidy IS over because he’s CONSISTENTLY received one of the loudest positive crowd reactions/pops for MONTHS on the pre-pandemic shows. 

In fact, he’s STILL one of the most popular acts on the show even in the pandemic period (along with Jon Moxley, Adam Page, Cody Rhodes, Chris Jericho, Kenny Omega, and Darby Allin).

Are you SERIOUSLY using the low INSTAGRAM/TWITTER followers to blatantly downplay Cassidy’s (obvious) overness?? :mj4

Good lord, that’s rich of you reaching this deep


----------



## Cult03

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, Orange Cassidy IS over because he’s CONSISTENTLY received one of the loudest positive crowd reactions/pops for MONTHS on the pre-pandemic shows.
> 
> In fact, he’s STILL one of the most popular acts on the show even in the pandemic period (along with Jon Moxley, Adam Page, Cody Rhodes, Chris Jericho, Kenny Omega, and Darby Allin).
> 
> Are you SERIOUSLY using the low INSTAGRAM/TWITTER followers to blatantly downplay Cassidy’s (obvious) overness?? :mj4
> 
> Good lord, that’s rich of you reaching this deep


Yes I am. Because it's a direct indication of how popular he actually is worldwide. Having a few thousand people who cheer for everything cheer for him is not a good enough metric. I understand that some of you fit the mold of the classic AEW fan and don't want to talk down to them but I'm sorry, the people in that crowd were not cool people who have a good grasp on what is actually cool. Orange Cassidy can be king of the nerds, but lets be fucking honest here. Overall he is not over or popular in the wrestling world


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> OC's unexpected popularity made them give him a bigger chance, and they followed up logically in AEW's universe, by having him challenge Brodie, and lose.


Uh huh.

Lets hypothetically say that everything you're saying is 100% correct and they have this big plan for Orange and he's going to be champion and all this good shit. Why would you have him lose to the almost 41 year old ex WWE star fresh off WWE TV? Wouldn't that just tell your audience that even your very best homegrown star can't get it done against the guys fresh off WWE TV?

Also, if the plan is for Orange to be the big star why was he casually tossed to the side for the shitty Brody/Cody segment? We didn't see him again after taking the fall. If Orange is meant to be this big star 12 months from now why not have Cody, Dustin, QT AND Orange fight off The Dark Order to at least make it look like OC did something?

Terrible booking yet somehow someway people say Tony knows what he's doing.



DammitChrist said:


> Dude, Orange Cassidy IS over because he’s CONSISTENTLY received one of the loudest positive crowd reactions/pops for MONTHS on the pre-pandemic shows.
> 
> In fact, he’s STILL one of the most popular acts on the show even in the pandemic period (along with Jon Moxley, Adam Page, Cody Rhodes, Chris Jericho, Kenny Omega, and Darby Allin).
> 
> Are you SERIOUSLY using the low INSTAGRAM/TWITTER followers to blatantly downplay Cassidy’s (obvious) overness?? :mj4
> 
> Good lord, that’s rich of you reaching this deep


As we've said before, the AEW fans will cheer anything. Look at this example, ECW back in the day had this rabid audience of maybe 100,000 people (That's how many bought the first PPV, I know they were doing close to a million in 2000 for TV but bear with me)

What happened when those guys got in front of mainstream audiences? Taz? Midcard. Raven? Had a decent run in WCW but was mainly midcard. Sandman? Midcard and never got over as a top guy in WCW or WWE. Sabu? Midcard. Shane Douglas? As talented as he was the biggest height he reached was upper midcard in the dying days of WCW. Dreamer? Massive star in ECW but never got out of the low midcard in WWE. I can continue going but really the only guys who were in ECW long term that got over with the casual fans in a big way elsewhere were Rob Van Dam, Heyman and to a lesser extent the Dudley Boys.

AEW is the same, yeah the 5000 people at an AEW Dynamite taping might absolutely adore Orange Cassidy but does Joe the trucker from Alabama with 2 kids and a beautiful wife that love wrestling want to see Orange? Most likely not. Does Stephanie the 35 year old admin worker that doesn't mind chucking RAW on because the guys are attractive and athletic want to see Orange Cassidy? No. Does Matthew the 13 year old who loves wrestling dare go to school and chat with his friends about this new wrestling promotion he stumbled across that has a guy that fights with his hands in his pockets? Most likely not.

Also, real talk here. As a promoter I have booked people in the past based on social media following. If I have a guy that puts my poster up on his Instagram and gets 150 likes every single time I'm more likely to book him then the guy who puts my poster up and gets 7 likes. Also, as said before upon studying media there are weeks and weeks of studying that goes into social media and how important it is and how to run it effectively. Hell, most radio stations, TV stations etc have a social media manager who gets paid really good money to make sure the audience are staying engaged with social media and that a constant stream of new likes and followers are coming in.

The argument that social media isn't a good gauge of popularity of a person that allegedly targets the 13-25 male demographic is up there as one of the worst arguments I have ever seen on this forum and I've seen some truly awful arguments on here.


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> Uh huh.
> 
> Lets hypothetically say that everything you're saying is 100% correct and they have this big plan for Orange and he's going to be champion and all this good shit. Why would you have him lose to the almost 41 year old ex WWE star fresh off WWE TV? Wouldn't that just tell your audience that even your very best homegrown star can't get it done against the guys fresh off WWE TV?
> 
> Also, if the plan is for Orange to be the big star why was he casually tossed to the side for the shitty Brody/Cody segment? We didn't see him again after taking the fall. If Orange is meant to be this big star 12 months from now why not have Cody, Dustin, QT AND Orange fight off The Dark Order to at least make it look like OC did something?
> 
> Terrible booking yet somehow someway people say Tony knows what he's doing.
> 
> 
> 
> As we've said before, the AEW fans will cheer anything. Look at this example, ECW back in the day had this rabid audience of maybe 100,000 people (That's how many bought the first PPV, I know they were doing close to a million in 2000 for TV but bear with me)
> 
> What happened when those guys got in front of mainstream audiences? Taz? Midcard. Raven? Had a decent run in WCW but was mainly midcard. Sandman? Midcard and never got over as a top guy in WCW or WWE. Sabu? Midcard. Shane Douglas? As talented as he was the biggest height he reached was upper midcard in the dying days of WCW. Dreamer? Massive star in ECW but never got out of the low midcard in WWE. I can continue going but really the only guys who were in ECW long term that got over with the casual fans in a big way elsewhere were Rob Van Dam, Heyman and to a lesser extent the Dudley Boys.
> 
> AEW is the same, yeah the 5000 people at an AEW Dynamite taping might absolutely adore Orange Cassidy but does Joe the trucker from Alabama with 2 kids and a beautiful wife that love wrestling want to see Orange? Most likely not. Does Stephanie the 35 year old admin worker that doesn't mind chucking RAW on because the guys are attractive and athletic want to see Orange Cassidy? No. Does Matthew the 13 year old who loves wrestling dare go to school and chat with his friends about this new wrestling promotion he stumbled across that has a guy that fights with his hands in his pockets? Most likely not.
> 
> Also, real talk here. As a promoter I have booked people in the past based on social media following. If I have a guy that puts my poster up on his Instagram and gets 150 likes every single time I'm more likely to book him then the guy who puts my poster up and gets 7 likes. Also, as said before upon studying media there are weeks and weeks of studying that goes into social media and how important it is and how to run it effectively. Hell, most radio stations, TV stations etc have a social media manager who gets paid really good money to make sure the audience are staying engaged with social media and that a constant stream of new likes and followers are coming in.
> 
> The argument that social media isn't a good gauge of popularity of a person that allegedly targets the 13-25 male demographic is up there as one of the worst arguments I have ever seen on this forum and I've seen some truly awful arguments on here.


Dude, saying Orange Cassidy in the same sentence as ECW hurts. You will never have heat like Dudley heat ever again.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Lheurch said:


> Dude, saying Orange Cassidy in the same sentence as ECW hurts. You will never have heat like Dudley heat ever again.


More of a comparison between AEW fanbase and ECW fanbase lol. Two highly loyal bases although ECW fans would generally shit on dumb stuff whilst AEW fans are more okay with just driving right through it.

I could imagine Orange Cassidy in 1998 coming out in the ECW arena with his hands in his pockets and the chants that he would be hit with.


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> More of a comparison between AEW fanbase and ECW fanbase lol. Two highly loyal bases although ECW fans would generally shit on dumb stuff whilst AEW fans are more okay with just driving right through it.
> 
> I could imagine Orange Cassidy in 1998 coming out in the ECW arena with his hands in his pockets and the chants that he would be hit with.


I would pay money to hear some ECW chants if someone like Garbage Trashidy walked out on their show.


----------



## DammitChrist

Guys like Jon Moxley, Cody Rhodes, Kenny Omega, and Orange Cassidy have less social media followers than some WWE midcarders (such as Baron Corbin); but sure, let’s ignore their consistently hot/positive crowd reactions because you can’t stand the fact that they’re also popular. Let’s also pretend that those fan favorites in AEW aren’t over with the audience 

Imagine using the number of SOCIAL MEDIA followers in order to downplay the overness of those AEW fan favorites when those guys keep receiving the best reactions and the most buzz from the shows. Your argument is fucking terrible because it’s basically implying that someone like Baron Corbin is “more” over than Jon Moxley, Cody Rhodes, Kenny Omega, and Orange Cassidy when I guarantee that a WWE midcarder like him wouldn’t outpop those guys at all.

Hell, even established/charismatic WWE midcarders like Dolph Ziggler, Cesaro, Kofi Kingston, and even The Miz would struggle to get better crowd reactions than those AEW fan favorites nowadays despite having a lot of social media followers. At best, those WWE midcarders would be competing with the popular AEW guys in terms of who’s getting cheered (or booed) more.

For the record, I would HAPPILY take a wrestler who’s consistently receiving the best crowd reactions on my shows with a moderate number of social media followers and push HIM (or HER) over a talent who has lukewarm crowd reactions despite having a great number of followers on social media.

Your claim of using social media followers to downplay the popularity of those AEW fan favorites (or hell, ANY popular wrestler on whatever other wrestling company) while ignoring those crowd reactions is a SHITTY argument, and it’s easily one of the worst takes that I’ve read this week. The fact that you’re even implying that someone else’s argument is “awful” when yours is fucking garbage is not only ironic, but it’s also LAUGHABLE too.



Lheurch said:


> I would pay money to hear some ECW chants if *someone like Garbage Trashidy*walked out on their show.


The pettiness and soreness is real there.


----------



## Cult03

DammitChrist said:


> Guys like Jon Moxley, Cody Rhodes, Kenny Omega, and Orange Cassidy have less social media followers than some WWE midcarders (such as Baron Corbin); but sure, let’s ignore their consistently hot/positive crowd reactions because you can’t stand the fact that they’re also popular. Let’s also pretend that those fan favorites in AEW aren’t over with the audience.
> 
> Imagine using the number of SOCIAL MEDIA followers in order to downplay the overness of those AEW fan favorites when those guys keep receiving the best reactions and the most buzz from the shows. Your argument is fucking terrible because it’s basically implying that someone like Baron Corbin is “more” over than Jon Moxley, Cody Rhodes, Kenny Omega, and Orange Cassidy when I guarantee that a WWE midcarder like him wouldn’t outpop those guys at all.
> 
> Hell, even established/charismatic WWE midcarders like Dolph Ziggler, Cesaro, Kofi Kingston, and even The Miz would struggle to get better crowd reactions than those AEW fan favorites nowadays despite having a lot of social media followers. At best, those WWE midcarders would be competing with the popular AEW guys in terms of who’s getting cheered (or booed) more.
> 
> For the record, I would HAPPILY take a wrestler who’s consistently receiving the best crowd reactions on my shows with a moderate number of social media followers and push HIM (or HER) over a talent who has lukewarm crowd reactions despite having a great number of followers on social media.
> 
> Your claim of using social media followers to downplay the popularity of those AEW fan favorites (or hell, ANY popular wrestler on whatever other wrestling company) while ignoring those crowd reactions is a SHITTY argument, and it’s easily one of the worst takes that I’ve read this week. The fact that you’re even implying that someone else’s argument is “awful” when yours is fucking garbage is not only ironic, but it’s also LAUGHABLE too.


Moxley doesn't do social media and Jericho is the only other person in this company that is more popular or well known than Baron Corbin around the world. Those well established WWE midcarders get large reactions in AEW, because absolutely every single thing they do gets large reactions. This argument is stupid, very few people know who Orange Cassidy is and his popularity has been embarrassingly exaggerated and you guys eat up whatever metric Meltzer tells you. You can keep saying he gets good reactions from the dorky AEW crowd but who doesn't? Expecting popular people to have a strong social media following is not a bad take, especially with the age group you guys claim AEW targets. It's one of the only barometers that can give a specific number. But it proves your point to be incorrect so you'll argue it to the death. Prove to me that OC is popular, without using something that isn't measurable like a crowd reaction.


----------



## bdon

Jericho basically threw Orange Cassidy to the wayside once he “put Cassidy over”? Hmm. 

Sounds like Cody rHHHodes’s feuds. Gee. I wonder why that is..?


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> 1 person is not the same as 200k.
> 
> Pro wrestling needs to evolve. Not be stuck in the past.


200k is not the same as 2 million people either. AEW’s ratings are just not impressive for wrestling.

Buzzwords. There’s nothing in this idea of “evolution.” If something isn’t broke, why fix it? Wrestling has been micromanaged into redundancy by people who can’t leave good enough alone. 



Pippen94 said:


> Don't watch then


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> Guys like Jon Moxley, Cody Rhodes, Kenny Omega, and Orange Cassidy have less social media followers than some WWE midcarders (such as Baron Corbin); but sure, let’s ignore their consistently hot/positive crowd reactions because you can’t stand the fact that they’re also popular. Let’s also pretend that those fan favorites in AEW aren’t over with the audience


Hmm, Corbin has 476,000 Twitter followers.

Moxley: 724,000 followers

Omega: 453,000 followers

Rhodes: 978,000 followers

---

Omega has been treated as kind of a midcarder in AEW so it makes sense that his number is relatively low but Orange's is low even compared to a guy like Kenny who is also midcard/upper midcard in AEW.

Not as many people care as you think.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hmm, Corbin has 476,000 Twitter followers.
> 
> Moxley: 724,000 followers
> 
> Omega: 453,000 followers
> 
> Rhodes: 978,000 followers
> 
> ---
> 
> Omega has been treated as kind of a midcarder in AEW so it makes sense that his number is relatively low but Orange's is low even compared to a guy like Kenny who is also midcard/upper midcard in AEW.
> 
> Not as many people care as you think.


It’s actually very impressive that Omega has the following he does given he is a name that, until last year, had never been seen on American television.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hmm, Corbin has 476,000 Twitter followers.
> 
> Moxley: 724,000 followers
> 
> Omega: 453,000 followers
> 
> Rhodes: 978,000 followers
> 
> ---
> 
> Omega has been treated as kind of a midcarder in AEW so it makes sense that his number is relatively low but Orange's is low even compared to a guy like Kenny who is also midcard/upper midcard in AEW.
> 
> Not as many people care as you think.


Except that you can argue that Cassidy’s low number of social media followers is understandable considering the fact that he didn’t become an established midcarder one of the 3 main wrestling companies (WWE + AEW + NJPW) until just recently in the end of the summer.

He wasn’t even well-known over a year ago, which makes it even more impressive that Orange Cassidy was even popular/over enough to get a lengthy upper-midcard feud against Chris Jericho.

You downplaying his popularity because of SOCIAL MEDIA FOLLOWERS still doesn’t change the fact that people who frequently watch Dynamite (or attend the shows live in attendance pre-pandemic especially) still react to Cassidy favorably, and that he’s still one of the most popular wrestlers on the show.

More people care about him than you think.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> You downplaying his popularity because of SOCIAL MEDIA FOLLOWERS still doesn’t change the fact that people who frequently watch Dynamite (or attend the shows live in attendance pre-pandemic especially) still react to Cassidy favorably, and that he’s still one of the most popular wrestlers on the show.
> 
> More people care about him than you think.


Are you reading posts or just shaking your head no at them and repeating the same argument?

Yes, people react favourably to Cassidy in an AEW set up, if he walked out on the next episode of RAW he'd get zero reaction and nobody would care.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> Are you reading posts or just shaking your head no at them and repeating the same argument?


I am reading your posts. 

You just happen to have piss-poor points that fail to disprove Cassidy's overness. That's all.

If I sound repetitive, it's because you're not listening and in (hopeless) denial of his popularity.



> Yes, people react favourably to Cassidy in an AEW set up, if he walked out on the next episode of RAW he'd get zero reaction and nobody would care.


It'd be hilarious to see Cassidy appear on Raw soon, and you end up getting a good portion of wrestling fans popping for him to disprove your cute assumption that "nobody" would care


----------



## The Wood

It's amazing to me that people can't understand how the guy is only over in a vacuum. It's artificial fan support. The people who buy tickets to Dynamite are NOT the sort of people you want setting trends. I can't believe that people are so wilfully ignorant to the point that they can't actually see how something being "over" in this context is a counterproductive thing. It caps you. And people are going nuts about 1 million people like it's some amazing achievement. For those 1 million people, you're leaving another million out in the dark. 

Surely people can understand that argument? Even if you don't agree, surely everyone can grasp the idea that getting the mediocre amount of attention that he's getting makes AEW look frivolous.


----------



## Cult03

DammitChrist said:


> Except that you can argue that Cassidy’s low number of social media followers is understandable considering the fact that he didn’t become an established midcarder one of the 3 main wrestling companies (WWE + AEW + NJPW) until just recently in the end of the summer.
> 
> He wasn’t even well-known over a year ago, which makes it even more impressive that Orange Cassidy was even popular/over enough to get a lengthy upper-midcard feud against Chris Jericho.
> 
> You downplaying his popularity because of SOCIAL MEDIA FOLLOWERS still doesn’t change the fact that people who frequently watch Dynamite (or attend the shows live in attendance pre-pandemic especially) still react to Cassidy favorably, and that he’s still one of the most popular wrestlers on the show.
> 
> More people care about him than you think.


Except that's now how social media works. When someone sees someone they like they automatically follow them, because their devices are literally in their pocket. He's had months now to gain a following and hasn't. AEW isn't popular and people aren't actually interested in him. He got good viewers because of Jericho. 

No, less people care. They're just very loud about their fandom and repeat themselves a hundred times so it seems like there's more fans. This conversation is proof of that. I will admit that he's over in the bubble that is AEW in America with a certain subsection of wrestling fans. Worldwide, with the rest of the wrestling fans they think he's a joke and a detriment (one of them) to the company. The company is a meme company and OC is the perfect man to troll Cornette and nothing else. Who doesn't get a good reaction from the AEW crowd? They even responded the way they were supposed to when The Nightmare Collective existed or when Nakazawa covered himself in oil. This fan base sucks and AEW will never be cool.


----------



## DammitChrist

Cult03 said:


> Except that's now how social media works. When someone sees someone they like they automatically follow them, because their devices are literally in their pocket*.* He's had months now to gain a following and hasn't. AEW isn't popular and people aren't actually interested in him. He got good viewers because of Jericho.


I just LOVE how you're acting like Orange Cassidy had "months" to gain a fan following (even though he already has his supportive fans) when it's barely been ONE month since he won the feud with Chris Jericho, which finally established Cassidy as an (upper-) midcarder; but yet somehow you're acting like he's a 'failure' 

It'll take much more time for Cassidy to catch up with the other AEW fan favorites in terms of social media followers, ESPECIALLY when the guy was unknown to most wrestling fans just over a year ago (which can't be said for the other wrestlers on AEW who are really over.

Hell, it's already impressive as it is that he's managed to become one of the most popular wrestlers on AEW atm under a short period of time despite starting out as a comic-relief 'manager' who doesn't do much.

For the record, it's pretty cute that you're only giving credit to Jericho for the good viewership (who definitely did his part since he's the biggest name in the company), but nothing for Cassidy when @The Definition of Technician clearly pointed out multiple times that his (solo) segments hold up really well with viewers; especially on YouTube.



> *No, less people care.* They're just very loud about their fandom and repeat themselves a hundred times so it seems like there's more fans. This conversation is proof of that.


Nah, more people care than you think. Cassidy wouldn't have had several months of loud crowds all around the country (pre-pandemic) going crazy over him on Dynamite episodes by cheering loudly if people 'didn't' care about him. He also still wouldn't be this popular in the company if "less people cared."



> * I will admit that he's over* in the bubble that is AEW in America with a certain subsection of wrestling fans.


That's all that really needs to be said tbh.

Cassidy being one of the most over acts in the company still (in spite of the pandemic negatively affecting the crowds) isn't news to any wrestling fan with a clue.



> *Worldwide, with the rest of the wrestling fans they think he's a joke and a detriment (one of them) to the company.* The company is a meme company and OC is the perfect man to troll Cornette and nothing else.


You do NOT need speak for the rest of the world though.

I bet that more outside-folks (who either weren't watching wrestling or are new to wrestling) would be entertained by Cassidy's cool antics than they would be upset with him being (somewhat of) a goofy character.



> *Who doesn't get a good reaction from the AEW crowd?* They even responded the way they were supposed to when The Nightmare Collective existed or when Nakazawa covered himself in oil.


The likes of Shawn Spears, Jimmy Havoc (before getting released), Jake Hager, most of the Dark Order members, Kip Sabian, and Private Party either didn't get good crowd reactions or they usually just came out to crickets.

You can quit with this ridiculous hyperbole that the AEW crowds would cheer for 'everyone' when that's really not the case.



> This fan base sucks and AEW will never be cool.


AEW is cool enough though to be a good alternative for many wrestling fans out there who want to be entertained.

However, I think we obviously know what's really certain here. The AEW naysayers truly fucking suck, and *you're *just a primary example of how bad they really are.


----------



## Cult03

DammitChrist said:


> I just LOVE how you're acting like Orange Cassidy had "months" to gain a fan following (even though he already has his supportive fans) when it's barely been ONE month since he won the feud with Chris Jericho, which finally established Cassidy as an (upper-) midcarder; but yet somehow you're acting like he's a 'failure'
> 
> It'll take much more time for Cassidy to catch up with the other AEW fan favorites in terms of social media followers, ESPECIALLY when the guy was unknown to most wrestling fans just over a year ago (which can't be said for the other wrestlers on AEW who are really over.
> 
> Hell, it's already impressive as it is that he's managed to become one of the most popular wrestlers on AEW atm under a short period of time despite starting out as a comic-relief 'manager' who doesn't do much.
> 
> For the record, it's pretty cute that you're only giving credit to Jericho for the good viewership (who definitely did his part since he's the biggest name in the company), but nothing for Cassidy when @The Definition of Technician clearly pointed out multiple times that his (solo) segments hold up really well with viewers; especially on YouTube.
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, more people care than you think. Cassidy wouldn't have had several months of loud crowds all around the country (pre-pandemic) going crazy over him on Dynamite episodes by cheering loudly if people 'didn't' care about him. He also still wouldn't be this popular in the company if "less people cared."
> 
> 
> 
> That's all that really needs to be said tbh.
> 
> Cassidy being one of the most over acts in the company still (in spite of the pandemic negatively affecting the crowds) isn't news to any wrestling fan with a clue.
> 
> 
> 
> You do NOT need speak for the rest of the world though.
> 
> I bet that more outside-folks (who either weren't watching wrestling or are new to wrestling) would be entertained by Cassidy's cool antics than they would be upset with him being (somewhat of) a goofy character.
> 
> 
> 
> The likes of Shawn Spears, Jimmy Havoc (before getting released), Jake Hager, most of the Dark Order members, Kip Sabian, and Private Party either didn't get good crowd reactions or they usually just came out to crickets.
> 
> You can quit with this ridiculous hyperbole that the AEW crowds would cheer for 'everyone' when that's really not the case.
> 
> 
> 
> AEW is cool enough though to be a good alternative for many wrestling fans out there who want to be entertained.
> 
> However, I think we obviously know what's really certain here. The AEW naysayers truly fucking suck, and *you're *just a primary example of how bad they really are.


You literally just said he's only had a month but then say he's been getting massive pops on tv for months now. Fucking pick one. He's had plenty of time to build a bigger following and has not done it.

I don't need to speak for the rest of the world, the numbers (or lack of) do that for me. 

All of those people you listed get reactions from the crowd and positive reactions on here lol.

AEW is not an alternative to WWE in any other way other than name. It is WWE-lite.

Anyway I'm done. Put your money where your mouth is and push for AEW superstar Orange Cassidy to be world champ. If you had any conviction in your defense for him being pushed this hard and for him being popular at all, you'd be ok with it but you and your mates just make excuses because you know exactly how it would look. People already struggle to take this company seriously and it would kill the company. I wasn't always an AEW naysayer, but people shouldn't be quiet because of the bullshit they regularly serve up and the fact their fans try to bully others into enjoying meme wrestling. 

The more I talk about AEW and the more I talk to it's fans the more embarrassed I get thinking that I was once a fan of this company, or believed that this company could challenge anyone. I already post far less on here now and I'm going to try post even less because I no longer have an interest in discussing meme wrestling. Doesn't mean I'm stopping entirely because you guys still need to be called out on your bullshit.


----------



## The Wood

Yeah, I’ve got to confess to having a much lighter interest in talking bad wrestling too. I feel more exhausted as a fan than I ever have.


----------



## Not Lying

Some of you really need to get your head of your ass and realize not everything will be booked 100% for you and your liking, and the stuff you don't like you can just simply skip over.
Just don't come over here acting all high and mighty pretending you know what you're talking about when you skim a lot of segments.

AEW's shown us consistently they do call-backs and tell long stories, if that's not for you, get out now.

AEW told you from the begining they will focus on their hardcore fans.

Cody Rhodes On AEW Wanting To Please Their Fanbase, Not “Casual” Fans



> “So *my focus is always the base that built AEW*,” Cody added. “And that base, if you’ve seen it, you get it. And if you haven’t seen it, it’s just something that you have to see and feel. Bully [Ray] knows what I’m talking about. Because there’s a lot of confidence, that sometimes can get misplaced for arrogance on my half or The Elite’s behalf, but I’ve seen the power. I’ve seen it. And that’s why I want to focus on them first and foremost.”


it's his company and you have no fucking right to tell him how to run it. Especially, if he ws that transparent with you from the beginning.

I'm also not a Gen-Z guy, but this a pretty popular channel run by a Gen-Zer and it lets you see and hear things from their perspective, if you don't want to be locked in your bubble.







Social Media numbers?
Socia media numbers are influenced by how much the wrestlers work on their social media, care about it and promote it.
Zack Rhyder and 2m+ followers, I really doubt he'd be more popular than OC in AEW.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> Some of you really need to get your head of your ass and realize not everything will be booked 100% for you and your liking, and the stuff you don't like you can just simply skip over.
> Just don't come over here acting all high and mighty pretending you know what you're talking about when you skim a lot of segments.
> 
> AEW's shown us consistently they do call-backs and tell long stories, if that's not for you, get out now.
> 
> AEW told you from the begining they will focus on their hardcore fans.
> 
> Cody Rhodes On AEW Wanting To Please Their Fanbase, Not “Casual” Fans
> 
> 
> 
> it's his company and you have no fucking right to tell him how to run it. Especially, if he ws that transparent with you from the beginning.
> 
> I'm also not a Gen-Z guy, but this a pretty popular channel run by a Gen-Zer and it lets you see and hear things from their perspective, if you don't want to be locked in your bubble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Social Media numbers?
> Socia media numbers are influenced by how much the wrestlers work on their social media, care about it and promote it.
> Zack Rhyder and 2m+ followers, I really doubt he'd be more popular than OC in AEW.


That’s such an extreme. No one expects the product to cater to them, but that doesn’t mean it has to be shit either. I don’t know why AEW apologists have this internal belief that a show has to have some bad on it. People skimming over it and switching off is going to be a problem for them. That is not the ideal.


----------



## 304418

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I'm just curious as to what people consider would consider to be an acceptable viewership number to define success?
> 
> The time when AEW got 633k on 6/24, so many people said the company was dying, OC would push them to 500k, and that they were on the road to ultimate death. During that time the shows were consistently doing high 600k-700k
> 
> Now they are pulling mid-high 800k just 3 months later and some are still of the notion that the show sucks and has no potential to grow.
> 
> Do expect numbers to just boom overnight? It's going to take time to get to 1.1-1.2 million viewers on a consistent basis, or is that not even enough? Do we need to be doing NBA Playoff numbers for this thing to be considered "doing well"?


Success is 1M or more, preferably 1.5M or more. And I genuinely believe it will happen more frequently once USA Network tell WWE that either NXT needs to either move nights or go back to the Network.



optikk sucks said:


> You guys are hilarious. anti-OC because he challenges your “gate keeping” and your perception of what pro-wrestling should be.
> 
> OC is over. He makes the company money through being consistently one of the best merch sellers in the company. He has helped draw in 1 million viewers.
> 
> Your perception of pro-wrestling is very outdated to be honest. Should stop worrying about what failed promoter Jim Cornette wants. He’s a failed promoter lol. Where’s Smokey mountain 🤣


Not around, because even though it got higher ratings than WCW when given the opportunity, the execs kept WCW. Even though WCW went under shortly thereafter.


----------



## The Wood

I don’t think USA moves NXT. Far more likely that an exec gets the idea that Dynamite can do better unopposed, so they move it to Tuesday, Thursday or Saturday. It might help them by 200k or so, since they are the floating audience.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> Some of you really need to get your head of your ass and realize not everything will be booked 100% for you and your liking, and the stuff you don't like you can just simply skip over.
> Just don't come over here acting all high and mighty pretending you know what you're talking about when you skim a lot of segments.
> 
> AEW's shown us consistently they do call-backs and tell long stories, if that's not for you, get out now.
> 
> AEW told you from the begining they will focus on their hardcore fans.
> 
> Cody Rhodes On AEW Wanting To Please Their Fanbase, Not “Casual” Fans


Do they tell long stories? Sure, maybe to an extent but how many have been GOOD long term stories. Kenny Vs Hangman for example should've kicked off in a big way on PPV but instead we have this slow plodding story where they just get passive aggressive with one another on commentary. Also, sometimes stories don't have to be long.

AEW said from the beginning they'll focus on their hardcore fans but they also promised a sports style approach that was going to be picky with the WWE guys they bring in. Instead we get All Comedy Wrestling featuring a WWE guy in every single main event in the company since February.


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> Do they tell long stories? Sure, maybe to an extent but how many have been GOOD long term stories. Kenny Vs Hangman for example should've kicked off in a big way on PPV but instead we have this slow plodding story where they just get passive aggressive with one another on commentary. Also, sometimes stories don't have to be long.
> 
> AEW said from the beginning they'll focus on their hardcore fans but they also promised a sports style approach that was going to be picky with the WWE guys they bring in.* Instead we get All Comedy Wrestling featuring a WWE guy in every single main event in the company since February.*


I take you less seriously everytime you bring up this useless stat..


----------



## One Shed

Ultimately, Garbage Trashidy was hired as a middle finger to wrestling fans as he has personally admitted. Why would wrestling fans ever like him? Children and neckbeard types like him, sure. But wrestling fans do not, and most wrestling fans are no longer watching ANY current products. Want to win them back? Present a wrestling product that does not have wooden scripted promos, boring storylines, middle school looking children flipping 800 times, and unintimidating looking bums jumping around with their hands in their pockets. It really is not that hard in theory.


----------



## DammitChrist

Lheurch said:


> Ultimately, Garbage Trashidy


Who? :kobe



> was hired as a middle finger to wrestling fans as he has personally admitted. Why would wrestling fans ever like him?* Children and neckbeard types like him, sure. But wrestling fans do not*, and most wrestling fans are no longer watching ANY current products. Want to win them back? Present a wrestling product that does not have wooden scripted promos, boring storylines, middle school looking children flipping 800 times, and unintimidating looking bums jumping around with their hands in their pockets. It really is not that hard in theory.


I’m neither of those types, and I’m a wrestling fan who likes Orange Cassidy :kobe

Honestly, the actual neckbeard-types/geeks are the ones who despise him, and continuously bitches about him often; which sounds pretty familiar here 🤔 

Anyway, I’m pretty sure that there are plenty of Cassidy supporters who are actual wrestling fans who don’t fall in either category. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are some women who do appreciate him too due to how entertaining he can be.

For the record, the product is really solid overall; so they really shouldn’t dramatically change anything. They just need to keep building up their (long-term) storylines, progress them further so those storylines can stay hot, continue having their wrestlers cut solid promos with limited scripting, and build up their current talents via short-term feuds (along with weekly TV segments/matches too). 

It’s pretty funny how their current roster has plenty of smaller wrestlers who have good workrate, and the company doesn’t seem to be struggling at all with their product in spite of what some bitter (anti-flipping) folks claim on here


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> I take you less seriously everytime you bring up this useless stat..


How is it useless?

Pre-AEW: "We won't be using a heap of ex WWE guys we're going to be picky and won't sign everyone that comes out of there"

Also AEW: "Lets put a WWE guy in the main event every week for 8 months"



DammitChrist said:


> Who? :kobe
> 
> 
> 
> I’m neither of those types, and I’m a wrestling fan who likes Orange Cassidy :kobe
> 
> Honestly, the actual neckbeard-types/geeks are the ones who despise him, and continuously bitches about him often; which sounds pretty familiar here 🤔
> 
> Anyway, I’m pretty sure that there are plenty of Cassidy supporters who are actual wrestling fans who don’t fall in either category. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are some women who do appreciate him too due to how entertaining he can be.
> 
> For the record, the product is really solid overall; so they really shouldn’t dramatically change anything. They just need to keep building up their (long-term) storylines, progress them further so those storylines can stay hot, continue having their wrestlers cut solid promos with limited scripting, and build up their current talents via short-term feuds (along with weekly TV segments/matches too).
> 
> It’s pretty funny how their current roster has plenty of smaller wrestlers who have good workrate, and the company doesn’t seem to be struggling at all with their product in spite of what some bitter (anti-flipping) folks claim on here


Ahhh, the classic "No I'm not, you are!" argument.

My girlfriend saw the brawl between Chris Jericho and Orange Cassidy she commented on how fake it was. That's when Orange was trying to be serious for a moment so she hasn't seen the "entertainment" when he puts his hands in his pockets but she did see him trying to be serious.

What hot stories do they have? Brodie Lee cult leader which just recently saw the entire group be overpowered by a thirty something year old thin woman? Moxley Vs Archer which was shoehorned in because they needed a filler feud until this tournament is done with? The classic Kenny Vs Hangman feud which has been going on for so long that even the most loyal AEW fans were saying "Kick it off already!" in the PPV thread?

And yes, the company kind of is struggling bro wake up. 850,000 is what they do in competition with NXT and without that competition it's just north of a million. That's all that is interested in AEW, just over a million people. Keep in mind they kicked off with 1.5 million people who were willing to give it a shot so even on their best ratings days they can't even get kind of close to that original number. PPV buys remain the same and never go up or down, attendance isn't likely to go up post COVID. They've reached their glass ceiling and whilst it can be profitable and a good wrestling show it's not going to reach the heights that some think it will. We had guys on here (I think it was you actually) claiming that AEW will be selling out stadiums in the next 5 years. It's crazy how overrated this company is.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Who? :kobe
> 
> 
> 
> I’m neither of those types, and I’m a wrestling fan who likes Orange Cassidy :kobe
> 
> Honestly, the actual neckbeard-types/geeks are the ones who despise him, and continuously bitches about him often; which sounds pretty familiar here 🤔
> 
> Anyway, I’m pretty sure that there are plenty of Cassidy supporters who are actual wrestling fans who don’t fall in either category. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are some women who do appreciate him too due to how entertaining he can be.
> 
> For the record, the product is really solid overall; so they really shouldn’t dramatically change anything. They just need to keep building up their (long-term) storylines, progress them further so those storylines can stay hot, continue having their wrestlers cut solid promos with limited scripting, and build up their current talents via short-term feuds (along with weekly TV segments/matches too).
> 
> It’s pretty funny how their current roster has plenty of smaller wrestlers who have good workrate, and the company doesn’t seem to be struggling at all with their product in spite of what some bitter (anti-flipping) folks claim on here


This is devolving into “Nuh-uh, you,” but the people with logic on their side are the critics. Orange Cassidy _doesn’t make sense as a wrestler._ A film’s plot can be objectively convoluted and non-sensical. In the same way, wrestling psychology can just not make sense. OC doesn’t make sense. There is actually a right and wrong answer to this. If you claim to be a wrestling fan and like Cassidy, then I don’t think you “get it.”


----------



## DammitChrist

^
I obviously do get it since I’m not even the one claiming that Cassidy “isn’t” over at all, that he has “anti-charisma”, that he’s a “charisma vacuum”, that AEW is a “shitty” wrestling company with a “mediocre” product, and that fun/entertaining acts (such as Cassidy) are what’s “driving the viewers away). Those false statements have been (foolishly) made by the critics, and yet they’re the ones who are supposed to have ‘logic’ on their side. It’s painfully obvious that those critics just don’t get it at all.



Chip Chipperson said:


> Ahhh, the classic "No I'm not, you are!" argument.
> 
> *My girlfriend saw the brawl between Chris Jericho and Orange Cassidy she commented on how fake it was. That's when Orange was trying to be serious for a moment so she hasn't seen the "entertainment" when he puts his hands in his pockets but she did see him trying to be serious.*


Wow, I didn’t realize your girlfriend (who’s already associated with someone who is extremely and hopelessly biased against Cassidy) represented the entire female wrestling audience. Am I seriously supposed to be impressed by her one observation? 




> What hot stories do they have? Brodie Lee cult leader which just recently saw the entire group be overpowered by a thirty something year old thin woman? Moxley Vs Archer which was shoehorned in because they needed a filler feud until this tournament is done with? The classic Kenny Vs Hangman feud which has been going on for so long that even the most loyal AEW fans were saying "Kick it off already!" in the PPV thread?


I clearly stated that the company needs to focus on booking good/better segments for those feuds in order to keep those stories as hot as possible, which is a valid constructive criticism (instead of the usual destructive criticism that folks like you continue to spout out).



> And yes, the company kind of is struggling bro wake up. 850,000 is what they do in competition with NXT and without that competition it's just north of a million. That's all that is interested in AEW, just over a million people. Keep in mind they kicked off with 1.5 million people who were willing to give it a shot so even on their best ratings days they can't even get kind of close to that original number. PPV buys remain the same and never go up or down, attendance isn't likely to go up post COVID. They've reached their glass ceiling and whilst it can be profitable and a good wrestling show it's not going to reach the heights that some think it will.


That’s pretty funny because I could’ve sworn that AEW was expecting to maintain AT LEAST 500 thousand viewers in order to keep their company alive on TV, but yet they’ve managed to surpass their original expectations. Hell, the viewership of their recent episodes are approaching the pre-pandemic levels; which is progressing from the lower numbers earlier in the summer (obviously because of the pandemic unfortunately affecting their shows). Honestly, I think it’s really you who needs to wake up. They’re really not struggling at all tbh. They just need to keep entertaining their weekly audience in order to maintain their viewership. The company did manage to get over a million viewers just recently, and that’s even during a pandemic too. They still have the potential to continue rising higher the longer the Dynamite stays on the air (especially when the pandemic ends and full crowds are finally able to return).



> *We had guys on here (I think it was you actually) claiming that AEW will be selling out stadiums in the next 5 years.* It's crazy how overrated this company is.


Ah, the classic “let’s use somebody else’s words against a different individual, and pretend like he said them” argument. I didn’t even say that statement AT ALL, you goof 

The lengths that people like you go to in order to underrate AEW. It’s no wonder why we shouldn’t take you that seriously (at all) on here :mj4


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Who? :kobe


A guy no one will remember in a few years.



DammitChrist said:


> I’m neither of those types, and I’m a wrestling fan who likes Orange Cassidy :kobe
> 
> Honestly, the actual neckbeard-types/geeks are the ones who despise him, and continuously bitches about him often; which sounds pretty familiar here 🤔
> 
> Anyway, I’m pretty sure that there are plenty of Cassidy supporters who are actual wrestling fans who don’t fall in either category. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are some women who do appreciate him too due to how entertaining he can be.
> 
> For the record, the product is really solid overall; so they really shouldn’t dramatically change anything. They just need to keep building up their (long-term) storylines, progress them further so those storylines can stay hot, continue having their wrestlers cut solid promos with limited scripting, and build up their current talents via short-term feuds (along with weekly TV segments/matches too).
> 
> It’s pretty funny how their current roster has plenty of smaller wrestlers who have good workrate, and the company doesn’t seem to be struggling at all with their product in spite of what some bitter (anti-flipping) folks claim on here


Again, you rated a guy who has spoken in complete sentences one time on the show (and in a poor middle school science presentation way) an 8/10 in mic skills. That alone discredits you. There is no universe in which that makes sense.

I was in high school during the Attitude Era when it was actually cool to wear an Austin, Rock, or nWo shirt. I cannot imagine anyone actually wearing a Garbage Trashidy shirt or a shirt depicting two allegedly grown adults getting a ride to work in one of their mom's minivans to school today. Can you? They would get stuffed in a locker. Several people post here all the time that "wrestling is just not mainstream anymore" and then do not follow that thought up with the logical conclusion as to WHY that is. This is a big reason. Who is going to have their friends over and say "you guys need to check this shit out" and then a skinny bum starts play kicking fully grown adults? My wife is what you would call a casual fan. She knows who people were back when wrestling was mainstream and when I turn on WWE she says things like "Oh cool Rey Mysterio is still around." When she watched AEW with me and Marko was in the ring she just laughed and said "that child is trying to wrestle?" AEW has a lot going for it but they let too much geeky crap drag them down.

We need to remember MOST wrestling fans are no longer watching any wrestling.

And yes for the record, I also like the product overall. I just hate the crap dragging it down. I thought last Wednesday's first hour was one of the best one's they have ever had and so did @Chip Chipperson by the way. We were both praising it in the live thread. A thread that a lot of the excusers never seem to be in. Who are the real fans here?

It is weird how in EVERY other sport the athletes have gotten bigger, stronger, better but in wrestling the size is declining along with the popularity. Weird huh? If the average guy in the ring looks like the average bum on the street, how impressive is it going to be? I do not want everyone to be trash in the ring but huge like the Ultimate Warrior, but I do not want professional gymnastics with no psychology either.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> ^
> I obviously do get it since I’m not even the one claiming that Cassidy “isn’t” over at all, that he has “anti-charisma”, that he’s a “charisma vacuum”, that AEW is a “shitty” wrestling company with a “mediocre” product, and that fun/entertaining acts (such as Cassidy) are what’s “driving the viewers away). Those false statements have been (foolishly) made by the critics, and yet they’re the ones who are supposed to have ‘logic’ on their side. It’s painfully obvious that those critics just don’t get it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, I didn’t realize your girlfriend (who’s already associated with someone who is extremely and hopelessly biased against Cassidy) represented the entire female wrestling audience. Am I seriously supposed to be impressed by her one observation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I clearly stated that the company needs to focus on booking good/better segments for those feuds in order to keep those stories as hot as possible, which is a valid constructive criticism (instead of the usual destructive criticism that folks like you continue to spout out).
> 
> 
> 
> That’s pretty funny because I could’ve sworn that AEW was expecting to maintain AT LEAST 500 thousand viewers in order to keep their company alive on TV, but yet they’ve managed to surpass their original expectations. Hell, the viewership of their recent episodes are approaching the pre-pandemic levels; which is progressing from the lower numbers earlier in the summer (obviously because of the pandemic unfortunately affecting their shows). Honestly, I think it’s really you who needs to wake up. They’re really not struggling at all tbh. They just need to keep entertaining their weekly audience in order to maintain their viewership. The company did manage to get over a million viewers just recently, and that’s even during a pandemic too. They still have the potential to continue rising higher the longer the Dynamite stays on the air (especially when the pandemic ends and full crowds are finally able to return).
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, the classic “let’s use somebody else’s words against a different individual, and pretend like he said them” argument. I didn’t even say that statement AT ALL, you goof
> 
> The lengths that people like you go to in order to underrate AEW. It’s no wonder why we shouldn’t take you that seriously (at all) on here :mj4


1. Nah, the Mrs is only representative of one person. She does like a little bit of women's wrestling and Total Bella's though so if AEW kicked off some awesome shit that appealed she wouldn't be against watching

Believe it or not me and the Mrs don't discuss AEW over dinner so when she saw Cassidy it was seeing him cold without any previous opinions from me.

2. But none of the stories are hot. Brodie Lee and crew literally already got given their revenge on PPV so nobody is dying to see that blown off. Mox Vs Archer has randomly gone into a Kingston and crew feud, Kenny Vs Hangman has been drawn out for so long, we're about to get Hardy Vs Jericho 2. What's hot about any of this?

3. Who is tuning into Dynamite post pandemic who isn't tuning in right now? They don't have anything that appeals to any casuals and the guys who could like Rusev or Jericho all get wasted in hokey comedy bits. No casual fan is going to say to a mate "I can't wait to tune into Dynamite tonight to see Rusev fuck around with Kip and Penelope"

4. It wasn't you? My bad then. Another AEW Superfan made that suggestion.


----------



## Cult03

DammitChrist said:


> Who? :kobe
> 
> 
> 
> I’m neither of those types, and I’m a wrestling fan who likes Orange Cassidy :kobe
> 
> Honestly, the actual neckbeard-types/geeks are the ones who despise him, and continuously bitches about him often; which sounds pretty familiar here 🤔
> 
> Anyway, I’m pretty sure that there are plenty of Cassidy supporters who are actual wrestling fans who don’t fall in either category. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are some women who do appreciate him too due to how entertaining he can be.
> 
> For the record, the product is really solid overall; so they really shouldn’t dramatically change anything. They just need to keep building up their (long-term) storylines, progress them further so those storylines can stay hot, continue having their wrestlers cut solid promos with limited scripting, and build up their current talents via short-term feuds (along with weekly TV segments/matches too).
> 
> It’s pretty funny how their current roster has plenty of smaller wrestlers who have good workrate, and the company doesn’t seem to be struggling at all with their product in spite of what some bitter (anti-flipping) folks claim on here


Have you seen the crowd members that pop for OC? The ones saying he sucks are definitely not the neckbeards. I'm not really even insinuating that you are the neckbeard type but I'd be happy to prove otherwise in a private message. I have a strong feeling about OC fans being massive dorks, based on evidence shown when crowds were available.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

For the record my girlfriend thinks wrestling is stupid. But she is entertained by OCs antics and will focus on the tv when he’s on.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> For the record my girlfriend thinks wrestling is stupid. But she is entertained by OCs antics and will focus on the tv when he’s on.


Hates wrestling, likes OC. Makes perfect sense to me.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> Hates wrestling, likes OC. Makes perfect sense to me.


Well you don’t only want wrestling neckbeards and “it’s still real to me” nerds to watch right?

OC whether we like it or not, attracts a portion of fans that won’t necessarily watch rasslin otherwise. Good for business whether we like it or not.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> Well you don’t only want wrestling neckbeards and “it’s still real to me” nerds to watch right?
> 
> OC whether we like it or not, attracts a portion of fans that won’t necessarily watch rasslin otherwise. Good for business whether we like it or not.


I would prefer potential new viewers not to tune in, laugh at how dumb something is, then change the channel.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> I would prefer potential new viewers not to tune in, laugh at how dumb something is, then change the channel.


Yeah...so what you’re saying is you want more OC?


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> Yeah...so what you’re saying is you want more OC?


No, I want much less dumb, not more.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> No, I want much less dumb, not more.


You said you liked AE right? If AEW can get that mix of seriousness and “dumb” they’ve got the winning formula. I think they’ve almost nailed that. Admittedly during Covid lockdowns they went OTT on the comedy. But now, they’ve dialled down with the goofiness. OC has got a good place on the card where he can keep the casuals happy without chasing any serious feuds or chasing the world title. And then you’ve got the other portion of the show where the neckbeards and rasslin fans will be happy.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> You said you liked AE right? If AEW can get that mix of seriousness and “dumb” they’ve got the winning formula. I think they’ve almost nailed that. Admittedly during Covid lockdowns they went OTT on the comedy. But now, they’ve dialled down with the goofiness. OC has got a good place on the card where he can keep the casuals happy without chasing any serious feuds or chasing the world title. And then you’ve got the other portion of the show where the neckbeards and rasslin fans will be happy.


Yeah, I loved the AE, but can admit they had dumb stuff during that too. They just had enough great stuff to easily minimize the dumb. They had Trashidy beat their first world champ and top star twice so he is not in a good place on the card. The OC portion of the show IS for the neckbeards. Look at the people who were popping for him when there were crowds. They are the Meltzer neckbeard types that take notes on how many flips a guy does in a match, NOT the casuals. Characters like Austin and Rock brought in casuals, not Doink the Clown.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> You said you liked AE right? If AEW can get that mix of seriousness and “dumb” they’ve got the winning formula. I think they’ve almost nailed that. Admittedly during Covid lockdowns they went OTT on the comedy. But now, they’ve dialled down with the goofiness. OC has got a good place on the card where he can keep the casuals happy without chasing any serious feuds or chasing the world title. And then you’ve got the other portion of the show where the neckbeards and rasslin fans will be happy.


They've toned down the comedy? They legitimately just had a feud where the Babyfaces fought the heels over one of the faces mum's minivan.

Not to mention the new "You guys are weenies!" bullshit

Or the entire Miro debut segment...


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> They've toned down the comedy? They legitimately just had a feud where the Babyfaces fought the heels over one of the faces mum's minivan.
> 
> Not to mention the new "You guys are weenies!" bullshit
> 
> Or the entire Miro debut segment...


I am all about calling out the stupid, but I found the Trent and Sue stuff to be great and perfectly fine, endearing comedy in line with their character. It lead to what JR called on live TV “the greatest street fight“ he’s ever announced and doubled down on Twitter the next day.

That was a case of comedy leading to some awesome, serious drama, but that’s just me.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> For the record my girlfriend thinks wrestling is stupid. But she is entertained by OCs antics and will focus on the tv when he’s on.


Thinks wrestling is stupid, likes Orange Cassidy. Can anyone see the problem with this? 



optikk sucks said:


> Well you don’t only want wrestling neckbeards and “it’s still real to me” nerds to watch right?
> 
> OC whether we like it or not, attracts a portion of fans that won’t necessarily watch rasslin otherwise. Good for business whether we like it or not.


If you put on a good product, you wouldn’t niche yourself like that. Why do people act like wrestling has to be inherently niche? This is defeatist and just wrong.

The people he attracts are not people who like wrestling though. They aren’t going to order a PPV, or subscribe to a streaming service down the line. They’re people who actually hate what wrestling is at its core. This is by your own admission. Can you not see why this is a faulty business plan?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> Thinks wrestling is stupid, likes Orange Cassidy. Can anyone see the problem with this?
> 
> 
> 
> If you put on a good product, you wouldn’t niche yourself like that. Why do people act like wrestling has to be inherently niche? This is defeatist and just wrong.
> 
> The people he attracts are not people who like wrestling though. They aren’t going to order a PPV, or subscribe to a streaming service down the line. They’re people who actually hate what wrestling is at its core. This is by your own admission. Can you not see why this is a faulty business plan?


not at all. She watches the programme when OC is on. Now imagine how many others will do the same. Can you see why more people = good for business?

Arent you the one who talks about OC drawing the "WreStLiNg BubBle"? My girlfriend is certainly not part of that. She is what you would consider the target audience. Used to watch the attitude era with her brother. She's back now basically.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> not at all. She watches the programme when OC is on. Now imagine how many others will do the same. Can you see why more people = good for business?
> 
> Arent you the one who talks about OC drawing the "WreStLiNg BubBle"? My girlfriend is certainly not part of that. She is what you would consider the target audience. Used to watch the attitude era with her brother. She's back now basically.


How is your Mrs "back now" when she only is interested in Orange Cassidy? I'm not buying that any grown woman is watching Dynamite just waiting for the Orange Cassidy appearance.

Also, lets hypothetically say you're 100% spot on and heaps of fans tune in for OC and OC only. It wouldn't be a good thing that Orange is this big massive star if they think the rest of the show is hot garbage.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> not at all. She watches the programme when OC is on. Now imagine how many others will do the same. Can you see why more people = good for business?
> 
> Arent you the one who talks about OC drawing the "WreStLiNg BubBle"? My girlfriend is certainly not part of that. She is what you would consider the target audience. Used to watch the attitude era with her brother. She's back now basically.


I imagine literally two people in the entire world being like that, if you actually just aren't blatantly lying. The point is that it is _not_ more people. It is only attractive to people who _don't watch the other content_ (allegedly). You just fucking said that. If she's not interested in wrestling, can you see how appealing to her would not be a good idea, because she's not going to get hooked on a wrestling product. This is like selling a Spotify account to a deaf person. I cannot believe you do not see how egregiously _not good_ this is. It's not like your missus comes in (allegedly) and the gross number of people go up. It's not like some constantly growing surplus of people. She comes in at the expense of wrestling fans, so now you either have to make a product that appeals to people who don't like wrestling or you've run off the people who do. You must be able to grasp this very basic concept. It's like putting The Wiggles on at a rock concert aimed at adults. You might get one person who genuinely likes Hot Potato, but you're fucking with everyone else's shit -- including the person who actually goes for it, because the rest of the program is alien.

And no, I don't talk about the "wreStLiNg BubBle." My posts are grammatically pretty good and cogent, if I do say so myself. Stop trying to misrepresent people in lieu of being able to defend your incredibly underdeveloped points. The point about the "wrestling bubble" is that people like you -- in the wrestling bubble -- think that he genuinely draws and is over in any _significant sense_ because you go and talk to other NeRDs online who validate that opinion, when they actually represent a very small subsection of an audience. Another example of this was Matt Hardy in 2016, when people said he was over and Dave Meltzer gave him awards for being a "cReATive GeNiuS" that was "cHanGinG the BuSinEsS" when, in reality, not even 400k people watched his antics on TV. People thought it was influential when it was actually swinging and missing. This is a similar thing and it's so frustrating that people can't see it.

The two people who like Orange Cassidy are ironic fans -- who don't like wrestling at all, therefore it's a bad idea to try and get them to be wrestling fans, and hardcore wrestling nerds who still watch this shit because they don't have the taste to be offended by how bad almost all modern content is. The truly smart fans left a long time ago because either their head started to hurt or their hearts started to break. This shit is only niche because people got ran off by this shit.

You had an article posted by Variety that confirmed this shit, as far as a bit of light market research goes. This is not an unsubstantiated claim, in addition to being pretty much common sense.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> For the record my girlfriend thinks wrestling is stupid. But she is entertained by OCs antics and will focus on the tv when he’s on.


my wife likes Rache Chanel


LOL

you never know what is gonna get a casual


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> I imagine literally two people in the entire world being like that, if you actually just aren't blatantly lying. The point is that it is _not_ more people. It is only attractive to people who _don't watch the other content_ (allegedly). You just fucking said that. If she's not interested in wrestling, can you see how appealing to her would not be a good idea, because she's not going to get hooked on a wrestling product. This is like selling a Spotify account to a deaf person. I cannot believe you do not see how egregiously _not good_ this is. It's not like your missus comes in (allegedly) and the gross number of people go up. It's not like some constantly growing surplus of people. She comes in at the expense of wrestling fans, so now you either have to make a product that appeals to people who don't like wrestling or you've run off the people who do. You must be able to grasp this very basic concept. It's like putting The Wiggles on at a rock concert aimed at adults. You might get one person who genuinely likes Hot Potato, but you're fucking with everyone else's shit -- including the person who actually goes for it, because the rest of the program is alien.
> 
> And no, I don't talk about the "wreStLiNg BubBle." My posts are grammatically pretty good and cogent, if I do say so myself. Stop trying to misrepresent people in lieu of being able to defend your incredibly underdeveloped points. The point about the "wrestling bubble" is that people like you -- in the wrestling bubble -- think that he genuinely draws and is over in any _significant sense_ because you go and talk to other NeRDs online who validate that opinion, when they actually represent a very small subsection of an audience. Another example of this was Matt Hardy in 2016, when people said he was over and Dave Meltzer gave him awards for being a "cReATive GeNiuS" that was "cHanGinG the BuSinEsS" when, in reality, not even 400k people watched his antics on TV. People thought it was influential when it was actually swinging and missing. This is a similar thing and it's so frustrating that people can't see it.
> 
> The two people who like Orange Cassidy are ironic fans -- who don't like wrestling at all, therefore it's a bad idea to try and get them to be wrestling fans, and hardcore wrestling nerds who still watch this shit because they don't have the taste to be offended by how bad almost all modern content is. The truly smart fans left a long time ago because either their head started to hurt or their hearts started to break. This shit is only niche because people got ran off by this shit.
> 
> You had an article posted by Variety that confirmed this shit, as far as a bit of light market research goes. This is not an unsubstantiated claim, in addition to being pretty much common sense.


Yea except that it is more people than one that watch OC.
Top merchandise mover. 
brings in 1 million+ - exception being this week when it clashed with NBA. 

meanwhile your MJFs and FTRs lose viewers. Keep TNT happy and encourage OC fans to stick around. That should be an aim for Tony Khan. 

You’re sounding very much like a gatekeeper and it’s not a good thing tbh.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> my wife likes Rache Chanel
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> you never know what is gonna get a casual


Legit true.
People are here telling us what mainstream culture wants without actually understanding current mainstream content. They sound out of touch with society.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

optikk sucks said:


> Legit true.
> People are here telling us what mainstream culture wants without actually understanding current mainstream content. They sound out of touch with society.


Exactly. Like how the hell do YOU know what mainstream culture wants? You don't even understand that your damn self.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Yea except that it is more people than one that watch OC.
> Top merchandise mover.
> brings in 1 million+ - exception being this week when it clashed with NBA.
> 
> meanwhile your MJFs and FTRs lose viewers. Keep TNT happy and encourage OC fans to stick around. That should be an aim for Tony Khan.
> 
> You’re sounding very much like a gatekeeper and it’s not a good thing tbh.


No, _it absolutely shouldn’t_. This would be hazardous as hell for the reasons that are common sense. It completely changes the genre of what you’re doing. As you’ve already said _yourself_, your missus _doesn’t even like wrestling_.

“Top merchandise mover.” What does this even mean? I heard Cult ask this earlier too, and no one ever answered it. This is more shadowy language that completely misses this point. That could be a terrible thing. If OC is moving a thousand shirts, it just means that no one else is selling because wrestling is in a hole. Even if he’s selling well, this can still mean you’re ploughing the wrong audience entirely. I’ve NEVER seen an AEW fan even bother to try to attempt this, because their thinking seems to be as simple as “sells more shirts than Darby Allin = good; more viewers than SCU segment = good.” Ugh, if you can’t see it then I guess you just won’t see it.

MJF and FTR losing viewers is exactly the issue with pushing comedy acts. You make your serious acts less potent and your bullshit becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. You’re actually proving the point. The serious shit gets eroded. MJF used to do really well in viewers. Guess they’ve killed him. Say goodbye to him in a few years time.

“Keep TNT happy.” Empty sentiment. You don’t even know if TNT is “happy” in the first place. This argument has been had before. Them being content and being happy are two different things.

No, I’m not gatekeeping. This is loaded language designed to discredit. Ironically, it’s closer to you gaslighting. Gatekeeping is the danger AEW faces when catering to hardcore fans and people who like the silly shit, giving them license to run off people with a cursory interest in a pro-wrestling alternative. 



optikk sucks said:


> Legit true.
> People are here telling us what mainstream culture wants without actually understanding current mainstream content. They sound out of touch with society.


This is not mainstream culture. 850k-1 million people is not mainstream. Your missus’ alleged bizarre tendencies are not mainstream. You are just throwing a label onto something to slide it in as more acceptable and commonplace than it is.

Being out of touch with society is losing several hundred thousand viewers and getting only a fraction of the audience of Raw and SmackDown every week and still claiming you are the hot shit and “mainstream.”

It’s pretty sad when older people put on the jorts, turn their caps backwards and pretend to be “in touch” with what kids are interested In, Steve Buscemi. We know that casuals don’t like this shit. It’s too goofy. Again, you’ve had actually evidence posted.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Exactly. Like how the hell do YOU know what mainstream culture wants? You don't even understand that your damn self.


i truly genuinely believe there's a disconnect between the west and australasia. i have cousins in NZ and they weird as fuck lol


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> i truly genuinely believe there's a disconnect between the west and australasia. i have cousins in NZ and they weird as fuck lol


This is probably more to do with them being your cousins and less to do with them being from New Zealand. This is also borderline xenophobic.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> This is probably more to do with them being your cousins and less to do with them being from New Zealand. This is also borderline xenophobic.


lmao what


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> No, _it absolutely shouldn’t_. This would be hazardous as hell for the reasons that are common sense. It completely changes the genre of what you’re doing. As you’ve already said _yourself_, your missus _doesn’t even like wrestling_.
> 
> “Top merchandise mover.” What does this even mean? I heard Cult ask this earlier too, and no one ever answered it. This is more shadowy language that completely misses this point. That could be a terrible thing. If OC is moving a thousand shirts, it just means that no one else is selling because wrestling is in a hole. Even if he’s selling well, this can still mean you’re ploughing the wrong audience entirely. I’ve NEVER seen an AEW fan even bother to try to attempt this, because their thinking seems to be as simple as “sells more shirts than Darby Allin = good; more viewers than SCU segment = good.” Ugh, if you can’t see it then I guess you just won’t see it.
> 
> MJF and FTR losing viewers is exactly the issue with pushing comedy acts. You make your serious acts less potent and your bullshit becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. You’re actually proving the point. The serious shit gets eroded. MJF used to do really well in viewers. Guess they’ve killed him. Say goodbye to him in a few years time.
> 
> “Keep TNT happy.” Empty sentiment. You don’t even know if TNT is “happy” in the first place. This argument has been had before. Them being content and being happy are two different things.
> 
> No, I’m not gatekeeping. This is loaded language designed to discredit. Ironically, it’s closer to you gaslighting. Gatekeeping is the danger AEW faces when catering to hardcore fans and people who like the silly shit, giving them license to run off people with a cursory interest in a pro-wrestling alternative.
> 
> 
> 
> This is not mainstream culture. 850k-1 million people is not mainstream. Your missus’ alleged bizarre tendencies are not mainstream. You are just throwing a label onto something to slide it in as more acceptable and commonplace than it is.
> 
> Being out of touch with society is losing several hundred thousand viewers and getting only a fraction of the audience of Raw and SmackDown every week and still claiming you are the hot shit and “mainstream.”
> 
> It’s pretty sad when older people put on the jorts, turn their caps backwards and pretend to be “in touch” with what kids are interested In, Steve Buscemi. We know that casuals don’t like this shit. It’s too goofy. Again, you’ve had actually evidence posted.




























What's the most consistent thing on each of these lists


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> View attachment 91622
> 
> View attachment 91623
> 
> View attachment 91624
> 
> 
> What's the most consistent thing on each of these lists


The ass kicking or laughter your would receive for wearing most of that in front of friends?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> The ass kicking or laughter your would receive for wearing most of that in front of friends?


lmfao

i think i've only ever owned 3 pieces of wrestling merch tbh


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> lmfao
> 
> i think i've only ever owned 3 pieces of wrestling merch tbh


I remember a time when wearing an Austin, Rock, or nWo shirt was considered cool. Imagine wearing a shirt depicting a grown man getting a ride to work in his mom's minivan.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> I remember a time when wearing an Austin, Rock, or nWo shirt was considered cool. Imagine wearing a shirt depicting a grown man getting a ride to work in his mom's minivan.


Looks like album art


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> Looks like album art


Looks to me like two allegedly grown men being infantilized.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> This is probably more to do with them being your cousins and less to do with them being from New Zealand. This is also borderline xenophobic.


Zing!


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> The ass kicking or laughter your would receive for wearing most of that in front of friends?


Any wrestling shirt these days would get you clowned. Even the most badass talent merch like Moxley, Lesnar or McIntyre stuff would ensure in most schools or in front of friends that you get laughed at. Wrestling is no longer cool no matter who’s shirt you’re wearing lol. Buying merch now is just so that you can have them as collectibles. I bought some Thunder Rosa and Hangman stuff to support but I’ll never wear it in public lol.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> Any wrestling shirt these days would get you clowned. Even the most badass talent merch like Moxley, Lesnar or McIntyre stuff would ensure in most schools or in front of friends that you get laughed at. Wrestling is no longer cool no matter who’s shirt you’re wearing lol.


Right, but it would be nice if some company did something to try and change that right? Saying things like "oh well, wrestling is just not cool any more. Might as well just make it more goofy" is such a defeatist attitude. It is 1994/95 all over again.

Brock is still a legit badass and a hold over from the popular era so his stuff is kind of grandfathered in.


----------



## Erik.

Lheurch said:


> Right, but it would be nice if some company did something to try and change that right? Saying things like "oh well, wrestling is just not cool any more. Might as well just make it more goofy" is such a defeatist attitude. It is 1994/95 all over again.
> 
> Brock is still a legit badass and a hold over from the popular era so his stuff is kind of grandfathered in.


But what is cool?

We live in a time where something can be cool for perhaps a month before people move on. Tiger King is a big example of that. An absolute fad for about a month before people moved on to the next thing, stopped with the memes and it was no longer viral.

For wrestling to even be considered cool, they'd have to stumble upon something that become viral and popular. Only to then go and stumble across something else soon after. And again soon after. To stop people from moving onto the next thing. 

Totally different circumstances, totally different culture and totally different time we live in now. So no, it's not 1994/95 again. It's 2020 where wrestling is scorched earth.

To be fair to wrestling though, it IS something that can become meme material - we've seen it with Taker/AJ at Wrestlemania. We saw it with "A little bit of the bubbly" just to name two things. But that's all it's seen as. A meme.


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> But what is cool?


Things that do not get you laughed at by your peers. Sure, those things can vary largely, but having your mom drive you to work in a minivan is, was, and never could possibly be considered cool.


----------



## Erik.

Lheurch said:


> Things that do not get you laughed at by your peers. Sure, those things can vary largely, but having your mom drive you to work in a minivan is, was, and never could possibly be considered cool.


Wrestling can't possibly have ever been cool then, if we're nitpicking.

Though if we are honest, in it's entire existence which spans 100 years, wrestling has probably been cool for less than 10% of it's existence to the viewing public.


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> Wrestling can't possibly have ever been cool then, if we're nitpicking.
> 
> Though if we are honest, in it's entire existence which spans 100 years, wrestling has probably been cool for less than 10% of it's existence.


Really? College people would throw wrestling parties during the Attitude Era. Austin, Rock, nWo were all seen as cool badasses by the mainstream. How is this part even a debate? We have the footage and the numbers.

Wrestling before the 80's might not have been "cool" but it was at least more popular than today and not something that you would be openly mocked for having gone to.


----------



## Erik.

Lheurch said:


> Really? College people would throw wrestling parties during the Attitude Era. Austin, Rock, nWo were all seen as cool badasses by the mainstream. How is this part even a debate? We have the footage and the numbers.
> 
> Wrestling before the 80's might not have been "cool" but it was at least more popular than today and not something that you would be openly mocked for having gone to.


Because you're nitpicking one part of a show and deciding it isn't cool because of it. Whereas I could nitpick Trish barking like a dog was anything but cool. 

Yes, the fad of the MNW was absolutely hot. People got something on easily accessible television they hadn't seen before with some big names from their childhood involved for familiarity and MMA wasn't huge. It was most certainly cool, I lived it and haven't experienced anything like it in terms of wrestling before or since. But the world has also changed drastically since. 

But it was a miniscule moment in the grand scheme of wrestling history. 

Popular and cool are two totally different things. There were still people who thought wrestling was absolutely shit and nothing more than a soap opera about men in tights, even during the late 90s.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Erik. said:


> Because you're nitpicking one part of a show and deciding it isn't cool because of it. Whereas I could nitpick Trish barking like a dog was anything but cool.
> 
> Yes, the fad of the MNW was absolutely hot. People got something on easily accessible television they hadn't seen before with some big names from their childhood involved for familiarity and MMA wasn't huge. It was most certainly cool, I lived it and haven't experienced anything like it in terms of wrestling before or since. But the world has also changed drastically since.
> 
> But it was a miniscule moment in the grand scheme of wrestling history.
> 
> Popular and cool are two totally different things.


Nobody is necessarily expecting another wrestling boom; however, we can at least try and reverse the trend we've seen in recent years and get back to where we were a decade ago, when wrestling was drawing at least double what it is now.


----------



## Erik.

El Hammerstone said:


> Nobody is necessarily expecting another wrestling boom; however, we can at least try and reverse the trend we've seen in recent years and get back to where we were a decade ago, when wrestling was drawing at least double what it is now.


Nearly a million people are watching an alternative show to WWE. Something that absolutely wasn't happening a decade ago. 

I think that's a good start.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Erik. said:


> Nearly a million people are watching an alternative show to WWE. Something that absolutely wasn't happening a decade ago.
> 
> I think that's a good start.


Well over a million people were watching TNA on Spike tv a decade ago.


----------



## Erik.

El Hammerstone said:


> Well over a million people were watching TNA on Spike tv a decade ago.


Unopposed. 

As you say, wrestling was alot more popular. I'm surprised it wasn't more.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> i truly genuinely believe there's a disconnect between the west and australasia. i have cousins in NZ and they weird as fuck lol


What a stupid comment.

First, Australia and New Zealand are completely different countries and whilst we share similarities it'd kind of be the equivalent of saying "American's are stupid because I have cousins in Canada and they're weird as fuck"

Second, you're arguing with three people from Australasia (Myself, Wood, Cult) and two people from North America (Lheurch and Hammerstone). Therefore if Australasia is out of touch based on the views of three Australian's (Another stupid assumption by the way) then North America is also out of touch based on the views of two people from Canada and the United States.




optikk sucks said:


> View attachment 91622
> 
> View attachment 91623
> 
> View attachment 91624
> 
> 
> What's the most consistent thing on each of these lists


This is Pro Wrestling Tees which is a smart mark website. Is this legitimately what people use as evidence that Orange Cassidy is this big merchandise mover because if so that's hilarious.

General public have no idea this site exists bro. The smarks buying up Orange Cassidy's shit doesn't prove that he's over with mainstream audiences.



Lheurch said:


> Really? College people would throw wrestling parties during the Attitude Era. Austin, Rock, nWo were all seen as cool badasses by the mainstream. How is this part even a debate? We have the footage and the numbers.
> 
> Wrestling before the 80's might not have been "cool" but it was at least more popular than today and not something that you would be openly mocked for having gone to.


Wrestling before the 80's was cool. Large regional territories could hit 10,000 people for a big show whilst some would hit those numbers or close to them weekly. The wrestlers were respected, guys were legitimate box office attractions, money was good even for a midcard underneath territory guy, women weren't afraid to be around the neanderthals that enjoy pro wrestling and actually became groupies for the talent whilst perhaps most importantly the fans weren't clamouring for idiocy all in the name of "ironic entertainment"


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> Because you're nitpicking one part of a show and deciding it isn't cool because of it. Whereas I could nitpick Trish barking like a dog was anything but cool.
> 
> Yes, the fad of the MNW was absolutely hot. People got something on easily accessible television they hadn't seen before with some big names from their childhood involved for familiarity and MMA wasn't huge. It was most certainly cool, I lived it and haven't experienced anything like it in terms of wrestling before or since. But the world has also changed drastically since.
> 
> But it was a miniscule moment in the grand scheme of wrestling history.
> 
> Popular and cool are two totally different things. There were still people who thought wrestling was absolutely shit and nothing more than a soap opera about men in tights, even during the late 90s.


I am not deciding that. I like the product overall which is why I watch it. I just hate to see them doing stupid stuff that drags it down. It was the same in the AE when WWF or WCW would do stupid stuff too. But the products then were considered by the culture to be mostly cool and a lot of mainstream sources wanted a piece of it. Popular and cool are different things, but there is usually some substantial overlap. The world has changed a lot, but a lot of what was cool in the AE would still be considered cool today, unlike what was cool in the 80's. No one is wanting to go back to fanny packs, feathered hair, and mullets. WWE could air episodes of RAW from 1998-1999 and probably do better ratings than they do for new shows.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Erik. said:


> Unopposed.
> 
> As you say, wrestling was alot more popular. I'm surprised it wasn't more.


Nope TNA was opposed by ECW. 










TNA iMPACT! Beats ECW's Rating, Angle/Christian, Williams, More - Wrestling Inc.


TNA iMPACT! Beats ECW's Rating, Angle/Christian, Williams, More




www.wrestlinginc.com


----------



## Erik.

Ozell Gray said:


> Nope TNA was opposed by ECW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNA iMPACT! Beats ECW's Rating, Angle/Christian, Williams, More - Wrestling Inc.
> 
> 
> TNA iMPACT! Beats ECW's Rating, Angle/Christian, Williams, More
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlinginc.com


Erm, no it wasn't. 

Impact was on Thursdays. 
ECW was on Tuesdays.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> Looks to me like two allegedly grown men being infantilized.


reminded me of this absolutely iconic album


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

El Hammerstone said:


> Well over a million people were watching TNA on Spike tv a decade ago.





Erik. said:


> Erm, no it wasn't.
> 
> Impact was on Thursdays.
> ECW was on Tuesdays.


To add to this:

AEW - 1 year into its existence
TNA - 4 years into its Spike TV run

and cable TV subscriptions peaked in 2009 - has gone down significantly since then. 

AEW doing pretty well all things considered. 🤔


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> To add to this:
> 
> AEW - 1 year into its existence
> TNA - 4 years into its Spike TV run
> 
> and cable TV subscriptions peaked in 2009 - has gone down significantly since then.
> 
> AEW doing pretty well all things considered. 🤔


top 5 show is top 5 show

🤷‍♂️


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> Right, but it would be nice if some company did something to try and change that right? Saying things like "oh well, wrestling is just not cool any more. Might as well just make it more goofy" is such a defeatist attitude. It is 1994/95 all over again.
> 
> Brock is still a legit badass and a hold over from the popular era so his stuff is kind of grandfathered in.


Like what though? What could AEW possibly do that would make wrestling "cool" again or make wearing wrestling shirts in public "cool" in 2020? Have Moxley do more death matches? Have Omega put on wrestling clinics with a visiting Okada on national TV? An invasion angle? The hottest storyline possible involving Cody and Moxley? Have someone cut promos on the level of Flair and Macho Man? None of that would work or even cause a small boom. It would just be hot with the fans that are still watching. 

Despite the comedy, AEW is already moving pretty fast in trying to make it cool again if that's their goal, considering their international growth and U.S. popularity. The best they can do is try to catch up to WWE with hot storylines, but to get to the point where its cool on a national level to wear wrestling shirts in public probably won't happen for the most part. The wrestling industry is shunned after 20 years of car crash TV and the breaking of kayfabe. I hate to have a defeatist attitude but that ship has sailed back when the Attitude Era died.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Erik. said:


> Erm, no it wasn't.
> 
> Impact was on Thursdays.
> ECW was on Tuesdays.


ECW had Thursday night shows too so TNA wasn't unopposed all the time.






__





WWE's "ECW on Sci-Fi" won't air tonight






prowrestling.net






ECW got bumped quite a few times and moved to Thursdays on several occasions. Regardless Dynamite beating NXT is meaningless just like it was meaningless when Impact was beating ECW. It's WWE's third brand (WWE's afterthought brand) just like ECW was. AEW isn't doing anything TNA didn't already do. 

Get low viewership and ratings ✓

Beat WWE's meaningless third brand ✓

Constantly take shots at WWE ✓

WWE not caring about them ✓

This is literally TNA all over again.


----------



## rexmundi

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1313535122226868224


----------



## Not Lying

rexmundi said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1313535122226868224


In before "where's the proof"


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> Like what though? What could AEW possibly do that would make wrestling "cool" again or make wearing wrestling shirts in public "cool" in 2020? Have Moxley do more death matches? Have Omega put on wrestling clinics with a visiting Okada on national TV? An invasion angle? The hottest storyline possible involving Cody and Moxley? Have someone cut promos on the level of Flair and Macho Man? None of that would work or even cause a small boom. It would just be hot with the fans that are still watching.
> 
> Despite the comedy, AEW is already moving pretty fast in trying to make it cool again if that's their goal, considering their international growth and U.S. popularity. The best they can do is try to catch up to WWE with hot storylines, but to get to the point where its cool on a national level to wear wrestling shirts in public probably won't happen for the most part. The wrestling industry is shunned after 20 years of car crash TV and the breaking of kayfabe. I hate to have a defeatist attitude but that ship has sailed back when the Attitude Era died.


It is not any one thing, and if it was easy, it would be done already. I just hate the defeatist attitude I keep hearing of "oh well it is never going to be popular anyway, why even try?" I hate that. It is like saying in 1995 "Have someone cut promos like Flair and Savage did in the 80's? That would never work. Push the kid in the blue streamers or that bald guy WCW fired? That would never work!" One thing they could try doing is LESS dumb stuff though. Maybe not have grown men being driven around by one of their mom's in a minivan? Maybe not have a small child dancing and getting moves in on grown adults? Maybe just MAYBE that would cause people to roll their eyes less at least. But no it is "well they might as well do the stupid stuff because wrestling is niche anyway" and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Kayfabe was broken a long, long time before the Attitude Era. If the ship has sailed, build a new ship.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> Like what though? What could AEW possibly do that would make wrestling "cool" again or make wearing wrestling shirts in public "cool" in 2020? Have Moxley do more death matches? Have Omega put on wrestling clinics with a visiting Okada on national TV? An invasion angle? The hottest storyline possible involving Cody and Moxley? Have someone cut promos on the level of Flair and Macho Man? None of that would work or even cause a small boom. It would just be hot with the fans that are still watching.


It's simple and it comes back to the Variety Magazine study. The people don't want to be insulted and treated like they're stupid. Just like myself, Cult, Wood, Lheurch, Hammerstone and many others have preached all year.

Have guys who look like they can kick some ass fighting other guys who look like they could fuck someone up and then have them destroy one another on PPV/TV

Have realistic stories that people are emotionally invested in. Nobody gives a fuck about The Bucks beating up announcers and if this were real TK would've suspended them by now and a tag team would've stepped in no doubt

Have guys fight over manly realistic shit. Archer and Jake have been giving innocent people shit for months so Mox steps in and says "try and bully me motherfucker", MJF in a vicious tirade insults Jungle Boys deceased father resulting in a blood feud, Starks shits all over Darby and his journey to AEW, Jericho's big thirty year anniversary celebration is interrupted by Miro who is tired of Jericho and his domination of AEW TV and smashes a "little bit of the bubbly" over Jericho's head.

You can even still do comedy as well, Marko Stunt gets called a kissless virgin by Kip Sabian which offends Marko. Marko enlists the help of Joey Janela (because despite being ugly and untalented he landed Penelope) and Sonny Kiss (gay men generally know what women want). Marko dates some fatties unsuccessfully but rumour has it that he's landed a totally gorgeous woman from a foreign land. Kip and Penelope bully Marko saying that changing hands doesn't make it foreign until Marko points to the entrance revealing he's finally dating and has lost his virginity to Australia's Tenille Dashwood. Kip shouts "God damn it! Janella strikes again!" leading to a tag match on PPV pitting Marko and Tenille against Kip and Penelope.

Nobody wants feuds over minivans, orange juice and teleportation.

Tony, call me, I'm ready to execute the Marko Vs Kip storyline.


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> a tag match on PPV pitting Marko and Tenille against Kip and Penelope.


If this happens now, I am blaming you.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's simple and it comes back to the Variety Magazine study. The people don't want to be insulted and treated like they're stupid. Just like myself, Cult, Wood, Lheurch, Hammerstone and many others have preached all year.
> 
> Have guys who look like they can kick some ass fighting other guys who look like they could fuck someone up and then have them destroy one another on PPV/TV
> 
> Have realistic stories that people are emotionally invested in. Nobody gives a fuck about The Bucks beating up announcers and if this were real TK would've suspended them by now and a tag team would've stepped in no doubt
> 
> Have guys fight over manly realistic shit. Archer and Jake have been giving innocent people shit for months so Mox steps in and says "try and bully me motherfucker", MJF in a vicious tirade insults Jungle Boys deceased father resulting in a blood feud, Starks shits all over Darby and his journey to AEW, Jericho's big thirty year anniversary celebration is interrupted by Miro who is tired of Jericho and his domination of AEW TV and smashes a "little bit of the bubbly" over Jericho's head.
> 
> You can even still do comedy as well, Marko Stunt gets called a kissless virgin by Kip Sabian which offends Marko. Marko enlists the help of Joey Janela (because despite being ugly and untalented he landed Penelope) and Sonny Kiss (gay men generally know what women want). Marko dates some fatties unsuccessfully but rumour has it that he's landed a totally gorgeous woman from a foreign land. Kip and Penelope bully Marko saying that changing hands doesn't make it foreign until Marko points to the entrance revealing he's finally dating and has lost his virginity to Australia's Tenille Dashwood. Kip shouts "God damn it! Janella strikes again!" leading to a tag match on PPV pitting Marko and Tenille against Kip and Penelope.
> 
> Nobody wants feuds over minivans, orange juice and teleportation.
> 
> Tony, call me, I'm ready to execute the Marko Vs Kip storyline.


I would seriously MARK THE FUCK OUT if Miro did that to Jericho.


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> my wife likes Rache Chanel
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> you never know what is gonna get a casual


Well, lets never use her opinion on wrestling ever again then.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Lheurch said:


> If this happens now, I am blaming you.


To be honest I wouldn't mind it. Kip and Penelope as bullies suits them and gives them something better to do whilst Tenille in AEW is something I've wanted.

If Marko could play a sympathetic bully victim well it'd be fun and could lead to Penelope Vs Tenille

Plus, the thought of Marko Stunt losing his virginity to Tenille Dashwood in ten seconds flat is hilarious


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> Yea except that it is more people than one that watch OC.
> Top merchandise mover.
> brings in 1 million+ - exception being this week when it clashed with NBA.
> 
> meanwhile your MJFs and FTRs lose viewers. Keep TNT happy and encourage OC fans to stick around. That should be an aim for Tony Khan.
> 
> You’re sounding very much like a gatekeeper and it’s not a good thing tbh.


Allegedly. Wheres the proof that he's a top merch seller. How much is he making the company? Does everyone else suck at moving merch? There's too many variables. 
Brings in 1 million because Jericho is involved or because people expect Jericho to be involved. 1 million people do not care about OC and that's proven with the only physical number you can see that can't be manipulated by people with agendas, social media numbers. He's not popular.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> View attachment 91622
> 
> View attachment 91623
> 
> View attachment 91624
> 
> 
> What's the most consistent thing on each of these lists


No numbers hey, fancy that? What's consistent? They're all crap shirts that nobody who ever wants to speak to a woman would wear.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TKO Wrestling said:


> I would seriously MARK THE FUCK OUT if Miro did that to Jericho.


Yeah Miro tearing through The Inner Circle as Jericho ducks and hides him as a cowardly heel would be good TV.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I just don't think wrestling CAN be cool with women presented as they are. You have to remember they were sex objects when wrestling was at it's peak popularity.


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> To be honest I wouldn't mind it. Kip and Penelope as bullies suits them and gives them something better to do whilst Tenille in AEW is something I've wanted.
> 
> If Marko could play a sympathetic bully victim well it'd be fun and could lead to Penelope Vs Tenille
> 
> Plus, the thought of Marko Stunt losing his virginity to Tenille Dashwood in ten seconds flat is hilarious


Fire Marko and Kip. Have Penelope vs Tenille. Everyone wins. Marko losing his virginity would be the least believable angle in wrestling history. I would sooner believe the Gobbledy Gooker was a real turkey.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Lheurch said:


> Fire Marko and Kip. Have Penelope vs Tenille. Everyone wins. Marko losing his virginity would be the least believable angle in wrestling history. I would sooner believe the Gobbledy Gooker was a real turkey.


Maybe Marko has a winning personality that won Tenille over. 

I'm all in on this idea now. AEW and their shows have corrupted me


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> Maybe Marko has a winning personality that won Tenille over.
> 
> I'm all in on this idea now. AEW and their shows have corrupted me


I am worried about you. You may need to visit a local medical facility


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> View attachment 91622
> 
> View attachment 91623
> 
> View attachment 91624
> 
> 
> What's the most consistent thing on each of these lists


You’re either deliberately ignoring the point or you are just unable to grasp it. There is no real data here. How many did they sell? Three? Did everyone else sell two items? You cannot be serious posting this and thinking it is a good point. 



Erik. said:


> But what is cool?
> 
> We live in a time where something can be cool for perhaps a month before people move on. Tiger King is a big example of that. An absolute fad for about a month before people moved on to the next thing, stopped with the memes and it was no longer viral.
> 
> For wrestling to even be considered cool, they'd have to stumble upon something that become viral and popular. Only to then go and stumble across something else soon after. And again soon after. To stop people from moving onto the next thing.
> 
> Totally different circumstances, totally different culture and totally different time we live in now. So no, it's not 1994/95 again. It's 2020 where wrestling is scorched earth.
> 
> To be fair to wrestling though, it IS something that can become meme material - we've seen it with Taker/AJ at Wrestlemania. We saw it with "A little bit of the bubbly" just to name two things. But that's all it's seen as. A meme.


Cool is not as hard to grasp as you’re making it out to be. It’s easier to be cool now than it’s ever been, as minds seem to be more open thanks to the internet and global communication. Your Tiger King example is really bizarre, honestly. It’s not that Tiger King became “uncool.” People just watched it



Erik. said:


> Wrestling can't possibly have ever been cool then, if we're nitpicking.
> 
> Though if we are honest, in it's entire existence which spans 100 years, wrestling has probably been cool for less than 10% of it's existence to the viewing public.


The more AEW fans talk the more I am convinced they, in general, know ZERO about wrestling history. This is post is, no offence, such a load of shit. Wrestling used to draw way more per capita than it does now, and even more than it did during the Attitude era when it was considered “cool.“ Memphis wrestling used to do about as well on TV as AEW does now, to put it into perspective. One city versus a national broadcast.

You’re focusing on the word “cool” too much. The people interested in that are the people who think Orange Cassidy as a meme can draw. How about just not being fucking offensive and scaring leople



Lheurch said:


> Really? College people would throw wrestling parties during the Attitude Era. Austin, Rock, nWo were all seen as cool badasses by the mainstream. How is this part even a debate? We have the footage and the numbers.
> 
> Wrestling before the 80's might not have been "cool" but it was at least more popular than today and not something that you would be openly mocked for having gone to.


It’s amazing how many people don’t understand just how welded into people’s instincts wrestling would be if it didn’t spit in your face. We’ve been living vicariously through violence since the dawn of time. Barbaric? Yes. But the idea that this needs to be niche is fucking insane. Wrestling is closer to humanity than just about any form of entertainment, yet it constantly fucks itself out of contention b



Erik. said:


> Nearly a million people are watching an alternative show to WWE. Something that absolutely wasn't happening a decade ago.
> 
> I think that's a good start.


About 2 million people used to watch TNA, which was barely even an alternative. Seriously, yo



optikk sucks said:


> To add to this:
> 
> AEW - 1 year into its existence
> TNA - 4 years into its Spike TV run
> 
> and cable TV subscriptions peaked in 2009 - has gone down significantly since then.
> 
> AEW doing pretty well all things considered. 🤔


Why do people think that having four years of television history makes you any more viable than having one? Seriously, can someone explain this logically? TV doesn’t work like this, otherwise The Simpsons, SVU and many soap operas would be the hottest things on television. Holy shit, Raw would be getting 12 million viewers. Longevity is not correlated to popularity in television. 



prosperwithdeen said:


> Like what though? What could AEW possibly do that would make wrestling "cool" again or make wearing wrestling shirts in public "cool" in 2020? Have Moxley do more death matches? Have Omega put on wrestling clinics with a visiting Okada on national TV? An invasion angle? The hottest storyline possible involving Cody and Moxley? Have someone cut promos on the level of Flair and Macho Man? None of that would work or even cause a small boom. It would just be hot with the fans that are still watching.
> 
> Despite the comedy, AEW is already moving pretty fast in trying to make it cool again if that's their goal, considering their international growth and U.S. popularity. The best they can do is try to catch up to WWE with hot storylines, but to get to the point where its cool on a national level to wear wrestling shirts in public probably won't happen for the most part. The wrestling industry is shunned after 20 years of car crash TV and the breaking of kayfabe. I hate to have a defeatist attitude but that ship has sailed back when the Attitude Era died.


Just don’t insult people. No to the death matches. They insult your intelligence. They’re tasteless and Moxley will grab a baseball bat...then decide to grate your face with it. Stupid.

No to Omega. No charisma and an alienating personality. Okada is a talented guy, but he can’t carry Omega to something that would have widespread appeal. Okada vs. a gritty worker would be better. Okada vs. Brock? That’s got potential.

No to Cody vs. Mox. Cody is pretentious and Mox is obnoxious. I mean, it could work on a certain level, but it’s not going to be “cool.”

Yes, having someone who could talk like Flair or Savage would help.

AEW is not growing, haha. You also don’t need to follow the car crash. Do your own thing and do it well. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> It's simple and it comes back to the Variety Magazine study. The people don't want to be insulted and treated like they're stupid. Just like myself, Cult, Wood, Lheurch, Hammerstone and many others have preached all year.
> 
> Have guys who look like they can kick some ass fighting other guys who look like they could fuck someone up and then have them destroy one another on PPV/TV
> 
> Have realistic stories that people are emotionally invested in. Nobody gives a fuck about The Bucks beating up announcers and if this were real TK would've suspended them by now and a tag team would've stepped in no doubt
> 
> Have guys fight over manly realistic shit. Archer and Jake have been giving innocent people shit for months so Mox steps in and says "try and bully me motherfucker", MJF in a vicious tirade insults Jungle Boys deceased father resulting in a blood feud, Starks shits all over Darby and his journey to AEW, Jericho's big thirty year anniversary celebration is interrupted by Miro who is tired of Jericho and his domination of AEW TV and smashes a "little bit of the bubbly" over Jericho's head.
> 
> You can even still do comedy as well, Marko Stunt gets called a kissless virgin by Kip Sabian which offends Marko. Marko enlists the help of Joey Janela (because despite being ugly and untalented he landed Penelope) and Sonny Kiss (gay men generally know what women want). Marko dates some fatties unsuccessfully but rumour has it that he's landed a totally gorgeous woman from a foreign land. Kip and Penelope bully Marko saying that changing hands doesn't make it foreign until Marko points to the entrance revealing he's finally dating and has lost his virginity to Australia's Tenille Dashwood. Kip shouts "God damn it! Janella strikes again!" leading to a tag match on PPV pitting Marko and Tenille against Kip and Penelope.
> 
> Nobody wants feuds over minivans, orange juice and teleportation.
> 
> Tony, call me, I'm ready to execute the Marko Vs Kip storyline.


Yep. Pretty simple. And it’s pretty sad that being able to use common sense and respond to actual data gathered makes you a genius in today’s wrestling world.


----------



## Not Lying

Jesus this thread is full of delusional people who live in the past. What absolute horse-shit this ratings thread has turned to.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Definition of Technician said:


> Jesus this thread is full of delusional people who live in the past. What absolute horse-shit this ratings thread has turned to.


Orange Cassidy “not” being over/popular at all, and Kenny Omega having “no” charisma is without a doubt the SHITTIEST take I’ve read by these people this week.

Plus, this week just started too 😂


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> Jesus this thread is full of delusional people who live in the past. What absolute horse-shit this ratings thread has turned to.


Ah yes, the old "I don't want to have intelligent debate so I'll make a personal attack" post


----------



## Not Lying

DammitChrist said:


> Orange Cassidy “not” being over/popular at all, and Kenny Omega having “no” charisma is without a doubt the SHITTIEST take I’ve read by these people this week.
> 
> Plus, this week just started too 😂


We living in reality while some geeks live in a delusional fantasy world of "what could be". 
Fact is AEW has grown in popularity (ratings) after being down a couple of months which means things are working. They're unopposed numbers are around 1m and they're reached 1.2m for certain segments.
If they grow at a slow pace like TNA 2006-2009 and don't fuck up and overpay overrated talent like TNA in 2010, they'll be fine and continue to grow. This is without even considering the bump we'll see once fans are back in full capacity.


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> Ah yes, the old "I don't want to have intelligent debate so I'll make a personal attack" post


Sure, I don't want to engage with whinning trolls who do mental gymnastics to dispute reality.


----------



## Not Lying

Here's to some ratings talk

Average of 
April: 696K, 0.256 
May: 727K, 0.275
June: 703k, 0.255
July: 773K, 0.296
August: 815K, 0.32
September: 852K, 0.33 ( without including the 12:30 AM episode on Tuesday, it's *906K, 0.344*)

If you can't see the growth between June-Now you're fucking delusional, that's a 20%-28% (28% w/o including the special episode) increase in viewership.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

DammitChrist said:


> Orange Cassidy “not” being over/popular at all, and Kenny Omega having “no” charisma is without a doubt the SHITTIEST take I’ve read by these people this week.
> 
> Plus, this week just started too 😂


And they have to nerve to act arrogant as fuck about it too. As if they're right. The CLOWNERY.


----------



## imthegame19

El Hammerstone said:


> Well over a million people were watching TNA on Spike tv a decade ago.


Which shows how many more people watched cable traditional way back then and finding other ways to watch it these days. It's also why Raw is a top ranked show every Monday still despite having 3 million less viewers. I was big TNA fan 10 years ago and fact is they were never a top 15 to 20 show most weeks. 


The company had very little buzz or exposure outside of wrestling fan bubble. That's why they did desperate stuff like throw big money at Hogan and move to Monday Night etc. AEW in year one of tv blowing them away and are one of TNT top programming. You would never see Hollywood trade like Variety putting article about TNA. That's only because they are a top 10 rated show on TNT.


----------



## imthegame19

Erik. said:


> Unopposed.
> 
> As you say, wrestling was alot more popular. I'm surprised it wasn't more.


The funny thing about wrestling being less popular and ratings being down etc. Yet WWE is making more money then ever before. AEW is doing well desperate global pandemic during their first year of tv. The wrestlers are making more money for working less days then before. 


All because tv networks value high end weekly wrestling show. So much that two networks are giving WWE more money then ever before to air there wrestling shows. While TNT is paying AEW more then any other non WWE show ever before.


So when people waste their time on the internet saying well 10 years ago WWE did these numbers. Or well TNA did 1.6 million viewers a week etc. So WWE sucks, AEW not even as good as TNA blah blah wrestling sucks etc.


Guess what do you think Vince McMahon would rather have 4.6m viewers watching Raw making pennies for tv rights. Or 1.6m people watching Raw and making 260 million per year. Along with 2 million people watching Smackdown on network tv making another 200 million a year. Do you think Tony Khan rather have 800,000 to 900,000 viewers per week. Or TNA 1.6 million viewers making pennies from Spike. Or 45 million per year plus ad revenue split. That's kept his company going and allowed them to keep signing new talent despite pandemic and no live gates.




