# AEW is slowly killing themselves



## MoxAsylum (Jan 9, 2020)

Last year when AEW started I was fully invested. It felt like a different product entirely. Then slowly but surely egos started getting in the way and the product today is an absolute mess. Cody RHHHodes pretends he's a main eventer when he's clearly not. The young bucks are tiresome and their super kick spam fest is boring. Miro is an absolute joke. They need to stop putting geeks on the main show like Sonny Kiss, Marko Stunt, Nyla Rose, etc...I have no desire to watch currently and it's sad. The forced comedy is also atrocious. Jericho is tiresome and so is the inner circle. They've also managed to ruin MJF with this whole Jericho storyline mess....They need to get back to the way they started instead of this trash product today.


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## xlividevilx (Sep 24, 2020)

k


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## ReekOfAwesomenesss (Apr 6, 2012)

I blame this embarrassment.


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## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

AEW needs a new world champion for one, and that’s not happened until the January tv special at the earliest.

It needs stars other than Cody to hold/challenge for the TNT title. If Cody needs a world title, let him pursue either Omega`s Mega Championship or Cage`s FTW title. Or go to NJPW and challenge Naito or something. Even though Cody shouldn`t even need a title involved to have a storyline.

And it needs a new Dynamite Diamond Ring holder. Someone who can be consistently pushed and be on tv regularly, unlike MJF.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

So OP, I totally agree with you, as a matter of fact I'd say they're quickly killing themselves.

However, this thread isn't going to do anything or really change opinions. The loyalists who love everything are going to tell you that you're wrong, the people in between will say you're right in some of what you say and wrong in others whilst "haters" will completely agree with you.


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## sjm76 (Feb 23, 2017)

I agree with this post completely. AEW just keeps shooting themselves in the foot with questionable booking decisions, making wrestlers who should be taken seriously into comedy characters and trying to push the wrestlers who should be the comedy characters as serious threats.


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

There's a select bunch of things I would do differently, like how most of the Bucks/FTR feud was built up till now (I liked the beatdown angle which could better solidify heel/face roles), the women's division which is still pretty sparse (even with the lack of joshi women they should have a better plan), or the odd Miro/Sabian stuff (although I don't need Miro to be a monster heel, how many of those do you want after we had Cage, Archer, and Wardlow all do similar things). I also wish their doctors would get their shit together.

That being said, I generally enjoy the majority of the show, like Omega's new heel persona and the slow burn Hangman fued, the amazing Moxley/Kingston stuff, Cody in general has been great, I've enjoyed the tournament for the most part, they got a good bunch of great dudes cutting promos, etc. I feel like I can trust much more of what they do to be good or taken in a good direction over WWE.

It really seems like this place is vastly more critical and pessimistic towards the show than most places I read or post in. I highly doubt they're dying, I really don't know where that notion would come from apart from equating one's lack of enjoyment in the show meaning a ton of people don't like it.


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## MoxAsylum (Jan 9, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> So OP, I totally agree with you, as a matter of fact I'd say they're quickly killing themselves.
> 
> However, this thread isn't going to do anything or really change opinions. The loyalists who love everything are going to tell you that you're wrong, the people in between will say you're right in some of what you say and wrong in others whilst "haters" will completely agree with you.


You're right, just wish the egos would get out of the way


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

d


The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> There's a select bunch of things I would do differently, like how most of the Bucks/FTR feud was built up till now (I liked the beatdown angle which could better solidify heel/face roles), the women's division which is still pretty sparse (even with the lack of joshi women they should have a better plan), or the odd Miro/Sabian stuff (although I don't need Miro to be a monster heel, how many of those do you want after we had Cage, Archer, and Wardlow all do similar things). I also wish their doctors would get their shit together.
> 
> That being said, I generally enjoy the majority of the show, like Omega's new heel persona and the slow burn Hangman fued, the amazing Moxley/Kingston stuff, Cody in general has been great, I've enjoyed the tournament for the most part, they got a good bunch of great dudes cutting promos, etc. I feel like I can trust much more of what they do to be good or taken in a good direction over WWE.
> 
> It really seems like this place is vastly more critical and pessimistic towards the show than most places I read or post in. I highly doubt they're dying, I really don't know where that notion would come from apart from equating one's lack of enjoyment in the show meaning a ton of people don't like it.


This forum is the far most critical place about AEW anywhere. But it's fun to hear their sides. Personally, I think they should push Cody Rhodes to the moon. He feels like a star to many and should be competing with Moxley for the World Title. So I am in the minority here about that. I also think the Young Bucks are just fine. Not sure on the hate about them, they deliver great matches.

But, I do agree that people like Stunt & Kiss should be on Dark, never on Dynamite. Kiss needs to sharpen up, there is no hope for Stunt.


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## sjm76 (Feb 23, 2017)

TKO Wrestling said:


> d
> 
> This forum is the far most critical place about AEW anywhere. But it's fun to hear their sides. Personally, I think they should push Cody Rhodes to the moon. He feels like a star to many and should be competing with Moxley for the World Title. So I am in the minority here about that. I also think the Young Bucks are just fine. Not sure on the hate about them, they deliver great matches.
> 
> *But, I do agree that people like Stunt & Kiss should be on Dark, never on Dynamite. Kiss needs to sharpen up, there is no hope for Stunt.*


I agree. Kiss, Janela and Stunt do not belong on Dynamite. There are more deserving wrestlers on Dark that are left off of Dynamite in favor of those clowns.


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## Brad Boyd (Jan 28, 2020)

Miro is far from garbage but his character is garbage. He should be a monster villian like how he was portrayed in WWE yet hes a blonde haired video game geek teamed with that bland dweeb Sabian. AEW is flawed big time but I don't see it going under very soon. It may fall apart like TNA did one day though.


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## Piers (Sep 1, 2015)

MoxAsylum said:


> They need to stop putting geeks on the main show like Sonny Kiss, Nyla Rose


Interesting.


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## Awk (Sep 1, 2020)

That musical routine segment was the very moment I was like "wow, I'm too old for this shit... im embarrassed to be watching this".


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## sjm76 (Feb 23, 2017)

Brad Boyd said:


> Miro is far from garbage but his character is garbage. He should be a monster villian like how he was portrayed in WWE yet hes a blonde haired video game geek teamed with that bland dweeb Sabian. AEW is flawed big time but I don't see it going under very soon. It may fall apart like TNA did one day though.


This exactly. Orange Cassidy should be the guy doing geek skits with Kip Sabian and Miro should be having competitive matches with guys like Cody for the top titles.


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## Whoanma (Apr 5, 2016)




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## Scholes18 (Sep 18, 2013)

They’re ok. The biggest issue i see lately is they’re starting to get that WWE arrogance where if you dare criticize anything they do, the customer is ostracized and made to feel like they’re not wanted. WWE could get away with it due to being an established brand, AEW can’t.

look this is wrestling and everyone’s a critic, but they just think they’re always right. I’ll give a couple examples. Orange Cassidy is one. He splits opinion among fans, but he’s gone viral a couple times and has fans so I understand AEW featuring him. When everyone says they hate Marko Stunt and Sonny Kiss and your feature them because reasons, you’re just being stupid as a company.


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## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

After a fortnight of fairly lacklustre AEW shows I thought the last episode od Dynamite was superb, in ring action, promos and all six men on commentary were on point. Pay offs and story progression are all in sight. 

I'm happy with the AEW product and confident in its longevity. Between the four main US companies, NJPW and Stardom there's something out there for any wrestling fan.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

MoxAsylum said:


> Last year when AEW started I was fully invested. It felt like a different product entirely. Then slowly but surely egos started getting in the way and the product today is an absolute mess. Cody RHHHodes pretends he's a main eventer when he's clearly not. The young bucks are tiresome and their super kick spam fest is boring. Miro is an absolute joke. They need to stop putting geeks on the main show like Sonny Kiss, Marko Stunt, Nyla Rose, etc...I have no desire to watch currently and it's sad. The forced comedy is also atrocious. Jericho is tiresome and so is the inner circle. They've also managed to ruin MJF with this whole Jericho storyline mess....They need to get back to the way they started instead of this trash product today.


*It's really becoming WWE lite, and I mean the absolute worst of WWE. The last three shows have been dreadful.*


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> I blame this embarrassment.


I actually watched this match because I heard such good things about it, because “they did a squash.” Holy shit, Omega is so shit.

His knee is shitty. He looked panicked, not aggressive. His finisher was too elaborate. No psychology EVEN IN A MATCH THAT CONTAINED TWO MOVES!!!! HE’S THAT FUCKING BAD!!!!!

And then his face when he won. That one in the photo. He looks fucking bored, which is not the emotion to sell. And he looks like a fucking chump too. It’s muggy and stupid.

Fuck, I hate Kenny Omega as a performer so bad. He is _so_ off pitch it isn’t funny. He is not going to be able to carry Page even if he wants to and does his best. He constantly, consistently makes horrid choices. I have ZERO clue why some people consider him good, let the _best in the world._

Is he an exceptionally nice guy in real life or something? Because sometimes wrestlers give people points for being nice and take them away for being an asshole. If this guy were perceived by the “IWC” as an asshole, he’d be so maligned.

Two moves. Should have been one. Should have looked better. It was a jobber and you have one job. Then you look sadistic. He did NOTHING right.

Fuck, bdon, you’re a cool guy. Why do you love this talentless tosser so much?


