# ROH Wrestling - NJPW Invasion



## Last Chancery

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

Can't wait to see Okada throw a Rainmaker Adam Page's way. In the opening match of the night. And the only match featuring overseas talent.


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## XxTalonxX

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

If this is really gonna happen, it's gonna be interesting to see who starts the invasion.


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## flag sabbath

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

YTR vs. Steen please!


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## RKing85

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

Just saw this on Observer.

The very next thing I did was go to westjet.com and check out the price of flights for that weekend.


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## rohisawesome34

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

Preety sweet I'm definetely gonna go to this Hammerstein is probably gonna be sold out by late next week first time that's gonna happen for wrestling there since ecw one night stand in 2005 or maybe that's just my thinking lol. I live on Long Island ain't far from me gonna be fun roh will officially announce it in the next half hour!


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## amhlilhaus

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

if I was still single I'd be going. maybe with some luck they'll come back and be closer to ohio


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## Dimas75

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

Should be interesting. I didnt really like the last NJPW tour from May'2011 in Jersey/NY, but that was when NJPW had their bad period, Okada wasnt a star yet, had too many people like Dan Maff on the show, and the booking kinda sucked. So this one should be much better.


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## Mattyb2266

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*



rohisawesome34 said:


> Preety sweet I'm definetely gonna go to this Hammerstein is probably gonna be sold out by late next week first time that's gonna happen for wrestling there since ecw one night stand in 2005 or maybe that's just my thinking lol. I live on Long Island ain't far from me gonna be fun roh will officially announce it in the next half hour!


I could be wrong, but I highly doubt ROH will sell out this far in advance. I've seen the Hammerstein packed and they were still pushing tickets the day of the show. Not to mention the last few shows I've been to, they've been struggling to fill up the first balcony, let alone sell out.


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## Chismo

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*



Dimas75 said:


> Should be interesting. I didnt really like the last NJPW tour from May'2011 in Jersey/NY, *but that was when NJPW had their bad period*, Okada wasnt a star yet, had too many people like Dan Maff on the show, and the booking kinda sucked. So this one should be much better.


:kobe NJPW 2011 was great.


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## Bubz

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

Yeah I was going to say that, what was bad about NJ in 2011?

This sounds interesting, I mean they will probably be guys from the lower ends of the NJ roster, I'd imagine anyway.


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## Ganso Bomb

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*



Bubz said:


> Yeah I was going to say that, what was bad about NJ in 2011?
> 
> This sounds interesting, I mean they will probably be guys from the lower ends of the NJ roster, I'd imagine anyway.


Tanahashi and Okada will be coming over. Gedo, Jado & Kushida are tagging along as well.

Can only assume they'll be using several of their American guys like Anderson, Shelley, Bucks, etc. too.


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## EmbassyForever

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

I know I'm a weird person, but I'm more excited for guys like Kushida (vs ACH), Liger (w/ Kushida vs Bucks), Jado and Gedo (vs reDRagon, in a similar match to Devitt/Gedo) than Tanahashi and Okada. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Okada and Tanahashi's mark, but their styles are so different from ROH's top guys. Besides Cole/Steen vs Nakamura and maybe Strong/Okada, I don't really care for other match-ups... I'm hoping for Tanahashi/Okada main event in one of these shows. Should be fun nonetheless.

EDIT: And Hero/Tanahashi.


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## seabs

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

*Don't care because barely anyone in ROH is worth matching them up with to satisfy me desires at least. Is anyone in ROH worth a damn these days? I liked ACH but I fell totally behind in 2013. I'd say Jacobs but I don't see him matching up well with anyone from New Japan. If ROH got AJ in then Styles facing one of the top guys could be good but other than that this isn't gonna produce anything great.*


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## Chismo

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

ROH's drones look like total jobbers compared to New Japan's wrestlers. But it doesn't matter anyway, because whoever from ROH faces anyone above Yujiro's place on totem pole, is going to lose.

Styles is the only guy whom I could see going over someone like, let's say... Makabe? And even that is quite a stretch.


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## USAUSA1

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

I would just book Tanahashi vs Okada on US soil.


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## Toonami4Life

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

That should be great and fun to watch.


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## MTheBehemoth

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

Nakamura vs. ????

Okada vs. ????

Tanahashi vs. ????

NJPW are destroying their star power, really.

P.S. N.Y.? Bad f'n idea.


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## Iceman.

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

Hope K.E.S is involved


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## ttcmin

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

Coming to Toronto.......Sweet!!


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## BoothBayBruce

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

got my tickets for NYC already. dont need to see match ups. amped


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## scrilla

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*



Last Chancery said:


> Can't wait to see Okada throw a Rainmaker Adam Page's way. In the opening match of the night. And the only match featuring overseas talent.


title doesn't say he's going to TNA, brother.


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## Denny Crane

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

This could be something to spark CM Punk's and AJ Styles interests to take on Tanahashi and Okada on different nights.


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## Snapdragon

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*



Chismo said:


> ROH's drones look like total jobbers compared to New Japan's wrestlers. But it doesn't matter anyway, because whoever from ROH faces anyone above Yujiro's place on totem pole, is going to lose.
> 
> Styles is the only guy whom I could see going over someone like, let's say... Makabe? And even that is quite a stretch.


Yeah I'm sure ROH is bringing in New Japan just to have their roster job to them fpalm

That was sarcasm btw. I love that ROH went through the trouble of creating two huge supershows and bringing the top guys in Japan to North America......

and people STILL find a way to be upset and complain about it. Holy crap.


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## Chismo

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

I hope Ishii and Nakamura teach Elgin and The Worst Wrestler on the Planet how to pace strikes and apply proper holds.


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## AEA

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

:mark:


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## seabs

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

*Actually it's probably more likely the main event is a New Japan tag with no ROH guys so it might be worth my interest. Or a mixed tag which I guess could be bearable.*


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## GothicBohemian

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

I need to see the card before I can decide if this is worth my time or not. ROH sort of lost me over the past few years and it’s going to take more than a few NJPW guys to get me too excited about them at this point.


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## just1988

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

*I'm a real sucker from cross promotion, maybe this will be what get's me back into ROH*


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## amhlilhaus

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

tanahashi v okada, book it.


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## scrilla

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

ROH tv has been consistently the best wrestling television show going this year. feel bad for the whingers.


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## malek

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

Would love to see Time Splitters vs ReDragon and Shibata vs Hero.


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## ROHFan19

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*



scrilla said:


> ROH tv has been consistently the best wrestling television show going this year. feel bad for the whingers.


Agreed. ROH has been pretty shitty since 2008 but the first 2 months of this year have been very good. And all the way up until May it looks like good stuff will continue


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## scrilla

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

always wanted to see an Ibushi/London match. i wonder if he'll be brought over.


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## ROHFan19

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*



scrilla said:


> always wanted to see an Ibushi/London match. i wonder if he'll be brought over.


DDT has shows on the 11th and 17th so not likely. Ibushi was the only other one I was dying to see.


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## JoseDRiveraTCR7

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

Apparently this is the poster for Border Wars:


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## Manu_Styles

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

The video that was leaked online announced for the NJPW/ROH shows:

- IWGP Heavyweight Champion Kazuchika Okada
- IWGP Intercontinental Champion Hiroshi Tanahashi
- Shinsuke Nakamura
- Jushin "Thunder" Liger
- KUSHIDA
- Tamae Watanabe 
- Jado & Gedo


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## BornBad

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

Okada vs Styles please


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## Cliffy

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

Nakamura has Swag for days in that poster :mark:


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## GothicBohemian

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

Seeing more of who’s involved on the NJPW side, my interest has grown exponentially. A month ago, I’d thought I was going to be in Toronto that weekend too... :cussin:


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## Wrestling is Life

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

Was really hoping Alex Shelley would join KUSHIDA on this event...I suppose there is still hope. Would love to see Shelley back in an ROH ring.


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## Manu_Styles

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

Watanabe also debuted last night at the TV Tapings for ROH


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## ecw718

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

I would have thought if they were announcing it in Philly somehow Philly would have had one of the shows.


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## Bubz

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

Well I admit I did not think the top 3 stars in the company would be doing ROH shows.


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## Lariatoh!

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*

Can't wait to see the card. Pretty cool concept. Well done ROH for putting this together.


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## Chismo

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*



Bubz said:


> Well I admit I did not think the top 3 stars in the company would be doing ROH shows.


That's because the shows are co-promoted, it's not just ROH shows with guest stars from NJPW.


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## BKKsoulcity

Okada vs. Styles
Nakamura vs. Hero (STRIKING GALORE)
Tanahashi vs. Adam Cole


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## RKing85

Long shot, but any Toronto people here who know any half decent hotels close to Ted Reeve Arena?


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## JoseDRiveraTCR7

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*



Cliffy Byro said:


> Nakamura has Swag for days in that poster :mark:


When doesn't he have swag?


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## Snapdragon

*Re: Roh wrestling njpw invasion*



JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> Apparently this is the poster for Border Wars:


They said the poster here is just a teaser and the real ones will be released soon


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## JoseDRiveraTCR7

Oh, okay.


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## RKing85

Plane tickets and event tickets are booked for the Toronto show!

Does ROH mail out actual tickets? Or do they just have them at the door?


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## ROHFan19

RKing85 said:


> Plane tickets and event tickets are booked for the Toronto show!
> 
> Does ROH mail out actual tickets? Or do they just have them at the door?


They mail them to you and enjoy the show!


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## Manu_Styles




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## JoseDRiveraTCR7

Manu_Styles said:


>


Fixed


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## Toonami4Life

Should be a tremendous event. Styles versus Tanahashi has to happen and that would be a MOTY hands down. They only faced once and that was eight years ago.


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## USAUSA1

Court Bauer really making an impact on ROH.


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## Ham and Egger

I'm so going to that May show! I'm so hyped! :mark: :mark: :mark:

Edit: Buying tickets now!


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## Snapdragon

USAUSA1 said:


> Court Bauer really making an impact on ROH.


I really doubt Court Bauer has anything to do with this considering he's only been working in the SBG office for like a month


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## DPW

Can't wait for this to happen!:cheer


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## Chismo

Has Adam Cole had a standout match in ROH since he got the main event push? A four star match maybe? Because he sure as hell hasn't had one in PWG ever since he defeated Steen for the title. His last great match, I reckon. What makes him eligible to be in your wet dreams for facing Tanahashi and Nakamura?


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## ROHFan19

Chismo said:


> Has Adam Cole had a standout match in ROH since he got the main event push? A four star match maybe? Because he sure as hell hasn't had one in PWG ever since he defeated Steen for the title. His last great match, I reckon. What makes him eligible to be in your wet dreams for facing Tanahashi and Nakamura?


To be fair he hasn't really had many singles matches since then. Thought his match vs Gargano was pretty good from ASW, but yeah not ****. I think he's fully capable of having a **** with Jacobs/Ciampa/Strong/Lethal. Don't know if we'll ever see any of those match ups though. 

The problem is, who besides AJ can work with Tanahashi, Okada and Nakamura? Nobody really is on their level. Elgin? Roddy? Personally I'd like to see Nakamura vs Ciampa, AJ vs Tanahashi and Okada vs Strong.


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## Snapdragon

Chismo said:


> Has Adam Cole had a standout match in ROH since he got the main event push? A four star match maybe? Because he sure as hell hasn't had one in PWG ever since he defeated Steen for the title. His last great match, I reckon. What makes him eligible to be in your wet dreams for facing Tanahashi and Nakamura?


His match was Hero from the Anniversary show was a lot better than their PWG one. 

Cole vs Elgin vs Jay Briscoe was pretty damn good from Final Battle. If you want to count it the 1 hour+ 8 man tag from Chicago was incredible

Edit: Cole using screwy finishes has hurt his match quality a bit as a heel but it works because he's drawing great heat in PWG and ROH so I'm fine with slightly lower quality matches if we actually get a heel on the indies that surprise! Draws good heat.


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## Ham and Egger

Although I'm happy we got the Nakamura, Okada, and Tanahasi on the show but I'd be happy as fuck to see Ibushi and Devitt on the card too! :mark:


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## RKing85

I hope they mix it up. Maybe have one or two New Japan guys verses New Japan guys match-ups, and then also have one or two New Japan verses ROH guys match-ups.


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## BornBad

ROHFan19 said:


> The problem is, who besides AJ can work with Tanahashi, Okada and Nakamura? Nobody really is on their level. Elgin? Roddy? Personally I'd like to see Nakamura vs Ciampa, AJ vs Tanahashi and Okada vs Strong.


Steen deserves a match with Tanajashi or Nakamura. 

IMO If they don't book Okada vs Styles it will be a major disappointment.


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## Canadian

So I just bought 6 tickets in row 5 for the show in my hometown of Toronto. I only started watching ROH last year after seeing Border Wars at the same arena (where I also used to play hockey as a kid lol). 

I was blwon off the map with the Taiji Ishimori and Eddie Edwards match and I was so relieved to see how great tag wrestling was when I saw C&C Wrestle Factory vs ACH and TT. Immediately hooked.

Now, for those of you with clearly more knowledge and experience with these two companies, I have a question? With Ishimori signed with PWN, could he potentially be a part of these supershow or is there an exclusivity deal in place that prevents him from this and similar events?


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## ecw718

Nope. Wouldn't make any sense for him to be there particularly as these are ROH VS NJPW type shows. He isn't a ROH guy or a NJPW guy.


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## Chismo

You know what'd make my year as a wrestling fan? Iizuka winning ROH Title from Cole by DQ.


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## Dimas75

RKing85 said:


> I hope they mix it up. Maybe have one or two New Japan guys verses New Japan guys match-ups, and then also have one or two New Japan verses ROH guys match-ups.


Since the theme of the show is an 'invasion', it doesnt really make sense to have the NJPW guys fight NJPW guys. Its ok to have some ROH guys face eachother since they arent the ones invading.


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## Joshi Judas

All you lucky bastards who get to watch the *RAINNMAKAHH, KING OF STRONG STYLE AND ACE OF THE UNIVERSE* live, I hate you.


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## Kaze Ni Nare

Quoth the Raven said:


> All you lucky bastards who get to watch the *RAINNMAKAHH, KING OF STRONG STYLE AND ACE OF THE UNIVERSE* live, I hate you.


...

:genius

I agree with this. 

Also is the actual list of NJPW guys who are gonna be doing the shows known yet? I see Liger, Nakamura, Tanahashi, Kushida & Okada, Jado/Gedo ... Cause I live in Florida but I'm really thinking about getting the tickets ... but if Suzuki is there I'm gonna have an orgasm & get the tickets right now. :lol


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## Chismo

Quoth the Raven said:


> All you lucky bastards who get to watch the *RAINNMAKAHH, KING OF STRONG STYLE AND ACE OF THE UNIVERSE* live, please don't ruin the atmosphere with your moronic and over-enthusiastic chants. Thank you.


Fixed.


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## vault21




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## Canadian

Well as a guy pretty fresh to watching indy organizations live (only a year) after having grown up religiously with WWF, WCW, and ECW I give you my word I will enjoy every second of this and allow you all who can't make it to Toronto or New York to live vicariously through me and my buddies.


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## BKKsoulcity

Three gods are going to be in Canada and I won't be there ....shit


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## Snapdragon

Kaze Ni Nare said:


> ...
> 
> :genius
> 
> I agree with this.
> 
> Also is the actual list of NJPW guys who are gonna be doing the shows known yet? I see Liger, Nakamura, Tanahashi, Kushida & Okada, Jado/Gedo ... Cause I live in Florida but I'm really thinking about getting the tickets ... but if Suzuki is there I'm gonna have an orgasm & get the tickets right now. :lol


If you're going to get tickets you'd better get them within the next 2 weeks because I hear New York is nearly gone.


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## ROHFan19

Snapdragon said:


> If you're going to get tickets you'd better get them within the next 2 weeks because I hear New York is nearly gone.


There is only 166 tickets left for NY. So it will probably be sold out by the weekend unless they add more tickets somehow.


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## Kaze Ni Nare

That quickly huh? Might have to pass then ... bleh

Knowing that New Japan's 3 biggest stars are gonna be in the states, it's gonna kill me not to get them.


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## RKing85

Meltzer's newsletter this weekend said tickets sales for both shows just went through the roof when this deal was announced. Not surprizing.


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## EscapedIllusion

Finally got my tickets can't wait for this show!


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Lord Wolfe

Gotta get me those tickets!! How much do they cost?


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## FITZ

I just bought the tickets for the show in New York. Seeing the New Japan guys in person is something that I probably won't have many chances to do in the future.


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## ecw718

If only people were this interested when JAPW ran those NJPW shows.


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## Snapdragon

ecw718 said:


> If only people were this interested when JAPW ran those NJPW shows.


How the heck did JAPW get that deal is my question


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## RKing85

yeah, I never understood that either. 

As Taylor said, this is probably the most realistic chance in the near future to see these guys in person and no way I'm passing it up.


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## Mattyb2266

I should go to this but I have so many other wrestling shows and concerts in the next few months I can't really justify spending the money for the tickets, and the train ride there and back. So ill probably have to pass this NY show up.


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## Obfuscation

One of the shows being in New York is about as much of a bummer as having to stomach seeing Michael Elgin working vs these guys. b/c you know it's gonna happen.


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## Chismo

Elgin and O'Reilly to finally meet their idol Ishii. I hope he elbows them in a toilett.


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## Japanese Puroresu

HayleySabin said:


> One of the shows being in New York is about as much of a bummer as having to stomach seeing Michael Elgin working vs these guys. b/c you know it's gonna happen.


I think you're too hard on Elgin. I'm not a huge fan of his but he can work a fun match from time to time, just have faith.


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## Obfuscation

There's no faith.


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## Snapdragon

HayleySabin said:


> One of the shows being in New York is about as much of a bummer as having to stomach seeing Michael Elgin working vs these guys. b/c you know it's gonna happen.


One of the top, best and most consistent indy performers on the circuit who routinely has the first or second best match on any card he's on for the last 2 years having a match was top Japanese talent.

Who'd want that? fpalm


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## seabs

*Heaven forbid someone dislikes a wrestler you like.

And Elgin is terrible. Unless he changed dramatically in the last 6 or so months since I last saw him he'll still suck too. And he will still suck now because he's only wrestling a bunch of other Michael Elgin's and nobody will ever improve on the Indies as long as all the decent talent is signed up by WWE or goes abroad.*


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## Mattyb2266

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has really been disliking Elgin. I normally try to find the positives in everyone and every match, but I just can't lately with Elgin. As far as I'm concerned he's been actually getting a little worse. I haven't hated anything in wrestling as much as I did when he and Uhaa were in the same ring at AAW a couple shows ago.


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## Chismo

Honestly, I was a decent Elgin fan until the BOLA finals where he and The Worst Wrestler on the Planet tried to recreate the Shibata/Ishii spots. 

Although I don't like him anymore, he can definitely provide strong performances sometimes. I'm just a not a fan of the guy anymore. Just like Hero, he strikes me as a supergeek doing pro-wrestling, instead of an actual pro-wrestler.


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## JoseDRiveraTCR7

Add me to the not a fan of Elgin wagon. There have been stuff that I like and I think he's a consistently okayish-good worker, but I don't get his popularity or see why he's great. This may be way off, but I think the reason why some of his fans like him is because they're chasing the Benoit dragon.


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## Snapdragon

Seabs said:


> *Heaven forbid someone dislikes a wrestler you like.
> 
> And Elgin is terrible. Unless he changed dramatically in the last 6 or so months since I last saw him he'll still suck too. And he will still suck now because he's only wrestling a bunch of other Michael Elgin's and nobody will ever improve on the Indies as long as all the decent talent is signed up by WWE or goes abroad.*


I never said it was a problem for him to dislike a wrestler I like.

I've voiced my displeasure of Johnny Gargano here many times while the majority of the forum salivates over him. It's ok to not like Elgin but I personally think calling him terrible is a huge stretch.


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## Obfuscation

Oh, he's accessibly terrible.


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## FITZ

I'm a fan of Elgin when he's in the ring with a small guy that he can throw around. My favorite match of his was against TJP a few years ago from Final Battle because he did a bunch of cool power moves and they had a fun match. The problem with his other matches that I've seen is that when he tried to make them anything more than fun he just ends up in matches where he just does moves for 20 minutes and nothing else. I remember a match with Jay Lethal in PWG and it was just the worst thing ever. 

I bought tickets to see the New Japan guys and the handful of people from ROH that I still like (Steen, Cole, and Hero I'm guessing he will be there).


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## USAUSA1

Elgin is terrible? Strong words, he is over in every indy promotion.


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## Last Chancery

To say Elgin is "terrible" when there are guys on literally every show who blow spots and look lost in the ring is hilarious. Elgin is at least "average" as a wrestler if you really want to get into it more objectively. Does he do everything a wrestler is supposed to do, more or less? Yes. Is he interesting or captivating while doing it? Your mileage may vary. Maybe you don't like his style or his personality, and personally, I don't really care. I just think it's arrogant for people to feel this strongly about the guy. It's weird, he's well-liked almost everywhere he goes, he's friends with virtually every wrestler he encounters, he is passionate about the industry and his place in it, and he is a good ambassador, often helping his friends get spots in the companies where he works. That's not "terrible" to me. That's "employable," and companies like PWG and ROH wouldn't keep booking him if he was flat out terrible.

Sensationalism be what it may here, but I have to laugh at this place sometimes. Elgin's far from my favorite, but the hive mind around here is kind of obvious. Nobody will ever admit it, but Seabs is King here -- rightly so, he knows his shit, he's got the fancy Admin colors, all that -- and he has his followers. Again, nobody's going to say it's true, but from my time here, I've noticed that once an opinion forms, a consensus builds. Nobody wants to be the one person who, say, likes Elgin, or hates Adam Cole or whomever the top guy is now, I wouldn't know. And all I'm saying is it seems, and it feels, like *some* folks build their opinions off those of others. That's all I'm saying.

I've seen Elgin work dozens of times live, and I hated him at first too. Hated him. And part of me still dislikes his character, or lack thereof. But he's got a good head on his shoulders and he is worthy of respect. That's my opinion, and it's the opinion of a lot of other people. I'm not defending Elgin as a favorite of mine, just somebody who I pay money to see wrestle every month. And indeed, his matches usually are the best.


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## Obfuscation

Seabs dictates everything I approve on. How else would I know who Dean Allmark is?


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## Canadian

I have no gripes with Elgin. He lives 20 minutes from my house and I've seen him live twice and a bunch of times on TV. He is not my favourite performer by any stretch but I love his prolonged suplex. It always gets fans going.

One guy who pops huge in Canada that I simply can't stand is Kevin Steen. But that is wrestling; you have guys you like and guys you don't. One man's cup of tea, is another's piss.

I've never seen NJPW in any capacity beyond YouTube highlights and when Kushida fought Adam Page in a fantastic match this past August in Toronto. My favourite style is very technically oriented and well choreographed, particularly in the tag team division. The guys that are well worth my dollars are C&C, Young Bucks, Adrenaline Rush, and Alex Koslov.

I'm going to see Dragongate USA, ROH, WM XXX, and RAW next month but to be perfectly honest I am looking extremely forward to this ROH/NJPW show in Toronto a lot more than any one of those.


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## seabs

USAUSA1 said:


> Elgin is terrible? Strong words, he is over in every indy promotion.


*Being over doesn't mean you're not terrible. Davey Richards was over.*


Last Chancery said:


> To say Elgin is "terrible" when there are guys on literally every show who blow spots and look lost in the ring is hilarious. Elgin is at least "average" as a wrestler if you really want to get into it more objectively. Does he do everything a wrestler is supposed to do, more or less? Yes. Is he interesting or captivating while doing it? Your mileage may vary. Maybe you don't like his style or his personality, and personally, I don't really care. I just think it's arrogant for people to feel this strongly about the guy. It's weird, he's well-liked almost everywhere he goes, he's friends with virtually every wrestler he encounters, he is passionate about the industry and his place in it, and he is a good ambassador, often helping his friends get spots in the companies where he works. That's not "terrible" to me. That's "employable," and companies like PWG and ROH wouldn't keep booking him if he was flat out terrible.
> 
> Sensationalism be what it may here, but I have to laugh at this place sometimes. Elgin's far from my favorite, but the hive mind around here is kind of obvious. Nobody will ever admit it, but Seabs is King here -- rightly so, he knows his shit, he's got the fancy Admin colors, all that -- and he has his followers. Again, nobody's going to say it's true, but from my time here, I've noticed that once an opinion forms, a consensus builds. Nobody wants to be the one person who, say, likes Elgin, or hates Adam Cole or whomever the top guy is now, I wouldn't know. And all I'm saying is it seems, and it feels, like *some* folks build their opinions off those of others. That's all I'm saying.
> 
> I've seen Elgin work dozens of times live, and I hated him at first too. Hated him. And part of me still dislikes his character, or lack thereof. But he's got a good head on his shoulders and he is worthy of respect. That's my opinion, and it's the opinion of a lot of other people. I'm not defending Elgin as a favorite of mine, just somebody who I pay money to see wrestle every month. And indeed, his matches usually are the best.


*Being better than bad wrestlers who blow spots doesn't make you better. It makes him better in comparison but it doesn't make Elgin better in his own right. He can execute moves well. Ok then so he's good at doing moves. That doesn't equate to being a good worker. Middle paragraph made me smile though. I AM KING.*


----------



## Last Chancery

Seabs said:


> *Being over doesn't mean you're not terrible. Davey Richards was over.*
> 
> 
> *Being better than bad wrestlers who blow spots doesn't make you better. It makes him better in comparison but it doesn't make Elgin better in his own right. He can execute moves well. Ok then so he's good at doing moves. That doesn't equate to being a good worker. Middle paragraph made me smile though. I AM KING.*


And Richards isn't terrible. Not in my mind. He's not good, either, but I can't call him terrible. Maybe I just rate wrestlers different than everybody else. Like, I would say Daniel Bryan is a 10/10. He's the total package, fully realized and fleshed out, he's safe and well-liked. "Terrible" to me would be a 1 or 2, and that would be reserved for guys just breaking into the business, who can't work a match worth a damn. Richards can work matches. He has the potential to be good, to sell, to.. not be Davey Richards. And based on that alone, I would rate him like, a 6. He doesn't draw me in at all, but I recognize that he is crisp with what he does, he gets the crowd going, etc. He has enough qualities that would push him past "terrible" in my book. Then again, I'm trying to be as objective as possible, putting any personal biases aside. Personally, I don't like Davey at all. But that's irrelevant in my opinion.

And, yes, you are King. I wasn't blowing smoke up your butt here, I was throwing down a reality. An observable reality. You have a lot more influence than you think, and it's not always easy to pick up on, but it's there.


----------



## KingCrash

Elgin wouldn't be my first choice for a NJPW matchup more because he's been hit or miss with guest/one-shots than because of how good or bad he is. Elgin's not first tier great but he's fine and a lot more tolerable outside ROH for whatever reason but can still entertain unlike guys like Matt Taven & Rhett Titus.


