# We've Got To Talk About The WWE Guys *Spoilers for next weeks Dynamite*



## Oracle (Nov 9, 2011)

Whats Erik Rowan doing in the impact zone!!


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## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

thats annoying. it may be a short term thing only a few dates, but either way it's not a good look. that and Cardona seem so uneeded

btw, alot of the names mentioned made their names outside of wwe. Cage, Omega,Archer, Ivellise, Trent, i wouldn't label them as wwe stars. they did nothing there. older guys are managers which i have no problem with.

why are they trying so hard to make Brodie important? im more upset with that. Dark Order is gonna be here longer then covid god damit


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

alex0816 said:


> btw, alot of the names mentioned made their names outside of wwe. Cage, Omega,Archer, Ivellise, Trent, i wouldn't label them as wwe stars. they did nothing there. older guys are managers which i have no problem with.


I'd agree with you there but regardless they are still formerly WWE.


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## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'd agree with you there but regardless they are still formerly WWE.


i really don't care who's former wwe and who's not, i want the best guys there. Rowan and Cardona are not that. hopefully neither are there long


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## A PG Attitude (Nov 5, 2012)

I don't care where guys have worked before. A lot of WWE guys were never used properly... working for them shouldn't mean theye can never work anywhere else when they are still I their prime years. 

As long as its a good show with long term storytelling that should be all that matters. Do fans of sports teams complain if they sign several players from the biggest sports team in the league? No.


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

Meltzer said the spoiler is fake, but give it up to chip for eating up fake news and using it to immediately crap on AEW.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Chip Chipperson said:


> With Erick Rowan debuting at yesterdays tapings and the additions of Mike Chioda (And being given more attention than almost any other referee in AEW ever), Vickie Guerrero and Matt Cordona to the AEW roster it's now becoming as evident as ever that AEW has kind of become another haven for the WWE castaways. The most common argument I have seen on this forum is "So what? EVERYONE has been in WWE" but that quite frankly isn't true at all.
> 
> I don't want to bore everyone with a list of who they should sign but there is plenty of talent plying their trade in Impact, ROH and in the larger international federations who have never been signed to a WWE contract. The smaller independents are also filled with younger talents with plenty of potential just waiting for a good opportunity to get on TV and just show how good they are. From ROH alone if I was AEW I'd be looking at Dalton Castle, Jay Lethal, Silas Young and The Briscoes.
> 
> ...


Potentially. Meltzer has said it's fake. So this is either premature on your part or Meltzer is in damage control

Though if rowan does sign I don't care as long as he earns his spot.that should be everyone's attitude instead of crapping on aew.

Will you go lol aew if WWE sign mjf?


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Meltzer said the spoiler is fake, but give it up to chip for eating up fake news and using it to immediately crap on AEW.


If it wasn't this he would've created some other stupid topic anyway


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## Chandler Ward (May 10, 2015)

Did he really show up or not? Feel like it's possibly fake but I do see them putting the TNT belt on Brodie Lee so they don't completely bury him, his stock went down after the world title match with Moxley. Brodie Lee hasn't really been the same since he debuted, but I think he will get it back. Really hope Rowan didn't show up, like Rowan said in an interview he hopes they go separate ways in the business because they always seem to get thrown together.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Firefromthegods said:


> Potentially. Meltzer has said it's fake. So this is either premature on your part or Meltzer is in damage control
> 
> Though if rowan does sign I don't care as long as he earns his spot.that should be everyone's attitude instead of crapping on aew.
> 
> Will you go lol aew if WWE sign mjf?


My point still stands even if the spoiler is fake.

"Hurr durr it's only 39 not 40 you nerd!" doesn't really change the viewpoint.

Why would I say lolAEW if WWE sign MJF? I'd be pretty disappointed.


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Aww howay man , but that is a fucking black out spoiler not a headline one, ffs, just kill next week for me, thanks, great feckin job


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Chip you done some fecking research there lad, man's on the ball.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Carter84 said:


> Aww howay man , but that is a fucking black out spoiler not a headline one, ffs, just kill next week for me, thanks, great feckin job


I put a spoiler warning on, if you clicked anyway that's on you my man.


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I put a spoiler warning on, if you clicked anyway that's on you my man.





Chip Chipperson said:


> I put a spoiler warning on, if you clicked anyway that's on you my man.


I never clicked it came up on my latest content feed my man, all cool though waste of money signing that big div. Hope it's short term as he is terrible.


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

@Chip Chipperson ah another Dalton Castle fan, nice. He would be a sweet signing, have you seen his YouTube page?


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

lance was in wwe , when?


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

You blindly assumed that a random post was real because of your AEW hate boner, leading you to make this garbage ass thread.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

RelivingTheShadow said:


> You blindly assumed that a random post was real because of your AEW hate boner, leading you to make this garbage ass thread.


So lets disregard Erick Rowan. 39 wrestlers from the WWE on your roster, is it too many?


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## Swan-San (May 25, 2019)

It doesn't matter who's ex WWE, it only matters if you're good or not. And even if it did matter, Cage as a WWE example is silly as no one's going to watch the show, see cage, and think WWE.


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Chip, I heard from good source Brock Lesner turns up to dynamite & wrestles an impromptu match with oc who wins in 3 mins - can you comment??


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Pippen94 said:


> Chip, I heard from good source Brock Lesner turns up to dynamite & wrestles an impromptu match with oc who wins in 3 mins - can you comment??


Believable. Dumb booking and burying a former WWE star who is a monster. Seems like something AEW would do.


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

Chip Chipperson said:


> So lets disregard Erick Rowan. 39 wrestlers from the WWE on your roster, is it too many?


I'll respond to this when I'm out of work, but hopefully you can acknowledge how much of a moron you are for immediately believing an unsubstantiated report, to the point your hate boner flared up so much that you decided to write a this long of a post.

You clearly have an agenda.


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## Chris22 (Jan 7, 2010)

Carter84 said:


> lance was in wwe , when?


He was in WWE around 2009-2010 and wrestled under the name Vance Archer.


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## Unityring (Jun 25, 2020)

Great post Chip 
I agree mostly with what you’re saying.
I really don’t want to watch Ryder or Rowan,Harper or Vickie any WWE outcast
I became interested in AEW because I didn’t know any of the wrestlers at the time.
Most of the ex WWE guys/girls were let go for a reason.


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## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

Chip i knew you were a hater but not at this point.....


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Many people calling me a hater but very few actually discussing whether or not AEW has too many ex WWE stars.


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## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

When are we going to start discussing relevant things and not shit that has zero to do with the product, but just hate boner for signing any former WWE talent, without discussing their work.



Chip Chipperson said:


> Many people calling me a hater but very few actually discussing whether or not AEW has too many ex WWE stars.


WWE, WCW, NWA, and wrestlers from indys. This is such a pathetic take especially since they're not pushing lower card guys as top guys. Going with announcers and non-wrestlers talent is pathetic as well, you damn well these people are good at their job and can bring lapsed fans back.


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Many people calling me a hater but very few actually discussing whether or not AEW has too many ex WWE stars.


DUDE YOU FUCKING SAID KENNY OMEGA IS AN EX WWE STAR.

That's like me saying Moxley is an ex TNA star, you are actually just being a fucking moron right now, and I know you have the ability to utilize one of your many brain cells, either that or you have an agenda.

The dude with the Hikaru Shida avatar has some critical takes of AEW that I can understand where he's coming from, you, you're just coming across like a dumbass.


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## Botchy SinCara (Apr 24, 2013)

What does it matter if you get guys from Indies or wwe ? As long as they are not signing guys past their prime it's a non issue ..even before aew was a thing you knew their were guys in wwe who wanted out but their was no where else and now there is ..you always were going to have some wwe guys jumping to aew



It's about time you turn off the show because it's obviously not for you ..or maybe you just have nothing better going on in life other than trolling a wrestling site


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Many people calling me a hater but very few actually discussing whether or not AEW has too many ex WWE stars.


Chip I don't work in the business like you but think the expression is you got worked


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## ripcitydisciple (Dec 18, 2014)

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Meltzer said the spoiler is fake, but give it up to chip for eating up fake news and using it to immediately crap on AEW.


That _is more _reliable than Meltzer's speculations.


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## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1293940160783056897


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

ripcitydisciple said:


> That _is more _reliable than Meltzer's speculations.


No, Meltzer dead ass said this was fake, not a speculation. I know some of you guys only consume Meltzer's content via warped headlines, but when he concretely says something, usually he's on the money.

Anyway, both Brodie and Rowan have said they don't want to work with each other anymore because of the stigma it creates, you are an IDIOT to believe that report.

And I'll gladly say I'm a dumbass if it is in fact true, but that's what we have.


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

For the record, yes Omega worked in WWE's developmental program, he got let go and warped into uncertainty to the point he questioned if wrestling was even for him and if he was just not a great performer.

He decided to give Wrestling one final chance, and he got the call from DDT and that spiraled into the new japan run, the fact Chip would use that to contribute to his narrative that AEW signs too many ex WWE guys is just so fucking dumb beyond comprehension I can't even explain.

I'm actually stunned at how someone can make this dumb of a post. Baffled.

EDIT: Let me add, I guess TNA is using too many WWE stars like Eddie Edwards, Rich Swan, Brian Myers, Good Brothers, Deonna Purrazo, Swayer Fulton etc. etc. etc.

Like jesus fuck, this thread is so fucking stupid that I think I became dumber after reading it.


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## ripcitydisciple (Dec 18, 2014)

RelivingTheShadow said:


> No, Meltzer dead ass said this was fake, not a speculation. I know some of you guys only consume Meltzer's content via warped headlines, but when he concretely says something, usually he's on the money.
> 
> Anyway, both Brodie and Rowan have said they don't want to work with each other anymore because of the stigma it creates, you are an IDIOT to believe that report.
> 
> And I'll gladly say I'm a dumbass if it is in fact true, but that's what we have.


Maybe you've misunderstood? I was saying Chips AEW hate is more reliable.


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

ripcitydisciple said:


> Maybe you've misunderstood? I was saying Chips AEW hate is more reliable.


I'm saying Meltzer is very reliable when you actually hear from the source itself and not warped headlines from secondary outlets, I already see this Jungle Boy thing being spread around when it's so warped I can't even begin to explain to you, nevertheless, you get the idea.


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## Jman55 (Nov 21, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Many people calling me a hater but very few actually discussing whether or not AEW has too many ex WWE stars.


The problem is you often count people who should not at all count as ex WWE stars. People like Archer, Cage, Omega, Trent. Yes technically they were in WWE but there's not a god damn person in the world who sees them and thinks of their time there. Hell for Archer more people think of him for his time in TNA before he was in WWE than his WWE run it was noticeable when he first signed and people were referring to him as "that guy with the tramp stamp from TNA".

There are definitely some questionable ones that do fit what you are saying such as Matt Cardona (who is someone I like and am ok with signing but does create that kind of image) or Vickie Guerrero but you using the ones that aren't real examples causes people to not take your points seriously yet you keep doing it. Plus your other examples to push this narrative like Cody, Moxley and Jericho are the big stars so are exceptions cause they need to be in those main event or high profile positions for that reason and not due to their WWE time.


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## go stros (Feb 16, 2020)

Wait a minute Chip everyone knows AEW is TNAEW. Cody, Brandi, Max, Jeremy, CD, Kaz, Sky, Santana, Ortiz, Chuck, Trent, Billy, Cage, Dustin, Taz, Schiavone , Tully, Avalon, Evans, Archer, Luchasaurus, Kingston, Ivelesse, Diamante, Hardy, Allie, Blade, Pentagon, Fenix, Kong, Bischoff, Mox


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## ripcitydisciple (Dec 18, 2014)

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I'm saying Meltzer is very reliable when you actually hear from the source itself and not warped headlines from secondary outlets, I already see this Jungle Boy thing being spread around when it's so warped I can't even begin to explain to you, nevertheless, you get the idea.


Sure. I was just wanting to point out Chips AEW hate. I don't care about Meltzer one way or the other.


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

ripcitydisciple said:


> Sure. I was just wanting to point out Chips AEW hate. I don't care about Meltzer one way or the other.


Oh got it, your post was more of in a sarcastic take, my apologies haha


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## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Does this really matter? I mean honestly does it? Who’s cares where a guy worked. As long as they put on quality shows who cares?


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

NXT Only said:


> Does this really matter? I mean honestly does it? Who’s cares where a guy worked. As long as they put on quality shows who cares?


I get the idea of someone like Rowan, who wasn't honestly that talented, and never got over(unlike Cardona), getting a job just based on his WWE position and his teaming with Brodie being questionable.

That being thread worthy is understandable, but obviously, OP was dumb and believed a report with know merit behind it.


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## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

People keep mentioning this WWE, what is it?


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

WCW 1990-1992:
JYD, Race, Orndorff, Taylor, Rotunda, Bigelow, Windham, Reed, Anderson, Zenk, Shiek, Steamboat, Rude, Rhodes, One Man Gang, Valentine, Roberts, Douglas, Atlas, Ventura, Schiavone, Barbarian, Spivey

WWF 1996-1998:
Austin, Cactus, Badd, Levesque, Vader, Scorpio, Simmons, Ross, Cornette, Hayes, Furnas, Pierce, Knight, Gunn, Smothers, Irwin, Alexander York, Williams, Pillman, Rock n Roll Express, Regal

The roster is the least of AEW's problems


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

It seems a fair few of you are missing my point.

My point isn't that these guys are all former WWE stars it's that AEW seems to be only recruiting from the WWE. The only non WWE guys on there are mainly friends of THe Elite or what have you.

Plus, no doubt anyone who does their research would find it off putting to see so many ex WWE contracted talents on a show that preaches it's different and that the WWE sucks.



RelivingTheShadow said:


> DUDE YOU FUCKING SAID KENNY OMEGA IS AN EX WWE STAR.
> 
> That's like me saying Moxley is an ex TNA star, you are actually just being a fucking moron right now


No I didn't, I said he was signed to a WWE contract which he was. I even put in brackets that I was including developmental. Like it or not Kenny was under WWE contract for 10 months therefore he counts as a former WWE employee and not a star. Just like Trent, Archer etc are former WWE employees but not stars.

Moxley to my knowledge only did enhancement matches for TNA therefore was never under contract to them. Keep getting aggressively angry and throwing insults it only makes you look bad...


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

Chip Chipperson said:


> No I didn't, I said he was signed to a WWE contract which he was. I even put in brackets that I was including developmental. Like it or not Kenny was under WWE contract for 10 months therefore he counts as a former WWE employee and not a star. Just like Trent, Archer etc are former WWE employees but not stars.
> 
> Moxley to my knowledge only did enhancement matches for TNA therefore was never under contract to them. Keep getting aggressively angry and throwing insults it only makes you look bad...


So because he signed a contract with a company, he should have this label of being an ex WWE guy? You didn't say he's an ex WWE guy specifically but you clearly used him as a way to add to your statistic of them signing to many ex WWE guys to get your narrative across.

Jericho said that they wouldn't sign every WWE guy that comes out, and at this point, with the COVID releases, they've officially signed a WHOPPING ZERO to long term contracts, Cardona is on a 5 appearance deal, and your bitching about a referee showing up that has TV experience. A FUCKING REFEREE.

Bruh, you have an agenda it's up to you if you want to be delusional enough to admit it or not.


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Chris22 said:


> He was in WWE around 2009-2010 and wrestled under the name Vance Archer.


Cheers Chris, I knew he was in TNA, I wasn't watching back then, did he have any decent matches?


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## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Bruh, you have an agenda it's up to you if you want to be delusional enough to admit it or not.


I'll have to admit, he had me fooled at first because I was like "why would anyone spend so much time watching a show and writing long alternative stories and bookings" if he had hated it so much? 

Turns out he's just hate watching and loves the nitpicking. Stupid arguments like the OP made it oh so very clear.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

RelivingTheShadow said:


> So because he signed a contract with a company, he should have this label of being an ex WWE guy? You didn't say he's an ex WWE guy specifically but you clearly used him as a way to add to your statistic of them signing to many ex WWE guys to get your narrative across.
> 
> Jericho said that they wouldn't sign every WWE guy that comes out, and at this point, with the COVID releases, they've officially signed a WHOPPING ZERO to long term contracts, Cardona is on a 5 appearance deal, and your bitching about a referee showing up that has TV experience. A FUCKING REFEREE.
> 
> Bruh, you have an agenda it's up to you if you want to be delusional enough to admit it or not.


He's an ex WWE guy. If say...the Denver Broncos sign a player to a one year deal is he a former Bronco? Yes, he is. Not saying Kenny made his name in the WWE just saying that he's a former employee of the WWE which is a fact.

Cardona has been signed even if it's just a 5 show appearance deal he's a current AEW wrestler, Chioda got a shit ton of attention (More than any other referee) and whilst I see the benefits of him being there lets not pretend he's not former WWE either.

You have read the original post and are making things up to be angry about. Re-read the post for what it is and ask for clarification on what I mean if you're unsure because flipping out and swearing every post (Which is boring at this point and isn't intimidating if that's what you're going for) makes you look awful.


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Let's be honest, if you haven't worked for WWE/NXT/FCW/Spike TV era TNA then you're a rarity or there is a good reason for it...

Then you have to take into account Anthem, NWA and MLW signing their hot acts and prospects to long term deals. Some are loyal, others are untested/new to the industry. Then there is Killer Kross, who always fancied his chances under the McMahons.

Sometimes it's just a case of timing.


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## Alright_Mate (Jul 21, 2014)

Here we go again, Chip writes another essay on AEW and gets stuff wrong again.


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## Jaxon (Jul 20, 2020)

Why all the hate for Chip, he did ask for discussion and it reads like attacks! 

Do I think they have to many ex WWE, yes, does it bother me no. 

I don't mind who they sign, the question is would I still watch if they signed loads of Indy talent that I do not know? probably not to be honest. So as long as they make good shows bring in as many ex WWE you want.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Chip Chipperson said:


> My point still stands even if the spoiler is fake.
> 
> "Hurr durr it's only 39 not 40 you nerd!" doesn't really change the viewpoint.
> 
> Why would I say lolAEW if WWE sign MJF? I'd be pretty disappointed.


Easy tiger. I'm just saying as long as they earn their keep it isn't quite like tna. From my recollection all WWE signed guys in tna got automatic impact title runs.

There isn't really a detriment to WWE guys getting featured unless they dominate the world title picture like Christian, angle and Jarrett did.

The reasonwhy you feature these guys is cause they have TV experience. They know all that fiddly crap. The only TV ready person I've seen on the roster without TV experience is mjf. Even page and omega and chucky etc have had experience with Sinclair tv. Some obviously didn't benefit (Taylor)

You can use the TV veterans to stomp out the independent nonsense. The other slight issue is the WWE guys come from WWE where their moveset is raped so they may wrestle an indy style which is not conduscent to national tv especially a weekly traveling one.

So while yes some see it as bad there's more upside than down imo


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

If Erick Rowan is in AEW, then I think that's not actually a bad signing. Better than Cardona and Hardy IMO. Still has some potential.

Although I don't like how they made such a big deal out of Chioda, this is one of their best WWE signings. AEW refs have been bad and he can show them how to maintain the illusion of being in control of a match.

That being said, you could cut Cardona, Hager, Hardy, Spears and nothing of value would be lost.


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## Wridacule (Aug 23, 2018)

First ryder and now Rowan? Who's next santino?! What's no way Jose doing these days? For fucks sake..


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## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> With Erick Rowan debuting at yesterdays tapings and the additions of Mike Chioda (And being given more attention than almost any other referee in AEW ever), Vickie Guerrero and Matt Cordona to the AEW roster it's now becoming as evident as ever that AEW has kind of become another haven for the WWE castaways. The most common argument I have seen on this forum is "So what? EVERYONE has been in WWE" but that quite frankly isn't true at all.
> 
> I don't want to bore everyone with a list of who they should sign but there is plenty of talent plying their trade in Impact, ROH and in the larger international federations who have never been signed to a WWE contract. The smaller independents are also filled with younger talents with plenty of potential just waiting for a good opportunity to get on TV and just show how good they are. From ROH alone if I was AEW I'd be looking at Dalton Castle, Jay Lethal, Silas Young and The Briscoes.
> 
> ...


Come on Chioknow p. You


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## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> With Erick Rowan debuting at yesterdays tapings and the additions of Mike Chioda (And being given more attention than almost any other referee in AEW ever), Vickie Guerrero and Matt Cordona to the AEW roster it's now becoming as evident as ever that AEW has kind of become another haven for the WWE castaways. The most common argument I have seen on this forum is "So what? EVERYONE has been in WWE" but that quite frankly isn't true at all.
> 
> I don't want to bore everyone with a list of who they should sign but there is plenty of talent plying their trade in Impact, ROH and in the larger international federations who have never been signed to a WWE contract. The smaller independents are also filled with younger talents with plenty of potential just waiting for a good opportunity to get on TV and just show how good they are. From ROH alone if I was AEW I'd be looking at Dalton Castle, Jay Lethal, Silas Young and The Briscoes.
> 
> ...


Come on Chipip. Yo


Chip Chipperson said:


> With Erick Rowan debuting at yesterdays tapings and the additions of Mike Chioda (And being given more attention than almost any other referee in AEW ever), Vickie Guerrero and Matt Cordona to the AEW roster it's now becoming as evident as ever that AEW has kind of become another haven for the WWE castaways. The most common argument I have seen on this forum is "So what? EVERYONE has been in WWE" but that quite frankly isn't true at all.
> 
> I don't want to bore everyone with a list of who they should sign but there is plenty of talent plying their trade in Impact, ROH and in the larger international federations who have never been signed to a WWE contract. The smaller independents are also filled with younger talents with plenty of potential just waiting for a good opportunity to get on TV and just show how good they are. From ROH alone if I was AEW I'd be looking at Dalton Castle, Jay Lethal, Silas Young and The Briscoes.
> 
> ...


Come on Chip. You know that TNA is the only company that is called out for WWE castoffs.


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## SZilla25 (Sep 1, 2016)

Imagine this guy during the Monday Night Wars era. He'd be losing track of which company to be outraged by for using the other's "rejects."


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## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Geeee said:


> That being said, you could cut Cardona, Hager, Hardy, Spears and nothing of value would be lost.


Nah Hardy has a lot of value as himself. His feud with Sammy is picking up steam.
Cardona could be used for many roles.
Hager brings some legitimacy.


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## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 (Dec 15, 2004)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294271838445547521

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chris22 (Jan 7, 2010)

Carter84 said:


> Cheers Chris, I knew he was in TNA, I wasn't watching back then, did he have any decent matches?


Not really, he was on the ECW brand and also wrestled on Superstars and then was moved to SmackDown and was released shortly after. I just remember people commenting on his lower back tattoo which everyone was calling a 'tramp stamp' lol!


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## Bret'Hitman'Hart (Jun 16, 2020)

Rowan will get jobbed out , so it doesn't even matter. I don't see an issue at all.


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## Bret'Hitman'Hart (Jun 16, 2020)

Wait will that be anything different than his WWE booking? Some people act like all the former WWE guys are given titles and good wins. When in reality they just come in and get beat. Prove me wrong on that one. On a side note I think hiring active wrestlers who are former WWE actually help AEW. These guys mostly lose and its kind of a big fuck you to the industry power house. I'm not looking for petty arguments just stating my opinion.


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Former WWE contracted talent signed to AEW (Including developmental):
> 
> Arn Anderson, Billy Gunn, Brandi Rhodes, *Brian Cage*, Brodie Lee, Cash Wheeler, Chris Jericho, Cody Rhodes, Colt Cabana, Dasha, Dax Harwood, Dustin Rhodes, Erick Rowan, *Ivelisse*, Jake Hager, Jake Roberts, Jim Ross, Jon Moxley, Justin Roberts, *Kenny Omega*, *Lance Archer*, *Leva Bates*, Matt Cordona, Matt Hardy, Mike Chioda, PAC, Shawn Spears, Taz, *Tony Schiavone*, Trent, *Tully Blanchard*, Vickie Guerrero


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## Bret'Hitman'Hart (Jun 16, 2020)

One final thought would be this.

Jericho just lost to OC.

Sammy will beat Matt Hardy.

Jake Hager is a glorified jobbed.

Brodie Lee lost his title match and relegated to mid card drama. 

Cardona was a run in and nothing after that. 

Ftr has not been pushed above or beyond expectations.

That is just to name a few scenarios. I do not see how this has hurt the product at all.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

AEW really needs to go live every week if they're gonna allow fans in. Apparently, even with only 100 or so, there are spoiling assholes

I used to have a friend like this. He'd be like "you have to see this movie!" and then proceed to tell you everything that happened in it.


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## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

I think you use the term WWE guy too loosely but yes, they are signing to many guys that don't move the needle.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Let's say the spoilers were fake, that doesn't really change much of the core of the question. The question is how many more wrestlers need to come before AEW reaches "what is ___ doing in the Impact Zone". That became a long lasting mocking meme for a reason. While "get the best talent available" is a very sound strategy, perception can become reality. When your promotion isn't on the same level as WWE it can come off like you're getting the scraps, even if it makes all the business sense in the world. Because AEW doesn't have the same name brand recognition it's going to come off as a step down to anybody who isn't the type of fan who gets on message boards. It's a situation similar to UFC vs Bellator. Plenty of UFC guys who could still compete have went to Bellator. If you really follow MMA you know most were because of money issues with the Reebok deal. But for a normal fan it just looks like they're washed up fighting nobodies.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Former WWE contracted talent signed to AEW (Including developmental):
> 
> Arn Anderson, Billy Gunn, Brandi Rhodes, *Brian Cage*, Brodie Lee, Cash Wheeler, Chris Jericho, Cody Rhodes, Colt Cabana, Dasha, Dax Harwood, Dustin Rhodes, Erick Rowan, *Ivelisse*, Jake Hager, Jake Roberts, Jim Ross, Jon Moxley, Justin Roberts, *Kenny Omega*, *Lance Archer*, *Leva Bates*, Matt Cordona, Matt Hardy, Mike Chioda, PAC, Shawn Spears, Taz, *Tony Schiavone*, Trent, *Tully Blanchard*, Vickie Guerrero












A+ trolling. Good job, Chip


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

NXT Only said:


> Does this really matter? I mean honestly does it? Who’s cares where a guy worked. As long as they put on quality shows who cares?