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## Shleppy (Jul 6, 2020)

It was dead before it even started

Pro wrestling is dead


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## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

I´m seriously expecting a "Rise and fall of AEW" to be released in 5 years or so.


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## Botchy SinCara (Apr 24, 2013)

They are growing since the pandemic with toys and higher ups at tnt wanting to spread the brand ..but sure they are dying because you don't like some of the talent ...


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

yeahright2 said:


> I´m seriously expecting a "Rise and fall of AEW" to be released in 5 years or so.


Double or Nothing: The Fall of All Elite


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## Brad Boyd (Jan 28, 2020)

The Wood said:


> I actually watched this match because I heard such good things about it, because “they did a squash.” Holy shit, Omega is so shit.
> 
> His knee is shitty. He looked panicked, not aggressive. His finisher was too elaborate. No psychology EVEN IN A MATCH THAT CONTAINED TWO MOVES!!!! HE’S THAT FUCKING BAD!!!!!
> 
> ...


Omega has been fairly impressive to me in the ring, can't say much in terms of him in the charisma/promo skills department though. I feel like hes been hyped up as a main eventer but he doesn't seem to have that it factor to be a world champ.


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Just over a year ago I felt like we were getting an American version of NJPW carefully adapted for the weekly television format.

What we got was an alternative to WWE for tongue in cheek sports entertainment viewers who don't want to get bogged down with WWE's multiple brands and several hours of content.


My hope is, like WCW in the early to mid 90's, AEW finds its feet (post pandemic ).

My gut screams Global Wrestling Federation 2.0.


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## qntntgood (Mar 12, 2010)

MoxAsylum said:


> Last year when AEW started I was fully invested. It felt like a different product entirely. Then slowly but surely egos started getting in the way and the product today is an absolute mess. Cody RHHHodes pretends he's a main eventer when he's clearly not. The young bucks are tiresome and their super kick spam fest is boring. Miro is an absolute joke. They need to stop putting geeks on the main show like Sonny Kiss, Marko Stunt, Nyla Rose, etc...I have no desire to watch currently and it's sad. The forced comedy is also atrocious. Jericho is tiresome and so is the inner circle. They've also managed to ruin MJF with this whole Jericho storyline mess....They need to get back to the way they started instead of this trash product today.


The problem meltzer,and tony khan being damn mark allowing meltzer to be an advisor on the show.and yes meltzer let it slip out on his podcast,meanwhile guys like miro,archer,cage,brodie and a huge list of other are take a back seat for this craps.


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## qntntgood (Mar 12, 2010)

yeahright2 said:


> I´m seriously expecting a "Rise and fall of AEW" to be released in 5 years or so.


It maybe a lot sooner,with nxt being canceled first then aew.because the numbers aren't going up they are stagnant,and when that happened networks will start to take notice of it.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

TKO Wrestling said:


> d
> 
> This forum is the far most critical place about AEW anywhere. But it's fun to hear their sides. Personally, I think they should push Cody Rhodes to the moon. He feels like a star to many and should be competing with Moxley for the World Title. So I am in the minority here about that. I also think the Young Bucks are just fine. Not sure on the hate about them, they deliver great matches.
> 
> But, I do agree that people like Stunt & Kiss should be on Dark, never on Dynamite. Kiss needs to sharpen up, there is no hope for Stunt.


Actually it isn't. It's just more difficult to create an echo chamber on here and follow whoever you want. Twitter, Facebook etc. allows you to follow those people whose opinions mimic your own so you're not seeing a proper exchange of opinion, not that you see that here anymore either.


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## Shleppy (Jul 6, 2020)

"The Rise and Fall of AEW" will be a really good documentary on the WWE Network in a few years


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Chip Chipperson said:


> So OP, I totally agree with you, as a matter of fact I'd say they're quickly killing themselves.
> 
> However, this thread isn't going to do anything or really change opinions. The loyalists who love everything are going to tell you that you're wrong, the people in between will say you're right in some of what you say and wrong in others whilst "haters" will completely agree with you.


Well what good is an aew hate thread where every single problem has already been discussed ad nauseum?

Its just going to cause unnecessary fighting with snide comments. Discussing aews faults is no longer constructive its just a pissing contest and an excuse for haters to get away with insulting the fans of the product with troll loyalist comments and then the fans will say haters and no middle ground will be reached.

Threads like these are just an excuse for everyone to troll each other.

There's a reason I stick to what happens week to week. Because this feud has become so stupid


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

The Wood said:


> I actually watched this match because I heard such good things about it, because “they did a squash.” Holy shit, Omega is so shit.
> 
> His knee is shitty. He looked panicked, not aggressive. His finisher was too elaborate. No psychology EVEN IN A MATCH THAT CONTAINED TWO MOVES!!!! HE’S THAT FUCKING BAD!!!!!
> 
> ...


Got to agree to disagree here. His knee is usually really good, but Kiss just took the whole move badly. And his finisher is refreshing to me because yes it is elaborate but I'm so fucking sick of everyone using some variation of a kick or a knee as a finisher that its good sometimes to see a move like that. You can easily sell it as he already knocked out Sonny with the V Trigger and the finisher was just icing on the cake. 

His facial expressions are meh to me. A lot of people seem to love it. I can see why some might not, but he just looked like a dick with that face he was making. So mission accomplished there in my opinion. 

Overall to me, he's not anywhere near the best in the world, but he's AEW's Seth Rollins. Thats how I view him at least.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Firefromthegods said:


> Well what good is an aew hate thread where every single problem has already been discussed ad nauseum?
> 
> Its just going to cause unnecessary fighting with snide comments. Discussing aews faults is no longer constructive its just a pissing contest and an excuse for haters to get away with insulting the fans of the product with troll loyalist comments and then the fans will say haters and no middle ground will be reached.
> 
> ...


Don't worry, I don't have a crew or side in this


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Fuck. Even TNA isn't dead. I predict AEW will be here a while. Even if it's not a show that you like personally.


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## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

The Wood said:


> I actually watched this match because I heard such good things about it, because “they did a squash.” Holy shit, Omega is so shit.
> 
> His knee is shitty. He looked panicked, not aggressive. His finisher was too elaborate. No psychology EVEN IN A MATCH THAT CONTAINED TWO MOVES!!!! HE’S THAT FUCKING BAD!!!!!
> 
> ...


You’re just bitching just to bitch now.

His knee is supposed to be strong enough to daze someone, but not KO them. And its execution is far more believable than the Bucks superkicking everyone every five seconds and not getting three counts with them. Granted though, since most of the roster isn’t used to Japanese strong style, he should be able to give them a knee to the head and get the win with that.

His finisher is basically an elevated Michinoku driver that gets the three. Its elaborate because moves like the OG Michinoku driver (remember when that used to be considered a finisher?) gets kickouts at two. So why not elevate the opponent first before driving them down into the canvas?

He looked bored…that was the point! This is way too easy for him and in no way a challenge at all. Which is significant because Omega is used to a challenge. And you don`t have to look to Japan either. Jericho, PAC, CIMA and Moxley were all challenging for him in AEW.

His squash is a remarkable improvement from him having a 20 min match with a jobber earlier this year. This is the way it should be for him in regards to lesser talents, not that 50/50 crap like he`s in WWE.


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## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Verbatim17 said:


> You’re just bitching just to bitch now.
> 
> His knee is supposed to be strong enough to daze someone, but not KO them. And its execution is far more believable than the Bucks superkicking everyone every five seconds and not getting three counts with them. Granted though, since most of the roster isn’t used to Japanese strong style, he should be able to give them a knee to the head and get the win with that.
> 
> ...


Agreed completely

His finisher is too elaborate?.....gtfo that's the stupidest shit I've ever heard man lmfao.Homie is just crying maybe he had a rough week at work.


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## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

AEW was never going to be any different than a "WWE Lite" show, you'd have to be kidding yourself if you thought different, it's been like that all year. They claimed it would be different because they knew the smarky anti WWE brigade would hope onto that immediately. Pro wrestling itself is pretty niche now, so I think all fans have to just accept shows like NXT and AEW will forever stay around the 600-900k range and shows like RAW and SmackDown will max out at the early 2 millions. That's just how it is now, those viewers aren't gonna increase anymore


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

One winged Angel isn't even that elaborate? It has two steps: Electric Chair, sitout piledriver. It's pretty smooth IMO because he can hook the leg for the cover before impact. So that's actually one less step than most finishes, where you have to crawl over for the cover.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Verbatim17 said:


> You’re just bitching just to bitch now.
> 
> His knee is supposed to be strong enough to daze someone, but not KO them. And its execution is far more believable than the Bucks superkicking everyone every five seconds and not getting three counts with them. Granted though, since most of the roster isn’t used to Japanese strong style, he should be able to give them a knee to the head and get the win with that.
> 
> ...


No I’m not. I watched the match and am giving my feedback. It should have been one and done, but Kenny picks and unconscious guy up and finishes him with an electric chair into a driver. Duhhhh, just pin him? This is bush league shit.

Looking bored buries your tournament and it buries the guy (not that anyone should give a shit about Sonny Kiss). It’s the wrong emotion. Of course it was intentional: he is an idiot.

Him having a 20 minute match with a jobber was also very stupid. Congratulations, the list grows.

He’s AWFUL.


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Another issue is how long Tony Khan wants to play wrestling promoter. I mean, without wrestling making him rich Vince McMahon would still be a travelling salesman. Paul Levesque would be running a gym. The 24/7 bodybuilding and wrestling lifestyle is all they've known since their early 20's. They've seen low rent, difficult times and persevered. Even if WWE lost all their TV deals, had to fire 80% of staff and rely on the network- they'd still keep going.