----------



## seabs

*Different interpretations of "terrible" here it seems. Maybe terrible is slightly hyperbolic but my point is that he really isn't a good worker. That doesn't mean people can't like him but don't tell me that Elgin is a good worker. Sure he isn't some rookie breaking through in terms of crispness so by that definition no he isn't terrible. That's not the definition of a good worker that I'm using though. So I guess going by that you can say he's not terrible but at the same time he's not good either by any respectable standards for what makes someone a good worker. *


----------



## Snapdragon

Seabs said:


> *Different interpretations of "terrible" here it seems. Maybe terrible is slightly hyperbolic but my point is that he really isn't a good worker. That doesn't mean people can't like him but don't tell me that Elgin is a good worker. Sure he isn't some rookie breaking through in terms of crispness so by that definition no he isn't terrible. That's not the definition of a good worker that I'm using though. So I guess going by that you can say he's not terrible but at the same time he's not good either by any respectable standards for what makes someone a good worker. *


Who are you comparing him to on the US indy scene then? If Elgin is terrible, who do you consider average, above average, and great?


----------



## seabs

*I'm not comparing him to anyone on the US Indies. Honestly barely anyone left on the US Indies is above average and I know Indy fans will hate that but it's true. An act like Young Bucks are great. I'd say anyone who is above doing moves because they're moves is above average. So by that definition barely anyone on the US Indy scene is above average. What makes a good worker is way too big of a topic that I just don't have time to delve into right now though but that's the shortest form. I haven't watched an Elgin match for long enough now that I'm not really qualified to say how good he is or isn't at this very moment in time but unless he added either a personality or some psychology (as in meaning to what he does) to his wrestling then he's still at best average. If you go out and have a match and there's no reason to what you're performing then you're not a good worker is the short and end of it tbh.*


----------



## BoothBayBruce

Elgin is decent, haven't really been into him since he split from the house of truth, but i dont think its fair to call him terrible. better than jay briscoe at least.


----------



## Concrete

1.I like to believe a good portion of this board speaks in hyperbole/their own version of the word's meaning. Hence why I've read pages upon pages of people equating certain terms to star ratings. 

2.Elgin is a guy I find fine in that sub-15 minute range(maybe even a little lower if he's going against someone who is SUPA INDIE styled)where he doesn't try bust out the arsenal. In that frame he could do a few power moves, look bad ass, and not look like a dude doing DA MOVEZ! Pretty sure I've said it before but it feels topical so screw it. 

3.I really can't think of any wrestlers I'd want to see versus the NJPW guys except maybe Hero and RD Evans, but only against Cpt NJPW.


----------



## Chismo

Iizuka squashing Hero and winning by DQ, please.


----------



## Obfuscation

RD Evans vs Captain New Japan :lmao

AWESOME


----------



## Japanese Puroresu

I think terrible is ridiculously overplayed. Elgin has problems developing a match on his own, but he's a good wrestler. Richards can't sell a fucking strike to save his life. If he got hit by a semi he'd try to act like nothing hit him. With that said, they both have their strengths and weaknesses but neither are terrible.


----------



## Obfuscation

Not really. It's just a matter of opinion. Someone thinks "this guy" is terrible and then somewhere another guy doesn't. All there is too it. People disagree; that's life & that's a certain nature of pro wrestling. Completely subjective material. :draper2


----------



## Concrete

Like you being a complete dweeb towards VORDELL FRIGGIN' WALKER! Different opinions.


----------



## Obfuscation

Exactly.

Screw that guy. :hayley3


----------



## RKing85

Elgin changing his haircut to something half decent would automatically add at least half a star to every single one of his matches.


----------



## Canadian

RKing85 said:


> Elgin changing his haircut to something half decent would automatically add at least half a star to every single one of his matches.


What? You don't like his homage to Chris Benoit circa WCW? :cool2

Both guys gave Canadian barbers a bad name.


----------



## Toonami4Life

I hear AJ has been in talks with New Japan as well and they expect a deal to be made and he is expected to start working for them as soon as April.


----------



## FITZ

I don't think the NYC show could be any closer to selling out without actually selling out. I put in 20 tickets to buy and I was told that it was out of stock. Then I put in 2 and I was able to buy those. 

I know the NYC crowd in ROH hasn't been getting the best reputation recently but I'm hoping that there will be a different type of crowd there. I'll be there for the first time in a couple of years and I think there will be a lot of other people in the same boat as me.


----------



## Memphis Fan

I would like to see Tama Tonga In NYC. I wish he would bring his dad . They could work as a tag team . Big Meng/ Haku fan. I would like to hear the Briscoe's tell Hahu to man up .Priceless.


----------



## Concrete

Meng in ROH...BOOK IT!!!


----------



## Obfuscation

MENG?

Ok, now we've reached the peak of wrestling here guys. Can't get me excited like this.


----------



## RKing85

toronto ticket arrived in the mail today. Sweet!


----------



## Canadian

RKing85 said:


> toronto ticket arrived in the mail today. Sweet!


Same here. Row 5 for me and my 5 buddies. Can't wait for this.


----------



## BornBad

Wrestling fans around the world were shocked by the announcement that Ring of Honor and New Japan Pro Wrestling will be running two joint shows in May of this year. The first will be “Global Wars” and will take place Saturday May 10th at the Ted Reeve Arena in Toronto, Canada. The second will be “War of the Worlds” on Saturday May 17th at the Hammerstein Ballroom in New York City. New Japan’s top wrestlers will be making the trip overseas for these massive events. Over the next few weeks rohwrestling.com will be announcing the names of the New Japan stars that will be competing at these events, with the first one being

The Current IWGP Heavyweight Champion, “Rainmaker” Kazuchika Okada!

Okada is a two time IWGP Heavyweight Champion for New Japan, and will bring the title with him to Ring of Honor for his debut with the company. Okada has already made a name for himself inside North America, but has yet to compete inside an ROH ring.

His accolades in New Japan speak for themselves. Aside from being a two time champion, Okada is also a former winner of the G1 Climax Tournament, and the New Japan Cup. The most impressive of his New Japan successes is his current reign as champion where he has already surpassed 330 days with the title.

Okada’s brash personality as “Rainmaker” is sure to clash with the talent on the ROH roster, as it does with the talent on the New Japan roster. His arsenal of moves that includes a devastating lariat and a submission named “Red Ink” makes him a tough opponent for anyone on the ROH roster. Stay tuned to rohwrestling.com for announcements on who the New Japan talent will be competing against.

You only have two opportunities to see the IWGP Heavyweight Champion live and in person in North America. Tickets have sold quickly, but seats are still available for “Global Wars” and “War of the Worlds” on May 10th and 17th in Toronto and New York City. Don’t miss these epic once in a lifetime events.


:banderas


----------



## Even Flow

Tanahashi has been confirmed



> Wrestling fans around the world were shocked by the announcement that Ring of Honor and New Japan Pro Wrestling will be running two joint shows in May of this year. The first will be “Global Wars” and will take place Saturday May 10th at the Ted Reeve Arena in Toronto, Canada. The second will be “War of the Worlds” on Saturday May 17th at the Hammerstein Ballroom in New York City. New Japan’s top wrestlers will be making the trip overseas for these massive events. Over the next few weeks rohwrestling.com will be announcing the names of the New Japan stars that will be competing at these events, with the next one being
> 
> *Hiroshi Tanahashi*
> 
> The six time IWGP Heavyweight Champion is finally coming to Ring of Honor. For years Tanahashi has been hyped as one of the absolute best wrestlers on the planet. This May, Tanahashi will be able to put that claim to the test as he faces the ROH roster; the top wrestlers in North America with legit claim to being the best on the planet.
> 
> Tanahashi is the current reigning and defending IWGP Intercontinental Champion, and has also held the IWGP Tag Team Championships on two occasions. His six reigns as IWGP Heavyweight Champion ties him for the most all time in the illustrious history of the organization.
> 
> Regardless of who Tanahashi steps into the ring with, he’s sure to bring elite match quality to these shows. Rohwrestling.com polled fans on who their ROH/New Japan dream matches would be, and Tanahashi’s name came up more than any other wrestler. Fans seem to want to see him face off against everyone on the ROH roster as multiple names came up on who he should compete against.
> 
> You only have two opportunities to see the IWGP Heavyweight Champion live and in person in North America. Tickets are selling quickly, but seats are still available for “Global Wars” on Saturday May 10th. “War of the Worlds” on May 17th in New York City has SOLD OUT!. Don’t miss these epic once in a lifetime events.


----------



## RKing85

I've just been assuming that everyone that was shown in that hype video will be coming over.


----------



## Canadian

Okada, Styles, and now Tanahashi. Things are looking mighty good right now 

Apparently New York is sold out at the Hammerstein. In contrast, I love the fact that the Toronto show is at a local arena I used to play peewee hockey in.

Also, is anyone else going to the Toronto show? Me and the boys are gonna grab some pre-drinks on the Danforth for some food and drink beforehand. If you don't know the Danforth, it is one of the best food streets in Canada and it is very cheap as well.


----------



## Mattyb2266

I'm still legit shocked that the manhattan show sold out this far in advance. I figured it'd sell out at the door, but not this soon.


----------



## USAUSA1

Davey Richards leaves and things get better for ROH. Yes, I am making that case.


----------



## Concrete

USAUSA1 said:


> Davey Richards leaves and things get better for ROH. Yes, I am making that case.


Rather terrible argument in THIS situation but go for it.


----------



## USAUSA1

Concrete said:


> Rather terrible argument in THIS situation but go for it.


I know lol


----------



## Klee

Anymore updates on this? Confirmations etc?

Also, should I be liking elgin at the moment? This, I'm confused about. Fuck it, i'll ask Seabs.


----------



## Kaze Ni Nare

I really wanted to go to the New York show, would of had to road trip from Florida ... I mean to see Okada, Tanahashi, Nakamura in the states would of been awesome. I'm still holding out that at least Okada/Nakamura will be in the states again one day so hopefully then I'll be able to do it.

I would of went in debt to see Suzuki though, I swear to God if it was confirmed when the tickets first went on sale that he was gonna be there I would of charged the whole damn thing & been in the front row singing KAZE NI NARE! as my brain cells had multiple orgasms.


----------



## KingCrash

Klee said:


> Anymore updates on this? Confirmations etc?
> 
> Also, should I be liking elgin at the moment? This, I'm confused about. Fuck it, i'll ask Seabs.


It's now confirmed that Okada, Tanahashi & Nakamura will be at both shows. I'd assume The Young Bucks will be involved too with the title switch and O'Reilly or Fish not being able to go into Canada and then probably the rematch since The Bucks aren't booked for the New Orleans shows.


----------



## Snapdragon

KingCrash said:


> It's now confirmed that Okada, Tanahashi & Nakamura will be at both shows. I'd assume The Young Bucks will be involved too with the title switch and O'Reilly or Fish not being able to go into Canada and then probably the rematch since The Bucks aren't booked for the New Orleans shows.


Meltzer said that

Tanahashi
Okada
Nakamura
Liger
Gedo and Jado
Kushida (possibly Shelley)
The Bucks
Karl Anderson
Forever Hooligans

Will all be on both shows. I assume the Japanese talent will be on both shows while American talent will be split between Canada and NY


----------



## Memphis Fan

I think Bobby Fish cannot enter Canada , Kyle is a native so they cannot keep him out.


----------



## Toonami4Life

In a matter of days, they've gotten more tickets sold than TNA had for Lockdown in Months.


----------



## iamloco724

I have 2 GA lower balcony for this, i know its unlikely but looking for someone to trade tickets with plus i will pay above face value on top of giving my tickets looking for the first 4 rows ringside


----------



## Ham and Egger

Got my GA lower balcony tix today. I wanna hibernate until May!


----------



## Last Chancery

NYC and Toronto cats, take any tickets you can get. I am seriously, and criminally, jealous of you all. I would sit in the last seat of the last row just to see Rainmaker.


----------



## Toonami4Life

Gedo and Jado have been confirmed for the shows. New Japan's going all out for this event. Sending in not just The World Champ and Tanahashi but their heavy hitters as well. They could've just sent in someone like Captain New Japan but it's showing how much of an Impact they want to make in the States and gather Fan Interest. And with the way tickets are selling their doing a good job.


----------



## GothicBohemian

Last Chancery said:


> NYC and Toronto cats, take any tickets you can get. I am seriously, and criminally, jealous of you all. I would sit in the last seat of the last row just to see Rainmaker.


Seriously. I wasn't thrilled at first yet wanted to go once I saw the names involved but I just can’t justify the travel cost atm.


----------



## Memphis Fan

Kevin Steen to get his ROH title shoton May 10 , will take on the winner of Adam Cole vs. Jay Briscoe. That is your main event , should be great.


----------



## SKT T1 Blank

I am going, woo


----------



## Concrete

Toonami4Life said:


> Gedo and Jado have been confirmed for the shows. New Japan's going all out for this event. Sending in not just The World Champ and Tanahashi but their heavy hitters as well. *They could've just sent in someone like Captain New Japan* but it's showing how much of an Impact they want to make in the States and gather Fan Interest. And with the way tickets are selling their doing a good job.


Yeah I'm going to say no on that one. Tanahashi and Okada are two of really three "heavy hitters" they got with the 3rd being Nak. Though I'm all for a Captain New Japan appearance for an appearance of boss proportions.


----------



## Toonami4Life

Concrete said:


> Yeah I'm going to say no on that one. Tanahashi and Okada are two of really three "heavy hitters" they got with the 3rd being Nak. Though I'm all for a Captain New Japan appearance for an appearance of boss proportions.


Their sending in Liger who's a legend, as well as Karl Anderson who's the top Gaijin in New Japan behind Devitt. As well as KUSHIDA and possibly Shelley with him to face The Young Bucks who are The IWGP Jr tag champs. Add that to Tanahashi, Okada, Nakamura, and now Gedo and Jado and they are looking to hit a grand slam with this.


----------



## RKing85

According to Meltzer, New Japan wants to do all New Japan vs ROH matches.

I'm hoping for a mix, some New Japan vs New Japan and some New Japan vs ROH.


----------



## rohisawesome34

Hey guys now I need help for my friend he wants to go to the War of the worlds show may 17th in New York City but he doesn't wanna buy tickets online he wants to wait until the day of the show to buy tickets from someone selling them on the street do you think he'll be able to get tickets from someone an hour before the show? I tried to convince him to buy tickets online but he's rather use cash I also told him this isn't wwe where people are scalping tickets outside the arenas. Their rarely are roh scalpers Let me know so I can tell him thanks!


----------



## Canadian

RKing85 said:


> According to Meltzer, New Japan wants to do all New Japan vs ROH matches.
> 
> I'm hoping for a mix, some New Japan vs New Japan and some New Japan vs ROH.


I'm fascinated by how long I've been a wrestling fan yet never watched ROH until last year. I never watched NJPW until late last year. Now after buying tickets to the Toronto show I'm more fascinated by how much work time I've wasted watching matches of all these guys coming over.

As much as I'd like to see ROH v NJPW matches across the board it's only logical that the chemistry between guys who wrestle each other on a regular basis would more than likely put on some better matches. When I saw Taiji Ishimori v Eddie Edwards here last April I was like "Wtf have I been missing all these years?"

The way you guys are talking about these New Japan guys is getting me pretty excited for this.


----------



## Obfuscation

USAUSA1 said:


> Davey Richards leaves and things get better for ROH. Yes, I am making that case.


I agree. :troll

but all jokes aside, having the New Japan guys for these shows have seriously given a mega pulse back to ROH. It may only be for this specific weekend, but hell, it's nice to see again. And a great chance for fans in North America to see all the big time stars from New Japan. Per everyone else who is in the same boat, wished I had the chance to attend myself. Would kill to see 'em all, tbhayley.


----------



## Joshi Judas

Yeah I don't care if the opponents aren't the best or the matches aren't up to expectations. Just a chance to see Tana, Okada and Nakamura live is worth it.


----------



## Chismo

So jealous of you pricks.


----------



## GothicBohemian

RKing85 said:


> According to Meltzer, New Japan wants to do all New Japan vs ROH matches.
> 
> I'm hoping for a mix, some New Japan vs New Japan and some New Japan vs ROH.


I’m all for NJPW vs ROH. I can watch them have matches with the guys from their separate companies several times a year but this is an opportunity to see a few fresh pairings. 

And yes, still super jelly of all you folks with tickets.


----------



## FITZ

rohisawesome34 said:


> Hey guys now I need help for my friend he wants to go to the War of the worlds show may 17th in New York City but he doesn't wanna buy tickets online he wants to wait until the day of the show to buy tickets from someone selling them on the street do you think he'll be able to get tickets from someone an hour before the show? I tried to convince him to buy tickets online but he's rather use cash I also told him this isn't wwe where people are scalping tickets outside the arenas. Their rarely are roh scalpers Let me know so I can tell him thanks!


Your friend acting irrational has made it highly unlikely that he will get a ticket.


----------



## Last Chancery

Fuck this, I am going to Toronto. Getting my passport today. Sacrifices are being made.


----------



## Toonami4Life

rohisawesome34 said:


> Hey guys now I need help for my friend he wants to go to the War of the worlds show may 17th in New York City but he doesn't wanna buy tickets online he wants to wait until the day of the show to buy tickets from someone selling them on the street do you think he'll be able to get tickets from someone an hour before the show? I tried to convince him to buy tickets online but he's rather use cash I also told him this isn't wwe where people are scalping tickets outside the arenas. Their rarely are roh scalpers Let me know so I can tell him thanks!


Better tell him to wake up and smell the coffee before the tickets are all gone. Better get them quick before it's too late. If he doesn't you can just send him pics of the event showing what he missed.


----------



## Canadian

Last Chancery said:


> Fuck this, I am going to Toronto. Getting my passport today. Sacrifices are being made.


Well free to hang out with me and my boys before the show and have a few cold ones. That also goes out to anyone else coming up to TO for the show.


----------



## Even Flow

rohisawesome34 said:


> Hey guys now I need help for my friend he wants to go to the War of the worlds show may 17th in New York City but he doesn't wanna buy tickets online he wants to wait until the day of the show to buy tickets from someone selling them on the street do you think he'll be able to get tickets from someone an hour before the show? I tried to convince him to buy tickets online but he's rather use cash I also told him this isn't wwe where people are scalping tickets outside the arenas. Their rarely are roh scalpers Let me know so I can tell him thanks!


NYC tickets are sold out I believe. So your friend is out of luck there.


----------



## Last Chancery

Canadian said:


> Well free to hang out with me and my boys before the show and have a few cold ones. That also goes out to anyone else coming up to TO for the show.


Haha, nice user name! Little on the nose, eh?

Some brews before the show sounds awesome. I'm officially going, having purchased my ticket (GA). To a far greater extent, I still need to book a cheapo flight and hotel and rental car.

I'm sinking myself further into credit card debt with this one. Hopefully they have a meet and greet with these guys, but fuck, I don't even know how to do Canada. I apologize in advance, I even had trouble trying to obtain my passport today. Filling the thing out confused me, I went through two copies! And then the post office told me my birth certificate was not the real one, so I have to give it another go Monday. But I'm determined to make this show.:faint:


----------



## Canadian

Last Chancery said:


> Haha, nice user name! Little on the nose, eh?
> 
> Some brews before the show sounds awesome. I'm officially going, having purchased my ticket (GA). To a far greater extent, I still need to book a cheapo flight and hotel and rental car.
> 
> I'm sinking myself further into credit card debt with this one. Hopefully they have a meet and greet with these guys, but fuck, I don't even know how to do Canada. I apologize in advance, I even had trouble trying to obtain my passport today. Filling the thing out confused me, I went through two copies! And then the post office told me my birth certificate was not the real one, so I have to give it another go Monday. But I'm determined to make this show.:faint:


If you never have done Canada then definitely come hang with us. We'll get you proper smashed and show you around if you want. We're good people like that. Showing visitors is one of Canada's favourite past times. Every single area of Toronto is safe to walk around at any time believe me I used to live in one of the roughest spots in the city and it's nothing like down south lol.

Most of us are around the 29-34 age and we're all massive into soccer as well so we like a vibrant atmosphere and we definitely love to drink (without acting like clowns) and get our wrestling fix. I'll ask one of the guys if they have a couch or guest room that night for you to crash on for free so you can save a little bit of coin. But if you're into hookers and blow (just kidding) there are motels for around 40-60 not too far from the venue. Depending where you are coming from I'd recommend flying either into Toronto City Airport (coming from Boston, CHicago, NYC, DC or Myrtle Beach) and you'll be 15 mins from the venue by public transit. They have a 40% off sale until Sunday if that is anywhere near where you're from.

If out of those cities Buffalo will be a cost efficient option then take a $15 Megabus ride into Toronto. Flying into Pearson International is a bit out of the way and it is expensive for airport fees (I think 4th in the world).

The passport process in the States is a pain. Here its a breeze. Got mine in under a week last month. If it wasn't for the Taliban we'd all still be able to use our driver's licenses to cross the border. In regards to your ticket, GA in Ted Reeve is a great anywhere. I sat there for Border Wars last year (my first taste of ROH to be honest) and I had an awesome time. It's literally a neighbourhood hockey arena so nice and small but with solid sound. We'll be in row 5 and hope it's decent from there.


----------



## Genking48

I guess one more name can be signed onto this!


----------



## Even Flow

Still mark for Liger's theme.


----------



## Genking48

How can't one mark for that theme?

It's just....it's just so fucking Liger, I mark everytime it starts


----------



## mcbo84

Any chance tickets for the nyc show hit the secondary market (ebay, stubhub, etc)?


----------



## FITZ

mcbo84 said:


> Any chance tickets for the nyc show hit the secondary market (ebay, stubhub, etc)?


Maybe. I know when ROH still had forums there was a ticket sales thread (actually sold some tickets there) and when they were in Atlanta for Mania you could get some tickets on ebay. I wouldn't bet on very many of them though and if you do find one on auction you might have to pay a lot to win it. And I'm not even sure if any will pop up, these tickets sold better than any ROH show post Bryan Danielson.


----------



## Last Chancery

http://www.rohwrestling.com/product/051014-border-wars-toronto

Front row, second row, third row, EVERYTHING IS AVAILABLE for Toronto. I grabbed me two front row seats before they sold out.

ENJOY~!


----------



## Violent By Design

There are always ROH tickets for cheap on Stub Hub, even for big events. I don't see tickets go over 20 dollars at Hammerstein too often, and those cards are generally their biggest of the year.



So I'm a bit confused. The New Japan guys are wrestling more than one show? They're gonna do one in Torotno and NYC? I only skimmed through the thread, but I admit I am very interested in seeing the New Japan guys live.


----------



## mcbo84

Violent By Design said:


> There are always ROH tickets for cheap on Stub Hub, even for big events. I don't see tickets go over 20 dollars at Hammerstein too often, and those cards are generally their biggest of the year.
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm a bit confused. The New Japan guys are wrestling more than one show? They're gonna do one in Torotno and NYC? I only skimmed through the thread, but I admit I am very interested in seeing the New Japan guys live.


Yep, one in Toronto and one in nyc. Back to back in the month of may. Tickets sold out for nyc not sure about toronto. Im hoping something will pop up im just trying to get in the building in nyc.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7

Elgin v Steen and the winner gets to face Okada for the IWGP World Championship.

http://www.rohwrestling.com/news/who-will-challenge-iwgp-world-champion-nyc


----------



## Saber Rider ^-^

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> Elgin v Steen and the winner gets to face Okada for the IWGP World Championship.
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/news/who-will-challenge-iwgp-world-champion-nyc


:mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark: @ Steen vs Okada


----------



## Chismo

Steen, please.


----------



## EscapedIllusion

Elgin!...Steen! Who cares it's gonna be awesome either ways!!


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## RKing85

latest report on Observer says the current plan is now for a mix of New Japan vs New Japan and New Japan vs ROH. Good. That's what I've wanted.


----------



## Last Chancery

Hopefully they leave the suckier guys in ROH to fight among themselves. Michael Bennett needs to stay away from the Japanese guys. Not a fan of his.

For whatever reason, I have a suspicion they're going to run a double main event in Toronto of Tanahashi/Okada and Steen/Cole for the title. That would satisfy the NJPW vs. NJPW requisite. Tons they can do with these shows.


----------



## Violent By Design

When ever I think of ROH guys, I still think of guys who aren't there anymore..Generico, Claudio etc... 

I don't have much interest in seeing current ROH guys fight NJPW. I'd watch solely just to see NJPW guys, so it's good that they have NJPW vs NJPW.


----------



## Toonami4Life

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> Elgin v Steen and the winner gets to face Okada for the IWGP World Championship.
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/news/who-will-challenge-iwgp-world-champion-nyc


Well that's worth the price of admission right there.

Also I just found out that Karl Anderson and The Forever Hooligans have been confirmed for the show as well.


----------



## FITZ

I really hope it's Steen that gets the match with Okada. Also I really want to see a match with a heel Cole against a New Japan guy that just beats the shit out of him.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## SuperSaucySausages

I read a while ago that NJPW are trying to get a work VISA for Prince Devitt as he wants to be involved but won't go over without the VISA as he will not risk being blackballed from working in the US. Which makes sense given he's supposedly been talking to WWE recently.

Is that old news? Any updates?


----------



## RKing85

going to be way more New Japan talent than I was expecting!!!! Loving it! I figured it would be like a half dozen or so. Can now easily do 3 New Japan vs New Japan as well as a couple New Japan vs ROH.

This show is going to be worth every penny I am spending on flights, tickets, and hotel!

Now the big challenge is going to be keeping myself under control at the merchandise table


----------



## Last Chancery

ROH just confirmed a meet and greet with the NJPW talent via Twitter. Probably going to cost $100-250 for the full meet and greet, honestly. But for any fan outside Japan, meeting these guys really is once in a lifetime. Hell, even seeing them wrestle is once in a lifetime.


----------



## NWAGreats

I'm much more excited for this than wrestlemania, i'm definitely going.


----------



## Chismo

I haven't been excited for WrestleMania since 2004, tbf.


----------



## Last Chancery

NWAGreats said:


> I'm much more excited for this than wrestlemania, i'm definitely going.


I'm going to both. Little more excited about ROH, but I won't bury 'Mania and the opportunity to see Bryan in the main event of the biggest show ever.


----------



## SuperSaucySausages

Is it available on iPPV? Might buy it just to watch the matches. Except it'll be early hours of the morning for me. Will I be able to download it "elsewhere" at any point?


----------



## NWAGreats

I didn't mean to bury the significance of the event that is mania or danielson finally becoming a legit star but i've been wanting to see tanahashi and nakamura and devitt live for years now, i've seen wwe live plenty of times.


----------



## captainzombie

SuperSaucySausages said:


> Is it available on iPPV? Might buy it just to watch the matches. Except it'll be early hours of the morning for me. Will I be able to download it "elsewhere" at any point?


I wonder the same thing if it will be on iPPV.


----------



## FITZ

I think ROH said On Demand so you should be able to watch it the next day. 

I'm really excited for this but way more excited for Wrestlemania weekend and I'll be there as well. Not sure if this is really a "Once in a Life Time" chance. I mean I've seen quite a few of the New Japan guys already when they did the US Tour with JAPW. I am much more excited knowing Tanahashi will most likely wrestle someone better than Charlie Haas.


----------



## Pharmakon

TaylorFitz said:


> I think ROH said On Demand so you should be able to watch it the next day.
> 
> I'm really excited for this but way more excited for Wrestlemania weekend and I'll be there as well. Not sure if this is really a "Once in a Life Time" chance. I mean I've seen quite a few of the New Japan guys already when they did the US Tour with JAPW. I am much more excited knowing Tanahashi will most likely wrestle someone better than Charlie Haas.