So people can dislike whoever companies are pushing. And say chasing away fans etc. But as long as business is good. Well all these opinions on outdated numbers vs today is pointless. When these companies are making SO much more money at lesser numbers. It's really hilarious and very stupid argument when you look at it this way lol.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

imthegame19 said:


> The funny thing about wrestling being less popular and ratings being down etc. Yet WWE is making more money then ever before. AEW is doing well desperate global pandemic during their first year of tv. The wrestlers are making more money for working less days then before.
> 
> 
> All because tv networks value high end weekly wrestling show. So much that two networks are giving WWE more money then ever before to air there wrestling shows. While TNT is paying AEW more then any other non WWE show ever before.
> 
> 
> So when people waste their time on the internet saying well 10 years ago WWE did these numbers. Or well TNA did 1.6 million viewers a week etc. So WWE sucks, AEW not even as good as TNA blah blah wrestling sucks etc.
> 
> 
> Guess what do you think Vince McMahon would rather have 4.6m viewers watching Raw making pennies for tv rights. Or 1.6m people watching Raw and making 260 million per year. Along with 2 million people watching Smackdown on network tv making another 200 million a year. Do you think Tony Khan rather have 800,000 to 900,000 viewers per week. Or TNA 1.6 million viewers making pennies from Spike. Or 45 million per year plus ad revenue split. That's kept his company going and allowed them to keep signing new talent despite pandemic and no live gates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So people can dislike whoever companies are pushing. And say chasing away fans etc. But as long as business is good. Well all these opinions on outdated numbers vs today is pointless. When these companies are making SO much more money at lesser numbers. It's really hilarious and very stupid argument when you look at it this way lol.


truth pipebomb


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> Jesus this thread is full of delusional people who live in the past. What absolute horse-shit this ratings thread has turned to.


Ah yes, claim that smart people who base their opinions “live in the past.” All these people who subscribe to germ theory live in the past too. I’m sure I’ve seen Always Sunny do a take-off of this.



DammitChrist said:


> DammitChrist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Orange Cassidy “not” being over/popular at all, and Kenny Omega having “no” charisma is without a doubt the SHITTIEST take I’ve read by these people this week.
> 
> Plus, this week just started too 😂
> 
> 
> 
> No one even says that shit. There are always conditions on it. Sycophants will see what they want to see — good and bad.
> 
> 
> 
> The Definition of Technician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Definition of Technician said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's to some ratings talk
> 
> Average of
> April: 696K, 0.256
> May: 727K, 0.275
> June: 703k, 0.255
> July: 773K, 0.296
> August: 815K, 0.32
> September: 852K, 0.33 ( without including the 12:30 AM episode on Tuesday, it's *906K, 0.344*)
> 
> If you can't see the growth between June-Now you're fucking delusional, that's a 20%-28% (28% w/o including the special episode) increase in viewership.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s down from the 1.4 million they started with. But that doesn’t fit your narrative. The difference between 900k and 700k doesn’t impress me and is completely in-line with where they usually are. Wanna talk delusion?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> Ah yes, claim that smart people who base their opinions “live in the past.” All these people who subscribe to germ theory live in the past too. I’m sure I’ve seen Always Sunny do a take-off of this.


nobody cares about impressing a troll hater 😂 but to any logical person this 20% bump made them top 5 cable show.
You're just so sad and hate to see others succeed #staymad.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> nobody cares about impressing a troll hater 😂 but to any logical person this 20% bump made them top 5 cable show.
> You're just so sad and hate to see others succeed #staymad.


Pack it up Wood, you can't compete with the staymad hashtag. He's got you there.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Pack it up Wood, you can't compete with the staymad hashtag. He's got you there.


Bro!

I literally laughed out loud when I read that. Fucking unintentional comedy is the best. Hah


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> Bro!
> 
> I literally laughed out loud when I read that. Fucking unintentional comedy is the best. Hah


Just like everyone laughs out loud at you when you psycho-analyze the Rhodes 😂


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> Just like everyone laughs out loud at you when you psycho-analyze the Rhodes 😂


Not quite as bad as you and your mates psycho analysing posters on this forum based on nothing.

Leave Bdon alone, the man often has a point when it comes to Cody RHHHodes

Tell em' Bdon!


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> Not quite as bad as you and your mates psycho analysing posters on this forum *based on nothing.*
> 
> Leave Bdon alone, the man often has a point when it comes to Cody RHHHodes
> 
> Tell em' Bdon!


Based on you whining 90% of the time on a new product, wishing it loses in ratings, deny their success. Instead of moving on with your life on something completely new which you shouldn't have emotional attachment to since you hate so much, you've made it some sort of mission to deny their success and shit on them at every turn. And you wonder why people call you a troll hater. 
So, yeah, safe to say you are a miserable nitpicker.


----------



## bdon

The Definition of Technician said:


> Just like everyone laughs out loud at you when you psycho-analyze the Rhodes 😂


Tell me I’m wrong. Lol


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> Based on you whining 90% of the time on a new product, wishing it loses in ratings, deny their success. Instead of moving on with your life on something completely new which you shouldn't have emotional attachment to since you hate so much, you've made it some sort of mission to deny their success and shit on them at every turn. And you wonder why people call you a troll hater.
> So, yeah, safe to say you are a miserable nitpicker.


We’re they a top five show last year too? And top five to who, anyway? Top five to Showbuzz. Are they top five to TNT in terms of ad revenue? Unverified. Then you’ve also got the split.

Also, what the fuck is a troll hater? Is that someone who hates trolls? Because I can identify with that.

Big surprise, but people who give a shit about wrestling (in Chip’s case, actually gotten involved in it) often hold it to a standard. When it fails to impress people, they’re going to be underwhelmed. Your standards being low doesn’t invalidate the standards of anyone else.

1 million people and a 0.ass in the demo doesn’t mean shit in a wrestling context. Raw averages out better with a shitty product stretched over three hours. Much better. The general fan doesn’t give a shit about this. Stop trying to make it a thing. If you enjoy it, enjoy it. But don’t try and ruin the day of others who have standards. If you don’t want to engage, don’t. But AEW is bad and 906k isn’t hot butter. 



bdon said:


> Tell me I’m wrong. Lol


I’ll admit right now that you were totally right. We’ve disagreed on stuff before — you’re not a hater I’m mindlessly trying to defend. But you were right correct about Cody Rhodes.

When was the last time someone from the other “extreme” camp able to admit a change in their position? You want to talk about mental gymnastics, imagine the work it must be to make a show less than half as popular as SmackDown _on a Friday night_ into something _cool._ I guess it’s so cool no one even knows about it, right?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> Based on you whining 90% of the time on a new product, wishing it loses in ratings, deny their success. Instead of moving on with your life on something completely new which you shouldn't have emotional attachment to since you hate so much, you've made it some sort of mission to deny their success and shit on them at every turn. And you wonder why people call you a troll hater.
> So, yeah, safe to say you are a miserable nitpicker.


I said last weeks episode was good though.


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> It is not any one thing, and if it was easy, it would be done already. I just hate the defeatist attitude I keep hearing of "oh well it is never going to be popular anyway, why even try?" I hate that. It is like saying in 1995 "Have someone cut promos like Flair and Savage did in the 80's? That would never work. Push the kid in the blue streamers or that bald guy WCW fired? That would never work!" One thing they could try doing is LESS dumb stuff though. Maybe not have grown men being driven around by one of their mom's in a minivan? Maybe not have a small child dancing and getting moves in on grown adults? Maybe just MAYBE that would cause people to roll their eyes less at least. But no it is "well they might as well do the stupid stuff because wrestling is niche anyway" and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
> 
> Kayfabe was broken a long, long time before the Attitude Era. If the ship has sailed, build a new ship.


I'm not a defeatist type person in general, but I can see the state of the wrestling industry relative to where the world is going and the amount of content we now have available to consume. You can't have the Bella Twins exposing the industry left and right on national TV and expect people to buy into the illusion of kayfabe. You also have talent on Twitch doing the same thing. Pair that with actual combat sports in the UFC and actual non-kayfabe sports like football or basketball and its a recipe for disaster as far as hoping for another boom. This is before we even talk about the way people view wrestling in itself in 2020. Especially after all the damage that WWE has done.

Honestly man, I don't really care for there to be another boom or for wrestling to reach the popularity it has reached in the Attitude Era. It makes no difference to our lives. Yes I want AEW to succeed and they are finding plenty of it already, but they don't need to make wrestling "cool" again to entertain the wrestling audience that stayed around. As long as I am being genuinely entertained at a high level every week they're fine by me.That audience that stayed around across all promotions (WWE, NWA, AEW, NJPW, ROH) are more than enough to keep the industry thriving, as it has been that way for the last 15 years. There are also A LOT more people watching than we think. WWE is making more money than they have ever made, and the perception based off of cable ratings is that they're dying, when that is not the case at all.



Chip Chipperson said:


> It's simple and it comes back to the Variety Magazine study. The people don't want to be insulted and treated like they're stupid. Just like myself, Cult, Wood, Lheurch, Hammerstone and many others have preached all year.
> 
> Have guys who look like they can kick some ass fighting other guys who look like they could fuck someone up and then have them destroy one another on PPV/TV
> 
> Have realistic stories that people are emotionally invested in. Nobody gives a fuck about The Bucks beating up announcers and if this were real TK would've suspended them by now and a tag team would've stepped in no doubt
> 
> Have guys fight over manly realistic shit. Archer and Jake have been giving innocent people shit for months so Mox steps in and says "try and bully me motherfucker", MJF in a vicious tirade insults Jungle Boys deceased father resulting in a blood feud, Starks shits all over Darby and his journey to AEW, Jericho's big thirty year anniversary celebration is interrupted by Miro who is tired of Jericho and his domination of AEW TV and smashes a "little bit of the bubbly" over Jericho's head.
> 
> You can even still do comedy as well, Marko Stunt gets called a kissless virgin by Kip Sabian which offends Marko. Marko enlists the help of Joey Janela (because despite being ugly and untalented he landed Penelope) and Sonny Kiss (gay men generally know what women want). Marko dates some fatties unsuccessfully but rumour has it that he's landed a totally gorgeous woman from a foreign land. Kip and Penelope bully Marko saying that changing hands doesn't make it foreign until Marko points to the entrance revealing he's finally dating and has lost his virginity to Australia's Tenille Dashwood. Kip shouts "God damn it! Janella strikes again!" leading to a tag match on PPV pitting Marko and Tenille against Kip and Penelope.
> 
> Nobody wants feuds over minivans, orange juice and teleportation.
> 
> Tony, call me, I'm ready to execute the Marko Vs Kip storyline.


I'll throw you a bone and give you a hypothetical. Imagine if those people in that study actually stopped watching because of excessive comedy and they all of a sudden came back because it was non-existent on the show. Say AEW took OC off the show like you want them to do. Let's also say WWE's entire RAW and SD audience jumped ship to watching solely AEW, and at the same time AEW had their own 2.5 million viewers a week, including all streamers. Let's say they then go ahead to book the most perfect content and story lines for a year straight. (perfection in story line is subjective by the way). You're telling me that at that point, wrestling will become hugely popular on a national level again? Yeah OK my guy. Not happening. Across all platforms and promotions in the US including streamers, you probably have about 10-12 million weekly watchers in total. That's where we're at. The only new fans you're gonna make are the younger generation that will grow up watching the product like we did in the Attitude Era.

Have guys fight over manly realistic shit and kill each other on PPV? They have been doing this all along my guy. Lol again Chipperson, you ignore everything and you choose to focus on the 10% of bad. So I guess there was nothing manly about:

-Omega/Moxley
-Omega/Jericho
-PAC/Omega
-Archer/Cody
-Guevara/Matt
-Cody/MJF
-Cody/Brodie
-Moxley/MJF
-Cage/Moxley
-Darby/Starks
-Lucha Bros/Bucks
-Hangman/PAC
-Almost everything else

All of that was bullshit huh?


----------



## The Wood

Yes, you can. You had people thinking Adam Cole and Pat McAfee was a shoot. I still have people telling me that Daniel Bryan and The Miz don’t like each other. Hell, people still remember the CM Punk “pipe-bomb” when it was just a promo. Jericho got worked by Brock and Orton.

People are just too arrogant to believe they can be worked. Want to think they are “too smart.” Then they’ll go and vote against their own interests, make poor investments and believe the most ridiculous shit. People are as credulous as they’ve ever been. Possibly even more so since they think they know everything.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I think Late Night Tuesday Dynamite beats tonights rating & viewership totals. Pence/Harris feels like a big one.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

TKO Wrestling said:


> I think Late Night Tuesday Dynamite beats tonights rating & viewership totals. Pence/Harris feels like a big one.


Do you think so? this would be the first time Dynamite would get sub 600k, no? I'd say 650k.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

optikk sucks said:


> Do you think so? this would be the first time Dynamite would get sub 600k, no? I'd say 650k.


I hope I am wrong but, yeah, I think it could be a slaughter tonight. Combo of Broken Matt 2016 Impact viewership and modern NXT demo. Scary night ahead.


----------



## Prosper

TKO Wrestling said:


> I think Late Night Tuesday Dynamite beats tonights rating & viewership totals. Pence/Harris feels like a big one.


Pence/Harris is gonna get nasty here in the U.S. for sure. I don't think they drop below 800K regardless though.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

prosperwithdeen said:


> Pence/Harris is gonna get nasty here in the U.S. for sure. I don't think they drop below 800K regardless though.


Will speak volumes for AEWs growth if that becomes true.


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> I think Late Night Tuesday Dynamite beats tonights rating & viewership totals. Pence/Harris feels like a big one.


More interest in them than Trump and Biden ?


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> Will speak volumes for AEWs growth if that becomes true.


No, it doesn’t. Who the fuck watches these debates on television who would have otherwise been watching AEW? People need to get their mind around there being some sort of shared audience between wrestling and news programs.

A news program doing well means that there are more people watching the news, not that fewer people watched wrestling. A wrestling program doing well against the news doesn’t mean that it stole fogey conservatives away. They’re not causally linked.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> More interest in them than Trump and Biden ?


This is a big one because next weeks debate may not happen. This could be that deciding one. It’s also the first proper test for Kamala.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TKO Wrestling said:


> I think Late Night Tuesday Dynamite beats tonights rating & viewership totals. Pence/Harris feels like a big one.


i dunno - 7 hrs of dvr afterwards also count to live numbers

so, people might check it out after

750 i recon

0.30


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> I'll throw you a bone and give you a hypothetical. Imagine if those people in that study actually stopped watching because of excessive comedy and they all of a sudden came back because it was non-existent on the show. Say AEW took OC off the show like you want them to do. Let's also say WWE's entire RAW and SD audience jumped ship to watching solely AEW, and at the same time AEW had their own 2.5 million viewers a week, including all streamers. Let's say they then go ahead to book the most perfect content and story lines for a year straight. (perfection in story line is subjective by the way). You're telling me that at that point, wrestling will become hugely popular on a national level again? Yeah OK my guy. Not happening. Across all platforms and promotions in the US including streamers, you probably have about 10-12 million weekly watchers in total. That's where we're at. The only new fans you're gonna make are the younger generation that will grow up watching the product like we did in the Attitude Era.
> 
> Have guys fight over manly realistic shit and kill each other on PPV? They have been doing this all along my guy. Lol again Chipperson, you ignore everything and you choose to focus on the 10% of bad. So I guess there was nothing manly about:
> 
> -Omega/Moxley
> -Omega/Jericho
> -PAC/Omega
> -Archer/Cody
> -Guevara/Matt
> -Cody/MJF
> -Cody/Brodie
> -Moxley/MJF
> -Cage/Moxley
> -Darby/Starks
> -Lucha Bros/Bucks
> -Hangman/PAC
> -Almost everything else
> 
> All of that was bullshit huh?


Appreciate you throwing me a bone bro, I really needed that.

No, I don't think we'd reach Attitude Era numbers because a fair few people are gone and will never come back no matter what and to be honest a large amount of people have tried AEW, seen it as comedic meme wrestling and given up on it.

Let me give a slight variant, lets say day 1 of AEW they always offered the serious sports style approach that they initially promised with a professional team in the backstage area who knew what they're doing. Dynamite Episode 1 you get your stars out there in matches, you start introducing characters that the world has never seen before via compelling and exciting vignettes (MJF, Darby, Jungle Boy, Sammy, Page, Hammerstone, Fatu, Eli Drake, Killer Kross, Scarlett Bourdeaux etc) and giving their back stories, you start planting seeds for feuds, you have some celebrities (Real ones, not Billy Mitchell) ringside who talk about how different this is and how high the energy is rah rah rah. You sell this shit as absolutely must watch television.

Instead of hiring the likes of Marko Stunt, Orange Cassidy (I don't mind him as a manager tbh) or Joey Janella you hire men who look like they can fight. NWA World Heavyweight Champion Nick Aldis is on your debut episode here looking for Cody after promising he'd turn up to interrupt the party and ruin Cody's big night, Moxley is savagely beaten down backstage and we don't know by who (Later revealed to be MJF in the coming weeks), instead of Nyla and Riho showing us what the AEW women's division is about we instead get Tenille Dashwood teaming with Tessa Blanchard to take on Serena Deeb and Thunder Rosa.

You get into your main event with four of your biggest stars, Jericho cheats to win via Hager interference which leads to a 4 on 3 beatdown. Babyfaces are looking like they're done for until Miseria Cantare by AFI hits and CM Punk walks out. Inner Circle are in shock, Punk approaches the ring as JR gives us a hearty old "Oh what?! Now?! Ladies and Gentlemen we're out of time but make sure you tune in next week or follow our social media for an update on this situation! Goodnight everybody!" and we fade with Punk about to enter the ring.

Bam, the 1.5 million people you originally attracted to this Dynamite are hooked and they're telling their friends. "Fuck, have you heard about this AEW show? They had some really good matches last night but CM Punk fucking turned up to confront Chris Jericho!"

So for Episode 2 (Which dropped 300,000 people in this reality) you have multiple hooks. One, we're showing the footage of CM Punk and Chris Jericho confrontation (Footage will show Punk fighting alongside The Elite to clear the ring as Jericho runs). Two, we've got CM Punk in ring for the first time in 4 and a half years and he's going to talk (Leading to a microphone battle with Jericho which would've been awesome), three we have updates on Moxley, four we've got the debut of one of the guys we built up last week (I'd probably go with MJF myself), five we've got Cody who has requested some time to talk about Nick Aldis etc etc.

Hypothetically the rating goes to 1.8 million people and as you build and build it would eventually hit a number that would remain stagnant (Probably the 2.0 million mark) but that's when you start bringing in the likes of Mike Tyson or other A-List celebrities to get their fanbases watching and then you put on a show featuring all this amazing talent and people go "Whoa, wrestling is pretty fucking awesome again" and they stick with it at least casually.

---

Sounds good yeah? Unfortunately due to AEW's lack of professionalism they missed out on both CM Punk (Due to text messaging an offer instead of red carpet treatment) AND Goldberg (Reasons unknown but he would've fit in really well with the Jericho segment also but of course created less buzz). For whatever reason they aren't interested in the Hammerstones, Fatus, Aldis', Eli Drakes, Killer Kross' etc and we get comedy hour.

So what happens? Show becomes "Can miss" (Even the biggest AEW fans in this section are okay with missing it live), your talent becomes diluted (Jericho is a great example) and you have a few standouts in what is a poor to below average show. Good recruitment, good management and a plan could've seen AEW become competitive with the WWE right away but instead it's been pissed away by stupid people.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Appreciate you throwing me a bone bro, I really needed that.
> 
> No, I don't think we'd reach Attitude Era numbers because a fair few people are gone and will never come back no matter what and to be honest a large amount of people have tried AEW, seen it as comedic meme wrestling and given up on it.
> 
> Let me give a slight variant, lets say day 1 of AEW they always offered the serious sports style approach that they initially promised with a professional team in the backstage area who knew what they're doing. Dynamite Episode 1 you get your stars out there in matches, you start introducing characters that the world has never seen before via compelling and exciting vignettes (MJF, Darby, Jungle Boy, Sammy, Page, Hammerstone, Fatu, Eli Drake, Killer Kross, Scarlett Bourdeaux etc) and giving their back stories, you start planting seeds for feuds, you have some celebrities (Real ones, not Billy Mitchell) ringside who talk about how different this is and how high the energy is rah rah rah. You sell this shit as absolutely must watch television.
> 
> Instead of hiring the likes of Marko Stunt, Orange Cassidy (I don't mind him as a manager tbh) or Joey Janella you hire men who look like they can fight. NWA World Heavyweight Champion Nick Aldis is on your debut episode here looking for Cody after promising he'd turn up to interrupt the party and ruin Cody's big night, Moxley is savagely beaten down backstage and we don't know by who (Later revealed to be MJF in the coming weeks), instead of Nyla and Riho showing us what the AEW women's division is about we instead get Tenille Dashwood teaming with Tessa Blanchard to take on Serena Deeb and Thunder Rosa.
> 
> You get into your main event with four of your biggest stars, Jericho cheats to win via Hager interference which leads to a 4 on 3 beatdown. Babyfaces are looking like they're done for until Miseria Cantare by AFI hits and CM Punk walks out. Inner Circle are in shock, Punk approaches the ring as JR gives us a hearty old "Oh what?! Now?! Ladies and Gentlemen we're out of time but make sure you tune in next week or follow our social media for an update on this situation! Goodnight everybody!" and we fade with Punk about to enter the ring.
> 
> Bam, the 1.5 million people you originally attracted to this Dynamite are hooked and they're telling their friends. "Fuck, have you heard about this AEW show? They had some really good matches last night but CM Punk fucking turned up to confront Chris Jericho!"
> 
> So for Episode 2 (Which dropped 300,000 people in this reality) you have multiple hooks. One, we're showing the footage of CM Punk and Chris Jericho confrontation (Footage will show Punk fighting alongside The Elite to clear the ring as Jericho runs). Two, we've got CM Punk in ring for the first time in 4 and a half years and he's going to talk (Leading to a microphone battle with Jericho which would've been awesome), three we have updates on Moxley, four we've got the debut of one of the guys we built up last week (I'd probably go with MJF myself), five we've got Cody who has requested some time to talk about Nick Aldis etc etc.
> 
> Hypothetically the rating goes to 1.8 million people and as you build and build it would eventually hit a number that would remain stagnant (Probably the 2.0 million mark) but that's when you start bringing in the likes of Mike Tyson or other A-List celebrities to get their fanbases watching and then you put on a show featuring all this amazing talent and people go "Whoa, wrestling is pretty fucking awesome again" and they stick with it at least casually.
> 
> ---
> 
> Sounds good yeah? Unfortunately due to AEW's lack of professionalism they missed out on both CM Punk (Due to text messaging an offer instead of red carpet treatment) AND Goldberg (Reasons unknown but he would've fit in really well with the Jericho segment also but of course created less buzz). For whatever reason they aren't interested in the Hammerstones, Fatus, Aldis', Eli Drakes, Killer Kross' etc and we get comedy hour.
> 
> So what happens? Show becomes "Can miss" (Even the biggest AEW fans in this section are okay with missing it live), your talent becomes diluted (Jericho is a great example) and you have a few standouts in what is a poor to below average show. Good recruitment, good management and a plan could've seen AEW become competitive with the WWE right away but instead it's been pissed away by stupid people.


I was digging your version of a premiere episode until I realized you never said Omega’s name, much less that he should have been the first champ. Lmao


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> I was digging your version of a premiere episode until I realized you never said Omega’s name, much less that he should have been the first champ. Lmao


Jericho always should have been first. He was the star everyone knew. You use your biggest star and highest paid guy to make the next guy. What they did with Jericho after he lost is the problem.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> I was digging your version of a premiere episode until I realized you never said Omega’s name, much less that he should have been the first champ. Lmao


Omega was in the main event that night, I reference him briefly as "Top 4 stars" which he was at the time.

I do agree with Lheurch though in that the first ever AEW Champion should have been Jericho and in my version of events it'd have been CM Punk beating him on the same PPV that Mox did. Punk could've dropped it to a heel Omega around August.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Omega was in the main event that night, I reference him briefly as "Top 4 stars" which he was at the time.
> 
> I do agree with Lheurch though in that the first ever AEW Champion should have been Jericho and in my version of events it'd have been CM Punk beating him on the same PPV that Mox did. Punk could've dropped it to a heel Omega around August.


I was just fucking off, pretending to only care about Omega as I’m sure many believe me guilty of being. Heh.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Appreciate you throwing me a bone bro, I really needed that.
> 
> No, I don't think we'd reach Attitude Era numbers because a fair few people are gone and will never come back no matter what and to be honest a large amount of people have tried AEW, seen it as comedic meme wrestling and given up on it.
> 
> Let me give a slight variant, lets say day 1 of AEW they always offered the serious sports style approach that they initially promised with a professional team in the backstage area who knew what they're doing. Dynamite Episode 1 you get your stars out there in matches, you start introducing characters that the world has never seen before via compelling and exciting vignettes (MJF, Darby, Jungle Boy, Sammy, Page, Hammerstone, Fatu, Eli Drake, Killer Kross, Scarlett Bourdeaux etc) and giving their back stories, you start planting seeds for feuds, you have some celebrities (Real ones, not Billy Mitchell) ringside who talk about how different this is and how high the energy is rah rah rah. You sell this shit as absolutely must watch television.
> 
> Instead of hiring the likes of Marko Stunt, Orange Cassidy (I don't mind him as a manager tbh) or Joey Janella you hire men who look like they can fight. NWA World Heavyweight Champion Nick Aldis is on your debut episode here looking for Cody after promising he'd turn up to interrupt the party and ruin Cody's big night, Moxley is savagely beaten down backstage and we don't know by who (Later revealed to be MJF in the coming weeks), instead of Nyla and Riho showing us what the AEW women's division is about we instead get Tenille Dashwood teaming with Tessa Blanchard to take on Serena Deeb and Thunder Rosa.
> 
> You get into your main event with four of your biggest stars, Jericho cheats to win via Hager interference which leads to a 4 on 3 beatdown. Babyfaces are looking like they're done for until Miseria Cantare by AFI hits and CM Punk walks out. Inner Circle are in shock, Punk approaches the ring as JR gives us a hearty old "Oh what?! Now?! Ladies and Gentlemen we're out of time but make sure you tune in next week or follow our social media for an update on this situation! Goodnight everybody!" and we fade with Punk about to enter the ring.
> 
> Bam, the 1.5 million people you originally attracted to this Dynamite are hooked and they're telling their friends. "Fuck, have you heard about this AEW show? They had some really good matches last night but CM Punk fucking turned up to confront Chris Jericho!"
> 
> So for Episode 2 (Which dropped 300,000 people in this reality) you have multiple hooks. One, we're showing the footage of CM Punk and Chris Jericho confrontation (Footage will show Punk fighting alongside The Elite to clear the ring as Jericho runs). Two, we've got CM Punk in ring for the first time in 4 and a half years and he's going to talk (Leading to a microphone battle with Jericho which would've been awesome), three we have updates on Moxley, four we've got the debut of one of the guys we built up last week (I'd probably go with MJF myself), five we've got Cody who has requested some time to talk about Nick Aldis etc etc.
> 
> Hypothetically the rating goes to 1.8 million people and as you build and build it would eventually hit a number that would remain stagnant (Probably the 2.0 million mark) but that's when you start bringing in the likes of Mike Tyson or other A-List celebrities to get their fanbases watching and then you put on a show featuring all this amazing talent and people go "Whoa, wrestling is pretty fucking awesome again" and they stick with it at least casually.
> 
> ---
> 
> Sounds good yeah? Unfortunately due to AEW's lack of professionalism they missed out on both CM Punk (Due to text messaging an offer instead of red carpet treatment) AND Goldberg (Reasons unknown but he would've fit in really well with the Jericho segment also but of course created less buzz). For whatever reason they aren't interested in the Hammerstones, Fatus, Aldis', Eli Drakes, Killer Kross' etc and we get comedy hour.
> 
> So what happens? Show becomes "Can miss" (Even the biggest AEW fans in this section are okay with missing it live), your talent becomes diluted (Jericho is a great example) and you have a few standouts in what is a poor to below average show. Good recruitment, good management and a plan could've seen AEW become competitive with the WWE right away but instead it's been pissed away by stupid people.


Sure thing - make show blander, predictable, basically like every wrestling show that ever was & ppl have stopped watching and ratings will go up.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Sure thing - make show blander, predictable, basically like every wrestling show that ever was & ppl have stopped watching and ratings will go up.


Predictability is not necessarily a bad thing in wrestling. The sooner people learn this, the better off everyone will be.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Predictability is not necessarily a bad thing in wrestling. The sooner people learn this, the better off everyone will be.


You're predictable but that's not good


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> You're predictable but that's not good


Rugger, bugger, baby bumpers. Bet you weren’t expecting that.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> You're predictable but that's not good


If only there was some actual content to respond to. Smart people here need to repeat themselves a lot.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> If only there was some actual content to respond to. Smart people here need to repeat themselves a lot.


So predictable... Wait


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Pippen94 said:


> So predictable... Wait


Got Alts private messaging me now 😂


----------



## Chip Chipperson

How is CM Punk walking out on the debut episode of Dynamite predictable lol


----------



## Cult03

Chip Chipperson said:


> How is CM Punk walking out on the debut episode of Dynamite predictable lol


I mean, we all expected it with all the hints and comments the EVP's were doing before the debut show. It was about a month in when we stopped falling for their shit


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Got Alts private messaging me now 😂


Is that an accusation aimed at me? Because that’s total bullshit and the mods can easily determine that. Apologise. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> How is CM Punk walking out on the debut episode of Dynamite predictable lol


It would have been too good, hence “predictable.” Can’t do an exciting show. People will expect that. This is why Miro came out as a comedy character instead of a bad-ass. Ironically, that is the new predictable though. Hopefully this means they will start actually trying soon to shock people.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> Is that an accusation aimed at me? Because that’s total bullshit and the mods can easily determine that. Apologise.
> 
> 
> 
> It would have been too good, hence “predictable.” Can’t do an exciting show. People will expect that. This is why Miro came out as a comedy character instead of a bad-ass. Ironically, that is the new predictable though. Hopefully this means they will start actually trying soon to shock people.


huh what makes you think I’m talking about you man. You are not a lame idiot.


----------



## omaroo

Could be their worst rating in their history thus far.

Next week looks most stacked card for quite some time. But dont think they will breach 1 mil plus mainly because of NXT.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> No, it doesn’t. Who the fuck watches these debates on television


AEW has ALWAYS been hurt by huge news nights. But this is the first time they faced something big like this since they got on their roll.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

The Wood said:


> No, it doesn’t. Who the fuck watches these debates on television who would have otherwise been watching AEW? People need to get their mind around there being some sort of shared audience between wrestling and news programs.


NXT and AEW got killed the time they had big news competition on 12/18. 2/19 also had big news competition, and AEW with an absolutely loaded show did an underwhelming number.


----------



## EmbassyForever

770k - 0.31, imo


----------



## El Hammerstone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1314297000519700482


----------



## Kentucky34

Not good at all. 

Only RAW is holding steady right now.


----------



## rbl85

Next week 900+K


----------



## Alright_Mate

Expected drop due to presidential competition.

However for the quality of last nights show, they should be thankful they managed 753k.


----------



## Erik.

rbl85 said:


> Next week 900+K


They'd have to be disappointed if they didn't get 900k+

3 title matches on the line, anniversary show.


----------



## Not Lying

That number is higher than their average for the months of April/May/June, They've def grown in viewership since, and i'm expecting a huge drop 1st hour to 2nd.


----------



## Kentucky34

The debate wasn't major competition.

They should have done more than 800k.


----------



## Prosper

El Hammerstone said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1314297000519700482


I knew the debate would hurt but this is a decent number considering they did well in the demo. The U.S. is all over the place right now with the way we are handling COVID, riots, police, etc and with Trump getting Covid I would bet that this one drew as much as last weeks if not more. 2nd hour probably lost 300k+ people. Next week I do see a big number though with it being the Anniversary and with that strong lineup.


----------



## rbl85

The debate did i think 11M


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> The debate did i think 11M


Looks like this weeks did 50 million, last weeks did 73 million. No way they didn’t lose viewers to the debate both weeks.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Yikes, a 47% drop year over year with absolutely no competition to affect them. Not to mention, it was a special episode.

Company seems to be on it's way out.


----------



## Cult03

Man, there's some shit on every week that affects the ratings for AEW. The show is never going to be on television by itself. Other things happening is not an excuse for low ratings.


----------



## Not Lying

Man, there's always some people looking to make a pretty good number look bad. The show is never not going to have a bunch of pathetic low-life haters who watch religiously and can't wait tp spin anything as "not enough" or "bad".


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i dunno - 7 hrs of dvr afterwards also count to live numbers
> 
> so, people might check it out after
> 
> 750 i recon
> 
> 0.30


....... i know my shit


----------



## bdon

A presidential debate is a reason for losing roughly a 100k viewers.


----------



## Prosper

Cult03 said:


> Man, there's some shit on every week that affects the ratings for AEW. The show is never going to be on television by itself. Other things happening is not an excuse for low ratings.


A presidential debate in the current US climate is a pretty huge reason my guy. Make this argument for sports but not this. Especially when it’s playing on like 7 different channels simultaneously and half the country is talking about it online in real time. Last week even I watched the debate live over Dynamite because I had people over wanting to watch and chat about the hilarity that ensued.


----------



## Kentucky34

Cult03 said:


> Man, there's some shit on every week that affects the ratings for AEW. The show is never going to be on television by itself. Other things happening is not an excuse for low ratings.


Exactly.

The problem with AEW is that they don't have a Cena, Austin or Rollins to draw in the viewers consistently and grow their audience. Jericho and Ambrose are very good, but not mega stars. MJF is just another Miz.

I think their ceiling is 1 million viewers.


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> A presidential debate in the current US climate is a pretty huge reason my guy. Make this argument for sports but not this. Especially when it’s playing on like 7 different channels simultaneously and half the country is talking about it online in real time. Last week even I watched the debate live over Dynamite because I had people over wanting to watch and chat about the hilarity that ensued.


People simply don’t know what they don’t know.

Unless you’ve lived in the US and experienced a presidential election, you don’t understand. Thousands watching a livestream on social media, some on YouTube, every major cable news and local channels broadcasting it, etc.


----------



## Cult03

prosperwithdeen said:


> A presidential debate in the current US climate is a pretty huge reason my guy. Make this argument for sports but not this. Especially when it’s playing on like 7 different channels simultaneously and half the country is talking about it online in real time. Last week even I watched the debate live over Dynamite because I had people over wanting to watch and chat about the hilarity that ensued.


Cool, my guy. What is the reason next week? Or 10 weeks ago? Or 6 months ago? There's always a fucking excuse about why AEW isn't getting the best number possible. They're never going to run opposed, ever. It's time to move on from that excuse onto the next one.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> People simply don’t know what they don’t know.
> 
> Unless you’ve lived in the US and experienced a presidential election, you don’t understand. Thousands watching a livestream on social media, some on YouTube, every major cable news and local channels broadcasting it, etc.


No, I get it. But this excuse has been used every week since AEW began


----------



## Kentucky34

Cult03 said:


> No, I get it. But this excuse has been used every week since AEW began


Yeah it gets a bit boring.


----------



## La Parka

If sports and political debates ever stop being brodcast on televison, LOOK OUT! AEW IS COMMIN FOR YOUR RATINGS


----------



## Prosper

Kentucky34 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> The problem with AEW is that they don't have a Cena, Austin or Rollins to draw in the viewers consistently and grow their audience. Jericho and Ambrose are very good, but not mega stars. MJF is just another Miz.
> 
> I think their ceiling is 1 million viewers.


Seth Rollins? Lol you’re a clown. Cena drove away more adult fans than anyone in wresting history. MJF is cutting hot promos on Dynamite and had a great match with Moxley with a likely Jericho feud upcoming and the Miz is running around with a lunchbox on SD being a jobber with Morrison. You should delete your account after that post.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> No, I get it. But this excuse has been used every week since AEW began


And they’ve been gradually increasing their ceiling and floors, so yes, the presidential debate is a large reason for the drop in viewership.


----------



## Prosper

Cult03 said:


> Cool, my guy. What is the reason next week? Or 10 weeks ago? Or 6 months ago? There's always a fucking excuse about why AEW isn't getting the best number possible. They're never going to run opposed, ever. It's time to move on from that excuse onto the next one.


Well you already know where I stand with it. I am well aware that the cable audience is not an indicator of everyone who is watching so when it comes to cable viewers I have no agenda in trying to make excuses to defend any drops. I just call it like I see it and the debate definitely had a huge effect on cable viewers who are flipping through channels and seeing the debate on 2 out of 5 channels they flip through.


----------



## Kentucky34

prosperwithdeen said:


> Seth Rollins? Lol you’re a clown. Cena drove away more adult fans than anyone in wresting history. MJF is cutting hot promos on Dynamite and had a great match with Moxley with a likely Jericho feud upcoming and the Miz is running around with a lunchbox on SD being a jobber with Morrison. You should delete your account after that post.


I don't like Cena but he at least drew viewers. Rollins has been the biggest draw in the industry since 2015. 

Guys like MJF, Jericho and Moxley are popular on forums but are not massive names. They are performers who work with the big draws, but are not big draws themselves. 

Until AEW land one of the big draws or create one themselves they will draw between 700k and 900k.


----------



## 3venflow

It's a good rating (especially the demo) considering the debate was on. The quarter hours will be interesting, I imagine the first hour did well.

I love how people are acting like the debate had no impact - it hurt both AEW and NXT.

9/2 did 928k, 9/9 did 1.02m - both unopposed. Then opposed, 9/16 did 886k, 9/23 did 835k, 9/30 did 866k.

Compare to April when AEW went three weeks in a row doing less than 700k, it's clear the company is in a good place ratings-wise despite what some people want to believe. The demos especially continue to impress. Between 4/1 and 7/22, AEW only did over 0.30 once in the key demo. Since then, all nine shows have done over 0.30, even yesterday's.


----------



## Prosper

Kentucky34 said:


> I don't like Cena but he at least drew viewers. Rollins has been the biggest draw in the industry since 2015.
> 
> Guys like MJF, Jericho and Moxley are popular on forums but are not massive names. They are performers who work with the big draws, but are not big draws themselves.
> 
> Until AEW land one of the big draws or create one themselves they will draw between 700k and 900k.


Cena only appealed to children, but grown adults had no interest in his character because it was extremely PG and his promo content was mostly geared at kids. It’s the same with OC, he’s popular with the younger generation but most adults would rather watch talent who act like men like a Moxley, Cody, MJF, or Hangman.

Rollins is not even close to being any kind of draw. I don’t know how you cooked that up in your mind but Rollins is on the same level as everyone else in WWE.

Big names are only made after years of booking that build them up to that point. The guys who you consider big names were not always big names. AEW is creating their own stars. They don’t need to sign someone just for the sake of getting more cable viewers as they are doing superb in TNT’s eyes, they should only do it for the sake of making their show better. For example signing someone like Lesnar would be pointless given the way he works. Cable viewers would increase but in the long run it would probably do more harm given that he probably would want to do as least as possible.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Kentucky34 said:


> Cena, Austin or *Rollins*


Bruh


----------



## 3venflow

Isn't Raw currently doing its worst ratings ever with McIntyre, Owens, Orton and the 'Monday Night Messiah' Rollins?

Rollins is the most boring of the Shield, Mox and Reigns are finally superstars but Rollins still feels inauthentic and bland to me.

The VP debate had 50,000,000 viewers. At least Kamala is still drawing in 2020.  

AEW was ranked highest out of all non-news and sports shows this week.


----------



## Kentucky34

3venflow said:


> Isn't Raw currently doing its worst ratings ever with McIntyre, Owens, Orton and the 'Monday Night Messiah' Rollins?
> 
> Rollins is the most boring of the Shield, Mox and Reigns are finally superstars but Rollins still feels inauthentic and bland to me.
> 
> The VP debate had 50,000,000 viewers. At least Kamala is still drawing in 2020.
> 
> AEW was ranked highest out of all non-news and sports shows this week.


RAW's ratings are steady.


----------



## Kentucky34

prosperwithdeen said:


> Cena only appealed to children, but grown adults had no interest in his character because it was extremely PG and his promo content was mostly geared at kids. It’s the same with OC, he’s popular with the younger generation but most adults would rather watch talent who act like men like a Moxley, Cody, MJF, or Hangman.
> 
> Rollins is not even close to being any kind of draw. I don’t know how you cooked that up in your mind but Rollins is on the same level as everyone else in WWE.
> 
> Big names are only made after years of booking that build them up to that point. The guys who you consider big names were not always big names. AEW is creating their own stars. They don’t need to sign someone just for the sake of getting more cable viewers as they are doing superb in TNT’s eyes, they should only do it for the sake of making their show better. For example signing someone like Lesnar would be pointless given the way he works. Cable viewers would increase but in the long run it would probably do more harm given that he probably would want to do as less as possible.


At least Cena appealed to a certain demographic. 

Rollins has delivered the best numbers on Youtube and best TV quarters this year. He's on fire. 

Moxley, Cody and MJF don't keep the audience's attention.


----------



## ElTerrible

3venflow said:


> Isn't Raw currently doing its worst ratings ever with McIntyre, Owens, Orton and the 'Monday Night Messiah' Rollins?
> 
> Rollins is the most boring of the Shield, Mox and Reigns are finally superstars but Rollins still feels inauthentic and bland to me.
> 
> The VP debate had 50,000,000 viewers. *At least Kamala is still drawing in 2020*.
> 
> AEW was ranked highest out of all non-news and sports shows this week.




Kentucky34 is probably Seth himself. He totally seems like the Kevin Durant type.


----------



## bdon

ElTerrible said:


> Kentucky34 is probably Seth himself. He totally seems like the Kevin Durant type.


It’s funny, because I was legit thinking the same thing. 

The Monday Night Messiah has a Wednesday Night burner acct!


----------



## Purple Haze

Good demo, expecially considering the competition this week. 
But obviously some idiots will try to twist that into a bad thing.


----------



## imthegame19

Kentucky34 said:


> RAW's ratings are steady.


Raw ratings are down 800,000 to 900,000 viewers from a year ago. While AEW went up against debate that 50 million people watched. Raw didn't have to go up against anything like that.


----------



## imthegame19

Kentucky34 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> The problem with AEW is that they don't have a Cena, Austin or Rollins to draw in the viewers consistently and grow their audience. Jericho and Ambrose are very good, but not mega stars. MJF is just another Miz.
> 
> I think their ceiling is 1 million viewers.


Lol sorry pal Rollins doesn't belong with Cena or Austin. Just because his segments do well sometimes on record low rated shows lol. If anything Raw ratings were much higher when Ambrose and Jericho were in the WWE. Nice trying to sell Rollins as a star. In reality AEW ratings have been much more steady over the past few months.


----------



## DammitChrist

@Kentucky34 is a troll who’s using an alternate account, folks.

He really despises Seth Rollins to the point where he’s doing this shitty gimmick where he’s pretending to be a “fan” of his; so he actually wants you guys to shit on him. He’s overrating/overhyping Rollins for a reason. He just craves other people online to insult him.

He even derails tons of threads on the General WWE section with his nonsense about Rollins. Seriously, WHAT Seth Rollins “fan” even dares to compare his drawing ability to Steve Austin or The Rock?

That troll doesn’t even post on the fan thread. Of course he actually despises Rollins.

Please don’t engage in a serious discussion/debate with @Kentucky34 . His hatred for Rollins is so deep that he just wants you folks to be pissed off too.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> @Kentucky34 is a troll who’s using an alternate account, folks.
> 
> He really despises Seth Rollins to the point where he’s doing this shitty gimmick where he’s pretending to be a “fan” of his; so he actually wants you guys to shit on him. He’s overrating/overhyping Rollins for a reason. He just craves other people online to insult him.
> 
> He even derails tons of threads on the General WWE section with his nonsense about Rollins. Seriously, WHAT Seth Rollins “fan” even dares to compare his drawing ability to Steve Austin or The Rock?
> 
> That troll doesn’t even post on the fan thread. Of course he actually despises Rollins.
> 
> Please don’t engage in a serious discussion/debate with @Kentucky34 . His hatred for Rollins is so deep that he just wants you folks to be pissed off too.


More lies and personal attacks.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

La Parka said:


> If sports and political debates ever stop being brodcast on televison, LOOK OUT! AEW IS COMMIN FOR YOUR RATINGS


Don't forget coronavirus ceasing to be a thing. Coronavirus has been fucking with AEW ratings as well.



prosperwithdeen said:


> Cena only appealed to children, but grown adults had no interest in his character because it was extremely PG and his promo content was mostly geared at kids. It’s the same with OC, he’s popular with the younger generation but most adults would rather watch talent who act like men like a Moxley, Cody, MJF, or Hangman.
> 
> Rollins is not even close to being any kind of draw. I don’t know how you cooked that up in your mind but Rollins is on the same level as everyone else in WWE.
> 
> Big names are only made after years of booking that build them up to that point. The guys who you consider big names were not always big names. AEW is creating their own stars. They don’t need to sign someone just for the sake of getting more cable viewers as they are doing superb in TNT’s eyes, they should only do it for the sake of making their show better. For example signing someone like Lesnar would be pointless given the way he works. Cable viewers would increase but in the long run it would probably do more harm given that he probably would want to do as least as possible.


1. I liked Cena he reminded me of a traditional babyface and the fact he never turned heel again makes me smile. The kids had a hero and that hero never turned his back on them.

2. AEW doesn't have the audience to build it's own big stars yet. I pointed this out the other day and was accused of being negative but it's true. If you have a show that generally draws between 700-900 thousand viewers that's not going to hit the mainstream and if you don't hit the mainstream you don't become a star.

Best AEW can hope for right now is making it's own "company wide" stars and signing big name WWE guys and using them well. I don't know if Brock has signed anywhere yet but if he hasn't and I was Tony Khan I'd be throwing deals his way every chance I got.


----------



## Kentucky34

Chip Chipperson said:


> Don't forget coronavirus ceasing to be a thing. Coronavirus has been fucking with AEW ratings as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. I liked Cena he reminded me of a traditional babyface and the fact he never turned heel again makes me smile. The kids had a hero and that hero never turned his back on them.
> 
> 2. AEW doesn't have the audience to build it's own big stars yet. I pointed this out the other day and was accused of being negative but it's true. If you have a show that generally draws between 700-900 thousand viewers that's not going to hit the mainstream and if you don't hit the mainstream you don't become a star.
> 
> Best AEW can hope for right now is making it's own "company wide" stars and signing big name WWE guys and using them well. I don't know if Brock has signed anywhere yet but if he hasn't and I was Tony Khan I'd be throwing deals his way every chance I got.


Good post. 

I personally would replace Brock's name with someone else's. Other than that, I agree.


----------



## Klitschko

Sometimes AEW fans will blame everything to declined ratings and thats not fair and is bullshit. But you guys are pretending that there isn't some legit things that can impact their ratings sometimes. A presidential debate, or a huge popular game for example can have an impact.

Again, AEW fans shouldn't be using every single excuse in the book every week. But at the same time there is some legit excuses like this week for example. No, most wrestling fans apparently don't give a shit about politics, but to pretend that it didn't impact them at all and people are just making bad excuses this particular week is just weird. This whole topic of "lol another excuse" started today and you guys picked the worst time to bring it up, when there was an actual legit reason.


----------



## MoxAsylum

rbl85 said:


> Next week 900+K


Nah, Cody RHHHodes is turning people away as well as the rest of the geeks


----------



## The Wood

Cult03 said:


> Man, there's some shit on every week that affects the ratings for AEW. The show is never going to be on television by itself. Other things happening is not an excuse for low ratings.


Thank you! I can’t believe that “people would rather watch something else” is a good excuse in people’s brains.

Everyone has a smart phone and knows how to get the details of the debate. You don’t need to watch the whole charade live. People who went out of their way to watch it weren’t going to watch Dynamite anyway. How many of those 50 million people do apologists think they were going to get?

Oh, and isn’t it funny how many people will watch something on television when they actually _want_ to?


----------



## DammitChrist

MoxAsylum said:


> Nah, Cody RHHHodes is turning people away as well as the rest of the geeks


I bet you that Dynamite will STILL get a very solid rating next week, especially with Cody Rhodes (and Orange Cassidy) being advertised in a big championship match. They definitely aren't "turning people away."

For the record, I just love how angry folks like you keep using that "RHHHodes" term as that's supposed to be an insult to Cody Rhodes. You don't actually realize that you're really complimenting the guy since Triple H was a pretty good talent himself back in the day. By all means though, continue making these comparisons. You're just praising Cody without even realizing it 😂 

Once again, *WE'RE* the geeks. Quit using that term ironically. It doesn't make you look cool or valid at all.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> And they’ve been gradually increasing their ceiling and floors, so yes, the presidential debate is a large reason for the drop in viewership.


And nobody is denying that it does take away viewers, but the fact that there is an excuse every week, NXT, News, Real Housewives, Black Ink Crew... AEW fans need to learn to live with the fact that other shows are going to take away viewers. If people care enough they'll watch but if they don't they need to make people care enough to watch. Also their gradual increase seems to happen fortnightly, followed by a drop and another rise. They're still around the same number as they were months ago. The news and debates and NXT might take away viewers but we have to start talking about what AEW is doing to take away their own viewers.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Cult03 said:


> but we have to start talking about what AEW is doing to take away their own viewers.


Well no, because that'd be admitting AEW isn't perfect and some people aren't comfortable admitting that.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> And nobody is denying that it does take away viewers, but the fact that there is an excuse every week, NXT, News, Real Housewives, Black Ink Crew... AEW fans need to learn to live with the fact that other shows are going to take away viewers. If people care enough they'll watch but if they don't they need to make people care enough to watch. Also their gradual increase seems to happen fortnightly, followed by a drop and another rise. They're still around the same number as they were months ago. The news and debates and NXT might take away viewers but we have to start talking about what AEW is doing to take away their own viewers.


There average viewership has went up every month for several months now.

While I agree that AEW fans act like fucking dorks complaining about NXT stealing viewers, MLB, Housewives, or whatever, can you not see that you’re back to doing the old “Well, they refuse to budge on anything, so I’m going to meet them with equal opposition.”

Trying to downplay a Vice Presidential debate that received 50 million viewers? It does nothing to help your case of sounding like one who wants to spit intellectual.

And as I already said, of those 50 million, I’d say it is safe to assume that 100-150k of those people would have been watching Dynamite like most weeks if not for the rarity and importance of a VP debate.

We know anyone arguing about Real Housewives “stealing” viewers as being unfair is a fucking child. We argue with children now..?


----------



## The Wood

It's basically the same pool of people watching every week, give or take whether someone has a cold and decides to go out or not.


----------



## rbl85

MoxAsylum said:


> Nah, Cody RHHHodes is turning people away as well as the rest of the geeks


He is the face of AEW, deal with it.


----------



## patpat

prosperwithdeen said:


> Cena only appealed to children, but grown adults had no interest in his character because it was extremely PG and his promo content was mostly geared at kids. It’s the same with OC, he’s popular with the younger generation but most adults would rather watch talent who act like men like a Moxley, Cody, MJF, or Hangman.
> 
> Rollins is not even close to being any kind of draw. I don’t know how you cooked that up in your mind but Rollins is on the same level as everyone else in WWE.
> 
> Big names are only made after years of booking that build them up to that point. The guys who you consider big names were not always big names. AEW is creating their own stars. They don’t need to sign someone just for the sake of getting more cable viewers as they are doing superb in TNT’s eyes, they should only do it for the sake of making their show better. For example signing someone like Lesnar would be pointless given the way he works. Cable viewers would increase but in the long run it would probably do more harm given that he probably would want to do as least as possible.


Mah boy you know I like you but cut the fn bullshit. Cena was literally the last mega star wwe had and the rating fell off a fucking cliff when he left. Cena was a huge and I mean a huge draw in that he was able to maintain wwe's ratings steady. People are just biased against him, there were a lot of male fans who loved him, women adored him children too. His merch sales are a proof of that. Here is the thing you can dislike cena but the man was a mega star and helped wwe keep afloat. Cena didnt drive away many viewers HHH DID. You can take any ratings graphics and you will see the ratings absolutely fucking DIED during the reign of terror. Cena literally maintained their viewership and edge too was a big factor. 
Aew doesnt have a cena, trust me if they had one we would be having a much different conversation.


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> He is the face of AEW, deal with it.


Then there is a problem because jon Moxley is supposed to be that. And there is a double problem because when your Ace is being called the "HHH of aew jeff Jarrett of aew" on every single social media platform when all those things happen then you failed. 
Anyone who believes the people unhappy with cody lately are some minority are fooling themselves


----------



## Erik.

patpat said:


> Then there is a problem because jon Moxley is supposed to be that.


Is he?


----------



## imthegame19

Q1: 767k / 414k (Cage vs. Hobbs)
Q2: 760k / 399k (post-Cage vs. Hobbs, Lance Archer promo)
Q3: 814k / 396k (FTR vs. TH2, MJF promo)
Q4: 777k / 409k (Cody vs. Lee build-up)
Q5: 849k / 436k (Cody vs. Lee)
Q6: 723k / 389k (Cody vs. Lee, Omega promo)
Q7: 637k / 364k (Big Swole vs. Deeb, Moxley promo)
Q8: 696k / 399k (Hager/Jericho vs. Luther/Serpentico


As expected the show tanked once debate got going.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

imthegame19 said:


> Q1: 767k / 414k (Cage vs. Hobbs)
> Q2: 760k / 399k (post-Cage vs. Hobbs, Lance Archer promo)
> Q3: 814k / 396k (FTR vs. TH2, MJF promo)
> Q4: 777k / 409k (Cody vs. Lee build-up)
> Q5: 849k / 436k (Cody vs. Lee)
> Q6: 723k / 389k (Cody vs. Lee, Omega promo)
> Q7: 637k / 364k (Big Swole vs. Deeb, Moxley promo)
> Q8: 696k / 399k (Hager/Jericho vs. Luther/Serpentico
> 
> 
> As expected the show tanked once debate got going.


dog collar match did what it was supposed to

propped up the card / ratings in the middle


----------



## imthegame19

patpat said:


> Then there is a problem because jon Moxley is supposed to be that. And there is a double problem because when your Ace is being called the "HHH of aew jeff Jarrett of aew" on every single social media platform when all those things happen then you failed.
> Anyone who believes the people unhappy with cody lately are some minority are fooling themselves



Moxley the most popular and biggest draw. Minute by minute numbers, YouTube views etc all show that. He's champ and strongest booked W/L for that reason. But i think the issue is they shove Cody down our throats as the face of AEW and want him to be the guy at some point. When he clearly isn't and pushing it so much is turning more people against him. 


It's turning into a very mixed response from people. With the Triple H, Jarrett or even Roman Reigns feeling coming from him. While if you ask most fans who's the one guy they watch AEW for the most. It's usually Moxley, Jericho, Omega, Bucks/Tag team or young guys like Page or MJF. Not that often Cody being the guy. 


The thing is Cody wants to be the guy and top baby face in wrestling. He wants to be mega star like his dad and his ego tells him he can do it. So far Tony Khan allowed him to do whatever he wants to get himself over. The problem is fans are a lot smarter then in the past and Cody pushed too hard sometimes. So it feels forced like Reigns stuff and turns fans on the guy. 


There's a reason why people this week were more into Moxley cutting 1 minute and 45 second promo in a bar. Compared to big long epic bloody long dog collar match with Cody overcoming the odds. With crying emotional promo afterwards. That's because one thing felt cool and natural with Moxley putting over Archer. The other felt like Hollywood drama that stopped Brodie Lee Momentum in attempt to get Cody more over. Problem is felt too over the top and forced. With people realizing they see this Hollywood drama moments from Cody all the time. Which cause people to turn on Cody and upset Brodie Lee lost.


----------



## 3venflow

patpat said:


> Then there is a problem because jon Moxley is supposed to be that. And there is a double problem because when your Ace is being called the "HHH of aew jeff Jarrett of aew" on every single social media platform when all those things happen then you failed.
> Anyone who believes the people unhappy with cody lately are some minority are fooling themselves


You can easily have a 'face of the company' while also having a 'top star of the company'. Case in point, NJPW ace Hiroshi Tanahashi and top star Kazuchika Okada several years ago. Tanahashi was the one who did all the press stuff while Okada was putting on 5* matches. Tanahashi is still called the ace to this day even though his role has reduced.

Indeed, you can draw several parallels to that and it would not surprise me if the thinking is similar. In fact, WK8 at the Tokyo Dome had Tanahashi vs. Nakamura for the IWGP IC Title main event above Okada vs. Naito for the IWGP HW Title. But no one complained, because in the real world people don't obsess over things like this.

Cody is the guy they would send to talk shows because he knows how to promote the company. Mox is the anti-hero badass. They coexist and are the top two babyfaces in the company for now (Hangman Page on his way up). There's really nothing wrong with this except in the eyes of hyper-critical smart marks who have been doing this as long as I can remember - I've been on news groups/message boards since 97 and Austin/Rock used to even get shit like this.

WWE even used Cody for promotions, like the Be a Superstar one with Cena and Jericho in 2009.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Yikes, a 47% drop year over year with absolutely no competition to affect them. Not to mention, it was a special episode.
> 
> Company seems to be on it's way out.


Wrestling is going to be sad without Dynamite and Smackdown.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Kentucky34 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> The problem with AEW is that they don't have a Cena, Austin or Rollins to draw in the viewers consistently and grow their audience. Jericho and Ambrose are very good, but not mega stars. MJF is just another Miz.
> 
> I think their ceiling is 1 million viewers.


That fool said Rollins lmao.


----------



## DammitChrist

TKO Wrestling said:


> That fool said Rollins lmao.


Yep, no worries, dude.

That troll genuinely hates Seth Rollins, so he’s just making these absurd exaggerations in order to spread more hate to the guy. 

It’s pretty sad that he does this on a daily basis tbh. He’s even spreading this shit in the AEW section too.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, no worries, dude.
> 
> That troll genuinely hates Seth Rollins, so he’s just making these absurd exaggerations in order to spread more hate to the guy.
> 
> It’s pretty sad that he does this on a daily basis tbh. He’s even spreading this shit in the AEW section too.


I see. Gotcha. That actually makes sense.


----------



## Prosper

patpat said:


> Mah boy you know I like you but cut the fn bullshit. Cena was literally the last mega star wwe had and the rating fell off a fucking cliff when he left. Cena was a huge and I mean a huge draw in that he was able to maintain wwe's ratings steady. People are just biased against him, there were a lot of male fans who loved him, women adored him children too. His merch sales are a proof of that. Here is the thing you can dislike cena but the man was a mega star and helped wwe keep afloat. Cena didnt drive away many viewers HHH DID. You can take any ratings graphics and you will see the ratings absolutely fucking DIED during the reign of terror. Cena literally maintained their viewership and edge too was a big factor.
> Aew doesnt have a cena, trust me if they had one we would be having a much different conversation.


Triple H's reign of terror was bad too don't get me wrong, and Cena definitely was a mega star, but he is still a big reason among many as to why so many people stopped watching the product. Everywhere you looked the guy got hate, except for when it came to children who convinced their parents to buy up all his merch. The guy went over EVERYONE. I was already sick of it way back at Summerslam 2005 when he went over Jericho. It was nauseating how he would beat everyone and spout out his "Never Give Up on your dreams" superhero nonsense. I hated it. Vince put the company on his back when he didn't need to. The guy had a continuous title reign that lasted 5 years with very small gaps in between. Couldn't stand it.


----------



## omaroo

Codys reign of terror should.last till late next year and expect him to be world champion later next year also. Oh what times to be a fan of AEW lol. No matter how much he forces it he will never be a big star let alone the face.


----------



## rbl85

patpat said:


> Then there is a problem because jon Moxley is supposed to be that. And there is a double problem because when your Ace is being called the "HHH of aew jeff Jarrett of aew" on every single social media platform when all those things happen then you failed.
> *Anyone who believes the people unhappy with cody lately are some minority are fooling themselves*


Yes those peoples are a minority.


----------



## zaz102

I think AEW reached their initial target audience (lapsed fans, WWE fans looking for an alternative, etc.) For them to reach the next level, they need to reach new audiences.

A strong angle would help too, but I can't imagine that will help too much until the pandemic is over. It makes me wonder how impactful Hogan's heel turn and the nWo would be if there was no crowd.

I think until they get crowds back, they need to work on their storytelling formula, creating new stars, develop partnerships (like NJPW), work on external media (create an awesome video game), etc. When crowds come back hopefully they can build some momentum.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Decent Rating huh. Oh well. They will bounce back.


----------



## kingfrass44

zaz102 said:


> I think AEW reached their initial target audience (lapsed fans, WWE fans looking for an alternative, etc.) For them to reach the next level, they need to reach new audiences.
> 
> A strong angle would help too, but I can't imagine that will help too much until the pandemic is over. It makes me wonder how impactful Hogan's heel turn and the nWo would be if there was no crowd.
> 
> I think until they get crowds back, they need to work on their storytelling formula, creating new stars, develop partnerships (like NJPW), work on external media (create an awesome video game), etc. When crowds come back hopefully they can build some momentum.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


You wrong
AEW They do not have lapsed fans
Only 700-900k hardcore


----------



## bdon

AEW not ratings
Smark only


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> Q1: 767k / 414k (Cage vs. Hobbs)
> Q2: 760k / 399k (post-Cage vs. Hobbs, Lance Archer promo)
> Q3: 814k / 396k (FTR vs. TH2, MJF promo)
> Q4: 777k / 409k (Cody vs. Lee build-up)
> Q5: 849k / 436k (Cody vs. Lee)
> Q6: 723k / 389k (Cody vs. Lee, Omega promo)
> Q7: 637k / 364k (Big Swole vs. Deeb, Moxley promo)
> Q8: 696k / 399k (Hager/Jericho vs. Luther/Serpentico
> 
> 
> As expected the show tanked once debate got going.


767k ended up as 696k, and the second is considered “tanking?” That’s like three Nielsen boxes, haha. One switched over to the debate, one got bored and the other went to bed.



TKO Wrestling said:


> That fool said Rollins lmao.


I’m not a big fan of the guy and his toe-sucking ways, but say what you want — Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins both overtook Moxley EASILY in the WWE. Both are just better overall packages. If either showed up in AEW, Mox would have his spot usurped so fast.

Reigns would probably actually help ratings, since he is a draw for even the WWE. He would probably take them to over 1 million on the reg. Rollins wouldn’t hurt though. He’d be a relative draw within that environment, like a Moxley or like how Jericho used to be. His segments would likely be trending the best overall.


----------



## zaz102

kingfrass44 said:


> You wrong
> AEW They do not have lapsed fans
> Only hardcore


I'm curious- why do you say that? I was a lapsed fan.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Aedubya

I am also "lapsed"


----------



## The Wood

We've got two, folks. 

You probably would have loved the WWE in 2016. Most of the angles are copied from then. Jericho/Moxley happened then, except instead of stealing a car from Jericho, Mox cut up Jericho's jacket. Jericho is also about to do the Kevin Owens/Jericho thing from 2016/17 with MJF, where Jericho suddenly becomes the loveable guy against the up-and-coming heel that just flopped in the main event.


----------



## zaz102

The Wood said:


> We've got two, folks.
> 
> You probably would have loved the WWE in 2016. Most of the angles are copied from then. Jericho/Moxley happened then, except instead of stealing a car from Jericho, Mox cut up Jericho's jacket. Jericho is also about to do the Kevin Owens/Jericho thing from 2016/17 with MJF, where Jericho suddenly becomes the loveable guy against the up-and-coming heel that just flopped in the main event.


I tried to watch WWE shows every once in awhile but I could not get into it whereas AEW got my attention. I'll take your word that most angles are copied to some extent, but with all due respect to WWE, I could not get into their presentation.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## The Wood

It was about the same as AEW a few years ago, except with slightly better music.


----------



## zaz102

The Wood said:


> It was about the same as AEW a few years ago, except with slightly better music.


Cool, man. Maybe must have missed out on that period. If its as good as you say, I'll try to check it out of I get free time. In the mean time, definitely feels good to be back as a fan.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## The Wood

zaz102 said:


> Cool, man. Maybe must have missed out on that period. If its as good as you say, I'll try to check it out of I get free time. In the mean time, definitely feels good to be back as a fan.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Oh, it wasn’t good.


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> Yes those peoples are a minority.


Being delusional isnt that bad then. 
I am pretty sure you had a shit lot of people defending HHH's garbage writing too back in the days anyway so...


----------



## patpat

imthegame19 said:


> Moxley the most popular and biggest draw. Minute by minute numbers, YouTube views etc all show that. He's champ and strongest booked W/L for that reason. But i think the issue is they shove Cody down our throats as the face of AEW and want him to be the guy at some point. When he clearly isn't and pushing it so much is turning more people against him.
> 
> 
> It's turning into a very mixed response from people. With the Triple H, Jarrett or even Roman Reigns feeling coming from him. While if you ask most fans who's the one guy they watch AEW for the most. It's usually Moxley, Jericho, Omega, Bucks/Tag team or young guys like Page or MJF. Not that often Cody being the guy.
> 
> 
> The thing is Cody wants to be the guy and top baby face in wrestling. He wants to be mega star like his dad and his ego tells him he can do it. So far Tony Khan allowed him to do whatever he wants to get himself over. The problem is fans are a lot smarter then in the past and Cody pushed too hard sometimes. So it feels forced like Reigns stuff and turns fans on the guy.
> 
> 
> There's a reason why people this week were more into Moxley cutting 1 minute and 45 second promo in a bar. Compared to big long epic bloody long dog collar match with Cody overcoming the odds. With crying emotional promo afterwards. That's because one thing felt cool and natural with Moxley putting over Archer. The other felt like Hollywood drama that stopped Brodie Lee Momentum in attempt to get Cody more over. Problem is felt too over the top and forced. With people realizing they see this Hollywood drama moments from Cody all the time. Which cause people to turn on Cody and upset Brodie Lee lost.


Moxley is absolutely the biggest draw. Then why the fuck am I not seeing him more on my freaking tv? Why am I not seeing him promoted everywhere , on their social media, why am I not seeing everything they do for cody done for mox? Mox is a bigger draw so certainly if they do it with him 100% it will push the company even fucking further that's just 1+1. Mox is the biggest draw but that's because we know it, for your random viewer who just watches the show he isnt even going to see that, in fact he might even think that the aew world title is a midcard belt because its treated like one. Moxley's huge record is literally the only thing they sid well when it comes from his booking. Ans here is a bomb truth 

The reason why mox is a draw has absolutely nothing to so with aew. Mox is drawing the exact same number he was drawing in 2019, from a range of 50k to 100k+. Normally with aew he should already be drawing 200k+ more consistently ( he did it tho unironically when he wasnt champion and was chasing the belt. You know when we actually had a shit ton of mox content on tv every week and always something cool he was doing.) Aew actually cooled down Moxley because when he came out at don he felt fucking huge. The fact that instead of capitalising all their efforts and investments on guys like mox they keep focusing on cody ( that's not even bad since cody isnt terrible) but also on his entire nightmare family is what hurts this company. 
And as long as aew doesnt get their shit straight and doesnt understand that cody and Jericho are not their only top guys and arent even the one with the biggest drawing potential, their evolution will be slower. 
I dont remember seeing anyone ever complaining about mox on tv when he was pushed as fuck, and beating people right and left. Maybe this should tell something to cody


----------



## rbl85

patpat said:


> Being delusional isnt that bad then.
> I am pretty sure you had a shit lot of people defending HHH's garbage writing too back in the days anyway so...


Cody have put over a lot of wrestlers in AEW.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Cody have put over a lot of wrestlers in AEW.


Who? 

Losing to someone isn't putting them over. Putting them over means they actually go above you, so to speak. No one that has beaten Cody has actually ended up in a different spot. The same argument can be made for Triple H. The only guy he's ever really put over is Batista. Seth Rollins beats him, what is Rollins doing at Mania the next year? Triple Threat opener for the IC Title. Ouch. That's not "going over."


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Who?
> 
> Losing to someone isn't putting them over. Putting them over means they actually go above you, so to speak. No one that has beaten Cody has actually ended up in a different spot. The same argument can be made for Triple H. The only guy he's ever really put over is Batista. Seth Rollins beats him, what is Rollins doing at Mania the next year? Triple Threat opener for the IC Title. Ouch. That's not "going over."


It amazes me that people, who think they “know” wrestling in 2020, still don’t understand the most basic of principles.


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> Who?
> 
> Losing to someone isn't putting them over. Putting them over means they actually go above you, so to speak. No one that has beaten Cody has actually ended up in a different spot. The same argument can be made for Triple H. The only guy he's ever really put over is Batista. Seth Rollins beats him, what is Rollins doing at Mania the next year? Triple Threat opener for the IC Title. Ouch. That's not "going over."


Cody hasn't put anyone over per sé but he absolutely elevated Darby Allin after their first draw. Cody has also helped MJF get a bigger spotlight, giving him the chance to do some nice character work and have an established storyline from day one. 

The Brodie squash also did a lot of Brodie. Yes, it feels somewhat undone by Cody beating him last week but Brodie felt more relevant in the past 5 weeks than the first few months of his tenure in AEW. Hopefully Brodie rebounds well with some good booking. Brodie definitely isn't buried. Just needs something now to make sure he doesn't fall to the wayside the way Archer, Cage and so many other big guys did after their initial stories culminated.


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> Cody hasn't put anyone over per sé but he absolutely elevated Darby Allin after their first draw. Cody has also helped MJF get a bigger spotlight, giving him the chance to do some nice character work and have an established storyline from day one.
> 
> The Brodie squash also did a lot of Brodie. Yes, it feels somewhat undone by Cody beating him last week but Brodie felt more relevant in the past 5 weeks than the first few months of his tenure in AEW. Hopefully Brodie rebounds well with some good booking. Brodie definitely isn't buried. Just needs something now to make sure he doesn't fall to the wayside the way Archer, Cage and so many other big guys did after their initial stories culminated.


I'll actually give you Darby Allin. I was thinking of mentioning that myself. MJF is...eh. He was going to get spotlight anyway, and Cody kind of slowed that down in the end. Don't give enough of a fuck about Brodie to actually engage with you on that point, sorry, haha. I'm sure it's well-made, but Cody/Brodie is the smallest of fish to discuss, I feel.


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> I'll actually give you Darby Allin. I was thinking of mentioning that myself. MJF is...eh. He was going to get spotlight anyway, and Cody kind of slowed that down in the end. Don't give enough of a fuck about Brodie to actually engage with you on that point, sorry, haha. I'm sure it's well-made, but Cody/Brodie is the smallest of fish to discuss, I feel.


You're right in saying MJF would have got there anyway but AEWs roster is quite stacked so MJF having that Cody storyline brewing from day one helped fast track him. I wouldn't agree Cody slowed him down at the end. MJF turned on him at the first Dynamite era PPV and then beat him at the very next PPV. Thats actually pretty good pacing in my opinion, especially compared to Omega and Page right now!

And fair enough, let's not talk about Brodie. To be fair, the next few months are going to be telling to see if Brodie is actually going to be a player or if he was just a chapter in the Cody saga


----------



## Chip Chipperson

sim8 said:


> Cody hasn't put anyone over per sé but he absolutely elevated Darby Allin after their first draw. Cody has also helped MJF get a bigger spotlight, giving him the chance to do some nice character work and have an established storyline from day one.
> 
> The Brodie squash also did a lot of Brodie. Yes, it feels somewhat undone by Cody beating him last week but Brodie felt more relevant in the past 5 weeks than the first few months of his tenure in AEW. Hopefully Brodie rebounds well with some good booking. Brodie definitely isn't buried. Just needs something now to make sure he doesn't fall to the wayside the way Archer, Cage and so many other big guys did after their initial stories culminated.


Brodie has lost every major match he's ever had except against Cody who was so beaten and broken down that he managed a shock win.

In a fair fight Brodie loses every time. That's not putting him over.


----------



## sim8

Chip Chipperson said:


> Brodie has lost every major match he's ever had except against Cody who was so beaten and broken down that he managed a shock win.
> 
> In a fair fight Brodie loses every time. That's not putting him over.


Would you not consider Brodies successful title defences against Dustin and Orange Cassidy as major wins? Putting personal bias side, AEW has framed Dustin as an upper mid card legend and Orange Cassidy as one of the few men to have a pinfall victory over Chris Jericho. So from a narrative point of view, major wins for Brodie.


----------



## La Parka

sim8 said:


> Would you not consider Brodies successful title defences against Dustin and Orange Cassidy as major wins? Putting personal bias side, AEW has framed Dustin as an upper mid card legend and Orange Cassidy as one of the few men to have a pinfall victory over Chris Jericho. So from a narrative point of view, major wins for Brodie.


Didn't OC have to fight off like 30 members of the Dork Order during that match?


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> You're right in saying MJF would have got there anyway but AEWs roster is quite stacked so MJF having that Cody storyline brewing from day one helped fast track him. I wouldn't agree Cody slowed him down at the end. MJF turned on him at the first Dynamite era PPV and then beat him at the very next PPV. Thats actually pretty good pacing in my opinion, especially compared to Omega and Page right now!
> 
> And fair enough, let's not talk about Brodie. To be fair, the next few months are going to be telling to see if Brodie is actually going to be a player or if he was just a chapter in the Cody saga


I don’t completely disagree on the MJF thing. I think it’s just a matter of perspective. On paper, the program fast-tracked him. But that’s just justice, haha.


----------



## sim8

La Parka said:


> Didn't OC have to fight off like 30 members of the Dork Order during that match?


Beside the point. Talking about Brodies major wins and beating the bloke who beat Jericho twice is a major win. Yes, Brodie got outside help but he is a heel with a whole cult at his disposal. 

And to be fair this makes me question Chips argument in the first place. Chip saying Brodie (the heel) can't beat Cody (the babyface) in a fair fight. Isn't that the point? We would hardly see Stone Cold and Hulk Hogan - the top babyfaces of their generation - lose clean to heels. Cody has been positioned as a top babyface. The story being told of a babyface overcoming adversity is age-old. The issue with Cody vs Brodie is the way it was told. 5 weeks was not long enough and Cody's return was not well handled. Chances are Brodie falls down the card now which to answer the original topic of who has Cody helped elevate or put over, Brodie may not be one of them. The next few months will tell


----------



## The Wood

I think you’re right in terms of role, but people don’t want Cody in that role when he just gave it up. There’s something jarring about a babyface getting their ass kicked and it just being retconned.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

sim8 said:


> Would you not consider Brodies successful title defences against Dustin and Orange Cassidy as major wins? Putting personal bias side, AEW has framed Dustin as an upper mid card legend and Orange Cassidy as one of the few men to have a pinfall victory over Chris Jericho. So from a narrative point of view, major wins for Brodie.


Dustin Rhodes is a 51 year old man who at best was upper midcard even in his prime. No, 40 year old Brodie Lee struggling to beat Dustin and being competitive with him isn't a major win. Maybe if he beat him in 5 minutes just like he did his brother.

Orange Cassidy is a comedy goof character and the fact Brodie went over 5 minutes with him is a joke and far from a major win. Even if you want to argue that OC beat Jericho so is an accomplished wrestler (I feel sick writing that) Brodie Lee still had a considerable size advantage and struggled to beat him.



sim8 said:


> And to be fair this makes me question Chips argument in the first place. Chip saying Brodie (the heel) can't beat Cody (the babyface) in a fair fight. Isn't that the point? We would hardly see Stone Cold and Hulk Hogan - the top babyfaces of their generation - lose clean to heels. Cody has been positioned as a top babyface. The story being told of a babyface overcoming adversity is age-old. The issue with Cody vs Brodie is the way it was told. 5 weeks was not long enough and Cody's return was not well handled. Chances are Brodie falls down the card now which to answer the original topic of who has Cody helped elevate or put over, Brodie may not be one of them. The next few months will tell


Sure, if both guys were of equal experience level, equal size etc it'd make total sense for Brodie to have to cheat every time.

Brodie Lee is 6'7 and 275 pounds

Cody Rhodes is 6'1 and 220 pounds.

Odds are it should be Cody having to outsmart Brodie and get lucky as opposed to Brodie having to cheat and have guys run interference for him. Brodie looks like a big goof that doesn't know how to use his size or experience to his advantage whilst Cody looks awesome for being able to beat someone that he has significant disadvantages against.


----------



## bdon

For someone that gets lauded for their psychology, did Cody ever use his speed to evade the bigger, stronger Brodie Lee?


----------



## The Wood

Cody’s psychology is evidently overrated. He’s had a couple of good matches, but they’re usually with people more experienced than him on a major level.

I completely forgot Brodie Lee struggled with Dustin before he squashed Cody. To those who say AEW is great at telling stories, how does that make any sense?


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

Kentucky34 said:


> More lies and personal attacks.


Kentucky34 not disrespect but if u are a true seth fan, how come u have never posted in his fan discussion board. I mean that makes you very suspect.


----------



## The Wood

Tk Adeyemi said:


> Kentucky34 not disrespect but if u are a true seth fan, how come u have never posted in his fan discussion board. I mean that makes you very suspect.


I’ve never posted in any wrestler’s fan discussion board.


----------



## sim8

Chip Chipperson said:


> Dustin Rhodes is a 51 year old man who at best was upper midcard even in his prime. No, 40 year old Brodie Lee struggling to beat Dustin and being competitive with him isn't a major win. Maybe if he beat him in 5 minutes just like he did his brother.
> 
> Orange Cassidy is a comedy goof character and the fact Brodie went over 5 minutes with him is a joke and far from a major win. Even if you want to argue that OC beat Jericho so is an accomplished wrestler (I feel sick writing that) Brodie Lee still had a considerable size advantage and struggled to beat him.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, if both guys were of equal experience level, equal size etc it'd make total sense for Brodie to have to cheat every time.
> 
> Brodie Lee is 6'7 and 275 pounds
> 
> Cody Rhodes is 6'1 and 220 pounds.
> 
> Odds are it should be Cody having to outsmart Brodie and get lucky as opposed to Brodie having to cheat and have guys run interference for him. Brodie looks like a big goof that doesn't know how to use his size or experience to his advantage whilst Cody looks awesome for being able to beat someone that he has significant disadvantages against.


Everything you say is true in a legitimate sense but pro wrestling has always been about framing. It's why Big Show in his prime who should have just killed everyone with his height and weight advantage was never really the top guy. Or when Jerry Lawler came close to beating The Miz for the world title in 2011. People really believed in that and wanted that despite Jerry being nothing but an upper mid card at best in WWE. So yes Dustin was a upper midcarder at best in his prime and he is much older than Brodie but right now, AEW is booking him a bonafide legend who is better than ever and therefore a threat in the ring.

Same with OC. OC isn't the biggest guy or has the best physique but he has beaten Chris Jericho and Will Hobbs in the past, both of whom have the size advantage on OC. 

Are you saying heels should only cheat if they have to with that last bit? I don't necessarily agree with that. For a 'bad guy's cheating shouldn't be a last option. They should constantly try underhanded tactics to get the advantage and build that heat.


----------



## sim8

bdon said:


> For someone that gets lauded for their psychology, did Cody ever use his speed to evade the bigger, stronger Brodie Lee?


From memory, no he didn't.


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> Cody’s psychology is evidently overrated. He’s had a couple of good matches, but they’re usually with people more experienced than him on a major level.
> 
> I completely forgot Brodie Lee struggled with Dustin before he squashed Cody. To those who say AEW is great at telling stories, how does that make any sense?


I am one of the people who like AEWs story telling on a macro level. For example, the story of Brodie beating Cody in a squash, running roughshot until Cody returns to avenge his loss is a great simple story. But on a micro level, it was not as effective due to little things they decided to do. Brodie losing at All Out was stupid. Cody's return was not well done at all. Rushing to a rematch in 5 weeks and having Cody win without properly telling his redemption arc. 

Another example is Omega and Page. For the most part their week to week story beats have been great until recently where they both seem to be stuck in a rut. I'm sure in a years time we will look back and say their story was amazing without remembering the slow weeks where the story never advanced. 

AEW needs to improve on the pacing of stories because apart from that, the stories being told are quite good


----------



## Chip Chipperson

sim8 said:


> Are you saying heels should only cheat if they have to with that last bit? I don't necessarily agree with that. For a 'bad guy's cheating shouldn't be a last option. They should constantly try underhanded tactics to get the advantage and build that heat.


It depends, I personally think that having a heel who is great in their own right but SOMETIMES cheats is much more effective than a heel who always cheats. For example, Harley Race back in the days when he was NWA Champion would often outwrestle an opponent but when that babyface had him on the ropes and almost beaten Harley would cheat, get the win and really piss the fans off. Race would also go out on TV and pick apart jobbers with his superior wrestling ability which helps sell that he's an elite wrestler.

These days every heel cheats, it's kind of the style now that if you're a bad guy you can't be a good wrestler also but I'd respectfully disagree with your view and would like to see the return of heels only cheating if they really had to. Of course a wrestler could still naturally fight dirty (Hold on too long, thumb to the eye during a pinfall attempt, arrogant pins etc) but the real cheating should be reserved for when they're really on the ropes and about to lose.


----------



## sim8

Chip Chipperson said:


> It depends, I personally think that having a heel who is great in their own right but SOMETIMES cheats is much more effective than a heel who always cheats. For example, Harley Race back in the days when he was NWA Champion would often outwrestle an opponent but when that babyface had him on the ropes and almost beaten Harley would cheat, get the win and really piss the fans off. Race would also go out on TV and pick apart jobbers with his superior wrestling ability which helps sell that he's an elite wrestler.
> 
> These days every heel cheats, it's kind of the style now that if you're a bad guy you can't be a good wrestler also but I'd respectfully disagree with your view and would like to see the return of heels only cheating if they really had to. Of course a wrestler could still naturally fight dirty (Hold on too long, thumb to the eye during a pinfall attempt, arrogant pins etc) but the real cheating should be reserved for when they're really on the ropes and about to lose.


No I actually agree with you. We need a variety of heels and not just the one-note cheating heels. I'm just saying maybe Brodie is the heel who cheats everytime. He has the height and weight advantage 9 times out of 10 but he's such a piece of shit (in kayfabe, I'm not personally attacking him!) he still wants half a dozen of his cult members to get involved. 

Tell me if I'm wrong but aren't Cage and Archer just ass-kicking heels? That works for their characters, just like how this works for Brodie.

By the way, I keep noticing I keep making grammar and spelling mistakes but typing on a phone is bloody annoying and I don't have the patience to proof read everything I type


----------



## The Wood

You’re a good poster, sim8. I’m thoroughly enjoying your actual discussion with Chip.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> You’re a good poster, sim8. I’m thoroughly enjoying your actual discussion with Chip.


I’ll second this.


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> You’re a good poster, sim8. I’m thoroughly enjoying your actual discussion with Chip.





bdon said:


> I’ll second this.


Thanks lads, appreciate it. I just love pro wrestling. It's genuinely been the one constant in my life as a source of joy as stupid as that may sound. The only time I ever stepped away from it was in 2006 because it just didn't feel the same after Eddie died in November 2005.

Nearly came close to walking away as a fan completely in 2018 until All In in September of that year which led to AEW a few months later. 

It's so important for me as a fan to see AEW succeed for my own fandom which makes me super bias towards it. I want to see it grow and become a bonafide success which is why I think I enjoy debating you guys and Chip simply because I want to explore where AEW is going wrong and what needs to happen to make sure AEW doesn't become TNA 2.0


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> Thanks lads, appreciate it. I just love pro wrestling. It's genuinely been the one constant in my life as a source of joy as stupid as that may sound. The only time I ever stepped away from it was in 2006 because it just didn't feel the same after Eddie died in November 2005.
> 
> Nearly came close to walking away as a fan completely in 2018 until All In in September of that year which led to AEW a few months later.
> 
> It's so important for me as a fan to see AEW succeed for my own fandom which makes me super bias towards it. I want to see it grow and become a bonafide success which is why I think I enjoy debating you guys and Chip simply because I want to explore where AEW is going wrong and what needs to happen to make sure AEW doesn't become TNA 2.0


I can completely relate, except to the point where AEW doing the things to make themselves TNA 2.0 have made my old ass just lose faith in them completely. I entirely get the need for them to succeed, I just think there’s a fork as to how full/empty you see the glass there.

If AEW does end up disappointing you, there is always classic wrestling, and I have a feeling the wrestling world is in for a big shake-up in the near future.


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> I can completely relate, except to the point where AEW doing the things to make themselves TNA 2.0 have made my old ass just lose faith in them completely. I entirely get the need for them to succeed, I just think there’s a fork as to how full/empty you see the glass there.
> 
> If AEW does end up disappointing you, there is always classic wrestling, and I have a feeling the wrestling world is in for a big shake-up in the near future.


I'm nowhere near your level of cynicism haha I still enjoy AEW for the most part. Not perfect but what product can be after just a year by a group of people who are still learning themselves.

I gotta ask, what makes you think there is a big shake up coming? And is it coming from WWE, AEW or even New Japan? To me, AEW is the big shake up so intrigued by what else could potentially be coming


----------



## Chip Chipperson

sim8 said:


> I gotta ask, what makes you think there is a big shake up coming? And is it coming from WWE, AEW or even New Japan? To me, AEW is the big shake up so intrigued by what else could potentially be coming


Might not be the same opinion as The Wood but personally I'm of the belief that something will come out of the woodwork quite soon as well. Huge gap in the market right now for someone to do realistic style wrestling with a touring schedule and offer a true alternative to WWE.

Not sure I'd want to see it coming out of the USA though, I pitched an idea before on here of a wrestling product coming out of Singapore or another rich Asian country (Australia potentially would work as well) where a billionaire buys up the remaining talent, offers a sports style approach and tours.

Not sure how many American fans would watch but surely if this hypothetical promotion picked up enough big names it'd hook them. Asia seems completely untapped so the right person with the right talent and staff could very well make millions doing serious pro wrestling in Asia.


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> I'm nowhere near your level of cynicism haha I still enjoy AEW for the most part. Not perfect but what product can be after just a year by a group of people who are still learning themselves.
> 
> I gotta ask, what makes you think there is a big shake up coming? And is it coming from WWE, AEW or even New Japan? To me, AEW is the big shake up so intrigued by what else could potentially be coming


AEW is more of the same to me. In fact, if sports entertainment is a shitty cake, and WWE provides that, AEW is the way too sugary icing on top.

It’s mainly just my gut and reading the marketplace. As Chip goes on to say, there is a HUGE gap in the market for actual pro-wrestling. And TV rights are just too high. Some billionaire somewhere is going to get in on it.

My prediction has been The Rock. And people scoff laugh, but I’ve been saying this since before he bought the XFL. I also predicted that Daniel Bryan would use contract negotiations to get a measure of creative input in the company (although I suggested he try and use it to become booker). If the guy started a wrestling promotion, it would immediately get network support and start paying rights fees that can fuel Rock’s other production projects. It also allows him to prop up his other projects in terms of exposure — if you want Rock’s wrestling, you gotta take The Rock’s football. It hasn’t been announced yet because the TV rights for this sort of stuff has just kicked in and we got hit with a pandemic, and you’ve got to let AEW being the “hot thing” die out before you come in and instantly muscle them out of #2 place. The perfect time to announce it would be May sweeps next year at the upfronts, because Ronda Rousey could potentially be a free agent (provided WWE don’t freeze her contract). Brock Lesnar and CM Punk are also free agents. Tessa Blanchard hasn’t signed with anyone. Just throwing some names out there.

Rock starts up his own thing and Vince McMahon decides it’s time to bow out because he’s not going to compete with Rock. It’s the “next generation” now. Rock propping up Project Rock Wrestling and Triple H running WWE. Those are my predictions for biggest wrestling stories of 2021. AEW probably gets a bump by just existing and scraping some of the foot traffic this would cause, haha.

This probably sounds insane to people, but keep in mind that Rock did just buy a defunct football league because it was going cheap. There’s no way Rock and Dany Garcia haven’t talked about wrestling. And the potential TV rights are just so massive.

I’m not saying Rock would be there every week, or be the day-to-day or anything. It’d just be associated with him and run by Dany Garcia and/or Brian Gerwirtz or something. Even they might be too high above it. But I can easily see them throwing $15 million in and another investor dropping the rest. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> Might not be the same opinion as The Wood but personally I'm of the belief that something will come out of the woodwork quite soon as well. Huge gap in the market right now for someone to do realistic style wrestling with a touring schedule and offer a true alternative to WWE.
> 
> Not sure I'd want to see it coming out of the USA though, I pitched an idea before on here of a wrestling product coming out of Singapore or another rich Asian country (Australia potentially would work as well) where a billionaire buys up the remaining talent, offers a sports style approach and tours.
> 
> Not sure how many American fans would watch but surely if this hypothetical promotion picked up enough big names it'd hook them. Asia seems completely untapped so the right person with the right talent and staff could very well make millions doing serious pro wrestling in Asia.


That’s probably a more realistic scenario. There’s just so much potential money in wrestling done right. Regardless of whether my crazy Rock scenario happens, more and more billionaires are going to take an interest in live entertainment. It wouldn’t be completely shocking to see MLW and the NWA get major cash injections, or something international pop up. I’m surprised China hasn’t launched a promotion to try and bring in the rights fees.[/QUOTE]


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> AEW is more of the same to me. In fact, if sports entertainment is a shitty cake, and WWE provides that, AEW is the way too sugary icing on top.
> 
> It’s mainly just my gut and reading the marketplace. As Chip goes on to say, there is a HUGE gap in the market for actual pro-wrestling. And TV rights are just too high. Some billionaire somewhere is going to get in on it.
> 
> My prediction has been The Rock. And people scoff laugh, but I’ve been saying this since before he bought the XFL. I also predicted that Daniel Bryan would use contract negotiations to get a measure of creative input in the company (although I suggested he try and use it to become booker). If the guy started a wrestling promotion, it would immediately get network support and start paying rights fees that can fuel Rock’s other production projects. It also allows him to prop up his other projects in terms of exposure — if you want Rock’s wrestling, you gotta take The Rock’s football. It hasn’t been announced yet because the TV rights for this sort of stuff has just kicked in and we got hit with a pandemic, and you’ve got to let AEW being the “hot thing” die out before you come in and instantly muscle them out of #2 place. The perfect time to announce it would be May sweeps next year at the upfronts, because Ronda Rousey could potentially be a free agent (provided WWE don’t freeze her contract). Brock Lesnar and CM Punk are also free agents. Tessa Blanchard hasn’t signed with anyone. Just throwing some names out there.
> 
> Rock starts up his own thing and Vince McMahon decides it’s time to bow out because he’s not going to compete with Rock. It’s the “next generation” now. Rock propping up Project Rock Wrestling and Triple H running WWE. Those are my predictions for biggest wrestling stories of 2021. AEW probably gets a bump by just existing and scraping some of the foot traffic this would cause, haha.
> 
> This probably sounds insane to people, but keep in mind that Rock did just buy a defunct football league because it was going cheap. There’s no way Rock and Dany Garcia haven’t talked about wrestling. And the potential TV rights are just so massive.
> 
> I’m not saying Rock would be there every week, or be the day-to-day or anything. It’d just be associated with him and run by Dany Garcia and/or Brian Gerwirtz or something. Even they might be too high above it. But I can easily see them throwing $15 million in and another investor dropping the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> That’s probably a more realistic scenario. There’s just so much potential money in wrestling done right. Regardless of whether my crazy Rock scenario happens, more and more billionaires are going to take an interest in live entertainment. It wouldn’t be completely shocking to see MLW and the NWA get major cash injections, or something international pop up. I’m surprised China hasn’t launched a promotion to try and bring in the rights fees.


[/QUOTE]

More wrestling options are always welcomed by me. AEW is still a lot of fun to me so I'm not clamouring for anything new but your rock scenario does sound exciting


----------



## The Wood

Your optimism is refreshing, even if I do believe it is misguided, haha. I hope you enjoy it.


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> Your optimism is refreshing, even if I do believe it is misguided, haha. I hope you enjoy it.


And I find your level of cynismism unwarranted haha but that's what makes talking about wrestling fun. I don't want to be spending time on a forum having my own opinions validated. I'm here to have my views broadened


----------



## Jman55

The Wood said:


> Your optimism is refreshing, even if I do believe it is misguided, haha. I hope you enjoy it.


This is why I always get confused when people call you a troll. Headstrong and occasionally abrasive yes I've been on the opposite side enough to know that and you sure have never hid you are against AEW but though I disagree often your opinions are usually pretty well thought out and reasoned and when I debate with you though my personal opinion rarely changes I do get more perspective on situations (and sometimes I'll just flat agree with you AEW's biggest issue to me has always been inconsistency they are good 80-85% of the time to me but when they are not good they are REALLY not good) and we have both had perfectly reasonable discussions with each other once we got past the initial "no I'm right" phase of sharing our opinions (like in Chip's original major former WWE guys thread when we talked about whether Trent should really count)

On the topic you guys were discussing yeah though AEW is a shake up it's not been the big massive turn around some people expected either it's just been a moderately successful wrestling company at least so far. A Rock lead company you are suggesting would probably prove to be a massive deal and could be an even bigger change in the business than AEW was due to his history in the business as well as current stardom. I feel it's unlikely to ever actually happen though but if by some miracle it did it would indeed be a massive deal and tbh I'd probably watch (I also agree that there is a bit of an untapped market for more purist wrestling though I doubt it'd actually get as big success as some hope it'd still be marketable enough to survive and be there for the people who don't want sports entertainment)


----------



## omaroo

I do agree AEW might be defaul the no 2 company in the world but they are not "big" nor have the change the business in a major way.

Yes its good alternative to have but its not gona be what WCW was back in the day.

If they are also set on just sticking with their current audience they are doomed to fail as you will never grow and could eventually lose who you currently cater to.

Again people in charge TK and his moron execs clearly have no idea what they are doing.