Would Tony have the same enthusiasm to continue 52 weeks per year in 2025 if AEW's only TV offer was an ad paying slot on Pop TV?


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

DaSlacker said:


> Another issue is how long Tony Khan wants to play wrestling promoter. I mean, without wrestling making him rich Vince McMahon would still be a travelling salesman. Paul Levesque would be running a gym. The 24/7 bodybuilding and wrestling lifestyle is all they've known since their early 20's. They've seen low rent, difficult times and persevered. Even if WWE lost all their TV deals, had to fire 80% of staff and rely on the network- they'd still keep going.
> 
> Would Tony have the same enthusiasm to continue 52 weeks per year in 2025 if AEW's only TV offer was an ad paying slot on Pop TV?


That’s right, but it’ll be Shad’s call.


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## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

The Wood said:


> No I’m not. I watched the match and am giving my feedback. It should have been one and done, but Kenny picks and unconscious guy up and finishes him with an electric chair into a driver. Duhhhh, just pin him? This is bush league shit.
> 
> Looking bored buries your tournament and it buries the guy (not that anyone should give a shit about Sonny Kiss). It’s the wrong emotion. Of course it was intentional: he is an idiot.
> 
> ...


Maybe Kiss should have sold it like it knocked him out instead of just hurting his jaw. Just shows how green he is in the ring.

And Omega’s boredom has a hint of arrogance if you paid close attention to his expression. In a ‘look how good I really am, and this is going to be a cakewalk’ manner. Omega’s not burying the tournament at all. He’s subtly suggesting that he’s too good to be there and is going to win this thing with ease. It’s not about the tournament, it’s about who Omega really is as a wrestler. When he`s serious, this is the actual outcome.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

DaSlacker said:


> Another issue is how long Tony Khan wants to play wrestling promoter. I mean, without wrestling making him rich Vince McMahon would still be a travelling salesman. Paul Levesque would be running a gym. The 24/7 bodybuilding and wrestling lifestyle is all they've known since their early 20's. They've seen low rent, difficult times and persevered. Even if WWE lost all their TV deals, had to fire 80% of staff and rely on the network- they'd still keep going.
> 
> Would Tony have the same enthusiasm to continue 52 weeks per year in 2025 if AEW's only TV offer was an ad paying slot on Pop TV?


I reckon Tony loses interest when Jericho and The Elite get bored and bail.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Verbatim17 said:


> Maybe Kiss should have sold it like it knocked him out instead of just hurting his jaw. Just shows how green he is in the ring.
> 
> And Omega’s boredom has a hint of arrogance if you paid close attention to his expression. In a ‘look how good I really am, and this is going to be a cakewalk’ manner. Omega’s not burying the tournament at all. He’s subtly suggesting that he’s too good to be there and is going to win this thing with ease. It’s not about the tournament, it’s about who Omega really is as a wrestler. When he`s serious, this is the actual outcome.


I’m not defending Kiss, but the match was put together that way. I can see the arrogance — it’s still the wrong expression. Looking bored buries it. Not trying buries it. This was not an enhancement match — it was a tournament match with stakes.

God, this is why wrestling is so shitty. People justify this shit. There has to be a reason for things. There are a million ways to play arrogant. BORED that you move forward in a World Title tournament is bush league as fuck.

And where has this arrogance come from? It’s come out of nowhere. Didn’t he just lose a belt? He has zero clue as to WHY he does anything, and as a result he can somehow make six AWFUL decisions in a match that has TWO MOVES! 

This has just made me appreciate what a genius Gedo is and just how good Okada is. Kenny Omega is like...anti-good. All he can do well are the moves. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> I reckon Tony loses interest when Jericho and The Elite get bored and bail.


Jericho will probably go back to the WWE when his deal ends, which is...early 2022, no? That’ll be in time for WrestleMania. Hall of Fame induction and maybe a Mania match.

The Elite are riding this so bad. They’re going to make off like bandits, I bet. I think Omega has signed his last contract. He’ll take his money and fuck off to Canada to live in the woods. But he’s got until 2023, I think. The Bucks...hmm, one is a lot older than the other. But they can’t keep doing this flippy shit forever. Four years is a long time to do it. I can see them moving into an office job though. Cody will probably try acting more, but he’ll be around as long as he can.


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## .christopher. (Jan 14, 2014)

Geeee said:


> Fuck. Even TNA isn't dead. I predict AEW will be here a while. Even if it's not a show that you like personally.


TNA is a walking corpse. AEW will, at best, be one soon at this rate, too. Unless, by some miracle, they actually try to be a wrestling promotion instead of an outlaw circus.


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## JeSeGaN (Jun 5, 2018)

I liked the Kenny 'match', but that's probably because I like Kenny. It was a squash and the blame for the knee spot goes to Kiss, he took it very shity. Just shows ya that he has no place that high up the card.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Wood said:


> I’m not defending Kiss, but the match was put together that way. I can see the arrogance — it’s still the wrong expression. Looking bored buries it. Not trying buries it. This was not an enhancement match — it was a tournament match with stakes.
> 
> God, this is why wrestling is so shitty. People justify this shit. There has to be a reason for things. There are a million ways to play arrogant. BORED that you move forward in a World Title tournament is bush league as fuck.
> 
> ...


Plus there is a chance WWE gives that Mania back to Tampa since they got screwed this year where Jericho lives. Makes a lot of sense to give him a retirement match and HOF in the home town.


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## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> There's a select bunch of things I would do differently, like how most of the Bucks/FTR feud was built up till now (I liked the beatdown angle which could better solidify heel/face roles), the women's division which is still pretty sparse (even with the lack of joshi women they should have a better plan), or the odd Miro/Sabian stuff (although I don't need Miro to be a monster heel, how many of those do you want after we had Cage, Archer, and Wardlow all do similar things). I also wish their doctors would get their shit together.
> 
> That being said, I generally enjoy the majority of the show, like Omega's new heel persona and the slow burn Hangman fued, the amazing Moxley/Kingston stuff, Cody in general has been great, I've enjoyed the tournament for the most part, they got a good bunch of great dudes cutting promos, etc. I feel like I can trust much more of what they do to be good or taken in a good direction over WWE.
> 
> It really seems like this place is vastly more critical and pessimistic towards the show than most places I read or post in. I highly doubt they're dying, I really don't know where that notion would come from apart from equating one's lack of enjoyment in the show meaning a ton of people don't like it.


Finally some common sense ... agree wholeheartedly


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## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

TKO Wrestling said:


> d
> 
> This forum is the far most critical place about AEW anywhere. But it's fun to hear their sides. Personally, I think they should push Cody Rhodes to the moon. He feels like a star to many and should be competing with Moxley for the World Title. So I am in the minority here about that. I also think the Young Bucks are just fine. Not sure on the hate about them, they deliver great matches.
> 
> But, I do agree that people like Stunt & Kiss should be on Dark, never on Dynamite. Kiss needs to sharpen up, there is no hope for Stunt.


Perfectly said


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## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

DaSlacker said:


> Another issue is how long Tony Khan wants to play wrestling promoter. I mean, without wrestling making him rich Vince McMahon would still be a travelling salesman. Paul Levesque would be running a gym. The 24/7 bodybuilding and wrestling lifestyle is all they've known since their early 20's. They've seen low rent, difficult times and persevered. Even if WWE lost all their TV deals, had to fire 80% of staff and rely on the network- they'd still keep going.
> 
> Would Tony have the same enthusiasm to continue 52 weeks per year in 2025 if AEW's only TV offer was an ad paying slot on Pop TV?


Good post, Vince took the risk and it was Hulk Hogan that made him rich


----------



## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

They Call Him Y2J said:


> Interesting.


?


----------



## Piers (Sep 1, 2015)

Seth Grimes said:


> ?


I just believe it says a lot about 0P that he mentioned the only two transsexual wrestlers in the company.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

They Call Him Y2J said:


> I just believe it says a lot about 0P that he mentioned the only two transsexual wrestlers in the company.


Sonny isn't trans he's just gay and op listed heaps of people


----------



## 749129 (Oct 24, 2020)

Iam glad Punk didnt joined Aew


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

JeSeGaN said:


> I liked the Kenny 'match', but that's probably because I like Kenny. It was a squash and the blame for the knee spot goes to Kiss, he took it very shity. Just shows ya that he has no place that high up the card.


I think the idea of the squash was good. Once you get past Sonny Kiss existing in a wrestling context and being in a tournament for a World Title shot. There should be way more shorter matches. It’s good to keep fans on their toes, plus it can actually protect guys.

Great story: Someone I know once told me they were working for someone really smart about wrestling. They were the babyface and were scheduled to lose. The match was scheduled to go 12 minutes or something. This smart person came in and changed it. “Lose in 3.” They were so scared. They thought it was going to kill them. But you didn’t argue with this person. They knew best and you did it (remember those?).

They go out. Basically a squash, but instead of losing his over, this wrestler told me that everyone was concerned for them. He said he saw women crying and got get well cards. He then realised that because he never got his shit in, he actually got WAY more over than if he had and it didn’t work.

He said they came back with a rematch and it was the most he ever felt like a celebrity. He said that leading up to the match people kept pulling him over and wishing him luck and he was getting free lunches from delis and stuff, haha. All because he didn’t go out and work a regular match with someone.