Indeed it is, makes me want to watch ROH and NJPW


----------



## ecw718

Well he did wrestle Davey Richards during that tour also.


----------



## FenceMan

Why doesn't ROH use Ustream? Hoping beyond hope that it's love via NJPW Ustream PPV....


----------



## Last Chancery

http://www.rohwrestling.com/product/051014-border-wars-toronto

Four more front row tickets on sale right now, they won't be there for too long. ROH also just added a bunch of "corner" seats. Looks like they're jamming the hell out of the venue for this show.


----------



## Kaze Ni Nare

I can't wait to watch this, I'm gonna regret not splurging on tickets & a road trip to New York, but I'll hold out hope that they'll do this again in the next couple years and I'll be able to afford it more.


----------



## Violent By Design

Anyone know the details of driving from US to Canada? Might have to go to the Toronto show in case the NY one doesn't open up on stubhub.

I figure I just flick my passport and I'm good to go? Do they give me something to sign at the borders saying Im only going to visit for a day?


----------



## Dimas75

Violent By Design said:


> Anyone know the details of driving from US to Canada? Might have to go to the Toronto show in case the NY one doesn't open up on stubhub.
> 
> I figure I just flick my passport and I'm good to go? Do they give me something to sign at the borders saying Im only going to visit for a day?


You just need a valid passport and answer a few basic questions (purpose of your visit, your hometown, how long you will be staying etc). Usually it only takes a few seconds, unless you behave suspicious, then they ask you to follow you for a more extensive interview. But thats very rare if you are a US citizen and dont have a criminal record. Just act friendly, give short answers and dont behave suspicious


----------



## Ganso Bomb

Kaze Ni Nare said:


> I can't wait to watch this, I'm gonna regret not splurging on tickets & a road trip to New York, but I'll hold out hope that they'll do this again in the next couple years and I'll be able to afford it more.


I think they probably will. We know North American expansion is a long term goal for New Japan.


----------



## USAUSA1

So they trying IPPV again with Ustream. I trust Court Bauer and company.


----------



## Violent By Design

Ganso Bomb said:


> We know North American expansion is a long term goal for New Japan.


We do?


----------



## captainzombie

USAUSA1 said:


> So they trying IPPV again with Ustream. I trust Court Bauer and company.


Was uStream very bad? I was considering watching one of these shows for sure.


----------



## Last Chancery

Not sure about Ustream's quality, but it was GFL they kept trying and having issues with.


----------



## Toonami4Life

Well hope they don't have any problems with it, the last thing they need is for the feed to go out midway through the show like it did during Briscoe/Steen.


----------



## Chismo

Every NJPW show I've ordered on Ustream was impeccable.


----------



## Snapdragon

Chismo said:


> Every NJPW show I've ordered on Ustream was impeccable.


But how many people are ordering those shows? They tend to air at 3-6am in the States and cost more than regular shows. Does Ustream have the capacity to handle a big insurge at the same time during a prime hour?


----------



## Chismo

Have you ever visited UStream? They stream many popular shit, they can handle 1-2,000 wrestling fans.


----------



## Srdjan99

Chismo said:


> Every NJPW show I've ordered on Ustream was impeccable.


This is exactly what I've wanted to point out. Ustream streams NJPW PPV's perfectly, don't see why they would have some problems with this inter-promotional show.


----------



## FenceMan

Ustream works flawless with NJPW.


----------



## FenceMan

Snapdragon said:


> But how many people are ordering those shows? They tend to air at 3-6am in the States and cost more than regular shows. Does Ustream have the capacity to handle a big insurge at the same time during a prime hour?


Ustream is in Japan also, they have done close to 100,000 buys before, NJPW has way more than a couple thousand people watching their ippv...


----------



## Chismo

Ustream is not in Japan, lel, niconico is NJPW's iPPV provider over there. Pls stop.


----------



## FenceMan

Chismo said:


> Ustream is not in Japan, lel, niconico is NJPW's iPPV provider over there. Pls stop.


http://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2010/07/21/digital/ustream-goes-mainstream/#.UzS8-US9KK0


----------



## Chismo

FenceMan said:


> http://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2010/07/21/digital/ustream-goes-mainstream/#.UzS8-US9KK0


Ooops, my bad, legit had no idea Ustream had it's Japanese domain, let alone they'd provide iPPVs there. So, that's TWO home providers just for online pay-per-views.


----------



## almostfamous

So these shows will definitely get my $ for the streaming PPVs. Great move for ROH. I'm pumped!


----------



## Canadian

I'll pull out my smartphone and stream about 10 seconds of the Toronto show for you guys 

I only joined this forum a couple of months back to learn more about the WM weekend I'm about to enjoy in NOLA but I have to say I'm so pleased to have discovered these indy pages, particularly for NJPW. It's like discovering a new band that's been around forever and you go "What the fcuk was I missing out on this whole time?"

Thank y'all.


----------



## FenceMan

Chismo said:


> Ooops, my bad, legit had no idea Ustream had it's Japanese domain, let alone they'd provide iPPVs there. So, that's TWO home providers just for online pay-per-views.


Honestly I dont know for sure. I know the NJPW Ustream page has one that is in Japanese and one in English so I was assuming that they are able to order from Japan. I have read articles that say they get 50,000 - 100,000 Ippv buys so I was also assuming that was all Ustream....


----------



## Ham and Egger

Depending on the Toronto and NYC card I might skip out on the Toronto card just to go to the NYC card with fresh eyes.


----------



## Dimas75

Chismo said:


> Ooops, my bad, legit had no idea Ustream had it's Japanese domain, let alone they'd provide iPPVs there. So, that's TWO home providers just for online pay-per-views.





FenceMan said:


> Honestly I dont know for sure. I know the NJPW Ustream page has one that is in Japanese and one in English so I was assuming that they are able to order from Japan. I have read articles that say they get 50,000 - 100,000 Ippv buys so I was also assuming that was all Ustream....


Chismo's first post was correct, Ustream isnt for Japan. Their main streaming provider is Nico Nico (Japans #1 streaming service AND basicly the Japanese Youtube).

From what i see on NJPW's japanese website they have 2 kind of streaming deals. Their big shows air on Nico Nico in Japan and on Ustream everywhere else (they specificly mention "except Japan"). In addition they also started streaming their minor shows (basicly houseshows), and those are exclusive to Nico Nico.

Edit: Ustream does have a Japanese version, a lot of sports or Jpop groups use it (those who have a fanbase outside of Japan), but NJPW only uses it for their international audience.


----------



## Flashyelbow

I can't wait it seems cool.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Peter Carroll

This will be the first time that Styles works ROH in TOR and Manhattan, right?


----------



## FITZ

I'm not sure if it will be the first time ever but certainly the first time in a very long time (unless he was in NYC last time ROH had a show there but I don't think he did).


----------



## Memphis Fan

Peter Carroll said:


> This will be the first time that Styles works ROH in TOR and Manhattan, right?


AJ worked in Queens . He was on the Second Anniversary Show. I don't know if he has worked in Manhattan for ROH .


----------



## Peter Carroll

Memphis Fan said:


> AJ worked in Queens . He was on the Second Anniversary Show. I don't know if he has worked in Manhattan for ROH .


First Anniversary, and man that threeway was a killer spotfest.

NYC metro area yes, but not Manhattan.


----------



## Canadian

The night before the Toronto show Jim Ross is coming to town to do one of his "An Evening With" shows. Tix are $34-$62 and it's at the Danforth Music Hall. I could possibly envision the $34 if it allows for a photo and autograph but $60 plus?


----------



## Ganso Bomb

Violent By Design said:


> We do?


Sorry, thought it was common knowledge. But yeah, if reports are true then New Japan is pretty serious about wanting to expand internationally.

They're supposedly also working towards having two split crews touring simultaneously like WWE.


----------



## Toonami4Life

Ganso Bomb said:


> Sorry, thought it was common knowledge. But yeah, if reports are true then New Japan is pretty serious about wanting to expand internationally.
> 
> They're supposedly also working towards having two split crews touring simultaneously like WWE.


That's what they want to do, they don't just wanna be the Top Promotion in Asia, they wanna become Global and known worldwide. If they hit a home run with these events and the show with BCW we're gonna see a lot more shows in North America and in other places.


----------



## jarrelka

Toonami4Life said:


> That's what they want to do, they don't just wanna be the Top Promotion in Asia, they wanna become Global and known worldwide. If they hit a home run with these events and the show with BCW we're gonna see a lot more shows in North America and in other places.



I truly hope they succeed. New Japan is by far the best wrestling promotion in the world and have been for a long freaking time. Nobodys ever touching wwe unless hell freezes over but atleast they can reach wcw level if things work out well.


----------



## jarrelka

Canadian said:


> I'll pull out my smartphone and stream about 10 seconds of the Toronto show for you guys
> 
> I only joined this forum a couple of months back to learn more about the WM weekend I'm about to enjoy in NOLA but I have to say I'm so pleased to have discovered these indy pages, particularly for NJPW. It's like discovering a new band that's been around forever and you go "What the fcuk was I missing out on this whole time?"
> 
> Thank y'all.



Yeah I know what you mean. Back in 2011 when I joined wwe was all I knew about but this place has tought me so much about wrestling and since I eventually want to be a wrestler myself it feels good the only thing you need to do to be one is hit wrestlingschool and you got yourself an indygig. So much good wrestling on this planet.


----------



## RKing85

ROH said the card would be announced after Mania weekend.

I'm waiting patiently......well somewhat patiently.


----------



## Toonami4Life

jarrelka said:


> Yeah I know what you mean. Back in 2011 when I joined wwe was all I knew about but this place has tought me so much about wrestling and since I eventually want to be a wrestler myself it feels good the only thing you need to do to be one is hit wrestlingschool and you got yourself an indygig. So much good wrestling on this planet.


Get a degree and at least some training for something else. This may sound harsh but for every 100 who look to become a wrestler, Only a handful sticks with it for more than a year, and put that handful into another 100 and only another handful will still be doing it in three plus years. If your among them you'll mostly be doing indy dates and low level indy feds unless your a Prodigy and the pay's not really gonna be a whole lot and Promoters can stiff you. That handful will go into another hundred and another handful will emerge from a chance to work a medium promotion like PWG. Those handful go into another hundred and from that group a handful will get the chance to work for a while on a stage like WWE. We may snicker about guys who lasted a cup of coffee like DJ Gabriel but the fact they even made it there shows they had something that made them look at them even for a minute.


----------



## seabs

*AJ is facing Okada before these shows right? Don't be shocked if AJ wins and the Title match is AJ vs Elgin for the IWGP Title on a ROH Show. Which would be... something. *


----------



## Srdjan99

What's the whole point of a NJPW/ROH show, if AJ faces Elgin? No, I want Okada vs Elgin for the IWGP World Title


----------



## seabs

*Because New Japan will do what they want on their own shows and quite honestly they don't give a shit what that means for ROH. Why would they? Okada is still coming over win or lose. Jado & Gedo aren't gonna change their plans just for ROH and one match their core audience will probably never see. Plus I doubt most ROH fans will care if they get a New Japan All Stars Tag or Okada/Elgin. *


----------



## KingCrash

But they're already doing Elgin vs. AJ again for a shot at Cole next Sat. so if AJ won the IWGP title it'd just be Elgin/Okada with nothing on the line since they stressed facing Okada more and barely mentioned the title.


----------



## FITZ

Is there really that good of chance that Aj wins the title? I knew he was doing pretty well over there but I didn't realize he was doing that well.


----------



## seabs

*He hasn't actually wrestled for them yet but I think there's a good chance he wins. He's the new leader of the big heel faction they're really pushing right now who already have both tag belts. Plus Okada's title run feels like it's nearing it's end. Either outcome is very possible but my point is Okada being the champ when he comes over is no lock. Isn't it Elgin vs the IWGP Champ rather than Elgin vs Okada? So if AJ beat Okada wouldn't it just be Elgin vs AJ for the belt rather than Elgin vs Okada non-title? Never underestimate the regularity of miscommunication when it comes to cross promotion events. *


----------



## RKing85

Meltzer on one of his shows said "AJ is going to win the title from Okada" He caught himself right away. 

I've said all along, I want a mix of New Japan vs New Japan and New Japan vs ROH.


----------



## KingCrash

Well if there's miscommunication then they'd probably still do Elgin/Okada since I figure AJ's winning vs. Elgin for a ROH title shot and they may throw it on the same show, hence the card not being out besides Elgin/Okada and Bucks/reDRagon rematch for the 5/17 show and Steen/Cole for the 5/10 show.


----------



## Violent By Design

Toonami4Life said:


> That's what they want to do, they don't just wanna be the Top Promotion in Asia, they wanna become Global and known worldwide. If they hit a home run with these events and the show with BCW we're gonna see a lot more shows in North America and in other places.


Have they even expanded to Asia properly yet?


----------



## Toonami4Life

Violent By Design said:


> Have they even expanded to Asia properly yet?


Their doing shows in Taiwan this week or next week. They've also done shows in Hong Kong I think.


----------



## RKing85

They have a tour somewhere in Asia the same time they are doing the ROH shows I believe.


----------



## Toonami4Life

It's been confirmed as well that The IWGP Tag Titles will be defended on The Show as well as Bullet Club will defend. I think they are going to announce who Anderson and Gallows will defend the straps against tomorrow.


----------



## Peter Carroll

> ROH & NEW JAPAN PRO WRESTLING PRESENT: GLOBAL WARS
> SATURDAY, MAY 10TH, 2014
> TED REEVE ARENA - TORONTO, ON CANADA
> 
> **MATCHES BROUGHT TO YOU BY NEW JAPAN PRO WRESTLING**
> 
> Hiroshi Tanahashi & Jushin Thunder Liger vs. Shinsuke Nakamura & Jado
> 
> The Bullet Club (“The Phenomenal” AJ Styles & “Machine Gun” Karl Anderson) vs IWGP Heavyweight Champion Kazuchika Okada & Gedo
> Takaaki Watanabe vs. "Unbreakable" Michael Elgin (IWGP Heavyweight Title Contender)
> 
> IWGP JUNIOR HEAVYWEIGHT TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP - 3-WAY TAG TEAM MATCH
> Forever Hooligans (Alex Koslov & Rocky Romero) vs. Time Splitters (KUSHIDA & Alex Shelley) vs. Young Bucks (Nick & Matt Jackson) (c)
> 
> **On 5/3 in Fukuoka, Japan The Young Bucks will defend the IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag Team Championships against Forever Hooligans. The winners of that match will defending their championships in this three way contest.
> 
> **MATCHES BROUGHT TO YOU BY RING OF HONOR WRESTLING**
> 
> ROH WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP
> Adam Cole defends against “Mr Wrestling” Kevin Steen
> 
> ROH TELEVISION CHAMPIONSHIP - 4 CORNER SURVIVAL
> Jay Lethal (c) w/ Truth Martini vs. Tommaso Ciampa vs. Matt Taven vs. “Last Real Man” Silas Young
> 
> Also Signed To Appear
> Mark & Jay Briscoe
> Michael Bennett w/ Maria Kanellis
> reDRagon (Kyle O'Reilly & Bobby Fish)
> The Decade (Roderick Strong, BJ Whitmer & Jimmy Jacobs) w/ Tadarius Thomas
> ACH
> Cedric Alexander


Discuss.


----------



## KicksToFaces!

Eh, it's okay, I guess. Was hoping for Shinskay-Hero match, or any Nakamura match against an American wrestler... Instead, we got this. Which is not bad by any means, but idk, was hoping for something else. 
Machine Gun vs Okada&Gedo sounds good, I'm really looking forward to this one as well as the Junior 3-way match. That should be a great spotfest.
Cole vs Steen is probably going to be good, although I hope they add some kind of stipulation (Fight Without Honor, maybe?), that way it'll be much better, but I doubt they can do better than their PWG Mystery Vortex match.


----------



## Creative name

The Bullet Club (“The Phenomenal” AJ Styles & “Machine Gun” Karl Anderson) vs IWGP Heavyweight Champion Kazuchika Okada & Gedo
Takaaki Watanabe vs. "Unbreakable" Michael Elgin (IWGP Heavyweight Title Contender)

IWGP JUNIOR HEAVYWEIGHT TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP - 3-WAY TAG TEAM MATCH
Forever Hooligans (Alex Koslov & Rocky Romero) vs. Time Splitters (KUSHIDA & Alex Shelley) vs. Young Bucks (Nick & Matt Jackson) (c)

The rest of the card is ehhhh. Guess that's why that show hasn't sold out yet but NYC has been for weeks


----------



## Creative name

Okada vs Tannahasi for the first time outside of Japan would have made that show an instant SOTYC


----------



## EmbassyForever

WTF is this shit? Seriously, looks like some C- NJPW House Show. TERRIBLE!


----------



## The CRA1GER

I was expecting the matches being ROH vs. NJPW. Hopefully the NY show will be just that.


----------



## EscapedIllusion

Thank god I'm not going to that show.For a sold out Toronto show it looks like a typical NJPW house show.I'd be so disappointed if we don't get Elgin vs Okada at this point or at least a good Tanahashi singles match.Sucks that Tanahashi and Nakamura are being wasted in a tag match...SMH


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----------



## Last Chancery

Fuck this company. That's all I am going to say. Fuck 'em.


----------



## Chismo

:ti

This looks like a "Road to..." show.


----------



## MTheBehemoth

An awful, disappointing card.


----------



## Snapdragon

Chismo said:


> :ti
> 
> This looks like a "Road to..." show.


Welcome to Gedo and Jado booking. I'm pretty sure ROH didn't solely book this card.


----------



## Concrete

Snapdragon said:


> Welcome to Gedo and Jado booking. I'm pretty sure ROH didn't solely book this card.


Well "Road to X" is a pretty typical NJPW title for house shows so I'm going to say that it wasn't pointed towards ROH. 

But yeah, NJPW has decided their return to North America will be a house show. Actually their return is the night before. With Nak/Dux that is already more interesting to me than NJPW/ROH. BRAVO TO ALL!


----------



## KingCrash

Snapdragon said:


> Welcome to Gedo and Jado booking. I'm pretty sure ROH didn't solely book this card.


Yeah but that tv title match isn't helping any. Guess the NYC show is going to be where they do the ROH vs NJPW matches. Sucks for Toronto, but at least that three way should be great and Cole/Steen should be good until the run-ins.


----------



## FITZ

I feel like NYC has to be filled with ROH vs. New Japan matches after seeing this card. We know that the main event will be ROH vs. NJPW and I can see the rest of the card following suit. 

I don't see ROH doing this and then having top New Japan guys not being in a high profile singles match. I just feel like you don't book Tanahashi and have him wrestle in 2 random tag matches.


----------



## down_nola

here ya go..



> WAR OF THE WORLDS on Saturday May 17th at the Hammerstein Ballroom in New York City will be an unforgettable night for wrestling fans. This event will see ROH talent face off against New Japan talent in a true war between two worlds. ROH and New Japan officials have decided which competitors from their respective organizations they want to see face off against one another. We are thrilled to announce these rare encounters:
> 
> ROH & NJPW Present: WAR OF THE WORLDS
> Saturday, May 17th, 2014 – 7:30PM
> The Hammerstein Ballroom – New York City
> 
> ROH WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP
> Winner of Adam Cole vs. Kevin Steen from GLOBAL WARS (ROH) vs. Jushin “Thunder” Liger (NJPW)
> 
> IWGP HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP
> "Rainmaker" Kazuchika Okada vs. "Unbreakable" Michael Elgin (ROH)
> **5/3 in Fukuoka, Japan Kazuchika Okada defends the IWGP Heavyweight Championship against AJ Styles. The winner of that match will defend against Michael Elgin on May 17th
> 
> ROH WORLD TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP
> Champions: The Young Bucks (Bullet Club) vs. reDRagon (ROH)
> 
> IWGP WORLD TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP
> Champions: Karl Anderson & Doc Gallows (Bullet Club) vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe (ROH)
> 
> ROH WORLD TV CHAMPIONSHIP
> Champion: Jay Lethal w/ Truth Martini (ROH) vs. KUSHIDA (NJPW)
> 
> Shinsuke Nakamura (NJPW) vs. Kevin Steen or Adam Cole (ROH)
> 
> Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJPW) vs. Michael Bennett w/ Maria Kanellis (ROH)
> 
> Also Signed to Appear
> 
> Gedo & Jado (NJPW)
> The Forever Hooligans (Rocky Romero & Alex Koslov) (NJPW)
> Takaaki Watanabe (NJPW)
> The Decade (Roderick Strong, BJ Whitmer & Jimmy Jacobs) w/ Adam Page (ROH)
> ACH (ROH)
> Matt Taven (ROH)
> Cedric Alexander (ROH)
> Tommaso Ciampa (ROH)
> Silas Young (ROH)
> Caprice Coleman (ROH)
> 
> Ring of Honor Wrestling & New Japan Pro-Wrestling Presents:
> WAR OF THE WORLDS
> Saturday, May 17th, 2014
> The Hammerstein Ballroom
> New York City
> Bell Time – 7:30pm EST


----------



## KingCrash

You have to figure Tanahashi gets a big name like the loser of Cole/Steen while the winner defends the title against maybe Liger or someone that can eat a pin.

EDIT: :lmao......or Michael Bennett. Nakamura/Steen has me interested.


----------



## Peter Carroll

Tanahashi makes quick work of Bennett, only for Strong to come in and lay down an abrupt challenge.


----------



## GothicBohemian

I don’t feel nearly as bad about missing the Toronto show as I did prior to the card announcement. Whoever said “Road to” is bang on.


----------



## Kaze Ni Nare

Underwhelming but I still wish I was there.


----------



## EscapedIllusion

BENNETT vs Tanahashi LMFAO this is a joke right?! This can't be real!


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Creative name

Peter Carroll said:


> Tanahashi makes quick work of Bennett, only for Strong to come in and lay down an abrupt challenge.


Tanahashi vs Strong should be the match that actually happens, Mike Bennett should be no where near this show.


----------



## seabs

*Told y'all not to expect dream match cards from this. This was never a big deal for New Japan, not much different than their tour of Taiwan. They're not making big money outside of Japan so why would they risk injuring their top guys in front of an audience of foreign fans a fraction of the crowd they draw in Japan. Can see Nakamura/Steen being a big mess if that happens too. Tanahashi/Bennett is amusing though. 

So they say Elgin vs the winner of Okada/Styles and then AJ isn't listed for the New York show?*


----------



## lolomanolo

Not a much of an ROH fan, but you really can't blame them for these cards, when you do these inter-promotional shows neither company wants their top guys looking weak. This is safe booking that appeases everyone I guess.


----------



## Obfuscation

Why is anybody surprised? ROH fans were the only ones making this out to be a big deal. Not like it matters. If you're attending it live, it's worth it just to see the Japanese contingent. Even if Tanahashi is worked vs Bennett. Had to get my jab in there on that match.

A New Japan "Road To" show still put it on a scale larger than what ROH would produce alone.


----------



## EscapedIllusion

No more expectations from me.


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----------



## GothicBohemian

Well no, I didn’t expect anything miraculous, but a slightly more impressive card would seem in line if this were an indication of NJPW feeling out the potential response to them visiting more often. I guess I had a bit of (admittedly selfish) hope that they’d come to NA more frequently in the future. 

Were I in Toronto, or New York, and not having to travel I’d absolutely not miss these shows even with the lackluster cards. But living where I do, and the cost and distance involved, I’d need more appealing matches to financially and time-wise justify making the trip.


----------



## bigbuxxx

> IWGP HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP
> "Rainmaker" Kazuchika Okada vs. "Unbreakable" Michael Elgin (ROH)
> **5/3 in Fukuoka, Japan Kazuchika Okada defends the IWGP Heavyweight Championship against AJ Styles. The winner of that match will defend against Michael Elgin on May 17th


Wouldn't it be awesome if Okada lost to AJ and then Okada ended up not being "needed".


----------



## Even Flow

I guess the reason Hero's not on either card is because he'll still be in Japan wrestling for NOAH.

AJ is booked for NYC according to the ROH website, Seabs.


----------



## TEWA

MTheBehemoth said:


> disappointing card.


Part of the course with 2014 New Japan


----------



## FITZ

If AJ wins the title in Japan I could see Okada/Strong happening. I could also see them doing a Decade vs. Jedo and Gado match as some type of battle of the veterans. I guess Forever Hooligans could take one of those spots as well. 

I like most of the Card in all honesty. I'm not thrilled with the Tanahashi match though. This will be my second time seeing him wrestle live and the 2 opponents he will end up wrestler are Charlie Haas and Mike Bennett.


----------



## Ham and Egger

Tanahashi vs Bennett? Really ROH? fpalm


----------



## Snapdragon

Bennett, a guy who has improved leaps and bounds and has been on fire, having fantastic matches for several months still isn't given any credit.

The guy was handpicked by Lance friggin Storm to wrestle him 3 times. It'll be a great match and people will still not give Bennett any credit I'm syre


----------



## EscapedIllusion

Bennett's only had like 3 great matches in his entire ROH career.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Snapdragon

EscapedIllusion said:


> Bennett's only had like 3 great matches in his entire ROH career.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Not true at all, he's been on fire the past few months.


----------



## Japanese Puroresu

I agree with Snapdragon but I'm not as enthusiastic about it. Bennett has been doing extremely well lately.


----------



## FITZ

I haven't seen Bennett wrestle in a while so I hope he really has improved. The match will be fun because it's one of the few matches where you know that the entire crowd is going to be cheering for the same guy.


----------



## Violent By Design

Snapdragon said:


> Bennett, a guy who has improved leaps and bounds and has been on fire, having fantastic matches for several months still isn't given any credit.
> 
> The guy was handpicked by Lance friggin Storm to wrestle him 3 times. It'll be a great match and people will still not give Bennett any credit I'm syre


Is Lance Storm supposed to be royalty or something?


----------



## Vårmakos

oh my god hes going to break tanahashi's neck


----------



## ErickRowan_Fan

Violent By Design said:


> Is Lance Storm supposed to be royalty or something?


Storm's wrestling prowess is well-known and ROH is pretty much all about wrestling. A veteran choosing Bennett as one of his last opponents and now Bennett facing Tanahashi shows that there is a lot of confidence in Bennett's ability to deliver a good match. Let's see if he can live up to the expectations before we judge the booking of the match.


----------



## Obfuscation

There's a good portion who can say they have or never given a lick to care what Lance Storm does. And the way he used it was worth a chuckle in of itself. As if what Lance Storm chooses is meant to make some rasslin fans give a damn or accept it.

I wouldn't say there is so much faith in Bennett as there is just proper continuity by the booking for this match. Bennett is associated w/the World Champion as his running buddy. May as well try and show that he sort of matters by getting the Ace of New Japan. Not like he has a chance to win or will be on proper par w/Tanahashi in importance, but yeah. Not too drastic to see why the match is booked. Much the same w/Elgin going to the IWGP World Championship. Making their side appeal to be on the same level as the New Japan workers. It's just not convincing to a lot of folk, apparently. Which I happen to concur w/.