Why are y'all pretending it doesn't matter. "what is ____ doing in the Impact Zone is a meme for a reason. TNA was putting on good shows and that meme was still a thing.


----------



## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

I agree that I'm not keen on seeing Rowan or Cardona in AEW as I feel that they have very little to give. But Mike Chioda? He's an experienced referree! I'm not a promoter but is there a large talent pool of referees in wrestling?

As for many of those on your list, a lot of those never amounted to much in WWE before establishing themselves elsewhere, or like in the case of Colt Cabana had already made their name in ROH years prior. Omega and Cage were only in FCW. The likes of Trent and Archer are far better known for work in either TNA, NJPW or ROH. Many of those older guys are useful for managing and producing and then you have your FTR, Cody, PAC and Moxley tier which are hot commodities. The ones on that list that really are treading water are Spears and Bates, who I see no point in having.

I agree that I would rather see all of those ROH names, especially Dalton Castle, in AEW and that I think they should put the brakes on WWE debuts. Food for thought though is that not a lot of indies are operating at this time, which could make recruitment more difficult.

By contrast, Impact have just debuted Brian Myers (Curt Hawkins) and put him in an open challenge against Eddie Edwards in the main event. The man famous for a losing streak as long as his career put up a fair fight against their champion. Let alone the additions of Heath, the Good Brothers and a returning Eric Young and EC3.

Let's be fair and acknowledge that they are currently pushing MJF towards the title, Darby Allin in the main event scene and not to mention the constant focus on Jurassic Express and the Dark Order (Brodie Lee aside). It is a breath of fresh air to watching main roster WWE with its silliness and lack of consistency and fits the bill while ROH isn't out taping.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

You're going to contiue to see slow burn proper focus on guys like darby, hangman, Kenny, sammy, santa,ortiz, mjf, jungle boy, oc , starks and many others like them. We have to understand the real storytelling of the show ams forget the other sjort tem elements that are in pockets of the show. 

I guarantee you most of these guys will not be in a aew-4 long-term or showcased long-term. The guys that are over aew is very aware who that is. Those are the ones getting the real slow burn story telling. Of course its insanely slow burn niw because aew has held off cus of covid. You can tell the way the not over guys are getting booked is just thrown in for now.

Aew listens and have done many changes because of that. Im not worried because dint forget that just as many as these guys thathavecome in has also been just as many young talent or just guys that people likelikeEddie lingston. In fact more new guys have come in that wwe guys.

I'm positive almost all of these guys are not going to make anything special themselves in aew cuz they just don't it. But it's clear that Tony is planning on expanding to 4 hours ir so of wrestling and the mix is fine. Brodee lee will be forgotten after his dark order trash.


I don't care for a single wwe guy in aew because i dont like how they've been program and there os no one thats a star in wwe. But it makes sense why they do it and most guys are either on short deals or year max. Aew is already getting rid of people with 1 year deals.
You wont see these guys around long
Give it a year and you will understand what I'm talking about


----------



## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

RapShepard said:


> Why are y'all pretending it doesn't matter. "what is ____ doing in the Impact Zone is a meme for a reason. TNA was putting on good shows and that meme was still a thing.


As a TNA fan during the 00's, it was very different. Initially, it was inevitable being a new promotion with zero competition other than WWE and in the wake of the collapse of both ECW and WCW. The problem wasn't with the Ravens, Angles or Christian Cages, the problem was with random jobbers coming in and taking wins over home grown talent. It was a funny joke around 2007 time but became a serious problem soon after when they would hire the likes of Booker T and not know what to do with him. As well as that, when they introduced new characters, they ended up creating such "beauties" as Black Reign and Rellik (That's killer spelt backwards). Had they booked themselves better and not come off as a carny act with a laser show, they might have pulled it off better. I won't even mention the Hogan attrocity.

Still, the days of the true X-Division had the best matches on TV at the time.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> Why are y'all pretending it doesn't matter. "what is ____ doing in the Impact Zone is a meme for a reason. TNA was putting on good shows and that meme was still a thing.


One difference between now and peak TNA is that WWE is less popular than ever, so maybe there are more people willing to consider an alternative rather than dismiss it as a punchline?

Also, another big difference is that WWE has massively bloated their roster since peak TNA, so even most decent indie guys get a run in WWE


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> Why are y'all pretending it doesn't matter. "what is ____ doing in the Impact Zone is a meme for a reason. TNA was putting on good shows and that meme was still a thing.


1- Because AEW isn't even close to that point yet. Especially if almost half the list of "former WWE employees" aren't synonymous with WWE, and, they ARE NOT *WRESTLERS* FFS.

2- And it had ZERO effect on the business until in 2010 when they flooded their product with Hogan and the real WWE crap was all over the place. I don't see AEW EVER becoming so stupid. The moment AEW announces bringing someone like Hogan and trash the product with WWE rejects everywhere, I'm no longer watching, and they better fucking know their audience.


If any of you is watching this show and thinks 'there's too many former WWE wrestlers" you aren't really watching the show, and you're especially not noticing and that besides Cody/Mox/Y2J, the former WWE guys take a back-seat to originals.
AND when you tell me guys like Omega, Trent and Archer should be considered "WWE rejects", I have to question your "criticism" as hate.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Dickhead1990 said:


> As a TNA fan during the 00's, it was very different. Initially, it was inevitable being a new promotion with zero competition other than WWE and in the wake of the collapse of both ECW and WCW. The problem wasn't with the Ravens, Angles or Christian Cages, the problem was with random jobbers coming in and taking wins over home grown talent. It was a funny joke around 2007 time but became a serious problem soon after when they would hire the likes of Booker T and not know what to do with him. Had they booked themselves better and not come off as a carny act with a laser show, they might have pulled it off better.
> 
> Still, the days of the true X-Division had the best matches on TV at the time.


As someone who never liked Christian I hated that he got elevated there lol. But yeah after a while it did kind of get ridiculous as the homegrown stars that folk were into constantly got pushed aside. I'd argue to a degree AEW are experiencing similar because their fresh names all seem to be spinning their wheels in the same spot except MJF and Hangman and they got Elite backing either officially or unofficially. But JE, Darby, and Sammy all seem to be perpetually stuck in this "we'll highlight you because you have something, but we don't know what quality wins to give you to really build you up". Like how many Darby constantly seems to be in a "this is a big moment for the kid" match that he losses in free TV. His only notable win is over Sammy who also rarely wins.


----------



## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

RapShepard said:


> As someone who never liked Christian I hated that he got elevated there lol. But yeah after a while it did kind of get ridiculous as the homegrown stars that folk were into constantly got pushed aside. I'd argue to a degree AEW are experiencing similar because their fresh names all seem to be spinning their wheels in the same spot except MJF and Hangman and they got Elite backing either officially or unofficially. But JE, Darby, and Sammy all seem to be perpetually stuck in this "we'll highlight you because you have something, but we don't know what quality wins to give you to really build you up". Like how many Darby constantly seems to be in a "this is a big moment for the kid" match that he losses in free TV. His only notable win is over Sammy who also rarely wins.


AEW's only been a weekly show for under a year, so it's not surprising that they haven't pushed them to the moon yet. They all have years left in them, so a slow burn is probably best. In Darby's case, I see a slow burning mega heel turn coming on. That'll be where his push comes from.

Sammy will need to get out of Jericho's shadow first, but they've done a good job to make me appreciate him. I hated him at first and couldn't take him seriously, but their booking of him has changed my opinion. I can compare him to The Miz in the sense that he has a very punchable face and has the profile of someone who shouldn't be a wrestler, but their heel work is immense. The only differences are that Sammy is immensely more talented and the Miz took over a decade to reach that stage.

Also, we just saw Orange Cassidy main eventing again!

In other words, it's obvious it's coming, but give them a bit more time. If we're still here in two years time, then I will agree.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

I have said before a couple times that I have never really understood this criticism. I feel like I am missing something.

The industries I have worked in are pretty incestuous. When there are two or three major companies in an industry, most people have worked for all of them. If a higher up person joins my company having never worked for the competition it is actually a bit weird considering they have no background in the industry. When you are close to a monopoly in an industry for a time, almost everyone talented is going to have been there at one point or another.

So to help me better understand this, I am going to try to break it down into two categories: guys who were either stars or potential stars in WWE and then guys who happened to be in WWE but were used as enhancement talent or jobbers. Two very different categories to me. Guys change teams in professional sports constantly. But you do not bring in that guy who sucked for years as a third string blocker unless you really see something others missed.

Also, I do not consider guys who were in WWE for a cup of coffee but are mainly known for their work in other companies to be in either category honestly. I cannot see anyone calling Tony Schiavone or Kenny Omega ex-WWE guys even if they were technically employed for a bit.

My thought on the first category is GOOD, they need those guys for the most part. Chris Jericho is the biggest star they have other than his work in the past several weeks. If someone started a wrestling company based in the US with NO ex-WWE guys, would anyone know who anyone was? I get that people think Kenny was big in Japan, but no one here knows who he is. It takes stars to make stars. Hogan put WCW on the map for a reason.

Now the second category might be what most are focusing on, but the arguments usually come across as "ex-WWE always bad" to me which makes no sense. WWE job guys or people who have some idea of the star value they have in their head being vastly different than what everyone else sees is a problem. There can be a stigma of, "wow that guy who was staring at the lights for Santino is now being pushed in this other company." So I get that. But you do have to bring on people that your audience will recognize. Matt Hardy doing what he has the last few weeks is a good example. No one hated the teleporting more than I did. But when he dropped that and went back to normal Matt feuding with Sammy, I am very good with it. It will help elevate Sammy assuming they are not dumb enough to have Matt win, which I am not denying could happen given history. But it SHOULD work if they do it right.

I see the bigger issue being the schizophrenic product more than guys who happened to have worked in WWE. Brodie Lee in a good story with a good character would be infinitely better, I would think. Bringing in Hulk Cardona to fight in tag matches with a guy who is 5'4 is just dumb. I am not a big fan of Cardona, but he at least looks the part. Give me him any day over Jelly, Sonny, Nakazawa, Chuck Taylor, Marko Stunt, Orange Cassidy, or other bottom tier guys Vince would never hire for $1.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Definition of Technician said:


> 1- Because AEW isn't even close to that point yet. Especially if almost half the list of "former WWE employees" aren't synonymous with WWE, and, they ARE NOT *WRESTLERS* FFS.


Yeah including the developmental contracts and folk like Archer made little sense. But pretending they don't have a lot of ex-WWE talent is facetious. They do it's undeniable. Not as much as Chip said, but not as few as you're pretending. I mean you can't ignore the fact that the 3 singles male champions they've had reached their biggest heights in WWE. Does that mean they shouldn't be used, of course not. But facts is facts. 



> 2- And it had ZERO effect on the business until in 2010 when they flooded their product with Hogan and the real WWE crap was all over the place. I don't see AEW EVER becoming so stupid. The moment AEW announces bringing someone like Hogan and trash the product with WWE rejects everywhere, I'm no longer watching, and they better fucking know their audience.


And this is why perception is reality is such an important thing. You're right things for TNA didn't effect business wise until Hogan and Russo and the likes came. In the real world TNA factually did better ratings and shit with Hogan and Russo. But perception wise for fans like us, it lost its identity. If the perception ever becomes "yo AEW brings in a lot of WWE talent" ever sticks it's going to become hard to shake. Sure in reality the signings have been pretty even this year

WWE- Hardy, Brodie, Vickie, and Ryder
Not WWE- Archer, Cage, Vance Archer, Starks

But unfortunately because the WWE names are perceived bigger and factually bigger, it over shadows that they're pretty damn balanced. 




> If any of you is watching this show and thinks 'there's too many former WWE wrestlers" you aren't really watching the show, and you're especially not noticing and that besides Cody/Mox/Y2J, the former WWE guys take a back-seat to originals.
> AND when you tell me guys like Omega, Trent and Archer should be considered "WWE rejects", I have to question your "criticism" as hate.


See this is when I question are you really watching the show. Because it really feels like the best way to get quality TV time is to be a member of The Elite or be an ex-WWE name. Case in point FTR has been in the company for all of 6-7 weeks and they've already been in a bigger and more important story than JE has despite fans being keen on them getting a push before TV. Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee debuted and walked into main event and world title matches respectively. Meanwhile MJF is just now getting a title shot despite having more kayfabe reason to get one over fresh debut Brodie. This is going to be the first post TV world title match to not feature someone who isn't a WWE name.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

You fuck up your argument when you label Omega, Cage as wwe guys simply because they orked developmental there a decade ago. Arn, Tully, Schiavone are WCW guys, RnR Express are not WWE guys. Cody and Brandi are EVP's of the friggin company now. Nobody remembers Scotty Goldman's two matches as a jobber in WWE. Archer, Ivelisse, Trent are not identified as "wwe guys". 

"Worked for" is a disingenuous metric.

Take away those stretches and your list is now -

Billy Gunn, Brodie Lee, Cash Wheeler, Chris Jericho, Cody Rhodes, Dasha, Dax Harwood, Dustin Rhodes, Jake Hager, Jake Roberts, Jim Ross, Jon Moxley, Justin Roberts, Matt Cardona, Matt Hardy, Mike Chioda, PAC, Shawn Spears, Taz, Vickie Guerrero.

On a 100+ roster at this stage. 

AEW only hires people they know. They're very protective of the backstage/lockerroom atmosphere and company culture.


----------



## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

You use the association with WWE too loosely.

You have your names that are solely associated with WWE and/or NXT:

Billy Gunn – WWE guy that I don’t know why he’s here, tbh. Thought the same thing when he was in NJPW. Does anyone even remember his run in TNA?

Brandi Rhodes – WWE ring announcer

Brodie Lee – misused WWE guy whose current ring name originated on the indies.

Cameron – don’t know why she’s here.

Cash Wheeler – NXT guy

Cody Rhodes – In ring career started in WWE

Dasha – NXT announcer and recently been on the Titan Games host by Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson

Dax Harwood – NXT guy

Erick Rowan – misused WWE guy that I do not know why he’s here

Jake Hager – WWE guy turned Bellator MMA fighter

Justin Roberts – WWE PG era announcer that was the ring announcer for All In

Matt Cardona – WWE star that got buried because he got himself over all by himself. And they wanted to use his pool after releasing him. He was treated like a chump over there.

Matt Hardy – WWE legend that was signed for his Broken Matt gimmick.

Mike Chioda – WWE ref that no one expected to be release due to his long tenure there

Rachael Ellering – underutilized NXT talent and former Mae Young Classic competitor who’s also the daughter of the legendary Paul Ellering.

Shawn Spears – underutilized NXT talent

Tay Conti – underutilized NXT talent and former Mae Young Classic competitor


There you have your talents that are not solely synonymous with WWE. They are either synonymous with another promotion, or are a world class name:

Arn Anderson – WCW guy. The Four Horsemen > The Brainbusters

Brian Cage – Lucha Underground guy

Chris Jericho – world class name who left WWE after 20 years for NJPW, and now AEW. He'll always be a WCW guy to me.

Colt Cabana – indy guy made famous by CM Punk’s pipebomb promo.

Dustin Rhodes – 30 year veteran

Eric Bischoff – former WCW President that beat Vince McMahon and WWF for 83 weeks and almost put WWF out of business in the late ‘90s.

Ivelisse – Lucha Underground star

Jake Roberts – wrestling legend

Jim Ross – world class commentator & wrestling legend

Jon Moxley – CZW guy turned (misused) WWE guy

Kenny Omega – NJPW superstar first, DDT second. No one cares about his time in WWE developmental.

Lance Archer – TNA guy that remade himself in NJPW. His WWE run is forgotten.

Leva Bates – cosplayer that was featured a handful of times in NXT.

Madusa – just as famous for her WWE run as she is for dumping the Women’s championship in the trash on an episode of WCW Nitro and her time with the Dangerous Alliance.

PAC – NXT guy and former WWE cruiserweight champion that removed the WWE stench and remade himself in DragonGate.

Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson – ‘80s tag legends

Taz – ECW legend and commentator for both WWE and TNA.

Tony Schiavone – WCW guy. No one remembers his run in the early ‘90s WWF.

Trent – NJPW, PWG & ROH guy

Tully Blanchard – WCW guy. The Four Horsemen > The Brainbusters


And then there’s Vickie Guerrero & Shaul Guerrero, who are signed because of their last name. The Guerrero family is wrestling royalty too.

As said, labeling everyone as a former WWE star is a label thrown around too loosely. Is MJF a former WWE star because of his brief appearance on WWE tv as a security guard? I think we all know that WWE's been the only major show in town for decades and everyone will have to pass through it at some point if they want to make a living in pro wrestling.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Dickhead1990 said:


> AEW's only been a weekly show for under a year, so it's not surprising that they haven't pushed them to the moon yet. They all have years left in them, so a slow burn is probably best. In Darby's case, I see a slow burning mega heel turn coming on. That'll be where his push comes from.
> 
> Sammy will need to get out of Jericho's shadow first, but they've done a good job to make me appreciate him. I hated him at first and couldn't take him seriously, but their booking of him has changed my opinion. I can compare him to The Miz in the sense that he has a very punchable face and has the profile of someone who shouldn't be a wrestler, but their heel work is immense. The only differences are that Sammy is immensely more talented and the Miz took over a decade to reach that stage.
> 
> ...


I don't think they're doomed because it's wrestling things can turn at the drop of a hat. But I do think they're putting them in a spot where they're going to have to dig them out of. They've established they are important, but also that they are losers (which is why a visible W/L record is bad). It's kind of like what's happening with Buddy Murphy on Raw. Obviously they see something in him, because he's with Rollins and getting time. On the flip because he's with Rollins you know he's going to lose to build up Rollins opponent.


----------



## Foreign Object (Mar 18, 2017)

There's a vast number of ex-WWE performers who had enough talent to achieve greater things with the career, but were either poorly used by WWE or simply not given the opportunity to reach their full potential. If AEW is signing ex-WWE guys and giving them the opportunity to present themselves in a better light, I don't have a problem with it at all. If the talent is good, it doesn't matter where they've come from, only that they're used in an interesting and entertaining way. That said, so far I've found Brodie Lee's AEW career kind of a disappointment.


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

There is much worse than Eric Rowan on AEW TV trust me. Get rid of Sonny Kiss, Nakazawa, etc.....


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

AEW would be crazy to pass up somebody they think could be a star just because they were once a WWE guy, that said, are they really signing people like Zack Ryder and Erick Rowan because they think they can be stars?

I don't really get what AEW is doing with their signings, it just seems like they're trying to fill out their roster with roleplayers but why sign Zack Ryder to be a roleplayers instead of getting somebody unknown, not only will it be cheaper but you never know, they could miraculously end up stars, there's no miracle strong enough to save Zack Ryder.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> AEW would be crazy to pass up somebody they think could be a star just because they were once a WWE guy, that said, are they really signing people like Zack Ryder and Erick Rowan because they think they can be stars?
> 
> I don't really get what AEW is doing with their signings, it just seems like they're trying to fill out their roster with roleplayers but why sign Zack Ryder to be a roleplayers instead of getting somebody unknown, not only will it be cheaper but you never know, they could miraculously end up stars, there's no miracle strong enough to save Zack Ryder.


I guess the logic is name value and they have experience with TV to pass down. Though I feel like they already have enough of that already.


----------



## Jokerface17 (Feb 22, 2016)

Aj Styles
Bobby Roode
Drew Galloway
Bobby Lashley
Road Dogg
Booker T
Brian Kendrick
Christian
Xavier Woods
Mickie James
MVP
R-Truth
Ric Flair
Samoa Joe
Mia Yim
Roderick Strong
Jeremy Borash
Trevor Lee
Rockstar Spud
Bobby Fish
John Morrison
Funaki 
Johnny Gargano
Chelsea Green
Jeff Hardy
Fandango
Killer Kross
Seth Rollins
Mercedes Martinez
Shinsuke Nakamura 
Tony Nese
Joaquin Wilde 
Dexter Lumis
Robert Stone 
Gunner
Zelina Vega
Abyss 
Sonjay dutt 




Do you know what these guys all have in common? They’re all former TNA/Impact employees and they’re all currently signed by WWE. So is it now lolwwe? 

Can we please just shut the fuck up about companies hiring someone that’s worked somewhere else? In the real world that’s how it works, it’s a normal occurrence. Stop shitting on AEW or impact because they use someone from somewhere else. WWE does it just as much as they do. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## The Sheik (Jul 10, 2017)

So once these guys get cut from WWE. AEW shouldn't be an option for them? That's fucking stupid. If they have notoriety and talent, then sign them to see if AEW can do what WWE can't, make them into a star.


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## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> Yeah including the developmental contracts and folk like Archer made little sense. But pretending they don't have a lot of ex-WWE talent is facetious. They do it's undeniable. Not as much as Chip said, but not as few as you're pretending. I mean you can't ignore the fact that the 3 singles male champions they've had reached their biggest heights in WWE. Does that mean they shouldn't be used, of course not. But facts is facts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nah, I just don't see it as a big deal because I know it serves the bigger picture.
FTR should be treated as the top team, they should beat Omega/Page for the titles, and then have the epic feud with Bucks that many fans have been waiting for. Of course JE are going to take a back-seat for them, no brainer. Once FTR are established in AEW, they can start losing more to people like BE and JE.

MJF beat Cody and was then gone for like 4 weeks of TV before beating and feuding with Jungle Boy for the next couple of months. Going from Cody to anyone not named Moxley was going to look bad for MJF, but him being gone for a month and then filling time with Jungle Boy, was a great filler feud that provided a MOTYC and best match for both men's careers, and built seeds for later.
Why would AEW do Mox/MJF immediately if they could save the match and do Brodie/Mox as a filler feud?
AEW didn't have any top heels and Brodie was as good as any to be a filler for a while to save MJF for later.

What about Matt Hardy? Again he came in, got some wins and credibility, and he's now putting and will put Sammy over.

It would look worse for them to bring them in, and have lose meaningless mid-card matches.

Also, it's arguable if "Cody reached his biggest heights in WWE", he made a name for himself outside of WWE and is the EVP of the company. I also don't care for non-wrestlers talents like Vickie, JR, etc.. I focus on the wrestlers.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Sheik said:


> So once these guys get cut from WWE. AEW shouldn't be an option for them? That's fucking stupid. If they have notoriety and talent, then sign them to see if AEW can do what WWE can't, make them into a star.


I'm suggesting AEW should be more picky. They don't need Cordona, they don't need Rowan (If he's signed), they don't need Vickie Guerrero, they don't need any of the guests that turned up. Take that money and use it on guys that could be seen as AEW guys.

That's my only point, I'm being told I'm wrong a lot.


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm suggesting AEW should be more picky. They don't need Cordona, they don't need Rowan (If he's signed), they don't need Vickie Guerrero, they don't need any of the guests that turned up. Take that money and use it on guys that could be seen as AEW guys.
> 
> That's my only point, I'm being told I'm wrong a lot.


You troll hard & it came back to bite you - that is all


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Definition of Technician said:


> Nah, I just don't see it as a big deal because I know it serves the bigger picture.
> FTR should be treated as the top team, they should beat Omega/Page for the titles, and then have the epic feud with Bucks that many fans have been waiting for. Of course JE are going to take a back-seat for them, no brainer. Once FTR are established in AEW, they can start losing more to people like BE and JE.


The point is more so JE have been around the entire time and have never had a real feud. Meanwhile FTR walked into a big one 



> MJF beat Cody and was then gone for like 4 weeks of TV before beating and feuding with Jungle Boy for the next couple of months. Going from Cody to anyone not named Moxley was going to look bad for MJF, but him being gone for a month and then filling time with Jungle Boy, was a great filler feud that provided a MOTYC and best match for both men's careers, and built seeds for later.
> Why would AEW do Mox/MJF immediately if they could save the match and do Brodie/Mox as a filler feud?
> AEW didn't have any top heels and Brodie was as good as any to be a filler for a while to save MJF for later.


He wasn't gone 4 weeks he was mostly in the HR crowd gambling. And imagine cooling off MJF coming off a big win to do filler feuds with him and Moxley. 



> What about Matt Hardy? Again he came in, got some wins and credibility, and he's now putting and will put Sammy over.
> 
> It would look worse for them to bring them in, and have lose meaningless mid-card matches.


We'd hope so but it's no guarantee, it's not like he hasn't already beat him. 



> Also, it's arguable if "Cody reached his biggest heights in WWE", he made a name for himself outside of WWE and is the EVP of the company.


It's not arguable at all, it's like arguing Jeff Jarrett was biggest in TNA because he helped found it.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> The point is more so JE have been around the entire time and have never had a real feud. Meanwhile FTR walked into a big one
> 
> 
> He wasn't gone 4 weeks he was mostly in the HR crowd gambling. And imagine cooling off MJF coming off a big win to do filler feuds with him and Moxley.
> ...