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> AEW is more of the same to me. In fact, if sports entertainment is a shitty cake, and WWE provides that, AEW is the way too sugary icing on top.
> 
> It’s mainly just my gut and reading the marketplace. As Chip goes on to say, there is a HUGE gap in the market for actual pro-wrestling. And TV rights are just too high. Some billionaire somewhere is going to get in on it.
> 
> My prediction has been The Rock. And people scoff laugh, but I’ve been saying this since before he bought the XFL. I also predicted that Daniel Bryan would use contract negotiations to get a measure of creative input in the company (although I suggested he try and use it to become booker). If the guy started a wrestling promotion, it would immediately get network support and start paying rights fees that can fuel Rock’s other production projects. It also allows him to prop up his other projects in terms of exposure — if you want Rock’s wrestling, you gotta take The Rock’s football. It hasn’t been announced yet because the TV rights for this sort of stuff has just kicked in and we got hit with a pandemic, and you’ve got to let AEW being the “hot thing” die out before you come in and instantly muscle them out of #2 place. The perfect time to announce it would be May sweeps next year at the upfronts, because Ronda Rousey could potentially be a free agent (provided WWE don’t freeze her contract). Brock Lesnar and CM Punk are also free agents. Tessa Blanchard hasn’t signed with anyone. Just throwing some names out there.
> 
> Rock starts up his own thing and Vince McMahon decides it’s time to bow out because he’s not going to compete with Rock. It’s the “next generation” now. Rock propping up Project Rock Wrestling and Triple H running WWE. Those are my predictions for biggest wrestling stories of 2021. AEW probably gets a bump by just existing and scraping some of the foot traffic this would cause, haha.
> 
> This probably sounds insane to people, but keep in mind that Rock did just buy a defunct football league because it was going cheap. There’s no way Rock and Dany Garcia haven’t talked about wrestling. And the potential TV rights are just so massive.
> 
> I’m not saying Rock would be there every week, or be the day-to-day or anything. It’d just be associated with him and run by Dany Garcia and/or Brian Gerwirtz or something. Even they might be too high above it. But I can easily see them throwing $15 million in and another investor dropping the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> That’s probably a more realistic scenario. There’s just so much potential money in wrestling done right. Regardless of whether my crazy Rock scenario happens, more and more billionaires are going to take an interest in live entertainment. It wouldn’t be completely shocking to see MLW and the NWA get major cash injections, or something international pop up. I’m surprised China hasn’t launched a promotion to try and bring in the rights fees.


China is all about control. I would never want to see a China owned fed or actually any other sports company owned by a nation state.

Rock though is interesting. But I fear even he might get taken advantage of by the indy gymnasts. He kept his edge up until he agreed to job to Yawn Cena. He lost the sunglasses and the look he always had and became a smiling guy after that. It pains me to say that, but it happened. I WANT him to start a non-goofy fed, but I am not sure all the evidence supports that.

Best case, I would say with the Pandemic the NWA is on the market for cheap and Rock picks it up. Having that title and history PLUS the Rock's name gives you a ton of credibility. Rock is not going to be there every week, but he can still have a few matches and actually make one or two new stars that way. And no skinny geeks with hands in pockets please.


----------



## Klitschko

I know this is the AEW ratings thread, but with a lot of you asking for better story lines and more serious wrestling, did any of you ever think of checking out Impact? I know they do some stupid shit sometimes like Tessa being their world champion, but they also have some genuine good wrestling on there and I swear they are the best promotion currently when it comes to storylines. Their tag team division is stacked. Their womens division is stacked. There is some good storylines in the singles division. The main event scene doesn't have anyone thats a big name, but the story between Eric Young and Rich Swann is on point.


----------



## One Shed

Klitschko said:


> I know this is the AEW ratings thread, but with a lot of you asking for better story lines and more serious wrestling, did any of you ever think of checking out Impact? I know they do some stupid shit sometimes like Tessa being their world champion, but they also have some genuine good wrestling on there and I swear they are the best promotion currently when it comes to storylines. Their tag team division is stacked. Their womens division is stacked. There is some good storylines in the singles division. The main event scene doesn't have anyone thats a big name, but the story between Eric Young and Rich Swann is on point.


Honestly I did try, and several others I talk to here did too. The Wrestle House thing killed it for me, especially when they teleported. Insulting on all levels. I thought they were serious about relaunching after the Joey Ryan and Tessa nonsense especially making a big play for the Good Brothers, but no, it was right back to silly nonsense.


----------



## sim8

omaroo said:


> I do agree AEW might be defaul the no 2 company in the world but they are not "big" nor have the change the business in a major way.
> 
> Yes its good alternative to have but its not gona be what WCW was back in the day.
> 
> If they are also set on just sticking with their current audience they are doomed to fail as you will never grow and could eventually lose who you currently cater to.
> 
> Again people in charge TK and his moron execs clearly have no idea what they are doing.


AEW being launched put more money in the pockets of wrestlers as WWE had to fork out more to keep people. Just by the virtue of having a second company with prime time tv spot has helped the bargaining power of wrestlers. They also had the biggest PPV buyrate for wrestling outside of WWE in the past 20 years, proving their product does have an audience. Yes, AEW isn't as big as WCW in their heyday but they weren't expected to be a year into Dynamite airing. Will it ever happen? That's up for debate. But to say AEW hasn't changed the business in any major way is either unfair or just ignorance.


----------



## bdon

sim8 said:


> And I find your level of cynismism unwarranted haha but that's what makes talking about wrestling fun. I don't want to be spending time on a forum having my own opinions validated. I'm here to have my views broadened


Yep. I am all for hearing a different opinion. I share my thoughts hoping to hear something different that makes me stop and go, “Hmmm..?”

Many on here aren’t here for that, though.


----------



## The Wood

Jman55 said:


> This is why I always get confused when people call you a troll. Headstrong and occasionally abrasive yes I've been on the opposite side enough to know that and you sure have never hid you are against AEW but though I disagree often your opinions are usually pretty well thought out and reasoned and when I debate with you though my personal opinion rarely changes I do get more perspective on situations (and sometimes I'll just flat agree with you AEW's biggest issue to me has always been inconsistency they are good 80-85% of the time to me but when they are not good they are REALLY not good) and we have both had perfectly reasonable discussions with each other once we got past the initial "no I'm right" phase of sharing our opinions (like in Chip's original major former WWE guys thread when we talked about whether Trent should really count)
> 
> On the topic you guys were discussing yeah though AEW is a shake up it's not been the big massive turn around some people expected either it's just been a moderately successful wrestling company at least so far. A Rock lead company you are suggesting would probably prove to be a massive deal and could be an even bigger change in the business than AEW was due to his history in the business as well as current stardom. I feel it's unlikely to ever actually happen though but if by some miracle it did it would indeed be a massive deal and tbh I'd probably watch (I also agree that there is a bit of an untapped market for more purist wrestling though I doubt it'd actually get as big success as some hope it'd still be marketable enough to survive and be there for the people who don't want sports entertainment)


Thanks for taking the time to say that. I think it’s just easier for people to hear “negative” opinions and label someone a “troll.”



omaroo said:


> I do agree AEW might be defaul the no 2 company in the world but they are not "big" nor have the change the business in a major way.
> 
> Yes its good alternative to have but its not gona be what WCW was back in the day.
> 
> If they are also set on just sticking with their current audience they are doomed to fail as you will never grow and could eventually lose who you currently cater to.
> 
> Again people in charge TK and his moron execs clearly have no idea what they are doing.


I was thinking about this on my hike the other day: When do we get to mock AEW for their “Change the World” slogan that has been completely dropped? Not to be mean or anything, but it’s a part of their very early history that has been left in the dust. TNA doesn’t escape the scrutiny of its history. No promotion gets that.

It might be a fun thread to go back and look at the early press conferences and look at some of the promises (overt and implied) made and how they’ve turned out. There’s some dark and shady stuff in AEW’s history already (what the fuck happensd



Two Sheds said:


> China is all about control. I would never want to see a China owned fed or actually any other sports company owned by a nation state.
> 
> Rock though is interesting. But I fear even he might get taken advantage of by the indy gymnasts. He kept his edge up until he agreed to job to Yawn Cena. He lost the sunglasses and the look he always had and became a smiling guy after that. It pains me to say that, but it happened. I WANT him to start a non-goofy fed, but I am not sure all the evidence supports that.
> 
> Best case, I would say with the Pandemic the NWA is on the market for cheap and Rock picks it up. Having that title and history PLUS the Rock's name gives you a ton of credibility. Rock is not going to be there every week, but he can still have a few matches and actually make one or two new stars that way. And no skinny geeks with hands in pockets please.


The Rock actually does seem rather gentrified these days. I don’t agree that putting Cena over was a mistake, nor that it’s his wrestling persona, per se, but I’ve seen him wearing Lucha Underground shirts and the like. He just seems “happy” for wrestling without any real care given to the form it takes.

That being said, the world doesn’t need more sports entertainment. I’d hope that if he broke bank on a promotion, he’d look at what is missing. Guys who look like they can kick ass talking shit and then following through. It’s really that somple



Klitschko said:


> I know this is the AEW ratings thread, but with a lot of you asking for better story lines and more serious wrestling, did any of you ever think of checking out Impact? I know they do some stupid shit sometimes like Tessa being their world champion, but they also have some genuine good wrestling on there and I swear they are the best promotion currently when it comes to storylines. Their tag team division is stacked. Their womens division is stacked. There is some good storylines in the singles division. The main event scene doesn't have anyone thats a big name, but the story between Eric Young and Rich Swann is on point.


I appreciate you taking up for them, but the damage is done for me with TNA. I can try and forgive and forget, but sometimes a brand just becomes so tarnished. And some of their hiring practices make me think that they’re still really bush league. They’ve just got so much more work to do than someone ststting



sim8 said:


> AEW being launched put more money in the pockets of wrestlers as WWE had to fork out more to keep people. Just by the virtue of having a second company with prime time tv spot has helped the bargaining power of wrestlers. They also had the biggest PPV buyrate for wrestling outside of WWE in the past 20 years, proving their product does have an audience. Yes, AEW isn't as big as WCW in their heyday but they weren't expected to be a year into Dynamite airing. Will it ever happen? That's up for debate. But to say AEW hasn't changed the business in any major way is either unfair or just ignorance.


This is a good point. That’s one thing that AEW has contributed. That is until the bubble snaps back and Vince realises (like he apparently he did with Rey) that there isn’t really an option. And because AEW hasn’t popped as much as it should, it’s going to be harder to retain the big names. $45 million doesn’t leave much room to pay $10 million out to Jericho, JR and Moxley.

As far as PPVs go, and you’re a smart person, so you should be able to grasp this — the whole “best buyrates outside of WWE in 20 years” point is so silly. They’re the ONLY company doing PPV in that period, outside of TNA, and I know TNA has its supporters here, but it’s TNA.

AEW isn’t doing better domestically than ECW. It isn’t doing better than WCW. It’s doing better than TNA on PPV. That’s what people are saying when they raise that point. Is that really where you want to plant your flag?


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> This is a good point. That’s one thing that AEW has contributed. That is until the bubble snaps back and Vince realises (like he apparently he did with Rey) that there isn’t really an option. And because AEW hasn’t popped as much as it should, it’s going to be harder to retain the big names. $45 million doesn’t leave much room to pay $10 million out to Jericho, JR and Moxley.
> 
> As far as PPVs go, and you’re a smart person, so you should be able to grasp this — the whole “best buyrates outside of WWE in 20 years” point is so silly. They’re the ONLY company doing PPV in that period, outside of TNA, and I know TNA has its supporters here, but it’s TNA.
> 
> AEW isn’t doing better domestically than ECW. It isn’t doing better than WCW. It’s doing better than TNA on PPV. That’s what people are saying when they raise that point. Is that really where you want to plant your flag?


I'm going to number my points just to have some semblance of coherence in my response 

1) you're using hypothetical what ifs of what Vince may or may not think in the future. Is the salary level rise temporary or will it become permanent like how Nash and Hall made guaranteed downside contracts permanent (that didn't go away after WCW folded and WWE had no incentive to continue offering them). Who knows which way it will go. But I'm not going to use something that hasn't happened yet, and in fact may not happen at all as a reason to downplay how big this is for the industry that AEW helped wrestlers bottom line.

2) You say there was nobody doing PPVs in that time period. Another way of saying that is nobody else ever tried (except TNA but I'll get to them in my next point). AEW actually took the punt and tried it. And they succeeded. That is big. Maybe other companies didn't try because they didn't have the right infrastructure or talent or capital etc but whatever the reason, they didnt. AEW did. It's easy to look back and say All In was always going to be successful and AEW was always going to do well as a start-up but it wasn't. There a million and one things that could have gone wrong. But they succeeded. They should be applauded for taking the leap when nobody else did.

3) TNA absolutely had visions and desires to fulfil the hole left by WCW but they never did through shitty management, shitty booking and being an incoherent mess. They failed to ever get the buyrates in their entire existence AEW did in their first show. No I do not want AEW to be compared to TNA because AEW has already proven to be above that.

4) Dixie Carter and Billy Corgan are both millionaires and neither of them were able to use their resources to do what Tony Khan did. In Dixies case, she actually was willing to pour money into TNA but bad management and booking ruined TNA. Corgan is a bit more smarter and isn't trying to scale up NWA to compete on the level AEW is. Tony is the only guy who has been able to use his resources to scale up a wrestling company to a level where it feels big, and he got rewarded for it by having the biggest buyrates since WCW outside of WWE. Why shouldn't we give credit to his decision to take that risk. 

5) AEWs buyrates are less than ECW and WCW. But AEW is also a brand new company in a colder period for wrestling. But let's have a quick look at WCW. Let's say they averaged around 5 million viewers at their peak, and their average PPV buys were around 350k. That means a 7% conversion rate. AEW has around 100k PPV buys on average and for easy maths sake let's round their average viewership to 1m. Thats a 10% conversion rate which is better than WCW.


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> I'm going to number my points just to have some semblance of coherence in my response
> 
> 1) you're using hypothetical what ifs of what Vince may or may not think in the future. Is the salary level rise temporary or will it become permanent like how Nash and Hall made guaranteed downside contracts permanent (that didn't go away after WCW folded and WWE had no incentive to continue offering them). Who knows which way it will go. But I'm not going to use something that hasn't happened yet, and in fact may not happen at all as a reason to downplay how big this is for the industry that AEW helped wrestlers bottom line.
> 
> 2) You say there was nobody doing PPVs in that time period. Another way of saying that is nobody else ever tried (except TNA but I'll get to them in my next point). AEW actually took the punt and tried it. And they succeeded. That is big. Maybe other companies didn't try because they didn't have the right infrastructure or talent or capital etc but whatever the reason, they didnt. AEW did. It's easy to look back and say All In was always going to be successful and AEW was always going to do well as a start-up but it wasn't. There a million and one things that could have gone wrong. But they succeeded. They should be applauded for taking the leap when nobody else did.
> 
> 3) TNA absolutely had visions and desires to fulfil the hole left by WCW but they never did through shitty management, shitty booking and being an incoherent mess. They failed to ever get the buyrates in their entire existence AEW did in their first show. No I do not want AEW to be compared to TNA because AEW has already proven to be above that.
> 
> 4) Dixie Carter and Billy Corgan are both millionaires and neither of them were able to use their resources to do what Tony Khan did. In Dixies case, she actually was willing to pour money into TNA but bad management and booking ruined TNA. Corgan is a bit more smarter and isn't trying to scale up NWA to compete on the level AEW is. Tony is the only guy who has been able to use his resources to scale up a wrestling company to a level where it feels big, and he got rewarded for it by having the biggest buyrates since WCW outside of WWE. Why shouldn't we give credit to his decision to take that risk.
> 
> 5) AEWs buyrates are less than ECW and WCW. But AEW is also a brand new company in a colder period for wrestling. But let's have a quick look at WCW. Let's say they averaged around 5 million viewers at their peak, and their average PPV buys were around 350k. That means a 7% conversion rate. AEW has around 100k PPV buys on average and for easy maths sake let's round their average viewership to 1m. Thats a 10% conversion rate which is better than WCW.


1) Sure. But you also can’t say it’s permanent either. The money comes from TV rights fees, and if they fall through, the money does. No one is signing deals that TNT has to honour if AEW goes bust.

2) That’s irrelevant, really. It’s a cute point, but my gripe is with people using “the most PPV buys in 20 years” to prove popularity when there is no competition.

3) All true about TNA. I think more of it is true about AEW than you’d like. I wouldn’t want them compared either, but we’re inching closer.

4) Shad Khan is a billionaire. The whole AEW scheme is to do something bigger with basically an unlimited pool of money. That was the pitch, anyway. Panda Energy and Billy Corgan weren’t going to/going to be able to sink 9 figures into wrestling. AEW has bought its place.

5) Being new doesn’t mean you can’t be successful. This is a myth that needs to be done away with. Being new can mean you are fresh. It can be advantageous. WCW and ECW, yes, thrived in a period where wrestling was better and less insulting. They also existed in a time of terrestrial PPV where PPV buys probably counted for more heads per buy too.

It’s a cute point about AEW concerting a larger segment of its audience. That is something they do well, but it comes with a hazard. They have the most hardcore audience, which doesn’t always breed sustained loyalty. It highlights which fans aren’t there. It can say something about the accessibility of the product too.

I’d be more impressed with 2 million viewers and 5% conversion rate than $1 million and 10%. But a lot of people won’t get that.


----------



## Not Lying

This is The Woods 3 month ago









AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread 2: OH...


^More nothing




www.wrestlingforum.com







> Why do people think that AEW is going to go up? There is no evidence-based reasoning to support this hypothesis. It is going to keep trending down. Raw has a better chance of recouping a couple of fans.


So with AEW going up by 25% since then, and RAW still being stagnant and dropping. Can we start ignoring this geek who has no idea what he's talking about?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> This is The Woods 3 month ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread 2: OH...
> 
> 
> ^More nothing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So with AEW going up by 25% since then, and RAW still being stagnant and dropping. Can we start ignoring this geek who has no idea what he's talking about?


So three months ago he would've been referencing the 15.07.2020 episode of Dynamite which did an overall rating of 788,000

This past weeks edition of AEW Dynamite? 753,000. Even if you want to argue about the presidential debate AEW has only managed an increase of less than 200,000 since then with the highest in the past month being 886,000 (Just 133,000 more in a 3 month period)

So yes, on a technicality you win but I'm sure Wood meant a significant ratings boost.

I think a more interesting discussion point is how AEW has gone from 1.4 million viewers this time last year to an average of about 800,000 now. That's a drop of over *SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND* people


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> So three months ago he would've been referencing the *15.07.2020 episode of Dynamite which did an overall rating of 788,000*
> 
> This past weeks edition of AEW Dynamite? 753,000. Even if you want to argue about the presidential debate AEW has only managed an increase of less than 200,000 since then with the highest in the past month being 886,000 (Just 133,000 more in a 3 month period)
> 
> So yes, on a technicality you win but I'm sure Wood meant a significant ratings boost.
> 
> I think a more interesting discussion point is how AEW has gone from 1.4 million viewers this time last year to an average of about 800,000 now. That's a drop of over *SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND* people


Yeah that episode had Moxley vs Cage. Before that was all the doom and gloom when AEW didn't have Mox and NXT had Sasha. And April/May were also down.
They've had a 25% increase of viewership in the same period, and that geek predicted they would stay stagnant or fall and RAW would rise LMAO.

Edit: I just checked btw, he was referencing the July 8 episode, which did 715K (so not even 788K). lol He really thought they wouldn't grow past that lmao.

Nah, stop baiting people with this stupid 1.4m crap.
1-Wrestling isn't for everyone. Many people gave it a shot and didn't like it.
2- Many probably though it would have more people/Stars they knew, with the lack of they tuned out. (And that's not on AEW, they don't have to pay anyone more than they want to, they can grow an audience from whatever niche they want).
3- Fucking almost every TV shows drop and continues to drop after after season premier or premier episode.

If you weren't so hell bent on being stupid with this 1.4m crap ONE TIME, you would see that the average month of October vs now, it isn't that far off drop.
Just wait till the crowd is back ^^


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> This is The Woods 3 month ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread 2: OH...
> 
> 
> ^More nothing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So with AEW going up by 25% since then, and RAW still being stagnant and dropping. Can we start ignoring this geek who has no idea what he's talking about?


They did <800k viewers this week. That ain’t fucking growing. It’s the same batch of fans going between AEW and NXT each and every week. You are beginning to go Garty. Don’t go Garty.



The Definition of Technician said:


> Yeah that episode had Moxley vs Cage. Before that was all the doom and gloom when AEW didn't have Mox and NXT had Sasha. And April/May were also down.
> They've had a 25% increase of viewership in the same period, and that geek predicted they would stay stagnant or fall and RAW would rise LMAO.
> 
> Edit: I just checked btw, he was referencing the July 8 episode, which did 715K (so not even 788K). lol He really thought they wouldn't grow past that lmao.
> 
> Nah, stop baiting people with this stupid 1.4m crap.
> 1-Wrestling isn't for everyone. Many people gave it a shot and didn't like it.
> 2- Many probably though it would have more people/Stars they knew, with the lack of they tuned out. (And that's not on AEW, they don't have to pay anyone more than they want to, they can grow an audience from whatever niche they want).
> 3- Fucking almost every TV shows drop and continues to drop after after season premier or premier episode.
> 
> If you weren't so hell bent on being stupid with this 1.4m crap ONE TIME, you would see that the average month of October vs now, it isn't that far off drop.
> Just wait till the crowd is back ^^


Lol at the assumption it was people who had never seen wrestling before. They started on a potential 1.4 million fans and they lost them. It’s that simple.

By the way, 800k is 57% of 1.4 million. Where is this idea they are growing coming from?


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> 1) Sure. But you also can’t say it’s permanent either. The money comes from TV rights fees, and if they fall through, the money does. No one is signing deals that TNT has to honour if AEW goes bust.
> 
> 2) That’s irrelevant, really. It’s a cute point, but my gripe is with people using “the most PPV buys in 20 years” to prove popularity when there is no competition.
> 
> 3) All true about TNA. I think more of it is true about AEW than you’d like. I wouldn’t want them compared either, but we’re inching closer.
> 
> 4) Shad Khan is a billionaire. The whole AEW scheme is to do something bigger with basically an unlimited pool of money. That was the pitch, anyway. Panda Energy and Billy Corgan weren’t going to/going to be able to sink 9 figures into wrestling. AEW has bought its place.
> 
> 5) Being new doesn’t mean you can’t be successful. This is a myth that needs to be done away with. Being new can mean you are fresh. It can be advantageous. WCW and ECW, yes, thrived in a period where wrestling was better and less insulting. They also existed in a time of terrestrial PPV where PPV buys probably counted for more heads per buy too.
> 
> It’s a cute point about AEW concerting a larger segment of its audience. That is something they do well, but it comes with a hazard. They have the most hardcore audience, which doesn’t always breed sustained loyalty. It highlights which fans aren’t there. It can say something about the accessibility of the product too.
> 
> I’d be more impressed with 2 million viewers and 5% conversion rate than $1 million and 10%. But a lot of people won’t get that.


1) So we are in agreement it is something we can say is neither confirmed to be permanent or temporary? In that case, let's judge it for what it is right now, which is AEW has increased the salary base line for now. So for now, that's a credit to AEW. We can revisit that in 3 years time when AEW is coming up for renewal and see where TV rights fee ends up for them

2) The whole argument about most buyrates in 20 years doesn't show mainstream popularity but it shows AEW has a loyal niche of audience that have been consistently bought their PPVs from May 2019 to now. We all want AEW to grow and do bigger numbers for their TV and PPV but their retention rate is still impressive. TNA tried to grow their numbers too but ended up alienating their core loyal fan base. If AEW is able to slowly gain momentum and gain more viewers while satisfying their core, they may be on to a winner. It will take time though because it is a new show.

3) We aren't inching closer to AEW being like TNA at all. The biggest reason why TNA is used as a barometer to AEW is because TNA tried to do what AEW is doing but failed miserably. So it's more of a let's compare the two to make sure AEW doesnt make the same mistakes. AEW is doing really well for itself, beating projections set by themselves and TNT. We can argue how they should be pulling in more viewers but that will come with time hopefully.

4) Oh yeah sorry, billionaire not millionaire. Just like Panda Energy. We will never quite know how much money was sunk in TNA because it is a Private company but we all know it was hundreds of millions, which is more than enough to make a successful wrestling show if utilised properly. TNA had it all at one point. The money, the TV deal, and a badass roster but they still failed.

Tony Khan has gone on record to say he pitched AEW as a proper business proposal to his father which indicates a budget, not an unlimited pool of money. April 2020 was also meant to be the first month where they turn a profit before the pandemic ruined that, which was ahead of their own internal projections.

You're absolutely right, AEW and Tony used their money and contacts to buy a place in wrestling, just like TNA and Dixie. But they aren't forcing people to watch, and more importantly spend money on their PPVs and merchandise. And they definitely didn't force TNT to give them a 4 year TV deal. There's only so much a Billionaire can buy. At some point, he will need his TV partners and wrestling fans to reciprocate that.

5) Being new means fresh, sure. It also means not having in a built in audience. For example, the first season of GOT only had 2 million or so viewers on average before their final season had an average of 12 million. And wrestling is a niche product so it will take time for casuals and lapsed fans to hear about it and give it a chance. It is normal for successful shows to start moderately and grow over time. The real debate is if AEW will be able to do that and that's simply something we have to wait and see.

6) I agree with how wrestling should be for the large part uninsulting etc not to say there isn't a place for OC, Marko Stunt etc but they aren't main event level talent. AEW needs to have clearer lines drawn. AEW isn't perfect but it is still a lot of fun for me. Maybe I'm just more forgiving but as long as I'm still actively looking forward to Dynamite each week, more good is being done than harm. Not saying things shouldnt be fixed. Absolutely they should but with the criticism, you gotta give the praise.

7) Yep, true. 2 million and a 5% conversion rate would be better than the 1 million and 10% conversion rate because higher tv viewership (which includes a higher number for the key demo) leads to better tv rights deal in the future while maintaining the 100k average for PPVs. Plus gives AEW a bigger pool of viewers to try to convince to spend money on PPVs which if successful, leads to more money in the bank.

But what I'm saying is although WCW did bigger numbers, AEW is inspiring more loyalty from their smaller fanbase. Hardcore fans can be fickle as you said and that is a concern but if AEW is able to scale up their fan base while maintaining that 10% conversion rate then that is the absolute key to their future success. You're worried about the accessibility of the product and that's always a concern in wrestling but AEW is showing they are doing better in the present than they sometimes get credit for.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> They did <800k viewers this week. That ain’t fucking growing. It’s the same batch of fans going between AEW and NXT each and every week. You are beginning to go Garty. Don’t go Garty.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol at the assumption it was people who had never seen wrestling before. They started on a potential 1.4 million fans and they lost them. It’s that simple.
> 
> By the way, 800k is 57% of 1.4 million. Where is this idea they are growing coming from?


Only an idiot takes a 1 week off (like the premier and the one vs a debate).
I've proved to you before they grew 25% between June and September. But you are so arrogant and too delusional to admit you WERE DEAS ASSS WRONG LMAOO. Now you're reaching by going with a one-off vs a presidential debate. What a troll. Bravo. Nobody takes you seriously.

You said RAW would rise and AEW would stay stagnant and it's the complete reverse that happened you little geek. They proved you wrong in just 3 months of good booking.

Anyone who's ever done statistics or studies knows that the 1.4 is what you'd call a fucking outlier, and that in fact, does not figure much in the grand scheme of things, in fact it gets eliminated when analyzing growth.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> Only an idiot takes a 1 week off (like the premier and the one vs a debate).
> I've proved to you before they grew 25% between June and September. But you are so arrogant and too delusional to admit you WERE DEAS ASSS WRONG LMAOO. Now you're reaching by going with a one-off vs a presidential debate. What a troll. Bravo. Nobody takes you seriously.
> 
> You said RAW would rise and AEW would stay stagnant and it's the complete reverse that happened you little geek. They proved you wrong in just 3 months of good booking.
> 
> Anyone who's ever done statistics or studies knows that the 1.4 is what you'd call a fucking outlier, and that in fact, does not figure much in the grand scheme of things, in fact it gets eliminated when analyzing growth.


They get 800k viewers all the time. Wtf does June to September have to do with anything? That sounds arbitrary. I’m looking at their entire history. Their numbers aren’t impressive. Soz.

They had a chance to impress people. They didn’t. That’s why they didn’t come back. They have failed to grow a viewership past the people that were initially interested. That’s why they occupy the same range all the time.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> Yeah that episode had Moxley vs Cage. Before that was all the doom and gloom when AEW didn't have Mox and NXT had Sasha. And April/May were also down.
> They've had a 25% increase of viewership in the same period, and that geek predicted they would stay stagnant or fall and RAW would rise LMAO.
> 
> Edit: I just checked btw, he was referencing the July 8 episode, which did 715K (so not even 788K). lol He really thought they wouldn't grow past that lmao.
> 
> Nah, stop baiting people with this stupid 1.4m crap.
> 1-Wrestling isn't for everyone. Many people gave it a shot and didn't like it.
> 2- Many probably though it would have more people/Stars they knew, with the lack of they tuned out. (And that's not on AEW, they don't have to pay anyone more than they want to, they can grow an audience from whatever niche they want).
> 3- Fucking almost every TV shows drop and continues to drop after after season premier or premier episode.
> 
> If you weren't so hell bent on being stupid with this 1.4m crap ONE TIME, you would see that the average month of October vs now, it isn't that far off drop.
> Just wait till the crowd is back ^^


No bait. My thought process on the 1.4 million is that you had 1.4 million people as a potential TV audience for AEW Dynamite plus whatever the streaming audience was (Don't think it'd be too far out to say that the debut edition of Dynamite did 2.0 million or more)

That 1.4 million and potential 2.0 million audience is probably closer to half that now across both mediums. As for your points:

1. You should be aware that non wrestling fans weren't tuning in for AEW. It was wrestling fans tuning in who either used to love wrestling and were giving it a chance or were hardcore AEW fans. Close to half have been run off by bad booking and admittedly a poor first episode of Dynamite.

2. Apart from CM Punk (Who heaps of people here have called irrelevant) and Goldberg what stars could AEW even have debuted on the first show? They signed every major free agent in wrestling. Again, it wasn't a lack of stars just a poor debut episode. Not that the show was bad overall but long matches and little drama doesn't give people a reason to tune back in.

3. Famous TV shows that have improved ratings after a year of being on the air:

Friends (Increase of 4.9 million in 12 months)

Seinfeld (1.8 million increase in 12 months)

Two And A Half Men (700,000 increase in 12 months)


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> They get 800k viewers all the time. Wtf does June to September have to do with anything? *That sounds arbitrary.* I’m looking at their entire history. Their numbers aren’t impressive. Soz.
> 
> They had a chance to impress people. They didn’t. That’s why they didn’t come back. They have failed to grow a viewership past the people that were initially interested. That’s why they occupy the same range all the time.


No it's not arbitrary.
I notice trends, long run and short run.
After the pandemic hit, their numbers *were hit big time in April-May-June*, and *you said* they will not grow from there. You were wrong because clearly in the pandemic era, they HAVE grown, over the past 3 months whether you want to admit it or not.
You still fail to realize the importance of this growth. 20-25% is not a fucking small number, it took them from a top 20 cable show to a top 5 cable show.

And then If I want to look at long run threads, I'll look at the average of Oct/November vs Now, and Oct/Nov is probably at most 100K higher, inflated by the outlier first episode, and that was with a live fucking crowd.
So if by year on year they lost 100K viewers, and are now getting their Nov/December level ratings WITHOUT A CROWD, I'll say fuck off with you analysis because you can only see it at such a minuscule (1 offs) level that doesn't make any sense

1.4m to 800K












Chip Chipperson said:


> No bait. My thought process on the 1.4 million is that you had 1.4 million people as a potential TV audience for AEW Dynamite plus whatever the streaming audience was (Don't think it'd be too far out to say that the debut edition of Dynamite did 2.0 million or more)
> 
> That 1.4 million and potential 2.0 million audience is probably closer to half that now across both mediums. As for your points:
> 
> 1. You should be aware that non wrestling fans weren't tuning in for AEW. It was wrestling fans tuning in who either used to love wrestling and were giving it a chance or were hardcore AEW fans. Close to half have been run off by bad booking and admittedly a poor first episode of Dynamite.
> 
> 2. Apart from CM Punk (Who heaps of people here have called irrelevant) and Goldberg what stars could AEW even have debuted on the first show? They signed every major free agent in wrestling. Again, it wasn't a lack of stars just a poor debut episode. Not that the show was bad overall but long matches and little drama doesn't give people a reason to tune back in.
> 
> 3. Famous TV shows that have improved ratings after a year of being on the air:
> 
> Friends (Increase of 4.9 million in 12 months)
> 
> Seinfeld (1.8 million increase in 12 months)
> 
> Two And A Half Men (700,000 increase in 12 months)


Closer to half? 😂 😂
They literally had 1m+ viewers a couple of weeks ago on cable TV vs no competition. *So that's it*, the *entire* half decided to watch? No one else from the streaming audience? no one else missed it?😂😂
Nope, so this is another brainless claim.

1- You have ZERO proof of this. AEW was promoted heavily and it could have easily intrigued people who decided "nope, not for me".

2- From the lapsed fans, you had a lot of people claiming a lot of legends would show up and make appearances on the first show.

3-I SAID MOST. Look at live shows like Idol, Got Talent, The Voice, many premiers of most TV series today, how they do today in season premier and later.

Lol at trying to prove me wrong by chosing shows from the 90s. Fact is, most shows lose viewers after their debut, and then they build back up again if they're good.


----------



## sim8

Chip Chipperson said:


> No bait. My thought process on the 1.4 million is that you had 1.4 million people as a potential TV audience for AEW Dynamite plus whatever the streaming audience was (Don't think it'd be too far out to say that the debut edition of Dynamite did 2.0 million or more)
> 
> That 1.4 million and potential 2.0 million audience is probably closer to half that now across both mediums. As for your points:
> 
> 1. You should be aware that non wrestling fans weren't tuning in for AEW. It was wrestling fans tuning in who either used to love wrestling and were giving it a chance or were hardcore AEW fans. Close to half have been run off by bad booking and admittedly a poor first episode of Dynamite.
> 
> 2. Apart from CM Punk (Who heaps of people here have called irrelevant) and Goldberg what stars could AEW even have debuted on the first show? They signed every major free agent in wrestling. Again, it wasn't a lack of stars just a poor debut episode. Not that the show was bad overall but long matches and little drama doesn't give people a reason to tune back in.
> 
> 3. Famous TV shows that have improved ratings after a year of being on the air:
> 
> Friends (Increase of 4.9 million in 12 months)
> 
> Seinfeld (1.8 million increase in 12 months)
> 
> Two And A Half Men (700,000 increase in 12 months)


Just want to respond to point 3. Friends, Seinfield, and Two and a half men are all sitcoms which are a completely different genre. Wrestling is a bit more niche where the fan base is rabid but a lot of them may be embarrassed to go to work and tell their colleagues or friends about this new wrestling show. You don't get that same stigma for sitcoms. 

At the same time, I do believe in the idea viewerships grow over time for pretty much all successful shows and Dynamite won't be any different if it is ultimately to be a long term success. But important to take in account the stigmas around wrestling over the past 2 decades especially with the rise of UFC, WWE creating this child friendly image for the industry as a whole etc


----------



## sim8

The Definition of Technician said:


> No it's not arbitrary.
> I notice trends, long run and short run.
> After the pandemic hit, their numbers *were hit big time in April-May-June*, and *you said* they will not grow from there. You were wrong because clearly in the pandemic era, they HAVE grown, over the past 3 months whether you want to admit it or not.
> You still fail to realize the importance of this growth. 20-25% is not a fucking small number, it took them from a top 20 cable show to a top 5 cable show.
> 
> And then If I want to look at long run threads, I'll look at the average of Oct/November vs Now, and Oct/Nov is probably at most 100K higher, inflated by the outlier first episode, and that was with a live fucking crowd.
> So if by year on year they lost 100K viewers, and are now getting their Nov/December level ratings WITHOUT A CROWD, I'll say fuck off with you analysis because you can only see it at such a minuscule (1 offs) level that doesn't make any sense
> 
> 1.4m to 800K


I think in essence the pandemic has really fucked up AEWs viewership patterns to some degree. It's funny because when the pandemic first started, I genuinely thought there was a case to be made that corona could lead to a small boom for wrestling tv shows. I was wrong in that


----------



## Not Lying

sim8 said:


> I think in essence the pandemic has really fucked up AEWs viewership patterns to some degree. It's funny because when the pandemic first started, I genuinely thought there was a case to be made that corona could lead to a small boom for wrestling tv shows. I was wrong in that


None of my casual friends have even attempted to watch any show with no Crowd. The only thing i could get them to watch was the Misterio drama on RAW by youtube clips.
It's kind of ridiculous to think wrestling would be big w/o the crowd.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> No it's not arbitrary.
> I notice trends, long run and short run.
> After the pandemic hit, their numbers *were hit big time in April-May-June*, and *you said* they will not grow from there. You were wrong because clearly in the pandemic era, they HAVE grown, over the past 3 months whether you want to admit it or not.
> You still fail to realize the importance of this growth. 20-25% is not a fucking small number, it took them from a top 20 cable show to a top 5 cable show.
> 
> And then If I want to look at long run threads, I'll look at the average of Oct/November vs Now, and Oct/Nov is probably at most 100K higher, inflated by the outlier first episode, and that was with a live fucking crowd.
> So if by year on year they lost 100K viewers, and are now getting their Nov/December level ratings WITHOUT A CROWD, I'll say fuck off with you analysis because you can only see it at such a minuscule (1 offs) level that doesn't make any sense
> 
> 1.4m to 800K


Lol, “I notice trends.” Pompous much? Especially for someone who seems to let a lot slip by.

Don’t put words into my mouth, liar. I wasn’t talking about March-September, I have been speaking about the show overall, which has not seen growth, let alone significant growth. But you’re not above lying.

I also didn’t say that Raw will grow. I said that Raw was the only one holding steady, which was true. Now it’s probably dropped a little. I honestly haven’t followed its numbers. I think they increased with Prichard, then dropped, then went up with the Dome gimmick, then went down. So?

And 20-25% in pandemic times when the viewership is so small isn’t that impressive. 25% of 4 is 1. I’m not impressed when you end up with 5.

Lol, more of this “without live crowds” shit. AEW crowds don’t help as much as you think. They’re not exactly a cosmetically appealing or influential bunch.

And of course you’ve got to try and insult people because it’s all you’ve got. You’re doing the Garty thing. Be careful.


----------



## sim8

The Definition of Technician said:


> None of my casual friends have even attempted to watch any show with no Crowd. The only thing i could get them to watch was the Misterio drama on RAW by youtube clips.
> It's kind of ridiculous to think wrestling would be big w/o the crowd.


It was the only live 'sport' for awhile so not unreasonable to think it may benefit from that. Unfortunately it didn't


----------



## Chip Chipperson

sim8 said:


> Just want to respond to point 3. Friends, Seinfield, and Two and a half men are all sitcoms which are a completely different genre. Wrestling is a bit more niche where the fan base is rabid but a lot of them may be embarrassed to go to work and tell their colleagues or friends about this new wrestling show. You don't get that same stigma for sitcoms.
> 
> At the same time, I do believe in the idea viewerships grow over time for pretty much all successful shows and Dynamite won't be any different if it is ultimately to be a long term success. But important to take in account the stigmas around wrestling over the past 2 decades especially with the rise of UFC, WWE creating this child friendly image for the industry as a whole etc


AEW Dynamite - Loss of 600,000 in it's first year.

ECW On TNN - Increase of 100,000 in it's first year.

RAW - Increase of 200,000 in it's first year.

TNA Impact - Increase of 300,000 in it's first year.

WCW Nitro - Increase of 800,000 in it's first year


----------



## The Wood

hey


Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW Dynamite - Loss of 600,000 in it's first year.
> 
> ECW On TNN - Increase of 100,000 in it's first year.
> 
> RAW - Increase of 200,000 in it's first year.
> 
> TNA Impact - Increase of 300,000 in it's first year.
> 
> WCW Nitro - Increase of 800,000 in it's first year


You can’t compare wrestling to wrestling.


----------



## The Wood

1.4 million was a pretty weak number, honestly. I wouldn’t call it “horrible,” but when you can’t do better than a 3-hour Raw (which by all accounts is horrible) with a 2-hour “priority” show, then you’re probably not doing this thing as well as it can be done.

NOTE: I didn’t expect them to beat Raw from the start, but they absolutely could have trended in that direction, no matter what anyone setting the bar lower tells you.


----------



## sim8

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW Dynamite - Loss of 600,000 in it's first year.
> 
> ECW On TNN - Increase of 100,000 in it's first year.
> 
> RAW - Increase of 200,000 in it's first year.
> 
> TNA Impact - Increase of 300,000 in it's first year.
> 
> WCW Nitro - Increase of 800,000 in it's first year


ECW, RAW and Nitro were at a time when there were less choices and less ways to watch. So as long as the shows were appealing, people would watch and prop that viewership up. People consume shows differently now. I genuinely don't watch traditional TV anymore except a local soap which I record and watch on my own time. That means even if the show is good and I enjoy it, Im probably not helping the viewership overnight figures. You can't compare Dynamite to shows from two decades ago without looking at variables and how technology and viewing habits have changed. It's not a like for like comparison so sending me numbers like that is misleading. 

Regarding TNA, the same argument can be made about habits have changed over time but I'm interesting in TNA a bit more. Would you have a link to the viewership please. Just want to have a look myself at something


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> hey
> 
> 
> You can’t compare wrestling to wrestling.


Mate, I know you're taking the piss but what you can't do is compare the first year of a show in the 90s to a the first year of a show in 2020 regardless of genre. So much has changed that it wouldnt be a like for like. We can use those shows as a barometer for sure but we have to be mindful of the way the world has changed since


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> hey
> 
> 
> You can’t compare wrestling to wrestling.


Really, if we objectively look at what AEW served up on Episode 1 every match featured was over 10 minutes except for an MJF squash and the angles weren't particularly exciting. The longest match was between Nyla Rose and Riho and the ending was Jake Hager debuting.

That is what turned people off, it wasn't some mythical expectation of legends or anything like that. AEW had one chance to shine and they provided a show that caters to the hardcore wrestling fans instead of the casuals.


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW Dynamite - Loss of 600,000 in it's first year.
> 
> ECW On TNN - Increase of 100,000 in it's first year.
> 
> RAW - Increase of 200,000 in it's first year.
> 
> TNA Impact - Increase of 300,000 in it's first year.
> 
> WCW Nitro - Increase of 800,000 in it's first year


2020 vs 1980's where you still live.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

sim8 said:


> ECW, RAW and Nitro were at a time when there were less choices and less ways to watch. So as long as the shows were appealing, people would watch and prop that viewership up. People consume shows differently now. I genuinely don't watch traditional TV anymore except a local soap which I record and watch on my own time. That means even if the show is good and I enjoy it, Im probably not helping the viewership overnight figures. You can't compare Dynamite to shows from two decades ago without looking at variables and how technology and viewing habits have changed. It's not a like for like comparison so sending me numbers like that is misleading.
> 
> Regarding TNA, the same argument can be made about habits have changed over time but I'm interesting in TNA a bit more. Would you have a link to the viewership please. Just want to have a look myself at something


Impact Ratings:









TNA Impact Wrestling Television Ratings | 2xzone.com


View historical NWA-TNA iMPACT television ratings.




www.2xzone.com


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> 2020 vs 1980's where you still live.


None of those shows started in the 1980's. You're struggling mate.


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> None of those shows started in the 1980's. You're struggling mate.


Hyperbole to make a point.
You know TV isn't the same as it was literally 10 years ago (and if you don' gtfo out of the ratings thread or shut up and get educated). And you know WWE stank up wrestling over the past 10 years.



The Wood said:


> *1.4 million was a pretty weak number, honestly. I wouldn’t call it “horrible,” but when you can’t do better than a 3-hour Raw* (which by all accounts is horrible) with a 2-hour “priority” show, then you’re probably not doing this thing as well as it can be done.
> 
> NOTE: I didn’t expect them to beat Raw from the start, but they absolutely could have trended in that direction, no matter what anyone setting the bar lower tells you.


Well this might be stupidest shit i've ever seen posted here.
A start-up on Wednesday night was supposed to beat the longest running weekly episodic show in the US.
What a joke.



The Wood said:


> Lol, “I notice trends.” Pompous much? Especially for someone who seems to let a lot slip by.
> 
> Don’t put words into my mouth, liar. I wasn’t talking about March-September, I have been speaking about the show overall, which has not seen growth, let alone significant growth. But you’re not above lying.
> 
> I also didn’t say that Raw will grow. I said that Raw was the only one holding steady, which was true. Now it’s probably dropped a little. I honestly haven’t followed its numbers. I think they increased with Prichard, then dropped, then went up with the Dome gimmick, then went down. So?
> 
> And 20-25% in pandemic times when the viewership is so small isn’t that impressive. 25% of 4 is 1. I’m not impressed when you end up with 5.
> 
> Lol, more of this “without live crowds” shit. AEW crowds don’t help as much as you think. They’re not exactly a cosmetically appealing or influential bunch.
> 
> And of course you’ve got to try and insult people because it’s all you’ve got. You’re doing the Garty thing. Be careful.


If increasing by 25% and going from a top 20 cable show to a top 5 cable show doesn't impress you, then i'll tell you what i told you before, they're not there to there to impress a bunch of trolls and haters who make shit up to shit on them.


----------



## sim8

Chip Chipperson said:


> Impact Ratings:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNA Impact Wrestling Television Ratings | 2xzone.com
> 
> 
> View historical NWA-TNA iMPACT television ratings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.2xzone.com


Cheers


----------



## sim8

Chip Chipperson said:


> Really, if we objectively look at what AEW served up on Episode 1 every match featured was over 10 minutes except for an MJF squash and the angles weren't particularly exciting. The longest match was between Nyla Rose and Riho and the ending was Jake Hager debuting.
> 
> That is what turned people off, it wasn't some mythical expectation of legends or anything like that. AEW had one chance to shine and they provided a show that caters to the hardcore wrestling fans instead of the casuals.


That's the honest truth of it. I watched the first episode again recently and so many things were being planted for the future that it actually stands up as an episode but at the time it was a bit of a let down. Unfortunately people didn't stick around to give it time to sort of mature and get better but you can't blame them for that


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> Hyperbole to make a point.
> You know TV isn't the same as it was literally 10 years ago (and if you don' gtfo out of the ratings thread or shut up and get educated). And you know WWE stank up wrestling over the past 10 years.


So we can't compare AEW to sitcoms, we can't compare AEW to other wrestling shows so what are we meant to compare AEW to?

I think it's a cop out to be honest with you mate. You refuse to accept that AEW tanked the ratings somehow instead grasping at anything you can to excuse them.



sim8 said:


> That's the honest truth of it. I watched the first episode again recently and so many things were being planted for the future that it actually stands up as an episode but at the time it was a bit of a let down. Unfortunately people didn't stick around to give it time to sort of mature and get better but you can't blame them for that


Meanwhile, you get it.

I think with debut shows you can plant some seeds but I would've had that big night feeling. I definitely would've had a big star set to debut on the night even if it was someone I had to hold off on debuting just to make TV seem bigger. If I couldn't get Punk I would've had Moxley be the big surprise on the debut show. I would've got some real celebrities to appear as well, Jay and Silent Bob are guys from stoner movies I think I would've paid some big money to get a decently well known band in or even pulled some favours to get a B-List celebrity in the crowd.

I definitely wouldn't have bored my audience with a number of cold matches. Cody Vs Sammy would've got 6 minutes flat, the girls wouldn't have been on the show, I would've featured Jericho quite a bit even if they're smaller segments (He could be trying to figure out who the surprise is all night), I would've really made that initial 2 hour episode completely can't miss TV and AEW didn't. From what I recall it was a decent episode of Dynamite but it had to be awesome.

And that's where good writing comes in. A good writing staff could completely hook the majority of those 1.4 million people and keep them tuned into TNT throughout the night.


----------



## 3venflow

sim8 said:


> It's funny because when the pandemic first started, I genuinely thought there was a case to be made that corona could lead to a small boom for wrestling tv shows. I was wrong in that


Wrestling without crowds feels kind of empty. It's a genre that feeds on fan reactions... cheers for the good guys, boos for the bad guys. Emotional moments driven by crowd heat. Without them, it's harder for many to watch on TV so I always felt ratings would be affected.

AEW has done a pretty good job in terms of first having wrestlers making noise at ringside, then letting some fans back in.

But if you watch pre-pandemic Dynamite shows, you can see how much fans brought to AEW. Much like ECW, which was made special by the fans, who could make even crappy matches feel good.


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> So we can't compare AEW to sitcoms, we can't compare AEW to other wrestling shows so what are we meant to compare AEW to?
> 
> I think it's a cop out to be honest with you mate. *You refuse to accept that AEW tanked the ratings *somehow instead grasping at anything you can to excuse them.


I'm not denying them a 25% growth over a 4 months period that took them to a top 5 cable show. You are you troll.

For fair Comparisons, you should compare them to a new TV show that started in 2015-now.
And What's the other *best* comparable? NXT, which went from "1.2m to 600k."


----------



## Klitschko

Chip Chipperson said:


> So three months ago he would've been referencing the 15.07.2020 episode of Dynamite which did an overall rating of 788,000
> 
> This past weeks edition of AEW Dynamite? 753,000. Even if you want to argue about the presidential debate AEW has only managed an increase of less than 200,000 since then with the highest in the past month being 886,000 (Just 133,000 more in a 3 month period)
> 
> So yes, on a technicality you win but I'm sure Wood meant a significant ratings boost.
> 
> I think a more interesting discussion point is how AEW has gone from 1.4 million viewers this time last year to an average of about 800,000 now. That's a drop of over *SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND* people


Honestly. I can see why hundreds of thousands of people turned out after the first AEW episode. Hell, I like AEW but even I almost did. The first episode was horrible in my opinion. I had such high expectations and then it turned out to just be long match, long match, long match, and then a segment towards the end of the show. I actually hated the first few Dynamite's because there was practically no storylines at that time. And the ones that were there were completely bare bones. The Bucks/LAX for example and Moxley/Omega. I still have no idea why they hated each other so much. 

They won me over personally during the Full Gear-Revolution period. They were on fire during that time.


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> ECW, RAW and Nitro were at a time when there were less choices and less ways to watch. So as long as the shows were appealing, people would watch and prop that viewership up. People consume shows differently now. I genuinely don't watch traditional TV anymore except a local soap which I record and watch on my own time. That means even if the show is good and I enjoy it, Im probably not helping the viewership overnight figures. You can't compare Dynamite to shows from two decades ago without looking at variables and how technology and viewing habits have changed. It's not a like for like comparison so sending me numbers like that is misleading.
> 
> Regarding TNA, the same argument can be made about habits have changed over time but I'm interesting in TNA a bit more. Would you have a link to the viewership please. Just want to have a look myself at something


While the less choices thing is true, it was also more competitive as to what got greenlit. And I’ve never been particularly impressed by “people would rather watch something else” arguments.

Yes, people consume media differently. This is why living and dying by the ratings in 2020 is something largely archaic. No one else goes on their own show to talk about how they placed on a Showbuzz chart. But ratings themselves have also been calculated rather haphazardly. You wouldn’t be helping the viewership numbers even if you did watch on cable unless you had a Nielsen box.



Chip Chipperson said:


> Really, if we objectively look at what AEW served up on Episode 1 every match featured was over 10 minutes except for an MJF squash and the angles weren't particularly exciting. The longest match was between Nyla Rose and Riho and the ending was Jake Hager debuting.
> 
> That is what turned people off, it wasn't some mythical expectation of legends or anything like that. AEW had one chance to shine and they provided a show that caters to the hardcore wrestling fans instead of the casuals.


I’m glad someone calls a spade a spade around 



The Definition of Technician said:


> Hyperbole to make a point.
> You know TV isn't the same as it was literally 10 years ago (and if you don' gtfo out of the ratings thread or shut up and get educated). And you know WWE stank up wrestling over the past 10 years.
> 
> 
> 
> Well this might be stupidest shit i've ever seen posted here.
> A start-up on Wednesday night was supposed to beat the longest running weekly episodic show in the US.
> What a joke.
> 
> 
> 
> If increasing by 25% and going from a top 20 cable show to a top 5 cable show doesn't impress you, then i'll tell you what i told you before, they're not there to there to impress a bunch of trolls and haters who make shit up to shit on them.


Yay, another “wrestling is shit so you can’t expect good wrestling” argument. If you’re going to blame WWE for sucking, can you understand my angst at what AEW is doing to other wrestling’s chances?

Yes, eventually it should. One is supposed to be two quality hours and another is three hours of crap. It should have been relatively easy. But people would rather watch Raw. That’s how bad AEW is. Longevity does not confirm future success. The hottest shows on TV aren’t always around for 20 seasons. Stop spreading that lie.

You really won’t drop that arbitrary 25% thing, will you? I’m not going to lend credence to your own bias confirmation. And how does <800k this week affect that? More of the same fluctuating shit. You won’t bring up that a lot of these “spikes” (still in the same unimpressive range) have been unopposed. But yes, anyone who doesn’t spin it positively is trolling.

No one gives a fuck about Showbuzz charts, by the way. Being a “top five“ show in cable used to mean that everyone was watching you. Now it means batrly



3venflow said:


> Wrestling without crowds feels kind of empty. It's a genre that feeds on fan reactions... cheers for the good guys, boos for the bad guys. Emotional moments driven by crowd heat. Without them, it's harder for many to watch on TV so I always felt ratings would be affected.
> 
> AEW has done a pretty good job in terms of first having wrestlers making noise at ringside, then letting some fans back in.
> 
> But if you watch pre-pandemic Dynamite shows, you can see how much fans brought to AEW. Much like ECW, which was made special by the fans, who could make even crappy matches feel good.


Modern crowds are fake and want to be part of the show anyway. Since when do they cheer the faces and boo the heels? People who react genuinely to wrestling have been run off. Yes, it’s a problem, but missing the AEW crowd is missing the truth — people want to see themselves in a crowd, and no one wants to be in the AEW xrowd




The Definition of Technician said:


> I'm not denying them a 25% growth over a 4 months period that took them to a top 5 cable show. You are you troll.
> 
> For fair Comparisons, you should compare them to a new TV show that started in 2015-now.
> And What's the other *best* comparable? NXT, which went from "1.2m to 600k."


And that “growth” doesn’t hold up if you stretch the parameters. You are a troll.

No one lauds NXT’s ratings either. Both shows have failed to captivate an audience. And these comparisons aren’t so much “fair” as they are needlessly specific. You can compare AEW to other shows, it just doesn’t make them look as nice as you’d like.

Remember when wrestling used to be effective enough it’d influence viewing habits instead of being a slave to them?


----------



## rexmundi

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1316089312543338497


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> While the less choices thing is true, it was also more competitive as to what got greenlit. And I’ve never been particularly impressed by “people would rather watch something else” arguments.
> 
> Yes, people consume media differently. This is why living and dying by the ratings in 2020 is something largely archaic. No one else goes on their own show to talk about how they placed on a Showbuzz chart. But ratings themselves have also been calculated rather haphazardly. You wouldn’t be helping the viewership numbers even if you did watch on cable unless you had a Nielsen box.


You're right, ratings aren't the best measurement anymore due to how viewing habits have changed. But that means ratings alone can't be used to say AEW is stagnant or to say AEW is doing well. I personally avoid talking about the weekly ratings for that reason. I get why people do because it is one of the few measurements we have access to but if someone uses ratings alone to make a point then it usually doesn't help their argument, pro or con


----------



## The Wood

Hahaha. What, with like, 1.4 people per home? Good ol’ Dave. How do they even measure that? I can imagine a bunch of people saying “Turn it over to the fucking debate!”

Old Meltz has jumped the shark.

P.S. None of that means the number was high. ;-)


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> You're right, ratings aren't the best measurement anymore due to how viewing habits have changed. But that means ratings alone can't be used to say AEW is stagnant or to say AEW is doing well. I personally avoid talking about the weekly ratings for that reason. I get why people do because it is one of the few measurements we have access to but if someone uses ratings alone to make a point then it usually doesn't help their argument, pro or con


Then the onus is on the people making the assertion. It doesn’t put everyone back at square one.

Wrestling fans are weird about ratings because Meltzer takes them literally. It’s not to say they aren’t useful. For example, we can look at how Raw and SmackDown do and recognise that they are each several times more popular than AEW. We can estimate that the viewership is quite low, all things considered, and that it’s probably not the sexiest property to advertisers.

Now, AEW’s viewership on basic cable might be part of the iceberg (not the tip — it’s way more than that), but that is what is going to be counted when it comes to measuring their success on that platform. I’m not contradicting myself here: ratings matter insofar as networks want them to matter.

TNT can only charge ad rates based on what is there. If there are 1 million people watching on streaming sites, that does nothing for their cause. The actual number of people watching is trivial. There’s the number that counts and the number that is.

We can talk about the number that counts. It’s there. But the number that is — illegal streamers, DVR, etc. That is the one the “pro” crowd lean on, but there’s no way to monetise them the same way. So the “con” crowd can have the TV rating, whereas the “pro” crowd have their conjecture and hypotheticals.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> While the less choices thing is true, it was also more competitive as to what got greenlit. And I’ve never been particularly impressed by “people would rather watch something else” arguments.
> 
> Yes, people consume media differently. This is why living and dying by the ratings in 2020 is something largely archaic. No one else goes on their own show to talk about how they placed on a Showbuzz chart. But ratings themselves have also been calculated rather haphazardly. You wouldn’t be helping the viewership numbers even if you did watch on cable unless you had a Nielsen box.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m glad someone calls a spade a spade around
> 
> 
> 
> Yay, another “wrestling is shit so you can’t expect good wrestling” argument. If you’re going to blame WWE for sucking, can you understand my angst at what AEW is doing to other wrestling’s chances?
> 
> Yes, eventually it should. One is supposed to be two quality hours and another is three hours of crap. It should have been relatively easy. But people would rather watch Raw. That’s how bad AEW is. Longevity does not confirm future success. The hottest shows on TV aren’t always around for 20 seasons. Stop spreading that lie.
> 
> You really won’t drop that arbitrary 25% thing, will you? I’m not going to lend credence to your own bias confirmation. And how does <800k this week affect that? More of the same fluctuating shit. You won’t bring up that a lot of these “spikes” (still in the same unimpressive range) have been unopposed. But yes, anyone who doesn’t spin it positively is trolling.
> 
> No one gives a fuck about Showbuzz charts, by the way. Being a “top five“ show in cable used to mean that everyone was watching you. Now it means batrly
> 
> 
> 
> Modern crowds are fake and want to be part of the show anyway. Since when do they cheer the faces and boo the heels? People who react genuinely to wrestling have been run off. Yes, it’s a problem, but missing the AEW crowd is missing the truth — people want to see themselves in a crowd, and no one wants to be in the AEW xrowd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that “growth” doesn’t hold up if you stretch the parameters. You are a troll.
> 
> No one lauds NXT’s ratings either. Both shows have failed to captivate an audience. And these comparisons aren’t so much “fair” as they are needlessly specific. You can compare AEW to other shows, it just doesn’t make them look as nice as you’d like.
> 
> Remember when wrestling used to be effective enough it’d influence viewing habits instead of being a slave to them?


Nah, you're miserable troll and you don't know how to make apples to apples comparisons, so u make apples to oranges. Not only that, you don't understand trends.
You're too one dimensional and such a geek, you don't know how to think right because you're a miserable troll who wants others to fail because they don't do things 100% your way.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> Nah, you're miserable troll and you don't know how to make apples to apples comparisons, so u make apples to oranges. Not only that, you don't understand trends.
> You're too one dimensional and such a geek, you don't know how to think right because you're a miserable troll who wants others to fail because they don't do things 100% your way.


Lol, righto. And the trend into full Garty continues.

I don’t think you understand trends and how easily numbers can be manipulated. You’ve taken a limited range of data to reach the conclusion you want to reach. Should AEW go back down to the 800k range now they have competition from NXT, I somehow doubt you are going to factor those numbers into your “analysis.” How many “outliers” can a range have?


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> Lol, righto. And the trend into full Garty continues.
> 
> I don’t think you understand trends and how easily numbers can be manipulated. You’ve taken a limited range of data to reach the conclusion you want to reach. Should AEW go back down to the 800k range now they have competition from NXT, I somehow doubt you are going to factor those numbers into your “analysis.” How many “outliers” can a range have?


Nah. 
I factored it. 
August > July > June. With competition.
September also had the 550K episode which brought the average down by 50K but were still higher than August. 

You're the one taking outlier data (the debut show) to prove a ridiculous point which I've already debunked.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

1996 to 1997 raw drop off 🤔


----------



## DammitChrist

I see that AEW continues to (yet again) hold up really well with the wrestling audience :bjpenn

Thank you for the valuable information, Dave Meltzer and fellow poster, :cudi


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> Then the onus is on the people making the assertion. It doesn’t put everyone back at square one.
> 
> Wrestling fans are weird about ratings because Meltzer takes them literally. It’s not to say they aren’t useful. For example, we can look at how Raw and SmackDown do and recognise that they are each several times more popular than AEW. We can estimate that the viewership is quite low, all things considered, and that it’s probably not the sexiest property to advertisers.
> 
> Now, AEW’s viewership on basic cable might be part of the iceberg (not the tip — it’s way more than that), but that is what is going to be counted when it comes to measuring their success on that platform. I’m not contradicting myself here: ratings matter insofar as networks want them to matter.
> 
> TNT can only charge ad rates based on what is there. If there are 1 million people watching on streaming sites, that does nothing for their cause. The actual number of people watching is trivial. There’s the number that counts and the number that is.
> 
> We can talk about the number that counts. It’s there. But the number that is — illegal streamers, DVR, etc. That is the one the “pro” crowd lean on, but there’s no way to monetise them the same way. So the “con” crowd can have the TV rating, whereas the “pro” crowd have their conjecture and hypotheticals.


You're too black and white. There isn't TV watchers and illegal streamers and that's it. There are those that record it on their boxes. There are those that may watch the repeat. Problem is we usually only get the overnight ratings and yes, that is most important but there are other legal ways to watch the show that can help AEW and TNTs bottom line.


----------



## Klitschko

So is there any predictions on what you guys think their anniversary show will pull? I'm guessing it will be just over a million like after ALL OUT.


----------



## zaz102

I think it's too difficult to analyze the business with AEW without having inside information. For example, it would look like WWE has declining/stagnant ratings, but their profits are through the roof.

Obviously, ratings don't mean everything, but as fans we don't have much indicators. A negative indicator to me is that Dynamite's ratings have leveled out. Then again, positive indicators are that TNT extended and, according to Tony Khan, gave them a better deal and all signs pointing to creating a second show. These tell me the network has faith in the product with these leveled put ratings. Another positive is they have been increasing the roster, not reducing it.

I think the pandemic has been pretty signicant issue for growing the brand, but I haven't read anything that they are in financial trouble (other than outsiders personal opinions). Time will tell, but to me I see more positive indicators than negative.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

Klitschko said:


> So is there any predictions on what you guys think their anniversary show will pull? I'm guessing it will be just over a million like after ALL OUT.


It’s looking pretty obvious that Dynamite tomorrow night is going to have 169 Billion viewers for this week :trips8

Edit:

I think they’ll really get around 1 million viewers though.


----------



## Erik.

Anything less than 900k would be disappointing I think. 

All the titles on the line and it's an anniversary show.


----------



## Klitschko

I really hope there is some big surprises and some storylines advancing forward instead of just match match match. I'm hoping that Cody turns heel on OC and that MJF and the Inner Circle turn on Jericho. Probably won't happen, but a man can dream.


----------



## Not Lying

Klitschko said:


> So is there any predictions on what you guys think their anniversary show will pull? I'm guessing it will be just over a million like after ALL OUT.


Are they running unopposed? 
I can see them doing 900K-1M if competing with NXT.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> Nah.
> I factored it.
> August > July > June. With competition.
> September also had the 550K episode which brought the average down by 50K but were still higher than August.
> 
> You're the one taking outlier data (the debut show) to prove a ridiculous point which I've already debunked.


You haven’t debunked anything. You call the information you don’t like “oranges” and refuse to compare AEW to anything else on television other than NXT. Not other television shows, not other wrestling shows. You’re an apologist looking for the data to confirm your narrative.

And I don’t consider pilots outliers. Who the fuck would throw out a show’s ability to retain viewers



optikk sucks said:


> 1996 to 1997 raw drop off 🤔


Yep, AEW is definitely going to spike to new heights. 



sim8 said:


> You're too black and white. There isn't TV watchers and illegal streamers and that's it. There are those that record it on their boxes. There are those that may watch the repeat. Problem is we usually only get the overnight ratings and yes, that is most important but there are other legal ways to watch the show that can help AEW and TNTs bottom line.


I didn’t say that was it. You’re too nebulous with your openness to what they’re doing. DVR means shit, really.

As for what they do this week? I predict it will be between 600k and 1.1 million. Like _every other show they’ve ever done_.

After last week’s show being unimportant and not getting much coverage, I can actually see this show being quite underwhelming. Somewhere in the 800k range seems sensible. Mox will probably do well and a lot of other things will probably do pretty poor.


----------



## Klitschko

I think they will reach 1 million, but I would not be surprised at all to see 850-900, just because there is Moxley/Archer and the MJF/Jericho storyline, and everything else is just a random title match thrown together. Sure its a title match, but we see title matches every single week on Dynamite so it really looses its appeal a little.


----------



## NathanMayberry

rexmundi said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1316089312543338497


Thanks Dave "I'm totally not on AEW's payroll but I regularly bring up 'statistics' that I've never used in decades of covering ratings before now" Meltzer


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> I didn’t say that was it. You’re too nebulous with your openness to what they’re doing. DVR means shit, really.


What is so nebulous about what I said. It's pretty clear. If you are watching in a legal manner, whether that be the TNT app or a repeat or recorded or whatever, it helps AEWs bottom line. Watching live is the most important but is not the only thing that matters. So for people to say oh the overnight rating is bad or good without really being privy to other stats is limited in their opinion.

What we do know is TNT is more than happy with AEW right now. AEW came close to having their first profitable month before the pandemic and their PPV buyrates are consistently doing well. There are plenty of factors that actually show AEW is doing well.

What we as fans really need to be concerned about is the quality of creative as that will help AEW either grow or falter in the next few years. They have been hit and miss so there is plenty there that needs fixing.


----------



## The Wood

NathanMayberry said:


> Thanks Dave "I'm totally not on AEW's payroll but I regularly bring up 'statistics' that I've never used in decades of covering ratings before now" Meltzer


What is he even trying to say? With viewership being what it is, is he trying to say that it was in less homes than usual? 



sim8 said:


> What is so nebulous about what I said. It's pretty clear. If you are watching in a legal manner, whether that be the TNT app or a repeat or recorded or whatever, it helps AEWs bottom line. Watching live is the most important but is not the only thing that matters. So for people to say oh the overnight rating is bad or good without really being privy to other stats is limited in their opinion.
> 
> What we do know is TNT is more than happy with AEW right now. AEW came close to having their first profitable month before the pandemic and their PPV buyrates are consistently doing well. There are plenty of factors that actually show AEW is doing well.
> 
> What we as fans really need to be concerned about is the quality of creative as that will help AEW either grow or falter in the next few years. They have been hit and miss so there is plenty there that needs fixing.


Okay, you’re pretty new around here, so I’ll try not to get stroppy: We _don’t_ know TNT is happy with AEW. They have a business deal. That doesn’t mean they are “happy.” It’s such a loaded word to throw at the relationship.

What helps AEW’s bottom line are live viewers. People can skip ads on DVR. Some people say the app is factored into the ratings. I don’t think that’s the case, but whatever. They don’t release the numbers, and I’m sure they’re proportionate to everyone else, so who cares?


----------



## Aedubya

Ogogo joining MJF?


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> You haven’t debunked anything. You call the information you don’t like “oranges” and refuse to compare AEW to anything else on television other than NXT. Not other television shows, not other wrestling shows. You’re an apologist looking for the data to confirm your narrative.
> 
> And I don’t consider pilots outliers. Who the fuck would throw out a show’s ability to retain viewers
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, AEW is definitely going to spike to new heights.


You little lying troll.
I told Chip the miserable nitpicker he can compare it to other TV shows that debuted in 2015-2020 period, *none* will be as good as of comparable as NXT, but I'll take them. You will see a similar trend for 90% of the shows.
Better Call Saul
Fear of the Walking Dead
Mr Robot
Jane The Virgin
Lucifer

these are all on top of my head nd not only you will see drop after premier episode but drops season after season. It's what happens around TV.

Any season premiere for shows like AI/TV/AGT always get the high views then drop a little, and then after "audition" shows are over they lose more viewers. + You can see them losing viewers year on year

I'm no longer wasting my time with someone that is so *---* that they pretend to know what they're talking about but in fact have no idea how TV works in 2020, how to analyze trends, and how to find comparables.


----------



## Peerless

I'm expecting mid to high 800k. Moxley title matches almost always do well when it comes to ratings, but there hasn't really been a build for the title match because of Archer testing positive. I can't believe we still didn't get a Moxley-Jake Roberts promo though.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> You little lying troll.
> I told Chip the miserable nitpicker he can compare it to other TV shows that debuted in 2015-2020 period, *none* will be as good as of comparable as NXT, but I'll take them. You will see a similar trend for 90% of the shows.
> Better Call Saul
> Fear of the Walking Dead
> Mr Robot
> Jane The Virgin
> Lucifer
> 
> these are all on top of my head nd not only you will see drop after premier episode but drops season after season. It's what happens around TV.
> 
> Any season premiere for shows like AI/TV/AGT always get the high views then drop a little, and then after "audition" shows are over they lose more viewers. + You can see them losing viewers year on year
> 
> I'm no longer wasting my time with someone that is so *---* that they pretend to know what they're talking about but in fact have no idea how TV works in 2020, how to analyze trends, and how to find comparables.


Nah, you’re the liar. I’ve caught you in a few so far. Okay, let’s compare it to other shows. I took Better Call Saul, because it’s my favourite on the list. Holy shit, does it smoke AEW in the ratings.

I just checked out Jane the Virgin. Almost all of its episodes did over 1 million viewers. And it wasn’t a downward trend across the whole season. An episode mid-season of season 2 did better than the premier.

And remember when wrestling used to dictate different habits? Why are we using the examples _you_ want to use, anyway? How about you use appropriate samples? Like wrestling-to-wrestling.

I’ve been quite busy today, so I’ve humoured you on your bullshit way more than you deserve to be, without properly engaging you. You don’t get to choose where to start trends from. Why is it that you start in March? Because it’s a convenient low point. I don’t give a shit if August was better than July and July was better than June. How do they compare to November last year? I haven’t looked, because it’s honestly not worth the time, and I can deduce from your dishonest arguments that it wouldn’t look very good.

Man, if only I could count my improvement from my worst day. Any day I was average I would look amazing in comparison.


----------



## Peerless

I showed some of Orange Cassidy's clips to my younger brother's friends. One of his friends who's more into anime and nerd culture, loved him. He found his shtick funny.

His other friend who's more of a douchebag and is into the partying scene hated him. He legit said word for word "I grew up watching studs like Batista and Orton and this is what wrestling's become? WTF?"

He was even more surprised when I told him AEW got a million viewers that week. He couldn't believe a million people watch stuff like that. I won't get into his reaction when I showed him Sunny Kiss vs Cody though....LMFAO.

It does bring me to an interesting point though. Orange Cassidy is AEW's top merch mover or at least the top 3. He's their second-biggest youtube draw after Mox, and he's might be AEW's biggest ratings mover after Moxley, Jericho, and Cody. If anyone else was in his position we would be singing their praises. The question is why is it when it comes to Cassidy we should ignore that?

Well, there's the argument that he might be doing numbers now, but in the long run, he'll lead to driving fans away as it'll be impossible to take the product somewhat seriously ever again, and in time his shtick will get old.

At the same time, you can make the argument that the wrestling fanbase is similar to the anime fanbase who find that kind of humour funny. The quirky BTE humour and what not. If that's AEW's audience shouldn't they be building toward them instead of people who don't plan on ever giving wrestling a chance again?

TBH, I understand both sides of the argument. I'm OK with Cassidy. I don't think he should be winning against top stars, but as an undercard performer for live crowds, I think he's fine. Putting him in top positions though, I'm not too sure about that one.


----------



## The Wood

Peerless said:


> I showed some of Orange Cassidy's clips to my younger brother's friends. One of his friends who's more into anime and nerd culture, loved him. He found his shtick funny.
> 
> His other friend who's more of a douchebag and is into the partying scene hated him. He legit said word for word "I grew up watching studs like Batista and Orton and this is what wrestling's become? WTF?"
> 
> He was even more surprised when I told him AEW got a million viewers that week. He couldn't believe a million people watch stuff like that. I won't get into his reaction when I showed him Sunny Kiss vs Cody though....LMFAO.
> 
> It does bring me to an interesting point though. Orange Cassidy is AEW's top merch mover or at least the top 3. He's their second-biggest youtube draw after Mox, and he's might be AEW's biggest ratings mover after Moxley, Jericho, and Cody. If anyone else was in his position we would be singing their praises. The question is why is it when it comes to Cassidy we should ignore that?
> 
> Well, there's the argument that he might be doing numbers now, but in the long run, he'll lead to driving fans away as it'll be impossible to take the product somewhat seriously ever again, and in time his shtick will get old.
> 
> At the same time, you can make the argument that the wrestling fanbase is similar to the anime fanbase who find that kind of humour funny. The quirky BTE humour and what not. If that's AEW's audience shouldn't they be building toward them instead of people who don't plan on ever giving wrestling a chance again?
> 
> TBH, I understand both sides of the argument. I'm OK with Cassidy. I don't think he should be winning against top stars, but as an undercard performer for live crowds, I think he's fine. Putting him in top positions though, I'm not too sure about that one.


It’s because that placement hasn’t been contextualised. What does being a merch mover actually mean in the AEW context? Is he moving 100k shirts or 1k?

And the people who know he is bad for business can see past it all. They know the type of audience this attracts are not sincere nor in it for the long haul. He caps you, and the more exposed he is the smaller the potential pool for future fans becomes.


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> Okay, you’re pretty new around here, so I’ll try not to get stroppy: We _don’t_ know TNT is happy with AEW. They have a business deal. That doesn’t mean they are “happy.” It’s such a loaded word to throw at the relationship.
> 
> What helps AEW’s bottom line are live viewers. People can skip ads on DVR. Some people say the app is factored into the ratings. I don’t think that’s the case, but whatever. They don’t release the numbers, and I’m sure they’re proportionate to everyone else, so who cares?


Why on earth would you get stroppy with anyone who is having a reasonable discussion with you on a topic they have a difference of opinion in? It's not like I've attacked you personally or anything.

TNT renewed Dynamite 3 months into the deal. That's a lot quicker than expected. I recall TNT saying they wanted to give AEW the incentive to actually plan for the long term with some security. They also announced a second show which is big news for AEW. You don't do that for a show you're not happy with or believe in. 

Yeah I agree overnight live viewership is the most important but to write off other legal ways of watching as not consequential is not correct.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Peerless said:


> I showed some of Orange Cassidy's clips to my younger brother's friends. One of his friends who's more into anime and nerd culture, loved him. He found his shtick funny.
> 
> His other friend who's more of a douchebag and is into the partying scene hated him. He legit said word for word "I grew up watching studs like Batista and Orton and this is what wrestling's become? WTF?"
> 
> He was even more surprised when I told him AEW got a million viewers that week. He couldn't believe a million people watch stuff like that. I won't get into his reaction when I showed him Sunny Kiss vs Cody though....LMFAO.
> 
> It does bring me to an interesting point though. Orange Cassidy is AEW's top merch mover or at least the top 3. He's their second-biggest youtube draw after Mox, and he's might be AEW's biggest ratings mover after Moxley, Jericho, and Cody. If anyone else was in his position we would be singing their praises. The question is why is it when it comes to Cassidy we should ignore that?
> 
> Well, there's the argument that he might be doing numbers now, but in the long run, he'll lead to driving fans away as it'll be impossible to take the product somewhat seriously ever again, and in time his shtick will get old.
> 
> At the same time, you can make the argument that the wrestling fanbase is similar to the anime fanbase who find that kind of humour funny. The quirky BTE humour and what not. If that's AEW's audience shouldn't they be building toward them instead of people who don't plan on ever giving wrestling a chance again?
> 
> TBH, I understand both sides of the argument. I'm OK with Cassidy. I don't think he should be winning against top stars, but as an undercard performer for live crowds, I think he's fine. Putting him in top positions though, I'm not too sure about that one.


So in my opinion and what was proved in either the Dynamite thread or this thread is that Orange Cassidy brings the wrong type of people in. Maybe @Two Sheds will grace us with the .gif of the OC fan doing the most awkward dance of all time whilst his significant other/carer shakes her head. Apart from that the fans applauding OC on his way to the ring were obese balding men mostly in their thirties or forties who look like they'd struggle to get laid with 10 hundred dollar notes sticking out of their pants pocket.

Those guys are going to tune into wrestling no matter what it is you don't cater to them. AEW should cater to the casual wrestling fan whilst keeping guys like OC in the background and featuring men who look like men fighting over manly shit that people can relate to.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> Nah, you’re the liar. I’ve caught you in a few so far. Okay, let’s compare it to other shows. I took Better Call Saul, because it’s my favourite on the list. Holy shit, does it smoke AEW in the ratings.
> 
> I just checked out Jane the Virgin. Almost all of its episodes did over 1 million viewers. And it wasn’t a downward trend across the whole season. An episode mid-season of season 2 did better than the premier.
> 
> And remember when wrestling used to dictate different habits? Why are we using the examples _you_ want to use, anyway? How about you use appropriate samples? Like wrestling-to-wrestling.
> 
> I’ve been quite busy today, so I’ve humoured you on your bullshit way more than you deserve to be, without properly engaging you. You don’t get to choose where to start trends from. Why is it that you start in March? Because it’s a convenient low point. I don’t give a shit if August was better than July and July was better than June. How do they compare to November last year? I haven’t looked, because it’s honestly not worth the time, and I can deduce from your dishonest arguments that it wouldn’t look very good.
> 
> Man, if only I could count my improvement from my worst day. Any day I was average I would look amazing in comparison.


xD see how you're shifting the argument? Better Call Saul lost like 35-40% immediately after the premier. I'm proving to you the stupid fact that you don't seem to understand and is now doing mental gymnastics to avoid talking about that ALMOST ALL SHOWS LOSE VIEWERSHIP AFTER THE PREMIER.

Why I'm doing it like this?
*Because the appropriate perfect sample is Wrestling to Wrestling in most recent years (2015-2020).*
Surely you can understand how this is a fair comparison? If you can't understand this then you are beneath me to debate with you. At least start by admitting that these would be the perfect comparables to chose from.


And for my point, you have SD on Fox losing more 50% since their debut show, but I'm not stupid enough think like this. SD was doing like 2.6-2.9m and now they're down to 2m.
NXT started with 1.2m, stood around 750-800 before now being 650-750K.

AEW started with 1.4m.
Do you wanna know what November average was?
*833K. Similar to September. (AND THIS IS WITH NO CROWDS)*

You just forced me to research it to prove you wrong again because you're fucking lazy and can't admit the simple fact that almost TV shows drop in viewership after premier.
I gave you perfect comparables (SD on Fox, NXT) and time-line accurate TV Shows. And you're still not willing to admit it.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> xD see how you're shifting the argument? Better Call Saul lost like 35-40% immediately after the premier. I'm proving to you the stupid fact that you don't seem to understand and is now doing mental gymnastics to avoid talking about that ALMOST ALL SHOWS LOSE VIEWERSHIP AFTER THE PREMIER.
> 
> Why I'm doing it like this?
> *Because the appropriate perfect sample is Wrestling to Wrestling in most recent years (2015-2020).*
> Surely you can understand how this is a fair comparison? If you can't understand this then you are beneath me to debate with you. At least start by admitting that these would be the perfect comparables to chose from.
> 
> 
> And for my point, you have SD on Fox losing more 50% since their debut show, but I'm not stupid enough think like this. SD was doing like 2.6-2.9m and now they're down to 2m.
> NXT started with 1.2m, stood around 750-800 before now being 650-750K.
> 
> AEW started with 1.4m.
> Do you wanna know what November average was?
> *833K. Similar to September. (AND THIS IS WITH NO CROWDS)*
> 
> You just forced me to research it to prove you wrong again because you're fucking lazy and can't admit the simple fact that almost TV shows drop in viewership after premier.
> I gave you perfect comparables (SD on Fox, NXT) and time-line accurate TV Shows. And you're still not willing to admit it.


So if the average for November was 833,000 which is similar to September this year wouldn't that mean the ratings have remained stagnant therefore proving Wood correct (Or at least giving his argument a heap more credibility) when he stated that AEW is unlikely to see any real upwards ratings movements?


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> So if the average for November was 833,000 which is similar to September this year wouldn't that mean the ratings have remained stagnant therefore proving Wood correct (Or at least giving his argument a heap more credibility) when he stated that AEW is unlikely to see any real upwards ratings movements?


He was talking when they were averaging high 600K and low 700k. They've had a much bigger growth since then. Seriously, get your head out of his ass.
If he wants to come now and claim that when he was talking in June and mocking AEW for losing to NXT that he was talking about "long term" then he also loses points because then they didn't lose viewership.
CONTEXT IS KEY AND YOU LOSERS REMOVE IT. Define you context.

*AEW LOST VIEWERSHIPS during March-June, how could anybody not realize this?
They lost around 200k viewers from their average.*

They've since either gained them back or got new fans. And I am sure AEW will grow by 150k-200K viewerships within a few months of having live fans back. So call me optimistic you troll


----------



## zaz102

sim8 said:


> Why on earth would you get stroppy with anyone who is having a reasonable discussion with you on a topic they have a difference of opinion in? It's not like I've attacked you personally or anything.
> 
> TNT renewed Dynamite 3 months into the deal. That's a lot quicker than expected. I recall TNT saying they wanted to give AEW the incentive to actually plan for the long term with some security. They also announced a second show which is big news for AEW. You don't do that for a show you're not happy with or believe in.
> 
> Yeah I agree overnight live viewership is the most important but to write off other legal ways of watching as not consequential is not correct.


Yeah, I don't understand. I agree I don't know the situation, but was just pointing out that there seemed to be others indicating things are going well or poorly financially without having any information. Not sure what the issue is??

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> Why on earth would you get stroppy with anyone who is having a reasonable discussion with you on a topic they have a difference of opinion in? It's not like I've attacked you personally or anything.
> 
> TNT renewed Dynamite 3 months into the deal. That's a lot quicker than expected. I recall TNT saying they wanted to give AEW the incentive to actually plan for the long term with some security. They also announced a second show which is big news for AEW. You don't do that for a show you're not happy with or believe in.
> 
> Yeah I agree overnight live viewership is the most important but to write off other legal ways of watching as not consequential is not correct.


Because it’s been done to death and people rightly recognise it as a slippery trick. Renewing something doesn’t mean you are “happy” with it. That’s such a presumed relationship. And people use it to misrepresent AEW’s alleged success.



The Definition of Technician said:


> xD see how you're shifting the argument? Better Call Saul lost like 35-40% immediately after the premier. I'm proving to you the stupid fact that you don't seem to understand and is now doing mental gymnastics to avoid talking about that ALMOST ALL SHOWS LOSE VIEWERSHIP AFTER THE PREMIER.
> 
> Why I'm doing it like this?
> *Because the appropriate perfect sample is Wrestling to Wrestling in most recent years (2015-2020).*
> Surely you can understand how this is a fair comparison? If you can't understand this then you are beneath me to debate with you. At least start by admitting that these would be the perfect comparables to chose from.
> 
> 
> And for my point, you have SD on Fox losing more 50% since their debut show, but I'm not stupid enough think like this. SD was doing like 2.6-2.9m and now they're down to 2m.
> NXT started with 1.2m, stood around 750-800 before now being 650-750K.
> 
> AEW started with 1.4m.
> Do you wanna know what November average was?
> *833K. Similar to September. (AND THIS IS WITH NO CROWDS)*
> 
> You just forced me to research it to prove you wrong again because you're fucking lazy and can't admit the simple fact that almost TV shows drop in viewership after premier.
> I gave you perfect comparables (SD on Fox, NXT) and time-line accurate TV Shows. And you're still not willing to admit it.


SmackDown is up from 1.8 million to 2 million again. Growth!

Wait, did you just admit that AEW has seen no real growth over an extended period of time? Have you forgotten what you are actually discussing? You get trapped in your own boxed in way of thinking that you actually suit yourself in the foot.

People compare wrestling to wrestling all the time, and people shut it down. I’ve seen you use the “AEW is new” excuse, which flies in the face of your “shows start off strong” bullshit too. That’s one possibility. Another is that they actually build a significant audience. But you don’t like that data when it’s given to you.



The Definition of Technician said:


> He was talking when they were averaging high 600K and low 700k. They've had a much bigger growth since then. Seriously, get your head out of his ass.
> If he wants to come now and claim that when he was talking in June and mocking AEW for losing to NXT that he was talking about "long term" then he also loses points because then they didn't lose viewership.
> CONTEXT IS KEY AND YOU LOSERS REMOVE IT. Define you context.
> 
> *AEW LOST VIEWERSHIPS during March-June, how could anybody not realize this?
> They lost around 200k viewers from their average.*
> 
> They've since either gained them back or got new fans. And I am sure AEW will grow by 150k-200K viewerships within a few months of having live fans back. So call me optimistic you troll


Hang on — you’re the one stalking my old posts and taking them _out of context_ and then you have a whinge about context? Anyone can go back and see: I was responding to people claiming that AEW was going to build a significant audience when the crowds came back, with people talking about them getting over 1 million as something more than an anomaly. It’s a good thing I’ve got a good memory and can remember the context of these things people misrepresent.

I’ve warned you not to go full Garty. DO NOT make up my intentions for me. I was talking about what any reasonable person here can deduce: AEW building up a larger significant audience than the one they had. Your frivolous March-August bullshit has never been on my plate, so don’t pretend like I was talking about it. That’s your spin. I don’t want any of it.

By the way, the difference between 650k and 850k is trivial to me, and anyone here knows that has always been my standpoint.


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> Because it’s been done to death and people rightly recognise it as a slippery trick. Renewing something doesn’t mean you are “happy” with it. That’s such a presumed relationship. And people use it to misrepresent AEW’s alleged success.


So they renewed a show they may not be happy with it? Not only that, they greenlit a second show? Why would they do that? That makes zero sense.

There are levels of success. When people use the word success, nobody is saying AEW is super amazing and get everything right and it's all sunshine and roses. Not at all. AEW has a long way to go to become truly established and secure as a business. But they do seem to have a loyal fan base of about 1m people in America, they are available widely around the world, they do consistently well on PPV. They have a strong roster for the most part, with a lot of potential young talent. There are indications TNT is happy - yes, happy! - with them.

Now is that enough for long term success 5 years down the line. Absolutely not but right now there is quite a bit to be optimistic about.


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> So they renewed a show they may not be happy with it? Not only that, they greenlit a second show? Why would they do that? That makes zero sense.
> 
> There are levels of success. When people use the word success, nobody is saying AEW is super amazing and get everything right and it's all sunshine and roses. Not at all. AEW has a long way to go to become truly established and secure as a business. But they do seem to have a loyal fan base of about 1m people in America, they are available widely around the world, they do consistently well on PPV. They have a strong roster for the most part, with a lot of potential young talent. There are indications TNT is happy - yes, happy! - with them.
> 
> Now is that enough for long term success 5 years down the line. Absolutely not but right now there is quite a bit to be optimistic about.


Yes, it’s very possible. People make business decisions against their personal tastes all the time. It’s not that shocking a proposition.

AEW could be seen as cheap trash to fill dead programming slots and exploit the dumb-ass wrestling fan for all we know. Wrestling fans don’t carry much respect in those circles. You get two hours for the mouth-breathers on Wednesday and another one on Friday at 11pm because they aren’t doing anything. You just don’t know how they “feel” about AEW.

We also don’t know how much or how little it pulls in ad revenue, and how TNT executives feel about that. Renewing them just means they locked them in for that cheap as chips price.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> Because it’s been done to death and people rightly recognise it as a slippery trick. Renewing something doesn’t mean you are “happy” with it. That’s such a presumed relationship. And people use it to misrepresent AEW’s alleged success.
> 
> 
> 
> SmackDown is up from 1.8 million to 2 million again. Growth!
> 
> Wait, did you just admit that AEW has seen no real growth over an extended period of time? Have you forgotten what you are actually discussing? You get trapped in your own boxed in way of thinking that you actually suit yourself in the foot.
> 
> People compare wrestling to wrestling all the time, and people shut it down. I’ve seen you use the “AEW is new” excuse, which flies in the face of your “shows start off strong” bullshit too. That’s one possibility. Another is that they actually build a significant audience. But you don’t like that data when it’s given to you.
> 
> 
> 
> Hang on — you’re the one stalking my old posts and taking them _out of context_ and then you have a whinge about context? Anyone can go back and see: I was responding to people claiming that AEW was going to build a significant audience when the crowds came back, with people talking about them getting over 1 million as something more than an anomaly. It’s a good thing I’ve got a good memory and can remember the context of these things people misrepresent.
> 
> I’ve warned you not to go full Garty. DO NOT make up my intentions for me. I was talking about what any reasonable person here can deduce: AEW building up a larger significant audience than the one they had. Your frivolous March-August bullshit has never been on my plate, so don’t pretend like I was talking about it. That’s your spin. I don’t want any of it.
> 
> By the way, the difference between 650k and 850k is trivial to me, and anyone here knows that has always been my standpoint.


You're just so pathetic and small.

You're using the 1.8m to 2m now, which is true, they had averaged less than 2m since the pandemic before the Dome, after the Dome were back to 2m. Small growth in the pandemic era, but long-term it is still a big decline.

AEW, they had a growth during the pandemic era, and with that growth they're back to where they were prior to pandemic levels.

Omfg. Do you I have to explain EVERYTHING to you? Do you act stupid or are you just trolling?

Shows start off strong, they drop, they build a base, and *because* wrestling isn't like most TV shows, they run 52 weeks a year, then after the initial drop from a "season premier/first show", they'll cultivate their base which will grow. I find it to be an incredible success they are still where they are 1 year ago *WITHOUT A CROWD*.

Notice how you just can't admit to how people should analyze comparables and trends 😂
Only a moron would compare ratings from 20-30 years ago to today's standards.
You compare today's time to current comparables, and if the best comparables are wrestling shows (NXT, SD Fox), they prove my point. 90% of shows and season premier of live shows and reality TVs (Austin's show for example on top of my head), also prove my point.

Shows can improve in the long run, but you are not patient, you are pathetic, and you spin arguments how u see fit. I'm gona keep calling you out on your bullshit narratives that only small minded people agree with.

So keep eating crow and challenging me on some bullshit "November numbers wouldn't look good would they". My ass. 

Edit: and lol so you still think them getting 1m views is an anomaly? 😂 😂
It happens with no competition, they have segments reaching 1.2m views, do you see how it's a bullshit narrative "THEY'LL NEVER GET BACK TO THAT CONSISTENTLY".


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> Yes, it’s very possible. People make business decisions against their personal tastes all the time. It’s not that shocking a proposition.
> 
> AEW could be seen as cheap trash to fill dead programming slots and exploit the dumb-ass wrestling fan for all we know. Wrestling fans don’t carry much respect in those circles. You get two hours for the mouth-breathers on Wednesday and another one on Friday at 11pm because they aren’t doing anything. You just don’t know how they “feel” about AEW.
> 
> We also don’t know how much or how little it pulls in ad revenue, and how TNT executives feel about that. Renewing them just means they locked them in for that cheap as chips price.


Okay yeah, the execs may not find AEW to their own personal taste but then that means they saw potential from a business point of view? That's even more impressive for AEW.

Wednesday 8pm is a dead slot now? 

TNT isn't some charity. They aren't gonna throw money at AEW unless they feel there is a return to be had. So yeah, we don't know the ad revenue etc but we do know AEW is doing well enough for TNT to invest in them for the next few years at the very least.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> You're just so pathetic and small.
> 
> You're using the 1.8m to 2m now, which is true, they had averaged less than 2m since the Dome, after the Dome were back to 2m. Small growth in the pandemic era, but long-term it is still a big decline.
> 
> AEW, they had a growth during the pandemic era, and with that growth they're back to where they were prior to pandemic levels.
> 
> Omfg. Do you I have to explain EVERYTHING to you? Do you act stupid or are you just trolling?
> 
> Shows start off strong, they drop, they build a base, and *because* wrestling isn't like most TV shows, they run 52 weeks a year, then after the initial drop from a "season premier/first show", they'll cultivate their base which will grow. I find it to be an incredible success they are still where they are 1 year ago *WITHOUT A CROWD*.
> 
> Notice how you just can't admit to how people should analyze comparables and trends 😂
> Only a moron would compare ratings from 20-30 years ago to today's standards.
> You compare today's time to current comparables, and if the best comparables are wrestling shows (NXT, SD Fox), they prove my point. 90% of shows and season premier of live shows and reality TVs (Austin's show for example on top of my head), also prove my point.
> 
> Shows can improve in the long run, but you are not patient, you are pathetic, and you spin arguments how u see fit. I'm gona keep calling you out on your bullshit narratives that only small minded people agree with.


You love insulting people when they unpick your arguments, don’t you? Says a lot about your character, honestly.

Yes, SmackDown is still down long-term. You are actually approaching a point there. ;-)

Why do you keep yelling about them not having a crowd? That’s not impressive.

And no, I don’t agree with you how trends should be analysed. Not at all. Why would I agree with what I think is a poor take?

You approach half-way decent points about wrestling not being like other TV shows, but then you want to compare it to other TV shows instead of wrestling. And when people do use wrestling examples, they are too old, too established or it’s otherwise “No, not that one.”

AEW is getting smoked by Raw. They’re getting smoked by SmackDown. They’re comparable with NXT. I am not impressed. Even *WITHOUT A CROWD!*

And yeah, shows can grow audiences. I don’t think AEW is going to do that to any significant margin. I think they’re going to be watched by roughly the same amount of people each week. Which so far, is true. But you have to talk about some arbitrary 25% growth from their darkest day. That doesn’t mean shit. Especially considering they have largely run unopposed the last couple of weeks where they have scored big, and the difference is between 650k and 850k or whatever. It’s dishwater.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I will say that I think TNT would like AEW from a business perspective but probably would look down on the audience as well. Wrestling is traditionally for the lower middle class/poor people and that is how non wrestling people still see it.

They'd be happy with the numbers I agree with Sim there but I don't think they'd be particularly loyal if that number dropped either...


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> Okay yeah, the execs may not find AEW to their own personal taste but then that means they saw potential from a business point of view? That's even more impressive for AEW.
> 
> Wednesday 8pm is a dead slot now?
> 
> TNT isn't some charity. They aren't gonna throw money at AEW unless they feel there is a return to be had. So yeah, we don't know the ad revenue etc but we do know AEW is doing well enough for TNT to invest in them for the next few years at the very least.


No, it could just mean they got live entertainment for way less than they’d paid for scripted content. It doesn’t necessarily have to be an achievement at all. If they scored a massive TV rights deal? Sure. But I don’t think people appreciate just how much of a steal TNT got AEW for. Tony Khan basically gave it away.

We don’t know TNT won’t pull the plug tomorrow. They hold all the cards there.