----------



## Violent By Design

ErickRowan_Fan said:


> Storm's wrestling prowess is well-known and ROH is pretty much all about wrestling. A veteran choosing Bennett as one of his last opponents and now Bennett facing Tanahashi shows that there is a lot of confidence in Bennett's ability to deliver a good match. Let's see if he can live up to the expectations before we judge the booking of the match.



Storm is a career midcarder and he only had the talent of a midcarder, he's only overrated by ROH's fanbase because he represents the stereotypical image of what an ROH wrestler should be, bland personality, and trying to get matches over just by movesets instead of interesting story telling.

I really couldn't careless if Lance Storm picked Bennet to wrestle him, that is not a credential to me or even most wrestling fans for that matter. If it was like Shawn Michaels, Jerry Lawler or something, maybe guys who were main event talent but never got a fair shake like Regal or Finley, that would be worth pointing out; Lance Storm? I don't get it. 

ROH has faith in Bennett yes, but at the same time, ROH also sucks for a reason - so it really isn't saying much.

My opinion of course, but I had to raise an eyebrow when someone said "Lance Friggin Storm" as if he is special. I might as well brag that one time Justin Credible said he'd wrestle me, who gives a shit?


----------



## SOR

Violent By Design said:


> My opinion of course, but I had to raise an eyebrow when someone said "Lance Friggin Storm" as if he is special. I might as well brag that one time Justin Credible said he'd wrestle me, who gives a shit?


To be fair, Justin Credible will wrestle anyone that has 300 dollars and a room for him at the local Motel.

Lance Storm is very picky about where he wrestles and who he wrestles.


----------



## Snapdragon

Lance Storm

One of the most respected veterans in wrestling who is by plenty of people inside and out of wrestling to be one of the most gifted technical wrestlers of the last generation is suddenly a nobody to this forum because he likes Mike Bennett. I love this place sometimes.


----------



## Snapdragon

Violent By Design said:


> Storm is a career midcarder and he only had the talent of a midcarder, he's only overrated by ROH's fanbase because he represents the stereotypical image of what an ROH wrestler should be, bland personality, and trying to get matches over just by movesets instead of interesting story telling.
> 
> I really couldn't careless if Lance Storm picked Bennet to wrestle him, that is not a credential to me or even most wrestling fans for that matter. If it was like Shawn Michaels, Jerry Lawler or something, maybe guys who were main event talent but never got a fair shake like Regal or Finley, that would be worth pointing out; Lance Storm? I don't get it.
> 
> ROH has faith in Bennett yes, but at the same time, ROH also sucks for a reason - so it really isn't saying much.
> 
> My opinion of course, but I had to raise an eyebrow when someone said "Lance Friggin Storm" as if he is special. I might as well brag that one time Justin Credible said he'd wrestle me, who gives a shit?


Calls Lance Storm a career midcarder whose opinion doesn't matter but references Regal and Finlay as credible opinions. How the heck do you contradict yourself in the same sentence?

By the way Justin Credible isn't considered to be one of the best wrestlers of the last generation or a well respected veteran.

P.S. Jerry Lawler did nothing outside of Memphis. Wonder why.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Snapdragon said:


> Calls Lance Storm a career midcarder whose opinion doesn't matter but references Regal and Finlay as credible opinions. How the heck do you contradict yourself in the same sentence?


Most would agree those guys are main event caliber but as that guy said, they never got a fair shake.


----------



## THANOS

*ROH vs NJPW - Global Wars Toronto*

I'm going with 3 of my friends! Who else is going?


----------



## Canadian

*Re: ROH vs NJPW - Global Wars Toronto*

Me and my boys are going. There are a few GA tickets left but apparently not much in case anyone is on the bubble.


----------



## Canadian

SOR said:


> To be fair, Justin Credible will wrestle anyone that has 300 dollars and a room for him at the local Motel.
> 
> Lance Storm is very picky about where he wrestles and who he wrestles.


I respect both Storm and Credible. They both entertained me and I know they entertained a lot of other people on here. 

I can't stand it when people started ripping Credible for working at Olive Garden a couple years back made me sick. As if any jobs we as fans do to feed ourselves and our families has anymore value because it pays more. An honest hour worked and an honest hour paid is a good thing.

So if Justin Credible works for $300 to do what he loves, I respect that a lot more than a guy who earns $50,000 working a grind he despises.. Because the fact is most wrestling fans do jobs they hate, so don't knock the guys who do what they love.


----------



## THANOS

*Re: ROH vs NJPW - Global Wars Toronto*



Canadian said:


> Me and my boys are going. There are a few GA tickets left but apparently not much in case anyone is on the bubble.


I got 3 GA's today, what are your tix?


----------



## Violent By Design

Snapdragon said:


> Calls Lance Storm a career midcarder whose opinion doesn't matter but references Regal and Finlay as credible opinions. How the heck do you contradict yourself in the same sentence?


Simple answer is, I didn't contradict myself. I said in the same post that Finley and Regal were midcarders career wise, but talent wise they aren't.



> By the way Justin Credible isn't considered to be one of the best wrestlers of the last generation or a well respected veteran.


Haha, and Lance Storm is? Because he had a few ROH shows dedicated to him?

I have no idea what the "Last generation" is, but Lance Storm is nowhere near one of the best wrestlers of his generation. To put things in perspective, Shawn Michaels is the same age as Lance Storm and he blows Lance out the water.

Dean Malenko who is also a mid card talent, did the same exact thing Lance Storm did (bland, soulless wrestling that got by on being "technical") but way better. Lance Storm isn't anything special, certainly not special enough to be the end all to be all on who is a good wrestler and who isn't. If someone wants to defend Bennett, I think they're going to need a better reference then saying he wrestled Lance Storm (was their match even good?).



> P.S. Jerry Lawler did nothing outside of Memphis. Wonder why.


Uh, yeah he did? Also, Jerry drew so much money he never needed to leave a territory. If Jerry cared to wrestle a full schedule he could have headlined many WWE cards, he's an announcer by choice.

If you think Lance Storm is a "legend" and Jerry Lawler isn't that's cool for you, but you're certainly a large minority there both commercially and amongst big wrestling fans.



Snapdragon said:


> Lance Storm
> 
> One of the most respected veterans in wrestling who is by plenty of people inside and out of wrestling to be one of the most gifted technical wrestlers of the last generation is suddenly a nobody to this forum because he likes Mike Bennett. I love this place sometimes.


Textbook example of a strawman argument, and one of the best technical wrestlers of his generation?

I respect Lance Storm and the hard work he put in but he just wasn't that good, I'm not going to pretend that he was *generational* talent when he wasn't and that isn't disrespectful. I feel like I'm in this alternate reality where Lance Storm is being confused with other Canadian wrestlers like Bret Hart.


----------



## Last Chancery

*Re: ROH vs NJPW - Global Wars Toronto*

I'll be there. Have an extra front row I'm looking to get rid of.


----------



## Canadian

*Re: ROH vs NJPW - Global Wars Toronto*



THANOS said:


> I got 3 GA's today, what are your tix?


I'm sitting 5th row. There's about 6 of us and another couple of buds sitting in GA cause the view from the top of the arena is great. The cool thing is that the concession stand is dirt cheap and operated by a family that runs it for hockey during the winter.

Beers will also be $5 down on the floor but will likely run out after intermission. Take it from experience.


----------



## THANOS

*Re: ROH vs NJPW - Global Wars Toronto*



Canadian said:


> I'm sitting 5th row. There's about 6 of us and another couple of buds sitting in GA cause the view from the top of the arena is great. The cool thing is that the concession stand is dirt cheap and operated by a family that runs it for hockey during the winter.
> 
> Beers will also be $5 down on the floor but will likely run out after intermission. Take it from experience.


Great news man thanks for the tips! We're going up pretty earlier and will probably be in the area around 1 or 2pm, you, your friends, and anyone else is welcome to hang out with us before the show if you're interested? We'll probably hit up a bar or something.


----------



## SOR

Canadian said:


> I respect both Storm and Credible. They both entertained me and I know they entertained a lot of other people on here.
> 
> I can't stand it when people started ripping Credible for working at Olive Garden a couple years back made me sick. As if any jobs we as fans do to feed ourselves and our families has anymore value because it pays more. An honest hour worked and an honest hour paid is a good thing.
> 
> So if Justin Credible works for $300 to do what he loves, I respect that a lot more than a guy who earns $50,000 working a grind he despises.. Because the fact is most wrestling fans do jobs they hate, so don't knock the guys who do what they love.


I like Credible as well I'm just saying he'll work whoever you have for 300 bucks a night and a room. Lance Storm is a lot more picky and won't just work the local rec hall against your local champion like Credible would.

Not putting Credible down, just saying Bennett must be decent for Storm to be open to working with him.


----------



## Chismo

I haven't seen Bennett wrestle in a while, but I was one of the rare guys defending his work back in 2011 and 2012, when almost everyone thought Davey Richards and Tyler Black should be measuring sticks for main eventers in ROH. I really liked Bennett, especially his trilogy with Storm, that was great, also the matches with Edwards (awesome, compelling chemistry) and Lethal. I always found it insanely silly when ROH fans bashed him just because he wrestled a different, more simplistic style rather than ultra-athletic styles of Richards, Edwards, Black, Strong, Generico, etc. But ROH fans are the worst, so there you go. When I was watching ROH regularly, he was always the Top 3 wrestler in the promotion.

Like I said, I haven't seen him work in a while, but I'm pretty sure I'd like his stuff.


----------



## Concrete

Snapdragon said:


> Lance Storm
> 
> One of the most respected veterans in wrestling who is by plenty of people inside and out of wrestling to be one of the most gifted technical wrestlers of the last generation is suddenly a nobody to this forum because he likes Mike Bennett. I love this place sometimes.


Do you love this some times? I can feel it. The passion. The love. 

But honesty you are indeed one of the most grating individuals in this section, not because you think differently since that is totally fine by me, but you talk down to this entire section for whatever reason. Some people here are some REAL dicks and I get that but I don't think there is any need to swat at anyone's opinion(this really goes for anyone).I used to enjoy Storm but my tastes have change much like my taste for the SUPER INDY style that ROH typically delivers. That has nothing to do with Mike Bennett who is a fine wrestler. I don't believe Storm, especially if you read his Twitter and see some of his opinions, is the most profound bases to decide what makes someone good. You can decide. I can decide. ANY fan can decide who they think is good and who they think isn't. As much as people will say there is limited subjectivity I call BS on that. 

Back to Mike Bennett. I don't think people really hate him as much as they wanted a bigger opponent for Tanahashi because despite them putting Bennett in there with name talent almost consistently he has never been pegged as a main event talent, fair or not.


----------



## Peter Carroll

Lance Storm's opinion on wrestling means absolutely nothing. Perhaps if the dude had been an advocate for putting on unforgettable matches on a consistent basis.


----------



## KingCrash

Concrete said:


> Back to Mike Bennett. I don't think people really hate him as much as they wanted a bigger opponent for Tanahashi because despite them putting Bennett in there with name talent almost consistently he has never been pegged as a main event talent, fair or not.


Well part of that is ROH booking that makes it always seem like his matches are just there on the card to fill time. Bennett's not garbage but generally his matches go into the category of "watchable but immediately forgettable". Tanahashi will get some funny spots with Maria in, Bennett will get heat and the match will be inoffensive for the time it's given. Problem is since it's with once of the aces of a company and one of the guys people were looking forward to seeing, inoffensive isn't what people want.



> So they say Elgin vs the winner of Okada/Styles and then AJ isn't listed for the New York show?


I think they don't want to lock AJ into a match because they don't know if he's going to win the title before the show. Can't imagine the way people will lose their minds when/if that happens.


----------



## Snapdragon

Concrete said:


> Do you love this some times? I can feel it. The passion. The love.
> 
> But honesty you are indeed one of the most grating individuals in this section, not because you think differently since that is totally fine by me, but you talk down to this entire section for whatever reason. Some people here are some REAL dicks and I get that but I don't think there is any need to swat at anyone's opinion(this really goes for anyone).I used to enjoy Storm but my tastes have change much like my taste for the SUPER INDY style that ROH typically delivers. That has nothing to do with Mike Bennett who is a fine wrestler. I don't believe Storm, especially if you read his Twitter and see some of his opinions, is the most profound bases to decide what makes someone good. You can decide. I can decide. ANY fan can decide who they think is good and who they think isn't. As much as people will say there is limited subjectivity I call BS on that.
> 
> Back to Mike Bennett. I don't think people really hate him as much as they wanted a bigger opponent for Tanahashi because despite them putting Bennett in there with name talent almost consistently he has never been pegged as a main event talent, fair or not.


When have I talked down to the section? Please provide some examples. I don't even post in this section outside of the two stickied Japanese threads.


----------



## Snapdragon

Violent By Design said:


> Simple answer is, I didn't contradict myself. I said in the same post that Finley and Regal were midcarders career wise, but talent wise they aren't.
> 
> Haha, and Lance Storm is? Because he had a few ROH shows dedicated to him?
> 
> I have no idea what the "Last generation" is, but Lance Storm is nowhere near one of the best wrestlers of his generation. To put things in perspective, Shawn Michaels is the same age as Lance Storm and he blows Lance out the water.
> 
> Dean Malenko who is also a mid card talent, did the same exact thing Lance Storm did (bland, soulless wrestling that got by on being "technical") but way better. Lance Storm isn't anything special, certainly not special enough to be the end all to be all on who is a good wrestler and who isn't. If someone wants to defend Bennett, I think they're going to need a better reference then saying he wrestled Lance Storm (was their match even good?).
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, yeah he did? Also, Jerry drew so much money he never needed to leave a territory. If Jerry cared to wrestle a full schedule he could have headlined many WWE cards, he's an announcer by choice.
> 
> If you think Lance Storm is a "legend" and Jerry Lawler isn't that's cool for you, but you're certainly a large minority there both commercially and amongst big wrestling fans.
> 
> 
> 
> Textbook example of a strawman argument, and one of the best technical wrestlers of his generation?
> 
> I respect Lance Storm and the hard work he put in but he just wasn't that good, I'm not going to pretend that he was *generational* talent when he wasn't and that isn't disrespectful. I feel like I'm in this alternate reality where Lance Storm is being confused with other Canadian wrestlers like Bret Hart.


Finlay has never at any point in his career been world champion material. Regal only really started to be good in the past 4 years or so after he stopped wrestling full-time and became a special attraction talent.

Lance Storm was also pegged as a guy who could be world champion like Finlay and Regal but was never given a fair shake. But hey if you want to re-write history I'm not one to judge.

Sorry but no on the Jerry Lawler point. He never left Memphis because he wasn't a draw outside of his little bubble. He was the King of Memphis but never made strides anywhere else for good reason. Not to say Lawler isn't a good wrestler but he's not the best choice when mentioning "legends" especially not in the same breath as Shawn Michaels.

That's all I have to say about this. Mike Bennett vs Tanahashi will be a fantastic match and the result of it will again be Bennett getting 0 credit and being "carried" by his opponent.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7

This Lance Storm conversation is stupid.

As for Bennett, he's a decent to good worker. I'm sure his match with Tanahashi will be fine. However, I do think it would have made more sense for Tanahashi to face Cole and for Liger to face Bennett.


----------



## KicksToFaces!

> I do think it would have made more sense for Tanahashi to face Cole and for Liger to face Bennett.


Yeah, that would've been much better. But, I guess NJPW doesn't want to see their biggest star losing against the ROH Champion.


----------



## Chismo

Snapdragon said:


> Regal only really started to be good in the past 4 years or so after he stopped wrestling full-time and became a special attraction talent.


This pretty much kills every argument you've ever had.


----------



## amhlilhaus

lance storm was a great wrestler.

jerry lawler is a legend and could've gone ANYWHERE the fuck he wanted, gotten over and screwed your daughter.

end rant


----------



## Snapdragon

Chismo said:


> This pretty much kills every argument you've ever had.


As I said, I love Regal to death and am a huge fan of his

People didn't start jumping on the Regal bandwagon until past 4-5 years when Regal really hit his prime in terms of in-term ability and character. I've not seen anybody bring up a Regal match prior to 2010.


----------



## seabs

*You don't have a clue what you're on about if you think Regal only became appreciated over the last 4-5 years. *


----------



## Toonami4Life

amhlilhaus said:


> lance storm was a great wrestler.
> 
> jerry lawler is a legend and could've gone ANYWHERE the fuck he wanted, gotten over and screwed your daughter.
> 
> end rant


Lawler was a guy who was only successful in one Territory and booked himself on a Superman level so bad Cena would blush and lead to USWA going out of business.


----------



## Canadian

*Re: ROH vs NJPW - Global Wars Toronto*



THANOS said:


> Great news man thanks for the tips! We're going up pretty earlier and will probably be in the area around 1 or 2pm, you, your friends, and anyone else is welcome to hang out with us before the show if you're interested? We'll probably hit up a bar or something.


We'd be down for sure. We're all world travelers that love wrestling so meeting people and talking wrestling with new people is our thing.

Not sure if you're from Toronto but the street 3 blocks north of the arena is the Danforth which is in my opinion the best street in the city for food and cheap drinks. One block east of the intersection of Main Street/Danforth, 5 min walk from the arena, has a trio of dive bars that serve a decent meal and cheap beer. Dive bars in Canada are hilarious, not shady n case you're American. We will more than likely go to EVA's Bar & Restaurant. Perfect for wrestling fans to get their eat and drink at.

Also, if you like fish and chips, Len Duckworth's is awesome and right beside those joints.


----------



## seabs

Toonami4Life said:


> Lawler was a guy who was only successful in one Territory and booked himself on a Superman level so bad Cena would blush and lead to USWA going out of business.


*Um when you draw more in Memphis than ELVIS PRESSLEY you'd be a MORON not to book Lawler as the top guy. It's not hard to realise why the top draws always main event and win. IT'S BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT PAYING CUSTOMERS PAY FOR.

I guess we're all just ignoring the fact that Lawler worked World Class and AWA at the top of the card with the Von Erichs and Hennig as well then. 

The ignorance in this thread is remarkable. *


----------



## BKKsoulcity

Nakamura vs. Steen ....................


----------



## Violent By Design

Pre 2010, Regal was the only reason why people even watched RAW, he was going to get a main event run until he got busted for drugs - talk about a short memory.


----------



## THANOS

*Re: ROH vs NJPW - Global Wars Toronto*



Canadian said:


> We'd be down for sure. We're all world travelers that love wrestling so meeting people and talking wrestling with new people is our thing.
> 
> Not sure if you're from Toronto but the street 3 blocks north of the arena is the Danforth which is in my opinion the best street in the city for food and cheap drinks. One block east of the intersection of Main Street/Danforth, 5 min walk from the arena, has a trio of dive bars that serve a decent meal and cheap beer. Dive bars in Canada are hilarious, not shady n case you're American. We will more than likely go to EVA's Bar & Restaurant. Perfect for wrestling fans to get their eat and drink at.
> 
> Also, if you like fish and chips, Len Duckworth's is awesome and right beside those joints.


All of that sounds awesome man! I'm from Bowmanville which is about a 30 minute drive from Toronto, but I have lived there, for a year, in the past with the gf. PM me and we'll exchange communication info!


----------



## Toonami4Life

Seabs said:


> *Um when you draw more in Memphis than ELVIS PRESSLEY you'd be a MORON not to book Lawler as the top guy. It's not hard to realise why the top draws always main event and win. IT'S BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT PAYING CUSTOMERS PAY FOR.
> 
> I guess we're all just ignoring the fact that Lawler worked World Class and AWA at the top of the card with the Von Erichs and Hennig as well then.
> 
> The ignorance in this thread is remarkable. *


And eventually the fans in Memphis got bored and tired of Lawler and stopped going to the shows due to him being booked invincible over other guys the same way fans in WCW stopped going due to Hogan's reigns. USWA was around for nine years and everyone of those years Lawler spent as champion. The second most reigns? Kamala with Four comapred to Lawler's 28.


----------



## Violent By Design

Toonami4Life said:


> And eventually the fans in Memphis got bored and tired of Lawler and stopped going to the shows due to him being booked invincible over other guys the same way fans in WCW stopped going due to Hogan's reigns. USWA was around for nine years and everyone of those years Lawler spent as champion. The second most reigns? Kamala with Four comapred to Lawler's 28.


Not really, Lawler still drew, and still continued to draw until his heart attack.

The reason why USWA died is simple, because the WWE and WCW were way bigger and had more money to spend. ECW also started to take away the niche audience. USWA didn't have the scopes to make any national dents, the marketing just wasn't there.

The fact that Kamala was one of the USWA's biggest stars is telling of the talent they had on aboard, if Lawler wasn't in that promotion it would have died pretty much right away. USWA just sucked in general.


Lawler is the king of Memphis, the Emperor of that region. People still pay to see him wrestle when he is 60 years old. Even if you think his USWA run is a failure which it wasn't, he still was king of Memphis through out the 70s and 80s, and drew huge money. Lawler was rich way before he went to the WWE. Lawler probably made more money than most of the world champions of his time.


----------



## jawbreaker

Lance Storm is maybe the worst wrestler ever to work the "great wrestler" gimmick with a straight face. He's got an okay mind for the business but let's not buy into this ROH-created hype of him as some kind of Regal/Finlay level worker because he never was.

Lawler was phenomenal and any revisionist history that says otherwise can fuck off. Even if some of the fans got bored of him after TWELVE YEARS (which I'm not conceding), that is still a longer and better run than pretty much anyone. And that was in an era where guys moved from territory to territory every six months. I haven't seen his WCCW or AWA runs but he drew big in the CWF towards the late 80s, like I'm talking they ran bigger buildings so people could see Lawler. He stayed in Memphis because he didn't need to move, not because he couldn't. Fuck right off with your bullshit.


----------



## seabs

*Lance is more of smart fundamentally great wrestler than an actual great wrestler. That makes him a great trainer though.*


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Peter Carroll said:


> Tanahashi makes quick work of Bennett, only for Strong to come in and lay down an abrupt challenge.


Well, right now ROH's twitter retweets Mike's garbage-tweets and basically implies that their core fanbase are stupid nerds if they don't like that match.

Yep...


----------



## hgr423

What happened to the company that booked Kobashi / Joe?


----------



## Rah

Snapdragon said:


> I've not seen anybody bring up a Regal match prior to 2010.


Well, there's a Regal/Singh match from '87 that's probably the best/only noteworthy thing to be created in my city.


----------



## jawbreaker

Seabs said:


> *Lance is more of smart fundamentally great wrestler than an actual great wrestler. That makes him a great trainer though.*


I mean, Storm's one of the best there's ever been at putting on a hammerlock or whatever. But I don't go to wrestling shows to see perfectly applied hammerlock or whatevers, and if you do then you should learn what good wrestling is, because you're an idiot.

Also if you've never seen someone talk up a Regal match from before 2010 you either a) did not get into wrestling before 2010 or b) have made no effort to actually seek out good wrestling or c) both of these. His WCW stuff is superb and he was a lot of fun in 2001 as well.

Snapdragon, what are your favorite Lance Storm matches?


----------



## amhlilhaus

Toonami4Life said:


> Lawler was a guy who was only successful in one Territory and booked himself on a Superman level so bad Cena would blush and lead to USWA going out of business.


you obviously don't know your wrestling history, I'll explain it simply.

lawlers heyday was during the TERRITORIAL ERA. the major cities had a local promotion that ran that city and the surrounding area. the truly great areas had a mega over babyface that the fans loved or learned to love and the company made money. lawler was that wrestler for Memphis for close to 20+ years.

if he didn't own Memphis, lawler would've went somewhere else and done the same thing. ever listen to him on the mic? he could talk, he could wrestle and he oozed charisma.

that's the recipe for success in the business.

he didn't travel, BECAUSE HE DIDN'T NEED TOO.


----------



## Snapdragon

jawbreaker said:


> *Also if you've never seen someone talk up a Regal match from before 2010 you either a) did not get into wrestling before 2010 or b) have made no effort to actually seek out good wrestling or c) both of these. His WCW stuff is superb and he was a lot of fun in 2001 as well.*


This is simply not true. Please name me some memorable Regal matches from WCW and prior to 2010 WWE that people reference to this day.

Don't get me wrong Regal was always a solid wrestler, but he didn't hit his prime until 2010 when he became a special attraction. As I said and I stand by it. No one talks up Regal matches prior to 2010. It simply doesn't happen.

This is coming from a Regal fan by the way.

Edit: Getting off topic, this is supposed to be about the ROH/New Japan shows


----------



## Snapdragon

MTheBehemoth said:


> Well, right now ROH's twitter retweets Mike's garbage-tweets and basically implies that their core fanbase are stupid nerds if they don't like that match.
> 
> Yep...


It seems like a small vocal minority are the main ones complaining not the core fanbase.


----------



## Concrete

Snapdragon said:


> This is simply not true. Please name me some memorable Regal matches from WCW and prior to 2010 WWE that people reference to this day.
> 
> Don't get me wrong Regal was always a solid wrestler, but he didn't hit his prime until 2010 when he became a special attraction. As I said and I stand by it. No one talks up Regal matches prior to 2010. It simply doesn't happen.
> 
> This is coming from a Regal fan by the way.


Finlay vs. Regal from Uncensored is a real talked about match as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## KingCrash

Snapdragon said:


> It seems like a small vocal minority are the main ones complaining not the core fanbase.


I don't know how small it is considering if you know about Tanahashi then generally you're more of a hardcore fan than the regular person. And if you don't know Tanahashi then you don't see it as a big deal, but then you wouldn't be the person going to the show and buying tickets without a card announced. 

Also wouldn't put any stock into Bennett's twitter since he's just cherry-picking responses so he can get over his heel gimmick and be a bit of a douche at the same time.


----------



## Violent By Design

Snapdragon said:


> This is simply not true. Please name me some memorable Regal matches from WCW and prior to 2010 WWE that people reference to this day.
> 
> Don't get me wrong Regal was always a solid wrestler, but he didn't hit his prime until 2010 when he became a special attraction. As I said and I stand by it. No one talks up Regal matches prior to 2010. It simply doesn't happen.
> 
> This is coming from a Regal fan by the way.
> 
> Edit: Getting off topic, this is supposed to be about the ROH/New Japan shows



Yeah, you're a real huge Regal fan, you think he's midcard talent and as bad as Lance Storm. If you're a Regal fan you certainly have not showed it. No one cared about Regal before 2010, even though he was getting a main event push. Your statement about Lance Storm being seen as championship caliber is false (I don't mean my personal opinion on him, but he has NEVER been put in a situation where he'd go to the mainevent), he's never had anywhere near a push to the top. William Regal was the *MAIN HEEL* on RAW, the #1 heel, the final boss, even the WWE recognized that he deserved a main event run. Again, the only reason why he didn't get that is because he was suspended for drugs, maybe you didn't watch RAW back then, but I don't get how the hell you can say he was irrelevant pre 2010. 

When the hell has Lance Storm ever got that? Lance Storm's gimmick was being called fucking boring. He had midcard belts when he was in WCW durings its dying days, and he was a mid carder in bush league ECW. My point about bringing up guys like Regal is that there is nothing to suggest that Lance Storm deserved to ever be the main attraction, he's not Chris Benoit or something.

Regal vs Finley, Goldberg, Benoit, best of 5 series with Ric Flair all matches people talked as soon as I started using the internet to talk to people about wrestling.