There was no room for them on Dynamite. It's just the way it is. They had a little story to highlight Jungle Boy (with Y2J), and JE were picking up wins on Dark, but they were behind Dark Order, Best Friends, SCU, and they then had JE feuding with MJF/Wardlow. You just can't ignore that, yeah FTR walked in but it still DO/BE were ahead of them for a while, but you're nitpicking because JE weren't too?
There's a little rotation system going on for AEW originals, while yes WWE guys get spotlight initially, to make sure they seem as credible, but it's not like you're saying where

So what would you have done with MJF? Have him lose to Moxley after beating Cody so Moxley faces Cage or Brodie at All Out? Do you think those matches are bigger than MJF/Mox?

Jeff was a WCW guy because he was a WCW world champion.
Cody was mid-carder in WWE, who spent a lot of time doing a lot of nothing. Who reached incredible success on the indys no one thought was possible, and is now an EVP of a company and their first TNT world champion, it's not hard for people to see Cody as a non-WWE guy, and this is going to be more apparent in a few years as AEW grows.


----------



## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

AEW doesn't need a lot of the talent that they signed before the recent WWE releases happened, but Khan signed them anyway just because he can.

I've never seen the big deal of wrestling companies signing talent from elsewhere. They have all done it. Sometimes I wonder what the state of WWEs roster would be if a lot of TNAs old roster stayed in TNA the whole time instead of going to WWE. Jeremy freaking Borash, who was known for doing a lot in TNA, still works for WWE.

Before then, wrestlers jumped between WWE and WCW all the time. I doubt very many were like "Look at WWF using castaways from WCW and ECW" back in the 90s.

Khan simply can't help himself signing wrestlers that he likes though since he has the money. That is his decision. Nothing to worry about.

AEW will still have its separate identity because they do things differently from WWE with their shows.


----------



## sjm76 (Feb 23, 2017)

I don't mind the Rowan signing if he has a new look as he was always a pretty good big man wrestler. Brodie Lee said that he didn't want AEW to sign Rowan before so people don't confuse them again but he may have changed his mind since Rowan has a different look.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Definition of Technician said:


> There was no room for them on Dynamite. It's just the way it is. They had a little story to highlight Jungle Boy, and JE were picking up wins on Dark, but they were behind Dark Order, Best Friends, SCU, and they JE were feuding with MJF/Wardlow. You just can't ignore that, yeah FTR walked in but it still DO/BE were ahead of them for a while, but you're nitpicking because JE weren't too?
> There's a little rotation system going on for AEW originals, while yes WWE guys get spotlight initially, to make sure they seem as credible, but it's not like you're saying where


The fact that JE has been over and has never had a big story, yet FTR has one is something to take note of. You know for a fact FTR story is being treated bigger than anything JE has done. It just shows how WWE guys can take the spotlight easily. 



> So what would you have done with MJF? Have him lose to Moxley after beating Cody so Moxley faces Cage or Brodie at All Out? Do you think those matches are bigger than MJF/Mox?


This can't be a serious question. Yes you go with MJF coming off a big win over Cody and put him against Moxley at DoN 2. That makes way more sense than Brodie just debuting and getting a title shot with no credible wins. 



> Jeff was a WCW guy because he was a WCW world champion.
> Cody was mid-carder in WWE, who spent a lot of time doing a lot of nothing. Who reached incredible success on the indys no one thought was possible, and is now an EVP of a company and their first TNT world champion, it's not hard for people to see Cody as a non-WWE guy, and this is going to be more apparent in a few years as AEW grows.


Cody got his name because of being in the WWE, he has the reach he has because of the decade he spent in WWE. He's certainly killed it outside of WWE, but pretending that he isn't a WWE guy is silly as fuck. More people saw him in WWE than they have in ROH, NJPW, Impact, and AEW combined.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> The fact that JE has been over and has never had a big story, yet FTR has one is something to take note of. You know for a fact FTR story is being treated bigger than anything JE has done. It just shows how WWE guys can take the spotlight easily.
> 
> 
> This can't be a serious question. Yes you go with MJF coming off a big win over Cody and put him against Moxley at DoN 2. That makes way more sense than Brodie just debuting and getting a title shot with no credible wins.
> ...


Again, I know that, but FTR are bigger stars and it's the right feud to do now. Hell, you had people complaining FTR were killed dead in the water from the beginning for feuding with Butcher and Blade. FTR/Bucks was a feud built in before AEW existed, it was going to take priority over everything else. I don't see the big issue with JE as you do as I said, you had Best Friends and DO higher ranked. Once FTR settles in and do their big feud, we can see how much JE are held back.

Nah, you don't. All Out is the biggest PPV of the year, you do the biggest main event you can. Imagine Cena facing Khali at Wrestlemania 23 and then HBK at Judgment Day. 

First, How many people that saw Cody from 2007-2013 do you think are still watching? 
Cody has no career highlights in WWE besides being a lackey to Orton. You're undermining the name of RHODES, he didn't reach the success he did post-WWE because he spent a decade there, that's so ridiculous, you would have seen many released talent reached that success if that was the case. Where is Ryback's success or Hager before AEW? 
Cody is (if he's not already) going to be known more of his name, for being an AEW EVP and for his success on the indys (becoming the symbol you can make "a lot of money on the indys"). 
Cody was nowhere close to Ambrose or Y2J in WWE, yet he is much closer to them in level of star power in AEW due his brand outside of WWE.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Gonna put this right here: I'd rather watch Erick Rowan than Orange Cassidy 🤷‍♂️

Not a signing I have a problem with, he's big, intimidating and not bad in the ring. I mean, the roster is getting too big, but if they can offset it by getting rid of the deadweight, then that's fine.

Maybe they can put him with Archer in a team, or will he join Brodie? Are these spoilers even real?

The whole 'ex-WWE' argument is _so_ tiresome, it's unbelievable. Almost everyone has passed through their doors in the last 20 years. It's all about the here and now, how the wrestler is promoted and presented. Moxley now feels like an AEW wrestler, not a former WWE guy, because he's presented in a different way. Ditto Cody.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Definition of Technician said:


> Again, I know that, but FTR are bigger stars and it's the right feud to do now. Hell, you had people complaining FTR were killed dead in the water from the beginning for feuding with Butcher and Blade. FTR/Bucks was a feud built in before AEW existed, it was going to take priority over everything else. I don't see the big issue with JE as you do as I said, you had Best Friends and DO higher ranked. Once FTR settles in and do their big feud, we can see how much JE are held back.


FTR deserve shine, the point is that JE was seen as one of their sure fire tag hits and they've mostly just been there, while FTR walked into importance. Nobody would've predicted they'd be irrelevant in the tag title scene. 



> Nah, you don't. All Out is the biggest PPV of the year, you do the biggest main event you can. Imagine Cena facing Khali at Wrestlemania 23 and then HBK at Judgment Day.


 Are you really acting like DoN is a B PPV? DoN is their first official PPV ever, if it's not their Mania, it would be their SummerSlam. 



> First, How many people that saw Cody from 2007-2013 do you think are still watching?
> Cody has no career highlights in WWE besides being a lackey to Orton. You're undermining the name of RHODES, he didn't reach the success he did post-WWE because he spent a decade there, that's so ridiculous, you would have seen many released talent reached that success if that was the case. Where is Ryback's success or Hager before AEW?
> Cody is (if he's not already) going to be known more of his name, for being an AEW EVP and for his success on the indys (becoming the symbol you can make "a lot of money on the indys").
> Cody was nowhere close to Ambrose or Y2J in WWE, yet he is much closer to them in level of star power in AEW due his brand outside of WWE.


1st off Cody was in WWE until 2016. Are we going to ignore shit like Dashing Cody Rhodes, Undashing Cody Rhodes, he brought back the old IC belt, him and Goldust taking the belt of the Shield making them one of if not the first to beat them, and even as Stardust the man got a match with Stephen Amell at SummerSlam (which led to him getting a tv role). What's more likely that someone remembers him for those or they remember that he had a championship ring in ROH?

If you want to say he has a more important spot on the card sure. That doesn't mean he's at a bigger point in his career though. It's like when Christian went to TNA sure he was higher up the card, but he wasn't a bigger star because he had less eyes on him. As far as being closer to Moxley and Jericho than when he was in WWE that's due to the freshness of the AEW roster.


----------



## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

RapShepard said:


> I don't think they're doomed because it's wrestling things can turn at the drop of a hat. But I do think they're putting them in a spot where they're going to have to dig them out of. They've established they are important, but also that they are losers (which is why a visible W/L record is bad). It's kind of like what's happening with Buddy Murphy on Raw. Obviously they see something in him, because he's with Rollins and getting time. On the flip because he's with Rollins you know he's going to lose to build up Rollins opponent.


I think for the new blood in AEW, they have youth on their side. They might be established to lose now, but of course the likes of Darby Allin are going to lose to John Moxley at this stage. A year ago, no one knew who he was. I see what you say about the win/loss record, but one day they will go on a streak. Like I say, early days and these are just the foundations.

As for Murphy, no idea as I quit even looking at results for WWE lately.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Here comes Big Wood to drop the leg. I’ve kind of missed tearing apart fanboys.



RelivingTheShadow said:


> I'll respond to this when I'm out of work, but hopefully you can acknowledge how much of a moron you are for immediately believing an unsubstantiated report, to the point your hate boner flared up so much that you decided to write a this long of a post.
> 
> You clearly have an agenda.


Stop insulting people because they don’t agree with you. That counts as trolling here. I’ve received temporary bans for less.

Since I’ve taken a break, it seems all the hate that went towards me has been seamlessly redirected, even towards posters who generally received praise when I was more active (Chip was the AEW fanboy whisperer). When it comes to agendas, maybe you should all look yourselves in the mirror?

And regardless of whether this report is true or not, that it can make smart posters think it’s true tells a story in itself. 



Pippen94 said:


> Chip I don't work in the business like you but think the expression is you got worked


You don’t know what working is either, haha. I don’t know if I’ve seen you use a wrestling term accurately.



The Definition of Technician said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1293940160783056897


So they’re obviously concerned about it (for the people who say it doesn’t matter).



Jman55 said:


> The problem is you often count people who should not at all count as ex WWE stars. People like Archer, Cage, Omega, Trent. Yes technically they were in WWE but there's not a god damn person in the world who sees them and thinks of their time there. Hell for Archer more people think of him for his time in TNA before he was in WWE than his WWE run it was noticeable when he first signed and people were referring to him as "that guy with the tramp stamp from TNA".
> 
> There are definitely some questionable ones that do fit what you are saying such as Matt Cardona (who is someone I like and am ok with signing but does create that kind of image) or Vickie Guerrero but you using the ones that aren't real examples causes people to not take your points seriously yet you keep doing it. Plus your other examples to push this narrative like Cody, Moxley and Jericho are the big stars so are exceptions cause they need to be in those main event or high profile positions for that reason and not due to their WWE time.


More people watched Trent in WWE than have ever watched him in AEW. I’m sorry, but that’s just a fact.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Here comes Big Wood to drop the leg. I’ve kind of missed tearing apart fanboys
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your only source of enjoyment - trolling same message board for 17 years.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

paying attention carefully to everything I do not see at all all these guys we hate being around long term so its not a problem. Thats why these guys are thrown into things now with no character development no long term story burn. They are getting what they can from these guys now and they are not part of the greater picture


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Since I’ve taken a break, it seems all the hate that went towards me has been seamlessly redirected, even towards posters who generally received praise when I was more active (Chip was the AEW fanboy whisperer).


You know, I'm not sure if I wrote this before or I was going to write this in response to someone but a few days ago I was thinking the exact same thing. I went from being "Oh he's alright I respect that he at least is constructive with his criticism" to people saying they're going to fuck my girlfriend and swearing at me. 

Admittedly I do have people I'm friendly with on the "other side" but with you gone and Cult03 posting less and less I was really the biggest target remaining and have now copped the hate.


----------



## Jman55 (Nov 21, 2016)

The Wood said:


> More people watched Trent in WWE than have ever watched him in AEW. I’m sorry, but that’s just a fact.


No shit I didn't say that wasn't the case I said that no one thinks about that run cause though there were more people watching, his run in WWE meant fuck all as he was nothing short of enhancement talent before he left and formed the Best Friends team. No WWE fan watching then would remember he existed the people who know the guy exists are likely hardcore fans/AEW fans (cause though there's more of an overlap than some would admit exist it's obviously not all of them as that is asinine) half of whom prob also don't know that WWE run existed cause he was so background filler.

AEW does have talent that come across as WWE castoffs (I mentioned Cardona and Guerrero but there's also Spears, Hager and sadly though I enjoy him Brodie Lee who have also been similar for me though Hager is slightly justifiable in terms of his MMA career.....very slightly) and I said in my post I get there is some cause for concern here. Of course you ignored that to randomly target my inclusion of Trent rather than address the actual point which is that people aren't taking a potential issue seriously cause you and Chip are over extending the web of what actually applies to that issue to a ridiculous degree.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

zkorejo said:


>


Where are the lies? All those people did work in the WWE. 



Pippen94 said:


> Your only source of enjoyment - trolling same message board for 17 years.


I haven't been around for 17 years. Signed up in 2003 and then posted a few times and came back a few years ago. But sure, make stuff up. You're one of the biggest attempted trolls on these forums. Make an actual point. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> You know, I'm not sure if I wrote this before or I was going to write this in response to someone but a few days ago I was thinking the exact same thing. I went from being "Oh he's alright I respect that he at least is constructive with his criticism" to people saying they're going to fuck my girlfriend and swearing at me.
> 
> Admittedly I do have people I'm friendly with on the "other side" but with you gone and Cult03 posting less and less I was really the biggest target remaining and have now copped the hate.


I don't want you to think that your chipper demeanour isn't charming and valuable -- it certainly is -- but I think it's because a lot of posters (not all) are disingenuous. They want someone to hate. When I was here, I could be that heel, so they'd babyface even the other "heels" to try and flame me instead of engaging with my actual points, and when I'm not around, they'll turn someone else, even if that post has done nothing to deserve it, hasn't changed their disposition at all, and even if they claimed to like that poster's content. It's probably some sort of defence mechanism because they're insecure in their fandom. 



Jman55 said:


> No shit I didn't say that wasn't the case I said that no one thinks about that run cause though there were more people watching, his run in WWE meant fuck all as he was nothing short of enhancement talent before he left and formed the Best Friends team. No WWE fan watching then would remember he existed the people who know the guy exists are likely hardcore fans/AEW fans (cause though there's more of an overlap than some would admit exist it's obviously not all of them as that is asinine) half of whom prob also don't know that WWE run existed cause he was so background filler.
> 
> AEW does have talent that come across as WWE castoffs (I mentioned Cardona and Guerrero but there's also Spears, Hager and sadly though I enjoy him Brodie Lee who have also been similar for me though Hager is slightly justifiable in terms of his MMA career.....very slightly) and I said in my post I get there is some cause for concern here. Of course you ignored that to randomly target my inclusion of Trent rather than address the actual point which is that people aren't taking a potential issue seriously cause you and Chip are over extending the web of what actually applies to that issue to a ridiculous degree.


No, more people are aware of that run than are aware he's ever stepped foot into an AEW ring. Good, bad or indifferent, there are hundreds of thousands, possibly millions more people (especially globally) that would recognise that obscure guy from The Dudebusters than that obscure guy from the Best Friends. Just because _you_ don't think about that run doesn't mean it isn't immensely more recognisable.

If he's lucky, at the end of his career, his Wikipedia page might say "He's perhaps best known for working in All Elite Wrestling, where he was in the comedic tag team Best Friends with Chuck Taylor. He is also known for his appearances in WWE, New Japan Pro-Wrestling and Ring of Honor." But let's not pretend that even a largely insignificant run in WWE is not going to make his career overview.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Wood said:


> I don't want you to think that your chipper demeanour isn't charming and valuable -- it certainly is -- but I think it's because a lot of posters (not all) are disingenuous. They want someone to hate. When I was here, I could be that heel, so they'd babyface even the other "heels" to try and flame me instead of engaging with my actual points, and when I'm not around, they'll turn someone else, even if that post has done nothing to deserve it, hasn't changed their disposition at all, and even if they claimed to like that poster's content. It's probably some sort of defence mechanism because they're insecure in their fandom.


Honestly a few of them seemed like they had lost a lot of meaning in their lives without you to respond to. They definitely kept mentioning you a lot, especially in the ratings thread. And just like that, you come out as a surprise entrant in a rumble and they breathe a collective sigh of relief.


----------



## Jman55 (Nov 21, 2016)

The Wood said:


> No, more people are aware of that run than are aware he's ever stepped foot into an AEW ring. Good, bad or indifferent, there are hundreds of thousands, possibly millions more people (especially globally) that would recognise that obscure guy from The Dudebusters than that obscure guy from the Best Friends. Just because _you_ don't think about that run doesn't mean it isn't immensely more recognisable.
> 
> If he's lucky, at the end of his career, his Wikipedia page might say "He's perhaps best known for working in All Elite Wrestling, where he was in the comedic tag team Best Friends with Chuck Taylor. He is also known for his appearances in WWE, New Japan Pro-Wrestling and Ring of Honor." But let's not pretend that even a largely insignificant run in WWE is not going to make his career overview.


I would doubt it but I admit maybe I am projecting a bit too much in terms of my own thinking so I will concede the Trent point. But focusing on Trent doesn't magically negate my point. I don't think of you as a troll like some do and actually am fine with reading your posts (I definitely think there's some anti AEW bias but everyone has biases why tf should I care you at least justify where it comes from) so I'd like more of a response to my actual point in that though I got one example wrong overall Chip has been casting the net way too far imo in terms of what constitutes someone being labelled an ex WWE guy. He's not technically wrong given them being under contract and I agree there are hints of a problem though only hints so far at least (the fact I could name 5 examples of iffy choices is concerning though and can add a 6th in Hardy someone I never wanted signed in an on screen capacity when everyone was talking about) He is going overboard in how he presents his worries over this issue naming people who only count as a technicality (very strange for Chip to do as they are a great poster tbh)


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lheurch said:


> Honestly a few of them seemed like they had lost a lot of meaning in their lives without you to respond to. They definitely kept mentioning you a lot, especially in the ratings thread. And just like that, you come out as a surprise entrant in a rumble and they breathe a collective sigh of relief.


Haha, that doesn't surprise me. I honestly did need a break from this place (not you beautiful Cynical fuckers of course), but maybe I'll stick my head in a bit more just to catch some of the heat. 



Jman55 said:


> I would doubt it but I admit maybe I am projecting a bit too much in terms of my own thinking so I will concede the Trent point. But focusing on Trent doesn't magically negate my point. I don't think of you as a troll like some do and actually am fine with reading your posts (I definitely think there's some anti AEW bias but everyone has biases why tf should I care you at least justify where it comes from) so I'd like more of a response to my actual point in that though I got one example wrong overall Chip has been casting the net way too far imo in terms of what constitutes someone being labelled an ex WWE guy. He's not technically wrong given them being under contract and I agree there are hints of a problem though only hints so far at least (the fact I could name 5 examples of iffy choices is concerning though and can add a 6th in Hardy someone I never wanted signed in an on screen capacity when everyone was talking about) He is going overboard in how he presents his worries over this issue naming people who only count as a technicality (very strange for Chip to do as they are a great poster tbh)


Sorry if I sounded terse. Sometimes I can be very direct in my points. I personally don't think it matters if Trent was in the WWE or not. It is a good look to discover talent on your own and you don't want to take scraps -- for perception reasons at the very least. Well, perception is very important. If someone is in WWE and decides to leave, by all means look at them. Or if they are a unique talent that you absolutely should not miss out on. AEW would be insane if Chad Gable were released and they didn't pick him up, for example. But there is absolutely a point in guys like Cardona coming in. And Chip's list is correct. He didn't say that these people are primarily associated with the WWE or anything like that -- he just said that they have all be signed. And that matters for that perception, and because if you've been watching WWF/E (as most people still around have), then you'll be familiar with these people. It doesn't necessarily make them stale, and you can use the familiar in fresh ways, but it can make things very stale and uninspiring. 

It's the how not the what. And I don't think Chip would be upset if you disagree with him on the how. There are a bunch of people (not you, obviously) that are jumping on the what though.


----------



## Jman55 (Nov 21, 2016)

The Wood said:


> Haha, that doesn't surprise me. I honestly did need a break from this place (not you beautiful Cynical fuckers of course), but maybe I'll stick my head in a bit more just to catch some of the heat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No worries and yeah though I get where Chip is coming from I don't think AEW have reached "LolTNA" levels though definitely have made a few missteps (kinda upsets me to call them missteps though cause 2 of them are actually wrestlers I'm a pretty big fan of in Brodie Lee and Cardona but Cardona has the biggest possible "WWE jobber" stink any signing could have unless they got Slater...undeserved imo and on a personal level I'm very glad he signed but he def has it and Brodie has just not worked out in AEW like I really hoped he would hence why I counted them).

Perception though is very important that I very much agree with so I get why it's a concern for some. However it's this style of perception that I'm personally disagreeing that they are going to have as long as they avoid making more signings like Cardona and Spears. If they do make more of those signings that's definitely a different issue (though I fully admit if I like the ones involved like Cardona I'll complain less again everyone has biases) but I'm hoping especially as the roster is already very bloated on the men's side of things they wont be making that kind of mistake and I don't think they've made enough of them yet to consider it already an issue. Just my personal perception of the situation of course.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> Where are the lies? All those people did work in the WWE.


should we give shit to wwe for making Austin, Undertaker, HHH, Foley, Big Show, countless others big stars because they started in WCW first?


----------



## Ham and Egger (Dec 13, 2005)

alex0816 said:


> should we give shit to wwe for making Austin, Undertaker, HHH, Foley, Big Show, countless others big stars because they started in WCW first?


If this forum was around back then, no doubt people would’ve complained about that!


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

alex0816 said:


> should we give shit to wwe for making Austin, Undertaker, HHH, Foley, Big Show, countless others big stars because they started in WCW first?


Big Show was a star before he got to the WWF.

Not only was the WWF in a very different position to AEW, but those individual talents are all different stories. You'd be a fool not to take Austin, for example. By the time you get to The Giant's deal coming up in 1999, things are entirely different.

Why the FUCK would you sign Zack Ryder? That's more akin to WCW signing Nailz. You're taking someone that has very little talent and spending money on bringing them over in a major role which makes your product look shitty. 

This is more Shawn Stasiak debuting with the immortal line: "That was MEAT in the WWF!" 

I've personally been on record saying that AEW should definitely sign talent from the WWE for their star power. So has Chip, actually. But you're missing the point. Give us more Steve Austin, The Undertaker and Mick Foley. Give us less "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan and Honky Tony Man.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Ham and Egger said:


> If this forum was around back then, no doubt people would’ve complained about that!


lmao then they're stupid for that.

none of those guys were anywhere near the same as they were in WWE excpet for Show(he's a Giants dude, didn't need a new gimmick, it was fine)

just like Archer isn't anywhere being who he was in wwe for like 6 months or however long he was there
Cage isn't anywhere near the same dude he was in develpmental. Lucha and Impact made him more known
Omega became a star in Japan after leaving wwe developmental, no thanks to wwe 
Trent is signed because of what he did outside of wwe not what he did in wwe
Ivellise made a name in Lucha and indys
Colt is spuper popular and known because of his indy run, not cause he was Scotty Goldman for a few months
even Cody reinvented himself after leaving wwe

are they bringing in too many former wwe guys who are known for working there? even if Erik Rowan is actually coming it's still no. Rowan, Brodie, Ryder are the only ones that i'll agree are a waste of time and have no value.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> Big Show was a star before he got to the WWF.
> 
> Not only was the WWF in a very different position to AEW, but those individual talents are all different stories. You'd be a fool not to take Austin, for example. By the time you get to The Giant's deal coming up in 1999, things are entirely different.
> 
> ...


and you'd be foolish not to take FTR, Archer, and Cage who can be similar to the Takers and Austins. became top guys in AEW, ring popularity there

im with you on Ryder and Brodie and Rowan(if thats true still dont know wtf is going on). waste of time


----------



## Ham and Egger (Dec 13, 2005)

The Wood said:


> I've personally been on record saying that AEW should definitely sign talent from the WWE for their star power. So has Chip, actually. But you're missing the point. Give us more Steve Austin, The Undertaker and Mick Foley. Give us less "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan and Honky Tony Man.


There is no one that has been released in the last 5 years that’s on the level of Taker, Austin, Foley. Other than Moxley and Jericho there isn’t any big WWE names to sign. The best this company can do is try to elevate these former mid carders.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Brodie is a good upercard heel hand. His story is far from written in AEW. Spears is coming around a bit even - not a top guy, but a solid undercard "good hand". If Spears ends up in the 4H inspired faction he could even reach a higher level and cemented as much better off in AEW than WWE. 

Guys jumping from WWE need time to get their footing. Being part of the WWE machine for decade in some cases to a whole new company with a whole different way of doing creative, playing new characters largely of their own ideas. 

Hardy said he came in with a million ideas for his broken characters, but needed to ditch it all because it wasn't working without fans. Fans are instant feedback to what is working and what isn't. Guys trying out new characters don't get that now.


----------



## JeSeGaN (Jun 5, 2018)

AFW+former WWE trash...

What a combination!


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

alex0816 said:


> should we give shit to wwe for making Austin, Undertaker, HHH, Foley, Big Show, countless others big stars because they started in WCW first?