I actually don’t know if this story is real and how much details have changed, but it felt real, it makes sense to me and it’s a nice old wrestling story anyway. There’s some wisdom in a good squash every now and then.

Anyway, back to this: Yeah, I’m not blaming Omega for the knee. I didn’t like there was anything past the knee (one of my pet peeves is when someone has a match won and then picks up an opponent — with some exceptions. If you knock a guy out, knock him out. I guess after the sloppy knee Kenny needed to do something though.

The One-Winged Angel is such a puroresu video game move that I feel you need to build to it. Forwards in time and not just at the end of the match.

And I don’t like his face. That’s part of selling. He didn’t sell it. But yeah, I’m no Omega fan.



CAPTAINAR said:


> Iam glad Punk didnt joined Aew


I bet he is too.

Seriously, can someone just give MLW $100 million, CM Punk, Brock Lesnar and a TBS deal. Then it can smoke AEW and all the “it’s a new brand and only so many people are watching wrestling” arguments can stop.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Great story: Someone I know once told me they were working for someone really smart about wrestling. They were the babyface and were scheduled to lose. The match was scheduled to go 12 minutes or something. This smart person came in and changed it. “Lose in 3.” They were so scared. They thought it was going to kill them. But you didn’t argue with this person. They knew best and you did it (remember those?).
> 
> They go out. Basically a squash, but instead of losing his over, this wrestler told me that everyone was concerned for them. He said he saw women crying and got get well cards. He then realised that because he never got his shit in, he actually got WAY more over than if he had and it didn’t work.
> 
> ...


What year was this? I love old time Aussie Wrestling stories.

Similar to your point here but I recently saw a match from a few years back. A local wrestler here in Australia that is about 50 now was born in Canada and trained under one of Stu Hart's kids and worked Stampede for a bit, eventually got to do a couple of job matches for the WWF and even got a few ECW appearances.

Whilst most wrestlers on the card that night were doing flips he went out there in his late 40's at the time with a body that would no doubt be failing him at this point and was working a popular junior heavyweight babyface, the vet was about 105-110 kilograms and he just went out there and told a story

Similar to what you wrote, the much larger wrestler beat the piss out of the smaller guy for 6-7 minutes. Arrogant little weak kicks to the head, not taking the kid seriously at all and the crowd were into it but the smaller guy didn't get one move in. The finish? A roll up allowing the babyface to win after the heel got too cocky for the occasion. Crowd went mental, best reaction all night.

Those two (Mainly the vet) had the crowd in the palms of their hands and without the vet really bumping at all (Certainly no stupid bumps) he not only got through the match but excelled. Why? Because he didn't give a fuck about getting his shit in or anything else he just went out and did his job as a wrestler.


----------



## Londonlaw (Sep 16, 2009)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I reckon Tony loses interest when Jericho and The Elite get bored and bail.


Which would be a shame, because given what has happened, what is happening, and where things seem to be going, that might be the making of the company.

Though I concede that they have all sewn themselves into the very fabric of the company, viewers would leave as well.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Chip Chipperson said:


> What year was this? I love old time Aussie Wrestling stories.
> 
> Similar to your point here but I recently saw a match from a few years back. A local wrestler here in Australia that is about 50 now was born in Canada and trained under one of Stu Hart's kids and worked Stampede for a bit, eventually got to do a couple of job matches for the WWF and even got a few ECW appearances.
> 
> ...


I couldn’t tell you the exact year, but I’m pretty sure it was late 60’s/early 70’s.

That’s a great story. It’s incredible what experienced workers can do with so little. One of Kevin Sullivan’s favourite points to bring up when talking about that stuff is “The Rock does more with one eyebrow than most people do with their entire match.” Or something of the like. For some reason, that really crystallises it for me.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Wood said:


> I actually watched this match because I heard such good things about it, because “they did a squash.” Holy shit, Omega is so shit.
> 
> His knee is shitty. He looked panicked, not aggressive. His finisher was too elaborate. No psychology EVEN IN A MATCH THAT CONTAINED TWO MOVES!!!! HE’S THAT FUCKING BAD!!!!!
> 
> ...


To be honest, I’m not sure what it was that initially hooked me, @The Wood . I obviously knew nothing of the guy prior to Dynamite starting. I’d mayyyyybe heard the name, but as someone who only opened YouTube and watched WWE highlights once every year just to know names, I knew nothing of Kenny Omega.

Dynamite premier, I was a Moxley fan, and I appreciated what the Bucks and Cody had done in creating All-In once I read the backstory of AEW.

The unsanctioned Light’s Out match was unreal. It looked fucking painful. It looked like what two mf’ers who hate each other would do. To discover that Brock had basically laughed at Moxley for suggesting the same thing pissed me off to no end. Nothing I can’t stand more than someone thinking they’re above the business. And no matter how great Brock CAN be, he isn’t above the business. Fuck that BS.

Secondly, and maybe more important, is that the flow of a match doesn’t tend to have any hiccups with Omega. Everything just flows from one sequence into the next magnificently. And whether you agree or not, he puts thought into the emotion of the match, so much that you find MORE shit on the 2nd and 3rd viewing.

I am not a fan of watching Brock Lesnar and Roman Reigns do a 5-10 minute match with each doing the same goddamn move over and over. FIVE F-5s? Or was it 6 to put Roman away? Really? PsYcHoLoGyyyyy. Goddamn crowd is booing that stupid shit.

You like what you like. I’ll like what I like. I don’t need 2 million fans to agree with me, so I certainly don’t need you to agree. And I love ya dude, but I shit on Cody rHHHodes without your approval (until you finally saw the light) and will continue to find genius in Omega’s style, even if it is absolutely nothing like traditional wrestling.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Why hasn’t Gedo and Okada captured the hearts and minds of the wrestling world since Omega? Why hasn’t Jay White or Will Ospreay received such acclaim or been able to work a match with Okada like that?


----------



## SayWhatAgain! (Jul 25, 2016)

It’s really camp & corny, like, even more corny than WWE. If people are into that then cool, it’s just not for me.


----------



## Piers (Sep 1, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Sonny isn't trans he's just gay and op listed heaps of people


The two only LGBT wrestlers then.

Heaps ? He called only three people geeks, those two and Stunt.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

What I will say is that match that got 6 stars caught my interest so I tried to watch it and quite literally fell asleep. Admittedly it was late at night after work but I lasted until about the time The Bucks ran interference on the match and fell asleep.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

bdon said:


> Why hasn’t Gedo and Okada captured the hearts and minds of the wrestling world since Omega? Why hasn’t Jay White or Will Ospreay received such acclaim or been able to work a match with Okada like that?


Omega vs. Okada is one of the greatest series of matches ever and while I consider Okada the GOAT, Kenny definitely played a big part in it.

Kenny also had incredible singles matches with Naito, Goto, Ishii, SANADA, ZSJ, Tanahashi and others. I also thought his match with Cody a couple of years ago was great too.

We've not really seen the long singles guy Omega yet in AEW, but it's coming. I much prefer him in long singles matches, because when he does a sprint he just seems to cram all his big spots in and comes off as being spotty. He's much better than that.

Honestly, in future I hope AEW creates its own version of the G1. Put Omega, Mox, Cody, Page, MJF, PAC, Cage, Darby, Starks, Sammy, Miro, Penta, Fenix into a round-robin tournament and you'll have banger after banger.


----------



## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

The Wood said:


> I’m not defending Kiss, but the match was put together that way. I can see the arrogance — it’s still the wrong expression. Looking bored buries it. Not trying buries it. This was not an enhancement match — it was a tournament match with stakes.
> 
> God, this is why wrestling is so shitty. People justify this shit. There has to be a reason for things. There are a million ways to play arrogant. BORED that you move forward in a World Title tournament is bush league as fuck.
> 
> ...


Wrestling isn’t shitty because of attempts to give it meaning and make things make sense. Wrestling is shitty to others because it doesn’t fit their vision of wrestling.

And Omega doesn’t care about the tag belts. He never really did. Even though he has lots of tag experience, he a singles guy now, and has been for several years. The tag belt just kept him on tv every week as opposed to him being lost in the shuffle after his feud with PAC ended and Omega lost to Moxley. And it would be worse for Omega to be lost in the shuffle since he’s a major international star. That’s his billing and why he was brought into AEW to begin with. Omega was just biding his time to go back to main event status.



The Wood said:


> The One-Winged Angel is such a puroresu video game move that I feel you need to build to it. Forwards in time and not just at the end of the match.


And if he beats Adam Page with just one move – the One Winged Angel – at Full Gear, he’ll have people talking for days. More than if he had a workrate match with him.



bdon said:


> Why hasn’t Gedo and Okada captured the hearts and minds of the wrestling world since Omega? Why hasn’t Jay White or Will Ospreay received such acclaim or been able to work a match with Okada like that?


Okada is helping to build NJPW back up after the second exodus of talents in a five year span; the Elite was the second exodus, while AJ Styles, the Good Brothers & Nakamura were the first. That means Okada has to step out of the main event scene for the time being while Gedo builds the next group of NJPW main event stars in White, Ospreay, ZSJ, Ibushi, Taichi, Evil & Sanada. And Naito is basically helping Okada too this time. There’s also been a greater focus on the UK instead of America ever since Omega left. And this is to be expected, since the Elite leaving halted NJPW’s plans for American expansion.