If you think no one knows those matches, then you're obviously talking about a very generalized fanbase, any hardcore fan or anyone who has dug deep knows Regal matches. Yeah, they're not Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker fame if that's your argument. Hell, the Goldberg match isn't even that good, but it is like Goldberg's most famous TV match other than the one where he won the belt. There are more like his stuff with Bruiser, Sting, his WOS stuff, but what's the point? You're just going to say no one knows what they are because you have no idea yourself.


Yeah, maybe if you go in the WWE section here, no one might be able to speak too much, go into any wrestling forum where people dig deep, they all know Regal, and it sure as hell isn't because he's an announcer on FCW.

I'll let my point on Regal stand and won't comment on him in particular, feel free to think what you want, but it doesn't change anything about what I said about Lance Storm. I could replace Regal with less controversial names and my point would still stand, Lance Storm's voice is hardly gospel, he's not Ric Flair or Terry Funk(though I would not be surprised if you didn't respect Terry Funk either).

We could also start a topic on it if you want.


----------



## Canadian

I thought about it a lot more.

I respect Regal, but never considered him a serious main eventer in WCW or WWE.

With regards to Storm, I thought he was great in ECW. Other promotions not so much. The run he had as part of the Impact Players was great. I loved the post match promo where Storm would go "That beating was brought to you from Calgary. Alberta. Canada."


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7

You might as well start a topic because this thread is getting a bit sidetracked.


----------



## Canadian

Indeed.

As someone not really familiar with the NJPW scene - but learning rapidly and with great anticipation due to this forum - I'm not concerned with he card as I've always been extremely entertained by the 3 ROH shows I've gone to and I figure this one (Toronto) will not disappoint.


----------



## Rah

Not to derail this thread any further, but I think Regal deserves some kind of defence here.



Snapdragon said:


> This is simply not true. Please name me some memorable Regal matches from WCW and prior to 2010 WWE that people reference to this day.



Roy Regal v. Marty Jones (10/11/86 WoS)
Steven Regal Vs Tiger Dalibir Singh (??/??/1987)
Steven Regal Vs Terry Rudge (07/10/1988 CWA)
Lord Steven Regal Vs Arn Anderson (09/10/1993 WCW)
Lord Steven Regal Vs Arn Anderson (20/02/1994 WCW) - perfect study into Regal as a good character worker
Regal/Zbyszko in '94
Steven Regal Vs Shinya Hashimoto (16/04/1995 NJPW)
Blue Bloods Vs Bunkhouse Buck & Dick Slater (01/09/1995 WCW) - if only for Regal's facial expressions
William Regal Vs Fit Finlay (29/04/1996 WCW) - their '96 feud was class; their goodness spills over into SD a decade later
Lord Steven Regal Vs Villano IV (25/11/1996 WCW)
William Regal Vs Steve Austin (29/11/2001 WWF) - prime Austin working Regal to one of SD's best sprints ever
There's a few Benoit/Regal bouts that should be quite good (I've yet to rewatch them, though)
Regal/Punk in '08 had a good few matches (even if they went under 10 minutes a pop; there's a fancam of a longer match in '09 or something which is super fun)
William Regal Vs Tommy Dreamer in '09 ECW was Dreamer's best match ever, probably


There's a hell of a lot more matches I would love to go to but, with losing my text document on everything I've watched of him, I don't want to make a call on matches I can't accurately regard. Suffice to say, I view Regal as one of the best wrestlers to work in WWE and, over all, rank him far and above what the majority deem as GOAT (I got some backlash for saying he's better than HBK, for instance). Whether it's hyperbole on my part, or not, I'm not sure how anyone could not hold him at the pinnacle of WWE talent (at the very least).



Canadian said:


> I respect Regal, but never considered him a serious main eventer in WCW or WWE.


Regal in 2008 was legit great and you could see he was destined for something large. That's not to say he would eclipse the mainstay main eventers, he wouldn't, but people were vested in him and he delivered his end of the bargain. It's almost a pity that he was busted for a policy violation after his King of the Ring win, as it was the nail in the coffin of him ever getting that shot (something he's deeply regretted since).


----------



## Bubz

This thread makes me larf.


----------



## Concrete

It doesn't make sense but I'm going to continue to read LARF as Laughing Out Loud Farting. It can't be stopped.


----------



## Obfuscation

I actually thought about making a Regal list too, but really, there is no point. Feeding the lunacy of the subject that Regal only mattered from 2010 - today. Feel disgusting saying something so daft.

Not that I disagree w/Rah being the man for the job & posting one. List is mighty fine.


----------



## jawbreaker

Also Regal was a big part of 2009 ECW, which was a fantastic product for week-to-week TV wrestling. He also had a couple great matches with Prince Fucking Iaukea in WCW in 96 or 97, he dragged Ultimo Dragon's worthless carcass to a decent series, he had genuinely great matches with Rey Mysterio, and there might be a Malenko match somewhere in there that's good. And that's just from the year and a half of Nitros that I've bothered to go through. He was also on Saturday Night every week having great matches. I haven't even watched his 93-94 run that people talk up huge. He had a PPV match with Sting in 1993. He wrestled Ricky Steamboat on a regular basis. He was a _big fucking deal_ and fuck your revisionist bullshit.

Also I still have yet to see you pick out even one Lance Storm match as being good.


----------



## seabs

*Danielson/Strom was great but that was Danielson in 2006 so yeah. There's a Storm/Credible tag in ECW vs Jado/Gedo that is a super fun sprint. Really if you never see a Lance Storm match in your life you're not missing out on a whole lot but that doesn't mean he wasn't a good wrestler. He'd have good matches, just not great matches. *



Concrete said:


> It doesn't make sense but I'm going to continue to read LARF as Laughing Out Loud Farting. It can't be stopped.


*It means laugh. What it should be is laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarf.*


----------



## Peter Carroll

jawbreaker said:


> Lance Storm is maybe the worst wrestler ever to work the "great wrestler" gimmick with a straight face. He's got an okay mind for the business but let's not buy into this ROH-created hype of him as some kind of Regal/Finlay level worker because he never was.


----------



## Snapdragon

jawbreaker said:


> *fuck your revisionist bullshit.
> *
> Also I still have yet to see you pick out even one Lance Storm match as being good.


Jawbreaker being Jawbreaker nothing to see here folks :lmao

Lance Storm vs Edge Summerslam 2001
Lance Storm vs Danielson 2006 ROH
Lance Storm vs Mike Bennett Showdown in the Sun
Lance Storm vs Mike Bennett Border Wars
Lance Storm vs Jerry Lynn November to Remember
Lance Storm vs Jerry Lynn Anarchy Rulz
Lance Storm vs Jericho One Night Stand
Lance Storm vs Jericho War 1995

Just to name a few

I've yet to see his match with Hero or his Booker T matches but I've heard great things about those as well. Plus there's a match with Kevin Steen floating around somewhere from recently.


----------



## Snapdragon

Violent By Design said:


> When the hell has Lance Storm ever got that? Lance Storm's gimmick was being called fucking boring. He had midcard belts when he was in WCW durings its dying days, and he was a mid carder in bush league ECW. My point about bringing up guys like Regal is that there is nothing to suggest that Lance Storm deserved to ever be the main attraction, he's not Chris Benoit or something.


And Regal had a gimmick of being a construction worker

He also had a gimmick of being a stuffy British stereotype that ran around with a Japanese stereotype. What does gimmicks have to do with anything? Talents don't get to choose. But yeah Lance Storm was never going to be more than a midcarder, which is why WCW gave him 3 belts all at once and pushed him right from the getgo.


----------



## jawbreaker

Man I think the 06 Storm/Danielson match kinda sucks, especially as 06 Danielson matches go.

Also I had completely erased Jerry Lynn's ROH title run from my memory, fuck you forever for reminding me of it. Him and RVD are up there with Storm. Goddammit ECW.


----------



## Toonami4Life

To get this back on topic the night before The May 10th show, BCW is having a best of five series with New Japan as well. Scheduled bouts so far are Nakamura vs Tyson Dux and Okada vs Chris Sabin. Tanahashi, The Timesplitters, Karl Anderson, and Watanabe are set to appear as well.


----------



## Snapdragon

jawbreaker said:


> I mean, Storm's one of the best there's ever been at putting on a hammerlock or whatever. But I don't go to wrestling shows to see perfectly applied hammerlock or whatevers, and *if you do then you should learn what good wrestling is, because you're an idiot.*


Forgot to respond to this. Because fuck what others consider good wrestling. Everyone should enjoy wrestling one way and that is your way.


----------



## jawbreaker

Snapdragon said:


> Forgot to respond to this. Because fuck what others consider good wrestling. Everyone should enjoy wrestling one way and that is your way.


Obviously that statement was devoid of any hyperbole whatsoever, but you still clearly don't get the gist of it.

Wrestling is acting, not fighting, and judging it like it's fighting completely misses the point of the whole fucking thing. If you're going into a wine tasting and complaining that every wine doesn't taste enough like beer, then you will be laughed at. You can't just say "IT'S MY OPINION" and expect nobody to call you out on it.


----------



## Snapdragon

jawbreaker said:


> Obviously that statement was devoid of any hyperbole whatsoever, but you still clearly don't get the gist of it.
> 
> Wrestling is acting, not fighting, and judging it like it's fighting completely misses the point of the whole fucking thing. *If you're going into a wine tasting and complaining that every wine doesn't taste enough like beer, then you will be laughed at.* You can't just say "IT'S MY OPINION" and expect nobody to call you out on it.


That analogy doesn't make any sense in this scenario. Also wrestling is a lot of different things. If you're going into a Eddie Guerrero vs Benoit match judging it based off the acting then YOU have missed the point. Also there's a difference between calling out someone's opinion and just being a dick saying "YOU'RE WRONG I'M RIGHT"


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Regal > all of your favourite wrestlers. That is all.


----------



## Peter Carroll

A gift for the Regal bashers:


----------



## jawbreaker

Eddie and Benoit are fantastic actors though??? That's why they're good wrestlers???

Portraying believable combat is a big part of the acting that wrestlers do, but it's so far from the only part of it that it takes hyperbole to get the point across sometimes. Like, Jerry Lawler threw the best punches ever, but that's not the only reason he's fantastic. It's part of it, sure, just like playing instruments well is a big part of being a musician, but _it is not the only part, or even the most important part._

Like, okay, if all that mattered was how realistic the fighting looked then every shoot-style worker would be more highly regarded than every pro-style worker. And they're not. There's good shoot-style and there's bad shoot-style, and what makes say, Daisuke Ikeda a good worker isn't how hard he kicks, it's how good of an actor he is. Because pro wrestling is acting. There are subsections of that acting but on the whole it is a performance. And if you don't analyze it starting with that assumption, then your analysis can be wrong.

Wrestling isn't a math problem with one right answer. It's like a work of literature, or film, or television, or art, with plenty of interpretations that are all valid, and even more interpretations that are invalid. If you read _The Great Gatsby_ as a story about how awesome the parties were in the 1920s, you are reading it wrong. You can think it's good for any number of reasons, or bad for any number of reasons, but you need to be able to defend it. You're entitled to whatever you can argue for, not just whatever you can think.

With wrestling, there are established conventions regarding what constitutes good and bad wrestling, and if you can argue within them, you can make valid points. You can even choose to step outside the conventions and attack them at their base. But conventions exist to establish "right" and "wrong", and working within them, it's totally possible for an "opinion" to be objectively incorrect.


----------



## Snapdragon

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Regal > all of your favourite wrestlers. That is all.


Regal is one of my favorites.


----------



## Concrete

Can we discuss how overrated I feel Canadian wrestlers typically are?
...
...
...
I think they are overrated on the whole. I guess that wasn't particularly long.

Also, fuck RVD. And somehow I've come around as a fan of Sabu so you can feel free to say "Fuck you Sam"...unless you didn't know my name is Sam in which you could switch to "Fuck you Concrete". Though I'll still say Sabu holds up WAY better than he has any right to.


----------



## Chismo

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Regal > all of your favourite wrestlers. That is all.


My favorite wrestlers are Undertaker, Lita, Shawn Michaels and Eddie Guerrero.


----------



## ErickRowan_Fan

jawbreaker said:


> Obviously that statement was devoid of any hyperbole whatsoever, but you still clearly don't get the gist of it.
> 
> Wrestling is acting, not fighting, and judging it like it's fighting completely misses the point of the whole fucking thing. If you're going into a wine tasting and complaining that every wine doesn't taste enough like beer, then you will be laughed at. You can't just say "IT'S MY OPINION" and expect nobody to call you out on it.


While it's a form of acting to an extent, you also need to understand that there are many ways to pull off the act. Lance Storm was one of the best at acting like a serious, legitimate no-nonsense wrestler. He played that role exceptionally well and there was definite value in having him on the card. He appealed to some people and he didn't appeal to others, but at the end of the day his type of wrestler has a place in wrestling and always will. Maybe he was unable to get the crowd as emotionally involved as some of the legends who had the seemingly inexplicable "IT-factor" _but_ he's also a wrestler who can pass on his base knowledge of wrestling to the future generations (which is what he's doing now).

Realize that with a guy like Lance Storm, many of his best matches were matches that we never saw because guys like him aren't usually given much time on TV to have a solid match, especially not during the "Attitude Era" when much of the stuff involved people hitting each other with trash cans. This includes Regal and Finlay as well for anybody who is surprised at their seeming lack of classics prior to recent times.

Did he main event Wrestlemania? No. Was he an exceptional wrestler that is worthy of respect? Yes. Anybody who has had the career that he did internationally deserves a lot of respect. I don't understand why a wrestler would have to be Hulk Hogan or Shawn Michaels before their opinions have any value.


----------



## seabs

*He's worthy of respect for sure but that doesn't mean he was an exceptional wrestler. He was good at a pretty small aspect of the pro wrestling package but little else of it which is why he wasn't a great pro wrestler. It's like pointing out a wrestler who was amazing at working a character but couldn't have good matches. He had one aspect nailed down but that doesn't make him a great wrestler. A great wrestler is great at more than just one aspect of the entire package. You can say Lance Storm was a great technical wrestler (which he was) but that doesn't mean he was a great pro wrestler overall.*


----------



## jawbreaker

Concrete said:


> Can we discuss how overrated I feel Canadian wrestlers typically are?
> ...
> ...
> ...
> I think they are overrated on the whole. I guess that wasn't particularly long.
> 
> Also, fuck RVD. And somehow I've come around as a fan of Sabu so you can feel free to say "Fuck you Sam"...unless you didn't know my name is Sam in which you could switch to "Fuck you Concrete". Though I'll still say Sabu holds up WAY better than he has any right to.


I'm gonna need some examples for the "Canadian wrestlers are overrated" thing because apart from Storm and Bret Hart I'm not sure who you're thinking of. Edge? I'd say he's adequately rated. Christian is fantastic, Roddy Piper was great, Benoit was Benoit, and I guess you could say Jericho is overrated by some but I would probably disagree. Rocky Johnson was good, what I've seen of the Rougeaus I've liked, Dan Kroffat had some good matches... basically I'm going to need you to elaborate.

I'm 100% with you on RVD, though.


----------



## Peter Carroll

ErickRowan_Fan said:


> While it's a form of acting to an extent, you also need to understand that there are many ways to pull off the act. Lance Storm was one of the best at acting like a serious, legitimate no-nonsense wrestler. He played that role exceptionally well and there was definite value in having him on the card. He appealed to some people and he didn't appeal to others, but at the end of the day his type of wrestler has a place in wrestling and always will.
> 
> Realize that with a guy like Lance Storm, many of his best matches were matches that we never saw because guys like him aren't usually given much time on TV to have a solid match, especially not during the "Attitude Era" when much of the stuff involved people hitting each other with trash cans. This includes Regal and Finlay as well for anybody who is surprised at their seeming lack of classics prior to recent times.
> 
> Did he main event Wrestlemania? No. Was he an exceptional wrestler that is worthy of respect? Yes. Anybody who has had the career that he did internationally deserves a lot of respect. I don't understand why a wrestler would have to be Hulk Hogan or Shawn Michaels before their opinions have any value.


Most of his opinions are very flawed, that's why. I'm not fooled by him like I was a decade ago, even five years ago.


----------



## Concrete

Okay mostly Storm, Hart, and Edge but darn are they overrated. Jericho gets put on far too high a pedestal by some but not like astronomically so.


----------



## ErickRowan_Fan

Seabs said:


> *He's worthy of respect for sure but that doesn't mean he was an exceptional wrestler. He was good at a pretty small aspect of the pro wrestling package but little else of it which is why he wasn't a great pro wrestler. It's like pointing out a wrestler who was amazing at working a character but couldn't have good matches. He had one aspect nailed down but that doesn't make him a great wrestler. A great wrestler is great at more than just one aspect of the entire package. You can say Lance Storm was a great technical wrestler (which he was) but that doesn't mean he was a great pro wrestler overall.*


Again I'm not calling Lance Storm a great and never did. He probably wouldn't call himself great at anything except perhaps his knowledge of wrestling techniques.

However it's annoying that when a person isn't a Shawn Michaels, a Mitsuharu Misawa or a Daniel Bryan etc. they are deemed as worthless. It's a business where you aren't always even given the opportunity to get the crowd emotionally invested into your matches, after all the majority of Lance Storm's TV work consists of 5-minute matches where the commentators are talking over his ring action.

I've never been a huge fan of the work by the likes of Dean Malenko or Lance Storm but despite my personal preferences I can definitely see their worth. Put them in a 5-minute match with absolutely no build-up and they will do their best to make it interesting for the viewer.


----------



## seabs

ErickRowan_Fan said:


> Again I'm not calling Lance Storm a great and never did. He probably wouldn't call himself great at anything except perhaps his knowledge of wrestling techniques.
> 
> However it's annoying that when a person isn't a Shawn Michaels, a Mitsuharu Misawa or a Daniel Bryan etc. they are deemed as worthless. It's a business where you aren't always even given the opportunity to get the crowd emotionally invested into your matches, after all the majority of Lance Storm's TV work consists of 5-minute matches where the commentators are talking over his ring action.
> 
> I've never been a huge fan of the work by the likes of Dean Malenko or Lance Storm but despite my personal preferences I can definitely see their worth. Put them in a 5-minute match with absolutely no build-up and they will do their best to make it interesting for the viewer.


*Might have just been poor phrasing on your part but*



> Was he an exceptional wrestler that is worthy of respect? Yes.


*Reads like "yes he was an exceptional wrestler"*


----------



## ErickRowan_Fan

Peter Carroll said:


> Most of his opinions are very flawed, that's why. I'm not fooled by him like I was a decade ago, even five years ago.


Sure, I'm not saying we can't disagree with the man and his views. I'm just talking about a general level of respect. I feel like the discussion here too often degenerates to "oh, that guy, I don't like him, he sucks" instead of giving a little respect to these guys and the work they put in, which is why wrestlers feel so unwelcome by the "internet communities", even though there's actually a lot of knowledge and insight involved here sometimes.



Seabs said:


> *Might have just been poor phrasing on your part but*
> 
> 
> *Reads like "yes he was an exceptional wrestler"*


Storm was exceptional, although I guess that depends on your definition of exceptional. To me, it means that a person is better than average, thus he is an "exception", better than average. Being "great" is a title that should only be bestowed upon those who truly stand out from those that are even above average and who will be remembered long after their time is passed. Of course that's only my definition.

The point of the sentence was to make it clear that Storm wasn't a Wrestlemania main-event caliber talent anyway, even if it may have come off badly.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7

I think dismissing Storm's opinions because you don't like his matches or body of work is flawed logic. If his opinions don't count because he's never worked a good or great match then hardly any of the opinions made on this forum count seeing as rarely anyone here has worked a match. At the same time, I don't think Storm being a worker, good or not, suddenly makes his opinion infallible. His experience may provide a different insight, but it doesn't change that it's simply an opinion or the fact that other wrestlers can have different points of view.

As for Storm's ring work, he was just decent. I agree that Malenko did it better. Storm actually reminds me of Jake Shields from the UFC, or at least was from the UFC. He got cut because while he was technically sound his fights were boring. Maybe it's not Storm's fault, maybe he was just doing the gimmick too well. He once told a story about how he was constantly being told by the WWE to be more boring, stiff, bland etc. but then one day Jericho came out of a production meeting and told him that he was being buried for being too boring. Maybe it was that.

Regal is great, but I don't think he was the only reason why people watched Raw pre-2010.

Lance Storm only held those 3 belts for like a month and he only got that push because Johnny Ace made a bet with Russo that he could get Storm over.


----------



## jawbreaker

Concrete said:


> Okay mostly Storm, Hart, and Edge but darn are they overrated. Jericho gets put on far too high a pedestal by some but not like astronomically so.


I don't know, I think if you look at Jericho's body of work, it's pretty damn good. Like you've got the Power Trip tag, the LMS with Triple H, and the Michaels ladder match, all of which I'd call top ten matches for the 2000s. I'd probably be the only one to do that, but yeah. I definitely think he gets overrated by people who praise his "technical ability" or only watch wrestling for the promos, but he's a genuinely fantastic character worker who quite often delivered in big matches, and he had a decade and a half of producing good to very good matches. I wouldn't call him an all-time great, but an all-time very good doesn't seem like a stretch.

Erick Rowan dude, Seabs basically got it. Storm's great at one part of the package but not at the rest of it, and for no-nonsense technical dudes he's not even among the best (due to his weaknesses in other regards). Like, Dick Murdoch exists. He's a great trainer and while his opinions on the business shouldn't be taken as gospel, they're often worth the time of day. That doesn't make him an exceptional wrestler or an exception to the ipse dixit fallacy, like Snapdragon was suggesting he was ("if Mike Bennett sucks, why does LANCE STORM think he's good???").


----------



## ErickRowan_Fan

jawbreaker said:


> I don't know, I think if you look at Jericho's body of work, it's pretty damn good. Like you've got the Power Trip tag, the LMS with Triple H, and the Michaels ladder match, all of which I'd call top ten matches for the 2000s. I'd probably be the only one to do that, but yeah. I definitely think he gets overrated by people who praise his "technical ability" or only watch wrestling for the promos, but he's a genuinely fantastic character worker who quite often delivered in big matches, and he had a decade and a half of producing good to very good matches. I wouldn't call him an all-time great, but an all-time very good doesn't seem like a stretch.
> 
> Erick Rowan dude, Seabs basically got it. Storm's great at one part of the package but not at the rest of it, and for no-nonsense technical dudes he's not even among the best (due to his weaknesses in other regards). Like, Dick Murdoch exists. He's a great trainer and while his opinions on the business shouldn't be taken as gospel, they're often worth the time of day. That doesn't make him an exceptional wrestler or an exception to the ipse dixit fallacy, like Snapdragon was suggesting he was ("if Mike Bennett sucks, why does LANCE STORM think he's good???").


I think the standards people set here are a little too high. Storm is not among the best, that has been established. But I'm sure most wrestlers would be satisfied to have had the career that he did. He worked all the main shows and he worked against a lot of the top wrestlers.

And besides, what's with the attitude of revering the opinions of the best any more than Lance Storm's? Even if Ric Flair or Hulk Hogan told me that Mike Bennett is a star, would I take their opinions seriously? Nope. I don't take anybody's opinion as gospel, however I can respectfully disagree with it instead of calling them and their opinion worthless which is why this discussion initially started.

I just don't feel like I need to defend Storm's workrate only because I said that the guy isn't a worthless, no-good wrestler. I don't know why this discussion got sparked from what was a fairly classless remark in my opinion. Well, anyway it's been a better discussion than what it initially seemed like so not all bad.


----------



## Snapdragon

jawbreaker said:


> I don't know, I think if you look at Jericho's body of work, it's pretty damn good. Like you've got the Power Trip tag, the LMS with Triple H, and the Michaels ladder match, all of which I'd call top ten matches for the 2000s. I'd probably be the only one to do that, but yeah. I definitely think he gets overrated by people who praise his "technical ability" or only watch wrestling for the promos, but he's a genuinely fantastic character worker who quite often delivered in big matches, and he had a decade and a half of producing good to very good matches. I wouldn't call him an all-time great, but an all-time very good doesn't seem like a stretch.
> 
> Erick Rowan dude, Seabs basically got it. Storm's great at one part of the package but not at the rest of it, and for no-nonsense technical dudes he's not even among the best (due to his weaknesses in other regards). Like, Dick Murdoch exists. He's a great trainer and while his opinions on the business shouldn't be taken as gospel, they're often worth the time of day. That doesn't make him an exceptional wrestler or an exception to the ipse dixit fallacy, like Snapdragon was suggesting he was ("if Mike Bennett sucks, why does LANCE STORM think he's good???").


Once again you missed my point.


----------



## Snapdragon

jawbreaker said:


> Eddie and Benoit are fantastic actors though??? That's why they're good wrestlers???
> 
> Portraying believable combat is a big part of the acting that wrestlers do, but it's so far from the only part of it that it takes hyperbole to get the point across sometimes. Like, Jerry Lawler threw the best punches ever, but that's not the only reason he's fantastic. It's part of it, sure, just like playing instruments well is a big part of being a musician, but _it is not the only part, or even the most important part._
> 
> Like, okay, if all that mattered was how realistic the fighting looked then every shoot-style worker would be more highly regarded than every pro-style worker. And they're not. There's good shoot-style and there's bad shoot-style, and what makes say, Daisuke Ikeda a good worker isn't how hard he kicks, it's how good of an actor he is. Because pro wrestling is acting. There are subsections of that acting but on the whole it is a performance. And if you don't analyze it starting with that assumption, then your analysis can be wrong.
> 
> Wrestling isn't a math problem with one right answer. It's like a work of literature, or film, or television, or art, with plenty of interpretations that are all valid, and even more interpretations that are invalid. If you read _The Great Gatsby_ as a story about how awesome the parties were in the 1920s, you are reading it wrong. You can think it's good for any number of reasons, or bad for any number of reasons, but you need to be able to defend it. You're entitled to whatever you can argue for, not just whatever you can think.
> 
> With wrestling, there are established conventions regarding what constitutes good and bad wrestling, and if you can argue within them, you can make valid points. You can even choose to step outside the conventions and attack them at their base. But conventions exist to establish "right" and "wrong", and working within them, it's totally possible for an "opinion" to be objectively incorrect.


Sorry but that thought process of "things can only be interpreted one way or you're enjoying it wrong" is incredibly outdated and actually quite scary that it still exists in this day and age.

There's no wrong way to read Great Gatsby.

On the flipside when Catcher in the Rye first came out, for years people saw Holden Caulfield as a very intelligent character and the posterchild for teenage rebellion.

It wasn't until years after that people became interpreting the book differently realizing that Caulfield was nothing more than a douchebag brat. Are the people who interpreted a different way wrong? No. They simply have varying views on the subject.

Pro Wrestling IS and always has been the same way


----------



## Peter Carroll

> I think the standards people set here are a little too high.


Or yours are simply too low.


----------



## jawbreaker

ErickRowan_Fan said:


> I think the standards people set here are a little too high. Storm is not among the best, that has been established. But I'm sure most wrestlers would be satisfied to have had the career that he did. He worked all the main shows and he worked against a lot of the top wrestlers.
> 
> And besides, what's with the attitude of revering the opinions of the best any more than Lance Storm's? Even if Ric Flair or Hulk Hogan told me that Mike Bennett is a star, would I take their opinions seriously? Nope. I don't take anybody's opinion as gospel, however I can respectfully disagree with it instead of calling them and their opinion worthless which is why this discussion initially started.
> 
> I just don't feel like I need to defend Storm's workrate only because I said that the guy isn't a worthless, no-good wrestler. I don't know why this discussion got sparked from what was a fairly classless remark in my opinion. Well, anyway it's been a better discussion than what it initially seemed like so not all bad.