This point is good, but won't hold until they actually turn one of these WWE guys into a bigger star, which takes time of course.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

I don't care where wrestlers come from but AEW EVP's sign their mates and that's a bigger problem. It's causing them to not actually sign the best or most elite wrestlers.


----------



## SPCDRI (Mar 15, 2010)

What's bad about a show having Erik Rowan and doing something with Thunder Rosa? AEW just cut some wrestlers it wasn't using and needed some bodies, what's the big deal?

Mike Chioda is actually a really good get for a company with young refs that have made mistakes and could really learn from somebody of his caliber and experience. How could anybody bitch about a wrestling company hiring Mike Chioda? What wrestling company in the entire world is worse off if it hires Mike Chioda? Come on.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

alex0816 said:


> and you'd be foolish not to take FTR, Archer, and Cage who can be similar to the Takers and Austins. became top guys in AEW, ring popularity there
> 
> im with you on Ryder and Brodie and Rowan(if thats true still dont know wtf is going on). waste of time


I agree on FTR. Undecided on Archer and Cage. Archer looks the business, but I didn't care about him the moment he sold for Marko Stunt. He's done. Cage? I haven't paid attention to him, because AEW has not held my attention. I've heard the Taz promos are good.

Brodie would have potentially been a good get, but he's been exposed. That's partly his fault and partly AEW's booking. 

The foolish guys not to get where CM Punk, Randy Orton, Brock Lesnar, Daniel Bryan, Jeff Hardy, Miro Barnyashev, Scarlett Bordeaux, AJ Styles, Shinsuke Nakamura, Edge, Rey Mysterio and The Fatus. They weren't likely to get all of them, but not going after them hard was a mistake. And apparently they did some and just fell short. But those are names that would have expanded your audience and gotten you some industry cred. The issue is that they get the guys that WWE looked at, decided not to push (often for very valid reasons), and now have a chip and a taint. 



Ham and Egger said:


> There is no one that has been released in the last 5 years that’s on the level of Taker, Austin, Foley. Other than Moxley and Jericho there isn’t any big WWE names to sign. The best this company can do is try to elevate these former mid carders.


There were plenty of big names to sign. AEW just missed out. You are not going to be able to elevate Brodie Lee or Matt Cardona. If there's no one comparable to Taker, Austin or Foley, then maybe the talent being brought over shouldn't be compared to Taker, Austin or Foley as justification for signing them?


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> I agree on FTR. Undecided on Archer and Cage. Archer looks the business, but I didn't care about him the moment he sold for Marko Stunt. He's done. Cage? I haven't paid attention to him, because AEW has not held my attention. I've heard the Taz promos are good.
> 
> Brodie would have potentially been a good get, but he's been exposed. That's partly his fault and partly AEW's booking.
> 
> ...


Archer squashed Marko, he never left his feet, like really? his problem is he isn;t being used
Cage is gonna be a main eventer most likely, super talneted dude with a good look

most of those guys were never gonna be an option for AEW. no way Orton, Lesnar, Bryan, Edge leave for AEW. i remember reading about interest in AJ and Nakamura, wwe offered them huge deals when AEW didn't even have a tv deal yet, it was near impossible. Scarlett was a miss yes cause Kross most likely comes with her. Rey they tried but im glad they didn't, not really interested and people like you and chip would complain about it cause he's an old wwe name.

who would have thought Stunning Steve and Mean Mark would be 2 of the greatest and most popular wrestlers ever? maybe Cage does become a huge and popular talent for AEW. maybe when they finally use Archer he becomes a big star.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

just want to point out that on smackdonwn there was a segment with Jeff Hardy, Aj styles, and the former Abyss. talk about 2010 tna. wwe has a problem, they are relying on TNA stars of old


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

alex0816 said:


> just want to point out that on smackdonwn there was a segment with Jeff Hardy, Aj styles, and the former Abyss. talk about 2010 tna. wwe has a problem, they are relying on TNA stars of old


The obvious difference is when WWE signs TNA wrestlers they're signing the best of the crop. When AEW signs WWE wrestlers they're signing Zack Ryder and Tye Dillinger.


----------



## ABH-22 (Apr 9, 2018)

Cult03 said:


> The obvious difference is when WWE signs TNA wrestlers they're signing the best of the crop. When AEW signs WWE wrestlers they're signing Zack Ryder and Tye Dillinger.


Are we just gonna forget about Robbie E, Zema Ion, Trevor Lee and to an extent Sam Shaw? None of them were "Stars" every company needs solid filler talent and neither Ryder or Dillinger have exactly threatened for a title yet.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Oh god THIS bullshit again.

Look I don't care where they come from. If they can go in the ring and entertain me then that's all that matter to me.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

ABH-22 said:


> Are we just gonna forget about Robbie E, Zema Ion, Trevor Lee and to an extent Sam Shaw? None of them were "Stars" every company needs solid filler talent and neither Ryder or Dillinger have exactly threatened for a title yet.


That's true. But WWE were filling their cruiserweight division and have the pick of the bunch. AEW has a far smaller roster and they call themselves All Elite, so they need to fill those spots with better wrestlers. Signing WWE's castoffs isn't a good look. Now if they sign wrestlers WWE actually want this would be very different.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Cult03 said:


> That's true. But WWE were filling their cruiserweight division and have the pick of the bunch. AEW has a far smaller roster and they call themselves All Elite, so they need to fill those spots with better wrestlers. Signing WWE's castoffs isn't a good look. Now if they sign wrestlers WWE actually want this would be very different.


I mean WWE did want Matt, Moxley, FTR, The Elite, and Brodie. They actually picked AEW over WWE.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

RapShepard said:


> I mean WWE did want Matt, Moxley, FTR, The Elite, and Brodie. They actually picked AEW over WWE.


They want everyone. Who they sign doesn't justify who AEW signs because WWE fucking sucks. AEW have made good signings but they've also made absolutely terrible signings. They need to do better. They're aspiring to be better than WWE, or different to them. Signing their unwanted talent makes them similar or less than. And like you said they're yet to make any of those characters any better than they were in WWE. That's the challenge of this "Ellis Island". They need to be better


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

WWE would not want them, they aren’t from TNA.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Cult03 said:


> They want everyone. Who they sign doesn't justify who AEW signs because WWE fucking sucks. AEW have made good signings but they've also made absolutely terrible signings. They need to do better. They're aspiring to be better than WWE, or different to them. Signing their unwanted talent makes them similar or less than. And like you said they're yet to make any of those characters any better than they were in WWE. That's the challenge of this "Ellis Island". They need to be better


You're right but wrong. Signing talent WWE don't want doesn't make them less than. The earnest is on them to maximize what WWE missed out on.

Since its easier for my brain. WWE is like your ex. You don't stay the same after you break up. You improve yourself and get happy or do whatever you need to do to move on. Here's who I think has successfully moved on and proved WWE wrong. Cardona and Cameron will be omissions because Cameron was a one off. And Cardona hasn't done jack. Rowan as well cause its unconfirmed and chioda cause his a ref.

Moxley. Has proven he can get over without comedy and mustard and Vince was entirely wrong in his characterization of him

Cody the results speak for themselves 

Archer. Results speak for themselves his a far better big man now than what he was in WWE 

Omega was never given a chance in dsw and now when his on his the best in the world

Trent was just a skinny geek who flips but now his a far better worker in a popular team

Ftr are presented far better now than they were in WWE 

Dustin. Well his not having seizures and is playing the veteran role nicely 

Who has stayed the same 

Jericho. The only difference is his got a more vicious y2j character and a spinning elbow 
Hardy- his always been a solid hand something every company has recognized 

Who has proven WWE right

Spears. A good hand but ultimately a geek outshined by an old man

Lee. A admittedly good big man when he wrestles but completely useless as anything more than a follower


----------



## Ham and Egger (Dec 13, 2005)

The Wood said:


> There were plenty of big names to sign. AEW just missed out. You are not going to be able to elevate Brodie Lee or Matt Cardona. If there's no one comparable to Taker, Austin or Foley, then maybe the talent being brought over shouldn't be compared to Taker, Austin or Foley as justification for signing them?


Name them. Other than Mox and Jericho there is no one in the WWE that has big name value. The only way to make another Austin or Foley is for one of these mid vard guys to become them and i highly doubtful Matt Cardona or Brodie Lee will fit that bill.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

alex0816 said:


> should we give shit to wwe for making Austin, Undertaker, HHH, Foley, Big Show, countless others big stars because they started in WCW first?


They started in WCW but they all became massive stars in the WWE (Except Big Show) as opposed to AEW who hires existing big stars without producing any themselves. AEW is kind of like those big name independent promotions who bring in wrestlers or "sign" them and change nothing expecting them to draw on their prior history in the WWE.



Cult03 said:


> The obvious difference is when WWE signs TNA wrestlers they're signing the best of the crop. When AEW signs WWE wrestlers they're signing Zack Ryder and Tye Dillinger.


This. Also, Jeff Hardy was definitely a WWE guy before going to TNA and made his name there. AJ is the epitome of TNA though so I'll agree he's a TNA guy but he was a must sign. It's not like WWE signed Chris Sabin and immediately started pushing him in their World Title picture because he was in TNA and has a name from there.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Firefromthegods said:


> You're right but wrong. Signing talent WWE don't want doesn't make them less than. The earnest is on them to maximize what WWE missed out on.
> 
> Since its easier for my brain. WWE is like your ex. You don't stay the same after you break up. You improve yourself and get happy or do whatever you need to do to move on. Here's who I think has successfully moved on and proved WWE wrong. Cardona and Cameron will be omissions because Cameron was a one off. And Cardona hasn't done jack. Rowan as well cause its unconfirmed and chioda cause his a ref.
> 
> ...


Moxley is exactly the same character but has been a bit more serious. Still a massive dork
Cody is still the same character he was in ROH and Impact
Archer is the same character he was in NJPW plus Roberts
Omega has gone downhill from his NJPW days
Trent's character sucks so badly compared to his NJPW character
FTR is exactly the same. Exactly the same
Dustin was made huge because of the WWE. His character now is just a guy
Jericho is very different in AEW. He's still funny sometimes but in WWE he had someone telling him that what he was going to say isn't actually funny
Hardy is his TNA character
Spears was supposed to be treated better. He got pantsed on PPV with his managers face on his dick. 
Lee meh, he's just a wannabe Vince McMahon

Fair enough some have gotten better since leaving WWE but that had almost nothing to do with AEW


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> Moxley is exactly the same character but has been a bit more serious. Still a massive dork
> Cody is still the same character he was in ROH and Impact
> Archer is the same character he was in NJPW plus Roberts
> Omega has gone downhill from his NJPW days
> ...


Just one minor correction (You must've given up on watching every week also). Hardy went from his TNA character back to his WWE character and is now a mixture of the two. He was original Matt Hardy this week until he got angry and became broken Matt.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Cult03 said:


> Moxley is exactly the same character but has been a bit more serious. Still a massive dork
> Cody is still the same character he was in ROH and Impact
> Archer is the same character he was in NJPW plus Roberts
> Omega has gone downhill from his NJPW days
> ...


Missed my point entirely. My point is some got better outside of the WWE handcuffs. It seems like you and chip just want to harp on the former WWE guy means bad thing.

If they earn their keep what's the big deal? Tna just automatically forced WWE guys on their audience robbing people of aj styles or Christopher Daniels or Samoa Joe world title runs. 

Is that what you two are afraid of? Zack Ryder being world champion before mjf or page?


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

I remember Cody said at the beginning that they were only looking at 4 - 5 names from WWE and didn't want to be known as WWE-Lite. How times change. 

People said WCW taking on a lot of guys from WWF was the death of them. People said TNA taking a lot of guys from WWE was the death of them....


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

No. The reason why tna died is they gave Jeff Jarrett, Kurt angle and Christian constant runs at the top. Over the younger guys.

Aew hasn't done that yet


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Firefromthegods said:


> Missed my point entirely. My point is some got better outside of the WWE handcuffs. It seems like you and chip just want to harp on the former WWE guy means bad thing.
> 
> If they earn their keep what's the big deal? Tna just automatically forced WWE guys on their audience robbing people of aj styles or Christopher Daniels or Samoa Joe world title runs.
> 
> Is that what you two are afraid of? Zack Ryder being world champion before mjf or page?


Seemed like you were talking about AEW though, but if you're saying they improved elsewhere then we absolutely agree. But I also said I don't care if they sign WWE stars, as long as they aren't unwanted. FTR was an absolute must, Ryder was not.

Not only am I afraid of that occurring, I'm afraid that those friends of the Elite will be given precious time on the 2 hour show over those characters and then be fed to Orange Cassidy or worse, Marko Stunt. Just like Jericho has been.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Just one minor correction (You must've given up on watching every week also). Hardy went from his TNA character back to his WWE character and is now a mixture of the two. He was original Matt Hardy this week until he got angry and became broken Matt.


I bet they definitely explained why that was happening too, right?


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Cult03 said:


> Seemed like you were talking about AEW though, but if you're saying they improved elsewhere then we absolutely agree. But I also said I don't care if they sign WWE stars, as long as they aren't unwanted. FTR was an absolute must, Ryder was not.
> 
> Not only am I afraid of that occurring, I'm afraid that those friends of the Elite will be given precious time on the 2 hour show over those characters and then be fed to Orange Cassidy or worse, Marko Stunt. Just like Jericho has been.


Yeah Matt explained like 2 weeks. Jericho wasn't so much fed as he gave himself willingly. I'm confused. Do you mean your afraid page and omega will be fed to WWE guys or your afraid page will be feuding with Cassidy while lee is world champion? 

Cause the elite guys don't count as WWE guys so it's not a TNA situation. 

Or your afraid mjf and cage and starks will be jobbing in feuds to former world champion orange Cassidy and former world champion marko?

Cause tna were never that stupid


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Firefromthegods said:


> Yeah Matt explained like 2 weeks. Jericho wasn't so much fed as he gave himself willingly. I'm confused. Do you mean your afraid page and omega will be fed to WWE guys or your afraid page will be feuding with Cassidy while lee is world champion?
> 
> Cause the elite guys don't count as WWE guys so it's not a TNA situation.
> 
> ...


What was his explanation?

Jericho needs an adult to say no to him. AEW doesn't have one of them around. I blame Jericho for this entire feud, but AEW are to blame as well. 

I'm not afraid they'll be fed to WWE guys. I'm afraid they'll be fed to guys that are shit. Like OC, Ryder, even selling for Stunt as Lee and Archer did. MJF as a chicken shit heel has already shown fear when Stunt was in front of him. But I don't really care anymore. I'm not that invested in AEW or WWE anymore. I'll watch sometimes and continue to call out their bullshit sometimes, but I'd prefer talented wrestlers go elsewhere. AEW can have WWE's castoffs and continue to have 800k fans maximum.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Cult03 said:


> What was his explanation?
> 
> Jericho needs an adult to say no to him. AEW doesn't have one of them around. I blame Jericho for this entire feud, but AEW are to blame as well.
> 
> I'm not afraid they'll be fed to WWE guys. I'm afraid they'll be fed to guys that are shit. Like OC, Ryder, even selling for Stunt as Lee and Archer did. MJF as a chicken shit heel has already shown fear when Stunt was in front of him. But I don't really care anymore. I'm not that invested in AEW or WWE anymore. I'll watch sometimes and continue to call out their bullshit sometimes, but I'd prefer talented wrestlers go elsewhere. AEW can have WWE's castoffs and continue to have 800k fans maximum.


Said something along the lines of when he first came he wanted to be an attraction. But he listened to the fans and now his Matthew hardy. He does the mannerisms but as chip said its more when his angry. But it's more vocal like catchphrases instead of transformations.

Aew is all I got. Besides nxt. Mlw is still on hiatus and I despise wrestle house and Eddie Edwards as champion. Wrestle house reminds me of big brother and I hate that show.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> FTR deserve shine, the point is that JE was seen as one of their sure fire tag hits and they've mostly just been there, while FTR walked into importance. Nobody would've predicted they'd be irrelevant in the tag title scene.
> 
> Are you really acting like DoN is a B PPV? DoN is their first official PPV ever, if it's not their Mania, it would be their SummerSlam.
> 
> ...


Sure they deserve shine, they got it early on between Jungle Boy/Y2J, and then Wardlow/MJF. If they had JE in DO or BE position, others would be complaining the others weren't getting any shine. They can't push everyone at once.

I guess I forgot because I remember NOTHING he did after Rhodes/Shield feud in 2013. Bringing me back to my point, how many are still watching? You just listed a bunch of his accomplishments but they were all mid-card stuff in declining era (and if anyone remembers the Amell stuff, they'll remember him appearing on Arrow as villain). No one was talking about Cody as a star until he left and made a name for himself outside, for his work outside, and now he's EVP for the 2nd biggest promotion. He won't be known as a "WWE" for long, he's a 1-Rhode, 2- EVP, 3- Reached higher success outside.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Cult03 said:


> The obvious difference is when WWE signs TNA wrestlers they're signing the best of the crop. When AEW signs WWE wrestlers they're signing Zack Ryder and Tye Dillinger.


gonna ignore that they signed Robbie E, Gunner, couple others who weren't anything special in TNA. ok cool


Cult03 said:


> That's true. But WWE were filling their cruiserweight division and have the pick of the bunch. AEW has a far smaller roster and they call themselves All Elite, so they need to fill those spots with better wrestlers. Signing WWE's castoffs isn't a good look. Now if they sign wrestlers WWE actually want this would be very different.





Cult03 said:


> They want everyone. Who they sign doesn't justify who AEW signs because WWE fucking sucks. AEW have made good signings but they've also made absolutely terrible signings. They need to do better. They're aspiring to be better than WWE, or different to them. Signing their unwanted talent makes them similar or less than. And like you said they're yet to make any of those characters any better than they were in WWE. That's the challenge of this "Ellis Island". They need to be better


way to contradict yourself. "sign guys wwe wants"(Omega, FTR, Brodie, Matt Hardy all turned down wwe for AEW) "if they sign wwe guys they're wwe lite" 

so sign guys wwe wants, some of them the did, yet if they sign wwe stars they come off as less then. got it.


Chip Chipperson said:


> They started in WCW but they all became massive stars in the WWE (Except Big Show) as opposed to AEW who hires existing big stars without producing any themselves. AEW is kind of like those big name independent promotions who bring in wrestlers or "sign" them and change nothing expecting them to draw on their prior history in the WWE.
> 
> 
> 
> This. Also, Jeff Hardy was definitely a WWE guy before going to TNA and made his name there. AJ is the epitome of TNA though so I'll agree he's a TNA guy but he was a must sign. It's not like WWE signed Chris Sabin and immediately started pushing him in their World Title picture because he was in TNA and has a name from there.


right, so why can't the same be said about 'wwe cast off' Brian Cage? 'wwe cast off' Lance Archer?

are AEW hiring big stars from wwe or the castoffs? cause people seem to be going back and forth and looking foolish

Jeff Hardy was in tna multiple times. 04-06 and 2010-2016. why can't he be labeled a TNA guy? smackdown had a segment with 3 guys who were popular in tna in 2010, why is that ok?


Firefromthegods said:


> Missed my point entirely. My point is some got better outside of the WWE handcuffs. It seems like you and chip just want to harp on the former WWE guy means bad thing.
> 
> If they earn their keep what's the big deal? Tna just automatically forced WWE guys on their audience robbing people of aj styles or Christopher Daniels or Samoa Joe world title runs.
> 
> Is that what you two are afraid of? Zack Ryder being world champion before mjf or page?


bro these guys clearly just want to hate on AEW for dumbass reasons smh


the_flock said:


> I remember Cody said at the beginning that they were only looking at 4 - 5 names from WWE and didn't want to be known as WWE-Lite. How times change.
> 
> People said WCW taking on a lot of guys from WWF was the death of them. People said TNA taking a lot of guys from WWE was the death of them....


except WCW taking guys like Hogan, Hall, Nash, Savage, Piper helped them be the number 1 company in the world for a while. death of them is that Russo booked horrible shit when he was there and didn't feature newer better talent.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

alex0816 said:


> except WCW taking guys like Hogan, Hall, Nash, Savage, Piper helped them be the number 1 company in the world for a while. death of them is that Russo booked horrible shit when he was there and didn't feature newer better talent.


They were number 1 in ratings only, nothing else. WWE were still smashing them in everything else. 

The NWO storyline was the reason they got to where they did and even then I don't think it would have mattered who was in that group, its the storyline people were engaged in. 

Sure bringing in Hogan, Savage etc brought them more attention, but WCW also increased their promoting 10 fold. The cost of bringing these guys in didn't see a dramatic increase in revenue. 

You could say that the good business WCW did was when people thought the WCW guys were going to beat the WWE associated guys. Flair/Hogan, Vader/Hogan, Sting/Hogan, DDP/Savage, Luger/Hogan, Goldberg/Hogan. People wanted WCW to triumph and for their own stars to return to the top. 

Russo isn't the reason WCW failed, neither is not pushing newer talent.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

alex0816 said:


> bro these guys clearly just want to hate on AEW for dumbass reasons smh


It's more pathetic when they still claim otherwise and believe anyone buys their crap.


----------



## CtrlAltDel (Aug 9, 2016)

Carter84 said:


> lance was in wwe , when?


He was Vance Archer wwecw. 2008-2010 period


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Cheers @CtrlAltDel , nice one dude.


----------



## CtrlAltDel (Aug 9, 2016)

Carter84 said:


> Cheers @CtrlAltDel , nice one dude.


Im like the 15th person who answered lol.

....

I do not see any problems with companies using talents from other companies. Everyone had to start somewhere. If it didn’t work out in one company, you never know if it will work out elsewhere.

Take Stone Cold Steve Austin. He got started with WCW. Had a Tag run with Brian Pillman. TV title reigns. He got fired so he went into ECW doing a Hulk Hogan parody. Then he went to WWF and became a star. No one at the time said anything about the WWF looking like WCWWF. You had guys like Mankind, Goldust, Marc Mero, HHH, Farooq, LOD, etc. WCW big period had former WWE stars but no one complained when it was hot.

Look at WWE now and you’ll see former TNA / Impact or RoH stars. This is a part of wrestling. A lot of the ex WWE guys on AEW roster weren’t main eventing their shows. Y2J Mox had their runs. Cody maybe was featured there with Legacy and the time he had a feud with HHh


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

CtrlAltDel said:


> Im like the 15th person who answered lol.
> 
> ....
> 
> ...


Manners cost nothing, I was being polite, you were the second lol


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

funny how not one person in here even considered my perspective in this thread. you guys are way to hot and not looking past your own ego. remember theres probably not even one person from wwe that i even enjoy but i can see what they are doing


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Wasn’t the Erick Rowan rumour confirmed as false?


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

I actually don't mind the majority of guys with wwe history they've bought in at all. 

They need people with TV experience and everyone they've bought in has the potential to add positively to the product. 

In today's market of wwe having a massively over inflated roster you're bound to pick people up when they make their cuts. 

Rowan has potential to be a solid big man addition. When dynamite started people were moaning they didn't have enough big men. They address it with Brodie/cage/rowan and people still moan. Almost as if people just want to moan 🤷‍♂️


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Firefromthegods said:


> Said something along the lines of when he first came he wanted to be an attraction. But he listened to the fans and now his Matthew hardy. He does the mannerisms but as chip said its more when his angry. But it's more vocal like catchphrases instead of transformations.
> 
> Aew is all I got. Besides nxt. Mlw is still on hiatus and I despise wrestle house and Eddie Edwards as champion. Wrestle house reminds me of big brother and I hate that show.


I tried watching Impact for a couple weeks once the Good Brothers signed. Wrestle House killed it for me too. I hate "reality" tv.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

This is a good article on the subject. This has to do with what i was talking about. I dont think almost anyone in wwe is actually over or exciting to most people in the business. They are also faulty because they was brought up in the crappy wwe system. Guys like Matt have burnt out his gimmicks though.

I think this will contiue to be the trend for wwe guys . This is why i pointed out that they are brought in now for shorter use and are not getting deeper long term story telling build ups or charcter development. The people getting long term booking and that are over in aew are self made break out young stars and this will contiue to be the case.


so i would not worry about it. tony follows everything very carefully and i think hes just heavily trying out many people right now. the more recent wwe guys are on short deals too. i mean i dont mind trying to see if poeple will work but its clear most of them just wont come across well in aew. i would rather they tried many people now to learn and be more selective later. plus remember again they are signing more guys that are not in wwe than wwe anyways. 









Former WWE Stars Struggling To Find Their Footing In AEW


WWE has lost a number of major stars to AEW, but many of them are struggling to find a consistent spot in their new home.




www.forbes.com


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

the_flock said:


> They were number 1 in ratings only, nothing else. WWE were still smashing them in everything else.
> 
> The NWO storyline was the reason they got to where they did and even then I don't think it would have mattered who was in that group, its the storyline people were engaged in.
> 
> ...


the nwo story was so popular because of who it involved. Hall and Nash showing up on Nitro was something so unexpected as was Hogan turning heel. how can you say it woudn't of mattered who was in the group?

they clearly brought eyes to the show, better ratings, more ppv buys, that equals more money.