----------



## The Wood

I’m not even sure they are “happy” with the number. It all depends on how much ad revenue they get. And they are splitting that 50/50 too, which I’m sure some execs would HATE.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> You love insulting people when they unpick your arguments, don’t you? Says a lot about your character, honestly.
> 
> Yes, SmackDown is still down long-term. You are actually approaching a point there. ;-)
> 
> Why do you keep yelling about them not having a crowd? That’s not impressive.
> 
> And no, I don’t agree with you how trends should be analysed. Not at all. Why would I agree with what I think is a poor take?
> 
> You approach half-way decent points about wrestling not being like other TV shows, but then you want to compare it to other TV shows instead of wrestling. And when people do use wrestling examples, they are too old, too established or it’s otherwise “No, not that one.”
> 
> AEW is getting smoked by Raw. They’re getting smoked by SmackDown. They’re comparable with NXT. I am not impressed. Even *WITHOUT A CROWD!*
> 
> And yeah, shows can grow audiences. I don’t think AEW is going to do that to any significant margin. I think they’re going to be watched by roughly the same amount of people each week. Which so far, is true. But you have to talk about some arbitrary 25% growth from their darkest day. That doesn’t mean shit. Especially considering they have largely run unopposed the last couple of weeks where they have scored big, and the difference is between 650k and 850k or whatever. It’s dishwater.


So let me get this straight you dork


You don't understand that there are long-term and short-term trends for growth
You don't understand how to pick comparables
You think TV shows from 20-30 years ago, even if wrestling, can be compared to now
You shifted your argument to overall numbers and not trends now
I am not the one who started comparing it to TV Shows, you're friend Chip did by picking shows from 90's
Picking TV shows from the current-times proves my point further
We're back "What if" "I don't think", so basically delusions in your head.
I'll be happy to gloat about how ratings are going to improve within a couple of months of crowds being back and how terribly wrong you've been (at every turn).


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> No, it could just mean they got live entertainment for way less than they’d paid for scripted content. It doesn’t necessarily have to be an achievement at all. If they scored a massive TV rights deal? Sure. But I don’t think people appreciate just how much of a steal TNT got AEW for. Tony Khan basically gave it away.
> 
> We don’t know TNT won’t pull the plug tomorrow. They hold all the cards there.





The Wood said:


> I’m not even sure they are “happy” with the number. It all depends on how much ad revenue they get. And they are splitting that 50/50 too, which I’m sure some execs would HATE.


Honest question, why are you so incapable of giving AEW any credit here? You're downplaying legit achievements with hypothetical what ifs which by definition cannot be proven right or wrong. 

You say AEW is a steal for TNT but at the same time this deal has given AEW a level of security they did not have before. The deal also played a big part in helping AEW come close to making a profit before the pandemic ruined that. In a few years time, I fully expect the next deal to be bigger for AEW if things continue the way they are.

You also say TNT hold all the cards but then say you're sure some execs must hate the deal regarding the 50-50 ad revenue. Yet they hold all the cards but hate elements of the deal? Slight contradiction there.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> So let me get this straight you dork
> 
> 
> You don't understand that there are long-term and short-term trends for growth
> You don't understand how to pick comparables
> You think TV shows from 20-30 years ago, even if wrestling, can be compared to now
> You shifted your argument to overall numbers and not trends now
> I am not the one who started comparing it to TV Shows, you're friend Chip did by picking shows from 90's
> Picking TV shows from the current-times proves my point further
> We're back "What if" "I don't think", so basically delusions in your head.
> I'll be happy to gloat about how ratings are going to improve within a couple of months of crowds being back and how terribly wrong you've been (at every turn).


Sigh, here we go:

* Of course there are long-term and short-term trends for growth. No one was talking short-term except you, and it helps when there is actual growth and you don’t just end up a bit behind where you started.

* I fucking hate the word “comparables”. It’s such a stooge word. But everyone knows how to compare two separate things. What even is this point?

* In some ways they are. No one is saying that viewing habits and the numbers are going to be exactly the same, but they are fine for providing evidence that wrestling shows can grow an audience very quickly. Nothing has changed that would impede that now.

* I was never discussing trends in the first place. If you can’t tell, I genuinely find the subject tedious. I’ve always talked overall numbers.

* So? You’re the one who sooks when they aren’t the ones you want.

* No it doesn’t. What even is your point? That AEW is growing? Shouldn’t it actually grow before you claim that?

* I don’t understand this brain fart of yours.

* Okay, and I’ll be happy to gloat them staying in the same unimpressive range, as they have for AEW’s entire existence.


----------



## zaz102

sim8 said:


> Okay yeah, the execs may not find AEW to their own personal taste but then that means they saw potential from a business point of view? That's even more impressive for AEW.
> 
> Wednesday 8pm is a dead slot now?
> 
> TNT isn't some charity. They aren't gonna throw money at AEW unless they feel there is a return to be had. So yeah, we don't know the ad revenue etc but we do know AEW is doing well enough for TNT to invest in them for the next few years at the very least.


Yeah, not quite sure I follow the logic.

TNT either like it enough that they renewed it (cheap or not) or they wouldn't renew it. If they have a bias against wrestling and its fans, then that shows even more faith in the product.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> Honest question, why are you so incapable of giving AEW any credit here? You're downplaying legit achievements with hypothetical what ifs which by definition cannot be proven right or wrong.
> 
> You say AEW is a steal for TNT but at the same time this deal has given AEW a level of security they did not have before. The deal also played a big part in helping AEW come close to making a profit before the pandemic ruined that. In a few years time, I fully expect the next deal to be bigger for AEW if things continue the way they are.
> 
> You also say TNT hold all the cards but then say you're sure some execs must hate the deal regarding the 50-50 ad revenue. Yet they hold all the cards but hate elements of the deal? Slight contradiction there.


Because people overreach with it being an achievement, and I think it is dishonest, lazy and counterproductive to think in those terms.

You forget where the onus lies in these sorts of things. I don’t have to prove that TNT is unhappy. I’m not the one making the claim of anything. It’s the people claiming to know their mind that should back it up, and I just challenge them on that. Because they can’t. And that’s really all my point is on the subject.

TNT could pull the rug out tomorrow. I don’t know where this idea of security comes from.

Yeah, because Tony Khan’s bud made the deal and is now out of his position. Someone new in the slot might hate it. That’s why the deal isn’t as secure as people might think. It isn’t a contradiction, haha. Stop trying to grab a “gotcha” moment.


----------



## The Wood

zaz102 said:


> Yeah, not quite sure I follow the logic.
> 
> TNT either like it enough that they renewed it (cheap or not) or they wouldn't renew it. If they have a bias against wrestling and its fans, then that shows even more faith in the product.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


It doesn’t necessarily show faith in the product at all. It could be a flavour they are running into the ground because they feel it is a cheap bet. They don’t _have_ to be happy with something to decide it’s worth keeping for $45 million per year at this stage.


----------



## zaz102

The Wood said:


> It doesn’t necessarily show faith in the product at all. It could be a flavour they are running into the ground because they feel it is a cheap bet. They don’t _have_ to be happy with something to decide it’s worth keeping for $45 million per year at this stage.


Yeah, still having trouble following the logic, but its not like I know anything either so ain't no thang.

Not sure if you are just more cynical, but I have to ask- are you an AEW fan? Not to offend, but just curious if you are or not. If not, what are you into? As a recently returned fan, definitely would be interested in hearing what else is out there.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> Because people overreach with it being an achievement, and I think it is dishonest, lazy and counterproductive to think in those terms.
> 
> You forget where the onus lies in these sorts of things. I don’t have to prove that TNT is unhappy. I’m not the one making the claim of anything. It’s the people claiming to know their mind that should back it up, and I just challenge them on that. Because they can’t. And that’s really all my point is on the subject.
> 
> TNT could pull the rug out tomorrow. I don’t know where this idea of security comes from.
> 
> Yeah, because Tony Khan’s bud made the deal and is now out of his position. Someone new in the slot might hate it. That’s why the deal isn’t as secure as people might think. It isn’t a contradiction, haha. Stop trying to grab a “gotcha” moment.


Well, nobody can speak for anybody else. All we can do is lay out facts and make logical assumptions from those. So here are the facts:

1) AEW got renewed 3 months in which is quicker than expected.

2) TNT said in the press release they want to give incentive to AEW to build something long-term, knowing they have some level of security. This also led to MJF getting signed for a long term contract, I believe.

3) TNT announced a second show is coming in 2020 (which has since been delayed due to the pandemic)

I'm sure I'm missing something but the combination of these 3 facts can lead to the logical conclusion TNT finds AEW to be a sound investment and that is why they have locked them up. You can say TNT got a really cheap deal but they still investing money into it which they must expect a return of sorts from.

TNT can cancel Dynamite, sure. But that's true about pretty much all shows but AEW is doing just as well as they have been so there aren't any indications of Dynamite being cancelled just yet. For example let's look at Smackdown. Massive deal with Fox which has underperformed apparently but there still isn't an imminent danger of being axed. They are currently in the mode of trying to fix things.


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> Well, nobody can speak for anybody else. All we can do is lay out facts and make logical assumptions from those. So here are the facts:
> 
> 1) AEW got renewed 3 months in which is quicker than expected.
> 
> 2) TNT said in the press release they want to give incentive to AEW to build something long-term, knowing they have some level of security. This also led to MJF getting signed for a long term contract, I believe.
> 
> 3) TNT announced a second show is coming in 2020 (which has since been delayed due to the pandemic)
> 
> I'm sure I'm missing something but the combination of these 3 facts can lead to the logical conclusion TNT finds AEW to be a sound investment and that is why they have locked them up. You can say TNT got a really cheap deal but they still investing money into it which they must expect a return of sorts from.
> 
> TNT can cancel Dynamite, sure. But that's true about pretty much all shows but AEW is doing just as well as they have been so there aren't any indications of Dynamite being cancelled just yet. For example let's look at Smackdown. Massive deal with Fox which has underperformed apparently but there still isn't an imminent danger of being axed. They are currently in the mode of trying to fix things.


I don’t have the time to reply to every point there, but some of those are not facts. And then you put your own thoughts on top of them, which is what you’re supposed to do, but let’s not call them “facts.”

For example, 3 months wasn’t necessarily quicker than expected. That’s just your take. And fair enough if that’s what you expected, but you can’t project that onto everyone else. 



zaz102 said:


> Yeah, still having trouble following the logic, but its not like I know anything either so ain't no thang.
> 
> Not sure if you are just more cynical, but I have to ask- are you an AEW fan? Not to offend, but just curious if you are or not. If not, what are you into? As a recently returned fan, definitely would be interested in hearing what else is out there.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Don’t sell yourself short. I just don’t think a network has to be happy with something to continue airing it. They’re fine with it airing. That’s a completely different set of prerequisites.

Nah, I can’t call myself a fan of AEW now. They lost me. I’m a fan of wrestling and the wrestling business. I’ve been watching classic stuff lately via YouTube and the like. As far as modern stuff goes, I want to support MLW and ROH. I enjoy a lot of New Japan, although I don’t watch as much as I could. WWE sucks, but I believe SmackDown is better than Dynamite.


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> I don’t have the time to reply to every point there, but some of those are not facts. And then you put your own thoughts on top of them, which is what you’re supposed to do, but let’s not call them “facts.”
> 
> For example, 3 months wasn’t necessarily quicker than expected. That’s just your take. And fair enough if that’s what you expected, but you can’t project that onto everyone else.
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t sell yourself short. I just don’t think a network has to be happy with something to continue airing it. They’re fine with it airing. That’s a completely different set of prerequisites.
> 
> Nah, I can’t call myself a fan of AEW now. They lost me. I’m a fan of wrestling and the wrestling business. I’ve been watching classic stuff lately via YouTube and the like. As far as modern stuff goes, I want to support MLW and ROH. I enjoy a lot of New Japan, although I don’t watch as much as I could. WWE sucks, but I believe SmackDown is better than Dynamite.


Is it fair to say you're cynical over the AEW product so you see things with a negative bias and I do so from a positive bias?

I got a question for you. What was the moment where you got turned off by AEW to this extent?


----------



## zaz102

The Wood said:


> I don’t have the time to reply to every point there, but some of those are not facts. And then you put your own thoughts on top of them, which is what you’re supposed to do, but let’s not call them “facts.”
> 
> For example, 3 months wasn’t necessarily quicker than expected. That’s just your take. And fair enough if that’s what you expected, but you can’t project that onto everyone else.
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t sell yourself short. I just don’t think a network has to be happy with something to continue airing it. They’re fine with it airing. That’s a completely different set of prerequisites.
> 
> Nah, I can’t call myself a fan of AEW now. They lost me. I’m a fan of wrestling and the wrestling business. I’ve been watching classic stuff lately via YouTube and the like. As far as modern stuff goes, I want to support MLW and ROH. I enjoy a lot of New Japan, although I don’t watch as much as I could. WWE sucks, but I believe SmackDown is better than Dynamite.


Thanks. I think I need to check out MLW. I think I think I remember reading some decent things on it. What's the best way to watch it?

Also, at another sports forum I visit, I think I have an idea (from another major sports forum) to help with some of the tension I noticed around here-

A "General Wrestling" forum where people can post about any wrestling news including AEW. The goal would be to keep "super fans" in the AEW forum and "super cynics" in the "General Wrestling" forum. And of course there would be crossover for those interested. Does anybody think this a good idea? If so, how can you propose ideas around here?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Definition of Technician said:


> Nah, you're miserable troll and you don't know how to make apples to apples comparisons, so u make apples to oranges. Not only that, you don't understand trends.
> You're too one dimensional and such a geek, you don't know how to think right because you're a miserable troll who wants others to fail because they don't do things 100% your way.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Erik. said:


> Anything less than 900k would be disappointing I think.
> 
> All the titles on the line and it's an anniversary show.


Yeah I agree. I predict 936k/.37 demo


----------



## 3venflow

All Elite Wrestling Celebrates TNT Anniversary; Tony Khan And Chris Jericho Look Back On Dynamite’s Year


All Elite Wrestling president Tony Khan, AEW wrestlers Chris Jericho and "Jungle Boy" Jack Perry and AEW Chief Brand Officer Brandi Rhodes look back on one year of the AEW Dynamite program on TNT and gear up for Dynamite's one year anniversary program at 8PM EST on Wednesday, October 14




www.forbes.com





Another good article on Dynamite. This line from Jericho is interesting.

“Something that we do in AEW is we plan - months and months ahead. We were planning something yesterday that might not happen until November of 2021. But that’s kind of the way we do it.”


----------



## bdon

sim8 said:


> Well, nobody can speak for anybody else. All we can do is lay out facts and make logical assumptions from those. So here are the facts:
> 
> 1) AEW got renewed 3 months in which is quicker than expected.
> 
> 2) TNT said in the press release they want to give incentive to AEW to build something long-term, knowing they have some level of security. This also led to MJF getting signed for a long term contract, I believe.
> 
> 3) TNT announced a second show is coming in 2020 (which has since been delayed due to the pandemic)
> 
> I'm sure I'm missing something but the combination of these 3 facts can lead to the logical conclusion TNT finds AEW to be a sound investment and that is why they have locked them up. You can say TNT got a really cheap deal but they still investing money into it which they must expect a return of sorts from.
> 
> TNT can cancel Dynamite, sure. But that's true about pretty much all shows but AEW is doing just as well as they have been so there aren't any indications of Dynamite being cancelled just yet. For example let's look at Smackdown. Massive deal with Fox which has underperformed apparently but there still isn't an imminent danger of being axed. They are currently in the mode of trying to fix things.


You forgot the recent report that TNT was going to be using AEW and expanding that universe across all forms of WarnerMedia.

And you’re wasting your time with @The Wood on this topic. I love the guy and enjoy hearing his thoughts on most everything wrestling, but they have pissed him off to the point that he can not admit even a modicum of success, not even if the success is relatively small. Heh.


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> Is it fair to say you're cynical over the AEW product so you see things with a negative bias and I do so from a positive bias?
> 
> I got a question for you. What was the moment where you got turned off by AEW to this extent?


I think I see things realistically. Honestly. I don’t know if I agree with the word “cynical,” even if I use it myself self-deprecatingly. I’m WILDLY optimistic about the potential of wrestling. I just don’t see it in AEW.

I can’t tell you the exact point. The first time I thought “Hang on, this is a bit bullshit” is when they falsely advertised the PAC vs. Hangman Page match (which I was looking forward to). The excuses were astounding. “PAC can’t lose.” Okay, then Page wins? Nope, can’t do the match. Fucking weird and set off alarm bells that they don’t really know what they’re doing.

Then the Casino Battle Royale happened. Then Joey Janela took a giant piss on the content without reprimand. And it became obvious they were intent on pushing comedy stuff. I was sour on them before they got to TV, but the TV hasn’t helped them with me. 



zaz102 said:


> Thanks. I think I need to check out MLW. I think I think I remember reading some decent things on it. What's the best way to watch it?
> 
> Also, at another sports forum I visit, I think I have an idea (from another major sports forum) to help with some of the tension I noticed around here-
> 
> A "General Wrestling" forum where people can post about any wrestling news including AEW. The goal would be to keep "super fans" in the AEW forum and "super cynics" in the "General Wrestling" forum. And of course there would be crossover for those interested. Does anybody think this a good idea? If so, how can you propose ideas around here?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


YouTube is the place I use. They’re pretty open about putting their stuff up.

It’s not a bad idea, and it’s great you’re thinking, but honestly, it’s not really necessary. You just have a few people sooking because discussion isn’t universally positive. Most other people don’t want to be in an echo chamber. 



3venflow said:


> All Elite Wrestling Celebrates TNT Anniversary; Tony Khan And Chris Jericho Look Back On Dynamite’s Year
> 
> 
> All Elite Wrestling president Tony Khan, AEW wrestlers Chris Jericho and "Jungle Boy" Jack Perry and AEW Chief Brand Officer Brandi Rhodes look back on one year of the AEW Dynamite program on TNT and gear up for Dynamite's one year anniversary program at 8PM EST on Wednesday, October 14
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another good article on Dynamite. This line from Jericho is interesting.
> 
> “Something that we do in AEW is we plan - months and months ahead. We were planning something yesterday that might not happen until November of 2021. But that’s kind of the way we do it.”


I call bullshit on that. So many of their stories don’t even make it week-to-week. And when was the last truly great developing story they told? Jericho and Cody? How long did that last?



bdon said:


> You forgot the recent report that TNT was going to be using AEW and expanding that universe across all forms of WarnerMedia.
> 
> And you’re wasting your time with @The Wood on this topic. I love the guy and enjoy hearing his thoughts on most everything wrestling, but they have pissed him off to the point that he can not admit even a modicum of success, not even if the success is relatively small. Heh.


Can you imagine WarnerMedia coming out and saying “We don’t care about this property. We have no plans for it so don’t expect to see it go anywhere”?


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> I think I see things realistically. Honestly. I don’t know if I agree with the word “cynical,” even if I use it myself self-deprecatingly. I’m WILDLY optimistic about the potential of wrestling. I just don’t see it in AEW.
> 
> I can’t tell you the exact point. The first time I thought “Hang on, this is a bit bullshit” is when they falsely advertised the PAC vs. Hangman Page match (which I was looking forward to). The excuses were astounding. “PAC can’t lose.” Okay, then Page wins? Nope, can’t do the match. Fucking weird and set off alarm bells that they don’t really know what they’re doing.
> 
> Then the Casino Battle Royale happened. Then Joey Janela took a giant piss on the content without reprimand. And it became obvious they were intent on pushing comedy stuff. I was sour on them before they got to TV, but the TV hasn’t helped them with me.
> 
> 
> 
> YouTube is the place I use. They’re pretty open about putting their stuff up.
> 
> It’s not a bad idea, and it’s great you’re thinking, but honestly, it’s not really necessary. You just have a few people sooking because discussion isn’t universally positive. Most other people don’t want to be in an echo chamber.
> 
> 
> 
> I call bullshit on that. So many of their stories don’t even make it week-to-week. And when was the last truly great developing story they told? Jericho and Cody? How long did that last?
> 
> 
> 
> Can you imagine WarnerMedia coming out and saying “We don’t care about this property. We have no plans for it so don’t expect to see it go anywhere”?


God you’re such a prick. Lol

Of course they HAVE to say the right things. Saying and doing are two totally different things, right? So, why is AEW getting a second show? One that Cody rHHHodes (gag) says will be on “WarnerMedia” and not TNT.

They’re putting their money where their mouth is.

Now we can discuss how terrible of an idea even I think this will be, but they FACT is that WarnerMedia has used AEW to grab ratings at multiple times throughout the week, propped it on NBA telecasts, giving a second show, does Countdown to the PPV shows on TNT, etc.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> God you’re such a prick. Lol
> 
> Of course they HAVE to say the right things. Saying and doing are two totally different things, right? So, why is AEW getting a second show? One that Cody rHHHodes (gag) says will be on “WarnerMedia” and not TNT.
> 
> They’re putting their money where their mouth is.
> 
> Now we can discuss how terrible of an idea even I think this will be, but they FACT is that WarnerMedia has used AEW to grab ratings at multiple times throughout the week, propped it on NBA telecasts, giving a second show, does Countdown to the PPV shows on TNT, etc.


What money? Are they even paying more for the show? I thought it was included in the deal that Dynamite has?

People take the saying as doing. And you know that, which is why you’re smart enough to draw the distinction.

And absolutely none of those things listed means that they are “happy” with them. They could feel obliged to give them further promotion or resent that it gets numbers from mouth-breathing wrestling fans.

To project love hearts appearing over their eyes whenever they think of AEW is my gripe here. There’s no way to know if AEW is even meeting their expectations. Using them doesn’t necessitate that at all.

That goes to the WWE too. Are FOX happy with SmackDown? It gets a 0.6 in the demo and they often put on auxiliary programming around it. And they wanted NXT. But that doesn’t mean that they’re “happy” with 2 million viewers or the WWE’s overall performance when it comes to engaging fans. It doesn’t mean the executives aware of it like the content. It’s just a business deal that is holding true right now.


----------



## bdon

I wonder if HBO was happy with Game of Thrones..? I wonder if NBC really cared about MASH..? No way of really knowing.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I wonder if HBO was happy with Game of Thrones..? I wonder if NBC really cared about MASH..? No way of really knowing.


I’m willing to bet both those shows were way more successful than AEW is for TNT.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> I’m willing to bet both those shows were way more successful than AEW is for TNT.


Success does not equate to them being “happy” with the shows, though. TV Execs might have looked down on Game of Thrones for its base in Dungeons and Dragons.

”The point is we DON’T know.” Haha

I don’t even think AEW is successful enough to thump my chest saying TNT is over the moon, but you really do let your cynical side blur things, bro. Lol


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Success does not equate to them being “happy” with the shows, though. TV Execs might have looked down on Game of Thrones for its base in Dungeons and Dragons.
> 
> ”The point is we DON’T know.” Haha
> 
> I don’t even think AEW is successful enough to thump my chest saying TNT is over the moon, but you really do let your cynical side blur things, bro. Lol


That’s a gross misrepresentation of what I said though. Legit. The differences between year-round live entertainment and shows with limited runs. The cost for producing and purchasing the rights for those shows is probably way higher too.

Paying $45 million for a year-round program to fill up two hours a week is just not the same thing as buying a Game of Thrones. And you know this, haha.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> That’s a gross misrepresentation of what I said though. Legit. The differences between year-round live entertainment and shows with limited runs. The cost for producing and purchasing the rights for those shows is probably way higher too.
> 
> Paying $45 million for a year-round program to fill up two hours a week is just not the same thing as buying a Game of Thrones. And you know this, haha.


If I weren’t reaching, I wouldn’t be me. Lol

And while I understand your point, you have to know you’re being a little obtuse about the situation.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> If I weren’t reaching, I wouldn’t be me. Lol
> 
> And while I understand your point, you have to know you’re being a little obtuse about the situation.


For the spirit of agreeing with you, I’ll just agree with you, haha. I’ve never said they’re _not_ happy, for the record. I just hate it when people say that they are, because it’s such a presumption.

Everyone is happy until a show gets canceled by that logic.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> For the spirit of agreeing with you, I’ll just agree with you, haha. I’ve never said they’re _not_ happy, for the record. I just hate it when people say that they are, because it’s such a presumption.
> 
> Everyone is happy until a show gets canceled by that logic.


Ok cool. Some fans definitely try to leverage the extension and things like that to mean more than it is. To me it just means they’re doing well enough that TNT sees the POTENTIAL for it to do really, really well.


----------



## The Wood

They definitely don’t see it as something that needs to be binned right now.


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> All Elite Wrestling Celebrates TNT Anniversary; Tony Khan And Chris Jericho Look Back On Dynamite’s Year
> 
> 
> All Elite Wrestling president Tony Khan, AEW wrestlers Chris Jericho and "Jungle Boy" Jack Perry and AEW Chief Brand Officer Brandi Rhodes look back on one year of the AEW Dynamite program on TNT and gear up for Dynamite's one year anniversary program at 8PM EST on Wednesday, October 14
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another good article on Dynamite. This line from Jericho is interesting.
> 
> “Something that we do in AEW is we plan - months and months ahead. We were planning something yesterday that might not happen until November of 2021. But that’s kind of the way we do it.”


So they were actually planning month and month ago to have a shitshow as the 1 year anniversary? Impressive.

Regarding ratings, I sadly see them get close to 1m viewers, so they will not realize how bad and bland this show was.


----------



## The Wood

The more people who watch their bad shows, the harder the splat is going to be when they fall.


----------



## 3venflow

Or maybe their target audience (the 'demo') is entertained enough to keep on watching and it simply isn't for you?

Remember, 'bad show' is purely subjective. Type #AEWDynamite into social media and you'll see the other side. I personally thought the show could have been much better, yet at the same time not nearly as bad as some of the drama queens on here said. It had a couple of good matches (Mox/Archer, Best Friends/FTR were good matches for free TV, Cody vs. Cassidy was a decent carry job too) and segments, yet lacked a certain energy that AEW has benefited from in past episodes.

When I stop liking a product... I switch off and don't think about it much. I don't understand the waves of posts trashing a product you're almost certainly never gonna like and making this place an echo chamber. Most people would have just moved on to IMPACT, ROH, Smackdown or whatever by now. I mean, if we don't watch wrestling to enjoy ourselves, what is the point?


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> Or maybe their target audience (the 'demo') is entertained enough to keep on watching and it simply isn't for you?
> 
> Remember, 'bad show' is purely subjective. Type #AEWDynamite into social media and you'll see the other side. I personally thought the show could have been much better, yet at the same time not nearly as bad as some of the drama queens on here said. It had a couple of good matches (Mox/Archer, Best Friends/FTR were good matches for free TV, Cody vs. Cassidy was a decent carry job too) and segments, yet lacked a certain energy that AEW has benefited from in past episodes.
> 
> When I stop liking a product... I switch off and don't think about it much. I don't understand the waves of posts trashing a product you're almost certainly never gonna like and making this place an echo chamber. Most people would have just moved on to IMPACT, ROH, Smackdown or whatever by now. I mean, if we don't watch wrestling to enjoy ourselves, what is the point?


(groan) People who care about wrestling are going to comment on wrestling. It happens with everything. Call it criticism, call it commentary, call it opinion, call it whatever. Stop trying to imply that people should just switch off to the wrestling world if it frustrates them. People would do it if it were that easy for them. Some people either can’t or don’t want to turn away from something that matters a fair bit to them.

And “bad” isn’t as subjective as you think.


----------



## 3venflow

The Wood said:


> (groan) People who care about wrestling are going to comment on wrestling. It happens with everything. Call it criticism, call it commentary, call it opinion, call it whatever. Stop trying to imply that people should just switch off to the wrestling world if it frustrates them. People would do it if it were that easy for them. Some people either can’t or don’t want to turn away from something that matters a fair bit to them.


I care about wrestling as it's a lifelong interest, but I'm not going to make my next 100 posts trashing the WWE on their boards because I don't like their product anymore. That would be pathetic. I _want_ WWE to become more watchable again, but in the meantime I'll watch what I enjoy and regularly check in to see if they are improving. Logical, right?

A quick glance at your Latest Activity... it's ALL AEW, it's ALL negativity. Nothing on other boards, just utter obsession with crapping on everything AEW does and patronising people who like it.

Do you watch anything you enjoy and if so, why do you never comment on that? Are you just naturally a negative person? You think AEW sucks and that's fine, but turning this place into your own personal echo chamber isn't going to make everyone else feel the same. It just becomes obnoxious tbh, especially when it moves into smarmy douche territory ("Buuuuuut AEW is soooo much better than WWE!!!!11").



> And “bad” isn’t as subjective as you think.


In this case it is, you cannot say Dynamite is 'bad' as a fact when so many people enjoy it. Otherwise, that makes you an egomaniac who elevates your views over everyone else's. People find it refreshing after years of a monopoly and like it. I've been watching wrestling since 1990 - American and Japanese - and would not claim my views are superior to anyone else's. I would say I have experience of many different products to compare them (and people do romanticise certain eras), but I'm not going to say: AEW is good and if you disagree, you're wrong.


----------



## bdon

Even when I loved most everything they were doing early on, I still enjoyed having @The Wood around. It’s nice having opposing perspective, not like I hit the ignore button on any fucking moron saying that Cody vs Cassidy was great.


----------



## 3venflow

bdon said:


> Even when I loved most everything they were doing early on, I still enjoyed having @The Wood around. It’s nice having opposing perspective, not like I hit the ignore button on any fucking moron saying that Cody vs Cassidy was great.


I'm not against critique either... I've been negative about Cassidy, the women's division etc. A lot of people on here have very balanced views. But when a person's entire persona is to flood the board with sheer, ferocious contempt for a product and even its fans then... why? It goes beyond criticism to a sort of pathological need to convince everyone of how shit AEW is.


----------



## One Shed

3venflow said:


> I'm not against critique either... I've been negative about Cassidy, the women's division etc. A lot of people on here have very balanced views. But when a person's entire persona is to flood the board with sheer, ferocious contempt for a product and even its fans then... why? It goes beyond criticism to a sort of pathological need to convince everyone of how shit AEW is.


I think a lot of the passion comes from the fact that they DO have the tools to make a great show, and have had several great shows. Then they give us what they did last week and last night. WWE has PTSD'd us into being all "meh" about it. That is why I am mostly meh, who cares about WWE because they taught me to expect mediocre to poor for 15 years now. AEW was an actual chance at something fresh and they keep insisting on injecting WWE lite goofy nonsense into it and then some people on here cannot see that such things are exactly things Vince would do on his off days. So yeah, I expect a lot of people to be pissed on here after having seen the previous two weeks of shows.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> I think a lot of the passion comes from the fact that they DO have the tools to make a great show, and have had several great shows. Then they give us what they did last week and last night. WWE has PTSD'd us into being all "meh" about it. That is why I am mostly meh, who cares about WWE because they taught me to expect mediocre to poor for 15 years now. AEW was an actual chance at something fresh and they keep insisting on injecting WWE lite goofy nonsense into it and then some people on here cannot see that such things are exactly things Vince would do on his off days. So yeah, I expect a lot of people to be pissed on here after having seen the previous two weeks of shows.


_cough_

Shows that were even heavier on the Cody and Jericho stinch!

_cough_


----------



## bdon

Sooo, I suppose we’re all just going to pretend to not notice the decline in shows since Cody returned and needed 20+ minutes per episode to get and keep himself and his shit over, eh? Nah? Cool.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> _cough_
> 
> Shows that were even heavier on the Cody and Jericho stinch!
> 
> _cough_


Jericho was awesome up until he lost the title though. Lowering himself to lose to a goof is the problem. If they gave us Jericho/MJF RIGHT after he lost the belt, I think it would have been awesome too. Now I cannot take him seriously and...they are having STEAK! My best Michael Cole impression: "ooohhhhhh MYYYYYY!"


----------



## La Parka

Jericho / MJF would've been amazing about half a year ago.

Now Jericho is bringing MJF down to his unfunny level and it sucks.


----------



## bdon

Jericho is flat out garbage right now, and I really hope he either straightens up soon or stays the hell away from MJF and the rest of the main event scene.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Amazing to me that people didn't enjoy last night. Not sure pro wrestling in 2020 is for you guys at this point. The 80s are long gone.


----------



## Klitschko

bdon said:


> Jericho is flat out garbage right now, and I really hope he either straightens up soon or stays the hell away from MJF and the rest of the main event scene.


We all know he will put MJF over like he does to everyone but honestly, late 2020 Chris Jericho has less credibility in him left then the version that jobbed to Fandango.


----------



## bdon

Klitschko said:


> We all know he will put MJF over like he does to everyone but honestly, late 2020 Chris Jericho has less credibility in him left then the version that jobbed to Fandango.


I don’t even know what a Fandango is, but I’ve seen y’all mention his name a few times. I assume it was a half-human creature Vince concocted?

I don’t want MJF near Jericho, because Jericho lost his title and is acting like a spoiled child. MJF needs credibility, to maintain a certain ferocity and evil nature to his character. The MJF that was wiping Moxley’s blood in his face, standing over Mox’s body in suit pants and a wife beater is a top fucking heel in this industry.

That guy couldn’t be any further from the one we saw last night.


----------



## El Hammerstone

bdon said:


> I don’t even know what a Fandango is, but I’ve seen y’all mention his name a few times. I assume it was a half-human creature Vince concocted?
> 
> I don’t want MJF near Jericho, because Jericho lost his title and is acting like a spoiled child. MJF needs credibility, to maintain a certain ferocity and evil nature to his character. The MJF that was wiping Moxley’s blood in his face, standing over Mox’s body in suit pants and a wife beater is a top fucking heel in this industry.
> 
> That guy couldn’t be any further from the one we saw last night.


Well, as ridiculous as Jericho's loss to Fandango made him look, the guy was a legit 6'4" and built very well, albeit with a stupid gimmick. Orange Cassidy looked like a child playfighting with his father while in there with Jericho (even without the usual schtick); Jericho, who I should remind you, spent a good portion of his career in WCW's Cruiserweight division.


----------



## Garty

Klitschko said:


> We all know he will put MJF over like he does to everyone but honestly, late 2020 Chris Jericho has less credibility in him left then the version that jobbed to Fandango.


No, Chris has done and continues to do, his "job". He was brought into the company and given the AEW Championship because he was the most recognizable free-agent name out there. He gave AEW instant credibility, built an audience, grew a fanbase, dominated TV ratings, brought them mainstream attention and now, he's giving back to the business and to the younger talent in AEW. He carried the company on his back from the beginning and when it was time to push Jon Moxley, he took a bit of a backseat, while still catering to his fans and the AEW audience.

Now, he's become the teacher and helped elevate guys like, Orange Cassidy, Jungle Boy, Sammy Guevara, Darby Allin, to name a few. Now, it's MJF's time to get that rub, from one of the best in the business. Anyone that thinks Jericho hasn't done anything, proved anything, showed nothing and gave nothing, are complete hypocrites. Once his contract is up, he will return to WWE, retire and go into the Hall of Fame, as well he should. Maybe by that time, there'll be enough room made, to allow you all, back onto the bandwagon.


----------



## RapShepard

Garty said:


> No, Chris has done and continues to do, his "job". He was brought into the company and given the AEW Championship because he was the most recognizable free-agent name out there. He gave AEW instant credibility, built an audience, grew a fanbase, dominated TV ratings, brought them mainstream attention and now, he's giving back to the business and to the younger talent in AEW. He carried the company on his back from the beginning and when it was time to push Jon Moxley, he took a bit of a backseat, while still catering to his fans and the AEW audience.
> 
> Now, he's become the teacher and helped elevate guys like, Orange Cassidy, *Jungle Boy*, Sammy Guevara, *Darby Allin*, to name a few. Now, it's MJF's time to get that rub, from one of the best in the business. Anyone that thinks Jericho hasn't done anything, proved anything, showed nothing and gave nothing, are complete hypocrites. Once his contract is up, he will return to WWE, retire and go into the Hall of Fame, as well he should. Maybe by that time, there'll be enough room made, to allow you all, back onto the bandwagon.


when did he exactly elevate those 2? Having one match that nobody talks about anymore isn't exactly elevating.


----------



## RainmakerV2

RapShepard said:


> when did he exactly elevate those 2? Having one match that nobody talks about anymore isn't exactly elevating.



Its the typical defense of their booking. "Well they have big plans for Darby and Jungleboy, you wait till they actually beat Cody or Jericho, its gonna be HUGE! Long term storytelling, stop being so impatient." 

When they actually get said big wins and become big stars still seems to be a mystery.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1316834774237863937


----------



## Garty

RapShepard said:


> when did he exactly elevate those 2? Having one match that nobody talks about anymore isn't exactly elevating.


Oh, I must have forgotten something then?! Hmm, you're right... he's done nothing for AEW. My bad.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Not a good number, show was pretty bad too.


----------



## Erik.

Up on last week but a disappointing number.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1316835534182977536


----------



## RainmakerV2

Lackluster show, lackluster rating.


----------



## RapShepard

RainmakerV2 said:


> Its the typical defense of their booking. "Well they have big plans for Darby and Jungleboy, you wait till they actually beat Cody or Jericho, its gonna be HUGE! Long term storytelling, stop being so impatient."
> 
> When they actually get said big wins and become big stars still seems to be a mystery.


Hopefully Darby finally beats Cody at Full Gear, but both should've been used better the first year. Jurassic Express went from a team folk thought would be the 2nd biggest babyfaces behind the Buck's to irrelevant in the division. With Darby it's like they're overdoing the "he's over and will be over after a loss". A year in his biggest win is either Ricky Stark or Sammy Guevara who also lose a bunch. 

Long term storytelling is definitely over used tho. Makes sense on Hangman vs Omega and even what Darby and Cody have. But I seen someone say maybe Omega faces Jungle Boy in the tournament due to what he did to Marko months ago, and say so many stories were possible in the tournament.


----------



## RapShepard

Garty said:


> Oh, I must have forgotten something then?! Hmm, you're right... he's done nothing for AEW. My bad.


No don't deflect, I asked specifically about those 2. He certainly helped Sammy and OC. But what did he do for Jungle Boy and Darby, surely you can back up your own argument.


----------



## Ozell Gray

So only a small bump for Dynamite. The show should've boosted viewership numbers higher considering it was their anniversary show.


----------



## bdon

KILLER FUCKING RATING FOR A KILLER FUCKING SHOW, BABY!!! WAY TO KNOCK IT OUT THE PARK ON YOUR ANNIVERSARY!!!! Wooooooooo!!!!!!


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

They literally went down in the demo with way less competition, and an anniversary show. 

Can't spin this in anyway to be a good number, hopefully they'll learn from the show and improve, the booking last night was very questionable.


----------



## Garty

RainmakerV2 said:


> Its the typical defense of their booking. "Well they have big plans for Darby and Jungleboy, you wait till they actually beat Cody or Jericho, its gonna be HUGE! Long term storytelling, stop being so impatient."
> 
> When they actually get said big wins and become big stars still seems to be a mystery.


Should they have been the main-event immediately afterwards? Given Championships? Put on all of the advertising? Even if they were honored with those accolades, you'd be right here complaining that what they're doing is just crazy.

So, which of the two choices would you rather go with? I'm going to guess and say neither. Right?!


----------



## bdon

“CoDy RhOdEs’ sTuFf iS aLwAyS bOoKeD lOgIcAlLy!!!”


----------



## fabi1982

Seems the debate wasnt the reason for last weeks rating.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Garty said:


> Should they have been the main-event immediately afterwards? Given Championships? Put on all of the advertising? Even if they were honored with those accolades, you'd be right here complaining that what they're doing is just crazy.
> 
> So, which of the two choices would you rather go with? I'm going to guess and say neither. Right?!



Either one of them could have been TV champ by now, but they made a stipulation that their biggest egomaniac cant win the world title, so has to have it.


----------



## Garty

RapShepard said:


> No don't deflect, I asked specifically about those 2. He certainly helped Sammy and OC. But what did he do for Jungle Boy and Darby, surely you can back up your own argument.


Why bother?! You're right and I'm wrong. I mean we can go back and forth all day, but again, why bother? I'm not going to change your mind and you're not going to change my mind, so what's left to discuss? See how it works like that?


----------



## bdon

Does anyone realize we’re now 3 weeks from the PPV with little to no fucking build!? Goddamn Cody coming back threw a fucking wrench in what had been very good television the prior 5 weeks.


----------



## Erik.

bdon said:


> Does anyone realize we’re now 3 weeks from the PPV with little to no fucking build!? Goddamn Cody coming back threw a fucking wrench in what had been very good television the prior 5 weeks.


You can build a PPV in 3 weeks.

I can already tell you half the card - it won't be too hard to build most of the matches. 

FTR/Bucks has been brewing for years.
Moxley/Kingston has already started
Some would say Omega/Page was the best story this year.


----------



## Alright_Mate

For an anniversary show I would have expected 900k, the past few shows have been poor though and that resonates in the ratings.

They are starting to hit an average streak again, average to poor shows will post between 700-900k region, they’ll continue to post that kind of number, until they start producing quality shows again like we saw around the July period.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Pretty bad, Deservedly so.
I was expecting a 890K-920K.


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> I care about wrestling as it's a lifelong interest, but I'm not going to make my next 100 posts trashing the WWE on their boards because I don't like their product anymore. That would be pathetic. I _want_ WWE to become more watchable again, but in the meantime I'll watch what I enjoy and regularly check in to see if they are improving. Logical, right?
> 
> A quick glance at your Latest Activity... it's ALL AEW, it's ALL negativity. Nothing on other boards, just utter obsession with crapping on everything AEW does and patronising people who like it.
> 
> Do you watch anything you enjoy and if so, why do you never comment on that? Are you just naturally a negative person? You think AEW sucks and that's fine, but turning this place into your own personal echo chamber isn't going to make everyone else feel the same. It just becomes obnoxious tbh, especially when it moves into smarmy douche territory ("Buuuuuut AEW is soooo much better than WWE!!!!11").
> 
> 
> 
> In this case it is, you cannot say Dynamite is 'bad' as a fact when so many people enjoy it. Otherwise, that makes you an egomaniac who elevates your views over everyone else's. People find it refreshing after years of a monopoly and like it. I've been watching wrestling since 1990 - American and Japanese - and would not claim my views are superior to anyone else's. I would say I have experience of many different products to compare them (and people do romanticise certain eras), but I'm not going to say: AEW is good and if you disagree, you're wrong.


That’s what you do. Others may not want to do what you do. The irony of labelling people as elitist and then saying “Well, _I_ do this logical activity...”

I post on other boards. Discussion isn’t as fun there. Also, why are you looking at my activity? Weirdo.

People liking AEW doesn’t mean it’s good. No one ever accused yanks of having good taste. Not sure where you’re going with that point at all. I can recognise that AEW isn’t good with a working brain.



3venflow said:


> I'm not against critique either... I've been negative about Cassidy, the women's division etc. A lot of people on here have very balanced views. But when a person's entire persona is to flood the board with sheer, ferocious contempt for a product and even its fans then... why? It goes beyond criticism to a sort of pathological need to convince everyone of how shit AEW is.


My purpose in here is to discuss wrestling. If it sounds negative, it’s because the wrestling sucks. And I don’t insult anyone on here directly. Meanwhile, I’ve had threads made about me, get called a troll, and am otherwise insulted. It says more about the people doing that and their insecurities, in my opinion, but let’s be honest about the fandom here.

Anyway, pretty shit rating. It deserved lower viewership, but they dropped in that “precious” demo. Probably the awful show last week doing a tiny bit of damage. This show might do more.

I’m just waiting for the apologists to come in and defend the number, even though most of them were predicting 900k or 1 million.


----------



## qntntgood

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Not a good number, show was pretty bad too.


This number is saying that aew has not grown in over year or created new fans of there product, in other words they are floundering.


----------



## bdon

Erik. said:


> You can build a PPV in 3 weeks.
> 
> I can already tell you half the card - it won't be too hard to build most of the matches.
> 
> FTR/Bucks has been brewing for years.
> Moxley/Kingston has already started
> Some would say Omega/Page was the best story this year.


How did that 3 week build for Brodie Lee and Mox work out?


----------



## Erik.

Is it normal that 9 of the top 15 ranked shows were on Fox News?


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> Does anyone realize we’re now 3 weeks from the PPV with little to no fucking build!? Goddamn Cody coming back threw a fucking wrench in what had been very good television the prior 5 weeks.


But Cody/Darby already started building last night...with an image...and Darby in the cheap seats. So at least the young talent Cody has a good build


----------



## rbl85

RelivingTheShadow said:


> They literally went down in the demo with way less competition, and an anniversary show.
> 
> Can't spin this in anyway to be a good number, hopefully they'll learn from the show and improve, the booking last night was very questionable.


For the 4187498781 times (and until now i'm always right about that)

The quality of the show have a tiny incidence on it's ratings.

We will know later but you'll see that AEW started the show with more or less 900k.

So before saying " the show was bad, they deserve it", the show could have been great, the rating would have been pretty much the same.

Now you can say that the people had way less interest in this card than what we thought.


----------



## Erik.

bdon said:


> How did that 3 week build for Brodie Lee and Mox work out?


Not too bad actually. 

Brodie Lee looked brilliant in the build up and they killed it at the PPV.

Was probably the best built world title feud Moxley has been involved in. Though I think Kingston/Moxley will change that.


----------



## fabi1982

Erik. said:


> Is it normal that 9 of the top 15 ranked shows were on Fox News?


Probably the reason for the low AEW rating.


----------



## Erik.

fabi1982 said:


> Probably the reason for the low AEW rating.


Well, no shit.

I'm just amazed at how many people are glued to Fox News.

Is that down to election season?

If so, then this will be the average rating for AEW for the rest of the year.


----------



## The Wood

1.4 million people watching. How about that growth? Fuck’s sake.


----------



## RapShepard

Garty said:


> Why bother?! You're right and I'm wrong. I mean we can go back and forth all day, but again, why bother? I'm not going to change your mind and you're not going to change my mind, so what's left to discuss? See how it works like that?


Jesus Christ why the melodrama. What you think he did for Jungle Boy and Darby is a simple answer.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Erik. said:


> Is it normal that 9 of the top 15 ranked shows were on Fox News?



Well yeah, Fox always kills it in the ratings. The other news networks are just 24/7 bash trump factories. Like we get it already. It gets old.


----------



## The Wood

Some people measure intentions and not effect.


----------



## sim8

bdon said:


> Does anyone realize we’re now 3 weeks from the PPV with little to no fucking build!? Goddamn Cody coming back threw a fucking wrench in what had been very good television the prior 5 weeks.


Not Cody's fault. This has been an issue all year to be honest.


----------



## fabi1982

Erik. said:


> Well, no shit.
> 
> I'm just amazed at how many people are glued to Fox News.
> 
> Is that down to election season?
> 
> If so, then this will be the average rating for AEW for the rest of the year.


The only two out of the 9 „competing“ with AEW are the same ones as every week, this tucker guy and hannity. But see, now you have an excuse for the rest of the year. And I guess you didnt know that the election is around the corner when you commented „everything below 900k is a dissapointment“?

Maybe also ise MLB as an excuse, or hey „love at first sight“ also topped AEW, damn these rating thiefs


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> Not Cody's fault. This has been an issue all year to be honest.


Kind of agree. While I definitely think you’re right about Cody, bdon, AEW wouldn’t exactly be great without him.


----------



## Erik.

fabi1982 said:


> The only two out of the 9 „competing“ with AEW are the same ones as every week, this tucker guy and hannity. But see, now you have an excuse for the rest of the year. And I guess you didnt know that the election is around the corner when you commented „everything below 900k is a dissapointment“?
> 
> Maybe also ise MLB as an excuse, or hey „love at first sight“ also topped AEW, damn these rating thiefs


Well, obviously not or I wouldn't have said it.

Do I post like an American?


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> You can build a PPV in 3 weeks.
> 
> I can already tell you half the card - it won't be too hard to build most of the matches.
> 
> FTR/Bucks has been brewing for years.
> Moxley/Kingston has already started
> Some would say Omega/Page was the best story this year.


They really should get out of this habit given the time between PPVs. They have 3 months between PPVs, yet somehow always seem to be scrambling to cobble something together. 3 weeks of build would be more understandable on a 12 PPV cycle with constant storytelling through PPVs. Not so much with the current structure though. Luckily Moxley's story has been brewing and Omega and Page has too. But the women's match and Bucks vs FTR are going to be cold. Darby vs Cody works due to match history.


----------



## fabi1982

Erik. said:


> Well, obviously not or I wouldn't have said it.
> 
> Do I post like an American?


I can see your UK flag, but I thought that a human being with a pulse knows elections are coming and basically have been topic for like 3 month now at least. Even here in Germany you cant go around knowing its election time in the US. Trump basically makes it impossible not to know.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> They really should get out of this habit given the time between PPVs. They have 3 months between PPVs, yet somehow always seem to be scrambling to cobble something together. 3 weeks of build would be more understandable on a 12 PPV cycle with constant storytelling through PPVs. Not so much with the current structure though. Luckily Moxley's story has been brewing and Omega and Page has too. But the women's match and Bucks vs FTR are going to be cold. Darby vs Cody works due to match history.


Sammy vs Matt also has history - but they've stumbled upon that due to Matt's injury in their last match.

Funnily enough, Full Gear will probably be their best built PPV since Revolution if everything goes right between now and the actual event. 

I think they could do with adding 2 more PPVs across the year and lowering the PPV fee by about $15 to make up difference. Especially now the roster is really increasing in size.


----------



## bdon

sim8 said:


> Not Cody's fault. This has been an issue all year to be honest.


The shows had been pretty good from the time he left tv to the time he came back. More short segments, more air time for everyone. The bleach blonde dipshit comes back and eats up 25 minutes a fucking night.


----------



## Erik.

fabi1982 said:


> I can see your UK flag, but I thought that a human being with a pulse knows elections are coming and basically have been topic for like 3 month now at least. Even here in Germany you cant go around knowing its election time in the US. Trump basically makes it impossible not to know.


I have zero interest in politics, especially anything American related.

I know it's election season - I don't care enough about American television and their programming though to know when people are to tune in to watch election related events or what days said events are on. I'm not like a few here who will tune in to something I dislike and then find a related forum and shit on it. So I stay clear from politics talk.

If this is the norm when it comes to morons watching numerous Fox News related channels every Wednesday - then I can't see AEW getting many higher ratings than this weeks show considering what was booked. Hopefully by the time the election seasons is over, there may be some semblance of a wrestling show again with more and more fans allowed in.


----------



## RainmakerV2

RapShepard said:


> They really should get out of this habit given the time between PPVs. They have 3 months between PPVs, yet somehow always seem to be scrambling to cobble something together. 3 weeks of build would be more understandable on a 12 PPV cycle with constant storytelling through PPVs. Not so much with the current structure though. Luckily Moxley's story has been brewing and Omega and Page has too. But the women's match and Bucks vs FTR are going to be cold. Darby vs Cody works due to match history.



For a company that plans stuff years in advance they sure do seem to be in scramble mode a lot huh? Lol.


Again, this is mainly because theres way too many pointless 20 minute matches on the show. During a pandemic when you dont have to sell tickets the show should be wayyy more angle and vignettte driven to build up to the PPVs and big shows. Theres just way too much wrestling. Yes, that is possible on a wrestling TV show. And its not even unpredictable. FTR aint losing. Cody aint losing unless hes got a TV show to film, Shida aint losing, Mox aint losing. Jericho and Hager aint losing. Its boring.


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> Sammy vs Matt also has history - but they've stumbled upon that due to Matt's injury in their last match.
> 
> Funnily enough, Full Gear will probably be their best built PPV since Revolution if everything goes right between now and the actual event.
> 
> I think they could do with adding 2 more PPVs across the year and lowering the PPV fee by about $15 to make up difference. Especially now the roster is really increasing in size.


Unfortunately they can't d much about PPV price until they have enough content to do a network WWE style. PPV providers take a big chunk out. 

I forgot Matt vs Sammy already lol. I honestly would prefer they go the 12 PPV route. I think it just really works for wrestling given all the content in a month. With the new show they'll be at 12 hours of new content a month without counting Dark. I think a PPV is a good cap off for that time sink.


----------



## fabi1982

Erik. said:


> I have zero interest in politics, especially anything American related.
> 
> I know it's election season - I don't care enough about American television and their programming though to know when people are to tune in to watch election related events or what days said events are on. I'm not like a few here who will tune in to something I dislike and then find a related forum and shit on it. So I stay clear from politics talk.


So you know its election time. And even without wanting it you cant not know what is going on over there. Or you just dont watch/read/hear any news/news related peogramming.

Anyways, now you know why the ratings will be bad the next three month (btw election is early November). Oh and then is Christmas, also something huge in the US, then New Years. Wintertime usually ratings tank in general, but right around April there should be a TOTAL UNOPPOSED wednesday without anything else on besides Dynamite. Maybe then they can get a better rating?!


----------



## Klitschko

826k for a big anniversary show is not great. A lot of people probably stayed to the end just hoping for something interesting to happen. I'm guessing they made some people mad and will be below 800k next week.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> Unfortunately they can't douch about PPV price until they have enough content to do a network WWE style. PPV providers take a big chunk out.
> 
> I forgot Matt vs Sammy already lol. I honestly would prefer they go the 12 PPV route. I think it just really works for wrestling given all the content in a month. With the new show they'll be at 12 hours of new content a month without counting Dark. I think a PPV is a good cap off for that time sink.


Ah - in that case, I can totally see them keeping just the 4 PPVs then. They sort of get round that with booking towards special Dynamite events like "Bash at the Beach" and "Blood n Guts" etc. - but it does for the most part mean some title matches definitely are rushed along or filler. 

I think 12 is just too much personally.

January - ?
March - REVOLUTION
May - DON
August - ALL OUT
October - FULL GEAR
December - ?

Would be fine in my opinion. 2 months between events should be more than enough to use their huge roster. 

I do think it's time for them though to move upwards from 4 though.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Average AEW rating. Need to break that glass ceiling.


----------



## Erik.

fabi1982 said:


> So you know its election time. And even without wanting it you cant not know what is going on over there. Or you just dont watch/read/hear any news/news related peogramming.
> 
> Anyways, now you know why the ratings will be bad the next three month (btw election is early November). Oh and then is Christmas, also something huge in the US, then New Years. Wintertime usually ratings tank in general, but right around April there should be a TOTAL UNOPPOSED wednesday without anything else on besides Dynamite. Maybe then they can get a better rating?!


I rarely watch TV mate.

Again, define bad. 826k isn't a bad number. Sure, for an anniversary show with all the titles on the line it is. But I think they'd be rather happy if they were hovering between 800k and 900k from now until the end of the year. Occasionally going above 900k which they seem to do every other month on average. 

Also again, you go on like I care what rating they get. They could get 600k like NXT do for all I care. What other people are watching on a Wednesday night doesn't affect my feelings on a show or how good a show is.


----------



## One Shed

No spinning that number. Have your biggest TV show of the year full of a mostly lackluster card following one of your worst shows of the year? This is what you get. #RebootPlease.


----------



## fabi1982

Erik. said:


> I rarely watch TV mate.
> 
> Again, define bad. 826k isn't a bad number. Sure, for an anniversary show with all the titles on the line it is. But I think they'd be rather happy if they were hovering between 800k and 900k from now until the end of the year. Occasionally going above 900k which they seem to do every other month on average.
> 
> Also again, you go on like I care what rating they get. They could get 600k like NXT do for all I care. What other people are watching on a Wednesday night doesn't affect my feelings on a show or how good a show is.


Yeah you care, otherwise you wouldnt look for excuses and trying to find a way. And if I remember correctly you parade around all the time they do „good“ ratings.

And not pointed at you but in general, it is quite funny that the night they did 1m everyone was raving and saying from now on they will do that and maybe end with a 1.2 avg by the end of the year and look what AEW does, produce a fumbe at the anniversary show because they know AEW fans wont care, because its AEW.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Once again, the guy that supposedly works in TV was clearly spot on about his television predictions...


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> No spinning that number. Have your biggest TV show of the year full of a *mostly lackluster card following one of your worst shows of the year?* This is what you get. #RebootPlease.


This is such a stupid take.

Stupid because the previous ratings show that the quality of the show have nearly 0 impact on the rating of the show.


----------



## Erik.

fabi1982 said:


> Yeah you care, otherwise you wouldnt look for excuses and trying to find a way. And if I remember correctly you parade around all the time they do „good“ ratings.
> 
> And not pointed at you but in general, it is quite funny that the night they did 1m everyone was raving and saying from now on they will do that and maybe end with a 1.2 avg by the end of the year and look what AEW does, produce a fumbe at the anniversary show because they know AEW fans wont care, because its AEW.


What are you blabbering on about?

Praising them for a good number and criticising them for a bad number doesn't equate to caring at all. I do not care if you decide to stop watching AEW because YOU don't enjoy it. Just like I don't care that 73,000 more people decided to watch this week than they did last week, increasing their viewership in the last 7 days. 

I tend to watch Dynamite every week, rarely live however because I don't care enough about wrestling to stay up until 3am in the morning to do so, because I tend to enjoy what I watch. The other million+ people who watch it each week that I have never spoke to or seen before don't affect my viewing habit.

Please tell me what excuses I have thrown out as to why their viewership increased by 73,000 this week?


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> This is such a stupid take.
> 
> Stupid because the previous ratings show that the quality of the show have nearly 0 impact on the rating of the show.


As I mentioned, LAST WEEK'S show was horrible as well. This was heavily advertised as their anniversary show and a huge deal. And they DROPPED in the precious demo for it.

No NBA games, no debates, no major news events, no special NXT show. You do not get to even try and spin this number.


----------



## bdon

25 minutes to one act. TWENTY-FIVE MINUTES!!!


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> As I mentioned, LAST WEEK'S show was horrible as well. This was heavily advertised as their anniversary show and a huge deal. And they DROPPED in the precious demo for it.
> 
> No NBA games, no debates, no major news events, no special NXT show. You do not get to even try and spin this number.


And what i'm saying is that we had show with good to great ratings sometimes without a super card and sometime with a previous episode which was far from good.
Sometime we also had a show with poor rating while the show was good and the previous show was also good.


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> Ah - in that case, I can totally see them keeping just the 4 PPVs then. They sort of get round that with booking towards special Dynamite events like "Bash at the Beach" and "Blood n Guts" etc. - but it does for the most part mean some title matches definitely are rushed along or filler.
> 
> I think 12 is just too much personally.
> 
> January - ?
> March - REVOLUTION
> May - DON
> August - ALL OUT
> October - FULL GEAR
> December - ?
> 
> Would be fine in my opinion. 2 months between events should be more than enough to use their huge roster.
> 
> I do think it's time for them though to move upwards from 4 though.


If they used the TV specials to continue feuds I wouldn't mind 6 PPVs and 6 TV specials. It just feels like typically the TV special is a mini-feud, then they switch to something else for the PPV.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> And what i'm saying is that we had show with good to great ratings sometimes without a super card and sometimes with a previous episode which was far from good.
> Sometime we also had a show with poor rating while the show was good and the previous show was also good.


Yes, fair enough, but this was advertised and "booked" as the cannot miss one year anniversary show.


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> Yes, fair enough, but this was advertised and "booked" as the cannot miss one year anniversary show.


Yes and that's why it's super hard to follow the ratings.

For exemple for 2 weeks a wrestler sees his segments always gaining viewers, demo etc....
The third week the same wrestler see his segment tank completely while his segments was more or less the same than the 2 previous weeks.


----------



## fabi1982

Erik. said:


> What are you blabbering on about?
> 
> Praising them for a good number and criticising them for a bad number doesn't equate to caring at all. I do not care if you decide to stop watching AEW because YOU don't enjoy it. Just like I don't care that 73,000 more people decided to watch this week than they did last week, increasing their viewership in the last 7 days.
> 
> I tend to watch Dynamite every week, rarely live however because I don't care enough about wrestling to stay up until 3am in the morning to do so, because I tend to enjoy what I watch. The other million+ people who watch it each week that I have never spoke to or seen before don't affect my viewing habit.
> 
> Please tell me what excuses I have thrown out as to why their viewership increased by 73,000 this week?


The last bit is funny, how you spin it, but yeah I dont go back the 5 pages you said „all below 900k would be a dissapointment“ but you now go like „hey they increased“ (basically from the week with the debate where everyone on the AEW bandwagon said this is easily 200k people not watching because of that).

But like you, I dont care. I just came for some smark tears and now have to leave with smark delusion, sad me.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> If they used the TV specials to continue feuds I wouldn't mind 6 PPVs and 6 TV specials. It just feels like typically the TV special is a mini-feud, then they switch to something else for the PPV.


Yeah - the TV specials sometimes remind me of that time they did Ambrose/HHH at Roadblock (I think it was called?) in the midst of Ambrose/Lesnar and Reigns/HHH - it was just sort of random, filler when they should just have built more towards Wreslemania instead.

There was a period a few months back where they had THREE TV specials in a row, which just shouldn't be happening.


----------



## Erik.

fabi1982 said:


> The last bit is funny, how you spin it, but yeah I dont go back the 5 pages you said „all below 900k would be a dissapointment“ but you now go like „hey they increased“ (basically from the week with the debate where everyone on the AEW bandwagon said this is easily 200k people not watching because of that).
> 
> But like you, I dont care. I just came for some smark tears and now have to leave with smark delusion, sad me.


It is a disappointment.

Did you miss my post in response to this weeks ratings saying "Up on last week but a disappointing number."

Or are you being obtuse for the sake of it?


----------



## fabi1982

Erik. said:


> It is a disappointment.
> 
> Did you miss my post in response to this weeks ratings saying "Up on last week but a disappointing number."
> 
> Or are you being obtuse for the sake of it?


You see the issue, right? Going from „dissapointment no matter what“, to „dissapointed but hey they did less bad than last week“. Again, dont feed me delusion, I need tears


----------



## Erik.

fabi1982 said:


> You see the issue, right? Going from „dissapointment no matter what“, to „dissapointed but hey they did less bad than last week“. Again, dont feed me delusion, I need tears


You could actually be the stupidest poster in this thread.

And that takes a lot.


----------



## bdon

@fabi1982 these goddamn people won’t admit shit.


----------



## BPG

"special" editions have ended, so it's time to hit the bottom


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> @fabi1982 these goddamn people won’t admit shit.


Yes and he made sure to not hide it. Ending with insults after not being able to defend, thats why Cody has 25min segments each week, because these „fans“ tell him they want 30 the next week.


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> Yeah - the TV specials sometimes remind me of that time they did Ambrose/HHH at Roadblock (I think it was called?) in the midst of Ambrose/Lesnar and Reigns/HHH - it was just sort of random, filler when they should just have built more towards Wreslemania instead.
> 
> There was a period a few months back where they had THREE TV specials in a row, which just shouldn't be happening.


FyterFest and Fight for the Fallen lol. Yeah filler obvious will happen. But it shouldn't feel as predictable on when it's coming.


----------



## Erik.

fabi1982 said:


> Yes and he made sure to not hide it. Ending with insults after not being able to defend, thats why Cody has 25min segments each week, because these „fans“ tell him they want 30 the next week.


Defend what?

You got proved wrong and continued quoting me. Fassy.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Yes and that's why it's super hard to follow the ratings.
> 
> For exemple for 2 weeks a wrestler sees his segments always gaining viewers, demo etc....
> The third week the same wrestler see his segment tank completely while his segments was more or less the same than the 2 previous weeks.


Yes, because people watch it, are offended, and won’t watch it again.


----------



## fabi1982

Erik. said:


> Defend what?
> 
> You got proved wrong and continued quoting me. Fassy.


If you are not able to read, than thats not my issue. And where did you prove me wrong? You said „below 900k is didsapointment“ and then argue with „bbbbbut 73k more than last week“. I know you cant say you were wrong, but stop digging your own hole deeper spasti


----------



## Erik.

fabi1982 said:


> If you are not able to read, than thats not my issue. And where did you prove me wrong? You said „below 900k is didsapointment“ and then argue with „bbbbbut 73k more than last week“. I know you cant say you were wrong, but stop digging your own hole deeper spasti


I said before the show it would be disappointing if they got below 900k.

I said after the ratings were released that it was disappointing. 

Yet I am the one who can't read? Arschloch


----------



## The Wood

So we can all agree that AEW is disappointing?


----------



## fabi1982

Erik. said:


> I said before the show it would be disappointing if they got below 900k.
> 
> I said after the ratings were released that it was disappointing.
> 
> Yet I am the one who can't read? Arschloch


You didnt say it was dissapointing, you said it was dissapointin BUT STILL UP FROM LAST WEEK. Thats trying to quality your statement, but hey I guess @bdon is right, there is no arguing with „you guys“ when you cant be honest with yourself. And nice touch with the Arschloch Süßbär


----------



## The Wood

This company couldn’t grow mould.


----------



## Erik.

fabi1982 said:


> You didnt say it was dissapointing


......



fabi1982 said:


> you said it was dissapointin















fabi1982 said:


> BUT STILL UP FROM LAST WEEK. Thats trying to quality your statement, but hey I guess @bdon is right, there is no arguing with „you guys“ when you cant be honest with yourself. And nice touch with the Arschloch Süßbär


That's stating facts alongside opinion. It WAS up from last week. That's a fact.

_fact
/fakt/
noun
a thing that is known or proved to be true._


But the number was disappointing. Like I said I thought it would be if it went below 900k. The fact I think it's disappointing is an opinion. Especially when the number it got for a show so average was actually pretty good. 

_opinion
/əˈpɪnjən/
noun
a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge._


----------



## The Wood

Obviously you’re not one of those demo people who only counts that, because otherwise it is down. Unless AEW apologists use whatever metric it is they decide looks best that day.


----------



## Klitschko

I'm honestly kind of shocked that it was this low though. I would love to see a break down of what happened.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

0.3 is good

826 is ok, but doesn’t matter

position 15 is a bit eeehhhhhh....

on to next week once again - tournament is going to be interesting


----------



## The Wood

Klitschko said:


> I'm honestly kind of shocked that it was this low though. I would love to see a break down of what happened.


I think I predicted it pretty closely. Last week had the Jericho flop. That was always going to take a toll. It being a big show puts it about middle of the range for AEW.

This week sucked and there’s nothing special next week, but AEW fans are aggressively mobilised, so it’s possible it does better than it deserves to next week. I’ll put it at a little down with the demo being a little up because the new guys got scratched.


----------



## fabi1982

Erik. said:


> ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's stating facts alongside opinion. It WAS up from last week. That's a fact.
> 
> _fact
> /fakt/
> noun
> a thing that is known or proved to be true._
> 
> 
> But the number was disappointing. Like I said I thought it would be if it went below 900k. The fact I think it's disappointing is an opinion. Especially when the number it got for a show so average was actually pretty good.
> 
> _opinion
> /əˈpɪnjən/
> noun
> a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge._


Ok how do we end this? Is a „you were right all alonh“ enough? Or should I bow down?

And nice cutting things out to make your point. And your comments throughout the show didnt make it feel like an average show, but hey maybe thats me again not being able to understand your language.

But again, you were right, as this seems to be the only way you will stop digging youe hole deeper and I dont want you to fall off the flat earth.

I will now go to bed and rubb my furry stick thinking about your greatness of conversation.


----------



## Erik.

fabi1982 said:


> Ok how do we end this? Is a „you were right all alonh“ enough? Or should I bow down?
> 
> And nice cutting things out to make your point. And your comments throughout the show didnt make it feel like an average show, but hey maybe thats me again not being able to understand your language.
> 
> But again, you were right, as this seems to be the only way you will stop digging youe hole deeper and I dont want you to fall off the flat earth.
> 
> I will now go to bed and rubb my furry stick thinking about your greatness of conversation.


----------



## bdon

I know he’s The Demo God and all that shit, but how many people will sit through a Jericho or Cody segment that drags and immediately turn off the TV. “If the two guys taking up 35+ minutes of this show fucking sucked, what is the hook to stay for those not “good enough” for anything more than 10 minutes..?


----------



## rbl85

Klitschko said:


> I'm honestly kind of shocked that it was this low though. I would love to see a break down of what happened.


probably started "low" more or less 900K

People were just no that interested.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> I know he’s The Demo God and all that shit, but how many people will sit through a Jericho or Cody segment that drags and immediately turn off the TV. “If the two guys taking up 35+ minutes of this show fucking sucked, what is the hook to stay for those not “good enough” for anything more than 10 minutes..?


MJF was also with him and actually talked more than Jericho so if you want to "attack" someone "attack" MJF


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> MJF was also with him and actually talked more than Jericho so if you want to "attack" someone "attack" MJF


Jericho’s doing comedy bullshit every goddamn week. That isn’t exactly MJF’s schtick, or well it wasn’t prior to having to work with Chris “I’m bored and really need to get away from wrestling for a while” Jericho.


----------



## omaroo

For a rubbish show they deserve a low rating.

Put shows on like that TK guarantee ratings will keep sinking.

Seems their hardcore base for the moment anyway is 700k-800k


----------



## Pippen94

Decent number with competition. With election & aew's demo this will be about the number going forward.
Nxt not recording for another week


----------



## DammitChrist

bdon said:


> Even when I loved most everything they were doing early on, I still enjoyed having @The Wood around. It’s nice having opposing perspective, not like I hit the ignore button on any *fucking moron* saying that Cody vs Cassidy was great.


Oh, fuck off. 

Cody Rhodes vs Orange Cassidy WAS actually a pretty good match.

Besides, that bold label would be more fitting to describe folks like you who thought it was somehow “bad.”


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, fuck off.
> 
> Cody Rhodes vs Orange Cassidy WAS actually a pretty good match.
> 
> Besides, that bold label would be more fitting to describe folks like you who thought it was somehow “bad.”


It was horrible. How about you stop personally attacking people who disagree with you? The MATCH was horrible. That is different than saying YOU are somehow horrible. Trashidy is one of the sloppiest people in the company. And they pick this skinny geek to go 20 minutes with Cody? TK is living his middle school angles onscreen.


----------



## Kentucky34

This is AEW's ceiling. 

700-800k against NXT.

800K-950k when not up against NXT.


----------



## DammitChrist

bdon said:


> “CoDy RhOdEs’ sTuFf iS aLwAyS bOoKeD lOgIcAlLy!!!”


Fuck off with your anti-Cody Rhodes garbage.



Two Sheds said:


> It was horrible. How about you stop personally attacking people who disagree with you? The MATCH was horrible. That is different than saying YOU are somehow horrible. Trashidy is one of the sloppiest people in the company. And they pick this skinny geek to go 20 minutes with Cody? TK is living his middle school angles onscreen.


Nope, the match between Cody and Cassidy last night was actually pretty good; which isn’t a surprise considering how both men are pretty good in the ring. It was also impressive how they were brilliantly able to work those 20 minutes and time that finish perfectly with 1 second left to spare. 

It’s great to know that there will be a rematch between both men soon 

You’re the same geek who calls fans of Cassidy “fucking neckbeards” because of your pathetic hatred of the guy. You’re the LAST person on here to tell me to quit attacking someone (even though it’s completely justified). 

Anyway, It just makes this even more satisfying to know that he’s continuing to get pushed. Keep seething. 

For the record, I wasn’t even replying to you at all to begin with. Don’t interrupt me. 



> ....*Trashidy*....


Who? :kobe


----------



## Pippen94

Kentucky34 said:


> This is AEW's ceiling.
> 
> 700-800k against NXT.
> 
> 800K-950k when not up against NXT.


Smashed that ceiling when it hit 1 million tho - ha


----------



## RapShepard

I mean ultimately were talking about a show that's consistently in the top 10 most weeks. Give them some slack ratings wise, they're hardly failing. You can't judge them based of wrestling decades half a decade ago, let alone decades+ ago. If they start doing below 500k consistently there's no real need to panic.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Fuck off with your anti-Cody Rhodes garbage.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, the match between Cody and Cassidy last night was actually pretty good; which isn’t a surprise considering how both men are pretty good in the ring. It was also impressive how they were brilliantly able to work those 20 minutes and time that finish perfectly with 1 second left to spare.
> 
> It’s great to know that there will be a rematch between both men soon
> 
> You’re the same geek who calls fans of Cassidy “fucking neckbeards” because of your pathetic hatred of the guy. You’re the LAST person on here to tell me to quit attacking someone (even though it’s completely justified).
> 
> Anyway, It just makes this even more satisfying to know that he’s continuing to get pushed. Keep seething.
> 
> For the record, I wasn’t even replying to you at all to begin with. Don’t interrupt me.
> 
> 
> 
> Who? :kobe


Hey look, more personal attacks.

Trashidy sucks, and more and more people on here are finally admitting it. And plenty of them who like him as a bottom feeding comic relief character are hating him in his current role. Put on a trash show, get a trash rating. Their build up for their one year anniversary show was horrible. If you really cannot even admit that, I dunno what to say. Blinders.

Hope you are satisfied with less and less people watching as they push him more and do more goofy storylines that have zero appeal to casuals or women.

Here is your average Trashidy fan. You see how giving a generalization is different than a personal attack?


----------



## DammitChrist

bdon said:


> 25 minutes to one act. TWENTY-FIVE MINUTES!!!


Good grief, dude. You sound like an angry child.



Erik. said:


> You could actually be the stupidest poster in this thread.
> 
> And that takes a lot.


Hey, you’re not wrong there at all, dude.

Besides, look at that whiny hack making petty, negative generalizations about a group of people who enjoy Cassidy; but yet he has the nerve to cry about someone else getting attacked


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

That's a good number for a regular show... but for the anniversary show that they've been hyping up for weeks? That's bad. Really bad. Honestly, show should have gotten minimum 900k, but 1 million should've been more of a possibility. This number says otherwise.


----------



## imthegame19

Kentucky34 said:


> This is AEW's ceiling.
> 
> 700-800k against NXT.
> 
> 800K-950k when not up against NXT.


They did 920 and 1m in two weeks not up against NXT. Its 750 to 880 range up against NXT and more likely 900 to 1.1m not up against NXT and or strong competition.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1316834774237863937





M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1316835534182977536







---

Arguments are beginning to break out but let me just give my opinion on the topic. With AEW you've had a show that has ranged from average to lackluster for about 6 or 7 months now. Since March I can think of maybe 4-5 shows that have actually been good whilst the rest are average or poor.

The AEW loyalists will argue tooth and nail that this is the right product and the shows are good no matter what but lets be real, it's time to admit the "haters" are right and that this isn't a project that is going to remain attractive throughout the years.

Look at what was on offer at the Anniversary show. Swole, Cassidy, Trent and Kip are independent level talents at best but they're all on there. The big stars all did appear but lets analyse:

Chris Jericho - Angrily agreed to a steak dinner with MJF in a segment that was entirely too long.

Cody Rhodes - Wrestled a 20 minute draw with a guy who should be midcarding independent shows.

Jon Moxley - Won an average match as the anniversary cards main event. We've seen a similar match 4-5 times in the past few months.

Matt Hardy - Cut a really phoned in promo only to be interrupted by Sammy Guevara for rematch number 5 between these guys.

MJF - Looked like a goof talking to himself and was the second part of the cringeworthy steak dinner segment.

Miro - Beginning a feud with a midcard comedy tag team over a broken arcade machine.

The Young Bucks - Got involved in AEW random brawl #277 that nobody cared about.

---

Throw in Darby Allin pretending to be Sting, the Britt Baker/Tony Schiavone makeover segment, Miro's cringeworthy "Game over" line and you don't have a cool product that people are desperate to tune into the following week.

As much as I dislike Brodie Lee he should've been on here even if just cutting a promo. Hangman and Kenny definitely should've been on here and maybe even kicked off their feud in a big way (Kenny upset Hangman is in the tournament announced last week), I would've had Jericho in a competitive match up against someone because this is meant to be a big show and I think I would've even thrown in a few special guests as surprises. Where was Team Taz? 

And what do we have to look forward to in the coming weeks? A predictable four team tag contest next week, Jericho and MJF having a steak dinner and the rematch between Cody and Orange in 2 weeks. Some guys on here are predicting the PPV will have great matches and it probably will but apart from Hangman/Kenny what matches have even been built for that PPV? I've been given no reason to buy the PPV let alone care.

So what does this do to ratings? People will slowly tune out. Don't know if it'll be next week but another 6 months of poor to average shows with the occasional good one will see more and more of the audience driven away. The proof is on this forum alone, former AEW loyalists are now arguing passionately about how bad this product is and how it needs to change.

AEW have been pumping this show for a while and building it weeks in advance. It should've cracked a million and totally creamed NXT instead it did slightly better than last week. If I were Tony and co it'd be panic stations at the AEW office. Unfortunately I think Tony probably feels this is a good enough number and is pleased with it.


----------



## Kentucky34

Chip Chipperson said:


> ---
> 
> Arguments are beginning to break out but let me just give my opinion on the topic. With AEW you've had a show that has ranged from average to lackluster for about 6 or 7 months now. Since March I can think of maybe 4-5 shows that have actually been good whilst the rest are average or poor.
> 
> The AEW loyalists will argue tooth and nail that this is the right product and the shows are good no matter what but lets be real, it's time to admit the "haters" are right and that this isn't a project that is going to remain attractive throughout the years.
> 
> Look at what was on offer at the Anniversary show. Swole, Cassidy, Trent and Kip are independent level talents at best but they're all on there. The big stars all did appear but lets analyse:
> 
> Chris Jericho - Angrily agreed to a steak dinner with MJF in a segment that was entirely too long.
> 
> Cody Rhodes - Wrestled a 20 minute draw with a guy who should be midcarding independent shows.
> 
> Jon Moxley - Won an average match as the anniversary cards main event. We've seen a similar match 4-5 times in the past few months.
> 
> Matt Hardy - Cut a really phoned in promo only to be interrupted by Sammy Guevara for rematch number 5 between these guys.
> 
> MJF - Looked like a goof talking to himself and was the second part of the cringeworthy steak dinner segment.
> 
> Miro - Beginning a feud with a midcard comedy tag team over a broken arcade machine.
> 
> The Young Bucks - Got involved in AEW random brawl #277 that nobody cared about.
> 
> ---
> 
> Throw in Darby Allin pretending to be Sting, the Britt Baker/Tony Schiavone makeover segment, Miro's cringeworthy "Game over" line and you don't have a cool product that people are desperate to tune into the following week.
> 
> As much as I dislike Brodie Lee he should've been on here even if just cutting a promo. Hangman and Kenny definitely should've been on here and maybe even kicked off their feud in a big way (Kenny upset Hangman is in the tournament announced last week), I would've had Jericho in a competitive match up against someone because this is meant to be a big show and I think I would've even thrown in a few special guests as surprises.
> 
> And what do we have to look forward to in the coming weeks? A predictable four team tag contest next week, Jericho and MJF having a steak dinner and the rematch between Cody and Orange in 2 weeks. Some guys on here are predicting the PPV will have great matches and it probably will but apart from Hangman/Kenny what matches have even been built for that PPV? I've been given no reason to buy the PPV let alone care.
> 
> So what does this do to ratings? People will slowly tune out. Don't know if it'll be next week but another 6 months of poor to average shows with the occasional good one will see more and more of the audience driven away. The proof is on this forum alone, former AEW loyalists are now arguing passionately about how bad this product is and how it needs to change.
> 
> AEW have been pumping this show for a while and building it weeks in advance. It should've cracked a million and totally creamed NXT instead it did slightly better than last week. If I were Tony and co it'd be panic stations at the AEW office. Unfortunately I think Tony probably feels this is a good enough number and is pleased with it.


It has to be said that you are the most objective person in this thread.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> ---
> 
> Arguments are beginning to break out but let me just give my opinion on the topic. With AEW you've had a show that has ranged from average to lackluster for about 6 or 7 months now. Since March I can think of maybe 4-5 shows that have actually been good whilst the rest are average or poor.
> 
> The AEW loyalists will argue tooth and nail that this is the right product and the shows are good no matter what but lets be real, it's time to admit the "haters" are right and that this isn't a project that is going to remain attractive throughout the years.
> 
> Look at what was on offer at the Anniversary show. Swole, Cassidy, Trent and Kip are independent level talents at best but they're all on there. The big stars all did appear but lets analyse:
> 
> Chris Jericho - Angrily agreed to a steak dinner with MJF in a segment that was entirely too long.
> 
> Cody Rhodes - Wrestled a 20 minute draw with a guy who should be midcarding independent shows.
> 
> Jon Moxley - Won an average match as the anniversary cards main event. We've seen a similar match 4-5 times in the past few months.
> 
> Matt Hardy - Cut a really phoned in promo only to be interrupted by Sammy Guevara for rematch number 5 between these guys.
> 
> MJF - Looked like a goof talking to himself and was the second part of the cringeworthy steak dinner segment.
> 
> Miro - Beginning a feud with a midcard comedy tag team over a broken arcade machine.
> 
> The Young Bucks - Got involved in AEW random brawl #277 that nobody cared about.
> 
> ---
> 
> Throw in Darby Allin pretending to be Sting, the Britt Baker/Tony Schiavone makeover segment, Miro's cringeworthy "Game over" line and you don't have a cool product that people are desperate to tune into the following week.
> 
> As much as I dislike Brodie Lee he should've been on here even if just cutting a promo. Hangman and Kenny definitely should've been on here and maybe even kicked off their feud in a big way (Kenny upset Hangman is in the tournament announced last week), I would've had Jericho in a competitive match up against someone because this is meant to be a big show and I think I would've even thrown in a few special guests as surprises. Where was Team Taz?
> 
> And what do we have to look forward to in the coming weeks? A predictable four team tag contest next week, Jericho and MJF having a steak dinner and the rematch between Cody and Orange in 2 weeks. Some guys on here are predicting the PPV will have great matches and it probably will but apart from Hangman/Kenny what matches have even been built for that PPV? I've been given no reason to buy the PPV let alone care.
> 
> So what does this do to ratings? People will slowly tune out. Don't know if it'll be next week but another 6 months of poor to average shows with the occasional good one will see more and more of the audience driven away. The proof is on this forum alone, former AEW loyalists are now arguing passionately about how bad this product is and how it needs to change.
> 
> AEW have been pumping this show for a while and building it weeks in advance. It should've cracked a million and totally creamed NXT instead it did slightly better than last week. If I were Tony and co it'd be panic stations at the AEW office. Unfortunately I think Tony probably feels this is a good enough number and is pleased with it.





Kentucky34 said:


> It has to be said that you are the most objective person in this thread.


Well, I was gonna applaud you, @Chip Chipperson , but he beat me to it. I’m sure you pissed off a few loyalists who will call you a hater after that post, but that was as fair and balanced as you can get. 

And it mimics my line of thinking.

How they failed so miserably to capture the moment and understand the importance of the Anniversary show leaves a bad taste in my mouth. They are capable of so much better than they have shown.

That show last night was another mailed-in night, and that, more than even the stupid shit, is what is offensive. If they just didn’t have a clue, that would be annoying, but you could chalk it up to growing pains and learning in the job.

But that isn’t the case. They are capable of really, really intelligent storytelling, but they choose to act like 14-15 year olds with adolescent humor. And it isn’t enough to have one or two comedy acts per show. These motherfuckers’ competitive spirit lies on who can deliver better comedy, not who can have grown men and women wiping their eyes in the stands.

This is just my opinion, but the 5 matches most highly praised did not involve a single bit of comedy. Bucks vs Kenny and Hangman was high level drama teetering playing on real life friendships and history spanning half a decade and multiple continents. Cody vs Dustin was high level drama between blood brothers. Jungle Boy and MJF, with VERY little build, told the story of two young, hungry athletes vying for their position at the adult table on Thanksgiving. Kenny and Pac jockeying for position in the rankings, willing to sacrifice life and limb in a match that HURT to watch.

Why can we not focus more on the above and less on making sure to get Cassidy on TV for a cheap ratings grab. He does get viewers, so why not take my suggestion from months ago and use him to lift up the undercard segments. Stop wasting the loyal viewership he has by placing him opposite the bigger draws who will draw viewers regardless.

This shit seems simple enough. Why do they make it harder on themselves? With the right booking, I absolutely believe they could be at 1.5m RIGHT NOW and stepping to Vince.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Well, I was gonna applaud you, @Chip Chipperson , but he beat me to it. I’m sure you pissed off a few loyalists who will call you a hater after that post, but that was as fair and balanced as you can get.
> 
> And it mimics my line of thinking.
> 
> How they failed so miserably to capture the moment and understand the importance of the Anniversary show leaves a bad taste in my mouth. They are capable of so much better than they have shown.
> 
> That show last night was another mailed-in night, and that, more than even the stupid shit, is what is offensive. If they just didn’t have a clue, that would be annoying, but you could chalk it up to growing pains and learning in the job.
> 
> But that isn’t the case. They are capable of really, really intelligent storytelling, but they choose to act like 14-15 year olds with adolescent humor. And it isn’t enough to have one or two comedy acts per show. These motherfuckers’ competitive spirit lies on who can deliver better comedy, not who can have grown men and women wiping their eyes in the stands.
> 
> This is just my opinion, but the 5 matches most highly praised did not involve a single bit of comedy. Bucks vs Kenny and Hangman was high level drama teetering playing on real life friendships and history spanning half a decade and multiple continents. Cody vs Dustin was high level drama between blood brothers. Jungle Boy and MJF, with VERY little build, told the story of two young, hungry athletes vying for their position at the adult table on Thanksgiving. Kenny and Pac jockeying for position in the rankings, willing to sacrifice life and limb in a match that HURT to watch.
> 
> Why can we not focus more on the above and less on making sure to get Cassidy on TV for a cheap ratings grab. He does get viewers, so why not take my suggestion from months ago and use him to lift up the undercard segments. Stop wasting the loyal viewership he has by placing him opposite the bigger draws who will draw viewers regardless.
> 
> This shit seems simple enough. Why do they make it harder on themselves? With the right booking, I absolutely believe they could be at 1.5m RIGHT NOW and stepping to Vince.


Ratings grab? Cassidy has LOST more viewers than gained overall, despite what the cosplayers would have you believe. I have posted the summer ratings plus precious demos numerous times. He is mediocre at best.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> Well, I was gonna applaud you, @Chip Chipperson , but he beat me to it. I’m sure you pissed off a few loyalists who will call you a hater after that post, but that was as fair and balanced as you can get.
> 
> And it mimics my line of thinking.
> 
> How they failed so miserably to capture the moment and understand the importance of the Anniversary show leaves a bad taste in my mouth. They are capable of so much better than they have shown.
> 
> That show last night was another mailed-in night, and that, more than even the stupid shit, is what is offensive. If they just didn’t have a clue, that would be annoying, but you could chalk it up to growing pains and learning in the job.
> 
> But that isn’t the case. They are capable of really, really intelligent storytelling, but they choose to act like 14-15 year olds with adolescent humor. And it isn’t enough to have one or two comedy acts per show. These motherfuckers’ competitive spirit lies on who can deliver better comedy, not who can have grown men and women wiping their eyes in the stands.
> 
> This is just my opinion, but the 5 matches most highly praised did not involve a single bit of comedy. Bucks vs Kenny and Hangman was high level drama teetering playing on real life friendships and history spanning half a decade and multiple continents. Cody vs Dustin was high level drama between blood brothers. Jungle Boy and MJF, with VERY little build, told the story of two young, hungry athletes vying for their position at the adult table on Thanksgiving. Kenny and Pac jockeying for position in the rankings, willing to sacrifice life and limb in a match that HURT to watch.
> 
> Why can we not focus more on the above and less on making sure to get Cassidy on TV for a cheap ratings grab. He does get viewers, so why not take my suggestion from months ago and use him to lift up the undercard segments. Stop wasting the loyal viewership he has by placing him opposite the bigger draws who will draw viewers regardless.
> 
> This shit seems simple enough. Why do they make it harder on themselves? With the right booking, I absolutely believe they could be at 1.5m RIGHT NOW and stepping to Vince.


I said in the discord yesterday to Hammerstone and Two Sheds that I was genuinely excited for the anniversary show and asked if I was mad. They nicely suggested that I'd be disappointed.

I cannot imagine what the true blue AEW fans felt about it.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> Ratings grab? Cassidy has LOST more viewers than gained overall, despite what the cosplayers would have you believe. I have posted the summer ratings plus precious demos numerous times. He is mediocre at best.


I’m discussing the fact that he is a draw within the niche. I mean, he drew ratings opposite Angelico for crying out loud.

My point isn’t that he is a “draw” in the sense that people are going to pay to see him headlining a show, but he IS an act that can tip the scale for those 250k or so floaters between NXT and Dynamite. Lifting the floor so to speak by merely being in matches and segments opposite other low-to-midcard acts while not insulting the intelligence of the audience by running him opposite your studs. 


Chip Chipperson said:


> I said in the discord yesterday to Hammerstone and Two Sheds that I was genuinely excited for the anniversary show and asked if I was mad. They nicely suggested that I'd be disappointed.
> 
> I cannot imagine what the true blue AEW fans felt about it.


I could tell that you were a little amped for the show when I got off watch yesterday and was eating dinner and catching up in the live thread. When the comment about Brock being at the show was made (a lie obviously) you sounded like a 13-14 year old BDon pissed that WCW would spoil Mankind’s crowning moment. It was clearly visible in your text that any cynical side wasn’t there, and that they had you ready to sing their praises.

I’ve got my brother back into wrestling, even had a few friends over who were lapsed fans, that really enjoyed themselves on a couple episodes a few weeks ago. I’m fucking glad I was stuck on this floating tin can this week. I’d have been embarrassed to have wasted my friends’ time like that.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> I’m discussing the fact that he is a draw within the niche. I mean, he drew ratings opposite Angelico for crying out loud.
> 
> My point isn’t that he is a “draw” in the sense that people are going to pay to see him headlining a show, but he IS an act that can tip the scale for those 250k or so floaters between NXT and Dynamite. Lifting the floor so to speak by merely being in matches and segments opposite other low-to-midcard acts while not insulting the intelligence of the audience by running him opposite your studs.


My mom would draw ratings vs Angelico. NO ONE floating between NXT and AEW is flipping the switch for Trashidy.


----------



## sim8

bdon said:


> The shows had been pretty good from the time he left tv to the time he came back. More short segments, more air time for everyone. The bleach blonde dipshit comes back and eats up 25 minutes a fucking night.


But he needs the time for all the blood and overbooking!


----------



## bdon

sim8 said:


> But he needs the time for all the blood and overbooking!


YOU TELL EM, BD...errr... SIM8!!!


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Tell em' m8


----------



## sim8

bdon said:


> YOU TELL EM, BD...errr... SIM8!!!


I do love Cody but he is such a little shit


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> My mom would draw ratings vs Angelico. NO ONE floating between NXT and AEW is flipping the switch for Trashidy.


Didn’t he do some crazy rating vs Angelico? And surely you’re not suggesting anyone can draw opposite a goddamn member of TH2? Had the ratings high for the night they had a hardcore match against Sabian and Jimmy Havoc. Could your mom draw the ratings high against them as well?

Cassidy is fine if they just leave him in the lower midcard scene. The problem is when they put him anywhere else.

Leave him in the Disco Inferno spot. Give the fans someone they care about enough to stay for the shit matches. He isn’t expected to pop the rating, just prevent it from dropping out like some of the undercard tends to do.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> I’m discussing the fact that he is a draw within the niche. I mean, he drew ratings opposite Angelico for crying out loud.
> 
> My point isn’t that he is a “draw” in the sense that people are going to pay to see him headlining a show, but he IS an act that can tip the scale for those 250k or so floaters between NXT and Dynamite. Lifting the floor so to speak by merely being in matches and segments opposite other low-to-midcard acts while not insulting the intelligence of the audience by running him opposite your studs.
> 
> 
> I could tell that you were a little amped for the show when I got off watch yesterday and was eating dinner and catching up in the live thread. When the comment about Brock being at the show was made (a lie obviously) you sounded like a 13-14 year old BDon pissed that WCW would spoil Mankind’s crowning moment. It was clearly visible in your text that any cynical side wasn’t there, and that they had you ready to sing their praises.
> 
> I’ve got my brother back into wrestling, even had a few friends over who were lapsed fans, that really enjoyed themselves on a couple episodes a few weeks ago. I’m fucking glad I was stuck on this floating tin can this week. I’d have been embarrassed to have wasted my friends’ time like that.


My last straw of hope is that this is really all not planned and that they hold the actual angles off until the pandemic is over. But on the other side, I dont see any arenas being filled until mid next year and I honestly am worried how much they can fall in 8 month. When you think about blood and guts, Elite/IC (ok you cant do this anymore, after IC is a joke in itself), Hangman/Omega, a Miro being used properly..damn I really hope they can re-start this and it is not too late...


----------



## Not Lying

Kentucky34 said:


> This is AEW's ceiling.
> 
> 700-800k against NXT.
> 
> 800K-950k when not up against NXT.


Your (fake) love Gargano is drawing shit then.


----------



## sideon

RapShepard said:


> I mean ultimately were talking about a show that's consistently in the top 10 most weeks. *Give them some slack ratings wise*, they're hardly failing. You can't judge them based of wrestling decades half a decade ago, let alone decades+ ago. If they start doing below 500k consistently there's no real need to panic.


No, This isn't the 90s where you had to rely on word of mouth. We live in an era where people know about shows within minutes, and the reality is that they haven't delivered on their promise to be a real alternative to the WWE. After one year they have failed to grow their audience.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

sideon said:


> After one year they have failed to grow their audience.


Forget that, after a year they've lost almost half of their audience. 1.4 million to 800,000.


----------



## fabi1982

Chip Chipperson said:


> Forget that, after a year they've lost almost half of their audience. 1.4 million to 800,000.


Even with not being sarcastic and take away the first two shows, they went from way in the 900k to 800k. But you know, some will say "they grew compared to the start of the pandemic", the same people who will trash your comment.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Forget that, after a year they've lost almost half of their audience. 1.4 million to 800,000.


By week 5 audience had already dropped to 750k!
Still picked up for 4 years after that as well


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> By week 5 audience had already dropped to 750k!
> Still picked up for 4 years after that as well


AEW hasn't been on the air for 4 years, Pips...


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW hasn't been on the air for 4 years, Pips...


Ur a sharp one


----------



## Kentucky34

The Definition of Technician said:


> Your (fake) love Gargano is drawing shit then.


He is not the FOTC. 

So your comment is irrelevant.


----------



## Not Lying

Kentucky34 said:


> He is not the FOTC.
> 
> So your comment is irrelevant.


Yeah because you can only "draw" if your FOTC xD 

Your entire gimmick is irrelevant.


----------



## Kentucky34

The Definition of Technician said:


> Yeah because you can only "draw" if your FOTC xD
> 
> Your entire gimmick is irrelevant.


Stop being salty. 

Gargano hasn't received enough of a push in NXT to be a draw. 

NXT is WWE's 3rd biggest show as well. It is actually impressive that they almost match the numbers that AEW are doing.


----------



## Not Lying

Kentucky34 said:


> Stop being salty.
> 
> Gargano hasn't received enough of a push in NXT to be a draw.
> 
> NXT is WWE's 3rd biggest show as well. It is actually impressive that they almost match the numbers that AEW are doing.