Maybe "Lance Storm sucks" is hyperbolic, but "Lance Storm isn't nearly as good as he's cracked up to be, in fact, he's little more than above average" takes a lot longer to type and the former provokes a stronger reaction, which creates actual discussion, which is the fun part of wrestling boards.

re: the second paragraph, I don't disagree. I don't think Storm's thoughts on wrestling have anything to do with his ability as a worker, I just think they're not brilliant. Today, he's known more for his demagoguery than his in-ring work, and Snapdragon didn't make it clear which he was referring to with the Bennett comment, so I figured I'd mention both. He's not a spectacular thinker or a spectacular worker. The two aren't related. And if Hulk Hogan said someone was good, I would probably assume they were horrible.


Snapdragon, if you don't understand that wrestling is a form of acting, you are as wrong as people who think Holden Caulfield is a role model.


----------



## jawbreaker

Also "there's no wrong way to read The Great Gatsby" is some copout shit you say when you get a D- on your paper because you said it was about how awesome the parties were in the 1920s.


----------



## Kaze Ni Nare

Boy this thread got extremely sidetracked.


----------



## ErickRowan_Fan

Peter Carroll said:


> Or yours are simply too low.


I will admit that my standards might be lower but that's because I try to take into account the physical pain, fatigue and emotions that the wrestlers are going through in a match. 

Almost without exceptions all of my early life wrestling "heroes" are now dead so I don't want to be disrespectful about the effort they put into working a match, even if's not an exciting one. Makes me feel bad when wrestlers are being disrespected _but_ again that's just me.


----------



## Peter Carroll

Kaze Ni Nare said:


> Boy this thread got extremely sidetracked.


Blame whoever booked Tanahashi's NYC opponent.


----------



## Peter Carroll

ErickRowan_Fan said:


> I will admit that my standards might be lower but that's because I try to take into account the physical pain, fatigue and emotions that the wrestlers are going through in a match.
> 
> Almost without exceptions all of my early life wrestling "heroes" are now dead so I don't want to be disrespectful about the effort they put into working a match, even if's not an exciting one. Makes me feel bad when wrestlers are being disrespected _but_ again that's just me.


If you're in that much pain, take a break or walk away. This is why I didn't get mad at Punk's decision a few months ago. Sticking around does him no physical/mental favors, and does no favors for the viewer's entertainment value.


----------



## Violent By Design

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> *I think dismissing Storm's opinions because you don't like his matches or body of work is flawed logic.* If his opinions don't count because he's never worked a good or great match then hardly any of the opinions made on this forum count seeing as rarely anyone here has worked a match. At the same time, I don't think Storm being a worker, good or not, suddenly makes his opinion infallible. His experience may provide a different insight, but it doesn't change that it's simply an opinion or the fact that other wrestlers can have different points of view.
> 
> As for Storm's ring work, he was just decent. I agree that Malenko did it better. Storm actually reminds me of Jake Shields from the UFC, or at least was from the UFC. He got cut because while he was technically sound his fights were boring. Maybe it's not Storm's fault, maybe he was just doing the gimmick too well. He once told a story about how he was constantly being told by the WWE to be more boring, stiff, bland etc. but then one day Jericho came out of a production meeting and told him that he was being buried for being too boring. Maybe it was that.
> 
> Regal is great, but I don't think he was the only reason why people watched Raw pre-2010.
> 
> Lance Storm only held those 3 belts for like a month and he only got that push because Johnny Ace made a bet with Russo that he could get Storm over.



Okay, this is something I need to point out, this also goes to the guy with the Wyatt avatar.

When I called out the guy for citing Lance Storm, I did not say it because Storm's opinion was irrelevant. His opinion to me, has no more barring than anyone else's, which is why I said "what is he, royalty?"



You have to remember the context of how Lance Storm was brought up.

It went like this (paraphrasing and being cheeky)

A: Bennett shouldn't wrestle Tanashi, he sucks - blah blah

B: Oh, I'm sorry, but Bennett does not suck. Lance Friggin Storm chose to wrestle him



So let's not dive into hyperbole, no you do not need to be Hulk Hogan for your opinion to matter, but the way Lance Storm was credited there made it seem like Storm was the Lou Thesz of pro wrestling, and that his opinion invalidates everyone's opinions (paying customers, the actual people who's opinion do matter ironically) on what they wanted to see on the NJPW vs ROH show.


On another note, saying Lance Storm sucks is not disrespecting him, because he is an artist - he is supposed to be criticized and rated. For the record, I do not think Lance Storm sucks, but I do think he is middling talent, and he pretty much achieved exactly what he should have achieved - it doesn't infer that I know more about wrestling than him, that is just a strawman argument to those who keep making it.


----------



## ErickRowan_Fan

Violent By Design said:


> Okay, this is something I need to point out, this also goes to the guy with the Wyatt avatar.
> 
> When I called out the guy for citing Lance Storm, I did not say it because Storm's opinion was irrelevant. His opinion to me, has no more barring than anyone else's, which is why I said "what is he, royalty?"
> 
> 
> 
> You have to remember the context of how Lance Storm was brought up.
> 
> It went like this (paraphrasing and being cheeky)
> 
> A: Bennett shouldn't wrestle Tanashi, he sucks - blah blah
> 
> B: Oh, I'm sorry, but Bennett does not suck. Lance Friggin Storm chose to wrestle him
> 
> 
> 
> So let's not dive into hyperbole, no you do not need to be Hulk Hogan for your opinion to matter, but the way Lance Storm was credited there made it seem like Storm was the Lou Thesz of pro wrestling, and that his opinion invalidates everyone's opinions (paying customers, the actual people who's opinion do matter ironically) on what they wanted to see on the NJPW vs ROH show.
> 
> 
> On another note, saying Lance Storm sucks is not disrespecting him, because he is an artist - he is supposed to be criticized and rated. For the record, I do not think Lance Storm sucks, but I do think he is middling talent, and he pretty much achieved exactly what he should have achieved - it doesn't infer that I know more about wrestling than him, that is just a strawman argument to those who keep making it.


Fair enough, in the proper context your post seems reasonable. 

We definitely don't need to be throwing around wrestler's opinions as the authority on any subject, otherwise the quality of the discussion will devolve into petty arguments about which wrestler's opinion is more credible instead of using our own brains.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7

That first line was directed to you.


----------



## Lariatoh!

So what's the card again?

(See what I did there)

Honestly though what's the card, I've gone through the Storm and Regal stuff and I can't seem to find it... Maybe I'll check google


----------



## Last Chancery

Peter Carroll said:


> Blame whoever booked Tanahashi's NYC opponent.


:vince2

NJPW screwed NJPW.


----------



## Bubz

Never thought I'd see pages of discussion on LANCE STORM~!


----------



## Violent By Design

Peter Carroll said:


> Blame whoever booked Tanahashi's NYC opponent.


:lmao


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Last Chancery said:


> :vince2
> 
> NJPW screwed NJPW.


The BCW shows have 2 matches announced and it already looks 2x times better than this.

The problem here, however, isn't just ROH's shitty call. ROH's current roster, compared to NJPW's true star power, just sucks monkey cock. I love Steen, but Shinsuke/Him is just an awkward match up, for example. What else do they have? Freaking Ciampa? Freaking Lethal? Get the fuck outta here. You can't have a dream card vs NJPW Stars with this roster. You just can't.


----------



## FITZ

I wish Cole wasn't the champion and they could just book him against a big hard hitting New Japan guy that would just beat the shit out a heel Cole. 

Instead he's probably going to wrestle Liger....


----------



## KingCrash

He is booked against Liger and it's a title match. A little strange that Strong, the guy who's gimmick is that he faces outsiders is most likely going to be in a multi-tag match. Unless AJ wins the title and then they might go with Okada/Strong to try and make up for AJ/Elgin III.


----------



## Snapdragon

Liger still brings it in big matches


----------



## Peter Carroll

Cole will benefit greatly from working with Liger. That should be outstanding.


----------



## RKing85

New York is definitly the stronger line-up IMO. But still stoked to be there for the Toronto show.


----------



## Leonardo Spanky

What exactly is the Corner row? Anybody ever had a ticket for that section at the Ted Reeve arena in Toronto?


----------



## Leonardo Spanky

*Re: ROH vs NJPW - Global Wars Toronto*



Last Chancery said:


> I'll be there. Have an extra front row I'm looking to get rid of.


Still looking to get rid of your extra?


----------



## Snapdragon

Mike Bennett and Maria addressed the fan response to the Tanahashi match announcement and frankly really hit the nail on the head about how people respond to things. Definitely worth a listen.


----------



## FITZ

Leonardo Spanky said:


> What exactly is the Corner row? Anybody ever had a ticket for that section at the Ted Reeve arena in Toronto?


I would imagine that it means you sit behind a corner of the ring. Certainly not the best seats and the view could be really bad for tag matches but it gets you in the door.


----------



## USAUSA1

According to Court Bauer, these matches were created by NJPW.


----------



## seabs

*Well duh.*


----------



## Leonardo Spanky

Complete card for the Toronto show is now up on ROHwrestling.com with a few matches added:



> MATCHES BROUGHT TO YOU BY NEW JAPAN PRO WRESTLING
> 
> - Hiroshi Tanahashi & Jushin Thunder Liger vs. Shinsuke Nakamura & Jado
> 
> - The Bullet Club (“The Phenomenal” AJ Styles & “Machine Gun” Karl Anderson) vs IWGP Heavyweight Champion Kazuchika Okada & Gedo
> 
> - Takaaki Watanabe vs. "Unbreakable" Michael Elgin (IWGP Heavyweight Title Contender)
> 
> IWGP JUNIOR HEAVYWEIGHT TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP - 3-WAY TAG TEAM MATCH
> - Forever Hooligans (Alex Koslov & Rocky Romero) vs. Time Splitters (KUSHIDA & Alex Shelley) vs. Young Bucks (Nick & Matt Jackson) (c)
> 
> On 5/3 in Fukuoka, Japan The Young Bucks will defend the IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag Team Championships against Forever Hooligans at NJPW Dontaku. The winners of that match will defending their championships in this three way contest.
> 
> MATCHES BROUGHT TO YOU BY RING OF HONOR WRESTLING
> 
> ROH WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP
> - Kevin Steen vs. Adam Cole (c)
> 
> ROH TELEVISION CHAMPIONSHIP - 4 CORNER SURVIVAL
> - Tommaso Ciampa vs. Matt Taven vs. Silas Young vs. Jay Lethal (c) w/ Truth Martini
> 
> THE DECADE BANNED FROM RINGSIDE
> - Roderick Strong vs. Cedric Alexander
> 
> 3-Way Tag Team Match
> - reDRagon (Kyle O'Reilly & Bobby Fish) vs. Mark & Jay Briscoe vs. The Decade (BJ Whitmer & Jimmy Jacobs) w/ Tadarius Thomas
> 
> - Michael Bennett w/ Maria Kanellis vs. ACH


----------



## Kaze Ni Nare

The next two weeks should be good, I'm excited personally.


----------



## FITZ

Seabs said:


> *Well duh.*


New Japan obviously got to book the matches or else ROH would attempt to put together the greatest card ever, which New Japan probably wouldn't want to take place outside of Japan.


----------



## Proc

I have extra tickets for the New York show. We were supposed to go in a bigger group but since on the same weekend is also a graduation in Boston a few people dropped out. All tickets are general admission lower balcony. I am going to attend the show myself so obviously no fakes.

I am not asking for hundreds or thousands of dollars like some people on stubhub do, but I wont give them away for cheap either. If interested pm me and maybe we can work something out.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7

From Wrestling Observer:



> The Toronto show had the ROH booker, Hunter Johnston, do half the show and Gedo & Jado did the other half, with each booking the shows with the guys from their company. For New York, because it was a lot of New Japan vs. ROH matches, it was a political deal with both sides co-booking, using Romero as the intermediary. The idea was that New Japan has certain people they wanted protected in booking, as did ROH, and they worked the matches around that. With Tanahashi working low on the card with Bennett, it seems to tell me that he’s hurting (his back is bad) and they aren’t putting him in a main event spot where there will be more pressure on him to have the 25 minute PPV caliber match. Like I said last year, even though his second and third matches with Nakamura were great, I believe he’s won his last Wrestler of the Year award and will be in the superstar emeritus role and follow the career path of Yuji Nagata at a similar phase, where in his time you can go to him for big matches, but he’s not going to be “the guy” with the world title doing the ****½ PPV matches every month.


----------



## RKing85

debating how much money I should bring to the Toronto show to spend on merchandise.

Bauer on f4w said New Japan was bringing over a bunch of merch to sell.


----------



## Snapdragon

RKing85 said:


> debating how much money I should bring to the Toronto show to spend on merchandise.
> 
> Bauer on f4w said New Japan was bringing over a bunch of merch to sell.


ROH is also making ROH vs New Japan merch as well apparently. I'd say bring extra money just in case you change your mind.


----------



## Chismo

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> From Wrestling Observer:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said last year, even though his second and third matches with Nakamura were great, I believe he’s won his last Wrestler of the Year award and will be in the superstar emeritus role and follow the career path of Yuji Nagata at a similar phase, where in his time you can go to him for big matches, but he’s not going to be “the guy” with the world title doing the ****½ PPV matches every month.
Click to expand...

LEL, he's saying that for a year now, and good ole Tanahashi has already main evented three major shows this year already... while being in the IC title picture. Plus, he's 37 and works smart, one good surgery and he can rule the promotion yet again. Theoretically, of course. Being 37 is nothing in Japan.


----------



## MTheBehemoth

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> From Wrestling Observer:


They need a safe worker and ROH picks Bennett? 

*whitmer face*


----------



## SpookyTuesday

Hey guys... just wondering if anybody happens to have any extra tickets to Global Wars for sale? I kept putting off buying them like an idiot, and now it appears to be sold out.


----------



## Obfuscation

Meltzer's outlook on what Tanahashi can still provide is immensely daft. He knows he'll be giving Tanahashi high marks for years to come. A Japanese wrestler can sneeze and Dave will adore it.


----------



## Corey

I didn't see this posted in here so I just had to drop in and share the news because it made me laugh so hard.



Spoiler: War of the Worlds



- Ring of Honor has updated their official lineup for the upcoming ROH/NJPW War of the Worlds event for May 17 due to AJ Styles recent IWGP heavyweight title win. You can check out the updated card below. War of the Worlds will be held at the Hammerstein Ballroom in New York City.

* ROH champion Adam Cole vs. Jushin Liger.

* IWGP champion AJ Styles vs. Michael Elgin

* ROH Tag Team champions The Young Bucks vs. reDRagon.

* IWGP Tag Team champions Karl Anderson & Doc (Luke) Gallows vs. The Briscoes

* ROH TV champion Jay Lethal vs. KUSHIDA.

* Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Kevin Steen.

* *Kazuchida Okada vs. Cedric Alexander.*

* Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Michael Bennett.

* The Decade's BJ Whitmer & Roderick Strong vs. Gedo and Jado

Matt Taven & ACH & Tommaso Ciampa vs. The Forever Hooligans and Takaaki Watanabe

* Also appearing are Adam Page, Silas Young and more.​



:lmao

Massive supercard overall though.​


----------



## Snapdragon

Okada taking on one of the hottest and most talented young wrestlers on the scene today that has been putting on a fantastic series of matches for months

Not sure why that's funny.


----------



## ROHFan19

I actually think that the match will be better considering Cedric actually sells and doesn't wrestle ABC matches. Cedric is a better wrestler than Elgin IMO...and I'm not sure many people would disagree with that.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Jack Evans 187 said:


> * *Kazuchida Okada vs. Cedric Alexander.*
> 
> Massive supercard overall though.
> [/LEFT]


Was that ROH's site that actually spelled Okada's first name wrong?


----------



## MajinTrunks

Just saw the cards for Global Wars and War of the Worlds. Holy fucking shit. I'll be happy to give them my money.


----------



## malek

But where is Shelley on that card ?! Really hoped he and KUSHIDA would have tagged vs ReDragon


----------



## Chismo

Daaayum, Elgin and AJ better tear the fucking house down, bcuz I gotta feeling the fans might tear them apart.


----------



## BlueRover

ROH in NYC will be my first non-WWE wrestling event. I really can't wait. I've always wanted to see AJ Styles, he was the best part of TNA for many years. Can't say I recognize the the other names, but the handful of ROH matches I've seen have always greatly impressed me. Such talent deserves much more recognition.


----------



## Corey

So I haven't seen anything Cedric Alexander has done this year, but in all the singles and tags I've seen from him prior, there's been nothing to make me think he's gonna be a star or a hot talent or anything along those lines. His selling was comical, he's completely void of charisma, and his offense looks weak. I was never a big fan of C&C Wrestle Factory and Alexander's matches on the indies before this year didn't do much for me. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong.



bigbuxxx said:


> Was that ROH's site that actually spelled Okada's first name wrong?


Hahaha. No, it's actually from an article on 411Mania. It's yet to be updated on their website.



malek said:


> But where is Shelley on that card ?! Really hoped he and KUSHIDA would have tagged vs ReDragon


I think Shelley was only advertised for Global Wars unfortunately since Lethal/Kushida has been booked for a while. Sorry guy. 



Chismo said:


> Daaayum, Elgin and AJ better tear the fucking house down, bcuz I gotta feeling the fans might tear them apart.


Oh yeah, I can picture the boos and same old shit chants.


----------



## RKing85

got the spaces already set out for the dvd's on my shelf when they come out later this summer.


----------



## KingCrash

I like Cedric and between this and the match with Roddy that weekend he could impress. Still in bit of a bad spot due to them advertising Okada/Elgin and while Cedric's been pushed recently with the Decade feud I don't think people put him in the same class as Elgin (the next ROH champ).



Chismo said:


> Daaayum, Elgin and AJ better tear the fucking house down, bcuz I gotta feeling the fans might tear them apart.


I could see the fans turning on it, especially if they do interference like Kings/MCMG which had the Briscoes hated in NYC for a couple of years.


----------



## TripleG

So AJ Styles Vs. Michael Elgin and Young Bucks Vs. reDragon are going to be on this card? Yeeeeeah, I am going to have to check this out now. I kind of want to see those matches.


----------



## FITZ

KingCrash said:


> I like Cedric and between this and the match with Roddy that weekend he could impress. Still in bit of a bad spot due to them advertising Okada/Elgin and while Cedric's been pushed recently with the Decade feud I don't think people put him in the same class as Elgin (the next ROH champ).
> 
> 
> 
> I could see the fans turning on it, especially if they do interference like Kings/MCMG which had the Briscoes hated in NYC for a couple of years.


The Briscoes would have remained hated for even longer if it wasn't for Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas being even more hated. Ruining a big match is something that faces shouldn't be doing.


----------



## Bookockey

Snapdragon said:


> Okada taking on one of the hottest and most talented young wrestlers on the scene today that has been putting on a fantastic series of matches for months
> 
> Not sure why that's funny.


 I don't watch ROH, but Cedric delivers the goods in PWX. He had a great match with AJ Styles that is on youtube and a couple of strong matches against Caleb Conley for the PWX Championship. Their match in Greensboro last month was amazing.


----------



## BornBad

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I didn't see this posted in here so I just had to drop in and share the news because it made me laugh so hard.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: War of the Worlds
> 
> 
> 
> - Ring of Honor has updated their official lineup for the upcoming ROH/NJPW War of the Worlds event for May 17 due to AJ Styles recent IWGP heavyweight title win. You can check out the updated card below. War of the Worlds will be held at the Hammerstein Ballroom in New York City.
> 
> * ROH champion Adam Cole vs. Jushin Liger.
> 
> * IWGP champion AJ Styles vs. Michael Elgin
> 
> * ROH Tag Team champions The Young Bucks vs. reDRagon.
> 
> * IWGP Tag Team champions Karl Anderson & Doc (Luke) Gallows vs. The Briscoes
> 
> * ROH TV champion Jay Lethal vs. KUSHIDA.
> 
> * Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Kevin Steen.
> 
> * *Kazuchida Okada vs. Cedric Alexander.*
> 
> * Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Michael Bennett.
> 
> * The Decade's BJ Whitmer & Roderick Strong vs. Gedo and Jado
> 
> Matt Taven & ACH & Tommaso Ciampa vs. The Forever Hooligans and Takaaki Watanabe
> 
> * Also appearing are Adam Page, Silas Young and more.​
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao
> 
> Massive supercard overall though.​


----------



## Corey

TripleG said:


> So AJ Styles Vs. Michael Elgin and Young Bucks Vs. reDragon are going to be on this card? Yeeeeeah, I am going to have to check this out now. I kind of want to see those matches.


Both are rematches, believe it or not. Styles vs. Elgin has actually already happened twice this year within the same company.


----------



## MetalKiwi

Wish we had ROH on New Zealand TV. Looks damn good.


----------



## RKing85

as far as I know, all their shows are still available on their website.


----------



## Canadian

Me and the boys are going to Eva's Bar and Grill at 5:30pm before the Toronto show on Saturday which is about 5 blocks northeast north from the venue and they serve cheap beer and decent food, also for cheap. If anyone else wants to join feel free. It'll be good to meet some new peoples.

Cheers


----------



## Ham and Egger

The dream match nobody asked for okada v Alexander. Ugh fpaln

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Obfuscation

Same reaction reDRagon vs Outlaw Inc from Final Battle got for Styles vs Elgin would be worth seeing.

Oh, and yeah. The Okada match. Can't help but chuckle when you think about it, huh? Goes from main eventing show after show, only to come to America and be given a low card match w/a rising guy who hasn't got a chance in hell to be a believable threat. Just another Tanahashi vs Bennett situation, as it were. Oh well.


----------



## Corey

So if Steen somehow wins the ROH Title at Global Wars, do you think they'd switch and give us Steen vs. Liger and Cole vs. Nakamura? I think if they kept it the way it is and did Steen vs. Shinskay in the main event for the World Title that it would be a 150% better main event than what we have set now (whether it be Cole/Liger or Styles/Elgin III).

All theoretical thinking of course.


----------



## Obfuscation

I think it is stationary that Liger is getting the World Championship shot.


----------



## Concrete

I thought the match set-up was loser of Cole vs. Steen goes against Nak and winner faces Liger?


----------



## Corey

And here we see the difficulties of booking a show within two companies when things can switch SO much just weeks before it.  (and they already have)


----------



## Last Chancery

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Same reaction reDRagon vs Outlaw Inc from Final Battle got for Styles vs Elgin would be worth seeing.
> 
> Oh, and yeah. The Okada match. Can't help but chuckle when you think about it, huh? Goes from main eventing show after show, only to come to America and be given a low card match w/a rising guy who hasn't got a chance in hell to be a believable threat. Just another Tanahashi vs Bennett situation, as it were. Oh well.


Look at it from the perspective of Danielson/Tanahashi from years ago. Danielson wasn't shit, really, and he was 22 years old in the match. Tanahashi was like, 27 or so, and he beat him in 15 minutes. I don't think they knew at the time where Dragon would be in a decade, but they were relatively sure of Tana, even then. That match looks outstanding 10 years later, and I have a feeling people will be saying similar things about Okada/Cedric from next weekend's card. Not saying Cedric is at Bryan's level, just that it will be seen as a similar type of deal.


----------



## Corey

I completely understand where you're coming from but Danielson's body of work from '04 and prior was a huge catalog of show stealing matches and MOTYC so it's still tough to compare that to Okada/Alexander. It's whatever though. Nothing else we can do but watch the match. Also different that this is Okada coming to North America instead of Alexander going over there. It's kind of like envisioning someone the caliber of CM Punk going over to Japan for one of the first times and being put in a match against someone like... Mikey Nicholls or Shane Haste. hahaha. I couldn't think of someone else.


----------



## Obfuscation

What?

Those are nothing alike. Bryan Danielson was already somebody by 2004. Age isn't the factor in this scenario at all. Not to mention that match happened in New Japan. Which is why it got high billing on that card. Again, deviating from the scenario that has been raised by the Okada match by people itt.


----------



## RKing85

got I'm getting excited for this.

Would cry so hard if something happened with my flight.


----------



## NastyYaffa

Okada deserves better... fuckin lol.


----------



## Joshi Judas

Wtf are they doing with Okada?? fpalm

Would take another Okada/Tana match in North America over this.


----------



## THANOS

Hey guys I'm going to Global Wars this Saturday and I'm bringing a few signs!

One of my ideas is to make a Kevin Steen sign with a huge drawing of him, with a face hole cut out in the belly so I can put my face through it, and the slogan, "EAT STEEN EAT"! :

What are your thoughts?


----------



## Saber Rider ^-^

THANOS said:


> Hey guys I'm going to Global Wars this Saturday and I'm bringing a few signs!
> 
> *One of my ideas is to make a Kevin Steen sign with a huge drawing of him, with a face hole cut out in the belly so I can put my face through it, and the slogan, "EAT STEEN EAT"!* :
> 
> What are your thoughts?


Yup that would work, you put a little sub text that says "Kevin Steen Package Piledrive every hamburger" (Y)


----------



## THANOS

Saber Rider ^-^ said:


> Yup that would work, you put a little sub text that says "Kevin Steen Package Piledrive every hamburger" (Y)


Great idea :lmao. I'm going to draw this up today, and will post a pic once it's finished!


----------



## Saber Rider ^-^

THANOS said:


> Great idea :lmao. I'm going to draw this up today, and will post a pic once it's finished!


I need to see this sign man , I bet Wrestling's Worst Nightmare gives you a big up if he sees that sign :lmao


----------



## Natecore

Wrestling fans gonna bitch. I'm fine with whatever matches they set up. I'm not getting Okada/Elgin so its all a loss for me. Its the only crossover "dream match" I wanted. Should be a fun show.


----------



## Last Chancery

fpalm

Y'all do what ya want to do.


----------



## Ham and Egger

Realistically I don't care for anyone with the exception of Lethal and Styles so anyone they pair up with the NJPW guys is a step down for me.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## DDR_03

Has anyone got a pair of spare tickets for the NY show? Will be a little over face value.


----------



## FITZ

There are some on stubhub but the price is certainly a little more than face value as well.


----------



## bigbuxxx

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> Wtf are they doing with Okada?? fpalm
> 
> Would take another Okada/Tana match in North America over this.


You say that like Okada/Tana matches are piss poor or something. I'd love to see Okada/Tana in ROH and I haven't watched ROH since BitW '11 and won't watch these cards barring amazing reviews.


----------



## RKing85

48 hours away. Getting excited.


----------



## Leonardo Spanky

I'll be going to the Toronto show but I have a seat in the 'corner' section. Could be crappy viewing from there so if anyone has a spare ticket for sale in the first few rows let me know.


----------



## RKing85

ted reeve is small enough that there is no truly horrible seat in terms of distance from the ring. Course with a corner section, the ring posts could be a real piss off.


----------



## DDR_03

TaylorFitz said:


> There are some on stubhub but the price is certainly a little more than face value as well.


I've seen them on stubhub, crazy what they are going for.