Russo booked unwatchable shit. he's a big part of why they sank so fast


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Definition of Technician said:


> Sure they deserve shine, they got it early on between Jungle Boy/Y2J, and then Wardlow/MJF. If they had JE in DO or BE position, others would be complaining the others weren't getting any shine. They can't push everyone at once.
> 
> I guess I forgot because I remember NOTHING he did after Rhodes/Shield feud in 2013. Bringing me back to my point, how many are still watching? You just listed a bunch of his accomplishments but they were all mid-card stuff in declining era (and if anyone remembers the Amell stuff, they'll remember him appearing on Arrow as villain). No one was talking about Cody as a star until he left and made a name for himself outside, for his work outside, and now he's EVP for the 2nd biggest promotion. He won't be known as a "WWE" for long, he's a 1-Rhode, 2- EVP, 3- Reached higher success outside.


I mean Best Friends and DO aren't setting the world on fire. Outside of Marko, JE is over. 

He's reached more success by being viewed less? That's a weird measure of stardom. How can you on one hand talk about he was in a declining era in WWE so his time their doesn't mean much. Meanwhile on the other you big up midcard accomplishments in companies that get far less eyes than 2007-2016 WWE? It's nonsense.


----------



## CowboyKurtAngle (Jul 18, 2014)

I don't mind Rowan/Ruud. I actually liked his latter stuff in WWE with Bryan apart from that stupid spider shit. Decent worker and can do well in AEW if they use him right.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

CowboyKurtAngle said:


> I don't mind Rowan/Ruud. I actually liked his latter stuff in WWE with Bryan apart from that stupid spider shit. Decent worker and can do well in AEW if they use him right.


I wanted to believe that there was a plan for Rowan and that spider, where perhaps he could have placed it on a downed opponent after a match and controlled its movement from the corner of the ring via remote control.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

You don't need a consistant spot - folks here are crying for Archer to be used. It's better to leave folks wanting more than giving too much getting over-exposed. If AEW has nothing for you it's better to be off television than wrestling in nothing segments. Look at Nakamura - he's jobbing to Lucha House Party on Smackdown. That guy was so friggin special when he came Stateside and his NXT debut legit gave me goose bumps. Now he's just a guy jobbing in five minute television matches to Kalisto.

Brock is smart enough to leave for months/years, and even when active he controls his dates so that he's rarely in a throw away segement because his television appearances cost too much. It keeps him special.

Every former WWE wrestler is better off in AEW, outside their salary and that's really none of our business really as fans of the product.

Nobody is "over" in pro wrestling anymore. AEW gets 900K, Raw gets 2M. Both those shows get buried by My 600lb Life (or other such shitty shows).

Supposedly HHH told Ryback that Cena will be the last marquee name - The idea being WWE doesn't want wrestlers to be bigger than the company brand. If Rock or Cena jumped to a rival promotion it would have put that company on the map and Vince doesn't want to risk that by building up superstars anymore.

WWE signs the hot indie talent and grind them down with shitty creatively constricted 50-50 booking while paying them enough that they get used to the lifestyle so they choose to stay there safely for their careers.

AEW signed WWE wrestlers who quit wwe. Moxley left big money on the table, Jericho could have went back, Brodie, Hardy, FTR all left more money on the table to leave wwe and sign with AEW. Goldust and Spears requested their releases. Cardona was released but IIRC he hadn't re-signed yet and his contract was up at the end of the year and he was conflicted about it. PAC was so miserable he basically quit and went home until he could get out of his contract. These are not "cast-offs" who would have been happy jobbing away in WWE the rest of their careers (those guys signed in Impact for the most part).


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> I mean Best Friends and DO aren't setting the world on fire. Outside of Marko, JE is over.
> 
> He's reached more success by being viewed less? That's a weird measure of stardom. How can you on one hand talk about he was in a declining era in WWE so his time their doesn't mean much. Meanwhile on the other you big up midcard accomplishments in companies that get far less eyes than 2007-2016 WWE? It's nonsense.


Who cares if he was just viewed but not remembered?

If 3m people saw him as a mid-carder who would spend a lot of time doing nothing, how many care for him, buy his merch, get him over? like 20%? barely?
Different when 1m see him and 95% care because he's the fucking Man.

Your argument are based on whether this guy is seen as a WWE guy, I told you why he's not a WWE guy. The difference between Cody in WWE and then NJPW/ROH/AEW, being a Rhodes, and EVP of AEW, all highly overshadow his meaningless stint in WWE that he didn't accomplish much in. He wasn't a main eventer, and if 9 years he wasn't a main eventer, you can't tell me he wasn't a star there. It's like tuning in to TNA now and seeing EC3 as a WWE guy.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Definition of Technician said:


> Who cares if he was just viewed but not remembered?
> 
> If 3m people saw him as a mid-carder who would spend a lot of time doing nothing, how many care for him, buy his merch, get him over? like 20%? barely?
> Different when 1m see him and 95% care because he's the fucking Man.
> ...


Are you really making the ridiculous argument nobody would remember Cody Rhodes from WWE. Hell he can't or hasn't even used the Rhodes name outside of WWE one of your arguments already fails. 

He's definitely a WWE guy no matter how much you want to pretend he's not. Imagine trying to seriously argue that his ROH and NJPW runs overshadow his WWE run. It's going to be a while before he's looked at as an AEW guy. Because the reality is as salty as it makes you, he's more known for being in WWE than he is for being in ROH, Impact, NJPW, and AEW. Your feelings don't change the reality of the matter that more folk watched and remember him be undashing than they've watched him be TNT champion or be in ROH. 

EC3 is a terrible intentionally disingenuous comparison because he actually did nothing in WWE for 2 stints, that's not the case for Cody. Cody did shit it's just not the level you or him thought it should be. EC3 is a Impact guy because it's where he found his footing and made him relevant, meanwhile in WWE he did nothing and got fired twice. Cody did shit in WWE.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> Are you really making the ridiculous argument nobody would remember Cody Rhodes from WWE. Hell he can't or hasn't even used the Rhodes name outside of WWE one of your arguments already fails.
> 
> He's definitely a WWE guy no matter how much you want to pretend he's not. Imagine trying to seriously argue that his ROH and NJPW runs overshadow his WWE run. It's going to be a while before he's looked at as an AEW guy. Because the reality is as salty as it makes you, he's more known for being in WWE than he is for being in ROH, Impact, NJPW, and AEW. Your feelings don't change the reality of the matter that more folk watched and remember him be undashing than they've watched him be TNT champion or be in ROH.
> 
> EC3 is a terrible intentionally disingenuous comparison because he actually did nothing in WWE for 2 stints, that's not the case for Cody. Cody did shit it's just not the level you or him thought it should be. EC3 is a Impact guy because it's where he found his footing and made him relevant, meanwhile in WWE he did nothing and got fired twice. *Cody did shit in WWE.*


lol to you. Yes, no one really cares or remember Cody from WWE.
He was never a main eventer, and the Mid-card is not important in WWE. Nobody who is tuning in to AEW now would look at Cody as a former WWE guy for simple fact he's an EVP there, and also because his fanbase knows he had higher success elsewhere. You pretending he got his success thanks to WWE is disingenuous because so many others did shit on the indys after leaving, it was a very small part of it.

And It doesn't matter if he can't use his last name, you have Brandie and Dustin there and everyone knows his name is Rhodes.
If Cody would have stopped wrestling in 2016, nobody would give a fuck about him, just like Ted Dibiase Jr. That's how you see how irrelevant his WWE time was.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Definition of Technician said:


> lol to you. Yes, no one really cares or remember Cody from WWE.
> He was never a main eventer, and the Mid-card is not important in WWE. Nobody who is tuning in to AEW now would look at Cody as a former WWE guy for simple fact he's an EVP there, and also because his fanbase knows he had higher success elsewhere. You pretending he got his success thanks to WWE is disingenuous because so many others did shit on the indys after leaving, it was a very small part of it.
> 
> And It doesn't matter if he can't use his last name, you have Brandie and Dustin there and everyone knows his name is Rhodes.


They most certainly would look at him as a WWE guy. You think folk see him and go "hey that's that 14 year veteran I've never seen" get real. This fantasy world you want to pretend we're in where folk saw Cody in Impact, ROH, NJPW, and AEW but not WWE doesn't actually exist. Saying no one remembers his run in WWE is also hilarious. Especially when folk constantly talk about his WWE highlights to illustrate why they dropped the ball on him. 

If we want to talk about his post WWE success, which isn't on par with his WWE success. Well he owes that success to The Elite. Just call a spade a spade until AEW is a long standing promotion or household name he's going to be considered a WWE guy. Being an EVP in what as of today is a much smaller that's being viewed by far less people promotion won't change that. Now if say 5 years for now they're AEW is on par with WWE in name value or big in it's own right, then yeah he'll be seen as an AEW guy.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

To be fair, I have done my best to delete large swaths of Cena-era WWE. I can remember a ton of specifics before that, but not a lot during it. So much that comes up about this period, my reaction ranges from "oh yeah, that did happen" to "oh wow, they really did that?" That describes most of Cody's run there, just like it describes most of everyone's run there for the past 15 years. I remember a lot more about classic Goldust than the stuff he did with Booker T and all the other stuff in that time period I currently do not remember.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> They most certainly would look at him as a WWE guy. You think folk see him and go "hey that's that 14 year veteran I've never seen" get real. This fantasy world you want to pretend we're in where folk saw Cody in Impact, ROH, NJPW, and AEW but not WWE doesn't actually exist. Saying no one remembers his run in WWE is also hilarious. Especially when folk constantly talk about his WWE highlights to illustrate why they dropped the ball on him.
> 
> If we want to talk about his post WWE success, which isn't on par with his WWE success. Well he owes that success to The Elite. Just call a spade a spade until AEW is a long standing promotion or household name he's going to be considered a WWE guy. Being an EVP in what as of today is a much smaller that's being viewed by far less people promotion won't change that. Now if say 5 years for now they're AEW is on par with WWE in name value or big in it's own right, then yeah he'll be seen as an AEW guy.





Lheurch said:


> To be fair, I have done my best to delete large swaths of Cena-era WWE. I can remember a ton of specifics before that, but not a lot during it. So much that comes up about this period, my reaction ranges from "oh yeah, that did happen" to "oh wow, they really did that?" That describes most of Cody's run there, just like it describes most of everyone's run there for the past 15 years. I remember a lot more about classic Goldust than the stuff he did with Booker T and all the other stuff in that time period I currently do not remember.


That's a bit my point because it's not just Cody, but most tag-teams or mid-card carders during this declining dead era. 

There's also a lot of time Cody spent on the sideline, and at many points of his career he wasn't just a mid-card, he was like a lower card jobber. 
Cody went from mid-card hell to one of the top 3 stars of the 2nd biggest company that is a top 10 cable show with competition where he's EVP.

If you weren't main eventing you weren't relevant. Cody certainly wasn't relevant and it's not hard to see him as a non-WWE guy. It doesn't matter if they saw him, if the stuff he did post WWE weren't more important than his WWE run, he'd be with the likes of Ryback, Sandow, Chris Masters, etc/ other mid-carders. Your logic says Cody's highest recognition is similar to those people.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Definition of Technician said:


> That's a bit my point because it's not just Cody, but most tag-teams or mid-card carders during this declining dead era.
> 
> There's also a lot of time Cody spent on the sideline, and at many points of his career he wasn't just a mid-card, he was like a lower card jobber.
> Cody went from mid-card hell to one of the top 3 stars of the 2nd biggest company that is a top 10 cable show with competition where he's EVP.
> ...


But your point still dies because not only did more people see him being with Randy Orton, putting bags on people or him and Goldust beating the Shield. It's things people remember him doing. Him not becoming mega big doesn't erase that as of now his biggest most recognizable moments happened in WWE. I would totally agree with you if we were talking about Trent who was in WWE, but truly did nothing. With Trent if you know him, you know him because of Best Friends. With Cody you know him because of his WWE run.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

alex0816 said:


> gonna ignore that they signed Robbie E, Gunner, couple others who weren't anything special in TNA. ok cool
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're just going to look over the fact I first said I don't care where anyone comes from, AEW should be signing the best available just so you can jump on this whataboutism for what WWE does? I don't like WWE. They're shit now. Are you denying that? Because otherwise we're arguing completely different things.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

alex0816 said:


> Archer squashed Marko, he never left his feet, like really? his problem is he isn;t being used
> Cage is gonna be a main eventer most likely, super talneted dude with a good look
> 
> most of those guys were never gonna be an option for AEW. no way Orton, Lesnar, Bryan, Edge leave for AEW. i remember reading about interest in AJ and Nakamura, wwe offered them huge deals when AEW didn't even have a tv deal yet, it was near impossible. Scarlett was a miss yes cause Kross most likely comes with her. Rey they tried but im glad they didn't, not really interested and people like you and chip would complain about it cause he's an old wwe name.
> ...


I said he sold for him, not that he bumped for him. And now I don’t care. Same with Brian Cage. Don’t care. It’s that simple.

Everyone with common sense could see Steve Austin was going to be _something_.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Cult03 said:


> You're just going to look over the fact I first said I don't care where anyone comes from, AEW should be signing the best available just so you can jump on this whataboutism for what WWE does? I don't like WWE. They're shit now. Are you denying that? Because otherwise we're arguing completely different things.


you said wwe only signs the best when it comes to bringing in former tna talent. you also said if aew keep signing cast offs they will come off as less then, yet they should be signing people wwe want to sign. all things said by you that make no sense. and yes wwe are shit, doesnt mean aew can't bring in guys they think have talent.


The Wood said:


> I said he sold for him, not that he bumped for him. And now I don’t care. Same with Brian Cage. Don’t care. It’s that simple.
> 
> Everyone with common sense could see Steve Austin was going to be _something_.


Archer moved back a few steps froma top rope drop kick and thats the worse thing ever? 

did you care about Cage after he got beat up by Tessa Blanchard?

and i highly doubt anyone looked at the Ringmaster and thought megastar. Stone Cold worked because wwe didn't keep their guys in a box then and let them create their own ideas. the dude playing Stone Cold believed he was Stone Cold so everyone bought in and rightfully so


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> But your point still dies because not only did more people see him being with Randy Orton, putting bags on people or him and Goldust beating the Shield. It's things people remember him doing. Him not becoming mega big doesn't erase that as of now his biggest most recognizable moments happened in WWE. I would totally agree with you if we were talking about Trent who was in WWE, but truly did nothing. With Trent if you know him, you know him because of Best Friends. With Cody you know him because of his WWE run.


I mean I'm not gona change your mind if you want to believe that. We're going in circles.
You think his WWE time with Dashing, Legacy and Rhodes/Shield >> Rhodes name, EVP of AEW, his success on the indys/NJPW. 

I think it's more even and if we have clearer picture for AEW's success it won't be hard for all the other stuff to overshadow his WWE run. The point to me is if you take away the latter, he's just like Ryback now, irrelevant.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

alex0816 said:


> you said wwe only signs the best when it comes to bringing in former tna talent. you also said if aew keep signing cast offs they will come off as less then, yet they should be signing people wwe want to sign. all things said by you that make no sense. and yes wwe are shit, doesnt mean aew can't bring in guys they think have talent.
> 
> 
> Archer moved back a few steps froma top rope drop kick and thats the worse thing ever?
> ...


Nah I didn't. I said they sign the best of the crop. They also sign some lower level talent. AEW signs whoever is available and wants to wrestle for a 2nd rate gymnastics company where nobody says no to them. Fuck off with your spin.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

It really only matters if you are the type to nitpick.

I couldn’t care less where they have been before.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

alex0816 said:


> you said wwe only signs the best when it comes to bringing in former tna talent. you also said if aew keep signing cast offs they will come off as less then, yet they should be signing people wwe want to sign. all things said by you that make no sense. and yes wwe are shit, doesnt mean aew can't bring in guys they think have talent.
> 
> 
> Archer moved back a few steps froma top rope drop kick and thats the worse thing ever?
> ...


No one says the things you attribute to them. I never said that it was the "worst thing ever." I said it was bad and now I don't give a fuck about Archer and never will. That's the way content works sometimes, pal. When it's bad, people don't give a fuck. And no, I don't give a fuck about Cage. I don't give a fuck about TNA and he got choked out like a bitch in AEW so I don't give a fuck about him there. 

Steve Austin was a star in WCW. US Champion, Hollywood Blonds, great matches. Your mentality that a nobody should be allowed to do whatever they want in some crapshoot that they could be a giant star is one of the worst things about AEW. You need to be able to give things structure and let stars work with autonomy within that paradigm. But when it becomes apparent a guy has no instincts (like, sincerely, most of the AEW roster), it's time to give them some goddamn guidance.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Austin was let go by wcw as they didn't see any star potential. Likewise wwe gave him a manager to talk for him & a gimmick of just a ring mechanic. He was not a main event player - stop rewriting history


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> No one says the things you attribute to them. I never said that it was the "worst thing ever." I said it was bad and now I don't give a fuck about Archer and never will. That's the way content works sometimes, pal. When it's bad, people don't give a fuck. And no, I don't give a fuck about Cage. I don't give a fuck about TNA and he got choked out like a bitch in AEW so I don't give a fuck about him there.
> 
> Steve Austin was a star in WCW. US Champion, Hollywood Blonds, great matches. Your mentality that a nobody should be allowed to do whatever they want in some crapshoot that they could be a giant star is one of the worst things about AEW. You need to be able to give things structure and let stars work with autonomy within that paradigm. But when it becomes apparent a guy has no instincts (like, sincerely, most of the AEW roster), it's time to give them some goddamn guidance.





Pippen94 said:


> Austin was let go by wcw as they didn't see any star potential. Likewise wwe gave him a manager to talk for him & a gimmick of just a ring mechanic. He was not a main event player - stop rewriting history


so just to add to Pippen and his point of Austin being seen as nothing more then average in wcw and when first arriving in wwf, it was Bret Hart that actually saw potential in Austin even before any higher ups in wwe. Cage was and is viewed as a bigger star then Austin was in wcw and when first arriving in wwf. Cage was viewed as a star in Lucha Underground and especially in impact where he was the world champion. just because you don't care and think he's a nobody doesn't mean the dude doesn't have potential because some of the more popular promotions he worked in think so and so does AEW.

also hasn't been "chocked out like a bitch" in AEW so idk wtf you on about there.

by your logic, no one should have ever care about anyone who's sold for Mysterio. who hasn't sold for a smaller wrestler, and even in some cases a woman, in their career?


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

alex0816 said:


> so just to add to Pippen and his point of Austin being seen as nothing more then average in wcw and when first arriving in wwf, it was Bret Hart that actually saw potential in Austin even before any higher ups in wwe. Cage was and is viewed as a bigger star then Austin was in wcw and when first arriving in wwf. Cage was viewed as a star in Lucha Underground and especially in impact where he was the world champion. just because you don't care and think he's a nobody doesn't mean the dude doesn't have potential because some of the more popular promotions he worked in think so and so does AEW.
> 
> also hasn't been "chocked out like a bitch" in AEW so idk wtf you on about there.
> 
> by your logic, no one should have ever care about anyone who's sold for Mysterio. who hasn't sold for a smaller wrestler, and even in some cases a woman, in their career?


You make good point; cage went straight to top of card vs Mox. Austin was curtain jerking against Vega.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Pippen94 said:


> You make good point; cage went straight to top of card vs Mox. Austin was curtain jerking against Vega.


Good thing they have used Cage so well so far. (Missing for three weeks and counting).


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Pippen94 said:


> You make good point; cage went straight to top of card vs Mox. Austin was curtain jerking against Vega.


for real lol

he was brought in as the Ringmaster, doing jobs to Savio Vega, and wasn't even supposed to have his iconic "Austin 3:16 says i just whipped your ass!!" moment at king of the ring, yet Austin was viewed as a star and no one should care about Cage? cause he was choked out like a bitch(except nothing like that happened ever)

lmao glad im not alone on the sane train


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Lheurch said:


> Good thing they have used Cage so well so far. (Missing for three weeks and counting).


last seen july 29th i believe

taz has been on commentary saying Cage is banned from the arena for at least 1 of the weeks

so 1 week, maybe where he isn't seenor mentioned. how horrible. the Ringmaster gimmick is obviously better then Brian Cage who's been booked very strongly since arriving


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

alex0816 said:


> last seen july 29th i believe
> 
> taz has been on commentary saying Cage is banned from the arena for at least 1 of the weeks
> 
> so 1 week, maybe where he isn't seenor mentioned. how horrible. the Ringmaster gimmick is obviously better then Brian Cage who's been booked very strongly since arriving


Good thing heels obey all rules and bans. Would have been crazy had he shown up when banned to beat up some security...


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Lheurch said:


> Good thing heels obey all rules and bans. Would have been crazy had he shown up when banned to beat up some security...


whether you agree with that reasoning/angle or not, he hasn't been missing or not mentioned for 3 weeks, soooooo know what you talkin about bro


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

alex0816 said:


> whether you agree with that reasoning/angle or not, he hasn't been missing or not mentioned for 3 weeks, soooooo know what you talkin about bro


He has been missing. He was "banned" for one week (so nice of him to obey the rules), and did not bother to show up for two. Apparently he showed up for Impact though...


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Remember when a ban on a monster would've resulted in that heel saying fuck the rules and just destroying security as Lheurch pointed out? The fact that Brian Cage this monster who is massive would even agree to stay away for the week is insanity let alone 3.

Of course Alex is trying to defend this though.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Lheurch said:


> He has been missing. He was "banned" for one week (so nice of him to obey the rules), and did not bother to show up for two. Apparently he showed up for Impact though...


hasn't been on the show for 2 weeks, at least one of the weeks there's an angle that explains why he isn't there. lets all complain like a bunch of girls though and act liked he's been smacked with a shovel and buried forever.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

alex0816 said:


> hasn't been on the show for 2 weeks, at least one of the weeks there's an angle that explains why he isn't there. lets all complain like a bunch of girls though and act liked he's been smacked with a shovel and buried forever.


What a weird extreme you go to. Do girls complain a lot? One might think someone who had been banned for a week might...I dunno...do something about it afterwards. I might be asking for too much though, like having a story line or doing something.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Remember when a ban on a monster would've resulted in that heel saying fuck the rules and just destroying security as Lheurch pointed out? The fact that Brian Cage this monster who is massive would even agree to stay away for the week is insanity let alone 3.
> 
> Of course Alex is trying to defend this though.


when someone says he's missing and not mentioned for 3 weeks(when it's only 2 with an explanation why isn't there) then you look dumb, sorry but not really.

i have criticims of AEW, but this is laughable. shouldn't you guys be not caring about him? he got choked out like a bitch according to your guys buddy wood


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Lheurch said:


> What a weird extreme you go to. Do girls complain a lot? One might think someone who had been banned for a week might...I dunno...do something about it afterwards. I might be asking for too much though, like having a story line or doing something.


like what? his fued for All Out is most likely Darby Allin who wasn't on tv last week, had his match with Mox the week before(the reason Cage was banned was because of this match to keep himfrom interfering)

like wtf is problem? taz has been talking about him on commentary over this time as well


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

alex0816 said:


> like what? his fued for All Out is most likely Darby Allin who wasn't on tv last week, had his match with Mox the week before(the reason Cage was banned was because of this match to keep himfrom interfering)
> 
> like wtf is problem? taz has been talking about him on commentary over this time as well


Because when you build to a pay per view especially once that at least seemed like it'd be pretty high up the card (With Cage coming out of a main event feud and Allin taking Moxley to his limits and earning his respect) you generally have guys on every week to build it up. 

Can you imagine if in the year 2000 they just had Kurt Angle not appear for almost a month in the lead up to a match with another main eventer such as Undertaker? It's ludicrous and bad booking.

AEW don't know what they're doing mate. I don't know how many times I can say it but they really do need someone who knows this basic shit such as building to a Pay Per View.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Because when you build to a pay per view especially once that at least seemed like it'd be pretty high up the card (With Cage coming out of a main event feud and Allin taking Moxley to his limits and earning his respect) you generally have guys on every week to build it up.
> 
> Can you imagine if in the year 2000 they just had Kurt Angle not appear for almost a month in the lead up to a match with another main eventer such as Undertaker? It's ludicrous and bad booking.
> 
> AEW don't know what they're doing mate. I don't know how many times I can say it but they really do need someone who knows this basic shit such as building to a Pay Per View.


would i have liked for their to be a segment between them last week? absolutely. but just because there wasn't doesn't mean it's a poor build or decision. the fued is set, the reaoning is there, there are 3 more episodes til All out. they have other matches to build up to as well and only have 2 hours a week.

if your're gonna have criticisms, please have valid criticisms


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

alex0816 said:


> so just to add to Pippen and his point of Austin being seen as nothing more then average in wcw and when first arriving in wwf, it was Bret Hart that actually saw potential in Austin even before any higher ups in wwe. Cage was and is viewed as a bigger star then Austin was in wcw and when first arriving in wwf. Cage was viewed as a star in Lucha Underground and especially in impact where he was the world champion. just because you don't care and think he's a nobody doesn't mean the dude doesn't have potential because some of the more popular promotions he worked in think so and so does AEW.
> 
> also hasn't been "chocked out like a bitch" in AEW so idk wtf you on about there.
> 
> by your logic, no one should have ever care about anyone who's sold for Mysterio. who hasn't sold for a smaller wrestler, and even in some cases a woman, in their career?


Lower card wrestlers in 90's WCW were bigger stars than AEW's main event talent apart from Mox and Jericho who got all of their fame elsewhere.


