# CM Punk/Triple H - Including 12/9 Talk (No, We Don't Need A Billion Threads)



## Theproof (Apr 9, 2009)

Are they serious? Great job WWE. You turned one of the hottest guys to come around in years into an annoying, whiny, little brat. All he does now is whine. How the hell is this guy supposed to come across as a main event guy if he's whining about the company's preference for bodybuilders and shit like this instead of small guys like him. They really need to tweak Punks character up because this whiny shit is only gonna get him so far.


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## MaryseFan (Aug 14, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE had turned Punk into a whiny bitch*

i know i was just thinking the same thing

holy shit it just got good


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## massajimmy (Sep 5, 2011)

*Triple H owned Punk*

Now all Punks band waggoners can hop of his meat pole. Triple H killed every argument he even had and cause fans to boo punk. Triple H owned him in every way. The boring shoot promos are old and played out now. Punk has been exposed. He is overrated.


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## RyanPelley (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE had turned Punk into a whiny bitch*

The mic blast and "suck it" made the segment awesome.


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## Geeve (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: It's official. The WWE had turned Punk into a whiny bitch*

Finally made up for it and did something physical, HHH was right it was going in circles, they still can't decide who's face or heel and it's a circle jerk.


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## Big Wiggle (Dec 27, 2010)

*Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

Hats off to the WWE and these two wrestlers. This fued is f'n epic and if done right could genuinely be the start of a new era. What a fantastic promo tonight and build up in general. 

If they could generate this kind of interest in the mid card too so many fans would flock back. They have something gold here and I just hope they don't screw it up (like they did the Nexus).

Looking forward to this match more than any other I can remember in recent times. WWE has been such a massive disappointment over the past few years...I hope this is the change they so desperately need.

Thoughts?


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## Dirty Dan (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE had turned Punk into a whiny bitch*

i like that hes bringing shit up and has nutz


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## Louie85TX (Feb 16, 2008)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

I still enjoy Punk&his shoot promos,But I agree Trips have been awesome and I even feel he has done his best promos in years since having this storyline with Punk!!!


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## Annihilus (Jun 30, 2010)

*Re: It's official. The WWE had turned Punk into a whiny bitch*

Thats how its been since after MITB.. ever since HHH got involved in the storyline Punk really hasn't any more must-see moments, his speeches have gotten more watered down and repetitive week by week and he's already exhausted all his "inside references" and insults to people behind the scenes.

Its almost like HHH is trying to bury him and derail his momentum by not turning heel, since the fans don't know who to cheer for. Because of that, + the fact that a % of the audience cheers HHH just because he's HHH, its made it so Punk hasn't even gotten 1/3 of the reaction he was getting around MITB. Even when its a reality storyline you need a good guy and a bad guy. The only way this can be salvaged is if HHH turns heel at NoC or the night after.


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE had turned Punk into a whiny bitch*

Cripple H owned Punk something viscous. lol. The only thing Phillip could come up with was things from the past that nobody cared about. Anybody denying this is a got damn liar.


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## p862011 (Jan 6, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

not exposed he just had terrible points that hhh countered

how has punk been held down

4 time wwe champ
2 time mitb
ic champ
tag champ
ecw champ

punk has been held back as a main eventer not as a superstar


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## massajimmy (Sep 5, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE had turned Punk into a whiny bitch*

Why was there never an excuse for the Rock when an angle didnt go right? You know why? Because he was a real damn star, thats why but every time punk fails and shows his true colors someone wants cry. People have been telling punk dick riders for the longest that he needs shoot promos to be a top star. He isnt good.Point,blank,period.Those long boring promo segments dont help him either. He only became a big deal because of a shoot and now everyone realizes he just flatout sucks and should go back to being a jobber.


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

*Re: It's official. The WWE had turned Punk into a whiny bitch*

Yea he was whining.. but havent fans on the internet been whining about those exact same things since last 6 years? His character is the voice of the voiceless, fans like the wf and other medium who are not heard as WWE kept making shit product for the casuals. I like the storyline.


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## Theproof (Apr 9, 2009)

*Re: It's official. The WWE had turned Punk into a whiny bitch*



zkorejo said:


> Yea he was whining.. but havent fans on the internet been whining about those exact same things since last 6 years? His character is the voice of the voiceless, fans like the wf and other medium who are not heard as WWE kept making shit product for the casuals. I like the storyline.


I want to watch a main event caliber wrestler not a glorified IWC member.


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## SarcasmoBlaster (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: It's official. The WWE had turned Punk into a whiny bitch*

Yeah, I wish he would stop with the "change" thing. He should punk Triple H and bag on his wife not because he's CM Punk and he's pissed about not getting pushed, but because he's CM Punk and he just doesn't give a fuck. The latter is infinitely more fun to root for.


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## Big Wiggle (Dec 27, 2010)

*Re: It's official. The WWE had turned Punk into a whiny bitch*

Punk and HHH were epic tonight.

Punk is a f'n star and the ray of hope that many fans have been so desperately looking for. Pretty sure they'll fuck it all up though. Hope to be proven wrong.


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## dissident (Sep 25, 2006)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

yeah I'm beginning to wonder where he's going with this storyline... what does he have against HHH anyways? What does he really want? What the WWE needs is better storylines by the midcard, more characters with charisma true, whether they are big or not. That's the problem. There have been main eventers that are not big and muscular, they had charisma, that's what's lacking. Compare and constrast the storylines and characters to attitude era. Also his claims of being the best in the world.. meh, he's not getting me over as a character in this story because he's too whiny. 

But hey, this storyline is fairly unpredictable.  His hatred of HHH seems a bit forced though. What's the point? Why not be a positive voice for change? The way to make change is not by whining and complaining, but by example.


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## massajimmy (Sep 5, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



p862011 said:


> not exposed he just had terrible points that hhh countered
> 
> how has punk been held down
> 
> ...


Triple H owned that overrated bum so bad he had to start talking about ice cream bars. Lets not start making excuses for the overrated star that needed a promo shoot to become a big deal. The Rock could make any angle work that he was given, because he is a real superstar, but every time punk fails. His dick riders keep making excuses. People that say Punk is better than the Rock where are they now? Punk flatout sucks. Truth is Punk's shoot promo rant is worthless,boring,and over the top. And the fans let him know about it tonight.

All punk dick riders need to realize a real superstar doesnt have to do a damn worked promo shoot to stay at the top. Punk has been failing the last few weeks.


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## coleminer1 (Sep 22, 2010)

*Re: It's official. The WWE had turned Punk into a whiny bitch*



Premeditated said:


> Cripple H owned Punk something viscous. lol. The only thing Phillip could come up with was things from the past that nobody cared about. Anybody denying this is a got damn liar.


lol


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## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

It was great mic work on both ends. It's actually a good thing that someone can stand toe to toe and exchange words with Punk like Triple H did.

What actually matters is that Punk was over from start to finish. I've been banging on Punk saying his momentum was dying and that's clearly not the case. He just needed to rid himself from ratings killer Nash who was bringing every segment down.


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## ejc8710 (Aug 12, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

yes it has been one of the best fueds in a few years but im really getting tired of people saying ughhhhh this should have waited till wrestlemania but really when was the last time you had a fued go 8 months with out a match now i know people are gonna say john cena and rock but really the rock has been gone for what almost 4 months now and he keeps leaving if you ask me the match could have waited till SS but not wrestlemania so stop the bitching


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## JuviJuiceIsLoose (Mar 27, 2009)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

It's still real to you, huh Little Jimmy???


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## MrWalsh (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

I have never been more happy then to see HHH shit all over Punk like that.
Hes been exposed 
time to go back to the drawing board CM Punk


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## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

I totally disagree. Even Cena vs Punk was better, even Taker vs HHH was better. I have lost almost all interest in this feud. I'm not sure why. How does this feud compare to HBK vs Undertaker? Come on...


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## Mike` (Mar 26, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

I think Triple H said it best during the promo when he said "We're going in circles." Pretty much true, they've been saying the same things to each other for weeks now.

I don't really like how tonight it went from Punk crying about being screwed at SummerSlam to crying about the the business again. Punk is now in the hottest storyline why would he be crying about the business again? It made sense before MITB, not so much now.


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## JuviJuiceIsLoose (Mar 27, 2009)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



massajimmy said:


> Triple H owned that overrated bum so bad he had to start talking about ice cream bars. Lets not start making excuses for the overrated star that needed a promo shoot to become a big deal. The Rock could make any angle work that he was given, because he is a real superstar, but every time punk fails. His dick riders keep making excuses. People that say Punk is better than the Rock where are they now? Punk flatout sucks. Truth is Punk's shoot promo rant is worthles now and the fans let him know about it tonight.



If you think the Rock could make "any" angle work, you weren't watching him from the beginning.


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## Volantredx (May 27, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE had turned Punk into a whiny bitch*



Theproof said:


> I want to watch a main event caliber wrestler not a glorified IWC member.


You do relise that as time goes on more and more wrestlers are going to be former/current IWC members. I almost garrenty that one young Phil Brooks was a member of a great meany forums in the early days.


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## Big Wiggle (Dec 27, 2010)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*



starship.paint said:


> I totally disagree. Even Cena vs Punk was better, even Taker vs HHH was better. I have lost almost all interest in this feud. I'm not sure why. How does this feud compare to HBK vs Undertaker? Come on...


This is bringing something far more edgy and real. Classic fueds are dead and buried in terms of company progress, no matter how epic the matches. Time for new blood and change.

P.S. Please don't mention Cena in any fued that could be classified as 'good'. His only hope is the Rock...and that's just coz well...it's the Rock.


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## Theproof (Apr 9, 2009)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*



Mike` said:


> I think Triple H said it best during the promo when he said "We're going in circles." Pretty much true, they've been saying the same things to each other for weeks now.
> 
> I don't really like how tonight it went from Punk crying about being screwed at SummerSlam to crying about the the business again. Punk is now in the hottest storyline why would he be crying about the business again? It made sense before MITB, not so much now.


Exactly. It just makes him come off bad in my opinion.


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## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE had turned Punk into a whiny bitch*



Theproof said:


> I want to watch a main event caliber wrestler not a glorified IWC member.


So you need to find someone else, because Punk is not your guy.
He's one trick pony, pathetic "IWC smark" persona. HHH killed him tonight.


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## Leechmaster (Jan 25, 2009)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

I'm thoroughly convinced this forum is full of retards.


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## shutupchico (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

how did he own him? every chance punks got in the wwe the people have been with him, heel or face. hhh kept saying it's about being over, punks been over the whole time, so helmsleys words were meaningless.


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## Dirty Dan (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

some idiots here talk about how the crowd dosen't know what they are talking about, its catered towards the IWC and they bitching


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## Dice Darwin (Sep 7, 2010)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

Punk is really good, but Triple H is a better mic worker. He's capable of bringing an intensity Punk can't quite match. Cena is the same way. But we can thank Punk for motivating them both. If not for Punk stepping it up, we might still be getting Cena's poopy jokes and Triple H acting like he doesn't care.


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## Ziderm (Jun 2, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

Even Cena vs R Truth was better than this garbage for god's sake.


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

notice how when Tripple H brought up the fact that 7-11 should be calling Punk to get collectors cup or he's had plenty of opportunities, Punk couldn't reply to that. He had one of those embarrassing smiles after you know you just got shitted on. Exactly what was Punk's argument this promo?


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## Son Of Muta (May 24, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



massajimmy said:


> Triple H owned that overrated bum so bad he had to start talking about ice cream bars. Lets not start making excuses for the overrated star that needed a promo shoot to become a big deal. The Rock could make any angle work that he was given, because he is a real superstar, but every time punk fails. His dick riders keep making excuses. People that say Punk is better than the Rock where are they now? Punk flatout sucks. Truth is Punk's shoot promo rant is worthles now and the fans let him know about it tonight.


How did Punk get owned? He just had a damn good promo with Hunter which made wanna see this PPV. We must of been watching different Raws because the crowd was behind Punk during that promo since they chanted his name?


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## TheSupremeForce (Jul 15, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

Triple H kept playing the "win the crowd" card. That isn't owning anybody. Hell, Triple H got to where he is today by being the guy everyone booed for most of his career. It was an asinine an argument as Punk's whining about being held down. The segment was pretty weak until Triple H acknowledged that they were talking in circles. From then on, it got good.


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## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

He's going against Triple H. Did you think he was going to get the upper hand? Of course he was going to be the complaining heel. It also fits with his gimmick. He's the voice of the voiceless, thus bringing up their complaints. I thought it all worked.


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## Natsuke (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

This whole feud with HHH/Nash/etc is honestly really bad.

It makes no sense other than to us, because we know what they're talking about. And it's honestly blurring some lines that really shouldn't be blurred. This isn't groundbreaking. Punk was way more badass against Cena, that's a fact. The pure adrenaline rush of overtopping Cena was the thing it was all about. Now it's about corporate management and whatnot. It's gotten stupid.


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## yoseftigger (Mar 18, 2008)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

I prefered Punk vs Cena but w.e


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## Big Wiggle (Dec 27, 2010)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

Hahahahahaha, epic promo from both men. I think you'll find the CM Punk chants indicate he wasn't exactly owned. Still, glad this fued is generating so much talk and heat. Punk is f'n awesome. Hats off to the game too.

WWE sucks, this could be a sign of hope.


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## nba2k10 (Mar 26, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

How did HHH own Cm Punk? He was repeating a whole bunch of stuff that the fans did not care about example: John Cena. The crowd was behind Cm Punk the whole time.


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## massajimmy (Sep 5, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Premeditated said:


> notice how when Tripple H brought up the fact that 7-11 should be calling Punk to get collectors cup or he's had plenty of opportunities, Punk couldn't reply to that. He had one of those embarrassing smiles after you know you just got shitted on. Exactly what was Punk's argument this promo?


He couldnt do shit, but keep repeating himself because he sucks. He tried to ease out of it by mentioning ice cream bars. Get his ass out of the main event scene immediately. I am sick and tired of his long, worthless,boring promo segments. Make him a jobber again and send him to superstars.


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## Dirty Dan (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

oh noes triple h buried punk!! =O


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## Swag (Apr 3, 2010)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

stop complaining, not giving a fuck


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## Jericho Addict (Dec 18, 2005)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Leechmaster said:


> I'm thoroughly convinced this forum is full of retards.


Agreed. These two threads suggested Punk got owned clearly did not follow the promo at all. Every single point Triple H made was broken or just didn't make any sense. The second Triple H said Punk had only just got the fans on his side I immediately thought back to how over Punk was in ECW and that moment at Survivor Series which Punk actually brought up. Hell during his heel run he often had the fans still on his side.


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## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*



Big Wiggle said:


> This is bringing something far more edgy and real. Classic fueds are dead and buried in terms of company progress, no matter how epic the matches. Time for new blood and change.
> 
> P.S. Please don't mention Cena in any fued that could be classified as 'good'. His only hope is the Rock...and that's just coz well...it's the Rock.


Oh, so you're a "shoot Punk shoot one veryone" supporter. Well, "real life" stuff is awesome in small doses. Like at the most, once every five years. When you have too much of it, it ruins the effect altogether


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## ejc8710 (Aug 12, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

hahaha at the person that said hhh vs taker that match is really overrated go to you tube n watch there match at wrestlemania 17 and your gonna be like wow the match at 27 sucked


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



p862011 said:


> not exposed he just had terrible points that hhh countered
> 
> how has punk been held down
> 
> ...


Well, to be fair, I wont say he has been held back but he has not been pushed heavily either, until now. His first title win was cringe-worthy, his second one was good but was screwed out of the title by taker. Ecw, tag team, ic titles dont mean shit in wwe today and 2 time mitb winner because Hardy was unexpectedly out of the match in the last moments. The first mitb victory was legit but the title reign was awful, they did not even let him lose the title and he never got his rematch for the title. I wont call it his failures tbh, WWE failed with CM Punk too and everyone would be saying that today if he had left the E after the summer slam.

His point was, he hasnt been supported and pushed like WWE did with Cena, Batista, Lashley, Orton, Lesnar etc.


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## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

Punk shined tonight I don't know what you guys are talking about.

Triple H pushing back hard just raised the bar. The time for talk about change is over with, now at NOC WWE needs to make it happen.


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## Louie85TX (Feb 16, 2008)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

Is there a video of Punk&Trips's promo yet?,I wan't to see it again!


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## massajimmy (Sep 5, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



nba2k10 said:


> How did HHH own Cm Punk? He was repeating a whole bunch of stuff that the fans did not care about example: John Cena. The crowd was behind Cm Punk the whole time.


Crowd was behind Punk? Maybe im the only person that heard the boos when punk tried to get the crowd to pop for him


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## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*



ejc8710 said:


> hahaha at the person that said hhh vs taker that match is really overrated go to you tube n watch there match at wrestlemania 17 and your gonna be like wow the match at 27 sucked


I said the FEUD, not the match.


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## Leechmaster (Jan 25, 2009)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Jericho Addict said:


> Agreed. These two threads suggested Punk got owned clearly did not follow the promo at all. Every single point Triple H made was broken or just didn't make any sense. The second Triple H said Punk had only just got the fans on his side I immediately thought back to how over Punk was in ECW and that moment at Survivor Series which Punk actually brought up. Hell during his heel run he often had the fans still on his side.


The fact that people are even arguing over who "won" a promo is absolutely jejune.


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## Demandred (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



massajimmy said:


> Now all Punks band waggoners can hop of his meat pole. Triple H killed every argument he even had and cause fans to boo punk. Triple H owned him in every way. The boring shoot promos are old and played out now. Punk has been exposed. He is overrated.



A repetitive and in reality, irrelevant comment about getting over with the fans doesn't "own" anyone. Cena could have done his stupid cheesy comic shit and it would have been better than that. Triple H essentially said, 30 times, because Punk was a heel he didn't deserve anything. It was stupid, repetitive, boring, meaningless, and dragged down the feud. 

The promo as a whole sucked until the last 2 minutes.

Also, in case you didn't know. Its not real. The 2 guys are working together. Its not a competition.


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## Jericho Addict (Dec 18, 2005)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

Also, Punk called Triple H out on holding guys back. I found it hilarious the one guy Triple H admitted to not believing in and being proved wrong was John Cena. When Punk was referring to anyone but Cena..


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## guru of wrestling (Jan 15, 2010)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

Its official Punk is turning face so alot of the internet fans will turn on him cause its cool to not like the good guys.


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## Theproof (Apr 9, 2009)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

HHH > Punk on the mic

I'm still sticking to this. HHH has to be one of the most underrated mic workers. I think we're all just too used to hearing him that we don't realize how good he is. When he wants to he can be epic very easily and he's always consistent.


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## JuviJuiceIsLoose (Mar 27, 2009)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



massajimmy said:


> Crowd was behind Punk? Maybe im the only person that heard the boos when punk tried to get the crowd to pop for him


Your TV must've been on mute during the CM Punk chants.


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## DJ2334 (Jan 18, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

He's the voice of the voiceless (IWC). So basically you guys are annoyed with yourselves?...you people really don't know what you want..


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## ejc8710 (Aug 12, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*



starship.paint said:


> I said the FEUD, not the match.


The fued and build up to that match sucked also


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## CenationHLR (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

Punk was basically whining about nothing and HHH countered all his points. HHH clearly owned him on the mic.


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## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

as usual a Punk hater creating a thread about Punk. Its been a summer of these and looks lik ewe are in for this for all seasons


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## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*



ejc8710 said:


> The fued and build up to that match sucked also


Feud. Not fued.

Anyway, we agree to disagree then.


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## Big Wiggle (Dec 27, 2010)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*



starship.paint said:


> Oh, so you're a "shoot Punk shoot one veryone" supporter. Well, "real life" stuff is awesome in small doses. Like at the most, once every five years. When you have too much of it, it ruins the effect altogether


Anything which can breath change into this shit hole of a company is a fantastic thing. Punk is a rarity on and off screen. He's entertaining, talented and has a 3 dimensional character. I hope he gets more and more opportunities. F*ck the haters to be honest. You want more fans back, this is the way to go. Make the fueds have real f'n passion behind them, not baseball caps, bright colors and choir singing entrances.

HHH and Nash deserve a pat on the back too. Something different to watch...FINALLY!


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## SarcasmoBlaster (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*



Natsuke said:


> This whole feud with HHH/Nash/etc is honestly really bad.
> 
> It makes no sense other than to us, because we know what they're talking about. And it's honestly blurring some lines that really shouldn't be blurred. This isn't groundbreaking. Punk was way more badass against Cena, that's a fact. The pure adrenaline rush of overtopping Cena was the thing it was all about. Now it's about corporate management and whatnot. It's gotten stupid.


Pretty much. I'd say it doesn't even make sense to us anymore. Why does Punk hate HHH? It's not even really clear. Because HHH bad mouthed him years ago? This storyline has just turned into what seems like petty bickering. Don't get me wrong, both this guys can cut the hell out of a promo, and sell a match. I just wish there was more to this feud than Punk badmouthing HHH's wife because HHH doesn't put over new talent. It sounds so stupid when you write it out.

It would be so much simpler - and cooler imo - if Punk just hated Hunter and tried to get him fired because, hey, bosses are assholes and Punk hates authority.


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## coleminer1 (Sep 22, 2010)

*The IWC is the voiceless*

and you still talk shit about punk? even though he cut a good promo today and actually defends the IWC?

seriously? for once WWE is actually listening to IWC and you argue over who cut the better promo.

LOL

edit: not to mention you guys were hating on bodybuilders becoming wrestlers for years. 

so embarassing


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## whetherby (Sep 13, 2011)

*CM Punk HAS made it big, but why blow it, why not speak?*

HHH called out on Punk on one of his main arguments (and some others, not discussed here):

You worked your butt off and you've FINALLY made it big...the crowd loves you. You are a main eventer now. THEN, he lets Punk say what he wanted to say from Phil to Paul...but what does CM punk do instead...didn't cm punk say once that he prefers talking than fighting (at the contract signing between cena and punk, he said something similar)..but instead of getting the chance of talking..he hits HHH? WHY WHY WHY? Because he had nothing left to say. And he lost my respect for doing that, and probably other people's respect to. I respected him before his last actions.

Just because you are being called out doesn't mean you should hit the accuser. Take it like a man, that you have nothing left to say, that you have to work another angle, try to win the crowd in some other way. That's how WE will love you for a long time, just like you want. Stay the same person...don't get whiny and throw cheap shots.


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## Rocky Mark (Mar 27, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

it was an epic promo , brilliant from both sides

but yeah , triple h got the better of punk in that promo

when punk brought the whole bodybuilders deal , triple h listed names and probed a point punk couldn't counter 

same thing happen when punk said he was held back , and then triple h countered that too and countered a lot of stuff punk said 

so yeah triple h got the edge bigtime in this promo 


but overall it was an awesome promo and i was entertained , that's what matters to me


----------



## Son Of Muta (May 24, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Theproof said:


> HHH > Punk on the mic
> 
> I'm still sticking to this. HHH has to be one of the most underrated mic workers. I think we're all just too used to hearing him that we don't realize how good he is. When he wants to he can be epic very easily and he's always consistent.


HHH = Punk

My god people, look at the promo again it took 2 guys in there Punk and Hunter both did great especially those last 2 minutes


----------



## Jericho Addict (Dec 18, 2005)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



CenationHLR said:


> Punk was basically whining about nothing and HHH countered all his points. HHH clearly owned him on the mic.


Your basically saying the opposite to me. You've stated your opinion here, but have not explained or backed up any of your points. Weak posting.


----------



## kazoo (Mar 3, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

Its entertaining for sure I smell a Austin vs McMahon
Redue but thats my opinion.


----------



## dissident (Sep 25, 2006)

*Re: CM Punk HAS made it big, but why blow it, why not speak?*

you know the hitting was scripted right? Stop acting like it's real. 

My question.. why they scripted him to do that... this must be leading to something worthwhile, I'll just give the storyline a chance and see how it plays out. In the meantime, punk is not really getting his point across to me as effectively as he could.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

HHH pretty much refuted Punk's whole bitching by listing the names of primetime guys who weren't body builders. You can tell Punk reads these forums.


----------



## Omega_VIK (Jul 3, 2008)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

fpalm This shit is getting ridiculous


----------



## Smoogle (Dec 20, 2008)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

you can see it coming 021392819381209123089312081239123809123089213098123 miles away, I know people are going to turn on him eventually ..he just talks to much he has a different style people aren't used too ..but it seems repetitive and eventually you just want to see a guy knock some teeth out


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

Nah, Nexus vs. Cena was better, Punk vs. Cena was better, Christian vs. Orton was better, and those three have all happened within the past year. I'd say Nexus vs. Cena has been the best feud in WWE in the past few years... since Jericho/Michaels at least (imo).

Still this is a good feud, best thing going on right now by far, but it's not living up to it's potential yet, which is bigger than all the other feuds I mentioned. The only question is will it by the end of this feud? I hope so.


----------



## DrunkHobbit (Sep 1, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

Punk comes across as an entitled little bitch in his promos. wah wah you've never liked me HHH; fans cheered for me once; the wwe loves body builders.

I thought HHH exposed a lot of the BS of those arguments...everyone in the WWE who has made it to the top has worked their ass off to get there...I doubt CM Punk works harder than the average wrestler. And there are a lot of guys who have made it without being a body builder (austin, HBK, bret hart). Wine some more punk.


----------



## Big Wiggle (Dec 27, 2010)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*



SarcasmoBlaster said:


> Pretty much. I'd say it doesn't even make sense to us anymore. Why does Punk hate HHH? It's not even really clear. Because HHH bad mouthed him years ago? This storyline has just turned into what seems like petty bickering. Don't get me wrong, both this guys can cut the hell out of a promo, and sell a match. I just wish there was more to this feud than Punk badmouthing HHH's wife because HHH doesn't put over new talent. It sounds so stupid when you write it out.
> 
> It would be so much simpler - and cooler imo - if Punk just hated Hunter and tried to get him fired because, hey, bosses are assholes and Punk hates authority.


Go watch Sponge Bob if you want basic story lines. Some of us like more complex and interesting things.


----------



## Dirty Dan (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: The IWC is the voiceless*

he was doing to much "insider talk" obviously iwc dosen't get it


----------



## Smoogle (Dec 20, 2008)

*Re: The IWC is the voiceless*

We all shit on ourselves every day so eventually punk is going to self implode and get booed


----------



## 2K JAY (Jan 2, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

He is the voice of the voiceless. He's speaking his mind, that's what got him over.


----------



## ejc8710 (Aug 12, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*



Big Wiggle said:


> Anything which can breath change into this shit hole of a company is a fantastic thing. Punk is a rarity on and off screen. He's entertaining, talented and has a 3 dimensional character. I hope he gets more and more opportunities. F*ck the haters to be honest. You want more fans back, this is the way to go. Make the fueds have real f'n passion behind them, not baseball caps, bright colors and choir singing entrances.
> 
> HHH and Nash deserve a pat on the back too. Something different to watch...FINALLY!



I Agree with you here but at this point the only reason im watching raw is cause of cm punk tonight's whole show sucked ass. So Trips its all about what we think and what we want right hahahahahahahahaha yea right unless your mother in law runs for office then you have to change your whole format to pg


----------



## wrestlingfan4ever (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

And with that, the jobs of Punk and Triple H are complete. Just look at these threads popping up, though sadly some of them by people that seem to still think this is all real. Punk is getting under these clueless dolts skin and Triple H is there to defend their honor. Now to put a neat little ribbon on everything, they have their match Sunday. 

Flawless victory!


----------



## Jericho Addict (Dec 18, 2005)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Premeditated said:


> HHH pretty much refuted Punk's whole bitching by listing the names of primetime guys who weren't body builders. You can tell Punk reads these forums.


I can't remember who was mentioned other than HBK and Rey. But HBK is a mute point as he was champion in an era completely irrelevant to the storyline. Punk's 'body builder' issue was referring to the mindset in the past decade. As for Mysterio, despite being a champion in the past few years he wasn't exactly booked as the 'top guy'.

Punk's point is the company wants the 'John Cena' image as the top guy, and will never fully be behind someone with Punk's image. Punk should of turned around and referred to the fact the company never fully believed in Mysterio as a permanent main event guy either.


----------



## M.P (Feb 22, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

This is not the best feud in years at all. This rivarly went downhill very fast. They did however tried to reboot itself tonight, but it wasnt enough. The whole Kevin Nash situation ruined it completely. Nash shouldnt have beeen even close to this feud. He should have stayed away.


----------



## Dirty Dan (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: The IWC is the voiceless*

we don't give a fuck wheter the promo good or bad we gonna shit on it, unless your name is Jericho or steve austin


----------



## Pojko (Jul 13, 2011)

*Re: The IWC is the voiceless*

There are no facts or logic in fanatical ranks of the IWC. Passion rules reason, for better or for worse. Those who adore Punk will say he owned HHH on the mic. The John Cena and Rock marks will claim the exact opposite.

Understanding is a three-edged sword.


----------



## Agmaster (Sep 13, 2010)

*Re: CM Punk HAS made it big, but why blow it, why not speak?*

if they let ithappen at someplace important, why not save it for then?


----------



## coleminer1 (Sep 22, 2010)

*Re: The IWC is the voiceless*

complaining about body builders? getting over?

sounds like IWC


----------



## Jericho Addict (Dec 18, 2005)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



DrunkHobbit said:


> Punk comes across as an entitled little bitch in his promos. wah wah you've never liked me HHH; fans cheered for me once; the wwe loves body builders.
> 
> I thought HHH exposed a lot of the BS of those arguments...everyone in the WWE who has made it to the top has worked their ass off to get there...I doubt CM Punk works harder than the average wrestler. And there are a lot of guys who have made it without being a body builder (austin, HBK, bret hart). Wine some more punk.


All those guys you've mentioned are from a different era. Not one CM Punk has worked in or is referring to in his promo. Punk is referring to the Chris Masters (pre his recent improvement) and Bobby Lashley pushes of this era. Masters a green as hell guy was going over the guys who should of been in the main event like Benoit and Jericho. Lashley could not talk, let alone work a match properly and guys like Burke, Punk and even RVD were getting the shaft.


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*



Big Wiggle said:


> Anything which can breath change into this shit hole of a company is a fantastic thing. Punk is a rarity on and off screen. He's entertaining, talented and has a 3 dimensional character. I hope he gets more and more opportunities. F*ck the haters to be honest. You want more fans back, this is the way to go. Make the fueds have real f'n passion behind them, not baseball caps, bright colors and choir singing entrances.
> 
> HHH and Nash deserve a pat on the back too. Something different to watch...FINALLY!


Whatever. You think that I'm a Cena mark? That's funny.

Good for you that you enjoy this feud. I'm not going to argue any more. You can sit back and enjoy the show.


----------



## ejc8710 (Aug 12, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

hahahah really nexus vs cena was better r u serious ?????


----------



## CMojicaAce (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

Wah Wah Wah look at me im cool. I'm gonna bitch and complain on forums instead of enjoying a promo.


----------



## Mike` (Mar 26, 2011)

*Re: The IWC is the voiceless*

There's a difference between people on a forum complaining about stuff and a wrestler breaking kayfabe and complaining about it in the ring. Don't think it makes for a very good promo because most of the audience doesn't realize what you are talking about.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

This section sucks now. Where's the Summer of Punk thread?


----------



## dynastynyy (Aug 31, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

im still keeping hope up that this will get better after NoC. If they do it right and form 2 warring stables out of this, it'll be worth it. If theyre really intent on breathing life back into the company, they need to bring back some of the elements which made the WWF great for so long. 

Long standing feuds built up over the course of MONTHS (not WEEKS) used to be great storylines to follow. Im not saying "BRING BACK THE ATTITUDE ERA" because that wont happen. But all they need to do is bring back the parts of that era that were proven successful. Rivalries dont exist anymore, and this angle could be a great chance to get the ball rolling on a back and forth rivalry between Punk and the Suits.


----------



## Big Wiggle (Dec 27, 2010)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*



M.P said:


> This is not the best feud in years at all. This rivarly went downhill very fast. They did however tried to reboot itself tonight, but it wasnt enough. The whole Kevin Nash situation ruined it completely. Nash shouldnt have beeen even close to this feud. He should have stayed away.


Bigger picture. Give it a chance.

(So I hope)


----------



## BlakeGriffinFan32 (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

The IWC in 2000 felt negatively towards Stone Cold and the Rock. That's all I need to know how I feel about those on here and what they say about Punk.


----------



## CMojicaAce (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Wrestlinfan35 said:


> This section sucks now. Where's the Summer of Punk thread?


This


----------



## DJ2334 (Jan 18, 2011)

*Re: The IWC is the voiceless*

Just stated this in a separate thread. It's sad that most of the guys hating on Punk can't see that he's voicing the majority of the IWC's opinion. Well then again that's the IWC for you. The only thing interesting about this raw was the last promo too and I probably would stop watching if Punk left.


----------



## Cole Phelps (Jun 12, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



massajimmy said:


> Now all Punks band waggoners can hop of his meat pole. Triple H killed every argument he even had and cause fans to boo punk. Triple H owned him in every way. The boring shoot promos are old and played out now. Punk has been exposed. He is overrated.


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao this post is all kinds of awesome it's so true


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*


----------



## JDman (Jun 7, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

DAMN RIGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DAMN RIGHT

TRIPLE H! TRIPLE H! TRIPLE H!


----------



## coleminer1 (Sep 22, 2010)

*Re: The IWC is the voiceless*



Pojko said:


> There are no facts or logic in fanatical ranks of the IWC. Passion rules reason, for better or for worse. Those who adore Punk will say he owned HHH on the mic. The John Cena and Rock marks will claim the exact opposite.
> 
> Understanding is a three-edged sword.


i understand this completely.

I just find it funny that IWC was complaining about is the same stuff cm punk talked about in his promo and he still cant catch a break from his haters.


----------



## wrestlingfan4ever (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*



starship.paint said:


> I totally disagree. Even Cena vs Punk was better, even Taker vs HHH was better. I have lost almost all interest in this feud. I'm not sure why. How does this feud compare to HBK vs Undertaker? Come on...



Taker/Triple H buildup was fucking lifeless. Each would come out on Raw/SD, cut a promo, rinse and repeat. Throw in a few crotch chops and a whole lot of staring at each other. Wowzers!!!!!!1 GREATEST EVAR!!!!


----------



## Gresty (Oct 15, 2010)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

JDMan incoming


----------



## 2K JAY (Jan 2, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

Punk still has valid points, guys like Colt Cabana and DH Smith amongst others didn't get a shot to get the crowd behind them. WWE has always had the bodybuilder/bikini model mindset. Sure Triple H drops off names like HBK and Rey Mysterio but those are exceptions. Bodybuilders will always be pushed over the Kaval's and Evan Bourne's of the world. Despite not being able to captivate the crowd in the ring.

Punk is a 4 time world champion, sure but despite being quite possibly the most over guy in the company, he's never been "THAT guy". Not yet anyway. When he was World Champion on Raw in 2008, John Cena was main eventing.


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



JDman said:


> DAMN RIGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DAMN RIGHT
> 
> TRIPLE H! TRIPLE H! TRIPLE H!


----------



## PunkDrunk (Jul 23, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

Hilarious

all i read is how Punk would outshine Rock in a mythical promo segment. PIPEBOMB!!!
HHH puts him in his place and now theyre working together.. no one gets owned LOL!1!1
Punk plays to the IWC gallery, hed have wanted to out manoeuvre HHH.
HHH made sure he didnt.


----------



## aeriolewinters (Mar 14, 2010)

*Re: The IWC is the voiceless*

I can't believe that the Reality spin on things are actually affecting alot of people here. Some people are actually buying that Phil and Paul hate each other or something. It makes for good entertainment seeing random members beat up on each other. 


Bottom line is, I'm entertained, the haters are still trying to wipe off Punk's taste from their tongues, because they can't shut up about him. If they really want to negatively affect punk, they should be indifferent about punk.


----------



## Natsuke (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

Cena/Punk meant so, so, so much more.

THAT, in my opinion, was the best feud of this year. You can't top the embodiments of mainstream and IWC going head to head.


----------



## coleminer1 (Sep 22, 2010)

*Re: The IWC is the voiceless*



Mike` said:


> There's a difference between people on a forum complaining about stuff and a wrestler breaking kayfabe and complaining about it in the ring. Don't think it makes for a very good promo because most of the audience doesn't realize what you are talking about.


did u ever think that maybe WWE is doing this for IWC? maybe giving us a storyline we can enjoy for once and not a storyline that involves a good guy overcoming the odds? but nope you guys still bitch about it.

so sad


----------



## JDman (Jun 7, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

Punk has no valid points when arguing with Triple H. HHH shot them all down. 

HE IS THE FUCKING GAME, YOU WILL _FEAR _HIM...HE.IS.YOUR.GOD.


----------



## SarcasmoBlaster (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*



Big Wiggle said:


> Go watch Sponge Bob if you want basic story lines. Some of us like more complex and interesting things.


I'm just saying that there might be a better way to sell Punk's "voice of the voiceless" character to everyone - not just us - than having him complain about backstage politics. If that's too "basic" then so be it I guess. Maybe I will take in some Sponge bob though...


----------



## Smoogle (Dec 20, 2008)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Kentonbomb said:


> Punk still has valid points, guys like Colt Cabana and DH Smith amongst others didn't get a shot to get the crowd behind them. WWE has always had the bodybuilder/bikini model mindset. Sure Triple H drops off names like HBK and Rey Mysterio but those are exceptions. Bodybuilders will always be pushed over the Kaval's and Evan Bourne's of the world. Despite not being able to captivate the crowd in the ring.
> 
> Punk is a 4 time world champion, sure but despite being quite possibly the most over guy in the company, he's never been "THAT guy". Not yet anyway. When he was World Champion on Raw in 2008, John Cena was main eventing.


DH SMITH was hot garbage


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

*Re: The IWC is the voiceless*



Mike` said:


> There's a difference between people on a forum complaining about stuff and a wrestler breaking kayfabe and complaining about it in the ring. Don't think it makes for a very good promo because most of the audience doesn't realize what you are talking about.


Most of the audience seemed fine with that, or until now people would have been booing Punk and Triple H promos or worse, What? and Boring! chants would have been following after every sentence completed in that promo.


----------



## Dirty Dan (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: The IWC is the voiceless*

IWC December 2011:Im fuckin sick of triple h as coo its really boring


----------



## alliance (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Premeditated said:


> HHH pretty much refuted Punk's whole bitching by listing the names of primetime guys who weren't body builders. You can tell Punk reads these forums.


honestly even when i try i cant stop laughing at that Sig no matter how often i look at it..

i thought punk was doin well said a few things to get the crowd behind him but the bitch way, the way cena does it, the ice cream bars and a few other stuff was so damn cheesey, he didnt need to go there cause there was chants

then HHH took over..

even during the time when punk was getting chants Helmsley countered the hell out of punk like Jmm vs pac in both encounters, it was one after another with hhh and i was very impressed, then he just WENT OFF and took the promo to his side, i thought it was great and i hope to god HHH takes this,

im still a punk fan but man after that epic promo hes been doing nothing but bitching and whining and hasbeen this, hasbeen that, its too much..


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*


----------



## Gresty (Oct 15, 2010)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



JDman said:


> Punk has no valid points when arguing with Triple H. HHH shot them all down.
> 
> HE IS THE FUCKING GAME, YOU WILL _FEAR _HIM...HE.IS.YOUR.GOD.




:lmao


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

anybody here ever realize that Punk always response to the last line HHH or Cena says? He never tries to refute their arguments. He just focuses on that particular line so he can buy time to think about something else.


----------



## CenationHLR (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Jericho Addict said:


> Your basically saying the opposite to me. You've stated your opinion here, but have not explained or backed up any of your points. Weak posting.


I thought the points were all obvious but seeing as your just another CM punk dick rider, I guess not.

Punk says only the big guys get the spotlight and yet people like HBK, Bret Hart, Rey Mysterio, Miz, Del Rio have been champion. Punk also bitches about never having an opportunity despite getting the spotlight multiple times and not getting over with the fans.


----------



## dissident (Sep 25, 2006)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Premeditated said:


> HHH pretty much refuted Punk's whole bitching by listing the names of primetime guys who weren't body builders. You can tell Punk reads these forums.


it's about charisma and better creative, giving superstars more time on the mic, not so much what they look like. They could have big meaty guys be the champs for all I care if they have good character. Punk seems more concerned about title shots and the technical aspect of wrestling. Not all IWCers care about that. I'm more concerned about more superstars with better charisma, better storylines, more unpredictability, things that bring out emotions in people.

HHH is right, you do have to win the crowd, but you don't win it simply by pairing up 2 random wrestlers for no reason, and not giving them any freedom on the mic, with no storyline behind it. Stating the obvious I know.


----------



## aeriolewinters (Mar 14, 2010)

*Re: The IWC is the voiceless*

Well, remember that promo wherein Cena referenced Punk's fans? Yup the 'voiceless' is the Internet Fan.


----------



## CMojicaAce (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: The IWC is the voiceless*



Dirty Dan said:


> IWC December 2011:Im fuckin sick of triple h as coo its really boring


IWC May 2012: Fuck Daniel Bryan as World champion he's boring as hell.


----------



## wrestlingfan4ever (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*



SarcasmoBlaster said:


> Pretty much. I'd say it doesn't even make sense to us anymore. Why does Punk hate HHH? It's not even really clear. Because HHH bad mouthed him years ago? This storyline has just turned into what seems like petty bickering. Don't get me wrong, both this guys can cut the hell out of a promo, and sell a match. I just wish there was more to this feud than Punk badmouthing HHH's wife because HHH doesn't put over new talent. It sounds so stupid when you write it out.
> 
> *It would be so much simpler - and cooler imo - if Punk just hated Hunter and tried to get him fired because, hey, bosses are assholes and Punk hates authority.*


Cue the bitching that he's just repeating what Austin said years ago.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

Too early to tell. I think they'll continue this for months after NOC where Triple H turns heel. Then it may just be.


----------



## PunkDrunk (Jul 23, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

They shouldnt have had Punk lose it at the end.

Hes the troll, it made him look as if he had no counter argument and landed a cheap shot.
HHH handed him 2 mics... Its like the character Punk ran out of material


----------



## CenationHLR (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

Well what did you expect? He is supposed to be the voice of the IWC and all they do is complain so it fits his character.


----------



## Geeve (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: The IWC is the voiceless*

Even kayfabe how people disagree with Punk, RAW has been shit since Punk got moved out of the title picture, nothing has changed the supershows suck, Orton and Cena get pushed down throats no matter what the "universe" says.


----------



## whetherby (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk HAS made it big, but why blow it, why not speak?*

Yes the show is scripted...people who think it is scripted don't come to these forums. Anyway:

So the script part of the show isn't specific. It's "go out, make the crowd go wild" pretty much...

So how much of tonight was scripted? Was the mike shut off scripted? Cause I could hear HHH say, SAY WHAT YOU WANT WITHOUT THE MIKE, I DON'T CARE IF THEY HEAR IT. 

I think CM Punk decided he actually had nothing to say from PHIL to PAUL....

Point being...Hitting probably wasn;'t scripted, because they probably wanted one person to win the argument, and walk away and leave the fighting for later, but who knows.....

My point it...DID PUNK HAVE MORE PERSONAL THINGS TO SAY? (I think this should be a new thread).


----------



## Smoogle (Dec 20, 2008)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

I think if he picked the MIC up after the third time they'd boo him, it makes him seem like a bitch whining all the time, he has some valid points but at the same time it was smart he crack Triple HHH's head with the mic


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

I prefer CM Punks rants over any John Cena "Hustle Loyalty, respect" speech.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*



Natsuke said:


> Cena/Punk meant so, so, so much more.
> 
> THAT, in my opinion, was the best feud of this year. You can't top the embodiments of mainstream and IWC going head to head.


This.

HHH/Punk for the most part is nonsensical mess.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*



PunkDrunk said:


> They shouldnt have had Punk lose it at the end.
> 
> Hes the troll, it made him look as if he had no counter argument and landed a cheap shot.
> HHH handed him 2 mics... Its like the character Punk ran out of material


You got the ending all wrong. Punk had the mic shut off on him twice, knowing it was going to happen a 3rd time he shoved it Triple H's face.


----------



## Son Of Muta (May 24, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



CenationHLR said:


> I thought the points were all obvious but seeing as your just another CM punk dick rider, I guess not.
> 
> Punk says only the big guys get the spotlight and yet people like HBK, Bret Hart, Rey Mysterio, Miz, Del Rio have been champion. Punk also bitches about never having an opportunity despite getting the spotlight multiple times and not getting over with the fans.


He has been over with the fans for years.


----------



## Rocky Mark (Mar 27, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



PunkDrunk said:


> Hilarious
> 
> all i read is how Punk would outshine Rock in a mythical promo segment. PIPEBOMB!!!
> HHH puts him in his place and now theyre working together.. no one gets owned LOL!1!1
> ...


i agree

punk is a brilliant mic worker , but he got told tonight ..

triple h threw valid points at him that punk coudn't respond too and turned it into a goofy segment for a moment , especially with the whole ice cream deal


----------



## shotsx (Feb 17, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

Its still real to CM Punk DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## PunkDrunk (Jul 23, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

but HHH tried to let him speak.. HHH was telling him to say it to his face, he can hear it.
Punk is a troll, he should be the one that makes his opponent crack up imo


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

I agree with the op. I think this is just a glimpse of what the "reality era" will be like.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Rocky Mark said:


> i agree
> 
> punk is a brilliant mic worker , but he got told tonight ..
> 
> triple h threw valid points at him that punk coudn't respond too and turned it into a goofy segment for a moment , especially with the whole ice cream deal


Punk was over the entire time though. You put the Rock and Punk in the ring together, and I wouldn't be surprised if Punk gets better reactions from the crowd.

Triple H pretty much exposed that he just loves to whine, but the crowd loves it too.


----------



## DrunkHobbit (Sep 1, 2011)

*Re: The IWC is the voiceless*

If the IWC is the voiceless and Punk is our voice, we are a bunch of whiny little bitchboys that should stfu


----------



## Agmaster (Sep 13, 2010)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

I swear WWE just likes to shoot itself in the foot out of hubris sometimes. Like they fear if it's too good, they won't be able to keep being creative.

Fans understand that. We don't always want groundbreaking end all be all stories, we just want progression. And not faux standing still spinning in circles progression either.


----------



## Cre5po (Mar 2, 2008)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

Punk just came across as a spoilt child trying to pick holes in anything and everything, sure guys get given opportunities but the way Punk was talking was as if (As Trips said) it was a wrestler talking to a businessman and quite frankly The Game is that and more, it showed tonight

I don't know what the plan was for the final segment but it didn't go down too well for Punk, it was almost a whiney child against a grown man. Of course bodybuilders are the cookie cut build for "champions" but I fail to see why it matters for Punk in this particular match, Triple H's points were all valid, it's personal, he wants a fight, Punk if he's all he's cracked up to be could have just twisted words into saying how this is his time and he'll win, not going into vague details about how the company works, didn't end well for him and I think he took the wrong approach. Least now maybe he'll move on from the anti-establishment type speeches


----------



## Goldberg=G.O.A.T (Sep 8, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

Pretty much.

I think for punk he cant hang with a good talker like trips.

he needs someone like CENA who is only good at corny humour lol


----------



## skolpo (Jan 25, 2008)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

The fact that you guys are creating "x owned y" threads shows how great their promos are turning out. It's all scripted (at least bullet-pointed). They all know the outcome of the promos yet all of you here act like one wrestler or the other was not expecting to be on the short-end of the promo(s). No one is owning anyone in particular. All promos are made to make a certain star look better than the other or make them look at even odds. This final promo pre-PPV gave HHH the edge (intentionally) but ends with Punk as the high mark. Typical promo if you ask me. Just really really really good delivery on both ends.


----------



## Rocky Mark (Mar 27, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



GillbergReturns said:


> Punk was over the entire time though. *You put the Rock and Punk in the ring together*, *and I wouldn't be surprised if Punk gets better reactions from the crowd.
> *
> Triple H pretty much exposed that he just loves to whine, but the crowd loves it too.


dude .. that statement is too forward

not saying punk is bad or anything , but no way in hell is he gonna get more reaction than the rock 

hell just look at SS tickets sold out in less than 30 minutes cause of the Rock !

let's get real here and leave the fantasy land some people here live in , punk is over but come on now ..


----------



## Goldberg=G.O.A.T (Sep 8, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk HAS made it big, but why blow it, why not speak?*

Because he has no more material to say. 

this whole reality era has backfired on him. It has exposed him.

He whined and complained about the main event but he is not proving it when he is given the chance.


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



skolpo said:


> The fact that you guys are creating "x owned y" threads shows how great their promos are turning out. It's all scripted (at least bullet-pointed). They all know the outcome of the promos yet all of you here act like one wrestler or the other was not expecting to be on the short-end of the promo(s). No one is owning anyone in particular. All promos are made to make a certain star look better than the other or make them look at even odds. This final promo pre-PPV gave HHH the edge (intentionally) but ends with Punk as the high mark. Typical promo if you ask me. Just really really really good delivery on both ends.


this.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

Umm... no... HHH came back with bullshit reasoning that anyone that pays attention knows was bullshit. It certainly didn't help HHH's cause when he brought up Cena and the arena booed yet again. It didn't help that HHH's biggest point was "we listen to the fans" to which you could tell Punk wanted to scream "did you watch the show tonight?!". Punk was handcuffed in that response simply because it would have broken kayfabe if he mentioned the booking in any way(for real this time unlike the punk haters claiming that bullshit every other post).


----------



## sp00kyfr0g (Sep 7, 2010)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

As much as it pains me to say it, I have to agree with the OP. This Punk is not the same Punk as the one who fought Cena at MiTB. Punk vs Cena made Punk look like a legitimate badass with a devil-may-care attitude about him. Ever since this feud with HHH started, Punk has looked much less badass every week and more like what others around here have been calling him, a glorified internet troll.

My fellow Punk marks, I wouldn't get your hopes up on the crowd staying this behind Punk, even by next week. Canada is a notorious smark stomping ground. Add that to the fact that it seems the canadians have never forgiven HBK or HHH for their parts in the whole Montreal screwjob.

Anyways, this Punk can fuck right off. Bring back the badass who didn't give 2 shits about what people thought of him. That's the Punk I was cheering for during MiTB.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Rocky Mark said:


> dude .. that statement is too forward
> 
> not saying punk is bad or anything , but no way in hell is he gonna get more reaction than the rock
> 
> ...


Lol.. i agree. Punk is awesome, But Rock is the peoples champ!


----------



## aeriolewinters (Mar 14, 2010)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

Yes. Motherfucking yes. The reason why this feud seems confusing is that this is a testbed for what a common reality era feud will be. A hint of reality, mixing with kayfabe creating another reality that the viewer would believe.


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*



aeriolewinters said:


> Yes. Motherfucking yes. The reason why this feud seems confusing is that this is a testbed for what a common reality era feud will be. A hint of reality, mixing with kayfabe creating another reality that the viewer would believe.


It's so tits, it really is. This feud has gotten me really excited for what the next couple years will be like.


----------



## Son Of Muta (May 24, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

I wanna see Punk and Rock face off in SS at least in a promo, that would be interesting


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

Orton v Christian says Hi.


----------



## RKO85 (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*



mst3rulz said:


> Orton v Christian says Hi.