Yeah being a triple crown champion and the guy who competed as most Takeovers.. what a nobody Gargano is xD 

They don't "almost" anything there's a 15-25% difference in viewership.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Didn’t he do some crazy rating vs Angelico? And surely you’re not suggesting anyone can draw opposite a goddamn member of TH2? Had the ratings high for the night they had a hardcore match against Sabian and Jimmy Havoc. Could your mom draw the ratings high against them as well?
> 
> Cassidy is fine if they just leave him in the lower midcard scene. The problem is when they put him anywhere else.
> 
> Leave him in the Disco Inferno spot. Give the fans someone they care about enough to stay for the shit matches. He isn’t expected to pop the rating, just prevent it from dropping out like some of the undercard tends to do.


I guess my main problem is why many people feel AEW NEEDS a midcard goofy act. It is SO WWE. I thought they were going to try doing something different here. Why does AEW feel the need to clone Santino and Hornswoggle? When is their first dancing gimmick going to debut? Maybe Miro can dance to some arcade music? Maybe Kenny can discover his love of pancakes and start throwing them out? They already have oil dude, a slob that dresses like Pippy Longstocking, and a small child. This is pure alternative WWE.


----------



## Kentucky34

The Definition of Technician said:


> Yeah being a triple crown champion and the guy who competed as most Takeovers.. what a nobody Gargano is xD
> 
> They don't "almost" anything there's a 15-25% difference in viewership.


He's never been pushed as the face of the brand though.


----------



## Kentucky34

Chip Chipperson said:


> Forget that, after a year they've lost almost half of their audience. 1.4 million to 800,000.


That is damming. 

They seem to be throwing things against the wall to see what will stick. But nothing is really working for them. I think they will keep drawing around 800k for another 6 months or so before the rot really sets in. 

It is a shame because I had high hopes for them when they first started.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Cody and Orange drawing the highest of the night

lolololololol to the haters of both 🖕


----------



## 3venflow

Pretty sure the majority of TV shows have drop-offs after their pilots. It's about keeping a stable audience so the network is happy - and TNT are very happy, weren't they expecting 500k? Their bosses are sanctioning a second show on one of the Warner networks, which is telling.

The challenge is to do something that will create a permanent upsurge. Nitro rose by a full point after the nWo appeared, doing ratings of 3.3 plus after dropping as low as 1.9 a few months before.

Dynamite is doing better now than it was from March to July 2020, it's demo is also very consistent. The company, in TV terms, is successful.

If they want to go to the next level though, they obviously have to come up with something different. Which is very hard with how the industry is today, there's just not going to be another nWo.

They should try and get Dwayne to do some appearances, he watches the show and Jericho would lie down for him.


----------



## Kentucky34

The Rock is yesterday's news in wrestling. 

AEW need something or someone new but I don't see them finding it. 

WWE have the biggest names in the industry like Reigns, Rollins and Bryan under contract, and AEW's roster is full of good but not great talent. 

They are essentially TNA. They will give us more weekly wrestling on TV and draw around 800k viewers each week. But they will never be a serious rival to WWE or break the mainstream.


----------



## 3venflow

Kentucky34 said:


> The Rock is yesterday's news in wrestling.


In what way? He's never going to do more than a few appearances sure, but you can't tell me him in AEW wouldn't get the company HUGE attention? It'd be his first time ever wrestling for another company.

The guy is arguably the biggest movie star in the world or one of them at least.

14.9m Twitter followers. 200m(!!!) Instagram followers. If you get even a portion of them to watch a show he's on and get hooked on whatever else is on offer, then it's worth it.

However, I've always doubted he'd work for anyone out of respect for Vince. I don't know if his admiration for AEW changes that. But if there was a chance they could get him for a few matches, you do it.

Put him against Jericho and you'd have people talking, even if the match would probably suck.



> AEW need something or someone new but I don't see them finding it.


No, probably not. What they have right now though, is sustainability. As far as we know, they were making money as recently as April and are not losing money (or much of it) right now. The company is stable and secure for the immediate future. There's a five-year deal with TNT... and so there's no urgency to bump the ratings since TNT is very happy. A second show is coming. On the other hand, they have to be ambitious and _try _to become bigger and better.

Some of the ideas, like shows on a cruise ship, have been good. They should look at Lucha Underground and steal some ideas from that since it's dead now.



> They are essentially TNA. They will give us more weekly wrestling on TV and draw around 800k viewers each week. But they will never be a serious rival to WWE or break the mainstream.


They said they do not intend to rival WWE. Which may be part bluff, but you're never going to become competition for a decades-old promotion with a footprint across the world that fast. What they have done is cemented their own fan base and they actually beat RAW in the 18-34 demo for a show in August. WF loves to play down AEW's achievements, but no one can deny that is impressive.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> I guess my main problem is why many people feel AEW NEEDS a midcard goofy act. It is SO WWE. I thought they were going to try doing something different here. Why does AEW feel the need to clone Santino and Hornswoggle? When is their first dancing gimmick going to debut? Maybe Miro can dance to some arcade music? Maybe Kenny can discover his love of pancakes and start throwing them out? They already have oil dude, a slob that dresses like Pippy Longstocking, and a small child. This is pure alternative WWE.


So, one comedy act means they all should be comedy? How is that got anything to do with what I suggested? If you want to cry about the comedy overkill, then we can have that discussion and agree. Acting like there is absolutely no place for a low card comedy act is bullshit, especially one that would be a draw _relative to his position on the card_. Don’t feature him in high profile segments, let him serve his purpose as comedic relief for a couple minutes, and be done with it for the night.

And I don’t even fucking care about Cassidy, but you’re just flat out wrong when it comes to a comedy act having no place on the card. Disco Inferno existed, 3 Count/Hurricane Helms existed, Scotty 2 Hotty existed.

He isn’t going anywhere, but you can still use him in a way that works for the company.


----------



## rbl85

Cody vs OC was the highest rated segment of the last show.

It gained 155K viewers and did 920K


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> Cody vs OC was the highest rated segment of the last show.
> 
> It gained 155K viewers and did 920K


Then clearly they should work a 60-minute Iron Man. That’s what the numbers say!!! He’s a draw! MORE CASSIDY AND MORE CODY!!! MORE, MORE, MORE!!!


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> Then clearly they should work a 60-minute Iron Man. That’s what the numbers say!!!


Don't exaggerate but it shows that you can't attack Khan for booking him that much and the same goes for Cody.

Because this match did really good because it was OC vs Cody.


----------



## Kentucky34

rbl85 said:


> Cody vs OC was the highest rated segment of the last show.
> 
> It gained 155K viewers and did 920K


Yeah but its appealing to a niche audience. 

You can't grow an audience with Orange Cassidy.


----------



## rbl85

Kentucky34 said:


> Yeah but its appealing to a niche audience.
> 
> You can't grow an audience with Orange Cassidy.


Well then everybody else on the show is appealing to a niche audience because they did less than him.


----------



## DammitChrist

rbl85 said:


> Cody vs OC was the highest rated segment of the last show.
> 
> It gained 155K viewers and did 920K


That’s weird.

I could’ve sworn that “nobody” cared about Orange Cassidy, and that Cody Rhodes wrestling a pretty good match for 20 minutes was “completely unjustifiable”. 

I guess the ‘haters’/critics were wrong (yet again) then.

To be fair, it’s not like they are ever right to begin with too


----------



## rbl85

What happened before the match because if they gained 155k viewers with this match then that means the segments before did bad.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

DammitChrist said:


> That’s weird.
> 
> I could’ve sworn that “nobody” cared about Orange Cassidy, and that Cody Rhodes wrestling a pretty good match for 20 minutes was “completely unjustifiable”.
> 
> I guess the ‘haters’/critics were wrong (yet again) then.
> 
> To be fair, it’s not like they are ever right to begin with too


OC = DRAW


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> Well then everybody else on the show is appealing to a niche audience because they did less than him.


Those inclined to enjoy serious wrestling aren’t watching, because they give Cassidy 25 goddamn minutes.

And how many people watched that entire 25 minutes expecting some sort of payoff of a Cody heel turn or a Brodie post match beatdown, saw nothing happen, and said to themselves, “If this stupid shit getting 25 (!!!) minutes is the highlight of the show, then I don’t need to stick around for anything that is possibly worse”?


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> So, one comedy act means they all should be comedy? How is that got anything to do with what I suggested? If you want to cry about the comedy overkill, then we can have that discussion and agree. Acting like there is absolutely no place for a low card comedy act is bullshit, especially one that would be a draw _relative to his position on the card_. Don’t feature him in high profile segments, let him serve his purpose as comedic relief for a couple minutes, and be done with it for the night.
> 
> And I don’t even fucking care about Cassidy, but you’re just flat out wrong when it comes to a comedy act having no place on the card. Disco Inferno existed, 3 Count/Hurricane Helms existed, Scotty 2 Hotty existed.
> 
> He isn’t going anywhere, but you can still use him in a way that works for the company.


I never said anything about not having a comedy act. I put that in a different bucket than intelligence insulting goofs though. Make sense? If i worded things poorly, I apologize.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> OC = DRAW


Give him an hour each week then. Fuck it. Use and abuse his ability to draw. Stop wasting your time on non-draws and just make the show all Cody, Jericho, Mox, and OC. 30 minutes a piece.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> *Those inclined to enjoy serious wrestling aren’t watching, because they give Cassidy 25 goddamn minutes.*
> 
> And how many people watched that entire 25 minutes expecting some sort of payoff of a Cody heel turn or a Brodie post match beatdown, saw nothing happen, and said to themselves, “If this stupid shit getting 25 (!!!) minutes is the highlight of the show, then I don’t need to stick around for anything that is possibly worse”?


Because we knew that this match was going to last 25min....


----------



## El Hammerstone

Kentucky34 said:


> Yeah but its appealing to a niche audience.
> 
> You can't grow an audience with Orange Cassidy.


Yup, you chase away those who want a serious product (multiple testimonies on countless sites), and you'll be left with mostly fans who are into this kind of thing.


----------



## rbl85

El Hammerstone said:


> Yup, you chase away those who want a serious product (multiple testimonies on countless sites), and you'll be left with mostly fans who are into this kind of thing.


Yeah because the match against Cody wasn't serious at all....

I don't like to call someone a hater but it's pretty damn close here.


----------



## La Parka

rbl85 said:


> Well then everybody else on the show is appealing to a niche audience because they did less than him.


Well yeah... 

Best friends? niche

Shitty old man Jericho comedy? niche

Rusev the gamer fighting a jobber? niche. His cuckhold angle did better ratings. 

Big Swole? not even at niche level. 

A tag team raffle? niche

A rushed main event? potential to be interesting but it was yet another fight around the arena that everyone has already seen from Mox before. 

920K is hardly anything to celebrate. If people (not a whole lot of them) are tuning into your "wrestling" program to watch a guy fuck around with his hands in his pockets, your show has a serious issue.


----------



## imthegame19

880k / 378k (Best Friends vs FTR)
Q2: 804k / 367k (end of tag/Miro tag/Archer+Mox brawl)
Q3: 876k / 400k (MJF/Jericho and Britt spa segment)
Q4: 765k / 377k (intro and start of Cody/OC)
Q5: 920k / 453k (Cody/OC and Matt interview)
Q6: 761k / 369k (tag angle and start to Shida/Swole)
Q7: 781k / 340k (Shida vs Swole)
Q8: 825k / 378k (Archer vs Mox)


----------



## El Hammerstone

rbl85 said:


> Yeah because the match against Cody wasn't serious at all....
> 
> I don't like to call someone a hater but it's pretty damn close here.


Not caring spot? Check. Cody stumbling around trying to get OC to do a simple lockup? Check. Hands in Pockets? Check. Playful shin kicks? Check. 

You can call me whatever you want; your words hold zero value to me.


----------



## .christopher.

Wow.

Comparing Pockets to Scotty 2 Hotty. Claiming a Pockets match was "serious".

AEW fans continue to sink lower and lower.


----------



## rbl85

El Hammerstone said:


> Not caring spot? Check. Cody stumbling around trying to get OC to do a simple lockup? Check. Hands in Pockets? Check. Playful shin kicks? Check.
> 
> You can call me whatever you want; your words hold zero value to me.


Out the 20+min of match what you complaining about equal to what 1min,2min of the match ?


----------



## .christopher.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Cody and Orange drawing the highest of the night
> 
> lolololololol to the haters of both 🖕


Being proud of said rating is reflective of the sad state wrestling is in. With acts like that it will only get worse, too.


----------



## .christopher.

rbl85 said:


> Out the 20+min of match what you complaining about equal to what 1min,2min of the match ?


Damn... AEW fans really do not get wrestling.


----------



## imthegame19

La Parka said:


> Well yeah...
> 
> Best friends? niche
> 
> Shitty old man Jericho comedy? niche
> 
> Rusev the gamer fighting a jobber? niche. His cuckhold angle did better ratings.
> 
> Big Swole? not even at niche level.
> 
> A tag team raffle? niche
> 
> A rushed main event? potential to be interesting but it was yet another fight around the arena that everyone has already seen from Mox before.
> 
> 920K is hardly anything to celebrate. If people (not a whole lot of them) are tuning into your "wrestling" program to watch a guy fuck around with his hands in his pockets, your show has a serious issue.



Quick question. You know TNT a major cable network. What is TNT top rated show? Hmm lol. Yeah that ends this discussion. Let me help you understand something. In 2020, not 1985 or 1995 or 2005 or even 2015. Well near million(over million after 7+plus dvr) people watching cable show isn't "niche". Especially if it's the audience that advertisers target. Heck if you can double that near million people audience. 


Guess what network value you that so much they will pay you 260 million a year for your programming like WWE. So please instead of posting on here with nonsense. Do your homework and understand that if AEW niche audience then majority of cable tv viewers who aren't watching news shows is niche viewers. Comments like this sound like they come from old out of touch Cornette who doesn't have a clue about what's good or bad or niche rating in 2020 lol. Be smarter then that old fool. Thanks!


----------



## DammitChrist

We’re just going to ignore how Cassidy spent the rest of those 18 minutes pushing Cody to the limit to the point where he had him beat with 1 second left to spare? 🤣

Hell, he spiked Cody with an Air Raid-like Crash on the apron late into the match showing how serious he was and how much he really wanted to become the TNT Champion.


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> Damn... *AEW critics* really do not get wrestling.


I fixed that for you. It’s much more accurate tbh.


----------



## rbl85

.christopher. said:


> Damn... AEW fans really do not get wrestling.


It's not because peoples like something you don't that they don't get wrestling.

Who do you think you are to make that statement ?


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> Because we knew that this match was going to last 25min....


He went 15 minutes with Brodie Lee. He’s wrestled 3 goddamn times with Jericho.

Comedy. Act.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> He went 15 minutes with Brodie Lee. He’s wrestled 3 goddamn times with Jericho.
> 
> Comedy. Act.


You still didn't know that this match was going to last that long.

Stop making excuses ( and bad ones)


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

.christopher. said:


> Being proud of said rating is reflective of the sad state wrestling is in. With acts like that it will only get worse, too.


But it’s drawing....so it’ll get more popular. isn’t this what the end goal is?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Confirmed - the moaners are the minority.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> Confirmed - the moaners are the minority.


We’re a part of 7.5+ billion people who refuse to think Orange Cassidy is cool.

You’re one of less than a million. Minority my ass.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> *We’re a part of 7.5+ billion people who refuse to think Orange Cassidy is coo*l.
> 
> You’re one of less than a million. Minority my ass.


Your ankles are ok ?


----------



## bdon

Put him in an hour long iron man match!!! RATINGSSSSSS


----------



## bdon

He’s a draw. Put him on TV for an hour. The show will be sooooo fucking cooooool. Draw!!!


----------



## rbl85

You're having a tantrum ?


----------



## DammitChrist

bdon said:


> Put him in an hour long iron match!!! RATINGSSSSSS


Hey, if it means that you hilariously get worked up to the point where you sound like you’re about to pop a blood vessel over WRESTLING; then they can go for a 2-hour long Iron Man match for all I care.

Besides, it’s not like that’ll happen anyway.


----------



## bdon

You want to spew ratings as proof of why Cassidy belongs in high profile spots, so I’m agreeing with with you. Go All-In! 60 MINUTE IRON MAN MATCH, BABY!! RATINGSSSS!!!


----------



## bdon

He’s outdrawing everyone else. Face of the Company. 60 minutes. Backstage segments. Make it happen.


----------



## Pippen94

Armchair critics calling for most popular part of show to be depushed - this is why your here & tony Khan is where he is


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> Armchair critics calling for most popular part of show to be depushed - this is why your here & tony Khan is where he is


Yes. Where he spent a $100+ million dollars at a time when WWE and Vince are begging for someone to Nitro their asses, and Khan is lucky to draw HALF of what Raw does.


----------



## rbl85

If fans only like things that are dead serious then why FTR is doing so poorly ?


----------



## bdon

Don’t know, don’t care.

Give the man his 60 minute Iron Man match, backstage segments showing him doing cool stuff like standing up while sleeping (oh boy, that would be so funny!!!)

He’s THE draw. Face of the Company. Strap the entire show to his back. We’ll show Vince.


----------



## La Parka

imthegame19 said:


> Quick question. You know TNT a major cable network. What is TNT top rated show? Hmm lol. Yeah that ends this discussion. Let me help you understand something. In 2020, not 1985 or 1995 or 2005 or even 2015. Well near million(over million after 7+plus dvr) people watching cable show isn't "niche". Especially if it's the audience that advertisers target. Heck if you can double that near million people audience.
> 
> 
> Guess what network value you that so much they will pay you 260 million a year for your programming like WWE. So please instead of posting on here with nonsense. Do your homework and understand that if AEW niche audience then majority of cable tv viewers who aren't watching news shows is niche viewers. Comments like this sound like they come from old out of touch Cornette who doesn't have a clue about what's good or bad or niche rating in 2020 lol. Be smarter then that old fool. Thanks!


Unless Orange Cassidy was appearing on one of the many NBA games that TNT runs, I'm not sure how that ends this discussion. Perhaps he was on snowpiercer because thats another show that gets better ratings than AEW does. 

It is niche considering there's very little other means to watch AEW in a high quality environment outside of the cable program. Snowpiercer on the other hand is available on netflix. Just like most television shows that AEW is competing with. Not so much for AEW. If you don't watch it on TV, you either watch a shitty stream or you're out of luck. 

AEW's most hyped television show since its debut barely outdrew a Tyler Perry television show on BET. This is not a main stream television show anymore than TNA was when it was around.


----------



## Pippen94

rbl85 said:


> If fans only like things that are dead serious then why FTR is doing so poorly ?


 I like their gimmick & think 20 minute challenge can lead to interesting booking. With Bucks somewhere between face & heel they really don't have hot rival yet


----------



## fabi1982

Two Sheds said:


> I guess my main problem is why many people feel AEW NEEDS a midcard goofy act. It is SO WWE. I thought they were going to try doing something different here. Why does AEW feel the need to clone Santino and Hornswoggle? When is their first dancing gimmick going to debut? Maybe Miro can dance to some arcade music? Maybe Kenny can discover his love of pancakes and start throwing them out? They already have oil dude, a slob that dresses like Pippy Longstocking, and a small child. This is pure alternative WWE.


This 100%, you start telling everyone to be different just to fucking not be different. I think this is what makes most of „us haters“ feel the way we feel.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> Cody vs OC was the highest rated segment of the last show.
> 
> It gained 155K viewers and did 920K


And again as in the other thread I got no answer to my actual question, how does this work, do the kids sit infront of Twitter and wait until the OC tweet is made and then switch the channel? Or do 150k people go through the channes and come across TNT and then see OC and just stay? When it takes 5mins of watching to be counted as a viewer (or 10k viewers) what makes you think that if the viewership doesnt stay or even grow for the next Q that most of the people stopped watching after 5mins?


----------



## sim8

Just to add fuel to the fire, look what Cody posted


----------



## bdon

sim8 said:


> Just to add fuel to the fire, look what Cody posted
> View attachment 92039


Proof is in the pudding! 

60 minute Iron Man Match. Make it happen. Let’s grow this company!!!


----------



## sim8

bdon said:


> Proof is in the pudding!
> 
> 60 minute Iron Man Match. Make it happen. Let’s grow this company!!!


I genuinely believe we are getting Darby vs OC vs Cody at Full Gear for the belt. Otherwise this whole OC vs Cody is fucking stupid.


----------



## bdon

sim8 said:


> I genuinely believe we are getting Darby vs OC vs Cody at Full Gear for the belt. Otherwise this whole OC vs Cody is fucking stupid.


No man. This is fucking genius level booking. Look at the ratingssss! Orange Cassidy needs to just stay the ever fighting underdog, working 60-minute classics like Omega and Okada.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## sim8

bdon said:


> No man. This is fucking genius level booking. Look at the ratingssss! Orange Cassidy needs to just stay the ever fighting underdog, working 60-minute classics like Omega and Okada.


Fuck sake haha 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


----------



## bdon

sim8 said:


> Fuck sake haha 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


I’m starting to learn how this wrestling thing works, bro.


----------



## sim8

bdon said:


> I’m starting to learn how this wrestling thing works, bro.


You're just angry Cody is making a star out of OC because he's such a selfless wrestler


----------



## bdon

sim8 said:


> You're just angry Cody is making a star out of OC because he's such a selfless wrestler


Don’t even...


----------



## sim8

bdon said:


> Don’t even...


LOL It's true. It's damn true.


----------



## bdon

sim8 said:


> LOL It's true. It's damn true.


Not at all.

It is upsetting, because how is anyone else to get over if Cody is eating 25 minutes of time? How is anyone to stand out if he gets to be both heel and face? It’s the same reason you don’t want your hosses working a high-flying style: it gives the little guy no particular way to stand out from the crowd.

Those applauding this rating need to own up: 60 minute matches galore for Cassidy, 30 minutes for Cody, 20 minutes for Jericho, and 10 minutes for Moxley. Apparently that is the winning formula for ratings successes. Ask them. The numbers will tell us that. MORE MORE MORE!!!!


----------



## sim8

bdon said:


> Not at all.
> 
> It is upsetting, because how is anyone else to get over if Cody is eating 25 minutes of time? How is anyone to stand out if he gets to be both heel and face? It’s the same reason you don’t want your hosses working a high-flying style: it gives the little guy no particular way to stand out from the crowd.
> 
> Those applauding this rating need to own up: 60 minute matches galore for Cassidy, 30 minutes for Cody, 20 minutes for Jericho, and 10 minutes for Moxley. Apparently that is the winning formula for ratings successes. Ask them. The numbers will tell us that. MORE MORE MORE!!!!


I just love reading you attack Cody to be honest. I would say anything to piss you off to get another rant on Cody  

In all honesty, I do agree with quite a bit you say with Cody. But at the same time, I am a fan. I've been a fan of his since 2010 when Rey Mysterio broke his nose and Cody was broken. I saw potential in him and from that day on, I have followed him wherever he went. He holds a special place in my wrestling fandom but he is a little shit. It used to be charming at one point but now it is slightly grating sometimes.


----------



## bdon

More than anything, I don’t understand why the loyalists keep defending Cassidy in these high profile matches, feuds, and segments. If he IS a draw, then why not use him to lift up lesser characters in less meaningful segments?

Since he’s a draw, lets have him work some 60 minute bangers with Kip Sabian to help legitimize Sabian. Better yet!!! Let’s do 60 minute Best 2 out of 3 vs John Silver! It’ll be so cooooool.


----------



## sim8

bdon said:


> More than anything, I don’t understand why the loyalists keep defending Cassidy in these high profile matches, feuds, and segments. If he IS a draw, then why not use him to lift up lesser characters in less meaningful segments?
> 
> Since he’s a draw, lets have him work some 60 minute bangers with Kip Sabian to help legitimize Sabian. Better yet!!! Let’s do 60 minute Best 2 out of 3 vs John Silver! It’ll be so cooooool.


He's going the Cody way of only doing shit that get him over.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Hello friends, Chipperson here to educate on the Cody Vs OC situation.

Want to know why it gained so much? As someone else pointed out the audience isn't waiting for Orange to be announced on Twitter the reason is quite simple.

It was at the top of the hour when people generally channel surf. Ratings are generally high during those times which is why AEW instantly kicks off with action every week.



3venflow said:


> In what way? He's never going to do more than a few appearances sure, but you can't tell me him in AEW wouldn't get the company HUGE attention? It'd be his first time ever wrestling for another company.
> 
> The guy is arguably the biggest movie star in the world or one of them at least.
> 
> 14.9m Twitter followers. 200m(!!!) Instagram followers. If you get even a portion of them to watch a show he's on and get hooked on whatever else is on offer, then it's worth it.
> 
> However, I've always doubted he'd work for anyone out of respect for Vince. I don't know if his admiration for AEW changes that. But if there was a chance they could get him for a few matches, you do it.
> 
> Put him against Jericho and you'd have people talking, even if the match would probably suck.
> 
> 
> 
> No, probably not. What they have right now though, is sustainability. As far as we know, they were making money as recently as April and are not losing money (or much of it) right now. The company is stable and secure for the immediate future. There's a five-year deal with TNT... and so there's no urgency to bump the ratings since TNT is very happy. A second show is coming. On the other hand, they have to be ambitious and _try _to become bigger and better.
> 
> Some of the ideas, like shows on a cruise ship, have been good. They should look at Lucha Underground and steal some ideas from that since it's dead now.
> 
> 
> 
> They said they do not intend to rival WWE. Which may be part bluff, but you're never going to become competition for a decades-old promotion with a footprint across the world that fast. What they have done is cemented their own fan base and they actually beat RAW in the 18-34 demo for a show in August. WF loves to play down AEW's achievements, but no one can deny that is impressive.


Okay,

First, I doubt Rock admires AEW he's being nice when directly asked about them. Guarantee he doesn't even watch anymore that's if he did at all ever

Second, hypothetically let's say they got Rock. Their show is so awful that it'd make old wrestling fans think wrestling sucks

Look at what happened with Mike Tyson. Yeah it got great numbers on YouTube but plenty of people were saying they used to like wrestling but it looks shitty now 



DammitChrist said:


> That’s weird.
> 
> I could’ve sworn that “nobody” cared about Orange Cassidy, and that Cody Rhodes wrestling a pretty good match for 20 minutes was “completely unjustifiable”.
> 
> I guess the ‘haters’/critics were wrong (yet again) then.
> 
> To be fair, it’s not like they are ever right to begin with too


Ick. The arrogance.



DammitChrist said:


> We’re just going to ignore how Cassidy spent the rest of those 18 minutes pushing Cody to the limit to the point where he had him beat with 1 second left to spare? 🤣
> 
> Hell, he spiked Cody with an Air Raid-like Crash on the apron late into the match showing how serious he was and how much he really wanted to become the TNT Champion.


What about where he stared into space for a good ten seconds because it wasn't time for his spot yet? What a true professional



optikk sucks said:


> Confirmed - the moaners are the minority.


Wasn't it like 44% of the lapsed wrestling fans saying dumb comedy shit drive them away and stop them from being fans?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

So AEW got a great rating and OC drew? Looks like another week if AEW success! We love to see it.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hello friends, Chipperson here to educate on the Cody Vs OC situation.
> 
> Want to know why it gained so much? As someone else pointed out the audience isn't waiting for Orange to be announced on Twitter the reason is quite simple.
> 
> It was at the top of the hour when people generally channel surf. Ratings are generally high during those times which is why AEW instantly kicks off with action every week.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay,
> 
> First, I doubt Rock admires AEW he's being nice when directly asked about them. Guarantee he doesn't even watch anymore that's if he did at all ever
> 
> Second, hypothetically let's say they got Rock. Their show is so awful that it'd make old wrestling fans think wrestling sucks
> 
> Look at what happened with Mike Tyson. Yeah it got great numbers on YouTube but plenty of people were saying they used to like wrestling but it looks shitty now
> 
> 
> 
> Ick. The arrogance.
> 
> 
> 
> What about where he stared into space for a good ten seconds because it wasn't time for his spot yet? What a true professional
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't it like 44% of the lapsed wrestling fans saying dumb comedy shit drive them away and stop them from being fans?


You got ALOT of nerve calling someone arrogant especially when you post crap like this.


----------



## Kentucky34

The Raw Smackdown said:


> So AEW got a great rating and OC drew? Looks like another week if AEW success! We love to see it.


I'm sorry but their rating this week was not great. 

For the hype the show received it should have drew over 1 million viewers.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Raw Smackdown said:


> You got ALOT of nerve calling someone arrogant especially when you post crap like this.


Haters gon' hate


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Kentucky34 said:


> I'm sorry but their rating this week was not great.
> 
> For the hype the show received it should have drew over 1 million viewers.
> [/QUOTE





Kentucky34 said:


> I'm sorry but their rating this week was not great.
> 
> For the hype the show received it should have drew over 1 million viewers.


----------



## Kentucky34

Let's say Orange Cassidy is AEW's biggest draw. 

What does it say about the rest of the roster when a comedy character is their biggest draw?

Let's say Orange Cassidy only drew more than the rest of the roster because he was booked at the top of the hour.

Well what does that say about AEW's booking team that they booked a comedy wrestler to appear in such an important part of the show. 

Either way, AEW doesn't come out looking good, does it?


----------



## rbl85

Nobody said that OC is the biggest draw or the best thing about AEW

Moxley, Cody, Jericho, The Bucks and Omega are (overall) since the show started bigger draw than him.


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> Nobody said that OC is the biggest draw or the best thing about AEW
> 
> Moxley, Cody, Jericho, The Bucks and Omega are (overall) since the show started bigger draw than him.


Kenny Omega?

They couldn’t even get him on TV for the Anniversary Show.


----------



## sim8

rbl85 said:


> Nobody said that OC is the biggest draw or the best thing about AEW
> 
> Moxley, Cody, Jericho, The Bucks and Omega are (overall) since the show started bigger draw than him.


OC was being called the GOAT in the other thread on this forum. There are definitely fans who exaggerate OC.


----------



## Kentucky34

rbl85 said:


> Nobody said that OC is the biggest draw or the best thing about AEW
> 
> Moxley, Cody, Jericho, The Bucks and Omega are (overall) since the show started bigger draw than him.


None of those guys really draw either.


----------



## Cult03

rbl85 said:


> Out the 20+min of match what you complaining about equal to what 1min,2min of the match ?


Well when it is what starts the match off, it is a problem. Hear me out, instead of saying that we are haters or trolls or having tantrums can you just explain the OC love? Don't use the fact that sometimes he gets ok ratings for AEW, tell me what draws you to him specifically?


----------



## rbl85

sim8 said:


> OC was being called the GOAT in the other thread on this forum. There are definitely fans who exaggerate OC.


They are saying that because they know some people on this forum hate him.


----------



## Cult03

rbl85 said:


> If fans only like things that are dead serious then why FTR is doing so poorly ?


Are FTR acting dead serious though? They're still involved in some pretty goofy shit in AEW. Actually a lot of the Bucks stuff is pretty damn similar to their WWE run


----------



## imthegame19

La Parka said:


> Unless Orange Cassidy was appearing on one of the many NBA games that TNT runs, I'm not sure how that ends this discussion. Perhaps he was on snowpiercer because thats another show that gets better ratings than AEW does.
> 
> It is niche considering there's very little other means to watch AEW in a high quality environment outside of the cable program. Snowpiercer on the other hand is available on netflix. Just like most television shows that AEW is competing with. Not so much for AEW. If you don't watch it on TV, you either watch a shitty stream or you're out of luck.
> 
> AEW's most hyped television show since its debut barely outdrew a Tyler Perry television show on BET. This is not a main stream television show anymore than TNA was when it was around.


Is NBA on now? Or Showpiercer(which AEW does very similar numbers)? Nope so AEW the top show and likely through January. Then it will likely draw very similar numbers to Showpiercer.


First of all AEW gains 200-300 viewers every week in DVR +7. That doesn't count TNT app where they can watch it live or on demand the next day. It's one of the most watched non news in 18 to 49 audience on tv every Wednesday night. TNA never was ranked that high in the ratings or had media press buzz like AEW has.


What kills your argument is you can't call AEW niche audience doing 800 to 900 viewers per week. When they are going head to head with WWE wrestling show. When other top non news cable shows do between 700 and 1.5 million. You bring up Showpiercer as main stream and it did 1.1 and 1.2 million viewers(with weeks in the 900s) with .31 and .34 in 18 to 49 demo for its finale. If something is doing same demo and few 100,000 less. One thing isn't main stream and another isn't niche. TNA 1.6 million viewers vs stuff that was doing 5 to 8 million viewers at the time. Which makes it niche since there's such big difference in viewers. But a show within few hundred thousand viewers of what are considered top rated shows. Well isn't niche product. 


That's why when old timers like Cornette are like same old 1.5 or 1.6 million watching NXT/AEW combined and about 1.7 million viewers are left watching Raw and how sad it is that's all fans wrestling have left. Yet it's not really that sad when MLB playoff championship game did only 2 million viewers last night. Streaming, social media and cord cutting changed cable tv viewership.


So if you are gonna comment on ratings. You need to understand modern ratings not ones from years ago. If anything wrestling more valuable then ever before to tv networks. Which why networks are paying them so much money for their content.


----------



## Cult03

sim8 said:


> Just to add fuel to the fire, look what Cody posted
> View attachment 92039


Genuine question for anyone that wants to answer, when you have the television on another channel watching whatever else you want to watch and you flip over to AEW, are you aware of what is going to be on the channel you're flicking over to? How were these 155k viewers supposed to know what was happening on Dynamite at that time? They could have seen on social media but most of this shit is random. There's far too many flaws in the ratings system to ever take it seriously in my opinion.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

OC rated highly because top of the hour straight up.

Also I don't want Cult's question to go ignored. What draws you guys specifically to Cassidy? I can't imagine a grown man laughing at Orange kicking someone in the shins for the 96th time.



rbl85 said:


> They are saying that because they know some people on this forum hate him.


Ah so they're deliberately trolling then?


----------



## zaz102

Chip Chipperson said:


> OC rated highly because top of the hour straight up.
> 
> Also I don't want Cult's question to go ignored. What draws you guys specifically to Cassidy? I can't imagine a grown man laughing at Orange kicking someone in the shins for the 96th time.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah so they're deliberately trolling then?


I am not the biggest OC fan, but I think he can work well in doses. An example of what I do like is the OC vs Pac match. That match is so entertaining to me to see a serious wrestler and OC was just annoying the hell out of him. And right when Pac, had enough, OC turned on the jets and made it a match.

That being said, for me thats a gimmick that can only go so far before it gets repetitive, but that's definitely a match of his I really enjoyed. 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## fabi1982

Chip Chipperson said:


> Want to know why it gained so much? As someone else pointed out the audience isn't waiting for Orange to be announced on Twitter the reason is quite simple.


But you know, this is something they are not interested in. And even more sad that Cody is bragging with the m-by-m numbers. He always puts himself in Q1, Q4 or Q8. Would love to see OC/Cody perform in Q6. But hey, we close our eyes, believe what our savior says and jump out of the airplane without a parachute


----------



## Kentucky34

Yeah, Cassidy's character has a short shelf life. 

In 18 months time everyone will have turned on him unless he changes his character.


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> But you know, this is something they are not interested in. And even more sad that Cody is bragging with the m-by-m numbers. He always puts himself in *Q1, Q4 or Q8*. Would love to see OC/Cody perform in Q6. But hey, we close our eyes, believe what our savior says and jump out of the airplane without a parachute


Because everybody perform well in those quarters XD


----------



## 304418

imthegame19 said:


> That's why when old timers like Cornette are like same old 1.5 or 1.6 million watching NXT/AEW combined and about 1.7 million viewers are left watching Raw and how sad it is that's all fans wrestling have left. Yet it's not really that sad when MLB playoff championship game did only 2 million viewers last night. Streaming, social media and cord cutting changed cable tv viewership.


Well, maybe if AEW would have viewers sample their show, maybe the viewership and ratings would be much higher? If TNA could get 5.6 million to sample their shows back in 2010, AEW should be able to draw similar numbers if they got viewers to sample theirs, and manage to retain those viewers as well, if they actually learn from TNA’s mistakes.

Another reason that 1.8M fans are all that's left is because wrestling tv isn't done in a way to create tv stars. It done in a way to advertise wrestling stars. You don't really need tv to create stars; PPVs and live events are enough to do that. Tv assists in creating megastars that viewers want to tune in and see.


----------



## imthegame19

Verbatim17 said:


> Well, maybe if AEW would have viewers sample their show, maybe the viewership and ratings would be much higher? If TNA could get 5.6 million to sample their shows back in 2010, AEW should be able to draw similar numbers if they got viewers to sample theirs, and manage to retain those viewers as well, if they actually learn from TNA’s mistakes.
> 
> Another reason that 1.8M fans are all that's left is because wrestling tv isn't done in a way to create tv stars. It done in a way to advertise wrestling stars. You don't really need tv to create stars; PPVs and live events are enough to do that. Tv assists in creating megastars that viewers want to tune in and see.



TNA got 1.6m not 5.6m viewers and it was in different time. Doing a rating then is much tougher to do in 2020. Since so less people are watching cable the traditional way. I get what you are saying about needing to create megastars and that could get wrestling on higher level. But that level would be more 3 million range not 5 or 6 million anymore. Those numbers aren't happening in 2020 with cable ratings the way they are.


Thats my point is most weekly tv cable do between 500,000 to 1.6m viewers. Unless you are a news show or NFL football or NBA or MLB playoffs(which numbers are way down from where they where as well) Which is why AEW does a good rating especially when you consider the demo and why Raw does very good rating still.


So people trying to trash wrestling in 2020 by saying see the product sucks look at how many less people are watching it now. Saying all they have left is small niche audience who likes this crap etc etc. Whoever thinks that is out of touch or lazy because they don't make the effort to look at tv ratings. Lack of viewers isn't wrestling problem it's cable tv problem. Which probably has something to do with still using outdated Nieslen system with how much technology changed t.v. business over the past 10 years. 


When USA is like we can't lose Raw and gives WWE 260 million per year to keep them. When TNT like wow AEW Dynamite is doing 700-900 viewers and .30s demos. Let's give them 175 million to add two years to our existing deal with them. Plus 100 million dollar 5th year network option. Well that tells you the numbers these shows do are good by today's standards. Especially since these networks know and have better data on how many people are really watching these shows each week.


----------



## 3venflow

We're told that AEW is no competition to WWE, so is it not the industry leader's responsibility to get the fans back, some of whom would then also watch/enjoy AEW?










AEW is still a brand new promotion compared to WWE and it could take years to truly find its peak. In any rational mind, AEW has done well by exceeding TNT's expectations and actually making a profit (as of April, not sure what the financials are like now but there are few overheads at Daily's Place).

No, it's not revolutionised the industry, but it has attracted a jaded section of wrestling fans (like me) and created a company that does acceptable TV ratings with impressive demos and good PPV buyrates. Why is this not enough? Why do certain people seem to think AEW has a *responsibility* to have 2 million viewers or something?

It's not their job to make pro wrestling a mainstream phenomenon again, AEW arrived after WWE had ruined pro wrestling's popularity. They are surviving in a cold industry and giving people something else to watch, wrestlers somewhere else to perform and make a living.

AEW could stay as they are now and be a sustainable product for based on the data we have seen (ratings, turnover).


----------



## 304418

imthegame19 said:


> TNA got 1.6m not 5.6m viewers and it was in different time. Doing a rating then is much tougher to do in 2020. Since so less people are watching cable the traditional way. I get what you are saying about needing to create megastars and that could get wrestling on higher level. But that level would be more 3 million range not 5 or 6 million anymore. Those numbers aren't happening in 2020 with cable ratings the way they are.
> 
> 
> Thats my point is most weekly tv cable do between 500,000 to 1.6m viewers. Unless you are a news show or NFL football or NBA or MLB playoffs(which numbers are way down from where they where as well) Which is why AEW does a good rating especially when you consider the demo and why Raw does very good rating still.
> 
> 
> So people trying to trash wrestling in 2020 by saying see the product sucks look at how many less people are watching it now. Saying all they have left is small niche audience who likes this crap etc etc. Whoever thinks that is out of touch or lazy because they don't make the effort to look at tv ratings. Lack of viewers isn't wrestling problem it's cable tv problem. Which probably has something to do with still using outdated Nieslen system with how much technology changed t.v. business over the past 10 years.
> 
> 
> When USA is like we can't lose Raw and gives WWE 260 million per year to keep them. When TNT like wow AEW Dynamite is doing 700-900 viewers and .30s demos. Let's give them 175 million to add two years to our existing deal with them. Plus 100 million dollar 5th year network option. Well that tells you the numbers these shows do are good by today's standards. Especially since these networks know and have better data on how many people are really watching these shows each week.


Or maybe we let Cody and the Bucks – the people that drew 10K in attendance to a non-WWE event on more than one occasion, have drawn 100K in PPV buys on multiple occasions, got the TNT deal and beat a major WWE program every week – figure out how to get 5-6 million to sample AEW and retain a good chunk of viewers in the process. They have already done a phenomenal job at exceeding what TNA was capable of (attendance, PPV buys, tv deal, weekly war with WWE), so why not give them a chance to do this as well? As good as AEW’s numbers are, I’m sure TNT would be happy if they drew over 1M every week while still going head to head with NXT.

Also, USA can’t lose Raw since no one will watch any of their other shows. It will probably be the end of that network if WWE leaves them again.

FOX doesn’t care about losing WWE because they are a part of the big 4 in tv (FOX, NBC, ABC, CBS).



3venflow said:


> We're told that AEW is no competition to WWE, so is it not the industry leader's responsibility to get the fans back, some of whom would then also watch/enjoy AEW?
> 
> View attachment 92099
> 
> 
> AEW is still a brand new promotion compared to WWE and it could take years to truly find its peak. In any rational mind, AEW has done well by exceeding TNT's expectations and actually making a profit (as of April, not sure what the financials are like now but there are few overheads at Daily's Place).
> 
> No, it's not revolutionised the industry, but it has attracted a jaded section of wrestling fans (like me) and created a company that does acceptable TV ratings with impressive demos and good PPV buyrates. Why is this not enough? Why do certain people seem to think AEW has a *responsibility* to have 2 million viewers or something?
> 
> It's not their job to make pro wrestling a mainstream phenomenon again, AEW arrived after WWE had ruined pro wrestling's popularity. They are surviving in a cold industry and giving people something else to watch, wrestlers somewhere else to perform and make a living.
> 
> AEW could stay as they are now and be a sustainable product for based on the data we have seen (ratings, turnover).


Its not AEW's responsibility at all. But I'm sure it's in their best interests to at least outperform what TNA, ROH, LU, & NJPW on AXS were doing when they were on tv, plus the WWE C shows (WWECW, Main Event, NXT etc). Since it shows that AEW has a far more appealing product as a whole for the mainstream what's been on tv in decades.


----------



## imthegame19

Verbatim17 said:


> Or maybe we let Cody and the Bucks – the people that drew 10K in attendance to a non-WWE event on more than one occasion, have drawn 100K in PPV buys on multiple occasions, got the TNT deal and beat a major WWE program every week – figure out how to get 5-6 million to sample AEW and retain a good chunk of viewers in the process. They have already done a phenomenal job at exceeding what TNA was capable of (attendance, PPV buys, tv deal, weekly war with WWE), so why not give them a chance to do this as well? As good as AEW’s numbers are, I’m sure TNT would be happy if they drew over 1M every week while still going head to head with NXT.
> 
> Also, USA can’t lose Raw since no one will watch any of their other shows. It will probably be the end of that network if WWE leaves them again.
> 
> FOX doesn’t care about losing WWE because they are a part of the big 4 in tv (FOX, NBC, ABC, CBS).


You are totally missing the point. Which is 5 to 6 million people aren't watching any cable network. Unless it's NFL or big story news. Even MLB playoffs are 2 million viewers and NBA playoffs did between 2-4 million viewers. 


The cable industry changed only certain amount of people are watching these channels on consistent basis these days no matter what's on. 10 to 20 years you could debut movie on cable for first time and get 2 to 5 million viewers to watch it. Back then it was a lot easier to get viewers then it is today. 


That's why when say Vince Russo brags about his ratings from WWE, WCW or TNA vs now. Its really laughable and shows he's out of touch with the world. In 1999 you could put Titanic on tv and get 3 or 4 million viewers. So when his Nitro numbers where doing those it wasn't that amazing. Today you can't even get 500,000 to watch movies debuting. Now for any show to get even 2 million viewers there has to be big buzz about it. 


So again it's not wrestling its cable tv and lack of people watching traditional cable networks on consistent basis(at least by Nieslen ratings standards). That's why when Raw doing 2 million viewers USA has to pay them 260 million dollars. Since there's extreme value to have show 52 weeks per year that brings in that rating. Same goes with TNT to have a show every Wednesday night bring in 700 to 900 viewers with good demo every week is extremely valuable. Because you can't find people to watch these networks at these levels weekly anymore. Without some type of content that will bring additional viewers.


----------



## La Parka

65


imthegame19 said:


> Is NBA on now? Or Showpiercer(which AEW does very similar numbers)? Nope so AEW the top show and likely through January. Then it will likely draw very similar numbers to Showpiercer.
> 
> 
> First of all AEW gains 200-300 viewers every week in DVR +7. That doesn't count TNT app where they can watch it live or on demand the next day. It's one of the most watched non news in 18 to 49 audience on tv every Wednesday night. TNA never was ranked that high in the ratings or had media press buzz like AEW has.
> 
> 
> What kills your argument is you can't call AEW niche audience doing 800 to 900 viewers per week. When they are going head to head with WWE wrestling show. When other top non news cable shows do between 700 and 1.5 million. You bring up Showpiercer as main stream and it did 1.1 and 1.2 million viewers(with weeks in the 900s) with .31 and .34 in 18 to 49 demo for its finale. If something is doing same demo and few 100,000 less. One thing isn't main stream and another isn't niche. TNA 1.6 million viewers vs stuff that was doing 5 to 8 million viewers at the time. Which makes it niche since there's such big difference in viewers. But a show within few hundred thousand viewers of what are considered top rated shows. Well isn't niche product.
> 
> 
> That's why when old timers like Cornette are like same old 1.5 or 1.6 million watching NXT/AEW combined and about 1.7 million viewers are left watching Raw and how sad it is that's all fans wrestling have left. Yet it's not really that sad when MLB playoff championship game did only 2 million viewers last night. Streaming, social media and cord cutting changed cable tv viewership.
> 
> 
> So if you are gonna comment on ratings. You need to understand modern ratings not ones from years ago. If anything wrestling more valuable then ever before to tv networks. Which why networks are paying them so much money for their content.


AEW draws similar numbers to Snowpiercer? 









‘Snowpiercer’ Season One Finale Delivers Highest Ratings Since Debut


TNT’s Snowpiercer was firing on all cylinders with its two-hour season finale on Sunday night, delivering its highest ratings since its debut in May. The finale of the freshman season of the …




deadline.com





Please tell me when AEW drew close to 3.2 million viewers. Thats a show that many many people also watch on Netflix! Animal Kingdom, Snow Piercer, The Alienist and NBA all regularly do/did much better than AEW. To say AEW is the "top" show on TNT is just a flat out lie. Maybe its a top show on one of the nights to a certain age group but you might as well work for WWE if you view statistical data in such a bias and favorable way to make your point. AEW goes head to head with WWE's third brand. WWE's third brand regularly has done shitty ratings and NXT is no different. 


The TNT app is hardly a popular app like Netflix or many others. You're making excuses for AEW's pathetic ratings and its hilarious. Game of Thrones drew 19.3 million on a station that was a premium cable channel. People aren't only watching news on cable like you incorrectly believe, they're just watching news over AEW and NXT because they're both shitty niche wrestling programs. 
TNA was also niche and it was on a less popular channel and had less advertising. Comparing one niche wrestling company that is now dead to another niche company that may be dead in 10 years is not going to do you many favors. When Hogan signed in TNA it made more headlines than anything AEW has ever did, so thats yet another flat out lie by you. 

I have no idea why you keep bringing up Cornette in all of your posts, but if anyone understood ratings between you and him, it would not be you. Jim has worked in television for many years and would certainty be more qualified to speak on ratings than most.


----------



## imthegame19

La Parka said:


> 65
> 
> 
> AEW draws similar numbers to Snowpiercer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Snowpiercer’ Season One Finale Delivers Highest Ratings Since Debut
> 
> 
> TNT’s Snowpiercer was firing on all cylinders with its two-hour season finale on Sunday night, delivering its highest ratings since its debut in May. The finale of the freshman season of the …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> deadline.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please tell me when AEW drew close to 3.2 million viewers. Thats a show that many many people also watch on Netflix! Animal Kingdom, Snow Piercer, The Alienist and NBA all regularly do/did much better than AEW. To say AEW is the "top" show on TNT is just a flat out lie. Maybe its a top show on one of the nights to a certain age group but you might as well work for WWE if you view statistical data in such a bias and favorable way to make your point. AEW goes head to head with WWE's third brand. WWE's third brand regularly has done shitty ratings and NXT is no different.
> 
> 
> The TNT app is hardly a popular app like Netflix or many others. You're making excuses for AEW's pathetic ratings and its hilarious. Game of Thrones drew 19.3 million on a station that was a premium cable channel. People aren't only watching news on cable like you incorrectly believe, they're just watching news over AEW and NXT because they're both shitty niche wrestling programs.
> TNA was also niche and it was on a less popular channel and had less advertising. Comparing one niche wrestling company that is now dead to another niche company that may be dead in 10 years is not going to do you many favors. When Hogan signed in TNA it made more headlines than anything AEW has ever did, so thats yet another flat out lie by you.
> 
> I have no idea why you keep bringing up Cornette in all of your posts, but if anyone understood ratings between you and him, it would not be you. Jim has worked in television for many years and would certainty be more qualified to speak on ratings than most.







__





UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Sunday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 7.12.2020 | Showbuzz Daily







www.showbuzzdaily.com





Dude you clearly have no clue what you are talking about here. Showpiercer finale had two episode one of them did 1.2 million and the other did 1.1 million viewers. With AEW like .31 and .34 18 to 49 demo. 





__





UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Sunday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 7.26.2020 | Showbuzz Daily







www.showbuzzdaily.com





Alienist debuted at 992 and 903 viewers with .17 and .15 in 18 to 49(Animal Kingdom hasn't been on since AEW debuted). Like I said AEW there most popular show in demos and within few 100,000 in viewers. But hey the reruns are on NETFLIX so that makes them main stream lol. Even though many networks put shows on Netflix. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about and just throwing words around. 


I also was big TNA fan in 2010 and there was no where the hype for that company that their is in entertainment media that there is for AEW. Which was one of big complaints among fans. Who thought they needed to promote and hype the company more. Bischoff has mentioned this on his podcast as well.


As Cornette he hasn't been in tv in years. He doesn't leave his house and has no clue about tv world in 2020. That's why he was saying AEW was going to be cancelled by April. Then month later TNT gave them 175 million for 2 year extension lol. Anyways I think your response here with lack of knowing numbers and understanding ended this convo. One person knows what he's talking about and showed you why. While you clearly don't and just wanna use your opinions.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

imthegame19 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Sunday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 7.12.2020 | Showbuzz Daily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.showbuzzdaily.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude you clearly have no clue what you are talking about here. Showpiercer finale had two episode one of them did 1.2 million and the other did 1.1 million viewers. With AEW like .31 and .34 18 to 49 demo.


When's the last time AEW did 1.2?


----------



## Kentucky34

Chip Chipperson said:


> When's the last time AEW did 1.2?


When they were doing 1 million flat a few weeks after their debut show many were disappointed.

Now they are doing 800k for a heavily hyped show and their fans are saying it is a great number. 

Expectations have fallen.


----------



## imthegame19

Kentucky34 said:


> When they were doing 1 million flat a few weeks after their debut show many were disappointed.
> 
> Now they are doing 800k for a heavily hyped show and their fans are saying it is a great number.
> 
> Expectations have fallen.


Or people understand cable ratings better now. Then they did when the show first started? By looking at the ratings every week and comparing how they do vs other shows on cable.


Then you would see there's like 100,000 to 800,000 viewers difference Dynamite and top viewed programming that isn't seasonal sports or news. While AEW 18 to 49 demo is often better or similar to most of that programming. 


So anyone calling wrestling or AEW in general niche programming. Is well wrong and it's one of the more consistent draws with reality shows to cable tv. Unless of course you are a news channel. Hopefully people learned this now or are willing to accept these facts. Because I'm done with this conversation.


----------



## The Wood

I can’t believe how many people are applauding 920k and are calling that a “draw.” If you can’t see what is wrong with that, I don’t think anyone can help you.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> I can’t believe how many people are applauding 920k and are calling that a “draw.” If you can’t see what is wrong with that, I don’t think anyone can help you.


Nuh uh cable is different now. AEW has five million people streaming weekly!


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> I can’t believe how many people are applauding 920k and are calling that a “draw.” If you can’t see what is wrong with that, I don’t think anyone can help you.


Maybe not in 2003 but demo for quarter would put show in top 5 most nights in 2020 - join us here sometime


----------



## imthegame19

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317854855990595584


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317854855990595584


So Dynamite getting better numbers isn't impressive since it says in there that it's on a bigger channel than Raw, SmackDown, NXT, and Impact. Just more propping up being done here to make it look like its more impressive than it is.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

imthegame19 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317854855990595584


that’s pretty awesome - the UK loves wrestling. Great to see them perform

and I recon the UK also has a ton of FITE subs


----------



## Aedubya

London, Manchester & Glasgow for dates please
Even Ireland, Dublin & Belfast would be awesome too


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

imthegame19 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317854855990595584


even with all the problems that AEW have had with ITV, this is impressive.


----------



## sim8

optikk sucks said:


> even with all the problems that AEW have had with ITV, this is impressive.


I know someone will talk about how WWE and NXT are on a pay channel so less viewers have it but still, well done AEW.


----------



## sim8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317668743812587520
Views?


----------



## imthegame19

sim8 said:


> I know someone will talk about how WWE and NXT are on a pay channel so less viewers have it but still, well done AEW.


Yeah WWE and NXT are also live right? While AEW airs a few days later. So it doesn't count people living in UK who pay to watch it live on Fite.


----------



## sim8

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah WWE and NXT are also live right? While AEW airs a few days later. So it doesn't count people living in UK who pay to watch it live on Fite.


Good point


----------



## imthegame19

sim8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317668743812587520
> Views?


In 2011 TNA had best year of ratings averaging around 1.6 to 1.7 million viewers which is what Raw doing now. But that was much different time and a lot more people were watching cable tv then. In 2011 Raw averaged between 4.7 and 5 million viewers. NBA and MLB playoff averaged around 5 million viewers. 


In 2020 we know Raw doing between 1.6 to 1.7 million viewers. But MLB playoffs is now averaging around 2.5m viewers and NBA playoffs did like 2.5 to 3m viewers. So if we adjust TNA numbers to modern times. They are doing about what NXT doing at 650,000-700,000 viewers at their peak. Which is why when they got down to around million viewers in 2014. Spike had no problem dropping them after whole Russo thing, since that's like 450,000 to 500,000 viewers today.


----------



## taker1986

imthegame19 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317854855990595584


The UK is currently in the peak of the 2nd wave of corona. I think 2022 is a more realistic time for a UK show.

That being said I think when they finally manage to come over here they should be super ambitious and try and book Wembley stadium. With the large and growing fanbase in the UK and the anticipation for AEWs first show outside of North America, they could absolutely sell out Wembley for a PPV


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Ozell Gray said:


> So Dynamite getting better numbers isn't impressive since it says in there that it's on a bigger channel than Raw, SmackDown, NXT, and Impact. Just more propping up being done here to make it look like its more impressive than it is.


Smoke and mirrors. Might work on an AEW fan looking for a "AEW da best" post but not when analysed.



taker1986 said:


> The UK is currently in the peak of the 2nd wave of corona. I think 2022 is a more realistic time for a UK show.
> 
> That being said I think when they finally manage to come over here they should be super ambitious and try and book Wembley stadium. With the large and growing fanbase in the UK and the anticipation for AEWs first show outside of North America, they could absolutely sell out Wembley for a PPV


This is why AEW fans are laughed at.

They could absolutely sell out Wembley Stadium? The 90,000 seat football stadium that looks like this when full? During what will no doubt be a global recession and the tail end of a pandemic.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

taker1986 said:


> The UK is currently in the peak of the 2nd wave of corona. I think 2022 is a more realistic time for a UK show.
> 
> That being said I think when they finally manage to come over here they should be super ambitious and try and book Wembley stadium. With the large and growing fanbase in the UK and the anticipation for AEWs first show outside of North America, they could absolutely sell out Wembley for a PPV


i would fly in for it - that's how big the show will be


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

I’m not sure about Wembley stadium but they’d do Wembley arena and at a massive stretch, o2 arena.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Wembley arena is doable and would still be a phenomenal achievement.

I don't understand the obsession with AEW doing stadium events. This is the second or third time I've seen posters suggesting AEW could fill these massive football stadiums with six figure capacities


----------



## The Wood

Haha, holy shit at Dave Meltzer’s ramblings and fans thinking they can sell out stadiums. Wow.


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> Haha, holy shit at Dave Meltzer’s ramblings and fans thinking they can sell out stadiums. Wow.


It would be interesting to see them try to be honest. They possibly could have for the first show because of the hype around the unknown. Think they would struggle now but still be an interesting barometer.

In no way am I saying it is something they should do though. Just be interesting


----------



## Wolf Mark

imthegame19 said:


> In 2011 TNA had best year of ratings averaging around 1.6 to 1.7 million viewers which is what Raw doing now. But that was much different time and a lot more people were watching cable tv then. In 2011 Raw averaged between 4.7 and 5 million viewers. NBA and MLB playoff averaged around 5 million viewers.
> 
> 
> In 2020 we know Raw doing between 1.6 to 1.7 million viewers. But MLB playoffs is now averaging around 2.5m viewers and NBA playoffs did like 2.5 to 3m viewers. So if we adjust TNA numbers to modern times. They are doing about what NXT doing at 650,000-700,000 viewers at their peak. Which is why when they got down to around million viewers in 2014. Spike had no problem dropping them after whole Russo thing, since that's like 450,000 to 500,000 viewers today.


I never bought that. If entertainment companies would offer a product that people would love to see, they would watch it. WWE doesn't do bad numbers just cause "people watch less TV now". They are doing badly cause people have abandoned their product over time cause it sucks. Same with any other sports. There was a huge thing years ago about men in general having stopped watching TV and that is why in the mid 2000s the big networks started to focus on more female-oriented product and reality TV and how men only watched sports. But they forgot to mention that there's a little show called The Sopranos that came in and guys realised that that was cool shit that you could not find on regular TV. Then came Mad Men and Breaking Bad, etc...They quit regular TV cause they found better elsewhere cause they were better served elsewhere. That the networks decided to abandon them after that instead of doing better shows, fair play, I guess, you reap what you sow. Finally sure there's now more streaming services than ever but you can stream seasons in one weekend. Live sporting action shows like any sport leagues and wrestling still can have an appeal but deliver the goods and don't piss the audience off.


----------



## taker1986

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i would fly in for it - that's how big the show will be


It would be huge. Not only the UK but people all over Europe would fly over for this show since they're much closer to the UK than the US. An AEW PPV would definitely sell out Wembley stadium. Remember this is an entire country that's going to want to go to this. I know plenty of people that would be going personally.


----------



## 3venflow

I'm convinced AEW in the UK would do some good numbers, but Wembley might be too big. However, a 30-40,000 seater is a possibility.

Craven Cottage would be logical because the Khans own Fulham so there'd be no rental costs I believe. It seats around 19,500 but if you add people on the pitch, quite a few more.

I live in the north of England and if AEW came here I would 100% go. It'd be my first live show here since WCW in 1993 when I was a youngun.


----------



## imthegame19

Wolf Mark said:


> I never bought that. If entertainment companies would offer a product that people would love to see, they would watch it. WWE doesn't do bad numbers just cause "people watch less TV now". They are doing badly cause people have abandoned their product over time cause it sucks. Same with any other sports. There was a huge thing years ago about men in general having stopped watching TV and that is why in the mid 2000s the big networks started to focus on more female-oriented product and reality TV and how men only watched sports. But they forgot to mention that there's a little show called The Sopranos that came in and guys realised that that was cool shit that you could not find on regular TV. Then came Mad Men and Breaking Bad, etc...They quit regular TV cause they found better elsewhere cause they were better served elsewhere. That the networks decided to abandon them after that instead of doing better shows, fair play, I guess, you reap what you sow. Finally sure there's now more streaming services than ever but you can stream seasons in one weekend. Live sporting action shows like any sport leagues and wrestling still can have an appeal but deliver the goods and don't piss the audience off.


When nothing but News and NFL(which is way down from what it was) gets more then 2 or 3 million viewers. It shows there's cable network tv viewing problem. People simply aren't watching any of these channels anymore or even giving it a chance. 


With many potentially cutting the cord in recent years. Or if they still do have these channels from streaming or apps and are still watching this content. It's not being calculated correctly with outdated Nieslen system. That's why if you take 2011 TNA product and put it on Paramount Network today. There's zero chance it does anywhere close to 1.6 or 1.7m viewers. 


If we saw random big spikes in cable tv ratings then your theory might be correct. But it's clear people aren't watching these channels anywhere close to the way they did for anything. So they either don't have those channels anymore and current content isn't given a chance. Or they are watching it but it's in different way and not being calculated correctly. Either way it's clear you can't compare ratings from 5, 10, 20 years ago that's for sure. 

There's a reason why USA is paying so much money for wrestling. There's a reason why TNT gave AEW 175 million for 2 year extension after 3 months. That's because wrestling is one of the few things these days that brings consistently weekly viewership spike to these networks. Which makes them very valuable. When in years past it was much easier to get viewers to watch whatever was on these channels. So wrestling had no leverage to ask for big money in rights fees. 


So instead of looking down on wrestling ratings in 2020. It really should he the opposite. Ratings are lower cuz much less people are watching these channels. While wrestling is something that is actually bringing viewers and now wrestling companies are making more money from tv then ever before because of it. That's really reality of the situation. So old timers who bash the ratings and try to use that to bash the product. Just don't get today's landscape and are out of touch.


The whole theory of back in my day 5 to 8 million were watching wrestling. Now we can't get 2 million to watch on Mondays or 2 million between two shows on Wednesday. So the product must suck now and was better then. Yet those numbers all mean zero when you look at value wrestling has to networks in 2020 vs 5, 10, 20 years ago. Because back then you can get people to watch these networks so much easier and viewership spiked the shows brought weren't as impactful. 


That's why USA let Raw to to Spike when they wanted small rights fee. That's why TNT didn't wanna bother with Nitro anymore. That's why Smackdown had bounced around to bunch of different networks over the years(vs now worth 200 million per year), That's why Spike dumped TNA when they still had bunch of big stars. In reality wrestling is doing much better among people actually watching tv now vs in the past. 


You can have own personal opinions on product and when it was better. Personally I liked product much better 20 years ago too and even WWE product 4 or 5 years ago vs today. But whole theory of wrestling dying and nobody watching is laughable. They are making more money then ever from tv. Wrestling and t.v. business is better then ever before. Will that change as networks adapt who knows. But right now wrestling t.v. business is more successful then ever. That's the facts and how much money they are making from tv vs years past. Is much more important number the Nielsen numbers now vs then. Nobody can debate or debunk that. So that's end of discussion on this for me.


----------



## LongPig666

optikk sucks said:


> even with all the problems that AEW have had with ITV, this is impressive.


Yeah. Based on this source I have summarized the weekly averages ratings numbers to month for UK audiences.

*In January all WWE shows went from "Sky" cable to "BT Sports" and usually air live.
**AEW airs on ITV 4 and inconsistent times at a two day delay.
***Dynamite on Fite not included.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LongPig666 said:


> Yeah. Based on this source I have summarized the weekly averages ratings numbers to month for UK audiences.
> 
> *In January all WWE shows went from "Sky" cable to "BT Sports" and usually air live.
> **AEW airs on ITV 4 and inconsistent times at a two day delay.
> ***Dynamite on Fite not included.
> 
> View attachment 92176


That increase from July to September is crazy.


----------



## LongPig666

optikk sucks said:


> That increase from July to September is crazy.


As you said earlier, if only ITV pulled their fingers out of their asses when scheduling, AEW could establish themselves pretty well.


----------



## Wolf Mark

imthegame19 said:


> When nothing but News and NFL(which is way down from what it was) gets more then 2 or 3 million viewers. It shows there's cable network tv viewing problem. People simply aren't watching any of these channels anymore or even giving it a chance.
> 
> 
> With many potentially cutting the cord in recent years. Or if they still do have these channels from streaming or apps and are still watching this content. It's not being calculated correctly with outdated Nieslen system. That's why if you take 2011 TNA product and put it on Paramount Network today. There's zero chance it does anywhere close to 1.6 or 1.7m viewers.
> 
> 
> If we saw random big spikes in cable tv ratings then your theory might be correct. But it's clear people aren't watching these channels anywhere close to the way they did for anything. So they either don't have those channels anymore and current content isn't given a chance. Or they are watching it but it's in different way and not being calculated correctly. Either way it's clear you can't compare ratings from 5, 10, 20 years ago that's for sure.
> 
> There's a reason why USA is paying so much money for wrestling. There's a reason why TNT gave AEW 175 million for 2 year extension after 3 months. That's because wrestling is one of the few things these days that brings consistently weekly viewership spike to these networks. Which makes them very valuable. When in years past it was much easier to get viewers to watch whatever was on these channels. So wrestling had no leverage to ask for big money in rights fees.
> 
> 
> So instead of looking down on wrestling ratings in 2020. It really should he the opposite. Ratings are lower cuz much less people are watching these channels. While wrestling is something that is actually bringing viewers and now wrestling companies are making more money from tv then ever before because of it. That's really reality of the situation. So old timers who bash the ratings and try to use that to bash the product. Just don't get today's landscape and are out of touch.
> 
> 
> The whole theory of back in my day 5 to 8 million were watching wrestling. Now we can't get 2 million to watch on Mondays or 2 million between two shows on Wednesday. So the product must suck now and was better then. Yet those numbers all mean zero when you look at value wrestling has to networks in 2020 vs 5, 10, 20 years ago. Because back then you can get people to watch these networks so much easier and viewership spiked the shows brought weren't as impactful.
> 
> 
> That's why USA let Raw to to Spike when they wanted small rights fee. That's why TNT didn't wanna bother with Nitro anymore. That's why Smackdown had bounced around to bunch of different networks over the years(vs now worth 200 million per year), That's why Spike dumped TNA when they still had bunch of big stars. In reality wrestling is doing much better among people actually watching tv now vs in the past.
> 
> 
> You can have own personal opinions on product and when it was better. Personally I liked product much better 20 years ago too and even WWE product 4 or 5 years ago vs today. But whole theory of wrestling dying and nobody watching is laughable. They are making more money then ever from tv. Wrestling and t.v. business is better then ever before. Will that change as networks adapt who knows. But right now wrestling t.v. business is more successful then ever. That's the facts and how much money they are making from tv vs years past. Is much more important number the Nielsen numbers now vs then. Nobody can debate or debunk that. So that's end of discussion on this for me.


I'm not saying they don't make money given that networks are desperate for live programming. But the decline in the WWE ratings did not happen because people were watching that network less. It happened graducally over time the product became less and less attrative and wrestling stopped being the hot thing. 

Wrestling is in demand because networks are in a fight for survival and they are going after all the remaining scraps they can. So even if WWE does 1.5, Fox will take it cause it's better than nothing. But I'll never give Fox the benefit of the doubt that they have more competition. All these networks had to do was offer great stuff. 

I mean the WWE has never been worse. It got worse and worse every year cause they didn't have WCW to push them. I mean that's a fact that people stopped watching them cause they sucked. During the MNW they got 8 in ratings. Then there was a slump after WCW died. I was watching a Meltzer podcast from arounf 2002 and the WWF were in panic by the drop in ratings. Then in went to 5 and then 4 and they were failing to create new stars and went PG. Then it became 3s and then 2s and then we are at 1s. Look at the recent years where they kept pushing Reigns down people's throats and people had enough. There's so much that people can take. 

I've seen similar things happened in the magazine business. I was an avid movie magazine reader and at some point many went bankrupt and they disappeared. The argument was it was because of the internet. I mean there was competition. Cause some of the mags relied on movie news and now you could have that quicker on the net. But from someone with a direct knowledge of what was going on, I had seen an incredible drop in quality across the board for these magazines. That is why I had stopped reading them. And at some point I was reading MANY of them. I never stopped getting them because they were not there but because the quality had dropped. All they had to do was not lay on their laurels and produce great stuff like they had done in their prime. I remember much noise was made around Fangoria possibly ending publication and fans were upset. The owners were like we have trouble keeping up. But again, their stuff as not up to par. Whereas a small Canadian publication like Rue Morgue was doing incredibly fine by knowing their fanbase and giving them what they want. Fortunately, when Fangoria came back, they did better material and they are sitll alive today. I think stopping for a little while and risking dying had put fire up their ass and they realised they had to be better. 

Saying people are not watching cause there's more things that people can consumate is a weak excuse. Go to the plate, hit the ball and do not be lazy and you'll be fine. Just deliver the goods.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

If ITV aired it at 8 the next night, it would be their biggest show


----------



## Aedubya

ITV don't care


----------



## The Wood

If only ITV didn’t hate money, right?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> If ITV aired it at 8 the next night, it would be their biggest show


can't take my corrie away bro


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> can't take my corrie away bro


lol, forgot about the Street

maybe another night


----------



## DammitChrist

Wembley stadium hosting AEW with a full enough arena some time between mid-2023 through late-2024 confirmed.



imthegame19 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317854855990595584


You’re very welcome, Cody Rhodes : proud

Thank you for helping make AEW (plus Dynamite) exist as it is today :drose


----------



## The Wood

Holy shit, that Cody tweet is embarrassing. Imagine if WWE put out a stylised graphic of how they do double of what AEW does. It’s bragging on such a low level and it just invites them to be mocked when they get their ass kicked.


----------



## DammitChrist

That Cody tweet is pretty genuine and wholesome tbh. 

It’s good to see him being appreciative of all the fans


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Cody should be aiming for Wembley Stadium. Anything less would be a failure


----------



## $Dolladrew$

AEW Dynamite is drawing more viewers than WWE Raw, SmackDown and Impact Wrestling in the UK | Wrestling News


Cody Rhodes posted a graphic on his Twitter account that touted AEW’s impressive numbers in the United Kingdom. The graphic below lists the following: – AEW Dynamite is beating the first-run broadcast of all its competitors in the UK for audience volume. – Dynamite’s audience is over 5 times...




www.google.com


----------



## $Dolladrew$

AEW Dynamite is beating the first-run broadcast of all its competitors in the UK for audience volume.
– Dynamite’s audience is over 5 times that of NXT, double that of Smackdown and almost double of *Raw*.
– It is almost double the audience of *Impact Wrestling*, which had been airing in the same time slot as Dynamite and also on a free-to-air channel.
– Dynamite benefits from reaching considerably more people than any of its competitors.
– Full episodes of Dynamite on ITV4 have reached 2.8m people, based on 5+ consecutive minutes of viewing.
– In its first year AEW programming on ITV channels reached 6.7m people, based on them having at least 5 consecutive minutes of viewing.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

We've got a ratings thread. In that thread we learned AEW does better because it's on free to air TV. AEW fans overreacted saying AEW could no doubt fill the 110,000 seat Wembley Stadium in a moment of hilarity

Move along, nothing to see here


----------



## InexorableJourney

2.8 Million people on the *4th* ITV channel, holy moley.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

This really is fantastic news no matter how some people try to paint it.

Nobody watches itv 4


----------



## The Wood

This tweet is just really sad. The tone of it is just so desperate. And one of them is the same point reworded, haha.

Bragging about having 5 times the audience of NXT internationally is just...so sad. “Hey, we got you here!” And they’re even taking aim at smaller promotions than them.

I really want WWE to put out one that talks about Raw and SmackDown absolutely smash AEW stateside, how much more money they make and how they’re in so many more countries. Then I want a promotion to put out one satirising this and talking about how they’re just a better overall promotion and don’t have to go putting out wanky graphics puffing up their chests.


----------



## taker1986

And that's all despite ITV being useless to AEW. Always changing times on the Friday night on ITV4 and the ITV1 episode on Monday has been shown on Tuesday for the last 2 weeks lol. 

These are great numbers given these facts and that most hardcore fans like myself will just watch on FiteTV on Wed night or Thurs, or watch on illegal streams. 

More and more people are watching as more word gets out. It's just a pity that ITV don't have their back.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

As many has said - ITV is useless

so, this is well done

they should get a better deal in the UK though


----------



## The Wood

InexorableJourney said:


> 2.8 Million people on the *4th* ITV channel, holy moley.


And yet they don’t get 2.8 million viewers, I bet. Sounds like most people switched off the show.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Great news. AEW continues to trailblaze!!!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEW smokin on that WWE pack


----------



## somerandomfan

Is WWE still on a premium channel in the UK? This article implies AEW is on a free channel over there. I know years ago Impact used to beat WWE in the ratings over there for that reason.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

somerandomfan said:


> Is WWE still on a premium channel in the UK? This article implies AEW is on a free channel over there. I know years ago Impact used to beat WWE in the ratings over there for that reason.


Yup. Funny how you can twist and manipulate things by telling half the story


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Orange Cassidy is the next breed of Cerebral Assassin.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

ripcitydisciple said:


> Orange Cassidy is the next breed of Cerebral Assassin.


Orange Cassidy could literally be the next version of Eddie Guerrero. Thankfully he won’t get on the gear like Eddie did. Means we can look forward to another 20 years of OC


----------



## The Wood

Serious question: Is there anything Orange Cassidy does better than Eddie Guerrero? Charisma? Eddie wins. Promos? Eddie wins. Look? Eddie wins. In-ring? Eddie wins.

Comparing this guy to wrestlers of the past might be the most effective way of shattering the myth.


----------



## The Wood

somerandomfan said:


> Is WWE still on a premium channel in the UK? This article implies AEW is on a free channel over there. I know years ago Impact used to beat WWE in the ratings over there for that reason.


Yep. Even Cody’s hype is smoke and mirrors.


----------



## NathanMayberry

> In its first year AEW programming on ITV channels reached 6.7m people, based on them having at least 5 consecutive minutes of viewing.


In an entire year of 52 weeks, on a free chancel, 6.7 million have watched more than 5 minutes on their show on Friday night. 



> Full episodes of Dynamite on ITV4 have reached 2.8m people, based on 5+ consecutive minutes of viewing


In an entire year of 52 weeks, on a free chancel, 2.8 million have watched more than 5 minutes on their streaming service? 

Why aren't they comparing the numbers from the WWE re-runs that air at a much more reasonable time? Why is it cherry picked to only include the original 1 AM live shows?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> Orange Cassidy could literally be the next version of Eddie Guerrero. Thankfully he won’t get on the gear like Eddie did. Means we can look forward to another 20 years of OC


Wrestlers I've seen Orange compared to on this forum

Daniel Bryan, Eddie Guerrero, Gorgeous George, Hulk Hogan, The Rock



The Wood said:


> Serious question: Is there anything Orange Cassidy does better than Eddie Guerrero? Charisma? Eddie wins. Promos? Eddie wins. Look? Eddie wins. In-ring? Eddie wins.
> 
> Comparing this guy to wrestlers of the past might be the most effective way of shattering the myth.


Orange Cassidy embarasses the business way better


----------



## Zapato

WWE is on BT Sports after being on Sky Sports for an age, both subscription channels. They do show Raw and SD highlights/1 hr on Channel 5 which is free/terrestrial TV like ITV1 and ITV4. They are the shows to compare numbers on. Especially when you take into account the time differences for the live shows.


----------



## .christopher.

ITV are never going to promote AEW heavily. Wrestling is too looked down upon in general. Back around 99 when channel 4 had the hottest wrestling product ever, and was airing the 99 Royal Rumble live for free in the middle of the night, they still didn't promote it that much. 

Also, AEW at Wembley would make game day at the Etihad look full by comparison.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

This is bullshit nonsense they’re spreading. 2.8 million people for *5 minutes of viewing*. Smh. If Raw was on BBC or ITV, it’d do astronomical numbers. AEW is on free TV, WWE is behind a paywall.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Here's the data guys for the most recent AEW Top programmes report

AEW drew 143000 for 2020-10-09 22:56:10-24:44:08


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> AEW smokin on that WWE pack


Glad to see that saying in the wrestling world 





TheGreatBanana said:


> This is bullshit nonesense their spreading. 2.8 million people for *5 minutes of viewing*. Smh. If Raw was on BBC or ITV, it’d do astronomical numbers. AEW is on free TV, WWE is behind a paywall.


I mean WWE signed the deal to be behind a paywall.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

RapShepard said:


> I mean WWE signed the deal to be behind a paywall.


That’s because WWE treats it’s product like a premium. It’s been like this for decades. AEW is a just cheap free product. That doesn’t mean AEW will suddenly fill out the O2 arena. It won’t.


----------



## JeSeGaN

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yup. Funny how you can twist and manipulate things by telling half the story


Nothing new for AEW fanboys.


----------



## RapShepard

TheGreatBanana said:


> That’s because WWE treats it’s product like a premium. It’s been like this for decades. AEW is a just cheap free product. That doesn’t mean AEW will suddenly fill out the O2 arena. It won’t.


Understandable. Just saying it's not necessarily a spin on AEWs end to say they're more viewed.


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> Understandable. Just saying it's not necessarily a spin on AEWs end to say they're more viewed.


Well, it’s technically true, but it’s spin to leave out the bit about different levels of accessibility.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> Wrestlers I've seen Orange compared to on this forum
> 
> Daniel Bryan, Eddie Guerrero, Gorgeous George, Hulk Hogan, The Rock
> 
> 
> 
> Orange Cassidy embarasses the business way better


Orange Cassidy ‘embarrasses’ the business more by making them regret not signing him to a big wrestling company sooner tbh.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

DammitChrist said:


> Orange Cassidy ‘embarrasses’ the business more by making them regret not signing him to a big wrestling company sooner tbh.


OC even drawing all ages, male and female.


----------



## Nothing Finer

NathanMayberry said:


> In an entire year of 52 weeks, on a free chancel, 6.7 million have watched more than 5 minutes on their show on Friday night.
> 
> 
> In an entire year of 52 weeks, on a free chancel, 2.8 million have watched more than 5 minutes on their streaming service?
> 
> Why aren't they comparing the numbers from the WWE re-runs that air at a much more reasonable time? Why is it cherry picked to only include the original 1 AM live shows?


They're comparing first run TV broadcasts. Dynamite isn't broadcast live on ITV 4, it's only available on streaming services, whereas WWE is broadcast live. 

There's really no good way to compare them.


----------



## DammitChrist

AEW once again continuing to succeed on another metric. That’s no surprise there at all for me :bjpenn



JeSeGaN said:


> Nothing new for AEW fanboys.


Ooh, someone is mad and bitter :lol


----------



## Alright_Mate

Depends how people are adding these numbers up, yet if you look at an actual ratings sheet, AEW are posting around 140k and are getting beaten by other sports such as Tennis and even some Films.

AEW isn’t shown in an ideal time slot though, you have to wait about two days and it’s always shown at about 10pm, the advantage for them is being on ITV 4 which is more accessible than what WWE are on.

WWE are now on BT Sport which you have to pay extra for, they used to be on Sky which you also have to pay extra for, moving to BT was probably a worse move though.


----------



## 3venflow

DammitChrist said:


> AEW once again continuing to succeed on another metric. That’s no surprise there at all for me :bjpenn
> 
> Ooh, someone is mad and bitter :lol


Yup. Trust me, I'm English and AEW does really well considering ITV doesn't push it. ITV also had PPVs, but their Box Office service went under. One thing AEW clearly already has is a phenomenally loyal base of fans. When TNT kept shifting the timeslot recently, there was still a good consistency both with the rating and the demos.

And it's also important to reiterate that the diehards will be watching AEW on FITE TV, since it's live and ad-free, so those people (like myself) won't be watching the ITV broadcast.

A good result despite the usuals spouting their daily venom.

AEW would do a good paid crowd in the UK and I expect to see them over here when the world gets back to normal. Wasn't Fyter Fest supposed to be over here before the pandemic?

BTW, WWE is also on free-to-air... Channel 5 has the RAW and Smackdown highlights. I'm not sure how they do, I can't find any reference to them. Here are the latest rating comparisons I've found.

Raw live on October 5 – 63,800
NXT live on October 7 – did not chart
SmackDown live on October 9 – 65,700
Impact Wrestling on Freesports – 13,000
AEW Dynamite from October 7 (aired October 9) – 143,000


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TheGreatBanana said:


> That’s because WWE treats it’s product like a premium. It’s been like this for decades. AEW is a just cheap free product. That doesn’t mean AEW will suddenly fill out the O2 arena. It won’t.


Just the 02? Fuck that, AEW could sell out Wembley stadium


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

3venflow said:


> Yup. Trust me, I'm English and AEW does really well considering ITV doesn't push it. ITV also had PPVs, but their Box Office service went under. One thing AEW clearly already has is a phenomenally loyal base of fans. When TNT kept shifting the timeslot recently, there was still a good consistency both with the rating and the demos.
> 
> And it's also important to reiterate that the diehards will be watching AEW on FITE TV, since it's live and ad-free, so those people (like myself) won't be watching the ITV broadcast.
> 
> A good result despite the usuals spouting their daily venom.
> 
> AEW would do a good paid crowd in the UK and I expect to see them over here when the world gets back to normal. Wasn't Fyter Fest supposed to be over here before the pandemic?
> 
> BTW, WWE is also on free-to-air... Channel 5 has the RAW and Smackdown highlights. I'm not sure how they do, I can't find any reference to them. Here are the latest rating comparisons I've found.
> 
> Raw live on October 5 – 63,800
> NXT live on October 7 – did not chart
> SmackDown live on October 9 – 65,700
> Impact Wrestling on Freesports – 13,000
> AEW Dynamite from October 7 (aired October 9) – 143,000


Nobody watches the highlights. The ratings are so poor that they don’t chart. I think it’s clear that those who wish to watch the WWE will have BT sports.
I mean who doesn’t have BT sports anyway these days? Need it for football. I think people who don’t live in our country can say anything.


----------



## .christopher.

This was like when TNA were bragging about their numbers here in England. WWE, as shit as they are, are still in another league even here.

Though, tbf to TNA, they were on a premium channel here in England at first, too, and still did well. We had something called "the wrestling channel" or something that you needed to buy.


----------



## BRITLAND

.christopher. said:


> ITV are never going to promote AEW heavily. Wrestling is too looked down upon in general. Back around 99 when channel 4 had the hottest wrestling product ever, and was airing the 99 Royal Rumble live for free in the middle of the night, they still didn't promote it that much.
> 
> Also, AEW at Wembley would make game day at the Etihad look full by comparison.


This reminds me of someone saying on another forum that the T4 presenters (T4 was a bloc of programming on Channel 4 at weekends aimed at teenagers) used to make fun of WWF Heat when it was about to air.


----------



## rich110991

I live in the UK and I love AEW, and I literally forgot that AEW had anything to do with ITV. Like others have said I didn’t think anyone watched ITV4 really. So the fact that they’re doing so well on there is great news. Can’t wait for there to be a live show on in the UK.


----------



## .christopher.

BRITLAND said:


> This reminds me of someone saying on another forum that the T4 presenters (T4 was a bloc of programming on Channel 4 at weekends aimed at teenagers) used to make fun of WWF Heat when it was about to air.


Yep. This was wrestling at its biggest ever peak, too. Not only was it one of the hottest things on the planet at the time, but it was actually entertaining, and yet it was still looked down upon.

AEW has no chance of ITV taking it seriously whether it warrants it or not.


----------



## Bystander

Nothing really surprising here, especially since WWE has it's shows on Premium Channels which not all households in the UK will have, especially now it's on BT Sports rather than Sky, even less households have this channel than they do with Sky Sports.

I'm sure AEW probably know this but anything for a bit of cheap publicity, can't blame them in that regard but it really means fuck all.


----------



## qntntgood

$Dolladrew$ said:


> AEW Dynamite is drawing more viewers than WWE Raw, SmackDown and Impact Wrestling in the UK | Wrestling News
> 
> 
> Cody Rhodes posted a graphic on his Twitter account that touted AEW’s impressive numbers in the United Kingdom. The graphic below lists the following: – AEW Dynamite is beating the first-run broadcast of all its competitors in the UK for audience volume. – Dynamite’s audience is over 5 times...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


Impact wrestling did the same thing,and got 2 million people to watch their here in the u.s.


----------



## DaSlacker

The Wood said:


> And yet they don’t get 2.8 million viewers, I bet. Sounds like most people switched off the show.


It's spin.

According to the most recent ratings for iTV4, the top rated show was French Open (0.381 million viewers). The bottom rated show was horse racing (0.144 million viewers). AEW didn't feature in the top 10, whereas Rambo 2 and Dirty Dozen did lol.

Though it is true they attract bigger ratings than all the other wrestling shows. However, being affiliated with ITV and its app here in the UK is like being on Channel Seven in Australia.


----------



## BRITLAND

.christopher. said:


> Yep. This was wrestling at its biggest ever peak, too. Not only was it one of the hottest things on the planet at the time, but it was actually entertaining, and yet it was still looked down upon.
> 
> AEW has no chance of ITV taking it seriously whether it warrants it or not.


Yeah I agree, I just don't think pro-wrestling will ever get ratings justified for the likes of BBC, ITV and Channel 4 in a serious TV slot on their main channels. ITV in the past has tried harder to promote wrestling than I thought they would tbh.

The new WOS, which they took more seriously than I thought they would kept dropping in the ratings, they went from 1.25m for their comeback on one new years eve, then starting a new series that went from 0.7m to 0.4m within a week at some point, which is obviously dire for a network like ITV, the most viewed free to air commercial channel in the UK.

Also back in 2005 ITV aired "Celebrity Wrestling" hosted by Roddy Piper and Kate Thornton, the latter who also hosted The X Factor UK at the time, in other words a household name around this time. It even had an aftershow on ITV2 called "Bring It On" hosted by Jack Osbourne and Holly Willoughby, the latter who is a really famous TV host in the UK. The show was moved from its primetime Saturday night slot to a Sunday morning graveyard slot due to extremely low ratings getting hammered by Doctor Who on BBC One. From what I gather the show was shit and even looked down by wrestling fans but was reading other UK TV forums and this often came up as one of the worst Saturday night programmes thread with folk saying "who wants to watch celebrities wrestling on a Saturday night" etc.

I'm still amazed WWE/wrestling was able to get a slot on FOX in the US considering its the fourth biggest TV network over there!


----------



## imscotthALLIN

Fake stats for a second rate wrestling organization.


----------



## Klitschko

Chip Chipperson said:


> Wrestlers I've seen Orange compared to on this forum
> 
> Daniel Bryan, Eddie Guerrero, Gorgeous George, Hulk Hogan, The Rock
> 
> 
> 
> Orange Cassidy embarasses the business way better


I dont know man, he could be the next John Cena.




There ya go. To add one more to the list.


----------



## JeSeGaN

DammitChrist said:


> Ooh, someone is mad and bitter :lol


Not really. 

Just tired of AEW fanboys telling half-truths and overhyping every little thing.


----------



## Wolf Mark

This was the same thing years ago when TNA was in a halfly decent shape. They had better ratings than the WWE and they were killing it in the UK. AEW should just ignore WWE, it's just not a good look. It made TNA look small back in the day and the same thing is happening here.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> I dont man, he could be the next John Cena.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There ya go. To add one more to the list.


Thank you kindly sir.


----------



## Mercian

I knew it was on some freeview channel couldnt tell you which, as far as knew it was on late at night during a Friday night? Figures seem high but not surprised

Certainly didnt know WWE had a catch up show on Channel 5 but it does suffer that most is on subscription service here

The major channels have put Wrestling on here even WCW got a prime weekend TV time slot for a few years, last we got was another bad British Wrestling reboot with the camera zooming away any moves likes punches!


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> OC even drawing all ages, male and female.


The little girl has literally never seen OC put his thumb up lazily, she's been coached to do it wrong.


----------



## wwehbk01

Don’t surprise me that AEW in U.K. beating WWE in ratings especially how rubbish WWE is at moment


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CM Buck

Can't we just leave the unit measuring in the ratings thread?


----------



## Aedubya

BRITLAND said:


> This reminds me of someone saying on another forum that the T4 presenters (T4 was a bloc of programming on Channel 4 at weekends aimed at teenagers) used to make fun of WWF Heat when it was about to air.


Yep
That smug Welsh assclown Steve Jones was the main presenter (there were a few I know but he was the main guy) 
He presents the F1 coverage now


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Firefromthegods said:


> Can't we just leave the unit measuring in the ratings thread?


Don't bring logic into an AEW brag thread m8.


----------



## Dizzie

Take it with a pinch of salt as one is one free tv and one is on bt sport tv which doesn't have the same pull as sky in terms of getting people to pay for the subscription, also aew is on demand with the ITV player, none of which is a bad thing for exposure though.


----------



## thorn123

Go you good thing ...


----------



## mike10dude

same thing used to happen with TNA and people were also saying it was because it was on a channel that a lot more people got


----------



## Shaun_27

Free product beats paid product in shocking twist!


----------



## LongPig666

Dizzie said:


> Take it with a pinch of salt as one is one free tv and one is on bt sport tv which doesn't have the same pull as sky in terms of getting people to pay for the subscription, also aew is on demand with the ITV player, none of which is a bad thing for exposure though.


Even when WWE was on Sky - with an exposure to 11m households - AEW was still beating it.


----------



## 3venflow

Found the weekly ratings up till recently. The ratings are currently consistently the best they have been this year.

The show is usually on at 11pm or later on Friday night. The latest episode aired 11:45pm to 1:50am.

Sept 9 show was the biggest rating of the year - Dustin vs. Brodie. Didn't that pop a big rating in the US too despite an average lineup (OC vs. Angelico, Jericho/Hager vs. Kiss/Janela)?

January 1 (aired January 3) – 147,000
January 8 (aired January 10) – did not chart
January 15 (aired January 17) – 133,000
January 22 (aired January 24) – 106,000 (down 27,000 on the prior week)
January 29 (aired January 31) – 111,000 (up 5,000 on the prior week)
February 5 (aired February 7) – 97,000 (down 14,000 on the prior week)
February 12 (aired February 14) – 143,000 (up 46,000 on the prior week)
February 19 (aired February 21) – 124,000 (up 41,000 on the prior week)
February 26 (aired February 28) – 68,000 (down 56,000 on the prior week)
March 4 (aired March 6) – 89,000 (up 21,000 on the prior week)
March 11 (aired March 13) – did not chart
March 18 (aired March 20) – 101,000 (no week on week comparison)
March 25 (aired March 27) – did not chart
April 01 (aired April 03) – 117,000 (no week on week comparison)
April 08 (aired April 10) – did not chart
April 15 (aired April 17) – 106,000 (no week on week comparison)
April 22 (aired April 24) – did not chart
April 29 (aired May 01) – 127,000 (no week on week comparison)
May 06 (aired May 08) – did not chart
May 13 (aired May 15) – did not chart
May 20 (aired May 22) – 122,000 (no week on week comparison)
May 27 (aired May 29) – 111,000 (down 11,100 on the prior week)
June 03 (aired June 05) – 67,000 (down 44,000 on the prior week)
June 10 (aired June 12) – 133,000 (up 66,000 on the prior week)
June 17 (aired June 19) – 120,000 (down 13,000 on the prior week)
June 24 (aired June 26) – 103,000 (down 17,000 on the prior week)
July 1 (aired July 3 – Fyter Fest week one) – 92,000 (down 11,000 on the prior week)
July 8 (aired July 10 – Fyter Fest week two) – 96,000 (up 4,000 on the prior week)
July 15 (aired July 17 – Fight for the Fallen) – 100,000 (up 4,000 on the prior week)
July 22 (aired July 24) – 135,000 (up 35,000 on the prior week)
July 29 (aired July 31) – 83,000 (down 52,000 on the prior week)
August 5 (aired August 7) – 145,000 (up 62,000 on the prior week)
August 12 (aired August 14) – 108,000 (down 37,000 on the prior week)
August 22 (aired August 23) – 99,000 (down 9,000 on the prior week)
August 27 (aired August 30) – 151,000 (up 52,000 on the prior week)
September 2 (aired September 4) – 132,000 (down 19,000 on the prior week)
September 9 (aired September 11) – 159,000 (up 27,000 on the prior week)
September 16 (aired September 18) – 151,000 (down 8,000 on the prior week)
September 23 (aired September 25) – 117,000 (down 34,000 on the prior week)
September 30 (aired October 2) – 149,000 (up 32,000 on the prior week)
October 7 (aired October 9) – 143,000 (down 6,000 on the prior week)









UK TV Ratings


In the UK, WWE currently broadcasts on BT Sport – having moved there after spending decades with Sky Sports. Raw, SmackDown and NXT usually air live (that is, the same time as in the US) on B…




backbodydrop.com


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I thought the English had a reputation for liking really good wrestling


----------



## OldSchoolRocks

A big factor in this is that AEW broadcasts late night on ITV a free to air main channel in the UK. 
WWE are on subscription channels in the UK and lets face it there is not a lot worth subscribing for right now. 
The pay per views maybe but RAW and Smackdown is not exactly must see programming anymore.


----------



## fabi1982

WOW 6+m viewers, thats AE levels, lets bring AEW to the UK, as they must make billions of pounds with that fanbase!!!!!!

Sarcasm off: this is even more sad than WWE bragging with a trillion YouTube views


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> Yup. Trust me, I'm English and AEW does really well...AEW Dynamite from October 7 (aired October 9) – 143,000












It actually only did 99,000 during airing, the rest was recorded and time shifted.. That was less than reruns of Mr. Bean.


----------



## NathanMayberry

fabi1982 said:


> WOW 6+m viewers, thats AE levels, lets bring AEW to the UK, as they must make billions of pounds with that fanbase!!!!!!
> 
> Sarcasm off: this is even more sad than WWE bragging with a trillion YouTube views


Its not even 6 million, its 6 million who have watched at least 5 minutes. So if you took a shit at the end of a show and Dynamite started, and you came back and turned it off, you're counted as a fan for life.


----------



## fabi1982

NathanMayberry said:


> Its not even 6 million, its 6 million who have watched at least 5 minutes. So if you took a shit at the end of a show and Dynamite started, and you came back and turned it off, you're counted as a fan for life.


But thats what counts, right? And the AEW fans eating it up without any kind of objective view. Thats a cult.


----------



## omaroo

Don't see what the hype is for such viewers for 5 minutes.

Not really an achievement or something to write home about.

Man Cody, TK are fucking pathetic and cringy.


----------



## omaroo

Should be in their norm range this week 700k-800k nothing to write home about.


----------



## LongPig666

Chip Chipperson said:


> I thought the English had a reputation for liking really good wrestling


Thus Dynamite beating all WWE brands (combined) in 2020!



fabi1982 said:


> WOW 6+m viewers, thats AE levels, lets bring AEW to the UK, as they must make billions of pounds with that fanbase!!!!!!