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

alex0816 said:


> for real lol
> 
> he was brought in as the Ringmaster, doing jobs to Savio Vega, and wasn't even supposed to have his iconic "Austin 3:16 says i just whipped your ass!!" moment at king of the ring, yet Austin was viewed as a star and no one should care about Cage? cause he was choked out like a bitch(except nothing like that happened ever)
> 
> lmao glad im not alone on the sane train


If it had of been a straight shoot fight the best big guy wrestler in any promotion would of picked mox up and well ill say no more as both bring a lot to the table in there respective areas, cage is the best wrestler along with Pentagon Jr in aew for me they have been my favourites since LU, they both are so good, cage moves like a cruiserweight for his size and can go,,Pentagon brings that lucha style and then some, to get over with just saying CERO MEIDO, says a hell of a lot .


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

alex0816 said:


> so just to add to Pippen and his point of Austin being seen as nothing more then average in wcw and when first arriving in wwf, it was Bret Hart that actually saw potential in Austin even before any higher ups in wwe. Cage was and is viewed as a bigger star then Austin was in wcw and when first arriving in wwf. Cage was viewed as a star in Lucha Underground and especially in impact where he was the world champion. just because you don't care and think he's a nobody doesn't mean the dude doesn't have potential because some of the more popular promotions he worked in think so and so does AEW.
> 
> also hasn't been "chocked out like a bitch" in AEW so idk wtf you on about there.
> 
> by your logic, no one should have ever care about anyone who's sold for Mysterio. who hasn't sold for a smaller wrestler, and even in some cases a woman, in their career?


Austin was well known when WWE signed him. Solid mid card run in WCW, legendary tag run with Pillman and his time in ECW. No way was Cage bigger star than Austin was in 95.

Nobody watched LU, it had like 80k hardcores watching. Nobody has had any interest in impact since broken Hardys stuff in 2016


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Pippen94 said:


> Austin was let go by wcw as they didn't see any star potential. Likewise wwe gave him a manager to talk for him & a gimmick of just a ring mechanic. He was not a main event player - stop rewriting history


Yeah, Eric Bischoff was an idiot. I wouldn’t argue against that. It doesn’t mean Austin wasn’t widely regarded as an insanely talented guy. I didn’t say “main event player.” Stop fucking lying.



alex0816 said:


> so just to add to Pippen and his point of Austin being seen as nothing more then average in wcw and when first arriving in wwf, it was Bret Hart that actually saw potential in Austin even before any higher ups in wwe. Cage was and is viewed as a bigger star then Austin was in wcw and when first arriving in wwf. Cage was viewed as a star in Lucha Underground and especially in impact where he was the world champion. just because you don't care and think he's a nobody doesn't mean the dude doesn't have potential because some of the more popular promotions he worked in think so and so does AEW.
> 
> also hasn't been "chocked out like a bitch" in AEW so idk wtf you on about there.
> 
> by your logic, no one should have ever care about anyone who's sold for Mysterio. who hasn't sold for a smaller wrestler, and even in some cases a woman, in their career?


Rey Mysterio and Marko Stunt are not comparable. There are some who don’t buy even Rey in main events though. There’s a difference between selling for a smaller guy and selling for Marko Stunt. Don’t try that smokescreen. 



Pippen94 said:


> You make good point; cage went straight to top of card vs Mox. Austin was curtain jerking against Vega.


It’s not a good point — it’s borderline unintelligible. I actually don’t even know what to say. Someone we jump from talking about Austin’s potential to his push (not the same thing), and that somehow relates to Brian Cage. I need Charlie Kelly’s board to follow all this.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

I just want to say cage is so roided up his got zero main event potential anymore. Every time he gets a push he gets a muscle tear.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

The Definition of Technician said:


> lol to you. Yes, no one really cares or remember Cody from WWE.
> He was never a main eventer, and the Mid-card is not important in WWE. Nobody who is tuning in to AEW now would look at Cody as a former WWE guy for simple fact he's an EVP there, and also because his fanbase knows he had higher success elsewhere. You pretending he got his success thanks to WWE is disingenuous because so many others did shit on the indys after leaving, it was a very small part of it.
> 
> And It doesn't matter if he can't use his last name, you have Brandie and Dustin there and everyone knows his name is Rhodes.
> If Cody would have stopped wrestling in 2016, nobody would give a fuck about him, just like Ted Dibiase Jr. That's how you see how irrelevant his WWE time was.


I'm an AEW fan but even I got to say I remember Cody for his WWE run, and not his AEW run. He might have been just a midcarder in WWE but he was seen by a ton more people then what he's doing now in AEW. As soon as Cody comes to my mind, I remember his gimmick with the facemask, his feud with Mysterio at wrestlemania 27, his feud with the Shield and his time in the stable with Orton. He honestly accomplished a lot even though he was never a main eventer.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Yeah, Eric Bischoff was an idiot. I wouldn’t argue against that. It doesn’t mean Austin wasn’t widely regarded as an insanely talented guy. I didn’t say “main event player.” Stop fucking lying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Deflecting as always. Perceived potential & push go hand in hand.
Vince didn't see Austin as top star to begin with either - two minds responsible for biggest wrestling boom both idiots


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Cult03 said:


> Lower card wrestlers in 90's WCW were bigger stars than AEW's main event talent apart from Mox and Jericho who got all of their fame elsewhere.


ok then Billy Gunn and Road Dogg(super popular in the 90s) are bigger stars then 95% of wrestling today. 

past guys will always be more popular then current. but the comparison is absolutely correct.

Austin from WCW/short ECW- mid card, average. scooped up by WWF-mid card, average for the first year til his Bret fued.

Cage was a main eventer and world champ in Impact and a hot commodity when his Impact contract ran out.

Austinwas and was brought in to wwf as nothing more then a mid carder, Cage was a main eventer and brought in as a main eventer. popularity from 25 years ago has nothing to do with that argument


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

alex0816 said:


> ok then Billy Gunn and Road Dogg(super popular in the 90s) are bigger stars then 95% of wrestling today.
> 
> past guys will always be more popular then current. but the comparison is absolutely correct.
> 
> ...



Which is why everyone is responsible for getting thenselves over with a compelling character. So far we have seen that the younger guys get the business and are bringing chracter and are way more over than wwe guys clearly dont understand the business because they got forced through the flawed system


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

validreasoning said:


> Austin was well known when WWE signed him. Solid mid card run in WCW, legendary tag run with Pillman and his time in ECW. No way was Cage bigger star than Austin was in 95.
> 
> Nobody watched LU, it had like 80k hardcores watching. Nobody has had any interest in impact since broken Hardys stuff in 2016


jesus christ. Austin was a mid carder in wcw and brought in as a mid carder(at best) in WWF. Cage was a main eventer and world champion in a promotion with a tv deal and when signed was instantly put into a main event fued. who watches then vs who watches now is a shit argument


The Wood said:


> Yeah, Eric Bischoff was an idiot. I wouldn’t argue against that. It doesn’t mean Austin wasn’t widely regarded as an insanely talented guy. I didn’t say “main event player.” Stop fucking lying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


who exactly has sold for Marko? Archer didn't(moving back a few steps after a missle dropkick isn't much of a sell. Kenny did a few weeks ago but it was made out to that Kenny underestimated him, still not a good excuse granted, but the very limited times someone has taken a hit from him, it hasn't buried anyone. it's been from behind or he got a lucky shot. that's it


the point is extremely valid if you understand what people are saying rather then ignoring the points brought up and making the argument about something completely different. you know what's unintelligible? making a thread about past wwe guys coming to AEW and having the list filled with a ref, a ring announcer, an agent, commentators, multiple people who never even got out of developmental, and a few who spent less then a year with the company in like 2008. but here we are.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

alex0816 said:


> ok then Billy Gunn and Road Dogg(super popular in the 90s) are bigger stars then 95% of wrestling today.
> 
> past guys will always be more popular then current. but the comparison is absolutely correct.
> 
> ...


They absolutely are. Despite not being relevant for 20 years, Road Dogg has 517k Twitter followers and Omega has 450k. Cage has 81k so he's not even close. They performed in front of millions of viewers and were far more well known. Mid card/average Austin was more popular than any AEW wrestler that didn't build their name in WWE already.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

alex0816 said:


> jesus christ. Austin was a mid carder in wcw and brought in as a mid carder(at best) in WWF. Cage was a main eventer and world champion in a promotion with a tv deal and when signed was instantly put into a main event fued. who watches then vs who watches now is a shit argument
> 
> 
> who exactly has sold for Marko? Archer didn't(moving back a few steps after a missle dropkick isn't much of a sell. Kenny did a few weeks ago but it was made out to that Kenny underestimated him, still not a good excuse granted, but the very limited times someone has taken a hit from him, it hasn't buried anyone. it's been from behind or he got a lucky shot. that's it
> ...


MJF cowered in fear when Stunt stood in front of him. Stunt literally got numerous two counts on roll ups on Jericho. This is selling for someone. Kenny underestimating him should still lead to Stunt barely affecting him. That's three of AEW's biggest stars


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

alex0816 said:


> who exactly has sold for Marko?


Archer (A stumble is a sell, Marko hit him with an enziguri as well which Archer sold, a few kicks to the face as well. Marko had the better of Archer for about 10-15 seconds)

Archer kicking Marko's ass didn't deter Marko who then picked a fight with Brodie Lee.

Brodie Lee (Also sold for Marko, Marko hit him with a double boot to the face which Brodie sold. Not as bad as Archer but still sold for him)

Chris Jericho (Can't find footage of this one but it was on the Jericho cruise. Marko got the better of Jericho and got a near fall on him. Marko was like half a second away from a victory over the World Champion)

Kenny Omega (As you pointed out Omega also sold for Marko)

MJF (Marko was actually pretty competitive with MJF)

There are a fair few others that I recall also and Marko has had a fair few competitive matches as well.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Watch the first 60 seconds of this.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Watch the first 60 seconds of this.


Why did I click on that? I already knew what it was going to be since I saw it the first time. I hate you. I did not make it through 60 seconds at least.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> Why did I click on that? I already knew what it was going to be since I saw it the first time. I hate you. I did not make it through 60 seconds at least.


To be honest if Marko can get the better of MJF like that Moxley should absolutely tear through him.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> To be honest if Marko can get the better of MJF like that Moxley should absolutely tear through him.


In kayfabe, it should be a 30 second squash after that.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Archer (A stumble is a sell, Marko hit him with an enziguri as well which Archer sold, a few kicks to the face as well. Marko had the better of Archer for about 10-15 seconds)
> 
> Archer kicking Marko's ass didn't deter Marko who then picked a fight with Brodie Lee.
> 
> ...


alright fair enough, that isn't good.

Archer, Brodie he barely got shots in
Jericho is bad granted
Kenny in a sense underestimated him, i can live with it seeing how that match ended
MJF that was bad 

doesn't make any of these dudes any less credible to me. it's wrestling. Rey, Daniel Bryan, and a female have all been world champions i big promotions.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Cult03 said:


> They absolutely are. Despite not being relevant for 20 years, Road Dogg has 517k Twitter followers and Omega has 450k. Cage has 81k so he's not even close. They performed in front of millions of viewers and were far more well known. Mid card/average Austin was more popular than any AEW wrestler that didn't build their name in WWE already.


 comparing popularity of wrestlers now and then is rediculous.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

alex0816 said:


> alright fair enough, that isn't good.
> 
> Archer, Brodie he barely got shots in
> Jericho is bad granted
> ...


More credit to you if you can overlook it but personally I struggle to and I'm sure the general fan base does as well.

Say what you want about Daniel Bryan and Rey Mysterio but even they have a significant height and weight advantage on Marko. Here's a photo of Rey around the time he won the WWE World Heavyweight Title from Kurt Angle:










Compare it to a photo of Marko Stunt from this year:










Even Tessa Blanchard who was the worst World Champion ever and turned a heap of people away from Impact has 5-6 inches on Marko and a size advantage.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Chip Chipperson said:


> More credit to you if you can overlook it but personally I struggle to and I'm sure the general fan base does as well.
> 
> Say what you want about Daniel Bryan and Rey Mysterio but even they have a significant height and weight advantage on Marko. Here's a photo of Rey around the time he won the WWE World Heavyweight Title from Kurt Angle:
> 
> ...


 Rey beat the likes of Batista, Eddie, and gave Undertaker a run for his money
Daniel beat Batista, gave Brock a run for his money i believe
Tessa beat Cage

i enjoy AEW and wrestling in general enough to overlook that stuff since i enjoy most of the show. Marko is also never going to be a world champion.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

alex0816 said:


> Rey beat the likes of Batista, Eddie, and gave Undertaker a run for his money
> Daniel beat Batista, gave Brock a run for his money i believe
> Tessa beat Cage
> 
> i enjoy AEW and wrestling in general enough to overlook that stuff since i enjoy most of the show. Marko is also never going to be a world champion.


But again, all of those people are in completely separate categories in every skill set than Marko. There just is no comparison. Daniel Bryan is smaller than most heavyweight champs, but he probably has 100 pounds on Marko. Mysterio has probably 60. Both were also once in a generation stars which is why they succeeded in the ways they have. Marko is not a shorter than average wrestler, he is the height and weight of a middle school child.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

alex0816 said:


> Rey beat the likes of Batista, Eddie, and gave Undertaker a run for his money
> Daniel beat Batista, gave Brock a run for his money i believe
> *Tessa beat Cage*
> 
> i enjoy AEW and wrestling in general enough to overlook that stuff since i enjoy most of the show. Marko is also never going to be a world champion.


I had to look that up I thought you were bullshitting. It really happened clean, holy shit who booked that? I'm happy for Tessa's success but damn that's bad. No way Cage is complaining about not getting TV time for 2 weeks if this is what he came from.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Lheurch said:


> But again, all of those people are in completely separate categories in every skill set than Marko. There just is no comparison. Daniel Bryan is smaller than most heavyweight champs, but he probably has 100 pounds on Marko. Mysterio has probably 60. Both were also once in a generation stars which is why they succeeded in the ways they have. Marko is not a shorter than average wrestler, he is the height and weight of a middle school child.


and unlike Rey and Bryan, Marko is never going to be a main star, the only matches he will win will be in tag matches with JB and Luchasaurus who will be the main reason they win.

he's in semi squash matches. do his opponents seel too much? sometimes yea. but it's not making me say, fuck these guys, never caring about them again.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

alex0816 said:


> comparing popularity of wrestlers now and then is rediculous.


Only because it doesn't suit your agenda. I was merely responding to you saying Cage is a bigger star than Austin was in WCW. You started the ridiculous comparisons


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

alex0816 said:


> and unlike Rey and Bryan, Marko is never going to be a main star, the only matches he will win will be in tag matches with JB and Luchasaurus who will be the main reason they win.
> 
> he's in semi squash matches. do his opponents seel too much? sometimes yea. but it's not making me say, fuck these guys, never caring about them again.


Well, it is not making me say that either. I just hate to keep hearing "Uh, everything is under control. Situation normal." I think too many people are afraid to criticize one thing for some reason. Too much black and white thinking. It must be all good or all bad. I do not get this line of thinking at all. I can easily say Marko is by far the most offensive thing on the show and in all of wrestling, but still say AEW is overall better than WWE right now by a lot. It should be that easy. Marko needs to stop being in matches immediately. Too many excuses are made for the dumb.

Notice the slippery slope:

Day 1: At least Marko was only in that battle royal. It is not like he is in normal matches.
Day 30: At least Marko is only in tag matches. It is not like he is getting in moves on people on his own or adults are selling for him!
Day 120: At least Marko is not actually WINNING matches against adults. Sure they sold a move or two for him, but come on you idiots, he is not winning!
Day 366: At least Marko only beat the guy covering himself with oil. You guys are acting like he beat someone important. It is not like he is getting a two count on the champion or anything...
And it keeps going.

You can do the same thing with OC with so many posts on this board. Incrementalism at its finest.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Cult03 said:


> Only because it doesn't suit your agenda. I was merely responding to you saying Cage is a bigger star than Austin was in WCW. You started the ridiculous comparisons


my comparison was to guys coming from different companies.

Austin from wcw to wwf
Cage from Impact to AEW

may argument was Cage was and is treated like a bigger deal coming into AEW then Austin was when he first went to WWF. you can't aruge that

then you wanna spin it with twitter followers. that has absolutely nothing to do with anything

Val Venis and Al Snow are bigger stars then Seth Rollins or the Fiend since more people watched them on tv back then


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

alex0816 said:


> my comparison was to guys coming from different companies.
> 
> Austin from wcw to wwf
> Cage from Impact to AEW
> ...


Weird but ok. Shawn Spears moved from WWE to AEW and was treated a bit more seriously for a few weeks, what does that even mean? Just because he was treated like a bigger deal in a small company doesn't mean he is a big deal. I can argue that by the way. You're just not taking into account my reasoning. Being a lower card wrestler on a show with millions of viewers is a bigger deal than being a main eventer for a few weeks on a show that has 800k. Being a mid carder in 90's WCW was also better.

And wait a second, didn't Austin debut by being handed the Million Dollar Championship and then being involved in a storyline with Ted Dibiase having to leave the company if Austin won? I'm confused about how winning a Ladder match involving Colt Cabana, Darby Allin, Joey Janela, Frankie Kazarian, Kip Sabian, Orange Cassidy, Luchasaurus and Scorpio Sky is considered better than that?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> Well, it is not making me say that either. I just hate to keep hearing "Uh, everything is under control. Situation normal." I think too many people are afraid to criticize one thing for some reason. Too much black and white thinking. It must be all good or all bad. I do not get this line of thinking at all. I can easily say Marko is by far the most offensive thing on the show and in all of wrestling, but still say AEW is overall better than WWE right now by a lot. It should be that easy. Marko needs to stop being in matches immediately. Too many excuses are made for the dumb.
> 
> Notice the slippery slope:
> 
> ...


That was my thought reading his posts also. Orange was the same.

- Orange is only a mascot for the Best Friends it's not like he's taking up valuable TV time from real wrestlers.

- Orange only wrestles when they absolutely need him to or as a special attraction

- Okay so Orange is wrestling now but it's only in the midcard it's not like he'll ever work a main event.

- Okay Orange worked a main event but it's not like he'll ever WIN a main event

- Orange beats Jericho and it's now "Orange will never be a champion in AEW"...until he does


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

I mean the tnt championship is reasonable. Tag champ. Anything more is abhorrent


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Firefromthegods said:


> I mean the tnt championship is reasonable. Tag champ. Anything more is abhorrent


No it's not


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Cult03 said:


> No it's not


It's going to drop in importance just like the us and intercontinental and now the x division title once Cody drops it. Midcard acts get Midcard titles


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Cult03 said:


> Weird but ok. Shawn Spears moved from WWE to AEW and was treated a bit more seriously for a few weeks, what does that even mean? Just because he was treated like a bigger deal in a small company doesn't mean he is a big deal. I can argue that by the way. You're just not taking into account my reasoning. Being a lower card wrestler on a show with millions of viewers is a bigger deal than being a main eventer for a few weeks on a show that has 800k. Being a mid carder in 90's WCW was also better.
> 
> And wait a second, didn't Austin debut by being handed the Million Dollar Championship and then being involved in a storyline with Ted Dibiase having to leave the company if Austin won? I'm confused about how winning a Ladder match involving Colt Cabana, Darby Allin, Joey Janela, Frankie Kazarian, Kip Sabian, Orange Cassidy, Luchasaurus and Scorpio Sky is considered better than that?


a majority of the people watching and AEW in 2020 found Cage coming in to be a pretty big deal

a majority of people watching WWF in 1995 thought of the Hollywood Blondes guy when Austin came in.

that's the point im making. but the amount of viewers and twitter followers got brought up in an argument where bringing stuff like that up makes no sense. yea no shit more people were watching in the 90s. wrestling has like a quarter of the fan base, maybe less, that they had in 96-99. even the early 90s when wrestling didn't become really popular, more people were watching then they they are now.

and being given the million dollar championship, what did that mean? he didn't beat anybody for itand he didn't defend it. it was a prop. and Ted Dibiase left wwf cause Austin lost his match, multiple matches actually, to Savio Vega. Dibiase wasn't forced to leave cause Austin won, that wouldn't even make sense. and Austin's push after that happened by acident cause HHH was being punished.

Cage won a ladder match that gave him a world title match in less then 2 months in the company and he has one loss, in controversial fashion, in AEW so far.

so yea Cage has been booked stronger then Austin upon each of their arrivals to new companies. 

but if you wanna go by viewers from completely different time periods and twitter followers to say who's a bigger deal, you do do fam


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Pippen94 said:


> Deflecting as always. Perceived potential & push go hand in hand.
> Vince didn't see Austin as top star to begin with either - two minds responsible for biggest wrestling boom both idiots


No one is deflecting. Perceived potential and push don't always go hand-in-hand. That's ridiculous. No one said "top star." We're talking about potential. Austin very clearly had potential, hence the roles he had already been in prior to 1996. This conversation is actually insane.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

alex0816 said:


> a majority of the people watching and AEW in 2020 found Cage coming in to be a pretty big deal
> 
> a majority of people watching WWF in 1995 thought of the Hollywood Blondes guy when Austin came in.
> 
> ...


Your point isn't very good, that's all. You're the one who started the comparison and you're moving the goal posts so the rules only suit your chosen agenda. It's bullshit. The FTW title is also a prop that nobody actually won and Taz wasn't as big as Ted Dibiase. Who has Cage wrestled so far? Brian Pillman Jr. Moxley. Robert Anthony. Darby Allin? A bunch of people that don't matter and Moxley, a subpar champion. Your comparison sucks

Using your logic, how fucking good was the Great Khali?!


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

To be fair Khali wasn't absolutely useless for a while. Cage has already been overshadowed by Ricky starks.

It took a lot longer for the novelty to wear off with Khali. Though to be fair to cage. His the second best hoss in the company. With Lee and biff tannen fighting it out for 3rd and last respectively. Though since I didn't give Lee a cute nickname I may already know who the worst hoss is


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Cult03 said:


> Your point isn't very good, that's all. You're the one who started the comparison and you're moving the goal posts so the rules only suit your chosen agenda. It's bullshit. The FTW title is also a prop that nobody actually won and Taz wasn't as big as Ted Dibiase. Who has Cage wrestled so far? Brian Pillman Jr. Moxley. Robert Anthony. Darby Allin? A bunch of people that don't matter and Moxley, a subpar champion. Your comparison sucks
> 
> Using your logic, how fucking good was the Great Khali?!


i haven't moved the goal posts once.

a thread is made talking about how there are too many former wwe people in AEW, the list consists of a lot of former wwe guys who were either refs, barely in developmental, retired legends, and people who spent a few months there in like 2008-2009.

i responded saying Austin, along with Undertaker, Foley, and HHH were mid carders at best in wcw before coming to wwe. also wwe currently has a lot of guys who made their name in Japan and tna(AJ, Shinsuke, Joe, Kross). so some of these guys in AEW who were formerly in wwe(some of them barely in wwe) can have an impact for them at some point.

i was told they, by you i believe, AEW should bring in people wwe want. they have(Brodie Lee, Omega, Bucks, Matt Hardy, FTR) and that they should bring in more Austins and less Zack Ryders. 

i made a point saying Austin was seen as nothing more then a mid carder in wcw and when first arriving to wwf. while 'ex wwe guy' Brian Cage has been a world champion in other promotions and was put into a big spotlight when first arriving to AEW. there is nothing wrong or dumb about my comparisons because this is what happened for both men. 

i was then told that since more people watched wrestling in the 90s(wow what a revalation) and Brian Cage doesn't have a lot of twitter followers, that Austin in 95 automatically is a bigger deal then Brian Cage. that is a dumbass statement and finest example of moving goal posts. a majority of fans watching wrestling today saw Cage as a big deal signing. majority of wrestling fans in 1995 did not see Austin as a big deal signing. idk what you can't comprehend that.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

alex0816 said:


> i haven't moved the goal posts once.
> 
> a thread is made talking about how there are too many former wwe people in AEW, the list consists of a lot of former wwe guys who were either refs, barely in developmental, retired legends, and people who spent a few months there in like 2008-2009.
> 
> ...


Austin being a "mid-carder" in WCW > TNA World Champion. Why do people think that Austin was nobody before he went to the WWF? Is this Vince McMahon programming?


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> Austin being a "mid-carder" in WCW > TNA World Champion. Why do people think that Austin was nobody before he went to the WWF? Is this Vince McMahon programming?


why? Cage was the world champion in a promotion seen by a good amount of people

mid carder doesn't equal nobody, i never said that, but go ahead and spin words

Cage has still been given a bigger role in AEW while first coming then Austin did when first goin to WWF


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

alex0816 said:


> why? Cage was the world champion in a promotion seen by a good amount of people
> 
> mid carder doesn't equal nobody, i never said that, but go ahead and spin words
> 
> Cage has still been given a bigger role in AEW while first coming then Austin did when first goin to WWF


No one has given a shit about TNA in a good decade now. Even then its audience is much smaller than WCW’s was.

If you’re not arguing with mid-card not meaning “nobody,” then why are you and pippen arguing with me pointing out that Austin wasn’t nobody? Holy shit, that’s the entire argument, haha.

There is no role in AEW that has ever been bigger than a WWF role. It’s just mathematically impossible. Being the lead in a local theatre play is not comparable to having a small speaking role in a Scorsese film.

The point is: Just because Eric Bischoff fired Austin and just because Vince didn’t know what he had, it doesn’t mean that Austin didn’t have potential, wasn’t already good, and hadn’t already done anything. The WWE-propagated myth is that Austin was nothing before Austin 3:16. _This is a lie._ It should not be used to justify signing nobodies because “Austin was a mid-carder in WCW.”

You take Chad Gable because there’s something there. You don’t take Zack Ryder because there’s not.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

12 page thread on dorks buying a fake report. 