^ This.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

It is good, but i hope Triple H turns heel to make it even better. Heel Triple H is the best Triple H plus this storyline badly needs a mega heel if they plan to continue this after NOC which seems likely.


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

Its the best thing going on in WWE right now and all the kayfabe breaking is new.


----------



## rcc (Dec 16, 2009)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Kentonbomb said:


> Punk still has valid points, guys like *Colt Cabana* and DH Smith amongst others didn't get a shot to get the crowd behind them.


Really? They even gave that loser an internet show to get over and it was one of the least funny things I've ever seen in WWE.


----------



## aeriolewinters (Mar 14, 2010)

*Re: CM Punk HAS made it big, but why blow it, why not speak?*



Goldberg=G.O.A.T said:


> Because he has no more material to say.
> 
> this whole reality era has backfired on him. It has exposed him.
> 
> He whined and complained about the main event but he is not proving it when he is given the chance.


No it has not, the very moment you make this post about him... is the very moment it has worked. You are already believing in what he says or preaches, because you give a damn about it. If he doesn't truly matter, you wouldn't go and whine about him.


----------



## Carv (Sep 12, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

I just finished watching on YouTube and I am giddy as all hell. This excites me on the same level of Punk/Cena, if not a bit more! If done right, this could be the 21st century Austin/Vince.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

hahaha look at these idiots triple h did nothing he was repeating him self look at the fans really cant you listen to the fans they are chanting his name but again he bring up the same point again.. punk is right its all about how big you are and hbk was big becoz he was in the business for too long in the 80s who else bret hart was known as an a technical wrestler but look at the end punk got a louder chants than bret hart and hes not that small bret is not like the others its not like he got what he deserved he got screwed..


----------



## Jericho Addict (Dec 18, 2005)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



CenationHLR said:


> I thought the points were all obvious but seeing as your just another CM punk dick rider, I guess not.
> 
> Punk says only the big guys get the spotlight and yet people like HBK, Bret Hart, Rey Mysterio, Miz, Del Rio have been champion. Punk also bitches about never having an opportunity despite getting the spotlight multiple times and not getting over with the fans.


Cool insult man, way to make yourself look like an intelligent poster right off the bat. Kind of fucks up the fact you actually made a well thought out point this time. 

As I've said already in this thread, Hart and HBK were from a different era. Not relevant to the era Punk is calling Triple H out on.

Mysterio wasn't treated like a champion.

Miz and Del Rio are good examples, but are very recent. 

The 'bodybuilder' stigma that Punk is talking about is explained in my earlier post and is not about champions. But generally about talent recruitment and pushes, guys that just aren't ready (and weren't) like Lashley, Master, Otunga, Ryan at the time of their pushes. 

Punk has been in the spotlight. Sure. But your wrong, he has been shafted and had the proverbial rug pulled out from under him. His point about Survivor Series is brilliant, he was more over than the Hardy's and DX and a few weeks later they jobbed him out to Hardcore Holly while Lashley was getting a push. Bobby Lashley who was green in the ring and couldn't talk. Punk was ready.

You can't call the booking Punk has been given over the past 5-6 years opportunity. While they started to give him the brass ring, for example his feud with Hardy where we were treated to one of the hottest feuds in WWE history. Punk was drawing money for the company. This ended in backstage politics leading to Punk losing to the Undertaker and ended up in a dark match at the next PPV with R-Truth.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Rocky Mark said:


> dude .. that statement is too forward
> 
> not saying punk is bad or anything , but no way in hell is he gonna get more reaction than the rock
> 
> ...


No denying that the Rock has his fans, but it's pretty clear Punk has his too. I can't speak to just how many additional fans will be there, but what I can tell you is you can guarantee that those Punk chants will be heard. We're not talking about 10 year old kids either.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

Man that post is all over the place Brave Nash lol


----------



## miles berg (Jun 12, 2010)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

CM Punk is like a pimped out Kia. He looks great when he is by himself or next to other Kia's but when you put him next to a Cadillac, he is exposed for being substandard.

HHH is a Cadillac, they don't get better than HHH. It isn't Punks fault, it is the WWEs fault for booking him against guys that are clearly on another level than Punk is capable of being on.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



miles berg said:


> CM Punk is like a pimped out Kia. He looks great when he is by himself or next to other Kia's but when you put him next to a Cadillac, he is exposed for being substandard.
> 
> HHH is a Cadillac, they don't get better than HHH. It isn't Punks fault, it is the WWEs fault for booking him against guys that are clearly on another level than Punk is capable of being on.


SO... Punk decking HHH and still get cheered and his name chanted was just an illusion and I am merely losing my mind?


----------



## Carv (Sep 12, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

You know why this feud is going so well? No one is carrying the other, no ones owning the other. They're elevating the feud together, as a whole, to a legitimate mega feud. Why anyone decides to pick it apart is beyond me. Sure it started off rough, *cough*Nash*cough* but what we saw tonight is nothing but a sign of good things to come. At least that's what my optimistic self thinks.


----------



## rcc (Dec 16, 2009)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

Yep, it's impossible to get behind CM Punk. I just don't want to hear a grown man whinge about his employer every week, some random senior citizen's text messages, his lack of a 7/11 cup etc. 

One thing that's just as irritating is this arrogant persona he's playing. I don't give a shit if some smarks cheered for you over DX years upon years ago. Sure, every main eventer has an ego. But you don't here John Cena coming out and saying, "Remember when I did that rap on the Big Show all those years ago. Man, that was awesome. I'm hilarious. I'm the best in the world." It's just not likeable.


----------



## Aficionado (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

I love these new CM Punk hate goggles some people seem to own that helps them filter out anything good Punk may say or do while enhancing his adversary's actions and words as if they were the nail in the coffin for Punk's character. This exact same thread will be created a couple months from now but the 'The Rock' will replace 'Triple H' and it will be for all the wrong reasons...again.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*

It's funny, because I saw Punk refuting every point HHH make and firing it back at him. What HHH was saying is how it should be, but not how it is, because personal feelings get in the way, and I'm not talking kayfabe, I'm talking backstage. What he said was complete bullshit tbh.

Here are a few examples:

1) The most obvious one, Alberto Del Rio. The guy for months the WWE has been pushing this guy down the audiences throat go get heat, and yet he rarely ever does. The audience doesn't give a fuck about him, but because Vince McMahon likes him (or so the dirtsheets say), he's pushed to the moon, and within a year is WWE Champion.

2) Sheamus... not today's Sheamus that the crowd wants to see and due to his popularity warrants a World Title, but back in late 09-2010, the Sheamus that became WWE Champion 5 months into his career when nothing warranted it... once again, according to the dirtsheets, he's a close buddy with HHH, and what do you know, he ends up a 2-time WWE Champion. They were both undeserved based on what HHH was saying.

3) Wade Barrett... the guy was a massive heel, and got the most heat a wrestler (not manager/commentator) has gotten since Edge back in 05-06, and has retained that title for that time period he was on top. I know perhaps the crowd didn't want him, since they hated him, so maybe he's not the best example, but he's the case where people would pay to see him finally get his ass whooped. Problem was, it came before he had a chance to capitalize on his moment with a WWE Title win, and after they have Cena crush him, they send him to SD, he forms the Corre, but does basically nothing with them, and goes further and further down the card and in the last 2 months he's hit rock-bottom. By HHH's logic, in a sense, he should have been WWE Champion. The people cared enough to boo the shit out of him... yeah maybe he was pushed too early, but he got a ton of heat, and what makes it worse is Del Rio is now WWE Champion.

4) Zach Ryder... this guy got over on his own, and he at least warrants being on Raw every week. I mean for god sakes, Santino used to get on Raw every week, even way past the point where people got tired of him. People might get tired of Ryder, and he may be booked as a joke character, but people want to see him on TV... so where the hell is he HHH? He gets on Raw every once in a while, and when he does, he always gets at least a decent pop, more than a lot of other guys, but he's not there consistently.

5) Kofi Kingston... Remember this guy back in 09, feuding with Orton, RED HOT, massively over... yeah HHH, what happened there... (and I know what happened, but still)

It's people like the guys above that make HHH's argument complete and utter BS. Sure, it works for some people, but those some people also have backing behind the scenes. And even if what he was saying was true, Punk was over quite a bit in 06-07... and even 08, although by that point his face character was two years old and he was stale by that point. He turned heel, is on fire for a few months, and then gets buried, and I hate to say this, but by Undertaker apparently because of some silly comment he made backstage. TBH, if anything, it looked like HHH was the child who was trying to pull straws as to why Punk never got the push to the top he deserved until just now, and he couldn't come up with anything good, but kept repeating the same thing over and over again even when it had been put down by Punk.

Now yes, I'm aware it's scripted, and all part of the show, but I've never seen HHH have material that was this terribly inaccurate, and I'd be willing to bet HHH at the very least makes his own material and runs it by Vince for the OK, and I hope this wasn't one of those cases.

But yeah, haters gonna hate, and it's the same exact people, all the time that hate Punk and is all I see of posts from them. It seems like they are growing more and more each week... not that I see conversions from liking Punk to hating him, but that new members pop out of nowhere and hate Punk. I notice this especially with Rock marks, and HHH marks, who seem to bash Punk to no end. Those that just hate Punk to the death need to read Starbuck's posts on the matter (the whole feud). I may not agree with him all the time, and his bias for HHH is usually very clear in his posts like the average mark (and yes, I'm an average mark for my guys as well ), but he at least keeps a civil tone in his posts and gives his opinions without him just mindlessly bashing something.

But yeah, that's my two cents, and this doesn't just go for Punk haters/HHH marks, it's the same for the complete opposite (Punk marks/HHH haters), although I haven't seem them as much recently, there are people who still mindlessly hate HHH and will jump on Punk's dick whenever they can. Can't we all be civil about different opinions (and thank you to those of you that are). It's one thing to disagree and explain why, it's another to scratch at each other with "FUCK YOU'S!"


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

It's not even the best feud in 2011.


----------



## Pojko (Jul 13, 2011)

*Re: The IWC is the voiceless*



DrunkHobbit said:


> If the IWC is the voiceless and Punk is our voice, we are a bunch of whiny little bitchboys that should stfu


Yes. The vast majority of members of this site are a bunch of whiners and complainers who have no patience, no foresight and overuse the words "buried" and "jobbed". And even when they get what they want they will still bitch about it not being good enough.


----------



## THNC (Oct 3, 2008)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Jericho Addict said:


> Cool insult man, way to make yourself look like an intelligent poster right off the bat. Kind of fucks up the fact you actually made a well thought out point this time.
> 
> As I've said already in this thread, Hart and HBK were from a different era. Not relevant to the era Punk is calling Triple H out on.
> 
> ...


1.Those two never really been pushed.

Otunga won a worthless tag title and was a lackey for Punk
that never got any mic time.

It's not like they forced Ryan down throats.He's on Superstars right now.

2.Surprise surprise.Punk got chants in PHILLY.


----------



## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

No. CM Punk has turned CM Punk into a whiny little bitch.


----------



## FreakyZo (May 31, 2007)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*



rcc said:


> Yep, it's impossible to get behind CM Punk. I just don't want to hear a grown man whinge about his employer every week, some random senior citizen's text messages, his lack of a 7/11 cup etc.
> 
> One thing that's just as irritating is this arrogant persona he's playing. I don't give a shit if some smarks cheered for you over DX years upon years ago. Sure, every main eventer has an ego. But you don't here John Cena coming out and saying, "Remember when I did that rap on the Big Show all those years ago. Man, that was awesome. I'm hilarious. I'm the best in the world." It's just not likeable.


How ironic. YOU sound like a whiny little bitch


----------



## THANOS (Jun 20, 2006)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



THNC said:


> 1.Those two never really been pushed.
> 
> Otunga won a worthless tag title and was a lackey for Punk
> that never got any mic time.
> ...


Yeah... CM Punk got his name chanted by 99% of that audience in a city that isn't even his hometown, less than a year after he first debuted. So did I get that about right. Plus Philly has long since been a crowd that has supported talent when they see it, despite their current alignment, and has chanted old school DX, Austin, Rock, Angle, Benoit among others plenty of times in the past and punk, only a year into the company, outpopped everyone in that entire payperview. Look it up I dare you.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



THNC said:


> 1.Those two never really been pushed.
> 
> Otunga won a worthless tag title and was a lackey for Punk
> that never got any mic time.
> ...


Surprise, surprise... someone negating a counterpoint with nothing but a vapid empty remark. Seriously, it's a good point to show he was over despite HHH's claim. Simply hand waving it does nothing.


----------



## Jericho Addict (Dec 18, 2005)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



THNC said:


> 1.Those two never really been pushed.
> 
> Otunga won a worthless tag title and was a lackey for Punk
> that never got any mic time.
> ...


They were pushed, they were put on tv. That is some form of push in this industry. They were too green and weren't ready.

It being in Philly is besides the point, he out popped SHAWN MICHAELS. That is something in itself. Not to mention this is just one example, as I mentioned in my post Punk was over as fuck during that period.

Well done for nitpicking at my points with little reason, you haven't really disproven what I've generally said..


----------



## aeriolewinters (Mar 14, 2010)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*



> It's not even the best feud in 2011.


You know, seeing your Username points to what you really are:

A parody of an Attitude Era fan. You're like Rikishi saying that you're doing it for the Rock, and It's horrible. I could've done better with better putdowns on Punk aside from just repeating everything you've said since the time you've appeared. So don't act as if you've watched Dwayne Johnson put on a show during the Attitude Era, I don't even buy that you like him at all, you're just attempting to be hip and cool with the other members, and Punk is just foil because, really he overshadows Dwayne in here. 

Like I said, I'm a Rock Mark, but I don't get mad at whoever The Rock is mad at. I understand that WWE needs to go Beyond The Rock, that's what a true Rock Mark does, Like his idol who puts many people over.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*



sp00kyfr0g said:


> As much as it pains me to say it, I have to agree with the OP. This Punk is not the same Punk as the one who fought Cena at MiTB. Punk vs Cena made Punk look like a legitimate badass with a devil-may-care attitude about him. Ever since this feud with HHH started, Punk has looked much less badass every week and more like what others around here have been calling him, a glorified internet troll.
> 
> My fellow Punk marks, I wouldn't get your hopes up on the crowd staying this behind Punk, even by next week. Canada is a notorious smark stomping ground. Add that to the fact that it seems the canadians have never forgiven HBK or HHH for their parts in the whole Montreal screwjob.
> 
> Anyways, this Punk can fuck right off. Bring back the badass who didn't give 2 shits about what people thought of him. That's the Punk I was cheering for during MiTB.


It's basically same guy only now there's someone pushing back. Cena, Vince they just lied there and took everything Punk dished out. 

Triple came in with points of his own and now it's just were you stand. Either you believe that Punk was held down and is the voice of reason or you just think he's whining.


----------



## "Dashing" CJ (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

I've noticed it too, I kind of want Hunter to kick his ass


----------



## rcc (Dec 16, 2009)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*



FreakyZo said:


> How ironic. YOU sound like a whiny little bitch


Cool, that's fine. Lucky for me I'm not a character on a TV show where it's my job to be likeable.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

Get over it fanboy, Orton/Christian was better.


----------



## devilish luck (Mar 12, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

It seems like he is whiny, but after N.O.C It will turn out that he was just correct. No matter who wins, it will be Nash back helping either HHH, or Johnny Ace. And it will still be the same type of mentality that Punk has been talking about. It will give him tons of stuff to work with. Nash back means that Punk can unload about how useless he is at this stage of career. Or HHH having his buddy back even though he is past his prime and just fits the big guy mentality.


----------



## aeriolewinters (Mar 14, 2010)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*



> WTF? get over it fanboy, Orton/Christian was better.


You did it for da Rock, didn't you? You did it for the peoplez


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

Let me ask you people this, and this question doesn't go out to people who have been hating Punk all this time since that promo, but for people who have turned on him because he's been whining... was he not whining during his 6/27 Raw promo? He complained about many things, in a "IT'S NOT FAIR" way, and he's been the same way all along. If you didn't like that originally and still don't like it, fine, but it's two-faced if you're now against Punk despite the fact he hasn't changed from the guy you loved 2 months ago. 

The truth is Punk is complaining, not whining like a little kid, but complaining because... well, he said it a week ago over and over again, HE WANTS CHANGE! The character and I'm sure the person. If you wanted change at your job as badly as Punk's character is portrayed to want change at that job, do you just sit back and hope something happens? Or do you take action, complain in a civil matter (as Punk has been doing) and push to get shit changed.

The only valid argument about him acting like a child is how he acted towards HHH those first few weeks, making jokes and poking him over and over again until HHH finally snapped and arranged to face him. He may have acted like a child there to get what he wants, but it worked, and that's what matters.


----------



## finalnight (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Leechmaster said:


> I'm thoroughly convinced this forum is full of retards.


It's still real to them damnit!!!

:lmao


----------



## Mr.Cricket (Feb 22, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

Orton/Christian-feud of the year. Despite being heavily one sided.


----------



## perro (Nov 19, 2008)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

Sad thing is all HHH did was point out the truth of Punk's Character


----------



## Sarcasm1 (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

whiny little bitch like Christian.


----------



## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

*This is why CM Punk resigned. Punk & HHH outshining Del Rio and Cena*

You have Cena vs Del Rio for the title yet CM Punk and HHH has been outshining every single of Cena's segments. Im sure most are looking more forward to Punk and HHH over the championship match. Im starting to think that he really doesnt care a ton about being champ he just wants to entertain. You dont have to be champ to be entertaining. Thats something i wish Cena would know. Punk could go after the US Title and still be great. 

Feuds have outshined championship feuds before like Cena and Nexus before but this time its someone else outshining the face of wwe. Yeah Cena is still showed and kinda focused on but the HHH and Punk segments have been the most entertaining parts of Raw recently. Is CM Punk just happy putting on a good show for us where it doesnt matter if he isnt going after the title now.


----------



## RKO85 (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: This is why CM Punk resigned. Punk & HHH outshining Del Rio and Cena*

Anybody can outshine alboring del rio but you already knew that


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: This is why CM Punk resigned. Punk & HHH outshining Del Rio and Cena*

It's not surprising really... Del Rio is booked as the normal cowardly heel against SuperCena. It's all been played out and it is done with people that many just don't care about. HHH and CM Punk offer an air of mystery and no one is really sure how it is all going to turn out. Though if Punk is buried that will be the end of that...


----------



## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

*Re: This is why CM Punk resigned. Punk & HHH outshining Del Rio and Cena*

The word you're looking for is "re-signed", not "resigned". Resigned means quit.


----------



## Gene_Wilder (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: This is why CM Punk resigned. Punk & HHH outshining Del Rio and Cena*

and that's the kinda guys you need in this business. Jericho is the best at this. Jericho could come back feud with and get Yoshi Tatsu over in 4 weeks.

I wonder what the locker room is like in the WWE regarding stuff like this. WWE should be creating competition within itself. Del Rio and Cena should be trying to top Punk HHH, Ziggler and Swagger should be trying to top Cena and Del Rio. Of course not everyone is afforded the same screen time to accomplish this but there has to be a spirit of competition somewhere backstage.


----------



## Carv (Sep 12, 2011)

Well yeah, Austin/Vince didn't need a title. But tbf, we had Rock/Mankind... so... this is kinda like that, just on a lesser scale lol. Way lesser. But hey, maybe Cena/ADR surprise us? *fingers crossed*


----------



## Gresty (Oct 15, 2010)

Where is my favourite guy JDMan at


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*



EnglishWrestling said:


> No. CM Punk has turned CM Punk into a whiny little bitch.


If you look at the report that he gets more creative freedom? You have a point.
Hunter hit him over with facts, all he could do was smile and try to change the subject as he always does when he has nothing to say, he also did it against Cena, he got cheers in Philadelphia *5* years ago? Wow, Hunter needed to finish it with one sentence: Even a blind chicken sometimes finds a grain.
HHH completely exposed him for the second time, this time, Punk seemed that he didn't belong to the same ring.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Jericho Addict said:


> They were pushed, they were put on tv. That is some form of push in this industry. They were too green and weren't ready.
> 
> It being in Philly is besides the point, he out popped SHAWN MICHAELS. That is something in itself. Not to mention this is just one example, as I mentioned in my post Punk was over as fuck during that period.
> 
> Well done for nitpicking at my points with little reason, you haven't really disproven what I've generally said..


You guys got pretty big double standards when it comes to pushing.

Punk's won just about every title in the WWE, but this right here is his 1st real push. In 2006 he was teaming up in match with DX and Jeff Hardy. That's not a push? He wins the ECW title in 2007, the WWF title in 08. 2 time money in the bank winner, IC champ, 3 time World champ and that's well before this feud started.

A body builder appears on TV. He's being pushed to the moon.
Aww it just Vince jizzing over a big guy again.

I don't think there's any denying that a big guy will get the 1st chance. The reason is pretty simple. You have to look the part. People believe that Batista will rip your throat off and hand it to you. Not so much with Punk hence why he's just complaining on the mic and not kicking any *ss like most faces do.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*



Rock316AE said:


> If you look at the report that he gets more creative freedom? You have a point.
> Hunter hit him over with facts, all he could do was smile and try to change the subject as he always does when he has nothing to say, he also did it against Cena, he got cheers in Philadelphia *5* years ago? Wow, Hunter needed to finish it with one sentence: Even a blind chicken sometimes finds a grain.
> HHH completely exposed him for the second time, this time, Punk seemed that he didn't belong to the same ring.


fpalm

Where do I begin? That your whole post is just as much bullshit as everything HHH said tonight? I mean, did you even listen to the promo? 

I agree with that last part, Punk shouldn't be in the same ring as HHH, he's above that.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

The program between them has flashes of brilliance. But I also haven't been too impressed over it like I was with Cena & Punk's program together.

Like tonight for example, Punk saying he respects Triple H for getting rid of Nash in the promo. When just last week the guy still believed Hunter and Nash were working together against him. It just doesn't make any sense. Add in other stuff like the shitty reason Nash text himself (why did he need to text himself, really?) to take out Punk. The storyline has kind of gone all over the place.

Still excited for the match on Sunday though.


----------



## Natsuke (Dec 2, 2009)

This feud is all over the damn place, and not in a good way.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*



I'm Your Papi said:


> The program between them has flashes of brilliance. But I also haven't been too impressed over it like I was with Cena & Punk's program together.
> 
> Like tonight for example, Punk saying he respects Triple H for getting rid of Nash in the promo. When just last week the guy still believed Hunter and Nash were working together against him. It just doesn't make any sense. Add in other stuff like the shitty reason Nash text himself (why did he need to text himself, really?) to take out Punk. The storyline has kind of gone all over the place.
> 
> Still excited for the match on Sunday though.


TBH, I think they are going to turn HHH heel, but they're trying to make it shocking now by completely ignoring the fact Punk still had his doubts after the firing last week. This way it comes out of left field, because if Punk preached that tonight, people would have kept that in the back of their head's for this Sunday. Now I bet most of the casuals have forgotten about that, which will make it a shocker once it happens.


----------



## sp00kyfr0g (Sep 7, 2010)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*



EBboy™ said:


> Let me ask you people this, and this question doesn't go out to people who have been hating Punk all this time since that promo, but for people who have turned on him because he's been whining... was he not whining during his 6/27 Raw promo? He complained about many things, in a "IT'S NOT FAIR" way, and he's been the same way all along. If you didn't like that originally and still don't like it, fine, but it's two-faced if you're now against Punk despite the fact he hasn't changed from the guy you loved 2 months ago.
> 
> The truth is Punk is complaining, not whining like a little kid, but complaining because... well, he said it a week ago over and over again, HE WANTS CHANGE! The character and I'm sure the person. If you wanted change at your job as badly as Punk's character is portrayed to want change at that job, do you just sit back and hope something happens? Or do you take action, complain in a civil matter (as Punk has been doing) and push to get shit changed.
> 
> The only valid argument about him acting like a child is how he acted towards HHH those first few weeks, making jokes and poking him over and over again until HHH finally snapped and arranged to face him. He may have acted like a child there to get what he wants, but it worked, and that's what matters.


I haven't turned on him, I am just disappointed by how he is now being presented. His original promo had legitimate gripes in it. His feud with Cena made him into this character that acted like "despite all that, I'm going to go out there and show you that I am the best. You WILL take notice."

That character seems gone. Punk has no more legitimate gripes, because he does have everything he wanted ( except ice cream bars, apparently). He has top-dog status. The WWE corporate machine is fully behind him with merchandise and the like. Hell, they probably paid big money to license an extremely well-known song for his entrance.

Yet the griping continues. On top of the griping, he then spends a few weeks taking cheap shots at one of the top faces in the company. Every single time he has been in the ring with HHH, he has looked like a child trying to argue with a much wiser adult.

Please don't take my complaints as me turning against Punk, because its quite the opposite. I love Punk, he is currently my favorite thing going for raw. It's because of that, not in spite of it, that I'm bitching about this. WWE are on the crux of taking this good thing that could become a great thing, and turning it into a complete disaster that'll leave Punk no better off than where he was before the promo, and the status quo completely unchanged. I don't think thats what most of us want to see happen.


----------



## shattered_dreams (Feb 1, 2011)

There's a part of me that wants to troll CM Punk fanboys but I'll refrain..... for now.

I hope Punk and the creative team try and expand his character after the outcome of NOC because, frankly, he is boring/whiny and comes off as passive aggressive.

IMHO, from what I've seen from his interviews, it seems like he really wants to become a "legend" by being himself ( for his own ego ["I made it here from my backyard by being CM Punk!"] ) and I don't know how he can do all of that without giving in creatively a little or being somewhat physically threatening in some way. 

This is professional wrestling after all; SCSA drank beer, kicked people's asses, messed with the boss, and had that look in his eye where you never knew when he was going to strike or raise hell. That was the charm of his character.

The Rock could talk real good and evoke charisma like Punk can, but also could lay the smacketh down at any given moment and was exciting to watch in the ring. He also showed different and entertaining sides to his persona ( playing guitar and singing about poontang pie, different references and phrases, etc. ) which kept things fresh.

Please CM Punk and WWE..... maybe you've got something planned but for now wrestling fans are practically begging for a legit star ( and not some cobbled ish forced down your throat star like Cena or even Orton ) to take over and entertain for the next few years. None of these current clones on the roster show that kind of promise right now, except maybe Barrett, and he's jobbing ATM. Go figure.


----------



## sesshomaru (Dec 11, 2006)

*Tonight, Triple H proved why he's a 13 time Champion.*

For all those who bitch about how HHH used his marriage to get ahead in the business, and burying talent, just watch tonight's promo. While HHH did use politics to get ahead, like HBK, he showed why he deserves to be at the top. Wow, HHH was amazing in that promo tonight. That was the best I've heard from him in years, and it shows once again why he was a excellent heal: great at serious/intensity promos. This thread is not about CM Punk, but about HHH's performance tonight, and that's why it's not in the big thread.


----------



## nba2k10 (Mar 26, 2011)

*Re: Tonight, Triple H proved why he's a 13 time Champion.*

What? Him being angry on the mic and repeating stuff numerous times shows why he is a 13 time champion? And this is one of his best promo's in years? Your obviously a troll.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Tonight, Triple H proved why he's a 13 time Champion.*



nba2k10 said:


> What? Him being angry on the mic and repeating stuff numerous times shows why he is a 13 time champion? And this is one of his best promo's in years? Your obviously a troll.


Him and Punk were both repeating the same points repeatedly. That's why Triple H said hey were just going in circles here. Doesn't change the fact that Triple was a very good in that promo and had a legitimate response to everything Punk tried to throw at him minus the ice cream garbage.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*



sp00kyfr0g said:


> I haven't turned on him, I am just disappointed by how he is now being presented. His original promo had legitimate gripes in it. His feud with Cena made him into this character that acted like "despite all that, I'm going to go out there and show you that I am the best. You WILL take notice."
> 
> That character seems gone. Punk has no more legitimate gripes, because he does have everything he wanted ( except ice cream bars, apparently). He has top-dog status. The WWE corporate machine is fully behind him with merchandise and the like. Hell, they probably paid big money to license an extremely well-known song for his entrance.
> 
> ...


I get where you're coming from, but the thing is, Punk still does have gripes. Not personal gripes, but he wants the company to be better, he wants wrestling to be cool. That's not just the real person, that's the character as well. They always say the best characters are just overblown self-personalities, and Punk is no exception. His whole Straight-edge thing in the Summer of 2009 was awesome, and the SES was a great concept, but poorly executed, but I digress.

Punk the character though has gripes about HHH, and that's why you'll see him going after him. Yeah, he always has gripes, but doesn't everyone? Nothing's ever perfect, which is why Punk's character will live on as the way it is. He's constantly trying to correct problems, but the amount of problems are infinite. It gives his character a lot of life, but people are already getting tired of it unfortunately because it is repetitive and getting annoying for some.

Thing is, top guys are repetitive. Hogan was, so was (and still is) Rock, so was Austin, so is Taker, so is HHH, so is Cena, so is Orton, in mannerisms, character, etc.

I've gotta be honest, I haven't understood the whole "Punk is acting like a child while HHH is the adult" since the contract signing, because since then Punk has stopped with the childish jokes and has kept it at a mature level. Sure, before that when Punk was trying to provoke HHH, that argument had ground, but now, it's just a way people are drawing straws to find something to hate about Punk. Even now, haters (not saying you're one) are just blatantly lying out of their ass/bending the truth to put down Punk. 

Some people can't stand Punk, but he moves merchandise, he can on a weekly basis at least get the crowd to chant his name at will, especially tonight, he was in complete control. Punk is here to stay, despite how much some people can't stand it.


----------



## fulcizombie (Jul 17, 2011)

*Re: Tonight, Triple H proved why he's a 13 time Champion.*

I thought he was disappointing but i can't wait to see him wrestle again. I always found the combination of his wrestling ability + character much better than his mic skills .

I wish he'd return as a permanent wrestler, since he's not that old but i understand why he wants to stay retired , he has paid his dues all these years , stephanie or no stephanie .


----------



## Post-Modern Devil (Jan 26, 2010)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*

I agree with the OP. The writing of this storyline is Just. Plain. *BAD*. Honestly, everyone who's saying Punk sucks is trying way too hard to place the failings of the character on the performer. Bad booking and bad characters derail can derail good perofrmers. Its not like ANYBODY else on the roster would have gotten this storyline over.

The feud is just badly booked and the actions of the characters made no fucking sense in respect to the context:

-Firstly, HHH's role in the whole Kevin Nash debacle. Kayfabe wise, if Triple H didn't send the text, then why was Nash given anything more than one promo. At the end of the day, kayfabe wise, HHH should know it's not gonna make Punk trust you when you harbor a guy who assaulted him; it makes HHH a hypocrite if anything to give his friend a contract unless he was in on the whole thing. Punk said a lot of ****, but HHH's handling of the situation was utterly pathetic.

-With Punk, the biggest problem with the whole thing was that the two you know *never actually brawled*. What killed the fued was all of the time spent talking about it but no physical altercation coming out of it. There is no reason why these confrontations have to be in the ring, there's no reason why Punk just can't sneak attack Nash in the back, and there is no reason for Punk to cut any promo outside the first one. He made it perfectly clear what he wanted to do to Nash the Monday after Summerslam, but never even made a serious effort to follow it up other than run his mouth. If they absolutely couldn't have the two brawl, then WWE should have provided a very clear explaination on why the two couldn't just fight given all of the trash talking (i.e. threat of being fired). 

-Thirdly, if Triple H is so serious about the match, _why does he restrain himself from attacking Punk before NoC_? He stopped being a professional when he made the match to begin with and he's the fucking boss and can order security to not interfere and doesn't face the threat of being fired. Even if Johnny Ace and the Board of Directors restrain the two, _HHH doesn't even try_.



The biggest problem with this fued was adding Triple H as a central figure in the Nash/Punk fued instead of keeping him as a background secondary character with his own little sub-plots with the two. Nash couldn't wrestle, but they could have simply had Punk say he was going to call out Nash at NoC, have a confrontation if not an actual match, and then have Nash fired at NoC and move onto the Punk/HHH feud for the next PPV. WWE rushed the whole thing, turning it into a confusing cluserfuck.


----------



## MarkMatthewz (Sep 2, 2008)

*To all CM Punk Haters*

So it's basically confirmed that most or a huge majority of the IWC hates CM Punk now. 

John Cena and CM Punk are the most hated guys on the internet.


Who will you guys mark for now, then hate a few months later? Ricardo Rodriguez seems to be the next national mark nowadays...


You people always complain. Cm Punk complains as much as you guys do because he is just like you people. He is one of YOU, yet that's the biggest complaint you guys have of him. Talk about hypocrites... 


So who is out next champion? who is our next mark? All Hail CULT WRESTLING Forum Dot Com!!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: Tonight, Triple H proved why he's a 13 time Champion.*



nba2k10 said:


> What? Him being angry on the mic and repeating stuff numerous times shows why he is a 13 time champion? And this is one of his best promo's in years? Your obviously a troll.


This, but meh, what can you do?



> Him and Punk were both repeating the same points repeatedly. That's why Triple H said hey were just going in circles here. Doesn't change the fact that Punk was very good in that promo and had a legitimate response to everything HHH tried to throw at him.


Fixed for ya.


----------



## TN Punk (Nov 10, 2009)

*Re: Tonight, Triple H proved why he's a 13 time Champion.*

Yes, very good promo!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

It goes to show despite how things may be now, anything can change in an instant.

My sig says it all. You can't please everyone.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

I love the whole "Punk was owned" crowd...

HHH "We listen to the fans..." - Ryder, MVP,Cena still being touted as the face, that very raw... uh huh... even the fans reacted in with a confused "really?" while Punk looked like he wanted to scream "did you watch this show.. this one, airing right now..."

HHH "That is why Cena is the man..." - hmmm... did you not hear the boos? Which feeds into the "we listen to the fans" bullshit. 

HHH "small list of not so big men" - okay, now lets list all the other "stars" and then those that got pushes despite not having the talent.... point destroyed. Punk couldn't respond here without seriously damaging kayfabe though. He would have had to attack booking and the whole scripting.

HHH "you weren't over" - Punk came right out and disproved this and he didn't even get to the chants he had been getting as a commentator...

HHH "list of your accomplishments" - kayfabe wise it looks good but that is a complete lie... look at his reigns and really one one was of decent length and wasn't booked poorly. But what the hell is Punk going to say here without taking down the real kayfabe... seriously... everyone that pays attention knows this is a crock of shit on HHH's part but sadly Punk can't counter because of the nature of the attack.

Seriously... HHH didn't own Punk but neither was he owned by Punk. It was a good back and forth that really seemed to get more fire to Punk. Hopefully they don't bury him and put over HHH.


----------



## BreakTheWalls (Apr 4, 2005)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

I think you're somehow overlooking a shit ton of signatures, avatars, and threads, because - as far as I'm concerned - Punk is _definitely_ still a darling of the IWC.


----------



## THNC (Oct 3, 2008)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

Nah,the internet is still full of Punk cheerleaders.Christian and Daniel Bryan too.

Those three guys are internet darlings.Not everyone online likes them but they not
really hated much.


----------



## MarkMatthewz (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



EBboy™ said:


> It goes to show despite how things may be now, anything can change in an instant.
> 
> My sig says it all. You can't please everyone.


So true. Love the sig


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

Didn't you say you were done watching Raw?

Welcome back i guess..


----------



## MarkMatthewz (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



THNC said:


> Nah,the internet is still full of Punk cheerleaders.Christian and Daniel Bryan too.
> 
> Those three guys are internet darlings.Not everyone online likes them but they not
> really hated much.


Then why are there 400 threads a day with "CM Punk is a cry baby, Cm Punk gets owned, Cm punk is overrated, Tired of Cm punk," every F**** day. It gets annoying. The raw thread is flooded with trolls daily.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Kabraxal said:


> I love the whole "Punk was owned" crowd...
> 
> HHH "We listen to the fans..." - Ryder, MVP,Cena still being touted as the face, that very raw... uh huh... even the fans reacted in with a confused "really?" while Punk looked like he wanted to scream "did you watch this show.. this one, airing right now..."
> 
> ...


This is the most truthful post I've read. I'd rep, but I have to spread around rep.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*



EBboy™ said:


> I get where you're coming from, but the thing is, Punk still does have gripes. Not personal gripes, but he wants the company to be better, he wants wrestling to be cool. That's not just the real person, that's the character as well. They always say the best characters are just overblown self-personalities, and Punk is no exception. His whole Straight-edge thing in the Summer of 2009 was awesome, and the SES was a great concept, but poorly executed, but I digress.
> 
> Punk the character though has gripes about HHH, and that's why you'll see him going after him. Yeah, he always has gripes, but doesn't everyone? Nothing's ever perfect, which is why Punk's character will live on as the way it is. He's constantly trying to correct problems, but the amount of problems are infinite. It gives his character a lot of life, but people are already getting tired of it unfortunately because it is repetitive and getting annoying for some.
> 
> ...


The wife jokes aren't the reason why people were saying he's acting like a child. It's the endless griping about the company and not being pushed. 

WWE has to know that the time for talk is gotta end right now. He's gotta to take over at NOC. WWE has to let him imply a vision because repeatedly stating that a problem exists is not a solution. It's just whining.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

lol @ the iwc turning on Punk. The same people hating hating on Punk are the same ones that been hating on him.

And no Punk doesn't represents me. We don't have the same interest. We don't share the same idea when it comes to what we find entertaining. We definitely don't have the same lifestyle except thirst for poon. I don't whine, bitch, complain my way into getting what I want (unless I know their racist).


----------



## MarkMatthewz (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



zkorejo said:


> Didn't you say you were done watching Raw?
> 
> Welcome back i guess..


I've been posting in the General Wrestling section
& thanks


----------



## Post-Modern Devil (Jan 26, 2010)

*Re: Tonight, Triple H proved why he's a 13 time Champion.*



sesshomaru said:


> *For all those who bitch about how HHH used his marriage to get ahead in the business, and burying talent*, just watch tonight's promo. While HHH did use politics to get ahead, like HBK, *he showed why he deserves to be at the top*. Wow, HHH was amazing in that promo tonight. That was the best I've heard from him in years, and it shows once again why he was a excellent heal: great at serious/intensity promos. This thread is not about CM Punk, but about HHH's performance tonight, and that's why it's not in the big thread.


FYI, a guy deserves to be at the top because he clerly manages to be the biggest draw, not just because he's talented in general (which no sane person can deny). Triple H at the time of his peak most likely wasn't such a bigger draw than his peers in the uppercard that him dominating the scene made up for the opprotunity cost of say not presenting Booker T, Jericho, or others of their caliber as viable top tier contenders and putting the machine behind them in terms of business. No one can say for certain, but HHH isn't exactly Austin, Rock, or Undertaker in star power all things considered.


----------



## GuruOfMarkness (Aug 10, 2011)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

Been damn proud of being the number one CM Punk hater since he cashed in on Jeff Hardy. He is a very talented wrestler though. Notice I said Wrestler, not sports entertainer. It's better marketing him to us smarks instead of casuals or kids, because they probably get confused by him. I just think he's annoying as of right now with the constant complaining, but hopefully he'll turn it around. As for the next bandwagon, look towards Seth Rollins. I'll stay off that boat though, he's boring as hell.


----------



## MarkMatthewz (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



Premeditated said:


> lol @ the iwc turning on Punk. The same people hating hating on Punk are the same ones that been hating on him.
> 
> And no Punk doesn't represents me. We don't have the same interest. We don't share the same idea when it comes to what we find entertaining. We definitely don't have the same lifestyle except thirst for poon. I don't whine, bitch, complain my way into getting what I want (unless I know their racist).


shutup troll, i don't even read your posts..


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Kabraxal said:


> I love the whole "Punk was owned" crowd...
> 
> HHH "We listen to the fans..." - Ryder, MVP,Cena still being touted as the face, that very raw... uh huh... even the fans reacted in with a confused "really?" while Punk looked like he wanted to scream "did you watch this show.. this one, airing right now..."
> 
> ...


I agree.


----------



## MarkMatthewz (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



GuruOfMarkness said:


> Been damn proud of being the number one CM Punk hater since he cashed in on Jeff Hardy. He is a very talented wrestler though. Notice I said Wrestler, not sports entertainer. It's better marketing him to us smarks instead of casuals or kids, because they probably get confused by him. I just think he's annoying as of right now with the constant complaining, but hopefully he'll turn it around. As for the next bandwagon, look towards Seth Rollins. I'll stay off that boat though, he's boring as hell.


You complain as much as him


----------



## Commodus (Sep 12, 2011)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

Punk is the most talented guy in WWE, bar none. He is also a vile, arrogant, repulsive human being.
Maybe that has something to do with why people hate him? Maybe it's something to do with his pompous, self-aggrandising personality and his willingness to bitch about the very fans who made him what he is today.
Fact is, he hates us all. The man has talent, charisma, a great gimmick and all the skill in the world. But he has no class. None, whatsoever.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



MarkMatthewz said:


> shutup troll, i don't even read your posts..


lol. What a loser you are. Punk got, got by Levesque. U Mad?


----------



## Natsuke (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

Ahhh, Fuck You.

No but seriously. No one hates him as much as you think, not even close. We're just confused as shit over wtf this feud was about. Punk vs Cena would have sold millions more. MILLIONS.


----------



## HeelHeat420 (Jun 18, 2011)

*Re: Tonight, Triple H proved why he's a 13 time Champion.*

What were you people watching lol and im not even a CM Punk nut hugger

I thought HHH was horrible and was owning himself by continuously saying "it their (fans) opinion that matters" and they kept chanting Punk's name. After the 3rd and 4th time, he started saying "Oh well its just one night, its just tonight"

Then after 80 percent of the promo was over, he decided to get all intense and in Punk's face, which was something fresh for once.

It wasn't the worst thing I've thing...obviously the best thing of 2 hours of disgustingly lazy writing, but HHH didnt own anybody and didnt carry the segment lol you people make me laugh


----------



## hockytalky (Mar 17, 2005)

If you closed your eyes and listened Punk sounded just like HHH when he did his heel turn in 99' which makes this feud odd because Punk still comes off as a heel. The Austin-McMahon dynamic worked because Austin looked like he could kick Vince's ass in real life but, when I see Punk go at it with Hunter I feel like he's just that kid who talks a big game then get's their ass kicked. Maybe if I never seen Hunter wrestle I could believe this angle but, HHH has done some horrendous things to get to the top and now I suppose to believe that a guy that's beaten all the recent greats will come out on the losing end to CM Punk. I don't know we'll see........


----------



## Theproof (Apr 9, 2009)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



GuruOfMarkness said:


> Been damn proud of being the number one CM Punk hater since he cashed in on Jeff Hardy. He is a very talented wrestler though. Notice I said Wrestler, not sports entertainer. It's better marketing him to us smarks instead of casuals or kids, because they probably get confused by him. I just think he's annoying as of right now with the constant complaining, but hopefully he'll turn it around. As for the next bandwagon, look towards *Seth Rollins*. I'll stay off that boat though, he's boring as hell.


Don't worry too much about him. His mic skills are atrocious. If he hasn't improved since his days in ROH he's going nowhere.


----------



## skolpo (Jan 25, 2008)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



Natsuke said:


> Ahhh, Fuck You.
> 
> No but seriously. No one hates him as much as you think, not even close. We're just confused as shit over wtf this feud was about. Punk vs Cena would have sold millions more. MILLIONS.


They've already done Cena/Punk. If they were to have another PPV match, everyone here would then be complaining about "same old shit."


----------



## Y2-Jerk (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

I still like Punk


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



Premeditated said:


> lol @ the iwc turning on Punk. The same people hating hating on Punk are the same ones that been hating on him.
> 
> *And no Punk doesn't represents me. We don't have the same interest. We don't share the same idea when it comes to what we find entertaining*. We definitely don't have the same lifestyle except thirst for poon. I don't whine, bitch, complain my way into getting what I want (unless I know their racist).


This.
Maybe he represent the typical internet mark who likes vanilla midgets with no charisma, not me.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

*Re: Tonight, Triple H proved why he's a 13 time Champion.*



Post-Modern Devil said:


> FYI, a guy deserves to be at the top because he clerly manages to be the biggest draw, not just because he's talented in general (which no sane person can deny). Triple H at the time of his peak most likely wasn't such a bigger draw than his peers in the uppercard that him dominating the scene made up for the opprotunity cost of say not presenting Booker T, Jericho, or others of their caliber as viable top tier contenders and putting the machine behind them in terms of business. No one can say for certain, but HHH isn't exactly Austin, Rock, or Undertaker in star power all things considered.


I agree but will add that HHH may not have Austin and Rock's star power then, but he still was the perfect heel, a perfect antagonist for The Rock, Austin, Foley, Taker.. Triple H completed all of the huge babyfaces, there was no heel like Triple H and maybe there never will.

You cant be a great hero unless you overcome a great villain. Triple H was that villain imo.


----------



## rcc (Dec 16, 2009)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

I love it how criticism over Punk's character direction immediately turns into, "everyone's hating him cos he's popular now. HATERZ GONNA HATE." 

Seriously, I've liked Punk ever since his first WHC run. The SES was awesome. I see you're also trying to make out that it's bandwagonning as well. Maybe, just maybe, people have jumped off the boat, because Punk's not been performing well of late?


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



Rock316AE said:


> This.
> Maybe he represent the typical internet mark who likes vanilla midgets with no charisma, not me.


No charisma... chanting his name... no charisma... fans chanting his name... no charisma... a lot of fans chanting his name...

Nope. Dead wrong yet again. Not surprised... not sure if you have been right about Punk yet.


----------



## MarkMatthewz (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



Premeditated said:


> lol. What a loser you are. Punk got, got by Levesque. U Mad?


I'm not even a punk fan you fucking idiot. lmao


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

Kabraxal said:


> I love the whole "Punk was owned" crowd...
> 
> HHH "We listen to the fans..." - Ryder, MVP,Cena still being touted as the face, that very raw... uh huh... even the fans reacted in with a confused "really?" while Punk looked like he wanted to scream "did you watch this show.. this one, airing right now..."
> 
> ...


I agree with this, it was all back and forth. And like you said there were times where one couldn't just make a comeback without completely breaking kayfabe.


----------



## MarkMatthewz (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



Rock316AE said:


> This.
> Maybe he represent the typical internet mark who likes vanilla midgets with no charisma, not me.


Exactly, you can say the same for everyone on the forum, we have different interests yet we have 1 main thing in common. COMPLAINING! That is how you people relate to him.


----------



## Theproof (Apr 9, 2009)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*



I'm Your Papi said:


> The program between them has flashes of brilliance. But I also haven't been too impressed over it like I was with Cena & Punk's program together.
> 
> Like tonight for example, Punk saying he respects Triple H for getting rid of Nash in the promo. When just last week the guy still believed Hunter and Nash were working together against him. It just doesn't make any sense. Add in other stuff like the shitty reason Nash text himself (why did he need to text himself, really?) to take out Punk. The storyline has kind of gone all over the place.
> 
> Still excited for the match on Sunday though.


Yeah I was like WTF when he said that.


----------



## Nut Tree (Jan 31, 2011)

Okay with the Mic being cut off at the end was dumb.


----------



## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

*The troll stuff from Punk is old and boring. I also think he missed his cue from HHH when HHH said, "go ahead hit me with your pipe bomb" and well Punk didn't hit him with it...until later. But that's fine. That promo dragged on forever. And I blame not only Punk but more HHH for dragging it out that long. Or perhaps the blame was back stage for giving them so much fucking time to say the same thing over and over and over. Ridiculous really. 

I liked the final shot though. I really liked that.*


----------



## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

*The fuck you talking about OP? The online community LOVES Punk. They worship Punk. They masturbate to Punk *perhaps I do too but for different reasons*. So I have no clue what you're talking about.*


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



MarkMatthewz said:


> Exactly, you can say the same for everyone on the forum, *we* have different interests yet *we* have 1 main thing in common. COMPLAINING! That is how *you* people relate to him.


You are included then.. "That is how WE people relate to him"!


----------



## Carv (Sep 12, 2011)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

If Punk's getting got, I want some of that. Constantly being cheered for over HHH and Cena, even hitting him with the mic and walking out (90% of the time would get you booed) but now. He walked away, closing the show, in a shower of cheers.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



MarkMatthewz said:


> I'm not even a punk fan you fucking idiot. lmao


and yet you're over crying about bitching because he's getting flamed. shut your dumbass up and go back into hiding.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

Kabraxal said:


> I love the whole "Punk was owned" crowd...
> 
> HHH "We listen to the fans..." - Ryder, MVP,Cena still being touted as the face, that very raw... uh huh... even the fans reacted in with a confused "really?" while Punk looked like he wanted to scream "did you watch this show.. this one, airing right now..."
> 
> ...


Some of that is surrounded by ignorance.

John Cena is by far and away the most profitable person for the WWE. Just because adults don't like him doesn't him that he doesn't legions of kids supporting him. Despite the boos he's over, and has earned every accomplishment he's gotten. Deal with it. Triple H is absolutely right about what he said about Cena. The people who want to turn him heel or push him down the ladder would run WWE into the ground in about 3 weeks.

Triple H left off some guys too. Edge 9 time champ, let's face it average wrestling body. Nothing special at all. Guerrerro, Benoit (obviously not going to mention him). Yeah guys with the look will get more opportunities but if you got talent, and connection to the crowd you will break thru. Unless you're MVP and conviently forgetting that he looks like a Power Ranger and has a felony on his rap sheet.

Outside of winning the Rumble and headlining Wrestlemania he's done everything possible in the WWE before this storyline occurred. ECW Champ in 07. 2 time Money in the Bank winner, IC champ, 3 time World champ. If you had to rank what WWE thought of him back in 09 and 10 it was probally around the 4-6 guy. Capable of being champ but not WM quality. They underestimated him, but not by the amount Punk wants you think.


----------



## Amber B (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

I love Punk enough to acknowledge that he can be one annoying motherfucker. Sometimes, he can be so annoying that the more he speaks, the less he makes sense and the brattier he becomes.


----------



## MarkMatthewz (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



LadyCroft said:


> *The fuck you talking about OP? The online community LOVES Punk. They worship Punk. They masturbate to Punk *perhaps I do too but for different reasons*. So I have no clue what you're talking about.*


Do you bother reading threads in this section? the 400 daily troll threads on how cm punk sucks? I'm not even a fan, but the trolling is obvious here. Maybe you should lock them instead of feeding into it.


----------



## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



MarkMatthewz said:


> Do you bother reading threads in this section? the 400 daily troll threads on how cm punk sucks? I'm not even a fan, but the trolling is obvious here. Maybe you should lock them instead of feeding into it.


*Yes. Do you bother to read who creates them? It's the same three-four people on here. 

As for locking them, fuck that, they are free to make their little Punk threads. And I do lock most. I don't lock all though lest I become a "Punk hater, OMG!"*


----------



## MarkMatthewz (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



Premeditated said:


> and yet you're over crying about bitching because he's getting flamed. shut your dumbass up and go back into hiding.



No one is crying but you. You cry in every thread with hatred and rage like cm punk raped a family member of yours. Wrestling isn't real, but these forums are. I am bitching about the complaining, and side taking these forums have been for years. The trolling is childish and annoying. You can never satisfy anyone.

Use your head..


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

The top guy has a target on his back. 

There's no such thing as being universally loved. Everyone has different tastes, styles, and it's not until you're on the top when people start to look to bring you down.