Jay White is praised for being ahead of the curve in ring psychology, like MJF is praised for his mic work. And like MJF, White’s work isn’t for everyone. The only difference is that NJPW already pulled the trigger on White being champion, while MJF is still waiting. Maybe MJF should win the AEW title off Tanahashi, like White won the IWGP heavyweight title off Tanahashi.

Even though #Speakingout has dulled his momentum for now, Will Ospreay has had classic after classic with Okada. And he’s going to again at WK15 this year. If you watched the G1 30 Block A finals, you know why Ospreay vs Okada is happening at Tokyo Dome this year.


----------



## JeSeGaN (Jun 5, 2018)

The Wood said:


> The One-Winged Angel is such a puroresu video game move that I feel you need to build to it. Forwards in time and not just at the end of the match.


Hm, build how? Like a percentage gauge, or what?

But hey, not everyone likes the same wrestlers. Kenny is my favorite, but boy do I ever hate the Bucks and Cody rHHHodes. Finding something you like among the huge piles of mediocrity is a nice feeling, mate.


----------



## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

I certainly hope note. Wednesday night (Thursday morning where I live) is the highlight of my weekly tv viewing


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

The Wood said:


> Double or Nothing: The Fall of All Elite


With a picture of Cody smashing the throne front and center of the poster, Jericho in the mimosa pool at the bottom, an unconscious Matt Hardy on one side, with the Bucks on the other.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Geeee said:


> Fuck. Even TNA isn't dead. I predict AEW will be here a while. Even if it's not a show that you like personally.


It's not dead, but it's used up nearly all its lives, it was on life support for a year or so, but seems to be coming back slowly.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I reckon Tony loses interest when Jericho and The Elite get bored and bail.


I reckon there will be a big controversy which rocks them before long. The Hardy concussion, botched chair shot, Sammy/Sasha, Jimmy Havoc sexual abuse allegations, Darby/Homeles abuse, Darby daredevil stunts, Excalibur racism, JR sexist comments, Jericho allegations, Kylie Rae mystery,


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

DaveRA said:


> I certainly hope note. Wednesday night (Thursday morning where I live) is the highlight of my weekly tv viewing


Don't worry, there is no evidence AEW is going away any time soon. There is a _lot_ of projecting and fantasy fiction going on in these parts from those who want their 'I told you so' moment and those who have been brought up in the WWE monopoly and can't fathom anything else succeeding.

Their main income source right now is from TV. And despite what people say, their TV ratings are fine and beyond TNT's expectations. People jump on the ratings dropping to 753k (which is barely less than the 10/30/19 edition when Dynamite was still fresh and new!) without realising a). that's still better than every rating they did from April 10 to June 15, b). the main demo is still very consistent at .30 after dropping to .22 in June. This week, they ranked #13 in the top 150 cable shows for the 18-49 demo, which is important. Their contract runs until 2023 and with their current numbers, they are going to continue on TV, most likely with TNT but there may be other bidders.

As long as AEW remains sensible with outlay, not handing out millionaire contracts willy nilly like WCW did (where you had guys who NEVER did anything like Lanny Poffo sitting at home for five years banking millions), then they should be fine.

The quality of the programming is completely subjective, despite what some on here would have you believe. Some think it's the worst thing out there, others think it's the best thing out there. One man's trash is another man's treasure and vice versa.

Moreover, AEW has a very talented roster so even if they dig themselves into a hole at some point, there will be ways out. Let's think of the worst case scenario, money hemorrhaging from the company - even then there is still a possible fix because they are owned by the 61st richest man in America and his son is a massive wrestling fan who grew up watching it all. So him 'getting bored' is again, more a case of people projecting than reality. He'd more likely be Ted Turner, who was a wrestling fan who never would have let WCW die if not for the Time Warner/AOL merger taking it out of his hands.

Fulham FC, owned by Shahid Khan, posted a £20.2m ($26.5m) loss for the 2018/19 season (their latest financial report released this year), which is manageable when you're at that sort of financial level. AEW is nowhere near that sort of money sink. The last time we had any sort of info was in April when a 'small profit' was reported.

The main threat to AEW any time soon would be if the cable genre were to collapse or something else totally out of their control (Tony Khan sex scandal or some crazy shit like that). But even in the pandemic era there is no sign of major problems (0 releases on financial grounds for example despite there being a lot of expendable talent at the bottom of the card) and this is the era that is threatening more businesses and industries than at any point in recent history.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

If AEW dies, then all life and hope will have been squeezed out of wrestling until VKM dies.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

I just love JR spitting facts and the kids dont care. Its fascinating that they dont wanna change. Change and perspective is always important for someone in any form of 
business.


Look at every successful actor, they all talk about growth and always trying to improve and change. Athletes do the exact same.

Somehow the wrestling industry fell off the wheels of logic


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

If I remember where AEW was when Dynamite started, not gonna lie, they had problems but it was a cool show to watch. I feel like the pandemic has hurt them more than the WWE. Cause WWE was lifeless before and they are about the same but AEW was much better at the time. I remember the stuff like the Cody-MJF feud with the whiping and so forth, I had never seen something like this before on a major promotion. But for whatever reason, at some point, TK started to lose sight of the ball and the inmates took over the asylum. I think the booking has been atrocious for quite a while now. And they keep stepping on banana peel. I wish there was an end to the madness in sight.


----------



## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

Geeee said:


> If AEW dies, then all life and hope will have been squeezed out of wrestling until VKM dies.


Japan, Mexico, UK, Canada, Australia, India, Puerto Rico, wherever

I love AAA have no idea what they are on about mind, but the action and feel is fantastic, who needs Vince?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

bdon said:


> To be honest, I’m not sure what it was that initially hooked me, @The Wood . I obviously knew nothing of the guy prior to Dynamite starting. I’d mayyyyybe heard the name, but as someone who only opened YouTube and watched WWE highlights once every year just to know names, I knew nothing of Kenny Omega.
> 
> Dynamite premier, I was a Moxley fan, and I appreciated what the Bucks and Cody had done in creating All-In once I read the backstory of AEW.
> 
> ...


Everything flowing in terms of moves is why I don’t like the modern style. It’s too smooth when you want to see some rough edges cut something up. And I believe, wholeheartedly, that this is a big part of why a lot of people have switched off to wrestling.

Brock Lesnar is the best worker in the world. I don’t think this can be debated. You might like someone more or prefer a more niche style, but you can’t say that Jim Duggan was better than Hulk Hogan in your heart of hearts.

Hey, I thought Brock/Roman sucked too. That one, anyway. 2015 was awesome. You know who else thought it sucked? Brock. He threw the belt at Vince after the match. But you’re choosing a rare botch there. Brock/Cena, Brock/Goldberg, Brock/Punk, Brock/Bryan, Brock/Styles, Brock/Balor. They’re all fucking ace.

And what a WrestleMania crowd thinks these days doesn’t impress me. That’s a big problem in the industry.

Hey, you enjoy him, man. That’s your right. I just feel in my bones that he doesn’t get this. He can wink at one segment of the audience, but thats



bdon said:


> Why hasn’t Gedo and Okada captured the hearts and minds of the wrestling world since Omega? Why hasn’t Jay White or Will Ospreay received such acclaim or been able to work a match with Okada like that?


New Japan business went up since Kenny left. I think White is better than Omega. Ospreay I haven’t seen enough of recently (used to hate the guy).

The “acclaim” guys get in the Observer or on message boards can give people a false read. And why hasn’t Omega been able to capture hearts and monds



Verbatim17 said:


> Wrestling isn’t shitty because of attempts to give it meaning and make things make sense. Wrestling is shitty to others because it doesn’t fit their vision of wrestling.
> 
> And Omega doesn’t care about the tag belts. He never really did. Even though he has lots of tag experience, he a singles guy now, and has been for several years. The tag belt just kept him on tv every week as opposed to him being lost in the shuffle after his feud with PAC ended and Omega lost to Moxley. And it would be worse for Omega to be lost in the shuffle since he’s a major international star. That’s his billing and why he was brought into AEW to begin with. Omega was just biding his time to go back to main event status.
> 
> ...


There’s so much to unpack here, I just don’t think I have the energy right now. I’m pretty sure I know why wrestling is shitty, and I don’t think it’s why you think it is. There’s a number of reasons, and we saw that Variety article recently. This vision is the one that’s not working.

And I don’t even know where to go with “Omega not caring.” It doesn’t make ANY sense! That’s the fucking point! A guy sitting back, wasting his best professional years and not caring is NOT a good story. Being bored by your own shit, the shit that is supposed to matter, buries it.

If you’re trying to make someone feel special, do you ignore them? 



Geeee said:


> If AEW dies, then all life and hope will have been squeezed out of wrestling until VKM dies.


I am hopeful for other investors or Vince to get bored. That’s the only hope I’ve got left.


----------



## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

The Wood said:


> There’s so much to unpack here, I just don’t think I have the energy right now. I’m pretty sure I know why wrestling is shitty, and I don’t think it’s why you think it is. There’s a number of reasons, and we saw that Variety article recently. This vision is the one that’s not working.
> 
> And I don’t even know where to go with “Omega not caring.” It doesn’t make ANY sense! That’s the fucking point! A guy sitting back, wasting his best professional years and not caring is NOT a good story. Being bored by your own shit, the shit that is supposed to matter, buries it.
> 
> If you’re trying to make someone feel special, do you ignore them?


Well, I was referring to others reasonings, not the state of wrestling in general. I have not interest to continue to dwell on how wrestling turned into the state that it became. I have other things to think about.

