# Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - The Ragin' Climax



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Link to the last thread: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/1075849-official-dvd-match-show-discussion-thread.html

Also, the ever popular CAL scale:



> The Cal Scale
> 
> NO = -1
> DUD-* = 0
> ...


You know what to do, people. And watch MENG matches.


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## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

:mark:


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> You know what to do, people. And watch MENG matches.


those are the same thing, there should be no ''And''.

Before this thread dies I will watch the Wrath and Mortis matches and finish Fatal 4Way 2010.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Does that mean Wrath & Mortis vs Faces of Fear from Fall Brawl '97? b/c please.

Their short TV matches count too.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I tried finding that a few months ago and couldn't. Doesn't seem to be online.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Steal someone's WWE Network account, go to Fall Brawl 1997 and make it happen.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZDinUCdRJA



yey~~~~


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AMAZING.

btw, do Meng vs Eaton too.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Does that mean Wrath & Mortis vs Faces of Fear from Fall Brawl '97? b/c please.
> 
> Their short TV matches count too.



Well look at that, perfect way to start the day. Was just gonna come on here and ask for a reccomendation but you already took care of that.

My girlfriend woke up today in the middle of me watching Vince vs Zach Gowen at Vengeance 2003, and boy, was that ever embarrassing. She threw around words like "sick" and "depraved", then she started paying attention and couldn't stop laughing at Vince smacking Gowen around :lol


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## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I re-watched Mortis/Wrath vs Glacier/Ernest Miller last night :mark:

Just finished watching Jericho/X-Pac from Unforgiven 2000 & that match was fantastic in my opinion.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> I re-watched Mortis/Wrath vs Glacier/Ernest Miller last night :mark:
> 
> Just finished watching Jericho/X-Pac from Unforgiven 2000 & that match was fantastic in my opinion.



Will watch that Jericho match next.

Before watching Mortis/Wrath vs FoF, I rewatched Jericho/Eddie. Still one of my favorite matches to watch, Eddie was just phenomenal here. This is probably Jericho's second best match after the Benoit Ladder match. Once Eddie came back from injury, I feel he was the best wrestler in the world in 1997. That's saying a lot considering all the greatness that happened that year.


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Only thing I remember about Fatal Four Way was the crowd chanting Daniel Bryan at the end :lmao.

Jericho/X-Pac sounds fun. One can make a good argument that X-Pac was a top three worker in the AE. Has anyone seen his GWF stuff? I remember liking a match he had with Jerry Lynn and another one with Sabu I believe.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Only thing I remember about Fatal Four Way was the crowd chanting Daniel Bryan at the end :lmao.
> 
> Jericho/X-Pac sounds fun. One can make a good argument that X-Pac was a top three worker in the AE. Has anyone seen his GWF stuff? I remember liking a match he had with Jerry Lynn and another one with Sabu I believe.



As long as we both agree that Mick Foley was the MVP of the AE from a ring work stand point. Obviously Austin and Rock and Taker were bigger names, but Missus Foley's Baby boy was by far the most consistent worker and delivered the best matches.

If the AE started around December 1997 and ended when WCW was bought, Austin, Rock, Taker, and Hunter all had their best matches during that era with Mick.


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jericho/X-Pac from UF is great, gave it ***3/4 when I rambled on the event.

Speak of, I'm taking a break from the awful, awful Raw 03 PPV Rambles and I'm watching... No Mercy 2003 . SAVE_US_SMACKDOWN!

EDIT: Actually Rock had his best matches with HHH during that time .


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Jericho/X-Pac from UF is great, gave it ***3/4 when I rambled on the event.
> 
> Speak of, I'm taking a break from the awful, awful Raw 03 PPV Rambles and I'm watching... No Mercy 2003 . SAVE_US_SMACKDOWN!
> 
> EDIT: Actually Rock had his best matches with HHH during that time .



Hmmmm. Rock/Hunter Backlash 2000 and Judgement Day 2000 vs Rock/Mankind Royal Rumble 1999 and St. Valentines Day Massacre......you might have a point. If the Hunter matches are better, it's not by much.:hmm:


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## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Will *watch that Jericho match next.*
> 
> Before watching Mortis/Wrath vs FoF, I rewatched Jericho/Eddie. Still one of my favorite matches to watch, Eddie was just phenomenal here. This is probably Jericho's second best match after the Benoit Ladder match. Once Eddie came back from injury, I feel he was the best wrestler in the world in 1997. That's saying a lot considering all the greatness that happened that year.


Good shit man (Y)

I am almost done watching all the WCW 2000 ppv's :mark: got half of Starcade 2000 to finsh.

I finally know what the hell happened in that year.


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nah, both those HHH/Rock matches are way ahead of the Mankind/Rock matches.


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## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Was very bored on a Saturday afternoon, so I decided to watch one of my old wrestling DVD's which I haven't done in so long, specifically to re-watch one of my favorite Cena matches - John Cena vs Umaga Last Man Standing match from Royal Rumble 2007. And this match was as good as I remember it being. Umaga's wild in ring style and monster character makes his work on Cena's ribs very enjoyable to watch, Cena's selling builds up the sympathy on Cena which makes the crowd go from a bit of mixed reaction to Cena at the start to getting behind him as underdog in a battle with a unstoppable monster, kinda reminds me of Cena/Brock from Extreme Rules 2012 and how the crowd slowly started to get behind Cena from getting his ass kicked for most of the match. There was some unique spots in this match that I liked, not your typical ones you'd expect, particularly the use of the steel steps I really liked. Cena's brief little comebacks were good, further putting over Umaga's dominance when they didn't amount to anything. And it wasn't until Umaga made his own mistakes by first when he went through the announce table, and secondly when he got distracted by Estrada, that Cena was able to turn the match around. And I love the finish of this match, Umaga was built as a unstoppable monster, how are you going to convincingly keep a monster down for a 10 count? Cena choking the fuck out of Umaga was great, JR's line of: ''even a monster's got to breath'' was brilliant and Umaga's great selling made it very convincing. Definitely a unique way to end the match, and I have no problems with the finish. Legit *****1/2* to *****3/4* match for me. Love it.


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rock and Hunter also had that hideous Fully Loaded 1998 match. I want everyone to watch it just so they can realize just how low wrestling can get.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Nah, both those HHH/Rock matches are way ahead of the Mankind/Rock matches *IN THE HUMBLE OPINION OF CAL*.


fixed. 


I'd rather watch the Mick matches to be perfectly honest. I don't know if that makes them better, but it's certainly my preference. I like Rock as the bad guy more.


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Rock and Hunter also had that hideous Fully Loaded 1998 match. I want everyone to watch it just so they can realize just how low wrestling can get.


Rock/HHH had awful matches pretty much every time they wrestled until 2000.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> fixed.
> 
> 
> I'd rather watch the Mick matches to be perfectly honest. I don't know if that makes them better, but it's certainly my preference. I like Rock as the bad guy more.


Well that "fix" is a lie. I AIN'T HUMBLE. And it wasn't opinion either :side:.

I don't like Rock as either babyface or heel, but at least as a babyface the heel gets to beat the fuck out of him more for most of the match .


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Rock and Hunter also had that hideous Fully Loaded 1998 match. I want everyone to watch it just so they can realize just how low wrestling can get.



That's the strap match right? Sweet Jesus that thing was BAD.


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## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Both HHH/Rock Fully Loaded matches aren't good at all.

Overall chemistry wise though, it's pretty easy to say that HHH is one of Rock's (if not his greatest) rival ever, with the Backlash and Judgment Day matches being some of the greatest matches in Rock's entire career. The Rock went a fucking HOUR and it was entertaining as all hell throughout? HOW?

Must be THE GAME.

:HHH2


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's the strap match right? Sweet Jesus that thing was BAD.


That was bad, but that's not the match I'm talking about. They had a 2/3 falls match that made the strap match look like Flair/Windham in comparison.


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rock/HHH had a CLASSIC Iron Man.

Benoit/HHH had a good but nothing special Iron Man.

So... Rock > Benoit? 8*D


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## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Something about the year 2000 that just clicked so much for Trips/Rock. That was their year. You know, after Foley retired.

:mark: so much at Hunter's promo from Smackdown. This is the Triple H that I've been clamoring for since Summerslam, and he didn't disappoint. Won't spoil it for anyone that hasn't seen it, but it reminded me a lot of the Trips/Taker build to 28, except Trips is full blown heel now and is kicking his role as the evil heel boss into 5th gear, making me that much more giddy for his first heel performance in almost 8 years. Also, the fact Bryan is almost sure to go over him at this point is also :mark:

Anyways, got some time to kill before the semis of the ACC tournament, so browsing the Network. Got an itch to watch some Attitude Era stuff, so going with Backlash 1999.


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## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well the thing is that Rock and HHH's match wasn't completely crippled by the ending and retarded (almost literal) storyline that came with the match. Benoit & HHH couldn't shift out of that third gear into the fourth gear that would have made the Ironman classic, but the story they were trying to tell HAD to head in the Eugene direction, thus influencing the creativity that Benoit and HH could have brought to the table.

The 2005 Benoit/HHH RAW matches. DROOL. DROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Man, No Mercy 03 so far has shattered, COMPLETELY OBLITERATED, the 3 Raw 03 PPV's I've watched so far. And all I've seen is the opener :lmao.


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## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If you only watched the opener it means that Benoit/Albert is next, and that STEPHANIE VERSUS VINCE IS COMING UP.

& ANGLE VERSUS CENA

& EDDIE VERSUS SHOW

& BROCK VERSUS TAKER (I give it **** 1/4*ISH... My opinion of it is higher than most probably)

:mark:


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## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Was kinda bored by the X-Pac/Jericho match.


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm probably a bigger fan of Lesnar/Taker than most (or everyone haha). But this PPV has such a wonderful card in general :mark:.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Duh Cal. It's Mysterio vs Tajiri. OF COURSE THAT OBLITERATES.


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

NEW THREAD :mark:

Gonna suffer through Armageddon 2000 later, but at least It has the fantastic HIAC match.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit does something good w/Billy Gunn iirc. It's a 2000 PPV. It may be fairly weak, but I wouldn't define it as "hard to sit through".


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nah, the Gunn/Benoit match sucks too.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Says the guy who just put over the Biker Chain match.


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Damn right.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Damn right.



Hah, I enjoy the Biker Chain match as well, have no clue why people hate it so. I gave it ***1/2 on last watch. It's Brock LESNARRR and Taker people, in a FIGHT. It's not possible for such a match up to be bad. It's nowhere near as good as Vengeance, let alone HiaC, but it's still pretty good and entertaining. My biggest gripe was the lack of chain usage. I feel the chain should have come into play much earlier.


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## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Lesnar/Taker HIAC sucks.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> Lesnar/Taker HIAC sucks.


Cannot compute. 

Nah, love that match personally. Also still really like their Unforgiven match despite the finish, which i didn't really have a big problem with tbh.


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I haven't seen the biker chain match(I will soon) but the Unforgiven is pretty good and HIAC is 2002 MOTY and almost 5 stars


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## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Make this my second SummerSlam attended in a row :mark: :mark: :mark: :hb :hb


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Biker Chain match was boring. I understand that it was supposed to be a fight, but that's no excuse for such a sleep-inducing match. I faintly remember a handicap or triple threat match between Taker, Lesnar, and Big Show that was the "tops". It was the one where :heyman2 kept changing the stipulation.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Borrowed the Best PPV Matches of 2013 dvd off my mate. Contemplating watching HHH/Brock from ER.

Said I wouldn't though as it's one of my most infuriating matches. Looking forward to watching Del Rio/Ziggler again though.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I've downloaded three Armageddon 2000 torrents off XWT and none of them work fpalm

Gonna have to watch a different show for now

EDIT: 4th times the charm hopefully as this new one will be done in less than an hour


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Lesnar/Taker HIAC sucks.


You are out of your ever loving mind. Outside of the original at Badd Blood 1997, Lesnar/Taker NM 2002 is the second best cell match ever IMHO. It really doesn't get much better than that, I have it as a top 20 match in WWE history. Taker bled all over the fucking place and Lesnar was just an inhuman animal for the majority of the bout. And Heyman gives one of the best manager performances I've ever seen, especially considering it's a freaking Cell match and he has no obvious way of impacting the match. Hell, even Heyman bleeds in that one. Blood doesn't make a match great, but when it's combined with the brutality and hard hitting in an already all time great match, it can put it over the top. In this case, seeing blood pouring out of Takers head while Lesnar continues to physically maul him is a visual fans had never ever seen before. Nobody beats up the Deadman, nobody, but Lesnar came in and did the impossible. He took down Taker in a gimmick match that was created specifically for the Phenom.


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## H (Aug 15, 2011)

*Backlash 1999*

*Six Man Tag Team Match*

The Brood vs The Acolytes and Mideon

Gosh, these themes make me :mark: so hard. So this came about when Christian was tortured by the Corporation into giving up the whereabouts of Stephanie, who had been abducted by the Ministry. This made Taker turn the Ministry on Christian, when Gangrel and Edge came to his aid. Crowd get REAL silent as the match starts. Also, Teddy Long is referee :lol Man the silence is this match from the crowd is pretty disconcerting, but I still rather like the match a bit. Random "Mideon Sucks" chant breaks out, which is the first real outburst from this crowd. :lol at the crowd no selling Edge's spear. :lol at them also no-selling the hot tag to Christian. Okay, enough talk about the crowd. The match is okay. Bradshaw and Farooq are usually pretty fun to watch, but I couldn't care less about Mideon. The three man work by the Brood at the end is a bit of fun. Viscera runs down and just runs Christian into the ring apron, leaving him vulnerable for the Clothesline from Hell from Bradshaw. Not much to see here, honestly.

Rock entering the arena backstage, dragging the Smoking Skull belt. Dat disrespect.

*Hardcore Title Match*

Hardcore Holly vs Al Snow

Actually not looking forward to this at all. First weapon pulled out is a gallon of water :lol Guess we found where R-Truth got his inspiration in 2011. Match should have ended there, tbhunter. Ooh, quite liked Snow's moonsault off the barricade, which he follows up with a return shot with the gallon of water. Pulling out the hockey sticks :mark: Holly barely selling the shotsthough fpalm TABLES, but Holly gets a shot in with the hockey stick to deter Snow from setting up the table. Cookie sheet shot to the head :lol They fight to the back where Holly pulls out the kitchen sink :lmao Man, my interest in this match has fallen to below zero. First pinfall attempt in a while is on top of a car, which Holly is thrown on from the ramp to the TV truck, and Snow drops an elbow for a 2 count. Wish it had ended there, also. Back in the ring, and Holly hits a superplex through the table, which he takes the brunt, and the ref starts counting, which JR says is weird because there's no countout. Ref gets to 9, and Holly gets the arm over, but only for a two countout. They're slowly back up and Snow hits Holly with Head for the win. Glad that's over. ZERO fucks for that.

Backstage camera showing Austin arriving :mark: Crowd couldn't care less fpalm

Backstage camera showing Taker talking to The Acoltyes/Mideon/Viscera about the eventual arrival of their Higher Power. :mark: Ministry Taker :mark: 

*Intercontinental Title Match*

Goldust vs The Godfather

I'm not even morbidly curious about this match. Goldust coming out with the Blue Meanie. Oh damn, forgot about BlueDust :lmao That's another stupid ass gimmick. Meanie doing Sable's schtick fpalm Godfather got the biggest crowd reaction to this point :lol Scratch that - the HO's got the biggest reaction to this point. Damn, one chick has tits halfway to the ground :lmao PIMPIN HO'S NATIONWIDE :lmao Blue Meanie scoping out the ho's :lol I'm pretty well convinced that Jerry Lawler used to touch himself during every show back then. No way that was a gimmick. Anyways, there's a match now. Godfather gets the upper hand, and Goldie decides to call it a night, but the Blue Meanie reminds him that he can't win the title if he gets counted out. Blue Meanie using his brain? Blue Meanie has a brain? Huh. Meanie hands Goldie a bag of powder, and as he gets ready to use it, Godfather knocks the powder, and ends up blinding Goldie. Meanie is in, trying to help Goldie, but Goldie, who is blinded, mistakes Meanie for Goldust and attacks him and sets him up for Shattered Dreams, which he hits. Godfather hits a kick on Goldust, and Meanie falls out of the corner onto Goldie, which you would think would be a countout, but the match continues. Meanie then accidentally runs into Goldie in the corner - another possble DQ, but Godfather stacks them up in the corner for a splash. He hits the Death Valley Driver for the win. That's over. Ho's dog pile Godfather. The girl with the giant tits was one false step away from showing them to everyone.

*Number One Contender Tag Team Match*

New Age Outlaw vs Jeff Jarrett and Owen Hart

OUTLAWS :mark: Attitude Era Outlaw :mark: It's admittedly strange seeing Dogg with hair and not fat, and Billy not looking 50. HOLY FUCK AT DEBRA :kobe4 Road Dogg cuts a promo asking for the puppies. Billy warming up to see them :lol Sad to think that we'd lose Owen just a few months later. Man, Billy's offense off the hot tag is pretty awesome. For a guy that goes 6'5", 240 or something, he was pretty damn agile and threw a really sweet dropkick. :mark: so hard at that finish Outlaws get a tag spot countered, and Owen locks in the Sharpshooter on the Dogg, but Gunn counters the Figure Four from Jarrett, sending him out of the ring, then hits the Fameasser while Owen has the Sharpshooter locked on for the 1-2-3. I quite like the match - best of the night so far. Crowd singing the Outlaws theme after the match :banderas

Cole interviewing Shane backstage about the main event. Shane promoing better than most people can now. Kevin Kelly interviewing Vince. 21 year old Steph looking so innocent. Boy how things changed. 

*Boiler Room Brawl
*
Mankind vs Big Show

Man, this was something to watch. Not that I enjoyed it, but I couldn't turn away. Mankind's bumping is just nuts, and the amount of broken glass all over the place is ridiculous. Foley breaking like 10 pieces of sheet rock over Show's head in sucession :lol He may have gotten a piece of glass stuck in his hand after breaking a glass plate over Show's head, due to the way he was favoring his hand. God almighty at the amount of broken glass in this, and Foley was crawling all over it. Kind of symbolic to see Mick's bloody hand prints on the floor leading up to the door as he escaped. Great effort on Mick's part to make Show look as good as he could. 

Michael Cole interviewing Triple H and Chyna. Trips' promo :jay Chyna's was better. Something about a pecking order. Glad he learned how to talk. 

Triple H vs X-Pac

Well this is a snoozer. The neck work on X-Pac was okay early, but it got real boring, real fast. 

Ken Shamrock vs The Undertaker

Ministry theme :mark: So, I don't dislike this as much as Cal seemed to. I actually enjoyed a bit of the match work, and Taker breaking into the half crab was something I've never seen. Shamrock's counter of the Chokeslam into the cross armbreaker was kind of nifty, and the finish with Shamrock seemingly looking for the Tombstone, but Taker reversing into his own Tombstone was cool with me. Better than the previous match by far. 

*WWF Championship Match*

Stone Cold vs The Rock

I love this build. Rock in the Austin feud was just so much better in his promos than in the very previous feud with Foley, where he was all catchphrases and nothing else. The funeral after he threw Austin and the belt off the bridge, "Dearly trailer park trash" :lol Austin running over Rock's Lincoln Continental :lol 1999 when a Lincoln Continental was a GOAT car or something :lol 

Hmmm, Rock getting cheered. Wonder if he turned face shortly after this... Austin :mark: Austin running down and just throwing the belt over the ring as he runs in :mark: Lou Thesz press :mark: PISTON FIRE :mark: :lol at them taking the set down at the entrance way. Interesting thing that JR says when the set comes down - "And the walls of Jericho come tumbling down". Interesting that he would say this with Jericho debuting just a short number of months later. Don't know if he was foreshadowing or just using a fitting comparison that worked at the moment. Maybe I'm overthinking. 

This is just a fun brawl. Rock getting on the camera is spot that gets mentioned the most obviously, but it's so hilarious with Rock turning the camera back on Austin and he's standing there with the two middle fingers and Rock goes "OH SHIT" and takes the stunner while holding the camera. Shane being a good heel here, not counting the full three after he mistakingly hit Rock with the belt and show Austin the bird. JR going nuts "THREE! THREE DAMN IT!" 

Dat ending though :lmao "WHERE TO, STEPHANIE?" :lmao

As fun as this is, I find the Backlash 2000 main event to be far superior. Average show on the whole, with the number one contender tag match, Shamrock/Taker, and the main event to be the only things really worth watching.​


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Great review,Show looks OK,but its probably the best ppv of 99 which is pretty pathetic when you think about it :lmao

Armageddon 2000 torrent finally worked! Watching it now


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## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

SMITTY said:


> HIAC is 2002 MOTY and almost 5 stars


Rock/Hogan, brother. You gotta watch more wrestling from 2002. :cena5




The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You are out of your ever loving mind. Outside of the original at Badd Blood 1997, Lesnar/Taker NM 2002 is the second best cell match ever IMHO. It really doesn't get much better than that, I have it as a top 20 match in WWE history. Taker bled all over the fucking place and Lesnar was just an inhuman animal for the majority of the bout. And Heyman gives one of the best manager performances I've ever seen, especially considering it's a freaking Cell match and he has no obvious way of impacting the match. Hell, even Heyman bleeds in that one. Blood doesn't make a match great, but when it's combined with the brutality and hard hitting in an already all time great match, it can put it over the top. In this case, seeing blood pouring out of Takers head while Lesnar continues to physically maul him is a visual fans had never ever seen before. Nobody beats up the Deadman, nobody, but Lesnar came in and did the impossible. He took down Taker in a gimmick match that was created specifically for the Phenom.


I gotta be honest, I enjoyed the match up until the point where Taker decided to take an enormous crap on Lesnar's entire hard work in the match. Take a guess what I'm talking about. It really felt like someone pushed "RESET" and a new match emerged. Have a mental block against that.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I don't think I've ever watched Taker/Shamrock. Match has always sorta intrigued me though tbh. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Rock/Hogan, brother. You gotta watch more wrestling from 2002. :cena5
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I watched all 2002 ppvs a while back , Hogan/Rock is good I guess, think I gave it like ***1/2 for just the entertainment factor alone,if it wasn't for Flair/Taker it would be MOTN. 

And I didn't really notice any "resetting" of the match but I'll make sure to look for it next time I watch it(its been since October).


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

During my rewatch of all these past years, one thing that did stick out was how often all these "resets" that Chismo is talking about occurred. I can honestly name only one main eventer during that time that understood how to sell long-term, and his name is Michael Francis Foley. Rock sometimes did a good job, but oftentimes he shat on any prior work during his comeback sequence. Undertaker and Kane didn't know how to sell, or never needed to. Triple H had on-and-off days. Austin was Kofi Kingston level bad as a seller. Eh, I guess if Jericho and Benoit count as main eventers, they were good sellers. But for the most part, I would have to say that we have the best group of "sellers" today than any other time in company history.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think my last watch of Taker/Lesnar was the only time I actually understood where the no-selly criticism was coming from. I wasn't actually terribly bothered by that so much as I was bothered by the fact Taker had to insist on using the hand to punch Lesnar in the head. The ''no-selling'' didn't really seem like ''no-selling'' to me so as just ''not very good selling''. The punching was stupid. You have two hands, dude. I thought the middle wasn't great either, I think I said I wished it was 2007 Undertaker controlling the match instead of 2002 Undertaker. I still think it's a really, really good match, but I probably (to put it in certain terms) wouldn't give it ''four stars''.


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't think you would give any American match four stars. Now where do I find Tarek/Rotten?


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Backlash 1999 main event is pretty awesome. I will never forget Austin stunning Rock while he was walking with the camera. That's a classic moment. :lol



funnyfaces1 said:


> Rock and Hunter also had that hideous Fully Loaded 1998 match. *I want everyone to watch it just so they can realize just how low wrestling can get.*


Thanks but I already saw that happen... for nearly a whole year in 2012.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I don't think you would give any American match four stars. Now where do I find Tarek/Rotten?


I would upload it but you were mean in your first sentence so NO.


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## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Just finished Unforgiven 2000.

I hate that Benoit won that match but it got restarted because the ref didn't see Taker's foot on the rope :no:


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Taker vs Shamrock is great. And to this day, that whole Undertaker and his hand thing about HIAC still leaves me chuckling.


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## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Thoughts on this match


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## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

So how many of you have seen Vader/Owen Hart from One Night Only?


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> So how many of you have seen Vader/Owen Hart from One Night Only?



:mark: :mark:

If you check the old thread and search "Vader/Owen ONO" I bet like 6-7 posts from me come up. I feel it's necessary to pimp that match ATLEAST every other week, as it's so spectacular. That whole event was pretty grand, HBK/Davey was good, as was Taker/Bret and Foley/Hunter, but Vader/Owen is MotN for me. I think it might have replaced SS 1996 as my favorite Vader WWE singles match.

Check out Vader/Taker Canadian Stampede now :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

As you see from my avatar, I've been in a Vader mood lately. :mark: Need to dig out my Vader set when I have time.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Started watching Jon Moxley promos today. And holy fuck he's real good on the mic. I've seen a couple from before WWE but he's got some real great stuff.






If he ends up going solo at some point (presumably) I'd love it if they made his character darker.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

:mark: at Bryes sig 

That is all


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> As you see from my avatar, I've been in a Vader mood lately. :mark: Need to dig out my Vader set when I have time.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


It's always good to be in a Vader mood. Did Vader ever have a singles match with Bret Hart? I thought they might have had a match on Raw in early 1997 but I've never seen it or heard anyone talk about it...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> It's always good to be in a Vader mood. Did Vader ever have a singles match with Bret Hart? I thought they might have had a match on Raw in early 1997 but I've never seen it or heard anyone talk about it...


Yeah mate. I know about these two short ones:

(RAW 1/6/97), (RAW 8/29/97).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Yeah mate. I know about these two short ones:
> 
> (RAW 1/6/97), (RAW 8/29/97).



Are they as good in real life as they sound on paper? I'm thinking the January one might be best cause Bret was still a baby face then. I'll start my search thanks again brother.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Are they as good in real life as they sound on paper? I'm thinking the January one might be best cause Bret was still a baby face then. I'll start my search thanks again brother.


Nothing overly special IMO from what i remember, but i liked seeing them together. One ends in some interference i think. I need to rewatch both TBH.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cool thanks.

Never seen any matches in the Edge/Angle series, which match or matches were the best out of their PPV encounters?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

They have a house show match on tape too, I think.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I really like their Backlash 2002 match.

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----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> :mark: :mark:
> 
> If you check the old thread and search "Vader/Owen ONO" I bet like 6-7 posts from me come up. I feel it's necessary to pimp that match ATLEAST every other week, as it's so spectacular. That whole event was pretty grand, HBK/Davey was good, as was Taker/Bret and Foley/Hunter, but Vader/Owen is MotN for me. I think it might have replaced SS 1996 as my favorite Vader WWE singles match.
> 
> Check out Vader/Taker Canadian Stampede now :mark:


Good man haha.

I just watched it the other now and I instantly fell in love with the match, but would you expect anything less from those 2?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Edge/Angle from Backlash 2002 is awesome. Sure, it's a "near fall fest", but something about that night made it fine. Edge, who was a directionless midcarder at the time, looked better than ever. Too fun.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Edge/Angle from Backlash 2002 is awesome. Sure, it's a "near fall fest", but something about that night made it fine. Edge, who was a directionless midcarder at the time, looked better than ever. Too fun.


That's what I was looking for thanks. Not really a fan at all of Edge but he was really pretty good in 2002, and Angle is either amazing or full retard depending on what day you catch him on, so I figured they must have had atleast 1 or 2 good matches. 

Just finished Tajiri/Noble from NM 2002. I swear, nobody in the history of wrestling, atleast from what I've seen, throws a better kick, in particular a round house kick, that Yoshi Tajiri. He kicked the absolute crap out of Noble here, several times. They all sounded like real brain scramblers too.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Tried to watch No Mercy 1999, but I'm tapping out. Got midway through Foley/Venis and couldn't go any further. Review for MOTN:

*Chyna vs Jeff Jarrett*

Good Housekeeping match for the Intercontinental Title fpalm Chyna winning the IC title fpalm DEBRA though :kobe4 Debra the only thing worth seeing here. Jarrett attacking all these women was pretty stupid also. But imagine if WWE let someone do this in 2014 :banderas Chyna using the My Time theme :mark: :lol at it having Triple's name in the lyrics. I would love to know who thought this was a good idea. Had Russo left by this time? Actually yes, he and Ferrera (that fucker) had left at the first of October, and this show was on 10/17/99. (I looked that up while barely watching this watch. Looked back and it looks like Chyna is pouring flour or something all over everyone. She's also covered in something.) Jarrett locks on the Figure Four. Chyna gets to the ropes, and is forced to break the hold. Miss Kitty hands Jarrett some tongs lol) and Jarrett looks to come off the top rope but Chyna hits him with a low blow, then takes the tongs to his go nads. Then she hits him with a couple pies to the face. JR is displeased about them wasting two pies. KITCHEN SINK TO THE FACE AND JARRETT KICKS OUT. Fuck, please end this. Chyna looking for the Pedigree on the CAKE, but Jarrett counters into the catapult, right into TEDDY LONG, the ref. Jarrett wins after hitting Chyna with the IC belt. Oh my God. Teddy Long telling Jeff he can't win because the belt isn't a household item. Match continues :StephenA FUCK YOU TEDDY. Jeff looks to put the Figure Four on Teddy, but Chyna nails him with the guitar. Gets the win. So, a belt isn't a household item, but a guitar is? This shit :lmao :lmao :lmao


:ti


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Foley/Venis was pretty fun. SOCKO VS ROCKO! Venis was on fire in that one month as a heel before he turned face/tweener/whatever he was by the next month. That PPV also had a pretty good main event that Triple H of all people carried. And the ladder match is an all-time classic. First half of the show though was dreadful.

Also worth noting that Chyna was both a face and a heel at the same time during that period of 1999.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Did Sheamus and Mark Henry ever have any good matches? I know they had a strap match that everyone says is dissapointing but I was wondering if they had any others on PPV that are worth a watch.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Summerslam 2011 and Smackdown soon after.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Oh yeah, I still love the ladder match, and I've seen Trips/Austin. Just couldn't go further.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I'm about to finish Survivor Series 1998 & this show has been just as fun as I remember it, minus the awful triple threat tag team match fpalm


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Thoughts on this match


Great. I hope you watched it b/c I told you to check it out that night in the chatbox. Morrison rules & Callihan continues his string of being one of the best guys around today.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Great. I hope you watched it b/c I told you to check it out that night in the chatbox. Morrison rules & Callihan continues his string of being one of the best guys around today.


lol yea I remembered that convo you and w/ TJF I think ? anyways I had time today to watch it and put it on, pretty fucking great, first Callihan match Ive ever seen and was very impressed. Who was the 2nd guy you said he had a match Jeff Hardy memory is fuzz ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Matt Hardy.

I'd go out and say that one is a hair better than vs Morrison. Top quality.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> I'm about to finish Survivor Series 1998 & this show has been just as fun as I remember it, minus the awful triple threat tag team match fpalm


That PPV is fun the first couple times, but I wouldn't go against giving every match on that PPV a DUD after watching it for the fourth time. Even Regal and X-Pac didn't click that night. How is that possible?

I'm worried for you, Cody's brother. Please don't move on further and watch IYH: Rock Bottom.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That PPV is fun the first couple times, but I wouldn't go against giving every match on that PPV a DUD after watching it for the fourth time. Even Regal and X-Pac didn't click that night. How is that possible?
> 
> I'm worried for you, Cody's brother. Please don't move on further and watch IYH: Rock Bottom.


Of Course I'm gonna watch it, I have watched the whole year up to this point.

I'm excited to see it since I don't think I've ever seen anything from that show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Meh, Regal & X-Pac was watchable. You knew there wasn't any long term goal there and it was Regal grounding Pac until he made the comeback and then it was the double countout. Worst thing was the post-match confusion w/Vince. Nothing I found to shield my eyes.

Only thing I've seen that made me cringe was the triple threat tag match. I'm forgivable w/wrestling as long as I can find some fun in it. IE Al Snow vs Jarrett wasn't anything good in the slightest, but Al Snow baby. Crowd was loving him & we all wanted head. He won. I danced. FUN. See, simple as that. Wrestling is the best thing around.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> lol yea I remembered that convo you and w/ TJF I think ? anyways I had time today to watch it and put it on, pretty fucking great, first Callihan match Ive ever seen and was very impressed. Who was the 2nd guy you said he had a match Jeff Hardy memory is fuzz ?



Haven't seen the match you are talking about, but if you want to see 2 more world class Callihan matches, check his two with Finlay back in 2012. They are both out of sight.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

And watch everything he did vs Adam Cole. Sans the Cage of Death 2012 match. The only one that was average.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I enjoyed Rock Bottom quite a ton, I just didn't care for The Oddities/Headbangers & Bossman/Shamrock vs New Age Outlaws.

Rock/Mankind was solid just like all of there matches are.

I really enjoyed Goldust/Jarret & Owen/Blackman & The Brood vs The J.O.B. Squad


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Chismo said:


> Lesnar/Taker HIAC sucks.


Nooooooooooooooope.

Oh wait I've just looked down and saw your hand complaint, I get that. Best example of that for me is Cena/Umaga which just.... god, WHY SPEND 5 MINUTES TAKING BOLTS OUT THE PIECE OF METAL WHICH HOLDS THE ROPES IN PLACE WHEN YOU CAN JUST USE THE TOOL? Yeah the finish looks cool but make some bloody sense please! (For the record I began this before Cal, he just leeches off me.)

Anyway, Lesnar/Taker is the best HIAC for me and a top 15 match for the company ever, different strokes,different folks.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Are they as good in real life as they sound on paper? I'm thinking the January one might be best cause Bret was still a baby face then. I'll start my search thanks again brother.


I'd recommend acquiring that January Raw anyway because it has a brilliant wee 7 minute Owen/Mankind match to kick things off that I love with all my heart. I mean I like it more than anyone else I know but most folk go ***-***3/4 with it.


I've just realised the fun in being here again, most of you weren't around last time I posted majorly and as such pimping of shit like that is all new and stuff to you and not "Oh jesus Craig's off on one again".


I'd say the Rock/Mankind match from Rock Bottom is their best match together by far (Not the funnest though because we live in a world where Mankind got salsa in his eyes).


Fuck it, coming SOON: A ramble on a bunch of random shit, one of those days.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Saw that Brock/Taker HiaC dicussion. Rewatched it yesterday, while I was watching NM 2002 only for that fantastic tag match, and I have to say that I liked the HiaC match more than the last time I watched it. Not the best HiaC match of all time you can't compare it with the Bad Blood masterpiece, but it was an excellent and extremely brutal match. I'll give it ****1/2. I loved it because it really showed what a HiaC match should mean, and also the finnish was great.

Changing the subject, Dean Malenko vs Scotty 2 Hotty from Backlash it's still awesome, ***1/2


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Cool thanks.
> 
> Never seen any matches in the Edge/Angle series, which match or matches were the best out of their PPV encounters?


I'd also suggest checking out the cage match they had on SD in 2002


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Craig said:


> I'd recommend acquiring that January Raw anyway because it has a brilliant wee 7 minute Owen/Mankind match to kick things off that I love with all my heart. I mean I like it more than anyone else I know but most folk go ***-***3/4 with it.
> 
> 
> I've just realised the fun in being here again, most of you weren't around last time I posted majorly and as such pimping of shit like that is all new and stuff to you and not "Oh jesus Craig's off on one again".
> ...


I <3 Foley vs Owen from RAW too. We need to compare our gushing.

and best + funny = well...best for me. Mankind vs Rock empty arena match is the tops in their series. Terrific fun. The glorious side of what the "Attitude Era" produced. _(is it weird that I don't like to refer to the time frames as these specific eras?)_

-----------

In other news, WCW Sin is a righteous show. The late 2000 turnaround flowing into 2001 is VERY apparent. Cal & I are the only ones who seemed to notice. Damn shame AOL/Time Warner merger happened b/c WCW was honestly a fun, good product again in its final days. Wished it had a chance to continue. I've always been a WCW fanboy tho.

MENG had a killer match on this PPV, btw. Someone please don't act surprised. 8*D


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

MENG.



We begin the aforementioned ramble with:

*Triple H Vs Vince McMahon - Armageddon 1999*
This is... fine. Parts are very fun but its your typical big attitude era brawl, only difference is Vince being all crazy and shit throwing salt and uppercutting testicles. Needed trimmed by at least 10 minutes though. The Stephanie turn is done damn well though.

Oddly little to say about this, Vince is fucking mental for being willing to jump out the way of a car, think he misses it by like a fucking inch. Overall fine, watchable fun but overlong and doesn't come near the GOAT Vince matches.

**3/4


*
John Cena vs. King Booker vs. Mick Foley vs. Bobby Lashley vs. Randy Orton - Vengeance 2007 *

You know... I genuinely forgot this match existed until an hour ago when I randomly saw a youtube suggestion. I mean I'm typing this paragraph before I watch the match and its 10 minutes long so I'm not expecting greatness (Or even goodness) but this must be a contender for oddest main event for the last 10 years, right?

BUBBY LASHLEY. I'm aware I watched BUBBY, I'm aware I watched every episode of WWE TV he was on. I genuinely couldn't even tell you what his finisher was right now, all I can distinctly remember is him tipping a car onto Finlay which was awesome because FInlay was involved and therefore I was all tingly and shit.

Anyway so Booker goes out for a massage from Sharmell whilst the 3 faces beat up Orton, Foley does the Cactus clothesline and pretty much destroys his knee (How can you destroy that which is already dead you may ask? Staking it with a cross is one option, colliding into a ring apron is the second). 

BUBBY AND CENA FACE OFF, got a better crowd reaction that time Cena and Orton faced off in the Rumble but it was still pretty fucking bad, I really do wonder where Lashley would have gotten to in WWE if Kristal hadn't been fired, the eventual heel run would have been hillarious at least. OK FUCK IT, I was about to write that Bubby is rather dangerous looking in the ring style wise but he just hit a fucking beastly plancha, like the sort of thing HOF packages are made of so all is forgiven for the next 30 seconds. Has a decent spinebuster too.

I hate to say it because you know, favourite ever and all but jesus Foley looks rough in this match, don't know if its thanks to the knee injury from earlier or just general unfitness but he is fucking DONE like a minute into this. Also he did a horrific version of the ol' Foley stair bump, like jesus, he didn't roll over it he just goes straight into it and they don't budge, for a sec he looks like a Looney Tunes cartoon that's ran into a shelf (That makes sense to me..... fuck you).

According to JR Cena's best friend is his right hand, this'd be the point where Cal would make some obvious masturbation joke...........
I got nothing, fuck you; not even 10am yet as I write this. Swear to god JR has mentioned Orton's "handsome features" 5 times in like 8 minutes, was this common or did Pat Paterson take over Gorrila duties?

The match is.... good, surprisingly so, its a piece of quick fluff, everyone gets a moment to shine, the finish is a bit crap though, I can only assume they were running out of time a bit because this should have went 15 or so most likely, still surprisingly good for what it is.

***

Rambling may continue in a bit, or not... I just caved in and got another Netflix subscription and noticed that Beast Wars was on there so you can all go swivel (If they ever get Reboot on there then OH JESUSSSSSSSSSS)


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Is there anything worth watching from SD this week?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Random five man match from Vengeance is a bit on my "eh" pile. Largely b/c while I advocate chaos w/wrestling, it all depends on if I'm feeling it on that occasion. I don't really dislike that match to hate it or something, but it's a mess of the bleh variety. I don't remember much about it other than Foley bumping around & Lashley went through a table. What did Orton do in it? An RKO? Maybe stood around looking cocky? Booker T was involved? Seriously? See, stuff like that. I remember Cena was in it b/c well...he put Lashley through the table & won the match. Kind of hard to forget that.

Also, I thought Reboot was on Netflix? Perhaps that was only for Americans. I don't mean to get your hopes up.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm actually watching Brock/HHH (ER) atm. Brock ' s selling is still Oscar worthy, but still unessesary. Should have been a squash by Brock.

Moving onto Del Rio/Ziggler (Payback) in a bit.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yey multiple mentions of MEEEEEEE on the last page. I R STILL DEPRESSED BUT SLIGHTLY LESS SO .

That whole Vengeance 5 way is an odd match. Sometimes I forget it even EXISTS. Aside from Cena winning I remember bugger all. Foley was confusing around that time too, just like, randomly showing up and having matches including a main event WWE title shot? The fuck? Didn't he wrestle Carlito a few times too? I'm always happy to see Mick on TV but that whole "run" was unbelievably random and didn't exactly go anywhere .

I think I shall continue with my No Mercy 03 Ramblings. Cena/Angle is up next :mark:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What was HBK/Van Dam in '02 like?

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----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

So WCW Sin is quite the excellent show in my opinion.

The first 4 matches were :mark: I can't even pick a favorite because I enjoyed all 4 so much.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> I'm actually watching Brock/HHH (ER) atm. Brock ' s selling is still Oscar worthy, but still unessesary. Should have been a squash by Brock.
> 
> Moving onto Del Rio/Ziggler (Payback) in a bit.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Agreed, but still, Brock made me care when he was wounded. I commend him for such. Also, Paul Heyman baby. Standard lol @ Triple H's ego part and all that jazz.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Yey multiple mentions of MEEEEEEE on the last page. I R STILL DEPRESSED BUT SLIGHTLY LESS SO .
> 
> That whole Vengeance 5 way is an odd match. Sometimes I forget it even EXISTS. Aside from Cena winning I remember bugger all. Foley was confusing around that time too, just like, randomly showing up and having matches including a main event WWE title shot? The fuck? Didn't he wrestle Carlito a few times too? I'm always happy to see Mick on TV but that whole "run" was unbelievably random and didn't exactly go anywhere .
> 
> I think I shall continue with my No Mercy 03 Ramblings. Cena/Angle is up next :mark:.


Foley's bit vs Carlito was in 2005. Unless you're counting Foley circa 2003 return till about 2007 for that five way match as that "time".

No Mercy 2003 plz. idc if I dislike the main event, really swell show. Vince vs Steph <3

Also, WCW 2001 talk? No? 



The Hitman said:


> What was HBK/Van Dam in '02 like?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Terribly placed opinion, but from what I can VAGUELY remember, it was good w/an exciting false finish. I'm a big RVD fan, yo.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Cal what's your MOTN from Sin, I'm curious


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That stuff was 05? Well bugger me sideways. Could have sworn Foley/Carlito was Cyber Sunday 07, but nope, Taboo Tuesday 05 . So that was TWO random as fuck Foley "runs" .

WCW 2001 :mark:. STEINER mauling everyone was awesome. God, that Steiner Vs a bazzillion CW's match is still one of the funnest matches ever (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw5kvn_scott-steiner-vs-cruiserweights-wcw-nitro-feb-5th-2001_sport) and the Magnificent 7 group, while having some DUD members was an awesome heel faction at the time too. God I wish Steiner came over as champ for the Invasion.

Don't remember much about WCW Sin, but looking at the card, MENG VS FUNK looks like it was probably the MOTN .


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Hey Crowbar was in that match too, don't discredit him


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Crowbar was in it too...but yeah; it ended up being my favorite on the night too. Jung Dragons vs Knoble/Karagis(sp?) owned too despite the flubbed finish. CHAVO HAD A GOOD MATCH, btw. :hayley3

Yeah, I know. But screw you, he also has a killer match vs Mysterio on the next event iirc.

Awesome event despite the unfortunate way the main event had to be cut short. It was moving at a swift pace, but there was no way the plan was going to end that abruptly. Steiner crushing fools night in and night out, the right choice by WCW.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LOLCrowbar. Him and David Flair as a team :lmao. 

MENG ruled in the WCW hardcore division. HE WAS NEVER BEATEN either. Showed up at the RR :lmao. Wish they'd done more with him in WWF. At least stick him in their hardcore division.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

We could have had Kane vs Haku at WrestleMania :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Crowbar came through in the end. Starrcade match vs Funk owned. David Flair stuff...oh lordy.

MENG vs Kane. Please. I can't take the thought. Too much brilliance.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just add him to the triple threat and make it a 4 way. 3 guys for MENG to kill. MENG running around backstage throwing people through walls and glass windows? :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Now I'm a bit upset to know that match could have been even better.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> Changing the subject, Dean Malenko vs Scotty 2 Hotty from Backlash it's still awesome, ***1/2


Speaking of Deano - re-watched Starcade '96 - his match with Ultimo was :mark: 

Actually, Ultimo I flip back and forth between liking and fucking _despising._ On one hand, he's fun incorporating a really unique style, and can be really imaginative in there. On the other hand, he doesn't sell shit. Like, ever. Still, Dean's the man - that Backdrop and Brainbuster tho? :banderas He's got such a subtle swag, and when he shows you a little fire, the crowd feels it. Commentary is...WCW commentary. Usually it's terrible on the undercard, and this is hardly an exception. I don't even care for Tenay, with his pretension "known in Mexico as Ultimo DraGON" or "the AssAiEE Moonsault." fpalm

Commentary was *the* thing I hated about WCW shows, and probably why I easily slid into watching Japanese wrestling (b/c who gives a shit about commentary?). Still, ***3/4+ and an excellent example of the style at the time. Some skimpy selling and Ultimo's botch near the end keep it from being the true classic it should've been.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tenay has always been trash. Rest of the commentary I loved tho. Namely when Dusty was out there going bonkers on all the "new" stuff he was seeing. Heenan cracked jokes and Tony tried. I don't object. I'm into the match either way.

The Ultimo point is valid. For the best cases, most of the no selling hasn't translated to a major fault in some of his best WCW matches. For me, of course. Still really dig the Dean match. Peeved it never made the Starrcade set. Meanwhile - and I always find a way to piss on it - Austin vs Rhodes '93 is. Booooooo mainstream name appeal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*No Mercy 2003*

This show features an I Quit match... between Vince McMahon and... STEPHANIE MCMAHON :lmao.


*Tajiri Vs Rey Mysterio - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match*

Oh man, after enduring far too many Raw 03 PPV's lately, what better way to kick off a show I remember being GOOD, than TAJIRI? :mark:

And Rey Rey as his opponent? OH HELL YEAH!

What's this? CW match where they... lock up and fight for the advantage? Well, that's something different haha. Normally expect these guys to kick and fly around, but nope! I liked it tbh.

KICKS~! Rey blocked! Kick of his own! Rey Rey going after the LEGS of Tajiri, which is what Tazz claimed would be the smart thing for Rey to do, as it not only grounds the Japanese Buzzsaw, but prevents those lethal KICKS~!

:mark: Mysterio kicking the leg of Tajiri to prevent him from building momentum. DROPKCIK TO THE BACK to counter the handspring elbow :mark:. Mysterio is looking to knock off the champion here tonight and... ends up getting knocked off the apron himself. TAJIRI IN CONTROL :mark:. KICKS~!

Tajiri kicks the SHIT out of Mysterio's arm. Why? This ain't no Malenko/Rey match where Malenko is a retard and targets the arm because, fuck it, he wanted to. Instead, earlier in the match when Rey was going after the arm, Tajiri countered the only way he could into an arm bar, and since then Tajiri has been able to use it to his advantage.

:mark: at that 619. Awesome way to hit it.

:mark: at that powerbomb to counter the West Coast Pop :mark:. BRUTAL.

:mark: at that moonsault. PERFECT BALANCE :mark:.

MOAR KICKS TO THE ARM :mark:.

Tajiri is STILL selling the leg work from earlier in the match :mark:.

Another good way to set up a 619 :mark:.

DEBUT OF A TRIAD MEMBER :mark:. Not sure which one haha. Oh apparently it was... both? I only saw one lol.

KICK TO THE HEAD~! TAJIRI WINS~!

Well this makes up for all the putrid shite I put myself through with the Raw 03 PPV's. Great opener. I could watch these two all day.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*A-Train Vs Chris Benoit*

Albert shoves Benoit into the corner and tells him he "ain't nuffin" and Benoit clubs the shit out of Albert's face :mark:.

But the strength of Albert keeps sending Benoit to the outside, as he tries to get inside the crippler's head. However the fans chanting "shave your back" pretty much nullifies his mind games!

:mark: Big beefy bastard and BENOIT clubbing the shit out of each other. So much fun to watch.

Crazy to watch Albert in 03 and see just how fucking good the guy was, knowing what they did to him when they brought him back as Lord Tensai with a shitty gimmick and limited move set. And now he's "Jason Albert" doing commentary on NXT . At least we got a couple matches between him and Sheamus.

:mark: shades of VADER there with Albert clubbing (my fav word for this match atm haha) the shit out of Benoit's face in the corner. Love Benoit constantly trying to fight back and never letting Albert take full advantage of him. Reminds me of the Mr Kennedy shoot where he talks about how Benoit would call a spot but never simply "let" him do the move. You wanna suplex him? You gotta kick him in the gut first, punch him in the face maybe, rather than him just letting you do whatever you want. Always fighting. Makes things seem a little more "real" and more like a FIGHT.

Albert with a... GERMAN SUPLEX? :mark:

"GET YOUR ASS UP, CHRIS!" very encouraging fans in the front row. :lmao they are military :lmao.

STEEL CHAIR~!

OH MY FUCKING GOD. And that, folks, is how Benoit's head got fucked up so much. Seriously, that HAD to have been part of the problem. Fuck it, GIF TIME~!










Benoit makes a comeback right after! TRIPLE GERMANS TO FAT ALBERT~!

A headbutt attempt leads to Albert sending Benoit crashing to the mat. Albert signals for a heatbutt!!! But Benoit gets up and Albert decides against going up top .

KICK TO THE CHAIR~! Albert's leg gets caught up in the chair! SHARPSHOOTER! ALBERT TAPS OUT! Nice tribute to Stu Hart who passed away a few days before this event .

This fucking rules.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*Zack Gowen Vs Matt Hardy*

VEEEEEEEEEEEE ONEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

"Matt can not be grossed out" unless he imagines Edge with Lita 8*D.

"Matt has survived five car wrecks" 6th time the charm then? :side:

Insane when you think about it; WWE hired a 1 legged wrestler and put him in numerous PPV matches and big angles. And he was the SECOND one legged wrestler, because BIG JOHNNY HIRED THE WRONG ONE FIRST :lmao. Should have kept him and made a tag team :side:.

Man, Gowen bumps like a fucking champ. THAT LARIAT~!

:lmao Cole openly admits on commentary that Gowen ain't gonna win this match.

MOONSAULT~! GOWEN WINS! COLE LOOKS STUPID! HA!

Fun match.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*APA Vs The Basham Brothers*

Thankfully that shemale isn't out with the Basham's because JBL clotheslined him to hell.

APA spend the first part of this match just killing this new team :mark:.

:lmao oh man that jawbreaker from Danny Basham on Farooq gave me flashbacks to Undertaker/Kronic. Surprised Farooq didn't scream "fuck" or at least punch him in the face :lmao.

APA seem to be playing both heels and faces in this, attacking behind the referee's back while still getting cheered because watching the APA beat someone up is always awesome.

Farooq gets a nice rest while the Basham's take turns at sitting in rest holds with him. Meanwhile Bradshaw keeps running in and smashing someone's face in because he's bored .

HOT TAG~! Bradshaw murders everyone. All is right with the world.

LAST CALL~!

The other Basham tries to sneak a top rope move... but Farooq holds onto him and he ends up getting a SUPPER LAST CALL~!

:lmao terrible ref bump.

CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL~!

Urgh, the shemale shows up and smacks Bradshaw with a sex toy or something and the Basham's pick up the win.

Most fun stuff.

:lmao turns out the Clothesline from Hell to the shemale was so he could get breast implants :lmao.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Vince McMahon Vs Stephanie McMahon - Father-Daughter I Quit Match*

:lmao oh man WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?

Stephanie during the build up to this seems shocked that Vince would do this sort of stuff. This is the guy that had UNDERTAKER KIDNAP HER 4 years earlier.

VINCE ATTACKS HIS OWN DAUGHTER FROM BEHIND :lmao.

Man, Vince is getting some MAJOR fucking heat during this. Not only beating up his own Daughter, but protecting Sable from his own wife :lmao.

Cole going apeshit on commentary is :lmao too. WHAT SABLE, ARE YOU GONNA BE THE NEW SD GM IF STEPHANIE LOSES? HUH? IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT? YOU BITCH! :lmao

:lmao at Linda attacking Sable. SLAP TO VINCE~! LOW BLOW~! LOW BLOW WITH A STEEL PIPE~!

Huh, so Stephanie can win this by pin. Ok.

Stephanie looks to deck Vince with the pipe, Vince tries to act all sorry, and Stephanie beats the shit out of him anyway :lmao.

VINCE HITS STEPHANIE WITH THE FUCKING PIPE~! Vince is THE ULTIMATE HEEL.

CHOKING STEPH WITH THE PIPE NOW! Linda throws in the towel as Stephanie refuses to give up. Vince wins, Stephanie loses her job at GM and marries HHH a few days later .

I'm not sure where I stand with this match. It's fucking crazy and almost unratable :lmao. That being said, I did LIKE it. It's not a bad match, it's just weird . Fuck it. STARS~!

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Kurt Angle Vs John Cena*

:mark:

Not often I look forward to an Angle match. And certainly a rarity to look forward to a match between these two.

Rapping Kurt is the greatest thing ever :lmao.

Dual chants for both men here, something Cena would get as a babyface too .

CENA HAS STREET CRED

:lmao at Angle avoiding a big right hand from Cena and flipping him off.

Cena gets destroyed early on as Angle out wrestles him, so Cena tries to get Angle to FIGHT him, where he thinks he'll have the advantage. Angle beats the fuck out of him still :lmao.

CLOTHESLINE~! Looked brutal. 

:lmao Angle is STILL out fighting Cena. Angle is beating some RESPECT into Cena.

RUNNING SHOULDER from Kurt to Cena in the corner looked insane, almost as if Cena was supposed to MOVE because Angle was going 100 mile an hour like he wanted to crash into the ring post. But nope. Cena didn't move. Looked cool and I'm not entirely sure it wasn't supposed to happen that way but oh well .

Angle goes for it again in another corner and this time Cena DOES move and Angle crashes into the ring post. Time for Cena to control things.

ANGLE IS BLEEDING FROM THE MOUTH. And nobody knows why :lmao. Must have been the hard way then.

Cena's control segment ain't the greatest thing to start with, as he just sits there in a front face lock for a little while. But luckily Angle gets to make a number of comeback attempts and THIS is where Cena does well in the match; cutting the bastard off.

DDT ON THE APRON :mark:.

THAT LEGDROP :mark:.

Angle keeps making comeback attempts (GERMAN SUPLEXES~!) and Cena keeps cutting him off in pretty awesome ways. He looks more STIFF AND GRITTY with his brawling too, something he honestly kinda sucks at today.

CORNER POWERBOMB~! Fuck me Angle took that like a true champ. Awesome.

F-U~! And Angle kicks out :lmao.

ANGLE SLAM~! And Cena kicks out :lmao. 

CHAIN~! Angle realises he can't beat Angle clean. The ref takes it away, and while his back is turned, Cena pulls out Angle's gold medals and decks him in the face!!!

ANGLE KICKS OUT~! Of course he does .

Bunch of fun counters as both men try for their finisher again and... ANKLE LOCK~!

CENA TAPS OUT!!! CENA TAPS OUT!!!

Still a great match for sure. Cena's best match probably until like, uhhh... fuck, maybe until 2007.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*Eddie Guerrero Vs The Big Show - United States Championship Match*

:mark: forgot this was on the show :mark:. Was looking at the time left and wondered what else would happen with 50 mins left and me only remembering Lesnar/Taker.

Damn, that attack involving the car looked brutal. Props to Eddie for taking that. His back is covered in marks and cuts and scars from the very REAL glass that was still in the car.

:mark: at Eddie trying to escape Show and ground him, but not being big or strong enough to make any kind of mark on the giant.

:mark: at Show mauling the back of Eddie.

:lmao Lie, Cheat and Steal Eddie comes out to play, throwing a chair into the ring which causes the ref to get rid of it, then he decks Show with a garbage can lid to the head. Probably should have done the opposite since the chair would have hurt more but oh well .

Fuck, those back bumps into the ring post. Poor Eddie's back .

I'M GONNA BREAK YOU!

Fuck the fans chanting boring btw. Dumb cunts.

Poor referee. Show throws Eddie onto him when he kicks out of a pin, then Show goes to leg drop Eddie who is still on the referee... but Eddie moves and Nick Patrick is DEAD.

BRASS KNUCKS~!

Referee has recovered enough to make a 2 count! LOL. Good job he wasn't the ref for Undertaker/HHH WM 17. He would have gotten back up from the elbow drop 20 seconds later and counted both men out .

US TITLE TO THE FACE~!

FROG SPLASH~!

KICK OUT? 

MONSTER CHOKESLAM~!

Eddie is DONE. New US champion... NO?!!! FOOT ON THE ROPES! EDDIE IS STILL IN THIS THING!!!

LOW BLOW & DDT~! Can Eddie keep this up? Can Eddie WIN? :mark:

Another chokeslam in the middle of the ring, and Eddie can't escape from this one. NEW CHAMP.

Great match. Fuck the fans.

Poor Eddie, lost his title and feels like shit, and what happens? Chavo Jr shows up. Bad day just got worse. Get that useless moo away from Eddie!

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*Brock Lesnar Vs The Undertaker - WWE Championship Biker Chain Match*

:mark:

PUNCHES :mark:.

Love Undertaker working the arm early on as he usually does, which sets up to Old School, but Lesnar knows it's coming and rams 'Taker into the corner instead and we get both guys tied up throwing big punches to each other's KIDNEYS :mark:.

Undertaker gets closer to doing Old School again but Lesnar still won't let him execute it, and it results in Lesnar taking a bit of a beating lol.

OLD SCHOOL~! Undertaker finally has Lesnar weakened enough to land it... and then he follows it up with some crazy Lucha roll up!!! Lesnar is FREAKED OUT by that and gets his arse to the outside :lmao.

OUTSIDE BRAWLING :mark:. TAKER DOING HIS "KNEES INTO THE STEEL STEPS" SPOT. Which I'm fairly certain he stole from FOLEY. But when you nearly kill a man twice in ONE MATCH I think you can steal anything you want from him and he ain't gonna say shit .

They battle in the ring for a while, both guys landing some awesome shots btw, and then Undertaker sends Lesnar crashing down neck first onto the ropes which gives him a chance to climb the pole to grab the chain!

LIGHTS OUT~!

When they come back on, Lesnar is back up and preventing the Not So Dead Man from grabbing the deadly chain!

:mark: @ every time Undertaker makes a comeback with those big punches. Guy rules at punching.

PILEDRIVER ON THE STEEL STEPS~! BY UNDERTAKER~! AND IT WASN'T A TOMBSTONE VERSION~!

:mark:

Again Undertaker tries to climb the pole, but Lesnar again interferes only to end up stuck in a triangle choke!!!

How does Lesnar respond? UPPERCUT TO THE BALLS~!

Fucking hell, Undertaker tries to deck Lesnar with the steel steps, but Lesnar ducks and Undertaker ends up lobbing the steps over the ropes and very fucking nearly hits his own bike :lmao.

LESNAR GOES FOR THE CHAIN~! GETS CAUGHT IN A LAST RIDE~! LESNAR COUNTERS~! DOUBLE CLOTHESLINE~! :mark:

PUNCH EXCHANGE~!

Chokeslam countered into a spinbuster! Lesnar tries to make a cover and gets sucked in to another triangle choke!!!

LESNAR POWERS OUT WITH A POWERBOMB :mark:.

DRAGON SLEEPER AKA TAKIN' CARE OF BUSINESS~!

TCB COUNTERED INTO AN F-5!!!

"THE VETERAN THE UNDERTAKER GOT HIS BOTTOM... HIS FOOT ON THE BOTTOM ROPE" :lmao well done Cole.

CHOKESLAM FROM THE TOP ROPE! Undertaker decides against the cover and instead goes after the chain!

BUT WAIT, IT'S THE FBI! SOMEBODY PUT A HIT OUT ON THE UNDERTAKER?!?!

'Taker fucks em up and gives Lesnar a Last Ride!!!

DEAD MAN DIVE OVER THE ROPES TO TAKE OUT THE FBI!!! :mark: How the fuck did he have enough energy left to do that?

:lmao NUNZIO goes for the chain and gets knocked off the pole (above the turnbuckle!!!) to the floor! UNDERTAKER HAS THE CHAIN!

VINCE MCMAHON! VINCE SHOVES UNDERTAKER OFF THE ROPES! VINCE HAS JUST SCREWED THE UNDERTAKER!

LESNAR HAS THE CHAIN! SHOT TO THE FUCKING FACE! UNDERTAKER IS DONE.

:mark: this match still fucking rules. Two big bastards beating the absolute shit out of each other. Love it.

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 21.5*​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That review has inspired me to dig out my NM DVD and try and watch it later, Thankyou.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

God bless Smackdown from that era.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vince vs Steph > FUCK IT, STARZ

:mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Now I'm a bit upset to know that match could have been even better.


MENG chasing Raven in a golf cart while doing his "hush na huhhuhu" grunts......

Definitely watching No Mercy 2003 today, that event looks swell. I've seen Rey Rey/Tajiri on Smackdown, never on No Mercy though.


Cal I think you might have underrated Benoit/A-Train by a tad. I remember that match being GREAT, with loads of stiff punches to the face and an exemplary FIP segment from Benoit.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Vince/Steph I Quit is fantastic. Tazz and Cole's commentary was so :mark:. McMahon's firing on all cylinders in that one. Fun match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was bouncing the idea around of going ***3/4 for it but settled on ***1/2 (Benoit/TensAlberTrain)

Man, MENG in that hardcore match at WM 17 could have been such awesomeness. Imagine him punching through a wall to apply the TONGA DEATH GRIP, or punching through the window to apply the TONGA DEATH GRIP. Really was such a shame they barely used him . At least we got some TAGS against UNDERTAKER and a singles match against UNDERTAKER too. I might go watch their singles match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Linky to Meng/Taker plz?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This world has been robbed of all glory because King Haku vs. King Sheamus never manifested.

That review also makes me want to go through No Mercy 2003 minus the main event. 2003 Vince is GOAT. Cena/Angle is a top ten match for both men and is exactly what I want in a wrestling match. Exactly. Benoit/Trainbert condensed a lot of good stuff in a short period. Mysterio/Tajiri is :mark:. Gowen/Hardy and everything Gowen in 2003 is a guilty pleasure of mine. Most of all though, I can't wait to see SHANIQUA do her thing :side:.

You and/or SMITTY should skip to doing 2008 PPV reviews. One of the best years ever for the company in terms of PPVs, and tons and tons of :taker. Give me a reason for you guys not to do it, KillaCal/SMITTY.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I actually started with 2008 . The No Mercy 08 was the first non WM/RR "ramble" I did. I liked it and decided to do PPV years in a similar style and started with 2000 so I could avoid all the trash pre-2000 (seriously, in WWE, how many genuinely GOOD PPV's are there before 2000?). I'll do 08 when I've finished 03. And done 04. Then 05. And 06. Then uhhhh... 07. That should leave me 08 .


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Eddie winning the title on the Network right now, brothers. :mark: One of the greatest moments in history for me. I actually mark more for this ending that the WM XX ending. 

Extreme Rules 2012 next :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Eddie winning the title is on whenever the fuck I want thanks to those DVD things .

Same for ER 2012, only that's on Bluray .

Undertaker/Haku time :mark:. No idea if it's online to watch, whoever asked about it. Raw Jan 29th 2001 if you wanna look for it. If you can't find it I will upload it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I get that I can watch it anytime, but there's something about it streaming on a schedule. Kind of like TV. Whatever. 

This Booker T commentary is already :lmao


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Extreme Rules 2012 on the network :mark: :mark: :mark:

Probably just gonna sit here and watch the whole thing


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Well shit that No Mercy 03 ppv sounds pretty awesome.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Can anyone find a PPV with a better triple main event than Extreme Rules 2012?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I quite like the triple main event of SummerSlam 13 (Christian/ADR, Punk/Lesnar, Bryan/Cena)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Don't know about triple main event, but the greatest double main event is Backlash 2004, imo.

Also haven't seen Kane/HHH from No Mercy 2002, but off the strength of Benoit/Angle vs Mysterio/Edge and Taker/Brock, that event is up there for great multi-main events.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Fully Loaded 2000 comes close. I actually like Taker/Angle for what it is.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Completely forgot about the trifecta at Beach Blast 92. Very strong candidate, but I would rank the matches this way:

Rude/Steamboat
Cena/Lesnar
Bryan/Sheamus
Punk/Jericho
Sting/Foley
Steiners/MVC

Might also take Summerslam 2013 over Beach Blast. Backlash 2004 is probably the GOAT double main event though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Eddie winning the title is on whenever the fuck I want thanks to those DVD things .
> 
> Same for ER 2012, only that's on Bluray .
> 
> Undertaker/Haku time :mark:. No idea if it's online to watch, whoever asked about it. Raw Jan 29th 2001 if you wanna look for it. If you can't find it I will upload it.


Yeah if you could upload it Cal. I looked online before, didn't see it anywhere.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

What the tits happened at Backlash 2004? Someone needs to remind me.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Benoit/HBK/HHH rematch + Foley/Orton street fight


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Never seen that triple threat re-match. Orton/Foley I like but don't love tbh.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm sure I'll get to 08 ppvs eventually, only one I have reviewed atm is mania

meanwhile..










*Armageddon 2000 review

Match #1: The Hardy boys and Lita vs The Radicalz 
*
Could be a fun match here, Lita being involved is fap worthy and could bring some added excitement into the match, however my faith in this show is LOW so I don’t really have high expectations for anything par the :mark: worthy main event. Easily the best part in this match is when Lita SPEARS THE FUCK out of Terri :mark:, that was so fucking awesome. This match was really clunky and relyed on SPOTZ up until the part where it came down to Malenko and Lita, thought that was a really unique way to go for the finishing stretch, I thought it would be Jeff or Matt in the final 2 but this was the better way to do it. Lita looked like a HUGE slut in this match, wearing probably the flimsiest shit I have ever seen her wear, and this was a GOOD think of course . Well anyways besides the final 2-3 minutes this was nothing really at all, its just to clunky and messy for the most part for me to really enjoy it. Not horrible by any means but still not very good at all despite the unique finishing stretch. ** 

CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #2: William Regal vs Hardcore Holly 
*
Well if anyone can get a shitty match out of the GAWD William Regal its fucking Hardcore Holly, that man literally scares me with how easy it is for him to have a bad match with fucking fantastic workers (see Royal Rumble 2004). This match was just as bad as I suspected it was going to be. Wouldn’t even say it was 100% Holly’s fault too. I mean, he was shitty in it, but so was Regal, and this broke my heart . Match ended when Raven came down from the back and DDT’d Holly so Regal picked up the tainted win, pretty standard ending to a boring match that brought nothing to the table. Somehow Holly managed to have a shitty match with Regal too fpalm. *1/4*

CAL SCALE: 0

Match #3: Val Venis vs Chyna 

:bosh NO 

CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #4: Chris Jericho vs Kane *

Ugh, I’m pretty sure this match was the one I have heard is the rolling shits, whatever that means. Also think that 2000 Jericho is pretty shitty besides a few matches with Benoit and I’ve never thought much of Kane, I think hes a bit underrated but I find him too inconsistent. Welp this sucked really bad, just horrible throughout as it was just a boring brawl from start to finish, some cool SPOTZ but they really didn’t add anything to the match whatsoever, the backstage part was fun I guess but it really wasn’t anything special at all, would expect more from these two as I thought I read that there other matches are quite good, I guess they didn’t click tonight for whatever reason. Finish is really shitty because they used the traditional ending of “Drop something heavy on the big guy”. BORING. Match is unbelievably slow too, almost too Taker/Mabel levels :|. Ok maybe not that bad but this still was horrible. *1/4*

CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #5: Edge & Christian Vs The Dudley Boys Vs The Godfather & Bull Buchanan Vs Road Dogg & K-Kwik
*
WHATS UP? Oh its not R-Truth, its K-Kwik, this guy has been in WWE for way too long( was his TNA stint good?) so its time to hang up the boots and realize you never could fucking wrestle. Match here should be OK but 2 teams should just fuck off because the Dudleys and E&C have pretty good chemistry. Road Dogg and K-kwik sing when they come out to the ring, Christians face though :lmao but srsly they should never sing. Match is alright, for sure MOTN so far which is pretty fucking embarrassing tbh, it is legit the first match to be over * right now. The sequences of the match involving the Dudleyz and E&C in the ring at the same time are fantastic, yet some other points in the match drag big time, I still hate the whole 4 corners concept, really should be 4 guys in the ring at the same time, would make for a much better match. ***3/4 

CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #6: Billy Gunn vs Chris Benoit* 

So this will suck because Billy Gunn as a singles worker= . :lmao at Billy Gunn’s hair though. This was the WWF's last attempt at foisting Billy Gunn on the public. There was a time when he actually had potential as a singles star, but this was not that time. Basically for the whole match Gunn hits a bunch of power moves but then Benoit jut ends up putting him in the crossface for the win, making every move Billy just did look shitty as fuck . Match is..OK, better than I expected for sure but still nothing to write home about, because for the most part it’s bad especially the parts when Billy Gunn is in control. Benoits control segments are fun at times but I wouldn’t say it is even close to his best work at all. Somehow it is the #3 MOTN so far and I didn’t really like it at all, says a lot about this show tbh. **

CAL SCALE: 0

Match #7: Ivory vs. Trish Stratus vs. Molly Holly.*

:mark: for Trish but not watching because womens wrestling sucks for the most part :hb:. *NO 

CAL SCALE: -1* 

Match #8: Rikishi vs Steve Austin vs The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle vs HHH vs The Rock 

Jesus Christ this match is STACKED full of awesome talent, in a perfect world Benoit would replace Rikishi but this match should still be AMAZEBALLS. How I haven’t seen it before amazes me tbh. Austin's pop in this is fucking MASSIVE, put everyone elses to shame, even Rocks. Loved the use of the cell in this match though, :mark: for Austin dragging HHH all around the cell wall, that was fucking awesome, looked painful as fuck too. :lmao at Vince and his minions coming out to the ring on top of the flatbed truck. and :lmao at him hurting himself getting off of it too fpalm. Austin hitting HHH with the sound equipent :mark: that was awesome, now hes hitting him with the truck too :mark:. Match is overall just 30 minutes of :mark: and awesomeness, one of the more fun matches I've seen. HOLY SHIT AT THAT CELL SPOT :mark: IDGAF if it was corny that was fucking awesome :mark: for sure a top 5 cell spot :mark:. So yeah I fucking love this match, gonna give it a really good rating because it was AWESOME. IDK if its top 10 HIAC quality but its pretty close if not. Fantastic match that is the epitome of CHAOS and how that can translate into :mark: worthy matches.* ****

CAL SCALE: 5 

TOTAL CAL SCALE: 4 

Current 2000 PPV ratings 

1: Judgment day (20)
2: The Royal Rumble (17)
3: WrestleMania 2000(13)
4: Insurrextion (8.5)
5: Armageddon(4)
*​


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Flux said:


> Benoit/HBK/HHH rematch + Foley/Orton street fight


Two ★★★★¾ if not ★★★★★ matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Hitman said:


> Yeah if you could upload it Cal. I looked online before, didn't see it anywhere.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4nkuP04g3IFua65OAN


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I may actually prefer the BL 04 triple threat to the mania one tbh

I'd probably go w/ Summerslam 13 as the better triple main event


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ER 2012 is probably the best triple main event off the top of my head.

Lensar/Cena ****3/4
Bryan/Sheamus ****1/4
Punk/Jericho ***1/2

SS 13 comes close with

Punk/Lesnar ****1/2
Bryan/Cena ***3/4
Del Rio/Christian ***1/2


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

ER 2012 

Bryan/Sheamus: ****1/2 
Punk/Jericho:***3/4 
Cena/Lesnar:*****

SS 2013
ADR/Christian:***1/2 
Punk/Lesnar:****3/4 
Bryan/Cena:****

About to watch SD, hopefully its good


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4nkuP04g3IFua65OAN


(Y) Thanks.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just finished Bryan/Sheamus :mark: Taking time to post while Ryback buries two jobbers amidst Goldberg chants.

Punk/Lesnar and Bryan/Cena are two classics for me, with Christian/Rio being a solid third main event. Guess I feel the same about ER, with Punk/Jericho coming up just short. Fuck that story they did with Punk/Jericho though. Really hurt it a bit.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> ER 2012 is probably the best triple main event off the top of my head.
> 
> Lensar/Cena ****3/4
> Bryan/Sheamus ****1/4
> ...



I think you and almost everyone, really, vastly underrate the sheer excellence that is ADR/Christian SS 2013. That match is downright beautiful to watch, everything flows perfectly and things keep building and building to the excellent climax, an exemplarary "Christian style" match up.

Extreme Rules Main Events:

Cena/Brock: ****3/4
Punk/Jericho: ***1/2
Bryan/Sheamus: ****1/2

Averag rating: 4.25

Summerslam Main Events:

Punk/Lesnar: *****
Bryan/Cena: ****1/4
ADR/Christian: ****

Average rating: 4.41

Winner: Summerslam 2013 by a hair. Extreme Rules has a good Kane/Orton match that helps boost it, as SS 2013 undercard was mostly blah. So we shall call it a tie.

However: BeachBlast 1992

Steamboat/Rude: *****
Foley/Sting: ****1/2
Steiner's/MVC: ****1/4

Average rating: 4.58

Winner winner chicken dinner, BeachBlast 1992. Has a great undercard too.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I was talking with a friend about the Rollins/Ambrose FCW series and when I came on to their 4th match, my mind completely drew a blank and I decided to rewatch it, and fuck me... How did I forget about it? After this watch I think it's skyrocketed to the top in terms of the series. Rollins comes in with an injured arm and a disgusting bruise on his bicep, similar to Sheamus' bruise on his thigh, and he sells it fantastically. Every little thing he or Ambrose does, his reaction is to his arm. I suppose that should be unsurprising though as I bet it generally did hurt. Ambrose' offense was gritty with a lot of little nuances, very similar to Regal in fact. He didn't just apply an armbar, he applied an armbar and dug his nails in to the bruise. He ground his knuckles along the muscle, making me wince even watching it. On top of that, add the story of the ongoing rivalry between the two and the familiarity being so high, it's just an absolute blast to sit though. 

Nothing fancy, no high paced exchanges and no particular highspots, just general bossyness from both men.






Edit: Any recommendations for me to watch? Certain wrestlers or matches? Cant be arsed with a full show


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cal/Cody/Cock/Yeah/anyone, what would you recommend from Bruiser Brody? I just read that touching piece by Zeb Colter about Brody's death, and now I wanna see his best work. Unfortunately, the last time I tried to binge on Brody, I honestly thought he was kinda bad. Hopefully with this new appreciation of brawlers, I'll enjoy him.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Who is COCK? :ti


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Just a random greatness, because I doubt many people would be interested to watch his AJPW or WWC work.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

*Extreme Rules 2012*

BROCK THE ASSKICKER IS BACK :mark: AND HE'S CUTTING PROMOS DAMN IT :mark: 

What's running down Cena's leg? PISS. But they edited that out for the video package :kobe2

*Falls Count Anywhere - Randy Orton vs Kane*

The build for this match :lmao Attacking each other's fathers :lmao Kane not giving a fuck about Bearer getting kidnapped :lmao So, in two programs during this time, families/family history were involved in the build. Dat creative team doe. 

Oh fuck Booker T is on commentary fpalm but also :lmao

You wanna talk about punches? Talk about KANE then. His uppercuts are so :mark:, and he lays some pretty nice body shots here. Orton's dropkick is near the entrance also :mark:. 

Having a difficult time getting invested in this match, as it's a just a brawl around the arena. They get up in the room where WWE people are watching the show backstage. And lookie here - Zach Ryder :lmao :lmao Kane no selling Ryder :lmao :buried They work there way back to the ring and Orton does his robot clothesline out of the corner and hits his power slam (so glad Orton quit calling this a scoop slam. Still took like, two years before someone got him and corrected him). CHAIR SHOTS. Booker T :lmao RANDY ORTON GOING TO DAT PLACE. Orton hits his DDT with Kane hanging off the announce table for a good nearfall. They're both up, and Orton looks for the RKO, but Kane shoots him into the ring post, and gets a nearfall of his own. Back into the ring, and Kane climbs to the top rope, seemingly looking for his flying clothesline, but Orton hits the top rope. Pretty nice superplex from Orton. Kane looks for the tombstone but Orton counters out and his the RKO on the chair for the 1-2-3. This is okay, but I didn't really enjoy it until they got back to the ring. I feel like they just brawled for the sake of the Falls Count Anywhere stip, and worked in a couple pin attempts out of obligation. Good way to start the show, however.

PEOPLE POWER :lol EVE :kobe4 Teddy Long :ti Laurinaitis' ring tone :lol

*Brodus Clay vs Dolph Ziggler*

Ugh Brodus :StephenA Don't miss at all. Or that stupid ass intro. Oh he had Hornswaggle with him fpalm Cole :burieding it though. Forgot Cole was still a semi-heel around this time. Good work. DOLPH. Pretty sure he bumps and jobs here. Dem Ziggler chants (Y) More Booker T goodness: "Dolph Ziggler is a guy you need to keep your eye on, because he's good." Dat insight. Brodus kicking out a one after the Fameasser :kobe You know, it's pretty disappointing what they did with Brodus. He could probably be a pretty decent midcard monster heel, but they stuck him with a shit gimmick, and fucked him up bad. Then they gave his music to that Woods fella, turned him, and who knows where he is. All that said, I don't really miss him, because WWE didn't give me a reason to care about him. Ziggler bumped well for him here. 

Segment replayed from the pre-show where Teddy spins the wheel to find out what kind of match the Intercontinental Title match. TABLES match. Oh yeah, just remembered how this ends :ti

*Tables Match for the Intercontinental Title - Big Show vs Cody Rhodes*

So Big Show had just gotten his Wrestlemania moment at 28, winning the Intercontinental title for the first time. Face Big Show is the worst Big Show. Only because they make him smile and be a teddy bear. Cody :mark: I really dislike how they rattle off names of people who have held the title to make it seem prestigous at the time. Cody was probably the last IC champ that mattered. Before then, who knows. Cody sells those chops from Big Show really well, and just bumps well in general. Disaster kick spot off the propped up table was pretty cool. Nice different way to counter someone trying to put you through the table. Damn the finish just comes from outta nowhere :lmao :lmao Show climbing back into the ring and Cody hits a dropkick and Show STEPPED through the table. The look on his face :lmao Spear to Cody though fpalm Big Show putting Cody through a table for really no reason. This booking was actually pretty stupid and unnecessary. And Cody goes through another table. Fuck off. Seriously. At least Cody had the belt back. Heel won the match clean, but the face is a sore loser. More creative GOATness.

Daniel Bryan interview :mark: Bryan :burieding Striker. And bad teachers. Bryan gets more chicks than Sheamus :lmao Bryan's not weighed down by corned beef :lmao Crowd :mark:ing for Bryan until he fires a cheap heat comment at them. AJ lurking in the background :deandre

*Two out of Three Falls Match for the World Heavyweight Title - Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus*

The match that should have happened at Mania. 18 seconds fpalm Bryan sure does cut better promos as a heel, but the stuff he's given now is crap, and he's forced to be a smiling twat like most of the other faces. Bryan kicking AJ to the curb was an entertaining segment. Bryan trolling Sheamus as referee :lmao That whole program was actually pretty entertaining. Bryan did pretty well as a heel then. Also, is it too much to ask for Bryan to go back to this look? His beard is contained, and his hair is clean cut. Seriously. Dat heat for Sheamus :mark: Dat 18 seconds shirt fpalm 


Really fun mat exchange early on, with Bryan working to lock in the LaBell lock, and Sheamus using the Cloverleaf, but Bryan getting to the ropes fairly quick. Sheamus then looks to go back to the Cloverleaf, but Bryan counters into an inside cradle. Bryan looks for his flying knee off the apron, but Sheamus catches him and puts him back-first into the barricade. Really neat submission with Bryan putting one arm of Sheamus in a hammerlock, and pulling the other straight back and prying the fingers. Sheamus fights out but Bryan regains control with a knee to the midsection as Sheamus comes off the ropes. Sheamus makes a nice comeback and man, that raised knee that he does coming off the ropes is freaking stiff. Love it. Bryan kicking the rope while Sheamus' head is against the turnbuckle is pretty cool. Good nearfall off Sheamus' flying shoulder from the tope. Sheamus looks for his High Cross, but Bryan counters into a rollup, where Sheamus kicks out at two. Nice exchange with Bryan looking to lock in the Labell Lock. Attack is focused on Sheamus' shoulder after he side steps Sheamus and runs him into the ring post. Follows that up with running him into the post on the outside, and continues the attack with a ton of kicks to the shoulder, causing him to get disqualified. That smile when he gets DQ'd :lol Knowing that he's got Sheamus on the ropes (figuratively and literally), he lands his dropkick in the corner, and immediately locks in the Labell Lock, wearing Sheamus all the way down to were he passes out. Actually a pretty great way to make Bryan look strong (including his submission finisher) and it makes Sheamus look good for not tapping out. As the medic's look at Sheamus, the crowd seranades us with dueling Yes/No chants. Sheamus is back to his feet after coming back to, and Bryan runs in at full speed, and Sheamus catches him with a sick Broque Kick, is too worn to make a quick cover, allowing Bryan the time to regain himself and kick out at 2. Both guys work back to their feet, but Bryan is first, unloading with his kicks, with Sheamus trying to fight back, but Bryan lands a nasty kick to the side of the head, and it sold beautifully. Big nearfall ther. Bryan to the top rope, but Sheamus meets him, and the two have an exchange up there, with Sheamus looking for a superplex, which Bryan fights off with headbutts, knocking Sheamus to the mat. Bryan looks for his flying headbutt, but Sheamus is able to find enough wherewithall to roll out of dodge. Bryan looks again for his running dropkick in the corner, but Sheamus dodges that as well. Sheamus follows up his clubbing axe handles with his Irish Curse. As Bryan gets back to his feet, Sheamus is ready and queued up for the Brogue Kick, getting the second fall for himself, and retaining the World Title. I suppose I would have liked for Bryan to at least dodge that kick and have a bit more exciting finish, but that was such an exciting match, with Bryan looking so strong and being able to prove (in storyline) that the 18 second loss was indeed a fluke. This may be my favorite match on this card, for the pure wrestling. Just amazing, and joy to watch. 

Ryback handicap match, and his two opponents are cutting a promo. Goldberg chants from Chicago. Going to make a sandwich. 

Backstage interview with Punk. DAT POP. You'd think he was from there or something. Punk cutting a less than interesting face promo. Heel Punk promo pls. The sobriety test they did :StephenA 

*Chicago Street Fight for the WWE Title - Chris Jericho vs CM Punk*

Fuck this build. Fuck it hard. This couldn't just be The Best vs The Best? Ooh, EVE'S TITS IN THE VIDEO PACKAGE THOUGH. :mark: 

Every time I watch this I wonder if it's weird for his family to shout "Come on Punk!". Would have liked to hear someone slip and say "Let's Go, Phil!" lel at Punk slipping off the rope when going for his flying clothesline. I guess Jericho was going to catch him in mid-air with the kendo stick, but he did well to just start striking with that stick. Jericho pulling out the beer cans fpalm Pretty standard with the heel taking to much time taunting and Punk getting a chance to make his comeback. Punk doing his heel kick with the kendo stick was kind of nifty. I really miss Punk doing his bulldog off the Shining Wizard. More impact than just the clothesline, I think. Exchange between the two on the top rope, with Jericho looking for a superplex, which Punks counters out and knocks Jericho off, giving him the opportunity to the elbow from the top for a close nearfall. The two are back up, with Punk offering strikes, but Jericho counters and hits a bulldog of his own. He looks for the lionsault, but Punk stops him before he even gets off the middle rope. Punks looks for the GTS, but Jericho slips out, and catches him in a rollup for a close 2 count. Jericho gets what he can of a Codebreaker, and locks in the Walls of Jericho, which is initially the Liontamer, which to me seems more painful and is pretty impossible to get out of. But WWE treats the Boston Crab version of the Walls as the original, and anything else is "modified". I'm glad they didn't make Jericho break the hold when Punk got to the ropes. (Sometimes they do that crap, like inside a fucking chamber match.) I always chuckle a little when Punk reaches for the fire extinguisher. The two fight to the outside and Punk catches Jericho with his roundhouse kick, sending Jericho onto the Spanish announce table (surprised it lasted this long, tbhunter), giving Punk the chance to hit his elbow drop from the top, this time with Jericho on the table. Punk rolls Jericho back in and only gets a two count off the elbow drop. Jericho lands a strong Codebreaker with a chair, that I'm surprised they did, as that should have probably been a finish. Still a great nearfall though. Pretty cool finish then, with Jericho hoisting Punk up on his shoulders, seemingly looking to use Punk's GTS against him, but Punk fights out, catapulting Jericho into the previously exposed turnbuckle, and landing a pretty strong GTS for the 1-2-3, retaining his WWE title. Still not nearly as high as I used to be on this match, but there are moments that are enjoyable. The crowd being super hot for this match (and the rest of the card for that matter) really adds a ton to it.

EVE :kobe4: Backstage segment with Beth and the Bellas. Beth isn't cleared to wrestled. lel Nikki had the title. Nikki thinks that because Beth can't wrestle, that she's off tonight. Eve says she has a surprise opponent. Surprised I remembered all that, as I was staring at Eve's tits. :kobe4

*Divas Title - Nikki Bella vs Layla*

Layla returns for this match after being gone for a year with a knee injury. Debating whether to sit for this or go pee. Think I'll go pee. Apparently Layla won, but they had pulled Twin Magic so it was Brie that got pinned. lolBellas

*Extreme Rules Match - Brock Lesnar vs John Cena*

BORK LASER SIGN :lol 

Gosh, they had the redemption story all tee'd up for them. Cena loses to the Rock, then loses to Rock, then feuds with Punk and chases the title for a bit, but can quite grasp it. Then wins the Rumble and take it from there. Losing to Lesnar would have been pretty important, not only for Cena, but also for Brock, with it being his first match in 8 years. 

Brock's strikes are so damn nasty, as evidenced by Cena being opened up almost right away. I love how Cena tries run in but Brock catches him every time with those strikes. The stoppage every time Cena starts bleeding hard slowed things a bit for me. I don't know if that's WWE actually being precautious, or making Brock seem that much more dangerous. Cena gets his little flurry, but Brock runs that shoulder right into him. :mark: Brock rubbing Cena's blood on his chest :mark: Brock licking his gloves with Cena's blood on them :mark: This is about the time that Cena started to put me on his side, when Brock locks in the Kimura, and Cena is screaming in what you would think was legit pain. Just watching Brock lean into those kicks to Cena's ribs are difficult to watch. Then you can feel the kicks themselves. Brock picking up Lil Naitch by the seat of his pants :lol Brock hits a pretty sick F-5 on Cena, but Cena's legs hit Robinson, knocking him out of the ring. A new ref comes down but only gets 2 and Brock kills him with a clothesline. 

Brock brings the base of the steps into the ring, and has a cool moment standing atop them, almost in a King of the Mountain moment. As Brock looks down at Cena, Cena gives him the You Can't See Me taunt, showing his defiance, and his will to continue fighting. Brock locks in the Kimura, and this is another one of the real sympathetic moments, where you can help but feel for Cena. Cena is able to lift Brock up and fight out. Cena is knocking out of the ring, and Brock hits a running knee to Cena, who is standing on the ring apron, sending both guys to the floor, where Brock lands terribly on his right knee. The doctors look to check on Brock, but he gets up on his own and STARTS CHEERING HIMSELF LIKE A BOSS. Brock is back in the ring, strutting around with that limp, still cheering himself and is looking to repeat the flying knee. Cena, however catches Brock with a nasty shot to the head with the chain, and is firmly in control, hoisting Lesnar up for a Attitude Adjustment on the steps, getting the victory. *******

The finish used to really bother me, but this during this, my third viewing of the match, I had so much sympathy for Cena, that I was pretty well on his side. Pretty incredible that the Chicago crowd that was booing him 30 minutes prior was well behind by the end. Show on the whole is pretty incredible, with Punk/Jericho being the only match that didn't feel as strong as it could have been. Still a solid match, but I the silly story got in the way. Bryan/Sheamus is my favorite pure wrestling match on the card, and Brock/Cena is a damn classic.​
If we're rating the triple main events:

Extreme Rules 2012

Bryan/Sheamus ****1/4
Punk/Jericho ***1/2
Brock/Cena *****

Summerslam 2013

Punk/Brock ****3/4
Christian/Del Rio ***3/4
Bryan/Cena ****1/2

Dat LESNAR. Dat BRYAN. Dat PUNK. Dat CENA.

Edit: Wow, that's a big ass wall of text.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I'm probably gonna have to say the SummerSlam 2013 triple main event is better for me personally because I was there live to witness all of that, but you can't go wrong with either one of those shows in all honesty.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Brock/Cena ****3/4 > Cena/Bryan- ****1/2
Punk/Jericho- ***3/4 < Brock/Punk ****1/2
Bryan/Sheamus- ****1/2 > Christian/ADR ***3/4

ER wins with the help of Cena and LEsnar . Pretty funny that at the both events Cena main-evented, and Punk was in the co-mainevent


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Honestly ppl underrate Cena as a FIP in that match with Lesnar, one of his better babyface performances just because of the immense beating he took,a fucking Chicago crowd actually got behind him in that match, I got behind him too and though I still think that Lesnar should have won Cena is really underrated in that match because of the finish,which I dont even fucking mind because the match is that damn good. 

Everyone watch ADR/Ziggler from SD, what a match :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just downloaded the Bruce Prichard shoot. 6 hours 18 minutes long :|. Looks like my night is sorted .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Haven't watched Smackdown in a month and the spoilers for this week don't give me any reason to change that.

Finally finished Taker/Austin from A Cold Day in Hell. Wow, this was soooooooooo boring until the last 5 or so minutes. Got good from the lowblow spot but before that, it was boring leg work that led to exactly nothing. And even the spot that gave the match life made no sense because since when are lowblows legal?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Honestly ppl underrate Cena as a FIP in that match with Lesnar, one of his better babyface performances just because of the immense beating he took,a fucking Chicago crowd actually got behind him in that match, I got behind him too and though I still think that Lesnar should have won Cena is really underrated in that match because of the finish,which I dont even fucking mind because the match is that damn good.
> 
> Everyone watch ADR/Ziggler from SD, what a match :mark:



Cena was a great baby face in that match, no doubt, but seeing the pure, distilled heel that Brock was in that match is what made people get behind Cena I think. Henry in 2011 is the only thing remotely close to the heel that Brock was in that match. What made it even better was the previous 4 years of PG era chickenshit heels. Other than Henry, no other heels in the PG era really frightened people. Orton came close to getting there in 2009, but he got his balls clipped at WM 25 by Hunter. You see all these young Cena fans in the front row at ER, and you just KNOW they have to be absolutely terrified of this animal who is just mauling their beloved hero in a way that has never been seen before or since.

HHH I'm with you, I think the Cena redemption story would have been so much better if Brock wins that match. That finish still bothers me, and it's why I can't give the match 5 stars. Everything should have been done exactly the same with Cena clocking Brock with the chain, but as soon as Cena goes to grab Brock for the AA, Brock locks in the Kimura and forces Cena to tap. That's the finish we should have gotten.

I watched the triple main event from eR just now on the network too . It's really cool how you can just turn it on and a random great PPV will be on. I'm a big fan of the Legends round table shows. Really cool to see all the guys sitting around a table smoking cigars and shooting the shit about random topics. It's hilarious how every show Flair is on, he just goes into full on Naitch mode and takes over the show and finds a way to bury Hall and Nash no matter what the topic is :lmao


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

He didn't even need to tap, but Brock could have knocked him to the point of unconscious, then hit the F-5 and won. Cena takes time off for a bit, returns to redeem himself. Not that difficult honestly. Also, Punk gets to really be in the main event, and not playing second fiddle to Cena/Lauriniatis FFS.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Yeah it's a shame. People say there is no point of the face of the company taking time off when he isn't injured but for the sake of selling the story and injury, he should have taken time off as it would have allowed Punk to main event some PPVs and save us from the boring Cena/Big Show feud that would take place later.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Don't remind me of that Big Show/Cena feud. One of the worst cage matches of all-time.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Just downloaded the Bruce Prichard shoot. 6 hours 18 minutes long :|. Looks like my night is sorted .


I like long shoots, but they're starting to get too long, or at least too many long ones are being put out.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> He didn't even need to tap, but Brock could have knocked him to the point of unconscious, then hit the F-5 and won. Cena takes time off for a bit, returns to redeem himself. Not that difficult honestly. Also, Punk gets to really be in the main event, and not playing second fiddle to Cena/Lauriniatis FFS.



See I was thinking Cena tapping to the Kimura would have served 2 purposes: 1.) would put Brock over as strongly as possible in his first match, while not really hurting Cena too much as Brock had about as much street cred as a dude can have going into that match. Tapping doesn't always hurt the baby face, if it's a submission that's "over" enough. Hell even Taker tapped to Angles ankle lock. And 2.) they could have sold the fact that Brock broke Cena's arm, giving them a reason to take him off TV until Summerslam.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching No Mercy 2003. I actually liked Matt Hardy's entrance. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

SummerSlam 2004

Dudleys vs Rey, London, Kidman:Fun match, ***

Hardy/Kane,I liked this feud ( because I liked all those involved) but meh *1/2

Cena/Booker,meh, *3/4

Edge vs Y2J vs Batista, I still don't get why Edge was booed in his hometown, comparing that to his Unforgiven 2006 reception is weird, anw, okay match tbh, **1/4-1/2 

Eddie/Angle : decent match, but nothing spectacular, ***, Hated how it ended.

HHH/Eugene : skipped

JBL vs Undertaker: decent match + aftermatch stuff, ***1/2

Orton vs Benoit,very good main event,saved the show,I still wonder if Orton would have won the belt if it wasn't for Lesnar leaving so they decided to have a new youngest world champion, but good stuff here, Orton and Benoit always had great chemistry,maybe I'll watch the rematch the next night to compare it to this one, ****1/4 ( If i'm gona give Orton/Bryan from december a **** I thought this was a bit better ^^)


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Skipping HHH/Eugene but giving Eddie/Angle ***? :bosh


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Eddie/Angle is pretty bad though. HHH/Eugene isn't great, but not skip worthy, tbhunter.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

About to watch Angle/Cena (No Mercy 2003). :lol at Angle's Cena impression in the build up.

Thuganomics. This Cena I actually liked.

Probably agree with Cal's rating, ***3/4. Excellent stuff here, real good match. May go to **** on another watch. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> About to watch Angle/Cena (No Mercy 2003). :lol at Angle's Cena impression in the build up.
> 
> Thuganomics. This Cena I actually liked.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


:mark: MOTN

I couldn't believe how great that match was, then they have that shit match at NWO 05 :|


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NM 03 was the only good match the two ever had together.

Well, only 1 03 PPV left that isn't a steaming pile of turd . Saving that for left... which leaves FOUR PPV's for me to struggle through in between. I think I'm gonna need more than just 3 Eddie/Tajiri Vs WGTT matches to get me through it :|.

Contemplating Bad Blood being the next Ramble...


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Just wait till you get to that Unforgiven 03 show 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Uhhh... you do know I already did that, right? It was the one before NM .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The poor soul already did Unforgiven 2003. Armageddon 2003 might be scarier. Half a year of Goldberg and HHH feuding with each other. No wonder Smackdown had better ratings than RAW :brock :heyman2 :cena :angle2 :taker


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Crazy to think that 2003 has had the GOAT PPV ever (WM 19) and the current WOAT PPV ever (Unforgiven... so far). What a crazy year. Plus NM 03 is #6 right now I think on my list.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Uhhh... you do know I already did that, right? It was the one before NM .


I was not aware, sorry I'm not stalking you :side: 

Well you got that Royal Rumble 04 gem coming up then :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Already done all the RR and WM shows .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

At least Armageddon has a somewhat decent triple threat rather than a horrid Goldberg/HHH snoozefest as main event. I don't know what Cal didn't like about Orton/HBK but surely he can't hate Orton/RVD? 

I also enjoyed the intergender match to an extent. Even Batista/HBK iirc. Not that bad after all.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Hitman said:


> About to watch Angle/Cena (No Mercy 2003). :lol at Angle's Cena impression in the build up.
> 
> Thuganomics. This Cena I actually liked.
> 
> ...


Angle was awesome during that build up. :lmao

Someone on another board asked about Steiner-HHH in 2003 and it made me go back and read reviews of their Rumble match, good lord. Brought back memories of how bad it was. I might watch it for the lulz one day if I'm super bored.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching Taker/Brock, I'd kinda like Taker to revert his attire back to his long trousers for WM30, like maybe in '04.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Always remember liking Orton/RVD so we'll see. Orton/HBK just wasn't good at all. Orton looked green as shit and HBK looked lost. They just had a mess of a match.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Already done all the RR and WM shows .


Well you are just going out of order then :lol

I'm on GAB 2005 at the moment, haven't seen this show in awhile.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I did RR and WM shows last year for projects on my blog where I posted a new review every day leading up to the events. Then one day I watched No Mercy 08 and just wrote a bunch of shit about it and posted it, people liked it so I did another, which happened to be from 2000. Then I decided to do the entire year, but I didn't bother going in order just to mix shit up . Got these 03 shows left:

No Way Out
Bad Blood
Vengeance
Survivor Series
Armageddon


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

GAB 2005 was a one man show from what I recall. Not even a one match show. Eddie Guerrero singlehandedly saved that show. I didn't even care for Rey in that match. All Eddie. Maybe Benoit/Jordan was good. But the main event :bosh


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I usually hate hearing ff spew his usual ignorance about 2005 but the GAB main event from that year is indefensible. :lol The whole Batista/JBL feud that year was shit and only half decent thing they produced was the NHB from SummerSlam.

But yeah, Benoit managed to do put out something passable with Jordan.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Always remember liking Orton/RVD so we'll see. Orton/HBK just wasn't good at all. Orton looked green as shit and HBK looked lost. They just had a mess of a match.


At least there's still hope.  If you have the time, also check out their rematch a few weeks later on Raw. I think that match might be even better.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> (is it weird that I don't like to refer to the time frames as these specific eras?)[/I]


I hate it mostly. Especially when an ''era'' is completely fabricated. There was no ''Ruthless Aggression Era''...it was never called that and is lame. Just like this time period has no ''era'' name. I don't like nor understand people's insistence to split these up into 'eras' with names attached to them. WHAT DO YOU CALL 2008, HUH!?



funnyfaces1 said:


> Cal/Cody/Cock/Yeah/anyone, what would you recommend from Bruiser Brody? I just read that touching piece by Zeb Colter about Brody's death, and now I wanna see his best work. Unfortunately, the last time I tried to binge on Brody, I honestly thought he was kinda bad. Hopefully with this new appreciation of brawlers, I'll enjoy him.


Nah you were right, he kinda stinks. Watch Dutch Mantel [Zeb] instead.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Any non-Lawler Dutch Mantel matches to look out for? Every time I look for good stuff from the 80s, I find these lists that are mainly the same Ric Flair matches everyone talks about. There's also tons of Dynamite Kid/Tiger Mask love even though their only good match was their first one. Very few gems from the territories on said lists as well (damn you Floyd's Cabana).

Speaking of which, there are actually quite a lot of big stars from the WWE that I really wanna check out their territory stuff from. Any place where I can be directed to would be perfect. Because :meltzer's ratings are not the way to go.



Spoiler: List



Roddy Piper
Randy Savage
Jim Duggan
Ted Dibiase
Butch Reed
Jerry Lawler
Rick Martel
Terry Taylor
Tommy Rich
Dick Murdoch
Ronnie Garvin
Curt Hennig
Adrian Adonis
Tito Santana
Greg Valentine


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I don't remember Smackdown being all that strong at all from 2004-2005. Lesnar's abruptly leaving put a hole on that show, imo. I could be wrong. I think the only true highlights were Guerrero and Benoit when he moved over. Then Smackdown started getting some more talent with Orton, Christian, etc. in 2005 and it slowly turned around. I could be mistaken and thinking of another time period though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

First time in years I have watched Taker/Brock (No Mercy 2003). Fully agree again with Cal's review. That Taker dive over the rope, Dragon Sleeper, Snake Eyes, awesome punch sequences. Some people crap on this match don't they? It's just one big battle, like their Unforgiven match, which I'm also a big fan of.

****

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah SD kinda died from 04-05 after killing it basically since 99. They got back on track for 06 though :mark:. 07 had some good but not as much as 06. 08 is a blur, 09 was great after the draft. 2010 had some good stuff but I don't remember much. Then it died again for a couple of years but it's been doing well recently.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I've heard great things of Smackdown 2009. I hope when I get the network they put those episodes up so I can watch them since I stopped watching the product in late 08 and came back during the Nexus angle. 

Wasn't '08 when the show was pretty much Edge vs. Undertaker until Edge took time off, and then Triple H got drafted with the WWE Championship to the show and Punk was there for a short while until he was drafted over to Raw with the World title or something like that? I think I remember '08 Smackdown being pretty good, but it's a blur for me as well for the most part.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

RatedR10 said:


> I don't remember Smackdown being all that strong at all from 2004-2005. Lesnar's abruptly leaving put a hole on that show, imo. I could be wrong. I think the only true highlights were Guerrero and Benoit when he moved over. Then Smackdown started getting some more talent with Orton, Christian, etc. in 2005 and it slowly turned around. I could be mistaken and thinking of another time period though.


Nah, you're right. The show kinda died when Benoit and later Brock were gone from it. It slowly got better in early 2005 and even more so once the draft happened and they gained Benoit, Orton plus others.

Then it got _really_ good in the first 4-5 months of 2006 but died again for the summer and got better once Benoit's sabbatical was over in October. 2007 was meh throughout and I can't really speak on the years following it until around 2011 where it was mediocre with just the occasional good stuff like much of Orton's work with Christian that year. 2012 was horrible (pretty much everything was) and it's been on and off since last year. Mentioned it earlier in the thread but I haven't watched any of the shows since last month other than Batista's heel turn and Ziggler squash.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I hate it mostly. Especially when an ''era'' is completely fabricated. There was no ''Ruthless Aggression Era''...it was never called that and is lame. Just like this time period has no ''era'' name. I don't like nor understand people's insistence to split these up into 'eras' with names attached to them. WHAT DO YOU CALL 2008, HUH!?
> 
> 
> 
> Nah you were right, he kinda stinks. Watch Dutch Mantel [Zeb] instead.



Meh, don't see why people get bothered by the use of "eras" to define time periods. Especially when there is noticeable differences in the style of work being done in the ring. For instance in the WWE, I think these are the current eras:

Golden Era (1983-1992) (Hogan, Savage, Warrior)
New Generation Era (1992-1997) (Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker)
Attitude Era (1998-2001) (Stone Cold, The Rock, Mick Foley, Triple H, The Undertaker)
Ruthless Aggression Era (2001-2007) (Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle, Triple H, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit)
PG Era (2008-present) (John Cena, Batista, Randy Orton, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Edge)


If you look back, the ring work and style of matches is markedly different for each era. Also, certain guys are just synonymous with the years in question. True Cena and Batista were on top before the PG era, but in general what I'm saying rings true. Why this seems to bother people I do not know. It's not like I'm "insisting" you refer to those years as a certain era. It's merely a label for a time in WWE's history that doesn't have any bearing on anything. It's not like I'm calling the 2008-2014 "the worthless peice of shit era" and insisting other people acknowledge it. They are just harmless names thrown out whenever a marked change in the standard of a "WWE style match" changed. An attitude era brawl would not fit in on an 80s Hogan card, and visa versa, a Hogan era main event would not cut it in 2003. Also, if you think about it, there was always something significant that occurred that changed the landscape of the WWE.

Golden Era into New Gen: Hogan leaving, Bret Hart being given a top spot and in general a movement to bring in more young, quality in ring performers with slightly less emphasis on body builder physiques.

New Gen into Attitude: Montreal Screw job, the rise of Stone Cold and DX, McMahon giving that speech about how the era of "a super hero telling you to say your prayers and eat your vitamins is certainly passé". 

Attitude into Ruthless Aggression: end of the Monday night wars, influx of WCW talent along with the rules being more strictly enforced and a renewed emphasis on slowing down in the ring and telling a story.

Ruthless Aggression into Pg: simple. wWE went to a PG rating from the standard TV14 of years passed. Edgy content and blood were gone, along with swearing. More emphasis on the "smiling good guy" baby face and the heels for the most part being chicken shits. Show entirely revolved around John Cena from 2008-2013.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

How does Undertaker vs Austin from Cold Day in Hell get noticed for it being boring and having pointless leg work when Undertaker vs Bret - x2 - is the same exact crap scenario later in the year?

It's all the same. It sucks.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> How does Undertaker vs Austin from Cold Day in Hell get noticed for it being boring and having pointless leg work when Undertaker vs Bret - x2 - is the same exact crap scenario later in the year?
> 
> It's all the same. It sucks.


:lmao

I admit I enjoyed the Bret/Taker matches but it's been a long time since I watched either of them, so we shall see if it'll hold up or be another "Cold Day in Hell". It probably didn't help that the Austin/Taker match had an extremely dead crowd. And at least in Bret's case, he wears down the leg for the Sharpshooter.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't mind limbwork that doesn't have any significance to the ending so long as the opposing wrestler sells accordingly. It's merely a strategy and can serve as nothing more than a strategy.

My only issue with "eras" besides pigeonholing some years where there is very little definition as to what they were (2001) is that "PG Era" sounds so dumb. On top of that, I truly believe that starting from the GOAT's pipebomb, the WWE changed enough to warrant itself to be a new "era" compared to 2008-mid 2011. Yeah, the big three are still at the top of the card, but so much about the company has changed. PG Era is a dumb name anyways.

I remember liking some stuff from 2008 on Smackdown. Jeff Hardy's rise to main eventer was so much fun. Undertaker had his best in-ring year and probably the best year ever for a big man. Like I said before, someone should really go through 2008 some day. I think Cody and her brother are doing it, but they never update us.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never get the excuse of putting a "dead crowd" as something to take away from quality work either.

Bret didn't even apply the Sharpshooter in the SummerSlam match. Thus making the point of working the leg worthless. That's a move that seems to target the back over the legs anyways. Plus, both matches ended in pinfall & DQ, respectively. Taker didn't come off as not selling once he made the short comebacks in the end, but rather it was time to take the match home b/c for the bulk they had no clue in what to do to extend it as long as they did. Which is something I'll never understand either. Both going nearly 30. Terrible decision.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Nah, you're right. The show kinda died when Benoit and later Brock were gone from it. It slowly got better in early 2005 and even more so once the draft happened and they gained Benoit, Orton plus others.
> 
> Then it got _really_ good in the first 4-5 months of 2006 but died again for the summer and got better once Benoit's sabbatical was over in October. 2007 was meh throughout and I can't really speak on the years following it until around 2011 where it was mediocre with just the occasional good stuff like much of Orton's work with Christian that year. 2012 was horrible (pretty much everything was) and it's been on and off since last year. Mentioned it earlier in the thread but I haven't watched any of the shows since last month other than Batista's heel turn and Ziggler squash.


I think Smackdown this year has been pretty good, match quality wise.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I don't mind limbwork that doesn't have any significance to the ending so long as the opposing wrestler sells accordingly. It's merely a strategy and can serve as nothing more than a strategy.
> 
> My only issue with "eras" besides pigeonholing some years where there is very little definition as to what they were (2001) is that "PG Era" sounds so dumb. On top of that, I truly believe that starting from the GOAT's pipebomb, the WWE changed enough to warrant itself to be a new "era" compared to 2008-mid 2011. Yeah, the big three are still at the top of the card, but so much about the company has changed. PG Era is a dumb name anyways.
> 
> I remember liking some stuff from 2008 on Smackdown. Jeff Hardy's rise to main eventer was so much fun. Undertaker had his best in-ring year and probably the best year ever for a big man. Like I said before, someone should really go through 2008 some day. I think Cody and her brother are doing it, but they never update us.



I agree the PG name is dumb, if you have a better name that catches on, I'm all ears. I truly thought Punks pipe bomb WOULD start a new era, the "Reality Era", since the WWE has broken the 4th wall more than ever since Punk shattered it that night. But honestly, there is no difference in the show from 2011 to now. Cena is still the guy, the matches are still worked in a similar fashion, though they are markedly BETTER since the arrival of Bryan, The Shield, Cesaro, etc. Whatever, it's not like I put a lot of thought or waste time worrying about such trivialities, it's just I don't understand why labeling certain years an "era" seems to bother some people. It doesn't change anything.

Agreed on everything you said about 2008. Takers best year IMO. Jeff Hardy's rise was awesome to see too. Did Taker and Jeff have a match that year? 

That's a good question you semi-posed FF. Best year ever for a big man. What are the candidates you think? Off the top of my head:

2008 Undertaker
2011 Henry
1993 Vader

Are the ones that come to mind for me. Then again, how do you define "big man"? I generally think anyone over 6'10 or above 350lbs is a "big man". Then there should be a special class for "super heavyweights". Guys like Vader, Bam Bam, One Man Gang, Henry, Big Show, etc who are legit over 4 bills.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Taker and Jeff had a No DQ match or something where Jeff WON. Think it was a UK taping.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I hate it mostly. Especially when an ''era'' is completely fabricated. There was no ''Ruthless Aggression Era''...it was never called that and is lame. Just like this time period has no ''era'' name. I don't like nor understand people's insistence to split these up into 'eras' with names attached to them. WHAT DO YOU CALL 2008, HUH!?


Don't ask that. Some justify 2008 at the start of the "PG Era". Ughhh.

As for the topic asked earlier: Smackdown in 2008 at the half way point is fun. Edge is crappy. Undertaker is more godly than usual. Undercard has been delivering when given the time. Matt Hardy & Finlay being around helps. HARDY & FINLAY. I love those cats. _(also Jeff Hardy when he comes around too, duh.)_ How did MVP retain his job for so long? Great Khali is better. Also, Chuck Palumbo ruled & cut the best* promo that nobody ever knew about. 

_*best = horrible as holy high heavens, but HILARIOUS_

I've skipped ahead to a few matches I remembered loving from the second half of the year - Festus vs Koslov & Undertaker vs Show in the Steel Cage. Both hold up. Fabulous matches. Oh yeah, that's another one. Koslov has been having a better year than MVP. Not like that's hard. Squashes > working like a shithead. I fear when Mr. Kennedy returns for a spell on this year. Thankfully he gets injured again in no time. :hb

Taker vs Jeff was in England & it was good. Per usual of both of them in 2008.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm big Cena fan but I fucking hated that Rapper gimmick, I know it was during at time when that stuff was "cool" but just no

I feel bad for Murderface alway being referred too as "Cody's brother", I fucking hate that w/ my own brother'


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Fine. I'll refer to him as Tyler from now on.

:lmao This guy that has done, for the most part, really good yearly reviews said that MVP was the third best worker of 2008: 

http://s15.zetaboards.com/BigEvil/topic/7036936/10/

For the longest time, I thought Yeah or Cal or even WOOLCOCK was this guy because of how similar their tastes were. Hardy/Taker was good. It was also notable for being one of the few times where another wrestler got a louder pop than Undertaker when facing him. Who else has gotten that reception? I know Austin and Rock did. Punk kinda did too, or at least it was very close. But at HIAC 09 and Mania, it sounded like the GOAT won that battle. I'm sure if Bryan faced Taker right now, the fans would cheer Bryan over him. Other than that, I can't think of anything else.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Never seen any matches in the Edge/Angle series, which match or matches were the best out of their PPV encounters?


Don't think I've seen them all, but hair vs. hair match at Judgment Day 2002 was fun as hell, including the aftermath.

I had a smile on my face much of the time. You definitely should check it out.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

When I was doing 2002 reviews I gave the BL match ***3/4 and the JD one ****, and I remember them being good so I would check at least those two ppv matches out


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Not watching wrestling anymore, solely Total Divas from now on brothers, it was real


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

No Renee=NO BUYS

Also,the addition of Summer Rae and the loss of Jojo suck


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Meh, don't see why people get bothered by the use of "eras" to define time periods. Especially when there is noticeable differences in the style of work being done in the ring. For instance in the WWE, I think these are the current eras:
> 
> Golden Era (1983-1992) (Hogan, Savage, Warrior)
> New Generation Era (1992-1997) (Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker)
> ...


one of the things I hate abut it is how it seems to be split up into perfectly straight years. It's pretty damn clear early 2001 is still ''Attitude Era'' (which tbf is actually labelled as that by WWE), and honestly that era started before 1998 when the ring product was different from what it was in 1998 and 1999. 2007's is also different from 2001, which is different from 2003. Not like that's a great judge, I mean the wrestling on Raw in 2003 was different from the wrestling on SmackDown in 2003 (and in style, not just quality). I said 2003 had different wrestling than 2007, but it's not like 1986/1998 different and it's not any different from 2008 just because of no blood.

The naming is often terrible to me, too. ''*PG* Era''? OK, it went PG in late 2008, but through 2009 was WWE really THAT much different than 2007? How are they different ''eras''? The TV rating sure as hell shouldn't judge it or name it. You told funnyfaces if he had a better name than PG Era that you'd be all ears, but that's my point - why label it AT ALL?



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Also, certain guys are just synonymous with the years in question. True Cena and Batista were on top before the PG era, but in general what I'm saying rings true.


not really sure what this has to do with labeling ''eras''. The Undertaker has been a major player since the early 90s, but how often has he actually been the ''era changer''? That kind of thing should really reserved for Hogan and/or Austin. Like, Cena's massive and everyone knows him, but how has he ''changed the game'' from 2004? If he was the biggest star in 2004 would the product be different than it was? Doubt it. Obviously there'd be different feuds, different places for different people, etc, but how different would the overall.....thing......be? It's hard to put in words what I have in mind, but WWF 1989 and WWF 1999 are very clearly different in every way and not just exclusive to the wrestlers or the TV rating. WWE in 2004 and WWE in 2008....are they really different enough to be separated in ''eras''? And if they are, would that mean 2008 and 2014 are different enough to be separated into different eras as well?



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Why this seems to bother people I do not know. It's not like I'm "insisting" you refer to those years as a certain era. It's merely a label for a time in WWE's history that doesn't have any bearing on anything. It's not like I'm calling the 2008-2014 "the worthless peice of shit era" and insisting other people acknowledge it. They are just harmless names thrown out whenever a marked change in the standard of a "WWE style match" changed. An attitude era brawl would not fit in on an 80s Hogan card, and visa versa, a Hogan era main event would not cut it in 2003. Also, if you think about it, there was always something significant that occurred that changed the landscape of the WWE.


The label part is actually what bothers me. Maybe not TRULY bothers, but, it's a pet peeve. I guess I'm, more than anything, confused why these eras are split up into these eras the way they are. I/we split up years because they're years, I/we split up decades because they're decades, I/we split up payperviews (aka MOTN) because they're payperviews. I just don't really see a reason to split to shove a word on a span of five years for almost no reason. I'm obviously not trying to stop anyone from doing it, but when I see ''what are top ten ruthless aggression era matches'', I sit here thinking ''what does that even mean?'' I get WWE were doing the ruthless aggression slogan in 2002/3 or whatever (which I honestly think is one of the lamest slogans I've ever heard), but they'd clearly ditched that in 2006 and yet it's lumped together. Where EXACTLY was the change? I'm not going to lie and say the Attitude Era was an overnight thing and that there was some gradual change**, but WWE saying ''we are now PG'' and refusing blood doesn't see like an era-changer to me. Realistically it did nothing.

** this is part of the problem. there was obviously a period in 96/97 (see? I don't even know the year) where it didn't seem like WWF was either pre-Attitude or total Attitude. What do you call the period between the first Austin 3:16 promo and to the Montreal Screwjob or that Vince promo in December of 97? You listed a few things below but no one ever seems to be certain. ''Best _____ of the Attitude Era'' always winds up ''well if this counts...'' ''does this count?'' etc etc. So if that era - which is ACTUALLY named an era by EVERYBODY - can't have a pinpoint start/end date, then why bother with 2003-2014? Why split them up?



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> But honestly, there is no difference in the show from 2011 to now.
> 
> Cena is still the guy, the matches are still worked in a similar fashion,


Cena was the guy in 2007, how different are the matches from then, really? Like, I'd actually like to hear how the matches in 2013 differ from 2007 as a whole product. How was 2011 all that different from 2010?



funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao This guy that has done, for the most part, really good yearly reviews said that MVP was the third best worker of 2008:
> 
> http://s15.zetaboards.com/BigEvil/topic/7036936/10/
> 
> For the longest time, I thought Yeah or Cal or even WOOLCOCK was this guy because of how similar their tastes were. Hardy/Taker was good. It was also notable for being one of the few times where another wrestler got a louder pop than Undertaker when facing him. Who else has gotten that reception? I know Austin and Rock did. Punk kinda did too, or at least it was very close. But at HIAC 09 and Mania, it sounded like the GOAT won that battle. I'm sure if Bryan faced Taker right now, the fans would cheer Bryan over him. Other than that, I can't think of anything else.


I want to do a 2008 list one day. Mine won't look anything like that, though, I'll have at least five Henry matches in the top ten.  I don't get the MVP hate, though. I'm guessing I'll like him a lot that year again.
---------------------------


I'm not re-reading my post again so any faults or contradictions are almost expected.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wished I had an ECW 2008 pack for all the goodness following the draft. Henry, Hardy, Finlay, Morrison, Bourne days. First four have already given me goodies on Smackdown as it is, so that's cool.

Dunno how you'll like MVP tbf. This isn't an underrated cat like Orlando Jordan. But, per usual, whatever & stuff.

:lmao @ that link posted putting MVP vs Matt Hardy @ #1 on the list. No words.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That whole class of up and comers after the OVW class of Cena, Orton, Lesnar, Benjamin, and Batista was horrible outside of Punk and Morrison. Masters later on went from shit to awesome and Ziggler gradually became good as well. However, guys like Miz, Carlito, Kennedy, Lashley, MVP, Kenny Dykstra lol), and Snitsky. How bad could it get? I even liked MVP's gimmick, but I knew I wasn't crazy when I thought he was boring in the ring. Did he and Matt have any standout matches together? I thought their feud was cool from the few videos I saw of it.

That same guy had Cena/Orton at Summerslam 2007 as the second best match of that year. His 2010 top 10 though looks exactly like what yours would be.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> No Renee=NO BUYS
> 
> Also,the addition of Summer Rae and the loss of Jojo suck


fpalm my avatar disagrees.

That MVP/Hardy match from Backlash 2008 :lmao that match is just god awful.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Matt vs MVP from ECW in late 2008 MIGHT be worth seeing. If they changed it up. b/c all their other matches were crap. Perhaps the first from Smackdown in 2007 - which led to the bad GAB '07 match - has hope too. But Matt couldn't even get anything out of him.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> His 2010 top 10 though looks exactly like what yours would be.


If you're talking to me then naaaaah. To be fair I haven't seen the SummerSlam tag yet, but he has a few matches that are way, way higher than I'll wind up having them. Hell Cena/Batista from WM is his #9 and I didn't give it an ''ADDING''. He's only got one Rey match in the top ten, too. I do like how his highest Edge singles match was at #102. This, though...........



> 113. Christian vs. Drew McIntyre, Smackdown (July 16th)
> 112. Chris Jericho [c] vs. Edge, WrestleMania 26 (March 28th)


The former is my #4 right now and the latter is truly, honestly, sincerely one of my least favourite matches of all time. THOUGHTSONBOTH;



> Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
> All right, no more fucking around with stuff I don’t know is good or not (for the one match). Did Matt Striker have to commentate this? Ugh. So this is less control-based and more back-and-forth than their other 2010 matches, and as a result is probably my least favourite of 2010 their series (the longer matches, anyway), but fuck that ‘it sounds like I’m talking it down’ noise, because this is so goddamn great. I said it was back-and-forth and that’s true, but it’s the kind of back-and-forth where they hit small moves and reversals to big ones so lack of selling isn’t an issue. AND, because of these small moves being so frequent, some of them feel massive. The opening parts have Christian escaping a Drew onslaught by going to the outside, and when they hit the apron area there are leg-catches and elbow throws that don’t even connect, but feel big and important, as if noting that if one of these motherfuckers hits something, shit will go down. There are a couple of times where both guys just want space, and there’s this super awesome spot where Christian needs room to hit a tornado DDT while perched on the turnbuckle, so he just knees McIntyre directly in the mouth. Drew’s sell of said tornado DDT is also fucking great; he has this long lanky body so when he does his delayed flip on it, the whole thing just winds up looking incredible. Speaking of Christian being perched on the turnbuckle, how fucking nasty is that spill when McIntyre pushes him? Holy crap in Hell Christian just takes some of the more disgusting looking dumps whenever someone does that to him. Stuff like that of course results in Christian making attempts to work upward, and even these little bits in this back-and-forth match made me excited to go back to their other matches. These two are some kind of bump freaks and are perfectly fit for each other. Million stars. ADDED
> 
> Chris Jericho v. Edge
> Yay! It’s two wrestlers wrestling back and forth in a match that you could go to any random indy show and see! This is awful. I originally had zero hope for this being any good, but I saw that they actually had something to work with in the video package – spear v. Achilles tendon. Edge had hit the spear multiple times on Jericho, and he said ‘one more time and you won’t be champion any more’. OK, good. Jericho knew of Edge’s injury and said he would exploit it. OK, good. Only almost none of that happened. I was completely expecting back and forth sub-indy bullshit from these two, especially in 2010, but for fuck’s sake, if you have this little story to work with how about you capitalize on it? They start boringly chain wrestling which isn’t horrible but I don’t need it. At the very least though I can understand having a match be kind of back and forthy when it starts. Then Jericho gets on top and my God what a bore. I still didn’t think it was awful at that point, but, dude, Jericho, you said you were going to attack Edge’s injury…you have the match. How about you start NOW? Oh no, we can’t have that – we need reversals and more back and forth. Of course you do. It’s not even the kind of back and forth I can tolerate. I remember writing about the CM Punk/Matt Hardy match for the 2008 KOTR months back, and I said reversals didn’t bother me if no offensive move was hit. You’re not ignoring any move that’s already happened – you’re smartly preventing it from happening. No, here they hit the moves and lifelessly throw some bland ‘I’m tired but still hitting shit’ motions back, with seemingly no thought behind them. And it’s not as if any of it looked good on execution either. Jericho did at least have a badass reversal of the spear into the walls, which Edge reversed into a pin of some kind. Then Edge gets up immediately following that (no selling the Walls), and eats an elbow about as convincingly as a toddler playing Power Rangers. Edge’s best spot in the match was stopping Jericho’s spear by booting him directly in the face. Then, naturally, ruining it by getting ready for his own spear by embarrassingly clawing his hands out and making those ridiculous faces. I really hate watching Edge. I just fucking hate it. I did appreciate that they worked the spear into this – in a way that Jericho had to avoid it, but it was too separated by random piles of nothing. Some BS goes on outside and then the ref gets knocked over about as convincingly as Edge playing wrestling. Jericho, after an eternity of bad THIS STUFF, finally attacks the Achilles which forces Edge to fight back for two seconds on one leg. See? Isn’t this what the match should have been!? I don’t see why nobody thought ‘we should have a match where Edge has his injury worked on and gets hopeful shots in, including spears’. That would have worked, I’d think!? Maybe not, because Edge does a Cactus Clothesline, lands on the ankle, and doesn’t even acknowledge it. Oh what a great worker that man was. Fuck Edge. Jericho hits like his 7th codebreaker to finally put my misery to an end. I cannot stress how much I didn’t like this. Just crappy wrestling. Keep this dire, dreary, lifeless scat away from me. NOT ADDING.


I didn't watch or post these together so its kind of cool/coincidental that you get an opinion on good back and forth/bad and forth like that. Also what I didn't mention in the Edge/Jericho write-up was that Matt Striker called Jericho an evil genius mastermind or something when attacking the ankle. After several minutes of not attacking the ankle when he could have. I've watched half of the PPVs that year and that is my least favourite of anything. I'd rather watch all of the divas matches and Hart/Vince again. Not kidding.

one more note on that guy's thing...he made a list of the best wrestlers, tag teams, etc for the year:


> 19.	Edge
> 20.	Goldust


Yeah..that's...not me. 

----------------

Watching some of Fatal 4Way tonight. BET ON IT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I hope you watch Miz vs Truth.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of Taker in '08. How was Taker/Show from No Mercy? I love the Cyber Sunday match.

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----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Amazing. Think Cyber Sunday, but in a sprint variety.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Excellent. I'll dig out my dvd. 

I need to check out Taker/Show from No Way Out '03 too.

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----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> I hope you watch Miz vs Truth.


Goddamnit. It must have gone forty bloody minutes.

I don't ''NO'' things, btw. If I'mma watch a PPV, I'mma watch the whole thing. Begrudgingly. But I watch the whole thing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It feels that way.

Good man. We need less corner cutters like Cal.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

hhahahaha yeah stoopid cal

Look at me, I am cal; rey vs chavo? NO, -1 ON CAL SCALE. I have to watch austin/undertaker from Backlash instead which is a 46 on the cal scale









I shouldn't have watched Miz/Truth.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll cut corners any time I want dammit. My life already sucks enough without having to endure a Miz match or some bullshit!

Downloading SD 2008 pack atm . To go along with my ECW 08 pack and the 3 months I downloaded of Raw 08 aka Punk stuff .

EDIT: At least I'm not Aussie 8*D.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:hayden3

Backlash '02 zinger. Tremendous.

Jheri was Miz's rap where he forgot the words worse for you than the actual match? I shouldn't be asking. It'll probably be mentioned in the write-up.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> EDIT: At least I'm not Aussie 8*D.


HEY, THAT IS NOT MY FAULT. I DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE BORN HERE.



HayleySabin said:


> Jheri was Miz's rap where he forgot the words worse for you than the actual match? I shouldn't be asking. It'll probably be mentioned in the write-up.


I haven't finished writing about it, but I honestly blanked on the rap. Jesus that was fucking awful. I have no idea how WWE saw what the Miz did on this show and gave the go ahead for him to win MITB. Looking back it's kind of hilarious how much they used him. He got a Mania main event, ffs.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You may hate me for thinking it, but he had a few - emphasis noted.. - occasions where I thought he was good for his United States Championship role. Still remember being blown away when he won MITB. Then again, should I be? I walked into it thinking Evan Bourne was going to win after the way it seemed the company was going to steamroll him into being a player at that time.

Stupid WWE letting my imagination get all out of whack.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Miz got a push. Won the title. Main evented WM. Against Cena. AND WON.

If that isn't proof that Vince McMahon is legitimately retarded I don't know what is.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a trend that's continued for every WM main event since 27, tbhayley.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> one of the things I hate abut it is how it seems to be split up into perfectly straight years. It's pretty damn clear early 2001 is still ''Attitude Era'' (which tbf is actually labelled as that by WWE), and honestly that era started before 1998 when the ring product was different from what it was in 1998 and 1999. 2007's is also different from 2001, which is different from 2003. Not like that's a great judge, I mean the wrestling on Raw in 2003 was different from the wrestling on SmackDown in 2003 (and in style, not just quality). I said 2003 had different wrestling than 2007, but it's not like 1986/1998 different and it's not any different from 2008 just because of no blood.
> The naming is often terrible to me, too. ''*PG* Era''? OK, it went PG in late 2008, but through 2009 was WWE really THAT much different than 2007? How are they different ''eras''? The TV rating sure as hell shouldn't judge it or name it. You told funnyfaces if he had a better name than PG Era that you'd be all ears, but that's my point - why label it AT ALL?
> not really sure what this has to do with labeling ''eras''. The Undertaker has been a major player since the early 90s, but how often has he actually been the ''era changer''? That kind of thing should really reserved for Hogan and/or Austin. Like, Cena's massive and everyone knows him, but how has he ''changed the game'' from 2004? If he was the biggest star in 2004 would the product be different than it was? Doubt it. Obviously there'd be different feuds, different places for different people, etc, but how different would the overall.....thing......be? It's hard to put in words what I have in mind, but WWF 1989 and WWF 1999 are very clearly different in every way and not just exclusive to the wrestlers or the TV rating. WWE in 2004 and WWE in 2008....are they really different enough to be separated in ''eras''? And if they are, would that mean 2008 and 2014 are different enough to be separated into different eras as well?
> The label part is actually what bothers me. Maybe not TRULY bothers, but, it's a pet peeve. I guess I'm, more than anything, confused why these eras are split up into these eras the way they are. I/we split up years because they're years, I/we split up decades because they're decades, I/we split up payperviews (aka MOTN) because they're payperviews. I just don't really see a reason to split to shove a word on a span of five years for almost no reason. I'm obviously not trying to stop anyone from doing it, but when I see ''what are top ten ruthless aggression era matches'', I sit here thinking ''what does that even mean?'' I get WWE were doing the ruthless aggression slogan in 2002/3 or whatever (which I honestly think is one of the lamest slogans I've ever heard), but they'd clearly ditched that in 2006 and yet it's lumped together. Where EXACTLY was the change? I'm not going to lie and say the Attitude Era was an overnight thing and that there was some gradual change**, but WWE saying ''we are now PG'' and refusing blood doesn't see like an era-changer to me. Realistically it did nothing.
> ...



This is actually a great post and I happen to agree with the majority of it. Let me see if I can break this down.



> Cena was the guy in 2007, how different are the matches from then, really? Like, I'd actually like to hear how the matches in 2013 differ from 2007 as a whole product. How was 2011 all that different from 2010?


I would say the biggest difference from a match that took place in the "Ruthless Aggression Era" and now is the violence. You threw out Cena as an example, how does a Cena match in 2007 differ than one today. Well lets take Cena's best match from 2007 and his best from 2013 and compare. 2007 his best match was the Last Man Standing Match with Umaga at the Royal Rumble. That match had Cena bleeding all over the place, numerous shots to the head with steel steps, and a finish that had Cena strangling Umaga with a ring rope. All of that stuff is outlawed today. His best match in 2013 was either vs Punk on Raw or vs Bryan at Summerslam, but since neither of those were gimmick matches, lets use his 3 stages of Hell match with Ryback. Just watch those matches back to back and tell me there isn't a difference in the level of violence allowed. Obviously it's not really fair to just arbitrarily select two matches, but I think if you went back through ALL of 2007 as a whole and compared it with say, 2010, the level of violence and the explicit content on would go down drastically. Is it enough to differentiate them as different "eras"? I really couldn't tell you, it's all subjective.



> one of the things I hate abut it is how it seems to be split up into perfectly straight years. It's pretty damn clear early 2001 is still ''Attitude Era'' (which tbf is actually labelled as that by WWE), and honestly that era started before 1998 when the ring product was different from what it was in 1998 and 1999.
> 
> Where EXACTLY was the change? I'm not going to lie and say the Attitude Era was an overnight thing and that there was some gradual change**, but WWE saying ''we are now PG'' and refusing blood doesn't see like an era-changer to me. Realistically it did nothing.


You are 100% correct here and I agree wholeheartedly. There is no exact cut off date, the changes were gradual and there is no definitive "moment" where the AE started or where the RA era ended. Thats why it is completely retarded for someone to say "List the 10 Greatest Matches of the Attitude Era". Does HBK/Taker HIAC count? What about Angle/Austin SS 2001? There is no definitive cut off date or start date and you could argue until you are blue in the face about why you think such and such is when it started but that doesn't make you right.

I do happen to think the move to a PG rating did alter to the product enough that there is a noticeable difference. Watching either Raw or Smackdown in say 2004 compared to 2009, you will see less "edgy" content, less violence, and a more "Kid friendly" atmosphere. Is it enough to cause a change in "era"? I really don't even know what that means, tbh. The only reason there even are "eras" is because WWE says so. Triple H even called the current period "The PG era" in an interview before Summerslam. It's not like I came up with this whole concept, it's been fed to us fans by the WWE, and since I the viewer can see differences in the periods they are calling "eras", I don't mind playing along. Again, no definite cut off/start dates for any of these periods in my mind, it was always a gradual phase in/phase out type deal.



> ** this is part of the problem. there was obviously a period in 96/97 (see? I don't even know the year) where it didn't seem like WWF was either pre-Attitude or total Attitude. What do you call the period between the first Austin 3:16 promo and to the Montreal Screwjob or that Vince promo in December of 97? You listed a few things below but no one ever seems to be certain. ''Best _____ of the Attitude Era'' always winds up ''well if this counts...'' ''does this count?'' etc etc. *So if that era - which is ACTUALLY named an era by EVERYBODY - can't have a pinpoint start/end date, then why bother with 2003-2014? Why split them up?*


I really don't have an answer for this, labeling time periods "eras" serves no purpose other than to loosely categorize certain years where the show had some kind of alteration to it to make it subtly different than other years. If I was the Czar of the wrestling world, would I choose to label years "eras"? No, no I wouldn't, but since I'm not the Czar and since there seems to be no reason to really fight it, I play along.


There, you made me put 20x more thought into this than I ever would have if you hadn't brought it up. Hope your happy


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Still watching the Bruce Prichard shoot . An hour and a half left . Been really good, not many guys I could watch over 6 hours of. My only complaint is he did it with RF. Fuck me, they are TERRIBLE interviewers. "So uhhh I guess you worked for WWE". THAT'S A QUESTION TO THEM. They constantly get facts wrong, simple shit that you could look up on Wikifuckingpedia for fucks sake. Oh and it's even more hilariously fucking shit when they get a fact RIGHT and the person being interviewed thinks it's wrong and they just let him continue being wrong. And then we have them attempting to actually ask questions, and they are mostly unable to do it. They seem to start asking a question, then just get confused in the middle. "You worked for Bill Watts, what was, you know uhhh you worked for him and that happened" cracks me up and pisses me off at the same time :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, I havn't watched many KC or RF interviews, but I always much prefer Sean Oliver.

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----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Yeah, I havn't watched many KC or RF interviews, but I always much prefer Sean Oliver.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Who was the guy who did the Vader timeline? He wasn't bad at all tbf.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Who was the guy who did the Vader timeline? He wasn't bad at all tbf.


Yeah that's Oliver.

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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kayfabe Commentaries are the kings of shoot interview right now. YouShoots, Timelines, Breaking Kayfabe and Guest Booker are all awesome. Not fond of their "list" shows like Worst gimmicks etc but everything else they do is awesome. Sean Oliver is a major part of it too as he is actually GOOD at interviewing people and expanding his own questions based on answers. RF just fumble over themselves and can barely get out their own questions.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal you put up w/too many pointless shoot interviews.

And now I'm a bit peeved b/c I can' find that long Finlay vs Scott Putski match from Nitro in December of 1998. I want to see it so I can finally have the question of "Did Finlay get something good out of Scott Putski but not Bret Hart?" answered. It didn't originally start as a slight to Bret. Only turned out that way after Bret was poor in the Finlay match, unfortunately & it's fresh. Yeah.

Might as well watch Finlay boss it up vs Norman Smiley again. Then I'll probably have to watch Smiley school Chavo Jr. b/c the match _(Souled Out '99)_ OWNS. Follows Benoit vs Enos too. Joy to the WCW undercard.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did you ever find a person that uploaded episodes of Thunder?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nope. Only select episodes here and there. Found two from 2001 post-Sin. Got me excited to relive those as I'm wanting to do 2001 over again right now. It's enough to do actually in a day if I was down.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching Bad Blood 2003. It's at MINUS FOUR so far :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

Review is gonna be worth the read.

I liked STEINER vs Test & the three main events. How is this possible? I dunno. Goldberg owns.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The review is gonna suck since I've skipped 4 matches so far :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

CUTTIN' CORNERS


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

CAL CUTTIN' CORNERS. CATCHY.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CCC > HHH, tbhayley.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TRIPLE C.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank goodness Jericho carried Goldberg to something good that night.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK please tell me you watched Zayn/Cesaro.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He legit confirmed to me about ten minutes ago he hasn't.

Failure.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)




----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Just watched Punk/Cena/Del Rio from HIAC from 2011. Pretty good match, although I'm pretty sure it still would've worked as a normal triple threat.

Also, :lmao at the clusterfuck after the match. What retard would LOWER THE CELL BACK DOWN? :lol :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Bad Blood 2003*

Oh sweet jebus what am I doing?


*The Dudley Boys Vs Rodney Mack & Christopher Nowinski*

:lmao oh man how awful does this look on paper? So awful I'm not even attempting to watch it.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


A burping contest takes place. Why oh why?


*Scott Steiner Vs Test - Winner gets Stacy as a manager*

:lmao NO! No! No!

STACY IS FUCKING FAP FAP FAP THOUGH!

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Christian Vs Booker T - Intercontinental Championship Match*

I can't do it. Not after their Insurrextion match.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


A pie eating contest next. Fuck me this is awful.


*La Resistance Vs RVD & Kane - World Tag Team Championship Match*

Sorry, I can't sit through a match with 3 people who absolutely suck. Kane ain't enough to make me watch it.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Chris Jericho Vs Goldberg*

Honestly don't wanna watch this either, but it's a big match and I AM kinda curious to see how it turned out. Can't be worse than Rock/Goldberg, right?

Jericho tries to play mind games with Big Bill, running away and escaping to the outside, but Goldberg just fucking charges at him and starts to beat the shit out of him and well, given their history it looks like Goldberg is legitimately trying to hurt Chris .

"Goldberg please go away" sign in the front row :lmao.

SPEAR! SPEAR! SPEAR! GOLDBERG SPEARED THE SECURITY WALL :lmao.

Lawler in the most sarcastic tone of voice ever: "Oh the mighty Goldberg is injured!" :lmao.

Goldberg is bleeding too :lmao.

Fuck me, how is Goldberg still throwing kicks? He already killed Bret Hart's career, and jebus he gets a couple of shots in on Jericho that looks brutal as fuck and not in the fun Tajiri way.

Jericho works the arm, because that's the only match you can do with Goldberg apparently.

GOLDBERG SUCKS chants :lmao.

At least Goldberg is selling the arm in this match when he SHOULD be selling it. Not that the HHH match where he gets confused :lmao.

Big Y2J chants now.

2 SPEARS on Jericho. First one hurt him just as much, the second uhhh... apparently wasn't as bad since he got right up and hit the Jackhammer :lmao.

This was... watchable. I basically enjoyed the 3 Spears .

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Ric Flair Vs Shawn Michaels*

Well this has... potential for sure, though I don't remember it being that good, so we'll see how it holds up .

Build up package was pretty sweet, one of the things WWE is usually always great at. Make me excited to see the match.

:lmao at HBK taking Flair down to the mat then WALKING ON HIM and doing a strut, followed up with a SLAP TO THE FACE. Awesome.

Shawn is all about trying to show up Flair early on, proving that he's better than his idol. Then Flair sees once chance to go for the legs and BAM, HBK is down.

FIGURE FOUR~!

Shawn escapes, then Flair starts fucking STOMPING on the knee of HBK. Looks awesomely brutal lol.

HBK USING THE FIGURE FOUR~! I don't think Flair is enjoying it...










:lmao

EYE POKE~!

:lmao at that "superplex". They'd have gotten more height doing it in the ring like normal :lmao.

RANDOM TABLE~! Because this match needed a table spot apparently.

:lmao Orton shows up out of nowhere and gets... knocked out instantly :lmao.

CROSS BODY TO FLAIR THROUGH THE TABLE~!

:lmao I just noticed a guy in the front row dressed up like Tigger :lmao. WHO DOES THAT?

:lmao DOUBLE LOW BLOW TO HBK AND THE REF :lmao.

SWEET CHIN MUSIC~!

ORTON WITH A CHAIR TO HBK'S SKULL~!

FLAIR WINS~!

I liked most of this. Wasn't great but certainly good.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


Signing contest now. Kill me.


*Triple H Vs Kevin Nash - World Heavyweight Championship Hell in a Cell Match - Mick Foley Special Guest Referee*

:lmao the build up for this match was based more around FOLEY being the special referee. And then Foley comes out LAST rather than like, the WHC :lmao. FOLEY IS BIGGER THAN THIS MATCH.

:lmao the match even starts with HHH getting in FOLEY'S face with Nash standing in the background. 

:lmao at HHH fumbling over the ropes to the outside. Guy can't even be thrown to the floor properly in 2003 :lmao.

NASH SHOVES HHH INTO FOLEY~! Foley... doesn't care .

HHH gets thrown into the side of the cell a number of times, but it's a back body drop on the floor that gets any kind of reaction from the fans .

:lmao at Nash choosing the one corner with a camera man stood in to push HHH into :lmao.

For all the :lmao I'm doing, don't confuse that with me hating this match so far btw. It's actually been a pretty good brawl so far. Nash is just fucking MAULING HHH and that's fun to watch .

TOOL BOX~! 

HAMMER TO THE KNEE~!

HAMMER TO THE HEAD~!

WHY DID HHH GO FOR THE TOOL BOX RATHER THAN HIS SLEDGEHAMMER?

HHH and Foley have another confrontation in the ring, while Nash is dead from being hit in the head with a hammer . Nash might as well go home .

SCREWDRIVER~!

KEVIN NASH IS SCREWED~!

2X4 WRAPPED IN BARBED WIRE~! They are bringing out all the toys for this, aren't they lol? Makes sense, no way can they have a match as long as this one is and rely only on their wrestling ability .

Fuck me HHH is POURING with blood.

SNAKE EYES RIGHT ONTO THE BARBED WIRE~! Awesome.

Some matches throw in a ton of weapons and it takes away from the match (see HHH/Jericho HIAC), but here, both guys mauling each other with weapons actually makes for a GOOD match.

WOODEN CRATE TO THE HEAD~! Where the fuck did that even come from? It was already just THERE on the floor. Must have missed when they brought it out .

SLEDGEHAMMER~! So it IS there... he just decided on using a small normal hammer earlier because...

SLEDGEHAMMER~!

Why is Foley taking it away from him? Seriously? HELL IN A CELL NO FUCKING RULES DAMMIT.

HHH cracks Nash in the head with a chair and then... decks Foley with it too! Why? I dunno. Surely taking out the referee is a dumb move? 

MADIBLE CLAW~!

FOLEY IS BLEEDING~!

LOW BLOW~!

Steel steps to Foley's face by Nash :lmao. Seriously, Nash doesn't even need to be here :lmao.

:mark: my favourite part of the match now. HHH shoves Nash into Foley, who flies off the apron into the cell. Nash lands a JACKKNIFE and covers... and Foley jumps right up and makes a count so HHH can kick out at 2 with absolutely no time to recover, making Nash's finisher look like shit :lmao.

Take a shot every time someone says BASTARD during this match. You'll be fucking HAMMERED :lmao.

SLEDGEHAMMER TO THE HEAD~! PEDIGREE~! NASH IS FINISHED~!

Match holds up for sure. Really good, despite who is in it. A bloody, brutal HIAC match. Me likey.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 1*​


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Holy shit @ how bad that opener looks

I might watch it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cal deserves a medal for surviving that disaster. Goldberg/Jericho was not that bad though. But man, I can't wait to see him shit on Armageddon.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

From the sounds of it, they should have just done Foley/Hunter HiaC again hahaha. Seriously though, I'm surprised you think that highly of it. The only 2 "real" HiaC matches (ie ones done before the HiaC PPV was created) I HAVENT seen are that Nash/HHH one and Jericho/Trips. I might have to knock both of those out this evening.

By the way, wanna know why that table spot was so random in the HBK/Flair match? Because Nature Boy insisted right before he and Shawn went out that he wanted to be put through a table, as he'd never done it before. Shawn even said "Ric that doesn't make any sense for this match" and Flair just said "I don't care I wanna go through a table" :lmao. Strange, because Funk definitely pile drove Flair on top a table in 1989 but since it didn't break I guess Flair didn't count it


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

No way Jericho / Goldberg can be that bad





DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> :mark: my favourite part of the match now. HHH shoves Nash into Foley, who flies off the apron into the cell. Nash lands a JACKKNIFE and covers... and Foley jumps right up and makes a count so HHH can kick out at 2 with absolutely no time to recover, making Nash's finisher look like shit :lmao.






 @2:55 :lmao :lmao


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Just finished Rumble 08, was enjoyable. On to NWO 08, great EC matches right?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

NWO 2008 is a great show, dont skip Cena/Orton, its good


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of NWO, watching 03 now. There was talk the other day of best triple main events on a show... well this might be the worst :lmao. Rock/Hogan is an abomination (and I expect it to hold up as such), the handicap match SD main event is terrible, and HHH/Steiner is HHH/Steiner :lmao.

Only at the opener but I don't see this show being good overall .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Will never get the love of Orton/Cena nwo 2008 so bland and meh to me. Their best encounter was the I Quit BY FAR


Edit: Yea Shawn/Naitch I is pretty swell, although Shawn not selling all the leg work Naitch puts him in is irritating, but I can forgive him


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Speaking of NWO, watching 03 now. There was talk the other day of best triple main events on a show... well this might be the worst :lmao. Rock/Hogan is an abomination (and I expect it to hold up as such), the handicap match SD main event is terrible, and HHH/Steiner is HHH/Steiner :lmao.
> 
> Only at the opener but I don't see this show being good overall .


After watching Taker/Show from No Mercy '08, i wondered what their No Way Out '03 match was like having never seen it i don't think.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I need to rewatch the NWO handicap match because on last watch I enjoyed it a fair bit, but that was a few years ago. I can remember really liking Jericho/Hardy from that show as well. Looking at the card, the opening 4 matches look like they can all be at least good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Never been the biggest fan of their NWO 03 match. Wondering if that'll change tonight.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just watched Taker/Show NM 2008. I'd like to point out something: you KNOW you're having an absolute world class slug fest when you manage to make a freaking DDT into a believable false finish. The phrase "war" gets thrown around a lot on here, but frankly, there is no other way to describe this match. Some of the best punches I've ever seen from Taker, and a BAD ASS non-finish. Just Show teeing off on the back of Takers dome with a WMD punch causing the ref to end it before Show kills Taker. Made both guys look strong. Best match I've seen from these two, then again, have they had any other GREAT matches?

**** for it.

Watching Hardy/Hunter NM 2008 now. Will definitely skip the Ladder match though, no desire to see that overrated mediocrity again. Then again maybe I will watch it, Jericho IS pretty damn good in it. Shame Michaels was so bad.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That match is pretty overrated, but its not to the point where its a bad match imo, I still think its a ***3/4-**** affair. 

About to watch KOTR 2000, haven't seen this before


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

CS is right up their with NM for Show/Taker, and their cage match on SD is pretty fucking good too. Shame it took 9 years for them to get THAT chemistry despite having about 20 matches from 99 onwards .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I would have Taker/Show NM MOTY for 08 of it wasnt for shawn/naitch


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

NWO 2003 had a really shitty triple main event, but I found one even worse: Halloween Havoc 1992. Whose bright idea was it to allow The Barbarian to wrestle for over five minutes? Why did they have that stupid gimmick for the main event? And worst of all, how did Rude/Chono fail so badly when they had a classic that same year in Japan? Even UC at his worst was not as shitty as those two were that night. Even Chono/Muta the month after was better, and that barely qualifies as a match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

About to watch Brock/Eddie at NWO.

lol at Heyman screaming when Brock/Goldberg had their tussle earlier on the PPV. I'll also have to go back and see Brock's heel turn, god I miss him full time. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> I would have Taker/Show NM MOTY for 08 of it wasnt for shawn/naitch


Which one, the NM Ladder match? SAY IT AINT SO SKINS. Personally, I think 2008 is the toughest year since 2004 to pick a match of the year.



The Hitman said:


> About to watch Brock/Eddie at NWO.
> 
> lol at Heyman screaming when Brock/Goldberg had their tussle earlier on the PPV. I'll also have to go back and see Brock's heel turn, god I miss him full time.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


What a beautiful, beautiful, match that is. I will never grow tired of it. My all time favorite wrestler against one of my all time favorite bad guys, and boy guys give a career performance and lay it all on the line. I will ALWAYS respect the hell out of Brock for putting Eddie over so well even though he was pissed at Vince and on his way out the door. If Brock had gone in there and half assed it, Eddie's reign might not be nearly as memorable.

"JUST DIE EDDIE! GIVE UP LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO!"

Eddie takes one of the highest back drops I've ever seen in that match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was about to say the same thing, the height of that fucking drop lol. Some of Brock's power comes across so well in this match too, and the match as a whole is structured so well imo. 

Brock monstor heel is of course awesome and Eddie plays the comeback pretty perfect. Love it.

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----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...hy-andre-giant-top-5-goat-big-show-sucks.html

:bahgawd


There's a 105 matches big Kane set on XWT, gonna relive some of the them. I don't remember witnessing the FINLAY bouts.

Also, there's a really nice LMS pack:



> 1. 2006.08.18 - The Undertaker vs. The Great Khali (SmackDown!, Last Man Standing match)
> 
> 2. 2008.11.10 - Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels (Last Man Standing)
> 
> ...


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Which one, the NM Ladder match? SAY IT AINT SO SKINS. Personally, I think 2008 is the toughest year since 2004 to pick a match of the year.


Lol no I have Flair/Hbk mania 24 as MOTY but taker/show NM is a close second, I dont like hbk/y2j either from what I remember


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...hy-andre-giant-top-5-goat-big-show-sucks.html
> 
> :bahgawd
> 
> ...


Check out the Kane/Finlay Belfast Brawl on Smackdown. It's my second favorite Kane match ever (behind Bad Blood with Benoit) and it's a bad ass slug fest.



SKINS said:


> Lol no I have Flair/Hbk mania 24 as MOTY but taker/show NM is a close second, I dont like hbk/y2j either from what I remember



Why can't I read anymore? For some reason I swear I saw HBK/Y2J and I thought I remembered that you weren't a fan of thAt series but maybe you'd changed your mind. Carry on

Watched Flair/HBK WM 24 last night actually. Still as emotional as I remembered. My only gripe is I feel the first 5 or so minutes could have been done better, and there were a few miscues/botches, but it doesn't really detract from the match or anything. And HBK moonsaulting onto the table still looks as painful as ever. How he didn't break every rib in his body I will never know. And then the crazy asshole did it again! On the mats no less! And Flair barely caught him! I still come close to choking up when Flair fights and stands up for that last Super Kick, with real tears in his eyes. That was a MOMENT. You don't even have to be a Nature Boy fan to understand how significant that was.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I felt a greater emotional connection to HBK/Jericho NM 08 than to either Eddie/Brock or Flair/Michaels :side: That's an opinion you will never see here.

Kane/Finlay is sex. A lot of folks don't realize how good Finlay is when he shows human emotions. Because normally he shows inhumane brutality, but in the Belfast Brawl, he showed a different side that ruled. ******

:lmao There is a fraud in this forum that is trying to frame me.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Anyone else wanting HHH to win at WM now? :mark: :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I seem to be the only person who doesn't think Finlay/Kane is that good.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

:hunter


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

DoubtGin said:


> Anyone else wanting HHH to win at WM now? :mark: :mark:


I'm guessing that you also want Hornswoggle to break Undertaker's streak.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

If Vince has any brain left, he's gonna book Danielson to win the title at WM, only to lose it the very next night on Raw to Triple H.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm guessing that you also want Hornswoggle to break Undertaker's streak.


no


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Its a win-win for me, obv having Bryan go over against HHH would be great 

But the LOLS and RAGE if HHH beat Bryan might be better :lmao


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> But the LOLS and RAGE if HHH beat Bryan might be better :lmao


exactly :lmao :lmao


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

*Nature Boy Ric Flair: The Definitive Collection* 

:flair3

*Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling (August 18, 1982)*
Ric Flair vs. Jack Brisco - ***1/4

*World Class Championship Wrestling (August 24, 1982)*
Ric Flair vs. Kerry Von Erich - ****1/4

*Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling (August 31, 1983)*
Ric Flair vs. Harley Race - ***½

*World Wide Wrestling (December 15, 1985)*
Ric Flair, Arn & Ole Anderson vs. Dusty Rhodes, Magnum TA & Manny Fernandez - **½

*NWA Clash of the Champions (March 27, 1988)*
Ric Flair vs. Sting - ****3/4

*NWA Great American Bash (July 23, 1989)*
Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk - ***3/4

*WWF MSG (October 28, 1991)*
Ric Flair vs. Roddy Piper - ****

*WCW Spring Stampede (April 17, 1994)*
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - ****½

*WWE Taboo Tuesday (November 1, 2005)*
Ric Flair vs. Triple H - ****½

*WWE WrestleMania XXIV (March 30, 2008)*
Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels - ****1/4


_Match quality wise, this was a pretty damn great set of Flair matches, though I personally would've included Flair-Race Starrcade 83 and Funk-Flair I Quit matches over the Race and Funk matches in this, but that's just me. 
Only match that I think had no place in this DVD was the Four Horsemen match against Fernandez, Dusty and Magnum TA. 
I mean they surely could've come up with a better Horsemen match than that. 
All in all, I'd recommend people to check this out if you haven't. Really made me appreciate Flair even more than I did before._​


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Def disageree with the Flair/Sting match and Flair/Funk(too low) but otherwise those ratings look p.good (Y)

More :hunter talk pls


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

Yeah I knew people would disagree with the Funk match rating. I just couldn't get into it like I expected to for some reason.

what's wrong with the Sting match though?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The problem with the Sting match is that for 2/3 of the match, they just kept recycling the same exact spots again and again. It got kinda annoying after a while.

My body cannot deal with disappointment at Mania. At least I can catch up with CMLL if they pull that travesty.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Its basically the same match played twice, halfway through they basically just went back to what they were doing the first half 

Just dont think it needed to be an hour, I would only give it like ***1/2

Edit: Ninja'd


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

I'd like to know how do the people in this thread rate the HBK/Shelton match from the gold rush tournament in 2005 on RAW?

For a while many considered it one of the best matches in RAW History, seems to be forgotten now  


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----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

etrbaby said:


> I'd like to know how do the people in this thread rate the HBK/Shelton match from the gold rush tournament in 2005 on RAW?
> 
> For a while many considered it one of the best matches in RAW History, seems to be forgotten now


**** 1/2. Was shocked by how much I loved it. I hadn't heard too much about it beforehand, so I went into it just expecting a solid match.

I think I'd have it in Shawn's top 5 matches of his second run (haven't seen the Jericho '08 series yet, though).


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Shelton/Michaels is amazing. Having watched in a while, but it's one of my favorite Raw matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton/Bryan was decent, not as good as their other two Raw matches in the past few months but that's a given. fpalm @ that stupid ending, though.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

the ending ruined an otherwise pretty good match

too short for me


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This Lesnar/Taker feud is pretty bad. They're doing it all wrong.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

It's difficult to build up a decent feud if none of the wrestlers are actually there to promote.

It should be a good match at least but the segments leading up to their WM 30 match were rather uneventful so far (besides Taker's return).


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Still think Bryan is winning for sure. I like the new stip though. Will add more drama to the finishing stretch. Jesus Christ the crowd is gonna go insane when Trips hits the Pedigree. :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I dont even care about the feud for Lesnar/Taker because the match is gonna be fucking amazing


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Fandango just botched a suplex so hilariously :lmao


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

There's a new stipulation for HHH/Bryan at Mania? I missed that part of Raw.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> There's a new stipulation for HHH/Bryan at Mania? I missed that part of Raw.


If HHH wins, he is the one who enters the Batista/Orton match and it becomes a triple threat between HHH vs. Batista vs. Orton for the title.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> If HHH wins, he is the one who enters the Batista/Orton match and it becomes a triple threat between HHH vs. Batista vs. Orton for the title.


lol Hunter to win the whole damn thing :lmao


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> lol Hunter to win the whole damn thing :lmao


Would be hilarious


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> If HHH wins, he is the one who enters the Batista/Orton match and it becomes a triple threat between *HHH vs. Batista vs. Orton for the title.*


I think a ghost just went through me.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

LEL at UC being in the main event


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Pretty interesting ending to Raw. Got me more hyped for Bryan/Trips for sure.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

DAT BEATDOWN! DA GAME!


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

finally I can see Triple H fufill his boyhood dream of winning the title at Wrestlemania 30

so happy i will be there LIVE in person :mark:


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Triple H trying to redeem his triple threat match lost 10 years ago it seems.

Hunter/Bryan should be good :banderas


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

what a time for Chris Benoit to make his epic comeback


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Triple H face of the company in 2014 :banderas, he is even in the best shape he has been in in 5 years just for the burial


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

reDREDD said:


> what a time for Chris Benoit to make his epic comeback


The biggest work in the history of professional wrestling.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Lost in the shuffle was that fun 8-Man tag. What should have been a boring filler match turned out to be loads of fun thanks to :ziggler2

Not sure what The Shield is going to do at Mania, but I'm glad that they're staying together for a bit longer. Greatest team of all-time :rollins :reigns :ambrose


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*Smackdown 07/03/2003 - WWE Tag Team Championships: Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri vs. The Best Damn Tag Team Period *

That fuckin’ tag name :lmao Eddie drives this huge all black 4x4 truck that has hydraulics but Eddie somewhat drives it super close to the ring like the hood is on the mats. Haas and Tajiri start and it’s all good as they trade holds but Eddie tags in as the pace begins to quicken and we get some Shelton/Eddie goodness. Great back and forth reversals, and Eddie is on here just showing that he is without a doubt top 10 in ring. But as he takes out both men he panders to the crowd too long allowing Shelton to hit a sweet t-bone powerslammed allows the “Best Damn Tag Team Period” to go to work on him. Tajiri blind tags and takes out both men but on ‘Rana attempt from the outside Shelton holds on to Haas so Tajiri can’t roll though. That allows Benjamin to springboard in with a clothesline that gets two, they now begin to work the mid-section and neck with good heel tactics for a good portion of the match using an abdominal stretch but they try to do the switch behind the ref back but as the ref looks he can clearly see that one is black and the other is white so he makes them break the hold. More vicious mid-section work by the “Best Damn Tag Team Period” hitting the leap frog backdreaker but Eddie breaks it up then he runs out and grabs the tag rope to a huge pop, that allows Tajiri to hit a kick and tags in Eddie who has the GOAT hot tag and he debuts the triple verticals but only hits two, he tries the frog splash but Benjamin brings him down with a superplex. Tajiri hits the handspring elbow on Benjamin, but they end up on the floor. Haas covers Eddie for two. Both men get back to their feet and Eddie hits a tilt-a-whirl backbreaker for two. Benjamin puts him out with a suplex to the floor, and the heels double-team Tajiri as a result. Haas misses a charge and Tajiri kicks Benjamin down and puts Haas in the Tarantula. This allows Eddie to go up, but Benjamin rolls out of the way as Eddie comes crashing down to the mat. Shelton superkicks Tajiri onto the truck. As the ref goes to check on him Eddie drop toeholds Benjamin into the turnbuckle and stops to worry about Tajiri, allowing Haas & Benjamin to hit the superkick/rollup combo to give allowing Haas & Benjamin to win. Not on the level as their previous 2 SD matches but real good stuff from two real good teams. Post-Match: Tajiri is selling like a BOSS on the car, Eddie slowly walks towards him and has a real concern look on his face. Eddie has his hands open like he’s gonna hug him but instead shoves him off the hood and looks at his car in horror, screaming "MY CAR!" AWESOME! ***1/4

Back at ringside: Eddie is still horrified at his car. He turns and stomps and punches at Tajiri. He brings him up on the hood, and drops him down through the windshield! Eddie yells him as the crowd chants holy shit :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THRILLED that the Shield will be together come Wrestlemania, glad to see that they're being kept fresh with the face turn or whatever is going on.

When they break up, they deserve a co-main event storyline that chronicles the whole thing, not just the second match on the card come Wrestlemania


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Bless Tajiri.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The problem with the Sting match is that for 2/3 of the match, they just kept recycling the same exact spots again and again. It got kinda annoying after a while.


That sounds bad when you put it that way, but Sting/Flair > Flair/Steamer series.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Chismo said:


> That sounds bad when you put it that way, but Sting/Flair > Flair/Steamer series.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Probably no surprise but personally I still like Flair/Sting COTC. I do understand the argument about repeated spots though.

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----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

First headlock near fall of Flair vs Steamboat I > all Flair vs Sting matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> First headlock near fall of Flair vs Steamboat I > all Flair vs Sting matches.



That brutal chop exchange about halfway through the Flair/Steamboat 2/3 Falls COTC match>every non-Vader Sting match.

I really feel as though I'm missing something. I just don't enjoy many Sting match other than the ones he had with Vader, GAB with Flair, and the Regal match.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Okay hippies, I'm ready to fight all of you.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I love Sting. But the combo vs Flair has never done it for me on a "grand" scale. Off the top of my head the only singles match between the two I have dubbed under "great" was the Starrcade '89 bout. There's a fun chemistry between the two, though. Nothing I'd call remotely close to being better than Flair vs Steamboat. It's not conformity; it's legend for a reason.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Best Savage WCW matches? Were they only against Flair/DDP? 

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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sting sucks, his matches with Flair suck.

Where the feck was Undertaker last night? 

That video package for Lesnar/Taker was awesome.

ARNOLD SWASHANEGGERER on Raw next week? :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal he's gonna be on MAIN EVENT tonight. Thus meaning we have to now watch. Bastards.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye saw he was gonna be there. FINE WWE, I'LL FUCKING WATCH MAIN EVENT. For like the third time this year, which I guess is pretty good going...

Fallen behind with my 2014 Best of WWE projecty thingy. Finally got around to making DVD's so I can burn em and save space, got 5 discs done with just 2 matches left over to put on another disc once I add some more matches to it. Got nothing following EC so I should get back on that . Cody, anything non Raw + SD since the EC (aside from NXt Arrival duh) that I should take a look at? Got the Main Event with Bryan/Kane already.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sami Zayn vs Corey Graves - NXT 3/6
Dean Ambrose vs Mark Henry - Main Event 3/11


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cheers fella. Already got both shows downloaded.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Realized no matches were announced for Main Event tonight. Good. I would rather listen to Undertaker for 45 minutes, than seeing a bunch of matches that should be on Superstars.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Is Superstars still a thing? Has there been ANYTHING worth seeing on the show in like forever?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only the Swagger vs Kidd match I told you to check out. I actually think it might be done now. Don't believe there was a taping last week.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Still going:



Spoiler: does anyone actually care about superstars?



The following matches were taped prior to Monday's RAW from San Antonio, Texas for this week's episode of WWE Superstars:

* Natalya defeated Alicia Fox

* R-Truth defeated Heath Slater



:lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

What riveting entertainment.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No wonder I forgot it was even a thing.

17 hours until I has SD 08 downloaded :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember the long wait of excitement. Now I have it and stopped dead after cramming all the way up until May. 8*D

....perhaps some later today.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is Main Event on UK TV? 

:lol at Batista's 'spear'. It's a shoulder barge at best.

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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No idea. I only know when Raw & SD air in the UK, but I don't watch (or have access to) any WWE on TV so doesn't matter to me .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

They always do it, they ALWAYS fucking do it.

I was thinking the hype for Mania had been average at best, last week was okay but nothing special. I'm looking forward to Mania but just because it is Wrestlemania.

Holy shit, Trips and DBry just sold Mania for me, hook line and sinker. That opening promo was great and that finishing segment was the best of the year for me. It was beautifully done. They can do it when they set their minds to it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Isn't Taker on SD soon?

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----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Let's hope that Taker appears more often because right now, the build has been shit. I love all three guys in the feud, but even the divas have more animosity going.

Sting/DDP is a top five Sting match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE is only building up Danielson vs Triple H & the battle royal as it is. This entire WM has a bleak feel. Unless you're Bryan Danielson. Then you're reaping. Until the day of.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Eh, I've loved the video packages for Lesnar/Taker. I'm excited based on those. Plus I like how they are keeping both guys away from each other rather than having a confrontation every single week. Makes it more special come WM when they finally stand across from each other in the ring and prepare to murder each other.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, sometimes less is more. Video package was great, like how they played on Taker's 'declining years' aspect. 

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----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker & Lesnar could not show up following the awesome contract signing until WM and I'd still care as much as I do.

which is a FECKING METRIC TON, btw.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Taker/Lesnar is going to be a fantastic match regardless, but I do think the build could be better.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I said in another thread, I don't think they're particularly concerned about the lack of build for Taker/Lesnar. Taker/Lesnar is the weakest the streak build has been in several years (thus far), but ironically enough the match is still the biggest selling point of Mania due to it being Taker, Lesnar, and the streak on the line. They're basically the two biggest stars in the business right now going at it with the biggest prize in the business on the line. All they really need are video packages to keep hyping it up... and Heyman to keep trying to make people believe Lesnar actually has a chance. The feud never had to be any good (although it would've been nice if it had been). Ratings wise, they don't really need Taker and Lesnar there every week as Bryan/HHH are carrying that load excellently.

Hell though, the Taker/Lesnar feud could still end up great. They have two weeks left and it's my understanding that Taker and Lesnar will be there for both of them. Let's see what we get... we'll probably get a brawl of some sort for one of them (where Lesnar gets the better of Taker), and a three-way promo between Taker/Lesnar/Heyman for another.

Edit: Actually after mentioning it's the weakest the streak build has been in years, the last time I remember the build being this week was for Taker/HHH WM27. If you remember, they had that great staredown the first week (much like what Taker/Lesnar had... although Taker/Lesnar also had some physicality), and then for the next several weeks they just did promos on one another with the feud going absolutely no where and beginning to suck quite a bit. Then they did that final three-way promo between them and HBK and it brought the overall build back up to being pretty good in hindsight. It looks like that's the path Taker/Lesnar has taken/will take.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

Taker/Brock will be fine as the special attraction andwill help sell Mania take this match out, not sure Bryan/Hunter, Orton/Batista/Whoever, and Cena/Wyatt alone would be enough to completely sell WM XXX regardless how over Bryan is. So regardless of the feud this is an attraction much needed.

Besides they will likely close RAW the last two weeks since they are both there and Hunter/Bryan has closed last 3 weeks (well Bryan/Orton/Batista last week)


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Eulonzo said:


> Taker/Lesnar is going to be a fantastic match regardless, but I do think the build could be better.


It isn't easy to build a match when Heyman is the only one there every week to actually build the match. At this point I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't have another face to face confrontation until Wrestlemania. 

It really hurt things last year with Lesnar, Triple H, Rock, and Undertaker not being on TV every week when they were 4 of the 6 guys in the main events. But that's how WWE has been building Mania for the last few years it seems, you don't even get to see the guys together anymore. I mean last year Punk and Lesnar were the top heels, had the same manager, and ended up facing each other at Summerslam. They had no interaction with each other during the Mania build up. 

It's sad to think how good the weeks leading to Wrestlemania could be if everyone actually showed up and wrestled on TV. They used to have guys team up that were in the main events or do something where they would tease the matches. In a perfect world we would have seen a Cena/Punk/Lesnar vs. Undertaker/Rock/Triple H match during that build and it wold have just been the coolest thing ever and would have made sense since there was a ton of overlap in the feuds and everyone had a history together. 

But we don't get to see cool stuff like this because so many of the guys that are in the main events are part time wrestlers now.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

JY57 said:


> Besides they will likely close RAW the last two weeks since they are both there and Hunter/Bryan has closed last 3 weeks (well Bryan/Orton/Batista last week)


I'm sure they'll close Raw next week, but the final Raw they'll probably have Bryan/HHH/Orton/Batista all close to sell the Bryan/HHH and the title feud all in one.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Trips w/DAT BEATDOWN :mark:

Trips = THE GOAT HEEL :mark:

Trips to win the title :mark:

Trips :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TaylorFitz said:


> Cena/Punk/Lesnar vs. Undertaker/Rock/Triple H .


I'd kinda love a big multi man tag match like this, like in the old days. 

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----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Am I the only one that preferred the Cena/Wyatt segment to the Trips/Bryan segment? Thought it was absoloutely fantastic, probably my favourite segment of the year so far. Cena really turned it up with his promo and Wyatt's content doesn't seem nonsensical and directionless anymore. Before I felt the riddles and creepy metaphors were riddles and creepy metaphors simple for the sake of being riddles and creepy metaphors. Now there's substance to them w/ regards to Cena's character and they genuinely make sense :lol 

Also: CENA VS. HARPER :hb

Edit: Officially HYPED for Mania, as well. A Shield six man and something else to round out the card and it's prefect. Given Real Americans' victory over The Usos, maybe a tag between them and possibly RhodesBros?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Raw has really picked up the last three weeks. The video promos were on point.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> WWE is only building up Danielson vs Triple H & the battle royal as it is. This entire WM has a bleak feel. Unless you're Bryan Danielson. Then you're reaping. Until the day of.


Yea, I dont understand how anyone is HYPED or even semi interested in this RTWM, its been WOAT, honestly couldnt care less about any of these storylines. The HHH/Bryan/Steph segment last night was funny and decent, but overkill and I consider that the best thing this feud has done


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HHH/Bryan stuff has been superb, and it's now bleeding into the Batista/Orton match, which a couple weeks ago, I couldn't have possibly cared less about. Adding Bryan or HHH to that match makes it infinitely better for me, so I'm now happy with at least two of the matches.

Taker/Brock will be a great match no doubt, but I can't get into the build given Brock's limited schedule. Once the match takes place, I'll be glued to the TV, but until then, meh.

Battle Royale should be fun, and I'm hoping there are some surprise returns in store. I'd love for Cesaro to win, but I'd settle for them being in a tag title fatal fourway with Usos/Rhodes/NAO.

Cena/Wyatt build has been solid as well. It's refreshing not having Cena in the Mania title match/main event for a change.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

How much better would all this be if Bryan had won the Rumble, Brock had skipped the useless Big Show match and instead won the Elimination Chamber. Heyman on the mic going HARD at Bryan and g a "B+ Player" status with a hulking Brock standing behind him doing that cocky, arrogant, smirk. Jesus that could have been an ALL TIME great Mania main event, and it would free up Cena to take on the Streak and the Wyatt's and the Shield to have a 6 Man TLC match. We could have an "Evolution" 3 Way with Orton/Batista/Trips facing off for a #1 contendership with Ric Flair as the special guest referee. Good lord WWE, this stuff is NOT complicated.

I mean really, which would you rather see, the current WM 30 card, or this:

Bryan/Lesnar for the WWE Championship
Cena/Taker for the Streak
Trips/Batista/Orton w/Flair as the guest referee for the #1 contender spot, to face WWE champ at ER
Wyatt's vs The Shield TLC Match
Mark Henry vs Cesaro for the IC Title
Swagger vs Ziggler
Random Divas Tag
Cody Rhodes vs Goldust
30 Man Battle Royal


Bryan/Trips stuff last night was solid but nothing I'm particularly excited about. I still don't think Triple H is capable of giving Bryan the Star Making match he deserves in 2014, but we shall just have to see won't we?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, id love to see Brock/Bryan at some point tbh.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I just can't even these feuds where people are only there once every 3 weeks. Fuck else is Brock doing? Either commit to Mania or don't wrestle.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Brye said:


> I just can't even these feuds where people are only there once every 3 weeks. Fuck else is Brock doing? Either commit to Mania or don't wrestle.


Collecting a paycheck and railing Sable. :brock


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm already interested what Brock is doing at SummerSlam.  Please don't be something with Bootista, that is a 'dream' match for some cos they never had one before (apart from OVW)?

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----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Brock/Bryan at SummerSlam this year or I...well, I'm going anyways, but I'll be very unhappy if it doesn't happen.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I'll be there regardless, but I'd love to see that match in person.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'll mark out like a little kid if Bryan and Bork go at it. 

I'm planning to bring a giant cardboard cutout with either :bryan2 or :lelbrock


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

Brye said:


> I just can't even these feuds where people are only there once every 3 weeks. Fuck else is Brock doing? Either commit to Mania or don't wrestle.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Taker/Brock as a feud is disappointing (so far) but when they're standing across the ring from each other it won't really matter. It's still The Undertaker and Brock Lesnar. Obviously it sucks that the build has been so underwhelming but until Taker fights Cena, there isn't really much they can do with the streak matches any more and it felt that way for me last year too. It all peaked with the End of an Era 4 year arc at 28 and won't re-peak again until Taker gets Cena imo. So yeah, I look forward to the match and like I said, it's still Taker and Lesnar but the build has been pretty rubbish outside the first segment together and is getting left in the dust by everything else going on. 

Agreed with FLUX that the Cena/Wyatt promo was ridiculously good. They're being overshadowed by Hunter/Bryan but I absolutely love the material they're putting out. Wyatt's whole crusade against Cena is so compelling and to have Cena come out and admit that he's afraid of Bray AND the fact that we may be agreeing with what he's saying is just such wonderful storytelling. It's awesome, all the stuff about Cena sitting alone atop his castle etc etc. Such rich material and I'm really looking forward to the match. Bray said he wants the world to see Cena the way he sees him. I'm wondering what that means. Are we going to see Bray pull Cena to the dark side a little? I'd love if this match was the start of a slight character tweak to Cena. I'm not calling for a full blown heel turn because that isn't happening but perhaps a new mean streak to keep up with all the young guys or something? I don't know but yeah, I really look forward to the match. 

Bryan/Trips is just :mark: x infinity. Bryan is the perfect good guy and Hunter is the perfect bad guy. Even Orton and Batista were fantastic in their roles last night too. They're essentially the supporting actors of this saga and will then become the main act once the first match is over. Speaking of which, adding that stip just threw everything out the window with regards to predictability, such a smart move and I almost forgot Stephanie. :lmao Fucking Steph being a horny bitch during all that. DROWN HIM was probably the best line of the night. :lol

Really looking forward to next week and then the week after I'll be at the DC Raw. BOOTISTA HOME TOWN CROWD and the go hoome show. It's going to be epic. :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:

I reckon you Summerslam folks will be treated to Bryan/Batista this year. It only seems logical.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

If I'm still able to secure front row seats, I'm going to bring a giant blown up  and :hb signs.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> *Taker/Brock as a feud is disappointing (so far) but when they're standing across the ring from each other it won't really matter. It's still The Undertaker and Brock Lesnar. Obviously it sucks that the build has been so underwhelming but until Taker fights Cena, there isn't really much they can do with the streak matches any more and it felt that way for me last year too. It all peaked with the End of an Era 4 year arc at 28 and won't re-peak again until Taker gets Cena imo. So yeah, I look forward to the match and like I said, it's still Taker and Lesnar but the build has been pretty rubbish outside the first segment together and is getting left in the dust by everything else going on.*
> 
> Agreed with FLUX that the Cena/Wyatt promo was ridiculously good. They're being overshadowed by Hunter/Bryan but I absolutely love the material they're putting out. Wyatt's whole crusade against Cena is so compelling and to have Cena come out and admit that he's afraid of Bray AND the fact that we may be agreeing with what he's saying is just such wonderful storytelling. It's awesome, all the stuff about Cena sitting alone atop his castle etc etc. Such rich material and I'm really looking forward to the match. Bray said he wants the world to see Cena the way he sees him. I'm wondering what that means. Are we going to see Bray pull Cena to the dark side a little? I'd love if this match was the start of a slight character tweak to Cena. I'm not calling for a full blown heel turn because that isn't happening but perhaps a new mean streak to keep up with all the young guys or something? I don't know but yeah, I really look forward to the match.
> 
> ...


Sting/Taker next year (if they do it) might surprise you.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> If I'm still able to secure front row seats, I'm going to bring a giant blown up  and :hb signs.


HHH > CAL sign plz. 



JY57 said:


> Sting/Taker next year (if they do it) might surprise you.


I'm not too fussed on that tbh. It will be a spectacle for sure but as for the actual program itself, what is it based on? People are drawn to these 2 dark characters standing in the same ring for the first time and it will be an epic moment for sure but beyond that, what is the material? What are the promos based around? I see the novelty wearing off real fast with this and for me, Taker/Cena is the last big streak match WWE has to offer and the only streak match that will legitimately have people believing that it's could really all be over. I'd much rather see that than Sting/Taker.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

JY57 said:


> Sting/Taker next year (if they do it) might surprise you.


That is probably the least appealing Streak match they could possibly do tbh. Don't imagine the build up would be good, and Sting in his prime would have struggled to have a great match even with the fucking UNDERTAKER .


Put my name on any sign and I'll :mark: like fuck if it's shown on TV .


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> HHH > CAL sign plz.
> 
> 
> 
> *I'm not too fussed on that tbh. It will be a spectacle for sure but as for the actual program itself, what is it based on? People are drawn to these 2 dark characters standing in the same ring for the first time and it will be an epic moment for sure but beyond that, what is the material? What are the promos based around? I see the novelty wearing off real fast with this and for me, Taker/Cena is the last big streak match WWE has to offer and the only streak match that will legitimately have people believing that it's could really all be over. I'd much rather see that than Sting/Taker.*


WWE using the streak for special attraction anyways and thats big dream match especially with it being Sting's likely last match, in his home state, and after being in the HOF regardless of the feud.

But for an actual serious full blown feud I would say, the best choice is Bray Wyatt and John Cena obviously. I am sure people would say Bryan, but I don't see it being anything special (outside of the match obviously)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Put my name on any sign and I'll :mark: like fuck if it's shown on TV .


It worked for Yeah1993.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> HHH > CAL sign plz.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not too fussed on that tbh. It will be a spectacle for sure but as for the actual program itself, what is it based on? People are drawn to these 2 dark characters standing in the same ring for the first time and it will be an epic moment for sure but beyond that, what is the material? What are the promos based around? I see the novelty wearing off real fast with this and for me, Taker/Cena is the last big streak match WWE has to offer and the only streak match that will legitimately have people believing that it's could really all be over. I'd much rather see that than Sting/Taker.



This x infinity.

The only two Streak matches I have any interest in seeing are Cena and Bryan. That's it. You hit the nail on the head, what the hell would Sting and Taker have to feud about? And what's more, can we really count on two men whose combined age is over 100 to put on the match that everyone THINKS they should have? The novelty of seeing them together in the ring will wear off real quick when everyone realizes Sting can't wrestle anymore, regardless of how good Taker is, he's no miracle worker. Maybe back in 2008 he could have made it work, but by the time they potentially wrestle, it'll be 7 years past Takers prime and about 20 years past Stings prime. 

Give us Cena and Bryan then let Taker ride off into the sunset. I'll be a happy man and Taker will retire as one of the 5 greatest wrestlers in WWE History. Not too shabby.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

JY57 said:


> WWE using the streak for special attraction anyways and thats big dream match especially with it being Sting's likely last match, in his home state, and after being in the HOF regardless of the feud.
> 
> But for an actual serious full blown feud I would say, the best choice is Bray Wyatt and John Cena obviously. I am sure people would say Bryan, but I don't see it being anything special (outside of the match obviously)


Cena will give Taker the send off he deserves but I'm with you on Bray. That feud has the potential to be incredible. The promos Bray could cut on Taker would be unreal and it would have solid meat on the bones as opposed to just being a match the way Taker/Brock is or Taker/Bryan would be if it ever happened because I can't see a feud between them being any good either no matter how good the match may be.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> Cena will give Taker the send off he deserves but I'm with you on Bray. That feud has the potential to be incredible. The promos Bray could cut on Taker would be unreal and it would have solid meat on the bones as opposed to just being a match the way Taker/Brock is or Taker/Bryan would be if it ever happened because I can't see a feud between them being any good either no matter how good the match may be.


You can't see Bryan becoming a bit heelish like his early 2013 "weak link" Hell No character, deciding that the only way he can prove himself is by taking down the Streak, and having Taker come out and give him one of those "Boy, I got more shower time than you've got ring time" type promos? Granted not the most riveting thing in the world, but there is enough substance there for the promos to be pretty good and the match to be a classic.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> If I'm still able to secure front row seats, I'm going to bring a giant blown up  and :hb signs.


:mark:

Hi.

I'll have more to contribute when I've seen RAW.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck me, NWO 03 has 4 HORRIBLE matches in a row... to close the damn show :|. And a shitty undercard outside of 2 matches as well. I'm not sure I can sit through the rest of this show (3 matches left) :lmao.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You can't see Bryan becoming a bit heelish like his early 2013 "weak link" Hell No character, deciding that the only way he can prove himself is by taking down the Streak, and having Taker come out and give him one of those "Boy, I got more shower time than you've got ring time" type promos? Granted not the most riveting thing in the world, but there is enough substance there for the promos to be pretty good and the match to be a classic.


Bray/Taker would blow Bryan/Taker out of the water in terms of story imo. But the match would obviously reverse lol. I'm not opposed to Bryan/Taker at all but like I said before, for me personally, the Cena program is the only real possible steak match left with any meaning behind it for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Who knows how long Taker is going for now, but I would be very disappointed if didn't get Cena/Taker. It would be a massive missed opportunity imo. Even IF Sting signs, if we we only guaranteed one more Taker match, it has to be Cena.

Does anyone think we'll ever get it though?

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----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Wyatt needs to happen, but I think should happen outside of Mania, so Taker can properly put Wyatt over (not just having Wyatt look good in defeat, but actually losing to Wyatt). Have them fight at Summerslam, let that be the big Summer match for this year. Plus if Cena beats Wyatt at Mania and Wyatt beats Taker at Summerslam, and then Taker/Cena happens @ Mania 31, then Cena would beat Taker at Mania, well, except for the fact Taker gets super-resilience at Mania, which would make it even more unpredictable, if it wasn't enough already.

Taker can beat Cena and if Bryan rises to Cena's level over the next couple of years, he could be ready to be another kayfabe AND non-kayfabe threat to the streak by Wrestlemania 32. Or maybe they do it at WM33, where Taker could go 25-0 and retire or put over Bryan big time by falling. If Bryan's overness remains throughout all those years (which I'd be shocked if it does, even in Bryan's case), it'd be the only way the fans would accept the streak ending I think. And if he doesn't and he starts getting mixed reactions as fans get sick of seeing him in the main event, then they could use that to fuel Bryan's heel turn and putting over the next top face afterwards following him.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Honestly, I don't care for Cena/Taker. The hell with JAWN, I'd rather see them build Ambrose or Wyatt to take down the streak at WM 31. Both of them are looneys, and both will be in the fed for at least 10-15 more years, so that's one helluva investment.

lelcena


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WWE do have a habit of not giving us certain BIG matches we want, so I wouldn't be surprised if we never get it.

Speaking of, I soooo wish Scott Hall stayed in WWE rather than leaving in 96 for WCW. We never got Razor Vs Undertaker .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Flux said:


> Am I the only one that preferred the Cena/Wyatt segment to the Trips/Bryan segment? Thought it was absoloutely fantastic, probably my favourite segment of the year so far. Cena really turned it up with his promo and Wyatt's content doesn't seem nonsensical and directionless anymore. Before I felt the riddles and creepy metaphors were riddles and creepy metaphors simple for the sake of being riddles and creepy metaphors. Now there's substance to them w/ regards to Cena's character and they genuinely make sense :lol


I'm with you on that, although I didn't think much of the Bryan/HHH segment as it is. Wyatt's promo was fantastic though, had me marking out. I'm really hoping after he loses to Cena, he doesn't get lost in the shuffle/buried. I'm starting to really mark for the guy, and I need someone I mark for on the top of the card right now, as everyone else I mark for either left, is going to leave after Mania, or is getting buried.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched a couple of Mean Mark Callous matches.  Weird seeing Heyman with would be Taker.

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----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Here is a question for Cal and anyone else really:

If you had a time portal and could grab any wrestler from any era for a Streak match with the Undertaker, with the stipulation that it had to be the greatest Streak match ever or you would die a horrible, painful death, which wrestler would you choose? 

For instance if you think Savage would be the best, you would say:

1986 Randy Savage vs 2008 Undertaker.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If i had a time portal, i think I'd try and bottle 2007 Taker for a start. I'll have to have a think, probably Benoit from some period.

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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

1985 Flair Vs 2006-Current Undertaker... maybe. Not sure now actually. Maybe if Undertaker was heel, because I don't think a "typical Flair" match from that time would quite suit Undertaker and THE STREAK.

1980's Lawler Vs 2006-Current Undertaker, now THAT would be fucking tremendous. Heel Lawler of course. Using all his sneaky tricks to try and end THE STREAK. Hell roles reversed and we got babyface Lawler trying to overcome Satan himself. Imagine Lawler making his comeback against an evil Undertaker in the Mid-South Coliseum :mark:. 

Mid 90's Jake Roberts Vs 2006-Current Undertaker. Oh man oh man oh man. Give them 20 minutes and holy fuck their WM 8 match (which I like given the time it got) would look like the worst match ever. Heel Roberts obviously. Build up alone would be the greatest thing ever.

Those are just 3 off the top of my head. Honestly wouldn't go with Savage, I like him but I don't love him. Would love to get my hands on their house show matches in 93 or whenever when one of them was a replacement for the other's opponent (but sadly nobody seems to have the footage), but honestly I don't see them clicking in a big time match with how Savage plans everything out and shit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Man, already thought of a couple more. Fuck it, I'm stealing the idea and turning it into a written content feature on my blog .


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Honestly would probably be current day Brock vs. Taker from a few years back, say 08, when he wasn't so beaten up but really hit his stride in terms of knocking it out of the park whenever he got in the ring. I guess if we're just talking about the match it's self and not the build, a 2010 Rey Mysterio would be one of my top choices vs. a heel Taker, but obviously there's no way you could build him as a viable threat, no matter how good the match it's self may be. Same applies for an 09 Christian.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah Cal, Savage was filling in for The Ultimate Warrior.

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----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Honestly 2014 Undertaker Vs 2014 Brock Lesnar actually sounds like one of the greatest possible streak matches on paper anyways .

HHH/Bryan will be fantastic as will Cena/Wyatt I'm sure, this is shaping up to be one of the greatest Wrestlemanias on paper that I can remember in a very long time. They are doing a great job hyping up the battle royal and I'm thinking that it's going to be alot of fun and that it definitely WILL NOT be placed on the pre show. Batista's bitch character is hilarious though, I'm glad that he exists for that reason :lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Don't think I have seen any of the Taker/Razor Ramon matches tbh, I know they faced off in 92/93. 

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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Hitman said:


> Don't think I have seen any of the Taker/Razor Ramon matches tbh, I know they faced off in 92/93.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


They had ONE singles match which was a dark match in 1992, and they faced each other ONCE in a 6 man tag in 1995. That's it .


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

They had an average match in 94/95, or so.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hmmm... can only find a record of their dark match in 1992, but a quick youtube search brought up what I assume is that 1992 match filmed for a Coliseum Home Video. Can't find anything from 94 or 95 though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> They had ONE singles match which was a dark match in 1992, and they faced each other ONCE in a 6 man tag in 1995. That's it .


I seem to have these three matches on a razor comp:

Razor Ramon v. Undertaker (Hersheypark Arena 9/1/92)
Razor Ramon v. Undertaker (Dayton, OH 11/24/92)
The Undertaker v. Razor Ramon (San Francisco, CA Cow Palace 12/11/92 - Handheld Event)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

House show matches by the looks, explains why I couldn't find records of them on the site I used, it only has TV/Video released matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'll have to dig the comp out, but I'm sure the first two looked like TV tapings tbh. One of them like you say is probably a home video airing.

In fact ill have to look through my remaining VHS tapes, sure one match is on there, best grudge matches or something. 

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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

First one is the Superstars "dark match" that was taped for the UK Rampage video, the second is from Invasion of the Bodyslammers it seems.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ah, i'm sure I've still got those two on video lol. 

There is also pre Taker tagging with Scott Hall. 

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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao Lord Alfred Hayes continues to be one of the worst commentators ever in this RK Rampage match. Razor RAM ON :lmao.


----------



## Pharmakon (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm going to see SmackDown today, I wonder if Alexander Rusev will wrestle in a Dark match


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Honestly, 2009 Shawn Michaels vs. 2009 Undertaker would have been a GOAT streak match.................... OH wait it happen and was :hbk


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Ratings for Foley/Steamboat series?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Scott Hall :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Honestly, 2009 Shawn Michaels vs. 2009 Undertaker would have been a GOAT streak match.................... OH wait it happen and was :hbk



Haha, that's what I'm saying, you have to pick someone to TOP that 2009 match, or you die:|

Cal, go right on and steal it, just make sure if you actually follow through and write something on it, you put some good thought into it, as that would make a fantastic read.

My picks: 2004 Benoit in a Face/Face encounter, or 2005 Eddie, being the most vicious, sadistic, ill tempered heel ever. That would be a cool dynamic too, having the heel be so much smaller than the face. Eddie would have to turn the intensity up to Benoit levels to get the heat, but man it could be amazing.

OR, 1989 Terry Funk. In a Street Fight. Middle Aged and crazy, the Funker decides he has to break the Streak. Cuts the mostly rambling, insane promo ever where he uses the phrase "banana nosed bastard" 23 times.

All vs Taker from 2008, obviously


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ooooo FUNK, forgot about him.

Definitely gonna do something for my site with it, gonna spend a couple of weeks and try and do some sort of "WM week" I think, the week leading up to WM 30, with the day of WM being when I post my big WM special video (4 years in the making... hopefully I get it done this year :lmao). Just need some more ideas for the week... 

Steamboat/Cactus matches... I only seem to remember one and it was fairly short, but pretty good for the time given since its fucking STEAMBOAT and FOLEY. Tried looking up my thoughts on the match but couldn't find it. Dammit, where's Craig when you need him? He can probably recite the match move for move or something, the crazy alcoholic foley loving bastard.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cjack Benoit had a match with heel Eddie in 2005 at ONS and it sucked .I'm sure you know that but I still dont get how that was a bad match, same with Mysterio/Psycosis from the same show 

I would love to see 1985 Flair vs 2014 Bryan or 1989 Steamer vs 2014 Bryan :moyes1


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Honestly I think the most interesting streak match to be would be one where either Taker is in grave danger and getting destroyed for most of it, or one where he clearly has the upperhand yet the heel cheats his way through every single move. IDK about topping his best streak match, but I think he's had a good few matches better than his best streak match anyway. The 03 Angle match to me is pretty safely ahead of any match he's had at Mania with the maybe possibly exception of XXV. Even in these years of being consistently excellent, he's still been saddled with Edge and HHH and a sucky 2010 Michaels.


IDK what I was really trying to say but after thinking about it for 7 seconds my answer is Taker v. la Parka.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

There was some fucking great stuff on RAW this week. The obvious being Triple H/Bryan. Bryan took some serious shit there, bumping like that without the use of arms or hands must've hurt like hell. The segment in general was great because Trips now seems like the vilest motherfucker walking the earth and that's how he should be in this feud. Bryan now seems like even more of an underdog than he did before. He still stood there and said nothing which was annoying, but if this isn't the breaking point for him and he isn't out for blood now I don't know what would ever be and they're stupid if they have him come out next week smiling. This needs some heat from Bryan to make the match feel really personal, which btw I am now way more excited for based on this segment alone. I'm hoping they murder each other now. Maybe make it a no DQ or something, as long as it isn't the traditional modern day WWE No DQ match like we saw on this show with Bryan/Orton, with a kendo stick and some chairs etc, more like a fight were the ref just lets shit go. Would be awesome. Hunter was fantastic in this, really great stuff from him and obviously the best thing we've seen him do for years. Bryan looked so sympathetic here, anyone who doesn't want to see him get revenge now has no soul.

There's no way Bryan isn't winning the Hunter match, but adding that stipulation to their match does add a slither of doubt I guess because for some reason I can see them actually thinking he will save the main event more than Bryan will. Nah that couldn't happen...could it? It would be so awful if it did. Even more of a reason to get behind Bryan at 'Mania I guess. I enjoyed the first segment too actually, Orton's pose after RKO'ing Bootista made me smile.

Bray/Cena promo was really good. I actually think this might be ok, I'm looking forward to it from more of a character display than a wrestling classic for example which I'm sure it will deliver the goods on.

Bray is brilliant. I genuinely think he's amazing because he's so fucking compelling to watch in the ring purely through his character work without even doing much but a few punches/headbutts etc. That fucking elbow though. Jesus wept that thing is VILE. I could watch Bray Wyatt destroy Kofi every day for the rest of my life.

I'm not even a little excited for Brock/Taker right now. Heyman coming out and saying the same shit every week just does not cut it..at all.

Shield are awesome and I'm so happy they're deciding to keep them together as they go on a babyface run. No way I want to see one of them become a babyface and the others not. So what the hell is the triple threat at Mania going to be? I can't think of anything or anyone logical that Kane would team with now, or at least any trio of heels that aren't on the card already that will be any good.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Cjack Benoit had a match with heel Eddie in 2005 at ONS and it sucked .I'm sure you know that but I still dont get how that was a bad match, same with Mysterio/Psycosis from the same show
> 
> I would love to see 1985 Flair vs 2014 Bryan or 1989 Steamer vs 2014 Bryan :moyes1


Smitty, we are talking about STREAK matches, opponents for Taker that could top his Streak match with HBK.



Yeah1993 said:


> Honestly I think the most interesting streak match to be would be one where either Taker is in grave danger and getting destroyed for most of it, or one where he clearly has the upperhand yet the heel cheats his way through every single move. IDK about topping his best streak match, but I think he's had a good few matches better than his best streak match anyway. The 03 Angle match to me is pretty safely ahead of any match he's had at Mania with the maybe possibly exception of XXV. Even in these years of being consistently excellent, he's still been saddled with Edge and HHH and a sucky 2010 Michaels.
> 
> 
> IDK what I was really trying to say but after thinking about it for 7 seconds my answer is Taker v. la Parka.


Figures you'd say La Parka :lmao

I agree with your recipe for greatest streak match ever, have Taker be in constant jeopardy or have a truly great heel cheat his way through every step. The only all time great heel I can think of who would put Taker in such physical jeopardy would be Vader, or maybe Henry. Since those matches already happened, I didn't mention them as the possibility. Then again, would someone like 2006 Finlay be up to the task of beating Taker down to the point that defeat seems eminent? Possibly. 

That leaves either 2003 or 2005 Eddie as the best viable heel to cheat his way to a believable "Streak Ending Moment".

Then again, maybe 2013 Lesnar and an in his prime 2008 Taker could top it.


I don't think WM 25 is Takers best match, that honor belongs to the original Hell in a Cell match in my estimation.

Good job pimping that 2003 Smackdown match with Angle, I was just trying to think of something to watch and this seems perfect. Only saw it the once when Cal reviewed it like 6 months ago and gave it ****3/4. I didn't pay as close attention as I would have liked on the first viewing, so it'll be like watching it for the first time. All I remember is an incredibly heated finishing stretch with some awesome false finishes and a crazy crowd.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Smitty, we are talking about STREAK matches, opponents for Taker that could top his Streak match with HBK.


fpalm at me then, I just thought we were discussing GOAT potential match ups :lol 

Honestly though I agree with Cal, Lawler/Taker might be GOAT :mark:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> IDK what I was really trying to say but after thinking about it for 7 seconds my answer is Taker v. la Parka.


Did you ever watch the Parka/Wagner brawl from last year btw? Tremendous Parka showing in particular, although it's a great match in of itself. Sadly the final few minutes of the trecera caida and the finish itself aren't the payoff needed to complete the match, but it's a minor quibble and doesn't detract from the tremendous bloody brawl beforehand. Match starts with Parka flipping the bird whilst a chair burns in the ring, so you know right off the bat you're in for something unique.

I'mma watch Cesaro/Zayn IV tonight. I know I told you folks that on Friday, but this time I really will oblige and not be a rotten bastard who keeps getting distracted.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Shit, I loved Park/Wagner, although I didn't find it a MOTYC like Rah and bunch of others. I gave it ***1/2. Damn fine brawl, but lacked excitement down the ctretch.

I just realized I never checked La Parka vs. La Parka from 2010. Criminal.

Oh, and I'll never forgive Vince for not going with Taker/Angle rematch at WM 2006. Cocksucker.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Chismo said:


> Shit, I loved Park/Wagner, although I didn't find it a MOTYC like Rah and bunch of others. I gave it ***1/2. Damn fine brawl, but lacked excitement down the ctretch.
> 
> I just realized I never checked La Parka vs. La Parka from 2010. Criminal.
> 
> Oh, and I'll never forgive Vince for not going with Taker/Angle rematch at WM 2006. Cocksucker.


If you're looking for Parka bloodbaths, you can't overlook Parka/Santo from Monterrey in '01. It's on youtube. Great brawl, and both bleed a disgusting amount. As in, disgusting even for La Parka amounts. It looked like both were extras in a Tarantino movie.

As for Parka/Wagner, it tailed off towards the end and was mired by a dodgy finish, but it was probably one of my favourite matches from last year. Not necessarily one of the very best, but certainly one which I found a lot of enjoyment from and was a Lucha brawl done well. It's only just occurred to me I completely forgot to watch Virus/Maya II. Christ.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I haven't seen anything from la parka, someone tell me what to watch from them :mark:


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> If you're looking for Parka bloodbaths, you can't overlook Parka/Santo from Monterrey in '01. It's on youtube. Great brawl, and both bleed a disgusting amount. As in, disgusting even for La Parka amounts. It looked like both were extras in a Tarantino movie.
> 
> As for Parka/Wagner, it tailed off towards the end and was mired by a dodgy finish, but it was probably one of my favourite matches from last year. Not necessarily one of the very best, but certainly one which I found a lot of enjoyment from and was a Lucha brawl done well. It's only just occurred to me I completely forgot to watch Virus/Maya II. Christ.


Virus/Maya II was surreal. They didn't move from the centre of the ring for the first 10 minutes. STRUGGLE!


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Getting hyped for Taker/Lesnar at Mania:

*Brock Lesnar (c) vs. The Undertaker - WWE Championship - WWE Unforgiven 2002: ***3/4*
No motorcycle entrance from The Undertaker, indicating that his feud with Lesnar has gotten personal when he laid his hands on the womb of his then-wife Sara and that Taker means business. The match starts off with Brock going up to Taker's face having a stare down until Taker shoves him. Brock shows his power by shoving Taker after two lockups until Taker shows power of his own by shoving Lesnar out of the ring after the third one. Lesnar gets pissed and returns to the ring where Taker goes on the offensive. Heyman distracts Taker by having Taker kick him out of the ring apron, giving Lesnar a chance to beat of Taker's ribs by shoving his shoulders onto his stomach and pulling Taker's ribs onto the ring post. Lesnar continues to work on the ribs until Taker goes on a quick comeback. The comeback stops when Heyman interferes again by distracting the ref, leaving Lesnar to hit Taker with the title, busting him open in the process. Lesnar shows his aggressiveness and brutality by attacking Taker's wounds from repeatedly punching it to shoving his forearm onto it. Taker goes on another comeback but inadvertently takes out the referee by throwing Lesnar onto him at the turnbuckle. It appears the Taker's going to win after the chokeslam but since the ref is out, there's no one to count the fall. This leads to Matt Hardy interfering (I don't know why lol) but Taker quickly takes him out after the Last Ride. Lesnar gets the opportunity to do the spine buster onto Taker and tries to pin him as the ref slowly gets back to his senses to steal the victory, but Taker kicks out. The match escalates into back and forth action until there's another ref bump. Heyman throws a steel chair into the ring so Lesnar could get the advantage but Taker kicks Lesnar in the face and delivers two brutal chair shots of his own onto Lesnar's head (the chair got bent as fuck). The match goes into a brawl, so chaotic to the point where the ref lost all control and called for the bell after Lesnar shoved him when he was brawling with Taker, making the match end in a DQ or a no contest. The fight's not finished yet and the brawl escalates outside of the ring where ref's couldn't contain the both of them and Taker throws Lesnar onto the "Unforgiven" stage. Pretty cool.

*Brock Lesnar (c) vs. The Undertaker - WWE Championship - Hell in a Cell match - WWE No Mercy 2002: ****1/2*
The Undertaker enters this match with a cast on his right hand after Lesnar injured it by slamming a propane tank onto it weeks prior. The match starts off with Taker using his cast to his advantage as it proves to be a deadly weapon and busts Lesnar open a few minutes into the match. Taker uses the Cell to his advantage to repeatedly throwing Lesnar onto it to shoving Lesnar's face like a cheese grater. In the midst of Taker beating the crap out of Lesnar, he also attacks Heyman (who was outside of the Cell) from kicking his face when he was near the Cell to pulling his arm (since there was a hole that he could fit his arm into) shoving Heyman's face, busting him open in the process. Lesnar bounces back by ramming Taker's spine onto the ring post then onto the corner of the Cell. Heyman gives Lesnar his belt to tie Taker's injured hand onto the Cell, leaving his injury vulnerable. Lesnar then slammed a steel chair onto Taker's hands, repeatedly in brutal fashion. Lesnar tries to take off Taker's cast but Taker tries to fight him off. When Lesnar finally succeeds in taking the cast off, Lesnar worked on the injured hand. Taker goes on a comeback by throwing Lesnar out of the ring and does a suicide dive onto him. Taker tries to hurt Lesnar even more by using the steel steps but his injury prevents him from picking it up, giving Brock the oppotunity to attack. Lesnar uses the steel steps to his advantage by delivering not one, but two brutal shots to Taker's temple, leaving him an extremely bloody mess. The match escalates to back and forth action from Taker doing the chokeslam, Lesnar countering the Old School, to Lesnar repeatedly striking Taker's open wound. As Brock had the Undertaker vulnerable at the corner delivering strikes to his open wound, Taker counters it into the Last Ride. As Taker was bleeding profusely and was spent from the battle, it took him a while to regain his composure to go for the pin, but Lesnar grabs the rope for a rope break before the count went to 3. The Undertaker signals for the Tombstone and tries to execute it, but Brock counters it by lifting him up and executes the F-5 and gets the victory. This match a bloody and brutal and it was great. It had blood, it was violent, it had great psychology and storytelling, and it was fun to watch and it made Lesnar even more legitimate.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Forgot that Main Event was on tonight, so I missed the first few minutes of CodyDust vs. Real Americans :vince7

Oh well, UNDERTAKER appearing tonight is :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

How about Lesnar's fucking strength when he counters that Tombstone into an F5? He has Taker, a 300 pound man, cradled in his arms, then he just TOSSES Taker onto his shoulders, and whips him around like a rag doll for the F5. This is after 25+ minutes of a brutal Hell in a Cell match. Unreal. Just completely unreal. I know Henry is the Worlds Strongest Man, and Cesaro is as strong as anybody wrestling these days, but no one has ever used their strength the way Lesnar did back then. He would do things on a weekly basis that just make he shake my head in disbelief. How a human being, while they are completely physically exhausted, can just toss a 300 pound man on their shoulders and whip him around like that, I will never, EVER, understand.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> How about Lesnar's fucking strength when he counters that Tombstone into an F5? He has Taker, a 300 pound man, cradled in his arms, then he just TOSSES Taker onto his shoulders, and whips him around like a rag doll for the F5. This is after 25+ minutes of a brutal Hell in a Cell match. Unreal. Just completely unreal. I know Henry is the Worlds Strongest Man, and Cesaro is as strong as anybody wrestling these days, but no one has ever used their strength the way Lesnar did back then. He would do things on a weekly basis that just make he shake my head in disbelief. How a human being, while they are completely physically exhausted, can just toss a 300 pound man on their shoulders and whip him around like that, I will never, EVER, understand.


That was one of my favorite moments in that match, it was awesome. That whole match was awesome with both men being bloodied (The Undertaker even moreso, Jesus Christ that was nasty) and the Cell actually being used as a weapon. That's something that doesn't happen in Hell in a Cell matches nowadays, which makes me wonder why bother having it every year for feuds that don't even warrant it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> That was one of my favorite moments in that match, it was awesome. That whole match was awesome with both men being bloodied (The Undertaker even moreso, Jesus Christ that was nasty) and the Cell actually being used as a weapon. That's something that doesn't happen in Hell in a Cell matches nowadays, which makes me wonder why bother having it every year for feuds that don't even warrant it.


I don't consider any match that happened at the "Hell in a Cell" PPV a real Cell match. That PPV is one of the single worst things WWE has ever come up with, along with the TLC PPV. If I were Taker, I'd be pissed that all the blood, sweat, and energy I exerted turning Hell in a Cell into the single greatest gimmick match of all time has been wasted because WWE Creative can't create compelling enough feuds to build to a Cell match. They use that PPV as a crutch to give the fans a Cell match every year without having to put the effort into booking a proper feud. That was always the best part about Taker starting a new feud, you just KNEW if it got good enough, if there was enough animosity and hatred built up, it would end in a bloody cell match, and that match 99% of the time would be the best match in the entire feud.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:mark: for Taker being on Main Event tonight. The last time I watched something from ME was the Cena/Orton video package just to see the one second shot of Benoit getting pinned by Orton. Now they give me an actual reason to watch even if it still wont be live.

On the topic of Taker dream match for the streak that could've beat HBK (WM25). I've said it before but giving him and Benoit 20-25 minutes at WM22 and they would've stolen the show and put on a match just as good as the HBK one. Or maybe not because I doubt Benoit would have gotten the chance to kick out of the Tombstone which is one of the reasons why WM25 is legendary.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> How a human being, while they are completely physically exhausted, can just toss a 300 pound man on their shoulders and whip him around like that, I will never, EVER, understand.