Just look at the old attitude era posts. Austin got flamed, the Rock got flamed, everyone gets flamed.

The important part is crowd reaction, and based off of tonight Punk's doing just fine.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



MarkMatthewz said:


> *No one is crying but you. You cry in every thread with hatred and rage like cm punk raped a family member of yours.* Wrestling isn't real, but these forums are. I am bitching about the complaining, and side taking these forums have been for years. The trolling is childish and annoying. You can never satisfy anyone.
> 
> Use your head..


Lol


----------



## Best Bout Machine (Jan 24, 2009)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

Anyone that "hates" CM Punk doesn't know greatness when they see it.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

GillbergReturns said:


> Some of that is surrounded by ignorance.
> 
> John Cena is by far and away the most profitable person for the WWE. Just because adults don't like him doesn't him that he doesn't legions of kids supporting him. Despite the boos he's over, and has earned every accomplishment he's gotten. Deal with it. Triple H is absolutely right about what he said about Cena. The people who want to turn him heel or push him down the ladder would run WWE into the ground in about 3 weeks.
> 
> ...


Cena makes money but to the fans he is not the man... sorry to break that to you people but when half the crowd hates you you are not the man. If everyone loves you or everyone hates you, then at least you can make an argument but he is half and half and thus NOT THE MAN. 

Big Show, Ahmed Johnson, Nailz, Sid Justice, Ezekiel, Mason Ryan, Khali... those alone are enough to show that size trumps ability to the WWE more often than not. No one is saying the little guy has never succeeded... we are saying that rare smaller guy will have to bust his ass and be something special to even get the chance to shine whereas a big man can walk right in and be pushed without proving shit half the time. Seriously... the fact you people are trying to argue that this isn't the case is proving you have no perspective at all.

READ WHAT I WROTE! Kayfabe it looks fine... but look at the booking and suddenly that list you so tout isn't so shiny. And Punk has simply stated that with his talent he should have been one of the main faces in the WWE years ago... he only became that in the last few months. Despite that "shiny" list he was never once pushed as a true top guy and was never viewed as someone that could be on Cena's supposed level... Punk proved his point by destroying Cena on the mic and capturing interest from a part of the audience that had all but given up on the WWE.


----------



## Rop3 (Feb 1, 2010)

Punk really needs to go back to the midcard. As much as it pains me to say this, even Cena is more entertaining in the main event. Punk is just a whiny brat.


----------



## Green (Dec 12, 2006)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

Its the same whenever someone new gets pushed into the spotlight. They become highlighted on a weekly basis, and inevitably some people will dislike them. Punk is fairly divisive to begin with, so its not surprising.

Haters and fans amount to the same thing anyway though. Look at Cena.

Punk is undoubtedly a star, however you look at it. You might find him annoying, you might find him repulsive. But he has that confidence/swagger you need to become a major player. He's arrogant as sin, and it works for him.


----------



## HeelHeat420 (Jun 18, 2011)

GillbergReturns said:


> Some of that is surrounded by ignorance.
> 
> John Cena is by far and away the most profitable person for the WWE. Just because adults don't like him doesn't him that he doesn't legions of kids supporting him. Despite the boos he's over, and has earned every accomplishment he's gotten. Deal with it. Triple H is absolutely right about what he said about Cena. The people who want to turn him heel or push him down the ladder would run WWE into the ground in about 3 weeks.
> 
> ...


Your Cena comments made me laugh. Obviously the boos, doesn't matter what age, shows that he isnt over as much as you make him. His shit is old and he's been getting this boos since 2005.

Guerrerro? Really man. His veins were popping out of his body like hell. Yeah, he wasn't a bodybuilder or 6 foot 5, but lets not forget it took him 20 years to get a world title. Same exact statement is true with Benoit. Now do you really want to start listing "big" guys that were main eventing when they had no fucking talent whatsoever. That list is a whole lot longer.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Rop3 said:


> Punk really needs to go back to the midcard. As much as it pains me to say this, even Cena is more entertaining in the main event. Punk is just a whiny brat.


.......... uh... seeing the same SuperCena BS is entertaining? Sure... sure... okay...


----------



## HeelHeat420 (Jun 18, 2011)

And I like how the moderator or however tried to make one thread for this. That always makes me laugh lol if people don't want to read it, then they won't click on it. If a post has 2 replies after an extended period of time, then delete it lol plus did you watch the fucking show? What fucking else is there to talk about, Raw was absolutely horrific.


----------



## Carv (Sep 12, 2011)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

There will always be love/hate for everyone, it's anyone who pulls an online vendetta who are the most sad. That goes for anyone attacking Punk, Cena, Orton, Christian, Miz and even other members of the IWC. It's the very definition of taking shit too seriously, that it becomes childish and just offputting.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



LadyCroft said:


> *The fuck you talking about OP? The online community LOVES Punk. They worship Punk. They masturbate to Punk *perhaps I do too but for different reasons*. So I have no clue what you're talking about.*


That used to be the case. Now everybody hates him and they've moved their markism for the one face that they actually do like to the goofy, Casper wannabe Irishmen, until they turn on him in 3 months, and it keeps going like that.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Tonight, Triple H proved why he's a 13 time Champion.*



EBboy™ said:


> This, but meh, what can you do?
> 
> 
> 
> Fixed for ya.


Punk was very good as well. I know this is a hard concept to understand, but there's truths in all sides of an argument. Not only did Triple H hold his own he rocked Punk on multiple occasions.

As much as Punk loves to complain about his booking, it hasn't been that bad. He's been booked as a 4-8 guy for most of his entire career. He wants to be 1-3 and that's fine that's what he should want, but the notion that WWE has been spitting on him every step of the way is just laughable. Outside of winning the Rumble and competing for the title at Mania he's done basically everything and that's before his promo.


----------



## TheLadderMatch (Jul 25, 2011)

*Re: Punk Vs HHH: Best fued in years.*

This feud is so over-analyzed. Need to stay away from these sections it's starting to ruin things for me.


----------



## Amber B (Dec 9, 2007)

I just don't understand why Punk, the guy that doesn't give a damn about what anyone thinks, cares so damn much about what HHH thinks of him. How many times is he going to say "you never liked me from the beginning"? How many times is HHH going to call Punk a "skinny fat ass"? The entire feud has been nothing but a back and forth "NO YOU!!" pissing contest with a side of IWC jizz lotion and Steph mentions (which is just more IWC jizz lotion). It's a one sided "personal" feud between two characters that are complete assholes with HHH playing the role of Seymour Skinner and Punk playing the role of Bart Simpson. The fuck? Hopefully the match this Sunday ends with no winner and the writers take a breather to untangle this messy feud that should be _a lot_ better than it is considering the players involved. 

Nash also took a ton of steam out of this.


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

I think CM Punk is mostly referring to the "faces" of WWE (The ones who truly represent WWE). If you look back we have Hulk Hogan, Rock, Austin, Triple H and now John Cena who were the face of WWE at some point. Can it be that WWE prefers the main guy that represents them to have a certain look to them?


----------



## Belladonna29 (Nov 12, 2009)

*Re: The IWC is the voiceless*



Pojko said:


> Yes. The vast majority of members of this site are a bunch of whiners and complainers who have no patience, no foresight and overuse the words "buried" and "jobbed". And even when they get what they want they will still bitch about it not being good enough.


*You're correct. 
That CM Punk/HHH promo tonight was basically a thread in this forum transformed into a live theater--and true to form, it was overlong and filled with contradictions and revisionist histories.
And while I've seen better segments, I've seen worse, but I'm positive that won't stop people here from:
1.) overstating their opinions as though it's scientific fact or 
2.) ironically criticizing HHH or Punk for basically saying what's said around here all the time on a number of issues.*


----------



## TheLadderMatch (Jul 25, 2011)

:lmao, people are jumping the gun badly. People saying the feud is messy, we haven't even had a match between the two. HHH has states his reasons why he dislikes CM Punk, CM Punk has stated that he wants change and in doing so, he wants HHH gone as COO.

Now, the feud wasn't built for months like we all had hoped, but if it wasn't for this feud, we would be having Del Rio vs. Cena as the main program, which has absolutely nothing going for it and CM Punk most likely would have been floundering around like The Miz is doing atm. Nash isn't capable to wrestle, so him and Punk's feud wouldn't have lasted long.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm glad it's happening now, it could all 'end' at WrestleMania, which would be a nice change since feuds usually start at WrestleMania. There isn't anything stopping the WWE from stretching this feud out, because I'm sure you guys don't want to see Cena/Del Rio for months whilst CM Punk does nothing.


----------



## Mr.Cricket (Feb 22, 2011)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

Turn Punk heel, and the IWC will be on his dick again.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

Kabraxal said:


> Cena makes money but to the fans he is not the man... sorry to break that to you people but when half the crowd hates you you are not the man. If everyone loves you or everyone hates you, then at least you can make an argument but he is half and half and thus NOT THE MAN.
> 
> Big Show, Ahmed Johnson, Nailz, Sid Justice, Ezekiel, Mason Ryan, Khali... those alone are enough to show that size trumps ability to the WWE more often than not. No one is saying the little guy has never succeeded... we are saying that rare smaller guy will have to bust his ass and be something special to even get the chance to shine whereas a big man can walk right in and be pushed without proving shit half the time. Seriously... the fact you people are trying to argue that this isn't the case is proving you have no perspective at all.
> 
> READ WHAT I WROTE! Kayfabe it looks fine... but look at the booking and suddenly that list you so tout isn't so shiny. And Punk has simply stated that with his talent he should have been one of the main faces in the WWE years ago... he only became that in the last few months. Despite that "shiny" list he was never once pushed as a true top guy and was never viewed as someone that could be on Cena's supposed level... Punk proved his point by destroying Cena on the mic and capturing interest from a part of the audience that had all but given up on the WWE.


WWE is a corporation. The most profitable person is the only thing matters. The most profitable guy is also going to be the guy with most fans 99% of the time. Just because people hate him doesn't mean he's not the man. He's got more fans than anyone else and it's really not debateable. He's 3rd all time in merchandise sales, it's just complete ignorance to pretend that he didn't deserve what he's gotten in the WWE. 

Adults hate a kid friendly product, too bad. A kid product makes more than what they're offering. If 1/3 of the crowd adores you and the rest couldn't give a sh*t it's actually worse than 1/2 the crowd loving you and 1/2 crowd hating you. You can afford to fantasy book the WWE. The WWE can't.

Big Show is extremely talented. You're seriously underrating him and the rest of the guys have a grand total of 1 championship. It's amazing what qualifies as a push and what doesn't in your guys mind. Daniel Bryan MiTB winner, muliple time mid card champion, buried. Mason Ryan was a lackey in the New Nexus, pushed to the moon. He's barely been on screen. What are you guys talking about?

Punk's been booked as a 4-8 guy since 08. He's done everything with the exception of winning the Rumble and Main Eventing WrestleMania. Sure he wants to be 1-3, a top star, but don't act like the company has been spitting on him his entire career. It's not the case. He's received 20 times better booking then any of the meat heads you listed.


----------



## TheLadderMatch (Jul 25, 2011)

CM Punk's character is working. He's opposing the regime, everybody likes someone who goes against the grain. HHH is slowly revealing more about himself, and instead of booking himself against CM Punk for 'business' reasons, he's gone out and said he basically fucking hates Punk. Very interesting. 

Somebody said CM Punk is the Bart Simpson whilst HHH is the Seymour Skinner, now, I have never met somebody who didn't like Bart? And despite Seymour not being a bad guy, he was never really liked by viewers. HHH is going to slowly turn heel, bring back Nash and they're going to form a 'Corporation' so to speak. Del Rio is most likely going to be the front-runner of this 'Corporation' perhaps behind HHH, and this will instantly put Del Rio to Main Event status whilst CM Punk looks like the awesome face who's fighting 'for the Universe'.

That's just 1 of the way this thing can go, of course WWE could put HHH as the face, and turn CM Punk heel and rehash CM Punk taking hostage of the WWE this time. But it would go against all the work they've done with him thus far.

Del Rio and Cena needs to pick up a peg, WWE can no longer mellow other feuds to make the big feuds look huge, they need to pump intense storylines all round. Miz needs to be doing something whilst he isn't at the top, he can't just come out and talk about SubWay until WWE decides they want him to run with the belt again.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

I knew this section was going to explode with stupidity such as HHH owning Punk or Punk's points being invalid.

EBBoy's posts have gone un-replyed, as usual. If you marked and supported Punk back on June 27th, you shouldn't be bitching about Punk being "whiny".


----------



## TheLadderMatch (Jul 25, 2011)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

I'm not his biggest fan but I'm not a hater at all. He's doing a good job, and he's getting big cause of it.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

Winning™;10306093 said:


> I knew this section was going to explode with stupidity such as HHH owning Punk or Punk's points being invalid.
> 
> EBBoy's posts have gone un-replyed, as usual. If you marked and supported Punk back on June 27th, you shouldn't be bitching about Punk being "whiny".


His points weren't that good.

It's just the normal if they pushed that guy they should have pushed that guy.

MVP is convicted felon whose ring attire looks like a Power Ranger. He was over, but had things working against him that people want to brush under the rug like it's nothing.

Wade Barrett. Nexus was over not just him. And the members of Nexus have had absolutely zero success since the group has disbanded. They went with Orton and Miz over him, and looking back at it oh well. I find it doubtful that Wade Barrett will ever be champ. He's not that interesting. He's got the William Regal flair to him without the amazing ring skills.

Zach Ryder. Should be on TV, but he's Santino, Too Cool. Comedy only.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

GillbergReturns said:


> WWE is a corporation. The most profitable person is the only thing matters. The most profitable guy is also going to be the guy with most fans 99% of the time. Just because people hate him doesn't mean he's not the man. He's got more fans than anyone else and it's really not debateable. He's 3rd all time in merchandise sales, it's just complete ignorance to pretend that he didn't deserve what he's gotten in the WWE.
> 
> Adults hate a kid friendly product, too bad. A kid product makes more than what they're offering. If 1/3 of the crowd adores you and the rest couldn't give a sh*t it's actually worse than 1/2 the crowd loving you and 1/2 crowd hating you. You can afford to fantasy book the WWE. The WWE can't.
> 
> ...


He is not the man still... the crowd response tells it all there. That is the problem with the WWE... fuck the fan we only think about the money. That doesn't work.

Big Show is decent, but not a constant top guy. They wasted air time with IC fueds for Ahmed and Zeke that could have been spent building better wrestlers that are over with the crowd. Just having Nailz on TV at all was an insult. Khali should never have touched the main event scene... he shouldn't be in the WWE period. Yet he has a world title... that is more than Dibiase, Piper, and Perfect can say. As a wrestling fan that is sickening... add in the fact that he has wasted time better devoted to talent like Tyson Kidd, Ryder, Hawkins, and the like.... yeah.

Another small caveat... Masters... pushed beyond belief because of his look then gets scapegoated and comes back smaller but miles better but never gets the push again. Please... the list of big men getting pushes is long... the fact you are arguing this is pathetic.

Punk was slated behind Cena, Orton, Taker, HHH, HBK, Edge, Jericho consistently in booking stature... merchandise wise he was not viewed as a top guy. Promotion wise he was not viewed as a top guy. Seriously, Punk until recently was over on merit with the crowd and the WWE never bothered to actually try and capatilise on it til he forced their hand a few months ago. The way he was booked never had him as a top tier talent. The way he was promoted never had him as a top tier talent. The way he was sold was never on the top tier. He was viewed as a second rate upper mid carder until just recently. So please, stop spouting that he truly ever had the WWE machine behind him before June because he didn't. 

Yes he has had more than some, but given his talent he has a right to feel misused and the fact he watches people with talent get released or never get a fair shake in the WWE he has a right to take the WWE task. The WWE has failed with their talent the past decade... simple as that.


----------



## Best Bout Machine (Jan 24, 2009)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



mr cricket said:


> Turn Punk heel, and the IWC will be on his dick again.


Yup. This will work with anyone, haha.


----------



## muttgeiger (Feb 16, 2004)

*Re: Tonight, Triple H proved why he's a 13 time Champion.*



fulcizombie said:


> I thought he was disappointing but i can't wait to see him wrestle again. I always found the combination of his wrestling ability + character much better than his mic skills .
> 
> I wish he'd return as a permanent wrestler, since he's not that old but i understand why he wants to stay retired , he has paid his dues all these years , stephanie or no stephanie .


I'm no big trips fan, but what could you possibly have found disappointing in that promo? For a guy who is a notoriously bad over-actor, I thought that was one of his most convincing promos ever. the acting lessons are defininitely paying off.


----------



## MarkMatthewz (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



RKeithO said:


> Yup. This will work with anyone, haha.


Sad but true...


----------



## sp00kyfr0g (Sep 7, 2010)

Winning™ said:


> I knew this section was going to explode with stupidity such as HHH owning Punk or Punk's points being invalid.
> 
> EBBoy's posts have gone un-replyed, as usual. If you marked and supported Punk back on June 27th, you shouldn't be bitching about Punk being "whiny".


I did reply to EBBoys post.

Anyways, Maybe I am over analyzing it too much. And there is still plenty of time for this feud to get extremely interesting. It is just right now, it seems like it could go extremely well, or horribly,horribly wrong. I'm just worried, I'd hate to see what has been one of the most interesting storylines in a while go the way of the nexus because of a few bad calls in character interaction during promos.


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

If anything only Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart, The Rock, Austin, Triple H and John Cena have been the top faces of WWE. Only Bret Hart would be deemed smaller than the rest. Point is that WWE likes their main top guy to have a certain look 85% of the time.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

GillbergReturns said:


> His points weren't that good.
> 
> It's just the normal if they pushed that guy they should have pushed that guy.
> 
> ...


MVP should have known that his past problems would be limitations one where he would go on the company. Besides, he's black anyways and he wasn't going to get anywhere near being a World champion despite how over he was.

Barrett is the sole reason why Nexus was even over and if he hadn't been there, Nexus would have failed from the start. Thus Barrett was over and carried the second half of RAW as the top heel. He'll be the World champion someday. He's an uber heel that is waiting to be pushed.

Well, sure Ryder is comedy material. Doesn't change the fact that he's over and has a strong following which wasn't even capitalized until Punk's angle.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Chicago Warrior said:


> If anything only Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart, The Rock, Austin, Triple H and John Cena have been the top faces of WWE. Only Bret Hart would be deemed smaller than the rest. Point is that WWE likes their main top guy to have a certain look 85% of the time.


And it can be argued Bret Hart only got the chance because of the steroid scandal at the time... then he got to let his ability finally show he was a legit champion.


----------



## Belladonna29 (Nov 12, 2009)

Winning™;10306093 said:


> I knew this section was going to explode with stupidity such as HHH owning Punk or Punk's points being invalid.
> 
> EBBoy's posts have gone un-replyed, as usual. If you marked and supported Punk back on June 27th, you shouldn't be bitching about Punk being "whiny".


It's amusing to watch the infinite IWC cycle of buzz/adulation/backlash/counterbacklash in progress isn't it?

What's more hilarious about the entire thing is that if Punk wasn't in HHH's face, complaining about the company or saying what he thinks of Hunter himself, there would be numerous threads, clamoring for someone to challenge HHH's authority or call him out in some fashion because "Raw Sucks" or "Everything is stale/predictable/boring/reused, etc."

What can you do?


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Eh, don't worry. Once NOC goes by with HHH turning heel, they'll all switch back.


----------



## black_napalm (Mar 31, 2010)

good lord...of all their promos, i never would have figured this one would have been the most divisive. it's like the punk vs hhh marks are coming out in droves...

first time viewing (and i know i'm probably in the minority) and it felt like both guys were slightly sub-par. i thought trips made a good point of telling punk essentially, 'we get it, you're a straight shooter. quit whining.' i also thought he made a great point with saying that true greats always find a way to get to the top (austin practically created his entire gimmick). 

punk's good stuff came from the fact that how you pushed also dictates how the crowd reacts to you. the only weakness i saw was that he seemed way too preoccupied with what hhh thinks about him. i get that though, personal part of it and all. he views hhh as the guy standing in the way of 'change'. 

the mic cutting was a nice finish as it allows punk to ask who is behind it. 

all in all, some people are getting way too worked over all this. i thought both brought up good points and neither refuted everything. as a whole, it just felt flat.


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



Tyrion Lannister said:


> That used to be the case. Now everybody hates him and they've moved their markism for the one face that they actually do like to the goofy, Casper wannabe Irishmen, until they turn on him in 3 months, and it keeps going like that.


Not everyone hates him. He's just got a lot of haters and a lot of fanboys too.


----------



## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

*Re: Tonight, Triple H proved why he's a 13 time Champion.*

I dunno if you could say that he proves that he deserves to be 13 time champ but he surely did cut a great promo no matter what blind haters might say. 

Same goes for Punk. This angle is actually a 2 man job and so far both of them have really delivered. There have been tons of mark out moments. This one was differently one of the best from HHH no doubt.


----------



## saucejuice (Sep 26, 2009)

Just chill sit back and ask yourself did this entertain you. This entertained me towards the end when he said thier real names and the mics shut off I almost lost my shit I spilled my beer got on the edge of my seat and had that big grin I used to get from seeing goldberg giving someone the jackhammer. This made me want to buy night of champions I haven't bought a ppv since wrestlemania 20, and I watch every raw. Would you have rather of watched this or see cena do his lil shoulder tap tackle five times to alberto and his announcer. I'd rather see the hhh punk promo we got to see. Punks first big promo and this one are the only entertaining ones I've seen in years with the exception of the rock. 

I like both these guys and think they are great together. HHH did a lil better tonight but punk has done better in the past. I don't want one doing a better promo every time. When the promo first started I knew it would suck because everything had already been said about this feud, but somehow these two guys made this very entertaining for me.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

Kabraxal said:


> He is not the man still... the crowd response tells it all there. That is the problem with the WWE... fuck the fan we only think about the money. That doesn't work.
> 
> Big Show is decent, but not a constant top guy. They wasted air time with IC fueds for Ahmed and Zeke that could have been spent building better wrestlers that are over with the crowd. Just having Nailz on TV at all was an insult. Khali should never have touched the main event scene... he shouldn't be in the WWE period. Yet he has a world title... that is more than Dibiase, Piper, and Perfect can say. As a wrestling fan that is sickening... add in the fact that he has wasted time better devoted to talent like Tyson Kidd, Ryder, Hawkins, and the like.... yeah.
> 
> ...


Yeah big guys get opportunities, but you're severely overrating the magnitude of these pushes. It's not a very hard to concept to understand. You have to look the part, and if you want to book someone as an undestructable force they're going to have to have some size to them. Nobody's believing that Punk is going to go on a Mark Henry rampage of terror. Still these guys you've listed have done nothing. They don't have a 1/10th of the resume Punk has. Mark Henry's career resume is not even close to Christian's. Masters never developed a personality during that time span you're referring too. Unless you count flexing your pecks.

You're blaming the WWE because nobody bought his gear until now? Headlining Summerslam, feuding with the Undertaker for the belt, that's not promoted as a top guy? Really? Punk gets mad when his indy friends get released. Does he have the right to be upset, sure. Does that mean he's right? Not necessarily. Most of these guys he's raving about will do the same thing in TNA that they did in the WWE. Flounder. They would do in WCW too if that still existed. There is a difference between the minors and the pros. Plenty of talented ECW guys fell flat on their face back in the Attitude era. It's a tough jump to make.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

It's an IWC ritual. Whenever someone gets hot momentum for them, there will always be their detractors. For every single person in that position. Nothing new.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

Winning™ said:


> MVP should have known that his past problems would be limitations one where he would go on the company. Besides, he's black anyways and he wasn't going to get anywhere near being a World champion despite how over he was.
> 
> Barrett is the sole reason why Nexus was even over and if he hadn't been there, Nexus would have failed from the start. Thus Barrett was over and carried the second half of RAW as the top heel. He'll be the World champion someday. He's an uber heel that is waiting to be pushed.
> 
> Well, sure Ryder is comedy material. Doesn't change the fact that he's over and has a strong following which wasn't even capitalized until Punk's angle.


I'd argue that the intial Nexus rampage is the reason they got over. Their collective lack of personalities is what did them in.

Barrett's got an okay personality. It's overrated here though.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

HHH was talking in circles most of that promo. I think it's good to talk about stuff like that live every now and then Triple H's responses weren't up to par. 

They've also been trying to milk as many Punk/HHH promos as possible which makes no sense to me, since they had to rush this feud due to Nash not being able to wrestle I guess they're not sure what to do.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

GillbergReturns said:


> I'd argue that the intial Nexus rampage is the reason they got over. Their collective lack of personalities is what did them in.


True. It had to get them over for even Nexus to be considered a legit threat to WWE in the first place anyways. Once everyone spoke, though, Barrett was the clear superior one getting the group over. Hell, looking back, I'm glad Barrett was the leader before Daniel Bryan. He kept the group staying together.



> Barrett's got an okay personality. It's overrated here though.


He's got a bland personality but WWE needs to fix that and he could be a top heel on the brand. Barrett embodies everything a heel should be and he'll get his world title reign soon enough. They have to build him up as a threat on his own rather than relying on a stable.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Winning™ said:


> True. It had to get them over for even Nexus to be considered a legit threat to WWE in the first place anyways. Once everyone spoke, though, Barrett was the clear superior one getting the group over. Hell, looking back, I'm glad Barrett was the leader before Daniel Bryan. He kept the group staying together.
> 
> 
> 
> He's got a bland personality but WWE needs to fix that and he could be a top heel on the brand. Barrett embodies everything a heel should be and he'll get his world title reign soon enough. They have to build him up as a threat on his own rather than relying on a stable.


They missed big with Barrett, if he were to win the title last year at the height of the Nexus interest it could of made him. Then again he might not of been ready for it but neither was Sheamus and even though I favor Sheamus, Barrett was playing the heel role better than him at the time.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

This whole "He's gotta work a while to even be considered a WWE title contender" thinking, which I still love, is gone obviously from WWE's hands. They give anyone they feel has interest towards them and beneficial to the company a World title reign whether it be Sheamus when he debuted less than six months before winning it, Swagger who got the title to basically hold around until a reliable hand was able to take it, or Del Rio who is only getting the title for the Mexico tour soon.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

MoveMent said:


> They missed big with Barrett, if he were to win the title last year at the height of the Nexus interest it could of made him. Then again he might not of been ready for it but neither was Sheamus and even though I favor Sheamus, Barrett was playing the heel role better than him at the time.


They pushed the Miz over Barrett. That's what people tend to ignore. They want to bring up Swagger or Sheamus's title run, but things come up, other wrestlers emerge. 08 is not the same as 09. If WWE didn't have another young star that they wanted to push at the time maybe Barrett gets his run but instead they chose the Miz.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



mr cricket said:


> Turn Punk heel, and the IWC will be on his dick again.


The IWC is a whole are a bunch of fucking morons that dont know what they want, one month they love this guy, but when that guy is dersevingly being used on tv, the IWC nitpicks the guy to death and moves on the there next internet darling.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

By the way, looking back at last night's promo, loved how the crowd applauded when Punk mentioned WWE's love of the "perfect" look. Seems they were more intrigued and interested in the promo than not at all and just putting themselves over.


----------



## metr0man (Mar 17, 2011)

yet another good angle ruined by shitty writing. How many big angles does WWE Creative have to blow with their unimaginative writing before people start blaming the true culprit, Stephanie McMahon?


----------



## ANTI_CENA (Sep 10, 2011)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

your all pathetic cm punk is *BETTER* then anybody in the wwe!! you haters are f'd in the head u should be hating cena he's the looser in the wwe

CM PUNK CM PUNK CM PUNK


----------



## The Ultimate Puke (Feb 9, 2004)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

It's in our nature to turn against whatever the next big thing is. It happened with Cena, it happened with Hogan before the nWo, it happened with Rock, and now it's happening with Punk. Face it, it's not about how good he is or how much he sucks...it's about what other people think and going against the grain. It's about being different to try and be cool and it eventually becomes the same. If you're in the majority, you're uncool...that's not just with wrestling, it's with EVERYTHING.


----------



## ANTI_CENA (Sep 10, 2011)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*



Bloodbath said:


> It's in our nature to turn against whatever the next big thing is. It happened with Cena, it happened with Hogan before the nWo, it happened with Rock, and now it's happening with Punk. Face it, it's not about how good he is or how much he sucks...it's about what other people think and going against the grain. It's about being different to try and be cool and it eventually becomes the same. If you're in the majority, you're uncool...that's not just with wrestling, it's with EVERYTHING.


no people turned on the rock and cena because they were shoved down our throats cm punk has only just come into the spotlight and those cenation ......s are spamming him


----------



## metr0man (Mar 17, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk HAS made it big, but why blow it, why not speak?*

lol OF course him hitting HHH was scripted.

He hit HHH BECAUSE Triple H is going to win on PPV. WWE does even Steven booking. If Punk was going to win HHH would pedigree him on this show.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



JDman said:


> Punk has no valid points when arguing with Triple H. HHH shot them all down.
> 
> HE IS THE FUCKING GAME, YOU WILL _FEAR _HIM...HE.IS.YOUR.GOD.


:lmao


----------



## STALKER (Apr 12, 2006)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

 

The IWC loves punk, only a few dislike him.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

*Re: CM Punk HAS made it big, but why blow it, why not speak?*

He hit HHH because he's fed up with all the bullshit and lies and conspiracy surrounding him in quite sometime. It was needed to make the match that much important.


----------



## faceface (Dec 15, 2010)

*Re: CM Punk HAS made it big, but why blow it, why not speak?*

Oh, damnit, it's still real to you. You poor thing.


----------



## Mojo Stark (Jul 1, 2009)

Christ, everyone's giving up on this feud before they've even had the first match... Sure, Punk's points weren't great in the promo, and Triple H got the upper hand. But people seem to forget that if Punk were to win every week, it wouldn't be an exciting feud. The promo was still pretty awesome and both guys were controlling the crowd brilliantly.

I swear, everybody here overanalyses things way too fucking much. I just sat back and watched two of my favourite guys go head to head on the mic again, and now i absolutely cannot wait til Night of Champions.


----------



## Emperor DC (Apr 3, 2006)

Paul was awful. Phil was awesome.

Truth/Miz is just a genius pairing.


----------



## lesenfanteribles (Nov 23, 2004)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

Kinda funny how fickle-minded those who used to like Punk but now hate him and would cheer for the next guy instead. I get the feeling the IWC wants everyone to turn heel LOL.


----------



## Tronnik (Feb 4, 2011)

*Re: Tonight, Triple H proved why he's a 13 time Champion.*



muttgeiger said:


> For a guy who is a notoriously bad over-actor, I thought that was one of his most convincing promos ever.


This.

They were both repeating the same shit and going around in circles but when Trips got angry and got in Punk's face I actually thought to myself "I may have to buy this PPV". Triple H was better than Punk tonight and impressed me more than he has in awhile. Question is, can they continue on a positive note without fucking up this storyline.


----------



## fulcizombie (Jul 17, 2011)

*Re: Tonight, Triple H proved why he's a 13 time Champion.*



HeelHeat420 said:


> What were you people watching lol and im not even a CM Punk nut hugger
> 
> I thought HHH was horrible and was owning himself by *continuously saying "it their (fans) opinion that matters" and they kept chanting Punk's name. After the 3rd and 4th time, he started saying "Oh well its just one night, its just tonight"*
> 
> ...


That was hilarious , IMO .


----------



## Scrubs (Jan 30, 2010)

*Re: To all CM Punk Haters*

You see, the world is in a constant spin. No matter what happens it will continue to spin. You're complaining about who people see as a talent on a Wrestling TV show? So in theory, you're complaining about complainers. I do find that ironic.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

He may be wearing a suit and tie, but Triple H hasn't changed one bit. The WWE Championship match between Alberto Del Rio and John Cena will most likely be the main event of Night of Champions yet Punk / Helmsley was the focus of RAW tonight!

- Vic


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Every single Punk/Trips promos is making Punk like a little bitch. Sure, Punk is better talker, but Trips is making much better arguments, he's practically killing him.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

How does HHH make better arguments? Maybe he delivers them better but I have to disagree with HHH making better arguments.


----------



## purple_gloves (May 7, 2011)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*



BlakeGriffinFan32 said:


> The IWC in 2000 felt negatively towards Stone Cold and the Rock. That's all I need to know how I feel about those on here and what they say about Punk.


This.

I watch a great promo between 2 great mic workers and then come and have a look at this forum and read retarded post after retarded post. Punk is getting boring,HHH owned him,Punk got some boos,HHH got some boos,breaking kayfabe is not cool,this storyline is shit,blah,blah,blah.....

The crowd was clearly behind Punk,they both did a great job at making their hate for each other look genuine,they both brought up some great points,and they have sold NOC to me!!

Success if you ask me.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Because Punks sees himself as Che Guevara of pro-wrestling or something (in this day and age), he constantly whines about McMahon/Helmsley era, while Triple H speaks from a business and personal standpoint. You know, the stuff about insults and that.


----------



## Densuke (Oct 9, 2006)

Is Punk still considered to be a face after last night or a heel again?


----------



## Broadside (Sep 4, 2011)

I'm a huge Punk fan, but HHH did own him on the mike. Punk needs to focus on something other than being "held back" and come across as less whiney. Just rip shreds on everyone and not give a fuck.


----------



## Camoron (Aug 24, 2004)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*



Natsuke said:


> This whole feud with HHH/Nash/etc is honestly really bad.
> 
> It makes no sense other than to us, because we know what they're talking about. And it's honestly blurring some lines that really shouldn't be blurred. This isn't groundbreaking. Punk was way more badass against Cena, that's a fact. The pure adrenaline rush of overtopping Cena was the thing it was all about. Now it's about corporate management and whatnot. It's gotten stupid.


I agree with this. I don't really understand what the point of bringing Nash in was if he's gone now. I'm more excited for Punk vs. Triple H than Nash, but not as excited as I was for the Punk/Cena feud. They just haaad to make Alberto the champion... :no:

The last bit was a nice departure. If it's supposed to be PERSONAL, then make it personal. I am fine with Punk insulting Triple H for being the oppressive "man in charge" or whatever, but don't complain about the WWE holding you back, or how they want bodybuilders, because it's not really relevant to the "personal" feud at hand.


----------



## Dazzerlyne (Sep 12, 2011)

Punks argument of being held back was destroyed by Triple H when HHH said bout Punks title, MITB wins etc. However, when HHH said bout Punk not getting cheers last year.. he was a heel he was not suppose too


----------



## ABigLegend (Sep 7, 2011)

Basically, WWE have toned Punk down. This isn't the Punk that we thought would say ANYTHING in the build-up to MITB. It's boring now. And that's not Punk's fault, it's how it's being booked. Playing the storyline that HHH gets the better of Punk on the mic is SO wrong. Why they are doing that baffles me. 

I'd prefer to see Punk getting under Triple H's skin, getting him angry, with edgy comments. That would be a lot more interesting than what they're doing right now imo. Making Triple H look superior to Punk doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

Camoron said:


> Natsuke said:
> 
> 
> > This whole feud with HHH/Nash/etc is honestly really bad.
> ...




^ Exactly. On one hand, the feud is personal. On another hand, it's a conspiracy. And then finally, we have tons of worked shoot and insider comments. The result is a big fat confusing convoluted mess!


----------



## ANTI_CENA (Sep 10, 2011)

punk > tripple h on the mic


----------



## Mr.Cricket (Feb 22, 2011)

CM Punk came off looking like a heel when he attacked HHH. Even some of the kids were chanting 'you suck' at him.


----------



## coleminer1 (Sep 22, 2010)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*



Big Wiggle said:


> Go watch Sponge Bob if you want basic story lines. Some of us like more complex and interesting things.


spongebob is more entertaining than any feud in the past year that didn't involve punk


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

piece of fucking trash the promo was.

how long you're gonna break kayfabe and shoot comments you idiot..


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Even though he barely did.....


----------



## ANTI_CENA (Sep 10, 2011)

Alberto del Rio said:


> piece of fucking trash the promo was.
> 
> how long you're gonna break kayfabe and shoot comments you idiot..


you left your taco at the migration centre.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

A heel punk is better than a face Punk in my opinion. You will always get guys chanting CM Punk's name whether he is face or heel anyway.


----------



## Johnny Cage (Sep 16, 2007)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Leechmaster said:


> I'm thoroughly convinced this forum is full of retards.


You're not the only one. Here's your answer to why people were bitching about The Rock and Stone Cold during the Attitude Era. Dudes, there were some retarded people in 1998 too, not only in 2011.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't want to say it but I don't even know what they are fighting for anymore. I'll ignore the fact that I simply loved the promo for a second here to say that this feud IS all over the place. I just don't get it. HHH wants to fight Punk because he insulted his wife and his family so what does Punk start talking about? He starts talking about himself and how he was held back etc etc. Then what does HHH do? Does he bring the focus back to the personal issue between the two of them? No. Instead he follows Punk's lead and we get 10 minutes of them talking about things that aren't relevant at all. Don't get me wrong, I loved it but it isn't relevant to this feud. It's too insider. How can they be talking about getting opportunities at the title and at MITB and this and that like that on live TV? FFS guys. They are pretty much telling us that Vince and co. decide who gets the belt and the chances instead of the characters on the show working for them. If this is what the so called Reality Era is going to be all about then I don't like it and it's going to fall flat on it's face. 

Having said all that, watching the two of them go head to head was brilliant and I enjoyed every second. Both of them had their high points but this week Trips takes it for me. I think that brings them 2-2 regarding who upped the other in their promos for me now. All even heading into Sunday. Every point Punk brought up, Trips countered it and pretty much shut him down. I didn't like Punk mentioning the ice cream bars again. When in the middle of a serious promo like that, to try and make a joke of everything by talking about stupid ice cream bars just made me shake my head tbh. I don't know if it's being given to him or if he is coming up with it himself but Punk's whole argument is that he was held back, that they didn't see him as a star/want him to be a star and that he has finally prevailed. Well that's great. He has prevailed so why is he still talking about it? How many guys have we seen make it to the top yet still whine and complain about the fact that 3 years earlier they didn't get their chance? This is what makes him come across as whiny for me. He's finally there so what's he still complaining for? If he's really all about change then he should be advocating for others instead of repeatedly talking about how he was held back etc. I don't want to hear that from him, I want to hear from the guy who kick started this whole thing back in June. I think that the fundamental argument for Punk is now flawed. He _has_ made it to the top and can therefore no longer have a gripe and by continuing to have one he is coming across as whiny. 

Trips said it best that they were going in circles because that's exactly what this whole thing has been about. Why involve Nash if he couldn't work? Why is Punk talking about things that aren't relevant? Why is HHH answering when he should be talking about why he wants to kick Punk's ass? WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY HAVING THIS MATCH!! No doubt I'll enjoy it and I can't wait for Sunday and who knows, maybe this will just mark the beginning of what we're going to get from these two but right now it's bittersweet. I'm excited but I'm disappointed over what this _could_ have been. Turning Trips heel is the wrong move and I don't think that can be stressed enough. It is absolutely NOT the right time and needs to be treated as the big deal that it is, not bumrushed in with the rest of this thing. Trips should also not go over clean as that would pretty much derail Punk's momentum. On the same side of the coin, Punk should not go over clean because he can hardly be this held back underdog type of character if he keeps winning against the biggest names there is. Something is going to go down. I'm calling Nash interference on behalf of Ace, he screws Trips, Punk wins, Nash beats down Punk, Ace is the new COO, Punk gets to be the biggest asshole he can be because nobody likes Ace/Nash and can thus effectively turn fully face. I just hope to God that the Buffalo fans don't sit on their ass like they did the last time and actually get involved in this match and the rest of the PPV.


----------



## joshman82 (Feb 1, 2010)

last nights "getting over" promo wasnt about hhh or cm punk. it was about the entire fucking roster. it was a message to them and to anyone with any talent they've ever had but just couldnt "get over". its not about what hhh thinks or vince thinks or jr thinks or johnny ace thinks or anyone else thinks. its what the crowd thinks and what the crowd wants. people need to stop bitching on twitter and back stage about how they dont have tv time, about being held down etc. no, if you want to make it, you have to get over with the fans. hhh is right, thats exactly what cena did. love him or hate him, he's the guy right now and probably will be for a couple of more years...just deal with it. if punk was listening, hhh was right about him too. he did bust his ass to get where he is. hell, even hhh paid his dues and busted his ass. yes he associated himself with the right people...but however he was associated with them when he was fighting in shit(hog pen matches) and getting squashed by the ultimate warrior. i really hope someone in the locker room was listening and paying attention to that promo last night. imo, it wasnt about punk and hhh, it was a message to the roster and the promo was fucking awesome. 

i would like to know what phil was going to say though..


----------



## Tombstoned (Dec 4, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> I don't want to say it but I don't even know what they are fighting for anymore.


HHH would have us believe he is standing up for corporate WWE and being professional, when in reality it will finally be revealed that Punk was right all along and its been one long screw job. Punk is fighting for...well, something opposite that, but it should work out in the end.



> Turning Trips heel is the wrong move and I don't think that can be stressed enough. It is absolutely NOT the right time and needs to be treated as the big deal that it is, not bumrushed in with the rest of this thing. Trips should also not go over clean as that would pretty much derail Punk's momentum. On the same side of the coin, Punk should not go over clean because he can hardly be this held back underdog type of character if he keeps winning against the biggest names there is. Something is going to go down. I'm calling Nash interference on behalf of Ace, he screws Trips, Punk wins, Nash beats down Punk, Ace is the new COO, Punk gets to be the biggest asshole he can be because nobody likes Ace/Nash and can thus effectively turn fully face. I just hope to God that the Buffalo fans don't sit on their ass like they did the last time and actually get involved in this match and the rest of the PPV.


I first called this as Nash interfering to help HHH, to cue the heel turn, but like you say its a bit of a rush. I think in that case we could see HHH get incapacitated somehow, Nash hits the ring and demolishes Punk again, HHH does the slow crawl and cover for the pin. That way it still looks as if HHH had nothing to do with it, they can lead in to the theorised Punk/Nash at HIAC and take things from there. Potentially HHH would continue afterwards with his "I'm a professional" act and appear to even side with Punk a little, only to turn on him properly in a months time in an "Its me, Austin!" moment.


----------



## varney (Mar 15, 2006)

joshman82 said:


> last nights "getting over" promo wasnt about hhh or cm punk. it was about the entire fucking roster. it was a message to them and to anyone with any talent they've ever had but just couldnt "get over". its not about what hhh thinks or vince thinks or jr thinks or johnny ace thinks or anyone else thinks. its what the crowd thinks and what the crowd wants. people need to stop bitching on twitter and back stage about how they dont have tv time, about being held down etc. no, if you want to make it, you have to get over with the fans. hhh is right, thats exactly what cena did. love him or hate him, he's the guy right now and probably will be for a couple of more years...just deal with it. if punk was listening, hhh was right about him too. he did bust his ass to get where he is. hell, even hhh paid his dues and busted his ass. yes he associated himself with the right people...but however he was associated with them when he was fighting in shit(hog pen matches) and getting squashed by the ultimate warrior. i really hope someone in the locker room was listening and paying attention to that promo last night. imo, it wasnt about punk and hhh, it was a message to the roster and the promo was fucking awesome.
> 
> i would like to know what phil was going to say though..



exactly, punk showed that even when getting exposure just to be thrown back into midcard that he still worked his ass of to get over, and to what phil was going to say....i was hoping for punk to say he banged steph


----------



## joshman82 (Feb 1, 2010)

varney said:


> exactly, punk showed that even when getting exposure just to be thrown back into midcard that he still worked his ass of to get over, and to what phil was going to say....i was hoping for punk to say he banged steph


yeah, i really hope someone in the back was paying attention. i hope someone like morisson, ziggler, swagger, kofi, someone, anyone was listening and paying attention. those guys are like, almost there..but just cant seem to get over the hump. and yeah, that would have been hilarious if he would have said that. hhh woulda went nuts.


----------



## Oxyntas (Feb 22, 2011)

ANTI_CENA said:


> punk > tripple h on the mic


Bullshit :gun:

Punk is great but let us not ride his dick plz .


----------



## EspartacusHughes (Sep 9, 2011)

It's all Triple H's fault. This asshole doesn't want to go corporate heel, he wants to stay face and go over. "Oh no, I'll get you another mic, but it's not my fault, I'm awesome". Bullshit. Just fucking act bad and let the FAN FAVORITE get cheered. Same thing with that retard Cena. The guy lets Punk win at MITB and doesn't want to be the poster boy because he always has to look cool.

Honestly, I only have respect for John Laurinaitis. He's the only one that accepted the evil corporate heel role while those two idiots try to pull rank and cling on their pathetic positions while basically destroying any interest this story could have.


----------



## joeisgonnakillyou (Jul 8, 2011)

HHH looked like the biggest hypocrite on earth last night.

HHH: "Hey punk look at cena he got over with the crowd unlike you"
fans: "boooooooooooooooooo CM PUNK! CM PUNK! CM PUNK!"
CM Punk: "ARE YOU FUCKING LISTENING?!"


----------



## Novak Djokovic (Jun 28, 2011)

With regards to Punk suddenly mentioning the ice cream bars, I was under the impression he really only said that because some dude shouted "ICE CREAM BARS!" seconds before rather than him just randomly bringing it up.


----------



## Smash (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



massajimmy said:


> Now all Punks band waggoners can hop of his meat pole. Triple H killed every argument he even had and cause fans to boo punk. Triple H owned him in every way. The boring shoot promos are old and played out now. Punk has been exposed. He is overrated.


I didn't hear any boo's for Punk, I only heard them for HHH. What show were you watching?

Punk did an awesome promo and made a lot of good points, so did HHH. The ending of the promo was great! I for one am happy with most of this story.

I also find it funny that Punk haters "whine" about CM Punk "whining". Hypocritical much?


----------



## jumpkid41 (Jun 28, 2011)

cm punk should be way over now if he is still feuding with cena, but instead, wwe let him feud with hhh (the king of burying wrestlers). cena should have been the # 2 guy right now..


----------



## RatedDCAIII (Jul 24, 2008)

Oh my god. This forum has jizzed their pants when CM Punk was setting off pipebombs a month ago. 

Now they are castigating him for the same thing. THERE IS NO PLEASING THE IWC.


----------



## Kalashnikov (Dec 30, 2010)

RatedDCAIII said:


> Oh my god. This forum has jizzed their pants when CM Punk was setting off pipebombs a month ago.
> 
> Now they are castigating him for the same thing. THERE IS NO PLEASING THE IWC.


1, The IWC is not one person.
2, Punk's stuff, although awesome, is wearing off its novelty fast.
3, Get it?


----------



## Nitromalta (Jul 27, 2011)

HHH will win on sunday


----------



## Deebow (Jan 2, 2011)

Last nights promo was extremely awkward. Punk would try to say something, then Triple H would respond back with basically what Punk was saying, then they would both pander to the crowd. It seemed like there were both trying to take the promo in completely different directions. Both guys were fighting for crowd support. On top of that they cut the promo off before Punk was finished, whether that was planned or not I do not know. 

Punk mentioning the Ice Cream bars to get a cheap pop was extremely lame. Though, Cole making his snarky comment after Punk said that was extremely unnecessary. Cole needs to keep his mouth shut during promos.

When Punk brought up the body builder thing, I knew that Triple H was going to throw those names out. I think Punk would of been better off going the route of the WWE only pushing guys that they make themselves. He would of had more ammunition. He could of named dropped a lot of guys or he could of brought up the fact that it took them forever to sign Daniel Bryan to a contract. He could of brought up WWE forcing established Indy wrestler to change their names just so the WWE could "own" them. If he is going to try and go into full on Smark mode, why not?

If he really wanted to be a dick, he could of mentioned the fact that for the past something like 3-4 years in a row, every WWE PPV has either had Randy Orton or John Cena or both in a World or WWE title match. This could of fit in with the whole Status quo thing. 

Usually I'm all for change in storytelling, and I don't mind face vs. face or heel vs. heel feuds, but this is one of the time where I think they need a clear cut heel and a clear cut face. 

I know I'm nit picking now and being a couch booker, but the reason I bring these things up is because every promo between Punk and Triple has been extremely awkward. Not only do they both wrestlers come off as egomaniacs, but it seems like both of them are fighting to stay face.


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

This feud is genius. Both characters are playing their role perfectly, that fact that some of you are yelling "stop whining" is proof that this is working. They want 50-50 Punk/HHH. They want some people going "fuck yes we need change" and some people "stop whining before HHH knocks you out with a sledgehammer." And by the way, whoever said Punk got boo'd last night obviously wasnt watching the show, he got the biggest reaction from the crowd by far.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Solid promo (The ending was really awesome).
I think the writers (or HHH) didn't expect Punk to be cheer that way because the main argument of triple h (winning the crowd) sounded stupid with all these cm punk chants. But i think that was the only problem in it.


----------



## ScrewYou (Jun 7, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Leechmaster said:


> I'm throughout convinced this forum is full of retards.


Sadly. Don't include me eh.


----------



## Big Dog (Aug 4, 2009)

Best Promo I've seen on RAW for a while, although breaking the forth wall will tend to do that just out of sheer uniqueness. HHH argument did sound stupid, Punk was getting cheered and has been for a while now, his feuds while not all to my liking (Hated SES period) have still got a lot of people interested in his character.


----------



## Tedious (Feb 8, 2011)

So was the microphone thing planned or not? If it was, that was some damn good acting. If it was, it was stupid on WWE's part and well improvised by both HHH and Punk.

Good promo overall, although I did get the feeling that Triple H did kinda win, but only because he was saying things Punk couldn't come back with without breaking kayfabe and ruining the storyline.


----------



## HeelHeat420 (Jun 18, 2011)

Tedious said:


> So was the microphone thing planned or not? If it was, that was some damn good acting. If it was, it was stupid on WWE's part and well improvised by both HHH and Punk.
> 
> Good promo overall, although I did get the feeling that Triple H did kinda win, but only because he was saying things Punk couldn't come back with without breaking kayfabe and ruining the storyline.


Please tell me that first question was sarcasm. It obviously isn't and there is no hope for you or anyone else who have to question whether or not it was "planned" as you said.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

This match needs to close the show. Del Rio/Cena doesn't mean shit and there's no way Henry/Orton will.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Tedious said:


> So was the microphone thing planned or not? If it was, that was some damn good acting. If it was, it was stupid on WWE's part and well improvised by both HHH and Punk.
> 
> Good promo overall, although I did get the feeling that Triple H did kinda win, but only because he was saying things Punk couldn't come back with without breaking kayfabe and ruining the storyline.


Of course it was!!


----------



## mblonde09 (Aug 15, 2009)

How the fuck did Punk get owned? HHH mad himslef look like a complete imbecile out there. Everything HHH said made no sense, because Punk has always been over. Punk could have owned HHH even more than he did by mentioning that HHH rode Michael's coattails on his way up, his backstage politicing and finally ingratiating himself into the McMahon family. His argument that Punk hadn't been held back was BS too - everything Punk got was mainly because of extenuating circumstances. None of his championship reigns meant a damn thing and every program he was put in was cut off at the legs. Punk has never had the full backing of the company, been heavily promoted or got attention he's rightfully getting now - that is what his whole damn argument is about. There are some really stupid, clueless people on this board.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

Location of the crowd has decided who gets cheered over the other so far.

It's funny that everyone here keeps stating how over Punk was, yeah that's true, but then they seem to forget the rest of the promos when Triple H was repeatedly cheered over Punk.