As for Omega, simply put, he cared more about his friends (teaming with them to focus on Stadium Stampede) than he did about his singles career (he was ranked #3 for the world title weeks before DoN 2020). Afterwards, he focused on the tag belts with his partner and friend, who is also a noted singles wrestler. And he’s only been in this state because of a rough 2019 in terms of his singles career, capped off by a loss to Moxley at Full Gear last year. Combine that with a lack of challengers for the AAA Mega Championship that he holds, and its more of a reason to him to ignore his singles career. No one else cares either, regardless if they are friends, enemies, or friendly competition.

All Out 2020 is the change, when he realizes that he has to start looking out for himself. Refusing to comment of his partnership during interviews reflect that. His elaborate entrance and squash of Kiss this past Wednesday, is a continuation of that change.

The storytelling makes sense. AEW just hasn’t explained it very well to viewers who haven’t been following closely or are new viewers. Although, IDK if they expect that they have to.

And no, you don’t ignore someone if you want them to feel special. However, just because someone gets ignored does not necessarily mean that they are not cared about or not special either.


----------



## 749129 (Oct 24, 2020)

I 


The Wood said:


> I bet he is too.
> 
> Seriously, can someone just give MLW $100 million, CM Punk, Brock Lesnar and a TBS deal. Then it can smoke AEW and all the “it’s a new brand and only so many people are watching wrestling” arguments can stop.


Even if someone gives MLW $100 million what about the promoter? 
We know what Dixie Carter did,We know what Eric Bischoff did.
We need some promoter or businessman who is not only innovative but manages the wrestlers as well.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

CAPTAINAR said:


> I
> 
> 
> Even if someone gives MLW $100 million what about the promoter?
> ...


Court Bauer owns it, he has history in the WWE as a writer so he knows how to deal with wrestlers.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Everything flowing in terms of moves is why I don’t like the modern style. It’s too smooth when you want to see some rough edges cut something up. And I believe, wholeheartedly, that this is a big part of why a lot of people have switched off to wrestling.
> 
> Brock Lesnar is the best worker in the world. I don’t think this can be debated. You might like someone more or prefer a more niche style, but you can’t say that Jim Duggan was better than Hulk Hogan in your heart of hearts.
> 
> ...


I love you, bro. You and I don’t always agree, but I enjoy your perspective. And honestly, it may be a lot of Kenny’s Steve Borden mentality of protecting his character from Vince. Probably a lot of it, because I can’t honestly say it isn’t. His style is not my typical favorite.

But I really do appreciate Kenny’s M. Night Shyamlan style of hidden details. Probably the best way to describe Kenny matches. Very hit or miss for the crowd.

Does that make sense?


----------



## KingofKings1524 (Aug 27, 2007)

the_flock said:


> I reckon there will be a big controversy which rocks them before long. The Hardy concussion, botched chair shot, Sammy/Sasha, Jimmy Havoc sexual abuse allegations, Darby/Homeles abuse, Darby daredevil stunts, Excalibur racism, JR sexist comments, Jericho allegations, Kylie Rae mystery,


I reckon they’ll be out of business by next week! How this shitty company lasted longer than a few months is absolutely mind boggling!


----------



## omaroo (Sep 19, 2006)

Dying, I dont know.

But becoming a glorified indy fed like impact has become yes that I can see.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

CAPTAINAR said:


> I
> 
> 
> Even if someone gives MLW $100 million what about the promoter?
> ...


You’re 100% right. I like the current regime at MLW. Court Bauer is close to the Samoans. It wouldn’t be weird for him to bring in some of those boys to troubleshoot the locker-room.

MSL is COO there. I always liked him, even if I think he considers himself way smarter than he is. He at least thinks wrestling works best when it looks like a fight. His mentors in wrestling were Larry Zbysko, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall and Kevin Sullivan.

Dr. Tom was agenting there. Cornette has a great relationship with them. Savio Vega is apparently there. I would trust it not to become a sports entertainment product.

And I hope we do get an investor who just misses wrestling that looked like what they used to like. This is how Smoky Mountain got started. Rick Rubin saw WCW go to shit with The Ding Dongs, so he met with Cornette and asked him to do wrestling so there was something he personally liked out there. And SMW only went out of business because TV changed and people started paying for slots, and promotions couldn’t survive without TV then.



bdon said:


> I love you, bro. You and I don’t always agree, but I enjoy your perspective. And honestly, it may be a lot of Kenny’s Steve Borden mentality of protecting his character from Vince. Probably a lot of it, because I can’t honestly say it isn’t. His style is not my typical favorite.
> 
> But I really do appreciate Kenny’s M. Night Shyamlan style of hidden details. Probably the best way to describe Kenny matches. Very hit or miss for the crowd.
> 
> Does that make sense?


It makes sense, and you tell ‘em, bdon. For whatever it’s worth, I think M. Night only had one or two good movies as well. ;-)


----------



## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

They Call Him Y2J said:


> I just believe it says a lot about 0P that he mentioned the only two transsexual wrestlers in the company.


Yeah, you're right. Transsexual wrestlers are beyond critique. If anyone ever says anything bad about them, it can't be because they suck, it's because they're a transphobe.


----------



## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

They Call Him Y2J said:


> The two only LGBT wrestlers then.
> 
> Heaps ? He called only three people geeks, those two and Stunt.


He must hate short people, too. Cause he named only short people. Damn, you really found him out!


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Geeee said:


> If AEW dies, then all life and hope will have been squeezed out of wrestling until VKM dies.


In North America alone you would still have WWE, NXT, NXT UK, Impact, MLW, ROH, NWA, and loads of others.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

the_flock said:


> In North America alone you would still have WWE, NXT, NXT UK, Impact, MLW, ROH, NWA, and loads of others.


You’re right, but people do want something with a bit of scope and accessibility. Watching rinky dink stuff (and I like some of those products) can be depressing in its own way. For some people, I mean.


----------



## Piers (Sep 1, 2015)

Seth Grimes said:


> Yeah, you're right. Transsexual wrestlers are beyond critique. If anyone ever says anything bad about them, it can't be because they suck, it's because they're a transphobe.


I never said that, that's on you. I just said it was interesting.


----------



## Runaway (Feb 14, 2020)

AEW's biggest mistake was putting the "sports" line in their press release. Without that, I'm convinced there wouldn't be half the crying from edgelords and phoney Cornette's whenever they do a bit of sports entertainment.

It's funny how some typical prowrestling shlock (Jericho/MJF) is on the receiving end of forced outrage, when the same show had an unconscious man lying in the middle of the ring for three minutes while 7-8 guys danced around and ignored him. _That's_ what AEW should be dragged for. They're developing a pattern of negligence for all to see. Not good.


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## Bazinga (Apr 2, 2012)

Decent pool of talent bein’ booked by marks with over-inflated egos. 

Cody & Khan are today’s Dixie & Jarrett.

Reign these guys in, add some structure, book 10 guys at a time instead of 30 and get back to basics. If somethin’ ain’ workin’ drop it and move on.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Runaway said:


> AEW's biggest mistake was putting the "sports" line in their press release. Without that, I'm convinced there wouldn't be half the crying from edgelords and phoney Cornette's whenever they do a bit of sports entertainment.
> 
> It's funny how some typical prowrestling shlock (Jericho/MJF) is on the receiving end of forced outrage, when the same show had an unconscious man lying in the middle of the ring for three minutes while 7-8 guys danced around and ignored him. _That's_ what AEW should be dragged for. They're developing a pattern of negligence for all to see. Not good.


I actually disagree. That line is a great thing for people to point to and display them as liars, but people would still hate this if it were just there. It’s why they don’t like WWE.

Oh man, where is that poster who used to go around making fun of people because he thought they wanted AEW to be like WWE? He used to call it “AEWWE.” Fantastic. I hope they’re happy with their product.

The negligence is bad though. AEW are being dragged through the mud for it though. And rightfully so.


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## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

They Call Him Y2J said:


> I never said that, that's on you. I just said it was interesting.


Yes, because you commenting on it, totally isn't trying to slyly insinuate that.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

the_flock said:


> In North America alone you would still have WWE, NXT, NXT UK, Impact, MLW, ROH, NWA, and loads of others.


You have not listed any hopeful wrestling programs.

WWE: I grew up on WWE but this shit is depressing.
NXT/NXT UK: Good shows but it's not worth getting invested in anyone because of the end destination
Impact: also depressing. Barely alive.
MLW, ROH: developmental shows. Success of the talent ultimately decided by the programs above them
NWA: was actually a cool concept but sexual assault scandals and then covid-19 have basically killed it

TBH I would rather play a video game or watch youtube or something than any of these wrestling shows


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

They are a year old and have already lost half their initial audience and have made some really big mistakes. There is nothing slow about how quickly AEW is killing itself.


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## Th0roughbred (Dec 20, 2011)

If AEW made a wrestling show too cater to only purist wrestling fans they'd be dead in a year. Cause wrestling is a dying product. They are a new company and have to think outside the box. Too build a brand. It's a year old company for fucks sake. Takes time to find a footing. And some of their shit might seem cringe to some, but seriously wrestling always been silly as fuck. I remember watching shit in WWE in the 90's I loved that looking back I find ridiculous and corny. And we shit in WWE for doing the same shit over and over so shouldn't hate new things. I might be wrong but that's my opinion.
I enjoy the shit they do.