You forgot that BORK LASER is not a normal human being. He's the beast. A MONSTER. :brock


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sheamus/Orton and Orton/Bryan kinda utilized the cell, but they didn't feel brutal enough to move from being a good match to an all-time great cell match. The triple threat in 2011 is super underrated and most of it was really good (especially for a triple threat cell match), but Punk was the only one that was willing to take bumps and make it somewhat brutal. That match along with the shitty main event of HIAC 2009 both utilized the cell, but not in the best possible way.

And let us also not forget that the company was stupid enough to have a red hot CM Punk lose cleanly to Alberto Del Rio :bosh :kobe2


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

DAT UNDERTAKER :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Damn, Taker can say the corniest shit and make it awesome. Cena's gotta stop trying to be him. :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Sheamus/Orton and Orton/Bryan kinda utilized the cell, but they didn't feel brutal enough to move from being a good match to an all-time great cell match. The triple threat in 2011 is super underrated and most of it was really good (especially for a triple threat cell match), but Punk was the only one that was willing to take bumps and make it somewhat brutal. That match along with the shitty main event of HIAC 2009 both utilized the cell, but not in the best possible way.
> 
> And let us also not forget that the company was stupid enough to have a red hot CM Punk lose cleanly to Alberto Del Rio :bosh :kobe2


Honestly, I hate bringing this match up AGAIN, but even the HiaC match at WM 28 didn't feel like a real cell match to me. The last Cell match that occurred that I consider legit is the one Taker had with Edge at SS 2008. I'm not even that big a fan of that match, but it was definitely the real deal.

That Triple Threat in 2011 is a pretty damn good match, no question about it, but it would have been just as good as a normal match. Outside a few Punk bumps like you mentioned, you couldn't differentiate it from any regular triple threat match. I'd honestly rather them not do it at all over giving us a massively watered down version of it.

Guess I'll have to watch Main Event when I wake up tomorrow.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Are there any good matches on Main Event tonight?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Real Americans vs. The Brotherhood was pretty fun from what I saw


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> How about Lesnar's fucking strength when he counters that Tombstone into an F5? He has Taker, a 300 pound man, cradled in his arms, then he just TOSSES Taker onto his shoulders, and whips him around like a rag doll for the F5. This is after 25+ minutes of a brutal Hell in a Cell match. Unreal. Just completely unreal. I know Henry is the Worlds Strongest Man, and Cesaro is as strong as anybody wrestling these days, but no one has ever used their strength the way Lesnar did back then. He would do things on a weekly basis that just make he shake my head in disbelief. How a human being, while they are completely physically exhausted, can just toss a 300 pound man on their shoulders and whip him around like that, I will never, EVER, understand.


Easily my favourite Brock Lesnar moment. A lot of people remember stuff like the F5 on Henry, the Big Show superplex etc. but that moment stands out to me, for all of the reasons that you've mentioned. It helps that it occurs at the end of an amazing match, that I can sit down and watch if given even the slightest excuse. On the subject of Lesnar/Taker matches:

Unforgiven 2002 - **3/4
No Mercy 2002 - ****3/4
No Mercy 2003 - **

It's too bad that they were given a DQ finish and a *stupid fucking gimmick* to work with on two of the occasions that they met on PPV. I don't expect their upcoming WrestleMania match to live up to the Hell in a Cell match, but as long as they're allowed to just go at it for 20 minutes, I think it will be very good. My main hope is that the match isn't too indulgent, like his last two matches with Triple H, which just went for a million years. It's only an extra five minutes compared to Punk/Taker, or HBK/Taker II, but it totally kills me.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*King of the ring 2000 review 

Match #1: Rikishi vs Chris Benoit *

:mark: this match looks like it could be a ton of fun, and because it’s a KOTR match it’ll probably be relatively short, which is pretty good because Rikishi seems to be better in short matches :lol. Benoit somehow fucking SUPLEXES Rikishi, what a beast :mark:. Benoit is carrying the fuck out of this match, and you can see the match quality shoot up a million times the second Benoit takes control. Also, Benoit sold like a fucking boss for Kishi in this match. Match is OK event though its only given like 3 and a half minutes, should have been given a little more time, maybe only like 2-3 minutes because they were developing into a pretty fun match. Anyway despite the length it was a pretty good sprint of a match( :lmao at the thought of Rikishi sprinting) but it deserved more time. Also the ending suck having Benoit eliminated from the tourney by losing by DQ, would rather see Benoit win of course but whatever, match is still pretty fun. ***

CAL SCALE: 0.5 

Match #2: Val Venis vs Eddie Gurrero *

Match here should be OK…although I never know what to expect from Eddie in 2000-2001, thank fuck that man came back because he had no charisma at all in his first run and its painful to watch him in all these bad matches. Honestly never thought much of Val as a worker but iirc his cage match with Kishi at Fully loaded is pretty good, though I remember thinking it was a tad overrated. Anyways this match was pretty good and I'm glad they got some time to work unlike the opener where here they got close to 10 minutes I think. Eddie and Val worked pretty well and it was above average fare for them. Val wins and the WWF is 0 for 2 regarding booking decisions for this tournament, an eventual Eddie vs Benoit match but oh well. For sure better than the opener just because it was given a lot more time to develop while the opener was given basically none. ***3/4 

CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #3: Crash Holly vs Bull Buchanon *

Wow, I’m so tempted to skip this but since people were flipping shit over cutting corners I think I’ll save my one NO for a match that truly deserves it. This should be kept pretty short too. Apparently Crash is the underdog here AKA he sucks and shoudn’t be here in the first place :lmao. Bull sucks ass too, so its SHITTY VS SHITTY, WHO IS MORE SHITTY? Crash's selling is GOAT here :lmao. I doubt it is enough to save this though, it would tahe pretty much a miracle for this to be a match that gets a better rating than *** :lmao. JR talks about how we are available in the UK and then explains all of the countries in the UK, THANKS MAN I DIDN'T KNOW THAT ENGLAND AND IRELAND WERE IN THE UK fpalm. Boring chants carry throughout and I agree pretty much except for Crash selling. Match sucks for the most part and the crowd popped for the Crash win which was :mark:. This was short and it wasn't horrible but it was still pretty boring.* *

CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #4: Kurt Angle vs Chris Jericho *

With Eddie and Benoit gone these two are basically the only credible people left in this tournament as I doubt anyone really thought that Rikishi and Crash were seriously contenders for KOTR, maybe Rikishi, but certainly not Crash :lmao. Anyways this should be pretty fun. Teddy Long is the referee here :lmao what ever happened to him? Needs to become the racist manager again, that was GOAT :lmao. This was really good and for sure MOTN, just a fun match all the way through and I thought it was paced extremely well and they had some fucking great spots that transitioned really well and then they had some great portions of the match outside of the ring as well. Match overall is just 10 minutes of fun and Steph flipping shit at the end of the match is hilarious too :lol. But yeah this was a FUN match that should be watched by anyone looking for good Angle or Jericho gems. ****1/2

CAL SCALE: 3 

Ivory sucking up to Mick at WWF New York :lmao

Match #5: Edge & Christian Vs 2 Cool Vs T&A Vs the Hardy Boys*

This should be pretty fun because all 4 of these teams were GOAT in 2000, for sure the best year for every one of these teams. Match here is loads of fun and is given a good amount of time to devolep into a good match. It did suck that T&A got eliminated so early but they were the second weakest team in the match and for since too cool was massively over so it wouldn’t make too much sense to have them eliminated first. This match just flowed well, there wasn’t a lot of points in the match that I seemed bored and there wasn’t a lot of rest holds at all, it was just a good match that stayed interesting due to eliminations throughout the match and the fact that different teams were in the match at all times, making the match constantly different. The points in the match with The Hardys and E&C were for sure the best, love those two teams chemistry. *** 

*CAL SCALE: 2 

Match #6: Rikishi vs Val Venis* 

I said earlier that I think the cage match at FL is kind of overrated but its still probably the best Val Venis match of all time, though I haven’t seen a ton from him, so maybe he has a classic out there I’m missing out on. Anyways, this should be pretty fun and hopefully this is pretty short because these two for sure work better in short sprints than 30 minute epics :lol. This was OK, a little better than the opener and it only gets about a minute more, was expecting a little less rest periods since they were given so much time you would assume they would go all out, they did fine but I just think they could have paced the match a little bit faster given that it wouldn’t of hurt them as much as it would if the match was going even 5 minutes. But this did have a good amount of positives, I liked Rikishi in this match a lot and I thought the parts of the match where he was in control were really good and overall it was a great prelude to the famous cage match. ***1/2 

CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #7: Crash Holly vs Kurt Angle 
*
This was OK, especially since it was probably shorter or at least just as short as the last match. Crash really sold well in this match, just as he did against Buchanon in the first match it was fun seeing him sell for Angle’s bumps because of his selling. This was more or less a squash with some points of Crash almost winning which were good for comedic effect. Match overall was OK for the time they were given. **1/2 

CAL SCALE: 0.5 

Match #8: Gerald Brisco vs Pat Patterson evening gown match

:lmao NO 

CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #9: The Dudley Boys Vs X-Pac, Road Dogg & Tori*

This is a “Dumpster tables match” apparently, I honestly have no idea what that means as I cannot imagine people will be going through dumpsters right? Anyways these matches are fun but seeing a tables match every ppv is getting a little tired, at least Bubba getting wood and slamming bitches through tables :mark:. So apparently for DX to win, they have to put both Dudley’s in the Dumpster and close the lids. For The Dudley Boys to win they got to drive all 3 members of DX, Tori included, through a table, lets just make this more confusing for ffs :lol. Match itself is ok not really good, but it has some really fun moments throughout. The Dudleys being perverts and shit is still hilarious no matter how many times it happens. Devon doing a headbutt onto Tori’s crotch and then KEEPING HIS HEAD IN THE CROTCH is so amazing :lmao. Bubba gets some WOOD and puts Tori through a table, that’s all I really cared about tbh . ***1/2 

CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #10: Kurt Angle vs Rikishi 
*
For fucks sake how many more matches are on this card fpalm. One more after this? OK I can deal with that since it has Rock, HHH, Taker, and SHANE in it plus Kane and Vince, so it should be awesome. This however could be good or bad, should have cut quarters from the ppv so we could have more time on the semis that produced some fun matches. This was pretty good and better than Angles match with crash but probably not as good as the great match with Jericho earlier. Still, surprised this wasn’t given at least 10 minutes being the KOTR final and all, maybe because both guys were exhausted after this being their third match and then they don’t get too gassed and the ME gets plenty of time, looks like everyone wins. ***3/4 

CAL SCALE: 1

Match #11: The Undertaker, Kane, and the Rock vs HHH, Shane, and Vince McMahon *

:mark: for Vince wrestling and for everyone else in this match, this should be awesome. GOAT year for 3 people in this match Rock, HHH, and Shane. Match is fun and hectic just as expected, Vince and Shane take some fun bumps and sell well while everyone else in the match did really well to keep the match well paced. Overall just a really fun tag match, not too much to say about it other than it was a fun main event that ended a pretty meh show overall. Would not say it is MOTN as I think that honor has to go to the Jericho/Angle match that was beyond awesome, but this was a good #2 MOTN. ****1/4 

CAL SCALE: 2 

FINAL CAL SCALE: 11

Current 2000 ppv rankings 

1: Judgment day (20)
2: The Royal Rumble (17)
3: WrestleMania 2000(13)
4: King of the ring(11) 
5: Insurrextion (8.5)
6: Armageddon(4)
*​


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Just watched Bash At The Beach 98 for the first time fpalm

Man is this show bland/boring for the most part, the MOTN was obviously Juvi/Kidman.

That main event was so boring though! :|


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

How's my Network treating you?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> How's my Network treating you?


Excellent! just like yourself 

Thanks for letting use the network man  <3<3<3<3


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You're very welcome


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

What have you been watching on there?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

*Cactus Jack vs. Ricky Steamboat (WCW 1992/2/22? (fucking dates, man))*

_First time ever seeing the match. This rocked. Six minutes of pure brawling, and it rocked. Jack caught Steamboat off guard and just kept toying with him for the next few minutes. Then of course, Steamer's comeback writes itself, and it's great. Love the ending. I just don't know the correct date of the match, there's no this date in databases._

***1/2


*Cactus Jack vs. Sting (WCW 1991/11/23? (fucking dates, man))* 

_Oh yeah, honestly, this match gets better and better every time. Jack's control segments are just SO GOOD. Sting's babyfacae swag is SO GOOD. This brawl was SO GOOD._

****1/4


*Cactus Jack vs. Sting (WCW Beach Blast 1992)* 

_Jack is a BUMPING MACHINE. Sting is a BUMPING MACHINE. Wonderful character work. Brutal spots. Beautiful ending. Cult classic match._

****1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Nice to see some love for their 'Submit or Surrender' match. (Y)

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Didn't that get put on a DVD set - Foley's latest?

Oh, and I watched the King of the Road match about an hour ago. I'll just leave this here to simmer. Not the first time either...


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

It's pretty damn great. Do you know if that date is correct?



SMITTY said:


> I haven't seen anything from la parka, someone tell me what to watch from them :mark:


Watch EVERYTHING.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, on the 'For All Mankind dvd'. It's on my DM channel if anyone needs it too.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sweet. Why don't I own the Foley set to begin w/? Bah. In due time. Goldberg's too. Not the Greatest WCW PPVs set b/c it's a pathetic listing. Half are repeats. Good grief, WWE. More than the same 25 matches happened within this company.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> It's pretty damn great. Do you know if that date is correct?


If it's the 'Submit or Surrender' match from Power Hour, I have that as 19.11.1991.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> If it's the 'Submit or Surrender' match from Power Hour, I have that as 19.11.1991.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App



That match makes better use out of a plastic trash can than any I've ever seen. Beach Blast gets all the props, and rightfully so as it's a certified classic, but that Power Hour match was really, REALLY good too.

One of my other favorite BORK LASER shows of strength: whenever he would do that multiple gut buster type move to dudes. He would just cradle a guy in his arms, and repeatedly drop them on his knee, pick them up again, drop them on his knee, then just toss them to the side. The one in particular that stands out is when he did it to Tommy Dreamer. Dreamer was easily 260-280lbs, and Brock was just tossing him around like a child. Dreamer said in an interview on the Brock HCTP set that he's never felt so helpless as when Brock was just man handling him in the ring.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Would love to see the full promo. Wonder why Taker was in full wrestling gear, did he have another 'dark match'?

I do need to get back to my Brock project at some point.  I'd like to see his heel turn again in '03.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Gonna check out that bad boy tomorrow. Plus, Show vs Titus O'Neil happened and I want to see big dude hit each other. Also, another Rhodes Bros vs Real Americans match. Which pleases me on the standpoint only that Goldust isn't injured after the sandbagging from Fandango the night before.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Mr. Michael Francis Foley is on JR's Podcast for this week. Should be awesome.

http://www.podcastone.com/The-Ross-Report


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Some classic stories better be shared.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Man, Taker looks (and sounds) extra demonic this year. Taker in Brooklyn :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

All this 'Taker broken down' shit in some places, on Main Event I thought he looked rather fucking grand tbh.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Was I the only fan dissapointed with the Sheamus/Titus match from RAW? They had one hell of a match last year, and this one was plain boring. **

Bryan/Randy was good, not awesome but good enough ***1/4.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Found the full Taker/Heyman promo from Main Event:






Stream is shitty though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Love how they kept hyping up UNDERTAKER for Main Event and... he showed up with like 3 minutes left of the broadcast . Need to go back and watch Goldust/Cody Vs Real Americans. On paper that always looks awesome, but I downloaded the show and skipped through everything just to see Undertaker. It was like 3am when I got it though .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> Just watched Bash At The Beach 98 for the first time fpalm
> 
> Man is this show bland/boring for the most part, the MOTN was obviously Juvi/Kidman.
> 
> That main event was so boring though! :|


I recall loving Juvi/Kidman and enjoying Raven/Saturn, Chavo/Eddie, and Rey/Jericho more than others, but the rest of the show was terrible. Wild Stevie Ray appearances, Konnan doing nothing, boring main event, and one of the worst world title matches I've seen. I need to get back to watching WCW 1998. Your brother and I used to watch the same shows at nearly the same time, which led to discussions of fun WCW midcard matches. Too bad Thunder isn't uploaded anywhere.

Did anyone catch that really stupid comment in this forum about how that Eminem song that was used for the Wyatt/Cena promo on RAW was one of the few good rap songs today? God damn, a more correct statement would have been that Mitsuharu Misawa sucked.


----------



## Pharmakon (Jan 20, 2014)

Anyone else went to yesterday's SmackDown Event at Houston


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Big Show/ADR LMS is phenomenal. ****1/2. Del Rio's second best performance ever after Payback.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Which one?

Wait, doesn't matter, I think they both suck .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Which one?
> 
> Wait, doesn't matter, I think they both suck .



The one I saw was from Smackdown, Show gets buried under a table. Thought it was pretty effing good, I think I gave it ***3/4


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Which one?
> 
> Wait, doesn't matter, I think they both suck .


SD. The RR one is forgettable (**1/2). EC is really good too.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

How Show and Del Rio could have two matches with the exact same stipulation just weeks apart from one another yet be polar opposites in terms of quality is beyond me. The Smackdown match is phenomenal and the Rumble match blows on a ridiculous level.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I kinda liked the Royal Rumble LMS match :side:. Not horrible, but Smackdown match was infinitely better. Also a fan of their EC match minus that botch. Good feud.

Has anyone found a website that streams shows from 2005? Or PPVs from 2008?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Has anyone found a website that streams shows from 2005? Or PPVs from 2008?


http://www.wwe.com/wwenetwork 8*D


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

So whose down to watch the 6 man tag from the 97 Royal Rumble 8*D


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Lucha 6-man?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well I totally would but uhhh... I have to... wash my... something...


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> The Lucha 6-man?


Yes  please tell me you have seen this Greg?



> Well I totally would but uhhh... I have to... wash my... something...


But your missing out on a 5 star classic! :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You appear to have missed out the MINUS in front of the "5 star classic" part :side:.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Of course I've seen it. Probably not since 1997, but I ordered that PPV live and all I remember is HEAVY METAL.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Of course I've seen it. Probably not since 1997, but I ordered that PPV live and all I remember is HEAVY METAL.



Really? So did I! I distinctly remember rooting for Psycho Sid to beat Shawn, and I was also pissed when my boy Bret got screwed, actually irate would be a better word to describe it. I didn't start getting behind Austin until the Summer of 1997, specifically in the lead up to the Owen Hart match (always loved Bret and hated Owen as a kid). Then again I was only 10-11 years old, and Bret was still a super hero to me.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I was one year old when that PPV happened (or, as parents like to say, 17 months) 

The first PPV my parents ordered for me was WrestleMania 2000 :lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Really? So did I! I distinctly remember rooting for Psycho Sid to beat Shawn, and I was also pissed when my boy Bret got screwed, actually irate would be a better word to describe it. I didn't start getting behind Austin until the Summer of 1997, specifically in the lead up to the Owen Hart match (always loved Bret and hated Owen as a kid). Then again I was only 10-11 years old, and Bret was still a super hero to me.


I was rooting for Sid as well but knew he wouldn't win.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Of course I've seen it. Probably not since 1997, but I ordered that PPV live and all I remember is HEAVY METAL.


That match gives quite the chuckle :lol

Me and Cody watched SuperBrawl 95 last night and I'm glad to report that Roma/Wright & Blacktop Bully/Dustin Rhodes are top candidates for DUD of the year so far.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I remember buying RR 1997 on *VHS* in like 2001. Why I picked that over everything else I'll never know. Probably because I loved RR matches, Undertaker Vs Vader was on the show and SID was WWF Champion .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Only just realised Flair/Savage had a match in Japan. I'll have to get on that soon, also want to see a couple of their WCW matches. 

Nothing will top WMVIII though. :mark:

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

whats a VHS?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Hitman said:


> Only just realised* Flair/Savage had a match in Japan.* I'll have to get on that soon, also want to see a couple of their WCW matches.
> 
> Nothing will top WMVIII though. :mark:
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


:mark: Please find that Zep

Any of the bryan/cesaro matches from ROH any good ? Kinda a stupid question judging by the workers but you never know


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

7/16/96 Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage

That the date for the Japan match?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SKINS said:


> :mark: Please find that Zep
> 
> Any of the bryan/cesaro matches from ROH any good ? Kinda a stupid question judging by the workers but you never know


I think you just answered your question there at the end buddy


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> 7/16/96 Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage
> 
> That the date for the Japan match?


Yeah that's it Cal. It's on the Flair In Japan comp you also have, but I can't seem to extract it. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> 7/16/96 Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage
> 
> That the date for the Japan match?


That's what it says on cagematch.com, I cant find the match anywhere, I found the sting/muta v.s road warriors tag from that card



William Murderface said:


> I think you just answered your question there at the end buddy


lol I thought soo


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye that's where I got the date from haha. I'll give it a go and see if I can get it upload for anyone who wants it. Though I wouldn't expect much greatness from it, their best match (WM) wasn't even that great, and I don't think they did much good together since.

Did Savage have ANY good matches in WCW? I don't like the DDP matches so those are out... is there anything else?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Aye that's where I got the date from haha. I'll give it a go and see if I can get it upload for anyone who wants it. Though I wouldn't expect much greatness from it, their best match (WM) wasn't even that great, and I don't think they did much good together since.
> 
> Did Savage have ANY good matches in WCW? I don't like the DDP matches so those are out... is there anything else?


The Zodiac 8*D


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cal coming in clutch :mark:, yea I dont think much of the mania match either, its ok


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I did ask the other day re: any good Savage wcw matches, bar the Flair/DDP ones. I can't think of any myself. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

SKINS there's a Danielson/Claudio match on YT. I don't know which but I've seen it down the sidebar a few times.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> I did ask the other day re: any good Savage wcw matches, bar the Flair/DDP ones. I can't think of any myself.


x199jgz

:troll

I haven't seen it so I can't tell but I'll post it just for the hell of it. Either it's actually good or anyone who has seen it will take a dump on it which is always entertaining to read.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't upload it. DVD shrink only sees the first 3 matches on the disc (it's match 4). DVD Magic crashed my PC and gave me a BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH. DVD Fab would let me rip it, but only thought it was 3 minutes long. Tried recording the screen as I played it, but 5 minutes in the DVD just stops.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Slam City Episode #1: Auto-Tude Adjustment gets **** 1/2

:troll


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Flux said:


> SKINS there's a Danielson/Claudio match on YT. I don't know which but I've seen it down the sidebar a few times.


There is this one, in case skins wants to check it out, uploaded by ROH itself, so should be in good quality (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Can't upload it. DVD shrink only sees the first 3 matches on the disc (it's match 4).


Exact same thing happened to me.  Srange as the files are there and you can select the match from the menu when you play the DVD. Sorry Skins 

Have heard Bret/Savage was shit in WCW. Best stick to their 1987? match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

There is a Danielsen / Claudio match from IWA in 2005 too. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Hitman said:


> Exact same thing happened to me.  Srange as the files are there and you can select the match from the menu when you play the DVD. Sorry Skins
> 
> Have heard Bret/Savage was shit in WCW. Best stick to their 1987? match.




and yea FLUX and smitty I'll check that out, I found that last night and that lead me to asking. Yea Zep I think the best Hart/Savage is the 87 one, I remember loving it


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I just watched The Undertaker's Main Event segment. God, The Undertaker is so cool. He looked extra demonic choking the hell out of Paul Heyman and it was awesome. Heyman was great as well putting over the Streak and saying how important the Streak really is, such as master on the mic. I'm really enjoying the build and I'm certainly looking forward to the Mania match. It should be sweet. (Y)


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Too bad Brock is nowhere to be found.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Too bad Brock is nowhere to be found.


At least he's on for the next two weeks into Mania. As I said before, sometimes less is more, i'm sure we'll get two good face offs now. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> Would love to see the full promo. Wonder why Taker was in full wrestling gear, did he have another 'dark match'?
> 
> I do need to get back to my Brock project at some point.  I'd like to see his heel turn again in '03.


Undertaker having a segment on Main Event. :ti They must really want to get more people to watch that waste of time show.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He looks creepy as fuck now.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Aye that's where I got the date from haha. I'll give it a go and see if I can get it upload for anyone who wants it. Though I wouldn't expect much greatness from it, their best match (WM) wasn't even that great, and I don't think they did much good together since.
> 
> Did Savage have ANY good matches in WCW? I don't like the DDP matches so those are out... is there anything else?





SKINS said:


> Cal coming in clutch :mark:, yea I dont think much of the mania match either, its ok


You people are out of your ever loving minds. I never realized I would need to defend the GREATNESS that is Savage/Flair WM 8, in THIS thread of all places, but geeze, you've really let me down. Skins you especially, Naitch is your guy, I'd put that match in Flairs top 10 TV/PPV bouts for his CAREER. 

1. Vs Steamboat 2/3 Falls COTC 1989
2. Vs Windham BotB 1986
3. Vs Steamboat WrestleWar 1989
4. Vs Steamboat Chi Town Rumble 1989
5. Vs Funk Great American Bash 1989
6. Vs Funk COTC I Quit 1989
7. Vs Big Van Vader Starrcade 1993
8. Vs Savage WM 8 1992
9. Vs Wahoo McDaniel 2/3 Falls BotB 1985
10. Vs Triple H Cage match Taboo Tuesday 2005

Flair in 1989 having 5 of his 6 best matches = :mark:

GOAT year

**I said TV/PPV bouts because Flair has had a tremendous amount of amazing matches at house shows


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

SKINS said:


> :mark: Please find that Zep
> 
> Any of the bryan/cesaro matches from ROH any good ? Kinda a stupid question judging by the workers but you never know


You should watch Tyler Black (Seth Rollins) vs. Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli (Cesaro) - (ROH World Title Elimination Match)...Death Before Dishonor VI 8/2/08.

....if you can find it. So much fun goodness in that match.





Choke2Death said:


> x199jgz
> 
> :troll
> 
> I haven't seen it so I can't tell but I'll post it just for the hell of it. Either it's actually good or anyone who has seen it will take a dump on it which is always entertaining to read.


Haven't seen that, but the good match between them is at Saturday Night Main Event 11/28/87.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> You should watch Tyler Black (Seth Rollins) vs. Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli (Cesaro) - (ROH World Title Elimination Match)...Death Before Dishonor VI 8/2/08.
> 
> ....if you can find it. So much fun goodness in that match.


Okay, that sounds GOAT. Must watch immediately (aka whenever I remember to actually do it).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, just don't get the GREATNESS love for Flair/Savage. Match is good and nothing more imo. Felt the structure of the match was all over the place and a big mess at times. Match looks totally out of place to me in a top 10 Flair matches list, especially when you miss out the 1987 WWW match with Windham .

At least you didn't stick any Sting matches in there .

Working on this top 10 STREAK opponents thingy atm... got 5 written out as "honourable mentions/people you might think I'd pick but here's why I didn't...", with 2 more I wanna add... and then my actual list of opponents is up to a total of 8 and I'm stumped .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Still furious we don't have a proper write-up of Zayn/Cesaro IV from WOOLCOCK.

Looking forward to reading Cal's list.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Also, FAIL rep comment .










WC, get your welsh cock out of that sheep and watch Zayn/Cesaro IV NOW DAMMIT!!!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He said he got about 10 mins in then got distracted, so he wants to start over :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Even my brother, who doesn't WATCH WRESTLING watched the match (and fucking loved it). FOR SHAME, WELSHY.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Okay, that sounds GOAT. Must watch immediately (aka whenever I remember to actually do it).


lol, it is GOAT. Nigel was such a great dick; Cesaro was great at going nuts + great back and forth with Bryan; Seth with that star-making, babyface, performance. Just good times. The match just totally flew right by.

Though I still don't understand why they had to tag in in the beginning and then didn't after that, but whatever.




DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Also, FAIL rep comment


:lmao I hate when I do that.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> He looks creepy as fuck now.


Yep.

As for the Mania card right now, I'm looking forward to Brock/Taker, will be match of the night I reckon. Looking forward to Cena/Wyatt too, although I'll hate it if Cena goes over, it will be a BIG deal if Bray somehow wins. I'm convinced Bryan/HHH will be good, from a atmosphere standpoint it will be enjoyable, and going against Bryan could result in Triple H's best match in years. And against Bryan the match will likely be more fast paced, which would be a change of pace from Triple H's slow paced bouts against Lesnar and Undertaker. Bryan/HHH with the stipulation of who wins gets added to the WWE Title match makes the WWE Title match more interesting now. And I hope the battle royal will be on the main show, that would be a fun opener. Have a guy like Rusev win it and it would do a lot for him and would get him noticed right from the get go. So overall the card is looking pretty good so far imo. (Y)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> I was one year old when that PPV happened (or, as parents like to say, 17 months)
> 
> The first PPV my parents ordered for me was WrestleMania 2000 :lol


You think that's bad? Guess what the first PPV I showed my five year old bro was.




Night of Champions 2013 :lmao

He didn't really care for anything except for the main event. Loved that Bryan won, but got really pissed off after the title got vacated the next night. As a result, he stopped watching wrestling until I showed him another PPV. Guess what that next PPV was:



Royal Rumble 2014 :lmao


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

RR14 was the first PPV I ordered in college, so you could imagine the look I had on my face as I sat with all my friends for Mysterio coming out as the 30th entrant. :side: 

What a waste of money that was.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

@ Nostalgia - I basically agree with everything you just said (aside from Rusev winning ). I'm hopeful for Brock/Taker, and I think it could almost end up being the same layout as Cena/Lesnar, with Lesnar completely dominating most of the match - basically, a more lopsided version of Taker surviving against Trips at WM27. That's likely the direction they'll take it. They might have Taker come out firing, but Lesnar's power immediately subduing Taker and then focus on Lesnar dishing out some punishment to give the threat of the streak ending some credibility. I'm a little concerned they may have a similar structure for Bryan/HHH. I hope you're right in that it will be more fast-paced relative to HHH's last few matches (and I think it will definitely pick up with Bryan's babyface comeback), but I hope HHH doesn't control the entire match up until the comeback. I'd like it more if it was in line with HHH/Cena from WM22, with HHH "schooling" Bryan by heeling it up to start, then Bryan's wrestling prowess allowing him to gain the upper hand, and HHH resorting to FLAIR-like tactics.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Up to 9 on my Streak opponents list. Fuck knows how I forgot that guy :lmao. Still stuck for a 10th though. Could easily put on honourable mention in at #10 but I'm sure if I keep thinking I can come up with something better.

Not sure what to expect from HHH/Bryan at WM. I'm leaning towards HHH gaining control and working a body part for a stupidly boring amount of time (WWE.com reported that Bryan suffered a shoulder injury on Raw, right?). I hope they don't go that way because HHH kinda absolutely blows at that .


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> @ Nostalgia - I basically agree with everything you just said (aside from Rusev winning ). I'm hopeful for Brock/Taker, and I think it could almost end up being the same layout as Cena/Lesnar, with Lesnar completely dominating most of the match - basically, a more lopsided version of Taker surviving against Trips at WM27. That's likely the direction they'll take it. They might have Taker come out firing, but Lesnar's power immediately subduing Taker and then focus on Lesnar dishing out some punishment to give the threat of the streak ending some credibility. I'm a little concerned they may have a similar structure for Bryan/HHH. I hope you're right in that it will be more fast-paced relative to HHH's last few matches (and I think it will definitely pick up with Bryan's babyface comeback), but I hope HHH doesn't control the entire match up until the comeback. I'd like it more if it was in line with HHH/Cena from WM22, with HHH "schooling" Bryan by heeling it up to start, then Bryan's wrestling prowess allowing him to gain the upper hand, and HHH resorting to FLAIR-like tactics.


Well they've got guys like Christian and Ziggler in the battle royal who I like a lot more than Rusev, but Rusev would benefit the most from the win because he's new and needs to be established and they've been hyping him with promos for weeks now on RAW and Smackdown. It would be really cool to see a guy like Ziggler win though, who's been buried for a a while and only recently has started to get some wins again, and a WrestleMania moment and win for Ziggler is what he really needs, however I don't see Ziggler winning it sadly :sad: so I'm going to go with a more realistic option.

Brock should put the biggest beating on Taker and really make him look like the most dangerous threat to the streak to date. With Lesnar obviously losing they should make him look almost unstoppable in the match and gives us some convincing streak-ending nearfalls, which was lacking in the Taker/Punk match last year.

One thing I hope they don't do is put on three big matches in a row like they did last year, it resulted in the crowd being dead for HHH/Lesnar at WM29. They need to structure the card better this year and have a long match, then a shorter one, long match, then a shorter one, so it doesn't totally tire out the crowd.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Randal for #1 :mark: :mark: rton2

With the news that the pre-show is gonna be 2 hours, I'm almost certain the battle royal will end up on it. I'm just confused as to how WWE is gonna fill up the event itself considering the lack of announced matches and the fact that there are (I believe) 2 RAWs until Mania.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Open with Bryan/HHH. Bryan wins and main events. Kinda like Owen/Bret and Yoko/Bret from WM X. Bryan gets time to rest between matches because lets face it, he's GOT to carry Orton and Batista otherwise the match will suck. Gets that big match done early allowing them to spread the rest of the card out more evenly rather than bunching shit together.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed w/Cal here. If Hunter curtain jerks AND puts Bryan over maybe everyone will stop shitting on him for burying people. :side:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

An A+ player like :hunter won't wanna curtain jerk :side:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HE'S A CHANGED MAN~! :HHH


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Open with Bryan/HHH. Bryan wins and main events. Kinda like Owen/Bret and Yoko/Bret from WM X. Bryan gets time to rest between matches because lets face it, he's GOT to carry Orton and Batista otherwise the match will suck. Gets that big match done early allowing them to spread the rest of the card out more evenly rather than bunching shit together.


That's actually a good idea, due to the card having four big matches and the fact they have to space them out well. Would also make the fans happy right from the get go with a Bryan win and being inserted into the title match later, but I can't see a :HHH2 match opening the show. :lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It would REALLY be saying something if HHH agreed to be on the pre-show for the sake of what's BEST FOR BUSINESS (giving Bryan ample rest). :side::hb


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Orrrr.....HHH could graciously help fill out the two hour pre-show by cutting a ONE-HOUR PROMO :hhh2


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

PGSucks said:


> Orrrr.....HHH could graciously help fill out the two hour pre-show by cutting a ONE-HOUR PROMO :hhh2



I'd rather have Mick Foley come out and do his Hunter impression from when he was commissioner for an hour :lmao

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qz6VKjt-REU

Skip to 8:50

"I get to make damn sure that nobodyyyyyuhhhh has to listennnnuhhhhhh to a borinnnguhhhh 20 minuteuhhhh Triple Huuuuuuhhh promo, AGAIN" :lmao


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I don't know if I'm being overly optimistic, but I think the match quality for Mania this year cold be great.

*Andre the Giant memorial battle royal* - Could be a fun affair
*HHH/Bryan* - Could be awesome considering the stipulation. The moment HHH hits the Pedigree is going to be nuts.
*Wyatt/Cena* - Has potential to be good
*Taker/Lesnar* - Could be a fucking war. Might be as great as their 2002 HIAC match.
*Orton/Batista/Bryan or HHH* - Could be really fun as I think the outcome is going to be unpredictable (Will Bryan finally get his moment, will Orton retain, will Batista win and thecrowd's gonna boo like a motherfucker, will Hunter reign as both COO and World Champion?)

Also for matches I think is going to happen:
*
Swagger/Cesaro* - Could be a great wrestling clinic
*Anything with The Shield*


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Based on the SD spoilers, I'm not so sure about The Shield (even though I have faith in them putting on a great match under almost any circumstance).



Spoiler: spoiler alert and stuff



It's looking like Kane and the New Age Outlaws vs. The Shield, which would make me contemplate suicide.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> If Hunter curtain jerks


HHH curtain jerking at Mania?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

^ that gif. :ti



PGSucks said:


> Based on the SD spoilers, I'm not so sure about The Shield (even though I have faith in them putting on a great match under almost any circumstance).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like they're holding off on The Shield's breakup then. Which is good + give all the members of The Shield another WrestleMania win, as opposed to a triple threat where only Reigns would win. That proposed match isn't that BAD, what else are The Shield going to? Yeah it wouldn't be close to any of The Shield's other matches in terms of match quality, but it still could be decent, and with the rest of potential good matches on the card The Shield wont steal the show anyway.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm all for prolonging The Shield as a unit, but the match that was hinted at on SD is unappealing to me because the other three guys are all dreadful in the ring at this point.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Starting No Mercy 2002. Watching the whole show in anticipation of Brock/Taker :mark:

What are some good 2003 PPVs to watch? Haven't seen so much from that year.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

SS,Vengeance, NM,mania,the rumble, and SVS are it for good ppvs in 2003


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Wrestlemania XIX is the first that comes to mind.

I also remember Royal Rumble and No Way Out being good, but I haven't watched any 2003 PPVs in years.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The non-Raw PPVs are mostly good for 2003. Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania XIX, Backlash, Vengeance, SummerSlam, No Mercy, Survivor Series.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I hope they'll just add Ambrose/Rollins to the Tag Title match (hopefully a Ladder match or something) and let Reigns go over someone in a singles match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Good 03 PPV's? Oh boy .

WM, SS and NM are all pretty great. Vengeance (assuming it holds up for me) is great. Everything else is pretty much TRASH (unless I'm forgetting what the hell was good from SVS aside from the Raw elimination tag).


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Is No Mercy the one with the supposedly amazing tag title match? I think that's what I was fishing for. I have seen Mania, and have little interest in the Raw PPVs. Dem WOAT main events. Watched Survivor Series a while back, and yeah, the tag match is great.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye NM 02 is the one of the Bangle/Redge tag match... but it's not that good .

NM 03 is worlds ahead of NM 02 aside from NM 02's main event which is :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No Mercy 2002 is a pretty lame PPV. Say, hit or miss for a suited analogy. Jericho/Christian vs Goldust/Booker, Tajiri vs Noble, & Taker vs Lesnar. Those hit; the rest missed.

2003 rules, pardon myself not being fond of the main event.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Remind me why you didn't like the 2/3 Falls rematch of Bangle/Redge.

Going back to watching 2000. In all honesty, this year so far hasn't been very impressive, and Wrestlemania season is pretty shitty. All these dumb and meaningless feuds, long droning Triple H promos every night, Mae Young, Rock's mic work dropping in quality, and garbage Smackdown episodes. I guess there is no such thing as a 10/10 year for a company. Maybe ROH in 2005. Or AJPW in the mid-90s. But a 10/10 year is something that WWE and WCW never had.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

People hate that No Mercy tag match now??? Does this thread just pick highly praised matches every few months and shit on them? I guess next up is the Powertrip vs Chris' tag?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm confident that Angle/Taker is next on that list of praised matches that will get hate. Michaels/Angle didn't survive, but maybe if Cal works hard enough, he can prevent the same from happening to Angle/Taker.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't think I've liked that No Mercy tag in like 4 years.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I guess I'm just behind the times.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Remind me why you didn't like the 2/3 Falls rematch of Bangle/Redge.
> 
> Going back to watching 2000. In all honesty, this year so far hasn't been very impressive, and Wrestlemania season is pretty shitty. All these dumb and meaningless feuds, long droning Triple H promos every night, Mae Young, Rock's mic work dropping in quality, and garbage Smackdown episodes. I guess there is no such thing as a 10/10 year for a company. Maybe ROH in 2005. Or AJPW in the mid-90s. But a 10/10 year is something that WWE and WCW never had.


Blugh. I'd have to spool through one of the other threads to find the post. You can feel free to go search for it if you like.

I can't really think of too much that is wrong w/WWF in 2001. I liked the Invasion stuff. Only thing I always poke holes at is how Austin went back to being a babyface immediately following Survivor Series. Other than that, cool beans 99% of the time.

And ROH in 2005. Yeah, basically perfect. I think 2006 might even be better, but a few of those shows at the end did tend to coast until Final Battle. That's the common scuttlebutt. Damn AJPW and it's heavyweight glory. NJPW gets lost in the shuffle during the 90's. IT WAS STILL GREAT TOO. Then the MMA fix came..._(well, the wrestling parts were still really good...)_



The Lady Killer said:


> People hate that No Mercy tag match now??? Does this thread just pick highly praised matches every few months and shit on them? I guess next up is the Powertrip vs Chris' tag?


Nah. That's a great match. I never cared for the No Mercy tag. It's mediocre at best. The way it was worked is a total turn off. Much the same of how I never cared for Benoit vs Angle Rumble '03 or Angle vs Michaels _(from WM, but all their matches SUCK)_

It's not common for a bunch to over extend on Angle's work. It's the same w/Indie & Puro geeks who do it w/Davey Richards or KENTA. All the same pool.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KENTA/Danielson though...


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

The Lady Killer said:


> I guess I'm just behind the times.


Heh, you're not alone man. I remember when a great deal of members here LOVED the 3 stages of hell match between Hunter and Austin years ago. Some was calling it one of the best matches they've ever seen. But now? I see a lot more people here saying it's such a disappointing match and/or it's shit.

This is coming from someone who wasn't a big fan of the match to begin with. I guess opinions can change here quick when someone is not around. 8*D


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> KENTA/Danielson though...


Not hard to have a good match when you're working with arguably the greatest in-ring worker of all-time.

Crash Holly vs. The Headbangers (3/16/2000): ********

Yup, this is the "ballpit" match. CRASH! On this same episode of Smackdown, Steve Blackman beats the crap out of an alien, Bob Backlund chokes out a security guard, and Dean Malenko attempts to do the worm :lmao


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

So guys, I started to get back into watching wrestling after a few months of it losing my interest.

I kind of want to watch Bill Goldberg stuff right now. Miss that guy as I loved to see him in the ring smashing people growing up. Any suggestions on where to start from (good matches)?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Have you seen Cesaro/Zayn or Shield/Wyatts from this year?

Only Goldberg matches I like are the DDP ones and a La Parka squash, so I can't help you there. But that shouldn't stop you from watching Scott Steiner squash four cruiserweights at the same time.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

I'm happy to say that I did see Shield vs. The Wyatts already. No words to say other than incredible. First time I'm hearing of this Cesaro/Zayn match though.

Hmm, I haven't seen Goldberg/DDP in such a long time. That might be fun to go back and see.

And the thought of Scott Steiner bitching out cruiserweights sounds hilarious to me for some odd reason.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I guess there is no such thing as a 10/10 year for a company.


Too bad you don't watch BJW and DDT. Every year is 10/10. 

:homer4




Odafin Tutuola said:


> What are some good 2003 PPVs to watch? Haven't seen so much from that year.


Every pay-per-view that has SCOTT STEINER on matchcard.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Well figured I should do this too, gonna start with the year 2002. Anyone know which PPVs or matches to look out for? Other than Summerslam.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Quoth the Raven said:


> Well figured I should do this too, gonna start with the year 2002. Anyone know which PPVs or matches to look out for? Other than Summerslam.


Vengeance has the awesome Angle/Taker/Rock triple threat. 

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----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> KENTA/Danielson though...


There can always be an exception. The Kurt Angle catalog is one I shudder at for the majority, but I still have an Angle match as my choice for best match in WWF/WWE history. It's a kooky circle. :hayley1

tbhayley @ the point about KENTA working w/Danielson. Everyone looks great vs him; but KENTA was right on in that contest too. Great on both ends.

---------

@QTR: lots of Brock Lesnar stuff is a blast from '02. Hardy vs Taker Ladder match is a must-see. One of the best on the whole year. Believe Rock teamed w/Edge a few times to work vs Eddie & Benoit and they're great. It's Triple H and he's VERY shit at this time, but I still enjoy the moment of Bubba Ray Dudley getting his championship shot on RAW late in the year. Wished it stuck, but Bubba has some good point in it. b/c, you know, he's actually good. Also a righteous promo before the bout too.

PPVs to check out: Survivor Series. That's about the only show from the year that wasn't a one - three match show if excluding SummerSlam. Rest is more pick and choose to see the matches worth while. Well, WM is fun. Won't snub that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, Brock in '02 is great. Vengeance match vs RVD, he also had a great little match against Bubba Ray on Raw too. Every time we mention Brock I want to go back and watch all his shit. 

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----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Yeah I remember HHH being quite bad in 2002. Had totally forgotten about Brock Lesnar, as a kid I enjoyed watching him squash the Hardys and his matches against RVD too. Will check how they hold up after all this time.

Of course, must watch his matches against Taker.

Was Survivor Series the one with the first ever Elimination Chamber? That's the only match I can remember right now, rest of the card doesn't come to mind. I'll check these out thanks (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Lady Killer said:


> I guess next up is the Powertrip vs Chris' tag?


Of course not! I've been calling that one overrated since it happened


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Quoth the Raven said:


> Was Survivor Series the one with the first ever Elimination Chamber? That's the only match I can remember right now, rest of the card doesn't come to mind. I'll check these out thanks (Y)


Yeah. Here's the rest of the card:

Bubba/Spike/Jeff Hardy vs Rico/3 Minute Warning - Tables Elimination Match
Noble vs Kidman
Trish vs Victoria - Hardcore Match
Brock vs Big Show
Los Guerreros vs Edge/Mysterio vs Benoit/Angle - Triple Threat Elimination




DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Of course not! I've been calling that one overrated since it happened


I haven't watched it in years, but science save me if I rewatch it, don't think much of it, and then have to eat my own words in my post on this page. 8*D

Never found it to be THE top match of any caliber tho. For Austin, for Benoit, for RAW, for 2001. Would that change after a rewatch too? Perhaps. Look at us apparently being so fringe b/c that's the only way it can be feasible and not b/c opinions that aren't the majority can exist. Another tard face smiley.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

5/21/01 tag is awesome and I'll always think it's awesome. Maybe it's ''overrated'' to me b/c I think it's more ''****1/4'' than ''****3/4'', but I think that's just a difference in ideas with star ratings. Like, I remember when Andy wrote like 5 million words about a WCW 92 tag, saying it was really fucking fun and awesome and all this shit and then after all of that reading and mouse-scrolling, you see he gave it three stars. Does that mean he likes it less than someone who gives it ***3/4? Not necessarily, his idea of snowflakeys is just different. So I guess I don't find the Raw 01 tag overrated. I might think it's ****1/4, but I could actually like it more than someone who gives it ****3/4. My favourite match is Rey/Eddie 6/23/05, but there could still be people in this thread that like it more than I do or think it's better than I do.

[[where was i going with this?]] Oh yeah, 5/21/01 is awesome and I'll always think it's awesome.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I like the Power Trip Tag
I like the No Mercy 2002 Tag
I like Angle/Michaels WM AND Vengeance
I like Hunter/Austin 3SoH
I even *gasp* like Benoit/Angle RR 2003
I LOVE Angle/Taker SD AND NWO

I guess that makes me a rebel in this thread :side:

I'm just not all that picky when it comes to my pro graps. If it entertains me, I like it. Now, would I consider ANY of those matches better than a match like Regal/Finlay Uncensored? No way in hell. But I can still watch them and not get my knickers in a twist about how "spotty" they are or how poor the selling is at certain times. The worst kind of wrestling to me is BORING wrestling. I'd rather watch an insane, nonsensical spotfest like Angle/Benoit Cage Match over Triple H vs Scott Steiner RR 2003.

In all seriousness, I just watched Benoit/Guerrero vs Bubba/Spike Tables match Vengeance 2002 last night. That's a pretty swell bout, had never seen it before. Anyone else like it? I swear Guerrero looks like he MUST have broken his ribs taking that Dudley Dog through a table to the outside.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I like the Power Trip Tag
> I like the No Mercy 2002 Tag
> I like Angle/Michaels WM AND Vengeance
> I like Hunter/Austin 3SoH
> ...


:usangle

Actually watched some of the GOAT :kurt (totally kidding BTW...for the most part) today. Still think his match against Cena at NM03 is stellar, and I liked Angle vs. Show at Armageddon 02 as well. This damn network has been consuming my life over spring break


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I still like the Angle/HBK matches (2 PPV ones, anyway) and doubt I'll ever hate Angle/Undertaker matches because UNDERTAKER .

Also like that tag tables match a bunch. Probs the second best tables match in WWE history (RR 00 being the best). Maybe even just third best since SVS 02 one is awesome as well. Got those 2 at the same rating (***1/2) and RR at ***3/4.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Yeah, Angle and HBK's last match (I believe) on that RAW in January 06 is pretty bad, and I can't really get into their Ironman match. Maybe it's because moves that were kicked out of at least 5 times in the first two matches are now scoring falls in a 30 minute period, which is barely longer than the length of the WM21 match. Bleh. :side:


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

I swear to god if any of you belittle the two big Angle/Taker matches I'll carve your eyes out with pointy spoons.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Power Trip Tag is dope. ****3/4 based on the fact that I can sit down and watch it whenever I want without it consuming a huge amount of my day. It's pure fun and it's totally great. Polar opposite is Austin/HHH Three Stages of Hell, which I don't particularly want to watch unless I'm in a particular mood, but is also ****3/4 because it's fucking great. Just long. *long*



Craig said:


> I swear to god if any of you belittle the two big Angle/Taker matches I'll carve your eyes out with pointy spoons.


NWO 06 is pretty great. SmackDown! isn't great, but still good. I really hate Angle sometimes, but I don't think I could bring myself to actually hate most of his big matches, with a few exceptions.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Craig said:


> I swear to god if any of you belittle the two big Angle/Taker matches I'll carve your eyes out with pointy spoons.


Have I told you I love you recently? Because I do. Lots.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I love all of the Angle/Undertaker matches, although I haven't seen the SD 2006 match in *ages*.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah I don't see what there isn't to like about Angle/Taker. I mean I'll be honest I don't think NWO 06 is AMAZING, but I even like Survivor Series 2000 which some seem to think s suck. 9/4/03 is still the best one. WWE MOTY.
-----------------

I google image searched ''pointy spoons'' (with the " around it) and these are the kinds of pictures that came up



Spoiler: pointy spoons


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ruiner87 said:


> NWO 06 is pretty great. SmackDown! isn't great, but still good.


I happen to think the SD match is great too. Taker esp is fucking awesome in it.

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----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> but I even like Survivor Series 2000


*3/4. boring. 1/4* taken off for Undertaker's dumb looking pants.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I like Angle/Michaels WM AND Vengeance


Blown away only b/c I find those to be two putrid matches. Used to like the Vengeance match back in the day _(not THAT long ago, actually)_ but I rewatched it less than a month ago and WOWOWEWOW is it horrendous. The WM match is soooo much better and that's an obnoxious piece of crap.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> In all seriousness, I just watched Benoit/Guerrero vs Bubba/Spike Tables match Vengeance 2002 last night. That's a pretty swell bout, had never seen it before. Anyone else like it? I swear Guerrero looks like he MUST have broken his ribs taking that Dudley Dog through a table to the outside.


Awful. I really dislike it. Traditionally tagging for 1/2 the match in a gimmick like that is something I can't look past. Major pet peeve. One of those matches I'll never quite "get" as to why some like it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I enjoy the Vengeance tables match, which isn't surprising. It should've been a tornado match but they still made it work.

On another note, I watched this for the hell of it because I heard it's pretty bad.



Fucking lost it @ Undertaker yelling "BUMP!". :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

On paper it sounds like the match that would leave my pants moist. In reality...it's fucking BAD.

Taker getting mad after the botched chin-breaker at the end and shouting "FUCK" still slays me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

PGSucks said:


> :usangle
> 
> Actually watched some of the GOAT :kurt (totally kidding BTW...for the most part) today. Still think his match against Cena at NM03 is stellar, and I liked Angle vs. Show at Armageddon 02 as well. This damn network has been consuming my life over spring break


The Cena match at NM 2003 is honestly one of my favorite from either guys. Their matches in 2005 were just utter garbage, but that NM match hit all he right spots.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Their No Way Out 2005 co-main event was a borefest. Straight up can put me to sleep right before I wake up and watch Big Show and JBL beat the ever loving bananas out of one another in the barbed wire steel cage. JBL was fucking fantastic, it's a shame his reign had to end in one of the worst WWE Championship matches in WWE PPV history come just one month later at Wrestlemania XXI, maybe he should have gotten a transitional reign as champ around 2006ish?

I see how HEEL COWARD TEXAS/NEW YORK BADASS (oxymorons everywhere) works against face Big Show and then I see Orton working against the same face Big Show 8 years later and I've concluded that either Big Show has fallen WAAAAAY off, or that Orton was just straight up shit in the match.

Oh well. Orton has been good in 2014 besides his awful Rumble match with Cena, probably bringing his best promo work in like 8 years too :lol.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Craig said:


> I swear to god if any of you belittle the two big Angle/Taker matches I'll carve your eyes out with pointy spoons.


:ziggler2,, we are strictly speaking of the 06 series ? Yea I never said their bad, just decent (nwo, I dont like the sd match) Ive seen the nwo match over 10x and never change on it. Cant say flair/savage was only "good" but praise this match

Yea I'd argue HBK/Bret wm12 >> Hbk/angle


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

No the big two for me are NWO 06 and the Smackdown 03 match :mark: :mark:

BARBED WIRE CAGE ENDING :mark: :mark:


I'd argue a steam bowl of turd soup > The Ironman :grant


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker/Angle:

SD 03 - ****3/4
NWO 06 - ****3/4
SD 06 - ****1/4
SVS 00 - ***1/2

FL 00 kinda sucks, then they have about 10 more TV matches from 00-02 lol. Only really remember the one with the tap out/pin finish leading into Vengeance that was pretty good but fuck knows what kind of STARS I'd lob at it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Mmmmm, don't think I've ever seen the SD 06 match, but with that rating from Cal, i'll have to. 

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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My review when I did the SD 06 project:



Spoiler: Undertaker Vs Angle



*The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - World Heavyweight Title - Smackdown March 3rd 2006*

The rematch from No Way Out. They put on one of the best matches in WWE history on that night (easily a top 20 match for the Poll), but the finish just begged for a rematch. I wish we had gotten it at WrestleMania, but they had other plans with Rey and all that shizzle, so we had to "settle" for it being on SD. All through the show they were building to this main event, showing clips of NWO, and clips of each wrestler dominating guys over the years etc, and the tale of the tape. This one has big match feel written all over it, and I can't wait to see it .

First thing I notice is how awesome the crowd is. Compared to the Attitude Era its nothing special, but by today's standards its fucking awesome. Also, The Undertaker actually gets BOOED when he reverses Angle in the corner at the start of the match and punches the fuck out of him! Angle gets booed as well when he regains control lol; the crowd are extremely split for this one.

Lots of nice callbacks to their NWO match, with Angle going straight for the same leg and knee of The Undertaker that he worked on at the PPV, and Undertaker going back after the neck. One spot in particular that I liked is when Undertaker was about to give Angle the apron leg drop, but remembering how Angle was able to reverse it last time into an Ankle Lock, Undertaker turns Angle over onto his stomach so he can't reverse is this time. Also does more damage to the neck of Kurt, which is smart on Undertaker's behalf.

A powerslam from Angle transitions into a small period of him being in control, before they go back and forth a little with Undertaker fighting back with his power and striking ability and Angle just trying to hit 'Taker with anything he can, which is eventually a superplex (Cole needs shooting at this point, he must have screamed "OH MY" about 6 times when Angle was hitting the superplex).

The superplex may have taken down The Undertaker, but it also hurt Angle, and not before long both guys are back up and trying to punch each others face in . Undertaker obviously wins the exchange, and Angle realises he needs to do something quick to try and win the match, and here comes the first Ankle Lock of the match! We get some nice counters (only one from the Ankle Lock atm) before Angle lands the Angle Slam! That only gets him a 2 count, so its back to the trusted Ankle Lock. Undertaker is hurting from the Angle Slam, so now might be the perfect time for Angle to lock it in. 'Taker is 'Taker though, and he doesn't stay in the hold for long, and chokeslams Angle! Angle no sells and quickly grabs the ankle AGAIN, but this gets countered into the Triangle Choke; shades of NWO! We then get a replay of the NWO finish, except this time The Undertaker rolls through and keeps hold of the Triangle Choke!!!

Angle gets to the ropes, but is still pretty out of it, so Undertaker positions him for a regular leg drop, which will target the neck. However, Undertaker just seems to be so desperate to put the champion away, he forgot that Angle can counter this, and BAM, Ankle Lock one more time! A couple more counters, and Undertaker gets on the losing end of a DDT.

The Angle Slam didn't work. The Ankle Lock is constantly countered... so Angle decides to go all out with a MOONSAULT! It doesn't pay off, and The Undertaker hits a Tombstone! He covers and... Mark Fat Bastard Shit Face Cunt Henry breaks up the count and gets the match stopped for a DQ . He then puts Undertaker through a table, setting up to the triple threat in Australia that I talked about a few weeks ago, and of course the WrestleMania casket match.

Really glad I got to see this match again, because its awesome. Not on the level of No Way Out, and certainly not on the level as their Smackdown 2003 match, but its still pretty great and better than their other matches. The end was shitty, but everything leading up to it was pretty great. Angle wasn't suplex crazy (though I doubt Undertaker wanted to take multiple over head belly to bellys lol), and he only started using the Ankle Lock AFTER his Angle Slam didn't work, and during the final 10 minutes of this 25 minute match, which was the counter/move/counter/move WWE Main Event Style finishing stretch. A better ending, and maybe another 5 or so minutes added on BEFORE they go into the finishing stretch, and this could have been better than NWO.

*Rating: ****1/4*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*THE UNDERTAKER 2008 TV PROJECT*

Downloading SD 08, and January had finished downloading so I'm gonna get started with this thingymanbo.

*January 4th 2008 - The Undertaker Vs Mark Henry - Beat the Clock Challenge*

Matt Striker is announced as his opponent first, which seems like the easiest match ever for the Dead Man. He comes out with a referee shirt on and says he's the special guest referee instead! Vickie Guerrero is stacking the odds against any major threat to Edge's title by screwing them out of these matches. Batista got screwed, then Chavo was given FUNAKI in order to set the current winning time.

Undertaker tries to wear down Henry with massive punches to the face, but HENRY no sells the shit out of them and starts clubbing the fuck out of the Dead Man!

:mark: Henry just fucking CRASHES into the steel steps.

Undertaker is trying to wear down the WORLD'S STRONGEST MAN but Henry just keeps getting back into the match and putting a stop to any momentum the Dead Man can muster.

OLD SCHOOL~!

COUNTERED INTO A BEAR HUG~!

LESS THAN A MINUTE LEFT~!

20 seconds left and we get a CHOKESLAM~!

1...

2...

STRIKER REFUSES TO COUNT~! TIME RUNS OUT~! UNDERTAKER GETS SCREWED~!

This was a good 6 minute match. Has Yeah seen this? He always pimps one of their SD 06 matches, and while this ain't as good I'm sure he'd like it.

*Rating: **1/2*


*January 11th 2008 - The Undertaker Vs Mark Henry & Matt Striker - Handicap Match*

The Dead Man gets a shot at revenge this week in a 2 on 1 handicap match against Henry and the man who screwed him out of a title shot last week!!!

:lmao Undertaker charges at Striker first who runs out of the ring faster than I'd run to ROOT if she offered sex. This gives Undertaker a chance to take on Henry alone!

:lmao oh man Undertaker is up for Old School, and Striker gets up on the apron to knock him down... but Undertaker turns round and Striker fucking legs it again :lmao. But it was enough for Henry to recover and drag the Dead Man off the ropes.

:lmao Striker is fucking awesome in this. Henry has Undertaker down, Striker gets in the ring saying he wants him... but Undertaker sits up and again Striker shits himself and fucking RUNS :lmao.

Undertaker cannot be fucking STOPPED tonight. He's out for revenge and not even 2 men can take him out. He mauls Henry, Tombstones Striker (who must have taken lessons from Regal on how to take a Tombstone... legs flailing all over the place :lmao) and this one is over quickly!

BIG DADDY V wanders out but fucking Undertaker is on a roll! BDV is taken care of, Chokeslam to Henry! God help the 29 other men in the RR match with The Undertaker!

Short and basically a fucking squash lol, but damn it's so much fun.

*Rating: **1/2*


*January 25th 2008 - The Undertaker Vs Big Daddy V*

So this is the match from the Undertaker Deadliest Matches DVD set. Saw it recently but I'll watch it again .

Was disappointed with the previous SD as Undertaker opened the show, BDV came out and they looked to have a match but it was just a brawl with Striker telling BDV to wait .

"This is the first time these two have ever met" :lmao ok lets ignore the fact that Big Daddy V used to be Mabel. And Viscera. I guess for WWE BDV is kinda like Superman, except instead of taking off his glasses, he gets his tits out. Whenever he has his tits covered up, he's just Mabel or Viscera...

God I love Undertaker's punches. Especially on a big bastard like a Henry, Big Show and in this case BDV, who can just take big shots to the face over and over again lol.

GIANT HEADBUTT :mark:. Man Undertaker made that look fucking lethal. Just dropped to the mat like he'd been shot.

:mark: MOAR punches to the fucking face.

Undertaker spends most of the match trying to take down the big man, and finally a running boot to the face gets it done!

CHOKESLAM~! CHOKESLAM TO THE MONSTER~!

KICK OUT!!! BIG DADDY V KICKED OUT OF A CHOKESLAM!!!

OLD SCHOOL~! Only knocks BDV to one knee!

BLACK HOLE SLAM~!

BDV goes in for a cover, and Undertaker looks to apply a Triangle Choke, a move he's used in the past to take down even THE BIG SHOW, but BDV is so much WIDER it just won't work.

BDV just MOUNTS Undertaker and throws huge punches to the face, until Undertaker grabs hold of him and applies THAT SUBMISSION HOLD~!

Big Daddy V taps out IMMEDIATELY and is bleeding from the mouth! Now THAT is how you put over a new submission! Undertaker's usual shit wouldn't work on a guy like V, so he had to adapt like he always does, and this one is over.

Henry coming down after and telling Undertaker he went too far is just icing on the cake for putting over HELLS GATE. Great match.

*Rating: ***1/4*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I've never seen the 2006 SD match either, just the 2003 SD and 2006 NWO, both got ****3/4 from me on recent viewings.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK, I'm gonna need a 5000 word essay on why you haven't posted a 5000 word essay on your thoughts regarding Cesaro/Zayn.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Taker getting mad after the botched chin-breaker at the end and shouting "FUCK" still slays me.


That was good too even though the jawbreaker didn't even look that bad from where I saw it. But still, absolutely nothing beats Taker having to tell them to bump. I don't think anyone would need that much guiding in a fucking wrestling school. :lmao



Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Oh well. Orton has been good in 2014 besides his awful Rumble match with Cena, probably bringing his best promo work in like 8 years too :lol.


Orton after TLC has been absolutely flawless. Just non-stop awesome work week after week and yep, finally he's truly stepped up with his promos. Hope he keeps it up for the rest of the year.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I still need to see him chewing out the fans during his match against Bryan this past Monday.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker was pissed because he was supposed to CHOKESLAM the guy, but he ended up falling or some shit which looked like a jawbreaker .


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Orton doing his legend killer pose during that DDT on Monday was the shits.

I lol'd.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Undertaker was pissed because he was supposed to CHOKESLAM the guy, but he ended up falling or some shit which looked like a jawbreaker .


Ah, that explains it. :lmao

Also what was it he said right before "BUMP!" when he punched that other guy?  Sounded like "Feed" or something.



WrestlingforEverII said:


> Orton doing his legend killer pose during that DDT on Monday was the shits.
> 
> I lol'd.


Speaking of his pose, I've noticed that he no longer spreads his arms out as much as he used to back in the days. Nowadays he gets his arms up, leans back only a bit and looks almost like a statue. Didn't even notice it until somebody else pointed it out in another thread a couple of months back.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I've also been enjoying Randal's work a lot more lately. It's too bad he has no focus put on him despite being champion because Big Dave got so over as a heel :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

How was the Orton/Bryan match from Raw? Up to par with their last 2 Raw matches or not?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Not up to par with the two Raw matches but better than their 2013 PPV encounters


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I've been meaning to ask that as well. All I've seen from Raw were the opening and closing segments and the Real Americans/Usos match. DAT UPPERCUT + finish. :mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

So, not as good as two stellar TV matches but better than piles of dog shit? 

(I actually don't dislike the Bryan/Orton PPV series THAAAAT much)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Haha was just gonna say, they could have gone in the ring and took turns at having a shit and it would have been better than their PPV encounters .

:mark: First 3 months of SD 08 have finished downloading, in the middle of Feb for this Undertaker 08 TV project. Been a bunch of great matches so far :mark:.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Bryan/Orton from Monday was decent, nothing great but they also didn't get as much time.

I don't quite get the over the top hate for their PPV matches. They weren't shit, just average. But to my surprise, Night of Champions turned out much better than I recall it when I rewatched it a few weeks ago. Good crowd and plenty of good action although the stupid finish put a damper on a lot of it for me, which is why I thought their other two PPV matches were better at first.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> How was the Orton/Bryan match from Raw? Up to par with their last 2 Raw matches or not?


Fun but not a patch on them matches.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> Bryan/Orton from Monday was decent, nothing great but they also didn't get as much time.
> 
> I don't quite get the over the top hate for their PPV matches. They weren't shit, just average. But to my surprise, Night of Champions turned out much better than I recall it when I rewatched it a few weeks ago. Good crowd and plenty of good action although the stupid finish put a damper on a lot of it for me, which is why I thought their other two PPV matches were better at first.


I've only seen the NoC match more than once, and I'd probably say that was the best of the bunch. NoC was decent until the stupid finish, Battleground started off pretty badly but picked up in the last 5 or so minutes before the STUPID finish, and HIAC was mediocre and never really picked up IMO.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Bryan/Orton from Monday was average at best, they reverted back to their street fight hubbah bubbah bleh. It was disappointing to me as I LOVED the feb and dec matches, think the former is Orton best match in years. I actually liked their NOC 13 match btw


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm still not sure why I'm supposed to dislike the NoC match. That match was a thrill to watch, especially with a five year old mark. What did they do wrong in it, besides the finish which wasn't even that bad?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm still not sure why I'm supposed to dislike the NoC match. That match was a thrill to watch, especially with a five year old mark. What did they do wrong in it, besides the finish which wasn't even that bad?


Yeah, it really picked up for me when I rewatched it. Besides the finish, they do a pretty good job throughout. Went from ★★★ to ★★★¾ after giving it a second chance.

Only Orton PPV match that sucked since 2013 imo is the SVS one with Big "Extra Sluggish" Show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I found the Bryan/Orton PPV matches to be utterly dull beyond belief and I think it was NOC that just had a weird match structure that took me out of the whole thing.

Struggling to think of an Orton PPV match in 2013 I liked. Oh, he was in that Shield 6 man at WM, so that .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*February 1st 2008 - The Undertaker & Kane Vs Mark Henry & Big Daddy V*

FUCKING BEEF~!

This looks like the most awesome thing ever on paper tbh.

Match is JIP as Kane is mauling Henry in the corner. A taped show and you still miss the start of a match for a fucking break?

:lmao Henry tried to catch Kane for a bearhug and just collapses backwards :lmao. World's Strongest Man my arse .

UNDERTAKER~! Gets tagged in and caves Henry's face in :mark:.

:mark: A repeated spot from the handicap match the other week, only this time when Striker distracted Undertaker during Old School, Undertaker reverses Henry's counter, lands on his feet and boots his fucking face in!!! :mark:

Henry & BDV try their best to gain some sort of control in this one, but the Brothers of Destruction are just too DOMINANT regardless of the size of their opponents.

:mark: Henry & V try to gain the advantage on the outside with some illegal double teaming, but Undertaker just strolls on round and BDV backs off like a little bitch and the referee can't do fuck all about it :mark:.

Kane is hurting though and despite Undertaker preventing a double assault from these 2 beefy bastards, he still can't get that tag he desperately needs.

MOVE~! BDV just screams at the ref so he can run the ropes and crash into Kane. No wonder I used to have nightmares about Viscera, him crushing people still terrifies me lol. Like if he wanted to, he could have smothered someone to death by just backing them into a corner .

HOT TAG~!

Undertaker is on fire (which kane is thankful for, doubt he wants any part of that again)!

DOUBLE CHOKESLAM TO BIG DADDY V~!

ONE ARM FUCKING CHOKESLAM TO HENRY~!

THAT SUBMISSION HOLD~!

HENRY TAPS~!

Yeah this is fucking great. 4 big bastards beefing it out with each other :mark:.

*Rating: ***1/2*


*February 8th 2008 - The Undertaker, Finlay & Batista Vs Big Daddy V, MVP & The Great Khali*

All 6 Elimination Chamber participants facing off in a 6 man tag! FINLAY AND UNDERTAKER AS A TEAM :mark:. Shame about some of the other "talent" involved in this match...

Finlay starts with MVP and fucking schools him on the match. Some other tags that end with BDV and Batista, and then UNDERTAKER gets tagged in :mark:.

:lmao BDV counters Old School, and it LOOKS like he wants to tag out but ends up going back to wrestling 'Taker. Guess nobody else wanted in the match .

OLD SCHOOL TO BIG DADDY V~!

OLD SCHOOL TO MVP~!

CLOTHESLINE TO UNDERTAKER~!

:lmao Khali gets tagged in for the first time and... COMMERICAL BREAK! Thank fook for that .

:lmao at MVP trying to throw punches at Undertaker. Stop it.

Batista tags in and looks better than MVP. 

FINLAY TIME~!

He beats the fuck out of MVP then decks both opponents still on the apron. Not because he wanted to cheat when the ref stopped them coming in. But because he fucking WANTED TO.

Finlay knocked off the ropes to the floor, and Big Daddy V tries to attack him until UNDERTAKER charges round just like last week and BDV backs the fuck down again :mark:. 

:mark: at Finlay selling the Khali chop.

:mark: Finlay FIP :mark:. Manages to take a good beating even from the two useless twats on the opposing team, and Big Daddy V too.

HOT TAG TO UNDERTAKER :mark:.

Finishing stretch time! Samoan Drop to 'Taker, Spear to BDV etc, Shillelagh to Khali and the ref calls for the bell, Dry By to Finlay and a Chokeslam to MVP!!!

Undertaker is alone in the ring, but suddenly Finlay and Batista surround him and look like they wanna go after him, setting up to the chamber match!

Super fun tag, even with some shitty talent involved. Undertaker and Finlay were both awesome in it and did all the work pretty much.

*Rating: ****


*February 15th 2008 - The Undertaker Vs Big Daddy V*

:mark: another match between these two :mark:.

Find it hilarious that they keep referring to BDV as "the mastodon", the same nickname they gave Vader (because Vince wanted to change his name to Mastodon but luckily Cornette and others prevented it from happening), AND BDV does the V hand signal too .

BDV also pushes guys into the corner and starts beating the feck out of them. BLACK VADER~! DARTH VADER? BIG DADDY VADER~!

They take turns at beating the fuck out of each other until Striker makes a difference allowing BDV to gain control.

:lmao at BDV when he mounts his opponents and starts to "ride" them. Not in the "Love Machine" way but in the "Kurt Angle amateur wrestling" kinda way. Looks insane coming from a guy his size.

RUNNING DDT~! And this one is over.

Match was fun, not up to par with their match from Jan but yet another good 08 TV match for the Dead Man.

Undertaker wants him some of Striker after the match too, and Chokeslams before locking in THAT SUBMISSION HOLD~!

*Rating: **1/2*


*February 22nd 2008 - The Undertaker Vs Zack Ryder*

:lmao Undertaker just looks fucking DISGUSTED with his opponent. Like, who the fuck is this jobber?

Ryder tries to gain control with a sneak attack while Undertaker stares down Edge, but it just ain't working .

:lmao oh man Ryder just gets fucking annihilated by the Dead Man. Undertaker doesn't give a shit, he's just throwing the kid around like he's nothing (which is exactly what he is haha). Awesome.

LOW BLOW behind the referee's back, and Ryder gets a 1 count in the Dead Man aka the highlight of his entire life .

Undertaker shrugs everything off and continues to maul this nobody, all the while looking back at Edge, showing him exactly what's in store for him at WM.

THAT SUBMISSION~! Ryder taps.

*Rating: ***


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm still not sure why I'm supposed to dislike the NoC match. That match was a thrill to watch, especially with a five year old mark. What did they do wrong in it, besides the finish which wasn't even that bad?


I think the problem with the NOC match, is I watched it and thought it was good, but I think its a perfect example of the phrase "felt like a normal raw match"

Their HIAC is a DUD


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I would like to appoint that beefs beefing it out tends to get a little *too* overrated out here. And this is someone who loved a lot of beef beefs like Henry/Show and Vader/Bigelow.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

How is it overrated?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Big Daddy V's tits are impossible to overrate. The actual sun isn't as big as the sun tattoo on his left breast.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I guess some of the matches tend to get a little too much praise than they deserve just because they have two big guys duking it out. For example, Henry/Show SVS 2011. I know there are quite a few who really like this, but I thought it just wasn't doing it that much for me. It was more by the motions than the excellent Vengeance match. Show's Elbow Drop, as cool as it may have been, wasn't even that much of a dealbreaker. I hated Kane/Khali at WM 23 (only liked the WM 3 callback) and I've heard some say they liked it. I've also heard praise for that 4-Way big guy Battle Royal in ECW. I don't know, I just tend to guess big guy vs. big guy matches *sometimes* get more praise than they deserve out here.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The HIAC Orton/Bryan match was underwhelming because it felt like it never picked up into another gear. That combined with the shenanigans makes for one underwhelming match.

Speaking of which, I'm ecstatic about Orton main eventing Wrestlemania again. :mark: EVAN posted a few pages back and all I gotta say is this: Remember during HIAC when you posted something about how Punk and Cena are laughing at these two "geeks" (Orton and Bryan) thinking that come Mania time, they will be pushed down the card for the "real main eventers"? How'd that go? 

As for BEEF, it does get a bit overrated around here, but it's still not as bad as the "character" geeks who try to hate on proper wrestling because they want their stupid "characters".


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

All depends on what you like, really. That's why there isn't really a set criteria for rating matches, no matter how much Cal likes to pimp his scale.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Different strokes for different blokes. 

I think a lot of love for fatties is the sense of spectacle. I mean, it doesn't look all that great when you see two 170 pounders trading wristlocks, but seeing two 400 pounders elbowing each other has that "woah" factor, even if they have very little "wrestling" talent compared to the technicians. At the end of the day, that's what wrestling is, a spectacle and it's so easy to appreciate the spectacle of two big guys clobbering each other in comparison to the scientific wrestling or the psychology/story driven wrestling. I also think that people take a liking to it because Wrestling is a staged fight and the more it resembles a fight whilst still keeping the theatrical aspects, it kinda makes sense that it appeals to some people a bit more than other ways of wrestling, I guess? I suppose from that you could say "in that case go watch MMA" but whatever, I know what I mean and I hope you guys do as well. Otherwise I'm talking shit, which wouldn't surprise me either.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

I'd say its all a matter of taste, like if you were to say to me "Would you rather watch a 5 minute Bret Hart match or a 5 minute John Tenta match?" I'd take Tenta hands down 100% of the time simply because I enjoy a good big guy.

I was gonna try and argue Flux's spectacle point but actually he's dead on the more I think about it. 

I mean its not a matter of I think matches with "fatties" are better, there's a distinct difference between what is better and what one prefers to watch, am I an idiot for wanting to watch Vader punch someone in the face rather than watch a Flair/Steamboat match? No, Flair/Steamboat is almost certainly better but I get much more enjoyment out of Vader.

Fuck it, might go on a big guy kick tonight, that Bossman/Tenta feud is just sitting there waiting to be watched (yes I'm an idiot, sue me, Cal, WOOLCOCK, Yeah, Cody and a few others can attest to that).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If "big beefy" matches are overrated because some matches aren't as good as people say (which seems to be ATF's point), then everything in the history of everything, not just wrestling, is overrated .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well of course, Calrock Holmes. My main point is that big beefy matches tend to get overrated because they ARE big beefy matches. Ones that get more praise than they deserve - that actually is a secondary point. 

Though take this: overrated does not mean bad at all. I love me some big human Godzillas fight it out. Some of my all-time favs like Kane, Vader and Henry are all beefies (sort-of for Kane). It's just that sometimes, the praise here gets a little overboard. Just my pov though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Every "style" has matches like that though .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I have to admit, one thing this thread has taught me that I didn't pick up on my own, was the appreciation of a good beef fest. I wouldn't say I was a work rate mark before joining or anything, but I never really enjoyed big Godzilla wars until this past year. I always enjoyed big man vs little man dynamics, of the under dog trying to conquer the monster, and never realized that watching a monster try to take down another monster can be just as, if not more, enjoyable to watch.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Was watching WrestleMania 6 last night and the Barbarian literally decapitated Tito Santana with a top rope clothesline :banderas


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Flux said:


> Different strokes for different blokes.
> 
> I think a lot of love for fatties is the sense of spectacle. I mean, it doesn't look all that great when you see two 170 pounders trading wristlocks, but seeing two 400 pounders elbowing each other has that "woah" factor, even if they have very little "wrestling" talent compared to the technicians. At the end of the day, that's what wrestling is, a spectacle and it's so easy to appreciate the spectacle of two big guys clobbering each other in comparison to the scientific wrestling or the psychology/story driven wrestling. I also think that people take a liking to it because Wrestling is a staged fight and the more it resembles a fight whilst still keeping the theatrical aspects, it kinda makes sense that it appeals to some people a bit more than other ways of wrestling, I guess? I suppose from that you could say "in that case go watch MMA" but whatever, I know what I mean and I hope you guys do as well. Otherwise I'm talking shit, which wouldn't surprise me either.


:clap:clap, I literally mark everytime I see Big Show or Henry do a simple arm drag

I think I love big guy wrestling (favorite type of matches) because I literally mark for Punches and elbows in itself.Its such a small part of a match on the whole surface, but it's key in my enjoyment and I'd rather watch guys punch the shit outta each other, then 10 180 flips and holds.In these type of matches it just too big guys throwing haymakers and clubs and I just cant get enough of it. When they break into a bit more chain wrestling , I love it even more because of FLUX standpoint

I hope that made sense alittle bit 


Also you could make a case every big match in history is "overrated"


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

When did "heat" become "beef"? :floyd2 What year is it, how long have I been asleep?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The feck are you on about lol?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK I demand some answers.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

There are many ways to describe Craig but 'idiot' would never cross my mind.



The Lady Killer said:


> WOOLCOCK I demand some answers.


I'm a bitter disappointment (to quote my father).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao That'll do.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Big beefy matches are either a delight, or they're the most boring matches in existence. My issue is more with people who just like a match because it's stiff and nothing more.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Why is that an issue? If people like stiff matches, so be it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah but I don't think stiffness alone makes a match "good", and a wrestler that chooses not to work stiff is not any less of a worker than one who does.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

But what if someone thinks an otherwise dull match is bumped up to "good" if a wrestler works a bit stiff? Idk, argument is futile because it all comes down to personal preference.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah it's not worth arguing. But I don't really get any lasting effect from someone working stiff. It's very low in the priority of what I want in a match, and so long as the moves look decent enough, I don't think you need to work so stiffly. But not everyone can be Jerry Lawler.

To sum it up in economist terms, the marginal utility/benefit of a stiff punch is not that much different from that of a decent one.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I have a degree in economics so I understand your point. However, I know that the benefit is more than simply marginal because people think the more realistic the strikes, the more believable the match, especially in a blood feud. I can see that.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I guess it's just something that doesn't do much for me and I'll never get it. The same way that high flying fast paced action doesn't do much for Cal or matwork doesn't do much for SKINS.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Idk why but Bret Hart matches (aside from the Austin ones) never did anything for me.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> I would like to appoint that beefs beefing it out tends to get a little *too* overrated out here.


NOPE.



Craig said:


> Fuck it, might go on a big guy kick tonight, that Bossman/Tenta feud is just sitting there waiting to be watched (yes I'm an idiot, sue me, Cal, WOOLCOCK, Yeah, Cody and a few others can attest to that).


c'mon their GAB match was super. Just needed an appreciative crowd. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Big beefy matches are either a delight, or they're the most boring matches in existence.


this can be true. It's not like ALL big v. big matches are fun. People have brought up Kane here in a positive way but he's honestly not someone I'd say is very good at beef at all (or, honestly, very good at wrestling). He has way too much lame-ass shit like his awful from-the-ropes clothesline and whatnot. Even take people like Henry or Meng, who can be fucking amazing at beef matches, but it's insomia curing if they decide to spend the whole match on a bearhug or neck grip.

--------------

I've talked about stiffness before, but its pretty easy to understand. I consider stiffness to be a positive the same way I consider unrealistic, feathery, Kofi Kingston offense to be a negative. I don't think stiffness automatically means the match is anything special (I don't like several matches where KENTA kicks hard, etc), nor do I think matches that have no stiffness aren't that good (it just has to look passable), but if there's an average match that's stiff, a positive I can say about it is ''at least it was stiff''. I mean there would be SOME matches where stiffness is the main reason the match is awesome, but if everything but the offense is bad then it's just not going to be good. I guess an example would be if Davey Richards stiffly got the shit kicked out him but no-sold all of it. Selling's off, pacing's off, structure's off, stiffness is on? It's not going to be good.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Idk why but Bret Hart matches (aside from the Austin ones) never did anything for me.


I'm kind of in the same boat. Apart from his Austin matches, I can't really think of any that I'd say are GREAT. The Owen matches at WrestleMania and SummerSlam, I suppose. Plenty of good matches, but none that get me super excited.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't recall liking the cage match much, and I'd definitely have to watch the WM match again (it's literally been about 15 years since i've seen that, if not longer).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ruiner87 said:


> I'm kind of in the same boat. Apart from his Austin matches, I can't really think of any that I'd say are GREAT. The Owen matches at WrestleMania and SummerSlam, I suppose. Plenty of good matches, but none that get me super excited.


*cough* Hennig *cough*

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Bret's matches with Diesel and Perfect were incredible. Yes, incredible.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I've voice my opinion on Bret many of times so I dont feel the need to get into it again. Ive recently taked a bit of a Hart viewing the past few weeks, and Ive come to the realization I have some PRETTY unpopular opinions on which of his I think are great and which arent


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I did enjoy his matches with Diesel, now that Chismo mentions it. Would have to go back and watch the Perfect match. Actually not sure if I've ever seen it in full.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> I did enjoy his matches with Diesel, now that Chismo mentions it. Would have to go back and watch the Perfect match. Actually not sure if I've ever seen it in full.


Definitely do that mate. Summerslam and KOTR. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I was thinking the SS match. Forgot about the KOTR match. Will have to watch both.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Not sure which one I prefer, both are real classics imo. Probably Summerslam at a push.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Bret Hart may be the best worker in the company's history, but he works matches in a very methodical, chess like fashion where EVERYTHING has to make sense and EVERYTHING has to feel real which may be unexciting and dull to some watchers, which I can understand, but personally, he's a ring professor which I am in awe of every time I watch his matches


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I get that his gimmick is to basically be a perfectionist in the ring, and I can appreciate it, but there are numerous instances/matches where it literally bores me to tears.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> I get that his gimmick is to basically be a perfectionist in the ring, and I can appreciate it, but there are numerous instances/matches where it literally bores me to tears.



If you would please watch the following Bret matches:

Vs Perfect Summerslam 1991
Vs Perfect KotR 1993
Vs Owen WM 10
Vs Owen NHB Raw
Vs Owen White Plains NY Action Zone
Vs Davey Boy IYH Seasons Beatings 1995 (must watch entire match, slow in the beginning put picks up like crazy in the end with Bret bleeding all over the fucking place)
Vs Bam Bam KotR 1993
Vs 1-2-3 Kid Raw 1994
Vs Diesel SVS 1995
Vs Diesel RR 1996
Vs Hakushi IYH 1995

Those matches, along with 2 classics he had with Austin, are Bret's Best IMHO (for the record I love SS 1992 vs Davey Boy and SS 1994 vs Owen as well but I know many in here don't)

If you watch those, I think you might learn to appreciate Bret more. He also has a great match with Ted DiBiase in Texas at a house show that's on his DVD set.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I love that Bulldog match. Maybe I've just forgotten about some of his good stuff.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> I love that Bulldog match. Maybe I've just forgotten about some of his good stuff.



Could be the case. Bret being so ungracious for the majority of his retirement, plus the fact that he always comes off as a total mark for himself in interviews, has undoubtedly done damage to his rep. Plus the fact that Bret wrestled his last match over 14 years ago, and wasn't really relevant for the last 3 years of the career, I think Bret has actually become a bit underrated for some people.

In my opinion, he absolutely should be considered one of the 10 greatest wrestlers in WWE history, and he deserves STRONG consideration for 10 greatest wrestlers in North American history. In his prime, when he was at his best, no one could touch Bret. He was the brains behind what is widely considered the best match in North American History, and numerous top stars, including Steve Austin, have said Bret is the best they have ever been in the ring with.

When it comes to Bret vs Shawn Michaels, a guy who many in the WWE considered "the greatest wrestler ever", I don't even think it's a competition, I'll take Bret Hart over Shawn any day of the week.


----------



## lemo (Jan 1, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Idk why but Bret Hart matches (aside from the Austin ones) never did anything for me.



****+ Bret Hart matches

Bret vs Dynamite Kid wwf 1985
Bret vs Steamboat 
Bret vs Savage SNME
Bret vs Ric Martel Boston Garden 1989
Bret vs Perfect SS 91
Bret vs Dibiase MSG 91
Bret vs Piper WM 8
Bret vs Bulldog SS 92
Bret vs Shawn Survivor Series 92
Bret vs Razor RR 93
Bret vs Bam Bam 1993
Bret vs Perfect KOTR 93
Bret vs Owen WM X
Bret vs Buckland Superstars 1994
Bret vs 123 Kid Raw 1994
Bret vs Owen SS 94
Bret vs Buckland Survivor Series 1994
Bret vs Diesel RR 1995
Bret vs Hakushi Raw 1995
Bret vs Jean Pierre Lafitte IYH 3
Bret vs Diesel SS 95
Bret vs Bulldog IYH
Bret vs Shawm WM 12
Bret vs Austin SS 96
Bret vs Austin WM
Bret vs Taker ONO
Bret vs Benoit Nitro 99

Also amazingly he gave below average wrestlers like Berzerker, Papa Shango , Fatu , Patriot, Henry Godwin, Blake Beverly, Mantuar, Crush, Honky Tonk Man and many more the matches of thier life.

Oh not mentionening Hart Foundation classic tag team matches against Demolition, Bulldogs, Rockers, Twin Towers, Rougue Brothers and Islanders.




Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Mike Enos...below average? Hell most of those aren't below average.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Mike Enos...below average? Hell most of those aren't below average.



Was Enos any good in the WWF? I honestly can't recall ever seeing a Beverly Brothers match


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Honestly I haven't seen a whole lot either, but I can't imagine him not being at least OK. I should make my next Enos-watch bundle all Blake Beverly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

100% understand the notion of Bret's bad side. I'm a big fan too, but yeah. There's a chunk I dislike. I'm awful for bringing it up again, but shit. It was right on display in the thread. 

Here's a more pleasant common topic I bring up:

Midnight Express vs Pillman & Zenk from Capital Combat ruled. MIDNIGHT EXPRESS. Still have Steiners vs Doom & Flair vs Luger left, but I'm gonna bank on myself loving the Midnight Express match the most on the second WCW PPV from 1990. Next up is GAB. I wonder how well the Express do on that event...8*D


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> 100% understand the notion of Bret's bad side. I'm a big fan too, but yeah. There's a chunk I dislike. I'm awful for bringing it up again, but shit. It was right on display in the thread.
> 
> Here's a more pleasant common topic I bring up:
> 
> Midnight Express vs Pillman & Zenk from Capital Combat ruled. MIDNIGHT EXPRESS. Still have Steiners vs Doom & Flair vs Luger left, but I'm gonna bank on myself loving the Midnight Express match the most on the second WCW PPV from 1990. Next up is GAB. I wonder how well the Express do on that event...8*D



Want a fucking awesome tag match to watch sometime in the near future? Arn/Ole vs Rock n Roll Express Cage Match Starrcade 1986. Two heats, one good one on Robert to start, then one CLASSIC on Rickey resulting in him bleeding like a stuck pig, with Arn and Ole just TORTURING poor Rickey's limbs. Easily the best match on the card. ****

Now, if either you or Yeah1993 can reciprocate and give me a great WCW tag on a PPV so I can have something good to watch on the Networ tonight, I'd be much obliged 

I can't wait until they add all the Clash's, having all the PPV's is great but the Clash's really had some classic matches I'm dying to see in HD for the first time.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I just rewatched Hart/Henning SS 91 after the discussion earlier, yea this may be a stretch but I think this is Hart's best match (henning's as well) Literally Perfect (pun intended)

I prefer it by a hair to vs. scsa mania 13


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I don't know if it tops WM 13, but I can honestly say I've watched that match more than any other Bret Hart OR Curt Hennig match. It's just beautiful to watch. Amazing to know Hennig wrestled that match with a seriously fucked up back.

If I were you, I'd go watch the KotR bout between the two. They do some excellent call backs while also changing things up.

One thing I got enormously pissed about, and I'm actually not quite sure why it made me so mad, but it was when I saw Curtis Axel doing Mr. Perfects patented "grab the top rope, have the opponent kick your feet out from under you and do a back flip spot". No one else should ever be allowed to do that. Curtis Axel is bad enough, but ruining one of your dad's signature spots is just a tragedy.

The only thing that irritates me more is when I see a wrestler do the Cactus Clothesline. That's Mick's, people shouldn't touch it. 

Then again I appreciated it when Brock did the 3 Amigos to Punk at Summerslam as a tribute to Eddie, so I don't know why having other people do retired/deceased wrestlers spots annoys me.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Is the Summerslam match the one where Heenan is GOATing on commentary? And Hennig has The Coach with him? "HE HIT A MAN WITH GLASSES!!"

***** match, even without the commentary.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually think Axel does it subtle enough so it acts as a tribute instead of being his entire character. He still does his own things in the ring. Those things just happen to be boring. I personally love tribute moves being done in matches. No move should be exclusive to an individual. I see more respect in performing the move rather than not doing so, but that's just me.

Mike Enos was the only above average guy on that list.

Did anyone catch the two really good Reddit AMAs these past couple days? One was by a former worker for the WWE, and today's one is by Ted Dibiase. Dibiase specifically brings up this awesome point of discussion.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Honky Tonk Man getting no credit while being on that list is alarming. And I've always liked Crush. But yeah, Honky Tonk Man. C'mon now. And Del Wilkes gets snubbed too? Boourns.

Note taken, CJack. I've started at the early 90's right now but I'll make my way back to seeing the 80's goodies. (Y)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I actually think Axel does it subtle enough so it acts as a tribute instead of being his entire character. He still does his own things in the ring. Those things just happen to be boring. I personally love tribute moves being done in matches. No move should be exclusive to an individual. I see more respect in performing the move rather than not doing so, but that's just me.
> 
> Mike Enos was the only above average guy on that list.
> 
> Did anyone catch the two really good Reddit AMAs these past couple days? One was by a former worker for the WWE, and today's one is by Ted Dibiase. Dibiase specifically brings up this awesome point of discussion.


I think it's like this:

If you're a great wrestler already, and you have some sort of connection to the wrestler whose move or spot you are doing, then tributes are cool. Like I said, I thought it was pretty cool how Brock did Eddies 3 Amigos to Punk at Summerslam. Eddie won his only world title from Brock right before Brock left the WWE, and Eddie helped Punk out and put him over on the indie circuit while he was getting his life back together. And Summerslam was in LA, with a big Latino community. It was a good tribute.

The reason it bugs me with Axel is, it appears the guys entire gimmick/character is "My dad was Mr. Perfect and my grandfather was Larry the Axe, therefore I must be good and you must like me too". That's hogwash. Axel isn't the worst thing ever in the ring, but he's certainly not good, and his character is about as dull and lifeless as it gets. Essentially, he's the polar opposite of Curt Hennig, who possessed one of the greatest characters ever and was as good as anyone in the ring.

I realized while I'm typing this that this is just picking nits to a ridiculous degree so I'm gonna top now.. Essentially, I'm just really bummed out that Curt Hennigs kid sucks as bad as he does. Some how Ricky Steamboat, Ted DiBiase, and Curt Hennigs sons all managed to suck. Those 3 should be on most people's list for 10 best wrestlers of the 1980's. I guess gene's really aren't everything :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I honestly don't remember ever liking a Honky Tonk Man match. Gimme something to watch, please.

Here's something interesting from the Ted Dibiase AMA:



> Ted,
> 
> Thanks so much for your time. Long-time fan of yours and your UWF angle/match with Ric Flair is always one of my favorite angles of all time.
> 
> ...


And Mr. Dibiase's response:



> You're welcome. Glad to be here. One of the biggest things I noticed when I came back to AJPW in 1993 was the increase in doing more highspots and less selling. IMO, it's about telling a story. It goes back to the old school style, if you do highspot after highspot after highspot and no one is selling then it loses its value.
> 
> One of my favorite matches in AJPW was with Tenryu. He understood the importance of selling. One of the things about the Japanese wrestling style and culture, is that selling was viewed as a weakness. When in fact you sell with the express purpose of making the comeback which makes you look stronger.


Quite an interesting perspective. Maybe less so his stance on early 90s AJPW, but I love what he said about how selling can make an individual look stronger than no-selling.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Now, if either you or Yeah1993 can reciprocate and give me a great WCW tag on a PPV so I can have something good to watch on the Networ tonight, I'd be much obliged


IDK if you've seen seen the Starrcade 92 tag; if you haven't that is priority #1.

edit - 1993 ALL JAPAN NOT TELLING A STORY?????????????????????


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Windham/Pillman vs Steamboat/Douglas is something I like to think everyone has seen b/c why in the hell haven't you watched it yet?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Many people overlook Bret/Perfect from MSG 1989. That match was a great sign of things to come.

And while DiBiase deserves props for giving kudos to Tenryu (you know, the greatest wrestler ever), he still deserves to be punched in the face because he's dead wrong on AJPW '93. Different selling =/= no selling. Why is everything black-and-white for some dudes? Smh...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dibiase having a moment that rivals my less than stellar thoughts on Kawada vs Misawa 6/3/94 right there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Random match i uploaded: 

*Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Steve Austin (RAW 2.19.01)*

x1iouox


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Peeps talking about 'fatties', should check out Vader vs Otto Wanz too. 

Oh SKINS, ill be uploading Savage/Flair from Japan later.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## DDMac (Feb 20, 2005)

Zayn/Cesaro from NXT Arrival is fantastic, though Zayn's selling is rather spotty at times.

William Regal is eight kinds of awesome on commentary.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> IDK if you've seen seen the Starrcade 92 tag; if you haven't that is priority #1.
> 
> edit - 1993 ALL JAPAN NOT TELLING A STORY?????????????????????





HayleySabin said:


> Windham/Pillman vs Steamboat/Douglas is something I like to think everyone has seen b/c why in the hell haven't you watched it yet?



I guess I outta be ashamed of myself then. I will correct this tragedy and do a short write up right now. Thanks 

Edit- that is after this current match is over. Just flipped on the Network and there is a Jake Roberts vs John Tenta match from MSG in 1990 on :mark:

OH SHIT THERE IS A DUGGAN/IRON SHEIK MATCH ON NEXT :mark: the WWE network is the greatest invention ever.




DDMac said:


> Zayn/Cesaro from NXT Arrival is fantastic, though Zayn's selling is rather spotty at times.
> 
> William Regal is eight kinds of awesome on commentary.



How was it spotty? I thought it was damn near perfect tbh. There were points, Iike the Helluva Kick in the corner, when a brief surge of adrenaline would allow him to put some pressure on the leg, but for the most part Zayn was limping around like he took a shotgun blast to the kneecap. Regal was the perfect color guy in that match, and he explained in those brief moments why Zayn could do what he was doing. That's what a great commentator should do. I shudder to think what would have happened if that match had taken place on RAW. JBL and Cole would have probably spent the entire match making fun of Adrian Neville's ears and Bo Dallas' lisp.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Wait a minute YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT?


----------



## DDMac (Feb 20, 2005)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> How was it spotty? I thought it was damn near perfect tbh. There were points, Iike the Helluva Kick in the corner, when a brief surge of adrenaline would allow him to put some pressure on the leg, but for the most part Zayn was limping around like he took a shotgun blast to the kneecap.


Adrenaline doesn't actually work that way. You don't get to summon it when you choose, especially fifteen to twenty minutes into rigorous activity. And he didn't just put pressure on it. He out and out sprinted. Usain Bolt in this motherfucker.

It didn't throw me completely out of the match, and yes , I agree, for the most part, he did a good job reminding us about the early work in the match.



> Regal was the perfect color guy in that match, and he explained in those brief moments why Zayn could do what he was doing. That's what a great commentator should do. I shudder to think what would have happened if that match had taken place on RAW. JBL and Cole would have probably spent the entire match making fun of Adrian Neville's ears and Bo Dallas' lisp.


Would've been calling Zayn a gnome, tbh.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Hitman said:


> Peeps talking about 'fatties', should check out Vader vs Otto Wanz too.
> 
> Oh SKINS, ill be uploading Savage/Flair from Japan later.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


:mark: awesome, and I'm off work today too

@cjack, yes actually have seen all of the hart/henning matches, even the house shows but SS 91 is my favorite


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Wait a minute YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT?


I have now 

Match was AWESOME. It starts with a great, prolonged, FIP segment with Shane Douglas getting the beat down of his life. Windham and Pillman take turns tagging in and out. The best part of this segment is the hope spots by Douglas, things like kicking Pillman off the apron so he lands neck first on the railing. I'm actually surprised how good Douglas was as the baby face here. You'd think if you want the best match possible, you would want Steamboat in the ring as much as possible, but really, Ricky couldn't have done any better than Douglas did. There were some hellacious bumps onto the particle board on the outside from 3 of the 4 guys in the ring. Windham looked great, but Pillman was the stand out guy for me in this one. Douglas ends up winning the match for him and Ricky with a quick roll up after about 20 minutes of awesomeness.

****1/2


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I thought the same about Zayn's selling during that moment and when he applied that submission hold on Cesaro using the bad leg. I wrote it off as adrenaline because fuck it but I can't lie and say it didn't bug me a bit.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DDMac said:


> Adrenaline doesn't actually work that way. You don't get to summon it when you choose, especially fifteen to twenty minutes into rigorous activity. And he didn't just put pressure on it. He out and out sprinted. Usain Bolt in this motherfucker.
> 
> It didn't throw me completely out of the match, and yes , I agree, for the most part, he did a good job reminding us about the early work in the match.
> 
> ...


Actually adrenaline is a lot like that. 

In the mid 1990s, Emmit Smith separated/dislocated/broke his shoulder in a game vs my team, the NY Giants. He looked like he was gonna be done for the year. Instead, he went back into the game, and rushed for over 200 freaking yards. After the game, when he was asked how he did it, he said "It hurt worse than anything I've ever felt in my life when we were standing around in the huddle, but as soon as the ball was snapped, the pain was gone and I felt more focused than I ever have before". 

I'm not trying to argue with you man, as it's an awfully silly thing to argue about. Just saying there are plenty of documented cases of athletes suffering horrible injuries, but finishing the game because their adrenaline was pumping so hard. Shit Rondo completely destroyed his elbow a few years ago in a game, and continue playing on it. 

All of this is to say: I think Zayns selling was awesome, and I don't have a problem with the few bursts he had. This is wrestling after all, where the idea that a man in a fight would whip another man into the ropes is accepted. What makes good "wrestling sense" doesn't always equal making sense in real life.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO 

That's how many NO's I wanna give the next 3 matches I have to watch from NWO 03 .


----------



## DDMac (Feb 20, 2005)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Actually adrenaline is a lot like that.
> 
> In the mid 1990s, Emmit Smith separated/dislocated/broke his shoulder in a game vs my team, the NY Giants. He looked like he was gonna be done for the year. Instead, he went back into the game, and rushed for over 200 freaking yards. After the game, when he was asked how he did it, he said "It hurt worse than anything I've ever felt in my life when we were standing around in the huddle, but as soon as the ball was snapped, the pain was gone and I felt more focused than I ever have before".


This is a freak occurrence by the toughest motherfucker I've ever seen play (not the best though; he was great, but benefited greatly from the greatest offense line of the 90s, along with Aikman and Irvin.) Still, 99 out of 100 times, he ain't playing at the same level.

But...



> All of this is to say: I think Zayns selling was awesome, and I don't have a problem with the few bursts he had. This is wrestling after all, where the idea that a man in a fight would whip another man into the ropes is accepted. *What makes good "wrestling sense" doesn't always equal making sense in real life.*


This. Pretty much. I agree.

(Y)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DDMac said:


> This is a freak occurrence by the toughest motherfucker I've ever seen play (not the best though; he was great, but benefited greatly from the greatest offense line of the 90s, along with Aikman and Irvin.) Still, 99 out of 100 times, he ain't playing at the same level.
> 
> But...
> 
> ...



Anyone that has watched football enough KNOWS Barry Sanders is the greatest back ever, there isn't really a competition there.


Just watched Vader/Sting Starrcade 1992 for the first time in ages. Wow this was way better than I remembered. Say what you want about Sting, but no one can deny he had GREAT "fire" in his come backs. Vader was just mauling poor Stinger, nasty clubbing blows to the body and punches to the head that were so hard they knocked Sting's face paint right off. We all know Vader works one of the better control segments in wrestling history, but what makes him the best super heavyweight ever IMO is ho well he bumps and sells for the face on their come backs. He let's guys half his size like Flair and Sting pound on him and toss him around, adding to their aura. I do think he let people body slam him a bit to often, but otherwise he was just about as good a monster as you could ever want.

****1/4 for the match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Go watch Muta/Chono and tell us your thoughts.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Go watch Muta/Chono and tell us your thoughts.



That's on the same Starrcade 1992 card right? I'll watch it as soon as I get home, I'm going out to play golf with a few friends right meow.

Never ever seen a Chono match, and I've only seen maybe 2-3 Muta matches and I wasn't overly impressed.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Wearing my Brock shirt so might go through some of his destruction later :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*No Way Out 2003*

How odd... NO video package before the PPV. Guess they didn't want people to know what the main event was :lmao.


*Chris Jericho Vs Jeff Hardy*

First time WWE have come to Montreal since that little incident back in 1997 (back on PPV, at least, no idea if they did TV since).

Jericho is Canadian and... gets booed .

Huh, looks like someone threw paint on Jeff before he came out. Get a fucking shower ya bum.

Jericho tries to wrestle at the start of this match, but Jeff is all "fuck this, someone threw paint on me before the match and I look like a tit" and decides to throw bunches at Jericho instead.

Fans seem to have realised Jericho is Canadian now and are chanting for him . A little slow eh?

:mark: Jericho taking a Sgt Slaugter-esque turnbuckle bump :mark:.

Hardy starts building momentum with his jumpy flippy shit, until Jericho avoids that barricade spot Jeff likes to do and follows it up with the WORST flapjack ever into the steel steps. Jeff would have gotten more height if he stood on his tippy toes because the lazy shit barely jumped here.

:lmao at both guys throwing out some sloppy shit. You know that jawbreaker move Jeff like to do? Well he kinda mixed that up with a monkey flip which resulted in a shit looking THING. Then Jericho comes back with the worst enziguri attempt I've ever seen.

Seems that while planning this match out backstage, Jericho knew he'd get a babyface reaction from the Canadian crowd, but Jeff refused to be the heel of the match... which results in neither man being heel, no control segment from anyone which leaves us with a bunch of MOVES~! and they don't even manage that properly .

SWANTON~! MISS~! ACT LIKE IT HIT ANYWAY~!

:lmao

This is just one seemingly long (feels like it lasts forever) MOVES~! fest with a bunch of near falls. Not my cup of tea. Neither is tea, actually. Fuck tea. Tastes like... well tea, which is the problem.

:lmao HBK shows up to save Jeff as Jericho keeps the Walls locked in, and the fans absolutely SHIT on him. And then cheer the fuck out of him when he takes out both Jericho and Christian .

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Rob Van Dam & Kane Vs William Regal & Lance Storm - World Tag Team Championship Match*

Fun opening exchange between RVD and Storm, with RVD throwing shit at Storm and Storm countering and avoiding as much as he can until he gets kicked in the face .

Then Regal comes in and... gets more of the same .

KANE SLAMS REGALS and... Regal is FUCKED UP. Knocked out for a few moments + concussion which puts him out of action for a while and kills the big tag match for WM .

Storm takes over for a while, but Regal being the MAN he is still continues the match!

HALF NELSON SUPLEX :mark: :mark: :mark:.

:mark: @ Storm mounting RVD and just battering his face.

"WE WANT REGAL" chants :mark:.

:mark: at Regal's awesome bump off a big boot by Kane. Guy is still better concussed than most people.

Kane's mask gets fucked up and he can't see. RVD gets pushed into him and he thinks its Regal or Storm. CHOKESLAM~! RVD gets pinned. Ha.

Solid match despite what happened to Regal!

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Billy Kidman Vs Matt Hardy - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match*

Matt had to drop 10 lbs in 2 weeks in order to challenge for the title .

MATT IS ANNOYED BY SNOW & ICE~!

MATT TAKES HOT TEA WITH MILK & SWEETENER~!

I find it funny that Cole and Tazz are playing up on the whole "Matt isn't a normal CW" claiming he's not used to this style and shit. Uhhh... did they forget about his entire career prior to this match? You know, when he and his brother Jeff would fly around like CW's and wrestle CW's and shit as well as heavyweights? If anything Matt was always more of a CW than a HW :lmao.

Matt grounds Kidman. And uhhh... he does holds on the ground to make sure he keeps him grounded. And uhhh... Kidman is grounded by Matt's ground offence.

Fuck me this match is a whole load of nothing. Matt applies holds on the floor while using about 6 Side Effects. Kidman makes a couple of comebacks that aren't exactly inspiring. Shannon Moore might as well have stayed in the back.

Twist of Fate from the ropes and Matt wins the CW title. Thankfully he'd go on to REY MYSTERIO and have some great matches.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


OH NOES EDGE IS DEAD OR SOMETHING BACKSTAGE AKA HIS NECK IS FUCKED AND HE'S BUGGERING OFF FOR OVER A YEAR.


*The Undertaker Vs The Big Show*

:mark: these two had some fucking CLASSICS in 2008 and while I've never enjoyed this as much as some other people, I am hoping for something good and maybe for me to like it more this time around.

FOUR WORDS: SHUT UP AND FIGHT!!!

:mark: Undertaker does his over the ropes bump and takes the fight right to Big Show on the outside, throwing those BIG SOUP BONES right in Show's face.

Undertaker has returned after being thrown off the stage by Show in October, and he's a "new" Undertaker now as Tazz explains on commentary. He's now starting to use MMA moves and holds and is having to adapt to the new styles of young wrestlers coming up. We see Undertaker counter the power of Show by using speed and his unique offence and I'm :mark: the entire time lol.

WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION TO UNDERTAKER... WITH A STEEL CHAIR IN FRONT OF HIS FACE~! But the WMD wouldn't be established until 2008 so Undertaker can continue wrestling .

:mark: those fucking shots to Show's head :mark:. Show just stands there out of it while Undertaker caves his fucking FACE in :mark:.

Love Undertaker's "out of it" selling, and it's done wonderful here are Show repeatedly headbutts the fuck out of him, busting him open! Arn Vs DICK Vs Undertaker in a "sell a shot to the head" match would be the greatest thing in the history of everything ever.

:mark: at Undertaker's comeback with those fucking strikes :mark:. Especially when he just fucking charges head on at Show and blasts him in the face with a running punch. 

Show is doing a great job cutting Undertaker off with such simple moves like a punch of his own or a headbutt. Being as big as he is, even doing it to UNDERTAKER looks legit, and Undertaker's selling of everything just puts it over that much more.

LOW BLOW~! DDT~!

:lmao Undertaker signals for a Last Ride. Like that's gonna happen from a non corner position .

Meanwhile Big Show's giant red underwear is on display as his ring gear slowly moves up his leg .

TAKIN' CARE OF BUSINESS~! But Heyman senses Show is in trouble and distracts 'Taker on the apron.

A-TRAIN~!

DEAD MAN DIVE TO A-TRAIN AND HEYMAN :mark: :mark: :mark:.

Undertaker is on fucking FIRE now and Big Show is GONNA PAY :mark:.

CHOKESLAM BY BIG SHOW~!

PIN COUNTERED INTO A TRIANGLE CHOKE~! THAT MMA OFFENCE COMING INTO PLAY :mark:.

BIG SHOW GETS CHOKED OUT!!! UNDERTAKER WINS!!!

:mark: How on earth have I never been a big fan of this in the part? This fucking ROCKS (THE DRAGON)! Right fucking up there with their 08 matches tbh.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


Bischoff thinks his match with Austin later will be easy as he can make it No DQ and have tons of help. Then Vince McMahon shows up and says nobody can interfere, and if they do they'll be fired :lmao.


*Kurt Angle, Shelton Benjamin & Charlie Hass Vs Brock Lesnar & Chris Benoit - Handicap Match*

So Edge is off for surgery, leaving Benoit and Lesnar to face 3 men. The sheer TALENT in this match makes it look :mark: on paper, but honestly I've always thought it absolutely SUCKED. I changed my mind on the previous match, maybe I can end up loving this one too?

BROCK looks like a fucking beast early on, dominating Team Angle then begging to get his hands on Angle only to be double and triple teamed and STILL getting up and fighting back.

We get a preview of Lesnar/Angle WM match with Angle applying a sleeper hold and wrapping his legs around Lesnar to both ground him and wear him down even more. Seems out of place in a tag match tbh, especially with how long it lasts.

BENOIT HOT TAG :mark:. Comes in and suplexes bitches left, right and centre :mark:.

The numbers advantage comes into play allowing Team Angle to regain control and now Benoit has to play FIP.

:lmao the fuck is Lesnar doing on the apron? He's rubbing his neck and roaring or something :lmao.

BOOOOORING control segment.

LESNAR HOT TAG :mark:. Comes in and suplexes bitches left, right and centre :mark:. Huh, that sounds familiar...

Multiple Crossface/Ankle Lock counters... which is retarded because Benoit isn't even the legal and and I don't even think Angle is? 

Uhhh ok Hass taps out. Apparently he was the legal man and so was Benoit... even though Lesnar just came in off the hot tag.

Anyway, this is fucking SHIT. Seriously.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Triple H Vs Scott Steiner - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Oh god it just gets worse. And there is still the god awful main event to come :|. And Austin/Bischoff too :|.

Their RR match was SO FUCKING BAD... they booked it again a month later. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THEM?!?!

*3 days later*

Ok I suppose I should watch this match now .

:lmao the fans are booing Steiner and cheering HHH :lmao. Absolutely NOT what this match needed :lmao. Was gonna be awful on its own, but a crowd not reacting the way they would be expected to = match fucked up .

I like how HHH's leg is taped up, giving Steiner an area to focus on. It was like they watched their RR match back (I fucking hope they did, fans were tortured by it so they should too) and realised that Steiner couldn't do anything beyond SUPLEXES, so creating a leg injury for him to attack meant he had something else to do .

:lmao the MOMENT I finished writing that last sentence... Steiner hit a suplex :lmao.

Scotty applies a Figure Four, but it just doesn't look right when he does it... so Flair pokes his eyes behind the referee's back to prevent such a thing from continuing. I guess if he did that to Steiner for making the Figure Four look bad, he should probably torture and eventually kill The Miz for what he did to the hold...

:lmao the fans who moments ago were cheering HHH are now chanting BORING because HHH is in control :lmao.

:lmao Steiner builds momentum and what does he do? Leg work again? Nah. SUPLEXES!!!

:lmao Steiner just fucking RUNS into HHH'd boot and I'm 99.9% certain he got KNOCKED OUT. HHH goes for a cover and tries to use the ropes, ref catches him and they argue and shove each other for about a minute while Steiner recovers .

MOAR SUPLEXES :lmao.

Orton and Batista show up and get destroyed.

:mark: at Orton being thrown over the ropes and just fucking DIVING onto Batista. Best thing about this match so far.

WHC to the face of Steiner... he kicks out, fans boo :lmao.

PEDIGREE. Yes! It's fucking OVER.

Awful. Awful. Awful. Awful.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Steve Austin Vs Eric Bischoff*

GTFO.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Hulk Hogan Vs The Rock*



Their WM match is great. Despite the people involved, the age of Hogan when it happened etc... it managed to be GREAT. So a re-match sounds like a good idea, right?

Unless something drastically changes this time around, I'm gonna say this is fucking awful. Steiner/HHH awful. But it's the main event for the show so I'm gonna endure it.

:lmao nothing bust stalling + punches for 5 minutes and then... ROCK BOTTOM :lmao. 5 minutes in and we get a fucking finisher. For a 2 count .

Huh, using a weight lifting belt on your opponent is perfectly legal apparently. Why more people don't bring one to the ring to aid them makes no sense to me. IT'S LEGAL APPARENTLY. 

More nothingness and then SHARPSHOOTER IN MONTREAL.

STEEL CHAIR TO THE ROCK. And the referee... doesn't give a shit :lmao.

Oh a People's Elbow now. Two in a row. HOGAN NO SELLS :lmao.

LEG DROP.

Apparently Hogan can kick out of a Rock Bottom in 5 minutes, then 2 Elbows in a row... but Rock needs Vince to turn the lights out after ONE Leg Drop .

Oh and the referee is down. The brand new ref from Montreal that we've never seen before tonight. That isn't odd.

Ref hands Rock a steel chair, Rock smashes it over Hogan.

Rock Bottom. Done.

Wow. This is just wow. BAD AS FUCK. Rock/Hogan II is like Rock/Cena II. Finishers with FUCK ALL in between. Terrible.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 4*​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS said:


> :mark: awesome, and I'm off work today too


Here we go. 

*Randy Savage vs Ric Flair (New Japan Pro Wrestling - 16/7/96)*

x1ipszf


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Turned on WWE Network to see REGAL :mark:

Is BATB 94 any good btw?


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

3MB vs Shield vs RA vs RybAxel from SD was tons of fun. Rollins and Ambrose worked really good together. Gimmie Real Americans vs Rollins and Ambrose please.

Loved the main event. Harper busting out a hurricanrana = :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao I'm watching the 3/20/2000 edition of RAW that was in Chicago, and in the opening match, it sounds like the crowd is chanting "CM PUNK"...in 2000! :lol

How does Harper/Cena compare to Rollins/Cena? Rowan/Cena was bad.

EDIT: :lol Tori sells moves better than Stone Cold Steve Austin does.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I was just watching teh Hulk set on netflix to see what was on it and the second match was Nick Bockwinkel vs Hogan AWA 4-24-83

This was fucking awesome, total surprise and if you can find it, watch it, awesome from start to finish.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> I was just watching teh Hulk set on netflix to see what was on it and the second match was Nick Bockwinkel vs Hogan AWA 4-24-83
> 
> This was fucking awesome, total surprise and if you can find it, watch it, awesome from start to finish.


Really? I will have to watch that, sounds intriguing. Bockwinkle was an awesome wrestler, I really have yet to see a match of his that I don't enjoy.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ladies and gentlemen, Viscera carried twelve other men to a watchable match at Wrestlemania 2000. Unfortunately, 2000 has not been very good so far outside of the same three people that were good in 1999 + guys named Chris. Bless the world for Al Snow, The Rock, and Mick Foley. The build-up to Wrestlemania 2000 might be the worst ever for a 21st century Wrestlemania. The highlight of it was The Rock burying the shitty buildup in a promo :lol.

But yes, Viscera carrying 12 people to a good match. Almost as impressive as Daniel Bryan doing the same at Summerslam 2010, but with one more person.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, Viscera carried twelve other men to a watchable match at Wrestlemania 2000. Unfortunately, 2000 has not been very good so far outside of the same three people that were good in 1999 + guys named Chris. Bless the world for Al Snow, The Rock, and Mick Foley. The build-up to Wrestlemania 2000 might be the worst ever for a 21st century Wrestlemania. The highlight of it was The Rock burying the shitty buildup in a promo :lol.
> 
> But yes, Viscera carrying 12 people to a good match. Almost as impressive as Daniel Bryan doing the same at Summerslam 2010, but with one more person.


WWF didn't plan on Undertaker and Austin being out. Hurt that WrestleMania big time.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

KingLobos said:


> WWF didn't plan on Undertaker and Austin being out. Hurt that WrestleMania big time.


What never made sense to me even as a kid is how the main event wasn't about The Rock getting his big Mania moment. Instead it was another dumb McMahon family drama. For goodness sakes, I've seen better buildups for matches on Main Event! And the fact that they announced all of the matches basically a week before the show made Wrestlemania feel more like Battleground. Maybe even worse.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal glad you gave Taker vs Show from NWO credit. iirc you weren't as high on it once before and it baffled me. I actually liked the first half of that show, but FAR and away Taker & Show stole the night by having the only match worth going out of your way to see. IE great, etc.



PGSucks said:


> Is BATB 94 any good btw?


Great show.



funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao I'm watching the 3/20/2000 edition of RAW that was in Chicago, and in the opening match, it sounds like the crowd is chanting "CM PUNK"...in 2000! :lol
> 
> How does Harper/Cena compare to Rollins/Cena? Rowan/Cena was bad.


Rowan vs Cena went three minutes...



funnyfaces1 said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, Viscera carried twelve other men to a watchable match at Wrestlemania 2000. Unfortunately, 2000 has not been very good so far outside of the same three people that were good in 1999 + guys named Chris. Bless the world for Al Snow, The Rock, and Mick Foley. The build-up to Wrestlemania 2000 might be the worst ever for a 21st century Wrestlemania. The highlight of it was The Rock burying the shitty buildup in a promo :lol.
> 
> But yes, Viscera carrying 12 people to a good match. Almost as impressive as Daniel Bryan doing the same at Summerslam 2010, but with one more person.


The guys named Chris part better not include that awful three way match from WM 16. TV & subsequently at Backlash = YES. But not at WM.

The Viscera carried them claim doesn't make sense. He had his long patch of dominance, but once it was over he was out of the second half of the match. I love the man, but...what are you getting at?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The second half of that hardcore battle royal was so boring. Anything and everything good in that match was because of Viscera. And that triple threat match was terrible. We can agree on that. Can't really say anything positive about Rowan/Cena either. Bah, Erick Rowan still has a lot to learn. But yes, Viscera going crazy was great. Hardcore Holly existing was not. Kai En Tai leaving was not. The Headbangers existing in 2000 was certainly not.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Viscera being a boss is one thing, but idk, the term "carried" is thrown around a bit too much. Suppose that's what my point behind all of this is. The Danielson claim about the 2010 match is one I highly disagree w/too. He was hardly even in the match for it compute. Cesaro vs Kofi & Hart vs Smith, yeah, now those work. b/c it's 100% legit.

My point about Rowan vs Cena wasn't that it was good. b/c it wasn't. but I wouldn't dub it as bad b/c it was essentially made to be a non-match. It started during the break, there was a bearhug, and then it ended in DQ. Nothing more than the fuel the fire in a segment moment rather than a match. If they have a rematch and it's trash, then so be it. Remains to be seen.

Bob Holly winning that hardcore championship match on a botch. WM 16, ladies and gentlemen. Lame duck event.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

You both liked the Benoit/Jericho match at Backlash 2000? I really wasn't a fan tbh, like they were out there doing moves, and not even any that were particularly impressive. Just seemed like 2 guys with zero steam going through the motions. Not their fault that the crowd was completely asleep during it, as it wasn't like they were BAD or anything. Just nothing I was particularly fond of. Their JD match was better, the Summerslam match was MUCH better, and the Royal Rumble match was the best singles match of both guys career.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Backlash match is great. SummerSlam 2/3 falls match sucks.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Backlash match is great. SummerSlam 2/3 falls match sucks.


Nope.

How in the world is Backlash better? There wasn't any substance to it. I watched all 4 of those matches in a row last weekend and you can easily see they get progressively better and better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c it wasn't sliced down into crummy sections like SummerSlam. Rushed for I'm guessing time, although I'm not sure why. Second fall was garbage while the shoulder work was done. It leads to Jericho randomly getting the Walls of Jericho on and he makes Benoit submit after the entire fall was Jericho getting his shoulder destroyed. Then despite Jericho bringing it back to light off a few moves in the third fall, Benoit still cheats to beat him. Ugh.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I honestly do not remember anything else being good or making sense about the Summerslam 2010 match besides everything involving Daniel Bryan. "Carryjob" admittedly is a hyperbole, but my goodness, both Viscera and Bryan in those respective matches made sure that they didn't outright suck. Ok, maybe Ryback wasn't bad in the Summerslam 2010 match. But nobody else was even remotely good. And that three minute match consisted of Cena no-selling a leg injury and winning by doing nothing while Rowan makes two and a half minutes feel like ten. Couldn't have gone worse.

Cal said that the Summerslam match did not hold up at all, so I'm interested to see how it goes. I recall loving the Backlash match as well as a match on Smackdown soon after.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Did you really question why Cena won off a fluke pin on RAW? When it's a total nothing moment that's happened a ton of times prior. Hell, the booking department made it one better by not having Cena randomly bust out the FU and win that way. At least Rowan was outsmarted by someone who's clearly defined to be smarter & more experienced. Rowan's work in the match was fine. He did what he should have & always does. No selling? wait, someone remembered and expected that leg injury to matter the next week? Oh.

It was nothing to even speak about. Pardon the fact Rowan looked fine. He's the guy who could only use that minor moment for anything effective and he did.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Harper vs. Cena IMO was good considering the time it had. Not sure why the main event got 5 minutes and yet they replayed pretty much the entire beatdown of Daniel Bryan from HHH at the beginning of the show. Ah well, maybe they'll have a rematch on RAW.

And I actually watched the 7 on 7 from SummerSlam 2010 today. Michael Cole was insufferable in any match involving Bryan or Miz, and this match had Bryan and sort of involved Miz. Ugh. I thought Jericho was good in it BTW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Harper only went five minutes? I shouldn't be too surprised. Cena does have the hurt groin. I'd almost prefer him not to work until WM - TV that is, he'll never stop house shows - as he can try and save himself for the match vs Bray at WM.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Even Michael Cole remembered the injury. And the roll up looked bad too. It just wasn't a night of wrestling for either man.

Cole was so annoying during that feud, but it was still the feud of the year. Elevated that US title like crazy.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That SummerSlam '10 7 on 7 was pretty damn good imo - except for the ending, which was just... oh, Jesus Christ, I can't even describe it. Talk about an absolute storyline crasher. Still, liked how Barrett, Gabriel and The Artist Futurely Known As Ryback got to look legit in there with those guys, the whole Miz/Bryan situation was handled quite well (despite the Cole factor), and there was some good character work in-between (Jericho and Edge in e.g.).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thought i'd stick this gem on my DM Channel:

*Mick Foley, Edge, & Lita vs Terry Funk, Tommy Dreamer, & Beulah McGillicuty - ECW One Night Stand 2006*

'Live PPV Version'.

x1itba1


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: Cody loves Jericho/Benoit Backlash and not SS :mark:. He's not ALL bad, folks! 

And SS didn't "not hold up" for me, because I always thought it sucked and technically it DID hold up because it still sucked.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:mark:

No other comment will be made to make sure this touching moment goes untarnished.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You should probably sig it, nicest thing I've ever said about you... .

Finally, finally got a top 10 list of opponents for Undertaker's STREAK for that project I'm doing... but fuck me, trying to rank them in near impossible :lmao. Top 4 were easy, but the other 6? :|


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll think about it. :hayley4

Is that by match(es) or by their overall careers? Probably the former, but I'm not quite sure what your project has in store w/needing to rank the opponents.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao I'm watching the 3/20/2000 edition of RAW that was in Chicago, and in the opening match, it sounds like the crowd is chanting "CM PUNK"...in 2000! :lol
> 
> How does Harper/Cena compare to Rollins/Cena? Rowan/Cena was bad.
> 
> EDIT: :lol Tori sells moves better than Stone Cold Steve Austin does.


Honestly I wouldn't doubt it if they chanted for Punk in 2000, man is that damn talented that he can bend the rules of space and time, are you THAT surprised?

I asked my friend for a HHH match to watch and he said either HHH-Edge in Japan or HHH/Flair vs Masters/Carlito from homecoming. Any suggestions on obscure matches that I might not have seen yet?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> I'll think about it. :hayley4
> 
> Is that by match(es) or by their overall careers? Probably the former, but I'm not quite sure what your project has in store w/needing to rank the opponents.


That's not what I'm doing, I'm putting together a list of top 10 Streak opponents that haven't happened. I forget who brought it up the other day, but he asked if he would use some kind of time machine thingy and bring anyone from any time to face Undertaker at WM at any time, who would it be and from when.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Go watch HHH/Rikishi from the first week of Smackdown in 2000 and HHH/Big Show at the end of 1999.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> That's not what I'm doing, I'm putting together a list of top 10 Streak opponents that haven't happened. I forget who brought it up the other day, but he asked if he would use some kind of time machine thingy and bring anyone from any time to face Undertaker at WM at any time, who would it be and from when.



That would be me, boss. I decided that 1989, middle aged and crazy, Terry f'in Funk would be the guy to have the greatest Streak Match ever. I can just imagine the promos :mark:

"Undertaker, you bastard, I'm gonna kill you you egg sucking dog, you're nothing but a banana nosed jerk"


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cjack did you ever watch the Hogan/Bockwinkel match I pimped last night?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That would be me, boss. I decided that 1989, middle aged and crazy, Terry f'in Funk would be the guy to have the greatest Streak Match ever. I can just imagine the promos :mark:
> 
> "Undertaker, you bastard, I'm gonna kill you you egg sucking dog, you're nothing but a banana nosed jerk"


Ha, 89 FUNK is also on my list .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Honestly I wouldn't doubt it if they chanted for Punk in 2000, man is that damn talented that he can bend the rules of space and time, are you THAT surprised?
> 
> I asked my friend for a HHH match to watch and he said either HHH-Edge in Japan or HHH/Flair vs Masters/Carlito from homecoming. Any suggestions on obscure matches that I might not have seen yet?


Well, i was going to upload a Benoit/HHH House Show match from '04 soon.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> That's not what I'm doing, I'm putting together a list of top 10 Streak opponents that haven't happened. I forget who brought it up the other day, but he asked if he would use some kind of time machine thingy and bring anyone from any time to face Undertaker at WM at any time, who would it be and from when.


Fun.

I remember when I made up some kind of random fantasy mega PPV card eight years or so ago, I instantly booked Undertaker vs Misawa. Shocked at myself for picking Misawa if I was going to take a dip into the Japanese pool, b/c I prefer a good bit over him, but that's what it was. Yeah, only ten is kind of brutal when you stop and ponder all the scenarios. And I'm only in the realm of Japan still as I'm thinking...

my goodness.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought I was crazy for having a decent number of people over Misawa. Glad to know that I may not be that crazy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I get his praise, but he's never been a favorite. Although his surly veteran patch when he still was able to offer something great was rad. Talking the early NOAH days stuff. And the terrific match vs Morishima w/the championship change. No getting past those.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> I get his praise, but he's never been a favorite. Although his surly veteran patch when he still was able to offer something great was rad. Talking the early NOAH days stuff. And the terrific match vs Morishima w/the championship change. No getting past those.



I watched that Shima/Misawa match a few months ago, you pimped it as a match with an amazing Tiger Bomb (I had been talking about how that's one of the coolest moves). Excellent stuff, I have only seen about 6-7 Misawa matches, they've all been great, but that Shima match (I think it was in like 2006?) was my favorite of the bunch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The one I referred to vs Morishima was in 2008, but no doubt the 2006 match is top notch too. Tiger Bomb spot is ludicrous.

I trust you've seen his classics w/Vader, yes? Also, there's this bad boy out there:






This is also a neat segway to say WATCH EVERYTHING KAWADA HAS.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Starrcade 1987

*Sting, Gorgeous Jimmy Garvin, and Michael Hayes vs. Eddie Gilbert, Rick Steiner, and Larry Zbyszko*
Nothing gets the crowd more excited for a show than a time limit draw to open up the show. The heels controlled a lot of the match with a 2 control segments on different guys. I can’t say I was a huge fan of their offense though. I did like that the match did feel like it was constantly on the brink of explosion, and I was glad that the match did eventually explode. I think I would prefer a match where the heels isolate one face for an amazing hot tag instead of isolating 2 different faces for 2 mild hot tags. It had some good parts but it was mostly a somewhat uninteresting 15 minutes.
****


_UWF Heavyweight Championship_
*Barry Windham vs. Steve Williams(c)*
The commentators stressed that going into the match that these guys were close friends and it did end up having a huge impact on the match. Windham wouldn’t take any shortcuts and he showed Williams a lot of courtesies during the match. At one point they were outside the ring and Windham didn’t decide to start throwing punches he instead stopped and let Williams get back in the ring before he got back in himself. There was another spot where Williams tried to leapfrog Windham and ending basically jumping and smashing his balls into Windham’s head. Windham didn’t attack and gave him all the time he needed to recover. Once he was back up Windham soon launched himself over the top rope and was injured. Williams did not show him the same courtesy as he rolled him up for the win as soon as the match was started. 

I liked what they did at the end when I was able to put it all together and realize they told a solid story. However, a good portion of the match was very slow as it was Windham not pressing the offensive when he had the chance and letting Williams recover. I also liked that what Williams did wasn’t cheating or even heelish it was just very different than the way Windham was acting. I just wish the match itself had been more enjoyable. I didn’t like most of it but then at the end when I realized what they did I liked it. A satisfying ending doesn’t make up for a boring match though. The fans also hated the match and crowds on this time usually react very well to everything.
**¾ *


_Scaffold Match:_
*The Midnight Express w/Jim Cornette and Big Bubba vs. The Rock n’ Roll Express*
I actually enjoyed the Scaffold match that these teams had the year before. I can’t say I felt the same way about this. Yeah, there is still a fear factor seeing how high up they are and how narrow it is but after seeing one of these I really feel like it becomes a lot less scary to watch. I loved the beginning where Bubba jumped Morton which left Gibson alone up on the scaffold but it didn’t really lead to much. The things I liked ended there. Morton got up in a few seconds, took out Bubba as he was climbing and then made it the top with Cornette’s tennis racket. 

How shitty does a tennis racket look when used as a weapon? Seriously it looks so bad when you use it as a weapon and they were so soft with an already soft weapon. The weapon use annoyed me but they just kept using it over and over and it looked terrible every single time. The big bumps were unimpressive as well and there really wasn’t much suspense. I don’t think I ever felt like the Midnight Express was going to win a match; to the point where I never thought even a single member of the Rock n’ Roll Express was going to take a fall.
**½ *


_TV Unification Match:_
*Nikita Koloff vs. Terry Taylor w/Eddie Gilbert*
I thought this was really really bad. They had plenty of time but it was just executed so poorly. Koloff and Taylor both spent a lot of time working the arm of the other. They spent so much time working the arm yet they spent very little time selling the arm. Taylor’s selling was good when Koloff was working it but as soon as he stopped targeting it Taylor stopped selling it. Koloff was a little but he just sort of sold things in a very mediocre fashion for a longer period of time while Taylor sold well for a short period of time and the no sold. Naturally all of the arm work led to nothing that had any impact on the match. Throw in a stream on the WWE Network that was skipping 10 second intervals regularly and this was a nightmare to watch.
*¾* *


_NWA Tag Team Championship Match:_
*The Road Warriors w/Paul Ellering vs. Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard w/JJ Dillon*
This was fantastic and this is coming from someone that doesn’t have that high of an opinion of the Road Warriors. The beginning of the match featured the Horsemen getting their asses kicked for almost 10 minutes. It was great to watch the guy in the ring get beat up but what I really loved was the body language of the guy on the apron. They looked confused, and just dejected. It was hilarious to watch. The best moment of the match had to be when Arn tagged in and once he realized what he was doing he looked like someone that had done something incredibly stupid. The Horsemen tried to cheat to get an advantage but time and time again it was not effective at all.

They eventually took some control of the match when they took out Hawk’s knee but even when they were in control you knew that they were barely hanging on to that control. Hawk sold well despite but he never really had to do much as he was on his back for a lot of the control segment. When he moved it looked like he was hurt so that’s really all I needed to say. I wish the finish had been more satisfying than what it was. If you watch this you should just skip to the next match after the 3 count and pretend that nothing else happens. Really entertaining match anyway, the Road Warriors did there schtick well enough but the Horsemen played off that so well that they made this great. 
****¾ *


_Cage Match for the United States Championship_
*Lex Luger(c) w/JJ Dillon vs. Dusty Rhodes*
I didn’t think they were going to mesh well when I saw the match as happening and they met my expectations. This was slow and boring. Heel Luger doesn’t work for me when he’s in the ring with someone that can’t match him in anything. Dusty works as a face when he can kick a bunch of ass early on and with the way Luger was protected that wasn’t an option. They just kept things slow and did a bunch of really long armbars. I had a really hard time paying attention so maybe I’m missing something here but this is what I got out of the match. The heel/face dynamic was there and Dusty’s comebacks were still fun to watch. The ending was also pretty exciting. There was enough here to make it bearable and parts were enjoyable. There just wasn’t enough good stuff to make this enjoyable.
****



_Cage Match for the NWA Championship_
*Ron Garvin(c) vs. Ric Flair*
You’ve got to love the Chicago crowd, booing the face champion since 1987… Flair was clearly the heel in this match and there was an audible “Garvin sucks!” chant and Flair was generally cheered the entire time. The match itself was pretty fun as they mostly just beat the hell out of each other. It wasn’t the normal Flair match because he was sort of able to hang with his opponent. He still cheated and used dirty tactics when he had the chance but he wasn’t totally overmatched the entire time either. I also thought the finishing stretch was a lot of fun and it created a feel good moment that was certainly not intended. It wasn’t a great match, it was more of enjoyable slugfest is anything. They worked stiffer than I was expecting. While I don’t think Flair can have a great match with everyone it does seem like he is capable of having at least a pretty good match with just about anyone.
***¾ *​
I can’t say that this was a very good show. It was short at least but the main events didn’t deliver and the undercard was very underwhelming. The great tag title match was really the main redeeming factor about this show.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> This is also a neat segway to say WATCH EVERYTHING KAWADA HAS.


Been trying to watch more Japan stuff (from the past), and Kawada is one of the guys i would like to watch more of tbh, i do have a massive Kawada comp to help me at least.  And i keep meaning to fully watch the Kawada vs Misawa comp i have, along with Misawa vs Kobashi and Kawada vs Kobashi.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fucks sake Cody, why did you have to bring up a Japanese wrestler to face 'Taker? Now I've gotta fucking add TENRYU to my list and I've already got 10 so I've gotta cut someone, and I already cut someone earlier. DAMMIT CODY!!!

Been a while since I've seen Starrcade 87 but I remember the scaffold and NWA title matches being good (cage match great even, unless I'm confusing it with another? I could be. Hell might even be confusing the scaffolding match with something else :lmao). Still a better show than WM III from the same year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> Been trying to watch more Japan stuff (from the past), and Kawada is one of the guys i would like to watch more of tbh, i do have a massive Kawada comp to help me at least.  And i keep meaning to fully watch the Kawada vs Misawa comp i have, along with Misawa vs Kobashi and Kawada vs Kobashi.


Make a day or two out of it and WATCH. Kawada is the ultra boss. Set would be killer if it somehow got his match vs Foley on it.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Fucks sake Cody, why did you have to bring up a Japanese wrestler to face 'Taker? Now I've gotta fucking add TENRYU to my list and I've already got 10 so I've gotta cut someone, and I already cut someone earlier. DAMMIT CODY!!!
> 
> Been a while since I've seen Starrcade 87 but I remember the scaffold and NWA title matches being good (cage match great even, unless I'm confusing it with another? I could be. Hell might even be confusing the scaffolding match with something else :lmao). Still a better show than WM III from the same year.


Taker vs Tenryu oh SHIT. What about Muta? :troll

It would easily make my list.

I'm a fan of the Midnights vs RnR scaffold match. Good stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Great Muta Vs Mutoh in a buried alive loser leaves life match. That's the only match I want with him in.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Make a day or two out of it and WATCH. Kawada is the ultra boss. Set would be killer if it somehow got his match vs Foley on it.





Spoiler: Toshiaki Kawada Comp



A few months ago, a friend of mine asked if I could make him a Footloose comp. 
I knew I had plenty of footage but as I was preparing that set, 
I realized how much I freaking love Kawada! Well, 
then I was going to make a comp of just his All Japan run before the NOAH split. 
Then I thought I needed to pick up as much post-split footage as possible. 
In the end, I ended up with a 54 disc MONSTER. Anyway, 
Kawada is one of my favorite wrestlers of all time and the end result is my biggest comp ever.

DISC 1
Toshiaki Kawada & Tiger Mask vs. Kenta Kobayashi & Fumihiro Niikura (JIP) (4/6/85)
Toshiaki Kawada Genichiro Tenryu & Ashura Hara vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Kabuki & Ricky Fuyuki (8/21/87)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Masa Fuchi (9/15/87)
Toshiaki Kawada & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Yoshiaki Yatsu & Tiger Mask (1/23/88)
Footloose & Ashura Hara vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Great Kabuki & Takashi Ishikawa (3/11/88)
Footloose vs. Takashi Ishikawa & Mighty Inoue (4/21/88)
Footloose vs. Rock N Roll Express (5/24/88)
Toshiaki Kawada, Genichiro Tenryu & Ashura Hara vs. Tiger Mask, Isao Takagi & Shinichi Nakano (6/9/88)


DISC 2
Toshiaki Kawada & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Tiger Mask & Isao Takagi (7/16/88)
Footloose vs. Shunji Takano & Shinichi Nakano (7/19/88)
Footloose vs. Shunji Takano & Shinichi Nakano (9/15/88)
Toshiaki Kawada & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Yoshiaki Yatsu & John Tenta (10/3/88)
Toshiaki Kawada & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Yoshiaki Yatsu & Jumbo Tsuruta (12/10/88)
Toshiaki Kawada & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy (12/16/88)
Footloose vs. Joe & Dean Malenko (JIP) (1/5/89 TV)


DISC 3
Footloose vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Yoshiaki Yatsu (3/29/89)
Footloose vs. Dan Kroffat & Tom Zenk (4/18/89)
Footloose vs. Yoshiaki Yatsu & Great Kabuki (JIP) (5/14/89)
Footloose vs. Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas (6/5/89)
Toshiaki Kawada & Stan Hansen vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Yoshiaki Yatsu (6/8/89)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (7/1/89)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Shunji Takano (7/11/89)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Ricky Fuyuki (7/15/89)
Footloose vs. Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas (9/2/89)


DISC 4
Footloose vs. Yoshiaki Yatsu & Shunji Takano (9/30/89)
Toshiaki Kawada & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Shunji Takano (10/1/89)
Toshiaki Kawada & Stan Hansen vs. Yoshiaki Yatsu & Shunji Takano (10/11/89)
Footloose & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Kenta Kobashi & Kabuki (10/14/89)
Footloose vs. Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas (10/20/89)
Footloose & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Giant Baba, Shinichi Nakano & Kabuki (10/28/89)
Footloose vs. Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas (11/17/89)


DISC 5
Footloose & Yoshinari Ogawa vs. British Bulldogs & Kenta Kobashi (12/4/89)
Footloose vs. Giant Baba & Rusher Kimura (12/6/89)
Footloose & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Kabuki & Isao Takagi (1/2/90)
Footloose vs. The Fantastics (1/3/90)
Footloose & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Tiger Mask & Kabuki (1/11/90)
Toshiaki Kawada & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Kabuki & Isao Takagi (1/24/90)
Footloose vs. Kabuki & Mighty Inoue (1/28/90)


DISC 6
Footloose & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Kabuki & Mighty Inoue (2/24/90)
Footloose vs. Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas (3/2/90)
Toshiaki Kawada & Tiger Mask vs. Yoshiaki Yatsu & Ricky Fuyuki (5/14/90)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Kabuki (5/17/90)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (6/5/90)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (6/30/90)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Yoshiaki Yatsu (7/7/90)


DISC 7
Toshiaki Kawada, Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Kabuki & Mighty Inoue (JIP) (7/12/90)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Pete Roberts (7/90 TV Special)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Dr. Death (8/5/90 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada, Mitsuharu Misawa & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (8/18/90)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi & Johnny Ace (JIP) (9/29/90)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue (9/30/90)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Masa Fuchi (JIP) (10/4/90)


DISC 8
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Dr. Death & Terry Gordy (JIP) (10/7/90)
Toshiaki Kawada, Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (10/28/90 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Dory & Terry Funk (Handheld 11/19/90)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Dr. Death & Terry Gordy (12/90 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue (12/7/90)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Akira Taue (1/15/91)


DISC 9
Toshiaki Kawada, Mitsuharu Misawa & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (1/27/91)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Dr. Death & Terry Gordy (3/3/91 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (4/6/91)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Akira Taue (4/18/91)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Dr. Death (6/16/91 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Stan Hansen & Dan Spivey (6/27/91)


DISC 10
Toshiaki Kawada, Mitsuharu Misawa & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Rick Rude, Dr. Death & Terry Gordy (7/14/91)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Masa Fuchi (7/18/91)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Terry Gordy & Dr. Death (7/24/91)
Toshiaki Kawada, Mitsuharu Misawa & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa (8/11/91 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue (9/4/91)
Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue (9/27/91)


DISC 11
Toshiaki Kawada & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Yoshinari Ogawa (10/2/91)
Toshiaki Kawada, Mitsuharu Misawa & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa (10/10/91)
Toshiaki Kawada, Mitsuharu Misawa & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (10/15/91)
Toshiaki Kawada, Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (10/91)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (10/24/91)


DISC 12
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Stan Hansen & Dan Spivey (11/16/91)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (11/21/91)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue (11/29/91)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Terry Gordy & Dr. Death (12/6/91)
Toshiaki Kawada, Kenta Kobashi & Kenta Kobashi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Yoshinari Ogawa & Masa Fuchi (JIP) (1/12/92 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Masa Fuchi & Yoshinari Ogawa (1/19/92 TV)


DISC 13
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (1/26/92 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Stan Hansen & Joel Deaton (1/26/92)
Toshiaki Kawada, Kenta Kobashi & Kenta Kobashi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (2/2/92 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas (2/23/92 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada, Mitsuharu Misawa & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (3/1/92)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (3/22/92 TV)


DISC 14
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Akira Taue (4/5/92 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Stan Hansen (4/19/92 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada, Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (JIP) (5/24/92 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi vs. Stan Hansen & Johnny Ace (6/7/92 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Stan Hansen (6/21/92 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada, Mitsuharu Misawa & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa (8/23/92 TV)


DISC 15
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Dan Spivey (JIP) (9/6/92 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Akira Taue (9/27/92 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jun Akiyama & Yoshinari Ogawa (10/6/92)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (10/21/92)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi & Giant Baba (11/29/92 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada, Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Akira Taue, Jun Akiyama & Yoshinari Ogawa (Handheld 12/3/92)


DISC 16
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jun Akiyama & Akira Taue (12/4/92)
Toshiaki Kawada & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jun Akiyama & Akira Taue (JIP) (1/21/93)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Terry Gordy & Johnny Smith (JIP) (1/24/93)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jun Akiyama (JIP) (1/26/93)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Terry Gordy & Dr. Death (1/30/93)
Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue (1/31/93)
Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi vs. Stan Hansen & Rob Van Dam (JIP) (2/19/93)


DISC 17
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Stan Hansen (2/28/93)
Toshiaki Kawada, Mitsuharu Misawa & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Akira Taue, Jun Akiyama & Yoshinari Ogawa (3/3/93)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Dr. Death (3/25/93)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (3/27/93)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Akira Taue (JIP) (4/12/93)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (JIP) (4/14/93)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Davey Boy Smith (Handheld 4/16/93)


DISC 18
Toshiaki Kawada, Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Akira Taue, Masa Fuchi & Yoshinari Ogawa (4/21/93)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (5/13/93)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (5/14/93)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Terry Gordy & Dr. Death (5/20/93)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Dr. Death (JIP) (5/21/93)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa (6/1/93)



DISC 19
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (6/3/93)
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (7/2/93)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jun Akiyama (7/9/93)
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (7/12/93)
Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama (7/19/93)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Terry Gordy & Dr. Death (7/26/93)



DISC 20
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (7/29/93)
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Tsuyoshi Kikuchi & Jun Akiyama (8/20/93)
Toshiaki Kawada & Takao Omori vs. Jun Akiyama & Kenta Kobashi (9/17/93)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Takao Omori (9/24/93)
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa vs. Stan Hansen, Ted Dibiase & Kendall Windham (9/29/93)
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (10/2/93)


DISC 21
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Stan Hansen & Ted DiBiase (10/14/93)
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Tsuyoshi Kikuchi & Jun Akiyama (JIP) (10/17/93)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (10/23/93)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Stan Hansen & Giant Baba (JIP) (11/24/93)
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (Handheld 11/25/93)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Dr. Death & Big Bossman (JIP) (12/1/93)


DISC 22
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi (12/3/93)
Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi (1/7/94)
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Takao Omori vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (JIP) (1/20/94)
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Takao Omori vs. Stan Hansen, John Nord & Brian Costello (JIP) (1/94)
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Giant Baba (JIP) (1/29/94)
Toshiaki Kawada & Takao Omori vs. Kenta Kobashi & Satoru Asako (2/19/94)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Jun Akiyama & Takao Omori (3/5/94)


DISC 23
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Johnny Smith (3/19/94)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Stan Hansen (3/24/94)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Johnny Ace (3/27/94)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Dr. Death (JIP) (3/29/94)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jun Akiyama (4/1/94)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (4/11/94)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Akira Taue (4/14/94)


DISC 24
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Dr. Death (Carnival Final) (4/16/94)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Kenta Kobashi & Tamon Honda (Finish Only) (5/13/94)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi (5/21/94)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (6/3/94)


Disc 25
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Tsuyoshi Kikuchi & Jun Akiyama (6/30/94)
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi vs. Kenta Kobashi, Tsuyoshi Kikuchi & Giant Baba (7/28/94)
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa vs. Jun Akiyama, Tamon Honda & Takao Omori (8/28/94)
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Takao Omori vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Tamon Honda & Giant Baba (9/3/94)
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Tamon Honda & Kenta Kobashi (10/5/94)


Disc 26
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (JIP) (10/7/94)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Dr. Death (10/22/94)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi (JIP) (11/25/94)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Stan Hansen & Giant Baba (12/10/94)
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Jun Akiyama & Satoru Asako (1/2/95)


Disc 27
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (1/19/95)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi (1/24/95)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas (1/29/95)


Disc 28
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Stan Hansen (3/4/95)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jun Akiyama (3/21/95)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (4/6/95)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Akira Taue (4/8/95)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Takao Omori (4/12/95)
Toshiaki Kawada, Johnny Ace & Takao Omori vs. Stan Hansen, Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (4/15/95)


Disc 29
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (5/13/95 TV)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi (6/9/95)
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Tamon Honda vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Satoru Asako (JIP) (6/30/95)
Toshiaki Kawada, Yoshinari Ogawa & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (7/8/95)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (7/24/95)


Disc 30
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Jun Izumida vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Satoru Asako (9/30/95)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi (10/15/95)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Gary Albright (10/25/95)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi (12/9/95)


Disc 31
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Stan Hansen & Gary Albright (1/24/96)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (3/2/96)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Akira Taue (3/31/96)
Toshiaki Kawada, Johnny Ace & Gary Albright vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (4/20/96)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama (5/23/96)


Disc 32
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (5/24/96)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Akira Taue (6/7/96)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama (7/9/96)
Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Jun Akiyama & Satoru Asako (9/28/96)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (10/18/96)


Disc 33
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Dr. Death & Johnny Ace (11/22/96)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama (11/29/96)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama (12/6/96)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Dr. Death & Johnny Ace (1/17/97)
Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi vs. Yoshiaki Fujiwara & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (1/26/97)


Disc 34
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (JIP) (3/30/97)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa / Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (4/6/97)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Kenta Kobashi & Johnny Ace (JIP) (5/27/97)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (6/6/97)
Toshiaki Kawada & Tamon Honda vs. Yoshihiro Takayama & Lacrosse (7/25/97)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Kenta Kobashi & Johnny Ace (10/11/97)


Disc 35
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Yoshihiro Takayama (10/21/97)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Kenta Kobashi & Johnny Ace (Finish Only) (11/28/97)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Kenta Kobashi & Johnny Ace (12/5/97)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Kenta Kobashi & Johnny Ace (1/25/98)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Steve Williams & Gary Albright (2/28/98)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (JIP) (3/29/98)


Disc 36
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Johnny Smith & Johnny Ace (JIP) (4/18/98)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa Hype! (5/1/98)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (5/1/98)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Kenta Kobashi & Johnny Ace (6/5/98)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (6/12/98)


Disc 37
Toshiaki Kawada & Takao Omori vs. Hiro Hase & Maunakea Mossman (7/24/98)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Masahito Kakihara (9/11/98)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (10/11/98)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Masahito Kakihara & Yoshihiro Takayama (10/31/98)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (1/7/99)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (1/22/99)


Disc 38
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Hiroshi Hase (5/2/99)
Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Akira Taue (6/4/99)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Yoshihiro Takayama & Takao Omori (6/11/99)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (7/23/99)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (1/17/00)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Yoshihiro Takayama & Takao Omori (1/23/00)


Disc 39
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Vader (2/17/00)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (3/31/00)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Johnny Ace & Mike Barton (JIP) (6/9/00)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Yoshihiro Takayama & Takao Omori (6/9/00)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Masa Fuchi (7/1/00)
Toshiaki Kawada & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Stan Hansen & Maunakea Mossman (7/23/00)
Toshiaki Kawada & Dr. Death vs. Stan Hansen & Genichiro Tenryu (9/2/00)


Disc 40
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kensuke Sasaki (10/9/00)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Genichiro Tenryu (10/28/00)
Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Nobutaka Araya (12/6/00)
Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi vs. Dr. Death & Mike Rotunda (12/9/00)
Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi vs. Yuji Nagata & Takashi Iizuka (12/14/00)


DISC 41
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Hiroyoshi Tenzan (NJ 1/4/01)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kensuke Sasaki (NJ 1/4/01)
Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi vs. Taiyo Kea & Johnny Smith (1/14/01)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Keiji Mutoh (4/14/01)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuya Nagai (4/29/01)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Satoshi Kojima (NJ 6/6/01)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Hiroyoshi Tenzan (6/8/01)


DISC 42
Toshiaki Kawada & Nobutaka Araya vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Masa Fuchi (6/30/01)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuya Nagai vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Ricky Fuyuki (12/5/01)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuya Nagai vs. Keiji Mutoh & Taiyo Kea (12/7/01)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Keiji Mutoh (2/24/02)
Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi vs. Satoshi Kojima & Keiji Mutoh (4/12/03)
Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi vs. Satoshi Kojima & Kendo Kashin (5/25/03)


DISC 43
Toshiaki Kawada & Satoshi Kojima vs. Keiji Mutoh & Arashi (6/5/03)
Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi vs. Satoshi Kojima & Jimmy Yang (6/8/03)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Arashi (6/11/03)
Toshiaki Kawada, Nobutaka Araya & Shigeo Okamura vs. Masato Tanaka, Shinjiro Ohtani & Hideki Hosaka (6/13/03)
Toshiaki Kawada & Keiji Mutoh vs. Shinya Hashimoto & Naoya Ogawa (Z1 7/6/03)
Toshiaki Kawada & Ryuji Hijkata vs. Satoshi Kojima & Jimmy Yang (7/12/03)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Keiji Mutoh (7/13/03)



DISC 44
Toshiaki Kawada vs. The Gladiator (9/6/03)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Shinjiro Ohtani (9/6/03)
Toshiaki Kawada & Ryuji Hijikata vs. Mike Awesome & TAKA Michinoku (10/5/03)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Don Frye (10/26/03)
Toshiaki Kawada, Nobutaka Araya & Ryuji Hijikata vs. Keiji Mutoh, Tomoaki Honma & Arashi (12/2/03)
Toshiaki Kawada & Kendo Kashin vs. Shinya Hashimoto & Wataru Sakata (12/5/03)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Naoya Ogawa (Z1 12/14/03)



DISC 45
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Genichiro Tenryu (1/18/04)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Shinya Hashimoto (2/22/04)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Cactus Jack (Hustle 5/8/04)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuya Nagai (7/22/04)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Keizo Matsuda (IWA 8/31/04)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Osamu Nishimura (9/3/04)


DISC 46
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuya Nagai vs. Shinsuke Nakamura & Hiroyoshi Tenzan (NJ 10/24/04)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Taiyo Kea (10/31/04)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Hiroyoshi Tenzan (12/5/04)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kensuke Sasaki (1/16/05)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Satoshi Kojima (2/16/05)


DISC 47
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Naoya Ogawa (Hustle 3/18/05)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kensuke Sasaki (4/20/05)
Toshiaki Kawada + Mitsuharu Misawa (NOAH 4/24/05)
Toshiaki Kawada & Taichi Ishikari vs. Hi69 & Yuuji Hino (Kaientai Dojo 5/28/05)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Tomoaki Honma (6/3/05)
Toshiaki Kawada & Kensuke Sasaki vs. Keiji Muto & Kohei Suwama (6/19/05)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (NOAH 7/18/05)


DISC 48
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Tatsumi Fujinami (NJ 8/5/05)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Yuji Nagata (NJ 8/6/05)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Minoru Suzuki (NJ 8/11/05)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Osamu Nishimura (NJ 8/13/05)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mikhail Ilioukhine (U-Style 11/23/05)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Touru Owashi (dragondoor 2/7/06)
Toshiaki Kawada & Kohei Sato vs. Wataru Sakata & Ryoji Sai (Hustle 5/13/06)


DISC 49
Toshiaki Kawada & Kohei Sato vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Ryoji Sai (Hustle 6/15/06)
Toshiaki Kawada & The Monster C vs. Tajiri & Kintaro Kanemura (Hustle 7/11/06)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. D-Lo Brown (7/30/06)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Taiyo Kea (8/27/06)
Toshiaki Kawada, Genichiro Tenryu, Kohei Sato, Giant Vabo & The Monster C vs. Naoya Ogawa, Tajiri, Shinjiro Ohtani, Razor Ramon HG & New Yin-sama (Elimination Match) (Hustle 10/9/06)
Toshiaki Kawada & Keiji Muto vs. Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan (AJ 12/2/06)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Shinsuke Nakamura (NJ 1/4/07)


DISC 50
Toshiaki Kawada, Keiji Mutoh & TAKA Michinoku vs. Brother YASSHI, Rosey & Kohei Suwama (2/12/07)
Toshiaki Kawada & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Shinjiro Ohtani & RG (Hustle 3/18/07)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. TAJIRI (3/28/07)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Satoshi Kojima (4/7/07)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Keiji Muto (4/7/07)
Toshiaki Kawada Sings! (Hustle 4/19/07)
Toshiaki Kawada, Genichiro Tenryu & Tajiri vs. Shinjiro Ohtani, Kushida & RG (Hustle 4/19/07)
Toshiaki Kawada & Genichiro Tenryu vs. HG & RG (Hustle 4/21/07)


DISC 51
Toshiaki Kawada, Genichiro Tenryu & ACHICHI vs. HG, Wataru Sakata & Ryuji Sai (Hustle 6/10/07)
Toshiaki Kawada & ACHICHI vs. Yoshihiro Takayama & Minoru Suzuki (Hustle 6/17/07)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Yutaka Yoshie (Muga 6/21/07)
Toshiaki Kawada in Drag (Hustle 9/13/07)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Yutaka Yoshie (Muga 9/23/07)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kensuke Sasaki (10/18/07)
Toshiaki Kawada & Kensuke Sasaki vs. Osamu Nishimura & Masa Fuchi (11/23/07)
Toshiaki Kawada the Entertainer (Hustle 11/25/07)


DISC 52
Toshiaki Kawada & Kensuke Sasaki vs. Satoshi Kojima & Kohei Suwama (12/9/07)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Ryouji Sai (Hustle 1/17/08)
Toshiaki Kawada, Kohei Sato & Monster C vs. HG, TAJIRI & Ryouji Sai (Hustle 2/21/08)
Toshiaki Kawada & Taiyo Kea vs. Keiji Mutoh & Tanahashi (All Japan 3/1/08)
Toshiaki Kawada Sings! (Hustle 3/17/08)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Taiyo Kea (4/7/08)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (4/8/08)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Tigers Mask (8/31/08)
Toshiaki Kawada & Kintaro Kanemura vs. Riki Choshu & Shiro Koshinaka (11/3/08)


DISC 53
Toshiaki Kawada, Genichiro Tenryu & Tajiri vs. Shiro Koshinaka, Yuji Nagata & Jushin Liger (HUSTLE 8/27/09)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Jun Akiyama & KENTA (NOAH 10/3/09)
Toshiaki Kawada & Kohei Sato vs. Shinjiro Ohtani & Masato Tanaka (Z1 10/18/09)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Masato Tanaka (Z1 10/24/09)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Daisuke Sekimoto (Z1 1/1/10)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Takeshi Morishima (NOAH 2/28/10)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Ryuji Sai (Z1 3/2/10)


DISC 54
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mohammed Yone (NOAH 4/10/10)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kohei Sato (Z1 4/11/10)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Naomichi Marufuji (NOAH 4/13/10)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Yoshihiro Takayama (NOAH 4/24/10)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Takeshi Morishima (NOAH 4/25/10)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Akitoshi Saito (NOAH 5/2/10)


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Undertaker vs Kawada. Come on you scrubs.

Kawada is the best wrestler to ever live, btw.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> The Great Muta Vs Mutoh in a buried alive loser leaves life match. That's the only match I want with him in.


I'd actually love to see how a company could pull that off. They would be the greatest promotion ever for accomplishing the impossible.



The Hitman said:


> Spoiler: Toshiaki Kawada Comp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


vs Mick made it :hb

Along w/basically his entire career. Holy sweet lady gaga is that epic.



Bubz said:


> Undertaker vs Kawada. Come on you scrubs.
> 
> Kawada is the best wrestler to ever live, btw.


Insisting that I wouldn't already have that positioned on my list insults me greatly.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Cody's favorite match is Mean Mark vs Johnny Ace.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Found it for anyone:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*Undertaker vs. Mankind*​
So I couldn't sleep last night, so I popped the Foley Doc on again (excellent, and really really well done, crazy how much better it was than Hunter's and weren't they released just a few months apart ?), and have been on a Foley binge ever seen, I decided lets watch this compete series as well as other matches (Vader)

1) IYH Buried Alive
2) IYH revenge of Taker
3) KOTR 98
4) Boilering Room Brawl​
Numbers #1-3 I loved so much, and order were interchangeable. Ive never seen KOTR 98 in full, I havent in a while watched a match with a smile on my face the entire time. All that needs to be said about that match has been said, loved it and Foley's just simply smiling throughout it all is some of the greatest storytelling I've ever seen in pro wrestling. 

Thought the in your house matches were amazing, never seen a buried alive match so it was interesting. Only match of these series I didnt really like was the boiler room brawl. I thought it was good, just kinda boring and had way to much time. Really cool and unique match and how it was worked, but a bit boring


I also watched HBK/Mankind again and its just fucking outstanding for all the little details put in the match. We all know how it went but if you pay attention to the little things in it, just puts it even more over


So in recap, Foley is GOD, growing up it was always flair,hbk,foley,cena,orton for me and it just took me back. If I was ever on a estranged island, if I choose three guys to watch for the rest of my life, w/o a doubt it would be flair,hbk,foley


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MEAN MARK :mark:


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Fucks sake Cody, why did you have to bring up a Japanese wrestler to face 'Taker? Now I've gotta fucking add TENRYU to my list and I've already got 10 so I've gotta cut someone, and I already cut someone earlier. DAMMIT CODY!!!
> 
> Been a while since I've seen Starrcade 87 but I remember the scaffold and NWA title matches being good (cage match great even, unless I'm confusing it with another? I could be. Hell might even be confusing the scaffolding match with something else :lmao). Still a better show than WM III from the same year.


I feel like you're confusing the Scaffold Match from the 1986 Starrcade with the one from 1987. Same teams, same outcome, same show. That's the one where Cornette takes the bump of the scaffold. I actually liked that match a lot. 

The cage probably did get a raw deal with my rating because the previous match burnt me out and I sort of had to power through it. The TV is on in the background at one point I found myself paying more attention to a State Farm Insurance commercial that I could barely hear than the match.I mean I still thought it was good but I wouldn't say great.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SKINS said:


> *Undertaker vs. Mankind*​
> So I couldn't sleep last night, so I popped the Foley Doc on again (excellent, and really really well done, crazy how much better it was than Hunter's and weren't they released just a few months apart ?), and have been on a Foley binge ever seen, I decided lets watch this compete series as well as other matches (Vader)
> 
> 1) IYH Buried Alive
> ...


Will you be watching the other Undertaker/Foley PPV matches?


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I really liked that Taylor/Koloff match from Starrcade. Much. Much much much. Think I had it on the same wavelength as the Steamboat/Savage match at WM3.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TaylorFitz said:


> I feel like you're confusing the Scaffold Match from the 1986 Starrcade with the one from 1987. Same teams, same outcome, same show. That's the one where Cornette takes the bump of the scaffold. I actually liked that match a lot.


That would probably explain it .




MEAN MARK :mark:. His match with Luger for the US title is legit fucking good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starrcade '86 scaffold match was Road Warriors vs Midnight Express. And the Express was Eaton & Condrey, not Eaton & Lane. They're not identical in the slightest.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Starrcade '86 scaffold match was Road Warriors vs Midnight Express. And the Express was Eaton & Condrey, not Eaton & Lane. They're not identical in the slightest.


Well then that wouldn't explain anything then. THE FUCK TaylorFitz? STOP CONFUSING MY ALREADY FUCKED UP MIND!!!


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Taker vs. Mecha Mummy is the way to go.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal flubbed off a flub. Vintage Cal.

Also: MEAN MARK

b/c I like the topic of pre-Undertaker being discussed.

Mecha Mummy 8*D


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> That would probably explain it .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


GAB 90, right? Watched that match pretty recently and thought, ok it was 'alright'. Had a strong craving to watch it again and thought it was really sweet. Underlining sweet. Similar to tasting some bit of foreign candy (candy, for the Americans) for the first time and not liking it very much, then building up an apetite(?) to try it again, much better. Actually felt the same about Luger's match at Havoc that year against Hansen.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Will you be watching the other Undertaker/Foley PPV matches?


 the KOTR 96 match completely slipped my mind, yes I will watch that one. I just read they have a svs match as well ? Are they the only two I need to see ? Good Lord I could have swore it was the hunter/foley series that had all these little ppv matches here and there and the TWO major ones


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I knew Eaton was in both.... And yeah, they certainly were not the same match. 

And fuck that Taylor/Koloff match. I fell asleep on it twice.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You can't let KOTR '96 slip your mind, pal. It's basically their best. All their matches though :mark:


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

meh, Kawada discussion should have lasted at least another 3 pages imo.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

It's a damn shame we never got to see Taker facing The Rock, Austin or Foley at WrestleMania. Or Kurt Angle in 2006. Or someone better than Edge in 2008, or someone better than Triple H at 2012, or someone more fitting than Punk in 2013.

Random dream feud of the primes: Brothers of Destruction vs. The Funks


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I tried. 

Undertaker tho. :hayley1


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

If we're talking Undertaker Streak opponents from Japan I would want to see Undertaker vs. Kent Kobashi in a match where Kobashi fully understands that he needs to hit the Burning Hammer for the win. It would be the guy that can't lose against the guy who has a move that can't be kicked out of.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

CAL's Taker streak matches list should be an interesting one. I know STING will be number one! :troll

Benoit surely has to be there imo.



The Hitman said:


> Well, i was going to upload a Benoit/HHH House Show match from '04 soon.


Plz do.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pre-Undertaker Undertaker matches?



Spoiler: pretty gosh darn old writeup thingys



*The Master of Pain Vs Rodney Napper - CWA 12/02/1989*

This is Big Mark's CWA Debut! At least, I think it is .

He cuts a promo before the match, telling everyone he knows pain because he spent the last 4 years in prison (aka WCCW lol). Yeah, not the best promo he has cut .

This is a squash match, with Mark just beating the shit out of Rodney, using a big slam, a massive legdrop, a straight punch to the face, and then his leaping lariat for the 3 count in 1 minute 8 seconds.

Yeah, umm, not much to say about this one, since its 1 minute and 8 seconds long, but it was fun . Mark showed off his athleticism and power, so the match did exactly what is was meant to do, and didn't go on for 5 bloody minutes like some squash matches do (*cough* Lance Archer matches *cough*).

*Rating: 1/4**


*The Master of Pain Vs David Johnson - CWA 18/02/1989*

Yet another squash match lol.

This one is even shorter than the week before, with only a choke hold, a press slam (into the ropes neck first), a punch to the face and a massive (looks far more impressive than Hogan's) legdrop. Mark continues to beat down his opponent after he wins, then refuses to leave the ring until Lawler shows up, which leads to another match!

Fun once again, and not a dud because, well, its Mark, and his legdrop is awesome.

*Rating: 1/4**


*The Master of Pain Vs Jerry Lawler - CWA 18/02/1989*

Big Mark destroys Lawler from the get go, and when Lawler is able to hit a right hand or go for a move, Mark just stands there and absorbs the punishment as if it was nothing.

Poor Lawler, the champion, is useless against the Master of Pain. After a few minutes of getting beat up, Mark traps Lawler into a corner and begins to pummel him with big rights and lefts to the mid section. Dutch Mantell comes into the ring to stop The Master of Pain and get him to leave the ring. Why? Because he simply wanted to make a statement that Lawler is nothing compared to his man.

This was ALSO a squash match, against the CHAMPION! Mark made a big statement against Lawler, and did a great job doing it.

*Rating: **


*The Punisher Vs Steve Williams - USWA Renegades Rampage 1989*

:lmao at this one. 'Taker looks like some giant S&M guy ready to have his way with a young Steve Austin, who looks like a female body builder with his bulging muscles and long blond hair :cal:.

This one goes 2 minutes, and consists of a headlock, 'Takers now signature leaping lariat, and a legdrop to finish things off (possible another move thrown in there that I forgot... 2 at the most lol).

Nothing worth seeing tbh, other than the fact its The Undertaker before he became The Undertaker, and Steve Austin before he became Stone Cold or Stunning Steve. For those reasons I cannot give this a dud .

*Rating: 1/4**


*The Skyscrapers Vs The Road Warriors - NWA Clash of the Champions X 06/02/1990*

A typical fun 10 minute NWA tag match right here. All 4 guys are big powerhouses, but all 4 guys can move quickly, and can even fly around the ring a little, which is impressive as hell considering their size.

Road Warriors dominate most of the match, then the Skyscrapers gain control thanks to a steel chair when the ref gets knocked out, and things go crazy with their respective managers going at it, and both Road Warriors getting laid out with some brutal chair shots, and a big piledriver to one of them. I think a second referee throws the match out or DQ's the Skyscrapers, I'm not sure though lol.

Didn't have much time, and seemed to be more of a set up to the next match than anything else (which isn't a bad thing, and it happens all the time lol). Pretty incredible to see a match of this pace with guys of their size.

*Rating: *1/2*


*The Skyscrapers Vs The Road Warriors - Chicago Street Fight - WCW WrestleWar 25/02/1990*

Spivey isn't in this one, he left WCW the day before, so 'Taker's tag partner was... The Masked Skyscraper! Also know as Blake Beverly in the WWF! 

This is a fun brawl, and nothing else, but it didn't need to be, and wasn't supposed to be. Both teams just slug it out for 8 minutes or so and never slowed down.

The Masked Skyscraper takes the pin following a Doomsday Devise, and then Ron Simmons and Butch Reed start their own street fight with the Road Warriors lol, so we basically get two matches in one .

So yeah, a good brawl, I just wonder how much better it could have been if Spivey didn't leave WCW.

*Rating: ***


*Mean Mark Callous Vs Lex Luger - WCW United States Title - WCW Great American Bash 07/07/1990*

I was rather surprised at how much I enjoyed this one, there was plenty to like about it. Firstly, OMG TEH UNDERTAKER DIDZ SOME BASIK MAT WORK! Odd seeing him do a drop toe hold then float over(ish) into a headlock to try and ground Luger . Luger wrestled the early going very smartly, knowing that he isn't the biggest and perhaps not even the strongest guy in the match, so he hit a number of quick moves such as a cross body and an arm drag. 'Taker screaming "Dammit, DAMMIT!" when he takes a second arm drag from Luger was awesome, up there with Jericho's "Ask Him!" . Heyman on the outside was gold too, screaming things like "he's a football player, he isn't supposed to wrestle that good" when Luger hits the arm drags.

Luger's idea of using fast paced and even high flying moves ends up nearly taking him out of the match when Mean Mark ducks a cross body and Lex flies over the ropes. Heyman distracts the ref so Mark can get some blows in on Luger, by shouting the referee over to tell him he "ain't doing nuffin" :lmao.

The plan of out manoeuvring Mark doesn't seem to be working for Luger, so he just says fuck it, and starts throwing bombs at Mean Mark, allowing him to even lock in the Torture Rack! But its Heyman on the outside that prevents the match from ending with that move, but its only delaying the inevitable, as Luger still manages to pick up the win.

Really solid big man match, with Luger actually being the stand out guy!

*Rating: ****


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

ANGLE THE GOAT is obviously gonna be #1 on Cal's list  :kurt


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> CAL's Taker streak matches list should be an interesting one. I know STING will be number one! :troll
> 
> Benoit surely has to be there imo.Plz do.


I will later then. First name i mentioned in regards to the streak was Benoit.  Surely they had a chance of booking that?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

For some reason this wasn't in my text document:



Spoiler: Undertaker before he was Undertaker's first ever match



*Texas Red Vs Bruiser Brody - WCCW 1984*

:mark: :mark: :mark:

This is Mark Calaway's FIRST match, wearing a mask and being accompanied to the ring by Percy Pringle, who we would later know as PAUL BEARER! What are the odds of that?

Pretty funny to see someone work Calaway's arm at the start of a match, and not the other way around. Also pretty funny that despite this being his first match, he is getting completely dominated by Brody, even though he is nearly 7 feet tall .

About a minute into the match, Brody is already using a steel chair, nailing Red in the back. This is followed up by Brody tying up Texas Red in the ropes and repeatedly running knee first into his knee .

Texas Red gets free, and walks into a big boot, and Brody gets the win.

Funny as hell watching Undertaker get squashed, but I don't care. Its just a rare treat to see my absolute favourite's first ever match all the way back in 1984. Not sure on the specific date, so if anyone can help me there, please do .

Its not a great match, its not long, but its entertaining for me just because of who is involved, and again, because its his first ever match.

*Rating: 1/4**


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One pre-Taker from Japan:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Been a looong time since I watched that tag. I should do that sometime.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bit of an odd request, but best 2 Cold Scorpio matches?

Just watching Jericho/Pitbull/Scorpio/Douglas from Heatwave '96, thought I'd ask. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Plz do.


Here you are:

*Chris Benoit vs Triple H - RAW House Show - MSG - 26.06.2004*

x1iveek


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Windham/Williams from Starrcade 1987 is evidence as to why Steve Williams honestly isn't that great of a wrestler. He's so hit-or-miss. Either he plays an awesome monster (usually with the assistance of elite workers), or he is fucking boring.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Windham/Williams from Starrcade 1987 is evidence as to why Steve Williams honestly isn't that great of a wrestler. He's so hit-or-miss. Either he plays an awesome monster (usually with the assistance of elite workers), or he is fucking boring.



I haven't seen a ton of Doc's stuff, but what I have seen, I've liked. I like the MVC tags with Gordy, and I like the match he has with Gordy for the world title on the mid south set, along with the tags he has with DiBiase vs Freebirds and Jake Roberts/Barbarian, and finally, I like the match he has with Bossman for the world title on the mid south set.

That sums up all the matches I've seen with him, and they all range from good, to very good, to great.

That Mid South set is really the best release from WWE in a LONG time. Should be required viewing for all fans of the rugged, brutal, "hook me up and fight it out" style of the 80s southern territories. There's atleast 8 or 9 matches I can watch over and over and never get bored with, including the greatest brawl of all time (Sawyer/Duggan)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Duggan/Sawyer truly is a candidate for GOAT brawl.

:lmao Vince McMahon doesn't know how to pronounce "feces". It sounds like he says "he-shes" :lmao :vince3


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Windham/Williams from Starrcade 1987 is evidence as to why Steve Williams honestly isn't that great of a wrestler. He's so hit-or-miss. Either he plays an awesome monster (usually with the assistance of elite workers), or he is fucking boring.


But you gotta love that FACE, man, c'mon... Dem skillz are not be-all-end-all.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:arn

Now that's a GOAT face.

Just watched TAKA/HHH. Good match, but it isn't the epic that I once remembered it being. I think I actually liked TAKA's match with Malenko a week before just as much.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Windham/Williams from Starrcade 1987 is evidence as to why Steve Williams honestly isn't that great of a wrestler. He's so hit-or-miss. Either he plays an awesome monster (usually with the assistance of elite workers), or he is fucking boring.


That match was so frustrating because they could have made it so good. The whole point of the match was that Windham would show him as much respect as possible and when Williams had the chance he didn't do the same thing. That could be a really compelling match. Except as soon as we saw what Williams was doing the match ended. They didn't build on it at all. Windham just looked like an idiot.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> Here you are:
> 
> *Chris Benoit vs Triple H - RAW House Show - MSG - 26.06.2004*


Thanks. :hb

Need to spread some rep.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Thanks. :hb
> 
> Need to spread some rep.


NP. Also have Batista & Chris Benoit vs Ric Flair & Triple H (WWE RAW House Show, Sydney, Australia - 09.04.2005).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Bubz said:


> Kawada is the best wrestler to ever live, btw.


^^^^^^^^^


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

I'd like to throw in Ricky Steamboat vs Taker for Undertaker streak matches..Taker being the destructive heel demon and Ricky playing the underdog face(well duh)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> ^^^^^^^^^


I haven't watched a ton of Kawada, but even so, I have a hard time believing anyone has ever had a better wrestling career than Ric Flair. He's pretty much the be all end all for wrestling greatness. I'm not even a big Nature Boy mark, there's 10 guys at least I enjoy watching more than him, I just can't honestly say they are BETTER, than Flair was, for as long as he was.


It's really hard to compare North American wrestling matches and careers with Japanese, that's why I generally try to avoid it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Not that the debate matters anyways. We all know that by the time his career ends, :bryan3 will be the plurality choice for greatest wrestler ever. I mean, who in wrestling history has had a catalog of matches as good as him at the age of 32?

Yes, I am trying to coerce a discussion. Who has had a better catalog at 32?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Triple post geeze sorry about that


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> It's really hard to compare North American wrestling matches and careers with Japanese, that's why I generally try to avoid it.


I've never really got why people consider it all that hard. I mean, it's wrestling. It's sort of different wrestling, but it's same wrestling. Same stuff applies for the most part. Only hard comparisons are stuff like big catalogue of great matches v. small career, but better wrestler. I think Volk Han was absolutely better than Bryan Danielson has ever been, but he had like 55 matches. Peak v. consistency/length is an annoying comparison as well (well, it's pretty much what I just said but can be slightly different).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Discrepancies like DH Smith in WWE vs. DH Smith in NJPW make the comparison hard. It's not necessarily North America, but mainstream American promotions that don't allow great wrestlers to show off their best stuff.

I really like Volk Han, but what exactly does he do better than Bryan? I honestly can't think of one thing he does half as well.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

What Volk Han have you watched? He's a better seller, better on the mat, more ''holy shit'' offense, better at making matches dramatic, more realistic...everything, really. I think he's honestly as good as any wrestler as ever been, but, yeah, too short a career.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I've never really got why people consider it all that hard. I mean, it's wrestling. It's sort of different wrestling, but it's same wrestling. Same stuff applies for the most part. Only hard comparisons are stuff like big catalogue of great matches v. small career, but better wrestler. I think Volk Han was absolutely better than Bryan Danielson has ever been, but he had like 55 matches. Peak v. consistency/length is an annoying comparison as well (well, it's pretty much what I just said but can be slightly different).



Well, the consistency vs peak argument is where it gets hard for me to rank the top 10 or so North American wrestlers. For instance, I believe Eddie Guerrero, at his peak, was better than any other wrestler that ever lived. But he essentially had only 4 "Peak" years, 1997 and 2002-2005. How can I put him above Ric Flair, a guy who did it as well as anyone for over 2 full decades? That's what makes it hard for me to differentiate between the top 5-10 wrestlers ever. The only thing I'm certain of is that as far as North America goes, Ric has just gotta be considered the best. In 1989 he had 5 matches you can make an honest case for being 5 star, perfect matches. That's unheard of. Let alone all the greatness he had from 1983-1988 and 1990-2008. 

As far as comparing American wrestlers to Japenese, the biggest reason I personally can't compare them is I simply don't know enough. I've probably only watched 50 or so matches from Japan. You can't even begin to rate certain guys careers on that few matches. Whereas I've probably seen 2,000 or more matches that took place in North America.

The biggest difference is it's just hard for me to understand the story and feuds with the commentary being entirely in a foreign language. I have no clue whose good at drawing crowds in with their promos, or who is the best at bringing their character into the matches.

Japenese wrestling undoubtedly has characters, it's just not nearly as emphasized as it is here. That's another big difference. The actual wrestling is just as easy to understand though, as work in the ring is a universal language. It's not like Japanese wrestling is a completely different sport, I just think the style of work and how wrestlers are presented and expected to use their characters is different enough from over here that it makes truly comparing Jumbo Tsuruta to Ric Flair difficult to do accurately.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Not that the debate matters anyways. We all know that by the time his career ends, :bryan3 will be the plurality choice for greatest wrestler ever. I mean, who in wrestling history has had a catalog of matches as good as him at the age of 32?
> 
> Yes, I am trying to coerce a discussion. Who has had a better catalog at 32?


If all of the matches that I have seen were all of the matches that have ever happened Bryan "Daniel Bryan" Danielson would be the best wrestler ever and it's not even close. He had so many great matches before he was ever signed it's almost scary. What's even more insane is that I've seen so many of his great matches and I haven't come close to seeing them all. There was a time period in ROH where I think he was seriously having a 4* match on every show. He has 5 classic matches with Morishima (2 of which I would say are 5*s or near it), an amazing match with KENTA, another great series with Nigel. And that's just ROH. 

I actually get worried that I'm going to sound like too much of a Bryan mark when I post in other sections but my honest, I think well informed, opinion is that he's the best going today and when all is said and done you will be able to make a strong case that he's THE best ever. And I think I'm going to have a hard time saying he isn't the best. He can work as a heel or face, work any style of, and even play different types of heels or faces (he's done a badass heel in the indies and the chickenshit heel in WWE. Same with his babyface work).


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Just finished WM 23:

MITB: ***3/4
Kane/Khali: *
New breed vs ECW: *1/2
Benoit/MVP: ***1/2
Batista/Taker: ****1/4
Lashley/Umaga: **1/4
Cena/HBK: ****1/2

I still say to this day HBK/Cena is very underrated. That piledriver on the steel steps!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena/HBK might have been underrated a few years ago but it's mostly loved these days, around these parts anyway.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> What Volk Han have you watched? He's a better seller, better on the mat, more ''holy shit'' offense, better at making matches dramatic, more realistic...everything, really. I think he's honestly as good as any wrestler as ever been, but, yeah, too short a career.





Spoiler: Response



Last year, I actually found a Wrestletapes listing for Volk Han, and went on a Dailymotion spree of watching anything and everything he had there, which surprisingly was quite a huge amount of that listing. My favorites from him would probably be the 1/22/97 match with Tamura and the 12/24/94 match with Nagai.

You got me on the "better on the mat" and more realistic side, as Volk Han was exquisite when it came to applying and countering submissions among other aspects of matwork. The "more realistic" advantage though isn't that big of a deal for me because Volk Han had the advantage of working the shoot style, which is obviously more realistic than a "traditional" wrestling match. However, pro wrestling doesn't have to be realistic; it just needs to be logical, which are two different things. And clearly, Daniel Bryan does not have an issue with regards to wrestling a "logical" match (and neither does Volk Han of course).

With regards to offense, I actually think Bryan is the one with more "holy shit" offense and a generally more fun moveset. The way that Bryan runs at his opponents with reckless abandon is a sight to watch. The way he flies in the air to deliver either a headbutt or a missile dropkick and then kip up always gives us all goosebumps. Volk Han is masterful at countering offense like I mentioned before, but Bryan has just as special moments too, ranging from something as simple as reversing a Lou Thesz press into a rolling leg crab to turning a GTS into a tiger suplex into a cattle mutilation. And what's even more impressive is how even though he is probably 5'8" at best, he is still able to make his moves look so credible, which is very hard to do.

When it comes to selling, I can see the argument for Volk Han, but I am more impressed by Bryan's ability to make his opponent look like a threat, even when he is a main eventer that is wrestling a jobber like a Fandango. It's a simple thing, but there is this scream that Bryan does when an opponent hits him real hard (usually when he's grounded) that it sounds like he is in serious pain. It's the best scream I've ever heard. Bryan is also real good at bumping for opposing wrestlers without ever overdoing it. The way he bumped for Morishima or Ryback made them all the more credible, and I can't pinpoint any impressive examples of "bumping" from Volk Han. As we all know as well, he (and Volk Han for that matter) do not ever forget to sell long-term injuries, including carrying on said injury after the match. Going back to an earlier point about how Han does a better job with portraying a sense of realism, it is also worth noting that Bryan is also great at 

The big difference though that I just don't know how to make an argument for Volk Han is dramatism. As great as Volk Han is, there are quite a few instances where I feel like his matches are dragging instead of progressing, such as the Han/Kopylov match in July of 1992 where the match started to turn into a long leglock sequence, or the disappointing 10/29/92 Maeda match that went on for too damn long. Han for the vast majority of instances does a great job with instilling drama in his matches, but for goodness sakes, Bryan did something that nobody ever did and got a crowd to shift their focus on a Cena-centric chant to a Bryan-centric one with literally one small head shake. His pulse for understanding what a crowd wants has carried him on to the point where the only guys in wrestling more over than him are the three biggest stars the business ever had in Hogan, Rock, and Austin. The way he times his comebacks are perfect in that his opponent gets enough offense to make them look like stars, yet it never drags on too long to the point where I stop caring about the match like I have before with Han. The suspense in a Daniel Bryan nearfall or submission is just as suspenseful, if not more than a submission that Volk Han locks in, especially with the way Bryan shows desperation either by flailing his head around or shaking his body. I just don't know what Volk Han does better than Bryan when it comes to instilling drama in a match.

There are some other points that I think Bryan has clear advantages over Han in such as versatility and ability to play a face/heel in a match, but it wouldn't really make sense to use them because Han spent his time in one organization with a small cycle of workers and a system that depended less on the face/heel dynamic than traditional American companies. The last point that warrants some talk is which man is better at getting the most out of his opponent. I think I would give Han the advantage in understanding how much to give to his opponent (in fact, he might be unmatched in that regard). Both guys have given less than stellar workers some of their best bouts, but Bryan was able to give excellent wrestlers like Morishima, SHINGO, and Nigel McGuinness their clear best match. Only guy I can think of that Han did that with was Tamura. And what's most impressive is how Bryan is able to give guys their career matches by wrestling his style. A brawler like Sheamus was never able to get any Sheamus-style matches anywhere nearly as good as the Danielson style match at Extreme Rules 2012. What better ring general has there been in the last decade?

I don't know how to close this, but I just want to now watch some more RINGS.



Backlash 2000 still holds up. Surprised by how fun the opener was. :lmao at Eddie/Essa. So many funny moments in that match. Jericho/Benoit is :lenny. And Rock/HHH reminded me so much of OTL 98 Austin/Foley.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

How is it hard comparing a wrestler from Japan to a wrestler from America? Yeah, I get the notions of "stylistic differences" but really, it's not a large gaping difference. Talent is talent. And wrestling is wrestling.

Also Kawada 4 life. See, I'm still trying to keep it going. Monster K in his *Kill Bill* suit rocks my world.










Look at that shit. What does this have to do w/talent? If you're asking, you know nothing.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It's just hard to compare mainstream American wrestling where there are so many limitations to Japanese wrestling where those limitations are lifted. Look at all the wrestlers in history that couldn't showcase anything in the WWE, but then magically look incredible in Japan.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Like who? Luke Gallows/Festus won me over by his work in WWE. Going elsewhere w/o limitations only helped confirm what I already saw. It's not like that mentality applies to everyone as it is. Doesn't stop the gravy train for Bryan Danielson or others who's legacy is basically built solely in WWF/WWE like The Undertaker. That mindset is...weird. b/c it only gives a cushion to the lower card workers.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Those lower card workers such as the Festuses and Alberts of the world never get their opportunities to shine, whereas a main event guy like Undertaker does. That's where the discrepancy lies. Yeah, a fun five minute match can tell you a decent amount about a wrestler, but I got a lot more out of Bernard/Nagata than out of Tensai matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Should have said A-Train following the Bernard/Nagata comment. b/c using Tensai as a follow up despite knowing how great he is doesn't mean anything except that WWE isn't letting him cut loose like he should. 8*D

Kane vs Albert was all someone needed to know his worth to begin w/.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

But that's kinda what I'm trying to say. The things that "saddle" good workers like Matt Bloom in the WWE are not there when he goes to Japan. For all we know, there are even more hidden gems out there that we never got a chance to see show off their best. Going through this AE project, one guy that really sticks out as an example of this is Val Venis. His once chance to wrestle lengthy matches that didn't consist of solely AE tropes and allowed him to expand (October 1999) was a total success. He never got that chance again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not really when I used a match from 2001 to show that he was already good in my eyes to begin w/. I don't need matches to go "long" for me to be convinced of the subject. I often don't like matches that go long as it is. If you can accomplish something in half the time, go for it. We're not going to connect on this subject. That's the point.

Val is kind of a poor example I'd say, b/c once he showed up in New Japan he wasn't any good. It may have been ten years later, but talent shouldn't fade completely if wanting to cut loose. There's "in your prime" & then there's "what you can still offer".


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well Val Venis by that point cared more about leftist politics than wrestling. And I don't disagree with you that you can make a decision as to whether or not you will like or dislike a wrestler from those short fun matches. But HOW good are they? That's something you can't get from watching La Parka dance around with a chair when you're missing out on his awesome brawls or from El Dandy doing absolutely nothing in his matches in WCW whereas in the early 90s in Mexico, this man was among the best in the world.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> How is it hard comparing a wrestler from Japan to a wrestler from America? Yeah, I get the notions of "stylistic differences" but really, it's not a large gaping difference. Talent is talent. And wrestling is wrestling.
> 
> Also Kawada 4 life. See, I'm still trying to keep it going. Monster K in his *Kill Bill* suit rocks my world.
> 
> ...


Bruce Lee in Game of Death is the the suit's reference, isn't it? Kicking people and all that - even does the dirty foot imprint in the match(es) I recall him coming out with that attire.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well if a wrestler worked ALL over the world, then I don't see one one area of their game should only be transfixed for the comparison. Going back to the basis of all this - Flair & Kawada - it's not hard to use everything they've done in their careers to be put next to each other. That includes Flair's tours of Japan. Now if we're going to use say La Parka or Albert/Bernard/Tensai, again, you'd use everything in their careers. Not just the stuff from one place or another.

I'm jumping to the *Kill Bill* reference b/c that's what I know & like 100x more. :draper2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Aren't you afraid that a mod will mark you down for off-topic posting? Oh wait, you are a mod.

Please tell me you approve of Jackie Brown. It's just as good as Kill Bill, which already is incredible. Pam Grier is a GOAT-y female protagonist.

Big Show impersonating Hogan :lenny


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I tend to fluctuate w/my favorite Quentin flick & atm *Jackie Brown* is on top of the list.

To keep it up...

I need to watch the rest of Backlash 2000. Only watched Eddie/Rios, Jericho/Benoit, & Rock/HHH the other day. That main event is shenanigan city, jesus christ. PUNCHES & SHENANIGANS.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> I'm jumping to the *Kill Bill* reference b/c that's what I know & like 100x more. :draper2


Terrible.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Deal w/it. 

Topical references :hb


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Deal w/it.
> 
> Topical references :hb


I wonder if you've even heard two songs by the band on your sig's shirt.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Maylene & the Sons of Disaster are a good band.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Just noticed Meltzer actually rated NXT Arrival:

Cesaro/Zayn: ****1/4
Rawley/Parker: *
Ascension/Too Cool: *1/4
Paige/Emma: **3/4
Dallas/Neville: ***1/4

--

I also continued watching Jericho matches and am about to watch the King of the Ring Match from 2001 (Triple Threat with Stone Cold and Benoit), I hope that one will be good. 

After feuding with Regal, he finally got his deserved push (but it might be due to HHH/Rock missing) together with Benoit. His TV Show matches got much better too, especially that awesome week where he first won the Tag Team Titles from HHH/Austin on RAW and then defended the titles on that awesome TLC match.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

DoubtGin said:


> Just noticed Meltzer actually rated NXT Arrival:
> 
> Cesaro/Zayn: ****1/4
> Rawley/Parker: *
> ...



Okey ratings I suppose , typical Meltzer, I have Cesaro/Zayn the full *****, and I would love to know why he gave Paige/Emma only **3/4 while AJ/Natalya from TLC got ***


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I love the Austin vs Jericho vs Benoit triple threat match. Brutal affair. Not just for Benoit; all left demolished.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> I love the Austin vs Jericho vs Benoit triple threat match. Brutal affair. Not just for Benoit; all left demolished.


Mmmmmm. Never seen that match, but have always read negative opinions on it, with Benoit and Austin suffering injuries in it.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Watched some Cactus Jack from WCW:


-	Two TV matches with Steamboat (92/5/9 and 92/8/15) were 10 minutes long in total, but nevertheless, they felt like a whole. They jam every quality imaginable into it, but without the feeling of rush, which is remarkable. ***1/2 and ***1/4.

-	There was a short but fine match with Dustin Rhodes from Main Event 92/3/1 that I really dug. Dustin is so awesome at impromptu strategies, but you already knew that. Combine it with Foley’s terrific brawling, and there you go. ***1/4.

-	The No DQ against Paul Orndorff (SuperBrawl III, I think) was beautiful. Terrific workovers from Paul, excellent selling, and very strong finish that rocked. ****1/4.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Y'all suck. Outside of one or two posters, this match seemed to be glossed over purely because its a lesser form of the PPV match. The reality of it not having any nominations in the MotY thread, either, is downright criminal. Well, it would if HayleySabin wasn't too hipster for the new system. The lil' punk.

*The Shield Vs The Wyatts (03/03/2014 WWE)* - It's almost fate that I came across a link to this match, considering my thoughts this morning lamented how Japan no longer focus on or create wild faction brawls. While this may not be Choshu or Fujiwara, the match certainly checks the boxes against chaotic violence. Rollins still holds true to his path on breaking his purported glass ceiling. His charisma oozes out of each dive and bares a striking likeness to the flatout, blitzkrieg style of Daniel Bryan that keeps the crowd so hot on him. While Seth obviously lacks the goodfeel underdog story potential, there is certainly much room for him to get over in a big way if they focus on his moveset. It's a method that's certainly got Reigns over, as he received an absolutely monstrous chant here before the teased discension. Equally interesting was Ambrose harmogenous mixture of Terry Funk mannerisms with Nigel McGuinness' signatures. I hope Ambrose makes more use of the Rebound Lariat as it can be an exceptional hope spot when built correctly and fits his spot in trio tags eloquently. 

Sadly the ending feels rather abrupt and sudden, and could have used a slightly lengthier finish section from THe Wyatt's after The Shield's hope run (if only for selfish reasoning in the hope the beauty wouldn't end). Ambrose channeling McGuinness, again, with that bell-ringing headbutt to the post was disgusting, though, and I have little issue in that bringing the match to a sudden halt. Working MotY #3.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Another House Show upload:

*Batista & Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair & Triple H - RAW House Show (Newcastle, England) - 23.04.2005*

x1j2jda


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I enjoyed the Benoit/Jericho/Austin match at first but after rewatching it recently, it went down for me big time. It's just dull and never really picks up. The injuries only make it worse as Austin is knocked out after the table spot and only rolls over to cover Benoit who broke his neck following that back suplex spot. Even Jericho put it down in his book.

And zep, I thought you said it's Batista and Benoit teaming up rather than HBK? Still thanks for the upload. Do you have any Orton house show matches from that period?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> And zep, I thought you said it's *Batista and Benoit teaming up* rather than HBK? Still thanks for the upload. Do you have any Orton house show matches from that period?


Yeah i have that one, just need to convert it first, had the other one ready so i upped that first.  Don't think i have any Orton stuff, but ill check.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Found yet another great match on the Mid South set that I some how hadn't seen before:

One Man Gang vs Big Bubba Rogers (Bossman): June 1987 for the UWF Title.


BEEF. FATTIES BUMPING FOR EACH OTHER. TWO BIG LEVIATHANS TRADING BLOWS! :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Found yet another great match on the Mid South set that I some how hadn't seen before:
> 
> One Man Gang vs Big Bubba Rogers (Bossman): June 1987 for the UWF Title.
> 
> ...


Those two were practically best friends, so they guaranteed to get something good out of each other.

Guys don't skip over Chismo's recommendation for Foley/Orndorff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I want that Mid-South set on Bluray . Fucking fremantle and their prices preventing me from buying it though. And now Clearvision have gone under? No chance of SV coming back . FUCK YOU WWE AND FREMANTLE .

Backlash 2002 Ramble is the lasted post on my blog this week. Obviously most will have seen it, but for those who haven't, it's probably worth a look to see how insane I am when it comes to Austin/Undertaker .

Think I've FINALLY narrowed down my Undertaker Streak Opponents top 10 list to an actual top 10... didn't want to cut anyone but it had to be done (THANKS CODY...). Top 4 order was easy, bottom 6 is damn near impossible :lmao. 1 week tomorrow and I start my Wrestling View WrestleMania Week! #WVWMWeek Got content planned for each day of the week, both video and written. Assuming I get this shit done :lmao. I'll still be trying to decide the order for that top 10 come WM 31... .

Might attempt to tackle Armageddon 2003 tonight. Then that leaves me with Survivor Series (which has ONE match on it worth seeing at least), and Vengeance ( :mark: ), and then I'm done with 2003! And I get to endure 2004...


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Enjoy 2004 being horrible outside of 4 shows :hb


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No different from 2003 .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Its probably better than 2003 because each show has at least one good match on it, the undercards are pretty much all horrible though 

2005 though :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I should probably put some effort into downloading the 04 shows I don't have so I can actually watch them... luckily I own all of 2005 on DVD .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Those two were practically best friends, so they guaranteed to get something good out of each other.
> 
> Guys don't skip over Chismo's recommendation for Foley/Orndorff.


I haven't skipped over it, that's definitely getting a watch today on the ol' Network. I've just been watching these Legends round table shows that they uploaded, they are so awesome. Just Gene Okerlund and 4 other legends (usually Jim Ross, Michael Hayes, and 2 others) sitting around, smoking, and talking about different topics like "Best Wildmen in Wrestling" "Best Factions" "Best Big Men" "Evolution of hardcore wrestling" etc. They are entertaining as hell to watch.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I want that Mid-South set on Bluray . Fucking fremantle and their prices preventing me from buying it though. And now Clearvision have gone under? No chance of SV coming back . FUCK YOU WWE AND FREMANTLE .
> 
> Backlash 2002 Ramble is the lasted post on my blog this week. Obviously most will have seen it, but for those who haven't, it's probably worth a look to see how insane I am when it comes to Austin/Undertaker .
> 
> ...



Can't wait to read the list. I'm gonna go chck out your BL 2002 review, you better have thrown some respect at Kidman/Tajiri.


Just finished reading it. I have to say, I don't outright HATE the Austin/Taker match like many do, but I don't think it's great or anything. Tajiri/Kidman and Eddie/RVD >>>>>> everything else on that show combined. It was so nice seeing Eddie straight kill it on his first PPV match coming back from rehab. Like you said in your review, a clean Eddie = the best wrestler in the world. I love how when Eddie gets control about halfway through, he starts getting more and more cocky and the "Latino heat" character really starts to shine. I really wonder how Eddie ever managed to get "real heat" back then, hes just so entertaining no matter how evil he gets. And THAT MULLET :mark: I know Eddie trimming his hair and going with the goatee was necessary to make him more main stream and allow Vince to put the title on him a a baby face, but there is just something awesome about Eddie with that massive mullet and mustache. It's a classic look. When he turned heel in 2005, he should have gone back to it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well I threw plenty of respect at TAJIRI .

Huh, I own SEVEN 04 PPV's on DVD. That's about 4 more than I would have guessed . Not too much downloading to do then. 3 are still in the wrapping :lmao.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cal rating Austin/Taker higher than Tajiri/Kidman :ti 

Think you went a little low on the opener cal, thought it was at least ***3/4, I have it at **** personally


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If that match is around **** then the likes of Rey/Tajiri from NM 03 need to be ***** .

Besides, Kidman kinda brings it down . Exact same match move for move with someone else probably would have gotten a higher score .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Tajiri's kicks in both of those matches, but especially backlash, are just so VICIOUS. I swear that one he nails Kidman with towards the end for the near fall must have concussed Kidman. I could watch Tajiri kick the shit out of dudes all day and never get bored.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Tajiri is such an awesome KICKER. Best in WWE history no doubt... best ever? I haven't seen enough stuff from Japan peoples to say.

TAJIRI~!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Kawada comes back again to this thread. I think his kicks > Tajiri's, but not by much.

As much as I really liked the Ruthless Aggression Era, I wouldn't call any year from 2003-2006 a good PPV year. Those brand split PPVs were rarely ever good. It's no surprise that 2002 and 2007 were fairly good years for PPVs and certainly better than anything from 2002-2006. Yes, 2007 was not that bad of a year for PPVs. Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Backlash, No Mercy, Survivor Series, Armageddon, and New Year's Revolution were all good-great shows. I'll also say that 2008, 2011, and 2012 were better years for PPVs than any from 2003-2006.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2005 was a pretty good PPV year. It still had one or two excellent main events matches for the most part but the undercards tended to be better throughout that year. And 2006 was also a solid PPV year brought down by the fact they had too many of those and the ones towards the end were kinda shit.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

For as much as I shit on 2005, I would say that it's the best PPV year out of that bunch by a good margin. It did for the most part have at least one great match in most of its PPVs, but Smackdown brand PPVs were very bad except for Armageddon 2005 and the only RAW PPV I truly loved was Vengeance. The big four though in 2005 was really strong. I'm still in shock by how much I actually enjoyed Orton/HHH at Royal Rumble. Saved that undercard and led to a great Rumble match. You guys lied to me; the WWE Championship triple threat match on that show was boring outside of Big Show hitting a spear through the barricade.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So I watched that Benoit versus Haitch 2004 MSG house show and dear god it was more glorious than even I had originally anticipated. Benoit brings some absolutely fantastic selling to HHH's methodical offence where he targets Benoit's abdominal region. The beginning of the match is Benoit trying to hook in the crossface a bunch of times and Hunter getting caught in it, with Flair going nuts on the outside too of course. The ending sequence is awesome and actually surprised me which is crazy for a house show to do. If we're talking about the stars, I'd probably go somewhere like **** 3/4*.

Thanks ZEP/HITMAN .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Funnyfaces Show/angle/JBL match at the rumble in 2005 is fucking awesome, how do you dislike that?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I enjoyed most of the PPVs from beginning to end because they felt like a fun rollercoaster ride, even through the bad stuff.

For Raw PPVs, only Vengeance is probably great but Backlash and Taboo Tuesday were both at least good. Former has Jericho/Shelton, Benoit/Edge, Kane/Viscera and a slightly better than WM rematch between HHH/Batista. TT has Flair/HHH which elevates it to good by itself, the fun triple threat main event and a good tag match with Mysterio & Hardy vs Masters & Snitsky.

Smackdown has No Mercy which is awesome too. The fatal four way, Eddie/Batista, Rey/JBL and last but not least, the awesome casket match.

NYR and GAB are among the worse ones but even then, the former has the GOAT chamber match and the latter has Eddie & Benoit saving the day. There's not a top to bottom bad PPV that year.

*EDIT:* I also watched the Benoit/HHH house show match. Didn't like it as much as Evan but I think it's better than their Vengeance match, not as good as the ironman, though.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Kawada comes back again to this thread. I think his kicks > Tajiri's, but not by much.


TAMURA. But, he was a shoot genre guy, kicking was another day in office for him. If we talk about traditional pro-graps, then it's Shinya Hashimoto, no doubt about it in my mind. Totally random, but Super Dragon deserves some shout-out for being a relentless motherfucker, also Samoa Joe from his heyday.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> So I watched that Benoit versus Haitch 2004 MSG house show and dear god it was more glorious than even I had originally anticipated. Benoit brings some absolutely fantastic selling to HHH's methodical offence where he targets Benoit's abdominal region. The beginning of the match is Benoit trying to hook in the crossface a bunch of times and Hunter getting caught in it, with Flair going nuts on the outside too of course. The ending sequence is awesome and actually surprised me which is crazy for a house show to do. If we're talking about the stars, I'd probably go somewhere like **** 3/4*.
> 
> Thanks ZEP/HITMAN .


 No worries. I'm trying to upload *Batista & Chris Benoit vs Ric Flair & Triple H - RAW House Show (Sydney, 09.04.2005)* if DM sort themselves out. :cuss:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> Y'all suck. Outside of one or two posters, this match seemed to be glossed over purely because its a lesser form of the PPV match. The reality of it not having any nominations in the MotY thread, either, is downright criminal. Well, it would if HayleySabin wasn't too hipster for the new system. The lil' punk.
> 
> *The Shield Vs The Wyatts (03/03/2014 WWE)* - It's almost fate that I came across a link to this match, considering my thoughts this morning lamented how Japan no longer focus on or create wild faction brawls. While this may not be Choshu or Fujiwara, the match certainly checks the boxes against chaotic violence. Rollins still holds true to his path on breaking his purported glass ceiling. His charisma oozes out of each dive and bares a striking likeness to the flatout, blitzkrieg style of Daniel Bryan that keeps the crowd so hot on him. While Seth obviously lacks the goodfeel underdog story potential, there is certainly much room for him to get over in a big way if they focus on his moveset. It's a method that's certainly got Reigns over, as he received an absolutely monstrous chant here before the teased discension. Equally interesting was Ambrose harmogenous mixture of Terry Funk mannerisms with Nigel McGuinness' signatures. I hope Ambrose makes more use of the Rebound Lariat as it can be an exceptional hope spot when built correctly and fits his spot in trio tags eloquently.
> 
> Sadly the ending feels rather abrupt and sudden, and could have used a slightly lengthier finish section from THe Wyatt's after The Shield's hope run (if only for selfish reasoning in the hope the beauty wouldn't end). Ambrose channeling McGuinness, again, with that bell-ringing headbutt to the post was disgusting, though, and I have little issue in that bringing the match to a sudden halt. Working MotY #3.


When one overrides the format as not being hip, the rest have to follow suit. _(lol, not really)_

At least I gave it a write-up. Before my lethargic patch swooped in. Terrific contest.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Think I've FINALLY narrowed down my Undertaker Streak Opponents top 10 list to an actual top 10... didn't want to cut anyone but it had to be done (THANKS CODY...). Top 4 order was easy, bottom 6 is damn near impossible :lmao. 1 week tomorrow and I start my Wrestling View WrestleMania Week! #WVWMWeek Got content planned for each day of the week, both video and written. Assuming I get this shit done :lmao. I'll still be trying to decide the order for that top 10 come WM 31... .


Eventually people will be sincere in thanking me.

but that list. I gots to see it. Other than the name I now know b/c of the inclusion to the East.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Eventually you'll do something to DESERVE a sincere thank you :side:.

Armageddon 03 has begun. Might not be as awful as I expected it to be... though I don't know the card outside of like 4 matches .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd say Henry vs Booker is pretty good.

Dunno about RVD/Orton or Michaels/Batista holding up. Rest of the show...yeah. There's no hope.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dammit, forgot about HBK/Batista. Not looking forward to that.

Henry/Booker is good. RVD/Orton is looking good so far.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually pimped the wyatts/shield raw match if its worth anything :side:

Came in here to say the Flair/Savage Japan Zep upload was really really good. I'm a mark for those type of match w/ american guys going over there but I thought it was really good. Smokes wm 8 imo


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Already sounds like it's more of a success for you than Unforgiven.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Superstars this week is probably better than Unforgiven 03.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE has cracked you, Cal.

Skins, watch this:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

There's a six man tag from Japan i'm trying to think of, pretty sure it's a famous one, think it involves Misawa/Kawada. Anyone help out lol. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Jumbo, Taue and Fuchi vs. Kawada, Misawa and Kobashi?