Today's Raw was in Montreal, Canada. Snarky crowd that's always had it in for Triple H because of the screw job. When it was in Wisconsin Triple H fans dominated.

If this feud is going to work Triple H has to be taken out. Punk doesn't have to turn heel at NOC but Triple H has to lose. Stephanie and or Lauranitis are the guys you want going up against Punk.


----------



## NJ88 (Jan 27, 2009)

I enjoyed the promo but both sounded pretty silly on the odd occasion.

CM Punks argument of the 'bodybuilder' fetish was pretty much shot down which made him look stupid. The argument was flawed obviously as there have been various big stars who didn't fit the bodybuilder mold. Steve Austin, HBK, Mysterio, Punk himself, Eddie, Edge, Jericho, Rock even, none of them are the bodybuilder type like Hulk Hogan they used to push so Punk sounded a little petty and pretty stupid with that argument.

Then Triple H came out with the reasoning that you get pushed for 'busting your ass year after year'. Then you take a look at some guys they've pushed and it's clearly untrue. You just have to look at the current WWE Champion for that, you can look at Sheamus in 2009 for that, or Lesnar in 2002. Then he stupidly said that you get a push based off getting over with the crowd...what? Once again you just have to look to Del Rio when he got his push for the last nine months or so. Then switch straight back and look at Morrison in 2010, Kofi for a couple of years etc and they don't get half the treatment Del Rio has gotten.

Both arguments were flawed and during the first part they both sounded a little silly. But once Triple H got serious and brought up the personal issues it was great, he was money in this promo. Punk was better aftewards too but Trips was the star of the promo and made it what it was. I enjoyed the mic shot at the end with the suck it gesture by Punk too. I do look forward to NOC to see what happens, I think Punk is too whiney and sarcastic to stay face so hopefully he's the one to get the heel turn.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

NJ88 said:


> I enjoyed the promo but both sounded pretty silly on the odd occasion.
> *
> CM Punks argument of the 'bodybuilder' fetish was pretty much shot down which made him look stupid. The argument was flawed obviously as there have been various big stars who didn't fit the bodybuilder mold. Steve Austin, HBK, Mysterio, Punk himself, Eddie, Edge, Jericho, Rock even, none of them are the bodybuilder type like Hulk Hogan they used to push so Punk sounded a little petty and pretty stupid with that argument.*
> 
> ...


While Trips was right about those guys, the bodybuilder thing shows just in the people they sign and Mason Ryan is a wonderful example of that. Big Zeke is another. Plus plenty of guys in the past too.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

mblonde09 said:


> How the fuck did Punk get owned? Everything HHH said made no sense, because Punk has always been over. Punk could have owned HHH even more than he did by mentioning that HHH rode Michael's coattails on his way up, his backstage politicing and finally ingratiating himself into the McMahon family. His argument that Punk hadn't been held back was BS too - everything Punk got was mainly because of extenuating circumstances. None of his championship reigns meant a damn thing and every program he was put in was cut off at the legs. Punk has never had the full backing of the company, been heavily promoted or got attention he's rightfully getting now - that is what his whole damn argument is about. There are some really stupid, clueless people on this board.


He main evented Summerslam, and then feuded with the Undertaker. Just because Punk says it's true a million time doesn't mean that's the case. That's a pretty big push right there, and ironically it was the Undertaker who ended up squashing Punk because he didn't like his attitude.

Punk's always been treated as 4-8 guy. He's done everything in the WWE with the exception of winning the Rumble and Headlining Wrestlemania. He does have a point that the WWE has never treated him as an elite wrestler, but it's an exaggeration to say WWE has been spitting on him too. Outside of Batista, Cena and Orton he's been their biggest star that didn't come thru the Attitude era. 3 time champ, 2 time MITB winner, IC champ, main evented Summerslam. I think most people would be estatic if they were working with DX and Hardy at their 1st Survivor Series. That doesn't sound like WWE thinks very little of you.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

People forget december to dismember
Punk was the only guy getting heat maybe even more than RVD and he gets eliminated first.
FUCK vince fuck triple H saying they do it for the fans and the crowd.

That's the problem with this promo, Punk can't say shit without breaking that "matches are pre determined people are buried" illusion.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

How the hell have I found myself not caring about this?!

And what the hell was Hunter talking about this guy










not being a bodybuilder?


----------



## NJ88 (Jan 27, 2009)

Brye said:


> While Trips was right about those guys, the bodybuilder thing shows just in the people they sign and Mason Ryan is a wonderful example of that. Big Zeke is another. Plus plenty of guys in the past too.


They hire them but it's not often they pushed them based just on size. I mean look at both the guys you mentioned. Ryan hasn't been seen on RAW in weeks and Zeke is jobbing to Cody Rhodes clean. They can sign them all they want buut it's very very rare they actually get pushed because they look like bodybuilders otherwise the guyys mentioned wold be in the main event.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

someone needs to show this to cripleH


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

NJ88 said:


> They hire them but it's not often they pushed them based just on size. I mean look at both the guys you mentioned. Ryan hasn't been seen on RAW in weeks and Zeke is jobbing to Cody Rhodes clean. They can sign them all they want buut it's very very rare they actually get pushed because they look like bodybuilders otherwise the guyys mentioned wold be in the main event.


It's still wasting a spot on the roster that could go to someone with some talent. I don't think he's just talking about the main event scene but more so opportunity to do anything. Like those rumors that Vince sees Skip Sheffield as a possible big name in the future. If true, wtf is that shit? I'm not sure if I even believe that rumor though.


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

I marked when they played the Triple H's build up video. It was the perfect symbolism of bury.


----------



## Revann (May 7, 2011)

GillbergReturns said:


> Location of the crowd has decided who gets cheered over the other so far.
> 
> It's funny that everyone here keeps stating how over Punk was, yeah that's true, but then they seem to forget the rest of the promos when Triple H was repeatedly cheered over Punk.
> 
> ...


It was in Ottawa, Canada. Not even the same province Montreal is in. Canada in general is a "smark" like crowd. Had nothing to do with the screwjob. Triple H/Cena and all the corporate guys can only get cheers in towns that follow the WWE the way the WWE wants them to follow it. They are sheep like. WWE needs to come to Canada more to get crowds like this. NOT like Toledo Ohio last week.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> How the hell have I found myself not caring about this?!
> 
> And what the hell was Hunter talking about this guy
> 
> ...


Bret Hart wasn't the best example, then again there's that guy in your sig who he missed.

Edge, maybe average in terms of wrestling size.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

lol I don't think WWE really cares what people in random midwest states enjoy.


----------



## NJ88 (Jan 27, 2009)

Brye said:


> It's still wasting a spot on the roster that could go to someone with some talent. I don't think he's just talking about the main event scene but more so opportunity to do anything. Like those rumors that Vince sees Skip Sheffield as a possible big name in the future. If true, wtf is that shit?


I'm not sure he was saying that tbh. I think he was saying that smaller guys aren't given the opportunity to reach the 'brass ring' and reach their full potential, not that they aren't given the time of day even in a jobber capacity. Mason Ryan isn't even featured on TV! So he cant really be used as an example, and Zeke is used to put smaller wrestlers over so he's actually quite useful since beating him should be slightly a big deal, Khali's not doing anything either and has been putting over smaller guys for years.

The Skip Sheffield thing is rumour, who knows if it's true or not. If it is then sure, that would be a good example, but we dont know.


----------



## TJTheGr81 (Feb 16, 2010)

Triple H going near the end when he was saying how Punk made it personal fucking kicked that promo into the epic category. Everything before was pretty topsy-turvy. Both guys had excellent points, then both guys just said things that made them look outright silly. Punk asking for the ice cream bars again was awesome though. But when they brought it back into storyline mode, it got fantastic. I kind of wish they hadn't of cut the mic off because it was really looking like Punk was going to kick it into an intense gear himself, but I guess the point of it is that in storyline terms, someone out there doesn't want him to cross THAT line. But there's HEAT between these guys. More heat than any other storyline in the company right now, the only way I see this NOT closing the show is if WWE doesn't want to end the show on a swerve, which I'm 98% sure is gonna happen. Other than that, fuck Cena/Del Rio, Ricardo has been the best thing about that storyline (though in fairness, Ricardo is just awesome, period), Henry/Orton has more heat, but still not enough to main event the show.


----------



## rawesjericho (Sep 9, 2008)

greendayedgehead said:


> How the hell have I found myself not caring about this?!
> 
> And what the hell was Hunter talking about this guy
> 
> ...


lol wut? bret looks like a bodybuilder to you in that pic?


----------



## MrWalsh (Feb 21, 2010)

He should have at least said eddie guerrero


----------



## Fabregas (Jan 15, 2007)

I thought it was strange how they made CM Punk look bad by giving CM Punk a retarded argument like "The WWE favour big wrestlers" and then making Triple H squash the argument.

Why do a promo in which CM Punk is clearly wrong? It's like they're trying to turn the fans against him now.

Didn't work last night but still, what was the point?


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Wax that ass.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

eddie is a bad example imo
The first time I saw him in 04 after not seeing him since 01 my first immediate reaction was that he was on the juice.


----------



## Riddle101 (Aug 15, 2006)

*The CM Punk delusion*

Now don't get me wrong. I love Punk and think he's the most entertaining guy on Raw, next to Triple H. But let's look at the so called "Summer of Punk" for a minute. Since his shoot promo on WWE back before Money in the Bank, which to me kickstarted the whole CM Punk phenomen that's being going on the last few months. Everybody has praised Punk to no end, with little negativety whatsoever, save for a few guys on here who might not be Punk fans. But of course it's the IWC, and the IWC favourites tend to overrate the guys who are considered the best. Oh yes, we saw it with Chris Jericho when people would praise him even for something little like saying "I'm from Winnipeg idiot!". Now Punk seems to be getting all the attention, and people prasing him for the little things. However i'm going to be frank. I keep seeing ****** in CM Punk's armour and am wondering now, if all this is going to continue on. How long will it go on for? and does Punk have what it takes to remain consistant and keep the fans on his side?

You see I notice when Punk cuts a promo on his own, he's great no doubt. But in the ring with someone who is equally good on the mic, he tends to flunder abit and seems to come off looking bad nearly all the time. For instance, I would say the majority of promos Punk and Triple H have had together have come out with Punk looking worse off then when he started, and not just because HHH seems to have great comebacks for every argument CM Punk makes. But also because he just presents him in a bad light sometimes. Punk comes off as populist to me. Someone who talks about wanting change and yet, does nothing about it so it just seems like all he's doing is ranting on the mic all the time. If Punk was a politician, I'd be weary about trusting him tbh. But my point is, if Punk dosen't follow up with this somehow, his popularity is going to sink with the fans because all he's doing is ranting and calling people up on things. He also came off bad in that promo he cut weeks ago with Cena and HHH, when Cena called him up on all the stuff he was saying. Cena made Punk look like a chump and so did HHH. Which brings me to my next thing.

Does Punk have the ability to talk the talk and walk the walk? Can he stand his own in the ring with other wrestlers who are great on the mic? People say they'd love to see a CM Punk/Rock promo or a CM Punk/Stone Cold promo. Now that's where I tend to wonder. If HHH and Cena can handle Punk then what about these guys? Both are awesome on the mic and are quite expierenced in the art of one on one promos. So putting Punk in with them will be interesting. Not to see how good the promo will be but to see if Punk can hold his own against them. 

Anyway that's just something I wanted to talk about on here because after seeing his promo on Raw this week with Triple H, i'm starting to wonder about Punk a little bit.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:lmao @ that tweet.


----------



## TJTheGr81 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Re: The CM Punk delusion*

While I wouldn't necessarily say he "flounders," he does have a tendency to fall into the same routine of the angry, wall-breaking rebel, which is fine and entertaining, but when you hear it every week it loses its purpose. I think maybe the freedom that he's apparently been given on the mic has become a little bit of a crutch in that when he doesn't really have a solid rebuttal, he can just say something that makes the smarks go "oooh." I think Punk can go with just about anyone on the mic, he just needs to realize that sometimes, maybe less is more.


----------



## Smash (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: The CM Punk delusion*

First I would like to say.. You are comparing CM Punk to HHH, SCSA and The Rock. Just saying.

Also, Punk is doing a lot more for change than anybody else is in the business. If we didn't have his shoot promo on 6/27.. Last nights RAW would have been fucking awful and I would have wiped my hands from WWE for good. Seriously the only thing good about last night WAS the promo with HHH and CM Punk. What exactly do you expect him to do to instil change? He doesn't own the company... I think he did the only thing he could do and he did it well. HHH brought up some good rebuttals last night and they bounce off eachother so well. This promo is the only reason I am buying NoC.


----------



## scrilla (Jan 18, 2008)

*Re: The CM Punk delusion*

CM Punk > your favorite wrestler. btw Punk was far better than Trips on the mic last night. Trips was stumbling over his words multiple times. Punk is more comfortable. Punk is superior.

/thread


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: The CM Punk delusion*

I never want to see a Punk/Rock promo because this forum would turn into the biggest shit storm of all time.


----------



## mblonde09 (Aug 15, 2009)

*Re: The CM Punk delusion*

Especially after Punk outshines the Rock.


----------



## MarkMatthewz (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: The CM Punk delusion*

yay, yet another punk thread...


----------



## joeisgonnakillyou (Jul 8, 2011)

*Re: The CM Punk delusion*

Punk did everything he could.

HHH/Nash killed it not punk.


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

kokepepsi said:


> eddie is a bad example imo
> The first time I saw him in 04 after not seeing him since 01 my first immediate reaction was that he was on the juice.


Yeah did anyone not notice his biceps?


----------



## mblonde09 (Aug 15, 2009)

*Re: It's official. The WWE had turned Punk into a whiny bitch*



massajimmy said:


> Why was there never an excuse for the Rock when an angle didnt go right? You know why? Because he was a real damn star, thats why but every time punk fails and shows his true colors someone wants cry. People have been telling punk dick riders for the longest that he needs shoot promos to be a top star. He isnt good.Point,blank,period.Those long boring promo segments dont help him either. He only became a big deal because of a shoot and now everyone realizes he just flatout sucks and should go back to being a jobber.


Ninja, please.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The CM Punk delusion*

It was up to Punk to bring in new viewers with his mic skills and he filled miserably. As the so called best on the mic, you're suppose to make something out f nothing. So I don't get why his apologist are bringing up the angle fail. I'd hate to bring the Rock in this, but The Rock feuded with Billy fucking Gunn and still manage to be the best feud during that period. You know why? People he could adjust and adapt.


----------



## What_A_Maneuver! (Aug 4, 2011)

I thought it was a pretty cool segment last night. In terms of selling the match. 

A lot less 'personal digs' as well, which is a good thing at this stage. Otherwise the story-line won't progress and you'll just get Punk coming out and digging at HHH every week.


----------



## Smash (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: The CM Punk delusion*

We keep comparing CM Punk to the likes of SCSA, Rock and HHH who are in the top 10 greatest wrestlers of all time. What does that say about Punk if you keep comparing him to them? Just sayin


----------



## doinktheclowns (Feb 27, 2011)

*Reasons punk boom has come down a little.*

Now I love CM Punk and liked him back to his ECW days, in ring and on mic he is one of the best.
But there are a few mutterings of CM Punk support dropping a little.
And here are a few reasons why I think this may be happening.


1.So hes just starting to get over, everybody loves him the crowds are going mad for him (I do know that most nights he has a larger chants than anybody including Cena and Orton), hes cut some of the best promos in the history of the WWE, and the guys in suites realise that they really have somebody who can be at the same heights as Cena and Orton.

But then I get the feeling they push him and then get a little nervous (maybe due to the fact of his size which they keep mentioning) and I feel like every time they push him they kind of pull him back again and make it difficult for him, the guy is basically out there every week with Cena,Del Rio,Nash,HHH, Nash and Vince on his back.

2.WWE are sometimes pretty stupid, so they have this guy whos been with the company a while put in a lot of hard work and finally gotten to the top, so instead of helping put him over, they put him in a feud between to legends the crowd still love HHH and Nas, this makes it confusing for people who dont know whether to do with the new guy or the old guys who have been here for ages winning everything on their way.

They have almost put him in a heel position and HHH in a face postion.

To Punks credit which the WWE should note is how much they fans still love him even in this role.

But to put him over you hardly put him in there against HHH.

3.For me changing his theme music is also a little bit of a downer, great song but after the first few seconds it dies out and is nothing like as agressive as his previous theme.

4.Barring last night they hardly preserve the guy, they bring him out sometimes 4/5 times a night even if that where Cena or Orton the crowd reactions would be diluted.SAVE THE GUY!!!

5.In places he has started to become more whiny and little bit to much moaning, a little less conversation a little more action please.

and finally Punk is arguably the best technical wrestler in the WWE yet he up until now has out fought or anilated anybody and won in a clean victory, i think if he had a long grueling match with HHH and managed to win clean it would totally put him over.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*I think This board needs some education on What actually makes a good promo.*

ITS NOT ALL ABOUT CROWD REACTION.


The primary goal of a promo between two superstar is to "SELL" the ppv. That is what they should be doing. That is their Job.

Back and forth Bickering and the Crowd reaction, while it is fun to watch, does not make a good promo. 

Last Night in the Promo between Punk & Triple h , HHH definitely had the better of Punk.

Triple h did what he was Suppose to - *SOLD THE DAMM PPV LIKE A BOSS.*
He convinced me enough to buy the PPV when he stopped talking on the Mic which Punk failed to do.

This is what People mean when they tell you HHH carried Punk on that promo.

As for the Back and forth , Punk was being so extremely whining & Complaining about the same thing over and over again. I dont Understand why he is still complaining even after becoming the TOP guy??
What more does he want? 

When Triple h talked about "getting over" he was referring to Punk's past 6 years in the company not the present. I think Punk never got that clearly, he kept saying "Are you listening Now?" 

Punk's SS-06 reference was like John cena coming out saying "hey everybody i used to be rapper in 2003 & everyone used to love me & that makes me best in the world". 

It was immature. Ice cream bars & Body builder Fetish totally took the promo to somewhere else irrelevant to the feud at hand.

Triple h saved that Segment tbh. 


I think the biggest Problem is Punk trying to appeal to the audience/fans. Its not working. Kids dont like him, Adults can see through his promos. ALL he wants is to be the top guy,he doesnt care about the fans. 

PUNK should admit it & Turn heel at N.O.C imo. 


babyface Punk is a fail.


----------



## CP Munk (Aug 13, 2011)

*Re: I think This board needs some education on What actually makes a good promo.*

wut


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

*Re: The CM Punk delusion*



> Does Punk have the ability to talk the talk and walk the walk? Can he stand his own in the ring with other wrestlers who are great on the mic? People say they'd love to see a CM Punk/Rock promo or a CM Punk/Stone Cold promo.


That's irrelevant, you just degrading Rock, Austin and HHH, that's like saying Khali is a better wrestler than Benoit.


> Cena made Punk look like a chump and so did HHH


That's true.
HHH hit him over with facts, all he could do was smile and try to change the subject as he always does when he has nothing to say.


----------



## Smash (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Reasons punk boom has come down a little.*

HHH will go heel @ NoC and beat punk (dirty hopefully) and everything will fall into place.


----------



## scrilla (Jan 18, 2008)

*Re: The CM Punk delusion*

lol @ comparing Punk on the mic to Khali in the ring and it's the Punk fans that are delusional?


----------



## Keyblade (Apr 12, 2011)

*Re: I think This board needs some education on What actually makes a good promo.*

Nice job rating your own thread.


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

*Re: I think This board needs some education on What actually makes a good promo.*

One guys opinion


----------



## Mr.English (Apr 6, 2009)

*Re: I think This board needs some education on What actually makes a good promo.*

Don't think you know what I like in a promo, you don't. A good promo IMO should have a good crowd reaction, if the crowd isn't interested, why should I be?


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

GillbergReturns said:


> Bret Hart wasn't the best example, then again there's that guy in your sig who he missed.
> 
> Edge, maybe average in terms of wrestling size.


Yeah but average for a wrestler is still pretty fuckin' large . Guys like CM Punk are small for a wrestler and I think that's what he was getting at.



rawesjericho said:


> lol wut? bret looks like a bodybuilder to you in that pic?


Read above, he was certainly no CM Punk, or Christian come to it.


MrWalsh said:


> He should have at least said eddie guerrero


Boy was roided _up_. His muscles had muscles. While he wasn't the tallest, he more than tried to make up for it (tragically)


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

This is what I've been saying. The basis of a promo is selling a match and ppv. Last night Cripple H clearly did that. He sounded pissed off. Like he really wanted to kid the dog shit out of CM Pink. Pink hardly even mentioned the match they are having this Sunday. Pink kept going on and on about the past.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

LOL triple H body builder defense.
Bret and foely where the top guy about 13+ years ago.
Bret was no small guy either he had a cut up physique. 
If you look at Shawn and HHH from 96-97, Shawn was bigger,more defined than hunter.

I guess cripleH couldn't come up with recent examples.
Oh wait rey.
Rey never got the push he deserved. He has never been given the top spot he has always been more over than his push.


Anyways batista,orton,cena,lesnar the last guys to be given the top spot are not that small huh.


----------



## mblonde09 (Aug 15, 2009)

Premeditated said:


> This is what I've been saying. The basis of a promo is selling a match and ppv. Last night Cripple H clearly did that. He sounded pissed off. Like he really wanted to kid the dog shit out of CM Pink. *Pink hardly even mentioned the match they are having this Sunday. Pink kept going on and on about the past.*


I don't know what is more pathetic, you or your sig.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> Yeah but average for a wrestler is still pretty fuckin' large . Guys like CM Punk are small for a wrestler and I think that's what he was getting at.
> 
> 
> Read above, he was certainly no CM Punk, or Christian come to it.
> ...


Edge might be an 1 or 2 inches taller and has a lean muscle toned body compared to Punk's untoned body, but it really isn't that big of a deal. What actually separates Edge from Punk is looks not size. 

The point is Edge, Hardy, Michaels they weren't the body builders that Punk says controls the industry.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Don't worry about Premeditated. He liked Punk up until he felt like trolling which is actually documented on this forum in an old thread.


----------



## DahStoryTella (Aug 25, 2008)

I believe that Triple H was better than CM Punk in this face off, but I was entertained by both. Also, was the mic issue a work?


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

kokepepsi said:


> LOL triple H body builder defense.
> Bret and foely where the top guy about 13+ years ago.
> Bret was no small guy either he had a cut up physique.
> If you look at Shawn and HHH from 96-97, Shawn was bigger,more defined than hunter.
> ...


How about Edge & randy orton for recent examples?? 

You cannot argue that Punk should be the Top guy like an equal to Cena just because he is good promo guy (i dont know if thats even true anymore). 

Great wrestlers dont always make it to the top. Not every Great talker makes to the top. 

What Punk is demanding to be is the No 1 guy like cena. 

its not his choice to make , its not even WWE's choice. 
Its the people who decide the top guy.


WWE gave punk all he wanted. He couldnt get over like the way cena did.
How is that HHH or WWE's fault??


----------



## Volantredx (May 27, 2011)

The thing I like is that you felt like these two guys would really like kick the shit out of each other. When Punk said this is beyond the business that this Phil Brooks kicking Paul Levesque's ass it hit hard because it didn't feel like a throw away line given how much both prefer their wrestling names. I like how the work shoot thing is striping away the story aspect without making the matches look fake. 




mblonde09 said:


> I don't know what is more pathetic, you or your sig.


Please don't feed the trolls


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

I think Punk can be second coming of Austin With all this Anti - Authority Reality storyline. 

But he just isnt as badass as Austin.

Punk is definetly better on the mic than austin. maybe even miles ahead.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

Mysterio, Edge, Miz. None of those guys has a intimating physique. All of them won WM main events.

Let's stop with this body builder non sense. Just because Mason Ryan had one strong outing against Kane and Show doesn't mean he's been pushed to the moon. He was a lackey for Nexus that had one strong booking.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

The hypocrisy from Triple H was outstanding. 

"My opinion doesn't matter... THEIRS does!"

And all that talk about 'getting the crowd on your side'. Puh-lease. That's why Zack Ryder isn't on television, right? Why Del Rio is the freakin' WWE Champion? Why MVP and so many others never got a shot? Why Colt Cabana got chants on several Raws and at MiTB and _still_ can't get a shot?

That's pure bullshit. People are only allowed to get over if Vince, Triple H and the rest of them WANT them to get over. Hey, if they like a guy enough, they won't let a silly little thing like how un-over they are stop them from pushing them to the moon.

The outright lying, politics, hypocrisy and just plain bullshit is damn annoying. They don't give a damn what we think and that is Punk's point exactly.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

where are you guys when punk was owning him in the last 3 weeks ha, so one promo proves that trips is better, he was terrible the fans proof him wrong were is trips chants? he said maybe they are with you tonight really? that what you can come up with they are with punk from the beginning he was owning you and your wife too..

suck it terrible h:


----------



## Pillzmayn (Apr 7, 2011)

*Re: I think This board needs some education on What actually makes a good promo.*



Mr.Broski said:


> ITS NOT ALL ABOUT CROWD REACTION.
> 
> 
> The primary goal of a promo between two superstar is to "SELL" the ppv. That is what they should be doing. That is their Job.
> ...


lol capat again.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

But I don't want to spread reputation before giving it to TankofRate again, pop-up window.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Fucking capat. Can he not find another forum?

Great post by TankOfRate btw. (Y)


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

sigh this is stupid.

Punk needs to bulk up. It's not like he can't. If he his bitching and whining about body builders then he should gain some mass for fucks sake.

Oh yeah he doesn't like steroids.

Back to the mid card with you then and working dark matches with drew I guess.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I was really pleased to see some intensity out of Triple H rather than just constantly talking calmly. I started getting a bit sick of this whole feud, but I really enjoyed the promo last night and Punk mentioning the "bodybuilder fetish" was awesome. At least this match has built up properly unlike everything else.

It is beggining to feel a bit like TNA with all the worked shoots though. Saying each others real name was uneeded and just feels like they are trying to make the IWC interested by saying these things.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

andersonasshole900 said:


> I was really pleased to see some intensity out of Triple H rather than just constantly talking calmly. I started getting a bit sick of this whole feud, but I really enjoyed the promo last night and Punk mentioning the "bodybuilder fetish" was awesome. At least this match has built up properly unlike everything else.
> 
> It is beggining to feel a bit like TNA with all the worked shoots though.* Saying each others real name was uneeded and just feels like they are trying to make the IWC interested by saying these things*.


Yeah I hated that. Im not a fan of that at all.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

kokepepsi said:


> sigh this is stupid.
> 
> Punk needs to bulk up. It's not like he can't. If he his bitching and whining about body builders then he should gain some mass for fucks sake.
> 
> ...


But why? Seriously, why do FANS have this mentality? Punk can work in the ring, Punk can talk, he's charismatic and damn entertaining. WHY should it matter to you whether or not he looks like Mason Ryan when he's proven that he can put on a great performance? What will be gained from him having slightly bigger muscles?


----------



## Lastier (Sep 19, 2009)

Phil and Paul did a good job. I, as a little Jimmy, am pleased.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

TankOfRate said:


> The hypocrisy from Triple H was outstanding.
> 
> "My opinion doesn't matter... THEIRS does!"
> 
> ...


MVP was a convicted felon and his outfit looked like a Power Ranger. He's such a terrible example to bring up. Yeah he was over, but he was lucky the WWE brought him in with his past. It put limitations to how far they could push him. 

Zach Ryder belongs on TV, but he's comedy only ala Too Cool and Santino. His lack of a push is not that big of a deal, and his push doesn't translate into cash.

Del Rio might not be over here, but he is over in Mexico. Ryder, MVP not so much. WWE wants to expand down into Mexico and Del Rio is a great opportunity to do that. Triple H couldn't say it but I think it was implied. If you can make the WWE money you'll get pushed. The way you make money for the WWE is by getting over with the fans and putting butts in the seats and moving gear.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

JBL was not over and was the lowest drawing champion for the WWE since Diesel.
Yet they gave him the strap for a full year?

So what was the point of that? to put cena over in a match that no one gave a shit about. He ended up at raw anyways.

Vince pushes who ever the fuck he wants he does not care about fans.
To him we are just a bunch of marks.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

TankOfRate said:


> The hypocrisy from Triple H was outstanding.
> 
> "My opinion doesn't matter... THEIRS does!"
> 
> ...




I agree Triple h's argument was flawed but so was punk's argument.

What punk Wants is to be the TOP guy like John cena.

The guys wwe pushed early like sheamus or del rio were never the top guys like Cena. 

Brock lesnar is the guy that wwe pushed heavily based on what punk was talking about, not cena.

Cena wasnt pushed by vince for looking big.
Cena made it on his own.

How is that you cant understand this? 

HHH was right about cena everyword of it.


Punk is a multiple time world champion. how is that not a push? 


WWE is business there are always exceptions .. now and then they take chances like Swagger, sheamus , Del Rio, brock lesnar but the No.1 guys in the end have always been the one whom the people want.

Its not punk's choice to make or WWE's choice. Its the people who decide the top guy. 

It takes more than just talent to get over apparently.
*Talent to make the fans like you* is important.


----------



## mblonde09 (Aug 15, 2009)

kokepepsi said:


> sigh *this is stupid*.
> 
> Punk needs to bulk up. It's not like he can't. If he his bitching and whining about body builders then he should gain some mass for fucks sake.
> 
> ...


Yes, this is a seriously stupid post. Punk prides himself on the fact that he's NOT a bodybuilder and has achieved success without fitting the stereotypical WWE image or taking shortcuts by using steroids. If he started bulking up, he'd look like a complete hypocrite.


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

The whole bodybuilder thing or that Vince prefers big guys *to represent* their company is true IMO. 

Here are the guys who were the faces of WWE at some point

1980s Hulk Hogan
1990s Bret Hart
Late 1990s-2003 Rock Austin
2003-2005 Triple H
2005-present John Cena


















































Only Bret Hart I guess didn't fit the "big" mold.
Now Mick Foley, Shawn Michael's, Rey Mysterio may be legends in their own right but they were never the "top" guy or the "man". Point is that WWE prefers their "top" guy to have a certain look.


----------



## Gene_Wilder (Mar 31, 2008)

People are dumb. So dumb. Punk and HHH aren't beefing over the same things and that's fine I love it actually. Punk doesn't give a shit that HHH is upset over what he said about his wife. HHH doesn't give a shit about how Punk feels about the wwe. Its brilliant. I can see it being a bit messy for some of you with the comprehension level of a 9 year old but let me tell you this feud has been awesome. They both have legitimate beefs, different beefs but both legitimate. They don't like one another but for different reasons, when they get on the same page the feud will shift into another gear. You people once again fail to show any patience and any ability to see beyond what's in front of you. Once HHH feels satisfied for defending his wife then the feud can progress. After NOC HHH and Punk will both be on the same page. After NOC it'll be all about HHH Punk and the position of COO. 

To you idiots wanting HHH to turn heel so CM Punk can shine, fuck you, nobody is gonna side against HHH after what CM Punk said about his wife if anything CM Punk is lucky the fans don't boo him -- but that speaks to CM Punk's ability to be a tweener and that's a real credit to him. 

Let the fucking feud build you twits.

Both HHH and Punk walked away believing they won their debate, that's how arguments go, both people believe they're right. I love that neither one gave an inch on their points. That's, wait for it, reality.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

thank you chicago warrior 
@mblonde I messed up with my sarcasm..........relax bro


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

mblonde09 said:


> Yes, this is a seriously stupid post. Punk prides himself on the fact that he's NOT a bodybuilder and has achieved success without fitting the stereotypical WWE image or taking shortcuts by using steroids. If he started bulking up, he'd look like a complete hypocrite.


May be he should have stayed in R.O.H

Why is he in WWE despite knowing the vince 's mentality??

Punk keeps bashing the rock for leaving WWE to hollywood for money and fame but what about him? Didnt Punk leave R.O.H , the pure wrestling company, to WWE for money and fame??

answer that.

Even though he is in the top tier now , he is still bitching about it constantly WTF??


----------



## Nexus One (Jul 4, 2010)

> To you idiots wanting HHH to turn heel so CM Punk can shine, fuck you, nobody is gonna side against HHH after what CM Punk said about his wife if anything CM Punk is lucky the fans don't boo him


Nobody cares about Stephanie McMahon..she's hated by true smark fans and the causals don't care at all. He should call Cripple H a main event David Otunga..because all of his real success didn't start to happen until the Stephanie shit kicked in. His first two title runs in 1999 were laughable failures.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

Chicago Warrior said:


> The whole bodybuilder thing or that Vince prefers big guys *to represent* their company is true IMO.
> 
> Here are the guys who were the faces of WWE at some point
> 
> ...


Lol No shawn micheals. 


1990s bret hart ?? hahaha

What about the miz at wrestlemania 27 ?? Didnt WWE made him the champ? he doesnt look like body builder to me.


----------



## Maximum007 (Jan 29, 2010)

Powerful promo from Triple H. Yeah, Punk did get owned in this one because Triple H covered all of CM Punk's points and gave him a dose of reality.


----------



## Parts Unknown (Dec 22, 2010)

There's a lot I'm sure either guy could have said but at the end of the day you can't go around openly saying this shit is a work. Like Punk couldn't go out and bury Khali for instance.


----------



## Oxyntas (Feb 22, 2011)

Gene_Wilder said:


> People are dumb. So dumb. Punk and HHH aren't beefing over the same things and that's fine I love it actually. Punk doesn't give a shit that HHH is upset over what he said about his wife. HHH doesn't give a shit about how Punk feels about the wwe. Its brilliant. I can see it being a bit messy for some of you with the comprehension level of a 9 year old but let me tell you this feud has been awesome. They both have legitimate beefs, different beefs but both legitimate. They don't like one another but for different reasons, when they get on the same page the feud will shift into another gear. You people once again fail to show any patience and any ability to see beyond what's in front of you. Once HHH feels satisfied for defending his wife then the feud can progress. After NOC HHH and Punk will both be on the same page. After NOC it'll be all about HHH Punk and the position of COO.
> 
> To you idiots wanting HHH to turn heel so CM Punk can shine, fuck you, *nobody is gonna side against* HHH after what CM Punk said about his wife if anything *CM Punk is lucky the fans don't boo him* -- but that speaks to CM Punk's ability to be a tweener and that's a real credit to him.
> 
> ...


Good post .


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

GillbergReturns said:


> Edge might be an 1 or 2 inches taller and has a lean muscle toned body compared to Punk's untoned body, but it really isn't that big of a deal. *What actually separates Edge from Punk is looks not size. *
> 
> The point is Edge, Hardy, Michaels they weren't the body builders that Punk says controls the industry.


 I know that there's a mentality of 'the taller and bigger you are, the better', I thought that was the only thing that mattered when talking about a guy's look. But you mean look looks? Or what...



Mr.Broski said:


> How about Edge & randy orton for recent examples??


Edge? Was ripped. Orton? Is ripped. 



GillbergReturns said:


> Mysterio, Edge, Miz. None of those guys has a intimating physique. All of them won WM main events.


Yeah.


kokepepsi said:


> sigh this is stupid.
> 
> *Punk needs to bulk up.* It's not like he can't. If he his bitching and whining about body builders then he should gain some mass for fucks sake.
> 
> Oh yeah he doesn't like steroids.


Why? Why, why, why, why? This isn't even WWE top brass any more, one fan to another. Why should the Punks and Mizes and Christians of this industry bulk up. I like these guys, I don't give a crap if they look like Alex Riley or not, they entertain me. I don't understand why you think they need to change? Genuinely wondering.


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

Mr.Broski said:


> Lol No shawn micheals.
> 
> 
> 1990s bret hart ?? hahaha
> ...


This is about the guys who were the very "top" as the faces of WWE . I say Bret Hart represented WWE in the early to mid 1990s. Miz is not the "top" guy. John Cena is still the only "top" guy currently.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

Chicago Warrior said:


> The whole bodybuilder thing or that Vince prefers big guys *to represent* their company is true IMO.
> 
> Here are the guys who were the faces of WWE at some point
> 
> ...


To some extent it what the fans want too. 

Let's be honest nobody is envisioning Punk clearing the ring of 5 guys at a time like Austin use to. You have to look the part. Rhyno's spear just isn't as intimadating as Goldberg's. Colt Cabana is not a serious candidate for the Undertaker position.

Size and look matters. Wrestling is visual. You have to be able to portray what you're being portrayed as. That's why big guys get pushes. Some of them flame out, some make it, but the fact is the majority of the fans are going to see Mason Ryan as being more intimitading than let's say Tazz. Even though Tazz is much better in every other aspect.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

Nexus One said:


> Nobody cares about Stephanie McMahon..she's hated by true smark fans and the causals don't care at all. He should call Cripple H a main event David Otunga..because all of his real success didn't start to happen until the Stephanie shit kicked in. His first two title runs in 1999 were laughable failures.


fpalmfpalm

So much butthurt in one post.

Well Cripple H is the future of WWE. what are you going to do about it??


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

Chicago Warrior said:


> This is about the guys who were the very "top" as the faces of WWE . I say Bret Hart represented WWE in the early to mid 1990s. Miz is not the "top" guy. John Cena is still the only "top" guy currently.


You are telling me All of these Guys were Pushed because they look Ripped?

Seriously?? 

whatever happened to 
the Rock's charisma on the mic?
John Cena's rap skills ? 
Badass Austin ?
Technical wrestler bret hart ?? 
Ultimate Heel Triple h?? 

The right example you are looking for is Brock lesnar thats right a paul heyman guy lol.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

Triple H is the future? When did WWE become TNA?


----------



## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

didnt Daniel Bryan say the same thing about bodybuilders in his great promo against Cole. Its not nothing new at all.


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

GillbergReturns said:


> To some extent it what the fans want too.
> 
> Let's be honest nobody is envisioning Punk clearing the ring of 5 guys at a time like Austin use to. You have to look the part. Rhyno's spear just isn't as intimadating as Goldberg's. Colt Cabana is not a serious candidate for the Undertaker position.
> 
> *Size and look matters*. Wrestling is visual. You have to be able to portray what you're being portrayed as. That's why big guys get pushes. Some of them flame out, some make it, but the fact is the majority of the fans are going to see Mason Ryan as being more intimitading than let's say Tazz. Even though Tazz is much better in every other aspect.


Maybe it does but perhaps its time for a change. Sometimes speed and ability can overcome just sheer power. Doesn't it get boring that the "top" guy always has to look "big". Why can't we have guys with different athletic builds represent the company? Fact is that WWE still prefers their "top" guy to have a certain look to them which is what CM Punk was referring 2. But you cant really get much into it without completely breaking kayfabe.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

TankOfRate said:


> Triple H is the future? When did WWE become TNA?


He's set to inherit the company or at the very least is poised to play a big role in it's progression. In a backstage sense, Trips is the future.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

TankOfRate said:


> Triple H is the future? When did WWE become TNA?



umm....he is going to be the boss for real in the future. 

Why not?? 

Just one promo owning Punk has made You hate Triple h now?? 

really? really? really?


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

Chicago Warrior said:


> Maybe it does but perhaps its time for a change. Sometimes speed and ability can overcome just sheer power. Doesn't it get boring that the "top" guy always has to look "big". Why can't we have guys with different athletic builds represent the company? Fact is that WWE still prefers their "top" guy to have a certain look to them which is what CM Punk was referring 2. But you cant really get much into it without completely breaking kayfabe.


Oh my god. 

dude you are just like Punk. You are repeating the same thing.

The top guys you mentioned ripped or not were talented. they gave the fans what they want. 

The fans chose them not WWE. 


Punk can not demand WWE to make him the top guy coz its not their choice at all. 

fans have to decide that.


Anyone in the locker can say the same thing... i want to be the top guy. 
Its not wwe's decision to make, its always the fans in the end.


----------



## mblonde09 (Aug 15, 2009)

Mr.Broski said:


> May be he should have stayed in R.O.H
> 
> Why is he in WWE despite knowing the vince 's mentality??
> 
> ...


Punk did everything he could possibly do in ROH - he basically outgrew the company. Besides it was Punk's dream to get to the WWE - was it the Rock's dream to get into movies and become a Hollywood luvvie? I don't think so.


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

Mr.Broski said:


> You are telling me All of these Guys were Pushed because they look Ripped?
> 
> Seriously??
> 
> ...


Yeah the look is important to WWE, do you think they would really push them that big if they looked like average guys? WWE does care about "the look". To play the part you have to look the part. Somebody could have all the charisma in the world but if that person does not have "the right look" then that person probably won't be the very top guy.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

Chicago Warrior said:


> Yeah the look is important to WWE, do you think they would really push them that big if they looked like average guys? WWE does care about "the look". To play the part you have to look the part. Somebody could have all the charisma in the world but if that person does not have "the right look" then that person probably won't be the very top guy.


The Rock was nobody until late 1997 despite having the look you are talking about.

Its his mic skills that got him over ,just like cena.

stop making excuses.





mblonde09 said:


> Punk did everything he could possibly do in ROH - he basically outgrew the company. Besides it was Punk's dream to get to the WWE - was it the Rock's dream to get into movies and become a Hollywood luvvie? I don't think so.


Thats it. thats the reason you are saying?? 
What if the rock said he did dream to become a huge popular star one day and Movies was his ticket to Superstardom?? 

would u agree? 

admit it punk does want popularity , he does need the money.


----------



## shutupchico (Apr 24, 2007)

i'm starting to get dissapointed with the angle. it's like punk got one of his balls cut off, he seems to really want helmsleys approval now, that bugs me. all helmsley does is talk nonsense, and repeat himself over and over. then u got nash who was a disaster anytime he wasn't jackknifing punk. between this angle going south, and friggin alberto del rios in the title picture, there isn't much to tune in for. i still have hope they'll go somewhere with the punk thing.


----------



## pagi (May 2, 2004)

Despite what all you fanboys think, Punk is actually dragging HHH down in this feud. His constant repetitive whining is making one of the most entertaining superstars of all time boring.


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

Punk never said that _only_ bodybuilders got pushed, guys. Just that they get preference cos of Vince's mindset. And that's absolutely true. It's becoming less of an issue, when Punk and Christian and Miz are main eventing, but that's 9 months, compared to decades of steroid abuse. (And let's face it, a lot of that is backlash from the Benoit situation.) But it _is_ still an issue when Mason Ryan is on the roster, but Seth Rollins isn't. That makes fuck-all sense, and there's no way a guy with the "talent" of Mason Ryan would be employed if he didn't look he was carved out of heavy stone by a Greek sculptor.

The fact of the matter is that this archaic idea that "big guys draw more than little guys" is bullshit, but so is the notion that crowd reaction matters worth a damn to Vince. Punk forced Vince's hand by holding out on contract negotiations, not by getting the crowd on his side. The guy had crowds in the palm of his hand for a lot of 2009, and they just kicked him in the nuts and sent him off to Big Show Burial Inc.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> umm....he is going to be the boss for real in the future.
> 
> Why not??
> 
> ...


Why would I hate him? I enjoy his work and have done for over a decade. That doesn't mean I can't criticize said work or call out something I have a problem with. And I happen to have a problem with his and the company's hypocrisy.




Mister Hands said:


> Punk never said that _only_ bodybuilders got pushed, guys. Just that they get preference cos of Vince's mindset. And that's absolutely true. It's becoming less of an issue, when Punk and Christian and Miz are main eventing, but that's 9 months, compared to decades of steroid abuse. (And let's face it, a lot of that is backlash from the Benoit situation.) But it _is_ still an issue when Mason Ryan is on the roster, but Seth Rollins isn't. That makes fuck-all sense, and there's no way a guy with the "talent" of Mason Ryan would be employed if he didn't look he was carved out of heavy stone by a Greek sculptor.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that this archaic idea that "big guys draw more than little guys" is bullshit, but so is the notion that crowd reaction matters worth a damn to Vince. Punk forced Vince's hand by holding out on contract negotiations, not by getting the crowd on his side. The guy had crowds in the palm of his hand for a lot of 2009, and they just kicked him in the nuts and sent him off to Big Show Burial Inc.


Exactly. The fact of the matter is, when it boils down to it, they will usually ALWAYS prefer to push the less talented guy with big muscles than the extremely talented dude who is smaller in build. And that's bullshit and needs to change.


----------



## Henry Hill (Jan 6, 2011)

*Re: Triple H owned Punk*



Dice Darwin said:


> Punk is really good, but Triple H is a better mic worker. He's capable of bringing an intensity Punk can't quite match. Cena is the same way. But we can thank Punk for motivating them both. If not for Punk stepping it up, we might still be getting Cena's poopy jokes and Triple H acting like he doesn't care.


Cena's been back doing those jokes for weeks now.


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

Mr.Broski said:


> The Rock was nobody until late 1997 despite having the look you are talking about.
> 
> *Its his mic skills that got him over ,just like cena.
> 
> ...


Yeah their mic skills did get them over but I'm sure the way they "looked" helped as well. Guys with the right look IMO get more chances to show what they can do.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

pagi said:


> Despite what all you fanboys think, Punk is actually dragging HHH down in this feud. His constant repetitive whining is making one of the most entertaining superstars of all time boring.


Lol.
HHH as a Performer has nothing to prove or gain. 

HHH as the COO needs a New star in PUNK thats why he will do the right thing by putting punk over.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

bodybuilders >>> vanilla midgets, simple. you don't push a guy who looks like a homeless junkie just because he can do a few flips.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> body builders >>> vanilla midgets, simple. you don't push a guy who looks like a homeless junkie just because he can do a few flips.


This ridiculous, outdated mentality is what is killing the wrestling business, which you supposedly 'love'. I hope you realize that.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

WWE champion needs to look like a threat to his opponents. 

Thats what the point is.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rock316AE said:


> bodybuilders >>> vanilla midgets, simple. you don't push a guy who looks like a homeless junkie just because he can do a few flips.


So you're saying you'd rather see Mason Ryan vs Goldberg over Eddie vs Rey?


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

Rock316AE said:


> bodybuilders >>> vanilla midgets, simple. you don't push a guy who looks like a homeless junkie just because he can do a few flips.


So.... :hmm: Go watch some bodybuilding.


----------



## Henry Hill (Jan 6, 2011)

Shawn Michaels didn't look like he could kick anyones ass yet most people would rather see him in the main event than some jacked up monster who looks like he might be genuinely tough.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

Wasnt Eddie so ripped in 2004??


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

TankOfRate said:


> This ridiculous, outdated mentality is what is killing the wrestling business, which you supposedly 'love'. I hope you realize that.


This... so much. Too bad I must spread around rep... stupid pop up.


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

Mr.Broski said:


> Wasnt Eddie so ripped in 2004??


Probably steroids to try and fit the WWE mold.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Mr.Broski said:


> Wasnt Eddie so ripped in 2004??


Reason he came to mind was because I believe Kevin Nash called him a 'vanilla midget'.

I'm convinced you guys don't actually enjoy wrestling.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> WWE champion needs to look like a threat to his opponents.
> 
> Thats what the point is.


Oh that is such a cop-out. Eddie Guerrero was a 'vanilla midget', but his sociopathetic character was ten times more believably intimidating and threatening than Mason Ryan's "GRRR! I'M ANGRY!" faces and taunts.

A big physique =/= presence. At all. Take any smaller dude with actual presence and put him in the ring, he'll look like a threat and get over as a threat longterm. Take a large guy who only knows how to growl and flex his muscles. Put him in the ring and people will stop giving a shit after the second crappy bodyslam.

There are exceptions, like Brock Lesnar, who happen to be big AND have presence. But don't, not for one second, spout that "Smaller guys can't be threats!" crap. Whether your Brock's size or Punk's size, if you're talented and you have genuine presence, people will take you seriously.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

TankOfRate said:


> Oh that is such a cop-out. Eddie Guerrero was a 'vanilla midget', but his sociopathetic character was ten times more believably intimidating and threatening than Mason Ryan's "GRRR! I'M ANGRY!" faces and taunts.
> 
> A big physique =/= presence. At all. Take any smaller dude with actual presence and put him in the ring, he'll look like a threat and get over as a threat longterm. Take a large guy who only knows how to growl and flex his muscles. Put him in the ring and people will stop giving a shit after the second crappy bodyslam.
> 
> There are exceptions, like Brock Lesnar, who happen to be big AND have presence. But don't, not for one second, spout that "Smaller guys can't be threats!" crap. Whether your Brock's size or Punk's size, if you're talented and you have genuine presence, people will take you seriously.


Considering none of these guys have even spoken about a match they've enjoyed, I don't think they watch it for the wrestling anyway. Probably just for the big muscles.


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

TankOfRate said:


> This ridiculous, outdated mentality is what is killing the wrestling business, which you supposedly 'love'. I hope you realize that.


This.



Henry Hill said:


> Shawn Michaels didn't look like he could kick anyones ass yet most people would rather see him in the main event than some jacked up monster who looks like he might be genuinely tough.


This



TankOfRate said:


> Oh that is such a cop-out. Eddie Guerrero was a 'vanilla midget', but his sociopathetic character was ten times more believably intimidating and threatening than Mason Ryan's "GRRR! I'M ANGRY!" faces and taunts.
> 
> A big physique =/= presence. At all. Take any smaller dude with actual presence and put him in the ring, he'll look like a threat and get over as a threat longterm. Take a large guy who only knows how to growl and flex his muscles. Put him in the ring and people will stop giving a shit after the second crappy bodyslam.
> 
> There are exceptions, like Brock Lesnar, who happen to be big AND have presence. But don't, not for one second, spout that "Smaller guys can't be threats!" crap. Whether your Brock's size or Punk's size, if you're talented and you have genuine presence, people will take you seriously.


And this.


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

TankOfRate said:


> Oh that is such a cop-out. Eddie Guerrero was a 'vanilla midget', but his sociopathetic character was ten times more believably intimidating and threatening than Mason Ryan's "GRRR! I'M ANGRY!" faces and taunts.
> 
> A big physique =/= presence. At all. Take any smaller dude with actual presence and put him in the ring, he'll look like a threat and get over as a threat longterm. Take a large guy who only knows how to growl and flex his muscles. Put him in the ring and people will stop giving a shit after the second crappy bodyslam.
> 
> There are exceptions, like Brock Lesnar, who happen to be big AND have presence. But don't, not for one second, spout that "Smaller guys can't be threats!" crap. Whether your Brock's size or Punk's size, if you're talented and you have genuine presence, people will take you seriously.


That does it. I'm adding you to the very small list of people who I attempt to rep for _every single post_.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

TankOfRate said:


> Oh that is such a cop-out. Eddie Guerrero was a 'vanilla midget', but his sociopathetic character was ten times more believably intimidating and threatening than Mason Ryan's "GRRR! I'M ANGRY!" faces and taunts.
> 
> A big physique =/= presence. At all. Take any smaller dude with actual presence and put him in the ring, he'll look like a threat and get over as a threat longterm. Take a large guy who only knows how to growl and flex his muscles. Put him in the ring and people will stop giving a shit after the second crappy bodyslam.
> 
> There are exceptions, like Brock Lesnar, who happen to be big AND have presence. But don't, not for one second, spout that "Smaller guys can't be threats!" crap. Whether your Brock's size or Punk's size, if you're talented and you have genuine presence, people will take you seriously.


Or how the most threatening people on the planet are usually the average or smaller size in the real world... why there is this "bigger is badder" mentality boggles my mind.