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## headstar (May 16, 2012)

Just based on the fact that Time Warner fired Kevin Reilly from his power position, it seems AEW is living on borrowed time.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Th0roughbred said:


> If AEW made a wrestling show too cater to only purist wrestling fans they'd be dead in a year. Cause wrestling is a dying product. They are a new company and have to think outside the box. Too build a brand. It's a year old company for fucks sake. Takes time to find a footing. And some of their shit might seem cringe to some, but seriously wrestling always been silly as fuck. I remember watching shit in WWE in the 90's I loved that looking back I find ridiculous and corny. And we shit in WWE for doing the same shit over and over so shouldn't hate new things. I might be wrong but that's my opinion.
> I enjoy the shit they do.


Can we please stop trying to sell stuff like this. They lost half their viewers. Conversation around them has become increasingly negative. There’s doing something different to fill a gap in the market and doing something different without any idea as to what you’re doing.


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## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

Bazinga said:


> Decent pool of talent bein’ booked by marks with over-inflated egos.
> 
> Cody & Khan are today’s Dixie & Jarrett.
> 
> Reign these guys in, add some structure, book 10 guys at a time instead of 30 and get back to basics. If somethin’ ain’ workin’ drop it and move on.


It's a very fair feeling and the defending from AEW themselves is incredible

There are 19 Women wrestlers on the AEW roster page for at maximum four matches over Dark and Dynamite
That goes from decent worker to potentially good to absolutely godamn awful
Currently the only angle happening is Brandi against Anna Jay and that is tenous, you could say the Bunny return or Tay Conti joining Dark Order but they are even more tenous

I'd love a job booking the Womens division, what does it pay? I mean Kenny cant say Im putting 30 hours of week into this bad boy


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## .747925 (Sep 2, 2020)

Garbage how often Jericho is front and centre. Fat and almost 50. If you'd told me a year and half ago that's what AEW would be my interest would've flatlined.


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## .747925 (Sep 2, 2020)

Awk said:


> That musical routine segment was the very moment I was like "wow, I'm too old for this shit... im embarrassed to be watching this".


AEW does too much comedy


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## .747925 (Sep 2, 2020)

DaSlacker said:


> Just over a year ago I felt like we were getting an American version of NJPW carefully adapted for the weekly television format.


I hoped we were getting something similar to late 90s-early 00s in terms of drama with 'anything can happen' feeling.


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## Marbar (Dec 20, 2019)

AEW is not killing itself slowly. The past few months of Jericho and Cody have put the pedal to the metal. They are beyond cringeworthy at this point. Add OC to the mix and you have a runaway train on the verge of derailing. I love Pac but I don't even think that his announcement this week will bring me back. It's been a month since I've watched Dynamite live but I have absolutely zero confidence AEW will ever be the alternative that I thought it could be.


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## 10gizzle (Oct 11, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Can we please stop trying to sell stuff like this. They lost half their viewers. Conversation around them has become increasingly negative. There’s doing something different to fill a gap in the market and doing something different without any idea as to what you’re doing.


I keep seeing people say they lost half their viewers. How?


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

10gizzle said:


> I keep seeing people say they lost half their viewers. How?


Started at 1.4 million and now down to about 800k on a good week, this past week did 750k I think.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Started at 1.4 million and now down to about 800k on a good week, this past week did 750k I think.


That’s basically it. Obviously it isn’t always hyper-literal, but they went from ~1.4 million to ~700k.


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## 10gizzle (Oct 11, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Started at 1.4 million and now down to about 800k on a good week, this past week did 750k I think.


I think we can all agree that is an incredibly disenguous statement.

Calling 1.4M "their viewership" based off the first episode of Dynamite is just petty and a lazy thing to even bring up. Series and season premieres always have inflated ratings - let alone the first wrestling promotion to be on major TV for in 20 years.

The actual truth is that their viewership was 800K-900K. Basically what they did for their first 6 months. 

Then it went to 600-750K for 4 months. Pandemic. 

From mid July to now they've almost gotten back to those pre-pandemic numbers. And that includes the generally awful shows they've put on recently.


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## Speedy McFist (Jun 23, 2018)

Who are sexy women in AEW?


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

10gizzle said:


> I think we can all agree that is an incredibly disenguous statement.
> 
> Calling 1.4M "their viewership" based off the first episode of Dynamite is just petty and a lazy thing to even bring up. Series and season premieres always have inflated ratings - let alone the first wrestling promotion to be on major TV for in 20 years.
> 
> ...


I see it differently. The 1.4 million people were people willing to give this brand a chance and support it and something has happened to turn them off. What that is we don't know all we know is that 1.4 million was the start now it's 700,000.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I see it differently. The 1.4 million people were people willing to give this brand a chance and support it and something has happened to turn them off. What that is we don't know all we know is that 1.4 million was the start now it's 700,000.


Yep. People aren’t forced to watch premiers. They watch them because they are interested. Yes, they are generally stronger than mid-season episodes of regular TV shows, but it is possible to grow half your audience and doesn’t change the fact that 1.4 million people checked you out, about half stuck around.


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## 10gizzle (Oct 11, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I see it differently. The 1.4 million people were people willing to give this brand a chance and support it and something has happened to turn them off. What that is we don't know all we know is that 1.4 million was the start now it's 700,000.





The Wood said:


> Yep. People aren’t forced to watch premiers. They watch them because they are interested. Yes, they are generally stronger than mid-season episodes of regular TV shows, but it is possible to grow half your audience and doesn’t change the fact that 1.4 million people checked you out, about half stuck around.


Totally get where you're coming from. Guess I just disagree. 

That's why I think it's a stupid point to bring up. 

You say half checked out. I say 500K extra checked in to see a live AEW first episode ever. Neither of us know for sure.

So if AEW averages 1.4M viewers (for example) in 2021, you'll simply consider that them finally getting their initial audience back?


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

10gizzle said:


> Totally get where you're coming from. Guess I just disagree.
> 
> That's why I think it's a stupid point to bring up.
> 
> ...


The same amount. I don’t know if it would be the same people or not.


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## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

10gizzle said:


> *I think we can all agree that is an incredibly disenguous statement.*
> 
> Calling 1.4M "their viewership" based off the first episode of Dynamite is just petty and a lazy thing to even bring up. *Series and season premieres always have inflated ratings - let alone the first wrestling promotion to be on major TV for in 20 years.*
> 
> ...


Correct. Just replace "all" with anyone who isn't 1- Stupid 2- a desperate hater. These are the facts.

I've already been proven how many shows and premiers in this day and age do great and then have huge drop-offs after the premiers, but stupid people wanting to do destructive criticism see their 1.4m as their base, instead of the 800-900K they had settled in within 6-8 weeks.


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## 10gizzle (Oct 11, 2019)

The Definition of Technician said:


> Correct. Just replace "all" with anyone who isn't 1- Stupid 2- a desperate hater. These are the facts.
> 
> I've already been proven how many shows and premiers in this day and age do great and then have huge drop-offs after the premiers, but stupid people wanting to do destructive criticism see their 1.4m as their base, instead of the 800-900K they had settled in within 6-8 weeks.


I just feel there are way more legit, worthwhile discussions and criticisms to talk about re: AEW.

I think a lot of these guys are able to really put together some great points and I appreciate when @Chip Chipperson or some others put the effort into explaining their thoughts. It just cheapens everything to see people leaning on a single data point. Like I said. Lazy.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The Definition of Technician said:


> Correct. Just replace "all" with anyone who isn't 1- Stupid 2- a desperate hater. These are the facts.
> 
> I've already been proven how many shows and premiers in this day and age do great and then have huge drop-offs after the premiers, but stupid people wanting to do destructive criticism see their 1.4m as their base, instead of the 800-900K they had settled in within 6-8 weeks.


Yeah, the base they settled into when they chased anyone with a cursory interest off. NXT did the same thing. Wrestling doesn’t work like other TV shows. It’s all-year round live entertainment. There have been examples of shows that have not only retained an initial audience, but sometimes outdone it. And when it pertains to wrestling, sometimes they even grow an audience.

But no, everybody who points out 700k is a smaller number than 1.4 million is stupid.



10gizzle said:


> I just feel there are way more legit, worthwhile discussions and criticisms to talk about re: AEW.
> 
> I think a lot of these guys are able to really put together some great points and I appreciate when @Chip Chipperson or some others put the effort into explaining their thoughts. It just cheapens everything to see people leaning on a single data point. Like I said. Lazy.


Hang on, don’t be sneaky now. You started off being so nice and pleasant to talk to, haha. You are the one who isolated that piece of information and then engaged us in conversation about it. Not to mention, that is not a “single” data talking point we lean on. There are plenty of criticisms of AEW, yes, and we bring them up too. You can raise more than one point.

Don’t try and dismiss our entire arguments based on trivialising a single piece of it and acting like it represents the whole. *That’s* disingenuous.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Definition of Technician said:


> Correct. Just replace "all" with anyone who isn't 1- Stupid 2- a desperate hater. These are the facts.
> 
> I've already been proven how many shows and premiers in this day and age do great and then have huge drop-offs after the premiers, but stupid people wanting to do destructive criticism see their 1.4m as their base, instead of the 800-900K they had settled in within 6-8 weeks.


Didn't you just get banned for insulting other members of the forum? Not naming us specifically doesn't mean you haven't just tried to bait myself, Wood and anyone else who feels that way into an argument.

I'm happy to agree to disagree on the point like Gizzle agreed to but the fact remains at one point AEW had 1.4 million people and 700,000 of those people have thought "Eh, I'm not coming back to this" and left.