That's the most famous AJPW 6 man I can think of off the top of my head, although I've barely watched any AJPW. There's three IIRC, the first in 90, one in 91 and the final in 92. I may be wrong, but whereever I've looked they seem to be the most pimped AJPW trios.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> WWE has cracked you, Cal.


THEY CAN'T CRACK ME, I'M ALREADY CRACKED. CRACK ME. YOU CAN'T CRACK ME. I'M ALREADY CRACKED.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Misses/Kawada/Kobashi vs. Tsuruta/Taue/Fuchi


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Flux said:


> Jumbo, Taue and Fuchi vs. Kawada, Misawa and Kobashi?
> 
> That's the most famous AJPW 6 man I can think of off the top of my head, although I've barely watched any AJPW. There's three IIRC, the first in 90, one in 91 and the final in 92. I may be wrong, but whereever I've looked they seem to be the most pimped AJPW trios.


Thanks Flux, that's the one (91). There is also Misawa/Kobashi/Akiyama vs Kawada/Taue/Ogawa (07/02/93), i was trying to think of too and just have lol. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Chismo said:


> TAMURA. But, he was a shoot genre guy, kicking was another day in office for him. If we talk about traditional pro-graps, then it's Shinya Hashimoto, no doubt about it in my mind. Totally random, but Super Dragon deserves some shout-out for being a relentless motherfucker, also Samoa Joe from his heyday.


If we're going the HM route, I'd also take KENTA as well.

Tamura and Kawada would be my picks. I honestly don't care for Hashimoto, which probably is sacreligious, but Kawada had the variety and _meanness_ to him (and foam shoes!) which really amped up the intensity. Hashimoto has the chamber kicks, but meh, it doesn't do much for me generally.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone else uploaded to DM today? Uploaded video fine but the encoding bar is just not going up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Armageddon 2003*

Armageddon is here... but will I survive it?


*Mark Henry Vs Booker T*

Ooooo, starting the show off with MARK HENRY? Show might have something worthwhile after all!

His opponent is Booker T? Well this might not be that good...

Love how this SINGLES match is a follow up from a STREET FIGHT .

Booker T has been mauled and destroyed in recent weeks so I like him going right after Henry and just blasting him in the face and clubbing the shit out of his back. 

HENRY STRENTH~! Puts a stop to any Booker T offence. Which is awesome. Because fuck Booker T offence .

Hmmmm, Booker actually looks GOOD in this early on. He's using a mix of his superior speed and VETERAN INSTINCTS to try and keep Henry at bay and ground him, hopefully taking the STRENGTH out of the equation.

TEDDY DISTRACTION~!

:mark: now we get to see Henry dominate Booker. Awesome backbreaker, followed up with a modified Bow and Arrow submission which looks NASTY and is one of the less dull holds that Henry could have used (thankfully. Last thing we need is a damn NERVE GRIP lol).

Ahhh fuck, SLEEPER HOLD. Come on Mark, you better than this homie. Yeah a sleeper from HENRY looks more brutal than a small guy, but it's still just someone sat in a hold taking up time. Yey it doesn't last long!

Motherfucker, bear hug. STOP IT NOW, MARK.

Again thankfully the hold isn't applied for long. I guess I'd rather have 3 submission holds for very short periods with Booker making a comeback only to be cut off over one stupidly long hold.

THAT FUCKING CLOTHESLINE :mark:. Booker T is DEAD.

Booker T starts to come back, landing some huge kicks but can't budge the World's Strongest Man.

AXE KICK~!

HENRY KICKS OUT!!! :mark:

SPINEBUSTER BY HENRY. Surprised the ring held up on that one tbh lol. 

Henry is back to just mauling Booker :mark:. But Booker refuses to stay down!

POWERBOMB... SORT OF! Looked like Henry got Booker up but Booker slipped off and just landed as if he'd been powerbombed lol. Luckily it wasn't botched to all hell with him landing on his neck.

AXE KICK #2~!

Henry is defeated. Good match! I kinda wanna check out their street fight now.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


FOLEY~! He's got 1 million signatures for the "give Austin his job back" petition or something. Brings out FAP FAP STACY in a cheerleader outfit to celebrate. FOLEY IS GOD.

Orton and Flair interrupt. Booooo. More Stacy's ass, less Randy Orton and Flair please. Blah Blah Blah Orton saying stuff. Foley is the referee for the Orton/RVD match? Don't remember that at all lol. Foley decides the match is happening now.


*RVD Vs Randy Orton - Intercontinental Championship Match - Special Referee Mick Foley*

Lol, RVD does his "R. V. D." pose, Orton tries to kick him, gets caught and RVD sweeps his legs and punches him in the face a few times .

:lmao I've never liked RVD as much as I do right now. First 5 minutes of this match see RVD absolutely destroy Orton . KICKS~! FLIPS~! MOAR KICKS~!

Then I end up liking Orton for shoving RVD off the ropes face first into the barricade . 

It's just fun watching both of these man take a beating .

:mark: that fucking DROPKICK on the outside. Rare I mark for a sodding DROPKICK lol, but that was done to perfection!!!

:lmao RVD getting choked on the ropes is the FUNNIEST THING EVER. He's spazzing out, making fast noises and making Cena look like a good actor :lmao.

FLAIR AND FOLEY STAND OFF :mark:.

Orton is wrestling this match nice and smartly, targeting the HEAD of RVD which is injured or something from a top rope RKO the week before maybe? I forget. 

FUCKING CLOTHESLINES~! Orton is bringing out plenty of sick looking clotheslines and RVD is bumping awesomely for all of them.

Plenty of varied offence from the LEGEND KILLER in this one as he continues to go after the head, but at the same time he does keep going back to that DAMN HEADLOCK.

Good comeback from RVD, his offence looks decent against Orton, though that might be because 90% of the kicks to the face look like they legitimately connect :lmao.

DDT FROM THE ROPES~!

RVD kicks out but he is FUCKED from the DDT still. Good selling of his head.

FLAIR tries to nail RVD with brass knucks, but Foley intercepts! RVD is distracted enough though for Orton to dropkick him off the ropes!

RKO~!

NEW IC CHAMP~!

Great match. Could have done with less of the headlock, but everything else was damn good. RVD selling his head actually shocked me, he's one of those guys to fucking ignore limb work and shit as he goes into the finishing stretch.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*Chris Jericho & Christian Vs Trish Stratus & Lita*

Jericho and Christian make a bet over 1 Canadian dollar that they can nail either Trish or Lita first. Trish is falling for Jericho but finds out about the bet. Match is made :lmao.

Jericho though is having regrets because he realises he does actually have feelings for Trish.

TRISH & LITA FAP FAP TAG TEAM.

Trish slaps the shit out of Jericho, so Jericho grabs her and... SPANKS HER :lmao. I'm sure that'll help...

Jericho is trying to prevent Trish from hurting him while not actually doing anything to her, so CHRISTIAN tags himself and and shoves Trish half way across the ring and dares LITA to get in the match :lmao.

HEADBUTT TO CHRISTIAN :lmao.

:lmao LITA is dominating Christian. And not in the way he wants .

Jericho nails LITA from behind... but not in the way he wants . Seems Jericho has no problem beating up LITA. Bastard. YOU LEAVE HER ALONE!!!

CHRISTIAN STRIPPING LITA~!

What a CREEPY LITTLE BASTARD. Though I don't blame him :side:.

HOT TAG TO TRISH~! Which goes nowhere because, you know, women Vs man .

FUCK ME at that Clothesline to Trish. Christian damn near killed her.

LITACANRANA~!

Jericho smashes her against a wall. But not in the way he wants to .

ROLL UP TO TRISH BY CHRISTIAN~! This is done lol.

What a crazy match, but you know what? IT'S ACTUALLY FUCKING GOOD. I swear to god.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Shawn Michaels Vs Batista*

Orton had an AWFUL match with Shawn at Unforgiven. If Batista has a better match I'll :lmao.

Shawn sticking and moving early on, jabbing away at Batista and avoiding the POWER of the jacked up newbie.

Batista is PISSED. I guess I understand, can't imagine being jabbed in the face is much fun .

Shawn keeps chipping away at Batista, which makes the beast ANGRY and prone to make mistakes, so FLAIR has to calm him down on the outside. The whole Evolution thing was such an awesome idea. HHH as the "main eventer" doing what he does, then 2 rookies with FLAIR always in their corner to give them advice and wisdom well beyond their years. A perfect dynamic.

:lmao this is looking INFINATELY better than the Orton/HBK match. HBK looks like the veteran, meanwhile Batista uses his POWER to overcome his inexperience and Flair on the outside is always there to throw him some advice. Match has a structure and a story, unlike the Orton match that was a pure MESS.

BACK WORK~!

Everything Batista does is BASIC AS SHIT... but it all looks damn good, and HBK sells everything like he's in the worst pain ever. Shame HBK has to kip up TWICE despite the back work lol.

CHOKE COUNTERED INTO A DDT~! Nice callback to the build up of this match, where Batista picked up HBK with a double handed choke and caused INTERNAL BLEEDING. HBK knew it was coming this time and countered.

ELBOW DROP~!

HBK is tuning up the band!!!

SUPERKICK COUNTERED INTO A SPINEBUSTER~!

ANOTHER SPINEBUSTER~! Shawn's back is fucked!!!

Batista shows his greenness here though, taking his time between moves and slowly picking up HBK for a Powerbomb, giving old HBK time to counter into a superkick!!! HBK wins!!!

Yeah this was GOOD!!! This entire event so far is shocking the absolute FUCK out of me. Blows the Orton/HBK match out of the water.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Maven Vs Matt Hardy*

:lmao I think this might be the beginning of the end for this PPV.

Batista is still in the ring pissed off that he lost, so Matt and Maven start their match on the ramp :lmao.

Matt throws Maven into the ring and Batista takes his frustration out on the Tough Enough winner . And I think that's the end of this :lmao.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*La Resistance Vs The Hurricane & Rosey Vs Lance Cade & Mark Jindrak Vs Val Venis & Lance Storm Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Scott Steiner & Test Vs Batista & Ric Flair - World Tag Team Championship Tag Team Turmoil Match*

ROSEY IS THE SHIT! Literally :lmao. SUPER HERO IN TRAINING~!

:lmao poor Hurricane...










Holy fuck at Rosey just dumping (get it, SHIT, dumping... LOL) one of the Frenchies to the floor. Hurricane and Rosey eliminate La Resistance, then get jumped from behind by Jindrak and Cade and rolled up for the win in seconds!

STORM AND VENIS. What an odd pairing...

Storm is in the middle... beginning... I don't know exactly... of his "trying not to be boring" run. So he does a couple of "flashy" moves and poses for the fans, then gets decked in the face :lmao. 

Fun little match between these two teams, with Cade & Jindrak cheating to victory.

THE DUDLEY BOYS~! The tag champs are here!

:lmao Bubba goes to clothesline Cade, and he really leans forward with it to get more POWER into the move, but Cade moves and Bubba just falls into the roles like a retard :lmao.

Sweet LARIAT from Jindrak.

Bubba CRASHES into the steel steps, sending the top half right into the fucking camera man I think :lmao.

3-D~! Bubba and D-Von are confused as to who the legal man is and both cover :lmao.

:lmao I forgot Steiner and Test ended up teaming after battling all year over who gets to fuck Stacy. Guess they decided on each other? 

Weakest. Elbow drop. Ever.

Fuck me this is DULL. Val/Storm Vs Cade/Jindrak was the best part of all this. Should have given them 15 minutes to do their shit.

Dudley's retain their belts until...

I'M BACK, AND BETTER THAN EVER!!! Bischoff adds Batista & Flair to the match!!!

BATISTA BOMB~! New tag team champions!!!

Overall the match sucks. Like I said, Val/Storm Vs Cade/Jindrak was the best part of all this.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Molly Holly Vs Ivory - WWE Women's Championship Match*

Wow, my first NO for the event! I'm still shocked how good this show has been overall so far despite the last match and now me skipping this.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Goldberg Vs Kane Vs Triple H - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Oh boy. I don't see this being that good... .

HHH and Kane start things off teaming up against Goldberg. I'm shocked. A triple threat with 2 heels and they team up against the babyface? THIS IS REVOLUTIONARY~!

Not even 2 men are enough to take out Goldberg though, as he quickly fights them both off.

Kane and Goldberg then decide to punch each other in the face, while HHH hangs around the outside of the ring like a coward .

:lmao HHH sucks at taking a military press. Every time I've seen Goldberg try it on HHH in all their matches so far, HHH seems to struggle, which causes Goldberg to not be able to fully execute the lift. HHH BURRYING GOLDBERG~!

OH MY GOD HHH WENT FOR A COVER AFTER KANE SLAMMED GOLDBERG AND IT LOOKS LIKE KANE IS GONNA ATTACK HHH THIS IS INCREDIBLE I'VE NEVER SEEN THIS DONE BEFORE WHAT A REFRESHING TRIPLE THREAT FORMULA!!!

HHH DECKS KANE WITH A CHAIR~!

Kane comes back in and actually stops Goldberg from shattering HHH's ankle because... apparently hitting Kane in the fact with a steel chair is the best way to make friends with him?

HHH returns the favour, saving Kane from going through the table.

CHOKESLAM TO GOLDBERG THROUGH THE TABLE~!

No wait, the table didn't break :lmao. So HHH tells Kane to put Goldberg back on the table and elbow drops him aka HHH's go to move for when a table doesn't break .

And now HHH and Kane officially turn on each other...

Kane channels HOMER SIMPSON as he punches HHH... "DUFF, DUFF DUFF, DOH!" :lmao.

CHOKESLAM ON THE STEEL RAMPWAY~!

SPEAR~! Goldberg is back and he just SPEARED Kane to hell!

All 3 men fight for a while and then SPEAR TO KANE AGAIN~!

SPEAR TO HHH~!

Evolution show up because it's no DQ. ANOTHER SPEAR TO HHH lol.

CHOKESLAM TO GOLDBERG~! Batista drags Kane out of the ring while HHH makes the cover and becomes the new WHC. EVOLUTION WITH ALL THE GOLD.

This match isn't awful or anything... it's just kinda there for me. Nothing really stands out whatsoever. Still better than I was expecting, like the rest of the event lol.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 10*​


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Backlash 2009 

Christian vs Jack Swagger ****
Chris Jericho vs Ricky Steamboat ***3/4
CM Punk vs Kane ***1/2
Matt Hardy vs Jeff Hardy *1/2
TripleShaneTista vs Legacy ***1/2
John Cena vs Edge **3/4

Opener is just terrific. Abdominal work is actually interesting, and it's sold incredibly well by Christian. I'm not a big Swagger enthusiast, but the guy can work. I feel like WWE though has done a great job of not making me care much about him. Commentators were pimping a Swagger/Cena match. Think I remember it, but I should probably check that out. 

Barely a reaction for Steamboat fpalm. Pls go. Those arm drags :mark: Ricky botching the fuck outta the Figure Four though :lol Not that Steamboat was expected to win, but they did a terrific job of suspending belief with the late nearfalls. 

Only barely remembered this little feud happening. Match result is strange, but considering how they booked future MITB winners, it's no so surprising. Match itself is pretty solid, with a strong showing from Punk, and pretty good selling of the arm from Kane. 

:lol at Matt's jacket from 1776. Looking back, I think they did a fine job building to this match, going back to Survivor Series, but the matches just didn't do it for me. Especially have little interest with Matt playing this type of heel. His Mattitude stuff was a bit entertaining, but he was so dry in 2009, until he turned face again, I guess. What a fucking snoozer this is. Jeff pulling out the Texas Cloverleaf was cool. Matt tapping to the Cloverleaf, but when the ref asked him if he wanted to quit, he said no. Okay then. The booking of this match really made so sense, with all the submissions. This was a heated feud between two brothers, that was supposed to be the big end to their program. I would have expected more of a brawl instead of going the submission route. Sure the submissions do damage but it didn't make sense in the context of the feud. LOL at Jeff pulling out the duct tape and tying Matt down. At least I know that the end of the match is near. Worst match of this show so far. Biggest pop of the night so far is Jeff pulling out the ladder. Matt quits. "Matt loves you" :lmao :lmao Jeff doesn't care. Butt bomb off the ladder for the exclamation point. I already rated the match low, but it lost half a star for that speech at the end. 

Khali kiss cam :rock5 Santina Marella :StephenA Fast forwarding.

Shane :mark; Dat dance. Dat theme. :mark: So many great themes in this match. Here Comes the Money, I Walk Alone, The Game. Legacy should have come out to the Legacy theme. Voices is alright. Jerry Lawler saying this may be the first ever six man tag match with the WWE title on the line fpalm. I remember when I first got back into wrestling around the summer of 2008, and had never even heard of Orton. The feud with Hunter in early 2009 the first introduction I had to him, and I remember just loving the entire build, especially to Mania. As I've gone back and watched Orton, I feel he's just brought the quality (in this case, tag matches) down with his methodical pace, and this match is no different. When Trips ran off Orton early on, the pace was pretty nice, with quick tags and a good bit of action. But Orton comes back and does his methodical limb stopping, which I know was part of the Viper gimmick, it just starts dragging. Middle section loses me a little bit. You can say that Shane sells well, but he just lays. Hot tag to the Game though :mark: Eh, match dropped big time on this viewing. Liked it a good bit on the last watch. 

No way Cena should have gotten up from the Con-Chair-to. If Hunter gets punted in the skull and has to be stretchered out after not working nearly as long as Cena did, then Cena shouldn't have gotten up so fast after having a steel chair bashed his skull, while lay on a steel grate. Match barely interested me. 

Disappointing last three matches to what started off as a really good show.

Edit: If mine gets buried because I posted pretty much the same time as Cal. :kobe2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> *Overall CAL SCALE - 10*


So much for all this talk of it being the worst thing ever.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HHH great review man, I love the first 2 matches on that show. I got pissed that Ricky didn't get the pop he deserved too. Hell of a match for a guy over 50 who hadn't wrestled (other than WM 25) in a decade and a half.

Christian/Swagger is fucking awesome. Not as good as their ECW TV match (which is an all timer as far as I'm concerned) but still, tremendous stuff.

Cal: you know the score, great review as always. Love the Jericho/Christian vs Lita/Trish review :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Edge/Cena exemplified not only how annoying Edge can be as a wrestler, but it also shows how bad Cena can be with gimmick matches. I'll never understand how such a good wrestler always settles to wrestle a "spot-rest-spot" style where wrestlers beat the shit out of him and he beats the shit out of someone else, but both guys just kick out/stand up and no-sell everything. When Cena decides to wrestle a gimmick match based on him playing a natural underdog and a defined face/heel dynamic instead of "wrestling the gimmick" and foregoing storytelling, he can formulate a classic. Until then, I'll actually go ahead and say that John Cena is a below average gimmick match wrestler.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Love most of Backlash 09, a great event. Swagger/Christian is great and the 2nd best match they had together. STEAMBOAT is awesome against Jericho, Kane/Punk is a good match which surprised me at the time, and the 6 man for the title is awesome. Rest of the show is poo but the other matches more than make up for it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cal I don't know if you need any more ideas for your WM columns on your site, but two ideas just popped into my head:

1. You wrote a column on the "Ultimate PPV" for the year 2000, where you took matches from every PPV of the year and formed a card, not allowing the s e wrestler to be used twice. Well, couldn't that idea work for an "Ultimate WrestleMania" card? You choose the 8 best matches only using previous WM cards for your selection pool, never using the same wrestler twice, and all the major titles have to be defended (WHC, WWE Championship, IC, Tag Team).

2. You use that same time machine theme from the Streak idea, and create the Greatest WM card of all time. Limit yourself to 8 matches, no wrestler can be used twice, you choose gimmicks for certain matches, make sure there is variety like a real WM card would have (have a tag match, a triple threat or 4 way dance, etc.). Could be a pretty cool concept if your provide written explanations for why you chose certain guys.

You can also do stuff like "20 greatest WM matches ever" or rank all the WM's with brief explanations using the Cal scale. That stuff has been done before by other sites so it's not original or anything, but it could be a fun read if you give good write ups for your opinions.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Cal I don't know if you need any more ideas for your WM columns on your site, but two ideas just popped into my head:
> 
> 1. You wrote a column on the "Ultimate PPV" for the year 2000, where you took matches from every PPV of the year and formed a card, not allowing the s e wrestler to be used twice. Well, couldn't that idea work for an "Ultimate WrestleMania" card? You choose the 8 best matches only using previous WM cards for your selection pool, never using the same wrestler twice, and all the major titles have to be defended (WHC, WWE Championship, IC, Tag Team).


Way ahead of you . Wrote it last year and it was originally intended for my WM special but it never got done because of a bunch of shit, so it was going to be in this year's vid and then I decided to leave it out and have it as written content instead so I had enough for the week lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cal, any idea if videos encode on DM even if you are offline.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Way ahead of you . Wrote it last year and it was originally intended for my WM special but it never got done because of a bunch of shit, so it was going to be in this year's vid and then I decided to leave it out and have it as written content instead so I had enough for the week lol.



Oh, awesome. Looking forward to reading it then


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You post your Streak opponents thing yet, Cal?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Hitman said:


> Cal, any idea if videos encode on DM even if you are offline.


Yep. Once the video has been uploaded, it's on the site's server and that does the encoding, nothing to do with you or your internets.



The Lady Killer said:


> You post your Streak opponents thing yet, Cal?


Nope, will be posted on my BLOG~! during #WVWMWeek (Wrestling View's WrestleMania Week) which starts 31st March . Unless my schedule changes around, that particular piece will be posted on April 3rd (Thursday).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Yep. Once the video has been uploaded, it's on the site's server and that does the encoding, nothing to do with you or your internets.


Great, thanks Cal. Uploaded a video earlier and it just isn't encoding atm.


----------



## NewJack's Shank (Jan 29, 2012)

As I still haven't purchased the WWE Network, I just found your channel Hitman awesome stuff. I was looking for new Wrestling channels as im tired of WrestlingChallenge just uploading WCW 2000 shit


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Since I'm bored and have been watching a TON of WCW lately on the Network, I decided to make a top 30 matches in WCW list:

*******
1. Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat 2/3 Falls Clash of the Champions 1989
2. Ricky Steamboat vs Rick Rude 30 Minute IronMan Beach Blast 1992
3. Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio Mask vs Title Halloween Havoc 1997
4. Steven Regal vs Belfast Bruiser Uncensored 1996
5. Ricky Steamboat vs Vader Human Cage Saturday Night 1992
6. Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat Chi-Town Rumble 1989
7. Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat WrestleWar 1989
8. Miracle Violence Connection vs Steiner Brothers Clash of the Champions 1992
9. The Midnight Express vs The Southern Boys Great American Bash 1990
10. Terry Funk vs Ric Flair Great American Bash 1989
11. WarGames Match 1992
12. Terry Funk vs Ric Flair I Quit Clash of the Champions 1989

*****3/4*
13. Ric Flair vs Vader Starrcade 1993
14. Larry Zybysko/Arn Andersom/Bobby Eaton vs Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat/Nikita Koloff 2/3 Falls Saturday Night 1992
15. Sting vs Vader Strap Match SuperBrawl III 1993
16. Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Jericho Fall Brawl 1997 
17. Ricky Steamboat vs Steven Regal Fall Brawl 1993
18. Brian Pillman vs Jushin Liger SuperBrawl II 1992
19. Steve Austin vs Ricky Steamboat Clash of the Champions 1994
20. WarGames Match 1991

*****1/2*
21. Sting vs Cactus Jack Falls Count Anywhere Beach Blast 1992
22. Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Benoit Nitro November 1995
23. Chris Benoit vs MENG Texas Death Match Slamboree 1997
24. Chris Benoit vs Finlay TV Title Slamboree 1998
25. Dustin Rhodes vs Vader Clash of the Champions 1992
26. Dustin Rhodes vs Bunkhouse Buck Spring Stampede 1994
27. Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat Spring Stampede 1994
28. Ric Flair vs Sting Great American Bash 1990
29. Steve Austin vs Ricky Steamboat Bash at the Beach 1994
30. Steve Austin/Vader vs Ric Flair/Arn Anderson Saturday Night 1993

Now I'll just wait for someone to point out a blatantly obvious match I've some how forgotten. For the record I didn't include any match before 1988, as I consider that all JCP/NWA, and not WCW.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally fecking encoded. 

*Batista & Chris Benoit vs Ric Flair & Triple H - RAW House Show (Sydney, 09.04.2005)*

x1j5mnj


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Anyone here seen the movie Judge Dredd? The original with Sylvester Stallone, not the remake.

Anyways, I'm watching it right now, and something just came to my attention. You know when the transport crashes, and that crazy hillbilly family (very similar to the Wyatt's, actually) kidnaps Dredd and Rob Schneider? Well the insane, cannibalistic, indestructible, bad ass, half man half machine cyborg that tries to kill Dredd and eat his face, is named MENG. How fucking fitting is that? :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What's even crazier is that "Haku" literally translates to "shit" in my native language. But Meng sounds like a monster name.

You need some cruiserweight goodies on your list.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> What's even crazier is that "Haku" literally translates to "shit" in my native language. But Meng sounds like a monster name.
> 
> You need some cruiserweight goodies on your list.



I think I had 4-5 on my top 30, there would be a lot more if I did a top 50. That's what I'm working my way up to. I did a top 100 for WWE, I want to do a top 100 for WCW as well, along with top 100's for Eddie, Foley, and Benoit. Which Cruiserweight matches do you feel got snubbed from my list?

P.s. What's your native language? I googled it and couldn't come up with any languages where Haku means shit.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Unforgiven 2000 review 

Match #1: The Dudley Boys & APA Vs Right to Censor
*
So an 8 man tag match start things off here and I think that the APA and Dudley boys will carry the fuck out of that terrible right to censor team, I mean, who thought giving the godfather a different gimmick was a good idea? Decent match here that did its job perfectly as the opener to get the crowd hot. I will say that the Dudleys as faces are nowhere near as fun as they were when they were putting bitches through tables, are they still heels? If so, heel vs heel matchup but everyone seemed to be behind the good team and not the shitty boring team. Anyways solid tag team match and thankfully the godfather was barely ever in the match, he might not have been in it at all for all I know :lol. RTC win, nobody is happy, pretty good match nonetheless and I really liked the last minute of it and that put this over the top. ***3/4 

CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #2: Tazz vs Jerry Lawler *

Considering that Jerry Lawler was able to put on two good matches with the FUCKING MIZ a couple years ago then I suspect that this should be decent enough, although Lawler has had some bad matches too, his NYR match vs that terrorist guy is horrible. This was actually really fun and a whole hell lot of :mark: brawling. Also liked the use of the strap throughout and Tazz being a heel in this was fucking awesome. Ending was pretty cool too with the debut of Raven who went on to have a pretty disappointing run in the WWF but he DDT’s Lawler here and makes an impactful debut in the WWF. Atch overall is great and showed that even though Lawler was old he could still work a match, at least in 2000. ***1/4 

CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #3: Steve Blackman Vs Al Snow Vs Crash Holly Vs Perry Saturn Vs Test Vs Funaki*

This sounds like it could be fucking fantastic :mark:. :lmao at Al Snow who as the European champion has decided to represent a different European country every match. Tonight he’s Italy. :mark: :mark: :mark: this match was awesome, loved every fucking moment of it from start to finish, these kind of matches imo define how awesome 2000 was, this was 10 minutes of unrelenting silliness and comedy and they managed to make the title credible at the same time due to everyone in the match putting it all on the line to get the title. :lmao at Al snow in this match, he uses things like a butterfly net and a pizza box as weapons, only Al Snow can do that :lol. Anyways FUN FUN FUN match, all should watch. ****1/4

CAL SCALE: 2 

Match #4: X-Pac vs Chris Jericho *

I hear this is really good, not a huge fan of DA PAC but hopefully this will be good. No one really cares about pac so his entrance is filled with that famous X-PAC HEAT that people now call BOOTISTA HEAT. Loved this match, just a fantastic back and forth contest by both men and if it wasn’t for the Bret hart match that I remember being good it might be one of X-pac’s better matches, although let the record show I have barely seen anything from him so its not like there is much to be compared to, although I have found that he is ok at best in the ring. Anyways this was just really good and lived up to the hype that was created by a discussion ITT about 2 weeks ago I believe. Loved the last few minutes too, some really fun near falls that made the match really exciting. Also, the top rope dive into the Walls worked perfectly, great match. ****3/4 

CAL SCALE: 4 

Match #5: Hardy boyz vs Edge and Christian- cage match* 

This should be really good because I feel like these two never had a bad match and really held the tag division in 2000. I guess after the :mark: TLC match at Summerslam the Dudleyz were given the shaft and we got these two feuding by themselves, I guess that worked out for the best here. Great match here, just a full on BRAWL between these 4. Thought it was pretty funny that Jeff basically gets murdered throughout the entire match after being thrown off the cage like 2 minutes into the match. Though he comes back big time with the SWANTON OFF THE CAGE :mark:. That was awesome exceot for the fact that it makes no sense that Matt stayed where he was and that Jeff kind of landed in between him, making it more painful for him than it was for Edge :lol. Overall though I think this will be MOTN as this was just a great ride. *****

CAL SCALE: 5 

Match #6: Eddie Gurrero vs Rikishi *

Didn’t think much of this at all, only parts I enjoyed were Eddies selling and Chyna taking a superkick from Kishi, which was awesome btw. The match just seemed like complete filler which undermined the value of the IC title. DQ ending was OK I guess, just because Chyna sold the kick well, but I wish the ref didn’t see it or some shit like that so we could have gotten a decisive ending.* * 

CAL SCALE: 0 

Match#7: Kurt Angle vs HHH *

Hmm this good be really good or really bad, I think their match at the rumble in 2001 is a pretty underrated match so maybe I just for some reason like their chemistry so I will enjoy this too, maybe not though and I’ll think it’s a 20 minute borefest. The first 5-7 minutes of this were actually a lot of fun and Steph was looking hot as fuck tonight so that helped my enjoyment when the camera continued to go to her :mark:. They did a big table spot and after that all the enjoyment I had in this really went away. I liked how HHH sold the ribs in the beginning but as the match went on he started to completely no sell ribs which took me COMPLETELY out of the match for some reason. So heres a tip Hunter, going Kofi Kingston style with the selling is not a good move. So match sucked for the most part, just wasn’t much here outside the first 5 minutes and Steph giving the low blow to Angle :lmao. ***

CAL SCALE: 0.5 

Match #8: The Rock vs Kane vs The Undertaker vs Chis Benoit *

This should be :mark: because TAKER AND BENOIT TOGETHER :mark:. These two had a match at a ppv in England after this so that should be a match to enjoy soon, might do Rebellion next, that or SVS . Fun match here, probably the #3 match of the night behind the cage match and Pac/Jericho, which just means that this was an extremely well rounded ppvs because there are for sure shows out there where this would be easily MOTN but this show was just too good for it to be. This just flowed well because there was always some action going on in the ring because there was so many people. I really liked the Rock and Benoit in this, but Taker and Kane did well too. All in all a slightly above average match that worked fine as the main event although seeing Benoit get screwed out of the title twice was sad . ****1/4 

CAL SCALE: 2 

FINAL CAL SCALE: 15.5 

Current 2000 PPV rankings 

1: Judgment day (20)
2: The Royal Rumble (17)
3: Unforgiven(15.5)
4: WrestleMania 2000(13)
5: King of the ring(11) 
6: Insurrextion (8.5)
7: Armageddon(4)*​


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Your review is useless because of your racist remarks.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

'With that terrorist guy' :lol


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I honestly coudn't remember his name, coudn't be arsed to look it up too :lol 

Muhammad Hassan was the guy I was talking about, his gimmick was a terrorist right?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

People like you are the reason why Vince McMahon gives us gimmicks like Santino.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

No, it's not :ti

I actually like Trips/Angle, but the ending is stupid.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> Muhammad Hassan was the guy I was talking about, his gimmick was a terrorist right?


:lmao :lmao 


In what incredibly incorrect language does Haku mean SHIT!? ''Meng'' better mean ''fucking redonkulous''.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

In all fairness this DOES seem like something a terrorist would do.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

took forever but it's done.

Fucking Fourway or something (should have called it “Shitty Idea”)

Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre
Kofi was a mixed bag. I guess I’ve never really hated his selling – maybe he’s below average, but I can’t call him really THAT bad on the sell. Well maybe he’s kind of a no-seller, but when ACTUALLY selling, like short term selling or selling of a limb, he’s watchable. Drew decides to focus on the arm with ring post shots and holds and a great boot-ass boot to the pec/shoulder, and Kofi actually kept the selling going for a bit after the work was over and he was struggling to get back on top. His offense is and always has been disgustingly bad. I will give him that with the whole Drew shitting on Teddy Long thing, Kofi at least seemed really angry and vengeful with most of his offense, but holy shit it is just so fluffy. 90% of the kicks and elbows he was throwing looked ridiculous because McIntyre was selling normally for him…so it looked like Drew was overselling. Kind of like when William Regal sells something by unnecessarily screaming his head off. I do hate Kingston’s kicks and stuff, but at the very least with some good selling I can kind of turn my head and ignore just HOW bad they look. I cannot say the same for Kingston’s….well I don’t fucking know what it is, do I? You know those stupid fucking double palm chest slap thingys he does? Sort of what he does when a normal wrestler would do a clothesline? God those are unspeakably bad. Scary bad. I’ve never been a fan of Chris Benoit doing that sort of thing but at least when he does it, it looks mental and violent like he’s just yelling ‘I can throw my arms out and they are so chunky you get knocked over’. Kofi’s are…fuck. Honestly one of my least favourite wrestling offense things I can ever think of. OK, now IDK what impression I’ve given but I really, really liked this. Kofi may have ranged from watchable to worthless, but McIntyre is 1000% great. Arm work I’ve already mentioned, the great transitions like chop block on the apron and ballistic elbow throwing, bumping into the barricade, spiking himself on DDTs, stomps that would make footprints in your skin, throwing powerbomb. I think this is the point where he gets outstanding. The Teddy Long stuff at the end felt like a fine enough feel-good moment that I was able to get into it. Wasn’t too happy when I first saw the ref bump, but it worked, I think. Drew had a great face when Teddy didn’t count 3. Honestly between Kofi’s horrible offense, McIntyre being awesome, the iffy ref bump, and the ‘full circle’-ness of it all, I had no idea whether to add this or not. Um. No, yeah, fuck it I’m adding this. Wait, no. Um. I literally had to backspace ‘ADDING’. Um……I don’t know. I want to. Uh. Shit. Fuck you. NO! I’m going with gut. Ah fuck my gut. But I’ll throw it in anyway. ADDING.

Eve v. Maryse v. Gail Kim v. the other one who actually won the match
Congratulations, your match was considerably worse than Kofi Kingston’s. NOT ADDING.

Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne
Finally, a fucking Bourne singles match on PPV. Unfortunately it’s against Jericho who in 2010 couldn’t have a good match to save his life. Seriously, I don’t know how you have a worthless match with Evan Bourne, but he managed it. HAH, I’m kidding. This was super. I was pretty stoked for the beginning because Jericho was controlling the match nicely and Evan is a great seller, but it actually kind of went on and off in a way I thought was really well done. Jericho wouldn’t actually control the match so much as he would just TRY to control the match. The theme of Bourne being a challenger to the guy who was a world champion ten years ago kind of fits that build, so it felt completely right for it. The match never really seemed to go into that ‘’control’’ period. It was mostly back-and-forth, but I have no gripes with it because it was pretty damn good back-and-forth. I think the only ‘’bad’’ back-and-forth part I can remember is Jericho meeting Bourne at the top rope after taking a spinning DDT. Reminded me of Kurt Angle’s belly-to-belly insistence. Other than that this was full of cool spots and some pretty smartly worked wobbly stand-up stuff in between. The kind of standing up where whoever can actually stay on their feet without tripping over will win the match. Got some great bumps, too. Jericho took this bump to the outside where he flopped over the apron like I’m not sure I’ve seen before. Then Bourne does one almost as cool where he pretty much hits his head on the ground and then, like, slides a little. Codebreaker looked about as legit as I can remember. I kind of don’t like that move at all; it’s backyard-y to me, and there’s something so unnatural about it. But here we had an exhausted Jericho hitting it awkwardly with one knee and a just-as-exhausted Bourne collapsing instead of doing the ‘’spring’’; it was a lot more gritty looking. Instead of being a ‘’superstar finisher!!!’’, it was a knee to a dude’s fucking face. They worked some good pop flash pins almost-wins for a bit, and Jericho reversing things into the walls was a plus. Great win for Bourne, it’s a shame he can’t lay off the drugs because the company has clearly liked him a few times. Maybe sort of. Honestly I can’t think of any instance of something truly truly GREAT in this match, and the back-and-forth stuff didn’t have amazing selling or transitions, so that kind of makes me think if I had watched it in a week instead of tonight I wouldn’t like it as much. I don’t know if that’s true, but if is - then I’m glad I watched it tonight. ADDING.

Jack Swagger v. Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk v. The Big Show
First thought on seeing the four guys in the match was ‘’how could not be good?’’ Second thought was ‘’it’s a fourway’’. And it was not good. Basic idea was that Punk and Swagger would team v. Rey before Show….walked towards them. Then it was basically Show v. the World which is usually more interesting than this. Like, the early 2011 fourway did Show v. the World and I honestly think that’s a contender for best fourway of all time. Not that I like them to begin with, but that one is so, so, so much fun. This was not. The Big Show did….things. The three of them did things to him, but, like, whatever. I was apathetic to all of it. I don’t know if I can call most of it bad, but it was more toward bad than good. What WAS bad was the DDT Rey got on Show. That’s the kind of thing that grown men in the audience boo Rey for because they think he’s ridiculously overprotected to the point of him superplex-ing heavyweights. Looked stupid. Punk did absolutely nothing of interest until Kane came in. OK he stopped one of Rey’s hoomacarata moves with a club to the back, but in general he looked like a massively average wrestler. The rest didn’t look much better, but he just came off entirely dry. This also had some of that I Go In, You Get Out crap, which is pretty much what kills three-ways and four-ways for me. And the German-link stuff (which this did as well). Kane’s interference might have bothered me if I liked the match, but Punk holding the casket open while Kane was trying to shut it on him is one of the funnier things I’ve seen recently. I hope this winds up being Rey’s worst match of 2010. Please, don’t ever let Kofi Kingston have a better match than you on a card again. NOT ADDING.

The Miz v. R-Truth
The Miz had good offense, was willing to bump, and clearly tries hard, but I think he needs a Bryan Danielson to have a truly memorable match. I think one of my problems is that he looks completely forced in every way. He almost got disqualified here for being too vicious and not letting up, and I don’t believe any of it. No way in hell this guy could ever pull off that sort of violence in any believable way- he’s a goofball. And, honestly, there isn’t a whole lot wrong with that, because a goofball gimmick can add hugely to a match if done right. I guess their idea was that this idiot was going to be champion for some reason so they tried to make him more credible. Whatever. I hate him and his awful rap parody (thanks for reminding of that btw, Cody). I was mortified by how long this took. I put my arm in the air and landed it on my high when Truth kicked out of one of the Miz’s pins, and that was like half way through. 13 minutes? This did not go 13 fucking minutes, Wikipedia. Final Fantasy games are shorter than this. NOT ADDING.

The Hart Dynasty v. The Usos/Jimmy Snuka’s Daughter
Can I be real? I really, really don’t like Kidd, I really, really don’t like Smith, and I really, really don’t like Nattie. Never have. As far as I’ve heard Smith has been great since leaving WWE and I did love the Chavo match in 2012, but all he did for me in WWE was be a Christian opponent in 2009. For the fucking life of me I will never understand what anybody sees in Nattie. I guess the fandom comes from her being a woman who can actually wrestle, but, fuck, can she actually wrestle? Comes off to me more like ‘’look at me, I can wrestle!’’ instead of being actually able to wrestle. The first move of this was awesome, with Snuka’s kid pushing Nattie and going ‘’whooa’’ like ‘’what up y’all see that shit!?’’ Nattie’s retaliation is lame chain-wrestling. Headlock here, armbar here, and when being caught in Snuka’s Daughter’s armbar, she did that pet peeve of mine that I’ll call ‘’fake armbar pain’’. You know that sell in an armbar right before the wrestler does a roll-reversal thing? It always looks so phony and choreographed, like a school play or some shit. That kind of ‘ow’ never looks natural to me unless you have a Regal, etc doing it. I wonder if anybody, anywhere, has ever seen this the way I have. This had an enjoyable Kidd FIP who I thought looked pretty good and unlike his teammates, natural. Tight kicks, holding his mouth when being hit in the face, an actual good headlock, and whatever techy shit he may have used actually looked beneficial to him instead of ‘’welcome to a mat demonstration’’. There was an apron Samoan drop where Kidd kind of obviously jumped into it, but I’ll give them props for doing something original. FIP kind of dragged after a while but all of the possible tags were well done. Actual hot tag was Nattie doing some weirdo elbows and and irish whip (ugh) and whatever. NOT ADDING.

John Cena v. Edge v. Randy Orton v. Sheamus
Dry, drab, worthless wrestling. I saw it coming, though, so I can’t be too mad. Not like it was any worse than what I expected it to be. Cena’s sell of Orton’s stomp-of-all-limbs was by far the best part pre-Nexus invasion. I have nothing else to say; the match itself had no soul or flavour. NOT ADDING.

Cal scale: 30.6

--------------------------

Current list:



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
2.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules 4/25/10)
3.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Over the Limit 5/23/10)
4.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
5.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
6.	Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
7.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
8.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
9.	Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
10.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Extreme Rules 4/29/10)
11.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
12.	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
13.	Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
14.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
15.	d
16.	d
17.	d
18.	d
19.	d
20.	d
21.	d
22.	d
23.	d
24.	d
25.	d

Other contenders:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The main events get even worse. Wait till you get to Cena/Sheamus in a cage and the endless Wade Barrett main event matches.

Did you laugh at the Daniel Bryan chants at the end? And why don't you like Tyson Kidd?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I tried to make out what those chants said before realizing it was ''Daniel Bryan'' on the last one.

I honestly can't say anything *too* bad about Tyson Kidd as a wrestler. Do I think he's really good? No. But do I think any match he has might automatically suck because he's in it? No. I think he definitely has a couple of problems and annoyances, but I think my lack of support for him is more visceral than logical. Objectively he's OK and all, I just don't like him. There was a point where he had the worst hair in the world. That didn't help.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The main events get even worse. Wait till you get to Cena/Sheamus in a cage and the endless Wade Barrett main event matches.
> 
> Did you laugh at the Daniel Bryan chants at the end? And why don't you like Tyson Kidd?


I like the cage match, but yeah the Barrett/Orton main event matches are just atrocious


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was soooooo hoping you'd use the shock of a good Kofi match _(as if he was the catalyst for it tho..)_ as an insult for everything else on the show minus the terrific Jericho/Bourne match. I won't give McIntyre a comment here b/c it's obvious, but damn that put a smile on my face.

As did the Natalya slights. Racking my brain on a match of her's I don't find to be shite. Which is weird since she's supposed to be this "good wrestler" right? And I get the Tyson Kidd is only ok topic. I've been treading on that already. Smith is rad though. At least, I like his work a lot.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Your review is useless because of your racist remarks.



Don't play the race card over something like that, the dude had a gang of people kidnap and strangle the undertaker wearing ski masks. If that's not a terrorist gimmick I don't know what is. He didn't start out that way, but he sure ended up that way. It's actually kinda sad that that is what Hassan will always be remembered for, when the character he started out as was actually really cool and I felt broke some new grounds. Kinda like Bret Hart calling out the US for some of their failings as a society, most of what he said (not all) was true, but he was still a heel in the US because apparently, in America, the only people that are allowed to bitch about our country is our own US citizens. Calling him "that terrorist guy", while not entirely accurate, surely doesn't count as racist. Now if he had called Jinder Mahal or someone that was never portrayed in that light a "terrorist", I could understand the sentiment.

The fact that Hassan couldn't really wrestle to me is irrelevant. His character at the start was awesome and innovative, but in the end he was just a straight up terrorist. I think that's because the fans in general were just too stupid o understand what WWE was doing with the original Hassan character, so they dumbed him down and made him a stereotype in the end. Was the final Hassan character in and of itself "racist"? I really don't know, that's not for me to decide as I'm not of middle eastern/Indian descent. There have been plenty of "******* white trash" gimmicks in wrestling, and those don't offend me because unfortunately I've met plenty of white people who are exactly like the stereotype.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> I was soooooo hoping you'd use the shock of a good Kofi match _(as if he was the catalyst for it tho..)_ as an insult for everything else on the show minus the terrific Jericho/Bourne match. I won't give McIntyre a comment here b/c it's obvious, but damn that put a smile on my face.
> 
> As did the Natalya slights. *Racking my brain on a match of her's I don't find to be shite*. Which is weird since she's supposed to be this "good wrestler" right? And I get the Tyson Kidd is only ok topic. I've been treading on that already. Smith is rad though. At least, I like his work a lot.


vs Del Rey SHIMMER Volume 7?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Excellent slugfest i uploaded:

*Bull Power (Big Van Vader) vs. Otto Wanz (CWA 6/30/90)*

x1jhnej


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> WWE has cracked you, Cal.
> 
> Skins, watch this:


Tremendous, thanks for recommending this, excellent workovers, and them CHOPS :mark:. Loved that Tenryu was in control majority of the match and Naitch still looked great

Which leads me to the reason why I think Naitch is GOAT wrestler, his catalog of great-perfect matches is almost infinite. And what really puts him over is, you look at all our favorites in here, Me -Shawn ,couple in here is taker and foley , some HHH marks, even Bret fans, once we watch their "classics" we have already seen their best stuff, so its like there is nothing better than those few matches, with Flair always learn something more, 2 house show in one day with Steamboat ? He did what in Japan ? How many Von Erich/Wahoo etc matches are there ? I'm pretty sure Flair has many ****+ matches that werent even taped. SO GO NAITCH WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Also, I'm not high on Tyson Kidd either, actually more down than Yeah, he is just the prime example of the term "Vanilla Midget". No charisma, nothing memorable qualities, he TECHNICAL wrestling and fluid, but its so meh and bland


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS said:


> Tremendous, thanks for recommending this, excellent workovers, and them CHOPS :mark:. Loved that Tenryu was in control majority of the match and Naitch still looked great
> 
> Which leads me to the reason why I think Naitch is GOAT wrestler, his catalog of great-perfect matches is almost infinite. And what really puts him over is, you look at all our favorites in here, Me -Shawn ,couple in here is taker and foley , some HHH marks, even Bret fans, once we watch their "classics" we have already seen their best stuff, so its like there is nothing better than those few matches, with Flair always learn something more, 2 house show in one day with Steamboat ? He did what in Japan ? How many Von Erich/Wahoo etc matches are there ? I'm pretty sure Flair has many ****+ matches that werent even taped. SO GO NAITCH WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
> 
> ...


Some recommendations for Flair In Japan: http://bigcaldiscs.webs.com/listings/flairjapancomp.html

-----------






Meltzer said recently this was a shoot. I did think that too TBH, even if Vader did swear.  Saying that, didn't this incident contribute to Vader not getting his push?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Everyone needs to get on this ASAP



The Hitman said:


> Excellent slugfest i uploaded:
> 
> *Bull Power (Big Van Vader) vs. Otto Wanz (CWA 6/30/90)*
> 
> x1jhnej



*Otto Wanz Vs Bull Power (30/06/1990 CWA)* - The final match of a five year feud that saw both men slugging each other throughout Germany. Sometimes for the title, but mainly for manly points. I'd been meaning to watch the previous match (where Vader drops the title to Wanz one final time) ever since it popped up on a weekly match review list last month and Zep's upload comes as the push I needed to give these two beefies a go.

Whereas he took to Wanz with some restraint in '89, a strategy that would cost him the title, Vader wasn't going to be hesitant in hurting the old man here. He comes out absolutely storming with rights, lefts and elbow smashes that busts open the homebase hero pretty quick. Listening to the German announcer grow readily angrier with each repeat of his order for Vader to ropebreak, can only be a plus point. Of course, when Vader does relent, Otto takes full advantage of the situation and rolls with a slew of punches that knocks Vader clean out of the ring. Bad move, Wanz, you just pissed off the bull.

While the earlier title match may have leaned closer to fun than good, this came across as an excellent slugfest that had Wanz playing ball more than he had previously. It's also rather amazing how diverse Vader's application across many styles actually is. Detractors may state that all he has to do is stiff his opponents, but there's a difference between simply being violent and using the promotion's style to hone how you develop your matches. There appears to be an almost lost art in a lot of what he does, as well. What is arguably the biggest moment in the match comes as nothing more than a reversed suplex, yet it pops the crowd huge purely because of how much it meant for Wanz to get a one-up on Vader. While WWE may attempt to focus on working this simplicity into its matches, a moniker that ensures some fans lambast the promotion with comments that they water down their move lists too far, I'm not sure many understand how to structure such simplicity to mean as much as Vader can make it mean.



Otto Wanz vs Bull Power (29/12/1989 CWA) - You can't have an 80s wrestling match without a wacky moment and that isn't in the form of the wonderfully cheesy music playing during the pre-match promos (it's Vader, decked in mask, attempting to be dapper in a suit). Then Wanz outdoes this by coming out like he's Rocky Balboa after going on a Ronald McDonald power bulk.

The match is rather beautiful in its simplicity and reliance on the round structure to develop the FIP segment for Wanz. Aside from a final instance into the second round, the only respite from Vader's punches is down to the break called by a time-limit. Bloodied, half-staggered and out of breath, it seems like Wanz stood no chance, especially the longer this went, so when he had hope spots you damn well rooted for him to make that comeback. It's quite a shame that Wanz is so out of shape and past his prime here, considering a good many moments come across as sluggish or stalled, but Otto does have the crumple-sell following Vader's punches down to pat and that's a majority of his job here. Not to mention when you think Wanz is too old to be clubbering dudes, he whollops Vader with some forearm smashes that look like they could concuss a bull. Wanz lightly tapping the back of Vader's head, once he had knocked him down, almost as if to say "don't get up, big man", was a great visual that lay in stark contrast to the narrative direction the match started in.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Fun fact: that match with Flair is Tenryu's longest match ever, he just wasn't interested in doing "epics", he's a do or die guy. GOAT.

Fun fact II: Flair and Dusty wrestled 7 days in a row once, and the last two matches were 1 hour draws.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Flair's schedule as NWA champion was hell. Circa '85 he was doing well over 200 matches a year, most often back to back. Those dates aren't even just traveling cross country. He'd be defending his title in South America one night, defending it in America next and then be straight on a plane to Japan a day or two later.

To put his 220 odd matches into perspective, Daniel Bryan, WWE's most used wrestler, didn't even do half of that in 2013.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Fun fact: that match with Flair is Tenryu's longest match ever, he just wasn't interested in doing "epics", he's a do or die guy. GOAT.
> 
> Fun fact II: Flair and Dusty wrestled 7 days in a row once, and the last two matches were 1 hour draws.



^^^ Flair said in one year, I think it was 1985, that he was on the road for 350 days out of 365 in a year. Jesus.

Flair said in his book, not sure if this is factual or him misremembering, that he once wrestled 6 1-hour draws with Ricky Morton in 7 days.

Also, on the Legends Round table about Texas wrestling, Bill Watts said he once booked Dusty in 8 Bullrope matches in 7 days, and Dusty was there to verify it as being true. He said as a thank you, Bill took him out to eat hot dogs :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> Meltzer said recently this was a shoot. I did think that too TBH, even if Vader did swear.  Saying that, didn't this incident contribute to Vader not getting his push?


:lmao @ this.

It's funny watching 97 Raw and Vince is on commentary saying "Vader has been detained in Kuwait after attacking an interviewer for asking him if wrestling is fake".

Gotta love Undertaker's no fucks given attitude there. :lol


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Rah said:


> Flair's schedule as NWA champion was hell. Circa '85 he was doing well over 200 matches a year, most often back to back. Those dates aren't even just traveling cross country. He'd be defending his title in South America one night, defending it in America next and then be straight on a plane to Japan a day or two later.
> 
> To put his 220 odd matches into perspective, Daniel Bryan, WWE's most used wrestler, didn't even do half of that in 2013.


Nah, it was way more than 300, current databases only cover well-known territories.

And you're kind of wrong when it comes to WWE's workhorses, they work a hectic schedule for modern standards where Vince requires additional gym nightmares, some examples:

Ambrose: 218 matches in 2013.

Big Show: 216 matches in 2012.

Cesaro: 211 matches in 2013.

Orton: 210 matches in 2013 (211 in 2011).

Danielson: *228 *matches in 2013, 213 in 2012.


Sure, they're no 1 hour draws or bloody brawls, but it's impressive nevertheless.




The Rabid Wolverine said:


> ^^^ Flair said in one year, I think it was 1985, that he was on the road for 350 days out of 365 in a year. Jesus.
> 
> Flair said in his book, not sure if this is factual or him misremembering, that he once wrestled 6 1-hour draws with Ricky Morton in 7 days.
> 
> Also, on the Legends Round table about Texas wrestling, Bill Watts said he once booked Dusty in 8 Bullrope matches in 7 days, and Dusty was there to verify it as being true. He said as a thank you, Bill took him out to eat hot dogs :lmao


Wow, that's real deal.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Wanna know the crazy thing about Danielson? I saw an interview with him once where he was asked what he does in his free time, and he replied "I just love grappling. When we aren't on the road, I like to spend atleast 4 hours a day grappling with some of the guys at my gym". The hell man, he spends his free time when he's not professionally wrestling, amateur wrestling :lmao.

I dig Danielson's current style, with the blazing speed come backs, stiff kicks and strikes, fast bumping, and snug submissions. But I'd love to see him, if he had the proper opponent who could do it, just get on the mat and WRESTLE from time to time. Trading holds, gritty, hard fought counters, and some good old fashion elbow strikes. It could be a nice change of pace for him to work that style every once in a while, I just don't know how many guys on the current roster can work that way.

We know Orton can wrestle like that, I wonder why they never took any of their matches in that direction. Like in 2006 Orton had a match with Benoit on Smackdownt that is my second favorite Orton match ever, and they spend the first 5-10 minutes just fighting for control and countering each other, something we had no idea Orton was capable of pulling off. AND IT WAS AWESOME.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching *The Rise And Fall Of ECW DVD: Disc Two* atm. Just watched Raven & Stevie Richards vs. Pitbulls (Double Dog Collar Match) (9/16/95), was just literal chaos lol, and the ending i was like WFT is going on. Now onto 2 Cold Scorpio vs. Sabu (CyberSlam 1996). 

One point, Styles says "Oh my god he's dead" in regards to Sabu. He then says "Oh, he's alive". :lol It was after Sabu had dived all the way over the ropes, accros the rail and through a table!!.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Since TAJIRI is rather popular in this thread (rightfully so), I gotta pimp the match I eagerly anticipated for 6 months now, and thankfully, it has hit the wastelands of internet a week ago. It happened in his little indy in front of 300 fans. And it's the Top 5 match of 2013:



Be prepared for an extended mat struggle, ground based counters, terrific workovers and classy selling. Nishimura's MUGA expertise shines like a motherfucker here, he's still the god of details. Old school greatness where they get the most out of simplistic offense (well, at least on Nishimura's part, because there's still some Junior spirit in TAJIRI), and I just loved the finish. ****3/4

OBSCURE WRESTLING! :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Since TAJIRI is rather popular in this thread (rightfully so), I gotta pimp the match I eagerly anticipated for 6 months now, and thankfully, it has hit the wastelands of internet a week ago. It happened in his little indy in front of 300 fans. And it's the Top 5 match of 2013:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fuck yes, I'll be home from work in 45 minutes and this is just vaulted to the top of my "Must watch" list by sheer force of it being Tajiri + that excellent description you just gave of the kind of action I should expect to see :mark:

Zeppers- watch the RVD/Jerry Lynn and Taz/Bam Bam matches on that disc :mark:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Chismo said:


> Nah, it was way more than 300, current databases only cover well-known territories.
> 
> And you're kind of wrong when it comes to WWE's workhorses, they work a hectic schedule for modern standards where Vince requires additional gym nightmares, some examples:


Where'd you pull the WWE matches? I only had access to accurate TV appearances. Wrestlingdata is pretty accurate but I'm not sure how much it takes into account house shows. Flair's list was off just his NWA title defences.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Downloading that TAJIRI match. Also just found TAJIRI/FINLAY from the last SMASH match (I think?) on my PC that I downloaded aaaaggges ago but forgot about! Might need it once I'm done watching SVS 2003. Fuck me this is an awful, awful show so far...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If you do the math, Danielson wrestles on average once every Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday night. That's just on average, some nights he wrestles twice, others not at all. We will say for the sake of argument, he wrestles at least 4 nights a week. That would be 208 days a year, plus all the travel time. Their schedule is definitely better than Flairs back in his NWA champion days, but it's still really, really gruesome.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Cagematch.net is the very best database today, but even they struggle with pre-90s stuff.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Watching this Tajiri match Chismo linked me to is making me sad. Not because it's bad, it's been GREAT so far and I've got about 10 minutes still to go. Not sad for Tajiri either, because he's still making a living doing what he loves. No, I'm sad because of how unfair the sport we love is sometimes. I'm watching a guy who is still unquestionably one of the best wrestlers in the world, he should have a spot on the main roster in the WWE and be wrestling in front of thousands of people making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, not wrestling in high school gyms where fans have to search and scrape for footage of his matches with the commentary in Japanese. I got the same feeling watching Finlay's amazing matches with Callihan and Regal tear it up with Cesaro, I'm happy that they still get to make money doing what they love, but they are better than 90% of the main roster in the WWE right now. They should have a spot, at the very least to help out all the young guys and have killer 10 minute TV matches once or twice a month.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, but you have to understand you're likely in the minority. Not every casual would want to see Tajiri do his thing. It does suck for aficionados like us, but unfortunately that's how it goes in the WWE world.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Gotta agree with TLK on this one, WWE is a business, and in terms of "who would bring us more money" guys like Tajiri and Finlay wont cut it. 

How Tajiri isn't a main eventer in Japan makes no sense to me though


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, but you have to understand you're likely in the minority. Not every casual would want to see Tajiri do his thing. It does suck for aficionados like us, but unfortunately that's how it goes in the WWE world.



On one hand, you're right. Would most 6-12 year old kids (WWE's targeted demo) rather watch Kofi Kingston wrestle than Tajiri? Yes, probably, as sad as that is to say. But Tajiri has shown he has a great personality, he can work some great comedy stuff into otherwise serious wrestling matches, he wouldn't be out of place. I think the biggest thing that is missing on WWE television these days is that there are not enough veterans. Most of the guys on the show have been around in the WWE for 5 years or less. Would it really hurt to have guys like Finlay, Regal, and Tajiri on the roster, throwing us older fans a bone? Not to mention, you can't tell me that having those guys in the locker room wouldn't be a huge benefit for the younger cats still finding their way. Taker isn't there every week anymore, Hunter is in the office, and CM Punk left. That leaves Cena, Henry, and Big Show as the only tenured veterans, not enough in my book.

Having the grizzled old vet take on the young, brash, cocky upstart is one of my favorite stories to watch play out in the ring. Put Dean Ambrose in the ring with Finlay for 10 uninterrupted minutes on Smackdown, and I GUAURNTEE the fans would be on their feet clapping and cheering for old Finlay by the end. That's how you get matches like Hunter/Shelton on Raw and Flair/Jericho and Hogan/Brock. Those matches are just FUN. Adding those 3 guys (Finlay, Regal, Tajiri) wouldn't take away any significant TV time from the young guns they want to push. Giving all 3 of them 8-10 minutes once a month to face a younger guy on Smackdown, Raw, or Main Event can only be a positive thing in my mind. They have 6 hours of TV to fill every week plus a PPV every month, there is plenty of time to give the vets a spot.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I definitely see what you're saying, and I agree it's nice to have the grizzled veterans there to not only teach the younger guys, but also put on good matches with them and put them over. However, it seems WWE is hellbent on recruiting guys for the future, as the old guard is slowly making it's way out, and all of the younger guys are vying for TV time and exposure.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Hitman said:


> Meltzer said recently this was a shoot. I did think that too TBH, even if Vader did swear.  Saying that, didn't this incident contribute to Vader not getting his push?


I'm pretty sure Vader assaulting that interviewer in Kuwait that said wrestling was fake is why he got fired. It definitely wasn't a work.

I've seen a couple of the Vader/Wanz matches, and one of them honestly bored the absolute shit out of me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That Kuwait incident happened in Feb/March 1997? He went on to face Undertaker for the WWF title not too long after that, so not like he got THAT much punishment . Besides, didn't Vader ask for his release in 98? I'm sure that's what Vader says, as he told JR that he would never be allowed to be "VADER" in the WWF so that's why he left. In fact I'm just JR has confirmed the story too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, pretty sure I remember Vader destroying Goldust in the opener of RR 98, so I think he was still around after this incident.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> That Kuwait incident happened in Feb/March 1997? He went on to face Undertaker for the WWF title not too long after that, so not like he got THAT much punishment . Besides, didn't Vader ask for his release in 98? I'm sure that's what Vader says, as he told JR that he would never be allowed to be "VADER" in the WWF so that's why he left. In fact I'm just JR has confirmed the story too.





Yeah1993 said:


> I'm pretty sure Vader assaulting that interviewer in Kuwait that said wrestling was fake is why he got fired. It definitely wasn't a work.
> 
> I've seen a couple of the Vader/Wanz matches, and one of them honestly bored the absolute shit out of me.


I did think the incident was is '96, but it could have been '97.  Yeah, sure Vader asked for his release in '98.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It was definitely 97, Cornette talks about it the 1997 Timeline .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> It was definitely 97, Cornette talks about it the 1997 Timeline .


Yep, April 1997


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Wow, this whole time I thought it happened right before he left. Is that why he didn't get the WWF title at SummerSlam/Survivor Series 96 maybe? It was a big deal of SOME kind and he got SOME punishment for it, I'm sure.

edit- nvm WASN;T IN 1996 EITHER I'LL STOP TALKING NOW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Tremendous, thanks for recommending this, excellent workovers, and them CHOPS :mark:. Loved that Tenryu was in control majority of the match and Naitch still looked great
> 
> Which leads me to the reason why I think Naitch is GOAT wrestler, his catalog of great-perfect matches is almost infinite. And what really puts him over is, you look at all our favorites in here, Me -Shawn ,couple in here is taker and foley , some HHH marks, even Bret fans, once we watch their "classics" we have already seen their best stuff, so its like there is nothing better than those few matches, with Flair always learn something more, 2 house show in one day with Steamboat ? He did what in Japan ? How many Von Erich/Wahoo etc matches are there ? I'm pretty sure Flair has many ****+ matches that werent even taped. SO GO NAITCH WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Terrific; glad you dug it pal.

The Flair catalog is immense. No doubt about it. All of his praise for his great stuff is 100% warranted.



Chismo said:


> Since TAJIRI is rather popular in this thread (rightfully so), I gotta pimp the match I eagerly anticipated for 6 months now, and thankfully, it has hit the wastelands of internet a week ago. It happened in his little indy in front of 300 fans. And it's the Top 5 match of 2013:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Planned to make time for this eventually. TAJIRI.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Downloading that TAJIRI match. Also just found TAJIRI/FINLAY from the last SMASH match (I think?) on my PC that I downloaded aaaaggges ago but forgot about! Might need it once I'm done watching SVS 2003. Fuck me this is an awful, awful show so far...


It's SMASH. WATCH IT RIGHT NOW. :hayley4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Wow, this whole time I thought it happened right before he left. Is that why he didn't get the WWF title at SummerSlam/Survivor Series 96 maybe? It was a big deal of SOME kind and he got SOME punishment for it, I'm sure.
> 
> edit- nvm WASN;T IN 1996 EITHER I'LL STOP TALKING NOW.


HBK curtailed his '96 title win im sure. :cuss:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> Wow, this whole time I thought it happened right before he left. Is that why he didn't get the WWF title at SummerSlam/Survivor Series 96 maybe? It was a big deal of SOME kind and he got SOME punishment for it, I'm sure.


Incident happened in 97, so didn't affect him in 96 .

He didn't get the belt in 96 because Shawn was a little bitch + "apparently" Vince saw the light and decided that SID would be the better choice which is how SVS came about (was originally gonna be Vader/HBK at SS, SVS and RR, with Vader winning at SS, retaining at SVS and losing at RR).

After around June time in 97 he basically got lost in the shuffle to Austin, Bret, Shawn, Undertaker, Foley etc so maybe that was his punishment? I dunno.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^100%.

The incident in Kuwait happened in early 1997 _(around A Cold Day in Hell)_ build, Jheri. Which is probably why he really got chucked at Shamrock to put him over.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Crazy that I remember all this shit like it happened half an hour ago, yet sometimes I legit forget my best friend's (known him since I was 5, best friends since we were about 9) REAL NAME. Called him Paddy longer than I called him by his real name :lmao.

Started watching SVS 03. Fuck me what a horrible show so far. Just up to the Team Austin Vs Team Bischoff match, thinking this might be the only good thing on the entire show .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You won't like Taker beating the bejezus out of McMahon? I banked on that.

I still like the Ambulance match, but I loved the Kane vs Shane LMS so this is old news.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've honestly never been a fan of the buried alive match lol . Maybe the MARK MARK in me doesn't like Undertaker getting buried :side:.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Crazy that I remember all this shit like it happened half an hour ago, yet sometimes I legit forget my best friend's (known him since I was 5, best friends since we were about 9) REAL NAME. Called him Paddy longer than I called him by his real name :lmao.
> 
> Started watching SVS 03. Fuck me what a horrible show so far. Just up to the Team Austin Vs Team Bischoff match, thinking this might be the only good thing on the entire show .



Firstly: PADDY'S NAME ISN'T ACTUALLY PADDY? NO, NO, NO NO NO NONONONONONONONONONOOONONONOOOOOOOO

Mike will be crushed.

Secondly: If you insult Vince/Taker I will detach your right testicle with the dullest butter knife I can possibly find.


EDIT:









GET READY


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Wait, Paddy isn't your brother? Also I don't care what you say, Stupid Tom's legal name is Stupid Tom.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Craig said:


> Firstly: PADDY'S NAME ISN'T ACTUALLY PADDY? NO, NO, NO NO NO NONONONONONONONONONOOONONONOOOOOOOO
> 
> Mike will be crushed.
> 
> ...


Hutz



Yeah1993 said:


> Wait, Paddy isn't your brother? Also I don't care what you say, Stupid Tom's legal name is Stupid Tom.


You thought Paddy was my brother? :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Well, yeah.  Not that I thought you have two brothers, I thought your brother's name (or nickname as I am now learning) was Paddy. Thought they were same person.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My brother is called Michael, or PRICK. Cunt. Fucktard. Bastard. He has many nicknames. All from me. He's not on my good side atm.

Uhhhh wrestling. Stuff. Moves. ***67/98.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK could I get your fuckin' thoughts on Cesaro/Zayn yet?!?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He's too busy. Spends all his time on here talking shite in the chatbox rather than watching a GOATC match. He's a fucking CUNT.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just watched Brock/Hogan on Smackdown. This match isn't good....it's GREAT. Brock looked like an absolute animal, but Hogan was so awesome too. He had that crowd in the palm of his hand. Is there anything sweeter than Lesnar bumping for someone? It just looks incredible seeing a guy who was EASILY 300 pounds back then bump around like he's 1996 Shawn Michaels. A 2003 Lesnar vs 2011 Henry match would be a GOATC, I have no doubt in my mind.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Survivor Series 2003*

"I'VE BEEN CHOSEN TO BURY THE UNDERTAKER ALIVE"


*Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, John Cena, Bradshaw & Harcore Holly Vs Brock Lesnar, The Big Show, A-Train, Nathan Jones & Matt Morgan - Survivor Series Elimination Match*

This one starts off as a giant brawl when Hardcore Holly jumps Lesnar and beats the fuck out of him, throws a referee to the ground and ends up getting DQ'd :lmao. Eliminated BEFORE THE MATCH EVEN BEGINS :lmao. HOW DOES THAT WORK?!?!

CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL~! A-Train id DONE less than a minute later :lmao.

CHOKESLAM~! Bradshaw is eliminated... less than a minute later :lmao.

3 ELIMINATIONS IN ABOUT 2 MINUTES :lmao.

Cean just speared Lesnar's KNEE :lmao.

Cena playing the FIP in a tag match. That ain't something we see these days .

LESNAR AND BENOIT GETTING IT ON :mark:. I should re-watch their SD match again at some point. Just for the hell of it.

Man, how is a match with LESNAR AND SHOW dominating BENOIT boring? Amazed they managed it here...

Man, Morgan might suck but he takes a good German Suplex for a big guy lol.

:lmao Nathan Jones accidentally boots Morgan in the face and then FALLS OVER MORGAN :lmao

Morgan is eliminated with an Angle Slam.

ANKLE LOCK TO NATHAN JONES~! He taps out. He doesn't want a broken ankle like he got a broken arm during an arm wrestling contest during a mid-90's Worlds Strongest Man competition :lmao.

F-5 TO ANGLE RIGHT AFTER JONES GOT ELIMINATED~! ANGLE IS OUT!

CROSSFACE TO LESNAR~! LESNAR FUCKING TAPS!!!

Both team captains have been eliminated already lol. Big Show left alone to fight Cena and Benoit.

Cena makes a blind tag, decks Show with his chain, hits an F-U and wins.

This is... a clusterfucky mess. A bunch of quick eliminations, boring control segment followed by more quick eliminations. LOL. WHO THE FUCK BOOKED THIS SHIT?

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Vince randomly visits Shane backstage and says he feels like he's being protected by a higher power. Then he meets Austin in a hallway and they both burst out laughing at each other before Austin looks mad. And then leaves. I see why the opener had so many quick eliminations. We needed time for this...


*Lita Vs Molly Holly - Women's Championship Match*

FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP.

Also, no thanks.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Shane McMahon Vs Kane - Ambulance Match*

Shane launches himself at Kane, with both going over the ropes and holy FUCK it looks like Kane doesn't bend, instead stays stiff and falls over the ropes and lands on his head :lmao.

STEEL STEPS ON KANE'S FACE~! STEEL CHAIR TO STEEL STEPS~! TV MONITOR TO KANE'S HEAD~!

Is this match rushed for time too lol? First couple minutes we see Kane land on his head, get attacked by steps and a chair, tv monitor to his head a few times and then a giant elbow drop through a fucking table :lmao.

Kane SITS UP from all that and... Shane runs away? Kane follows and they end up backstage somewhere and Shane manages to sneak up from behind and attacks Kane with a Kendo Stick...

:lmao then Shane gets in a car, HITS KANE AND SEND HIM THROUGH SOME RANDOM SECURITY BOOTH :lmao. That was the most hilarious thing EVER.

Shane calls for the ambulance from the... walkie talkie he randomly has... and KANE NO SELLS EVERYTHING STILL :lmao.

:lmao another camera dies.

Shane goes head first into the Ambulance and cracks the windscreen with the back of his head... and NO SELLS IT :lmao.

:lmao Kane is selling a shot to the face from an Ambulance door more than BEING RUN OVER AND THROWN THROUGH A GLASS WINDOW :lmao.

:lmao after EVERYTHING Shane has done to Kane so far... he realises it wasn't enough so... he brings out the dreaded TIN FOIL GARBAGE CAN :lmao.

Awesome bump from Shane diving off the Ambulance and landing on... a cardboard box, smashing the tin foil can in Kane's face.

:lmao again Kane sells THAT more than BEING RUN OVER AND KNOCKED THROUGH A GLASS WINDOW :lmao.

HUGE "Shane O Mac" chant as Kane lobs Shane into the side of the Ambulance over and over again.

TOMBSTONE ON THE FLOOR. And this is finally fucking over.

Fuck me what a shitty fucking piece of shit this match is :lmao. SPOT! NO SELL! SPOT! NO SELL! SPOT! NO SELL! SPOT! NO SELL!

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Coach comes out and does something or something. I dunno. I skipped it.

Evolution backstage. Orton runs in and sounds like he has BIG NEWS... but gets distracted by all the hot women in the room. 2 of them punch his nipples :lmao.


*The Basham Brothers Vs Los Guerreros - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

Urgh, that damn shemale is out with the Bashams.

Thankfully EDDIE is involved in this match. Hopefully he can drag 3 talentless fucks to something watchable.

So EDDIE takes care of BOTH Bashams all on his own early on, until that moron Chavo accidentally distracts the ref and allows the Bashams to double team Eddie. Fucks sake Chavo, piss off already...

Hot tag to Chavo quicker than I would have liked, and Chavo runs in with dropkicks and attempts some EDDIE offence but fails miserably :lmao. Then he gets fucks up and EDDIE has to save his arse.

:lmao they do a "switch" with Doug and Danny, but the guy that came in gets IMMEDIATELY kicked out of the ring anyway, making the whole thing pointless :lmao. Then EDDIE frog splashes the shemale and Chavo spanks him because Chavo likes shemales.

Roll up and Chavo gets pinned because he's useless.

Fuck me this was horrible outside of EDDIE :lmao. Bashams were awful, Chavo was awful, the shemale was awful.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Shawn Michaels, Booker T, RVD & The Dudley Boys Vs Mark Henry, Randy Orton, Christian, Chris Jericho & Scott Steiner - If Team Austin wins, he can beat people up any time he wants. If Team Bischoff wins, Austin is fired*

Finally, a match on this show that I already know doesn't outright SUCK. I always thought it was overrated, but still considered it to be great. As long as it holds up I'll be happy. And who knows, maybe I'll like it more this time around.

Team Austin bounces around a couple of Team Bischoff guys to start things off, then STEINER gets in against RVD who starts throwing kicks at BIG POPPA PUMP, and Scotty is all "fuck this shit, SUPLEX". Very nearly eliminated RVD with a super overhead belly to belly :mark:.

Bah, Booker T gets a tag. Ha, he runs into a clothesline from STEINER.

Booker with an AXE KICK to Scotty, then the rest of Team Bischoff enter the ring and get mauled by Booker T's shitty offence before Team Austin piles in for a BRAWL~!

LOW BLOW~! STEINER RECLINER~! FAP FAP STACY ON THE APRON BOUNCING AROUND CHEERING FOR BOOKER T EVEN THOUGH SHE'S STEINER'S MANAGER OR SOMETHING~! Dudley's save her (ha, she used to manage them) with that reverse 3-D type move that fucks me off because any time they do it the retarded fans in the audience scream "THREEE DEEEEE!" at it even though it's clearly NOT A FUCKING THREE DEE YOU PRICKS.

Steiner gets eliminated by Booker, then he turned right around into a WORLD'S STRONGEST SLAM :mark:. Henry takes care of the Book Man!!! Now it's time for HENRY TO FUCKING DOMINATE :mark:.

:mark: FUCKING HENRY, MAN. Dudley's try to double team him and he just FUCKS THEM BOTH UP instead!!! :mark:

Man, when HENRY is on, he's the fucking MAN.

3-D to Henry. 5 Star Frog Splah. Dudley's and RVD pile on and manage to get a 3 count on Henry . BOOOOOOOOOO. At least he looked fucking STRONG in defeat lol. 2 finishers and 3 men to pin him. Wish he'd stuck around though.

Sweet jebus at that clothesline from Orton to RVD. Watching old Orton stuff makes me sad to see how far he's gone down over the last 5 or so years . His clotheslines went from being epic to being the most robotic shit ever.

RKO~! RVD IS GONE!!! YEY!!!

LOL Devon gets eliminated from a... uhhh.. neckbreaker thingy or something :lmao.

HBK TAGGED INTO THE MATCH FOR THE FIRST TIME!

:lmao at Sign Guy...










Bubba gets a low blow and the UNPRETTIER and is pinned while HBK stands on the apron doing fuck all. BREAK UP THE PIN YOU DUMB FUCK!!!

Now HBK is all alone with 3 opponents left. Serves him right.

Lots of "distract the ref while the other 2 team up on HBK" stuff going on, and at one point Christian sends Shawn head first into the ring post and HBK is GUSHING.

Christian tries to go to work on a bloodied HBK and... gets superkicked in the face :lmao. Christian is gone .

Shawn is getting beat down by the remaining 2 men from Team Bischoff, but he won't stay down! He keeps fighting back and getting some offence in, then counters a Walls of Jericho into a roll up and eliminated Y2J!!!

Orton and HBK are the final 2, but before Jericho leaves, he smashes a steel chair over the head of Shawn!!!

MASSIVE crossbody from Orton, but Shawn moves and the poor referee gets DESTROYED. Shawn slowly pulls himself up with the help of the ropes, and begins to tune up the band!!!

He moves in for the kill and BISCHOFF kicks him!!! Austin has had enough, he takes out Bischoff and nails Orton with a Stunner!!! He fights Bischoff up the entrance ramp, meanwhile BATISTA shows up, Batista Bombs HBK and Orton gets the win! Austin is FIRED!!!

Great match still, so it definitely held up, but I do think it does get overrated, especially HBK's performance at the end. Yeah, he did a good job selling the effects of being busted open and being in a 3 on 1 situation, but honestly I don't think it's anything THAT special. Shawn himself has done a better job, and honestly there wasn't THAT much time from when HBK gets busted open to when the match ends, especially considering he has THREE opponents left to go through. He was CONSTANTLY fighting back and was never really in THAT much danger. I probably would have liked this more had Christian, Jericho and Orton really got a control segment over Shawn.

Also, HENRY should have been one of the last guys to be eliminated. A bloodied HBK having to take out HENRY? That would have made this thing AWESOME.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*The Undertaker Vs Vince McMahon - Buried Alive Match*

Vince stands toe to toe with Undertaker, with a huge grin on his face as he believes a HIGHER POWER is watching over him. So Undertaker punches him in the face, and Vince is fucking BLEEDING after about 4 shots!!!

Undertaker is destroying, mauling, MURDERING Vince McMahon on live PPV :mark:. Multiple shots to the head, smashing his balls into the ring post a few times and choking him out with some cable. Vince McMahon is paying for his sins.

:mark: @ Undertaker punching Vince in the face... with a tv monitor!!! "WE'RE JUST GETTING STARTED" :mark:.

Seems Undertaker is bored with the weapons and ringside, and heads up to the grave site to bring back a fucking SHOVEL!!! RIGHT TO THE FUCKING FACE~!

STEEL STEPS TO THE ANKLE~! Throwback to 1998?

Undertaker picks up Vince McMahon and carries him over to the grave, where Vince manages to throw dirt in the Dead Man's eyes and land a low blow! SHOVEL TO UNDERTAKER! UNDERTAKER FELL IN THE GRAVE!!!

But Undertaker is basically fresh and can recover quick enough, and throws VINCE in the grave! He heads to the digger to try and empty the dirt over Vince and... FIREBALL!!!

THAT'S GOTTA BE... THAT'S GOTTA BE KANE!! KANE PUTS UNDERTAKER IN THE GRAVE, VINCE HEADS TO THE DIGGER AND THE DIRT DROPS, COVERING UNDERTAKER ENTIRELY!!!

THE UNDERTAKER HAS JUST BEEN BURIED ALIVE!!! VINCE WINS!!!

So this ruled more than I used to think. Undertaker destroying Vince is soooo much fun.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Goldberg Vs Triple H - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

:lmao A MAN GETTING BURIED ALIVE DOESN'T EVEN MAIN EVENT THIS SHOW :lmao.

HHH put a "hit" out on Goldberg. Batista "shattered" his ankle. Luckily HHH is still suffering from that torn penis so that just evens shit up .

Goldberg goes after BOTH HHH and Flair before the bell even rings and lands a SPEAR on HHH!!! The bell finally rings and Goldberg continues to kill HHH on the outside.

:lmao Goldberg has an injured ANKLE... so HHH targets... the knee :lmao. Then Flair actually gets some shots in on the ANKLE and HHH must have seen it because he finally targets THE CORRECT PART of the body :lmao.

So HHH stomps at Goldberg's ankle, Goldberg tries a power move to do a comeback, HHH goes back after the ankle, rinse and repeat until the REF BUMP where the Sledgehammer, brass knucks and Evolution all get involved.

Goldberg takes care of Evolution, then throws away the Sledgehammer and SPEARS HHH, followed by the Jackhammer and this is over, thankfully. GOOD GOD ALMIGHT WHO'S YOUR DADDY TONIGHT?

Dull and shitty. And this main evented OVER A MAN GETTING BURIED ALIVE? Fuck this company.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 5*​


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Sheamus vs Christian vs ADR vs Ziggler in a Fatal 4-way :mark:

It's the battle of the under appreciated mid carders!

Please god let Sheamus hit Ziggler with a Brogue Kick. I just want to see him bump for it :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought you would have liked that opening tag match. The ambulance match is terrible. No clue why people like it so much. Main event has two shitty wrestlers in it, so no surprise how that turned out. Buried alive match ruled and the other tag match was very good, but overrated by many.

DAT POP for Ziggler. DAT ambiguous reaction for the lesser skilled Sheamus.

DAT MATCH! Dat Ziggler :ziggler1


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ziggler just did what he always claims to do, he stole the show. Fuck the Ziggler haters, that guy is so talented, he deserves so much better than his current role. He just took possibly the HIGHEST front bump I've ever seen too. He's the perfect guy for that IC title spot, and I'd really dig a feud between him and Cesaro over that title.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

He does have an issue with spamming nearfalls, like in his TLC pre-show match with Fandango for instance, but Ziggler does the most important thing in wrestling very well: he's fun to watch. I laugh at the Ziggler haters too, especially that fickle turncoat Evan. He does everything you want in a face in the ring. Now that the WHC is gone and he will never be the top guy, the IC title is perfect for him. Great worker, very over, fun to watch, and needs something to do. Yeah, a Cesaro/Ziggler feud would be a blast.

I should also take the time to notify everyone that Triple H in 2000 was honestly not that good. People talk about it like it's an all time great year for him, but dude was at his most boring on the mic that year, and while he has a couple great matches where he imitates Ric Flair (vs. Rikishi, TAKA Michinoku, Jericho), he has a lot of other ones where he miserably fails. At least eight guys last year had a better year than him in 2000.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ugh. Scooby Doo on Raw fpalm


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Scooby Doo GOAT


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

DAT ROBOCOP in early 90s WCW. Can't believe how far they fell :side:


----------



## T-Viper (Aug 17, 2013)

WTF was that utter jobbing for Sandow? Iron Mike Sharpe used to get in more offense than that.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Also, Triple H in 2000:

Vs Jericho on Raw in State College ****
Vs Foley Royal Rumble *****
Vs Foley HiaC ****1/2
Vs Rocky backlash ****1/2
Vs Rocky JD ****1/4
Vs Jericho LMS ****3/4
Vs Benoit No Mercy ***3/4 (Hunter did some fantastic limb work that was totally negated by Benoit forgetting to sell it)
Vs Foley vs Big Show vs Rocky WM ***1/2

Don't try and say 8 guys had a better year than him last year. That's just false. I don't like Hunter at all, but that's a fucking fantastic year. Punks 2013 was worse than that for sure. Who cares about boring ass promos when you produce like THAT in the ring. The only two years from Hunter I'm a fan of are 2000 and 2005.


----------



## T-Viper (Aug 17, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Also, Triple H in 2000:
> 
> Vs Jericho on Raw in State College ****
> Vs Foley Royal Rumble *****
> ...


Not sure what this was in response to, but ya HHH in 2000 was the franchise of the WWF. Really carried the company while Austin was injured. Had either the best or 2nd best match on virtually every PPV that year.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Sheamus vs Christian vs ADR vs Ziggler in a Fatal 4-way :mark:
> 
> *It's the battle of the under appreciated mid carders!*


And Ziggler!



funnyfaces1 said:


> I should also take the time to notify everyone that Triple H in 2000 was honestly not that good. People talk about it like it's an all time great year for him, but dude was at his most boring on the mic that year, and while he has a couple great matches where he imitates Ric Flair (vs. Rikishi, TAKA Michinoku, Jericho), he has a lot of other ones where he miserably fails. At least eight guys last year had a better year than him in 2000.


He had a really, really good April-July. He has some other good stuff and I will not knock the run at all, but it's definitely a hugely overrated year.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I value consistency more than high peaks, and on television, Triple H was not good. Once again, he always tried to wrestle that same imitation Flair style, but he can't bump as well as Flair, can't make a match as interesting as Flair, and certainly can't carry a match like Flair can. The Mania match also did not hold up very well. The Shield, Daniel Bryan, Cesaro, Punk, Ziggler, and arguably even Del Rio were all far more consistently good/great/awesome in 2013 than Triple H in 2000. The real guys to marvel at in 2000 are Chris Benoit and The Rock, who brought it on PPV as well as on television. Again, Triple H had a good year. But it's super overrated.

His April-July consisted of great matches with Jericho and Rock, and shitty matches with just about everyone else.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

what shitty matches did he have from April-July?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The HHH hate is ridiculous

Were calling his 2000 bad now? I can see post ss being hated but April-July being hated on is :ti


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The match with Tazz, the 6/1 match with Kane, the 6-Man Tag at KOTR, the 5/11 tag match, the tag with Angle against BoD, and the Holly match on Heat. In comparison, Chris Benoit had good matches with the likes of The Godfather and D'Lo Brown.

Once again, Triple H's 2000 was very good. It's just super overrated. I wouldn't be surprised if his 2004 outclasses it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Haven't seen the others but KOTR six man tag is good :draper2

LOL at having a Bob Holly match on the list, no one can have a good match with him so it should be no surprise it was bad


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Chris Benoit was able to.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm not a fan of the Taz or KOTR match, but they aren't SHITTY. Don't remember the rest. I liked a match he had with Kane but that may have been from Jan or Feb.


Bob Holly gets way, way too much hate.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I haven't seen a Holly/Benoit match that was good at all 

Still dont see the HHH 2000 hate, dude was on fire that year and people always seem to look for a reason to hate him more than any other wrestler out there which annoys the fuck out of me, I'm not a huge fan of his but his haters say some of the dumbest shit


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I want to see how a Cena/Luke match with time plays out. So far, we have generally seen Luke have the power advantage, although really that isn't something central to his ring style considering Harper's go to is his size to speed ratio, a smashmouth offense and his "high motor" to use a nfl combine term. At the same time though, Harper can't be dominated in the power game or it would relinquish wwe's attempt at establishing Harper as a bigman. In the same token, Cena usually is given the brawling advantage, yet relinquishes that advantage in this matchup Both of these guys have an atypical offensive style, this one really intrigues me especially since the SD match didn't get good time. I could easily see this being good since Harper is money when given a spotlight to shine in (hell probably only fourth to Cesaro, Bryan and Rollins in full time big match performances) and Cena always puts in some extra effort in minding his timing and move spacing against guys with a indy track record to prove that even thogh he has championed a profit over product company he can hang in the ring with them(Harper fits the bill in Chikara as Brody Lee), I am looking forward to this.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I can't even with the Trips 2000 hate. 

Do you not like the Foley program? And please don't say Foley is the only reason it was good.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HHH I agree with your point but your sig is WOAT now :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

No I'll give him credit for the Foley feud. It was very good. The day-to-day actions of this Rock feud isn't as good as I remembered it being as a kid. Too much unnecessary McMahon drama. Not enough feud advancement. I repeat, Triple H did not have a bad year at all. It just isn't an all-time great year.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

It's cool to hate on anything Triple H did or does. That's just the way it is.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> HHH I agree with your point and your sig is GOAT.


:hhh2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

please stop reading any form of criticism as ''hatred'', PEOPLE. He didn't have a bad year, he didn't have an average year, he didn't have a below-good year, but he also didn't have an amazing year. That's not exactly an insult. He had more than a few good and very good performances but when you start looking at the TV stuff, he doesn't look like the massive stand-out some claim he was. 4/24/00 tag - Trip/Benoit v. Rock/Jericho - is a really fun and good match. HHH was good in it, but you could look at it and say he had the fourth best showing in it. Does that mean HHH was bad? No, it means the Rock, Benoit and Jericho were also good. 6/26/00 has HHH/Rock/Angle in probably one of the better three-ways of all time, but Trip didn't stick out as an amazing wrestler in it. 2/7/00 5-on-5 is obviously amazing, but HHH almost botched the finish and I don't see why he would be regarded as the best guy in the match when he really, really was not. But was he good in it? Definitely.

even looking at his PPV year, I think I really like less than half of those matches. Don't remember Unforgiven, to be fair. And his best match that year (and in his career) was 90% the other guy (Mick Foley). And shit, after Fully Loaded you have like 5 months of worthless nothing other than No Mercy. That's like, half of the year filled with not-really-good-at-all wrestling. Doesn't spell amazing year. There are negatives to it but it doesn't change it was a very good year. No one's ''hating'' on 2000 HHH, they're just pointing out the flaws and the fact there are other years from other wrestlers that are much, much better.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I missed the majority of Raw tonight. Any good matches I should check out?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> I missed the majority of Raw tonight. Any good matches I should check out?


Shield/Real Americans was cool. Rollins tore it up again. Sheamus, Del Rio, Christian and Ziggler had a four way. Pretty sure those were the guys in it anyway. Wasn't paying attention so I don't know if it was good.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I am going to reiterate one last time. Triple H had a very good year, but it's not an all-time great year, and probably not even his best year. Yeah1993 summed it up perfectly, except I'm afraid No Mercy won't hold up either. I apologize for not clarifying earlier and it is my fault. I should have capitalized "THAT" when I said "it wasn't that good". Not saying it was a bad year; just that there have been many in the WWE that outdo it. My fault for not clarifying. HHH's fault for delivering boring twenty minute promos 14 years ago. The man that really was the star of 2000 was The Rock.

Undertaker/Lesnar better be a five star match, because the build is all wrong.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Taker/Lesnar build has been worthless but I can't really say I expected anything good. 

HHH/Bryan/Batista/Orton is the only program I care about right now. Wyatt/Cena hasn't been bad but it just feels like another Cena overcomes the odds story to me. What other matches are even on the card? Battle royal? Don't care. Tag titles? Don't care. Divas title? Definitely don't care.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

I don't care how the build has been going, can't wait to see Lesnar/Taker. I know it won't go beyond WM so I'm OK with it.

Anytime i see Orton & Batista i laugh, they're like The Miz before WM27.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Batista v Orton next week. My whole attitude towards Mania changed when they realized they couldn't let that main event the show. Hopefully this is the year they break the streak of sub-par WMs.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The streak of sub-par Manias is barely at one.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't think there has been a good one since like 24 or 25 really.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

WM24 & WM26 were great
WM25, WM28 and WM29 were ok
WM27 was crap


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

A show with three awesome main events is worse than a show with one awesome main event? Quite a revelation.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

WM 28 was pretty good, but it pales in comparison to Extreme Rules. Last great Mania was probably 24.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

When I said sub-par I meant less than very good. After all it's WrestleMania, it should be great or at least very good. I don't consider 29, 28 or 27 to be very good. 26 was.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

The second half of WM28 was pretty good, I try to forget the first half.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I loved Wrestlemania 24. JBL/Finlay in a Belfast Brawl, a really fun Money in the Bank match, the awesome and emotional HBK/Flair, a solid triple threat match in Orton/Cena/HHH, the entertaining Show/Mayweather, and the underrated Streak match Taker/Edge made it a great show to watch. Wrestlemania 25 to 29 have ranged from alright to decent, but Wrestlemania 24 was the last great Wrestlemania where I can rewatch over and over again. Fun night.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Luke Harper is the fucking man. That is all.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Unfortunately, the reality is that Wrestlemania sucks more often than it is good. Now Summerslam. There's a PPV based more on quality than on starpower.

Luke Harper is sex.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

If WWE gave a damn about the mid-card I'd like Harper holding the IC title.
Very glad to see him not just be a henchman, and to think at one point Eli Cottonwood was at Bray's side.




StraightEdgeJesus said:


> I loved Wrestlemania 24. JBL/Finlay in a Belfast Brawl, a really fun Money in the Bank match, the awesome and emotional HBK/Flair, a solid triple threat match in Orton/Cena/HHH, the entertaining Show/Mayweather, and the underrated Streak match Taker/Edge made it a great show to watch. Wrestlemania 25 to 29 have ranged from alright to decent, but Wrestlemania 24 was the last great Wrestlemania where I can rewatch over and over again. Fun night.


Was very surprised at how good the Triple Threat & Belfast Brawl matches were.
Hell the first few minutes of Edge/Taker almost put me to sleep and that match turned out great.
Mayweather/Show was Big Show's best WM match.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

The Shield vs. The Real Americans last night. :lenny


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I was just going to post that.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

I like Seth Rollins way more then I liked Tyler Black, someone made mention of a Rollins/Harper match that'd be awesome.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Rollins has mad potential as a babyface. He's a damn good heel worker too but his high flying offense could really get him over as a face and it's the best platform for him to put his nutty bumping to maximum use. No one in here mentioned the 3 Amigos tribute to Eddie.  Also glad the rebound lariat seems to be a regular part of Ambrose's moveset now. I felt like out of the three Shield members he was the one lacking big signature offense so that's a sweet addition to what he brings to his matches.

I'm not expecting a whole lot from their WrestleMania match but fuck, it's The Shield. It won't be bad.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

:lmao I still enjoy the hell out of this for some reason.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> A show with three awesome main events is worse than a show with one awesome main event? Quite a revelation.


Which is this show with 3 awesome main events?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Luke Harper and Seth Rollins are both awesome.

Rollins is the so damn exciting.

I also think if they put the Real Americans vs. Ambrose/Rollins on PPV, they could produce some of the best tag matches (2-on-2) in recent memory, imo.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Last year had some stellar tags. Rhodes Bros v Rollins/Reigns x2 and Hell No v Rollins/Reigns were excellent.



Eulonzo said:


> :lmao I still enjoy the hell out of this for some reason.


:lmao

Best thing Miz and Truth have ever done.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

That 4-Way from RAW was really awesome, ***3/4 imo.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Kane/Finlay (Belfast Brawl) ****
Kane/Finlay (SummerSlam) ***3/4
Kane/Batista (LMS) ***
JBL/Angle (LMS) ***1/2




SMITTY said:


> Still dont see the HHH 2000 hate, dude was on fire that year and people always seem to look for a reason to hate him more than any other wrestler out there which annoys the fuck out of me, I'm not a huge fan of his but his haters say some of the dumbest shit


You keep repeating the word "HATE", even after they said multiple times he had a *VERY GOOD YEAR*.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> except I'm afraid No Mercy won't hold up either. I apologize for not clarifying earlier and it is my fault.



Honestly, I just watched that NM match Trips/Benoit, and Hunter was excellent in it, it's on Benoit that that match isn't as good as it should have been. And this is coming from a guy who openly loathes Hunter for the most part and has Benoit's nickname as his user name. Hunter worked an EXCELLENT control segment, with some very very good limb work. It's just Benoit decided to totally no-sell it after about 5 minutes. The match is still pretty good and it's definitely enjoyable to watch, it's just not the classic I had remembered it being. I gave it ***3/4 on last watch.

I wouldn't consider 2000 to be anywhere NEAR the best year for a wrestler ever. Thats not the argument I was making. Hunters 2000 MIGHT just crack the top 10, but it's more likely top 15. However, I think it's probably the best year Hunter ever had, although 2005 is right there with it. Outside of the Foley feud in 1997, 2000, 2005, and MAYBE 2004, I really don't care for the rest of Hunter's career, except for a few token matches here and there (Street Fight with Umaga, NM08' with Hardy, NM07' LMS Orton).


Chismo said:


> Kane/Finlay (Belfast Brawl) ****


Kane/Finlay Belfast Brawl :mark: :mark: Thats my second favorite Kane singles match ever (after BB04' w/ Benoit)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> LOL at having a Bob Holly match on the list, no one can have a good match with him so it should be no surprise it was bad


Bob Holly is not THAT bad, tbh. Go watch his ECW TV match with RVD, shit is AWESOME.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HHH had a number of pretty damn awesome years. 2000, half of 2001, 2004, 2005, half of 2006, 2008, and his part time work have all been elite but I'm an HHH mark so that might have something to do with it.... Or that he's awesome. He's wrestled in a lot of shitty matches though, but so has guys like undertaker who has a TON of shit matches. Now I don't think that HHH has quite the match catalogue that Taker has at the moment, but I'm just comparing then to illustrate the point that they've both wrestle in terrible matches, even together (KOTR 02 :lol. Hard to beat Undertaker though, especially after this year when he tears the house down yet again with probably one of the greatest matches in WWE history I'm willing to bet, even if HHH-Bryan delivers well and it well because of who is involved.

I'm REALLY looking forward to Cena Vs Wyatt, the segment last night was one of many awesome segments they've had together, they're really investing heavy into brays character which is a good move, but Wyatt could be solidified with a win here. 

Damn HITMAN, keep uploading those HHH house show matches .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Damn HITMAN, keep uploading those HHH house show matches .


Think i have a HHH/Cena match somewhere.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> HHH had a number of pretty damn awesome years. 2000, half of 2001, 2004, 2005, half of 2006, 2008, and his part time work have all been elite but I'm an HHH mark so that might have something to do with it.... Or that he's awesome. He's wrestled in a lot of shitty matches though, but so has guys like undertaker who has a TON of shit matches. Now I don't think that HHH has quite the match catalogue that Taker has at the moment, but I'm just comparing then to illustrate the point that they've both wrestle in terrible matches, even together (KOTR 02 :lol. Hard to beat Undertaker though, especially after this year when he tears the house down yet again with probably one of the greatest matches in WWE history I'm willing to bet, even if HHH-Bryan delivers well and it well because of who is involved.
> 
> I'm REALLY looking forward to Cena Vs Wyatt, the segment last night was one of many awesome segments they've had together, they're really investing heavy into brays character which is a good move, but Wyatt could be solidified with a win here.
> 
> Damn HITMAN, keep uploading those HHH house show matches .



You have a fair point, but here is the big difference in comparing Taker's "shit" with Hunter's "shit". Taker's "shit" mostly resulted from the following: if it is his earlier career, he mostly wrestled other monsters who couldn't work a good match to save their life. In the middle portion (2003-2007) Taker got put with some new guys like Heidenreich who were put with him specifically because they weren't competent performers yet and the office was hoping working with Taker could teach them a thing or two.

Hunter, for better or worse, has worked on top and in the main event from 2000-2009. Thats 9 solid years where he wrestled at either the top or near the top of the card. For someone who spent that much time having 20 minute + main event matches, the sheer amount of "shit" he produced is almost staggering. Please don't misinterpret this as me "hating" on him. I am just simply not a fan of the vast majority of his work. It's simply not my cup of tea, and it's only my opinon, I'm not in anyway saying you are "wrong" or anything for liking him.

For me, the difference is really simple. I love Undertaker's character and for the most part hate Hunter's character. So even when Taker is having a stinker, I can enjoy it infinitely more because the Deadman is just so cool. When Hunter is having a stinker, I can't even watch because of how annoying I find him to be. Especially as a face. I swear, Hunter has NEVER had a performance as a true baby face that I liked. And then to make matters worse, he could never be just an outright heel. No, he had to make sure that even though he was supposed to be the bad guy, he ALWAYS has to seem like the coolest dude in the ring. I'm old school, I don't think heels are supposed to act "cool", come out and spit water everywhere and pose like a baby face during their entrance. Even now, in his role as the COO, he can't just be a heel. Nope, he has to bash Dave for "living off his former glory" and Orton "for not living up to his potential" so the audience will pop for him and think "even though HHH is a bad guy, man he's still so funny and cool!". Orton and Dave are heels Hunter, both have been the "chosen guys" for your Authority, you should be putting them over to the crowd, not verbally burying them. By saying what you did, you just made yourself look like an idiot for chosing them as your "faces of the WWE".


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*NJPW 24.02.1994 - Jushin Liger vs Shinya Hashimoto *






A great little match for y'all to watch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just got done watching Raw. I'm scared for Undertaker/Brock. If they end up making this a fucking casket match I'm gonna go off the rails.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Can someone please explain what's so great about the following matches?

Angle/Taker NWO 06
HBK/Taker WM 26
Savage/Warrior WM 7 (right?)

Seriously, I see these matches get constant praise and I have no fucking clue why.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TheGMofGods said:


> Can someone please explain what's so great about the following matches?
> 
> Angle/Taker NWO 06
> HBK/Taker WM 26
> ...


Angle/Taker NWO 2006: ****3/4
HBK/Taker WM 26: *****
Savage/Warrior: *****

Those are 3 all time great matches, I'd like to ask you what precisely you don't enjoy about them? Seriously, what is NOT to like about Savage/Warrior WM 7? That match is tits. I'm not saying your WRONG for hating them, I would just love to hear your reasoning for thinking they suck. Then maybe I can explain why so many enjoy them.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Warrior pissed me off so much in that match. It's one of those matches that I know and acknowledge as being a classic, but I just don't like it at all as a fan.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vengeance 03 is the final 03 PPV for me now . Nothing like ending on a high note. Hopefully. God this show better fucking hold up... though it should as it wasn't that long ago I actually reviewed it. I COULD be lazy and just use that :side:. Nah, I'll re-watch.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Warrior pissed me off so much in that match. It's one of those matches that I know and acknowledge as being a classic, but I just don't like it at all as a fan.


Is it the lack of selling after the elbows? Thats really the only gripe I can see. That match isn't great because of Warrior though, it's all Savage. Probably the best "carry-job" (hate that term, but it DOES apply here) I can remember seeing.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone know when this is from:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Was during the build to their No Mercy 03 Chain Match, so around October 2003 probably .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ah, thanks Cal.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Is it the lack of selling after the elbows? Thats really the only gripe I can see. That match isn't great because of Warrior though, it's all Savage. Probably the best "carry-job" (hate that term, but it DOES apply here) I can remember seeing.


That's part of the reason as to why the match isn't so great to me. It's a very big carryjob.There were some absoluely brilliant moments from Savage, especially the ways he took advantage, but from what I remember, there was nothing special at all about this match from an in ring standpoint. I plan on rewatching the match, it's been a long time since I've seen it.

Angle/Taker imo suffered from the same problem HBK/Angle did. Very lazy, uncreative match that turned out to be nothing more than a giant spotfest without any real story being told. Taker barely sold the effects of multiple ankle locks, the table spot was extremely unnecessary, the super belly tobelly was incredibly stupid and predictable, and the entire thing was a giant mess. The match gets ***1/2 ftom me, and i feel like I'm being nice here.

I still to this day say that HBK/Taker WM 26 is the most overrated WM match of all time. Not only is it unsuperior to their previous match in everyway, it was nothing more than a giant finisher fest. And before that began, it was a giant spotfest. They tried way too hard with this match, and rather than let things flow naturally and not make things seem forced like they did in their previous match, they just tried to make the match feel as epic as possible, which resulted in incredibly predictable moments, very poor storytelling, and a much more slow paced match focusing more on moves. The match IMHO is *** at the most. You might think otherwise, but I simply can't stand matches like these. They are lazy, uninspiring matches.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

unsuperior


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Is it the lack of selling after the elbows? Thats really the only gripe I can see. That match isn't great because of Warrior though, it's all Savage. Probably the best "carry-job" (hate that term, but it DOES apply here) I can remember seeing.


I also thought the ending was terrible. This is supposed to be the career match of Savage and he retires from such a weak move. Warrior's offense in general was something I never dug. I still think it's an amazing match, but I actually had more fun with their Summerslam rematch.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

Shield/Real Americans was super fun. ***1/2 sounds about right. Ambrose is a much better face in peril than I expected which is triffic (also jawbreaker lariat fuck) and the Real Americans have a lot of nifty teamwork. Plus Rollins for the hot tag is all sorts of good.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Basically what Shep said. I was super surprised that Ambrose was able to play the FIP so well. Thought for sure it would've been Rollins, then Ambrose getting the hot tag to come in and go berserk on everyone with his unorthodox offense. That lariat was SICK and Rollins coming in to do what he does was great. Would love a few more matches between the two teams. RA work really well together and of course Cesaro is growing more and more over every passing week.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Looks like I should check out the Shield/RA tag. Yesterday I came home from the gym and just fell asleep and (despite the alarm) woke up right at the end of it when they powerbombed Cesaro through the table and only caught the (underwhelming) main event segment.

Only watched the segments for the Orton/Batista/Bryan/HHH angle so far.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> *NJPW 24.02.1994 - Jushin Liger vs Shinya Hashimoto *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I second this. I may be only guy alive who was pulling for Liger to stay up w/the Heavyweights. :side:



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Just got done watching Raw. I'm scared for Undertaker/Brock. If they end up making this a fucking casket match I'm gonna go off the rails.


I think it was only there per Undertaker's theatrics. No way they'll ruin the match by putting in a sub-par gimmick when the streak is all about the moment someone can earn a three count (or submission..)

I know vs Mark Henry happened but shit. You could tell the company wanted to use Henry but they weren't completely convinced or something.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I didn't see the finish, but I would also not be a fan of that happening. Perhaps they want to avoid Brock eating another pin? Idk, being tossed into a casket seems even worse.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There's zero shame in suffering a pinfall loss to Undertaker & at WM to boot. There should be no reason to cushion anything. My brother was cracking jokes about this and I wrote it off. Now that others are worrying, it's making me think I shouldn't be so naive to WWE stupidity. Dammit.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, there's really no issue to eating a pin. Tapping to Hell's Gate or getting stuffed into a casket is much more humiliating imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A tease w/the submission would be good. Don't have to him submit to it, but he's teased submitting to both Punker & Trips, so I can almost assume this spot for a lock. _(that sounds stupid to guess a damn spot, but you get what I'm driving at._ )

more DRAMA


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Oh yeah, it'll definitely come into play w/Taker basically trying everything to keep THE BEAST down, but I don't necessarily want him tapping out.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Even though I'm still HYPED for Brock/Taker, the segment last night on Raw was all wrong. Shouldn't they be playing up LESNAR AS A FUCKING BEAST? He took some punches from Undertaker then pussied out. Shouldn't Lesnar like, be destroying him or something? And Shouldn't Lesnar NOT look scared shitless? Punk looked more of a threat last year :lmao. Seabs says it pretty much every year now, but building a STREAK match SHOULD be the simplest thing on earth, yet for the last couple of years they've done in essentially the wrong direction with it. The whole video package Heyman introduced last week was great, showing how Undertaker was this big legend and did all these great things at WM, but over the last few years time has caught up to him, and while he overcame those opponents, LESNAR is a different beast. So uhhh, shouldn't THAT be the build? Having Lesnar show Undertaker that he's too old to beat him? SOMETHING? Fucks sake. It ain't brain surgery or rocket science.

That being said I did :lmao when Lesnar finally opened the casket after being shit scared of it, only for it to be empty and the crowd burst out laughing at him.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, I don't know how they could fuck up the booking of Brock that badly. Taker is obviously going to win, so try to make Brock look like a threat based on more than just his name and physique by actually having Taker laid out at his hands. They're probably saving it for the go-home show. Did Punk ever get the upper-hand other than the segment with the ashes & the urn?

It's still not a big deal as long as the match delivers. Every build-up has been bad for Taker's matches ever since he went part-time. HHH II was them cutting the same promo every week, WM28 was the same with HBK added for drama and last year it looks like they didn't even have anything planned had it not been for Bearer dying.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> unsuperior


Did I really just fucking say that? Good lord my mind is all kinds of fucked right now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I would have preferred them to go a more 'realistic' route rather then the cliched casket routine way TBH.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Well I'm upset about Taker/Lesnar . This build didn't even have to be great, it just had to be good or at least _tangible _so that we had some kind of story to take us to the match but instead this has been a huge pile of crap and it's so disappointing. Don't get me wrong, I'm still looking forward to the match but not as much as I was after the initial confrontation. I'm hoping that just seeing them standing across the ring from each other and all the spectacle of Wrestlemania makes this underwhelmed feeling go away. I think it will because it's still Taker and it's still Lesnar but yeah, this is the worst streak build in a long time. Last year blew chunks and even that was better than this nonsense. Anyway, the match should hopefully still be good but they're going in with a blank slate. Maybe that will turn out to be better in the end since they can write the story in the ring? I don't know. It's the biggest match on the card but has the worst build out of all the top matches. Figure that one out.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Even though I'm still HYPED for Brock/Taker, the segment last night on Raw was all wrong. Shouldn't they be playing up LESNAR AS A FUCKING BEAST? He took some punches from Undertaker then pussied out. Shouldn't Lesnar like, be destroying him or something? And Shouldn't Lesnar NOT look scared shitless? Punk looked more of a threat last year :lmao. Seabs says it pretty much every year now, but building a STREAK match SHOULD be the simplest thing on earth, yet for the last couple of years they've done in essentially the wrong direction with it. The whole video package Heyman introduced last week was great, showing how Undertaker was this big legend and did all these great things at WM, but over the last few years time has caught up to him, and while he overcame those opponents, LESNAR is a different beast. So uhhh, shouldn't THAT be the build? Having Lesnar show Undertaker that he's too old to beat him? SOMETHING? Fucks sake. It ain't brain surgery or rocket science.
> 
> That being said I did :lmao when Lesnar finally opened the casket after being shit scared of it, only for it to be empty and the crowd burst out laughing at him.


That's the problem they've booked themselves into here. If they let both men go wild, I assume they fear 'Taker might get hurt so close to Mania (rather hurt by Brock at the big stage than before it). The downside to this, though, is that it makes Brock look weaker than he should, as he's getting downtrodden now, only to then lose, to boot, at Mania.

I'd assume their actual match will be one-sided to Brock's favour - Hell's Gate transitioned into a one-armed deadlift seems a lock. From how I see things, too, the casket was just there as a psychological tool to stagger Brock's cool. I can see creative thinking 'Taker's supernormal powers would be why Brock was more hesitant than anything, last night, but I'd say it was a better look on paper than it came out being.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Damn HITMAN, keep uploading those HHH house show matches .


Another House Show upload:

*John Cena vs Triple H - Milano Forum, Italy (Raw House Show - 19.04.2006)*

x1josue


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Just rewatched Warrior/Savage. Definitely not the classic everyone makes it out to be in my eyes. In fact a lot worse than I remember it. The last 7 minutes were just a complete mess.

And I feel like people were expecting way too much out of the Lesnar/Taker build. From the beginning I said not to expect much out of it. Odds are it wasn't going to be anything good. Taker's health concerns make it impossible to have a decent build from him these days especially when he has such a limited schedule. Nothing about it works. 

From a match stand point, this match will either end up being horrible, or it will end up being something great. Odds are, if injuries become even the slightest issue, I feel like we aren't going to have a very good match out of this. Lets hope I'm wrong.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Hitman said:


> Another House Show upload:
> 
> *John Cena vs Triple H - Milano Forum, Italy (Raw House Show - 19.04.2006)*
> 
> x1josue


TREE-POL H! TREE-POL H! :lol I went to a house show back in 2006 that featured Cena/Hunter as the main event. Atmosphere was amazing. In 2012 they were advertising Cena/Punk which I was looking forward to and then they changed it to Cena/Ziggler and Punk/Ryback. That blew.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TheGMofGods said:


> Just rewatched Warrior/Savage. Definitely not the classic everyone makes it out to be in my eyes. In fact a lot worse than I remember it. The last 7 minutes were just a complete mess.



That's really, really funny. I just this second finished watching it too, and was just coming in here to post how wrong you are about that match, that's it's still an all time classic, and STILL a top 5 match in WM history IMO. The last 5 minutes a mess?! The entire match is just perfection. It's EXACTLY how a Macho King vs Warrior match should go. Every single move felt HUGE, the desperation Macho showed was awesome, and just the way the guys played their characters was incredibly awesome to see. When Warrior kicks out after the elbows and gets all pumped up, when Macho kicks out after the gorilla press slam and Warrior grows despondent and looks to his "gods"....that's some awesome character work. That match is just FUN to watch and highly entertaining. I think you are just thinking too hard when you watch it. 

I'll never change my opinion on this matter. This past viewing just sealed it, I will love this match for life.

Now, I've just gotta decide which match I like more, Macho/Warrior WM 7, or Macho/Flair WM 8 :hmm:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Now, I've just gotta decide which match I like more, Macho/Warrior WM 7, or Macho/Flair WM 8 :hmm:


No contest for me, Flair/Savage smoked Warrior/Savage IMHO. not saying the WM7 match is bad, i love it too for its pure storytelling, but i love the WM8 more than just its story, it had that and an awesome match included too.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

TheGMofGods said:


> And I feel like people were expecting way too much out of the Lesnar/Taker build. From the beginning I said not to expect much out of it. Odds are it wasn't going to be anything good. Taker's health concerns make it impossible to have a decent build from him these days especially when he has such a limited schedule. Nothing about it works.
> 
> From a match stand point, this match will either end up being horrible, or it will end up being something great. Odds are, if injuries become even the slightest issue, I feel like we aren't going to have a very good match out of this. Lets hope I'm wrong.


Each year the concerns about Taker's health get worse and worse but he still manages to produce what's required of him and then some. I have faith. If Lesnar/Taker doesn't deliver we're probably looking at a mediocre Mania. I don't have high expectations for anything else on the card except for Bryan/Hunter, and H is in that so there's always the chance it might fall short. Personally I don't think it will, not with Trips working heel, Bryan being Bryan, the great build and what is sure to be an electric atmosphere. Other than that though I can't say I'm confident of any match being very good. Cena needs to bring his A game against Bray.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's really, really funny. I just this second finished watching it too, and was just coming in here to post how wrong you are about that match, that's it's still an all time classic, and STILL a top 5 match in WM history IMO. The last 5 minutes a mess?! The entire match is just perfection. It's EXACTLY how a Macho King vs Warrior match should go. Every single move felt HUGE, the desperation Macho showed was awesome, and just the way the guys played their characters was incredibly awesome to see. When Warrior kicks out after the elbows and gets all pumped up, when Macho kicks out after the gorilla press slam and Warrior grows despondent and looks to his "gods"....that's some awesome character work. That match is just FUN to watch and highly entertaining. I think you are just thinking too hard when you watch it.
> 
> I'll never change my opinion on this matter. This past viewing just sealed it, I will love this match for life.
> 
> Now, I've just gotta decide which match I like more, Macho/Warrior WM 7, or Macho/Flair WM 8 :hmm:


It's Savage vs Warrior for me, but there's always going to be love for Savage vs Flair.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's really, really funny. I just this second finished watching it too, and was just coming in here to post how wrong you are about that match, that's it's still an all time classic, and STILL a top 5 match in WM history IMO. The last 5 minutes a mess?! The entire match is just perfection. It's EXACTLY how a Macho King vs Warrior match should go. Every single move felt HUGE, the desperation Macho showed was awesome, and just the way the guys played their characters was incredibly awesome to see. When Warrior kicks out after the elbows and gets all pumped up, when Macho kicks out after the gorilla press slam and Warrior grows despondent and looks to his "gods"....that's some awesome character work. That match is just FUN to watch and highly entertaining. I think you are just thinking too hard when you watch it.
> 
> I'll never change my opinion on this matter. This past viewing just sealed it, I will love this match for life.
> 
> Now, I've just gotta decide which match I like more, Macho/Warrior WM 7, or Macho/Flair WM 8 :hmm:


Ive shared my thoughts with you on Flair/Savage already :hbk so its Warrior/Savage for me, you shoud check out the Japan 96 match Zep uploaded I liked way more

I was telling Cody and SEJ in the CB, most here and outside pimp his LMS w/ HHH, bash match w/ Mysterio and mania and ladder match with Michaels, but its upsetting the Evan Bourne/Jericho match @ Fatal 4 2010 gets no love, such a tremendous and amazing match, I haven't even heard of it until a few days ago when Yeah reviewed it, but its amazing. From what Ive seen in 2010 its a top 10 match and one of Y2J's finest


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The thing I loved most about Savage/Warrior was just how well everything fit together and how it was built. It's that over used phrase "no wasted motion", there isn't a punch, a kick, a slam, anything done without explicit purpose and a clear motivation by the performer. It really feels like a heavy weight boxing match in that there is just this tangible electricity whenever they lock up. I don't know how you can watch that match and not just feel how big everything is. What also needs to be mentioned is the Sherri factor. She was spectacular. Sherri is clearly the best female valet of all time in my eyes, and she had an awesome impact on this bout. She serves as a great distraction to Warrior, and allows Macho to constantly get the upper hand or to weasel out of unfavorable predicaments.


Skins- I actually haven't seen Jericho/Bourne from Fatal 4 Way, thanks for the rec I'll check it out now. Orton/Taker Armageddon will just have to wait. I'm watching Austin/Angle SS 2001 for the billionth time and it almost over (Angle just planted Austin with a DDT) 

Can never, ever, get enough Austin/Angle. Im ALMOST to the point where I enjoy it even more than the WM 13 submission match

P.s. skins did you see our boy ZIGGLER steal the show in that 4 way on Raw?! I'm so proud.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I actually prefer it to the Triple H Last Man Standing match from Fully Loaded. Both are completely different, but for a Jericho match I find to be great, yeah, give me the match vs Bourne over it. But the LMS is still good. I'm just not gaga over it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jericho said something interesting on his Podcast. He said he has a notebook where he has written down every match he's ever had, who his opponent was, the date, the finish, and how many ~STARZ he thinks it gets. He said he only has 1 5-star match, but didn't elaborate on what it was (guessing vs Benoit at RR)

He also said Evan Bourne is the closest we will ever get to another Mysterio.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm watching :jericho3 vs. unk2 from WrestleMania 28 on the Network.

This still remains to be the second best match on the card.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, for me yeah, it would be the ladder vs Benoit. But who knows what his own persona criteria is. Maybe it's something vs Rock. He loved working vs him. Maybe it's the Power Trip tag. Dunno.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Well, for me yeah, it would be the ladder vs Benoit. But who knows what his own persona criteria is. Maybe it's something vs Rock. He loved working vs him. Maybe it's the Power Trip tag. Dunno.



I think it is the Power Trip tag actually. Austin asked him on his podcast what his favorite match is, and he said it was that tag, so maybe that's it. His NM and RR matches with Rocky are just awesome though, those don't get brought up as often as they probably should.

Evan vs Jericho F4W was excellent. I love the desperation shown by Bourne, love how Jericho berates him while laying in those kicks and forearms, LOVE the Codebreaker in the end (one of the better ones I've seen from him, I don't really like that move, but with 1 knee it looks awesome). Definitely a great match, best I've seen from Bourne in the WWE (haven't seen any of Sydal's Indy stuff)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wouldn't be a shocker in any capacity if it's the tag. Do love both the Jericho vs Rock matches too. Great stuff.

Bourne or Sydal, his body of work has always been good for me. I can see plenty almost preferring a bit of his WWE work since the company has done a good job at positioning him in proper underdog roles. That and being more experienced helps. Always been a fan on my end.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Skins- I actually haven't seen Jericho/Bourne from Fatal 4 Way, thanks for the rec I'll check it out now. Orton/Taker Armageddon will just have to wait. I'm watching Austin/Angle SS 2001 for the billionth time and it almost over (Angle just planted Austin with a DDT)
> 
> P.s. skins did you see our boy ZIGGLER steal the show in that 4 way on Raw?! I'm so proud.


Yea check it out, I vouch for it 100%

And yea saw ziggles, warmed my heart he was getting a good reaction, NY loves Ziggler so its even more of a + as I live here, I wasnt expecting him to win as he and Big E are both faces, so idk why some ziggler marks and others are mad by it



HayleySabin said:


> I actually prefer it to the Triple
> H Last Man Standing match from Fully Loaded. Both are completely different, but for a Jericho match I find to be great, yeah, give me the match vs Bourne over it. But the LMS is still good. I'm just not gaga over it.


I prefer it to the LMS too, I've voice my opinion on Jerchio many of times so I wont get into it again, but I found that bourne match to be one of the few of his "great" matches



Go check out more of his stuff Cjack, most have forgotten about him but he was tremendous, when I got back into wrestling him,ziggles, and punk were the first I gravitated towards


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Sydal/Bourne has always been one of my favourite wrestlers, has a great catalogue of matches from his "indy days" that very rarely get spoken about and whilst he's only had the one breakthrough match in the WWE (in terms of the casuals, that being the F4W Jericho match) he's always been one of the more consistent and reliable workers in the company with the ability to turn many heads when given the opportunity, which is all you can ask for when you position a guy the way they have him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That forgotten good match vs Swagger from Capitol Punishment. It's like nobody remembers it b/c of how poor the PPV is and it's not Punk vs Mysterio. It's got another gem on it too, people. BOURNE. _(and SWAGGER)_

Four way last night was the kind of match that comes off as the perfect example why Fatal Four Way matches don't always work. Didn't care for it despite being big fans of all four. Not a big deal, RAW gave me Harper vs Cena & Shield vs Real Americans. Shame about the Christian job set for tonight though.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just watched Savage/Warrior for the first time. Don't have a fucking clue what the guy was talking about when he said it was a shitty match, this was basically perfect and the only reason it doesn't get 5 stars is because warrior was meh in it, if its a five star match, BOTH guys need to bring there A game, Savage did for sure but Warrior just didn't do much in it. Great carry by Savage though, some of the most exciting wrestling I have ever seen although I thought the finish was a bit abrupt. ****3/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually knew more about the CP match than the F4 way one, didnt realize it was well know. Yea :lol I was laughing while watching the fatal 4 last night, so many botches and the flow was anything but on, those were one of those match you know each guy would have gotten an ear full from Vince in gorilla


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's really, really funny. I just this second finished watching it too, and was just coming in here to post how wrong you are about that match, that's it's still an all time classic, and STILL a top 5 match in WM history IMO. The last 5 minutes a mess?! The entire match is just perfection. It's EXACTLY how a Macho King vs Warrior match should go. Every single move felt HUGE, the desperation Macho showed was awesome, and just the way the guys played their characters was incredibly awesome to see. When Warrior kicks out after the elbows and gets all pumped up, when Macho kicks out after the gorilla press slam and Warrior grows despondent and looks to his "gods"....that's some awesome character work. That match is just FUN to watch and highly entertaining. I think you are just thinking too hard when you watch it.
> 
> I'll never change my opinion on this matter. This past viewing just sealed it, I will love this match for life.
> 
> Now, I've just gotta decide which match I like more, Macho/Warrior WM 7, or Macho/Flair WM 8 :hmm:


It's not a perfect match. Not even close. The first 10 minutes of it were decent for a Warrior match, it was nothing special. You basically see two guys stalling for an entire match until they get to their big mark. And then you see one of the biggest crimes in Pro Wrestling. A guy hitting his finisher 5 TIMES on someone, and they STILL KICK OUT. That's basically the ultimate burial, regardless of whether or not you're a face or a heel.

And then to make matters worse, Warrior hits his finisher and Savage kicks out? Okay, that's actually pretty cool, I like it because it adds unpredictability to the match and also adds to the whole "Savage being desperate" thing. But then he just randomly looks up and starts asking the heaven's for an answer? I get that he's acting in character, but it gets to a point where it becomes illogical. I actually counted, he wasted over two minutes doing that. Two minutes. Storyline wise this doesn't make the slightest amount of sense considering how easily he can hit his finisher again if he wanted to. And then he actually considers LEAVING?! I hated that part. Again, absolutely nothing about it made sense.

And then you're telling me that I'm supposed to believe that Sherri can actually hold Warrior down long enough onto the railing and through this there's no DQ made? Bullshit. And to make matters worse, the most predictable moment happens in that Warrior ducks out of the way, and Savage misses and gets hit with three shoulder blocks...and then gets pinned with Warrior's leg on top of him. 

So Warrior can't put Savage away with his finisher, but three shoulder blocks and standing on him to pin him gets him the win? Again, bullshit. It is not deserving of being called a classic and it most certainly was not a perfect match. For a Warrior match it deserves credit for being great, but to call it a classic and a perfect match is just unbelievably stupid in many ways. 

Again, just my opinion. 



SMITTY said:


> Just watched Savage/Warrior for the first time. Don't have a fucking clue what the guy was talking about when he said it was a shitty match


I never called it a shitty match. Don't put words in my mouth.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://whatculture.com/wwe/20-horrifically-stupid-things-ever-happened-wcw.php/5

Forgot about a few of these. :lol


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thought I remembered you calling it shitty, guess not, but I was just saying why I disagree with you, wasn't saying your opinion is wrong 

Will say I agree with you on Angle/Taker,need to rewatch it but I wouldn't put it at **** or above for sure


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's all BULLSHIT guys.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Cena/Harper and especially Shield/Real Americans from RAW were both really good - great. Duh, look who was involved in them.

Bray Wyatt is fucking AWESOME btw.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The commercial break positively RUINED any chance of that 4 way last night being good. Right when things started picking up, boom, 3 minute commercial break. And to matters worse, when they came back from commercial, the crowd was going crazy, just driving home the point even more that some good stuff must have happened while they were away fpalm. FFS WWE, would it kill you to time the breaks so they aren't right in the middle of the matches? I'd much rather have them cut away from one of those coma inducing Authority promos than an actual match. Whatever. Match wasn't great or anything but it wasn't bad, and Ziggler had an awesome showing and easily got the best reaction out of all the participants. One of these days they will do something with him, I won't give up hope. 

GMofGods: I'm not gonna keep arguing with you, suffice to say I don't think I couldnt disagree with everything you said anymore than I already do. Did you really say they were "stalling" for the first 10 minutes of the match? Christ, I thought that was the best part of the whole bout. Kicking out of 5 elbows isn't a "burial", stop using words that you don't know the meaning of. The entire match was meticulously laid about by Savage with absolutely zero input from anyone else other than the finish. Do you really think he was "burying" himself when he made that spot? No, it's called being unselfish for the sake of the match. Savage knew he was done as an active wrestler in the WWE and he wanted to put Warrior over as strongly as he could while also giving the fans one hell of a match. Savage was a HEEL, it's okay for HEELS to suffer embarrassment, that's why they exist in wrestling. I can point out tons of examples of guys kicking out of 2 or more finishers right in a row, just watch Takers matches with Vader and Kane. Plus, come on, it's an elbow drop. That move was never ever put over as this devastating finisher. It was more signature move than anything, there is a laundry list of guys who kicked out of Savages elbow.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im sure WWE put those commercials in during breaks at a certain point on purpose just to get us to get the fucking APP. I don't want the fucking APP thankyou.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> GMofGods: I'm not gonna keep arguing with you, suffice to say I don't think I couldnt disagree with everything you said anymore than I already do. Did you really say they were "stalling" for the first 10 minutes of the match? Christ, I thought that was the best part of the whole bout. Kicking out of 5 elbows isn't a "burial", stop using words that you don't know the meaning of.


Don't try to tell me I don't know the meaning of the term "burial". Unlike a lot of people here I actually do know what burial means, and I tend not to say it randomly about any person that gets beat by Cena like 90% of the forum does. 

It was a burial, in every way possible. If you don't like that then I'm sorry, but it was a burial and it was absolute bullshit storyline wise. 

And yes, they were stalling. If you know a lot about pro wrestling then you can easily tell when people are stalling. 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> The entire match was meticulously laid about by Savage with absolutely zero input from anyone else other than the finish. Do you really think he was "burying" himself when he made that spot?


Unless you have any actual proof that Savage wanted that spot to happen (which I could probably figure out if I stopped being a lazy prick), I don't believe that Savage was dumb enough to do that spot. And regardless if his intentions that's a burial. 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> No, it's called being unselfish for the sake of the match. Savage knew he was done as an active wrestler in the WWE and he wanted to put Warrior over as strongly as he could while also giving the fans one hell of a match.


...so you make it look like he can't beat a guy after hitting his finisher five times on him? 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Savage was a HEEL, it's okay for HEELS to suffer embarrassment, that's why they exist in wrestling. I can point out tons of examples of guys kicking out of 2 or more finishers right in a row, just watch Takers matches with Vader and Kane.


Undertaker wasn't the heel in those matches nor were they consecutive times in a row. I don't remember the vader matches but in his match with Kane, he tried to pin Kane after the first try, which didn't work. He hit the move and tried again, and failed. He hit the move one last time and this time did a normal cover on him. Not even close to what happened in the Savage/Warrior match. 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Plus, come on, it's an elbow drop. That move was never ever put over as this devastating finisher. It was more signature move than anything, there is a laundry list of guys who kicked out of Savages elbow.


There isn't a list of guys who kicked out after getting hit by it five times.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Alrighty I'm definitely done with that argument. If you honestly believe Randy Savage was "buried" by having that match with Warrior, no amount of facts are ever going to change your mind. Just as long as your realize you're on an island with this opinion of yours, I've yet to see anyone express anything so preposterous. And if YOU knew anything about Randy Savage, you'd know that every single detail of all his matches was meticulously planned by Randy, there is never "stalling" and he certainly wouldn't do anything that could even be misconstrued as "burying" himself. Savage doesn't stall in his matches because Savage knows exactly what is supposed to happen every second in everyone of his matches. He made people rehearse with him for weeks before matches for god sakes, especially a match as big as his retirement match at Mania with a guy as green as Warrior.

If you want to respond just PM me I don't want to hijack this thread


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> The entire match is just perfection.


c'mon the finish is god-awful. IIRC Warrior, like, sort of kicks Savage who lands on his feet on the outside and Warrior lazily pulls him back in the ring and pins him standing up with one boot.

I watched Savage/Warrior three times between 2009 and 2010 and honestly never really liked it. It was so long ago that I can't really remember specifics as to why, but that finish is straight-up shit.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Jericho said something interesting on his Podcast. He said he has a notebook where he has written down every match he's ever had, who his opponent was, the date, the finish, and how many ~STARZ he thinks it gets. He said he only has 1 5-star match, but didn't elaborate on what it was (guessing vs Benoit at RR)


That's obsessive and totally awesome. Also the five star match would have to be the one with MIKE ENOS.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, Savage went all out trying to put Warrior over by agreeing to that type on final pin. Didn't agree with that myself.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> c'mon the finish is god-awful. IIRC Warrior, like, sort of kicks Savage who lands on his feet on the outside and Warrior lazily pulls him back in the ring and pins him standing up with one boot.
> 
> I watched Savage/Warrior three times between 2009 and 2010 and honestly never really liked it. It was so long ago that I can't really remember specifics as to why, but that finish is straight-up shit.
> 
> ...



Anti-climactic? Sure. The finish could have been better, but I don't think it was "shit", nor do I think it did anything to detract from the match. It definitely didn't add to it, a great finish should always be the cherry on top of a delicious sundae. The Savage/Warrior sundae was still absolutely delicious, with it's piping hot fudge, fresh nuts, and a double helping of whipped cream, even without the cherry. It's not like someone replaced the cherry with a hot steaming turd and ruined the whole sundae. They just forgot the cherry, if that makes sense.

Wow, I took that analogy a little too far. My bad.

And what match did Jericho have with MIKE ENOS? Probably on Nitro in, like, 1998 right?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Read that on wwe.com there is an article remembering the various casket matches. I hope it's just to do with Raw and not a hint for Mania.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Alrighty I'm definitely done with that argument. If you honestly believe Randy Savage was "buried" by having that match with Warrior, no amount of facts are ever going to change your mind.  Just as long as your realize you're on an island with this opinion of yours, I've yet to see anyone express anything so preposterous. And if YOU knew anything about Randy Savage, you'd know that every single detail of all his matches was meticulously planned by Randy, there is never "stalling" and he certainly wouldn't do anything that could even be misconstrued as "burying" himself. Savage doesn't stall in his matches because Savage knows exactly what is supposed to happen every second in everyone of his matches. He made people rehearse with him for weeks before matches for god sakes, especially a match as big as his retirement match at Mania with a guy as green as Warrior.
> 
> If you want to respond just PM me I don't want to hijack this thread


I don't doubt at all that Savage does his matches before hand, but I can guarantee you that spot was not his idea, and if you think otherwise, well then that's your own problem to deal with. Regardless, it most certainly not a perfect match by any means and I'm definitely not the only one who thinks this. In fact the only one saying it's a perfect match in anyway so far is yourself.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'll always call the finish shit. It's the kind of thing I look and just think it's inexcusable how a big math could end like that. Savage lands ON HIS FEET outside and that's basically the match's end. AWWWWFUL. I wouldn't call it a match-ruin-er but again I've never really cared about the match anyway. I'll re-watch it one of these days.

Jericho/Enos is 9/23/96. Seems to be taken from dailymotion, though.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah I'll also say the finish to Savage/Warrior was mediocre, loved the match altogether though, just wouldn't call it perfect. 

Just watched both Bret/Perfect matches, decided on ****3/4 for both, but I think I like the KOTR match a bit more


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Skins, I'm watching WM 24, and just finished Shawn/Flair :jose


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

THE FEELS


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

You're not Skins. LOL at me. The Flair sig threw me off.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Throws most off :kobe and I'm changing my sig to naitch soon too, his name is in all caps too, I'm flattered you want to be me Smitty :hbk not a bad choice in a role model

Watching Michaels/Razor ss 94 , really really underrated chemistry these guys have 


Michaels/flair II ********************** stars


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Can anyone tell me the best 4-5 COTC events? I have them all on my PC and would like to watch one 

LOL Skins I already told you I went all caps because I thought just Smitty was already taken and names were case sensitive, not that I think your a role model :ti 

And if your changing your sig to flair I need a GOAT replacement for my GOAT sig, need to find one of Tajiri spraying the green mist


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

bme said:


> I like Seth Rollins way more then I liked Tyler Black, someone made mention of a Rollins/Harper match that'd be awesome.


It's shocking how much better he is now. If I'm ever going to complain about the Developmental System in place I need to remind myself that Rollins was a spotty as fuck indy guy and now he does all hos great stuff but is also a phenomenal worker.



Odafin Tutuola said:


> Skins, I'm watching WM 24, and just finished Shawn/Flair :jose


I thought the :jose meant that you hated the match and then I realized you just thought the ending was very sad. 



Survivor Series 1987

*Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat, Jake Roberts, Brutus Beefcake, and Jim Duggan vs. The Honky Tonk Man, Danny Davis, Hercules, Ron Bass, and Harley Race
*
There’s too much talent on the face team for this to be anything but good. I can’t say it was great but everything was worked smartly enough. A few of the eliminations were weak and they really made sure to protect everyone on the face team. I still liked the pacing of the match and there were some good control segments. There’ just nothing that stands out and lets me say why the match was so great, there just isn’t anything extraordinary that they did. Throw enough talent together and give them enough time and you usually get something good out of it. I did like how important the numbers were. Particularly it seemed that once you were down to 2 guys and lost an advantage your team looked screwed. 
*****


*The Glamour Girls, Dawn Marie (not that one), Donna Christanello , and Sensational Sherri vs. Velvet McIntyre, Rockin’ Robin, The Jumping Bomb Angels, and The Fabulous Moolah*

It’s almost comical how much better the Jumping Bomb Angels are then everyone else in the match. When they were in there it was pretty entertaining. Some of the other women in the match weren’t nearly on the same level. Most of the dead weight was eliminated quickly and the match thankfully featured the Glamour Girls and Angels more than anyone else. The Glamour Girls, despite their ironic names based on their appearance, are actually pretty solid workers. I would say that is significantly better than the Divas Elimination match from the most recent Survivor Series, which really isn’t saying much. It was solid, free from too many botches, and there were moments where it was really fun. Good enough for me.
****


*The Bolsheviks, Demolition, The Hart Foundation, The Islanders, and The Dream Team w/ Bobby Heenan, Mr. Fuji, Slick, Johnny Valiant and Jimmy Hart vs. The Strikers, The British Bulldogs, The Killer Bees, The Rougeau Brothers and The Young Stallions*

First, holy shit at the managers on the heel team. It’s not really easy to tell a single story when there are 20 guys in a match and with eliminations going by team it was even tougher. Despite there not being a single story it was still pretty fun to watch. It’s just a shame that certain teams didn’t last longer. Why are the face tag champions getting eliminated early instead of the the Young Stallions? The beginning was actually really interesting because it was just impossible to isolate anyone as there were guys surrounding almost the entire ring (which also made it a little hard to see). With so many guys in the match the pacing was never slow. The dynamic between all the teams was also pretty cool. It was noticeable how everyone would much rather tag in their partner instead of someone else on the team. I just wish that certain teams had lasted longer than others. Good match and very watchable for 37 minutes.
****½ *


*Andre the Giant, The One Man Gang, Butch Reed, King Kong Bundy, and Rick Rude vs. Hulk Hogan, Bam Bam Bigelow, Don Muraco, Ken Patera, and Paul Orndorff *

There was some good and some bad. Thankfully Rude was on the heel team as he was pretty much the only person who would take bumps for the faces. Reed might have but he didn’t last very long. The whole match was centered around seeing Hogan and Andre in the ring together, which while it it did happen didn’t last very long. I actually thought the end of the match as pretty great where we got to see the big showdown and then we saw an amazing underdog performance from Bam Bam Bigelow. There were certainly some rough patches (how great does Patera/Bundy sound right?!) but there was enough stuff that I really liked for me not to complain too much. A very low:
*****​
I’ll take a show like this over some of the other shows that were happening around the time period. I’ll take 3 matches that I can call good over 12 matches that are all 4 minutes long any day of the week.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Some of us are lucky and own Jericho vs Enos on DVD. :hayley3


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*The Rhodes Brothers Vs The Real Americans (18/03/2014 WWE)* - It's rather dichotomous that, on their flagship show, WWE has Goldust being wasted with Fandango yet here, on Main Event, he's given time in a hell of an opener. It's great to see how polished both teams are, too. Where you'd often see a rest hold used to elongate a match or give both men a respite, here it's a quick, no-nonsense move that gets Rhodes over huge as the FIP. Much of that praise has to lie on the time they were given, though, as the short period keeps the match both frenetic and allows for each man to ensure that every move has an end-game reasoning. Shaping from Goldust/Cesaro to a Cody FIP, to a RhodeBros hope spot and down to an elongated Goldust FIP in a mere ten minutes is as crazy as it sounds. The final five is even nuttier.

Both teams also seemed to employ new moves into their arsenal here, and it would be great to see them being used more on the bigger shows. The Rhodes Bros double dives have always been a great hope spot, yet the Cesaro Swing into a catapulted slam by Swagger is damn impressive. It's equally impressive how both teams gel, and how great both Swagger and Cody have become in their roles. Both were left in the shadows of their partners at their own team's creation, yet now have found their niche and are welcomed additions to their matches at this point. Stupendously good match.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Could someone throw some star ratings at the matches on the Legends Of The Mid-South Wrestling DVD, please?

I've read some of you rave about it, but I want to see if the matches that I'm interested in are some of the ones that are really good. Thanks!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Could someone throw some star ratings at the matches on the Legends Of The Mid-South Wrestling DVD, please?
> 
> I've read some of you rave about it, but I want to see if the matches that I'm interested in are some of the ones that are really good. Thanks!


There is a review with some ratings:

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/review-wwe-legends-of-mid-south-wrestling-dvd/49722/

A guide at least.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

WWF Title: Austin/Kane (Raw 98/6/29) **** _(honestly, this was excellent)_

Cage Match: Kane/X-Pac (Armageddon 1999) ***


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Some of us are lucky and own Jericho vs Enos on DVD. :hayley3


Well, thought id upload it then. 

*Chris Jericho vs Mike Enos - WCW Nitro 23.09.1996*

x1jt8fd


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Has anyone watched that grandiose TAJIRI/Nishimura match I boldly pimped?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I hate everything about that Austin/Kane match. What good is taping up an injury when you don't sell it? Why is Steve Austin acting like Kota Ibushi?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> Could someone throw some star ratings at the matches on the Legends Of The Mid-South Wrestling DVD, please?
> 
> I've read some of you rave about it, but I want to see if the matches that I'm interested in are some of the ones that are really good. Thanks!


Watch Duggan/Sawyer from the Blu Ray extras, best match on the set, a 5-star caliber brawl, and probably my favorite brawl of all time.

Best of the Rest:

Flair/DiBiase (more of a segment/storyline advancer than a match, but still some of the greatest 10 minutes you'll ever see in wrestling) ****
JYD/Butch Reed Ghetto Street Fight ****
Flair/Taylor ****
Dr. Death/Terry Gordy ***
Midnight Express/Rock n Roll Express (both matches) ***1/2
Duggan/Gordy ***1/2
One Man Gang/Big Bubba ***1/2



Chismo said:


> Has anyone watched that grandiose TAJIRI/Nishimura match I boldly pimped?



Yea dude, I watched it the day you posted that link, afterwards I started complaining about the fact that Tajiri isn't wrestling in front of thousands of people anymore because he looked as good as ever. The cool thing was, most of Tajiri's WWE stuff was that US Cruiserweight style, lots of strikes (especially those KICKS), crazy awesome counters, and mostly fluid transitions. This is the first match I've seen from Tajiri where he works predominantly on the mat, and I absolutely loved it. Loved the count out spot, loved Tajiri's selling, and loved the finish. Great, great match. ****1/4


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I hate everything about that Austin/Kane match. What good is taping up an injury when you don't sell it? Why is Steve Austin acting like Kota Ibushi?


What injury, a busted forehead from the night before? It's not that big of an advantage, tbf. Keep in mind that Kane didn't have a meaningful control segment in the first 2/3 of the match, Austin was constantly cutting him off. It wasn't until the finishing period when Kane established some leverage, mostly outside of the ring, where you can punish your opponent 10x more brutally, why the fuck would he bother with a forehead? Sure, it would've been a nice storytelling piece and callback, but no biggie in my book. You gotta take few things in account: fucking ELECTRIC atmosphere, frantic pacing, insanely high adrenaline and Taker's presence, so no wonder wrestlers would forget to use some potential advantages. This is kayfabe talk, of course.

As I said, I find the match to be terrific.




The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Yea dude, I watched it the day you posted that link, afterwards I started complaining about the fact that Tajiri isn't wrestling in front of thousands of people anymore because he looked as good as ever. The cool thing was, most of Tajiri's WWE stuff was that US Cruiserweight style, lots of strikes (especially those KICKS), crazy awesome counters, and mostly fluid transitions. This is the first match I've seen from Tajiri where he works predominantly on the mat, and I absolutely loved it. Loved the count out spot, loved Tajiri's selling, and loved the finish. Great, great match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Double post sorry


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Chismo said:


> What injury, a busted forehead from the night before? It's not that big of an advantage, tbf. Keep in mind that Kane didn't have a meaningful control segment in the first 2/3 of the match, Austin was constantly cutting him off. It wasn't until the finishing period when Kane established some leverage, mostly outside of the ring, where you can punish your opponent 10x more brutally, why the fuck would he bother with a forehead? Sure, it would've been a nice storytelling piece and callback, but no biggie in my book. You gotta take few things in account: fucking ELECTRIC atmosphere, frantic pacing, insanely high adrenaline and Taker's presence, so no wonder wrestlers would forget to use some potential advantages. This is kayfabe talk, of course.
> 
> As I said, I find the match to be terrific.


I'm talking more about the right arm that Austin magically forgot was hurt. He didn't bother adjusting his offense accordingly, nor did the arm really come in play. What's even more frustrating is that Austin can be as good a seller as anyone, but so often during the AE (especially here), he doesn't bother. Kane also had an awfully boring control segment that killed the hot crowd. I just don't like their chemistry to be honest. The Austin/Kane/Taker feud that ran through a good portion of 98 was not that good. Like I would take the current Cena/Wyatt feud over it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> *The Rhodes Brothers Vs The Real Americans (18/03/2014 WWE)* - It's rather dichotomous that, on their flagship show, WWE has Goldust being wasted with Fandango yet here, on Main Event, he's given time in a hell of an opener. It's great to see how polished both teams are, too. Where you'd often see a rest hold used to elongate a match or give both men a respite, here it's a quick, no-nonsense move that gets Rhodes over huge as the FIP. Much of that praise has to lie on the time they were given, though, as the short period keeps the match both frenetic and allows for each man to ensure that every move has an end-game reasoning. Shaping from Goldust/Cesaro to a Cody FIP, to a RhodeBros hope spot and down to an elongated Goldust FIP in a mere ten minutes is as crazy as it sounds. The final five is even nuttier.
> 
> Both teams also seemed to employ new moves into their arsenal here, and it would be great to see them being used more on the bigger shows. The Rhodes Bros double dives have always been a great hope spot, yet the Cesaro Swing into a catapulted slam by Swagger is damn impressive. It's equally impressive how both teams gel, and how great both Swagger and Cody have become in their roles. Both were left in the shadows of their partners at their own team's creation, yet now have found their niche and are welcomed additions to their matches at this point. Stupendously good match.


You're a good man Premium Rah. Knowing the talent it shouldn't have escaped me to see a match WWE has kind of ran into the ground a bit too much once their program began in October have basically their best match to date vs one another. _(save for opinion if the sprint for the tag championship the SD before Survivor Series was more favorable to some)_

Kind of wild how Swagger returns, royally demolishes his final chance to be in the "main event scene" w/a police bust, appears to be nothing more than possible a jobber following, gets paired w/Cesaro sort of on a whim & now both have meshed so definitively w/one another, that Swagger is back in the game; about as good as ever. Again, not another "surprise", but rather more of a kudos for both his talent coming through like he normally can allow & WWE for giving him a chance to still produce on a high level. If there has to be a ceiling on his career, then so be it. Don' put the ceiling on what he can give us in-between the ropes. And they haven't. Joy.



The Hitman said:


> Well, thought id upload it then.
> 
> *Chris Jericho vs Mike Enos - WCW Nitro 23.09.1996*
> 
> x1jt8fd


FUN!



funnyfaces1 said:


> I hate everything about that Austin/Kane match. What good is taping up an injury when you don't sell it? Why is Steve Austin acting like Kota Ibushi?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So Taker/Brock _may_ be a 'Casket match'? :argh: It would i suppose protect Taker from multiple finishers/pinfalls but.....


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lets not discuss this potential farce. :$


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Lets not discuss this potential farce. :$


 yeah, it annoys me just thinking about it. 

Trying to compile a small list of Kobashi's best matches to watch.


----------



## hag (Aug 9, 2013)

Watched Wrestlemania XIX, Backlash 2003, and Judgement Day 2004 on my day off yesterday.

I forgot how good Wrestlemania XIX is. Especially Brock/Angle and Hogan/McMahon. 

Eddie/JBL is awesome too. That dude is bleeding so much.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Will that include the match vs Samoa Joe? b/c it 100% should. :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hag said:


> Watched Wrestlemania XIX, Backlash 2003, and Judgement Day 2004 on my day off yesterday.
> 
> I forgot how good Wrestlemania XIX is. Especially Brock/Angle and Hogan/McMahon.
> 
> Eddie/JBL is awesome too. That dude is bleeding so much.


I like the Jericho/Michaels match best out of all the WM 19 matches, but really, that event is perfect, every match was atleast VERY GOOD and there were 4 GREAT ones:

Jericho/michaels: ****1/2
Austin/Rocky: ****1/2
Brock/Angle: **** (their SS and IronMan matches are roughly 20x better though)
Hogan/Vince: **** (my favorite Vince match)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Will that include the match vs Samoa Joe? b/c it 100% should. :mark:


Yeah, i have these so far:

Kobashi vs Misawa - AJPW Triple Crown Championship match 10/25/95
vs. Mitsuharu Misawa @ NOAH (1/3/2003)
Kenta Kobashi vs Stan Hansen: AJPW 8/15/1993
vs. Samoa Joe in ROH on 10-1-05.
Kobashi and Misawa vs Kawada and Taue 6/9/95
w/ Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas , AJPW 25.05.1992
Vs. Jun Akiyama – 10/07/04
vs Steve Williams - 9/3/93
Kobashi vs Misawa 1/20/97 - Triple Crown
vs Stan Hansen - 7/29/93

Need to include a couple more multi-man matches too.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm talking more about the right arm that Austin magically forgot was hurt. He didn't bother adjusting his offense accordingly, nor did the arm really come in play. What's even more frustrating is that Austin can be as good a seller as anyone, but so often during the AE (especially here), he doesn't bother. Kane also had an awfully boring control segment that killed the hot crowd. I just don't like their chemistry to be honest. The Austin/Kane/Taker feud that ran through a good portion of 98 was not that good. Like I would take the current Cena/Wyatt feud over it.


I don't even remember the right arm being in equation, tbf. Are you implying that was the focus from the night before. I haven't seen their KOTR match in more than a decade.




The Hitman said:


> Trying to compile a small list of Kobashi's best matches to watch.


Tamon Honda, NOAH 2003. 'Nuff said.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Joe match isn't that good. HUGELY DISAPPOINTED when I watched it.

Vince/Hogan WM XIX sucks. Rest of the event is :mark: though.

I might finish my 03 reviews today. VENGEANCE :mark:. Undertaker/Cena, Show/Angle/Lesnar... uhhh... honestly don't remember the rest of the card OHHHHHH EDDIE VS BENOIT. Yey.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Kobashi/Joe is how you do a dream match. Sure, it wasn't Kobashi from his prime (which ended in 2000), but even as Chopbashi he always did enough to electrify crowds. His bigger-than-life presence simply overruled his physical disadvantages. It helped that Joe sold like a motherfucker for him.

It was ROH's version of Rock/Hogan, which speaks volumes.


Angle/Lesnar WM 19 is barely good, tbf.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

This is what I wrote about it:

Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi (Joe vs. Kobashi; 10/1/05)

Just gone done watching this. Filename says it was WON MOTY. I disagree with that. Quite a bit, actually. Was disappointed with this one. Heard so many great things about it, and well, it didn't live up to expectations. Was impressive to watch, and a blast, but seriously, there wasn't much to this match other than chops and kicks. Like I said, its a blast to watch, but I wouldn't consider it great. I guess its probably up there as a Rock/Hogan "dream match" or something? Hot crowd and both guys doing pretty much what the crowd wanting them to do. Maybe if I was a little more invested in the match I might have enjoyed it more. Won't be voting for this at all.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Bunkhouse Stampede 1988

I think I actually have this burnt on a disc somewhere but the quality is absolute shit so I never watched it. 


_Television Championship Match_
*Nikita Koloff(c) vs. Bobby Eaton w/Jim Cornette*

When I didn’t know very much about older wrestling I had this horrible fear that they would just roll around the mat for 20 minutes while I would be bored out of my mind. After expanding my horizons I realized that I was being stupid. Thankfully I never watched this match when I was getting into the older stuff. This went to a 20 minute draw. I don’t think I’m exaggerating when I say that 8-10 of those 20 minutes consisted of Eaton having Koloff in a hammerlock. I mean don’t get me wrong it’s a great hold but it was just so long. They also totally screwed up the face/heel and the champion/challenger dynamic. Why is Koloff making a comeback and almost winning the match as time expires when he’s the champion and retains if there is a draw? 

Eaton took a nice bump into the ring post and when he bounded into the camera man he sold it like he hit his head on the camera which was great. Koloff also sold his arm pretty well. The match was also worked smartly because Eaton had a clear strategy that he stuck to the entire time and in theory it would mesh well with Koloff who would just go for the big moves. It’s just that are so many different ways to work an arm and he just did the same hold over and over. I also didn’t like the idea that Eaton’s plan was to get Koloff to submit when anyone with a brain would know that won’t happen. Take the arm out and beat a guy with one arm, that makes sense. Making Koloff tap out doesn’t. So frustrating because the framework of the match was great but I wanted to scream, “STOP DOING THE FUCKING HAMMERLOCK” almost the entire time. Tough to rate because it’s worked smartly but the entertainment value is almost nonexistent. 
****


_Western States Championship Match_
*Barry Windham(c) vs. Larry Zbyszko w/Baby Doll*

This was a lot better than I was expecting. Barry came in with his leg wrapped up and while it took Larry a while to get anything going he eventually did target the leg and Windham sold it well. Unlike the previous match there was leg work that involved more than just the same hold. Also Windham got to make his comeback with more than 30 seconds left in the match so that was another plus as you could really feel the the momentum shifting and it meant something here because there was still a lot of time left in the match. 

Windham’s selling wasn’t perfect and I won’t say that Zbyszko is this amazing heel that works a perfect control segment (there were was one head scratching moment where after working the leg for so long he put Windham in a headlock) but everything was done well enough. The match was unspectacular but was worked smartly, had solid pacing, and wasn’t boring most of the time. 
*****


_NWA Championship Match:_
*Ric Flair(c) vs. Hawk*

This was pretty great I thought. It reminds me a lot of the matches that Flair had with Sting and Luger. He made Hawk look amazing, had an entertaining match, and sneaked away with the title. The beginning was a ton of fun as Flair was getting his ass kicked and nothing he did worked. His chops appeared to just annoy Hawk and even when Flair used the guard rail as a weapon it still had little to no effect on Hawk. Hawk showed no signs of being in any danger until Flair hit him with a low blow that the ref couldn’t see. Once that happened Flair was able to establish some control of the match but he still looked to be in a lot of trouble when Hawk was making a big comeback until he hurt his leg when coming off the top rope. Hawk’s selling of this was amazing until the end of the match when he abandoned selling but for most of the match he did a really good job with his selling and it even made sense when it was abandoned. 

The ending of the match, while frustrating, is just classic Flair and there were a few times when you actually started to wonder if you were going to see something special (and this is me knowing that there’s no way Hawk wins the title). It looked like the finish was going to come when the ref was down and Flair hit him the head with the chair and I thought that was the finish. The kickout was pretty great and at that point you realized that Flair was truly fucked. Of course he always finds a way to escape with the title but they really made it seem like Flair was so close to losing the title. I loved the match. Flair being Flair and he’s perfect in matches against guys like Hawk. Probably overrating the shit out of this. 
******


_Bunkhouse Finals_
*Dusty Rhodes vs. Tully Blanchard vs. Ivan Koloff vs. The Warlord vs. Arn Anderson vs. Lex Luger vs. The Barbarian vs. Animal* 

This was horrible. It’s like 20 minutes long and it’s just everyone punching each other in the ring for almost the entire time. It seemed like there going to be a clear Face v. Heel dynamic until the numbers thinned down as the faces (Luger, Dusty, and Animal) were outnumbered and you had Tully and Arn together as well as 3 guys being managed by Paul Jones. Even that was fucked up as at one point The Barbarian was saving Arn Anderson from elimination when right across the ring Tully Blanchard was trying to eliminated Ivan Koloff. The match was boring and was just 8 guys aimlessly fighting in a cage. At least Tully and Arn worked together the whole time and Jones’ guys did the same so it was completely stupid.

Did I mention the rules? It’s a battle royal inside a cage. Aside from the fact that you would have to be one of the dumbest people alive to get thrown over the top of a cage it’s a really boring stipulation because when 2 guys are fighting on the ground away from the door there is a 0% chance that anything important is going to happen. Terrible gimmick match that was executed terribly. 
*½** 


There were only 4 matches on the card and 1 was great and another was good. I mean you can't complain that much and the Flair/Hawk match was a joy to watch.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Hogan/Vince is Top 10 WM match, btw.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sure, if you forget about 99.9% of the other WM matches that happened .


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

No, I've only seen 12 WM matches. #11 and #12 are HBK/Takers.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I hope your #1 match is Bret/HBK Iron Man.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Just watched Austin/HHH vs Jericho/Benoit from Raw in 2001 for the first time since I originally saw it in 2001.

Holy crap. I never realized how great this match was. From the very beginning, the action is very fast paced, and yet the flow of the match is just incredible. Everything falls into place so damn perfectly, you don't ever feel like they're stalling. Everything has a purpose. 

And then Triple H gets injured and doesn't let that stop him from completing his duties in the match. That's incredible. Hell he was taking the walls of Jericho even with a terrible injury in his leg (I can't for the life of me remember what the damn injury was but I know it was something bad). That might have been the best 12 minute match I've ever seen to recent memory.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TheGMofGods said:


> Just watched Austin/HHH vs Jericho/Benoit from Raw in 2001 for the first time since I originally saw it in 2001.
> 
> Holy crap. I never realized how great this match was. From the very beginning, the action is very fast paced, and yet the flow of the match is just incredible. Everything falls into place so damn perfectly, you don't ever feel like they're stalling. Everything has a purpose.
> 
> And then Triple H gets injured and doesn't let that stop him from completing his duties in the match. That's incredible. Hell he was taking the walls of Jericho even with a terrible injury in his leg (I can't for the life of me remember what the damn injury was but I know it was something bad). That might have been the best 12 minute match I've ever seen to recent memory.



He tore his quad completely off the bone. That means all the tendons in your knee, acl, mcl, pcl are gone too. What a fucking warrior, I'm not a fan of Hunter but I will never take anything away from him in the toughness category.


Cal to remind us all that he thinks that match is overrated in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1....... 


P.s. Cal if you join Hayley in not being a big fan of Eddie/Benoit Vengeance, I will be sorely, sorely dissapointed in you sir. It better get atleast ****.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Vince slowly sticking his head above the apron is worth watching that match.

Updated Mania card looks...interesting. I think the lower card matches can at least be fun. It'd be nice to have Mania where all the matches have some kind of story but this can do.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brye said:


> Vince slowly sticking his head above the apron is worth watching that match.
> 
> Updated Mania card looks...interesting. I think the lower card matches can at least be fun. It'd be nice to have Mania where all the matches have some kind of story but this can do.



Exactly. Even if you don't like the rest of the Vince/Hogan match (I happen to love it, but whatever) it's still worth watching because that moment with Vince when he discovered the lead pipe is one of my favorite moments in wrestling history. His face is just priceless. Best moment VKM has ever had in the ring.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

TheGMofGods said:


> Just watched Austin/HHH vs Jericho/Benoit from Raw in 2001 for the first time since I originally saw it in 2001.
> 
> Holy crap. I never realized how great this match was. From the very beginning, the action is very fast paced, and yet the flow of the match is just incredible. Everything falls into place so damn perfectly, you don't ever feel like they're stalling. Everything has a purpose.
> 
> And then Triple H gets injured and doesn't let that stop him from completing his duties in the match. That's incredible. Hell he was taking the walls of Jericho even with a terrible injury in his leg (I can't for the life of me remember what the damn injury was but I know it was something bad). That might have been the best 12 minute match I've ever seen to recent memory.


Now that is a match that is so overrated and I dont understand why people love :hbk


I never saw this RA/rhodes bros. Main event, should change that


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> He tore his quad completely off the bone. That means all the tendons in your knee, acl, mcl, pcl are gone too. What a fucking warrior, I'm not a fan of Hunter but I will never take anything away from him in the toughness category.
> 
> 
> Cal to remind us all that he thinks that match is overrated in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.......
> ...




I'll be surprised if I don't like the Eddie/Benoit match. I gave it ****1/2 on last watch and that wasn't too long ago.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I'll be surprised if I don't like the Eddie/Benoit match. I gave it ****1/2 on last watch and that wasn't too long ago.



I actually had it as high as ****3/4 but on the 2 more recent viewings it held steady at ****1/2. If they had done a little more during that 5 or so minutes in the middle where things slow down, maybe work some good submissions or something, they really could have had a potential 5 star match. I just love how you can see the "Latino Heat" character finally become what we would all know and love as the match progresses. 

Fuck. I gotta watch that PPV again just talking about it gets me all excited. The Triple Threat Main Event on the same show is so bad ass, way better than I ever expected.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ok, here we go:

Cal sucks _(on this page)_

Joe vs Kobashi is brilliant and everything it says it is.

Brock vs Angle from WM 19 is mediocre at best & Hogan vs Vince is great.

Hogan vs Rock from WM 18 is fabulous.

Eddie vs Benoit from Vengeance 2003 sucks.

That's all the things iirc. Don't want to scroll up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cody sucks _(most of the time)_

Joe Vs Kobashi is decent.

Brock/Angle is really good from WM 19 & Hogan/Vince is a pile of steaming poo.

Hogan vs Rock from WM 18 is really good.

Eddie vs Benoit from vengeance 2003 is awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal plz.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Now that is a match that is so overrated and I dont understand why people love :hbk


From what I saw, there was simply no possible way you could make that match any better than it already was. Seriously, holy crap this match just climbed the mountain in my all time favorite matches category. Hell it might be better than Angle/Benoit vs Mysterio/Edge but I have to go back and watch that one again. Haven't seen that match in a few years but I loved that match. 

Interestingly enough I just looked the match up in the ratings website for Meltzer, Meltzer actually gave the match a ****3/4 star rating. So they were 1/4th of a star away from getting a perfect five star rating. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels really highly of this match, even though I normally find myself more often than not heavily disagreeing with a lot of Meltzer's ratings (oddly enough I'm not against any of the five star ratings he's given for WWE matches. I felt all five matches deserved the ratings they got).


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Don't even try to reason with Skins about why he dislikes Jericho :lol

SKINS are you happy that I changed my sig? TAJIRI>ALL :mark:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for answering, CJack and Zep! BluRays will be the death of me, though. 

Where are you guys getting this info about the casket match? All I saw was people suddenly speculating about in the RAW threads, simply due to the casket being there. I just took that as the usual stuff. 

Now people are taking Undertaker delivering his "final message" as that? Is there some reason to read into that? Genuinely asking, because I haven't been around for any of Taker's recent builds.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

(Y)

I havent seen it in a while, and from what it was decent, was a GOAT this or that

And if you scroll back a few pages, I actually praise a Jericho match :lelbron


Edit: They used the casket on raw, and supposedly DOt.com put an article of top casket matches, I think its just speculation at this point


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tajiri?





 








 








 

:hayley1


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

That Psicosis match :moyes1


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No kidding. Totally unreal, practically a godly contest right there.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

TAJIRI :mark: about to watch all the matches that were posted that I haven't seen, also :mark: for including the taker match, great little gem there 

Just rewatched the power trip tag, GREAT, ****3/4 at least


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

SMITTY, have you watched that obscure TAJIRI match I posted yet?




Brye said:


> Vince slowly sticking his head above the apron is worth watching that match.





The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Exactly. Even if you don't like the rest of the Vince/Hogan match (I happen to love it, but whatever) it's still worth watching because that moment with Vince when he discovered the lead pipe is one of my favorite moments in wrestling history. His face is just priceless. Best moment VKM has ever had in the ring.


:bahgawd

Unreal moment. I'm not even remotely kidding when I say it's Top 10 WM match, btw. The match had PERFECT storytelling where they summed up 20 years of their relationship, it's one those matches that wakes up a kind inside of you, even if you're the grumpiest fuck of them all. Beautiful match. Is it cartoonish and campy? Yes, it is, but so fucking what? *****3/4*

Same goes for Rock/Hogan.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vince was killing it in 2003. Bout vs Hogan is only a common example of the fact. Love it. Nobody was safe. Not even plump Spanish announcer Hugo.

btw, it's tremendous to watch that match w/the Spanish commentary just for that moment.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Chismo definitely getting to that once I watch the Psychosis/Tajiri match that was just posted. I have found that mat wrestling is an acquired taste and I am just starting to appreciate it a bit more. 

But I will for sure post my thoughts on it when I watch it


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> No kidding. Totally unreal, practically a godly contest right there.


What's the date for that, 8/19/00? only one i have.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Well that (Tajiri/Psicosis) was mind blowing (Y)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> SMITTY, have you watched that obscure TAJIRI match I posted yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Rock/Hogan is one of those matches where if I see someone shitting on it or claiming they don't like it, I immediately decide I have nothing in common with that person and have no reason to discuss pro graps with them. That match is what wrestling is supposed to be about IMO. I was too young to appreciate Hogan/Warrior for how momentous it was at the time, but I was plenty old enough to realize when I watched Rock/Hogan live that night, what I was witnessing was an all time great moment in wrestling history.

Hogan just has this innate quality, I can't even find words to describe it. Everything Hogan did in WWE from 2002-2005 just made me mark like a little bitch. John Cena is twice the professional wrestler that Hogan is, but he just doesn't have that Hogan quality, and that's why the Rock/Cena matches never felt even remotely as big as that Hogan/Rocky WM 18 match. 

Gonna watch Tajiri/Psicosis in a moment. Mostly because I think it's gonna be awesome, but also so I can just go "Eddie/Benoit Vengeance > Tajiri/Psicosis. Booya Cody, suck it"


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> What's the date for that, 8/19/00? only one i have.


Taped 8/20/00. Aired 8/27/00.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Gonna watch Tajiri/Psicosis in a moment. Mostly because I think it's gonna be awesome, but also so I can just go "Eddie/Benoit Vengeance > Tajiri/Psicosis. Booya Cody, suck it"


Balderdash!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Hitman said:


> Yeah, i have these so far:
> 
> Kobashi vs Misawa - AJPW Triple Crown Championship match 10/25/95
> vs. Mitsuharu Misawa @ NOAH (1/3/2003)
> ...


Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi v. Jumbo/Taue Fuchi - 10/19/90, 4/20/91, 5/22/92

those are the best multi-mans.....ever, really.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> The Joe match isn't that good. HUGELY DISAPPOINTED when I watched it.


NO.



Chismo said:


> Angle/Lesnar WM 19 is barely good, tbf.


YES.


Tajiri/Psicosis might be the best ECW match and that includes 06-10.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So thanks to SMITTY'S Sig, my five year old bro found his third favorite wrestler. The green mist was all that the kid needed to be convinced of Tajiri's greatness. For the record, the other two are Michael Fole and :bryan3. Bryan specifically has become a hero to him the same way Hogan was to the imbeciles that grew up in the 80s. Now tell me how good that foundation of wrestlers to love at the age of five is.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Was the Ziggler/Del Rio/Sheamus three way on Main Event any good? PWTorch called it a heck of a match but I don't trust them.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just watched the Tajiri match that Chismo pimped, really enjoyed it, not a huge fan of mat work but this was fun, would recommend to all 

Funnyfaces your little bro has GREAT taste, glad I could help out 

Should probably get going on another 2000 ppv, SVS maybe, heard the show sucks but whatever


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Taped 8/20/00. Aired 8/27/00.


Thanks. Seems to be the wrong date somewhere. Even the video says 08/19. 



Yeah1993 said:


> Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi v. Jumbo/Taue Fuchi - 10/19/90, 4/20/91, 5/22/92
> 
> those are the best multi-mans.....ever, really.


Thanks very much, currently got these on my 'Kobashi to watch' list:

Kobashi vs Misawa - AJPW Triple Crown Championship match 10/25/95
vs. Mitsuharu Misawa @ NOAH (1/3/2003)
Kenta Kobashi vs Stan Hansen: AJPW 8/15/1993
vs. Samoa Joe in ROH on 10-1-05.
Kobashi and Misawa vs Kawada and Taue 6/9/95
w/ Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas , AJPW 25.05.1992
Vs. Jun Akiyama – 10/07/04
vs Steve Williams - 9/3/93
Kobashi vs Misawa 1/20/97 - Triple Crown
vs Stan Hansen - 7/29/93
Tamon Honda, NOAH 2003.
Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi (04/20/91)
06/12/98 Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (Triple Crown)
01/19/95 Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (60:00 Min Draw)
Mitsuhara Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi. (From October 31, 1998
Mitsuhara Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi. (From June 11, 1999


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Has anyone watched the Bruce Prichard shoot? I'm downloading atm and its nearly 7 hours long :mark:


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

I've seen it and I believe Cal has seen it as well.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thoughts on it? the DL should be done within the hour


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye,I watched it last week. 6 hours 18 minutes I believe it is. WELL worth the watch if you are into shoot interviews.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

SMITTY said:


> Thoughts on it? the DL should be done within the hour


I found it interesting because it was the perspective of someone who worked for WWE office for two decades.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> John Cena is twice the professional wrestler that Hogan is, but he just doesn't have that Hogan quality


NO! 

You see, you instantly contradicted yourself after the comma. That "quality" Hogan has makes him twice the professional wrestler that Cena is.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I go from strongly liking Hogan to disliking him but I like his WWF stuff and some of his return stuff. Honestly didn't care for him in WCW though. And in TNA they just didn't give anyone a reason to care after a month or so, it felt. 

Hulk still brings an awesome aura with him though.

In other news, the WWE Countdown on biggest blunders is great.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> NO!
> 
> You see, you instantly contradicted yourself after the comma. That "quality" Hogan has makes him twice the professional wrestler that Cena is.



I guess I shouldn't have used the term "professional wrestler" and instead gone simply with "worker". My point remains the same though, no matter how much better in the ring Cena is, Hogan just has this innate something that no other wrestler in the history of our sport has. I will say that for the most part, when Hogan turned heel,he lost that something and only gained it back when he returned to the WWE in 2002.

Just finished Tajiri/Psicosis from ECW. Dammit all, I can't even go "Eddie/Benoit Vengeance > Tajiri/Psicosis, Booya Cody" like I wanted to. That match was too awesome. I don't have one single gripe with it. My previous favorite ECW match was RVD/Jerry Lynn, but this just blew it clear out of the water. It's not even close really, this is by far the best match from the original ECW I've ever seen. THAT is how you start a match out, these are two guys with very little name recognition outside of the hardcore wrestling fan base, and they some how managed to make it seem like we were about to watch Tyson and Holyfield to at it. The finish though, I just can't. How fucking sick was that? Tajiri looked like he freaking caved Psicosis face the fuck in. Whoa. 

I've heard people say Tajiri was the best wrestler in the world in 2000, I guess I'm starting to see why. My god. Best Tajiri match I've ever seen, even better than the one Chismo just posted yesterday which I thought was as good as it gets.


Cody wins. Again. Dammit all.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Rock/Hogan is one of those matches where if I see someone shitting on it or claiming they don't like it, I immediately decide I have nothing in common with that person and have no reason to discuss pro graps with them. That match is what wrestling is supposed to be about IMO. I was too young to appreciate Hogan/Warrior for how momentous it was at the time, but I was plenty old enough to realize when I watched Rock/Hogan live that night, what I was witnessing was an all time great moment in wrestling history.
> 
> Hogan just has this innate quality, I can't even find words to describe it. Everything Hogan did in WWE from 2002-2005 just made me mark like a little bitch. John Cena is twice the professional wrestler that Hogan is, but he just doesn't have that Hogan quality, and that's why the Rock/Cena matches never felt even remotely as big as that Hogan/Rocky WM 18 match.
> 
> Gonna watch Tajiri/Psicosis in a moment. Mostly because I think it's gonna be awesome, but also so I can just go "Eddie/Benoit Vengeance > Tajiri/Psicosis. Booya Cody, suck it"


I couldn't agree with you more on Hogan/Rock. If you don't like the match I'm not sure how you even like wrestling and regardless of how much you claim to know about it or like there is no way that actually "get it." Hogan "Hulking Up" was just the greatest thing ever. He goes into the match as "Hollywood Hulk Hogan" and by the time it ends he's just Hulk Hogan. It's the ultimate homecoming for him after everything that happened with him. He left, almost destroyed the WWF and made his return as an invader. That night the WWF fans embraced him as Hogan again and he fed off them and it was like everything was forgotten. 

There are a few moments that I will just search for on youtube to watch like 10 times in a tow and that moment where he Hulks Up is probably on the top of my list. 

I'm just jealous I never saw it happen live as I sort of stopped watching wrestling for a while after WCW went under (I was 10 and it was my favorite show and I don't think we got Spike TV for free so I couldn't watch).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TaylorFitz said:


> I couldn't agree with you more on Hogan/Rock. If you don't like the match I'm not sure how you even like wrestling and regardless of how much you claim to know about it or like there is no way that actually "get it." Hogan "Hulking Up" was just the greatest thing ever. He goes into the match as "Hollywood Hulk Hogan" and by the time it ends he's just Hulk Hogan. It's the ultimate homecoming for him after everything that happened with him. He left, almost destroyed the WWF and made his return as an invader. That night the WWF fans embraced him as Hogan again and he fed off them and it was like everything was forgotten.
> 
> There are a few moments that I will just search for on youtube to watch like 10 times in a tow and that moment where he Hulks Up is probably on the top of my list.
> 
> I'm just jealous I never saw it happen live as I sort of stopped watching wrestling for a while after WCW went under (I was 10 and it was my favorite show and I don't think we got Spike TV for free so I couldn't watch).



(Y)

For me, there are a few moments that stand out in WWE that never cease to give me goosebumps/mark like a little bitch:

1. Hogan "Hulking up" at WM 18
2. Eddie shaking off JBL's punches, drenched in blood, and doing his little strut before firing back with some massive right hands at JD 2004
3. Vince discovering the lead pipe under the ring and doing that creepy rise at WM 19
4. Angle catching Austin in the ankle lock on the barricade at SS 2001 and letting out that giant "WOOO" while blood pours down his face
5. Arn Anderson doing the run in and hitting Taker with a Spinebuster at WM 18
6. The stand off between Hogan and Andre at the start of their match at WM 3
7. Austin refuses to tap to the sharpshooter while blood gushes out of his forehead at WM 13
8. Foley walking to the back after his HiaC match with Hunter at NWO 2000, with JR calling it on commentary
9. Foley getting his "moment" after the match with Edge at WM 22, thunderous "FOLEY FOLEY FOLEY" chants as he walks to the back
10. Every time Taker makes his entrance at WrestleMania
11. "GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY! GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY! THAT KILLED HIM! WITH GOD AS MY WITNESS, HE IS BROKEN IN HALF!"


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Well........... I've never seen Rock/Hogan soooo


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Rock/Hogan is indeed one of the coolest matches I've ever seen. Probably one that I could watch over and over. 

I turned on the Raw after WM 29 on the Network, and I'm pretty sure the crowd was edited big time. Remember them being super loud, but Cena's basically standing silently in an empty ring. The chants are already super quiet, even though the camera clearly shows pretty much everyone chanting. This is pretty disappointing.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cjack you completely forgot Foley winning the title on RAW via Austin Interference


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The pop Austin received during that match was AMAZING.

Also, I watched The Shield vs. The Real Americans from Raw. Really good stuff. I'm loving FACE SHIELD.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

SKINS said:


> Well........... I've never seen Rock/Hogan soooo


You better get on that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Just finished Tajiri/Psicosis from ECW. Dammit all, I can't even go "Eddie/Benoit Vengeance > Tajiri/Psicosis, Booya Cody" like I wanted to. That match was too awesome. I don't have one single gripe with it. My previous favorite ECW match was RVD/Jerry Lynn, but this just blew it clear out of the water. It's not even close really, this is by far the best match from the original ECW I've ever seen. THAT is how you start a match out, these are two guys with very little name recognition outside of the hardcore wrestling fan base, and they some how managed to make it seem like we were about to watch Tyson and Holyfield to at it. The finish though, I just can't. How fucking sick was that? Tajiri looked like he freaking caved Psicosis face the fuck in. Whoa.
> 
> I've heard people say Tajiri was the best wrestler in the world in 2000, I guess I'm starting to see why. My god. Best Tajiri match I've ever seen, even better than the one Chismo just posted yesterday which I thought was as good as it gets.
> 
> ...












Success always comes my way.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Well........... I've never seen Rock/Hogan soooo


I hope you joking, that match and atmosphere still gives me goosebumps.

I'm gonna watch that match later tonight now & you should as well (Y)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I enjoyed Rock/Hogan I but it's not something that I really re-watch. I think the first time I saw it is the peak it's going to get for me and I don't want to ruin that.

The NWO '03 one, though. Watched that for the first time last year and couldn't stand it.

Also, I always mark the fuck out for the Arn spinebuster during Taker/Flair. Love that match.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I personally love watching that match.

I know it isn't the best "wrestling" match but I sure do enjoy the hell out of it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I can understand that. There's definitely been matches for me that have been good for reasons other than the wrestling.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

But yeah NWO 03 I never wanna and will never see again.

That match fpalm


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Brye said:


> I enjoyed Rock/Hogan I but it's not something that I really re-watch. I think the first time I saw it is the peak it's going to get for me and I don't want to ruin that.
> 
> The NWO '03 one, though. Watched that for the first time last year and couldn't stand it.
> 
> Also, I always mark the fuck out for the Arn spinebuster during Taker/Flair. Love that match.


Man, looking back on that PPV, that was a shitty PPV. I mean, the final three matches were...

Steiner/HHH, Austin/Bischoff, and Rock/Hogan. Man. Luckily that PPV also had an awesome handicap match, a great Hardy/Jericho match and a good Hardy/Kidman match.

Edit: God damn it I did not think that one through. Jeff faced Jericho and Matt faced Kidman.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for answering, 'skins!


The Hogan/Rock lovefest is exactly why I can't understand why everyone is up in arms here about the possibility of Sting/Taker. Other than the people who just never liked Sting, which in that case, I get it.

First of all, I don't even think it will be a shitty match. They literally have only one match to do in a year...it's pretty hard to fuck that up, especially when you can practice and choreograph it beforehand.

The atmosphere will be INSANE. Plus, it looks like it wouldn't even happen until WM31, so Sting has ample time to get himself into decent shape.

Don't think it matters anyway, since I believe that the atmosphere & booking will = gold.

Think of all of the vignettes and build up beforehand, especially highlighting and showcasing Sting's career and importance, and those two legends NEVER crossing paths.

I think that the tone of this thread will totally change, once that stuff actually starts happening, and we see how cool it is.


And btw, the way you all were talking about Hogan/Rock is exactly how I feel about Warrior/Hogan. Watched it the other day and it still lives up and gives me the same feeling.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Will the atmosphere really be that great though? Hogan was still semi relevant in 2002, but other than the very few TNA fans (in comparison to the WWE) and the smarks, will anyone really care? Its been 13 years since Sting has been on TV besides TNA, think how many fans would have started wqtching since then and have very little idea who he is or why this match with Taker is such a "dream" ma tch.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I guess I shouldn't have used the term "professional wrestler" and instead gone simply with "worker". My point remains the same though, *no matter how much better in the ring Cena is*, Hogan just has this innate something that no other wrestler in the history of our sport has.


That's my point, though, Cena is not better in the ring than Hogan... at all. Unless to you mechanics = wrestling.




William Murderface said:


> I personally love watching that match.
> 
> *I know it isn't the best "wrestling" match* but I sure do enjoy the hell out of it.


Uh, I hate when people go this way. "Wrestling" match? What is "wrestling" anyway? Wrestling is everything that happens inside the squared circle, ffs. Taker throwing Mankind off the top of the Cell is wrestling. Guerrero bleeding like a pig from chairshots is wrestling. Flair doing his flops is wrestling. Hulk hulking up is wrestling. Taker's Hells Gate is wrestling. Cesaro and Regal exchanging holds and sick kicks is wrestling. Rey Mysterio doing 'Ranas is wrestling. Hogan and Rock staring at each other while trying to gain psychological advantage by milking the crowd is wrestling. 

I don't know why people feel this godawful need to dispart the most basic terms.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Been a looooong time since I watched Rock/Hogan, but I've rewatched Hogan/Warrior quite a few times and love it everytime (Y)


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Am considering getting the Best of Raw and Smackdown 2013 blu ray. Has some good matches on it, but overall the set had soooooo much potential but they really missed out. Why couldn't they include Bryan-Rollins, Bryan-Cesaro, Jericho-Punk, The Smackdown 6-man, The Raw post-EC Shield match, Taker Ambrose, Shield/Wyatts vs everyone 12 man tag from Raw etc etc etc. Should really have been a 4 disc dvd/ 3 disc bluray like the 2011 one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh boy. Undertaker vs Cena didn't happen after people randomly assumed it would, so now folks have latched onto Undertaker vs Sting scenario for one whole year. 

Why?


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Flux said:


> Will the atmosphere really be that great though? Hogan was still semi relevant in 2002, but other than the very few TNA fans (in comparison to the WWE) and the smarks, will anyone really care? Its been 13 years since Sting has been on TV besides TNA, think how many fans would have started wqtching since then and have very little idea who he is or why this match with Taker is such a "dream" ma tch.


I won't disagree with you on this. But the fans that go to Wrestlemania are certainly going to know who he is. According to WWE I think it's between 2/3 and 3/4 of people that go to Wrestlemania aren't from the host city so if they have a match at Mania it's going to be in an arena filled with huge wrestling fans that have spent thousands to be there for the weekend. Granted the venue is outside, but the atmosphere should still be pretty great. The atmosphere will certainly be insane if he appears on Raw the night after Wrestlemania...


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Taker/Sting will be a must-see match. I don't give a shit about Taker/Lesnar at this point.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

At this point I'd seriously consider Chavo Jr Vs Undertaker over Sting Vs Undertaker...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Speechless. I am w/o speech.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

3 matches into Vengeance 03 and it's already in the top 5 PPV's of the year . If the next match gets 2 points it's top 4 .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well Sting isn't even confirmed yet lol. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And let's hope he never is. He can fuck off to Jeff Jarrett's new promotion.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I hope Sting submits Undertaker with his crappy looking Sharpshooter.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

You know I'm a mark for Sting, but is ml much rather they give us Cena/Taker at this point. Surely that is all that is left. I'm not into this let's give him Wyatt thing yet tbh.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> That's my point, though, Cena is not better in the ring than Hogan... at all. Unless to you mechanics = wrestling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that statement. People can define what wrestling is anyway they choose. I have different lists for who is the greatest wrestler ever and who is the greatest worker ever. Does that mean I'm wrong because I choose to look at things a certain way? No. There is no universal definition of what a worker is or what wrestling is. You can choose to consider them the same thing and you're right, I'm choosing to separate them, and I'm right as well.

For instance, if I'm talking about who I think is the best professional wrestler, I lump ALL the aspects of the business together. Promos, character, ability to connect with the crowd, and their skill level at the art of working in the ring. For best workers, I just narrow it down strictly to what they are able to do inside the squared circle and their ability at having a great match. Steve Austin is a better professional wrestler than Chris Benoit, but I consider Benoit to be a slightly better worker than Austin. To you I'm sure that's splitting hairs and that's fine, but for me that's just how my thought process works.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

No desire to see Taker/Sting at all and Taker/Lesnar at this point has been quite the disappointment. Hedging my bets on Taker/Cena in the vain hope that they do it but if they do that's the last truly _big _match they have left. Maybe they're afraid to acknowledge that or something? I don't know but yes, Taker/Cena or GTFO in the nicest way possible .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm dying to see Cena/Taker. I think that would be a bigger challenge to the streak than Trips was.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just about to watch Cena Vs Undertaker :mark:. From Vengeance 03 of course . But still. :mark:

And absolutely Cena would be a bigger challenge than HHH. Cena would arguably be the BIGGEST challenge to the Streak.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Of course Cena would be a bigger challenge than HHH. He's THE biggest challenge purely for the fact that everybody thinks they're crazy enough to put him over lol. The atmosphere would be crazy. Cena locking in the STF after hitting a couple AA's during the climax of the match? You better believe people will be losing their shit if that ever happens :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> 3 matches into Vengeance 03 and it's already in the top 5 PPV's of the year . If the next match gets 2 points it's top 4 .


And it's all b/c of the APA invitational.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

*WWE Championship~ Cena (c) v. HHH v. Edge; Triple Threat; Backlash*

Just watched the Backlash 2006 Triple Threat for the WWE title between HHH, Edge, and John Cena. Nice match, loved how smart Edge's character was to let HHH and Cena tear each other apart. Then I got a little fun "beat the ever living shit out of (enter other guy in the match)" sequence with Edge. Then HHH goes and attacks Cena from behind, trying to steal a win but Edge creeps out of it with a STO (if I remember correctly)on to the middle turnbuckle. After a couple of back and forth sequences and sleepers, Cena comes in and hints for a DOUBLE FU, but Edge rolls off the top and HITS A SPEAR! God, as much as it looks like shit, Edge always made that thing awesome with his timing. Before I start moaning and reminiscing, we get a obvious blade job by the Game before Edge catapults him into the steel post on the outside. The Game has a crimson mask! :mark: HHH has the face for bleeding, if that makes sense. It always looks perfect. A sick Edgecution on the table! :mark: Then we have Cena drop Edge into the STFU! HHH stops Edge from tapping in a nice spot. HHH later hits a chair shot on Edge that sends him over the barricade. HHH is put into the STFU, and he is covered in blood! He fades, and the ref must check for consciousness. One, Two, NO! :mark: So predictable, but my markiness for the Cerebral Assassin rules over everything.

There is a nice little reversal after reversal with Cena and HHH until Cena again gets a STFU, but Edge comes in on the top rope! Cena gets up for a FU, but HHH sneaks his head in between Cena's legs and hits an electric chair drop! :mark: Lita comes in with a steel chair, but HHH HITS HER WITH A SPINEBUSTER! He picks up the chair but declines to use it, goes to the otside and PULLS OUT THE SLEDGE HAMMER!:mark: He goes back inside and is hit with a Spear! Edge decides he will harness the power of Greyskull until he is picked up by Cena for a FU but the Game low blows Cena. Edge goes out of the ring as Cena is set up for a Pedigree. As HHH hooks the arms, Cena reverses into a jackknife pin ala Shawn Michaels at SummerSlam 2002 and picks up the win, no selling his testicles getting smashed three seconds ago fpalm . Afterwards Cena celebrates (still no selling fpalm), but HHH hits everyone with the Sledgehammer and the show ends with him crotch chopping and leaving the last man standing.

I liked this match, not a technical masterpiece, but it was fun. Cena no selling a low blow completely soured the ending for me, but not enough to ruin the match. Edge played a good heel, and HHH played with crowd quite well. Cena's hinting of two massive spots was really well done in my opinion.

_*** 3/4 _


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Just about to watch Cena Vs Undertaker :mark:. From Vengeance 03 of course . But still. :mark:
> 
> And absolutely Cena would be a bigger challenge than HHH. Cena would arguably be the BIGGEST challenge to the Streak.



Cena/Taker from Vengeance and Cena/Angle from No Mercy are two of my all time favorite Cena matches....is that weird? I know he's gotten loads better since then and had matches that receive much higher praise, but those two are exactly what I like about wrestling. Both tell a similar story of the brash, arrogant rookie going up against a seasoned vet and getting taught a lesson in respect. Cena was infinitely more entertaining back then.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> *Cena/Taker from Vengeance and Cena/Angle from No Mercy are two of my all time favorite Cena matches*....is that weird? I know he's gotten loads better since then and had matches that receive much higher praise, but those two are exactly what I like about wrestling. Both tell a similar story of the brash, arrogant rookie going up against a seasoned vet and getting taught a lesson in respect. Cena was infinitely more entertaining back then.


Same here for me.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

If anybody is looking for anything to watch, or has ten minutes to kill...

*Rey Mysterio vs. Jamie Noble - Velocity, 1st May, 2004*
_This is a sleeper **** hit if I've ever seen one, holy shit. Utterly fantastic. The match emphasises the clear differences in both men's styles, from Mysterio's energetic, high flying, sprint based offense to Nobles ground and pound, physical, rugged style and both mesh so well (OBVIOUSLY DUH). Also, there's such a simple babyface/heel dynamic that works perfectly alongside the aforementioned styles clash. We all know Mysterio is the GOAT in terms of playing the plucky babyface and this is another shining example of him being exactly that. Mix that with fantastic limb work and brutal (yet simple) cut off spots from Noble, flashy bursts of offense from Rey and slick counters from both, and you've got a phenomenal match worthy of any man, woman or child's time. _

WATCH NOW. EVERYBODY.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJZQ3Wec9hA


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Cena/Taker from Vengeance and Cena/Angle from No Mercy are two of my all time favorite Cena matches....is that weird? I know he's gotten loads better since then and had matches that receive much higher praise, but those two are exactly what I like about wrestling. Both tell a similar story of the brash, arrogant rookie going up against a seasoned vet and getting taught a lesson in respect. Cena was infinitely more entertaining back then.


Both matches are awesome and would likely make my top 10 Cena matches list tbh. Can only think of 7 matches I'd DEFINITELY have over those 2 atm, though I am probably forgetting a couple.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Flux said:


> If anybody is looking for anything to watch, or has ten minutes to kill...
> 
> *Rey Mysterio vs. Jamie Noble - Velocity 5th May, 2004*
> _This is a sleeper **** hit if I've ever seen one, holy shit. Utterly fantastic. The match emphasises the clear differences in both men's styles, from Mysterio's energetic, high flying, sprint based offense to Nobles ground and pound, physical, rugged style and both mesh so well (OBVIOUSLY DUH). Also, there's such a simple babyface/heel dynamic that works perfectly alongside the aforementioned styles clash. We all know Mysterio is the GOAT in terms of playing the plucky babyface and this is another shining example of him being exactly that. Mix that with fantastic limb work and brutal (yet simple) cut off spots from Noble, flashy bursts of offense from Rey and slick counters from both, and you've got a phenomenal match worthy of any man, woman or child's time. _
> ...


That match is awesome. Came in at =#264 on the top 100 WWF/E matches list. Sure, sounds like a low number, but it beat out some absolute corkers. Show/Taker LMS, Benoit/Orton SS, Undertaker/Finlay, one of the Rockers/Brainbusters matches etc.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Flux, no ****, bt I love you my brother. The Cruiser-weight division :mark:

I love how Noble looked strong throughout the entire match whenever he had Mysterio grounded plus all the ways he worked the left arm. Jaime was one of my favorites growing up (along with Helms) so I may biased in this, but in terms of the WWE, Noble was one of the top technical wrestlers in the company at the time. Mysterio :mark: was awesome, and while he isn't bad in the ring now, his old self was fucking awesome. The finishing sequence was awesome (NOBLE'S SELL OF THE 619!) and the Droppin the Dime mark for the win was a nice throwback.

****** Why was this wasted on Velocity, when you could have this on Raw? The WWE pisses me off sometimes, and this is one of those times.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> That match is awesome. Came in at =*#264* on the top 100 WWF/E matches list. Sure, sounds like a low number, but it beat out some absolute corkers. Show/Taker LMS, Benoit/Orton SS, Undertaker/Finlay, one of the Rockers/Brainbusters matches etc.


26 or 24?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

264. Equal 264 with a bunch of others, actually. Didn't make the top 100, but it was voted for hence getting a spot on the full list.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

The fact Eddie Guerrero Vs Jimmy Jacobs from Smackdown in 05 was dead last dissapoints me greatly. Best squash ever.


God I was on form for that list. Complete and utter madcap form.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> 264. Equal 264 with a bunch of others, actually. Didn't make the top 100, but it was voted for hence getting a spot on the full list.


Oh okay, I have never seen the list. Seemed pretty high (24 or 26? That's overrated), so thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> Oh okay, I have never seen the list. Seemed pretty high (24 or 26? That's overrated), so thanks for the clarification.