----------



## Kid Kamikaze10 (Jul 17, 2009)

Mr.Broski said:


> Wasnt Eddie so ripped in 2004??


He was also on enough roids and other drugs to kill a man.

Same goes for he-who-will-not-be-mentioned.


If that is what it takes for smaller guys to fit the E's mold for a top draw, then I'd rather have Punk's skinny fatass. (yeah yeah, pause)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'd hardly say having big guys on the roster is ruining the industry. That's a gross overstatement if I ever saw one. The fact is, casual fans are drawn to the bigger guys because of their look and that's why the likes of Hogan etc become the faces of the company. I really don't understand why people would have a problem with that. We don't live in a bubble. Looks matter in every walk of life, not just wrestling. Take it up with society if you have a problem. At the same time however, the bigger guys shouldn't be afforded all the shots over smaller guys who actually are talented. There is a legitimate gripe here.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

Oh, and let me just point out that there is a big difference between this:










And this:










People tend to forget that.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

I don't think Punk owned Triple H, in fact I thought the ice cream bars default button he hit was a little weak considering the intensity of the promo and how it seemed to suggest Punk wasn't up to or simply didn't want to respond to Triple H's points. 

However, it is highly ironic that at least 3/4 of the names mentioned by Triple H are guys we know used steroids at one point or another in their careers to try to "get big" and attempt to fit WWE's overall mold (Bret Hart in the '80s, Shawn Michaels in the '90s and Rey Mysterio in the '00s). Along with Eddie Guerrero and a whole lot of others. 

It's funny that within WWE canon, Punk's two biggest lines, in some ways, in the promo were kind of borrowed from The Miz (in his early character-establishing promos to the fans) and Daniel Bryan (in his awesomely heated promo with Michael Cole sixteen months back on NXT1). Nevertheless, Punk's appropriation of those lines was quite artistic. 

I do think we see what happens when you build up Kevin Nash Jacknifing Punk at Summerslam/the text mystery as the thematic crux of the angle for several weeks only to swiftly subtract him from the equation; Punk and Triple H probably felt as though they had to address a whole laundry list of factoids, grievances, history stories and lots more in about ten minutes, and as a result, the promo, while generally exceptionally well-realized in style by both men, was "messy" and a little rough in its content.


----------



## jm99 (Apr 4, 2011)

Kid Kamikaze10 said:


> He was also on enough roids and other drugs to kill a man.
> 
> Same goes for he-who-will-not-be-mentioned.
> 
> ...


Yeah, no one anywhere has ever gotten "ripped" without drugs. Guys who work 9-5 jobs manage it without drugs, Punk works 2 hours on a monday night, and has access to all the best facilities. There's no reason for him not to get in better shape. If he doesn't want to put the work in, then that's fine, but he shouldn't bitch and moan about people who do put the work in getting ahead.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

TankOfRate said:


> This ridiculous, outdated mentality is what is killing the wrestling business, which you supposedly 'love'. I hope you realize that.


It's not killing anything, in the most successful periods in the history of the business the top main eventers were "bodybuilders".
What's going to kill the business is to take a vanilla midget like Punk or Bryan and let him threaten wrestlers three times his size. it looks ridiculous, like when Punk threatened Nash.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

Mister Hands said:


> That does it. I'm adding you to the very small list of people who I attempt to rep for _every single post_.


(Y)



Starbuck said:


> I'd hardly say having big guys on the roster is ruining the industry. That's a gross overstatement if I ever saw one. The fact is, casual fans are drawn to the bigger guys because of their look and that's why the likes of Hogan etc become the faces of the company. I really don't understand why people would have a problem with that. We don't live in a bubble. Looks matter in every walk of life, not just wrestling. Take it up with society if you have a problem. At the same time however, the bigger guys shouldn't be afforded all the shots over smaller guys who actually are talented. There is a legitimate gripe here.


No, no, no, I'm not saying that big guys are ruining the industry. Not at all, there are plenty big guys who are awesome. My problem lies in the mentality, from the big corporations and apparently FANS now that being big makes you better by default. That being big makes you somehow more worthy of being awarded opportunities. 





Rock316AE said:


> It's not killing anything, in the most successful periods in the history of the business the top main eventers were "bodybuilders".
> What's going to kill the business is to take a vanilla midget like Punk or Bryan and let him threaten wrestlers three times his size. it looks ridiculous, like when Punk threatened Nash.


Oh hey, here's my point being proved.


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> I'd hardly say having big guys on the roster is ruining the industry. That's a gross overstatement if I ever saw one. The fact is, casual fans are drawn to the bigger guys because of their look and that's why the likes of Hogan etc become the faces of the company. I really don't understand why people would have a problem with that. We don't live in a bubble. Looks matter in every walk of life, not just wrestling. Take it up with society if you have a problem. At the same time however, the bigger guys shouldn't be afforded all the shots over smaller guys who actually are talented. There is a legitimate gripe here.


I think the general point isn't that "Big = bad", or that "small = good", it's that favouring one over the other just on the basis of "look" is damaging the industry. Why can't we just have the talented guys get the biggest pushes? Sheamus is a bigger guy who is talented. Punk is a smaller guy who is talented. Push 'em both as far as possible.

But Mason Ryan? Can him, and no one will notice. He's just wasting valuable roster space.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

TankOfRate said:


> No, no, no, I'm not saying that big guys are ruining the industry. Not at all, there are plenty big guys who are awesome. My problem lies in the mentality, from the big corporations and apparently FANS now that being big makes you better by default. That being big makes you somehow more worthy of being awarded opportunities.


I don't see anybody saying that being big makes you better apart from trolls. It just so happens that in an industry where there is a lot of emphasis based on physical prowess, the bigger guys are going to have an edge over the smaller ones.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

The Sheamus example is perfect. Sometimes I forget that he's a big guy because of how damn good he is in the ring. He's pretty huge AND he's extremely talented. Why not hunt for guys who check BOTH of those boxes? It's like the whole hiring bikini models thing. I don't understand why they think it's a good idea to find a big guy, or a hot girl, and try to teach them how to wrestle when there are PLENTY of actual wrestlers out there who are big _and_ talented, or attractive girls _and_ talented. It's not like there's a shortage.



Starbuck said:


> I don't see anybody saying that being big makes you better apart from trolls. It just so happens that in an industry where there is a lot of emphasis based on physical prowess, the bigger guys are going to have an edge over the smaller ones.


Fair enough point I guess, but I feel like there is still far too much emphasis on the bodybuilder/Playboy model look and not enough on legitimate talent and tangible qualities. And that's a huge problem.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

jm99 said:


> Yeah, no one anywhere has ever gotten "ripped" without drugs. Guys who work 9-5 jobs manage it without drugs, Punk works 2 hours on a monday night, and has access to all the best facilities. There's no reason for him not to get in better shape. If he doesn't want to put the work in, then that's fine, but he shouldn't bitch and moan about people who do put the work in getting ahead.


Heard of house shows?

Especially in this era of Wellness, I find it positively amazing how well-conditioned the WWE roster remains despite almost constant travel. And I mean guys ranging from Sheamus to The Miz, from Wade Barrett to Dolph Ziggler. Ask most baseball players and they'll tell you, a six-month season will typically wear guys down and they'll gradually find themselves no longer in peak condition come the "dog days" of late summer. And that is having half your games played in the same venue "at home"; there's no equivalent to that for WWE talent, they're on the road all the time. They generally get two full days off a week, and in reality it's not even quite that as at least half of one of those days is committed to travel on most weeks. Then there's the oncoming Asian/European/Latin American tours where they're hitting one city a night, over the course of two weeks in many cases, with no break.

Not to sound like a total mark but, in a way I am a mark, for how WWE's guys maintain themselves, from treating their battered bodies to ensuring they don't compromise their look, especially in a time when management is legitimately randomly testing guys. Including referees, haha.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

TankOfRate said:


> The Sheamus example is perfect. Sometimes I forget that he's a big guy because of how damn good he is in the ring. He's pretty huge AND he's extremely talented. Why not hunt for guys who check BOTH of those boxes? It's like the whole hiring bikini models thing. I don't understand why they think it's a good idea to find a big guy, or a hot girl, and try to teach them how to wrestle when there are PLENTY of actual wrestlers out there who are big _and_ talented, or attractive girls _and_ talented. It's not like there's a shortage.


Trish Stratus was a fitness model and look how she turned out. There's a good example of them training somebody up who turned out to be a good investment and who got hired solely on their looks to begin with. I'm not saying it should happen all the time and logic dictates that you should be looking for those actually trained in the skill required to make it in your profession. I'd much rather have a million Seamus' on the roster than Mason Ryan's. But you never know where you're going to find the next big star. Look at Batista. Dude blew chunks until he got some solid ring time and worked with the top names. He never became a Ric Flair in the ring but he held his own and was a mega draw for the company. I'm willing to bet a lot of people wouldn't have looked at him twice because he wasn't a _wrestler_. It works both ways. 

If it were me I'd be hiring all around from everywhere, sticking these guys/gals into whatever developmental territory and not putting them anywhere near TV until they are ready. Riley, Barrett, Otunga, McGillicutty and hell, even Mason Ryan would all benefit greatly from learning how to actually work a damn match before getting called to TV and thrown in the deep end.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

it was good too see hunter finally not get owned he kinda won the war of words, punk taking em out with the mic was good though. hopefully Nash screws punk and some type of regime is formed if not this is a waste of a month


----------



## jm99 (Apr 4, 2011)

DesolationRow said:


> Heard of house shows?
> 
> Especially in this era of Wellness, I find it positively amazing how well-conditioned the WWE roster remains despite almost constant travel. And I mean guys ranging from Sheamus to The Miz, from Wade Barrett to Dolph Ziggler. Ask most baseball players and they'll tell you, a six-month season will typically wear guys down and they'll gradually find themselves no longer in peak condition come the "dog days" of late summer. And that is having half your games played in the same venue "at home"; there's no equivalent to that for WWE talent, they're on the road all the time. They generally get two full days off a week, and in reality it's not even quite that as at least half of one of those days is committed to travel on most weeks. Then there's the oncoming Asian/European/Latin American tours where they're hitting one city a night, over the course of two weeks in many cases, with no break.
> 
> Not to sound like a total mark but, in a way I am a mark, for how WWE's guys maintain themselves, from treating their battered bodies to ensuring they don't compromise their look, especially in a time when management is legitimately randomly testing guys. Including referees, haha.


Still, even with house shows, they have much more free time than any average guy. They have much more money as well meaning they can always get the best facilities. I'm sure WWE also has persoanl trainers to help any of the guys should they need it. There really is no excuse for them not to be in shape, and it comes down to work ethic. You can look at a guy like Cena, and you can see his work ethic. Not just in the gym, but this work ethic applies to everything he does, he does all the make-a-wish stuff (far more than anyone else), he does all the promotional stuff for WWE. Every other guy in the roster manages to stay in shape despite having the same schedule as Punk (and probably significanly less money), there is no reason for him to be one of the only guys on the roster who doesn't put the work in.


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> Trish Stratus was a fitness model and look how she turned out. There's a good example of them training somebody up who turned out to be a good investment and who got hired solely on their looks to begin with. I'm not saying it should happen all the time and logic dictates that you should be looking for those actually trained in the skill required to make it in your profession. I'd much rather have a million Seamus' on the roster than Mason Ryan's. But you never know where you're going to find the next big star. Look at Batista. Dude blew chunks until he got some solid ring time and worked with the top names. He never became a Ric Flair in the ring but he held his own and was a mega draw for the company. I'm willing to bet a lot of people wouldn't have looked at him twice because he wasn't a _wrestler_. It works both ways.
> 
> If it were me I'd be hiring all around from everywhere, sticking these guys/gals into whatever developmental territory and not putting them anywhere near TV until they are ready. Riley, Barrett, Otunga, McGillicutty and hell, even Mason Ryan would all benefit greatly from learning how to actually work a damn match before getting called to TV and thrown in the deep end.


Yeah, a lot of the blame for the glut of terrible workers, big and small, lies with FCW. It's such an incomprehensibly huge step down from the rigors of the territories where WWF used to find their big men for Hogan to crush. (Um... Zeus excepted.) In a way, that'd be a better point for Punk to make: instead of focusing on how he's been held down, tackle WWE's stranglehold on the industry. How they drove competition out of existence, and now raid places like Ring of Honor with no obvious intention of using the talent properly. Probably too hard to stay even remotely within kayfabe there, though.




jm99 said:


> Still, even with house shows, they have much more free time than any average guy. They have much more money as well meaning they can always get the best facilities. I'm sure WWE also has persoanl trainers to help any of the guys should they need it. There really is no excuse for them not to be in shape, and it comes down to work ethic. You can look at a guy like Cena, and you can see his work ethic. Not just in the gym, but this work ethic applies to everything he does, he does all the make-a-wish stuff (far more than anyone else), he does all the promotional stuff for WWE. Every other guy in the roster manages to stay in shape despite having the same schedule as Punk (and probably significanly less money), there is no reason for him to be one of the only guys on the roster who doesn't put the work in.


If you follow Punk on twitter, it becomes clear that he's a pretty big fitness freak. He's just not as ripped as some other guys.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Trish Stratus was a fitness model and look how she turned out. There's a good example of them training somebody up who turned out to be a good investment and who got hired solely on their looks to begin with. I'm not saying it should happen all the time and logic dictates that you should be looking for those actually trained in the skill required to make it in your profession. I'd much rather have a million Seamus' on the roster than Mason Ryan's. But you never know where you're going to find the next big star. Look at Batista. Dude blew chunks until he got some solid ring time and worked with the top names. He never became a Ric Flair in the ring but he held his own and was a mega draw for the company. I'm willing to bet a lot of people wouldn't have looked at him twice because he wasn't a _wrestler_. It works both ways.
> 
> If it were me I'd be hiring all around from everywhere, sticking these guys/gals into whatever developmental territory and not putting them anywhere near TV until they are ready. Riley, Barrett, Otunga, McGillicutty and hell, even Mason Ryan would all benefit greatly from learning how to actually work a damn match before getting called to TV and thrown in the deep end.


At the same time, it has to work both ways. Trish had a passion for wrestling and thrived to be the best, and hey, she achieved that. And at the same time, she was charismatic and had great presence, like Batista and a few others who came from nothing. If they can find people who have those two things as well as potential (and athletic ability of course), then hey, great, I'd love to have them. 

But what I don't understand is why the percentage of those types being given contracts/deal is generally higher than the percentage of wrestlers being hired. If you find somebody who has *it* and who can easily be molded, go for it, but why hire inexperienced wrestler after inexperienced wrestler and just toss 'em in there and hope for the best? Why not give the smaller guys, less Playboy-like girls with wrestling experience a chance too? They're _there_ and great at what they do already, so why choose somebody who needs to spend at least three years in developmental to learn how to work over them? I just don't get it.

This whole debate is huge and never-ending, but my stance is that nobody should ever be picked over another based solely on size. If they have other things to offer, I understand, but why throw them on the roster with nothing other but a large physique to offer?


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> It's not killing anything, in the most successful periods in the history of the business the top main eventers were "bodybuilders".
> What's going to kill the business is to take a vanilla midget like *Punk or Bryan* and let him threaten wrestlers three times his size. it looks ridiculous, like when Punk threatened Nash.


you cant say they are not talented why do you hate talent why are you trying to buried them? 
i will rather watch an extreme match than watching some fat guy against some steroid wrestler..

jeff hardy is the same size as him but punk is better in the mic and little bit in the ring, but they are both great
in what they do in the ring and i will do anything to see this feud, better than seeing an overrated match like 
triple h against undertaker..

the wrestlers who have the size of punk are great they can do more moves than any bodybuilder..

extreme matches> overrated matches

jericho - benoit - RVD - Edie Guerrero - HBK........

they are legends and they are fine the way they look.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Was tempted to bring up the Batista example that *Starbuck* beat me to above. WWE is a mainstream business and though it's great to see it change so much, so quickly, from the pushes of The Miz, CM Punk and Daniel Bryan to other, more quasi-incorporeal facets, there will always be a market for a guy made of muscle who looks like he was drawn in a comic book somewhere like Dave Batista. In his case, he didn't simply become a top name, he became the clear-cut #2 draw of WWE for half a decade. Which is probably the reason why Vince McMahon sees Skip Sheffield as a potential #2 guy, even if it makes a lot of us wince or groan.

Frankly, I do think Sheffield at least showed potential in terms of presence and even, dare I say, workrate, considering what kind of power-based wrestler he's obviously supposed to be based on body type. #2 guy? Well, Batistas don't grow on trees and Vince is probably letting his lifelong infatuation with muscles blur his vision a bit, but I could see him becoming figuratively big as well as literally one day. I'm for giving people--casuals and smart marks alike--what they want, and if the casuals can learn to eat spinach in Daniel Bryan, I'll take the occasional brownie in Skip Sheffield, at least if he's any good at anything at all while drawing the company money, which is important as a wrestling fan to consider, since even if/when you hate the top drawing muscle men like Hogan or Batista, you'll at least be enjoying the Rick Rudes and CM Punks in the midcard beneath them, afforded their spots in terms of placement by the money drawn by the big headliners. (It's why a lot of wrestlers who personally loathed Hogan hoped he'd be in the main event for the show they were wrestling at.)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

TankOfRate said:


> At the same time, it has to work both ways. Trish had a passion for wrestling and thrived to be the best, and hey, she achieved that. And at the same time, she was charismatic and had great presence, like Batista and a few others who came from nothing. If they can find people who have those two things as well as potential (and athletic ability of course), then hey, great, I'd love to have them.
> 
> *But what I don't understand is why the percentage of those types being given contracts/deal is generally higher than the percentage of wrestlers being hired. If you find somebody who has *it* and who can easily be molded, go for it, but why hire inexperienced wrestler after inexperienced wrestler and just toss 'em in there and hope for the best? Why not give the smaller guys, less Playboy-like girls with wrestling experience a chance too? They're there and great at what they do already, so why choose somebody who needs to spend at least three years in developmental to learn how to work over them? I just don't get it.*
> 
> This whole debate is huge and never-ending, but my stance is that nobody should ever be picked over another based solely on size. If they have other things to offer, I understand, but why throw them on the roster with nothing other but a large physique to offer?


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

Batista IS an excellent example of a seemingly hopeless bodybuilder becoming a surprise megastar. But if all his successes lead the WWE to just hire big men, throw 'em on TV and hope for the best, then man, I hate that cunt.


----------



## p862011 (Jan 6, 2011)

*1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

HHH said punk had many opportunities like main eventing ppvs winning mitb briefcases and being a 4 time wwe champ

but punk was booked terrible in all his reigns none of his title reigns lasted more than 1 month and a half and punk cant coutner back to hhh on how badly he was booked without going too far with kayfabe and exposing the business


hhh smart man lol


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

Starbuck said:


>


 

The grudge I have with this man is borderline irrational.


----------



## CP Munk (Aug 13, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

wut


----------



## peowulf (Nov 26, 2006)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

Triple H:"You had many opportunities Punk but you blew them."

Punk:"But, you booked me badly. Pipebomb!"


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



peowulf said:


> Triple H:"You had many opportunities Punk but you blew them."
> 
> Punk:"But, you booked me badly. Pipebomb!"


:lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

TankOfRate said:


> The grudge I have with this man is borderline irrational.


Mine carries to the point where I can't even root for the Rams because his nephew is on there.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

And the problem here is that it sounds like Punk was awarded world titles when kayfabe wise he won them. Sounded strange to me also.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Mister Hands said:


> Batista IS an excellent example of a seemingly hopeless bodybuilder becoming a surprise megastar. But if all his successes lead the WWE to just hire big men, throw 'em on TV and hope for the best, then man, I hate that cunt.


You have to strike a balance between the 2 imo. A lot of indy type fans or whatever seem to hate the fact that bigger guys get shots while most casuals couldn't give a fuck about the smaller guys. Appeasement is they key word here lol. Like *DesoRow* just said, without the big ripped dude who most of the people are paying to see, the smaller guys get no exposure because nobody is watching. You need all types on the roster otherwise it would become bland. I don't want a show full of musclebound types, I can just go watch some bodybuilding contest for that. I also don't want a show full of small pithy looking guys either, I can just go watch ROH for that p). Variation is needed. It's completely fair to say that bigger doesn't equal better but smaller doesn't necessarily equal better either. 

Fact is, you can be the most muscled adonis or the most proficient ring worker on the roster but if you don't have that x-factor, if you can't connect with the fans through your charisma you aren't going anywhere. Size is important, no doubt. As is ring work. But the most important piece of the puzzle for any successful superstar is charisma. Just ask Hulk Hogan, just ask The Rock, just ask John Cena.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

blame the undertaker who got punk buried.

But punk still doesnt make sense... he is at the top now but why is he still complaining?? 

and btw HHH wasnt entirely wrong , Punk against jeff hardy received the best booking any superstar can get.

one of my favourite feuds tbh.


----------



## Redwood (Jun 16, 2010)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

I dunno...grape?


----------



## p862011 (Jan 6, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Mr.Broski said:


> blame the undertaker who got punk buried.
> 
> But punk still doesnt make sense... he is at the top now but why is he still complaining??
> 
> ...


probably because jeff was leaving wwe


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

jm99 said:


> Still, even with house shows, they have much more free time than any average guy. They have much more money as well meaning they can always get the best facilities. I'm sure WWE also has persoanl trainers to help any of the guys should they need it. There really is no excuse for them not to be in shape, and it comes down to work ethic. You can look at a guy like Cena, and you can see his work ethic. Not just in the gym, but this work ethic applies to everything he does, he does all the make-a-wish stuff (far more than anyone else), he does all the promotional stuff for WWE. Every other guy in the roster manages to stay in shape despite having the same schedule as Punk (and probably significanly less money), there is no reason for him to be one of the only guys on the roster who doesn't put the work in.


I agree with you that Cena is clearly a remarkably driven individual, based on everything he does, while remaining in fantastic physical condition, but quite honestly, bodies behave differently based on genetics, and obviously in the case of Punk throughout his career, one's willingness or unwillingness to use certain chemicals to assist you. Cena, Batista, Orton... Guys who are/were amazingly dedicated to making their bodies real specimens. Triple H goes through his problems as a youth in particular in attaining muscle mass, as a lanky, tall, skinny guy. Based on Miz's body type and background, it's incredible how "ripped" he's made himself, even if he will never be the most physically imposing guy on the roster. Or how Sheamus went from being the fat kid everyone picked on to what he's been from IWW to WWE. 

Punk has his own body with its own particularities. He works out quite a bit, actually, and does a lot of stretching. Punk could never have worked a nearly 35-minute match with Cena at Money in the Bank if he weren't in shape; he's clearly in shape and in very good condition. It should also be remembered that Punk has in part always assembled an arsenal in the ring that is believable for a man of his size, against much larger opponents, dating back to before his rivalry with Samoa Joe in ROH. From Muay Thai kicking to high-flying maneuvers like a flying clothesline from the ring apron or rana to submission-based grappling. He's not the guy who's going to powerbomb you or throw you around the ring, he's the guy who's going to surprise you from a low center of gravity, disorient you with his flashier high-risk portion of his moveset and then move in for the kill, whether it be a submission or a knockout blow. 

I've met Punk a few times, stood next to him. I'm probably an inch and a half taller, and I happen to have a large, husky, barrel-chested, broad-shouldered body, so I'm physically a bigger guy than him... At the same time, though, compared to most guys on the street, Punk is built like a tank. As Punk's matches with Cena demonstrate, he's a tremendous foil for the bigger, more muscular powerhouses, as his combination of agility, swiftness, Muay Thai offense and submission wrestling helps to create a compelling story. Though to be fair, Punk and Cena have had a special kind of chemistry with each other since their first match.


----------



## p862011 (Jan 6, 2011)

the perfect example of punk's body build claim

is bobby lashley - no mic skills,no charisma,cant talk for shit,was not a good wrestler

but got pushed big


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

Yes but all the great booking against Hardy was killed by Taker within 1 month. Just because Punk spoke his mind about the stupid dress code.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

TankOfRate said:


> Oh that is such a cop-out. Eddie Guerrero was a 'vanilla midget', but his sociopathetic character was ten times more believably intimidating and threatening than Mason Ryan's "GRRR! I'M ANGRY!" faces and taunts.
> 
> A big physique =/= presence. At all. Take any smaller dude with actual presence and put him in the ring, he'll look like a threat and get over as a threat longterm. Take a large guy who only knows how to growl and flex his muscles. Put him in the ring and people will stop giving a shit after the second crappy bodyslam.
> 
> There are exceptions, like Brock Lesnar, who happen to be big AND have presence. But don't, not for one second, spout that "Smaller guys can't be threats!" crap. Whether your Brock's size or Punk's size, if you're talented and you have genuine presence, people will take you seriously.


lol everyone praising this post.

did anyone think of the biggest flaw in this ?? 


*SMARK FANS =/= CASUALS *

You and me understand Punk,eddie are talented more than any muscular guy.
You and Me dont need big men as champions.
You and me Know jericho kicked Goldberg's ASS in a real fight.


BUT THE CASUALS dont understand this.


To them brock is the most powerful guy. 

CM punk threatening to kick goldberg's ass on live TV is totally laughable.

Think about it before you post something like this.


----------



## Rocky Mark (Mar 27, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

you mean going over the most over face in wwe , jeff hardy , and actually kicking him out of the company (keyfabe) , thus giving him heat ?

or going over undertaker in one of the most heelish ways ever , to even get him more heat ? 

yah sure he was booked bad fpalm


----------



## Tronnik (Feb 4, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



peowulf said:


> Triple H:"You had many opportunities Punk but you blew them."
> 
> Punk:"But, you booked me badly. Pipebomb!"


lmao. every punk impersonation should now end with pipebomb.


----------



## p862011 (Jan 6, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Rocky Mark said:


> you mean going over the most over face in wwe , jeff hardy , and actually kicking him out of the company (keyfabe) , thus giving him heat ?
> 
> or going over undertaker in one of the most heelish ways ever , to even get him more heat ?
> 
> yah sure he was booked bad fpalm


jeff hardy was the only feud he won before cena and that was because jeff quit wwe punk went on to loose 4 feuds in a row after hardy feud - taker,rey,show,randy

yeah booked so well

rey shaved his head
big show knocked him out on ppv:no:


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

"~The Casuals~"

Oh hey, we've got a new cop-out!

This isn't about smarks or casuals. The point is, if a guy Eddie's size has charisma and presence and is put in the position where he's required to play quite a threatening character- like sociopath Eddie- that character will get over because he plays it freakin' amazingly. 

And then you have the Mason Ryans for example, who are big, but lack presence. He didn't get over as threat. People didn't respond or react to him. Why? Because it's not believable. Times have changed, the "casuals" aren't morons. You can huff and puff and blow your chest out and flex your muscles all you want, but that won't make you intimidating. You just look like a big guy trying too hard to be a ~big scurrrry rassler~ and people will pick up on that, regardless of whether they're smarks or casuals.



Brye said:


> Mine carries to the point where I can't even root for the Rams because his nephew is on there.


:lmao


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> lol everyone praising this post.
> 
> did anyone think of the biggest flaw in this ??
> 
> ...


hahahaaha coming from a Zack Ryder fan, your hero cant wrestle for shit.. 
kurt angle faced Brock lesner and he was way smaller than him :no:..


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Rocky Mark said:


> you mean going over the most over face in wwe , jeff hardy , and actually kicking him out of the company (keyfabe) , thus giving him heat ?
> 
> or going over undertaker in one of the most heelish ways ever , to even get him more heat ?
> 
> yah sure he was booked bad fpalm


Yeah:


> winning the money in the bank twice
> 
> winning the world heavyweight title twice
> 
> ...


booked bad:lmao
so what about Kofi, Carlito, MVP etc...?
like i said, maybe "held back/booked bad" is the new, "i'm not good enough to be a top main eventer and looks like a homeless junkie", nice.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

Punk was booked inconsistently. He went from headlining with The Undertaker to a dark match with R Truth. The WWE do that too much and it doesn't help anybody. How is someone going to get over long-term if you keep tossing them up and down the card? Two time MiTB winner, multi-time World Heavyweight Champion to random, pointless, uninteresting midcard feuds that don't help or elevate anyone. That was the problem with how they booked him. And how they book most of their talent. Why do you think there are pretty much no main-eventers anymore? And no, Attitude Era fanboys, the answer to that is NOT "OMG because they're all bland and talentless, BRING BACK THE ATTITUDE ERA!!!".


----------



## jm99 (Apr 4, 2011)

DesolationRow said:


> I agree with you that Cena is clearly a remarkably driven individual, based on everything he does, while remaining in fantastic physical condition, but quite honestly, bodies behave differently based on genetics, and obviously in the case of Punk throughout his career, one's willingness or unwillingness to use certain chemicals to assist you. Cena, Batista, Orton... Guys who are/were amazingly dedicated to making their bodies real specimens. Triple H goes through his problems as a youth in particular in attaining muscle mass, as a lanky, tall, skinny guy. Based on Miz's body type and background, it's incredible how "ripped" he's made himself, even if he will never be the most physically imposing guy on the roster. Or how Sheamus went from being the fat kid everyone picked on to what he's been from IWW to WWE.
> 
> Punk has his own body with its own particularities. He works out quite a bit, actually, and does a lot of stretching. Punk could never have worked a nearly 35-minute match with Cena at Money in the Bank if he weren't in shape; he's clearly in shape and in very good condition. It should also be remembered that Punk has in part always assembled an arsenal in the ring that is believable for a man of his size, against much larger opponents, dating back to before his rivalry with Samoa Joe in ROH. From Muay Thai kicking to high-flying maneuvers like a flying clothesline from the ring apron or rana to submission-based grappling. He's not the guy who's going to powerbomb you or throw you around the ring, he's the guy who's going to surprise you from a low center of gravity, disorient you with his flashier high-risk portion of his moveset and then move in for the kill, whether it be a submission or a knockout blow.
> 
> I've met Punk a few times, stood next to him. I'm probably an inch and a half taller, and I happen to have a large, husky, barrel-chested, broad-shouldered body, so I'm physically a bigger guy than him... At the same time, though, compared to most guys on the street, Punk is built like a tank. As Punk's matches with Cena demonstrate, he's a tremendous foil for the bigger, more muscular powerhouses, as his combination of agility, swiftness, Muay Thai offense and submission wrestling helps to create a compelling story. Though to be fair, Punk and Cena have had a special kind of chemistry with each other since their first match.


I know he's in shape in terms of fitness, as you referred to in the Mitb match, and he is probably fitter than guys like Mason Ryan etc. But you can still see the problems of his lack of weights work. Its not just an aesthetic thing, so that he looks like he can hurt someone. You can look at when he botched the GTS on Kane, its a lack of physical strength. Obviously not compared to most people who wouldn't be able to even lift Kane, but for a wrestler it is a lack of physical strength.

And obviosuly as you say, Punk is huge compared to most people you'd see on the street, but thats not how we see him. We see him on TV, alongside a hundred other guys who are bigger than him, and thats how he will appear to the majority of people. 

There obviously isn't anything wrong with what Punk does, he perhaps gears his training more towards cardio than strength training, but he has to accept that with this, it will be a disadvantage. Its not about Vince pushing more bodybuilders (although in some cases guys are pushed just for being big, although thats often big in terms of height rather than mass), but Punk's in an industry where proportionally more people are built like tanks, so it seems obvious that proportionally more of them will also be in the main event, even though many seem to be complaining about this.


----------



## p862011 (Jan 6, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

punk has not been held back as a superstar so you can name all his title wins all you want he was held back as a main event player and top guy

it was the reason punk was leaving in the 1st place he wants to be a top guy and not just another guy


----------



## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Mr.Broski said:


> blame the undertaker who got punk buried.
> 
> But punk still doesnt make sense... he is at the top now but why is he still complaining??
> 
> ...


he says he is the voice of the voiceless and wants change. Thats why he is still complaining. If he was on top and just stopped wouldnt that just make him look selfish.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

WWE Posts Article about HHH/PUNK PROMO ON RAW


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

p862011 said:


> the perfect example of punk's body build claim
> 
> is bobby lashley - no mic skills,no charisma,cant talk for shit,was not a good wrestler
> 
> but got pushed big


bobby was the worst
Talk about zero charisma, nothing but muscle

The black brock lesner sucked.


----------



## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Rock316AE said:


> Yeah:
> 
> 
> booked bad:lmao
> ...


out of those 3 MVP is the only guy that could really get huge cuz he had everything. And yeah losing ppv after ppv is being booked bad, losing every match to Orton in their feud no matter what advantage is booked bad, being buried destroyed by Taker is being booked bad, If Punk was booked like Cena or Orton he would be the face of the wwe just cuz he is an all around talent. Orton is very good in the ring and Cena is very charasmatic. Punk is has both.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

Punk Wasnt held back. he was given the opportunity but he didnt get over.

Daniel Bryan or Wade barret are the ones that should be complaining not punk.

lol punk fanboys


----------



## jm99 (Apr 4, 2011)

p862011 said:


> the perfect example of punk's body build claim
> 
> is bobby lashley - no mic skills,no charisma,cant talk for shit,was not a good wrestler
> 
> but got pushed big


He won 0 world titles (unless you count ECW as world titles). He was there for four years. Punk has had 4 world titles in 6 years. Lashley was hardly pushed that big, he was relegated to being the champion of the third brand.

Also Lashley is in no way what Punk meant by bodybuilders, Lashley trained to be an olympic wrestler, he's also gone into MMA. Punk was referring to guys like Riley who were picked for being football players.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

kokepepsi said:


> bobby was the worst
> Talk about zero charisma, nothing but muscle
> 
> The black brock lesner sucked.


Black Brock lesnar lol.

and btw both Bobby Lashey & Brock can kick punk's ass in a real fight so why are we talking about these guys as examples here?


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Mr.Broski said:


> Punk Wasnt held back. *he was given the opportunity but he didnt get over*.
> 
> Daniel Bryan or Wade barret are the ones that should be complaining not punk.
> 
> lol punk fanboys


This.
2 MITB, WHC, feuds with top stars, give me a break.
He should stop blaming others for his failures.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

maybe I am inferring to much form the bodybuilding fetish statement.
But the issue is not that johnny ace and vince go to body building competitions to pick talent rather they hire people with the body builder look and then proceed to give them unwarranted spots on television when they are green as shit with no charisma.


----------



## CP Munk (Aug 13, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> Black Brock lesnar lol.
> 
> and btw both Bobby Lashey & Brock can kick punk's ass in a real fight so why are we talking about these guys as examples here?


Just muscles. Thats what they were. Brock was better but still terrible. This isnt about Punk irl this is about WWE and Muscle man. Not Pro wrestlers.


----------



## p862011 (Jan 6, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Mr.Broski said:


> Punk Wasnt held back. he was given the opportunity but he didnt get over.
> 
> Daniel Bryan or Wade barret are the ones that should be complaining not punk.
> 
> lol punk fanboys


how did'nt he get over lol

punk has been over since he debuted

got a bigger pop than dx and hardyz at ss 06

was the most over and hated heel with SES - he got punched by fans at house shows is how good he was doing his job

he got more heel heat than jericho at the time


----------



## jm99 (Apr 4, 2011)

kokepepsi said:


> maybe I am inferring to much form the bodybuilding fetish statement.
> But the issue is not that johnny ace and vince go to body building competitions to pick talent rather they hire people with the body builder look and then proceed to give them unwarranted spots on television when they are green as shit with no charisma.


Maybe they do. But Lashley isn't an example of it. He trained to be an olympic wrestler. Regardless of how you feel he adapted to pro wrestling, he did have an actual wrestling background. Angle got hired based on that (granted he was a much better olympic wrestler than Lashley) and its not unfeasible that Lashley did as well. I'm sure they were happy that he had a great buld as well, but in his case it wasn't the only reason.


----------



## CP Munk (Aug 13, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Rock316AE said:


> This.
> 2 MITB, WHC, feuds with top stars, give me a break.
> He should stop blaming others for his failures.


Oh both of you shut the fuck up. Ignorant douchebag punk haters gonna hate.


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

Mr.Broski said:


> lol everyone praising this post.
> 
> did anyone think of the biggest flaw in this ??
> 
> ...


Casuals are _told_ who is and isn't a threat. Will some immediately think the biggest guy is the most threatening? Sure. Will their minds be changed if WWE don't book the biggest guy as the most threatening? YES.

That's the point, isn't it? They're "casual" fans. They're not thinking too hard about any of this, they're just watching some wrestling. A champion is a champion is a champion, whether 280 and roided up, or 210 and skinnyfat.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Mr.Broski said:


> Punk Wasnt held back. *he was given the opportunity but he didnt get over.*
> 
> Daniel Bryan or Wade barret are the ones that should be complaining not punk.
> 
> lol punk fanboys


what kind of opportunity ha he lost to randy orton many times i dont remember him wining he got the titles but look how it ends in like 3 weeks how is he over.. he have been humiliated against rey mysterio he shaved his head after that he keeps loosing in every PPV..
he did not achieve anything in 2010..


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



p862011 said:


> how did'nt he get over lol
> 
> punk has been over since he debuted
> 
> ...


Survivor series o6 was in Philadelphia. Its a no surprise Cm punk was cheered for a moment there. 

As for SES , no it was cool until jeff was there to feud with on SD.

Once he left , SES dragged and dragged on like a motherf*cker.


----------



## Evolution (Sep 23, 2005)

Can I just say that during the promo when Punk said "This isn't CM Punk talking to Triple H, It's Phil Brookes talking to Paul Levesque" I started marking the fuck out.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

he has gotten some poorly booked crap before, the Jeff storyline is excluded that was all time great stuff. that's when i knew punk was on of the best talents ever


----------



## p862011 (Jan 6, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

exactly how did he blow his opportunities

first time he was wwe champ orton mugged him in the back and thus not letting him defend his title yeah what a way to go out in 1st title reign which lasted a month and a half

rey shaving his head - did punk ever beat rey i know rey beat him at mania and over the limit

big show ko'd him on ppv

randy beat him in every match including mania


----------



## metr0man (Mar 17, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

HHH does seem to conveniently overlook (in public appearance interviews as well) the role of "Creative" in so many fumbled angles and pushes, doesn't he? Then again his wife has been in charge of Creative since about 2001. 

I would go so far as to say, maybe 80% of the failed pushes in the past 10 years have been the fault of the writers/bookers. It's kind of shocking how they seem to forget the basic psychology of wrestling angles sometimes. 

What's weird is they every once in a while get it right, so clearly SOMEBODY in the back knows. HHH clearly knows because his character has been booked well and strong ever since his 1999 heel Main event push where he WASN'T OVER in the Summer of 1999 and they pushed him, and pushed him, and pushed him, rambling interview after rambling interview, until he FINALLY got main event over with the Stephanie angle.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

Angle was too green in the Ring until 1999.


----------



## Onyx (Apr 12, 2011)

*CM Punk: For years now you've both had this weird body builder fetish/fantasy what a main event caliber superstar needs to look like.

Triple H: Shawn Micheals, Foley, Bret Hart and Mysterio are examples. Triple H says Punk is using it as an excuse.*

How is it an excuse? CM Punk is speaking in general. WWE would prioritise 'body builders' over non body builders.




*Triple H: You need to get over with them.*

He already is over with the crowd. Can't he hear the CM Punk chants every week? In fact he use to get sporadic chants as a heel last year.



*Triple H: MITB, multiple World Championships, those sound like a lot of opportunities to me Punk.
*
Bad booking. Why did he lose to Undertaker at HIAC 2009 then face R-Truth in a dark match? Why didn't he win another World title until July 2011?


*Triple H: John Cena is a guy who came from nothing, and made himself into the biggest star in this industry.
*
And what if CM Punk got countless opportunities that Cena got? What if Punk main evented 9/10 PPV's each year? What if CM Punk beat guys like Shawn Micheals, made Triple H tap out, beat Orton clean, beat all the other countless superstars?


*Triple H: Today, their chanting your name, last year, not so much. 
*
He was a heel, plus he got sporadic chants.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

Mister Hands said:


> Casuals are _told_ who is and isn't a threat. Will some immediately think the biggest guy is the most threatening? Sure. *Will their minds be changed if WWE don't book the biggest guy as the most threatening? YES.*
> 
> That's the point, isn't it? They're "casual" fans. They're not thinking too hard about any of this, they're just watching some wrestling. A champion is a champion is a champion, whether 280 and roided up, or 210 and skinnyfat.


You dont know that for sure. 

"yes" is an assumption.

WWE cant work based on assumption , they need big guys admit it or not.

Cm punk cannot be booked like sheamus so quit making excuses.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Mr.Broski said:


> Survivor series o6 was in Philadelphia. Its a no surprise Cm punk was cheered for a moment there.
> 
> As for SES , no it was cool until jeff was there to feud with on SD.
> 
> Once he left , SES dragged and dragged on like a motherf*cker.


this guy is trying to ignore my post he thinks hes right but he have no clue..

Punk is over yeah right 
he did not achieve anything in 2010 ..
he keeps loosing in PPV against orton, i dont even remember if beats him ever 
and punk want a revenge in the storyline but the writers didnt give a fuck 
orton, orton and orton yeah punk is over give me a break..


----------



## THNC (Oct 3, 2008)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

Plenty of guys would love to have the opportunity to work PPV matches with guys like
Taker and Mysterio win or loss.

Punk is a whiny prick.Period.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

> Triple H: MITB, multiple World Championships, those sound like a lot of opportunities to me Punk.
> 
> Bad booking. Why did he lose to Undertaker at HIAC 2009 then face R-Truth in a dark match? Why didn't he win another World title until July 2011?


That's the problem and why Trips one upped punk
Punk can't just say he was booked bad because that means the matches are predetermined which I hope to fucking god they don't go down that path.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

lol punk is right about vince preferring the bigger guys look at the history off the wwe title. that said hunter definitely won last night, but hes gotten owned for close too two months so still big advantage punk


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



THNC said:


> Plenty of guys would love to have the opportunity to work PPV matches with guys like
> Taker and Mysterio win or loss.
> 
> Punk is a whiny prick.Period.


He doesn't want to be booked as filler and a jobber and views himself as a legitimate star... that is what it takes. HHH, HBK, and many were just like that. They got tired of being booked poorly and spoke up. Were they just simply whiny then too?


----------



## TheRock316 (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

I dont like when HHH said we listen to the audience.

How long are we hearing Cena Sucks?


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

skyman101 said:


> CM Punk: For years now you've both had this weird body builder fetish/fantasy what a main event caliber superstar needs to look like.
> 
> Triple H: Shawn Micheals, Foley, Bret Hart and Mysterio are examples. Triple H says Punk is using it as an excuse.
> 
> ...



Massive Fail. fpalmfpalm

So Punk is speaking in general & HHH is presenting him facts and thats your argument?? lol



Triple h was clearly referring to the past 6 years of his career that punk was bitching about not the *present*. 




Blame undertaker. But still Until that taker burial of Punk , he had solid booking against jeff and the SES stable.
Even in 2010 they made him the leader of Nexus. It was not a success but thats your proof WWE wasnt "holding" him down as he said they did to him.



Big fucking faceplam at that john cena reference.
You clearly dont know what you are talking about.
Would you agree if daniel bryan or wade barret came out and said "I want to make HHH tap out and beat shawn micheals and all others like Cena at wrestlemania??
You dont even know why cena was given that Push.


Getting over as a Heel. 
SES promos were fun until Jeff quit. after that they dragged and dragged on like a MF.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

kokepepsi said:


> That's the problem and why Trips one upped punk
> Punk can't just say he was booked bad because that means the matches are predetermined which I hope to fucking god they don't go down that path.


If he was gonna say bad booking on live tv... Trips could say WWE actually put him in a feud with a top star Undertaker despite the fact that Punk was no where as over as he was today in 2011.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Mr.Broski said:


> If he was gonna say bad booking on live tv... Trips could say WWE actually put him in a feud with a top star Undertaker despite the fact that Punk was no where as over as he was today in 2011.


Yeah... a squash match is really proving your point here. That was sarcasm by the way. That would be like saying the Miz and Truth were better off after facing Cena.....


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

^^ but punk was the champ and was in the biggest feud at the time with Jeff hardy so its not like they did him any favors. they fed his ass too an old broken down taker. this is coming from a die hard life long taker fan.


----------



## THNC (Oct 3, 2008)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Kabraxal said:


> *He doesn't want to be booked as filler and a jobber and views himself as a legitimate star*... that is what it takes. HHH, HBK, and many were just like that. They got tired of being booked poorly and spoke up. Were they just simply whiny then too?


The guy is definitely not a jobber and never was.

He's been running his mouth on the mic constantly since his heel turn in 2009 and made it on PPV most of the time.

His marks whine about his booking as if the guy gets booked
like JTG or McIntyre.


----------



## Onyx (Apr 12, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> Massive Fail. fpalmfpalm
> 
> So Punk is speaking in general & HHH is presenting him facts and thats your argument?? lol
> 
> ...


Triple H said that the bodybuilding thing was an 'excuse' for Punk. How is it an excuse? CM Punk is known to like pure wrestlers who aren't 'body builders'.

World Championships are all that matter in WWE. CM Punk didn't win one until July 2011 after he lost it in 2009. Would Cena stay away for 2 years?

No I wouldn't agree with Barret or Bryan as of now. But I would agree with CM Punk beating Triple H and Shawn Micheals and becoming one of the top faces of the company.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



THNC said:


> The guy is definitely not a jobber and never was.
> 
> He's been running his mouth on the mic constantly since his heel turn in 2009 and made it on PPV most of the time.
> 
> ...


Let's see... job PPVs for a year. Was buried beneath Orton. Was treated like a second rate star at every turn. Yeah sorry... you are simply wrong.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

Kabraxal said:


> Yeah... a squash match is really proving your point here. That was sarcasm by the way. That would be like saying the Miz and Truth were better off after facing Cena.....


And Miz & Truth before their feud with cena?? 

consider their position then and now. 


Cena won but he established them both just like Undertaker did for Punk.

Why is punk even saying WWE held him down when they put him in a feud with taker?? 

Win or lose thats a big fucking push. 

SES leader , nexus leader ?? 

How was he "HELD" DOWN?? i dont understand that at all.


----------



## MaryseFan (Aug 14, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

triple h was just being an ass in that promo, he wasnt trying to add anything to the promo he was trying to make punk look like he was just a whiny bitch who has been pulling shit out his ass for four months, while punk killed it


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

skyman101 said:


> Triple H said that the bodybuilding thing was an 'excuse' for Punk. How is it an excuse? CM Punk is known to like pure wrestlers who aren't 'body builders'.
> 
> *World Championships are all that matter in WWE. CM Punk didn't win one until July 2011 after he lost it in 2009*. Would Cena stay away for 2 years?
> 
> No I wouldn't agree with Barret or Bryan as of now. But I would agree with CM Punk beating Triple H and Shawn Micheals and becoming one of the top faces of the company.


You basically want Punk to Replace cena here.

cant and wont happen.

cena earned his spot like it or not. Punk in 2009 was nothing more than a mid carder so quit complaining.

Punk is getting to the top spot now. 
Once he establishes himself... he can beat anyone he want.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Mr.Broski said:


> And Miz & Truth before their feud with cena??
> 
> consider their position then and now.
> 
> ...


Let's see... after their feud Miz jobbed to Riley for a bit then floundered around til just the last few weeks. Truth jobbed to a cup of water and then floundered for a while until just the last few weeks. Yeah, being in a program with Cena really elevated those men... seriously, what the fuck were you watching this year? Cena did nothing but bury those two and didn't put them over at all.

And a squash match doesn't put the loser over... if you really think that then you have no clue about the business and have no business trying to talk about pushes and booking.


----------



## Onyx (Apr 12, 2011)

He wasn't a World champion while leading either faction.


----------



## Onyx (Apr 12, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> You basically want Punk to Replace cena here.
> 
> cant and wont happen.
> 
> ...


I don't want him to replace Cena. There isn't a rule where there can only be one guy that's allowed to be in every World title match.

In fact it would actually be better if Cena wasn't always in the main event.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

Kabraxal said:


> Let's see... after their feud Miz jobbed to Riley for a bit then floundered around til just the last few weeks. Truth jobbed to a cup of water and then floundered for a while until just the last few weeks. Yeah, being in a program with Cena really elevated those men... seriously, what the fuck were you watching this year? Cena did nothing but bury those two and didn't put them over at all.
> 
> And a squash match doesn't put the loser over... if you really think that then you have no clue about the business and have no business trying to talk about pushes and booking.


Right!...Main eventing Wrestlemania with Cena wasnt good enough for Miz. 

Truth would have been nobody right now without his feud with cena.

NOW IN 2011 EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT HOW TALENTED THESE TWO ARE, THEIR PROMOS, MATCHES EVERYTHING .....WHY DO THINK THAT IS ??? 

why is it until early 2010 no one gave a fuck about these two?? 

Stop living in denial.
Cena won but he made these guys more popular than you think.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Kabraxal said:


> Let's see... after their feud Miz jobbed to Riley for a bit then floundered around til just the last few weeks. Truth jobbed to a cup of water and then floundered for a while until just the last few weeks. Yeah, being in a program with Cena really elevated those men... seriously, what the fuck were you watching this year? * Cena did nothing but bury those two and didn't put them over at all.*
> 
> And a squash match doesn't put the loser over... if you really think that then you have no clue about the business and have no business trying to talk about pushes and booking.


really dumb statement miz is one of the faces pf the wwe and hes heel. he won the main event of mania and constantly chosen to represent the wwe on shows and all types of stuff, this has picked up largely do to the fact that he beat cena at wrestlemania.

truth was doing what as an face? hes since went heel fought cena and is one of the biggest heels in the wwe atm.


----------



## ultimatekrang (Mar 21, 2009)

i thought it was a great segment.. im hyped for the ppv now. i guesse nash was the weak link hahaha.

but i dont see how trips owned punk at all.. both of them had points that didnt entirely hold up but overall, trips mentioned needing to get over with the fans about 4 times. WHILE THE FUCKING AUDIENCE WERE CHEERING CM PUNK!! it didnt really make trips look good. and then punk mentioned he was outpopping all those main eventers back in 2006.. from that point on triple h just looked like he was full of bullshit.

but yea great promo from both, if you think trips owned you should watch again, it was pretty even until the mic shot at the end.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

I love Punk but as the BIGGEST Christian fan, he's hasn't been booked that bad compared to Christian..

But Punk does have a point. Remember, he wants change in the WWE. And it's not only for himself but for the fans and other wrestlers. 
He wants WWE to be fun and exciting again. So the arguments are meaningless.
Punk is not 'The voice of the voiceless' to get title chances or opportunities for himself. He came back because he wants change as a fan of the WWE.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> If he was gonna say bad booking on live tv... Trips could say WWE actually put him in a feud with a top star Undertaker despite the fact that Punk was no where as over as he was today in 2011.


Don't think you are getting what I mean.

Booking as in booked to lose. He can't make those references.

Triple H could come in and say what you did" but you worked with taker not my problem you couldn't beat him"

What would punk say? 
Nothing unless he breaks that last barrier and admits he had to lose because he was told to do the job.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

AS a matter of fact , Cena even got punk over in their feud leading to Money in the bank.

Imagine if there was no cena involved.