----------



## Darkest Lariat

I wish I could go to the NYC show. But moving blew all my money.


----------



## Leonardo Spanky

Is anyone else looking to go to the Toronto show? I'm waiting to hear back from someone who is selling 2nd row tickets but he's only selling as a pair. So PM if youre interested.


----------



## RKing85

Have to get up at 3:30 tomorrow morning to make my flight to Toronto. Ugh.

But it should be worth it.


----------



## THANOS

Here's onne of my signs for tonight :.










Since then I darken the words at the bottom so it's much more visable.

My other sign is a purple one that reads, "THANOS WRESTLING - FORUM"


----------



## THANOS

Btw guys, ill be wearing what I have on above plus a dark grey and black trucker puma hat, and a brown leather jacket if u guys see me on tv!


----------



## Joshi Judas

bigbuxxx said:


> You say that like Okada/Tana matches are piss poor or something. I'd love to see Okada/Tana in ROH and I haven't watched ROH since BitW '11 and won't watch these cards barring amazing reviews.



I LOVE their series but I think they shouldn't face each other for a while. It was more to show how disinterested I've quickly become in Okada's match due to his opponent now that I'd watch another Okada/Tana over that.


----------



## FITZ

Okada with someone that nobody thinks has a chance to beat him could work. If Cedric can give a really strong underdog performance the match can be great. I'm not upset about it all and it gives Cedric a chance to make a name for himself if he has a good match.


----------



## Saber Rider ^-^

THANOS said:


> Here's onne of my signs for tonight :.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since then I darken the words at the bottom so it's much more visable.
> 
> My other sign is a purple one that reads, "THANOS WRESTLING - FORUM"


^ :lel THANOS GOATING with that sign. You need to start a EAT STEEN EAT chant, that'll get his attention. :lmao


I honestly believe they’ve booked the Okada / Cedric match based on necessity more than anything. We have to remember that ROH is a promotion in a state of change where a couple of guys at the top of their card could very well be on their way out. They need new draws, they need new stars.

There’s no way in hell Okada was losing against anyone, he’s going over no matter what, they could bring Joe back for one more match and he’d still be going over, NJPW probably made that non-negotiable. If that’s the case why not use this as a vehicle to give a younger guy you have faith in the rub. If Cedric puts on a great competitive match (theirs a good chance they will) they instantly make a new star even with a loss.

Okada gets his overseas win, ROH make a star, win / win really. I’d bet they’re using this same logic with the Mike Bennett / Tanahashi match.


----------



## THANOS

Fuck I don't know if my sign will make the hard camera  lol. Btw Maria is insanely hot in person, I was surprised as fuck. Steen is looking really fat as well lol.


----------



## Flashyelbow

THANOS said:


> Fuck I don't know if my sign will make the hard camera  lol. Btw Maria is insanely hot in person, I was surprised as fuck. Steen is looking really fat as well lol.



Dude I just saw when he grabbed your sign on the ippv so badass!


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Clif Grime

THANOS said:


> Here's onne of my signs for tonight :.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since then I darken the words at the bottom so it's much more visable.
> 
> My other sign is a purple one that reads, "THANOS WRESTLING - FORUM"


I just marked out over that sign!


----------



## NastyYaffa

Hahah was great to see Steen have fun with THANOS' sign  Epic!


----------



## THANOS

Holy Fuck :mark: what an experience, Steen took my sign and used it on Adam Cole! So fucking epic :mark: :mark:


----------



## amhlilhaus

THANOS said:


> Holy Fuck :mark: what an experience, Steen took my sign and used it on Adam Cole! So fucking epic :mark: :mark:


he broke your property dude! fucka:stupid::woolcock


----------



## captainzombie

THANOS said:


> Fuck I don't know if my sign will make the hard camera  lol. Btw Maria is insanely hot in person, I was surprised as fuck. Steen is looking really fat as well lol.





Flashyelbow said:


> Dude I just saw when he grabbed your sign on the ippv so badass!
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Yeah, that was awesome. As soon as I saw that, I was like holy shit Steen took the guys sign that he was discussing on the forums about making one.

Overall, this show was awesome. My first iPPV that I have purchased and do not regret it at all. Has me even more pumped now for next week's show.


----------



## THANOS

He even came over after the cameras stopped and talked to me and asked what it said! He blew me a kiss earlier in the match as well lol. Hilarious and crazy experience. Steen was such an epic badass in that match!


----------



## Darkest Lariat

Dude, that's fucking awesome that happened to you.


----------



## Japanese Puroresu

Sign came out 500x better than I originally thought. Overall the card was awesome.


----------



## THANOS

DragonSleeper said:


> Dude, that's fucking awesome that happened to you.


Thanks man. Steen definitely became a big time favourite of mine after tonight. I always liked him before but he's top 5 for me now.



Japanese Puroresu said:


> Sign came out 500x better than I originally thought. Overall the card was awesome.


Really? That's awesome. I wasn't sure what actually made the camera so it will be interesting to see when I watch it back. Did you guys see me as well?

In regards to the rest of the show, I now have a new appreciation for superkicks, spinebusters and backdrops lol. I never thought much of them before, but seeing them live and hearing the impact was incredibly eye-opening for me. I also finally know what fans are saying at every 2-count kick out now. I used to think they were just booing, but they actually are yelling "TWOOOOOOOOO" lol.

My favourites matches were Steen/Cole, obviously , and the Hooligans/Time Splitters/Young Bucks tag titles match. Did both those matches come across as the best on TV? After that I enjoyed the ROH TV Title fatal 4-way, and the Briscoes/reDragon/Decade tag match.


----------



## Last Chancery

THANOS said:


> He even came over after the cameras stopped and talked to me and asked what it said! He blew me a kiss earlier in the match as well lol. Hilarious and crazy experience. Steen was such an epic badass in that match!


I was sitting to your right when this happened. It was awesome.


----------



## THANOS

Last Chancery said:


> I was sitting to your right when this happened. It was awesome.


You were? Did you have a ball cap on?


----------



## NastyYaffa

Steen vs. Cole was such a great match. Best ROH Main Event in a loooong time, if you ask me.


----------



## Leonardo Spanky

I was on the other side but ya that was awesome when Steen grabbed your sign since I saw your post yesterday afternoon. I was sitting on the side where Ciampa went over the guardrail. He hit the women sitting in the first row there and she was a little shaken up. An ROH official came by later and took her away for a minute and when she returned she had some merchandise. 

That IWGP tag team title match was wild. And the crowd reactions for Steen/Cole was something else. 

Never bring a credit card to an ROH show because I spent way too much money. Great selection of DVDs. What was with the lack of New Japan merch though besides that one shirt? Did anyone see any Bullet Club shirts?

Did any of you meet any wrestlers before the show? I held AJ Styles'IWGP championship and was surprised how heavy that thing was.


----------



## THANOS

Leonardo Spanky said:


> I was on the other side but ya that was awesome when Steen grabbed your sign since I saw your post yesterday afternoon. I was sitting on the side where Ciampa went over the guardrail. He hit the women sitting in the first row there and she was a little shaken up. An ROH official came by later and took her away for a minute and when she returned she had some merchandise.


That's sounds insane lol, I remember when he flew over the rail. I saw the first running knee on my corner.



Leonardo Spanky said:


> That IWGP tag team title match was wild. And the crowd reactions for Steen/Cole was something else.


I know man, crazy as fuck to be a part of!



Leonardo Spanky said:


> Never bring a credit card to an ROH show because I spent way too much money. Great selection of DVDs. What was with the lack of New Japan merch though besides that one shirt? Did anyone see any Bullet Club shirts?


I did see some Bullet Club merch early on at the left merch stand, but it sold out quick, real quick.



Leonardo Spanky said:


> Did any of you meet any wrestlers before the show? I held AJ Styles'IWGP championship and was surprised how heavy that thing was.


I actually met Maria by her choice if you believe it lol. She got up at some point from her autograph stand to go somewhere, and she wasn't looking where she was going and bumped into my brother, friend, and I, and she looked at us as if she was surprised we were there, and then said and I quote, "Three really cute guys, what are you guys doing here " :lol. It was surreal as fuck.


----------



## amhlilhaus

it was a nice show. wished okada could have hit the rainmaker on one of them though


----------



## Saber Rider ^-^

THANOS said:


> He even came over after the cameras stopped and talked to me and asked what it said! He blew me a kiss earlier in the match as well lol. Hilarious and crazy experience. Steen was such an epic badass in that match!


HOLY SHIT THANOS dude, just HOLY SHIT 
:mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark:

If anyone missed THANOS becoming the undisputed Coolest man on WF:



Spoiler: Steen blowing THANOS a kiss

















Spoiler: THANOS accepts Steen's rep:











[/img]





Spoiler: Steen borrows the sign:

















Spoiler: Even the commentators were like: That's a nice sign there

















Spoiler: Steen uses the aforementioned sign to beat the shit out of Cole:


----------



## Vårmakos

Plz tell me that one of you guys hoarded rainmaker dollars and will sell them on Ebay.


----------



## Canadian

Here's my thoughts on the show.

1) Thanos' sign was f'n hilarious. The crowd popped for it nicely. The interaction between fans and the ROH guys is great. Case in point: Someone in front of me was chirping Mike Bennett and Maria and Bennett looks at him, grabs his nuts and tells him straight up to suck his dick. That cracked us up.

2) The Hooligan's/Bucks/Splitters match was the best on the card. No surprise there.

3) The TV Title match was apparently like only 8 minutes long. Disappointed in that.

4) NJPW merch sold out real early on, like not even making it to intermission. One small table. For those of you in NYC don't make the same mistake I did by missing out.

5) Steen/Cole match was great. I don't enjoy Kevin Steen to be honest but out of the four times I've seen him live this was his best performance.

6) Floor seats were a disaster, no twist ties to secure the seats so the aisles to get in and out were done before the first match even happened.

7) I prefer gen admission seating as opposed to the 5th row floors we had. Why a couple of people stand up for a sharpshooter is beyond me. 

8) When someone kicks out at 2, don't yell out 2.9 20 consecutive times. If no one laughs - which they did not - it is not funny. lol

9) Great to see the love for Liger and Rainmaker. You could tell that the Okada chants were well received.

10) I'm bothered that there is absolutely no Forever Hooligans merch. I love these guys. I think a bunch of people would buy those awesomely stupid Russian hats lol.

11) Maria Kanellis. Just delicious.


----------



## BKKsoulcity

Cedric had a certain IT factor to him during that match with Roddy. Pretty awesome considering he is definitely going to be utilized as the future of ROH very soon.

Loved seeing Okada give the fans some love overseas compared to Japan where he still kayfabes his heel persona

Did anyone feel like they were running low on time and had to rush alot of things?

Either way this whole event was the perfect tease for the NY show


----------



## THANOS

Saber Rider ^-^ said:


> HOLY SHIT THANOS dude, just HOLY SHIT
> :mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark:
> 
> If anyone missed THANOS becoming the undisputed Coolest man on WF:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Steen blowing THANOS a kiss
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: THANOS accepts Steen's rep:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/img]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Steen borrows the sign:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Even the commentators were like: That's a nice sign there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Steen uses the aforementioned sign to beat the shit out of Cole:


Thanks Saber, you and many others here marking out over it, made the effort I put into created the sign all the more worth it! :



Canadian said:


> Here's my thoughts on the show.
> 
> 1) Thanos' sign was f'n hilarious. The crowd popped for it nicely. The interaction between fans and the ROH guys is great. Case in point: Someone in front of me was chirping Mike Bennett and Maria and Bennett looks at him, grabs his nuts and tells him straight up to suck his dick. That cracked us up.
> 
> 2) The Hooligan's/Bucks/Splitters match was the best on the card. No surprise there.
> 
> 3) The TV Title match was apparently like only 8 minutes long. Disappointed in that.
> 
> 4) NJPW merch sold out real early on, like not even making it to intermission. One small table. For those of you in NYC don't make the same mistake I did by missing out.
> 
> 5) Steen/Cole match was great. I don't enjoy Kevin Steen to be honest but out of the four times I've seen him live this was his best performance.
> 
> 6) Floor seats were a disaster, no twist ties to secure the seats so the aisles to get in and out were done before the first match even happened.
> 
> 7) I prefer gen admission seating as opposed to the 5th row floors we had. Why a couple of people stand up for a sharpshooter is beyond me.
> 
> 8) When someone kicks out at 2, don't yell out 2.9 20 consecutive times. If no one laughs - which they did not - it is not funny. lol
> 
> 9) Great to see the love for Liger and Rainmaker. You could tell that the Okada chants were well received.
> 
> 10) I'm bothered that there is absolutely no Forever Hooligans merch. I love these guys. I think a bunch of people would buy those awesomely stupid Russian hats lol.
> 
> 11) Maria Kanellis. Just delicious.


Great thoughts! I agreed with quite a lot of them!

Hey guys the full payperview is up on watchwrestling.ch and here is the link to Okada/Gedo vs Bulletclub and Steen vs Cole.

If you're curious my sign and appearance begins around 28:25 I think.

http://pwtalk.net/cgi-bin/protect.cgi?File=w77zTUIg.html


----------



## rohisawesome34

Didn't see the Toronto show last night as I watched the nfl draft during the day then the awesome ufc fight night with brown vs silva in the main event which was incredible. But I heard last nights show was great I had a friend who went to the show last night at the ted reeve arena and he said he had the time of his life best roh show he's been to so far and he goes to every Toronto roh show. I'm gonna be in New York next weekend 6th row floor at the Hammerstein ballroom looking forward to being there match card looks awesome very strong too eligin vs styles will be fun to see live finally aj on top again. Liger vs cole should be great. There's not one bad match on the card and yes that includes the Bennett match should be an Amazing night for those of you not going last night was ok to skip out on like I did but don't skip out on next weekends show worth 15 bucks and more!


----------



## sizor

HOLY SHIT OKADAAAAAA!!!!!
OKDA VS AJ!!!


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Mediocre show, as expected. Junior tag was very good (MOTN), but compared to EVOLVE's AR/Nation vs Nese/Baretta (EVOLVE 29 was a better show this weekend btw), it was nothing special.


----------



## Last Chancery

MTVDTH said:


> Plz tell me that one of you guys hoarded rainmaker dollars and will sell them on Ebay.


Some folks were. I managed to grab TWO, and I paid $3 American for one. Found another in the bleachers somehow. Giving one away, keeping the other. Those were insane in their demand. Ditto those fancypants Bullet Club shirts -- as seen worn by me in that second screen cap!


----------



## Last Chancery

THANOS said:


> You were? Did you have a ball cap on?


I was the guy in the Bullet Club shirt, and I'm double posting just to tell you!

Love how much your sign got on TV. During the first ring post nut shot, Cole didn't see where the ring post was due to your sign, and he took a header off the post. It was vicious.


----------



## Darkest Lariat

Just got done watching it. I'd never watched ROH before and likely won't again after this crossover is finished. Wow this stuff sucks. The Jr. Hvy was the best match. And that ring is pretty small. And that one announcer guy is more annoying than all three WWE commentators combined.


----------



## Vårmakos

Don't be upset that Adam Cole is prettier than your boy Shins'kay.


----------



## Canadian

Two more things that came to mind.

First, ROH NEEDS to get a bigger TV for above the entrance or better yet - and more cost-efficient- go get a white screen and a projector. What they use right now is tiny and it'd be great for them to show past matches, promos or promote future events on it. 

The Japanese style was very fresh to me and I thought it to be more subdued. After reading another thread on here I think I'm going to learn more about the differences between it and what we're accustomed to here in North America.


----------



## Chismo

Decent show, New Japan's "Road to" stuff was solid, but I've seen it hundreds of times, sure this time it happened in Canada, but w/e. Nothing bad, nothing great, just solid wrestling.

ROH's stuff was an instant reminder of why I don't bother with that piece of junk promotion anymore. Steen/Cole was good, but barely.



DragonSleeper said:


> And that one announcer guy is more annoying than all three WWE commentators combined.


Kevin Kelly. He is dirt worst. He's even worse than Corino and Nigel, which is quite remarkable. I swear a fucking god, they're way worse than Tenay/Taz and Cole/Lawler/JBL.


----------



## Leonardo Spanky

After seeing how well received the New Japan stars were in Toronto maybe we can get a New Japan show here in the future. Have they ever done that?


----------



## SAMCRO

Corino was really annoying me during the Young Bucks title match, literally every single time they nailed a superkick Corino would scream "SUPERKICK!! SUPERKICK!!" Seriously it would just take me out of the moment every time, especially when they did like 3 superkicks in a row.


----------



## FenceMan

So does the 1,250 followers of the channel mean that is how many IPPV buys they got?


----------



## KicksToFaces!

Anything MOTYC worthy, or was it just mediocre?


----------



## Martyn

My first ROH show in years and it directly remindend me why I've stopped watching and moved on onto the japanese greatness. Commentary, ring and the whole *dirty* atmosphere was just awful and painful to watch. Gonna watch just ROH/New Japan stuff and thats all. After that rather mediocore show, I am still hyped for the Hammerstein Ballroom event. Steen/Nakamura is my personal dream match and thats the first ROH show I've paid for. Hope that it will deliver and we'll see more of Steen battling against New Japan stars in the future.


----------



## LunchCombo

I went to the Toronto show and over the last year I have been watching as much NJPW as I could as a way to get some sort of descent wreslting since the WWE hasn't been doing it for me fully lately. I did not know much about ROH prior, I knew a little of Kevin Steen but nothing to write about and I knew AJ Styles (Technically NJPW atm but still an ROH darling).

I thought the show was great, it was VERY unorganized though from the half assed autograph session to the seating even though it worked in my favor though I see where people would get annoyed. The sad part was that the NJPW crew only had one table of merch and it ran out before 640 and the show started at 730. There was a very cool red NJPW shirt that we wanted but apparently that sold out almost immediately, I tried to buy one off of the staffs' back but he wouldn't budge heh.

As for the matches, the opener really lifted our spirits because the mood was generally a bit down to begin with so this match did its job perfectly and I was really digging ACH. 

I came into this show knowing of the Briscoe Brothers, knowing that they good but knowing that they were also just terrible people in real life made it hard to cheer for them at first. Once the match got going and the Briscoe's carried the whole match made me like their characters at least, they are indeed very good.

A friend of mine that was at the show with me told me if you watch The Young Bucks more than twice a year then they get very dry and boring fast with the 1001 super kicks so luckily for me I have watched them only once in the last year so I thought their match was VERY entertaining. I was already a fan of Shelly and Kushida so I was rooting for them but Forever Hooligans really did a fantastic job too, every team was awesome and this was at the time match of the night.

Going into the show I was kind of let down that the Japanese matches were random tag matches and I was going into it pretty much knowing we wouldn't get to see a Bome Ye or a Rainmaker since their teams were more than likely going to lose but regardless of al lthat it was amazing to see Tanahashi, Okada, and my favorite Nakamura live, I wish that they had longer matches or at least a better card but beggars can't be choosers I suppose. I will definitely be watching the NYC show because Steen/Nakamura excites the living hell out of me. 

SO I didn't know much anything of Cole or Steen to begin with but by the end of the match I loved Steen, he is so good working the crowd and hearing his back story with Cornette from my friend made him even more awesome. When the match ended I was disappointed but at least it meant we got Nakamura/Steen but man can Cole take some punishment, taking 4 powerbombs to the apron, another powerbomb variation off the top rope and another DDT variation from the top rope onto the corner, he should be in a wheel chair heh.

Either way given how the rest of my day went too, I had a blast and if something like this ever were to happen again I would definitely make the 8 hour trip to NYC or a similar location to get the better card but even if I can't I would go anyway because it is just too much fun not to.


----------



## LunchCombo

I later watched the PPV in pieces on the internet and I do agree, the commentary is awful.


----------



## Kaze Ni Nare

Good show, I'm looking forward to seeing the NY show as well.

I marked out when I saw THANOS sign though cause I had forgot about it completely until Steen took the sign.

Good to see Okada getting lots of love as well.


----------



## lolomanolo

Anybody selling merch on eBay?


----------



## THANOS

Kaze Ni Nare said:


> Good show, I'm looking forward to seeing the NY show as well.
> 
> I marked out when I saw THANOS sign though cause I had forgot about it completely until Steen took the sign.
> 
> Good to see Okada getting lots of love as well.














I wish someone would create gifs of the interaction between Steen and I, as well as him taking it and using it on Cole .


----------



## RKing85

The show was worth every penny I paid for it. Getting there was kind of fun as the subway didn't go to the scheduled stop due to track maintenance so had to get off early then take a bus. So that was fun, but I did get there with time to spare.

Bought 5 shirts (4 for me) and 4 dvd's. 

The show was awesome. Crowd was hot right from the start. Right from the dark match through to the end. Alexander/Strong really overachieved, it ended up being one of the better matches on the card. The IWGP Jr. Tag Team Three-Way was outstanding! Match of the night IMO. The crowd was really into the RD Evans bit to come back from intermission. WWE take note, that is how you do comedy in wrestling correctly! Jushin Liger was the most over Japanese fighter with Okada second I would say. The Bullet Club was over huge, but the fans still respected them enough to make them the heels. The main event was awesome. Kevin Steen is so fucking over in Toronto. Some fans were legit upset that he lost.


----------



## DGenerationMC

I wonder if AJ and Bullet Club will do an all out invasion of ROH. 

I don't watch Machine Gun alot, but I was shocked that he did the Ace Crusher/RKO. I think he does it better than Orton on some days.


----------



## LunchCombo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTONIO-INO...6?pt=US_Mens_Tshirts&var=&hash=item4177160a28

Selling these shirts
The red one is def. my favorite


----------



## Japanese Puroresu

RKing85 said:


> The show was worth every penny I paid for it. Getting there was kind of fun as the subway didn't go to the scheduled stop due to track maintenance so had to get off early then take a bus. So that was fun, but I did get there with time to spare.
> 
> Bought 5 shirts (4 for me) and 4 dvd's.
> 
> The show was awesome. Crowd was hot right from the start. Right from the dark match through to the end. Alexander/Strong really overachieved, it ended up being one of the better matches on the card. The IWGP Jr. Tag Team Three-Way was outstanding! Match of the nigh WWE take note, that it IMO.* The crowd was really into the RD Evans bit to come back from intermission.s how you do comedy in wrestling correctly!* Jushin Liger was the most over Japanese fighter with Okada second I would say. The Bullet Club was over huge, but the fans still respected them enough to make them the heels. The main event was awesome. Kevin Steen is so fucking over in Toronto. Some fans were legit upset that he lost.


The streak isn't a joke bro.


----------



## NastyYaffa

Am I the only one who thought Cole/Steen was the MOTN? One of the best ROH main events in a while, imo.


----------



## THANOS

NastyYaffa said:


> Am I the only one who thought Cole/Steen was the MOTN? One of the best ROH main events in a while, imo.


I did to. The wrestling was fantastic, the storytelling was decent, crowd interaction was obviously oustanding , and it was the most over match on the show. It was my match of the night, 5 seconds of fame aside, and my second was the Jr Tag Titles match with the Young Bucks, hooligans, and Time Splitters.


----------



## Japanese Puroresu

NastyYaffa said:


> Am I the only one who thought Cole/Steen was the MOTN? One of the best ROH main events in a while, imo.


Depends, because Tanahashi and Nakamura swagged my stream up something fierce. I am a bigger Steen fan too. It was damn good.


----------



## RKing85

Anyone in New York who buys a New Japan shirt, be sure to order a size up. Large is usually perfect for me, but this one is just about skin tight on me.


----------



## cablegeddon

Wtf? Liger did not get a bigger pop than okada. That is a total fabrication. Okada was the most popular wrestler of the night.

Im very surprised though that nobody gave a shit bout tanahashi. Ignorant canadians.


----------



## Alex Steel

cablegeddon said:


> Wtf? Liger did not get a bigger pop than okada. That is a total fabrication. Okada was the most popular wrestler of the night.
> 
> Im very surprised though that nobody gave a shit bout tanahashi. Ignorant canadians.


We cared, but the timing of his entrance was slightly awkward because we were still super hot for Liger when Tanahashi's music hit. I think everyone just came down after screaming so much for the legend. By the time Tanashi came out, we were pretty spent. Hiroshi's reputation as "the John Cena of New Japan" probably didn't help him much either with the ROH crowd.


----------



## Mister Master




----------



## Corey

In a very strange turn of events, Cedric Alexander has been pulled from War of the Worlds due to "injuries" sustained at the hands of the Decade at Global Wars.

http://www.rohwrestling.com/news/cedric-alexander-war-worlds-okada-will-still-be-action

So does this open the door for a 3-way IWGP Title match??? Styles vs. Okada vs. Elgin


----------



## Concrete

I find it hilarious that the best match at War of the Worlds has been nixed for what may end up being bottom 2 or 3.


----------



## Canadian

Jack Evans 187 said:


> In a very strange turn of events, Cedric Alexander has been pulled from War of the Worlds due to "injuries" sustained at the hands of the Decade at Global Wars.
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/news/cedric-alexander-war-worlds-okada-will-still-be-action
> 
> So does this open the door for a 3-way IWGP Title match??? Styles vs. Okada vs. Elgin


I'm a huge fan of C&C Wrestle Factory. Too bad for me that Alexander is going to get a push it seems as I hoped to see a few more matches against Forever Hooligans between the two sides.


----------



## Rah

What's Hero doing?


----------



## Chismo

Rah said:


> What's Hero doing?


Watching obscure Johnny Saint DVDs.


----------



## Even Flow

Rah said:


> What's Hero doing?


In Canada.


----------



## LunchCombo

I don't know if it was just where we were sitting (Section A) or what but the general consensus around us was that the Alexander/Strong match wasn't that good. I honestly was bored throughout except for the last few minutes. Maybe its because I dont watch ROH much and the gentlemen don't have a flashy gimmick to them so it was harder to get into, go figure.


----------



## Corey

Even Flow said:


> In Canada.


The show is in Canada.


----------



## Obfuscation

War of the Worlds is in New York.


----------



## Even Flow

Jack Evans 187 said:


> The show is in Canada.





Hayley Seydoux said:


> War of the Worlds is in New York.


^^


----------



## Concrete

Funny enough he'll be in Upstate NY Friday-Sunday. Heh. Gonna be seeing him tonight and Sunday. He'll be in Buffalo on Saturday.

EDIT: I'm talking about Hero if that isn't clear.


----------



## Proc

People dropped out and I have tickets left for tomorrows show in the Hammerstein Ballroom. All GA lower balcony. I am going to attend the show myself so meet up is no problem. Hit me up if interested.


----------



## Corey

Hahaha. My apologies. I thought both were in Toronto.


----------



## Chelsea411

If anyone on here is selling a ticket to the show please PM me. I'm really looking for a ticket for the show.


----------



## iamloco724

For those that have GA tomorrow, what time do you plan on getting there?


----------



## Ham and Egger

iamloco724 said:


> For those that have GA tomorrow, what time do you plan on getting there?


I'll probably be there at 6 to get some merch at the tables. I need me some NJPW shirts! :mark:


----------



## FITZ

If you have a GA seat you should be there a lot earlier than 6.


----------



## iamloco724

TaylorFitz said:


> If you have a GA seat you should be there a lot earlier than 6.


Yeah thats my plan just trying to figure out how early


----------



## NastyYaffa

Very excited for tonight's show!