Wrestlingforum is a MEME


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> No one has given a shit about TNA in a good decade now. Even then its audience is much smaller than WCW’s was.
> 
> If you’re not arguing with mid-card not meaning “nobody,” then why are you and pippen arguing with me pointing out that Austin wasn’t nobody? Holy shit, that’s the entire argument, haha.
> 
> ...


wow going to audience numbers again. what a surprise.

the argument is how they were viewed before and as they joined each company. i bring up Cage because this thread started by mentioning him as a wwe cast off, which is rediculous to begin with. never said Austin was a no body. if you think mid card equals nobody, then thats your assumption

just because wwe didn't sign Cage doesn't mean he doesn't have potential and doesn't mean he's a nobody. Cage, like Austin prior to wwf, has accomplished many things, however, whether you want to admit it or not, Cage was treated like a bigger deal before and when first joining AEW then Austin was in wcw and first joining wwf. 

if you want to resort to the number of people watchign again, you do you, but you're gonna sound rediculous again. you guys are seriously missing the point by a mile and a half


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

RelivingTheShadow said:


> 12 page thread on dorks buying a fake report.
> 
> Wrestlingforum is a MEME


You’ve become progressively worse as a poster. I hope everything is okay. 



alex0816 said:


> wow going to audience numbers again. what a surprise.
> 
> the argument is how they were viewed before and as they joined each company. i bring up Cage because this thread started by mentioning him as a wwe cast off, which is rediculous to begin with. never said Austin was a no body. if you think mid card equals nobody, then thats your assumption
> 
> ...


Yeah, because the size of the audience is an important factor in determining how recognisable someone is, and the pressure and prestige that goes with certain spots. That’s not “rediculous.”

No, the point is that comparing Austin as a WCW castoff to the WWE castoffs AEW signs is FUCKING INSANE! It’s that simple. Just because Austin was in a certain position in WCW doesn’t mean you should take anybody from that relative position in WWE.

Cage is a WWE castoff. He was in developmental as Kris Logan and then got cut. That’s strictly true. It’s not “rediculous.”


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> You’ve become progressively worse as a poster. I hope everything is okay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so is Gangrel a more recognisable star then the Fiend? bigger auidience in 99 then 2020. what about Glacier? wcw had a bigger fan base then any wrestling promotion today.

Austin was a mid carder who became a star in wwf, no thanks to wwf btw. so why can't AEW sign a mid carder from wwe? they may have potential cause God knows wwe are shit at building their own stars for the better part of a decade now. are Zack Ryder or Brodie Lee guys who can be stars? probably not. is Brian Cage? you're damn right he is. Archer, since in your mind he got signed cause he was in wwecw in like 2008, can also be a big deal.

Cage made his name in wrestling outside of wwe. dude was in developmental like 12 years ago, you really think that's why he has a spot in AEW? you're a clown, bro.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

alex0816 said:


> so is Gangrel a more recognisable star then the Fiend? bigger auidience in 99 then 2020. what about Glacier? wcw had a bigger fan base then any wrestling promotion today.
> 
> Austin was a mid carder who became a star in wwf, no thanks to wwf btw. so why can't AEW sign a mid carder from wwe? they may have potential cause God knows wwe are shit at building their own stars for the better part of a decade now. are Zack Ryder or Brodie Lee guys who can be stars? probably not. is Brian Cage? you're damn right he is. Archer, since in your mind he got signed cause he was in wwecw in like 2008, can also be a big deal.
> 
> Cage made his name in wrestling outside of wwe. dude was in developmental like 12 years ago, you really think that's why he has a spot in AEW? you're a clown, bro.


Yeah, probably. I’m willing to bet there are a lot more people who recognise the vampire guy from the WWF with the cool fire entrance than know what the fuck a Bray Wyatt is. I’m sure a lot more people remember the Sub-Zero guy from WCW than know anyone from WWE today. Now, they may not think about them every day, or care about wrestling at all anymore, but as far as pure exposure goes. Yes, definitely.

Your Austin analogy is exactly the issue! Austin and the WWE mid-carders AEW have signed are not comparable, because none of them have the potential that Austin had. That is the whole discussion, and you ever admit that Zack Ryder and Luke Harper are bad signings yourself. Yes, thank you. Neither Brian Cage nor Lance Archer have Austin potential. Neither of them is a bad signing, but that’s not the point. If they were the only guys with a WWE history that were signed, then we wouldn’t be having this conversation though, would we?

I never said that about Cage either. You’re arguing against all this made up stuff. I’m just saying that he was in developmental. That is a fact. He’s got a job because he’s the only jacked guy in wrestling that is tight with the California guys. And he was willing to sign with them. But that doesn’t change the facts of his past.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Wood said:


> Yeah, probably. I’m willing to bet there are a lot more people who recognise the vampire guy from the WWF with the cool fire entrance than know what the fuck a Bray Wyatt is. I’m sure a lot more people remember the Sub-Zero guy from WCW than know anyone from WWE today. Now, they may not think about them every day, or care about wrestling at all anymore, but as far as pure exposure goes. Yes, definitely.
> 
> Your Austin analogy is exactly the issue! Austin and the WWE mid-carders AEW have signed are not comparable, because none of them have the potential that Austin had. That is the whole discussion, and you ever admit that Zack Ryder and Luke Harper are bad signings yourself. Yes, thank you. Neither Brian Cage nor Lance Archer have Austin potential. Neither of them is a bad signing, but that’s not the point. If they were the only guys with a WWE history that were signed, then we wouldn’t be having this conversation though, would we?
> 
> I never said that about Cage either. You’re arguing against all this made up stuff. I’m just saying that he was in developmental. That is a fact. He’s got a job because he’s the only jacked guy in wrestling that is tight with the California guys. And he was willing to sign with them. But that doesn’t change the facts of his past.


There is a reason why Glacier was appearing in the Casino Battle Royal last year for AEW. People actually knew who he was even 20+ years after he was a thing. Are we going to see Nakazawa covering himself in oil in 2042? Now, that does not make Glacier a huge success or good as a wrestler, but everyone knew who he was.

People forget Austin won PWI Rookie of the Year when he debuted. He was not exactly someone completely passing under everyone's radar until he cut that promo on Jake.

Now, I like Cage given that seeing an actual built guy in AEW is an amazing rarity. I know, a ripped guy in a wrestling company, who could ever have imagined? But what was he doing before he debuted? Was he in a hot tag team angle? Was he making classic segments ripping on his old boss in the "outlaw" fed? No, he was jobbing to a woman in a company that was basically begging people to stop watching.

Cage is the adult who somehow got hired at Willy Wonka's Oompa Loompa flip factory. So of course he stands out.

And yes I am being over the top in these comments on purpose because I find it ridiculous that we even have to say Steve Austin was a much bigger deal, even before the Bret Hart match than Brian Cage is today. And that is again, not a knock on Cage! I would think anyone would be happy to be included in the same sentence as Austin.

And yes, Gangrel had a badass entrance we all remember 20+ years later. He helped launch Edge and Christian, those guys some people have heard of. No one is going to watch the entrance of a guy with his hands in his pockets 20 years from now.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> Yeah, probably. I’m willing to bet there are a lot more people who recognise the vampire guy from the WWF with the cool fire entrance than know what the fuck a Bray Wyatt is. I’m sure a lot more people remember the Sub-Zero guy from WCW than know anyone from WWE today. Now, they may not think about them every day, or care about wrestling at all anymore, but as far as pure exposure goes. Yes, definitely.
> 
> Your Austin analogy is exactly the issue! Austin and the WWE mid-carders AEW have signed are not comparable, because none of them have the potential that Austin had. That is the whole discussion, and you ever admit that Zack Ryder and Luke Harper are bad signings yourself. Yes, thank you. Neither Brian Cage nor Lance Archer have Austin potential. Neither of them is a bad signing, but that’s not the point. If they were the only guys with a WWE history that were signed, then we wouldn’t be having this conversation though, would we?
> 
> I never said that about Cage either. You’re arguing against all this made up stuff. I’m just saying that he was in developmental. That is a fact. He’s got a job because he’s the only jacked guy in wrestling that is tight with the California guys. And he was willing to sign with them. But that doesn’t change the facts of his past.


i seriouly doubt either of those things but at least you're consistent.

are you saying Cage and Archer can't be top guys in AEW? cause they certainly can. if you talking star power then of course not. no one can and most likely never will reach that popularity.

FTR are great, Matt Hardy turned down wwe for AEW, been up and down and his fued with Sammy seems to be good, Brodie Lee is terrible though, are we counting Omega as a castoff? if so that's another guy with big potential and a big fan base in wrestling today. most of the other talnets aren't even wrestlers- Mike Chioda, Earl Hebner, Justin Roberts, Jake, Arn, Tully, Taz are managers which i don't see an issue with at all. people like Ivellise, Trent, made a bigger name outside of wwe for themselves. that was the huge problem with the op.

you said Cage was a wwe castoff, bringing it back to the op that bringing inwwe castoffs is a problem, it's not if you're bringing in the right people who have talent. Cage, despite who he's friends with, is a super talented dude and can be a big star for AEW(along with Archer, Conti, FTR, Pac,Ivellise, since they are considered wwe castoffs). him being in developmental 10 years ago does not make him a castoff of wwe either. that's a rediculous statement. it makes it sound as if wwe was too good for him, another dumb statement, meanwhile he made a big name for himself outside wwe


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I don't care about Cage or Archer anymore. They both have the look, but not only are the acts basically duplicating each other, they've both been beaten already. Booking matters. They've been booked shit. They can be pushed and have the top belt put on them at any time. That's whatever. That's WWE stuff. Jinder Mahal can be the top guy in WWE. Who cares? That's the question you need to ask yourself. Will I ever care about Brian Cage or Lance Archer? Considering they have both been booked terribly and one is mid-40's, I'm going to say "unlikely."

FTR is great. Their booking has also sucked. Don't care. They're in this awful program with The Young Bucks. Matt Hardy fucking sucks and has for many, many years. His only value is as Jeff's brother. Brodie Lee actually proved that Vince McMahon was right. Omega is definitely a WWE cast-off. He was in the WWE and he got cast-off. What is so hard to understand about that? If you are somewhere and you get cast off, then you are a cast-off. I can't make it any simpler. 

Does that mean they should or shouldn't be signed? That _does_ depend on talent and value. If you want to make an argument for signing them, go ahead. I'll hear that. The issue is when you take the wrong cast-offs or too many cast-offs. That damages your perception. Getting Zack Ryder and Matt Hardy instead of Miroslav Barnyashev and Jeff Hardy, for example. And no matter what peopel on the internet say, Trent is going to be more recognised as that guy who was in the WWE than that guy who is in AEW. Sorry to burst bubbles there.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Lheurch said:


> There is a reason why Glacier was appearing in the Casino Battle Royal last year for AEW. People actually knew who he was even 20+ years after he was a thing. Are we going to see Nakazawa covering himself in oil in 2042? Now, that does not make Glacier a huge success or good as a wrestler, but everyone knew who he was.
> 
> People forget Austin won PWI Rookie of the Year when he debuted. He was not exactly someone completely passing under everyone's radar until he cut that promo on Jake.
> 
> ...


would you consider Glacier more popular then any wrestler in the past 5-10 years? probably not

Austin always had potential, that isn't what the comparison or argument was at all. yea Austin was in a great tag team and had some U.S. title runs in wcw. is that not comparable to Cage being a standout star in LU and being a main eventer in Impact? now i don't agree with him losing to a female either, but he was considered a top guy in a national promotion nearly his entire time there.

my comparison is who was made to look like a bigger deal before each joined their new companies and who was made to be a bigger deal when arriving to their new company? im not talking about who was watching then/now or how many people follow somone on IG.

Austin, who was in a great team and had a good mid card run in wcw, then debuted as the ringmaster and lost fueds with Savio Vega?

or Cage who was popular in Lucha Underground and a top guy in Impact for about 2.5-3 years, then got a main event fued wiht the world champion upon arrival?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

alex0816 said:


> i seriouly doubt either of those things but at least you're consistent.
> 
> are you saying Cage and Archer can't be top guys in AEW? cause they certainly can. if you talking star power then of course not. no one can and most likely never will reach that popularity.
> 
> ...


Considering the guy who looks like a below average audience member pinned their only star, I think ANYONE could be a star in AEW. It is a REALLY low bar right now. I think the guy who used to dress as Scooby-Doo in the live crowd has a shot at this point.

Turning down WWE is not exactly rocket science right now. That is like me giving you an award for not sticking your tongue in an electrical outlet. Would you like a cookie?

I have said I have no problem at all with Cage. He is a welcome talent for me. No problems, except he disappeared for two weeks so far. Gotta have time for the skinny geek with his hands in his pockets to speak though right?

I do not care at all if he was in WWE at some point. Almost everyone has been.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

alex0816 said:


> would you consider Glacier more popular then any wrestler in the past 5-10 years? probably not
> 
> Austin always had potential, that isn't what the comparison or argument was at all. yea Austin was in a great tag team and had some U.S. title runs in wcw. is that not comparable to Cage being a standout star in LU and being a main eventer in Impact? now i don't agree with him losing to a female either, but he was considered a top guy in a national promotion nearly his entire time there.
> 
> ...


Austin. Easily. How is this even hard for you?


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> I don't care about Cage or Archer anymore. They both have the look, but not only are the acts basically duplicating each other, they've both been beaten already. Booking matters. They've been booked shit. They can be pushed and have the top belt put on them at any time. That's whatever. That's WWE stuff. Jinder Mahal can be the top guy in WWE. Who cares? That's the question you need to ask yourself. Will I ever care about Brian Cage or Lance Archer? Considering they have both been booked terribly and one is mid-40's, I'm going to say "unlikely."
> 
> FTR is great. Their booking has also sucked. Don't care. They're in this awful program with The Young Bucks. Matt Hardy fucking sucks and has for many, many years. His only value is as Jeff's brother. Brodie Lee actually proved that Vince McMahon was right. Omega is definitely a WWE cast-off. He was in the WWE and he got cast-off. What is so hard to understand about that? If you are somewhere and you get cast off, then you are a cast-off. I can't make it any simpler.
> 
> Does that mean they should or shouldn't be signed? That _does_ depend on talent and value. If you want to make an argument for signing them, go ahead. I'll hear that. The issue is when you take the wrong cast-offs or too many cast-offs. That damages your perception. Getting Zack Ryder and Matt Hardy instead of Miroslav Barnyashev and Jeff Hardy, for example. And no matter what peopel on the internet say, Trent is going to be more recognised as that guy who was in the WWE than that guy who is in AEW. Sorry to burst bubbles there.


ok that's how feel. idk why you even bother coming to an AEW thread an discussing, if i can even say, the product if you don't care about anyone, you think nearly the whole show sucks, but do whatever you want but when you complain about almost everything in a wrestling show every week rather then just not watch anymore, that's odd

thats also a close minded mindset. so anyone who stepped foot in wwe ever is a castoff? if you make a name for yourself outside of where you were a 'castoff', it's not really fair to label them a castoff anymore. Omega made a huge name for himself on the indys and Japan for a long time, calling him a wwe castoff cause he was in wwe developmental like 13 years is disrespectful.

AEW coud have signed Jeff Hardy and Rusev, people like you and Chip would still give them shit for bringing in former wwe talnet.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> Austin. Easily. How is this even hard for you?


a guy who was a midcarder for his entire career pre 96 over a guy who main evented in multiple promotions? whatever dude. the biased is real i guess


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

alex0816 said:


> so is Gangrel a more recognisable star then the Fiend? bigger auidience in 99 then 2020. what about Glacier? wcw had a bigger fan base then any wrestling promotion today.


To a lot of people Gangrel would probably be more recognisable than The Fiend. Obviously if you still follow wrestling today you know The Fiend and that he's a big deal but to the guy who stopped watching in 2004 he'd be like "Gangrel? Fuck yeah!" and not know anything about The Fiend.

I've mentioned here before that I've helped out on some shows featuring Orlando Jordan in the past and people get ridiculously excited to see him live despite being off WWE TV for like 15 years at this point. Big line at the merchandise table, always gets a warm reaction from the crowd, talent are keen to learn from him.

Another promotion had TJ Perkins here fresh off his run as WWE Cruiserweight Champion and he drew half the crowd of Orlando despite being a really good wrestler that is in his prime and at the tie was fresh off WWE TV. Says it all really...


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

alex0816 said:


> would you consider Glacier more popular then any wrestler in the past 5-10 years? probably not
> 
> Austin always had potential, that isn't what the comparison or argument was at all. yea Austin was in a great tag team and had some U.S. title runs in wcw. is that not comparable to Cage being a standout star in LU and being a main eventer in Impact? now i don't agree with him losing to a female either, but he was considered a top guy in a national promotion nearly his entire time there.
> 
> ...


Than ANY wrestler? No. But certainly more known than most in the past 5-10 years. By far better than average.

No one watched Lucha Underground. Sorry to burst your indie bubble. And...main event...on...Impact? Oh wow. Sorry I cannot take seriously. He jobbed to a woman there. This is the argument? Tell me more about this "national promotion." Seems to me I remember when TNA lost all that.

Cage, like Archer debuted, lost a match then disappeared. Where oh where is Cage? There is a reason why in the WCW/WWF days people were not debuting one week then challenging for the WORLD title a week later (other than Hogan in WCW obviously)! You had actual stars!

Do Glacier and Gangrel have Instagram followings I am unaware of? Or could they be known from that time we all watched them 20+ years ago?

And AGAIN, I like Cage! I actually do like him and want him to be one of the top guys in AEW!


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Lheurch said:


> Considering the guy who looks like a below average audience member pinned their only star, I think ANYONE could be a star in AEW. It is a REALLY low bar right now. I think the guy who used to dress as Scooby-Doo in the live crowd has a shot at this point.
> 
> Turning down WWE is not exactly rocket science right now. That is like me giving you an award for not sticking your tongue in an electrical outlet. Would you like a cookie?
> 
> ...


at least you don't care he was in wwe

he was written off for one week and wasn't needed the other. Taz is talking him up on commentary, 3 shows left til the ppv, he'll be there to build his match with Darby


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

alex0816 said:


> ok that's how feel. idk why you even bother coming to an AEW thread an discussing, if i can even say, the product if you don't care about anyone, you think nearly the whole show sucks, but do whatever you want but when you complain about almost everything in a wrestling show every week rather then just not watch anymore, that's odd
> 
> thats also a close minded mindset. so anyone who stepped foot in wwe ever is a castoff? if you make a name for yourself outside of where you were a 'castoff', it's not really fair to label them a castoff anymore. Omega made a huge name for himself on the indys and Japan for a long time, calling him a wwe castoff cause he was in wwe developmental like 13 years is disrespectful.
> 
> AEW coud have signed Jeff Hardy and Rusev, people like you and Chip would still give them shit for bringing in former wwe talnet.


If you were signed by the WWE and they cast you off, then you are a WWE cast-off. That's literally the reality of the situation. You can project disrespect all you want. I don't respect Omega, haha. That's got nothing to do with it though. It's fair enough to add the qualifier that they were cast off years ago and that the WWE would probably give them a menial job back and they likely wouldn't get fired (well, if they could pass the piss test), but they're still cast-offs, dude. It's just that simple. 

Don't project viewpoints onto people. I was pushing for them to sign both Jeff Hardy and Rusev. Don't just lie because you're losing an argument. I've never given AEW shit for signing FTR. It's the quality of the cast-off. Stop trying to distract from that. 



alex0816 said:


> a guy who was a midcarder for his entire career pre 96 over a guy who main evented in multiple promotions? whatever dude. the biased is real i guess


No one watched him in TNA or Lucha Underground, lol.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Lheurch said:


> No one watched Lucha Underground. Sorry to burst your indie bubble. And...main event...on...Impact? Oh wow. Sorry I cannot take seriously. He jobbed to a woman there. This is the argument? Tell me more about this "national promotion." Seems to me I remember when TNA lost all that.
> 
> Cage, like Archer debuted, lost a match then disappeared. Where oh where is Cage? There is a reason why in the WCW/WWF days people were not debuting one week then challenging for the WORLD title a week later (other than Hogan in WCW obviously)! You had actual stars!
> 
> ...


 LU and Impact had enough of a follwing that Cage was known and when people knew he signed with AEW, most people were excited for that


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

alex0816 said:


> at least you don't care he was in wwe
> 
> he was written off for one week and wasn't needed the other. Taz is talking him up on commentary, 3 shows left til the ppv, he'll be there to build his match with Darby


I have said many, many times on here I do not care at all if he was in WWE. Who would NOT at least try to be with the #1 company in your industry. It is weird for me when older people get hired by my company that were never an employee of a major competitor.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> If you were signed by the WWE and they cast you off, then you are a WWE cast-off. That's literally the reality of the situation. You can project disrespect all you want. I don't respect Omega, haha. That's got nothing to do with it though. It's fair enough to add the qualifier that they were cast off years ago and that the WWE would probably give them a menial job back and they likely wouldn't get fired (well, if they could pass the piss test), but they're still cast-offs, dude. It's just that simple.
> 
> Don't project viewpoints onto people. I was pushing for them to sign both Jeff Hardy and Rusev. Don't just lie because you're losing an argument. I've never given AEW shit for signing FTR. It's the quality of the cast-off. Stop trying to distract from that.
> 
> ...


then wreslting as a whole has been built off castoffs. complaining about AEW bringing castoffs is hypocritical

you would be complaining. you telling me if Rusev and Jeff were signed you would be perfectly ok with those castoff but not Cage and Omega? again hypocritical. you complain about everything. i seriously doubt Jeff Hardy would change that.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

alex0816 said:


> then wreslting as a whole has been built off castoffs. complaining about AEW bringing castoffs is hypocritical
> 
> you would be complaining. you telling me if Rusev and Jeff were signed you would be perfectly ok with those castoff but not Cage and Omega? again hypocritical. you complain about everything. i seriously doubt Jeff Hardy would change that.


I'm not complaining about AEW bringing in cast-offs. I'm complaining about which cast-offs they choose to bring in. There is a MASSIVE difference. You keep missing this. And this is why I constantly need to remind you that signing Austin was not insane, whereas signing Zack Ryder is. 

I didn't have a problem with them signing Cage or Omega either. I've just said they are WWE cast-offs. I'd have given Cage a look. Honestly, he's such a non-factor that I don't have a strong opinion either way. Omega is someone I don't personally like, but think there was a use for him at the start of the promotion, although the time for that has come and gone. Now he's "just a guy'd" himself. But whether or not you use them, it doesn't change their history one iota.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> I'm not complaining about AEW bringing in cast-offs. I'm complaining about which cast-offs they choose to bring in. There is a MASSIVE difference. You keep missing this. And this is why I constantly need to remind you that signing Austin was not insane, whereas signing Zack Ryder is.
> 
> I didn't have a problem with them signing Cage or Omega either. I've just said they are WWE cast-offs. I'd have given Cage a look. Honestly, he's such a non-factor that I don't have a strong opinion either way. Omega is someone I don't personally like, but think there was a use for him at the start of the promotion, although the time for that has come and gone. Now he's "just a guy'd" himself. But whether or not you use them, it doesn't change their history one iota.


and my comparison for the 100th time is between Austin and Cage, Ryder being brought up to make a point about bad castoff signings has nothing to do with who im comparing. not every ex wwe guy has superstar potential, not every ex wwe guy DOESN'T have potential either. just cause you don't like AEW doesn't mean Omega(who's been booked fine for the most part) and think Cage is a non factor doesn't mean they don't have an appeal to modern wrestling fans

Austin became a megastar after going to wwf, Cage can have similar effect by going to AEW. and no one thinks of Austin as this wcw castoff, just like no one, at least shouldn't, sees Omega and Cage as wwe castoffs.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Austin was in WCW when Flair, Luger, Sting, peak Vader, Hogan and Savage were there and worked Clash shows that drew over 3 million viewers.

Here are major differences between Austin and Cage


Cage is 6 years older than Austin was when he signed with WWF.
Cage has series of major injuries, Austin's injury problems really began at Summerslam 97.
Austin was a fantastic talker in WCW and ECW, Cage is not.
Austin played a more believable bad ass than any of the real life bad asses at the time ie Shamrock and Severn
WWE used every tool in their arsenal to get Austin over. AEW won't do that or book him stronger than the Elite guys, Jericho or Mox
Where is the McMahon character or Tyson character in AEW to give Cage the same rub
Where are the millions watching pro wrestling weekly today on next channel over ready to switch when something is considered "cool"

Just rewatch Austin's performance at 97 rumble and come back here and tell us Cage is next Austin. That's an Austin that was far far less over than the one two years later, playing a heel.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts (Feb 9, 2020)

It makes sense. They have value simply because people recognise them from WWE. If it wasn't for that, AEW wouldn't have much.

The main issue is that AEW are shit at building new stars. They'll focus on someone for a week or two and then move on to someone else. That doesn't build anyone into stars, that just makes everyone a midcarder.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

alex0816 said:


> a guy who was a midcarder for his entire career pre 96 over a guy who main evented in multiple promotions? whatever dude. the biased is real i guess


They're not being biased it's just the harsh truth of the matter. For Cage to have been bigger than Pre-KOTR Austin, Cage would've had to been in promotions of comparable size to WCW and unfortunately that's impossible right now given even the WWE isn't that popular anymore. Of course on a shallow level Main Eventer World Champion Cage coming straight to the main event sounds more important than Tag Champion and US Champion Austin goes straight to the midcard. But when you dig deeper it's obvious Austin was bigger and more important because WCW is much much larger than anywhere Cage has been. 