Imagine if this Promo Triple h vs Punk actually happened before money in the bank PPV?? 


do u think chicago crowd would have been a 100 % pro-punk that night if this happened?? 

you are underestimating John cena starpower & apparently the "cena hatred" too lol


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

kokepepsi said:


> Don't think you are getting what I mean.
> 
> Booking as in booked to lose. He can't make those references.
> 
> ...


If he has to break kayfabe to get over , then he is not good enough.

/argument.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Mr.Broski said:


> Right!...Main eventing Wrestlemania with Cena wasnt good enough for Miz.
> 
> Truth would have been nobody right now without his feud with cena.
> 
> ...


Miz was lost in the Rock/Cena bullshit. Don't even begin to say he was actually given a chance to shine there when he was an afterthought. And Truth was getting himself over and Cena did nothing to actually further them. The mere fact they suffered after the horrible burials by Cena and managed to come back is a testament to them and a black mark against the booking around Cena. Sorry to break it to you, but Punk is the only one that has come out of a program with Cena at or stronger than his level without having to rebuild.


----------



## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

Hbk96rRko09 said:


> really dumb statement miz is one of the faces pf the wwe and hes heel. he won the main event of mania and constantly chosen to represent the wwe on shows and all types of stuff, this has picked up largely do to the fact that he beat cena at wrestlemania.
> 
> truth was doing what as an face? hes since went heel fought cena and is one of the biggest heels in the wwe atm.


*Truth didnt get anything from Cena really. He destroyed Morrison and went on to be a better character.* Yeah he feuded with Cena but that was one match and done so i dont get how that super short feud made Truth. *Miz was helped greatly with his feud with Cena though but as usual Cena buried him in the I Quit match and where is Miz now. he is with Truth chasing the tag titles.* Could any of you ever picture Cena doing that, chasing the tag titles. How come when Cena beats someone they automatically get downgraded. How would that be putting them over, shouldnt Truth or Miz be mainevent talent then they arent even percieved that way atm. Miz represents WWE cuz he is very charasmatic and was on tv before so of course theyd have him over others. I wouldnt be surprised if they got Otunga to start doing what Cena and Miz do.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

back to bobby lashly and those who defended him because of his amateur background.



> Lashley Lashley attend Missouri Valley College, which he won three national championships between 1996-98. Between 1997-1998, Lashley was the NAIA Wrestling Champion. *Back then, he weight 177 lbs*. Lashley then took up some serious training, building up 100 lbs of muscle, now weighing between 273-279.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

because it gave him a chance to main event he was the focus of raw that entire month got amazing amounts of mic time, and was able to perfect his competitor. the was the peak of career performance wise and character wise, this would've never gotten the level of air time or attention if he wasnt fighting cena that month


----------



## TheWFEffect (Jan 4, 2010)

God this argument is stupid as Hogan put Warrior and Taker over, as Hart put Micheals and Austin over, As austin put the rock over, As the Rock put Lesnar over, as Triple H put John Cena and Batista over John Cena put the Miz over by allowing him to go over him at Wrestlemania and just as now Cena has put CM Punk over at both Money in the bank and Summerslam. As I have always said you can't be all talk with no substance Punk and Miz were all talk but until Cena put them over there was no substance.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> AS a matter of fact , Cena even got punk over in their feud leading to Money in the bank.
> 
> Imagine if there was no cena involved.
> 
> ...


ryder please you dont have a clue, what?
cena star power = superman , it sounded like that..


why would triple h be there before MITB ?
and what does that do with the Chicago fans ofcorse they will they love punk its not the same
with cena hes been hated in his home town since like forever. put punk loves chicago he had 
the flag in his pants and t shirt since like forever..


----------



## jm99 (Apr 4, 2011)

kokepepsi said:


> back to bobby lashly and those who defended him because of his amateur background.


So gaining weight means he lost his amateur background? He's also in MMA now so clearly his weight isn't holding him back either.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

just saying the dude got jacked up(holy shit 100pounds of muscle) and got a lot of t.v when he sucked.
Don't recall his amateur stuff being put over as much as his physique. 

Also have not read the full thread but is there any mention
of how the first steroid scandal is what led to bret/shawn getting pushes


----------



## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

2 gray reps from machomuta lol. usually u gotta guess if its good or bad but i could pretty much guess "you gotta be a hardcore punk mark to think that promo was good" well im not a hardcore punk mark im just a wrestling fan that enjoys being entertained and Punk has been doing that for me since ECW and for others since ROH. You gotta be a Punk hater to say HHH owned Punk or his promo wasnt good. He didnt come out and make poopy jokes. This feud almost seems like a man feud. You got Cena using all his poopy jokes and Ric Rod is tatoo etc to HHH and Punk in a serious feud. Promo between the 2 was very good the ending was great.


----------



## DaBlueGuy (Oct 9, 2010)

I am glad to see HHH back in the main even scene but this is getting redundant now. You can only own a whiny crybaby who soils his diapers like CM Punk so many times. Let this feud be done with.


----------



## jimboystar24 (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: It's official. The WWE has turned Punk into a whiny little bitch*



Big Wiggle said:


> Go watch Sponge Bob if you want basic story lines. Some of us like more complex and interesting things.


If you like more complex and interesting things, you NO BUSINESS watching WWE. WWE stories are illogical and boring. 

Spongebob (one word btw) actually makes more sense than WWE only due to the fact WWE storylines are illogical. 

Ex: Vince McMahon tried signing CM Punk to a new contract. Punk didn't sign. So McMahon tries "Montreal Screwjobbing" him. That doesn't work. Vince calls out MITB winner to win. That doesn't work. Punk leaves. Clearly McMahon tried his hardest to keep CM Punk and took all steps to stop him from leaving with the title. So..... Vince is relieved..... for doing everything he could possibly do to have the title stay in WWE? Yeah, that makes sense.


----------



## Khalid Hassan (Jan 3, 2006)

FFS, this is like politics. One guy is saying the truth but doesn't say it in a way that resonates with all the people, while the other guys is just blatantly making up shit as a foundation for accusations, and saying it louder than the other guy................. Come to think of it, that is some genius writing by the WWE. And even better actors to pull it off. Good segment.


----------



## GeorgeCostanza (Jul 2, 2011)

wrestling is dead


----------



## joshman82 (Feb 1, 2010)

Novak Djokovic said:


> With regards to Punk suddenly mentioning the ice cream bars, I was under the impression he really only said that because some dude shouted "ICE CREAM BARS!" seconds before rather than him just randomly bringing it up.


hahaha, i heard that too. you could see the grin on his face. that was totally improvised.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

joshman82 said:


> hahaha, i heard that too. you could see the grin on his face. that was totally improvised.


It was also mentioned on his twitter at some point that day.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

SoupMan Prime said:


> 2 gray reps from machomuta lol.


lol MachoMuta. Always feels the need to chime in with pointless shit.


----------



## cenarko98 (Aug 6, 2011)

*CM Sucks xposed finlly*

He is so bad. Why is he allowed to not read from the script? He can't say anything that hasn't been said in any other face-off for weeks. Triple H destroyed him last night for the first time in this feud. CM Sucks looked like Zack Ryder : A complete joke.

ty jimy 4 help


----------



## itsmadness (Sep 21, 2008)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

Haha op is 13 years old 


You mad?


----------



## Pillzmayn (Apr 7, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

lol go cry to your mom.


----------



## p862011 (Jan 6, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

lol the op just butchered the English language


----------



## mcc4374 (Oct 19, 2010)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

Wicked mate.


----------



## JEFF.JARRETT (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*



itsmadness said:


> Haha op is 13 years old
> 
> 
> You mad?


You retarded?


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

It would be easier to take part of it seriously if it didn't take forever to piece together the mangled remains of the english language... *bows his head* we will miss you dear friend.


----------



## JDman (Jun 7, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

Triple H >>>>>>>> Punk. 

Hopefully Trips kills Punk this Sunday.


----------



## Until May (Feb 5, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

fpalm


im not in lovee with punk or anything, but saying he sucks just makes no sense.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

Make your post readable before you open your little mouth.


----------



## Rezze (Jun 18, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

Trololololololol


----------



## cenarko98 (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

i sory i try to improv english jus i strugle but i hate cm sucks fans so muc esp aftr last nite


----------



## Reservoir Angel (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

Would you please stop abusing the English language?


----------



## Falkono (Dec 7, 2009)

Finally got around to watching this weeks Raw. After the past few weeks i not watched it live as it has been pretty dire to be honest.
And yet again it was another dire RAW. 
At first Punk was interesting, it was cool. But now it is plain to see he is miles out of his depth. HHH murdered him in the final segmant again. 

Everything he said was true and everything Punk said just seemed really weak. The whole thing about Punk being in the limelight for ages is 100% fact. If you go back to before this Punk angle and look at the year that has gone by Punk has been in loads of main events, many title shots (against Cena then Orton then Cena again). Been in high profile angles i.e Nexus. Was in the Rumble longer then anyone and eliminated more people then anyone else. Was in the comentary seat and so on. 
The guy has probably been on tv just as much as Cena over the past 12 months. The whole "i am the best in the world, i want change" thing just seems so wrong with Punk. I bet people like Angle piss themselves laughing when they see WWE trying to push a guy like that as the self proclaimed best in the world. 
He has had countless chances and to be fair nothing has changed. And this time around nothing has changed. If anything it has made things worse for the show. All the interesting angles were put to the back. 

I don't think you can blame WWE at all. They did what everyone wanted. They gave someone who was not Cena or Orton a huge story and a massive opportunity to be something big. Punk just couldn't run with it. He ran out of steam and now just comes across like a smarmmy little kid. For those who don't know what that means it is an English term for someone who basically whines and complains for no reason until they get something to shut them up. Those kinda people get beat up a lot here. 

I just don't get how anyone can find him funny. What he says is just like being lectured by your mum or your teacher. Then add in some primary school line i.e ass assasin and you have his humour. What is next week he says the word "fart"!!? 

RAW really needs to change. I am hoping at NOC this whole thing fucking ends as it is killing the show. The Vince Russo wanabe guy needs to get off the screen. Nash should be gone forever. We should not even be talking about xpac or Hall....that was done in TNA a few months back and it sucked, it got savaged and rightly so. The same rules have to apply to WWE. 

I actually miss the WWE before the whole Punk thing. The only person it has helped is Punk.


----------



## Aid (Jan 10, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

Ah, puberty. It's a confusing time for you mate. You may start to notice some changes going on with you. Don't be alarmed though. They are natural changes.


----------



## HHHbkDX (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

I know this is the internet, but how about you stop talking out of your fucking ass, and make your post legible to read...


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

Learn how to spell and fucking construct a sentence. I was actually going to help you out in bashing Pink, but your English gave me a headache.


----------



## CM12Punk (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

CENARKOBORNREYTRIPPLEH

Gay people can make babies now?


----------



## cenarko98 (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

pls guy u mus be able to read dat i can


----------



## BlakeGriffinFan32 (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

Your username says CenaRko.

You claim to be from "Ceenation"

The line is all the way back there. Take a number and stand behind all the other Cena/Orton marks who troll the boards with garbage like this.


----------



## Pop Tatari (May 27, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*


----------



## Fatmanp (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

To all the trolls bringing up title history in regards to booking. Jack Swagger is a former world champion and mitb winner. Does that mean he has been booked well?


----------



## Reservoir Angel (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*



cenarko98 said:


> pls guy u mus be able to read dat i can


Look, you've already been warned about that!


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Falkono said:


> Finally got around to watching this weeks Raw. After the past few weeks i not watched it live as it has been pretty dire to be honest.
> And yet again it was another dire RAW.
> At first Punk was interesting, it was cool. But now it is plain to see he is miles out of his depth. HHH murdered him in the final segmant again.
> 
> ...


Uh... he still gets chants and HHH didn't destroy him as you people try to say with no proof. And you really want the Cena/Orton show that has dominated the WWE the past few years? Really?


----------



## BlakeGriffinFan32 (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*



Premeditated said:


> Learn how to spell and fucking construct a sentence. I was actually going to help you out in bashing *Pink*, but your English gave me a headache.


Yeah I don't really care for Pink either but why not bash Lady GaGa or Ke$ha?


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*



BlakeGriffinFan32 said:


> Yeah I don't really care for Pink either but why not bash Lady GaGa or Ke$ha?


lol @ you thinking it was by accident.


----------



## JimmyWangYang (Jun 1, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*



cenarko98 said:


> he so bad why he aloud to not read from script he cnt say nething that wernt sed in every faceoff for weeks triple h desroyed him last nite for first tim this feud cm sucks loked lik zack rydr a complt joke


He is so bad. Why is he allowed to not read from the script? He can't say anything that hasn't been said in any other face-off for weeks. Triple H destroyed him last night for the first time in this feud. CM Sucks looked like Zack Ryder : A complete joke.

For the literate amongst us.
Something to that effect? 8*D


----------



## bananakin94 (Feb 8, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

Cm Punk is far from "Sucking" He just needs tweak his character, because right now, he's just coming off as a whiny, preaching bitch who can't back up his words


----------



## Sirpepsi (Jul 4, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

What is this I don't even.

Wow CM Sucks, clever. Although it got old the second time, first for me though, Cena said it


----------



## BlakeGriffinFan32 (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*



Premeditated said:


> lol @ you thinking it was by accident.



LOL at you feeling the need to bash "Pink" in every one of your posts. We get it already.


----------



## Y2-Jerk (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*



cenarko98 said:


> He is so bad. Why is he allowed to not read from the script? He can't say anything that hasn't been said in any other face-off for weeks. Triple H destroyed him last night for the first time in this feud. CM Sucks looked like *Zack Ryder : A complete joke.*
> 
> ty jimy 4 help


What?


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

Congrats op,you now have passed gingermadman as the worst troll on here.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

Falkono said:


> Finally got around to watching this weeks Raw. After the past few weeks i not watched it live as it has been pretty dire to be honest.
> And yet again it was another dire RAW.
> At first Punk was interesting, it was cool. But now it is plain to see he is miles out of his depth. HHH murdered him in the final segmant again.
> 
> ...


everything you just said is wrong, HHH murdered him part is stupid you dont have a clue..


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*



BlakeGriffinFan32 said:


> LOL at you feeling the need to bash "Pink" in every one of your posts. We get it already.


damn...man. Let a ninja be. If I want to hate on Punk, let me do it in peace.


----------



## Woo-Woo-Woo (Jul 9, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Oh my god! Really capat? Mr. Broski? Lame.


----------



## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

op is a Cena and Randy mark> worst of both worlds there lol. 

Nash supposedly didnt read from a script and u see how awful he was im sure Punk has bullets he needs to say cuz if he was really allowed to say whatever he wants he would have shot down everything HHH said monday


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Falkono said:


> Finally got around to watching this weeks Raw. After the past few weeks i not watched it live as it has been pretty dire to be honest.
> And yet again it was another dire RAW.
> At first Punk was interesting, it was cool. But now it is plain to see he is miles out of his depth. *HHH murdered him in the final segmant again. *
> 
> ...


Agree, 
bodybuilders? HBK, Foley, Hart, Rey - killed.
over with the crowd? last year, DEAD crowds in his SE promos - killed.
held back? 2 MITB, WHC, WWE etc - killed.

HHH was on fire, like you said, murdered him.


----------



## Falkono (Dec 7, 2009)

Kabraxal said:


> Uh... he still gets chants and HHH didn't destroy him as you people try to say with no proof. And you really want the Cena/Orton show that has dominated the WWE the past few years? Really?


Sorry i don't think i understand what you mean? What do you mean "proof"?

The reason HHH murdered him was because he went out of his own character and into that of Punks. The whole "Reality" thing. He talked about why the fans chant. Why they come to the shows, why they pay for the ppv's, why they sell out stadiums and so on. They worked their ass off from the bottom and worked their way up. The crowds got to like them in a natural way. Doing it that way meant they earnt not only the crowds respect but also the respect of the people in the business.

You say would i rather the Orton/Cena show and the answer is a clear NO. But i have a lot more respect for those two guys as they worked their way up from nothing. They didn't start off with egos, they earnt them by being there for years (Randy is in his 10th year, Cena is in his 11th). Punk has only been on the main shows since 2008. 3 years on RAW/Smackdown. Look at what he has done in that time. Multiple champion, Money in the bank winner and so on. Punk has done more in a few years then a lot of other wrestlers in the WWE have done in decades. But yet his persona is to whine and feel hard done by. Rather complain about the system then work his way to the top. If anyone adopts that mentality in life they won't get far at all.

All Punk had to reply to HHH was more complaints and whines. If it was not for HHH Punk would of looked like the average guy he is ages ago. It started with the Cena thing, that is why they had to bring in HHH to help get him over further. Or are you going to say Punk is bigger then HHH?

(also if you re-listen to the show your hear a lot of boos for Punk too)


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Rock316AE said:


> Agree,
> bodybuilders? HBK, Foley, Hart, Rey - killed.
> over with the crowd? last year, DEAD crowds in his SE promos - killed.
> held back? 2 MITB, WHC, WWE etc - killed.
> ...


And the fact all of this has been dealt with and proven wrong... tsk tsk tsk... when will you actually say something with merit? It would be a swerve worthy of Russo.


----------



## cenarko98 (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*



SoupMan Prime said:


> op is a Cena and Randy mark> worst of both worlds there lol.
> 
> Nash supposedly didnt read from a script and u see how awful he was im sure Punk has bullets he needs to say cuz if he was really allowed to say whatever he wants he would have shot down everything HHH said monday


say rockfan lolololo


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> Agree,
> bodybuilders? HBK, Foley, Hart, Rey - killed.
> over with the crowd? last year, DEAD crowds in his SE promos - killed.
> held back? 2 MITB, WHC, WWE etc - killed.
> ...


:lmao:lmao:lmao


You pretty much owned and closed this entire thread.

Repped (Y)(Y)


----------



## Falkono (Dec 7, 2009)

Brave Nash said:


> everything you just said is wrong, HHH murdered him part is stupid you dont have a clue..


Hey i don't doubt nut huggers will agree with me, and that is ok.

But i will ask you this one question seeing as you say everything i said is wrong.

Who has benefited the most from this whole Punk angle? What other wrestlers have been helped since Punk "changed everything"? Honestly.


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

I actually just tried to write a response in that language, and failed miserably. I don't know how you kids do it


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

You're a clueless sheep who isn't even a Rock fan. You made no absolute sense.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Fatmanp said:


> To all the trolls bringing up title history in regards to booking. Jack Swagger is a former world champion and mitb winner. Does that mean he has been booked well?


This. Good example.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

Go easy on the kid for fuck sake you people.

IWC is so Cruel.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

The promo actually was boring, triple h is wrong his points doesnt mean anything, guys grow up he didnt own anything punk wasnt even finished they cut his mic off so dont blame him and what was so amazing in triple h speech really nothing he keeps repeating him self you need to win the fans really? shut up one of the worst promo this year triple h had nothing to say hes repeating the same points get over it haters i prefer PUNK/CENA this is not helping anyone, trips cant hang with punk thats the truth it was really boring cena have better things to say than repeating himself in one night its a record..


----------



## Reservoir Angel (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Mr.Broski said:


> But punk still doesnt make sense... he is at the top now but why is he still complaining??


It's not just about him. It's about him trying to make sure that the WWE's main event isn't forever dominated by the John Cenas and Randy Ortons with everyone else shuffled into the pack and lost in the group, only called up briefly when a filler opponent or transitional champion is needed.

And you know what? I think that's a damn good reason to complain.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*



SoupMan Prime said:


> op is a Cena and Randy mark> worst of both worlds there lol.
> 
> Nash supposedly didnt read from a script and u see how awful he was im sure Punk has bullets he needs to say cuz if he was really allowed to say *whatever he wants he would have shot down everything HHH said monday*


Like what?? 

plz tell me what would be his responses to HHH without kayfabe restrictions?? 

Man up and admit it , hhh > Punk on the mic.

if punk needs to break kayfabe to get over he is not good enough.


----------



## Reservoir Angel (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*



holycityzoo said:


> I actually just tried to write a response in that language, and failed miserably. I don't know how you kids do it


Back-alley lobotomies help considerably.


----------



## BlakeGriffinFan32 (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*



Premeditated said:


> damn...man. Let a ninja be. If I want to hate on Punk, let me do it in peace.


Hey man, no one is saying you can't hate on Punk or to stop but holy crap everytime I see a post of yours, it is about Punk in a negative light. I cannot remember the last time you posted something that wasn't against Punk.


----------



## DoYouRealize??? (Jul 24, 2011)

How's everyone doin'?


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

Falkono said:


> Sorry i don't think i understand what you mean? What do you mean "proof"?
> 
> The reason HHH murdered him was because he went out of his own character and into that of Punks. The whole "Reality" thing. He talked about why the fans chant. Why they come to the shows, why they pay for the ppv's, why they sell out stadiums and so on. They worked their ass off from the bottom and worked their way up. The crowds got to like them in a natural way. Doing it that way meant they earnt not only the crowds respect but also the respect of the people in the business.
> 
> ...


This abso-fucking-lutely.

when are people gonna realise without HHH as punk's opponent , punk would already be in the mid-cards?? 

HHH saved punk's career after the feud with cena was done.

these deluded punk fanboys man.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

lol at capat and generic rock guy becoming friends. blind leading the blind.

But apparently that guy pretty much closed the thread so I don't know how I'm posting here.


----------



## Pillzmayn (Apr 7, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*

Cenation still can't get over the fact that nobody give a shit about Cena right now.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*



BlakeGriffinFan32 said:


> Hey man, no one is saying you can't hate on Punk or to stop but holy crap everytime I see a post of yours, it is about Punk in a negative light. I cannot remember the last time you posted something that wasn't against Punk.


well maybe you should read other threads. There's alot of thread I don't involve Pink in.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: CM Sucks xposed finlly*



Pillzmayn said:


> Cenation still can't get over the fact that nobody give a shit about Cena right now.


Whats with your sig then?? 

marking for cena?? WTF??


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Fatmanp said:


> To all the trolls bringing up title history in regards to booking. Jack Swagger is a former world champion and mitb winner. Does that mean he has been booked well?


Did jack swagger ever say he was "HELD" down by WWE???


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Capat needs to lead S.T.S. (Straight Trolling Society)/


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Reservoir Angel said:


> It's not just about him. It's about him trying to make sure that the WWE's main event isn't forever dominated by the John Cenas and Randy Ortons with everyone else shuffled into the pack and lost in the group, only called up briefly when a filler opponent or transitional champion is needed.
> 
> And you know what? I think that's a damn good reason to complain.


Punk is always catering to the internet smarks. that is why this angle is failing imo.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Winning™ said:


> Capat needs to lead S.T.S. (Straight Trolling Society)/


They'd be the RTC of 2011.


----------



## Edgeheadpeeps (May 4, 2011)

*CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*

People are getting tired of his promos. They say it's the same old stuff every week. What else can they do? Well if they have him just go out there and destroy every wrestler in sight people will just call him the new superman. Basically he's in a lose lose situation. Welcome to the club Punk.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*

Are you new? To pro wrestling?


----------



## DoYouRealize??? (Jul 24, 2011)

Falkono said:


> Sorry i don't think i understand what you mean? What do you mean* "proof"?*
> 
> The reason HHH murdered him was because he went out of his own character and into that of Punks. The whole "Reality" thing. He talked about why the fans chant. Why they come to the shows, why they pay for the ppv's, why they sell out stadiums and so on. They worked their ass off from the bottom and worked their way up. The crowds got to like them in a natural way. Doing it that way meant they earnt not only the crowds respect but also the respect of the people in the business.
> 
> ...


POOF. 

Pay due respect to the thread starter, FALKON.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

Capat what? huh?


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Capat, Premed, Nexus One, and Rock316AE.

Even the RTC was tolerable compared to them. They had Ivory.


----------



## Reservoir Angel (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Mr.Broski said:


> Punk is always catering to the internet smarks. that is why this angle is failing imo.


If by "failing" you mean "being the hottest shit going right now" then I agree.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:lmao

edit: True, true. That stable would be fucking brutal.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*

Who gives a fuck about IWC? 

IWC dont bring in the ratings or the buyrates. Worry about the casuals.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> Agree,
> bodybuilders? *HBK, Foley, Hart, Rey - killed.*
> over with the crowd? *last year, DEAD crowds in his SE promos - killed.*
> *held back? 2 MITB, WHC, WWE etc - killed.*
> ...


HBK - how many titles he had in the 90s,and from 2000/2010 it was the years of body builders..

foley - wasnt skinny hes fat but still weights more and how many titles he got and so he was humiliated by randy orton!
he spits in his face :shocked:..

hart - one thing to say he got screwed and not that famous either..

Rey - is not main eventing either he lost his title in one day against a body builder (cena)..


lol last year was not 2009 fpalm he had a descent fans he was heel tho ofcorse he will not have a big fans what an idiot..

he lost in 2010 alot and he won nothing lost to randy like never before and he never defeated him  and he achieve nothing he was held back..

so you and trips are wrong i told you he owned nothing he was repeating him self :no: in one night its a record, he had nothing to say he suck really i thought he can show him self more in the mic but he failed..


----------



## Amsterdam (Mar 8, 2010)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*

The thing about CM Punk is this - he makes a perfect mid-carder, and a good main-eventer. Someone who deserves to be on TV every week, get a little bit of spotlight, and should win a world title every couple of years. But he simply dosen't have what it takes to be the face of a brand, aka be in the main-event every week for months at a time. 

John Cena and Randy Orton excel at it. Rey Mysterio and The Miz can pull it off. Hell, even Sheamus and Christian can do it at this point.

But not Punk.

The numbers don't lie. When you're the main-focus of the show, and ratings continue to drop lower every week, people are tuning you out. They don't want to see you in the spotlight. You're not what they want to see. If Punk were, ratings would remain steady or ratings would go up.

CM Punk might be an IWC God at this point, but he isn't jack shit to the mainstream / casual fans - the ones that bring in the ratings - and he never will be.


----------



## nba2k10 (Mar 26, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Mr.Broski said:


> Punk is always catering to the internet smarks. that is why this angle is failing imo.


Because Jack Swagger may not wanna speak up, and thats why they call Punk Voice of the voiceless.


----------



## Amsterdam (Mar 8, 2010)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

I guess CM Punk's fans won't rest until he's the next John Cena. That's the only scenerio I can think of as to why they continue to bitch.

I can't stand Triple H. I've never been a fan of him, and I never will. But everything he told Punk last night was the truth. Punk dosen't have a reason to bitch anymore. His fans don't have a reason to bitch anymore. But yet they continue to, and it's starting to annoy everyone else.

CM Punk is definately the voice of the voiceless, because the voiceless = the IWC smarks that aren't satisfied no matter what.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



nba2k10 said:


> Because Jack Swagger may not wanna speak up, and thats why they call Punk Voice of the voiceless.


Except that Swagger isnt benefiting from this.

Punk becomes the top guy. What does swagger get??


----------



## Watsatroll (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Amsterdam said:


> The thing about CM Punk is this - he makes a perfect mid-carder, and a good main-eventer. Someone who deserves to be on TV every week, get a little bit of spotlight, and should win a world title every couple of years. But he simply dosen't have what it takes to be the face of a brand, aka be in the main-event every week for months at a time.
> 
> John Cena and Randy Orton excel at it. Rey Mysterio and The Miz can pull it off. Hell, even Sheamus and Christian can do it at this point.
> 
> ...


It's been two mother fucking months. Nobody is ready to be the face of the WWE after two months in the main event, he cannot carry a company on his back after two months. If the rest of the show is shit one guy cannot save it after two god damn months of being relevant. Most people watch to see Cena anyway, if he can't get ratings how the fuck can Punk?


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Amsterdam said:


> The thing about CM Punk is this - he makes a perfect mid-carder, and a good main-eventer. Someone who deserves to be on TV every week, get a little bit of spotlight, and should win a world title every couple of years. But he simply dosen't have what it takes to be the face of a brand, aka be in the main-event every week for months at a time.
> 
> John Cena and Randy Orton excel at it. Rey Mysterio and The Miz can pull it off. Hell, even Sheamus and Christian can do it at this point.
> 
> ...



Awesome post. repped


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*

Yes he does. He fits the whole "anti-WWE" mold that has made him to be the hot star that he is today. He most certainly can carry a company if they let Punk runs with the ball all the way to the endzone.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

S.T.S. 

:lmao:lmao:lmao


----------



## nba2k10 (Mar 26, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Mr.Broski said:


> Except that Swagger isnt benefiting from this.
> 
> Punk becomes the top guy. What does swagger get??


But Punk isn't top guy. Orton, Cena is ahead of him. And if was to be top guy, maybe swagger gets more recognized and booked more properly. I kind of like the storyline with him and Dolph but knowing WWE they might screw it up


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Amsterdam said:


> The thing about CM Punk is this - he makes a perfect mid-carder, and a good main-eventer. Someone who deserves to be on TV every week, get a little bit of spotlight, and should win a world title every couple of years. But he simply dosen't have what it takes to be the face of a brand, aka be in the main-event every week for months at a time.
> 
> John Cena and Randy Orton excel at it. Rey Mysterio and The Miz can pull it off. Hell, even Sheamus and Christian can do it at this point.
> 
> ...


Spot on.


----------



## slightlyoriginal (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*

And all the Punk haters instantly making their opinions known.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*

He has the ball right now but he is failing.

Anti-hero worked with austin in the 90s. Its 2011.

There is a reason why cena is the top face of the company.


----------



## Making Miztory (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Amsterdam said:


> The thing about CM Punk is this - he makes a perfect mid-carder, and a good main-eventer. Someone who deserves to be on TV every week, get a little bit of spotlight, and should win a world title every couple of years. But he simply dosen't have what it takes to be the face of a brand, aka be in the main-event every week for months at a time.
> 
> John Cena and Randy Orton excel at it. Rey Mysterio and The Miz can pull it off. Hell, even Sheamus and Christian can do it at this point.
> 
> ...


Except Punk's segments gain viewers and are the highest rated ones. Yeah, that's definite proof he shouldn't be in the spotlight.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Mr.Broski said:


> Who gives a fuck about IWC?
> 
> IWC dont bring in the ratings or the buyrates. Worry about the casuals.


That is why we are in this mess... seriously, all the WWE has been the past few years is a watered down product aimed at the lowest common denominator... pandering to the casuals has ruined so many things recently and I wish people would stop acting like this is worthy of anything but scorn.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Making Miztory said:


> Except Punk's segments gain viewers and are the highest rated ones. Yeah, that's definite proof he shouldn't be in the spotlight.


He is gaining viewers at the start of the show or the end of the show and whenever he is with cena or Trips.

but with Miz and del Rio he lost loads of viewers.


----------



## Amsterdam (Mar 8, 2010)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Winning™;10309488 said:


> Yes he does. He fits the whole "anti-WWE" mold that has made him to be the hot star that he is today. He most certainly can carry a company if they let Punk runs with the ball all the way to the endzone.


That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

You cannot be the face of WWE and carry the company on your back, if everything you stand for is against the current product. 

Believe it or not, a majority of people outside the Internet tune in to Raw every week because the enjoy watching the fucking show. If they didn't enjoy watching it, they'd watch something else.

So it's no wonder that when a guy suddenly starts hogging up airtime blabbering on about how WWE sucks and things need to be different, the fans that currently enjoy watching WWE programming stop watching it. It's interesting at first, but it gets old very quickly.


----------



## Making Miztory (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Kabraxal said:


> That is why we are in this mess... seriously, all the WWE has been the past few years is a watered down product aimed at the lowest common denominator... pandering to the casuals has ruined so many things recently and I wish people would stop acting like this is worthy of anything but scorn.


The casuals make the company their money, not the IWC. The IWC finds streams for PPVs and doesn't buy merch, they're not going to get catered to.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Kabraxal said:


> That is why we are in this mess... seriously, all the WWE has been the past few years is a watered down product aimed at the lowest common denominator... pandering to the casuals has ruined so many things recently and I wish people would stop acting like this is worthy of anything but scorn.


No one trying to say its good or quality entertainment pandring to the casuals.

But its the reality of the situation. 

Whether you and me like it or not its irrelevant when compared to 3 million casual fans.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

damn amsterdam never though about it from that pov


----------



## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Reservoir Angel said:


> It's not just about him. It's about him trying to make sure that the WWE's main event isn't forever dominated by the John Cenas and Randy Ortons with everyone else shuffled into the pack and lost in the group, only called up briefly when a filler opponent or transitional champion is needed.
> 
> And you know what? I think that's a damn good reason to complain.


You're complaining that "only" two guys are dominating the main event scene for years? Seriously? For years in the 1980s, only ONE guys (Hulk Hogan) dominated for scene for years, with other guys taking turns. That's the way it works. You have one (two now with two brands) perennial main eventer, and the other guys get to take turns being in the main event with them. There's nothing wrong with that. You can't have 8-10 guys consistently in the main event. Vince McMahon has decided that Cena and Orton are the top guys, and the others (some of them at least) get to take turns in the main event.

I may not agree with the two guys Vince has chosen to be main eventers, but I do agree that there needs to be no more than 2-3 guys consistently at the top. The other guys can take turns at the top, but they can't all stay there, because there's only room for a few guys at the top at any given time.


----------



## I Am GOAT (Jul 21, 2011)

i tink triple h will win wit d pedegree nd will cum to d ring wit stephanie and then nash will cum


----------



## Y2-Jerk (Aug 18, 2011)

I Am GOAT said:


> i tink triple h will win wit d pedegree nd will cum to d ring wit stephanie and then nash will cum


come not cum jeez what will help you spell right? Sesame Street? School? A functional brain?


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Amsterdam said:


> That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
> 
> You cannot be the face of WWE and carry the company on your back, if everything you stand for is against the current product.
> 
> ...


That makes no sense either. As if Punk really believes he truly hates the company. Like he said, he loves the company but hates the people running it. That is his goal. He wants to change the perspective and model of how the WWE structure has been for years. I wish people could stop underrating people who watch the show that happen to be people who get wrestling news from the internet. Of course the casuals are going to tune in every week since they have been designed to tolerate a WWE that has been stagnant, stale, and tedious at times for years anyways. Punk, at first, seemed like he was the longer who wanted change where people would think that they hate change coming. Recent weeks, however, he has been winning the crowds over on his beliefs and feelings, no matter the cities. Punk is gaining ground and has maintain his momentum. Maybe not for the angle but for himself, he is doing better than fine.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Making Miztory said:


> The casuals make the company their money, not the IWC. The IWC finds streams for PPVs and doesn't buy merch, they're not going to get catered to.


Bullshit. I know many that are part of the "IWC" that buy DVDs, shirts, mugs, glasses, and try their best to find ways to legitamately purchase PPVs. In fact, I would argue that the casual fan is less likely to spend 60 bucks on a monthly PPV than a hardcore wrestling fan. 

And I would love for you to explain that if casuals were a godsend to the WWE then why have the been on a steep decline for years in attendance at live events? They are pulling WCW stunts now to hide the fact that many shows don't even come close to selling out.


----------



## DoYouRealize??? (Jul 24, 2011)

I assume GOAT is part of a cult. Nothing else could explain that shit he's posting.


----------



## Shazayum (Jan 4, 2010)

SoupMan Prime said:


> 2 gray reps from machomuta lol. usually u gotta guess if its good or bad but i could pretty much guess "you gotta be a hardcore punk mark to think that promo was good" well im not a hardcore punk mark im just a wrestling fan that enjoys being entertained and Punk has been doing that for me since ECW and for others since ROH. You gotta be a Punk hater to say HHH owned Punk or his promo wasnt good. He didnt come out and make poopy jokes. This feud almost seems like a man feud. You got Cena using all his poopy jokes and Ric Rod is tatoo etc to HHH and Punk in a serious feud. Promo between the 2 was very good the ending was great.


machomuta is annoying. he never even posts so i cant give him any red rep.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Winning™;10309549 said:


> That makes no sense either. As if Punk really believes he truly hates the company. Like he said, he loves the company but hates the people running it. That is his goal. He wants to change the perspective and model of how the WWE structure has been for years. I wish people could stop underrating people who watch the show that happen to be people who get wrestling news from the internet. Of course the casuals are going to tune in every week since they have been designed to tolerate a WWE that has been stagnant, stale, and tedious at times for years anyways. Punk, at first, seemed like he was the longer who wanted change where people would think that they hate change coming. Recent weeks, however, he has been winning the crowds over on his beliefs and feelings, no matter the cities. Punk is gaining ground and has maintain his momentum. Maybe not for the angle but for himself, he is doing better than fine.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

HHH owned Punk in that promo.

No arguments. 

/thread


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

That's it, capat? That's all you had? Man, you make Ryder look lame.


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

FYI: Stone Cold gave his famous 316 promo June of 96, which just so happens to be exactly when WCW started beating WWF in the ratings. As we all know, they would dominate until spring-summer of 1998. Did the WWE back off Austin because of this? No. Should the WWE stop pushing Punk because of the fact that business has yet to pick up? No. The fact is that the WWE is trying to change to a different format of sports entertainment. When you change what you're doing, even when you know its for the better, there is going to be a time period that drags, seems confusing, doesn't gather as much support from the casuals, etc. because its still in the infant stage. If you really hate this story line and you really hate what CM Punk has to offer, I suggest you sick back and really think about what can come in the next 3-5 years if they have the same mindset with future story lines. Dare I say, it just maybe better than the attitude era


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

holycityzoo said:


> FYI: Stone Cold gave his famous 316 promo June of 96, which just so happens to be exactly when WCW started beating WWF in the ratings. As we all know, they would dominate until spring-summer of 1998. Did the WWE back off Austin because of this? No. Should the WWE stop pushing Punk because of the fact that business has yet to pick up? No. The fact is that the WWE is trying to change to a different format of sports entertainment. When you change what you're doing, even when you know its for the better, there is going to be a time period that drags, seems confusing, doesn't gather as much support from the casuals, etc. because its still in the infant stage. If you really hate this story line and you really hate what CM Punk has to offer, I suggest you sick back and really think about what can come in the next 3-5 years if they have the same mindset with future story lines. Dare I say, it just maybe better than the attitude era


FYI : AUSTIN HAD TO COMPETE WITH WCW & nWo.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Amsterdam said:


> The thing about CM Punk is this - he makes a perfect mid-carder, and a good main-eventer. Someone who deserves to be on TV every week, get a little bit of spotlight, and should win a world title every couple of years. But he simply dosen't have what it takes to be the face of a brand, aka be in the main-event every week for months at a time.
> 
> *John Cena and Randy Orton excel at it. Rey Mysterio and The Miz can pull it off. Hell, even Sheamus and Christian can do it at this point.
> 
> ...


one thing the show sucks without punk, and i swear to god my friends are big fans of him but they dont watch the show live coz they dont care about the other ones they are really boring what will punk do for them they are boring the roster is damn not good..

and the one in black you are insane fpalm numbers my ass you dont proof anything the roster sucks people will not watch the show for one guy go fuck your self you make no sense at all, punk is why i watch the show dont lie and say no..


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

I am dying for a change... we are dying for a change... I want change ...

What change do you want punk ?

Ice cream bars. Oh yeah Ice cream Fucking bars!!!!!


----------



## Making Miztory (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Kabraxal said:


> Bullshit. I know many that are part of the "IWC" that buy DVDs, shirts, mugs, glasses, and try their best to find ways to legitamately purchase PPVs. In fact, I would argue that the casual fan is less likely to spend 60 bucks on a monthly PPV than a hardcore wrestling fan.
> 
> And I would love for you to explain that if casuals were a godsend to the WWE then why have the been on a steep decline for years in attendance at live events? They are pulling WCW stunts now to hide the fact that many shows don't even come close to selling out.


Perhaps you do, but that doesn't mean all that much, just because you know a few guys doesn't mean it's really that way. You look around forums like this and it's littered with people who aren't spending their money on PPVs and not as much as the casuals on merch. 

I'm not saying they're a godsend, I'm saying they're who will get marketed to because in a business sense, it makes much more sense than to go after the guys who don't spend nearly as much on their product. As for live events, they're really not that big of a deal financially, and they've also been doing it for years, not just recently.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Mr.Broski said:


> FYI : AUSTIN HAD TO COMPETE WITH WCW & nWo.


FYI: Punk has to compete with the WWE being complete shit. If there was an actual competitor right now WWE would be royally fucked. They are only around because they are basically the only show in town at the moment.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Mr.Broski said:


> FYI : AUSTIN HAD TO COMPETE WITH WCW & nWo.


You talk about Punk being repetitive? I think you've said that same like 40 times on 10 different accounts.


----------



## p862011 (Jan 6, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*

people still dont get punk's character and it is frightening he is not just in it for selfish reasons of being a top guy his whole voice of the voiceless character is to get guys more opportunities guys who are afraid to speak up isnead of the status quo or cena/orton


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Making Miztory said:


> Perhaps you do, but that doesn't mean all that much, just because you know a few guys doesn't mean it's really that way. You look around forums like this and it's littered with people who aren't spending their money on PPVs and not as much as the casuals on merch.
> 
> I'm not saying they're a godsend, I'm saying they're who will get marketed to because in a business sense, it makes much more sense than to go after the guys who don't spend nearly as much on their product. As for live events, they're really not that big of a deal financially, and they've also been doing it for years, not just recently.


Uh... the live events are their life blood. IF that dries up the merchandising will dry up not long after BECAUSE THERE WILL BE NO REASON TO BUY THE MERCH!

As for sales... really, who is more likely to buy a 60 ppv, a shirt, tickets, and the dvd when it is released? The casual or the diehard fan? If you really say casual that tells me all I need to know.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

the wwe has no competition which is what hurts them. 

Before if one thing sucked you could watch wwf/wcw and still be immersed in wrestling

Today if the wwe sucks you are pretty much fucked and once the casual fan leaves..... they may never come back


----------



## Amsterdam (Mar 8, 2010)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Winning™ said:


> That makes no sense either. As if Punk really believes he truly hates the company. Like he said, he loves the company but hates the people running it. That is his goal. He wants to change the perspective and model of how the WWE structure has been for years. I wish people could stop underrating people who watch the show that happen to be people who get wrestling news from the internet. Of course the casuals are going to tune in every week since they have been designed to tolerate a WWE that has been stagnant, stale, and tedious at times for years anyways. Punk, at first, seemed like he was the longer who wanted change where people would think that they hate change coming. Recent weeks, however, he has been winning the crowds over on his beliefs and feelings, no matter the cities. Punk is gaining ground and has maintain his momentum. Maybe not for the angle but for himself, he is doing better than fine.


Punk hasn't gained shit.

Apart from his obsessive fanbase making his "Best in the World" shirt the #1 shirt on WWEShop.com, he has done nothing but piss a majority of wrestling fans off and flip the channel since he's come back.

WWE isn't perfect. Nothing is. Some people enjoy everything about the current product, and some don't. But unfortunately for Punk, more people like the current product than those who dislike it. So Punk can stand up there for 20 minutes and bitch about the state of WWE programming until Kelly Kelly dons a habit and joins a convent. Nothing is going to significantly change. 

Punk was given the ball a few months ago. Fuck, he was given everything he could ask for on a silver platter from Vince McMahon himself. And now the truth is starting to come out.

He's wasted his opportunity.


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> FYI : AUSTIN HAD TO COMPETE WITH WCW & nWo.


And Punk is competing with the fact that nobody gives a shit about pro wrestling any more. Which do you think is harder?


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Mr.Broski said:


> HHH owned Punk in that promo.
> 
> No arguments.
> 
> /thread


punk owned triple h

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV_bmdq8RZk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kB0RGixUrU&feature=related

great promo keep trolling bitch..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9xHo5Y2Y_k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHwVK1Puino

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjST_y1tIi8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfRkvRFx8FU

punk is a future legend bitch


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Amsterdam said:


> Punk hasn't gained shit.
> 
> Apart from his obsessive fanbase making his "Best in the World" shirt the #1 shirt on WWEShop.com, he has done nothing but piss a majority of wrestling fans off and flip the channel since he's come back.
> 
> ...



You know this how???????


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

holycityzoo said:


> And Punk is competing with the fact that nobody gives a shit about pro wrestling any more. Which do you think is harder?


Well if Punk , after shooting on the biggest pro-wrestling company in the world, cant draw ratings then how else is he gonna draw??


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



holycityzoo said:


> You know this how???????


Prove him wrong.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Brave Nash said:


> punk owned triple h
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV_bmdq8RZk
> 
> ...


That isnt what you call owned but i will go with it.


So punk "owned" Triple h when he never responds but when HHH actually responds Punk is made look like a whiny bitch. 


So who is better on the mic here?? 

you tell me.


----------



## Making Miztory (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Kabraxal said:


> Uh... there live events are their life blood. IF that dries up the merchandising will dry up not long after BECAUSE THERE WILL BE NO REASON TO BUY THE MERCH!
> 
> As for sales... really, who is more likely to buy a 60 ppv, a shirt, tickets, and the dvd when it is released? The casual or the diehard fan? If you really say casual that tells me all I need to know.


Oh, I get what you're saying, casuals vs. diehards. Sorry I gave you too much credit in assuming you didn't mean that only internet fans are diehards. And of all the wrestling shirts I've seen out in public, yeah, take a guess how many are adults wearing Punk shirts compared to women and children wearing Cena shirts. 

And I think we may have got mixed up on live events. I interpreted it as the house shows, and you seem to mean the TV tapings, my apologies. Either way, aside from a recent Smackdown taping, attendance doesn't seem to be as big of an issue as it was 10 years ago, and that's with two complete live event tours year-round, very much diluting the market. It's not as important to go now when there'll be another event there fairly soon, it's that simple.


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> Well if Punk , after shooting on the biggest pro-wrestling company in the world, cant draw ratings then how else is he gonna draw??


By working with Vince, HHH, Steph, and the other backstage higher ups to develop a new form of sports entertainment, known as the Reality Era. Constantly blurring the lines between kayfabe and reality keeps the viewer guessing what is real and what isn't and I'm sure they'll come up with a way to incorporate this method into in-ring philosophy. When the viewer is forced to ask questions they will tune in next week to get the answers.


Mr.Broski said:


> Prove him wrong.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

^^^ one word = TNA.

Worked shoots are not good for business.


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> Well if Punk , after shooting on the biggest pro-wrestling company in the world, cant draw ratings then how else is he gonna draw??


By working with Vince, HHH, Steph, and the other backstage higher ups to develop a new form of sports entertainment, known as the Reality Era. Constantly blurring the lines between kayfabe and reality keeps the viewer guessing what is real and what isn't and I'm sure they'll come up with a way to incorporate this method into in-ring philosophy. When the viewer is forced to ask questions they will tune in next week to get the answers.


Mr.Broski said:


> Prove him wrong.


That would take about 6 months of my time in research. My point is that nobody knows whether or not the audience is satisfied with the current product, but based on the fact that they are changing eras, formats, whatever you want to call it, I think they saw a lot of people losing interest.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

*Re: 1 point i did'nt like hhh brought up*



Mr.Broski said:


> That isnt what you call owned but i will go with it.
> 
> 
> *So punk "owned" Triple h when he never responds* but when HHH actually responds Punk is made look like a whiny bitch.
> ...


fpalm please stop 

punk owned him look i showed you more than one promo and you still dont believe it oh fpalm
and how he didnt respond to punk oh my god i need to stop people like you will never understand 
your hate basically will not change, hate him for no reason i guess, but im 100% sure wwe without punk is nothing its a fact..


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> ^^^ one word = TNA.
> 
> Worked shoots are not good for business.


I disagree 100%. If they are used properly, they can be great for business. What do you think the whole NWO angle was???


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

andd how did it end for WCW???


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Making Miztory said:


> Oh, I get what you're saying, casuals vs. diehards. Sorry I gave you too much credit in assuming you didn't mean that only internet fans are diehards. And of all the wrestling shirts I've seen out in public, yeah, take a guess how many are adults wearing Punk shirts compared to women and children wearing Cena shirts.
> 
> And I think we may have got mixed up on live events. I interpreted it as the house shows, and you seem to mean the TV tapings, my apologies. Either way, aside from a recent Smackdown taping, attendance doesn't seem to be as big of an issue as it was 10 years ago, and that's with two complete live event tours year-round, very much diluting the market. It's not as important to go now when there'll be another event there fairly soon, it's that simple.


Live events as in all of them... house shows, PPVs, and TV tapings for Raw/Smackdown... attendance is down for a lot of them and that is not good. The fact you dismiss this as unimportant is telling. Seriously, why do you think they are starting to have supershows... it's because they can't sell enough tickets to warrant seperate tours like they used to be able to do. Do some research. They might be making money but it isn't a rosy outlook for the WWE if they can't turn it around soon.

And IWCs are diehards, and I guarantee that the IWC is much bigger than you seem to think. Facebook, twitter, and places like this are more common than ten years ago so stop acting like we are merely a small little percentage of cave lurkers that have no lives. The fact of this world we live in is that the internet community is a huge factor in almost everything. Get used to that fact and stop acting like it isn't true.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Kabraxal said:


> Live events as in all of them... house shows, PPVs, and TV tapings for Raw/Smackdown... attendance is down for a lot of them and that is not good. The fact you dismiss this as unimportant is telling. Seriously, why do you think they are starting to have supershows... it's because they can't sell enough tickets to warrant seperate tours like they used to be able to do. Do some research. They might be making money but it isn't a rosy outlook for the WWE if they can't turn it around soon.
> 
> And IWCs are diehards, and I guarantee that the IWC is much bigger than you seem to think. Facebook, twitter, and places like this are more common than ten years ago so stop acting like we are merely a small little percentage of cave lurkers that have no lives. The fact of this world we live in is that the internet community is a huge factor in almost everything. Get used to that fact and stop acting like it isn't true.


fpalmfpalmfpalm

Fecebook and twitter users are 80% casuals.

besides facebook 8 million = all over the world but raw viewers = 3 million US.

ratings in United states should prove punk is a draw or not.


----------



## joeisgonnakillyou (Jul 8, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> ^^^ one word = TNA.
> 
> Worked shoots are not good for business.


three words

New World Order.


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> andd how did it end for WCW???


WCW failed because of the shitty booking of Nash, and Russo being Russo. It had nothing to do with worked shoots. The NWO angle defines worked shoot, and it catapulted wrestling into the mainstream.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

joeisgonnakillyou said:


> three words
> 
> New World Order.


and how did that End for WCW??

worked shoots are good way to gain instant attention from fans but if you over do it.

It becomes TNA.


----------



## Smackdownfan777 (Oct 28, 2009)

Glad punk got owned.


----------



## HeartBreak&Triumph (Dec 10, 2008)

HHH is a top 5 mic worker ever. I'm certain now.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

Russo = Worked shoots.

WWE is doing it now.


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> and how did that End for WCW??
> 
> worked shoots are good way to gain instant attention from fans but if you over do it.
> 
> It becomes TNA.


Again, worked shoots did not kill WCW. Russo and Nash's bookings killed WCW.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

HeartBreak&Triumph said:


> HHH is a top 5 mic worker ever. I'm certain now.


He was Top 5 for me since 2004. 

shame his marriage overshadows his talent.


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> Russo = Worked shoots.
> 
> WWE is doing it now.


Russo = giving David Arquette the WCW Championship. Worked shoots are just like any other part of wrestling, you have to use them right and with the right people. The WWE and Vince, can seriously use this to their advantage, like WCW did with NWO. It captivates the casual and the hardcore fans alike.


----------



## joeisgonnakillyou (Jul 8, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> and how did that End for WCW??
> 
> worked shoots are good way to gain instant attention from fans but if you over do it.
> 
> It becomes TNA.