Historically, 6 million viewers for (technical/grappling style) wrestling in Britain was low, it was known to have gone to 18m+. But well done to the Soap Opera Era!



fabi1982 said:


> But thats what counts, right? And the AEW fans eating it up without any kind of objective view. Thats a cult.


As an AEW fan, yes I fucking love how a barely one year old US mainstream wrestling show is destroying the WWDQE in the UK; despite it having had a free reign for 15 years in the UK scene, being a multi billion $ global promotion with huge infrastructure and bringing its own UK brand, it still didn't make any impact as all the best wrestlers didn't join NXT.

AEW are doing things right in the UK, WWE are being stupid. That's why I eat it up, because more exposure of AEW on British TV enhances British wrestling.


----------



## NathanMayberry

LongPig666 said:


> Historically, 6 million viewers for (technical/grappling style) wrestling in Britain was low, it was known to have gone to 18m+. But well done to the Soap Opera Era!


You understand that this is 6 million for an entire year right? 6 million over 52 weeks. Do the math to get what they get in a night.


----------



## LongPig666

NathanMayberry said:


> You understand that this is 6 million for an entire year right? 6 million over 52 weeks. Do the math to get what they get in a night.


Yes! That wasn't my point.


----------



## Geeee

Man, this is less impressive for AEW and more pathetic for WWE. Basically means that WWE doesn't have a presence in the UK. Despite NXT UK being a thing


----------



## wwehbk01

Bet Vince McMahon not happy AEW beating them in U.K. wonder if he add nxt highlights on channel 5 or have raw and smackdown highlights shown bit earlier. I would like see full raw and smackdown shows on channel 5 even it’s delay from bt like week or more but don’t think bt allow that 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## .christopher.

BRITLAND said:


> Yeah I agree, I just don't think pro-wrestling will ever get ratings justified for the likes of BBC, ITV and Channel 4 in a serious TV slot on their main channels. ITV in the past has tried harder to promote wrestling than I thought they would tbh.
> 
> The new WOS, which they took more seriously than I thought they would kept dropping in the ratings, they went from 1.25m for their comeback on one new years eve, then starting a new series that went from 0.7m to 0.4m within a week at some point, which is obviously dire for a network like ITV, the most viewed free to air commercial channel in the UK.
> 
> Also back in 2005 ITV aired "Celebrity Wrestling" hosted by Roddy Piper and Kate Thornton, the latter who also hosted The X Factor UK at the time, in other words a household name around this time. It even had an aftershow on ITV2 called "Bring It On" hosted by Jack Osbourne and Holly Willoughby, the latter who is a really famous TV host in the UK. The show was moved from its primetime Saturday night slot to a Sunday morning graveyard slot due to extremely low ratings getting hammered by Doctor Who on BBC One. From what I gather the show was shit and even looked down by wrestling fans but was reading other UK TV forums and this often came up as one of the worst Saturday night programmes thread with folk saying "who wants to watch celebrities wrestling on a Saturday night" etc.
> 
> I'm still amazed WWE/wrestling was able to get a slot on FOX in the US considering its the fourth biggest TV network over there!


Agree with all that, mate.

Honestly, I had completely forgotten about "Celebrity Wrestling" on ITV! That never stood a chance. Even with the great Roddy.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I predict .29 - 725k this week.


----------



## Kentucky34

AEW would be lucky to draw 10k fans for their major shows. 

100k stadiums? Lol, no chance.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Chip Chipperson said:


> Don't bring logic into an AEW brag thread m8.


I just posted a headline that wasnt on here I'm not bragging or banging the drum for AEW here.Just wanted to see the reactions and boy this forum never disappoints LMFAO.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Kentucky34 said:


> AEW would be lucky to draw 10k fans for their major shows.
> 
> 100k stadiums? Lol, no chance.


Luckiest sons of bitches on earth apparently because they have beaten that 3 out of the 4 PPVs that they had crowds, 4 out of 5 if you want to count All In. 8500 on the only one that didnt, Full Gear.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

$Dolladrew$ said:


> I just posted a headline that wasnt on here I'm not bragging or banging the drum for AEW here.Just wanted to see the reactions and boy this forum never disappoints LMFAO.


you can set your watch by the replies


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

$Dolladrew$ said:


> I just posted a headline that wasnt on here I'm not bragging or banging the drum for AEW here.Just wanted to see the reactions and boy this forum never disappoints LMFAO.


We actually need some more positivity around here. Even the positive things somehow get manipulated by mentally challenged folks.


----------



## DaSlacker

Chip Chipperson said:


> I thought the English had a reputation for liking really good wrestling




The most successful feud and wrestlers of all time at the box office was a 6'6 50 year old with one move vs a 6'11 guy with one move.

When it got kicked off TV in 1988 the weekly television show had some really bad wrestling and goofy stuff AEW would veto. Then Ultimate Warrior was probably the biggest draw in the early 90's WWF boom.


----------



## TheDraw

How anybody watches this shit show along with the WWE today is beyond me.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> We actually need some more positivity around here. Even the positive things somehow get manipulated by mentally challenged folks.


Ah, so now if you're negative about AEW you're mentally challenged...


----------



## Strike Force

Not sure where all the heat is coming from. Cody is doing exactly what any executive in his position would and should do. If you’re besting the number one product in your field, you should boast about it, even if the numbers are extremely specific and borderline misleading. Doesn’t matter. Treat your product as a big deal and more people might sample it.


----------



## thisissting

I can believe this bt sport isn't mainstream in the UK. Leaving sky was a bad idea over here. I never watch nxt very rarely smackdown and raw and most ppvs but I watch all aew shows. Wwe is just too derivative and boring aew is different and more edgy. I would be fairly confident it has a decent following in UK as it will in Canada Europe Australia India and other countries. Real shame pandemic had ruined their expansion as they would have drawn well in all these places.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TKO Wrestling said:


> Luckiest sons of bitches on earth apparently because they have beaten that 3 out of the 4 PPVs that they had crowds, 4 out of 5 if you want to count All In. 8500 on the only one that didnt, Full Gear.


Yeah, that doesn't mean they'll do the same in the UK though. Keep in mind TNA couldn't hit 10k in the UK with the most popular wrestling show in the country and the likes of Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy etc.

How is AEW going to do 10k+ or the even more amusing 100k with 50 year old out of shape comedy guy Jericho, Mox, Cody, Kenny and Miro?


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, that doesn't mean they'll do the same in the UK though. Keep in mind TNA couldn't hit 10k in the UK with the most popular wrestling show in the country and the likes of Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy etc.
> 
> How is AEW going to do 10k+ or the even more amusing 100k with 50 year old out of shape comedy guy Jericho, Mox, Cody, Kenny and Miro?


OC more popular than Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy combined. Throw in John Silver and people will be paying tons just to buy a scalped ticket in the nose bleed sections of Wembley.


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, that doesn't mean they'll do the same in the UK though. Keep in mind TNA couldn't hit 10k in the UK with the most popular wrestling show in the country and the likes of Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy etc.
> 
> How is AEW going to do 10k+ or the even more amusing 100k with 50 year old out of shape comedy guy Jericho, Mox, Cody, Kenny and Miro?


Well TNA wasn't doing that in the US either no?
Maybe the current crowd is just more passionate and they'd be willing to travel from different parts of the UK.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> Well TNA wasn't doing that in the US either no?
> Maybe the current crowd is just more passionate and they'd be willing to travel from different parts of the UK.


TNA wasn't but we're not talking about that we're talking about the UK market. 

I can tell you here in Australia an independent promoter ran a show in Sydney called "The Elite Takeover" or something that featured like 5-6 AEW guys and he only drew 600 people. Cody and Brandi were the big stars for that event and only managed to fill a dinner club/RSL club auditorium. I'm sure many on here would think Australia would have 10-15 thousand for an AEW show also.


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> TNA wasn't but we're not talking about that we're talking about the UK market.
> 
> I can tell you here in Australia an independent promoter ran a show in Sydney called "The Elite Takeover" or something that featured like 5-6 AEW guys and he only drew 600 people. Cody and Brandi were the big stars for that event and only managed to fill a dinner club/RSL club auditorium. I'm sure many on here would think Australia would have 10-15 thousand for an AEW show also.


If what you're saying is true,

1- When was it?
2- Cody's star power has grown the more he's on TV
3- You could easily say a promoted real AEW show would draw x10 that, so 6k minimum, is 10K very hard to imagine? WWE got like 80K people no? I'm willing to bet there is a higher % of hardcore Aus fans than Americans within the wrestling community.

10K is achievable is both UK and Aus, depending on the time and how well they promote. To act like it's not is ridiculous.

And still TNA didn't hit 10K in the US with Hogan, Angle and co, yet AEW did with Cody and Bucks..


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> If what you're saying is true,
> 
> 1- When was it?
> 2- Cody's star power has grown the more he's on TV
> 3- You could easily say a promoted real AEW show would draw x10 that, so 6k minimum, is 10K very hard to imagine? WWE got like 80K people no? I'm willing to bet there is a higher % of hardcore Aus fans than Americans within the wrestling community.
> 
> 10K is achievable is both UK and Aus, depending on the time and how well they promote. To act like it's not is ridiculous.
> 
> And still TNA didn't hit 10K in the US with Hogan, Angle and co, yet AEW did with Cody and Bucks..


1. November 2018 so like 2 months after All In where hype for what eventually became AEW was high.

2. Cody was in NJPW at the time which is quite popular here in Australia. Mind you NJPW itself only drew like 1500-2000 to a live event here in Australia and that's with a high amount of Japanese people living here.

3. The only shows in the relative modern wrestling world that have done 10,000 people here in Australia were WCW, WWA (I think), WWE and the Hulk Hogan nostalgia tour. I think WWE even struggles to draw 10,000 people here these days.

Australia I'd say completely unrealistic, UK I'm still curious about but it'd be a surprise.


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> 1. November 2018 so like 2 months after All In where hype for what eventually became AEW was high.
> 
> 2. Cody was in NJPW at the time which is quite popular here in Australia. Mind you NJPW itself only drew like 1500-2000 to a live event here in Australia and that's with a high amount of Japanese people living here.
> 
> 3. The only shows in the relative modern wrestling world that have done 10,000 people here in Australia were WCW, WWA (I think), WWE and the Hulk Hogan nostalgia tour. *I think WWE even struggles to draw 10,000 people here these days.*
> 
> Australia I'd say completely unrealistic, UK I'm still curious about but it'd be a surprise.


in 2018 it was in Australia they drew 70K people, they had Taker/HHH main event, called it "Super-Showdown". That's the one I was talking about. If AEW can promote a big show, with Y2J, Mox, Cody and bring in maybe a couple of big available names (Tanahashi? Sting?), they can get a 10%-15% conversion rate and get to 10K people.

2 years ago I didn't give a shit about Cody Rhodes, I didn't watch NJPW, now i'm invested in his character and if he left AEW tomorrow i'll follow up on him. So yeah, his star power grew for sure, since then.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> in 2018 it was in Australia they drew 70K people, they had Taker/HHH main event, called it "Super-Showdown". That's the one I was talking about. If AEW can promote a big show, with Y2J, Mox, Cody and bring in maybe a couple of big available names (Tanahashi? Sting?), they can get a 10%-15% conversion rate and get to 10K people.
> 
> 2 years ago I didn't give a shit about Cody Rhodes, I didn't watch NJPW, now i'm invested in his character and if he left AEW tomorrow i'll follow up on him. So yeah, his star power grew for sure, since then.


Yeah, they drew 70k but it was a PPV for the WWE Network (I watched it live on the Network) and it was absolutely loaded with stars. Triple H, Cena, Undertaker, Kane, Michaels, Ronda Rousey, The Shield, Daniel Bryan, Bellas, AJ, Joe, Charlotte, Becky, New Day PLUS the emotional (For me at least) homecoming of The Iiconics and Buddy Murphy. Australian's are very into the whole "Local making it big" thing and to be honest the only reason I watched live is because Billie Kay who I'd watched wrestle in front of 100 people was coming home to wrestle on this gigantic show.

Also, we'd been getting the WWE for 15 years at that point regularly and people always had wanted this big event. When it was announced people travelled from all over the country (And New Zealand) to come and see it. The Victorian government got behind it, the media campaign was massive, every major radio show, tv show etc were talking about it and if I recall correctly even the national news mentioned it.

NJPW brought over all of The Elite in 2018 (Cody, Bucks, Kenny) and I think Sydney had 1500-2000 and then came back a year later to 900 without them so it's probably safe to say those four are good for a thousand people. Jericho and Moxley maybe a couple thousand more with the rest of the roster and the AEW name (Keep in mind it doesn't air here) attracting 1000-1500 or so. 3000-4000 would be my estimate on an AEW show here in Australia.

Even loaded up with special guests I think they'd struggle to hit 5000. Sting would be a draw but you're already getting the people who know him with Jericho. Tanahashi and Okada were out here last year and were on the mentioned 900 people in Sydney show.

Gotta keep in mind here in Australia we had Jushin Liger in his international retirement match and he drew 350-400 people. The people here know the WWE and then it's a massive gap before anything else.


----------



## AthleticGirth

Good numbers for Dynamite - they should shout about it from the rooftop. Smackdown and Raw highlights are shown on free UK TV and draw tiny numbers and Impact is a shadow of how popular it used to be on Bravo. 

People subscribe to BT for the Premier League and Champions League, not wrestliing.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

thisissting said:


> I can believe this bt sport isn't mainstream in the UK. Leaving sky was a bad idea over here. I never watch nxt very rarely smackdown and raw and most ppvs but I watch all aew shows. Wwe is just too derivative and boring aew is different and more edgy. I would be fairly confident it has a decent following in UK as it will in Canada Europe Australia India and other countries. Real shame pandemic had ruined their expansion as they would have drawn well in all these places.


I run a wrestling company and apart from the occasional AEW shirt in the crowd nobody has ever mentioned AEW to me. It's always "When are you guys bringing in a former WWE guy?" not "When are you guys bringing in Sammy Guevara?"


----------



## AthleticGirth

DaSlacker said:


> The most successful feud and wrestlers of all time at the box office was a 6'6 50 year old with one move vs a 6'11 guy with one move.
> 
> When it got kicked off TV in 1988 the weekly television show had some really bad wrestling and goofy stuff AEW would veto. Then Ultimate Warrior was probably the biggest draw in the early 90's WWF boom.


Haystacks and Daddy headlined Wembley and what not but Jackie Pallo and Mick McManus drew more fans and more money over a longer period of time.

88 World of Sport was a sad state, and the promoters gave that cigar chomping twat Michael Grade the excuse he wanted. If only Max Crabtree had invested the money in building stars and improving the production.


----------



## DaSlacker

AthleticGirth said:


> Haystacks and Daddy headlined Wembley and what not but Jackie Pallo and Mick McManus drew more fans and more money over a longer period of time.
> 
> 88 World of Sport was a sad state, and the promoters gave that cigar chomping twat Michael Grade the excuse he wanted. If only Max Crabtree had invested the money in building stars and improving the production.


That's true, maybe I'm being a bit harsh on the scene. i just feel like a lot of non Brits look at the Bulldod, Rocco, Fit Finlay etc and think 'what great taste'. When like in America the masses were attracted to the lowbrow stuff.

Apparently even '88 WoS, when moved to a dinner time slot, was doing better numbers than the ITV soaps are in 2020.

Both Crabtree and McMahon missed a golden opportunity in late 1986.Max needed investment and as you say, higher production values. WWF was about to gain coverage on WoS. Had they came to some kind of working agreement (i.e Stampede, Montreal) and moderate investment, Joint Promotions could have had a new lease of life and Vince could have started his European expansion both earlier and with a much bigger audience than early Sky.


----------



## the_flock

imthegame19 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317854855990595584


Some massive overreaching there. WWE is on a premium ppv channel and still get half the viewers that AEW gets on a free to air channel. If WWE was on a free to air channel, you would be looking at around 2 million viewers. 

I know a big wrestling community here in the UK and literally none of them watch AEW. A few watched in the beginning, but gave up. More of them watch British wrestling than American.


----------



## the_flock

taker1986 said:


> The UK is currently in the peak of the 2nd wave of corona. I think 2022 is a more realistic time for a UK show.
> 
> That being said I think when they finally manage to come over here they should be super ambitious and try and book Wembley stadium. With the large and growing fanbase in the UK and the anticipation for AEWs first show outside of North America, they could absolutely sell out Wembley for a PPV


No they really couldn't. They would be lucky to sell out Ally Pally.


----------



## DaSlacker

the_flock said:


> Some massive overreaching there. WWE is on a premium ppv channel and still get half the viewers that AEW gets on a free to air channel. If WWE was on a free to air channel, you would be looking at around 2 million viewers.
> 
> I know a big wrestling community here in the UK and literally none of them watch AEW. A few watched in the beginning, but gave up. More of them watch British wrestling than American.


They're on a free to air channel. Delayed and 1 hour versions, but Raw and SmackDown are on Channel 5 at about 11qm on a weekend. Either way, the wouldn't get 2 million viewers even if they showed them live or on ITV4 the next night. It would be 250,000 viewers at the most. Neighbours and Home and Away don't even reach 900,000 viewers. Heat back in 2000 was something like 1.5 million.


----------



## DaSlacker

the_flock said:


> No they really couldn't. They would be lucky to sell out Ally Pally.


This I agree with. When SummerSlam 1992 happened you could sense how red hot US wrestling was. Generally with 6 y.o to 15 y.o kids, who had been pulled into the fad by their school friends or brother/sister. Plus enough adults who lived through the British wrestling boom were on board with it for a year or two.

AEW is different. It's really mostly pulling in wrestling fans that were already there or a minority of kids who have been introduced to WWE by their parents in the past decade.


----------



## Not Lying

I posted this in another thread.

I'm thinking of doing this weekly and then post the monthly results.










Source: 411MANIA | Ratings Breakdown For This Week’s Episodes of NXT and AEW Dynamite

i'm thinking of doing this weekly, track each wrestlers' Q they appear in, and what happened in it. We all know it's not going to be accurate (for example, I include DMD's 3min segment, but am gona exclude Archer/Moxley brawling for 1min? why? because it's my rules and it's already hard to make this adjustment to min by min 😂 (i ain't watching each segment min by min to see how much commercial was in it or whatnot).

Now, in any case, I will take any suggestions into consideration.
I'll work a bit more on the model on the weekend to optimize and automate it for when wrestlers appear in different quarters.



Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, they drew 70k but it was a PPV for the WWE Network (I watched it live on the Network) and it was absolutely loaded with stars. Triple H, Cena, Undertaker, Kane, Michaels, Ronda Rousey, The Shield, Daniel Bryan, Bellas, AJ, Joe, Charlotte, Becky, New Day PLUS the emotional (For me at least) homecoming of The Iiconics and Buddy Murphy. Australian's are very into the whole "Local making it big" thing and to be honest the only reason I watched live is because Billie Kay who I'd watched wrestle in front of 100 people was coming home to wrestle on this gigantic show.
> 
> Also, we'd been getting the WWE for 15 years at that point regularly and people always had wanted this big event. When it was announced people travelled from all over the country (And New Zealand) to come and see it. The Victorian government got behind it, the media campaign was massive, every major radio show, tv show etc were talking about it and if I recall correctly even the national news mentioned it.
> 
> NJPW brought over all of The Elite in 2018 (Cody, Bucks, Kenny) and I think Sydney had 1500-2000 and then came back a year later to 900 without them so it's probably safe to say those four are good for a thousand people. Jericho and Moxley maybe a couple thousand more with the rest of the roster and the AEW name (Keep in mind it doesn't air here) attracting 1000-1500 or so. 3000-4000 would be my estimate on an AEW show here in Australia.
> 
> Even loaded up with special guests I think they'd struggle to hit 5000. Sting would be a draw but you're already getting the people who know him with Jericho. Tanahashi and Okada were out here last year and were on the mentioned 900 people in Sydney show.
> 
> Gotta keep in mind here in Australia we had Jushin Liger in his international retirement match and he drew 350-400 people. The people here know the WWE and then it's a massive gap before anything else.


You know your market more I would, All I'm saying is you are heavily discounting how much The Elite's popularity grew in 2 years, how many Aus fans are watching via different channels, people that would be willing to travel from New Zealand...

If WWE can draw 70K, I'm willing to bet AEW can get 10-15% of that. We'll find out in 2 years ^^


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> If what you're saying is true,
> 
> 1- When was it?
> 2- Cody's star power has grown the more he's on TV
> 3- You could easily say a promoted real AEW show would draw x10 that, so 6k minimum, is 10K very hard to imagine? WWE got like 80K people no? I'm willing to bet there is a higher % of hardcore Aus fans than Americans within the wrestling community.
> 
> 10K is achievable is both UK and Aus, depending on the time and how well they promote. To act like it's not is ridiculous.
> 
> And still TNA didn't hit 10K in the US with Hogan, Angle and co, yet AEW did with Cody and Bucks..


Inherent in that last paragraph is the idea that Cody and The Bucks are comparable to Hogan and Angle. What it should really tell you is how fabricated this “fervour” for wrestling is.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> Inherent in that last paragraph is the idea that Cody and The Bucks are comparable to Hogan and Angle. What it should really tell you is how fabricated this “fervour” for wrestling is.


Nah it's just that stars get their drawing power diminished overtime. Angle had been 5 years in TNA, and Hogan was cancer to real TNA fans.
It's not like anyone is saying Cody/Bucks > Peak Hogan/Angle. 2011 Angle/Hogan weren't much.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Definition of Technician said:


> I posted this in another thread.
> 
> I'm thinking of doing this weekly and then post the monthly results.
> 
> View attachment 92247
> 
> 
> Source: 411MANIA | Ratings Breakdown For This Week’s Episodes of NXT and AEW Dynamite
> 
> i'm thinking of doing this weekly, track each wrestlers' Q they appear in, and what happened in it. We all know it's not going to be accurate (for example, I include DMD's 3min segment, but am gona exclude Archer/Moxley brawling for 1min? why? because it's my rules and it's already hard to make this adjustment to min by min 😂 (i ain't watching each segment min by min to see how much commercial was in it or whatnot).
> 
> Now, in any case, I will take any suggestions into consideration.
> I'll work a bit more on the model on the weekend to optimize and automate it for when wrestlers appear in different quarters.
> 
> 
> 
> You know your market more I would, All I'm saying is you are heavily discounting how much The Elite's popularity grew in 2 years, how many Aus fans are watching via different channels, people that would be willing to travel from New Zealand...
> 
> If WWE can draw 70K, I'm willing to bet AEW can get 10-15% of that. We'll find out in 2 years ^^


I’d be interested in this brother.


----------



## Pippen94

Aew would sell out arenas in UK & Australia. Some ppl here have made bad predictions in past but surely wouldn't bet against this


----------



## Cult03

They absolutely wouldn't sell out in Australia. Who would be the draw? They're not even on TV here for fucks sake


----------



## omaroo

They would struggle to sell out 02 and Wembley arena here in UK.

Apart from Jericho and to a certain extent moxley only major stars they have.


----------



## thisissting

Chip Chipperson said:


> I run a wrestling company and apart from the occasional AEW shirt in the crowd nobody has ever mentioned AEW to me. It's always "When are you guys bringing in a former WWE guy?" not "When are you guys bringing in Sammy Guevara?"


Which company do you run? I doubt you have been doing many shows in the last 8 months and aew have only been around 4 months prior hardly a fair comparison to wwe been around 40 years or whatever. If crowds has been around all year I'd be willing to bet you would see more moxley or jericho shirts than rollins or Orton unless you have a pg audience full of kids. And don't kid yourself you would jump at the chance to book Sammy mox jericho miro spears omega pac for any of your shows I doubt you have anyone of bigger name in a UK show. Wwe have been shit for years now only kids watch them in the UK. Aew has something a bit different have done well in their first year especially coping with a pandemic when other shows have given up like roh or gone to shit like wwe.


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> They absolutely wouldn't sell out in Australia. Who would be the draw? They're not even on TV here for fucks sake


Aew were selling out arenas before it got TV. 
In 2018 NJPW got 3,400 without anywhere near profile


----------



## Pippen94

thisissting said:


> Which company do you run? I doubt you have been doing many shows in the last 8 months and aew have only been around 4 months prior hardly a fair comparison to wwe been around 40 years or whatever. If crowds has been around all year I'd be willing to bet you would see more moxley or jericho shirts than rollins or Orton unless you have a pg audience full of kids. And don't kid yourself you would jump at the chance to book Sammy mox jericho miro spears omega pac for any of your shows I doubt you have anyone of bigger name in a UK show. Wwe have been shit for years now only kids watch them in the UK. Aew has something a bit different have done well in their first year especially coping with a pandemic when other shows have given up like roh or gone to shit like wwe.


He runs hobby show one day a week


----------



## Pippen94

omaroo said:


> They would struggle to sell out 02 and Wembley arena here in UK.
> 
> Apart from Jericho and to a certain extent moxley only major stars they have.


Aew will sellout Craven Cottage


----------



## thisissting

Pippen94 said:


> He runs hobby show one day a week


Wtf is that?! Stick one of the shows on here and we can all review it and see how good it is. Seeing as he shits on everything in sight I expect his shows to be flawless.


----------



## Erik.

Pippen94 said:


> Aew will sellout Craven Cottage


Easily.


----------



## thisissting

I reckon with a decent build aew could easily sell 10,000 tickets in Glasgow Manchester and London.


----------



## Aedubya

thisissting said:


> I reckon with a decent build aew could easily sell 10,000 tickets in Glasgow Manchester and London.


Each night
No doubt


----------



## The Wood

The UK fans might travel for one show. You’re not going to sell out a tour because you’ll be expecting too much of the fans.


----------



## thisissting

The Wood said:


> The UK fans might travel for one show. You’re not going to sell out a tour because you’ll be expecting too much of the fans.


Nonsense Scottish fans will easy sell Glasgow, London can sell no problem and you could probably sell Manchester. Most fans are local within 50 miles I would say at most. I'm in Aberdeen Scotland and we easy sell 5000-10000 for a house wwe show. So these bigger cities would no bother sell. I'd probably do Fulham, Glasgow and maybe Dublin for a first tour not try too much. They don't need to bother with o2 in London as they have 25000 stadium free to use at Fulham.


----------



## 3venflow

London, Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow could be four sold out shows in densely populated areas if they don't go over the top with arena size.


----------



## Kentucky34

The problem with AEW is that it only appeals to a passionate but tiny audience. 

I think they will carry on for a few more years until their viewership figures drop below 500k. From there, they will slowly fade away, like TNA did. 

Sad.


----------



## The Wood

Kentucky34 said:


> The problem with AEW is that it only appeals to a passionate but tiny audience.
> 
> I think they will carry on for a few more years until their viewership figures drop below 500k. From there, they will slowly fade away, like TNA did.
> 
> Sad.


This is exactly what is going to happen. You’re seeing the beginning of the end with the second show. It’s going to hurt Dynamite’s audience somewhat (overexposure, preferred viewing, etc.). Does anyone think that more demand on the audience is going to _help_ them?

That is going to make them panic. We’ve seen how seriously they take losing in viewership to NXT. They’ll freak out, throw more out there, start hitting panic buttons. Eventually the Dynamite move will happen and WWE will actually counterprogram them when they’re not fresh and that will kill them.

I predict the big blow to AEW is going to be them moving expecting an increase, only for them to end up losing even some of their loyal fans. The idea will be that AEW on a Tuesday should get 1 million people, only for it to get 500k. And the network executive who decided that is going to be embarrassed as shit and take it out on them.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> This is exactly what is going to happen. You’re seeing the beginning of the end with the second show. It’s going to hurt Dynamite’s audience somewhat (overexposure, preferred viewing, etc.). Does anyone think that more demand on the audience is going to _help_ them?
> 
> That is going to make them panic. We’ve seen how seriously they take losing in viewership to NXT. They’ll freak out, throw more out there, start hitting panic buttons. Eventually the Dynamite move will happen and WWE will actually counterprogram them when they’re not fresh and that will kill them.
> 
> I predict the big blow to AEW is going to be them moving expecting an increase, only for them to end up losing even some of their loyal fans. The idea will be that AEW on a Tuesday should get 1 million people, only for it to get 500k. And the network executive who decided that is going to be embarrassed as shit and take it out on them.


Lol, you predicted company wouldn't last one year & last week was anniversary show. Keep them coming...


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Lol, you predicted company wouldn't last one year & last week was anniversary show. Keep them coming...


No I didn’t. You are lying. I predicted that the dream would be over — as in the right fees wouldn’t come. And they didn’t. Not in a big enough way to “Change the World” (and boy did AEW step away from that line).

This is my actual prediction: A TNT executive gets the idea that AEW would make them way more ad revenue unopposed. AEW are too stupid to see Vince McMahon’s future moves. AEW moves and WWE goes after them hard. Rey Mysterio vs. Ricochet, Daniel Bryan vs. Drew Gulak, Mercedes Martinez vs. Toni Storm, Cesaro & Nakamura vs. Usos, Brock Lesnar vs. Samoa Joe, Rock on the show hard. WWE not only does over 2 million viewers for this new property, but they capture the floaters AEW expects and even cuts into their hardcore audience. AEW gets about 500k viewers and WWE beats them by several whole audiences. TNT was expecting an increase and they go from barely edging out their former competition to being destroyed by something several times larger.

If AEW wants to survive, let alone thrive, they need to make sure they stay linked to NXT. Ironically, people think the very opposite to this. Fascinating world.

And it’s incredible that Vince McMahon has pulled this off. Is he an idiosyncratic man? Absolutely. But the fact that he runs a virtual monopoly over something that should be a licence to print money is just so very interesting. Without ANYONE talking about it (well, at least I haven’t seen anyone suggest this), he’s made his biggest competitor completely dependent on his third tier show. Fuck me, he’s a sadistic genius.

Tell me that I’m wrong about any of this. If AEW wants to get away from NXT, they’re going to find themselves smack-bang against bigger competition now that they’re not fresh. And tell me that people aren’t going to watch Daniel Bryan wrestle over Chris Jericho fall into orange juice, lol. AEW can only exist in a world where they are barely beating NXT. Fucking amazing.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Wood said:


> This is exactly what is going to happen. You’re seeing the beginning of the end with the second show. It’s going to hurt Dynamite’s audience somewhat (overexposure, preferred viewing, etc.). Does anyone think that more demand on the audience is going to _help_ them?
> 
> That is going to make them panic. We’ve seen how seriously they take losing in viewership to NXT. They’ll freak out, throw more out there, start hitting panic buttons. Eventually the Dynamite move will happen and WWE will actually counterprogram them when they’re not fresh and that will kill them.
> 
> I predict the big blow to AEW is going to be them moving expecting an increase, only for them to end up losing even some of their loyal fans. The idea will be that AEW on a Tuesday should get 1 million people, only for it to get 500k. And the network executive who decided that is going to be embarrassed as shit and take it out on them.


It's the Thunder effect. When Thunder was introduced that led to the decline of Nitro and WCW never recovered from there. If AEW does get this second show off the ground running then expect the samething to happen to AEW. 

AEW are already chasing viewers away with their horrible booking from the misuse of MJF, Orange Cassidy's push, and their stop and go storylines. I think WWE could put NXT UK on Fox to counter-program AEW's second show and slice the audience down to 200 or 300,000 viewers and WarnerMedia sees that and panics and Tony Khan takes the heat for it. 

Oh I didn't even mention that WarnerMedia might move Dynamite to Monday to compete with Raw. Now thats another possibility here. If that happens thats the death kneel in AEW. You know all the pressure will be on AEW to deliver while WWE will have a low bar with no expectations. WWE would stack the deck against AEW like they did with TNA when they brought back Bret Hart and crush AEW.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> No I didn’t. You are lying. I predicted that the dream would be over — as in the right fees wouldn’t come. And they didn’t. Not in a big enough way to “Change the World” (and boy did AEW step away from that line).
> 
> This is my actual prediction: A TNT executive gets the idea that AEW would make them way more ad revenue unopposed. AEW are too stupid to see Vince McMahon’s future moves. AEW moves and WWE goes after them hard. Rey Mysterio vs. Ricochet, Daniel Bryan vs. Drew Gulak, Mercedes Martinez vs. Toni Storm, Cesaro & Nakamura vs. Usos, Brock Lesnar vs. Samoa Joe, Rock on the show hard. WWE not only does over 2 million viewers for this new property, but they capture the floaters AEW expects and even cuts into their hardcore audience. AEW gets about 500k viewers and WWE beats them by several whole audiences. TNT was expecting an increase and they go from barely edging out their former competition to being destroyed by something several times larger.
> 
> If AEW wants to survive, let alone thrive, they need to make sure they stay linked to NXT. Ironically, people think the very opposite to this. Fascinating world.
> 
> And it’s incredible that Vince McMahon has pulled this off. Is he an idiosyncratic man? Absolutely. But the fact that he runs a virtual monopoly over something that should be a licence to print money is just so very interesting. Without ANYONE talking about it (well, at least I haven’t seen anyone suggest this), he’s made his biggest competitor completely dependent on his third tier show. Fuck me, he’s a sadistic genius.
> 
> Tell me that I’m wrong about any of this. If AEW wants to get away from NXT, they’re going to find themselves smack-bang against bigger competition now that they’re not fresh. And tell me that people aren’t going to watch Daniel Bryan wrestle over Chris Jericho fall into orange juice, lol. AEW can only exist in a world where they are barely beating NXT. Fucking amazing.


Yeah, you did - @Garty posted a bunch of your failed predictions from last year. Can't wait for aew to sell out UK tour.

More you post the more apparent that you have head in the sand. Wednesday night with no competition saw both shows increase viewers - aew did 1 million average fro first time since 2019. Even impact went down against other wrestling show. To say show needs competition flies in face of all data & logic.

Wwe did stack show with main roster talent - it worked for one week & then became passé. Aew will always win youth demo against any wrestling product.


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> It's the Thunder effect. When Thunder was introduced that led to the decline of Nitro and WCW never recovered from there. If AEW does get this second show off the ground running then expect the samething to happen to AEW.
> 
> AEW are already chasing viewers away with their horrible booking from the misuse of MJF, Orange Cassidy's push, and their stop and go storylines. I think WWE could put NXT UK on Fox to counter-program AEW's second show and slice the audience down to 200 or 300,000 viewers and WarnerMedia sees that and panics and Tony Khan takes the heat for it.
> 
> Oh I didn't even mention that WarnerMedia might move Dynamite to Monday to compete with Raw. Now thats another possibility here. If that happens thats the death kneel in AEW. You know all the pressure will be on AEW to deliver while WWE will have a low bar with no expectations. WWE would stack the deck against AEW like they did with TNA when they brought back Bret Hart and crush AEW.


Tin foil hat territory


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> Tin foil hat territory


Give it up @Pippen94. This is terrible for AEW because they can't get Dynamite right so they won't get the second show right either.


----------



## thisissting

Some folk clearly want aew to fail and will shit on it at every step. Then they are left with wwe in their comfort zone again or obscure indy wrestling in school gyms. If you like wrestling at all you should want aew to succeed. Shitting on it at all times will not help. And to be fair there are folk like arn and tully in aew who have forgotten more about the business than any of the smart arse fans in these message boards.


----------



## The Wood

The WWE could go low with AEW’s second show, but there’s no real reason to. They did with NXT because they were smart enough to put the kid gloves on and not fan the fires of a revolution. This new show isn’t going to have the same vibe. They can do something “bigger” and it won’t accidentally help AEW by making them appear big league.

For example, it’s not hard to imagine WWE trying to take the ROH Pure Title tournament and doing their own mechanics show. Real simple pro-wrestling done right. If this show is on TruTV, let’s say it gets 400k viewers. The WWE could get double that with a show on Fox Sports 1. I think their subconscious goal would be to get more viewers than Dynamite, even though they’re on different nights.

AEW panics. Because that’s what they do. NXT stays roughly the same, but their TruTV show hurts Dynamite (more of the same or more hot-shotting. Panic moves, AEW to Tuesdays, WWE kills it.

It’s going to be interesting to watch. Brutal, but interesting. It’ll be interesting to see if Jericho even works TruTV. Is he going to put himself in the position where he could get killed by Lucha House Party or something? Does he care enough about being a star anymore? The show is going to be called “minor league” if Jericho doesn’t want to work it. Moxley and Cody aren’t smart enough, so they’ll be there. But it’s going to be a real eye-opener. And it’s going to break a few promises (“Not a b-show”). It’s going to make “expansion” plans seem frivolous. AEW loses Dynamite power too.

Bad, bad idea and they can’t see it. So there’s no way they see them eventually being counter-programmed when they move nights coming. That’s what kills them.

WWE ends up with Raw, SmackDown, a new show on USA on Tuesdays (which may even end up doing better than Raw because it won’t by run by Vince McMahon and Kevin Dunn), NXT and a new Fox Sports show that maybe isn’t around for the long haul all doing better than Dynamite and Crossroads (which gets cancelled). That’s four, maybe five shows doing better than AEW and all contributing to wrestling fatigue and making Vince McMahon richer.


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> Give it up @Pippen94. This is terrible for AEW because they can't get Dynamite right so they won't get the second show right either.


Well you just made up part about moving to Monday because anybody who follows news knows that's never been discussed. Stop making things up


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> Well you just made up part about moving to Monday because anybody who follows news knows that's never been discussed. Stop making things up


I didn't"make up" anything. I said WarnerMedia could move them to Monday. and that would kill them if WarnerMedia did that.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Yeah, you did - @Garty posted a bunch of your failed predictions from last year. Can't wait for aew to sell out UK tour.
> 
> More you post the more apparent that you have head in the sand. Wednesday night with no competition saw both shows increase viewers - aew did 1 million average fro first time since 2019. Even impact went down against other wrestling show. To say show needs competition flies in face of all data & logic.
> 
> Wwe did stack show with main roster talent - it worked for one week & then became passé. Aew will always win youth demo against any wrestling product.


Garty is a psycho troll who at one point posted things I said completely out of context. My line has always been that the Khans have the capital to run a sustainable wrestling promotion off the interest on one of their bank accounts. Don’t fucking lie.

I explained my reasoning and you still just say whatever the fuck you want. Try and follow this:

AEW can barely handle NXT. This is by design. AEW has a capped audience by several hundred thousand viewers because of this. That’s why you see the shows fluctuate by about 200k viewers. They will think that going unopposed is a good idea, but that’s when they’ll run into a bigger show with their capped audience.

For example, if they decide to move to Tuesdays to increase their numbers to 900k/1 million, that’s when the WWE puts on a main roster show featuring stars. AEW doesn’t see the increase they want. 600k hardcore fans, maybe, but WWE gets the 200k/whatever the base of a third main roster show is (and let’s be honest, that’s probably something like 1.4 million). You’re probably looking at a battle between a show doing at least double and a bit what Dynamite is doing. Can you follow that? NXT now goes unopposed and probably does 800k. Hardcore audience plus the floaters.

Can you see how this puts way more pressure on AEW and eliminates any future bargaining power they have with talent? WWE will own the top four shows in wrestling (as opposed to the top two, simply talking viewership). This is what happens when AEW goes to an “unopposed” night. They’re actually going to be counter-programmed now, because they aren’t fresh. NXT becomes the unopposed show, which raises it above Dynamite who find Titan competition (which they have NOT had, despite fanboy assertions that Triple H has been struggling to fight back tears with his programming every week).

If I wanted a job with Vince McMahon, I’d actually suggest to him that he has NXT go dark for a few weeks over Christmas. It’s a down time for wrestling anyway, so AEW probably only get a slight boost from it. Bring NXT back on Tuesdays for a few weeks in January. Royal Rumble time. NXT probably does 850k or so and AEW probably does 950k. But network executives get the idea that these shows would work better unopposed.

That’s when you smash them back together on Wednesday nights. Fanboys would laugh because the Meltzer myth would be “HAHA! WWE thought that taking a few weeks off would let them beat AEW! But look! The numbers are 850k to 650k! Yay AEW!” but what you’re really hoping to do is give an executive the idea that if AEW goes to Tuesdays it would do 1 million. An executive makes that decision and that’s when you do a big Tuesday show which helps out USA (makes them #1 on cable) and absolutely crushes Dynamite. Reality goes from AEW “expecting” 500k and getting 1 million to TNT expecting 1 million and getting 500k.

I can literally explain it to an AEW fanboy and they will say “Nuh-uh, unopposed is better,” which is why you think AEW will actually walk right into a trap like that.

Marathon, not a sprint.

I dare someone to tell me why that wouldn’t work. Biggest “risk” is gambling on a TNT executive moving the show. But it doesn’t even matter if they don’t take the bait really. It’s just if they do they’re dead.

And, as I’ve said, TNT is WAY more likely to move Dynamite permanently than WWE. NXT is just gravy to USA. Dynamite is TNT’s bread and butter.

Tell me I’m wrong, lol.




thisissting said:


> Some folk clearly want aew to fail and will shit on it at every step. Then they are left with wwe in their comfort zone again or obscure indy wrestling in school gyms. If you like wrestling at all you should want aew to succeed. Shitting on it at all times will not help. And to be fair there are folk like arn and tully in aew who have forgotten more about the business than any of the smart arse fans in these message boards.


No one wants AEW to fail. Expecting it to fail; watching it fail. Those are different things to wanting it to happen. And denying it happening, for that matter.


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

that mjf jericho segment had a huge impact nxt is going to flop tomorrow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1319097529695375365


----------



## The Wood

At this point though, I will find the schadenfreude in AEW flopping. Just in an “I told you so” kind of way. I want WWE to have competition and an alternative. AEW is not it.

ROH and MLW with more cash flow could be. The Rock starting his own promotion could be. Hell, WWE doing something adventurous on their could be. I kind of get goosebumps at the idea of them restarting WCW or even a Capitol Wrestling promotion. Vince has got all these resources, not everything has to be so fucking vanilla, and if he gets bored, there’s absolutely no reason he can’t say “Fuck it, Shane and Heyman can have this. Run it live on Thursdays. Take Brock.”

Argh, what could be.

That’s why I do kind of want to see the natural evolution of this thing play out and WWE to stomp AEW into the ground. It’d be more wrestling than the wrestling. My one hope is that it doesn’t scare others off from “taking on” Vince. He CAN be beaten. All you need to do is have a good pro-wrestling show that people would rather watch than whatever he’s got. And he can fight you with pro-wrestling. He’s got the best pro-wrestlers in the world. But even when he took the gloves off with WCW in 1998, you had people who just preferred the other stuff.

There’s room for two titans. There really is. You’ve just got to be good enough. If there are potentially 10 million US citizens who would make the time for wrestling, you can split a few million between you and make two wrestling entities valuable.

And I predict that is going to happen with The Rock. He’s going to do it. Come on, Rocky. He’s too big a star and linked to wrestling not to. And there’s too much to gain. Throw down $14 million between you and Dany and someone else to cover the rest. Walk into NBC and go network. You’re the fucking Rock. People are going to watch it. At least as many that watch Raw. Even when you’re not there. It could cover the entire production cost of Ballers or whatever.

When that happens, Vince will retire and hand things over to Triple H. He’ll be proud of his “boys.” Everything will get so much attention, Raw and SmackDown will get slightly better. They might take a few jabs at each other, but in the end they can probably come together and do giant cross-promotional shows on PPV. There’s absolutely no reason they couldn’t. Triple H doesn’t have the same mindset as Vince that way. THAT will change wrestling forever and a day.

Come on, Rock.

And I’m telling you, May 2021. Network upfronts. May sweeps. Ronda Rousey free agent. Brock Lesnar free agent. CM Punk free agent. He’s taking that call from Dwayne. Kota Ibushi’s deal comes in January. Cain Velasquez free agent and possibly still training. If they were the only talent announced, don’t tell me the internet doesn’t get broken. That feels HUGE. Like what AEW used to feel like back when it was all potential.

Everyone in AEW would be clawing to jump ship. What will be interesting is if Dave Meltzer reports it, haha.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> At this point though, I will find the schadenfreude in AEW flopping. Just in an “I told you so” kind of way. I want WWE to have competition and an alternative. AEW is not it.
> 
> ROH and MLW with more cash flow could be. The Rock starting his own promotion could be. Hell, WWE doing something adventurous on their could be. I kind of get goosebumps at the idea of them restarting WCW or even a Capitol Wrestling promotion. Vince has got all these resources, not everything has to be so fucking vanilla, and if he gets bored, there’s absolutely no reason he can’t say “Fuck it, Shane and Heyman can have this. Run it live on Thursdays. Take Brock.”
> 
> Argh, what could be.
> 
> That’s why I do kind of want to see the natural evolution of this thing play out and WWE to stomp AEW into the ground. It’d be more wrestling than the wrestling. My one hope is that it doesn’t scare others off from “taking on” Vince. He CAN be beaten. All you need to do is have a good pro-wrestling show that people would rather watch than whatever he’s got. And he can fight you with pro-wrestling. He’s got the best pro-wrestlers in the world. But even when he took the gloves off with WCW in 1998, you had people who just preferred the other stuff.
> 
> There’s room for two titans. There really is. You’ve just got to be good enough. If there are potentially 10 million US citizens who would make the time for wrestling, you can split a few million between you and make two wrestling entities valuable.
> 
> And I predict that is going to happen with The Rock. He’s going to do it. Come on, Rocky. He’s too big a star and linked to wrestling not to. And there’s too much to gain. Throw down $14 million between you and Dany and someone else to cover the rest. Walk into NBC and go network. You’re the fucking Rock. People are going to watch it. At least as many that watch Raw. Even when you’re not there. It could cover the entire production cost of Ballers or whatever.
> 
> When that happens, Vince will retire and hand things over to Triple H. He’ll be proud of his “boys.” Everything will get so much attention, Raw and SmackDown will get slightly better. They might take a few jabs at each other, but in the end they can probably come together and do giant cross-promotional shows on PPV. There’s absolutely no reason they couldn’t. Triple H doesn’t have the same mindset as Vince that way. THAT will change wrestling forever and a day.
> 
> Come on, Rock.
> 
> And I’m telling you, May 2021. Network upfronts. May sweeps. Ronda Rousey free agent. Brock Lesnar free agent. CM Punk free agent. He’s taking that call from Dwayne. Kota Ibushi’s deal comes in January. Cain Velasquez free agent and possibly still training. If they were the only talent announced, don’t tell me the internet doesn’t get broken. That feels HUGE. Like what AEW used to feel like back when it was all potential.
> 
> Everyone in AEW would be clawing to jump ship. What will be interesting is if Dave Meltzer reports it, haha.


Roh missed chance as bucks secured own big TV deal. Mlw doesn't have funds & will continue to develop talent for aew. Rock will focus on presidential campaign & has no time to start anything.
Given success of aew any new company will adopt similar style. Depending on his contract Orange Cassidy may be subject of bidding war with new start up


----------



## The Wood

With ROH having Sinclair and MLW having DAZN which wants to play, both could potentially make major plays for any stars that come up. It doesn’t necessarily mean they will get them, but landing Punk or Lesnar will give either leverage in securing a basic cable deal which puts them right in AEW’s ballpark.

The Rock just needs to be a name associated. He’s not running for President right now. He will look more impressive with a larger business/media portfolio. He just bought a defunct football league because it was fire sale price. There’s no reason he can’t start a wrestling promotion to scaffold his other projects.

Rock’s wrestling federation is pretty much guaranteed 2 million viewers. If NBC wants that (and they do) then they might have to cover Rock’s football league, of which there is probably less demand. Titan Games is always going to have a home with the potential wrestling tie-in. The Rock isn’t going to be there every week booking, cutting promos or drafting contracts, haha. He shows up, blesses that house, collects his slice of the revenue. Ratings start to dip? Can you make Tuesdays show and beat up a heel, Rocky? Sure thing.

There’s so much money in this idea. AEWho?


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Garty is a psycho troll who at one point posted things I said completely out of context. My line has always been that the Khans have the capital to run a sustainable wrestling promotion off the interest on one of their bank accounts. Don’t fucking lie.
> 
> I explained my reasoning and you still just say whatever the fuck you want. Try and follow this:
> 
> AEW can barely handle NXT. This is by design. AEW has a capped audience by several hundred thousand viewers because of this. That’s why you see the shows fluctuate by about 200k viewers. They will think that going unopposed is a good idea, but that’s when they’ll run into a bigger show with their capped audience.
> 
> For example, if they decide to move to Tuesdays to increase their numbers to 900k/1 million, that’s when the WWE puts on a main roster show featuring stars. AEW doesn’t see the increase they want. 600k hardcore fans, maybe, but WWE gets the 200k/whatever the base of a third main roster show is (and let’s be honest, that’s probably something like 1.4 million). You’re probably looking at a battle between a show doing at least double and a bit what Dynamite is doing. Can you follow that? NXT now goes unopposed and probably does 800k. Hardcore audience plus the floaters.
> 
> Can you see how this puts way more pressure on AEW and eliminates any future bargaining power they have with talent? WWE will own the top four shows in wrestling (as opposed to the top two, simply talking viewership). This is what happens when AEW goes to an “unopposed” night. They’re actually going to be counter-programmed now, because they aren’t fresh. NXT becomes the unopposed show, which raises it above Dynamite who find Titan competition (which they have NOT had, despite fanboy assertions that Triple H has been struggling to fight back tears with his programming every week).
> 
> If I wanted a job with Vince McMahon, I’d actually suggest to him that he has NXT go dark for a few weeks over Christmas. It’s a down time for wrestling anyway, so AEW probably only get a slight boost from it. Bring NXT back on Tuesdays for a few weeks in January. Royal Rumble time. NXT probably does 850k or so and AEW probably does 950k. But network executives get the idea that these shows would work better unopposed.
> 
> That’s when you smash them back together on Wednesday nights. Fanboys would laugh because the Meltzer myth would be “HAHA! WWE thought that taking a few weeks off would let them beat AEW! But look! The numbers are 850k to 650k! Yay AEW!” but what you’re really hoping to do is give an executive the idea that if AEW goes to Tuesdays it would do 1 million. An executive makes that decision and that’s when you do a big Tuesday show which helps out USA (makes them #1 on cable) and absolutely crushes Dynamite. Reality goes from AEW “expecting” 500k and getting 1 million to TNT expecting 1 million and getting 500k.
> 
> I can literally explain it to an AEW fanboy and they will say “Nuh-uh, unopposed is better,” which is why you think AEW will actually walk right into a trap like that.
> 
> Marathon, not a sprint.
> 
> I dare someone to tell me why that wouldn’t work. Biggest “risk” is gambling on a TNT executive moving the show. But it doesn’t even matter if they don’t take the bait really. It’s just if they do they’re dead.
> 
> And, as I’ve said, TNT is WAY more likely to move Dynamite permanently than WWE. NXT is just gravy to USA. Dynamite is TNT’s bread and butter.
> 
> Tell me I’m wrong, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one wants AEW to fail. Expecting it to fail; watching it fail. Those are different things to wanting it to happen. And denying it happening, for that matter.


I don't need to tell you that you're wrong - reality proves you are; without competition shows do better ratings.
People you dismiss like Meltzer was saying this all along & guess what they turned out to be correct?!
When you make prediction opposite happens!! But, keeping you're own grave.
There's no market for traditional wrestling - look around you companies are giving it away for free on YouTube to no avail. If you think a big money investor is going to come along & invest to such a product then you a ... Well you get picture. More likely we'll see aew knock off.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> I don't need to tell you that you're wrong - reality proves you are; without competition shows do better ratings.
> People you dismiss like Meltzer was saying this all along & guess what they turned out to be correct?!
> When you make prediction opposite happens!! But, keeping you're own grave.
> There's no market for traditional wrestling - look around you companies are giving it away for free on YouTube to no avail. If you think a big money investor is going to come along & invest to such a product then you a ... Well you get picture. More likely we'll see aew knock off.


Now you’re just saying I’m wrong without any proof. I’ve always said the Khans have the money to keep this thing going. Even my detractors are probably sick of hearing me say it.

When I talk about AEW dying, I am talking about interest in it or Shad Khan pulling the plug because he _chooses_ to. Never once have I said or suggested that the Khans are going to go broke running this. Get real.

I’m trying to think of a prediction I got wrong. I did think NXT would be winning in viewership by now. I blame NXT for its bland delivery and not so much any success on AEW’s part.

People look for gaps in the market. There’s a big gap for wrestling that wrestling fans are nostalgic for. Wrestling that doesn’t run people away (Variety survey on why they stopped watching).

You are using AEW’s existence somehow as evidence of success. AEW is therefore it is great and the form wrestling needs to take. People who say that a big league promoted seriously hasn’t been tried are correct. There’s been one promotion ever started by a billionaire. AEW is both the best and the worst. The idea that it is the limit is completely unfounded.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> With ROH having Sinclair and MLW having DAZN which wants to play, both could potentially make major plays for any stars that come up. It doesn’t necessarily mean they will get them, but landing Punk or Lesnar will give either leverage in securing a basic cable deal which puts them right in AEW’s ballpark.
> 
> The Rock just needs to be a name associated. He’s not running for President right now. He will look more impressive with a larger business/media portfolio. He just bought a defunct football league because it was fire sale price. There’s no reason he can’t start a wrestling promotion to scaffold his other projects.
> 
> Rock’s wrestling federation is pretty much guaranteed 2 million viewers. If NBC wants that (and they do) then they might have to cover Rock’s football league, of which there is probably less demand. Titan Games is always going to have a home with the potential wrestling tie-in. The Rock isn’t going to be there every week booking, cutting promos or drafting contracts, haha. He shows up, blesses that house, collects his slice of the revenue. Ratings start to dip? Can you make Tuesdays show and beat up a heel, Rocky? Sure thing.
> 
> There’s so much money in this idea. AEWho?


You're speculating on actions of people & companies you have nothing to do with. Never happen - but even if it does if they want to make money promotion looks more like aew than what you want.



The Wood said:


> Now you’re just saying I’m wrong without any proof. I’ve always said the Khans have the money to keep this thing going. Even my detractors are probably sick of hearing me say it.
> 
> When I talk about AEW dying, I am talking about interest in it or Shad Khan pulling the plug because he _chooses_ to. Never once have I said or suggested that the Khans are going to go broke running this. Get real.
> 
> I’m trying to think of a prediction I got wrong. I did think NXT would be winning in viewership by now. I blame NXT for its bland delivery and not so much any success on AEW’s part.
> 
> People look for gaps in the market. There’s a big gap for wrestling that wrestling fans are nostalgic for. Wrestling that doesn’t run people away (Variety survey on why they stopped watching).
> 
> You are using AEW’s existence somehow as evidence of success. AEW is therefore it is great and the form wrestling needs to take. People who say that a big league promoted seriously hasn’t been tried are correct. There’s been one promotion ever started by a billionaire. AEW is both the best and the worst. The idea that it is the limit is completely unfounded.


You're posting wild fantasies which have been disproven by REALITY & I'm just about done with you.
In just a few months aew gained +170$ million TV contract. Roh & nwa post their shows on YouTube for free with little support. If you had money which product would try to emulate??


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> You're speculating on actions of people & companies you have nothing to do with. Never happen - but even if it does if they want to make money promotion looks more like aew than what you want.


Of course I’m speculating. What do you expect me to do? Hack their fucking emails? What an odd point to make.

And if it looks like AEW I won’t watch it and keep waiting for the alternative that appeals to me as a fan. I don’t want more Vince McMahon WWE and I don’t want more AEW. Most wrestling fans are the same. There are millions of people who have switched off that are still alive and have reasons they cared and reasons they stopped caring. Market research can be done into that. AEW is obviously not the answer for these people.



Pippen94 said:


> You're posting wild fantasies which have been disproven by REALITY & I'm just about done with you.
> In just a few months aew gained +170$ million TV contract. Roh & nwa post their shows on YouTube for free with little support. If you had money which product would try to emulate??


The reality is that AEW was started with $100 million in capital and managed to sign two of the biggest free agents available and the most iconic commentator of a generation to lend his voice to the aesthetic.

AEW’s TV deal was initially announced before they had produced any content. This was the Khans’ connections. It got “increased” from production costs to the cost of production a bit later and doesn’t impress me. Vince McMahon generates as much in a quarter as AEW is going to generate from this entire deal (if it is seen out).

If I had the money, I would launch a promotion that would look like a WWE/AEW scale show, with the best talent available but produced content that sets it apart from its competitors.

The success is in finding a TV rights deal. This would cover the cost of your stars, who would be crucial to securing said TV deal. The biggest stars in wrestling right that are free right now are Brock Lesnar, CM Punk and Ronda Rousey in April next year. Tessa Blanchard as another woman to look at. Tenille Dashwood is overrated as a worker, but a good looking woman with familiarity to the wrestling audience. Jacob Fatu, Alexander Hammerstone and Kota Ibushi (for the smarks and women). Pay for it to get plastered everywhere. Don’t tell me that can’t get 900k on TNT lol. ROH and the NWA do not have that production nor those stars. It is dishonest to put them on the same platform as AEW and call their resources equal.

You pick the best talent available and do wrestling the way wrestling fans would enjoy it. That takes money that ROH has frustratingly not had. But make no mistake about it, if Sinclair broke the bank and made real plays for that talent I mentioned and got it on basic cable (which is a complete repurposing of it as a property, but never mind), I guarantee it would be doing better than AEW.

AEW is #2 by default. Nothing about its model or philosophy has defined its success. It is a bought position with Khan money, Jericho, Moxley and JR.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Cult03 said:


> They absolutely wouldn't sell out in Australia. Who would be the draw? They're not even on TV here for fucks sake


They could fill a small 2000-3000 seat arena I think based on Jericho, Mox, Rusev and the AEW name. Although that might be me being generous because I remember TNA in 2005 which was equally as popular with the smart marks coming here with Jarrett, Rhino (Fresh from WWE), Dudley Boys (Fresh from WWE), AJ, Daniels, Joe and a few other TNA people and only drawing 1500 in a 5000 seat arena. Economy was better back then and wrestling more popular.



thisissting said:


> Which company do you run? I doubt you have been doing many shows in the last 8 months and aew have only been around 4 months prior hardly a fair comparison to wwe been around 40 years or whatever. If crowds has been around all year I'd be willing to bet you would see more moxley or jericho shirts than rollins or Orton unless you have a pg audience full of kids. And don't kid yourself you would jump at the chance to book Sammy mox jericho miro spears omega pac for any of your shows I doubt you have anyone of bigger name in a UK show. Wwe have been shit for years now only kids watch them in the UK. Aew has something a bit different have done well in their first year especially coping with a pandemic when other shows have given up like roh or gone to shit like wwe.


In the past 10 months we've ran just the two. I had 2 booked for March, one for April, one for June, one for August, two for October, two for November and a Christmas show in December which would've taken us to 12. However, we were scheduled for a ring hire in March, two ring hires in April, ring hire in May so once COVID hit you can imagine I missed out on thousands from the wrestling business which was unfortunate but really the only out of pocket expenses was the promotion we did for the March show which got cancelled two days before due to COVID restrictions.

In regards to the names you've listed, yeah I'd probably take them all but wouldn't pay for them. Jericho, Omega, Mox and Miro would be significantly out of my price range (Miro would probably be the cheapest and I could see him wanting at least 4000 USD to appear), Spears I'd put on if someone just happened to bring him to me for free, Sammy is the same deal but I probably would pay to book PAC if he was within budget.

As my buddy Cult above was saying most people here in Australia don't know the AEW guys unless they're from WWE. Sammy is a talented guy but hypothetically lets say he lives in Florida. That's a 1500-2000 AUD flight (Pre-COVID prices), Sammy would probably want at least 1000 a match at this point, throw in hotel for a couple of nights that's probably 3500 dollars just to get Sammy in who would maybe draw me 10-15 extra customers.

For that same 3500 dollars I could bring in a few of my states really good local wrestlers who would draw me more than 10-15 people or alternatively I could recruit from Japan or New Zealand. Bad Luck Fale works indies here in Australia, Ultimo Dragon would come in for well under 3500, Masato Tanaka and even Tajiri would all come for under 3500 and draw more.

In regards to Sammy being more high profile than anyone here in Australia. I would say the most "famous" wrestler residing here in Australia is Orlando Jordan. I've met him a couple of times doing ring rentals and he's a really nice guy. Is he more famous than Sammy? I'd say yes but you may disagree.



Pippen94 said:


> Aew were selling out arenas before it got TV.
> In 2018 NJPW got 3,400 without anywhere near profile


Where did NJPW get 3400? They did 1000 in Melbourne at Festival Hall and Sydney had just a bit more. It would've been around 3400 if you're counting all dates.

Melbourne (1000), Sydney (1500), Perth (700), Adelaide (600)



Pippen94 said:


> He runs hobby show one day a week


You don't have to answer for me especially when the information is wrong. I don't run once a week I run once every 6-8 weeks although last year we averaged one every 5 weeks I believe.



thisissting said:


> Wtf is that?! Stick one of the shows on here and we can all review it and see how good it is. Seeing as he shits on everything in sight I expect his shows to be flawless.


I've actually admitted my shows aren't flawless, it's hard to run a flawless show because even if you go in with a plan, relay the message to people perfectly, tell them exactly what to do it doesn't always match what you had in your head because you're relying on other people who see things differently as well.

In regards to sticking one of my shows on here, it's been asked before and I receive about one PM a week asking me about doing that. I'd actually love to do it just to get some genuine feedback from you all because my shows don't really attract the "modern indy" style of fans instead I draw more families, old people who enjoyed wrestling back in the day and traditionalists. I've had modern indy style fans give my shows a try before and they absolutely hate them because I encourage my guys to build to stuff like flips and we build shows around violent encounters instead of dishing them out every week.

The problem is of course the minority. I've had people on here imply they'd rape my girlfriend for my opinions, I've had people on here angrily confront me on opinions and I really just don't think it'd be a good idea to post anything of mine here unless it was to someone I trusted.

I could definitely see myself posting something and a dude like Garty, Pippen or MontyCora (If he's here under an alt), Technical guy, DammitChrist etc Googling my information, finding out things like my address, name, partner and using it to harass me in the real world. I definitely don't need that in my life.

But yeah, you're not missing the perfect show man. If you like decent traditional booking with big boys (Generally) punching on with one another you'd probably love my shit if you could get past the lack of production etc. If you're an AEW guy and need a healthy dose of flips in every match you'd hate my stuff.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> They could fill a small 2000-3000 seat arena I think based on Jericho, Mox, Rusev and the AEW name. Although that might be me being generous because I remember TNA in 2005 which was equally as popular with the smart marks coming here with Jarrett, Rhino (Fresh from WWE), Dudley Boys (Fresh from WWE), AJ, Daniels, Joe and a few other TNA people and only drawing 1500 in a 5000 seat arena. Economy was better back then and wrestling more popular.
> 
> 
> 
> In the past 10 months we've ran just the two. I had 2 booked for March, one for April, one for June, one for August, two for October, two for November and a Christmas show in December which would've taken us to 12. However, we were scheduled for a ring hire in March, two ring hires in April, ring hire in May so once COVID hit you can imagine I missed out on thousands from the wrestling business which was unfortunate but really the only out of pocket expenses was the promotion we did for the March show which got cancelled two days before due to COVID restrictions.
> 
> In regards to the names you've listed, yeah I'd probably take them all but wouldn't pay for them. Jericho, Omega, Mox and Miro would be significantly out of my price range (Miro would probably be the cheapest and I could see him wanting at least 4000 USD to appear), Spears I'd put on if someone just happened to bring him to me for free, Sammy is the same deal but I probably would pay to book PAC if he was within budget.
> 
> As my buddy Cult above was saying most people here in Australia don't know the AEW guys unless they're from WWE. Sammy is a talented guy but hypothetically lets say he lives in Florida. That's a 1500-2000 AUD flight (Pre-COVID prices), Sammy would probably want at least 1000 a match at this point, throw in hotel for a couple of nights that's probably 3500 dollars just to get Sammy in who would maybe draw me 10-15 extra customers.
> 
> For that same 3500 dollars I could bring in a few of my states really good local wrestlers who would draw me more than 10-15 people or alternatively I could recruit from Japan or New Zealand. Bad Luck Fale works indies here in Australia, Ultimo Dragon would come in for well under 3500, Masato Tanaka and even Tajiri would all come for under 3500 and draw more.
> 
> In regards to Sammy being more high profile than anyone here in Australia. I would say the most "famous" wrestler residing here in Australia is Orlando Jordan. I've met him a couple of times doing ring rentals and he's a really nice guy. Is he more famous than Sammy? I'd say yes but you may disagree.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did NJPW get 3400? They did 1000 in Melbourne at Festival Hall and Sydney had just a bit more. It would've been around 3400 if you're counting all dates.
> 
> Melbourne (1000), Sydney (1500), Perth (700), Adelaide (600)
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to answer for me especially when the information is wrong. I don't run once a week I run once every 6-8 weeks although last year we averaged one every 5 weeks I believe.
> 
> 
> 
> I've actually admitted my shows aren't flawless, it's hard to run a flawless show because even if you go in with a plan, relay the message to people perfectly, tell them exactly what to do it doesn't always match what you had in your head because you're relying on other people who see things differently as well.
> 
> In regards to sticking one of my shows on here, it's been asked before and I receive about one PM a week asking me about doing that. I'd actually love to do it just to get some genuine feedback from you all because my shows don't really attract the "modern indy" style of fans instead I draw more families, old people who enjoyed wrestling back in the day and traditionalists. I've had modern indy style fans give my shows a try before and they absolutely hate them because I encourage my guys to build to stuff like flips and we build shows around violent encounters instead of dishing them out every week.
> 
> The problem is of course the minority. I've had people on here imply they'd rape my girlfriend for my opinions, I've had people on here angrily confront me on opinions and I really just don't think it'd be a good idea to post anything of mine here unless it was to someone I trusted.
> 
> I could definitely see myself posting something and a dude like Garty, Pippen or MontyCora (If he's here under an alt), Technical guy, DammitChrist etc Googling my information, finding out things like my address, name, partner and using it to harass me in the real world. I definitely don't need that in my life.
> 
> But yeah, you're not missing the perfect show man. If you like decent traditional booking with big boys (Generally) punching on with one another you'd probably love my shit if you could get past the lack of production etc. If you're an AEW guy and need a healthy dose of flips in every match you'd hate my stuff.


I don't expect you admit you got it wrong

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/7zd9i0



The Wood said:


> The reality is that AEW was started with $100 million in capital and managed to sign two of the biggest free agents available and the most iconic commentator of a generation to lend his voice to the aesthetic.
> 
> AEW’s TV deal was initially announced before they had produced any content. This was the Khans’ connections. It got “increased” from production costs to the cost of production a bit later and doesn’t impress me. Vince McMahon generates as much in a quarter as AEW is going to generate from this entire deal (if it is seen out).
> 
> If I had the money, I would launch a promotion that would look like a WWE/AEW scale show, with the best talent available but produced content that sets it apart from its competitors.
> 
> The success is in finding a TV rights deal. This would cover the cost of your stars, who would be crucial to securing said TV deal. The biggest stars in wrestling right that are free right now are Brock Lesnar, CM Punk and Ronda Rousey in April next year. Tessa Blanchard as another woman to look at. Tenille Dashwood is overrated as a worker, but a good looking woman with familiarity to the wrestling audience. Jacob Fatu, Alexander Hammerstone and Kota Ibushi (for the smarks and women). Pay for it to get plastered everywhere. Don’t tell me that can’t get 900k on TNT lol. ROH and the NWA do not have that production nor those stars. It is dishonest to put them on the same platform as AEW and call their resources equal.
> 
> You pick the best talent available and do wrestling the way wrestling fans would enjoy it. That takes money that ROH has frustratingly not had. But make no mistake about it, if Sinclair broke the bank and made real plays for that talent I mentioned and got it on basic cable (which is a complete repurposing of it as a property, but never mind), I guarantee it would be doing better than AEW.
> 
> AEW is #2 by default. Nothing about its model or philosophy has defined its success. It is a bought position with Khan money, Jericho, Moxley and JR.


Arm chair critic who thinks he can do better than a top rated show on cable each week, in spite of competition, with brand of wrestling that has little appeal these days!!! Keep fantasizing


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> I don't expect you admit you got it wrong
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/7zd9i0







__





NJPW Fallout Down Under Tour 2018 - Tag 2 « Events Database « CAGEMATCH - The Internet Wrestling Database


Internet Wrestling Database



www.cagematch.net





Cagematch says 1000 for Melbourne. Festival Hall only seats just under 2000 people.



Pippen94 said:


> Arm chair critic who thinks he can do better than a top rated show on cable each week, in spite of competition, with brand of wrestling that has little appeal these days!!! Keep fantasizing


ANYONE could. They are top rated because they're loaded with stars not because they're good.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Arm chair critic who thinks he can do better than a top rated show on cable each week, in spite of competition, with brand of wrestling that has little appeal these days!!! Keep fantasizing


Serious question: What makes Tony Khan any more qualified than me. I don’t have a billionaire dad, but besides that, we’re both just wrestling fans. Now he’s got a paid promotion. Cool?

I am willing to bet there are lots of fans that can book better than Tony Khan. There are lots of people who could promote better too. They just don’t have the opportunity. A lot of boot-lickers love using someone having the job as evidence that they definitely earned the job. Before becoming the President of the second biggest wrestling promotion in the world, Tony Khan had done absolutely nothing in wrestling.

Now that doesn’t mean he absolutely has to be an idiot either. But the suggestion that he can’t be is just whack.

If I got Brock Lesnar, CM Punk, Ronda Rousey, Tessa Blanchard, Tenille Dashwood, Alex Hammerstone, Jay Lethal, The Briscoes, MJF, Mance Warner, FTR, Jim Ross and a working deal with New Japan, I believe in myself enough to know I absolutely would smoke AEW and have Jericho calling me begging to jump over (but I wouldn’t take him at this point). I would probably be ashamed if it wasn’t in spitting distance of the three-hour borefest on Monday nights.

I absolutely would have made plays for AJ Styles, Bryan Danielson, Shinsuke Nakamura, The Usos, Gallows & Anderson and Randy Orton too. Someone I would know would surely know them and give them the iggy this deal is on the level.

Would I have gotten them all? Probably not. But if I can offer them seven figures to never take a Vince phone call again, it’s possible that some of them would take the deal.

But the truth is, if I had the money to start up my promotion, I probably wouldn’t need to be so involved, because I could pay people _who know how to do it_ to do it for me. I wouldn’t need to think of creative finishes for matches when I can get a guy like Cornette or Sullivan, or maybe even a Pat Patterson to do that for me, because, you know — they know how to. And I would be fronting it for wrestling’s sake — not my own vanity project. And the hundreds of millions in TV revenue would be nice too.

My booker would be in charge. Ideally we’d have the same taste in talent, and I wouldn’t let talent do whatever the fuck they want. And I’d probably give out incentives based on the performance of the promotion, so it’d be in the talent’s best interests to actually put on a show that does well instead of getting paid to phone it in and fuck about for their own entertainment.

I genuinely believe I would get way more than 900k viewers. I don’t think that’s hard when Raw — three hours of inauthentic action, stilted dialogue and illogical events — gets 1.6 million or whatever. Holy shit, I could do it standing on my head. And if I didn’t think so, I don’t know why I’d try.

I’d be going for the fan who is like me. Someone who wants to watch wrestling without their intelligence being insulted. And, as corny as it sounds, I’d want to put on a show that wide-eyed kids could give a shit about again. I’d also love to bring back the women and the lapsed fan instead of preaching to the choir.

We know why they stopped watching. I can defer to the experts — Cornette, Sullivan, Mantel, JR, etc. I can defer to the media studies. I can defer to my intuition, which I trust. I’m a smart fucking guy and have made it my hobby to engage with how wrestling works. I’d bet on me. And we know what those reasons are. One of us can lie about it, but we know it’s not because the core principles of wrestling that worked for hundreds of fucking years (to the days of fucking Greece, really), and still work when implemented in film, fighting, politics and even music draw stopped working specifically in wrestling. We both know that isn’t the case.

You’re taking a pretty poor performing wrestling show (for a wrestling show) and using its mere existence to make the argument for itself. Give me a fucking wrestling show to watch and put it on the same time as Dynamite’s sports entertainment and I know where my attention is going. And I‘m willing to bet there are lots of people like me.


----------



## bdon

A lot of African-American citizens were denied higher paying jobs for lack of opportunity to prove themselves capable. Were those of us white Americans inherently more qualified? Was Jackie Robinson NOT one of the best baseball players in the country prior to being permitted to play in the MLB?

I don’t think Khan is terrible, but I do believe there are plenty of other people who could write better, more compelling stories. He just gets to do so, because he is the white America in this story, denying those with a more natural gift for this medium. That isn’t to say Chip CAN do it, but the fact he has more experience doing so and impressed someone, somewhere enough to book shows for their smaller promotion where every dollar likely matters to the very good said owner puts on his children’s plate.... I’d assume it safe it Chip is probably a more natural booker. And there are likely hundreds more gifted than Khan.

/end rant on opportunity and socioeconomic class warfare


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> Serious question: What makes Tony Khan any more qualified than me. I don’t have a billionaire dad, but besides that, we’re both just wrestling fans. Now he’s got a paid promotion. Cool?
> 
> I am willing to bet there are lots of fans that can book better than Tony Khan. There are lots of people who could promote better too. They just don’t have the opportunity. A lot of boot-lickers love using someone having the job as evidence that they definitely earned the job. Before becoming the President of the second biggest wrestling promotion in the world, Tony Khan had done absolutely nothing in wrestling.
> 
> Now that doesn’t mean he absolutely has to be an idiot either. But the suggestion that he can’t be is just whack.
> 
> If I got Brock Lesnar, CM Punk, Ronda Rousey, Tessa Blanchard, Tenille Dashwood, Alex Hammerstone, Jay Lethal, The Briscoes, MJF, Mance Warner, FTR, Jim Ross and a working deal with New Japan, I believe in myself enough to know I absolutely would smoke AEW and have Jericho calling me begging to jump over (but I wouldn’t take him at this point). I would probably be ashamed if it wasn’t in spitting distance of the three-hour borefest on Monday nights.
> 
> I absolutely would have made plays for AJ Styles, Bryan Danielson, Shinsuke Nakamura, The Usos, Gallows & Anderson and Randy Orton too. Someone I would know would surely know them and give them the iggy this deal is on the level.
> 
> Would I have gotten them all? Probably not. But if I can offer them seven figures to never take a Vince phone call again, it’s possible that some of them would take the deal.
> 
> But the truth is, if I had the money to start up my promotion, I probably wouldn’t need to be so involved, because I could pay people _who know how to do it_ to do it for me. I wouldn’t need to think of creative finishes for matches when I can get a guy like Cornette or Sullivan, or maybe even a Pat Patterson to do that for me, because, you know — they know how to. And I would be fronting it for wrestling’s sake — not my own vanity project. And the hundreds of millions in TV revenue would be nice too.
> 
> My booker would be in charge. Ideally we’d have the same taste in talent, and I wouldn’t let talent do whatever the fuck they want. And I’d probably give out incentives based on the performance of the promotion, so it’d be in the talent’s best interests to actually put on a show that does well instead of getting paid to phone it in and fuck about for their own entertainment.
> 
> I genuinely believe I would get way more than 900k viewers. I don’t think that’s hard when Raw — three hours of inauthentic action, stilted dialogue and illogical events — gets 1.6 million or whatever. Holy shit, I could do it standing on my head. And if I didn’t think so, I don’t know why I’d try.
> 
> I’d be going for the fan who is like me. Someone who wants to watch wrestling without their intelligence being insulted. And, as corny as it sounds, I’d want to put on a show that wide-eyed kids could give a shit about again. I’d also love to bring back the women and the lapsed fan instead of preaching to the choir.
> 
> We know why they stopped watching. I can defer to the experts — Cornette, Sullivan, Mantel, JR, etc. I can defer to the media studies. I can defer to my intuition, which I trust. I’m a smart fucking guy and have made it my hobby to engage with how wrestling works. I’d bet on me. And we know what those reasons are. One of us can lie about it, but we know it’s not because the core principles of wrestling that worked for hundreds of fucking years (to the days of fucking Greece, really), and still work when implemented in film, fighting, politics and even music draw stopped working specifically in wrestling. We both know that isn’t the case.
> 
> You’re taking a pretty poor performing wrestling show (for a wrestling show) and using its mere existence to make the argument for itself. Give me a fucking wrestling show to watch and put it on the same time as Dynamite’s sports entertainment and I know where my attention is going. And I‘m willing to bet there are lots of people like me.


Great points, someone on here recently tried to argue that Tony would have a better education in the wrestling industry than me because he's got a big promotion and I'm regional at best but when I brought up the fact I started out as a referee, learned how to put the ring up every show, did the flyer drops and slowly started learning more and more such as production, booking, how to deal with venue staff etc and eventually became a promoter with close to 10 years on and off experience they suddenly stopped replying.

At an AEW card if the ring crew didn't turn up Tony wouldn't know what to do I guarantee it. He never has set a ring up in his life, he has never sat in the back of a car learning from a veteran how to book, he's never done a 5 hour trip to referee in front of just one paying customer (That happened to me once in 2008-2009).

This is why I say anyone can do what he's doing and some could even do it better. The fact you say you'd bring in the professionals and oversee things is totally the right idea and it's what I'd do as well if I suddenly lucked into 100 million that could be used on the professional wrestling industry. I'd then learn from these people because whilst I feel I'm a good regional promoter I'm not arrogant or stupid enough to think that I'm the man to write TV on an international level for an international audience but I do think I could learn that skill.




bdon said:


> A lot of African-American citizens were denied higher paying jobs for lack of opportunity to prove themselves capable. Were those of us white Americans inherently more qualified? Was Jackie Robinson NOT one of the best baseball players in the country prior to being permitted to play in the MLB?
> 
> I don’t think Khan is terrible, but I do believe there are plenty of other people who could write better, more compelling stories. He just gets to do so, because he is the white America in this story, denying those with a more natural gift for this medium. That isn’t to say Chip CAN do it, but the fact he has more experience doing so and impressed someone, somewhere enough to book shows for their smaller promotion where every dollar likely matters to the very good said owner puts on his children’s plate.... I’d assume it safe it Chip is probably a more natural booker. And there are likely hundreds more gifted than Khan.
> 
> /end rant on opportunity and socioeconomic class warfare


I own the promotion Bdon but I was the booker for another local promotion just before COVID hit so that should show that I'm at least half decent.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Great points, someone on here recently tried to argue that Tony would have a better education in the wrestling industry than me because he's got a big promotion and I'm regional at best but when I brought up the fact I started out as a referee, learned how to put the ring up every show, did the flyer drops and slowly started learning more and more such as production, booking, how to deal with venue staff etc and eventually became a promoter with close to 10 years on and off experience they suddenly stopped replying.
> 
> At an AEW card if the ring crew didn't turn up Tony wouldn't know what to do I guarantee it. He never has set a ring up in his life, he has never sat in the back of a car learning from a veteran how to book, he's never done a 5 hour trip to referee in front of just one paying customer (That happened to me once in 2008-2009).
> 
> This is why I say anyone can do what he's doing and some could even do it better. The fact you say you'd bring in the professionals and oversee things is totally the right idea and it's what I'd do as well if I suddenly lucked into 100 million that could be used on the professional wrestling industry. I'd then learn from these people because whilst I feel I'm a good regional promoter I'm not arrogant or stupid enough to think that I'm the man to write TV on an international level for an international audience but I do think I could learn that skill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I own the promotion Bdon but I was the booker for another local promotion just before COVID hit so that should show that I'm at least half decent.


Ah, you know I wasn’t lamenting your capabilities, merely making a point that even if you were what they claim, you have been entrusted by someone, somewhere to keep food on their babies’ table and a roof over their heads when every single dollar earned could be the difference in those things occurring or not.


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Aew were selling out arenas before it got TV.
> In 2018 NJPW got 3,400 without anywhere near profile


That was ROH/Chris Jericho and the bullshit fabricated CM Punk hype that led to nothing selling those shows out


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> That was ROH/Chris Jericho and the bullshit fabricated CM Punk hype that led to nothing selling those shows out


So imagine what company with profile like aew will do


----------



## thisissting

Chip Chipperson said:


> They could fill a small 2000-3000 seat arena I think based on Jericho, Mox, Rusev and the AEW name. Although that might be me being generous because I remember TNA in 2005 which was equally as popular with the smart marks coming here with Jarrett, Rhino (Fresh from WWE), Dudley Boys (Fresh from WWE), AJ, Daniels, Joe and a few other TNA people and only drawing 1500 in a 5000 seat arena. Economy was better back then and wrestling more popular.
> 
> 
> 
> In the past 10 months we've ran just the two. I had 2 booked for March, one for April, one for June, one for August, two for October, two for November and a Christmas show in December which would've taken us to 12. However, we were scheduled for a ring hire in March, two ring hires in April, ring hire in May so once COVID hit you can imagine I missed out on thousands from the wrestling business which was unfortunate but really the only out of pocket expenses was the promotion we did for the March show which got cancelled two days before due to COVID restrictions.
> 
> In regards to the names you've listed, yeah I'd probably take them all but wouldn't pay for them. Jericho, Omega, Mox and Miro would be significantly out of my price range (Miro would probably be the cheapest and I could see him wanting at least 4000 USD to appear), Spears I'd put on if someone just happened to bring him to me for free, Sammy is the same deal but I probably would pay to book PAC if he was within budget.
> 
> As my buddy Cult above was saying most people here in Australia don't know the AEW guys unless they're from WWE. Sammy is a talented guy but hypothetically lets say he lives in Florida. That's a 1500-2000 AUD flight (Pre-COVID prices), Sammy would probably want at least 1000 a match at this point, throw in hotel for a couple of nights that's probably 3500 dollars just to get Sammy in who would maybe draw me 10-15 extra customers.
> 
> For that same 3500 dollars I could bring in a few of my states really good local wrestlers who would draw me more than 10-15 people or alternatively I could recruit from Japan or New Zealand. Bad Luck Fale works indies here in Australia, Ultimo Dragon would come in for well under 3500, Masato Tanaka and even Tajiri would all come for under 3500 and draw more.
> 
> In regards to Sammy being more high profile than anyone here in Australia. I would say the most "famous" wrestler residing here in Australia is Orlando Jordan. I've met him a couple of times doing ring rentals and he's a really nice guy. Is he more famous than Sammy? I'd say yes but you may disagree.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did NJPW get 3400? They did 1000 in Melbourne at Festival Hall and Sydney had just a bit more. It would've been around 3400 if you're counting all dates.
> 
> Melbourne (1000), Sydney (1500), Perth (700), Adelaide (600)
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to answer for me especially when the information is wrong. I don't run once a week I run once every 6-8 weeks although last year we averaged one every 5 weeks I believe.
> 
> 
> 
> I've actually admitted my shows aren't flawless, it's hard to run a flawless show because even if you go in with a plan, relay the message to people perfectly, tell them exactly what to do it doesn't always match what you had in your head because you're relying on other people who see things differently as well.
> 
> In regards to sticking one of my shows on here, it's been asked before and I receive about one PM a week asking me about doing that. I'd actually love to do it just to get some genuine feedback from you all because my shows don't really attract the "modern indy" style of fans instead I draw more families, old people who enjoyed wrestling back in the day and traditionalists. I've had modern indy style fans give my shows a try before and they absolutely hate them because I encourage my guys to build to stuff like flips and we build shows around violent encounters instead of dishing them out every week.
> 
> The problem is of course the minority. I've had people on here imply they'd rape my girlfriend for my opinions, I've had people on here angrily confront me on opinions and I really just don't think it'd be a good idea to post anything of mine here unless it was to someone I trusted.
> 
> I could definitely see myself posting something and a dude like Garty, Pippen or MontyCora (If he's here under an alt), Technical guy, DammitChrist etc Googling my information, finding out things like my address, name, partner and using it to harass me in the real world. I definitely don't need that in my life.
> 
> But yeah, you're not missing the perfect show man. If you like decent traditional booking with big boys (Generally) punching on with one another you'd probably love my shit if you could get past the lack of production etc. If you're an AEW guy and need a healthy dose of flips in every match you'd hate my stuff.


There's a wealth of styles in aew lucha hard hitting flippy Japanese. It's a misconception to say they are like the bucks. I think it's a very diverse production to be honest. Personally I don't like the bucks but as heels that is fine and having ftr to contrast them is excellent. Someone like the butcher is Stan Hansen old school as well. 

Good luck with your shows I thought you were in the UK too given some of your comments. I don't know the audience in Australia by I know aew has a good fan base in UK.



Chip Chipperson said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NJPW Fallout Down Under Tour 2018 - Tag 2 « Events Database « CAGEMATCH - The Internet Wrestling Database
> 
> 
> Internet Wrestling Database
> 
> 
> 
> www.cagematch.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cagematch says 1000 for Melbourne. Festival Hall only seats just under 2000 people.
> 
> 
> 
> ANYONE could. They are top rated because they're loaded with stars not because they're good.


Beating nxt every week pretty much for a year with HHH putting them up Head to head is enough if a success for me. Wwe have also been forced to change their game up in their main shows some interesting stories and folk like Orton being less lazy. If they had not beat nxt they would have got shit on even more. Remember as you know its not easy to keep 2 shows a week running with no fans. Some of the reaction they would have got for miro Lee Hardy joining would have been great with full arenas. A lot of people don't like watching with no fans and I think they have done really well to survive even through these times. Successful action figure campaign the will grow merch sales and video game will sell well too. They do seem to like diversity with folk like sonny and nyla and I think this is really what old school people like cornette hate but that is more a reflection on their prujudices than anything else.


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> So imagine what company with profile like aew will do


They still don't have the profile CM Punk or WWE Jericho had. I know you guys don't like the Twitter follower comparisons (but will scream Youtube views matter) but Jericho has 3.6 million, Punk has 2.6 and AEW has 550k. AEW's profile, especially worldwide is amplified by you thinking WF or the IWC is a popular among wrestling fans. It's not.


----------



## The Wood

AEW got the hardcore fan to mobilise. That they were “selling out arenas before TV” should prove that. It was their potential that got people behind them. And that is why numbers were dropping when the shows went on.

When crowds come back they might do better as a result of boredom and people wanting to go out, but they’ll drop again, because this content is genuinely awful and not going to “Change the World.”


thisissting said:


> Beating nxt every week pretty much for a year with HHH putting them up Head to head is enough if a success for me. Wwe have also been forced to change their game up in their main shows some interesting stories and folk like Orton being less lazy. If they had not beat nxt they would have got shit on even more. Remember as you know its not easy to keep 2 shows a week running with no fans. Some of the reaction they would have got for miro Lee Hardy joining would have been great with full arenas. A lot of people don't like watching with no fans and I think they have done really well to survive even through these times. Successful action figure campaign the will grow merch sales and video game will sell well too. They do seem to like diversity with folk like sonny and nyla and I think this is really what old school people like cornette hate but that is more a reflection on their prujudices than anything else.


Oh fuck off, Cornette does not hate diversity. He doesn’t give a fuck if you’re black or gay. He just wants you to be able to work well and not embarrass his profession by looking like the average fan could whip you and not being able to throw a convincing working punch.

It doesn’t mean shit if AEW is “beating” NXT. I mean, it would look bad if they weren’t, but what ultimately matters is how much money they make TNT. If the USA Network is coming out ahead with NXT’s ad revenue and its low TV rights fees (let’s even say it is free for USA), then ultimately USA are going to be “happier” with the WWE than Turner are with AEW.

NXT is a PG show that doesn’t split its ad revenue with AEW. Let’s say NXT generates $100 million in ad revenue per year. AEW as a less recognisable brand without the WWE machine behind it and a TV-14 rating might only generate $80 million in ad revenue. This means NXT makes USA $100 million. AEW makes TNT $17.5 million. Is USA really upset that NXT isn’t charting on Showbuzz Daily?

WWE changed up their shows because all their other metrics, pre-pandemic, were getting hit. TV rights means they can offer stars a lot more money to stay and they can sign them to longer, fixed deals. This means they can invest in a guy like Drew McIntyre more readily, which is obviously what they were planning to do before this all hit.

It’s got very little, if at all, to do with AEW. It’s them being hungry for stars to boost their TV ratings and house shows so they can boost their stock price. With the XFL launching, people were obviously going to be looking at Vince McMahon and his main venture. The last thing he wants are articles being written in mainstream publications talking about how WWE was doing outside giant TV rights prognosticating on a grim future for TV.

THAT is what Vince McMahon gives a shit about and wants to bring his ratings and attendance up (ideally). Not AEW getting 850k viewers, $45 million in TV rights and selling cupcakes on PPV four times a year.


----------



## The Wood

It’s also telling that AEW have not signed a main event level star since Moxley and Jericho who were both “All In” _before_ their very first show. Not one.

CM Punk signed with FOX over them, which was basically getting into bed with WWE again. Everyone else has seen what this company offers and chosen the greener pasture. Every single person, from Randy Orton to Daniel Bryan to Jeff Hardy to Rey Mysterio (who worked All In).

They have never been as big as they were conceptually at the start. This is not a promotion reaching new heights.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> It’s also telling that AEW have not signed a main event level star since Moxley and Jericho who were both “All In” _before_ their very first show. Not one.
> 
> CM Punk signed with FOX over them, which was basically getting into bed with WWE again. Everyone else has seen what this company offers and chosen the greener pasture. Every single person, from Randy Orton to Daniel Bryan to Jeff Hardy to Rey Mysterio (who worked All In).
> 
> They have never been as big as they were conceptually at the start. This is not a promotion reaching new heights.


Easy - wwe is throwing kitchen sink at guys because of threat


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> Chip is a conservative white guy with born to rule mentality - you're way off


You missed the entire point of the post.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Easy - wwe is throwing kitchen sink at guys because of threat


AEW is trying to throw the kitchen sink at guys to go. Tony Khan admitted on Twitter that he was salty Orton used his AEW offer as Vince leverage. If Orton was on $2 million before (with his own tour bus), what do you think the AEW offer he took to Vince was? Smaller?

We know Jericho and JR signed on for the biggest deals of their careers. Obviously seven figures. Edge said he was offered $3 million. Matt Hardy made a weird tweet about how he was choosing more money for less work and creative freedom in AEW.

That $100 million doesn’t all go into Cody’s entrances.

And I’m not saying that they shouldn’t throw money at the stars. The money isn’t convincing the stars to go. Why? I think it’s because they know it’s got a ceiling. They’ve niched themselves and main event guys have main event instincts. And they usually have some ego about being seen as a star. The difference in star power between a WWE guy and an AEW guy is staggering. I think Curtis Axel had more Twitter followers than Kenny Omega last I checked. Now I love Curtis Axel, but he’s not exactly Mr. Charisma. And I guarantee you he is more recognised as a TV presence than anyone in AEW. It’s hard to fathom, but it’s true.

Most WWE fans probably think Chris Jericho has retired and that Dean Ambrose is simply taking a break from wrestling.

And how insulting to a guy like CM Punk, who given his frame and the buzz that followed him (that he had to cultivate to make himself a commodity in front of a few fans), had to be really fucking good — better than good — to get to where he wanted to be and _earn_ the big money for himself. He knows his struggles. Now you can train in your backyard, everything is okay, because wrestling is subjective, and earn six figures a few years into “professional” career. The fucking art to this thing is dead and they mock it.

I believe that’s why a lot of talent aren’t giving them a look. They are a sloppy shop and everyone knows it. The stars want to be stars in front of millions and be able to share a locker-room with people they know are legitimately trained and largely have good habits.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Chip is a conservative white guy with born to rule mentality - you're way off


Yes, I am a conservative white guy. I disagree with the born to rule mentality.

No idea what that has to do with Bdons post though, lol


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Serious question: What makes Tony Khan any more qualified than me. I don’t have a billionaire dad, but besides that, we’re both just wrestling fans. Now he’s got a paid promotion. Cool?
> 
> I am willing to bet there are lots of fans that can book better than Tony Khan. There are lots of people who could promote better too. They just don’t have the opportunity. A lot of boot-lickers love using someone having the job as evidence that they definitely earned the job. Before becoming the President of the second biggest wrestling promotion in the world, Tony Khan had done absolutely nothing in wrestling.
> 
> Now that doesn’t mean he absolutely has to be an idiot either. But the suggestion that he can’t be is just whack.
> 
> If I got Brock Lesnar, CM Punk, Ronda Rousey, Tessa Blanchard, Tenille Dashwood, Alex Hammerstone, Jay Lethal, The Briscoes, MJF, Mance Warner, FTR, Jim Ross and a working deal with New Japan, I believe in myself enough to know I absolutely would smoke AEW and have Jericho calling me begging to jump over (but I wouldn’t take him at this point). I would probably be ashamed if it wasn’t in spitting distance of the three-hour borefest on Monday nights.
> 
> I absolutely would have made plays for AJ Styles, Bryan Danielson, Shinsuke Nakamura, The Usos, Gallows & Anderson and Randy Orton too. Someone I would know would surely know them and give them the iggy this deal is on the level.
> 
> Would I have gotten them all? Probably not. But if I can offer them seven figures to never take a Vince phone call again, it’s possible that some of them would take the deal.
> 
> But the truth is, if I had the money to start up my promotion, I probably wouldn’t need to be so involved, because I could pay people _who know how to do it_ to do it for me. I wouldn’t need to think of creative finishes for matches when I can get a guy like Cornette or Sullivan, or maybe even a Pat Patterson to do that for me, because, you know — they know how to. And I would be fronting it for wrestling’s sake — not my own vanity project. And the hundreds of millions in TV revenue would be nice too.
> 
> My booker would be in charge. Ideally we’d have the same taste in talent, and I wouldn’t let talent do whatever the fuck they want. And I’d probably give out incentives based on the performance of the promotion, so it’d be in the talent’s best interests to actually put on a show that does well instead of getting paid to phone it in and fuck about for their own entertainment.
> 
> I genuinely believe I would get way more than 900k viewers. I don’t think that’s hard when Raw — three hours of inauthentic action, stilted dialogue and illogical events — gets 1.6 million or whatever. Holy shit, I could do it standing on my head. And if I didn’t think so, I don’t know why I’d try.
> 
> I’d be going for the fan who is like me. Someone who wants to watch wrestling without their intelligence being insulted. And, as corny as it sounds, I’d want to put on a show that wide-eyed kids could give a shit about again. I’d also love to bring back the women and the lapsed fan instead of preaching to the choir.
> 
> We know why they stopped watching. I can defer to the experts — Cornette, Sullivan, Mantel, JR, etc. I can defer to the media studies. I can defer to my intuition, which I trust. I’m a smart fucking guy and have made it my hobby to engage with how wrestling works. I’d bet on me. And we know what those reasons are. One of us can lie about it, but we know it’s not because the core principles of wrestling that worked for hundreds of fucking years (to the days of fucking Greece, really), and still work when implemented in film, fighting, politics and even music draw stopped working specifically in wrestling. We both know that isn’t the case.
> 
> You’re taking a pretty poor performing wrestling show (for a wrestling show) and using its mere existence to make the argument for itself. Give me a fucking wrestling show to watch and put it on the same time as Dynamite’s sports entertainment and I know where my attention is going. And I‘m willing to bet there are lots of people like me.