What you're doing is treating each level of the card, as if its value translates to the same level in all promotions and that's just not true. It would be like someone pretending that the ROH champion has more value than Cody, because Cody is a midcard champ and has never been a world champion.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Love this thread. Apparently unless you aren't destined to be the next Stone Cold Steve Austin then you aren't worth rostering if you were in WWE. But now I can make fun of WWE fans for signing AEW castoff Mercedes Martinez. Thats fun!


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

im talking about how each one of them were presented before and when first joining their new promotions. 

obviously more people were watching then as opposed to now, obviously there were bigger star then opposed to now. i never said Cage is the next Austin, opposite actually, i said no one in wrestling will ever reach Austin status. my comparison was how they each came from different companies and how Austin became a huge star desptie being a wcw castoff(something i'd never call him btw) and Cage can be a star for AEW despite being a wwe castoff(even though he made a big name for himself outside wwe for a decade some people wanna label him as that)

Austin signs with wwf, not many people are thinkig "wow, he's gonna be a huge star for them" no one really saw his potential as a mega star til King of the Ring. Cage signs with AEW and a good amount of people think he can be a star for them. that's the difference im talking about. im not talking about what Austin did later on and how popular he got, Cage will never reach that status and neither will anyone else.

impact isn't close to the popularity wcw was, idk why people keep bringing that up like everyone doesn't know that, but Impact is known well enough that Cage is a known name in the world of wrestling and was a top star there which is why AEW brought him in. Austin was not a top star in WCW while there.

Austin debuted in wwf with a strange gimmick and went on to lose a lower card fued to savio vega. Cage debuted by being put into a world title fued.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

With Cage my point is more that AEW are signing guys who were formerly under some kind of WWE contract and that the only guys that they haven't signed who were formerly of WWE are guys who were big names nationally from other companies (Daniels) or guys they were friendly with.

They haven't put any effort into really getting out there and signing the best 15-20 young guys on the indies that we've all never heard of. That's my only reasoning for listing the likes of Cage and Omega. Nobody genuinely thinks people are remembering them for their "WWE runs"


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> With Cage my point is more that AEW are signing guys who were formerly under some kind of WWE contract and that the only guys that they haven't signed who were formerly of WWE are guys who were big names nationally from other companies (Daniels) or guys they were friendly with.
> 
> They haven't put any effort into really getting out there and signing the best 15-20 young guys on the indies that we've all never heard of. That's my only reasoning for listing the likes of Cage and Omega. Nobody genuinely thinks people are remembering them for their "WWE runs"


Its a super stretch to call Brian Cage a WWE castoff. That means Edge is a WCW castoff. Ludicrous!


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Its a super stretch to call Brian Cage a WWE castoff. That means Edge is a WCW castoff. Ludicrous!


Again, you're not getting my point despite quoting me.

My point simply is that AEW doesn't seem interested in talent unless they're of a WWE background (No matter how minor) or they are a friend of The Elite. If I was given 100 million dollars, a 2 hour slot on the TNT network and a solid 6-9 months to find talent and put together a roster I would have done what they do in other sports, signed a couple of talent scouts and had them go around to every independent in the country trying to find the next big stars. I guarantee you there is a future PPV main event star currently running around at some local independent in front of 75 people waiting to get called up to the big leagues.

Instead AEW got lazy and will sign guys from the WWE's system or their friends which is why the AEW midcard is horrible.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Again, you're not getting my point despite quoting me.
> 
> My point simply is that AEW doesn't seem interested in talent unless they're of a WWE background (No matter how minor) or they are a friend of The Elite. If I was given 100 million dollars, a 2 hour slot on the TNT network and a solid 6-9 months to find talent and put together a roster I would have done what they do in other sports, signed a couple of talent scouts and had them go around to every independent in the country trying to find the next big stars. I guarantee you there is a future PPV main event star currently running around at some local independent in front of 75 people waiting to get called up to the big leagues.
> 
> Instead AEW got lazy and will sign guys from the WWE's system or their friends which is why the AEW midcard is horrible.


ok, but guys like Archer, Cage, Trent, Ivellise, they weren't brought in because of what they did in wwe.

guys like Mox and FTR are obviously guys you want to bring in. Pac as well had a good fan base on the indys before AEW

other names you mentioned are commentators, refs, ring announcers, and managers, which i don't see the problem with


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Again, you're not getting my point despite quoting me.
> 
> My point simply is that AEW doesn't seem interested in talent unless they're of a WWE background (No matter how minor) or they are a friend of The Elite. If I was given 100 million dollars, a 2 hour slot on the TNT network and a solid 6-9 months to find talent and put together a roster I would have done what they do in other sports, signed a couple of talent scouts and had them go around to every independent in the country trying to find the next big stars. I guarantee you there is a future PPV main event star currently running around at some local independent in front of 75 people waiting to get called up to the big leagues.
> 
> Instead AEW got lazy and will sign guys from the WWE's system or their friends which is why the AEW midcard is horrible.


62 male wrestlers on the roster and 14 are from WWE. If you have to ask "*__* was in WWE" then they don't count. Only the biggest AEW haters would dig up info from 15 years ago where a wrestler had a match or two in the WWE and count them as WWE guys. No one knows that, most hardcores don't even know Cage or Omega had a match or run in development.

So, basically 1 out of 5. That is hardly bad, AEW is allowed to sign guys from there, I have never once heard you make a rant over Mercedes Martinez being in WWE.

14: 

Billy Gunn (been on TV like twice)
Brodie Lee (pushed his way to AEW, not a castoff, WWE offered him a contract to stay)
FTR (turned down huge money to go to AEW)
Jericho (legelnd, you already agree AEW should sign these types)
Cody
Dustin (i can buy your narrative here if he wasnt Codys brother)
Hager (PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING)
Mox (every promotion on the planet wanted him, see Jericho)
Ryder (IM WITH YOU ON THIS ONE)
Hardy (SEE RYDER)
Pac (tough one, I think he was signed alot more for his work as Pac than because he was Neville, but ill give you this one)
Spears (FRIEND OF CODY, POINT TO YOU)
Trent (I never knew he was in WWE but I have read you guys say he was and he indeed was)


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Now go figure up how many guys went to WWE that were from TNA. 

AJ, Joe, Roode, Borash, Abyss, Eric Young, Sam Shaw, Killer Kross, Garza, Rockstar Spud, EC3, etc...that is 11 and I didn't even have to go look at the roster page like I did the AEW guys.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

TKO Wrestling said:


> 62 male wrestlers on the roster and 14 are from WWE. If you have to ask "*__* was in WWE" then they don't count. Only the biggest AEW haters would dig up info from 15 years ago where a wrestler had a match or two in the WWE and count them as WWE guys. No one knows that, most hardcores don't even know Cage or Omega had a match or run in development.
> 
> So, basically 1 out of 5. That is hardly bad, AEW is allowed to sign guys from there, I have never once heard you make a rant over Mercedes Martinez being in WWE.
> 
> ...


It's just an unfair thing they're going to have to deal with until they're on the same level as the main roster. Because WWE is bigger it's going to always appear like they're getting their scraps, even in cases were talent specifically chose AEW over WWE.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

RapShepard said:


> It's just an unfair thing they're going to have to deal with until they're on the same level as the main roster. Because WWE is bigger it's going to always appear like they're getting their scraps, even in cases were talent specifically chose AEW over WWE.


I guess this will occur until WWE either signs AEW guys or AEW guys sign 2nd contracts.

Makes sens.e


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

alex0816 said:


> ok, but guys like Archer, Cage, Trent, Ivellise, they weren't brought in because of what they did in wwe.
> 
> guys like Mox and FTR are obviously guys you want to bring in. Pac as well had a good fan base on the indys before AEW
> 
> other names you mentioned are commentators, refs, ring announcers, and managers, which i don't see the problem with


But they are guys with WWE backgrounds which has been my point all along. Recruit away from the WWE developmental system.



TKO Wrestling said:


> 62 male wrestlers on the roster and 14 are from WWE. If you have to ask "*__* was in WWE" then they don't count. Only the biggest AEW haters would dig up info from 15 years ago where a wrestler had a match or two in the WWE and count them as WWE guys. No one knows that, most hardcores don't even know Cage or Omega had a match or run in development.
> 
> So, basically 1 out of 5. That is hardly bad, AEW is allowed to sign guys from there, I have never once heard you make a rant over Mercedes Martinez being in WWE.
> 
> ...


I'm getting tired of having to repeat the same point over and over again because people either don't understand and don't want to clarify or because they want to argue something different.

My sole point is that they have too many people who have come from the WWE system, learned the WWE way, wrestled for the WWE etc. Some guys on there give off the impression that they're WWE castaways going to AEW because they have no other options whilst others weren't WWE stars but still learned the WWE style and came from a WWE affiliate. I'm pretty much saying unless you're a friend of The Elite or were under some kind of WWE deal at some point you have no shot at a deal with AEW because they don't care about you unless you fit that criteria.

The number is 32 guys/girls who had some kind of background in WWE so if you count up all the guys and girls almost half would've spent some time in the WWE at some point. There are maybe 10-15 that are actually deserving of being there.

In regards to Mercedes, she was in the WWE before her one off appearance in AEW and was never contracted to them. Horrible example.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Chip Chipperson said:


> But they are guys with WWE backgrounds which has been my point all along. Recruit away from the WWE developmental system.


but the people i mentioned weren't signed because of what they did in wwe 10-12 years ago. thats insane to think that. ans damn near everyone who has a chance to be a star on tv has been under some sort of contract with wwe and or impact. there really isn't much to scout especially right now as i don't think many big indy promotions are doing shows. bringing in talnet soley because they have 0 wwe background is also dumb to do. pass up on potential stars because wwe don't want them or they wanted out of wwe? again, dumb


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

TKO Wrestling said:


> I guess this will occur until WWE either signs AEW guys or AEW guys sign 2nd contracts.
> 
> Makes sens.e


 WWE signing AEW talent will just be viewed as them moving to the biggest company, the company probably dreamed of working for. It's not fair, but tis life.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

alex0816 said:


> but the people i mentioned weren't signed because of what they did in wwe 10-12 years ago. thats insane to think that. ans damn near everyone who has a chance to be a star on tv has been under some sort of contract with wwe and or impact. there really isn't much to scout especially right now as i don't think many big indy promotions are doing shows. bringing in talnet soley because they have 0 wwe background is also dumb to do. pass up on potential stars because wwe don't want them or they wanted out of wwe? again, dumb












I must be insane but I'm going to try again.

Nobody is saying they're all signed because of what they did in WWE. I am only saying that AEW very clearly has a preference of guys from the WWE training system, ex WWE main roster stars or friends of The Elite. I'm not saying they can't recruit from WWE or friendship circles just saying I'd like to see them change it up a little.

Out of the thousands of wrestlers out there do you genuinely think that the only guys who have a chance to be a star on TV have been under contract with the WWE? @Cult03 has a much better mega list but off the top of my head Alexander Hammerstone, Allysin Kay, Brian Pillman Jr (Who they've somehow managed to get but aren't using well at all), Briscoe Brothers, Dalton Castle, Dylan James (AJPW/New Zealander), Jacob Fatu, Jay Lethal, Marti Belle, Marty Scurll, Michael Elgin, Nick Aldis, Tessa Blanchard, The Von Erich Brothers and Thunder Rosa are 17 examples of people who have never been under contract with WWE and are much better than much of what AEW has already.

What an amazing card we'd have for the upcoming PPV if we could even have something as simple as Alexander Hammerstone Vs Brian Cage, Cody Rhodes Vs Jay Lethal, Briscoe Brothers Vs Kenny/Hangman, MJF/Moxley, Blanchard/Shida, Aldis/Scurll, Elgin/Jericho etc etc. That's only 5 former WWE contracted talents on a 7 match card.

No worries though we've got Britt Baker Vs Big Swole, Darby Vs Brian Cage and Orange Vs Jericho III...


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I must be insane but I'm going to try again.
> 
> Nobody is saying they're all signed because of what they did in WWE. I am only saying that AEW very clearly has a preference of guys from the WWE training system, ex WWE main roster stars or friends of The Elite. I'm not saying they can't recruit from WWE or friendship circles just saying I'd like to see them change it up a little.
> 
> ...


and im saying that these people aren't signed because of what they did in wwe. being in wwe's training system has nothing to do with them being signed, i guarantee you. i wouldn't be shocked if TK had no knowledge of Archer, Cage, Ivellise ever being part of wwe developmental.

Cage(Impact, LU)
Archer(NJPW)
Ivellise(indys)
Pac(indys)
Trent(indys)

thats why these people were signed, not because they have the smallest of wwe umbrellas above their head.

and i never said only people who have been in wwe have a chance to be a star. you're list are good examples, however, most of them have been under contract with wwe or tna in their careers so they have tv experience, they have a fan base. i'd like to see Tessa, Aldis, Lethal, but we don't knwo why they aren't there. maybe they didn't want to sign, maybe AEW doesn't want the controversy when it comes to tessa. we don't know. just making assumptions onwhy people are signed(sure some are valid like Zack Ryder), especially when it comes to the names i mentioned is crazy. 

and hate to break it to you, but Darby and even OC have a good sized fan base which is whhy they were brought in and why they are in their current spots even though i don't agree with OC being in a main event. it's something you have to deal with or not pay attention to unless you want to complain all the time


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Of course AEW is gonna sign former WWE guys. With a roster as big as WWE´s, it´s inevitable that some will end up in AEW, just as some have a stint in ROH, Impact or NJPW.
The only issue I have with this is how Cody (and Jericho) was adamant that they didn´t want ex WWE guys except for maybe 3 or 4.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Could you imagine the roster though with Ka


RapShepard said:


> WWE signing AEW talent will just be viewed as them moving to the biggest company, the company probably dreamed of working for. It's not fair, but tis life.


We will see. In the 90s it was certainly not seen as that, even before Nitro when WCW was the clear #2. But there was no Twittah haha. It was wrestlers going back and forth between the two companies that paid the big cash and had national TV.

EDIT

However, I see your point, it is actually one of usual points too. WWE has a 20 year gap where kids didn't know anything else. That wasn't the case in the 90s, JCP and Vince both went national around the same time and both came from NWA roots.

So, like I always say, it will take until 2040 before AEW is truly solidified. But keeping MJF & Hangman here will be the key to getting there + Mox never going back.


----------



## TeamFlareZakk (Jul 15, 2020)

Billie Kay to go make AEW Iconic and form the new and improved IIconics if WWE fails 🥵🥵


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

alex0816 said:


> and my comparison for the 100th time is between Austin and Cage, Ryder being brought up to make a point about bad castoff signings has nothing to do with who im comparing. not every ex wwe guy has superstar potential, not every ex wwe guy DOESN'T have potential either. just cause you don't like AEW doesn't mean Omega(who's been booked fine for the most part) and think Cage is a non factor doesn't mean they don't have an appeal to modern wrestling fans
> 
> Austin became a megastar after going to wwf, Cage can have similar effect by going to AEW. and no one thinks of Austin as this wcw castoff, just like no one, at least shouldn't, sees Omega and Cage as wwe castoffs.


Austin is a WCW castoff though. He was literally cast off from WCW lol. They were fucking stupid to cast him off, but that's what they did. Yes, Austin did go on to become the biggest star of all-time, but that doesn't mean no one saw potential in him before that. And it doesn't change the facts of his past. 



alex0816 said:


> im talking about how each one of them were presented before and when first joining their new promotions.
> 
> obviously more people were watching then as opposed to now, obviously there were bigger star then opposed to now. i never said Cage is the next Austin, opposite actually, i said no one in wrestling will ever reach Austin status. my comparison was how they each came from different companies and how Austin became a huge star desptie being a wcw castoff(something i'd never call him btw) and Cage can be a star for AEW despite being a wwe castoff(even though he made a big name for himself outside wwe for a decade some people wanna label him as that)
> 
> ...


Being presented as a mid-carder in WCW is so much more prestigious than being presented as a top guy in TNA though. Austin very clearly had potential. You're buying into this WWE myth that Austin was nobody before Austin 3:16. Then you're using this myth to justify whatever signing you want. Austin is not only a very unique case, but it's just not true that nobody saw anything in him. He had been a US Champion, one half of a critically acclaimed tag team and had at least one five star match on his resume. It's a pet peeve of mine when wrestling fans act like anyone could have Steve Austin potential, completely ignoring the fact that he was Steve Austin, haha.


----------



## Mister Sinister (Aug 7, 2013)

Pretty much all of the best talent they should sign has worked for WWE before. I don't want more nobodies. They have enough nobodies.

They need former champions with the tools to carry quarter hours and divisions: Tessa Blanchard, James Storm and Austin Aries.

"Making stars" is overrated wrestling internet community bullshit.


----------



## ProjectGargano (Apr 7, 2018)

LOL man, worst thread ever! No Rowan after all! Delete it while you can!


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Turns out these spoilers were fake and also non-WWE talent got a lot of shine this week.


----------



## Botchy SinCara (Apr 24, 2013)

So who wants to eat crow ? All this bitching about Cody and all that complaining about Harper..now look


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Botchy SinCara said:


> So who wants to eat crow ? All this bitching about Cody and all that complaining about Harper..now look


The Dark Order is still shitty. They had a good night, doesn't erase a year of overwhelming trash. The Dark Order is not "suck it haters" territory.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

RapShepard said:


> The Dark Order is still shitty. They had a good night, doesn't erase a year of overwhelming trash. The Dark Order is not "suck it haters" territory.


And if it gets good, we will all be happy, but that does somehow delete how horrible they were for so long. It just means they realized it sucks and changed.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Lheurch said:


> And if it gets good, we will all be happy, but that does somehow delete how horrible they were for so long. It just means they realized it sucks and changed.


Yes, but they actually have to be consistently good. I don't think anybody would say they've never had good segments especially last year when they first started doing the little ad type things. But they have to be consistently good, not good every blue moon


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

No Rowan Chip...tsk tsk


----------



## Botchy SinCara (Apr 24, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> The Dark Order is still shitty. They had a good night, doesn't erase a year of overwhelming trash. The Dark Order is not "suck it haters" territory.


Wasn't talking about the dark order winning was talking about buying into spoilers and complaining about wwe talent coming over before it even happened also talking about those saying Cody always wins


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Botchy SinCara said:


> Wasn't talking about the dark order winning was talking about buying into spoilers and complaining about wwe talent coming over before it even happened also talking about those saying Cody always wins


Fair enough, my apologies for misreading.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Geeee said:


> Turns out these spoilers were fake and also non-WWE talent got a lot of shine this week.


We found out the spoilers were fake like a day or two after the thread. My point still remains that AEW has a shit ton of WWE guys or ex WWE guys under contract and every special guest seems to be a WWE guy or a guy who has a career owned by WWE.

Non WWE guys got a lot of shine this week? I haven't watched this weeks show but read the results and the main event saw Brodie Lee (A former WWE guy) overcome Cody Rhodes (Another former WWE guy) after Cody has been smashing these non WWE guys for a solid 2 months now. AEW has now had 4/4 WWE guys win their singles championships.


----------



## Boldgerg (Apr 2, 2017)

Oh, we're still continuing with this weird, nonsensical obsession over wrestlers previous employment history.

Cool.


----------



## Prince Devitt (Mar 21, 2020)

I don't get what the big deal is about hiring ex wwe guys, to me it's like saying I don't want player x on my favourite hockey team because he played for a different NHL team before we got him(or NBA,NFL,MLB, etc) signing free agents to your team is not frowned upon in any pro sports league.... so why should wrestling be different?


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Where was rowan then @Chip Chipperson ?? Did you get your source wrong??


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Prince Devitt said:


> I don't get what the big deal is about hiring ex wwe guys, to me it's like saying I don't want player x on my favourite hockey team because he played for a different NHL team before we got him(or NBA,NFL,MLB, etc) signing free agents to your team is not frowned upon in any pro sports league.... so why should wrestling be different?


If AEW and WWE's were equals that'd be a valid point. People in this thread have said "WELL WCW DID IT!" but it didn't come across quite as desperate for attention when WCW did it because WWF and WCW were equals.

Let me give you an example, are you familiar with the James Bond series? One time Bond George Lazenby for many years did TV episodes, commercials, movies etc where producers would desperately try to use the fact he was James Bond as a way to draw interest. These producers would never have him change anything, they'd never get creative with him, they'd have him drive around in Bond type cars, doing Bond type things, drinking Bond drinks etc. This was their desperate attempt to say "See? Remember THIS guy?!" as a way to get their projects attention. Lazenby to his credit probably made a shit ton of money off doing projects like these but it was desperate from the people hiring him.

AEW is kind of the same. Nobody is talking badly about them signing the best free agents for their team but when they're bringing in guys who were hot a decade or so ago (In some cases close to two decades ago) and saying "See? Remember THIS guy?!" it comes off as super desperate for attention especially when they're shoehorning these people into roles that could be filled by younger and more talented people.

To give a sports example it would be like an NFL team like Cleveland signing a second stringer from the Patriots simply because he's from a better team and then acting like the guy is awesome when he never really was.



Carter84 said:


> Where was rowan then @Chip Chipperson ?? Did you get your source wrong??


I already conceded that the spoilers were wrong like a day or two after this thread. My point still stands though, 39 former WWE employees in the same arena? Too much.


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> If AEW and WWE's were equals that'd be a valid point. People in this thread have said "WELL WCW DID IT!" but it didn't come across quite as desperate for attention when WCW did it because WWF and WCW were equals.
> 
> Let me give you an example, are you familiar with the James Bond series? One time Bond George Lazenby for many years did TV episodes, commercials, movies etc where producers would desperately try to use the fact he was James Bond as a way to draw interest. These producers would never have him change anything, they'd never get creative with him, they'd have him drive around in Bond type cars, doing Bond type things, drinking Bond drinks etc. This was their desperate attempt to say "See? Remember THIS guy?!" as a way to get their projects attention. Lazenby to his credit probably made a shit ton of money off doing projects like these but it was desperate from the people hiring him.
> 
> ...


I didn't know you had, thanks for the update chip!


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

People want Chip to be wrong more than they want to discuss his point. No surprise there.


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

The Wood said:


> People want Chip to be wrong more than they want to discuss his point. No surprise there.


We aren't going to all get on , that's life but we are all entitled to our opinions, if anybody has issues with one another they should go to rants instead of spoiling the discussion for others, its fucking childish.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

The Wood said:


> People want Chip to be wrong more than they want to discuss his point. No surprise there.



I think its just this thread is tired of the way you both talk like extremists in here and act like elite knowledged people that drag on extensive rants in mass article formas about everything as if we're journalists waiting for views. The guy literally bragged about his accomplishments as if they remotely help him in here or anyone gives a shit. That says enough

Its no coincidence that so many people are annoyed by the same few people in here. Sometimes thats a sign of how someone cary's their attitude and how they fail to engage outside of themselves.

Now i dont hate you or anything but pointing out the thread in general as a whole. I have hardly been part of it and rarely get into scuffs in here with anyone but i guess im noticing its worse lately


----------



## JimmyJoeJunior (Oct 28, 2010)

Exposed yourself with this thread Chippy old chum.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

shandcraig said:


> I think its just this thread is tired of the way you both talk like extremists in here and act like elite knowledged people that drag on extensive rants in mass article formas about everything as if we're journalists waiting for views. The guy literally bragged about his accomplishments as if they remotely help him in here or anyone gives a shit. That says enough
> 
> Its no coincidence that so many people are annoyed by the same few people in here. Sometimes thats a sign of how someone cary's their attitude and how they fail to engage outside of themselves.
> 
> Now i dont hate you or anything but pointing out the thread in general as a whole. I have hardly been part of it and rarely get into scuffs in here with anyone but i guess im noticing its worse lately


Are you okay, shandcraig?


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

The Wood said:


> Are you okay, shandcraig?


Always good. Just pointing out how ive noticed people in here lately. Anways couldn't care less, back to minding my self. You do you! Just perspective


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> If AEW and WWE's were equals that'd be a valid point. People in this thread have said "WELL WCW DID IT!" but it didn't come across quite as desperate for attention when WCW did it because WWF and WCW were equals.
> 
> Let me give you an example, are you familiar with the James Bond series? One time Bond George Lazenby for many years did TV episodes, commercials, movies etc where producers would desperately try to use the fact he was James Bond as a way to draw interest. These producers would never have him change anything, they'd never get creative with him, they'd have him drive around in Bond type cars, doing Bond type things, drinking Bond drinks etc. This was their desperate attempt to say "See? Remember THIS guy?!" as a way to get their projects attention. Lazenby to his credit probably made a shit ton of money off doing projects like these but it was desperate from the people hiring him.
> 
> ...


Dude there are 30 teams in all 3 major sports leagues. Just because the WWE are the Yankees, and AEW might be like the Royals, doesn't mean they aren't both major league. You act like all 30 teams are the most famous of all time, doesn't work that way.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Dude there are 30 teams in all 3 major sports leagues. Just because the WWE are the Yankees, and AEW might be like the Royals, doesn't mean they aren't both major league. You act like all 30 teams are the most famous of all time, doesn't work that way.


But WWE and AEW aren't even in the same league. AEW is in the same league as NJPW (Barely), TNA, ROH, MLW etc. WWE is a guy going down a league.


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## TeamFlareZakk (Jul 15, 2020)

Chris22 said:


> He was in WWE around 2009-2010 and wrestled under the name Vance Archer.


He was in SvR 2011


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