The full list if you are interested. A bunch of us (some are members here) got together and spent a little over a year watching as much as possible and putting together our own lists, then each match got points based on list placement (+ something else, fuck knows, a drunk gave out the points :lmao) and we came up with this (was done in 2010 btw, hence some matches missing you might expect to see):



Spoiler: ELITE top 100 WWF/E matches list



=#305: Eddie Guerrero v Jimmy Jacobs - Smackdown!, 5/14/05 (1 point)

=#305: MNM v The Hardy Boys - Royal Rumble, 1/28/07 (1 point)

=#305: HHH v Chris Benoit - No Mercy, 10/22/00 (1 point)

=#305: Chris Benoit v Booker T - Armageddon, 12/18/05 (1 point)

=#305: The Rock v Shane McMahon (Cage Match) - RAW, 5/1/00 (1 point)

=#305: Trish Stratus v Lita - RAW, 12/6/04 (1 point)

=#305: Trish Stratus v Mickie James - Wrestlemania 22, 4/2/06 (1 point)

=#298: Chris Jericho & Christian v RVD & Jeff Hardy v Spike & Bubba Ray Dudley v Kane (TLC IV) - RAW, 10/7/02 (2 points)

=#298: Evan Bourne v Chris Jericho - Fatal Four Way, 6/20/10 (2 points)

=#298: Hulk Hogan v Randy Savage (Lumberjack Match) - MSG, 2/17/86 (2 points)

=#298: Shawn Michaels v Edge (Street Fight) - RAW, 1/22/07 (2 points)

=#294: HHH v Steve Austin (No Holds Barred) - No Mercy, 10/17/99 (3 points)

=#294: Rockers v Demolition - MSG, 10/24/88 (3 points)

=#294: Steve Austin v Savio Vega (Caribbean Strap Match) - In Your House 8: Beware of Dog, 5/28/96 (3 points)

=#291: Rey Mysterio v Christian - Smackdown!, 8/4/05 (4 points)

=#291: Jake Roberts v Randy Savage - Saturday Night's Main Event, 11/29/86 (4 points)

=#289: Undertaker v Yokozuna (Casket Match) - Royal Rumble, 1/22/94 (5 points)

=#289: Undertaker v Finlay - Smackdown!, 3/9/07 (5 points)

=#289: Rey Mysterio & Billy Kidman v Charlie Hass & Shelton Benjamin - Vengeance, 7/27/03 (5 points)

=#286: Kurt Angle v Chris Benoit - Smackdown!, 2/6/03 (6 points)

=#286: Ric Flair v Mick Foley (I Quit Match) - Summerslam, 8/20/06 (6 points)

=#286: The Hardy Boys & Lita v T&A & Trish Stratus - Fully Loaded, 7/23/00 (6 points)

=#286: Batista & Rey Mysterio v MNM - Smackdown!, 12/30/05 (6 points)

=#286: Undertaker v Kennedy - No Mercy, 10/8/06 (6 points)

=#281: Shawn Michaels v Batista (Stretcher Match) - One Night Stand, 6/1/08 (7 points)

=#281: Brock Lesnar v Rey Mysterio - Smackdown!, 12/11/03 (7 points)

=#281: Randy Orton v Chris Jericho - RAW, 7/5/04 (7 points)

=#278: Eddie Guerrero v Batista - No Mercy, 10/9/05 (8 points)

=#278: Chris Benoit v Randy Orton - Summerslam 8/15/04 (8 points)

=#278: Undertaker v Big Show (Last Man Standing Match) - Cyber Sunday, 10/26/08 (8 points)

=#275: Hulk Hogan v Andre The Giant - Wrestlemania 3, 3/29/87 (9 points)

=#275: Los Guerreros v Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle v Edge & Rey Mysterio - Survivor Series, 11/17/02 (9 points)

=#275: William Regal v Brian Kendrick - Smackdown!, 11/24/06 (9 points)

=#272: London & Kendrick v William Regal & Dave Taylor - Smackdown!, 12/8/06 (10 points)

=#272: Steve Austin, Cactus Jack & Chainsaw Charlie v HHH, New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega (Unsanctioned Street Fight) - In Your House: No Way Out of Texas, 2/15/98 (10 points)

=#272: Shawn Michaels v Undertaker (Casket Match) - Royal Rumble, 1/18/98 (10 points)

=#269: John Cena v HHH v Edge - Backlash, 4/30/06 (11 points)

=#269: Chris Benoit v Kurt Angle (Ultimate Submission Match) - Backlash, 4/29/01 (11 points)

=#269: Rockers v Brainbusters - Boston Garden, 1/13/89 (11 points)

=#269: Stan Hansen v Bruno Sammartino (Cage Match) - MSG, 8/7/76 (11 points)

=#269: Undertaker & Kane v MVP & Kennedy - Smackdown!, 11/3/06 (11 points)

=#264: CM Punk v Jeff Hardy (TLC Match) - Summerslam, 8/23/09 (12 points)

=#264: Rey Mysterio v Jamie Noble - Velocity, 5/1/04 (12 points)

=#262: Bob Backlund v Larry Zbyszko - Philly Spectrum, 10/11/80 (13 points)

=#262: Undertaker v Randy & Bob Orton (Casket Match) - 10/8/06 (13 points)

=#262: Finlay v Batista v King Booker - Smackdown!, 12/1/06 (13 points)

=#259: Mankind v HHH - In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede, 7/6/97 (14 points)

=#259: Eddie Guerrero v Rey Mysterio - Great American Bash, 7/24/05 (14 points)

=#257: Edge v Chris Benoit - Smackdown!, 6/8/07 (15 points)

=#257: John Cena v Carlito v Chris Masters v Kane v Kurt Angle v Shawn Michaels (Elimination Chamber) - New Year's Revolution, 1/8/06 (15 points)

-#257: Smackdown! Royal Rumble - Smackdown!, 1/29/04 (15 points)

=#257: Rockers v Rougeau Brothers - MSG, 7/25/88 (15 points)

=#253: HHH v John Cena - Night of Champions, 6/29/08 (16 points)

=#253: T&A v The Dudleys - Backlash, 4/30/00 (16 points)

=#251: Edge v Randy Orton RAW, 4/30/07 (17 points)

=#251: Tito Santana v Greg Valentine (Cage Match) - MSG, 7/6/85 (17 points)

=#251: Marty Jannetty v Doink The Clown - RAW, 6/21/93 (17 points)

=#251: Kurt Angle v Edge (Hair vs. Hair) - Judgment Day, 5/19/02 (17 points)

=#247: Eddie Guerrero v Kurt Angle (2/3 Falls) - Smackdown!, 9/2/04 (18 points)

=#247: Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri v Charlie Hass & Shelton Benjamin - Smackdown!, 5/22/03 (18 points)

=#247: Ric Flair v Mr. Perfect (Loser Leaves Town) - RAW, 1/18/93 (18 points)

=#244: Steve Austin & HHH v Undertaker & Kane - Backlash, 4/29/01 (19 points)

=#244: Eddie Guerrero v Chris Benoit - Vengeance, 7/27/03 (19 points)

=#242: Edge & Christian v The Hardy Boys v The Dudley Boys (Triangle Ladder Match) - Wrestlemania 16, 4/2/00 (20 points)

=#242: Chris Benoit v Randy Orton (No Holds Barred Match) - Smackdown!, 1/27/06 (20 points)

=#242: Undertaker v Kane - Wrestlemania 14, 3/29/98 (20 points)

#239: Undertaker v Randy Orton - Summerslam, 8/21/05 (21 points)

=#238: Steve Austin v Kurt Angle - RAW, 1/8/01 (22 points)

=#238: Kurt Angle v Rey Mysterio - Summerslam, 8/25/02 (22 points)

=#238: Shawn Michaels v Vader - Summerslam, 8/18/96 (22 points)

=#235: The Rock v Mankind - In Your House: Rock Bottom, 12/13/98 (23 points)

=#235: Big Show v Ric Flair - ECW, 7/10/06 (23 points)

=#233: Shawn Michaels v Jeff Hardy v HHH v Umaga v JBL v Chris Jericho (Elimination Chamber) - No Way Out, 2/17/08 (24 points)

=#233: Edge v Kurt Angle - Smackdown!, 10/3/02 (24 points)

=#231: Shawn Michaels v Randy Orton - Survivor Series, 11/18/07 (25 points)

=#231: Mankind v Undertaker - Survivor Series, 11/17/96 (25 points)

=#229: The Rock v Chris Jericho - Royal Rumble, 1/20/02 (26 points)

=#229: The Rock v Chris Benoit - Fully Loaded, 7/23/00 (26 points)

=#229: The Rock v Eddie Guerrero - RAW, 7/22/02 (26 points)

=#229: Eddie Guerrero v RVD (Ladder Match) - RAW, 5/27/02 (26 points)

=#225: Chris Jericho v John Morrison v MVP v CM Punk v Carlito v Shelton Benjamin v Mr. Kennedy (Money in the Bank Ladder Match) - Wrestlemania 24, 3/30/08 (27 points)

=#225: The Rock v Mankind (Empty Arena Match) - Heat, 1/31/99 (27 points)

=#225: Rey Mysterio v Mark Henry - Smackdown!, 1/20/06 (27 points)

=#225: William Regal v Christian - ECW, 11/10/09 (27 points)

#221: Rey Mysterio v Chris Benoit - Smackdown!, 10/3/02 (29 points)

=#220: Bob Backlund v Buddy Rose - MSG, 8/30/82 (30 points)

=#220: Hart Foundation v British Bulldogs - MSG, 12/23/85 (30 points)

=#220: John Cena v Umaga - New Year's Revolution, 1/7/07 (30 points)

=#220: Ricky Steamboat v Bob Orton Jr. - Landover, MD, 7/20/85 (30 points)

=#216: Christian v Shelton Benjamin - Survivor Series, 11/14/04 (31 points)

=#216: Mr. Perfect v Doink The Clown - RAW, 5/17/93 (31 points)

=#216: Finlay v Rey Mysterio - Smackdown!, 3/24/06 (31 points)

=#216: Ricky Steamboat & Tito Santana v Greg Valentine & Brutus Beefcake - Maple Leaf Gardens, 4/21/85 (31 points)

=#212: Eddie Guerrero v RVD - Backlash, 4/21/02 (32 points)

=#212: Tito Santana v Greg Valentine - MSG, 11/20/84 (32 points)

=#212: Undertaker v Kane (Inferno Match) - Unforgiven, 4/26/98 (32 points)

=#209: Eddie Guerrero v Rey Mysterio - Smackdown!, 3/18/04 (33 points)

=#208: Undertaker v Vince McMahon (Buried Alive Match) - Survivor Series, 11/16/03 (34 points)

=#208: John Cena v Edge (TLC Match) - Unforgiven, 9/17/06 (34 points)

=#206: Steve Austin v The Rock (No Holds Barred) - Backlash, 4/25/99 (35 points)

=#206: Mick Foley v Terry Funk (Falls Count Anywhere) - RAW, 5/4/98 (35 points)

=#204: John Cena v Batista - Wrestlemania 26, 3/28/10 (38 points)

=#204: Shawn Michaels v Mankind - RAW, 8/11/97 (38 points)

=#204: Chris Benoit v Kurt Angle - Wrestlemania 17, 4/1/01 (38 points)

201: Bret Hart v Shawn Michaels - Survivor Series, 11/25/92 (39 points)

=#200: The Rock & Mankind v Undertaker & Big Show (Buried Alive Match) - Smackdown!, 9/7/99 (41 points)

=#200: Dick Murdoch & Adrian Adonis v Jack & Jerry Brisco - MSG, 12/28/84 (41 points)

=#200: Mr. Perfect v Tito Santana - Saturday Night's Main Event, 7/28/90 (41 points)

=#200: CM Punk v Jeff Hardy (Cage Match) - Smackdown!, 8/28/09 (41 points)

=#200: Chris Benoit v Kurt Angle - Unforgiven, 9/22/02 (41 points)

#195: Ricky Steamboat v Bret Hart - Boston Garden, 3/8/86 (42 points)

=#194: Randy Orton v Edge - Vengeance, 7/11/04 (43 points)

=#194: Bret Hart v Owen Hart Action Zone, 9/29/94 (43 points)

#192: Rey Mysterio v Chavo Guerrero - Great American Bash, 6/27/04 (44 points)

=#191: Undertaker v Randy Orton - Wrestlemania, 4/3/05 (45 points)

=#191: Rey Mysterio v JBL - Judgment Day, 5/21/06 (45 points)

#189: Team WWF v Team Alliance - InVasion, 7/26/01 (46 points)

=#188: Edge v Kurt Angle v Eddie Guerrero v Chris Benoit - Smackdown!, 12/5/02 (47 points)

=#188: Undertaker v Jeff Hardy (Ladder Match) - RAW, 7/1/02 (47 points)

=#186: Bob Backlund v Ken Patera - MSG, 1/21/80 (48 point)

=#186: Masato Tanaka v Mike Awesome - One Night Stand, 6/12/05 (48 points)

=#186: Rey Mysterio v Chris Jericho (No Holds Barred) - Extreme Rules, 6/9/09 (48 points)

=#183: John Cena v Randy Orton - Summerslam, 8/26/07 (50 points)

=#183: Kurt Angle v Brock Lesnar - Wrestlemania, 3/30/03 (50 points)

=#181: Shawn Michaels v Razor Ramon - RAW, 8/1/94 (51 points)

=#181: Steve Austin v Undertaker (First Blood Match) - Fully Loaded, 7/25/99 (51 points)

=#179: Randy Orton v HHH (Last Man Standing Match) - No Mercy, 10/7/07 (52 points)

=#179: Shawn Michaels v Hulk Hogan - Summerslam, 8/21/05 (52 points)

=#177: Undertaker v Edge - Judgment Day, 5/18/08 (53 points)

=#177: Big Show v Floyd Mayweather - Wrestlemania 24, 3/30/08 (53 points)

#175: Ricky Steamboat v Jake Roberts - MSG, 6/27/86 (54 points)

=#174: Randy Orton v Chris Benoit - RAW, 8/16/04 (55 points)

=#174: HHH v Ric Flair (Last Man Standing Match) - Survivor Series, 11/27/05 (55 points)

#172: Rockers v Powers of Pain - MSG, 1/15/90 (57 points)

=#171: Mr. Perfect v Doink The Clown - RAW, 5/24/93 (60 points)

=#171: HHH v John Cena - Wrestlemania 22, 4/2/06 (60 points)

#169: Steve Austin v Kurt Angle - Unforgiven, 9/23/01 (64 points)

#168: Shawn Michaels v John Cena v Edge v Randy Orton - Backlash, 4/29/07 (65 points)

#167: Barry Windham v Dick Murdoch - Philly Spectrum, 2/16/85 (66 points)

#166: Mankind v HHH (Cage Match) - Summerslam, 8/3/97 (68 points)

#165: HHH v Jeff Hardy - No Mercy, 10/5/08 (69 points)

=#164: The Rock v Mankind (I Quit Match) - Royal Rumble, 1/24/99 (70 points)

=#164: Royal Rumble Match - Royal Rumble, 1/25/09 (70 points)

=#164: Dick Murdoch v Afa - MSG, 10/22/84 (70 points)

=#164: John Cena v Kurt Angle - No Mercy, 10/19/03 (70 points)

=#160: Rey Mysterio v John Morrison - Smackdown!, 9/4/09 (71 points)

=#160: Kane v Big Show v Kofi Kingston v Drew McIntyre v Matt Hardy v Christian v Cody Rhodes v Dolph Ziggler (Money in the Bank Ladder Match) - Money In The Bank, 7/18/10 (71 points)

#158: Undertaker v Kane - Smackdown!, 4/4/08 (72 points)

#157: Owen Hart v Mankind - RAW, 1/6/97 (74 points)

#156: Eddie Guerrero v Kurt Angle - Wrestlemania, 3/14/04 (76 points)

=#155: Eddie Guerrero v Kurt Angle - Smackdown!, 4/14/05 (78 points)

=#155: Shawn Michaels v Davey Boy Smith - King of the Ring, 6/23/96 (78 points)

=#155: Tito Santana v Greg Valentine - MSG, 1/21/85 (78 points)

=#152: Shawn Michaels v Chris Benoit v HHH - Backlash, 4/18/04 (80 points)

=#152: Chris Benoit v Kane - Bad Blood, 6/13/04 (80 points)

=#150: Randy Orton, Batista & Ric Flair v Chris Benoit, Edge & Chris Jericho (Elimination Match) - RAW, 6/16/04 (81 points)

=#150: Brock Lesnar v Chris Benoit - Smackdown!, 12/4/03 (81 points)

=#148: John Cena v Edge (Last Man Standing Match) - Backlash, 4/26/09 (82 points)

=#148: Great Sasuke v TAKA Michinoku - In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede, 7/6/97 (82 points)

=#148: Rikishi & Too Cool v Edge & Christian & Kurt Angle - Judgment Day, 5/21/00 (82 points)

#145: Ric Flair v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 18, 3/17/02 (88 points)

#144: Cactus Jack v HHH (Falls Count Anywhere) - RAW, 9/22/97 (90 points)

=#143: HHH v Chris Benoit (Ironman Match) - RAW, 7/26/04 (92 points)

=#143: Mick Foley & Edge v Tommy Dreamer & Terry Funk - One Night Stand, 6/11/06 (92 points)

=#141: Eddie Guerrero v Rey Mysterio (Cage Match) - Smackdown!, 9/9/05 (94 points)

=#141: Finlay v Rey Mysterio - Smackdown!, 11/9/07 (94 points)

=#139: Kurt Angle v Shane McMahon (Street Fight) - King of the Ring, 6/24/01 (95 points)

=#139: Team WWF v Team Alliance - Survivor Series, 11/18/01 (95 points)

=#137: Undertaker v Batista - Cyber Sunday, 10/28/07 (96 points)

=#137: Chris Benoit v Finlay - Smackdown!, 11/26/06 (96 points)

=#137: John Cena v Edge v Rey Mysterio v Kane v Mike Knox v Chris Jericho (Elimination Chamber) - No Way Out, 2/15/09 (96 points)

#134: Bret Hart v Diesel - King of the Ring, 6/19/94 (99 points)

#133: Royal Rumble Match - Royal Rumble, 1/25/04 (101 points)

=#132: Steve Austin v Vince McMahon (Cage Match) - St. Valentine's Day Massacre, 2/14/99 (102 points)

=#132: Bret Hart v Undertaker - Summerslam, 8/3/97) (102 points)

#130: The Rock v Mankind - RAW, 1/4/99 (104 points)

=#129: Team Austin v Team Bischoff - Survivor Series, 11/16/03 (105 points)

=#129: Randy Orton v John Cena (I Quit Match) - Breaking Point, 9/13/09 (105 points)

=#127: Vince McMahon v Shane McMahon (Street Fight) - Wrestlemania 17, 4/1/01 (106 points)

=#127: Hardy Boys v London & Kendrick v Dave Taylor & William Regal v MNM (Ladder Match) - Armageddon, 12/17/06 (106 points)

#125: John Cena v Randy Orton - No Way Out, 2/17/08 (108 points)

#124: Rey Mysterio v Randy Orton - Smackdown!, 4/7/06 (109 points)

=#123: Shawn Michaels v Shelton Benjamin - RAW, 5/2/05 (110 points)

=#123: Undertaker v Batista (Last Man Standing Match) - Backlash, 4/29/07 (110 points)

#121: Shawn Michaels & John Cena v The Undertaker & Batista - No Way Out, 2/18/07 (111 points)

=#120: Bob Backlund v Don Muraco (Texas Death Match) - MSG, 9/21/81 (116 points)

=#120: HHH v Cactus Jack (Hell in a Cell) - No Way Out, 2/27/00 (116 points)

#118: Sgt. Slaughter v Pat Patterson (Alley Fight) - MSG, 5/4/81 (117 points)

#117: Rockers v Brainbusters - Boston Garden, 3/18/89) (118 points)

#116: Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle v Edge & Rey Mysterio (2/3 Falls Match) - Smackdown!, 11/7/02 (119 points)

=#115: Hardy Boys v Dudley Boys v Edge & Christian (TLC II) - Wrestlemania 17, 4/1/01 (121 points)

=#115: Edge & Christian v The Hardy Boys (Ladder Match) - No Mercy, 10/17/99 (121 points)

#113: Ric Flair v Edge (TLC Match) - RAW, 1/16/06 (126 points; one top ten vote)

=#112: Shawn Michaels v HHH v Chris Jericho v RVD v Kane v Booker T (Elimination Chamber) - Survivor Series, 11/17/02 (127 points)

=#112: Chris Benoit v Randy Orton - Smackdown!, 1/13/06 (127 points; one top twenty vote)

#110: Shawn Michaels v Steve Austin - King of the Ring, 6/9/97 (128 points)

#109: Bret Hart v Diesel - Survivor Series, 11/19/95 (131 points)

#108: Eddie Guerrero v Big Show - Smackdown!, 4/15/04 (132 points)

#107: Bob Backlund v Don Muraco - Philly Spectrum, 10/17/81 (134 points; one top 20 vote)

#106: Eddie Guerrero v JBL (Cage Match) - Smackdown!, 7/15/04 (138 points)

#105: Undertaker v Mankind (Buried Alive Match) - In Your house 11: Buried Alive, 10/20/96 (140 points)

#104: Shawn Michaels & Diesel v Razor Ramon & 123 Kid - Action Zone, 10/30/94 (141 points)

#103: Randy Savage v Ricky Steamboat Maple Leaf Gardens, 2/15/87 (142 points)

#102: Eddie Guerrero v Edge (No DQ Match) - Smackdown!, 9/26/02 (147 points)

#101: Randy Savage v Tito Santana (No Holds Barred) - MSG, 4/21/86 (148 points)

#100: Finlay v Chris Benoit - Smackdown!, 5/5/06 (154 points)

#99: Shawn Michaels v Chris Benoit - RAW, 5/3/04 (159 points)

#98: Eddie Guerrero v Rey Mysterio - Judgment Day, 5/22/05 (167 points)

#97: Edge v Matt Hardy (Cage Match) - Unforgiven, 9/18/05 (170 points)

#96: Rockers v Orient Express - Royal Rumble, 1/19/91 (174 points)

#95: Royal Rumble Match - Royal Rumble, 1/19/92 (178 points)

#94: Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, Mick Foley & Shelton Benjamin v HHH, Ric Flair, Randy Orton & Batista - RAW, 4/12/04 (179 points)

#93: Shawn Michaels & Steve Austin v Owen Hart & Davey Boy Smith - RAW, 5/26/97 (180 points; one top 20 vote)

#92: Edge v Mick Foley (Hardcore Match) - Wrestlemania 22, 4/2/06 (187 points)

#91: Edge v Undertaker (Hell in a Cell) - Summerslam, 8/17/08 (190 points; one top 20 vote)

#90: Shelton Benjamin v Chris Benoit v Chris Jericho v Kane v Christian v Edge (Money in the Bank Ladder Match) - Wrestlemania 21, 4/3/05 (194 points)

#89: Edge & Christian v The Hardy Boys v The Dudley Boys (TLC Match) - Summerslam, 8/27/00 (196 points; one top 10 vote)

#88: Shawn Michaels v Kurt Angle - Vengeance, 6/26/05 (197 points)

#87: Ric Flair v Randy Savage - Wrestlemania 8, 4/5/92 (200 points)

#86: Bret Hart v 123 Kid - RAW, 7/11/94 (201 points; one top 20 vote)

#85: The Rock v Brock Lesnar - Summerslam, 8/25/02 (204 points; one top 20 vote

#84: Undertaker v Mankind - In Your House 15: Revenge of the Taker, 4/20/97 (205 points; one top 20 vote)

#83: Shawn Michaels v Chris Jericho (Ladder Match) - No Mercy, 10/5/08 (208 points)

#82: HHH v Batista v Chris Benoit v Chris Jericho v Edge v Randy Orton (Elimination Chamber) - New Year's Revolution, 1/9/05 (212 points)

#81: Bret Hart v Roddy Piper - Wrestlemania 8, 4/5/92 (211 points)

#80: Rockers v Brainbusters - MSG, 1/23/89 (214 points; one top 20 vote)

#79: Christian v Jack Swagger - ECW, 2/24/09 (218 points; one top 20 vote)

#78: Chris Benoit v William Regal - Velocity, 7/16/05 (221 points)

#77: Bob Backlund v Ken Patera (Texas Death Match) - MSG, 5/19/80 (232 points; one top 10 vote)

#76: Undertaker v Batista - Wrestlemania, 4/1/07 (235 points)

#75: Shawn Michaels v Bret Hart (Ironman Match) - Wrestlemania 12, 3/31/96 (240 points; one top 5 vote)

#74: John Cena v Shawn Michaels - RAW, 4/23/07 (243 points)

#73: John Cena v John Bradshaw Layfield (I Quit Match) - Judgment Day, 5/22/05 (247 points)

#72: The Rock v HHH - Backlash, 4/30/00 (248 points)

#71: Shawn Michaels v HHH (Street Fight) - Summerslam, 8/25/02 (251 points; one top 5 vote)

=#70: Bret Hart v Diesel - Royal Rumble, 1/22/95 (252 points; one top 20 vote)

=#70: Shawn Michaels v HHH - RAW, 12/29/03 (252 points)

#68: Royal Rumble Match - Royal Rumble, 1/21/01 (256 points; one top 10 vote)

#67: Edge v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 24, 3/30/08 (262 points)

#66: Bob Backlund v Adrian Adonis - MSG, 1/18/82 (263 points; one top 10 vote)

=#65: The Rock v Hollywood Hogan - Wrestleania 18, 3/18/02 (267 points; one top 10 vote)

=#65: Rey Mysterio v Chris Jericho - The Bash, 6/28/09 (267 points)

#63: Bret Hart v Davey Boy Smith - Summerslam, 8/29/92 (273 points; one top 20 vote)

#62: Kurt Angle v Brock Lesnar - Summerslam, 8/24/03 (274 points)

=#61: Shawn Michaels v Diesel (No Holds Barred Match) - In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies, 4/28/96 (278 points; one top 20 vote)

=#61: Steve Austin v HHH (3 Stages of Hell) - No Way Out, 2/25/01 (278 points; one top 5 vote; one top 10 vote)

#59: Bret Hart v Undertaker - One Night Only, 9/20/97 (283 points)

#58: The Rock v Chris Jericho - No Mercy, 10/21/01 (288 points)

#57: Undertaker v Kurt Angle - Smackdown!, 9/4/03 (292 points; one #3 vote)

=#56: Undertaker v Mankind (Hell in a Cell) - King of the Ring, 6/28/98 (295 points)

=#56: Shawn Michaels v Jeff Jarrett - In Your House 2: Lumberjacks, 7/23/95 (295 points)

#54: Bret Hart v Owen Hart (Cage Match) - Summerslam, 8/29/94 (298 points; one top 20 vote)

#53: The Rock v Steve Austin - Wrestlemania 19, 3/30/03 (309 points)

#52: The Rock v Undertaker v Kurt Angle - Vengeance, 7/21/02 (312 points)

#51: Cactus Jack, The Rock, Rikishi, Brian Christopher & Scott Taylor v HHH, X-Pac, Chris Benoit, Perry Saturn & Dean Malenko - RAW, 2/7/00 (318 points; one top 20 vote)

#50: HHH v Batista (Hell in a Cell) - Vengeance, 6/26/05 (322 points)

#49: Hardy Boys v Dudley Boys v Edge & Christian v Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit (TLC III) - Smackdown!, 5/23/01 (326 points)

#48: Ric Flair v HHH (Cage Match) - Taboo Tuesday, 11/1/05 (334 points; one top 10 vote)

#47: Bret Hart v Mr. Perfect - Summerslam, 8/26/91 (351 points)

#46: Bob Backlund v Sgt. Slaughter (Cage Match) - Philly Spectrum, 3/21/81 (363 points; two top 10 votes)

#45: Kurt Angle v Brock Lesnar (Ironman Match) - Smackdown!, 9/18/03 (364 points; one top 20 vote)

#44: Bob Backlund v Sgt. Slaughter - MSG, 1/10/81 (367 points; one top 5 vote; two top 20 votes)

#43: Randy Orton v Mick Foley (Hardcore Match) - Backlash, 4/18/04 (370 points)

#42: The Rock v HHH (Ironman Match) - Judgment Day, 5/21/00 (374 points)

#41: Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Brian Pillman, Jim Neidhart & Davey Boy Smith v Steve Austin, Goldust, Ken Shamrock, Hawk & Animal - In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede, 7/6/97 (376 points; one top 20 vote)

=#40: John Cena v Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 23, 4/1/07 (388 points; one top 20 vote)

=#40: Chris Benoit v William Regal - No Mercy, 10/8/06 (388 points; one top 20 vote)

#38: Shawn Michaels v Ric Flair - Wrestlemania 24, 3/30/08 (415 points)

#37: Shawn Michaels v Chris Jericho - Wrestlemania 19, 3/30/03 (420 points; two top 20 votes)

#36: Shawn Michaels v Razor Ramon (Ladder Match) - Summerslam, 8/27/95 (431 points; one top 20 vote)

#35: Bret Hart v Davey Boy Smith - In Your House 5: Season's Beatings, 12/17/95 (435 points)

#34: Bret Hart v Vader v Steve Austin v Undertaker - In Your House 13: Final Four 2/16/97 (440 points; one top 5 vote)

#33: Chris Benoit v Chris Jericho (Ladder Match) 1/21/01 (474 points; one top 20 vote)

#32: Steve Austin v Dude Love - Over The Edge, 5/31/98 (480 points; one top 20 vote)

#31: HHH v Chris Jericho (Last Man Standing Match) - Fully Loaded, 7/23/00 (487 points; one top 20 vote)

#30: Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle v Edge & Rey Mysterio - No Mercy, 10/20/02 (495 points; one top 20 vote)

#29: Sgt. Slaughter v Iron Sheik (Boot Camp Match) - MSG, 6/16/84 (512 points; one #3 vote; two top 20 vote)

#28: Undertaker v Brock Lesnar (Hell in a Cell) - No Mercy, 10/20/02 (525 points; one top 10 vote; one top 20 vote)

#27: Chris Benoit v Kurt Angle - Royal Rumble, 1/19/03 (530 points; two top 10 votes)

#26: Shawn Michaels v Kurt Angle - Wrestlemania 21, 4/3/05 (534 points; three top 20 votes)

#25: John Cena v Umaga (Last Man Standing Match) - Royal Rumble, 1/28/07 (542 points; four top 20 votes)

#24: Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit v Steve Austin & HHH - RAW, 5/21/01 (547 points; one #1 vote; two top 20 votes)

#23: Owen Hart v Davey Boy Smith - RAW, 3/1/97 (590 points; one top 20 vote)

=#22: Ultimate Warrior v Randy Savage (Retirement Match) - Wrestlemania 7, 3/24/91 (594 points; two top 20 votes)

=#22: Bob Backlund v Greg Valentine - MSG, 2/19/79 (594 points; one #3 vote; one top 10 vote; two top 20 votes)

#20: Eddie Guerrero v Brock Lesnar - No Way Out, 2/15/04 (613 points; three top 20 votes)

#19: Shawn Michaels v Undertaker (Streak v Career Match) - Wrestlemania 26, 3/28/10 (621 points; two #2 votes; one top 20 vote)

#18: Eddie Guerrero v JBL - Judgment Day, 5/16/04 (635 points; one top 10 vote; one top 20 vote)

#17: The Undertaker v Kurt Angle - No Way Out, 2/19/06 (645 points; three top 20 votes)

#16: Steve Austin v Chris Benoit - Smackdown!, 5/31/01 (658 points; two top 20 votes)

#15: Shawn Michaels v Chris Benoit v HHH - Wrestlemania 20, 3/14/04 (665 points; one #3 vote; two top 10 votes; one top 20 vote)

#14: Finlay v Chris Benoit - Judgment Day, 5/21/06 (672 points; one top 10 vote; three top 20 votes)

#13: Randy Savage v Ricky Steamboat - Wrestlemania 3, 3/29/87 (690 points; two top 5 votes)

#12: Eddie Guerrero v Rey Mysterio - Smackdown!, 6/23/05 (692 points; one top 10 vote; four top 20 votes)

#11: Shawn Michaels v Razor Ramon (Ladder Match) - Wrestlemania, 3/20/94 (804 points; one top 5 vote; three top 10 votes)

#10: Bret Hart v Mr. Perfect - King of the Ring, 6/13/93 (886 points; one top 5 vote; three top 10 votes; one top 20 vote)

#9: Bret Hart v Steve Austin - Survivor Series, 11/17/96 (895 points; one top 5 vote; three top 10 votes; two top 20 votes)

#8: Shawn Michaels v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 25, 4/5/09 (920 points; one #2 vote; one #3 vote; one top 10 vote; two top 20 votes)

#7: HHH v Cactus Jack (Street Fight) - Royal Rumble, 1/23/00 (924 points; one #1 vote; one top 5 vote; one top 10 vote; four top 20 votes)

=#6: Bret Hart v Owen Hart - Wrestlemania X, 3/20/94 (1014 points; one #2 vote; four top 5 votes; one top 10 vote; two top 20 votes)

=#6: Steve Austin v Kurt Angle - Summerslam, 8/19/01 (1014 points; one # 1 vote; five top 10 votes; two top 20 votes)

#4: Steve Austin v The Rock - Wrestlemania 17, 4/1/01 (1030 points; one #1 vote; one #2 vote; two top 10 votes; three top 20 votes)

#3: Shawn Michaels v Mankind - In Your House 10: Mind Games, 9/22/96 (1096 points; one #2 vote; two #3 votes; one top 5 vote; two top 10 votes; two top 20 votes)

#2: Shawn Michaels v Undertaker (Hell in a Cell) - In Your House 18: Bad Blood, 10/5/97 (1172 points; four #1 votes; one #2 vote; one top 5 vote; one top 10 vote; one top 20 vote)

#1: Bret Hart v Steve Austin (Submission Match) - Wrestlemania 13, 3/23/97 (1198 points; one #1 vote; two # 2 votes; two #3 votes; one top 5 vote; two top 10 votes; one top 20 vote)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Both matches are awesome and would likely make my top 10 Cena matches list tbh. Can only think of 7 matches I'd DEFINITELY have over those 2 atm, though I am probably forgetting a couple.



1. Cena/Punk MitB *****
2. Cena/Brock ER ****3/4
3. Cena/Umaga LMS ****1/2
4. Cena/JBL I Quit ****1/4
5. Cena/Punk Raw ****1/4
6. Cena/Punk NoC ****1/4
7. Cena/Bryan SS ****1/4
8. Cena/Angle NM ****1/4
9. Cena/Batista LMS ****1/4
10. Cena/Taker Vengeance ****

Next up would be Latino Heat Brawl with Eddie, Summerslam with Jericho, Raw with Rey Rey, WM with HBK, Raw with HBK, NWO with Orton.

Out of all the matches I listed, ER with Lesnar is my favorite to watch, followed by JBL I Quit, Angle NM, and Taker Vengeance.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Tbf, Eddie putting the mask on Jacobs only to then brainbuster him on the chair is brilliant.

Makes me sad imagining what those two could have done together given time. Jacobs is awesome. Eddie is awesome. It would have been awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So I watched a bunch of recent Randy Orton matches to try and gauge an opinion of the guy, and here are the subsequent ratings for those matches:

Randy Orton Vs Christian (Raw 8/26/13?) ~ **** 1/4*

Randy Orton Vs John Cena (TLC 2013) ~ *** 1/2*

Randy Orton Vs Daniel Bryan (RAW 3/14/14?) ~ **** 1/2*

Randy Orton Vs Cesaro (SD 2/11/14) ~ **** 3/4*

Damn it, it seems as if Orton has improved significantly from his boring 2012 days in pointless feuds. I guess he just needs to get pushed to be motivated, but I'm loving the guy lately. Sure, I know people complain and will point to his matches vs Show at Survivor Series and vs Cena at the Rumble, but the Big Show storyline was doomed from the beginning and it's because of Big Show's inability to get over as a face in the eyes of a lot of folks. The Cena match was just awful and it's on both guys there, but finisher fests like that work for some people. 

However, he's having lots of great matches and I'll sure I'll recover more as I watch along. I think the early Bryan matches were MEH but he's developed a better chemistry with Bryan since then, and his match with Cesaro killed it almost like Cena killed it a few nights before .


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

If you wannt some good Randy Orton matches I recommend you to watch all of his Christian matches from 2011, especially the one from Over the Limit.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Its pretty easy to have a decent string of matches when you are in there w/ Bryan and Cesaro 

You should watch their feb raw match if you havent, best orton match in years


----------



## jcmmnx (Aug 7, 2009)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> Flux, no ****, bt I love you my brother. The Cruiser-weight division :mark:
> 
> I love how Noble looked strong throughout the entire match whenever he had Mysterio grounded plus all the ways he worked the left arm. Jaime was one of my favorites growing up (along with Helms) so I may biased in this, but in terms of the WWE, Noble was one of the top technical wrestlers in the company at the time. Mysterio :mark: was awesome, and while he isn't bad in the ring now, his old self was fucking awesome. The finishing sequence was awesome (NOBLE'S SELL OF THE 619!) and the Droppin the Dime mark for the win was a nice throwback.
> 
> ****** Why was this wasted on Velocity, when you could have this on Raw? The WWE pisses me off sometimes, and this is one of those times.


Noble is one of the most underrated guys of the last decade. He was like Dean Malenko with a personality. His ROH run was pretty damn great.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I need somthing good to watch....gimmay


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I need somthing good to watch....gimmay


Did you watch this i posted the other day:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)




----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I need somthing good to watch....gimmay


Watch the Hogan/Bockwinkel match I pimped and you said you would watch 

if you did watch it, THOUGHTS PLZ


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Well, add DDP to the long list of people who had one of the best matches of their career with Benoit. I think that might have topped the Goldberg match at Havoc and become my new favorite DDP bout. Loved how they started things out respectfully, but after Benoit escapes the Diamond Cutter and bails outside for 2 separate 10-counts, DDP loses his cool and it just devolved into a brawl. I've said it before, but that's one of my favorite stories to watch it wrestling: when two guys are having a respect filled wrestling match and something happens that causes bombs to be thrown. I also dug the methodical pace it was worked at, it was like clock work. Some excellent counters, some nice stiff strikes, just a lot to like there. Finish out of nowhere was great too. Thanks Funnyfaces, that ruled.

Zeppers- I'm not really in the mood for Japanese wrestling right now, I'm saving the link and will watch later, as I love me some Liger.

Smitster- where can I find that hogan/Bockwinkle match? Is it on Netflix? I'm in the mood for some Hogan after Chismo and my discussion about him.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Second match on disc one on the Hogan set on netflix 

First match is a nothing Andre/Hogan match that is short but still cool to see a preview of the WM 3 match (Y)

Also, halfway through this Bruce Prichard shoot, loving it so far


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DDP vs Benoit being DDP's best match? Goodness, no.

That wasn't even the best match on that PPV, haha.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Goldberg, Sting and Savage had better matches w/DDP than Benoit. It is really good, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jheri do you remember La Parka vs Disco from that PPV? _(SuperBrawl 1998)_


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ugh my Netflix isn't working.

Is Arn/Dustin from HH 1994 any good? Sounds fabulous on paper, and I just loved their Saturday Night match.

And I liked that match more than DDP/Goldberg, which I love a fair amount anyway, haven't seen the others you mentioned.

Which Sting and Savage matches were you referring to?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Jheri do you remember La Parka vs Disco from that PPV? _(SuperBrawl 1998)_


What!?!??? Don't remember hearing about that. :mark:



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Is Arn/Dustin from HH 1994 any good? Sounds fabulous on paper, and I just loved their Saturday Night match.


It's OK, but should have been eight thousand times better. The tag matches they had post-Arn heel turn are more fun, I think.


EDIT - Sting/DDP 4/26/99 (best Nitro match IMO) and DDP/Savage GAB97. Halloween Havoc 97 has a really good DDP/Savage as well. They have another match but IDR what I really thought of it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's quite fabulous, tbhayley. There's a bit of a shaky chair spot at the end, but it's minor. I chuckle w/it, so it even has humor to it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> What!?!??? Don't remember hearing about that. :mark:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Better than Eddie/Benoit in 1995?! I gotta see that match then. Since I only have access to PPV's right now I'll check the GAB Savage match out and report back on my findings.

To kill some time, watch this. This, ladies and gentleman, is why I believe Mick Foley is the best promo man in the history of wrestling:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Foley being god per usual. He really is.

and yeah. DDP vs Sting from 1999 is sooooooooo amazing. You got to watch.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd have Regal/Psicosis well above Eddie/Benoit as well. There are a few other Nitro matches that are probably just as good as Eddie/Benoit. This could be me not seeing it in a while talking, though. But I'm 100% positive I'd have Sting/DDP and Regal/Psic over it.

Eddie/Benoit had a lot of good matches from 95-97 on WCW. One from Saturday Night in 11/95 went, like, 12 minutes or something. TWELVE MINUTES.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sting/DDP on Nitro in 1998 is almost as good as their 99 match too. In fact the match is almost identical .

DDP/Goldberg Nitro 1999 is awesome too. Shame about the finish though.

DDP GOAT'ing it in WCW. Shame it never translated to WWF.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can buy those matches being over it. b/c all three a about as great as you could ask. They're interchangeable. At least, for me in terms of loving 'em a TON.


----------



## DDMac (Feb 20, 2005)

When Foley's on point, he's better than almost anybody, but he's had too many misses for me to put him at the top of the list.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

here you go Cjack, everyone watch it, one of my favorite Hogan matches


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wonder if that's the same one that was put on the Hogan unreleased collector's set. Or the Anthology set. idr which one the singles match is on.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DDMac said:


> When Foley's on point, he's better than almost anybody, but he's had too many misses for me to put him at the top of the list.



Misses? Show me where Foley has "missed" cutting a promo, please. I'm curious.

Just finished Savage/DDP GAB 1997. Well, I don't know if I would definitively put it about the Benoit SB match, but it's certainly right there. Savage was a complete psycho, but man DDP really was the stand out performer here. I won't say he flat out carried Savage, as that's not what happened at all, more that he seemed to keep the match going and keep going up and up instead of stagnating or falling off. Brawling through the back area was good, hell the brawling in general was very good especially considering neither guys are really known for having some wild fisticuffs slugfests. One thing that stuck out was DDP dumping the charcoal all over Savage. I've had that unfortunate experience before (had a bag of charcoal split while I was carrying it on my shoulder) and all I can say is Savage is a boss for putting up with it. That shit just gets everywhere and is a massive pain in the ass to wash off. Finish was typical WCW fair, but it didn't detract from the match one iota. Loved the Diamond Cutter counter in the end. I think I'll go ****1/4 for it, which is right about what I gave the Benoit match.

Gonna watch Henry/Cena MitB now then get on the DDP/Sting Nitro match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GAB '97 brawl is EXCELLENT. You should also check out DDP vs Raven from Spring Stampede 1998. Prefer that over the Benoit one too. _(and that's still a really good match, so that's my point)_


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]JIuqWMJAo[/YOUTUBE]

Just finished the DDP/Sting match from Nitro. Excellent, exactly as advertised. I do think, again, DDP was the stand out guy here, but to be perfectly honest I'm not crazy about him as a heel. I just like him as the under dog, hard working baby face more. I prefer the Savage/DDP match and the Benoit/DDP match to this, but only because of that single factor. Everything else about it was splendid. DDP was doing every dirty trick in the book to try and hold on to his title, and in classic Sting fashion, he was able to overcome every obstacle and eventually put away the evil DDP. LOVED the Scorpion Death Drop counter from the Diamond Cutter. Also as with the GAB match, pleasantly surprised with the capable brawling exhibited by both combatants. I've watched 4 DDP matches so far today, here's the ranking and ratings:

1. (tie) DDP/Savage GAB 1997 ****1/4
1. (tie) DDP/Benoit SuperBrawl VIII ****1/4
3. DDP/Goldberg Halloween Havoc 1998 ****1/4
4. DDP/Sting Nitro 1999 ****1/4

(Still have Eddie/Benoit 1995' as the best Nitro match ever)

Will check out that Raven bout tomorrow. Deciding to dive into some DDP tonight was a great decision. He's one guy I've never seen much of but always hear his praises sung. I love Flair, but he was wayyyy off base in calling DDP a joke of a wrestler, no idea why Flair insisted on burying him so badly in his book, but then again Flair has this weird bias against guys who like to visualize and plan their matches ahead of time over just calling it on the fly. I personally don't understand why that matters in the slightest. Guys like Bret Hart and Mick Foley would visualize matches, promos, and scenarios while driving down the road and then go out and do it, filling in the gaps by calling the rest in the ring. Guys like Austin, Flair, and Ricky Steamboat just liked to listen to the crowd and call it as they go. Then guys like Randy Savage and DDP liked to meticulously plan every single detail of their matches ahead of time. All of them are great professional wrestlers with a ridiculous amount of quality under their belts. Does anyone else have this bias against guys planning matches and spots ahead of time? I don't get it, as long as the match is great, why does it matter how you got there?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cjack, I'll send you a second list of DDP matches to look out for. The first one was solely just examples of him carrying a laundry list of shitty wrestlers in WCW's main event (which means all of them. Including Goldy). The DDP/Benoit/Raven feud over the US Title was sex. Sex, I tell you.

Some other candidates for top ten Nitro matches would be Kidman vs. Guerrera (9/14/98), Jericho/Eddie vs. Chavo/Malenko (2/9/98), Benoit vs. Malenko (09/13/99), Mysterio vs. Guerrera vs. Psychosis vs. BLITZKRIEG (4/19/99), and Raven vs. Benoit (03/16/98).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If that Benoit vs Malenko match is any good then I must see it. b/c those two have never had a single good match together as far as I know.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The first one was solely just examples of him carrying a laundry list of shitty wrestlers in WCW's main event (which means all of them. Including Goldy).


fuck you



funnyfaces1 said:


> Some other candidates for top ten Nitro matches would be Kidman vs. Guerrera (9/14/98), Jericho/Eddie vs. Chavo/Malenko (2/9/98), Benoit vs. Malenko (09/13/99), Mysterio vs. Guerrera vs. Psychosis vs. BLITZKRIEG (4/19/99), and Raven vs. Benoit (03/16/98).


I wouldn't have the cruiser fourway or Raven/Benoit, doubt I'd have Kidman/Juvi either in there. I am almost 100% certain I would have Eddie/Jericho v. Malenko/Chavo, and I'd throw in Eddie/Jericho v. Faces of Fear 2/24/97 as well. Hell the latter is probably top 5. Benoit/Sting 9/20/99 is top 5, surely. I'm totally serious when I say Jericho/Enos would be a contender. There are two fun as hell Eddie/Jarrett v. Benoit/Mongo tags from 97 and I think one of them would make it.

I think I hated Benoit/Malenko. Either that or I was just watching it with one eye because I was scared on a count of Hog Wild 96 being just about the worst match in the universe.

edit - I'm making a Nitro list one day.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Finlay vs Regal needs a mention here. There's a pearly Finlay vs Norman Smiley match during the time Finlay was still TV Champion. Think it may have been the Nitro right before GAB where he loses the strap. That's a top match. Also, Hogan & Savage vs Flair & Anderson + Flair vs Eddie.

Unsure about a Jarrett tag from 1997 if I like it. b/c there wasn't anyone in the whole of 1997 I hated more than Jarrett. I'm not counting Konnan, btw. That's much too universal & deeply obvious. Jarrett though. CRAP.

There's a Scott Norton squash I love too & Steiner vs Traylor from the same Spring Break Nitro the good Raven vs Benoit match happens on. I need to make this list happen. I hate lists. Don't much believe in caste systems except for what I can put at the top and bottom, but a nice collective list w/no sustained order, I can do that.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've always preferred the SN Regal/Finlay to the Parking Lot Brawl, even if it is fun. On that note, Finlay/Benoit 6/15/98 should absolutely 99% be in my top ten. I only remembered it b/c I found a post I made on top ten Nitro matches some time ago (it was top two w/ like eight other matches w/e). Also somehow forgot about Flair/Eddie 5/20/96 despite me bringing it up so often [edit- just saw you mentioned this. That Hogan tag is pretty awesome too]. According to my old post the better Jarrett 97 tag is 9/1/97. I think the other one happened the week before it.


I wrote this up before and lost it for some reason so if I lose this too I will kick something through some window of some kind. It's like three lines but who wants to type the same rubbish over and over. [[*has 9000 posts*]]


MIKE ENOS


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I prefer the Saturday Night match over the parking lot brawl myself, but for "Nitro list" purposes, you know.

Your forgetfulness of Flair/Eddie is akin to that of Finlay/Enos for me. The eruption by the audience once Enos gets on the offense. Wonderful.

Unrelated to Nitro: just found a match on youtube where Enos & Norton teamed up in Japan and one of their opponents is Hashimoto. Oh thank you random searching.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Unrelated to Nitro: just found a match on youtube where Enos & Norton teamed up in Japan and one of their opponents is Hashimoto. Oh thank you random searching.


I wish I could use letters to create an accurate representation of the squeal I just made.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcD1_zzfqos :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Some great NITRO matches:

Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Benoit - Nitro 16/10/1995
Finlay Vs Steven Regal – Nitro 29/04/1996
Eddie Guerrero Vs Ric Flair - Nitro 20/05/1996
Diamond Dallas Page Vs Sting - Nitro 26/04/1999
Diamond Dallas Page Vs Goldberg - Nitro 19/04/1999
Diamond Dallas Page Vs Bret Hart - Nitro 26/10/1998
Rey Mysterio Vs Eddie Guerrero - Nitro 08/09/1997
Arn Anderson Vs Hulk Hogan – Nitro 12/02/1996
Ric Flair Vs The Giant – Nitro 25/03/1996

aka all the Nitro matches I voted for on my WCW list. STARS~! wise the DDP/Sting 98 match would be above the bottom 2 or 3 maybe, but I didn't vote for it since it was essentially the same as their 99 match which was better.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I know Yeah is a big fan of Sting vs. Chris Benoit (9/20/99), i like it too apart from the 'typical WCW' finish. There is also that multi-man cruiserweight match from (4/19/99) i think.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, honestly off the top of my head (not really off the top of my head I've been looking at Nitro matches for chunks of the past three hours), Sting/Benoit would likely be my #3 or 4.

actually it'd probably go...

1. Sting/DDP 4/26/99
2. Regal/Psicosis 12/16/96
3. Sting/Benoit 9/20/99
4. Eddie/Benoit 10/16/95
5. Eddie/Jericho v. Meng/Barbarian 2/24/97
6. Benoit/Finlay 6/15/98
7. Eddie/Jericho v. Malenko/CHAVO THE GREAT 2/9/98
8. Flair/Eddie 5/20/96

A lot of other matches could take 9 & 10. I honestly don't remember Sting/DDP 98 and DDP/Goldberg 99 well enough to say whether they'd be here or not. Was Eddie/Benoit 10/20/97 on Nitro? That is four minutes of awesome. So is Jericho/Benoit 12/23/96. Shout out to Sting/Flair 4/12/99 btw. Probably my favourite Flair match between 1997 and...2004? 2005? I'd like to think it's a top 20, easily. Holy fuck a Nitro list sounds so cool right now.

I'm looking at the WCW list now and some of these cruiser matches look better than remembered. No way a match with Rey, Juvi, and Psicosis in the same ring shouldn't be at least a possible-maybe contender for top ten. I could really watch these again.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

How about Benoit/Bret?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Hitman said:


> How about Benoit/Bret?


I still love it, but most others here think it's bad.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bret/Benoit, the tribute match to Owen? Crazy how a match that SHOULD have had tons of emotion was completely emotionless.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hart/Benoit is solid, but like Cal said it's kind of dry. Too your-turn-my-turn-ish as well. I sure don't think it's bad [and I don't remember anyone saying it is] but I'd have a lot of Nitro matches above it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I used to think Bret/Benoit is a classic but I rewatched it a while back and did get the feeling that it's a bit too emotionless and dry. Still a solid match but just not the classic I remembered it being.

Sting/Benoit ruled from what I remember, though. Is that their only singles match ever?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nitro talk :mark:, yea ive seen a few on the ones being listed and tops stuff. A Up to date Nitro List is a much needed Project. I must see this flair/sting + flair/giant ( Think Ive seen this)

Ive never seen Bret/Benoit owen tribute in full, but that is probably why I never finish it . I found they have multiple matches (ppv + nitro), How are those ? I watched Bret/Sting from 99 and it didnt hold up


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Bret/Benoit (Owen Tribute) is one of the most dissapointing matches ever.....and it's still good, you know? I just expected with those two guys, with the emotions surrounding it, we by all rights should have been treated to a near 5-star classic. I even like the idea they had going into it, old school, trading submissions working on the mat, etc etc. But I think the problem is both guys were just TOO emotional, so instead of them remembering to show emotion and do the subtle things that made them the all time greats that they are, instead they just came off as near robotic at times because they were just trying to not break down in the ring. So yea, still a really good match, just not an all time great or anything. Might make a top 20 for Nitro matches for me, but no more.

Really like the Eddie/Rey Nitro match from 1997, the one where Rey wears the highlighter yellow gear. That's gotta be in my top 10 for Nitro matches.

Gonna watch Regal/Psicosis now if I can find it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Gonna watch Regal/Psicosis now if I can find it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


>



(Y)

Thoughts on the match:

Really, just as great as you all were making it out to be. One HUGE problem with it though: sweet Jesus, would it KILL Bischoff and DiBiase to just fucking call the match?!?! Jesus Christ, they were showing just utter contempt for their own product, they couldn't be bothered to call anything, just talking about Hogan vs Piper, like it was some big deal, which it was....back in 1985 when WWE first did that match at Wrestle freaking Mania. Who in their right mind would ever buy a PPV to see Hogan wrestle Piper in 1996? Why am I being force fed this garbage while trying to enjoy an amazing match? Cole and JBL are just as bad at times, but Bischoff and DiBiase just came off like the worlds most pretentious D-bags. Okay rant over.

Loved the blending of styles, Psicosis going all out with the Lucha stuff while Regal desperately wanted to keep it on the mat, but Psicosis also proved he had a few mat wrestling tricks up his sleeve. Regal's selling was as good as ever, loved how he sold his head after hitting the German. One of my favorite Regal spots: when the guy reverses Regal's arm bar, and just throws him forcefully down to the mat, shoulder first. I don't know why but it's one of my faves. Nice finish with Regal making Psicosis tap right away. Awesome. Awesome stuff. ****1/4

Best nitro matches:

1. Eddie/Benoit 1995
2. Regal/Psicosis 1996
3. Sting/DDP 1999


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

To this day, I'm still amazed by how crazy that crowd was for that match. Between Rey, Regal, and Michaels, I'm not sure who the WOTY is for 1996.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> To this day, I'm still amazed by how crazy that crowd was for that match. Between Rey, Regal, and Michaels, I'm not sure who the WOTY is for 1996.



The only matches I flat out love from Michaels in 1996 were SS vs Vader and MindGames with Foley. Rey Rey killed it just about every time he went out, and I haven't seen quite enough from Regal's 1996 to have an honest opinion on it.


Just finished Benoit/Finlay from Nitro in 1998, it's the night after the GAB. Every bit as good as I expected, the crowd pop for Benoit when he reverses into the Crossface was fucking awesome. New top 3 Nitro Match:

1. Eddie/Benoit 1995
2. Regal/Psicosis 1996
3. Benoit/Finlay 1998
4. Sting/DDP 1999

On to Flair/Eddie Nitro 1996.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Just saw Shawn Michaels v. Mankind _Mind Games 1996._ My life is complete.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I wish I could use letters to create an accurate representation of the squeal I just made.
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcD1_zzfqos :mark:


I still haven't watched it, but I WILL. Got sidetracked by this link that had Faces of Fear vs Mike Enos & Bobby Duncan Jr on Thunder. But it was a live feed, so no commercials and commentary were behind it. It was a nice, random find, I'd say. Also had LeRoux vs Super Calo & Finlay & Taylor vs Kidman & Chavo Jr on it.



SKINS said:


> Nitro talk :mark:, yea ive seen a few on the ones being listed and tops stuff. A Up to date Nitro List is a much needed Project. I must see this flair/sting + flair/giant ( Think Ive seen this)
> 
> Ive never seen Bret/Benoit owen tribute in full, but that is probably why I never finish it . I found they have multiple matches (ppv + nitro), How are those ? I watched Bret/Sting from 99 and it didnt hold up


It's not really worth seeing. Really dry, starts to drag when it's the same flow the entire way through. Believe their match in 1998 on Nitro is much better. May be the only Bret Hart match on Nitro I like, come to think of it.

Don't remember Bret vs Benoit from Mayhem. I should watch it today.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm not huge on Rey's 96 like a lot of people. I think from the US I'd take Michaels, Regal, Austin and 2 Cold Scorpio over him that year.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched, Rocky/Hogan mania 18, super super stuff, was fully invested the whole time. The crowd isnt even the best part, just the entire aura of two Pillars in wrestling history clashing. (Y) 



Michaels would be my WOTY for that year, I take into account weeklies more than just a couple of ppv matches and he brought it all the time that year. Don't remember anything special from Rey tbh, if someone could jog my memory


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> It's not really worth seeing. Really dry, starts to drag when it's the same flow the entire way through. Believe their match in 1998 on Nitro is much better. May be the only Bret Hart match on Nitro I like, come to think of it.
> 
> Don't remember Bret vs Benoit from Mayhem. I should watch it today.


Mmm, never seen the '98 Nitro Bret/Benoit match. What is the date of that one?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Starting Beach Blast 92. Seen Rude/Steamboat before, but :mark: at seeing it again.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I've been working my way through the shows on the Network and I skipped Royal Rumble 1988 because I watched it a few months ago. I tried to watch Wrestlemania IV and I just turned if off about an hour through. It's like the worst thing ever and it isn't going to get better. I've seen Savage's big moment and that's the only thing work seeing on the show. And even that match isn't that good, it's just good for the ending. 

I feel like my whole plan has been ruined based off how terrible Wrestlemania IV was.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Dude just give up. The Golden Era sucked. I'm glad that the world improved from those primitive times.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I really need to watch the Rude/Steamboat match. Right now, whenever I think of it, the first image that pops up in my mind is envisioning Rick Rude doing his dance while in a bearhug. Don't even ask me why. Actually I know why, because the ass shaking dance is the first thing I associate Rude with and the first thing I hear about regarding that match is always the "selling". Putting the two together brings that image.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Dude just give up. The Golden Era sucked. I'm glad that the world improved from those primitive times.


I'm considering just sticking with the WCW stuff from that time period and at least limit my WWF stuff to the great matches and stuff that I actually haven't seen. I watched Wrestlemania IV a bunch of time as a kid because I was a dumb kid and there were like a million matches on the show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'm not huge on Rey's 96 like a lot of people. I think from the US I'd take Michaels, Regal, Austin and 2 Cold Scorpio over him that year.


Scorpio b/c he got Sabu to have a really good match? :hayley3



The Hitman said:


> Mmm, never seen the '98 Nitro Bret/Benoit match. What is the date of that one?


6/22/98


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sabu ain't that bad. And Scorpio's 1993 might be better than his 96. Both being awesome years.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

It's like whenever I start to doubt why I'm watching some of this old stuff I watch a Arn/Tully tag match and my faith is restored. Great American Bash 1988 started well and it looks like it could be a great show, even if it has a Tower of Doom match...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah, I'll always go w/having Sabu as plenty bad. I'm not even speaking about the botch-y stuff. I'm just talking about him relying on too much crap to "make" his matches. His transitions & common spots are stuff I actively dislike. Worst camel clutch ever too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TaylorFitz said:


> It's like whenever I start to doubt why I'm watching some of this old stuff I watch a Arn/Tully tag match and my faith is restored. Great American Bash 1988 started well and it looks like it could be a great show, even if it has a Tower of Doom match...



I'm glad you post those reviews, I went and checked out Arn/Ole Vs Rock n Roll Cage Match at Starrcade and it was WELL worth it. The Anderson's and their limb work. Gosh they just rule at it. Plus the two heats, with that finall, bloody, Ricky heat :mark: Best match on that whole card and it ain't even close.

I've made a new rule for myself. Never, ever, watch a Foley hardcore match before watching another hardcore match for the first time. It will always seem worse than it is. I made the mistake of watching Cactus Jacks WWE premier in that FCA match with Hunter before watching DDP/Raven SS 98', and it made me overly critical of it. You guys all raved about that match, so I know there must be something to it, but I just really couldn't get into it, and I blame that on the unfairly high expectations I had of it some how surpassing a Foley match. The promo before the FCA match alone makes me mark like a little girl every single time "HES ALIVE! HES ALIVE! HUNTER, THIS MIGHT BE THE SADDEST DAY OF YOUR LIFE, BECAUSE ITS MADISON SQUARE GARDEN, AND MISSUS FOLEYS LITTLE BOY HAS FINALLY COME HOME. BANG BANG!" :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I adore both those matches. 

Foley's piledriver though the table > life.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> 6/22/98


Thanks mate. Need to watch that soon.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I got the *"Signature Sounds - The Music of the WWE" DVD*, and for $6, it was a total steal. I went in knowing that it wasn't super in-depth, so my expectations were low.

It's such a fun watch for nostalgia reasons alone. Actually watched it twice. Totally forgot how great the Brood's music was. It was fun to watch how Johnston would evolve an idea. Watching & listening him play the original versions, especially Taker's version, and then hearing the song done to full effect was really cool.

Johnston seems like a super smart guy. Also was pleasantly surprised that they included comments from the bands who did some of the songs. Nice to see that they seemed as genuinely excited as everyone else.

Definitely would recommend for a fun way to gain some insight, if you go in knowing that it's a countdown situation and not a super in-depth six hour documentary. The memories alone are worth it, IMO.

Also interesting to know that Johnston's music was basically the catalyst for Hakushi's character. You learn the background of things like that, with this DVD.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Unedited. Includes 'Voodoo Child' 

EDIT: Deleted already. ill upload it separately later.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I always LOVED that entrance, when Hogan tears up the "Vince STILL Sucks"" sign I always mark out a little bit .

Checking out Orton's 3 Disc set once again leading up to Wrestlemania XXX, especially if his title run is like 99 percent going to be cut off in 8 days. I see lots of matches that I like on the set, excited to get another look at matches like the Unforgiven 2003 match with HBK that Cal recently shit on, the Sheamus match in the cell that I'm always bashing for a few shitty spots that may or may not be unfair. 

Obviously seeing the Foley match on the set makes me :mark:.

I need to see why this DVD gets bashed on here. I saw the documentary before I ever joined here and I thought it was pretty good, but then I saw a plethora of reviews pointing to how it was straight up garbage .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sheamus/Batista was not very good. Sheamus tried, but Batista is still really slow and awkward.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Out of all Batista opponents on paper, I'd probably put Sheamus on a top 5 list of guys who were most likely to get a match out of him. To hear that even Sheamus couldn't produce with Big Dave truly worries me, I have to see this myself.

Honestly the only hope we have for a classic Batista match at this point is somebody like Rollins to play the underdog and bump for Dave's shitty offense. If we're getting Orton/Batista/Bryan in the main event of Wrestlemania then Batista should just get knocked out of the equation early on.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ain't nobody getting a good match out of Batista. Guy is too terrible that no matter how good his opponent is, his shite is gonna kill the match dead.

Speaking of, is everyone looking forward to ORTON VS BATISTA on Raw? :lmao


----------



## Arm-Bar1004 (Mar 7, 2012)

I'll be watching it with the back of my mind thinking this was going to close out Wrestlemania originally. In all honesty if you can give away a WM main event on tv then it probably wasn't deserving of being in the main event anyways.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Out of all Batista opponents on paper, I'd probably put Sheamus on a top 5 list of guys who were most likely to get a match out of him. To hear that even Sheamus couldn't produce with Big Dave truly worries me, I have to see this myself.


I wouldn't trust ff's opinion, though. He's extremely biased when it comes to Batista. Even though he's still not good, I think Big Dave has improved in his recent matches. Look at the RR and the Del Rio matches. On the former he was completely out of breath and on the latter, all he did was sell and then hit his signatures. He did more work in the Ziggler, Bryan and tag match with Orton vs Show/Bryan.

I'm still looking forward to watching the Sheamus match since it was a dream match for me before he returned.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Speaking of, is everyone looking forward to ORTON VS BATISTA on Raw? :lmao


Definitely. Orton in 2014 has done no wrong and I believe in him being able to make this entertaining with his antics.

Still :mark: for him main eventing WM again and with Bryan in the mix, the chances of the match being actually good this time has gone up big time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Quite a lot of WM main events have happened on TV over the years .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I say that the fans should just let them perform on Monday.

If the match is shit? Fine, okay the fans were right all along and they couldn't produce. If it's good? Well then we'll see just how good 2014 Orton is.

He's been great this year, clearly he's been more motivated than he's ever been since he gets to main event Wrestlemania XXX after the XXV disaster. I dislike a nice bit of his 2010-2012 stuff (Of course he had good matches in this time period, they just weren't consistent), but I can't deny his resurgence.


----------



## Arm-Bar1004 (Mar 7, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Quite a lot of WM main events have happened on TV over the years .


Oh right completely overlooked matches like Cena/Michaels and Rock/Austin must of had a match on Raw at some point. I was mostly thinking of how they throw away Cena/Miz every few months with no build.

Edit: Almost forgot, HHH/Orton was done a lot wasn't it?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rock/Austin happened the night after WM17, although that's due to The Rock leaving to film some movie. And HHH/Orton has happened a million times over the years. On TV and PPV.



Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> He's been great this year, clearly he's been more motivated than he's ever been since he gets to main event Wrestlemania XXX after the XXV disaster. I dislike a nice bit of his 2010-2012 stuff (Of course he had good matches in this time period, they just weren't consistent), but I can't deny his resurgence.


I think his in-ring year for 2011 was great. His promos were terrible then, though. But agree on 2010 and 12 being hit and miss. Don't recall a single match he had in those years that I'd label around the "great" area.

Good thing that he's not only gotten the fire back in the ring but also on the mic. He hasn't been this "complete" since 2006-07.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM match events done on TV (that I can remember):

Hogan/Andre (SNME I think?)
Sid/Undertaker (Raw)
Austin/HBK (Raw, though it was BEFORE WM in 96 lol)
Rock/Austin (Raw)
Jericho/HHH (a bunch of times)
Angle/Lesnar (SD About a month before their WM match LOL, then Iron Man later in the year)
Cena/HHH (Raw)
Cena/HBK (Raw a few times)
Orton/HHH (Raw a few times)
Cena/Miz (Raw a few times)

As for some of the earlier WM events, I'm probably missing some from maybe an MSG show or something like that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't think anybody actually cared about anything else besides Rock & Cena there, so giving away Miz Vs Cena on free TV isn't a big deal, especially when they actually wrestled a great match on RAW (I forget the date, I'm bad with that stuff these days, think it was on Rock's BDAY AKA the worst episode of RAW ever) that was about 453728 times better than their Wrestlemania ABOMINATION .

:lol at Orton saying about how he was always fucked up "for a few years" on his documentary. Kind of makes me wanna check out some 2005-2006 Orton just to see was he ever fucked up while in the ring.

I think he's great these days, the problem with him lies in the fact that they need to construct fresher feuds for him, which is really hard considering that he's essentially worn out feuds with Cena & Bryan at this point. Who the hell is he going to feud with after Bryan and Batista move on? Sheamus? There's been rumors of him going heel for a while now so that probably won't work. It can't be Reigns because I'm assuming the Shield will continue to be a thing for a while, which leaves nothing but midcarders .

The fan backlash to Bryan not being pushed in late 2013 and the last few months has done nothing but help Orton, as you can see he's becoming better at garnering heat through crowd interaction than he ever was. Orton's one of the few guys who actually listens to the fans when they speak, and since he's been interacting with the crowd more he's been top notch in every avenue.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I feel like there is very little focus on Orton as champion right now. It's either the fans cheering like mad for Bryan or booing Batista like mad, and Orton is just kind of there. I said the other day that Orton is nearing Miz levels of irrelevance heading into Mania, which may be a bit strong, but since Bryan/H (a program that has been booked very, very well in my eyes) included the title match stip, it's even less about Orton/Batista. Batista has been entertaining for me as a heel, and Orton has been too, just to a lesser extent (Monday night's opening was good for me pretty much all around). I think them having to turn Dave was for the best.

Edit: @Evan - I wish Hunter and Steph would acknowledge the crowd more. Kind of like this:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton has essentially been in the background for his entire reign since winning at SS. THE AUTHORITY have always been the real focus.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Vengeance 2003*

Time to end a pretty damn BAD PPV year with one of the better shows of the year! Ya know, assuming it holds up .


*Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Benoit- United States Championship Tournament Finals Match*

Man oh man, what a way to kick off the FIRST Smackdown only PPV! A new title and a match between two of the ALL TIME great wrestlers! Shows new fans EXACTLY what SD was all about at the time!

Love how they make it FEEL like a big time match with the referee getting them both in the middle of the ring and explaining the rules. Adds to the importance of the match and makes it feel like a big boxing match.

And we go from the seriousness of that to Eddie mocking Benoit being blinded last week :lmao. 

Crowd are HOT for this one, chanting for BOTH men and a smattering of "Eddie sucks" chants too .

Some great sequences between the two as they wrestle for control, with Benoit gaining the first advantage with a BRUTAL shoulder block, forcing Eddie to escape to the floor to stop any momentum Benoit was building. When he feels he's ready, he gets back in the ring to lock up and this time EDDIE gets the better of Benoit! But unlike Eddie, Benoit doesn't pussy out of the ring and gets right back into the thick of things!

They continue to battle for dominance, and even throw out a few quick pin attempts before Eddie gets the better of the Wolverine AGAIN and now even Benoit has to back off to the outside to stop momentum just like Eddie had to!

TOMBSTONE ATTEMPT FROM EDDIE? COUNTERED BY BENOIT!!! BENOIT WITH... A SHOULDER BREAKER! And quick as lightning Benoit DIVES at Eddie to try and lock in the Crossface! :mark:

Eddie escapes to the outside again, but Benoit is PUMPED UP and hits a suicide dive! No losing momentum this time!

Remember when TAZ was a good commentator? Seriously, there was a time when he was good. Certainly better than Lawler, as far as being a former wrestler EXPLAINING matches. He does a pretty terrific job during this match tbh.

FUCK ME at that back suplex by Eddie. Benoit lands fucking HARD on his head and he definitely looks like he was legit hurt. Eddie tries to pick him up but Benoit pushes him away and Eddie kicks him in the chest a few times before applying an arm bar so he can recover.

THUMB TO THE EYE by Eddie. Why? Because Eddie can be a PRICK when he wants . Unfortunately it just FIRES UP Benoit! SUPERMEGAFUCKINGDESTRUCTIVE BACK SUPLEX FROM THE TOP ROPE! Payback for the back suplex from earlier :mark:.

TRIPLE GERMANS~!

THREE AMIGOS~!

SUPERPLEX~! Revenge for the super back suplex! :mark:

FROG SPLASH~! BENOIT DOESN'T MOVE ALL THE WAY :lmao.

MOTHERFUCKING POWERBOMB~! Not quite Nitro 1995 levels of brutal, but damn that was awesome.

Benoit locks in the Crossface, but Eddie grabs the ropes. Ref has to drag Benoit off and Benoit is fucking PISSED. Eddie charges into Benoit and the poor ref is knocked down.

US TITLE BELT TO BENOIT'S FACE~! FROG SPLASH~! BENOIT KICKS OUT!!! Eddie cannot fucking believe it!

The belt didn't quite work, so Eddie grabs it, knocks out the referee, places the belt on Benoit then collapses on the mat! One problem... the ref is OUT! Eddie is AWESOME as he tries to revive the referee while still pretending to be knocked out himself . Classic LIE, CHEAT AND STEAL moment .

CROSSFACE~! EDDIE TAPS!!! But no referee still!!! So BENOIT resorts to slapping him to revive him :lmao. Poor ref.

Benoit goes for a headbutt, but Eddie has the belt in his hand! The ref tries to remove it, so Eddie drags him in the way of the headbutt!

GORE! GORE! GORE!!! RHYNO JUST GORED THE HELL OUT OF BENOIT!!!

Eddie is as confused as the rest of us, but shrugs and hits a Frog Splash anyway! 3 count! Eddie is the first ever WWE US champ!!!

This match fucking RULES. Still :mark:.

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*


*Billy Gunn Vs Jamie Noble - Indecent Proposal Match*

:lmao if Noble wins, HE GETS TO FUCK TORRIE WILSON :lmao.

:lmao Noble brings out a briefcase of SEX TOYS :lmao.










The sad thing is, I already had that pic uploaded :lmao.

Taz to Cole: "HE'S GOT YOUR BRIEFCASE OMG!!!" :lmao

Billy Gunn does a STING from the... GAB 92 match I think? Where he STINGER SPASHES himself head first into the ring post like a chump. Except Billy Gunn doesn't lose the match from that. So that means... Gunn > Sting? 8*D

:lmao at Noble MISSING a dropkick, but Gunn selling it anyway .

Leg work from Noble. Love those big kicks he lands, but he keeps going for the same thing and Billy JUMPS out of the way with his other leg and hits the ONE AND ONLY.

Unique neckbreaker from Gunn looked pretty fecking awesome. Goes for the Fameasser but his leg prevents him from hitting it, so what does he do? RKO :lmao.

Noble has survived Billy's finisher from 2000-2001 AND an RKO. HE REALLY WANTS TO FUCK TORRIE!!!

DDT from the ropes!!! Noble has got this one in the bag... but Nidia puts Gunn's leg on the ropes! She don't want her man fucking another women! Torrie and Nidia both try to get involved on behalf of Gunn, but that injured leg comes back to haunt the ASS MAN... AND NOBLE WINS! NOBLE WINS! NOBLE WINS!!!

And then this whole thing ends with a FOUR WAY on SD :lmao. Solid match.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


DIS FUNAKI, SMUCKDAN NUM WAN ANNONCUR! He's interviewing the APA about their INVITIATIONAL BAR ROOM BRAWL MATCH! Funaki gets invited to the match! OMG THE EASTER BUNNY~!


*Bradshaw Vs Farooq Vs Shannon Moore Vs Doink the Clown Vs Brother Love Vs Nunzio Vs Matt Hardy Vs Chris Kanyon Vs Danny Basham Vs Doug Basham Vs The Easter Bunny Vs Sean O'Haire Vs John Hennigan Vs Orlando Jordan Vs Funaki Vs Los Conquistadores Vs The Brooklyn Brawler Vs Johnny Stamboli Vs Chuck Palumbo Vs Matt Cappotelli Vs Spanky - APA Invitational Bar Room Brawl*

:lmao at Spanky dancing on the bar to everyone's entrance music.

Used wiki to get the names of everyone involved so no idea how accurate it actually is .

JUST BECAUSE I LOOOOOOOVE YOU, DOESN'T MEAN I LIKE YOU! Brother Love rules. Everyone go watch his 6 hour shoot.

:lmao at Sean O'Haire laughing his arse off in the background. BROTHER LOVE TAKES OUT 2 JOBBERS WITH A BAR STOOL~!

Oh man this is just pure FUN. A bunch of guys beating the shit out of each other on a bar set. Broken glass, broken tables, broken stools, broken pool cues and BROKEN BODIES :mark:.

Funaki manages to last until the final four by sitting on a stool drinking the entire match . Bradshaw does to level him with a bar stool, but poor Funaki collapses in a drunken state .

Brother Love gets taken out by Bradshaw and despite the fact FAROOQ IS STOOD NEXT TO HIM... Bradshaw wins? Apparently Farooq was knocked out already? Oh well .

FUN :mark:.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


:lmao at Noble drooling all over Torrie's playboy magazine .


*Rey Mysterio & Billy Kidman Vs The World's Greatest Tag Team - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

LOL at Shelton taking Rey to the mat and basically trying to dry hump him .

Rey and Kidman try to use their flippy offence to keep Shelton and Hass from using their superior mat skills, but Hass and Benjamin are also the bigger guys in the match and can use some POWER combined with their mat skills to avoid some of those high flying moves and work over Rey Rey.

Hot tag to Kidman and we get a great sequence with Rey preventing the... that double team move WGTT do, allowing Kidman to counter and set up Hass in the ring for a 619. Rey gets in the ring, tries to run the ropes and Shelton puts a stop to the 619 in the same way Rey stopped him moments earlier!

Kidman takes a sick back bump off the ring post and WGTT are like sharks smelling blood in the water, going right after the back with some good back work :mark:.

Tag to Rey... but the referee doesn't see it!!! Ha. MOAR great back work :mark:.

POWERBOMB by Shelton!

Shelton goes for a second Powerbomb, but Kidman counters and makes the tag! :lmao at Rey doing a flip over the ropes and just kinda... kicking Shelton in the face. Think it was supposed to be a version of the West Coast Pop but the flip added into it meant he couldn't really land right .

WEST COAST POP FOR REALSIES THIS TIME~! But Kidman has the referee distracted by mistake and Shelton charges at Mysterio's head with his boot! 2 count only!!!

Hass is set up on the ropes, Rey runs at him, Kidman throws him in the air and Mysterio lands a Hurricanrana!!! 1...2... KICK OUT! Crowd chant "BULLSHIT" at it because fuck me that was CLOSE :mark:.

REVERSE DOOMSDAY DEVICE~! Benjamin got a blind tag while Rey was on Hass' shoulders going for a Hurricanrana and lands a clothesline! 3 count! WGTT retain!

Great match no doubt. Like it more than my last watch. Last time I thought it was more spotty than good tag wrestling, but there was plenty of good tag shit in this for me to :mark: and combine that with some great moves, it ends up being a match I like a lot. Better than the more highly praised NM 02 tag match.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*Sable Vs Stephanie McMahon - No Countout Cat Fight*

Remember when Stephanie ripped Sable's top off and her tits fell out? We all do. And they show it again before the match .

FAP FAP FAP STEPHANIE'S RING ATTIRE :mark:.

Sable stays on the floor posing rather than getting in the ring, so Stephanie charges after her instead! WEDGY~!

Sable ends up kicking the shit out of Stephanie, but almost gets rolled up for a 3 count after doing her Sable grind while stood over Miss McMahon.

STEPHANIE TRYING TO KILL SABLE WITH A STEEL CHAIR~! But the ref takes it away. Man, these two are really SNUG wih the offence lol. Real slaps and those ELBOWS look great too. These two are having a better executed match than most divas today who apparently train day in and day out and have matches multiple times a week :lmao.

SABLE'S TITS~! Bah, the damn referee gives her his t-shirt . And while he does that, fucking A-TRAIN RUNS OVER STEPHANIE! Sable wins!

Good match!

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*The Undertaker Vs John Cena*

:mark:

"EVERYBODY GOTTA LEARN THE HARD WAY" Man the build up for this was sweeeet. Now if only we could get that fucking WRESTLEMANIA MATCH with them...

Undertaker just sat on his bike at the top of the ramp, making Cena WAIT, playing those MIND GAMES with him :mark:. Then he leaves his bike at the top of the ramp and slowly WALKS down to Cena. Cena is gonna have to think about what's coming that little bit longer.

BITCH SLAP TO THE UNDERTAKER~! Cena ain't no smart guy.

THOSE FUCKING PUNCHES :mark:. Referee shits himself when he tries to get 'Taker out of the corner and Undertaker confronts him. God I love that spot in Undertaker matches :lmao.

BODY SHOTS~! Undertaker is picking apart those RIBS of Cena. Wants him to HURT.

The Undertaker is slowly picking apart Cena, beating some RESPECT into the rookie. PUNCH TO THE BACK OF THE HEAD~!

Cena is getting the beating of his life. Basically gets ZERO offence for the first 5 minutes or so. OLD SCHOOL~! CHOKESLAM~! Cena takes an AWESOME bump off the Chokeslam.

1...2... UNDERTAKER PULLS HIM UP. He ain't done with him yet. LAST RIDE! Cena counters into a DDT!

Cena knows the DDT won't be enough to put the Dead Man away, so while the ref is checking on him, Cena decides to expose one of the top turnbuckles! But he is having trouble taking if off, allowing Undertaker to recover and get back to beating the absolute SHIT out of the disrespectful little shit.

The turnbuckle finally gets exposed and Undertaker flies shoulder first into it! Now Cena can try and mount an offence, and he does it by targeting UNDERTAKER'S RIBS, repaying the Dead Man for what happened in the early part of the match! UNDERTAKER IS BLEEDING INTERNALLY!!!

Cena works the rib area nicely, with knees, kicks and big right hands. Undertaker keeps trying to make a comeback, but Cena continues to cut him off thanks to those injured ribs.

:mark: at how Undertaker sells the ribs on the leaping lariat, not even really jumping because it hurts too much :mark:. Crazy to think how one of the best sellers is also a guy who for most of his career has been a Dead Man/Zombie dude who no sells shit.

CHAIN TO UNDERTAKER'S RIBS~! CENA IS STALKING UNDERTAKER, SETTING UP FOR THE F-U!!! IT'S OVER!!!

NO! UNDERTAKER KICKS OUT!!! Cena is beyond pissed! And when you get pissed off, you make MISTAKES, and Cena makes one HUGE mistake by mounting Undertaker in the corner and getting a LAST RIDE! This one is done, but Cena was THIS FUCKING CLOSE to putting away the Dead Man!!!

Awesome, awesome match. The early beating on Cena is great, with Undertaker doing what he said he was gonna do; beat some respect out of Cena. Cena managed to capitalise one ONE mistake by Undertaker and that's all it took for him to bust those ribs up and make UNDERTAKER PAY. And just like Cena capitalised one ONE mistake, Undertaker did the same only Cena's was far worse and ended the match. A wonderful performence by Undertaker as both the BAD ASS guy destroying this young rookie, and the FIP selling the absolute shit out of his ribs. And Cena did a great job bumping around for the Dead Man, then looked great on offence and working over such a legend. Think I like this more than the Angle match from No Mercy tbh.

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*


*Vince McMahon Vs Zach Gowen*

Oh man, 2003 was the year of Vince being the BIGGEST PRICK EVER. He tried to kill Hogan, then he moves on to this match against a ONE LEGGED KID, and then he round out the year by beating the shit out of his own DAUGHTER and buries Undertaker alive :lmao.

:lmao Vince is fucking DOMINATING A KID WITH ONE LEG and he clearly states he's enjoying it :lmao. Vince is the greatest.

GOWEN MAKING A COMEBACK~! He's bouncing around on one leg and taking it to Mr McMahon!!!

But it ain't enough, and Vince is working over the leg of Gowen :lmao. WHAT A CUNT :lmao.

Vince is just pure EVIL and I'm loving every second of this :lmao. What a guy.

:lmao a "GOT LEGS?" sign :lmao.

HALF BOSTON CRAB~! Or is it a normal Boston Crab...? I dunno .

Gowen starts to... Gowen up or something, with some kicks to VINCE'S LEG, then begins a comeback by basically throwing himself leg first at Vince!!!

Now it's VINCE'S TURN to feel the pain! BALLS INTO THE RING POST!

MOONSAULT~!

Vince is in real trouble now, he's limping and hurting, so he decides to be an even BIGGER CUNT by bringing in a steel chair!!! The ref tries to take it away but ends up FLYING through the ropes to the floor. WHAT A REF BUMP!!

Gowen dropkicks the chair into McMahon's head! VINCE IS FUCKING GUSHING BLOOD!!! Gowen goes for a twisting Moonsault, but misses and Vince covers for a 3 count.

Fun match with lots of good in it... BUT it does drag a bit. Goes 14 minutes, only 2 minutes less than Cena/Undertaker. Probably should have been 10 minutes or so instead imo.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle Vs The Big Show - WWE Championship Match*

CHOKESLAM TO LESNAR IN A MINUTE~! BIG SHOW GONNA WIN THE TITLE!! Bah, Angle broke it up .

"HOLY ASS HAIR" :lmao WTF Taz?

Big Show is on fucking FIRE early on. He knows he has to keep Angle and Lesnar away from each other because they'll just double team him. He almost beat Lesnar in a minute and now he's mauling Angle while keeping Lesnar out of the ring too :mark:.

TIN FOIL TRASH CAN LIDS~! Big Show gets beaten to death with them or something :lmao. Angle and Lesnar try to double suplex Show, but he reverses it into a double suplex of his own! Show goes for a double chokeslam, but Lesnar and Angle double chokeslam BIG SHOW!!!

Lesnar goes for a cover, but Angle drags him off and now it's time for these two to GET IT ON!!! :mark:

F-5 TO ANGLE!!! He rolls out of the ring, leaving Show to take an F-5 too!!! Lesnar gonna retain!!! Lesnar gonna retain!!!

NO!!! ANGLE PULLS THE REFEREE OUT!

ANGLE IS BLEEDING~! From uhhh... I saw him get thrown BACK FIRST into the steel steps so fuck knows when he got busted open . I might have blinked and missed it.

:lmao at Taz talking about HOOKERS in the ring.

:lmao at Big Show trying to climb the ropes to superplex Lesnar.

LESNAR ESCAPES AND HITS A FUCKING RUNNING POWERBOMB TO BIG SHOW. A FUCKING RUNNING POWERBOMB. TO THE BIG SHOW. HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!

Angle being busted open puts him at a disadvantage so he brings in a steel chair to even up the odds, and decks everyone with it!!! Until Show kicks it back in his face .

SPANISH ANNOUNCE TABLE~! ANGLE SLAM TO BIG SHOW~! THE TABLE IS DEAD~!

With Big Show out of it, it's down to Angle and Lesnar, who is now also busted open! WM main event rematch coming up!!! :mark:

Man, Angle is fucking ROCKING Lesnar with those rights to the face! Underrated puncher back in the day was Kurt.

GOOD GOD. THAT RELEASE GERMAN SUPLEX. DAMN!!!

SLEEPER HOLD :mark:. Wait... what? Great. A sleeper/body scissors in a fucking TRIPLE THREAT MATCH. Way to suck the life out of the match, Brock.

BIG SHOW IS BACK!!! Double Chokeslam incoming! HE HITS IT!! Covers Lesnar, but he kicks out!!! Covers Angle, but Brock breaks it up!

Ha, great Ankle Lock spot. Angle is on fire again and looks UNSTOPPABLE! Angle Slam to Big Show! Angle Slam to Lesnar! 1...2..3!!! New Champion!!!

Great triple threat match. Yeah, still follows the usual formula of "2 guys in, 1 guy out", but they work it better than most matches tend to do, and other than the sleeper spot, there was always something going one without it feeling overly spotty.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 23.5*​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon - WWE Wrestlemania 19*

'Live PPV Version' - Unedited. Includes 'Voodoo Child' 

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-m...mahon-wwe-wrestlemania-19-a.html#post32044905

Since DM took it down.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What an up and down year 2003 was on PPV (and TV too for that matter, but that's not what I'm discussing here lol). Half of it was awesome. The other half, dreadful. SD = awesome. Raw = ARRGGGHHHH.

*PPV Wrestler of the Year*

A difficult decision this time around. 00, 01 and 02 all had that ONE GUY who absolutely dominated the top 10 matches list. This time around it is FAR more varied, which makes for interesting viewing. Just look at the list of guys who make up the top 10 matches:

Angle
Cena
Undertaker
Big Show
Eddie
Benoit
Lesnar
Jericho
HBK
Rock
Austin
Rhyno
Tajiri

A who's who of wrestling in terms of "big names", plus an appearence from Tajiri who absolutely deserves to be right up there with the best of the best and Rhyno who, while underrated a great deal, was definitely more of a surprise than anything but certainly a welcome one.

Narrowing it down to who was involved in the most matches out of the top 10, both Angle and Lesnar tied at 3 each, with 2 of the matches being against each other. So, to try and seperate them, I ignored those matches and looked at the remaining match for each of them against different opponents. Angle had the NM match with Cena, and Lesnar the NM match with Undertaker, and the Undertaker match is just ahead of the Cena match for me so I'm naming LESNAR the PPV Wrestler of the Year! Not only does he have those 3 top 10 matches, but he was the winner of the RR as well as having a fun match with Show on the same PPV, then a GREAT stretcher match with Show at JD too. But it was close!

*PPV Match of the Year*

Steve Austin Vs The Rock from WrestleMania 19 gets the nod for me. My favourite match between the two (and their best imo, beating out WM 17), which such a great story to it, and wonderful performences from both men, especially THE ROCK who was the driving force behind it being so good, which places it as Rock's #1 performence ever for me and also his greatest match. Overall though, the top 10 features some really great matches, BUT is a step down from the last 3 years. 00, 01 and 02 have a much stronger top 10 list, with all 3 years having a couple of matches at ****3/4 and/or *****, something 2003 failed to achieve. Honestly, I blame RAW . If Raw hasn't have been so damn awful outside of a couple of matches, maybe 03 would have produced some better quality shit!

*PPV of the Year*

Since I'd already done my RR and WM reviews before starting this yearly PPV project, the PPV of the Year was set in stone a long time ago, and it didn't get dethroned! WrestleMania 19, at a wopping 29.5 on the CAL SCALE is the clear #1 PPV of the year, and so far the #1 PPV of all time! Doubt it is going to be beaten either, certainly not by WWE, anyway.

As for other PPV's in 2003, there is a clear trend of SD only PPV's = GREAT, Raw PPV's = AWFUL, and Dual Branded PPV's = in the middle. Raw gave us the current BOTTOM TWO PPV's of all time with Insurrextion and Unforgiven, both being in the MINUS points on the CAL SCALE. SD gave us the #2 and #3 PPV's of the year with Vengeance and No Mercy, with Vengeance placing currently in the top 5 PPV's of all time list.

Overall, 2003 on PPV was a big step down from previous years, all thanks to the Raw side of things dragging everything down.

2003 PPV compared to 2000, 2001 and 2002:










2003 PPV Matches Ranked:



Spoiler: worst to best



The Dudley Boys Vs Rodney Mack & Christopher Nowinski - NO - -1 (Bad Blood)
Scott Steiner Vs Test - NO - -1 (Bad Blood)
Christian Vs Booker T - NO - -1 (Bad Blood)
La Resistance Vs RVD & Kane - NO - -1 (Bad Blood)
Molly Holly Vs Ivory - NO - -1 (Armageddon)
Lita Vs Molly Holly - NO - -1 (Survivor Series)
Dawn Marie Vs Torrie Wilson - NO - -1 (Royal Rumble)
Test Vs Scott Steiner - NO - -1 (Unforgiven)
Gail Kim & Molly Holly Vs Trish Stratus & Lita - NO - -1 (Unforgiven)
The Coach & Al Snow Vs Jerry Lawler & Jim Ross - NO - -1 (Unforgiven)
Trish Stratus Vs Jacqueline Vs Victoria Vs Jazz - NO - -1 (Judgment Day)
Mr America Vs Roddy Piper - NO - -1 (Judgment Day)
Test & Scott Steiner Vs La Resistance - NO - -1 (Judgment Day)
Trish Stratus Vs Jazz - NO - -1 (Insurrextion)
Test Vs Scott Steiner - NO - -1 (Insurrextion)
Jazz Vs Trish Stratus - NO - -1 (Backlash)
Steve Austin Vs Eric Bischoff - NO - -1 (No Way Out)
Hulk Hogan Vs The Rock - DUD - 0 (No Way Out)
Maven Vs Matt Hardy - DUD - 0 (Armageddon)
Triple H Vs Scott Steiner - DUD - 0 (No Way Out)
Triple H Vs Goldberg - DUD - 0 (Unforgiven)
The Dudley Boys Vs La Resistance - DUD - 0 (SummerSlam)
Triple H Vs Scott Steiner - DUD - 0 (Royal Rumble)
The Basham Brothers Vs Los Guerreros - 1/4* - 0 (Survivor Series)
Christian Vs RVD Vs Chris Jericho - 1/4* - 0 (Unforgiven)
Triple H Vs Kevin Nash - 1/4* - 0 (Judgment Day)
Kane Vs Rob Van Dam - 1/4* - 0 (SummerSlam)
Kurt Angle, Shelton Benjamin & Charlie Hass Vs Brock Lesnar & Chris Benoit - 1/4* - 0 (No Way Out)
The Dudley Boys Vs Christopher Nowenski, Rodney Mack & Teddy Long - 1/2* - 0 (Insurrextion)
Goldberg Vs Triple H - 1/2* - 0 (Survivor Series)
Vince McMahon Vs Hulk Hogan - 1/2* - 0 (WrestleMania XIX)
Shane McMahon Vs Kane - 1/2* - 0 (Survivor Series)
Shane McMahon Vs Eric Bischoff - * - 0 (SummerSlam)
The Rock Vs Goldberg - * - 0 (Backlash)
Christian Vs Booker T - * - 0 (Insurrextion)
Billy Kidman Vs Matt Hardy - * - 0 (No Way Out)
Chris Jericho Vs Jeff Hardy - * - 0 (No Way Out)
Shawn Michaels Vs Randy Orton - * - 0 (Unforgiven)
Shawn Michaels, Kevin Nash & Booker T Vs Triple H, Ric Flair & Chris Jericho - * - 0 (Backlash)
Kane & RVD Vs The Dudley Boys - * - 0 (Backlash)
Chris Jericho Vs Goldberg - * - 0 (Bad Blood)
Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, John Cena, Bradshaw & Harcore Holly Vs Brock Lesnar, The Big Show, A-Train, Nathan Jones & Matt Morgan - * - 0 (Survivor Series)
Torrie Wilson Vs Sable - * - 0 (Judgment Day)
La Resistance Vs The Hurricane & Rosey Vs Lance Cade & Mark Jindrak Vs Val Venis & Lance Storm Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Scott Steiner & Test Vs Batista & Ric Flair - * - 0 (Armageddon)
Kane Vs Shane McMahon - *1/4 - 0 (Unforgiven)
Kane & RVD Vs L Resistance - *1/2 - 0.5 (Insurrextion)
Triple H Vs Kevin Nash - *1/2 - 0.5 (Insurrextion)
Rikishi Vs Sean O'Haire - ** - 0.5 (Backlash)
Vince McMahon Vs Zach Gowen - ** - 0/5 (Vengeance)
Brock Lesnar Vs John Cena - ** - 0.5 (Backlash)
The Dudley Boys Vs William Regal & Lance Storm - ** - 0.5 (Royal Rumble)
Victoria Vs Trish Stratus Vs Jazz - ** - 0.5 (WrestleMania XIX)
Zack Gowen Vs Matt Hardy - ** - 0.5 (No Mercy)
Rico Vs Goldust - **1/4 - 1 (Insurrextion)
Goldberg Vs Kane Vs Triple H - **1/2 - 1 (Armageddon)
John Cena & The FBI Vs Chris Benoit, Rhyno & Spanky - **1/2 - 1 (Judgment Day)
Vince McMahon Vs Stephanie McMahon - **1/2 - 1 (No Mercy)
Rob Van Dam & Kane Vs William Regal & Lance Storm - **1/2 - 1 (No Way Out)
APA Vs The Basham Brothers - **1/2 - 1 (No Mercy)
Billy Gunn Vs Jamie Noble - **1/2 - 1 (Vengeance)
Sable Vs Stephanie McMahon - **1/2 - 1 (Vengeance)
The Big Show Vs Rey Mysterio - **3/4 - 1 (Backlash)
The Undertaker Vs The Big Show & A-Train - **3/4 - 1 (WrestleMania XIX)
Chris Jericho Vs Christian Vs Booker T Vs Val Venis Vs Goldust Vs Lance Storm Vs RVD Vs Kane Vs Test - *** - 2 (Judgment Day)
The Dudley Boys Vs La Resistance - *** - 2 (Unforgiven)
Ric Flair Vs Shawn Michaels - *** - 2 (Bad Blood)
Bradshaw Vs Farooq Vs Shannon Moore Vs Doink the Clown Vs Brother Love Vs Nunzio Vs Matt Hardy Vs Chris Kanyon Vs Danny Basham Vs Doug Basham Vs The Easter Bunny Vs Sean O'Haire Vs John Hennigan Vs Orlando Jordan Vs Funaki Vs Los Conquistadores Vs The Brooklyn Brawler Vs Johnny Stamboli Vs Chuck Palumbo Vs Matt Cappotelli Vs Spanky - *** - 2 (Vengeance)
The Undertaker Vs Vince McMahon - *** - 2 (Survivor Series)
Chris Jericho & Christian Vs Trish Stratus & Lita - *** - 2 (Armageddon)
The Undertaker Vs A-Train - *** - 2 (SummerSlam)
The Big Show Vs Brock Lesnar - *** - 2 (Royal Rumble)
Mark Henry Vs Booker T - ***1/4 - 2 (Armageddon)
Shawn Michaels Vs Batista - ***1/4 - 2 (Armageddon)
Chris Benoit Vs Kurt Angle - ***1/4 - 2 (Royal Rumble)
Team Angle Vs Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri - ***1/4 - 2 (Judgment Day)
Matt Hardy Vs Rey Mysterio - ***1/2 - 3 (WrestleMania XIX)
Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show - ***1/2 - 3 (Judgment Day)
Triple H Vs Randy Orton Vs Goldberg Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Kevin Nash Vs Chris Jericho - ***1/2 - 3 (SummerSlam)
Triple H Vs Kevin Nash - ***1/2 - 3 (Bad Blood)
Eddie Guerrero Vs The Big Show - ***1/2 - 3 (No Mercy)
A-Train Vs Chris Benoit - ***1/2 - 3 (No Mercy)
30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ***3/4 - 4 (Royal Rumble)
Rey Mysterio & Billy Kidman Vs The World's Greatest Tag Team - ***3/4 - 4 (Vengeance)
Shawn Michaels, Booker T, RVD & The Dudley Boys Vs Mark Henry, Randy Orton, Christian, Chris Jericho & Scott Steiner - ***3/4 - 4 (Survivor Series)
RVD Vs Randy Orton - ***3/4 - 4 (Armageddon)
Team Angle Vs Los Guerreros Vs Rhyno & Chris Benoit - ***3/4 - 4 (WrestleMania XIX)
Team Angle Vs Los Guerreros - ***3/4 - 4 (Backlash)
Triple H Vs Booker T - ***3/4 - 4 (WrestleMania XIX)
Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle Vs The Big Show - ***3/4 - 4 (Vengeance)
Tajiri Vs Rey Mysterio - ***3/4 - 4 (No Mercy)
Kurt Angle Vs John Cena - ***3/4 - 4 (No Mercy)
The Undertaker Vs The Big Show - ***3/4 - 4 (No Way Out)
Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - **** - 5 (WrestleMania XIX)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Benoit Vs Rhyno Vs Tajiri - **** - 5 (SummerSlam)
Brock Lesnar Vs The Undertaker - **** - 5 (No Mercy)
The Undertaker Vs John Cena - **** - 5 (Vengeance)
Chris Jericho Vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/4 - 6 (WrestleMania XIX)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Benoit - ****1/4 - 6 (Vengeance)
Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle - ****1/2 - 7 (SumerSlam)
The Rock Vs Steve Austin - ****1/2 - 7 (WrestleMania XIX)



PPV's Ranked on the CAL SCALE:



Spoiler: worst to best



Unforgiven 2003 - -1
Insurrextion 2003 - -0.5
WrestleMania 2 - 0.5
Insurrextion 2002 - 1
WrestleMania IV - 1
Bad Blood 2003 - 1
WrestleMania XV - 2
2006 Royal Rumble - 2
2012 Royal Rumble - 2
WrestleMania V - 2
Rebellion 2002 - 2.5
2010 Royal Rumble - 2.5
1999 Royal Rumble - 3.5
2013 Royal Rumble - 3.5
No Way Out 2003 - 4
1993 Royal Rumble - 4
Armageddon 2000 - 4
WrestleMania VI - 4.5
WrestleMania 1 - 4.5
2011 Royal Rumble - 4.5
Backlash 2003 - 5
1997 Royal Rumble - 5
WrestleMania IX - 5
Survivor Series 2003 - 5
Judgment Day 2003 - 5
1988 Royal Rumble - 5.5
WrestleMania XI - 6
Survivor Series 2000 - 6
Global Warning Tour 2002 - 6.5
WrestleMania III - 6.5
Insurrextion 2001 - 6.5
WrestleMania XIV - 7
1989 Royal Rumble - 7
No Mercy 2000 - 7
Judgment Day 2002 - 7.5
WrestleMania XII - 7.5
2003 Royal Rumble - 7.5
1994 Royal Rumble - 7.5
Insurrextion 2000 - 7.5
No Way Out 2001 - 7.5
2004 Royal Rumble - 7.5
King of the Ring 2002 - 8
1990 Royal Rumble - 8
WrestleMania VIII - 8.5
2008 Royal Rumble - 9
Rebellion 2000 - 9
Rebellion 2001 - 9
1998 Royal Rumble - 9.5
WrestleMania 2000 - 10
Vengeance 2001 - 10
Armageddon 2003 - 10
Unforgiven 2002 - 10.5
No Mercy 2001 - 10.5
Armageddon 2002 - 10.5
2014 Royal Rumble - 10.5
King of the Ring 2001 - 11
Invasion 2001 - 11
1991 Royal Rumble - 11.5
WrestleMania 23 - 11.5
WrestleMania X - 11.5
WrestleMania 27 - 12
Unforgiven 2001 - 12
2007 Royal Rumble - 12
No Way Out 2002 - 12.5
WrestleMania XX - 12.5
1996 Royal Rumble - 13
SummerSlam 2000 - 13
WrestleMania 29 - 13.5
WrestleMania VII - 13.5
Survivor Series 2001 - 13.5
No Way Out 2000 - 13.5
1992 Royal Rumble - 13.5
King of the Ring 2000 - 14.5
WrestleMania X8 - 14.5
WrestleMania 13 - 14.5
Unforgiven 2000 - 15
Vengeance 2002 - 15
Backlash 2002 - 15
Judgment Day 2001 - 15
2009 Royal Rumble - 15
No Mercy 2002 - 15.5
WrestleMania 26 - 15.5
1995 Royal Rumble - 15.5
WrestleMania 28 - 16
SummerSlam 2003 - 17
2005 Royal Rumble - 17
2000 Royal Rumble - 17
Judgement Day 2000 - 17
2002 Royal Rumble - 17.5
WrestleMania 24 - 18
No Mercy 2008 - 19
WrestleMania 21 - 19
WrestleMania 25 - 20
Suvivor Series 2002 - 20
2001 Royal Rumble - 20
WrestleMania 22 - 20.5
Backlash 2001 - 20.5
Fully Loaded 2000 - 20.5
No Mercy 2003 - 21.5
WrestleMania X7 - 23
SummerSlam 2001 - 23
Vengeance 2003 - 23.5
SummerSlam 2002 - 24
Backlash 2000 - 25
WrestleMania XIX - 29.5


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Do you have the review for WM 19 available? Quite interested now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://wrestlingview.co.uk/?p=944 WM XIX review.

Edit: formatting is horrible, something that happened when I changed up my theme. Easy to read version:



Spoiler: WM XIX



WrestleMania XIX

I consider this to be the single greatest PPV ever, not just WWF/E, and not just WM. Can it hold up?

Match 1 - Matt Hardy Vs Rey Mysterio - Bossy sprint here for the Cruiserweight title! They get under 6 minutes, and manage to throw in some nice storytelling, a fast pace, great action (all looks nice and smooth too, no botches which is impressive given some of the things they were doing and the speed they did it in) and a screwy finish to get the heel (Matt) some heat and set up to a great rematch (which happened on SD afterwards, and was awesome). They did more in under 6 minutes than most guys could do in 15. Very impressive, and a match I've always loved. ***1/2.

Match 2 - The Undertaker Vs The Big Show & A-Train - This was originally scheduled to be a tag team contest, with Nathan Jones as ‘Taker’s tag partner. However, it was decided before the event that Jones wasn’t ready yet, so he was “taken out” during a backstage segment on Heat before the show. The match came about during a feud between The Undertaker and The Big Show. After the HIAC match at No Mercy 2002 between Lesnar and Undertaker, Big Show attacked The Undertaker and threw him off the stage, putting him out of action until the Royal Rumble. At No Way Out, they had a one on one match, and A-Train got involved. Nathan Jones was a new Smackdown superstar, and on TV The Undertaker had taken him under his wing, so he began to help out the Dead Man against the 2 giants. Of course, all of that was pointless anyway, since The Undertaker would go alone against them anyway . Big Show and A-Train try to use the numbers game to take the early advantage, but ‘Taker is a wise old veteran and knows exactly what he needs to do. He even manages to hit a Chokeslam in the first minute of the match! A-Train is the victim of the move, and Show prevents the 3 count by pulling him out. Pretty funny hearing A-Train, a monstrous man in his own right, telling Big Show to “get him!” because he was unable to . Like I said, The Undertaker knows exactly what he needs to do in this match, so he is trying to end this one as quick as possible. Unfortunately, Show and A-Train are able to get the better of him eventually, and so the beat down of the Dead Man begins. ‘Taker tries to lock in a couple of submission holds in hopes of getting a quick tap out instead of a pin, which can be broken up easier. Show and A-Train decide that a submission victory might be a good idea too, and begin to take turns at locking in an abdominal stretch, cheating in the process. A-Train makes the mistake of getting cocky, and telling ‘Taker that he “ain’t so bad”, and even goes as far as to slap him in the face. This just pisses Big Evil off, and he starts a nice little come back. Show comes in to break up another pin attempt, and ‘Taker has had enough of the constant 2 on 1 attacks, so he just goes punch crazy, and eventually finds himself dominating his 2 opponents! Good fun! Show and A-Train again get the upper hand, with Show hitting his Chokeslam. Before he can go for a cover though, he runs out of the ring to meet Nathan Jones on the rampway! Jones levels Show with an awesome looking spinning kick, and then helps ‘Taker set up A-Train for a Tombstone, and the win! This match is a lot of fun, no doubt about that. It’s a very nicely worked handicap match too, but doesn’t really go beyond the basics of the handicap match formula, which stops it being a better match. That being said, it’s still a good match, and something I can easily sit through any time. **3/4.

Match 3 - Victoria Vs Trish Stratus Vs Jazz - Muuuuch better than last year's triple threat. The dynamic of two heels and a babyface works better than 2 babyfaces and a heel tbh. As much as I like LITA she is a little sloppy in the ring lol, so with someone like Victoria in her place for this match, there is much less awkward looking spots and shitty looking moves lol. Stevie Richards is on the outside too to add a little to the match. He's Victoria's bitch. He ends up smacking himself in the head with a chair and taking a Bulldog from Trish. Victoria runs full speed into a Chick Kick and we gots our self a new women's champion! Good diva match by WWE standards. **.

Rock cuts a promo. And I watch it. What is going on you think? Well, this happens to be quite possibly the best Rock promo ever. Not saying much I know, but I do really like it.

Match 4 - Team Angle Vs Los Guerreros Vs Rhyno & Chris Benoit - Tag titles time baby! Plenty of talent in this match (and Chavo Guerrero Jr). I liked the team of Benoit and Rhyno, especially for WM. Both guys missed last year's WM with neck injuries, so it was cool for them to team together at this WM after recovering. Some great hard hitting action in this one, mainly with Eddie and Benoit when they go at it. Man, crazy to think they are both the main champions at the end of next year's WM! Benoit launching Eddie into the air and catching him in a Crossface is SICK in the most awesome way possible. Rhyno hits quite possibly the best GORES ever during this match, and unfortunately it's his GORE that ends the match... for the tag champs Team Angle. Huge fan of this. ***3/4.

Match 5 - Chris Jericho Vs Shawn Michaels - HBK's first WM since 1998! Great story to the match going in, playing on real life, with Jericho having emulated and idolised Shawn growing up and when he first got into the business. But now Jericho wants to be the first Chris Jericho and wants to be bigger and better than HBK ever was. I like that this feud began building as far back as November 2002 (as far as I can remember) with the Elimination Chamber match at Survivor Series. Remember when they would build up feuds for WM over the space of a few months? Instead nowadays we get fatal four way matches 4 weeks before WM to decide who takes on the fucking STREAK. Start of the match is just basic wrestling holds and exchanges. Both are out to prove something here; Jericho wants to prove he's better, and HBK wants to prove he's still as good as he ever was. Some fun little things like HBK laying across the ropes to anger Jericho and showing that he can still be a cocky little bastard when he wants to be. Eventually Jericho gets a chance to work over the back of Shawn, and as we all know the back is what kept HBK out of wrestling since WM 14 in 1998. Nothing noteworthy from Jericho in all honesty, but things really start to pick up when Jericho gets cocky from being in control and starts emulating HBK's move set, which drives HBK to make comebacks and show that he is still the best at doing those particular moves. The longer the match goes, the more HBK begins to feel like his old self, but Jericho seems to have a counter for just about anything Shawn can throw at him, so in the end a good old fashioned roll up finishes off Jericho, and HBK wins one more time at WM! Really good match overall. Some great storytelling and great action, with Jericho putting on a great performance, really having his first big WM match (let's face it, triple threat at WM 2000 sucked, he was only in a short opener at WM 17, then although he was in the main event last year defending the title, his match was overshadowed to hell and the match blew too). Jericho hugging it out with Shawn at the end then kicking him in the balls was awesome. ****1/4.

GOLDBERG IS COMING! AND SO ARE LOTS OF PERVES WITH THE MILLER LITE CAT FIGHT GIRLS AND TORRIE WILSON AND STACY IN BED. They took the tag titles match off the card for that crap.

Match 6 - Triple H Vs Booker T - WHC match time. Apparently the build up to this was all about race, and how HHH didn't think a black guy like Booker could be world champ. I swear I never thought any of this was race related back in the day. I just assumed HHH thought what I thought; that Booker shouldn't be world champion because he's fucking terrible! That being said, if there was ever a time for Booker to become world champ, it was here and now (maybe we could have been saved from the King Booker crap in 06. Imagine no King Booker as World Champ on SD 06... but instead someone GOOD. Oh god, I love SD 06 as it is, but if they had a great world champ that year? *day dreams about the potential awesomeness of that*). Referee Nick Partrick. Ric Flair on the outside. Booker T in the match. World Heavyweight Title on the line. This screams WCW all over. HHH's entire 2003 was spent with him sucking 99% of the time and burying any WCW talent he came into contact with lol. Match revolves around Booker T trying to prove to the world and to HHH that he IS worthy of being a world champion. He is constantly fighting back from everything HHH throws at him, never really allowing HHH to get in full control until later in the match. This forces HHH to resort to things he usually wouldn't do, including coming off the top rope, where Booker counters with a kick (ended up looking kinda like Booker hit a SCM lol). So with Booker T being able to come back and counter everything, Flair has to get involved to cause the unfair advantage. Using the steel steps he injures Booker's knee, and now HHH can work over the leg and wear down his challenger. GIVE UP YOU DAMN FOOL! Flair on the outside is awesome. Crowd are pretty fucking DEAD for anything HHH does, but absolutely explode when Booker does anything. It's like they all kinda EXPECTED Booker T to win so they bought into any pin attempt from him. And with how the build up went I guess I can't blame them, even if I never for a second wanted him to win, or really thought it would (for the reasons that everyone else though he would, anyway). Lawler is awesome on commentary btw (shocking I know, he sucked pretty much since he returned after Survivor Series in 01). His jabs at Booker's criminal background is awesome. HOUSTON HANGOVER! How many times did Booker do that in WWE? I remember him doing it to Big Show (Vengeance 02?), and then here. Any other times? Booker sells the leg tremendously, which leads into the finish. He tries to capitalise after the Houston Hangover, but just collapses and gets Pedigreed. HHH takes about 20 seconds to cover due to the fact he just took the Houston Hangover, and this one is over. Ask a Booker T fan about that and they'll claim there was about a minute between the Pedigree and the cover lol. I always liked this match. Great stuff. Booker looked better here than he EVER (and I seriously mean that) did in his entire career. His best match ever not including large multi-man matches (where he was never a major part in those matches getting high ratings). ***3/4.

Match 7 - Vince McMahon Vs Hulk Hogan - Great build to this match, with plenty of genuine personal issues between them. It was a match people wanted to see. And then it happened. And it lasted 20 minutes. And I fucking hated it. BUT I hated Flair/Vince from the 02 RR, then when I watched it for my RR reviews a few months ago, I ended up loving it. Everyone else seems to love this match, so will my opinion change like Flair/Vince? Honestly I hope so because I don't want to have sat through this only to still hate it lol. Worst spear/double leg take down from Hogan at the start, followed by some awful fucking punches lol. Whole thing is pretty dull until about half way in when Hogan decks McMahon with a chair and proceeds to beat the fuck out of him. LOL, highlight is poor old Hugo Savinovich getting decked with a chair and busted open too, when Vince ducks a chair shot. More chair shots. Both guys bleeding. Leg drop off a ladder through a table. Steel pipe comes out and we get that AWESOME visual of a crazy McMahon with blood pouring down his face as he raises up from the ring apron. PIPER! ROWDY RODDY PIPER!!! FINALLY, SOMETHING TO MAKE THIS MATCH INTERESTING! Teases hitting McMahon with the pipe, but he decks Hogan and we all saw it coming light years away. Hulk up, leg drop, win for Hogan. This is still shite. They could have condensed this into 5 minutes. Start with the chair shots, do the table spot, bring out the pipe, then Piper, then do the finish. 1/2*.

Match 8 - The Rock Vs Steve Austin - Third time at WM. Austin won the last 2 matches, now Rock is back from Hollywood because he has unfinished business. He's done everything else, now all he has to do is beat Austin at WM before he can fully leave for Hollywood. Video package has Limp Bizkit, and is really good, though not quite on the level of WM 17. Austin is out to destroy Rock right from the start. He doesn't NEED to beat Rock like Rock NEEDS to beat him, it's more of a case of he WANTS to beat Rock to prevent Rock from beating him. Some sweet chop blocks from Rock send Austin crashing down, and Rock begins to work over the Rattlesnake. He even pulls out a Sharpshooter, nice call back spot from their previous WM match (or at least it can be viewed that way). Rock is feeling confident now, so he puts on Austin's vest to add insult to injury, but it just seems to anger Austin. ROCK BOTTOM BY AUSTIN, WHILE ROCK IS WEARING AUSTIN'S VEST. STUNNER BY ROCK WHILE WEARING AUSTIN'S VEST. Match turns into a giant finishing stretch from here, with plenty of finisher kick outs, but unlike a lot of matches these days it makes sense given the story. 3 Rock Bottoms from The Rock is what finally puts Austin down. Just like it took 3 matches at WM for Rock to finally win. All goes back to the great promo Rock cut earlier in the night. "The only thing that matters, everyone remembers... is ACT 3", and that is what this match is. Act 3. Where Rock finally wins, and does it with 3 Rock Bottoms, but the first two don't matter because everyone just remembers the final one that puts Austin away. Just a wonderfully simple story told in a great way combined with a great match to begin with. And while we didn't know it at the time, this would also be Austin's last match. Should have been Rock's too tbh, because he didn't do shit worth mentioning following this. Absolutely nothing he's done has even come remotely close to being as good as this. I'm a bigger fan of this match than most people, and even on this watch, I'd place it ahead of their WM 17 match. ****1/2. 

Match 9 - Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - The match that almost never happened. Angle's neck was fucked going into WM, and nobody was sure if the match could happen. Remember the match on SD where they did the Eric Angle switch? Originally they were going to put the title on Lesnar there (fuck knows who would have been his WM opponent). But Angle agreed to wrestle at WM and then go for neck surgery, and thus this match was still able to take place. I was hyped as fuck for this one back in the day. Haven't seen it in a while either so I'm looking forward to it again. Their SummerSlam match is a ***** match imo, and their Iron Man is probably the best Iron Man match ever (Rude/Steamboat comes close). These two had great chemistry all stemming from their competitive nature due to their amateur wrestling backgrounds. Basic mat stuff in the beginning as both men use their amateur backgrounds to try and gain control and prove who the better WRESTLER is. Ends up being a stalemate so out come the GERMAN'S and Lesnar takes them better than guys half his size. Fucking LOVE the one into the turnbuckle; works perfectly with Lesnar having injured ribs, giving Angle something to focus on. Lesnar is still a fucking BEAST though and keeps fighting back and using his power when he can, but Angle continues to try and wear down his young challenger using those injured ribs to his advantage. Angle tries everything he can to keep Lesnar down, including the deadly Ankle Lock, but nothing is going to derail the next big thing tonight. F-5! Angle kicks out, so Lesnar hits another... but doesn't go for a cover. Instead Lesnar tries for a WM moment... SHOOTING STAR PRESS! And he lands on his head. OUCH. Great visual, and a crazy moment that will forever be remembered at WM... but damn, in the words of Tazz "HOW IS LESNAR NOT DEAD?". Lesnar managed to get another F-5 in, and he becomes the new WWE champion! Thought this was mostly really fucking good, but the finish falls flat (on its head...) after the botched SSP unfortunately. Doesn't affect my opinion on the match too much, but enough to lower my old rating just a little bit. Still, a great main event for WM. ****.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Great American Bash 1988


_NWA Tag Team Championship Match:_
*Sting and Nikita Koloff vs. Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard(c) w/JJ Dillon*

After attempting to watch Wrestlemania IV this felt like it was the greatest thing ever. I love watching Arn and Tully get beat up. It’s amazing how long they take a beating and how good they look Koloff and Sting look. One of my favorite things that Arn Anderson does is when Tully is in the ring for a long time getting his ass kicked and he finally makes a tag to Arn and Arn gets pumped up for like a second and the has this horrible realization that he’s going to get his ass kicked. He then proceeds to get his ass kicked and it’s amazing. 

Tully and Arn are just so great to watch because they’re smart. Yeah they get the shit kicked out of them for a long time and then they finally use their brains and take control of the match. The second they started getting in offense they isolated Koloff and targeted an arm. It wasn’t anything amazing but they let Koloff get in some offense from time to time and the crowd was just eating it up. This is now the third show I’ve watched that started with a time limit draw but I wasn’t annoyed at all. In fact I doubted that this actually went 20 minutes until I saw how far along I was. The ending was nerve wracking and I loved that I found myself hoping for the big win from Sting and Koloff when I was watching a match that took place a couple years before I was even born. The only draw back was that I didn’t enjoy it when Sting and Koloff slowed the pace when they were on offense. I get what they were trying to do but I would rather see them just kick a ton of ass for 5 minutes then see them slowly control the match for 10. Take away that rough patch and this was a classic, even with that part this is still a great match.
******


_United States Tag Team Championship Match:_
*The Midnight Express w/Jim Cornette Locked in a Cage While Wearing a Straightjacket vs. The Fantastics(c)*

It was refreshing to see the heel team look strong in a match. Things started at practically 50/50 split as far as the offense with and the teams meshed well. There was a lot of “flashy” (considering the time period) offense early on in the match. I’ve never seen the Fantastics wrestle before and while I won’t call them a great team they were certainly good enough to have a great match with the Midnight Express. What I really liked about the control segment as that Eaton and Lane didn’t have to resort to cheating to take control of the match. They actually looked strong early on when they were able to take control. They eventually had to resort to cheating as the match wore on but I didn’t think it was anything too extreme until the very end of the match. 

It seemed like starting the show with back to back tag matches would be a bad idea but they kept this different from the opener to make it work. The pacing was quick and I liked that it was pretty evenly matched. Not as good as the opener but still really good. I used to joke about how all the tag matches from this period were the same but I’m really becoming a huge fan of the Midnight Express.
****½ *


_Tower of Doom_
*Ron and Jimmy Garvin, The Road Warriors, and Steve Williams vs. Kevin Sullivan, Mike Rotundo, Ivan Koloff, Russian Assassin, and Al Perez*

The match took a while to get going as Tommy Young was the ref at the top of this cage and he appeared to be terrified of heights. In theory this should be a great match because of all the strategy involved. The match was in a triple cage and you won when your entire team escaped. You started at the top and every 2 minutes a guy from each team would enter the match. The other thing was that you could move down in levels but there was no real way to go up. Now just describing the match there are all sorts of interesting ways that this could be worked with keeping guys on the top level, trying to stack guys on certain levels, leaving someone to guard the door. All sorts of interesting ways to work the match. But they didn’t do any of that and everyone just tried to escape as quickly as possible. It was boring and they acted like idiots in regards to how they worked it. Horrible.
*¼**


_United States Championship Match:_
*Dusty Rhodes vs. Barry Windham(c) w/JJ Dillon* 

It would appear that the terrible Tower of Doom was just an outlier on this card. Dusty comes out swinging in this match and he was doing things that he normally didn’t do. A top rope cross body from Dusty was not something I was expecting. The beatdown that Dusty delivered was a blast to watch as Windham sold for him really well and while he was the heel he wasn’t willing to do something like walk away from the match because he really wanted to beat Dusty. Once Windham locked in the claw I really became invested in the match. I’m not sure why but I really thought there was a good chance that he was going to beat Dusty clean with it. Of course you can’t really expect a clean finish here. The beginning was fun and the end was nerve racking. I would have liked to see a little more offense from Windham as I feel like all he did was The Claw but even with him not getting in offense the match really enjoyable. 
****½ *


_NWA Championship Match:_
*Ric Flair(c) w/JJ Dillon vs. Lex Luger*

I was fooled, I’m not sure why I was fooled but I was. This was the fourth championship match of the night and in the other 3 the faces had been screwed out of the title. Naturally all the disappointment early was to make this moment be great right? This wasn’t even wrestled like a lot of Flair’s defenses. You still had those great moments where it looked Flair was in trouble but you didn’t feel like he was totally screwed right from the start. He got in a decent amount of offense and it he looked like he could hang with Luger. Say what you want about Luger but the guy can wrestle against Flair. He found the right medium between looking like a monster and still selling some of Flair’s offense. 

The match was really entertaining with Flair being Flair and wrestling the type of opponent that he was made for. The finishing stretch was pretty great because it really did feel like there was going to be a title change. I love the feeling when the crowd thinks they are going to see something special and you also feel like you are going to see something special. I understand that you have to expect bad finishes like this but at least have it make sense. The match was stopped because of Luger bleeding too much. Except he was hardly bleeding, it was really minor cut that he suffered from. I also couldn’t help but feel bad for the fans who now for the 4th time in 4 matches saw the face get screwed out of a title. A screwy finish is one thing but a screwy finish that makes no sense is so much worse. It just leaves a sour taste in your mouth after seeing such a great match.
****¾*​

Great show. 4 matches were either really good or great. I just wish the Tower of Doom hadn't been total shit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Another House Show from me: 

*Sting & Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair & Steven Regal (Munich House Show 3.16.1994)*

x1kg0fp


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie vs Benoit from Vengeance as your third best PPV match of 2003. 8*D

Oh Cal...

I got about half of the Vengeance 2003 PPV WAY over the match. :lmao _(that's what makes this running gag funny, plus I just read your review so PLUG)_

oh shoot. just realized you dropped on Brock vs Angle from SummerSlam a tad. No longer _perfect_, eh?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, no longer a perfect ***** match but still great.

Fook you for hating on that Benoit/Eddie match. AND THEY SAY *I* DON'T HAVE A SOUL!!!

I get the lovely task of moving on to 2004 PPV next. Magical. At least now I'll force myself to sit through the Backlash triple threat. Haven't been able to finish the match on any of my attempts to re-watch it over the last... 6 or so years :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm too busy preferring Undertaker vs Cena. :hayley4

I can actually understand that about the Backlash triple threat. It's got a history of dragging. Armageddon 2004 four way still does this to me, btw. Mediocre and wank. You don't care until Taker & Eddie duke it out. Then that's over and back to not caring. But good luck w/that PPV, btw. :hayden3

Do yourself a favor and NO every La Resistance tag on PPV from 2004.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I shall keep that in mind lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Realized you're going to have to sit through Royal Rumble 2004 soon. 

:lmao my GOD at this year for PPVs.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No I'm not . Done RR and WM reviews already.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

C'mon Cal, Brock/Angle mania that high :lelbron, there are a couple Eva Marie matches better 

Nice write up for Mania 19


Edit: Could I get some Goldberg NON squash recs ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

RR 2004 is worth it just for the Rumble itself which is about half of the event anyways.

Backlash triple threat is glorious. I hooked the computer to the TV with a HDMI a few days ago and watched Orton/Foley and the three way back to back. Fully HD fresh off the WWE Network and it was a wonderful experience. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS said:


> Edit: Could I get some Goldberg NON squash recs ?


Sting - Nitro 1998
DDP - Halloween Havoc 1998
Steiner - Fall Brawl 2000
Jericho - Bad Blood 2003
EC 2003

Maybe the Taser match with Hall from Souled out 1999.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I second skipping all la resistance matches, fucking shitty matches all year long 

What ppv are you starting with for 2004? I assume you'll be saving Backlash for the end as that and NWO are the better ppvs of hte year


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

2003 PPV Matches of the Year:

1. Brock/Angle SS ****1/2
2. Jericho/Michaels WM 19 ****1/2
3. Eddie/Benoit Vengeance ****1/2
4. Austin/Rocky WM 19 ****1/4
5. Rey/Tajiri NM ****1/4

If we were including TV matches, the Brock/Angle Ironman would be #2 and Eddie/Tajiri vs WGTT (the first SD match) would be #3.

Just watched Michaels/Jericho GAB 2008. Have to say, I loved it this time. Easily supplants JD as my favorite of the feud. ****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No idea which show I'm gonna start with. As far as ending... thinking maybe SummerSlam or Survivor Series. Those are the two shows that stick out to me as having TWO great matches. Can't say the same for the rest based on memory .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jericho/Michaels GAB 2008 is a beauty. Couldn't have gone any better. I still like JD 08 more, but they're both special. Our good friend Jack Evans 187 did a real nice review of the JD match.

Orton's 2011 rules. Dude had a killer match with David Otunga. Not even the man they call Jheri can criticize Orton's 2011.

Cjack, you forgot about Benoit/Lesnar. Awesome job once again, Cal. Can't wait to see how you somehow justify liking Taker/Dudley Boys from GAB 2004 :side:

Great American Bash 1988 looks like a good show minus that comical Tower of Doom match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I already don't hate Undertaker/Dudleys :side:. So won't be hard.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Jericho/Michaels GAB 2008 is a beauty. Couldn't have gone any better. I still like JD 08 more, but they're both special. Our good friend Jack Evans 187 did a real nice review of the JD match.
> 
> Orton's 2011 rules. Dude had a killer match with David Otunga. Not even the man they call Jheri can criticize Orton's 2011.
> 
> ...



fpalm

The AMAZING part of me forgetting Benoit/Lesnar is that I JUST FREAKING WATCHED IT ON THURSDAY. Christ. Thanks to C2D for uploading it on YouTube 

1. Angle/Lesnar SS
2. Benoit/Lesnar SD
3. Angle/Lesnar IM
4. Eddie/Tajiri vs WGTT SD


Would be the correct order for 2003 MotY. Lol at not one single RAW wrestler making the top 4. :mark: at Lesnr dominating the top 3.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Shawn Michaels vs Marty Jannetty Handheld House Show - (Reno, NV – 1.23.93) *

Jannetty said in a shoot interview, he considered this his best match. Ill upload tomorrow.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I already don't hate Undertaker/Dudleys :side:. So won't be hard.


Shockingly enough, as DUD happy as I can get, I would not give a DUD to that match. Still not good, but Bubba Ray was not too bad in the match and Undertaker's offense was kinda fun. Heyman was also hilarious. But yeah, somehow I don't hate it, nor do I dislike Smackdown in 2004 :side:. Can't wait for C2D to crush me with criticism.

I guess I can't really criticize Cal for liking universally hated Undertaker matches. I do the same with GOAT. Somehow I found more value and entertainment in Punk/Jericho from Payback than from Flair/Wahoo or Warrior/Savage.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> fpalm
> 
> The AMAZING part of me forgetting Benoit/Lesnar is that I JUST FREAKING WATCHED IT ON THURSDAY. Christ. Thanks to C2D for uploading it on YouTube


Funny thing is, that video is starting to gain some publicity on youtube. Views have gone up to 50k and it's appearing on the sidebar as a video suggestion all the time, including videos uploaded by WWE. :lol

Sucks my other account got suspended. My Mysterio/Orton upload had over half a million views and one Raw episode went over 100k.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Shockingly enough, as DUD happy as I can get, I would not give a DUD to that match. Still not good, but Bubba Ray was not too bad in the match and Undertaker's offense was kinda fun. Heyman was also hilarious. But yeah, somehow I don't hate it, nor do I dislike Smackdown in 2004 :side:. Can't wait for C2D to crush me with criticism.


Nah, I wont crush anyone with criticism if they say something good about 2004, even if it's the bad side of it. (unless it's HBK/HHH from Bad Blood )

I simply adore that year so much, I wish I had a time machine to relive it again. Not just from a wrestling perspective, but my own life in that year too - this time with WWE added to the mix.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

As flawed as 2003 and 2004 may be, I would relive those days whenever given the chance. Half of my fourth grade class would always come over to each others' houses to watch PPVs. And since we were all Chicagoans, we had a superb eye for talent; that means tons and tons of love for Benoit, Eddie, Rey, and Undertaker, and infinite hate for the HHH/HBK HIAC match. Things couldn't have possibly gone wrong...until 2005 happened :cena2 :batista2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It sucks that the era of Benoit/Eddie was so short lived. 2004 and 2006 are only two years apart but when you compare them, it's like night and day. In 06, Benoit is dropped from main eventing completely, Orton has moved solo onto Smackdown, Evolution is finished, Cena, Edge and Batista are top guys, Jericho is gone, Angle is not as prominent, Eddie is dead and Triple H's era of "reign of terrors" is done. Oh and Eugene is an irrelevant jobber that makes one or two appearances every 3 months.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Funny thing is, that video is starting to gain some publicity on youtube. Views have gone up to 50k and it's appearing on the sidebar as a video suggestion all the time, including videos uploaded by WWE. :lol
> 
> Sucks my other account got suspended. My Mysterio/Orton upload had over half a million views and one Raw episode went over 100k.
> 
> ...



I'm responsible for ATLEAST 4-5 of those views :side:



funnyfaces1 said:


> As flawed as 2003 and 2004 may be, I would relive those days whenever given the chance. Half of my fourth grade class would always come over to each others' houses to watch PPVs. And since we were all Chicagoans, we had a superb eye for talent; that means tons and tons of love for Benoit, Eddie, Rey, and Undertaker, and infinite hate for the HHH/HBK HIAC match. Things couldn't have possibly gone wrong...until 2005 happened :cena2 :batista2


When I was in 4th grade, the nWo Wolfpack was the cool thing to rep. I might have been too cheap to buy the new red and black shirt, and just colored my white and black in with red sharpie :side:


Is Benoit/MENG GAB 97' as good as their Slamboree match?

Also: I was bored at work on Thursdsy, so I decided to listen to the Jericho Podcast with The Miz. I learned something that made me love Benoit more than I already do: Benoit got pissed at The Miz for eating food near his gear bag, so he chewed his ass out and kicked him out of the locker room for 6 months. Miz had to get dressed in the janitors closet the entire time :lmao


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watched the 2014 Rumble match today. Besides the crowd being hot/shitting on people that may or may not have deserved it, it's super fun. From the Punk/Rollins start, to the Cesaro/Sheamus/Cesaro hitting everyone with uppercuts, Cesaro swinging Rollins 30 times, Sheamus doing his thing against the Shield, the entire Shield story, Kofi doing his annual "spot", Nash (fuck it, seeing Nash and hearing the NWO theme was cool), Reigns getting cheered and frankly outshining Batista in the final two, and a ton more stuff, it's a pretty enjoyable Rumble match. 

Also, Cal made me want to watch Vengeance 2003. Guess I'll do that this week.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> I don't think anybody actually cared about anything else besides Rock & Cena there,


Hogan/Andre drew a 15.2 rating......



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Is Benoit/MENG GAB 97' as good as their Slamboree match?


Probably not but it's still Benoit/Meng. Watch Sting/Meng GAB 95 as well btw.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Probably not but it's still Benoit/Meng. Watch Sting/Meng GAB 95 as well btw.


Point taken. Gonna watch both now.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So we are all fans of Rikishi, right? Going through 2000 and I honestly don't remember him being so mobile and agile. How many of us also somewhat enjoyed Test? He had a really good move set and he was an impressive athlete at his size. But let's all agree that Faarooq is kinda boring in the ring.

I reviewed Benoit/Meng nearly a year ago. I recall liking their GAB match the least. It dragged on a bit too much and Meng's offense wasn't as interesting as it should have been. Despite that, it was still a real good match. Just not as good as the Germany match or the Slamboree match.






If you guys want something fun to watch that doesn't take much time and includes PERRY SATURN, go watch this gem.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WCW Ron Simmons at his best is really quite good. I'm betting the APA were really fun squash guys but until I actively seek those out I'm not a fan. pre-APA Faarooq I don't remember liking or disliking. I'm always surprised by much of a bumper Test is.


and how could anybody not like the Kish.



Fuck I don't think I ever watch the Germany match despite me finding it. FWIW Rey/Malenko on that same card is awesome and I think by far the best match they had together.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I liked Test a ton. The Summerslam 2001 (Summerslam, right?) with Edge is pretty nice, and the Street Fight with Shane is pretty awesome. I remember in an interview with Triple H (don't remember when and where) where he was asked who could have been bigger but didn't reach his full potential and Trips' answer was Test.

Edit: Maybe it was on Off the Record with that guy in Canada (don't remember his name). Landsberg?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> WCW Ron Simmons at his best is really quite good. I'm betting the APA were really fun squash guys but until I actively seek those out I'm not a fan. pre-APA Faarooq I don't remember liking or disliking. I'm always surprised by much of a bumper Test is.
> 
> 
> and how could anybody not like the Kish.
> ...



Man you need to get on that Germany match, Hayley posted that in the Old School Discussion Thread MONTHS ago. Well worth the watch, but you don't need me to tell you that.

Just finished the GAB Benoit/MENG match. On the positive side, it's way more "Death Match-y" than the Slamboree match. They work the 10 count a lot more, whereas honestly, in the Slamboree match, it's pretty much just a normal wrestling match. That said, I think the Slamboree match is deficnelly better. They were on the right track, and it looked like in the first 5-10 min that they were gonna exceed the heights of Slamboree. However, it never quite gets there, and the last 3-5 minutes don't live up the hot start. Still darn good, and still definitely worth the watch. ***3/4 for GAB, ****1/4 for Slamboree and **** for Germany. And ***** for MENG in general.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Finished the Bruce Prichard shoot, fuck that was entertaining, just 6 hours of knowledge that was awesome. Recommend to all


----------



## JamesK (Oct 7, 2012)

Just saw a preview from the Ultimate Warrior's collection dvd...





Great video..The WWE did a good job letting him to make a shot at the Self Destruction DVD


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It's freaking astounding. Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho are neck-and-neck right now for wrestler of the year in 2000. Benoit specifically had one of the best IC title reigns ever. But wow. Forget Triple H. Forget Kurt Angle. These two Canadians do it better than the rest.

So we are in agreement that the two best IC title reigns are Savage's and Orton's, right?

Ziggler/Sheamus/Del Rio from Main Event was just as good as their 2012 match (****3/4*). The post-match promo between Zigger and Big E was good too. Really put over the title and both competitors. And Ziggler finally got his big win over the lesser skilled Sheamus to a resounding pop.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> It's freaking astounding. Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho are neck-and-neck right now for wrestler of the year in 2000. Benoit specifically had one of the best IC title reigns ever. But wow. Forget Triple H. Forget Kurt Angle. These two Canadians do it better than the rest.
> 
> So we are in agreement that the two best IC title reigns are Savage's and Orton's, right?



Savage is #1, Perfect is #2, Hart is #3 for best IC champs of all time. I'm not talking specifically match quality, but that does play a part. More, those 3 elevated the IC title to its highest point. Savage and Perfect set the stage, they made the belt into the work horse belt, the belt that goes to the guy that puts on the best, most entertaining matches, night in and night out. Then Hart took it to a whole nother level, even main eventing the second biggest show of the year, in an 80,000 seat stadium. That's unheard of. So yea, those three guys are the greatest IC champs ever. Orton, Jericho, and Benoit would follow somewhere afterwards, as would HBK and possibly Razor.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Orton's 2011 rules. Dude had a killer match with David Otunga. Not even the man they call Jheri can criticize Orton's 2011.


I don't care for it. All the matches I know I like were all made to be special b/c of his opponents. :hayden3

and that Otunga match sucks. Boring squash. Oh look he threw him into a Christmas tree. Ugh. Who cares. Otunga selling a punch from Big Show >>>

and Jericho vs Michaels vs GAB 2008 is bad.

Wait, did you try to call Sheamus as "lesser skilled" than Dolph Ziggler?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Shawn Michaels vs Marty Jannetty - Handheld House Show - (Reno, NV – 1.23.93)*

Jannetty said in a shoot interview, he considered this his best match. 

x1kml4f


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Sheamus is not 'lesser skilled' than Ziggler. I'm leaving.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bubz said:


> Sheamus is not 'lesser skilled' than Ziggler. I'm leaving.


Me too. I'll help push you out .

Watched the Signature Sounds documentary last night. Thought it was pretty good, Jim Johnston definitely deserved being highlighted on a DVD for his awesome work with wrestler theme songs and shit. Piano version of Undertaker's theme sounds fucking AWESOME. The "top 25 themes" they look at on the set were mostly pretty good (Cena's being in the top 5 was :lmao but he's a big star so I understand...), though them including the Prime Time Players theme was... odd and out of place. Mainly because its a pile of wank, but also it's about as memorable as... uhhh, that thing. I can't remember. But seriously, if I heard their theme song on the radio, firstly I wouldn't have a clue that it was a wrestler theme song, and secondly I'd think it was a pile of shit and I'd quickly change the channel. Very odd pick for the DVD set.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was Demolition's theme on there?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Shield/Wyatts-EC 14-****1/2

Pretty much epic on every level.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol @ Sheamus being less skilled than Ziggler. No surprise it's ff making that comment since he always has to use every opportunity possible to push his unpopular and flat out wrong opinions in here. 

I doubt this means a push for him, they just wanted their jobber ex-champion to put over Big E (second option since Christian got injured _again_) and that's what happened.

-------------------

On the subject of Orton 2011, I rewatched the Over the Limit match with Christian yesterday for the first time since last summer and it still holds up wonderfully. That punt/spear spot is a thing of beauty and excellent storytelling.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Nope.


Pfft. Don't want to know then.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Spoiler: King of the Ring 1999 review



*WWF King of the Ring 1999*​*Match 1: Quarter-final: Hardcore Holly vs. X-Pac **
Not much of a match as is typical with these KOTR PPV matches. Holly gives up a few minutes in when he bashes X-Pac in the head with a chair, getting himself disqualified. Holly tried to beat X-Pac down a bit more, Road Dogg came out for the save. I’m not really sure why. The DX members all turned on each other didn’t they?
*
Match 2: Quarter-final: Kane vs. Big Show **
I must admit this is kinda weird. This must have been a really interesting match in 1999. Today it’s not something you really want to see anymore. They have a nice brawl for the first couple of minutes with Kane even hitting an enzigiuri. Then there was a clumsy double boot, followed by a ref bump. Hardcore Holly immediately ran out with a chair because Big Show pushed a car on top of him on Raw. Didn’t work though and he is knocked out of the ring. Kane grabs Show around the throat. The ref is still out. He holds it. Holds it. Hoooolds it. Show appears to be out. Kane’s still holding him around the throat. Crowd is turning on this match, what are they doing? Finally Big Show comes back and fights out. Kane knocks out Show with a chair and the ref immediately comes to and counts the pin. Well that wasn’t very good. 

*Match 3: Quarter-final: Billy Gunn vs. Ken Shamrock *1/2*
Gunn is holding a tag title, that he stole from one of the Acolytes on Raw. Not sure why. Shamrock was beaten up on Heat by Steve Blackman and is bleeding from the mouth. Shamrock’s hurting internally so Gunn has the advantage early on. Shamrock tries to come back but Gunn hits a powerbomb. Shamrock is bleeding more and the ref stops the match. Well at least there was a bit of a story to this match. I’ll give it a bit extra for that.

*Match 4: Quarter-final: Road Dogg vs. Chyna ***
Chyna has control for much of this match with Triple H getting involved a couple of times. And look there’s a ref bump. Triple H hits Road Dogg with a chain or something but it only gets a two count. Road Dogg finally comes back with his signature punches and moves. Triple H tries to get involved again but HBK is out there and tells him to get out. Crowd loves it. Everybody’s distracted as CHyna goes for her favourite move, the low blow. But Road Dogg is wearing a cup and he gives her a pumphandle slam for the win. Finally a solid match on this show, from a match-up I least expected to be good.

*Match 5: The Brood (Edge & Christian) vs. The Hardy Boyz ***
This is a Number 1 Contender’s match for the tag team titles. Fun early tag team match from these two teams who we all know will go on to greatness. A great spot where they go for Poetry in Motion but Edge gets on to the second rope spears Jeff right out of the air. Shortly after, Gangrel goes to spit blood in Matt’s face but accidentally blinds Edge. Matt finishes it off with the Twist of Fate. The crowd was getting into that so it’s a shame the match couldn’t go longer. Still a decent match for the 5 or so minutes they got.

Some of that time of course went to Vince McMahon announcing the match would be off because Shane was injured by Shamrock on Heat. HBK came out and said nope. Vince gets a replacement partner. Fine.

*Match 6: Semi-final: Kane vs. Billy Gunn **
Fairly dull match going here. Gunn grabs a chair and Big Show comes down. Oh look the ref is down. Show takes the chair from Gunn and hits Kane in the head with it as payback for the earlier match. Gunn pins him and wins. Felt like filler. And this is supposed to be a tournament semi-final. I feel like Gunn is supposed to look good by going over Kane but it doesn’t seem to be working.

*Match 7: Semi-final: Road Dogg vs. X-Pac **
Basic 3 minute match here with no heat and waning interest from the crowd. These two are still friends. X-Pac manages the win but seems to have a hurt shoulder or neck. They hug. I thought it would be better for the former New Age Outlaws to go at it considering their recent split was such a big deal. Right? Oh well. Another tournament match that just feels like filler.

*Match 8: WWF championship: The Undertaker (c) vs. The Rock ***1/2*
Straight away Undertaker hits the ref in the back of the head. Straight after that The Rock hits a Rock Bottom and pins Taker. Another ref comes out but is punched by Bearer. Taker hits a chokeslam and Rock kicks out. They take the fight up the aisle. They’re out of the ring for some time, but the ref isn’t counting. Finally they’re back in the ring and Undertaker remains in control. Back out and Rock tries to hit him in the head with a chair but Taker bounces it back with the ring bell. Bearer gets a cheap shot in with his shoe and laughs maniacally. Taker hits a DDT back in the ring for two. Rock comes back with a nice Samoan drop. Taker tries going for a tombstone but Rock hits a DDT of his own and gets two. Another ref bump. Bearer is covering a rag with ether, The Rock manages to grab it and uses it on Taker. Triple H comes out and hits a pedigree on The Rock. Taker covers and Rock kicks out. Taker hits a tombstone and that’s it. This was a pretty good and crazy brawl, but the ref bump was annoying. Wouldn’t have been so bad if there weren’t four ref bumps already in other matches. I’ll ignore that though as the work from both men was great and they put a lot in it.

*Match 9: KOTR Final: Billy Gunn vs. X-Pac ***
Gunn takes it to X-Pac for a while and X-Pac gets to make a comeback after hitting an X-Factor on Gunn while Gunn is swearing at the referee. X-Pac hits the Bronco Buster that he tried to hit earlier in the night but it doesn’t seem to be very over in North Carolina. Or maybe the crowd doesn’t care about this match, I don’t blame them. Anyway, Gunn turns it around and hits a fameasser from the top rope. Nice finish to a short, yet decent match. But the crowd doesn’t react very much. Whether Gunn was worthy of being King of the Ring or not is personal preference. Even Road Dogg would have been a better choice, and with that we could have had a more interesting final match.

*Match 10: Handicap ladder match for WWF ownership: Vince & Shane vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin ****
Well, it was supposed to be Shane, but because he’s injured, Vince gets a replacement, that replacement is... Steve Blackman. Okay. GTV pops up and Shane is with the Posse talking about how they fooled HBK and everybody else. HBK finds them and he needs to get to that ring now. HBK enters with Shane and Lawler is complaining, JR asks him if he lost his smile.

This turns out to be a pretty wild brawl. Shane puts in a good effort taking some hard bumps. He and Vince get thrown hard into the ladder structure in the entrance way, knocking it all down in a neat spot. Shane takes an elbow on the announce table from Austin off the ladder. Austin gets thrown off the ladder and bounces of the other announce table which looked painful. Shenanigans ensued as the briefcase containing the stocks was raised up as Austin went for it, but lowered again for the McMahons. Shane eventually managed to climb up and grab the briefcase, returning ownership of the WWF to the McMahons. Austin’s run as CEO is over. Really though this feels like an extended squash match. However, that’s probably how it should be right? Considering the McMahons aren’t wrestlers. It ends up being quite fun to watch the McMahons take some nasty bumps and just generally getting beat up by Austin, and that’s all it’s meant to be.

Overall this is not a good show at all. I won’t go much into storylines because most of it is dumb, particularly all the McMahon/Austin/Corporate Ministry/Higher Power stuff that either made no sense or was just set to hyper-speed where way too much was happening at once. I just focus more on the match quality. The title match and the ladder match are all that is worth watching. Leave the rest. The actual tournament this PPV is based around just kind of feels there as a way to fill the card with matches. It doesn’t feel important like it has in recent years. This sticks out even more for having a whole bunch of shitty matches to serve as the tournament. Capping it off with a just okay final match that nobody seems to care about at all. I don’t know if Billy Gunn really deserved it. In my opinion there were better options to go for including Kane or the Big Show. Hell if they had just gone with Gunn vs. Road Dogg in the final that would have been far more interesting and I would have been okay with Gunn winning. Regardless, I wouldn’t go out of my way to see the only two decent matches on the show. Just avoid this. *3/10*



Basically, don't bother. Only two matches are worth watching. Even then, don't go out of your way to see them. Kind of a crappy show really. 3/10


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> Finished the Bruce Prichard shoot, fuck that was entertaining, just 6 hours of knowledge that was awesome. Recommend to all


Good to hear. Have to watch it too at some point.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I can't criticize Orton's 2011, but I won't pretend I think it's that special either. Other than OTL I don't think I particularly care for any of the Christian matches that much. I thought the Henry title win was better than OTL anyway, and Orton was pretty fucking good in that match. It was Henry's title win and Randall made sure to make him look like as big and powerful a monster as possible. Probably my favourite Orton performance and match since 2006.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

For those who havn't seen it:

*Brock Lesnar (c) vs The Undertaker - Madison Square Garden, NYC - House Show - (20.09.2003) - Steel Cage Match*

x1kow2n


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> For those who havn't seen it:
> 
> *Brock Lesnar (c) vs The Undertaker - Madison Square Garden, NYC - House Show - (20.09.2003) - Steel Cage Match*
> 
> x1kow2n



:mark: :mark: :mark:

Is that as good as it sounds?!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

While you're at it, you should watch these two short matches that Yeah1993 pimped yesterday.



Spoiler: Benoit


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

I don't know if you guys like this match, but I think it was the best or second best in their series of matches.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I still have yet to even watch Orton/Christian from OTL, perhaps I shall watch it on the Network later.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Make sure to stay away from everything else from that PPV. Man, if it wasn't for GOAT GOATing in late June, 2011 could have been worse than that horrid 2010.

Does anyone else remember that really fun Taker vs. Big Show and Lesnar handicap match in 2003 where :heyman3 kept changing the rules?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I already watched everything on that show other then the 2 main event's :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2011?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> I still have yet to even watch Orton/Christian from OTL, perhaps I shall watch it on the Network later.


You are worst than me brother, even I've seen it  JK, yea Probably a top 2-3 Randell match everrr

I watched Rock/Hogan mania 18 btw, sensational


2011 was awesome, no one can tell me other wise


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SKINS said:


> You are worst than me brother, even I've seen it  JK, yea Probably a top 2-3 Randell match everrr
> 
> *I watched Rock/Hogan mania 18 btw, sensational*


:clap :clap :clap just thinking of that match get's me pumped.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2011 has its highs & lows. Like literal big time peaks & valleys. Same year that gave me a plethora of Punk goodies, Cody Rhodes glory, & Mark Henry brilliance also was the same year w/WM 27, Over The Limit, & Capitol Punishment in basically full succession. And then there is all that Michael Cole stuff. You can skip the segments, but he's still talking on all the matches...

I'm lost for topics right now so I'm sticking w/this.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

2011 had a real good set of PPVs. Elimination Chamber, Extreme Rules, and everything from MITB onward were all good-great-GOAT. Lots of good wrestling on all the shows and the title scene in the second half of the year was pretty good across the board. Drew McIntyre on Superstars was like Chris Masters on that same show the year before. Mark Henry had the second greatest WHC title reign ever, and Punk started the second greatest WWE title reign ever. Cody's IC title run was tremendous and Ziggler's was not too shabby either. That Ryder/Ziggler feud has to be in the top three for US Title feuds in the WWE. Air Boom ruled. Rock was still fresh and entertaining. Daniel Bryan's rise to champion was fun albeit kinda frustrating. Sheamus was still likable. Christian! Oh man, I could go on with this. Even The Miz had some good matches. R TRUTH! ALEX RILEY!

Yeah, 2011 was a year of highs and lows. But for me, the highs vastly outweighed the lows. Also brought me back to watching.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

William Murderface said:


> I still have yet to even watch Orton/Christian from OTL, perhaps I shall watch it on the Network later.


You should, it's brilliant. Top 3 match from 2011 for me imo along with Cena/Punk MITB and Christian/Del Rio Extreme Rules.

And even SKINS has seen it so no excuses not to watch it. 8*D


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Stopped reading at _"Rock was still fresh and entertaining"_

Don't care for Extreme Rules 2011 either. One match show. Mysterio vs Rhodes. Two PPVs in a row.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yep 2011 had its highs and lows just like every year, just its highs were amazing

-All the favs were killing it (Punk,Ziggler,Rhodes,Henry etc)
-Titles were important
- I came back to wrestling
- Storylines were interesting


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Maybe the major championships were important. United States...eh kind of. Dolph had a decent run w/it & then the whole Ryder fix, but it's not like WWE really put much thought there. Fans seemed to make the moment for the match much bigger than the company did. Only, the company didn't run w/it so after a few weeks it was back down to nothing.

Intercontinental had a crap year. Rhodes was just excelling in general, tbf. Glad they brought back the classic design w/the white trim. Biggest highlight for the strap. Or tied w/Rhodes winning it b/c I did & still love it. Glad the gimmick brought him success for the time. All the reigns before his though in that year :lmao

I think we should throw in Great Khali having two good matches as a positive here. They happened two weeks within each other. Lets celebrate. But honestly, they were good little matches. Felt "old school" to me when he was put up _(as a heel, that's why they worked)_ vs Sheamus & Orton.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Have you or your brother ever explained why 2010 was so good? And what other year do you like from the WWE besides 2001?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea, it probably doesn't compare too the importance of each belt of old, but it still seemed semi important than :lol Cody I'm not lying when I tell you IDK who holds the IC,US,Tags currently. But yea thought Ziggler US run was really really good, it was the genesis of the "show-off" character and he brought a "Hey if I'm the US champ, its the premier title on the show. Yea IC was useless until Cody had it, but I thought he had a decent run, still to this day dont understand why Show went over him at Mania event though I knew the angle was aiming towards that

lol I remember the Orton match, not the sheamus one


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've gone into detail about having a general sense of fun on the year. I know largely what stemmed this was b/c I wasn't able to watch much of the year as it was happening. So I'm always going to have this jolt of excitement when I remember my feeling discovering all the new changes throughout the year. Plus, ECW for the time it was around was quality, as was Smackdown for a good bit & SUPERSTARS. Suppose the only downer was RAW for a given night, but even then, there was Nexus at that tiny peak it had. And I was all about that angle. PPVs were eh off the top of my head, but that's plenty common for most calendar years.

I dunno. Maybe 2000. Even if some of those PPVs can carry over w/nostalgia fun at best and not much else. It's a year when a ton was cooking b/c of the popularity and things did feel actively better w/some of the talent that came over. All other years play off like the rest. One side can be filled w/good & the other; yikes. Kind of comment like this is loosely based when the brand split was instituted. RAW had 2004 & 2005. Smackdown had 2003 & 2006. Etc.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> You should, it's brilliant. Top 3 match from 2011 for me imo along with Cena/Punk MITB and Christian/Del Rio Extreme Rules.
> 
> And even SKINS has seen it so no excuses not to watch it. 8*D


Is SKINS the pinnacle of lagging on fantastic matches?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I dunno, Woolcock has yet to watch Cesaro/Zayn. That's worth than anything from skins.

YOU SUCK, WELSHY!!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saw this pimped as one of/the best RVD match:


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Me and Cody watched Kobashi vs Sasaki last night bama4


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

DAN KROFFAT/PHILIP LAFON! What a man. That match is real good (******).

Starbuck took forever to watch Ziggler/Del Rio, which is better than just about every Triple H match since...hmm. It's better than the Taker matches. Triple H didn't have that much going on in 2010 or 2009. I think it's better than the awesome Jeff Hardy match at No Mercy. Better than that great Orton LMS match. Good God, I think the last time Triple H had a match as good as that one was against Flair inside the steel cage, and I would say that they were both on that same high level.

What was the Misawa/Kawada match that Cody didn't like? Was it the one with the suspect arm selling? I think it was 6/23/94 or something.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

My chest still hurts.

And RVD vs Kroffat eh? Interesting.

Finally: Dammit, SI. But he watched some of Lockdown. He's lost his mind atm. The gentlemen cracked.

Yeah, 6/3/94. iirc it was knee/leg work that was placed in the middle was ultimately pointless. But I think I could be nit-picking on that occasion, tbf. Maybe trying heighten my agenda of preferring a latter bout in their career between 'em. Older & surlier the better.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> Me and Cody watched Kobashi vs Sasaki last night bama4


The 'chop battle' :yum:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> DAN KROFFAT/PHILIP LAFON! What a man. That match is real good (******).
> 
> Starbuck took forever to watch Ziggler/Del Rio, which is better than just about every Triple H match since...hmm. It's better than the Taker matches. Triple H didn't have that much going on in 2010 or 2009. I think it's better than the awesome Jeff Hardy match at No Mercy. Better than that great Orton LMS match. Good God, I think the last time Triple H had a match as good as that one was against Flair inside the steel cage, and I would say that they were both on that same high level.
> 
> What was the Misawa/Kawada match that Cody didn't like? Was it the one with the suspect arm selling? I think it was 6/23/94 or something.



I'm currently watching the Flair/Hunter Cage match, Flair just clobbered Hunter with the chair. I can assure you, without any shadow of doubt, that this match OWNS Ziggler/Del Rio PB. And you all know I love Ziggler and hate Hunter, so there ain't any bias involved. I consider this match second only to Tully/Magnum as the greatest cage match in history, and definitely the greatest in WWE History. It's just the best. You know what else makes it awesome? Joey Styles commentary, dude was GREAT, JR himself couldn't have done any better. I'd kill for Styles to get paired with Regal and become the new RAW commentary team, with Heyman being the heel color guy and Regal being neutral. And Cole, JBL, and Lawler can be taken out back and mercifully put in front of a firing squad.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BOB/SLAUGHTER > Flair/HHH as far as WWE cage matches go. Both matches are > Ziggy/Rio too.

What's that, Cody? WC watched some of fucking TNA LOCKDOWN but hasn't seen Cesaro/Zayn yet? FUCK THAT MOTHERFUCKING SHEEP SHAGGING CUNTY BASTARD PRICK WHORE. Even I haven't watched any TNA in about 3 weeks now.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The combination of Styles/Regal/Heyman sounds too good to be true. Who was it that disliked Joey Styles here? I remember that same person also not liking Matt Striker, so maybe that person knew nothing about good commentating :side:

When I went downstairs to get some Cocoa Pebbles berried), I decided on putting the cage match over Ziggler/ADR. With the way the WWE structures their cage matches, it is really hard to truly have a great one. Flair and Triple H however knocked it out of the park. I have three other cage matches in WWE history over it (Backlund/Slaughter, Punk/Hardy, Hardy/Edge), but that's still great company.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> What's that, Cody? WC watched some of fucking TNA LOCKDOWN but hasn't seen Cesaro/Zayn yet? FUCK THAT MOTHERFUCKING SHEEP SHAGGING CUNTY BASTARD PRICK WHORE. Even I haven't watched any TNA in about 3 weeks now.


At least there was Muta involved. Wait, I'm talking to you. Yeah, you're severely displeased. :troll

My advice is DON'T. Well, this week had a fun enough match. Nothing to go out of your way to see, but it's been the only thing from their TV product I haven't thought sucked, so there's that.



funnyfaces1 said:


> The combination of Styles/Regal/Heyman sounds too good to be true. Who was it that disliked Joey Styles here? I remember that same person also not liking Matt Striker, so maybe that person knew nothing about good commentating :side:


Hi.

Please, that teacher shit doesn't need to be mentioned.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HE WATCHED TNA AND A FUCKING MUTA MATCH?

WC can fuck off. I completely disown him from this point on until he gets his shit together.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bashes someone from not watching a Zayn match, but slams Muta at the same time. Scales are being tipped in too many directions.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Muta is shit though. I've written better matches than he's ever had when I did a short lived BTB years ago. AND I ONLY WROTE OUT THE FINISHES.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't make me spit mist in your face.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I told you already, I'm not interested in you in THAT way. Jebus, keep it in your pants man...


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

William Murderface said:


> Is SKINS the pinnacle of lagging on fantastic matches?


Idk, but I know there's been a few occasions in the past where a discussion on great match has taken place and SKINS would mention how he hasn't seen the match... and I think it's sort of caught on.. because even SKINS recognizes it now.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> Idk, but I know there's been a few occasions in the past where a discussion on great match has taken place and SKINS would mention how he hasn't seen the match... and I think it's sort of caught on.. because even SKINS recognizes it now.


Oh yea, there are many "big" match I havent seen, kinda closing the gap but its still weird, its actually odd what Ive seen vs. what I havent


Btw remember when me and you were the only ones at first upset w/ Ziggler/ADR payback because he lost and ppl were saying no it will lead to something more :lmao

Hope you have been keeping up w/ Eva on TD btw


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm the same, SKINS. There's so many "classics" that I've yet to see and whenever I say I haven't seen them, some doofuses try and say I'm not a real wrestling fan, whatever that means.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Muta is shit though. I've written better matches than he's ever had when I did a short lived BTB years ago. AND I ONLY WROTE OUT THE FINISHES.


That's it. This is it. I'm done. Through. It's over. I'm gone. Finished. Over. I will never work for you again. Look at you. You think you're an important man? Is that what you think? You are a laughing stock. You are a joke. These people are laughing at you. You're nothing! You have no brains, no ability, nothing! I quit!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

Costanza'ed.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Idk, but I know there's been a few occasions in the past where a discussion on great match has taken place and SKINS would mention how he hasn't seen the match... and I think it's sort of caught on.. because even SKINS recognizes it now.


Well I will be sure to watch the match tonight haha.

Don't wanna be the new SKINS :side:


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

SKINS said:


> Oh yea, there are many "big" match I havent seen, kinda closing the gap but its still weird, its actually odd what Ive seen vs. what I havent


Because of a break from wrestling? That's what it is for most. I've watched the last 10 years of wrestling and I've seen pretty much since every big match during that time period. But there's many classic old matches I haven't seen, due to me only discovering wrestling in 2003. And while I've seen some big matches from The Attitude Era, I haven't seen all of them, and before the Attitude Era I've barely seen anything. That's why you'll never see me in a discussion about great Bret Hart or Randy Savage matches for example. :lol 


SKINS said:


> Btw remember when me and you were the only ones at first upset w/ Ziggler/ADR payback because he lost and ppl were saying no it will lead to something more :lmao


Yeah.. :side:


SKINS said:


> Hope you have been keeping up w/ Eva on TD btw


I haven't actually. :side: How many episodes have I missed since TD started back up?



William Murderface said:


> Well I will be sure to watch the match tonight haha.
> 
> Don't wanna be the new SKINS :side:


(Y)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

lol I'm actually the polar opposite, started the same time as you in watching and took a break, thing is I dont like the attitude era, and loved the eras before it as many of my favorites (hbk,flair,perfect,savage,arn,taker,foley etc) so Ive seen most of the big matches there but not in the AE, THAT is why you see me rarely post anything when all these guys talk and review it :lol

I'm 100 % sure I wouldnt watch any AE if I was watching back then and solely wcw

TD is one episode #3 tonite, season been GOAT, most captivating show on TV will probably buy the box set


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Randomly watched Starrcade 1996 

Malenko/Dragon: ****
Hokuto/Medusa: **
Rey/Liger: ***3/4 
Jarett/Benoit: ***
Outsiders/Faces of fear: ***1/4(MENG :mark 
Eddie/DDP: ***1/2 
Luger/Giant: **
Hogan/Piper: DUD 

Pretty good show although the last 2 matches nearly ruined it for me, only good part of Luger/Giant was Sting and Hogan/Piper was atrocious outside of Hogan and Roddy's promos before the match backstage, the entrances were fun too. The opener I loved, pretty sure people will say I overrated it but I disagree, the rest of the matches par the average womens match were pretty good, Rey/Liger might be **** but IDK.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I need to watch season 2 of TD for Summer :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WCW in 1997 :mark:

STARRCADE 1996 :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I really need to start my own fecking WCW project. Im not one for TV Sets, i only have a couple, but i did recently grab Nitro 1996 and 1997 (and some of 1998). I do want to go through them plus the PPV's too. I have too many 'projects' ive yet to start lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Starrcae 96 ruled. And you severely underrated the opener. I would go an extra 3/4 of a star if I were you. Rey/Liger was sex, Eddie/DDP is underrated, Jarrett/Benoit was very good, and MENG! Can't wait to some day revisit 1996-1997 WCW.

I was one of those Ziggler fanatics that thought he would get big after the Ziggler/ADR Payback match. I will not admit that I was wrong though. Rather, the WWE should be the ones admitting their mistake.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

****3/4 for the opener? I thought I OVERRATED it , I liked it a lot but the first 5 minutes being a little boring brought my rating down a bit, would probably go ****1/4 or ****1/2 for it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I need to rewatch Piper/Hogan, but i thought it was more than a DUD.  My memory is usually shit though lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Somehow they had an even worse match together in a cage. Oh my goodness, did Hogan even have a good PPV match in WCW? I'm looking through a list of his matches on PPV, and I already count 20 DUDs :lmao


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I need to watch Flair/Hogan Cage soon so I can get a definite opinion on it, but I haven't seen any good Hogan WCW matches at all tbh 

Need to watch another WCW 96 ppv(downloading 97 atm), which ones should I avoid and which ones are good?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

whatever you do SMITTY, when your 97 download has finished, DON'T watched Souled Out. One of the WOAT PPVs


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Go watch Uncensored 1996. Eddie Guerrero carries Konnan to a real good match, Finlay and Regal have the greatest brawl ever, six man tag was all sorts of craziness, and the main event is a classic.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Will do FF, sounds great, really dont know why but my WCW watching is not good at all, I've only seen classics like Eddie/Rey HH 97. 

FLUX thanks for letting me know :lol


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Go watch Uncensored 1996. Eddie Guerrero carries Konnan to a real good match, Finlay and Regal have the greatest brawl ever, six man tag was all sorts of craziness, and the main event is a classic.


When you say the main event is a classic do you mean classically bad?

Watched Souled Out 97 Smitty, just so you know how awful it is :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Go watch Uncensored 1996. Eddie Guerrero carries Konnan to a real good match, Finlay and Regal have the greatest brawl ever, six man tag was all sorts of craziness, and the main event is a classic.



I don't know that I would consider Regal/Finlay Uncensored a "brawl" tbh. It's one of the 10 greatest North American wrestling matches ever, IMHO, but I don't give it the distinction of being a "brawl". Sure there were plenty of stiff, nasty strikes, clobbering, fisticuffs, etc. But there were also plenty of excellently worked submission holds, which usually disqualifies a match from being considered a "brawl" in my opinion. Until I see something better, the best brawls in North American wrestling history are Piper/Valentine Dog Collar, Slaughter/Sheik Boot Camp, Patterson/Slaughter Alley Fight, and Duggan/Sawyer 85' in Mid South.

For the record I don't consider Tully/Magnum a brawl either, as it took place in a cage.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Jericho vs. Chono is a contender for WMOTY, horrid.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Souled Out at least has a decent Ladder match between Guerrero and Waltman. There were other shows in 1997 that featured *nothing* worth watching, even if they weren't as completely awful overall.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ignore Jericho vs Chono & go to Jarrett vs Wallstreet. The real crown jewel on that event.

and haha, FF still trying to crap on Hogan's WCW early PPV matches. GIVE IT UP.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This was our chance to trick SMITTY into watching some horrible PPVs, and you guys missed that opportunity. I would have loved to see his reaction to Eddie/Syxx


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Somehow they had an even worse match together in a cage. Oh my goodness, did Hogan even have a good PPV match in WCW? I'm looking through a list of his matches on PPV, and I already count 20 DUDs :lmao


Is it just me or do you have more matches rated @ DUD than every other rating combined?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I've seen Eddie/Syxx, fucking sucks


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I watched Finlay vs Regal for the millionth time a few weeks ago. Then I said _"let me relive the Tower of Doom match for the lulz."_ If anyone wants to call me a fucking idiot they may do so now. No infraction entrapment here. I was dying about 35 seconds in.

Worst part is, the main event from Uncensored the year prior is legit right on par w/it. If not worse considering it's about 100x more idiotic. How does Vader vs Hogan go from SuperBrawl to that? Let me smell that Slim Jim breath, brother...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 taught me to give out DUDs instead of distinguishing between a one star match and a zero star match.

I think Vader and Hogan no sold more moves than they sold in that Superbrawl match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DUDs are common. Welcome to mainstream wrestling. Negative ratings are apparently just as popular I've noticed.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That six man tag is even worse than the tower of doom match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So is the doomsday cage match actually a "classic" because I just read the description of the stip and it sounds stupid as fuck

Will watch the show for Finlay/Regal though


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

tbf I can understand a DUD moreso than a *3/4, *1/2 or **, but I dont like the star system anyways


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That six man tag is even worse than the tower of doom match.


There is no six man tag on 1995 or 1996 Uncensored.

oh wait. I think I just got it.



SMITTY said:


> So is the doomsday cage match actually a "classic" because I just read the description of the stip and it sounds stupid as fuck
> 
> Will watch the show for Finlay/Regal though


Classic for being infamously horrendous.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Yeah1993 taught me to give out DUDs instead of distinguishing between a one star match and a zero star match.


I did? WAIT I MEAN YES I DID. ?????? 


Honestly anything below three stars is like ''idk who cares''.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Exactly. Three tiny little snowflakes = good in my criteria. Anything less isn't worth scoping out.

What a near pointless topic to explain


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well sirs, I have to disagree. You see an **3/4 match is usually most of the time somewhat good and worth taking a look at while maybe a ** match is also in the same region but a *3/4 match is probably not a match you should care about however there might be some fun to it. Then you might have a * match that only lasts 2 minutes but is superbly enjoyable however you feel you cannot rate it any higher due to the length of said bout and therefore if you ignored matches under *** you might inevitably miss out on 2 super duper fun minutes of your life.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

100% why I stopped w/the stuff. I prefer "good" or "fucking sucks" and everything in-between to get my point across. Except for DUD. That's a word and fits the lingo we all get.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

If only Austin101 was here to tell us the EXACT RULES OF NINJA STARZ.

Just remember ***1/2 = GREAT.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Is ****1/4 and above CLASSIC? Or ****+? Or just ****1/2+? I forget.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

iirc the comment was ****3/4* = GREAT


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

It was definetly ***1/2 because I gave the Jericho/Michaels ladder match that and called it good and he went ballistic at me.

Just remember that Flair/Michaels gets docked points for Flair coming out of retirement yet Savage/Warrior doesn't.

Dear old Mixx had a vast and complex rulebook, he most likely used a copy of that one Sheepherders match as a bookmark.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So ***1/2-3/4 is considered GREAT.

I *think* ****1/4+ is considered CLASSIC.

Flair coming out of retirement = STARS knocked off his retirement match.

Savage coming out of retirement = WHO CARES OOOOOO YEAH!

Clipped matches = ***** while pretending they are in full (the Sheepherders match is one example, another is the clipped Flair/Perfect Raw 93 match that was released on a set one time).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The RAW 15th Anniversary set. :lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I did? WAIT I MEAN YES I DID. ??????
> 
> 
> Honestly anything below three stars is like ''idk who cares''.





HayleySabin said:


> Exactly. Three tiny little snowflakes = good in my criteria. Anything less isn't worth scoping out.
> 
> What a near pointless topic to explain





HayleySabin said:


> 100% why I stopped w/the stuff. I prefer "good" or "fucking sucks" and everything in-between to get my point across. Except for DUD. That's a word and fits the lingo we all get.


(Y) This is why I stopped also, so dumb and confusing. *** is usually the lowest I will look at some of these reviews and consider watching or "good"


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> The RAW 15th Anniversary set. :lmao


And the Best of Raw seasons 1993/4 IIRC. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Uncensored Tower of Doom match might have my vote for the WOAT match. It's certainly a dud but when you take these things into account:

1. It was a main event
2. It was 25 minutes long
3. It had Savage, Flair, Anderson, and Meng in the match and still sucked.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

TaylorFitz said:


> The Uncensored Tower of Doom match might have my vote for the WOAT match. It's certainly a dud but when you take these things into account:
> 
> 1. It was a main event
> 2. It was 25 minutes long
> 3. It had Savage, Flair, Anderson, and Meng in the match and still sucked.


Someone has clearly not saw this beauty:






It doesn't meet any of those 3 criteria but its fucking ZEUS AGAINST ADULLAH THE BUTCHER, dear god.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A match main eventing has zero to add in w/the shittiness of a match. b/c by that curve, so many could be a contender for "worst match ever".

Whoever watches the video Craig posted is a lunatic. Look at the screen shot for the video. The tussle just looks about the most awkward, uncoordinated thing ever seen that didn't include Konnan. It probably has a stronger effort than him, tbf. How did I sneak this in there?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I've always considered this for my rating system;

*** = good, worth the watch
**** = great, definitely should watch ASAP
****1/2 = Classic, why haven't you seen this yet?!
***** = Wrestling perfection, when I wouldn't change a single aspect of the match and feel the performers maxed out their potential

Everyone does it their own way. Snowflakes are just a way of quantifying how good I think something is. It's just MY OPINION, not based in any sort of fact. Throwing out words like "rad, awesome, spectacular, tremendous" are great, but when I'm looking to compare two matches, snowflakes is the way I choose to go. For those that choose not to use them, that's perfectly fine, I just think it's an easy way for me to convey just how good I think something is. Then again, since we all seem to have differing definitions of what we think each star rating means, I guess in the end it's all rather pointless


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Now I got to watch that ZEUS/Butcher match just because I'm a certified masochist and definitely a lunatic.

My rating system works similar to PRINCE CAL. Too used to the star ratings to change it, besides I don't really rate or review anymore so it makes no difference.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Wow what was I thinking? That was a tag match apparently, not a six man tag. I'm talking about that long ass Chicago street fight in Uncensored 96. I guess I successfully forgot about it. Until now.

I think Uncensored 95 consisted of Ric Flair in drag and Meng in a martial arts match. WCW can be such a tough promotion to deal with.

I think Pitbull #2 vs. Shane Douglas is even worse than any match spoken about in this thread.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Uncensored 1996

Konnan/Eddie: ****
Finlay/Regal:****3/4
Parker/Medusa: **
DDP/Booty man: * 
Giant/Loch Ness: DUD 
Road Warriors/Stooker:***
Doomsday Cage: DUD 

First match is the best match I've ever seen from Konnan and the second match is the best match I've seen from both men and might be 5 stars, although I feel the DQ ending kind of prohibits that, rest of the match is perfect. I liked the tag match, IDK why if they just cut about 10 minutes out it would have been great, but it went long and the three star rating is perfect for a fun brawl. 

:ti at the cage match


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Okay, I just finished watching :deebo ......... wrestle, if you can call it that. And as result, I'm almost in tears. :lmao

It's only amusing for about five minutes, though. You can only laugh at those "punches" and friendly-hugs for so long before you want it to end.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wow. It got a positive review.

and Douglas vs Pitbull #2. ahhhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I was just joking, SMITTY. Why did you watch that show? That could have been time spent on the Juventud Guerrera regimen. Which by the way, is the best type of regimen. JUVENTUD!

I don't understand how two guys that killed it in the second best fatal four way ever forgot how to wrestle completely. It's shit like Douglas/Pitbull #2 that causes people like Cal and Cornette to deplore ECW.

Albert's screaming in just about every match in 2000 is music to my ears. T&A were a much better team than I remember. They remind me of what Faces of Fear would have been if they were in the WWE. Meng > Albert > Test > Barbarian


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

First two matches were :mark: and I liked the tag for some reason, plus the gaudiness of the cage match was too strong to avoid 

Watching Hog wild now


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

I'm thinking of making a "best of" DVD for Orton, Punk, and HHH. What are some not so obvious choices for matches on there? So far I'm thinking:

*For Orton*:
v. Benoit _Summerslam 2004_
v. Christian _Over the Limit 2011_
v. Christian _Summerslam 2011_
Elimination Chamber _New Year's Revolutions 2005_

*For HHH:*
v. Michaels v. Benoit_ WrestleMania XX_
v. Michaels _Summerslam 2002_
v. Michaels_ Royal Rumble 2004_(haven't seen it in a while, remember it being pretty good)
v. Jericho _Fully Loaded 2000_
v. Rock _Judgement Day 1999_
v. Stone Cold _No Way Out 2001_
v. Undertaker _WrestleMania 17_


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I think Uncensored 95 consisted of Ric Flair in drag


the promo he had with Vader throwing chairs in the background is utterly goddamn amazing, to be fair.



SMITTY said:


> I liked the tag match, IDK why if they just cut about 10 minutes out it would have been great, but it went long and the three star rating is perfect for a fun brawl.


Me in Septmeber 2011 (holy fuck, emotional nerd nostalgia):



> Sting/Booker T v Road Warrior Hawk/Road Warrior Animal (Uncensored 24/3/96)
> -- "Some matches suck, and some are just uninteresting." Meet the suck. This was joined in progress, and I tend to check the time of the chapter of the DVD when it first starts, and this had 15 minutes left, and I thought "no way it lasts 15 more minutes." It. Fucking. Did. And it was painful. It's a Chicago Street Fight, and it's a lot of bad brawling and more confusing heel/face stuff. Sting's a clear face obviously, but Booker walks out on him at one point and gets together with his brother and some others (fuck if I remember who) in the back and tie up Animal. Then he come back to help Sting, then some more bullshit happens. I checked the length of entire match on Wikipedia, and it apparently ends up at over 29 minutes. To hell with enduring that shit. This was not good. No siree.






Have they added TV shows and shit to the Network yet?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Get vs HBK from the rumble off, that match sucks, also no matches with Foley? they're his best imo, also no BL 2000 vs The Rock.

add a Benoit SD 2006(i hate the SS match, RAW 04 is good) to Ortons plus his best match vs Foley, also vs Benjamin Vengeance 04 and vs HHH LMS NM 2007

Yeah1993 im aware me liking it is unpopular


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was gonna make a crack about Hog Wild being an awful show, but actually, it might not be all THAT bad outside of Benoit/Malenko & Hogan/Giant. I know I'm quite the fan of Mysterio/Ultimo & Flair/Eddie. Best Harlem Heat matches _(you know the ones that are bearable)_ are usually vs the Steiners. Norton vs Ice Train should be good. Madusa vs Nakano was great just a few years prior. Not much hope w/the Outsiders, but I was surprised by Hall actually working in 1997 for a spell, so crazier things have happened.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Get vs HBK from the rumble off, that match sucks, also *no matches with Foley*? they're his best imo, also no *BL 2000 vs The Rock*.
> 
> add a Benoit SD 2006(i hate the SS match, RAW 04 is good) to Ortons plus his best match vs Foley, also vs Benjamin Vengeance 04 and vs HHH LMS NM 2007
> 
> Yeah1993 im aware me liking it is unpopular


I totally forgot about the Foley matches, which is stupid because I rate them from **** - *****, and I couldnt remember if Backlash was a good match or not, only remember the Austin run in.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

If I love Benoit/Malenko at the GAB 1996 and Nitro the night after think I'll enjoy this one?

If not, color me dissapointed


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rey/Malenko, you mean (GAB 96 + night after BTBT 96?)? There isn't a Rey/Malenko at Hog Wild, there's a three thousand minute Benoit/Malenko and a Rey/Ultimo that I remember kinda liking but their best match is at World War 3 later in the year. Not that I love that either, but most like it more than I do. I know one guy on another couple forums who ranked it the best WCW match ever.


I liked Hogan/Giant on last watch. Yeah.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:side: I remember Ice Train vs. Scott Norton being disappointing. Wasn't as hard hitting as I thought it would be, and it felt like a poor "team break-up" match. Similar to the equally disappointing PTP breakup match at Elimination Chamber. Don't remember the Harlem Heat match being that good, which really isn't a surprise. Outsiders vs. Sting and Luger led to Nick Patrick nonsense for what it's worth. Main event obviously sucked. Flair/Eddie and Mysterio/Ultimo ruled per usual. And I don't know why I'm supposed to dislike Benoit/Malenko.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

LOL im being stupid, I was thinking that their was a GAB match between Benoit/Malenko but that was Rey/Malenko

my bad, but the GAB match does rule :side:

Dragon/Rey HW is fun, but the WW3 match is a million times better


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was hoping Jerhi would throw out his comment about liking Hogan vs Giant.

Poor Spring Stampede 1997 match from Mysterio & Ultimo never gets remembered. And it's one of only two matches on that show any fans should see while the rest burn in hell. _(Wait, Hokuto vs Madusa is fine too)_


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Everyone should watch Malenko v. Disco Inferno BATB 96 instead. :mark:










[I'm not kidding, that match rocks]


edit - cody do not like Benoit/Sullivan or Page/Savage?
edit again - nvm there's no Benoit/Sullivan on that show.
edit again again - is Regal/iaukea not good?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Why would you be kidding? Disco, bro.

And Alex Wright rules.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ONE WEEK TO MANIA

Someone give me a match to watch.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Won't be able to watch Mania live, BUT I'M STILL EXCITED DAMN IT.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Saint Dick said:


> ONE WEEK TO MANIA
> 
> Someone give me a match to watch.


Here you go. You should breeze through this 

xzt086_wrestlemania-23-the-undertaker-vs-batista-world-heavyweight-championship_sport


Not feeling the MANIA HYPE yet but I am looking forward to watching the TAKER/BROCK and Bryan/Trips matches.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Batista/Taker :mark:

Just finished The Great American Bash 1990 & the Midnight Express stole the show once again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> ONE WEEK TO MANIA
> 
> Someone give me a match to watch.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

That was a gem of a 2 minute match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Found this whilst browsing:


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

The general WWE section hurts my brain, I've seen at least 2 threads in as many days calling Rey one of the worst wrestlers ever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Which is why it's best to absolutely AVOID 99.9% of everything not this thread . I'm a WWE section MOD and I barely venture out of here :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

For peeps who may not have watched it: 

*Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon - WWF Handheld House Show - (Ladder Match) (San Jose 1.14.94)*

x1kw5yb


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

FINALLY got this Undertaker Streak Opponents list in order and shit! Thought I'd fucked up and put someone on the list twice, but turns out I'd put their name in instead of someone else's so I still had a top 10 and not 9 .

Only problem is, I'm struggling to think of WHICH version of Undertaker I want to face a certain wrestler. This certain wrestler was very technical and is no longer with us. Not sure if I'd want him to face Dead Man Undertaker or 2002-2003 Undertaker... and even then, face or fucking heel? :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> FINALLY got this Undertaker Streak Opponents list in order and shit! Thought I'd fucked up and put someone on the list twice, but turns out I'd put their name in instead of someone else's so I still had a top 10 and not 9 .
> 
> Only problem is, I'm struggling to think of WHICH version of Undertaker I want to face a certain wrestler. This certain wrestler was very technical and is no longer with us. Not sure if I'd want him to face Dead Man Undertaker or 2002-2003 Undertaker... and even then, face or fucking heel? :lmao



If it's Benoit, I'd do 2004 Benoit vs 2002 Heel Taker (the guy who brutalized Jeff Hardy on Raw). If it's Eddie, I'd do 2005 Heel Eddie vs 2008 Face Taker. If it's Mr. Perfect, I'd do 1990 Heel Curt vs 2008 Face Taker 

How anyone can honestly say Rey Mysterio is a bad wrestler is just beyond comprehension. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone in this thread who doesn't think he's one of the 10 best wrestlers in North American history, if not the world. Rey Rey and Steamboat are the 2 best baby faces to ever lace up a pair of boots IMO. The ultimate good guys. If you want to get some real heat as a heel, just get in the ring with one of those two. Jericho and Edge have both said, working with Rey was like having the night off. You didn't end to really do anything and you would have a fantastic match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The answer is always 2008 Undertaker.

Why did I punish myself by watching Cena/Masters/Angle?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The answer is always 2008 Undertaker.


Nah. Heel/Face matches >>>>>>> Face/Face matches, all day every day. Sure Taker was on fire in 2008, but he had some all time great matches in 2002 as well (2 matches vs Brock, Vengeance 3-way, Ladder match with Hardy, etc). If it came down to it, I'd prefer a 2004 Face Benoit vs 2002 Heel Taker to say a 2000 Heel Benoit to a 2008 Face Taker. Maybe that's just me though.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> Was gonna make a crack about Hog Wild being an awful show, but actually, it might not be all THAT bad outside of Benoit/Malenko & Hogan/Giant. I know I'm quite the fan of Mysterio/Ultimo & Flair/Eddie. Best Harlem Heat matches _(you know the ones that are bearable)_ are usually vs the Steiners. Norton vs Ice Train should be good. Madusa vs Nakano was great just a few years prior. Not much hope w/the Outsiders, but I was surprised by Hall actually working in 1997 for a spell, so crazier things have happened.


I'm watching the show now and I think it's going to be pretty good. Mysterio/Ultimo was good, not great but good (I can write an essay on what star rating that would be if you want) and I have a hard time thinking that Benoit/Malenko and Eddie/Flair won't be good either. I see 3 all time great workers (I wouldn't argue if Flair, Eddie, and Benoit were in someone's top 10 non-lucha North Americans list) and another that is pretty good. I watched like 30 seconds and Madusa/Nakano and I saw that Nakano was rag dolling Madusa so I'm hopeful. 

I'm also a much bigger fan if Nash, Sting, and Luger than most I think so I feel like I will enjoy that match. Nash and Hall didn't have many great matches in WCW but this was right after they debuted so I'm thinking they still might be in more of a WWF mode and haven't gotten lazy yet.



funnyfaces1 said:


> :side: I remember Ice Train vs. Scott Norton being disappointing. Wasn't as hard hitting as I thought it would be, and it felt like a poor "team break-up" match. Similar to the equally disappointing PTP breakup match at Elimination Chamber. Don't remember the Harlem Heat match being that good, which really isn't a surprise. Outsiders vs. Sting and Luger led to Nick Patrick nonsense for what it's worth. Main event obviously sucked. Flair/Eddie and Mysterio/Ultimo ruled per usual. And I don't know why I'm supposed to dislike Benoit/Malenko.


Ice Train vs. Norton really wasn't that good. The power moves were cool enough but yeah, it just wasn't that interesting to watch.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

SummerSlam 2005

Benoit vs Jordan...hahaha that was awesome, but no rating

Edge vs Matt Hardy..fantastic for what it was, would have preferred if they had that street fight from RAW on this show,the match beatdown was brutal, no rating

Rey vs Eddie, wasn't really digging the storyline tbh, it was an okay match I suppose,***1/2

Angle vs Eugene, good Angle beating the shit out of Eugene was great, weird we now have 3 matches on this show less than 5 min, **1/2

Orton vs Taker SS, This was a great feud for 2005, I'd have it #3 behind Edge/Hardy and Batista/HHH, and the matches were very good, and this was no exception, ***3/4

Cena vs Y2J , blah, Cena just wasn't good in 2005,**1/4

Batista vs JBL,2 of my least favorite wrestlers ever but this was short thank god and it was a fun brawl, **1/2

HBK vs Hogan :mark:
the promo before the match gets me hyped everytime, I'm a big fan of this match even with HBK making mockery of it a bit, ****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ministry Undertaker is the only answer.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Ministry Undertaker is the only answer.


I'll take that into consideration. Along with Muta as a potential top 10 opponent...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Holy FUCK


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Best feuds of 2005:

Rey/Eddie (no other feud even comes close in terms of match quality, and while the paternity angle was downright silly, these two took crap and made it work. You can't tell me that angle didn't work, go watch their match at GAB, having Domenick at ringside helped turn Eddie into the most evil heel in the WWE. Eddie's character work from the pre-JD build through SS is the best I've ever seen from any wrestler ever.)

Edge/Hardy (for both match quality and heat generated. SS match is one of the best squashes ever, Unforgiven cage is a classic, Raw matches were both really, really good)

Taker/Orton (awesome matches and solid promos)

Hunter/Batista (2 stinkers and a classic, the build to WM 21 is one of the best ever and the proceeding months promos and segments were solid)

Flair/Hunter (awesome segments and promos, even better matches, including the best cage match of the last 20 years)

That sums up 2005 in a nutshell. Plenty of trash (Cena/Angle anyone?) but there were some AWESOME feuds and AWESOME matches, too. On the whole, very very good year, that's why I have all the PPV's on DVD


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wouldn't dare put the Batista program in the mix, but yeah all the rest were wonderful. Edge vs Matt Hardy. Man. I love the hate.

Eddie vs Mysterio dropped off following GAB I'd say, but it's still chalk full of greatness. Two average gimmick matches and a poor showcase at WM doesn't "ruin" this in the slightest. Even if what it morphed into for a few months was...well, quite stupid. Once you get Eddie showing you his evil character, you forget about anything that isn't on par w/his majesty.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cody, what 04 PPV should I watch first... and which one (aka the best) should I save for last? Keep in mind I've done RR (THANK GOD) and WM (... mostly also thank god lol) already .


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Best feuds of 2005:
> 
> Rey/Eddie (no other feud even comes close in terms of match quality, and while the paternity angle was downright silly, these two took crap and made it work. You can't tell me that angle didn't work, go watch their match at GAB, having Domenick at ringside helped turn Eddie into the most evil heel in the WWE. Eddie's character work from the pre-JD build through SS is the best I've ever seen from any wrestler ever.)


haven't seen the GAB match since it aired to be honest, will give it a watch later, and that's why i guess I didn't like the feud cause all I remember from it was mostly the paternity angle, might look up some of the segments/matches for this feud


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

This is hard b/c they all actually kind of suck. You probably have to do Survivor Series first b/c that's the only PPV I can think that has the least amount of crap peppered throughout. Although one is a WWE Championship match...still. I like JD even though it's largely average on the whole, but something about the show remains fun at heart. And the main event being seen early. Doesn't hurt. So, yeah, these. But probably Survivor Series as a more "overall" show. Taker vs Heidenreich, man.

Ok, now last. Armageddon. Save the pain until you HAVE to see it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nah, I wanna do the BEST last so I have something to look forward to . So SVS last it is. Was already thinking that one myself.

Armageddon first since it's the worst...


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cena/Jericho at **1/4 :bosh 

Cena was ok in 2005 but worse in 06 imo

Backlash is easily my favorite show from 2004 btw


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bit of a 'behind the scenes' on Brock.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Cena/Jericho at **1/4 :bosh
> 
> Cena was ok in 2005 but worse in 06 imo


the first part of the match was boring tbh, the second part was good..
I much preferred the one on RAW when Jericho got fired, I remember when I first saw it, he had me believing many times Cena was gona tap


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Nah, I wanna do the BEST last so I have something to look forward to . So SVS last it is. Was already thinking that one myself.
> 
> Armageddon first since it's the worst...


Shoot. I did get that confused. Well, either way. There you go. Oh lordy, good luck.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah that cena/Jericho match is probably my MOTN from that show 

Thats a great show, probably the third best SS behind 2002 and 2001


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

etrbaby said:


> the first part of the match was boring tbh, the second part was good..
> I much preferred the one on RAW when Jericho got fired, I remember when I first saw it, he had me believing many times Cena was gona tap



Watch Eddie/Rey in order:

Brainbuster on steel steps segment on SD
Judgement Day match : ****1/2
Smackdown 6/23/05 match: ***** (best SD match ever and one of the 10 best matches in WWE history)
Great American Bash: ****
Summerslam: ****1/4 (would have been SO much higher without the botches)
Cage match on SD: ***3/4

There are other relevant segments and promos, but really you only need to watch the first one when Eddie fully turns on Rey, then just watch Eddies character and listen to Cole and Tazz on commentary through the rest of the matches. Students at Julliard could learn a thing or two about "dropping into a character" from Eddie. You can even just watch his freakinf entrances. Go watch his entrance for NWO vs Brock in 2004 then watch his entrance to the 6/23/05 match. It's striking. He goes from everyone's favorite baby face to the most evil, hate filled human I've ever seen.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

On the subject of 2004 PPV's, Vengeance 2004 is actually pretty decent. Orton/Edge is really quite good (****, imo) and Benoit/HHH is good, even if the ending is overbooked and the whole thing takes about a million years. There's a couple of decent undercard matches that won't bore you to tears. Kane/Hardy is a total dud, though.

Bad Blood 2004 also manages to be *not awful*. Decent match from Orton/Benjamin, Kane/Benoit manages to be one of Kane's better (if not best) singles matches, and HHH/Michaels is fun if you're in the mood for some drawn out, violent crap. Sometimes I am.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You like the Ladder & Cage THAT much? Surprised. Especially on the Cage. Finally watched it again not too long ago and it was nothing more than average for me. Even a little dull in the middle patch. But the ending was the most satisfying of all the matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Eddie/Rey 05:

SD in... Jan? ***1/2-3/4, super fun match, but not part of their "feud".
WM - PILE OF SHITE.
JD - ****
SD - ****1/2
GAB - ****
SS - ***
SD Cage - ***1/2

As for that Cena/Jericho SS match, based on memory I'd go LOWER than etrbaby. Don't care for any of their matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The January match was at least the lead-in for it. Which is why the feud ruled b/c of the roots that were planted all the way back in late December of 2004.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Eddie/Rey 05:
> 
> SD in... Jan? ***1/2-3/4, super fun match, but not part of their "feud".
> WM - PILE OF SHITE.
> ...



I think you're sleeping on that Judgement Day match. SO good, as much as I love GAB, JD is significantly better IMO. And the ladder match they had at SS was awesome, the botches and missed ques are the only thing that keep it from being a top 2-3 ladder match in wwe history. We've discussed it ad nauseum, but the SD 6/23/05 is perfection so I wouldn't dream of giving it anything less than the full 5. You gave their HH 1997 match the full 5, this would imply you think it's superior to SD? No way señor.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Watch Eddie/Rey in order:
> 
> Brainbuster on steel steps segment on SD
> Judgement Day match : ****1/2
> ...


Thanks a lot for this, will do


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

GAB is one of those matches where STARS don't really do it justice. I'd happily throw ***** at it next time I saw it tbh. Don't have their HH match at ***** btw. But I do like it slightly, barely more than SD. Ladder match just isn't anything special. Good, but absolutely nothing more. Would barely be great without the botches tbh.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I view the feud as :

1)HH 97
2)SD 6/23/05
3) JD 05
4)4/04
5)SD 1/05
6)GAB




ladder
cage


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's too fixated on the spots involving the ladder rather than the appropriate notion of using the object to obtain the briefcase _(which had custody papers inside, lmao. When you say it, it just cracks you up.)_ & work the match on par w/their average sign of quality w/the rest of the feud. A good portion of the storytelling wasn't really there unless it dealt w/having the kid jump in the ring or Vickie botching her cue.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah no way is the SD match the full 5, ****1/2, HH 97 is the tops with ****3/4 

LOVED the ladder once but last watch it went down to ***1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching Armageddon 2004. ALREADY UP TO THE MAIN EVENT :lmao.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Can't abide the ladder match. It's just terrible. Eddie's tantrum when Vickie misses her cue though :lmao

Don't feel real the Mania match either. Apparently I haven't seen the great ones.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> Yeah no way is the SD match the full 5, ****1/2, HH 97 is the tops with ****3/4
> 
> LOVED the ladder once but last watch it went down to ***1/2


Yeah, it's a minimum of 100 stars. Anything less is insulting.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Watching Armageddon 2004. ALREADY UP TO THE MAIN EVENT :lmao.


:lmao

Absolutely amazing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The 4 way needs ****1/4 to get ZERO on the Cal Scale overall :lmao.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I'm thinking of doing a mini-Outsiders project. I haven't seen much of their tags ever since the original airing. Which means, what, 16-18 years? Daaayum, I miss my childhood.

I've rewatched bunch of promos, but never matches, tbf.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's not gonna happen. :hayden3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It really isn't :lmao.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> GAB is one of those matches where STARS don't really do it justice. I'd happily throw ***** at it next time I saw it tbh. Don't have their HH match at ***** btw. But I do like it slightly, barely more than SD. Ladder match just isn't anything special. Good, but absolutely nothing more. Would barely be great without the botches tbh.


Really? I thought I remember you having it as the 3rd best match in WCW History, above the 1992 WarGames match, Regal/Finlay Uncensored, Flair/Steamboat WW and CtR. Maybe you just don't think ANY of those matches warrant 5-stars, which is fair I suppose, but then you gave Brock/Taker NM 5-stars. DAT TAKER BIAS :lmao. Did you give that Taker vs Taker match from the early 90s a bazillion and one STARZ?

Anywho, how's that Armageddon 4-way treating you? Isn't that the match where the only redeeming quality is the Eddie/Taker interactions, which don't happen nearly enough, and everything else is blah? OH YEA ITS ALSO THE EVENT WITH HBK/HHH 3 STAGES OF LITERAL HELL! Can't wait for that review. Worst 2/3 falls match ever? There might be some worse ones I'm just not thinking of....but man giving that match anything more than a Dudski is tough.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I did indeed have that HH match as my #3 WCW match, but that list wasn't put together based on STARS.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Armageddon 2004 is comedy. I enjoyed the main event quite a bit as well as Cena squashing HAY-SOOSE (lol @ him getting ZERO offense in). Don't remember anything else other than The Mike having a boxing match.

The Raw PPVs in 2004 are actually decent for the most part. They all have at least one or two good matches and in Backlash's case, two CLASSICS.

Gotta watch the HH match with Eddie and Rey Rey. I've seen a few clips and it seems to be pure perfection.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Armageddon 2004*

My 50th PPV Ramble (not counting RR's and WM's that I'd already done). And my 50th PPV Ramble could be one of the WORST shows I'll ever have to write about. Yey!


*RVD & Rey Mysterio Vs Rene Dupree & Kenzo Susuke - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

Literally had to wait until Rey made his entrance before I could type his name into the match title. I genuinely don't remember him and RVD ever being tag team champions :lmao.

Oh god didn't know who their opponents were going to be. Susuke might have been the WORST "new" guy in WWE during 2004. And Dupree can GTFO too.

Great start to this show :lmao.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Kurt Angle Vs Santa - Kurt Angle Invitational*

Angle has a match later, but apparently wanted to make Santa tap out first. Match ends in 25 seconds. I DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TIME TO "NO" IT :lmao.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Mike Mizanin Vs Daniel Puder - Dixie Dog Fight*

:lmao oh god no.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Hardcore Holly & Charlie Hass Vs The Basham Brothers*

:lmao

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*John Cena Vs Jesus - United States Championship No DQ, Falls Count Anywhere Match*

:lmao 

:lmao

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Miss Jackie Vs Dawn Marie - Special Referee Charlie Hass*

Fuck me sideways :lmao.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*The Big Show Vs Kurt Angle, Luther Reigns & mark Jindrak*

Well, I'll give this a watch. Show and Angle have had some fun matches in the past.

Show beats up Jindrak, and Angle tags in which is who Show REALLY wants. Show uses his power to shove him across the ring so Angle tags out like a pussy, leaving us with LUTHER REIGNS and Jindrak to work this match... urgh.

Show is knocked down so Angle decides to get him some of the giant... for about 10 seconds before tagging out AGAIN. Urgh.

More dull shit with those 2 other dudes beating down Show, then Angle tags in and... locks in a hold and sits in it.

Big Show makes a comeback, destroys Jindrak and then hits the WEAKEST Irish Whip ever and Reigns takes the worst bump over the ropes from it :lmao. Terrible :lmao

F-5 FROM THE BIG SHOW!!! Hits Jindrak with it and wins. SCREW YOU LESNAR :lmao.

Awful.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Spike Dudley Vs Funaki - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match*

2 of the least appealing Cruiserweights EVER in WWE...

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*JBL Vs The Undertaker Vs Eddie Guerrero Vs Booker T - WWE Championship Match*

A 4 way match for the title... that ISN'T built around 3 guys simply wanting a title match and being thrown together. They all have had beef with JBL in 2004 revolving around the WWE championship. He screwed them all out of wins and cheated his way to a longer reign, and now his ARMAGEDDON IS HERE.

Love JBL in the back before the match just staring at his title, before his "cabinet" all come in to shake his hand and "wish him luck"... basically knowing JBL has no chance in HELL of retaining. Added to the DRAMA of the whole thing :mark:.

:mark: @ JBL almost in TEARS as Undertaker makes his entrance. He has really gone into this match EXPECTING to lose his WWE title. Poor guy! 

Look at the TALENT in this too. And then Booker T. Urgh. Should have been Rey. Switch the two around. Rey in this match would have added AWESOMENESS to it, and Booker/RVD end up being tag partners in 05 I think? 

BELL RINGS~! JBL bails immediately. Booker and Eddie go over to the ropes to see what he's doing, while Undertaker decides to fuck up whoever is left in the ring.

:lmao JBL has Booker T pinned for about a 20 count, but the ref is too busy watching Undertaker and Eddie :lmao.

JBL IS TRAPPED~! He pinballs around, taking shots from all 3 guys. Undertaker goes for a cover on JBL, forcing Eddie and Booker to double team the Dead Man to try and take him out of the match because he is the biggest threat to everyone no doubt.

:lmao Booker T is terrible. He sees JBL covering Eddie... and he still decides to take his fucking time getting in the ring. He was battling Undertaker on the outside, he has no idea what happened. JBL could have hit a CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL. Eddie might have been DONE. And Booker T would have let JBL win then and there because he didn't want to rush getting in the fucking ring :lmao.

A minute later, Undertaker has JBL covered and what happens? EDDIE RUNS OVER TO BREAK IT UP. See, Eddie knows what he's doing. Then JBL covers Booker and Undertaker punches JBL in the face to break it up. UNDERTAKER knows what he's doing too. Someone PLEASE explain to me why Booker T got any kind of a push in 2004, resulting in him being in this match?

Everyone fights on the floor, then we end up with EDDIE VS UNDERTAKER ONE ON ONE IN THE RING :mark:. These two NEVER had a singles match together, in fact this and a 6 man tag in 2002 is the ONLY time they were in a match together (at the same time, technically they were both in the 03 RR lol).

Dammit, Booker T ruins it all. I guess the UNDERTAKER VS EDDIE part isn't until later on in the match .

:mark: Undertaker goes for Old School on Booker, Eddie runs over to stop it but Undertaker, while on the ropes, KICKS EDDIE IN THE HEAD and then goes for Old School still :mark:.

:mark: Eddie running away from Undertaker scared as fuck :mark:. I think it's time for EDDIE VS UNDERTAKER part of this match :mark:.

CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL TO UNDERTAKER ON THE FLOOR~! I guess it's not quite time yet then :lmao.

Instead of UNDERTAKER VS EDDIE we get... JBL Vs Booker T. Urgh.

Eddie senses that everyone is bored shitless with this crap so... LADDER~! Which he... leaves on the outside...

Booker T gets a ton of offense, lands the Axe Kick on Eddie... AND EDDIE KICKS OUT! THANK YOU EDDIE *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP*. If he didn't kick out, Booker T would have been champion. URGH.

:lmao JBL tries to powerbomb Booker T through the announce table, but Booker gets caught up in some wires and JBL and lift him too high :lmao. Elbow drop breaks the table though .

LAST RIDE TO JBL THROUGH THE OTHER ANNOUNCE TABLE. JBL knows how to take a fucking powerbomb through a table. Fuck you, Booker.

Wait... JBL through a table. Booker through a table. Undertaker left standing... Eddie in the ring... can it be? Is it time? :mark:

Eddie realises Undertaker is left standing, so he drops to the mat and plays dead to sucker in the Dead Man!!! :mark:

Tombstone, but Eddie is fine and escapes... only to run right into a fucking CHOKESLAM :mark:. THE UNDERTAKER IS GONNA DO IT! HE'S GONNA WIN! HE'S GONNA WIN! LAST RIDE SIGNAL :mark:.

Las Ride... but Eddie grabbed the WWE title belt! Smashes it in his face! Frog Splash! Another Frog Splash! Undertaker kicks out at 2 and SITS UP :mark:. Eddie is shitting himself, tries to escape but gets caught so... LOW BLOW!!!

Oh hey, the LADDER is finally coming into play now! Yey.

FROG SPLASH OFF THE LADDER~! 1...2... JBL DRAGS THE REFEREE OUT OF THE RING!

3 Amigos to JBL! Oh and NOW Booker T decides to break up a fucking count. What a cunt.

CHOKESLAM TO BOOKER~! CHOKESLAM TO EDDIE~! CHOKESLAM TO JBL~! The Dead Man has this one in the fucking BAG.

Undertaker goes for a Tombstone... but HEIDENREICH shows up and attacks Undertaker!

JBL manages to land a Clothesline from Hell (off camera :lmao) to Booker T and RETAINS HIS TITLE while Eddie is down and Heidenreich is beating down Undertaker.

Match... kinda drags mostly. Undertaker Vs Eddie stuff is a million stars, but everything else bar a few parts here and there is slow and dull.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*



*Overall CAL SCALE - -5*​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal I'm ready for this review.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

:ti at the rating 

Personally thought you NO'd too many matches but its your review :hb


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They all would have been DUD's anyways.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I actually remember the opener being decent but the rest of them were horrible 

for some reason I watched the majority of the show and it got like a 4 rating


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Easiest. PPV Ramble. Ever.

Looking forward to more 2004 shows now . Hopefully I can skip 90% of them :lmao.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> They all would have been DUD's anyways.



I just saw the rep. Might be tied with that MENG/Duggan HEADBUTT as my new favorite gif ever. Actually I take that back, the one Cal made for the Duchess of Queensbury Rules match with Regal's face is still the GOAT gif :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Opener is about as shite as the collective works of the PPV. Tons of botches/mistiming. Kenzo & Dupree are literal punching bags but not in the fashion of a well structured Southern Style tag. They were just useless so RVD & Mysterio did everything to 'em it felt like. No fun bumping in the mix; solely boring junk happening b/c the heels appeared to have zero clue what to do this night. Then about 14 minutes (in a 17 minute match) in Dupree randomly keeps a headlock on and then, it ends on a total whim a few minutes later. It had no structure and left you questioning the entire match from jump street. Kenzo selling the double 619 after not even getting hit was noticeably the best part of it all.

WWE booked the championship switch on the Smackdown before the show b/c they apparently gave up on Dupree & Kenzo by then. :ti


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao If anything, Cal didn't NO enough matches. That has to be the lowest Cal score ever. Nothing will top (err...bottom) it.

I knew I wasn't crazy when I thought Cena/Jericho and the Eddie/Rey ladder match weren't that special. I faintly recall a legitimate carryjob at GAB too by Eddie. Like Rey didn't do anything that UC couldn't have done just as well that night. Still ashamed at you guys lying to me about the Royal Rumble triple threat.

TAKER :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I just saw the rep. Might be tied with that MENG/Duggan HEADBUTT as my new favorite gif ever. Actually I take that back, the one Cal made for the Duchess of Queensbury Rules match with Regal's face is still the GOAT gif :lmao


(Y)

Taker rambling incoherently in the opening promo gave me the greatest flashbacks to 1999. I love him.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

We just need a surprise JeriGOAT appearance. DAT PROMO ABOUT SNAKESKIN AND MOTORCYCLES!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's 120 degrees.

The absurdity of a promo to where he wanted to call SummerSlam "Armageddon" will forever live in my mind.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hog wild 1996 

Dragon/Rey: ***3/4 
Norton/ice train: *1/4 
Madusa/Nakono: **
Benoit/Malenko: **1/2 
Harlem Heat/Steiners: ***1/2 
Flair/Eddie: ****1/4 
Outsiders/Stooger: ***
Hogan/Giant: 1/2*

Pretty meh show although three matches I genuinely liked and the outsiders match was good for what it was, the debut match for Hall and Nash. Flair vs Eddie was awesome and the opener was fun as well, not as good as the WW3 match but still very good. Malenko/Benoit disappointed the fuck out of me and I was upset I didn’t like it. Hogan vs Giant was garbage as was expected.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Nice stuff there SMITTY. Kind of a shame to see Benoit/Malenko getting the Angle/Benoit treatment among the folks in this thread, but the opener and Flair/Eddie deserve all the love possible. If you want another PPV to check out, you could watch Halloween Hav...wait, there's also World Wa...or how about Fall Bra...yeah, all those PPVs royally suck.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Need to get my hands on a big nitro torrent soon

I need to get back to my 2000 ppv reviews tomorrow


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit vs Malenko almost never worked well vs each other. Their match in 1997 sucks too.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Been years since I saw Flair/Eddie but I don't remember thinking it was anything more than very good. My tastes have changed drastically since then though so who knows.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a blast, imo. The Nitro match is better, but I liked the way Flair & Eddie worked their PPV match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Any good matches from Raw?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not at all, my friend. It's a struggle tonight. No effort to make anyone care for WM. Very honest to goodness stuff.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Crowd went nuts for Bryan beating the shit out of H. They're gonna tear the house down on Sunday :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I've only been this excited for one other Mania (X7). Can't wait to witness the greatest moment in wrestling history in six days :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's gonna be mediocre of epic proportions.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

That ending doesn't look good for Bryan on Sunday


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I can honestly say that was one of the worst raw's Ive EVER seen, pretty sure the company doesnt give a fuck anymore

Now I will go watch those flair/eddie matches


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Trips hasn't sold like that for anyone in years. Dude looked like he was running for his life. :mark:


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Bryan going HAM was great. Other than the Taker promo and the Triple H burial video package, this was an alright Raw with the ending making up for most of it. Hopefully the show's going to be good. Pretty hyped for Bryan/HHH, the triple threat, and Lesnar/Taker.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

One thing's for sure, this forum is going to explode on Sunday night. And I mean big time.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

We could see the death of Wrestling Forum on April 6. Shit's going to be insane.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Overall, didn't think it was a bad Raw.

Good:

-Taker/Brock/Heyman whole segment
-HHH burial video package
-Cena/Wyatts segment
-Cena promo
-Ending with Bryan

Bad:
-Piper's Pit
-HHH/Steph/Batista/Orton segment
-Reigns/Kane

... and everything else was forgettable. Overall though, not a terrible show... a step down from last week, but that's fine.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Skins you've never see the Nitro match between Flair & Eddie yet? Oh man. Do it now.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Skins you've never see the Nitro match between Flair & Eddie yet? Oh man. Do it now.


I don't think I've seen it either. What's the date?



StraightEdgeJesus said:


> We could see the death of Wrestling Forum on April 6. Shit's going to be insane.


Bryan winning the title = EXPLOSION
HHH winning the title = EXPLOSION
Bootista winning the title = EXPLOSION
Orton retaining = impossible

The servers: "I cannot."


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> I don't think I've seen it either. What's the date?


5/20/96


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Skins you've never see the Nitro match between Flair & Eddie yet? Oh man. Do it now.


Have no clue how I havent


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

This isn't some modern match either w/a boob & a square. This is FLAIR. _(and Eddie, but I'm emphasizing for your tastes)_


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

After watching how Trips was selling Bryan's onslaught huge tonight I have a little more faith in how they will gel together on Sunday. Now I do not underestimate Triple H's innate ability to drag a match down, however, if Bryan is allowed to let loose like we know he can his babyface performance can be something truly inspiring to behold. I'm looking more on the upside of this thing. On paper this has the potential to be another WrestleMania classic.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bryan's promo on the Backstage Pass was straight piff :bryan3

Seriously. How can you not be excited to see an actual star being made at Mania for the first time since 2005? How can you not be excited to see the payoff to this incredible saga? How can you not be excited to see the best underdog story in WWE history unfold itself?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm just going w/prior knowledge of both leading me along. It's very cut and dry in my mind. You got two distinct scenarios that seem to almost be a lock:

A) the typical Bryan Danielson association = great match scenario that he's done on seemingly countless occasions.
B) common mediocre or bad Triple H performance where he thinks he's doing a super job, but in reality couldn't be further from the truth & still decides to keep working that way.

If it somehow finds the middle ground, well, I won't go in expecting it, so consider my reaction to be on the more "didn't see that coming" side. I'm just not optimistic about much on the whole. Got Undertaker vs Brock & Cena vs Wyatt to look forward to. w/the rest either appearing bad on paper or garner no cares from me whatsoever. The real problem is how none of this _feels_ like WM. But tbhayley, if you would have asked me that at the start of the year, I already had the notion I'd feeling that this would be the turn out. Made the jab that the date of 1/4/14 was the night of my "real" WrestleMania for the year. Claim sustained.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I fully expect HHH/Bryan to be great, especially after tonight's closing segment and the beatdown a couple weeks ago. If they incorporate the intensity and selling of those two segments into the match it won't fail. The finishing stretch is pretty much guaranteed to be dramatic, Bryan will invariably produce a top level babyface performance and make Hunter's offense look good (or at least better than usual, he does that with everyone), and I have faith in Trips to come up with some worthwhile control work against the best FIP wrestler in the business. So yeah, if H sells Bryan's attacks as well as he did tonight it should be quality. Hopefully they don't overbook the finish to shit but a Stephanie interference wouldn't go amiss if done properly. If this fails to deliver then fuck, I'll be disappointed as hell.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Greatest match in the history of the sport? 99.9% says absolutely.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Watched Tenryu & Hansen vs. Baba & Kimura from RWTL '89 last night, and I cannot find a reason not to rate it five stars, tbf.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That Liger/Muta match is a wild one. Like when Liger powerbomb's Muta, and he just gets up lol.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck the Muta.

Fuck the WWE for not making me excited for WM XXX.

Fuck the people who don't go to my BLOG~! and check out my Perfect WrestleMania post :side:.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Fuck the people who don't go to my BLOG~! and check out my Perfect WrestleMania post :side:.


I checked out your blog yesterday and watched your big cal vs the streak video and :ti is all I have to say to that. 

Given up with your YouTube channel then? :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah my YT channel is pretty much dead. Their shitty cunty auto warning system prevents me from making videos with ANY kind of footage in them. Hell my first video with me DOING NOTHING BUT TALKING is "still under review" because they think I'm infringing some copyright. YT is too much of a pain in the arse to even bother with. FUCK THE YOUTUBE.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Not looking forward to Brock / Taker, Cal?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I am, but only because it's BROCK VS UNDERTAKER. Build up hasn't done anything to make me excited or anything.

This year is the first time since 08 I haven't been able to watch a WM live, so I'm kinda glad the show looks shite .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Exactly my thoughts, i'm excited cos it's Taker and Brock, i dunno i just have a niggle about it. I hope Taker busts out some MMA inspired moves and shakes it up a little bit tbh. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Not surprised about your YouTube. And with WWE taking a ton of content down from YouTube because of the Network now it's not a good place for anything wrestling related it seems. 

I'll be watching Mania live with mates as usual which should be good. But this is the first time in a few years I didn't bother to watch the go home show for Mania live, and judging by the comments in this thread it looks like I made the right decision.

Brock/Taker should be a great match, but the build has been underwhelming. But that's what it's been like for the last few streak matches, poor build, but the match delivers in the end.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Everyone watch Batista on the Press Conference, fucking gold :lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> This isn't some modern match either w/a boob & a square. This is FLAIR. _(and Eddie, but I'm emphasizing for your tastes)_


Match was marvelous, made my night after watching that crap shoot we call Raw. I still cant get over that Haitch video package last night :ti was that necessary ? You said Triple H is going through a mid-life crisis :banderas


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Fuck the Muta.
> 
> Fuck the WWE for not making me excited for WM XXX.
> 
> Fuck the people who don't go to my BLOG~! and check out my Perfect WrestleMania post :side:.



I read it, good work sir although my "Perfect WM" would look slightly different:

WWE Title match: Austin vs The Rock WM 17 ****3/4
WHC Title match: Benoit vs Triple H vs Michaels WM 20 *****
IC Title Match: Steamboat vs Savage WM 3 *****
Tag Team Title: TLC II at WM 17 ****1/4
Women's Title: Trish vs Mickie James ***1/2
Streak Match: Taker vs CM Punk WM 29 ****1/2
High Profile Match #1: Bret vs Owen WM 10 *****
High Profile Match #2: Chicago Street Fight WM 13 ****

I think I might have you beat Mr. Cal 

Hardest omission was Edge/Foley WM 22. I so badly wanted to find a way to get it in but I just couldn't find a suitable tag match not involving Edge.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You would have me beat if your ratings weren't far too high on most of the matches .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> You would have me beat if your ratings weren't far too high on most of the matches .


The only one I know you don't agree on is the Savage/Steamboat match, but I think that's because you're judging it far too harshly because of how far the sport has come since then. I don't care what anyone says Savage/Steamboat is just perfection. It still gives me goosebumps just watching it.

Do you not think as highly of Rock/Austin and the Chicago Street Fight?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Saw TLC II on Vintage the other day. Boy that match is piss.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WWE Title match: Austin vs The Rock WM 17 ****3/4 - "only" give this ****1/2, and think their WM XIX match is better, and Punk/Jericho is a better WWE title match at WM

WHC Title match: Benoit vs Triple H vs Michaels WM 20 ***** - ****1/4 for this. Definitely NOT a perfect ***** match

IC Title Match: Steamboat vs Savage WM 3 ***** - Lower rating at ****1/4, yes, but still the best IC title match in WM history with nothing coming close

Tag Team Title: TLC II at WM 17 ****1/4 - ***3/4 for this, WM 2000 ladder match is better.

Women's Title: Trish vs Mickie James ***1/2 - Yep yep.

Streak Match: Taker vs CM Punk WM 29 ****1/2 - Actually don't think as highly of this as you lol, only 1/4* difference. Obviously had better STREAK matches so I threw in the best.

High Profile Match #1: Bret vs Owen WM 10 ***** - No longer ***** for me but still awesome.

High Profile Match #2: Chicago Street Fight WM 13 **** - Huge fan of this but there are much better "high profile" matches from WM to pick.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm on the fence about this Sunday's event. Half of me says, "fuck it, it's Mania, get excited." Then I look at the matches on paper and get a little discouraged/set myself up for disappointment. In all honesty, this is how I feel about the matches:

Bryan/HHH = I think this will be fantastic. The storyline is there, and the fans will likely be rabid for this one. We haven't seen Triple H work a match as a heel in years, so I'm hoping he goes true to form for this one, with Bryan being the amazing underdog babyface that he is. Think this will be pretty awesome. HHH hitting The Pedigree is going to be such a great nearfall. :mark:

Cena/Wyatt = They've actually done a decent job with this. Wyatt has been great carrying the feud on the mic, and if we get anything close to the performance he gave in the ring @ RR then I think this should be pretty solid. Split crowd for this should also make it more entertaining, as I expect a lot of Cena hate/Wyatt love.

Orton/Batista/XXX = This will be enhanced no matter who gets added, but it's a pretty safe bet it will be Bryan, which hopefully leads to the ultimate WM moment.

Fatal Fourway tag = Wish Cesaro was getting onto the main card, but I'm not surprised given the lack of quality of the other opponents.  This could be fun, if not a complete clusterfuck.

Shield vs Kane/NAO = Cool to see NAO on a Mania again, but would've preferred better opponents for The Shield. We know they can deliver in 6-man tags, but I hope the opponents hold up their end of the bargain. Look for ROLLINS to go apeshit at some point. :mark:

Divas = Fuck.

Andre the Giant thing = This could be fun, at least. 

Lesnar/Taker = Despite the lackluster build, I'm hoping the match will deliver. Lesnar needs to overcome his reluctance and completely beat the shit out of Taker for the majority of the match. 

Is there anything else?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Tbh I'm most excited about Cena/Wyatt, as long as Cena turns up the aggression. I think that will be the key to that match. Cena (IMO) can work from the bottom just as well, if not better, than Daniel Bryan and what made the Wyatt/Bryan match so special was the difference between Bryan's usual, plucky babyface performance and his rabid, aggressive babyface performance here. I'm of the opinion that had Bryan worked the high octane, fastpaced MOVES babyface that we often see him play, the match wouldn't have been as good as it was. There's also the fantastic dynamic of Cena being someone who can match up with Wyatt physically (if not outdo him), but not coming close psychologically. In an ideal world, I would love to see this slow yet constant psychological progression from Cena where he realises that A) he starts off holding back and gets punished for it but realises he CAN get the better of Wyatt or B) he starts off confident (which seems likely given the Raw segment) but realises he doesn't stand a chance of psychologically getting the better of him.

The possibilities are endless when it comes to what route they could take, and there's several routes which would make for entertaining as hell bouts. But there's also a chance that it could somewhat bomb 

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a huge turn from the fans in terms of starting off the match booing Cena/cheering Wyatt and ending booing Wyatt and cheering Cena. Both are just that great. Well Cena is, Wyatt is still kinda' unproven but I wouldn't be surprised if he shocks all of us with how good he may turn out to be this sunday.

The whole feud has made me even more of a Cena mark. Also prefer the segments between the two leading up to Mania > the Hunter/Bryan segments. Both men have been stellar on the mic.
____________

Need some thing(s) to watch. Suggestions pls.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> WWE Title match: Austin vs The Rock WM 17 ****3/4 - "only" give this ****1/2, and think their WM XIX match is better, and Punk/Jericho is a better WWE title match at WM
> 
> WHC Title match: Benoit vs Triple H vs Michaels WM 20 ***** - ****1/4 for this. Definitely NOT a perfect ***** match
> 
> ...


FLUX: watch DDP/Benoit SuperBrawl 1998

Chicago Street Fight > Rey/Punk. I was going for variety, that's why I chose the Chicago street fight, I wanted something hardcore and wild, and with the only relevant Foley match unable to be picked, I went with that WM 13 match.

HBK/Benoit/Triple H > HHH/Booker for best WHC match in the history of WM, so that's why I picked it, regardless of what you think of it. It beats out my second favorite, Batista/Taker. I'd love to have used Batista/Taker as my Streak match but I guess having the WHC on the line sorta disqualifies it. 

Rocky/Austin > Jericho/Punk for best WWE title match in WM History. And I absolutely love that WM 28 match, but yea

HBK/Taker WM 26 > Punk/Taker, but not by much. You should have gone with WM 25.

Bret/Austin > Bret/Owen, but again, not by THAT much. Bret/Austin is #1 for best matches in WM History, and Owen/Bret is #3, IMHO.

TLC II = Triangle Ladder Match. It's really just preference, I don't even like either of these matches all that much, and would gladly have picked another Tag Team Title match if there were anything else even remotely in their league. I'd just as soon not have either of these matches on my card as they aren't my cup of tea.

Personally, I'd love to watch either one of our Manias, but I think mine has a bit more variety


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Chismo said:


> Watched Tenryu & Hansen vs. Baba & Kimura from RWTL '89 last night, and I cannot find a reason not to rate it five stars, tbf.


I could use a little more Baba in my life right now.



The Hitman said:


> That Liger/Muta match is a wild one. Like when Liger powerbomb's Muta, and he just gets up lol.


Insanity riddled no sell. Good vs Evil done in the greatest way possible. :mark:



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Fuck the Muta.
> 
> Fuck the WWE for not making me excited for WM XXX.
> 
> Fuck the people who don't go to my BLOG~! and check out my Perfect WrestleMania post :side:.


Fuck yo...

BLOG? ANYTHING w/THAT STREAK STUFF YET?