What TNA, they haven't use a shoot since god knows when.

Punk with a worked shoot made WWE cool again (fact).
But they didn't use it right and made punk look like a bitch.

WCW died because:

1. Russo
2. Russo
3. Politics

Guess what, the WWF used it too in the attitude era with the mcmahons/HHH and didn't go under. 

To be honest a cm punk promo is no different from a rocky promo on HHH and steph but during that time they didn't bring a 52 years old guy to feud with the rock.


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> He was Top 5 for me since 2004.
> 
> *shame his marriage overshadows his talent*.


we agree on something


----------



## Making Miztory (Jun 28, 2011)

Kabraxal said:


> Live events as in all of them... house shows, PPVs, and TV tapings for Raw/Smackdown... attendance is down for a lot of them and that is not good. The fact you dismiss this as unimportant is telling. Seriously, why do you think they are starting to have supershows... it's because they can't sell enough tickets to warrant seperate tours like they used to be able to do. Do some research. They might be making money but it isn't a rosy outlook for the WWE if they can't turn it around soon.
> 
> And IWCs are diehards, and I guarantee that the IWC is much bigger than you seem to think. Facebook, twitter, and places like this are more common than ten years ago so stop acting like we are merely a small little percentage of cave lurkers that have no lives. The fact of this world we live in is that the internet community is a huge factor in almost everything. Get used to that fact and stop acting like it isn't true.


Actually, the Supershows have everything to do with ratings. WWE has no problem with their ratings to begin the show and at the end of each hour, which Punk is always a part of recently, but has major issues with ratings elsewhere. Thus Randy Orton is now occupying time in that slot. RAW's attendance hasn't been an issue at all, yet they're the ones getting the Supershow. Why, ratings. And, really, aside from that one Smackdown taping, I haven't heard it being a huge deal at all(which is why I thought you meant house shows). The WWE's been tarping off areas for a very long time, it just happens sometimes in certain cities. The odd stinker doesn't reflect the whole.

And no, house shows aren't that important, a lot of it is basically added revenue. Obviously they'd like to see attendance booming, but it's never been that stellar, and isn't going to be now, as they're much less rare in the States. Helps when they now have two separate house show tours that has essentially doubled their revenue from, say, the Attitude era. 



holycityzoo said:


> WCW failed because of the shitty booking of Nash, and Russo being Russo. It had nothing to do with worked shoots. The NWO angle defines worked shoot, and it catapulted wrestling into the mainstream.


Part of that was Russo's constant worked shoots, that were incredibly over the top. Worked shoots do work somewhat, they've just got to toe a careful line. Can't break kayfabe, and have to be something people understand. Last night's promo came very close to crossing that line, but overall, I thought it was pretty good.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

lol people always say WWE is shit then Punk says it and suddenly "nah it's good". ~___~

I really don't give a fuck because I'm enjoying myself and quite frankly I see Punk succeeding. Which means that I'll still be watching. I don't care if the ratings of the show were .000001, if I like it why should I care?


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Mr.Broski said:


> fpalmfpalmfpalm
> 
> Fecebook and twitter users are 80% casuals.
> 
> ...


Those that routinely post on a wrestling facebook site or follow a wrestling tweet... that is part of the IWC. What the fuck do you people consider the IWC if postin routinely on the internet is not IWC material.... really... enlighten me. Please.


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

joeisgonnakillyou said:


> Guess what, the WWF used it too in the attitude era with the mcmahons/HHH and didn't go under.


truth.


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

Making Miztory said:


> Part of that was Russo's constant worked shoots, that were incredibly over the top. Worked shoots do work somewhat, they've just got to toe a careful line. Can't break kayfabe, and have to be something people understand. Last night's promo came very close to crossing that line, but overall, I thought it was pretty good.


I agree, like everything, it has to be used properly. However, in today's day in age, where everyone knows that kayfabe exists, you have to break it every once in a while to keep interest. It adds a personal feel to the feud just like in this one where the motto is "It's Personal!"


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Making Miztory said:


> Actually, the Supershows have everything to do with ratings. WWE has no problem with their ratings to begin the show and at the end of each hour, which Punk is always a part of recently, but has major issues with ratings elsewhere. Thus Randy Orton is now occupying time in that slot. RAW's attendance hasn't been an issue at all, yet they're the ones getting the Supershow. Why, ratings. And, really, aside from that one Smackdown taping, I haven't heard it being a huge deal at all(which is why I thought you meant house shows). The WWE's been tarping off areas for a very long time, it just happens sometimes in certain cities. The odd stinker doesn't reflect the whole.
> 
> And no, house shows aren't that important, a lot of it is basically added revenue. Obviously they'd like to see attendance booming, but it's never been that stellar, and isn't going to be now, as they're much less rare in the States. Helps when they now have two separate house show tours that has essentially doubled their revenue from, say, the Attitude era.
> 
> ...


House shows are a huge deal even today still. You start losing house shows before you lost the tv audience. Hell, this is how the WWE back in 97/98 knew they were starting to win the war. They were outperforming WCW in house shows, which shows a fervour and excitement about the product. People want to pay to see them even if it isn't televised. When you reach the point the audience doesn't care to go to a house show, it isn't long until that same ennui pervades the TV audience (hello... silent crowds that are not in sold out arenas is signs this is already happening!). You are dismissing a huge and important factor just to make the WWE look like it is doing better than it actually is.


----------



## PunkDrunk (Jul 23, 2011)

Brye said:


> lol people always say WWE is shit then Punk says it and suddenly "nah it's good". ~___~
> 
> I really don't give a fuck because I'm enjoying myself and quite frankly I see Punk succeeding. Which means that I'll still be watching. I don't care if the ratings of the show were .000001, if I like it why should I care?


because the WWE will abandon ship on the angle you enjoy and youll be stuck watching the same old 5hit.
Doesnt Punk v HHH, the sudden reveal of the text feel rushed to you?
Looks to me as if theyre getting the lifeboats ready... Thats why you should care


----------



## truk83 (Jul 22, 2009)

That was easily the best worked skit before a PPV match between two men that I have ever seen. Both men hit highs that won't ever be matched back-and-forth the way they did last night. Kudos to both men, and this match is going to be a huge event.


----------



## Making Miztory (Jun 28, 2011)

Brye said:


> lol people always say WWE is shit then Punk says it and suddenly "nah it's good". ~___~
> 
> I really don't give a fuck because I'm enjoying myself and quite frankly I see Punk succeeding. Which means that I'll still be watching. I don't care if the ratings of the show were .000001, if I like it why should I care?


It's because many people on here are the biggest marks of all, and are louder about it. They personally don't like Punk that much and set out to prove that their opinion is the one held by the majority.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

PunkDrunk said:


> because the WWE will abandon ship on the angle you enjoy and youll be stuck watching the same old 5hit.
> Doesnt Punk v HHH, the sudden reveal of the text feel rushed to you?
> Looks to me as if theyre getting the lifeboats ready... Thats why you should care


If I'm not enjoying the show, I don't watch. Simple as that. It's Monday Night Football season and I have a shitload of DVDs/Matches that I do enjoy until something comes along that interests me.


----------



## WWE_champ (May 25, 2005)

The promo ran a little long. It wasn't really good up until the last minute.Honestly, I have no desire to see this match or feud. It seems rushed, IMO.


----------



## Johnny Sweatpants (Jun 11, 2010)

I just watched yesterday's RAW for a second time (because apparently I have that kind of time) and I gotta say - the HHH/Punk stuff has most certainly _not_ run its course. 

I firmly believe that since Punk's first shoot, neither one knows what the other is going to say next and this is why the storyline is so compelling. HHH is genuinely trying hard to make Punk look like an asshole and vice versa. That's why we can't tell who's supposed to be the face and who's supposed to be the heel. They're both _trying_ to be the good guy. If I'm right (and I usually am) then this points to a great leap for the WWE. Hopefully it will cause a ripple effect that will trickle down to the midcard. How much more entertaining would a confrontation between say, John Morrison and Dolph Ziggler be if neither one knew what the other guy was going to say next? Maybe it would be a disaster but it would be 50x more engaging than the scripted dog shit that they're currently spewing. 

If I'm wrong then that's great too. It makes me respect HHH and Punk even more for their impeccable delivery and facial reactions.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

Johnny Sweatpants said:


> I just watched yesterday's RAW for a second time (because apparently I have that kind of time) and I gotta say - the HHH/Punk stuff has most certainly _not_ run its course.
> 
> I firmly believe that since Punk's first shoot, neither one knows what the other is going to say next and this is why the storyline is so compelling. HHH is genuinely trying hard to make Punk look like an asshole and vice versa. That's why we can't tell who's supposed to be the face and who's supposed to be the heel. They're both _trying_ to be the good guy. If I'm right (and I usually am) then this points to a great leap for the WWE. Hopefully it will cause a ripple effect that will trickle down to the midcard. How much more entertaining would a confrontation between say, John Morrison and Dolph Ziggler be if neither one knew what the other guy was going to say next? Maybe it would be a disaster but it would be 50x more engaging than the scripted dog shit that they're currently spewing.
> 
> If I'm wrong then that's great too. It makes me respect HHH and Punk even more for their impeccable delivery and facial reactions.



nah HHH was carrying Punk throughout the promo.

HHH was the one who sold the PPV which is the promo should be about.

Punk kept sucking upto the crowd ... ice cream bars, body building fetish all that crap.

when hhh gave him facts he couldnt respond.

When john cena sucks upto to the crowd everyone rages on him but when punk does it , its called good promo?? 

double standards much??


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

the promo sucked triple h have nothing to say hes bitching that punk dont have his fans while punk fans proved him wrong but still he repeat the same point more than 3 times.. punk i cant blame him trips is not that good he fucked up everything..


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

lol brave nash trying so hard.

HHH was referring to punk's past btw not the present crowd reaction he gets.


----------



## Making Miztory (Jun 28, 2011)

Kabraxal said:


> House shows are a huge deal even today still. You start losing house shows before you lost the tv audience. Hell, this is how the WWE back in 97/98 knew they were starting to win the war. They were outperforming WCW in house shows, which shows a fervour and excitement about the product. People want to pay to see them even if it isn't televised. When you reach the point the audience doesn't care to go to a house show, it isn't long until that same ennui pervades the TV audience (hello... silent crowds that are not in sold out arenas is signs this is already happening!). You are dismissing a huge and important factor just to make the WWE look like it is doing better than it actually is.


Haha yeah WWF knew they were winning the war in 1997, like when they let Bret Hart out of his contract because they couldn't afford it and were close to shutting down. And business was ridiculous for WCW in 1997, and especially 1998. They sold out almost half their house shows in 98, which is absolutely incredible. Keep in mind that during the Monday Night Wars, WCW had a lesser house show schedule than the WWF, yet made tons of money up until 1999. Now the WWE's essentially doubled the house show schedule. 

And, honestly, other than that Smackdown taping, I haven't heard it being a major issue. Attendance might not be great, but rarely has it ever been, which isn't surprising considering they're quite predictable and they're not nearly as rare as they were 10 years ago. The bigger issues are PPV buys being down, as well as ratings.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Mr.Broski said:


> *lol brave nash trying so hard.*
> 
> HHH was referring to punk's past btw not the present crowd reaction he gets.


Says the guy hitting double digits in accounts.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> lol brave nash trying so hard.
> 
> HHH was referring to punk's past btw not the present crowd reaction he gets.


hhh sucks really dont try to prove me that hes not, he had nothing to say he repeated the same point more than 3 times punk is not stupid 
what will punk say about the fans when they are already chanting his name, and triple h is trying so hard too hard to be in cm punks level 
punk is obviously way better at least he doesnt need to repeat the same point many times in one promo like triple h he obviously dont know 
what to say ..


----------



## DoYouRealize??? (Jul 24, 2011)

Seriously. Brave Nash and capat exchanging words is eye, logic and mind rape. 

Such a peculiar way this folks settle their differences.


----------



## Making Miztory (Jun 28, 2011)

Mr.Broski said:


> lol brave nash trying so hard.
> 
> HHH was referring to punk's past btw not the present crowd reaction he gets.


Which can easily be explained, Trips either forgot Punk was a heel from mid-2009 to mid-2011 or used it anyway knowing Punk couldn't respond without breaking kayfabe. That's either why maybe you should use a script somewhat, or, it's just a great way of not establishing who the good guy really is. Really, it's made for a highly unpredictable PPV match, because it's pretty tough to tell what's going to happen. Someone's likely turning heel, but it's quite believable either way. Punk going over Trips clean would've also been quite plausible, and Trips finally showing respect for him, if they didn't add the COO stip(maybe they're saving that finish for later). Pretty good storytelling.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Making Miztory said:


> Haha yeah WWF knew they were winning the war in 1997, like when they let Bret Hart out of his contract because they couldn't afford it and were close to shutting down. And business was ridiculous for WCW in 1997, and especially 1998. They sold out almost half their house shows in 98, which is absolutely incredible. Keep in mind that during the Monday Night Wars, WCW had a lesser house show schedule than the WWF, yet made tons of money up until 1999. Now the WWE's essentially doubled the house show schedule.
> 
> And, honestly, other than that Smackdown taping, I haven't heard it being a major issue. Attendance might not be great, but rarely has it ever been, which isn't surprising considering they're quite predictable and they're not nearly as rare as they were 10 years ago. The bigger issues are PPV buys being down, as well as ratings.


I didn't say WCW was doing horrible yet did I... o wait, you must put words into my mouth to win your pathetic argument. Fact is 98 was a great year for both companies. But WWE was pulling ahead in every respect but the ratings and eventually that turned around. WCW is very much like you and thought that only ratings mattered when in fact it isn't that important compared to attendance figures and PPV buys. It not only indicates excitement for the product, but it allows for exposure and merchandising in more markets.

And yes the WWE has more shows now, but when you can rarely have a sell out and struggle to fill house shows and don't routinely sell out tapings or even PPVs... that is an issue whether you wish to agree or not. At some point the cost of using the arena and having a show is not worth the pay off.


----------



## Making Miztory (Jun 28, 2011)

Kabraxal said:


> I didn't say WCW was doing horrible yet did I... o wait, you must put words into my mouth to win your pathetic argument. Fact is 98 was a great year for both companies. But WWE was pulling ahead in every respect but the ratings and eventually that turned around. WCW is very much like you and thought that only ratings mattered when in fact it isn't that important compared to attendance figures and PPV buys. It not only indicates excitement for the product, but it allows for exposure and merchandising in more markets.
> 
> And yes the WWE has more shows now, but when you can rarely have a sell out and struggle to fill house shows and don't routinely sell out tapings or even PPVs... that is an issue whether you wish to agree or not. At some point the cost of using the arena and having a show is not worth the pay off.


You said the WWF knew they were winning the war due to house show attendance. That's simply hard to believe, considering WCW was doing better than them in that regard, and others. The WWF knew they were winning the war when they started actually winning the ratings war, not before. I'm not putting any words in your mouth, I'm showing how little you know. The fact that you lumped 1997, when the WWF was in major peril, in there also shows that.

And actually, the WCW didn't disregard attendance at all, as they were cleaning up in that regard. They just put too much into ratings, mainly because of Bischoff's ego.


----------



## HHHbkDX (Apr 29, 2009)

I posted this on another thread, and I've decided to post it here too

We FINALLY got something awesome from the WWE in this whole Punk storyline and everything, and what did you fucking tools(talking to the band wagon Punk haters and the general WWE haters) do? You Bitched, Cried, Moaned, Whined, and Complained non stop throughout as usual....It's just absolutely SAD. Well, I hope you're ready to have Cena's nuts shoved down your throats so hard. I know this is gonna sound stupid, but none of you DESERVE to watch the type of WWE we got these past few months, cause, lets be honest here, lets be COMPLETELY honest, WWE tried...They tried to give you the storyline YOU wanted. They GAVE you a MASSIVE CM Punk push, something you tools begged and CRIED for. They gave you an EXCELLENT storyline. And throughout ALL of it....you BITCHED. Now when you start bitching about Cena holding the title for the 15th time, just remember, WWE gave you something great, something YOU WANTED, and instead of spending time enjoying it, you did what you do best, you bitched about it.


----------



## p862011 (Jan 6, 2011)

hhh saying punk was'nt getting a reaction a year ago is bull a year ago he was doing SES one of the most over stables and the straight edge character was very over

punk was also a full on heel so sorry trips if punk was'nt getting unanimous cheers when he was a villain lol


----------



## dissident (Sep 25, 2006)

they are the ones that screwed up (in my opinion) the punk storyline. The promo started out great, then they first of all, brought punk back too soon, then let the storyline drag out and become confusing, along with turning him into a bit of a whiner who is having a bit of a problem clarifying exactly what sort of change he wants and taking the steps to get it done, he just seems to be setting HHH up for something more then anything, with his blind hatred of HHH. 

I guess sunday will bring some answers. 

I wasn't watching during the nexus storyline, but from what I've heard it had potential and they just let it fizzle out for no reason... cliqs work well.. people that group together for a common goal.. especially when the leader is someone over with the crowd.. it helps put over the midcarders that join him/her... especially when the storyline is believable and it provokes emotional reactions with the crowd. DX and nWo were good examples back in the day. News flash.. it also sells merchandise, particularly shirts with the logo of the cliq on it, and I'm not talking about reviving old dead cliqs either, be innovative. 

I like the idea of a power struggle between laurinitis and HHH. Involve punk somehow, and have the midcard join as well.


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

HHHbkDX said:


> I posted this on another thread, and I've decided to post it here too
> 
> We FINALLY got something awesome from the WWE in this whole Punk storyline and everything, and what did you fucking tools(talking to the band wagon Punk haters and the general WWE haters) do? You Bitched, Cried, Moaned, Whined, and Complained non stop throughout as usual....It's just absolutely SAD. Well, I hope you're ready to have Cena's nuts shoved down your throats so hard. I know this is gonna sound stupid, but none of you DESERVE to watch the type of WWE we got these past few months, cause, lets be honest here, lets be COMPLETELY honest, WWE tried...They tried to give you the storyline YOU wanted. They GAVE you a MASSIVE CM Punk push, something you tools begged and CRIED for. They gave you an EXCELLENT storyline. And throughout ALL of it....you BITCHED. Now when you start bitching about Cena holding the title for the 15th time, just remember, WWE gave you something great, something YOU WANTED, and instead of spending time enjoying it, you did what you do best, you bitched about it.


I feel you man. A lot of people here just wait for them to fail so they have something to bitch about on here. Even something as great as what we've been given, they try to find something to bitch about. I'm fairly new to this forum, but a lot of people on here that I've come across do approach the show with a fair and objective view, but others on here just have such a need to bitch and moan that even if they put together the greatest story line of all time with the greatest mid card to back it up, they will still have something to bitch about. It really just fuels the stereotype of the IWC, which I guess is pretty accurate. At least a lot of people on here appreciate what the WWE has done the last couple months and what is yet to come.


----------



## kennedy=god (May 12, 2007)

Having skimmed through 'bits of this thread there seems to be absolutely no middle-ground at all here, and honestly i've actually seen barely any posts i completely agree with on here. First of all, anybody who thinks that Punk is going to pull an Austin and usher in some new boom period is, well, i'll be nice and say naive. There is pretty much no chance of that happening at all, he's still got an absolutely huge mountain to climb to get to where Cena was/is, let alone Austin. Comparing this to Stone Cold's early days as some have done (or were doing) is just plain stupid, everybody seems to do that anytime anybody even slightly charasmatic has a slight character tweak or turns face anyway.


Second of all, anybody who thinks CM Punk and this whole angle that has come with it has had a negative impact and is somehow responsible for bad ratings is just plain wrong, no matter what you think of this HHH/Punk feud. The fact that this thread has nearly as many posts as the actual Raw discussion thread suggests that he has gained peoples interest, the fact that you see absolutely loads of Cm Punk shirts and signs at shows suggests that as well, the fact that he's been getting cheered over HHH (How often has that happened over the last 5 years?) suggests that and the fact that the "HHH CM Punk face off" being the main event of last nights show suggests that management know that CM Punk's push and his feud with HHH has been a success so far. Those that don't see that Punk has a big fan-base and is getting people's attention are blind.


----------



## Mr.Broski (Sep 13, 2011)

I just hear a lot of bullshit from his mouth thats all.

HHH smackdown promo completely exposed his ass. If he really wants change Why dont just retire his wrestling career and become a Writer for WWE or some shit?

Go make good storylines for mid carders and your douchebag friends if you think you are so frigging great. 

He keeps saying Zack ryder , i am big fan of Ryder but i dont want Ryder anywhere near the WWE title. Ryder is a comedy character and that is all he is.

and Tyson kidd?? really? really? really?? 
The guy looks like fucking midget. Even then WWE was pushing him , they broke up that hart dynasty and pushed this guy but yeah what do you know? fuckhead fails to get over as expected.

Who cares if tyson kidd is a good wrestler or even a great wrestler? Its not 1996 , that era has passed where people actually cared about wrestling. Now the question is what else can you offer besides wrestling? Tyson kid is a lucky motherfucker to still have a job in WWE.

and colt cabana? really punk ?? Why dont we hire the Entire R.O.H roster and make them champions? 

Divas division was a joke even during the attitude era. They are nothing more than eye candy , the fucking truth - deal with it!!!!


Both jack swagger & dolph ziggler have been world champions even before punk made this shoot promo. So how is it that WWE is not pushing them?? These two idiots failed to get over and thats WWE's fault?

I keep hearing bullshit after bullshit from Punk. Last night he says WWE held him down but when in reality WWE actually gave him everything he wanted from the start.

2 time Money in the bank Winner, 3 time world champion.

They gave him SES heel stable and when he was so over as a Heel,they made jeff hardy put punk over big time. But once jeff hardy retired , SES promos dragged and dragged on so badly that even hardcore punk marks were complaining.

His feud with Rey was good but he couldnt get over as the top heel of WWE at that time. Randy orton was the top heel! 

In 2010 they made him the leader of Nexus , it failed but the fact remains WWE never wanted to drop the ball with him. They could have easily Used someone else instead of punk to be the nexus leader on Raw but they chose Punk.

So technically whenever punk showed them his potential , WWE backed him up & when he failed ,they let him be. 

so how is he complaining that WWE "HELD" him down?? 

It looked like What he was actually asking Triple h was to main event Wrestlemania as soon as he debutted in WWE.

He wanted to receive cena's push from day one and this is where HHH said you cant coz cena got the top spot all by himself which you failed to do.

Punk seems to be always full of B.S. He is better fit as a heel , Just fucking drop the change bullshit, turn heel & fucking stick with it.


----------



## mblonde09 (Aug 15, 2009)

*Re: CM Punk is in a lose lose situation with the IWC*



Falkono said:


> Finally got around to watching this weeks Raw. After the past few weeks i not watched it live as it has been pretty dire to be honest.
> And yet again it was another dire RAW.
> At first Punk was interesting, it was cool. But *now it is plain to see he is miles out of his depth. HHH murdered him in the final segmant again. *
> 
> ...


You have no idea what you're talking about. Everything Punk said was true. HHH didn't murder him, HHH made himself look like a moron out there, because he was basically ignoring what Punk was saying and just tried to bury Punk - but the crowd weren't having it. Also there was one tool booing Punk and who gives a fuck about him. You know, I find a lot of Punk haters to be from England... makes me ashamed to be from the same country, tbh. 



Amsterdam said:


> The thing about CM Punk is this - he makes a perfect mid-carder, and a good main-eventer. Someone who deserves to be on TV every week, get a little bit of spotlight, and should win a world title every couple of years. *But he simply dosen't have what it takes to be the face of a brand, aka be in the main-event every week for months at a time. *
> 
> John Cena and *Randy Orton excel at it*. *Rey Mysterio and The Miz can pull it off. Hell, even Sheamus and Christian can do it* at this point.
> 
> ...


Orton, Miz, Sheamus? Are you serious? Punk has everything needed to be the face of a brand. Also, the ratings might be dropping, but that's not because of Punk - he gets the highest rated segments, which means people are tuning in to see him.


----------



## Belladonna29 (Nov 12, 2009)

kennedy=god said:


> Having skimmed through 'bits of this thread there seems to be absolutely no middle-ground at all here, and honestly i've actually seen barely any posts i completely agree with on here. First of all, anybody who thinks that Punk is going to pull an Austin and usher in some new boom period is, well, i'll be nice and say naive. There is pretty much no chance of that happening at all, he's still got an absolutely huge mountain to climb to get to where Cena was/is, let alone Austin. Comparing this to Stone Cold's early days as some have done (or were doing) is just plain stupid, everybody seems to do that anytime anybody even slightly charasmatic has a slight character tweak or turns face anyway.
> 
> 
> Second of all, anybody who thinks CM Punk and this whole angle that has come with it has had a negative impact and is somehow responsible for bad ratings is just plain wrong, no matter what you think of this HHH/Punk feud. The fact that this thread has nearly as many posts as the actual Raw discussion thread suggests that he has gained peoples interest, the fact that you see absolutely loads of Cm Punk shirts and signs at shows suggests that as well, the fact that he's been getting cheered over HHH (How often has that happened over the last 5 years?) suggests that and the fact that the "HHH CM Punk face off" being the main event of last nights show suggests that management know that CM Punk's push and his feud with HHH has been a success so far. Those that don't see that Punk has a big fan-base and is getting people's attention are blind.


I'd like to commend this post for making sense, having perspective and not being obnoxious or trollish in anyway. (Y)


----------



## HHH Mark (Jan 23, 2010)

I didn't like anything about this promo. When Punk said their real names and the mics got cut, the audience was groaning. Was it because they couldn't hear, or because of how lame doing this was? Perhaps, perhaps it's nice to pretend like they're breaking character once in a while (although I don't think so). But if they do this every week, god help them.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Mr.Broski said:


> nah HHH was carrying Punk throughout the promo.
> 
> HHH was the one who sold the PPV which is the promo should be about.
> 
> ...


Haha oh but Triple H wasn't sucking up to the crowf either, right capat? And what makes you think HHH had facts on his side when even the crowd called him out on what he was stating. HHH wasn't even in full gear till the match started getting talked about. HHH and Punk were great so nobody was carried. Get your head out of your own ass, capat.

Capat.

Capat.

Capat.


----------



## peowulf (Nov 26, 2006)

I'm pretty sure CM Punk is not really as unhappy as he sounds. They're just working the storyline. It's based on some truths, but it's still a storyline.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

I actually would have to say that maybe Punk was somewhat unhappy, especially being on cruise control before June all this year. Doesn't help the fact that after being a WHC the first time around, you were doing dark matches and second tier matches on PPV.


----------



## dgeneration-nexus (Jan 5, 2011)

Triple H and CM Punk are in my top 5 of all time. Unlike most, I'm not getting all wrapped up and invested in "who murder who on the mic" and am just looking forward to a series of potentially great matches.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Jesus Christ this thing has reached ridiculous levels. Are we really arguing over who _owned_ who in a promo? And you wonder why nobody wants to listen to internet fans. Any person from the WWE who came into this thread or even any sane person would no doubt just shake their head at the sheer fucking stupidity on display. I don't even know what to say anymore tbh. This place is going to be a nightmare come Sunday night. Thankfully, I won't be around to see the retarded bomb go off when the match is over. 

They both got their shots in at each other but when things started to go nowhere, it was HHH who took control and brought the promo back to what it should have been all about in the first place. The legion of Punks marks can deny that all they want but it's the truth. Trips took charge, he turned it up a notch and started to get personal and serious which was by far the best part of the whole thing. Punk responded in kind and we finally got a heated confrontation between the two instead of 10 minutes talking about bodybuilders, change, John Cena and fucking ice cream bars. 

I marked out at the intensity they both brought and Punk throwing in the real names was a nice touch for the smark in me. As for the regular fan in me, I didn't like the content of this promo one bit and they are both at fault. I was actually just waiting for one of them to come out and say that everything is predetermined at one point. I said it before but if this is what Punk and this so called reality era is all about, I don't like it at all. The fact is, Punk's current character isn't sustainable unless WWE move with him and right now they show no signs of doing that and I actually don't think that they should. We can't have everybody coming out every week and cutting promos like that. They are _dangerously_ close to the line here and it was something I've been worried about since the beginning of this whole thing. WWE needs change but it doesn't need to expose the fundamental point of it's entire show either. I understand that Punk wants change etc etc but I don't know if this is the right way to go about it anymore and especially not in the confines of this storyline which has actually turned into an absolute mess. The whole foundation of their match is 2 guys taking pot shots at each other because guy A doesn't like the guy B and feels he has done him wrong and guy B doesn't like the fact that guy A insulted his wife. What in the fuck are they talking about all that other stuff for then? It's completely irrelevant and just not needed. If they want to argue about it, do it in the back, not in front of the world.

As for the majority of those posting in this thread, you should all be embarrassed of yourselves. Bunch of fucking children who don't know what the hell they're talking about tbh.


----------



## elo (Oct 25, 2006)

The promos haven't done much for me personally, there's been no genuine progress due to the content being the same each week. (HHH even mentioned it with a "We are going in circles here" comment) I am fascinated to see where they go with the feud in the ring and post-match though, something spiteful needs to happen, one of them needs to go pure evil or something of the like.


----------



## Shazayum (Jan 4, 2010)

Yeah WWE looks for guys with a bodybuilder's physique but it's dumb to say that that's ONLY what they look for in top guys. What's wrong with looking for guys that look good and appeal to the masses, have a marketable look? Besides even if that was all they looked for, Jackson Andrews, Mason Ryan, Chris Masters and all the other big huge jacked up guys would be main eventing now. All the guys with bodybuilder's physique like Cena, they didn't push just cause they looked like that, they got pushed because they had something else that appealed to people.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

So an interesting promo no doubt, but I did think it's kind of lost me and I was sort of disappointed were they "seem" to be going, no doubt the power people keep changing their mind or whatnot and that obviously means Punk/Triple or whoever have to sometime change their argument to fit the direction (like Punk explaining why he came back which he did a good job of) and I think this promo felt similar and both guys had to change the direction which things were going. 

I just kind of don't get Punk's argument, he seems to have had my backing from the start and I was loving it but he seems to have gone all the way to were this all started when he's already conquered that. this all started with Punk wanting *Change*, this was from the top to the bottom and it made sense to me (someone who felt the product was stale) so it started with him, and that was proving that John Cena, the guy at the top who seems to have been their forever isn't the best and that he is instead the best in the world and move out of that Uppermidcarder/Main Event talent to Star status (so one the story needs this for it to gain viewers) and prove the guys running things are idiots. Bang, MITB conquers this, Punk wins the title, becomes a star, Vince is no longer the guy running things, he's made a start and is now in a position to smash down further doors (which their is potential for plenty) such as how talent OTHER THAN HIM (as he's already conquered it for himself and can now be the voice for the voiceless who don't have the status he's built for himself) aren't given the chances they deserve, how Raw is the same show it was 10 years ago with Triple H just the same as Vince, and Cena just the same as The Rock (Dwaaaaaaaayne as he calls him) and how he wants to make things better from top to bottom, so how about maybe challenging Triple H for co COO position or even the whole lot and then being in power to make those changes and having that play out with both of them implementing things, EI Triple H wants this, Punk says screw that and brings something new and shiny or whatever. that could play out for months or whatever to shift the show into a new direction with the storyline playing out at Mania.

I just don't get why Punk seems to have gone back to a point he conquered at MITB and in the grand scheme of things was only scratching the surface of the *Change* he wanted


----------



## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

As a fan, I enjoyed the segment. I do think Punk is getting lost and sidetracked and instead of being a rebel(like his character should be), he's become the White Obama and shit, talking about change. Change what? Punk's a main eventer, he's over with tons of folks, his shirt is selling out like shit. He should change his argument AFTER he fights HHH, which is the problem I have with HHH and Punk's feud. Its still all about Punk battling the "system" that he already beat and got over. I think WWE feels like it's far too early to abandon that part of the angle though. Im anxious to see what Punk does against Del Rio and Miz, guys like that


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Not really, Punk got himself over but that should just be the start of creating the Change he wants, he said it before Triple H is just the same as Vince and the "soul crushing status quo" remains.


----------



## cadburyjunkie (Aug 15, 2011)

blazegod99 said:


> As a fan, I enjoyed the segment. I do think Punk is getting lost and sidetracked and instead of being a rebel(like his character should be), he's become the White Obama and shit, talking about change. Change what? Punk's a main eventer, he's over with tons of folks, his shirt is selling out like shit. He should change his argument AFTER he fights HHH, which is the problem I have with HHH and Punk's feud. Its still all about Punk battling the "system" that he already beat and got over. I think WWE feels like it's far too early to abandon that part of the angle though. *Im anxious to see what Punk does against Del Rio and Miz, guys like that*


He beat Miz and Del Rio in back to back televised matches (sandwiching SummerSlam). And that's the point. Punk wants to prove that he's better than the establishment, he wants to beat the guy who buries everyone and the guy who has been pushed down the audience's throat ad infinitum. I know that it's a Catch-22, but who cares if he beats Miz, Truth or any other guy still trying to maintain a main event plateau?


----------



## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

cadburyjunkie said:


> He beat Miz and Del Rio in back to back televised matches (sandwiching SummerSlam). And that's the point. Punk wants to prove that he's better than the establishment, he wants to beat the guy who buries everyone and the guy who has been pushed down the audience's throat ad infinitum. I know that it's a Catch-22, but who cares if he beats Miz, Truth or any other guy still trying to maintain a main event plateau?


I meant IN A FEUD. Fuck a one-off match. If Punk is going to be a "rebel" face/tweener, he needs to go against something other than HHH/Cena/Vince(the trio of corporate LOL). 

Punk vs Miz would be something interesting since both are closely on the same thing. 

Punk vs Truth would be entertaining

Punk vs Del Rio is a logical step to me too. 

I cant wait to see Punk fight someone WHO'S NOT IN THE SYSTEM. I dont think it's gotten old honestly(his gimmick). Its just not relevant, since HHH has basically been painted as someone who's doing things that are good for business lol.

When will Punk be happy? When HHH is fired? Then who'll take over? Thats the thing that messes up the angle IMO. That's the only thing that does it. HHH/Punk's rivalry should've been based off HHH defending his family's honor instead of this.


----------



## Seanzie (Dec 11, 2008)

The problem is that most wrestling fans (both marks and smarks) don't really get what Punk's talking about. He's not just randomly saying the word "change."

Punk (and everyone who gets into storylines with him recently - Cena, Triple H, Nash) become a juxtaposition against the backdrop of the WWE and pro wrestling as a whole. They're straddling the line between the fake world of wrestling and the real lives of the performers. 

Punk's trying to change the way things are done in that respect. Obviously, WWE cannot ever admit that the matches have pre-determined outcomes. That would be idiotic, and it's the one veil that cannot be lifted. However, I think the WWE absolutely has to become more reality based in order to stay relevant and interesting. Why not bring up things like John Morrison and Melina's relationship? Why not have people (Miz/Truth) complain about pushes? Why not have Jerry Lawler say what everyone's thinking regarding McGillicuty and Otunga? It all works, and it all makes sense.

The only problem is the relatively unscripted promos that WWE seems to be going with. Not everyone is as charismatic as Punk, HHH and Cena. Look at Nash and ADR. Sure, they have natural presence and charisma, but their promos are awkward and repetitive by comparison.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

there is something wrong with HHH he said John Cena is the biggest star in this business, does he want cena fans to be with him in this thing, that's a cheap shot..
and triple h first said that punk was over and than he said your not over you need them (the fans), is he death they are chanting cm punk's name all the time,
and last year punk was heel how will he get the fans with him he suppose to be hated but still he got some chants in some city's last year..
and i want the ice cream bars its better than watching the divas wrestle, i will eat my ice cream and turn it in to a break time..

I think he should turn heel and give what the fans want "change" the show sucks, hes a legend he cant even draw im confused..


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brave Nash said:


> there is something wrong with HHH he said John Cena is the biggest star in this business, does he want cena fans to be with him in this thing, that's a cheap shot..
> and triple h first said that punk was over and than he said your not over you need them (the fans), is he death they are chanting cm punk's name all the time,
> and last year punk was heel how will he get the fans with him he suppose to be hated but still he got some chants in some city's last year..
> and i want the ice cream bars its better than watching the divas wrestle, i will eat my ice cream and turn it in to a break time..
> ...


I'll be honest, I don't get half of what your point is here. WTF are you trying to say?


----------



## Tombstoned (Dec 4, 2010)

Brave Nash said:


> there is something wrong with HHH he said John Cena is the biggest star in this business, does he want cena fans to be with him in this thing, that's a cheap shot..
> and triple h first said that punk was over and than he said your not over you need them (the fans), is he death they are chanting cm punk's name all the time,
> and last year punk was heel how will he get the fans with him he suppose to be hated but still he got some chants in some city's last year..
> and i want the ice cream bars its better than watching the divas wrestle, i will eat my ice cream and turn it in to a break time..
> ...


Since you've cut and pasted the question from the other thread I'll do the same with the answer I gave:

The thing is that HHH is ultimately going to be revealed as a huge hypocrite who actually has been trying to hold down Punk despite all his claims. That way theres a large pile of fuel for the ongoing feud after his heel turn.

As a side note, they are sowing little seeds of a Cena heel turn, but dont anyone get their hopes up of that happening before Punk is safely set in his face position.


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> They both got their shots in at each other but when things started to go nowhere, it was HHH who took control and brought the promo back to what it should have been all about in the first place. The legion of Punks marks can deny that all they want but it's the truth. Trips took charge, he turned it up a notch and started to get personal and serious which was by far the best part of the whole thing. Punk responded in kind and we finally got a heated confrontation between the two instead of 10 minutes talking about bodybuilders, change, John Cena and fucking ice cream bars.


The really dumb thing is, it was probably explicitly planned to happen like that. Punk wouldn't have felt the need to bring real names into it unless Trips got intense about stuff. If Punk wasn't bringing real names into it, the mics being cut wouldn't have worked. If the mics weren't cut, the sweet callback to Punk's 09 heel turn wouldn't have happened. The only people getting owned are the ones who think it was a genuine war of words.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I'll be honest, I don't get half of what your point is here. WTF are you trying to say?


Triple H = Contradictory.

John cena is the biggest star in this business really? what is he on drugs fpalm hes just trying to buried punk, he take everything personally he was wrong in the segment..
what opportunity? 
hes a big hypocrite hes obviously want to buried him. yeah keep mentioning the fans but they proved him wrong big fail..


----------



## CP Munk (Aug 13, 2011)

Brave Nash said:


> Triple H = Contradictory.
> 
> John cena is the biggest star in this business really? what is he on drugs fpalm hes just trying to buried punk, he take everything personally he was wrong in the segment..
> what opportunity?
> hes a big hypocrite hes obviously want to buried him. yeah keep mentioning the fans but they proved him wrong big fail..


But John cena is the biggest star in the business?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brave Nash said:


> Triple H = Contradictory.
> 
> John cena is the biggest star in this business really? what is he on drugs fpalm hes just trying to buried punk, he take everything personally he was wrong in the segment..
> what opportunity?
> hes a big hypocrite hes obviously want to buried him. yeah keep mentioning the fans but they proved him wrong big fail..


Are you trying to say that Cena _isn't_ the biggest star in the business? Because if you are then it might be wise for me to quit while I'm ahead. Lol if you think he was taking anything Punk said personally. The guy has been getting ragged on for almost a decade now. Punk isn't the first and he sure as hell won't be the last to talk about this stuff. Seems to me like you're the one getting butthurt.


----------



## Pillzmayn (Apr 7, 2011)

The bit where HHH went hulk on Punk was good but the rest of his promo he owned himself. When he tried to get the crowd behind him with Cena he got booed.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> *Are you trying to say that Cena isn't the biggest star in the business?* Because if you are then it might be wise for me to quit while I'm ahead. Lol if you think he was taking anything Punk said personally. The guy has been getting ragged on for almost a decade now. Punk isn't the first and he sure as hell won't be the last to talk about this stuff. Seems to me like you're the one getting butthurt.


fpalmfpalm 8*D8*D


----------



## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

Re-watched HHH's part of the promo and it did seem that HHH didnt want to acknowledge that CM Punk has turned WWE upside down. If a rapper(even though it is Papoose LOL) uses a line from your promo in his song, you're big. 

HHH took years to get over and he has a lot of people to thank for him getting over(not hating on HHH, I'm a fan of the dude, but lets be honest). HHH has to thank The Kliq, HBK(without him, HHH would still be a greenwich snob LOL, although im sure he would changed his character by now), The Mcmahons(Steph specifically), etc....

CM Punk went out there, spoke his mind and in one night became a huge draw


----------



## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

kennedy=god said:


> Having skimmed through 'bits of this thread there seems to be absolutely no middle-ground at all here, and honestly i've actually seen barely any posts i completely agree with on here. First of all, anybody who thinks that Punk is going to pull an Austin and usher in some new boom period is, well, i'll be nice and say naive. There is pretty much no chance of that happening at all, he's still got an absolutely huge mountain to climb to get to where Cena was/is, let alone Austin. Comparing this to Stone Cold's early days as some have done (or were doing) is just plain stupid, everybody seems to do that anytime anybody even slightly charasmatic has a slight character tweak or turns face anyway.
> 
> 
> Second of all, anybody who thinks CM Punk and this whole angle that has come with it has had a negative impact and is somehow responsible for bad ratings is just plain wrong, no matter what you think of this HHH/Punk feud. The fact that this thread has nearly as many posts as the actual Raw discussion thread suggests that he has gained peoples interest, the fact that you see absolutely loads of Cm Punk shirts and signs at shows suggests that as well, the fact that he's been getting cheered over HHH (How often has that happened over the last 5 years?) suggests that and the fact that the "HHH CM Punk face off" being the main event of last nights show suggests that management know that CM Punk's push and his feud with HHH has been a success so far. Those that don't see that Punk has a big fan-base and is getting people's attention are blind.



First, I completely agree with your second point. Second, I never said he would usher in a new boom period, what my point was is that this new push they're giving Punk is to make him the face of the reality era. I didn't compare Punk to SCSA, I compared the state of the WWE now, to the time where Austin cut his 360 promo. It took Austin a while to become the face of the company, just like its going to take Punk. The only connection I make between the two is the fact that they are both were and are going to be the faces of a new era in the WWE. Whether or not the reality era becomes a boom period is yet to be seen. Frankly, I don't think we'll ever get another boom period, due to how many things you can watch/do now a days with the internet and everything. That being said, I do think there is plenty of room to grow, and its my opinion that CM Punk, Triple H and the reality era philosophy will help to bring that growth to fruition.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brave Nash said:


> fpalmfpalm 8*D8*D


So you are saying that Cena isn't the biggest star in the business today? Alright then, facepalm all you want. You're still wrong. 



blazegod99 said:


> Re-watched HHH's part of the promo and it did seem that HHH didnt want to acknowledge that CM Punk has turned WWE upside down. If a rapper(even though it is Papoose LOL) uses a line from your promo in his song, you're big.
> 
> HHH took years to get over and he has a lot of people to thank for him getting over(not hating on HHH, I'm a fan of the dude, but lets be honest). HHH has to thank The Kliq, HBK(without him, HHH would still be a greenwich snob LOL, although im sure he would changed his character by now), The Mcmahons(Steph specifically), etc....
> 
> CM Punk went out there, spoke his mind and in one night became a huge draw


Punk hasn't turned WWE upside down. They had the chance to do that and didn't move the company with him. I've never heard of Papoose in my life. Trips paid his dues, worked his way through the midcard and when he finally got his first proper shot at the main event, he took it and never looked back. Punk went out there, spoke his mind, created a super hot angle, took what some might say was his first real shot at the main event and hasn't looked back since. Calling him a draw at this stage is just plain wrong tbh. Outside of his t-shirts he hasn't done a damn thing.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> So you are saying that Cena isn't the biggest star in the business *today*? Alright then, facepalm all you want. You're still wrong.


oh thats what triple h should say he said hes the biggest not one of the biggest big difference fpalm he should say it to make the feud look good and perfect not only in this point even the rest of the points hes wrong and hes delusional too..


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brave Nash said:


> oh thats what triple h should say he said hes the biggest not one of the biggest big difference fpalm he should say it to make the feud look good and perfect not only in this point even the rest of the points hes wrong and hes delusional too..


But he _is_ the biggest. You aren't making sense. Then again, what should I expect from somebody who can't even fucking type properly.


----------



## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> So you are saying that Cena isn't the biggest star in the business today? Alright then, facepalm all you want. You're still wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Punk hasn't turned WWE upside down. They had the chance to do that and didn't move the company with him. I've never heard of Papoose in my life. Trips paid his dues, worked his way through the midcard and when he finally got his first proper shot at the main event, he took it and never looked back. Punk went out there, spoke his mind, created a super hot angle, took what some might say was his first real shot at the main event and hasn't looked back since. Calling him a draw at this stage is just plain wrong tbh. Outside of his t-shirts he hasn't done a damn thing.


MITB draws and constant T shirts sales = draw. It damn sure aint ratings cause Cena hasnt drew ratings like that ever


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> But he _is_ the biggest. You aren't making sense. Then again, what should I expect from somebody who can't even fucking type properly.



fpalmfpalm 8*D8*D please stop are u in drugs, is he bigger than the rock is he bigger than stone cold ? they can let all the fans be with them, cena he cant what so ever if hes bigger than them he need to prove it he cant draw look at the show "ratings" hes boring in the mic he make no sense at times..

and the biggest star my ass he cant wrestle for shit hes just an overrated bitch, you make no sense he cant draw triple h too its embarrassing hes a legend and cant bring viewers he suck as a COO he didnt change anything he keeps wanting to be over becoz of his ego 
he buried talents = boring show..


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

blazegod99 said:


> MITB draws and constant T shirts sales = draw. It damn sure aint ratings cause Cena hasnt drew ratings like that ever


I'm not about to get into a Punk drawing debate here but he hasn't really moved anything business wise apart from his merchandise. MITB went up but it wasn't anything spectacular. He draws on TV when he's in there with a proven draw. When he's on his own he gets nothing. The potential is most definitely there and if they pull their heads out of their asses, actually pick a direction for this storyline to go in and push him consistently he'll most likely get there. Right now however his impact has been nothing but average. 



Brave Nash said:


> fpalmfpalm 8*D8*D please stop are u in drugs, is he bigger than the rock is he bigger than stone cold ? they can let all the fans be with them, cena he cant what so ever if hes bigger than them he need to prove it he cant draw look at the show "ratings" hes boring in the mic he make no sense at times..
> 
> and the biggest star my ass he cant wrestle for shit hes just an overrated bitch, you make no sense he cant draw triple h too its embarrassing hes a legend and cant bring viewers he suck as a COO he didnt change anything he keeps wanting to be over becoz of his ego
> he buried talents = boring show..


Yeah, I'm done wasting my time with you. Fucking idiot.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I'm not about to get into a Punk drawing debate here but he hasn't really moved anything business wise apart from his merchandise. MITB went up but it wasn't anything spectacular. He draws on TV when he's in there with a proven draw. When he's on his own he gets nothing. The potential is most definitely there and if they pull their heads out of their asses, actually pick a direction for this storyline to go in and push him consistently he'll most likely get there. Right now however his impact has been nothing but average.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'm done wasting my time with you. Fucking idiot.


John cena is bigger than the rock. yeah you're right im a big fucking idiot.. why im talking to an idiot like you really you make no sense at all..


----------



## Triple Naitch (Sep 14, 2011)

blazegod99 said:


> MITB draws and constant T shirts sales = draw. It damn sure aint ratings cause *Cena hasnt drew ratings like that ever*


Who do you think is holding the Ratings above 3 every week genius??


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brave Nash said:


> John cena is bigger than the rock. yeah you're right im a big fucking idiot.. why im talking to an idiot like you really you make no sense at all..


I'm actually rather impressed that you managed to get the apostrophe in there for the _you're_ tbh. Well done. You're still an idiot though.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

Starbuck you really think that john cena is a bigger star than the rock or stone cold? 
hahaha yeah why not everything trips says i should agree with it 

and by the way its Starbucks im a big fucking idiot right spell it right ..


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> I'm not about to get into a Punk drawing debate here but he hasn't really moved anything business wise apart from his merchandise. MITB went up but it wasn't anything spectacular. He draws on TV when he's in there with a proven draw. When he's on his own he gets nothing. The potential is most definitely there and if they pull their heads out of their asses, actually pick a direction for this storyline to go in and push him consistently he'll most likely get there. Right now however his impact has been nothing but average.


Punk is a draw, but he's an odd one. He's a huge draw on the microphone, but not when it comes to matches unless he's in there with someone big. It truthfully is unexplainable that two out of the three times he was in the 10pm timeslot wrestling, the match had way under the average number of increased viewers. I remember for his one with Del Rio, that night as a whole was an odd night for numbers as segments that normally wouldn't draw did, and vice-versa. However when he faced Miz, I just don't know what happened. 

If anything, Punk is a half-draw... if there is such a thing. His segments draw amazingly, whether he's on his own (from that I remember) or in there with a proven draw (although he hasn't done a segment on his own in forever), but when it comes to matches people just don't care to see him wrestle, although the buzz he created for MITB gave quite an increase to the show from the previous year's.

I don't know. Punk is a half draw, odd draw, incomplete draw, but he's not not a draw, and he's not the biggest draw either, yet.

The thing is though, his matches with Cena were two of the best matches of the year... if that can't get people to watch him wrestle on a consistent basis, unless he has better matches with HHH (which I can't see happening in all honesty at this stage of HHH's career), then I don't know what will.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^ That's my point too. I'm not ready to call him a draw yet because he kind of isn't. At the same time and especially when he's talking, he kind of is lol. I'll stick with calling him a work in progress for the minute. For me, drawing isn't just merchandise. You have to tick all 4 boxes; merchandise, ratings, PPV buys and live gate attendance. Currently Punk is flying regarding merch, he's hit and miss with ratings, he's made a small bump on PPV buys that we know so far but hasn't made a dent on live gate attendance. So yeah, he's a work in progress for me. 




Brave Nash said:


> Starbuck you really think that john cena is a bigger star than the rock or stone cold?
> hahaha yeah why not everything trips says i should agree with it
> 
> and by the way its Starbucks im a big fucking idiot right spell it right ..


Rock and Austin aren't on the regular roster incase you haven't noticed. 

:lmao at that last part. Maybe just maybe I'm not talking about coffee. Jesus fucking Christ. Just go away.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Rock and Austin aren't on the regular roster incase you haven't noticed.
> 
> :lmao at that last part. Maybe just maybe I'm not talking about coffee. Jesus fucking Christ. Just go away.


what do you want me to do your name make me laugh so hard . starbuck really? hahahaaha, what are you obsessed with Starbucks what kind of a name is that :evil:..


----------



## Triple Naitch (Sep 14, 2011)

PipeBomb!!!!1!!!! has run its course.

Punk aint a draw on the mic anymore. 

Pipebomb is What got him over but the same pipebomb has turned him into a whiny bitch. 

sad but true.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brave Nash said:


> what do you want me to do your name make me laugh so hard . starbuck really? hahahaaha, what are you obsessed with Starbucks what kind of a name is that :evil:..