Statisically odds against you - 1000's of TV shows are created each year & most are canceled. Chances of not only being picked up but ranking among top shows on given night are highly unlikely. To assume you could easily achieve this underestimates aew's success but also shows lack of knowledge of TV industry.

Further, type of product you suggest is out of favor. It's clear you are somebody who lives in own head with little attention to what's going on in industry currently. Your openly suggest brands, celebrities & businesses make moves based on own imaginings which are not supported by quotes or current market.
Aew started with intention to recreate mid south style product however quickly shifted gears to modern approach which rates. No company would invest in style of wrestling with so little interest. Your approach would fail.

Big names don't guarantee success. TNA had biggest star of all in hulk hogan, but also angle, Foley, sting, Nash, hall, the Hardy's etc. Despite this company never created top ranked show. Aew exceeds TNA in every metric with far less star power. Relying on stacked roster for success doesn't work - ask Herb Abrams if he is still alive (same say he is).

Ultimately, you, chip, whoever have no real experience in the industry. To sit here & say categorically you'd make a better booker or do higher ratings is foolish - you don't know what it takes, what obstacles you'd face, you have no idea..


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Statisically odds against you - 1000's of TV shows are created each year & most are canceled. Chances of not only being picked up but ranking among top shows on given night are highly unlikely. To assume you could easily achieve this underestimates aew's success but also shows lack of knowledge of TV industry.
> 
> Further, type of product you suggest is out of favor. It's clear you are somebody who lives in own head with little attention to what's going on in industry currently. Your openly suggest brands, celebrities & businesses make moves based on own imaginings which are not supported by quotes or current market.
> Aew started with intention to recreate mid south style product however quickly shifted gears to modern approach which rates. No company would invest in style of wrestling with so little interest. Your approach would fail.
> 
> Big names don't guarantee success. TNA had biggest star of all in hulk hogan, but also angle, Foley, sting, Nash, hall, the Hardy's etc. Despite this company never created top ranked show. Aew exceeds TNA in every metric with far less star power. Relying on stacked roster for success doesn't work - ask Herb Abrams if he is still alive (same say he is).
> 
> Ultimately, you, chip, whoever have no real experience in the industry. To sit here & say categorically you'd make a better booker or do higher ratings is foolish - you don't know what it takes, what obstacles you'd face, you have no idea..


You just say something is out of favour without any evidence. A Mid-South presentation has not been attempted, come off it. You say because they didn’t try it then it couldn’t have worked. I call bullshit on that.

TNA is not in the same position as AEW and never was. Financially it just wasn’t there. Plus, TNA squandered its use of the names by being exactly what AEW is doing: “WWE-lite.”

Wrestling has always done well on television. The problem is it has been historically difficult to run at a profit as success depended on many different metrics that required a lot of attention. Vince McMahon, both intentionally and by happy accident with the death of cable, has cultivated a world where wrestling can now get giant rights fees. No company needs to exist based on attendance or merchandise or even PPV buys. Wrestling’s success is dictated by its TV rights fees. Something TNA couldn’t really benefit from when they were around either (although Viacom did help out).

It is more inherently lucrative to just own a wrestling show that has a good TV deal. Doing things like good attendance and PPV would obviously be gravy, and help for appearances, fan faith, talent’s trust, etc. But the money is in TV.

I don’t value your brain or opinion on anything to just take your word at my approach would fail. If I could put the following card on PPV:


Brock Lesnar vs. CM Punk
Bryan Danielson vs. Kazuchika Okada
Jacob Fatu vs. AJ Styles
Randy Orton vs. Alexander Hammerstone
Ronda Rousey vs. Tessa Blanchard
Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Kota Ibushi
FTR vs. The Briscoes
Jay Lethal vs. Rey Mysterio
MJF vs. Jungle Boy
Josh and Jon Fatu vs. The Von Erichs

I’m fairly certain I would be able to draw more than Full Gear is going to. And I’m sure the TV building them sensibly and logically (if I do say so myself), would do much better than 900k viewers. Maybe you wouldn’t like it? Cool. But I’m willing to bet it does better.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> You just say something is out of favour without any evidence. A Mid-South presentation has not been attempted, come off it. You say because they didn’t try it then it couldn’t have worked. I call bullshit on that.
> 
> TNA is not in the same position as AEW and never was. Financially it just wasn’t there. Plus, TNA squandered its use of the names by being exactly what AEW is doing: “WWE-lite.”
> 
> Wrestling has always done well on television. The problem is it has been historically difficult to run at a profit as success depended on many different metrics that required a lot of attention. Vince McMahon, both intentionally and by happy accident with the death of cable, has cultivated a world where wrestling can now get giant rights fees. No company needs to exist based on attendance or merchandise or even PPV buys. Wrestling’s success is dictated by its TV rights fees. Something TNA couldn’t really benefit from when they were around either (although Viacom did help out).
> 
> It is more inherently lucrative to just own a wrestling show that has a good TV deal. Doing things like good attendance and PPV would obviously be gravy, and help for appearances, fan faith, talent’s trust, etc. But the money is in TV.
> 
> I don’t value your brain or opinion on anything to just take your word at my approach would fail. If I could put the following card on PPV:
> 
> 
> Brock Lesnar vs. CM Punk
> Bryan Danielson vs. Kazuchika Okada
> Jacob Fatu vs. AJ Styles
> Randy Orton vs. Alexander Hammerstone
> Ronda Rousey vs. Tessa Blanchard
> Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Kota Ibushi
> FTR vs. The Briscoes
> Jay Lethal vs. Rey Mysterio
> MJF vs. Jungle Boy
> Josh and Jon Fatu vs. The Von Erichs
> I’m fairly certain I would be able to draw more than Full Gear is going to. And I’m sure the TV building them sensibly and logically (if I do say so myself), would do much better than 900k viewers. Maybe you wouldn’t like it? Cool. But I’m willing to bet it does better.


If aew run opposite with orange cassidy on card - aew win... & I can back that up with real numbers not your fantasies


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> If aew run opposite with orange cassidy on card - aew win... & I can back that up with real numbers not your fantasies


No you can’t. It’s literally never happened. And, as I said, I don’t trust your brain to just take your word for it.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> No you can’t. It’s literally never happened. And, as I said, I don’t trust your brain to just take your word for it.


Don't need to trust my word, brain or any part of me - just look at Wednesday nights


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Don't need to trust my word, brain or any part of me - just look at Wednesday nights


The show that does 800k on a good week and 650-700k on a bad one?


----------



## fabi1982

I predict 850 avg., but 1 billion viewers for the musical Q.


----------



## La Parka

fabi1982 said:


> I predict 850 avg., but 1 billion viewers for the musical Q.


All musical AEW episode?


----------



## fabi1982

La Parka said:


> All musical AEW episode?


Have them have a musical episode, where OC and Cody silently wrestle in the background and Jericho and MJF play "hair"


----------



## thisissting

The Wood said:


> It’s also telling that AEW have not signed a main event level star since Moxley and Jericho who were both “All In” _before_ their very first show. Not one.
> 
> CM Punk signed with FOX over them, which was basically getting into bed with WWE again. Everyone else has seen what this company offers and chosen the greener pasture. Every single person, from Randy Orton to Daniel Bryan to Jeff Hardy to Rey Mysterio (who worked All In).
> 
> They have never been as big as they were conceptually at the start. This is not a promotion reaching new heights.


Why would you sign cm punk or mysterio on big money to debut in front of no fans. We will see what happens when fans are back.


----------



## thisissting

Chip Chipperson said:


> The show that does 800k on a good week and 650-700k on a bad one?


It got 1 million on a good week recently so your only 200,000 out lol. I am sure tnt are absolutely delighted with those numbers.


----------



## thisissting

Jeez this guy Wood's posts are almost unreadable. Long rambling nonsense. Must have plenty of time on his hands to sit and write Thomas Hardy novels about wrestling!


----------



## Erik.

What was it last week? 830k?

I will assume base on that, and the usual up and down they get on average. This episode will get about >800k.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

omaroo said:


> They would struggle to sell out 02 and Wembley arena here in UK.
> 
> Apart from Jericho and to a certain extent moxley only major stars they have.


They would sell it out in minutes lol.


----------



## Not Lying

Man some pathetic comments in this thread already confirmed what I had thought and been saying. Most AEW "haters" are more "Tony Khan" haters because he has the money and resources to do what they only dream of doing, it's always jealous bitter people xD


----------



## thisissting

The Definition of Technician said:


> Man some pathetic comments in this thread already confirmed what I had thought and been saying. Most AEW "haters" are more "Tony Khan" haters because he has the money and resources to do what they only dream of doing, it's always jealous bitter people xD


Spot on my friend. A lot of jealous bitter people in the world.


----------



## Erik.

The Definition of Technician said:


> Man some pathetic comments in this thread already confirmed what I had thought and been saying. Most AEW "haters" are more "Tony Khan" haters because he has the money and resources to do what they only dream of doing, it's always jealous bitter people xD


... But..... But..... Khan was OUR LAST HOPE!!


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Don't need to trust my word, brain or any part of me - just look at Wednesday nights


What do you even mean? They’re struggling with NXT.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> What do you even mean? They’re struggling with NXT.


They literally destroy NXT every single week head to head, hell half the time NXT isn't even charting they have fallen so far down.


----------



## The Wood

thisissting said:


> Why would you sign cm punk or mysterio on big money to debut in front of no fans. We will see what happens when fans are back.


I wasn’t talking about doing it right now in a pandemic the US can’t get under control, haha. Why would yku



thisissting said:


> Jeez this guy Wood's posts are almost unreadable. Long rambling nonsense. Must have plenty of time on his hands to sit and write Thomas Hardy novels about wrestling!


Making fun of wrestling forum posters on a wrestling forum. Classic. I was home sick today. Haha, let’s mock him. Got no content? 



The Definition of Technician said:


> Man some pathetic comments in this thread already confirmed what I had thought and been saying. Most AEW "haters" are more "Tony Khan" haters because he has the money and resources to do what they only dream of doing, it's always jealous bitter people xD


You are really starting to go to insane lengths as a poster. I wouldn’t want to be Tony Khan. I actually have some rich friends and it’s not easy street. They deal with a lot of social issues. But yeah, gotta be jealous. Can’t just be a valid criticism that the guy bought his position and doesn’t know what he’s doing.


----------



## thisissting

The Wood said:


> I wasn’t talking about doing it right now in a pandemic the US can’t get under control, haha. Why would yku
> 
> 
> 
> Making fun of wrestling forum posters on a wrestling forum. Classic. I was home sick today. Haha, let’s mock him. Got no content?
> 
> 
> 
> You are really starting to go to insane lengths as a poster. I wouldn’t want to be Tony Khan. I actually have some rich friends and it’s not easy street. They deal with a lot of social issues. But yeah, gotta be jealous. Can’t just be a valid criticism that the guy bought his position and doesn’t know what he’s doing.


I'd hate to see how much you can write on wrestling if you were feeling well lol!


----------



## Garty

thisissting said:


> Jeez this guy Wood's posts are almost unreadable. Long rambling nonsense. Must have plenty of time on his hands to sit and write Thomas Hardy novels about wrestling!





thisissting said:


> I'd hate to see how much you can write on wrestling if you were feeling well lol!


I can't read his posts, but do yourself and others a gigantic favor... do not encourage him. You have been forewarned.


----------



## omaroo

Will be the norm with their ratings 700k to 800k.

This is their hardcore fan base and cant see it growing for a long time if ever.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1319370281585172491

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

753k, .30

Not good at all.


----------



## fabi1982

Thinking about they got 1m couple weeks ago, what made these 250k people decide not to watch?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

AEW was doing really well in the 18-34 demo for a while, and they've fallen kind of hard in that.

Shows recently haven't been doing it for me tbh, but we'll see where they go.

I was really enjoying the product for a few weeks in the Summer, thought they had real momentum with the Brodie title change, but these last few weeks man, Butcher challenging for the title, Eddie Kingston, who is great, but for some reason, having never won a match on Dynamite is getting his THIRD title shot, Cody winning his title back, shit followup to the OC win over Jericho.

Just a lot of questionable decisions.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Ouch.


----------



## .christopher.

The Definition of Technician said:


> Man some pathetic comments in this thread already confirmed what I had thought and been saying. Most AEW "haters" are more "Tony Khan" haters because he has the money and resources to do what they only dream of doing, it's always jealous bitter people xD


Now we see the next step.The desperation phase AEW fans are sinking to. They've ran out of excuses for legit criticism and are now resorting to this.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RelivingTheShadow said:


> 753k, .30
> 
> Not good at all.


It's a deserved rating - last week wasn't the best show. Quality hasn't been the best for a while IMO.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Wow, for the standard they delivered in the first hour, I expected better.

It‘s a rating that comes in their usual performance bracket, but you have to admit that’s a poor drop.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

They’ve been consistent on 0.30ish - which is.... ok

should be aiming for 0.35 at least


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Here is the ratings chart


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1319371452437626880

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fabi1982

No OC on ratings


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

optikk sucks said:


> It's a deserved rating - last week wasn't the best show. Quality hasn't been the best for a while IMO.


Agreed, and I didn't hate the All Out go home show as much as everyone else, but I think it's been since the 2nd or 3rd Dynamite after All Out where some of the directions were really head scratching.


----------



## bdon

It’s what they fucking deserve for the show they put on last week!


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

lol thats what you get for focusing on kenneth omega.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Nobody is beating news shows so close to an election


----------



## Buhalovski

bdon said:


> It’s what they fucking deserve for the show they put on last week!


BuT, BuT.... OC Is A DrAw!!! Give me more 20 minute matches of Orange Cassidy, hes the next big thing!!!1


----------



## bdon

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Agreed, and I didn't hate the All Out go home show as much as everyone else, but I think it's been since the 2nd or 3rd Dynamite after All Out where some of the directions were really head scratching.


Ohhhh. You mean about the time that piece of shit Cody returned?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Agreed, and I didn't hate the All Out go home show as much as everyone else, but I think it's been since the 2nd or 3rd Dynamite after All Out where some of the directions were really head scratching.


to be honest they really lost me from All Out - we wanted that next level of Omega Page feud. We were dying for it. That should've kept us gripped. Literally the complete opposite has happened. Some crappy teases - sitting on commentary, making snide comments. How much patience can we give AEW at this point?


----------



## EmbassyForever

optikk sucks said:


> It's a deserved rating - last week wasn't the best show. Quality hasn't been the best for a while IMO.


This.

Next week should be big.
Kenny/Fenix, Hangman/Wardlow. I'm sold.

NXT's go-home show with a 644K is godawful. Wonder when USA Network will throw down the towel.


----------



## omaroo

Lol how the product has fallen.

I do remember someone here saying they would be doing in excess over 1.2 million viewers.

People need to face it they are not growing their fanbase. 

Its stuck at their hardcore base which is 700k-800k

Nothing to be proud of or ride home about. 

Sad really.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> to be honest they really lost me from All Out - we wanted that next level of Omega Page feud. We were dying for it. That should've kept us gripped. Literally the complete opposite has happened. How much patience can we give AEW at this point?


Why would they focus on them two? Jericho and OC are the ratings draw, remember!? This is the show you wanted.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Tsvetoslava said:


> BuT, BuT.... OC Is A DrAw!!! Give me more 20 minute matches of Orange Cassidy, hes the next big thing!!!1


uhmmm.... he didn‘t have a Match this week - maybe that is why the number is low?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Can we also talk about how absolute dog shit this Young Bucks/FTR program is, so Young Bucks are beating up announcers and innocent bystanders, and they are viscously attacked by FTR and they are supposed to be the sympathetic baby faces?

What the fuck???


----------



## El Hammerstone

But, the Neeeeeews


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

I’m curious to find out the breakdown of the ratings for each segment/match. My guess is ratings dropped either during that musical segment or right after


----------



## omaroo

Long term storytelling they were aiming for has clearly not worked, probably had turned people off with boredom.

This is what you deserve AEW for mediocrity.



RelivingTheShadow said:


> Can we also talk about how absolute dog shit this Young Bucks/FTR program is, so Young Bucks are beating up announcers and innocent bystanders, and they are viscously attacked by FTR and they are supposed to be the sympathetic baby faces?
> 
> What the fuck???


Whats thinking the same thing.

No idea direction where they are going with the bucks or most of the roster tbh.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

optikk sucks said:


> to be honest they really lost me from All Out - we wanted that next level of Omega Page feud. We were dying for it. That should've kept us gripped. Literally the complete opposite has happened. Some crappy teases - sitting on commentary, making snide comments. How much patience can we give AEW at this point?


Fair point, All Out was a pretty bad show, and a lot of the angles have been straight up a mess.

Moxley/MJF was a super uninteresting program, when it could've been a fantastic one, they made MJF way too much into a comedy guy with the neck brace and campaign stuff, and then last night, yeah, don't know what to say about that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1319371211894362113


----------



## qntntgood

fabi1982 said:


> Thinking about they got 1m couple weeks ago, what made these 250k people decide not to watch?


Exactly,yet they are put on these show for the Dave meltzer crowd.the number are still the same,they never really go up or down they are just the same and if we can notice it.do you think the Warner media executive's can't ?


----------



## Ozell Gray

I'm shocked it dropped this low this week. I thought it'd drop to 700,000 viewers next week but nope silly me it dropped down to 700,000 this week.


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Nobody is beating news shows so close to an election



Then in December if Trump wins itll be the chaos from that. If Biden wins itll be will Trump concede, then in January itll be inaugration coverage, in Feburary itll be Bidens new lockdown if he wins.

And on, and on, and on. Face it. Their audience has flatlined. This is what they got. People are tired of no major angles ever happening. The product has no unpredictability and is mundane.


----------



## Not Lying

.christopher. said:


> Now we see the next step.The desperation phase AEW fans are sinking to. They've ran out of excuses for legit criticism and are now resorting to this.


😂 😂 No this is truth now, and it's so obvious a lot of haters are bitter fans because Tony gets to live their dream. When I see people typing long ass shit like amateur fan-fiction bookers and making dream matches like 12-year olds with unlimited budget, and how they would do things if they were in his place, it just makes it more clear.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Fair point, All Out was a pretty bad show, and a lot of the angles have been straight up a mess.
> 
> Moxley/MJF was a super uninteresting program, when it could've been a fantastic one, they made MJF way too much into a comedy guy with the neck brace and campaign stuff, and then last night, yeah, don't know what to say about that.


super disappointing - i like speaking to someone educated who has more complaints than mArKo StUnT and JoEy JaNelLa


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

They did a better rating against the Debate than they did this week.

Can't use politics as an excuse for this number.


----------



## fabi1982

And now the comments about „but we crushed NXT“ start again, after it was „now we aim for RAW“ couple weeks ago.

and it is not crushing, its just 100k more. Just because the overall rating is so low it seems like a big accomplishment. Good think NXT stopped giving a damn


----------



## rbl85

RelivingTheShadow said:


> They did a better rating against the Debate than they did this week.
> 
> Can't use politics as an excuse for this number.


Didn't they put title matches on that show ?

First non news program


----------



## RainmakerV2

fabi1982 said:


> And now the comments about „but we crushed NXT“ start again, after it was „now we aim for RAW“ couple weeks ago.
> 
> and it is not crushing, its just 100k more. Just because the overall rating is so low it seems like a big accomplishment. Good think NXT stopped giving a damn



NXT has Oney Lorcan and Danny Burch vs. Breezango as their main event and people are actually memeing about AEW beating them by 100k. Self awareness is just not a thing anymore.


----------



## .christopher.

The Definition of Technician said:


> 😂 😂 No this is truth now, and it's so obvious a lot of haters are bitter fans because Tony gets to live their dream. When I see people typing long ass shit like amateur fan-fiction bookers and making dream matches like 12-year olds with unlimited budget, and how they would do things if they were in his place, it just makes it more clear.


If you're going to be jealous of someone, it'd be Vince McMahon; not Tony. As Vince, you could literally do whatever you wanted to do with the wrestling business.

Khan, like Dixie Carter before him, is getting legit criticism that isn't based off being jealous. Everyone wanted them to succeed. There's still hope for Khan but it's not looking good.


----------



## Klitschko

fabi1982 said:


> Thinking about they got 1m couple weeks ago, what made these 250k people decide not to watch?


30 years of Jericho and the anniversary show made a lot of people mad. I didn't watch this week. Instead, ended up catching a few of their segment highlights from their you tube page after the show ended.


----------



## fabi1982

RainmakerV2 said:


> NXT has Oney Lorcan and Danny Burch vs. Breezango as their main event and people are actually memeing about AEW beating them by 100k. Self awareness is just not a thing anymore.


But the match itself and the outcome was more interesting than seeing a DO goon getting ignored in the ring with a concussion 



Klitschko said:


> 30 years of Jericho and the anniversary show made a lot of people mad. I didn't watch this week. Instead, ended up catching a few of their segment highlights from their you tube page after the show ended.


Nothing you want to achieve with the 30 year anniversary of your biggest star and the 1 year anniversary. But looking at this weeks show, they tried in the first hour but fucked all this up with the second hour.


----------



## DammitChrist

Tsvetoslava said:


> BuT, BuT.... OC Is A DrAw!!! Give me more 20 minute matches of Orange Cassidy, hes the next big thing!!!1





bdon said:


> Ohhhh. You mean about the time that piece of shit Cody returned?


Oh, the both of you can fuck right off implying that Cody Rhodes and Orange Cassidy are "tanking" the ratings.

Both men didn't even get a combined 2 minutes of TV time last night, but yet you're somehow resorting to holding those guys responsible for this dip in viewership 

I'll never get why sad, clueless, and delusional folks blame individual talents for the ratings (whether it's about WWE or AEW).


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, the both of you can fuck right off implying that Cody Rhodes and Orange Cassidy are "tanking" the ratings.
> 
> Both men got a combined 2 minutes of TV time last night, but yet you're somehow resorting to blame those guys for the viewership
> 
> I'll never get why sad, clueless, and delusional folks blame individual talents for the ratings (whether it's about WWE or AEW).


we needed more OC.

OC on TV for a minute. I don't think it's a coincidence that the rating is down this week.


----------



## NathanMayberry

The Definition of Technician said:


> Man some pathetic comments in this thread already confirmed what I had thought and been saying. Most AEW "haters" are more "Tony Khan" haters because he has the money and resources to do what they only dream of doing, it's always jealous bitter people xD


Jealous of what?

My father hasn't given me shit, everything I have, I worked for it. I will never be rich enough to run a shitty soccer or football team or to blow on a wrestling promotion that is hemorrhaging viewers and cost over 100 million. I've accepted that. I'm certainly not bitter about it. Regardless, I will never be as big of a loser as Tony Khan is.

No one respects Dog Wanker. Not even the guys he pays millions to. Can you ever imagine Vince making Jericho the face of the company and Jericho repays him by gaining 60 pounds?


----------



## 3venflow

753k is identical to two weeks ago but 73k down on last week.

The momentum from August and September has faltered and it's now more around what they were doing in June and July. Still better than the April to May ratings, where they were often under 700k.

However, the demo remains very consistent. The last 12 editions of Dynamite on Wednesday have done 0.30 to 0.36. From April to mid-July they were usually below 0.30, so on that front they're still doing fine.


----------



## One Shed

Put on two weeks worth or garbage shows and people are going to tune out. Do more like hour 1 last night and they will come back and grow. Seems pretty simple, no?


----------



## Hephaesteus

So regardless of which organization you support, this aint good. They're losing viewers by the truckload on Wednesday. No convenient excuses for that anymore.


----------



## Klitschko

Ozell Gray said:


> I'm shocked it dropped this low this week. I thought it'd drop to 700,000 viewers next week but nope silly me it dropped down to 700,000 this week.


I'm hoping that they drop to 600's and maybe even a high 500 sometimes in the next few weeks. Not because I want them to die and hate them, but because I know they can do better and they need to know some fans won't stand for the past few weeks of bullshit. Thats the only way they will improve. I want shows to be like from when they first started to Revolution. Those 6 months or so are completely different to the last 6. Yes I know there is a pandemic happening and they are saving some good stuff for when fans come back, but its like two completely different companies to me when it comes to booking and storylines.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Hephaesteus said:


> So regardless of which organization you support, this aint good. They're losing viewers by the truckload on Wednesday. No convenient excuses for that anymore.


"truckload"

my guy this is not a "truckload". they will bounce back after Full Gear


----------



## fabi1982

So beating NXT by 250k is slaughtering NXT, but losing 250k for their own show is no „truckload“? Thats your AEW way or thinking. Same with the „funny“ memes of celebrating a 100k win over NXT


----------



## Erik.

Not surprised. Their ratings always seem to be bipolar. 

It'll be back up over 800k again next week.


----------



## Hephaesteus

optikk sucks said:


> "truckload"
> 
> my guy this is not a "truckload". they will bounce back after Full Gear


Normally when one sides numbers go down so drastically we can account for them in the other organization, not this time. Wouldnt count on the bounce back. Could happen, but def not guaranteed


----------



## Aedubya

The " Very Good Show = not a good rating " trend continues


----------



## Ozell Gray

Klitschko said:


> I'm hoping that they drop to 600's and maybe even a high 500 sometimes in the next few weeks. Not because I want them to die and hate them, but because I know they can do better and they need to know some fans won't stand for the past few weeks of bullshit. Thats the only way they will improve. I want shows to be like from when they first started to Revolution. Those 6 months or so are completely different to the last 6. Yes I know there is a pandemic happening and they are saving some good stuff for when fans come back, but its like two completely different companies to me when it comes to booking and storylines.


They could've put the belt on MJF but instead they kept it on boring Ambrose and has misused MJF and now he's doing stupid comedy with Chris Jericho who has a midlife crisis going on. LAX should be the tag champs now but no we gotta push WWE guys at the top over everyone else and mess up and ruin the shows. They could be better but there's too many cooks in the kitchen for that to happen, plus Tony Khan is a mark for the WWE guys and will listen to them and their ideas. 

Tony Khan should hand the booking decisions over to Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard, Dean Malenko, and Jake Roberts because honestly they'd do a better job of booking than Tony.

The viewership numbers should tell them that long pointless matches and comedy don't draw. It never has and it never will. If it drops down to 600,000viewers then it's time for them to hit the panic button because they'll be in real trouble then.


----------



## RapShepard

Top 15 still show is a hit. Even with that shitty MJF and Jericho match and that travesty of Pentagon losing to Fenix.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Hephaesteus said:


> Normally when one sides numbers go down so drastically we can account for them in the other organization, not this time. Wouldnt count on the bounce back. Could happen, but def not guaranteed


lol it's a guarantee

this is consistent for AEW. they fall down one week and they climb back up the next week.

this doom and gloom thing is manufactured. AEW are doing just fine - some kinks to work on but they will bounce back.


----------



## Pippen94

Solid number - demo remains same.
Nice if wwe could move their Wednesday show - hasn't registered in weeks


----------



## DammitChrist

Erik. said:


> Not surprised. Their ratings always seem to be bipolar.
> 
> It'll be back up over 800k again next week.


Yea, I honestly preferred last night's episode over last week's episode. 

Dynamite flew by fast for me yesterday because I was SHOCKED when I found out it was 10 PM once I saw that small graphic on the screen after FTR assaulted the Young Bucks  

Anyway, I bet the ratings will go back up next week after last night's episode.


----------



## Pippen94

optikk sucks said:


> lol it's a guarantee
> 
> this is consistent for AEW. they fall down one week and they climb back up the next week.
> 
> this doom and gloom thing is manufactured. AEW are doing just fine - some kinks to work on but they will bounce back.


Yep - bigger shows will do better numbers as always. Heck, oc on show will increase numbers


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> Man some pathetic comments in this thread already confirmed what I had thought and been saying. Most AEW "haters" are more "Tony Khan" haters because he has the money and resources to do what they only dream of doing, it's always jealous bitter people xD


Does the same apply to the McMahons and WWE haters?


----------



## bdon

Last two week’s worth of shows fucking sucked. This the result of that.


----------



## Pippen94

thisissting said:


> Jeez this guy Wood's posts are almost unreadable. Long rambling nonsense. Must have plenty of time on his hands to sit and write Thomas Hardy novels about wrestling!


Entered into realm of bizarre; posting theories about billionaires with no connection to wrestling starting old school promotions in 2021 - gone off rails


----------



## Mike E

Isn't it kinda telling that AEW finish 13th on the night and most of the shows ahead of them were news related. Still can't complain finishing 13th in the top 150.


----------



## Seafort

.christopher. said:


> Now we see the next step.The desperation phase AEW fans are sinking to. They've ran out of excuses for legit criticism and are now resorting to this.


Yes. We long for the day that TNT cancels AEW and we can be restored to a complete one, company monopoly once more. The fans have ever so benefited from the largess of WWE's creativity over the last ten years. So have the wrestlers themselves, who no longer would have to worry about what company they should sign with.

By all means, root against the success of AEW.


----------



## The Wood

RainmakerV2 said:


> NXT has Oney Lorcan and Danny Burch vs. Breezango as their main event and people are actually memeing about AEW beating them by 100k. Self awareness is just not a thing anymore.


I’m waiting for the AEW fanboys to claim that NXT is hot-shotting and burning through all their stuff. 



optikk sucks said:


> "truckload"
> 
> my guy this is not a "truckload". they will bounce back after Full Gear


I guess it’s only a truckload if Orange Cassidy “draws” it. 



Pippen94 said:


> Solid number - demo remains same.
> Nice if wwe could move their Wednesday show - hasn't registered in weeks


Not going to happen. USA probably makes more off NXT than TNT does off AEW. Raw matters way more than either show. Who gives a fuck about charting when you’re rolling in it?



Seafort said:


> Yes. We long for the day that TNT cancels AEW and we can be restored to a complete one, company monopoly once more. The fans have ever so benefited from the largess of WWE's creativity over the last ten years. So have the wrestlers themselves, who no longer would have to worry about what company they should sign with.
> 
> By all means, root against the success of AEW.


AEW is not an alternative. It’s more bad wrestling. Who cares at this point? If people were looking for something good, they are still waiting.


----------



## .christopher.

Seafort said:


> Yes. We long for the day that TNT cancels AEW and we can be restored to a complete one, company monopoly once more. The fans have ever so benefited from the largess of WWE's creativity over the last ten years. So have the wrestlers themselves, who no longer would have to worry about what company they should sign with.
> 
> By all means, root against the success of AEW.


I wanted AEW to succeed. That's why their decision to shit on professional wrestling is annoying.



The Wood said:


> AEW is not an alternative. It’s more bad wrestling. Who cares at this point? If people were looking for something good, they are still waiting.


Exactly. AEW is the exact same as the WWE.


----------



## Dr. Jones

NathanMayberry said:


> No one respects Dog Wanker. Not even the guys he pays millions to. Can you ever imagine Vince making Jericho the face of the company and Jericho repays him by gaining 60 pounds?


It's fairly obvious that this is Jericho's vanity project where he gets to make a shitload of money and behave any way he wants. Like Angle did with TNA


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> Man some pathetic comments in this thread already confirmed what I had thought and been saying. Most AEW "haters" are more "Tony Khan" haters because he has the money and resources to do what they only dream of doing, it's always jealous bitter people xD


Whilst of course I'd accept a hundred million dollars if it was handed to me I think jealousy generally stems from things you could realistically have. For example, you might get jealous of a guy that dates your crush but you don't really sit there saying "Oh man I'm so jealous of Jay Z because I could have Beyonce if he was out of the picture!"

I'm not jealous of Tony Khan because he's being afforded privilege that I never realistically could've had. It's hard to be jealous of someone being gifted 100 million dollars when my parents don't even have a million dollars between them.



M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1319370281585172491
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk









LifeInCattleClass said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1319371211894362113


See, this is the problem with AEW fans. They drop 100k viewers or so (I haven't done the maths yet before someone jumps down my throat with "IT WAS ONLY 55K YOU TROLLING FUCK!) but it's still "Oh well, beat NXT, doesn't matter"

Instead of looking under the hood at why AEW struggles to hit a million and is dropping every week. Excuses are made as well about news shows but reality is AEW hasn't really put on an above average show on TV for well over a month now. People are getting tired of it.



The Definition of Technician said:


> 😂 😂 No this is truth now, and it's so obvious a lot of haters are bitter fans because Tony gets to live their dream. When I see people typing long ass shit like amateur fan-fiction bookers and making dream matches like 12-year olds with unlimited budget, and how they would do things if they were in his place, it just makes it more clear.


We're bitter because the product is shitty. Most people don't desire to run big wrestling shows (Including myself really)



optikk sucks said:


> "truckload"
> 
> my guy this is not a "truckload". they will bounce back after Full Gear


Ah but if it was an increase it would suddenly become a "truckload"



fabi1982 said:


> So beating NXT by 250k is slaughtering NXT, but losing 250k for their own show is no „truckload“? Thats your AEW way or thinking. Same with the „funny“ memes of celebrating a 100k win over NXT


This. The memes are cringe as well.


----------



## imthegame19

Seafort said:


> Yes. We long for the day that TNT cancels AEW and we can be restored to a complete one, company monopoly once more. The fans have ever so benefited from the largess of WWE's creativity over the last ten years. So have the wrestlers themselves, who no longer would have to worry about what company they should sign with.
> 
> By all means, root against the success of AEW.


The funny thing is these AEW hating trolls. Don't understand the ratings and that this is another good/consistent number for AEW. TNT gonna have zero programming that does these "down" numbers for rest of 2020 lol. Yet it's some victory to some. When numbers drop a little vs World Series and Election coverage. It's really sad how many wrestling fans in 2020. Just don't understand modern day cable tv ratings or don't want to. Because it doesn't fit agenda to say negative things about AEW.


----------



## Not Lying

.christopher. said:


> If you're going to be jealous of someone, it'd be Vince McMahon; not Tony. As Vince, you could literally do whatever you wanted to do with the wrestling business.
> 
> Khan, like Dixie Carter before him, is getting legit criticism that isn't based off being jealous. Everyone wanted them to succeed. There's still hope for Khan but it's not looking good.





NathanMayberry said:


> Jealous of what?
> 
> My father hasn't given me shit, everything I have, I worked for it. I will never be rich enough to run a shitty soccer or football team or to blow on a wrestling promotion that is hemorrhaging viewers and cost over 100 million. I've accepted that. I'm certainly not bitter about it. *Regardless, I will never be as big of a loser as Tony Khan is.
> 
> No one respects Dog Wanker*. Not even the guys he pays millions to. Can you ever imagine Vince making Jericho the face of the company and Jericho repays him by gaining 60 pounds?


not jealous at lol. 



RapShepard said:


> Does the same apply to the McMahons and WWE haters?


Lol, there's a WHOLE lot of different reasons to dislike Vince McMahon than just his booking. The Tony hate is just hilarious because people are shaken by a manager who's very chill. 

All I see is some losers saying "if I were Khan, I'd get this guy and this guy, and I'd do this" a million times over, pretending like cash or contracts or circumstances shouldn't be a concern, criticising his style, his vision of wrestling and clearly wanting him to fail. You're all delusional or just being WWE apologists now if you don't see the bitterness and jealousy towards Tony.

The guy doesn't owe you a damn thing. All he has to do is get a return on his investment within a certain period of time. Your definition of success isn't the same as his, you can criticize him like Vince saying he's a millionaire that should be a billionaire, but he's happy putting on a shitty product that he enjoys (his vision). Khan is basically doing the same thing on a smaller scale, and in his world he's on his way to succeeding by making money and keeping AEW alive for as long as possible. 

If Tony loses money and he's too stubborn to change his style, your "criticism" might seem legit, but it's worth shit now, considering Vince has been getting this same type of "criticism" but at the end of the day kept making money. If Tony is happy making money of those 800K viewers while booking what he likes instead of making more money and getting 1.2m viewers by booking shit he doesn't like, then it's his right and you can't say he's not successful or you do look bitter because the guy is making money doing what he likes, and that's just making you mad cause it's not what you like 😂


----------



## The Wood

No one in TV interprets ratings the way Meltzer and Alvarez use them. They’re not power levels. It’s not the mid-nineties anymore. USA just wants to make fucking money. NXT didn’t chart? It’s a PG WWE show with a worldwide presence that they pay very little for (if anything). Dynamite is TV-14, costs $45 million and splits the ad revenue with TNT.

I threw out random numbers yesterday, but even if both shows got $100 million in ad revenue, by the time you factor in what TNT pays for AEW and the split, TNT are only pocketing $27.5 million compared to the potential whole $100 million USA does.

Yeah, I’m sure NBC Universal are really mad. And ad revenue is the ONLY reason ratings matter. This is why apparent journalists like Meltzer and Alvarez’s tones about these numbers as if we’re talking about 4.5’s in the 90’s is ridiculous.

I love discussing ratings, and I love busting the myths people believe about them (like they are literal and exact numbers), but we’re not talking Raw killing Nitro here. We’re talking about a granny falling asleep with her TV on TNT, and pricks like Meltzer and Alvarez are taking it as literal popularity.


----------



## Seafort

The Wood said:


> AEW is not an alternative. It’s more bad wrestling. Who cares at this point? If people were looking for something good, they are still waiting.


WWE was horrible wrestling in 1995. So was WCW in 1995. Things can change relatively quickly under the right circumstances.


----------



## The Wood

Seafort said:


> WWE was horrible wrestling in 1995. So was WCW in 1995. Things can change relatively quickly under the right circumstances.


I’ve got to meet that with a big, fat “So?” Seaford, my man. If AEW gets better, it gets better. It doesn’t mean it gets a pass now. 1995 still gives people the shivers.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> No one in TV interprets ratings the way Meltzer and Alvarez use them. They’re not power levels. It’s not the mid-nineties anymore. USA just wants to make fucking money. NXT didn’t chart? It’s a PG WWE show with a worldwide presence that they pay very little for (if anything). Dynamite is TV-14, costs $45 million and splits the ad revenue with TNT.
> 
> I threw out random numbers yesterday, but even if both shows got $100 million in ad revenue, by the time you factor in what TNT pays for AEW and the split, TNT are only pocketing $27.5 million compared to the potential whole $100 million USA does.
> 
> Yeah, I’m sure NBC Universal are really mad. And ad revenue is the ONLY reason ratings matter. This is why apparent journalists like Meltzer and Alvarez’s tones about these numbers as if we’re talking about 4.5’s in the 90’s is ridiculous.
> 
> I love discussing ratings, and I love busting the myths people believe about them (like they are literal and exact numbers), but we’re not talking Raw killing Nitro here. We’re talking about a granny falling asleep with her TV on TNT, and pricks like Meltzer and Alvarez are taking it as literal popularity.


From your posts here wwe & USA both make more money on Wednesday than show which does double the rating. Either TV or promotion is getting better of it - can't have it both ways unless it's magic product

USA so happy that wwe producing show during pandemic - wonder what happens if they stop?? USA has get out clause probably.

Not busting anybody on ratings - you're speculating on numbers nobody is privy to & devising scenarios which favor your fancy. Just another example of this troubling fantastical state you've descended into


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> From your posts here wwe & USA both make more money on Wednesday than show which does double the rating. Either TV or promotion is getting better of it - can't have it both ways unless it's magic product
> 
> USA so happy that wwe producing show during pandemic - wonder what happens if they stop?? USA has get out clause probably.
> 
> Not busting anybody on ratings - you're speculating on numbers nobody is privy to & devising scenarios which favor your fancy. Just another example of this troubling fantastical state you've descended into


What the fuck even is this post?

I was throwing out a hypothetical number. I chose it randomly because it is round and I saw a figure of $345 million for WWE programming a few years ago. So I took a slice of it, considering Raw now fucking costs that much.

I don’t even understand your pandemic point. AEW produced content too? What are you even trying to say?


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> I’ve got to meet that with a big, fat “So?” Seaford, my man. *If AEW gets better, it gets better. It doesn’t mean it gets a pass now. *1995 still gives people the shivers.


AEW should get a pass now for being consistently entertaining to watch tbh


----------



## imthegame19

Dr. Jones said:


> It's fairly obvious that this is Jericho's vanity project where he gets to make a shitload of money and behave any way he wants. Like Angle did with TNA


Now only if someone gave TNA 175 million plus to air that vanity project. Because of the extreme value that show ratings brought to their network.



Mike E said:


> Isn't it kinda telling that AEW finish 13th on the night and most of the shows ahead of them were news related. Still can't complain finishing 13th in the top 150.


Yep 2nd ranked non news show in demo. With Smackdown on much less watched cable tv this week. It will be interesting to see how close their rating is to AEW this week. Considering they Smackdown did 888,000 and .27 in 18 to 49 on FS1 last year. I expect them to be very close in demo and AEW only 50,000 to 100,000 less viewers. But we will see.


----------



## 3venflow

DammitChrist said:


> AEW should get a pass now for being consistently entertaining to watch tbh


Some people can't fathom that a lot of people like the product. And by god, they won't stop until we feel the same and they can say 'I told you so'. Every week... AEW is terrible, Tony Khan is useless, Jericho is a joke, Cody is an egomaniac... while being completely non-existent on the WWE, IMPACT and other boards.

It reminds me of the people on Twitter who respond to every Trump and Biden tweet with nothing but attacks (like Jeff Tiedrich) and have very little else to say.

FFS, if I thought so little of something, the last thing I'd be doing is investing so much time in thinking and talking about it. When I got sick of WWE a while after they bought out WCW, I turned it off and started watching other stuff for years.

Cynical smarks seem to have forgotten: we watch wrestling to be entertained. If we're not entertained, what's the point really? Dig out old tapes and watch the classic stuff if the new stuff is so bad. I often go back to my childhood and watch some Hulkamania era stuff if I'm disillusioned with wrestling.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> AEW should get a pass now for being consistently entertaining to watch tbh


Nope. It’s not good. 



imthegame19 said:


> Now only if someone gave TNA 175 million plus to air that vanity project. Because of the extreme value that show ratings brought to their network.


TV rights weren’t that big then. You know that, you’re just being dishonest.

I also love how $45 million per year gets accumulated to an end future total. TNT aren’t necessarily going to see that contract through. $180 million over four years is piss in TV terms. 



3venflow said:


> Some people can't fathom that a lot of people like the product. And by god, they won't stop until we feel the same and they can say 'I told you so'. Every week... AEW is terrible, Tony Khan is useless, Jericho is a joke, Cody is an egomaniac... while being completely non-existent on the WWE, IMPACT and other boards.
> 
> It reminds me of the people on Twitter who respond to every Trump and Biden tweet with nothing but attacks (like Jeff Tiedrich) and have very little else to say.
> 
> FFS, if I thought so little of something, the last thing I'd be doing is investing so much time in thinking and talking about it. When I got sick of WWE a while after they bought out WCW, I turned it off and started watching other stuff for years.
> 
> Cynical smarks seem to have forgotten: we watch wrestling to be entertained. If we're not entertained, what's the point really? Dig out old tapes and watch the classic stuff if the new stuff is so bad. I often go back to my childhood and watch some Hulkamania era stuff if I'm disillusioned with wrestling.


And some people can’t fathom that some don’t like it and want it to get better. You don’t need to come here and discuss it with people. But it’s not your right to police what people do and do not talk about.


----------



## imthegame19

3venflow said:


> Some people can't fathom that a lot of people like the product. And by god, they won't stop until we feel the same and they can say 'I told you so'. Every week... AEW is terrible, Tony Khan is useless, Jericho is a joke, Cody is an egomaniac... while being completely non-existent on the WWE, IMPACT and other boards.
> 
> It reminds me of the people on Twitter who respond to every Trump and Biden tweet with nothing but attacks (like Jeff Tiedrich) and have very little else to say.
> 
> FFS, if I thought so little of something, the last thing I'd be doing is investing so much time in thinking and talking about it. When I got sick of WWE a while after they bought out WCW, I turned it off and started watching other stuff for years.
> 
> Cynical smarks seem to have forgotten: we watch wrestling to be entertained. If we're not entertained, what's the point really? Dig out old tapes and watch the classic stuff if the new stuff is so bad. I often go back to my childhood and watch some Hulkamania era stuff if I'm disillusioned with wrestling.


Yeah AEW does some polarizing things. That some people are going to like and some are going to hate. Jericho/MJF last night is good example of that this week and Orange Cassidy character in general. 


People keep bringing up sports based wrestling. That was idea at one point before they got on TNT. But they quickly realized that wouldn't work. So they give people mix of all different types of wrestling. They do bit of old mid south, 90s ECW or Japan, modern fast pace Indie and Japan matches and of course some sports entertainment. 


Doing that mix is going to be polarizing to some fans. Because they like some of that stuff and some of that other stuff. That's why I'm guessing some of these people still care to hate watch every week. It's because they like some of the show and look for stuff to bitch about that they know they will hate. 


I'm a person who likes AEW, looks forward to it and watches every single week. Do I think some things are dumb or wish they didn't do certain things. Of course but I also understand not everything is for me and my taste. 


I don't like Orange Cassidy, but guess what. My wife started watching with me every week because she likes Orange Cassidy goofy character. I don't like cinematic matches or Jericho/MJF dance number. But I also saw that a lot of people loved that stuff. Or when I told a friend to watch and told him about some of the cool stuff they are doing. He texts me what the hell is this, when Sonny Kiss comes out. Again I understand that characters not for me and i made sure to tell my friend. He's not main character on tv much. 


Overall I enjoy 60 to 70 percent of what they do or maybe more. So if people can't understand that not everything on the show is for them and understand they aren't going to like everything. Well thats gonna ruin the shows for them and they need to stop watching AEW. Because they are gonna do risky stuff and try things and not everything in the show will be for everyone.


----------



## Seafort

The Wood said:


> I’ve got to meet that with a big, fat “So?” Seaford, my man. If AEW gets better, it gets better. It doesn’t mean it gets a pass now. 1995 still gives people the shivers.


I get you. It's one thing to call out content you disagree with for AEW, or any other promotion for that matter. But there are some who are actively rooting for AEW to fail, and in that regard I scratch my head.


----------



## thorn123

I just don’t think AEW is ever going to consistency stay above 800k ... unless a new hogan or Austin comes out of thin air ... no amount of fantasy booking will change the dial. IN MY OPINION last night was great.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> And some people can’t fathom that *some don’t like it and want it to get better. *You don’t need to come here and discuss it with people. But it’s not your right to police what people do and do not talk about.


Alright, fine, I’ll get more serious here.

See, if THOSE people you speak of GENUINELY “wanted the AEW product to get better,” then they wouldn’t gloat (or even celebrate) whenever the ratings for Dynamite fall slightly on a down-week.

They wouldn’t obnoxiously mock or trash the passionate fans for enjoying (something from) the AEW product that they clearly don’t.

They also wouldn’t make it sound like they’re actually rooting against the company to succeed.

It’s honestly hard for the bitter/whiny folks to fathom that there’s a good portion of fans that are entertained by the product (almost) weekly.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> What the fuck even is this post?
> 
> I was throwing out a hypothetical number. I chose it randomly because it is round and I saw a figure of $345 million for WWE programming a few years ago. So I took a slice of it, considering Raw now fucking costs that much.
> 
> I don’t even understand your pandemic point. AEW produced content too? What are you even trying to say?


You post fantasy not facts - you'll never be able to provide evidence to back up figures



DaveRA said:


> I just don’t think AEW is ever going to consistency stay above 800k ... unless a new hogan or Austin comes out of thin air ... no amount of fantasy booking will change the dial. IN MY OPINION last night was great.


Well, without competition show last night would've tracked close to 950k based on past results



The Wood said:


> Nope. It’s not good.
> 
> 
> 
> TV rights weren’t that big then. You know that, you’re just being dishonest.
> 
> I also love how $45 million per year gets accumulated to an end future total. TNT aren’t necessarily going to see that contract through. $180 million over four years is piss in TV terms.
> 
> 
> 
> And some people can’t fathom that some don’t like it and want it to get better. You don’t need to come here and discuss it with people. But it’s not your right to police what people do and do not talk about.


TNA was never a top ranked show - would get a lot less


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Seafort said:


> WWE was horrible wrestling in 1995. So was WCW in 1995. Things can change relatively quickly under the right circumstances.


WCW and WWE also had decades and decades of experience behind the scenes and legitimately some of the most talented minds and wrestlers to ever be in wrestling.



DaveRA said:


> I just don’t think AEW is ever going to consistency stay above 800k ... unless a new hogan or Austin comes out of thin air ... no amount of fantasy booking will change the dial. IN MY OPINION last night was great.


They won't consistently stay above 800k because it's very niche. Different booking could change it.



DammitChrist said:


> Alright, fine, I’ll get more serious here.
> 
> See, if THOSE people you speak of GENUINELY “wanted the AEW product to get better,” then they wouldn’t gloat (or even celebrate) whenever the ratings for Dynamite fall slightly on a down-week.
> 
> They wouldn’t obnoxiously mock or trash the passionate fans for enjoying (something from) the AEW product that they clearly don’t.
> 
> They also wouldn’t make it sound like they’re actually rooting against the company to succeed.
> 
> It’s honestly hard for the bitter/whiny folks to fathom that there’s a good portion of fans that are entertained by the product (almost) weekly.


If we want it to get better why would we not be pleased on the weeks they put out shit and get shit ratings? That anniversary show was the worst show I've seen from a mainstream wrestling show and the ratings reflect that. Why wouldn't I be happy? Shit ratings on one year anniversary show might make dumb fuck Tony think "Ah shit, better change things"

We debate with the fans because reality is most of you lie and pretend these things that are killing this company are fine and move the goal posts constantly. Luther main events? That's fine. Miro is a video game loving bad ass? That's great! Allie randomly goes from QT's main squeeze to The Bunny again? Doesn't matter. Jericho and MJF broke out into song this week on international television and you have 10-15 guys defending it with one even saying it's the best comedy wrestling segment ever.

Nobody is entertained by this mess. You have people who are so desperate for it to succeed that they'll pretend it's awesome and then you have the people truthfully saying what's wrong with it. I cannot see how any wrestling fan could watch certain parts of the AEW product and say "I love this"

And it's been proven as well, every time a poll is made that is comedy vs serious we always have serious win by a landslide. Like 2 people voted that Best Friends were their favourite tag team in AEW. FTR and Kenny/Hangman topped it.


----------



## Kentucky34

By the end of the year they will be averaging between 500-600k.

The novelty has worn off.


----------



## imthegame19

DaveRA said:


> I just don’t think AEW is ever going to consistency stay above 800k ... unless a new hogan or Austin comes out of thin air ... no amount of fantasy booking will change the dial. IN MY OPINION last night was great.


If WWE ever decides to stop sacrificing NXT. AEW would do 900 to 1.1m every week. if they weren't going head to head. Which is really highest consistent viewship TNT gets from anything. Besides the NBA sometimes.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah AEW does some polarizing things. That if some people are going to like and some are going to hate. Jericho/MJF last night is good example of that this week and Orange Cassidy character in general.
> 
> 
> People keep bringing up sports based wrestling. That was idea at one point before they got on TNT. But they quickly realized that wouldn't work. So they give people mix of all different types of wrestling. They do bit of old mid south, 90s ECW or Japan, modern fast pace Indie and Japan matches and of course some sports entertainment.
> 
> 
> Doing that mix is going to be polarizing to some fans. Because they like some of that stuff and some of that other stuff. That's why I'm guessing some of these people still care to hate watch every week. It's because they like some of the show and look for stuff to bitch about that they know they will hate.
> 
> 
> I'm a person who likes AEW, looks forward to it and watches every single week. Do I think some things are dumb or wish they didn't do certain things. Of course but I also understand not everything is for me and my taste.
> 
> 
> I don't like Orange Cassidy, but guess what. My wife started watching with me every week because she likes Orange Cassidy goofy character. I don't like cinematic matches or Jericho/MJF dance number. But I also saw that a lot of people loved that stuff. Or when I told a friend to watch and told him about some of the cool stuff they are doing. They do and text me what the hell is this, when Sonny Kiss comes out. Again I understand that characters not for me and he's not on tv much.
> 
> 
> Overall I enjoy 60 to 70 percent of what they do or maybe more. So if people can't understand that not everything on the show is for them and understand they aren't going to like everything. Then let that ruin the shows for them. Well they need to stop watching AEW. Because they are gonna do risky stuff and try things and not everything in the show will be for everyone.


There is absolutely no Mid-South or 90’s Japan in there. Lol, who is Misawa in this company? I just wanted to get that out of the way.

And don’t tell me that the sports-based presentation wouldn’t work. THEY DIDN’T EVEN TRY IT!!!! Their _first match_ was a staggered Battle Royal featuring Glacier, Sonny Daze, Sonny Kiss and a man with no legs (in a fight — it is not a knock on anyone with disabilities) for a WORLD TITLE SHOT!!! Not one word of that is a lie. Don’t feed me “they were really smart and had to change direction” crap.

ALL the stuff praised from early AEW, universally praised, was good pro-wrestling. It is possible to make fans happy. Who here actively disliked Dustin vs. Cody? Chris Jericho signing with AEW? MJF vs. Jungle Boy. Those all worked fine. And you know what? They’re good pro-wrestling. They didn’t _have_ to change anything. They _wanted_ to change. Because it’s a sloppy shop run by a boss who wants to be everyone’s friend, can’t say no, and signed a bunch of people to creative positions who think that wrestling is there to tickle them as opposed to actually working LIKE THE STUFF THAT WORKED!!!

This idea that “sports based” wouldn’t work is based on nothing and is just a way to avoid admitting the truth: the promotion lied. Consumers don’t like being lied to. We’re mad about it and we want our sports-based wrestling with a budget and some stars. Fuck off with this buffet shit. No one wants faeces right next to rheirbxhocolatr



DammitChrist said:


> Alright, fine, I’ll get more serious here.
> 
> See, if THOSE people you speak of GENUINELY “wanted the AEW product to get better,” then they wouldn’t gloat (or even celebrate) whenever the ratings for Dynamite fall slightly on a down-week.
> 
> They wouldn’t obnoxiously mock or trash the passionate fans for enjoying (something from) the AEW product that they clearly don’t.
> 
> They also wouldn’t make it sound like they’re actually rooting against the company to succeed.
> 
> It’s honestly hard for the bitter/whiny folks to fathom that there’s a good portion of fans that are entertained by the product (almost) weekly.


Schadenfreude is a thing. People don’t mind seeing the arrogant scrape their knees sometimes. And fanboys online are really annoying and smug when they predict 1.2 million because Orange Cassidy is the best. It is sometimes great to be able to tell people “I told you so.”

And an uncomfortable truth about wrestling is that bad wrestling can hurt the whole perception of wrestling. It’s not harmless. And there are people who don’t think that this is bad wrestling or that bad wrestling would even hurt. But those are opposing viewpoints. Someone is definitively right and wrong there.

And some won’t say it. They’re too sensitive and it seems incorrect to say out loud, and maybe it’s true for them, but I don’t give a fuck:

I actively want there to be less bad wrestling. It needs to go away. The talented people can find jobs elsewhere. It’ll give good wrestling a chance. I want an alternative, but I don’t want any alternative. I don’t want Anything Else Wrestling. “I Can’t Believe It’s Not WWE.”

I love wrestling, but I hate sports entertainment. I am not going to pretend that this promotion isn’t making things worse because some people pretend to like the lumps. 



Pippen94 said:


> You post fantasy not facts - you'll never be able to provide evidence to back up figures


Do you know what a hypothetical is? 



Pippen94 said:


> Well, without competition show last night would've tracked close to 950k based on past results


If nothing else was on television it would have done better. Amazing work, Pips.

Even if it were the only thing on television it would still only get 1 million viewers. 



Pippen94 said:


> TNA was never a top ranked show - would get a lot less


For that amount of money at stake, an investor may have done more for TNA and tried to poach someone away. That could have made them a top show. The promotion may have had a wider appeal too. Say they get Hulk Hogan, are they going to get more families in? This would improve their value even if they weren’t top rated.

There’s actually more to this than just where you rank on Showbuzz. Different audiences have different appeals. AEW probably has a lot of single men close to 40. We know their income isn’t great, so even if all their money is expendable, are they worth marketing to?


----------



## imthegame19

Kentucky34 said:


> By the end of the year they will be averaging between 500-600k.
> 
> The novelty has worn off.


Hmm haven't heard this one before lol. It's more likely they will be above 900 viewers again in next two weeks then 500-600 if you go off the trends and competition slowing down soon. But I dunno why I'm trying to respond with logic with you. When you are clearly trolling.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

imthegame19 said:


> Hmm haven't heard this one before lol. It's more likely they will be above 900 viewers again in next two weeks then 500-600 if you go off the trends and competition slowing down soon. But I dunno why I'm trying to respond with logic with you. When you are clearly trolling.


900,000 huh? Maybe if something really exciting happens on the PPV but the coming week of TV (The go home show isn't it?) is going to feature Cody Vs Orange Cassidy the rematch which was awful the first time and will be awful the second time.


----------



## thorn123

Chip Chipperson said:


> WCW and WWE also had decades and decades of experience behind the scenes and legitimately some of the most talented minds and wrestlers to ever be in wrestling.
> 
> 
> 
> They won't consistently stay above 800k because it's very niche. Different booking could change it.
> 
> 
> 
> If we want it to get better why would we not be pleased on the weeks they put out shit and get shit ratings? That anniversary show was the worst show I've seen from a mainstream wrestling show and the ratings reflect that. Why wouldn't I be happy? Shit ratings on one year anniversary show might make dumb fuck Tony think "Ah shit, better change things"
> 
> We debate with the fans because reality is most of you lie and pretend these things that are killing this company are fine and move the goal posts constantly. Luther main events? That's fine. Miro is a video game loving bad ass? That's great! Allie randomly goes from QT's main squeeze to The Bunny again? Doesn't matter. Jericho and MJF broke out into song this week on international television and you have 10-15 guys defending it with one even saying it's the best comedy wrestling segment ever.
> 
> Nobody is entertained by this mess. You have people who are so desperate for it to succeed that they'll pretend it's awesome and then you have the people truthfully saying what's wrong with it. I cannot see how any wrestling fan could watch certain parts of the AEW product and say "I love this"
> 
> And it's been proven as well, every time a poll is made that is comedy vs serious we always have serious win by a landslide. Like 2 people voted that Best Friends were their favourite tag team in AEW. FTR and Kenny/Hangman topped it.


I think it needs to be accepted that people do enjoy it, and are not tricking themselves into liking it. Then people would be less defensive about suggestions. I pretty much watched WWE for years when it was boring same old rubbish and now find the bucks, omega etc... a breath of fresh air.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> If WWE ever decides to stop sacrificing NXT. AEW would do 900 to 1.1m every week. if they weren't going head to head. Which is really highest consistent viewship TNT gets from anything. Besides the NBA sometimes.


Why would WWE do this? They compete for 200k floating fans which allows them to cap AEW and make it less valuable, which keeps their big properties more valuable.

I’m telling you: AEW has got to be pretty vigilant in going to fight against any executive that gets the idea that those unopposed numbers are desirable, because if TNT moves them, they’re dead. WWE will launch a new show on the same day, load it with talent and dominate them. AEW can only do so much.

Imagine Dynamite going against Daniel Bryan vs. Brock Lesnar. Like, you can pretend all you want, but WWE is winning that night. And that might be an occasion they give Rock a call to do a segment with Heyman and Reigns. The difference Rock makes is massive. That’ll be like 3 million viewers against AEW’s 600k faithful, and that’s if Rock, Bryan and Brock don’t make a few hundred thousand of them switch.

Then you’ve got the executive that was moving them for 1.1 million fans needing to defend himself for a return of 300k.

AEW is not fresh anymore. It’s not going to take the hardcore audience every week anymore. That’s why NXT went soft. They were NEVER going to win out the gate. And they knew that, so they didn’t fan the fans. Now the AEW audience is, what, potentially 1.1 million on the slowest week? WWE can beat that with anything they actually try and fucking promote every week.

NXT is not moving because USA presumably gets a great deal on it, the WWE name and PG rating probably help with advertising, and WWE are not going to back down and offer their competition a few hundred thousand viewers and increase their value and future bargaining power and influence over WWE’s future deals.

If anyone moves a show, it will be TNT because they’ll get greedy for that rating and ad revenue money. Remember they are splitting it with AEW. The difference between 750k and 950k is probably more important to them than it is to USA who keep a larger share and have Raw.

Tony Khan needs to pull whatever strings he’s got, or get Daddy to take the executives out on his yacht to make sure this doesn’t happen. They will not end up with more people — they will end up with a bigger fight and we know how that go.

And by the way, before you go “Well it would be shitty WWE, I would still watch AEW lol,” remember: You are not only in the minority of wrestling fans, but the new show would not be produced by Vince McMahon. He’s got shit to do on a Tuesday, surely. It will be a proper audience for Triple H to run arena shows, and it will likely be produced by someone like Michael Cole and not Kevin Dunn. Those shows look amazing. It will be Takeover with main roster talent and stars. It will KILL Jericho and MJF crooning.

They might even have the pull to get a three hour debut to get the drop on AEW and have The Rock come on at the top of the hour. Yeah, no one is switching over to watch Cody vs. Sonny Kiss.

And I DARE someone to tell me I’m wrong. As if WWE is going to let Dynamite go unopposed ANY night. And they will offer USA a proper replacement for SmackDown FOR FREE if they have to. They can collect rights fees later, but they’re making $500 million a year. They can afford the $1 million a week in production costs for a while.

NXT is then unopposed on Wednesday. So it probably goes up to 850k viewers, which would be more than Dynamite takes in on Tuesday or whatever.

The WWE will have the 1-4 shows in wrestling (Raw, SmackDown, NXT and the new one). Vince McMahon would need to kill the dog of one of his top stars to make them jump ship. Top indy talent are going to NXT. AEW will be left with the “talent” that WWE actively doesn’t want, because they can’t work. And who they’ve got already, although a lot will obviously jump ship when their contracts expire.

Tony Khan NEEDS AEW to stay opposite NXT on Wednesdays. And given that he’s run ahead with this idea for a second show (which is going to meet competition too), I don’t think he’s smart enough to realise it.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DaveRA said:


> I think it needs to be accepted that people do enjoy it, and are not tricking themselves into liking it. Then people would be less defensive about suggestions. I pretty much watched WWE for years when it was boring same old rubbish and now find the bucks, omega etc... a breath of fresh air.


I'm not saying Bucks, Omega etc though. Whilst all three aren't really my cup of tea (I prefer Kenny to The Bucks though) I can see why people could enjoy them. Stuff like the two top heels breaking out in song, Luther main eventing, Marko Stunt, Janela, Kiss is the stuff I don't buy. Nobody looks at this type of thing and says "This is how wrestling on TV should be"


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> If we want it to get better why would we not be pleased on the weeks* they put out shit and get shit ratings? That anniversary show was the worst show I've seen from a mainstream wrestling show and the ratings reflect that.* Why wouldn't I be happy? *Shit ratings on one year anniversary show might make dumb fuck Tony think "Ah shit, better change things"*
> 
> We debate with the fans because *reality is most of you lie *and *pretend these things that are killing this company* are fine and move the goal posts constantly. Luther main events? That's fine. Miro is a video game loving bad ass? That's great! Allie randomly goes from QT's main squeeze to The Bunny again? Doesn't matter. Jericho and MJF broke out into song this week on international television and you have 10-15 guys defending it with one even saying it's the best comedy wrestling segment ever.
> 
> *Nobody is entertained by this mess. *You have people who are *so desperate for it to succeed that they'll pretend it's awesome *and then you have the *people truthfully saying what's wrong with it.* *I cannot see how any wrestling fan could watch certain parts of the AEW product and say "I love this"*
> 
> And it's* been proven* as well, every time a poll is made that is comedy vs serious *we always have serious win* by a landslide. Like 2 people voted that Best Friends were their favourite tag team in AEW. FTR and Kenny/Hangman topped it.


See, the fact that you continue to make hyperbolic statements like the bolded where you pretend that "everything in AEW is shit" (like claiming that AEW's 1-year anniversary was the "worst episode that was seen ever"), that the ratings are "terrible" (even though they're solid since those numbers still exceed what TNT was expecting the company to get), and that you're still pretending like you know what you're talking about (such as laughable comments like "these things are killing the company since it's been proven" plus "the shit ratings reflect that" plus "the fans pretend that the product is awesome") just proves that you shouldn't be taken seriously by other folks on here since you're laughably biased against the company to extreme levels.

Hell, you're even unnecessarily calling Tony Khan a "dumb fuck" here when that phrase is pretty ironic and silly in this case; but yet you expect us to actually reason with you people  

You can fuck right off with your ridiculous exaggerations, such as claiming that "nobody is entertained by this 'mess'". MAYBE, just maybe, that there are still plenty of wrestling fans that are genuinely entertained by the AEW product, and that they aren't "pretending" to enjoy something that you clearly don't? Seriously, who the fuck are you to even decide what wrestling fans find entertaining and which ones find something unappealing? Are you supposed to be some kind of 'credible' judge on here (because you're failing miserably)?

Anyway, my previous point about the obnoxious critics still stands, and you've really done nothing to dispel my valid viewpoints about them. For the record, I've (along with the reasonable fans on here who actually do have a clue) still yet to see bitter folks like yourself be "truthful" with the criticism/complaints at all. It honestly sounds like you're just rooting for this company (which is still a big alternative for many wrestling fans) to fail here going by your recent comments about AEW over the past 2+ months, which is pretty sad and pathetic tbh.

Maybe you should work on making ACTUAL constructive criticism instead of being tempted to frequently make vile and destructive comments about AEW (which stems from your OPINION plus your deep hatred for most of the content from the product) for the sake of being a cynical individual. It'll get you far in actually getting a more pleasant discussion here out of people like you


----------



## imthegame19

Pippen94 said:


> You post fantasy not facts - you'll never be able to provide evidence to back up figures


Lol sounds like you talking about Wood. With him making things up and pushing it as facts with zero proof. Or ridiculous unrealistic scenarios. I can't believe he still posts on here when so many people have him on ignore. What a waste of time. I suggest the rest of you guys put him on ignore too. Instead of wasting your time with him writing novels of made up fantasy scenarios that all perfectly go with his opinions. 


Don't waste your time reading or responding to his stuff. He has way too much time on his hands and his goal is to tire you out of the conversation. Until you get sick if replying and wasting so much time. Which leads to him thinking he won the debate or whatever. When in reality he won the biggest waste of time award. So put him on ignore and let him waste his time and nobody elses.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Why would WWE do this? They compete for 200k floating fans which allows them to cap AEW and make it less valuable, which keeps their big properties more valuable.
> 
> I’m telling you: AEW has got to be pretty vigilant in going to fight against any executive that gets the idea that those unopposed numbers are desirable, because if TNT moves them, they’re dead. WWE will launch a new show on the same day, load it with talent and dominate them. AEW can only do so much.
> 
> Imagine Dynamite going against Daniel Bryan vs. Brock Lesnar. Like, you can pretend all you want, but WWE is winning that night. And that might be an occasion they give Rock a call to do a segment with Heyman and Reigns. The difference Rock makes is massive. That’ll be like 3 million viewers against AEW’s 600k faithful, and that’s if Rock, Bryan and Brock don’t make a few hundred thousand of them switch.
> 
> Then you’ve got the executive that was moving them for 1.1 million fans needing to defend himself for a return of 300k.
> 
> AEW is not fresh anymore. It’s not going to take the hardcore audience every week anymore. That’s why NXT went soft. They were NEVER going to win out the gate. And they knew that, so they didn’t fan the fans. Now the AEW audience is, what, potentially 1.1 million on the slowest week? WWE can beat that with anything they actually try and fucking promote every week.
> 
> NXT is not moving because USA presumably gets a great deal on it, the WWE name and PG rating probably help with advertising, and WWE are not going to back down and offer their competition a few hundred thousand viewers and increase their value and future bargaining power and influence over WWE’s future deals.
> 
> If anyone moves a show, it will be TNT because they’ll get greedy for that rating and ad revenue money. Remember they are splitting it with AEW. The difference between 750k and 950k is probably more important to them than it is to USA who keep a larger share and have Raw.
> 
> Tony Khan needs to pull whatever strings he’s got, or get Daddy to take the executives out on his yacht to make sure this doesn’t happen. They will not end up with more people — they will end up with a bigger fight and we know how that go.
> 
> And by the way, before you go “Well it would be shitty WWE, I would still watch AEW lol,” remember: You are not only in the minority of wrestling fans, but the new show would not be produced by Vince McMahon. He’s got shit to do on a Tuesday, surely. It will be a proper audience for Triple H to run arena shows, and it will likely be produced by someone like Michael Cole and not Kevin Dunn. Those shows look amazing. It will be Takeover with main roster talent and stars. It will KILL Jericho and MJF crooning.
> 
> They might even have the pull to get a three hour debut to get the drop on AEW and have The Rock come on at the top of the hour. Yeah, no one is switching over to watch Cody vs. Sonny Kiss.
> 
> And I DARE someone to tell me I’m wrong. As if WWE is going to let Dynamite go unopposed ANY night. And they will offer USA a proper replacement for SmackDown FOR FREE if they have to. They can collect rights fees later, but they’re making $500 million a year. They can afford the $1 million a week in production costs for a while.
> 
> NXT is then unopposed on Wednesday. So it probably goes up to 850k viewers, which would be more than Dynamite takes in on Tuesday or whatever.
> 
> The WWE will have the 1-4 shows in wrestling (Raw, SmackDown, NXT and the new one). Vince McMahon would need to kill the dog of one of his top stars to make them jump ship. Top indy talent are going to NXT. AEW will be left with the “talent” that WWE actively doesn’t want, because they can’t work. And who they’ve got already, although a lot will obviously jump ship when their contracts expire.


Please don’t tell me you’re still arguing that NXT will be winning the ratings by WrestleMania. Stop bro. WWE can beat AEW, but NXT can’t and won’t be doing shit.z


----------



## Pippen94

imthegame19 said:


> Lol sounds like you talking about Wood. With him making things up and pushing it as facts with zero proof. Or ridiculous unrealistic scenarios. I can't believe he still posts on here when so many people have him on ignore. What a waste of time. I suggest the rest of you guys put him on ignore too. Instead of wasting your time with him writing novels of made up fantasy scenarios that all perfectly go with his opinions.
> 
> 
> Don't waste your time reading or responding to his stuff. He has way too much time on his hands and his goal is to tire you out of the conversation. Until you get sick if replying and wasting so much time. Which leads to him thinking he won the debate or whatever. When in reality he won the biggest waste of time award. So put him on ignore and let him waste his time and nobody elses.


You're right - wood writes stupid stuff to trigger a response. Good advice I think I'll steer clear of his nonsense


----------



## Buhalovski

DammitChrist said:


> See, the fact that you continue to make hyperbolic statements like the bolded where you pretend that "everything in AEW is shit" (like claiming that AEW's 1-year anniversary was the "worst episode that was seen ever"), that the ratings are "terrible" (even though they're solid since those numbers still exceed what TNT was expecting the company to get), and that you're still pretending like you know what you're talking about (such as laughable comments like "these things are killing the company since it's been proven" plus "the shit ratings reflect that" plus "the fans pretend that the product is awesome") just proves that you shouldn't be taken seriously by other folks on here since you're laughably biased against the company to extreme levels.
> 
> Hell, you're even unnecessarily calling Tony Khan a "dumb fuck" here when that phrase is pretty ironic and silly in this case; but yet you expect us to actually reason with you people
> 
> You can fuck right off with your ridiculous exaggerations, such as claiming that "nobody is entertained by this 'mess'". MAYBE, just maybe, that there are still plenty of wrestling fans that are genuinely entertained by the AEW product, and that they aren't "pretending" to enjoy something that you clearly don't? Seriously, who the fuck are you to even decide what wrestling fans find entertaining and which ones find something unappealing? Are you supposed to be some kind of 'credible' judge on here (because you're failing miserably)?
> 
> Anyway, my previous point about the obnoxious critics still stands, and you've really done nothing to dispel my valid viewpoints about them. For the record, I've (along with the reasonable fans on here who actually do have a clue) still yet to see bitter folks like yourself be "truthful" with the criticism/complaints at all. It honestly sounds like you're just rooting for this company (which is still a big alternative for many wrestling fans) to fail here going by your recent comments about AEW over the past 2+ months, which is pretty sad and pathetic tbh.
> 
> Maybe you should work on making ACTUAL constructive criticism instead of being tempted to frequently make vile and destructive comments about AEW (which stems from your OPINION plus your deep hatred for most of the content from the product) for the sake of being a cynical individual. It'll get you far in actually getting a more pleasant discussion here out of people like you


Dude, except New Japan AEW is the only company I follow nowadays. Obviously I want it to succeed but the problem is I just cant tolerate stupid shit and be like some of you.

The whole show is filled with haha gimmicks and trashy comedy. Jericho in 2020 is a meme, fucking Orange Cassidy being serious title contender and one of the most protected wrestlers in the roster, YB being geeks, MJF singing songs doing goofy shit, Sony Kiss getting TV time, etc. This is just an example.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1319437714245103616


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> Schadenfreude is a thing. *People don’t mind seeing the arrogant scrape their knees sometimes.* And fanboys online are really annoying and smug when they predict 1.2 million because Orange Cassidy is the best. *It is sometimes great to be able to tell people “I told you so.*”


Look, I'll just acknowledge this part of your post since the rest of your comment is pretty much *your *interpretation of the AEW product and the company as a whole; which is a viewpoint that I cannot change.

Honestly, I find these bolded parts to be quite ironic because the critics who bitch about guys like Orange Cassidy and Cody Rhodes are ACTUALLY the arrogant ones here.

Seriously, have you NOT seen the petty folks on here just salivating for the chance to blame those guys whenever there's a small dip with the ratings?

Those passionate fans genuinely want those guys to succeed. As much as you find those folks to be "really annoying" (for whatever reason), the opposing side can be really fucking obnoxious and arrogant each time Dynamite goes through a down-week in terms of the ratings. They get all smug by gloating to the fans that guys like Cassidy and Cody are what's "luring the viewers" away while also mocking/insulting the numerous bunch of people who DO enjoy seeing them on TV. 

Trust me, those critics are far worse; which is why you even see some of those fans get 'smug' and eager to see those guys to succeed in the first place. It's extremely satisfying watching those critics figuratively scrape their knees whenever guys like Cassidy and Cody do end up holding up the viewership in spite of their ridiculous claims that they're 'tanking' the company.

For the record, you and your side haven't actually "told us (anything) so" truthfully btw. Let's make that fact clear here.


----------



## One Shed

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1319437714245103616


Looks like the dumb did worse than average this week.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1319444122348843009


----------



## One Shed

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1319444122348843009


Alvarez spends a full three sentences to explain he cannot understand how the ratings went down after two piss poor shows.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

AEW is barely beating NXT says the usual suspects.

Yet they are nearly doubling them in demo and NXT "non charted" again.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> See, the fact that you continue to make hyperbolic statements like the bolded where you pretend that "everything in AEW is shit" (like claiming that AEW's 1-year anniversary was the "worst episode that was seen ever"), that the ratings are "terrible" (even though they're solid since those numbers still exceed what TNT was expecting the company to get), and that you're still pretending like you know what you're talking about (such as laughable comments like "these things are killing the company since it's been proven" plus "the shit ratings reflect that" plus "the fans pretend that the product is awesome") just proves that you shouldn't be taken seriously by other folks on here since you're laughably biased against the company to extreme levels.
> 
> Hell, you're even unnecessarily calling Tony Khan a "dumb fuck" here when that phrase is pretty ironic and silly in this case; but yet you expect us to actually reason with you people
> 
> You can fuck right off with your ridiculous exaggerations, such as claiming that "nobody is entertained by this 'mess'". MAYBE, just maybe, that there are still plenty of wrestling fans that are genuinely entertained by the AEW product, and that they aren't "pretending" to enjoy something that you clearly don't? Seriously, who the fuck are you to even decide what wrestling fans find entertaining and which ones find something unappealing? Are you supposed to be some kind of 'credible' judge on here (because you're failing miserably)?
> 
> Anyway, my previous point about the obnoxious critics still stands, and you've really done nothing to dispel my valid viewpoints about them. For the record, I've (along with the reasonable fans on here who actually do have a clue) still yet to see bitter folks like yourself be "truthful" with the criticism/complaints at all. It honestly sounds like you're just rooting for this company (which is still a big alternative for many wrestling fans) to fail here going by your recent comments about AEW over the past 2+ months, which is pretty sad and pathetic tbh.
> 
> Maybe you should work on making ACTUAL constructive criticism instead of being tempted to frequently make vile and destructive comments about AEW (which stems from your OPINION plus your deep hatred for most of the content from the product) for the sake of being a cynical individual. It'll get you far in actually getting a more pleasant discussion here out of people like you


Lol, settle the fuck down bro. Put the big boy words away.

"Everything in AEW is shit"? Opinion. "Worst episode I've seen of mainstream wrestling"? Again, opinion. Ratings being terrible is also an opinion with some facts since they started at 1.4 million and slowly trickled down to 750,000 now. Meltzer reports TNT are okay with this but how credible is he in 2020 when it comes to AEW?

Thanks for calling me a dumbfuck but next time perhaps say it straight up instead of in a round about way. Tony has no clue what he's doing that comes from a guy with 12 years in the business and 17 years as a fan. Zero. Nada. If you think differently that's great but it's incorrect.

The reason I say that nobody real could be enjoying this is because every real person I know think it's awful and again, when the board gets polled or AEW puts on a serious show the serious stuff is always seen as much more desirable and is always put over much more.

You've never seen me be constructive? You must be new here I used to be known as the guy who always had a constructive criticism and an educated one at that. Bit hard to be constructive now when you've got the two top heels singing together, Luther in main events, gimmick matches almost every week, nonsensical story lines etc which is probably why it's been harder.

Go check out the time I tried to be constructive in a fun way with some fantasy booking by the way. I was shit on by the regular crew. People don't want people like me to be constructive they want us to shut up so they can pretend AEW is awesome.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

CMPunkRock316 said:


> AEW is barely beating NXT says the usual suspects.
> 
> Yet they are nearly doubling them in demo and NXT "non charted" again.


Ah, after months of barely talking about demo it gets close between AEW and NXT again and we're suddenly back to the demo talk again, lol


----------



## imthegame19

Pippen94 said:


> You're right - wood writes stupid stuff to trigger a response. Good advice I think I'll steer clear of his nonsense


Yeah I was once a sucker who use to get in long debates with him too. He tried to make the case that AEW would be cancelled by TNT by April. Stuff like JR or Jericho would quit the company by end of the year. Or they couldn't get anymore WWE guys to jump ship to AEW etc. With all kinds of made up fake facts that go towards his agenda to make AEW look bad. 


Then AEW signed 2 year 175 million extension. When weeks prior to that this idiot wrote novels saying how TNT wasn't happy with AEW based off his fake knowledge and educated opinions etc.


I told myself why I'm I wasting my time when I could be hanging out with my wife or friends. Yet instead I was arguing with someone who clearly is lesser then me as a person and has no life. So why would I waste my time with him or anyone else. So I put 6 or 7 people on ignore. It was best thing I ever did lol. If i had to compare Wood opinions, educated guesses, fake fantasy, novels etc to a wrestler. It would be Marko Stunt. He's terrible, stupid, laughable, joke and annoying guy who just won't go away. Well I hope you guys all enjoy his long novel response to this. Because it won't exist or be seen by me.


----------



## sideon

Two Sheds said:


> Alvarez spends a full three sentences to explain he cannot understand how the ratings went down after two piss poor shows.


The problem when you're a shill is that you have to abandon critical thinking since it'll make your argument look worse.


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> Lol, settle the fuck down bro. Put the big boy words away.
> 
> "Everything in AEW is shit"? Opinion. "Worst episode I've seen of mainstream wrestling"? Again, opinion. Ratings being terrible is also an opinion with some facts since they started at 1.4 million and slowly trickled down to 750,000 now. Meltzer reports TNT are okay with this but how credible is he in 2020 when it comes to AEW?
> 
> Thanks for calling me a dumbfuck but next time perhaps say it straight up instead of in a round about way. Tony has no clue what he's doing that comes from a guy with 12 years in the business and 17 years as a fan. Zero. Nada. If you think differently that's great but it's incorrect.
> 
> The reason I say that nobody real could be enjoying this is because every real person I know think it's awful and again, when the board gets polled or AEW puts on a serious show the serious stuff is always seen as much more desirable and is always put over much more.
> 
> You've never seen me be constructive? You must be new here I used to be known as the guy who always had a constructive criticism and an educated one at that. Bit hard to be constructive now when you've got the two top heels singing together, Luther in main events, gimmick matches almost every week, nonsensical story lines etc which is probably why it's been harder.
> 
> Go check out the time I tried to be constructive in a fun way with some fantasy booking by the way. I was shit on by the regular crew. People don't want people like me to be constructive they want us to shut up so they can pretend AEW is awesome.


Remember, @DammitChrist is the guy who rated Trashidy an 8 on the mic. He seems to have a personal stake in this. Hence, why his attacks against some of us are at a personal level. The whole thing is really weird honestly.


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> Remember, @DammitChrist is the guy who rated *Trashidy* an 8 on the mic. He seems to have a personal stake in this. Hence, why his attacks against some of us are at a personal level. The whole thing is really weird honestly.


I've never heard of that made-up name in my entire life, so it'd be impossible for me to rate him an 8/10 on anything if he isn't actually real.

Again, it is important for everyone to be reminded that you're the same individual who gets offended when some folks call you out on your nonsense, but yet you don't hesitate to call AEW/Cassidy fans "geeks/dorks with neckbeards who are out of shape" whenever you have the temptation to do so.

That's pretty odd of you tbh.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> See, the fact that you continue to make hyperbolic statements like the bolded where you pretend that "everything in AEW is shit" (like claiming that AEW's 1-year anniversary was the "worst episode that was seen ever"), that the ratings are "terrible" (even though they're solid since those numbers still exceed what TNT was expecting the company to get), and that you're still pretending like you know what you're talking about (such as laughable comments like "these things are killing the company since it's been proven" plus "the shit ratings reflect that" plus "the fans pretend that the product is awesome") just proves that you shouldn't be taken seriously by other folks on here since you're laughably biased against the company to extreme levels.
> 
> Hell, you're even unnecessarily calling Tony Khan a "dumb fuck" here when that phrase is pretty ironic and silly in this case; but yet you expect us to actually reason with you people
> 
> You can fuck right off with your ridiculous exaggerations, such as claiming that "nobody is entertained by this 'mess'". MAYBE, just maybe, that there are still plenty of wrestling fans that are genuinely entertained by the AEW product, and that they aren't "pretending" to enjoy something that you clearly don't? Seriously, who the fuck are you to even decide what wrestling fans find entertaining and which ones find something unappealing? Are you supposed to be some kind of 'credible' judge on here (because you're failing miserably)?
> 
> Anyway, my previous point about the obnoxious critics still stands, and you've really done nothing to dispel my valid viewpoints about them. For the record, I've (along with the reasonable fans on here who actually do have a clue) still yet to see bitter folks like yourself be "truthful" with the criticism/complaints at all. It honestly sounds like you're just rooting for this company (which is still a big alternative for many wrestling fans) to fail here going by your recent comments about AEW over the past 2+ months, which is pretty sad and pathetic tbh.
> 
> Maybe you should work on making ACTUAL constructive criticism instead of being tempted to frequently make vile and destructive comments about AEW (which stems from your OPINION plus your deep hatred for most of the content from the product) for the sake of being a cynical individual. It'll get you far in actually getting a more pleasant discussion here out of people like you


That Jericho/MJF segment was egregiously one of the worst things I’ve ever seen in wrestling. If you’re smart enough to find it offensive, it’s REALLY offensive. More so than just a boring Raw promo or whatever. So is that really hyperbolic?

And what is it with people being allergic to opinions around here? Chip makes his points very calmly and reasonably. People get frustrated because they can’t keep up and then freak out.



imthegame19 said:


> Lol sounds like you talking about Wood. With him making things up and pushing it as facts with zero proof. Or ridiculous unrealistic scenarios. I can't believe he still posts on here when so many people have him on ignore. What a waste of time. I suggest the rest of you guys put him on ignore too. Instead of wasting your time with him writing novels of made up fantasy scenarios that all perfectly go with his opinions.
> 
> 
> Don't waste your time reading or responding to his stuff. He has way too much time on his hands and his goal is to tire you out of the conversation. Until you get sick if replying and wasting so much time. Which leads to him thinking he won the debate or whatever. When in reality he won the biggest waste of time award. So put him on ignore and let him waste his time and nobody elses.


Facts without proof? I mean, you’ve obviously got me on ignore, ya big baby, but if you mean I confidently assert my opinions, because I believe in them, sure! But I can tell the difference between a fact and an opinion. I spend a lot of my time on here busting opinions presented as fact actually.

Someone tried to make it a “fact” that AEW gets good numbers. That’s not a fact. The number estimate is factual, but the interpretation of it is not.

It’d perfectly reasonable to take a fact: TNT split their ad revenue with AEW. Fact. And then make a statement about that fact. This could come back and bite them because it leaves a lot of money off the table for TNT.

Yes, that is an educated opinion of mine, based off logic and reason. Why wouldn’t TNT want access to double the money when that is the industry standard? That is when an intelligent person replies with their own fact and theorisation on top of that fact. It’s called andiscussion



bdon said:


> Please don’t tell me you’re still arguing that NXT will be winning the ratings by WrestleMania. Stop bro. WWE can beat AEW, but NXT can’t and won’t be doing shit.z


No, my thesis is that if Dynamite moves day, WWE will counter-program that and kill it hard since we know the limit of AEW now.

NXT can potentially beat AEW though. It’ll take more time since the hardcore audience is mobilised behind the “good guys” in AEW. I did predict the tables would turn by now. And it looked like they were going to, but then they turned back. My thinking on this is that a lot of this particular fan-base is more aware of the shows’ success rates, and when AEW dip, fans feel more responsibility to help it out.

But NXT is still taking it really easy on AEW. They’re just doing their own thing, it seems. I do think that audience has the potential to grow though.

It just needs some stars, promotion and emphasis. If it had a bit more “oomph” it would help too. Let two guys who can talk have an actual argument or something. Just a bit of life and colour.

My picks to go there would be AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan, Rey Mysterio, Drew Gulak, Chad Gable, Sami Zayn, Cesaro, Shinsuke Nakamura and maybe Kevin Owens and Ricochet.

That seems like a lot, but you can phase them in. Bryan and Cole feuding, Styles and Balor, Cesaro & Naks as Tag Champs, Zayn as an annoying prick talking about how he built NXT. Chad Gable actually being amazing. Ricochet and Rey for the Cruiserweight Division. Gulak for technical matches with Timothy Thatcher and Kyle O’Reilly.

The women...hmm. I would probably send Asuka back for a program with Io Shirai. That might be it for now.

Those moves don’t need to be permanent. Or they can be a bit longer. Just give me Cesaro vs. Walter at some point though, please.

That happens and NXT does surprisingly well. Between those people there is either massive appeal or talent that would tickle the floating fans’ tastes. Gulak might not be a huge star (although he did get a push alongside Bryan earlier this year), but nothing AEW ever puts on is touching a Gulak/Thatcher match. Best of Seven Series, let’s go. 

Then you slowly introduce new talent, move some talent up and/or move new stars in. NXT increases if it is not a developmental/guys that don’t fit the main roster brand.

And there’s no reason you can’t have Sami Zayn & Kevin Owens tearing it up in both NXT and on SmackDown. You could even make them the double Tag Champs. Whatever. That sort of stuff would help.

NXT on its own as is just needs time and life. And having Scarlett back in someone’s corner skanking it up (in the most complimentary way possible) would help. I honestly thought she would be a bigger difference maker by now. But I was kind of underwhelmed by her presentation and 



DammitChrist said:


> Look, I'll just acknowledge this part of your post since the rest of your comment is pretty much *your *interpretation of the AEW product and the company as a whole; which is a viewpoint that I cannot change.
> 
> Honestly, I find these bolded parts to be quite ironic because the critics who bitch about guys like Orange Cassidy and Cody Rhodes are ACTUALLY the arrogant ones here.
> 
> Seriously, have you NOT seen the petty folks on here just salivating for the chance to blame those guys whenever there's a small dip with the ratings?
> 
> Those passionate fans genuinely want those guys to succeed. As much as you find those folks to be "really annoying" (for whatever reason), the opposing side can be really fucking obnoxious and arrogant each time Dynamite goes through a down-week in terms of the ratings. They get all smug by gloating to the fans that guys like Cassidy and Cody are what's "luring the viewers" away while also mocking/insulting the numerous bunch of people who DO enjoy seeing them on TV.
> 
> Trust me, those critics are far worse; which is why you even see some of those fans get 'smug' and eager to see those guys to succeed in the first place. It's extremely satisfying watching those critics figuratively scrape their knees whenever guys like Cassidy and Cody do end up holding up the viewership in spite of their ridiculous claims that they're 'tanking' the company.
> 
> For the record, you and your side haven't actually "told us (anything) so" truthfully btw. Let's make that fact clear here.


Well, of course you’re going to say we’re arrogant. I think the promotion that puts this shit out is arrogant. If people wanted to watch it, they would. They’re not.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> I've never heard of that made-up name in my entire life, so it'd be impossible for me to rate him an 8/10 on anything if he isn't actually real.
> 
> Again, it is important for everyone to be reminded that you're the same individual who gets offended when some folks call you out on your nonsense, but yet you don't hesitate to call AEW/Cassidy fans "geeks/dorks with neckbeards who are out of shape" whenever you have the temptation to do so.
> 
> That's pretty odd of you tbh.


As I have already had to explain to you 2-3 times now, nicknames are as old as wrestling. Trashidy is an obvious one that more and more people will pick up because, well, it fits. Garbage Trashidy. I know you hate it because you know it fits.

Let me know again when I need to be offended. What am I being called out on again? A bad rating after two weeks of trash shows? Weird how that works.

Hmm I have certainly called Trashidy fans neckbeards...but I do not believe I have ever commented on their weight or appearance. Perhaps I have and you can show me where? It matters to me much more what is in someone's mind than their physical appearance. There do seem to be some interesting patterns though.


----------



## The Wood

CMPunkRock316 said:


> AEW is barely beating NXT says the usual suspects.
> 
> Yet they are nearly doubling them in demo and NXT "non charted" again.


The demo’s significance is overrated. Cable television is archaic when it comes to reaching that demo. 300k this week, according to Alvarez. You’re probably leading more towards digital for them.

prosperwithdeen is very pro-AEW and asserts he works in marketing and basically admitted the same thing. TNT did a press release talking about how hard it has been selling advertising.

The reason the demo used to be so valued is because it was perceived they had the most disposable income. I’m not sure if that’s still the case, what with how society changes over time. Look at the housing market. How have spending habits changed?

Is someone 18-39 looking to spend money on sneakers or on getting a house?

We also know that wrestling fans aren’t the most desired of target groups either.

This metric is brought up because it makes AEW look good. Raw getting a 0.6 is rarely brought up and that show is considered failing and uncool.

NXT’s demo rating is bizarrely low. I have always asserted that they watch NXT later on the WWE Network or via DVR. If people are interested in both shows (hardcore fans), is anyone watching NXT live and then AEW on tape delay? Think about it. They’re either going AEW first or NXT only.



imthegame19 said:


> Yeah I was once a sucker who use to get in long debates with him too. He tried to make the case that AEW would be cancelled by TNT by April. Stuff like JR or Jericho would quit the company by end of the year. Or they couldn't get anymore WWE guys to jump ship to AEW etc. With all kinds of made up fake facts that go towards his agenda to make AEW look bad.
> 
> 
> Then AEW signed 2 year 175 million extension. When weeks prior to that this idiot wrote novels saying how TNT wasn't happy with AEW based off his fake knowledge and educated opinions etc.
> 
> 
> I told myself why I'm I wasting my time when I could be hanging out with my wife or friends. Yet instead I was arguing with someone who clearly is lesser then me as a person and has no life. So why would I waste my time with him or anyone else. So I put 6 or 7 people on ignore. It was best thing I ever did lol. If i had to compare Wood opinions, educated guesses, fake fantasy, novels etc to a wrestler. It would be Marko Stunt. He's terrible, stupid, laughable, joke and annoying guy who just won't go away. Well I hope you guys all enjoy his long novel response to this. Because it won't exist or be seen by me.


Ha! I did make the prediction that Jericho or JR would leave the company. I forgot about that. That one probably won’t turn out, but I don’t think anyone predicted The Fall of Jericho as it’s happened. He’s actually a bad comedian now. But I’ll laugh if JR leaves right after Christmas or something. You’ll be hearing lots of “Wood was right!”

I never predicted they would be off TNT by April. That one’s made up. I predicted that NXT would start beating them consistently in the ratings by April. That didn’t happen.

But those are predictions. They’re not “presented as facts.” They aren’t facts until they happen. You’re just projecting that onto me because you prefer it when people present their thoughts in wishy washy ways.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

@prosperwithdeen has left the forum I think. Not seen him in a little while, might be another one done with the AEW product which is unfortunate because despite his love he was usually reasonable when discussing AEW.


----------



## sideon

The Wood said:


> But NXT is still taking it really easy on AEW. They’re just doing their own thing, it seems. I do think that audience has the potential to grow though.
> 
> It just needs some stars, promotion and emphasis. If it had a bit more “oomph” it would help too. Let two guys who can talk have an actual argument or something. Just a bit of life and colour.
> 
> My picks to go there would be AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan, Rey Mysterio, Drew Gulak, Chad Gable, Sami Zayn, Cesaro, Shinsuke Nakamura and maybe Kevin Owens and Ricochet.


Your idea would be great if they really cared about beating AEW, but they really just wanted to stunt their growth and they have done just that. If HHH really cared about the ratings for NXT he'd move them to a different night, but he's already said that they're staying on Wednesday.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Put geeks like sonny kiss and crap on tv pay the price. Also force terrible comedy, pay the price. AEW absolutely sucks right now and it's a shame


----------



## Cult03

DammitChrist said:


> Alright, fine, I’ll get more serious here.
> 
> See, if THOSE people you speak of GENUINELY “wanted the AEW product to get better,” then they wouldn’t gloat (or even celebrate) whenever the ratings for Dynamite fall slightly on a down-week.
> 
> They wouldn’t obnoxiously mock or trash the passionate fans for enjoying (something from) the AEW product that they clearly don’t.
> 
> They also wouldn’t make it sound like they’re actually rooting against the company to succeed.
> 
> It’s honestly hard for the bitter/whiny folks to fathom that there’s a good portion of fans that are entertained by the product (almost) weekly.


Except we did want to see it succeed, then they turned to shit and now all we can do is laugh (which is apparently all they want us to do anyway because haha comedy right?

Yeah we definitely shouldn't mock the same pricks who have insulted us for months, from the very beginning when we had any criticisms at all. The same fans who want OC to get pushed just to annoy us? Fuck them.


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Well, without competition show last night would've tracked close to 950k based on past results


Haha wait, is this a legitimate opinion of yours? Before we get into the ridiculousness of this statement can you answer this one very important question? Will the sun rise tomorrow? Thank you, Captain Obvious. Jesus Chris, no wonder you don't often post opinions of your own. 

Without any competition this show would have done better? And if my grandma had wheels she'd be a bike.