SKINS said:


> Match was marvelous, made my night after watching that crap shoot we call Raw. I still cant get over that Haitch video package last night :ti was that necessary ? You said Triple H is going through a mid-life crisis :banderas


(Y)

and yep. Man is in a crisis right now people. It's best to avoid!



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I read it, good work sir although my "Perfect WM" would look slightly different:
> 
> WWE Title match: Austin vs The Rock WM 17 ****3/4
> WHC Title match: Benoit vs Triple H vs Michaels WM 20 *****
> ...


CHICAGO STREET FIGHT



The Lady Killer said:


> I'm on the fence about this Sunday's event. Half of me says, "fuck it, it's Mania, get excited." Then I look at the matches on paper and get a little discouraged/set myself up for disappointment. In all honesty, this is how I feel about the matches:
> 
> Bryan/HHH = I think this will be fantastic. The storyline is there, and the fans will likely be rabid for this one. We haven't seen Triple H work a match as a heel in years, so I'm hoping he goes true to form for this one, with Bryan being the amazing underdog babyface that he is. Think this will be pretty awesome. HHH hitting The Pedigree is going to be such a great nearfall. :mark:
> 
> ...


Greg's optimism is here to even me out.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's what I do best :hb


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> That's what I do best :hb


My question is, why couldn't they have just done something like Henry vs Cesaro instead of throwing him in that dumb tag match? If WWE wasn't gonna go all out and give us Real Americans vs The Shield (Rollins + Reigns) or Wyatt Family (Harper and Rowan) then why not put a future star in a match with a former world champ who is doing nothing? Stick Swagger in the Battle Royal and have him do well, or better yet stick him with Ziggler. But Cesaro should be featured on this card, Vince has said he wants WM 30 to be "a look into the future instead of the past"....why not highlight your 3 biggest "future stars" (Bryan, Cesaro, Reigns) in the best way possible? UGHHH. I'm gonna get excited no matter what cause it's Mania, but how anyone can view this Mania as anything other than a massively wasted opportunity for greatness is beyond me. Even if every single match on the card maxes out its potential, it wouldn't even SNIFF the proper Mania card we should have gotten:

Cena/Taker
Bryan/Lesnar for the WWE title (Bryan won the Rumble, Lesnar won the EC)
Orton/Batista/Triple H with Flair as the referee (Evolution Triple Threat)
Shield/Wyatt's TLC Match
Cody/Goldust
Cesaro vs Henry/Sheamus/ADR/Ziggler/Christian etc
Divas Match
Battle Royal

Or something like that. You get my drift. Massive wasted opportunity no matter how good the card ends up being.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lesnar vs Danielson _(or Lesnar vs Punk for the Championship as another projected fantasy; he probably would have stayed if so...chuckles, k lets move on)_ plan. That's the one that should have happened. The Evolution squabble is actually a good way to lump those knobs together w/o it effecting anything else. Basically the thing we're getting already. And it keeps all three out of the championship picture. If only that was a reality.

And I know. The Cesaro situation doesn't compute. He'll probably turn face after the match to have his moment, but just odd to see him not even on the "official" card after the treatment he was getting for about a month. I know it's not actually _odd_. It's just WWE booking.

Wouldn't stop Cena vs Bray from happening. That's too swell. WWE wants to make Bray into someone it seems. I'm not going to cut that down. Dunno what that meant for Taker in my "well if I was booking plan" but he's so huge that it wouldn't be hard to find something to work.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I've said it many of times, I have no clue why we haven't had even the slightest Evolution interaction this entire build or past few months. There honestly isn't a reason not to have done it. Its just plan stupidity


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> The Lesnar vs Danielson _(or Lesnar vs Punk for the Championship as another projected fantasy; he probably would have stayed if so...chuckles, k lets move on)_ plan. That's the one that should have happened. The Evolution squabble is actually a good way to lump those knobs together w/o it effecting anything else. Basically the thing we're getting already. And it keeps all three out of the championship picture. If only that was a reality.
> 
> And I know. The Cesaro situation doesn't compute. He'll probably turn face after the match to have his moment, but just odd to see him not even on the "official" card after the treatment he was getting for about a month. I know it's not actually _odd_. It's just WWE booking.
> 
> Wouldn't stop Cena vs Bray from happening. That's too swell. WWE wants to make Bray into someone it seems. I'm not going to cut that down. Dunno what that meant for Taker in my "well if I was booking plan" but he's so huge that it wouldn't be hard to find something to work.



See I think Cena/Bray is a match that's not going anywhere. They could build to that match as the MAIN EVENT of Summerslam, or even do a slow burn and have it main event WM 31. Bray is just awesome, Cena isn't going anywhere, so while I'm excited to see them work, I think this might have been a bit too soon. Maybe I'm selfish, but I would have loved to see a longer, more fulfilling build. Look how good it is with the little time they have gotten? Imagine a slow burn for 2 months or more? And Taker only has 1 or 2 left in him, I just think WM 30, Cena vs Taker for the Streak....how do you get any bigger than that? Just the opening stand off would be on of those deals where I can't sit down. I gotta stand up. Anyone else ever get that way? When you just mark out so bad you just have to stand in front of the TV like an idiot, maybe giggling a bit? Yea that's what I envisioned Cena/Taker at WM 30 would be like.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> FLUX: watch DDP/Benoit SuperBrawl 1998
> 
> Chicago Street Fight > Rey/Punk. I was going for variety, that's why I chose the Chicago street fight, I wanted something hardcore and wild, and with the only relevant Foley match unable to be picked, I went with that WM 13 match.
> 
> ...


For me, I based my card around NEEDING to have HBK/Undertaker on there as the Streak match (and main event). With Undertaker and HBK used up, that prevented me from using a match like the triple threat, WM 23 Vs Batista and WM 24 Vs Edge as WHC matches. So the next best one, and a match that doesn't use up anyone who I'd actively want on the card elsewhere, was HHH/Booker (and a match I love anyway). Austin/Bret was another match I felt I NEEDED on there (Taker/HBK WM 26 and Austin/Bret Wm 13 are my #1 and #2 WM matches ever, so wanted them there), and of course that eliminates Austin for the WM 19 Rock match as a high profile match and WM 17 Rock match as WWE title match, though luckily I think Punk/Jericho is better anyway . From there it was just me filling the gaps with whatever I had left, making sure I used up the best matches I possibly could given the limitations. Was a fun little project, and something I wanna do more. Since I'm doing these PPV year Rambles, I think after each year I'll assemble a perfect PPV for that year, like I did for 2000, though I *think* I did 2000 BEFORE my rambles so I might have to re-work that, then do 01, 02 and 03 as well.

Cody, the STREAK post for my WM Week will be on THURSDAY .


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

When we're this close to Mania I try to look forward to it as much as I can. Particularly because I have to try to get my friends, who I sometimes watch PPV's with, excited for the show because they're casuals and they don't know too much about what matches are on the card and stuff. And even if WrestleMania underwhelms me, which the last two Mania's have done tbh, it's still a good time watching the experience live with friends and I'd recommend it to anyone. Much better than watching a PPV by yourself.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> The Lesnar vs Danielson _(or Lesnar vs Punk for the Championship as another projected fantasy; he probably would have stayed if so...chuckles, k lets move on)_ plan. That's the one that should have happened. The Evolution squabble is actually a good way to lump those knobs together w/o it effecting anything else. Basically the thing we're getting already. And it keeps all three out of the championship picture. If only that was a reality.
> 
> And I know. The Cesaro situation doesn't compute. He'll probably turn face after the match to have his moment, but just odd to see him not even on the "official" card after the treatment he was getting for about a month. I know it's not actually _odd_. It's just WWE booking.
> 
> Wouldn't stop Cena vs Bray from happening. That's too swell. WWE wants to make Bray into someone it seems. I'm not going to cut that down.* Dunno what that meant for Taker in my "well if I was booking plan"* but he's so huge that it wouldn't be hard to find something to work.


:sheamus

i know it, you know it, everybody knows it.

have a feeling that once Taker's career is all said and done, this will be one of my biggest dream matches to never happen and it breaks my little heart


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

- I expect Taker/Lesnar & Bryan/HHH to be great.
- Cena/Wyatt could be really good
- Weather it becomes a 3-way or 4-way Orton & Batista's involvement makes me put my expectations low on this match, maybe Bryan and/or HHH & the crowd could change this. I really want to be proven wrong.
- I don't know about Shield/Authority, I'm questioning Kane/The Outlaws part in the match.
- Battle Royal could be ok, never liked battle royals as they start as cluterf*cks and remain so most of the match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I hear what you guys are saying about Cesaro. I'm pretty miffed that he's stuck on the pre-show with 7 jobbers, but it is what it is. They should've split Real Americans prior to Mania, or at least had Cesaro pull double duty and win the Andre the Giant Memorial. That, or tell the other three teams to fuck off entirely, and have RA face off against Harper/Rowan for the titles (one of those two teams should be champs atm).

I'm still optimistic we'll get Lesnar/Bryan at some point, though I agree it would've been awesome @ Mania for the title. They kinda dropped the ball on the whole "Lesnar wanting to be champ" thing.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

bme said:


> - I expect Taker/Lesnar & Bryan/HHH to be great.
> - Cena/Wyatt could be really good
> - Weather it becomes a 3-way or 4-way Orton & Batista's involvement makes me put my expectations low on this match, maybe Bryan and/or HHH & the crowd could change this. I really want to be proven wrong.
> - I don't know about Shield/Authority, I'm questioning Kane/The Outlaws part in the match.
> - Battle Royal could be ok, never liked battle royals as they start as cluterf*cks and remain so most of the match.


Battle royal should be fun, would be the ideal match to put on first to get the crowd excited for the rest of show by having a fast-paced and action-packed match to open. Keep it relatively quick and it should be fine. My money's on Rusev winning it, as he would have the most to gain from it given that he's new and after the weeks of promoting him on RAW and Smackdown it would be smart to have him debut at Mania and immediately make a impact, rather than the typical wait until after Mania debut.



The Lady Killer said:


> I'm still optimistic we'll get Lesnar/Bryan at some point, though I agree it would've been awesome @ Mania for the title. They kinda dropped the ball on the whole "Lesnar wanting to be champ" thing.


I'm sure they'll bring that up again after Mania. Brock to challenge for the WWE World Title at Summerslam maybe? I could see that happening, as I can't see what other direction they would take him.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I agree w/you Nostalgia. I kinda view the Battle Royale in the same vein as King of the Ring - geared towards molding an up and coming future star. An established star (Sheamus, Christian, Big Show, etc) really has nothing to gain from this - they're just thrown in there to give the match some name value and because there was nothing else for them on the card. I can see establishing Rusev by having him win and immediately giving him a platform to launch from. The only other outcome is to have someone who has fallen from grace (Ziggler) win to reignite a push.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

The Battle Royal & 4-way are what has me scratching my head.

You have the USOs and Real American who instead of being on the ppv are featured on the Preshow.
You then have at least half the wrestlers in the BR who should be featured better.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Guess they were worried about time, which is why all of the upper carders got thrown into the Battle Royale rather than thrown into rushed feuds.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What else is there for Brock after Mania? Batista lol. :argh:

Brock/Bryan is something id like to see.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, I agree w/you Nostalgia. I kinda view the Battle Royale in the same vein as King of the Ring - geared towards molding an up and coming future star. An established star (Sheamus, Christian, Big Show, etc) really has nothing to gain from this - they're just thrown in there to give the match some name value and because there was nothing else for them on the card. I can see establishing Rusev by having him win and immediately giving him a platform to launch from. The only other outcome is to have someone who has fallen from grace (Ziggler) win to reignite a push.




Here is the question no one has mentioned yet: WHY THE FUCK ISNT SAMI ZAYN ON THE MAIN ROSTER?!?! Rey is bound for retirement soon anyways, you're telling me they couldn't have him pass whatever torch he has left to Zayn in a 15 minute opener? The fuck WWE, this shit is NOT complicated. Zayn is one of the best wrestlers in the world. He just proved it at Arrival by having a match I seriously doubt will be topped for the 2014 MotY unless we get Bryan/Lesnar. Why isn't he getting a big debut at Mania? You gave one to freaking Fandango last year and had him go over a multi time world champ in Jericho for Christ sakes. Zayn is atleast 1,000 million times better than Fandango.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, that's a good question. Maybe they don't want his debut to be overshadowed? That, or they have Rusev "debuting" and don't want them both to debut? Who knows, in all honesty. I hope Zayn debuts the Raw after Mania.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Zayn 1000 million times better than Fandango? Are you high? You must be, because that number is far too LOW.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Speaking of Zayn, did WOOLCOCK ever give his fuckin review of Zayn/Cesaro? :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> See I think Cena/Bray is a match that's not going anywhere. They could build to that match as the MAIN EVENT of Summerslam, or even do a slow burn and have it main event WM 31. Bray is just awesome, Cena isn't going anywhere, so while I'm excited to see them work, I think this might have been a bit too soon. Maybe I'm selfish, but I would have loved to see a longer, more fulfilling build. Look how good it is with the little time they have gotten? Imagine a slow burn for 2 months or more? And Taker only has 1 or 2 left in him, I just think WM 30, Cena vs Taker for the Streak....how do you get any bigger than that? Just the opening stand off would be on of those deals where I can't sit down. I gotta stand up. Anyone else ever get that way? When you just mark out so bad you just have to stand in front of the TV like an idiot, maybe giggling a bit? Yea that's what I envisioned Cena/Taker at WM 30 would be like.


It is, if the WWE keeps the use of Bray sustained. Clearly he should be winning this to legitimize him to the highest degree, but the match itself is a step in the proper direction. And I'm not going to be reluctant in having to accept short-term booking b/c, that's just how it goes these days. Could it be better w/longer build? Hypothetically, sure. Of course. We have what we have, and it's the best built match on the show, tbf - not like it is saying THAT much - so Cena vs Bray is looking to have the proper accomplishment set. If Cena isn't in the championship picture, use his worth in an area such as this. I like it.

I'm so whatever on the Cena vs Undertaker plan b/c I know it's this unusual reality too many fans have put in their head. I'm never getting sucked into the fallacy of life. WWE will never do it.



Flux said:


> :sheamus
> 
> i know it, you know it, everybody knows it.
> 
> have a feeling that once Taker's career is all said and done, this will be one of my biggest dream matches to never happen and it breaks my little heart


See, just that easy. My heart flutters at the thought of that match.

Zayn is BITW, but I have no objections w/him being on NXT. He's still got plenty of years left in him, he's not at risk of being lost in the shuffle _(look at Cesaro, guys)_ & the company clearly has been impressed w/him. I have all the time in the world to wait for him to burst on through into the main roster. b/c he's the absolute number one that I'll be patient for until the end.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

The Lady Killer said:


> Guess they were worried about time, which is why all of the upper carders got thrown into the Battle Royale rather than thrown into rushed feuds.


I understand the time constraints but with a BR few wrestlers are gonna get time to shine. Hopefully eliminations start quick


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I'm guessing a lot of the jobbers/comedic talents get weeded out fairly quickly. I don't see the match lasting longer than like 15 minutes tbh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Zayn 1000 million times better than Fandango? Are you high? You must be, because that number is far too LOW.


:mark:



The Lady Killer said:


> Speaking of Zayn, did WOOLCOCK ever give his fuckin review of Zayn/Cesaro? :lmao


He will see it in 2065 on his death bed. Finally giving us the thumbs up.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

ZAYN


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> :mark:
> 
> 
> 
> He will see it in 2065 on his death bed. Finally giving us the thumbs up.


If he don't watch it soon, he'll be on his death bed a hell of a lot quicker than 2065 :side:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FUTURE OF THE BIZ


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, I agree w/you Nostalgia. I kinda view the Battle Royale in the same vein as King of the Ring - geared towards molding an up and coming future star. An established star (Sheamus, Christian, Big Show, etc) really has nothing to gain from this - they're just thrown in there to give the match some name value and because there was nothing else for them on the card. I can see establishing Rusev by having him win and immediately giving him a platform to launch from. The only other outcome is to have someone who has fallen from grace (Ziggler) win to reignite a push.


Ziggler would be my second pick because he could actually benefit from it too - as he's fallen from grace but recently has been picking up a few wins, and win for him at WrestleMania could make a nice comeback in his career for him. One issue I have with this battle royal though is it's not for anything, other than a silly trophy. :side: If they gave the winner a future shot at title, that would mean a lot more and it would give more reason for why top guys like Sheamus are participating in the match. Speaking of Sheamus, I could see him winning just from the point of view that he's one of the top guys who doesn't have a meaningful match at WrestleMania, so they'll give him the win, I hope that doesn't happen though because that would be pointless. 



The Hitman said:


> What else is there for Brock after Mania? Batista lol. :argh:
> 
> Brock/Bryan is something id like to see.


Yeah, I thought about Brock/Batista. I know it's a match that no one wants to see on here, but it's a big match regardless between two big stars who have never faced each other before. So because of that, I reckon it will happen. If Batista's champ then they could do that match for the title, if not, Brock could beat Batista and then go on a face the WWE Champion, which would likely be Bryan if it's not Batista, and maybe then we'll see the Brock/Bryan match that so many people want to see.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Here is the question no one has mentioned yet: WHY THE FUCK ISNT SAMI ZAYN ON THE MAIN ROSTER?!?! Rey is bound for retirement soon anyways, you're telling me they couldn't have him pass whatever torch he has left to Zayn in a 15 minute opener? The fuck WWE, this shit is NOT complicated. Zayn is one of the best wrestlers in the world. He just proved it at Arrival by having a match I seriously doubt will be topped for the 2014 MotY unless we get Bryan/Lesnar. Why isn't he getting a big debut at Mania? You gave one to freaking Fandango last year and had him go over a multi time world champ in Jericho for Christ sakes. Zayn is atleast 1,000 million times better than Fandango.


He'll likely debut after Mania when the usual call-ups happen. Patience friend.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've banked on Sheamus winning from the start. Yes, the Rusev red herring is out there. But, I don't think it'll go down.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Because it screams typical WWE. :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If we're going down that path, then Rusev winning is 100% obvious. Looking towards Fandango last year, that is. :hmm:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

We can see what a trophy can do for a midcarder though.

*insert Owen Hart slammy pic here*

It could turn out better than expected (as long as a heel wins)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think everyone is overlooking a certain someone who was added to the match after Raw...

BRAD MADDOX :mark:.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

MADDOX :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I did think The Big Show was winning it TBH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Maddox to have the greatest elimination after he cuts a promo mid-match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Is Maddox still the Raw GM btw? :lmao


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hoping maddox will eliminate a giant like Show and then get destroyed a la Maven in the rumble 2002

Might start Rebellion 2000 later..


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The answer is YES, Cal. :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> The answer is YES, Cal. :lmao


That actually makes me :mark: a little :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Be back in full power this coming Monday plz.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

"MONDAY NIGHT RAW FEATURING BRAD MADDOX"

We need to see much, much much much much much less of "the authority" on WWE after WM, and more of just "Raw GM" and "SD GM"... ON THEIR OWN SHOWS ONLY. Sick of other people showing up and taking over all the time. That episode of Raw last year where HHH and Steph were "away", and Kane, Maddox (THE RAW GM) and Vickie were all arguing who was in charge of RAW was fucking terrible.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If Triple H loses to Danielson, boom. Promo the next night(this doesn't even NEED to happen, tbhayley, but you know...), walk of shame, be around in a limited supply for a bit. That's the proper way to go. Maddox is there. Use him.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

WWE always want Sheamus doing something significant. So if he wins, it will be typical WWE. It's clear Rusev is going to be pushed as a monster heel and monster heels get built up for many months and if they want to make a impact with him right away, him winning the battle royal would be the way to go. Depends on how high they are on him though, idk.

And :lmao at Brad Maddox being in.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rusev should just tap Ziggler out the night after WM if they wanna put him over. Sheamus should win the battle royal since he's above being in this shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus should be doing something better at WM, so it's their own fault for giving us an expected outcome. 100% supporting it though. Sheamus is terrific.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Rusev should just tap Ziggler out the night after WM if they wanna put him over. Sheamus should win the battle royal since he's above being in this shit.


Beating Ziggler isn't gonna put him over much. He'd get more out of beating Santino or 3MB .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> WWE always want Sheamus doing something significant. So if he wins, it will be typical WWE. It's clear Rusev is going to be pushed as a monster heel and monster heels get built up for many months and if they want to make a impact with him right away, him winning the battle royal would be the way to go. Depends on how high they are on him though, idk.
> 
> And :lmao at Brad Maddox being in.



You forgot about the part where Rusev inevitably gets fed to Cena at a "B" PPV and is next seen in a comedy tag team with Santino as "The Crazy Wacky Foreign Guys!" :side:

What are your alls thoughts on Rusev anyway? Haven't really seen enough of him to form an opinion.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Think C2D said that because Ziggler will likely be over as fuck on the Raw after Mania per usual.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He seems great at standing on a box. Props to him for that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Think C2D said that because Ziggler will likely be over as fuck on the Raw after Mania per usual.


And it was a joke in reference to a couple of months ago when that actually happened in a DARK MATCH. :lmao

I miss the days of WWE finding new ways to outdo themselves in their mission to bury Ziggler.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You forgot about the part where Rusev inevitably gets fed to Cena at a "B" PPV and is next seen in a comedy tag team with Santino as "The Crazy Wacky Foreign Guys!" :side:
> 
> What are your alls thoughts on Rusev anyway? Haven't really seen enough of him to form an opinion.


No I'm not actually. But before that happens monsters heels are built up very strong (Umaga, Koslov, Khali) before WWE messes them up and Rusev will likely be built up a similar way.

And I kinda dig Rusev. Pretty decent and athletic big man performer from what I've seen of him on NXT and his performance in the Rumble. His foreign/monster heel character has been done to death though. I like his pairing with Lana though, and he's got a awesome entrance theme:








DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> He seems great at standing on a box. Props to him for that.


:lmao

And I'll add that his manager Lana is hot as fuck.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rusev is awesome. The hypothetical jokey Dolph match scenario would work b/c it did for his debut match on NXT & it was a total "coming out party".


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I liked what I saw out of Rusev at the Rumble, so I'm definitely going to be interested in what he does when he debuts.

As for the Andre battle royal, Rusev is in it? If so, I could see him winning, although they'll probably give Sheamus the win because they like giving Sheamus nice things. Hoping for a Ziggler win, but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> I liked what I saw out of Rusev at the Rumble, so I'm definitely going to be interested in what he does when he debuts.
> 
> As for the Andre battle royal, Rusev is in it? If so, I could see him winning, although they'll probably give Sheamus the win because they like giving Sheamus nice things. Hoping for a Ziggler win, but I'm not holding my breath.



I thought Big Show was gonna win when they first announced it. Now I think Show, Rusev, and Sheamus are really the only 3 viable candidates to win it.

Anyone have a good Regal WCW PPV match I could watch? Other than the Steamboat FB and Finlay UN matches that is....

Also, this might be a weird thing to have a preference about, but does anyone else really love the way the WCW rings sounded compared to the modern WWE ring? The old WCW rings had that nice wooden sound when dudes got slammed on the mat, the new WWE rings just sound like metal roofing or something. I don't know, just something I've noticed, older rings sounded much better.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> If Triple H loses to Danielson, boom. Promo the next night(this doesn't even NEED to happen, tbhayley, but you know...), walk of shame, *be around in a limited supply for a bit*. That's the proper way to go.


C'mon you know this ain't gonna happen. :lmao



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Anyone have a good Regal WCW PPV match I could watch? Other than the Steamboat FB and Finlay UN matches that is....


v. Ultimo slamboree 97


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jheri I have to make posts like that to hide myself from reality.

Regal vs Ultimo is boss. The other obvious pick is the clash vs Sting from GAB '96.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

or the Network could stop being a willy and put up some not-PPVs so the amazing Regal/Zbyszko match can be watched. Looking at my WCW list, why did I have it at #38? It's probably every bit as good as Regal/Finlay and that was my #10. Re-doing that list would be really interesting.

Regal and Zbyszko's Slamboree match is pretty great as well, at least. And their Clash match. Regal was so spectacular in 1994; it's probably his best year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Really don't remember any of those Regal matches being on par w/the Finlay match(es) from 1996. But, it's not like I've watched them half as much or half as often. That and Larry isn't fucking Finlay.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Some 1996 or 1997 WCW ppv matches plz, only stuff ive really seen is the rey stuff I saw on his DVD plus Hog Wild,Starrcade, and Uncensored 96 in full


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bash at the Beach 1996 & 1997 are musts. Especially 1997. Slamboree & GAB 1997 rule too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> or the Network could stop being a willy and put up some not-PPVs so the amazing Regal/Zbyszko match can be watched. Looking at my WCW list, why did I have it at #38? It's probably every bit as good as Regal/Finlay and that was my #10. Re-doing that list would be really interesting.
> 
> Regal and Zbyszko's Slamboree match is pretty great as well, at least. And their Clash match. Regal was so spectacular in 1994; it's probably his best year.



I might have to take off work for 2 days whenever WWE gets around to putting the Clash's up on the Network. And when they put up Nitros, I might just quit work all together 

So Regal/Ultimo Slamboree 1997 and Regal/Sting GAB 1996 are the way to go then. Sounds like a perfect way to kill the next 45 min until my gf gets off work. Thanks guys (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Loved the HAITCH video package. Sold his dominance to a bunch of new fans who haven't watched HHH perform besides his part time work over the last four years in which his record is 3-5 .

I'm actually pretty excited for Wrestlemania, even if the build for Brock Vs Taker has been complete shit and I can't get over how badly they've fucked it up. Brock better fucking own Taker for 90 percent of that match or I can't even deal with the stupidity. Cena Vs Wyatt is a great program that I really enjoy, with the winner being up in the air and not completely obvious (well, it IS CENA after all), while at the same time both men are cutting dynamic promos.

The HHH-Bryan-Orton-Batista arc has been going on since Summerslam, let Bryan get his Wrestlemania moment and have HHH chase him for a while before moving onto something else, HHH Vs Cena & Bryan Vs Brock for the title? Orton's probably going to be done with the strap for a while after Sunday as I'd imagine the belt would have to go from Bryan to a heel to another face before it makes it's way back to Orton.

Speaking of matches though, I've been trucking along through a boatload of Orton since he is the defending world champion and all. 2014 has been a very good year for Randy outside of the Rumble match with Cena, I have yet to see the Survivor Series match with Big Show though so his last 8 months as a whole could sour with that match looming, but maybe not since it was doomed from the beginning due to nobody wanting to see face Big Show win the belt as a surrogate to Daniel Bryan. TLC match with Cena was just Orton and Cena going out and killing each other like a Michael Bay movie with explosions and helicopters and shit, pure entertainment value at the face but a lack in substance that keeps it from being a good/great affair. Might as well throw out the stars for the second disc on Orton's DVD though;

Ohio Valley Wrestling 1/31/01: Randy Orton vs. Slick Robbie D ~ ***

SmackDown 4/25/02: Randy Orton vs. Hardcore Holly ~ ** 3/4*

Unforgiven 2003: Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels ~ **** 1/4*

Armageddon 2003: Randy Orton vs. Intercontinental Champion Rob Van Dam ~ **** 1/2*

WrestleMania XX: Randy Orton, Ric Flair & Batista vs. The Rock & Mick Foley ~ **** 1/4*

Backlash 2004: No Holds Barred Falls Count Anywhere Match - Intercontinental Champion Randy Orton vs. Mick Foley ~ ***** 1/4*

Vengeance 2004: Intercontinental Champion Randy Orton vs. Edge ~ **** 1/2*

No Mercy 2005: Handicap Casket Match - Randy Orton & Bob Orton vs. Undertaker ~ **** 1/2*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Too low on the Backlash & Casket matches. 

Randy in 2014 has been great with the only exception being the UC match, which is also when they started giving him the worst booking imaginable. Just put him in a match with BROCK, I'm not asking for much!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kind of are, actually.

Punchline smiley.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:ti here you go


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I, for the record am still on the Orton hate train

Ooh he got good matches out of Danielson and Cesaro! put him with anyone thats not a GREAT worker and the match will suck 

#dealwithit 8*D


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Too low on the Backlash & Casket matches.
> 
> (


Yea, for Foley to say the Backlash 2004 match was the best of his career (it's not, Mindgames and RR Street Fight top it IMHO) it has to be a damn special match. Personally I gave it the full 5 when I last saw it. Easily Ortons best match ever though, with the 2 Benoit SD matches in 2006 coming in after it. I need to rewatch his Armageddon 2005 match with Taker though, that might top the Benoit matches.



SMITTY said:


> I, for the record am still on the Orton hate train
> 
> Ooh he got good matches out of Danielson and Cesaro! put him with anyone thats not a GREAT worker and the match will suck
> 
> #dealwithit 8*D


Orton just isn't in to giving a shit when he's in the ring with a lesser opponent. You see a massive drop off in his heelish tendencies and a massive uptick in headlocks and bullshit. Whatever, Orton can be great when he wants to be, I think he will do fine in the Main Event of Mania. It's Batista I'm worried about.


Not to sound like Funnyfaces, but I'm about halfway through Sting/Regal GAB (finished Slamboree vs Dragon. Fucking awesome) and this might be one of the biggest carry jobs I can ever recall seeing. This match rules, but dammit it's ENTIRELY because of Regal. Sting is doing NOTHING, absolutely nothing, and Regal is just stealing the show even so.. Love him turning to the camera every few minutes and talking shit. And his face when the ref busts him with his leg on the ropes....priceless :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Regal/Sting is the ULTIMATE carry job. Regal gives Sting probably a top 5 match of his entire career and Sting could have been replaced with a fucking pillow and it would have been the same :lmao. REGAL RULES. Never forget.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

was watching Uncensored 96 the other day and apparently Finlay had a match with Savage on nitro the next night, has anyone seen it?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

no way that's a top 5 Sting match. You suck and underrate the Vader matches. And you suck as well.



SMITTY said:


> was watching Uncensored 96 the other day and apparently Finlay had a match with Savage on nitro the next night, has anyone seen it?


me in 2011 (same post as the Uncensored tag I re-posted):



> Fit Finlay v Randy Savage (Nitro 25/3/96)
> --Six or seven minutes, but it's FINLAY and SAVAGE going six or seven minutes. This was the night after Uncensored, where Fit had smashed up Regal's nose with a forearm (I remember it being a fist, though, they're building it as a forearm anyway) and he controls most of the match. When he lays in the forearms it's great, the commentators fly off like "there it is, the forearm that got Regal" or something, and Macho was selling it like a total drunk. Savage's winning comeback almost came out of nowhere since he got almost no offense in, but Finlay was wiggling during the three count instead of laying there dead so it looked more believable that way. Fun match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Yea, for Foley to say the Backlash 2004 match was the best of his career (it's not, Mindgames and RR Street Fight top it IMHO) it has to be a damn special match. Personally I gave it the full 5 when I last saw it. Easily Ortons best match ever though, with the 2 Benoit SD matches in 2006 coming in after it. I need to rewatch his Armageddon 2005 match with Taker though, that might top the Benoit matches.


I think I agree with Foley in that regard. I am not a big fan of the RR street fight and highly enjoyed Mind Games as well as most of the Taker series. But none of them have the enjoyment and replay value of Backlash 04. This is a bit left field but my second fav Foley match is probably the I Quit with ROCK.

And it took me a couple of watches to truly appreciate Orton/Benoit from 13/1 but I really love it now. Rewatched it a few days ago and it's simply incredible and worked completely different to any other Orton match I've seen. He's got a lot of undiscovered talent. Nobody would guess that he can mat wrestle but then you watch that match and he proves everyone wrong. Not much of a surprise since he did amateur wrestling for a while in his teen years.

Had the Benoit match at #13 when I did my Orton list last summer but now I'd probably move it up to the top 5.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks, gonna have to watch that soon (Y) 

SVS 2000 has been a dreadful show 3 matches in, two bad tags and a fun Kane/Jericho match


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah SVS 00 blows outside of Kane/Jericho and Undertaker/Angle. Rock/Kish is watchable, but nowhere near as good as I once thought it was.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Speaking of Orton, I think his career has enough highs for me to piece together a top 50 or 100 in the distant future once I have watched enough, think of it almost as a rebuttal to the C2D list. I don't know what he didn't watch and what he did watch, but I might start piecing this along now that the semester is soon over and I'm going to have mountains of free time. Last year I watched every Brock match, most Cena matches, and most Henry matches to generate some lists and I uncovered a whole bunch of hidden gems (mainly from Henry to be honest, the guy goes out there and carries people like Miz to great matches for fuck sakes, dude is rarely anything but quality) and I'm guessing that an Orton project would be a really up and down ride.

He gets enough criticism and subsequent praise to warrant a closer look at his career so that I can rightfully determine where I feel Orton's place in history is and whether or not he deserves the hate/love that he gets from the fans.

There's no way I'm sitting through 928 Orton Vs Barrett matches though. NO. FUCKING. WAY. :lol :lol :lol

Randy Orton Vs Goldust (RAW 9/9/13. I'm bad with TV dates so GTFO) ~ **** 1/4*

Checking out the Cody match from a week before this right now, but I thought Goldust's return match was pretty damn good for a RAW main event, with Orton putting just enough heel jargon in here with his offense to make it effective, and Dustin busting out some pretty good and diverse offense compared to the rest of the roster. The Cross Rhodes at the end was a brilliant near fall that had me wondering if Dustin was going to win even to this day, and the match featured Orton moving into a desperation type offense towards the end of the bout to combat Goldust's fiery comeback attempt. Quality.


----------



## Big Pete (Jul 23, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> Some 1996 or 1997 WCW ppv matches plz, only stuff ive really seen is the rey stuff I saw on his DVD plus Hog Wild,Starrcade, and Uncensored 96 in full


Let me see...

Rey Mysterio Jr v Dean Malenko - Great American Bash
Chris Benoit v Kevin Sullivan - Great American Bash
Rey Mysterio Jr v Psichosis - Bash at the Beach 
Rey Mysterio Jr v Ultimo Dragon - World War III

Are all must sees otherwise there is...

Diamond Dallas Page v Johnny B Badd - Superbrawl
Randy Savage v Ric Flair - Superbrawl
Konnan v Eddie Guerrero - Uncensored
Belfast Brawler v Steven Regal - Uncensored
Sting v The Giant - Slamboree
Sting v Steven Regal - GAB
Flair/Anderson v Mongo/Green - GAB
Malenko v Disco - Bash at the Beach
DDP v Chavo Guerrero - Fall Brawl
Juventud Guerrera v Konnan - Fall Brawl
Chris Jericho v Chris Benoit - Fall Brawl
Rey Mysterio v Super Calo - Fall Brawl
WarGames - Fall Brawl (or alternatively, watch Fall Brawl, arguably the best show of the year)
Rey Mysterio v Dean Malenko - Halloween Havoc
Chris Benoit/Steve McMichael v Faces of Fear - Halloween Havoc
Amazing French Canadians v Harlem Heat - World War III
Nick Patrick v Chris Jericho - World War III
Dean Malenko v Ultimo Dragon - Starrcade
Chris Benoit v Jeff Jarrett - Starrcade

Not a huge fan of every match listed (ie Finlay/Regal) but others enjoyed them and they're worth watching. 

As for a Nitro hidden gem, try and find Steven Regal v Psichosis from December 96. I'd rate it on par with Flair/Eddie.

Another hidden gem worth watching - Hector/Benoit from November 96 is basically better than any Eddie/Benoit match I saw from WCW that year. Of course, it doesn't touch their NJPW from June of that year, but I mean, what else possibly could?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Not to sound like Funnyfaces, but I'm about halfway through Sting/Regal GAB (finished Slamboree vs Dragon. Fucking awesome) and this might be one of the biggest carry jobs I can ever recall seeing. This match rules, but dammit it's ENTIRELY because of Regal. Sting is doing NOTHING, absolutely nothing, and Regal is just stealing the show even so.. Love him turning to the camera every few minutes and talking shit. And his face when the ref busts him with his leg on the ropes....priceless :lmao


Nothing wrong with sounding like me. Especially when you're just writing a true statement. Like Cal said, Regal could have wrestled a pillow and it would have been just as amazing. It's also how I feel about the Rey/Eddie 2005 feud though :side:. Eddie could have feuded with a pillow, or even worse, he could have feuded with UC, and it wouldn't have mattered. Eddie would still have put on an all-time great heel performance, while I still can't recall a single impressive thing Rey did in that feud. He certainly wasn't good at drawing sympathy. Nor was he any good on the mic. What did he do? Too bad I can never relive 2005 thanks to all the episodes being taken down.

I can't wait to rewatch SvS 2000. Jericho/Kane is good and the tag matches weren't. Austin/HHH might be funny. I'm shocked by how much I liked the Fully Loaded Angle/Taker match. Hopefully the SvS one is just as good. I'm also the second biggest fan ever of Rock/Rikishi behind Rock316AE (who referred to it as the greatest babyface performance ever). Hopefully it will hold up like everything those two did in 2000.

This is not Game hate, but I would say that the Rock/Benoit feud was better than the Rock/HHH one. The reason why is because the McMahon family drama and DX nonsense drew nearly all the attention away from Rock and HHH similar to how the authority kinda did the same with Bryan and Orton last fall. Benoit and Rock however had this synergy that can't be explained. Every segment they had together felt so ferocious and heated. I especially loved the one where Benoit ambushed Rock while Rock was signing an autograph for an ugly looking kid. To his credit though, the Triple H/Jericho feud was real nice. LMS match went up on a rewatch to ****3/4.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Smitty don't watch Juvi vs Konnan or Jericho vs Nick Patrick. You should know now to avoid everything Konnan was in.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Only good Konnan match Ive seen is vs Eddy Uncensored, dude is literally the worst, new york yankees fans level. 

Also Nick Patrick is GOAT


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

HayleySabin said:


> Smitty don't watch Juvi vs Konnan or Jericho vs Nick Patrick. You should know now to avoid everything Konnan was in.


I liked Juvi/Konnan cause Konnan seemed determined to kill Juventud :lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Juvi/Konnan was a fucking mess. It's like they took turns trying to outdo each other's botch. I need to watch that show again though. I didn't like it too much in my last watch, but it does look like an otherwise good card. DDP/Chavo ruled, War Games is underrated, Jericho/Benoit was brilliant, and Calo/Mysterio was sex. I do recall Ice Train and Scott Norton having a really shitty match though. I don't even understand how. It's like they didn't want to brawl and fight. Instead, they tried to wrestle like Lance Storm. The jury is still out on Nasties/Harlem Heat and Giant/Savage since I remember nothing about them.

Nick Patrick vs. Chris Jericho is fun if you're a Jericho mark, but it's mainly good for comedic reasons, not for wrestling reasons. Apparently the rope that was tied to Jericho's arm got loose and Jericho had to hide that from everyone. Call me an idiot, but I recall actually liking that World War III match. Luger and Giant were pretty damn good in the end.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

There is very little talk in this thread about The Ragin Climax, It's a little disheartening honestly :side:


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Some points regarding two negative match quality Mania predictions I am observing:

There seems to be an increase from the usual amount of disrespectful people sleeping on the Deadman since he is another year older and has clearly lost alot of that signature mobility, but I assure that what Taker may be losing in physical prowess, he more than makes up for in premium psychology usage (which given Taker is against an athletic freak should be on full display) and the ability to tell a story like few left in the business can. Age can take the height on "Air Deadman" away and maybe the flurries don't clock in with the same handspeed, but timing and psychology understanding doesn't fade. Punk was a good when motivated great worker, but while this may piss alot of people off, he doesn't bring to the table all the elements in a match Lesnar does and I think we can bank on Lesnar not half assing anything, let alone this clash. I see too many avenues that this versatile match can go down for this to be any less than a modern classic barring a freak Undertaker injury from Lesnar's snug style. While many expect an all out brawl (which could very well be the starting point of this contest), I wouldn't be too shocked to see a divergance to a technical chess match seeing how both men have the capability and this could still provide a solid foundation for a grandiose finish without winding Taker. Certainly though, Lesnar will lay his high impact, snug offense in seeing how that is the hallmark of Lesnar's ring style coupled with the freak athletecism.

Anothr thing I notice is a frequently cited trepedation that Bryan/HHH won't be satisfactory since HHH has an inconsistant WM record from a match quality standpoint. I remind those that many of HHH's best individiual performances and subsequently matches have come when HHH needs to work to establisha seemingly inferior wrestler into an equalling threat as the story progresses. Cactus and Hunter worked their ass off to do this for each other producing a classic at RR 2000, while the Michaels/HHH series is polarizing, one of HHH's best efforts individually comes from their Summerslam 02 match, vs Flair in their cage match, vs Benjamin while not HHH's best matches were good efforts the modern classic at WM 20 while matched with two all time great workers was storied as Benoit's ascending from going in the kayfabe underdog to champ. Not to mention D-bry is a damn good worker who always works assiduously. This should go double seeing how this is such an important showcase for Bryan both as a performer and character completing this red hot rise if competent booking occurs. It would obviously behoove the Game to put in his finest effort ala Foley matches as well, especially when considering Hunter is a now a close business representative in a profit first company. Guy already put in great effort to sell the attack of Bryan last night. I don't think we will see a supbar effort from either man, which should produce a good match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rey/Eddie 6/23/05 is my favourite match ever and I don't believe for a second Eddie could have that match with anybody else on the roster. Or that entire feud (as matches, the outside feud was mostly garbage anyway).


----------



## Pinball Wizard Graves (Feb 13, 2009)

As WWE’s carried on their great 2013 into 2014, two years running I’ve extended my usual top five into a top ten. Here it is.



1. Bray Wyatt/Luke Harper/Erick Rowan vs. Dean Ambrose/Seth Rollins/Roman Reigns. WWE Elimination Chamber, 23rd February.

2. Bray Wyatt vs. Daniel Bryan. WWE Royal Rumble, 26th January.

3. Bray Wyatt/Luke Harper/Erick Rowan vs. Dean Ambrose/Seth Rollins/Roman Reigns. WWE RAW, 3rd March.

4. John Cena vs. Cesaro. WWE RAW, 17th February.

5. John Cena vs. Luke Harper. WWE RAW, 24th March.

6. Cesaro vs. Randy Orton. WWE Smackdown, 14th February.

7. Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton. WWE RAW, 3rd February.

8. Dean Ambrose/Seth Rollins vs. Cesaro/Jack Swagger. WWE RAW, 24th March.

9. Christian vs. Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio. WWE RAW, 24th March.

10. Sheamus/Christian vs. Antonio Cesaro/Jack Swagger. WWE RAW, 10th February.



Eight of my top ten are TV matches, only two are from PPV which is something.


----------



## Big Pete (Jul 23, 2011)

Patrick/Jericho is definitely a deeper cut than those others suggested but it's a neat surprise all the same. Patrick was one of the better heels in wrestling back in 96 and played his role to perfection here. Despite Jericho's bitching in his book, he desperately needed a strong heel to work with because the crowd was basically turning on him in every match.

Konnan/Juvi is a mess, but a fun mess all the same. Juvi uses the unique environment to his advantage and hits some pretty fun spots.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Goldberg vs. Meng sucked. I give up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Everyone stopped caring about your thoughts on Goldberg by now.

And just watched Christian vs Orton from Over the Limit 2011 for the third time. Ok, I was right. Didn't hold up after it dropped on the second viewing to begin w/. It's pretty average at most and all the Christian goodness I once thought it had really wasn't there. So now all their matches can go the hell away. :hb


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm the one talking like a fool? What went wrong with Christian and Orton?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The fact nothing went right. Their constant back and forth is dull. Always has been.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Couldn't be more dull than this:






Can you please tell me what am I supposed to like about this?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Are you asking b/c you can't form an opinion or what? You treat all of this as if any opinion is meant to be legit factual. :hayden3


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

This is The Ragin' Climax.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:mark:

Watching GAB 2005 after quite some time to continue on w/this 2005 project and I'm certain everything sucks except for two things: Eddie/Mysterio & Benoit/Jordan. Benoit/Jordan just ended and YES, it's still pretty rad. My desire to eventually cram a bunch of Jordan matches - WWE & TNA - will happen soon. I'll make it happen.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

so salty

Nevertheless, I'm watching the King of the Ring 2001 main event right now. Interested in how it'll turn out.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Couldn't be more dull than this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


DUD.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Dammit, you would think Meng + Goldberg could be good.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Well, it's Goldberg. And Meng was a totally average wrestler, nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The 'other' Bret/Benoit match:

*Bret Hart vs Chris Benoit (WCW Monday Nitro 06.22.98)*

x1lcti2

Really good IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A lot more, tbf.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

My mind just can't comprehend how an individual can produce shit with Meng, Bam Bam Bigelow, AND Mark Henry. Even Khali and UC had a good match with one of those three.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Rey/Eddie 6/23/05 is my favourite match ever and I don't believe for a second Eddie could have that match with anybody else on the roster. Or that entire feud (as matches, the outside feud was mostly garbage anyway).



EXACTLY. You are 10000% correct IMO. Yes Eddie's character was the dominant force in all the matches and segments, but if you think for a split second those matches would be just as great with anyone in Rey's place, you are sadly, sadly mistaken. Eddie and Rey probably have the best chemistry in the ring of any wrestlers I've ever seen. The sequences and combinations they would do are too complex for 95% for other wrestlers to even think of, let alone go out there and do. Listening to the commentary they did for their HH match on Eddies first DVD, they would never have to discuss anything before going out, they really didn't even have to talk much in the ring. They just knew what the other was trying to do, instinctively. The only other wrestlers I've ever heard of that could do that are Flair and Steamboat.

For comparison, go watch Eddie vs Batista at NM 2005 then watch Eddie/Rey Judgement Day 2005. Nobody "carried" anyone in the Eddie/Rey matches. They were both just as essential as the other.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Ric Flair vs Randy Savage (WCW Monday Nitro 02.19.96) *



Probably their best TV match.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

So yeah Orton/Christian from OTL 2011 was very mediocre, don't understand the hype for that match.

But the I Quit Match from that show is a pile of shit, I can't believe how bad and dull that match was & let's not forget when Chioda found the phone and re-started the match :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What is it with Mike Chioda and I Quit matches? And it looks like Orton/Christian is the new Angle/Michaels. Oh well, so long as we all agree that Punk/Cena is the GOAT combo, I'm happy.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Every Punk/Cena match is fantastic.

I should watch Punk/Cena MITB right now :|


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You should also watch Rey/Eddie WWIII 1997.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I could use a re-watch of that match since I have only seen it once just like Punk/Cena from MITB.

Rey Mysterio vs Super Calo though :mark:


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Ugh, so Austin vs Benoit vs Jericho was not as good as I hoped, still quite solid though.

Did Benoit get the injury from that backdrop?


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

out May 27th


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Shame the listings look like shit.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

DoubtGin said:


> Ugh, so Austin vs Benoit vs Jericho was not as good as I hoped, still quite solid though.
> 
> Did Benoit get the injury from that backdrop?


I think he was already working hurt prior to the match, but that backdrop severely aggravated the injury to the point where he needed surgery. He probably shouldn't have even taken part in the match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Can you please tell me what am I supposed to like about this?


I truthfully didn't like it much either. Me in June last year:



> Goldberg v. Meng (Saturday Night 1/31/98)
> OK, truth be told this was a bit of a mess. At first it was kind of sloppy and kind of awkward and Goldberg looked green as hell, but it was really fun, and seeing Goldberg work underneath was neat. Then the match went on and it kind of got of continually worse. Goldberg had no idea how to work a hope spot in here. Usually he bulldozes through shit and his ‘hope spots’ are just him murdering through his opponent and pretty much winning. In the Batista match I watched yesterday he worked a really good version of that with the one-legged spear and it came off as big and awesome. This was just a little uncomfortable to watch. I mentioned yesterday how I love how each Goldberg match seemed to have a theme, and the theme of this was that Goldberg had slaughtered through everybody in less than 90 seconds. This was a much longer match. Meng got most of it, and I loved him swinging wildly with the fists, but he took too much of the match and Goldberg was no good playing that kind of role. Goldberg’s hope spots couldn’t be him running through shit and winning because here was so much of the match left, and they had to switch back to Meng in control. He’d fight back decently, but then he’d also kind of wander around and do nothing. He’d Irish whip Meng in the corner multiple times and kind of just walk slowly toward him and throw a clothesline. I think he expected Meng to hit the buckle and run back, so when Meng didn’t, Goldberg didn’t have time to run toward him or some shit. IDK, it was awkward and a bit clumsy. Near the end Goldberg hits a powerslam on Meng and Meng lands on his fucking head. Then Goldy takes Jimmy Hart from the top rope and Hart nearly lands on HIS fucking head. This is probably better than I’m making it sound, and it was decent overall, but if I want to show evidence that Goldberg was a good worker I’d steer away from it. I know these two have to have an awesome two minute match in them.





funnyfaces1 said:


> My mind just can't comprehend how an individual can produce shit with Meng, Bam Bam Bigelow, AND *Mark Henry.* Even Khali and UC had a good match with one of those three.


what is wrong with that match, exactly? It's awesome. I didn't like the Bigelow match much either but let's not pretend Bigelow was good in it and/or Goldberg dragged him down (EDIT - this one** I watched from TV, IDR the SuperBrawl match).

**


> Goldberg v. Bam Bam Bigelow (Thunder 9/9/99)
> This was a little weird and kind of disappointing. Bam Bam gets cheap shots in, stalls/hesitates, and Goldberg hits his ‘oh no you fucking don’t’ big moves, but it didn’t fully…come together I guess. The ref bumps ridiculously on a Bam Bam punch, he looked like Super Mario when he touches an enemy and flies over the level with his arms up. The stupid thing about this was Goldy and Bam Bam both wrestle normally as if nothing happened. Bam Bam raked the eyes, but how many heels rake the eyes even when the ref is looking directly at them? Like, all of them. Ideally he could at least have gone low, but Goldberg still had most of the match. It takes a couple of minutes for Bigelow’s Jersey Triad buddy DDP to get in the ring, and that easily leads to the best part of the match. Bigelow and Page send Goldberg for an Irish whip, and when Goldberg comes back he spears Bigelow and Page is all ‘oh the hell was that I’m getting the fuck out of here’. This wasn’t bad, but I guess I let expectations get a little high for it. How’s their SuperBrawl match? Don’t think I’ve seen it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> So yeah Orton/Christian from OTL 2011 was very mediocre, don't understand the hype for that match.


Interesting, I'm pretty harsh (rightfully so) on Orton post 06, but I've always been very high on this one. I find the christian/orton series p.overrated as it only producted one good match but think this is very good. 



The Hitman said:


> *Ric Flair vs Randy Savage (WCW Monday Nitro 02.19.96) *
> 
> 
> 
> Probably their best TV match.


Better than the Japan one ?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Maybe Skins, it is an excellent match apart from the clusterfuck - esque finish. 

Anyone know the date of the Raw when Undertaker has kidnapped Vince's family, he is then in the ring dressed as Kane?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Orton/Christian SS > Orton/Christian OTL.

The Steel Cage match is pretty great too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I love all the 2011 matches Orton and Christian had. Over the Limit is probably the best with SummerSlam slightly below. I'm not really as high on their matches after that point but they have all been solid, just too repetitive, overdone and therefore, forgettable. 5/4/11, OTL, SS & Steel Cage, though... :mark:



funnyfaces1 said:


> And it looks like Orton/Christian is the new Angle/Michaels.


Soon enough HBK/Undertaker will join the list of matches that are universally praised but get bashed in this thread.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's been a while and of course I'm going to look at them again (maybe as early as tonight and tomorrow perhaps if I can get a bunch of my work done and stop procrastinating) but I remember at least LIKING if not LOVING every single Orton/Christian match in 2011 due to the various callbacks to previous matches constantly thrown in and a pretty solid back and forth chemistry between Orton and Christian in general. From what I remember, Over the Limit is definitely the gold standard of the series and one of the best matches of 2011, but I actually have 5/4/11, OTL, CP, MITB, SS, & the steel cage at **** 1/4+* which makes it a pretty fucking awesome series from where I sit.

Orton-Cody from last September is actually pretty good compared to what we're used to getting from the two outside of the 2011 matches when Cody has the awesome "Undashing" gimmick, felt that Orton did his best to make Cody come off as a passionate babyface whereas most times I find him quite bland. SHIELD capitalized on this the best though, but I'd still throw three stars at this match even if it doesn't make any Top 50/100 lists from me .


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Just watched Jericho/Rey Bash 2009 for the very first time.

Mind = Blown.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

As long as there is life in me, Undertaker Vs HBK matches will ALWAYS BE LOVED in this thread. ALWAYS. Even if I have to edit people's posts to change their shitty opinions to the right opinions.

Posted my WM 29 review/ramble on my BLOG~! today. *think* I posted it on here at some point though, I don't remember.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I really enjoyed Ryback Vs Henry as a throwback to the 1980s in a tremendously slow paced match with bearhugs and nerve holds galore, loved it. Ryback bumps like a lunatic in a few spots for Henry's simple offense and I felt it actually worked, nothing on the Wrestlemania XXIX card is bad besides Rock Vs Cena in my opinion, and even that ends the right way .

Can't believe that most people like Punk/Taker more than Cal does and would be willing to throw ***** 1/2* at it .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I love that 09 Rey/Jericho series.

And Cal is right - Taker/Michaels will always be great. I might be in the very minor majority that thought the HHH matches were right up there with the Michaels matches as far as WM is concerned. 28 edges out 27, but I thought both were excellent, yet still behind 25 and 26.

If I were to rank these 4, it'd probably be:

25
26
28
27

Would need to watch all but 28 again, though.

edit I wasn't too big on Punk/Taker in comparison to the 4 streak matches that came before it. **** is probably accurate, but I don't think it's as great as others do. Didn't have the same BIG MATCH feel as the 4 that came before it imo. Punk just isn't on HBK or HHH's level.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

For me, this is how I'd rank the best Streak matches:

1. WM 25 vs HBK *****
2. WM 26 vs HBK *****
3. WM 23 vs Batista ****1/2
4. WM 29 vs Punk ****1/2
5. WM 24 vs Edge ****1/4
6. WM 17 vs Triple H ****1/4
7. WM 21 vs Orton ****1/4
8. WM 18 vs Flair ****
9. WM 12 vs Diesel ***3/4
10. WM 28 vs Triple H ***1/2
|
| (Every other streak match plus 30 layers of feces and raw sewage)
|

21. WM 27 vs Triple H



I'd rather watch Taker/Gonzalez than sit through WM 27 again.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

25, 26 and 27 are all brilliant for my money. 28 though lawd, so bad I laugh until cry

29 is pretty good as well, though quirky at odd moments.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WHY DON'T PEOPLE LIKE 28 DAMMIT :sad:


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

1. WM 26 vs HBK - *****
2. WM 25 vs HBK - *****
3. WM 21 vs Orton - ****1/2
4. WM 23 vs Batista - ****1/2
5. WM 29 vs Punk - ****1/4


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> WHY DON'T PEOPLE LIKE 28 DAMMIT :sad:


Rewatch plz.

The drama is so terribly constructed and every single thing Shawn Michaels does during the match is nonsensical. There's no logical causation in anything he does. It's just like "yeah I'm supposed to hit this spot before doing this." A match has to not make me question why the wrestlers are doing what they're doing in order to be watchable. This one makes me question everything.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> For me, this is how I'd rank the best Streak matches:
> 
> 1. WM 25 vs HBK *****
> 2. WM 26 vs HBK *****
> ...




1. WM 25 Vs HBK *****
2. WM 26 Vs HBK ****3/4
3. WM 24 Vs Edge ****1/2
4. WM 14 Vs Kane ****1/2
5. WM 27 Vs HHH ****1/2
6. WM 23 Vs Batista ****1/4
7. WM 29 Vs Punk ****1/4
8. WM 21 Vs Orton ****
9. WM 17 Vs HHH ****
10. WM 18 Vs Flair ****

Never liked the HIAC with HHH as much as others. Probably the most overrated streak match IMO. Not bad, but gets insanely praised over the top.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Date of this please:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dkJWEI2adc


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Rewatch plz.
> 
> The drama is so terribly constructed and every single thing Shawn Michaels does during the match is nonsensical. There's no logical causation in anything he does. It's just like "yeah I'm supposed to hit this spot before doing this." A match has to not make me question why the wrestlers are doing what they're doing in order to be watchable. This one makes me question everything.


I thought it played nicely off the 27 match with HHH picking up where he left off and dominating Taker early. Chair shots galore and Taker looked battered just like he did the year before. Although incredibly cheesy, I thought Michaels did a pretty good job of being CONFLICTED. Would he be impartial? Would he side w/Taker so that his best friend wouldn't accomplish what he couldn't (they alluded to this in the promos leading up to the match) or would he side w/his best buddy? Finally when he felt things start to slip away from THE GAME, he showed his true colors in a moment of uncertainty. The pained look on his face after Taker kicks out of the Superkick->Pedigree combo is hilarious imo. Played right into the match. Then everything comes full circle as it is now Taker who is FUCKING PISSED and turns the table on HHH w/the chair and making him be the one to succumb to Taker much like Michaels did at WM26. If you're not into overly dramatic epics like this, which I totally understand, then yeah I can see why people think this match sucks or is overrated. I will watch it again just because HOL asked me to, and I will see if I still get the same FEELS as I did when I last watched it.

edit Keep in mind that a majority of my "bias" might be because I watched all three of these guys from the very start of their WWF careers, so my FEELS might get tugged at a bit more than others who watch this.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

vs. Flair not being in anybody's top five upsets the SHIT out of me.

vs. HBK 26
vs. Punk 29
vs. HBK 25
vs. Batista 24
vs. Flair 18
vs. Kane 14
vs. Orton 21

Somethin, somethin, somethin else. Can't recall a lot of the others. I predict vs. Brock slotting in niceley either in between 26 & Punk or between Punk & 25.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I literally remember NOTHING from the WM14 Kane match.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I think the build up has a lot to do with why I'm (and many others I guess are) so keen on it. There never has been and probably never will be a better built up streak match. Doesn't help that the match was fantastic also and booked phenomenally. Plus Kane murdering Pete Rose for the first time adds a star or twelve.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was just thinking about the buildup to the WMXX Streak match, i can't really remember the buildup at all tbh. Did everyone know Taker was returning as the 'deadman' again?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

He was buried alive, so anybody with half a brain probably knew


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Flux said:


> He was buried alive, so anybody with half a brain probably knew


 True lol.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Uh, this is how I remember the last few Streak matches:

- Batista ***1/2
- HBK I ****1/4
- HBK II ****1/4
- HHH II ****1/2
- HHH III *3/4 _(and I was actually REALLY looking forward to this... shoulda known better)_
- Punk *** 


Can't remember the shurikens for Orton, Edge, Henry (how much shurikens for shit?), Kane II, I just remember not being blown away by those. At all. The HHH I from WM 17 sucked, the Flair and Kane matches rocked.

Edit: I remember giving ****1/4 to Flair/Taker.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Looks like I now stand alone on 28.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Looks like I now stand alone on 28.


Nah Cal and ATF get all moist over it too.

Totally forgot WM 14, that would bump 28 from the #10 slot on my list.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Time for the annual TOP STREAK matches and LISTS !!! :hhh2, Ehh The hhh/taker matches dont hold up for me tbf, and I use to think 28 was honestly one of the greatest matches ever

1) 25
2) 26
3) 27
4) 29
5) 24

Not sure if the Edge one will hold up, 1-2 are interchangeable so is 3-4 tbh. Shoutout to the Naitch and Big Sexy matches as well


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cal get in here pls. 

Looks like I'm going to need to cue up WM14 on the Network later. Won't be surprised if I skip Taker/Kane and just watch HBK's entrance though. "I'M THE FUCKIN MAN." :mark::hb

I thought the Batista match was better than the Edge match, though I'd need to see the Edge one again. Taker/Batista series = /5


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

In 99% of cases, when I dislike a match, I can at least see why others like/love it. Taker/HHH III is not of those matches, I fail to see any appeal there.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I explained on the last page. It's the FEELS, I tell ya.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taker/Batista series is fucking great. One of my favorites. :mark:


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> I literally remember NOTHING from the WM14 Kane match.


It's better to keep it that way.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

^ 

Where have you been all my life?

I was pretty surprised that people were throwing such high ratings at it, because although I don't remember the actual events of the match itself (a huge red flag to begin with), I don't recall it ever being in the upper echelon of streak matches.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

1. Undertaker V Shawn Michaels WM 25 *****
2. V Shawn Michaels WM 26 *****
3. V Triple H WM 28 ****1/2
4. V CM Punk WM 29 ****1/2
5. V Edge WM 24 ****1/4
6. V Batista WM 23 ****1/4
7 V Orton WM 21 ****
8. V HHH WM 27 ***3/4


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I think people really wanted to like it b/c of the storyline heading into the match and the fact that there are three tombstones in it. The match is pretty damn bad.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Undertaker/Triple H at WM 28 could just be debated for everyone and take us nowhere. I seriously cannot understand how you wouldn't like it after seeing the previous 3 matches that he had. Every time I watch it I see something different that I like. The simplified version is that it's 2 guys battling to the bitter end with a ref that doesn't want to see that bitter end. I seriously think I like the match more the more I think about it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Kane from WM 14 rules.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

TaylorFitz said:


> Undertaker/Triple H at WM 28 could just be debated for everyone and take us nowhere. I seriously cannot understand how you wouldn't like it after seeing the previous 3 matches that he had. Every time I watch it I see something different that I like. The simplified version is that it's 2 guys battling to the bitter end with a ref that doesn't want to see that bitter end. I seriously think I like the match more the more I think about it.


Me too. It fits perfectly within that 4-year story arch imo. Now I want to watch it again.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> I think people really wanted to like it b/c of the storyline heading into the match and the fact that there are three tombstones in it. The match is pretty damn bad.


OK I do remember the multiple Tombstones. Seriously, wasn't that all that happened?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Used to think the HHH V Taker 27 match was ****3/4 because of the FINISHERZ! and the SPOTZ.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

IMAGINE IF IT HAD FOUR TOMBSTONES


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> IMAGINE IF IT HAD FOUR TOMBSTONES


OR FOUR PEDIGREE'S BRO!

edit - oh shit, it nearly did lol


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Undertaker did one of his dives through a table. I won't say it was a horrible match but there isn't that much that's great about it either. I liked seeing monster Kane kick ass and the Undertaker's comeback. I think I was at ***1/4 for it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

With the resurgence of Johnny Cash recently, i hope Taker has 'Ain't No Grave' again.  Looking forward to his entrance at Mania anyways.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No. Not that piece of trash. Talking about WM 14.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> No. Not that piece of trash. Talking about WM 14.



You hate Taker/Kane WM 14?!?! Say it ain't so...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Will need to see the dive through the table.

edit Nah Cody likes Taker/Kane.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WM 27 = garbage
WM 14 = :mark:

Sometimes when this thread moves fast you need to quote some posts to help out w/any confusion. :side:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Streak ratings since 07 

Vs Batista: ****3/4 
vs Edge: ****
vs HBK I: *****
vs HBK II: ****1/2 
vs HHH I: **1/2 
vs HHH II: ****
vs Punk: ****1/4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> WM 27 = garbage
> WM 14 = :mark:
> 
> Sometimes when this thread moves fast you need to quote some posts to help out w/any confusion. :side:


Jesus you had me scared there. That's one match I can't fathom any fan of big men and awesome story lines not loving. And whoever isn't a fan of big men and classic storylines can just gtfo now.

3. Effing. Tombstones. :mark: :mark:

That's how you do a finish with a guy losing but being put over at the same time. I swear at the time, it didn't even click for me that Taker had won. All I knew was that Kane was the most BAMF alive for needing 3 effing Tombstones to be put away.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Why oh why did Taker spend THREE WrestleManias on Tripel H?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> Why oh why did Taker spend THREE WrestleManias on Tripel H?


I ask that same question in regards to Brock Lesnar (take away the WM part lol)

At WM27, who else was there? They wanted Lesnar, but couldn't get him then.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Couldn't have had the match worked any better to leave Kane smelling like a rose w/his first loss in the company. Undertaker; the man who practically murdered Shawn Michaels in a few matches prior was then getting murdered by Kane throughout that match. Made you go "woah". Undertaker took the gloves off, ready and willing to lay down a beating. Only for his younger brother to have a burning desire to unleash the beating even more. Great stuff. Naturally I like the three tombstone use for a narrative b/c it REALLY put it over the top. It wasn't the only reason why I look fondly at the match. Claim like that is ugh. No need to make assumptions why some folk happen to love a match. Especially when it's a lame generalization.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Though Taker/Kane WM14 was great in '98 and seeing it recently hasn't changed that.

Taker/Kane WM20 was good, was beyond hyped for the return of The Deadman and when I heard Paul Bearer I lost it.

Wasn't looking forward to Taker/HHH WM27 at all, hell the only match I wanted to see from the show was Punk/Orton.
Taker/HHH turned out to be awesome and MOTY till Punk/Cena MITB happened.

I'll probably go back and watch Taker's WM matches against Flair, Henry & Show/ATrain as I don't remember them at all.
Maybe even watch WM13 as I've never seen that event.


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

bme said:


> I'll probably go back and watch Taker's WM matches against Flair, Henry & Show/ATrain as I don't remember them at all.


Flair's is worth watching but the Henry & Show/A-Train matches are just meh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I really need to see the match vs Sid again. Been much too long. _(it was the 90's and VHS was still hip)_

I liked Taker vs Kane from WM 20 too. They brawl, I get a kick out of it. Fun. I'm about the biggest advocate of Taker vs Show/A-Train. Think it's real good for what they wanted to do, tbhayley. Better off w/o Nathan Jones. I can feel confident in knowing this after he came back later in the year.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Couldn't have had the match worked any better to leave Kane smelling like a rose w/his first loss in the company. Undertaker; the man who practically murdered Shawn Michaels in a few matches prior was then getting murdered by Kane throughout that match. Made you go "woah". Undertaker took the gloves off, ready and willing to lay down a beating. Only for his younger brother to have a burning desire to unleash the beating even more. Great stuff. Naturally I like the three tombstone use for a narrative b/c it REALLY put it over the top. It wasn't the only reason why I look fondly at the match. Claim like that is ugh. No need to make assumptions why some folk happen to love a match. Especially when it's a lame generalization.



Oh I liked a hell of a lot more about that match than the finish. I just felt the need to put over how strong Kane came out looking after that match. He was my favorite for a time following the WM 14 bout actually. Just the whole presentation of Kane was awesome to a 10 year old me. As I've said before, WM 14 is the only Mania I've ever been to, and though that event is known for Stone Cold winning, I'll tell you right now on the car ride home me and my best friend spent the majority of the time talking about Kane. It left an indelible impression on me, seeing a guy I thought was the be all end all for bad assery (Taker) just get physically mauled in a match. My dad wasn't a wrestling fan he just wanted to take me and my friend as my birthday present, but even he was enthralled with the whole build and match to Kane/Taker.

Thanks for that Regal/Sting GAB recommendation. I didn't get to finish it last night so I just watched the whole thing again when I got home from work. I think I counted like 8 total moves of offense for Sting the entire match. I never like to say someone carried another guy, because I'm not a wrestler and I don't know what went down when the match happened, but I feel totally comfortable saying Regal 100% carried that match. Just his mannerisms and cockiness alone made it a classic, let alone all those fantastic submissions and brutal, skull crunching strikes. I wish more guys could work holds like Regal. He has proven time and again that you can base an entire match around working snug holds with some stiff strikes mixed in and it'll be a classic. Too often these days I see sloppy submissions that serve no purpose other than to allow the wrestlers some rest. Regal just got a ****+ match out of a guy who didn't do much more than a JC Penny mannequin could do using he majority of the time working holds. William Regal everyone! :clap


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Regal/Sting had numerous matches from 92-96 too. Ill try and upload Steven Regal vs Sting (WCW Saturday Night - 2.5.94) when i can, sure that was pretty good too TBH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Oh I liked a hell of a lot more about that match than the finish. I just felt the need to put over how strong Kane came out looking after that match. He was my favorite for a time following the WM 14 bout actually. Just the whole presentation of Kane was awesome to a 10 year old me. As I've said before, WM 14 is the only Mania I've ever been to, and though that event is known for Stone Cold winning, I'll tell you right now on the car ride home me and my best friend spent the majority of the time talking about Kane. It left an indelible impression on me, seeing a guy I thought was the be all end all for bad assery (Taker) just get physically mauled in a match. My dad wasn't a wrestling fan he just wanted to take me and my friend as my birthday present, but even he was enthralled with the whole build and match to Kane/Taker.
> 
> Thanks for that Regal/Sting GAB recommendation. I didn't get to finish it last night so I just watched the whole thing again when I got home from work. I think I counted like 8 total moves of offense for Sting the entire match. I never like to say someone carried another guy, because I'm not a wrestler and I don't know what went down when the match happened, but I feel totally comfortable saying Regal 100% carried that match. Just his mannerisms and cockiness alone made it a classic, let alone all those fantastic submissions and brutal, skull crunching strikes. I wish more guys could work holds like Regal. He has proven time and again that you can base an entire match around working snug holds with some stiff strikes mixed in and it'll be a classic. Too often these days I see sloppy submissions that serve no purpose other than to allow the wrestlers some rest. Regal just got a ****+ match out of a guy who didn't do much more than a JC Penny mannequin could do using he majority of the time working holds. William Regal everyone! :clap


Damn you saw it LIVE? Boss. I'm right there w/you. Nothing captured my attention more than the story and eventual match between Taker & Kane. Well, Foley winning the tag championship that night was pretty much the equal highlight. Always happy they got to own the Outlaws at WM for vindication. Undertaker's promo when he comes from the exploding casket on RAW to tell Kane that he's gonna fight him at WM; never enough :mark:

Wonderful. It's a total Regal show. I think Sting's worth in that match was being a fabulous punching bag. That still holds a lot of worth. You have to try and create sympathy, Sting did that w/his massive connection to the audience. Plus, he sold well & the natural star power of being "Sting" behind him only put Regal's dominance over him that much more emphasized. A fantastic match on both ends from my point of view, but no doubt Regal is the justification for why it's as much quality as it is.



The Hitman said:


> Regal/Sting had numerous matches from 92-96 too. Ill try and upload Steven Regal vs Sting (WCW Saturday Night - 2.5.94) when i can, sure that was pretty good too TBH.


PLZ


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I suppose I need to watch a lot more Sting than I have (not much). Sounds like he had some gems in early/mid-90s WCW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Great, NOW Cal is back just in time to rag on Sting some more. 8*D


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> PLZ


NP. Ill sort it tomorrow. Ill also try and upload Steven Regal vs. Sting (Handheld 10/16/94), if anyone wants it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker/Kane WM 14 is awesome. AWESOME.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Fine I'll fuckin watch that shit, along with Taker/HHH III.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Damn you saw it LIVE? Boss. I'm right there w/you. Nothing captured my attention more than the story and eventual match between Taker & Kane. Well, Foley winning the tag championship that night was pretty much the equal highlight. Always happy they got to own the Outlaws at WM for vindication. Undertaker's promo when he comes from the exploding casket on RAW to tell Kane that he's gonna fight him at WM; never enough :mark:
> 
> Wonderful. It's a total Regal show. I think Sting's worth in that match was being a fabulous punching bag. That still holds a lot of worth. You have to try and create sympathy, Sting did that w/his massive connection to the audience. Plus, he sold well & the natural star power of being "Sting" behind him only put Regal's dominance over him that much more emphasized. A fantastic match on both ends from my point of view, but no doubt Regal is the justification for why it's as much quality as it is.
> 
> ...




It's funny you mentioned Foley winning the titles. I will forever be indebted to by buddy Matt who I went to WM 14 with for turning me on to Foley. Matts dad knew someone who knew someone who knew Foley, and knowing that his son was a wrestling fan, Matts dad got an framed, autographed Foley "Mankind" picture, back when he still wore the brown ring gear. It was sometime in late 1996. Of course having this signed picture instantly made Foley Matt's favorite wrestler. We were too young to fully appreciate how great Mick was, Matt just knew this guy took the time to sign a picture for him so that was enough. Having Matt constantly want to watch all the Foley matches he had on VHS is what eventually wore me down and made me love him too. I was previously just a Bret Hart and Randy Savage guy. Anyway bringing this back full circle, after Foley won the titles, me and Matt spent the next 6 months wrestling as Foley and Funk (Matt got to be Foley, I was the nob who had to put stockings on my head and be Funk) as the tag team champions in hardcore matches that consisted of us hitting each other in the heads with pans and pool cues. Fun times. What I wouldn't give to be the age I am now and go back and re experience that event again.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

WM 14 took place about 20 minutes from where I lived at the time 

Granted I was only 2 years old so I wasn't exactly a WWF fan at the time, but I sure would have been there if I was there now 

SVS 2000 will be done tomorrow, got a shit ton of work to do tonight


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> 25, 26 and 27 are all brilliant for my money. 28 though lawd, so bad I laugh until cry


remember when it first happened and you said there was no way Punk/Henry the next night was better, before having watched Punk/Henry!???




I want to say there's a GREAT Sting/Regal on TV but I'm almost positive I'm wrong and getting it confused with Sting/Austin (which is GREAT).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> remember when it first happened and you said there was no way Punk/Henry the next night was better, before having watched Punk/Henry!???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


01/08/94? Real shame they couldn't of had a ppv match. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> NP. Ill sort it tomorrow. Ill also try and upload Steven Regal vs. Sting (Handheld 10/16/94), if anyone wants it.


Terrific. Make it a day of Regal vs Sting. Or however long it takes to see em.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> It's funny you mentioned Foley winning the titles. I will forever be indebted to by buddy Matt who I went to WM 14 with for turning me on to Foley. Matts dad knew someone who knew someone who knew Foley, and knowing that his son was a wrestling fan, Matts dad got an framed, autographed Foley "Mankind" picture, back when he still wore the brown ring gear. It was sometime in late 1996. Of course having this signed picture instantly made Foley Matt's favorite wrestler. We were too young to fully appreciate how great Mick was, Matt just knew this guy took the time to sign a picture for him so that was enough. Having Matt constantly want to watch all the Foley matches he had on VHS is what eventually wore me down and made me love him too. I was previously just a Bret Hart and Randy Savage guy. Anyway bringing this back full circle, after Foley won the titles, me and Matt spent the next 6 months wrestling as Foley and Funk (Matt got to be Foley, I was the nob who had to put stockings on my head and be Funk) as the tag team champions in hardcore matches that consisted of us hitting each other in the heads with pans and pool cues. Fun times. What I wouldn't give to be the age I am now and go back and re experience that event again.


100% tremendous. We can all use stories like that. I don't even know how or why I became a Foley fan instantly. I just did. Maybe there is a neat story of how it came to pass, but here I am today, glad I know how soft flannel is no matter the origin.

My stars, I think we all had ourselves a wrestling promotion w/buddies. What great times. I was Heavyweight & Hardcore champion at the same time. Recognize. Then I eventually dropped the Hardcore Championship after the most violent shot w/cardboard EVER FELT. Thumbtacks & frying pans came before that; I swear. :side:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I used to tag my buddy in the face with my school binder (pretending it was a steel chair) in 7th grade. Then in 9th grade, I'd destroy his head with a HUGE Biology book whenever he walked past me. :hb


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Hitman said:


> 01/08/94? Real shame they couldn't of had a ppv match.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Yeah, and there's an awesome one from 1995 as well IIRC.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I used to tag my buddy in the face with my school binder (pretending it was a steel chair) in 7th grade. Then in 9th grade, I'd destroy his head with a HUGE Biology book whenever he walked past me. :hb


:lmao

AWESOME


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Terrific. Make it a day of Regal vs Sting. Or however long it takes to see em.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oh man, as Dusty Rhodes would say, Matt and I had ourselves a bunch of plunder. We had a small, bout a foot and half tall, aluminum trash can, 2 pool cues, an old broken VCR, and a string of Christmas lights we used to whip each other. The problem was, we were best buddy's so we always wanted to be a tag team. But we didn't have anyone to tag against sometimes, as all our other friends lived in other neighborhoods. So we had these two, big, plaid body pillows that were about four and a half feet long. Body pillows are all well and good for suplexing and jumping off the bed onto, I mean you could get some great heat on them, but they were just never there for you on the comebacks. So when I was wrestling a hardcore match with Matt against these body pillows, I'd have to hit myself in the head with the trash can and pretend like it was my opponent, the pillow, that did it :lmao. We tore the house down with those pillows, brother, and you've never seen so many people, we had them hanging from the rafters we popped that territory so big (for those that know the Robert and Ricky stories ). My wrestling name was 6-Pack :lmao


Just about to watch the NWO 2007 tag between Taker/Batista vs Cena/HBK. Oddly enough I've never ever seen this match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Oh man, as Dusty Rhodes would say, Matt and I had ourselves a bunch of plunder. We had a small, bout a foot and half tall, aluminum trash can, 2 pool cues, an old broken VCR, and a string of Christmas lights we used to whip each other. The problem was, we were best buddy's so we always wanted to be a tag team. But we didn't have anyone to tag against sometimes, as all our other friends lived in other neighborhoods. So we had these two, big, plaid body pillows that were about four and a half feet long. Body pillows are all well and good for suplexing and jumping off the bed onto, I mean you could get some great heat on them, but they were just never there for you on the comebacks. So when I was wrestling a hardcore match with Matt against these body pillows, I'd have to hit myself in the head with the trash can and pretend like it was my opponent, the pillow, that did it :lmao. We tore the house down with those pillows, brother, and you've never seen so many people, we had them hanging from the rafters we popped that territory so big (for those that know the Robert and Ricky stories ). My wrestling name was 6-Pack :lmao
> 
> 
> Just about to watch the NWO 2007 tag between Taker/Batista vs Cena/HBK. Oddly enough I've never ever seen this match.


I need the full shoot interview ASAP. Hoping a tift w/one of the pillows is told about the rumor that you stole his girlfriend and brought it to light on a cocaine fueled promo. b/c weren't all our childhoods exactly like that?

I've only seen that match about...maybe twice. Remember not too much about it other than all four worked pretty hard & the crowd was eating it up after a sea of bullcrap known as the rest of that PPV. Pardon the opening six man which I kind of recall being good too. Hardys & Benoit on a team. I can dig it. You've effectively made me want to relive both these matches atm, but I'll have to wait.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> I need the full shoot interview ASAP. Hoping a tift w/one of the pillows is told about the rumor that you stole his girlfriend and brought it to light on a cocaine fueled promo. b/c weren't all our childhoods exactly like that?
> 
> I've only seen that match about...maybe twice. Remember not too much about it other than all four worked pretty hard & the crowd was eating it up after a sea of bullcrap known as the rest of that PPV. Pardon the opening six man which I kind of recall being good too. Hardys & Benoit on a team. I can dig it. You've effectively made me want to relive both these matches atm, but I'll have to wait.


You'll get your shoot, it'll be called "Cocaine is a Hell of a Drug: Stories from the road told by the greatest wrestler that never was, 6-Pack" or "Cocaine and Somas: My life in the crazy world of hardcore bedroom pillow wrestling"

NWO 2007 tag was pretty good I'd say. Not nearly enough Cena/Taker interactions for my liking, it's as if WWE was intentionally trying to keep Cena out of the ring with Taker, but we know they'd never do a thing like that :side:

That was a really cool match pairing, I wonder why they haven't done that kinda thing since then. Prolly cause having the EC match right before Mania precludes them from having a big 4 man tag pairing with both the prominent Mania main events. Imagine this years: Daniel Bryan and Triple H vs Lesnar and Taker :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:hb

Undertaker vs Cena was a one time program back in 2003 only. WWE subtlety told us this but we were all too deaf _(and blind)_ to notice. :hmm: They had no problem making them the DREAM TEAM back on the MSG RAW in 2009. I can't complain.

I'd dig it, if only Triple H wasn't there. Suppose that's no different than the Batista inclusion w/the first match when you think about it. But the chance of having someone actually good to round out Danielson, Lesnar, AND Undertaker? Oh man.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> remember when it first happened and you said there was no way Punk/Henry the next night was better, before having watched Punk/Henry!???


Yeah


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm hoping something crazy goes down on SD to get me pumped for Mania. Maybe Bray Wyatt will get abducted by The Rock to set up THRICE IN A LIFETIME :mark: :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

PGSucks said:


> I'm hoping something crazy goes down on SD to get me pumped for Mania. Maybe Bray Wyatt will get abducted by The Rock to set up THRICE IN A LIFETIME :mark: :mark:


Winner of THRICE IN A LIFETIME makes the main event a four way? :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just put Undertaker in it to make it what it actually needs to be. 

WM SAVED


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> PLZ


*Steven Regal vs Sting (WCW Saturday Night - 2.5.94)*

x1lkc65


*Steven Regal vs Sting (Handheld House Show - 10.16.94)*

x1lkj0m

I did like Sting's look in 1994.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Now I think I just made my choice if I wanted to try and sleep right now. NOPE. Sting vs Regal >>


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

#WVWMWeek Day 4 - Top 10 Streak Matches to Never Happen!!! http://wrestlingview.co.uk/?p=1341


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

War games 91-****1/4
War games 92-****1/2-****3/4


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> Just put Undertaker in it to make it what it actually needs to be.
> 
> WM SAVED


You know Undertaker vs. Bryan could be something special if they ever decide to go down that path. I'd take it!

As for Bryan feuds and matches if/when he wins the WWE WHC on Sunday:

Orton will likely get a rematch
Batista program of course
PLEASE give us BRYAN vs. BROCK
Wyatt revisited 
Cena revisited 
and Punk if he returns

Has potential to be a damn good reign match quality wise similar to Punk's if they give him some time with the championship.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> #WVWMWeek Day 4 - Top 10 Streak Matches to Never Happen!!! http://wrestlingview.co.uk/?p=1341




Reading the post now Cal, so far it's exactly what I hoped for. Although, for the record, Randy Savage wasn't ACTUALLY my pick for best Streak match to never happen. I just threw his name out as an example, although he'd definitely make my top 10. My picks were either 2005 Eddie Guerrero vs 2008 Taker or 2004 Benoit vs 2002 Heel Taker . 

I shall let you know my final thoughts when I finish.


Just finished it, great read dude. Surprised to see Lawler as your #1, but I guess I really shouldn't be as that would be a match for the ages. I think I'd rather have Lawler as the heel though, just my preference.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

In a Lesnar mood atm, so I think I'll revisit my Brock project. Think I was at a couple of weeks before Backlash 2003, leading up to the Cena match. 

Looking forward to getting back to it, esp with Brock's impending heel turn.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The greatest tag team of all-time reunited on the 8/10/2000 episode of Smackdown to face Benoit and Val Venis. Per typical, it ruled.

Love the Genichiro Tenryu choice. Him selling a Taker beatdown would be :mark:. Not a fan of the Jake Roberts choice since he never really was that good of a wrestler, but the reasoning for the choice was good. Lawler is an interesting choice for #1, but I too would prefer him as the heel in that scenario. I just can't imagine a face Lawler successfully being able to draw any sort of sympathy against Undertaker in a streak match. My worst fear would be that Lawler would have god awful chemistry with Taker like he did with Flair. I don't blame Lawler for saying that he didn't like working with Flair; that 1982 match was a mess. Real nice read from Cal as expected.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I CAN'T VIEW THE FUCKING WEBPAGE. WHY DO ALL YOUR SITES HATE ME?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck knows :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was just thinking of the Savage/Roberts feud.



Intense as always.


----------



## emil_vlkv (Oct 11, 2010)

*Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

Your favorite WWE Championship or World Heavyweight Championship title changes?

Mine: 
1. Edge winning the WWE championship for first time in 2006. 
2. Mark Henry winning the WHC in 2011.


----------



## JD=JohnDorian (Feb 24, 2012)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

Batista WM21
HBK Survivor Series 02
Daniel Bryan SS13


----------



## The_Workout_Buddy (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

* Kurt Angle at No Mercy 2000
* Eddie Guerrero at NWO 2004
* Benoit at WM 20
* Edge at Survivor Series 2008


----------



## gothmog 3rd (Dec 26, 2010)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

Orton vs Benoit at Summerslam 2004
Big Show vs Sheamus at HIAC 2012


----------



## Resist (Mar 27, 2014)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

Steve Austin at WM 17
Triple H at WM 18
Rock at Vengeance 2002
Eddie at NWO 2004
Benoit at WM 20


----------



## FPT (Mar 27, 2014)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

Benoit at Wrestlemania, in my opinion, is the best ever.

The Kurt Angle at Unforgiven 2001, where he counters a stunner into an ankle lock, Austin taps out, Angle's the champion and his family hold him aloft. That image is probably one of my most memorable as a wrestling fan.


----------



## DGenerationMC (Jan 30, 2011)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

Eddie Guerrero 2004
Punk MITB 2011
Taker WM 23
Benoit WM XX


----------



## Marrow (Sep 3, 2010)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

Foley's first win in late 1998, Benoit's WMXX win, Jericho's second 2008 win (over Batista in a cage, a week after losing the belt to him), and Punk's 2011 MITB win are all favourites.

Being there in person to see Bryan win the big one at Summerslam 2013 (then promptly lose it) is probably most memorable to me though.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

Punk @ MITB 2011


----------



## I Came To Play (Jul 18, 2012)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

CM Punk MitB 2011
Eddie Guerrero NWO 2004
Chris Benoit WMXX


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The greatest tag team of all-time reunited on the 8/10/2000 episode of Smackdown to face Benoit and Val Venis. Per typical, it ruled.
> 
> Love the Genichiro Tenryu choice. Him selling a Taker beatdown would be :mark:. Not a fan of the Jake Roberts choice since he never really was that good of a wrestler, but the reasoning for the choice was good. Lawler is an interesting choice for #1, but I too would prefer him as the heel in that scenario. I just can't imagine a face Lawler successfully being able to draw any sort of sympathy against Undertaker in a streak match. My worst fear would be that Lawler would have god awful chemistry with Taker like he did with Flair. I don't blame Lawler for saying that he didn't like working with Flair; that 1982 match was a mess. Real nice read from Cal as expected.


I can't believe you just said "Jake Roberts was never that good a wrestler".


----------



## dxbender (Jul 22, 2007)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

Orton at Summerslam 2013
Ziggler on Raw after WM
Punk at MITB 2011
Punk cashing in MITB(both times,his first one on Edge,and second one on Hardy)
Edge cashing in MITB on Cena

At least those are my fave from past several years.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Guy had psychology coming out of his ears.


----------



## YES.YES. (May 17, 2012)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

Punk MITB 2011


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

He also only had like ten good matches, and his streak match with Taker sucked. That spot on Cal's list should have gone to Sting or Muta.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I haven't seen too much of Jake, but I really really enjoyed the match Cal pimps w/ Dirty White Boy (is that his name?). His promos are a thing of the gods, though. He's also a huge inspiration in terms of his trials and tribulations in life, so that earns him brownie points. When a wrestler seems like a really cool guy in real life, it always makes me like them more - Whether I like them as a competitor in the first place or not.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> He also only had like ten good matches, and his streak match with Taker sucked. That spot on Cal's list should have gone to Sting or Muta.



Not trying to be a prick, but have you seen all of Jakes matches? From Mid South, Crockett, etc? If not, then how can you say he only had 10 good ones? The Taker match was in the freaking early 1990s, you can't judge him in that. His prime was the 70s and 80s. Steamboat has said he's one of the top 2 guys he was ever in the ring with. He's a guy pretty much universally revered as a great worker by all of his peers. Not to mention, he schooled your boy DDP and helped him turn into a hell of a hand himself. I have yet to see a bad Jake match, out of the 20 or so I've seen.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I've only seen 90s WWF Jake, so I can't comment too much. I just know that he was past his prime and dealing with personal shit by that point.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

*WWE Title*:

Savage - Wrestlemania IV

Hogan - Wrestlemania VII

Undertaker - Survivor Series 1991

Hart - Wrestlemania X

Michaels - Wrestlemania XII

Austin - Wrestlemania XV

Angle - No Mercy 2000

Lesnar - SummerSlam 2002

Guerrero - No Way Out 2004

Edge - New Year's Revolution 2006

Honorable mention: Orton - No Mercy 2007 (LMS)


*World Heavyweight Title*:

Sting - Great American Bash 1990

Flair - Starrcade 1995

Goldberg - Nitro July 1998

Booker T - Bash At The Beach 2000

Jericho - No Mercy 2001

Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXIII

Edge - Backlash 2009

Punk - SummerSlam 2009

Kane - Money In The Bank 2010

Del Rio - Smackdown January 2013

Honorable mention: Cage - Extreme Rules 2011

- Vic


----------



## Brandough (Mar 16, 2014)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

The Rock Backlash 2000
Shawn Michaels Survivor Series 2002
Rob Van Dam One Night Stand 2006
Damien Sandow (When it happens, I know I'll be marking out)


----------



## BRRROCK-LESNAR (Jul 5, 2013)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

Foley winning on RAW
Lesnar vs The Rock SS02
Rock winning- Rock vs Angle vs Taker
Kurt Angle winning the WCW title on smackdown
HBK at the 1st ever EC match


----------



## Skullusion (Dec 19, 2013)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

Orton cashing in MITB on Bryan


----------



## Joff (Dec 17, 2012)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

Orton at SS in 04 was a good one. I remember being utterly shocked as an 11 year old Benoit fan. I didn't expect Orton to win it. The next night on RAW made it epic. 

Austin at WM 14 might be my favorite.


----------



## TNPunk (Jun 8, 2013)

Anyone know why on the survivor series box set DVDs when they show clips from Superstars Of Wrestling, the "Of Wrestling" is blurred?


----------



## Kane Kong (Jan 31, 2012)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

Eddie at No Way Out 2004 and Benoit at Wrestlemania XX, simply because it made the incredible close to the show with the two friends standing tall an proud.It is one of my all time favorite moments.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TNPunk said:


> Anyone know why on the survivor series box set DVDs when they show clips from Superstars Of Wrestling, the "Of Wrestling" is blurred?


They would probably show it if it said 'Superstars Of Sports Entertainment' lol. :side:

WWE abandoned the "Superstars of Wrestling" trademark when they changed the show's name to "WWF Superstars" back in the early 1990s. A Wisconsin indy promoter trademarked the phrase 1994. WWE would have to pay the trademark owner if they used the name now. They own "WWE Superstars," which is why the words "Of Wrestling" are blurred out of the old footage and not the word "Superstars."


----------



## TheOaths (Feb 22, 2014)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

The Boyhood Dream
Eddie at NWO 04
Christian at Extreme Rules 11
Punk at MITB 11
Henry at NOC 11
Ziggler's cash in

You gotta love the ones where the winner of the title gets emotional because they've "finally done it"


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 12
Mankind - RAW 1999
Eddie Guerrero - No Way Out 2004
Edge - New Year's Revolution 2006
Chris Benoit - Wrestlemania 20
Chris Jericho - Unforgiven 2008
CM Punk - Money In The Bank 2011
Mark Henry - Night Of Champions 2011
Daniel Bryan - TLC 2011
Daniel Bryan - SummerSlam 2013


----------



## NoLeafClover (Oct 23, 2009)

*Re: Your favorite WWE/WHC title changes?*

Punk @ MITB 2011


----------



## TNPunk (Jun 8, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> They would probably show it if it said 'Superstars Of Sports Entertainment' lol. :side:
> 
> WWE abandoned the "Superstars of Wrestling" trademark when they changed the show's name to "WWF Superstars" back in the early 1990s. A Wisconsin indy promoter trademarked the phrase 1994. WWE would have to pay the trademark owner if they used the name now. They own "WWE Superstars," which is why the words "Of Wrestling" are blurred out of the old footage and not the word "Superstars."


Ah Ok thanks. I actually considered it might be the first scenario but thought that would be a bit extreme to blur it out just to distance themselves from the term 'wrestling'.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

[email protected] Jake sucking, sure he sucked in WWF(in the ring) but he was so fucked up at that point, Mid south and Crockett he has TONS of good matches, his best match being with the Dirty white boy that was pimped above. If you havent seen anything besides WWF Jake then you havent really seen Jake 

And I hate to say it, but not EVERYTHING in pro wrestling is ring work..


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jake had the Steamboat and Savage series in WWF too so not like he didn't have anything good there either...

I think Roberts gets VASTLY underrated in terms of ring work by a lot of people these days. Good that he does at least get acknowledged for having such a great mind and shit in terms of "psychology", but in his prime (and even times outside his prime) he was damn good in the ring too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Jake had the Steamboat and Savage series in WWF too so not like he didn't have anything good there either...
> 
> I think Roberts gets VASTLY underrated in terms of ring work by a lot of people these days. Good that he does at least get acknowledged for having such a great mind and shit in terms of "psychology", but in his prime (and even times outside his prime) he was damn good in the ring too.



It's very telling that you literally cannot have Jake brought up in an interview with another wrestler and not have said wrestler trip all over themselves to sing Jakes praises as both a worker, promo man, and all around wrestler. Steamboat, Ted DiBiase, Taker, Foley, Austin, Jim Ross, Hogan, etc. Have all gone on record and spoken about how highly they thought of Jake Roberts as an in ring performer. Regardless of what any of us think (I happen to think Jakes awesome) you simply cannot deny that when THAT many people, who probably have 60+ world title reigns between them, think someone is a great wrestler, they must be pretty damn great.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't think I've seen a one on one Jake match yet. But his mic work... wow. All it took was a 2 minute compilation of his work and I was already sold on him being a top 10 all time talker.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> You know Undertaker vs. Bryan could be something special if they ever decide to go down that path. I'd take it!


See, now I've gotten myself way too worked up out of this scenario that will probably never get to happen. 



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> #WVWMWeek Day 4 - Top 10 Streak Matches to Never Happen!!! http://wrestlingview.co.uk/?p=1341


omg :hb

gonna read it NOW



The Lady Killer said:


> I CAN'T VIEW THE FUCKING WEBPAGE. WHY DO ALL YOUR SITES HATE ME?


:lmao

FUCK

------------

Jake Roberts owns all our souls. He's that much >>>. The Dirty White Boy tag making the rounds is marvelous.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> He also only had like ten good matches,


Yeah, if you've only seen 12 of his matches.



SMITTY said:


> [email protected] Jake sucking, sure he sucked in WWF(in the ring)


No way, he had a super run in the 80s. Jake/Steamboat 9/8/86 is one of the better WWE matches of all time.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^^I meant his 90s run when he was all fucked up 

Struggling to finish SVS 2000 atm, such a FLAT show


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's not a special show by any stretch, but I've always breezed through it no problem. Even that crummy main event. But, I've seen it gosh knows how many times. Survivor Series 2000 - first full PPV I ever owned on VHS. Useless information. But it had Undertaker in a championship match w/ridiculous pants. I had to own it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Show has Undertaker giving Angle his first great match, so that's something too. And he did it in THOSE PANTS.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was going to find THOSE PANTS and post a pic for a chuckle. Instead I think I found something better:










Nobody is more American than the dead man.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao looks like he was exposing himself after covering up with a flag :lmao.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh and here's a pic of THOSE PANTS just for you Cody:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Despite being a massive fan of Angle and Undertaker's chemistry, I don't remember being a huge fan of the SvS 2000 match, even with THOSE PANTS :mark:

Gonna go watch their SD 03 match now


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Look at the bold fashion sense of Undertaker. Making a statement. :homer6


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Can anyone honestly explain why WWE is so against the American Badass gimmick? Why do they like to pretend it didn't happen? I personally dug it and still dig it, and I'm glad they atleast covered it on the 30 minute Streak documentary. But it just seems to me like they willfully are trying to ignore that aspect of Takers career. Why else wouldn't Takers previous matches with Brock get brought up for the build to WM 30? It seems "Taker has never pinned Lesnar, Lesnar has pinned Taker and beat him in his own match!" Would be a talking point Michael Cole would bring up atleast twice a week whenever they do segments for Taker/Lesnar. Too bad with the PG rating they can't show an image of Taker with blood gushing down his forehead and Brock standing over him victorious. That could be some powerful motivation for Taker.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Survivor Series 2000 review 

Match #1: T&A & Trish Stratus Vs Steve Blackman, Crash Holly & Molly Holly*

Welp, one team looks really good while the other team has only one semi decent guy in Steve Blackman , hopefully this is kept short because it looks to be pretty boring unfortunately, just like this whole show I guess. This was actually really good in bursts, the best part of the match was for sure the one minute or so that Albert and Blackman were in their together for a whole minute was simply :mark: so even though the match did drag at some points it still doesn’t deserve a rating under one star because out of the 5 minutes maybe 2-3 minutes I enjoyed. Thankfully the match was short because any longer would have turned the match into a spiral, but this was a decent opener. ***

CAL SCALE: 0.5 

Match #2: Road Dogg, K-Kwik, Billy Gunn & Chyna Vs The Radicals*

WOW three members of DX! Wait, why the fuck is R-truth in this? No wonder all these fuckers went to TNA or porn, at least on one of the teams. This will probably be good because the radicals are awesome; yes I’m a Perry Saturn fan. Meh this was pretty disappointing, Truth had the best part of the match which is saying something, I didn’t know he was so agile in his younger days, any hidden gems from his first run to watch for? Radicals win, YAY, really disappointing match. ***

CAL SCALE: 0.5 

Match #3: Kane vs Chris Jericho* 

Their LMS match at Armageddon is a fucking DUD so this hopefully is much better or NO BUYS for these two. This was MUCH better than the shitty LMS match at the ppv after this which was my least favorite LMS match of all time. This was simply a good brawl and both men did pretty well, it isn’t a classic, but it might end out being the best match on the show, Kane did really well in this to me, 

Jericho was good too, but Kane was great.* ***1/4 

CAL SCALE: 2

Match #4: William Regal vs Hardcore Holly*

Considering this apparently goes to DQ and I gave their Armageddon match a DUD, I’ll skip this.* NO 

CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #5: Rikishi vs the rock *

This should be fun, RIKISHI SELLING :mark:. Starting to like the Rock a bit more now, guess im off the hate train atm, at least for his first run. This was FUN as fuck, it was just never boring, the entire match was entertaining from start to finish and was never really boring at all, crowd was great too. Honestly shocked that Rikishi could work such a fast paced match for a good 10 minutes, the Rock can obviously but Rikishi seems like he would get gassed quickly with this having such a really quick pace, which only made the match better of course. So this means FUCKING RIKISHI HAS BETTER CARDIO THAN BOOTISTA. :ti at that realization, but :mark: at the match, was so much fun, underrated gem. ****1/2 

CAL SCALE: 3 

Match #6: Lita vs Ivory 

Considering I just gave Rikishi/Rock a great score I don’t feel bad skipping this at all because Ivory sucks. NO 

CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #7: Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker *

:mark: this should be good, not a HUGE fan of they’re FL match and I’ve been dying to see the SD 2003 match for a long time, cant seem to find it anywhere, LINKZ PLZ. But this apparently is a bit better than the FL 2000 match which is good, doubt it touches NWO 2006 though, even if I do find that match to be a bit overrated. What the fuck is Taker wearing? They look like female camoflauge :lmao. STIFF PUNCHES early on :mark:. Why isnt this the main event? Fucking Austin and HHH is probably going to be a flat out DUD. Match is pretty good, best part is the FIGURE 4 ON THE RING POST :mark: that was so cool. Its a fun brawl and even though 2000 was a pretty bad year for taker he did well here and I really like Angle in 2000 and I think he did well here too. Definitly a great preview for there future matches where they just fucking killed it, but this was still really good. I take this over Rock/Kishi by a hair as my MOTN so far and this closes the only good parts of this show. ****1/2

CAL SCALE: 3 

Match #8: Edge & Christian & The Goodfather & Bull Buchanan Vs The Dudley Boys & The Hardy Boys*

This just was a flat out boring, Goodfather and Bull as the tag champs is just so bad :lmao and some people say the tag division was GOAT in 2000 , OK it was pretty good but that’s just a jab at the attitude era marks :lol. But considering the clientele this sucked HARD, was expecting AT LEAST a *** match but this just brought nothing at all to the table, HUGE bummer. There was a QUADRUPLE DDT which was :mark: but that was literally the only thing I enjoyed about the match, just nothing good. Finish is the dumbest thing ever. Goodfather clotheslines someone, falls over and gets pinned fpalm. *1/4*

Match #8: HHH vs Steve Austin *

Horrible, this is just flat out BAD, it’s a mix of a boring brawl and a shitty weapons spotfest which creates the ultimate shitty match. I’m a huge mark for HHH in 2000 and Austin in the AE is an immediate :mark: reaction but this was just shitty and there really is no way getting around it. They eventually go backstage which was a given from the beginning because GOING BACKSTAGE MAKES A MATCH GOOD IN THE ATTITUDE ERA . This shitfest “ends” when Austin dumps HHH upside down in a car from like 20ft using a forklift, what the fuck? Apparently HHH comes back like 2 weeks later too fpalm. *DUD 

CAL SCALE: 0 

TOTAL CAL SCALE: 7 
*
*Current 2000 PPV rankings 

1: Judgment day (20)
2: The Royal Rumble (17)
3: Unforgiven(15.5)
4: WrestleMania 2000(13)
5: King of the ring(11) 
6: Insurrextion (8.5)
7: Survivor Series (7) 
8: Armageddon (4)
*​


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

For whatever reason, Vince hates the gimmick and likes to pretend Undertaker has always been the Dead Man lol. Same reason they didn't mention WM 17 during BOTH recent HHH WM matches.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Dem pants :taker :lmao :lmao

HHH/Austin at Survivor Series fpalm Such a shame too. 

Just watched Edge/Foley Mania, and FUCK. This is GOAT from the start, when Edge hits the spear on Foley and Foley reveals that he's wrapped himself in barbed wire. Fucking brilliant. That finish :kobe6

Gonna jump to the main event of that show for dat :trips3 and dat :cena4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tbhayley, I've actually been oblivious to to notice the lack of ABA history from WWE. By gum, they don't show or mention it. At all.

Foley vs Edge - hell yeah. What a blast.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Still furious at the finish to Triple H/Cena from WM22. 

I'll probably never get over it.

Speaking of Edge, when was the LMS match he had w/Benoit that was really good (at least based off memory)? I just remember someone getting their skull caved in by a FUCKING BRICK.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Benoit vs Edge still rocks. There's some good hate shown, spots w/o being roll your eyes level, & a fucking brick. I'm a fan.

WM 22 ending. :hb


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I ASKED WHEN IT WAS, CODY


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Backlash 2005 :banderas

I wasn't watching in 2006, so I don't get mad at the finish. That match is awesome, though. Chicago :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Backlash, there we go. Thanks (Y)


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Foley vs. Edge was indeed awesome. Doing the Mandible Claw with a Mr. Socko wrapped in barbed wire = SICK. Plus, Lita's attire :homer

Triple H vs. John Cena was great as well. Punk in Cena's entrance :lol and dat crowd. I personally enjoyed Wrestlemania 22 and consider it to be one of the better ones. It had a fun Money in the Bank match, an awesome ass-kicking with HBK/Vince, the last great Divas match in Trish/Mickie, a decent Taker/Henry casket match, and Foley/Edge being awesome with a hot crowd in the main event. Good show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

Totally read that as something different.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I've got a dirty little secret....

I've never seen Cena/Triple H from WM 22. 


Should I change that? I know the finish, so I atleast know Ill enjoy watching Trips tap like the pansy bitch he is to possobly the weakest submission finisher of all times. But other than that, the match up just does nothing for me on paper. I stopped watching in late 2005 after Eddie died and didn't come back to watching full time until early 2009, so there are a few big matches from 2006-2008 I've missed. That's prolly the biggest one though.

TLK- Benoit/Edge LMS is absolutely awesome. Definitely check it out at your earliest convenience. Here's one of my stupid lists so Cal can shit all over it p):

Best LMS matches:

1. Jericho/Trips FL ****3/4
2. Umaga/Cena RR ****1/2
3. Foley/Rocky VDM ****1/4
4. Edge/Benoit BL ****1/4
5. Batista/Taker BL ****1/4
6. Cena/Batista ER ****1/4
7. Trips/Orton NM07' ****
8. Show/ADR SD ****

Haven't seen the Shane/Show one from BL 2001, is that any good?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match is trash. But, the crowd is super hot & the finish owns all of them, so that's great. But, yeah...match sucks.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I enjoy HHH/Cena I quite a bit. DAT ATMOSPHERE. :mark: Tbh, I don't remember much from the action itself, just enjoy the fuck out of it with the hot crowd.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Alrighty. I'll try to go in without any bias and see how it goes.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Atmosphere is off the charts, and it's funny to see Cena get booed for the entire duration that match, then get cheered when H taps. 

Hunter's entrance :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

When the crowd reaction is the only positive the match has...:lol

Not the best quality when hearing about it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hunter's entrance is GOAT and the story of Cena not yet being on HHH's level in the ring was great with Hunter schooling him from the outset. *Insert "but who is going to teach HHH how to wrestle?" comments here*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I didn't even have that cross my mind, but that's a good one.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I still like the Mania match, but the Backlash triple threat is a nice gem. Probably like it more than Mania actually.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah, the triple threat is tons better, tbhayley.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH/Cena > HBK/Cena 8*D

Kidding, but I still like HHH/Cena.

Backlash triple threat is better though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Backlash triple threat >>>>>>>>>>> WM 22. God why did I just sit through that? It's not like it was the WORST match ever or anything, it's just like a barely average match with a nuts crowd. Certainly not suitable for a WM main event. "FUCK YOU CENA" :lmao. I get the story they were trying to go for, it's essentially the story for the 2005 Angle/Cena matches, and we all know how well that turned out. Just not a fan of this at all, Hunter wasn't on his "game" so to speak, and this was not the type of match most suited to hide Cena's weaknesses and accentuate his positives. Should have been a no DQ match with some brawling, or something. I don't know.

Just remembering that BL match, that's the one where Hunter and Cena take turns bouncing Edge's head off the announce table, and Hunter hits a massive pumper near the end and bleeds all over the place, right? Great match, probably a top 5-6 triple threat in WWE history.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:hb

I put up the red flag, remember that.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Anyone got a good WCW PPV match recommendation for me? You know my favorites....


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Terry Funk vs Tully Blanchard - Slamboree 1994


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Terry Funk vs Tully Blanchard - Slamboree 1994



That is one hell of a match up, wonder why I've never heard of it before. Thanks will get on it now (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Next choice after it: Midnight Express vs Brian Pillman & Tom Zenk - Capital Combat

:mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Anyone got a good WCW PPV match recommendation for me? You know my favorites....


Cactus Jack v. Dustin Rhodes, Main Event 8/30/92
Cactus Jack v. Dustin Rhodes, Main Event 9/6/92
Jake Roberts v. Dustin Rhodes, SN 9/26/92
Dustin Rhodes v. Bobby Eaton, Power Hour 5/8/92
Dustin Rhodes v. Bobby Eaton, WorldWide 5/9/92
Rick Rude v. Nikita Koloff, WorldWide 7/25/92
Rick Rude v. Brian Pillman, Pro 2/15/92
Ricky Steamboat v. Arn Anderson, Pro 3/28/92
Steve Austin v. Barry Windham, WorldWide 6/13/92
Vader v. Ron Simmons, Saturday Night 8/8/92
Bobby Eaton v. Ricky Steamboat, WorldWide 4/4/92 (more angle than match, but totally amazing)


OK, I'm not going to lie, I only realised you said ''PPV'' half way into writing this, but kept it and wrote more because these are really fun matches, some excellent, that a human being who enjoys the sweaty man graps should watch. Made them all TV matches, too, because...I don't know, I'm a jackass that gives you almost the opposite of what you asked (I should have listed WWF Tv matches for the hell of it). Made them all from 1992 b/c best year ever ever EVER, and all of them are at a decently small/middle length, too. Ranging from 7 to 12 or so minutes, I think. And to think I left out a shit ton of stuff. I didn't even list a tag. Goddamn you, 1992 WCW; you had too many good matches.



As for PPV you could watch Brian Pillman at his peak carry Tom Zenk at WrestleWar and Raven at Beach Blast to the best match of their careers. Or you could be horribly disappointed by the Austin/Rhodes trainwreck from Starrcade 93.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Edit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh wow, Fremantle have a WM sale finally. You can get WM 19 on Bluray for a superdupercheap price of... £19.99? :lmao seriously? Didn't SV sell WM's for less than that normally, without any special fucking offers? I want to own the show for my collection, but fucking £20 for it? Bollacks to that. Maybe NEXT YEAR they'll knock a few quid off it since it'll be slightly older...

WIN Undertaker's Streak Bluray (region B, but if you have region free BR player then the comp is open worldwide) on today's #WVWMWeek video!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, their definition of 'sale' certainly differs from SV's 

Didn't see this great tag match uploaded anywhere: 

*Great Sasuke + Black Tiger vs. Wild Pegasus + Shinjiro Ohtani (New Japan 10.16.94 - Jr. Tag League Finals)*

x1lsviv


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Oh, that Jr. tag! :mark: Haven't seen it in years.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Cactus Jack v. Dustin Rhodes, Main Event 8/30/92
> Cactus Jack v. Dustin Rhodes, Main Event 9/6/92
> Jake Roberts v. Dustin Rhodes, SN 9/26/92
> Dustin Rhodes v. Bobby Eaton, Power Hour 5/8/92
> ...



Dude that's perfect thank you, I'll just watch those on DM or YT. Cactus vs Dustin :mark:



The Hitman said:


> Yeah, their definition of 'sale' certainly differs from SV's
> 
> Didn't see this great tag match uploaded anywhere:
> 
> ...


Gonna watch this after those Cactus/Dustin matches thank you.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was talking about The Undertaker earlier and in regards to the streak, came across this.

For Taker at Mania 19 I'd have him go singles against Big Show which is where they started going anyway or vs John Cena as the rookie chancing his luck against the veteran, basically what they did two months later anyway.

For 15 instead of Bossman I'd have gone maybe with Ken Shamrock, could've been a better match and could've built more of a story bout the cell being at home for shamrock too (Octagon/Lions Den), considering they did have a match a month later at Backlash.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Somewhere in this thread I was stating Eddy's earlier work wasn't elite level. Then came this match, which I wonder as to why it wasn't either uploaded earlier or I hadn't seen before (outside of the DVDVR 90s Top 10 listing). You have Benoit and Sasuke, hot off the heels of their fabulous Super J Cup match and 90s Ohtani in the mix yet, despite this, Eddy's the star of a fun match.




The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Dude that's perfect thank you, I'll just watch those on DM or YT. Cactus vs Dustin :mark:
> 
> 
> 
> Gonna watch this after those Cactus/Dustin matches thank you.


Add these from 1992:
92-12-28 Brian Pillman & Barry Windham Vs Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas (WCW)
92-02-29 Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes Vs Larry Zbyszko & Steve Austin (WCW)


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

FWIW, there's another Sami Zayn masterclass on NXT this week. It's not a great match by any means, I wouldn't even call it good, but Sami shows why he's one of the best in the world once again.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

This is from different timelines, but Undertaker vs. Killer Khan would be a blast.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Fuck you all I'm actually looking forward to Wrestlemania. The last segment on RAW with Bryan was awesome and I lost my shit because I'm a ridiculous Bryan mark and seeing Hunter sell like that for him was hilarious and great at the same time. Bryan finally unleashes some hell. I really think they've done well with this over the last month. This is what I'm looking forward to most and that's quite a lot, tbh. I'm going in with lower expectations because it's Triple H but I'm still expecting Bryan to pull something fantastic out since it's the biggest match/moment of his career.

Cena/Wyatt I'm also quite looking forward to, mainly because Wyatt hypes me the fuck up just by standing there and doing nothing. Guy is BEAST and if he goes HAM like he did at RR against Bryan and Cena brings his A-game this should be at least really good imo and should have a big match feel. The crowd are un-intentionally playing in to the story by cheering Wyatt too which adds to it.

Taker/Lesnar...build sucks but I liked Lesnar taking Taker with a clothesline and an F-5. Made him look pretty awesome even if the last few weeks he's looked fucking stupid. It's Taker and Lesnar, so I'm excited.

Nothing else will be good, so whatever, but it's Wrestlemania and there's three matches I'm hyped about so fuck it.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Agreed.

Mania should be fun.

Matches look solid and you cant go wrong with :austin making an appearance.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't get the WM hate. The build-up has been mostly good and I'm very much looking forward to the show. Brock/Taker is pretty much guaranteed to be good, Bryan/HHH should be quality and Orton in the main event is of automatic interest for me. Plus with Bryan (or HHH) added to the mix, it has a bigger chance of delivering.

Oh and Austin's first appearance after 3 years should be great. :mark:


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I don't get the WM hate. The build-up has been mostly good and I'm very much looking forward to the show. Brock/Taker is pretty much guaranteed to be good, Bryan/HHH should be quality and Orton in the main event is of automatic interest for me. Plus with Bryan (or HHH) added to the mix, it has a bigger chance of delivering.
> 
> Oh and Austin's first appearance after 3 years should be great. :mark:




It's because massive dream matches aren't happening. So many people on here always expect it, but it's become rare. I'm all for the card outside of the battle royal. Would have loved to see a shield triple threat, but They're probably saving it for summerslam or something. 

How ANYONE can bitch about this year's build up and card over last year's will always boggle my mind.


----------



## youmakemeleery (May 27, 2013)

So, I started watching Wrestlewar 1992 as I never got to see any old WCW stuff and I am kind of a rookie pre-1996. I only got through one single match so far.

The Freebirds vs. Greg Valentine and Taylor Made Man
This match was boring the hell out of me in the beginning. I thought the crowd was pretty into it, which made it fun, but it seemed slow. Greg valentine looked like he didn't want to be there. Although, around the halfway point it started picking up speed. I got decently into it after the 50 tags in a row from the freebirds. It was a fun spot. 
2.5 Stars from me. 

I do have a question though. I got so annoyed at Michael Hayes, because he kept dancing in the ring during the match and showboating. I get that it was part of the act, but there were times were I was practically screaming for Greg Valentine to just punch that cocky asshole in the face, but he just stood and watched. I honestly thought it made the heels look so terrible that they never smacked Hayes for showing off.

Was it normal for him to do that much dancing and shit, even when his opponent was standing? Also, I grew to like Greg Valentine the most in this match by the end. The heel team entertained me much more.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> How ANYONE can bitch about this year's build up and card over last year's will always boggle my mind.


So let me ask you what is DRASTICALLY better w/ this build up and card as opposed to last years ? Both are shite, but I'd take last years build 7 days out of the week. Besides The Cena/Wyatt feud and bryan/hhh feud (the past 2-3 weeks alone, that "YES MOVEMENT" segment was fpalm how can anyone be remotely interested in this mania is beyond being a bryan,hhh,wyatt and I guess Orton for even being in this position mark. Bubz,TLK,SD and a few others have name specifically why they are and I understand that,So I guess its more of a rhetorical question


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

SKINS said:


> So let me ask you what is DRASTICALLY better w/ this build up and card as opposed to last years ? Both are shite, but I'd take last years build 7 days out of the week. Besides The Cena/Wyatt feud and bryan/hhh feud (the past 2-3 weeks alone, that "YES MOVEMENT" segment was fpalm how can anyone be remotely interested in this mania is beyond being a bryan,hhh,wyatt and I guess Orton for even being in this position mark. Bubz,TLK,SD and a few others have name specifically why they are and I understand that,So I guess its more of a rhetorical question




I barley watched last years live. That never happens with me. All I watched was the opening match that wasn't special at all, Punk/Taker, and Cena/Rock. 

I gave 2 flying shits about everything else. Who the hell cared about HHH/Lesnar, Fanango/Jericho, Henry/Ryback? Del Rio vs Swagger was by far the worst WHC match in WM history. 

This year has a chance to offer a massive ultimate WM moment with Bryan winning seeing the crowd go nuts, not the stupid obvious Cena getting his win back shit.

All and all, this year's is far more unpredictable and has a chance to deliver a huge moment in wrestling history.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Del Rio vs Swagger was totally worse than Danielson vs Sheamus only going 18 seconds.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Del Rio vs Swagger was totally worse than Danielson vs Sheamus only going 18 seconds.



Honestly it was. At least I got a laugh out of Sheamus/Bryan

Del Rio vs Swagger I was playing ps3


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Edge/Jericho,HHH/Batista,HHH/Jericho wm 18 and bryan/sheamus all say hi to that WHC remark, wasnt that bad of a match

I think your personally hatred towards wm 29 is clouding your judgement abit brother


Edit: And not to call you out, but this whole "Cena blah" is so lame, he is the TOP GUY, the top guy will always be in the main match


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

SKINS said:


> Edge/Jericho,HHH/Batista,HHH/Jericho wm 18 and bryan/sheamus all say hi to that WHC remark, wasnt that bad of a match
> 
> I think your personally hatred towards wm 29 is clouding your judgement abit brother




Nope that's your opinion. You have yours I have mine. IMO match quality doesn't matter when no one even cares about the 2 competitors.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jericho vs Edge. Good call. I immediately had Mysterio/Orton/Angle pop up as something actively worse, pardon 18 seconds.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Del Rio/Swagger wasn't AWFUL... it was just more of a "hey, this would have been a somewhat decent TV main event at best" kinda match. I still :lmao at Swagger getting a JOBBER ENTRANCE at WM for a WHC match :lmao. That's what weed does to ya, kids! Overall WM 29 is far from a bad show, just didn't have anything special on it aside from the STREAK match (oh hey my site has a competition to win the Streak Bluray set yey!).


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

SKINS said:


> I think your personally hatred towards wm 29 is clouding your judgement abit brother


His judgment regarding how much he enjoys something depends on his personal opinion? migod


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Apparently I was the only guy who assumed Swagger would get jipped like that b/c of the run-in w/the fuzz. Got to get that punishment in some way. :troll


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

My hatred for 29 is how awful and lazy the booking was. Punk/Taker was awesome and the opening match was OK. Not a shield match anyone will brag about though. Everything else sucked in my own opinion, but everyone has their own opinion.


Edit: They tried making Brock/HHH an epic encounter and the crowd was absolutely dead for it :lmao


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Can we talk about how AWESOME Bray Wyatt is pls in a non-pyro way.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> His judgment regarding how much he enjoys something depends on his personal opinion? migod


No, his personal opinion of hatred towards wm 29 is clouding his judgement on this years mania and build being SO much better compared to last years when it really isnt unk2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He's alright. Admitted I've barely seen any of his stuff building up to the Cena WM match because, well, I've barely watched ANYTHING for the last couple of weeks. Have been enjoying him more since his match with Bryan at the RR though. That + Shield matches + random 6 man tags to build up to Shield matches all showed him in a new light. I just don't care enough about him yet to watch everything he does.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bubz said:


> Can we talk about how AWESOME Bray Wyatt is pls in a non-pyro way.


I dunno how Pyro even does it, tbhayley. But sure. Then it means we'll find a way to chat about Luke Harper next.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I watched Vengeance 2003 on the Network (finally got on)... damn that was a fun show. Now all they need to do is put up all the Smackdowns from 2002-2003 and I'll be happy.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Every time I see Wyatt, I think King in Yellow, so yeah he's pretty awesome.



SKINS said:


> No, his personal opinion of hatred towards wm 29 is clouding his judgement on this years mania and build being SO much better compared to last years when it really isnt unk2


What was better about last year's build up, pray tell.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Will be rooting for Cena on Sunday. Wyatt does nothing for me and it'll be worth it just to see Pyro's rants.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Did WM 29 have ANYTHING good during the build up? Maybe in making THE SHIELD look awesome every time they came out, but aside from that? I'm struggling to think of anything personally.

Build this year has been shit too, but people seem to be enjoying the last few weeks for Bryan/HHH and Cena/Wyatt which would put it infinitely above anything from last year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Last year's build only had the two Rock/Cena and the bloody BROCK/HHH brawl going for it. Everything else was pure shit. I'd exclude the bench press challenge between Ryback and Henry too, but yeah, nothing else stood out at all. They tried selling the faces against The Shield by having them squash 3MB. I'm sure that showed them!


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I genuinely mark out for Bray. Harper is great but Bray has something about him that generates a child like feeling within me when he's on screen. I'm more talking about in general rather than in the ring, even though I think he's good in the ring without doing anything much, but that all comes from his character work which is fucking phenomenal in and out of the ring. Best in the biz in that department imo, and his promo's. Like something straight out of a serial killer/supernatural movie or like hohenheim said King In Yellow which feels like exactly the thing he's going for. Crowd seems to be getting behind him, they clearly mark out when he says the name of the city they're in followed by the 'we're here' line. He just has IT for me, and I fucking mark whenever the weird scream happens and lights go off followed by the lantern etc. At first I didn't care, but more recently he's been killing it and his promo's have become more and more interesting with more depth and actual point to them, which in turn makes his stuff in the ring better. The way he's been playing up to the crowd because they're getting in to his stuff is amazing. I just think he's a phenomenal character worker that makes everything count and everything feel interesting. The type of worker that doesn't need to be incredible in the ring 'technically' (whatever the fuck that means now) to be great 'in the ring'.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

WM 29 build wasn't good at all, this year is pretty shitty too no doubt but this years build has been a bit better basically because of HHH/Bryan which has been great every week imo


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Every time I see Wyatt, I think King in Yellow, so yeah he's pretty awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> What was better about last year's build up, pray tell.


W/O turning this into a Mania 29 vs. 30 debate, I'll say this

Problem with last years is, it was a good event just wasnt special or had that feeling. Problem with this years is, what is the card outside of 3 matches ? the title/ hhh vs. bryan and cena/wyatt. This corp angle has been botched beyond believe and the hhh/bryan didnt start to become good until HHH beat the shit out of him that raw. There has been ZERO build for the shield and andre the giant battle royal. It just feels like such a meaningless event too me tbh

I'll also say 1) Punk/Taker build was better than anything this year and 2) at least the shield didnt wrestle 80 year olds and Kane last year :bosh7

That is all


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

*WCW GREED 2001*
*March 18th, 2001*
*Jacksonville Memorial Coliseum, Jacksonville, Florida*


*Singles match*
Jason Jett vs Kwee-Wee

_KWEE-WEE :lmao Who the hell did this guy piss off to get stuck with this name and hair? :lmao
Surprisingly long (12 minutes) and decent match between two jobbers, with some great moves, like the springboard DDT,
slingshot somersault clothesline and the standing moonsault all from Jett. Jett almost breaks his damn neck at one point
when Kwee-Wee tries to reverse the powerbomb from the top-rope to a hurricanrana but fails. 
Jett throws Kwee Wee out of the ring, and while Kwee-Wee is getting up, Jett starts playing possum in the ring, luring
Kwee Wee to hit a top rope elbow on him, which fails as well. :lmao Jett then hits his finisher on Kwee-Wee for the win_ - **1/4 / *****


*WCW Cruiserweight Tag Team Championship Tournament Finals:*
Kidman & Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Kid Romeo & Elix Skipper - **3/4 / *****


*Singles match*
Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Shawn Stasiak - DUD / *****

_Bigelow jobbing to Stasiak in 5 minutes?_ :no:


*Tag Team match*
Lance Storm & Mike Awesome vs. Hugh Morrus & Konnan - ** / *****


*WCW Cruiserweight Championship*
Chavo Guerrero Jr. (c) vs. Shane Helms - ***1/4 / *****

_These entrance themes are so bad. :lmao VERTEBREAKER :mark:_


*WCW World Tag Team Championship*
Natural Born Thrillers (c) vs. Lex Luger & Buff Bagwell - DUD / *****

_Nothing more than a 1 minute (almost) squash match to put NBT over._


*Singles match*
Ernest Miller vs. Kanyon - ** / *****


*WCW United States Heavyweight Championship*
Booker T vs. Rick Steiner (c) - *** / *****


*Tag Team match*
Dusty & Dustin Rhodes vs. Jeff Jarrett & Ric Flair - ***1/4 / *****

:flair _wrestling in pants and a Hawaii shirt :lmao_


*WCW World Heavyweight Championship: Falls Count Anywhere*
Scott Steiner (c) vs. Diamond Dallas Page - ***½ / *****​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bubz said:


> Taker/Lesnar...build sucks but I liked Lesnar taking Taker with a clothesline and an F-5. Made him look pretty awesome even if the last few weeks he's looked fucking stupid. It's Taker and Lesnar, so I'm excited.


Yeah, im more excited for it the closer Mania gets TBH. I hope Taker busts some MMA shit and stuff out and not just the 'normal' spots. Someone mentioned a great spot they could do where Taker goes for the final pin, sticks his tongue out, but after the count of 2, Lesnar puts him in the Kimura. Would be ace IMO.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

at least Brock didn't win a fatal fourway to face Taker


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

"FATAL FOUR WAY MATCH WITH A SHOT AT THE STREAK ON THE LINE" :lmao.

At least when HBK had to go through Kozlov and JBL or something in 09, they'd really been building to HBK/Undertaker since the RR + teasing it for 2 years beginning at the 07 RR.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Whoever said King in Yellow.....TRUE DETECTIVE :mark: :mark: :mark:

I totally thought the same thing when they first showed the Yellow King in the last few episodes. That entire area where the show took place looks EXACTLY like the sorta place the Wyatt's would come from. I imagine them in that dilapidated church with that massive girl/deer antler painting, with Bray preaching to Rowan and Harper.

For however much we bitch about the current WWE product, and rightfully so as it's incredibly mismanaged and nonsensical at times, atleast in 2013 we got The Shield, The Wyatt's, Daniel Bryan main eventing 4 PPV's and killing it on Raw/Smackdown every week, and the rise of Cesaro. When all is said and done, 2013 saw the creation or rise of 8 bonafide stars. Shitty booking and storylines aside, you can't stop talent, and those 8 guys, along with the phenomenal return of Goldust and formation of Rhodes Bros, made 2013 a damn good year from a match quality stand point.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Both year's build for WM has been bad and did next to nothing for me to care. Undertaker has basically been the only thing to get a rise out of me, but that's every damn year. IE, nothing new.

But yeah, Bray Wyatt is totally wonderful. Even was back on NXT. Their feud has been fairly linear, but the essence of where it lies - IN THE WORDS - is where it's managed to be solid. Still not enough to fix all the rest, but who cares about that. I stopped a while ago.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Spoiler: bllarg



Sorry about not responding to this earlier, but I'll keep it under spoiler tags so as not to disrupt anything. 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Not trying to be a prick, but have you seen all of Jakes matches? From Mid South, Crockett, etc? If not, then how can you say he only had 10 good ones? The Taker match was in the freaking early 1990s, you can't judge him in that. His prime was the 70s and 80s. Steamboat has said he's one of the top 2 guys he was ever in the ring with. He's a guy pretty much universally revered as a great worker by all of his peers. Not to mention, he schooled your boy DDP and helped him turn into a hell of a hand himself. I have yet to see a bad Jake match, out of the 20 or so I've seen.


That is a great point, as a pro's opinion is far more important than ours. One cannot deny the acclaim of these guys. However, this is also a dangerous thing to bring up. Recall that a couple of days ago, Harley Race called Triple H the "best wrestler today". Recall that Kurt Angle is among the most praised wrestlers of the past fifteen years from fellow wrestlers, if not the most praised. Don't forget about that oft-criticized Ironman match at WM XII that we all call out its bullshit for, yet it is the most praised match ever. Oh, and what about that comment Ted Dibiase made recently about how the wrestling in AJPW in the early 1990s lacking any sense of drama and psychology? It's a very slippery slope. 

Jake's prime wasn't really during the 70s either, especially if you want to emphasize his pre-WWF stuff. He really started getting these big feuds with the likes of Ron Garvin and Ted Dibiase in the 80s.



SMITTY said:


> And I hate to say it, but not EVERYTHING in pro wrestling is ring work..


Correct, but everything in judging bell to bell action is in ring work. I don't doubt the man's promo abilities. Heck, I put him above a lot of oft-revered legends such as Flair, Piper, Bockwinkel, and Cornette on the mic.

My "beef" (it's not even beef really) with Jake Roberts is that a lot of times, I just don't feel as if the action in the ring in his matches is anywhere near the level of emphasis put on his "psychology". Now I'm not asking him to do 630 sentons and tombstone piledrivers, but many times, when he is in control, his matches just seem to drag so much. I'm watching this real nice match he's having with Garvin right now, and while Roberts has otherwise been good in it, his offense really annoys me because there's always this "stopgap" of sorts before he actually hits Garvin, even when Garvin is picking up the pace to signify the finishing run. For instance, when Garvin went for a sunset flip in very quick fashion, Jake waited before hitting him with a punch, which bothered me so much because Garvin was trying to speed up the pace, but Jake took so long to hit him, making Garvin look kinda silly being in that sunset flip position waiting for Jake to punch him. It's something I notice so much with Roberts that it's become a pet peeve of mine. That time spent stalling before attacking his opponent can give off a sadistic vibe, but not all the time. Sometimes it ruins the flow of the match or makes the match feel less like a fight, and I think that if he was more aggressive with his offense in those scenarios, it would be more effective and less boring. It also doesn't help that the move that Roberts used to win the match was a meager body slam.

I'm also not a very big fan of some of his other highly revered stuff such as the Steamboat matches or a good amount of the Savage or Rude matches. There was one match in particular where Steamboat and Roberts had a Snakepit match (8/28/86), but neither man adjusted to the scenario. Instead of wrestling a no-DQ fight like the match was advertised, they both just traded restholds with no purpose where Jake later on just forgets to sell his arm and just looked emotionless. Throw in Jake's really slow offense, and I just couldn't get into it. If the Snakepit match was supposed to be a Snakepit match, then why can't Jake once again be more aggressive with his offense instead of slowly walking to Steamboat and take ten seconds just to do one punch on a wrestler in a prone position? Of course, Jake is not the only one that does this, but the difference between the others (such as my beloved Bret Hart in 1997) is that Jake's offense is nowhere near as encapsulating as theirs are when he's in control.

It also kinda bothers me how Jake's resume of matches is not very impressive for a guy that's been around for a long time, and this is where the "ten matches" comment comes in. I even asked you guys a few months ago about some of your favorite Jake Roberts matches, but nobody mustered an answer. In this thread, we only seem to quote two matches of his: the real nice Dustin Rhodes match (where Jake no-sells the arm again for some reason) and the Dirty White Boy match. However, he does have quite a lot of stinkers worth pointing out, such as his AAA matches or his WCCW work that left so much to be desired. Heck, his other match with Dirty White Boy was a weak match sandwiched between awesome segments and promos, which show off what Jake Roberts does more often than not. Once again, isn't it kinda funny how he's never mentioned as one of the all-time greats in in-ring work and people don't seem to make lists of his best matches? Instead, it's his promos that they do that for.

Ultimately, the way I feel about Jake is that he is definitely a good wrestler, but compared to the other folks on that list of Cal's, he stuck out the most as the guy that didn't belong, especially when notable omissions such as Muta were missing. He's very good, and certainly among the best ever for things outside of ring work such as promos and character work, but compared to the other guys on that list such as Benoit and Vader, can you really say he's THAT GOOD in the ring? I say no.

TL;DR: Jake is good, but his greatness is more so outside of the in-ring stuff than in match quality.



What don't you like about the Bryan build-up? I can't think of anything wrong with it. Look at how much people are salivating at the thought of him getting his moment. That feud was meant to end at Mania, and for once, the WWE actually listened to the fans and changed accordingly. Say what you want about Triple H (and I've said many myself as well), but he's been brilliant in this road to Mania.






This exists. And it's fun. Especially Liger.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Say what I want, but then have to acknowledge he's been "brilliant"? Yeah, no. It doesn't even translate to any dislike there. Which is a bit insulting to flat out assume right off the bat. Danielson hasn't done much of anything to make me care either. Never was going to be a point to where I would care. Just down for the match and the victory - at the time before the championship fiasco nonsense - b/c Danielson would get the moment and move on from there. What it built towards since SummerSlam. How it should be. Never cared, but I understood it. Even on the whim of Punker leaving. But the program itself is dire to me. I care to see bad bickering segments between former Evolution members and see Danielson hardly involved pardon the Occupy RAW moment? Nope. Do not. None of this has been fun. It's a simple concept, you know. Not hard to form a reason to care if there is one for the person watching. I also have the mind to not have faith behind WWE to give Danielson the win(s) on Sunday to begin w/.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

> He's very good, and certainly among the best ever for things outside of ring work such as promos and character work, but compared to the other guys on that list such as *Benoit and Vader*, can you really say he's THAT GOOD in the ring? I say no.


Jake not being on level with two all time greats is hardly a slight against him. I mean you seem to think Jake was good anyway so IDK why you'd think ''definitely not as good as Benoit or Vader'' comes off like something against him. 

''Comparing him to Ric Flair, is Mark Henry that good? No.'' 

^That is true, but looks like an insult to Henry's work. Which shouldn't happen b/c Mark Henry is awesome. And if you don't think he's awesome then say why and keep the comparisons with an all time great out of it (unless someone is trying to say Henry is an all timer, in which case comparing to actual all timers would make more sense).



> Once again, isn't it kinda funny how he's never mentioned as one of the all-time greats in in-ring work and people don't seem to make lists of his best matches? Instead, it's his promos that they do that for.


no, that isn't ''funny''. He just isn't an all time great worker, and I don't think anybody here was trying to say he was. Also that doesn't mean fuck all (or does mean fuck all, w/e proper saying is), there are a bunch of awesome wrestlers (better than Roberts, also) who never have their best matches listed but who are definite top 100 all time candidates. Jerry Blackwell, Brian Pillman, Terry Gordy, Greg Valentine, Too Cold Scorpio, Tajiri, TAKA Michinoku, etc. Hell nobody ever lists Terry Funk's best matches and he's as good a #1 all time contender as anyone. Maybe I misunderstood but I don't know where you were going with this sentence. Seemed like you were trying to say why Robert wasn't an all time great worker when nobody thought he was anyway.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm trying to say that there were far better people to put on that spot in the Taker list than Jake.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Interesting, I'm pretty harsh (rightfully so) on Orton post 06, but I've always been very high on this one. I find the christian/orton series p.overrated as it only producted one good match but think this is very good.


There was nothing special about the match, it was great in comparison to the other CRAP on that show, but mediocre at best, plus their was a lot of stalling between moves.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

@ff

I know I shouldn't be, but I'm surprised Cal spent two weeks on that anyway. 


Also I kinda, sorta, maybe agree with that, actually. Taker and Jake have the same sort of ''psychological mindfuck'' thing going on, but, I think that's why they aren't a terribly good match together. When you have one psychological mindfucker going up against a regular human being it creates a cool psychological mindfuck story. Two of them is like ''well they're both psychological mindfuckers so neither of them can be psychologically mindfucked so what now?'' I guess Jake weaseling out of Taker's moves would be cool, but Jake's more ''grimey badass'' instead of ''cowardly hider''.


I hope you were kidding about Muta, though. No need to see that wankstain no-sell the hell's gate because he doesn't feel like it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He's not Mil Mascaras, god dammit.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

worse. :*D

edit ; :$*D

edit: 8D

edit: *8D


edit - what the fuck is the code to that yellow troll smiley


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Mil Mascaras eliminating himself from the 1997 Royal Rumble :lmao :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> worse. :*D
> 
> edit ; :$*D
> 
> ...


Truly fabulous.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What are some examples of Muta no-selling? I haven't really caught up on some of his stuff recently, but I've always liked him because he was my gateway to both 1989 WCW/NWA and NJPW. I recently watched a match between Pillman and I believe Austin where Pillman pulled a UC with his knee. Broke my heart. I'm prepared for the same with Muta. And I guess with Chono, but my "love" for him has decreased from where it was in the past.

EDIT: It was Pillman/Morton.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> worse. :*D
> 
> edit ; :$*D
> 
> ...


8*D


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Muta kicking out of Hogan's leg drop after Hogan kicked out of the moonsault was one of the most pleasing moments I've had being a rasslin' fan. Helps going in knowing Hogan wouldn't lose even if he was on Muta's turf. Then BOOM. Eats the humbling experience.

This has nothing to do w/no selling. I just wanted to bring it up.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> What are some examples of Muta no-selling? I haven't really caught up on some of his stuff recently, but I've always liked him because he was my gateway to both 1989 WCW/NWA and NJPW. I recently watched a match between Pillman and I believe Austin where Pillman pulled a UC with his knee. Broke my heart. I'm prepared for the same with Muta. And I guess with Chono, but my "love" for him has decreased from where it was in the past.
> 
> EDIT: It was Pillman/Morton.


match with Chono in 1992, and pretty much any match he had in 1996 other than with Liger (which is OK but I fell out of love with it) and maybe Shinzaki. Watch him in the middle of an STF or boston crab or pretty much any submission hold. He'll lie there with a blank stare and act like almost nothing is happening until reaching the ropes. He might wave ''no'' with his finger a little, but that's about it. Chono does the same. In the same match. It was awful.

I didn't mean no selling as in sell it then shrug it off, I mean he literally wouldn't sell it in the first place. 



Hohenheim of Light said:


> 8*D


Dang, I was close.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FF made that point to begin w/about the Starrcade match about a month ago. Almost surprised he didn't bring it up again for a point here.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hell I didn't even mean that, I meant the G-1 Semi-Final.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

DAMN YOU


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I want to forget that Starrcade match in favor of the tag matches on that show as well as Vader/Sting. Haven't watched too much mid-late 90s Muta though because nobody I know liked that stuff from him. Match with Liger and Shinzaki were pretty cool spectacles. More than pretty.

Watched another Garvin/Roberts match and it didn't turn out to be good. But now I want some Garvin babyface gems.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The match w/Liger >>>>>>>>>>> the vast majority of the sport itself.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can't wait to show it to my little brother. Maybe after he experiences his first Wrestlemania moment tomorrow. Has anyone seen the Liger anime?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Watched Two-Man Power Trip vs. Brothers of Destruction last night, for the first time in 10ish years, and it's great, of course. Love the match, an awesome face-in-peril segment on Kane, great antics and good brawling, although Austin's sloppy execution was at its all-time high level.

****1/4

- - - - -

The Muto/Chono match quality varies from fucking great to painfully mediocre. I say both guys are generally underappreciated by modern online fans, particularly the bald version of Muto, and the old version of Chono. I gotta LEL at statements about Muto being a bad seller, it cracks me up. Lulz are good for health.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Someone do me a favour and give me some of Scott Hall's best matches? Besides the obvious Wrestlemania X ladder


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

There's loads of Liger matches I like way more than the Muta match tbh. And that folks is my random comment for the day.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

samizayn said:


> Someone do me a favour and give me some of Scott Hall's best matches? Besides the obvious Wrestlemania X ladder


Jeff Jarrett (RR 95)
Vader (IYH)
HBK (Raw 1993 I think)
Bret Hart (RR and KOTR 1993)

Just a quick think. 

A few tags too with kid, like the 'Clique' tag from Action Zone 1994.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*what the hell is that? :lmao*


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

For some reason the only copy of this segment left has the picture and sound horribly out of sync, but anyway. It was going around for the longest time because it has that... I want to say ironic value but it's probably not the right word, of three of the top stars in the last decade when they were still young and hungry and nobody knew just how big they were going to be. But recently the WWE network did a top 10 blunders countdown and, well, that was one of the clips they flashed in the opening :lmao

It's so much funnier to me because the dramatic moment was meant to be Mysterio coming down from the chin-ups and going "I've got Angle tonight" and now the illusion is just shattered :lmao :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What was the date/event when Undertaker came down like Batman in an entrance?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

IIRC the batman entrance was at the Survivor Series 1996. Also, Undertaker's first appearance moving away from the gray/purple gloves attire to more black and leather.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wrestling View's Hall of Fame 2014 (first ever one) is on my BLOG~! today for #WVWMWeek  http://wrestlingview.co.uk/?p=1393

Off to finish editing 2morrow's big video, but I'll probably take some breaks here and there to watch some random matches, so I'll likely post some shit throughout the day .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> IIRC the batman entrance was at the Survivor Series 1996. Also, Undertaker's first appearance moving away from the gray/purple gloves attire to more black and leather.


Thankyou. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Watching Jericho/Christian from WM 20, once again. :mark:

I never get tired of this match (or feud), for some reason. DAT Impaler DDT Christian did on Jericho gets me every time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Didn't see this one uploded either; 

*Taka Michinoku, Shinjiro Otani, Koji Kanemoto, & Tokimitsu Ishizawa vs. Jushin Liger, Gran Hamada, Pegasus Kid (Chris Benoit) & El Samurai (2 out of 3 Falls) (3.14.96)*

x1lzgg8


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Just watched Punk/Cena from MITB 2011. :homer

It was actually my first time watching it without any interruptions, etc. Loved the match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I tried to find flaws in Benoit/Jericho from Summerslam 2000, but I couldn't find any. It still holds up. Blackman/Shane rules too and TLC I sucks as we all know. Main event was also more entertaining than I thought it would be. Yup, Summerslam is the best PPV franchise the WWE ever had.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

TLC I sucking :bosh


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

I saw someone mention the Benoit/Edge LMS match earlier in this thread, I have to say I wasn't really impressed with that match. I love both guys but this match was just a mess. I don't know, I liked the finish but just hated the big spots because it was just too easy to call out. 

Come to think of it last man standing matches are really, really difficult matches to make good when you're a guy who's used to wrestling a faster paced more technical style. Hell the best LMS match I can think of is Umaga/Cena. Does anyone got any that might be better than that?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Flair/HHH>>>>>>>Umaga/Cena 

Orton/HHH>>>>>>Umaga/Cena 

My opinion is a little bit biased considering I find that match to be super duper overrated


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It's been a long time since I last watched it, but I love that Edge/Benoit match. Something about that brick shot made me satisfied for an ending. Last Man Standing matches can be pretty polarizing. Either they're really good, or they turn into nine-count spams. Jericho/HHH is my favorite one.

SMITTY have you seen Umaga/Cena from NYR 2007? Underrated. I can definitely understand people saying the LMS match is overrated. I didn't think it was for one simple reason; that was the only Cena match from 2005-2012 I can think of where I wanted Cena to win. His best babyface performance.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I haven't seen that match, will check it out soon, LOL at me forgetting Jericho/HHH as thats for sure the best LMS match 

top 10 LMS matches, 

1) Jericho/HHH: ****3/4 
2) Flair/HHH: ****1/2 
3) Orton/HHH: ****1/2 
4) Batista/Cena: ****1/2 
5) Batista/Taker: ****1/4 
6) Benoit/Edge: ****
7) Mankind/Rock: **** 
8) Show/Taker: **** 
9) ADR/Cena: ***3/4 
10) Umaga/Cena: ***1/4 

Had to put Umaga/Cena in at #10 because the rest were all TV matches I haven't seen or full blown DUDS like HHH/HBK or Jericho/Kane 

:hunter is apparently the king of LMS matches btw


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I just posted this list a few pages ago lemme copy and paste

Best Last Man Standing Matches:

1. Trips/Jericho FL 2000 ****3/4
2. Cena/Umaga RR 2007 ****1/2
3. Foley/Rocky StVDM 1999 ****1/4
4. Flair/Trips SVS 2005 ****1/4
5. Cena/Batista ER 2010 ****1/4
6. Taker/Batista BL 2007 ****1/4
7. Edge/Benoit BL 2005 ****
8. Trips/Orton NM 2007 ****
9. Show/ADR SD 2013 ****
10. Show/Taker ****

By the way, can ANYBODY find a link for Benoit/Henry SD 2006 that doesn't have Spanish commentary? I'm losing my mind trying to find this sucker. Want to see it SO bad, sounds amazing on paper but can't abide that ridiculous Spanish commentary, it just ruins it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^^our list is exactly the same matches just in different order 

This confirms that their is really only 10 good LMS in total :lmao


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Flair/HHH>>>>>>>Umaga/Cena
> 
> *Orton/HHH*>>>>>>Umaga/Cena
> 
> My opinion is a little bit biased considering I find that match to be super duper overrated


Which one?

I completely forgot about Jericho/HHH. That's probably the only one that is better. I don't see it with Flair/HHH despite my love for Flair.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm an admitted mark for Flair/HHH and I understand that many dont like that match as much at me, but its my #3 LMS for sure 

And Orton/HHH is from NM 2007, Pretty sure they had TWO matches on that show but I cant remember much about the other one


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bubz said:


> There's loads of Liger matches I like way more than the Muta match tbh. And that folks is my random comment for the day.


I'd say that almost unanimous w/most. But, you can't go wrong w/either. GODS



The Hitman said:


> Didn't see this one uploded either;
> 
> *Taka Michinoku, Shinjiro Otani, Koji Kanemoto, & Tokimitsu Ishizawa vs. Jushin Liger, Gran Hamada, Pegasus Kid (Chris Benoit) & El Samurai (2 out of 3 Falls) (3.14.96)*
> 
> x1lzgg8


Well this is just too much.



funnyfaces1 said:


> I tried to find flaws in Benoit/Jericho from Summerslam 2000, but I couldn't find any. It still holds up. Blackman/Shane rules too and TLC I sucks as we all know.


ughhhhh


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> And Orton/HHH is from NM 2007, Pretty sure they had TWO matches on that show but I cant remember much about the other one


The first match is just a fun little brawl. Doesn't run too long at all, and it's nice to watch as part of the show, or maybe for context heading into the LMS match. *** on the opener, ****1/2 on the LMS. Both good.

Edit: That opener could very well be HHH/Orton's third best singles match together. Would only rate the previously mentioned LMS, as well as their LMS on commercial-free RAW above it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Didnt this in full uploaded: 

*CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy - WWE Smackdown 08.28.2009 (Cage Match)*

'Loser Leaves Town' Cage Match

x1m2793


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> By the way, can ANYBODY find a link for Benoit/Henry SD 2006 that doesn't have Spanish commentary? I'm losing my mind trying to find this sucker. Want to see it SO bad, sounds amazing on paper but can't abide that ridiculous Spanish commentary, it just ruins it.


I can upload it for ya at some point. Might be tonight depending on when I decide to sleep .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk vs Hardy Steel Cage. Hot damn. Still thinking it's the best thing from 2009 that isn't Undertaker vs Michaels. Which is damn fine company b/c that match live + me being the Undertaker nut that I am, theoretically, it doesn't count. b/c it can't be beat. So THAT'S how much I love Punk vs Hardy. 8*D


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Hardy CAGE :kobe6 so damn good, favorite cage match of all time w/ flair/Orton, 

Is Big Nash inducting Hall ? Will Punk be there ?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

For once this week, I agree with the Paramore fan. Everything Punk/Hardy is sex.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

SMITTY said:


> 10) Umaga/Cena: ***1/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I tried to find flaws in Benoit/Jericho from Summerslam 2000, but I couldn't find any. It still holds up. Blackman/Shane rules too and *TLC I sucks as we all know*. Main event was also more entertaining than I thought it would be. Yup, Summerslam is the best PPV franchise the WWE ever had.


Has to be sarcasm.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^^^:lmao 

My full Wrestlemania predictions article along with my thoughts and how many STARZ I think it was just posted on my Blog, you guys should check it out 

http://prowrestlingpalace.blogspot.com/


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> I'm an admitted mark for Flair/HHH and I understand that many dont like that match as much at me, but its my #3 LMS for sure
> 
> And Orton/HHH is from NM 2007, Pretty sure they had TWO matches on that show but I cant remember much about the other one


The reason I asked which one is because they've had three last man standing matches against each other. They had the one at No Mercy, they had one at One Night Stand in 2008 and they had one against each other later that year the night after their three stages of hell match if I'm not mistakin?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^it was the Monday before the Three Stages of Hell on PPV.

Ok, it's Saturday. Now WM is starting to sink in. Still not totally "omg" hyped as a whole, but meh. Shoddy build is shoddy build. That Danielson hype video made the kid in me go "could it really happen?" and well, fuck it. I'm gonna let him win for the next few days. I'm not jaded as much as I really just don't think he will win. But now it's HayleySabin wants to have fun mode & Danielson support is sky high. Who knew turning on for the HOF and acknowledging WM is tomorrow will do the trick. Bah. I love wrestling. Isn't really THAT hard to do. 8*D

Plus, less than a day till I see Undertaker in action since that match on Smackdown vs Ambrose. I need it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Everyone stop what you're doing, turn on the Network if you have it, and watch Jake the Snakes speech. This is awesome.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

FINALLY GOT THE NETWORK :mark:

Edit: I LOVE Mr T's momma


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Dat Jake Roberts speech :mark:


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Top 10 WrestleMania matches, IMO:

Steamboat/Savage
Warrior/Hogan
Warrior/Savage
Savage/Flair
Bret/Owen
HBK/Ramon
Rock/Hogan
Vince/Hogan
Benoit/HBK/HHH
HBK/Angle


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

OK its Sunday so now I'm really excited for mania, pretty sure I'll be watching wrestling all day on the network to get excited

If you missed the HOF, Jakes speech was easily the best but Mr t ranting on his momma for 30 minutes was amazing . But I legitimately did like Warrior's too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bit of a random upload; 

*The Steiner Brothers & Keiji Muto vs Masahiro Chono, Kevin Nash & Scott Hall - Japan - (5.3.97)*

x1m7fkq


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just rewatched Edge/Foley, goddamn that match is a classic, ****1/2 for it and it might be my favorite Edge singles match ever, cant think of a better one, only tag thats better is TLC III so its probably his second best match ever.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Fellow Bryan fans, this is the biggest night of our wrestling fanhood. All those years of suffering through the WWE failing to create likable faces. All those years of Triple H "burials". All those years of watching Bryan kill it every night around the world just to pay for gas. It all leads to this.

I don't know what it is about Angle/Edge from Backlash, but I love it so much. I think as much as the Foley match. There's also the Taker matches.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Fellow Bryan fans, this is the biggest night of our wrestling fanhood. All those years of suffering through the WWE failing to create likable faces. All those years of Triple H "burials". All those years of watching Bryan kill it every night around the world just to pay for gas. It all leads to this.


Doesn't feel like "the biggest night", at all, to me. Bryan getting his WM moment will be cool, but there were times when I was far more excited. Like Punk/Cena @ MITB. Was absolutely psyched following the Raw in LV and the Raw in Boston.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That and WM X7 are the only other nights that felt bigger than tonight for me. But when you're also watching alongside a kid that never experienced Mania, everything feels that much better.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Yeah definitely hyped for Bryan's win tonight, better not be some fuckery. I don't even mind if him vs HHH ends in a no contest or something, as long as he gets to be champion by the night's end.

Other than that, really looking forward to Cena vs Wyatt. Wyatt could have a career making victory, hope they let him go over.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

@funnyfaces Fair point. 

Pretty psyched for 'Mania tonight. It should be a good watch. Battle Royal has my attention. Really hoping Ziggler wins it. Brock/Taker should be a great match, and seeing Bryan get his WM moment will be great. 



Spoiler: Spoiler



There were some rumors that Punk will return for 'Mania in a confrontation with Austin. As much as I would absolutely love that and would mark the fuck out, I highly doubt it. Probably complete bullshit.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I think every match on the card can be good outside of the Divas shitfest, I have faith in HHH to bring it at mania and its pretty fucking hard to have a bad match with Bryan at this point. Cena/Wyatt will be good and so will Taker/Brock( my 2 favorites ever so I'm sure I'll enjoy it). The main event likely wont be many STARZ but if Bryan wins(I still think Batista wins) it will be a 5 star moment.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Fellow Bryan fans, this is the biggest night of our wrestling fanhood. All those years of suffering through the WWE failing to create likable faces. All those years of Triple H "burials". All those years of watching Bryan kill it every night around the world just to pay for gas. It all leads to this.


:batista2


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Bryan is not winning the title tonight.

Despite that, I'm excited for 'Mania. Will be watching it live via stream and it'll be on until 4 in the morning over here in the UK and I have to get up at 6 for work but it's 'Mania so fuck it.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Bubz said:


> Bryan is not winning the title tonight.


Why do you say that with such certainty?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I dont know about Bubz, but I am saying Batista wins so that I'm not setting myself up for disappointment, I really hope I'm wrong though, would LOVE to see him win. 

Watching Mania 28 on the WWE network live stream, Taker/HHH is on right now :mark:


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Yeah, they'll give Bryan a win over Triple H which will give him a big win and a WrestleMania moment, pleases the crowd, and adding him into the title match ensures the crowd won't shit over that match as much. But I can't see Bryan beating Triple H and winning the the title the same night, that's too much. Batista will win the title I reckon, and Bryan will win the title later in the year and get a proper reign with it.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I don't know, I think they'll have Bryan go over in both matches. Don't really see them sending the fans home unhappy on this occasion. I think they should and will capitalize on the situation, especially given how great of a moment it would produce.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

At least its an unpredictable scenario unlike Rock vs Cena II last year, no one in their right mind thought Rock would retain so their was ZERO energy in the arena. The crowd this year should be very electric during the main event and all of the other big matches.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

That wouldn't be wise though imo. I'd think they learnt from the Royal Rumble. They will be throwing away one of the best Wrestlemania moments for something people won't look back on too fondly.

I don't know, if Bryan beats HHH, it makes sense that he should go on to win the title tonight. I know I may be massively disappointed but I am feeling optimistic about his chances.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> At least its an unpredictable scenario unlike Rock vs Cena II last year, no one in their right mind thought Rock would retain so their was ZERO energy in the arena. The crowd this year should be very electric during the main event and all of the other big matches.


Yeah, I couldn't spare the fucks to give about Rock/Cena. Though, I preferred a Cena win, b/c I was getting tired of seeing the Rock on TV. Found most of his "storytime w/ The Rock" segments and such to be pretty awful, and wasn't all too happy with the fact that he was the champion. This match isn't as predictable, plus I am legitimately fully behind someone.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Danielson is winning both matches tonight, I honestly have no idea why anyone doubts this. That's literally THE ONLY scenario available and possible. Hell, I don't watch Raw and SmackDown at all (unless someone pimps a great match), and the story revolving the main event scene is clear as day. No chance in hell that heel Batista is closing the show with the title, no matter what his "contract says".


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Another House Show upload; 

*Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels vs Sid (WWF Championship) - (Toronto Skydome, Canada 31-1-1997)*

WWF Handheld - WWF TV Taping (Toronto Skydome, Canada 31-1-1997)

x1m8umd


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Danielson is winning both matches tonight, I honestly have no idea why anyone doubts this. That's literally THE ONLY scenario available and possible. Hell, I don't watch Raw and SmackDown at all (unless someone pimps a great match), and the story revolving the main event scene is clear as day. No chance in hell that heel Batista is closing the show with the title, no matter what his "contract says".



I really, really hope you are right. Suffice to say I don't have nearly the confidence that you do that WWE will do the right thing. My thinking is that WWE considers Bryan to be better "in the chase" than as the actual champion. I could easily see them putting the belt on Dave and having Bryan continue to chase him. The only thing that keeps me from being sure of this is that it's WrestleMania. Vince has a history of having the baby face win the last match of the night, to send the crowd home happy. The only recent exception I can think of to this was 2011 with Miz. That's the only reason I think Bryan stands a chance of winning: having the end of the biggest event in WWE history be Batista standing tall with the belt while boos rain down on him and he shouts "deal with it!" Just doesn't sound all that palatable. It all comes down to whether WWe has finally come around to Bryan being a legit player. I think he most definitely is, but we shall see if they feel the same way in a matter of hours, won't we?

The annoying thing about this is, if WWE had just stuck with their original plans, we could have been treated to an all time great WWE title match. Apparently before Dave came back, the plan was for Bryan to win the Rumble, Punk would them turn on him, win the title at EC, setting them up for a match for the WWE title at WrestleMania. Can you even imagine how awesome it would be to see a OTL12' level match in front of 75,000 in New Orleans?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> The annoying thing about this is, if WWE had just stuck with their original plans, we could have been treated to an all time great WWE title match. Apparently before Dave came back, the plan was for Bryan to win the Rumble, Punk would them turn on him, win the title at EC, setting them up for a match for the WWE title at WrestleMania. Can you even imagine how awesome it would be to see a OTL12' level match in front of 75,000 in New Orleans?


I never read this once. All I ever read was that Punk was winning the Rumble and facing Orton for the belt, and that was in the fall, before Batista returned. 

Either way, I was about 95% sure that Bryan would go over H clean then go on and win the strap, with Dave still winning being a possibility. Now people are saying H could win dirty but Hogan makes it a Fatal Four Way. I don't see that happening since Hogan has had zero interactiong with anyone involved in this, and it wouldn't really make sense, since Trips could easily just override what he says. Sticking with my prediction.

All that said, I couldn't be more excited for Bryan/Hunter. The two segments that closed Raw had me marking like a child. The first when Hunter whipped Bryan while cuffed, then the segment on Monday. I envision that my markdom could match the level it was during Punk/Brock. 

Also looking forward to what Trips does for an entrance this year. :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> The annoying thing about this is, if WWE had just stuck with their original plans, we could have been treated to an all time great WWE title match. Apparently before Dave came back, the plan was for Bryan to win the Rumble, Punk would them turn on him, win the title at EC, setting them up for a match for the WWE title at WrestleMania. Can you even imagine how awesome it would be to see a OTL12' level match in front of 75,000 in New Orleans?


Pretty sure that's nothing more than a bullshit rumor. If that was true, then a bullet was dodged.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Making a bold prediction for one of the surprise entrants tonight in the battle royal. Mania is in NOLA, home of VOODOO, so who else to make a surprise return other than...PAPA SHANGO 

Its gonna happen folks, you heard it here


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Wasn't Cal supposed to ban anyone that made Mania speculations?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The only "superstitious" thing I do in wrestling is watch Rayo De Jalisco matches before any major PPV, as a good luck charm that it'll come out well. Him and his friends are my wrestlecrap standards. I just started watching the Hall of Fame and Lita pulled out his mask. THE SIGNS.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> If that was true, then a bullet was dodged.


bama3


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Wasn't Cal supposed to ban anyone that made Mania speculations?


Pretty sure that was for people posting rumors and shit, but nice try


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

GOAT vs GOAT is in a matter of hours! :mark:


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Saint Dick said:


> GOAT vs GOAT is in a matter of hours! :mark:


I know. Can't wait for TAKER vs. BROCK. It's gonna be a WAR! :mark:



:bryan3


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Still looking forward for a PUnk/Austin confrontation tonight


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone know the date of this promo:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Got on the Network and saw Wrestlemania 29 being played on the live stream... only caught The Rock vs. John Cena. I remember not being too fond of it when I first watched it last year, decided to sit through it here again.

*Wrestlemania 29* - The Rock (c) vs. John Cena - ***3/4*

They went from restholds in the first few minutes to a finisher fest in the final 10-12 minutes. Crazy. Not bad, but not great either. Their first match was way better, IMO.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah I just watched that too, it was OK, I'd go **1/4 though. Pretty much the definition of a finisher fest and the first half was BORING


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Austin/Rock (WM 17) ****1/2

Funny how every time these two met, there was always that one finisher/kickout too much. Earl Hebner was the most annoying human being on Earth in this one, two rope breaks in a No DQ are bullshit, however, everything else was spot on. Great brawl, excellent intensity and SELLING.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Austin/Rock (WM 17) ****1/2
> 
> Funny how every time these two met, there was always that one finisher/kickout too much. Earl Hebner was the most annoying human being on Earth in this one, two rope breaks in a No DQ are bullshit, however, everything else was spot on. Great brawl, excellent intensity and SELLING.



I actually just watched this match a few nights ago, I had it at ****1/2 for forever but bumped it up to ****3/4. I'd even consider having it at 5-stars, except for the problem you just mentioned: one kick out too many. The whole sequence in the end with the chair just seemed a little too much. I'd have been cool with Rocky kicking out of the stunner, Austin taking the chair, delivering a shot to the head, then maybe one or two more while he was down and then make that the finish. They could have trimmed the fat, about 3-5 minutes total, and that match would have been perfect. Also agree with your sentiment about Hebner, he ALWAYS seemed to get in the way in the big matches. Nothing annoys me more than when refs do count outs, rope breaks, or try to force a clean break from the corner in a match with No Disqualifications. It's like, dude, your one job is to know the rules for each match and then to enforce them. How can you forget your reffing a No DQ match?

Things I loved about the match: the brawling, obviously, but my favorite part was actually the trading of submissions. Even though they ended up getting a bit sloppy with the sharp shooter, it was still such a perfectly timed sequence. Especially loved Austin flipping Rocky the bird, then dragging his ass back into the middle of the ring and locking that sharpshooter back in. Outside of Austin/Benoit SD 2001, I can't think of a WWE title match that had a better submission trading sequence than WM 17. I think that WM 17 match is the best WWE title match in WrestleMania history.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Hitman said:


> Another House Show upload;
> 
> *Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels vs Sid (WWF Championship) - (Toronto Skydome, Canada 31-1-1997)*
> 
> ...


Dang, what's the earliest three-way in WWF history? I don't remember one before 1997, this could be before any other three-way on WWF TV.



The Hitman said:


> Anyone know the date of this promo:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: for smaller post


It says 10/28/95 on the video.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:lol Thanks mate, didn't see it.

According to an old Raw magazine, that triple threat is the first one in WWF history.

Didn't realise it when I uploaded it. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I should watch it just to see what kind of formula they go with. Like, was the I Go In, You Go Out 3Way-rubbish used in the first WWF one? stuff like that etc, would be interesting to see how they worked it. (I of course, while saying this, will not watch it for several years)



Also I'm not excited for Mania at all and am in fact annoyed at it because my Great Grey Wolf Sif sig cannot be seen. I'm giving preference to a photo over WrestleMania. You've done good, WWE.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I should watch it just to see what kind of formula they go with. Like, was the I Go In, You Go Out 3Way-rubbish used in the first WWF one? stuff like that etc, would be interesting to see how they worked it. (I of course, while saying this, will not watch it for several years)
> 
> 
> 
> Also I'm not excited for Mania at all and am in fact annoyed at it because my Great Grey Wolf Sif sig cannot be seen. I'm giving preference to a photo over WrestleMania. You've done good, WWE.



I know this isn't WWE, but the first 3way I can ever recall hearing about was the 3 Way Dance in ECW between Douglas, Sabu, and Terry Funk. I think it went to an hour draw. I'm gonna go and watch that one of these days. Maybe the Funker worked his magic and made it a classic.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I know this isn't WWE, but the first 3way I can ever recall hearing about was the 3 Way Dance in ECW between Douglas, Sabu, and Terry Funk. I think it went to an hour draw. I'm gonna go and watch that one of these days. Maybe the Funker worked his magic and made it a classic.


That match used to be considered a universal classic, but recently it has gotten the same treatment that the Bret/Shawn Ironman match has gotten.

And I preferred the Jericho/Punk submission trading at Mania 28 over the Austin/Rock one.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I know this isn't WWE, but the first 3way I can ever recall hearing about was the 3 Way Dance in ECW between Douglas, Sabu, and Terry Funk. I think it went to an hour draw. I'm gonna go and watch that one of these days. Maybe the Funker worked his magic and made it a classic.


Yeah I did think of some ECW ones too, but I'm sure that '97 one was the first one in WWF to use the now standard triple threat formula. 

There were some other three way matches in WWF in '96 on house shows, Goldust, Mero and someone else, but they were not the now standard triple threats.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

My god I love The Usos and Jack Swagger. And my god my feelings on Cesaro are greater than love.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cesaro vs Swagger at ER is gonna be out of this world :mark:


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

pre show match was pretty fun


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Loved that match, the crowd is so fucking awesome


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

REALLY, really fun tag match that was. Kudos to all involved.

Oh, and CESARO THE GAWD.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Man that Pre-Show match was so much fun. Definitely a great way to start things off.

Hogan fucking up his opening monologue :lmao


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

AUSTIN! HOGAN! ROCK!!! 

The three most over guys OF ALL TIME :mark: :mark:


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

What an awesome segment :mark: :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I just marked like a million times :mark:


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

That. Was. Amazing.

The promo for Bryan/HHH is unreal


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Fantastic opening segment. Loved how Rock respected the two and showed examples of why wrestlers like Cena and Bryan wouldn't have succeeded without Hogan and Austin. Hopefully the night continues to be this good!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

OMFG GOAT ENTRANCE ALERT


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

DAT ATMOSPHERE :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I know this isn't WWE, but the first 3way I can ever recall hearing about was the 3 Way Dance in ECW between Douglas, Sabu, and Terry Funk. I think it went to an hour draw. I'm gonna go and watch that one of these days. Maybe the Funker worked his magic and made it a classic.


Yeah, there were multiple in ECW before WWF did it. WCW had some too even if their rules tended to be more lucha threeway-ish.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Only caught the finishing run, but it looked great.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

great match

anyone else not liking the quick finish there, though?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

**** for Bryan/Hunter. I have to say, Hunter looked great, as did Bryan obviously. Hell of a match, great way to open the show, great selling by Bryan, great ruthlessness and viciousness from Da Game. BRYAN IS IN THE MAIN EVENT.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

****1/4 for that match, great opener, top 5 opener in mania history


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

****1/4

What an awesome way to start Mania. We're this close to experiencing the greatest moment in all of our lives.


----------



## Nuski (Apr 5, 2010)

**** maybe more if the ending wasn't so sudden. The armwork from HHH was sooo great.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Great match, HHH looked good for a guy who had not wrestled for nearly a year before this. Good work on the arm and the commentators told the story very well, especially JBL. Hate to say this but I have a feeling Bryan winning is only to make the fans happy as the WWE may believe that having Bryan win against HHH is enough for the fans to be pleased and the post-match attack is just an excuse to have Bryan lose in the main event. I mean if he is to lose, he wouldn't lose normally, he would have an injured body part to show his brave performance.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HHH delivering BIG at Wrestlemania. What a surprise.

On first watch, the second greatest opener in Wrestlemania history.

***** 1/4*


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Knee jerk reaction, but I'm throwing ****1/2 at Bryan/H right now. Overall pace was terrific. Trips control segment was great, and I :mark:ed for the chicken wing and tiger suplex. The Pedigree counter was awesome. I just loved it. All of it.

Awesome opening segment followed Bryan/H. 

Shield :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan/HHH- **** Great match, HHH's best match in years, probably since his match with Jeff Hardy at NM2008, and another great match for Bryan to add to his collection.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

There's just something that always clicks when Hunter wrestles small guys.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Sudden finish makes sense considering the storyline and nature of the match. Similar to Summerslam finish vs Cena.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao this match is hilarious. Greatest squash of all-time.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

*** for pre show tag team match
**** for Bryan/HHH

Shield match was sooo short, wanted to see more of Ambrose and Rollins


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Awesome WM so far.

Pre-Show ruled. The opening segment was megical.

HHH/Bryan was amazing. ****1/2-****3/4.

Loved the Shield's squash.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

CESARO!

I love this Mania.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

That Battle Royal was tons of fun, and CESARO!~ :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

CESARO :mark: DAT POWER SLAM :mark: 

:wall at this show so far


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

This WM is GOAT material


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

he bodyslammed him that easily

holy shit


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

** for the shield squash 

*** for the battle royal

great show so far


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

What a great way to pay tribute to Andre :lol


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

***
****
**
***1/4

for me so far


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Crowd singing He's Got the Whole World in His Hands is GOAT :lmao


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I for one am loving this match


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Same


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Really, Cena?


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

Yeah that was pretty good. Show's been highly enjoyable so far. Wonder how long they can keep up this pace.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

:ti at that result

I'm not sure on my thoughts of the match yet


----------



## Zig-Kick. (Jan 4, 2011)

All you had to do was let him win. you made him look credible as fuck, then he lost.
For Christ sake guys, learn to pull the damn trigger.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

These Wyatts are so damn good in PPV settings. Just look at this resume:

Rowan/Harper vs. Punk/Bryan (SvS): ******
Wyatt Family vs. Daniel Bryan (TLC): ****1/2*
Bray Wyatt vs. Daniel Bryan (Royal Rumble): *****1/4*
The Shield vs. Wyatt Family (Elimination Chamber): *****3/4*
John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt (Wrestlemania): ******


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

Wyatt facing Cena in his first Mania match is big enough as it is. He didn't have to win. Lets not forget last year Cena beat Rock in the main event. He'll be fine.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Big John at it again :cena4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Wyatt/Cena- **** MOTN so far. Fantastic! Two **** matches so far and Taker/Lesnar still to come! :mark:


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Hmm, only faces winning tonight?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm confident that the feud is gonna carry on into Extreme Rules, with Wyatt getting the victory. Afterwards he will feud with Bryan at Payback for the title. Wyatt's got a bright future ahead of him.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Can someone please explain to me why Cena won? He gets absolutely nothing by beating Bray, but Bray had everything to gain by beating Cena. I hope this feud continues to ER and Bray gets his win there. He certainly deserved it after a performance like that. What a fucking match, exceeded my expectations by a good bit.

***1/2 for 4Way Elimination Tag
**** for Bryan/Hunter
*** for the Shield/NAO Kane match
***1/2 for the Battle Royal
**** for Cena/Bray

GREAT Mania so far. I am gladly eating crow, this has been a blast to watch.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'll go **** for Cena/Wyatt, not as good as the opener but this has been one amazing show

TAKER/LESNAR NEXT :mark: 

Prediction: ****3/4


----------



## Nuski (Apr 5, 2010)

***3/4 for Wyatt/Cena


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

great matches so far but we need that GOAT match now


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

Been an awesome Mania so far. 

HHH/Bryan - ****1/4 (missed two minutes of the climax, going to assume they were good as well)

Cena/Wyatt - ***3/4


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

Shield/KaNAO gets **1/2 and the battle royal gets ***1/4 or so. Been an awesome show.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

****1/4 for Wyatt/Cena. This is one hell of a show


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Really hoping Taker/Brock picks up.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

This crowd needs to wake it's ass up this is fucking Brock vs Taker they should be losing their collective shit. Match has been "meh" so far but this silence is making it worse.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Honestly this match is being worked incorrectly. I'm confident that they will pick it up and deliver a classic, but last year, Undertaker had the liberty of working with CM Punk. As awesome as Lesnar is, he's not as good as Punk.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

If the match has been meh then you can't blame them for not being into it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Honestly this match is being worked incorrectly. I'm confident that they will pick it up and deliver a classic, but last year, Undertaker had the liberty of working with CM Punk. As awesome as Lesnar is, he's not as good as Punk.


BROCK/Taker from 2002 > Punk/Taker


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> BROCK/Taker from 2002 > Punk/Taker


Exactly. Brock/Taker NM 2002 shits all over Punk/Taker, and this is coming from a huge fan of that WM 29 match. They just didn't go about this match the right way, atleast from what I've seen so far. This should have been Brock decimating Taker with small hope spots throughout, then a molten finishing stretch with Brock eating the Tombstone.

And yes I can blame the crowd for not being into it, this is Brock vs Taker, they went crazy for the Shield/NAO match, they should be up for this. It's not BAD, it's definitely good, just not what I thought it was gonna be. Oh well, that's life. This is shaping up to be the best Mania in quite some time.

Edit- OH MY FUCKING GOD!


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

BIGGEST SWERVE EVER


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm fucking done


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Oh my God. And it couldn't be more underwhelming.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

DAFUQ just happened? :O


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Oh for the love of god....


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It is all up to Daniel Bryan to save the WWE. Match itself was barely even average. And to think that we could have had Cena/Taker...

CMON BRYAN!


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

So thats prob what "you wanna do it" meant at that UFC show.

Wow.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm not saying I'm for this. Quite the opposite. But I think it's 100% obvious what happened. Taker realized he was completely broken down, and that he didn't have more than this 1 match left in him. Taker has always been the ultimate professional. I can almost guaruntee he insisted on going out on his back.

I'm just stunned. I wish they had put on a ****1/2+ classic, then this would be a lot more palatable. Now all I can think is that I wish Taker had lost to Punk last year. That would have been a better way to go out.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Then why have the match with Lesnar and not someone legitimate like Cena..

That was the biggest swerve in mania history, we have all been shocked


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Then why have the match with Lesnar and not someone legitimate like Cena..
> 
> That was the biggest swerve in mania history, we have all been shocked


Because losing to Cena would have immediately turned Cena heel.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

This has got to be the most shocking and ridiculous thing I have ever seen.

Wtv happens next ( whatever Bryan does), it's just so .... meh... now


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Don't care that the match wasn't as good as I thought, it's all about the swerve. I think we've seen Taker's last match.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I'm still speechless.

NO ONE saw that coming.


----------



## FlashPhotographer (Mar 22, 2014)

That's some Russo sh** right there. Yeah, it was a swerve. Yes, everyone was shocked. But it meant nothing. What a waste.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Better than losing to Lesnar, who is my favorite wrestler ever but if you were going to give it to anyone you could do two things: 

1) give it to an established guy like Cena 

2) a future star like Wyatt or Reigns 

I am beyond pissed right now


----------



## Carlitowwe (Jun 15, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> Then why have the match with Lesnar and not someone legitimate like Cena..
> 
> That was the biggest swerve in mania history, we have all been shocked


Why?. Cena- doesnt deserve to beat him. If amything shawn Michaels deserved it more than any one. 



Wuestion is what will happen with sting with this undertaker losing the streak.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> And yes I can blame the crowd for not being into it, this is Brock vs Taker, they went crazy for the Shield/NAO match, they should be up for this. It's not BAD, it's definitely good, just not what I thought it was gonna be. Oh well, that's life. This is shaping up to be the best Mania in quite some time.


It's the wrestlers' job to service the audience, not the other way around. If they aren't putting out a performance that the crowd can get into then it's the performers' fault.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That's definitely Takers last match. Taker is just the ultimate pro, no matter than every fan wanted the Streak to continue forever, he insisted on going out like a pro, on his back, because 21 other times someone else had to lay down for him in order for the Streak to even be a thing. I just wish he had lost to a full timer, because it's wasted on Brock who only appears 3 times a year.

Oh well. I'm not gonna piss and moan, we were lucky to have the Streak while it lasted. Greatest thing in wrestling history.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

lol that totally killed the crowd.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

One of the worst Taker WM matches of all time. But it doesn't even matter. He went out the right way.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar. Did that just happened?!?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Still trying to compute what I saw. But I'm going with the idea that the greatest wrestling character of all time has just wrestled his last match.

And Taker probably made the call himself to end it. Just didn't think it'd be this soon. But the guy went longer than most thought he ever would.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Wow just wow


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I REALLY hope the crowd will still give Daniel Bryan his proper due. A damn shame that Mania will be defined by the end of the streak instead of the dawning of the Yes Era.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Crowd will still pump for Bryan. No worries about that.

Sure this Mania will be about the end of the Streak (it will still be about the new Yes Era should it happen too) but Bryan's has (hopefully) a nice title run full of moments ahead regardless.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Just so flat of a way to end it


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Guess this was the best Taker could offer. He couldn't pull off most of his moves really well.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I think that despite the YES movement, Taker should have closed the show, because I'm still in shock and its hard for anything to follow it.


----------



## TerryFoley (Feb 28, 2014)

Wow! And no, i prefer Taker losing to Brock instead of Cena.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

That Taker/Brock match was just bizarre, And for what? Why did that even happen. If they knew it was going to be Takers last match then why the tits give it to Lesnar? I was legit stunned by that result and not in a good way. The reactions of all the fans they showed were obviously what they wanted but I'm pretty sure those reactions were for the wrong reasons.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

SMITTY said:


> I think that despite the YES movement, Taker should have closed the show, because I'm still in shock and its hard for anything to follow it.


Without a doubt. That's part of my problem with it. They didn't do it the right way.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

If it closed the show over the world title match people might have figured something was up. Plus I doubt Taker would have wanted it to. I don't think Brock was the ideal person to break it but I also don't think he was the worst choice. Tbf I'm still more in shock than anything.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Looking forward to Cal's reaction tomorrow :lmao


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

I swear if Batista wins the next match I'm taking a break from wrestling for a while..

an era just fucking ended for nothing..absolutely nothing


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Crowd is so dead for this.

Not even Bryan is getting huge pops (when compares to his standard).


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

I can understand Taker wanting to be old school and lose on his way out but in such a shit match & to a part-timer who works limited dates and has basically lost to everyone since he's come back. Bizarre.

Come on D-Bry!


----------



## FlashPhotographer (Mar 22, 2014)

etrbaby said:


> I swear if Batista wins the next match I'm taking a break from wrestling for a while..
> 
> an era just fucking ended for nothing..absolutely nothing


he might as well at this point. it would only be fitting considering the end of the streak and cena overcoming the odds. 



DoubtGin said:


> Crowd is so dead for this.
> 
> Not even Bryan is getting huge pops (when compares to his standard).


yep, crowd is done.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I actually liked this show up until the Undertaker's entrance ended


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Daniel Bryan: the only man who could wake up a crowd after a Taker loss at Mania


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk pulling a Warrior/Austin would be perfect.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'll admit my heart is racing


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

That had me on the edge of my seat with those nearfalls. Good way to end.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Massive


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

FUCK YES :mark: 

This is why we watch wrestling!! I thought Dave had Orton at the end, beutiful


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Oh my god this is fucking magical. BRYAN FUCKING DANIELSON.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

From a quality standpoint, idk, but from a fan standpoint, I enjoyed watching this Mania live more than any other.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Am I the only one who thought that Orton was great in that match?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

In the end, WWE did the right thing, fuck yes. That match was 100 times better than I expected. Orton was great, Batista was good, and Bryan was fucking Bryan. What a great Mania. Final tally:

4 way Elimination Tag: ***1/2
Trips/Bryan: ****
Shield/NAO Kane : ***
Battle Royal: ***1/2
Cena/Bray: ****
Brock/Taker: ***1/2
Divas Match: Smoke break
Bryan/Batista/Orton: **** (this match literally had me on the edge of my seat the entire time)

Not a single bad match, 3 GREAT matches. Awesome, awesome, night.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Awesome way to end it all..still think if Taker/Brock didn't end the way it did, the crowd would have been 20x crazier


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Sorry not into it


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

STARZ

HHH/Bryan: ****1/4 
Shield/NAO: **1/2 
Battle royal: ***1/2 
Bray/Cena: ****
Taker/Lesnar: ***3/4 
Divas: DUD 
Bryan/Batista/Orton: ****

I love professional wrestling..


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm literally amazed at how well all of this was pulled off.

Everything clicked for me tonight. I loved this PPV.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Awesome mania as a whole.


----------



## Karma101 (Sep 7, 2012)

Nah triple threat had to go on last. You don't want the crowd leaving completely stunned and confused.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

My brother and I are in tears right now. Incredible moment.

Fatal Four Way Tag Match: *****
Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H: *****1/4*
The Shield vs. The Authority: ***1/2*
Battle Royal: *****
Bray Wyatt vs. John Cena: ******
Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar: *****
Divas Invitational: *LOLWTF*
Daniel Bryan vs. Batista vs. Randy Orton: *****1/4*

One of the best Manias ever.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah after seeing that I was wrong, that HAD to end the show!


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Crazy Pre Show Match
Insane Opener promo
Solid event with some decent-good-great matches. 

Nice night.

Cant wait for RAW


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The booking for Mania was perfect. Not one match felt out of place. The match times went the appropriate lengths and even the styles worked were best suited. All in all, this is the greatest Mania of the last 5 years and one of the GOAT imo. The streak being broken didn't bother me much tbh. Just another reason why we'll be looking back on this Mania as one of the best.


----------



## TakersStreak22 (Apr 4, 2014)

Where the fuck is sting?


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

HHH/Bryan - ****1/4

Shield vs. Authority - **1/2

Battle Royal - ***

Wyatt vs. Cena - ****

Brock vs. Taker - ***

Diva's - Did not watch.

Main Event - ****

Overall, just a super solid show. EVERYTHING was at least good. Taker/Brock was terribly underwhelming though, I was expecting a 50 y/o Taker to pull another ***** classic out of his ass, guess that was unrealistic in hindsight. He must've physically hit a wall this year, looked like he rolled an ankle or landed on his bad hip wrong at some point which can't help. It was a 'solid' match at least. 

Don't think I can give this Mania a top-3 GOAT nod since it lacked a true classic, but for all the memories and UNPREDICTABILITY, I'd have to go at least top-6 or so.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Who gives a rats ass about sting. Hes probably never coming and thank god


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

SO FUCKING HAPPY RIGHT NOW :yes :yes :yes

I thought the crowd would not give Bryan a big ovation due to the Taker loss, but he woke them up and it was great. An awesome, heroic performance from Daniel Bryan and it was a nice end to a really fun and entertaining Wrestlemania. I think this is the greatest Wrestlemania since XXIV. Hunter/Bryan was great, so far my MOTY, with Bryan selling the shoulder very well and it told a great story to this feud. Shield/NAO and Kane was a fun squash. The Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal was fun, with Kofi doing his usual battle royal spot and Cesaro just being awesome. The Taker/Lesnar match was pretty disappointing by Streak match standards but the finish is what makes this match the most talked about for a long while. Just pure and genuine SHOCK. I was speechless for 5 minutes. I paid no attention to the Divas match, but it's nice to see AJ win. The triple threat match was really good as it was a culmination to this 8 month storyline with bryan pulling a great underdog performance. I loved that he made Batista tap out a la Chris Benoit, and the crowd's reaction to him winning was awesome. It was a great Wrestlemenia.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I still feel awfully strange with Taker losing, and the arena just seemed like it didn't recover fully, even with the great reaction for Bryan at the end. Bryan's reaction at the beginning of the show wasn't matched, in my opinion. 

The main event was just okay, in terms of quality. The Batista Bomb into the reverse RKO spot through the table was pretty cool. I was certain Orton won after hitting the RKO on Batista. I was also certain that Dave was winning after he threw Bryan out after the running knee. 

I'm going with Bryan/Hunter as match of the night, with not really any competition. The battle royal was fun, and Cesaro having his Hogan/Andre moment was great. Hope they follow through with him in the long term. I enjoyed the Shield match for what it was, being a giant squash. Had high hopes for the show after the first segment/two matches, but the rest didn't keep that pace. 

Such an incredible moment to end Mania with, but I still can't wrap my mind around the fact that we've likely seen the last of Taker.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Fatal Four Way Tag Match: *****
Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H: *****1/4*
The Shield vs. The Authority: ****
Battle Royal: *****
Bray Wyatt vs. John Cena: ******
Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar: ***3/4*
Divas Invitational: ****
Daniel Bryan vs. Batista vs. Randy Orton: ****3/4*

Good show


----------



## TakersStreak22 (Apr 4, 2014)

SMITTY said:


> Who gives a rats ass about sting. Hes probably never coming and thank god


Are You fucking blind there is a big fucking thread on here about him ?? So apparently people do care fucking Idiot lol


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm listening to the LAW right now and they're talking about Taker losing being a big mistake and that it should have been some young guy blah blah blah. I love how when one IWC member says something, the rest follow like mindless sheep. I've been hearing people say that shit since I dunno, since I've been on this site.

Oh, now they're questioning if there's more to the story. Perhaps, good old Dave Melzter has some news on the backstage happenings as to why Taker did the 1-2-3.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

I don't get the interest with Sting. He hasn't been worth seeing for a long time. Especially when he wrestles in his t-shirt and hasn't been remotely interesting or good in years.

STARZ

Pre Show - ***1/4
Bryan/Hunter - ****1/4
Shield squash - **3/4 (lot of fun tho)
Battle Royal - ***
Cena/Wyatt - ****
Taker/Lesnar - ***
Divas - lol
Triple Threat - ****

Mad consistent show, one people won't forget for a long time I'd bet.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H: *****1/2*
The Shield vs. The Authority: ****1/4*
Battle Royal: ****
Bray Wyatt vs. John Cena: ******
Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar: ***~ Saved by ending*
Divas Invitational: ****
Daniel Bryan vs. Batista vs. Randy Orton: *****1/2*


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Taker losing doesn't sit well with me. However, I loved the last match. Bryan getting the win in the end was fantastic, and match itself was exciting, and pretty good, IMO.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

1. Tag team title match - ***1/4
2. Triple H vs Daniel Bryan - ****1/4
3. Shield vs Kane/NAO - **1/2
4. Battle Royal - ***
5. John Cena vs Bray Wyatt - ****
6. Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar - ***1/4
7. Divas title match - **3/4
8. Daniel Bryan vs Batista vs Orton (WWE title) - ****1/2


That main event had me on the edge of my chair. One of the greatest moments ever.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

DoubtGin said:


> Am I the only one who thought that Orton was great in that match?


No, I respect him even more after wrestling without losing a step despite the horrible bump his back took against the monitor.

------------------

I haven't been a wrestling fan for that many years, but this was the best experience out of every night I've stayed up to watch a show. Absolutely amazing and I really have nothing to complain about. Hooked my PC to the TV with a HDMI and found a quality stream. No forum bullshit or distractions - just four hours of absolute FUN. 

Brock ending the streak brought the same reaction out of me as it did everyone in the audience but I can get over it because I know Taker himself requested it and as sad as it is, an amazing career looks to have seen its end. :sad: Besides, he could've lost to Punk last year and I would've quit watching forever.

And the main event? Absolutely wonderful. Great nearfalls, great job by all three and the finish, believe it or not, made me mark the fuck out! :mark:

THE THREE GOATs :rock :austin :hogan2 - ★★★★★

HHH vs Bryan - ★★★★
Shield vs NAO/Kane - ★★ (Total squash but fun)
Battle Royal - ★★★½ (CESARO ftw. That body slam was incredible)
Wyatt vs Cena - ★★★¾ (If Wyatt continues going at this rate, he'll win me over very soon)
Brock vs Taker - ★★★¾
Divas shit - N/A (Piss break time)
Bryan vs Orton vs Batista - ★★★★ (Mini-mark out moment to the "Burn in My Light" intro, excellent performance by Rev Theory, nice tribute to Benoit with the identical finish, great nearfalls and the crowd was a lot more alive than you would've expected following Taker's streak ending. I LOVED IT!)

This is probably the best Wrestlemania since 17 or 19. Definitely on par with 24 and above anything else in a decade.


----------



## TakersStreak22 (Apr 4, 2014)

Shepard said:


> I don't get the interest with Sting. He hasn't been worth seeing for a long time. Especially when he wrestles in his t-shirt
> 
> STARZ
> 
> ...



Same shit could be said about an another Austin match but fact is people still wanna see it just cause you don't get it other people wanted to see it


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

What I meant was that I dont care and I think your probably the only one who cares about him at this point so plz go back to the thread where all you idiots drool over a match that would never happen and would be shit if it did.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

Alright, less of the calling people idiots.



> Same shit could be said about an another Austin match but fact is people still wanna see it just cause you don't get it other people wanted to see it


Austin hasn't spent the last few years being garbage in another company. But hey if that's what you want then power to you. Doesn't bother me.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm really surprised at that the love that Cena/Wyatt is getting here. I'll do stars tomorrow when I re-watch everything. But what do you guys think about the streak being broken? The way I look at it, if this is Taker's last match then there's no better way to go out. When we look back on this a few years from now, it'll be Big Name vs Big Name and the streak was broken. 

I don't support the argument that it should have been some young guy. Let's be honest, at first the guy would be the shit. Yeah, he beat Taker. But there's only so long you go on with that. I mean, how often do we talk about Orton being the youngest WHC anymore? There's only so long you can run with one major accomplishment. The Miz beat John Cena in the main event of a Wrestlemania.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Four Way Tag - ***
Bryan/Trips - ****1/4
Shield/Corp - **1/2 (So much fun though)
Battle Royal - ***1/4 (Real fun)
Cena/Wyatt - ****
Taker/Lesnar - ***3/4
Divas - *
Bryan/Orton/Batista - ****1/2

Emotional roller coaster of a show.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

TakersStreak22 said:


> Are You fucking blind there is a big fucking thread on here about him ?? So apparently people do care fucking Idiot lol


Sting should come in and put over Bad News Barrett.

Star Ratings:

HHH/Bryan- ****
Shield/Authority- Fun squash.
Battle Royal- ***
Cena/Wyatt- ****
Lesnar/Taker- ***
Divas- N/A
Orton/Bryan/Batista- ****1/4

This was a fantastic show. I think it's a 17 on the CAL SCALE and that's with just five matches rated. Just tremendous.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the Wyatt/Cena match was really good. (Y)

Wyatt's entrance was PIMP.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm not saying I'm for this. Quite the opposite. But I think it's 100% obvious what happened. Taker realized he was completely broken down, and that he didn't have more than this 1 match left in him. Taker has always been the ultimate professional. I can almost guaruntee he insisted on going out on his back.
> 
> I'm just stunned. I wish they had put on a ****1/2+ classic, then this would be a lot more palatable. Now all I can think is that I wish Taker had lost to Punk last year. That would have been a better way to go out.


I agree with this aside from losing to Punk (LOfuckignL)



SMITTY said:


> Then why have the match with Lesnar and not someone legitimate like Cena..
> 
> That was the biggest swerve in mania history, we have all been shocked


I feel like maybe during training with Brock he realized that he couldn't do it anymore and the match was already locked in.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Also, the atmosphere tonight was fantastic.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Alright, sorry about the idiot talk, but I just think we should focus on BRYAN and not some washup(who I thought was meh in the first place). 

Best mania since 19 imo, just because of the ENERGY. I look forward to rewatching it tomorrow


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Let's do THIS!~

Pre-Show - ***1/4
Hunter/Bryan - ****1/2-****3/4
Battle Royal - ***1/2
Cena/Wyatt - ****1/4
Taker/Lesnar - ***1/4 (Need a rewatch desperately, didn't buy Lesnar's offense at all because it's the streak and everything which took me out of the match)
Batista/Bryan/Orton - ****1/4. OMG, everything was clicked so beautifully. The fact they made the crowd care about the show again says everything.

It's 6:00 am here and I want to watch the show all over again. Amazing night of wrestling. The booking was tremendous. GOAT WM.

EDIT: And I forgot about the opening segment. Yet another awesome moment. I'm in love with this show and WWE atm. 

Now the only thing I want in this world is Lesnar/Bryan program. RAW tomorrow is going to be so good.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

TakersStreak22 said:


> Same shit could be said about an another Austin match but fact is people still wanna see it just cause you don't get it other people wanted to see it


1. Sting has never been on Austin's level.

2. Sting was never that big of a draw.

3. Sting has been gone from the mainsteam's eye for nearly a decade and a half. A lot of the current fans probably won't know who he is and may not care even with good video packages.



> Sharkboy22
> 
> I don't support the argument that it should have been some young guy. Let's be honest, at first the guy would be the shit. Yeah, he beat Taker. But there's only so long you go on with that. I mean, how often do we talk about Orton being the youngest WHC anymore? There's only so long you can run with one major accomplishment. The Miz beat John Cena in the main event of a Wrestlemania.


The idea is if you have to have the Undertaker lose then it would be best to do so to someone that would get the most of it, i.e. a "young guy". I'm not sure if having a young guy beat the streak instead of Lesnar would have made the moment go down easier with most fans, though.


----------



## TakersStreak22 (Apr 4, 2014)

Shepard said:


> Alright, less of the calling people idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> Austin hasn't spent the last few years being garbage in another company. But hey if that's what you want then power to you. Doesn't bother me.


No he just been doing bad movies and a podcast ummm imagine the ring rust and stamina issues with him but that's acceptable tho because it's Austin right ??? Gtfo


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

That Brock win was the best moment in wrestling history. Seriously. Can't recall a time when I've ever been as shocked by something happening in wrestling.

They built it beautifully too, with Taker kicking out of those other F5's. I was rolling my eyes like "here we go again" and then didn't even realize that he just pinned him. It was so unexpected that I thought that maybe I had misheard the three count. :lmao Incredible. So I guess the build was shitty on purpose. Apologies, WWE.

Much respect to Taker for going out in an unexpected way. I'm wondering if his injuries that were piling up were more severe than we thought, so he decided now was the time to bow out. Or maybe this was always his plan. People scoffed at the dirt sheet reports that Taker wanted Brock to break the streak back in '10. Now I believe them to be the truth.

That was one of the biggest mark out moments ever in wrestling for me, right after I picked my jaw up off the ground.

Totally made up for the Cena/Wyatt ending. If Wyatt was going to lose, they should have at least had Wyatt's message be somewhat victorious. Instead it was 100% about Cena's legacy winning out, which was really not needed. Except to make kids happy, but what it does for Cena is much less than what a Wyatt win or even a halfway victory as far as message is concerned, would have done for Wyatt.

No fucking need for Cena to kick out of the Sister Abagail. No need.

Thank God Brock came through and saved that shit.

I figured Wyatt would lose, though, due to the fact that they had three smark favorites go over first (Bryan, Shield, & Cesaro).

Why the hell was the Shield wasted on that short, nothing match, btw?!?! Shame that they wasted four, bright, young, talents tonight (Shield & Wyatt). At least they built Cesaro, Bryan, and Lesnar (obviously he's not young, but he's a youngin' compared to Taker).


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> This is probably the best Wrestlemania since 17 or 19. Definitely on par with 24 and above anything else in a decade.


Not sure about it being on par or better than 24 for me since WM 24 is my GOAT WM. Still the best damn Mania since WM 24. I thought it was pretty enjoyable top-down. No match disappointed. The Shield match was short but it had to be considering what it followed. But it was really fun and made all members look badass! I don't think there was anywhere else to put it. Heck, I don't think there was any other way to book this show than the way the WWE did. This was ***** booking.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

LOL telling a SMOD to GTFO, you know he can ban you right?

Just looked at my ratings and on the CAL scale its a 24, pretty fucking awesome stuff.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

:lmao at all the butthurt marks in the official Mania discussion thread because Taker lost. How dare the WWE work me! I have the internet!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

At this very moment, my top 5 Manias would go:

1. 24
2. 30
3. 19
4. 22
5. 17

imo

I fucking loved this show but I need to rewatch before I can put it above 24.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Four Way Tag ***1/2
HHH/Bryan *****
Shield/OldfucksandKane **1/4
Battle Royal ***1/4
Wyatt/Cena ****1/2
Lesnar/Taker ***
Diva Match **1/4
Orton/Batista/Bryan ****3/4

Fantastic Wrestlemania, turned out much better than I had originally expected. It was still basically a three match show, but HHH/Bryan, Wyatt/Cena and Orton/Batista/Bryan were simply so outstanding that it just brought up the quality of the show immensely. All three matches are match of the year candidates. And the rest of the card wasn't even too bad either.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Orton/Bryan/Batista was just fantastic. The match was pure fun throughout, and kudos for Orton and Batista for the timing on their kick-outs towards the end. They didn't partake in the bullshit where someone starts their kick-out right as the referee's hand hits the mat for a second time. They both waited until almost the very last millisecond.


----------



## TakersStreak22 (Apr 4, 2014)

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> 1. Sting has never been on Austin's level.
> 
> 2. Sting was never that big of a draw.
> 
> 3. Sting has been gone from the mainsteam's eye for nearly a decade and a half. A lot of the current fans probably won't know who he is and may not care even with good video packages.



Stop that shit right now ! Don't even damn near every pro wrestling fan either knows who he is or has heard of him and if not the wwe would get them hip to him real quick 
What I'm sayin is if sting is washed up as y'all say so is Austin Idc who was a bigger draw Austin has wrestled in how long but like I said he gets a pass tho? His body is in worse condition then stings but he gets a pass tho right ??? Fuck that


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

NEW top 5 manias 

1.19
2.30
3.24
4.17
5.22

I knew this show would be special, even though I thought tista was winning I still thought the matches would be good

Dude can you please go? Your ruining this thread atm


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I had to miss the first two hours because of work, so here's my thoughts on the top two matches:

*Taker vs. Lesnar* - Honestly I was really disappointed by this. It suffered from many of the same things that the HHH vs. Lesnar series. A lot of repetitiveness and overall slowness. Far too predictable in many areas (outside of the actual finish of course) but the pure POWER that Lesnar showed in a couple of those F5s were just incredible. I was flat out shocked at the finish like everyone else, but outside of that it really wasn't that great. Maybe ***? Maybe not even. Time to hang up the boots, Taker.

*Bryan vs. Batista vs. Orton *- Mother of god what a war! I was pleasantly surprised by how this turned out. Bryan looked like a warrior, Orton looked like the Viper of old, and Batista didn't stink the joint up too much. Announce table spot was fucking nuts and the last few minutes were a total thrill ride. Really good job of not letting us forget that their were two other guys in the match.  Easy ***** *for that one.

I'll watch everything else sometime this week, but damn what a draining last two hours!


----------



## Jof (Nov 29, 2012)

Pre-Show Tag - ***1/2
Triple H vs Daniel Bryan - ****3/4
Andre Battle Royal - ***1/2
Cena vs Wyatt - ****1/4
Taker vs Lesnar - *** (may even go down on rewatch)
Divas match - DUD
Batista/Bryan/Orton - ****

Incredible event and well deserved finish.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

TakersStreak22 said:


> Stop that shit right now ! Don't even damn near every pro wrestling fan either knows who he is or has heard of him and if not the wwe would get them hip to him real quick
> What I'm sayin is if sting is washed up as y'all say so is Austin Idc who was a bigger draw Austin has wrestled in how long but like I said he gets a pass tho? His body is in worse condition then stings but he gets a pass tho right ??? Fuck that


You're just mad that you're not going to get Taker/Sting at WM 31. Chill, breh.

Austin was always a better worker than Sting, anyway. Both are (probably) washed, but Austin hasn't wrestled in so long that he might actually be able to put on something watchable, if only because his body isn't as beat up. He did say a couple of years ago that he could go full-time again if he wanted to (and he had no reason to lie).


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Top 5 Manias:

1. 24
2. 22
3. 30
4. 19
5. 17?


----------



## Jof (Nov 29, 2012)

Oh, this one is definitely better than WM 24. Its not even debatable imo.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

23.5 on the Cal...


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

HHH/Bryan was really good
Shield/Authority was OK
Wyatt/Cena was good
The last few mins of the Battle Royal was good (Kofi's save,Cesaro's win :shocked
Takes/Lesnar was OK (wasn't into the match at all, nothing convinced me Taker was losing.)
Triple Treat was great, props to Orton/Batista.
Thought they'd stink up the place.

Taker losing :faint:
Bryan winning :yes

Raw's gonna be crazy

I don't care to see Sting/Taker:
1. The streak is done
2. Sting has been crap for years now.
3. Don't know if I could sit through another Taker match.
My shock at Taker's loss may be on par with my disappointment in Taker/Lesnar.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm still feeling the effects of what I just witnessed. Need to rewatch the big matches again tomorrow.

But now I need some serious sleep.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That delivered more than I ever imagined.


----------



## TakersStreak22 (Apr 4, 2014)

Regular-Ass Goon said:


> You're just mad that you're not going to get Taker/Sting at WM 31. Chill, breh.
> 
> Austin was always a better worker than Sting, anyway. Both are (probably) washed, but Austin hasn't wrestled in so long that he might actually be able to put on something watchable, if only because his body isn't as beat up. He did say a couple of years ago that he could go full-time again if he wanted to (and he had no reason to lie).


Im not mad the streak ended and I'm not mad about the chance of it not happening bra I'm disappointed because if the circumstance hell yea !! because even if they do have it won't be the same but y'all sound like a bunch of hypocrites with this whole sting Austin thing trying to justify one and downplay the other and it's pointless your telling me Austin gets the nod but sting doesn't is fucking dumb that's all I'm saying man all this Austin's the better worker crap is bs to me man you cannot tell me Austin's body is in better condition then stings lol no fucking way lol


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Fucking awesome show tonight. Can't really put things in stars perspective right now. Still trying to process everything I just watched tonight. WM XXX delivered big time.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

TakersStreak22 said:


> Im not mad the streak ended and I'm not mad about the chance of it not happening bra I'm disappointed because if the circumstance hell yea !! because even if they do have it won't be the same but y'all sound like a bunch of hypocrites with this whole sting Austin thing trying to justify one and downplay the other and it's pointless your telling me Austin gets the nod but sting doesn't is fucking dumb that's all I'm saying man all this Austin's the better worker crap is bs to me man you cannot tell me Austin's body is in better condition then stings lol no fucking way lol


Austin hasn't wrestled in over a decade. On the other hand, Sting has been grappling at a soundstage in an amusement park since 2006. Austin wouldn't be Daniel Bryan if he had another match, but it's entirely plausible to believe that his body is in better shape than Sting's at this point, and could therefore put on a better match.

Austin wouldn't say that he could go "full-time if [he] wanted to" if it wasn't true.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

TakersStreak22 said:


> Im not mad the streak ended and I'm not mad about the chance of it not happening bra I'm disappointed because if the circumstance hell yea !! because even if they do have it won't be the same but y'all sound like a bunch of hypocrites with this whole sting Austin thing trying to justify one and downplay the other and it's pointless your telling me Austin gets the nod but sting doesn't is fucking dumb that's all I'm saying man all this Austin's the better worker crap is bs to me man you cannot tell me Austin's body is in better condition then stings lol no fucking way lol


Don't worry about it. Everyone thought Lesnar/Taker would be great, and it really wasn't, IMO (except for the ending). You never can predict, so don't get caught up in what other people are gonna think. Nobody's right. It's all a matter of opinion.

In my excitement over Lesnar I didn't even think about the ramifications of a Sting match. He's the one guy where I think that the streak wouldn't matter for, so they could still do it. I get the impression that the Undertaker is retiring, though. Money could, of course, change things.


ETA: Watching the Divas match now, and this Nikki/Brie face off is so atrocious. It's strange, because I actually think that Nikki has a lot of charisma on the Total Divas show (people hate her, but people like her make the show, IMO. It'd be a total bore if everyone was like Brie), but on the WWE, her personality is just sucked dry. She can't act for shit either.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd like to add that the crowd waving and singing "He's got the whole world in his hands" during Cena/Bray is so damn awesome.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Taker/Sting would be horrendous at this stage, especially now that we know that Undertaker's age has finally caught up to him. Yeah, it would be cool during the buildup and the entrances, but the novelty would wear off a few minutes after the bell rings. 

The only bad thing about Undertaker losing is that now we'll never get Taker/Cena for the STREAK~!


----------



## TakersStreak22 (Apr 4, 2014)

Regular-Ass Goon said:


> Austin hasn't wrestled in over a decade. On the other hand, Sting has been grappling at a soundstage in an amusement park since 2006. Austin wouldn't be Daniel Bryan if he had another match, but it's entirely plausible to believe that his body is in better shape than Sting's at this point, and could therefore put on a better match.
> 
> Austin wouldn't say that he could go "full-time if [he] wanted to" if it wasn't true.


Jordan says he can still go today don't mean he can't man ! His body is beat the hell up don't get me confused thinkin I dislike Austin or some shit because Austin is my guy but I was of he few that wanted to see sting in the wwe I guess a full year of training a preperation I don't see why sting couldn't deliver a match ?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Just got home from work. 

*HOLY SHIT* @ the results.


----------



## TakersStreak22 (Apr 4, 2014)

Regular-Ass Goon said:


> Taker/Sting would be horrendous at this stage, especially now that we know that Undertaker's age has finally caught up to him. Yeah, it would be cool during the buildup and the entrances, but the novelty would wear off a few minutes after the bell rings.
> 
> The only bad thing about Undertaker losing is that now we'll never get Taker/Cena for the STREAK~!


They Said the same shit about taker hbk it was way to late that shit delivered matter fact said the same thing about tic and hnk but it still delivered lol all I'm trying to say is hold your fuckin judgements until you see the fuckin match lol


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Bryan vs HHH and The Triple threat were both four and a half stars out of 5. Bryan really made himself a star tonight

Lesnar and Taker wasn't great. Apart from the Streak ending I have a feeling many will overrate this in months and years to come.

Cena/Wyatt was good, Battle royale was fine, the shield was a squash match, the Diva's match was what it was. The four way was good too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Fucking BROCK :mark:

Finally makes up for loss to Cena.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

TakersStreak22 said:


> They Said the same shit about taker hbk it was way to late that shit delivered matter fact said the same thing about tic and hnk but it still delivered lol all I'm trying to say is hold your fuckin judgements until you see the fuckin match lol


Who said that about Shawn Michaels and Undertaker back in 2009? As I recall, a LOT of people were clamoring for it. Plus, age hadn't caught up to Undertaker and Shawn at that stage. We know that Sting is washed-up, and, if his performance (and losing) tonight was any indication, Undertaker has finally lost the battle with Father Time. Sting/Taker would be a train wreck. It could have worked about five years ago, but Sting decided to wrestle at Universal Studios.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

LOVED this Mania. Loved it.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Regular-Ass Goon said:


> Who said that about Shawn Michaels and Undertaker back in 2009? As I recall, a LOT of people were clamoring for it. Plus, age hadn't caught up to Undertaker and Shawn at that stage. We know that Sting is washed-up, and, if his performance (and losing) tonight was any indication, Undertaker has finally lost the battle with Father Time. Sting/Taker would be a train wreck. It could have worked about five years ago, but Sting decided to wrestle at Universal Studios.


Seriously, Sting was washed up in 2009 when he had what many thought was his retirement match.
Hell I was a fan of his when he returned to wrestling but he should've been done before 2009.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watching that main event may have FINALLY brought me back to my old self when it comes to my love for wrestling. It's been a long ass time since I've been so invested that much into one match. Honestly hasn't been that way since Summerslam last year. What a doozy. I feel like watching so much shit from the network now.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Clique said:


> Just got home from work.
> 
> *HOLY SHIT* @ the results.


You'll be holy shitting (?) even more when you watch the matches.

I'm just going to say this now...my body wasn't ready for what we were given. I was not expecting a Wrestlemania that had only two promising matches in my book to turn out this incredible.