Briscoes vs. Gallows n' Gun, Nakamura vs. Steen & Young Bucks vs. reDRagon are all gonna be great matches.

Also, it will be interesting to see do they add Okada to Elgin vs. Styles. That would be sweet.


----------



## scrilla

didn't get the last one because the card looked p. weak to me. will be watching this one though.


----------



## Kaze Ni Nare

Hopefully somebody has a THANOS moment tonight. :lol


----------



## Sazer Ramon

I walked by at around 10:30 AM this morning and it was dead.


----------



## RKing85

So torn on what to watch tonight.

This iPPV or the Bellator PPV.


----------



## almostfamous

RKing85 said:


> So torn on what to watch tonight.
> 
> This iPPV or the Bellator PPV.


This! Rampage and Tito aren't the same guys anymore.


----------



## Last Chancery

RKing85 said:


> So torn on what to watch tonight.
> 
> This iPPV or the Bellator PPV.


Why not both?


----------



## TripleG

That is bullshit. I ordered this PPV to see AJ Vs. Elgin one on one. I actually did want that one on one match.


----------



## captainzombie

Looks like we are getting a triple threat match tonight for the IWGP Title. Can't wait to see Elgin vs. Styles vs. Okada. Is it possible that Okada gets his belt back here tonight so AJ vs. Cole happens at BITW?


----------



## captainzombie

TripleG said:


> That is bullshit. I ordered this PPV to see AJ Vs. Elgin one on one.  I actually did want that one on one match.


I can understand the frustration, but I'll take this over the mess that is going on in TNA land. The lighting with some angles still looks a bit off here, hopefully it is not an issue at BITW.


----------



## Vårmakos

Liger is old and can barely move. There is a reason he is confined to tag matches for the most part. I'm not expecting much from his match with Adam Cole and I pray to Matt Hardy that he does not win it.


----------



## TripleG

The first two tag matches were...meh. 

That Lethal/Kushida match was pretty sweet though! 

Tag titles up next!


----------



## captainzombie

TripleG said:


> The first two tag matches were...meh.
> 
> That Lethal/Kushida match was pretty sweet though!
> 
> Tag titles up next!


Yeah, I agree with you. So far, I enjoyed Global Wars much more last week. Lethal vs Kushida was pretty good and I also enjoyed the Tag Titles match too.


----------



## TripleG

The tag title match was solid and fun. It had a nice brawling type of flavor to it. 

Steen Vs. Nakamura, for its crowd involvement and sick moves, was definitely fun to watch. I really enjoyed it.


----------



## C-Cool

Steen vs. Nakamura is my match of the night so far. And it was pretty quick too, surprisingly.

Or at least it felt quick to me.


----------



## Ham and Egger

Kushida/Lethal and Steen/Nakamura have been matches of the night so far.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Japanese Puroresu

Holy shit 5 stars


----------



## Laserblast

Bucks-Red Dragon - what a match!!


----------



## captainzombie

Laserblast said:


> Bucks-Red Dragon - what a match!!


So far, MOTN for me and I doubt the next two matches will top it.

The Liger theme is always so awesome.


----------



## TripleG

AWESOME Tag team match. Loved that! 

Nice video package for Liger!!!


----------



## Natecore

how does watching the replay work? I should get a VOD replay right? my feed is shot to shit at this point.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7

TripleG said:


> That is bullshit. I ordered this PPV to see AJ Vs. Elgin one on one. I actually did want that one on one match.


They have faced each other before on TV and will again next week.


----------



## captainzombie

Holy shit........Daniels returning to ROH and looks like Kaz right next to him.


----------



## Londrick

Really enjoyed the PPV. Been a long time since I liked every match of a wrestling show. Might be time to get back into indy and jap wrestling.


----------



## almostfamous

Wow... that was crazy.

Top 3 Matches:
1. Bucks v ReDragon 
2. AJ v Elgin v Okada
3. Steen v Nakamura


----------



## FITZ

Londrick said:


> Really enjoyed the PPV. Been a long time since I liked every match of a wrestling show. Might be time to get back into indy and jap wrestling.


My feelings exactly, I liked every single match which I rarely say about any card. 

We're driving home now and I had a great time. It reminded me of what ROH was like when I went to every show and loved going.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## BornBad

Young Bucks vs ReDragon stole the show

Awesome PPV


----------



## Proc

Just got back from the show, had a really fun time. If anybody reading this is on the fence of ordering the VOD/replay or not: YES! 

It wasn't the best show I have ever seen live but it is way up there. Really hope ROH gets some momentum for their return to (not internet) PPV


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Fun show, thanks to the NJPW crew (especially The Bullet Club), Steen (done with the company), The Bucks (lost the belts/will do less shows for the promotion), Fish/Kyle. 

Obviously, none of this gives me any hope for ROH's upcoming PPV. Their roster is still crappy and just got even crappier (Steen >>> Daniels/Kaz). 

On the other hand, I think NJPW is ready for solo shows in 2015. They made that show.

P.S. LOLBennett.


----------



## rohisawesome34

Last nights show sucked god for bid the idiot fans there could keep their mouth shuts about tna and the wrestlers too and I bet tna really cares roh is gonna go to the cyclones stadium in brooklyn in August roh will have thousands of empty seats just watch they'll come off looking really bad. I love tna tna owns roh been a die hard fan since 2006. I bet tna really cares about the idiot fans that chant that stuff those fans need a life real soon those fans will kill roh. Tna all 3 nights of impact next month combined will have more fans then last nights show did screw roh I wish I could change my name. I'm sitting front row for tna June 26th proud of it. Have fun watching an roh ppv that gets 100 buys on June 22nd lol. Daniels is back oh boy!!! Screw roh tna forever I'm officially done with ROH!


----------



## LBThrizzy

rohisawesome34 said:


> Last nights show sucked god for bid the idiot fans there could keep their mouth shuts about tna and the wrestlers too and I bet tna really cares roh is gonna go to the cyclones stadium in brooklyn in August roh will have thousands of empty seats just watch they'll come off looking really bad. I love tna tna owns roh been a die hard fan since 2006. I bet tna really cares about the idiot fans that chant that stuff those fans need a life real soon those fans will kill roh. Tna all 3 nights of impact next month combined will have more fans then last nights show did screw roh I wish I could change my name. I'm sitting front row for tna June 26th proud of it. Have fun watching an roh ppv that gets 100 buys on June 22nd lol. Daniels is back oh boy!!! Screw roh tna forever I'm officially done with ROH!


If you think last nights show sucked, you are an idiot.


----------



## FITZ

rohisawesome34 said:


> Last nights show sucked god for bid the idiot fans there could keep their mouth shuts about tna and the wrestlers too and I bet tna really cares roh is gonna go to the cyclones stadium in brooklyn in August roh will have thousands of empty seats just watch they'll come off looking really bad. I love tna tna owns roh been a die hard fan since 2006. I bet tna really cares about the idiot fans that chant that stuff those fans need a life real soon those fans will kill roh. *Tna all 3 nights of impact next month combined will have more fans then last nights show did* screw roh I wish I could change my name. I'm sitting front row for tna June 26th proud of it. Have fun watching an roh ppv that gets 100 buys on June 22nd lol. Daniels is back oh boy!!! Screw roh tna forever I'm officially done with ROH!


How is that something that's worth bragging about. "Our 3 shows will have more people than your 1 show so you suck!" That doesn't make any sense. 


The crowd was actually better behaved then normal last night. All of the idiots that walk up and buy tickets couldn't so everyone that was there really wanted to be there. The dumb chants were usually drowned out by the rest of the crowd. I felt liked I played a valuable role at the show as I booed loudly when the couple dozen morons did things like chant "CM Punk" or when a group tried to chant "Power Ranger" at Liger.

I loved the Bullet Club's reaction and I loved how they embraced it. When they cam out to start the show they got a reaction that conquering heroes get when they return home.


----------



## doctor doom

I'm so happy I went. Last night was the greatest LIVE wrestling show I've ever been to. The crowd was so into it. I think a lot of people didn't know what to expect with NJPW being there, I know the friend I went with didn't. He was blown away and now he wants to get into their product. Highlights were Kushida vs Lethal, Young Bucks vs Red Dragon, Steen vs Nakamura and the three way dance with Elgin Styles & Okada. Okada got amazing pops the entire night, but Nakamura and Kushida got the loudest chants. 

I don't know about the best show I've ever seen though. Super J Cup 1994 and Fully Loaded 2000 are also up there for me with this.


----------



## Beatles123

MTheBehemoth said:


> Fun show, thanks to the NJPW crew (especially The Bullet Club), Steen (done with the company), The Bucks (lost the belts/will do less shows for the promotion), Fish/Kyle.
> 
> Obviously, none of this gives me any hope for ROH's upcoming PPV. Their roster is still crappy and just got even crappier (Steen >>> Daniels/Kaz).
> 
> On the other hand, I think NJPW is ready for solo shows in 2015. They made that show.
> 
> P.S. LOLBennett.


I think you have to credit ALL involved for the event as a whole, Not just NJPW. ROH was just as involved.


----------



## BoothBayBruce

sat 5th row at the show last night for my first roh show live and had an amazing time. every match was great , the crowd was super into it and made the show even more fun.

props to everyone involved.


----------



## Lariatoh!

I have to see this show, sounds amazing.. and I saw pictures of Maria.. damn!!!!


----------



## MetalKiwi

Very good show! :clap


----------



## BlueRover

It was indeed a great show, the talent is way better than anything the WWE puts out, and so it the intensity of the fans. Shame its not bigger.


----------



## captainzombie

BlueRover said:


> It was indeed a great show, the talent is way better than anything the WWE puts out, and so it the intensity of the fans. Shame its not bigger.



I agree it's a shame they aren't on the national level. I'm interested to see how they build up Best in the World. They're going back to live PPV and if they can't get this right I just never see ROH getting any bigger than where they are at now. I enjoyed both NJPW shows a lot but the lighting and production left a lot to be desired. Even ECW in the 90s had better production for their ppvs so I hope Sinclair throws everything at the PPV.

It's funny I was watching some old WCW last night and Elgin reminds me so much of Fit Finlay in the looks dept when he first debuted for WCW. I have hopes for Elgin but he needs a better look. That mullet needs to go. Lol


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## NastyYaffa

Very good show. 2nd best wrestling show of the year, just behind WM30, imo.

Top-3 matches of the show:
1. Young Bucks vs. reDRagon
2. AJ Styles vs. Michael Elgin vs. Kazuchika Okada 
3. Kevin Steen vs. Shinsuke Nakamura.

I really enjoyed Briscoes vs. Bullet Club too. Really fun match.


----------



## Natecore

captainzombie said:


> I agree it's a shame they aren't on the national level. I'm interested to see how they build up Best in the World. They're going back to live PPV and if they can't get this right I just never see ROH getting any bigger than where they are at now. I enjoyed both NJPW shows a lot but the lighting and production left a lot to be desired. Even ECW in the 90s had better production for their ppvs so I hope Sinclair throws everything at the PPV.
> 
> It's funny I was watching some old WCW last night and Elgin reminds me so much of Fit Finlay in the looks dept when he first debuted for WCW. *I have hopes for Elgin but he needs a better look. That mullet needs to go. Lol
> *
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


No friggin way. That mullet makes Elgin. I truly get a "I don't get a f**k" vibe from him with his balding mullet. His work in the triple threat was stellar. One of the most inventive power men in wrestling. I loved his samoan drop/fall away slam on Styles and Okada.


----------



## Japanese Puroresu

captainzombie said:


> I agree it's a shame they aren't on the national level. I'm interested to see how they build up Best in the World. *They're going back to live PPV and if they can't get this right I just never see ROH getting any bigger than where they are at now.* I enjoyed both NJPW shows a lot but the lighting and production left a lot to be desired. Even ECW in the 90s had better production for their ppvs so I hope Sinclair throws everything at the PPV.
> 
> It's funny I was watching some old WCW last night and Elgin reminds me so much of Fit Finlay in the looks dept when he first debuted for WCW. I have hopes for Elgin but he needs a better look. That mullet needs to go. Lol
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App



Are you serious? They're only going to grow. With social media and iPPV's becoming more popular in the last year alone I wouldn't be surprised if the entire wrestling world gets a lot bigger in the next 5 years. More people are catching onto things online all the time. Nothing is guaranteed, and I;m not saying there is another boom coming. I'm just saying people seem to be negative perspective.


----------



## Libertine.

reDragon match was insane, enjoyed Nakamura Steen too. Just got the Cole and Styles matches left. Why is Bennett so under-appreciated?


----------



## BornBad

i expected more from Global Wars. imo Young Bucks vs Forever Hooligans vs Time Splitters and Cole Vs Steen were the best matches of the show


i'm starting watching the NY show... Corino and Kevin Kelly are sooooooooooooooo bad. Good lord

And who the fuck is that dude with the Green Lantern's shirt... that twat is on the front row and all the fuck he does is texting like he's covering the event for Wrestling Observer :fpalm


----------



## just1988

*I've stayed away from ROH for ages now but watched these 2 NJPW joint shows and thought the 2nd one especially was really good. Looking forward to seeing more between the 2 companies and will even go as far as to say, I'm looking forward to seeing more of ROH's big shows going forward.*


----------



## Chismo

Corino, Nigel, Kelly. I hate those guys. Words cannot express how much I hate those guys. I hate those guys so much. Three unprofessional cunts who do commentary for smarks. I hate those guys. Especially Nigel.


----------



## TNPunk

Best wrestling ppv's of the year so far


----------



## FITZ

4hisdamnself said:


> i expected more from Global Wars. imo Young Bucks vs Forever Hooligans vs Time Splitters and Cole Vs Steen were the best matches of the show
> 
> 
> i'm starting watching the NY show... Corino and Kevin Kelly are sooooooooooooooo bad. Good lord
> 
> And who the fuck is that dude with the Green Lantern's shirt... that twat is on the front row and all the fuck he does is texting like he's covering the event for Wrestling Observer :fpalm


That would be Green Lantern Fan. Generally considered to be an ass by all indy wrestling fans.


----------



## SOR

Beatles123 said:


> I think you have to credit ALL involved for the event as a whole, Not just NJPW. ROH was just as involved.


If not more.


----------



## KingCrash

Chismo said:


> Corino, Nigel, Kelly. I hate those guys. Words cannot express how much I hate those guys. I hate those guys so much. Three unprofessional cunts who do commentary for smarks. I hate those guys. Especially Nigel.


Corino would be fine if he called a match and then left. All show long is way too much. Don't know what you do about Kelly. Not every move Jay Lethal does is the Lethal Injection Kevin.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah Corino and Kelly were bad from what I heard. Didn't really hear Nigel but when he first started commentating a few years ago I thought he was good. Does he play more of a character now or something?


----------



## THE IHSOD

Should've been Kevin steen vs Aj styles vs Okada
And elgin shouldve won the title against cole and global wars
and defended it against jushin thunder liger
and maybe throw in cole to that match

i think elgin will win the roh whc soon
probably at bitw :mark: if he does


----------



## Cactus

Really enjoyed The War Of The Worlds show. I haven't seen a ROH since Final Battle 2012 and it's great to see how some of the guys have progressed and seeing the NJPW in a fresh environment. 

- Opener was solid stuff. Ciampa looked pretty good here. Very intense and reminded a tad bit of Cesaro. He just needs to have a bit more power behind his offense and he could be a star player in a few years. 

- Jado/Gedo's match was eh. Completely forgettable. Roderick Strong's still dull as dishwater. He is literally just a guy in tights who goes out there and wrestle. No personality and while people like Chris Benoit could pull could pull that off, Strong doesn't posses the dark charisma and intensity Benoit had. Lack of a Jado Flair flop also left me disappointed. 

- The TV Title match shocked me at how good it was. Both Jay Lethal and KUSHIDA fall into the category of guys who are technically okay and can work your typical back-and-forth match well enough but never give you anything more than that. I can happily say that they smashed my preconceptions of this match into pieces. Gripping match featuring flashy lightning-fast matwork, many believable near-falls and a very satisfying finish. 

- Nakamura/Steen let me down a deal as it seemed like a potential MOTYC on paper. Their charisma and mannerisms work well of each other, but something just didn't click right with me as an overall package. It's hard to explain. Good, not as great as I would of expected. 

- The crowd seemed to enjoy Tanahashi/Bennett well enough, but it's one of those match that seem better live. I'm going to go out and say the fans got more of a kick seeing Tanahashi in person than the actual workings of the match. Standard match with a decent finish.

- The tag match was easily the match of the night. Some of the spots if used in your typical WWE tag team would look absolutely ridiculous, and many seem to walk the thin line between 'fucking amazing' and 'fucking retarded', but god, it was just so much fun to watch. Epic spotfest in the best environment possible. 

- The ROH title match suffers from the same flaws as the Tana match. Most people are just happy enough to see the legendary Liger in person. He could of had a kip in the ring and many of fans would still be cheering for it. Enjoyable enough match.

- Main event was very enjoyable, once you get over the selling issues. Nothing spectacular, just your typical 3 way that you've probably seen many times over in many other indy promotions.


----------



## Chismo

Cactus said:


> Roderick Strongis literally just a guy in tights who goes out there and wrestle.


Best Roddy description ever. And I like Roddy very much.


----------



## Flux

Only watched the tag title match and Steen/Shinskay, but fuck... That guillotine/450 false finish was absolutely unbelievable, literally flipped my shit when Kyle kicked out. Perfect spotfest, IMO. Could have done without the Lawlor bullshit early on, though.


----------



## Gretchen

Watched War of the Worlds. Fun show, IMO. Enjoyed all these matches:

ACH, Matt Taven & Tommaso Ciampa VS Alex Koslov, Rocky Romero & Takaaki Watanabe - Really fun fast-paced match. 

Lethal/KUSHIDA - Very good match. Good back and forth contest which managed to keep me invested throughout its entirety. Good performance from both guys, was especially impressed by KUSHIDA. 

Bullet Club/Briscoes - Entertaining match. Loved the mannerisms from Mark. Briscoes are awesome. Really entertaining ending.

Kevin Steen/Nakamura - Liked it quite a bit. Also a good back and forth contest, and a few neat spots. 

Styles/Okada/Elgin - Liked this quite a bit, as well. Action throughout the match, both Okada and Elgin with some great moments in the match. Styles didn't do all too much during the match. Good match, anyway, and nice ending. 

Skipped over two matches of the matches on the card, both being tag matches. A couple of the singles matches I wasn't too impressed by.


----------



## FITZ

If one of those matches you skipped over was Bucks/reDragon you made a huge mistake.


----------



## Gretchen

Yeah, I skipped over Bucks/reDragon, but seeing all the good reviews, I do realize it was a mistake. I'll give it a watch later.


----------



## FITZ

As a general rule you should never skip over a Young Bucks tag match.


----------



## Gretchen

Watched it. Liked it a lot, really fun match.


----------



## Obfuscation

That rule is true. Even if their opponents are ones that you know can't keep up.


----------



## Joshi Judas

Wow RFWHC, NEVER skip a Young Bucks match on a show. Never :lol


----------



## LunchCombo

I'm sorry if I come off as a prick here but The Young Bucks are so overrated it's gross in my opinion. I LOVED TYB when I first saw them but all of their matches are the same. They are only good for super kicks and the tombstone and haven't a scent of any kind of psychology. Accompanied with the fact that they are entitled little douche bags in real life, I just don't like them heh

They are amazing if you only watch a handful of their matches a year or just appreciate spot fests


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## Chismo

Edit. Wrong thread.


----------



## Saber Rider ^-^

I really, really liked what Kyle O’Reilly did in that Young Bucks / reDRagon match. There's nothing like a good transition into a hook (submission) and O'Reilly is more then decent. He's got some definite potential there.


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## CrAvEnRaven

TaylorFitz said:


> As a general rule you should never skip over a Kyle O'Reilly match.


Fixed


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## Natecore

LunchCombo said:


> I'm sorry if I come off as a prick here but The Young Bucks are so overrated it's gross in my opinion. I LOVED TYB when I first saw them but all of their matches are the same. They are only good for super kicks and the tombstone and haven't a scent of any kind of psychology. Accompanied with the fact that they are entitled little douche bags in real life, I just don't like them heh
> 
> They are amazing if you only watch a handful of their matches a year or just appreciate spot fests


Ahh, the no psychology complaint. My favorite of all I've got nothing to say arguments. It's all up front what the Young Bucks are about to deliver: a super kick party! That's all the psychology you need b/c it's all they need to bring audiences in. What I love about a Young Bucks match is that they exist in their own microcosm on a card and pro wrestling at large. If anything I think their matches are the most progressive in the entire world. They've rewritten the rules on what people expect a match to be. What you call no psychology I call refreshing. Let other wrestlers find inventive ways to work the leg but I'm gonna enjoy every high spot TYB want to throw at me and go bananas for all 20 super kicks per match. There is no other act in wrestling like what Nick and Matt have created and it's awesome.

If you don't like them that's cool but its your loss if you don't watch the Bucks vs reDRagon match.


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## FITZ

CrAvEnRaven said:


> Fixed


:lmao 

I think the rule about O'Reilly is to skip unless he's wrestling someone that's great.


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## SAMCRO

I just can't get into a Mike Bennett match, sure he's a good asshole heel and gets heat cause he flaunts about having a hot girlfriend and takes shots at CM Punk but his wrestling is just meh. Mike Bennett just looks out of place in ROH, he looks like he belongs in WWE from his look to his wrestling. ROH is about great wrestling and yeah i get that his shtick is he was hyped to be this amazing wrestler and he turned out to be a fraud so to speak but when i watch ROH i wanna see great wrestling and you just don't get it from his matches. The only thing good about a Bennett match is looking at Maria's ass.


----------



## Japanese Puroresu

Natecore said:


> Ahh, the no psychology complaint. My favorite of all I've got nothing to say arguments. It's all up front what the Young Bucks are about to deliver: a super kick party! That's all the psychology you need b/c it's all they need to bring audiences in. What I love about a Young Bucks match is that they exist in their own microcosm on a card and pro wrestling at large. If anything I think their matches are the most progressive in the entire world. They've rewritten the rules on what people expect a match to be. What you call no psychology I call refreshing. Let other wrestlers find inventive ways to work the leg but I'm gonna enjoy every high spot TYB want to throw at me and go bananas for all 20 super kicks per match. There is no other act in wrestling like what Nick and Matt have created and it's awesome.
> 
> If you don't like them that's cool but its your loss if you don't watch the Bucks vs reDRagon match.


To be fair, poor ring psychology is a valid complaint. It's too bad that all their spots were set up perfectly and that's why they got the pops. If they didn't have ring psychology they wouldn't get those reactions.


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## FITZ

I think the Young Bucks are much better as heels. They wrestle smart as heels as well because they taunt and act like arrogant assholes while doing all of their cool stuff. As heels they are just these two little shitheads that you want to lose so badly and yet they win all the time.


----------



## Obfuscation

TaylorFitz said:


> :lmao
> 
> I think the rule about O'Reilly is to skip unless he's wrestling someone that's great.


That's usually the gist of it. Although I still thought he was his general bad self in the match against the Bucks. Looking very awkward. Not sold on the match how a lot of others seem to be.


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## CrAvEnRaven

Hayley Seydoux said:


> That's usually the gist of it. Although I still thought he was his general bad self in the match against the Bucks. Looking very awkward. Not sold on the match how a lot of others seem to be.


Yea but you think Nakumura isnt awkward.

Im not saying Nakumura is bad or O'Reilly is better i'm a fan of both. I just hate the fact that you cant call someone a good wrestler unless he has got the bandwagon behind him. Besides the fact that that he looks awkward adds to his appeal to me because it adds a legitimacy to his wrestling.


----------



## Obfuscation

:lmao


----------



## bigbuxxx

CrAvEnRaven said:


> Yea but you think Nakumura isnt awkward.


He is? I've loved him from the first time I saw him because he's different. I wouldn't call it awkward though. He has a gimmick, like most wrestlers. O'Reilly is terrible but I can only base that on what I've seen in PWG.


----------



## Last Chancery

LunchCombo said:


> I'm sorry if I come off as a prick here but The Young Bucks are so overrated it's gross in my opinion. I LOVED TYB when I first saw them but all of their matches are the same. They are only good for super kicks and the tombstone and haven't a scent of any kind of psychology. *Accompanied with the fact that they are entitled little douche bags in real life, I just don't like them heh*
> 
> They are amazing if you only watch a handful of their matches a year or just appreciate spot fests


:lmao


----------



## Chismo

So, there are actual people who never skip over a Kyle O'Reilly match. Wow.


----------



## CrAvEnRaven

You need to learn to not judge a wrestler based on what everybody else sees as good and start judging them based on how much you enjoy their matches, move sets etc.


----------



## Chismo

:lmao Yeah, I've totally never seen a Kyle O'Reilly match. Dude can't even apply a proper cross armbreaker, ffs. I feel for wrestlers who have to sell for his shit.


----------



## CrAvEnRaven

I cant wait to see the day when all you sheep jump on the bandwagon


----------



## Libertine.

I am an O'Reilly fan so I am totally going against the grain here. Thought that him and Gargano was the best match of Mystery Vortex II and actually thought he was great in the reDragon and Young Bucks encounter.


----------



## ROHFan19

Chismo said:


> :lmao Yeah, I've totally never seen a Kyle O'Reilly match. Dude can't even apply a proper cross armbreaker, ffs. I feel for wrestlers who have to sell for his shit.



For a guy that trains in BJJ every single week, I'm going to assume he knows how to apply a proper cross armbreaker. Sounds like most wrestlers think Kyle is the best on the Indies right now. Peers opinion>>>Chismo's opinion.


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## ROHFan19

Libertine. said:


> I am an O'Reilly fan so I am totally going against the grain here. Thought that him and Gargano was the best match of Mystery Vortex II and actually thought he was great in the reDragon and Young Bucks encounter.



It was, and he was the standout in that match. Kyle has great psychology and tells a damn good story in most of his matches. If only he did shooting stars and topes


----------



## Rah

We're down to arguing about Kyle being useless? Thought that was the topic for every PWG hype thread. 

Best consult my diary to get up to speed with recycled and pointless debates around here.


----------



## Obfuscation

Apparently he's the new _"can't talk bad about him"_ kind of guy to some folk. Was bound to happen.


----------



## ROHFan19

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Apparently he's the new _"can't talk bad about him"_ kind of guy to some folk. Was bound to happen.



What's so bad about him? Good in ring psychology, good storytelling, the character he portrays in reDRagon is great, he sells, etc. The best thing to ever happen to Kyle was Davey going to TNA...because Davey is/was fucking terrible and that rubbed off on Kyle IMO.


----------



## Chismo

ROHFan19 said:


> Sounds like most wrestlers think Kyle is the best on the Indies right now.


They were thinking the same of Davey Richards too.


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## ROHFan19

Chismo said:


> They were thinking the same of Davey Richards too.


Thank God I never heard/saw that stuff on Twitter. I remember Jimmy Jacobs saying Davey was better than Dynamite Kid and Eddie Guerrero...that's all thought. And that was the most laughable statement I think ever made when it comes to wrestling.


----------



## sharkboy22

ROHFan19 said:


> What's so bad about him? Good in ring psychology, good storytelling, the character he portrays in reDRagon is great, he sells.


:ti


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