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> Well, without competition show last night would've tracked close to 950k based on past results


This number is lower than the week they went head to head with the debate, which had like what? 30m people watching? So if you want to be blindly supportive maybe just use your spots right.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> Haha wait, is this a legitimate opinion of yours? Before we get into the ridiculousness of this statement can you answer this one very important question? Will the sun rise tomorrow? Thank you, Captain Obvious. Jesus Chris, no wonder you don't often post opinions of your own.
> 
> Without any competition this show would have done better? And if my grandma had wheels she'd be a bike.


Fucking Cody rHHHodes would be proud of this burial. I lol’d. Savage.


----------



## DammitChrist

Cult03 said:


> Yeah we definitely shouldn't *mock the same pricks* who have insulted us for months, from the very beginning when we had any criticisms at all. The same fans who want OC to get pushed just to annoy us? *Fuck them*.


Hey, that's cool.

However, always remember that the feeling is mutual (always will be too) between us passionate fans and some of the bitter pricks like yourself.


----------



## Cult03

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, that's cool.
> 
> However, always remember that the feeling is mutual (always will be too) between us passionate fans and some of the bitter pricks like yourself.


Cool with me, maybe one day you guys will try something different and have a discussion or something?


----------



## DammitChrist

Cult03 said:


> Cool with me, maybe one day you guys will try something different and have a discussion or something?


That sounds good. Perhaps maybe once your side decides to finally calm and settle down first.


----------



## The Wood

Lol, I can’t believe people are actually saying you can’t discuss with Cult and Chip. I know I’m on their “side” but they’re so obviously reasonable people. The super pro-AEW side has them too. And there’s bdon. Doing his own thing, tellin’ ‘em.


----------



## Cult03

The Wood said:


> Lol, I can’t believe people are actually saying you can’t discuss with Cult and Chip. I know I’m on their “side” but they’re so obviously reasonable people. The super pro-AEW side has them too. And there’s bdon. Doing his own thing, tellin’ ‘em.


They call me a troll when I post anything at all and then expect me to not respond negatively to their shit.


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> @prosperwithdeen has left the forum I think. Not seen him in a little while, might be another one done with the AEW product which is unfortunate because despite his love he was usually reasonable when discussing AEW.


lol.
This forum is becoming deader because trolls like you, Cult, Woods, fabinumbers, and a few of the rest of Khan/AEW haters have the worst and stupidest opinions that you keep repeating and derailing threads with, and for some reason the mods here are non-existent to scold on you on it. You're a toxic miserable person self-indulgent geek who thinks he's chasing people away from AEW, but you're just making them not want to see your dumb shit on this forum that is apparantly full of jealous, bitter morons and geeks.



Cult03 said:


> They call me a troll when I post anything at all and then expect me to not respond negatively to their shit.


You are a troll 😂


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> lol.
> This forum is becoming deader because trolls like you, Cult, Woods, fabinumbers, and a few of the rest of Khan/AEW haters have the worst and stupidest opinions that you keep repeating and derailing threads with, and for some reason the mods here are non-existent to scold on you on it. You're a toxic miserable person self-indulgent geek who thinks he's chasing people away from AEW, but you're just making them not want to see your dumb shit on this forum that is apparantly full of jealous, bitter morons and geeks.
> 
> 
> 
> You are a troll 😂


Talk about toxic. Yeesh.

Wrestling forums all over are dying because there is more product than ever but less and less good stuff. And that’s why so much opinion that is left is negative. People hung on for as long as they could, but now only the super-passionate/hardcore remain.

The mods don’t “scold” us (although I have received a temporary ban for apparently insulting somebody) because there’s nothing wrong with calmly stating your opinion and backing it up with facts and/or reason.

How about you engage on a subject of conversation? Which show do you think is more likely to move nights and why? Do you think WWE could counter-program a show with 1 million viewers on a different night? Who do you think wins that fight?

How about you actually say something instead of calling other people’s opinions stupid?


----------



## .christopher.

No, this forum isn't dying because of specific posters.

It's dying because, A, the site change pissed off the old members, and B, because wrestling is shit, which AEW contributes a lot to in that department.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> Lol, I can’t believe people are actually saying you can’t discuss with Cult and Chip. I know I’m on their “side” but they’re so obviously reasonable people. The super pro-AEW side has them too. And there’s bdon. Doing his own thing, tellin’ ‘em.


Yeah, the proof is in the pudding really. The only people I seemingly have issues with are the people who are super AEW fans to the point that they'll get aggressive if you say "Well no, they aren't that great". FireFromTheGods, LifeInCattleClass (Before he randomly blocked me, lol), Prosper and many other of the AEW fans were or are on god terms with me. Even guys like Dolladrew who disagree with me often have sent me nice private messages telling me to check something out or asking questions.



The Definition of Technician said:


> lol.
> This forum is becoming deader because trolls like you, Cult, Woods, fabinumbers, and a few of the rest of Khan/AEW haters have the worst and stupidest opinions that you keep repeating and derailing threads with, and for some reason the mods here are non-existent to scold on you on it. You're a toxic miserable person self-indulgent geek who thinks he's chasing people away from AEW, but you're just making them not want to see your dumb shit on this forum that is apparantly full of jealous, bitter morons and geeks.
> 
> 
> 
> You are a troll 😂


Ah so @fabi1982 is now a troll also? He hasn't been posting that long but I've seen some pretty good posts from the guy but because he's not blindly pro AEW I guess he gets lumped in as a troll also. You were negative about AEW a couple of times today, how long until your fellow loyalists throw you in the "troll" pile as well?

Reality is we're not trolls mate, I started posting regularly in February or March my opinion has never changed on the matter. I have praised AEW when they have done well and criticised when done poorly. That's my right, I'm sorry you don't like that.

Mods are doing fine and aren't biased at all. Cult03 who is obviously a well respected member of our "side" has been banned a fair few times.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Lol, I can’t believe people are actually saying you can’t discuss with Cult and Chip. I know I’m on their “side” but they’re so obviously reasonable people. The super pro-AEW side has them too. And there’s bdon. Doing his own thing, tellin’ ‘em.


I try.


Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, the proof is in the pudding really. The only people I seemingly have issues with are the people who are super AEW fans to the point that they'll get aggressive if you say "Well no, they aren't that great". FireFromTheGods, LifeInCattleClass (Before he randomly blocked me, lol), Prosper and many other of the AEW fans were or are on god terms with me. Even guys like Dolladrew who disagree with me often have sent me nice private messages telling me to check something out or asking questions.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah so @fabi1982 is now a troll also? He hasn't been posting that long but I've seen some pretty good posts from the guy but because he's not blindly pro AEW I guess he gets lumped in as a troll also. You were negative about AEW a couple of times today, how long until your fellow loyalists throw you in the "troll" pile as well?
> 
> Reality is we're not trolls mate, I started posting regularly in February or March my opinion has never changed on the matter. I have praised AEW when they have done well and criticised when done poorly. That's my right, I'm sorry you don't like that.
> 
> Mods are doing fine and aren't biased at all. Cult03 who is obviously a well respected member of our "side" has been banned a fair few times.


Heh. I’ve been labeled a hater and an apologist so many times, I sometimes feel like Cody rHHHodes, incapable of picking a side and burying everyone that is firmly on one side of the aisle or not.

Except...you know...I’m not a bleached-blonde piece of fucking shit.


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> Ah so @fabi1982 is now a troll also? He hasn't been posting that long but I've seen some pretty good posts from the guy but because he's not blindly pro AEW I guess he gets lumped in as a troll also. You were negative about AEW a couple of times today, how long until your fellow loyalists throw you in the "troll" pile as well?
> 
> Reality is we're not trolls mate, I started posting regularly in February or March my opinion has never changed on the matter. I have praised AEW when they have done well and criticised when done poorly. That's my right, I'm sorry you don't like that.
> 
> Mods are doing fine and aren't biased at all. Cult03 who is obviously a well respected member of our "side" has been banned a fair few times.


You people are mentally sick. I can't believe you dare look at your actions, what you've been typing for a year now, and claim "We want AEW to succeed", when you've been criticizing them for any irrelevant thing you could think of.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> You people are mentally sick. I can't believe you dare look at your actions, what you've been typing for a year now, and claim "We want AEW to succeed", when you've been criticizing them for any irrelevant thing you could think of.


Ah now we're mentally ill. Thanks mate.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Definition of Technician said:


> You people are mentally sick. I can't believe you dare look at your actions, what you've been typing for a year now, and claim "We want AEW to succeed", when you've been criticizing them for any irrelevant thing you could think of.


that’s concern trolling. The lack of moderation around here is why it has flourished


----------



## Dizzie

This is on aew and their booking, Kingston has been built up poor for his program with moxley, Pentagon Jr vs fenix should have enticed fans but they have been booked like an after thought for most of their time on aew despite both having big potential, nobody cares for janela/kiss and cabana and shouldn't have been part of the tournament against two of your company's bigger stars (hangman/omega). Wardlow's booking has been too stop and start, rather than being pushed prominently as an impressive mid-top card act.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> that’s concern trolling. The lack of moderation around here is why it has flourished


If there was a lack of moderation which I don't think there is it'd probably be technical getting banned before all of us. Who runs around a forum declaring people mentally ill based on their posts on a fan forum? Oofa.


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> lol.
> This forum is becoming deader because trolls like you, Cult, Woods, fabinumbers, and a few of the rest of Khan/AEW haters have the worst and stupidest opinions that you keep repeating and derailing threads with, and for some reason the mods here are non-existent to scold on you on it. You're a toxic miserable person self-indulgent geek who thinks he's chasing people away from AEW, but you're just making them not want to see your dumb shit on this forum that is apparantly full of jealous, bitter morons and geeks.


This is something I never understood. Why you think I am a jelous bitter moron or a geek? Do you know me? 

My biggest insult I do regularely is "AEW fan" and this is something I can say, because the people this is related to are obvious AEW fans or superfans or blind followers (the last two descriptions still are ok). But all people like you do is trying to insult someone you dont even know, just because you are not agreeing with the opposite opinion? 

And why am I toxic miserable person? You know my life? I´m in my late 30s, happily married, own a company and do mid 6 figure profit with that. So where do you get the take that I am miserable? Because I post in a wrestling forum and have some thoughts about what I see? Honestly this is pretty low. Call everyone a hater or whatever, but why go the personal route? I dont see that from "us haters", why do "you fanboys" always have to go that way? All it does is make me laugh.

The most funny thing is, if we would meet somewhere you would either not be able to be so rude to my face or you would actually like me. So why not just stick to the topic of this board and discuss/love/hate wrestling?


----------



## omaroo

It is sad you can't have a valid opinion on AEW without all the negativity.

Maybe there is some trolling but for most part it's valid criticisms.

Any true AEW can would know there are many flaws to this company and isn't all positive as some make it out to be.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> Ah now we're mentally ill. Thanks mate.


It's a more fitting term to describe someone who continuously and hopelessly keeps calling Cody Rhodes a "piece of shit," which is pretty pathetic really since he hasn't done anything vile to anyone personally.

Oh, for the record, @prosperwithdeen left the forum (for the most part) because the AEW section has been littered with constant toxicity/negativity over the past couple of months. He enjoys the AEW product, but he can't have an actual good discussion on here because of people like you are pretty much always doom-and-gloom. Bitter folks like you are luring away the good posters with the excessive criticism/negativity. You should probably listen to how you've conducted yourself (and be aware of how many posts you've made encouraging folks to be negative no matter what) before even being bold enough to claim that the AEW product is "luring away posters." If that were true, everybody on here would be positive and we wouldn't have people like you whining on a daily basis.


----------



## Not Lying

fabi1982 said:


> This is something I never understood. Why you think I am a jelous bitter moron or a geek? Do you know me?
> 
> My biggest insult I do regularely is "AEW fan" and this is something I can say, because the people this is related to are obvious AEW fans or superfans or blind followers (the last two descriptions still are ok). But all people like you do is trying to insult someone you dont even know, just because you are not agreeing with the opposite opinion?
> 
> *And why am I toxic miserable person*? You know my life? I´m in my late 30s, happily married, own a company and do mid 6 figure profit with that. So where do you get the take that I am miserable? Because I post in a wrestling forum and have some thoughts about what I see? Honestly this is pretty low. Call everyone a hater or whatever, but why go the personal route? I dont see that from "us haters", why do "you fanboys" always have to go that way? All it does is make me laugh.
> 
> The most funny thing is, if we would meet somewhere you would either not be able to be so rude to my face or you would actually like me. So why not just stick to the topic of this board and discuss/love/hate wrestling?


I was clearly talking to Chip for this part. Everytime there's less users activity on this site he points it out completely forgetting that he's a cancer to this forum. 

I called you one of the stooges because you're taking shots at AEW in every post of yours lol.


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> I was clearly talking to Chip for this part. Everytime there's less users activity on this site he points it out completely forgetting that he's a cancer to this forum.
> 
> I called you one of the stooges because you're taking shots at AEW in every post of yours lol.


Even if this is the case, why call him a cancer? You ever lost a loved one to cancer? I did and I HATE it when it is used so easily just because "its cool" or "it hurts someone more" than calling him a prick?

And if I am one of the "stooges" honestly all your words are directed to all of us. 

And let me ask you this: I am on this forum two years longer than you, but you have a post count 11 times higher than mine (means 10.000 posts more than me) and you go and call people desperate? And when I now check all your 11.000 posts, wouldnt I find at least 50% of ranting posts? So what makes you better than any one of "us haters" just because we "piss on your favorite toy"?


----------



## Not Lying

fabi1982 said:


> Even if this is the case, why call him a cancer? You ever lost a loved one to cancer? I did and I HATE it when it is used so easily just because "its cool" or "it hurts someone more" than calling him a prick?
> 
> And if I am one of the "stooges" honestly all your words are directed to all of us.
> 
> And let me ask you this: I am on this forum two years longer than you, but you have a post count 11 times higher than mine (means 10.000 posts more than me) and you go and call people desperate? And when I now check all your 11.000 posts, wouldnt I find at least 50% of ranting posts? So what makes you better than any one of "us haters" just because we "piss on your favorite toy"?


Lol, it's an expression, learn it.

I mean idk i am on this forum in ups and downs swings, i could post 200 times a week or 5, i have like an average of 5 a day, i don't see the point here? it's not like i average 100 posts a day.

It's funny then that you've been on this site for 10 years, but you only started posting more often when AEW started *just to shit on it*. Quite ironic.

What makes me better is that i have been objective while you are the ones who call anyonee who disagrees with you fanboys/blind-followers, *always* think your criticism is legit and if you're right about some thing doesn't mean you don't make some bullshit up.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I try.
> 
> Heh. I’ve been labeled a hater and an apologist so many times, I sometimes feel like Cody rHHHodes, incapable of picking a side and burying everyone that is firmly on one side of the aisle or not.
> 
> Except...you know...I’m not a bleached-blonde piece of fucking shit.


is there any way to only ignore your posts when you speak about Cody?

like, is there a setting for it on this board? Cause the rest is normally fine


----------



## imthegame19

Breakdown:
Q1: JB vs Wardlow: 737K, 346K demo
Q2: Mox promo, Kenny vs Sonny, OC and Cody promos: 761K, 391k
Q3: Eddie interview, Penta vs Fenix: 832k, 448K
Q4: Ending of Penta vs Fenix, Miro/Kip promo, DO promo: 822k, 426K
Q5: Hangman vs Cabana: 749k, 391K
Q6: Team Taz promo, MJF/Jericho promo: 676k, 352k
Q7: Britt vs Kilynn: 686K, 341k
Q8: Bucks vs BB vs Reynolds/Silver vs PP: 762K, 407k


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> Lol, it's an expression, learn it.
> 
> I mean idk i am on this forum in ups and downs swings, i could post 200 times a week or 5, i have like an average of 5 a day, i don't see the point here? it's not like i average 100 posts a day.
> 
> It's funny then that you've been on this site for 10 years, but you only started posting more often when AEW started *just to shit on it*. Quite ironic.
> 
> What makes me better is that i have been objective while you are the ones who call anyonee who disagrees with you fanboys/blind-followers, *always* think your criticism is legit and if you're right about some thing doesn't mean you don't make some bullshit up.


I post about things I want to contribute to, so just go to the NXT section or RAW/Smackdown and see for yourself. I would contribute more to the NXT section but there are not that many posters. I just write some thoughts down in the WWE section but because this is filled with blind haters I dont want to contribute much (maybe something you shoudl think about instead of blindly calling people names and worse).

So we call people fanboys and you call them toxic cancer jelous morons *ALL THE TIME *too, so still missing the difference. And just to follow your content why you are the better person, don´t you think the stuff you write is* ALWAYS LEGIT AND THE ONLY WAY TO THINK*? So what is the difference, just because its not your opinion? And you know what, Garty came in to the NXT section couple weeks ago and trolled around and you know what people did? They *IGNORED *him and he stopped trolling.

All in all, what you said is, because your believe your opinion, everyone elses opinion, if not matching yours, is wrong. And isnt that what you would call an ignorant moron?


----------



## Not Lying

fabi1982 said:


> I post about things I want to contribute to, so just go to the NXT section or RAW/Smackdown and see for yourself. I would contribute more to the NXT section but there are not that many posters. I just write some thoughts down in the WWE section but because this is filled with blind haters I dont want to contribute much (maybe something you shoudl think about instead of blindly calling people names and worse).
> 
> So we call people fanboys and you call them toxic cancer jelous morons *ALL THE TIME *too, so still missing the difference. And just to follow your content why you are the better person, don´t you think the stuff you write is* ALWAYS LEGIT AND THE ONLY WAY TO THINK*? So what is the difference, just because its not your opinion? And you know what, Garty came in to the NXT section couple weeks ago and trolled around and you know what people did? They *IGNORED *him and he stopped trolling.
> 
> All in all, what you said is, because your believe your opinion, everyone elses opinion, if not matching yours, is wrong. And isnt that what you would call an ignorant moron?


Again it's funny you've been on this site for 10 years, and active for 1 only where you mostly negative to shit on AEW.

you're the same guy who posted crap like this









AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread 2: OH...


Yah, might not be too strong fyter will recover it though 650?




www.wrestlingforum.com







> Looks like Tony bought 10 new Nielsen boxes 😂😂 but honestly this show doesnt deserve a 100k increase, nor does last weeks show should bring 100k new eyes to the program. But that only means we will get these kind of shows in the future...


In one post you took a shot at Tony, his money, the ratings saying they didn't deserve them. I mean, yeah, so hard to see why I would call you jealous and a hater..


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> Again it's funny you've been on this site for 10 years, and active for 1 only where you mostly negative to shit on AEW.
> 
> you're the same guy who posted crap like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread 2: OH...
> 
> 
> Yah, might not be too strong fyter will recover it though 650?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In one post you took a shot at Tony, his money, the ratings saying they didn't deserve them. I mean, yeah, so hard to see why I would call you jealous and a hater..


Where is that a shot at Tony and his money? This was in regards that one Nielson box counts for 10.000 viewers. You know Tony Khan is the owner, so can make such decisions, to spend money on Nielson boxes. So if you want to show of, do your research. And what is wrong with that post? The show was actually bad if I wrote that.

And in general why should I be jealous about someones success (debatable how much of this is actually his fathers success, but nevertheless), nothing I can do about it and nothing I can do against it. I´m happy that he is successful in his business life and I would tell him that to his face, making a joke about Nielsen boxes, to help my point that the show didnt deserve the increase has nothing to do with his money. 

And I will continue to take a shot at the ratings if they are undeserved, but luckily over the last couple weeks bad shows at least get bad ratings.

Oh and to your first point, I was active all these years, its just discussions like this that let my post count skyrocket, because you want to convince me that I cant have my own thougths (even if they are negative). And as long as you want to try that, I will respond, so in a way, you are a reason I post.

Just see the spoiler post, or even my post in the Dynamite discussion, positive and negative, and isnt that ok? Did you ever see me quote someone who writes a positive comment and not asking for response. Your luck that it is only 1000 posts you have to go through to find it.


----------



## The Wood

If I do one thing bad on here it is sometimes I double-post. I am used to places where this is okay and don’t really understand why people can’t back-up posts. Well, actually, then I think of someone who might spam one hundred posts talking about how they can’t see anything. This is higher traffic than most places, so I do kind of get it, thinking about it.

Anyway, this is just the page I was on.



The Definition of Technician said:


> You people are mentally sick. I can't believe you dare look at your actions, what you've been typing for a year now, and claim "We want AEW to succeed", when you've been criticizing them for any irrelevant thing you could think of.


This is not only insulting and insensitive to people who have real conditions, but it’s just wrong to think that criticism means you want failure. It can improve things, Tech. And there’s _lots_ to improve.



optikk sucks said:


> that’s concern trolling. The lack of moderation around here is why it has flourished


Blaming the mods is becoming a new thing it seems. Great look on _their_ forum. I won’t suck-up. I don’t agree with their banning of me. I would consider it turnabout in a playful way. But then I got banned again and it got lifted. You wanna know why? Because they looked at it, realised it probably wasn’t fair and reversed it because they are _way_ more active than you think.

Sorry to sound like a suck-up, but that’s true. Got a month’s ban lifted without doing a thing because they check and check again. Someone saying “This show didn’t meet my standards as a fan” isn’t cause for that. Insulting people, calling them trolls, implying they are virgins, insinuating they have no life, telling them they’re losers for posting here. THIS is what sucks. You have people engaging in discussion in a discussion forum and you FLAME them for it (that’s what it used to be called, anyway).

You aren’t the good guys. Yes, you love the promotion we’re discussing. But the WWE fans who shame people for thinking Alexa Bliss isn’t Hera incarnate aren’t the goodies either. This is supposed to be a forum. A place to meet and share differing viewpoints. You just get upset that the viewpoints are different. YOU need to get out of the forum then.

This isn’t a fanzine. I try to respect those places by staying out of weekly show discussions when I don’t watch, and wrestlers I want in AEW when I want good talent to sign with MLW or ROH. If you have a private space of “only positive talk”? Cool. I’ll respect that. But discussing it in general? No. This sucks and I’m allowed to say it. Especially when I make my case why. What’s toxic is when you trying to make it sound like there’s one way forward and they’re the only ones doing it. Stop shaming others for being confident in what they believe. Especially when they are passionate fans and contributors to this fine forum. (cheap pop)


----------



## Not Lying

fabi1982 said:


> Where is that a shot at Tony and his money? This was in regards that one Nielson box counts for 10.000 viewers. You know Tony Khan is the owner, so can make such decisions, to spend money on Nielson boxes. So if you want to show of, do your research. And what is wrong with that post? The show was actually bad if I wrote that.
> 
> And in general why should I be jealous about someones success (debatable how much of this is actually his fathers success, but nevertheless), nothing I can do about it and nothing I can do against it. I´m happy that he is successful in his business life and I would tell him that to his face, making a joke about Nielsen boxes, to help my point that the show didnt deserve the increase has nothing to do with his money.
> 
> And I will continue to take a shot at the ratings if they are undeserved, but luckily over the last couple weeks bad shows at least get bad ratings.
> 
> Oh and to your first point, I was active all these years, its just discussions like this that let my post count skyrocket, because you want to convince me that I cant have my own thougths (even if they are negative). And as long as you want to try that, I will respond, so in a way, you are a reason I post.
> 
> Just see the spoiler post, or even my post in the Dynamite discussion, positive and negative, and isnt that ok? Did you ever see me quote someone who writes a positive comment and not asking for response. Your luck that it is only 1000 posts you have to go through to find it.


Lol. So does this make you happy to hear?
Then you're all not really trolls, just terribly negative arrogant people the entire time* who also* just happen to join/decide to be more active on this forum when AEW started. Not trolls, just negative people wanting to complain about anything and everything, make backhanded compliments and talk about a universe of "what ifs i were booking". Cool.


----------



## The Wood

Double post (sorry, mods, but I just saw this and HAD to reply): On fabi1982. Amazing poster. So many great points. It’s not just that they largely agree with me. They’re well-made and smart.

But I signed up in 2003. Or so I’m told by people who say I’ve been posting negative shit for 17 years. The mods know: I signed up then and basically never posted. I was so into wrestling I signed up to a bunch of places and just got lost. I came back here in, what, maybe 2018? I changed my username (with their graces) because other places are largely dead and this place is more cooking than most.

I bring that up because I fucking hate this weird troll shit people do where they go into someone’s post history and monitor where someone posts, how many times, when they signed up, how many likes they give. Fuck you. If I want to post in the AEW forum because I want to talk about AEW, I will. It doesn’t mean I need to talk about brown horses who like the smell of coffee. I’ll talk where I want to talk. It’s not up to you.

And that’s why fabi1982 is probably great. Willing to bet they also got over talking in a quieter place and came here to actually discuss this shit. Now they’re a troll because they didn’t sleep here 14 years ago. Ugh.


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> Lol. So does this make you happy to hear?
> Then you're all not really trolls, just terribly negative arrogant people the entire time* who also* just happen to join/decide to be more active on this forum when AEW started. Not trolls, just negative people wanting to complain about anything and everything, make backhanded compliments and talk about a universe of "what ifs i were booking". Cool.


Scrap the arrogant and I am fine with it, even though the underlining of our opinion is only negative. I have my opinion and this is ok, with regards to AEW I have a mixed opinion, mostly bad in the last couple weeks/month. But I dont troll or dont hate, I write what I think. If you dont like it, do it like so many others and block me and go around a discussion on a discussion board. Thats also fine with me 

EDIT: honestly I watched the first rally in front of the Jaguars statium live on Youtube, around 1am on a weekday in Germany, when I had to wake up at 6am and head to the airport the next morning, because I was actually invested in this new promotion and wanted to see EVERYTHING what they did. Watched every BTE, followed all news etc. So please find someone else who you think only joined/started posting because they hate AEW


----------



## The Wood

Holy shit, are people really upset someone called Cody Rhodes a piece of shit? The dude can call me a tired old cunt. They’re words. It’s trash talk. Listen to the actual points about why Cody is shit.

I don’t like using “sensitive” as an insult. I really don’t. But calling someone a name is not a legit magic curse. Saying “fuck this content” is not an act of violence. No one is trying mutilate Cody by pointing out he sucks. Not even bdon. He’ll just fuck him up and leave in the Mississippi River his dad should have never crossed when promoting.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Definition of Technician said:


> Lol. So does this make you happy to hear?
> Then you're all not really trolls, just terribly negative arrogant people the entire time* who also* just happen to join/decide to be more active on this forum when AEW started. Not trolls, just negative people wanting to complain about anything and everything, make backhanded compliments and talk about a universe of "what ifs i were booking". Cool.


Makes you think they are failed wrestlers/promoters.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> Double post (sorry, mods, but I just saw this and HAD to reply): On fabi1982. Amazing poster. So many great points. It’s not just that they largely agree with me. They’re well-made and smart.
> 
> But I signed up in 2003. Or so I’m told by people who say I’ve been posting negative shit for 17 years. The mods know: I signed up then and basically never posted. I was so into wrestling I signed up to a bunch of places and just got lost. I came back here in, what, maybe 2018? I changed my username (with their graces) because other places are largely dead and this place is more cooking than most.
> 
> I bring that up because I fucking hate this weird troll shit people do where they go into someone’s post history and monitor where someone posts, how many times, when they signed up, how many likes they give. Fuck you. If I want to post in the AEW forum because I want to talk about AEW, I will. It doesn’t mean I need to talk about brown horses who like the smell of coffee. I’ll talk where I want to talk. It’s not up to you.
> 
> And that’s why fabi1982 is probably great. Willing to bet they also got over talking in a quieter place and came here to actually discuss this shit. Now they’re a troll because they didn’t sleep here 14 years ago. Ugh.


Sooo you agree with me 



The Definition of Technician said:


> Lol. So does this make you happy to hear?
> Then you're all not really trolls, just terribly negative arrogant people the entire time* who also* just happen to join/decide to be more active on this forum when AEW started. Not trolls, just negative people wanting to complain about anything and everything, make backhanded compliments and talk about a universe of "what ifs i were booking". Cool.


^ cool 😂



fabi1982 said:


> Scrap the arrogant and I am fine with it, even though the underlining of our opinion is only negative. I have my opinion and this is ok, with regards to AEW I have a mixed opinion, mostly bad in the last couple weeks/month. But I dont troll or dont hate, I write what I think. If you dont like it, do it like so many others and block me and go around a discussion on a discussion board. Thats also fine with me


I'll take out the arrogant for you Fabi, but i won't take you seriously. Coming up with stupid excuses to shit on the company at every turn is something you can do, and the fact you started posting more only for AEW and not for anything nearly as much as WWE the 8 years before, also not really a good for you to not look "troll who joined to hate". But sure, I'll take your word for it, you basically admit it without saying you're a troll. Just troll-like behavior then.


----------



## fabi1982

The Wood said:


> Double post (sorry, mods, but I just saw this and HAD to reply): On fabi1982. Amazing poster. So many great points. It’s not just that they largely agree with me. They’re well-made and smart.
> 
> But I signed up in 2003. Or so I’m told by people who say I’ve been posting negative shit for 17 years. The mods know: I signed up then and basically never posted. I was so into wrestling I signed up to a bunch of places and just got lost. I came back here in, what, maybe 2018? I changed my username (with their graces) because other places are largely dead and this place is more cooking than most.
> 
> I bring that up because I fucking hate this weird troll shit people do where they go into someone’s post history and monitor where someone posts, how many times, when they signed up, how many likes they give. Fuck you. If I want to post in the AEW forum because I want to talk about AEW, I will. It doesn’t mean I need to talk about brown horses who like the smell of coffee. I’ll talk where I want to talk. It’s not up to you.
> 
> And that’s why fabi1982 is probably great. Willing to bet they also got over talking in a quieter place and came here to actually discuss this shit. Now they’re a troll because they didn’t sleep here 14 years ago. Ugh.


Next time I´m over in Australia visiting my bro and his family in Sydney we need to meet up  Sadly based on Covid, this can take some time.


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> I'll take out the arrogant for you Fabi, but i won't take you seriously. Coming up with stupid excuses to shit on the company at every turn is something you can do, and the fact you started posting more only for AEW and not for anything nearly as much as WWE the 8 years before, also not really a good for you to not look "troll who joined to hate". But sure, I'll take your word for it, you basically admit it without saying you're a troll. Just troll-like behavior then.


Why call me a troll? Just dont call me at all if thats what you think about me. How about that? 

I really tried to make it as clear as possible why I do what I do. If that is trolling for you, then you are just wrong or trolled yourself your whole life, because you definitelly also believe in things other dont. So please, just argue with me and not calling me names or a troll. This should be something I can ask a grown up to do, right?


----------



## NathanMayberry

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, for the record, @prosperwithdeen left the forum (for the most part) because the AEW section has been littered with constant toxicity/negativity over the past couple of months.


He was a liar... good riddance


He'll be back soon, they always come back


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Makes you think they are failed wrestlers/promoters.


This is obviously bullshit. But look at the content of what you’re saying. You’re trying to imply that anyone who doesn’t like AEW is a failure at some aspect of the wrestling business. Which is obviously aimed specifically at people, but generally at others. Can you not see how (beyond false) this harmful, but also trolling?

Chip talks about his little promotion. He doesn’t make himself out to be big time. Nor has he even implied he wants to go there. He lives with his missus and only has to deal with wrestlers every now and then. I can’t speak for him, but this might be his absolute limit.

He shares that. Very bravely, honestly. And the people on a generally pretty friendly forum flame him relentlessly and call him a failure because he doesn’t have a billion dollar daddy to validate him.

THIS is trolling. And no one really complains. Maybe because we’re used to it, but also because the ones who whinge about trolling are usually the ones who need help more than punishment.

For honesty: I went through a phase reporting people. I’m not proud of it nor ashamed. I just got sick of being insulted and pointed out where it was clear no content was being delivered. I don’t even know if anything came of it and don’t care. I don’t care who posts here, but seriously, stop pretending the side trying to talk about wrestling on the wrestling forum are the bad guys. It’s such a lie.

None of us scare you off. If anything, we encourage you to reply. Hey, we’re argumentative? GIVE US AN ARGUMENT!!! We’re not the ones shutting people down. We argue, but shutting down is shutting out. That’s you.



fabi1982 said:


> Next time I´m over in Australia visiting my bro and his family in Sydney we need to meet up  Sadly based on Covid, this can take some time.


Oh nice, Australia connections! I have a friend in Germany I am overdue to see. When all this shit clears up, hit me up, because I LOVE Sydney (to visit, haha).


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> Holy shit, are people really upset someone called Cody Rhodes a piece of shit? The dude can call me a tired old cunt. They’re words. It’s trash talk. Listen to the actual points about why Cody is shit.
> 
> I don’t like using “sensitive” as an insult. I really don’t. But calling someone a name is not a legit magic curse. Saying “fuck this content” is not an act of violence. No one is trying mutilate Cody by pointing out he sucks. Not even bdon. He’ll just fuck him up and leave in the Mississippi River his dad should have never crossed when promoting.


Wait, you’re ACTUALLY defending someone being petty and toxic about Cody existing to the point where it (also) derails discussions?

That’s just laughable 😂

For the record, it’s cute that you claimed that the critics “shouldn’t be shamed for sharing their ‘innocent/truthful opinions’” when your side is very guilty of shaming AEW fans for enjoying several aspects of the product that you folks don’t enjoy.


----------



## fabi1982

The Wood said:


> Oh nice, Australia connections! I have a friend in Germany I am overdue to see. When all this shit clears up, hit me up, because I LOVE Sydney (to visit, haha).


Yeah my brother and his family moved there like 8 years ago, will do. Hope to be able to go there with my wife again sometime late 2021.


----------



## 3venflow

imthegame19 said:


> Breakdown:
> Q1: JB vs Wardlow: 737K, 346K demo
> Q2: Mox promo, Kenny vs Sonny, OC and Cody promos: 761K, 391k
> Q3: Eddie interview, Penta vs Fenix: 832k, 448K
> Q4: Ending of Penta vs Fenix, Miro/Kip promo, DO promo: 822k, 426K
> Q5: Hangman vs Cabana: 749k, 391K
> Q6: Team Taz promo, MJF/Jericho promo: 676k, 352k
> Q7: Britt vs Kilynn: 686K, 341k
> Q8: Bucks vs BB vs Reynolds/Silver vs PP: 762K, 407k


Always interesting to see these, even though it's hard to analyse them. Like Q4 had three sets of wrestlers in it. It does look like Penta vs. Fenix did REALLY well though, which is interesting as it was a straight-up wrestling match with cool action. I wonder if AEW should explore more masked/face painted wrestlers, maybe a junior division specifically focused on high quality matches like this? Darby Allin has popped some good ratings too if I remember correctly.


----------



## Not Lying

NathanMayberry said:


> He was a liar... good riddance
> 
> 
> He'll be back soon, they always come back


Another one 😂


----------



## Alright_Mate

imthegame19 said:


> Breakdown:
> Q1: JB vs Wardlow: 737K, 346K demo
> Q2: Mox promo, Kenny vs Sonny, OC and Cody promos: 761K, 391k
> Q3: Eddie interview, Penta vs Fenix: 832k, 448K
> Q4: Ending of Penta vs Fenix, Miro/Kip promo, DO promo: 822k, 426K
> Q5: Hangman vs Cabana: 749k, 391K
> Q6: Team Taz promo, MJF/Jericho promo: 676k, 352k
> Q7: Britt vs Kilynn: 686K, 341k
> Q8: Bucks vs BB vs Reynolds/Silver vs PP: 762K, 407k


That drop for the Jericho/MJF segment   

I had numerous sensitive AEW fans all on my twitter yesterday defending it.

Some goon classed it as entertaining and memorable, yet the rating for it doesn’t reflect that


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

DammitChrist said:


> Wait, you’re ACTUALLY defending someone being petty and toxic about Cody existing to the point where it (also) derails discussions?
> 
> That’s just laughable 😂
> 
> For the record, it’s cute that you claimed that the critics “shouldn’t be shamed for sharing their ‘innoncent/truthful opinions’” when your side is very guilty of shaming AEW fans for enjoying several aspects of the product that you folks don’t enjoy.


You talking about for example @Two Sheds laughing at OC’s fan “in the yellow t-shirt”? Pathetic really.


----------



## fabi1982

Alright_Mate said:


> That drop for the Jericho/MJF segment
> 
> I had numerous sensitive AEW fans all on my twitter yesterday defending it.
> 
> Some goon classed it as entertaining and memorable, yet the rating for it doesn’t reflect that


You know I like to trash on stuff like that like the next guy, but I am not sure that the "entertaining" thing can be reflected in the rating. As I have asked often, I dont know if there are people sitting infront of their Twitter and wait for the message that xyz is on and then go to TNT. All we see is that after Fenix/Penta people tuned out, we cant say for sure it was because of that segment. We can say that it didnt pull in viewers if there isnt a big growth for the whole of next weeks rating, because people who saw this on Youtube (must be billions by now) may check out AEW next week, when it was in fact entertaining.

But yeah I would love to see an honest tweet from Jericho like "demotard" or something like that.


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> He was a liar... good riddance
> 
> 
> He'll be back soon, they always come back


He was a good egg. He’ll be missed.

Hopefully, that poster comes back soon.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Alright_Mate said:


> That drop for the Jericho/MJF segment
> 
> I had numerous sensitive AEW fans all on my twitter yesterday defending it.
> 
> Some goon classed it as entertaining and memorable, yet the rating for it doesn’t reflect that


How can the rating reflect someone’s opinion of being entertaining and memorable? My guy are you skunked?


----------



## Alright_Mate

optikk sucks said:


> How can the rating reflect someone’s opinion of being entertaining and memorable? My guy are you skunked?


Because it shows it wasn’t as entertaining as people thought.

If it was so good it would have posted in the 700-800k region.


----------



## RapShepard

So the show Peaked with Pentagon. A true international treasure.


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> So the show Peaked with Pentagon. A true international treasure.


Hey, that’s cool. I didn’t realize that you were also a fan of Penta El Zero M


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, that’s cool. I didn’t realize that you were also a fan of Penta El Zero M


Since Lucha Underground. Dudes is easily my favorite "this guy is sick" character ever. Such a good heel and tweener.


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> This is something I never understood. Why you think I am a jelous bitter moron or a geek? Do you know me?
> 
> My biggest insult I do regularely is "AEW fan" and this is something I can say, because the people this is related to are obvious AEW fans or superfans or blind followers (the last two descriptions still are ok). But all people like you do is trying to insult someone you dont even know, just because you are not agreeing with the opposite opinion?
> 
> And why am I toxic miserable person? You know my life? I´m in my late 30s, happily married, own a company and do mid 6 figure profit with that. So where do you get the take that I am miserable? Because I post in a wrestling forum and have some thoughts about what I see? Honestly this is pretty low. Call everyone a hater or whatever, but why go the personal route? I dont see that from "us haters", why do "you fanboys" always have to go that way? All it does is make me laugh.
> 
> The most funny thing is, if we would meet somewhere you would either not be able to be so rude to my face or you would actually like me. So why not just stick to the topic of this board and discuss/love/hate wrestling?


I am not the least bit offended by their assumptions about me being “fat, loser neckbeard”. I know this is just a form of projecting as I do feel sorry for wrestling fans that have spent most of their lives being ridiculed for enjoying “fake”, “dumb” shit.

I am 5’10”, 176 pounds as of this very second. I just finished my morning workout. I am married to a smoking hot wife, and not just because she is my wife: she is a classical, dark-haired beauty that turns heads on the daily. I am genuinely paid more money than most of AEW’s single’s roster. I perform amateur magic at my local bar and grill for free as a means to entertain the crowd and engage people, bringing strangers together and forcing them to lower the walls amongst each other and get people talking on those quieter days. I’ve sang karaoke in bars at the beach for the same reason. I am a natural fucking entertainer and life of the party. 

Wrestling does not have to be considered geeky. You don’t have to wear a uniform of all black clothing and stringy hair to identify as a wrestling fan. We CAN demand it be better. We are all wrestling fans, and the more we are honest about the product, the closer we WILL find ourselves to Wrestling Utopia as any promoter not named Vince will listen to the crowds’ opinion. 

Stop shaming people for how they look. Not everyone is going to be as confident in their lot in life as I am. Some very likely do have insecurities about being a “neckbeard” and “loser”. I have been guilty of it myself, which I fucking hate, because again, I am an entertainer and leader. I love to bring people together. 



The Definition of Technician said:


> I was clearly talking to Chip for this part. Everytime there's less users activity on this site he points it out completely forgetting that he's a cancer to this forum.
> 
> I called you one of the stooges because you're taking shots at AEW in every post of yours lol.


People on both sides dig their feet so far into the sand. This is like watching modern day Democrats and Republicans swear that anything but full agreement makes you the enemy.

I’m a stupid libtard in the eyes of Rebulicans and a racist to my Democratic friends. All for having my own opinions that don’t cow tow a party line. 

Y’all mf’ers need to learn to listen each point specifically and to be willing to admit when things aren’t sunshine and lollipops.



The Wood said:


> Holy shit, are people really upset someone called Cody Rhodes a piece of shit? The dude can call me a tired old cunt. They’re words. It’s trash talk. Listen to the actual points about why Cody is shit.
> 
> I don’t like using “sensitive” as an insult. I really don’t. But calling someone a name is not a legit magic curse. Saying “fuck this content” is not an act of violence. No one is trying mutilate Cody by pointing out he sucks. Not even bdon. He’ll just fuck him up and leave in the Mississippi River his dad should have never crossed when promoting.


I’m fucking rolling. 

TELL EM, BDON!


----------



## One Shed

The Definition of Technician said:


> You people are mentally sick. I can't believe you dare look at your actions, what you've been typing for a year now, and claim "We want AEW to succeed", when you've been criticizing them for any irrelevant thing you could think of.


And this post is why you are banned. Personal attacks are uncalled for.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> I am not the least bit offended by their assumptions about me being “fat, loser neckbeard”. I know this is just a form of projecting as I do feel sorry for wrestling fans that have spent most of their lives being ridiculed for enjoying “fake”, “dumb” shit.
> 
> I am 5’10”, 176 pounds as of this very second. I just finished my morning workout. I am married to a smoking hot wife, and not just because she is my wife: she is a classical, dark-haired beauty that turns heads on the daily. I am genuinely paid more money than most of AEW’s single’s roster. I perform amateur magic at my local bar and grill for free as a means to entertain the crowd and engage people, bringing strangers together and forcing them to lower the walls amongst each other and get people talking on those quieter days. I’ve sang karaoke in bars at the beach for the same reason. I am a natural fucking entertainer and life of the party.
> 
> Wrestling does not have to be considered geeky. You don’t have to wear a uniform of all black clothing and stringy hair to identify as a wrestling fan. We CAN demand it be better. We are all wrestling fans, and the more we are honest about the product, the closer we WILL find ourselves to Wrestling Utopia as any promoter not named Vince will listen to the crowds’ opinion.
> 
> Stop shaming people for how they look. Not everyone is going to be as confident in their lot in life as I am. Some very likely do have insecurities about being a “neckbeard” and “loser”. I have been guilty of it myself, which I fucking hate, because again, I am an entertainer and leader. I love to bring people together.
> 
> 
> People on both sides dig their feet so far into the sand. This is like watching modern day Democrats and Republicans swear that anything but full agreement makes you the enemy.
> 
> I’m a stupid libtard in the eyes of Rebulicans and a racist to my Democratic friends. All for having my own opinions that don’t cow tow a party line.
> 
> Y’all mf’ers need to learn to listen each point specifically and to be willing to admit when things aren’t sunshine and lollipops.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m fucking rolling.
> 
> TELL EM, BDON!


I would love to see you do some magic, maybe you can make Cody disappear?


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> And this post is why you are banned. Personal attacks are uncalled for.


He’ll be back  

He’s a much better poster than most of the negative bunch on here (who are easily offended might I add, and that includes you) :cudi


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Alright_Mate said:


> Because it shows it wasn’t as entertaining as people thought.
> 
> If it was so good it would have posted in the 700-800k region.


but he was talking about his own pleasure. Not anyone else’s. You ok there ?


----------



## Erik.

Ah cool. 

So now MJF vs Jericho will be feuding over ratings going down during their segment. Especially as both tend to call themselves rating gods.


----------



## Alright_Mate

optikk sucks said:


> but he was talking about his own pleasure. Not anyone else’s. You ok there ?


Did you see the tweet, no you didn’t.

Was it a memorable segment, yes or no?


----------



## DammitChrist

Erik. said:


> Ah cool.
> 
> So now MJF vs Jericho will be feuding over ratings going down during their segment. Especially as both tend to call themselves rating gods.


Yep, I know this sounds cheesy; but both men can easily improvise and work their way around this fact by claiming that one of them is what’s holding the other back with the ratings.

Chris Jericho can claim that MJF is what’s ‘luring away’ the viewers since he’s the Demo God, and vice versa with the latter being the Ratings Ruler.

Their inevitable feud doesn’t even NEED to be about one of them “tanking” the ratings. This can just be acknowledged with one witty line in a future promo before they move on to something else more intense or important.


----------



## Erik.

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, I know this sounds cheesy; but both men can easily improvise and work their way around this fact by claiming that one of them is what’s holding the other back with the ratings.
> 
> Chris Jericho can claim that MJF is what’s ‘luring away’ the viewers since he’s the Demo God, and vice versa with the latter being the Ratings Ruler.
> 
> Their inevitable feud doesn’t even NEED to be about one of them “tanking” the ratings. This can just be acknowledged with one witty line in a future promo before they move on to something else more intense or important.


Id be AMAZED if it wasn't mentioned. 

Atleast it's something. MJF needs to go over though and Jericho need a break.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> He’ll be back
> 
> He’s a much better poster than most of the negative bunch on here (who are easily offended might I add, and that includes you) :cudi


Personally, I have only reported someone once ever. I do not remember who or for what, but it was bad. I am generally against banning or censorship unless it gets really personal. I have had many good conversations with him specifically and a few poor ones so I hope he does come back.

I am really only offended when my intelligence is insulted as a fan. Tiny guys who look like audience members getting in offense on actual professional looking fighters is a big one. That does not make me a "hater" except for hating stupid. I have mentioned this before, but I have never seen you in the live threads interacting with us as the show airs. If you look there, you would see people like @bdon , @Chip Chipperson , and myself praising the elements of the show we like, specifically the first hour of this week's show. So calling us things like blind haters is intellectually dishonest and provably so. As I have asked you before (with no answer), have you ever had a show you liked but had a character on it or a storyline you hated? Since you have a Game of Thrones themed signature picture, that is a good example. How did you feel about the last two episodes of that show?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Alright_Mate said:


> Did you see the tweet, no you didn’t.
> 
> Was it a memorable segment, yes or no?


Yes obviously. Memorable for the right reasons or wrong reasons is arguable. But we will be talking about it in 10 years.


----------



## La Parka

optikk sucks said:


> Yes obviously. Memorable for the right reasons or wrong reasons is arguable. But we will be talking about it in 10 years.


like Claire Lynch


----------



## 304418

imthegame19 said:


> Breakdown:
> Q1: JB vs Wardlow: 737K, 346K demo
> Q2: Mox promo, Kenny vs Sonny, OC and Cody promos: 761K, 391k
> Q3: Eddie interview, Penta vs Fenix: 832k, 448K
> Q4: Ending of Penta vs Fenix, Miro/Kip promo, DO promo: 822k, 426K
> Q5: Hangman vs Cabana: 749k, 391K
> Q6: Team Taz promo, MJF/Jericho promo: 676k, 352k
> Q7: Britt vs Kilynn: 686K, 341k
> Q8: Bucks vs BB vs Reynolds/Silver vs PP: 762K, 407k


This just proves that Fenix vs Penta should have been the main event, which was obvious to everyone but the bookers apparently.

Also, MJF just does not draw, man. No way he should be drawing that low working with Jericho. Interesting that although it had 11K more in the 18-49 demo than Britt vs KiLynn (and 3rd lowest of the evening), it had 10K less in total viewers (and lowest total viewership of the evening). I wonder why. Even OC & Kiss drew more, and in the case of Kiss, it was a last minute thing.

I say have Jericho feud with Kip & Miro after Full Gear is over, just to get him away from MJF.


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> Personally, I have only reported someone once ever. I do not remember who or for what, but it was bad. I am generally against banning or censorship unless it gets really personal. I have had many good conversations with him specifically and a few poor ones so I hope he does come back.
> 
> I am really only offended when my intelligence is insulted as a fan. Tiny guys who look like audience members getting in offense on actual professional looking fighters is a big one. That does not make me a "hater" except for hating stupid. I have mentioned this before, but I have never seen you in the live threads interacting with us as the show airs. If you look there, you would see people like @bdon , @Chip Chipperson , and myself praising the elements of the show we like, specifically the first hour of this week's show. So calling us things like blind haters is intellectually dishonest and provably so. As I have asked you before (with no answer), have you ever had a show you liked but had a character on it or a storyline you hated? Since you have a Game of Thrones themed signature picture, that is a good example. How did you feel about the last two episodes of that show?


Alright, @Two Sheds , it’s good to know that you didn’t report him.

Oh, I’ve stopped posting on live discussion threads since that horrid update to this forum last December. I 
pretty much just post my live reactions on Discord and on WS nowadays during Raw, Dynamite, and Smackdown (with NXT I watch alone via delayed Dailymotion streams as soon as Dynamite finishes airing on TV).

Yea, I like watching my favorites on Raw and Smackdown. I dislike (seeing) names like Baron Corbin, the IIconics, Lana, Nia Jax, and Mojo Rawley; but I pretty much never post about them because those mediocre/unspectacular talents just aren’t worth my time. I just focus on my top favorites, on wrestlers that I do enjoy watching, and parts of the shows that I liked. I find doing those tasks much more productive for me.

For the record, I don’t watch Game of Thrones. I just picked this as my signature picture last year in the summer because it’s a cool image of Seth Rollins, who is one of my top favorites


----------



## One Shed

Verbatim17 said:


> This just proves that Fenix vs Penta should have been the main event, which was obvious to everyone but the bookers apparently.
> 
> Also, MJF just does not draw, man. No way he should be drawing that low working with Jericho. Interesting that although it had 11K more in the 18-49 demo than Britt vs KiLynn (and 3rd lowest of the evening), it had 10K less in total viewers (and lowest total viewership of the evening). I wonder why. Even OC & Kiss drew more, and in the case of Kiss, it was a last minute thing.
> 
> I say have Jericho feud with Kip & Miro after Full Gear is over, just to get him away from MJF.


It is not like Jericho has done anything for the past 8 months that turned him into a joke shadow of his old self or anything right? Could not be because they dragged MJF into a goofy choreographed intelligence insulting song and dance number right? No, blame MJF!


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> It is not like Jericho has done anything for the past 8 months that turned him into a joke shadow of his old self or anything right? Could not be because they dragged MJF into a goofy choreographed intelligence insulting song and dance number right? No, blame MJF!


Like I said last week, I do not MJF or any other main eventer working with Jericho. He’s pissed about the title and taking a fucking piss all over Tony Khan’s product for it.


----------



## La Parka

Jericho is no longer a draw.

He came in as the biggest name in the company and viewers have seen his comedy and they aren't interested. MJF is set up to fail with this whole Jericho feud. MJF is funny when hes ripping fans or beating on a jobber but doing material from the 1970's with y2grandpa aint it.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Alright, @Two Sheds , it’s good to know that you didn’t report him.
> 
> Oh, I’ve stopped posting on live discussion threads since that horrid update to this forum last December. I
> pretty much just post my live reactions on Discord and on WS nowadays during Raw, Dynamite, and Smackdown (with NXT I watch alone via delayed Dailymotion streams as soon as Dynamite finishes airing on TV).
> 
> Yea, I like watching my favorites on Raw and Smackdown. I dislike (seeing) names like Baron Corbin, the IIconics, Lana, Nia Jax, and Mojo Rawley; but I pretty much never post about them because those mediocre/unspectacular talents just aren’t worth my time. I just focus on my top favorites, on wrestlers that I do enjoy watching, and parts of the shows that I liked. I find doing those tasks much more productive for me.
> 
> For the record, I don’t watch Game of Thrones. I just picked this as my signature picture last year in the summer because it’s a cool image of Seth Rollins, who is one of my top favorites


OK, I mean I get it, you want to be a positive person. At least we agree that Nia Jax and Baron Corbin are horrible heh. For me, I think WWE has conditioned me to just expect stupid though. I do watch RAW most weeks and I am in that live thread too, but rarely post that much in other WWE threads because, as you said, it is not worth my time. I like talking about the show with other people watching live in real time though. I rarely watch Smackdown because it is on Friday.

I look at AEW at a high level in the way Jim Cornette described it as (paraphrasing) "The likely last serious attempt at creating a new national wrestling promotion in our lifetimes." I think that is why he and some of us get worked up when we see them doing stupid things because of what they could be and they DO have the tools to be great whereas we expect Vince to be Vince even though WWE certainly has the talent to be a top program again. People can hate on Cornette all they want but no one can say the dude is not passionate about wrestling which is why he gets worked up the way he does. I think all of us have the same goal here of wanting a product they like, we just disagree on the details. I think there really are just maybe 1-2 true blind haters on here. Other than a true psychopath or paid agent of a competitor, no one spends a lot of time on something they truly hate. I have had many, many good conversations with @Cult03, @bdon, @Chip Chipperson, @El Hammerstone, @The Wood and also @optikk sucks, @The Definition of Technician, @RapShepard, @prosperwithdeen and many others. None of them are blind haters or blind defenders. We praise what we like and hate on things we hate. Simple as that. Some people though will hate ANYTHING they do or defend even the dumbest stuff they do, which is annoying.

Once COVID is over and there are actual things to do outside again, I think things overall will improve. I think a lot of the current negativity is from being stuck inside and wanting at least to be entertained. I definitely am guilty of falling into that when at the end of the day it does not affect my personal life. I just stopped watching WWE for a long time when it got more bad than good. I hope AEW does not go the same path.

I liked Game of Thrones a lot but I hated how they ended it and so did a lot of fans. At least you agree with me it is possible to like a show but hate certain characters or elements of it.


----------



## 304418

Two Sheds said:


> It is not like Jericho has done anything for the past 8 months that turned him into a joke shadow of his old self or anything right? Could not be because they dragged MJF into a goofy choreographed intelligence insulting song and dance number right? No, blame MJF!


Maybe it’s because MJF seems to consistently have the lowest drawing segment.

Show me MJF’s highest drawing segment since Dynamite started airing.


----------



## One Shed

Verbatim17 said:


> Maybe it’s because MJF seems to consistently have the lowest drawing segment.
> 
> Show me MJF’s highest drawing segment since Dynamite started airing.


I honestly have not done the analysis. It is not like MJF has had a ton of matches on the show either. I dunno, I just think to automatically blame MJF vs the guy who has turned himself into a complete joke over the past 8 months vs his top level stuff he did up until then is a bit misplaced.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Wait, you’re ACTUALLY defending someone being petty and toxic about Cody existing to the point where it (also) derails discussions?
> 
> That’s just laughable 😂
> 
> For the record, it’s cute that you claimed that the critics “shouldn’t be shamed for sharing their ‘innocent/truthful opinions’” when your side is very guilty of shaming AEW fans for enjoying several aspects of the product that you folks don’t enjoy.


This post is sheer insanity.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> This post is sheer insanity.


Alright, can you please at least respond to my other responses to you outside of the AEW section?

I'm not being 'insane' at all there


----------



## Chip Chipperson

A lot to unpack here, much of it involving me so let me respond.



omaroo said:


> It is sad you can't have a valid opinion on AEW without all the negativity.
> 
> Maybe there is some trolling but for most part it's valid criticisms.
> 
> Any true AEW can would know there are many flaws to this company and isn't all positive as some make it out to be.


I can't speak for everyone but I am in a discord where I get to be away from the forum and I've gotten to know and talk more with Cult03, El Hammerstone, Two Sheds and Bdon in there. All four of them are labelled trolls but I can genuinely 100% confirm they're not.

We were in there this past episode praising some stuff, shitting on some stuff just like we do on this board. It's all genuine but nobody is in there saying "Oi lets troll the forum and shit on this segment that was really good by pretending it was bad! It'll be awesome!"

It just doesn't go like that.



The Definition of Technician said:


> I was clearly talking to Chip for this part. Everytime there's less users activity on this site he points it out completely forgetting that he's a cancer to this forum.
> 
> I called you one of the stooges because you're taking shots at AEW in every post of yours lol.


First, even using "cancer of the forum" as an expression is really quite mean. We need to keep in mind that we don't know one another on here in the real world. The person you call the cancer of a forum could have a mother, father, sister, brother or other family member who has died from cancer. Hell, I could have cancer myself and be struggling through chemotherapy.

Luckily I don't really have cancer in my family and am currently healthy but I can't imagine how upsetting it'd be for someone to be called cancer if that was something they struggled with in some capacity.

As for Fabi, how can he be one of our stooges? I like his posts but I don't actually know him. Do you think all of us "haters" just congregate somewhere and plan this out? Do the more known posters have underlings who do their bidding for them like some kind of superhero movie? Come on bro...



The Definition of Technician said:


> Again it's funny you've been on this site for 10 years, and active for 1 only where you mostly negative to shit on AEW.
> 
> you're the same guy who posted crap like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread 2: OH...
> 
> 
> Yah, might not be too strong fyter will recover it though 650?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In one post you took a shot at Tony, his money, the ratings saying they didn't deserve them. I mean, yeah, so hard to see why I would call you jealous and a hater..


Jokes are not allowed people. This is a joke free zone!



The Definition of Technician said:


> Lol. So does this make you happy to hear?
> Then you're all not really trolls, just terribly negative arrogant people the entire time* who also* just happen to join/decide to be more active on this forum when AEW started. Not trolls, just negative people wanting to complain about anything and everything, make backhanded compliments and talk about a universe of "what ifs i were booking". Cool.


This post is truly baffling. First, how do you know we're arrogant? Believe it or not (And some won't) but I generally don't like to be praised and shy away from it. It's nice to hear someone compliment me but if it becomes excessive or "gushing" (Which to be honest only generally comes from family or my Mrs) I shy away from that. If I was arrogant I'd just toss it in the "I'm better than you" spank bank but at times it makes me uncomfortable.

Second, I don't think any of us decided to just hate on AEW. I went back a year on this board once in a debate and noticed even The Wood who is one of the more well known "haters" on this forum was being incredibly positive towards AEW and their product. He can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe he predicted AEW to do numbers beating out the WWE. I felt positive towards AEW before they started running poor shows and I'm sure everyone else did. There is no reason for us just to blindly hate something, we're not people who have hated Tony Khan for years and now have the opportunity to bash him.

Also, you might not like the booking what ifs but when Wood, Cult etc talk about that stuff I like to read it and I know others do as well. If you don't like it then you don't have to read it, just scroll on by.



optikk sucks said:


> Makes you think they are failed wrestlers/promoters.


See, now this is a jab at me. I don't like AEW all the time (Although I keep mentioning I gave a fair rating to the show this week and it gets ignored) so I must be some jealous failed promoter just looking to shit on Tony Khan?

It doesn't work that way. If I was angry and bitter wouldn't I hate one of the local promotions? Again, as I said just a few days ago jealousy generally stems from realistic situations. I'm not jealous of Brad Pitt because he was banging prime Jennifer Aniston but I probably was jealous at times in life if a guy started banging my high school crush or whatever.

Also, what is the definition of failure? Not being Tony? If that's what it is then quite literally every promoter except NJPW and Vince are failures based on nothing but Tony having more money backing him.



The Wood said:


> Chip talks about his little promotion. He doesn’t make himself out to be big time. Nor has he even implied he wants to go there. He lives with his missus and only has to deal with wrestlers every now and then. I can’t speak for him, but this might be his absolute limit.
> 
> He shares that. Very bravely, honestly. And the people on a generally pretty friendly forum flame him relentlessly and call him a failure because he doesn’t have a billion dollar daddy to validate him.
> 
> THIS is trolling. And no one really complains. Maybe because we’re used to it, but also because the ones who whinge about trolling are usually the ones who need help more than punishment.


Thank you, I appreciate this post and that someone has noticed this.

I'm not sure if it's jealousy, I'm not sure if it's a feeling of "Oh he must be shit if he doesn't like AEW" but you're right in that we're a very small operation. Myself and my girlfriend do the flyer drops and postering for the events, we store the majority of the company (Everything except the ring which we have to store at my girlfriends parents house because we don't have the room) in the spare room of our 2 bedroom apartment and we love doing it (Obviously me more but her also)

She loves being able to get out there in the community (We've done stuff for NAIDOC, Conventions, Fairs etc) and loves meeting shop owners who will let us poster or just want to chat wrestling (She isn't really a fan but she likes finding people who share my passion) whilst I generally do the business side of things and deal with the talent. On show day she's the one taking your tickets, helping put the seats out etc.

My point is we're an independent and most of them are like this but I could've come on and bullshitted. I could've said we're a successful local business that draws 200 people a show and has a kick ass wrestling school but as you pointed out I've tried to be honest and not leave anything in the dark ever. Sometimes we lose money (Which is okay, finances aren't an issue right now), sometimes we make money (Which is great), sometimes we break even. I've had successful shows, unsuccessful shows and everything in between.

Success for me is subjective though. Around this time last year me, my girlfriend, a few of the wrestlers that I am friends with and a couple staff members (Cameraman, Referee) got to take a trip out to a little village and perform at a fair, we got paid to pretty much all have a weekend together, hang out at a fair and spend time with our friends doing what we love whilst engaging with a small local community that probably had never seen live professional wrestling before. To me that is true success.

Oh and also, most of the people on here have been really cool about it. I get about one message a week asking me to post some stuff or PM some stuff to people which unfortunately I won't ever be comfortable with because of the 5-10 haters/trolls of me. I genuinely have fears that a dude like Technical, Dammitchrist, Pippen etc would dox me and harass me in "the real world" based on my opinions on a forum. How sad is it that I need to take those precautions?



bdon said:


> I am not the least bit offended by their assumptions about me being “fat, loser neckbeard”. I know this is just a form of projecting as I do feel sorry for wrestling fans that have spent most of their lives being ridiculed for enjoying “fake”, “dumb” shit.
> 
> I am 5’10”, 176 pounds as of this very second. I just finished my morning workout. I am married to a smoking hot wife, and not just because she is my wife: she is a classical, dark-haired beauty that turns heads on the daily. I am genuinely paid more money than most of AEW’s single’s roster. I perform amateur magic at my local bar and grill for free as a means to entertain the crowd and engage people, bringing strangers together and forcing them to lower the walls amongst each other and get people talking on those quieter days. I’ve sang karaoke in bars at the beach for the same reason. I am a natural fucking entertainer and life of the party.
> 
> Wrestling does not have to be considered geeky. You don’t have to wear a uniform of all black clothing and stringy hair to identify as a wrestling fan. We CAN demand it be better. We are all wrestling fans, and the more we are honest about the product, the closer we WILL find ourselves to Wrestling Utopia as any promoter not named Vince will listen to the crowds’ opinion.
> 
> Stop shaming people for how they look. Not everyone is going to be as confident in their lot in life as I am. Some very likely do have insecurities about being a “neckbeard” and “loser”. I have been guilty of it myself, which I fucking hate, because again, I am an entertainer and leader. I love to bring people together.


I think most of us probably do fit the lifestyle you mentioned Bdon. Granted my girlfriend has never been commented on by WF members for being stunningly beautiful she gets her fair share of Instagram likes and looks in the streets as well. Me? I'm just a typical looking dude as well, some people find me hot, some people don't but that isn't really important anymore being in an almost 5 year relationship. I'm not rich but also not poor, combined me and the Mrs have a six figure income and for right now that works for us. I have never bought into "OH THAT POSTER IS A NECKBEARD" or "OH THAT POSTER MUST BE A VIRGIN!". I guarantee most of us are just normal looking people.

Also, damn Bdon you the VIP in the entertainment game. Amateur magic AND karaoke AT THE BEACH? Please be my best friend that sounds awesome as fuck

TELL EM BDON!



DammitChrist said:


> He’ll be back
> 
> He’s a much better poster than most of the negative bunch on here (who are easily offended might I add, and that includes you) :cudi


It's funny because he's a negative poster himself. The only difference is that he's negative about different things (We're negative about the shows, he's negative about us and our views)



optikk sucks said:


> Yes obviously. Memorable for the right reasons or wrong reasons is arguable. But we will be talking about it in 10 years.


No we won't. It will be forgotten about this time next year or at best used as an example of Wrestlecrap or AEW doing stupid things and not knowing what mainstream audience wants.



DammitChrist said:


> Alright, @Two Sheds , it’s good to know that you didn’t report him.


Why is this good to know? Admittedly I've only hit report once and that's when MontyCora made a pretty disgusting comment about my significant other but if someone is breaking the rules they kind of deserve to be reported and suspended.

The rules aren't hard, you can attack someones opinion but not them personally. I'm glad someone reported Technical because his comments were really unkind and he's had many chances to not personally attack people but never can stop. A bit like you...


----------



## bdon

@Chip Chipperson 

I sing for shit, but I am an entertainer and able to sell the performance enough that the vocals are completely overlooked. I call it Sleight of Ear.


----------



## fabi1982

@Chip Chipperson you dont have to defend yourself for the ones quoted, but it is really sad that you dont share your promotion on pm‘s because some people in here made you afraid of doing it.

and to the one being banned, funny thing is he shits all about WWE in the WWE section but is offended when he receives what he gives.

anyways, @bdon @Chip Chipperson great to actually know something about your real life, makes me connect even more. First meet @Chip Chipperson and @The Wood in Australia, then sing with @bdon at the beach in the US 😂😂


----------



## Klitschko

I wonder what the ratings will be for the show next week? Looks like a good show, but taped episodes usually do less if I remember correctly.


----------



## The Wood

I want them to fucking tank. They need to do better. Way better. The metrics, subjectively measly as they are, give them too much comfort.


----------



## The Wood

They won’t do this bad, but I want them to get <600k and be the first show since this “war” started to do that.


----------



## Klitschko

The Wood said:


> They won’t do this bad, but I want them to get <600k and be the first show since this “war” started to do that.


Honestly, I'm hoping they do less then 600k, but realistically, somewhere less then 650k. Sure they put on a decent show this past week according to most people, but they need to know that one good week does not excuse the shit they fed us the last few weeks. 

If I had it my way, their ratings would drop for a bit and have them really step up their game like they have proven before they can. Fuck this whole there is a pandemic going on and we are holding off our best stuff for when the fans come back. Fans probably won't return in any decent capacity until the end of 2021 at the earliest. Fans or no fans, do your best each week to put on a great show AEW. Give me back the AEW from last year to Revolution of this year And stop pushing comedy acts like OC as one of your top stars.


----------



## The Wood

Klitschko said:


> Honestly, I'm hoping they do less then 600k, but realistically, somewhere less then 650k. Sure they put on a decent show this past week according to most people, but they need to know that one good week does not excuse the shit they fed us the last few weeks.
> 
> If I had it my way, their ratings would drop for a bit and have them really step up their game like they have proven before they can. Fuck this whole there is a pandemic going on and we are holding off our best stuff for when the fans come back. Fans probably won't return in any decent capacity until the end of 2021 at the earliest. Fans or no fans, do your best each week to put on a great show AEW. Give me back the AEW from last year to Revolution of this year And stop pushing comedy acts like OC as one of your top stars.


My prediction is in the 800k range. People are fucking stupid. And the rating was low this week, so a lot of people probably didn’t even watch to know it happened.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> Makes you think they are failed wrestlers/promoters.


Can honestly admit that I tried and failed haha. I have a mate who took me along to some lessons and it hurt far more than I thought it would so I decided this hobby wasn't worth it and went back to playing footy. Great experience though and I'm happy I tried.

Anyway why are we talking about us again? Reckon we could get back on topic?


----------



## DammitChrist

Nah, they should keep pushing Orange Cassidy on TV tbh. You don't ignore a fan favorite like him just because the vocal minority have this weird hatred over the guy being an entertaining character.



Chip Chipperson said:


> Oh and also, most of the people on here have been really cool about it. I get about one message a week asking me to post some stuff or PM some stuff to people which unfortunately I won't ever be comfortable with because of the 5-10 haters/trolls of me.* I genuinely have fears that a dude like Technical, Dammitchrist, Pippen etc would dox me and harass me in "the real world" based on my opinions on a forum. How sad is it that I need to take those precautions?*


You didn't think I wouldn't catch that part, did you? Seriously, WHY in the fuck would I do that?

That's beneath me. You obnoxiously preach about how you're offended over some folks 'personally attacking' your side on here, but yet here you are coming up with stupid shit like this where you think I'd even care about you enough to personally stalk you via 'doxing;' which I clearly don't. Fuck off with those fears and accusations because that's not what I do/



> It's funny because he's a negative poster himself. The only difference is that he's negative about different things (We're negative about the shows, he's negative about us and our views)


No, he's really not a negative poster. If you've known that guy on here since 2016, then you'd know he's FAR from a negative person. There's a big difference between being passionate and actually being negative. (For the record, you making hundreds of redundant essays on here where you shit on the product in various ways over the span of a few days doesn't make you "passionate." It makes you negative to be around with).

The only reason why he even became 'negative' on here recently is because some of you negative hacks made him that way. Your excessive criticisms and redundant arguments frustrated him. There's also the fact that you're luring away good posters from this section due to your constant presence on here, but hey, we're apparently the "hive-mind" bunch on here 😂



> *Why is this good to know?* Admittedly I've only hit report once and that's when MontyCora made a pretty disgusting comment about my significant other but if someone is breaking the rules they kind of deserve to be reported and suspended.


It's good to know because now I'm aware that @Two Sheds isn't easily offended to the point where he resorted to reporting him. Plus, he's not the primary reason why there's one less good poster to have an actual discussion with.



> The rules aren't hard, you can attack someones opinion but not them personally. I'm glad someone reported Technical because his comments were really unkind and he's had many chances to not personally attack people but never can stop. A bit like you...


Weren't you the one who just accused me of being willing enough to "dox" you? You really want to go with the "you can attack someone's opinion but not them personally" path? 😂

Anyway, it's cool to know that you're an easily offended individual who got worked up by what he said earlier today (even though he made some reasonable points in some areas). I'm glad at the fact that he'll be back soon.


----------



## Cult03

Chip Chipperson said:


> Why is this good to know? Admittedly I've only hit report once and that's when MontyCora made a pretty disgusting comment about my significant other but if someone is breaking the rules they kind of deserve to be reported and suspended.
> 
> The rules aren't hard, you can attack someones opinion but not them personally. I'm glad someone reported Technical because his comments were really unkind and he's had many chances to not personally attack people but never can stop. A bit like you...


I report people often now, because I am sick of trying to discuss wrestling and having it turn into a conversation about us. They act like reporting is bad and yet I've been reported and both justly and unjustly banned for insulting someone or responding to their insults. I'm tired of having to justify my opinions by arguing who I am and not arguing why the wrestling is good or bad. They're claiming we are easily offended now? Nah, I'm just bored. And I refuse to listen to anyone saying Optikk or Definition are good posters. They haven't been for a long time. They're admitted trolls.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> They won’t do this bad, but I want them to get <600k and be the first show since this “war” started to do that.


NXT already dipped that low.


----------



## DammitChrist

Cult03 said:


> I report people often now, because I am sick of trying to discuss wrestling and having it turn into a conversation about us. They act like reporting is bad and yet I've been reported and both justly and unjustly banned for insulting someone or responding to their insults. I'm tired of having to justify my opinions by arguing who I am and not arguing why the wrestling is good or bad. They're claiming we are easily offended now? Nah, I'm just bored. And I refuse to listen to anyone saying Optikk or Definition are good posters. They haven't been for a long time. They're admitted trolls.


Ok, I see that it must’ve been you apparently. It’s a shame that you’re so weak and sensitive to reading posts from folks who passionately support the product. You haven’t changed at all.

For the record, the difference between you and him is that he was actually a good poster to discuss wrestling with. I can’t say the same about you.


----------



## Cult03

DammitChrist said:


> Ok, I see that it must’ve been you apparently. It’s a shame that you’re so weak and sensitive to reading posts from folks who passionately support the product. You haven’t changed at all.
> 
> For the record, the difference between you and him is that he was actually a good poster to discuss wrestling with. I can’t say the same about you.


Haha not weak and sensitive at all, just want to get back to the reason we are all here. Pippen, definition, you etc. just can't stop talking about us and the only way to end it is to have a break for a bit. It's honestly become a joke at this point. The entire board needs the name changed to CultWoodChip discussion. Just a reminder, what's the name of this thread?


----------



## DammitChrist

Cult03 said:


> Haha not weak and sensitive at all, just want to get back to the reason we are all here. Pippen, definition, you etc. just can't stop talking about us and the only way to end it is to have a break for a bit. It's honestly become a joke at this point. The entire board needs the name changed to CultWoodChip discussion. Just a reminder, what's the name of this thread?


Ok, you don’t want this entire board/thread to be about you guys?

How about some of you folks quit luring away posters with your excessive negativity, quit reporting the passionate fans who enjoy the product, and quit making the topics about yourselves then (including talking/bragging about being a failed promoter)?

You’ll get more of a discussion that you seem to be begging for.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, they should keep pushing Orange Cassidy on TV tbh. You don't ignore a fan favorite like him just because the vocal minority have this weird hatred over the guy being an entertaining character.
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't think I wouldn't catch that part, did you? Seriously, WHY in the fuck would I do that?
> 
> That's beneath me. You obnoxiously preach about how you're offended over some folks 'personally attacking' your side on here, but yet here you are coming up with stupid shit like this where you think I'd even care about you enough to personally stalk you via 'doxing;' which I clearly don't. Fuck off with those fears and accusations because that's not what I do/
> 
> 
> 
> No, he's really not a negative poster. If you've known that guy on here since 2016, then you'd know he's FAR from a negative person. There's a big difference between being passionate and actually being negative. (For the record, you making hundreds of redundant essays on here where you shit on the product in various ways over the span of a few days doesn't make you "passionate." It makes you negative to be around with).
> 
> The only reason why he even became 'negative' on here recently is because some of you negative hacks made him that way. Your excessive criticisms and redundant arguments frustrated him. There's also the fact that you're luring away good posters from this section due to your constant presence on here, but hey, we're apparently the "hive-mind" bunch on here 😂
> 
> 
> 
> It's good to know because now I'm aware that @Two Sheds isn't easily offended to the point where he resorted to reporting him. Plus, he's not the primary reason why there's one less good poster to have an actual discussion with.
> 
> 
> 
> Weren't you the one who just accused me of being willing enough to "dox" you? You really want to go with the "you can attack someone's opinion but not them personally" path? 😂
> 
> Anyway, it's cool to know that you're an easily offended individual who got worked up by what he said earlier today (even though he made some reasonable points in some areas). I'm glad at the fact that he'll be back soon.


I've never stated I'm offended. The only time someone said something offensive to me was MontyCora implying he'd rape my girlfriend so I hit the report button and he got suspended, came back a week later instantly made another thread about me and got banned. Good riddance.

With the doxing of course I'm not saying you'd 100% do that but you just seem to have enough raging dislike/hatred towards me to do that. Regardless, even if not you others would and with Pippen living in Sydney and my home address being a matter of public record due to business registration documents it's not something I want.

The last thing I need is a guy like Pippen finding out my address, turning up at my door and harassing me.




DammitChrist said:


> Ok, I see that it must’ve been you apparently. It’s a shame that you’re so weak and sensitive to reading posts from folks who passionately support the product. You haven’t changed at all.
> 
> For the record, the difference between you and him is that he was actually a good poster to discuss wrestling with. I can’t say the same about you.


At the end of the day reporting is how some of these people learn. Optikk used to be insufferable every time ratings coming out, someone reported, he got banned and he became more tolerable.



DammitChrist said:


> Ok, you don’t want this entire board/thread to be about you guys?
> 
> How about some of you folks quit luring away posters with your excessive negativity, quit reporting the passionate fans who enjoy the product, and quit making the topics about yourselves then (including talking/bragging about being a failed promoter)?
> 
> You’ll get more of a discussion that you seem to be begging for.


I'm just going to ask here and hopefully you'll answer properly.

How exactly am I a failed promoter? Think carefully on this one.


----------



## Kentucky34

Why should posters be abused for not liking AEW?


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Ok, you don’t want this entire board/thread to be about you guys?
> 
> How about some of you folks quit luring away posters with your excessive negativity, quit reporting the passionate fans who enjoy the product, and quit making the topics about yourselves then (including talking/bragging about being a failed promoter)?
> 
> You’ll get more of a discussion that you seem to be begging for.


Can you actually discuss the ratings, buys or other business metrics, please? I’m getting sick of you going on and on about other people’s opinions because you don’t like them.

And, as for Orange Cassidy, it’s not the vocal minority that don’t like him. Most wrestling fans don’t like AEW. Most watch SmackDown. OC is even polarising for the 750k or so that watch AEW. This show’s audience isn’t huge.

Ask anyone who has a wrestling podcast or a wrestling forum where the traffic is. It’s in WWE. Stop pretending this thing is adored by wrestling fans. It’s not. It’s mathematically impossible.


----------



## Klitschko

To make this thread a little less angry, I like Bdon. Probably my favorite poster on here. Very in the middle when it comes to AEW and his rants on Cody are epic. 

Also, OC sucks.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> Ok, you don’t want this entire board/thread to be about you guys?
> 
> How about some of you folks quit luring away posters with your excessive negativity, quit reporting the passionate fans who enjoy the product, and quit making the topics about yourselves then (including talking/bragging about being a failed promoter)?
> 
> You’ll get more of a discussion that you seem to be begging for.


There is nothing wrong with criticising AEW. 

WWE is heavily criticised in other parts of the forum. Do you whine about that?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> To make this thread a little less angry, I like Bdon. Probably my favorite poster on here. Very in the middle when it comes to AEW and his rants on Cody are epic.
> 
> Also, OC sucks.


Bdon is so fucking over that he'd pop a million viewers on TNT

What a star, do you know he's an amateur magician and sings karaoke just to bring people together?

Fucking tell em Bdon...you tell em old pal


----------



## bdon

Klitschko said:


> To make this thread a little less angry, I like Bdon. Probably my favorite poster on here. Very in the middle when it comes to AEW and his rants on Cody are epic.
> 
> Also, OC sucks.





Chip Chipperson said:


> Bdon is so fucking over that he'd pop a million viewers on TNT
> 
> What a star, do you know he's an amateur magician and sings karaoke just to bring people together?
> 
> Fucking tell em Bdon...you tell em old pal


👍🏻

^^^
Does this make me a superstar and deserving of 3 MIDCARD (fuck you, Cody, you POS. It’s a midcard title, dipshit, no matter how many smoke and mirrors you use) TNT Title bouts in 5 weeks?

...

That about covers it. GOT TO GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT!!!

Tell em, Bdon!!!


----------



## bdon

In all seriousness, thanks @Klitschko , I try to be as honest and fair as I can. I’m a Libra. Lol


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Bdon, this is your Daniel Bryan moment, you're over with both the loyalists and haters creating some common ground in this fierce war. All you need is your Triple H moment


----------



## Klitschko

I bet Bdon could beat the shit out of Cody in real life. Could probably use that twig OC as a baseball bat.


----------



## The Wood

I know we want the bdon/Cody fight, but can you just sign a short-term deal, bdon? I’d rather see you freed up for MLW. Go after Jacob Fatu’s massive reign.


----------



## Klitschko

The Wood said:


> I know we want the bdon/Cody fight, but can you just sign a short-term deal, bdon? I’d rather see you freed up for MLW. Go after Jacob Fatu’s massive reign.


And eventually he can be the first world champion of The Rock's wrestling company. 

Rocky building up that home grown talent already.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Tony, I'll never be negative again if you can sneak a "tell em Bdon" onto BTE, Dark or Dynamite.


----------



## bdon

Only if introductions refer to me as “The LeCaptain...BDON!!”

I’ll come out wearing the shoulder tassels, suit pants, and all.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Tony, I'll never be negative again if you can sneak a "tell em Bdon" onto BTE, Dark or Dynamite.


I’d mark the fuck out for AEW. Lmao


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> I’d mark the fuck out for AEW. Lmao


What if the segment was Cody cops a beating and Brandi is shouting at his attackers only for Cody to shout

"Tell em Bdon! Err Brandi!"

It would be a shout out but it'd be from your arch nemesis and his untalented wife

What do?


----------



## Klitschko

Chip Chipperson said:


> What if the segment was Cody cops a beating and Brandi is shouting at his attackers only for Cody to shout
> 
> "Tell em Bdon! Err Brandi!"
> 
> It would be a shout out but it'd be from your arch nemesis and his untalented wife
> 
> What do?


Fucking Cody making Bdon's moment all about himself again.


----------



## The Wood

Klitschko said:


> And eventually he can be the first world champion of The Rock's wrestling company.
> 
> Rocky building up that home grown talent already.


Hell yeah, I’m down. Him and Hammerstone in the tournament finals. bdon beats Fatu, Aldis and Rush along the way (MLW, NWA and ROH Champion). He throws them all down, gets a new belt, Rock hits on his wife and gets laid out. Rock vs. bdon in the Toronto Sky Dome for bdon Dynasty. He’ll put Hogan’s pops against Rock to shame.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> Fucking Cody making Bdon's moment all about himself again.


The meltdown would be epic as Cody once again puts himself with a hot independent act


----------



## The Wood

Jericho is going to want to schmooze into that.


----------



## Klitschko

The Wood said:


> Hell yeah, I’m down. Him and Hammerstone in the tournament finals. bdon beats Fatu, Aldis and Rush along the way (MLW, NWA and ROH Champion). He throws them all down, gets a new belt, Rock hits on his wife and gets laid out. Rock vs. bdon in the Toronto Sky Dome for bdon Dynasty. He’ll put Hogan’s pops against Rock to shame.


You forgot Cody sitting in the audience crying because he will never be the star Bdon is, and bleeding........for some reason.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> Jericho is going to want to schmooze into that.


Oh shit it's just hit me...

Bdon and Jericho will take one another on in a karaoke contest. Bdon will sing to bring people together whilst Jericho the Grinch sings for the cash prize only

Guest judge for the contest? That god damn politician Cody Rhodes!


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> What if the segment was Cody cops a beating and Brandi is shouting at his attackers only for Cody to shout
> 
> "Tell em Bdon! Err Brandi!"
> 
> It would be a shout out but it'd be from your arch nemesis and his untalented wife
> 
> What do?


What if right before Cody beats Kenny in 90 seconds for the title, Cody looks right into the camera and says "Tell 'em THIS bdon."


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Two Sheds said:


> What is right before Cody beats Kenny in 90 seconds for the title, Cody looks right into the camera and says "Tell 'em THIS bdon."


Forum would have a meltdown


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> What if the segment was Cody cops a beating and Brandi is shouting at his attackers only for Cody to shout
> 
> "Tell em Bdon! Err Brandi!"
> 
> It would be a shout out but it'd be from your arch nemesis and his untalented wife
> 
> What do?


I’d actually laugh at this one. It’d be such a great nod and subtle breaking of the 4th wall. 


Klitschko said:


> Fucking Cody making Bdon's moment all about himself again.


Until I realized that he IS trying to steal Chip’s fucking catchphrase!


The Wood said:


> Hell yeah, I’m down. Him and Hammerstone in the tournament finals. bdon beats Fatu, Aldis and Rush along the way (MLW, NWA and ROH Champion). He throws them all down, gets a new belt, Rock hits on his wife and gets laid out. Rock vs. bdon in the Toronto Sky Dome for bdon Dynasty. He’ll put Hogan’s pops against Rock to shame.


So long as this massive push is leading to me being able to put over someone more deserving in the end, then im down. I care about the business, not myself. Unlike that fucking bleach blonde dipshit, Cody rHHHodes.


Chip Chipperson said:


> The meltdown would be epic as Cody once again puts himself with a hot independent act


If this push is happening, I won’t be working with MIDCARD acts. (ACCEPT YOUR LOT IN LIFE AS THE LEAST ATHLETIC RHODES TO EVER LIVE, YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT)



The Wood said:


> Jericho is going to want to schmooze into that.


Only if he isn’t trying to get “creative”.


Klitschko said:


> You forgot Cody sitting in the audience crying because he will never be the star Bdon is, and bleeding........for some reason.


Must be that time of the month for the Ol’ RollerCodester.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> What is right before Cody beats Kenny in 90 seconds for the title, Cody looks right into the camera and says "Tell 'em THIS bdon."


I’d legit quit watching wrestling. I’m not dealing with a talentless hack version of Hogan refusing to do the job for Sting again. Fuck that. I’d seriously be done. Lol


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Someone make the petition. I want the bdon shoutout and Tony will do it if it gathers support


----------



## Cult03

DammitChrist said:


> Ok, you don’t want this entire board/thread to be about you guys?
> 
> How about some of you folks quit luring away posters with your excessive negativity, quit reporting the passionate fans who enjoy the product, and quit making the topics about yourselves then (including talking/bragging about being a failed promoter)?
> 
> You’ll get more of a discussion that you seem to be begging for.


Oh you think we report people who like AEW and not people who insult us for not liking some of it? People don't get banned for being passionate. Those things you listed rarely happen, rebooking an episode of AEW isn't bragging about being a promoter at all. That's just you guys being insulting, which you do to make our opinions look bad instead of actually arguing them. Let's move on, back to the ratings please.


----------



## .christopher.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Bdon, this is your Daniel Bryan moment, you're over with both the loyalists and haters creating some common ground in this fierce war. All you need is your Triple H moment


Sigh. That was probably the last time I enjoyed wrestling. Hearing that Bryan was actually getting a push and was going to challenge Cena at Summerslam is what brought me back to wrestling after years of not watching, and the whole build-up from Summerslam to WrestleMania 30 was the reason i joined this forum.

That story caught the wrestling world on fire because you could actually BELIEVE Bryan was being held down. That was one of the last things in wrestling to gain traction worldwide and even outside of the wrestling bubble, and it did so with having zero phonyness to it.

The last 4 wrestlers that caused a stir in wrestling all did so because you bought their characters/stories. CM Punk, Brock Lesnar, Daniel Bryan, Ronda Rousey. Taking wrestling seriously still sells more than taking the mickey out of it despite everyone knowing it's a work.

I hope AEW realises that eventually.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> I’d legit quit watching wrestling. I’m not dealing with a talentless hack version of Hogan refusing to do the job for Sting again. Fuck that. I’d seriously be done. Lol


I still get hot over Starrcade 97.


----------



## Cult03

Bdon VS Cody Rhodes for the TNT Title
The Angry Aussies, Cult and Chip VS OC and Marko Stunt
Wood VS Kenny Omega
Two Sheds VS Michael Nakazawa
El Hammerstone VS John Silver

Book it, Tony


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## One Shed

Cult03 said:


> Bdon VS Cody Rhodes for the TNT Title
> The Angry Aussies, Cult and Chip VS OC and Marko Stunt
> Wood VS Kenny Omega
> Two Sheds VS Michael Nakazawa
> El Hammerstone VS John Silver
> 
> Book it, Tony


I hate you.


----------



## The Wood

.christopher. said:


> Sigh. That was probably the last time I enjoyed wrestling. Hearing that Bryan was actually getting a push and was going to challenge Cena at Summerslam is what brought me back to wrestling after years of not watching, and the whole build-up from Summerslam to WrestleMania 30 was the reason i joined this forum.
> 
> That story caught the wrestling world on fire because you could actually BELIEVE Bryan was being held down. That was one of the last things in wrestling to gain traction worldwide and even outside of the wrestling bubble, and it did so with having zero phonyness to it.
> 
> *The last 4 wrestlers that caused a stir in wrestling all did so because you bought their characters/stories. CM Punk, Brock Lesnar, Daniel Bryan, Ronda Rousey. Taking wrestling seriously still sells more than taking the mickey out of it despite everyone knowing it's a work.
> 
> I hope AEW realises that eventually.*


Thank you!


----------



## Cult03

Two Sheds said:


> I hate you.


You'll be going over him though. I think you could drag him to a good match. But you have to go 25 minutes with him. Could be worse, Chip has to sell roll ups from Marko Stunt and I have to do the OC leg kick spot. And he fucking pins me!


----------



## Klitschko

Cult03 said:


> Bdon VS Cody Rhodes for the TNT Title
> The Angry Aussies, Cult and Chip VS OC and Marko Stunt
> Wood VS Kenny Omega
> Two Sheds VS Michael Nakazawa
> El Hammerstone VS John Silver
> 
> Book it, Tony


Look at that, even a made up card Cody has to main event with his ACE championship.


----------



## The Wood

I’m going to carry Omega to a match so good he’s going to be able to coast off the reputation of that for another three years.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

In the semi main where I belong. We'd probably dwarf our opposing team


----------



## Klitschko

Can I get in on that card with a match against that greek god Brian Cage? I will even take the pre show.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> Can I get in on that card with a match against that greek god Brian Cage? I will even take the pre show.


Klitch, Fabi and Brad Boyd in tag team action against Team Taz!


----------



## Cult03

Klitschko said:


> Can I get in on that card with a match against that greek god Brian Cage? I will even take the pre show.


It's already a 3 and a half hour show but why not? Do you mind opening in a hardcore bout with Joey Janela though? He's ranked 57 on the AEW rankings but the winner of your match gets a shot at Moxley and his mid card title on Dynamite next week


----------



## One Shed

Cult03 said:


> It's already a 3 and a half hour show but why not? Do you mind opening in a hardcore bout with Joey Janela though? He's ranked 57 on the AEW rankings but the winner of your match gets a shot at Moxley and his mid card title on Dynamite next week


57? That high? He does hold the Mud Show title after all though.


----------



## Cult03

Two Sheds said:


> 57? That high? He does hold the Mud Show title after all though.


No that's Moxley, silly.


----------



## Klitschko

Chip Chipperson said:


> Klitch, Fabi and Brad Boyd in tag team action against Team Taz!


----------



## DammitChrist

Kentucky34 said:


> There is nothing wrong with criticising AEW.


Fuck off, you Seth Rollins troll.



> WWE is heavily criticised in other parts of the forum. Do you whine about that?


WWE has over a DECADE of them pissing off so many viewers, and its owner is also guilty of antagonizing wrestling fans too. Most of the complaints made by fans about WWE is justified. WWE and AEW aren't even CLOSE to being comparable with their respective track records.

I'm not surprised that some of the bitter sheep are blindly siding with you on that silly comparison of yours.


----------



## Klitschko

Cult03 said:


> It's already a 3 and a half hour show but why not? Do you mind opening in a hardcore bout with Joey Janela though? He's ranked 57 on the AEW rankings but the winner of your match gets a shot at Moxley and his mid card title on Dynamite next week


Sorry for the double post, but I just saw this post and holy shit, I haven't laughed that hard in a while. So accurate.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I see Dammitchrist could not respond as to how I'm a failed promoter of the wrasslin

@DammitChrist pls respawn


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Fuck off, you Seth Rollins troll.
> 
> 
> 
> WWE has over a DECADE of them pissing off so many viewers, and its owner is also guilty of antagonizing wrestling fans too. Most of the complaints made by fans about WWE is justified. WWE and AEW aren't even CLOSE to being comparable with their respective track records.
> 
> I'm not surprised that some of the bitter sheep are blindly siding with you on that silly comparison of yours.


You completely missed the point. It’s fine to rag on WWE, but AEW can’t cop it? Why can’t BOTH be guilty of letting fans down.

I was salty with WWE too, but AEW has made me appreciate them a lot more. Not enough to watch, but I’ve been keeping an eye on SmackDown. But yeah, they did a lot to upset a lot of fans. A lot of fans are also morons, sadly. They think they know a lot more than they do.

There are people who actually look at Roman Reigns and Charlotte Flair and think they’ve got no talent. They would push them right down the card and maybe even fire them. And they feel empowered to have that decision. Ask them who they would push and they’ll say Ricochet and Sasha Banks or something — and that’s not a knock on those talents — but they don’t know how to identify stars and see the whole package.

Hell, look at AEW. Vince McMahon — the “senile” old fuck has been proven right about so many workers left to their own devices. Even if you want to defend AEW, are you going to sit there and tell me that Brodie Lee and Miro are performing as well as Luke Harper in The Wyatt Family and Rusev circa WrestleMania 31? Or even the Rusev Day stuff. Matt Hardy is still Jeff’s brother. Chris Jericho is embarrassing himself.

You can’t do everything the fans want. They are not a collective and they are not always educated. They are fanatics and sometimes that applies to certain wrestlers who cannot work in certain spots.

Zack Ryder fucking sucked. He couldn’t talk, couldn’t work, wasn’t a particularly good wrestler. He looked alright and got the fans with his internet show. But you can only push that guy so far.

The trick is to engage fans to the point that they want what they get. WWE has had trouble with that. But eventually conditioning wins out. John Cena and Roman Reigns are huge stars. I think it could have been done better, but it’s been done.

Dutch Mantel scoffs at this idea, but there’s this idea that you don’t give people what they want, you give them what they need. Or something like that, haha. There’s an intuitive balance a creator needs to strike where the expectation pays off anticipation, and the unexpected creates it. If the fan knows what they are going to see, exactly how they’re going to see it, why would they pay to see it? To have worth, a creative endeavour must create something in people, which they couldn’t have been predicting. But they want their emotions validated too.

But anyway, there are valid criticisms of WWE, but invalid ones too. And I’m kind of sick of people who would thumb their nose at WWE but pretend AEW’s shit don’t stink.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> Fuck off, you Seth Rollins troll.
> 
> 
> 
> WWE has over a DECADE of them pissing off so many viewers, and its owner is also guilty of antagonizing wrestling fans too. Most of the complaints made by fans about WWE is justified. WWE and AEW aren't even CLOSE to being comparable with their respective track records.
> 
> I'm not surprised that some of the bitter sheep are blindly siding with you on that silly comparison of yours.


More personal attacks. It is easy to act tough behind a keyboard. 

It makes no difference if AEW has been in business for a year or a decade. It has fallen well below expectations. You cannot blame and abuse others for pointing that out. 

This week's number proves that the company is struggling to maintain its audience.


----------



## The Wood

I don’t think I’ve been more curious for a rating than next week’s. They “deserve” a shit one. Like real bad. One that even Meltzer has to admit is not good, and the obvious blame will have to be put on what AEW is actually putting out.

I’m worried though. There are so many idiots in the world. There are also people who might watch out of morbid curiosity, or joke-watch and I can see AEW stumbling even further in the wrong direction (like the people who argue that Orange Cassidy getting 1 million viewers — who then tune out apparently because they don’t actually want to watch this crap). I hope not, but I can see a lot of “I told you so!” when they bounce back to 850k or whatever.

WCW was doing great in 1998 while it was making some pretty big mistakes. When the final straw went on the camel’s back, the damage was done. Learn from history or be doomed to repeat it.

This company acts like history is toxic.


----------



## Platt

ENOUGH. Bunch of fucking children, grow the fuck up. You want to act like little bitches towards each other take it to rants.

There is a new thread up, keep that one on topic or you get kicked from the thread, simple as that.


----------