And you have to give WWE a shit load of credit for this. Two months before Mania and they were still scrambling and were trying to figure out how they were going to book this thing. They did a tremendous job building a great card and did an outstanding job with the build up to the matches (apart from the clusterfuck that was Taker/Lesnar). I think it's safe to say that no one here on this board expected this Mania to be so great. 

Hell I even said before it wasn't going to be a top 5 all time Mania. Thankfully I was horribly wrong. This Mania is number 3 in my book right now behind 19 and 17.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

bme said:


> Seriously, Sting was washed up in 2009 when he had what many thought was his retirement match.
> Hell I was a fan of his when he returned to wrestling but he should've been done before 2009.


Sting should have never went back to TNA. He should have went to WWE and had one final run before losing to the Undertaker in his final match, which, still could have been p. good since Undertaker would have still been great in the ring. Instead, he went back to TNA and had an angle where he was followed and video-taped by Alex Shelley.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Well, if #BadNewsBarrett could predict the streak ending, he's probably right as well that a bunch of people are gonna lose their jobs tomorrow due to their kids keeping them up crying. :lol

... but on a serious note... wow, I still can't even... I don't think I've fully been able to process what the fuck just happened.

As for star ratings:

Pre-Show Tag - Didn't get to watch
Triple H vs Daniel Bryan - ****
Andre Battle Royal - ***
Cena vs Wyatt - **** (MOTN)
Taker vs Lesnar - ***
Divas match - DUD
Batista/Bryan/Orton - ***1/2

A pair of **** matches, although the worst streak match in years to top off the worst build for a streak match in years... but damn, I can't give it an accurate rating, not with it being Taker's last match. Truth is I'd probably put it in the **ish range had Taker actually won, maybe even lower (what's with Lesnar and having terrible Wrestlemania matches?), but I can't bring myself to give Taker's last match anything less than ***... plus there are some good points to the match, which I'll go over after I let this all sink in. 

Kudos to Bray Wyatt for having his third MOTN in a row, the man isn't a great in-ring worker by any means on a consistent basis, but when push comes to shove, he delivers, no doubt about that.

Edit: I don't know if I'd call it a top 5 Mania of all time... possibly though. I'd definitely put WM17, WM19, and WM24 above it right off the bat. WM26 and WM28 maybe as well... WM21 deserves props as well for their amazing undercard. It's up there though and should go down in history as the biggest. Taker's legendary streak comes to an end, we got a segment with the three biggest superstars of all time, and Bryan finally beat HHH and got to the top of the mountain once again.


----------



## TakersStreak22 (Apr 4, 2014)

Regular-Ass Goon said:


> Who said that about Shawn Michaels and Undertaker back in 2009? As I recall, a LOT of people were clamoring for it. Plus, age hadn't caught up to Undertaker and Shawn at that stage. We know that Sting is washed-up, and, if his performance (and losing) tonight was any indication, Undertaker has finally lost the battle with Father Time. Sting/Taker would be a train wreck. It could have worked about five years ago, but Sting decided to wrestle at Universal Studios.



Bra go look back at what some of the people were saying man it's the go find it it's frustrating taker does need to hang it up but trying to tell me a sting match would be bad holds no weight with me I get it's your opinion but u don't know shit till u see it after that say what ever u want because if they pull it off u come off looking fuckin foolish but I can say the same if the shit does suck but what my trying to say is time will tell


----------



## ABrown (Jan 30, 2007)

Dudes are REALLY overrating this show in here. Top 5? and some even have it 2nd and 3rd? Off the top of my head 17, 19, 20, 21, 22, and 26 are better than tonight

The tag title match, Rock/Hogan/SCSA segment, Trips/DB, and the ME were great. The rest were solid to shit.



#BadNewsSanta said:


> Well, if #BadNewsBarrett could predict the streak ending, he's probably right as well that a bunch of people are gonna lose their jobs tomorrow due to their kids keeping them up crying. :lol
> 
> ... but on a serious note... wow, I still can't even... I don't think I've fully been able to process what the fuck just happened.
> 
> ...


Bray/Cena MOTN? Hell no. match of the night was Trips/Bryan with the ME being second, and the TT match third. Cena/Bray was terrible until the last 7-10 minutes, and the ending sucked.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I felt that the Triple Threat ME was the MOTN, personally. Was far more into it than Bryan/HHH.


----------



## Jof (Nov 29, 2012)

Yes opener was the best of the night. Cena/Wyatt was all Wyatt. Cena's performnace was rather sub-par compared to his matches with Punk, Bryan etc...


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ABrown said:


> Bray/Cena MOTN? Hell no. match of the night was Trips/Bryan with the ME being second, and the TT match third. Cena/Bray was terrible until the last 7-10 minutes, and the ending sucked.


Disagree, Bray/Cena was extremely well done, playing into the story they had been laid out over the last several weeks. Wyatt was just out of this world with his character portrayal during the match, and Cena did pretty well too. TBH, I felt more hate between these two than I did Bryan and HHH.

My big issue with Bryan/HHH is just that... it didn't really feel like they hated each other. They were in first gear for most of the match, as usual with HHH matches, although Bryan selling like a champ and rising to the occasion balanced that out. Ending was pretty sub-par as well, although it's nice to see they protected Bryan's finisher. So all around, while it was an awesome match and as I said, HHH's best match in years, it's not some ****1/2 classic or anything like that imo. They delivered exactly as I expected them to, and I'm happy Bryan went over. Ultimately the hate displayed in Bray/Cena combined with Wyatt's performance brings it above Bryan/HHH. Only thing I really liked about Bryan/HHH more is the right guy won... although I'm not too pissed Bray lost, as long as they head in the right direction with him from here on out. 

I do need to re-watch the triple threat again though... my mind was still stuck on Taker losing, for most of that match.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Just got back live from the dome.

Awesome show. 


BUT WTF TAKER LOSES?

Legit refused to believe until Lesnar's music came on


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

The main event had me on the edge of my seat more then any other match on the card. There were at least 3-4 moments where I legit thought the match would be over.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

One thing we do need to make note of is the performance of both Orton and Batista. Granted, what made the main event a classic was mainly Daniel Bryan's heroics, but Orton and as much as it pains me to say this, Batista were very good. It's even more significant because Orton and Batista both had disappointing Wrestlemania main events in the one time that each of them had the main event spot. After all these years though, both of them finally righted a huge wrong in their careers.

Not sure where to rank this Mania, but it's definitely deserving of being in the same company as 17, 19, and 24. I haven't seen either of those shows in full in years. It probably isn't better than all of those shows, but wow. I'm on an emotional high.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Jof said:


> Oh, this one is definitely better than WM 24. Its not even debatable imo.


Edge/Taker, Flair/HBK, MITB, JBL/Finlay, Orton/HHH/Cena and even Batista/Umaga were all good to great matches. I still think this Wrestlemania was better, but not by that much.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Top WM ? IMO ?
Lmao hell no the only recent WM i'd put below this one is WM27
Major disappointments were Wyatt/Cena Taker/Lesnar.



Regular-Ass Goon said:


> Sting should have never went back to T
> 
> NA. He should have went to WWE and had one final run before losing to the Undertaker in his final match, which, still could have been p. good since Undertaker would have still been great in the ring. Instead, he went back to TNA and had an angle where he was followed and video-taped by Alex Shelley.


It would've been the best thing for him. Looking back he shouldn't have made a full time return.

I find it crazy that he could possibly come to WWE for anything more than one match, a HOF induction and DVD.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Wrestlemania has no meaning now that Undertaker's streak is over. As far as I'm concerned, The Undertaker WAS Wrestlemania.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

It amazes me how much Take deteriorated in one year. Performance wise, he wasn't good at all, and while last year against Punk might not have been his best individual performance (despite how amazing the match was), he still looked great out there and on point. This year he was sloppy, sluggish, and looked out of it half the time.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

While Taker losing does suck, because in most cases prior to this year he gave you the best match on the card damn near every time, it's also somewhat of a blessing in disguise because it opens up 30-45 minutes of Wrestlemania for someone ELSE to make their name on the big stage. It's not gonna be the same without the sound of the gong going off and the long ass walk down the ramp, but it opens up things for the future. Next year we could have guys like Cesaro, Wyatt, Reigns, Rollins, or even Cody Rhodes in higher profile matches because of this. It's always a concern as to how you're gonna fit all your top guys into Mania, but now with Taker assumably done for at age 49, it makes things a little bit easier. Now if Sting gets into one of these higher profile matches... well then what the fuck. 

And I must agree with what funnyfaces said above. Orton was pretty great himself in the main event.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Usos (c) vs. Real Americans vs. Los Matadores vs. RybAxel - ***3/4*
Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H - *****1/4*
The Shield vs. The Authority - ***
Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal - ****
John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt - ****1/2*
The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar - ***1/2*
Divas Title Invitational - didn't watch
Daniel Bryan vs. Batista vs. Randy Orton (c) - ****1/4*

So bittersweet about the night. The streak ends but Bryan gets his big moment and the chase finally ends. Just weird. The Undertaker's performance wasn't good at all. Something happened...age caught up to him, the injuries did, or all of it did. He's probably officially done.

I'm guessing Lesnar has to work more? I mean...it'd be stupid to give him the streak and he disappears until SummerSlam again. Now's the time to capitalize and use that 5 million dollar a year investment to good use.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Lol at people trying to put the blame on Taker for that average Lesnar/Taker match, it's been pretty much established Lesnar chokes at WM, 55 year old Sting could have easily had a better match than that with Taker 


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----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

As an actual "show" that was one of the greatest Mania's of all time for me. It had everything in that sense. A fantastic mark out moment(s) (loved the passing of the torch comments) to open the show, new stars created (Cesaro, and Bryan as THE guy), fun musical performances, the BIGGEST shock in WWE kayfabe history and a wonderful feel good moment to end the event which contrasted so bizarrely with Taker losing the steak. A rollercoaster of emotions.


In terms of matches I believe there are probably quite a few better Manias, but that obviously isn't everything. If I could compare it to anything I'd point to Mania XIV which was an incredible "show", but it was filled with lots of ordinary matches and maybe just two great ones.




*Actual match ratings and comments:*


Four way tag - **

Didn't care for this at all until it was down to the Usos and the Real Americans. Obviously Swagger and Cesaro made this worthwhile, Swagger in particular caught my eye with some interesting counters against the Usos haphazard flying. The finish was the correct call and led to a fantastic post match break up. Not an important match or particularly good, but was somewhat necessary in the grand scheme of things with Cesaro climbing the ladder.


HHH/Bryan - ****

Was blown away by this in the sense that I thought it would be okay but essentially passable. Thankfully it was much more than that because HHH actually made me invest in his control segments for the first time in fucking ever. Targeting Bryan's shoulder made perfect sense. Hardly rocket surgery to target such an obvious weakness, but this is WWE (and HHH, at times) we're talking about. The cut offs against Bryan's come backs looked great, but that's Bryan for you. He brings that pace and intensity. Marked like fuck when Bryan kicked out of the pedigree. The finish with the knee was well done and the match peaked just at the right moment judging by the crowd's investment at the time. Also have to give credit to Steph for being the utter cunt that she was at ringside. "YOU CAN'T BEAT HIM." Lovely heel character work that just added to the overall story. This wasn't a classic and probably needed to go up an extra gear during the finishing stretch to become that, but damn I'm not going to whinge about that when this completely surpassed my previously low expectations.


Shield/N.A.O and Kane - **

Fun squash. Short and very sweet. Spotty? Yes, but it was exciting filler. Ideally I would have rather had the shield involved in something far more significant, and with a longer running time, but it was enjoyable for what it was and had a memorable finish.


Andre battle royal - ***

Everything that occurred before Fandango's dance on the apron was utter dudsville. Tedious and a waste of time. Why didn't they just have a mad rush at the start and eliminate a load of jobbers to pop the crowd? That would have left the main guys and gave the crowd an easier time of following the action so that they could become invested in their "picks". However, Fandango's wiggle (not that it was entertaining, but the crowd were good value) signalled a shift in pace for the match which resulted in all of the jobbers being swiftly booted the fuck out, leading to fun exchanges between the credible guys. 

Not sure why Kofi is referred to as UC because he clearly isn't a UC, even if his only valuable asset is performing an amazing spot in these types of matches. So right now I'll refer to him as 'a gnats arse hair away from being a UC'. Sheamus battering the fuck out of (I forget who it was now) was terrific. The little push for the elimination was brilliantly played comedy that balanced comfortably on the thin line between 'a tiny bit cheesy' and 'Hornswaggle and El Torito at the HOF'. Loved the spot where Del Rio told a cat skinning Dolph to fuck of with a kick, Del Rio's resulting smug grin was deliciously heelish as well. 

Then there was the finish...what can I say? A surprise, a piece of validation that WWE do have something of a clue, and all in all a top finish to the match. MARKED the fuck out when Cesaro picked up Show. Was expecting Show to grab onto the ropes and counter, but over he went and the crowd went ballistic. A star was born in Cesaro. Wonderful stuff.


Bray/Cena - **1/2

I obviously didn't enjoy this anywhere near as much as others seemed to. The reason for that was mostly to do with jumbled story telling elements and an anticlimactic finish.

I liked the idea of the story that they tried to tell. Really I did, it was a fantastic idea. Wyatt is trying to make Cena crack so that he can expose him as a fraud, a man who is actually not honourable or a true hero. Loved the start of the match where Bray was on his knees because instantly you knew what the match was going to be about. However, for me it never really built from there in the correct manner. 

Cena's internal conflict peaked FAR too early on and led to some of the most hammy tortured angry soul facial expressions I've seen since I was an angsty teen looking in the mirror. He needed to gradually build towards that rage near the end, before letting his true good intentions sway him. The idea that his emotions wre topsy turvy throughout the outing took me out of the match a little bit. 

Then there was Bray's control segment which honestly just plodded on and lacked the intensity that I obviously required to become invested. His pandering to the crowd honestly didn't help me out either. For me he shouldn't be acknowledging the audience in that manner in a match where he's trying to expose a supposedly cheesy fraud. Wyatt wants to take away the WWE fans' heroes, yet he's acting like one? Okay. Maybe that was supposed to come across as him being the brain washing cult leader, but honestly I felt like the match NEEDED him to turn the crowd onto Cena's side for the finish which was a reasonable idea, but fell flat because it lacked the crowd reaction required when Cena chose to do what was right. Obviously Cena having become spastic incredible Hulk early on before calming down and showing mild hesitation at the end didn't help either. 

For a story heavy match this needed to be structured with greater logic imo. It hit some sweet spots at times but ultimately left me disappointed. Not sure how Cena or Wyatt benefit from Cena winning really (unless Bray is going to win an extended feud), but booking decisions don't come into it. Match would have still been ordinary by my definition if Bray had won.


Taker/Brock - **

Let me get this out of the way; the finish had NOTHING to do with my rating. If anything the finish was the best damn part of the match and gave me possibly the realist feeling that I've ever had watching wrestling.

The match itself was the pits though. Brock's control segment was total pish, completely drawn out and half hearted. The fact that Taker looked so vulnerable for the entire match without Brock really laying into him just took the shine off the spectacle for me. The streak was beaten...and Taker didn't even look like he was durable for the most part. No thanks. Taker looked past his sell by date and struggled to perform basic shit at times which didn't help matters either.

The match had no real drama apart from the finisher kick outs (well duh, it's a streak match) and the SHOCK finish. Otherwise it was just a lethargic methodical work out from Brock for large parts that really didn't fit the nature of the two men's kayfabe (and worker) reputations. I wanted to see them KILL each other. The streak should have been worth DYING for (okay Taker looked like he was dying from the start, but that's not putting the series over at all), but it was just a by the numbers bore that had a rocket shoved up its arse right at the end.

What I will say is that the result gave the most emotional experience I've ever had watching prop graps. The streak is OVER? Is this the END of Taker? What do they have in store for Brock? I was honestly numb for about five minutes after the match (not sure if it was a good or bad feeling, probably a mix). Fuckern warz! Not going to talk about whether Brock being the guy to do it was the right call (save that discussion for later), but I do feel as if the finish left me a bit spent and probably _slightly_ undermined my experience of the triple threat match. Mostly because I was thinking it could Taker's last match in general. Still, judging by Taker's state and declining athleticism it was probably the best decision to have this as his last streak match (if that's the case) regardless of the result.


Divas stuff - N/A

Honestly have no idea what this was like at all despite blankly staring at the screen. Could have been a five star classic (okay maybe not) for all I know, but the result of the last match was still playing over and over in my mind. Who actually won? I have no idea...


Bryan/Orton/Batista ***1/2

Well this was FAR better than I thought it would be. Not just because of Bryan, but Orton was very good and Batista managed to not fuck up while also timing his spots well. I'm generally not a huge fan of triple threats but this very good. 

Orton battering Batista outside at the start actually held my attention when I would have expected to have been greeted by by (by by?) the numbers WWE cliché ringside brawling. Orton's backdrop, leaving Batista reeling after a barrier collision, made me cringe but in a good way. Bryan was selective with choosing his moments at times, but it actually added greater impact to the match by thwarting a one dimensional pace.

The HHH/Steph/Armstrong run in was overbooked for me, but it obviously added drama to the match. At least they all fucked off and let the three guys working the match hog the spotlight afterwards. I was honestly expecting HHH to have a ref shirt underneath his jacket before he brought the ref out, but in retrospect that would have been a poor move with HHH overshadowing the in ring events far too much. So overbooked, but could have been worse I guess.

That Batista bomb/RKO spot on the announcer's table? My word. Sensational. Even the character work between Batista and Orton in the build up to that was stellar, just staring at each other and telepathically acknowledging "This Bryan guy just won't go away. This is a huge problem and we're probably going to have to DEAL WITH IT" (probably Batista). The aggression that followed with wrecking the table top just put over a no nonsense attitude of having to do whatever it took to get rid of Bryan. Then the incredible spot occurred and they managed to work me for a few seconds. I thought both Orton and Bryan were legit FUCKED (didn't help that Orton was writhing on the floor, arching his back with a monitor close to the small of his back) and Batista's hesitation didn't help erode that feeling. Then Dave swatted Orton and business resumed. Bryan was stretchered away before making an obvious comeback. Basic story telling but it worked wonders with Bryan as the spirited and determined underdog.

The finishing stretch had me on edge with a lot of anxious near falls. After Taker/Lesnar my head was spinning so ANY finish was a possibility to me at that point. Thankfully they made the correct call with Bryan winning. I'll probably need to rematch this match once I've got the streak business out of my head, but I certainly can't see this going down a notch, if anything it will mature with time.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I forgot, I should give credit to Batista. He really rose to the occasion, and looked like a totally different person from all of his recent matches.

Just goes to show you that we shouldn't always prejudge things and be so definitive about who/what will suck. You just never know.

I'd also like to amend my earlier statement about Brock breaking the streak being one of my biggest mark out moments of all time. It was _the_ biggest. Replayed it multiple times, and I still get giddy each time I see it. :lol


I also can't wait to hear from people (Starbuck!) who were at the stadium. It seems like Brock's win didn't even fully register until (I assume) they put the 21-1 graphic on the screen. I heard a very loud reaction when Heyman was hugging Lesnar, and it looked like most people were turned toward the screen during that audible reaction. So I'm assuming that's when it truly sunk in for most people.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I heard that huge pop after the stunned silence as well, and was wondering what that was all about.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Since I've been name dropped and all..... Lol. I don't think I've ever experienced anything like that in my life, in reference to the streak being broken. I can't even believe I'm typing that. Jesus. I didn't believe it happened, I actually thought it was a 2 count because nothing happened after the pinfall. Nobody around me thought it was over or knew what was going on until the 21-1 went up on the screen and even still we didn't believe it. It only registered with me when I saw Brock smiling and Heyman losing his shit. Then I saw the 21-1 again, heard the disbelief around me and just fell into a stunned silence. It was absolutely surreal and there aren't any words to describe the atmosphere during the whole thing. Bullshit chants broke out and everybody was just in pure disbelief. I still am. Crazy part is, I was contemplating going to get something to eat....in the middle of a streak match! Honestly the whole match up until the finish was just horrible truth be told and actually a bit awkward. But my allegiance to the streak kept me in my seat however amd good God am I ever glad it did. 

So yeah, in the arena it didn't go down well at all and its definitely the most, I can't even think of the word but insert it here lol, feeling I've ever experienced probably in, y life never mind wrestling. 

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----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

My jaw literally dropped when I was watching live with my parents (I'll probably have to provide my annual Mania running diary w/parental commentary at some point, and they couldn't believe it. My dad had a feeling Brock would win given how bad Taker looked physically, but my mom was pretty pissed off at the finish. I was just in utter shock and disbelief. I'm not upset about it, though. Taker is a true professional who did the right thing. I hope Brock pays it forward and puts over Bryan in the long run. He can win the title first, as he probably should now, but ultimately the rub will be given to someone else. 

Oh, and one more thing: FUCKING BROCK :mark:

edit - While we're on the topic of beating put over cleanly in the purest form, Bryan was put over like crazy tonight. Pinned Triple H CLEAN and then owned him with the sledgehammer and took out the entire Authority, then made Batista tap in the middle of the ring to win the title. Pretty nuts.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

what the fuck @ Taker's streak ending to a part-timer who couldn't be put over by Cena or HHH on regular PPVs the past two years. Like that serves any purpose.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

I honestly felt like I lost feeling in my body for a good while after the three count was made. Wasn't sure whether I had zoned out into another dimension, was odd as fuark. Just never saw it coming. Got to say that when wrestling makes you feel like that then they've obviously done _something_ correct??? Moments like that just make you completely forget the scripted nature of the deal. I'll have to let it completely sink in (could take weeks to be honest) before I decide exactly how I feel about it. I think the mma mark in Taker was partly responsible for the decision to put Brock over, not that I agree with the mma mark in Taker if that's the case. I think? Fuck knows.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

This woman behind me was vocal all night long and just sat in her seat after Lesnar won. Didn't speak another word, move do anything. Some older ladies were crying, people yelling WHAT THE FUCK JUST HAPPENED, people standing in stunned silence, people with their hands covering their mouths in shock. It was crazy. And they way nothing happened for ages until Brocks music played, man, it was really eery. It all just felt really off amd even awkward.

I finally went to grab some food at the start of the divas match and the faces of everybody on the way to the concession stand were remarkable lol. Then some idiot in the line for food started blaming Hunter saying it was his fault and that he demanded a refund which made me laugh considerably. Then I remembered what happened and I'm telling you, that was the saddest hot dog I've ever eaten  

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----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah that's just how I was on my sofa. Just numb, flabbergasted, breath taken out of my lungs. Speechless. Felt like one of those r.e.m dreams where you try to move but just can't because your brain isn't in total control of your body. Wus wared as fuark bor.

Amazing how HHH is the go to for blame when anything unappreciated occurs :lmao Yeah, as if Taker was letting HHH call the shots in regards to the streak...people like that need to wise up fpalm


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I agree w/Yeah. Lesnar should've never lost to Cena or HHH. I understand that they may have never intended for Lesnar to end the Streak when those losses occurred, but still it seems really awkward.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

The only way they can salvage this is if Brock goes on an absolute tear, smashing through a few guys, before A HUGE LARGE match is booked between him and Bryan (or Cesaro?) for a future A ppv. That way he can transfer/convert the heat he has gained from taker and use it to put over a face in some manner. If Brock just does nothing with this then LOL WWE FFS.

But yes, poor hindsight on WWE's part if they always knew the plan was to have Taker lose to Brock at some point. Should have had an undefeated streak (Brock since returning) vs undefeated streak in that case. I always felt that Cena going over Brock (despite the match being amazing regardless) was a bad call, last night didn't help that feeling at all.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It took the wind out of my sails for sure amd I got mad at wwe because I was sitting there knowing I was too OMGWTFISGOINGON to be excited about Bryans possible big win. Things only started to pick up in the main event when Hunter, Steph and Armstrong came out. Then it was like, ok, focus here lol, there's a match going on. From that point on I forgot about the streak and the title match had me with all the crazy shit that went down.

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----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah the streak result dampened my mood for Bryan in the sense that I felt vulnerable to fully investing in the match. Knowing WWE, they could have done something dumb and had Bryan lose via screw job (well, a part timer just beat the streak ffs), I wasn't willing to be heart broken twice, so I viewed the main event with total caution. Regretting that now, obviously.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Eh, I see the WWE having Lesnar break the streak as a way to rectify those losses to Cena and HHH. It's basically a reboot.

I think that Lesnar has enough cred that him beating the Taker after losing to those two doesn't seem so weird. Especially since it took three f5's to put Taker away.

Plus, I guess since everyone knows the deal with wrestling, I just feel that most would probably chalk those earlier losses up to bad booking decisions, not any weakness on Lesnar's part. Therefore, it doesn't make the win against Taker seem unrealistic, IMO.

Thanks for writing that, Starbuck. What you said is exactly what I thought had happened, as far as the audience not even realizing that Brock had won. The faces in the front few rows showed that it immediately registered for those folk, but due to the stunned silence, I figured that it didn't quite register for most of the rest of the stadium. 


I can't think of a single other time when the WWE executed such a shock like that. Good job on their part for keeping it so quiet too. Someone tweeted that most of the wrestlers in the lockerroom were just as shocked as the audience was, lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I think the doubt instilled by Lesnar winning made the closing sequence of the main event that much better. I legit believed the match was over in Orton/Batista's favor numerous times, and when Bryan finally flew back in with the knee + YES Lock, I was losing my shit.

edit That's what I said about Lesnar winning as well. Makes up for the Cena loss in his return match. This win is obviously bigger than either of those losses. Hopefully this means Lesnar sticks around for a bit.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It's a true testament to everybody involved, Bryan, Orton, Batista, Hunter, Steph, that they were able to make us forget. Massive props to all of them. I believed the fix was in and when Bryan won, Jesus lol. Nothing like it in the world. Just incredible. 

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----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm a big Lesnat mark but I don't see the point giving him the honours when he's just going to dissappear again next week. 

LilOlMe I was 5th row ringside and I nor anybody around me had a clue what the hell was going on lol. It was just fucked up. There, that's probably the best description for it lol. 

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## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> I'm a big Lesnat mark but I don't see the point giving him the honours when he's just going to dissappear again next week.
> 
> LilOlMe I was 5th row ringside and I nor anybody around me had a clue what the hell was going on lol. It was just fucked up. There, that's probably the best description for it lol.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App




I attended tonight as well. 3Rd row in the 2nd deck center ring, just silent. I thought I was literally dreaming. Saw a few people with glazed over eyes just leaving their seats and others screaming WHY LESNAR END IT?! 

I love Brock, but don't understand it. By far the biggest upset of all time.


----------



## CM_Skippy (May 1, 2012)

I think I'm starting to understand why they might have done this. Everyone has been saying how Taker's matches were growing predictable and now that's over. If he's to retire soon then it makes sense that he would want to retire in an unpredictable match. It lends a few nice storyline points to things as well - Undertaker clearly getting old, heels can ask what is Undertaker without the streak, and it puts kayfabe doubt in his mind for him to overcome. Basically it makes Undertaker more interesting again

It's just a shame it had to happen in a disappointing match and to a part-timer. Lesnar's contracts have ended around Mania before though, so I imagine he's signed a multi-year deal now. WWE wouldn't have done this if Lesnar wasn't going to be around for a few more years


----------



## tonsgrams (Aug 6, 2013)

One of the greatest of the Wrestlemania's of all time I reckon, every match on the card was at the very least good.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I hope Taker gets a big send off, i didn't want it to happen like this,


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watching Mania now. Good lord Bryan/HHH owned. Wyatts/Shield is still MOTY but that was fantastic. Trips really fucking stepped it up.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

HOLY. SHIT. Just finished watching with a couple of buddies, and I really, really enjoyed the show overall. I haven't enjoyed a Mania this much in a while, and that's saying a lot considering the fact that I wasn't blown away by match quality. Undertaker/Bork was extremely disappointing and yet it turned out to be one of the biggest moments in WrestleMania history. And Bryan finally getting his moment...fuck. I need a cigarette.


----------



## Jammy (Jan 3, 2012)

-Bryan/HHH was my MOTN 4.25/5. HHH looked like a fucking beast, great performance by him. Bryan as expected, was great. My only gripe was the this felt like the MAIN EVENT, not even Bryan winning the championship felt as big as a clean win over HHH.
-Triple Threat 3.5/5 (RKO/Powerbomb spot + Bryan run in at the end 5/5)
-Undertaker/Lesnar 2/5 (really disliked it, usually I expect a finisher kick-out fest but im invested in the match, but this time it ONLY felt like a kickout fest)
-Streak Broken 5/5 (was bored with the match, thought taker would kickout again, but my word what a fucking punch to the gut.
-Shield/Outlaws, Kane DUD - hate squashes. 
-Wyatt/Cena 3/5 Hated the ending.
-Culmination of the Bryan journey 100000/5
-honorable mention CESARO powerslamming BEEG and winning 5/5


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I thought the Taker/Brock match was pretty good (***1/2) whilst disappointing in relation to anticipation, what'd you guys think of Taker portrayal as the babyface in the match?


----------



## Born of Osiris (Oct 29, 2013)

I'm still up this late in the morning and still shocked at Taker losing. 

It was just an insane moment, wasn't angry or sad but just in complete fucking Shock. It even took away whatever hype I had for the main event until halfway through the match where Bryan was starting to hulk up.

it just felt so surreal. Here I was bitching about how predictable Taker/Brock was going to be and how I had no interest at all in the match and they up pulling probably the most shocking WM moment in history. 

It just feels weird knowing that the streak is broken. All the buildup over the past 2 decades and it's all gone. 

Brock was one of the last people I thought was going to end the streak.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I heard rumours Taker may be in hospital. I fucking hope he is alright, or as good as he can be atm.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Lost in the incredible ME and the Streak match is the fact that Bryan/HHH put on the greatest opener in WM history. Honestly think this match surpasses Bret/Owen. I may have to go watch it again but as of now I'm going with HHH/Bryan. Just an epic match. Big shoutout to HHH and Steph for being absolutely fantastic tonight.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

So, I woke up this morning (got myself a gun), and got legit shocked for about five minutes after seeing that Lesnar went over Taker. I even had to triple check the results, heh. Huuuge surprise. With this kind of rub he just got, Lesnar better stay in WWE for the next 10 years with at least 30 dates per year booked. I mean, Jesus... We're talking about the biggest putover of modern wrestling, right? Sheeeeeit! That's why I prefered Wyatt, Ambrose, Reigns or someone else smashing The Streak, because those guys should/could wrestle for WWE 10-15 more years. I'm not sure if this was the right call by Taker, only time will tell, like usual.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Bryan v HHH - ****1/2

Battle royal - **1/2

Bray v Cena - ***1/2

Taker v Lesner - **1/2

Triple threat - ****


Holy shit at Taker losing, I was in total shock and seeing Bryan in 2 great matches and winning them was superb, what a show, best mania since 24.


----------



## NotoriousTCG (Nov 28, 2013)

I didn't really find HHH/Bryan that good, would only give it about ***.

I honestly can't give a rating for the main event because I just didn't care. After Taker lost that show ended for me. I just watched and wanted to be happy and I was still in Shock


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

I like the idea of Lesnar ending it because the person who does end it is going to get heat that surpasses heel heat and extends to genuine crowd resentment (people cat calling or not willing to watch them on screen). I really think it would have an adverse effect on any young heel they tried to give the accolade too. With Lesnar though, he's already credible and he's a part-timer that's not in it for the long-haul. They can really build on this for the next year and have Lesnar go on a mini-streak beating all the heroes of the WWE (he can have matches with Cena, maybe a returning Punk a couple months from now, hell maybe Bryan can drop the strap to him) building to a huge match at Wrestlemania 31 we're he puts over a new top face, be it Cesaro, Reigns or whoever they have in mind.


----------



## TheWFEffect (Jan 4, 2010)

Oh by the way, after the Taker shock, the crowd still being into Daniel Bryan and cheering him like crazy speaks VOLUMES to his overness. I don't think anyone can doubt he belongs at the top right now.


----------



## CM_Skippy (May 1, 2012)

*Ratings*

Daniel Bryan Vs Triple H - ****1/4
The Shield Vs Kane & NAO - **
Andre the Giant Battle Royal - ***
Bray Wyatt Vs John Cena - ****
Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar - **1/2
Divas - ** (some decent spots for what it was)
Orton Vs Batista Vs Bryan - ****1/4


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Lesnar better be using that HEAT to put over a babyface HUGE. Imagine if Bryan beats him at Mania- the kind of rub he'd get.

That has to be the endgame right? Lesnar has to be the monster heel he once was and use this heat he will undoubtedly get to put over someone massively.

Anyway, massive respect to Taker. May have been his last or penultimate match and he chooses to go out losing. What a guy.


----------



## DingoMan (Mar 1, 2014)

If Daniel Bryan needs the rub of Brock Lesnar after Triple H, Batista & Randy Orton basically made the guy look a million dollars and put him over stronger than basically any star has ever been put over at Wrestlemania then something is seriously wrong with Daniel Bryan.


----------



## Born of Osiris (Oct 29, 2013)

Quoth the Raven said:


> Lesnar better be using that HEAT to put over a babyface HUGE. Imagine if Bryan beats him at Mania- the kind of rub he'd get.
> 
> That has to be the endgame right? Lesnar has to be the monster heel he once was and use this heat he will undoubtedly get to put over someone massively.
> 
> Anyway, massive respect to Taker. May have been his last or penultimate match and he chooses to go out losing. What a guy.


How do you do that when you only wrestle 3 PPV's a year and show up on Raw only 6 or so times a year? That's the problem with him winning.

He only has one PPV left in his contract for this year.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KuroNeko said:


> How do you do that when you only wrestle 3 PPV's a year and show up on Raw only 6 or so times a year? That's the problem with him winning.
> 
> He only has one PPV left in his contract for this year.


Exactly my thoughts. Turns up for Summerslam.........then that is yet 'till what, Jan 2015?

If he is around more, given a title run, then maybe, just maybe.

I just really hope Taker has a retirement sendoff. I dont want it to all end like this. 

Im still in shock and still miffed TBH.


----------



## TheWFEffect (Jan 4, 2010)

Who else was there to beat Taker? Lesnar was takers by product after all hell in a cell, chain match and numerous hardcore matches which lesnar all won.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

DingoMan said:


> If Daniel Bryan needs the rub of Brock Lesnar after Triple H, Batista & Randy Orton basically made the guy look a million dollars and put him over stronger than basically any star has ever been put over at Wrestlemania then something is seriously wrong with Daniel Bryan.


Who says he needs it? He definitely won't need it, he was the most over guy in wrestling a week ago but after tonight he's going to be near megastar over. But, a Lesnar/Bryan program is the hottest match they can do and you'd be wrong if you think the WWE does not have that penciled in in the near future.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

DingoMan said:


> If Daniel Bryan needs the rub of Brock Lesnar after Triple H, Batista & Randy Orton basically made the guy look a million dollars and put him over stronger than basically any star has ever been put over at Wrestlemania then something is seriously wrong with Daniel Bryan.



Doesn't really "need" the rub. And I don't get you saying this at all because the fact that he managed to wake the crowd up and be so energetic during the main event after Taker's loss speaks volumes.

But he does need strong heels to feud with. Monster heels, who you actually think Bryan won't have a chance against. That's where Brock comes in. Brock/Bryan was actually my dream main event for Mania, when I had fantasy booked Bryan to win the Rumble and Brock to win the belt at EC. Looks like we'll still get it sometime down the line, but now the odds against Bryan will be even bigger.






@KuroNeko

Yeah they MUST work out a deal with more appearances. Maybe they have. Taker must have agreed to lose knowing it will benefit someone, so gotta wait and see. Tonight's Raw should be interesting.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

My thoughts and massive fucking respect go to Taker. He wants to end it now, and obviously respects Lesnar, and i do hope he gets a massive reception/send off at some point. That moment when Taker apparently said to Brock "Lets go home", makes me feel so sad and melancholy at the same time.

It was Taker's decision at the end of the day so as much as it saddens me and im not convinced it should have been Lesnar, not after all these years, but Taker decided he was the man to finish his career on.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

After what happened last night, it's hard to look past or talk about anything other than The Streak. I've never experienced anything quite like that and I doubt a moment will ever come close to eliciting that emotion within a wrestling ring again. Stunned, flabbergasted, destroyed. When that 3 count rang out, my jaw hit the floor and stayed there for 5-10 minutes. I was in utter disbelief, so much so that I almost expected the match to be restarted, until Heyman started celebrating. It was an unbelievable sight and the way that the moment was handled aided in that disbelief. No music, no real confirmation. Just a silent broadcast as the entire arena and everyone watching at home was given time to soak in the moment that The Streak died.

Watching that pinfall was the most surreal moment in professional wrestling history. I'm still at a loss for words now, but last night, I could've been crossing the road in the middle of traffic and suffered the same reaction. All senses gone with no idea what to do with myself. No idea how to react, or feel. For a brief time, reality ceased to exist. A great sadness washed over as I blankly stared at the screen. What just happened? Did The Undertaker really just lose at WrestleMania?

Touching on the actual match and what the ending means is difficult. It wasn't up to the standard of Taker's usual Mania outing, and because of that, I was thrown for a loop. I couldn't quite grasp the quality of the action. The match quality itself was, unfortunately, the biggest letdown of the night. 

The Streak is conquered, long live the beast. If there was ever a heel to end the streak, you would hope that he could sell that victory as other-worldly. Heyman is that man. That's one point of solice. I firmly believe that there isn't a single person who could sell this momentous occurrence better than Paul Heyman. Past that, I don't know how to feel or what to say. I just hope that Brock is firmly planted in the company from now on. Disappearing for six months at a time isn't an option anymore (not any time soon).

---

Kicking off the show, bringing out Hogan was the perfect way to start Mania out. Little did I know, things could only get better from here. When Austin's music hit, I lost my shit. Add Rock to the mix and you've got one of those WrestleMania moments we all love to talk about. A pure, unadulterated mark-out moment.

Transitioning straight into Bryan/Haitch - this already had the makings for one of the best WrestleMania's of all time. Whether the show reached those lofty heights in the end is up for debate, but one thing can be said for sure, this felt like WrestleMania. I've been very critical of how WWE have presented Mania in recent years. It's often plodded along and felt very ordinary until the main-eventers (particularly Taker) showed-up late in the show. Not tonight. From the very get-go, this was the grandest stage of 'em all. WrestleMania was rolling. 

Bryan/Haitch produced a match every bit as good as the preceding feud deserved and even better than I expected. The control segments from Haitch made sense and provided a good base, pulling me further into the match as doubt slowly crept in that Bryan might lose. Bryan kicking out of the pedigree and ultimately hitting the running knee for the victory was sufficient justice. The whole match gelled really well and ended up being my MOTN. Watching Bryan pin Triple H in the middle of the ring and secure his spot in the main-event sent me over-the-edge. Just before Hunter brought me back down to earth, re-injuring Bryan's shoulder and expertly introducing further doubt over Bryan's standings.

The Shield winning was fun but ultimately a giant waste of their immense talents. It was probably the only way the match could go down. However, I'm of the opinion that squashes have no place at WM. Although, they looked strong and I guess that's enough.

The battle royal plodded along in it's own cluster-fuck manner, until enough men had been eliminated and things were allowed to gain more structure. There was a couple of cool spots along the way, such as Kofi avoiding elimination, Sheamus clubberin' the holy hell out of Fandango, and Del Rio denying Ziggler the opportunity to 'skin the cat'. All that aside, this match was all about the ending. As things dwindled down, my focus became increasingly centered around Cesaro as belief began to creep in that WWE might be going with him. No one would benefit to the same degree as Cesaro, yet this is the WWE and the combination of Sheamus/ADR/Show is a sizeable booking equation to overcome. When Sheamus and ADR eliminated each other, I was almost certain that Cesaro was going to win. It filled me with great joy to watch Cesaro pick Show over his head and slam him down over the top ropes - as images of Hogan body-slamming Andre filtered through my mind. Tremendous imagery. 

WWE going with Cesaro started to put the night into perspective. WWE have just given big moments to Daniel Bryan, The Shield, and Cesaro - one after the other. This really is the changing of the guard, and what a fucking guard. It's a dawning of a new day and if Bray Wyatt can beat John Ce.... Oh, nevermind. Cena wins.

Given the story that the WWE wanted to tell, there was never really any other way this could end. How do you follow through with the destruction of your main star's legacy? That aside, Bray looked like a real star here. I wish that he had got the win, as it would have meant a lot more to him, but he was elevated nonetheless. His entrance was a thing of beauty. The match itself was decent, a little muddled and it didn't really hit it's stride until the latter stages. A slight disappointment, but decent enough. Little did I know that the disappointment washing across me was but a small taste of things to come.

The Streak is dead. My emotions are shot and I'm in a state of disbelief. All energy has left my body. So, naturally, that could only mean one thing... It's time for a divas match, and this isn't just any diva's match. It's a 14 woman cluster-fuck invitational, accompanied by Vickie Guerrerro's shrill screams. My mouth is still wide-open at this point as bright colours and loud noises wash over my senses. I couldn't give this match a second even if I wanted to. The Streak. It's all about The Streak. Thank fuck they didn't go back-to-back with main-events.

Onto the main-event. It's do or die for the WWE, and Bryan is just making his way to the ring. Yet, like most people, my mind is still on The Streak. Brock Lesnar just walked away with the biggest scalp in professional wrestling history. WWE wouldn't do that again in the main-event, surely? I was taken in and out of this match in the beginning as frequently as Daniel Bryan. I couldn't concentrate on the match and it wasn't until the involvement of The Authority that I really snapped into the action. Orton and Batista did some good work here, and everything surrounding the match created a false sense of insecurity. There were several times throughout when I believed that Bryan was going to lose. From the Batista Bomb and Scott Armstrong's involvement, to Haitch pulling out the sledgehammer. When Bryan countered and nailed Haitch in the skull, we were officially off to the races in my mind. Everything from here-on-out was great. The double teaming from Orton and Batista, into the Bomb/RKO table-spot. The match was much better than I expected. When Bryan hit the knee on Batista and locked in the Yes Lock, I lost my shit again. 

Daniel Bryan just won the WWEWHC in the main-event of WrestleMania. This was an absolute story-book ending. One that I will personally remember for a long time. What a moment. What a way to end the show. What a way to conclude a year of heartbreak and anguish. THE AMERICAN DRAGON BRYAN DANIELSON JUST HEADLINED WRESTLEMANIA BEATING TRIPLE H, RANDY ORTON, AND BATISTA TO WIN THE WWE WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!!!!!

While the match quality wasn't at a peak, this Mania accomplished something that few in recent years have done. It felt like the big show. It created imagery that will last a generation. Hogan/Austin/Rock standing in the ring sharing a beer, The Streak being broken, Bryan holding hoisting the WWEWHC high as confetti rains down. This, ultimately, is what Mania is all about.


----------



## El Dylan (Jun 28, 2011)

Daniel Bryan Vs Triple H - ****1/4
The Shield Vs Kane & NAO - **
Andre the Giant Battle Royal - ***1/4
Bray Wyatt Vs John Cena - ***3/4
Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar - ***
Divas - Too shocked to watch.
Orton Vs Batista Vs Bryan - ****1/4


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Great Mania IMO. Best one since WM 19. Opening segment was really good. 3 biggest stars of wrestling history and they could have stood there saying nothing and it would have still been a good segment. I never thought I would see all three men in the same ring at once. Loved how Rock put over the current generation by comparing Bryan to Austin and Cena to Hogan. Ended with all 3 men drinking beer

HHH vs Bryan might be the best Mania opener ever IMO. Just awesome and HHH did a good job of making Bryan look legit and set up a good finish later in the night. Cena vs Wyatt was good but I don't understand why Cena had to win this one. Not only win but to kick out of the sister abigail finisher. Of course we need to wait and see how this feud develops first. Wyatt will still get his win back thats fore sure. 

Biggest surprise of the night is definitely the streak ending. Never saw that coming. The match was disappointing (as was the build and the result). It's weird to see how Lesnar is the chosen one to end it. They literally handed him everything during his first run with the company and then he decides to leave them just after 2 years. Not only that he criticises the company after leaving and then returns and admits he is only doing it for the money. I get that he is a legit name but I just never saw that one coming.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

- Hogan is a fuck up. Has he had one promo free of botches since his return? Just a stumbling idiot.
- AUSTIN AUSTIN AUSTIN BAH GAWD THA RATTLESNAKE :bahgawd First mark out moment.
- Oh...it's The Rock. Yay.
- Three musketeers toast their beers and salute the cheers...wow pure poetry.
- Triple H entrance was super, reminiscent of his ill fated Conan entrance a few years back.
- Great match, great finish. Steph gave the front row fans a good view. ****
- Shield vs. Suits. Shield masks were awesome. Match was short and a waste of The Shield but they looked great. **1/2
- BATTLE ROYAL. Of course only Show and Fella get entrances.
- Another SKILLZ moment from Kofi, which was neat-o I guess.
- Justin Gabriel almost gets KILLED in his elimination. Fuck sake.
- Cesaro picked up Show like a sack of spuds. He had a great night and next year will be even bigger. **3/4
- THAT FUCKING WYATT ENTRANCE. Best entrance I've ever seen, no hyperbole. Just fucking perfect. The plague masks...dang.
- BOOOOO CENA.
- Bit of a slow burner but have to laugh at Cena's pathetic Arnie 'AAAAGGGHHHH!' facial expressions. 
- Bray conducting the crowd during the sing a long. He is just fantastic. That spider walk during the five knuckle shuffle! ***3/4
- Time for Mike Erhmentraut (sp) against O'DOYLE RULES. Match was bereft of any heat at the start thanks to the pathetic build up.
- Poor old Taker really struggled towards the end, and...the ending of the match was hypnotic. Seeing the collective reactions of the crowd with their hands on their heads. Biggest WM moment since Austin's heel turn. **1/4
- LOL PIPER ORNDORFF HOGAN MR.T LEGENDS FUNNY SEGMENT NO fuck off mate.
- Divas match. Full of intensity, ring savvy, grandeur and pomp. ***** 
- Orton's music is fucking lame, so the band playing meant noooooothing. Crowd is still deflated after Taker's loss.
- I didn't even catch Triple H coming out to ringside. OOH it's Scott Armstrong...when was that angle? Last fucking October?
- Orton NASTY bump onto the monitor...dang. 
- BRYAN WINS BRYAN WINS BAH GAWD :bahgawd YES-LEMANIA! :lawler The only way they could end this show really. Perfect. ****


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'd also like to give special mention to Randy Orton. That dude took one nasty ass back bump DIRECTLY onto a video monitor, then kept going like nothing was wrong. That's one tough, tough, SOB. Not only that, but he was not good, he was fucking GREAT during the entire match. Randall finally killed it in a Mania main event, and kudos to him. Bryan of course was as good as he always is, the selling, the intensity, the FIRE, he made sure that match never lagged. And Batista looked almost like his 2010 self. Still not a great worker or anything, but more than serviceable. I think the biggest thing I'd like to see from Batista is for him to start showing some emotion in his matches. I swear I haven't seen his expression change ONCE in any of his matches since returning, he just has this wide eyes look with his mouth open, sucking wind. If he can add a cocky sneer and some ferocity to his work, it would go a long way to increasing the quality of his matches.

All said and done WM 30 gave us 3 **** matches (Bryan/Hunter, Cena/Wyatt, and Bryan/Batista/Orton), along with the most shocking moment in wrestling history. What more can you ask for than that? Not to mention all the undercard matches were at the very least enjoyable to watch.

Hunter looked better than he has in YEARS. Off the top of my head, that's the best Triple H match of the last 5+ years. Bryan's selling was on point, but goodness, Triple H was a straight SAVAGE with that arm work. Just a spectacular match.

When Lesnar pinned Taker, I literally shrieked at the top of my lungs "ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS!" Like a foul mouthed Dickie V. Couldn't believe my eyes. Shame the match wasn't better, but good lord I've never been more shocked at the outcome of a match than I was right there. At first I was angry, I wanted a Cena/Taker match next year. I never wanted the Streak to end. Then reality set in: If Brock couldn't get a great match out of Taker, the Cena certainly wouldn't be able to especially when Taker is another year older. If Taker wanted to go out on his back, then that's his decision. He's earned that right. Not to mention, that match wasn't nearly as bad as some of you are making it out to be. The crowd being deathly quiet definitely hurt it some, and Takers old/creaky ness was also a factor, but it was still a very good match, just not a very good STREAK match. If they had had that match at another PPV in front of a molten crowd, people might consider throwing **** at it. As it is, I gave it ***1/2 which seems fair to me. Not one single match got less than *** from WM 30 (aside from the Divas match, which I didn't watch). Even the Shield squashing the NAO was tons of fun.

One last thing: how great was Bray Wyatt? Seriously, we have a new, bonafide star on our hands. His character work is among the best I've ever seen, on Mick Foley/Mankind levels. When Cena went for the FKS, turned around, and Bray was doing his upside down crab walk? :mark: :mark: Bray was AWESOME last night, he outshone Cena in a big match which is no easy task. Also, the story telling in that match was flawlessly executed. Loved Bray doing everything in his power to get the "monster" out of Cena. Really would have liked for Bray to win, as I feel he has earned it. I'm holding out hope that this feud isn't over, and will continue with a big time gimmick match at Extreme Rules next month, with Bray hopefully getting his big win then.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Bryan/HHH ****
Cena/Wyatt ***
Taker/Lesnar ***1/2ish
Bryan/Orton/Batista ****1/2

Don't think I have ever been so dragged to the edge of my sofa in the main event. Incredible performance by all three. Batista, yeah, bit sloppy but his offence was as crisp as it ever has been and considering where he was 2 months ago, he put in a class shift.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)




----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

Wrestlemania really was an emotional rollercoaster, made me react in ways I haven't since I was a kid.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

WrestleMania STARZ~

Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H: ******
The Shield vs. The Authority: ****
Battle Royal: ****
Bray Wyatt vs. John Cena: ****3/4*
Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar: ****1/2*
Divas Invitational: ***
Daniel Bryan vs. Batista vs. Randy Orton: ****1/2*

Watching this with friends they thought it was better than WrestleMania 28 and 29 that they also watched with me, and I'd agree. Wouldn't say this was a top 5 Mania though. Opening segment I didn't much care for, even though it was cool to have a segment with the three biggest stars in the industry, it just went on too long for my liking and got boring. Good to see Austin again though, and seeing his classic beer celebration at the end. Now onto the matches.

Bryan/HHH was great and lived up to my expectations. I knew with the good storyline and build going it, a heel Triple H who's been great from a character standpoint lately but the interest in seeing him work a match again as a heel, plus working a match with Bryan, that this would produce something special. Crowd ate this up, and Triple H deserves a good amount of praise in this one, he looked really good. Big win for Bryan and one the best Mania opening matches I've seen.

The Shield vs The Authority. Wow, total squash. The Shield weren't going to get MOTN regardless and this wouldn't of come close to any of The Shield's best matches no matter how it was worked, so maybe that's why they decided to rush things. Gave The Shield another WrestleMania win as a unit, two years in a row now, they're still together and they're not rushing the split which is good, so this was fine.

The battle royal I didn't really care for. Doesn't help that I predicted Rusev would win it and he wasn't even in the match fpalm. The fact they gave everyone in the match apart from Show and Sheamus jobber entrances just showed how little importance they placed on it. I didn't think it was worked that well and wasn't interesting until the final few. Cesaro's great win in this saved this match from being totally awful, big surprise, and Cesaro's strength is crazy, the moment where he easily picked up and slammed Big Show over the top rope was epic. They've got to turn the guy face now, he's definitely ready and the crowd are very much behind him.

Cena/Wyatt was good, nicely worked match that played some nice story elements in the match with Cena's fear, particularly when Cena went for the five knuckle shuffle and Bray did that spider thing that totally freaked out Cena. Was great to see Bray get a big WrestleMania match so early into his career, and I give props to WWE for really running with the guy and pushing him so well.. but Bray should of really won this one. Like Bryan, it would of given Bray a great WrestleMania moment, it would of created a new star in him, and yes I'm sour about this. Didn't like that ending at all. :side: It just reeks of what Cena's been doing for nearly 10 years now, always overcoming the odds against an up and coming heel instead of putting him over. John Cena's been the top guy for almost a decade now, and he's getting up there in age, and this would of been the perfect time to have Cena lose to showcase a star of the future, and Cena can't last for ever.. Sure they'll probably have Bray go over at Extreme Rules, but it won't mean nearly as much. 

Taker/Lesnar went on too long and there was too many slow-paced, dull moments. Taker didn't look the same guy, Lesnar's control segments just weren't engaging, the crowd weren't feeling it through some of it. Then Lesnar hit the third F5, everyone thought Taker was going to kick out... then holy shit.. utterly shocked as Lesnar gets the 3 count. Are faces in the room as stunned as those in the crowd, a awkward period when they didn't play Lesnar's music straight away and everyone was just taking in what had just happened... then they announce Lesnar's victory... 21-1 was put on the screen... and everything finally sank in. Surreal. But a great moment to witness as a wrestling fan, I, like so many other people, never thought The Streak would end, and there's something pleasant about wrestling still shocking you, as you very rarely get moments like that anymore after years and years of watching the product.

Divas match sucked and AJ still retains, lame.

Main event was pretty good.. the three way element gave it a lot more promise as Batista vs Orton by itself would of been awful and the crowd would of shat all over it. First part of the match was worked how I expected it would, with the fresh Orton and Batista primarily working against each other, while Bryan selling the effects of his match earlier by primarily staying down out of the match, having brief little comebacks now and again that excite the crowd. The announce table spot with the Batista bomb into the RKO was sick, one of the best announce table spots I've seen ever, kind of reminded me of the WrestleMania 20 three way when Triple H and HBK temporary put their differences aside to take out Benoit by sending him through the table. And ten years later the match was worked such a similar way, with Bryan as the underdog, like Benoit, coming back from it and winning the match by tapping out Batista as clean as day in the ring, just like Benoit tapped out Triple H, and winning the World Title to a big celebration. Not even a Bryan fan, but that's the best way Mania could of ended, so it was fine. 

Another thing I liked about this WrestleMania was the unpredictability, many predictions I got wrong and that surprises me because I'm usually pretty good with wrestling predictions. And... I've just realized how much I've actually wrote here.. damn.. props to anyone that reads the whole thing.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Tag Title 4-Way: ***1/4

Bryan/HHH ****1/4 (Awesome opener. HHH made DB look like gold tonight.)

Shield/Suits **

Andre Battle Royal ***

Cena/Wyatt ***1/2 Think this is being overrated by some, but it had its moments for sure. Possibly the best story told in a match all night. Loved the crowds antics as well.

Lesnar/Taker *** Pretty disappointing, ending had my jaw on the floor though.)

Divas Actually not as bad as expected. Won't give it stars though.

Bryan/Orton/Batista **** Loved this, had me on the edge of my seat. Batista Bomb/RKO combo through the table was sick. Just a chaotic war of a main event with the payoff (almost) everyone wanted.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'd also like to give special mention to Randy Orton. That dude took one nasty ass back bump DIRECTLY onto a video monitor, then kept going like nothing was wrong. That's one tough, tough, SOB. Not only that, but he was not good, he was fucking GREAT during the entire match. Randall finally killed it in a Mania main event, and kudos to him.


As funny as it sounds, above all else, this is another thing that left me satisfied with the show. As an Orton mark, I remember an interview he did a couple of years ago where he said his one last goal is to main event Wrestlemania in a show-stealing match (after how WM25 flopped). So the one thing I've wanted to see for a while is him in the actual main event and thankfully, it happened this year. And once again, he was set-up for failure due to the after-effects of the streak but this time, it wasn't enough to keep the main event from being bad!

I also give Batista props because even though I never jumped on the hate bandwagon, he's really started shaking off the ring rust since roughly a month ago and his performances have generally improved. And to actually have him tapping out? I was shocked, marking out and also the Orton fan in me was happy that he was protected for a change. No doubt this will lead into Orton's rematch with Bryan, either on Raw tonight or for Extreme Rules.

I thought it was a bit of overbooking with HHH/Stephanie interfering but after that ending, it only made the victory that much sweeter. Now it's rewatch time! :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

- Opening segment with Hogan, Austin and Rock was really fun. Great way to kick off the show and get the crowd fired up.

- AWESOME video package for Bryan/Trips. Bravo WWE. Fantastic match. What some would consider a predictable scenario is never predictable with Trips wrestling. Really good stuff, as expected. Beatdown after the match was perfect too.

- Shield vs NAO/Kane was a squash, as it should have been. After you've defeated Kane/Taker/Bryan, Cena/Sheamus/Ryback, Cena/Bryan/Kane, etc, this should be fairly easy. It showcased the shit out of what The Shield can do which is perfect for a Wrestlemania where they almost got lost in the shuffle. DOUBLE TRIPLE POWERBOMB!!!

- Battle Royal started off pretty slow but once the initial 5 or 6 went out it got good. The Fandando spot with the whole crowd Fandangoing was great. Cesaro was on fire the entire match though. The Swiss Death Dolph took was deadly. Kofi's spot was really interesting, once again impressive as fuck. Cesaro lifting Big Show and tossing him over the ropes is a career defining moment that looks like the beginning of something big.

- Bray Wyatts entrance was awesome and it really fit the Louisiana vibe they were going for. Bray looked fantastic in this, despite losing. With Bray, it's not about wins and losses. It's about manipulation and mental torture. He got to Cena multiple times in the match. The crowd singing along with Bray was nuts. Really good atmosphere. Once again, no problems with Cena winning here and I don't think this is over.

- The Streak comes to an end. Still can't believe it. But this match unfortunately wasn't up to the par of Taker's last seven Wrestlemania matches. He just kind of looked off during this one. Makes me wonder if he just knew it was time to hang it up. It wasn't a bad match, but it wasn't up to the standards we know. But it certainly is a moment we'll all remember. Hope Taker is ok, read he was rushed to the hospital after.

- Good call of them putting the divas match in between. Let the crowd recover a bit. AJ winning surprised me, figured this was an easy way to move the belt, but good for her.

- Main event was one for the ages, imo. Bryan selling the arm like a goddamn champ the whole match, even with the subtle things. The Batista Bomb/RKO through the announce table was brutal. Trips interfering and taking the sledgehammer was great. A few ridiculously close near falls at the end that had me on the edge of my seat. Some real parallels to the WM 20 match. Bryan finally winning was such a feel good moment.

Ratings:
Bryan/Trips - ****1/4
Shield/Corp - ***
Battle Royal - ***
Cena/Bray - ****1/4
Taker/Lesnar - ***1/4
Divas - *
Bryan/Batista/Orton - ****1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fucking epic.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Going to go back and watch the matches again. Won't take long since there's only Bryan/H, Shield/KaneLaws, Cena/Wyatt, Brock/Taker, and the main event. 

Since the show was already up on the Network immediately after it ended, I went back and watched Trips's entrance again (GEEK, but whatever), and it's so awesome. I read that the girls up there were all from NXT - Alexa Bliss, Sasha Banks, and Charlotte (Flair's daughter). Also watched the 3 count from Lesnar/Taker like, seven times. The thing to watch is everyone's reaction. Everyone in the joint expected Taker to kick out at 3 and the way people jumped out of their seats (at least in view of the hard camera) is just something else. Then once Brock and Heyman leave and Taker is left in there by himself, it seems like he wipes tears a couple times, and he knows he's this is really his last ride, so to speak.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I've asked in the Network thread but nobody replying.

My friend registered an account on WWE for the network but when he clicks "buy now" it just takes him to the same page over and over. How does he get to the payment stage??

I can't remember how I did it. It's driving us mad!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> As funny as it sounds, above all else, this is another thing that left me satisfied with the show. As an Orton mark, I remember an interview he did a couple of years ago where he said his one last goal is to main event Wrestlemania in a show-stealing match (after how WM25 flopped). So the one thing I've wanted to see for a while is him in the actual main event and thankfully, it happened this year. And once again, he was set-up for failure due to the after-effects of the streak but this time, it wasn't enough to keep the main event from being bad!
> 
> I also give Batista props because even though I never jumped on the hate bandwagon, he's really started shaking off the ring rust since roughly a month ago and his performances have generally improved. And to actually have him tapping out? I was shocked, marking out and also the Orton fan in me was happy that he was protected for a change. No doubt this will lead into Orton's rematch with Bryan, either on Raw tonight or for Extreme Rules.
> 
> I thought it was a bit of overbooking with HHH/Stephanie interfering but after that ending, it only made the victory that much sweeter. Now it's rewatch time! :mark:



See I think in regards to the Main Event 3way, the Attitude Era style overbooking was actually done extremely well. Did you hear how much the crowd picked up afterwards? Everyone thought Trips coming down meant curtains for DBRY, but him fighting them off the way he did was fucking spectacular. Definitely added, rather than subtracted, to the match. I really feel as though last nights triple threat for the WWE WHC has to go down as a top 5 match in Mania History for the WWE title. So well done, and Bryan finally got his moment in the sun. Loved all the subtle call backs to the WM 20 triple threat. 

I'm gladly eating crow after last night. Hunter was amazing, Orton was amazing, Batista wasn't bad, Bray delivered against Cena, and the event as a whole was just so much fun to take in. I can't even remember the last time I was as invested in the outcome of a match as I was for that main event last night. Probably all the way back to WM 20 Benoit/Trips/HBK or NWO 2004 Brock/Eddie was the last time I cared that much. Well done WWE, keeping the title off Bryan at HiaC and not having him win the Rumble ended up paying off. You totally had me fooled.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*So..... that was..... something.

Show was terrible I thought but I expected it to be which softened the blow. I don't think there was a match I'd call above average quite honestly but then again I don't think there's been a Mania match since HBK/Taker II that I'd care about ever watching again. I guess Punk/Jericho was good but that's all I can think of and that isn't something I care about ever watching again.

Tag match was really long, almost needlessly long. A year ago Swagger was wrestling for the WHC at Mania, Ryback was feuding with Cena coming out of Mania and Axel was a Heyman guy working with Hunter for a bit. A year is a long time. Add the fall of the last 2 WHC's before Cena were afterthoughts in a midcard Battle Royal to that as well. Dorada got a spot and it looked terrible. Los Matadores is a gimmick that would probably make me a very hateful person if I had to watch them every week. Cesaro barely did anything in this either. Finish looked kinda bad and Cesaro taking the pin even with what happened after was silly. At least Cesaro got to win the Battle Royal and the finish to that was brilliant. Rest of the match was awkwardly bad. Like there's hilarious bad and then there's just uncomfortable bad. The Battle Royal was uncomfortable bad. I spent all match looking for my man JTG and couldn't find him which made me sad. Big E got eliminated before Tyson Kidd by Fandango so he's in for a big push soon once he loses the belt of death. Poor Sheamus. Kofi spot was actually pretty great I thought and better than his last few Rumble saves. Doubt it would have looked better if he landed on his feet. 

Opening was fine and Hogan being a crazy old man made me enjoy it. Was a shame that they basically confirmed Austin and Rock would be there as they would have been sweet shock appearances. I'd still rather see this then .... whatever the alternative was. Del Rio vs Big E I guess. 

Bryan/HHH was MOTN I guess but I wouldn't put it any higher than ***. It was ok. Steph was amazing and whatever she was wearing was brilliant and almost topped Renee's dress on the pre-show. Bah gawd. Hunter wasn't enough of a dick for me. It was like he was so focused on doing his spots that he forgot to add in any character and crowd work. Plus he's very bad at catching Bryan off dives and it looked like he barely broke Bryan's fall off that needlessly dangerous senton spot that nobody remembered after the show most likely. Finishers finishing a match is just voodoo at this point and you can tell that nobody expects the match to finish on the first finisher by the crowd reaction to the first finisher of every match. This did what it needed to do but nothing more.

Shield match was fun and booked as well as it could be. Kane/NAO getting in nothing was odd but worked. Shield need to be higher up the card than this to have any chance at really getting over big as babyfaces too. This will probably happen and it won't work if it does but I fear them making The Shield really corny Cena esque babyfaces and losing a lot of what makes fans like them. 

Cena/Wyatt was kinda good and kinda strange. I dug the story on paper but the execution was very corny and felt like a bad dramatic piece of acting accompanied by wrestling rather than music. Modern day wrestling fans make me a very resentful person. I guess most people will find the Wyatt singing/cheering cute but I just wish they'd play along just for once and boo a heel even if they dig him. Bray losing doesn't really hurt him I don't think because this match wasn't that huge and the damage can be corrected pretty quickly but it was a finish that helped nobody whereas Bray winning could have been a big boost for him going forward. "That's not who you are" or whatever the ref said was hilarious. Standard barricade spear spot too.

Taker/Brock was awful and I'm glad everyone saw it this year and not just me. Crowd couldn't get into it at all. Ending is. I don't even know. Leaning towards one of the worst booking decisions ever that actually mattered. Brock can't benefit from it, Taker's legacy takes a MASSIVE hit and bigger than I think people will realise until 5 years down the line. Taker can never wrestle at Mania again now imo. I can only assume Taker decided this was his last match and that he wanted The Streak to end with his career regardless. If WWE knew that and chose Brock then it's stupid so I can only assume Taker made the call after the match was made. In which case really Taker should have gone until 31 and let someone benefit from ending it. Apparently the theory crew are out in full force claiming that Taker changed the finish mid match because the match was going bad and apparently there's this point where Taker talks to Brock and Brock looks shocked at something. That might be the funniest thing ever if that's true. Not that I think it is. Finish was just a disaster and I'd love for Dan to explain why he thinks it was the right call because you might say something that makes sense in favour of it. Most importantly though it killed the crowd for Danielson's big win. I always figured they'd taint it in some way but this was a really extreme way of doing it either directly or indirectly. 

Divas match. Bleh. 

Main event wasn't a good match in any way. Orton's half of the table spot might have been even stupider than the Taker finish. Crowd were obviously just in shock from Taker losing and couldn't really ever get fully invested in this. I was the same. I didn't care about the match before anyway but Taker losing just took me out of the show completely. I guess now Danielson will get an ok title run being stuck with pretty poor guys like Orton and Batista until dropping it come Summer and then going back to where he probably would have been if Punk stayed and Batista worked as a babyface. Which is good news for Sheamus I guess.

Also no CM Punk chants during the show iirc. Which I think is kinda interesting.*


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)




----------



## Jof (Nov 29, 2012)

LMFAO @ Seabs review. WTF dude! You're expectations must be really fucking high to call this show "terrible". Stay watching the indies or TNA brah.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

The only Punk chant I can recall was just after the table spot in the ME. At least I think.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Shepard said:


> The only Punk chant I can recall was just after the table spot in the ME. At least I think.


There were a couple, but that one was definitely the loudest.

Also, just to give Cal another reason to hate Rocky, think about this... if Rock had wrestled at WM30 like it looked like he was going to up until the Raw after WM29, Lesnar wouldn't have ended the streak.

Edit: Also, any tweets on someone who bet on Lesnar and made a fortune?


----------



## Jof (Nov 29, 2012)

According to this report, Brock was the last minute favourite



> The Undertaker was taken to a local New Orleans hospital via ambulance after last night's WWE WrestleMania XXX due to the fear that he suffered a concussion and a possible neck injury. F4WOnline.com reports that the last word was that Taker was expected to remain there overnight for observation.
> The apparent injury had no bearing on the finish of the match, which ended exactly as planned. The injury is believed to have happened early in the match when Undertaker took a bad fall off a single leg.
> 
> *Word apparently got out about the finish about an hour before the match, as Brock Lesnar went from a massive underdog to the favorite on gambling sites.*


The betting sites probably made a fortune.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wonder where Cal is now?


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Jof said:


> LMFAO @ Seabs review. WTF dude! You're expectations must be really fucking high to call this show "terrible". Stay watching the indies or TNA brah.


*Don't watch TNA or 2014 Indies. Keep trying. :hendo*


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Mixed feeling son the show, but STARS are the only things that matter.

Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H: *****
The Shield vs. The Authority: *** but still *FUN.*
Battle Royal: **1/2 (CESARO)
Bray Wyatt vs. John Cena: ****1/4
Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar: **
Divas Invitational: (AJ/10)
Daniel Bryan vs. Batista vs. Randy Orton: ***1/4

Fuck the haters, the opening with Hulk, Rock & Austin had me smiling from ear to ear for the whole duration.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Mania 30

4 way tag-***1/2
Bryan/HHH-****
Battle Royal-**1/2
Wyatt/Cena-***1/2
Shield/Outlaws & Kane-*
Taker/Brock-***
Divas-1/2*
3 Way-****1/4

Probably the most eventful mania in the last decade. Match wise it was very entertaining if only Brock and Taker could've delivered a better match to justify the shocking outcome.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taker not having a MOTYC in his last match.


----------



## antoniomare007 (Jun 24, 2007)

Damn Seabs. You couldn't enjoy that show? You are my dude and all but man, if you can't have fun watching that then I don't know what it will take, aside from a Extreme Rules 2012 type of show I guess.

I agree there were no real classic matches but I haven't been some emotionally invested on a wrestling show since I was like 12. The opening segment, HHH/Bryan, Cesaro lifting Big Slow and winning the Battle Royal, the biggest mindfuck I'm ever going to have with a wrestling match in Brock ending the streak (the closest we'll ever get to Koloff beating Bruno) and a fantastically overbooked triple threat to crown Bryan's quest...hadn't have that kinda fun for a wrestling show in forever.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Renee's dress on the pre-show was moment of the night anyways, nothing could have possibly topped that. Taker had a lot to live up to.


----------



## TakersStreak22 (Apr 4, 2014)

The Hitman said:


> Taker not having a MOTYC in his last match.


Ain't his last match do idk Wtf made u say that


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

To say this was, imo, the best WM since 24 is an understatement. Absofuckinglutely surreal doesn't make it justice either. It was, in terms of sheer final emotion and memorability, a complete 360 loop from last year's Mania. And that wasn't even as bad of a show as it's made out (well, sort-of). As a pro-wrestling fan, this is an event I'll never forget.

Usos/Americans/Rybaxel/Matadores - *** (Kinda spotty and sloppy at points, but entertaining enough to be given it's due. The We The People/U-Sos shout-off was pretty cool.)

The Hogan/Austin/Rock meeting was kinda spot-on. No better way to kick-off the 30th WrestleMania I guess.

HHH/Bryan - ****1/4 (MOTN right here. Despite the flaws like the constant DUH's by Haitch, no denying his dick heel work was pretty awesome, and so was the almost brilliant shoulder work and ending.)

Shield/Kane & NAO - ** (Squashes ain't getting better than this. Glorious for what it was in all honesty.)

Battle Royal - **1/4 (Clusterfucky more often than not, but the Final 6 or something was pretty good. Cesaro's moment of glory was great, and hate him or not, Kofi's spot was probably the best thing "he" (more Cesaro than anyone) ever did.)

Cena/Wyatt - ***3/4 (I had no faith in this when first rumored in January, but I regret. I didn't like the ending for obvious reasons, and I digress how Cena hitting Wyatt with the chair would've been much better, but still, enjoyed a lot the storytelling, more especifically Wyatt's side of the game.)

Taker/Lesnar - *** (Definitely the worst Streak match since the WM 22 Casket match, but ironically, it had not just the most shocking moment in Streak history, probably the most shocking moment in WWE history. Words cannot describe the emptiness I felt when I saw that "21-1" on the tron. This is the one moment that I will never take off my head for as long as I'm a wrestling fan. Well, on the long term that is. Thank you Undertaker. RIP Streak. I bet Cal is on suicide watch right now.)

Divas - Didn't fucking care after THAT. May watch later.

Orton/Bryan/Batista - **** (How is it possible they made me temporarily forget about Taker/Lesnar's outcome halfway into this match is beyond me, but not only that, but this being the most unpredictable match of the night on paper - I didn't discard Batista winning at all - I legit thought it was over more than once. It did drag when they were trying to force the Orton/Batista one-on-one meetings, but when Bryan was on stage, it always rocked. And him winning the title? Phenomenal.)


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

antoniomare007 said:


> Damn Seabs. You couldn't enjoy that show? You are my dude and all but man, if you can't have fun watching that then I don't know what it will take, aside from a Extreme Rules 2012 type of show I guess.
> 
> I agree there were no real classic matches but I haven't been some emotionally invested on a wrestling show since I was like 12. The opening segment, HHH/Bryan, Cesaro lifting Big Slow and winning the Battle Royal, the biggest mindfuck I'm ever going to have with a wrestling match in Brock ending the streak (the closest we'll ever get to Koloff beating Bruno) and a fantastically overbooked triple threat to crown Bryan's quest...hadn't have that kinda fun for a wrestling show in forever.


*It's probably because I'm not fully invested in Danielson winning the belt in the Wrestlemania main event. That and I look for different things in matches than WWE offers right now. If I had faith Danielson winning meant something in the long term and that they were actually putting long term stock in him then I'd probably appreciate the moment more but they've conditioned me to not have that sort of faith in the result meaning anything in the long run. That's why I'm not fully invested in it. 

The ending to Taker/Brock was definitely emotional and probably the most shocking thing kayfabe wise I've ever seen in wrestling. Shocking doesn't equal good though. Like if this was someone like Reigns or even Cena ending The Streak then I'd be more invested in it ending but Brock's not even gonna be around full time to really milk it so it feels like "that happened now move on". *


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Still can't get enough of the opening segment :mark:


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Hogan actually drank the beer lol


----------



## antoniomare007 (Jun 24, 2007)

Seabs said:


> *It's probably because I'm not fully invested in Danielson winning the belt in the Wrestlemania main event. That and I look for different things in matches than WWE offers right now. If I had faith Danielson winning meant something in the long term and that they were actually putting long term stock in him then I'd probably appreciate the moment more but they've conditioned me to not have that sort of faith in the result meaning anything in the long run. That's why I'm not fully invested in it.
> 
> The ending to Taker/Brock was definitely emotional and probably the most shocking thing kayfabe wise I've ever seen in wrestling. Shocking doesn't equal good though. Like if this was someone like Reigns or even Cena ending The Streak then I'd be more invested in it ending but Brock's not even gonna be around full time to really milk it so it feels like "that happened now move on". *


Damn man . I'm not trying to diss you or anything but I hope you are finding some wrestling you really enjoy lately. I've read some of your New Japan reviews and it seems you ain't having much fun with that product either.

ps: I told you Strong BJ was gonna fine with Kazuki :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ok, some random WM XXX notes as I watch the show.

Hogan promo. LOL. Fucks up about 6 times in 30 seconds.

Austin! 

Rock? Bah.

SLURP SLURP GOBBLE GOBBLE. They just suck each other off for 15 minutes.

HHH Vs Bryan. Said weeks ago this should open the show.

STEPHANIE. Holy FAPTACULAR. 

Great match! HHH finally did what was best for business; made Bryan look like a bizallion *insert your currency here*. Some good arm work, plenty of unique/rarely used holds and submissions.

Stephanie, other than looking FAPTACULAR on the outside was great at taunting Bryan and cheering on her husband.

PEDIGREE KICK OUT :mark:.

KNEE TO THE FACE :mark:.

BRYAN WINS!!! Totally expected Bryan to get beat down afterwards though. Should make his victory in the main event that much sweeter.

The Shield Vs The Old Age Outlaws & Kane time. LOL at Shield interupting the Outlaws. Anyone else see their interview segments on WrestleMania Today over the last few days? Really cool stuff.

JAW BREAKER LARIAT :mark:. Love that Ambrose has started using that.

Wow, crowd are fucking DEAD for this early on, even with Reigns breaking people in half. Disappointing, thought they'd at least go ape shit for THE SHIELD. Maybe bryan wore them out?

SPEAR TO KANE.

DOBLE SPEAR TO THE OUTLAWS.

:lmao at Ambrose tagging in, then immediately tagging in Rollins.

DOUBLE FUCKING POWERBOMB BY REIGNS :mark:.

Holy shit lol, THE SHIELD just ran through the old bastards in about 2 minutes. Best way they could have done it I guess, because who wants to see Kane and the Outlaws go for 10+ minutes in 2014 lol?

Fun, and done the best way possible. I'm happy lol. REIGNS.

DANGEROUS DANNY DAVIS :mark:. Best WM special appearence EVER.

Huh, no surprises in the battle royal. Was expecting maybe some random legend or something to return for a few minutes before being eliminated. Kofi and Cody steal Rey and Morrison's RR spot where they hang on to the ropes and fight. Looked shitty though.

NOOOOOOOOOOOO! Brad Maddox eliminated . He was my pick. Bah, Henry and McIntyre gone too. Someone really sucky is gonna end up winning this aren't they?

HOLY FUCK at that Kofi spot. I've often wondered why people have never done that before with the steps. Kofi might not be all that bad.

CESARO in the final 2 with Big Show. Come on WWE, do it, give CESARO the fucking win. PLEASE.

YES! YES! YES! CESARO PICKS UP THE 987987LB BIG SHOW AND SLAMS HIM OVER THE TOP ROPE TO WIN THE ANDRE THE GIANT MEMORIAL BATTLE ROYAL!!!

Wait... Bryan won the opener so he main events the show. Shield Vs Old Men lasted about 2 minutes and was a squash for the Shield. Now Cesaro just won the battle royal. WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH THE BOOKING TEAM?!?!

Man oh man, Bray Vs Cena. HE'S GOT THE WHOLE WORLD, IN HIS HANDS. In terms of "wrestling" (aka HOLDS AND MOVES~!), this was basic as shit, but it wasn't about that in the slightest. Tremendous character work from Bray, and Cena trying to fight with himself to stay as the "Hustle, Loyalty and Respect" guy rather than a MONSTER was ok, but eh, I wasn't buying into it too much. I guess the fans being totally against Cena prevented it from really making an impact.

Cena unleashing his inner monster on Harper and Rowan, almost to prevent himself from getting DQ'd by doing it to Bray, was at least a good way to go about it. But this match was totally BRAY'S match. Guy was awesome. Doing that freaky upside down spider thing to stop a 5 Knuckle Shuffle, taunting Cena throughout the match, playing up to the crowd who were behind him, and when he was sat holding Cena's head and singing "He's got the whole world, in his hands" I kinda :mark:.

Bray giving Cena a chair and trying to sacrafice himself was :mark:.

:lmao at the referee. "THIS IS NOT WHO YOU ARE, DON'T DO THIS". Cheesier than everything HBK did in the WM 28 HIAC.

Oh, the booking team is back to normal. Cena wins lol. But at least this loss hasn't damaged Bray. I think he still comes out a winner. Great match. Fuck me this WM is kinda ruling so far .

:mark: Undertaker Vs Lesnar time. 

What... what just... I don't... but... I uhhh... Brock just... I mean Undertaker just... *head explodes*

Ok, ok... wait... how... what?

The Streak. Is. Over. Wow. I mean just WOW. I absolutely did not see that coming AT ALL. 21-1. If Undertaker retires now then I might just give up on wrestling .

Match itself... was probably the worst streak match in years honestly. Had no life to it, the fans were utter shite (like they have been most of the night so far, useless twats lol), and nothing really happened until they started trading finishers.

But props to Undertaker for actually letting the streak end. He's a pro and he knows that ending it was probably for the best. Lesnar is awesome, so IF WWE can run with this, then it'll be great. But with Lesnar being part time I'm not sure he was the right pick. Also... this totally fucks up a potential Cena/Undertaker match .

Still in shock.

Divas match next? After Undertaker just lost I'm not in the mood for watching a bunch of women try to wrestle, even if AJ is in there. HOLY SHIT AJ RETAINED :mark:. Well that's something at least.

So The Streak actually ended, right? I mean I didn't fall asleep and imagine it, right?

:lmao at Paul Orndorff with that moustache :lmao.

Piper and Mr T :lmao.

Undertaker is actually 22-0 yes? My crazy mind making me think he lost :lmao. :|

:lmao at Bob Backlund :lmao.

WWE WHC match. God I hope Orton is motivated for this one. Bryan gonna need all the help he can gets with Batista involved in this, and anything less than a motivated Orton is gonna mean Bryan had to carry 2 twats on his shoulder. The winner of this should keep the belt until next WM and challenge Undertaker to try and break the streak BECAUSE IT'S NOT OVER DAMMIT .

HHH and FAPTACULAR STEPHANIE are back with Scott Amrstrong to try and screw Bryan. Stephanie can screw me any time looking like THAT.

SLEDGEHAMMER TO HHH~! Wow, this whole thing is building up to a finish... but there is still 17 minutes left? Fuck me. I don't think I wanna sit through another 17 minutes of Batista and Orton.

POWERBOMB INTO A NECKBREAKER THROUGH THE TABLE~! Well that was an awesome way to take Bryan out of the match at least. Better than a fucking suplex like HHH and HBK did to Benoit 10 years ago lol.

BRYAN IS BACK THANK FUCK. Totally been skipping through most of this btw lol. I just cannot contemplate watching Batista and Orton one on one.

TAP OUT BATISTA! TAP OUT BATISTA! YES! YES! YES! YES! BRYAN WON! BRYAN WON! BRYAN IS THE NEW WWE WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT MOTHERFUCKING KING OF THE WORLD CHAMPION!!!!

The fuck was that random woman and kid that came into the ring at the end lol?


----------



## antoniomare007 (Jun 24, 2007)

His sister and niece.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ahhhh. Would have been nice if the commentators had at least said something lol. Thought he'd dumped that Bella Slut and got with someone who already had a kid for a split second :lmao.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Well, we know Cal's alive.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

ArnoldTricky said:


>


Would have been me tbh! Thank god I'm lazy...

I had hazy star ratings in mind while watching but they've completely escaped me now. All that was going through my head was ohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygod???? ohmygodohmygod etc. Which was kinda annoying, because I wanted to be fully there for Bryan's victory, and I wasn't. In any other circumstance it would have been one of the most fulfilling things to watch but I was not there for it.

I know I had the actual streak match at **3/4 though. Which is incredibly annoying to be Taker's last match. Cena/Wyatt fetched **** for me too.


DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Ahhhh. Would have been nice if the commentators had at least said something lol. Thought he'd dumped *that Bella Slut* and got with someone who already had a kid for a split second :lmao.


Not Bryan's fiancee.


Sir Digby Chicken Caesar said:


> Fuck the haters, the opening with Hulk, Rock & Austin had me smiling from ear to ear for the whole duration.


Who could possibly hate on anything as GOAT as that???


Seabs said:


> *I guess most people will find the Wyatt singing/cheering cute but I just wish they'd play along just for once and boo a heel even if they dig him.*


Normally I'd agree, but besides that the crowd were very good for cheering/booing the other guys, and actually, it really fit into the story of the match in a really neat way. They kept calling Wyatt "the false prophet" and his whole thing is that he can brainwash the masses etc. So having them 'under his control' opposite hard camera created this really cool moment where it was like, well they've all fallen to him. How long now until Cena falls too?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Show would've been better with more :renee. DAT DRESS :homer


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I don't mind admitting that I just watched some of the pre-show simply to see if Renee Young's dress was as good as people said. Erm...the answer is yes! She looked HOT.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Well, hangover aside, THAT WAS THE GREATEST FUCKING WRESTLEMANIA OF ALL TIME. From start to finish, the show was brilliant. Everything clicked. HOGAN AUSTIN ROCK :mark: BRYAN :mark: SHIELD ROUT :mark: CESARO :mark: BRAY FUCKING WYATT WITH DAT GOAT ENTRANCE :mark: ORTON WITH THE PERFORMANCE OF HIS LIFE :mark: BATISTA TAPPING :mark: BRYAN AGAIN :mark:


BROCK FUCKING LESNAR IS THE GOD OF EVERYTHING :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:

Know I'm late on this but been in several states of unconsciousness over the hours that followed Mania and only just coming to.

I should watch it again later. gonna read this thread back to laugh at the people who didn't like it first (i know there's a few of you out there).

IT'S OFFICIAL GUYS

WRESTLEMANIA XXX BROKE STAR RATINGS

HOHENHEIM OF LIGHT


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> Well, we know Cal's alive.



This might seem weird, but the very first thing I thought of when I saw Hunter making that bad ass entrance at WM 30 was "Either HHH, Evan, or Starbuck are gonna have that a their new sig or avatar by tomorrow morning, count on it". Thanks for not letting me down, I have to admit that was so bad ass. Hunter was just bad ass in general, I haven't enjoyed watching him in the ring that much since his 2008 match with Jeff Hardy at No Mercy. He was just ruthless with that arm/shoulder work. He even LOOKED physically better than I've seen him look in over a decade. Gone were the over inflated tits and slight gut, he was just totally SHREDDED. I wouldn't mind seeing this Hunter work more than once or twice a year, something I'm absolutely amazed to hear myself saying.

Seabs- I don't mean this in a condescending way at all, as I normally agree pretty much categorically with your posts and reviews. But I kinda feel bad for you. If you couldn't have fun watching that show last night, I don't know what in the modern age of wrestling will ever do it for you. You had Danielson's fight with Trips in one bad ass match to be recognized as the A+ player he really is, the cementing of Bray Wyatt as a future mega star-he was just AMAZING in that match with Cena. Then you had the single biggest shock in the history of wrestling-Takers Streak ending to Brock Lesnar. Granted the match wasn't up to Takers normal standards, it was still "good", nowhere near "bad" (I gave Taker/Brock ***1/2, HHH/Bryan ****, Cena/Wyatt ****, Batista/Bryan/Orton ****). Finally you had the main event, which was roughly 100 times better than I expected. Bryas was just phenomenal, Randy was GREAT, and Batista wasn't bad or anything. Those two false finishes in the end, with Randy almost winning and Batista almost winning, nearly made me throw up. I was THAT convinced that Bryan was getting screwed. I haven't cared that much about the outcome of a match in over a decade-since Eddie won the title from Brock. The whole event culminated in Bryan fucking Danielson standing tall, both titles raised, while confetti falls from the ceiling. This was storybook shit. I loved it, just completely loved the whole event. Gotta crack my top 5 for favorite Manias, off the top of my head only 19,17,24, and maybe 21 would top it.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Didn't I tell you Dragon's winning both matches, motherfucker? Say it!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So I did watch the Divas match, I guess *1/4 makes it justice. Surprisingly, it wasn't as bad as I suspected it would be - it was an entertaining clusterfuck, and "entertaining" is quite the incredible achievement for any match with Eva Marie in it.

So, can we say that WM 30 is easily a top 5 PPV of the generation alongside MITB 2011, SSlam 2011, Extreme Rules 2012 and SSlam 2013? We certainly can, right?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Hitman said:


>


This is EPIC levels of GOAT. 

Just when I thought my love for HHH couldn't get any stronger... :hb


----------



## Jammy (Jan 3, 2012)

You will never have your NXT harem undressing you

What is the point of living?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Wait were those NXT divas? I thought they were random models


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Well, hangover aside, THAT WAS THE GREATEST FUCKING WRESTLEMANIA OF ALL TIME. From start to finish, the show was brilliant. Everything clicked. HOGAN AUSTIN ROCK :mark: BRYAN :mark: SHIELD ROUT :mark: CESARO :mark: BRAY FUCKING WYATT WITH DAT GOAT ENTRANCE :mark: ORTON WITH THE PERFORMANCE OF HIS LIFE :mark: BATISTA TAPPING :mark: BRYAN AGAIN :mark:
> 
> 
> BROCK FUCKING LESNAR IS THE GOD OF EVERYTHING :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:
> ...


Basically all of this minus the hangover part.

edit just saw your rep to me. COUNT ME IN :mark:


----------



## Mr Joe Perfect (Jun 16, 2007)

Srdjan99 said:


> Wait were those NXT divas? I thought they were random models


That's the definition of most NXT divas sadly.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> Wait were those NXT divas? I thought they were random models


One of them is Ric Flair's daughter.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

CESARO

HE'S GOT THE WHOLE WORLD, IN HIS HANDS

REST HOLD

YES.

my mania review


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HHH's entrance was so GOAT. Lost my shit when TIME TO PLAY THE GAME hit. And Jesus Christ how fuckin good did Steph look? About to re-watch Bryan/H. Completely satisfied with how my dream match delivered.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wwe.com/shows/wrestlemania/30/wwe-fans-react-to-undertakers-streak-ending-photos

That little kid. 










Didnt realise you were there Cal.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Can a Trips mark provide some insight (Evan, Starbuck, Odafin, TLK, etc): is it just me, or did Hunter look better last night than he has in over a decade? I'm not talking strictly about ring work, although that's definitely part of it. I'm mostly talking around physically: dude looked fucking SHREDDED. Just beastly, little to no body fat, and he was just downright barbaric with that arm/shoulder work on Bryan. I'm a big fan of the Trips I saw in the ring last night, on 2000 levels of greatness.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yep. I even commented out loud to my dad (another Trips mark) how great he looked physically as he made his way to the ring. I think part of what made it look like he was better in the ring is that this is the first match he's worked as a heel since like 2006. That's when he's at his best, and it doesn't surprise me that it shown brightly during that match.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

*Triple H vs Daniel Bryan - Winner Goes to the WWE WHC Match* 

Triple H's entrance :mark: This music :mark: That garb :mark: When he takes the headpiece off, and that evil look :mark: Will probably mark at this entrance for years to come. Triple H just looking at Bryan with that dickish smirk before starting off is great - showing complete disrespect and just knows that he is about to end Bryan's fairy tale. Bryan kicking H's when he offers it then catching H off guard with the rollup. Might just be me, but seeing H take the side headlock takeover from a guy so much smaller is amusing. Might just be me. Bryan's offense on H from the ring to the outside worked, but he pretty much missed the senton from the top. H shouldn't have probably taken more of that. The arm work to me is terrific, because it's different than the stuff we usually see. H driving the arm into the announce table after Bryan fights out of the Pedigree attempt looked nasty, same with the side suplex with the arm barred on the ring apron. God, Stephanie is such a great a bitch heel during this. Reaching Heyman levels of troll in my opinion. Such a great control sequence, going from the chicken wing to Bryan fighting out, but H locking in the crossface, and even though Bryan reached the ropes he utilized the 5 count by cinching up extra hard before letting go. Trips telegraphing Bryan's back flip off the turnbuckle was great - another example of him actually being The Game in this match. Tiger Suplex :mark: Good God that clothesline from Trips out of the corner was so nasty looking. Steph marking for it :lmao Crossface again off the countered-diving headbutt :mark: The roll through attempt but H keeping it locking was a cool callback to WM XX, but in reveresed roles, so to speak. Bryan countering into a rollup then locking in his own :mark: Would have liked to see H at least tease a tap out. He did do a nice job of selling it while being locked in the hold. Bryan's usual comeback was great, of course, and the crowd getting behind as expected was still nice. Trips catching Bryan with the spinebuster countering the running knee :mark: Bryan kicking out of the Pedigree :mark: The counter of the second Pedigree attempt :mark: H keeping his fingers locked :mark: Bryan landing on his feet off the suplex attempt and hitting the running knee for the win :mark: :mark:

This match is so great, but I do kind of agree with Seabs that it seemed a bit like Trips was so focused on getting his offense in and going through things, that he wasn't as big of a dick heel as he should have been. Almost not at all. It didn't take away anything I thought from the actual match, but it sure would have added a lot. Rewatch rating - *****1/4*​


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Maybe people will take it easy on the guy for a while. He put Bryan over as cleanly as possible and let him deck him in the face with his trademark weapon later on. I need to watch this match again. 

Edit that review


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Mr Joe Perfect said:


> That's the definition of most NXT divas sadly.


:rock5 Showing you clearly know nothing about the current state of the NXT divas division


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH needs to absolutely 100% STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM TV for a LONG arse time now for me to give him props tbh. He bored us shitless with his crappy Authority shit, now he put over Bryan and let him have his moment, so LEAVE IT ALONE and be gone for a while.

I SEE YOU TEXAN.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

We saw a few weeks ago when H did his beat down on Bryan that he was just jacked. Easily the best shape he's looked in years. Looked a bit thinner, especially in the head :lol 

What I also didn't say in the review was that I felt this was easily Trips' best technical wrestling match in probably 5-6 years. When he's not trying to make things an epic war (like the Mania match with Brock last year, WM 27 with Taker), things go very well. Of course, having Daniel Bryan across the ring from you doesn't hurt. The pace last night was just terrific as well. Never thought it dragged at all.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Can a Trips mark provide some insight (Evan, Starbuck, Odafin, TLK, etc): is it just me, or did Hunter look better last night than he has in over a decade? I'm not talking strictly about ring work, although that's definitely part of it. I'm mostly talking around physically: dude looked fucking SHREDDED. Just beastly, little to no body fat, and he was just downright barbaric with that arm/shoulder work on Bryan. I'm a big fan of the Trips I saw in the ring last night, on 2000 levels of greatness.


I think he looked pretty good in 2008 too. During the DX reunion time, he had a gut throughout the year but then he got injured and came back in better shape. Really noticed the difference when I watched his entrance for WM24. But otherwise, yeah, this is the best he's looked in years.

Just got done rewatching Bryan/HHH and it got even better this time. My stream died briefly last night right when they traded suplexes so I didn't even catch the double germans by Bryan until now. (and only saw HHH's tiger suplex via recap)

Now I'm gonna check out the main event again. :mark: On another note, am I the only one who was able to get over Taker's streak ending when it was main event time? I was still in shock by the time he finished walking and so I took the obligatory "piss break" when the divas stuff was on to pour some water over my face and come to terms with what I had seen. By the time I was back, I was fully into the main event and thankfully, all three gave us a hell of a match!


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

*Pre Show* - **1/2
*Bryan/Hunter* - ***1/2
*Shield/Authority* - *1/4
*Battle Royal* - **
*Cena/Wyatt* - ***1/4
*Taker/Lesnar* - ***
*Divas* - 1/2*
*Triple Threat* - ***3/4

Never in a million years was I expecting the main event to be my favourite match. But never in a million years was I expecting the streak match to transpire that way..

Weird how I consider it a thoroughly 'meh' event yet there's 3 moments I will never forget. For better or worse.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I think he looked pretty good in 2008 too. During the DX reunion time, he had a gut throughout the year but then he got injured and came back in better shape. Really noticed the difference when I watched his entrance for WM24. But otherwise, yeah, this is the best he's looked in years.
> 
> Just got done rewatching Bryan/HHH and it got even better this time. My stream died briefly last night right when they traded suplexes so I didn't even catch the double germans by Bryan until now. (and only saw HHH's tiger suplex via recap)
> 
> Now I'm gonna check out the main event again. :mark: On another note, am I the only one who was able to get over Taker's streak ending when it was main event time? I was still in shock by the time he finished walking and so I took the obligatory "piss break" when the divas stuff was on to pour some water over my face and come to terms with what I had seen. By the time I was back, I was fully into the main event and thankfully, all three gave us a hell of a match!



That's pretty much what I did. I sat in stunned silence until Taler finally made his way to the back, while my girlfriend kept asking "What's wrong? Did someone get hurt? NO ONE DIED DID THEY?! Why aren't you answering me? Chris, are your crying?" And I just kep staring straight ahead. When they were getting ready to start e divas match, I poured myself a cup of coffee, lit a cigarette, and just sat outside for about 10 minutes letting all the emotions and shock wash over me. When I walked back inside I heard the first few strings of Randall's old theme, my ears perked up, and just then it hit me that that the WWE title match was about to start. When Bryan finally came down, I was fully engaged again. Like I said before, not since NWO 2004 and WM XX have i cared about the outcome of a match as much as I cared to see Bryan finally win last night. Just awesome. I'm going back and watching all 4 of the big matches from last night as soon as I get home.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Hunter was awesome last night. From viciously attacking Bryan's injured shoulder to looking a bit surprised Bryan was putting up a hell of a fight, he did a great job. I also loved the contrast between the two's entrance. Triple H having a huge stroke job with his elaborate King of Kings entrance with the throne and the women bowing at his feet, showing everyone that he is the best to ever step foot in the ring (at least in his mind lol) and no one could ever match him to Bryan humbly smiling, basking in the moment of being in a high profile match at the biggest show of the year, galloping down the ramp chanting "Yes!" along with 75,000 people (an amazing sight), representing to common man. I love the contrast between the two and it worked beautifully.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ideally, the streak would have never been broken but since Taker himself has wanted to end it for years, I'll just accept it and not dwell on it too much. I can also turn the negative into a positive. In this case, I like Brock and he's one guy who can end it without me questioning their brains. I'd much rather that happen than some "young guy" ends it and becomes a career heel who might flop going ahead or even worse, someone I can't stand.

I was about to mark out when I heard the opening to "Burn in My Light" but then they switched to the live performance which I thought was pretty good too.

And the outcome was so perfectly booked here. I'm not even as crazy about Bryan as most others but I really wanted him to win. The excitement was in the air and it was only the right decision to give him the moment. The title was damn near holding Orton back at this point and would have just ruined the memorable moment had he retained following an already disappointing outcome in Taker's streak ending. When that happened, I was 100% that Bryan was going to win but still had that feeling of paranoia that Batista was walking out champion. Specially when he threw Bryan out of the ring to cover Orton following the knee. But even more pleasing, they had Orton be the first guy to kick out of "the knee that beat John Cena" and he wasn't the guy that took the fall. As good was the Benoit mark in me fully approving the identical finish with Batista tapping.

P.S. Is Wrestlemania _0 always the night of the hard working wrestlers? At 10 you had Bret Hart closing the show as champion, 20 had Benoit and 30 has Bryan. Who will it be for WM 40?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Can a Trips mark provide some insight (Evan, Starbuck, Odafin, TLK, etc): is it just me, or did Hunter look better last night than he has in over a decade? I'm not talking strictly about ring work, although that's definitely part of it. I'm mostly talking around physically: dude looked fucking SHREDDED. Just beastly, little to no body fat, and he was just downright barbaric with that arm/shoulder work on Bryan. I'm a big fan of the Trips I saw in the ring last night, on 2000 levels of greatness.


Check out the training video on wwe.com of him preparing for this match. Guy is a fucking beast, doing super box jumps at 44 years old with 2 torn quads. He trained like a madman for this thing and I just have to say that that entrance is almost my favourite part of the whole night. I marked like a complete and total idiot. I need to see it back on TV though. Just fucking awesome lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, that entrance even surpasses his WM22 entrance for me. That gif someone posted a few pages back :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Only fitting i upload this:  

*Cain the Undertaker vs Mario Mancini (Superstars 12.15.90)*

TV Debut on WWF Superstars of Wrestling. 
Taped: 11/19/1990, 3 days before the Survivor Series Event. Aired: 12/15/1990
Billed as 'Cain The Undertaker'

x1mlesc


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

My sig though :hhh2


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Yeah HHH looked in great shape, loss some weight too.



Choke2Death said:


> Now I'm gonna check out the main event again. :mark: On another note, am I the only one who was able to get over Taker's streak ending when it was main event time? I was still in shock by the time he finished walking and so I took the obligatory "piss break" when the divas stuff was on to pour some water over my face and come to terms with what I had seen. By the time I was back, I was fully into the main event and thankfully, all three gave us a hell of a match!


I think I looked up at my TV 3 times during the divas match, sat hunched over in total shock/disbelief.
Took a few more minutes during the main event before I forgot about it.

Got reminded again when I went to WWE.com to look at pics of Bryan's win, and plastered on the main page " R.I.P The Streak is Dead".
Yeah can't forget that now lol.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Spring Stampede 1994 is coming on the network at 4:30 and I haven't seen it before :mark: 

My mania review wont be posted until Wednesday night at the earliest. I want to wait till RAW is over tomorrow to write it and I have a bunch of shit to do tomorrow


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

This is probably not the match I expected to be writing a review on after the show ended, but as it appears to be the most unappreciated/under-appreciated of the big matches, here's a try. And pardon me if I'm a little wordy but the details here are essential if this match is to be sold for everything it could be.

Undertaker versus Brock Lesnar was anything but the heavily-built up climax one would have expected for the most glorified, historic record in the history of wrestling. Following battles of legendary proportions with Shawn Michaels and Triple H and a personal grudge-match against the cult phenomenon known as CM Punk, Brock Lesnar came like a force to feed the numbers for the streak.

And he would have done little more if he'd faced the Undertaker in all his glory. Despite the theatricality that hid the weaknesses, the ease with which Brock broke through his offence on the go-home episode of RAW should've alerted us to the fact that the Undertaker was the Undertaker in name alone. And yet we were fooled, fooled into believing in the phenom's ability to wind back time at the stage known as WrestleMania.

I've rewatched the match twice, initially only for the moment of no return, but I couldn't separate the moment from the match and ended up watching it whole. And secondly for this review.

Pragmatism was the word on display from the Undertaker's side. From the moment Paul Heyman realized how Taker would set up for WrestleMania, Brock had won. The initial exchange is fun for me, reminiscent of how he fought against Batista inside Ford Field, but that was a different man against a different beast.

Brock's attempts at establishing control were thwarted in the early going, and you could see that Heyman had expected it to unravel that way. But all he could do was trust his client to push on. Eventually Undertaker made the mistake that would cost him. One mistake. A couple of years ago, he might've had room for it. The dive at 25 comes to mind, the tweak of the leg at 26, other smaller mistakes lost among them. But here, a routine, mundane mistake of an ill-timed corner charge was the decider.

Brock in control turned the match into everything Undertaker _feared_ it could be. The adrenaline eventually kicked in as it always does for the Deadman at WrestleMania. An experienced counter DDT gave him the opening he needed. Holding back was a younger man's game and Undertaker couldn't afford it. But when his flurry had ended, Brock was still fresh and he drained.

What next? The one move which didn't require control. Hell's Gate. From this point on, the match speaks for itself. Undertaker couldn't take the upper hand like he usually does and only got his shots in when Brock made mistakes, the likes of which he could no longer afford to.

Yes, you can argue that the pace or the structure isn't what you've come to expect of a streak match. But they came against wrestling greats where pace wasn't needed (in the case of Michaels, Hunter and Punk) or when he was in better shape (as in the case of Batista and Orton). Today, he HAS to be a pragmatist. He HAS to keep Brock Lesnar from ending the one thing that's left for him.

Truth is, this might be true even outside of the story. The man beneath the name could simply have believed that pragmatism was the only way he could get through this match and not have it end him entirely. This was no accident the match turned out the way it did. It was a conscious decision and it was evident.

The moment of the pinfall is surreal, the most surreal moment I've witnessed as a fan. To explain it would be imprecation.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just finished HHH/Bryan in full, as my network was fucking up during the match, but yea Awesome awesome stuff, dont feel like writing a review so I'll just share my thoughts. Thought it was excuted and flowed very nicely, Steph added to the match 10 folds. I loved HHH slow and methodical apporach to this match and it shows he should NEVER be face ever ever again if he wants to compete. Great win

As for the rest of Mania

* CESARO :mark: was my pick to win, and him lifting Show was out of this world
* No hyperbole, the divas match was a top 5 WOAT candidate, only a hand full match worst in history 
* Streak ending is still shocking to me, I've had a day to kinda of get over it but I truly believe it should have ended last yr or year before if it was going to end

Cena/Wyatt was odd, started off well, loved Wyatt on his knees "HIT ME CENA !!!" thought that was awesome, match should have focused on Cena vicious side, him going crazy and doing thing he never did before


ORTON ? Burn in my light ? :mark: nooo... 

Highlights :

Bryan and his secret lover at the end

Bret Hart throwing up the KLIQ sign 

Black undertaker fan


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

antoniomare007 said:


> Damn man . I'm not trying to diss you or anything but I hope you are finding some wrestling you really enjoy lately. I've read some of your New Japan reviews and it seems you ain't having much fun with that product either.
> 
> ps: I told you Strong BJ was gonna fine with Kazuki :side:


*I'm really way down on 2013-14 wrestling tbh. Maybe has something to do with me not watching it on a regular basis for coming on a year now. 

I haven't watched any BJW for like a year now but these Hash matches getting high praise makes me wanna make time to catch up.*


The Rabid Wolverine said:


> This might seem weird, but the very first thing I thought of when I saw Hunter making that bad ass entrance at WM 30 was "Either HHH, Evan, or Starbuck are gonna have that a their new sig or avatar by tomorrow morning, count on it". Thanks for not letting me down, I have to admit that was so bad ass. Hunter was just bad ass in general, I haven't enjoyed watching him in the ring that much since his 2008 match with Jeff Hardy at No Mercy. He was just ruthless with that arm/shoulder work. He even LOOKED physically better than I've seen him look in over a decade. Gone were the over inflated tits and slight gut, he was just totally SHREDDED. I wouldn't mind seeing this Hunter work more than once or twice a year, something I'm absolutely amazed to hear myself saying.
> 
> Seabs- I don't mean this in a condescending way at all, as I normally agree pretty much categorically with your posts and reviews. But I kinda feel bad for you. If you couldn't have fun watching that show last night, I don't know what in the modern age of wrestling will ever do it for you. You had Danielson's fight with Trips in one bad ass match to be recognized as the A+ player he really is, the cementing of Bray Wyatt as a future mega star-he was just AMAZING in that match with Cena. Then you had the single biggest shock in the history of wrestling-Takers Streak ending to Brock Lesnar. Granted the match wasn't up to Takers normal standards, it was still "good", nowhere near "bad" (I gave Taker/Brock ***1/2, HHH/Bryan ****, Cena/Wyatt ****, Batista/Bryan/Orton ****). Finally you had the main event, which was roughly 100 times better than I expected. Bryas was just phenomenal, Randy was GREAT, and Batista wasn't bad or anything. Those two false finishes in the end, with Randy almost winning and Batista almost winning, nearly made me throw up. I was THAT convinced that Bryan was getting screwed. I haven't cared that much about the outcome of a match in over a decade-since Eddie won the title from Brock. The whole event culminated in Bryan fucking Danielson standing tall, both titles raised, while confetti falls from the ceiling. This was storybook shit. I loved it, just completely loved the whole event. Gotta crack my top 5 for favorite Manias, off the top of my head only 19,17,24, and maybe 21 would top it.


*I'm really interested in seeing how people rate this show a year from now when the results settle in and people rate the show without live bias hype (which isn't unfair to do). I think if I was more invested in Bryan winning then I would have enjoyed the show more. Although I still don't think either Bryan match was close to ****+. But it's just hard for me to personally feel like Danielson winning the Title in the Wrestlemania main event is this emotional thing that it should be because I just don't have the faith that it will mean anything in the long term. People got all excited when Ziggler won a year ago and look at how that turned out. Or where Bryan's last main event run was going until circumstances ran in his favour. If Bryan's in the same position going into Mania 31 and guys like Cesaro and The Shield have been truly elevated then I'll be on board with what people seem to be on board for already. They've conditioned me to be wary and not get overexcited about potential change until it's happened (not happening). There's just always signs that they don't want Bryan in this position long term. This is really nothing but Bryan didn't get some special Mania entrance last night despite it being his show yet Hunter did and so did Bray (who they always seem much higher on evidenced by facing Cena at Mania within his first 12 months). Hunter's entrance was fucking fantastic mind. I'd really love Hunter if he didn't say a load of stupid shit on the mic and was more like the Hunter we've had this past few weeks where he's purely focused on selling a match and an opponent and going ruthless heel rather the shit we got between Summerslam and Elimination Chamber.*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS said:


> Bret Hart throwing up the KLIQ sign


:shocked: When was this lol?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Seabs said:


> *I'm really way down on 2013-14 wrestling tbh. Maybe has something to do with me not watching it on a regular basis for coming on a year now.
> 
> I haven't watched any BJW for like a year now but these Hash matches getting high praise makes me wanna make time to catch up.*
> 
> ...




I totally get where you are coming from. You are absolutely right to fret, I'm the sucker who got hooked again, the sight of seeing Bryan Danielson, 5'8, 185lbs, indie darling, and oh probably the best wrestler in the world since 2006, yes that Bryan Danielson, close out WrestleMania 30 with confetti falling, holding not one, but TWO WWE world titles high in the air. To say it was surreal is like saying seeing Taker lose was mildly surprising. That is to say, calling Daniel Bryan's "standing tall" finish to last nights show surreal is the understatement of the century. Even though 2013's booking and Creative was downright atrocious for the most part, they managed to make me forget all of that because I got that one moment. That one time when I could think "this guys is not only the best wrestler in the world, he's the most deserving of this opportunity, and he's the WWE champ". How often in the History of the WWE has both the best wrestler AND the most deserving held the world title? Three, maybe four times, total? (Benoit, Austin, Eddie, HBK off the top of my head). 

Im holding out hope that Bryan has the title atleast until Summerslam. That's my hope. We will see.

Oh and I think WWE intentionally didn't give Bryan a special entrance. One, because he was coming out twice so you can't give him a special entrance once and not the other time, and two because like someone said, Bryan is supposed to be the common man. Leave the theatrics to Triple H and Bray, Bryan is about WRESTLING.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@ ZEP

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2lbgEI6hF5H1J6DPti&start=1234


20:31 mark
:mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I think he looked pretty good in 2008 too. During the DX reunion time, he had a gut throughout the year but then he got injured and came back in better shape. Really noticed the difference when I watched his entrance for WM24. But otherwise, yeah, this is the best he's looked in years.
> 
> Just got done rewatching Bryan/HHH and it got even better this time. My stream died briefly last night right when they traded suplexes so I didn't even catch the double germans by Bryan until now. (and only saw HHH's tiger suplex via recap)
> 
> Now I'm gonna check out the main event again. :mark: On another note, am I the only one who was able to get over Taker's streak ending when it was main event time? I was still in shock by the time he finished walking and so I took the obligatory "piss break" when the divas stuff was on to pour some water over my face and come to terms with what I had seen. By the time I was back, I was fully into the main event and thankfully, all three gave us a hell of a match!


Took me from the end of the Streak match until around the entrances of the main event to recover. Honestly very good placement with the divas match. Gave people time to reflect.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS said:


> @ ZEP
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2lbgEI6hF5H1J6DPti&start=1234
> 
> ...


WFT face was Backlund pulling? :lol


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Mania thoughts, C&P from somewhere else....

really thought this show was actually great. Being serious 100%. Like Welsh I find it near impossible to collect my thoughts after watching a show live, especially one like this with so many moments that I loved and also some that completely mind fucked me. I've re-watched Hunter/Bryan and Cena/Wyatt today, but can't bring myself to re-watch the main event just yet, and not because I thought it was bad, but because watching it live was unlike any wrestling match/moment I've ever watched live before.

I thought Hunter/Bryan was fantastic, and far better after re-watching it. The atmosphere was absolutely tops and the Bryan support was off the chain. I actually feared people would cheer Triple H here, especially after his entrance which was AWESOME AS FUCK. But no, they stayed loyal to Bryan and it made the match that much better. Hunter was actually really good imo, or at least far better than anyone could have ever thought he would be. I really dug Bryan's shoulder being used as a way for him to control the match and make it interesting. I agree with Seabs that he absolutely wasn't dickish enough, because that could have made this even better. Bryan was on form with his selling here, he looked great with his quick flurries of offense especially towards the end with the two dives which was a great sequence. I liked the submission stuff, I LOVED everything that happened leading up to the Pedigree and then everything that happened after it until the finish. I would have liked more hate for sure, but what they did was top notch and had me fully invested, especially the second time. I really dug the Pedigree nearfall tbh, if only because part of me actually thought Hunter might have the audacity to put himself over, despite me knowing in my gut that they'd do the right thing. I love how they've protected Bryan's knee, has anyone ever kicked out of it? Absolutely a great match.

Shield match was a fun squash and nothing more but that's for the better. Would easily rather watch what they did than have a dull and nothing NAO and Kane control stretch, fuck that for a laugh.

Battle Royal I didn't pay attention to at all until it was down to the last 4. The finish was fucking amazing. Cesaro is not human. Awesome that he won and he has to be made after this. The man is a star and possibly a Demi-God too.

Cena/Wyatt I didn't know what to think of watching it live at all. It felt weird in parts, really good in others and then really cheesy at points too. On a re-watch I thought it was actually great, with some amazing visuals. I really liked the story they were going for here, but Cena's acting was so cheesy it was funny and that portion of the match with him trying to control the 'monster' was pretty silly but I enjoyed it. Everything I loved about this came from Bray though. He's Incredible. That spider thing, his control of the crowd, his gestures and expressions and his trash talking are all amazing. But that spider thing. Oh my god that spider walk. The visual of the crowd swaying along as he 'brainwashes' them was so....awesome. I don't know, I get what Seabs and Dan are saying about the crowd but I can't help but be in to the crowd following Wyatt. It just fits. it fits the character and the story and his promos and the way he plays up to it is a thing of beauty. He's becoming one of my favourite guys to watch in the world right now. Might be hyperbole but I don't know, I think he is genuinely that captivating in the ring. I was invested in everything he did in this. Everything after the initial Cena story stuff was just great, apart from the barricade spot which kind of sucked. Finishing run wasn't fantastic or anything either and nobody will have thought that first AA was the finish. I don't like Cena winning either but I expected it so it's fine, despite the obvious fact that Bray winning does infinity times more for everyone involved than Cena winning. Oh well. Good stuff though, and I'd honestly throw about **** at this despite there being obvious flaws in some of the execution of the story. This was the Bray Wyatt show btw. Did I mention that he's awesome? Because he is.

Taker/Lesnar was fucking awful. I won;t write anything about the match because nothing of note happened in it...at all...until the finish....

What. In. The. Actual. Fuck. I've never been so shocked watching wrestling, ever. Just an absolute mind fuck of epic proportions. Baffling. Bizzare. Surreal. And not really in good ways. I don't even know how to put down my thoughts on it. Why? I understand this was Taker's decision because apparently he knew this would be his last match, but if he knew that, and if the WWE knew that, then why give it to Lesnar? I don't understand this at all. The crowd response straight after the three count was amazing to watch, sheer disbelief and confusion, and I know they wanted it to be shocking, but not in the way it was. Nobody thought Lesnar was winning, absolutely nobody, the build was terrible, it felt like a throwaway streak match, the match sucked balls, and then that finish happened and it felt like they did it just to swerve people without any thought as to how this affects anybody afterwards. Is Lesnar even going to be around enough for this to mean anything? I don't know. I don't agree with Dan on this one at all apart from the fact it kind of builds Lesnar back up as a force of nature but even that feels like they just did it try and salvage the shitty job they did with him beforehand. At first I thought the three count was botched or something but then I realised that there was no way all three of them would have botched something that big that easily, and then it wasn't until Heyman and Lesnar started laughing like goons that it hit me. Just the most unexpected thing...ever. It didn't help that nobody in the crowd counted with the ref either, it was utter silence until the three count landed and then the sound of people shitting bricks. WHAT THE FUCK. I said I didn't know how to put down my thoughts on this and that's why this was just an incoherent ramble but yeah, this completely fucked me over.

The main event wasn't doing anything for me at all until Triple H and Stephanie came out and then it got AWESOME and I was into absolutely everything they did. Bryan taking out the authority for good, using the sledgehammer etc, the dive. Bryan did it. He got me in to a match I had no real interest in bar the outcome, and not only that, he did it after The Undertaker lost at Wrestlemania, and he got the crowd back in to it too. Bryan is the best. The table spot was INSANE. Bryan going off on a stretcher and then crawling back in to the match was just awesome to me, it was heroic and idiotic and the exact thing that made the fans love him so much. I was in to every near fall, and not since Punk/Cena MITB have I wanted someone to win so badly. I was almost freaking out towards the end of this, and then when the finish happened I pretty much lost my shit. That was just an incredible moment to me, and I don't understand people not being drawn in to those near falls and Bryans performance and that finish. Moments like that are why i watch wrestling. This felt like all the shit Bryan has been through was worth it to me. Bryan Danielson won the main event of Wrestlemania 30. Maybe I'm just more in to the product than everyone else, maybe I'm more in to Bryan's chase than everyone else or maybe I'm more of a nerd, but that was magical.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I did read Lesnar is not advertised for tonight. Like WFT, it starts already.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Pretty great write up, as to be expected, Bubz. I agree with basically everything but the Taker/Lesnar bit. I'm actually fine with the finish the more I think about it. Sure I was shocked as shit when the ref's hand hit the mat for a third time, but I'm fine with it as long as Taker is (and I'm assuming he's the one who requested it). He looked pretty terrible tbh, and there's no point continuing on just to add a few more tallies to the count. Lesnar winning is fine as long as he's sticking around for a bit longer. Erases the nonsense losses to Cena and HHH (and least he beat HHH twice in return). The rest is on point.

edit Doesn't mean he won't appear.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The night after mania sells itself, they dont really need to advertise much. I guarantee he will be there


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'll be heading to Raw in about a half hour. Every single place you go here in NOLA people are talking about the streak. It's crazy I've never seen anything like it. The city is full of wrestling fans and everybody is so upset about this. Heyman and Lesnar are going to get MEGA heat later if they show. Damn.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Sorry to ask a non Wrestlemania question, but I recall someone here doing a WWE TV Project, and I wanted to know if they (or anyone) could tell me the really fun/good matches that have been on TV in the past month? All I have had time to watch is Shield vs Real Americans and I would appreciate if someone listed some to me. All TV shows if you can, thanks in advance!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Shield vs Wyatts rematch from Elimination Chamber
Bryan/Orton from some Raw
Cesaro/Cena from some Raw

Sorry, I'm bad with dates but these should be easy to find.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Is it safe to say Brock ending the streak is the most shocking moment in wrestling history?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Apparently Sammartino finally losing was huge, though I doubt any of us were around for that. It's definitely the most shocking moment of our generation.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I would say in wrestling history tbh 

beyond pumped for RAW :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I honestly can't think of anything more shocking in the 20+ years I've been watching (though true a lot of moments I didn't see live won't have had the same effect).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished rewatching the triple threat. I'm going all the way to ★★★★½ with this.

Finish still gives me goosebumps and all the nearfalls are just wonderful. I do think they could've eased up on how strong they made Bryan look but considering the past 8 months, I don't mind it and unlike some others, I'm not a miserable prick looking for things to complain about. The inclusion of Triple H's minor interference only added to it and Batista & Orton both had great performances. I did notice that it started off a bit slow with Bryan being taken out temporarily but as soon as The Authority showed up, match picked up, both with the crowd as well as the action. Just non-stop fun action. I like how Orton and Batista were like HHH & HBK ten years ago as they worked together to eliminate Bryan who just refuses to go away. Still cringing at the monitor bump Orton took by the table. Don't know why Batista had to place it by the chairs rather than outside. Bryan with the heroic performance as he refuses to be stretchered away, Orton continuing without missing a step following the table spot and then we finally get all the amazing nearfalls. I legit thought Batista had it when he threw Bryan out of the ring and covered Orton following the knee but no, Orton kicked out and the epicness continued. I knew Bryan had it when he kneed Batista but then to continue with locking in the crossface for the tap out victory. All my vision could see was Benoit having HHH in the center of the ring ten years earlier and for that, I absolutely loved the submission finish.

:clap for Triple H, Orton, Batista and of course, Bryan. They gave us a hell of a show and even though all the other stuff was enjoyed by me, all my focus is on this storyline and the two excellent matches we were treated with involving these guys. Sorry Taker, but I'm actually doing a solid job recovering from the big blow that was the end of the streak. Still going to rewatch the streak match in a few days, I did enjoy it live, though.

Amazes me how Batista and CM Punk saved this show from being a possible disappointment. Punk actually became a martyr by leaving because this not only gave us Bryan/HHH but also Bryan saving the main event from being a flop. And Batista deciding to return led to the huge backlash that caused them to restart their plans. I can only imagine how shit the original plans were.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, that was a great match to end the show. I was surprised I wasn't bored to tears when it was just Orton vs Batista, but they did a good enough job brawling around the outside to keep me entertained. Bryan getting off the stretcher reminded me of Foley @ KOTR 98.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Who had a worse final match, Rock or Undertaker lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kinda wishing I didn't skip through the main event on first watch, but oh well. I'll re-watch it later this week with the rest of the event for a proper ramble/review thingy. Even pre-ordered the event on Bluray. At full price. FULL FUCKING PRICE.

Edit: Rock. At least the Undertaker match had the shocking finish that honestly I still haven't recovered from. Felt weird all day since I saw it .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingLobos said:


> Who had a worse final match, Rock or Undertaker lol


I actually thought highly of Taker/Brock. Rock/Cena II was average at best, so the answer would be ROCK. But we can't even be sure if it's Rock's final match since he might return again.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Kinda wishing I didn't skip through the main event on first watch, but oh well. I'll re-watch it later this week with the rest of the event for a proper ramble/review thingy.


You better get to it! Was looking forward to reading your ramble and then I was treated with your typical "lol I skipped Orton and Batista" bullshit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Is it safe to say Brock ending the streak is the most shocking moment in wrestling history?


Bet your ass it is. Truly fucking shocking. I really hope this isn't the last of Taker, not like that. 

Anyone know when Austin's next podcast is on?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wouldn't have written much anyway earlier, since I was just making random notes every now and then. I shall RAMBLE for real soon though .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

There's no better way for him to go out imo. Proper sendoff tonight and that's it.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I'm still feeling weird since Taker lost.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Edit: Rock. At least the Undertaker match had the shocking finish that honestly I still haven't recovered from. Felt weird all day since I saw it .


I was harsh with my original thoughts on the show but Ive realized something...I haven't gotten down from the "high" of the show.

The opening segment, Bryan beating HHH, Wyatt/Cena, 21-1 & Bryan making Batista tap out.

I don't think I've had this feeling over a ppv in years.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> I actually thought highly of Taker/Brock. Rock/Cena II was average at best, so the answer would be ROCK. But we can't even be sure if it's Rock's final match since he might return again.


I wouldn't quite say it was Taker's final match. I mean it possibly could depending on the severity of his condition but I would prefer an epic build to a farewell match if possible. Highly emotional moments have transpired and are still to come for many long time fans of the Deadman as the end of his career draws near...if it isn't here already


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The brutal ironies behind the streak ending the way it did all had to do with Undertaker being arguably the greatest professional this business has ever had. On one hand, he ended the most iconic accomplishment in wrestling and gave it all to a man that couldn't care less about all of this. All the guys who gave their bodies and their livelihood to this business, and they all fell short to the guy that cares solely about the dollars on the check. 

The other irony behind all of this is that Undertaker most likely wanted to show everyone that nobody is bigger than the business, and the choice of ending the streak in the middle of the card must have been his way of respecting the main event. Unfortunately for Bryan who had arguably the greatest Wrestlemania performance ever, coming out of Wrestlemania, it is Undertaker who is the talking point. The streak was bigger than Daniel Bryan's crowning achievement. I'm sure Undertaker never wanted to overshadow the making of a star, but the fact of the matter is that his choice of ending the streak may have did just that.

The real test is now on Brock. This business has given him everything, and he has comparatively shown no respect whatsoever to it. None. But I guess that's why he's Brock Lesnar. Nobody in any form of art has played the invading monster as well as Brock. Not Vader in WCW/NJPW or Morishima in ROH. Not Ivan Drago in Rocky. Nobody compares to Brock in this regard, because Brock shows even less sympathy than all of them ever had. It's a shame that Cena and Triple H picked up wins against him, but the payoff to all of this to whoever ends up beating Brock down the line will make them into a star automatically. Bryan/Lesnar is the dream match I want, but to be honest, I think I'm fine if Bryan, or even some of my other favorite young guns such as Cesaro or Reigns not becoming the chosen one. I don't know who the chosen one is, but that man will be the man for sure.

Can't wait to rewatch the show. The cagesideseats writeup of Taker/Lesnar was really well done. I'm sure both Bryan matches will go up to *****1/2*. Wyatt/Cena ruled of course. Man, there's no better feeling than witnessing history like last night.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd love for him to go out at Survivor Series. Tis where he debuted after all. WM and The Streak was special and a huge part of his career, but ending where it started would be perfect imo. That was he doesn't have to deal with the whole "win/loss" crap he would at WM, and he could face a "lesser" opponent, like a Sting if he absolutely NEEDED to (though I'd still be against it lol. FUCK STING).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I still have to rewatch the triple threat, but ****1/2 on it? Seems really high... but then again, I do have to give it another watch as on the only watch of it I had, my mind was still on the fact Taker lost.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DANIEL BRYAN VS THE GAME PT. 2 TONIGHT! STARBUCK MUST BE HAVING A SEIZURE FROM JOY :lmao

In all honesty, I don't see how you can say "Brock has shown ZERO respect for this business". Brock EASILY could have gotten by only giving about 50% effort in his matches. With his god given ability and incredible look, 50% easily would have been good enough to get him to the top. But Brock wasn't satisfied with just getting to the top, he wanted to be the best. I don't know how you could argue against the fact that when Brock is in the ring, doing his thing, he's AMONG the best to ever do it. So I think he has shown respect. He puts on fantastic matches, he gives 100% every single time he steps through the ropes. He just decided that having a family and being there for them is more important than having more money and staying on the road. Can't criticize a guy for that. From all reports I've heard, Taker chose Brock to end the streak. So again. I ask. What does Brock "owe" the business?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Think it's more to do with the fact he showed lack of loyalty despite getting everything handed to him. Not only does he leave, he talks negatively about the company during his ufc run. He just needs to be more loyal and stay with the company for the long run. Not just leave and admit it was all for the money.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Wyatts vs Sheamus, Big E and Cena owned. So much fun.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

My god I love this era!

My issue with Brock is that I honestly don't think he's one of the best ever to do it. We usually talk about wrestlers not "owing" anything to others when we talk about guys that dedicated their lives to the business. Brock is not that guy. He didn't give his body to the business. He doesn't give a shit about that. And my point really is that with Brock, unlike anyone else, these are all positives. Because if he did care, then he isn't Brock. That makes everything that much better.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> Think it's more to do with the fact he showed lack of loyalty despite getting everything handed to him. Not only does he leave, he talks negatively about the company during his ufc run. He just needs to be more loyal and stay with the company for the long run. Not just leave and admit it was all for the money.



That's a fair point. I agree, Brock could do with showing WWE a bit more loyalty. I'd like to see him up his contract to 6 matches a year instead of 3 too.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Heyman is just a god on the mic. What an excellent promo. Lol'd at the hogan mention :ti


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Heyman. Wow


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Holy shit. Just got home. They're doing Bryan/HHH II tonight?! I'm in dream land.

My WrestleMania thoughts later after I re-watch the top 3 matches. Initial opinion is that Bryan/Hunter was excellent and MOTN. Cena/Wyatt was a very good character driven match, bordering on great. The triple threat was a blast to watch and certainly good but the ****1/4-****1/2 ratings seem high to me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Heyman just gave a ***** promo if I've ever seen one. It reminds me of the awesome one he did the night after Summerslam 2012... Only amped up a hundred fold for the far bigger victory.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bad News Barrett push? I fuckin love WWE right now.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Really good match for BNB and Mysterio. :mark: for Barrett win. Shame he won't have this crowd with him all the time.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

LOLRYDER 

Poor Rey Rey 

BUT BNB :mark:


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

surprised by ryder jobbing. really thought he had a chance there.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

AJ/Paige is gonna be such a good feud. LOL at that Warrior promo. Once again, I love this era. And we still have CESARO, The Shield, and Bryan/HHH left.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

And sting perhaps.........


----------



## Lok (Apr 8, 2008)

#BNB


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

If Bryan/Trips is anywhere near as good as what they produced in the Silverdome... :mark:

EDIT: CESARO IS A PAUL HEYMAN GUY :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Saint Dick said:


> If Bryan/Trips is anywhere near as good as what they produced in the Silverdome... :mark:


I see it ending in a DQ with Orton and Batista coming in for a beatdown on Bryan then the Shield come to the rescue but if they can get at least 20 minutes really then they could get a great match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

CESARO AND HEYMAN :mark:


----------



## Nuski (Apr 5, 2010)

Looks like Cesaro's taking Punk's spot. Not bad.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I feel so bad for Seabs. Losing your love for wrestling at a time like this.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

that was so dumb but i don't even care.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I can't wait for the Heyman/Colter promo battles!

Bryan/HHH, if it's a proper match, should be better than their match last night. Much more on the line.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Shield/Evolution please :mark:

Awesome RAW so far. 

Wyatts/Shield on ME. Honestly, was hoping they'd save the rematch for SS but still should be great.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Imagine this main event for Extreme Rules:

*War Games
*The Authority (Triple H, Randy Orton, Batista, & Kane) vs. Team YES (Daniel Bryan & The Shield)

WOWWWW


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Imagine this main event for Extreme Rules:
> 
> *War Games
> *The Authority (Triple H, Randy Orton, Batista, & Kane) vs. Team YES (Daniel Bryan & The Shield)
> ...


I think it be Kane, Orton and Batista vs The Shield

HHH vs Bryan for the title


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

lol at all the folks that bought into the sting hype for tonight.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Evolution reunion has me marking all over the damn place. :mark:

I just want Kane and Bryan moved away from it so it becomes strictly Evolution (with Line in the Sand as the entrance!) against The Shield.

These are exciting times to be a fan. I was preparing to take a break post-Mania but no, the opposite is happening!!!

Good thing I don't give a fuck about Sting.


----------



## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

Was hoping for a triple power-bomb on the Game tonight. Wonder if they are going to book Bryan like this throughout his reign, barely holding on to the title by the skin of his teeth.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

BruiserKC said:


> Was hoping for a triple power-bomb on the Game tonight. Wonder if they are going to book Bryan like this throughout his reign, barely holding on to the title by the skin of his teeth.


It works for Bryan as the fighting underdog though.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Choke2Death said:


> The Evolution reunion has me marking all over the damn place. :mark:
> 
> I just want Kane and Bryan moved away from it so it becomes strictly Evolution (with Line in the Sand as the entrance!) against The Shield.
> 
> ...


Erm Bryan is the most important thing about the feud, it's the reason they have joined back together C2D. Why would you get rid of Bryan, he's going to be facing HHH again then Batista.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

hardyorton said:


> Erm Bryan is the most important thing about the feud, it's the reason they have joined back together C2D. Why would you get rid of Bryan, he's going to be facing HHH again then Batista.


But this is moving on to being about The Shield turning on The Authority. Bryan should just defend his title reign as normal against whoever challenges him. He overcame the villains, there's really nowhere to go from here. Let him move on and The Authority in form of Evolution settle their score with The Shield at Extreme Rules. It's a dream match and we're almost there. No need for adding guys who have nothing to do with the units and have never been members.

Hell, have Kane challenge Bryan's title if they wanna keep them under the same spotlight.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I honestly have ZERO interest in seeing Kane anywhere near any of this. Can't get behind him at all. Would prefer Shield vs Trips/Orton/Batista, with Bryan going against someone else for the belt, but I get that the fued with H needs to culminate first, so I supposed a big 8 man tag would work.

Cesaro going with Heyman should have happened last fall instead of Ryback or Axel, but better late than never. This also confirms that Brock is gone until at least Summerslam, and they just needed a way to keep Heyman on TV.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

WWE should take some tips from No Way Out of Texas 1998. That eight man tag no dq main event from that show was off the charts. Something like that is begging to be done here. Shield/Bryan vs. Evolution + Kane at Extreme Rules in an anything goes all out war.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That was a really enjoyable Raw. I love how things are changing.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

If I don't hear Line in the Sand in the coming weeks I'll be upset.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Definitely feels like a new era. Such a great feeling in the air from DB's World title win to The Shield going against the Authority. I'm really looking forward how this is going to develop in the coming weeks.

Shield/Wyatts III tomorrow! :mark: SO HYPED.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

An eight man no DQ tag for the main event of Extreme Rules doesn't sound bad at all. Then again, it'll be kinda shitty not having Bryan defend the title at his first PPV since winning it. Then again, who gives a fuck? That match will be awesome. But I have a feeling we're gonna get that match on RAW next week anyway.

Btw, how badass does The Shield look in those masks huh? I always liked the idea of them turning babyface. The crowd was always supportive of them anyway and they make more badass faces than they do heels. Now they feel like some special protective unit. I hope they last another 2-3 years as a stable. They're so much you can do with them.


----------



## TheMenace (May 26, 2013)

I'm in love with that New Orleans crowd.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I guess I was the only guy who liked what Undertaker vs Brock was. But I knew it was going to have backlash w/how the match was worked. Slow, not pretty, etc.

That's all I have to say.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Barrett is back! :mark: :mark: :mark:

Highlight of the night for me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

RAW RATINGS:

6-man tag- ***3/4 (SUPER fun match)
Barrett/Rey- *** (Good showing for Barrett on his first night back in the ring)
Rusev destroying Ryder- Priceless
Cesaro/Swagger- **1/2 (Didn't really get a chance to get going and ended pretty abruptly, but a good sign of what they could do)
Heyman's promo on Brock ending the streak- **************

I'm still marking that Barrett is back in the ring, that it looks like we're going to be getting some epic PROMO WARZ between Heyman and Zeb, and we've got a sweet four-on-four build going on in Bryan/Shield vs. Kane/Evolution. I do agree with C2D in a sense that I'd like to just see Shield vs. Evolution, but at the same time, there's not really much else for Bryan to do at this point until Brock comes back to fight him. And I have no interest in seeing Bryan face Del Rio or someone like that that Vince would throw at him that would make Bryan not in the main event match. They need to make sure the main spotlight is on him, so if they need to, they can wait on Shield/Evolution until Summerslam.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Very excited to see what happens with Bo & Adam Rose.

It's about time Rose got called up since he's been in development forever.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

William Murderface said:


> Barrett is back! :mark: :mark: :mark:
> 
> Highlight of the night for me.


The BAD NEWS! Movement is upon us, brothers.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> RAW RATINGS:
> 
> 6-man tag- ***3/4 (SUPER fun match)
> Barrett/Rey- *** (Good showing for Barrett on his first night back in the ring)
> ...


What was the 6 man? I missed the first hour.

Oh and:








THE LADY KILLER WHERE YOU AT BRO?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> What was the 6 man? I missed the first hour.


Wyatt Family vs. Cena, Sheamus, and Big E.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Wyatt Family vs. Cena, Sheamus, and Big E.


"Bray's gonna kill you" chant :mark:


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Regular-Ass Goon said:


> The BAD NEWS! Movement is upon us, brothers.


Let's hope so :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Wyatt Family vs. Cena, Sheamus, and Big E.


I'll try to check that out when I get a chance but knowing me I probably won't.

I'm guessing The Shield pick up a win tomorrow. Either that or it ends via DQ or something. No point in them going 0-3 against the Wyatts now that they're staying together and feuding with The Authority. 

Cesaro/Show on SmackDown too. I'm so down for some more Swiss Superman goodness.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> If I don't hear Line in the Sand in the coming weeks I'll be upset.


This


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I know the hot topic right now is RAW but did anyone see Zayn vs Graves from NXT last week? I just watched it and really enjoyed it from start to finish. ***3/4


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Just wanna let you know Greg that Bryan/HHH was my favorite match


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> What was the 6 man? I missed the first hour.
> 
> Oh and:
> 
> ...


And this

:mark::mark:

edit Tyler :hb HHH was really good imo. All it took was working a match like a heel again. Bryan was his usual awesome self.

DAT GAME ENTRANCE though.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> And this
> 
> :mark::mark:
> 
> ...


It was ok 8*D

But damn that Mania was physically draining, were you bummed Triple H didn't bury Bryan? :lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Nah I was OK with Hunter losing that one. It was BEST FOR BUSINESS :HHH


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

That sledgehammer shot H took though :banderas


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

yeah he got knocked the fuck out :lmao


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Barrett returning to the ring :mark: 

I'm skeptical about whether or not Evolution formally reunites, with the theme and all. Actually don't expect it all. This current era is all about the Authority, even if the main three guys are there. Kane needs to move away from this whole thing, really. 

The actual match - Shield vs Trips/Orton/Batista - that can still happen.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Line in the Sand or GTFO :side:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Line in the Sand or GTFO :side:


Yes. I don't expect or even want them to come out to it on Raw or anything but if they have a PPV match together, which seems likely, LINE IN THE FUCKIN SAND.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I will be very surprised if Line In Sand plays in any capacity.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Kane can GTFO. Shield vs. Evolution, Cena vs. Bray, and Bryan vs. Sheamus please 

Also, I'd like some Line In The Sand :mark:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I have to get caught up on this thread, but:

1)Paul E is a genius, and Brock is GOAT with the facial expressions.

The one criticism would be that Paul went on for too long, but I get the distinct feeling that something was sliced off the show at the last minute, and they told Paul to kill time. He just seemed to be deliberately stalling, IMO. So that part is easily forgiven. Would be forgiven anyway, because the rest was so damn great.


2)Watching the Taker/Lesnar match again, I kind of concur with those "it wasn't _that_ bad" folk. I was in the "not good" camp, but re-watching it again in the context of knowing what happened, it changes my perception a little bit. I view it now as what I think it really was. The older guy trying desperately to hold on and fight through what his body can't do anymore, even if it'll kill him. There was something poignant about it, especially since I could tell that Lesnar was obviously trying to give Taker a chance to get it together. Lesnar works a slow style anyway, but there were points where you could tell that Lesnar really was just buying time to let Taker catch his breath. Standing over him for forever and shit. 

Obviously it's not really fair to judge a match favorably based on this type of shit, but fwiw, it held significance as far as increasing my enjoyment and appreciation factor on second watch. I noticed that the commentators _did_ try to work that all into the storyline (which I didn't notice the first time), so that helped in that regard.

Still not really a great match, because they didn't plan for this aspect to dominate as far as purposeful storytelling is concerned, but me just putting it in that context made me sort of appreciate the story that was naturally unfolding.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I just want Bray Wyatt to debut a new gimmick match against Cena. And War Games would be nice. Extreme Rules is looking good. AJ/Paige. Cesaro/Swagger. Hopefully a ladder match or some other fun gimmick.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Watching Paul's promo again, and I loved Brock's smug, defiant, look & him mouthing "nobody" when Heyman says "Brock Lesnar respects _nobody_."

Would love a Brock monstrous heel run. I don't want it to be one and done by his next PPV appearance.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Wyatt Family vs. Cena/Sheamus/Big E - ****1/4*

Fun TV match that was. I can't wait for The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family.

This new era in the WWE :mark:



William Murderface said:


> That sledgehammer shot H took though :banderas


He put Bryan over so fucking huge at Wrestlemania from the opening match to the end.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I am really hoping the 8 man tag happens at Extreme Rules, I would much rather see that instead of Bryan in a singles match vs Triple H/Orton or Batista.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

That RAW had everything.

except sting I guess


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's a fair point. I agree, Brock could do with showing WWE a bit more loyalty. I'd like to see him up his contract to 6 matches a year instead of 3 too.


Yeah, we'll see Brock work the same dates he has worked so far, people think he has agreed to work more in exchange for ending the streak, nah.

Taker chose Brock, and Brock agreed to do the job as it was Taker's wish, nothing to do with any agreement between Brock and WWE. 

I'd love him to at least work another PPV or two, and I did think he would, or at least stick around a bit longer, but I guess that is it until August, as usual.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Re: the Brock not grateful/should work more dates/no loyalty, etc., debate: I wrote my response to that here.

I initially wrote it here, because it was in response to the interesting debate that was going on here several pages back, but I figured it'd be more appropriate there.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Other than no Sting (which was predictable anyway), that was the best post-Mania Raw I've ever seen. And all I've seen were all good to amazing. It had a mix of the best of the last two post-Mania Raws - the actual quality of 2012 and the crowd of 2013.

Things I've marked out for:
- Cesaro a Heyman guy
- Heyman in general
- Justice League/Wyatts (great match lost in the shuffle)
- Paige
- BAD NEWS BARRETT (fuck the haters :side
- The final segment

And I think this is how Extreme Rules is looking atm:
- Bryan/HHH II for the WWEWHC
- Shield/Orton, Batista & Kane
- Cena/Wyatt II
- RVD/someone
- Cesaro/Swagger
- Paige/AJ


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*WrestleMania 30*

Really enjoyed the opening segment. Nice moment having Hogan, Austin and Rock in the ring together, and Hogan's Silverdome botch made it even better. I kind of felt like a casual fan while watching this if that makes any sense. That sounded weird. Did that sound weird? I think it did. Anyway, cool stuff and a good way to kick off the show.

HHH/Bryan was excellent. I had high expectations going in and I can comfortably say they met them. I've heard the criticism that there wasn't enough hate in the match and while I can see that argument I don't agree with it too much. It could've done with more hate but it didn't need it. Both men's priority was getting the W which made total sense within the story of Hunter trying to keep Bryan down and Bryan aiming to prove that he's good enough. Trips hasn't looked this good in ages but I wasn't surprised. Dude looked in prime condition and he's always been infinitely better working as a heel than a babyface. Speaking of looking good, fucking Steph. She was on fire and I thought her presence at ring side added quite a bit to the match. Triple H's control work was good, targeting the injured shoulder and busting out different moves to keep things interesting. The announce table spot, the hammerlock slam on the apron, the tiger suplex, that wicked clothesline, the chicken wing; he was generally very good on offense and turned in a performance that shouldn't be undersold. Bryan was Bryan. That's starting to become a cliche but really and truly I can't think of much else to say about his performance. High level display from him as per. Thought the final few minutes were great. Dug the Pedigree/counter struggles big time and the abrupt finish worked fine. Post-match stuff was good too. Pure quality starting from H's awesome entrance all the way to the end. I sure as hell won't complain if they have a rematch at some point.

The Shield match was a pleasant surprise for me. I expected them to go at least 10 minutes, which tbHHH (this could catch on) I wasn't exactly looking forward to. Instead they gave us a totally fun showcase squash. (Y)

I had fun with the Battle Royal too. Kofi should wrestle in these matches only. As shitty as the guy is the stunts he pulls off are entertaining and good for a big pop. Del Rio actually looked pretty damn strong in this and had a good showing. Not a big battle royal fan by any means but I'd rather they stick a bunch of guys I don't care about in one match than give me whatever undesirable under-card matches they could've used them in. And obviously CESARO!!! :mark:

I dug the story Cena and Wyatt tried to tell. It won't surprise me if people try to poke holes in the story or if some people just didn't like it but I dug it. I don't think it was the most intricate or well thought out story I've ever seen, not by a long shot, but the character work was very, very good and kept me invested in what they were doing. I think they could have a better match at Extreme Rules if they keep the good character elements intact and have more of an all out physical war than a psychological battle but this was very good nonetheless. Bray was fucking awesome and for the most part I thought Cena played his part well too. Upside down thingy when Cena went for the Five Knuckle Shuffle was super.

Taker/Lesnar... I feel bad for that dude who bet $35,000 on Taker. Biggest shock in wrestling history. Bar none. By far. Just surreal. Unfortunately that surreal moment was pretty much the only good thing about the match. From that perspective it was doubly surprising. Most people on here, myself included, expected this to be MOTN. It wasn't. It was bad. Slow and plodding with very little to get excited about. Disappointing way for Taker to go out if it was his last match. What a moment though.

Skipped the divas.

The triple threat was an absolute blast to watch. WWE overbooking (is it still called overbooking when it's actually booked perfectly?) and drama at its finest. Shit got so real from the moment HHH, Steph and THAT CROOKED REF SCOTT ARMSTRONG came out. Suicide dive to the three of them and sledgehammer to The Game were so satisfying. The Batista Bomb/RKO table spot ruled the fucking universe. Probably the best table spot I've ever seen. And Orton's back got murdered by that TV monitor. Studly effort from him. Batista wasn't good or anything but I'll give him some credit for not being bad enough to ruin things. Bryan, well, he was Bryan.  Awesome main event, awesome moment, awesome Mania. 

D-Bry/Trips gets the MOTN honors for me with the three way not far behind it. So many people bitched and cried and whined in the lead up to WM30. In the end the 'E delivered big time.



Spoiler: Best of 2014 List



1. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Elimination Chamber (2/23/14)
2. Cesaro v Sami Zayn - NXT ArRIVAL (2/27/14)
3. Daniel Bryan v Triple H - WrestleMania XXX (4/6/14)
4. Bray Wyatt v Daniel Bryan - Royal Rumble (1/26/14)
5. Randy Orton v Batista v Daniel Bryan - WrestleMania XXX (4/6/14)
6. Cesaro v John Cena - Raw (2/17/14)
7. Randy Orton v Cesaro v Christian v Daniel Bryan v John Cena v Sheamus - Elimination Chamber (2/23/14)
8. Daniel Bryan v Randy Orton - Raw (2/3/14)
9. Bray Wyatt v John Cena - WrestleMania XXX (4/6/14)
10. Christian & Sheamus v The Real Americans - Raw (2/10/14)
11. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Raw (3/3/14)
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

I wish the next PPV was Summerslam and they could go all out for Shield vs. Evolution & Brock vs. Bryan.  
Now's a great time for the former, but it leaves Bryan too much in limbo since he'll basically have no other opponents and it's too soon to end the authority angle and for him to go off and face others. I do think we'll get Bryan vs. one of Evolution & Shield vs. Kane & other two at Extreme Rules which is kind of a bummer since Kane doesn't belong here anymore. And let's face it, he's already lost to the Shield with about 12 different partners.

And then a full 10-minute Paige vs. AJ match would could be the best divas bout in years (it won't be, but there's no reason it shouldn't).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kane still being in the angle is my favorite thing about wrestling today just b/c of how much it is pissing everyone off.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Is anyone else hoping we get a Nature Boy sighting soon? With all this talk of Evolution, I'm sorry, but it's just NOT Evolution without the Nature Boy. A big part of what made Evolution so great was the Nature Boys ringside antics. You simply can't bring a band back together without all 4 original members. Nature Boy isn't gonna wrestle or anything, but they could definitely use him as a manager. PLUS, how dope would it be for them to reform Evolution, with their eyes set on a Summerslam Triple Threat? After MitB something could go awry, causing a fraction within the group, giving us the dream scenario of a Trips/Orton/Batista three way with Naitch as the ref. Good god!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'd think that, even though it's as clear as water that's the perfect way to go atm, they should save Bryan/Lesnar for WM 31. The ultimate underdog vs. the conqueror of the Streak, WWE World Heavyweight Title on the title. Tell me that wouldn't send chills up your brain :mark:


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Cena/Bryan II at SummerSlam? And we can finally have a proper Shield vs. Evolution triple threat with Bryan moving on to other players. This would probably mean Cena getting his win back and running with the title until Brock's ready to take it from him (Brock/Cena II :mark and Bryan winning the Rumble and challenging for the title. Bryan/Cesaro programme in the meantime to build the animosity between him and Heyman.

A Brock rumble win would simply not work.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That Bryan/Cesaro programme idea I don't like, not because it sucks, but simply because I kinda want Cesaro to stand out and be a legit threat, and not Bryan's roadblock before Lesnar


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Realised that I haven't given my WM ratings yet:

Pre-Show- ***
Bryan/HHH- ****1/2
Shield/Kane&NAO- **
Andre the Giant BR- **1/2
Cena/Wyatt- ****
Taker/Lesnar- **1/2
Divas Match- *1/2
Three Way Match- ****1/4


----------



## Sgt. Pepper (Nov 12, 2008)

Afternoon,

RATINGS!!~~!~!~!11

Opening segment *****

Bryan/HHH ****1/2
Sheild/Kane/NAO **1/4
ARMBAR **3/4 (DAT CESARO LIFT)
Cena/Wyatt ****1/4
STREAK/BEAST *** (***** for the ending)
Divas *3/4
Triple Threat ****1/4 (DAT TABLE SPOT)

Overall mania 9/10 - The best since 17 in my honest opinion. Loved the hell out of it. This is wrestling. This is a new era. Damn Triple H is making some incredible changes to this business. This is the best the business has been for a long time. Think back to how you were feeling that week after the Royal rumble, how everything we loved about this business was falling apart, now look where we are. I didn't think it was possible but hell, This is what it's all about.

Also, the decision to have brock end the streak was incredible, the match was mediocre but it was a big ask for Taker, damnn he looked beat up. Kayfabe wise, Brock is the only man on that roster that can destroy the deadman, but we as a fanbase just saw him as another number to add to the already illustrious streak. The crowd knew it too, hell, how many of you at home missed the 3 count because you were looking at your phone or talking to your buddy because you were convinced taker wouldn't lose to Lesnar, there was no way in hell the 'E would give the win to Brock. "Taker has still gotta face Cena" "Taker will lose to an up and comer in the main event" "Taker will face sting for the streak next year". Nope. Vinny mac doesn't play by our rules, he plays by his. He gave a big fuck you to the smarks and the fans that like to think they know exactly how the business has become. 

Brock winning was, in my opinion, the most shocking moment in WWE history and THAT is how I wanted the streak to go. Not in a big fanfare in the final fight at wrestlemania where the outcome of the streak being broken was an actual possibility because it was being given to an up and coming star. Hell, Heyman was right, he's been making the outcome obvious for the past few weeks but we didn't listen because we were just waiting for next year or the year after that because we were convinced Taker wouldn't lose to a part-timer. 

Well I for one am astounded that secrets can still be kept from us in this day and age. 

KAYFABE LIVES
LONG LIVE THE BEAST.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

DAT RAW. This has been the best Mania week I've been to, just edging out 28. Crowd was rocking and it was awesome! Looks like we came across that way on TV too which is great. So much fun, can't believe it's all over now, damn,

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WM's as they stand imo:

17 > 19 > 24 > 7 > *30* > 21 > 22 > 20 > 10 > 8 > 23 > 28 > 14 > 26 > 3 > 18 > 25 > 29 > 12 > 16 > 5 > 27 > 6 > 1 > 13 > 4 > 9 > 2 > 15 > 11.

Also, HHH/Bryan I'm really going back and forth between ****1/4 and 1/2 after a smooth rewatch, but I'm 100% sure it's only 2nd to Bret/Owen as the GOAT WM opener.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Can someone sort me out a 'Best Of Taker' match/promo DVD Set please?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Forgive me for asking, but what made Wrestlemania 7 good? Is that the one with Savage/Warrior?


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I think I've eased up a little on Brock ending The Streak now the shock has worn off. I think my dislike for it is more how they built it up both before and during the match. It felt more like Undertaker finally lost a wrestling match rather than Undertaker being killed. The match was uncomfortable to watch but it should have been a fearful uncomfortableness. Have Brock just completely mutilate Taker and leave him lying in the ring broken. I know this sounds super corny but Taker's whole gimmick is anyway. I would have had Taker lie there for like 5 minutes while the result settles in, lights go out and Taker's body just vanishes. Kinda like you've just sat through the death and funeral of Undertaker. Any other character it'd be horrible but I think it'd work with Taker. Then Brock looks more like a destruction machine than someone who beat the unbeatable. I get the argument that the build made it as shocking as it could be but the match and the moment would have been so much better if the live crowd actually feared for The Streak like they did vs HBK and HHH. I don't think one person believed Brock was winning and apparently a lot of the crowd thought the finish was a botch according to the Figure Four crew. My biggest concern is still that Brock won't benefit enough from it. If he's only wrestling 3 matches a year with no guarantee he's there 2 years later then where's the value in it? I can agree with if Taker insisted this was it then Brock was as good a choice as any but only if Brock sticks around long enough and frequently enough to make it worthwhile. I know Cena winning and turning sounds like some lame WF shit but I think that would have been better and the timing works with Bryan's rise and the horrendous shape of the heel roster right now.

As for the cheering heels thing I get where Mike is coming from. I love Bad News Barrett and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't cheering for him watching Raw. I just wish the crowd would add to the dynamic more because a crowd that cheers the face and boos the heel makes for a better wrestling match. If you go to a panto then you don't cheer the bad guy because you think the actor is doing a good acting job. Like Dan said, it's like telling the heel that he's not doing his job properly. Yeah cheering Wyatt tells Vince and co that you like him but Vince wants you to boo him so if you boo him isn't that a better way of telling him you like what he's doing? And if you don't like the heel in a go away sense like with Orton or Batista then just give them the crickets treatment and change will happen. Obviously that's a two sided coin though because then you cheer Danielson and that makes Orton look like he's doing his job well. I ABSOLUTELY agree that the heels don't do enough to get people to boo them though. Like everytime I see the dreaded chinlock rest spot and I just sit there and think "why not just stick your leg on the ropes for heat". Nobody does heel shtick like that anymore during matches so nobody cares about WWE matches until the big finish stuff happens. So yeah I think it's a problem on both ends. I also don't think the commentators help by putting over these crowds who go into business for themselves and make them sound cool. Other idiot fans hear this and then just plan to chant for stupid shit because they saw another crowd do it and it got that crowd really over. Like why the fuck chant for Randy Savage during a Sheamus vs Miz match for example. I was listening to Lance Storm talk about this on a podcast recently and I thought he made an awesome point about how disrespectful it is. Not just to the wrestlers but to the fans who aren't inside fans. Maybe some kids are big Sheamus fans and came to see Sheamus and enjoy his match but their enjoyment of the show has been ruined by these idiots ruining this part of the show for them. It's like going to see a play and shouting over a certain story arc you're not into but somebody else in the audience might be into. Yeah you're telling them you don't like it but what about the people that do? I don't think there's a definitive answer in the sense that fans MUST do this at a wrestling show but the wrestling will be much better if the crowd acted like they were at a panto and played along with the show they paid to see.

May as well talk about Raw here too while I'm on it because for once I watched it all. I actually enjoyed Raw more than Mania but that probably had more to do with it being more geared towards what I'm looking for. The WWE PPV match formula is just so over me. I just don't care for it now. It's always the same with the finisher kickouts and the dull middle. Obviously you have anomalies like Bryan/Bray and Shield/Wyatts which I loved because they were a different type of match. Here the guys I want to see got showcased better imo and I dig the TV tag formula more than the PPV formula so I actually enjoyed the Wyatt 6 man more than anything on Mania. I wouldn't say it was a better match than Bryan/Hunter but I enjoyed watching it more. Sheamus would be super over with that inside crowd if they didn't book his character like an Irish Cena and had him work his matches like Cesaro does but as a face. Rowan is seriously really good for a guy everyone says isn't very good. Like I think he's every bit as good as Harper but without a flashy moveset.

Bryan promo at the start was great and super feel good. The doubter in might look at it as WWE still don't trust Bryan to carry a long promo by himself.

Debuting Paige in front of that crowd was really smart with them actually knowing who she was and a lot of Brits there. I thought the angle/match sucked but it got the right reaction which counts the most. Barrett showcase I got a kick out of because I love that gimmick and I know it goes against my whole cheering heels stance but I think it's different cheering goofy heel like him than serious heel like Bray. Rey must be so hated backstage because they keep putting him in positions to be booed. Rey milking the boos was very surreal too.

Summer Rae is awesome and works a heat segment better than no more than 4 heels on the roster right now. I'm not even kidding. Obviously this didn't showcase it but she's a perfect example of what I said before about heels doing heel shtick to actually get the crowd to boo her. And guess how the crowd on NXT reacts to her? Sucks that they've botched Emma too.

Cesaro stuff was brilliant. Sucked that Hogan didn't put him over much but I get why he had to get out of there. I marked harder than I have for anything in a while (including Danielson winning the title in the Wrestlemania main event oddly enough) when Cesaro said he's a Paul Heyman guy and Heyman came out. Awesome pairing if they get the dynamic right. I assumed Cesaro was going face but now he's with Heyman and feuding with Swagger and Zeb. Odd dynamic right now but hopefully they have a good direction for it. Has smashing a trophy ever not got huge crowd heat in pro wrestling?

Heyman/Brock promo was awesome. Heyman was on fire. Now it seems like Brock goes away for a while again though and the momentum of beating Taker is almost immediately cut. I'd love for them to just have Brock lay the gauntlet down to the entire roster now and run through them. All you need Brock for is PPV dates rather than TV dates for this to work. Have Heyman issue the challenge and each month a new guy answers. Sometimes it's just a Mark Henry guy who Brock decimates and doesn't sell anything for and then in between you have a Sheamus or a Cesaro or a Rollins step up and they get put over huge just by getting offence in on Brock and kicking out of some big stuff. Then you have Cena step up and Brock annihilates him. Like their first match but minus the Cena comeback. Cena gets his big spot in like an AA through a table but Brock kicks out at 1 and comes back even more destructive on Cena. Have Brock not just win but truly conquer. Then Brock beats him again at Mania, repeat the cycle and have either Bryan or Reigns beat him at 32. Now I've thought of something better than what will happen though so I've just set myself up to be disappointed when they do something that's fine but could so clearly be better.

Shield angle was brilliant and exactly what they needed to do with them. For as much as I knock WWE booking I think they've got The Shield booked close to perfect so far and this was perfect too as their big turning point. Those skull masks they come down in are so fucking boss too. Shield/Wyatts on Main Event should be awesome but I wish they wouldn't saturate that match on TV so it can be super huge when they revisit it at a bigger show like Summerslam rather than on Main Event with no build or purpose. Guessing Hunter gets the title shot (best option) and Kane/Orton/Batista face The Shield. Pretty good use of The Authority if they go in that direction imo as long as they find a way for Bryan to move onto something new after and move Hunter to The Shield if need be.*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Forgive me for asking, but what made Wrestlemania 7 good? Is that the one with Savage/Warrior?


Yup. That alone would make WM 11 not bad, and that's saying something. Plus: the beggining of the Streak (still can't get over it's end), two kick-ass tag matches in Harts/Nasty Boyz and Rockers/Haku & Barbarian, a good gem in Perfect/Bossman, and Slaughter/Hogan being a decent ME to boot too. 7 was just a brilliant WM imo.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RapidFiyah said:


> how do you guys rate the hell in a cell with taker and brock?


Pretty high. ****1/2 at least for me. Haven't seen it in years.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***** for the HIAC. Loved it more than ever on my last re-watch.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Seabs- great post and I love the Brock idea. The problem is, Brock prolly doesn't wanna wrestle once a month. It's a shame too. I think we have all been looking at Takers streak being broken the wrong way. We are looking at it as the opportunity to create greatness, which is how we would operate if we were booking the thing. I think Taker just wanted the most credible bad guy on the roster to break his Streak so he could "do what's right for business" by putting over a guy as a way of saying thank you for the 17 or so guys who layed down to make the Streak. Also because Taker wanted to respect the tradition of "going out on your back". I don't think he particularly cared whether it was capitalized on or not. He just felt that he wanted to lose, and Brock was easily the most credible guy to lose to. So WWE is stuck with having the Streak broken by a guy who has a contract that states he only wrestles 3 times a year. How can you capitalize on that? You can't. So instead of them forcing Taker to lose to a guy like Cesaro, someone that could capitalize on "breaking the streak", they just instead respected Takers wishes to have Brock beat him. We are all out of our element if we try to criticize Taker for picking Brock to break his Streak. I've made the statement elsewhere we should all just be thankful we got the Streak at all in the first place. Taker is the one who destroyed his body for 20+ years for our own personal entertainment. He earned the right to chose his conquerer. Not everything has to always be about the future and capitalizing on every single opportunity. Sometimes it can just be about the moment.

I gave Taker/Brock NM 2002 HiaC ****3/4 on last watch, second best Cell match ever behind the original.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Seabs- great post and I love the Brock idea. The problem is, Brock prolly doesn't wanna wrestle once a month. It's a shame too. I think we have all been looking at Takers streak being broken the wrong way. We are looking at it as the opportunity to create greatness, which is how we would operate if we were booking the thing. I think Taker just wanted the most credible bad guy on the roster to break his Streak so he could "do what's right for business" by putting over a guy as a way of saying thank you for the 17 or so guys who layed down to make the Streak. Also because Taker wanted to respect the tradition of "going out on your back". I don't think he particularly cared whether it was capitalized on or not. He just felt that he wanted to lose, and Brock was easily the most credible guy to lose to. So WWE is stuck with having the Streak broken by a guy who has a contract that states he only wrestles 3 times a year. How can you capitalize on that? You can't. So instead of them forcing Taker to lose to a guy like Cesaro, someone that could capitalize on "breaking the streak", they just instead respected Takers wishes to have Brock beat him. We are all out of our element if we try to criticize Taker for picking Brock to break his Streak. I've made the statement elsewhere we should all just be thankful we got the Streak at all in the first place. Taker is the one who destroyed his body for 20+ years for our own personal entertainment. He earned the right to chose his conquerer. Not everything has to always be about the future and capitalizing on every single opportunity. Sometimes it can just be about the moment.
> 
> I gave Taker/Brock NM 2002 HiaC ****3/4 on last watch, second best Cell match ever behind the original.


Pretty much this. It was Taker's decision. I doubt if Brock works extra dates or anything like that, or if they will book Brock any different, or give him the title. 

Business as usual..........but he beat the streak.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Raw was awesome. The main event with Shield making the save was fucking epic! Cesaro siding with Heyman and Heyman's promos were amazing. Wyatt Family looked awesome again. PAIGE~! Out of my favorite wrestlers, Bryan, Shield and Cesaro are in incredibly favorable positions. Hope Rhodes, Fandango, Ziggler & Summer Rae move up in the bigger picture.

Edit: Brock/Taker - HIAC - ****3/4.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I recall 8 being just as good, if not better. It's been a while since I watched the three big tag matches at Wrestlemania 7 though. Not a fan of Hogan/Slaughter. Bored me to tears. But it has been a while, and I've learned to appreciate Slaughter's work.

I honestly don't think this monumental shift in the face/heel dynamic that we are experiencing today is a bad thing. People change, and so does wrestling. Going back to old tactics just do not work anymore because we have grown immune to them. Guys like Orton and Batista that people may not like in a so-called "go away" sense are great heels since they can easily transfer their heat on to whomever they face. A heel's job isn't to get booed. A heel's job is to enhance the face's reaction. Bray Wyatt may get cheered, but when in a situation where he's trying to get the face over such as when Bryan attacked him in the cage, the crowd responded aptly. A better example would be CM Punk when he feuded with Ryback in 2012. When Punk made his entrance and did his promos, more often than not, he got loud cheers. There's nothing you can do about that; he's CM Punk. However, when he faced off against Ryback in fight segments and face-to-face interactions, he was so good at playing the heel that he got the crowd to give Ryback insane pops. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it is fine if fans cheer for the heel, especially in this era. The reason for that is that I believe that the heel's job isn't focused on HIM getting a reaction, but rather his opponent getting one. And frankly, many of these heels that get cheered by today's audience do a better job than they are credited.

I do agree that it would be nice to see some old-fashioned heel tactics such as a manager pushing the ropes towards their client when they're reaching for it while in a submission. We do still get some of those tactics though, but people just don't notice them anymore because we have grown more immune. During my Attitude Era watch, quite a few heels (especially HHH) do these old-fashioned tactics, but fans did not care at all. I don't think it's a matter of these guys executing things poorly. It's just that in the 80s, putting on an abdominal stretch while holding on to your partner elicited a far better reaction than it does now. Now what do we do in response to this? The answer is to find new tactics to substitute for old ones that don't work as well. THAT is where heel wrestlers today can vastly improve.

There are still quite a few heels that still have some good control segments that draw heat on themselves as well as on their opponent besides Cesaro, such as Alberto Del Rio, Randy Orton, and Dean Ambrose. We also have some other guys that are getting there, but still can't put it all together such as Titus O'Neil and Ryback. To go back to a small note that Seabs made, Erick Rowan is one guy who deserves a lot more credit than he gets, and his offense is one of those things. When Erick Rowan puts on a chinlock, it looks like he's trying to win instead of rest. His offense just looks so nasty and dirty, and it fits him so well. Find me a wrestler that does a better bearhug than Erick Rowan. Anyone. Ever. My point here is that I do think that we have talents that can play real good heels, but a conversation with Arn Anderson or Chris Jericho will do these guys wonders.

Wyatts vs. Muscle Friends last night: ****1/2*
Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar HIAC: *****1/2*

Not sure if Taker/Brock is my 2002 MOTY, but I can't think of anything outright better.


----------



## Sgt. Pepper (Nov 12, 2008)

wasn't Taker/Angle/Rock 2002? If so, that's my MOTY at ****3/4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, last night's 6-Man Tag was lost in the shuffle of the overall greatness of the show. Really good one at that.

Taker/Brock HIAC is ****3/4 for me, and MOTY for 2002. At least on a high thought. I also have Taker/Rock/Angle around that rating, but it doesn't beat the HIAC for sure.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 10 for 2002 (PPV matches... though I can't think off hand of any TV matches I'd add to it lol):

Rob Van Dam Vs Eddie Guerrero - **** - 5 (Backlash)
The Undertaker Vs Steve Austin - **** - 5 (Backlash)
The Undertaker Vs The Rock Vs Kurt Angle - **** - 5 (Vengeance)
The Undertaker Vs The Rock - ****1/4 - 6 (No Way Out)
Edge & Rey Mysterio Vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle Vs Los Guerreros - ****1/4 - 6 (Survivor Series)
Brock Lesnar Vs The Undertaker - ****1/4 - 6 (Unforgiven)
The Rock Vs Brock Lesnar - ****1/4 - 6 (SummerSlam)
The Undertaker Vs Ric Flair - ****1/4 - 6 (WrestleMania X8)
30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ****1/2 - 7 (Royal Rumble)
Brock Lesnar Vs The Undertaker - ***** - 9 (No Mercy)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

RAW was quality last night. Heyman's promo was one of the best. Cesaro's new direction I'm digging. Barrett's return and win over Mysterio was good, maybe they'll actually do something with him now for the first time in years. Paige debut and title win over AJ was really cool, neat to see a English chick in the WWE, but not only that she was born in the same city as me and she's the same age as me, pretty crazy. So naturally I'm going to root for her. 8*D And the final segment was great. The thought of Evolution reuniting to face vs The Shield is just :mark:. Ironically missed Rusev's debut, but I heard it wasn't anything special.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Perfect time to watch some old Taker matches and moments i think, including stuff i havnt seen in years, or have forgotton about. Like the early Angle matches, or something from the 90's perhaps.



Make me sad though watching them.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Cesaro :mark:

Heyman :mark:

Barrett :mark:

Bryan :mark:

BO FUCKING DALLAS :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Top 10 for 2002 (PPV matches... though I can't think off hand of any TV matches I'd add to it lol):
> 
> Rob Van Dam Vs Eddie Guerrero - **** - 5 (Backlash)
> The Undertaker Vs Steve Austin - **** - 5 (Backlash)
> ...


Matches I think you are sleeping on for 2002:

Eddie vs Benoit Armageddon 2002 ****1/2
Eddie vs RVD Ladder Match Raw 2002 ****1/2
Rey Mysterio vs Kurt Angle Summerslam 2002 ****1/2
Un-Americans vs Booker and Goldust Summerslam 2002 ****
Benoit vs RVD Summerslam 2002 ****
Benoit vs Angle Unforgiven ****

Summerslam 2002 = Greatest WWE PPV ever.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I think I recall 8 being just as good, if not better. It's been a while since I watched the three big tag matches at Wrestlemania 7 though. Not a fan of Hogan/Slaughter. Bored me to tears. But it has been a while, and I've learned to appreciate Slaughter's work.
> 
> I honestly don't think this monumental shift in the face/heel dynamic that we are experiencing today is a bad thing. People change, and so does wrestling. *Going back to old tactics just do not work anymore because we have grown immune to them.* Guys like Orton and Batista that people may not like in a so-called "go away" sense are great heels since they can easily transfer their heat on to whomever they face. *A heel's job isn't to get booed. A heel's job is to enhance the face's reaction.* Bray Wyatt may get cheered, but when in a situation where he's trying to get the face over such as when Bryan attacked him in the cage, the crowd responded aptly. A better example would be CM Punk when he feuded with Ryback in 2012. When Punk made his entrance and did his promos, more often than not, he got loud cheers. There's nothing you can do about that; he's CM Punk. However, when he faced off against Ryback in fight segments and face-to-face interactions, he was so good at playing the heel that he got the crowd to give Ryback insane pops. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it is fine if fans cheer for the heel, especially in this era. The reason for that is that I believe that the heel's job isn't focused on HIM getting a reaction, but rather his opponent getting one. And frankly, many of these heels that get cheered by today's audience do a better job than they are credited.
> 
> ...


*Proof that the first bolded statement is true? I don't recall The Miz working a heat segment like Tully Blanchard and it not getting a reaction. 

As for the second bolded statement I disagree that it's either or. They're both the aim for a heel. If they're doing the opposite then they're not an effective heel right? Bray got himself cheered at Mania and didn't make Cena any more over as a face? Fair to say that Bray failed in his role at Wrestlemania then? But whose fault was it? Bray for not using enough heel shtick to swing the tide or the crowd for not playing along?

I can pretty much guarantee that if Real Americans did that spot and Zeb turned around and provoked the crowd it would get heat because it's easy heel heat to get. Sure maybe the terrible inside fans stand up and applaud their heel work but the casual fans (i.e. the majority of the audience in most markets) will boo the bad guy. Just as they would at the theatre. I'm all for plugging Summer Rae's shtick at every chance but she does 80s heel shtick like that in NXT (a smarky audience if you will) and it gets over and they hate her down there. Their not immune to it. Maybe if a guy isn't doing it well they don't react but that's the wrestler not the crowd being IMMUNE. They will react to it if done right. I guarantee if during HHH/Bryan Hunter grabbed a headlock, pushed his legs back onto the rope and Steph held down on them it'd get huge heat. 

Completely disagree about ADR drawing any heat or having anything resembling a good control segment but that's just my personal bias. *


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Matches I think you are sleeping on for 2002:
> 
> Eddie vs Benoit Armageddon 2002 ****1/2
> Eddie vs RVD Ladder Match Raw 2002 ****1/2
> ...


Ooooo forgot about that ladder match from Raw. That'd make it into the top 10. As for everything else, most of them I have at ***3/4 so they just miss out on a potential top 10 place. Except for Benoit/Angle which is really, really bad. * bad.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I guess Angle/Benoit UF is, like most of their matches, take it or leave it really. Me I'll say I learned to appreciate what they tried to do in their stuff and I bought into the flash of GERMAN SUPLEX TRADE-OFFS. Too flashy no substance yeah, but I can't hate on something that entertains the fuck outta me. Same goes for the RR match in that area.

Cal, wouldn't Rock/Jericho RR make your list either?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Ooooo forgot about that ladder match from Raw. That'd make it into the top 10. As for everything else, most of them I have at ***3/4 so they just miss out on a potential top 10 place. Except for Benoit/Angle which is really, really bad. * bad.



That Eddie/Angle Armageddon match is absolutely tops. Love it. Eddie was in rare form. Well, I shouldn't say rare form, as being the fucking best wasn't rare at all for Eddie from 2002-2005. But he was awesome all the same, think it's every bit as good as their classic at Vengeance.

Rey/Angle I guess I can understand some not being as wild about as I am. Personally, I think it's the second greatest opening match in WWE history, behind only WM X Bret/Owen. It just hits ALL the right spots, from Rey's surprise entrance, blindsiding Kurt, to Rey's senton over the Ref, to the flawless counters and Angle finally catching Rey with the Ankle lock. It's up there for best 10 minute matches ever. They cram so much awesomeness into those 10 minutes, while still having everything make perfect sense for the story they were trying to tell. It was MOTN for me at the greatest WWE PPV ever. Some will disagree with me and say those honors go to Brock/Rock, I just happen to think Rey/Angle stole the show

And I really dig Angle/Benoit Unforgiven. Not nearly as good as their match at Backlash 2001, but probably tied with WM 17 as my second favorite from the feud. In fact, the only match of theirs I flat out don't like is the Judgement Day 2/3 Falls. All the others range from really good to great.

ATF- good call on Rocky/Jericho RR. Personally I take their NM 2001 match for being the best of their series, but that Rumble match was certainly great as well. Think it got **** from me on last watch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

As far as I'm concerned, the second best WWE PPV opener ever, behind fucking obvious Bret/Owen, is none other than Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival 

Then, I would have HHH/Bryan, Harts/Quebecers and Orient Express/Rockers ahead. And only THEN I'd have Rey/Angle in the opener ranks. Still quite high though.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

RapidFiyah said:


> how do you guys rate the hell in a cell with taker and brock?


It's shite. The sad thing is, it was great up until the point where Taker suddenly stopped selling his hand that got fucking SMASHED IN PIECES by Bork throughout the majority of the match. Have a mental block against it. 

And same dudes will bash million other wrestlers and nitpick their selling habits, but they're willing to let Taker slide because he's Taker.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Small rant,

I'm fucking sick of people on here putting Taker down, calling him all sorts of ridiculous things, not knowing jack shit. Probably mostly kids who started watching in 2007. Taker deserves 100% respect for everything he has done, he chose to end the the streak too for crying out loud.

Sorry, just had to get off my chest. End rant.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

The Triple H/Bryan video package might be the best the company's ever done.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> As far as I'm concerned, the second best WWE PPV opener ever, behind fucking obvious Bret/Owen, is none other than Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival
> 
> Then, I would have HHH/Bryan, Harts/Quebecers and Orient Express/Rockers ahead. And only THEN I'd have Rey/Angle in the opener ranks. Still quite high though.



Owned, if we are counting NXT PPV's, which by all rights I guess we should Cesaro/Zayn has definitely usurped Rey/Angle for that #2 spot in my books. Goodness what a freaking match that was. I was really hoping Zayn would get his big win, I guess I understand why they wanted to hold off on it though. I highly, highly doubt that it gets topped for 2014 MotY honors. Only way I see it changing is if they to Bryan/Lesnar at SS. Or maybe if Bryan/Cesaro gets 20+ minutes at a PPV. Even then, only a perfect ***** will beat it, as I have Cesaro/Zayn at ****3/4 and Shield/Wyatt's EC at ****1/2

Chismo- you're WAY off base on Taker/Brock NM. Taker doesn't stop selling his hand. Yes there are a few points when he uses that hand for a punch here and there, I think he might choke slam Brock with it too. But he sells it afterwards. And I think it's some serious nit picking to call a match that great "shite" because of a few punches with a supposedly broken hand. 

Zeppers- tell me about it Bro. I've given up trying to convince these nonsensical idiots about Takers decision being just that, HIS FREAKING DECISION. It makes me sick to see these people say some of the crap they do about him. Taker is pretty much beyond reproach. We should all just fucking respect the guy and pay homage to how great it was o see him wrestle the past 20+ years. But no, we have fans pissing and moaning because they "didn't get what they wanted". We as the fans have a right to voice our feelings, but in this case, we should just be respectful IMO. Show a little class, if we have any.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> The Triple H/Bryan video package might be the best the company's ever done.


oh hey big shock we agree on something else.

That entire 30+ minutes including the video promo package, HHH's entrance and the match were just :mark:


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Hitman said:


> Small rant,
> 
> I'm fucking sick of people on here putting Taker down, calling him all sorts of ridiculous things, not knowing jack shit. Probably mostly kids who started watching in 2007. Taker deserves 100% respect for everything he has done, he chose to end the the streak too for crying out loud.
> 
> Sorry, just had to get off my chest. End rant.


Agreed, although I'd respect him even more if he waited until WM 31 to let someone younger to smash the Streak, someone who could benefit from it tremendously, someone with bigger passion for the business than Bork Laser, someone who's gonna be the cornerstone of WWE for next 10 years.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> The Triple H/Bryan video package might be the best the company's ever done.


I agree, that video package was really fantastic. After seeing how all the pieces came together in a perfect way, I'm asking myself if the company had this idea for Bryan since the Yes!Mania started in 2012


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> I agree, that video package was really fantastic. After seeing how all the pieces came together in a perfect way, I'm asking myself if the company had this idea for Bryan since the Yes!Mania started in 2012



Agreed. My previous favorite was for "The Best vs The Beast" at Summerslam. That video made me mark so fucking hard, and Heyman, gosh he was so good. "Your my best friend" :mark: "I LOVED YOU" :mark: "Without Paul Heyman, you. Aren't. The. Best. In. The. World." :mark:

But yea, seeing Bryan's rise in that package might have topped it. My girlfriend didn't have a clue about any of the storylines heading into Mania, but she completely understood what Bryan was fighting for in that Hunter match after watching the video. So great. THE MONSTER.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> Agreed, although I'd respect him even more if he waited until WM 31 to let someone younger to smash the Streak, someone who could benefit from it tremendously, someone with bigger passion for the business than Bork Laser, someone who's gonna be the cornerstone of WWE for next 10 years.


I can't say I'm 100% on Brock ending it, but it is what Taker wanted so, but if they don't now use Brock properly and it turns to shit and for nothing, the Vince I'm coming for you.

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----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> I can't say I'm 100% on Brock ending it, but it is what Taker wanted so, but if they don't now use Brock properly and it turns to shit and for nothing, the Vince I'm coming for you.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


 Man, I said this earlier: it's really up to Brock whether or not is gets capitalized on. If Brock is willing to show up to more dates and work more matches, I'm sure Vince would love to have him and could definitely come up with something for him. But if he isn't, what, pray tell, is Vince supposed to do?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My favorite video package has to be this:






Regardless of how you feel about the rivalry, they really put it over as this historic match here and the music when they go through their accomplishments is just beautiful.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Man, I said this earlier: it's really up to Brock whether or not is gets capitalized on. If Brock is willing to show up to more dates and work more matches, I'm sure Vince would love to have him and could definitely come up with something for him. But if he isn't, what, pray tell, is Vince supposed to do?


It's a good point. I think when they knew Brock was winning, they should have a plan going forward on how to build upon it, whether that means more dates, or just to book the fucker properly. He beat the motherfucking Undertaker FFS. Give Brock more money to work at least one or two more PPV'S. 

I did think they would start some angle last night regarding Summerslam, but Brock looks to be gone again until then.

If Brock continues to work the same dates, it then becomes how they use him, that us the question imo.

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----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Random review time~

*WWF Survivor Series 1996*
Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin

_So I just watched this for the first time in years, to the point where I can't remember a thing about it other than the winner. In all honesty, this was a Stone Cold showcase, as in this may be one of the best Steve Austin performances I've ever seen, he was fantastic in it. Throwing immaculate punches, simple yet brutally effective work on the throat, working the crowd and selling well for the little offense Bret did get in. I thought Bret did well selling for Austin but I am glad that the amount of Bret being in control was kept to a minimum because the little offense he did get in, quite frankly, was meh, despite Austin selling it well. I liked the opening few minutes of matwork, both men made it seem like a real struggle, which is something you rarely see with opening exchanges like that. I thought the work on the throat/sternum was great with how it tied in to Bret possibly having ring rust and not being in "ring shape" and I adored how when it came down to it, Bret won through not being rusty whatsoever. Fantastic match with a simple structure, great story and a flawless Austin performance. _

**** 1/2


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Brock vs Cesaro at Summerslam (Battle of the Paul Heyman guys)
Daniel Bryan vs Brock Lesnar at WM31 for the Unified Titles 

Book it :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> It's a good point. I think when they knew Brock was winning, they should have a plan going forward on how to build upon it, whether that means more dates, or just to book the fucker properly. He beat the motherfucking Undertaker FFS. Give Brock more money to work at least one or two more PPV'S.
> 
> I did think they would start some angle last night regarding Summerslam, but Brock looks to be gone again until then.
> 
> If Brock continues to work the same dates, it then becomes how they use him, that us the question imo.


Yeah, I don't care if they pay him $20 million, just get him to work at least a few dates every month or something. His current deal sucks and the only person it benefits is Brock Lesnar. Plus they wasted a whole month and a PPV "match" on the Big Show and it wasn't even a proper match.

But all I'm asking for is for them to book Brock vs Orton. Just fucking do it! :cuss:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> Brock vs Cesaro at Summerslam (Battle of the Paul Heyman guys)
> Daniel Bryan vs Brock Lesnar at WM31 for the Unified Titles
> 
> Book it :mark:


Do you think they would do Cesaro/Brock though? I know they are, rightly so, pushing Cesaro, but as they are both Heyman blokes, i'm not sure they will do it, at least not yet imo.

Would love to see it though, oh if only Brock had more dates eh, maybe after he beats the streak......oh wait.

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----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

C2D, if they wanted to do that, they likely would've done it at Elimination Chamber. I don't think that Lesnar/Orton is really in their plans at all.

Though I BEG with all my body parts for them to arrange a Lesnar/Cesaro match somehow. They're both Heyman guys, they're both human machines, they NEED to face off. Please, WWE, PLEASE.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The Hitman said:


> Do you think they would do Cesaro/Brock though? I know they are, rightly so, pushing Cesaro, but as they are both Heyman blokes, i'm not sure they will do it, at least not yet imo.
> 
> Would love to see it though, oh if only Brock had more dates eh, maybe after he beats the streak......oh wait.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


With all the rumours about Cesaro turning face in the future, I'm sure that they can do something so we can have a heel Brock vs a face Cesaro. Heyman can turn on him at MITB or something like that, just like last year with Punk


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Yeah, I don't care if they pay him $20 million, just get him to work at least a few dates every month or something. His current deal sucks and the only person it benefits is Brock Lesnar. Plus they wasted a whole month and a PPV "match" on the Big Show and it wasn't even a proper match.
> 
> But all I'm asking for is for them to book Brock vs Orton. Just fucking do it! :cuss:



I don't know how they book that without turning one of the guys face, which they absolutely cannot afford to do. Either it takes place in a "smart" city, the fans cheer Brock, and he loses his "heel steam" from defeating the Streak. Or it's booked in like St. Louis or another city that digs Randy and it turns him face. Bottom line: WWE is sorely in need of top heels, Randall and Brock are the only true great heels, and Brock is a part timer. Dave hasn't proven himself to be great yet. They need Randy as a heel, and they need Brock to be Brock. I don't see that match happening in the near future. Same goes for Brock/Batista. Don't know how or why they would bookk that supposed "dream match". I want to see Brock working with smaller baby faces so he can work his one of his brutal control segments, that usually results in the best match possible. I think they have to be looking at Bryan as his next opponent. Then maybe Cesaro if he's turned face by then. Same thing with Reigns.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What next for Brock at SummerSlam then? I do not want to see Brock / Batista. Will it be Bryan, and if so, will that mean the belt for Brock already.

Maybe a rematch with Cena. They gotta get this fucking right now.

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----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Going over Cena, somehow getting the belt (not from Bryan), Bryan getting it back from Brock.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Watching RAW atm. Crowd for the opening segment and Wyatt match is insane. The match ruled, so much fun.

Bray motherfucking Wyatt btw. The crowd being so in to him (and the others) is surreal. I don't care for heels getting cheered just because they're heels and it's 'cool', but it's different with Wyatt. The guy plays a cult leader, and the people being brainwashed in to his 'family' is like something from a horror film, like The Wicker Man or something. It's awesome.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taker with that cowboy hat and trench coat entrance again though, real nice touch.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I agree. I also like that his two goons, especially Harper, are getting their share of respect as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Hitman said:


> Taker with that cowboy hat and trench coat entrance again though, real nice touch.


Agreed. Was nice to see him back to a more "traditional" Undertaker this time around instead of the hooded coat (which is still awesome). ALL THE SIGNS WERE THERE DAMMIT .


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Brock/Bryan at Summerslam is a bad idea because a loss at that point really hurts one. I guess you could have Bryan go down with a fight and get his win back later but there's better people for Brock to beat to build him back up (Cena).*


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I'm never one for "getting wins back," but Brock really needs to beat the fuck out of Cena.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, I'm never one for "getting wins back," but Brock really needs to *beat the fuck out of Cena*.


Again.  This time fucking win of course, but yeah i agree with Seabs in its too early for Brock/Bryan, where neither should be losing at this point, and Brock/Cena seems the more obvious way to go.

Unless they try and wrangle Brock/Batista. :argh:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, my bad. AGAIN, but win this time.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Brock/Bryan for the titles at Summerslam
Cena/Cesaro

Paul Heyman guys against the two biggest faces in the company. You could always do Bryan/Brock at WM31 with Bryan ending Brock's reign of terror but I have a feeling WWE is going to give that rub to Reigns.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I still love that Brock/Cena match despite Cena winning.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brye said:


> I still love that Brock/Cena match despite Cena winning.


So do i, i just turn it off before Cena starts his fucking 'speech'. :no:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Nah you guys are right. Worst thing you can do is book a match between 2 people who can't afford to lose. Book Brock/Cena for Summerslam. They could even go one bigger: make it a bad ass gimmick match. Last Man Standing, I Quit, or, if we are REALLY lucky: Hell in a freaking Cell. How awesome would that be?!

For the Summerslam main event, they gotta go with Bryan. But against who? Will Cesaro be ready? Can they hold off on a Bryan/Batista match until then? Maybe a Bray/Bryan rematch?

Or, could WWE remember they have one of the best heels in the world, have turned him face for no reason, and are doing nothing? I'd love to see a Bryan/Henry feud for the WWE title. Book that shit.


Interesting times ahead.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I loved Brock/Cena but fuck rematches. Just give me Brock/Orton and I'm good. Fuck everyone and everything else.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If they want Brock/Bryan, they should wait 'till WM 31 for that to happen.

And speaking of Brock, I surely can't be crazy by carrying around his BADFUCKINGASS theme around in my phone. Seriously, that has gotta be a top 5 theme ever in WWE.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> If they want Brock/Bryan, they should wait 'till WM 31 for that to happen.
> 
> And speaking of Brock, I surely can't be crazy by carrying around his BADFUCKINGASS theme around in my phone. Seriously, that has gotta be a top 5 theme ever in WWE.


I have Taker's 'Ministry' Theme as my message tone 

Watching Taker/Festus atm.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> So do i, i just turn it off before Cena starts his fucking 'speech'. :no:


That finish (+ his annoying promo on Raw the next night where he basically no-sold the entire beating) and the WM22 main event finish are the only two finishes that I cannot stand to watch again. Match up until the finish = (Y), but I can't stomach those finishes. I usually couldn't care less about wins/losses but those two bug the living shit out of me. The HHH/Cena one I can at least tolerate from a business perspective since that cemented Cena as a top guy, but still.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HBK/Hardy from Raw '08. Really enjoyed this one, first time ive seen it.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

The new Warrior Blu ray is actually really good. Kinda wish we could have some insiders who are more impartial to talk about these moments as well.. maybe a future network chow like Legends of Wrestling.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Kabraxal said:


> The new Warrior Blu ray is actually really good. Kinda wish we could have some insiders who are more impartial to talk about these moments as well.. maybe a future network chow like Legends of Wrestling.


I was looking at a DVD Review of the set, and it mentioned alot of promos were included, but after looking at the listing for the set, i can't see any.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

The Hitman said:


> I was looking at a DVD Review of the set, and it mentioned alot of promos were included, but after looking at the listing for the set, i can't see any.


I've noticed a few, cockpit door obviously as well as the WMVI event itself are there and there is one for hte undertaker feud at least. I was more interested in hearing some of the insight from the man himself though and this has been really good at that, though with the format you will either have to sit through segments and matches or fastward.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I am not one to draw alot of attention to myseflf and just like to give analytical, insightful thought giving and taking knowledge, but just thought I would pop in an "eat crow" for the results of the streak match this year against what I have been predicting in several places on this forum. I thought this would be a versatile modern classic, and this sure was an instant classic, but not in the way I intended obviously, as the match quality was quite below not just the supreme standards of these two workers, but average Mania standards period. The wheels have really fallen off for Taker (undersstandably so), yet that doesn't marginalize the awsome run of quality matches he had from WM 23-WM 29. Guy can be very easily argued as the best legitamate bigman worker in wrestling history, but with extraordinary longevity comes decline, and it seems like the tank has finally emptied for the Deadman. To me, this really shows the amazement that Jushin Liger, whom has admittedly lost a step and whom I believe is as old as Undertaker and obviously had to switch his style due to that horrid brain situation, can still from time to time produce a great, decently paced match even as a damn juniorweight


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I wouldn't get too hopeful Bryan still has the belt come Summerslam. If he does then he probably loses it there. WWE usually like a summer title switch and as cool as it would be Bryan isn't a permanent fixture as the #1 guy or even the pretend #1 guy. Bray Wyatt is so getting that belt before the summer is over. 

As for Brock he'll wrestle as much as they pay him to wrestle. If they give him the money he wants to wrestle on every single Raw for the rest of the year then he'll take it. I don't get why they have to have Brock use up 3-4 dates hyping a match where Heyman does all the talking. Just make Brock network exclusive and have him show up every PPV to batter someone. Brock killing Rey in 5 minutes on a PPV is a better use of him than him beating someone up off a Heyman distraction. Annihilating someone in 3-5 minutes is hardly taxing anyway and you still only have a handful of properly worked 5+ minute matches in a year for Brock. As long as he's only working 3 matches a year he's always facing the likes of Cena and being forced to have competitive matches which win or lose don't put him over as someone to be feared for your own safety if you face him. I mean the guy just broke the freaking Streak. If ever there's a time to put 100% of your stock in a guy and make him untouchable it's now. 10 matches a year and then 2 years down the line someone beats him and it's monumental. If Brock just works 3 matches a year and loses at either 30 or 31 it means something but really not to the extent that the guy who beats him has something in an instant.*


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed. They should use him like they did at the Rumble when he completely beat the shit out of Show. He literally didn't have to do anything, and it made him look like a monster.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

EAT. SLEEP. TAKE A MONTH AND A HALF TO WATCH CESARO/ZAYN IV LIKE A NO GOOD WELSH SON OF A BITCH.


*Cesaro vs Sami Zayn, (NXT 2/27/14)*

Tremendous match, which I ought to have watched sooner. Not sure how many will recall, but I'm a huge advocate for clear hierarchies in wrestling. A narrative born out of the respective character dynamics, e.g Flair vs Windham with the wily veteran vs the possibly superior wrestler lacking in the tactical nous to put the resilient champion away. Cesaro's exploits on the main roster obviously dictate he take the lead and work more as the ace Zayn aspires to surpass, and they worked that superbly with the recurring theme focusing on Cesaro continually out-smarting and out-wrestling Zayn when he threatened to put together some momentum. The layout was very smart and littered with callbacks to past encounters, with the uppercut counter to the apron DDT being stellar, and the callback adding that deft little charm to the inspiring aesthetic visual. Enjoyed the way Cesaro mauled Zayn before gradually shifting his attention to the leg, and the limbwork and selling of said limbwork was exceptional. Limbwork can always be a naive ploy when one competitor relies on their speed and athleticism for the bulk of their offence, but I thought Zayn did an admirable job in executing his key offence whilst taking the time to either preface his offence with a clear signal that he was doing so in spite of the admitted pain he'd receive, or taking the time to communicate how the limb negated any chance he had to capitalise on any opportunity he created (typified best by his momentary shake of the leg which allowed Cesaro the time to catch the moonsault and punish him). 

They really did an exemplary job in executing a number of impressive sequences without negating the limbwork to the point the sequences became egregious. The one count spot is a trope I despise in New Japan, but like any common irritable spot, there always remains a possibility said trope can be executed smartly when timed and incorporated at a suitable time. Rather than be tirelessly exposed in countless matches, it's a unique spot in the WWE environment and was timed expertly with Cesaro firstly not getting all of the move, and secondly by Zayn's kickout resembling a stubborn man fighting desperately, whilst selling the ramifications of the impact. A couple of sequences didn't really grab me, namely the exploder transition and the punch exchange after Zayn refused to stay down (the strikes just looked quite off and it failed to capture the image they were going for, but it's a minor quibble), apart from that though I adored the closing stretch which demonstrated how WWE can pull off that cinematic ending they often strive for, whilst doing so in an organic and natural manner. Take notes HHH. I also loved Zayn's visual grimace whilst executing the Koji Clutch, which again was a meticulous bit of subtle selling to allow me to not focus on his use of the weakened leg. The match was inundated with impressive and eye-catching sequences, but the timing and subtle deft touches to compliment and build to these moments were of a very high standard and that's where this match distinguishes itself from matches of a similar ilk that lack the nuance beneath the imagery. Cesaro's facial expressions were also golden throughout, and Zayn has that endearing touch to his selling which allows the theatrics to feel more just and acceptable. Stellar match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

OMFG :mark:

Haven't read it yet but had to share my initial reaction. 

:hb


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> Agreed. They should use him like they did at the Rumble when he completely beat the shit out of Show. He literally didn't have to do anything, and it made him look like a monster.


*I'd much rather Brock kill a man with his bare hands (like he can) then resort to using a chair for cheap heel heat but yeah the idea is the same. I'd got for heat via FEAR. *


Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> EAT. SLEEP. TAKE A MONTH AND A HALF TO WATCH CESARO/ZAYN IV LIKE A NO GOOD WELSH SON OF A BITCH.
> 
> 
> *Cesaro vs Sami Zayn, (NXT 2/27/14)*
> ...


*Congrats on becoming slightly less of a lunatic brother Eugene. Now catch up on Mad Men, PARKS, PERSON OF MOTHERFUCKING INTEREST, TDL Judging and a million other things and you'll no longer be a lunatic in my eyes. *


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

An hour away from Shield/Wyatts III :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Did it NEED the HHH jab??? 

Great review. I fail to remember the exploder transition you're referring to, though.

edit Agreed Seabs. I'd rather he do that too, like he did w/Mark Henry on Raw (meant to mention that in my first post but got sidetracked).


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I was blown away Triple H actually did a freaking tiger suplex, bet he was working on it all year :hmm:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

FUCK YOU GUYS


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Just so you know Greg I got a job, so SummerSlam is a deff reality again this year if your down to go of course


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

YES! :hb

Let's do it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Seabs said:


> *Congrats on becoming slightly less of a lunatic brother Eugene. Now catch up on Mad Men, PARKS, PERSON OF MOTHERFUCKING INTEREST, TDL Judging and a million other things and you'll no longer be a lunatic in my eyes. *


How was Chicana/Perro 2/28/86 :homer2




Point taken though :$ . I'm watching the first episode of GOT in a few though if that helps?



The Lady Killer said:


> Did it NEED the HHH jab???
> 
> Great review. I fail to remember the exploder transition you're referring to, though.


Does WAGG make a bad babysitter?

It was just after the moonsault counter IIRC. Zayn is perched in the corner, Cesaro charges, Zayn catches him and Cesaro takes the exploder directly into the corner. It's been a staple Zayn spot in NXT from a few matches I've seen, and I just felt the timing of it was a bit off. A minor quibble in an otherwise flawless match though.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> YES! :hb
> 
> Let's do it.


:mark: :mark: :mark:

Maybe I can pay for Cody's ticket :side:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> How was Chicana/Perro 2/28/86 :homer2
> 
> Does WAGG make a bad babysitter?
> 
> It was just after the moonsault counter IIRC. Zayn is perched in the corner, Cesaro charges, Zayn catches him and Cesaro takes the exploder directly into the corner. It's been a staple Zayn spot in NXT from a few matches I've seen, and I just felt the timing of it was a bit off. A minor quibble in an otherwise flawless match though.


Is that the lucha match you actually got me to watch?

Touche.

Oh right. I remember that now. I felt it was a bit random as well but didn't detract from the match overall.

edit Yes pls Tyler.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

It is indeed. Your participation in watching that should actually earn you a reprieve from HHH jokes actually. Consider this your reward.

Btw as a known HHH critic I can happily confess it was his best performance in years against Bryan on Sunday. I felt they approached the methodical and calculated aspect of his character really well, and I think it was Bubz who said in passing that he dug the cold and callous nature of the offence as sufficient to overcome the lack of pure hatred. They also had a far more organic third arc as opposed to some of the convoluted closing stretches I've come to expect from HHH, so again kudos are in order. He avoided the pitfalls I feared would plug Bryan into a formula that would stifle his talents, and the match exceeded expectations as a result.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> EAT. SLEEP. TAKE A MONTH AND A HALF TO WATCH CESARO/ZAYN IV LIKE A NO GOOD WELSH SON OF A BITCH.
> 
> 
> *Cesaro vs Sami Zayn, (NXT 2/27/14)*
> ...


Now I'm glad I came in here.

Take notes Triple H? He'd fail that test even if he tried to cheat.



Seabs said:


> *Rowan is seriously really good for a guy everyone says isn't very good. Like I think he's every bit as good as Harper but without a flashy moveset.*


Thank you.

Out of all of that, that's all I'll choose to focus on, but damn I dunno where the myth about Rowan not being any good comes from. If only he had success on the indies before joining. He'd be put over a lot too.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Is that the lucha match you actually got me to watch?
> 
> Touche.
> 
> ...


That might depend on where we plan to sit 

Erick Rowan is more talented then a handful of the roster.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

oh god another HHH hater :sad:

Ownage, Starbuck, anyone? HELP!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll read and respond to Woolcock's review in June :side:.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Hitman said:


> Do you think they would do Cesaro/Brock though? I know they are, rightly so, pushing Cesaro, but as they are both Heyman blokes, i'm not sure they will do it, at least not yet imo.


They should, otherwise I see little reason for the Cesaro/Heyman pairing. I was looking forward to babyface Cesaro manager-less when he ditched Zeb and he killed my enthusiasm literally three seconds later.



Seabs said:


> *Brock/Bryan at Summerslam is a bad idea because a loss at that point really hurts one. I guess you could have Bryan go down with a fight and get his win back later but there's better people for Brock to beat to build him back up (Cena).*


That's one of the reasons I don't like Brock winning at mania. When's the next time he's going to lose? If he faces Bryan this year you'd have to figure Bryan should win (unless it's Seabs is right about Bryan not keeping the title for too long), but, what? Lesnar's monster aura is slightly diminished once again and needs to retire John Cena to get it back? They ended the streak to build up one or two matches?



The Lady Killer said:


> oh god another HHH hater :sad:
> 
> Ownage, Starbuck, anyone? HELP!


d/w Greg, I'll help. 

I'd love to see HHH take an actual lesson. ''Heat Without Use of a Sledgehammer 101''


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HE GOT HEAT WITHOUT IT DAMMIT


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Greg, what stip do you wanna see for HHH/Bryan II at Extreme Rules? :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH VS DANIEL BRYAN BURIED ALIVE MATCH :mark:. Needs to happen.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> HHH VS DANIEL BRYAN BURIED ALIVE MATCH :mark:. Needs to happen.


HHH gets buried and returns at WM31 with the deadman gimmick now that Taker is done?! :ex:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*No mercy 2000 review 

First PPV review done on the NETWORK: mark: 

Match #1: 2 Cool Vs Lo Down Vs Tazz & Raven Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Right to Censor – The Dudley Boys 
Tag Team Elimination Table Invitational Match*

What a name for this match, its long as fuck :lol. Watching this on my nice 50 inch flatscreen on the network, makes it so much easier for me to get through reviews when im not watching on a shitty stream. Some flat out JOBBER teams in this one, Lo down? RTC was always garbage as well. 2 COOL is here, love these guys in 2000 :mark:. So this is like a gauntlet tables match I guess, LOL @ Lo down starting, give the win to 2 cool already :lmao. Lo down of course loses and too cool stays alive, Tazz and Raven come out next, ECW alum=TEAM apparently. Well they make quick work of too cool and the DUDLEY BOYS come out next, does this mean RTC in the finals? :lmao. Finals is the Dudleys and RTC, what a predictable finish, I mean its obvious that the Dudley Boys win, this wasn’t anything good at all tbh. Dudley boys win as expected and tables matches every ppv in 2000 are getting pretty boring, reason why they were only popular in the AE I guess outside of TLC matches.* *

CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #2: APA & LITA Vs T&A & Trish

This match never starts, :mark: at Trish and Lita though. N/A

CAL SCALE: N/A *

Match #3: Chris Jericho vs X-Pac 

I love their UF match so this should be a ton of fun, in a cage too :mark:. Pac has only had like 10 good matches in his entire life and the sad thing is that he may actually me a decent worker he was just fucked up on drugs his entire career that he sucked. This was a decent match, nowhere near the quality that was the UF match but still much better than the opener which wasn’t that good at all. I thought they utilized the cage well and the ending where Pac gets dropped on the cage door right on his crotch was so fucking great :lmao. Jericho wins, fun match overall but the UF match was just better. ****

CAL SCALE: 2 

Match #4: Billy Gunn & Chyna Vs Val Venis & Steven Richards
*
This doesn’t sound too fun at all, should be pretty bad and my expectations are pretty low for this. Holy shit I just remembered that HHH vs Benoit is on this PPV hope its good. LOL at Chyna on the mic, sounds like she has a huge cold all the time, voice is so fucking annoying. LOL at RTC too, what a jobber team this was, they always got on shitty matches on shows too fpalm. Match sucks, nothing really else to say except it was a standard shitty AE tag match. **

CAL SCALE: 0

Match #5: Rikishi vs Austin *

This is going to be one fucking hell of a brawl, Rikishi in 2000 is amazing and Austin is just awesome so hoping its better than the awesome Rikishi/Rock match at SVS. Rikishi is just a good BIG MAN before he got too fat and old to be good in the ring AKA after 2000 and early 2001. What a fun brawl this was, I’m not sure their was a legit wrestling move the entire match, it was just a full fledged fight from beginning to end. Ending was…strange but fitting as Austin gets arrested, just an awesome brawl though, Rikishi in 2000 is perfect, now is this better than the cage match at Fully Loaded, IDK maybe but we’ll see when I get to that show. ****1/2 

CAL SCALE: 3

Match #6: William Regal vs Naked Mideon 

:bosh NO 

CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #7: The Hardy boys vs Los Conquistadors 
*
Apparently these losers are actually E&C, match should be fun, this pre match interview is great :lmao. E&C just pretending to be Lucha wrestlers by just doing flips is so fucking awesome :lmao. Match sucked tbh, pretty disappointing as its been their one bad match so far but it just didn’t have that much substance at all which was a huge bummer, match felt flat and the best part was E&C being hilarious :lmao. ** 

CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #8: HHH vs Chris Benoit* 

Apparently this is AWESOME so I’m super pumped for it. I love their match in 2004 and I still need to see the IM match, when it gets on the network I will for sure. Cal said in his review of this match that he thinks its shit, REALLY hope I disagree because I love me some Benoit and HHH. Match was awesome, started a little slow but once it reached like the 7 minute mark I really started to enjoy it. I don’t think it’s a MOTYC like some have said but it’s the Game’s one good singles ppv match post Summerslam so I guess that is worth something. Match ended really fun and the last 5-7 minutes were REALLY fun and had some really good back and forth moments which was awesome. Finish with STEPHANIE was just :mark: because Steph was looking FINE tonight as she always is it seems, loved this though people giving it ****1/2 or higher are overrating it imo. *****

CAL SCALE: 5 

Match #9: Kurt Angle vs The Rock *

I HATE their NWO 2001 match, think its legit just one of the worst matches for both men and I really hope that this is a better match. STEPH is in this match as the manager of Angle, I honestly never even knew she managed him, shows how little I know I guess . Match is good, Angle winning the belt in his first year is pretty cool, was he ready? IDK maybe, not for mania as they had him drop the title to the Rock month before mania, but IDK if that was to set up the match with Austin or just because they didn’t feel Angle vs Austin at mania 17 would sell(imagine if they had TWO matches that were Summerslam quality :mark: ). Match isn’t a classic but its safely my second favorite match on this show, and MUCH better than the shitfest they had at NWO a few months down the line. The last part of the match is GREAT, the near falls at the end were just :mark:. Rock Giving Stephanie the rock bottom MADE the match, just fantastic. This was just AWESOME, makes me wonder If I am going to enjoy their other ppv match when I rewatch it, LOL hopefully not. HHH costs Rock the match, Angle wins the title, WAIT A KICKOUT! Great kickout there, loving this match a lot. I knew Angle won but some of those kickouts made me wonder if Angle won on RAW the next night. Finish is a little overbooked but it’s the year 2000 so I don’t really care, this match was a ton of fun. ***** 

CAL SCALE: 5 

TOTAL CAL SCALE: 14

CURRENT 2000 PPV RANKINGS 

1: Judgment day (20)
2: The Royal Rumble (17)
3: Unforgiven (15.5)
4: No mercy (14) 
5: WrestleMania 2000(13)
6: King of the ring(11) 
7: Insurrextion (8.5)
8: Survivor Series (7) 
9: Armageddon (4)
*​


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Shield vs. Wyatts III kada


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Smitty showing H/Benoit love :hhh2

Watching Extreme Rules 2009, just so happens to have Orton/Tista feuding over the main title. Sounds familiar...

Also, Shield/Wyatts III was awesome. Better than the Raw match, but not quite what the EC affair was.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> Smitty showing H/Benoit love :hhh2
> 
> Watching Extreme Rules 2009, just so happens to have Orton/Tista feuding over the main title. Sounds familiar...
> 
> Also, Shield/Wyatts III was awesome. Better than the Raw match, but not quite what the EC affair was.



I showed it some love too, gave it ***3/4 on last watch. To be honest, the problems with that match aren't Hunters, they are on Benoit. Hunter executed all this bad ass limb work only for Benoit to ignore it later in the match. That's what keeps me from giving it a higher rating.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Rock/Angle was MUCH better than I expected, thought that match gets underrated a good bit, last 10 minutes of that were AMAZING. 

***3/4 for Shield/Wyatts III, might go 4 stars


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Greg, what stip do you wanna see for HHH/Bryan II at Extreme Rules? :mark:


Not sure yet. I think a Cage would be most fitting given the interference as of late. No DQ or LMS would be the better match though probably.

You?


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

Shield vs Wyatts ***3/4 from main event
Wm Stars 
Pre-Show:
The Real Americans VS RybAxel VS Los Matadores VS The Usos
Four Way Elimination Match For The WWE Tag Team Titles ***

PPV:
HHH VS Daniel Bryan 
Winner Goes On To The Main Event ****1/2

New Age Outlaws & Kane VS The Shield **1/2

Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal ***

Bray Wyatt VS John Cena ****

Brock Lesnar VS Undertaker ***1/4

Vickie Guerrero's Diva Invitational For The Diva's Title *

Randy Orton VS Batista VS Daniel Bryan
Triple Threat For The WWE Title ****1/4


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family III - ******

Damn good shit. Ambrose's selling... finally getting over as a babyface too. Rollins with another awesome performance.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah I'll go **** for the Shield/Wyatts match, was really solid. 