Oh dear lord. Yes. Yes I'm obsessed with coffee. There you go.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> ^^^^ That's my point too. I'm not ready to call him a draw yet because he kind of isn't. At the same time and especially when he's talking, he kind of is lol. I'll stick with calling him a work in progress for the minute. For me, drawing isn't just merchandise. You have to tick all 4 boxes; merchandise, ratings, PPV buys and live gate attendance. Currently Punk is flying regarding merch, he's hit and miss with ratings, he's made a small bump on PPV buys that we know so far but *hasn't made a dent on live gate attendance.* So yeah, he's a work in progress for me. .


I have to ask, how do you know this? Is there a site that gives this information out, or are you just guessing? I've heard a lot of talk about live gate attendance in the past, but never have seen numbers myself, nor know where to look.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

EBboy™;10313265 said:


> I have to ask, how do you know this? Is there a site that gives this information out, or are you just guessing? I've heard a lot of talk about live gate attendance in the past, but never have seen numbers myself, nor know where to look.


It's on corporate if you go looking for it. Comes out in their financial reports too. Usually when they release quarterly information there is a link that takes you right to the document where everything is listed. I'm sure of you go on corporate and look around you'll be able to find the info. 

EDIT - There are also the little reports that come out every now and then too.


----------



## Smoogle (Dec 20, 2008)

so are some people thinking that both CM PUNK and TRIPLE HHH are going to get their ass whoop by some outsiders


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Triple Naitch said:


> PipeBomb!!!!1!!!! has run its course.
> 
> Punk aint a draw on the mic anymore.
> 
> ...


lolcapat

As for the Punk being a draw issue, I think it's too early to write him off. I think it'll show once this feud hits it's climax if they plan on doing so. If he becomes an official face and Trips is the heel, then we'll know. As of right now his merch is selling great, PPV buys for MITB went up and ratings have been hovering. But with ratings, unless they're ridiculously low I wouldn't really think anything of it considering that the ratings have gone nowhere in years.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> It's on corporate if you go looking for it. Comes out in their financial reports too. Usually when they release quarterly information there is a link that takes you right to the document where everything is listed. I'm sure of you go on corporate and look around you'll be able to find the info.
> 
> EDIT - There are also the little reports that come out every now and then too.


Went though it a bit, and I have to ask, aren't those numbers for the second quarter (which go pretty much right up to when Punk cuts that promo)? Won't we have to wait until October for Q3 report to see just how he does with live gate attendance? Or am I looking at the wrong thing entirely?


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

House shows are down, merchandise sales are down, so the impact from his shirts is not big.
without a proven draw he lost viewers, and even when he gain it's nothing special because the total viewership is down.
Punk is clearly not a draw.


> The Raw July decrease is
> notable because July was the month with all the C.M. Punk stuff at its peak, and
> while the PPV was up from the prior year (although that number was also at the
> time one of the lower numbers ever), house shows (many of which were
> ...


----------



## Pillzmayn (Apr 7, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> ^^^^ That's my point too. I'm not ready to call him a draw yet because he kind of isn't. At the same time and especially when he's talking, he kind of is lol. I'll stick with calling him a work in progress for the minute. For me, drawing isn't just merchandise. You have to tick all 4 boxes; merchandise, ratings, PPV buys and live gate attendance. Currently Punk is flying regarding merch, he's hit and miss with ratings, he's made a small bump on PPV buys that we know so far but *hasn't made a dent on live gate attendance*. So yeah, he's a work in progress for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


People won't pay to see one wrestler for 10 minutes and 1h50 of complete crap.


----------



## rawesjericho (Sep 9, 2008)

obviously punk isnt a draw, but neither is triple h


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## Triple Naitch (Sep 14, 2011)

rawesjericho said:


> obviously punk isnt a draw, but neither is triple h


Neither is Jericho lol

and actually if you consider now Punk and Trips both are way bigger draw than jericho.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Rock316AE said:


> House shows are down, merchandise sales are down, so the impact from his shirts is not big.
> without a proven draw he lost viewers, and even when he gain it's nothing special because the total viewership is down.
> Punk is clearly not a draw.


I see a quote but not a source. May I have the link to that please? 



> People won't pay to see one wrestler for 10 minutes and 1h50 of complete crap.


This is true as well. One guy can headline a show, but if the rest of the show sucks and that one guy isn't a Rock/Austin/Hogan draw, I'm sure the event won't do as well as it could. Now if the product as a whole is good, outside the main event, like in 2000 for example, then people will find the show worth to come and see it... although 2000 did have Rock.

But yeah, it's the same reason you can't blame Punk for the ratings not increasing.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

of course jericho is a draw
didn't he win dancing with the stars, all his fans rooted for him


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## rawesjericho (Sep 9, 2008)

Triple Naitch said:


> Neither is Jericho lol
> 
> and actually if you consider now Punk and Trips both are way bigger draw than jericho.


lol punk is a nobody compared to jericho. triple h is not a bigger draw than jericho, he always main events because he is wife of owner's daughter not because he is a draw.


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## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

The beauty of the CM Punk mic check was how accurately it reflected what he said earlier: "I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not." It was highlighting the fakeness of traditional faces and heels (no duh I know, but still.) Normally if a guy whomped someone over the head with a mic, especially a legend like Trips, they'd be booed out of the arena and insulting live crowds before you could say 'heel turn'. Yet the show closed with people chanting his name. 


Pillzmayn said:


> People won't pay to see one wrestler for 10 minutes and *1h50 of complete crap.*


lolyestheydo. And not just me either. For what it's worth, I've seen a lot of 'going to see CM Punk' sort of feelings. The thing is it's not just tumbleweed for the rest of it. The other guys do put on a show. And that has to be taken into consideration (the WWE name being a draw)


----------



## EspartacusHughes (Sep 9, 2011)

You fucking people talking about this only from a business pov are pathetic. Does anybody even cares about wrestling anymore?

CM Punk is the biggest thing in WWE because people chant his name EVERY NIGHT, they cheer for him, they respect him and he has the dirt sheets behind him. He's a fucking amazing wrestler and he's overcoming the retarded booking, the omnipresence of Cena and the arrogance of HHH and Vince. 

What he has done is basically make wrestling relevant again in it's worst era.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

source, wrestling observer.

Jericho is a bigger draw, not even close.


----------



## Triple Naitch (Sep 14, 2011)

rawesjericho said:


> lol punk is a nobody compared to jericho. triple h is not a bigger draw than jericho, he always main events because he is wife of owner's daughter not because he is a draw.



I am fan of Jericho but to say he is draw is absolutely idiotic. Go watch his 2007 return.

Triple h is a proven draw. punk is getting there.

argument closed.


----------



## rawesjericho (Sep 9, 2008)

Triple Naitch said:


> [b6d59e6f.jpg[/img][/url]
> 
> I am fan of Jericho but to say he is draw is absolutely idiotic. Go watch his 2007 return.
> 
> ...


lol wtf has triple h done in his various returns? steph's bitchhh isnt a draw, get over it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Rock316AE said:


> source, wrestling observer.
> 
> Jericho is a bigger draw, not even close.


Once again, I'd like a link, please.

TBH though, even if it is on the observer, I'll wait until the financials come out for Q3.



> You fucking people talking about this only from a business pov are pathetic. Does anybody even cares about wrestling anymore?
> 
> CM Punk is the biggest thing in WWE because people chant his name EVERY NIGHT, they cheer for him, they respect him and he has the dirt sheets behind him. He's a fucking amazing wrestler and he's overcoming the retarded booking, the omnipresence of Cena and the arrogance of HHH and Vince.
> 
> What he has done is basically make wrestling relevant again in it's worst era.


I ask myself this everytime I get involved in one of these threads/debates, and you know what I say to myself?

"If you can't beat'em, join'em!"

So yeah, I participate, but I'm not going to let other members of the IWC ruin my perception on something or my enjoyment because of numbers or figures. It's interesting to see how the general audience is perceiving this as it relates to myself. But I don't take it to heart.

In any event, I agree with you, Punk is the best thing in WWE at the moment, and he (not the angle, not HHH, not Cena, not Nash, not Stephanie) is why I watch Raw more than anything (with SD there's Christian, Barrett, D. Bryan, etc.), but not everyone sees it that way.


----------



## Triple Naitch (Sep 14, 2011)

rawesjericho said:


> lol wtf has triple h done in his various returns? steph's bitchhh isnt a draw, get over it.


Wrestlemania 21 - 1.09 Million buys - HHH vs Batista.

WM 21 is the second highest bought PPV ever. 

Wm 23 with donald trump is first and WM 27 with The Rock is third.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

EBboy
no link cuz it was in the newsletter

here is a screen cap 









8*D
tna


----------



## Triple Naitch (Sep 14, 2011)

LOL TNA Still using RVD for main events.

That guy never drew a dime in his entire career.

pathetic piece of crap RVD.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Triple Naitch said:


> *Wrestlemania 21 - 1.09 Million buys - HHH vs Batista.*
> 
> WM 21 is the second highest bought PPV ever.
> 
> Wm 23 with donald trump is first and WM 27 with The Rock is third.


Where do you get that? I could have sworn it was:

1) WM23 (Donald Trump, Taker/Batista, HBK/Cena)
2) WM24 (Floyd Mayweather, Taker/Edge, Flair/HBK)
3) WM27 (Rock's Return, Taker/HHH)

According to the corporate site, WM21 got over 900k buys, but not a million. 

WM21 also had Hogan being promoted, Austin being promoted with Roddy Piper, and HBK/Angle to go along and support Batista/HHH.



> EBboy
> no link cuz it was in the newsletter
> 
> here is a screen cap
> ...


Thanks for that.

In any event, I stand by what I said before.


----------



## Triple Naitch (Sep 14, 2011)

EBboy™;10313547 said:


> *Where do you get that?* I could have sworn it was:
> 
> 1) WM23 (Donald Trump, Taker/Batista, HBK/Cena)
> 2) *WM24 (Floyd Mayweather, Taker/Edge, Flair/HBK)*
> ...



Wrestling observer. 

lol WM 24 biggest draw was the main event Randy vs cena vs HHH. you conveniently leave out the main event.

Taker/Shawn Main event of WM 26 drew the worst buys since 1997.

HHH is bigger draw than Taker.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Triple Naitch said:


> Wrestling observer.
> 
> lol WM 24 biggest draw was the main event Randy vs cena vs HHH. you conveniently leave out the main event.
> 
> ...


lol, wow, that worked like a charm. Got you hook, line, and sinker. Obviously you're one of those HHH marks who gets pissed anytime someone mentions someone not named Rock, Austin, or Hogan as a bigger draw than HHH. 

In any event, yeah, Orton/CENA/Triple H was a bigger draw than Taker/Edge, but which was prominently featured on the A-show? Which was had Cena in it, the biggest draw of this era indisputably? And it wasn't the biggest draw at all. HBK/Flair has a fair argument for being a bigger draw, and then there's Floyd Mayweather, who was the biggest draw of the show. The two title matches weren't on the same level as those two.

As far as Taker/HBK being the main draw of WM26, what about Cena/Batista? The two biggest stars of this era and two of the biggest stars of all time failed to draw, as much as the year prior, which had Taker/HBK I and Orton/HHH as the biggest draws.

I think it goes to show build up does matter.  WM21 also proves this as well. With a great build up to get the fans excited, you can make the best out of a bad situation. That's what WM21 and 25's main events have in common. Now if there is a huge celebrity headlining Mania, well, that goes out the window.

Edit: Oh, also, Taker/Edge was the main event, not the triple threat, so you're wrong there to.


----------



## Triple Naitch (Sep 14, 2011)

EBboy™ said:


> lol, wow, that worked like a charm. Got you hook, line, and sinker. Obviously you're one of those HHH marks who gets pissed anytime someone mentions someone not named Rock, Austin, or Hogan as a bigger draw than HHH.
> 
> In any event, yeah, *Orton/CENA/Triple H was a bigger draw than Taker/Edge, but which was prominently featured on the A-show? *Which was had Cena in it, the biggest draw of this era indisputably? And it wasn't the biggest draw at all. HBK/Flair has a fair argument for being a bigger draw, and then there's Floyd Mayweather, who was the biggest draw of the show. The two title matches weren't on the same level as those two.
> 
> ...


Double standards. Totally contradicting yourself.


Taker and Hbk as great a legend they are , they can never draw big numbers. The streak was a draw only when shawn challenged it. 


i dont know whats your point here to be honest.

ofcourse hogan, Austin, rock are bigger draws than HHH but only at their prime. 

now in 2011 HHH comes next to the rock in the list. 

This should explain everything, source - wrestling observer.
This list is from 2008.

Cena might be higher right now.



> Dave Meltzer has compiled a lost of the *top 54 biggest draws* in WWE history based on gates/ratings the wrestlers drew as main eventers.
> 
> 1. BRUNO SAMMARTINO
> 
> ...


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Triple Naitch said:


> Double standards. Totally contradicting yourself.
> 
> 
> Taker and Hbk as great a legend they are , they can never draw big numbers. The streak was a draw only when shawn challenged it.
> ...


That's an interesting list. It's funny HHH and Taker are so high, but yet not as big draws as Austin and Rock in reality. Meltzer explains why. That list basically states how much they have drawn throughout their entire careers, not how much drawing power they actually have. HHH was on top in 2000, and that certainly helped his numbers, not only headlining with The Rock, but the product as a whole was arguably at it's best. Taker, despite the fact he's always been a huge star, only had stints in the main event and then played in the lower main event with guys like Orton, Henry, Khali, Kennedy, etc. There's a lot more to why a show draws than just the guy who headlines it. Plus HHH main evented consistently from 1999-mid2000, from mid-2002- when he was injured on 2007 (he was arguably still the main point of the show with DX against McMahons), and then in 2008 he was consistently in the main event. I can't count how many years Taker has been in the main event, but since 2007 when he started seriously competing for the World Title, he was out for several months in 2007, out for a few months in 2008, and 2009/2010 are self explanatory. 

Which is why you can't use that list to justify HHH as the bigger draw, someone who would draw more attention if he was having a show in one building, and Taker was having a show in another. Because we both know if Rock had a show at that same time in a completely different building, most would flock there because he's the biggest draw of them, yet HHH and Taker have drawn more through their entire careers. It's all a matter of how much one is in the main event.

HHH is a big draw though, because he wouldn't be number 6 on the list if he wasn't. Taker is also a big draw to, because despite him being there for 18 years, he wasn't headlining 18 of those years... I wouldn't even say he was headlining half of that, or a quarter of that (although don't hold me to that), but he's still number 7.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

I love how people look at lists as definitive facts when any list like that *always* have a bias towards them.


----------



## Triple Naitch (Sep 14, 2011)

HHH main evented raw and taker main evented Smackdown because both of them are draws but HHH is bigger draw.

dont forget smackdown and raw used to had seperate PPVS.

and the reason HHH is much bigger draw than taker is coz he is more talented, he is great on the mic like last night, he is versatile with his gimmick. People love him. 

Taker's gimmick has been stale since 2003. 

and btw by june 2006 HHH sidelined himself with DX reunion. Cena became the main event.


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

Brave Nash said:


> fpalmfpalm 8*D8*D please stop are u in drugs, is he bigger than the rock is he bigger than stone cold ? they can let all the fans be with them, cena he cant what so ever if hes bigger than them he need to prove it he cant draw look at the show "ratings" hes boring in the mic he make no sense at times..
> 
> and the biggest star my ass he cant wrestle for shit hes just an overrated bitch, you make no sense he cant draw triple h too its embarrassing hes a legend and cant bring viewers he suck as a COO he didnt change anything he keeps wanting to be over becoz of his ego
> he buried talents = boring show..


At their peak, Rock and Austin were able to draw more than Cena has ever done.

But enough with that he can't wrestle crap and he's overrated shit. Is he Bret Hart? No, but Cena can damn sure wrestle (although selling is a bit of a problem) and I, and millions of other people, enjoy watching his matches. The reason WWE doesn't have the balls to take away Cena from the main event is because nobody is close to his drawing power.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Just be honest and say he's a better wrestler than Rock.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Top 5 PPV buyrates of all time (domestic)
1. WM17 - Rock vs Austin - 1,040,000
2. WM18 - Rock vs Hogan - 840,000
3. WM16 - Rock vs Foley vs HHH vs Show - 824,000
4. WM15 - Rock vs Austin - 800,000
5. WM23 - Trump vs Vince - 768,000


----------



## yourmumsface17 (Jan 23, 2009)

Triple Naitch said:


> HHH main evented raw and taker main evented Smackdown because both of them are draws but HHH is bigger draw.
> 
> dont forget smackdown and raw used to had seperate PPVS.
> 
> ...


How can you say that? Undertaker has consistently put on some of the best matches and been apart of the most legendary angles. He was given an absolute ridiculous gimmick and turned it into gold.

Seriously HHH fans are as insecure about HHH's place as HHH himself is.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Triple Naitch said:


> HHH main evented raw and taker main evented Smackdown because both of them are draws but HHH is bigger draw.
> 
> dont forget smackdown and raw used to had seperate PPVS.
> 
> ...


Okay, you added nothing, besides your opinions, which are your opinions and that's fine, but here are mine:

Taker is much better in the ring, has had two better gimmicks than HHH ever had, is 100 times the face HHH ever was/is, and HHH is only a little bit better than Taker on the mic. The thing is, HHH is extremely overrated on the mic, and Taker is underrated, but they are both great mic workers. Taker is indisputably the bigger superstar, was the bigger superstar every year of HHH's career minus a portion of 2000 and most of 2003. All that is why he is the bigger draw, even though he's been on the B-show the last 9 years while HHH has been on the A-show the last 8 years, when it could have very well been the other way around.

See, I can type opinions to. In the words of HHH from Raw, "We're just running in circles".



> Top 5 PPV buyrates of all time (domestic)
> 1. WM17 - Rock vs Austin - 1,040,000
> 2. WM18 - Rock vs Hogan - 840,000
> 3. WM16 - Rock vs Foley vs HHH vs Show - 824,000
> ...


Obviously this proves Rock can't draw shit. hope you don't think I'm serious.


----------



## Triple Naitch (Sep 14, 2011)

yourmumsface17 said:


> How can you say that? Undertaker has consistently put on some of the best matches and been apart of the most legendary angles. He was given an absolute ridiculous gimmick and turned it into gold.
> 
> Seriously HHH fans are as insecure about HHH's place as HHH himself is.


Undertaker is one of the most protected guys by wwe.

they give the right booking protecting his gimmick.

If you read jericho's book, the reason he states for the failure of his "King of the world" gimmick is bad booking by WWE.

He wanted to run with it but they never gave him the opportunity to.

so no taker didnt turn anything into gold.

but he is a legend in the company, i respect him.


----------



## Triple Naitch (Sep 14, 2011)

EBboy™;10313891 said:


> Okay, you added nothing, besides your opinions, which are your opinions and that's fine, but here are mine:
> 
> Taker is much better in the ring, has had two better gimmicks than HHH ever had, is 100 times the face HHH ever was/is, and HHH is only a little bit better than Taker on the mic. The thing is, *HHH is extremely overrated on the mic, and Taker is underrated, *but they are both great mic workers. Taker is indisputably the bigger superstar, was the bigger superstar every year of HHH's career minus a portion of 2000 and most of 2003. All that is why he is the bigger draw, even though he's been on the B-show the last 9 years while HHH has been on the A-show the last 8 years, when it could have very well been the other way around.
> 
> See, I can type opinions to. In the words of HHH from Raw, "We're just running in circles".


we are not running in circles... you are blind by the hatred towards HHH.

even after last night's promo you tell me HHH is overrated on the mic??? 

So by your standards Punk is also overrated on the mic right??

I dont know why i am arguing with your ignorance anymore.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

It's called an opinion. Maybe if you took off your Motorhead tinted glasses, you would try to debate him on it rather than pull the capat card, capat.


----------



## yourmumsface17 (Jan 23, 2009)

Triple Naitch said:


> Undertaker is one of the most protected guys by wwe.
> 
> they give the right booking protecting his gimmick.
> 
> ...


Troll?

Undertaker was given a gimmick and he has made it into a legacy. 

All these things you are spouting all apply to HHH. BTW why did Jericho's gimmick fail? Because he was forced to job to HHH... what a suprise.

Jeez you go on about protective booking, look at HHH's entire career, he must be the only superstar to have made it banned to show him in a 'vulnerable state' in WWE Smackdown v Raw video game previews/reviews.

He came sooo close to beating the streak, even closer than HBK, you could argue Taker was shown as being quite lucky to beat him. 

He has so much protective booking it's unreal, so don't use that as an argument to criticse Undertakers achievements. By your logic HHH is only where he is because of his booking and not his talent, which is BS because HHH is obviously very talented.

End of the day the only thing I object to is you saying HHH is miles more talented than Taker which is NOT true (that's not to take anything away from HHH).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Triple Naitch said:


> we are not running in circles... you are blind by the hatred towards HHH.
> 
> even after last night's promo you tell me HHH is overrated on the mic???
> 
> ...


:lmao

Punk>>>>>>>>>>HHH on the mic, IN MY OPINION (of course you don't understand what that means).

Believe it or not, I'm one of the fairest guys as it relates to HHH that I've seen, not to tout my own horn. I'm not a mark for the guy, but I don't hate him, at all. But I do think his talents get overrated from time to time by his marks, which, hey, is fair enough. It's why they'd mark for him after all.

It's funny, you mention Taker being one of the most protected guys by WWE in a rebuttal against someone putting Taker over HHH, when HHH is just as protected, and has been since 2000. And before you say anything, no, I'm not hating HHH when I say that, I'm simply stating how it is. You're right Taker is very protective, but so is HHH, and it's why guys like Lesnar and Batista ended up being such a success. Because when Taker put over Lesnar, and HHH put over Batista, it took those guys to a new level. Lesnar became the biggest star of the company after Taker put him over, and likewise with Batista, and had Taker and HHH not been protected, for all those years, it wouldn't have went as well.

So yeah, they're protected, but for the better of the business. Unfortunately sometimes there are... "casualties" (burials) that comes with that occasionally, but what can you do? Nothing's perfect.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

The main flaw of Meltzer's draw-ranking system is that it hinges a bit too heavily in favor of how many shows you've headlined over all else. Which is why, back in 2008, when that list came out, Randy Orton somehow found himself tied with Dave Batista in terms of drawing power, when that suggestion, real-world, is laughable. Between Batista's injuries and breaks and Orton being so consistently overpushed into main events, by Meltzer's scheme, they find themselves tied up with one another. Yet WWE's own financial reports will rather quite bluntly buttress just how huge Batista was for them as a drawing powerhouse, while Orton's impact on business is, almost invariably, insubstantial and modest at best. 

As far as Triple H/Undertaker goes, there's little doubt how much more crucial Triple H has been for the company in terms of both singular drawing power and in fostering the advancement of critically important stars and assets over the course of the last eleven o so years. While Triple H benefits considerably from headlining alongside The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin during perhaps the company's single most dizzyingly successful time, but Triple H was also tasked with holding up the WWE's A-show fort during a comparatively brutal downturn in business (namely, 2003-lots of 2004) while being a _heel_, which is counterintuitive as a _modus operandi_ for Vince McMahon, but it worked out well, because Triple H was at least able to secure a placeholder in Benoit, a rising star in Orton and the jackpot of a new legitimate superstar in Batista, all within the timeframe of March 2004-late spring 2005.

Whereas Undertaker's work on Smackdown during that down period was at best marginally important by comparison; Lesnar, Angle and then finally Guerrero all ruled the Smackdown main event scene while Cena began to blossom as a formidable midcard attraction by 2004. Even when Undertaker took on the long project of helping to set Orton back on course on Smackdown in 2005, the program was soon overshadowed by both Cena/JBL initially and then later Batista when WWE swapped their two new leading men. 

Another point to consider is that while Triple H has been a more consistent main-eventer, so to speak, on the A-program for the last twelve years now, missing two seven- or eight-month stretches due to separate quad injuries and taking a break in mid-2005 and then finally becoming a part-timer like HBK and Taker beginning in spring 2010, Undertaker's time of main-eventing at all goes back quite a ways further than Triple H (aside from a little filler program here and there with Austin in spring 1998 or so to fill house shows and whatnot in the wake of HBK's back injury sidelining him indefinitely), and while Taker was typically not in the WWF Championship picture throughout most of the '90s, he often found himself in the #2 main event of the night on a fairly regular basis, working with guys like Kama (ugh), King Kong Bundy and Diesel before finally making his way to working more consistently with guys at the very top in 1997 like Sid, Hart and Michaels. Undertaker also worked with Steve Austin a few times in 1996 and 1997 and then had the huge "Highway to Hell" program with him for Summerslam 1998, which was practically treated like a Wrestlemania-level extravaganza (if only WWE knew how to hype most of their PPVs today). Following this, Taker continued his program with Kane while also working with Austin a lot in the fall of 1998, when the Austin character was arguably at its zenith in pop culture identification, with the "Buried Alive" build-up and match, and then going on to work with him in the spring and summer of 1999 again, etceteras. 

Ultimately, a few years back this would have been a more decisive case, especially as it relates to specific drawing power vs. specific drawing power, since Undertaker/Edge was a program that was not lighting the world afire for the Smackdown brand's live gates, and when Triple H was sent to Smackdown, those live gates numbers improved quite dramatically, and the Triple H/Jeff Hardy angle on Smackdown was probably the last time Smackdown's overall numbers were truly comparable to Raw's... However, due to Triple H winding down and Undertaker having an easy go-to angle every year for Wrestlemania season, Taker is probably closer to Triple H in drawing quality today than he has been since Triple H was in the Corporate Ministry beneath him in the early summer of 1999. But again, at a certain point here, it's almost like comparing an apple with an orange; they share some similarities but, ultimately, a few too many differences.

Undertaker is a mythological character, both literally within the absurd kayfabe points to consider and as simply the ultimate legend still standing in WWE, unquestionably so now that Michaels is gone. Then there is his influence in Asian anime, the reverence with which much of Latin America sees him, the company's billing of his Streak matches at every Wrestlemania for a while now as indisputable must-see matches, frequently placed in Match of the Year discussions and even Slammy Award-winning. The thing about his character, about him, though, is that he's not the man best able to play a brand's leading man and world champion for a plethora of reasons. He tends to work best in special attraction treatments by WWE, and even his most successful program(s) with the leading men of the eras he's travailed, from Austin in the summer of 1998 to Batista in 2007 to Triple H at this last Wrestlemania, have been afforded that quality, because it best suits him. 

Triple H was the closest thing WWE ever came to creating a Ric Flair-in-NWA. The analogy fits better because Triple H spent the vast majority of his prime as a hated heel. The Man. The guy against others in the company are to be gauged, the standard-bearer and, as Gorilla Monsoon might say, "the man to beat." Trips as a main-eventer has been cast in several different roles--the principal foil for the two biggest stars of one of the most successful eras ever, the man left behind from the Attitude Era to largely mold the next generation, finally let loose as a face for optimum straightforward drawing ability, especially as a member of DX with HBK. In some ways, he was given a greater opportunity during his own time to draw, but with that opportunity came a more demanding responsibility, and a lot of it was done with one hand proverbially tied behind his back due to his status as the promotion's top heel. 

Anyway, can't we all just agree that WWE doubtless wishes both guys weren't aging and nearing their respective retirements? Haha.


----------



## Trumpet Thief (Dec 27, 2005)

HHHbkDX said:


> I posted this on another thread, and I've decided to post it here too
> 
> We FINALLY got something awesome from the WWE in this whole Punk storyline and everything, and what did you fucking tools(talking to the band wagon Punk haters and the general WWE haters) do? You Bitched, Cried, Moaned, Whined, and Complained non stop throughout as usual....It's just absolutely SAD. Well, I hope you're ready to have Cena's nuts shoved down your throats so hard. I know this is gonna sound stupid, but none of you DESERVE to watch the type of WWE we got these past few months, cause, lets be honest here, lets be COMPLETELY honest, WWE tried...They tried to give you the storyline YOU wanted. They GAVE you a MASSIVE CM Punk push, something you tools begged and CRIED for. They gave you an EXCELLENT storyline. And throughout ALL of it....you BITCHED. Now when you start bitching about Cena holding the title for the 15th time, just remember, WWE gave you something great, something YOU WANTED, and instead of spending time enjoying it, you did what you do best, you bitched about it.


THIS. THIS. THIS. THIS.

Thank you for saying exactly what I wanted to.

Let's start off by thanking the WWE. The build up to Money in the Bank, along with the actual payoff, was brilliant, and we all should thank the WWE for giving us such an awesome month. The build up to CM Punk vs Cena was BEYOND EXCELLENT. The shoot promo was a definite mark out moment, and for once, Cena's character was being given somewhat of a makeover (or so I thought). The Summerslam promo did Cena's character more justice than I ever could: "And the virtues that defined Cena's career cost him the title". For once, Cena couldn't just "overcome the odds" and be rewarded for it. For once, Cena's "Hustle, Loyalty, and Respect" cost him the title when he knocked out Laurinitas. The build up to the match, with promos by CM Punk and Cena, along with the ***** match at MITB showed that the WWE can be compelling, and absolutely amazing. On top of that, the WWE did something completely unpredictable, by having a failed cash in, while everyone and their mothers knew that Del Rio was walking out as champion. Honestly, MITB (in my opinion, one of the two greatest pay per views of the past 3 years) was reason enough for us to go crazy.

Past that, the WWE gave us some pretty awesome changes. I saw many people BEGGING that there is a WWE Championship tournament the day after MITB. It was granted, and on top of that, they gave us the bombshell of Triple H becoming the new COO. Then, next week, they gave us the "CM Punk" return. Summerslam, while not as good as MITB, was still WAYY up there, with many amazing matches, along with amazing main event builds. And yet, I still saw many people complaining about how it could have been better. Same towards Night of Champions. Don't get me wrong, it could very well have been better, but we need to appreciate what we have. Capital Punishment's buildup was for Cena vs. R-Truth. No doubt that R-Truth was entertaining, but take a damn look at it. Most of the promos were Cena cutting the same "goofy" speech about how R-Truth was crazy. The main events were still boring tag matches with old legends that shouldn't show up. And the pay off was EXACTLY the same as the majority of Cena matches (get hit by special, fall out of ring, FU, or 50D, reversal, STFU!). 

Look at it now. While there was still a tag match with Cena, we got an epic promo with CM Punk and Haitch as the main event. If we don't realize how great these past three months have been until they're gone, then we'll just be shooting ourselves in the foot. The only difference between this week's RAW and every other damn RAW that's happened in the past two years is that it had a glimmer of hope in Airboom, Miz-Rtruth, and Punk/HHH. As much as I respect Cena's wrestling ability, and even his promo ability, the programs he's involved in, for the most part, suck donkey balls. With Punk, we got two matches that were very high calibre, actual solid buildups, and an Attitude-Era like build. If you look at it now, we've got Del Rio (a damn fine champion) being called a coward, and thus, acting like one (in an almost complete 180 from his actual character, as he never really was that much of a pussy). If things go back to the status quo, it's just going to be more and more heels being built up to get eaten by Cena. And all it will be is more title reigns that make the championships look like trash (Swagger, Sheamus, and I'm a huge fan of both of these guys by the way). We've been given something great by the WWE. While last week's RAW may have sucked, we have to realize that for the most part, the past 3 months have been the shining example of GOOD PROGRAMMING, even with Nash.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Like I have been saying for a while, 2011 is probably WWE's best year in a long while. The changes are slow for many people's like or dislike but they are there. Just compare a show from last year to today. No, not ratings/buyrates wise but content wise. Major changes there.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

DesolationRow said:


> The main flaw of Meltzer's draw-ranking system is that it hinges a bit too heavily in favor of how many shows you've headlined over all else. Which is why, back in 2008, when that list came out, Randy Orton somehow found himself tied with Dave Batista in terms of drawing power, when that suggestion, real-world, is laughable. Between Batista's injuries and breaks and Orton being so consistently overpushed into main events, by Meltzer's scheme, they find themselves tied up with one another. Yet WWE's own financial reports will rather quite bluntly buttress just how huge Batista was for them as a drawing powerhouse, while Orton's impact on business is, almost invariably, insubstantial and modest at best.
> 
> As far as Triple H/Undertaker goes, there's little doubt how much more crucial Triple H has been for the company in terms of both singular drawing power and in fostering the advancement of critically important stars and assets over the course of the last eleven o so years. While Triple H benefits considerably from headlining alongside The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin during perhaps the company's single most dizzyingly successful time, but Triple H was also tasked with holding up the WWE's A-show fort during a comparatively brutal downturn in business (namely, 2003-lots of 2004) while being a _heel_, which is counterintuitive as a _modus operandi_ for Vince McMahon, but it worked out well, because Triple H was at least able to secure a placeholder in Benoit, a rising star in Orton and the jackpot of a new legitimate superstar in Batista, all within the timeframe of March 2004-late spring 2005.
> 
> ...


Great post, nice to see someone supporting HHH in this that makes some sense. I think you're giving HHH way more than he's due, but I'm not getting into that argument. 

I will say one thing I really like is the sentence "But again, at a certain point here, it's almost like comparing an apple with an orange; they share some similarities but, ultimately, a few too many differences." That's truth right there when it comes to Taker and HHH. They both put over guys, and the way they were done was similar, but also different. Taker made Lesnar into the star of the ruthless aggression era until he left after WM20, turning Lesnar from a big, monster, main eventer to the star of the company, gave Jeff Hardy his initial push back in 2002, which would have went somewhere had Jeff not fucked up. In 2003 he tried to make Nathan Jones a star by teaming with him, but honestly, that was a very forgettable time, and I don't remember what the fuck happened. He gave Cena his first push up from low mid-card to high mid-card/low tier main event. That along with his feud with Angle got him more exposure, more popular, turned him face, won him the US Title, and eventually a year later after getting really popular, won him the WWE Title. In 2004, he worked the feud with JBL, cementing him as the top guy of SD by the end of it. 

2005, after what happened with his face run and HHH burying him in favor of Batista, Taker took the scraps of Orton and made him a star again... and then Orton looks like he's on his way to win the World Title, but for whatever reason WWE messed that up and gave Mysterio the title instead. I believe it was because of one of Orton's infamous fuck ups backstage, or he failed some drug policy if that was in effect at the time. I don't agree with what you said the feud was overshadowed, I remember it doing the overshadowing, and being the center stage of SD, ending the show several times, and being much more memorable than Guerrero/Batista... well it would be except for the fact that was Eddie's last storyline before he died, and it's naturally more remembered. (RIPEddie). 

He then put over Khali as this new, unstoppable giant at Judgment Day, that Taker couldn't beat, but I suppose after they realized he was a talentless flunk he was that could barely work a match and that they made a huge mistake, they reversed that. Although they still kept Khali dominant even when he eventually lost to Taker, Khali was a force to be reckoned with for a few months. Taker then went and put over Mr. Kennedy, and with that feud Kennedy went in the eyes of the people from a mid-carder to a main eventer, and it's a perfect example of how working with Taker can make you a star, even if you lose. He was pretty much set to be the top guy on SD after he won MITB, but then things went downhill with Kennedy with some INCREDIBLY bad luck.

Since then Taker hasn't really put anyone over in the sense of elevating them to a new level. He had his feud with Batista in 2007, and Batista was already more than established. It does always look good to have a clean win over Taker though... then he feuded with Edge, and Edge too was already established, but hell, he made Edge look stronger than ever in their WM and Summerslam matches. Then it was Big Show, and they had a couple of great matches, and Taker really sold Show well, but ultimately nothing came out of it for Show... although I believe Show is credited with putting Taker out in 2009 until Summerslam (I believe that was Taker's last match). 2009 he had his feud with Michaels... then had his feud with Punk for the World Title, won the title, but buried Punk in the process, which even for me was a big no-no. Apparently Punk disrespected Taker backstage, got smart with him, or something (can't recall off the top of my head), but I don't think it warranted the burial. Nevertheless, Punk was never the same until just 2 and a half months ago. 2010... he feuded with Michaels, and put Kane as a monster world champion. Then 2011, there was his match with HHH, and nothing else.

That pretty much sums up Taker, so let's move to HHH:

Starting off in 2002... didn't really put anyone over. 2003... didn't put anyone over, but he did begin the process of building up Orton and Batista in Evolution. 2004 he put over Benoit which worked out well, but he did bury Orton... whether Orton deserved it or not, he buried him. It's kinda the same as what Taker did with Punk, but I suppose it doesn't matter now as both guys are fine. But for whatever reason, whenever Orton and HHH duke it out, Orton always looks inferior to HHH, and this remained true in 2007-2008-2009. But anyway, 2005 rolls around, and from the ground up, he made the top star in the company for the next 5 months, Batista, although once Cena moved to Raw it's up for debate who was the top guy in the company. He feuded with Flair, then Big Show, then Cena, and Cena beat him, although he was already the top guy, so it didn't do much for him, but some people like to call it "cementing him at the top"... I think that's more appropriate for what HHH looks to be doing with Punk, but I'll get to that later. 

Reforms DX, beats McMahons, Rated RKO hands them their first loss since reuniting, only to have their team buried by DX's team. HHH got injured and Rated-RKO kind of got put over as a result. HHH returns, basically buries Booker T (although this time is excusable, since Booker was leaving anyway), had some mini-feud with McMahon I completely forgot, No Mercy came, he beat Orton in the opener, then lost in the main event after competing twice before. Ends up going over Orton for the title, Orton gets injured, HHH goes to SD, puts over Jeff Hardy, but by a year later, Jeff is gone and apparently still the same old junkie he always was, so that push goes to a waste. I guess at least that push then allowed Jeff to help get over Punk... and then that... well... just read what happened with Taker above. 

2009, and it's just, once again, Orton looks terribly inferior to HHH, like no threat at all. I mean, I just don't understand it. They killed Orton's momentum entirely, and while they managed to keep some of the pieces together, Orton was never the same. HHH though kind of redeems this, because with Shawn Michaels, they put over Legacy MAJORLY. The team looked like a legit threat to DX every match, and even beat them as cleanly as you can by making Shawn tap out. We all know how Legacy turned out though, and both guys pushes started over after they split, with Rhodes actually going somewhere and Dibiase not.

2010, HHH gives Sheamus an initial rub, as Sheamus looked decent enough against HHH at Mania, but what really was the rub for Sheamus was him putting HHH OUT! For 10 months, and hell, maybe it was better HHH didn't return to the ring after that because that would've helped Sheamus out so much more. It didn't really help HHH added insult to what was already Sheamus' injured push, by pretty much destroying him the week after he returned. Hell Ted Dibiase got in more offense than Sheamus, but meh, I'm nitpicking. Fact is Sheamus started getting seen somewhat as a challenger for the WWE Title because he took out HHH.

2011, now HHH is in the process of cementing Punk as the top star. I mentioned this earlier, but I consider this cementing because Punk isn't the top guy yet. He's over, he's credible, but he's not the number 1 guy yet. This feud could be what does that, and hopefully it does.

There you have it, all the names I could think of since the brand split that Taker and HHH have put over. The problem with Taker is he was always on the b-show, can't have show revolve around him because he's not the type of character that can do that, but he can still maintain the same if not more credibility than the top guy of not only the brand, but the WWE. Still though, he's had some failed attempts at pushing people, really, only Lesnar, and Orton ran with the full pushes they got. Even if Orton had a minor setback, he still always had the credibility from that feud, and it helped him, and I already mentioned in detail what Taker did for Lesnar. Cena also capitalized on the initial push Taker gave him, and went nowhere but UP after that. Jeff Hardy as well got a rub by Taker. HHH though ultimately put over Jeff as a main eventer in 2008, made Batista from the ground up, helped Legacy along with Shawn Michaels look like a threat, and gave Sheamus a very nice rub, not to mention whatever else I posted above.

After all that, both guys were in a way opposites. HHH was up front the top guy of Raw, while Taker was kind of the top guy, but not getting in the way of younger stars rising up on SD. But they both set out to make future stars, and they both have done that, very well. Ultimately though, it's why HHH had more of an impact in the ruthless aggression era, as he was prominently featured, on the A-show, and I think that helped his drawing potential when he came to SD. It was like a big fish from a big pond came to a smaller pond. It draws attention. On the other hand Taker never really needed that, as he's seen as a legend and huge star regardless, and people will pay to see him in small amounts... although I understand he can't be consistently main eventing, as his shtick gets tiring quickly for people who aren't marks for him (like me). But in small bits, he can do wonders, where HHH, you could spread him out a bit more. 

Yep, as you said DesolationRow, like apples and oranges. I suppose Taker's the apple for me. 

Oh, and as for your last sentence, well... I don't give a fuck about WWE, I wish Taker wasn't near his retirement, and could still go another 20 years... now if only he was really a deadman... 



Edit: Oh wait, this topic is about CM Punk/HHH... fuck.


----------



## EspartacusHughes (Sep 9, 2011)

Keep riding HHH and McMahon's dick you ......s. This summer storyline has been complete SHIT except for one brilliant guy's ranting and comeback with another song and T-shirt. And that's the only thing they have done for Punk and themselves: designing a fucking new T-shirt. 

NOTHING has changed, and nothing will, because the team of fucktards composed by Vince, Stephanie, HHH, Laringitis, Kevin Dunn and co. are INCAPABLE of writing one fucking consistent plot that is not changed five times a week. They don't even like Punk and all the "indy wrestling bullshit" he champions and trust me that if he's still pushed is because of that T-shirt. They are completely blind to CM Punk's appeal even as far as writing a fucking promo around the crowd not liking the guy while they CHANT HIS NAME (just like they do in every other city) and I'm pretty sure that Vince is gonna send the son in law with the fucking shovel.


----------



## 2Slick (May 1, 2005)

While I do agree that CM Punk is coming off as a little bit of a whiner, honestly, I don't really care that much. If it's entertaining to me, then bitch, piss and moan away. The way I see it is that he's just portraying a character like any other actor does in a sitcom, movie or what have you... he does it very effectively, it's definitely caught the attention of me and MANY others, so yeah... I don't see what the problem is here.

He's had some great matches the last few months, his character has been re-invigorated to the ultimate maximum and caused a LOT of buzz, so love or hate him, it's been effective and I've loved every minute of it so far.

Although, I do have to say some people just toss of some blind hatred just to simply be doing that... hating for no good reason at all other than to be anti-anything CM Punk stands for. Whatever floats your boat, but that boat may sink if you bitch about things that don't make a lick of sense... I'm just sayin'.


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## holycityzoo (Aug 14, 2011)

EspartacusHughes said:


> Keep riding HHH and McMahon's dick you ......s. This summer storyline has been complete SHIT except for one brilliant guy's ranting and comeback with another song and T-shirt. And that's the only thing they have done for Punk and themselves: designing a fucking new T-shirt.
> 
> NOTHING has changed, and nothing will, because the team of fucktards composed by Vince, Stephanie, HHH, Laringitis, Kevin Dunn and co. are INCAPABLE of writing one fucking consistent plot that is not changed five times a week. They don't even like Punk and all the "indy wrestling bullshit" he champions and trust me that if he's still pushed is because of that T-shirt. They are completely blind to CM Punk's appeal even as far as writing a fucking promo around the crowd not liking the guy while they CHANT HIS NAME (just like they do in every other city) and I'm pretty sure that Vince is gonna send the son in law with the fucking shovel.



People like you will never be satisfied. You're the same kind of person that bitched on the forums during the attitude era. If you hate it so much then go the fuck away, because you don't possess the brain power to compose a valid argument.


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## EspartacusHughes (Sep 9, 2011)

holycityzoo said:


> People like you will never be satisfied. You're the same kind of person that bitched on the forums during the attitude era. If you hate it so much then go the fuck away, because you don't possess the brain power to compose a valid argument.


Why the fuck aren't retards like you whose only arguments consist of "If you don't like it, don't watch it" instantly banned? And I mean banned from society or the fucking human race. Dumb moron.


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## CP Munk (Aug 13, 2011)

EspartacusHughes said:


> Why the fuck aren't retards like you whose only arguments consist of "If you don't like it, don't watch it" instantly banned? And I mean banned from society or the fucking human race. Dumb moron.


umad?


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

EspartacusHughes said:


> Why the fuck aren't retards like you whose only arguments consist of "If you don't like it, don't watch it" instantly banned? And I mean banned from society or the fucking human race. Dumb moron.


Compelling counterargument.


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## HHHbkDX (Apr 29, 2009)

EspartacusHughes said:


> Why the fuck aren't retards like you whose only arguments consist of "If you don't like it, don't watch it" instantly banned? And I mean banned from society or the fucking human race. Dumb moron.


lol you're bashing on him when he's completely right. Why the FUCK are you watching something, just to bitch about it? 

Just like CP Munk said, umad?


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Why do people care so much about who draws.

I don't because i'm enjoying this storyline......I'm enjoying punk immensely too. 

When rock/austin were wrestling in TEH ATTITUDE ERA OMG LOLZ

They were wrestling in wrestling's boom period started by WCW, pro wrestling was something that people watched also due to the less amount of cable channels, and because wrestling caught people's attention because of the dramatized violence.

You have to take into account the time period you were dealing with in the 1990's, that's why ratings and viewership really shouldn't compare to the 1990's because the population and ratings system has changed.

Plus people really don't give a shit about wrestling anymore because they have the all to common wrestling is fake mindset. People want violence so they go watch UFC. People wanted more violence in the 1990's so they went to the WWE/WCW

The boom period ended because the attitude era fanbase got older/moved on. 

This ratings decline started in 2005 and has only gotten worse because of the "same old shit" booking that has gone on for 6 years. Punk is in one storyline and the rest of the show is the exact same thing before he won the title.

Also on that punk doesn't draw theory....BULLSHIT, punk's in the highest rated segments of the night and people honestly don't care about the midcard. They only care about the main event. They have tuned in for the first and last segments: (as seen by the viewership numbers)

If the WWE had a more compelling midcard with better storylines then the ratings go up. Blaming ratings on one person is an awful mentality to take. The rating WWE gets reflects the entire show not punk.

The wwe only seem to care about their main eventers and that has taken a toll on the entire quality of the show.

Plus we are entering a new period in wrestling. All the old stars are retiring, and the wwe is hellbent on not making new legitimate stars. Their lazy booking over the past 6 years is hurting their business.

Plus when your face of the company/ultimate all american good guy gets the most heat night in and night out something isn't right

Ok i'm finished


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## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

I never cared about who drew until cena.
Everyone was saying 
"wait til the ratings drop wait till the ppv buyrates drop so he gets pushed back to the mid card"

6 years later I am still obsessed with the ratings and cena is still on top.

I guess that is why the punk haters are also obsessed with the ratings.


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## vintage jorts (Aug 9, 2011)

kokepepsi said:


> I never cared about who drew until cena.
> Everyone was saying
> "wait til the ratings drop wait till the ppv buyrates drop so he gets pushed back to the mid card"
> 
> ...


Cena is gonna sink the WWE if they don't find a couple more bonafide megastars to carry their company into the future. WWE will be dead inside of 10 years or be reduced to a rich guy's toy more than a cash cow in the entertainment business.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

EBboy™ said:


> Great post, nice to see someone supporting HHH in this that makes some sense. *I think you're giving HHH way more than he's due*, but I'm not getting into that argument.


Anytime somebody gives him credit for something, you always seem to think that person is giving him more than he's due. In fact, I don't think I have seen a time where you haven't come out and said something to that effect when involved in a Trips debate. I'm just saying. I actually remember that one time where you claimed that Edge, Orton, Jericho, Shawn, Jeff, Benoit and Eddie were all bigger stars than him which was just ridiculous btw. At that point I quickly realized that you aren't able to/don't want to give him a fair shake. That's fine because not everybody does. I don't think it's right of you however, to then turn around and tout how fair you are when judging him when you're actually far from it. *DesoRow* is one of the most impartial posters on this site. I imagine that that comes through very clearly in his posts. But despite all that you still overlook what he says or don't believe it or whatever. 

Fact is, nobody that isn't a troll is claiming that Trips is a Rock, Austin, Hogan draw because he flat out isn't. Nobody is except for those 3 and that's why they are on the pedestal that they are. The next step down/possibly joining those 3 is Cena and depending on how you look at things, Batista too. After that comes the HHH's and Taker's. I don't need to go into detail here because *DesoRow* has already covered it. Just a small example he used was Taker/Edge not doing great house show business when HHH moves over and things pick up. That's a solid fact yet I imagine you will try to dispute it.

Anyways, I just felt like pointing that out. Yes I'm a HHH mark but I also look at things as objectively as I can. I'm not a blind mark either and am well aware of his flaws. If he goes over Punk clean on Sunday, believe me, I'll be the first one here saying that it was wrong. But I'm aware of his contributions to the WWE over the past 10 years which you clearly think have been minimal when you claim that Edge or Orton or whoever is/was a bigger star than him. I know there's that infamous Cornette quote that says that HHH only works with the guys who draw the money. Well, I find that to be an incredibly silly thing to say. Outside Austin, Hogan, Rock, Cena and Batsita, Trips comes next with Taker right behind him. He has played an integral role for the WWE since his rise to the top in 00, has had a hand in creating the next batch of stars and cementing them at the top, has sold a shit ton of merchandise whether on his own or through DX, has sold PPV's, has drawn fans to house shows and has delivered the oh so important (to everybody here apparently) television ratings too. The numbers speak for themselves. Like I said already, did he revolutionize anything like Rock or Hogan? No, not everybody can. But he is the next step down from those guys and if you don't want to acknowledge that then fine, it's your opinion and you're completely entitled to do so.


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## RKO696 (Apr 12, 2010)

How come every CM Punk thread turns into a debate on why the Rock is better than CM Punk?


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## Brawling_Maniac (Jul 5, 2011)

These are most of the PPVs Headlined by Triple h around late 2002 - 2004 when he was the face of the WWE.

PPV:Buyrates

Summerslam 2003: 465,000

No Way Out 2003: 450,000

Rumble 2003: 585,000

Rumble 2004: 500,000

Summerslam 2004: 415,000

Survivor Series 2003: 450,000 

Backlash 2002: 400,000

Bad Blood 2003: 385,000 (big buyrate shock at the time)

Summerslam 2002: 520,000 (brock vs Rock, Shawn vs HHH)

Unforgiven 2003: 360,000 (Goldberg vs HHH) 

Survivor Series 2002: 340,000

Armageddon 2002: 335,000

Survivor Series 2004: 325,000

King of the Ring 2002: 320,000 - HHH vs Taker undisputed campionship.

Backlash 2004: 295,000

Bad Blood 2004: 290,000

No Mercy 2003: 275,000

No Way Out 2004: 265,000

Vengeance 2004: 240,000

Armageddon 2003: 240,000

Unforgiven 2004: 239,000

Judgment Day 2004: 235,000

Armageddon 2004: 230,000

Taboo Tuesday: 350,000 

Survivor Series 2004: 325,000 - shocker in 2004.

So you can see Triple h pretty much carried WWE brand Alone at that time.

Taker headlined PPV only when he was feuding with Brock lesnar in 2002. But after that Eddie,kurt,JBL,cena were consistent main eventers for smackdown.

HHH since 2000 has been a bigger draw than taker and still is.


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## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I know from what I read most people disagree, but I actually really liked Trips in '03. The problem was I couldn't stand most of the people he feuded with, especially Goldberg and Steiner at the time. No doubt he's a huge name considering he literally was Raw that year.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

HHH was pretty unbearable going through the WCW Retirement Tour in 2003. He was pretty repetitive every time he would come out for a promo.


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## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

idk I liked him. :$

Some of the worst PPV matches of the year though.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Yeah, not so much HHH's fault on that part. He had Steiner, Nash, and Goldberg.


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