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## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

10gizzle said:


> I just feel there are way more legit, worthwhile discussions and criticisms to talk about re: AEW.
> 
> I think a lot of these guys are able to really put together some great points and I appreciate when @Chip Chipperson or some others put the effort into explaining their thoughts. It just cheapens everything to see people leaning on a single data point. Like I said. Lazy.


It's not just lazy, it's hammering down an irrelevant point, especially when it's it's pretty common.
You have 100% comparables of SD on Fox, and NXT on USA network, both having huge drop-offs after their debut.
You have multiple top rated TV shows and reality shows which also have huge debuts, and then big drop-offs. 
I bet if we go back to the first ratings thread, everyone is going to see that expectations were that ratings were going to be down. 
Hammering down something that happens normally for TV, and pretending a debut number is a base of viewership, is ridiculous. When you can make an argument in november 2019 and still be talking the same a year later, you need to realize that argument needs some updating. 
Especially since as you said, you can notice how they lost viewership for like the first 3 months of the panndemic before gaining them back.


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## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Didn't you just get banned for insulting other members of the forum? Not naming us specifically doesn't mean you haven't just tried to bait myself, Wood and anyone else who feels that way into an argument.
> 
> I'm happy to agree to disagree on the point like Gizzle agreed to but the fact remains at one point AEW had 1.4 million people and 700,000 of those people have thought "Eh, I'm not coming back to this" and left.


Me? i'm not naming anyone. 
I'm just calling facts what they are and anyone who disagrees with facts to be what I said 
If you feel I'm talking about you, that's on you 

Are you saying stupid people don't exist in the world and I shouldn't use an S word on this forum? 
or maybe Haters don't exist too? 

But then, what could possibly be the reason for someone to deny facts and be adamant about something that doesn't make sense and been proven false


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## 10gizzle (Oct 11, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Hang on, don’t be sneaky now. You started off being so nice and pleasant to talk to, haha. You are the one who isolated that piece of information and then engaged us in conversation about it. Not to mention, that is not a “single” data talking point we lean on. There are plenty of criticisms of AEW, yes, and we bring them up too. You can raise more than one point.
> 
> Don’t try and dismiss our entire arguments based on trivialising a single piece of it and acting like it represents the whole. *That’s* disingenuous.


Oh believe me I'm not. Don't want to make it seem like I'm pointing you guys specifically out.

I know you guys have more substance than that and I agree with plenty of it.


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## 10gizzle (Oct 11, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Yeah, the base they settled into when they chased anyone with a cursory interest off. NXT did the same thing. Wrestling doesn’t work like other TV shows. It’s all-year round live entertainment. There have been examples of shows that have not only retained an initial audience, but sometimes outdone it. And when it pertains to wrestling, sometimes they even grow an audience.
> 
> But no, everybody who points out 700k is a smaller number than 1.4 million is stupid.


This is interesting but I could also counter that wrestling doesn't work like other TV shows because it's live.

Not only that but AEW was debuting as the only show on major TV outside of WWE in 2 decades. Outlier.

WWE has had decades of millions of viewers. They have gradually lost viewers. 

They had millions more for many years. Now they have millions less on a consistent basis.

Can we really compare both "losing their viewership" as similar?


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## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

10gizzle said:


> I think we can all agree that is an incredibly disenguous statement.
> 
> Calling 1.4M "their viewership" based off the first episode of Dynamite is just petty and a lazy thing to even bring up. Series and season premieres always have inflated ratings - let alone the first wrestling promotion to be on major TV for in 20 years.
> 
> ...


Its not really petty. 

Its clear as day their highs are much lower than before. It took a special episode and NXT on another night to barely cross a million viewers and they only been able to do it once this year. 

It happened thrice last year and I'm pretty sure there were more 900K+ episodes last year than this one too.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The Definition of Technician said:


> Me? i'm not naming anyone.
> I'm just calling facts what they are and anyone who disagrees with facts to be what I said
> If you feel I'm talking about you, that's on you
> 
> ...


Ladies and gentlemen, this is what we call The Full Garty.



10gizzle said:


> This is interesting but I could also counter that wrestling doesn't work like other TV shows because it's live.
> 
> Not only that but AEW was debuting as the only show on major TV outside of WWE in 2 decades. Outlier.
> 
> ...


I don’t think their declines are exactly the same. You’re right in saying that the WWE’s has been more gradual, whereas AEW was much steeper initially. I’d say that they chased off the people looking for an alternative quick-smart.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

I can tell you with the first AEW TV show they should've done one thing that Russo did really well for TNA on their biggest show (Impact 04/01/10) and that's load the show at the front end.

What I mean by that is the opening 30 minutes of the first AEW Dynamite consisted of the following:

- Intro featuring Excalibur in a mask which is off putting unless he was some kind of Mil Mascaras legend which he is not. Just an indy goof.

- Highlighting the night's action which only featured two recognisable stars to the 700,000 that are now gone (Chris Jericho and Pac)

- A pretty cool video package between Cody and Sammy but Sammy is unknown at this point and getting big minutes in the first 10 minutes

- Dumb extravagant entrance for Brandi and Cody (Some things never change)

- Way too long match between Cody and Sammy

- Jericho attacks Cody for way too long.

- Jericho promo

- Opening of Brandon Cutler (Who got an entrance) and MJF.

---

To be honest with you, I watched the first Dynamite live I was done about halfway through Cody/Sammy. I think a lot of fans would've been out before Jericho even turned up.

Lets compare it to Russo's January 4th, 2010 episode of Impact:

- 2 minute video package featuring TNA's best moments including some of their biggest stars (Nash, Sting, Angle) and heavy hype for Hogan.

- They go into their hype for the nights matches and are promoting a steel cage match, a barbed wire match, a TLC match and massive hype for Hulk Hogan

- Bubba The Love Sponge chatting to the fans who talk about how passionate about TNA they are and how TNA is going to kill the WWE.

- Steel cage match which went 4 minutes and 30 seconds.

- Just before the end of the first quarter of the show we get footage of Jeff Hardy emerging from the crowd as the crowd goes mental. Hardy was the number 2 babyface from WWE at the time.

- Jeff Hardy backstage segment

- Footage of Hulk Hogan's police escort to the arena.

- Promo from Kevin Nash

- ODB beats WWE's Victoria for a title change (Match went 3 minutes)

- At the 29th minute just before the end of quarter 2 a limousine turns up revealing Ric Flair. The crowd go mental. Fade to commercial.

---

I also watched Impact live that day 10 years ago. I had to leave just after the Hulk promo and was calling a friend for updates every 15-20 minutes to see what was going on. TNA that night after Hogan gave us another title change, the return of Mick Foley, Jeff Jarrett's return, the debut of Orlando Jordan, Nasty Boys, Val Venis, reformation of the New World Order and a World Heavyweight Title bout which went 22 minutes.

AEW? Jobbers interacting with B-List celebs, a few decent matches and Jack Swagger as the big debut.


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## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> I blame this embarrassment.


Absolutely omega actually pull a gun on mjf and jericho's head and forced them to do le dinne debonair 
I also heard he forced khan to do the shitty cassidy vs jericho and also forced aew to not potray their world champion on tv consistently. What an absolute scumbag fuck him


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## ReekOfAwesomenesss (Apr 6, 2012)

patpat said:


> Absolutely omega actually pull a gun on mjf and jericho's head and forced them to do le dinne debonair
> I also heard he forced khan to do the shitty cassidy vs jericho and also forced aew to not potray their world champion on tv consistently. What an absolute scumbag fuck him


Hey... don't let wrestling get to you this much pal. He is a cool guy.


----------



## Whoanma (Apr 5, 2016)




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## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> Hey... don't let wrestling get to you this much pal. He is a cool guy.


I was being ironic and sarcastic, you k ow well I dont take this too seriously man


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## stew mack (Apr 24, 2013)

They Call Him Y2J said:


> Interesting.



in his defense, they both are hot garbage, even being inclined that way


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Marbar said:


> AEW is not killing itself slowly. The past few months of Jericho and Cody have put the pedal to the metal. They are beyond cringeworthy at this point. Add OC to the mix and you have a runaway train on the verge of derailing. I love Pac but I don't even think that his announcement this week will bring me back. It's been a month since I've watched Dynamite live but I have absolutely zero confidence AEW will ever be the alternative that I thought it could be.


This shit was evident in the first month of watching the show when Omega and Moxley routinely stole the show, but they literally could not get air time. 


patpat said:


> Absolutely omega actually pull a gun on mjf and jericho's head and forced them to do le dinne debonair
> I also heard he forced khan to do the shitty cassidy vs jericho and also forced aew to not potray their world champion on tv consistently. What an absolute scumbag fuck him


Yep. That dastardly Omega!!!


----------



## Shock Street (Oct 27, 2020)

bdon said:


> This shit was evident in the first month of watching the show when Omega and Moxley routinely stole the show, but they literally could not get air time.







This was genuinely such good shit


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## ReekOfAwesomenesss (Apr 6, 2012)

Ahh the times when both were something. Mox is still there while the other guy is as relevant as Orange.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> Ahh the times when both were something. Mox is still there while the other guy is as relevant as Orange.


Is he? All I ever see is him doing one minute promos.


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## ReekOfAwesomenesss (Apr 6, 2012)

bdon said:


> Is he? All I ever see is him doing one minute promos.


Tbf, Orange is even more relevant than the tussles.


----------