Watching this Bryan Doc on the network, should be really good


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Shield/Wyatts III... DAMN, what a match! Going a high **** on it, even better than Wyatt/Cena from Mania. Not quite on the level of their EC match, but I don't think anything is touching that this year.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

How would you guys compare it to Shield/Wyatts II?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

TBH, I barely remember Shield/Wyatts II. It was a clear step down from their EC... I don't think it was particularly "great", but I remember it being a pretty good match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Anybody watch Graves/Zayn from NXT? Downloading that now. 



The Lady Killer said:


> Not sure yet. I think a Cage would be most fitting given the interference as of late. No DQ or LMS would be the better match though probably.
> 
> You?


Last man standing would be dope.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You guys change your names WAY too much in here. haha. I go away for a couple months, come back, and I have no idea who half you fuckers are anymore. Been watching the Rumble PPV from this year with only the Rumble match itself left, and honestly I've had a pretty good time watching. Heard a lot of people shat all over it so we'll see how I feel about the rumble match. So far, nothing awful. 

What is this Bryan doc you speak of, Smitty?

Cage match for HHH/Bryan seems to be the most fitting. Last Man Standing I could see going to Cena/Wyatt.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'M STILL THE SAME, JACK EVANS

Do they replay Main Event? I want to see Shield/Wyatts III


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You guys change your names WAY too much in here. haha. I go away for a couple months, come back, and I have no idea who half you fuckers are anymore. Been watching the Rumble PPV from this year with only the Rumble match itself left, and honestly I've had a pretty good time watching. Heard a lot of people shat all over it so we'll see how I feel about the rumble match. So far, nothing awful.
> 
> What is this Bryan doc you speak of, Smitty?
> 
> Cage match for HHH/Bryan seems to be the most fitting. Last Man Standing I could see going to Cena/Wyatt.




What did you think of Bryan/Wyatt?

I guess I could live with a cage match. Not a gimmick with a great track record in WWE though.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> How would you guys compare it to Shield/Wyatts II?


I'd rank them

1) Shield-Wyatts I (Elimination Chamber)
2) Shield-Wyatts III (Main Event)

3) Shield-Wyatts II (Raw)

II and III are different matches, but Main Event one was better.



The Lady Killer said:


> I'M STILL THE SAME, JACK EVANS
> 
> Do they replay Main Event? I want to see Shield/Wyatts III


Yeah, it might even be in the library right now if you want to go watch.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

If they go with Bryan/H for the strap :mark: Since it's at Extreme Rules it'll probably just an Extreme Rules match. Last Man Standing match with H as a heel though :mark: 

What I saw of Shield/Wyatts, which was pretty starting from the midway point was excellent. Ambrose was the face in peril for a good bit of time, and he sold everything like death. The ending stretch of Shield matches is getting pretty samey, but it's awesome, I think, with Rollins doing his suicide dives to either side, Reigns, doing his drop kick on the apron, Ambrose doing whatever the fuck (which included a suicide dive tonight). Ambrose countering Sister Abigail into the rollup was different, and a good change from just slipping out of it. The chaotic finishing stretch was just awesome.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> What did you think of Bryan/Wyatt?
> 
> I guess I could live with a cage match. Not a gimmick with a great track record in WWE though.


Bryan/Wyatt was fantastic. There's really no fancy way of putting of it. It was just a damn good, hard hitting back and forth match. Took me back to the days where Danielson would go 20 minutes against anyone on the ROH roster and give you MOTN every time. Full review for the PPV will be coming in an hour or two after I watch the Rumble.

Yeah Cage matches usually don't turn out that well over the past few years, but the gimmick makes the most sense to keep the Shield & the Authority/Evolution out. It would honestly be a shame if Triple H didn't wrestle in some kind of capacity at Extreme Rules due to the incredible shape he's in right now.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> I'd rank them
> 
> 1) Shield-Wyatts I (Elimination Chamber)
> 2) Shield-Wyatts III (Main Event)
> ...


Right on. Looking forward to watching it.



Odafin Tutuola said:


> If they go with Bryan/H for the strap :mark: Since it's at Extreme Rules it'll probably just an Extreme Rules match. Last Man Standing match with H as a heel though :mark:


I'm thinking (or hoping) they're gonna do Bryan/H II for the belt and Shield vs Orton/Batista/Kane. Bryan retains and Shield wins building momentum for Shield v Evolution at some point. By then they can position someone like Cesaro (you guys think he's gonna stay heel with Heyman or what?) or Wyatt (he's definitely beating Cena at ER) as a viable challenger for Bryan while Orton, Batista and Hunter step away from the title picture to deal with The Shield.

Evolution triple threat could be a real possibility for SummerSlam along with either Bryan/Cena II or Bryan/Lesnar.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I kinda thought they were pushing Cesaro as a face, but that may have just been disguised in all the cheers he and Heyman got from RAW. Cesaro vs. Swagger doesn't seem to be a double heel feud.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Probably should have clarified on my point about the role of a heel. I've always thought that booing is more of a symbol of a heel's effectiveness rather than an end goal. It's especially important in mainstream American wrestling because most fans put money into the company to watch their favorites succeed, not necessarily to boo those who they don't like. Ric Flair would travel around the country putting over the local star of the territory, and that was Flair's end goal as well as the goal of the owners of those specific territories. It wasn't necessarily to draw heat upon himself, although he did a great job of that too. I'm not trying to say that heels shouldn't get booed or that such a reaction is insignificant. I just think that it benefits both the face and the heel when they try to help get the face over through their heelish tactics rather than doing it just to put himself over.

With regards to making sense of today's face/heel dynamic, I don't think that it is a dying concept. It is a changing concept, but we need to see where it leads to in order to truly understand it. Cesaro as of yesterday seems to be the perfect example of this as he turned on his heel manager to join another heel manager, yet he gets cheered by a very good portion of the crowd and judging by the early interactions of his feud with Swagger, I guess he plays a face. This uncertainty doesn't bother me though because it still feels pretty natural. Cesaro left one manager to join a better one, which makes sense. And that's really all we can ask. Are what they're doing making sense?

I know you guys are tired of hearing me bag on 2005 (although I'm starting to warm up to it), but one of the reasons why I stopped watching weekly around that year was that I just couldn't identify with any of the faces on the roster. The time period from 2001-2004 felt like one where the heels were booked strong and the faces were always going through an uphill battle. Starting in 2005 though, the reverse occurred and the faces as a result became unlikable. As a result, I couldn't identify either with the new big time faces (Cena, Batista) because they were booked to be perfect, and I couldn't identify with some of the other faces that I used to love (Mysterio, Michaels) because they were booked to get the upper hand more often than they did before. That's why I'm such a big proponent of today's era. With the exception of Cena, it truly feels like babyfaces such as Bryan, Punk, Ziggler, and the Rhodes Brothers among others are constantly fighting for something that is above them. If there is one thing that will stay true about the face/heel dynamic no matter what time period it is, it is that.

Bah, right now I'm just doing some stream of mind typing, so I apologize if I'm making as much sense as Meng doing a shooting star press on a chimpanzee. I'm sure there are holes in my argument, but I just wanna talk.

Zayn/Graves from NXT last week was a nice treat. Regal's commentary was top notch per usual, but during that match, it really put over the story of whether or not Zayn was healthy enough to compete. Go watch it guys if you haven't already.

ERICK ROWAN! I would say that his finest performance would have to be in that awesome tag match with Harper against Punk and Bryan at Survivor Series. Why on earth do we not talk about that match enough? It rules. And who would have thought that the star performer would be the "novice", instead of either of the three top tier talents in the match? What separates Erick Rowan from some of the other brutes that have come up from the WWE without the traditional "indie" experience is that when Rowan performs a move, it really feels like he is trying to brutalize his opponent. On the other hand, you'll see guy like Titus O'Neil (I still love you Titus) who put on a chinlock and treat it as a resthold rather than a moment to dish out punishment. Rowan understands what role he needs to play as a monster heel, and he wrestles accordingly. When he wrestles against a cruiserweight, he sells like he's a clumsy oaf which is a delight to watch. When he wrestles against another big man, he makes sure to turn it into an old-fashioned brawl. Working with Harper and Wyatt definitely hides any deficiencies that come with lack of experience on Rowan's part, but as of right now, I can't find a reason to complain about one Erick Rowan.

So yeah, guys go rewatch the SvS tag match between the Wyatts and Punk/Bryan.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Bryan/Wyatt was fantastic. There's really no fancy way of putting of it. It was just a damn good, hard hitting back and forth match. Took me back to the days where Danielson would go 20 minutes against anyone on the ROH roster and give you MOTN every time. Full review for the PPV will be coming in an hour or two after I watch the Rumble.
> 
> Yeah Cage matches usually don't turn out that well over the past few years, but the gimmick makes the most sense to keep the Shield & the Authority/Evolution out. It would honestly be a shame if Triple H didn't wrestle in some kind of capacity at Extreme Rules due to the incredible shape he's in right now.


Yeah, Bryan/Wyatt was top notch. 4th best match this year imo.

I'm confident Trips is wrestling at Extreme Rules. I think it's a good possibility we'll be seeing more of him in the ring this year than we have for the last couple.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm very cool with Cesaro going with Heyman. Thought he still needed a mouthpiece, as his ability to just step in the ring and cut a promo is still lacking. (I did enjoy his anti-American segments in 2012, however.) Don't know if they'll continue with Cesaro/Swagger, but this should bump Cesaro up a good bit on the card. Wonder if they'll put they'll put a belt win. He's already given Big E a pretty nice match, and it seems like Ambrose is tied up for the time being. No idea if Ambrose will defend the US title before next year, anyways, since it'll take WWE that long to remember he's got he belt. 

Saw the idea of Brock/Cesaro mentioned a few pages back, and it would make sense, but I hope it happens after Summerslam. Want Cesaro to be with Heyman for a good bit before they break them up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Anybody watch Graves/Zayn from NXT? Downloading that now.


It's pretty grand, tbhayley. Everything you'd expect from Zayn _(and little bit more ~!)_ & what everyone should be expecting from Graves right now. Dunno why that guy is so underrated.

Neville vs Bo rematch owned too. Bo Dallas is officially good. As if I wasn't convinced last year, but now, it's established. He's another one who gets no credit. Good matches on the constant.

---------

Shield vs Wyatt Family III was a drop in the bucket. Worked different to separate itself from the pack & 100% great at every turn per usual. Unsure where it ranks next to match II, but bah. I don't like to rank so screw it. Don't have to. All of them are stellar.

Swagger vs Dolph was a nice little match itself & Rusev made 48 seconds worth seeing. Great edition of Main Event.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Corey Graves v Sami Zayn - NXT (4/3/14)
Great little match here. This could easily have slipped under my radar so I'm glad I decided to give it a look. First time I've seen Graves work and the kid wasn't half bad. He was quite good actually. I guess coming off dickish as the heel isn't the hardest thing to do when Zayn is giving a performance as strong as that but yeah, thought Graves did a good job being vicious and unrelenting against a vulnerable Zayn. LOL @ the 'we love headlocks' chant. Graves did work the headlock really well though. He could teach some of the guys on the main roster a thing or two about making a headlock look like a painful hold instead of just sitting in it passing time until the next spot. Now that I think about it this was like a lite version of Ziggler/Del Rio from Payback. In a good way obviously. Tremendous sell job from Zayn. Loved the part where he tried to go to the top rope but just couldn't manage it. The finish worked nicely and I'm looking forward to the eventual rematch. Really good stuff. Good enough for THE LIST:

1. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Elimination Chamber (2/23/14)
2. Cesaro v Sami Zayn - NXT ArRIVAL (2/27/14)
3. Daniel Bryan v Triple H - WrestleMania XXX (4/6/14)
4. Bray Wyatt v Daniel Bryan - Royal Rumble (1/26/14)
5. Randy Orton v Batista v Daniel Bryan - WrestleMania XXX (4/6/14)
6. Cesaro v John Cena - Raw (2/17/14)
7. Randy Orton v Cesaro v Christian v Daniel Bryan v John Cena v Sheamus - Elimination Chamber (2/23/14)
8. Daniel Bryan v Randy Orton - Raw (2/3/14)
9. Bray Wyatt v John Cena - WrestleMania XXX (4/6/14)
10. Corey Graves v Sami Zayn - NXT (4/3/14)
11. Christian & Sheamus v The Real Americans - Raw (2/10/14)
12. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Raw (3/3/14)
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 10 matches of the year (so far):

(****3/4)
1) Wyatts/Shield EC 
(****)
2) Wyatts/Shield Main Event 4/8
3) Wyatt/Cena WM30
4) Bryan/HHH WM30
5) Cesaro/Cena Raw 2/17
(***3/4)
6) Bryan/Orton/Cena/Sheamus/Cesaro/Christian EC
7) Wyatts/Cena-Sheamus-Big E Raw 4/7
(***1/2)
8) Wyatt/Bryan RR
9) Cesaro/Orton SD 2/15
10) Bryan-Cena-Sheamus/Shield Raw 1/27


Great year so far.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Holy shit Ultimate Warrior died?!?! He was on Raw just last night.



#BadNewsSanta said:


> Top 10 matches of the year (so far):
> 
> (****3/4)
> 1) Wyatts/Shield EC
> ...


Forgot the Mania triple threat?

I think I need to watch Cena/Wyatt again. A lot of people have given it **** or higher. Wasn't on that level for me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> Holy shit Ultimate Warrior died?!?! He was on Raw just last night.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I still need to re-watch it. Haven't gotten around to it yet, and while I threw ***1/2 at it based on what I was able to focus on, my mind was still stuck on Taker losing to really give it my full attention. So right now I'm leaving it off anything until I re-watch it. 

Wyatt/Cena was a masterclass in character portrayal in a match by Wyatt, with top notch storytelling to boot. Pacing was good, great nearfalls with sister Abigail and the AA, and while I'm not happy Cena won, I feel they did Wyatt justice. I loved how at times Cena just attacked Wyatt mercilessly, and even was struggling with choosing to beatdown Wyatt or try to win the match. Looking back in hindsight, it was silly to think Cena wasn't going to win the match, as everything pointed to him doing so, and overcoming his fear of the Wyatt. The story played out perfectly. Match was standout of the night for me, and what edges it over Bryan/HHH, as I mentioned before, is it just had more heat to it where Bryan/HHH was a great wrestling match in my book, but didn't have the heat in it the feud called for, and it ended pretty abruptly... and as I said above, I still need to re-watch the triple threat, which I'm shocked to see is getting many MOTN votes. Hell, last I checked, I saw it beating out Bryan/HHH in that poll in the PPV section.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> I still need to re-watch it. Haven't gotten around to it yet, and while I threw ***1/2 at it based on what I was able to focus on, my mind was still stuck on Taker losing to really give it my full attention. So right now I'm leaving it off anything until I re-watch it.
> 
> Wyatt/Cena was a masterclass in character portrayal in a match by Wyatt, with top notch storytelling to boot. Pacing was good, great nearfalls with sister Abigail and the AA, and while I'm not happy Cena won, I feel they did Wyatt justice. I loved how at times Cena just attacked Wyatt mercilessly, and even was struggling with choosing to beatdown Wyatt or try to win the match. Looking back in hindsight, it was silly to think Cena wasn't going to win the match, as everything pointed to him doing so, and overcoming his fear of the Wyatt. The story played out perfectly. Match was standout of the night for me, and what edges it over Bryan/HHH, as I mentioned before, is it just had more heat to it where Bryan/HHH was a great wrestling match in my book, but didn't have the heat in it the feud called for, and it ended pretty abruptly... and as I said above, I still need to re-watch the triple threat, which I'm shocked to see is getting many MOTN votes. Hell, last I checked, I saw it beating out Bryan/HHH in that poll in the PPV section.


Oh my bad, I thought you gave the triple threat ****. Must be confusing you with someone else.

Definitely gonna watch Cena/Wyatt again before Extreme Rules. The story was a bit conflicting to me. What was Bray more concerned with? Beating Cena or bringing out the monster in him? I guess he would've been happy with either outcome and was just going for one or the other?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bray has admitted numerous times in various promos how victories for him come more than just in the form of a "1-2-3". That's basically the gist of what he was trying to accomplish vs Cena. Defeat him, turn him into a monster, or get both on the same night.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> Definitely gonna watch Cena/Wyatt again before Extreme Rules. The story was a bit conflicting to me. What was Bray more concerned with? Beating Cena or bringing out the monster in him? I guess he would've been happy with either outcome and was just going for one or the other?


I took it as the latter. I don't know if he ever mentioned actually wanting to beat Cena, but rather destroying the legacy Cena built up. And how does he do that? By eliminating the current John Cena and everything he stands for, and replacing it with a monster of a man who shows no remorse and certainly doesn't live up to the mantra of hustle, loyalty, and respect. 

Essentially, it's what Kane tried to do in 2012, only much better done and led to a much better match. Plus it was more psychological than what Kane did. Rather than inflicting pain on someone close to Cena to get him to break, he was purely attacking Cena... not just physically, but mentally. He tried getting him to question what he's lived his life by and for Cena to self-destruct and destroy everything he's built up to this point.

That being said, it kinda sucks that Cena ended up not only overcoming that, but actually beating Wyatt. However, it doesn't look like they're done with this feud yet, and although I don't expect Cena to change, I do expect Wyatt to defeat Cena and for everything to come together nicely for him, even if not exactly in the way he intended. Would that be a victory in Wyatt's mind? Maybe/maybe not... but more importantly, it'll make him look strong to us, the fans, which will lead him to more prosperous things.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

For some reason I thought he said he was going to destroy Cena's legacy by beating him at Mania. I'll probably enjoy the story and the match more when I watch it over from the perspective you guys did. (Y)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WWE Royal Rumble 2014

*Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt - ****

Brock Lesnar vs. Big Show - **

*WWE World Heavyweight Championship
*Randy Orton (c) vs. John Cena - ** 3/4

The Royal Rumble Match - **

- As I said earlier in the night, there's no fancy way of putting over Bryan vs. Wyatt. The match was balls awesome and everyone knows it. What a doozy.

- Brock vs. Show was rated as a total package, not just what was between the bells. I had a good time watching. It was smart for Brock to gain the upperhand with the chair after being thrown around so much in the buildup, and him almost getting knocked out was hilarious. The F5 was impressive as ever and warranted a * on its own, I just think they went a little overboard with the chair shots after the match. I got the point after the first 10-15.

- I haven't really paid attention to ratings for Cena vs. Orton, but I'm willing to bet mine's a little higher than most. The crowd clearly hated it and wanted Daniel Bryan, but the way Orton relished in that hate was fucking great. I'm a sucker for that classic Orton pose.  It was a big time finisher fest for a while and I wasn't buyin many of the nearfalls, but when they went all Austin/Rock from Mania XIX on us and started stealing each other's finishers, I had some fun with it. (not gonna lie). Cena's RKO and Orton's AA were both pretty sweet, plus all the torque Orton put in his version of the STF. Wyatt interference was really cool too. Not a great match as a whole and I know that, but I had fun with the last several minutes. 

- If it hadn't been for Roman Reigns, this year's Rumble would've been a massive fail. Really it isn't too far ahead of that, but still. The crowd was not happy with an early Ziggler elimination and the lack of Bryan. Batista looked gassed beyond belief. What a horrible showing from that guy. Huge pops for Sheamus & Nash. Punk was sort of just there for 45 minutes, not doing much. Rusev had a good showing, but I'm not gonna get too invested in him until he proves he's not the next Ezekiel Jackson, Vladimir Kozlov, or Big E. Langston. El Torito almost stole the show. Yeah that's about it. Reigns made himself a star, Batista floundered miserably. The lack of Bryan has to make you think, was the company fucking up over and over again, or just trolling us really hard to make Wrestlemania that much more special the whole time??? :vince$​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Orton was a total joke of a match. I kept calling it spot for spot, moment for moment that I was just treating it as if I was watching some awful reality TV program. Which left me to wonder why I was watching to begin w/. Bah. Nothing but nonsense.

Garbage event, but w/Danielson vs Wyatt being fabulous, it immediately trumped the 2013 debacle. Which is scary. Thankfully the event that mattered on Sunday is where everything went swimmingly.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Didn't see you post your thoughts on Mania bro.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Gonna check out Wyatts/Shield III on Network now if it's on there


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family on the recent Main Event was really good (Y). Dean's selling and bumping was great and the match was really fun to watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tag Championships was blander than dry toast. But the aftermath is all that we cared about & they delivered w/that. So, a proper start there. And good for them to give the match time, even if nothing was accomplished w/it.

Danielson gave Triple H his best match since...goodness I have to go all the way back to 2008 vs Jeff Hardy iirc. Great stuff. Danielson was the underdog, but he still managed to dictate the pacing to where he just gave off that natural aura of elevating anyone he's in the ring w/. Triple H busting out a Tiger Suplex? No friggin way. He'd ONLY do that vs Danielson & on the stage they were at. Steph & Trips hit their roles wonderfully and there isn't a bad thing to say about the entire match/angle. I wasn't a fan of the post match beatdown, but as it proved, that worked equally well into the events later on in the night. I walked into the match lukewarm b/c it's Triple H, but despite letting further knowledge of Bryan Danielson not swaying me, I left digging everything about it. Dunno why I didn't believe in Danielson to make the most out of Triple H come through. The guy gave the best match to KENTA w/only one friggin arm. A tremendous best match at that. And KENTA sucks big time. But yeah, all of this was strong. No denying.

Shield squashing the old guys was basically genius. Kane can continue on being w/the Authority like how he is and the Outlaws got the piss beat out of them by three talents who are younger, better, faster, etc so they can never show up again. Fact that, iirc, Billy Gunn actually got injured only makes it come off BETTER. Someone out there is probably a bit miffed The Shield didn't get much "time" at WM. That's a weak complaint. Instead they looked amazingly dominate and reborn. This was their resurrection - from heels to full tilt babyfaces. All three looked great.

Battle royal was a battle royal. It was bleh until you had the people who mattered remain and then it started to pick up on the whim of some excitement. Kofi Kingston is a fucking moron. Nothing changed. Cesaro being put in it had to give me hope that he'd win it. And he did. Yet again, another sign of tremendous & logical booking shown by WWE on this night. Ideal candidate won. Match served a purpose. Cesaro is here. And MY STARS at how he won the match too. Amazing.

Cena vs Wyatt sits as my "MOTN". Absolutely loved it from start to finish. The character work, the storytelling. Enthralling pieces brought to life. This is why Wyatt is where he's currently stationed at right now & it's where the worth of Cena comes into play. Even w/the loss, Wyatt is still actually smelling like a rose. I didn't think it would work if he lost, but I'm convinced it has.

Undertaker vs Lesnar. Well. I don't have much to say here. Not on the match. I actually thought the match is good. Really good, tbhayley. I'm alone in that and that's fine. Doesn't bother me. I already knew it was going to get heat b/c of the way it was done. But I felt more storytelling was put forth and done very well. We just didn't believe the outcome the match's story was leading us to would actually happen. Then it did. Aftermath...words don't do my emotions justice. I broke down.

Divas match was the most brilliant piece of crap I've had the pleasure of watching. Eva Marie's amazing push, stare, blow a kiss sequence. Everything I hoped. Totally shit. Bless them.

Main event was tremendous & full tilt excitement. Again, all aided by Bryan Danielson. Batista was still pretty bad during this. But not enough to where he killed anything. Just more for a chuckling purpose w/him doing horrific bumping off a drop toe hold of all things. Orton was fine. I guess I can call him "good" or whatever, but largely he was just there. Story of him these days. He added to the match when he needed to w/Danielson & didn't take anything away. That's what he should have done. My brother made a joke earlier in the night - during Triple H vs Danielson - about Scott Armstrong needing to show up for an awesome moment. THEN BOOM. HE DID. I loved that. Actually made that angle come full circle and not a forgotten moment where it looked like the booking had a lapse of oxygen w/their angles. Amazing how properly booked this match was. Like really. The company that had a good angle start at SummerSlam, screw it up only a few weeks later and then become bad by the time we're building to this show only for the actual turn out go ABOVE & beyond all our expectations. Glad they came through. Take lukewarm or no hype whatsoever and churn out, not only a great main event, but a great event on the whole. Danielson winning was the definitive bliss I had hoped for. And needed after the most crushing thing I've ever had to deal happening only an hour or so prior. Forgot to mention that yeah, again Triple H & Steph did their roles well here too. Trips getting the sledgehammer to the face & EATING IT ruled. Took it like a champ. Danielson being put on the stretch only to get off of it and eventually win. YES YES YES. As the Foley nut I am, I had to take it as the next best thing since Mick did it at KOTR 1998. Nothing short of win here.

The way I buttoned this up via text to some pals is what I'll use here: The most emotional WrestleMania I have ever seen.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I just watched Cena/Wyatt again and I liked it a lot more this time around. Still don't think it's MOTN or even the second best match (possible bias involved because Bryan winning made the main event so, so sweet) but I appreciated it more than I did before. Thought the character work was great on the first viewing but this time the storytelling and therefore the match as a whole came off better. My fault for not grasping it initially. Great match. Gonna have to bump it up a few spots on my list.

Funny that you mentioned Batista's shitty bump off the drop toe hold. Even before that he had that hilariously bad bump off Bryan's rana counter to the Batista Bomb. It was seriously so bad.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Didn't the match start with an awful bump attempt from a Bryan head scissors were he basically just walked then remembered he was supposed to go outside so he lunged through the ropes.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Didn't the match start with an awful bump attempt from a Bryan head scissors were he basically just walked then remembered he was supposed to go outside so he lunged through the ropes.


Haha yeah, that's what I was talking about. At least he seemed to be in much better shape. Didn't notice him being visibly gassed. It's possible that he was and I didn't pick up on it because of how crazy the match was but the point is he was able to keep up. Thankfully with this Authority/Shield feud happening we might not have to see Big Dave in singles action on PPV for a while.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Right. Totally forgot about the 'rana spot where Batista took it terribly and flopped to the outside. Now it's a visual I can't stop seeing, ha.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Watching Bryan/HHH again. Forgot about that table spot where H destroyed Bryan's arm. For those saying there wasn't enough hatred from H, I disagree. The table spot and the right hand cut off of Bryan's dive and the slam of the arm on the apron followed by taunting are just a few examples. HHH has admitted he doesn't hate Bryan but wants the YES movement to end and he also wants to win so he can go after the title.

It's clear he was trying to hurt him. It wasn't your typical limb work. It was definitely more aggressive. Plus you have the post match beatdown when by this point he probably does hate him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The apron arm destruction = JESUS CHRIST


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

DAT LARIAT


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The one post-match was even more stiff. And in the back of the head. My stars some of the abuse Danielson took.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah that was borderline too much :lmao

Kickout of The Pedigree


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lots of jumping around to be had on that moment. It was glory or *shovel smiley* time right there. GLORY WINS.

Kept making the joke-y observation of WM needing this tagline: _WrestleMania XXX - Where one finisher just isn't enough._


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I think they did a good job in that match of not whoring finishers like most main event matches in WWE. Just one from each. In a way it was like a main event version of Cesaro/Zayn only with more drama. Technical with calculated, focused limb work, babyface hope spots + elite selling, signature moves + counters, not reliant on finishers, etc.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

CEREBRAL


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

In all the matches no finisher was overdone. And that's the best part. Especially when you take in the context that in all the big matches, everyone got to hit their finisher once. Only time it ended the match on the first go was Danielson's running knee. Which is the best thing of it all, as keeping his finisher the most legit of the bunch was def the proper booking decision.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley, your sig is making me sad. Even though that magical entrance.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Just watched WrestleMania XXX with a few friends, since I'd never dream of paying for it, and I was at school when it aired anyway.

Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan - *****1/4*

I really liked this match. Perhaps the most glowing praise I can give it is that it went for nearly 27 minutes, but it felt like it went for 15. Triple H working Bryan's shoulder was entertaining to watch, and it makes me wish he had been working as a heel more often from 2006-now. Also, Stephanie in hot pants was dope. My one criticism of this match was Triple H hitting the Pedigree, immediately going for the cover, and Bryan kicking out at 2-and-a-half. It just irks me. It would also happen numerous times during the event. Still, a very good match, and it was cool to see Bryan bust out the German suplexes, and see Triple H hit a Tiger suplex. Cool stuff, and a must watch for a fan of either man, I think.

The Shield vs. Kane & New Age Outlaws - ****

I almost want to give this match a dud rating, but it was pretty entertaining for what it was. It went for three minutes, served no purpose, and the guys hit a bunch of moves. Still, I've seen far worse filler.

Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal - *DUD*

I liked the ending, but that didn't save this match from being a huge clusterfuck, like every battle royal ever. The biggest sin was Cesaro working with Mysterio, while Sheamus and Big Show sat in the corner watching. At least pretend to be punching each other. Cesaro eliminating Big Show was neat, at least.

John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt - ***3/4*

I really wanted to like this. I did. However, I feel like Cena's *SHIT* acting really detracted from the match. The subject matter called for a little more subtlety, and Cena can't exactly pull off subtle. It was enjoyable to watch, and had some nice moments. Cena getting spooked by Bray when he went for the Five Knuckle Shuffle, and then not bouncing off the ropes on the next attempt due to the previous spooky experience was great. Once again, people kicking out of finishers after an immediate cover. I get that it's Wrestlemania, but at least take a couple of seconds to crawl over the guy. As it stands, an Attitude Adjustment or a Sister Abigail doesn't feel much different to a suplex. Maybe that makes it more realistic? Outcome of the match seemed silly. A clean Cena win was almost the one thing that shouldn't have happened here. Let him murder Wyatt, or have Wyatt win in some underhanded way that leaves him unsatisfied. Hell, even go for a DQ. Maybe I'm just sick of fueds beginning at WrestleMania, instead of WM being the blow off.

Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker - ****

25 minutes of fucking nothing. This felt like a RAW match that dragged on 15 minutes too long. Both men just looked tired the whole time (understandable in Taker's case), and the whole thing never gelled with me. Felt like they were just going through the motions and hitting moves. Spots were easy to call from a million miles away. Easily the worst streak match in the last seven years. I actually left to take a dump at one point, and could hear commentary the whole time. All that happened was that the Hell's Gate was locked in twice, which amounted to nothing. If a match hasn't significantly advanced in the time that it takes me to shit, you're doing something very wrong. Slow, plodding and most of all, underwhelming. Also, more of men kicking out of finishers after being pinned immediately afterwards. ~Woo~

Divas Championship Invitational - *DUD*

Fuck off. Couldn't AJ just have wrestled Natalya for seven minutes or something? Lots of spots that didn't mean anything, lots of WrestleMania paydays for people that didn't put in any effort.

Batista vs. Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan - ****1/2*

I liked this quite a bit. The whole thing felt extremely reminiscent of the WrestleMania XX main event, and while this match doesn't come close to that one, it was still very good. Kind of wish Orton and Bryan could have had a little more interaction, because I like their work together. Batista managed to not stink up the joint, since the triple threat format managed to mask his weaknesses. Batista and Orton teaming up to take down Bryan was nice, and that spot on the announce table was brilliant. Props to Orton for landing on that monitor and still going strong. Looked like it hurt a bunch. Final stretch of the match was just a lot of fun, and the ending was perfect, I think. Batista taps out to the new face of the company, Orton stays strong and has a big reason to want a rematch (which I would enjoy seeing on PPV a lot), and the WrestleMania ends with one of the most legitimate feel good moments in the last few years.


Overall, it was a very fun show. I don't think it comes close to some of the *great* PPV's, but it's worth watching because of what it represents. This event really felt like the dawn of a new era. With one exception (Cena/Wyatt), this show was about the young guys going over and looking good, and even then, Wyatt looked *fucking amazing*. A pretty good showcase of the new talent that will be leading the company for the next few years. Good stuff.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Bryan/H-Man :mark:
'Taker losing his streak :mark:
Hogan/Stogan/Rogan :mark:
Triple Threat :mark:

WrestleMania XXX :mark: :mark: :mark:

The most I've enjoyed MANIA since probably 21. A complete show in contrary to what we've been witnessing since WrestleMania 25. In terms of overall, WrestleManias... I'd go:

1. X-Seven
2. XIX
3. 21
4. X
5. XXX
6. XX
7. XXIV

Might be missing some and it's for a nostalgic point of view mainly.


Edit:

On DEM star rating scale, I'd give Bryan/Hunter 4.5. It was everything it was supposed to be and Mr. Bryan got HIS match and moment right there. What happened later that night was only inevitable.

Performer of 'Mania X ~ HBK
Performer of 'Mania XX ~ Benoit
Performer of 'Mania XXX ~ Daniel f'kin Bryan


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> Hayley, your sig is making me sad. Even though that magical entrance.


I'm lucky to not cry every time I see it, but damn. It isn't easy. Had to represent the Dead Man per usual, though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So, The Streak is over, Bryan fucking Danielson is WWE World Champion and now The Ultimate Warrior has passed away.

Can I just ask WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?! This is fucking surreal.

To pay respects to Warrior, EVERYBODY watch Savage/Warrior WM 7 today. Do it for the spirit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> So, The Streak is over, Bryan fucking Danielson is WWE World Champion and now The Ultimate Warrior has passed away.
> 
> Can I just ask WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?! This is fucking surreal.
> 
> To pay respects to Warrior, EVERYBODY watch Savage/Warrior WM 7 today. Do it for the spirit.


Ill watch the biggest wrestling moment from my childhood first: Warrior/Hogan from WM 6.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That's a good proposition too. Hell, it is a better Warrior tribute tbh, since Savage/Warrior is more for Savage. Still, I recommend Savage/Warrior since it's his best match ever by far and really just hit about every Goddamn thing right. Except for the ending, and even that served its purpose in a way.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Wrestlemania was an almost perfect spectacle, and fitting of the 30th anniversary. The changing of the guard is most certainly in full effect, and it appears, Vince is taking a more relaxed role when it comes to asserting his wishes. Witnessing the birth of Cesaro as the new B guy, after a monstrous chant in the Battle Royale and a throng-like following on the Pre-Show, and the attainment of Daniel Bryan's dream easily ranks as my favourite Wrestlemania moments. While Hogan slamming Andre may be the moment, Bryan's win was the ending almost everyone wished to see and was a perfect underdog accomplishment that followed a story of which had some rather nice highs (and, sadly, tapering lows). I assume WWE tried to rewrite XXX as the feel good moment to replace Benoit and Eddie ending Wrestlemania a decade ago, but it also feels like they took its slogan ("where it all begins, again") and reran with it. Outside of Cesaro and Bryan, Wyatt placed himself as a contender looking on from the cusp. I hesitate to think both Cena and Undertaker could have lost on the same night, and the booking of Cena over-coming the odds was apparent from the outset, but he drove Cena to near self-destruction, showing the company's top face as humanlike (a quality he sorely misses), after all. While I wasn't expecting McConaughey battling Michael Shannon, as wrestlers are terrible and untrained actors, I had expected more from them, in terms of ring work. Cena isn't as great as laying out sections as Bryan is, but he's a terrific big match player and should have been a good enough mold to walk Bray through a memorable performance. While good, it never once moved past that threshold. A critique that seemed to hold true across the board.

The opener was, quite easily, the match of the night and seemed to work better than I had any expectation of it. Credit where it's due, HHH has gone out of his way to make Bryan look great the last few weeks and his bumping on the past Raw and him going through his match structure, here, without his typical flair and self-indulgent rub, truly helped cement Bryan as a big deal. No fluff, no extended HHH work-overs, this came in and left when it needed to and was all the better for it. Hunter working Bryan's leg, to slow the guy down, was a good enough transition into the arm work-over and where the entire match should have hinged. HHH's offence and holds, while disgustingly vicious, were perversely entertaining and this may just cement itself as one of Hunter's best performances, helping aid the crowd into rallying behind Bryan. Of course the Pedigree kickout was an obvious play, but it still hinged between what we assumed to be reality (Hunter continuing his supposed burial routine) and fantasy (Bryan going on to the big one) and, when he kicked out, it felt organic.

As disillusioned as I am with the split of The Real Americans, Cesaro's performance in the battle royal seems to show some great promise for his future as a single's wrestler. His meshing with Sheamus has been portrayed before, and the door still lies open, but his work, here, with Rey, Goldust and Cody was great. The latter, too, is a fresh answer to The Rhodes Bros not being used as a tag, and allowing for them to flourish in the singles arena. Even if they're to happen on Main Event or Superstars, I won't sneeze at those pairings and working with two of the best wrestlers in the world will be a wondrous learning opportunity for Cody. Cesaro also replicating the slamming of Andre (Show) was a feat of strength worthy of the occasion.

'Taker/Brock is what it is; and chalk me up in the group that was in favour of it. Sadly, Undertaker suffering a concussion early into the match most certainly hurt their output here and it's even more depressing that The Streak ends following such a lacklustre match. Moreover, for an opportunity in rewriting history, this deserved a build-up fitting of this. It appears that Brock will be booked on more events, from now on, so there does lie a conundrum as to why he wasn't used more coming toward 'Mania. Lesnar is a rather special attraction, in that his legitimacy doesn't seem too perturbed by his losses. Equally, building up to this Wrestlemania, WWE have been toying with 'Taker losing and, at the very least, continually being one more step behind his normal self. Both instances with HHH almost saw The Game going over. That was two and three years ago, the mortality of The Undertaker does play more to Brock's advantage (especially noting his brute force approach) and, even if The Beast couldn't overcome Hunter, him overcoming a 50 year old 'Taker isn't much of a stretch. The commentators pushed it as the match where the impossible would happen, and I'm glad Brock was the monster to do it. While Cena/'Taker may have been a missed opportunity, Cena winning would have sent the crowd into a frenzy. Brock was the one to placate the crowd, and, if 'Taker is numbered in his days, this was the perfect temporal opportunity to make use of it. Build-up and match quality aside. As for Undertaker, the booking of his character work was sublime. He came out a demon, seemingly invincible, yet left mortally broken. The last larger-than-life character in wrestling was finally humanised. HayleySabin's signature says it all.

Following on the from the shock of Brock's win, the crowd was completely deflated for the divas match and even Bryan's entrance. As a testament to his charisma, though, he managed to slowly reel the 75 thousand strong back into his hands. Moreover, this match shows that "overbooking", when used sparingly and as callbacks to each focal point in the feud, has its rightful place in wrestling. I felt replicating Foley's stretcher return spot came across rather flat, from the start, but its build following was white-hot. The Batista-bomb into RKO was also a defining moment, and played into Bryan's underdog story. Randy slicing his back open on that monitor looked scary, but he kept going like a trooper. Deep down I knew Bryan was winning, but, boy, did I buy into those finishers at the end. From a match quality perspective this was not good but, from an angle leading up to the big moment, this was priceless.

All in all, for the first time in a long time, Wrestlemania felt like The Stage of the Immortals. It felt larger than life, an aspect it always tried to portray itself as. While match classics are so sought after, wrestling is so much more than a technically perfect match. It's about the emotional ups and downs, the highs and the lows. Wrestling is meant to be a roller-coaster ride that makes you abandon reality and live within the world crafted by the promotion, rooting for the heroes you've followed the careers of, finally defining their legacies. And that's exactly what Wrestlemania XXX was.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm on mobile right now but holy shit, warrior is dead, I'm in a state of shock, we just fucking saw him 2 days ago! This is just horrible, will watch warrior/savage and warrior/hogan tonight...


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----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Everyone don't forget Warrior/Rude Cage match at Summerslam 1990. That's the other classic from Warrior besides WM 6 and 7. Man, how awful is this? Atleast he got his moment in the sun before passing. Imagine if WWE waited until WM 31 to induct him....RIP Warrior.

Bryan f'in Danielson is the world champ everyone. He had not one, but 2 classic Mania matches in one night, got the best match out of Trips since 2008, made a match featuring Orton and Batista an absolute thrill ride, and is just the baddest man on the planet in general right now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Another House Show upload: 

*The Undertaker(c) vs The British Bulldog - Handheld House Show - (Canada - 13.06.1997)*

x1mzys7


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Don't forget about the other Rude/Warrior match at Summerslam. So damn good. I really should have given more respect to Warrior all these years, especially since two of my favorite wrestlers were so influenced by him. Even on RAW this past Monday, he still had that special larger than life aura about himself. RIP Warrior. As you said, your spirit lives on in the storytellers.

Love the description Rah made about Taker being the last larger than life star we had. It really does hurt knowing that the relic of the past eras is likely done, but the guys today are doing all of them justice. Never been more proud of a group of young stars than I am now.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Was Taker/Brock deliberately paced and formatted like that or was it mainly due to the concussion that the match went into a new direction? Brock works a much slower pace compared to his early 2000s self, it might just be that but I really don't know.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Was Taker/Brock deliberately paced and formatted like that or was it mainly due to the concussion that the match went into a new direction? Brock works a much slower pace compared to his early 2000s self, it might just be that but I really don't know.


It's a question that I've debated since the match. Did Taker want to do something similar to his past matches but his body physically couldn't hold up? Or did he call an audible? Or did he pull off the greatest sell job odd all time and pretended to look broken down? I say that being the master storyteller that he is, Taker wanted the match to go overtly slow and sloppy to drive that point that he really is human. One thing's for sure; this is the most controversial match in wrestling history.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Was Taker/Brock deliberately paced and formatted like that or was it mainly due to the concussion that the match went into a new direction? Brock works a much slower pace compared to his early 2000s self, it might just be that but I really don't know.


The injury didnt help Taker of course, but i did think the structure of the match is pretty close of what we would have gotten, with the story they trying to go for.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I took my time and watched Shield/Wyatts III, and what else can I say but those six delievered yet AGAIN. And even more impressive? The fact that, in their three instances, they 100% suceeded in telling three completely different stories - a personal and intense all-out war at EC, a tale of self-destruction on Raw, and now simply two stables with something to prove -, without losing the chaos paradox both stables are known for. The future is bright as hell atm.

Top 15 of 2014 so far for me:
1) Cesaro/Zayn, NXT Arrival - ****3/4
2) Shield/Wyatts, Elimination Chamber - ****1/2
3) HHH/Bryan, WrestleMania 30 - ****1/2
4) Cena/Cesaro, Raw 2/17 - ****1/4
5) Bryan/Wyatt, Royal Rumble - ****
6) Orton/Bryan/Batista, WrestleMania 30 - ****
7) Shield/Wyatts, Main Event 4/8 - ****
8) Shield/Wyatts, Raw 3/3 - ****
9) Orton/Cena/Bryan/Sheamus/Christian/Cesaro, Elimination Chamber - ****
10) Orton/Bryan, Raw 2/3 - ***3/4
11) 30-Man Rumble, Royal Rumble - ***3/4
12) Cena/Wyatt, WrestleMania 30 - ***3/4
13) Big E, Cena & Sheamus/Wyatts, Raw 4/7 - ***1/2
14) Orton/Cesaro, Smackdown 2/14 - ***1/2
15) Sheamus & Christian/Real Americans, Raw 2/10 - ***1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Best Undertaker matches (probably missed a few) 



> * Chosen due to historical reasons
> 
> Undertaker vs Mario Mancini (WWF Superstars 12.15.90) *
> Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania 25)
> ...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just listening to the Jericho podcast: apparently Taker was actually knocked out cold in the match. When he got to the back, he didn't remember what happened, didn't even know what city he was in. That's really scary man, I already thought the match was getting undue hate, but now I'm 100% positive we shouldn't be bagging on that match. It wasn't bad at all, and when you factor in Taker was actually in LaLa land for most of it, you really just have to appreciate the Deadman that much more.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Just listening to the Jericho podcast: apparently Taker was actually knocked out cold in the match. When he got to the back, he didn't remember what happened, didn't even know what city he was in. That's really scary man, I already thought the match was getting undue hate, but now I'm 100% positive we shouldn't be bagging on that match. It wasn't bad at all, and when you factor in Taker was actually in LaLa land for most of it, you really just have to appreciate the Deadman that much more.


Ill DL that podcast now, thanks. For taker to get through that match the way he did is fucking amazing, and full testament to the sort of person he is. Morons on here havn't even factored the fact about the injury, take that into account and it becomes an all different story.

I mean, he attempted the 'Last ride' with that injury, when was the last time he did a Last ride, let alone doing it to Lesnar.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I was listening to a wrestling podcast this morning, just a comedy one that I listen to every morning. The guy that does it got a text while the podcast was going on, that's how I found out and it was a REALLY strange way to find out 


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----------



## NotoriousTCG (Nov 28, 2013)

I remember I tried to continue to play soccer a few years ago after I had woke up after being knocked out. And after about 10 minutes I couldn't stand up as I was unconscious. The fact Taker could wrestle a match, a good match at that, after being knocked out and whilst being unconscious is something I can't comprehend. It's amazing and a true testament to the man.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

NotoriousTCG said:


> I remember I tried to continue to play soccer a few years ago after I had woke up after being knocked out. And after about 10 minutes I couldn't stand up as I was unconscious. The fact Taker could wrestle a match, a good match at that, after being knocked out and whilst being unconscious is something I can't comprehend. It's amazing and a true testament to the man.



Dude tell me about it. I got knocked unconscious snowboarding a few years back when I crapped out on a 20 foot jump. It took me over 30 minutes to make it down the mountain, a ride that would normally take 2 minutes tops. I kept falling over and was so dizzy I ended up puking when I got to the bottom. So yea, to say it's amazing that Taker finished the match is an understatement.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*ATF, *what in the world did you like so much about this year's Rumble? The only major positive I saw coming out of it was Roman Reigns & El Torito. Everything else was kind of just... there.

Maybe if people start watching all these Warrior matches we can FINALLY all agree that Warrior vs. Hogan is one of the all time great Mania main events. I'm talkin top tier here, **** 1/2. Such a classic.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

A lot of stuff actually. Up until entry #23 or something like that, it was blazing fun. You had, aside from Roman Reigns' performance and El Torito as you mentioned, Kofi Kingston's HAM jump, Sheamus returning, Kane tying HBK in most eliminations by throwing Punk out... sort-of, and that insane crowd. Yeah, the ending sucked and everything it built to was an inch away from ruining WM 30, but I still loved this Rumble myself.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rumble match from this year was great imo, I think it gets overlooked by some because the crowd shit all over the end with Batista and no Daniel Bryan (who was never advertised for the match to begin with :lmao).

Shield/Wyatts III from Main Event was awesome.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cal, your next username should be exCALibur. You know you dig it..

I'm finally gonna suck it up and rewatch Brock/Taker tonight. I really don't want to, not because I think it's so bad, but because it's so incredibly sad. The Deadman is done. I still can't believe it. But I want to watch the match now that I know all the inside scoop about Taker being knocked cold and Brock ending up winning. The whole time I watched it live, I was just annoyed with the crowd for being so silent. This is the fucking Streak people. Taker could have walked to the ring at WM 30 and proceeded to shadow box with himself and I still would have popped like crazy. Maybe Cena/Bray wore them out or something. 

After that it'll be on to Shield/Wyatt's III and then Danielson's 1 hour WM 30 documentary that just got posted on the Network


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just watched the RTWM Daniel Bryan doc from the Network, really good stuff. Take parts of that and throw in another 2 hours of documentary + a bunch of matches and we have ourselves a CM Punk level Bluray/DVD Release.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Just watched the RTWM Daniel Bryan doc from the Network, really good stuff. Take parts of that and throw in another 2 hours of documentary + a bunch of matches and we have ourselves a CM Punk level Bluray/DVD Release.



That's what I was hoping for. I think WWE should try to work something out with ROH to try and get some of Danielson's matches on the set. Atleast 2-3 of them, a Shima match, the KENTA match, and the anniversary match with McGuinness where he turns heel. Then fill it out with OTL vs Punk, SS vs Cena, Trips match at Mania, 2/3 falls with Sheamus, the main event 3 way, some Hell No stuff, Henry cage match, and some awesome Raw stuff liked the RA Gauntlet and the December Orton match. Couple about 15 matches with a 2 hour documentary and I'd preorder that sucker.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Shit, I need to watch that Bryan thing on the Network. Can't wait until he eventually gets a DVD.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Posted my thoughts on the WM Main Event in another thread...



> I thought it was great, although at some points in the match it felt slightly odd. I don't want to say it was just spot, downtime, spot, downtime, moment, downtime moment etc. but there's patches of the match that I can barely remember, and I've watched it three times in three days. I thought the shenanigans were done really well, esp. the Scott Armstrong bit and the false finishes were as perfect as you could get, especially the RKO following the Spear from Batista to Bryan. Also thought Orton had a really good showing, I drew parallels between his performance and the way he was in the shadows during the build up - Nothing fancy, nothing memorable but constantly focused on the task in hand, if that makes sense? But yeah, thought he hasn't been given enough credit. Batista was harmless, so by proxy he performed 2000x better than I expected. Great match aided by fantastic booking and topped off with a classic moment and title win. If I threw stars at it, it would probably equal the opener and Cena/Wyatt at around **** 1/4, but this would be below them if I had to rank them, if ya' feel me. It would have been a lot better if the portions in between the memorable moments had more bite to them. Oh, and I disliked the stretcher spot, felt it unnecessary and slightly over the top.


So top ten for the year probably looks like...

Shield/Wyatts EC
Zayn/Cesaro NXT
Bryan/Wyatt Rumble
Cesaro/Cena
Cena/Wyatt
HHH/Bryan
Bryan/Batista/Orton
Shield/Wyatts II
Real Americans/Sheamus and Christian
Shield/Wyatts III


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Holy shit, is Lesnar's WM performance record awful or what?

2003 Angle - good match, but only *** good, their worst match together
2004 Goldberg - horrendous
2013 Triple H - bad match
2014 Taker - painfully average match, he KTFOed Taker, although the ending is, as we all know, fucking SHOCKING

Brock Lesnar = WrestleMania choker.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ironic: Lesnar competed at WM in 2003 and 2004, and then 10 years later in both cases (2013 and 2014). Ha. Anyways, he's got SummerSlam to rectify that:

vs Rock - ****1/2
vs Angle - ****1/2
vs HHH - ***3/4
vs Punk - ****3/4

But it is true: Brock's WM record is one big dissapointment if you ask me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

BORK matches at Mania:

vs. Angle WM19- ****
vs. Goldberg WM20- DUD
vs. HHH WM29- *
vs. Taker WM30- ***

DAYUM, but as said, he's been good to Summerslam:

vs. Rock SS02- ****
vs. Angle SS03- ****1/4
vs. HHH SS12- ***
vs. Punk SS13- ****3/4


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I really don't get the hate on Brock/Triple H from WM, they just beat the crap out of each other, what's not to like?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I enjoy all three of their matches tbh.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

No Bryan Danielson set will be complete without a MORISHIMA match, those matches with him are easily his best ever 


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----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I enjoy all three of their matches tbh.


But does you opinion really count when it comes to Triple H? :side:



> No Bryan Danielson set will be complete without a MORISHIMA match, those matches with him are easily his best ever


Yes! Yes! Yes!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> No Bryan Danielson set will be complete without a MORISHIMA match, those matches with him are easily his best ever
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I did make my own custom DVD of their matches:



> 1. ROH Mayhattan Mayhem II – 8/25/07 – ROH World Championship: Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima (c).
> 2. ROH Man Up – 9/15/07 – ROH World Championship: Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima (c).
> 3. ROH Glory by Honor VI, Night 2 – 11/3/07 – Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima.
> 4. ROH Rising Above – 12/29/07 – Relaxed Rules: Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson.
> ...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

William Murderface said:


> But does you opinion really count when it comes to Triple H? :side:


Touche. I really should just stop posting about Triple H topics.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Touche. I really should just stop posting about Triple H topics.


Can you name a Triple H match you don't like? just curious


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> I really don't get the hate on Brock/Triple H from WM, they just beat the crap out of each other, what's not to like?



It was dull, had no fludity at all, never got out of first gear, and resulted in Brock losing which is inexcusable. I don't give it a Dud or anything like that, it got **3/4 from me on the last watch (saw it live, then watched it again when I got the Blu Ray)



SMITTY said:


> No Bryan Danielson set will be complete without a MORISHIMA match, those matches with him are easily his best ever
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


That's why I said "a Shima match" . And no, his match with McGuinness at the 2008 Anniversary show is Danielson's best match IMHO. One of the greatest matches ever, honestly. Maybe someone can correct me, but it's gotta be right near the top for best matches in ROH history too, right? 



The Lady Killer said:


> Touche. I really should just stop posting about Triple H topics.


Nah, I think my opinion matters when it comes to Foley and Eddie, so yours counts when it comes to Hunter. Plus , if we didn't have some Hunter fans in here it would be boring to just listen to everyone shit on him all the time. I'm not a Hunter fan, but I'm not biased against him either. I gladly admitted how wrong I was after watching him tear it up with Bryan. Like I said, that's the best I've seen Hunter look in YEARS. Like, 5 years plus easily. If he worked his matches from now on like he did vs Bryan at Mania, I'd be totally cool with him working as often as he wants. He really was "The Cerebral Assassin" that night. Everything he did was so cold and calculating, he seemed like he was totally locked in and focused on dismantling everyone's hero to prove once and for all he's "The Game".


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's why I said "a Shima match" . And no, his match with McGuinness at the 2008 Anniversary show is Danielson's best match IMHO. One of the greatest matches ever, honestly. Maybe someone can correct me, but it's gotta be right near the top for best matches in ROH history too, right?


02/23/08, right? Ive still gotta make my way through Platt's McGuinness vs Danielson Set when i can.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> 02/23/08, right? Ive still gotta make my way through Platt's McGuinness vs Danielson Set when i can.



That's the one man, the 6th Anniversary Show. You really need to move that match to the top of your "To Watch" pile. Or even better, start with their first matche on 4/29/06 and make your way to that one. But get on it ASAP. I promise you, you don't have any better matches you haven't seen in North American wrestling than that one.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's the one man, the 6th Anniversary Show. You really need to move that match to the top of your "To Watch" pile. Or even better, start with their first matches in 2006 and make your way to that one. But get on it ASAP. I promise you, you don't have any better matches you haven't seen in North American wrestling than that one.


Yeah mate, ive been meaning to for a few weeks now and getting this bad boy: http://bigcaldiscs.webs.com/listings/danielsonvmcguinnesscomp.html


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

William Murderface said:


> Can you name a Triple H match you don't like? just curious


I'd say vs Warrior WMXII but I figure the timing is bad. :sad:

Some of his earlier stuff, probably. Can't remember exact matches. The 3 Stages of Hell with HBK is pretty bad. 2007 comeback vs Booker. I'm sure there are plenty others.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Nah, I think my opinion matters when it comes to Foley and Eddie, so yours counts when it comes to Hunter. Plus , if we didn't have some Hunter fans in here it would be boring to just listen to everyone shit on him all the time. I'm not a Hunter fan, but I'm not biased against him either. I gladly admitted how wrong I was after watching him tear it up with Bryan. Like I said, that's the best I've seen Hunter look in YEARS. Like, 5 years plus easily. If he worked his matches from now on like he did vs Bryan at Mania, I'd be totally cool with him working as often as he wants. He really was "The Cerebral Assassin" that night. Everything he did was so cold and calculating, he seemed like he was totally locked in and focused on dismantling everyone's hero to prove once and for all he's "The Game".


I've been saying - he looked the best he has in years because he was working as a heel, which he seems most comfortable and natural as.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I'd say vs Warrior WMXII but I figure the timing is bad. :sad:
> 
> Some of his earlier stuff, probably. Can't remember exact matches. The 3 Stages of Hell with HBK is pretty bad. 2007 comeback vs Booker. I'm sure there are plenty others.


See your not an oblivious Triple H fan :hb

Triple H's greatest moment though was burying Carlito on ppv :lmao :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> I'd say vs Warrior WMXII but I figure the timing is bad. :sad:
> 
> Some of his earlier stuff, probably. Can't remember exact matches. The 3 Stages of Hell with HBK is pretty bad. 2007 comeback vs Booker. I'm sure there are plenty others.
> 
> ...



You might be right. He was technically a face in that Jeff Hardy No Mercy match, right? That's the last time I enjoyed a Hunter match as much as I enjoyed the Danielson WM 30 match. Hunter in general is just an awful face, and a lot of that is because his character is horribly suited to be a baby face. He's the fucking cerebral assassin, making him go into matches "just looking for a fight!" Or being called out by a heel just doesn't seem right, at all. He's at his best when he is trying to crush the hopes and dreams of a fan favorite baby face, ala the Foley series in 2000, LMS with Jericho, or the Flair series in 2005.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HHH/Lesnar WM29 >>>>>>> Taker/Lesnar WM30

It's a no contest.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> HHH/Lesnar WM29 >>>>>>> Taker/Lesnar WM30
> 
> It's a no contest.


I have to agree with you here. I am one of the few people who really enjoyed HHH/Lesnar, I think I gave it ***3/4 after the last watch.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Brock/HHH WM is absolute garbage. Makes Taker/Brock WM look exciting by comparison. It isn't close at all. Both matches are bad, but Taker/Brock is definitely the far better of the two.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I don't know which is worse out of vs HHH or vs Taker but I was there live for vs HHH and my block (and all the ones to either side) were deadly silent. Like, that was the quietest anyone had been since the pre-show pretty much.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think more people should commend Taker for staying with the whole match, despite the injury.

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----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You might be right. He was technically a face in that Jeff Hardy No Mercy match, right? That's the last time I enjoyed a Hunter match as much as I enjoyed the Danielson WM 30 match. Hunter in general is just an awful face, and a lot of that is because his character is horribly suited to be a baby face. He's the fucking cerebral assassin, making him go into matches "just looking for a fight!" Or being called out by a heel just doesn't seem right, at all. He's at his best when he is trying to crush the hopes and dreams of a fan favorite baby face, ala the Foley series in 2000, LMS with Jericho, or the Flair series in 2005.


Yeah vs Hardy was face/face but Trips pulled out some heel tendencies in that one. I really like his two Taker WM matches as well, which were also face/face, but he didn't do any pandering. It was just two faces battling for respect (and THE STREAK of course). His character just doesn't suit being a fan favorite like a Hardy or a Bryan or a Zayn. Neither does his look. 



Saint Dick said:


> HHH/Lesnar WM29 >>>>>>> Taker/Lesnar WM30
> 
> It's a no contest.


imo


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Both matches are crappy, but Undertaker/Lesnar has one of the biggest moments in history which puts it ahead of the other match imo.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Taker was concussed for his match with Brock, Brock was knocked out for his match with Trips while Trips had second degree burns and thought he had broken his arm. Needless to say Taker, Hunter and Brock job to injuries.

:vince2 

Taker/Lesnar was a boring piece of shit live. I don't know who it is that keeps blaming the fans but it's not our fault. It's not even like the streak match came after a really hot match that wore everybody out. From where I was sitting the general consensus was that everyone knew Taker would win therefore there was no investment in anything that happened. Obviously that turned out to be wrong lol. It's very strange to me because I've been in the crowd for the 25-28 streak matches which blew the roof off the place. This one in comparison was met with complete apathy which probably makes the finish even more stunning. 
If you're a Taker fan you'll probably let this one slide and I'll need to watch it again on TV but from the live viewing it was straight up boring apart from the end. Flame away lol.

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----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Nah, you could tell the crowd was dead on TV too. Didn't even pop for kickouts of the first two F-5s. No reaction for the third F-5 either until the gasping after the 3-count.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

It is funny that both Lesnar Mania matches ended up having completely dead crowds. Being there for WM29, it was dead silent, people were getting up and leaving during it to do whatever until the main event. And then for WM30, outside of Taker's entrance and maybe the first minute or so of the match, the crowd was dead, and didn't get into anything they were doing until the streak was over. 

Come to think of it, in all of Lesnar's matches since his return except for the Punk match, there's always been a good portion of the match that was met with a dead crowd. It's a BORK thing, obviously.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

They were shocked during the Cena match for sure. They hadn't seen Cena take a beating like that. I think a lot of times with Lesnar's slower approach where he's just throwing people around, fans aren't sure what to think. They know they're witnessing a freak of nature, so they may want to cheer, but they know he's a prick so maybe they're just confused. Who knows.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm just happy I decided to wait until the divas match to get some food. Holy fuck could you imagine missing the end of the streak because you were busy getting a hot dog! I'd never forgive myself lop.

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----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm on the Taker vs Brock side for preference. But on the only time I've seen Lesnar vs H, I didn't dislike it. I could after a rewatch, but for right now, I'm fine w/it.

And yeah, Brock dominating on offense isn't something fans really could react well too. On his return that is. It's a literal mauling of another person. Not everyone in the audience is going to cheer in seeing something like that. Toss in the fact he's working vs Undertaker at WM, so you expected some massive EXCITEMENT etc, only to get a methodical pace coupled w/a gripping story of immortality slipping away on every moment. Crowd seemed fine to me. More in awe than anything. But again, as I've said a 100x over. A crowd doesn't make or break a match for me if I'm liking the work inside the ropes. And last thing I was focused on was a bunch of people I don't know when I'm watching the match that I had the most personal interest in.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Tbf the Cena match bordered on uncomfortable from the get-go so I'm not surprised the crowd wasn't going wild. If anything it's a true testament to Lesnar's ability because he got a Chicago crowd of all places to cheer Cena by the end of the match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Certainly. I still think Cena, being who he is, helped there too. b/c Brock was killing him. Like honestly killing the guy. Cena always claims he never quits. But most of the time it's usually just kayfabe banter and he wins. But there? Ohhhh man. Yeah, dude didn't quit. I think the mixture of Brock being so damn beastly created new found sympathy for Cena among some fans & Cena's general will to win is what made the eventual win come off in such a positive fashion, reaction wise. I've already discussed this match ad nauseam & how I feel it's perfection. But Brock certainly is no joke. Has value in many areas.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

A smark crowd like Chicago obviously appreciates a dude willing to take an insane beating, so I can see why they eventually rallied behind him. Still say Brock should've won, though :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah. Don't you know losing to The Rock, defeating Brock Lesnar in a hell of a triumph, losing your wife, THEN losing to Johnny Ace as an old man is the real proper way to book a downward spiral angle? 8*D


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Apparently my idea of a downward spiral is a tad different :vince


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> Taker was concussed for his match with Brock, Brock was knocked out for his match with Trips while Trips had second degree burns and thought he had broken his arm. Needless to say Taker, Hunter and Brock job to injuries.
> 
> :vince2
> 
> ...




I've only seen one Streak match live, WM 14 vs Kane, and the "Streak" as we know it didn't even exist then so it hardly counts. My thoughts watching Brock/Taker were: "why the fuck is the crowd so dead for this match? This is THE STREAK. Taker could wrestle a broom stick for the Streak and I'd still be screaming my head off". Maybe that's a totally unjustified reaction though. I've seen matches WAY worse that have crowds in a complete frenzy, and they aren't for the Streak (HHH/Cena WM 22, Cena/RVD ONS etc). A bad crowd will never ruin a match for me, ever. One of my favorite matches to watch is Regal/Finlay Uncensored and that crowd was near comatose for the vast majority of it. I just feel in this case, people would have a different opinion of the WM 30 streak match if the crowd had created that "Heavyweight boxing" atmosphere. That's what the story to the match was all about, it was like Ali vs Larry Holmes. Where Holmes was the dominant upstart like Brock, and Ali was the legend who was past his prime but unwilling to admit it or give in, like Taker. It was a slow, plodding pace, sure, but I still feel it's unjustly called "crap". It was a good match, made even better when you realize Taker wasn't there mentally for the majority of the action. If that crowd had created the proper atmosphere, it might have helped the viewers at home see the story they were going for more.

Maybe I'm just over thinking things, but it does bother me seeing so many people call that match "crap". I actually wonder if Taker was really going for the "Ali vs Larry Holmes" story, as the comparisons are eerily similar for those that want to look into it.

Just finished the Daniel Bryan WM 30 documentary. Man, I don't know how you can watch this and not just become the biggest Daniel Bryan fan. He really is one of the realest, most humble and hard working cats I've ever seen. So cool to see his ROH buddies Rollins and Cesaro aka Black and Castagnolli put him over in a big way for just how great Danielson is at wrestling.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just because its a streak match doesnt mean that their is a requirement for everyone to flip shit

Watching Wrestlewar 92 atm, first time watching it, on Pillman/Z-man atm :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But that's what the emphasis implies. Then when they don't, it's apparently viewed as a "negative". So, I almost think people flipping their shit comes w/the territory, actually.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

But if the fans think the match is boring(I thought the match was OK but I understand why some disliked it) why should they have an obligation just to be loud? Fans will cheer what they want and not cheer what they want based on the product in the ring, not JUST because its taker at mania(they were loud during his entrance iirc).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> But that's what the emphasis implies. Then when they don't, it's apparently viewed as a "negative". So, I almost think people flipping their shit comes w/the territory, actually.



I mean, you don't think Taker/Brock was "crap", do you? I've just been doing mental gymnastics trying to figure out why it got the reaction it did, both from the crowd and from people here on the forum. Was it the lackluster build? Was it that, unlike in the past 5 Streak matches, the crowd wasn't crazy about both performers? Was it the pace or the structure? Or is it just because it's not some ****1/2+ classic that people thought it lackluster? I think this match was better than WM 27 for sure, and probably better than WM 28, but then again I'm not a really a fan of either of those matches so I don't know what that says, exactly.

Smitty- by your logic, the fans are always right then? What about all the great matches that have been held to dead silence? Does Finlay/Regal not count as a great match cause the fans werent feeling it? This isn't Japan, it's America, I just don't understand the logic of paying all that money to go to WM 30 and then sitting there quietly with your hands in your lap while the biggest match of the night is going on. I mean they were way louder for the Shield/NAO match. They never even gave Taker/Brock a chance, after the entrances it was just silence, right from the first lock up.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

For Taker to continue and finish that match is a miracle if you ask me. Even not knowing what happened when watching live, when Taker went for the last ride attempt, followed by the tombstone, you knew for sure something was wrong. 

It's just a shame Taker had to endure that in his last match.

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----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

In the past when I knew Taker would win going in, I was still drawn into the match and believed Michaels/HHH/Punk could win.
Not so with Lesnar/Taker nothing they did drew me in.

From WM23 to last sunday i'd say it's the worst Streak match of the bunch.

Shield/Wyatts 3 ***1/2
The first match is still #1 in the series, but picking a #2 is hard here.

Wyatts/Cena,Sheamus,Big E ***1/2
Don't think there's been an opening RAW match this good since Bryan/Sheamus(July 2013) or Edge/Orton/Jericho(RAW 2010).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> But if the fans think the match is boring(I thought the match was OK but I understand why some disliked it) why should they have an obligation just to be loud? Fans will cheer what they want and not cheer what they want based on the product in the ring, not JUST because its taker at mania(they were loud during his entrance iirc).


Are you implying fan reaction ties into a match being good/great/bad or what? b/c the subject of potentially why the crowd reacted the way they did was established on the page back. Slow pacing + Brock's domination. It's a awe inspiring sight. Especially when the last thing you'd expect would have been a more grounded affair.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I mean, you don't think Taker/Brock was "crap", do you? I've just been doing mental gymnastics trying to figure out why it got the reaction it did, both from the crowd and from people here on the forum. Was it the lackluster build? Was it that, unlike in the past 5 Streak matches, the crowd wasn't crazy about both performers? Was it the pace or the structure? Or is it just because it's not some ****1/2+ classic that people thought it lackluster? I think this match was better than WM 27 for sure, and probably better than WM 28, but then again I'm not a really a fan of either of those matches so I don't know what that says, exactly.
> 
> Smitty- by your logic, the fans are always right then? What about all the great matches that have been held to dead silence? Does Finlay/Regal not count as a great match cause the fans werent feeling it?


From what it appears, I'm the biggest supporter of the match. I thought it was very good. The story told was superb & I was down w/the way the match was worked. Even if meant to go that route b/c of a concussion. It still won me over.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> For Taker to continue and finish that match is a miracle if you ask me. Even not knowing what happened when watching live, when Taker went for the last ride attempt, followed by the tombstone, you knew for sure something was wrong.
> 
> It's just a shame Taker had to endure that in his last match.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App



You're right. I think the reason I have put so much thought into all this is, I'm just plain bummed the Deadman went out this way. He deserves all the respect in the world I don't like that he got seriously injured in his last match and that the fans are reacting so negatively to his hard work.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

I could be completely wrong but I don't think too many people view the substance of the match as technically bad, just boring. I think many fans wanted to see the unstoppable phenom and instead got a slow match where the story was that the Undertaker was old and broken down. The match reminds me of Rocky V in some ways.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's general subject standard. Everyone there walked in w/expectations of electricity & drama of that variety. Only to be receiving the opposite. This is why it's best to never have expectations. _(I'm actually being serious)_


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

If the fans think the match is crap, then they paid the money to say it be crap(though in the Finlay/Regal example their way wrong but its WCW fans). Also, you said the crowd doesnt cloud your opinion of it, so why complain?

A bad crowd doesnt make me hate/like a match, a GREAT crowd may, but a silent crowd doesnt really change me, I'm just saying that if the fans think the match is boring, why should they still freak out?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

There is a post in that 'Will Taker have another match' thread where someone read that Taker obviously had a war planned for the match, to make it one last classic, even planning a suicide dive of all things, not sure about that but he did lose weight from last year.

If he does appear on Austin's podcast, I guess we'll get the full answers, but I doubt we will get a big retirement speech etc on Raw.

If his health is ok, he can have one last match imo, but only if he wants that, not because us fans want it.

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## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> I could be completely wrong but I don't think too many people view the substance of the match as technically bad, just boring. I think many fans wanted to see the unstoppable phenom and instead got a slow match where the story was that the Undertaker was old and broken down. The match reminds me of Rocky V in some ways.


The match was boring at one point I laid out on my couch, i've only done that once during a WM before.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> If the fans think the match is crap, then they paid the money to say it be crap(though in the Finlay/Regal example their way wrong but its WCW fans). Also, you said the crowd doesnt cloud your opinion of it, so why complain?
> 
> A bad crowd doesnt make me hate/like a match, a GREAT crowd may, but a silent crowd doesnt really change me, I'm just saying that if the fans think the match is boring, why should they still freak out?


WCW fans...wait what?

And nobody is saying they "shouldn't". It's just when you ask why fans would have the idea of flipping their lid for an Undertaker match at WM, the pre-conceived notion is all you need to look for. The answer is right there.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

What I meant by WCW fans are that the WCW crowds always seemed to be very uneducated, not a knock on anyone who was a fan of the promotion, I just worded what I meant wrong. 

Yeah I get your point, I just feel like its dumb to knock the crowd for a match that is being widely criticized


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> If the fans think the match is crap, then they paid the money to say it be crap(though in the Finlay/Regal example their way wrong but its WCW fans). Also, you said the crowd doesnt cloud your opinion of it, so why complain?
> 
> A bad crowd doesnt make me hate/like a match, a GREAT crowd may, but a silent crowd doesnt really change me, I'm just saying that if the fans think the match is boring, why should they still freak out?



I don't believe I've complained once. If it came across that way it was by mistake. I stated that Ive been wondering about why not only the crowd reacted the way it reacted, but also why most on this forum reacted this way as well. That's all. No complaints from me junior. 

Best RVD matches? In no particular order...

1. Vs Eddie Ladder Match Raw 2002
2. Vs Eddie Backlash 2002
3. Vs Eddie Judgement Day 2002
4. Vs Randy Orton Raw 2004
5. Vs Jericho Raw 2013
6. Vs Jerry Lynn ECW 1998
7. Vs Bob Holly ECW 2006
8. Vs Taker Vengeance 2001 :mark:

Off the top of my head. I'm sure there are some great ones I forgot


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I've seen that some people speculated that Taker got the concussion when Brock slammed him after one of the Hell's Gate submission moves.

I don't think so, because Taker was clearly out of it before then. I mentioned before that there were points where Brock was clearly just stalling to give Taker some time to get himself together. Right before even the first Hell's Gate was applied was one of those points.

Brock keeps waiting for Taker to put it on him, and when he doesn't, Brock has to pretend to be staggered just to kill more time, so he's not standing there like an idiot waiting for forever, lol. It was just funny to me because it was such an obvious stall tactic, because he just starts randomly staggering for no reason.

Even then, Taker still doesn't apply the Hell's Gate right away. You can literally hear Brock telling him to do it.

Also, when Brock had Taker in the Kimura Lock, you can hear Brock calling shit. "Turn me."

Point is, Taker was out of it from very early on, and there are several examples of it, aside from him just looking out of it. I noticed a ton of Brock calling. 

Of course I was looking for it this time, but that Hell's Gate slowness was something I definitely noticed the first time. What I especially noticed the first time was that Taker had a hard time even getting the Hell's Gate properly on Brock. Didn't look right at all, especially the second one. He couldn't get the energy to get his hands and arms around Brock's head.

It's really amazing that he even got through and finished the match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Sounded like you were a bit irked at the crowd which made me think you were complaining, my bad. 

Can we all agree Taker is top 5 all time though?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well yeah. One match that not everyone liked at WrestleMania isn't going to change or hurt his status at being one of - ACTUALLY THE - greatest to step in the ring. I hate the WM 27 match vs Triple H, but something like that doesn't make me think anything less of Undertaker, haha.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

SUUUUUURE, just blame Hunter


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Top five in what category? Definitely greatest big man ever and definitely top five wrestler ever in WWE. And he's my fifth favorite wrestler of all-time (used to be #2, but :jericho unk4 :bryan3). Bah, forget it. Undertaker transcends numbers. He's GOAT.

The crowd not reacting to Lesnar/Taker didn't really bother me, and it was very understandable. They just didn't give much for the crowd to like. What moment in the match can you honestly say deserved a good reaction? It also didn't help that the build up was bad. Take note that neither me nor SMITTY are trying to say that it's a bad match, or that the dead crowd impacts the quality of the match. It's just that in hindsight with all the information about Undertaker's health and with knowledge that the streak is over, it's easier to critique the crowd for not buying into a story that nobody "got" until the match ended. Besides, Brock Lesnar matches were never known for their crowd reactions, and Brock himself was never some super over entity.

For the record, I'm still unsure as to how I would "rate" Taker/Brock. One part of me wants to give it a bad rating because let's call a spade a spade: the action was shit. Undertaker even forgot to sell the leg that Lesnar worked on throughout the match. However, the story told of this being Undertaker's last stand and that he was relying more on his aura and his past success even though in reality, he was just a broken down man compared to the monster in Brock Lesnar was brilliant. Eh, I guess that I really do like the match. It would kinda be hypocritical of me to say that Lesnar/Taker outright sucked especially when I'm a huge proponent of Punk/Jericho from Payback, which many argue had sloppy and lagging action, although I thought the two stories they told were impeccable.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I never said such a thing, Greg. :sansa


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I just want to know what Meltzer rated Mania so that I can tweak my ratings accordingly.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't even think the crowd was that dead. At least there was some noise from the audience even if not much. Compare that to the HHH match last year when you could hear a pin drop.

Need to rewatch it but even without the streak ending I was enjoying it just about enough. Knowing Taker was concussed makes me appreciate it even more. :sad: @ Taker walking to the back with his head down and streak over. Still can't believe it and to top that, Warrior dies just days after he was reintroduced to the "universe". This has been an eventful and bittersweet week to say the least.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just finished Shield/Wyatt's III from Main Event.

Man, was Ambrose channeling his inner Goldust with that FIP segment or what? Dude was just awesome with his selling. One thing I loved about this was how easily you could tell these guys have been wrestling each other ALOT. All the sequences were fluid, no one was out of place, everyone hit their queues and it just seemed like for the last 5 minutes or so there was just non stop chaos. I know some people don't like that in tags, but this is The Shield vs The Wyatt's, people. Chaos is supposed to reign when these two factions clash. Rowan continued to impress, Rollins continued to look like a freaking lunatic and also one of the very best workers in the world, Reigns was his usual self, with a solid 20 out of 10 on the bad ass scale. Bray was great too. High marks for all, this was better than their Raw match, though couldn't come close to passing their EC match, but really that's to be expected. You simply cannot recreate the magic they had that night, the crowd chanting "THIS IS AWESOME" before the match even started says it all. It's amazing to me how in a little over a year, WWE has created 6, count em 6, bonafide stars with these factions. I love it, simply love it. Now I just want one last thing from this rivalry: a TLC match, preferably at a big PPV like Summerslam. That would be the cherry on the proverbial sundae. For now I will just enjoy the fact that for once, WWE got something 100% right: The Shield and The Wyatt's fucking own. That is all.

For a rating, I'm going a high ***3/4+


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Another 6-man TLC with those two squaring off again would be insanity.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Don't know whether or not this is an intelligent topic/debate, but wondering what some of you ITT think about which one of Bryan and Punk is a better wrestler, in overall (when in ring work, promo work, charisma, and any other factors are taken into account).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

In Ring: Clearly Bryan
Promo Work: Clearly Punk

Everything else is a wash.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I don't believe I've complained once. If it came across that way it was by mistake. I stated that Ive been wondering about why not only the crowd reacted the way it reacted, but also why most on this forum reacted this way as well. That's all. No complaints from me junior.


From where I was sitting the general feeling was that everybody knew Taker would win and so the near falls etc had nothing behind them. People started talking amongst themselves early on and I alsmot went to get food during the damn thing and im a big Lesnar mark. But my silly loyalty to Taker and the fact it was a streak match kept me in my seat THANK GOD. 

Anyway, if crowd reaction doesn't impact your enjoyment of a match then what does it matter if the crowd was quiet. Likewise if you're a big mark for somebody you're more likely to care about things that others might not. If people think its a crap match then they think its crap. Just because it's Undertaker at wrestlemania isn't going to change that. I can't wait to watch the whole thing back when I get home though because I barely paid attention when I was there, probably why it took me so long to figure out Lesnar actually won because I wasn't even watching when he made the cover. When you think about it, it is actually rather genius what they've done lol. Fuckers. 

I was also surprised at the reaction on Raw. From hearing people speak on Bourbon Street before Raw I was expecting MEGA heat fo Brock and instead it was mild mixed with some cheers and no Taker chants at all. Very strange.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The way I figure it:

Bryan>>Punk in ring
Punk>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bryan on the mic

Charisma wise, not even Punk can elicit a response by the crowd like Bryan can, so I'll give that to Bryan, although Punk is very charismatic himself. Punk, at least to me, also looks a bit more intimidating... I'd rather fight Bryan than Punk at first glance, although build wise Punk looks on the thinner side, where Bryan right now is pretty thick, so taking those into account, I'm not sure who I'd say has the better look. Presence wise, tough to say. 

Overall, I'd say Punk.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

Damn, the new Ultimate Warrior comp is stacked with matches. Gonna have to watch it at somepoint now.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm not being a dick, but are there any really great Punk matches where he's not facing a gifted worker? His best matches are vs. Cena/Taker/Jericho/Bryan/Henry/etc. Has he ever really carried the load?

I'd take Bryan any day aside from mic work (even though Punk's face promos were kinda awful at times).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Another 6-man TLC with those two squaring off again would be insanity.


It's a gimmick match that I actually would almost claim fits the nature of their matches, tbhayley. Not another "oh man these guys in a gimmick match would be amazing" comment, when in actuality it wouldn't.



RFWHC said:


> Don't know whether or not this is an intelligent topic/debate, but wondering what some of you ITT think about which one of Bryan and Punk is a better wrestler, in overall (when in ring work, promo work, charisma, and any other factors are taken into account).


Meh. It's a pick 'em. You can put all the factors you want next to each. Doesn't matter which way you go, you win. _(such as Punk's in ring game not being as crisp but still ferociously great & Danielson being as charismatic as Punk, but only in his own different way, etc)_


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> I'm not being a dick, but are there any really great Punk matches where he's not facing a gifted worker? His best matches are vs. Cena/Taker/Jericho/Bryan/Henry/etc. Has he ever really carried the load?


Not anything I can recall. But it's not even a shot at him. Most wrestlers with a great match catalog have nearly all their 4 star+ classics with equally talented opponents.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Not anything I can recall. But it's not even a shot at him. Most wrestlers with a great match catalog have nearly all their 4 star+ classics with equally talented opponents.


Totally. I wasn't saying he sucks by any means, as it's natural to have your best matches against great opponents. Was just curious.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just watched the big three matches on wrestlewar 92

Pillman/Z-man: ****1/2 

Steiners/Japanese guys: ****1/4 

Wargames: ****3/4 

best three match combo ever?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> The way I figure it:
> 
> Bryan>>Punk in ring
> Punk>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bryan on the mic
> ...


This is pretty much where I stand. I think that Punk is great in terms of match psychology, and this elevates him to the level at which I wouldn't put him as clearly worse than Bryan. But Punk is significantly better than Bryan in terms of promo quality. Pretty much agreed on everything you said.



HayleySabin said:


> Meh. It's a pick 'em. You can put all the factors you want next to each. Doesn't matter which way you go, you win. _(such as Punk's in ring game not being as crisp but still ferociously great & Danielson being as charismatic as Punk, but only in his own different way, etc)_


This somewhat makes sense, but I think, with promo work, Punk is distinctly above Bryan, whereas, it's closer together for other factors.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I'm not being a dick, but are there any really great Punk matches where he's not facing a gifted worker? His best matches are vs. Cena/Taker/Jericho/Bryan/Henry/etc. Has he ever really carried the load?
> 
> I'd take Bryan any day aside from mic work (even though Punk's face promos were kinda awful at times).


Orton @ WM 27. It's not a great match, but it's really good and all thanks to Punker. And I'd say he was loads better than Jericho during all their matches. Like easily better.

Jeff Hardy was a lot of give and take from both. Those two worked off each other really well when it clicked in the Cage. I'd have to watch the Edge matches again, but those may fall under the same umbrella as where Punk was the guy who brought out the good in 'em, as Edge was on the decline by that point.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> I'm not being a dick, but are there any really great Punk matches where he's not facing a gifted worker? His best matches are vs. Cena/Taker/Jericho/Bryan/Henry/etc. Has he ever really carried the load?



Tbh, you can say that about a lot of guys. Doesn't mean they aren't great or anything. I know you weren't trying to say Punk isn't great, I just thought I'd throw that out there. Off the top of my head, Batista is the only guy I can think of that Punk has matched up with and "carried the load" to make a very good match.

Out of your list of guys Cena/Taker/Jericho/Henry, how often have they "carried a match"? I took Bryan out because he obviously has done this a fair amount. Takers done it a bunch I reckon, but Cena and Henry and Jericho? As the saying goes, in wrestling, it takes two to tango. I never like saying one guy carried another because I'm obviously not a wrestler and wasn't in the match. I have no clue what really went down. You could have a match where you think one guy is carrying another and in reality the other guy is calling the entire match to the one you think is carrying it, essentially telling him everything to do that you think looks so great.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

I like Punk's matches better than Bryan's just because I like him better I guess. 

Speaking of which, I just saw Punk Rock at RR13 again. Shield spot was stupid. But other than that I don't see the why people rag on it. Not great, but not terrible or even bad. Crowd was into it. Pretty neat reversals into submissions by Punk. Table spot botch was hilarious considering it happened against Mankind in the 99 Royal Rumble as well. Overall it was average, but it had a big fight feel which helped. **3/4-*** can't decide. Leaning towards ***.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

ER 2012 is close IMO.

Sheamus/Bryan 
Jericho/Punk (though I don't think it's as great as others do)
Lesnar/Cena


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Orton @ WM 27. It's not a great match, but it's really good and all thanks to Punker. And I'd say he was loads better than Jericho during all their matches. Like easily better.
> 
> Jeff Hardy was a lot of give and take from both. Those two worked off each other really well when it clicked in the Cage. I'd have to watch the Edge matches again, but those may fall under the same umbrella as where Punk was the guy who brought out the good in 'em, as Edge was on the decline by that point.


True he likely outshined Jericho.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Tbh, you can say that about a lot of guys. Doesn't mean they aren't great or anything. I know you weren't trying to say Punk isn't great, I just thought I'd throw that out there. Off the top of my head, Batista is the only guy I can think of that Punk has matched up with and "carried the load" to make a very good match.
> 
> Out of your list of guys Cena/Taker/Jericho/Henry, how often have they "carried a match"? I took Bryan out because he obviously has done this a fair amount. Takers done it a bunch I reckon, but Cena and Henry and Jericho? As the saying goes, in wrestling, it takes two to tango. I never like saying one guy carried another because I'm obviously not a wrestler and wasn't in the match. I have no clue what really went down. You could have a match where you think one guy is carrying another and in reality the other guy is calling the entire match to the one you think is carrying it, essentially telling him everything to do that you think looks so great.


No you're totally right. I followed up by saying "that's probably true for a lot of guys." I guess I should've just asked for great matches in which Punk carried the load.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

RFWHC said:


> Don't know whether or not this is an intelligent topic/debate, but wondering what some of you ITT think about which one of Bryan and Punk is a better wrestler, in overall (when in ring work, promo work, charisma, and any other factors are taken into account).


I don't think I can be convinced that anyone is better than Bryan right now. 



The Lady Killer said:


> I'm not being a dick, but are there any really great Punk matches where he's not facing a gifted worker? His best matches are vs. Cena/Taker/Jericho/Bryan/Henry/etc. Has he ever really carried the load?
> 
> I'd take Bryan any day aside from mic work (even though Punk's face promos were kinda awful at times).


But you can say that about so many people and even the guys that you can't make that statement about have like 3 matches with guys that aren't good. Flair would be the obvious exception to that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RFWHC said:


> This somewhat makes sense, but I think, with promo work, Punk is distinctly above Bryan, whereas, it's closer together for other factors.


That's just one area. And depending on who you are, that can mean dick. Exactly why I said there isn't any point in choosing or debating b/c there is no clear cut way to pick. Most of the time it's just too bad to see Danielson's charisma, personality, & charm at playing his roles perfectly get underrated all b/c he doesn't grab a microphone and control people in the palm of his hand the way CM Punk has done.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> I'm not being a dick, but are there any really great Punk matches where he's not facing a gifted worker? His best matches are vs. Cena/Taker/Jericho/Bryan/Henry/etc. Has he ever really carried the load?
> 
> I'd take Bryan any day aside from mic work (even though Punk's face promos were kinda awful at times).


Just to add - Punk's matches with Regal for the IC strap in early 2009, his match with Brock this year, his matches with Rey in 2010 and 2011 are all great. As far as less gifted workers - He certainly carried Ryback to a better match than Ryback should have had (TLC on the first Raw of 2013). But that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Maybe the Morrison ECW title match (the one they got right after the disasters).

Bryan's promo work during his heel WHC run in late 2011/early 2012 was so much better, but mainly because he's given shit material now and is made to be a pandering face with that shit eating grin. Bryan did have some decent promos leading to the Cena match though. But on the whole, of course Punk is naturally better on the mic (though in 2011 after Summerslam his promos were mostly cringeworthy). His heel work>>>>>most people on this earth though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I shouldn't have said anything


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> Just to add - Punk's matches with Regal for the IC strap in early 2009, his match with Brock this year, his matches with Rey in 2010 and 2011 are all great. As far as less gifted workers - He certainly carried Ryback to a better match than Ryback should have had (TLC on the first Raw of 2013). But that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Maybe the Morrison ECW title match (the one they got right after the disasters).
> 
> Bryan's promo work during his heel WHC run in late 2011/early 2012 was so much better, but mainly because he's given shit material now and is made to be a pandering face with that shit eating grin. Bryan did have some decent promos leading to the Cena match though. But on the whole, of course Punk is naturally better on the mic (though in 2011 after Summerslam his promos were mostly cringeworthy). His heel work>>>>>most people on this earth though.


Yeah I wasn't restricting it to my list obviously. The Ryback example is exactly what I was looking for.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I shouldn't have said anything


:lmao

Oh shoot, yeah, Ryback in the TLC is a good one. I like Ryback, but no doubt Punker helped bring out the best him on that night.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> ER 2012 is close IMO.
> 
> Sheamus/Bryan
> Jericho/Punk (though I don't think it's as great as others do)
> Lesnar/Cena


Sheamus/Bryan: ****1/2 
Jericho/Punk: ***3/4 
Brock/Cena: *****

Compare that to my Wrestlewar ratings and I think that wrestlewar wins, just because im not a huge fan of Punk/Jericho. 

Beach Blast 1992 may beat both though :hmm:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> I'm not being a dick, but are there any really great Punk matches where he's not facing a gifted worker? His best matches are vs. Cena/Taker/Jericho/Bryan/Henry/etc. Has he ever really carried the load?
> 
> I'd take Bryan any day aside from mic work (even though Punk's face promos were kinda awful at times).


Ambrose... had several great matches with him. Jeff Hardy he had a couple of ****+ matches with him. I don't particularly consider Henry a gifted worker, despite what I know people say in this thread, plus the Raw match after WM28 is Henry's best match in my books, so that'd go to Punk. Ziggler's on the list if we're going by what most in this thread think of him. Ryback definitely, he gave Big E a couple of good matches in late-2013. 

Bryan's the only guy I think though who can get a good match out of even terrible guys, although to have a great match, I still think his opponent needs to be competent. In any event, Bryan always rises up and delivers the best with whatever he's given to work with, where Punk is more of a big-match player, not consistent like Bryan is.

Edit: Ah, see someone else already beat me to it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> Sheamus/Bryan: ****1/2
> Jericho/Punk: ***3/4
> Brock/Cena: *****
> 
> ...


I'd probably agree since I don't care for Jericho/Punk either.



#BadNewsSanta said:


> Ambrose... had several great matches with him. Jeff Hardy he had a couple of ****+ matches with him. I don't particularly consider Henry a gifted worker, despite what I know people say in this thread, plus the Raw match after WM28 is Henry's best match in my books, so that'd go to Punk. Ziggler's on the list if we're going by what most in this thread think of him.
> 
> Bryan's the only guy I think though who can get a good match out of even terrible guys, although to have a great match, I still think his opponent needs to be competent. In any event, Bryan always rises up and delivers the best with whatever he's given to work with, where Punk is more of a big-match player, not consistent like Bryan is.


That was basically my point in comparing Punk to Bryan as far as ring skills are concerned. Bryan can make anyone look good.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> That was basically my point in comparing Punk to Bryan as far as ring skills are concerned. Bryan can make anyone look good.


Definitely, Bryan's better than him, but Bryan's above everyone in that respect in the company right now (only guy that gives him a run for his money is Cesaro imo). 

However, I don't think the gap between Bryan and Punk is that big in-ring wise.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson has that magic touch. Swear it never fails.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I got the feeling (especially later on) that Punk mailed lots of performances in. I don't think Bryan does that. Cesaro is close to Bryan IMO. Zayn could be too given a bigger platform.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> That's just one area. And depending on who you are, that can mean dick. Exactly why I said there isn't any point in choosing or debating b/c there is no clear cut way to pick. Most of the time it's just too bad to see Danielson's charisma, personality, & charm at playing his roles perfectly get underrated all b/c he doesn't grab a microphone and control people in the palm of his hand the way CM Punk has done.


I agree that it isn't very clear. Personally, I love both, but prefer Punk. But yeah, Bryan is great, and really does have the power to draw the audience to him, and is often underrated b/c he's not as great as someone like Punk on the mic.

Personally, I value Punk so highly probably b/c I love his work in every regard, be it in ring work or mic skills. Don't think any wrestler on the current roster could get me glued to the screen when cutting a promo, especially like Punk could. There are some current guys whose promos I enjoy, though.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I need to finish Beach Blast. I think I passed out after Rude/Steamboat from the GOATness. 

Also need to finish Extreme Rules 2009, which I started last night. Stopped right before Orton/Batista. Jericho/Mysterio from that show is so :mark:

Also, is anyone seeing my sig? I've got the "image not found" photo instead of the gif of Trips' entrance from Mania.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Someone should give me a PPV to watch on the network, be it WWE,WCW, or ECW

Preferably 2006-present for WWE and before 1998 for WCW


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TLC with Ryback is one of those Punk matches where I really enjoyed his performance. Gotta give him credit for being the guy who did the bulk of the work. That table bump over the top rope was ugly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I got the feeling (especially later on) that Punk mailed lots of performances in. I don't think Bryan does that. Cesaro is close to Bryan IMO. Zayn could be too given a bigger platform.


I never really thought that too much. He didn't click w/guys like Curtis Axel or Fandango, but look at the guys listed there. Axel is solid, albeit bland. And Fandango has proven to not be worth a single damn. But when Punker was in the proper situation, he showed he was still in the mix. Putting effort in & all that jazz. Matches vs Ambrose were great, he had the Brock bout which was on another level, the fabulous tag w/Danielson vs Harper & Rowan. I know I'm more in the minority who didn't get the total sense he was phoning in it. But I'm sure he did w/o me taking too much notice. He clearly was losing his passion being in WWE. Ergo, the departure.

ZAYN. Yes, now we're talking. :mark: _(not like Cesaro is chopped liver, but we all know how legit as feck that guy is.)_

Goldust is on this roster too people. Lets not leave him out of the mix just b/c he's in his 40's.



RFWHC said:


> I agree that it isn't very clear. Personally, I love both, but prefer Punk. But yeah, Bryan is great, and really does have the power to draw the audience to him, and is often underrated b/c he's not as great as someone like Punk on the mic.
> 
> Personally, I value Punk so highly probably b/c I love his work in every regard, be it in ring work or mic skills. Don't think any wrestler on the current roster could get me glued to the screen when cutting a promo, especially like Punk could. There are some current guys whose promos I enjoy, though.


Oh def. Punk has that hook. Makes you want to see what he'll do or say next. Big time draw for me too. I only branched away from "mainstream wrestling" in my early teens b/c I discovered him on a whim. Then the rest is history.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

@The Lady Killer

I agree that Punk mailed lots of performances in, especially since SummerSlam prior to walking out. And yeah, I haven't really observed Bryan doing so. 



Odafin Tutuola said:


> Also, is anyone seeing my sig? I've got the "image not found" photo instead of the gif of Trips' entrance from Mania.


Yeah, I'm seeing it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> Someone should give me a PPV to watch on the network, be it WWE,WCW, or ECW
> 
> Preferably 2006-present for WWE and before 1998 for WCW


ECW November 2 Remember 1999.

It'll be worth it for Awesome vs Tanaka.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I dont think you can go wrong with either one, know to think of it Bryan and Punk are so similar is pretty pointless to debate. Both are tops in ring, good/great on the mic and just have that thing that you cant just love them. Punk one of my favorites all time so that is my only preference 

Wanted to stop by and say how magnificent that mania triple threat was, the first 5-10 mins are lukewarm but it just hits its stride once HHH/Steph come. The near-fall are some of the best Ive seen in years, actually believed the match would end 4 different times. Props to Orton for that bump, good lord that looked painful.The post match celebration is one of the best Ive ever seen and so well done

It is actually my MOTN


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Punk > Bryan - Mic work
Bryan > Punk - Ring work

It doesn't matter, they both awesome whether it be from their entertaining promos or great matches. Before Punk left, they were my top 2 favorite guys in the WWE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> Thanks :mark:


(Y)

It's also a good way to remind myself at how much I want to see it again atm.



SKINS said:


> I dont think you can go wrong with either one, know to think of it Bryan and Punk are so similar is pretty pointless to debate. Both are tops in ring, good/great on the mic and just have that thing that you cant just love them. Punk one of my favorites all time so that is my only preference
> 
> Wanted to stop by and say how magnificent that mania triple threat was, the first 5-10 mins are lukewarm but it just hits its stride once HHH/Steph come. The near-fall are some of the best Ive seen in years, actually believed the match would end 4 different times. Props to Orton for that bump, good lord that looked painful.The post match celebration is one of the best Ive ever seen and so well done
> 
> It is actually my MOTN


You watched it again and loved it. :hb

Was staring at SEJ's Danielson gif montage of Sunday and the goosebumps were growing heavily. I'm watching the whole show again before the week is over.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Finished watching Brock/Taker. Couple of other things I wanted to add that I noticed. There's so much to notice now!

You could tell that Brock was assessing Taker's health virtually the whole time. After the first Hell's Gate, I think that they were supposed to go into that second Hell's Gate spot right away. Instead, Taker can barely even get himself up the ropes. Brock again stalls and looks to be assessing him. Finally you can hear him just say "let's do this." and he drags him quite gently for Brock.

What's most telling is after Taker gives Brock the Last Ride, he just flat out collapses. I think that Taker was supposed to cover Brock there. Paul breaks character there, and keeps looking over at Taker and looks genuinely surprised/concerned, IMO. His focus is mostly on Taker, rather than selling the "shock" of Brock getting gotten to.

I praised Taker earlier for getting through the match, but I've also got to praise Brock for holding it together so well. I don't know how these guys do it, but watching Brock continue to sell shock (like after Taker gets out of a pin) and pain and all of that, in the midst of literally having to walk Taker through everything, and also I'm sure mentally trying to figure out WTF to do if shit goes really haywire beyond what actually happened....it's amazing. 

I know a lot of it is instinct, but it's great that guys like Lesnar can keep it together as far as remembering to do the little shit that they're supposed to do, and not getting distracted, despite dealing with the real-life situation that's unfolding at the same time.


Reminds me of what C2D posted from Orton about Van Dam helping him through a concussion during a match:


Spoiler: Orton comment:



I checked my e-mail like I do every tuesday when i get home off the road, and saw how many of my friends and relatives were questioning whether or not i was legitimately hurt during my match with Rob last night (1/12/04) on RAW.well, for those who are interested here is what occurred. Within 3 mintes into the match RVD threw me into the ring post while on the floor, normally I would get my hands up in time to soften the impact, but if you watch it in slow motion, youll see one hand was too low and one to high. I cracked the top of my forehead on the post, leaving a cut that needed 10 stitches, and lots of swelling. I have been knocked out before, and I was definitely knocked goofy, but not unconcious. I was however disoriented enough were I had trouble with balance and vision. During the commercial break I was pretty much inoperable but with about 30 seconds before the break was up, I had this sudden adrenaline rush, and with a few deep breaths I started to gain some perception back. Now I would like to comment on RVDs performance . He is the reason that match was able to go on. We had 20 minutes for that match. 3 minutes after the bell rang, I was in a state were I didnt quite know what was going on. Rob showed what a Ring General he was, by talking me threw the rest of the 17 minutes of that match.I hate "exposing" the business like this, but I feel that as fans, you should hear this so that you can see how difficult our trade can be, and possibly enjoy and respect it more then you do already.




~~~~~~~~

Thanks for the heads up about how good Shield vs. Wyatts was on Main Event. You guys were right. It did not disappoint. And I agree with the consensus that it's amazing that they had three great matches that were all totally different from each other.

I'm higher on the RAW rematch than most, btw.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

SKINS said:


> It is actually my MOTN


Agreed on this. Was on the edge of my seat since around the middle of the match, and it had me reacting to nearly every spot or near fall. It was a good match w/ a great ending.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm definitely gonna buy the DVD when it comes out. Such a great night.

I have Wrestlemania XIX-XXVI and XXVIII on DVD. I haven't bought XXVII or 29 yet. I'm a bad collector


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You not owning 27 just means you're a sane consumer. I bought it and confident I'll only be watching three matches again for the rest of my days. Five dollars well spent just to have a terrific Cody Rhodes match. One where he wins too.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Would also be interested in seeing what some of you have to say with regards to the same debate, but Punk VS Jericho, instead of Punk VS Bryan, and if any of you have a definitive opinion.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

There have been several times where I come across a Wrestlemania 27 DVD and was tempted to buy it, but I remembered Lawler/Cole and Miz/Cena and thought that it wasn't worth the price lol.

In regards to RFWHC's question, honestly I think Punk is better than Jericho at both mic and ring work. That may be controversial, but I stand by it. I've always enjoyed Punk on the mic more as I believe he was more entertaining (not that Jericho wasn't) and thought that Punk was a little bit better than Jericho in the ring. I just enjoyed his matches more, I can't really explain it. I took a break from 2008-2010 so I haven't heard a lot from Jericho's "Honest man" days but the ones I have heard were awesome.

Punk vs. Jericho at Wrestlemania XXVIII though :lenny


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I have the WM27 DVD, but I think I only got it because it came with The Rock's most recent DVD or something.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RFWHC said:


> Would also be interested in seeing what some of you have to say with regards to the same debate, but Punk VS Jericho, instead of Punk VS Bryan, and if any of you have a definitive opinion.


Punk by a million and a half miles. And I love Chris Jericho too. But yeah. This was easy.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WM27 really is not worth owning. Orton/Punk is the only match from that show I really care about and I'm sure it's available on Orton's DVD. Dunno if Rhodes/Mysterio is available elsewhere but Edge's last match and Taker/HHH are available in Edge's and the latest Streak DVD. That's about the only part of the show that gets any praise.

In the middle of this Punk conversation, I just realized that I haven't fully watched a match of his in full since around September when I rewatched the Brock match. Everything he did after was I semi-watching live (the Shield stuff) or skipped when I went through the show after it was over. Think I'll put an end to it by rewatching his WM matches with Orton and Jericho as both need revising.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I remember enjoying ADR/Edge, Orton/Punk, Rhodes/Rey, and Taker/HHH but I haven't seen those matches since the day they aired. Idk, WM 27 left a bad taste with my mouth. Plus, Bryan/Sheamus at the pre-show which turned into a battle royal in which the Great Khali won just so The Rock could cut a long promo at the beginning of the show? FUCK OFF, not worth $17-25.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Considering I don't even like the Undertaker match on that event, it's double the bust for me. Eight matches, and I only like three. While the three are all actually real good - one being great - that's not half bad. But then the rest of the event isn't mediocre or average. It's flat out abysmal. And for a WM, the enormity is heightened. Just a terrible show when all is said and done, unfortunately. We can call it a reverse WM 30 now; for fun.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk does literally EVERYTHING better than Y2J unk2

Watched some of NWO 06 on the network, Orton/Rey was spectacular to say the least and a discredit to it that it isnt mentioned alot. Ive actually in the last few months compressed a tops Orton list, not sure if I should post :deandre


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Punk by a million and a half miles. And I love Chris Jericho too. But yeah. This was easy.


Why exactly? Interested. 

Also, interested in seeing who some of you would put in your Top 5 or Top 10 All Time Favorites list.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Top 5 All Time Favorites:

1. The Undertaker
2. Shawn Michaels
3. Chris Benoit
4. CM Punk
5. Ric Flair


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I told you to watch backlash 2000 SKINS, COME ON! 

Cody, that opening segment to NTR 1999 :mark:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I might say Punk > Jericho too tbh. I always found Jericho overrated to holy heaven but I still like him. I also find Punk overrated but I don't like him so much. Being objective about it though, I don't really know. They're probably about the same for me. Id need to watch some matches before deciding. 

Bryan > both 8*D

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RFWHC said:


> Why exactly? Interested.


It's not exactly too much behind it. I could add plenty more if I was inspired to, but largely it's just down to a viewpoint of preference & talent. Of how I happen to prefer all aspects of Punk over Jericho, and feel Punk has Jericho beat in the central bases of pro rasslin, the like of "in ring work" and promos. This comes off as an unintentional snub to Jericho and I don't want it to be, but it's just a wide enough gap between the two for the subject, that I have to make it that way.



SMITTY said:


> I told you to watch backlash 2000 SKINS, COME ON!
> 
> Cody, that opening segment to NTR 1999 :mark:


Damn. I better get on this show asap before my night plans catch up w/me. :sansa


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

RFWHC said:


> Why exactly? Interested.
> 
> Also, interested in seeing who some of you would put in your Top 5 or Top 10 All Time Favorites list.



All time favorites:

1. Eddie Guerrero (my favorite of all time)
2. Mick Foley
3. Chris Benoit
4. The Undertaker
5. Bret Hart
6. William Regal
7. Rey Mysterio
8. Vader
9. Steve Austin
10. Finlay

Love me some Nature Boy, Terry Funk, Daniel Bryan, Cesaro, Zayn, Dustin Rhodes (Goldust), and Ricky Steamboat as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I made a top ten list about a year ago elsewhere and while I'm confident w/most picks - one I know I should probably remove even though I LOVE him - I'm just not sold on lists b/c of reasons I just stated. Always want to add someone but never wanting to drop. I'm better off w/a top 50 list or something dealing w/the dudes I adore and will always adore to watch. b/c that way most get a plug & the only order that has to be specific would be the first ones listed.

Here's a spoiler though, Undertaker & El Generico/Sami Zayn top the list. Bet nobody saw that coming.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

All-time favorites would have to be Benoit, Orton, Austin, Rock, Undertaker in the top 5. Then there's Brock, Cena (Thuganomics era) and Eddie that are others I'd call favorites. Jericho, Michaels, Angle, Rey and Flair are ones who have a lot of stuff I enjoy but I don't necessarily mark for on that level. If we add members of the current roster, there's Bryan, Cesaro and Sheamus.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Daniel Bryan, Cesaro, and Sami Zayn could be in my all time top favorites list if they keep up the excellent work they've been putting out.

Hell, I think The Shield may be legitimately one of my favorite factions of all time.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top Favorites of all-time?

1) Taker
and then there's Punk, Edge, Austin, Foley, Rock, Hogan, Eddie Guerrero, Jericho, and... um, probably Orton, as he was my second favorite for a couple of years there (04-05), and I was a mark until 2010ish.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I would say that Punk probably tops my all time list, which I doubt is the case for anyone else. Actually quite a few current guys I would put on my all time list. Ziggler, for instance, I would put on the list, and I doubt that anyone but Skins would also have him on their list. I loved Edge in the years 2005, 2006, and 2007, and I would put that version of him in the list. Also a fan of Christian, and was the biggest fan of his back in 2005. Loved his work w/ the Captain Charisma gimmick.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

My favorites list is actually pretty weird it goes something like:
1. Angle (I'm sure I'm the only one )
2. Eddie
3. Bryan
4. Rey
5. Austin
6. Punk
7. Rock
8. Benoit
9. Jericho
10. Lesnar/Legend Killer Orton

Without putting much thought into it


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips, Cena, Rocky, Brock, HBK, Orton would be locks. Flair, Angle, Austin, Taker could possibly round it out. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

CM Punk
Chris Jericho
Dolph Ziggler
Edge
HBK
Christian
Undertaker
Cody Rhodes
Brock Lesnar

9 of my favorites.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

The discrepancy between Bryan's mic work and Punk's mic work is the same as Bryan's ring work and Punk's ring work. Everyone raved about how Punk had this amazing 2013 with great matches against Cena, Taker and Brock but most of everything else he did that year was sub-par. With only three PPVs into 2014 Bryan's had four match of the year candidates with his match against Bray Wyatt, the Elimination Chamber, his match against HHH, and the world title match against Orton and Batista. I don't see him letting up anytime soon especially if he's holding the strap for an extended period of time. 

Also, on the topic of Brock/Taker and HHH/Brock, I prefer HHH/Brock but not by much. The match was actually laid out pretty damn well, I really enjoyed a lot of the spots. I just think the guys were a little too big which led to a very slow, plodding match. If you look at HHH's conditioning last year compared to his match against Bryan this year it's night and day. He looked like 2000 HHH last sunday. I am in the minority that liked Taker/Brock for the story that I assumed they were trying to tell but I just thought the build lacked so much that it was hard for me to get invested in any of the near falls.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

All time favorites? Gosh.

Trips
Austin
Punk
Jim Ross (legit srs)
Foley
Taker
Flair
Brock
Eddie

There are a bunch of others that I really like a ton but feel like I haven't seen enough of their stuff to put them on a list. Like Rude and Steamboat for instance - obviously regarded as great workers/talents/what have you, and I've seen matches that I really loved, but just havent' seen enough stuff.

Explanation for JR (like it really needs one, but I'll do it anyways): The guy has such an uncanny ability to tell a story and draw you in, and his commentary has legit made matches/programs for me, and he is just as important as any of the greatest superstars of all time. The guy could even make not so great things sound good/epic/whatever. For instance, he made parts of Trips/Taker at 27 enjoyable for me. Cole would have just screamed "Oh man!" and moved on.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

1. Taker
2. CM Punk
3. Shawn Michaels
4. The Rock (dude who got me into wrestling)
5. Eddie
6. Mick Foley
7. Paul Heyman (he counts)
8. Chris Jericho
9. Daniel Bryan
10. JBL


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hunter
Scott Hall
Austin
HBK
Flair

Would probably be mine, with Lesnar, Foley and Bryan close behind.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

#Mark said:


> The discrepancy between Bryan's mic work and Punk's mic work is the same as Bryan's ring work and Punk's ring work. Everyone raved about how Punk had this amazing 2013 with great matches against Cena, Taker and Brock but most of everything else he did that year was sub-par. With only three PPVs into 2014 Bryan's had four match of the year candidates with his match against Bray Wyatt, the Elimination Chamber, his match against HHH, and the world title match against Orton and Batista. I don't see him letting up anytime soon especially if he's holding the strap for an extended period of time.


I do think the difference between the two, in overall, isn't significant, or that it's easy to tell which of the two is better, but I disagree. Punk has a catalog of fantastic matches he's had throughout his career, similar to Bryan, and has shined in terms of his in ring work, in both ROH and WWE. Be it Punk/Joe in ROH, Punk/Cena, Punk/Rey, Punk/Lesnar, Taker, Rey, or whomever, Punk has shown himself to be superb with regards to in ring psychology. That's not to say that Bryan has, as well, both in ROH, and WWE. Punk has had two or three five star matches, in his career, IMO, whereas, wit Bryan, I could only think of one, probably. Though the star ratings are strictly my opinion. All in all though, I don't see how the two differ in the ring as much as they do on the mic.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

MEGA-BABYFACE DANIEL BRYAN VS MEGA-HEEL CM PUNK WM 31 MAIN EVENT WWE TITLE PLZ


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

A little late here, but my thoughts on WM:

*Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H* ****1/4

*The Shield vs. Kane & The New Age Outlaws*- **

*Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal* - ***1/2

*John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt* - ***3/4

*The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar* **1/2

*Divas Invitational Battle Royal* **3/4

*Randy Orton vs. Batista vs. Daniel Bryan* - ****


-Hogan, Austin, & Rock in the ring at the same time. They could be standing there in silence and it still would have been an amazing moment, and what a spectacular way to start the show.


-Bryan/HHH is the best WM opener ever. Such a huge match with an amazing buildup, and the quality to match. Great match to start the show.

-Shield/Authority is short and sweet. Nonstop action, entertaining, but obviously no real substance here.

-The Battle Royal was surprisingly awesome. As the ring cleared, there was more and more room, and to see how much guys were fighting to win, it really made the trophy seem important. The exchange between Cesaro and Big Show was great, and the finish was jaw-dropping.

-Cena/Wyatt was damn good. Not the classic that Wyatt/Bryan was, but still really good. Cena in the upper mid-card gives it credibility and makes the entire roster seems deeper. Cena jumping at Bray's spider stance was awesome, as was Bray screaming at Cena to hit him with the chair. I loved the counter to finish, too.

-There's no rationalizing it. UT/Lesnar is just not a good match. The buildup was weak, the go-home was weak, the match was weak. I was against this match from the very beginning because Lesnar is a 36-year old part-timer who abandoned the company a decade ago and wasn't worthy of ending the streak....but that's the point. No one saw it coming. No one thought he had a chance. Everyone just assumed that the match would have some nearfalls, but that would be it. So we were wrong. I always believed that they would get us when we least suspected it, and so they have. It's an amazing heat builder for Lesnar, who always gives his all in the ring, and makes Lesnar/DB officially the new dream match.

At the end of the day, this match should have had a better build, where you were simply uncertain of the winner, the quality should have been, and it sure as hell should have gone on last. I'm not as mad as I would think, simply because it was shocking an unforgettable moment.

-The Divas title match was pretty good, nothing more.

-The triple-threat was the best WM main event since XXIV; this had everything - a great buildup, great action, it was unpredictable (it really could have gone any way to me, but after UT lost, I had a feeling WWE would even it out with a feel good moment), new blood, nearfalls, you name it.

Simply put, this was a great show, a very special show, and one of the best PPVS ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All of these lists lack Bobby Eaton & Bob Backlund. Just saying. :homer2


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

NO THEY DONT


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

YES THEY DO. :berried


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

THOSE GUYS ARE JOBBERS


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> All-time favorites would have to be Benoit, Orton, Austin, Rock, Undertaker in the top 5. Then there's Brock, Cena (Thuganomics era) and Eddie that are others I'd call favorites. Jericho, Michaels, Angle, Rey and Flair are ones who have a lot of stuff I enjoy but I don't necessarily mark for on that level. If we add members of the current roster, there's Bryan, *Cesaro* and Sheamus.


:mark: We finally did it. What took you to like him enough to put him on that list? And what will it take for you to add Roman Reigns to that shortlist?

Punk has had quite a lot of matches with "lesser" talent that were good. The Ryback TLC match was just about ALL Punk, as was their first HIAC match which honestly wasn't that bad. He's always given Kane some great matches, with the highlight being their Smackdown WWE title match that was wrestled entirely in the form of a "CM Punk" type match. Gave Mark Henry the two best matches of his career. Roman Reigns match was good and built on Punk's terrific selling of the ribs. Chuck Palumbo match in 2008 was another CM Punk match with Chuck Palumbo filling in (who is a very underrated worker himself might I add). Fun match with R-Truth in 2011. Fandango match before Summerslam. Edge match in April 2008 and 2010. Batista matches in 2008 and 2009. JBL matches in 2008. Del Rio and Miz at TLC, but the other two did well too. Chavo Guerrero in early 2008. The list goes on. Not as good as Bryan's list, but very impressive nonetheless.

Interesting to note that during the Punk/Hardy feud, Punk would always think of many of the match and story ideas and pitch them to Jeff, and Jeff's response was always "sure, why not". I'll try to find the video of Punk talking about this. I believe Cena also let Punk call all of the Money in the Bank match as well since Cena wanted Punk to lead him on "his night". I honestly only recall one match where Punk was clearly the "lesser" guy that needed guidance was the Rollins match last year, and Punk called a lot of that match as well. Dude was one of the most gifted ring generals that we had, and now he's busy going to Blackhawk games and Xsport gyms.

With that said, Bryan is just that much better of a ring general and overall wrestler than Punk. Like I said before, I truly believe that when his career is over, the plurality opinion will be that Bryan is the best wrestler we've ever seen. He still has quite a few other guys to climb over, but there's only one guy in the history of wrestling that has had just as good of a resume as Bryan at the age of 32, and that man had the privilege of wrestling with Misawa and Kobashi everyday.

Personal Top Ten:

1. CM Punk
2. Bret Hart
3. Chris Jericho
4. Daniel Bryan
5. Undertaker
6. Chris Benoit
7. Shawn Michaels
8. Jushin Liger
9. Eddie Guerrero
10. Mark Henry


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hey, I'm not talking about Triple H & Shawn Michaels here.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:|


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Almost everyone knows who I mark for, dont hide it abit

Michaels
Flair
Ziggler
Punk
Mr.Perfect (Curt Henning)

Nash
Savage
Austin
Orton
Cena
A Anderson


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

RFWHC said:


> I do think the difference between the two, in overall, isn't significant, or that it's easy to tell which of the two is better, but I disagree. Punk has a catalog of fantastic matches he's had throughout his career, similar to Bryan, and has shined in terms of his in ring work, in both ROH and WWE. Be it Punk/Joe in ROH, Punk/Cena, Punk/Rey, Punk/Lesnar, Taker, Rey, or whomever, Punk has shown himself to be superb with regards to in ring psychology. That's not to say that Bryan has, as well, both in ROH, and WWE. Punk has had two or three five star matches, in his career, IMO, whereas, wit Bryan, I could only think of one, probably. Though the star ratings are strictly my opinion. All in all though, I don't see how the two differ in the ring as much as they do on the mic.


I think the catalog of great Bryan matches is a lot more extensive than the catalog of great Punk matches. If you just compare their WWE careers you can see the discrepancy. Did Punk pre his ME run in 2009 put on a better match than Bryan/Ziggler in 2010? That was a legitimate MOTYC and Bryan had little to no credibility then. Bryan carried guys like Miz and Dibiase jr. to great matches, I honestly don't think Punk has ever had a carry-job as good as Bryan in the WWE. If you compare Punk's WWE peak in 2011-2012 to Bryan's rise in 2013-2014 you'd also see the difference in match quality. Punk had excellent matches with Cena, Rey, and Henry but that's where the buck stopped. Did Punk have any other great matches in 2011 besides his matches with Cena and Rey? Or 2012 besides his match with Henry? I guess you can consider his matches with Y2J good but I honestly found them decent. I don't think Bryan has ever had a bad match except for his match against Sheamus at WM 28.

As for ROH work, there's a reason why Bryan is a 9 time observer technical wrestler of the year. I'm not going to act super knowledgable about Punk's time in ROH but he hasn't gained the recognition that Bryan has and there's a reason for that. IMO, Bryan's matches with Mcguinness, Morishma, Low-Ki, Joe, Aries, Generico, and KENTA are modern classics. I know Punk had classic matches with Hero and Joe but 
I'm not sure he's had anything else as quality as Bryan's ROH matches.

Also, if you just compare their styles I find Bryan's a lot more easy to watch. Punk's knee-based offense and his lifting finisher is just too clunky and hard to believe. Bryan's offense is based on fast strikes, explosiveness, and submissions. I can find Bryan beating a behemoth more believable than Punk because of their styles.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> I'm not being a dick, but are there any really great Punk matches where he's not facing a gifted worker? His best matches are vs. Cena/Taker/Jericho/Bryan/Henry/etc. Has he ever really carried the load?


he's carried the load, but not to what I'd say is that great of a match. Like, Punk/Orton Mania 27 was probably 100% Punk but the match was just ''pretty good''.



HayleySabin said:


> Orton @ WM 27. It's not a great match, but it's really good and all thanks to Punker.


I swear I posted the above before reading this. 



SMITTY said:


> Just watched the big three matches on wrestlewar 92
> 
> Pillman/Z-man: ****1/2
> 
> ...


Daaaaang you liked Pillman/Zenk a lot. Have you seen Pillman/Raven (what was his fucking name at that show? Wasn't Johnny Polo, I'm pretty sure) from Beach Blast? Quite a bit better, IMO. Pillman/Zenk is super, though. Pillman was probably the US' best wrestler in 1991, but had an even better 1992.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Out of your list of guys Cena/Taker/Jericho/Henry, how often have they "carried a match"? I took Bryan out because he obviously has done this a fair amount. Takers done it a bunch I reckon, but Cena and Henry and Jericho? As the saying goes, in wrestling, it takes two to tango. I never like saying one guy carried another because I'm obviously not a wrestler and wasn't in the match. I have no clue what really went down. *You could have a match where you think one guy is carrying another and in reality the other guy is calling the entire match to the one you think is carrying it, essentially telling him everything to do that you think looks so great.*


IDK if ''carried the load'' is right for Cena, but there are several, several matches that wouldn't have been as good without him in there. I loved the Batista LMS and thought Batista had by far his career showing in it, but he couldn't have had that match with anybody other than John Cena. Cena/Michaels hour match on Raw in 07 is excellent and like 90% Cena. 

I thought Henry was definitely better than his opponent in like every awesome match he had in 2011.

bolded - I see where you're coming from, but carries to me would mainly be about execution and/or personality and stuff. I'm sure Kevin Nash can whisper ''smile like a dick'' to Eddie Guerrero, but it's up to Eddie to make it look good. Maybe a shitty example but you get the idea probs~ 

Honestly I don't give a shit who laid out what match. Anybody can bring up how this and that happened backstage but whatever, it doesn't mean they were better in the match at all. Pat Patterson probably laid out Michaels v. Diesel but that doesn't make him a better wrestler than Michaels. Execution is a lot more important than the idea or the planning. 



The Lady Killer said:


> I shouldn't have said anything


:lmao 

fuck it I'm not erasing this post. 



HayleySabin said:


> Here's a spoiler though, Undertaker & *El Generico/Sami Zayn top the list*. Bet nobody saw that coming.


I actually didn't see that coming. 

I made a top...13 some time back and I think I'd stick to it even now. I've never liked wrestlers in a specific order as long as I have at this point.


EDIT - If I were ranking wrestlers, Danielson and Punk would probably be 150 spaces apart. Punk can be awesome but he isn't Bryan Danielson.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk had A LOT more than just Cena and Rey in 2011 and A LOT more than just Henry in 2012. I'm actually shocked that someone asked that.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

What was the best Austin/Taker match? Judgement Day 2001?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> What was the best Austin/Taker match? Judgement Day 2001?


Probably, but their first blood match in Fully Loaded 1999 is great. Summerslam 1998 is honestly not THAT bad. Actually I think I like their Cold Day in Hell match the most. They had a great one in 2001 on Smackdown too.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

A Cold Day In Hell (***1/2)
Summerslam 1998 (***)
Over The Edge (*1/2)
Buried Alive (**)
Fully Loaded (****)
Judgement Day 2001 (****)
Backlash 2002 (***)

My ratings.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :mark: We finally did it. What took you to like him enough to put him on that list? And what will it take for you to add Roman Reigns to that shortlist?


He's been working his way up for quite a while now. He just doesn't cease to impress in the ring. I have been on the border for a while, now after WM and that epic body slam on Big Show which was a mark out moment, I've officially crossed it to jump on the bandwagon. (you can connect an obvious pun there if you wanna) Looking forward to see if Zayn can enter the list too once he makes it to the main roster and works with the main talent beyond Real Americans.

As for Reigns, I like him and The Shield on a whole as well as individually but he has to prove himself as a singles competitor beyond the awesome spear and roar before I am officially a fan. I've talked bad about the roster quite a few times in the past but when I look at it now, there are so many impressive guys on the roster. After WM30, I have a highly optimistic outlook on the future of the company and the fact that I don't dislike anybody they're pushing probably helps that.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

#Mark said:


> I think the catalog of great Bryan matches is a lot more extensive than the catalog of great Punk matches. If you just compare their WWE careers you can see the discrepancy. Did Punk pre his ME run in 2009 put on a better match than Bryan/Ziggler in 2010? That was a legitimate MOTYC and Bryan had little to no credibility then. Bryan carried guys like Miz and Dibiase jr. to great matches, I honestly don't think Punk has ever had a carry-job as good as Bryan in the WWE. If you compare Punk's WWE peak in 2011-2012 to Bryan's rise in 2013-2014 you'd also see the difference in match quality. Punk had excellent matches with Cena, Rey, and Henry but that's where the buck stopped. Did Punk have any other great matches in 2011 besides his matches with Cena and Rey? Or 2012 besides his match with Henry? I guess you can consider his matches with Y2J good but I honestly found them decent. I don't think Bryan has ever had a bad match except for his match against Sheamus at WM 28.
> 
> As for ROH work, there's a reason why Bryan is a 9 time observer technical wrestler of the year. I'm not going to act super knowledgable about Punk's time in ROH but he hasn't gained the recognition that Bryan has and there's a reason for that. IMO, Bryan's matches with Mcguinness, Morishma, Low-Ki, Joe, Aries, Generico, and KENTA are modern classics. I know Punk had classic matches with Hero and Joe but
> I'm not sure he's had anything else as quality as Bryan's ROH matches.
> ...


There's no doubt that Bryan has an impressive catalog of matches. My point is that Punk does, as well. Ziggler, Cena, Rey, Henry, Hardy, Taker, Orton, Sheamus, Jericho, Del Rio, Ryback, Sheamus, and Umaga are all guys I would say he has had at least one match I could claim would be decent to good or better. But throughout his career, Punk has shown himself to be fantastic in the ring in terms of his feel of what to do when, etc. His feeling and ability for doing the right thing at the right time, for doing things that make sense in a match, etc, and to produce a memorable match, are key. Regardless of Bryan's expertise in the ring, I wouldn't put Punk far below him in that regard, b/c he's shown to be a supreme worker, in my opinion, definitely on Bryan's level, when at his best. 

Also wanted to remark that the Bryan video promo in your sig is great. One of my favorite video promos in the past few years.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bryan's a much better worker than Punk for me but that's not a criticism of Punk. Bryan's a much better worker than almost everybody and Punk is definitely good.

Going back to the Bryan/Lesnar talk, I'm cool with it happening at SummerSlam or WM31 or both. I agree SummerSlam might be a bit early. It would be a lose-lose situation for either guy to take a big loss this summer after what went down at Mania but I'm not totally against it. I think Brock would have to go over. I mean shit he just ended the streak. Brock can win at SummerSlam and Bryan can get his win back at 31. Usually I'd be against them using up two of Lesnar's PPV dates on one guy but if Bryan's that guy I don't mind at all. 

It's far too early to start predicting stuff for next year but I feel like it would be a good time for Cena to really put over one of the younger guys. Reigns would be the prime candidate. Either him or Cesaro but Cena/Reigns sounds bigger than Cena/Cesaro. Of course that could all change in a year's time. Maybe Orton could do the same for Rollins. As for Batista, fuck. I can't think of any matches involving him that I want to see other than Evolution/Shield or Evolution/Wyatts. Triple H, well I'd be down for HHH/Punk if Punk comes back. Or he could put over Reigns or Cesaro instead of Cena but for that to happen I think he needs a win or two leading up to it. Won't have the same affect as HHH/Bryan if Hunter's coming off a year with no wins.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Austin is DEF their best match together. Holy sweet lady gaga it's tremendous.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I take back what I said about Evolution/Shield and Evolution/Wyatts (which I doubt will happen) being the only Batista matches I want to see. Evolution triple threat is another. That could be a sweet co-main for SummerSlam. Not saying it would be a great match, I actually wouldn't go in expecting a whole lot in terms of quality, but it's a match that's never happened before and 2014 is the perfect year for it on the back of the Authority/Bryan and Authority/Shield programs.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Which one? @Hayley


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Terrible botch on my part. Awful.

*Judgment Day 2001.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Not as terrible of a botch as this Konnan/Juventud match I just watched. Shit, Juvi even botched his entrance :lmao. And Konnan should have been thrown in prison for the shit he tried to do to Juventud. We are also in agreement that The Great Khali is a better wrestler than Konnan, right?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

About to watch Wyatts/Shield III


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Going back to the Bryan/Lesnar talk, I'm cool with it happening at SummerSlam or WM31 or both. I agree SummerSlam might be a bit early. It would be a lose-lose situation for either guy to take a big loss this summer after what went down at Mania but I'm not totally against it. I think Brock would have to go over. I mean shit he just ended the streak.


That would be kind of the reason to put Bryan over. He would be the monster and he would be the full timer that so many fuckers around here complain about that got the big win.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Dean Ambrose is giving possibly his best performance in a WWE ring in this match. Beautiful FIP work.



bigbuxxx said:


> That would be kind of the reason to put Bryan over. He would be the monster and he would be the full timer that so many fuckers around here complain about that got the big win.


Yeah I guess, I'm just not totally in favor of the guy who ended the streak losing so soon after doing it. Doesn't help that Lesnar's part-time. If he stuck around for a while and had a run of dominant wins leading up to SummerSlam I could live with that but at most I see him having one match between now SummerSlam, if any at all. That said I'm obviously not going to hate it if they fully legitimize Bryan as the company's top star with a win over Brock.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Not as terrible of a botch as this Konnan/Juventud match I just watched. Shit, Juvi even botched his entrance :lmao. And Konnan should have been thrown in prison for the shit he tried to do to Juventud. We are also in agreement that The Great Khali is a better wrestler than Konnan, right?


Khali demolishes that chump.



Saint Dick said:


> About to watch Wyatts/Shield III


:hb


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I'm pretty much thinking Brock vs. Bryan happens at SummerSlam.

Watched some matches on the Network, going through streak matches. RIP Streak 

*Wrestlemania 29* - The Undertaker vs. CM Punk - *****3/4*
*Wrestlemania 28* - The Undertaker vs. Triple H - *****1/4*

Watched Punk vs. Rey from Over the Limit 2010 too...

*Over the Limit* - CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio - ****1/2*

I would have rated the Punk-Rey match at **** if it didn't have that damn stoppage in the early of it. I'm glad Punk pretty much picked it up right away, but kinda shitty. Took away 2-3 minutes there.

Punk-Taker was better than I remember and made me miss Punk even more. That match was just flat out tremendous. Taker-HHH fell after the last time I watched it. Still great, the psychology is top notch, but the match isn't as good as I remember. Gonna watch more Streak matches over the next few days.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Stoppage was something I don't even mind. That match is fabulous. Best of the PPV series in 2010.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I thought the stop honestly added to the match.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Probably the only one who thought Jericho/Rock RR was better than their NM match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Probably the only one who thought Jericho/Rock RR was better than their NM match.


I did think that is what everyone thought lol. 

Certainly i think so, i love the RR match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

As far as I'm concerned, you are alone indeed. Rock never had a better singles match than Jericho NM (unless his opponent was named Steve Austin, that is, and even then, it's his overall second best, just behind Rock/Austin 17 imo).

Glad Punk/Rey OTL is getting some love here, but if we're going to talk about 2010 PPV stuff, Bryan/Ziggler BR is kinda Godly.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well shocks, ill have to go back and watch their NM match it seems. 

Anyone know the date of this plz:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ATF said:


> Glad Punk/Rey OTL is getting some love here, but if we're going to talk about 2010 PPV stuff, Bryan/Ziggler BR is kinda Godly.


Second half of 2010 was all about Daniel Bryan. Nexus tag, Miz, Ziggler, DiBiase. Going back to the Bryan-Punk WWE argument, it took Punk a while to really get going in the 'E. Bryan hit the ground running. 

Can't bring up 2010 PPV matches without mentioning Sheamus/Morrison ladder.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I thought the stop honestly added to the match.


b/c Punker got all pissed and it ruled. Faces he made = smiley of pleasure.



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Probably the only one who thought Jericho/Rock RR was better than their NM match.


They're both close for me. Love em a ton.



Saint Dick said:


> Can't bring up 2010 PPV matches without mentioning Sheamus/Morrison ladder.


100% this


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I've been playing around with some WM-related Top 5 lists, and I'm kinda in doubt that in the "Top 5 WWE Title Matches" part should I have Cena/HBK or Orton/Bryan/Batista at #5. I think I'm going with the latter since it's positively shorter, it has bigger drama and is much better booked, even if the former was still kick-ass (though overshadowed badly by Batista/Taker).


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I think I'd go for Cena/Michaels but I won't argue against this year's triple threat.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Orton/Batista/Bryan smokes Cena/Michaels.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Dean Ambrose's post match promo after Shield/Wyatts III was so GOAT. Best FIP display of the year and Dean's career performance to this point imo. Great match.

1. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Elimination Chamber (2/23/14)
2. Cesaro v Sami Zayn - NXT ArRIVAL (2/27/14)
3. Daniel Bryan v Triple H - WrestleMania XXX (4/6/14)
4. Bray Wyatt v Daniel Bryan - Royal Rumble (1/26/14)
5. Randy Orton v Batista v Daniel Bryan - WrestleMania XXX (4/6/14)
6. Cesaro v John Cena - Raw (2/17/14)
7. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Main Event (4/8/14)
8. Bray Wyatt v John Cena - WrestleMania XXX (4/6/14)
9. Randy Orton v Cesaro v Christian v Daniel Bryan v John Cena v Sheamus - Elimination Chamber (2/23/14)
10. Daniel Bryan v Randy Orton - Raw (2/3/14)
11. Corey Graves v Sami Zayn - NXT (4/3/14)
12. Christian & Sheamus v The Real Americans - Raw (2/10/14)
13. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Raw (3/3/14)
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

I'm gonna need more than 20 spots.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Saint Dick said:


> Dean Ambrose's post match promo after Shield/Wyatts III was so GOAT. Best FIP display of the year and Dean's career performance to this point imo. Great match.


Dammit I keep forgetting Main Event is on the Network every week now. I'll check it out now.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> As far as I'm concerned, you are alone indeed. Rock never had a better singles match than Jericho NM (unless his opponent was named Steve Austin, that is, and even then, it's his overall second best, just behind Rock/Austin 17 imo).
> 
> Glad Punk/Rey OTL is getting some love here, but if we're going to talk about 2010 PPV stuff, Bryan/Ziggler BR is kinda Godly.



Nah, Benoit/Rocky Fully Loaded 2000 is my pick for the best Non-Austin Rocky singles match. Match is STELLAR. Behind the Trips/Foley matches, it's my pick for 2000 match of the year, even better than Backlash and Judgement Day with Hunter. That Fully Loaded match kicks an insane amount of ass.

Favorite Rocky Singles Bouts:

1. Vs Steve Austin WM 17
2. Vs Benoit Fully Loaded 2000
3. Vs Jericho NM 2001
4. Vs Foley I Quit RR 1999
5. Vs Austin WM 19
6. Vs Jericho RR 2002
7. Vs Brock Summerslam 2002
8. Vs Trips Backlash 2000
9. Vs Trips Judgement Day 2000
10. Vs Hogan WM 18

I don't get how Cal and others say Rocky "sucks" as a wrestler. He's not one of my favorites or anything, but the dude could be DAMN good.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Shield/Wyatts III was amazing, especially the last 4-5 minutes. **** from me, nearly as good as the EC bout


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rock/Benoit is stellar, without question, but I feel that seeing Jericho win the "big one" as they called it was a better moment for me and the dealbreaker between the two for sure, even if the ending itself was kinda really cheap.

Rock definitely had his moments of being damn good inside the ring, and I think it's unfair to simply say he sucks or something like that. Yeah his Sharpshooter makes Cena's STF look like the Crippler Crossface or the Yes Lock, and yeah he doesn't pack the best punches or anything, but in terms of character work and being able to tell a compelling story, Dwayne sure got the job right more often than not.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'll probably watch MITB 2010 starting tomorrow. I'm only positive of two of the matches on the card (MITB, obviously) and don't know all of the guys in them. I want to say I know what the World Title match is and if I'm right I am really looking forward to it. Half of the fun of this stupid WWE 2010 thing is that I have no memroy of the PPVs so I put the show on and don't even know who's coming on my screen. Sometimes it gives me a bad lengthy Miz match or the Cryme Tyme pay-off strap match (still not entirely convinced that even existed), but the initial wonder of what's coming next is always awesome and something I've kinda missed while watching specific matches on youtube. I should watch more full shows. Looking at you KOTR 95.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Rock getting some love in this thread? Never thought I would see the day  

But yeah, he definitely had great/good matches in his WWF/E career. I understand the criticism in regards to his punches but there were times he executed them well. I remember there was a nice punch combo in the WM 19 match with Austin. Even in his EC title match vs CM Punk, there were some nice executed punches (around minute 17:38). Although credit to CM Punk for selling those punches.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tbh credit to CM Punk for basically everything of good about that rematch, especially after the disaster that was their first match at the Rumble 

With that said, I agree with the statement that Dean Ambrose's performance on Shield/Wyatts III was his best on the main roster so far (possibly in his WWE career, can't say all of it since I never saw much if any of his work as Jon Moxley bar the promos), by far the MVP of the match and definitely FIP performance of the year. Or maybe not, if Bryan's performance vs. HHH counts as FIP


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Tbh credit to CM Punk for basically everything of good about that rematch, especially after the disaster that was their first match at the Rumble
> 
> With that said, I agree with the statement that Dean Ambrose's performance on Shield/Wyatts III was his best on the main roster so far (possibly in his WWE career, can't say all of it since I never saw much if any of his work as Jon Moxley bar the promos), by far the MVP of the match and definitely FIP performance of the year. Or maybe not, if Bryan's performance vs. HHH counts as FIP



Nah, his matches with Regal>>>>anything he's done with the Shield. Those Regal 2 matches are the best thing I've seen from Ambrose personally. There are some Shield matches I enjoy more (TLC, EC, etc) but for just Ambrose performance, he has never been as good as he was with Regal. Although I've heard GREAT things about a match or matches he had with Rollins down in FCW, I've just never seen them so I can't speak to them. As far as Ambrose with The Shield, I'd say yea that 3rd match with the Wyatt's would he his best individual performance.

But yea, I highly reccomend the two Ambrose/Regal matches. Regal was as good as ever, definitely the stand out performer, but Ambrose chipped in as well and it made for two EXCELLENT bouts.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, I just watched that Bryan WM documentary, and can I just say it may just rival Punk's? Because it kinda does. Now have a good selection of matches (for e.g. his debut, two Morishima matches especially Manhattan Mayhem, McGuinness, Jericho NXT, etc. all the way to both WM XXX matches), and you've got a killer DVD right there.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Punk/Jericho WM28 or Cena/Michaels WM23?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Punk/Jericho WM28 or Cena/Michaels WM23?


Punk/Jericho by 3/4* . Best WWE title match in WM history for me, just edging out Rock/Austin.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Punk/Jericho WM28 or Cena/Michaels WM23?


I liked Punk/Jericho a little bit more, but only a little. Both matches are up there with the best WWE Title Matches in WM history, alongside Austin/Rock from WM X-Seven


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Punk/Jericho rather easily. I still thought Cena/HBK was great, though. Like I mentioned I did quite a lot of WM Top 5's since the airing of 30, and this is how the WWE Title match ones ended up:

TOP 5 WWE CHAMPIONSHIP MATCHES
5 - Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Batista, WM 30 (****) 
4 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WM 6 (****)
3 - Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage, WM 8 (****1/4)
2 - CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho, WM 28 (****1/2)
1 - The Rock vs. Steve Austin, WM 17 (*****)

Maybe later today I'll post all of those lists (including some Top 10's for the most important lists).


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Thinking about it, Ambrose has actually had a fantastic start to his WWE career if you include FCW stuff, which we totally should. Five matches with Rollins, the worst of which still being real good, two MOTYCs with Regal, giving Sandow the best match of his career by far in an overlooked GEM, a good match with Punk and all of The Shield goodies. Doesn't get enough credit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton/Bryan/Batista > Punk/Jericho > Cena/HBK

Gotta check out Wyatts vs Shield part 3.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Currently re-watching WM XXX for a review. Looking forward to seeing the main event in full this time around. Show so far has held up just as well as on first watch. Cena/Bray time :mark:.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Remember when you doubters here thought Dean Ambrose wasn't that good? :lol Speak up, SKINS!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Orton/Bryan/Batista > Punk/Jericho > Cena/HBK
> 
> Gotta check out Wyatts vs Shield part 3.



Best WWE title matches in WM history:

1. Rock vs Austin WM 17 ****3/4
2. Savage vs Flair WM 8 ****1/2
3. Punk vs Jericho WM 28 ****1/2
4. Bryan vs Batista vs Orton WM 30 ****
5. Cena vs HBK WM 23 **** (could have been SO much better if Cena remembered about a little thing called SELLING)

Top 3 WHC matches:

1. Benoit vs HBK vs HHH WM 20 *****
2. Batista vs Taker WM 23 ****1/2
3. Taker vs Edge WM 24 ****1/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Remember when you doubters here thought Dean Ambrose wasn't that good? :lol Speak up, SKINS!


:lol touche, although this was coming from a guy who only saw his matches w/ Kofi and Kane and NONE Of his FCW stuff mark. Yea Ive taken a really liking to Ambrose over the last few months. I would still go :

Rollins >>>>>>> Ambrose >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reigns in my likeness but all good nonetheless

Since we are talking about the Sheild, Rosenberg, a host on a hip hop station around me who also handles very very good interviews just put these up :





 :mark: SETH DA GAWD

there is also a KING OF SWING, nattie,reigns,big e and heyman one lmao so funny) as well


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena vs HBK could have been so much better if it wasn't a fucking squash. I don't mind Cena's "no selling" as I don't even notice it when watching. The thing frustrating me is that it goes on for so fucking long (30 minutes) and about 25 minutes is all Shawn on the offense. That's why I've never liked the match as much as others.

Rock/Austin II is the greatest WM match for the WWE Title (2nd overall after WM XX three way). I have yet to see Savage/Flair but from those I've seen, I'd rank this week's triple threat second.

Speaking of one-sided Mania matches, I finished rewatching Orton/Punk last night and I don't understand the "Punk carried this entirely" comments. Sure, he did more since he had 85% of the offense throughout and did some good heel work with his taunting and douchey facial expressions but Orton's selling of the leg was amazing. Specially when it gave out as he went for the punt. Solid match and the best one these two had together. Surprised they have only had one or two more "proper" matches outside of the three that was for this feud when you consider how damn near everyone in the roster have faced each other a hundred times.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I really like Cena/HBK from what I can recall.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Orton/Punk
Wrestlemania 27: ***1/2
Extreme Rules '11 Last Man Standing: ***3/4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Cena vs HBK could have been so much better if it wasn't a fucking squash. I don't mind Cena's "no selling" as I don't even notice it when watching. The thing frustrating me is that it goes on for so fucking long (30 minutes) and about 25 minutes is all Shawn on the offense. That's why I've never liked the match as much as others.
> 
> Rock/Austin II is the greatest WM match for the WWE Title (2nd overall after WM XX three way). I have yet to see Savage/Flair but from those I've seen, I'd rank this week's triple threat second.
> 
> Speaking of one-sided Mania matches, I finished rewatching Orton/Punk last night and I don't understand the "Punk carried this entirely" comments. Sure, he did more since he had 85% of the offense throughout and did some good heel work with his taunting and douchey facial expressions but Orton's selling of the leg was amazing. Specially when it gave out as he went for the punt. Solid match and the best one these two had together. Surprised they have only had one or two more "proper" matches outside of the three that was for this feud when you consider how damn near everyone in the roster have faced each other a hundred times.



"Second overall after WM XX three way", do you mean to say you think Austin/Rock WM 17 and Benoit/Trips/HBK are better than Austin/Bret WM 13?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> "Second overall after WM XX three way", do you mean to say you think Austin/Rock WM 17 and Benoit/Trips/HBK are better than Austin/Bret WM 13?


Austin/Bret was not a title match, which is what I was talking about (overall meaning World Title matches of any kind). Other than that, I have them and Taker/HBK from WM25 on around the same level. All five star matches. Hard to pick a favorite out of the bunch because they're all so good but I think Austin/Rock would be #4. It's a coin toss with the other three.

Now I'ma watch this Bryan documentary they put up on the Network.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Well that wasn't for the title. 

I need to watch the Triple Threat from Mania again because I only remember it as the greatest thing ever from my seat in the crowd. My heart stopped twice during the match and I don't think I've ever been happier at the outcome of a match then when Bryan. Also I realized at one point that if Orton had not kicked out of the running knee that I would have wanted to launch myself off the balcony so that has to count for something positive. 

Wrestlemania was such a roller coaster and there were 2 moments that I saw that I will never forget. I've never seen anything like the end of the streak before. I've never seen a crowd react that way before either. There's no way I'm ever going to forget it. And Bryan's win was amazing for all the right reasons. Seeing someone you once watched wrestling in front of 200 people win the main event of Wrestlemania was a really cool moment.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

If CM Punk carried anything during the Orton feud, it was the build up. Punk did all the talking and laid out the entire story. All Orton did was RKO Nexus members. The matches themselves were not carry jobs. Their RAW 2011 match might be my favorite.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The best thing Orton ever did was punt Husky Harris, otherwise we wouldn't have got :wyatt


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Austin/Bret was not a title match, which is what I was talking about (overall meaning World Title matches of any kind). Other than that, I have them and Taker/HBK from WM25 on around the same level. All five star matches. Hard to pick a favorite out of the bunch because they're all so good but I think Austin/Rock would be #4. It's a coin toss with the other three.
> 
> Now I'ma watch this Bryan documentary they put up on the Network.





Oh, gotcha. Yea for best WrestleMania world title matches I have Benoit/Trips/HBK as my #1 and Rock/Austin at #2, but I love them both a whole hell of a lot. My favorite title match period, WrestleMania or not, WWE or not, is Angle/Austin Summerslam. Behind only Austin/Bret WM 13 and the original Cell match as the greatest match to ever happen in North America.

That would be a fun project/list to make, top 50-100 World Title matches in WWE/WCW history.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Robbie said:


> The best thing Orton ever did was punt Husky Harris, otherwise we wouldn't have got :wyatt



Thats a great choice, but I'm gonna have to go with THIS as the greatest thing Orton has ever done:






How do you top that? No one can ever doubt that he's fucking tough as nails.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> If CM Punk carried anything during the Orton feud, it was the build up. Punk did all the talking and laid out the entire story. All Orton did was RKO Nexus members. The matches themselves were not carry jobs. Their RAW 2011 match might be my favorite.


Yep, I admit that. Orton just cut one short promo after punting Husky and that was it. He squashed those Nexus jobbers and punted them out of TV but otherwise, all the talking was done by Punk. Orton's promos in 2011 were pretty bad. At least in 2009 when he did the slow talking, it worked for him as the crazy heel but in 2011, it's like he had lost all his charisma and turned into a robot.

Thank god he recovered from that horrendous "gimmick" and has undone all the wrong in the past year, specially after TLC.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Thats a great choice, but I'm gonna have to go with THIS as the greatest thing Orton has ever done:
> 
> How do you top that? No one can ever doubt that he's fucking tough as nails.


I second that. Just an amazing moment and simply legendary. Kinda apt to mention now as in a little over a week, we'll reach the tenth year anniversary of Backlash.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Yep, I admit that. Orton just cut one short promo after punting Husky and that was it. He squashed those Nexus jobbers and punted them out of TV but otherwise, all the talking was done by Punk. Orton's promos in 2011 were pretty bad. At least in 2009 when he did the slow talking, it worked for him as the crazy heel but in 2011, it's like he had lost all his charisma and turned into a robot.
> 
> Thank god he recovered from that horrendous "gimmick" and has undone all the wrong in the past year, specially after TLC.
> 
> ...




That's a moment that could simply never be replicated. Edge tried, and that was a moment too, but it just wasn't anywhere near what it felt like seeing Orton land on those tacks at Backlash. There are a few reasons for that: 1.) we had only ever seen Foley land on the tacks, never his opponent 2.) we had only ever seen Foley, complete with a shirt on, ever land in the tacks. We had never seen them stuck in a guys skin like that 3.) Ortons character heading into that match. He was seen as a "golden boy", somewhat of a wrestling prodigy. Definitely wasn't seen as a tough guy. Seeing a so called "pretty boy" get thrown violently onto thumbtacks, then to see his amazing facial reaction, then to see him sit up like that with all those silver tacks sticking out of his back....that's something that will always stick in my mind. Pretty sure Orton got a standing ovation the night after Backlash, and rightly so,

C2D have you seen that "My Favorite Matches" book WWE released? It has a chapter written by Orton where he talks about the Backlash match with Foley, says it's definitely the best of his career. He even talks about his decision to land on the tacks. He said once he made it up in his mind that he was gonna do it, he took one of the sterilized tacks home just to give him a sample of what it would be like. It was apparently the worst decision he ever made, he set it down on the carpet, then fell backwards onto it and said it was one of the most painful things ever. He wanted to back out but he'd already told Foley and made up his mind he was gonna do it, so he just sucked it up. He also said Flair was behind the curtain when he ran to the back and he quickly pulled the ones out of his hands, which were the ones that apparently hurt the worst.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Gentlemen and ladies, my WM Top 5 Overkill mini-project is coming pack with some write-ups on my general thoughts in each Mania. Just pointing that out. 

EDIT: Actually, let's get dem lists out first:



> A LOOK ON THE 30 YEARS OF WRESTLEMANIA
> 
> PART 1: THE LISTS
> 
> ...


Later, the write-ups on each WM show. Oh, and yeah, I count Orton/Bryan/Batista as both WWE Title and WHC Title.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Just out of sheer curiosity, have we been graced with any star ratings from MELTZER for Mania 30? For the lulz, of course.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Great write-up of that Orton/Foley moment, CactusJack!

And yeah, that Orton rundown of his match with Foley in that book was funny. The whole book is a pretty good read. I'd recommend it.


Just a heads up for those who going to be watching Shield vs. Wyatts on the network...it's the very first match, and it's about three minutes into the program.

Just stating that for those who assume like I did, that it'll be the last match. It's not. Don't want you fast forwarding for nothing.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finished watching the Bryan documentary and it was great. So inspiring. The more I watch these life stories, the more I feel like wrestling is something I wanna try.

Also gotta give Bryan credit on working out to get in good shape. I saw these clips of him in 2010 and he was skinny as fuck. Now he's in great shape and the only downside for him is he's not large enough. Also saw a shot of the WM30 crowd with a sign that said "PURPLE AKI" so I googled it and had a good laugh. :lol



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's a moment that could simply never be replicated. Edge tried, and that was a moment too, but it just wasn't anywhere near what it felt like seeing Orton land on those tacks at Backlash. There are a few reasons for that: 1.) we had only ever seen Foley land on the tacks, never his opponent 2.) we had only ever seen Foley, complete with a shirt on, ever land in the tacks. We had never seen them stuck in a guys skin like that 3.) Ortons character heading into that match. He was seen as a "golden boy", somewhat of a wrestling prodigy. Definitely wasn't seen as a tough guy. Seeing a so called "pretty boy" get thrown violently onto thumbtacks, then to see his amazing facial reaction, then to see him sit up like that with all those silver tacks sticking out of his back....that's something that will always stick in my mind. Pretty sure Orton got a standing ovation the night after Backlash, and rightly so


I actually wanted to know. Was Orton the first guy to land onto thumbtacks in a match against Foley? Without a shirt, no less!

I know that Edge tried to duplicate that at WM22 but even though the match was great, there's a reason why when people think of anyone landing onto thumbtacks other than Foley, it's Orton. Ironic when you think about it since WM is where all the big moments are remembered and those done on lesser PPVs tend to get lost in the mix. Just a legendary moment and I made the jump over the fence to rate that match 5 stars. I've watched it many times and it's still equally amazing every time. It actually gets better with every watch. If I wanna show a wrestling match to a non-fan, that would probably be it along with Foley/Taker from KOTR 98 and the first ever MITB.

The night after, Orton got a pretty good reaction from the crowd and even some "Randy" chants when he cut his promo. Everything you said is absolutely right. He was looked at as this punk, no dues paying kid who got in through connections and didn't have the talent or passion and was just a pretty face. But he proved everyone wrong and continues to do that to this very day.



> C2D have you seen that "My Favorite Matches" book WWE released? It has a chapter written by Orton where he talks about the Backlash match with Foley, says it's definitely the best of his career...


No but I have read Orton's part. I think it was LilOlMe who quoted the entire section and it was a nice read. Orton may have felt terrible about deciding to land onto them but now ten years later, he has nothing to regret considering that's not the type of things he built his legacy on and it put him in the list of immortals of wrestling history. To quote Triple H in the backstage segment after the match "You went from being a Legend Killer to a legend".


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I need to rewatch Bryan vs. Batista vs. Orton. I gave it a ***1/4 rating on Sunday and was still kind of in shock over 'Taker's streak ending that I couldn't get into it until HHH appeared.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm JUST up to that triple threat now on my re-watch . Had to take a break after the STREAK match. For food, of course. No other reason  :side: .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Cena vs HBK could have been so much better if it wasn't a fucking squash. I don't mind Cena's "no selling" as I don't even notice it when watching. The thing frustrating me is that it goes on for so fucking long (30 minutes) and about 25 minutes is all Shawn on the offense. That's why I've never liked the match as much as others.
> 
> Rock/Austin II is the greatest WM match for the WWE Title (2nd overall after WM XX three way). I have yet to see Savage/Flair but from those I've seen, I'd rank this week's triple threat second.
> 
> Speaking of one-sided Mania matches, I finished rewatching Orton/Punk last night and I don't understand the "Punk carried this entirely" comments. Sure, he did more since he had 85% of the offense throughout and did some good heel work with his taunting and douchey facial expressions but Orton's selling of the leg was amazing. Specially when it gave out as he went for the punt. Solid match and the best one these two had together. Surprised they have only had one or two more "proper" matches outside of the three that was for this feud when you consider how damn near everyone in the roster have faced each other a hundred times.


It's really no surprise. Punk doesn't waste time fighting untalented 3rd generation wrestlers more than he has to. unk2


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> It's really no surprise. Punk doesn't waste time fighting untalented 3rd generation wrestlers more than he has to. unk2


You could've done better.

That was pretty random.

How was the Taker/Batista chairs match? I think I've only seen one chairs match in my life.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LilOlMe said:


> How was the Taker/Batista chairs match? I think I've only seen one chairs match in my life.


It's awful. Don't bother watching it. Just remember their awesome 07 series, and 2 good SD matches in 08 .

Only chairs match worth seeing is Show/Sheamus.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Hopefully Barrett is on SmackDown tomorrow :mark:

And is it Monday yet?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> It's awful. Don't bother watching it. Just remember their awesome 07 series, and 2 good SD matches in 08 .
> 
> Only chairs match worth seeing is Show/Sheamus.


Ah, thanks.

What event did that take place on?

Also, would you say Taker/Batista LMS is better than Cyber Sunday, or vice versa?

I LOVED their WM match. Like, it's one of the first things I think of when I think of the Streak.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Spoiler: SD spoilers



Barrett is indeed on SD



Fuck me, this main event has been DULL AS SHIT so far...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LilOlMe said:


> Ah, thanks.
> 
> What event did that take place on?
> 
> ...


TLC 2012. Watch their HIAC and SVS matches first too if you haven't seen them. AWESOME series of matches. Oh, and their Lumberjack Frost match from the Christmas episode of Raw that year.

CS is my fav match from their series, so definintely have it over LMS. WM = CS for me in terms of quality.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

LilOlMe said:


> You could've done better.
> 
> That was pretty random.
> 
> How was the Taker/Batista chairs match? I think I've only seen one chairs match in my life.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I'm JUST up to that triple threat now on my re-watch . Had to take a break after the STREAK match. For food, of course. No other reason  :side: .



I had to sit outside with a cigarette and a cup of coffee just staring at the road in front of my townhouse for about 15 minutes solid. Having to endure the sight of a defeated Deadman making his last walk up the ramp at WrestleMania was something I just was not mentally prepared for. Damn near broke my heart. I think a lot of that was the expression on his face. Now I know that he was just out cold, but at the time he seemed like the most defeated man on the face of the Earth, which just made it hurt even more.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> Ah, thanks.
> 
> What event did that take place on?
> 
> ...


CS is my second favorite after WM. I also love their cage match. Haven't seen their 2008 matches. I would but I can't find them in decent quality and I'm too lazy to go through any 2008 packs.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Having to endure the sight of a defeated Deadman making his last walk up the ramp at WrestleMania was something I just was not mentally prepared for. Damn near broke my heart.


I feel that. I was all alone at 4 AM in my living room with the lights turned off and I damn near wanted to stand up and clap in unison with the crowd. Still feels surreal.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I was truly shocked at the time too. I was expecting a restart immediately (even though Lesnar pinned him legally) because I always believed the streak would not go away. Especially to Lesnar who doesn't care about about winning and losing (at least that's what I have heard). T'was an emotional moment but a moment I will never forget. It wasn't a horrible decision by any means as it was shocking and a major talking point of Mania. Even the non-wrestling fans were talking about it!


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> TLC 2012. Watch their HIAC and SVS matches first too if you haven't seen them. AWESOME series of matches. Oh, and their Lumberjack Frost match from the Christmas episode of Raw that year.
> 
> CS is my fav match from their series, so definintely have it over LMS. WM = CS for me in terms of quality.


Will do. Something I was planning on, 'cause I heard good things.

CS started so flat for me. It was hard for me to get into, but then I remember getting into it by the second half.

I have a feeling that I'm _really_ going to like the LMS. Just something about that stipulation and those two, sounds so good to me.


Could someone tell me if there's any good Brock matches not listed here, aside from the Eddie one? 

I've seen all of these, and want to make sure I'm not missing anything:


> Brock Lesnar vs. Jeff Hardy - Backlash 2002
> Brock Lesnar vs. Rob Van Dam- KoTR 2002
> Brock Lesnar & Undertaker vs. RVD & Flair - RAW 2002
> Brock Lesnar vs. Hogan - Smackdown 2002
> ...


Unpopular opinion time (what else is new?), I like Brock vs. Angle at WM better than their other matches together. I think that was one of Brock's best showings, from a pure wrestling standpoint. So evenly matched, and I loved the mat wrestling approach.

Also, Brock/Rock is probably still my favorite Brock match, but that Mysterio match is fucking phenomenal for what it was.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brock vs Benoit from Smackdown 4 Dec 2003 is badly needed in that list. One of the best TV matches and a must watch.

He also has a match with Flair on Raw in 2002 which I haven't seen but might be worth looking into.

Brock vs Rock is excellent. I just love all the energy in that match. One thing no one can deny with The Rock is the amount of energy and pace his matches have. Obviously not the ones since his return but his first run which is what he should be judged by.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

LilOMe, you missed the Chris Benoit match it seems.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Some Brock squashes are always fun, a few more matches:

vs RVD (Vengeance 2002)
vs Bubba Ray Dudley (06/10/02 - Think this is the date)
& Rey Mysterio vs Big Show & A-Train (01/16/03)
vs Chris Benoit (12/04/03)
vs Zack Gowen (08/21/03) 
vs Big Show vs Undertaker (08/28/03)
& John Cena vs Kurt Angle & Undertaker (10/02/03)
vs Mark Henry (08/01/02)

After a quick think.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Rock definitely is underrated with what he brings to the ring. That Brock/Rock match would not have come off so well if Brock were with anyone else. Rock's magnetism, personality, and sense of "bigness" for lack of a better term, helped make that match feel so damn good.

Brock was of course, so great, and the crowd was great, and I thought the whole thing was booked brilliantly. I want to go watch it again later now, lol. So fun, such a fun time.




Choke2Death said:


> Brock vs Benoit from Smackdown 4 Dec 2003 is badly needed in that list. One of the best TV matches and a must watch.
> 
> He also has a match with Flair on Raw in 2002 which I haven't seen but might be worth looking into.


Ah, I wish the network had this stuff up. Oh, actually it's in pretty good quality on Youtube. Will check it out later. Flair match sounds like it might be funny too.

Also, I've heard stuff about a Brock/Zack Gowen match. Apparently Brock was an excellent asshole in that match. 8/21/03 Smackdown, is that the one?


_ETA_:


> Brock vs Rock is excellent. I just love all the energy in that match. One thing no one can deny with The Rock is the amount of energy and pace his matches have. Obviously not the ones since his return but his first run which is what he should be judged by.


Well said.

Thanks, zep! I like Brock squashes. I like Brock everything. No telling where he'd be on my all-time faves if he actually wrestled more. He's already up there. Crazy.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

10/10/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar & Tajiri vs Rey Mysterio & Edge too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

What is everyone's OVERALL thoughts on WM 12? I wrote down a small write-up on that (and every other WM, which I will post later), and I wonder if y'all agree with me that it's kinda solid overall, if you disregard the Iron Man match. I think it's underrated tbh.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Taker/Nash and the Backlot Brawl were awesome.

I don't remember much of Austin/Vega (their strap match was good but I don't recall this) or the 6-man tag. Haters of HHH will like him getting squashed. Then there's the Iron Man...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Thanks, zep! I like Brock squashes. I like Brock everything. No telling where he'd be on my all-time faves if he actually wrestled more. He's already up there. Crazy.


NP. I keep saying it lol, but i do have to continue my Brock project at some point soon, think i finished at the build up to the Cena Backlash match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> What is everyone's OVERALL thoughts on WM 12? I wrote down a small write-up on that (and every other WM, which I will post later), and I wonder if y'all agree with me that it's kinda solid overall, if you disregard the Iron Man match. I think it's underrated tbh.


Its ok overall. Diesel/Taker is great, 6 man tag is good and backlot brawl is super fun. But the other 2 undercard matches SUCK and the Iron Man taking up an HOUR of the show and being awful prevents the show from being thought of any better.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, done my WM XXX Ramble! Link to it here: http://wrestlingview.co.uk/?p=1416 (yep, gonna be one of THOSE people and link you to my BLOG~! instead of just posting it here because I'm a cunt ).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HEY IT FUCKING WORKED! I CAN ACTUALLY VIEW ONE OF YOUR SITES~! :hb


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

Metzler's Mania Ratings:

The Usos vs Ryback/Axel vs Los Matadores vs Real Americans - ***3/4
Hunter vs Bryan - ****1/4
Shield vs Kane/NAO - **
Battle Royal - ***
Cena vs Wyatt - ***1/2
Brock vs Taker - *1/2 (mostly because he knew Taker worked most of the match concussed and was completely lost)
Divas Invitational - *1/4
Bryan vs Batista vs Orton - ****1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

JY57 said:


> Hunter vs Bryan - ****1/4
> Bryan vs Batista vs Orton - ****1/2


Lord Meltzer recognizing greatness. :meltzer


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Lord Meltzer recognizing greatness. :meltzer


Lord Meltzer enjoying spots a little too much.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*** for the main event Cal? I'm rewatching it now but I had thought it was at least **** just for the emotion and electricity


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I gave it *** for all of that + Bryan. The Batista/Orton crap really took the match down.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

IDK I enjoyed the Orton/Batista parts a whole hell lot more than I thought I would, I'm rewatching mania right now(Cena vs Wyatt starting right now), I have to go to work soon but I'll finish it tomorrow and post my thoughts on the show on my blog. 

Hope Cena/Wyatt holds up though


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I gave it ****1/2*. Not close to the best triple threat matches, and people are overrating it just because of the Bryan victory and the emotion. Just looking at Cal's ratings, they're very similar to mine on the rest of the big matches (same rating for Bryan/HHH and Cena/Wyatt, and only 1/4 difference on Taker/Brock).


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Emotion and excitement make a match good and add to the rating, I'm not knocking his rating at all(I just disagree) but I dont think 4 stars is overrating it at all, Meltzer overrated it, but anything from ****-****1/4 is fine.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I don't think anyone overrated the match (and the whole card for that matter) as much as TheGMofGods:



TheGMofGods said:


> Four Way Tag ***1/2
> HHH/Bryan *****
> Shield/OldfucksandKane **1/4
> Battle Royal ***1/4
> ...


I'm all for differing opinions, but a *****3/4 to ****** match suggests a all-time classic, virtually perfect match. No match on the card was that. Those ratings just scream blind fandom to me.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Would be interested in your take on some of the topics I brought up yesterday, ITT, Nost. :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nostalgia said:


> I don't think anyone overrated the match (and the whole card for that matter) as much as TheGMofGods:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm all for differing opinions, but a *****3/4 to ****** match suggests a all-time classic, virtually perfect match. No match on the card was that. Those ratings just scream blind fandom to me.


Honestly the one rating there that sticks out to me as the biggest WTF is the divas match :lmao.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

RFWHC said:


> Would be interested in your take on some of the topics I brought up yesterday, ITT, Nost. :side:


The redundant topic of who's a better all-round talent between Punk and Bryan that you brought up? :side: 

But anyway, Punk. The difference between Punk and Bryan's promo work is much bigger than the difference between Punk and Bryan's in-ring ability. Punk's had a LOT of great matches in the company, even those who are pissed at him now for walking out of the company can't ignore this. While also being one of the best, and most captivating guys on the mic. Bryan's never shown anything great on the mic, he's improved and I'll give him credit for that, but he's never blown me away with anything he's said. While Punk in the SES, pipebomb Punk in 2011, and Punk's heel work with Heyman during his WWE Title reign, have been some of the best displays of mic work I've ever seen from a wrestler. You can put charisma in Bryan's favor with how over as fuck he is, but Punk's still a very charismatic performer. Better look goes to Punk, but neither have great appearances, but Punk is more believable. Marketability factor goes to Punk to, he was selling a fuck ton of merchandise and even surpassed Cena at one point.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I gave it *** for all of that + Bryan. The Batista/Orton crap really took the match down.



Cal I'm trying to leave a comment on your webpage but it's not working. Anyway, just was gonna say, I think your WM 30 review is the single best PPV review you have ever done. While not as funny as some of your others, you really did a phenomenal job of conveying the story for all the matches and explaining why every move made sense. My ratings were really similar to yours:

Trips/Bryan: **** (agree on it being the best Hunter has looked since 2008)
Shield/NAO + Kane: **1/2
Battle Royal: **3/4
Cena/Wyatt: ****
Taker/Lesnar: ***1/2
Bryan/Orton/Batista: **** (one thing you can't deny, this match had the single greatest near fall since Taker/HBK WM 25)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Thanks . I was going for less funny and more "actual review" this time around. Felt only right for WM.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

*The Shield vs. The Wyatts* from Main Event 4/8 was almost as good as their first match. Almost. These guys know how to do meaningful and steady workovers, they know how to pace a match, and they're good at what they do. No dull moments, at all, everything is meaningful. So happy for Black (Rollins) and Brodie Lee (Harper) to find success in WWE, I feel like Harper is the best guy from both units, and he might accomplish the most if he plays his cards right. You know this is good when the praise comes from a guy who's not emotionally invested in WWE whatsoever and only watches the most pimped matches, heh.

****1/4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just finished watching the 2 great matches at The Bash 2009.

Jericho/Rey was just fucking awesome. There really are no other words to describe it. I decided to watch this one again after hearing them discuss it on Jericho's podcast and I'm so glad I did. Jericho was just such a dick in this match. He does all the old school dirty heel tricks and does them to perfection. Rey flies around all over the place while Jericho bases perfectly for him on all the high spots. Springboard to Codebreaker spot was gnarly. This match is now #4 on my all time favorite Jericho singles matches list, behind only the obvious ones with Benoit, Hunter, and Eddie. ****1/2

Punk/Hardy was WAY better than I remembered. For some reason I felt this match was just "good", like *** good last time I saw it. This time it went way up. Punk wasn't a full blown heel yet here, but he wasn't a face either as he took the title off Hardy in a heelish manner by cashing in after his ER Ladder match with Edge. Lots of nice, stiff strikes, some surprisingly competent mat work and snug submissions, a few cool high spots, and a hot finishing stretch make the 15 minutes or so of this match just fly by. Punk wasn't as good as he would get in a few years time, but Hardy was at the top of his game. Right now I only have the Cage match on SD ranked higher in their series. ****


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

More Punk/Hardy GAB lovers :mark:

Best match in the Punk/Hardy series outside the cage


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Honestly the one rating there that sticks out to me as the biggest WTF is the divas match :lmao.


Exactly what I was thinking. Must be an Eva Marie kind of guy. _*too lazy to get my genius smiley out*_

:hb @ you knowing Taker vs Brock is very good stuff now.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Jericho/Rey and Punk/Hardy from 2009 :banderas I love those series.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Cal I'm trying to leave a comment on your webpage but it's not working. Anyway, just was gonna say, I think your WM 30 review is the single best PPV review you have ever done. While not as funny as some of your others, you really did a phenomenal job of conveying the story for all the matches and explaining why every move made sense. My ratings were really similar to yours:
> 
> Trips/Bryan: **** (agree on it being the best Hunter has looked since 2008)
> Shield/NAO + Kane: **1/2
> ...


Trips/Taker at 27 and 28 each had a pretty damn awesome nearfall, imo. 

Going back to WM 30 and watching Cena/Wyatt, Brock/Taker and the main event again. Honestly don't remember really being into the main event until about midway through - was still on another planet from Brock/Taker.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Just finished watching the 2 great matches at The Bash 2009.
> 
> Jericho/Rey was just fucking awesome. There really are no other words to describe it. I decided to watch this one again after hearing them discuss it on Jericho's podcast and I'm so glad I did. Jericho was just such a dick in this match. He does all the old school dirty heel tricks and does them to perfection. Rey flies around all over the place while Jericho bases perfectly for him on all the high spots. Springboard to Codebreaker spot was gnarly. This match is now #4 on my all time favorite Jericho singles matches list, behind only the obvious ones with Benoit, Hunter, and Eddie. ****1/2


Was this the one that contained the stipulation of Rey demasking? If so, yeah, that was grand. One of Jericho's best matches that I've ever seen. Fully deserving of the praise.


Watched:

*Brock Lesnar vs. Chris Benoit - Smackdown December 4, 2003* - Fab. Loved that submission move that Brock used. Looked painful as hell. I liked the storyline going on here, and I liked Brock running from Benoit, even though I usually hate stuff like that, because it actually fit & seemed realistic in that scenario. 

This made Chris look strong as hell, but Chris played the role perfectly, and it didn't seem out of place or unrealistic at all.

Loved Brock being a bastard. Brock also sells so freakin' well. One of the best big men sellers ever. Love the way that it looks like he has springs in his legs (tm The Ultimate Warrior describing Perfect). It helps his selling so much, and I liked the way that he sold those German Suplexes.

Just a great match. 

**** 1/4.


*Brock Lesnar vs. Ric Flair - RAW 2002* - The was pretty good. Totally different from what I was expecting. I expected it to be a total squash. Liked how Flair talked about being the dirtiest player in the game, and then uses that during the match. Liked Brock's crazed look. 

LOL at the ending, though. Guess all heels need distraction and cheating...


*Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton [No Holds Barred] - Smackdown, January 27, 2006* - I saw this one before, and it's still great. Orton was so damn alive during this performance. Talking to the audience during the chinlocks "he's mine!", and selling chops better than I've ever seen anyone sell them ever. Dude seriously made them seem like the most painful thing on Earth. 


I've said this before, but I like how this match contained the technical wrestling at the start, and then went into the usage of weaponry, but I like that it didn't have a typical no holds barred feel. It felt like a wrestling match, that just contained some of that stuff when necessary.

The pendulum moment in this match was so great, as was Orton's sly smile. I didn't remember the result of the match, and I have to say, that this was a really well-worked in terms of not being able to determine at all who the winner would be.

**** 1/4 - **** 1/2.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

lol @ rep. Someone told me that was a "Brock Lock" when he used that on Mysterio. I almost said that, but I wasn't even sure that it was the same move, because it looked so different on Mysterio than it did on Benoit, because Mysterio's so small. :lmao

It's great, though. Don't know why he doesn't use it at all anymore. Might be one of the best looking submission moves I've ever seen.

Dude can do it all, it seems like.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Jericho/Rey and Punk/Hardy from 2009 :banderas I love those series.



Oh hell yea. Apparently the Jericho/Rey feud was pitched to Vince by Jericho. The entire feud was his idea, he really wanted to work with Rey as they had never had a proper program. Vince initially didn't want it to be about the mask, he asked Jericho "the mask idea doesn't make sense, why would you take the mask?" And Jericho responded "Because I'm a bully, and I want it. I want to take it from Rey so he can't have it. That's what bullies do." And Vince was immediately sold after that. Gotta love that man, he knows a great idea when hears it (most of the time :side



Odafin Tutuola said:


> Trips/Taker at 27 and 28 each had a pretty damn awesome nearfall, imo.


True, those would be the only rivals, but that near fall where Bryan hits the knee on Orton, then Batista throws him out and covers Orton is one of the few times I've literally jumped out of my seat watching a match. I felt, if they were gonna make Bryan lose, that is EXACTLY how they'd do it. Have it be his finisher and someone else steals the pin because it would both make Bryan look strong in losing AND be the single most heartbreaking way for an underdog face like Bryan's character to lose a match. Tell me when you saw it happen you weren't convinced that would be it. Even if you thought Bryan was gonna win going in, which I did, it still made my heart stop for a minute. The only other time that has happened for a false finish was the aforementioned WM 25 Tombstone kick out by HBK. JR saying "I just had an out of body experience!" While Taker has that completely stunned look on his face is one of the most memorable an jaw dropping moments in wrestling. Until Taker/Brock happened . That brings me to another point: JR should have been fucking calling the Streak match. He said all along he'd love to call Takers last match, it's so disappointing that that didn't happen. JR should have been in the booth when the Streak was broken, end of story. JR's commentary would have done so much to help get the story across to the fans at home.



LilOlMe said:


> Was this the one that contained the stipulation of Rey demasking? If so, yeah, that was grand. One of Jericho's best matches that I've ever seen. Fully deserving of the praise.
> 
> 
> Watched:
> ...



Brock/Benoit on SD is one of my favorite matches to watch. It got ****1/2 from me on last watch. Absolutely bad ass. That submission he uses is called "The Brock Lock". Looks like it is killing Benoit too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Lesnar/Benoit is great. Thought it was better than anything Brock did with Taker, probably. In fact I'd have it as Lesnar's #2, without having seen v. Punk yet.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Brock/Benoit on SD is one of my favorite matches to watch. It got ****1/2 from me on last watch. Absolutely bad ass. That submission he uses is called "The Brock Lock". Looks like it is killing Benoit too.


Yeah, I was actually debating whether to go **** 1/2 on it. It's one of those matches where I can tell that it's going to be seared into my memory, and certain moments will stay with me...those matches I tend to uprate a lot. So yeah, it's probably ****1/2ish.




Yeah1993 said:


> Lesnar/Benoit is great. Thought it was better than anything Brock did with Taker, probably. In fact I'd have it as Lesnar's #2
> 
> without having seen v. Punk yet.


What's your #1?

:lmao @ that last part. How can you guys get on everyone else for slowness, but not get on Yeah1993 for that?!


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> *Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton [No Holds Barred] - Smackdown, January 27, 2006* - I saw this one before, and it's still great. Orton was so damn alive during this performance. Talking to the audience during the chinlocks "he's mine!", and selling chops better than I've ever seen anyone sell them ever. Dude seriously made them seem like the most painful thing on Earth.
> 
> 
> I've said this before, but I like how this match contained the technical wrestling at the start, and then went into the usage of weaponry, but I like that it didn't have a typical no holds barred feel. It felt like a wrestling match, that just contained some of that stuff when necessary.
> ...


That match is awesome. Benoit is awesome. Orton in 2006 is awesome. God damn.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Because I never bring it up.  tbf I was watching SummerSlam live and the power cut out LITERALLY as the bell was ringing for Punk/Lesnar. :lmao

#1 is Lesnar/Cena.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> True, those would be the only rivals, but that near fall where Bryan hits the knee on Orton, then Batista throws him out and covers Orton is one of the few times I've literally jumped out of my seat watching a match. *I felt, if they were gonna make Bryan lose, that is EXACTLY how they'd do it. Have it be his finisher and someone else steals the pin because it would both make Bryan look strong in losing AND be the single most heartbreaking way for an underdog face like Bryan's character to lose a match. Tell me when you saw it happen you weren't convinced that would be it. * Even if you thought Bryan was gonna win going in, which I did, it still made my heart stop for a minute. The only other time that has happened for a false finish was the aforementioned WM 25 Tombstone kick out by HBK. JR saying "I just had an out of body experience!" While Taker has that completely stunned look on his face is one of the most memorable an jaw dropping moments in wrestling. Until Taker/Brock happened . That brings me to another point: JR should have been fucking calling the Streak match. He said all along he'd love to call Takers last match, it's so disappointing that that didn't happen. JR should have been in the booth when the Streak was broken, end of story. JR's commentary would have done so much to help get the story across to the fans at home.


Oh, I most certainly agree. As soon as Batista threw Bryan out, I felt so deflated, then Orton kicked out and I was off the couch. I wasn't convinced that Bryan was winning until he hit H with the sledgehammer. At that point, I thought that they had tried everything to eliminate Bryan so it was almost obvious, but it absolutely didn't make the moment any less great.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brock/Benoit is a classic. Benoit has to be the most believable "small guy" when it comes to going toe to toe with bigger men. Also love the way he takes the F5 in that match. Landing on his back.

Rewatched the NHB between Orton and Benoit a few days ago. I prefer their 13 Jan 06 match now but this one is still excellent. These will be even more glorious to watch when the Network finally uploads more of the old Raw and Smackdown episodes.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Curious if anyone found the RKO on Batista heart stopping? That was the only nearfall that really got me. I went into it 100% certain Bryan would win...I've been saying for months that if Bryan is involved at WM, he's not losing (nor losing against HHH).

So I guess that's why the nearfalls didn't have the effect on me that they had on other people. But the RKO one got me for some reason. Maybe it's because Bryan had been just thrown away on the outside, and I found Batista winning even less believable than Orton. 

I never bought the "Batista has winning in his contract" speculation, and if they were going to make an investment between the two at that moment (remember we're talking about a less than 0.5% chance of Bryan not winning anyway), I figured it'd be for Orton since he's younger & the band being played for Orton & HHH's "I don't know if even I can beat that guy [the old Viper]" comment cast the slightest shadow of doubt for me in _that_ moment.

Obviously in pivotal moments when you're invested, logic may not come into play anyway, so I'm wondering if that RKO on Batista was one of those nearfall moments that had people holding their breath.





Yeah1993 said:


> Because I never bring it up.  tbf I was watching SummerSlam live and the power cut out LITERALLY as the bell was ringing for Punk/Lesnar. :lmao
> 
> #1 is Lesnar/Cena.


That had to be so frustrating. Curious to hear your thoughts on Brock/Punk. Whether you're in the camp who finds Heyman's involvement too annoying, or whether you're in the camp where it doesn't bother you at all. I'm in the former, though obviously it's still a great match.




Choke2Death said:


> Brock/Benoit is a classic. Benoit has to be the most believable "small guy" when it comes to going toe to toe with bigger men. Also love the way he takes the F5 in that match. Landing on his back.
> 
> Rewatched the NHB between Orton and Benoit a few days ago. I prefer their 13 Jan 06 match now but this one is still excellent. These will be even more glorious to watch when the Network finally uploads more of the old Raw and Smackdown episodes.


I almost mentioned that I love the way that that F5 looked on Benoit! In fact, I came back to edit my post to say that, but got distracted by some grammatical mistakes I made, and corrected those instead. :lol

I didn't realize that that's why it looked so cool. I just thought that it was because Benoit was smaller than the guys that Brock typically goes against. RKO's always looked cool on Benoit too.

I'm gonna have to rewatch that 1/13/06 match. I think that was one of those Best of 7 series matches, and I wasn't as high on those as most other people were. Maybe that will change.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

So Dave Meltzer had his match ratings for Wrestlemania 30. 

He gave Taker/Lesnar a *1/2 star, which isn't surprising. He gave the main event ****1/2, which is what I feel the match deserved and is the rating I gave it. But he gave Bryan/HHH a ****1/4? Are you kidding me? I feel like this match is already quickly becoming one of the most underrated matches we've had in recent memory. I mean holy crap, that match was nearly perfect. What was wrong about it? I also disagree heavily with his Wyatt/Cena rating, he only gave the match a ***1/2 rating. Horrible underrating of what was an outstanding match, even though that's still a good rating.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Exactly what I was thinking. *Must be an Eva Marie kind of guy*. _*too lazy to get my genius smiley out*_
> 
> :hb @ you knowing Taker vs Brock is very good stuff now.


You rang ?


Bryan/hhh wasnt THAT good, c'mon now


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> I'm all for differing opinions, but a *****3/4 to ****** match suggests a all-time classic, virtually perfect match. No match on the card was that. Those ratings just scream blind fandom to me.


No blind fandom at all. Just the matches that we saw are the kinds of matches I am a sucker for. I love matches where heels play the role they are supposed to play and make the face look as strong as possible while still telling a story and having a match flow in a way that makes sense. To me that the match was basically perfect in every way.

Rewatched the main event earlier today and changed my mind on it and gave it a ****1/2. I kind of forgot how slowly everything drags after the RKO/Batista Bomb spot through the table and that just sort of takes the flow of the match away for me. 



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Honestly the one rating there that sticks out to me as the biggest WTF is the divas match :lmao.


God damn it. Meant to give it a *1/4, not a **1/4. Thanks for noticing.



SKINS said:


> You rang ?
> 
> 
> Bryan/hhh wasnt THAT good, c'mon now


What, where there not enough finishers at the end for you or something? They did nearly perfect storytelling, the way Trips worked on the shoulder was excellent and the way Bryan sold it was excellent. He worked his offense around it and it worked. Without a doubt it was THAT great, thank you very much.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> Curious if anyone found the RKO on Batista heart stopping? That was the only nearfall that really got me. I went into it 100% certain Bryan would win...I've been saying for months that if Bryan is involved at WM, he's not losing (nor losing against HHH).


The pessimistic Orton fan in me was 100% sure that he wasn't gonna leave as champion so I knew the RKO wouldn't end it even though it was timed perfectly for a finish. It's been kicked out of rather casually by Bryan and Cena in their big matches recently. What had me is the Running Knee when Batista threw Bryan out of the ring. If I'm not mistaken, the only time that move was hit and didn't end the match is at EC and even then Kane pulled the referee away rather than Orton kicking out.

Glad that they've not lost faith in Orton and instead had him be the first guy to kick out of that move.



> I almost mentioned that I love the way that that F5 looked on Benoit! In fact, I came back to edit my post to say that, but got distracted by some grammatical mistakes I made, and corrected those instead. :lol
> 
> I didn't realize that that's why it looked so cool. I just thought it was because Benoit was smaller than the average guys that Brock goes against. RKO's always looked cool on Benoit too.
> 
> I'm gonna have to rewatch that 1/13/06 match. I think that was one of those Best of 7 series matches, and I wasn't as high on those as most other people were. Maybe that will change.


Yeah, the way he spun in the air and ended up on his back simply stood out since it's so different to the F5s Brock normally executes. The only other time I think I've seen Brock F5 someone and they landed on their back is Big Show which is because his version of the move on Show looks like a cross between an F5 and FU.

RKOs on Benoit always got a lot of air time and looked wonderful every time. Come to think of it, every move Benoit took always looked great. He was the perfect size for everyone to hit their move on and was also a master in selling.

I wasn't big on the 13/1 match at first but the last couple of times I rewatched it, it really went up for me and is a top 10 Orton match now. (#13 when I did my list) I love the different mat wrestling approach it takes. You don't often see Orton do that. If I ever see him, I'll refer him to this match based on what he said about being a "technical wrestler" on that interview with Booker on SD before WM. :lol


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I thought Bryan/HHH was great. When I first watched it live, I called it my MOTY but after watching it again, I think I jumped the gun a little bit. Don't get me wrong, it's still a great match that had great psychology and told a good story, but I won't call it my definitive MOTY. It's certainly my top 3 for this year though, just behind Shield/Wyatts at Elimination Chamber and Zayn/Cesaro IV.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Brock/Benoit is a classic. Benoit has to be the most believable "small guy" when it comes to going toe to toe with bigger men. Also love the way he takes the F5 in that match. Landing on his back.
> 
> Rewatched the NHB between Orton and Benoit a few days ago. I prefer their 13 Jan 06 match now but this one is still excellent. These will be even more glorious to watch when the Network finally uploads more of the old Raw and Smackdown episodes.


Oh no doubt man. I'd say Eddie is definitely up there too, but when it comes to smaller guys, nobody is more believable going up against big dudes then Benoit. He just lays it in so heavy, with so much aggression and his hallmark intensity. To be honest, in some matches, Benoit is almost TOO believable as a small guy, he can make it borderline seem like it's a mismatch, in his favor :lol. He takes the whole "feisty like a pit bull" cliche to a whole new level. I'm probably a good 5-6 inches taller than Benoit, though obviously not nearly as built, but I'll tell you right now, if I had to look across the ring and see that man glaring at me, "fake" sport or not (hate the term fake but w/e) I'd probably shit myself.



TheGMofGods said:


> So Dave Meltzer had his match ratings for Wrestlemania 30.
> 
> He gave Taker/Lesnar a *1/2 star, which isn't surprising. He gave the main event ****1/2, which is what I feel the match deserved and is the rating I gave it. But he gave Bryan/HHH a ****1/4? Are you kidding me? I feel like this match is already quickly becoming one of the most underrated matches we've had in recent memory. I mean holy crap, that match was nearly perfect. What was wrong about it? I also disagree heavily with his Wyatt/Cena rating, he only gave the match a ***1/2 rating. Horrible underrating of what was an outstanding match, even though that's still a good rating.


And I think you're massively overrating it. I haven't seen anyone but you give it 5-stars, so how is it that we are all under rating it and you're the only one properly rating it.



SKINS said:


> You rang ?
> 
> 
> Bryan/hhh wasnt THAT good, c'mon now


Exactly. Don't get me wrong, it was a GREAT match, definitely MotN for me at WM 30, but go and watch that match side by side with a universally praised 5-star match like Austin/Angle Summerslam and tell me it's in the same league. I'm still amazed with how good Hunter was in that match, I was expecting the bulky, plodding, bullshit Trips from last years Mania/ER. Instead we get this shredded psycho, intent on destroying Bryan's hopes and dreams. It's really the Trips I gave up on ever seeing again. Even so, that match was still made by Bryan's selling and feisty, under dog, won't ever give up performance. Both guys carried there end. **** is the rating I gave it on first watch, **** is the rating I gave it after rewatching it on Tuesday. So I doubt my opinion will change. Second greatest WM opener ever, not in the league of Bret/Owen WM 10. Just my opinion.

Bryan clearly takes the cake for best WM performance ever. Having 2 ****+ matches, both MADE by his performance, is something I doubt we see topped.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

LilOlMe said:


> Curious if anyone found the RKO on Batista heart stopping? That was the only nearfall that really got me. I went into it 100% certain Bryan would win...I've been saying for months that if Bryan is involved at WM, he's not losing (nor losing against HHH).
> 
> So I guess that's why the nearfalls didn't have the effect on me that they had on other people. But the RKO one got me for some reason. Maybe it's because Bryan had been just thrown away on the outside, and I found Batista winning even less believable than Orton.
> 
> ...


Once Undertaker lost I was pretty confident that Bryan was going to win. But not for those two nearfalls. They both scared the shit out of me, especially when it looked like Batista was going to steal if from Bryan. I don't think there is anything better than when there is a nearfall that actually tricks you. It happens so rarely but when it does it's just the greatest feeling ever. 



TheGMofGods said:


> So Dave Meltzer had his match ratings for Wrestlemania 30.
> 
> He gave Taker/Lesnar a *1/2 star, which isn't surprising. He gave the main event ****1/2, which is what I feel the match deserved and is the rating I gave it. But he gave Bryan/HHH a ****1/4? Are you kidding me? I feel like this match is already quickly becoming one of the most underrated matches we've had in recent memory. I mean holy crap, that match was nearly perfect. What was wrong about it? I also disagree heavily with his Wyatt/Cena rating, he only gave the match a ***1/2 rating. Horrible underrating of what was an outstanding match, even though that's still a good rating.


I can't really disagree with the ratings that much. I probably would have just thrown up a "No Rating" for Undertaker/Lesnar because Undertaker was literally half conscious the entire time. I don't like rating matches when there is an injury that has such a bad impact on the match. 

The Bryan matches are fare, I would argue with anyone that has either in the ****-****1/2 range and I could see going higher as well. 

As far as Cena/Wyatt goes I can't say I disagree either. I have a feeling this is a match that was more enjoyable on TV though because from the crowd I'm sure I missed a lot of little things that Wyatt was doing. Probably a lot like Punk/Jericho from WM 28. I liked the match live but when I went back and watched it I thought it was masterpiece. Cena/Wyatt had some great moments in it but I thought a good chunk of it was kind of flat. That match really made me aware of how tired I was that night but I got sucked back into once Wyatt gave Cena the chair.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Brock/Benoit is a classic. Benoit has to be the most believable "small guy" when it comes to going toe to toe with bigger men.





The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Oh no doubt man. I'd say Eddie is definitely up there too, but when it comes to smaller guys, nobody is more believable going up against big dudes then Benoit. He just lays it in so heavy, with so much aggression and his hallmark intensity. To be honest, in some matches, Benoit is almost TOO believable as a small guy, he can make it borderline seem like it's a mismatch, in his favor :lol.


This is exactly why I had no problem with the way that the Benoit/Brock match was worked & how it all unfolded. It didn't even cross my mind that Brock looked "weak" or like a "typical heel" or whatever. It just seemed exactly as it was supposed to be. That's fucking amazing, because it's BROCK. 





Choke2Death said:


> The pessimistic Orton fan in me was 100% sure that he wasn't gonna leave as champion so I knew the RKO wouldn't end it even though it was timed perfectly for a finish. It's been kicked out of rather casually by Bryan and Cena in their big matches recently. What had me is the Running Knee when Batista threw Bryan out of the ring. If I'm not mistaken, the only time that move was hit and didn't end the match is at EC and even then Kane pulled the referee away rather than Orton kicking out.
> 
> Glad that they've not lost faith in Orton and instead had him be the first guy to kick out of that move.


Yeah, I was 100% sure he wouldn't either, which is why it's funny that that moment actually got me. I think it's probably because the timing was so beautifully executed. IIRC, it was basically out of nowhere, and RIGHT after Bryan had been eliminated completely out of the equation. Well done and well booked.

I thought it was good for Orton's sake that Batista was the one that tapped. I think maybe they only did that because it puts Bryan over even strong. Orton tapping out was to be expected. Then again, maybe they do see that they've been hurting Orton, and he's the better investment because he's younger & more committed over the long run, so maybe they factored all of that in. I don't know.



> I wasn't big on the 13/1 match at first but the last couple of times I rewatched it, it really went up for me and is a top 10 Orton match now. (#13 when I did my list) I love the different mat wrestling approach it takes. You don't often see Orton do that. If I ever see him, I'll refer him to this match based on what he said about being a "technical wrestler" on that interview with Booker on SD before WM. :lol


Yeah, I smiled and thought of our conversations when he said that. Shame he doesn't think of himself that way, and I think that it's due to that never really being a prevailing perception/talking point about him. Funny how other people's messaging (or lack thereof) may influence even our own thinking about ourselves.

It's interesting that he zoned in on that, because that was exactly my reaction when H made that comment too. I was basically like "wow, he actually praised an aspect of Orton that doesn't get enough attention or respect." H may be smarter than I thought.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

TheGMofGods said:


> No blind fandom at all. Just the matches that we saw are the kinds of matches I am a sucker for. I love matches where heels play the role they are supposed to play and make the face look as strong as possible while still telling a story and having a match flow in a way that makes sense. To me that the match was basically perfect in every way.
> 
> Rewatched the main event earlier today and changed my mind on it and gave it a ****1/2. I kind of forgot how slowly everything drags after the RKO/Batista Bomb spot through the table and that just sort of takes the flow of the match away for me.
> 
> ...





The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Exactly. Don't get me wrong, it was a GREAT match, definitely MotN for me at WM 30, but go and watch that match side by side with a universally praised 5-star match like Austin/Angle Summerslam and tell me it's in the same league. I'm still amazed with how good Hunter was in that match, I was expecting the bulky, plodding, bullshit Trips from last years Mania/ER. Instead we get this shredded psycho, intent on destroying Bryan's hopes and dreams. It's really the Trips I gave up on ever seeing again. Even so, that match was still made by Bryan's selling and feisty, under dog, won't ever give up performance. Both guys carried there end. **** is the rating I gave it on first watch, **** is the rating I gave it after rewatching it on Tuesday. So I doubt my opinion will change. Second greatest WM opener ever, not in the league of Bret/Owen WM 10. Just my opinion.
> 
> Bryan clearly takes the cake for best WM performance ever. Having 2 ****+ matches, both MADE by his performance, is something I doubt we see topped.


Hehe, you got me I LOVE A good false finish fest :hbk

No, I never said its a bad match good, yes the story told was grant, its just not perfect or anywhere near it. ***** stars usually imply the match was perfect which it wasnt. Thats why I dont do stars because case in point some of you guys juggling between w/ * and ** for the divas match, lol I would give it a -***** match.

Yea I was saying in the build up, HHH looked the best he has in over a decade so I guess the Gracies is working, thanks Punk


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If someone had a fetish for star ratings right now they'd be dead. Sheesh. At least nobody is taking these opinions too seriously...


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

:side: So.. is this a bad time to say that i finally watched Hart/Austin (WM13) and simply thought it was really good ?

Sid/Taker was terrible but Hart coming to the ring to complain only to get powerbomb'd was hilarious.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

There is a thread just named "Meltzer's ratings" in the PPV thread :ti


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Glad it's there and not here. _(completely)_ :troll

So, yeah WM was totally great and stuff. You know what else is? WCW 1992. It was relevant yesterday. I'm not beating a dead horse. Shut up. I want a Dangerous Alliance tag in my eyesight right now.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

TheGMofGods said:


> So Dave Meltzer had his match ratings for Wrestlemania 30.
> 
> He gave Taker/Lesnar a *1/2 star, which isn't surprising. He gave the main event ****1/2, which is what I feel the match deserved and is the rating I gave it. But he gave Bryan/HHH a ****1/4? Are you kidding me? I feel like this match is already quickly becoming one of the most underrated matches we've had in recent memory. I mean holy crap, that match was nearly perfect. What was wrong about it? I also disagree heavily with his Wyatt/Cena rating, he only gave the match a ***1/2 rating. Horrible underrating of what was an outstanding match, even though that's still a good rating.


Taker/Lesnar deserves that rating for sure. Bad match. I don't use star ratings anymore but if I did I'd also slap ****1/4 on Bryan/H. Excellent match but not an all-time classic. Don't disagree too much with his rating of Wyatt/Cena either. I'd go higher than ***1/2 but not by much. ***3/4 I guess. I wouldn't look at it as Meltzer or anybody else underrating matches if I were you. Just look at it as them not enjoying it as much as you did or not thinking it was as good as you thought it was. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I honestly wouldn't take Meltzer's ratings too seriously. Plus, he'd have Taker/Brock at ****3/4 if Tokyo Dome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Plus, he'd have Taker/Brock at ****3/4 if Tokyo Dome.


Well who wouldn't? :sansa


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I just watched Brock/Taker. Maybe it's the late hour, but the second half just lost me. I enjoyed the first half, I guess, but from about the first F5, I started losing interest. Good bit of what Brock did was good because it's Brock, and his strikes are great. I really like how Brock counters the second Tombstone attempt. Pretty sure I saw where Taker supposedly got his concussion (on the single leg takedown on the floor), but he didn't look like he was out of it. Seriously can't even find the fucks to give it a rating.

Also watched Hunter's entrance again, since I had the show up. Seriously one of the GOAT entrances of all times. Never tiring of it, though you folks probably tired of hearing about it.

:trips3


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Brock in NJPW. How was he?


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> Pretty sure I saw where Taker supposedly got his concussion (on the single leg takedown on the floor), but he didn't look like he was out of it.


That's something that I found, too. I watched the match and I never really felt like he was totally out of it. He just looked tired to me. Brock, too. The two of them just looked totally blown up.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ruiner87 said:


> That's something that I found, too. I watched the match and I never really felt like he was totally out of it. He just looked tired to me. Brock, too. The two of them just looked totally blown up.


Brock didn't look tired to me, he looked like he was working extra slow to buy time for Taker. The match was just a mess. Didn't come together at all.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Big Dave also gave Shield/Wyatts from Main Event a *****1/4*, so it looks like he finally figured things out :meltzer.

I smile ear-to-ear every time somebody praises Punk/Hardy from The Bash. One of my favorite stories in wrestling is the conflicted wrestler who is deciding between right and wrong. Eddie Guerrero was the master of this, and there are times where I feel that you could replace Eddie's opponent with anyone in the world, including UC, and if Eddie wrestled that conflicted persona, he would mold an awesome match. Punk has also used this story many times, especially in 2009 during his face transitioning into a heel phase. 

It's best demonstrated here against Jeff Hardy where Punk keeps teasing to the audience that he puts his own methods of defending his title over the interests of the fans. Very little of what Punk did when he was in control was illegal, but it felt vicious and built up sympathy for Hardy. And that really was the story of the beginning of the feud; Punk did nothing wrong by cashing in on Jeff Hardy. He just didn't do it in the interest of the fans, just like his offense here, which isn't typical 2008-2009 face Punk offense. Can you really fault Punk for wanting to get a countout? Can you really fault Punk for asking the ref to count Jeff Hardy out? 

It was brilliant how this match was structured with Punk in control, because at the time, Punk was honestly not seen as a credible champion, so this really put him over as well as generate more and more sympathy for Jeff. There was this one specific look to the crowd that Punk does after a hard body slam that doesn't look like face Punk at all. Instead, it was done to subtly piss off the crowd. Subtle, but effective. As the match progressed, we saw more and more of these "heelish tendencies", whether it was through showing frustration or hitting stiff elbows and kicks on Hardy. Instead of pulling Jeff up by the body, Punk starts pulling him up by the hair. Instead of bumping for the sake of drawing sympathy, Punk bumps like a clumsy oaf of sorts and does it for the purpose of opening up a spot for Jeff Hardy to go into his pockets of offense.

The false finish at the "end" of this match couldn't have gone any better. First of all, it wasn't that obvious that the ref would restart the match. I was legitimately surprised by it. More importantly though, the choice of having Punk put his leg under the rope (and not even touching it) gave off the feeling that Hardy was cheated, but once again, Punk didn't do anything wrong. What he did just wasn't popular. What happens afterwards where Hardy hits Punk in the eye with his elbow was also very well done. Punk sold it so well that you initially thought he got hurt, but when he kicked the referee in the back, you couldn't help but feel that this was all calculated by the guy that was driven throughout the match to go closer and closer to doing something like that. Perhaps Punk sensed that his title was about to leave his hands, so he had to resort to such a tactic. But Punk still had a valid excuse as Jim Ross outlined, and he still hasn't actually turned heel. Despite the valid reason, you could still feel very sorry for Hardy since he lost his chance to win the title off of technicalities, none of which you can fully blame Punk. Eventually this leads him to take the sore loser's approach and attacks Punk, who did no wrong to begin with.

I wouldn't call this match a carryjob because Jeff was really good here too. However, this match was nothing like anything Hardy was ever in, and you can clearly tell Punk was the one calling the match. I really suggest anyone that likes this match to watch all of the Punk/Morrison 2009 matches, as they are very similar. WOOLCOCK actually did a really nice review of three of them.

If I were to give shift-8's to this, it would probably be a strong ****** that leans closer to *****1/4* than ****3/4*. But the snowflakes really don't tell you just how great this character exposition of a conflicted man was. When this match initially occurred, it was criticized by many for having an inconclusive ending to a PPV title match, but little did those critics know the brilliance of it in the context of this incredible feud. So anybody that has not seen this match before, or has seen it and didn't think of it that highly, I urge you to watch it again and focus on how well Punk structures this match and expresses himself throughout it. Then you'll understand why I grin from ear-to-ear every time someone praises it.

No greater feeling than just writing about what you love. Isn't that right?


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> Brock didn't look tired to me, he looked like he was working extra slow to buy time for Taker. The match was just a mess. Didn't come together at all.


One of the guys I was watching with mentioned the same thing. I'll openly admit that I wasn't paying much attention because it *sucked*. Either way, it was certainly a very slow affair.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Brock in NJPW. How was he?


One or two were crap; rest being good stuff. Best match being the match vs Giant Bernard iirc.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I posted about some moments where you could clearly see that Taker was out of it, and Brock was having to guide him through everything (Brock wasn't blown up...he was just waiting & stalling because Taker's health wasn't good):



Spoiler: Post #1






LilOlMe said:


> I've seen that some people speculated that Taker got the concussion when Brock slammed him after one of the Hell's Gate submission moves.
> 
> I don't think so, because Taker was clearly out of it before then. I mentioned before that there were points where Brock was clearly just stalling to give Taker some time to get himself together. Right before even the first Hell's Gate was applied was one of those points.
> 
> ...








Spoiler: Post #2






LilOlMe said:


> Finished watching Brock/Taker. Couple of other things I wanted to add that I noticed. There's so much to notice now!
> 
> You could tell that Brock was assessing Taker's health virtually the whole time. After the first Hell's Gate, I think that they were supposed to go into that second Hell's Gate spot right away. Instead, Taker can barely even get himself up the ropes. Brock again stalls and looks to be assessing him. Finally you can hear him just say "let's do this." and he drags him quite gently for Brock.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> I posted about some moments where you could clearly see that Taker was out of it, and Brock was having to guide him through everything (Brock wasn't blown up...he was just waiting & stalling because Taker's health wasn't good):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OK, fair enough. I was actually taking a dump when both of the Hell's Gates were locked in. Barely looked like anything had changed when I came back.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> One or two were crap; rest being good stuff. Best match being the match vs Giant Bernard iirc.


Best match he had at Japan was with Albert? I might check that out. I heard Albert was pretty awesome in NJPW and was in a tag team with Karl Anderson (I'm digging his stuff) so I could also check those matches out. I also heard that he had a match with Shinsuke Nakamura mark so that's interesting.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> **yeah1993 edit; whatever he said before this doesn't matter**
> 
> WCW 1992. It was relevant yesterday. I'm not beating a dead horse. Shut up. I want a Dangerous Alliance tag in my eyesight right now.


DA tag, ummm..........

Rude/Zbyszko/Arn v. Dustin/Steamboat/Ron Simmons 1/11/92
Sting/Steamboat v. Rude/Austin 1/21/92
Rude/Eaton/Anderson v. Sting/Steiners 10/3/92

I'm sure you know the big ones like 2/22/92.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I haven't seen anyone but you give it 5-stars, so how is it that we are all under rating it and you're the only one properly rating it.


that doesn't mean anything, really. In a time where the Hart/Michaels iron man was a consensus all time classic, is one guy giving it ***1/2 underrating it because everyone else thinks it's ****3/4? Of course he's going to think his rating is more deserved, otherwise he wouldn't give it that rating. Obviously he nor I nor you nor anybody else would consider themselves truly, factually ''right'', but you'd have to think there's some truth to your opinion, otherwise it wouldn't be your opinion in the first place. I.........think that's relevant to what you said. Lord knows I stray off to a distant point while making another point sometimes.

On the note of opinions I don't see why the sight of Meltzer's ratings seem like cancer to so many people. I'd be curious what he thought of a show the same way I'd be curious what anybody else on the web thought of a show. I don't really agree with 90% of things Cal says but I would still want to know what he thought of __insert_thing_that_doesn't_involve_chavo_or_sting_here__.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Rock/Brock SS 02 or Brock/Angle SS 03?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Best match he had at Japan was with Albert? I might check that out. I heard Albert was pretty awesome in NJPW and was in a tag team with Karl Anderson (I'm digging his stuff) so I could also check those matches out. I also heard that he had a match with Shinsuke Nakamura mark so that's interesting.


Brock's Japan Tour

There's the list of everything he did over there. It isn't much, but I have good memories of most of it. Avoid the Angle match. SO bad. Nakamura match is good. Albert/Tensai/Bernard is no joke. I thought he was even quite good during his WWF tenure (and when he got to actually work on this late go too) but being in Japan totally showed the world how radical he is. Duo w/Anderson was def slick. Bad Intentions had a stranglehold on the tag championship picture. Dominate duo. Match vs Brock is everything you would want it to be. Here are the two matches:


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Rock/Brock SS 02 or Brock/Angle SS 03?


SummerSlam 2003, no question. ****1/4 for it. Just that little bit better than their WrestleMania match. SummerSlam 2002 is fine. Good, even. I'd go about *** on it.



> On the note of opinions I don't see why the sight of Meltzer's ratings seem like cancer to so many people. I'd be curious what he thought of a show the same way I'd be curious what anybody else on the web thought of a show. I don't really agree with 90% of things Cal says but I would still want to know what he thought of __insert_thing_that_doesn't_involve_chavo_or_sting_here__.


Agreed. I mean, I'd rate Meltzer's opinion over some random person on the board (that is, not in this thread), but it's nice to see what other people think of matches and events. I like to read through this thread for the same reason that I like to see Meltzer's ratings, or listen to Bryan Alvarez's PPV reports, etc. Seeing what other people think is good.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I'd go ****+ for both, only *** for Rock/Brock is highly underrating it imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> DA tag, ummm..........
> 
> Rude/Zbyszko/Arn v. Dustin/Steamboat/Ron Simmons 1/11/92
> Sting/Steamboat v. Rude/Austin 1/21/92
> ...


Please tell me you have a link to the two Sting ones being the wizard of finding links and all that jazz.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Brock's Japan Tour
> 
> There's the list of everything he did over there. It isn't much, but I have good memories of most of it. *Avoid the Angle match. SO bad.* Nakamura match is good. Albert/Tensai/Bernard is no joke. I thought he was even quite good during his WWF tenure (and when he got to actually work on this late go too) but being in Japan totally showed the world how radical he is. Duo w/Anderson was def slick. Bad Intentions had a stranglehold on the tag championship picture. Dominate duo. Match vs Brock is everything you would want it to be.


funnyfaces told me the same thing. Guess I'll stay away from that match lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

No really the biggest fan of that nakauma/lesnar bout, but the giant Bernard is pretty good


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> DA tag, ummm..........
> 
> Rude/Zbyszko/Arn v. Dustin/Steamboat/Ron Simmons 1/11/92
> Sting/Steamboat v. Rude/Austin 1/21/92
> ...




Maybe your right. But my point was more that if the general consensus is one thing, and yours is another, and it's something entirely subjective like wrestling match ratings, I'd think to myself "geeze I must love this match more than everyone" rather than "everyone else is wrong and is under rating it". And no, to be honest, I don't think there is any truth to be had in any of my opinions on wrestling matches. I like what I like because I like it, I'm sure you are the same way. 

Brock/Angle SS03'>Brock/Rock SS02'. But both are phenomenal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Rock/Brock SS 02 or Brock/Angle SS 03?


Neither. Austin vs Angle SummerSlam 2001. :sansa

but really for the two listed, hmm. Great question as I'm not really sure which I happen to prefer. Both are superb. Right off the top of my head I may have to say Brock vs Rock by the smallest hair. Have grown to love the holy high bejezus out of that match. It's THAT PPV, after all. Then again, 2003's is fairly underrated itself. There's a lot of good on it, minus the lacking main event.



StraightEdgeJesus said:


> funnyfaces told me the same thing. Guess I'll stay away from that match lol


(Y)



SKINS said:


> No really the biggest fan of that nakauma/lesnar bout, but the giant Bernard is pretty good


Not everything can be Flair vs Savage great when it comes to the goodies in Japan, amirite, my man?


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Please tell me you have a link to the two Sting ones being the wizard of finding links and all that jazz.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1mpui_steamboat-sting-vs-austin-rude_sport

quick google search didnt turn up the other one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Phenomenal.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao touché , but it wasn't just me Coldfish (gonna start calling him that) didn't like it either and he is a massive Brock mark


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Playful ball busting. I'm probably 100% certain Flair vs Savage, both motivated, has the Brock vs Nakamura match trumped. Shouldn't be hard to do as the latter is only "good" at most. Never did get around to seeing the former yet and this could be proper motivation to try and fit it in tonight. I got so much I watch, something tends to fall off my radar. :hayley2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao I'm joking with you to brother

yea I want to check out some of those tags now myself (wcw). Have you seen shield/Wyatt's III ?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> Brock didn't look tired to me, he looked like he was working extra slow to buy time for Taker. The match was just a mess. Didn't come together at all.


I think I read Brock was calling it and carrying 'Taker through it because 'Taker was so out of it that he forgot everything that was supposed to happen in there, plus Lesnar was obviously working the slower pace for 'Taker's benefit, which ultimately hurt the match and gave Lesnar his worst match since coming back to WWE (I won't count Lesnar vs. Show).

I'm still confused why they didn't tack a stipulation like No Holds Barred on it, but I guess if 'Taker really did realize during his training and prep for the match that this would be his last one and his body couldn't do it anymore, that played a part in it remaining a straight up singles match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm stoked for Extreme Rules guys. Feeling so good about the direction of the company right now and the match quality this year has been dope. 

Cesaro/Swagger at that event. :mark: They better not give it some stupid gimmick.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, SKINS watched it live yesterday. Terrific stuff.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Wow, just saw Meltzer's ratings, some stuff I agree with, some I think he overrated. Bryan-HHH and Wyatt-Cena get the same ratings from me (****1/4, ***1/2 respectively), but I think the main event is overrated. I think I gave it a ***1/4, I didn't re-watch it yet though but plan to soon and had Lesnar-Taker at **. Don't know if I want to re-watch that one though, even though I've seen the ending (third F5, finish) about a dozen times now.



Saint Dick said:


> I'm stoked for Extreme Rules guys. Feeling so good about the direction of the company right now and the match quality this year has been dope.
> 
> Cesaro/Swagger at that event. :mark: They better not give it some stupid gimmick.


New Era FTW.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bryan/HHH II
Shield/Authority
Cena/Wyatt II
Cesaro/Swagger
Paige/AJ

That's the makings of a pretty bossy card.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

On paper I only care about two matches, haha.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Star ratings are not comprehensive enough.

Hunter/Bryan wasn't an all-time classic but it was the best match of XXX. The only matches I'm aware of that have been all-time classics since Hunter/'Taker III at 'Mania would be Bork/Cena and Punk/Cena.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> On paper I only care about two matches, haha.


Three of them are likely to be good, one has The Shield in it, and the other is a women's match I'd bother to sit through. Enough to get me hyped. And that's without Sheamus, Ziggler, Del Rio, Henry, Show, etc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I normally hate each Extreme Rules PPV so I'm down on it until I see the event w/my eyes. Only one that hasn't sucked barring the specific match was 2012's. Which was booked to perfection.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I'm looking forward to Extreme Rules. A WarGames match would have been bad ass but I'm not holding my breath.



Razor King said:


> Star ratings are not comprehensive enough.
> 
> Hunter/Bryan wasn't an all-time classic but it was the best match of XXX. The only matches I'm aware of that have been all-time classics since Hunter/'Taker III at 'Mania would be Bork/Cena and Punk/Cena.


I didn't get into HHH-Taker III as much as I remember getting into it live when I watched it yesterday.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HHH being a NWA fan might just make it WarGames. At least that's what the rumor said.

Anyway, here's my WM write-up overkill. They're small so please don't skip them  :



> A LOOK BACK ON 30 YEARS OF WRESTLEMANIA
> *WM 1* - It put a lot more emphasis into entertainment than wrestling, which is reasonable considering it was CelebrityMania much more so than WRESTLEMania, however the wrestling does lack a lot as a price. As a wrestling show it kinda sucks, but still you should take it rather than leaving it since it's still a very fun event and one of the most historically important in wrestling history.
> 
> *WM 2* - Jesus, this sucked. Top 3 worst material imo. Definitely avoid. The best two matches of the card were Tag matches I personally consider only kinda good at best, one of those being a complete carryjob by ONE of those guys (Terry Funk). Everything else is either fun but forgettable or just garbage. The always diverse atmosphere didn't help. Try to forget this one existed for your (and everyone's) own good.
> ...


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Brock in NJPW. How was he?


Borderline terrible. I'm not even sure he had a three star match, IIRC, maybe the Bernard one. Maybe even the Nagata one, but I don't remember anything about it at the moment, tbf. Refused to put over Tanahashi (aka the best wrestler in world) and ran away to Inoki's newfounded IGF (Insane Genome Federation), so fuck him for that. He was the last piece of the batshit crazy MMA puzzle that almost killed New Japan, and 8 years later, they're still in a transitional phase of recovering from it.




TheGMofGods said:


> So Dave Meltzer had his match ratings for Wrestlemania 30.
> 
> He gave Taker/Lesnar a *1/2 star, which isn't surprising. He gave the main event ****1/2, which is what I feel the match deserved and is the rating I gave it. But he gave Bryan/HHH a ****1/4? Are you kidding me? I feel like this match is already quickly becoming one of the most underrated matches we've had in recent memory. I mean holy crap, that match was nearly perfect. What was wrong about it? I also disagree heavily with his Wyatt/Cena rating, he only gave the match a ***1/2 rating. Horrible underrating of what was an outstanding match, even though that's still a good rating.


Why are you taking Meltzer's ratings as something that's official and runs on CNN, ESPN, Eurosport and Wall Street Journal?




funnyfaces1 said:


> Big Dave also gave Shield/Wyatts from Main Event a *****1/4*, so it looks like he finally figured things out :meltzer.


:meltzer

It was a great match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Another House Show upload; 

*Steve Austin & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Triple H (Handheld House Show) (28.01.2001) (Philadelphia)*

'No Disqualification Tag Team Match'

x1nkm17


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Seem to recall someone asking for this last week or something and I said I'd do it. Then I didn't. But now I did. Yey me.

Mark Henry Vs Chris Benoit - WWE Smackdown May 26th 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k1T0Vxt8zQHFj86Mg6K

Best quality is 380 rather than 480, just because the quality from my source file isn't a proper DVD version like my Raw 04 uploads were. One day when I actually have money I might look to get SD 06 on DVD (along with loads of others lol).

Currently uploading the 3 Eddie & Tajiri/Shelton & Hass tags from SD 03 as well.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

* "Stunning" Steve Austin, Bobby Eaton, Larry Zbyszko, and Arn Anderson vs Sting, Ricky Steamboat, Dustin Rhodes, Barry Windham, and Nikita Koloff (WCW WrestleWar 02/24/1992)*
With all the talk of bring War Games to the WWE, I downloaded a torrent of the first four War Games and got watching. I thought the first three matches were flawed yet consistently enjoyable matches because of the fast pace and awesome little moments like Brian Pillman kicking all kinds of ass in III. I found it hard to fully get emotionally attached to the match as there can be too much going on at once and knowing that the match won't end until everyone is in the two rings at the end sucks out a lot of the drama, but that was until I saw War Games 1992...

Firstly, just look at the talent involved: Steve Austin, Arn Anderson, Dustin Rhodes, Sting, Rick Rude, Ricky Steamboat and Barry Windham. With talent like this, how could this not be good? The match flows much better than any match of it's kind and every entrant adds something to the match. It's much easier to follow and has a fantastic ending. It's pretty much a predecessor for the gimmick matches like Elimination Chamber that came around a few years later. I can't see them topping this match, but I'd be happy to see if WWE could attempt it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Seem to recall someone asking for this last week or something and I said I'd do it. Then I didn't. But now I did. Yey me.
> 
> Mark Henry Vs Chris Benoit - WWE Smackdown May 26th 2006
> 
> ...



Cal you are so fucking hot right now. I was the one looking for that and I searched EVERYWHERE for a non-Spanish commentary link and just couldn't find it. Thank you sir.

ATF- love the write ups dude, but I gotta be honest: it bums me out when people say Savage/Steamboat WM 3 is "overrated". I know everyone is entitled to opinions and what not, but if more people would see how other wrestlers reacted to that match when it happened, they would understand that it's really impossible to overrate. I've seen wrestlers from the NWA say in interviews that when that match happened, they knew for certain that they had lost the war with the WWF, because now they not only had the awesome production values and larger than life characters, but they also had the best WRESTLING too. I've seen atleast 4-5 interviews where wrestlers call that match the greatest in wrestling history. That match broke the mold for what a WWF style match could be. It opened the doors for guys like Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, and Curt Hennig to become super stars, because now the standard for performance had been raised. It's similar to the HBK/Razor ladder match, except I don't think it's even close to being as dated as that match is. Hell, just listen to Jesse on commentary, he turns into a total mark at one point and says "I think this is one of the greatest matches I've ever seen, Gorilla." I still think it's a 5-star match and a top 5 match in Mania history.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Why are you taking Meltzer's ratings as something that's official and runs on CNN, ESPN, Eurosport and Wall Street Journal?


I'm not. I'm criticizing his ratings for once again being inconsistent and showing clear favoritism towards matches that have a bigger focus on spots than actual storytelling and pacing. His ratings make no sense (although oddly enough I find myself agreeing with all five of his 5 star rating matches that he gave to WWE matches).



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> And I think you're massively overrating it. I haven't seen anyone but you give it 5-stars, so how is it that we are all under rating it and you're the only one properly rating it.


Let me counter this with a question of my own. What exactly was Bryan/HHH missing here that matches like Austin/Angle from Summerslam or even Owen/Bret from Wrestlemania?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You gave HHH/Bryan the full five? Well I gave it ****1/2 which isn't too far off - it seriously deserves it tbh -, but the full five is just a little too much I'd say.

In all honesty, that may have just been the best HHH singles (no gimmick) match he's ever wrestled, with the match vs Rock at Backlash '00 being a close second, and even that was very Attitude Era'ish.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just finished Benoit/Henry SD

Man this was every bit as great as you all were saying. Henry was just ferocious, and Benoit's pit bull tenacity was on full display. Loved how he just powered out of the Crossface. Mark Henry does ugly in a wrestling ring better than almost anyone else. Brutal clubbing blows, body splashes, clothes lines, Henry was just decimating Benoit but Benoit refused to just take anything. He kept fighting and punching and clawing and kicking and doing everything in his power to take down the Leviathan, Mark Henry. Finish was just nuts, Henry repeatedly ramming Benoits back into the ring post causing a DQ, then Henry lifts Benoits head up and you see blood oozing out of Benoits mouth, simulating internal bleeding. Wonder if they used a blood capsul or if Benoit had a legit cut in his mouth. Either way, this is easily in my top 5 for favorite Henry matches. Amazing, just amazing. Thanks Cal. I give it ****1/4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, if it is as good as you pimped out, I might have missed a major gem in my WWE TV match list. It is Henry/Benoit, so it should.

Anyways, I decided to pimp Bryan/Wyatt a rewatch, and my God, even though my **** rating is still there, there is so, so much stuff in-between I didn't remember. Like that crazy ass footstomp, or Wyatt's insane character work (the "I told him" line after his running splash on the outside was quite chill-inducing imo), or the legwork that doesn't really matter for nothing but is still there anyway... fuck. Daniel fucking Bryan makes basically everything he touches gold, makes me wish Eddie Guerrero or Chris Benoit or Mr. Perfect were still here and in good form to have a lenghty match with him. But Bray fucking Wyatt may just be bordering on becoming my absolute fave out of the current roster. In the three matches he's had on PPV this year, the worst was ***3/4. I'm telling ya, the guy is a star. Husky Harris would've never bought me I once said, but holy fuck.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: you loved it more than me lol. Though I'd probably like it more than I did when I first watched it if I watched it now. Was pleasantly surprised when I ripped it earlier that they have Henry's theme live before the match too. Yet ANOTHER case of a heel having his theme sung live lol. Finish was an awesome way of taking Benoit out for his "sabbatical" and building Henry up.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

For anyone that's a fan of WRESTLING, and wants to see one of the most bad ass matches that there has ever been, check out this beauty:







It really doesn't get too much better than that, atleast for me. This is my absolute favorite style of match, executed flawlessly. Two of the greatest to ever lace a pair of boots just destroying each other and fighting to the death for control over a limb for 15 solid minutes.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Benoit/Regal is indeed a rather classic pair. I believe they had two Velocity matches in 2005, they both kicked ass. _**coughNoMercyisbettercough**_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Eddie Guerrero and Tajiri Vs Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Hass - WWE Smackdown May 22nd, May 29th & July 3rd 2003*

Man, what a series of matches. All 4 guys have wonderful chemistry together, and I loved the team of Eddie and Tajiri. If only they put them together from the start instead of fucking Chavo.

22/05 match is superb. Eddie FIP is just wonderful and I loved everything about the match. Tajiri coming off the hot tag and doing the springboard elbow, but kicking Hass on the apron when he does the hand stand off the ropes was :mark:. Finish is typical fun Lie, Cheat & Steal Eddie stuff.

Thought 20/05 was every bit as good tbh. This time around we have Tajiri as the FIP and he fucking kills it with the selling of his leg (and OH MY GOD at the kick to his knee that fucks him up in the first place. Glorious). Eddie hot tag is good shit, and then he ends up being double teamed a bit because Tajiri is still hurting. Oh, and DOUBLE KICK TO THE FACE as both Shelton and Tajiri go for kicks and catch each other at the same time. Finish was :mark:. Another fun example of Eddie cheating to win.

03/07 match is a slight step down, not so much that you'd think it was anything close to bad, but enough to separate it from the previous two matches. That being said there were some stuff I adored in this one, specifically Team Angle blocking a hurricanrana by Tajiri and turning it into a powerbomb/springboard clothesline. Awesome, awesome spot. Finish falls a bit flat, especially for a title change, but the aftermath is :mark:. Though it seems to be missing from my upload which is odd, I know I ripped the whole thing. I'll get the disc out and rip just the end bit and upload it anyway lol.

Overall, great matches, and I'd rank them from best to "worst" in order of when they happened. ****, ***3/4 and ***1/4. 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kqtwswCFxGyTR46MlGT 22/05
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k19ff8Kbqa4kUR6MpTb 29/05
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4FEr9xoyutmyi6MtBn 03/07


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Benoit/Regal is indeed a rather classic pair. I believe they had two Velocity matches in 2005, they both kicked ass. _**coughNoMercyisbettercough**_


I can't find that other Veolicity match anywhere, and believe me I've looked.

I used to think No Mercy was the best of the bunch too, but now I'm not quite so sure. Out of the Pillman Memorial Show in 2000, the Velocity 2005 encounter I posted, and No Mercy 2006, they are all damn near equal in terms of absolute awesomeness. They all contain similar sequences but different twists put on them, too keep each match up fresh. All score a ridiculous 20 out of 10 on the stiffness/nastiness scale, and all result in Regal tapping to the Crossface. I'd just like to put over again how much I like it when Benoit finally locks the Crossface in perfectly, Regal taps immediately. Psychology wise, it shows Regal is smart. He knows he's fucked, so why take more punishment then necessary when you know you're going to have to tap anyway? All 3 matches get ****1/2+ from me.


Cal-that's the order I would have them in too, although my ratings were ****1/4, ****, and ***3/4. The match with Eddie as the FIP is my favorite, and also one of my favorite tags to rewatch. Eddie and Tajiri were such an awesome team, you're totally right, how great would it be if instead of Los Guerreros, we got Eddie and Tajiri for a whole year +? Eddie and Tajiri vs BANGLE :mark: :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I can't find that other Veolicity match anywhere, and believe me I've looked.


I think i have the other one, is the date in July?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I can't find that other Veolicity match anywhere, and believe me I've looked.


I can't find it either but http://www.profightdb.com/wrestler_search/chris-benoit-305.html?opp=316 also lists a second Velocity match. Weird, would like to see it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Speaking of Eddie and Tajiri, who would you guys say is your favorite "thrown together" tag team? I'm talking about when two wrestlers known for their singles careers get put together as a tag team for up to a year? Hell No? Benoit and Angle? Eddie and Tajiri?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> *Eddie Guerrero and Tajiri Vs Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Hass - WWE Smackdown May 22nd, May 29th & July 3rd 2003*
> 
> Man, what a series of matches. All 4 guys have wonderful chemistry together, and I loved the team of Eddie and Tajiri. If only they put them together from the start instead of fucking Chavo.
> 
> ...


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5SFzhr6UPfQzf6MvX8 end of the 03/07 match with Eddie attacking Tajiri. Crazy how just WEEKS after that, Eddie was already well on his way to becoming the most popular guy on the planet :lmao.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Need some WWE ppv's to watch on the network, already got BL 00


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5SFzhr6UPfQzf6MvX8 end of the 03/07 match with Eddie attacking Tajiri. Crazy how just WEEKS after that, Eddie was already well on his way to becoming the most popular guy on the planet :lmao.



The story behind that is kinda funny. After the Vengeance match with Benoit, where Eddie was getting cheered like crazy despite his lying, cheating, and stealing, WWE brass really wanted to push Eddie as a baby face singles guy. Eddie however was stubborn as shit. He thought the only way he would ever be successful is as a heel, and he refused to accept being a baby face. That's how him attacking Tajiri came about, he wanted to do something to hopefully get him boos. The only problem was, as great as Tajiri is, fans just loved Eddie too much so they justified in their minds Eddie's reprehensible actions. When Eddie kept getting cheered after attacking Tajiri, he finally relented with the Creative team and let them turn him fully face, which led to the classic encounter with Lesnar at NWO. 

Eddie's book has lots of interesting tid bits like that. Including that when he hosed Big Show down with "shit", it was actually dog food and water, which is almost as disgusting if you ask me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah Eddie's book is great. Shame his DVD documentary was crap .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Need some WWE ppv's to watch on the network, already got BL 00



No Mercy 2003 is awesome.

Or you can always go with Vengeance 2002.

Or Fully Loaded 2000.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> No Mercy 2003 is awesome.
> 
> Or you can always go with Vengeance 2002.
> 
> Or Fully Loaded 2000.


I'd suggest Vengeance 03 instead. 02 doesn't really have anything outside of RVD/Lesnar and the triple threat.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Speaking of Eddie and Tajiri, who would you guys say is your favorite "thrown together" tag team? I'm talking about when two wrestlers known for their singles careers get put together as a tag team for up to a year? Hell No? Benoit and Angle? Eddie and Tajiri?


I for some reason really liked Kane & Big Show's team in 2005-2006. Had a pretty decent reign as tag champs too, before Kane began the whole May 19th thing. :side:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> No Mercy 2003 is awesome.
> 
> Or you can always go with Vengeance 2002.
> 
> Or Fully Loaded 2000.





DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I'd suggest Vengeance 03 instead. 02 doesn't really have anything outside of RVD/Lesnar and the triple threat.


(Y) I've actually seen Vengeance 03 and FL 00 so I'll go w/ NM 03


Does anyone else's Network run SO MUCH more smoothly on their Laptop as opposed to their gaming system ?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Speaking of Eddie and Tajiri, who would you guys say is your favorite "thrown together" tag team? I'm talking about when two wrestlers known for their singles careers get put together as a tag team for up to a year? Hell No? Benoit and Angle? Eddie and Tajiri?


Definitely Hell No. Not just for the match quality, but for the segments too (as in the good/legit funny segments). Anger Management was the most I laughed at a WWE comedy segment since Eddie stole the toilet paper while Big Show was taking a good shit : Plus, the Hell No/Shield feud was just :mark: .

What do you guys think are the best Tag matches (no gimmick, only 2-on-2) of their decades?

My choices:

1980's: Midnight Express vs Fantastics, CotC I
1990's: Dustin & Steamboat vs Enforcers, CotC XVII
2000's: Jericho & Benoit vs Powertrip, Raw 5/21/2001
2010's (so far): Hell No vs Shield, Raw 5/27/2013


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

ATF said:


> You gave HHH/Bryan the full five? Well I gave it ****1/2 which isn't too far off - it seriously deserves it tbh -, but the full five is just a little too much I'd say.
> 
> In all honesty, that may have just been the best HHH singles (no gimmick) match he's ever wrestled, with the match vs Rock at Backlash '00 being a close second, and even that was very Attitude Era'ish.


I don't really think that's giving too much credit though. And also, I can't really take some of the comments here saying I'm overrating the match seriously when those same people give high ratings to matches like angle/taker and hbk/taker from Wrestlemania 26, matches that don't deserve that praise.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Whats the best ECW ppv ever? Heatwave 97?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

TheGMofGods said:


> I don't really think that's giving too much credit though. And also, I can't really take some of the comments here saying I'm overrating the match seriously when those same people give high ratings to matches like angle/taker and *hbk/taker from Wrestlemania 26*, matches that don't deserve that praise.


Ok, that's one crazy ass opinion right there. How can you possibly think a match with some of the most badass storytelling ever, and one incredible selljob too, AND one of the most intense yet heartbreaking (pun not intended) finishes ever be undeserving of the high praise it gets? And it's not like the Angle/Taker stuff is undeserving either, but that's for other day.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Alim said:


> Whats the best ECW ppv ever? Heatwave 97?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


December to Dismember 2006 8*D.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Alim said:


> Whats the best ECW ppv ever? Heatwave 97?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Barely Legal 1997 and Heatwave 1998 get alot of praise.



DoubtGin said:


> I can't find it either but http://www.profightdb.com/wrestler_search/chris-benoit-305.html?opp=316 also lists a second Velocity match. Weird, would like to see it.





The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I can't find that other Veolicity match anywhere, and believe me I've looked.


these are two matches i think i have, think they are both the Velocity ones:

2005-07-16: Chris Benoit vs. William Regal
2005-10-01: Chris Benoit vs. William Regal


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Not sure if y'all missed it or not, but trying to recover a discussion here, I asked in the previous page what do you guys think are the best Tag matches of their respective decades, no gimmick and straight up 2-on-2. Trying for some diverse discussion here folks 

I chose for mine:
1980's: Midnight Express/Fanatics CotC I
1990's: Dustin & Steamboat/Enforcers CotC XVII
2000's: Jericho & Benoit/Powertrip Raw 2001
2010's: Hell No/Shield Raw May 2013


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

SKINS said:


> (Y) I've actually seen Vengeance 03 and FL 00 so I'll go w/ NM 03
> 
> 
> Does anyone else's Network run SO MUCH more smoothly on their Laptop as opposed to their gaming system ?


Don't have a gaming system, but I have a Roku 3, and it does run smoother on my laptop than my Roku.

However, when I plugged my Roku directly into my modem, and used wired internet instead of wireless, the network played super smoothly on my Roku, just like it did on my laptop.

If possible, wire your gaming system directly into the net. It'll make a world of difference, I'd reckon.

Also, Google your gaming system and "soft reset", and do what that says. That made a difference for me on the Roku.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

SKINS said:


> (Y) I've actually seen Vengeance 03 and FL 00 so I'll go w/ NM 03
> 
> 
> Does anyone else's Network run SO MUCH more smoothly on their Laptop as opposed to their gaming system ?


Yeah, the Network runs much smoother on my laptop. I wanted to watch Wrestlemania on my Xbox, but the pre-show's video and audio quality was the dirt worst. For every minute or so of good quality, I'd get five of pixelated video and horrendous audio. It ended up forcing me to spend $65 for Wrestlemania (since I didn't want to watch it live on my laptop).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was there an Austin podcast this week with his Mania views?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

TheGMofGods said:


> I don't really think that's giving too much credit though. And also, I can't really take some of the comments here saying I'm overrating the match seriously when those same people give high ratings to matches like angle/taker and hbk/taker from Wrestlemania 26, matches that don't deserve that praise.


:lmao

strong


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

ATF said:


> Ok, that's one crazy ass opinion right there. How can you possibly think a match with some of the most badass storytelling ever, and one incredible selljob too, AND one of the most intense yet heartbreaking (pun not intended) finishes ever be undeserving of the high praise it gets?


Because that's not what the match had. I strongly suggest you go back and rewatch the match. You literally just threw in a bunch of things that this match never had. The selling was great, I'll admit, but in terms of storytelling, the match was horribly lacking and was nothing more than a giant spotfest followed by a 10 minute finisher fest that somehow got surpassed by the second Rock/Cena match. The first ten or so minutes? No flow, no direction, nothing. Just move after move after move that you could call happening a minute before it happened and that's it. Don't tell me this had some of the most badass storytelling ever, it didn't. The only thing that saved this match was the fact that it actually had great build up, unlike their Wrestlemania 25 match. But Wrestlemania 25 told the story of these guys pulling out all the stops and catching each other off guard at times that they wouldn't expect. Their styles meshed well together so perfectly there. But their Wrestlemania 26 match? Wasn't the case, and you're lying to yourself if you say otherwise.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Might attempt to finish NWO 04 tonight. I just have to try and motivate myself to watch a Chavo match. Even if I DO already think it's great (assuming it holds up, anyway), the effort I gotta make to watch any of his fucking matches is like, I dunno, C2D trying to sit through the BAD Punk matches for no real reason . Really says something when I'd rather watch a blindfold match involving NIDIA than a Chavo match :lmao.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan/HHH was awesome, but nowhere near a 5 star match IMO. I struggle to understand the ****1/2 ratings too, but the full 5 is pretty crazy for that match.

Then again, I have Taker/Punk from WM29 higher than anyone, so maybe I shouldn't talk.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Bought Wrestlemania 26 on blu ray today for $4.99. 3 disc edition. Pretty awesome deal. I'm tellin ya, if you guys live near a MovieStop, for the love of god stop and check it out!



Alim said:


> Whats the best ECW ppv ever? Heatwave 97?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Probably Barely Legal '97, but a lot of it is probably gonna depend on your preference towards the hardcore style I guess.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

TheGMofGods said:


> Because that's not what the match had. I strongly suggest you go back and rewatch the match. You literally just threw in a bunch of things that this match never had. The selling was great, I'll admit, but in terms of storytelling, the match was horribly lacking and was nothing more than a giant spotfest followed by a 10 minute finisher fest that somehow got surpassed by the second Rock/Cena match. The first ten or so minutes? No flow, no direction, nothing. Just move after move after move that you could call happening a minute before it happened and that's it. Don't tell me this had some of the most badass storytelling ever, it didn't. The only thing that saved this match was the fact that it actually had great build up, unlike their Wrestlemania 25 match. But Wrestlemania 25 told the story of these guys pulling out all the stops and catching each other off guard at times that they wouldn't expect. Their styles meshed well together so perfectly there. But their Wrestlemania 26 match? Wasn't the case, and you're lying to yourself if you say otherwise.


Dude, I'm not sure if you remember the same match as I do. Horrible storytelling? The first Goddamn thing that happens in the match, a match where HBK has his career on the line, is him MOCKING the Underfuckingtaker. HBK at his most classic - defiant at even the most deadly situation, and he didn't really care. If WM 25 was both guys pulling out all the stops for victory, then this is the _exact same_ situation. Don't know what changed there. And actually, much more so - it was fucking Streak vs. Career and it forced Taker to, once again pull out all the stops, and for Shawn to go beyond just that. The spots actually had a purpose - the mid-air Tombstone was a desperation spot, and the Moonsault through the table was what I mentioned, Shawn going beyond pulling out all the stops to maintain his career intact. Those are examples. Did I mention how Shawn beat the holy crap out of Taker's leg in the whole match? Yeah. Maybe the first few minutes didn't click, but things picked up so much afterwards I couldn't force myself to care. And you call this a finisher fest, like if they called an audible or something, well son like I said, it's STREAK VS. CAREER. They HAD to pull a finisher fest, and WM 25 is just as much guilty of that same thing as this is so I don't understand you. And the ending was phenomenal - again, Shawn knew he was fucked at that point, so why not go down in badass and defiant fashion, in typical fashion of HBK? MOCK AND SLAP THE FUCK OUTTA TAKER. The price? Most priceless Tombstone ever. I'm not sure if I'm lying to myself or not after all. Just saying, if you didn't like it it's up to you.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I gotta stand in TheGMofGods's defense here, I mean, opinions and all that jazz. For god's sake, I rated Nakamura/Tanahashi from 4/6 five fucking stars, and it kinda sucks to stand alone there, but waddaya gonna do, I watched the match three times already and find it picture perfect, the best match in YEARS. Hell, even BIG DAVE gave it only ****1/2. :side:

HayleySabin is my last hope. :cena5


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Bryan/HHH II
> Shield/Authority
> Cena/Wyatt II
> Cesaro/Swagger
> ...


Agreed. That looks pretty great to me on paper. 

Bryan/HHH II :mark:



TheGMofGods said:


> Bryan/HHH = *****


Was wondering if anyone would give it the full five. I honestly am not against it - it was definitely an amazing match and I can't really find much at fault with it. I'm not sure I'd go that high, but since I don't really rate matches anymore FUCK IT.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm just curious, why would anyone buy ppv DVD's at this point if they live in the US? Seems like a huge waste of money with the network? I can see buying sets that contain TV stuff but if you can get all the PPV's on the network why buy them on DVD?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed, SMITTY.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Having just watched the match, I feel so sorry for Taker. You can see he got the concussion after that leg takedown on the outside.

After that, Taker didn't really know what was going on, he was just going by natural instinct, for him to continue the match for so long afterwards is astounding tbh.

I'm sure Taker says to Brock "This is it" before that final F5, and just before Brock pins Taker, he clearly says something to Taker, whether it's reminding him this is the final pin I'm not sure.

Oh that you "You suck" fucking mong in the crowd, i'm sure Brock would want to pummel him let alone Taker, fucking worthless bellend.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

For those occasions where you don't have access to the internet? Or come into financial difficulty and can't afford the network any more? Or want a show without as many edits?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Hitman said:


> I'm sure Taker says to Brock "This is it" before that final F5, and just before Brock pins Taker, he clearly says something to Taker, whether it's reminding him this is the final pin I'm not sure.


He said "thank you" apparently. Read it somewhere this morning.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

ATF said:


> Dude, I'm not sure if you remember the same match as I do. Horrible storytelling? The first Goddamn thing that happens in the match, a match where HBK has his career on the line, is him MOCKING the Underfuckingtaker. HBK at his most classic - defiant at even the most deadly situation, and he didn't really care. If WM 25 was both guys pulling out all the stops for victory, then this is the _exact same_ situation. Don't know what changed there.


And this right here is where our problem occurs. You don't know what changed here? How about the fact that HBK's career is on the line? How about the fact that breaking the streak now for him means more than ever? How about the fact that he had become obsessed with the streak for basically an entire year, the thought of losing the match has clouded his memory and has made him sick to his stomach, it's cost him the opportunity to main event Wrestlemania, it cost him his tag team titles with Triple H, it cost him his opportunity to compete in the Elimination Chamber match, it made him lose his mind, it made him step away from the business.

That's what's so different about this match. And to start out the match, HBK mocks him? He mocks him?! How is this good storytelling? How does this in any way make any fucking sense? He finally got what he wanted, something that completely obsessed him and angered him and took over his life for an entire year and he put his career on the line, and he mocks him? In HBK/Flair, Flair was a guy who had a ton of respect for HBK, a guy who wanted the absolute best out of him, he loved the guy, he was anticipating the end, he wanted to go out in style and go out one last time in the way that only Flair can go out. And when the match started, he treated it as such. The match wasn't anywhere near being one of Flair's greatest matches, but it was definitely one of the best ways you could possibly end your career. HBK did not do that here, and you just pointed that out for me. You even said it yourself. He didn't care. I get that HBK didn't like Taker in anyway, but in a match such as this, treating it in such a way doesn't make sense. Just in that regard alone you're wrong.



ATF said:


> And you call this a finisher fest, like if they called an audible or something, well son like I said, it's STREAK VS. CAREER. They HAD to pull a finisher fest, and WM 25 is just as much guilty of that same thing as this is so I don't understand you.


There's a difference between having a finisher fest match and having multiple false finishes to create amazing emotion in a match. HBK/Taker from WM 26 did not do this. If anyone was being fooled by the false finishes they didn't learn their lesson from the WM 25 match, which I'll admit made it a lot harder for this match. 

And how the hell was WM 25 anywhere close to being what WM 26 was? You had one tombstone, which was set up brilliantly as if Michaels was caught, and then you had a second one finish the match. You had Michaels hit his finisher twice and couldn't put away Taker. Again, this is what you call creating a huge roller coaster ride of emotions in a match and playing with the audience which they did perfectly. You had the spots happen unexpectedly and you don't really have much time to let what just happened sink in, and after its over you're amazed. 

Now granted, they could have done that here, but you just pointed it out. HBK spent a good portion of the match beating the shit out of Taker's leg. Why am I pointing this out? No reason, other than the fact that we watched Taker catch Michaels who springboarded off of the second rope to the outside of the floor and tombstone him on the protective mat on the outside. A guy with a leg that was getting the shit beat out of it most of the time in a 25+ minute match just did that? Bullshit. Michaels doing an Ankle Lock? What?! And while Taker did a great job of selling the leg injury at first, later on in the match it just suddenly is healed and is barely a factor, despite Shawn constantly working on it? Michaels hits sweet chin music on the outside and does a moonsault into the announcers table?? And then followed by a third sweet chin music...that Taker kicks out of after sweet chin music, going through an announce table, and getting another sweet chin music. Blow me. Maybe I have to go back and rewatch the match for that instance alone, but from that and what I remember, there was no storytelling, it was nothing more than a 15 minute finisher fest where both guys simply set up the next spot, which was extremely predictable and in the time that it wasn't (like the Tombstone on the outside), it just ended up being incredibly stupid.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> He said "thank you" apparently. Read it somewhere this morning.


That is very poignant. I certainly have respect for the way Lesnar handled most of the match after the injury, like those German suplexes for example, and that final 'Thank you' was a very nice touch, as of course was Brock going to the hospital.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

GMofgods needs to stop coming in here just to cause arguments, did it last time with Savage/Warrior


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

GMofGods- just thought you outta now, Michaels called his match with Taker at WM 26 his favorite match of his career. He wrote a whole chapter in a WWE book about how great that match was and how much I meant to him. Fair to say for a guy like Michaels who has been involved in tons of great bouts over his career, for him to say that WM 26 was his favorite, it MUST be pretty special, right? Yea that's what I thought. You can have your opinion just so long as you know you aren't basing it on any sort of facts, just your own preference. Which is fine, but don't try and tell other people they are wrong for thinking otherwise.

And Angle and Taker SD 2003, NWO 2006, and SD 2006 are all GREAT matches. So there's that.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Brock went to the hospital too?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Brock went to the hospital too?


Yeah, Vince went in the ambulance, and apparently Brock followed in a car, im sure Heyman went too of course.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wow, that's pretty awesome.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Some kids on here thought Brock would 'shoot' on Taker. :lol Could they have been more wrong, Brock did his best to protect Taker after the incident, but maybe it was careless to do that spot in the first place, but it was an accident so its difficult to really point the blame TBH.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He has gone for takedowns on like every person he's faced since he has been back so it made sense given his MMA-influenced style. Just an unfortunate accident.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Brock went to the hospital too?


yeah Vince rode with Michelle and Taker in the Ambulance. Heyman & Brock followed them in their car


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

It's not really surprising that Brock went to the hospital too. For any of the people who have read Brock's book, you will see he's actually a really good dude who just so happens to be one of the few people in the world who have their priorities in order. Brock gets criticized for "not loving wrestling enough" and "just doing it for the money" and the fact that he only wrestles 3 times a year. From my point of view, he's one of the few sane people in wrestling. He loves his wife and kids more than anything, he refuses to miss out on raising his kids to the business of wrestling, and he chose to take less money to wrestle less dates just so he can be there. Props to him man, he probably won't end up in an ugly divorce like Orton and never get to see his kids. Brock could double or triple his yearly earnings easily if he felt like taking on a full time schedule, but he just won't do that and I don't know how you can criticize him for it. Especially with the business of wrestling, which has an AWFUL history of just using up the wrestlers then spitting them out. Brock doesn't want to end up like Eddie, as sad as that is to say. Plus, Brock always gives 100% every time he's in the ring! the same can't be said for many, many guys out there.

I DO wish Brock would double his dates to wrestle like 6 times a year, he'd still get all the time in the world for his family AND we would get a Brock match every other month. But I'm not Brock, I'm sure he has his reasons.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, im not asking or expecting Brock to go full time now or anything like that, but it would be nice for an extra PPV match at least after what happened at Mania.

But i guess with Brock, less is more.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> GMofGods- just thought you outta now, Michaels called his match with Taker at WM 26 his favorite match of his career. He wrote a whole chapter in a WWE book about how great that match was and how much I meant to him. Fair to say for a guy like Michaels who has been involved in tons of great bouts over his career, for him to say that WM 26 was his favorite, it MUST be pretty special, right?


Meh it's like ***1/4.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Meh it's like ***1/4.



Thanks man 

No idea why some don't like it. It's not as good as the original, but then again, when is the sequel ever as good as the original? Empire Strikes Back? Godfather II? The Two Towers? Those are really the only examples I can think of.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Thanks man


It's ******+, so I cancel out Yeah's rating. 

Funnyfaces, do you like Angle/HBK WMXXI? Need to know if all is still right in the world between you and I. Eff the rest of the thread. :woolcock


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Thanks man
> 
> No idea why some don't like it. It's not as good as the original, but then again, when is the sequel ever as good as the original? Empire Strikes Back? Godfather II? The Two Towers? Those are really the only examples I can think of.


Asides from those two....



There are actually many.


The Return of the King
Toy Story 2
The Dark Knight & TDK Rises
Star Trek II
Aliens
T2 Judgment Day
X2
Spider-Man 2
Catching Fire
Countless Bond ones if they all count as sequels - Goldfinger, GoldenEye, Casino Royale, Die Another Day and Skyfall to name a few
Prisoner Of Azkaban, Goblet Of Fire, Half-Blood Prince & both Deathly Hallows
Evil Dead II
_(and because we're not just counting movies, even though they might not count as direct sequels but fuck it)_
Super Mario 3, World, 64 & both Galaxy
A Link To The Past, Majora's Mask & Ocarina Of Time
Sonic 2 & 3
Every fucking GTA since the original except for Liberty City Stories (hated that one)
Arkham City
Portal 2
Red Dead Redemption
Every Fallout
Every Elder Scrolls
Every Street Fighter except for the first Alpha
Every Assassin's Creed except for Bloodlines
Tomb Raider II
Twisted Metal 2 & Black
Every Gran Turismo except 5 and 6 (and PSP obviously)
Every fucking sports game (sort-of)
Here Comes The Pain
SVR 2006 and 2007
etc. etc. etc.


Yeah, a lot of times actually.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It's a match that I don't see anything particularly wrong with (which is why I think it IS good), but also don't see anything that separates it from any other kinda-above-good match. I've read a bunch of write-ups on why it's a classic and they don't really seem to say anything that you couldn't apply to a match like Swagger/Del Rio on SmackDown from last year which I think is a way better leg work match than that one. The emotion and everything is brought up all the time but where is the emotion, exactly? Like the last twenty seconds and it's kind of cheesy with Shawn clinging to Taker's tights.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's WWE main event drama for you, though. I'm a sucker for it for whatever reason.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

In all seriousness, I can totally dig everyone having a different opinion (though I'll never be friends with someone who dislikes Savage/Warrior so watch the fuck out :side, and I know I've seen a lot of those here. Hate is abound in every turn. But hate (or sort-of it) on Taker/Shawn WM 26? Wow. I've almost seen it all. Where are we going now? The HIAC?


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

Bryan Alvarez, who was live at WM XXX, has his ratings:

Hunter/Bryan - *****1/2*
Shield vs Kane/NAO - **1/2*
Battle Royal - *****
Wyatt vs Cena - ***1/2*
Taker vs Brock - **1/4*
Divas - ***
Bryan vs Orton vs Batista - *****1/2*


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah never said he hated it. He said it's good, just not ****3/4-***** good like most people believe. I think it is, but to each their own.

edit Hunter/Bryan rating :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I didn't say a specific person hated it either. It's just... weird to see it not get too praised either, as I (and most folks I know) think it deserves, even if that does come off as a bit selfish. Taker/Shawn isn't a pair I'm too used to see NOT getting ****3/4-***** praise when it comes to their bigger/most recognized stuff (WM stuff and HIAC more specifically). But indeed to each his own. _Just remember, don't touch Savage/Warrior. :side:_


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Rebellion 2000 review 

UK PPV AKA a house show 

Match #1: T&A Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian*

These tables’ matches are getting way too fucking repetitive, they were novel at first, but they’ve become one of the worst things about the show, they’re basically the same match with a revolving door of tag teams. ALBERT is just such an underrated worker, he might not be able to go anymore, but I am a HUGE fan of his first run. Always thought it was funny that T&A sounds exactly like TNA :lol too bad they’re eliminated first though . Watching this makes me pumped for SUMMERSLAM which I think I will watch next, leaving NWO, Backlash, and Fully loaded left, pretty great way to end the project, then I can start 2001 :mark:. Eh this match was alright, basically more of the same and thank god their isn’t a bland tables match at Summerslam but there is TLC! These are fun in small doses, but one on every ppv is stupid at this point. ***1/2 

CAL SCALE: 1

Match #2: Ivory vs Lita

NO 

CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #3: Perry Saturn vs Steve Blackman 

*HOLY SHIT :mark: huge fan of both of these guys, really hope they pull off a STIFF match here as that is what they do best. Hardcore title match too? :mark:. Well this was FUN as fuck! Match was just classic hardcore title match material and was just bundles of fun from start to finish. Saturn actually wrestles well in this match, add in some fun TRASH CAN spots, you have yourself a fun as fuck match, recommend this gem. ****

CAL SCALE: 2 

Match #4: William Regal vs Hardcore Holly*

Considering I’ve NO’d this match before, I might as well do it again . NO
*
CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #5: Chyna & Billy Gunn Vs Eddie Guerrero & Dean Malenko*

Should be a fun match here, LOL at how many matches are on this card, just like a house show I guess. Becoming a bigger fan of Chyna the more I see of her in the ring, EDDIE and DEAN are both great of course too, only bad person here is fucking Billy Gunn. This was a pretty standard tag that wasn’t boring at all but the Radicalz really carried this match from being bad to it just being OK. LOL at Tazz in this match, calling Chynas tits Biscuits :ti. ***1/2 

CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #6: Kane vs Chris Jericho *

Considering that this isn’t a LMS match it should be good, I like their SVS match a fair bit, so I assume this should be good as well. LOL at the Y2gay sign btw. Match is pretty fun, nothing that good but much better than the LMS match for sure, not as good as SVS but it was pretty close. Just a fun brawl that got a decent amount of time, not sure if this was the first match in their series but IK they had at least 2 more ppv matches, one being good and the other one being DUD worthy. Kane ends up winning, but Jericho attacks him after the match, this show is so cookie cutter.* **3/4 

CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #7: The Goodfather & Bull Buchanan Vs The Hardy Boys
*
Such obvious filler this is, hopefully this is kept pretty short as the less RTC I see on my TV the better mood I am in. Love how people used to say the tag division was really good in 2000, yeah some bullshit that is, lots of stupid tables matches or filler like this, people just use the good stuff like the RR tables match and the TLC match to pretend all the other shit never happened. Match is alright, pretty much another average attitude era tag match, not as good as the earlier two tags but it wasn’t horrible by any means. ** 

CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #8: Chris Benoit vs The Undertaker 
*
This is the match I’ve really been looking forward to, it was a dream match for me until I learned that this actually happened a few times :lmao. Only bad thing is 2000 wasn’t exactly a career year for both men but it looks like I will have to settle for this. Match early on is really fun, just entertaining throughout and not very boring at all which is good considering some of Takers matches in 2000 we’re boring in parts. Taker’s selling of the knee was pretty good and it allowed Benoit to take control of the majority of the match, which was good. Taker wins through a roll up I think, I looked at my laptop for one second and the match ended. Great match though, easily MOTN so far. ****1/2 

CAL SCALE: 3 

Match #9: Rikishi vs Steve Austin vs The Rock vs Kurt Angle *

Where is Triple H? Surprised he isn’t on this card but :mark: at how fun this match may be. Pretty sure this is Angle’s first title defense, pretty fun reign he had tbh, love his match with Taker at SVS of this year. Great thing about this match is that there is always at least 3 people trying to beat the SHIT out of each other, not the typical 2 guys in the ring 2 guys not in the ring that I have come to expect from the WWE. Sure there is usually one guy on the outside but more likely than not we get the other three guys having an awesome brawl. Austin/Rock faceoff is awesome, crowd goes bonkers of course, good preview of their WM 17 classic too, looking forward to 2001 reviews so much! :mark:. I liked E&C coming out as well, because they had just said that they weren’t coming out to help Angle. Radicalz come out too, and Angle steals another win. Great match, tied with Benoit/Taker, maybe a bit better too. ****1/2

CAL SCALE: 3 

FINAL CAL SCALE: 9 

Current 2000 PPV rankings 

1: Judgment day (20)
2: The Royal Rumble (17)
3: Unforgiven (15.5)
4: No mercy (14) 
5: WrestleMania 2000(13)
6: King of the ring(11) 
7: Rebellion (9) 
8: Insurrextion (8.5)
9: Survivor Series (7) 
10: Armageddon (4)
*​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

When did Taker debut the Ministry theme? Was it the Raw after Judgement Day?

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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It was Regal Vs CRASH Holly, not Hardcore btw . And it's a fun little match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Is it? I saw Holly and assumed Hardcore Holly because they fought at the two shows after this, I always liked Crash a bit more than Bob so if I had knew that I might have watched it


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Might attempt to finish NWO 04 tonight. I just have to try and motivate myself to watch a Chavo match. Even if I DO already think it's great (assuming it holds up, anyway), the effort I gotta make to watch any of his fucking matches is like, I dunno,* C2D trying to sit through the BAD Punk matches for no real reason* . Really says something when I'd rather watch a blindfold match involving NIDIA than a Chavo match :lmao.


Hey, hey now. Let's not go that far! I may not like him at all but I've never felt that his ring work is such a struggle to put up with. Even at his worst. I could still be entertained by laughing at him and Burke hugging each other as they run the ropes because they completely lost the plot. 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Props to him man, he probably won't end up in an ugly divorce like Orton and never get to see his kids.


Of all the divorces that have happened, you pick Orton even though it's one of the more "civil" divorce cases?  

He still sees his ex-wife and daughter (they were there when he recaptured the title at SS 13 - just a month after the divorce), it's just he's free from being committed to them now. They settled everything with a fair split and I'm glad because I would hate for Orton to end up like Flair and Hogan where he still has to work in his 50-60s just because a divorce stripped him of all his money.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Hey, hey now. Let's not go that far! I may not like him at all but I've never felt that his ring work is such a struggle to put up with. Even at his worst. I could still be entertained by laughing at him and Burke hugging each other as they run the ropes because they completely lost the plot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




:lmao success! I threw Ortons name out on purpose hoping you'd read it and take exception. The other reason is, I recently watched Ortons documentary. In it, he and his wife seem totally happy together and seem like they will stay married for forever. Fast forward 3-4 years later, and they are divorced. My point was simply that the business takes a heavy toll on families. I really don't know how any families survive when you have a wife and kids at home and a dad who is on the road all the time. Mick Foleys wife must really be a gift from god, he's pretty much the only wrestler I know of who has a wife and multiple kids and who is still happily married after 20+ years. That's pretty impressive. Made even more impressive by the fact that his wife was actually pretty hot, and Mick is well, Mick, and she married him when he was main eventing Indy shows in front of a 500 person crowd. Really don't know how that worked out, but it did.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> :lmao success! I threw Ortons name out on purpose hoping you'd read it and take exception. The other reason is, I recently watched Ortons documentary. In it, he and his wife seem totally happy together and seem like they will stay married for forever. Fast forward 3-4 years later, and they are divorced. My point was simply that the business takes a heavy toll on families. I really don't know how any families survive when you have a wife and kids at home and a dad who is on the road all the time. Mick Foleys wife must really be a gift from god, he's pretty much the only wrestler I know of who has a wife and multiple kids and who is still happily married after 20+ years. That's pretty impressive. Made even more impressive by the fact that his wife was actually pretty hot, and Mick is well, Mick, and she married him when he was main eventing Indy shows in front of a 500 person crowd. Really don't know how that worked out, but it did.


Hah, I wouldn't care - it just came across as ignorant to refer to the divorce as ugly when they settled things in the best way possible for everyone involved. But you're right, I rewatched the documentary a couple of months ago and it was so different from the first time now that they are divorced and all this talk of her helping him take control of himself and beat his demons as if they're the best couple ever only to find out that they are separating two years later... it felt outdated suddenly.

You're right about the business, though. They are on the road every week and barely get any time off, which makes me wonder what makes so many of them take the marriage path when they wont even get a proper chance of being there with their wife and kids. Unless, of course, they marry someone who's on the road with them. Even without that, I have a hard time believing that I could manage to put up with their tough schedule.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> I didn't say a specific person hated it either. It's just... weird to see it not get too praised either, as I (and most folks I know) think it deserves, even if that does come off as a bit selfish. Taker/Shawn isn't a pair I'm too used to see NOT getting ****3/4-***** praise when it comes to their bigger/most recognized stuff (WM stuff and HIAC more specifically). But indeed to each his own. _Just remember, don't touch Savage/Warrior. :side:_


the best part about this is that I never thought Savage/Warrior was above ''good'' either. :lmao Watched it three times between 2009 and 2010 and just didn't get it. That one's on the re-watch-for-maybe-loving-it pile, though.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Eh, people like what they like. You can't tell somebody their subjective opinion about something is wrong. I know there are lots of matches that people love and that I find overrated to fuck when I see the star ratings put on them. I also know there are matches I love that other people think are shit. Opinions are like assholes and all that...

So I haven't seen Mania yet but here's what I would rate the main matches based on the live in arena viewing only. 

Trips/Bryan - ****1/4
Cena/Wyatt - ****
Lesnar/Taker - *
Orton/Bryan/Batista - ***3/4

So yeah, safe to say that if this holds up it will be one of the best Manias ever for me. I can't wait to see if anything goes up or down amd generally just to watch the show back to pick up on all the things I missed out on. Hopefully im able to male more sense out of the streak match because it was a POS in person, sorry but it was. Mania XXX and 28 are two of my favourite Mania's ever and both were an absolute blast to experience live. 

I'm crossing my fingers for Bryan/Hunter II at Extreme Rules because as awesome as their match was, I get the impression they were holding back a little because of the main event so I definitely hope to see them battling it out full throttle. Also Shield vs. Authority, Cesaro/Swagger, Paige/AJ and Cena/Wyatt will make for a :mark: card. Take my money, Vince, take it.

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----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2014 has been a great year for PPVs so far. WWE have got it 3 for 3 and ER looks to continue in that direction.

RR had Bryan/Wyatt, Orton/Cena (I'm the only fan probably but idgaf) and a fun Rumble (after WM, everyone should be able to get over the Batista thing)
EC had Shield/Wyatts, an entertaining crowd for ADR/Batista and an awesome chamber match
WM was 90% awesome top to bottom.

Unlike 2012 and 2013, they've kept it consistent for both. Last year we had lots of good TV matches but subpar PPVs and 2012 had some good PPV stuff but TV was the drizzling shits.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

THE :yes ERA IN FULL EFFECT 

It's awesome. 

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----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> GMofGods- just thought you outta now, Michaels called his match with Taker at WM 26 his favorite match of his career. He wrote a whole chapter in a WWE book about how great that match was and how much I meant to him. Fair to say for a guy like Michaels who has been involved in tons of great bouts over his career, for him to say that WM 26 was his favorite, it MUST be pretty special, right? Yea that's what I thought. You can have your opinion just so long as you know you aren't basing it on any sort of facts, just your own preference. Which is fine, but don't try and tell other people they are wrong for thinking otherwise.


That's not a very good argument. Bret Harts favorite match is his Iron Man match with Michaels at Wrestlemania, despite having matches like his Submission match with Austin or his matches with Owen or Bulldog, he points to that match. Daniel Bryan's favorite match is his match with William Regal on WWE Superstars. A match can be special for different reasons. And I never claimed someone to be wrong for liking a match, it's their reasoning that I call into question. You can have your tastes and what not, as I said before I'm a sucker for the kind of match I got out of HHH/Bryan, those are the matches that I enjoy the most. But I also felt nothing was missing and so far no one has really stated otherwise. If you try to argue something that clearly isn't true for reasoning as to why a match I'm claiming isn't so great is great, I will argue back about it. It's as simple as that.



SMITTY said:


> GMofgods needs to stop coming in here just to cause arguments, did it last time with Savage/Warrior


Actually I did it with three matches :draper2

Just sayin.

Okay, question, I've had my turn at it numerous times so now its your guys turn. What matches do you guys think weren't all that good that constantly gets praised by others? Come on, let them be heard.



Starbuck said:


> THE :yes ERA IN FULL EFFECT
> 
> It's awesome.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


:mark: The best wrestler in the world on top just the way it should be.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Bryan/HHH was awesome, but nowhere near a 5 star match IMO. I struggle to understand the ****1/2 ratings too, but the full 5 is pretty crazy for that match.
> 
> Then again, I have Taker/Punk from WM29 higher than anyone, so maybe I shouldn't talk.


I've seen some crazy marks been handed out for matches not deserving but it's all opinion, like Lesnar/Cena don't understand the 5 stars everyone hands out to it. I thought HHH/Bryan was HHH's best match in a long long time. I give it a 5 star cause it invested the crowd and proves Bryan is still the man in terms of in ring work in the WWE but HHH was amazing and I haven't seen him have that chemistry since Foley and The Rock back in 2000. But how do you struggle to understand yet you gave Wyatt/Cena a high mark when the crowd gave two shits about that match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

TLC II isn't very good at all, just a boring match that was basically recycled spots from the classic at Summerslam

Speaking of TLC I, I'm about to start my Summerslam 2000 review, I'm leaving for vacation on Tuesday, so I want to get my 2000 project done by then. This means that I need to post 1-2 reviews a day. when I get back, 2001 reviews start, which are going to be awesome :mark:


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Yeah, for example, I have both Lesnar/Cena and Lesnar/Punk at ***3/4, and seeing dudes throw five stars at those is creepy. But hey...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

hardyorton said:


> But how do you struggle to understand yet you gave Wyatt/Cena a high mark when the crowd gave two shits about that match.


You must have high expectations for crowd reactions or maybe all the "Yes" chants have spoiled you but from where I sit, the crowd was very much into Cena/Wyatt.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Everybody has their tastes and whether you're a fan of the guys in there has a big influence on your enjoyment of a match also. But people like what they like. No point trying to convince them otherwise. Discussing the reasons why you like or dislike something though, that's the fun part.

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----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Choke2Death said:


> You must have high expectations for crowd reactions or maybe all the "Yes" chants have spoiled you but from where I sit, the crowd was very much into Cena/Wyatt.


Really on Tv it make across like the crowd went in and out of the match to be honest but what you hear is different to me.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I re-watched Bryan vs. HHH from Wrestlemania and bumping it up to a ****1/2. God damn, HHH's arm work throughout the match was pretty much perfect. The crossface chicken wing and tiger suplex :mark: They didn't have to overdo finishers like they have in top matches to add drama, the crowd was hot, they had some great reversals in there. Just some damn good stuff. Bumped it up, probably a top 5 match of the year thus far, probably top 3, but I still have Wyatt-Shield from EC as the MOTY thus far.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Chismo said:


> Yeah, for example, I have both Lesnar/Cena and Lesnar/Punk at ***3/4, and seeing dudes throw five stars at those is creepy. But hey...


I think Lesnar is the man but sometimes I do think his UFC background comes into play and people think everything he does is badass, I thought the Punk match was my joint favourite match of the year last year along with Cena/Bryan. But Lesnar/Cena was just a good match and cause it was Lesnar's first match back and he just beats the crap out of Cena many throw the 5 star rating its way, I give the mark you gave it. With the Punk match I just have a problem with the fact many had a problem that Cena/Bryan was give the same equal marks as it and many got really got sniffy when Meltzer gave it the same marks.

It's all opinion of course.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

hardyorton said:


> Really on Tv it make across like the crowd went in and out of the match to be honest but what you hear is different to me.


I saw it on TV with the volume turned down in the middle of the night and the crowd looked very interactive and match had a pretty good atmosphere. I'm not even as high on it as some others but it was pretty good I gotta say. The whole event had quite an atmosphere, though. For me, I wont call a crowd dead unless it's on HHH/Brock from WM29 levels where you can hear the footsteps of people in the crowd coming and going. As long as there's some noise, I am fine with it.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Choke2Death said:


> I saw it on TV with the volume turned down in the middle of the night and the crowd looked very interactive and match had a pretty good atmosphere. I'm not even as high on it as some others but it was pretty good I gotta say. The whole event had quite an atmosphere, though. For me, I wont call a crowd dead unless it's on HHH/Brock from WM29 levels where you can hear the footsteps of people in the crowd coming and going. As long as there's some noise, I am fine with it.


I'm not saying it's a bad match at all but to say the crowd where on the edge of their seat would be a little OTT. But it got a reaction but I don't agree with BNS saying it was match of the night, he must either hate Bryan HHH or Orton/Batista to say Cena/Wyatt was better match then those two awesome matches.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Funnyfaces, do you like Angle/HBK WMXXI? Need to know if all is still right in the world between you and I. Eff the rest of the thread. :woolcock


Glad to see that I at least have one fan after isolating others with some nonchalant trolling this past month. I for one am flattered and feel the same about you.

I haven't watched the match in a while, but I do like Angle/HBK at WMXXI, but my love that I once had downgraded severely into "like". I used to consider this match the pinnacle of "technical wrestling" and I never understood how Dave Meltzer didn't give this five stars. Then I rewatched it last year and noticed some big flaws in an otherwise good match.

The first issue I had with the match was at the onset. I didn't really like how Shawn Michaels kept outwrestling Kurt freakin' Angle without much struggle. I can understand it being a pretty cool storytelling piece of a "lessler" mat wrestler outworks an amateur wrestler, but Angle does this so often that he lets Shane McMahon of all people outdo him on the mat, and I for one find that really dumb. I really liked the brawl in the outside and the apron german suplex tease. Angle also did a very good job working on Shawn's back, which is one of the two body parts that Angle could have targeted that made absolute sense. Unfortunately, as much as I love Shawn, he does have a history of not selling back injuries very well, especially when the back work doesn't have to do anything directly with the finish of the match. That for me was flaw #2.

For the most part, I had lots of fun watching Angle on offense here, although the chinlocks and body scissors did get boring. I also liked that one exchange where Michaels slaps Angle in the face, which leads to an Angle clothesline. I wasn't a big fan of the way Angle set up the Angle Slam that turned into an arm drag, since at first, I thought that in that position he should have attacked either the back or the ankle, and second, I thought it was too early in the match to go for a finisher. When they both came back to the ring after the table spot, there was another flaw that really bothered me: Shawn Michaels' heatless comeback sequence. 

Why is it that one of the most over babyfaces on the roster was not getting much of a reaction? Well it's simple: why should he? Shawn didn't bother selling the back like it meant something to him, which would have sufficed. His comeback sequence also looked sluggish and uninspired. All it ultimately led to was a reversal of the SCM into an ankle lock. And that's when the match went into the final gear, although I kinda wasn't buying it as much as I should have. The match honestly turned into something completely different from what it was in the first half by that point. Starbuck described it pretty well as these two not exactly knowing what exactly they wanted to do besides having a Wrestlemania epic. And while the finishing stretch was really fun and I actually liked it a lot, it ultimately made everything before it feel pointless because there was little to no continuity between this half and the prior half. And that's the biggest flaw of all. It actually didn't bother me at all that Michaels took so long to tap because he eventually did, which is good enough for me considering that Shawn was the babyface here.

Based on this review, it seems as if I didn't say that much about what I liked about it. Fact of the matter is that I did like the match a lot. I just think that it wasn't a classic match because neither man (especially Michaels) put in a classic effort. I can't really name a single thing Angle or Michaels did that was truly special, but I can say that I liked a lot of stuff Angle did. But that's just it. I liked it, not loved it. If they had done something more significant in the first half, or better yet, cut off a good portion of the first half of the match, then I would have enjoyed it more. It's an issue that shows up much more in their Vengeance match that I really didn't like the last time I watched it, but that is worth another post.

TL;DR: Good match, but nothing about it was great.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> Opinions are like assholes and all that...


Yeah, a lot of them are full of shit. 



seriously though obviously nobody should be a jerk about somebody else's opinions, but an opinion CAN be wrong, surely. If someone says Droz is the greatest wrestler of all time, they would be wrong, wouldn't they? Opinions, yeah, but, c'mon...there's no way that isn't wrong. Back to what I said yesterday there has to be some thought behind your own opinion having at least a slither or truth to it. You have the opinion for a reason, and it can't be always chalked up to ''like''. That's why your top ten favourite _this_ and top ten greatest _that_ aren't going to perfectly match up. Hart/Austin WM is a better match than Eddie/Big Show from 2004. There's no doubt to me. If someone said Eddie/Big Show was better, would I think they're ''wrong''? I guess I would. I wouldn't be a jerk about it, I wouldn't call them out on it, hell I wouldn't even tell anybody I think it's kinda, maybe, ''wrong'', but at the same time that'd probably run through my head without even consciously thinking about it. It's not me thinking that my opinion or anything relating Hart/Austin > Eddie/Big Show is gospel truth, it's just an opinion I have that I can't help but have. That also doesn't mean I think my opinion is more valuable than the guy who thinks Eddie/Show > Hart/Austin, but if I think it's the other way around then I think it's the other way around. And then, back to a few sentences ago, I actually LIKE Eddie/Big Show more than Hart/Austin. But it isn't better because those are two different things.

It's how any kind of argument (even the civil ones) start. funnyfaces thinks Goldberg sucks and I absolutely think he is wrong. He thinks I'm just as wrong thinking Goldberg is good. He would have to - he thinks Goldberg sucks. Would he outright say I'm wrong? No. Would he disregard anything else I have to say because of that? No. Would he brush it aside because he thinks it's stone cold fact? No. Would he be busting his ass to try to make me change my mind? No. And neither would I** or any human being who doesn't have some big uppity personality. Maybe stuff like that can't be proven factual the way the sky being blue could, but that's the fun part.

I tried to not sound like an ass while writing that. :lmao





** OK just this once - FUNNYFACES YOU ARE WRONG GOLDBERG FOR LIFE

edit - wow he likes Angle/Michaels WRONG AGAIN HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

To be fair, I don't like it that much. It's a three star match. And I will never like Goldberg. Zionism isn't cool. But I guess I can see his appeal. He was a monster with tons of energy in his squashes. I just want more from a wrestler to consider them "good".


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

I just re-watched Undertaker/Lesnar not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. I would give it *** stars nothing more nothing less.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Lol before I got to the bottom of your post I was like "why the fuck did he throw Eddie/Big ShowSD out there for comparison to Austin/Bret? Eddie/Show is all kinds of awesome and I can totally see someone enjoying it more than the Bret/Austin epic". But then I got to the bottom and saw your point. I have this happen all the time. I fully understand Flair/Steamboat Clash of the Champions 2/3 Falls is one of the best matches ever. There really is no denying it. But I enjoy watching Benoit/Finlay JD roughly 10 times more. I don't think it's BETTER, it's not, I just enjoy watching that Judgement Day match more.

I enjoy watching Goldberg, but do I think he's an awesome wrestler? Well, I don't know. He does absolutely fuck all in the ring, but the few things he does do seem so awesome because his presence and innate "charisma" are just off the charts. Most Goldberg matches have that awesome "heavyweight boxing match" feel, that electricity that makes every little thing he does seem amplified. Guys like Goldberg and Hogan don't do Jack shit in the ring because they don't have to do Jack shit. It would seem weird as hell for them to trade holds on the mat or attempt a hurracanrana. That's not them. They get shit done with a few punches and some power moves. Doesn't mean they are "bad" wrestlers or that they suck. Not everyone can be technical wrestlers.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah im not a fan of Angle/HBK mania 21 because I just feel like its all over the place. Still fun though. 

If somebody thinks Droz is the GOAT then that's what they think. Who is anybody else to say they are wrong? Sure, you can discredit their opinion and think its shit but its what they think and they're allowed to think it. When I see something I vehemently disagree with I either lol, troll or ignore it because you're never going to convince that person otherwise, especially if it comes across as blind marking. It's just not worth the time imo. I see people in here hating on matches I love all the time but what's the point in starting that argument? It goes nowhere.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Man what Goldberg have you been watching. He has all kind of crazy power moves and is the master of the ''how the fuck does he know how to do that?'' spot. You know the backflip-like thing in the DDP match? He did shit like that all the time (usu. when his matches went upwards of 4 minutes ); they're usually awesome leg take-downs and stuff. Pretty sure I could get a few examples if I could be bothered looking through my Goldberg write-things.

ediiit:



Starbuck said:


> If somebody thinks Droz is the GOAT then that's what they think. Who is anybody else to say they are wrong? Sure, you can discredit their opinion and think its shit but its what they think and they're allowed to think it. When I see something I vehemently disagree with I either lol, troll or ignore it because you're never going to convince that person otherwise, especially if it comes across as blind marking. It's just not worth the time imo. I see people in here hating on matches I love all the time but what's the point in starting that argument? It goes nowhere.


They're allowed to think that, yeah. But at the same time isn't somebody else allowed to think they're wrong? Again that doesn't mean that person considers themselves or their opinion more valuable or important, but, shit, Droz better than, what, Steve Austin? Like, where? Of course I'd think that's wrong. The same way they'd likely think Austin > Droz is wrong.


I love this fake human I've created who thinks Droz is the undisputed best of all time. :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Goldberg is ok, has a bunch of super fun squash matches and a couple of genuinely great matches.

HBK/Angle WM 21 still rules. Always surprised by how much I still like it after all these years.

Some opinions are DEFINITELY wrong. Opinions yes, but fuck me some are genuinely so bad they can't be anything BUT wrong. Luckily these days I just don't care. I ignore most people with shitty/dumb opinions, and if someone consistently posts crap I just add them to my ignore list and forget they even exist.

Taker/Austin Backlash 02 IS FUCKING GOOD YOU CUNTS :side:.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I ignore most people with shitty/dumb opinions, and if someone consistently posts crap I just add them to my ignore list and forget they even exist.


thanks for negating half of what I said. :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> thanks for negating half of what I said. :lmao :lmao :lmao


You're welcome


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

you know who really doesnt like droz?

ultimate warrior 8*D


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Taker/Austin is meh. :santa


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Lol before I got to the bottom of your post I was like "why the fuck did he throw Eddie/Big ShowSD out there for comparison to Austin/Bret? Eddie/Show is all kinds of awesome and I can totally see someone enjoying it more than the Bret/Austin epic". But then I got to the bottom and saw your point. I have this happen all the time. I fully understand Flair/Steamboat Clash of the Champions 2/3 Falls is one of the best matches ever. There really is no denying it. But I enjoy watching Benoit/Finlay JD roughly 10 times more. I don't think it's BETTER, it's not, I just enjoy watching that Judgement Day match more.
> 
> I enjoy watching Goldberg, but do I think he's an awesome wrestler? Well, I don't know. He does absolutely fuck all in the ring, but the few things he does do seem so awesome because his presence and innate "charisma" are just off the charts. Most Goldberg matches have that awesome "heavyweight boxing match" feel, that electricity that makes every little thing he does seem amplified. Guys like Goldberg and Hogan don't do Jack shit in the ring because they don't have to do Jack shit. It would seem weird as hell for them to trade holds on the mat or attempt a hurracanrana. That's not them. *They get shit done with a few punches and some power moves. * Doesn't mean they are "bad" wrestlers or that they suck. Not everyone can be technical wrestlers.





Yeah1993 said:


> *Man what Goldberg have you been watching. He has all kind of crazy power moves *and is the master of the ''how the fuck does he know how to do that?'' spot. You know the backflip-like thing in the DDP match? He did shit like that all the time (usu. when his matches went upwards of 4 minutes ); they're usually awesome leg take-downs and stuff. Pretty sure I could get a few examples if I could be bothered looking through my Goldberg write-things.
> 
> ediiit:
> 
> ...



Lol obviously we are watching the same Goldberg as I said he gets shit done with punches AND POWER MOVES 

You should just change your username to "Droz Iz GOAT" and get it over with :lmao

Aaaaaaaand, Austin/Taker Backlash sucks. Sorry Cal I love both guys but it's true  ITS DAMN TRUE :kurt


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ric Flair is the greatest professional wrestler ever and Shawn Michaels is the real Mr.WM ( it was cemented sunday :troll) DEAL WITH IT


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> They're allowed to think that, yeah. But at the same time isn't somebody else allowed to think they're wrong? Again that doesn't mean that person considers themselves or their opinion more valuable or important, but, shit, Droz better than, what, Steve Austin? Like, where? Of course I'd think that's wrong. The same way they'd likely think Austin > Droz is wrong.
> 
> I love this fake human I've created who thinks Droz is the undisputed best of all time. :lmao


Of course you can think they're wrong lol. I do it all the time. Hell I don't even think they're wrong I think they're stupid as fuck most times tbh. Even still, people can think whatever the hell they want. Makes it easier for me to laugh at their horrible opinions. 

:vince2


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HE'S GONNA PUKE

Edit: Also, I enjoy Punk/Jericho from Payback because of the "VINTAGE PUNK" spot.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Chismo said:


> I gotta stand in TheGMofGods's defense here, I mean, opinions and all that jazz. For god's sake, I rated Nakamura/Tanahashi from 4/6 five fucking stars, and it kinda sucks to stand alone there, but waddaya gonna do, I watched the match three times already and find it picture perfect, the best match in YEARS. Hell, even BIG DAVE gave it only ****1/2. :side:
> 
> HayleySabin is my last hope. :cena5


I gave it 5 as well.:agree:

Screw what anyone else thinks, it was an awesome match and had me totally invested. Heel Tanahashi was terrific and really made Nakamura, who is supposed to be a heel, into such a sympathetic babyface. They totally manipulated that crowd right from the moment when they were trying to go for a clean break off the ropes and Tanahashi clocked Shinsuke in the knee.

Perhaps I'm a bit biased. I mean, I gave Okada/Ibushi 5 stars, as well as Okada/Goto (I think Meltzer gave each ****3/4). Some may think I rate them too highly, but its more for my own reference of matches I can go back and watch again in 6 months. That kind of rating reminds me to go out of my way to watch it. 

Okada/Ibushi was just great action. Ibushi, due to his size and style, always feels like part of the story he tells is him going the extra mile to prove himself against his opponent. It was a lot more prominent in his match with Nakamura during the 2013 G1 Climax, but there were shades of it here, too. I flat out loved some of the combinations, like Ibushi going for the moonsault off the top rope, Okada moving, Ibushi landing on his feet and transitioning right into another standing moonsault, but Okada anticipating that and getting his knees up. And Okada himself...I can't help but love the guy, he's just so entertaining in the ring. I'm always captivated by him. He commands my attention with whatever he does. That may be why I tend to rate his matches so highly, but they directly appeal to what I want to see in wrestling.

Though I'd have to say at this point, purely by storytelling, excitement and originality, Tanahashi/Nakamura from Invasion Attack is my MOTY. Each guy was playing a role they don't usually play, the acting was amazing (I can forgive the one or two times early on that Nakamura didn't sell the knee after Tanahashi had been working on it), and they built up some legit emotion for the HEEL to overcome the odds, culminating in a really great moment when the final bell rang. It felt so different, yet was a fascinating dynamic.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Does anyone have a link to Danielson vs KENTA Gory by Honor 9/16/06? First Danielson match I ever saw, and I haven't seen it in ages and can't seem to find it anywhere. You can either rep or PM me I don't want to get in trouble here.

I've been watching a ton of DB since WM 30 and I'm just loving him more and more. Watched his Sheamus 2/3 Falls, Cage match on SD with Henry, OTL and MitB with Punk, and SS with Cena between yesterday and today alone. Those are pretty much his greatest hits in WWE from what I've seen.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

So let me get this straight...someone else starts talking about puro. So I chime in on the conversation...and get red rep for it by some troll poster named Londrick. 

What exactly do you people have against talking about wrestling in general? Its like if its not WWE/WCW/ECW, or even RoH, you feel the need to point that it should be talked about elsewhere. I thought this was WRESTLING discussion, since I see all manners of wrestling talked about in here. Is it because its the WWE section? Then why are some non-WWE things permissible, and others aren't?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Maybe because everyones pissed off that you come into the WWE section just to tell us why you hate WWE and why Puro is the only good wrestling in the world

your gimmick is getting old


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

What the hell should I watch tonight guys? Wrestlemania 26, Elimination Chamber 2014, or something old school from the network? I'm leanin towards somethin on the network.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> What the hell should I watch tonight guys? Wrestlemania 26, Elimination Chamber 2014, or something old school from the network? I'm leanin towards somethin on the network.



If you havent seen Shield/Wyatt's from EC 2014, make that first on your list.

Scratch that, bro, have you seen Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival yet? THAT is some must watch shit.

Shield/Wyatt's and Cesaro/Zayn both got ****3/4 from me. Classic, classic shit.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> What the hell should I watch tonight guys? Wrestlemania 26, Elimination Chamber 2014, or something old school from the network? I'm leanin towards somethin on the network.


Fully Loaded 2000.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I really enjoyed Okada/Ibushi, although I kinda felt like the first half and the second half of the match didn't really "match", if you know what I mean. Not a big fault when the overall match itself was great. The pace went from being slow and methodical to going at breakneck speed immediately after Ibushi's lariat counter. That finishing stretch was really fun, but that immediate switch in pacing for me felt a bit unnatural. Still, a small flaw in an otherwise great match. May or may not make my top 20 worldwide, but that's because 2014 is stacked. Also happy to see that Ibushi didn't act like a dumbass, which is why I sour over a lot of his stuff. By golly, I'll never forget his really shitty performance against Suzuki last year. If you're going to sell a leg injury, don't go around doing crazy backflips and shit. Even UC would know better. Or maybe he wouldn't.

Soon enough, others will understand the greatness of Punk/Jericho at Payback unk :jericho


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> What the hell should I watch tonight guys? Wrestlemania 26, Elimination Chamber 2014, or something old school from the network? I'm leanin towards somethin on the network.


I'm watching Summerslam 2000 right now, this show is a boatload of fun, review will be posted shortly.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> If you havent seen Shield/Wyatt's from EC 2014, make that first on your list.
> 
> Scratch that, bro, have you seen Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival yet? THAT is some must watch shit.
> 
> Shield/Wyatt's and Cesaro/Zayn both got ****3/4 from me. Classic, classic shit.


I haven't seen either of them yet. haha. 



SMITTY said:


> I'm watching Summerslam 2000 right now, this show is a boatload of fun, review will be posted shortly.


That doesn't help me at all! 

Guess I'll go with EC 2014 first. I honestly have no idea what's on the card other than the Chamber match, Batista/Del Rio, and Shield/Wyatts. Swagger/Langston maybe? Guess we'll see!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

It was a suggestion :side: 

But if you havent seen EC 2014 watch that


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

EC is a good show. Shield/Wyatts and the Chamber are fantastic, and Swagger/Langston is very solid. Batista/Rio I don't remember. Maybe I pee'd during that match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I haven't seen either of them yet. haha.
> 
> 
> That doesn't help me at all!
> ...



Dude EC was a pretty great show I'd definitely check it out. Shield/Wyatt's is up there for best 6-man tags ever, Swagge/Langston is actually pretty good, and the Chamber match itself rocks. Fun card.

BUT. And this is a big BUT. You absolutely must go to NXT on the Network and watch Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival ASAP. Must do it, I'm telling you. Such a beautiful match, it's def my 2014 match of the year so far, and it highly doubt it's getting topped.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Swagger vs. Big E was awesome! And I don't even like Big E that much! 

Don't worry, I'll watch Arrival soon as well.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So I finally got it done. Shield vs Wyatts III is off the checklist. It was very good and it's nice to see The Shield get a return win. Didn't enjoy this as much as the EC match. It took a more traditional tag route which was good but I enjoyed the pure chaos of EC more. Ambrose is a pretty good FIP but that's already been pointed out.

This year looks to be great. I think I could name at least twenty ★★★½+ matches and we're only into one third of the year. Just way too much to keep up with so I tend to stick with the most pimped matches. Cesaro/Zayn is MOTY followed by Wyatt/Shield part 1 and then I think I'd put the WM triple threat at number 3. Or I might redo the order if I rewatched every one of those.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Summerslam 2000 review 

TLC!

Match #1: Rikishi & 2 Cool Vs Right to Censor
*
:mark: for 2 cool,  for RTC, I feel like I am the only person who thinks these guys were really bad, they just did nothing for me in the ring and none of them had any charisma whatsoever. Their gimmick could have been good if it was with more charismatic people but alas it was a failure in my eyes. This show is in Raleigh, random place to have the second biggest show of the year. RTC cuts a promo, they get mad heat because no one wants to hear them talk, RIKISHI comes out and gets a huge pop :mark:. is…actually awesome? Yeah that was a load of fun and If it went another 5 minutes it would be borderline great, RTC didn’t do much though, which I guess is what made the match great because 2 COOL is GOAT in 2000, just some fun fast paced action. Only things wrong with it is the lack of time given and the fact that RTC won. ***3/4 

CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #2: Road Dogg vs X-Pac* 

Meh, never thought much for both of these guys, but Pac has been pretty good this year with his 2 good matches with Y2J. Never been a huge fan of Road Dogg at all but maybe this match will be good. X-pac oversells a kick to the back hilariously, he flies halfway across the ring and dives outside of it :lmao. This was really short, which is good, not a great match, but it was fine, if it was given any more time than this it would have been overkill. Last few moments were a lot better, but it was no wrestling classic. X-Pac wins, crowd doesn’t give a shit. He tries to make up with Road Dogg after the match but Road Dogg just kicks his ass. ***

CAL SCALE: 0.5 


Match #3: Val Venis & Trish Stratus Vs Eddie Guerrero & Chyna*

Meh this looks like it is going to either suck or be really awesome, TRISH IS HERE THO :mark:. Apparently this is for the IC title, should have just been a singles match tbh with the women as managers who get in a CAT FIGHT during the match, but I guess I will settle for a tag match. Match was pretty good, nothing legendary but I’d put it equal to the opener in terms of best match of the night through three matches so far. Trish does basically nothing in the match but Chyna gets the win and becomes the new IC champion. Just a fun match and Trish is still smoking hot, looks like some things never change. ***1/2 

CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #4: Jerry Lawler vs Tazz *

This should be a fun short match, Tazz and the king I guess were rivals in 2000, or maybe he was rivals with JR AND King. Hoping for a :mark: level brawl with some classic King in this match. :lmao at Tazz’s outfit, looks like a fucking idiot with that hat he has on. Tazz is actually a great heel in this match, acts like a complete piece of shit. Lots of AWESOME punches in this match, just a very STIFF match. Jerry can still hit a piledriver too. JR comes into the ring and hits Tazz with a JAR and the crowd goes NUTS :mark:, great ending, crowd loves it, I love it, classic attitude era right there. **

*CAL SCALE: 0.5 

Match #5: Steve Blackman vs Shane McMahon *

HARDCORE TITLE :mark:, :mark: for Shane and Blackman too, this match is gonna be fucking awesome. Blackman should have gotten a big push at some point, hes got the look, and hes awesome in the ring, so why not? Match… I loved it, just a ton of fun, it gets REALLY violent at some points which makes the match really awesome. Story is awesome as Shane cant do anything by himself so he needs like 3 other people to help him win the match. Shane tries to escape Blackman by climbing the staging, which is super fucking high, and Blackman follows him and knocks him off :|. Ending to this match was fucking insane, MOTN for sure at this point, just incredible. ****

CAL SCALE: 2 

Match #6: Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit (2/3 falls match)* ‘

I love basically all the matches these guys had over the course of 2000 and 2001 and hopefully this continues the trend. This match was awesome, probably my second favorite match in the Benoit/Jericho series behind the ladder match which is just amazing. I thought the 2/3 falls stipulation added to the match a good bit as even though the first fall started really early the match just never dragged and I dont get how some people think the match is garbage because I really enjoyed this, then again I love all of the Benoit/Jericho matches, at least the ones I have seen. Match was just a ton of fun and I think some people underrate it, thought this was really fun. ***** 

CAL SCALE: 5 

Match #7: TLC I *

I love this match, I have seen it so many times and it is just so fun for me to watch. This is the second best TLC match ever for me outside of TLC III on SD shortly after WM 17. Best part of this match is how novel everything is. This defined TLC matches for years to come and although the WM 16 ladder match was the idea behind TLC, nothing tops this for ladder matches in 2000, just some of the grittiest, awesome spot filled fun I have ever seen. This was just spot after spot after spot, it was some of the greatest stuff I have ever seen in wrestling. Still, this was often imitated, but what made this match special is the fact that the match felt so NEW, it was a great and novel match, one of the best ladder matches ever. *****1/2 

CAL SCALE: 7 

Match #8: The Kat vs Terri 

NO 

CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #9: Kane vs The Undertaker *

Hmm I didn’t even know this match was on this show, these guys split up so many times it got hard to keep track of, they were back together by mania 17. This is an awesome brawl early on, match is just a FIGHT and JR said it right, these guys would have this exact same match if they were fighting at a bar. Match is a ton of fun, Kane gets unmasked at the end, and Undertaker wins. This was just an awesome brawl, I love this show so fucking much, and we still have the main event to go! ***1/2 

CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #10: Kurt Angle vs Triple H vs The Rock* 

Storyline for this match looks pretty good, Stephanie keeps flirting with Kurt and Kurt definitely wants the V. God Steph was fucking HOT in 2000, best year for her looks wise. Thing is Rock is the champ yet Angle and HHH are the main focus of the feud :lol. Match is alright, Rock not coming out until like 5 minutes after the match starts is stupid, and this needed more ANGLE after he gets taken out, we have already seen Rock/HHH multiple times on the big stage, Angle is someone new. Ending is pretty fun but there was for sure some dull points in the middle of the match when it was just Rock and HHH. Thought it dragged a but too, but it wasn’t BAD, just disappointing. ****

CAL SCALE: 2 

FINAL CAL SCALE: 19 

Current 2000 PPV rankings 

1: Judgment day (20)
2: Summerslam (19) 
3: The Royal Rumble (17)
4: Unforgiven (15.5)
5: No mercy (14) 
6: WrestleMania 2000(13)
7: King of the ring (11) 
8: Rebellion (9) 
9: Insurrextion (8.5)
10: Survivor Series (7) *
​


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

yeah, Rock/Cena I needs love. Match is very good. Second match :lmao

I watched the Summerslam 2000 main event, and I still enjoy it. The fuckery at the end is so telegraphed, and that hurts it a bit, but everything before it is fun for me.

Was thinking about Summerslam main events, and that show just has so many great matches, it's unreal. I'm just talking main events. Thinking of spamming the next 5-7 SS main events - Austin/Angle, Brock/Rock, maybe the Chamber match at 2003, even though I've seen it a bunch (still like it), Orton/Benoit, Hogan/Michaels, Edge/Cena, Orton/Cena (this may been bad, don't remember), Edge/Taker. Might stop there.

EDIT: Austin/Angle didn't main event. Still watching it now, though. Might watch Rock/Booker.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Rock/Booker is so bad :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rock/Booker is everything wrong with wrestling that isn't Goldberg or Konnan. Orton/Cena is good, but the ending is very disappointing. But it's a John Cena match. You kinda have to take that.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I remember watching Rock/Booker a long, long time ago and giving it ****1/4 (I stopped using star ratings four years ago so yeah, it was a while back). I have no idea what I'd think of it now and remember nothing of it, is it sloppy or botchy or no-selly or just boring or what?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rusty Rock and Boring Booker just performed some moves and restholds with no purpose, fought in the crowd, and then Booker T and Rock trade their big moves and Rock wins with a flash Rock Bottom. May also be JR's worst announcing performance too. Nothing that Rock or Booker T did was interesting. Nothing flowed; it was just a move, then a resthold, then some punches. It was clear that the only purpose for this match was to make WCW look terrible in context to the Invasion feud and hand the title back to Rock. You should just go watch some more Tatsumi Fujinami or JERRY BLACKWELL instead.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Don't think I've seen Booker/Rock since it happened. All I remember from that feud is THOMAS JEFFERSON SUCKA!


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

RapidFiyah said:


> Just watched Punk vs Lesnar at Summerslam. ****1/2 intense match and Paul Heyman was brilliant. Could of used a blade job in the match tho  but the match itself was awesome. Great pacing, both men had good amount of offence, the crowd was into it not a dull moment. Great match. Top 3 of 2013.


Same, rewatched it today, as well. Upon rewatching every memorable match from 2013, I've come to the conclusion that Punk/Brock was the best match of the year. Fantastic stuff throughout, really. Punk/Taker at Number 2, followed by Punk/Cena, Bryan/Cena, and Ziggler/ADR @ Payback, in that order.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Austin/Angle is still amazing, and most certainly Kurt's best babyface performance in the company, and could be his best overall depending on your opinion of the Taker matches in 2006. I got 10 minutes into Booker/Rock and turned it off. :lmao


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

MITB 2011 >>>>>>> MITB 2013 > MITB 2010 > MITB 2012, IMO, as far was MITB PPVs go. 

MITB should definitely deliver, this year, as every MITB show so far has been at least decent. There will be only one ladder match though, which kind of sucks, b/c I've usually found the SD Ladder Matches to be better than the Raw ones, and the WWEWHC Ladder Match will be more or less like a Raw MITB Ladder Match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

RapidFiyah said:


> Can't believe Austin tapped out in that match.
> 
> Anyone know where I can find old NWA matches from 1987-1991?



Austin didn't tap at Summerslam, that match was the one where he beats up a bunch of refs causing Nick Patrick to come out and disqualify him, allowing him to keep the strap. He doesn't drop the title to Angle until Unforgiven, where he does tap out.

Personally, I don't see a problem with Austin tapping. He was a heel, so it really doesn't hurt him, and you can make an honest case that Angles "Ankle Lock" is right up there with Bret's Sharpshooter and Benoits Crossface as the most "over" submission hold in the history of the WWE. Shit, I think Taker even tapped to the Ankle lock, as did HBK. Brock tapped to it on more than one occasion.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

No Way Out 2005 is quite underrated, Angle/Cena is four stars good, ME delivered, opener (Eddie & Rey vs Basham Brothers) was fun and Luther Reigns really stepped up his game against Taker in a bout which I felt was pretty decent.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Even bloody Hogan tapped to the ankle lock.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> No Way Out 2005 is quite underrated, Angle/Cena is four stars good, ME delivered, opener (Eddie & Rey vs Basham Brothers) was fun and Luther Reigns really stepped up his game against Taker in a bout which I felt was pretty decent.


One of the worst PPVs WWF/WWE produced. One match show, and it's a struggle to get to that one match. (Show/JBL)

Took me three days to finish it. Just..._*I shivered thinking about it atm*_ The scary thing is, really not an ounce of hyperbole here. Panned this junk in that "Worst WWF/WWE PPV" thread a few months ago. w/great interest.

-----------

Angle also made Kane tap out for the first time too. In regards to that subject.

Rock vs Booker is bad. I like Booker a lot, but nah. That match is just...no good. Not in any area. Shame as I love the rest of the PPV to pieces. (yeah, Cal, THE REST OF IT. Specific match point here)

MITB 2011 super high praise is something I'll never understand. Well, kind of. Half the show is fabulous. _(Punk/Cena, SD MITB, Henry/Show)_ Then the other half lies right next to it; crap.

oh, and to zing one more match. :ti @ Jericho vs Benoit 2/3 falls.

K, that's productive enough.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Pretty much, the Punk/Cena match is what makes the show stand out. The Punk/Cena match itself is definitely good, but what helps make it a five star match, in my opinion, is the atmosphere. The magical atmosphere accomponies a great match to produce a highly memorable evening. The fact that there were some other good matches at the PPV certainly helps.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Okay, TAJIRI lovers, here's another gem from his indie fed, and it's against the one and only TAKA MICHINOKU, so yeah, yeah should definitely check this one. It's a really fun match:






funnyfaces1 said:


> I didn't really like how Shawn Michaels kept outwrestling Kurt freakin' Angle without much struggle.


Isn't that almost every Kurt Angle match ever, though? When you think about it, Kurt's gotta be one of the worst booked characters in history of pro-wrestling. I mean, c'mon, here he is, an accomplished amateur wrestler, for whom we KNOW is a tough mat motherfucker, very strong in ground-based wrestling who should know at least 50 different ways to break your key bones and disable you just like that. AND YET EVERY FOOL, JOBBER AND HIGH-FLYER FROM MIDCARD GOES TOE-TO-TOE WITH HIM AND ALMOST BEATS HIM IN CHAIN WRESTLING! 
:floyd2




Yeah1993 said:


> I love this fake human I've created who thinks Droz is the undisputed best of all time. :lmao


:lmao




funnyfaces1 said:


> Soon enough, others will understand the greatness of Punk/Jericho at Payback unk :jericho


Well, :meltzer adores it, so there you go.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jesus christ now Tajiri vs Taka.

Dead.


----------



## Toates Dapperfox (Feb 4, 2014)

I was actually thinking about MITB 2011 earlier today and wondering how folks here felt about the card outside of the Cena/Punk classic. I think it was because I was defending Punk to a casual fan friend of mine and brought up Cena/Punk. Weird that it came up here without me even having to ask. Though more opinions and even star ratings for the matches that weren't Cena/Punk would be something I'd be interested in seeing.

I feel like the lack of a "Smackdown" or WHC MITB match this year is going to be a serious loss for MITB 2014. Like the previous WHC matches have generally been a great chance for all our favorite midcard workhorses to show their stuff and I'm not sure that will be the case this year. MITB2014 could be a huge disappointment if we aren't careful to keep out expectations low.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Sneaky me, Hardy/Triple H NM 2008 or Bryan/Triple H WM30?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*@Hayley*, you thought Orton/Christian MITB was crap? Jesus. I can understand why some wouldn't buy the Raw MITB or the Divas match (which I thought was shockingly not horrible), but Orton/Christian was wrestling wise just as good as their previous bouts (well, except OTL) and had one of the most well booked chickenshit heel finishes ever. I'd thought you wouldn't shit on that


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't like any of the matches from that series. Drop in the bucket for me, tbhayley. Just a bunch of stuff and nonsense.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I disagree, but whatever you say is your opinion. But you dislike even Over The Limit?


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Sneaky me, Hardy/Triple H NM 2008 or Bryan/Triple H WM30?


WM30. ****1/4 vs. ***3/4, so it's close. Admittedly, Jeff's very presence in a match has the ability to annoy me, so take that into account I guess.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Chismo said:


> Isn't that almost every Kurt Angle match ever, though? When you think about it, Kurt's gotta be one of the worst booked characters in history of pro-wrestling. I mean, c'mon, here he is, an accomplished amateur wrestler, for whom we KNOW is a tough mat motherfucker, very strong in ground-based wrestling who should know at least 50 different ways to break your key bones and disable you just like that. AND YET EVERY FOOL, JOBBER AND HIGH-FLYER FROM MIDCARD GOES TOE-TO-TOE WITH HIM AND ALMOST BEATS HIM IN CHAIN WRESTLING!
> :floyd2


Or some of the most "ingenious" booking Vince has done to elevate his wrestlers as superstar athletes and how the Olympics are beneath them. It's not as if Kurt wasn't pushed or looked on fondly by those in the business purely because of his legitimate accomplishments flowing over onto the medium, as a whole. It certainly isn't because of his pro-wres talents.

Same goes for Lesnar's return.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Rah said:


> Or some of the most ingenious booking Vince has done to elevate his wrestlers as superstar athletes and how the Olympics are beneath them. It's not as if Kurt wasn't pushed or looked on fondly by those in the business purely because of his legitimate accomplishments flowing over onto the medium, as a whole. It certainly isn't because of his pro-wres talents.


I'd say it's ingenious booking if the viewer comes away thinking, "Wow, that guy just managed to hang with Angle in a mat wrestling competition!" and not, "Wait, how did that guy manage to out-wrestle Angle?". Either way, I'd say they more often come away not thinking. Angle matches tend to do that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Rock vs Booker is bad. I like Booker a lot, but nah. That match is just...no good. Not in any area. Shame as I love the rest of the PPV to pieces. *(yeah, Cal, THE REST OF IT. Specific match point here)*


YOU FUCKING TAKE THAT BACK DAMMIT.

Gonna continue with NWO 04 today. Managed to sit through Chavo/Rey last night... then it got to Cena/Show/Angle and I had to stop again :lmao.

Got WM 29 Bluray today. Only took ONE FULL WEEK to come. Fucking fremantle. WE WANT SILVERVISION *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> YOU FUCKING TAKE THAT BACK DAMMIT.
> 
> Gonna continue with NWO 04 today. Managed to sit through Chavo/Rey last night... then it got to Cena/Show/Angle and I had to stop again :lmao.
> 
> Got WM 29 Bluray today. Only took ONE FULL WEEK to come. Fucking fremantle. WE WANT SILVERVISION *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP*


Wait, you bought something from FM? 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I need WM for my collection of owning them all. Same with RR's. And I ain't getting it any cheaper anywhere else without buying second hand. Plus it was on "offer" aka Silvervision normal prices and I don't fully mind paying SV prices for stuff.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Since there were HHH/Bryan comparisions with other matches, now I'll throw another (and a closer) one: HHH/Bryan or HBK/Jericho WM 19?


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

*Austin/Angle Summerslam '01*

Holy fuck this is great. This is the first time I have sat down and really watched this match and analyzed it. Gotta say, at first, I thought it was on the verge of going on my most overrated list. The thing is, it's not that great to start out. But oh my lord does it pick up once Angle gets some color on the outside from eating the ring post. Everything from there is just perfect. 

Austin just being a mean mother f'er, just brutalizing Angle with the ring post, then hitting him with some of the stiffest right hands I've seen. The suplexes on the floor, which you could tell really wracked Austin's body in pain. The ankle lock submission on the outside with the now iconic camera shot of Kurt's bloody face. The near falls were amazing, not to mention that MOONSAULT! The best one Kurt ever pulled off IMO.

I know nowadays Angle gets a lot of grief, because in retrospect, he had a certain formula in his matches that people tend to shit on. But there is no denying this is a freaking classic. Even the overbooking with Austin attacking the referees made complete sense, when in most other matches it would really hurt the overall rating. Stone Cold knew he couldn't beat Angle on that night, so he did literally ANYTHING to leave with the belt. About as close as you can come to 5 snowflakes, but I can't give a match ending with a DQ finish the full 5.

****3/4


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I loved Jericho/HBK back in the day, I watched it again recently, thought it was a lil draggy and tedious but otherwise, still a masterful bout. Bryan/HHH is better, by a slight margin.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd have to watch both back to back, but honestly I'd likely end up swapping ratings for HBK/Jericho and Bryan/HHH, making them **** and ****14 respectively. Maybe even worse for HBK/Jericho. It went down from ****3/4 on my watch last year for my WM rambles, and honestly I think it would drop more the next time I watch it. So I'll just avoid watching it for a while .

As for Angle/Austin, I fucking love that match. Went the full ***** on last watch. DQ finish ADDED to the match imo. Not often a finish like that adds to the overall match but in this case it absolutely did.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, I agree. Tbh, we should more of these match vs. match comparisions. It would be kinda like Flickchart


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Austin/Angle and HBK/Mankind are two matches i couldn't really give a shit about the DQ finish.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Started MITB 11 last night, and only got through the opener since I was super tired by then, but that match was very solid. Sheamus always delivers in those matches for sure (even though he killed Sin Cara). Even Slater and Gabriel pulled their own in that match. Got to go in to work for a bit, and watch the rest of that show today. 

Might go back to the Summerslam main events. Rock/Brock is next on my list :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HHH just watch the whole SS 2002 show, one of the best ppv's ever. Actually, its #2 all time for me(at least in WWF/E) for best ppv ever, only WM 19 is better and I'm not 100% sure on that yet. 

Watching NWO 2000 right now, have actually never seen the HIAC match! Oh and after this I only have two shows left, BACKLASH AND FULLY LOADED :mark:. I'm gonna need some help deciding which one to watch last since their both GOAT shows :hmm:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I have been in a WWE network haze for 2 months. Happy to be back. Missed some of you fuckers.  

So a lot has happened since I've been on the board. That little guy who would never be champion is champion and that streak that would never end ended. Spoiler alert. Sorry folks.  



Razor King said:


> The only matches I'm aware of that have been all-time classics since Hunter/'Taker III at 'Mania would be Bork/Cena and Punk/Cena.


unk3 :bryan3 at Over the Limit was a classic I think. Match gets better every time I watch it. Just my opinion. 



The Hitman said:


> Another House Show upload;
> 
> *Steve Austin & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Triple H (Handheld House Show) (28.01.2001) (Philadelphia)*
> 
> ...


Badass. I will give a watch! 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> For anyone that's a fan of WRESTLING, and wants to see one of the most bad ass matches that there has ever been, check out this beauty:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I remember this. Good shit. 



#BadNewsSanta said:


> Bryan/HHH was awesome, but nowhere near a 5 star match IMO. I struggle to understand the ****1/2 ratings too, but the full 5 is pretty crazy for that match.
> 
> Then again, I have Taker/Punk from WM29 higher than anyone, so maybe I shouldn't talk.


I like Taker/Punk more than most as well. Great match. 



SMITTY said:


> I'm just curious, why would anyone buy ppv DVD's at this point if they live in the US? Seems like a huge waste of money with the network? I can see buying sets that contain TV stuff but if you can get all the PPV's on the network why buy them on DVD?


Some people are just tangible I suppose. It's like having vinyl or CDs. It's nice to have I guess. I have not sold too many DVDs since the network. Maybe like 10. I'm going to keep a lot of mine and totally bought the Warrior set the day it came out. 




ATF said:


> In all seriousness, I can totally dig everyone having a different opinion (though I'll never be friends with someone who dislikes Savage/Warrior so watch the fuck out :side


I'm biased but Warrior/Savage at WM7 is one of my favorite matches ever. I probably can't name 5 I like more all time. Pro wrestling greatness I think. Never gets old for me. Also being a little 10 year old mark watching it live and seeing a cage match at a house show a few weeks early I have rarely been more jacked for a match. Wish in the Warrior set that he did commentary for this match. 





Odafin Tutuola said:


> Austin/Angle is still amazing, and most certainly Kurt's best babyface performance in the company, and could be his best overall depending on your opinion of the Taker matches in 2006. I got 10 minutes into Booker/Rock and turned it off. :lmao


Summerslam 2001 vs Austin and No Way Out 2006 have to be my two favorite Angle matches ever. 



The Hitman said:


> Austin/Angle and HBK/Mankind are two matches i couldn't really give a shit about the DQ finish.


Seriously. Those matches are so good I don't even think about the DQ finishes. I like that Mankind didn't get pinned. Kept him looking strong in his feud with Taker.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yea I second that. Austin/Angle, Mankind/HBK, and Eddie/JBL are all matches where the DQ finish didn't hurt the match at all and actually made sense. With Eddie/JBL, Eddie was freaking bleeding to death and JBL brought the title in the ring to try and end him. But Eddie couldn't be outsmarted, he sensed his demise was near so he grabbed the title and clocked JBL with it to allow him to leave with the belt. Lying, cheating, and stealing to get ahead, perfect for his character.

HBK/Mankind was Bearer seeing Mankind was about to lose to HBK so instead of suffering an embarrassing defeat, he sent for his monster Vader to come out and force a DQ, keeping Mankind from suffering the indignity of a clean loss.

And yes, Punk/Bryan OTL absolutely qualifies as a classic. No doubt. As is Punk/Lesnar SS.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Eddie G vs :jbl was brutal and wonderful


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Toates Dapperfox said:


> I was actually thinking about MITB 2011 earlier today and wondering how folks here felt about the card outside of the Cena/Punk classic. I think it was because I was defending Punk to a casual fan friend of mine and brought up Cena/Punk. Weird that it came up here without me even having to ask. Though more opinions and even star ratings for the matches that weren't Cena/Punk would be something I'd be interested in seeing.


http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wwe/money-in-the-bank-3911-11241.html

Like I said in another thread, I find myself more often than not disagreeing with Meltzer's ratings. But I felt that this one was very interesting. The opening match got the second best rating with 4 stars and is one of the best ratings he's given for any money in the bank match, the only matches that got poor ratings were Bella/Kelly and Henry/Show and even then I felt like the divas match wasn't as shitty as I felt it would be and Henry/Show I felt was actually a decent match. He gave ***3/4 to both the second MITB match and Christian/Orton, and of course ends it with the five star rating for the memorable Punk/Cena match. 

In terms of consistency, I think this was the best rated PPV that Meltzer's ever done for a WWE PPV. The only one I can think of that has at least six matches is the Summerslam PPV in 2002, and even then only one match on the card got at least a 4 star rating or better. And it can be argued that MITB 2011 had a better opener and a better main event. And for the most part MITB 2011 has received critical acclaim from not just fans and journalists but from the WWE as well. Right now MITB 2011 is listed as their second greatest PPV of all time behind Wrestlemania 17. That's some pretty damn good praise. 

To me, MITB 2011 is one of WWE's best PPV's to this day, definitely a top 5 all time. I can see an argument being made for the number 2 spot as well. It had a great and lengthy opening bout, with some great action in the middle of the card and great matches to keep you entertained through out the event, and then it closed out in the best way possible with one of the best matches we've seen in recent memory. And the atmosphere was just insane. I personally loved the PPV and was one of the greatest nights of my life for me as a wrestling fan, especially given that Daniel Bryan won the Money in the Bank, and both Christian and Cm Punk became World Champions that night too. It had great storylines going into it, a lot of epic moments (Daniel Bryan's shocking win, Evan Bourne's SSP off the top of a ladder, Orton's reaction to Christian being declared the new WHC, Cm Punk standing tall among the Chicago crowd as the new WWE champion as Vince McMahon looked on) and a lot of great matches from the beginning until the end. It's just a PPV that always has at least something to it that you'll enjoy.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Just watched Austin/Angle for the first time in a while, I think this is my fifth time seeing the match but against it's been a while. I have to say, the flow of the match is nearly perfect. The way the spots are set up, the storytelling, the pace is extremely appropriate given the damage done to Angle, the ruthlessness, they did a excellent job and a lot of credit needs to go to Angle for his outstanding job in regards to his selling. 

However, the first half of the match is a mess imo. I don't think it was anything bad, but Austin starting out by working on the leg and then suddenly never working on it again, Austin's continuous barrage of snap suplex's, and Angle's excessive use of German Suplex's really took away from the match for me. Again, the beginning wasn't anything bad, but it's definitely no where near a five star match for me. 

However, again, the second half was incredible just due to the realism, the way Angle fought off Austin, doing a belly to belly and back suplex on the outside to do more damage to Austin and just give himself a fighting chance, the Ankle lock on Austin as he got over the barricade (and his timing with that was very appropriate as it was the only time Angle was finally able to at least get to his feet before Austin could get back to him), it was just brilliant, really really smart from both of them. It's the kind of realism that made guys like Ric Flair so damn good in the ring. 

****1/4. I want to give it higher because the last fifteen or so minutes are just so damn good, but again, there's just so many other things that take away from the match for me that I simply can't stand.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> HHH just watch the whole SS 2002 show, one of the best ppv's ever. Actually, its #2 all time for me(at least in WWF/E) for best ppv ever, only WM 19 is better and I'm not 100% sure on that yet.
> 
> Watching NWO 2000 right now, have actually never seen the HIAC match! Oh and after this I only have two shows left, BACKLASH AND FULLY LOADED :mark:. I'm gonna need some help deciding which one to watch last since their both GOAT shows :hmm:


I've seen most of SS 02, so I won't watch the whole show this time. Maybe closer to summer I might. Rock/Brock is cool for because I really enjoy seeing an up and comer beat a veteran clean in a "big" match. I'm just a sucker for that kind of thing.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Brock didn't beat Rock cleanly :heyman3

Call me crazy, but I actually think Mysterio/Angle was the best match of that incredible show.

Don't call me crazy. RAW MITB at MITB 2011 is super underrated. DAT MIZ!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Mysterio/Angle is just amazing, really fun match, dont think its as good as Rock/Brock or HBK/HHH though, to think when you add in RVD/Benoit that show has 4 ****+ matches :mark:


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I'm almost done with KOTR 1993. Bret Hart is just killing it. 

Summerslam 2002 will always be a show that I love. I want to say it was the first PPV that I watched after WCW went out of business.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TheGMofGods said:


> Just watched Austin/Angle for the first time in a while, I think this is my fifth time seeing the match but against it's been a while. I have to say, the flow of the match is nearly perfect. The way the spots are set up, the storytelling, the pace is extremely appropriate given the damage done to Angle, the ruthlessness, they did a excellent job and a lot of credit needs to go to Angle for his outstanding job in regards to his selling.
> 
> However, the first half of the match is a mess imo. I don't think it was anything bad, but Austin starting out by working on the leg and then suddenly never working on it again, Austin's continuous barrage of snap suplex's, and Angle's excessive use of German Suplex's really took away from the match for me. Again, the beginning wasn't anything bad, but it's definitely no where near a five star match for me.
> 
> ...


Whenever I read reviews like this, I thank the high heavens that I'm not the poster. Nit picking Austin/Angle SS and saying "the first half is a mess"?! Get out of here, that match is as perfect as it gets, one of the 5 best in WWE history. I think you and a lot of other people just get joy out of over analyzing things and nit picking. You can take any match, even Flair/Steamboat, and nit pick it to death if you want. People switch up the focus of their attack in MMA and boxing all the time, but when Austin transitions from working the leg to just mauling Angle on the outside, you call it "a mess". Austin in kayfabe probably went in with the plan to work a leg to slow Angle down, but when he saw the opportunity to go for the kill on the outside, he seized it. Nothing wrong at all with that.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Brock didn't beat Rock cleanly :heyman3
> 
> Call me crazy, but I actually think Mysterio/Angle was the best match of that incredible show.
> 
> Don't call me crazy. RAW MITB at MITB 2011 is super underrated. DAT MIZ!


You're crazy, that Raw MitB match is no fun. No fun at all.

But then again, I've always said Angle/Rey is the MotN for SS02', so maybe you aren't all that crazy 

Just watches Angle/Taker NWO 2006 for the first time in a while. I finally saw the Smackdown match they had in 2006 a few days ago, loved it, so I decided to come check out the precursor to it. Man oh man is it ever awesome. Angle is just a fiend, going after Takers leg with the same tenacity that my boxer pup goes after his bone. He was just relentless, and Takers masterful selling really put over just how dangerous Kurt Angle is when he senses weakness in his opponent. The first 20 minutes are just an all out onslaught by Angle on Takers left leg, with the Deadman fighting every single step of the way to keep this vicious carnivore at bay. Finally, in the last 10 minutes, we see some of the most amazing counters by Angle. Every single time the Deadman goes for one of his finishers, Angle manages to squirm away and put that Ankle lock right back on the Deadman. Chokeslams, Last Rides, Tombstones, all countered by Angle into an Ankle lock. I loved this, it made perfect sense for him to keep after the leg and it showed that Angle would just not be denied. Finally, Angle hits an Angle Slam but he makes a small mistake, and it almosts costs him everything. After the Angle slam, Angle makes the mistake of bending down too close to the Deadman when going for the Ankle Lock. Taker seizes this opportunity, and locks in a desperation triangle choke. Angle begins to fade, but with a last bit of desperation, he rolls over the Deadman, pinning Takers shoulders to the mat while he simultaneously succumbs to Takers choke. Angle gets the 3 count, but he's unconscious. Perfectly setting up the rematch on Smackdown.

It really doesn't get too much better than this, folks. ****3/4


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Do opinions not exist anymore :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Finally up to Lesnar/Eddie NWO 04 :mark:. The match I originally wanted to see when I decided on this event as my next Ramble . Got through everything else so FINALLY I can watch the one match I WANTED to watch .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SS 2002 MOTN goes like this imo: Brock/Rock > Benoit/RVD > Angle/Rey > HBK/HHH

Epic show and the greatest PPV ever imo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Chris/Wolverine, how is HE crazy? That Raw MITB IS Goddamn fun Goddammit, why wouldn't it be?!










I understand not liking it, but not thinking it's at least fun is rather odd :side:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> Do opinions not exist anymore :side:


Naw, not when people drive TheGMfoGods out of this thread.

About to review Punk/Hardy from Night of Champions 2009. I remember liking it, but I don't remember why (besides who is in it). Maybe we will get another incredible Punk character exposition like in their Bash 2009 match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I was serious 

Too many people in this thread believe that their opinion is the universal truth, if Gmofgods only thinks that Angle/Austin is ****1/4, whats wrong with that?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*No Way Out 2004*

Sable and Torrie fap this PPV off. I mean START this PPV fap. Uhhh I mean... FAP FAP FAP.

Cole and Tazz just talk about how often they jerked to the Sable/Torrie Playboy mag.


*The Basham Brothers & Shaniqua Vs Rikishi & Scotty 2 Hotty - WWE Tag Team Championship Handicap Match*

Bashams suck. The shemale sucks. Scotty & Rikishi as a tag team in 2004 don't do it for me. I'll take the advice of... whoever gave me the advice, and I'm skipping every Basham Brothers match on 2004 PPV .

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Jamie Noble Vs Nidia - Jamie Noble Must Wrestle Blindfolded*

Oh man, I remember all this feud like it was yesterday. So much fun. 

Noble gets the blindfold on, Nidia slaps him and he loses his shit, almost getting DQ'd for taking the blindfold off :lmao.

Match is worked so damn well. Nidia moves around outside the ring then sneaks in to attack. She jumps up and down to make loud noises then sneak around somewhere else and kick him in the BUTT. She's just embarrassing him for all the shit he's put her through. Awesome. Jake would be proud .

:lmao at Nidia doing the old "going behind someone and fake humping them" schtick. Noble is going crazy. I'm loving every second of it.

Nidia practically dominates the whole thing, occasionally getting caught but always escaping. Then when Nidia climbs the ropes and the ref watches her, he sneaks a peak, throws her off the ropes and locks in a submission for the win.

Extremely fun and very well worked match. Didn't have the crowd interaction of the Jake/Martel match, but only one person was blindfolded here so they worked the match differently given the circumstances and honestly I think this is a BETTER match overall.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*The World's Greatest Tag Team Vs APA*

:mark: this looks awesome on paper. 

Typical start to an APA match; APA beat the fuck out of anyone in the ring with them. But BRADSHAW has himself an injured arm, and that allows the WGTT to prevent getting killed TOO MUCH .

So, with Bradshaw having a bad arm, you'd expect WGTT to go after it and shit, right? Wrong! They instead... work over FAROOQ'S ARM :lmao. WHAT THE FUCK? Bradshaw is already hurt. FUCK HIM UP. Ain't brain science ffs.

They work over Farooq's arm fine, but again it's the fucking WRONG PERSON lol.

Hot tag to Bradshaw and fuck me he's awesome coming off the hot tag. Murdered everyone.

CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL~! Charlie Hass is out. But he isn't the legal man!

SUPERKICK~! Shelton pins Bradshaw.

Fine match, didn't go very long though. Just think they worked it the wrong way. Should have been the guy with an INJURY getting worked over lol.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


GOLDBERG HAS ARRIVED. YEY. HE GETS TO SIT AND WATCH THE SHOW IN THE FRONT ROW FOR STORYLINE PURPOSES INSTEAD OF A FAN GETTING TO SIT THERE!!!

Paul Heyman comes out to address Goldberg. Lesnar shows up too. He provokes Goldberg fighting in the ring, forcing security to kick him out! Smart by Lesnar and Heyman to get rid of him now so Lesnar can defend his title in the main event without looking over his shoulder all the time. OR DOES HE? 

Unfortunately Goldberg beats the hell out of Lesnar, then HARDCORE HOLLY runs out to try and get him some :lmao.


*Hardcore Holly Vs Rhyno*

I... have no idea why this match is a thing :lmao. Oh, according to Cole, this whole feud began THREE NIGHTS AGO :lmao.

So this was a match. They wrestled. It was fine. GORE. ALABAMA SLAM. Holly wins.

Wow, absolutely NOTHING else to say on this one :lmao. It was fine but... I just didn't care.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


UNDERTAKER RETURNING AS THE DEAD MAN TEASE VIDEO :mark:.


*Rey Mysterio Vs Chavo Guerrero - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match*

Wow, I'm willingly going to watch a Chavo Jr match. I must be ill... .

Well I SAID willingly... I just waited FOUR DAYS before actually sitting through it :lmao.

Some Mexican boxer or something is out with Rey to counter the fact CHAVO CLASSIC is in Chavo Jr's corner.

Chavo tries to take Rey's mask off, so Rey kicks him in the fucking face, beats the shit out of him and sends him running to daddy. Literally :lmao. Chavo Jr is such a pussy!

They go back and forth for a little while, then Rey picks up some momentum, hits a 619, and goes for a West Coast Pop only to have Chavo Classic knock him off the arpon. WHILE THE BOXER IN REY'S CORNER JUST WATCHED :lmao. He at least knocks out Classic, but the referee sees it and sends him to the back. What a useless cameo :lmao.

:lmao and after all that, Rey is STILL controlling the match :lmao. Could they only afford to have the boxer on TV for so long? Because the entire thing was like Chavo's existence; pointless.

Chavo eventually gains control and wow I just stop caring. Completely.

Rey starts getting some hope spots in and that's when the match really picks up and gets good, because you know, REY IS FUCKING AWESOME. 

APRON DDT TO CHAVO~!

Rey keeps building momentum, manages to hit another 619 and then almost a West Coast Pop but not quite, as Chavo rolls through into a single leg boston crap, something he'd used on Rey earlier.

Chavo Classic wakes up finally, knocks Rey off the ropes and Chavo manages to get a quick pin and wins the CW title.

Rey was great in this, Chavo bored the fuck out of me. Solid match but not as good as I remembered it being.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Kurt Angle Vs The Big Show Vs John Cena - #1 Contendership for the WWE Championship at WrestleMania*

:lmao at the "tale of the tape" for this match. Career highlights are on there, with Show and Angle having multiple WWE title reigns and other accomplishments... and then Cena has "PHD in Thuganomics" as his ONLY highlight :lmao.










So the match starts and Big Show tells Cena to stay back because he wants KURT ANGLE alone. So Cena just relaxes and laughs as Angle gets thrown around by the giant :lmao. Angle sees this and challenges Cena to take on the big man on his own. Same results, with Angle laughing at Cena this time :lmao. Angle and Cena get in each other's face over it and... beat the shit out of each other :lmao. Fun start to the match tbh. Better than them automatically just going after Big Show together.

ANGLE TRIES TO HUMP BIG SHOW~!










:lmao.

Whole match so far has been Big Show dominating one man at a time while the other sits on the outside waiting for his turn to come back into the match lol. The ever exciting TRIPLE THREAT FORMULA~!

Fucks sake Cena. SELL. He has a fucked knee. Happened at the RR when Show eliminated him. He has a knee strap on it. Show works it over. So what does Cena do on his comeback? DROPKICK. TOP ROPE BIONIC ELBOW. A FUCKING F-U TO THE 500LB BIG SHOW. Well I guess SOMEONE needed to no sell shit while Angle was, ironically, selling on the floor...

FINISHERS~! KICK OUTS~! MAKING SUBMISSION HOLDS LOOK USELESS~!

At least throughout all of this, Big Show CONTINUES to go after Cena's injured leg. Someone has to remind the guy it's hurt :side:.

In fact it's Show's leg work that comes into play at the end of the match. He slams Cena knee first into the turnbuckle, then Angle shows up from behind, Angle Slam's Show over the ropes and applies the Ankle Lock to Cena and CENA TAPS OUT. CENA TAPS OUT.

Match isn't BAD, it's just average. Show was the absolute WORKHORSE of this match. Was rare we got Cena Vs Angle (save that for next year I guess lol...), so Show worked 90% of the match and was the one on top form with attacking injured body parts and being all GIANT-Y on everyone. Props to him. Angle... honestly wasn't there much either :lmao. Cena was the main problem as he took the biggest beating and was shoddy as fuck with his leg selling.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Brock Lesnar Vs Eddie Guerrero - WWE Championship Match*

:mark:

Been looking forward to this. Picked this PPV as my next Ramble because after watching WM and seeing Bryan overcoming the odds and winning the WWE Championship, I wanted to watch EDDIE do the same from 10 years earlier. Plus I'd already done my WM XX review so seeing Benoit do it was out of the question .

God I still love the story going into this match. I was already a big Eddie fan long before he became the most popular wrestler on the planet, and after knowing everything he'd been through to get back to WWE in 2002, it was impossible for anyone to NOT feel for Eddie and want him to realise his dream of becoming WWE Champion (unless they are a heartless cunt and if so FUCK YOU).

Lesnar was the PERFECT opponent for Eddie at this time too. It's like LESNAR is a representative of all of Eddie's demons, and Eddie has to go through this force that many people believe to be UNSTOPPABLE. And that's how Eddie felt in real life at one point with his demons. So now he gets to redeem himself once more by beating LESNAR and proving he can once again overcome those DEMONS.

Brock is confident as FUCK going into this. He ties up with Eddie and shoves him around, screaming YOU AIN'T NUFFIN at him, all the while Eddie keeps smiling and coming back at the BEAST.

Eddie keeps trying to fight back but Lesnar's POWER is a real game changer. Fuck me at that SNAP SUPLEX. Eddie bounces half way across the ring on impact.

FUCKING JEBUS. Eddie dives off the ropes to hit a hurricanrana and Lesnar catches him but DROPS HIM ON HIS HEAD like a powerbomb, before lifting him back up and SWINGING HIM AROUND then letting go and sending him halfway across the ring once again.

OVERHEAD BELLY TO BELLY SUPLEXES :mark:.

RUNNING KNEE TO THE FUCKING FACE while Eddie is in the corner. Lesnar is DOMINATING.

But Eddie is STILL fighting back. He keeps getting some shots in on Lesnar, but right now it isn't enough.

Eddie catches Lesnar! Knocks him down and drags him over to the ring post to wrap his legs around it! Lesnar tries his best to stop him, but takes a couple of shots to the knee before managing to turn it on Eddie and smash his face into the post .

MUSCLE BUSTER. Only unlike Samoa Joe, Lesnar has visible muscles 8*D.

FUCK ME SIDEWAYS. Lesnar presses Eddie over his head like he was fucking NOTHING. I mean DAMN, we've seen a lot of POWER by wrestlers over the years but fuck me, I don't think I've ever seen anyone lift someone in the air, that high too, with anywhere near the ease of Lesnar there.

Eddie escapes it and goes RIGHT FOR THE KNEE that he managed to do some minor damage to earlier, but before he can really go to work on the BEAST, Lesnar comes back with a Lariat that would make Stan Hansen proud.

All of Lesnar's attacks are working over the back and mid-section of Latino Heat. And it all looks awesome too. Overhead belly to bellys, shoulders to the gut, shoulders to the back etc.

Lesnar goes for another running knee to the face in the corner, but Eddie moves and Lesnar goes KNEE FIRST into the turnbuckle and crashes to the floor!!! PLANCHA~! Eddie might have finally found THE opening he needed!!! Back in the ring he goes right for the knee once again! The Beast is in trouble! Latino Heat is building momentum!!!

Aaaannnd then the POWER once again cuts Eddie off, but Brock is hurting now and can't get back on Eddie as much as he'd like. 

Brock is still too cocky, standing over Eddie talking trash, and in similar fashion to what Undertaker does in this position, Eddie suckers Lesnar in and applies a submission! And of course, it's to the BAD KNEE :mark:.

TILT-A-WHIRL INTO A HEADSCISSORS~! LATINO HEAT IS ON FIRE!!!

:lmao at Cole when Eddie applies a Figure Four. "BROCK HAS TAPPED OUT TO A SUBMISSION HOLD BEFORE, CAN HE DO IT AGAIN?" What else would he fucking tap out to, you mong? OMG LESNAR JUST TAPPED OUT TO SLAP TO THE FACE~!

Eddie is fucking RELENTLESS with his attack on Lesnar's knee :mark:. He can't stand toe to toe with Brock, so he's taking it to the mat where, with an injured knee to help him, he can have a REAL chance of winning even against an accomplished amateur wrestler like Brock.

As usual Brocks POWER comes into play and cuts off Eddie, but Brock is really feeling all that leg work, and isn't as explosive as before, taking his time between moves and unable to truly capitalise on his own offence. 

DIE EDDIE. JUST DIE! Man, a powerful moment in the match as Lesnar, now BLEEDING, is STILL unable to keep Eddie down. Like his battle against drug and alcohol addiction, Eddie IS NOT GIVING UP :mark:.

The fans begin to really get behind Eddie, helping him escape the grasp of BROCK and mount what could be his LAST STAND against the WWE Champion :mark:.

THREE AMIGOS~! LATINO HEAT IS FIRED UP ONCE AGAIN~! Frog Splash time baby!!!

And Lesnar moves. Eddie crashes and BURNS .

F-5~! But the referee gets caught by Eddie's legs on the way round! Eddie is down but the referee is OUT! It's almost like a higher power is giving Eddie another chance, just like in real life!!!

Lesnar brings the title into the ring. The referee is down, and LESNAR is pissed. He's been pissed for most of this match. He expected to run through Eddie like he was nothing, but Eddie just won't DIE.

Speaking of running through someone... GOLDBERG SPEARS THE HELL OUT OF LESNAR!!!

Eddie covers!

1...

2...

LESNAR KICKS OUT~!

And then it happens. Eddie looks down and sees the WWE title belt that LESNAR brought into the match, and he just grins from ear to ear . LIE, CHEAT AND STEAL~!

F-5 countered into a DDT... RIGHT ON THE BELT~! Sort of. That's the intention anyway haha. Either way... LESNAR IS DOWN!!!

FROG SPLASH~! THE COVER!

1...

2...

3!!! YES! EDDIE GUERRERO IS CHAMPION!!! :mark:

Eddie had a drug and alcohol addiction. He lost his job. He lost his family. He almost lost his life multiple times. But he came BACK. He overcame his demons. He got his family back. He got his job back. And now he beat BROCK LESNAR and won the WWE CHAMPIONSHIP! Still an emotional match to watch .

Incredible. Just fucking INCREDIBLE. 

*Rating: ****3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 8*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 12.5*​


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> I was serious
> 
> Too many people in this thread believe that their opinion is the universal truth, if Gmofgods only thinks that Angle/Austin is ****1/4, whats wrong with that?



...nothing is wrong with it. It's just my opinion that he's nit picking by calling the first half a mess. Am I not allowed to have a differing opinion? If someone thinks one thing, and I think another, it's called having a different opinion. Why is this so hard for everyone to understand? I didn't call anyone names or say he's stupid for having an opinion. Just stated my case on why I think he's wrong, and also that you can nit pick any given match if you really want to.

P.s. BROCK VS EDDIE :mark: :mark: Awesome work Cal, you really captured the spirit and story of that match. I always looked at it as, Eddie went into that match knowing he had already defeated the biggest obstacle he would ever face in his life in beating his drug addiction. There was no way in hell he was gonna surrender to Brock, as dominate as he was, when he knew deep down he had what it takes to conquer anything. Eddie dancing on the announce table with the Mexican flag in one hand and his championship in another is just a priceless moment.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Whenever I read reviews like this, I thank the high heavens that I'm not the poster. Nit picking Austin/Angle SS and saying "the first half is a mess"?! Get out of here, that match is as perfect as it gets, one of the 5 best in WWE history. I think you and a lot of other people just get joy out of over analyzing things and nit picking. You can take any match, even Flair/Steamboat, and nit pick it to death if you want. People switch up the focus of their attack in MMA and boxing all the time, but when Austin transitions from working the leg to just mauling Angle on the outside, you call it "a mess". Austin in kayfabe probably went in with the plan to work a leg to slow Angle down, but when he saw the opportunity to go for the kill on the outside, he seized it. Nothing wrong at all with that.


Good lord lol. I'm sorry I prefer realism and storytelling over what you want to see. The first half was a mess. When you're someone who unfortunately has a different mindset on how a match should be done due to what you were taught, you are going to notice things like those. What, I should ignore the bad parts of a match because "OH MY GERD DERS BLOOD HUR HUR AND LOTZ OF ANKLE LUCKZ HUR HUR". No, I'm sorry but it simply does not work like that. And even then, there's no way you can defend 7 german suplex's in one sequence. 

Oh and btw, if Bryan/HHH isn't a near perfect match then neither is Angle/Taker. Just my opinion. :draper2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk (Night of Champions 2009)*

After having so much fun watching their match at The Bash, it was only right for me to rewatch their "other" forgotten big match. Let's see what this has to offer.

Unlike their previous PPV match, by this point CM Punk fully turned into an arrogant, self-righteous heel. His goal shifted from just holding on to his title to exposing who Jeff Hardy really was to the rest of the world. Hardy's goals shifted as well; it wasn't just about gaining the title after losing it in record time. He needed to prove to others that his philosophy trumps that of Punk's.

Now what better way to start off the match than showing the gap in ring intelligence between Jeff Hardy and CM Punk? I love how Punk started off by chain wrestling not necessarily for the purpose of grounding his opponent, but rather to psyche Hardy out and play the proverbial mind games while also establishing some sort of a hierarchy. Jeff sold that feeling of surprise pretty well in his facial expression to referee Scott Armstrong. The hierarchy with regards to ring intelligence was further established with the way that Punk would avoid Hardy's high-risk maneuvers not once, but twice. Credit should be given to both Ross and Grisham for talking about Punk's confidence and superiority complex.

Now with this hierarchy established, there needs to be some way that Punk has to look flawed, and like we've seen over the years in his matches along with most other heels, it all comes down to hubris. The first time we see it is when Punk attempts and misses a suicide dive after Hardy misses a high-risk maneuver. It almost looked like Punk was trying to mock Hardy there by trying his opponent's style, but he failed miserably. Punk also shows his hubris by taunting the crowd while Hardy was getting counted out, but when Hardy came back in the ring before the ten count, Punk's facial expression changed to that of shock and anger (and it may not be the last time we see this ). The beauty of this though is that Punk then changes his plan of action from establishing a hierarchy into acting on his shock and anger and kicking the crap out of Jeff. Real nice way to progress the match into the next gear from these guys.

Now with this new direction, I expected us to see more of Punk's frustration exemplified in the forthcoming moments. However, what we saw instead was less of Punk beating the crap out of Hardy and instead they went way too early into Hardy's comeback sequence. As over as Jeff was at the time, his comeback felt pretty flat because we did not see enough of Punk beating the crap out of him. It also didn't help that Hardy looked like he was powerwalking instead of exploding, but even that could have been looked past if they decided to structure this portion of the match better. At the very least, I did like how they did the same thing in their last match by having Punk miss a move, bump, and then leave a pocket of time for Jeff to take advantage. I just wish that we had more time to see Jeff take a beating.

Early part of the finishing sequence was nice, especially when they called back to the hierarchy established in the early part of the match with Jeff Hardy attempting not one, but two Swanton Bombs while Punk uses his ring awareness to avoid both of them. What comes afterwards though has to be my favorite part of the match and why this match goes from being good to really good. When Punk reverses the Twist of Fate into the GTS, it looked like the match was over, BUT JEFF HARDY KICKS OUT! Oh my Mengness, the shock and anger that showed up earlier in the match by Punk doesn't compare to what he shows now. Remember when Cena kicked out of Punk's piledriver in their awesome 2013 match? The expression that Punk showed in that match is nothing compared to here. The grin in Punk's face while he was pinning Hardy turned into :faint:. I loved the use of the multiple pin attempt spot here, since this moment called for it. Take notes, John Cena. Take notes, Kurt Angle. THIS is how you sell your finisher getting kicked out. Please guys, if you ever watch this match soon, look at the way Punk sells Hardy's kickout.

With no incentive to try to beat Jeff, Punk leaves with the belt and tries to get counted out, but Jeff Hardy brings him back into the ring, his the Twist of Fate, then the Swanton on the third attempt and wins the WHC. I kinda felt empty watching Jeff come back and win, but it's of no fault of Hardy's and more so my markdom for Punk.

If you want shift-8s for this match, I would put it at around ****3/4*. Unlike the other world title match on this PPV that was riddled with overbooking and attempts to be epic, these two decided to take everything simple. They didn't even need to do limbwork like we are so accustomed to seeing from good wrestling matches. They established a hierarchy that stayed consistent throughout the match, sold very effectively, told the story through their facial expressions and movements, and ended on a high note with one specific moment in the match that we can point back to and say "brilliant". A very different match from any other in their series, but you can say that about any of their matches together. Also worth noting that nothing in the match felt like it dragged. Perfect use of time. There was one major flaw that withheld the match from becoming truly great, but it was a matter of something that could be improved rather than something that was outright bad. This might be the weakest of their four big matches, but despite that, Jeff Hardy and CM Punk bring it once again.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*@GMofGods*, as far as I know he too prefers realism and storytelling over pure spectacle. Plus, if you prefer that style (I do too, though I don't mind watching a good spotfest or a "epic Angle-style... epic" once in a while), I guess we can agree Savage/Warrior is a masterpiece right?

I'll NEVER stop plugging that match. 8*D


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

GMofGods loves realism eh? Have I got a match for you. The most realistic match ever at WrestleMania

Butterbean vs Bart Gunn. The selling of Gunn magnificent. No man has EVER sold a right hand like Gunn in this bout. Butterbean proved once and for all he belonged in the Federation. 

A ***** out of *****


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

GUYS, let's laugh at this instead. (Thanks, Cal)










:lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:mark: at the Eddie/Brock review, Cal. That's one of my favorite matches of all time. Eddie was so damn likable and that match gets me so fired up.

Awesome review of Punk/Hardy, FF. That was a fantastic feud.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> GUYS, let's laugh at this instead. (Thanks, Cal)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:lmao Fucking hell, im in tears. Like Show i suppose. Our minds eh.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Shelton had it worse (or better depending how you see it :lol)






His biggest marks are right: Angle really is "unstoppable" :kurt


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> :lmao Fucking hell, im in tears. Like Show i suppose. Our minds eh.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App



Oh my god that has me fucking dying right now. Angle man, he's too much. I can honestly say, Angles character in the WWE ALWAYS entertained me. Him trying to go "Deliverance" on Big Shows 500lb ass is priceless.

GMofGods- it's safe to say that everyone in this thread enjoys realism and telling a good story in the ring. No need to get all pretentious about it, you just seem to have an opposing viewpoint on what that entails, precisely. Angles 7 Germans were awesome in that match, though I do feel he kinda sorta ripped off Benoit who gave Austin I think 9 or 10 in their classic match on Smackdown. Let me guess, you don't like Benoit/Austin, either?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That gif is about to look like a pile of shit compared to what's coming in my next RAMBLE :mark:. Started it already because, well, the fuck else am I gonna do? 

All I'll say is that it's a RAW show.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

With Angle's stamina in his prime I'm sure Show and Benjamin would have trouble sitting for weeks. :angle2


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

That gif of Angle/Big Show :lmao.

Thanks for the review Cal,No Way Out 2004 was awesome.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Cal loved *Angle/HBK WM*? :shocked: That's a swerve. 

FF, don't have much to say, other than maybe I'll notice that stuff on next watch, but I was really surprised by the "it was nonsensical" type of comments in here. Didn't get that vibe at all, and I went in not caring much about seeing the match at all. So it's not like I was predisposed to like the match, but it blew me away. From what I remember, I actually thought it was one of the more cleverly built matches. Felt like it had a clear trajectory, in terms of beginning, middle, and end, and how Shawn wanted to prove he could outwrestle Angle, but that wasn't enough to put him away, so it went into a brawl, and then the frenzied ending.

I just know that it had me absolutely riveted the entire time, except for the slow first few minutes (and I remember distinctly thinking that "'skins must have wanted to kill himself right about now" haha).

I think that it's my _favorite_ of Shawn's second run, though not what I would consider the best (still top 3, though...though, I haven't watched the '08 Jericho series yet).



Um, I just randomly watched *Edge/Sable vs. Marc Mero/Jacqueline from Summerslam 1998*. I expected to hate it and was wondering why I was even bothering (aside from being on an Edge kick)...but it was surprisingly fun, and not remotely bad at all, for what it was.

Most shocking discovery is that Sable looked like she could wrestle a bit here. Well, I mean at least she had some moves and some decent personality. Don't know if she could ever carry a decent singles match that required unrelenting wrestling, but it just shocked me, because I didn't remember her ever looking decent.

All I ever remember was her doing hair pulling and shit. Makes me think that maybe there was some untapped potential there, but they took the easy way out.

I mean her Hurricana looked better than most male wrestlers, and I'm not kidding.

Also, lmao at Mero having to job to his wife. That must be so humiliating. Wonder if that hurt his marriage. Imagine working so hard for a wrestling career, and that's what you get out of it?

Edge's suicide dive or whatever looked cool. Don't remember seeing him do a lot of stuff like that.

*** for a mixed gender match that I wasn't gonna even give the time for...



_ETA:_ Didn't read the Brock/Eddie review yet, Cal, 'cause I don't want stuff ruined (though I do know who wins), but just want to say that I'm glad to see you rated it so highly. It's a match that I've been really looking forward to. I've been purposely saving it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Savage/Sherri vs Dusty/Sapphire was good. 

By good I mean train wreck.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

There is actually more proof out there that Kurt's WWE self was rather open to "other colors" 

I mean, BROCK LESNAR kissed him:






Now that sure means he's got attitude :kurt

But enough plugging Angle's other side, I agree with Cal - his match with Shawn at WM 21 is quite great, and Vengeance plays it way better actually. Their Iron Man match sucked tho.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Cal loved *Angle/HBK WM*? :shocked: That's a swerve.
> 
> FF, don't have much to say, other than maybe I'll notice that stuff on next watch, but I was really surprised by the "it was nonsensical" type of comments in here. Didn't get that vibe at all, and I went in not caring much about seeing the match at all. So it's not like I was predisposed to like the match, but it blew me away. From what I remember, I actually thought it was one of the more cleverly built matches. Felt like it had a clear trajectory, in terms of beginning, middle, and end, and how Shawn wanted to prove he could outwrestle Angle, but that wasn't enough to put him away, so it went into a brawl, and then the frenzied ending.
> 
> ...


Need to rewatch some of the Punk/Hardy matches on the C ppvs, remember the bash match being awesome

You know FF pretty much explains my feelings on HBK/Angle WM to a tee, just the only different is I dont like the match at all anymore while he still thinks its decent. All of their match are pretty poor tbh, as I know a few who enjoy the Vengeance match. The HBK/Y2J series just doesnt do it for me from an in-ring standpoint, I know its odd but it just doesnt, I think their TGAB match is pretty good but its been years since I've seen it

Watching the TLC from TLC 12 along w/ some warrior matches again on the network. Think I've watched this match over 10x which is uber rare for me, I only think Cena/Lesnar is better from that year



Edit: Why is a video of Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle kissing on this page :kobe go in the Shield thread with that stuff dude


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Oh my god that has me fucking dying right now. Angle man, he's too much. I can honestly say, Angles character in the WWE ALWAYS entertained me. Him trying to go "Deliverance" on Big Shows 500lb ass is priceless.


I can't believe it took me almost five minutes to get the "deliverance" joke. I feel stupid.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> GMofGods- it's safe to say that everyone in this thread enjoys realism and telling a good story in the ring. No need to get all pretentious about it, you just seem to have an opposing viewpoint on what that entails, precisely. Angles 7 Germans were awesome in that match, though I do feel he kinda sorta ripped off Benoit who gave Austin I think 9 or 10 in their classic match on Smackdown. Let me guess, you don't like Benoit/Austin, either?


*GET READY FOR A LONG ASS POST*

Not getting pretentious, but I feel like you and I have two different definitions of what realism is. 

But regardless, let me see if I can try to explain what I look for in a wrestling match. I'll use an example by comparing two matches that are very famous and feature the same people. And they are the HBK vs Undertaker matches from Wrestlemania (Their HIAC match is a whole different story because given the gimmick of the match, the way they performed was excellent and they deserve the praise they get for the match).

One of the things that I was taught when I was learning about Pro Wrestling was what Daniel Bryan described as "In Ring Psychology". We didn't call it that, we didn't even have a name for it, but what we tried to learn was how to make a match seem as real as possible. We operated under a system where when things happen in the ring, they happen for a reason. When we tell a story, we want it to make sense. When setting up for a spot, we want things to fall into place as well as they possibly can. Sometimes this simply can't be done, and at times you are going to have predictable moments in the ring. Those are okay. It happens. But when two people who don't face often come toe to toe in the ring, we always tried to make sure our styles meshed as well as possible so that it's easier to set up spots in a match or simply have a step by step process in a match. I'm sorry if that isn't explained very well, it's kind of hard to explain on a computer.

So in their first Wrestlemania encounter, we saw a lot of this. I'm only going to use one example and that's when Taker first hit the Tombstone on Michaels. How was this set up? Michaels got thrown out of the ring but held onto the ropes, and per typical Michaels fashion, he tried to boost himself back up. He ended up setting himself up for a Tombstone which Taker took advantage of. That was absolutely brilliant. It wasn't a case of either guy trying to be fancy, but rather both guys playing to their styles and setting up for a spot in fashion we've never seen or haven't seen for a long time. Now in their Wrestlemania 26 match, we don't see this. The one spot that pretty much sums up what I'm talking about is the first Tombstone spot. Now, Michaels dives outside of the ring and Taker catches him. I am about to explain the problems I have with this spot.

1. The transition from catching Michaels into setting him up for the tombstone is horrible. He literally has to shift Michaels entire body around just so he can get him in the appropriate position for the tombstone spot. This isn't their fault, but it doesn't take away from the sequence, something you know Michaels could have easily gotten out of (and just an fyi I absolutely hate spots where wrestlers hold someone in their finisher position for a long period of time before actually executing).
2. Taker had just got done having his leg worked on for basically the entire match before this spot. Realistically, there is no possible way Taker could have been able to catch Michaels like this, stand on his feet and be able to transition Michaels into the spot by holding his entire body, especially when during the match they play it off like he lost his balance due to his leg injury when he was trying to do the Last Ride on Michaels.
3. It takes Taker a minute or two just to regain his breath after doing the spot to get Michaels back in the ring and cover him. Why? You just twirled a man you were carrying on your body and were able to tombstone him. I get that you will be tired at times especially during long matches that you were late into and are doing finishers now, but given what was just previously happening, this should not be a moment where Taker needs to rest after hitting a move like this. A move like Sweet Chin Music I can understand, but I can't stand spots like these.

You may think this is nitpicking, but it actually isn't. It's what a lot of people who are actual pro wrestlers do. I consider Christian to be one of the best storytellers in the business today because of how he presents himself in the ring. When he's in a ladder match and he has a move hit on him, he'll roll by a standing ladder and knock it down. It makes sense. It's little things that just add to a match. Everyone is different. I still have a lot to learn when it comes to Pro Wrestling, my knowledge is limited. But with what I do know and all the research I've done, to me, matches like Austin/Angle are not five star worthy matches, and matches like Angle/Taker from NWO or the final HBK/Taker match are not classics in anyway nor are they deserving of even a mere 4 star rating, even if part of it is a matter of personal taste. What you look for in a pro wrestling match is probably a lot more different than what I look for.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You didn't mention if you liked Benoit/Austin or not 8*D

That being said, I got your point but, my opinion here on your own, you do seem a bit too... let's call it "serious" for what you're looking for in a match. I too prefer the grittier and more realistic approach to a match (the style of a Chris Benoit, a Brock Lesnar or a William Regal for example), and I know wrestling's main goal is to tell a story. But I also can't forget that a wrestling match is also supposed to be "entertainment", thus I always look for a match that is both fun and tell a succesful story. As long as it hits at least one of those standards, I can't hate it. That probably explains why you have standards so much higher than mine right there.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

ATF said:


> *You didn't mention if you liked Benoit/Austin or not* 8*D
> 
> That being said, I got your point but, my opinion here on your own, you do seem a bit too... let's call it "serious" for what you're looking for in a match. I too prefer the grittier and more realistic approach to a match (the style of a Chris Benoit, a Brock Lesnar or a William Regal for example), and I know wrestling's main goal is to tell a story. But I also can't forget that a wrestling match is also supposed to be "entertainment", thus I always look for a match that is both fun and tell a succesful story. As long as it hits at least one of those standards, I can't hate it. That probably explains why you have standards so much higher than mine right there.


Which match?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TheGMofGods said:


> Which match?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> You didn't mention if you liked Benoit/Austin or not 8*D
> 
> That being said, I got your point but, my opinion here on your own, you do seem a bit too... let's call it "serious" for what you're looking for in a match. I too prefer the grittier and more realistic approach to a match (the style of a Chris Benoit, a Brock Lesnar or a William Regal for example), and I know wrestling's main goal is to tell a story. But I also can't forget that a wrestling match is also supposed to be "entertainment", thus I always look for a match that is both fun and tell a succesful story. As long as it hits at least one of those standards, I can't hate it. That probably explains why you have standards so much higher than mine right there.




You really took the words right out of my mouth. Not every match can be Benoit/Regal No Mercy, a match that you could probably show someone who knows nothing about pro wrestling and they would come away convinced they just watched a legitimate competition. I think the difference between me and you GMofGods is, I have learned to appreciate all the different styles of pro wrestling. Whether it's Eddie/Rey HH 1997, Benoit/Finlay JD 06', Angle/Michaels WM 21, Bret/Austin WM 13, Vader/Steamboat, Funk/Flair GAB, or Foley/Taker KotR 1996, I can appreciate and enjoy it all. Those matches I listed really couldn't be more different from each other, but I love them all to varying degrees. I love gritty, realistic matches, but all matches can't be like that. From your perspective, everything needs to be as real as possible and tell a coherent story. Well, wouldn't that disqualify any matches that feature an Irish whip? Who in the world would ever Irish whip an opponent in a real contest? Sometimes a little realism needs to be sacrificed for the overall entertainment value, like in the case of that HBK/Taker WM 26 spot you pointed out. Yes Takers leg is weak, but the majority of that spot involved upper body strength. Sure leg strength is a small part of it, but from a wrestling point of view, he didn't actually use his leg for anything so it didn't detract from anything in my eyes. 

I get what you're saying, but I think a lot of the things you have mentioned as not being "real" are things that you really have to be doing a bit of mental gymnastics to see. I'm not saying you're wrong for thinking this way, I'm saying that I just don't watch matches with my mindset being to analyze every spot or sequence for maximum realism. If that makes any sense. Taker is one guy that is universally praised for having "sound psychology" in just about all his matches, I'm just surprised you've managed to find so much wrong with his matches vs Angle and HBK.

And yea, you never answered whether you like Austin/Benoit SD


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Can we stop talking about GMofGods' tastes and instead talk about CM Punk and Jeff Hardy?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Can we stop talking about GMofGods' tastes and instead talk about CM Punk and Jeff Hardy?


Watch the SD cage match in my DM channel. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Unforgiven 2004*

The beginning of Orton Vs HHH feud. That would last forever. And suck the entire time outside of two matches. Yey...


*Ric Flair & Batista Vs Chris Benoit & William Regal*

Well FUCK ME this sounds awesome on paper. I did see this not too long ago, because it sounded AWESOME ON PAPER. Unfortunately I don't remember ANTYHING about it. Guess we'll have to wait and see if that's a good thing or not .

Batista comes out of the box throwing punches, so Benoit avoids them and counters into a Crossface attempt! LOL, fuck you Batista. Batista comes back trying to use his power, so Benoit counters into a dragon screw leg whip! Ha. TAG TO REGAL :mark:. 

Regal being all BOSSY and throwing Batista around with a great suplex. Man oh man, add Finlay to this mix and you'd have the GOAT 3 man team. They would have been perfect to go up against EVOLUTION while HHH was busy with someone else over the title or something (though obviously that's fucked at this point because Orton is the guy keeping HHH busy lol).

FLAIR AND BENOIT :mark:. CHOPS~!

Regal tagged in :mark:. ELBOING THE FUCK OUT OF FLAIR :mark:.

GOAT FLAIR SPOT EVER :mark:.










Flair tries to get back into things with a thumb to the eye and shots to the knee, but REGAL is too MANLY to drop to just that.

MOAR AWESOME FLAIR :mark:. Benoit chops him so hard he keeps trying to drop down forward, but Benoit holds him up and chops him some more :mark:.

:lmao ENZIGURI to Flair, and it sends him over to Batista for a tag, but he just stands there and does ANOTHER Flair Flop :lmao. This is already the greatest thing ever.

Regal and Benoit are OWNING this tag match so far. Tons of quick tags, great wrestling, and hard CHOPS.

Then the power of Batista comes into play finally for Evolution, and we get the awesome mix of power from Batista and wrestling/experience/CHEATING from the Nature Boy :mark:. And Regal is the FIP too :mark:. Benoit would probably be BETTER, but I'm all for Regal being in the match the longest haha. Plus, you know, Regal is still fucking AWESOME.

Screw what I just said, I'm not even sure Benoit would have been better, because Regal is killing it. He's awesome at FACES, and I love how he screams in pain whenever Flair chop blocks his knee.

Poor Regal gets mauled, then a hot tag to Benoit and we get more Benoit Vs Flair :mark:. Insane seeing OLD MAN FLAIR taking MULTIPLE GERMAN SUPLEXES. I love crazy old man Flair. Better than 90's Flair.

DIVING HEADBUTT~! SHARPSHOOTER ATTEMPT~! THUMB TO THE EYE~! CROSSFACE~!

:mark: Batista just picking Benoit up out of the Crossface while he's got it locked in on Flair was awesome. Now THAT is how you break up a fucking submission!!!

:lmao Regal still being awesome on the outside, sending Batista into the ring post WHICH ONLY MAKES HIM MAD. Batista charges at Regal for a clotheslines, Regal ducks and Batista flies into the crowd :lmao.

CROSSFACE TO FLAIR~! TAP OUT~! REGAL AND FLAIR ARE OFFICIALLY THE GREATEST TAG TEAM EVER!!!

This was great. Truly. So much damn fun with some great quality to boot. Even Batista didn't drag this down at any point. True, Flair worked most of the match, but yeah. All awesome.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


Christian backstage with his lover. And Trish too. Ha. Get it? HE AND TYSON ARE GAY. Is what I was getting it. I'M FUNNY.


*Victoria Vs Trish Stratus - WWE Women's Championship*

Ummm... no. They did some great stuff in 2002, but I don't have much faith in them in 2004, especially with Trish as the heel and Victoria no longer being a crazy mental chick.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


So after the match, Tomko gets hold of Victoria, but some dude in drag shows up and stops him. Tomko decides to call him out. I genuinely don't fucking remember ANY of this :lmao. I'm interested to see who it is :lmao. THEY MAKE IT A MATCH TOO. BEFORE WE FIND OUT WHO IT IS :lmao. It's Steven Richards. LOL.


*Tomko Vs Steven Richards*

I am not watching this.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Chris Jericho Vs Christian - Intercontinental Championship Ladder Match*

Don't remember this match at all. I LOVE their WM match... but not sure if adding a ladder to the mix is gonna keep up the awesomeness.

:lmao this was made into a ladder match because Christian turned down a cage match as the last time he had a cage match with Jericho, he injured his back and was out for a few months. THAT WON'T HAPPEN IN A LADDER MATCH THOUGH!!! :lmao

We get a nice WRESTLING match early on between these two, making me remember why I adore their WM match so much, before a ladder comes into play. 

COME ON, YOU ASS CLOWN~!

A ladder match... where they fight in the crowd! I can only assume Christian wants to take him out there so Jericho would have to both recover and THEN make his way back to the ring in order to prevent Christian from climbing a ladder and winning.

But nope, Christian actually brings Jericho back, then loses control :lmao. POINTLESS~!

:mark: sweeeet sequence on the outside ending in an UNPRETTIER ON THE FLOOR :mark:. Jericho is DEAD.

Christian realises this and goes for a ladder. COME ON CHRISTIAN!!!!

CHRISTIAN HAS THE BELT IN HIS HAND!!! Bah, Jericho is back up. Christian decides to punish him for being a cunt and getting up from his finisher on the floor. Which results in Christian going face first into a ladder. DAMMIT JERICHO. 

:mark: Jericho goes face first into the ladder. LETS GO CHRISTIAN *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP*.

Lol, almost ALL of the ladder spots in this match so far have just been people running into the ladder (in different ways) face first. And I LOVE IT. Makes a change from people having to rely on dumb spots off the top of a ladder or whatever. I bet they watched Hardy/RVD from SS 01 and based this match on what NOT to do in a ladder match. Because that one is the WORST ladder match ever. I mean so fucking bad you have to be brain dead to think it's anything beyond the worst thing ever. And ugly too. Bet fans of that are UGLY. Probably an awful taste in music too.

Ooooo, Jericho takes on NASTY bump into a ladder in the corner and gets his leg all caught up and shit. He can barely even STAND UP, allowing Christian to climb the ladder... but just as he gets to the top, Jericho taunts him! Christian takes exception to that and comes back down to dish out some more punishment, but Jericho suckered him in!!! BULLDOG ONTO THE LADDER~!

LIONSAULT ON A LADDER~! CHRISTIAN MOVED~! HA~!

CHRISTIAN HAS THE BELT~! But Jericho takes the ladder out from under him, leaving Captain Charisma hanging!!! LADDER TO THE GUT~! CHRISTIAN CRASHES DOWN WITHOUT THE TITLE!

Walls of Jericho on the ladder, but it looks kinda sucky compared to the Benoit 01 match. Jericho lets go, reaches for the belt and Christian pulls the ladder out from under him this time and Jericho falls like a fucking rock and smashes his lower back on the side of the ladder. FUCKING OUCH.

First really MAJOR bump off the ladder comes with Jericho smashing Christian face first off the top of the ladder to the mat, and that allows Jericho to climb back up and win the match!

Overall I do like a LOT in this match... however at the same time is does feel like it drags (dead crowd didn't help), and they just seem to stay in one gear. Similar I guess to the HHH/Benoit Iron Man earlier in the year. They do some good stuff but never go into that higher gear to make it more memorable or better.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


LITA COMING OUT OF KANE'S LOCKER ROOM. WHAT A SLUT. She's rooting for Shawn in the match against her "husband" Kane lol.


*Kane Vs Shawn Michaels - No DQ Match*

Kane took out HBK my smashing his throat or something, so LITA (FAP? FAP!), as Kane's unwilling wife, signed HBK's name on an open contract to face Kane tonight hoping that HBK would send Kane TO HELL.

UPPERCUT TO THE THROAT :mark:. If Kane works over Shawn's throat in this match I'll be happy.

Shawn starts to brawl with Kane and... it's not great . He does this thing where he hits Kane once, then just kinda moves around before hitting him again, all the while Kane just stands there waiting for the next shot.

KANE USES PREGNANT LITA AS A SHIELD~!

:lmao the evil announce table is at it again. Press slam to Shawn onto it and IT DOESN'T BREAK. So Kane suplexes him through it instead. I watch too much Botchamania because all I can picture now is the table lauging in some weird accent :lmao.

Bah, Kane is being dull as shit in control. At least CHOKE Shawn or something to target the throat. He'll do something every now and then that goes after the throat, then he'll go to something else like a fucking chin lock. And I mean a literally chin lock. He grabs HIS CHIN with one hand and the top of his head with the other. Looks terrible :lmao.

Shawn is bleeding. I have no idea how or when that even happened. 

HBK comeback. Stuff. Wow this isn't good at all. I'm BORED. Never a good sign lol.

Worst Sweet Chin Music ever, and I think the pun was botched too tbh.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*La Resistance Vs Tajiri & Rhyno - World Tag Team Championship Match*

I think I was told to avoid all La Resistance matches from this year too. But this has TAJIRI in it. I AM CONFUSED.

Fuck it. NOOOOO.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Randy Orton Vs Triple H - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Maybe this will end up like RR 05, and I'll be super surprised by how awesome it actually is. That could totally happen, right? RIGHT?

Oh god 30 minutes left on the show. DON'T MAKE ME WATCH IT .

They lock up, the push each other, the slap each other. Couple of fucking bitches in this match apparently... .

Lawler goes on a tirade on how Orton is inexperienced and shit because he takes the match to the outside and risks getting counted out. WHICH WOULD MEAN HE RETAINS THE FUCKING TITLE. Something TRIPLE H would approve of :lmao.

Leg work. HHH does some leg work.

17 minutes left? Fuck.

Orton tries to make a comeback and... HHH is bleeding. The fuck? TWICE IN ONE SHOW and I don't even notice how or when someone BLEEDS? LOL.

Oh look HHH trying to be Ric Flair. 

Oh look, ref bump. Followed by Evolution interference. And a low blow.

THE COACH runs down and puts on a referee shirt. Makes a 2 count and gets knocked out :lmao. Best part of this match so far.

RKO TO THE COACH~!

Fuck me how long is this "Batista and Flair run into the ring and get knocked out the come back in again" gonna last?

CHAIR TO ORTON. PEDIGREE ON THE CHAIR. Thank fuck it's over. HHH wins. Whatever.

God this is AWFUL. I mean AWFUL.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 3*​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah Hardy vs Punk stuff works as a topic to stop the crap from being in here. Lukewarm on their TLC match, tbhayley. Feels a little too gimmicky. Ok match in my memory bank. Unlike some bad TLC singles matches on other PPVs prior, where this didn't hit, thankfully. Nothing compared to what they would accomplish two days later in the cage.

Not sure if I'm on par w/loving The Bash match atm. And NOC is nothing more than "good". I still dig the feud tho. Perfect way to have Punker introduce the "Straightedge & better than you gimmick" in WWE.

Another Cal review :hb

Agreed w/most. Only difference is replace the dislike/like for Kane vs Michaels w/Jericho vs Christian and boom. That's me, dog. Kane >>>> _(if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't like it)_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TWO RAMBLES IN ONE DAY BITCHES. FEEL LUCKY. I'M TOO GOOD TO YOU PEOPLE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal I think my attraction for you was just reached. You're the good thing that was always right under my nose.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Made a mistake, gave the ladder 3 on the CAL SCALE, should have only been 2 :lmao.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Why dont you love birds get a room


WCW time via the network


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah Cal, you are great at everything. You even make ramming your own foot into a table look badass :troll


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The toenail still hasn't dropped off yet! I'm too scared to pull it off myself . Not the first time this has happened. The last time was filled with PAIN. But it's almost there, and I dropped about 4 heavy things on it today (by accident, duh) :lmao.

:lmao Unforgiven 04 only getting 3 overall on THE CAL SCALE puts it below THE 1999 ROYAL RUMBLE :lmao.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, it's still no worse than WrestleMania 15 I guess. Then again, if a show is worse than WM 15, you might as well call it Instant Wrestlecrap.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shows worse than WM 15 so far:

Armageddon 2004 - -5
Unforgiven 2003 - -1
Insurrextion 2003 - -0.5
WrestleMania 2 - 0.5
Insurrextion 2002 - 1
WrestleMania IV - 1
Bad Blood 2003 - 1


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> The toenail still hasn't dropped off yet! I'm too scared to pull it off myself . Not the first time this has happened. The last time was filled with PAIN. But it's almost there, and I dropped about 4 heavy things on it today (by accident, duh) :lmao.
> 
> :lmao Unforgiven 04 only getting 3 overall on THE CAL SCALE puts it below THE 1999 ROYAL RUMBLE :lmao.



Oh man Unforgiven 2004 sucks. Tomko/Richards! Modern day Steamboat versus Flair.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watching a bit of the RR 03. 

Brock/Show is still fun, Trips/Steiner is still lolawful, and Angle/Benoit just okay. Angle/Benoit just turns into spamming suplexes/submissions in the last like 10 minutes or so, and it got old. Plus Cole and Taz jizzing so hard over things so much made me roll my eyes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wow Bad Blood 2003 lower than WM 15? We don't agree. But then again, I like the last three matches on that show and don't use the CAL scale. Wait, I like Steiner vs Test too. Rest does suck. But, it's not as offensive as it could have been. IE anything else RAW tend to produce that year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I "No"'d the first 4 matches on BB 03 so it was fighting an uphill battle :lmao.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rodney Mack :lmao

He's well below the Sarkodie-Mensah scale.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*No Way out 2000 review 

HELL IN A CELL~! 

Match #1: Kurt Angle vs Chris Jericho 
*
Hopefully this is better than the match these guys had with Benoit at Mania this year, that match was just a dull borefest. Maybe the match was boring because of the 2/3 falls stip and the fact that Benoit wasn’t good in it. Match is really good, a lot better than the mania triple threat, IDK if its as good as the match they had at KOTR but it’s still entertaining throughout. Angle is REALLY good in it, and I’m not sure Jericho was at its best in it, as his control segments are kind of the more boring parts of the match. However, when Angle is in control, I loved it. Angle wins the IC belt, pretty sure this was his first title win in the company, he ended up having an awesome year, well I like basically all his stuff in WWE tbh, cept the HBK match at mania. ****

CAL SCALE: 2 

Match #2: The NAO vs The Dudley boys *

Billy Gunn is clearly injured in this match, he barely uses one of his arms and he spends a good amount of time on the apron. Was this his last match before going on injured reserve? Because he looks like a mess here, not in the way that hes selling well, because I don’t think the commentators even mentioned his arm was weak. Match is nothing special at all…quite bad actually, although it did set up the :mark: ladder match at mania. Match is a disappointment however due to Gunn’s injury and nobody else in the match puts on the performance of a lifetime to be able to carry a match.* 1/2*

CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #3: Mark Henry vs Viscera 
*
:mark: this match could be some good FATTY work here, though Viscera has only had like 1 or 2 matches that aren’t flat out DUDS :lol. This is apparently during the Mae Young storyline where Viscera landed right on mae young :|. JR mentions the star system, and says this won’t have many, :lmao at that BURIAL BY JR. Henry actually looks really good in this match. Fans chant boring, I disagree, this match was actually quite entertaining, especially with BIG MARK going over, good big man match. *** 

CAL SCALE: 0.5 

Match #4: The Hardy boys vs Edge and Christian* 

OK so we had this match like 50 million times in 1999-2000, do I care? Not really since they had some fun matches. But what does bother me is that this is a number one contenders match yet both teams would be in the tag title match at mania, making this match utterly pointless :lol. Match is fine, basically the same things I have come to expect from these teams together at this point when its not a Stip like TLC/Cage/Ladder which is where their best matches have come from. A bit better than the last match because at least all 4 men could work the match. Nothing overly special though, but worth your time, thought it dragged a LOT though, it goes 15 minutes when it should have gotten less than 10.* **

CAL SCALE: 0.5 

Match #5: Tazz vs The Big Bossman *

If this match was given some time, it could have been an AWESOME brawl, Bossman and Tazz were on the tail end of their careers but they could both still work decent brawls. Why squash the guy that just debuted though? Seems pretty silly to me. Crowd chants boring again, this is like the third time tonight, are we sure these guys are wrestling fans? Match is basically nothing, fun brawl while it lasted though. ** 

CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #6: X-Pac vs Kane* 

2000 might be the only year in WWF history where I legit enjoy the majority of X-Pac’s work, was their a cocaine shortage that year 8*D? PAUL BEARER IS HERE :mark: he always makes life better, and now he is a hall of famer! Storyline revolves around KANE HAVING A GIRLFRIEND? Well that’s dumb, hes depressed over having love for someone, when hes supposed to be a fucking monster. Well Kane with the mask as a babyface in general is :lmao. Should be an awesome fight though, NHB too! :lmao at Kane no selling in this match, X-Pac his him with a trash can and Kane acts like nothing happens :lol. I loved this match, and X-Pac’s 2000 resume continues to grow. Just a fun brawl and PAC played a pretty good heel in this and Kane played as good of a babyface as he could, but he still is much better as a heel especially at this time when he was still being built up as a monster. ***

CAL SCALE: 2

Match #7: 2 Cool & Rikishi Vs Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko & Perry Saturn

This match should be a ton of fun, RADICALZ! Basically a fan of everyone in this match, so I expect I will enjoy it quite a bit. Yeah I actually thought this match was pretty disappointing, it dragged a good bit and it had a fair bit of dull spots that I just didn’t enjoy, it felt pretty boring in parts. It had a bunch of good portions so it wasn’t a BAD match by any means, I just felt that I had a lot more hype going into it that I would enjoy it more, guess not . Rikishi ends up pinning Dean, bleh match. ***1/4 

CAL SCALE: 1

Match #8: The Big Show vs The Rock *

This match sounds like it could be really fun, I think its relatively short too, so it could be a really fun sprint. I love both guys especially in 2000 so this should be fucking fun. Loved this match, just as good as I expected it was going to be. The Rock works a pretty awesome match and I loved all the power moves by Big Show. Timing of the match is perfect, it only goes about 9:00, but any longer would have been too much, and any less would leave us wanting too much more. Loved the ending, Shane coming out with a MASSIVE pop was :mark:, as was Shane turning on the Rock to help the Big Show. Fun match, ending moments really drove up the rating too. ****1/2 

CAL SCALE: 3 

Match #9: HHH vs Mick Foley-HIAC match* 

Here we go! I have actually never seen this match! Huge shock I know but considering I have the street fight at the full 5 I know that I will love this match. Last Foley singles match for 4 YEARS, then he comes back in 2004, has a shitty mania match, and then puts on a classic at BL 2004 with Orton :mark:. I have a feeling I will be using the marking out code a good amount of times in this match. I mean, I’ve already written like 100 words about the match and it hasn’t even started yet! Early on, Triple H is just an awesome heel in this match, Foley being the FIP is fucking glorious as well, just beautiful stuff. Never thought I would call Triple H hitting Foley in the head with chairs beautiful but IDK. Foley is just an amazing FIP in this, everything he does makes me rally behind him even more, I wouldn’t say he carries the match, but he certainly makes the match what it is. Match is so close to the perfection they reached in the match before. Only complaint is that the finish should have come once he went through the cell and not after that, small thing though, it was a great match. *****1/2 

CAL SCALE: 7

FINAL CAL SCALE: 16 
*
*Current 2000 PPV rankings 
*
*1: Judgment day (20)
2: Summerslam (19) 
3: The Royal Rumble (17)
4: No Way out (16)
5: Unforgiven (15.5)
6: No mercy (14) 
7: WrestleMania 2000(13)
8: King of the ring (11) 
9: Rebellion (9) 
10: Insurrextion (8.5)
11: Survivor Series (7) 
12: Armageddon (4)
*​


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Rodney Mack :lmao
> 
> He's well below the Sarkodie-Mensah scale.


Whoa, easy there!

The White Boy Challenge is legendary. Seeing Rodney make white boys such as Bubba Ray and Val Venis pass out to his Cobra Clutch is a sight to behold.


----------



## JohnnyC55 (Jul 10, 2012)

Don't take this the wrong way, but it's strange how deeply some of you look into matches to "rate" them. Do you even watch matches for fun? :lol


----------



## English Dragon (Apr 10, 2010)

JohnnyC55 said:


> Don't take this the wrong way, but it's strange how deeply some of you look into matches to "rate" them. Do you even watch matches for fun? :lol


I think people have fun while watching them. I dont think people would give a good rating to a match they didnt enjoy and vice-versa, I lurk this thread a lot, its cool to read what people think are the best matches and see how it compares to your own view. 

Also interesting to see how some people can give a match a full 5 or close enough then others wont even rate it highly at all. Makes for fun debate.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

JohnnyC55 said:


> Don't take this the wrong way, but it's strange how deeply some of you look into matches to "rate" them. Do you even watch matches for fun? :lol


For me, a lot of the fun of reviewing and rating is the experience of rewatching and noticing all the subtleties and tricks that wrestlers use in order to further enhance the experience of viewing. Star ratings and such do get kinda silly at times and I will admit that as an avid user of them, but it's a convenient way to categorize things. We do watch matches for fun, but we all have different meanings of what fun is. For some, it's watching Goldberg squash jobbers. For others, it's watching John Morrison sell a leg injury to perfection in a ladder match against Sheamus.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^this

I love writing, so writing about wrasslin is easy as shit for me, so why not?


----------



## JohnnyC55 (Jul 10, 2012)

I see what you all mean. Another thing I've wondered browsing the thread is that when you (everyone) rate matches, do you factor in the storyline going into the match, the impact of the match, etc, or rate purely off of the action in ring? (Or both?)


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I think its circumstantial, like If the match had a good promo beforehand, that wont factor in, if they put a great story in the ring it will. 

Thats just me though


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I know it was a few pages ago but I only rate Austin/Angle at ****1/4 too. It's a great match but one of the top 5 matches EVER? Lol no, at least not for me. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> People switch up the focus of their attack in MMA and boxing all the time, but when Austin transitions from working the leg to just mauling Angle on the outside, you call it "a mess".


Yeah, have to say, I always disagree with this type of criticism. It was something I forgot to say earlier, regarding the HBK/Angle WM debate.

Never understood why people feel that a line of attack needs to be worked into the ending, or that it has to "go somewhere." You're in a fight...you're going to just try to wear down and weaken your opponent anyway you can.

Yeah, it's nice when there is a consistent storyline, as far as someone really working a body part & it playing into the ending, but I don't think it's necessary either.

I just don't think it's illogical at all to work a body part and then do something else.

Not going at anyone specifically over this, 'cause I've seen this expressed a lot throughout this thread many a time.

I guess everyone looks for different things in matches. Like, sloppiness generally bugs the living shit out of me, but for others it doesn't matter at all. So I guess we all have our different things that are important to us.

I just don't think that a wrestler is "wrong" for moving on from a body part. Nor does it detract any from a match for me. 


_ETA:_ Funny that Austin/Angle is being discussed so much, 'cause I re-watched it yesterday and it's **** 1/2 to me. Both men performed the hell out of their roles.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I know it was a few pages ago but I only rate Austin/Angle at ****1/4 too. It's a great match but one of the top 5 matches EVER? Lol no, at least not for me.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


WOAT opinion pls leave.

:HHH2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> WOAT opinion pls leave.
> 
> :HHH2


Deal with it

:batista4


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You really took the words right out of my mouth. Not every match can be Benoit/Regal No Mercy, a match that you could probably show someone who knows nothing about pro wrestling and they would come away convinced they just watched a legitimate competition. I think the difference between me and you GMofGods is, I have learned to appreciate all the different styles of pro wrestling.


I stopped reading right here. It seems like you have the impression that I only like technical wrestling. If that at all the case, Ric Flair wouldn't be my all-time favorite wrestler. Hell I said in another thread that I didn't care at all for Bryan/Regal from WWE Superstars. And there are other matches such as Angle/Benoit from Royal Rumble 2003 (which is odd considering how I find myself liking their Wrestlemania 17 match).

You want to know what one of my favorite matches of all time is? The classic two out of three falls match from Flair and Steamboat. You want to know what my second all time favorite match is? The I quit match between Flair and Funk. Do you see ANY technical wrestling in that match? No, that's not what the match is all about. But when you talk about realism, this match fits the description perfectly. You can feel the tension in that match, you actually feel like these two really hate each other, and they bring that out big time in this match. I fucking loved it then when I first saw it and I still love it now to this day. You want to know what my favorite Bret Hart match is? His steel cage match with Owen, something that isn't a technical masterpiece at all. But the way they played with the concept, of trying to escape from the cage and how well of a job they did with it, while also incorporating their styles into the match itself, was just outstanding and I loved it. Want to know what my favorite Shawn Michaels match is? His Hell in a Cell match with Taker. Why? I think you know why. 

So please, don't tell me I don't appreciate other aspects of Pro Wrestling, when clearly that isn't the case. It's just stupid to assume this. Sure, a lot of my favorite wrestlers were great technical wrestlers and had the ability to pull off high impact moves, but they are also people who can tell a story and adjust their styles very well to who ever they are up against, something guys like Kurt wasn't really the best at (which is strange given that he's one of my favorites as well). I will say however that the things I don't like in Pro Wrestling are repeated spots, an uneven pace in a match, a face and heel match the roles being completely reversed, spotfests (and this applies to technical wrestling styled matches), and of course, FUCKING MATCHES WHERE THEY ARE CLEARLY STALLING. That shit just pisses me off. 

And fyi, I haven't watched the Austin/Benoit match yet, I'll let you guys know how I feel about it. But why are you implying that I hated Austin/Angle when I never even stated that I did? A ****1/4 rating isn't something I'd give to a match that I hate. I enjoyed the match, I thought it was a great match, just felt it wasn't as great as everyone else did and that the first half was a mess and the second half was one of the best sequences I've ever seen.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I honestly think people are shitting on Gmofgods too much, so he has a different opinion than you? Big fucking deal? 

Some of you take others star ratings way too seriously


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> I honestly think people are shitting on Gmofgods too much, so he has a different opinion than you? Big fucking deal?
> 
> Some of you take others star ratings way too seriously


I also think part of it is them simply not being able to accept the fact that others think differently from them. Apparently one of them said 

"People switch up the focus of their attack in MMA and boxing all the time, but when Austin transitions from working the leg to just mauling Angle on the outside, you call it "a mess"."

:lmao good lord. I can't take statements like these seriously where there was obviously no logical thinking behind it but rather just trying to make the other person sound bad. People also tend to forget that, like I said before, I've done pro wrestling before. I'm not just a "fan", I'm a critic as well. I don't just look at major aspects, the little things play a large part in making a match great for me.

Hell after college is over with I might try to go back to training for Pro Wrestling, idk, I don't plan on ever going into WWE (and there's no possible way I could), but it's something I'd probably do just for fun because I enjoy it.

Edit: Oh wait I forgot to mention, my star rating for Warrior/Savage if I remember correctly was ***1/2 simply because the last ten minutes were just cringe worthy for me. Does this put me on the guys bad side?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Can we please just talk about CM Punk vs. Big Show from the 999th episode of RAW? Squash all beefs please.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Well I still disagree with you on the fact that the first part of the match was a mess  

But I try to respect opinions as much as I can and I dont insult people when they disagree with me


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

TheGMofGods said:


> Hell I said in another thread that I didn't care at all for Bryan/Regal from WWE Superstars.


to be fair that was largely underwhelming and was like 1/20th of how good it should have been. I wasn't big on most of Bryan's TV work during that part of 2011. 


FWIW I think I'd give Austin/Angle around ****1/4 as well. That's another match I've always liked less than everybody else. Hell, first time I watched it I didn't even like it at all. I do think it's awesome now but probably wouldn't make my top ten WWE matches of the 2000s let alone all time.



TheGMofGods said:


> People also tend to forget that, like I said before, I've done pro wrestling before. I'm not just a "fan", I'm a critic as well.


you have to be a wrestler to be a ''critic''? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here but it comes off as kind of elitist.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Can we please just talk about CM Punk vs. Big Show from the 999th episode of RAW? Squash all beefs please.


let's talk about Tajiri being the best wrestler of all time in the year 2000 instead.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Other than the ignorance he spews regarding The Rock, I don't really have a problem with gmofgods. Over-analyzing the shit out of everything like that does take the fun away for me, though.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Can we please just talk about CM Punk vs. Big Show from the 999th episode of RAW? Squash all beefs please.


A shit match that consisted of ten thousand running knees on the corner. Happy now?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Lol CM Punk. Who is that guy?

There, shifted focus. Better?

unk 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

TheGMofGods said:


> *People also tend to forget that, like I said before, I've done pro wrestling before. I'm not just a "fan", I'm a critic as well. I don't just look at major aspects, the little things play a large part in making a match great for me.*
> 
> Edit: Oh wait I forgot to mention, my star rating for Warrior/Savage if I remember correctly was ***1/2 simply because the last ten minutes were just cringe worthy for me. Does this put me on the guys bad side?










This is rich

I Dont Give a Flying Fuck who you are, your opinion is no better/shittier than most on this site. I"m about to put most of you on ignore Good Lord. Opinions are opinions and some are different WE ESTABLISHED that 4 pgs ago, stop asking him questions about what matches he likes or doesnt, nobody cares at all. 

WE ALL get you dont like Warrior/Savage, HBK/taker wm 26, and angle/taker. Move on you dont have to keep telling us on and on and on and writing essays on the "Aspects of Pro Wrestling" I dont need you to tell me what is good and not fuck off

Cjacks, Smitty, atf and a few on that last 4 pgs, leave him be, let him obsess over Storytelling and give HHH/Bryan ****************************


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> you have to be a wrestler to be a ''critic''? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here but it comes off as kind of elitist.


What I meant was that since I've at least done it before, I can't just look at a match from a fan standpoint. I'll mark out like crazy when I see guys like Daniel Bryan win the world title at Mania but apart from that, I just can't look at a match from a fan standpoint. It's kind of like being a camera man at your school, and then when you watch a sports game, all you think about is which guy is playing the same role you're playing. I don't know, it's really hard to describe. I do admit I did a terrible job of wording that, but I really don't know how else to word it.

Just got done watching the Austin/Benoit match. I liked it. In fact I actually liked it a lot. I liked how they played to Benoit's intensity but also focused on the fact that he wanted to win the world title. He absolutely punished Austin, went for numerous crossfaces, he wanted that championship bad and had no intentions of letting up on the guy. I actually liked that. I wasn't a big fan of the sharpshooting spot where they kept reversing, simply because it felt like it was beginning to drag on. But it wasn't anything bad.

But I'll just go right to the 8 german suplex's spot. I liked it. And here's why. Benoit was in a really bad spot. Nothing he was doing was working and Austin had the advantage on him, hell the guy had just suplexed him onto the announce table twice with Benoit having bad ribs. In a situation where he could actually keep Austin in his grasp and be able to do damage, he resorted to doing a lot of german suplex's, which I really liked. Austin kept trying to escape and Benoit held on and kept hitting the move. Here I felt like it was necessary. It was Benoits only chance of survival. When Angle did it, I just don't know, it felt so unnecessary. It was out of no where and I just felt like they were stalling at that point. I have no problem with repeating moves if it makes sense and serves a purpose. I mean every move serves a purpose, but there's a difference between that and simply stalling for time, which is a very common thing in Pro Wrestling and something I felt was happening there.

The thing that did it for me though was that Benoit played the face role incredibly well, and Austin played the heel role incredibly well too, and I simply love these matches especially when they are done right. ****1/2. Thanks for showing me that guys, I enjoyed it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah any Tajiri 2000 ppv matches you can recommend? I've seen Tajiri vs Psycosis but thats it


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I want you guys to know, I've been highly entertained in reading the last couple pages in here. WOW. 

Curently typing out a review for EC 2014. Talk about a hit or miss show.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Good lord the walls of text

Do people really think Wyatts vs Shield III is equal to I?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

If Punk/Show was just a bunch of running knees, then Benoit matches are just a bunch of chops and german suplexes. Let's not trivialize before we make fools out of ourselves.

TAJIRI/CORINO


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Lol @ the rant from Skins. That was gold. I don't think you should try to discuss things you simply don't understand.

Does anyone have any match recommendations in regards to the ones like HHH/Bryan and Austin/Benoit, where the face plays the role of being dominant and the heel plays the cowardly role and doesn't really look strong during the match and takes other ways around the corner to gain an advantage? One that isn't famous btw?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> If Punk/Show was just a bunch of running knees, then Benoit matches are just a bunch of chops and german suplexes. Let's not trivialize before we make fools out of ourselves.


Chops & German Suplexes >>>>>>>>>> Running Knees. No debate on that one.

The match in my sig consists of little more than a million suplex variations exchanged and three awesome high spots, but it's still an awesome match. (fuck what you think, Yeah )


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

TheGMofGods said:


> Lol @ the rant from Skins. That was gold. I don't think you should try to discuss things you simply don't understand.
> 
> Does anyone have any match recommendations in regards to the ones like HHH/Bryan and Austin/Benoit, where the face plays the role of being dominant and the heel plays the cowardly role and doesn't really look strong during the match and takes other ways around the corner to gain an advantage? One that isn't famous btw?


That sounds like every match I've ever seen from Ric Flair in the '80s... and '90s.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Thinking about putting my love of Pro Wrestling to the ultimate test. King of the Ring 1995. Fully expect to lose any type of sanity I have.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Its not worth it bro

Im watching Canadian Stampede atm...AWESOME so far


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WWE Elimination Chamber 2014

**Intercontinental Championship
*Big E. Langston (c) vs. Jack Swagger - *** 1/4

*WWE Tag Team Championship
*The New Age Outlaws (c) vs. The Usos - **

Titus O'Neil vs. Darren Young - * 1/2

The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family - **** 1/4

*Divas Championship
*AJ Lee(c) vs. Cameron - * 1/4

Batista vs. Alberto Del Rio - *

*WWE World Heavyweight Championship - Elimination Chamber
*Randy Orton (c) vs. John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus vs. Christian vs. Cesaro - *** 3/4

- Hell of an opener! I don't wanna say Swagger carried Langston, but he definitely outworked him. Big E still shows signs of being green with his timing issues and lapses in execution. Swagger was there every step of the way to pick up the slack though. Loved how well they put over the ankle lock by both having Swagger lock it in for an extended period of time and fighting off Lansgton, then showing how strong Big E. is in finally powering out of it. Strong match, good stuff.

- NAO/Usos was good enough for filler I guess. Billy Gunn looked sloppy and slow. Usos brought the excitement. Honestly have no idea why the hell the Rhodes Bros even dropped the belts to begin with.

- I didn't care at all about the battle of the PTPs. It reminded me way too much of when Cryme Tyme broke up and they turned Shad heel. No one cared and they still don't here.

- I didn't think the first several minutes of Shield/Wyatts was anything special, but once Rollins reversed that top rope suplex and landed on his feet, the crowd blew up and the match was taken to another level. I was highly impressed with Luke Harper in this one. Guy is such a beast (but I've known it since the days of Brodie Lee). Character work from everyone involved was excellent. I'm not sure if it was by design or not, but it really seemed like Harper & Rowan were doing everything in their power to keep Wyatt out of harm's way. It came off like Bray would step in and do some beat downs, but when things got messy the two big boys would step in and do the dirty work to protect their leader. Absolutely awesome last few minutes of pure chaos. The nonchalant destruction of Rollins through the announce table was wonderful, followed by what seemingly felt like a passing of the torch for a new stable taking over. The Wyatts are here to stay.

- Wtf was the next two matches? A Divas title match with a completely unnecessary dq finish and another horrible showing from Batista. At least the crowd made it somewhat watchable.

- The Chamber was a bit of a mixed bag, but mostly good stuff. The initial exchanges between Sheamus & Cesaro were really awkward as it never seemed like they were on the same page and all they wanted to do was throw uppercuts, but for some reason as the match continued it became more and more like they just wanted to beat the hell out of each other at any length. Whatever it was, it evolved into something that was pretty awesome to watch. Christian had a good showing in what very well may be his last true main event contest. I liked how they didn't shit on anyone by having them eliminated early and all 6 guys had their time to to shine (except for Orton, he didn't do much). Cesaro took full advantage of that and honestly carried the match to new levels. He was able to put together moves and sequences we'd never seen before in the Chamber or even in a main event match. I liked all the creativity they had involving the pods as well. Cena's elimination of Cesaro was honestly the best thing they could've put together for him that wouldn't make him look weak. In the final few minutes I got really annoyed with the amount of overbooking and interference as I thought they killed what momentum they had going, but they luckily picked it back up in a major way when Bryan kicked out of the first RKO. Gave you that glimmer of hope that he was FINALLY gonna pull out the big win... before they destroyed us again. Good main event. Total hit or miss show. Luckily they gave you the three good matches at the beginning, middle, and end. Everything else can completely be skipped.​


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Shield/Wyatts is still my MOTY. Fucking love that thing and had it at ****3/4 on last watch. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> That sounds like every match I've ever seen from Ric Flair in the '80s... and '90s.


And part of the reason why Flair is the GOAT.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> Yeah any Tajiri 2000 ppv matches you can recommend? I've seen Tajiri vs Psycosis but thats it


I had to look at Wikipedia because I'm awful with ECW PPVs (I think I've only watched two full ones), and they only had 7 shows in 2000. Might as well try to remember all of them:

-Guilty as Charged: Tajiri/Super Crazy v. Lynn/Guido: I honestly don't have a big memory of this, but Tajiri v. Guido is always awesome so it has to be at least somewhat good. 
-Living Dangerously: wasn't on this show!?
-Hardcore Heaven: Tajiri v. Corino: Awesome, awesome match. Not really ''great'' to me, but a really good revengeful extended squash match with Corino obviously blading like a psycho. It's where your sig GIF comes from, actually, too. Make sure to watch the mic work before it, as well. Tajiri grins like a mastermind and Corino calls him a ''slant-eyed bastard'' or something equally racist.
-Heat Wave: Tajiri v. Psicosis v. Whipwreck v. Guido: Yeah, don't remember this. :lmao I mean I remember IT, I remember it happening and I remember having watched it, but nothing more.
-Anarchy Rulz: Tajiri/Whipwreck v. the FBI: These guys had a good few matches together and all are good, IIRC. This is probably like the 4th best one, though. That's just a random guess, I only remember a couple in specifics.
-Novmeber to Remember; Tajiri/Whipwreck v. the FBI: This one is twice as long and I'm pretty sure is better than the one from AR. Not as good as their best fancam match, but it's still these two teams.
-Massacre on 34th Street: Tajiri/Whipwreck v. Crazy/Kid Kash: The fuck? Wiki says this goes almost twenty minutes and I swear I don't remember it. This one I can honestly say I'm not positive I even watched.

Most of Tajiri's (and ECW's, I guess) best stuff happens on Hardcore TV or from fancams. His best match on PPVs is v. Corino and that might not even be one of his 5 best matches that year. I put all of the 2000 Tajiri I could find on discs one day a while ago and it came to like 40 matches. Don't remember a single one not being at least ''fun''. There are a million good death match nutfests with Super Crazy, sprints with guys like Rhino, Lynn, and Corino, and the awesome Tajiri/Guido/Crazy 4/14/00 which I think is easily the best US three-way of all time.



Choke2Death said:


> The match in my sig consists of little more than a million suplex variations exchanged and three awesome high spots, but it's still an awesome match. (fuck what you think, Yeah )


Well....the commentary's awesome, sat least.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Alright I'll look up some of the stuff he had on TV 

I really hope they keep uploading ECW TV's to the network, the 1993-1994 ones aren't really that great as it was still under the NWA banner and Heyman wasn't booking yet, but I assume they will add them all at some point along with ECW on TNN. 

Speaking of the network, they uploaded the SD with Taker/Batista cage match, might watch that after this ppv im watching ends


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Shield/Wyatts is still my MOTY. Fucking love that thing and had it at ****3/4 on last watch.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I definitely liked it but I had a hard time seeing what everyone else apparently has. As noobish as this may sound, I think it needed more (or any) nearfalls to catapult it to that level for me. Awesome match nonetheless, but I'd probably have it slated with the Shield's match against Team Hell No & Kofi from RAW in terms of quality. Love, love, love that one.



TheGMofGods said:


> And part of the reason why Flair is the GOAT.


No disputing that.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The chaos that ensues in those Shield/Wyatt matches (really most Shield matches) makes me so giddy. The Main Event match came through in that regard. 

Corey, did you see Mania? Don't remember if you said you had or not.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> I really hope they keep uploading ECW TV's to the network, the 1993-1994 ones aren't really that great as it was still under the NWA banner and Heyman wasn't booking yet, but I assume they will add them all at some point along with *ECW on TNN.*


yeah, that's what I meant, not Hardcore TV. Or both. I don't know, I'm pretty friggin worthless with ECW shows and such.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KingLobos said:


> Do people really think Wyatts vs Shield III is equal to I?


No, but it was great and better than II.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Shield vs. Hell No & Ryback TLC I also have at ****3/4 and it has stayed there through many watches. I need to watch the Wyatt tag a couple more times to see if it stays there but at worst it will be ****1/2. I love it too much to go any lower lol. I can't wait to watch Mania back and see how everything came across on TV. Hopefully a lot of stuff goes up so I can officially proclaim it as the GOAT mania 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> yeah, that's what I meant, not Hardcore TV. Or both. I don't know, I'm pretty friggin worthless with ECW shows and such.


ECW on TNN was from 8/27/99 to 10/6/2000, I assume anything before and after(only like 4-5 months) was considered Hardcore TV which means it was just syndicated on late night TV


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> The chaos that ensues in those Shield/Wyatt matches (really most Shield matches) makes me so giddy. The Main Event match came through in that regard.
> 
> Corey, did you see Mania? Don't remember if you said you had or not.


I got home from work (fucking store meeting on a sunday night, the night of Wrestlemania???) right near the end of Cena/Wyatt, so I caught everything after that. Lesnar/Taker never got out of first gear I thought. Nothing really matters other than the ending though. Main event was balls fucking awesome. Gave it **** on first watch. So ultimately I've only seen 3 matches in full counting the Divas things. I'll be watching the full show on the network soon. Need to get through NXT Arrival first.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just watched IYH 16: Canadian Stampede 

HHH/Foley: ****

Taka/Sasuke: ****

Vader/Taker: ***3/4 

tag: ****3/4 

What a show :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

By all means, watch Arrival. Cesaro/Zayn is glorious (better than the 2/3 falls match imo), and the main event is pretty solid. There's stuff in between, I think. I fainted for 90 minutes after Cesaro/Zayn.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts on Bryan/H.

I'm actually watching the main event for the first time since Mania. That Burn in My Light tease before Voices was pretty cool. Looking forward to this.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

King of the Ring 1993


*Bret Hart vs. Razor Ramo*n

I really liked this a lot. Bret tries to keep Razor on the match for as long as possible because if the match isn’t on the mat Bret would be in a lot of trouble. There was nothing flashy about Bret’s offense but it was smart and showed a really obvious purpose. Razor is eventually able to break free of the mat attack and he gets in plenty of his power moves when he takes control of the match. Bret’s comeback was really good and there was a great nearfall in the match. It was short but it was smart and exciting. Given the talent in the ring you got the good match you wer expecting. 
****½* 


*Mr. Perfect vs. Mr. Hughes w/Harvey Wippleman*

This was OK I guess. There was some really good cat and mouse stuff early on in the match that was a lot of fun to watch. Perfect tried to keep the pace up for a while but this eventually developed into a Hughes control segment. I won’t say it was good but I guess it wasn’t the worst thing ever. Hughes does deserve a lot of credit because he sold for Perfect when he started getting in some offense. Hughes was much bigger and was feuding with the Undertaker, I don’t think he had to take back drops and hip tosses from Perfect but he did. Ending was also pretty dumb. There was enough good here thought to make it watchable and even the botch was just hilarious.
**3/4 *


*Hacksaw Jim Duggan vs. Bam Bam Bigelow *

Duggan actually was kicking some serious ass when this started but he ended up hurting his ribs which played a big part of the match. The match wasn’t too long but I would say it’s on the “good” side of big man brawls and it was a fun watch.
**1/4


Tatanka vs. Lex Luger

The way the time limit worked was really strange and I feel like it really hurt the match. They didn’t inform the wrestlers or the crowd how much time was left so there was a sense of urgency while watching the match because the commentators were saying how much time was left but Luger and Tatanka didn’t know this. It was still pretty solid but it could have easily been a lot better. 
***½* 


*Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect*

I think you could watch this match 10 times in a row without getting bored with it. When you take into account that these two were not feuding with each other and this was basically just a match that two guys just wanted to win this is a masterpiece. They start out doing some amazing technical stuff in the ring and the match was almost perfectly even. What followed was a slow escalation in intensity with Perfect doing more and more heelish things until you were watching a serious fight and you were totally engrossed in the match. This was so close to absolute perfection. The selling, the pacing, the escalating intensity there just isn’t anything more than you can ask for. It’s a shame that the ending was bad (Perfect’s shoulder was clearly not on the mat when he got pinned and it was the shoulder that was on the camera side) but other than that bad part there really isn’t anything bad I can say about this. 

I feel like I could watch this a few more times and pick up different things that I loved about the match. Perfect is just the man here. Not to take away from Hart but Perfect just had a great performance. I don’t think he was really a heel going into the match but he basically had to play a heel here but did so in a believable way that didn’t destroy him as a face after this match. He would hold the ropes open for Bret and kick him in the gut as soon as he got in the ring. Another great moment was Perfect going after the injured fingers for the first time all match when Hart was about to lock in the Sharpshooter. I really got the impression that he didn’t want to go for it but when put in a spot between going after the fingers and losing he went after the fingers. At the risk of sounding corny I have to say that his performance was absolutely perfect. 
*****½* 


_WWF Championship Match:_
*Hulk Hogan(c) w/Jimmy Hart vs. Yokozuna w/Mr. Fuji*

This is just your standard Hogan vs. A Monster match but at least the monster was better than most. Yokozuna was able to keep the pace up more than you would expect and he really had some amazing looking offense. The ending was pretty shocking at the time and was the end of Hulkamania in the WWF for a while. It’s usually all about Hogan overcoming all the odds but he didn’t do that here. Granted we didn’t get a clean finish but the fact remains that Hogan was beat by one of the monsters that he would normally vanquish. The match itself was solid, there are plenty of matches that he’s had with monsters that were a lot worse and not that many that were better. 
***¾ *


*The Steiner Brothers and The Smoking Gunns vs. Money Inc. and The Headshrinkers *

I’m pretty sure this was just a breather for the crowd after Hogan dropping the title. There is nothing about this match that stands out in the slightest. I watched the match and I’m struggling to say exactly what happened. The Steiners kicking ass at first was fun enough and there really wasn’t anything wrong with the match either.
**½ *


_Intercontinental Championship Match:_
*Shawn Michaels(c) w/Diesel vs. Crush
*
I can see how valuable Nash was to Shawn at this point in his career. I’m not sure if Crush sold any offense from Shawn until Nash got involved in the match and let Shawn start his control segment. The match was fun enough. Shawn flying around like crazy for a big guy is always a blast to watch and it I do enjoy watching him play a heel once in a while. I wish they had made Shawn look just a little stronger because he really looked weak against Crush since it took a lot of involvement from his manager and a Doink distraction for him to win. I guess it all worked out for him in the end though… Solid match.
***½ *


_King of the Ring Finals_
*Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow *

The story writes itself here. Bret has had two gruelling matches while Bigelow only had one quick match against Duggan. Bret’s leg is still messed up from Mr. Perfect and Bigelow appears to be near 100%. Exactly what you would expect to happen does as Bret gets his ass kicked for a long time. I did love the brief signs of life that he would show but overall he looked to be in a lot of trouble for most of the match. At this point I just want to ask if anybody in the world hits the corner better than Bret? It’s amazing how painful he makes it look every single time. Bret’s selling was also perfect here. Even though Bigelow didn’t work the leg (he didn’t really need to and just beating the shit out of Bret seemed more fitting for his character) Bret didn’t forget that it was injured either. 

As much as I loved the match it still had one of my biggest pet peeves in wrestling; when the match restarts. I don’t care how it happens I hate it when the ref counts to 3 and the match gets restarted. The reason for it was just absurd. Luna Vachon just ran out to ringside, softly hit Bret with a chair, and ran away. Bam Bam won a minute or so later but apparently that one shot after 10 minutes of getting a beatdown was enough to get the match restarted. Why the match was restarted and Bam Bam wasn’t just DQed I have no idea. Anyway, enough complaining about the restart, the rest of this was pretty great as it’s just a fantastic underdog performance from Bret and Bam Bam looked like a great heel. A fitting ending to an amazing performance from Bret Hart. 
****¾*​

Overall Bret Hart was amazing and the rest of the matches were easy enough to sit through so I could see more Bret Hart.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SKINS is the best.

as is Austin vs Angle SummerSlam 2001.

and Punker vs Big Show from post-MITB, I do believe, is indeed totally wonderful.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

KOTR 1993 :mark:

Best show of the NGE for WWF probably, unless you count IYH 16


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm too lazy to count. what is IYH 16 by name? Canadian Stampede is randomly my guess b/c it's a top show. Although it isn't "new generation" as far as crummy era talk goes.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Survivor Series 1995


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SSeries 1995 does rule. could have been even better had Goldust vs Triple B been as good as it should have been. Or at least good to begin w/.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah Canadian stampede, assumed you guys would know since I just put my ratings on the last page 

Ive only seen Bret/Diesal from SVS 95 I think


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Underdogs vs Bodydonnas opener is legit. Def should watch that. Wild Card match is good too, even if the gimmick is kind of dumb. But that's what happens when you book a main event w/two babyfaces.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Alright I'll try to watch the show sometime this week, any excuse to rewatch that Nash/Bret match

Here's a topic, whats the better Bret/Nash match? RR or SVS, I'd go with SVS personally


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

King Of The Ring 94 is better than both.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Alas, Craig goes w/the mention of the one I have zero memory on. Other than it not ending clean. Well, Rumble didn't either. But, yeah.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'll need to watch the KOTR match as I didnt even know it existed :lol

How is HBK vs Austin KOTR 97? Better than the disappointing mania match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

iirc a good bit seem to be high on it. For me, I've never personally cared. Too long & it just fizzles out and it's over for some reason.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hmm, will need to check it out eventually, card doesnt seem that good outside of that and H/foley, although Taker/Farooq sounds like it could be OK


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

yeah, it's not a special show. 1997 in a nutshell, tbhayley. Foley starting the program w/Trips is def the highlight. Unfortunately I'm left w/no real opinion on Undertaker vs Faarooq and I dunno why. Remember their RAW match in Feb 100x more than the PPV bout.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hmm, on the main event of NM 2008 right now, not sure what to watch next, I'll browse around, pissed off that WWE keeps recycling the same shit on the live stream fpalm


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's why we should be happy that it isn't a real "channel", but available to pick and choose what we want. :sansa


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

IK but sometimes your lazy as fuck and want them to choose for you , though they did show Spring Stampede 1994 the other day, that was cool.

I remembered I dislike the main event of NM 2008 and decided to watch Vengeance 2003


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A tremendous choice to go w/. Or choosing Spring Stampede 1994 again would have been even better. b/c, there are never enough times to watch that goldmine.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

In Your House I

I know this wasn’t good time period for the WWF but it has a special place for me because it took place at the point where I just barely remember it. Like I know I watched Superstars on Saturday morning and I remember the “Over 50 Years of Sports Entertainment” that they would start everything with. That’s all I remember so I usually enjoy going back and watching wrestling from this time period. It’s like watching new episodes of your favorite show from when you were 4 or 5 years old. 



*Bret Hart vs. Hakushi w/Shinja*

Great opener. It’s not a classic or anything but the pacing was great, Hakushi did all sorts of cool offense, and Bret sold well. This is just an easy match to sit back and watch. There wasn’t anything super compelling here as Hakushi didn’t have a focus of his offense when he was in control but he mostly made up for it because all of his moves looked so cool. The match is a ton of fun and served it’s purpose. I feel like they could have done more here if they were in a situation with more of a feud but for two guys just having a match they did a really good job.
****½ *



*Jeff Jarrett and The Roadie vs. Razor Ramon*

Shit, this was really good. Hall was just the man here. His selling was spot on and his offense looked brutal. I also loved how Jarrett and the Roadie worked together as a team. This was Roadie’s first match so he was clearly the lesser partner. Jarrett worked most of the match but whenever he needed a breather he would tag in the Roadie. The match structure itself was really interesting because it was sort of like a southern tag but Hall had nobody to tag. It was frustrating (in a good way) that whenever he would get in offense and even things up a tag would just be made and he would be on trouble all over again. The pacing was great throughout and the ending was really satisfying. The match was smartly worked and I really enjoyed it. I did not expect this to be so good. 
****¼ *



*Mabel w/Mo vs. Adam Bomb*

I think this only lasted 2 minutes but it was actually really fun. Adam Bomb was throwing himself over the top rope onto the floor, Mabel is doing spinning dive kicks to the face, and Mabel is taking big bumps onto the floor. For 2 minutes I really don’t think this could have been much better. A blast to watch. This is probably pretty high on my list for best matches under 2 minutes (if I had such a list). 
****



_WWF Tag Team Championship Match:_
*Owen Hart and Yokozuna(c) w/Jim Cornette and Mr. Fuji vs. The Smoking Gunns*

Owen and Yokozuna make a really fun team. Yokozuna was able to come into the ring and be a badass in short spurts and tag out before getting gassed. The match was quick paced, Owen was great obviously, and Yokozuna in short spurts was just amazing. The Gunns weren’t anything special but they played passable faces against a heel team that I really liked. Another solid match.
***½ *



*Bret Hart vs. Jerry Lawler *

Not much to talk about here really. A good beatdown by Bret for a few minutes before a screwjob ending. The whole point of this match was to build up for another match between Bret and Lawler. I realize I haven’t said much but there really isn’t much to say.
**½ *



_WWF Championship Match:_
*Sycho Sid w/Ted DiBiase vs. Big Daddy Cool Diesel(c)*

I have to say that the first couple minutes of this match were actually very good. Nash got in a lot of offense and it was was just fun to see Sid sell for a guy that matched him in size. At this point I was hoping that we were going to get this awesome 10 minute slugfest between them but instead there was some interference and Sid took control of the match. Now I give Sid credit for his control segment. It really made me want to see Nash’s comeback. Unfortunately that’s because the control segment was boring and Nash on offense was actually pretty interesting. So Sid’s control segment really hurt the match. The only good thing about it was that his power moves did at least look a lot more impressive because of who he was doing them to. I also found his taunting to be pretty amusing as well. Nash’s comeback was very brief but it did feature a really impressive Jack Knife Powerbomb onto Sid, it looked effortless and looked amazing on someone Sid’s size. I really wanted to like this match and for the first couple minutes I really was liking the match. The problem was that I just wanted the to go to war and that clearly wasn’t the plan here. The match was passable but annoying because I saw a way that they could have actually had a really good match.
***½ *​

If I remember correctly I remember people saying that this was one of the worst PPVs ever. I totally disagree. No it’s not a great show but it was 1 hour and 40 minutes long and was really easy to watch. Most of the matches were quick and they were all watchable. I won’t complain about this at all.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yes, SS 94 is fabulous, but I have never seen this show before and its on my top priority list along with No mercy from this year. No idea why I havent seen it tho. 

I might rewatch SS 94 tomorrow, but FL 2000 is a top priority to get the review done so I can do Backlash Monday and be done with 2000 ppvs before I go on Vacation Tuesday


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yay praise for the Razor handicap match. That's good stuff. Only different on that review is I'd go higher on Bret/Hakushi opinion wise. But it really isn't bad of a show. The ones later in the year are much worse. Heck, KOTR following IYH #1 takes the cake.

Spring Stampede 1994 & Fully Loaded 2000. Well, both are strong so you got that going for you. Although I know which I happen to prefer. Still, FL 2000, def a reason why it gets the praise it does. Main event is so cherry. Don't sleep on the ultra FUN-ness that are the first three matches too.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah Im still debating whether to finish 2000 ppv reviews with FL or BL, Cal told me BL, so until anyone tells me differently, I'll take his advice. 

Eddie/Benoit was awesome, I dont understand how you dont like it Cody


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Backlash has Benoit vs Jericho which owns. Main event is silly, but MEGA hot. So there's that. I haven't rewatched the rest since the air date. Wait, Eddie/Rios I've seen w/the other two recently. That was fine and stuff. Nothing more, nothing less.

I made my post that eloquently explained what I don't like about it about...oh two threads ago. If I can find it, i'll use that to describe it. But that match is so mediocre.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Malenko/Scotty is a match I remember liking a good bit


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Might be just bias, but I thought Taker vs Show & A-Train was really good (***1/2), Taker appeared an underdog because of the two giants before him and think that turned off most people cause it's unusual see Taker in such a role. If it was say a Shawn Michaels in the ring with the two and it went exactly as seen, heavenly praising is all it would get. 

I liked Taker's no underestimation attitude, just on the prowl constantly. The opposition were just that, more methodical, cocky, it does transition though when Taker shows life.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember liking it too, but I was told recently that it kind of lacks something b/c it goes through the same work under Malenko vs Mysterio from GAB '96. Some pointless arm work that does nothing for the match except to fill time. I trust my brother's opinion wholeheartedly, but I still have to see it for myself to be sure. Just a bit deflated after hearing something negative when my memory is quite sparkling to say the least.

You're not alone. I've always felt Undertaker vs Show/A-Train is a very good match. Dunno why it's not held in the same regard from most, but no biggie. I'll just love it as much as I do. (Y)


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

HayleySabin's opinion of a match instantly and universally makes it bad/good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Apparently Eddie vs Benoit Vengeance 2003 will be the lone exception to the fact. :side:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah you'd be wrong about that one


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Would that be bad or good? I've got the impression that match is liked by most and loved by some.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah he dislikes the match for some insane reason

I watched it like 90 mins ago and loved it


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

We should elect an expert judging panel to tell us all what we should and shouldn't like wrestling wise, that way the DVD thread hivemind shall fully co-exist!

Or not, fuck it, I'm gonna go watch TLC 09 because for some odd reason I feel like it.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> Malenko/Scotty is a match I remember liking a good bit


It's Scotty's best match, quite possibly the best match ever held for the Light Heavyweight Championship, and I'd actually say it was the match of the night.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Its not the match of the night imo, but I agree with you on the other 2 things


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> Its not the match of the night imo, but I agree with you on the other 2 things


I like it more than Benoit/Jericho and Rock/Triple H, but I can absolutely understand why someone would pick either of those as MOTN. They're all so close in quality that I'd hardly be able to even disagree.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Craig you better do a review on that crap show you're going to put on. :sansa


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

How could one not love the classic Batista/Taker chairs match?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Watch that TAJIRI/TAKA match I posted few pages back, you cocksuckers.




*CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy rivalry:*

- The Bash 2009 ****
- Night of Champions 2009 ****
- SummerSlam 2009 ****1/4
- SmackDown 2009/8/28 ****1/2

Honestly, of the greatest WWE feuds ever. What two other guys have FOUR great matches in their rivalry? Two, maybe (BIG maybe) three feuds come to mind, but that's about it. I remember watching SmackDown actively in 2009, and got fucking annoyed when these two started their feud, it really made SD look like a cruiserweight brand, or something, but I also remember being left in awe because of match and promo quality. They really caught me off guard with the chemistry. All four matches have an impeccable character work displayed by Punk, particularly in the first two, the last two were more about taking things to the next level and punishing your opponent. The first two have some really cool cruiserweight sequences that were not much behind the Jericho/Mysterio feud running at the same time. And goddamn it, Hardy is a fucking bump machine. Hardy's by far greatest rivalry, of course, and it would be Punk's undeniable No. 1 too, but his stuff with Samoe Joe is just TOO GOOD, even for this. I rate this above his Cena rivalry, comfortably and with ease. To sum up, this was a glorious feud, it was nice to revisit it, got reminded on good old days when I still bothered to watch WWE on a regular basis.


*WWE 2009 Top 5 revisited:*

1. Jericho vs. Mysterio (The Bash) ****1/2
2. Hardy vs. Punk (SmackDown 8/28) ****1/2
3. Raw Elimination Chamber ****1/2
4. Punk vs. Hardy (SummerSlam) ****1/4
5. Michaels vs. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 25) ****1/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm never been one to watch full TV season sets, but I've been wanting to try and do it for years with WCW Nitro's and PPV'S from 95-98. Has anyone else done this undertaking?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Punk/Jeff actually had FIVE major matches - the first being the MITB cash-in at Extreme Rules 8*D

Can't believe people had a discussion on the possible best PPV of the New Generation era without mentioning Survivor Series 1996. BRET/AUSTIN. Taker/Mankind being a pretty damn entertaining brawl as expected, though I wouldn't put it over KOTR. BRET/AUSTIN. I liked the first SS elimination match tbh. BRET/AUSTIN. HBK/Sid kicked major ass, and I'm a big time Sid hater so tells you why Cocained-Up Shawn Michaels was fucking brilliant. Did I mention BRET/AUSTIN? Dat BRET/AUSTIN doe.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I liked how different WM13 and SSeries matches were, diversity in long programs is great to see especially when executed well.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I thought the story of 'Has Bret still got it' was played out great in that match, and I love it just much as the WM13 match tbh.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Big Pete (Jul 23, 2011)

*Hitman* - I went through WCW 1996 recently. I just stuck to Monday Nitro, Clash of the Champions & the PPVs but managed to watch the odd episode of Saturday Night, Pro and Worldwide just to see what they were about.

Just like the WWE, WCW in 1996 was a year of transition and is at total odds with itself. Except unlike the WWE, WCW actually made a really good angle out of it called the nWo, you may have heard of it, and their segments still hold up relatively well. Still, for all the nWo magic, you still have to put up with the Dungeon of Doom, Teddy Long's stable of jabronis, Sonny Onoo ruining every import he's with and the terrible booking of basically all the mid-card titles with the exception of the Cruiserweight title.

If I was to hand out one pointer with these sort of projects, I'd recommend treating the television shows as white noise, only paying it your full attention when something intrigues you while letting the rest of the program soak in. You may miss out on the odd detail here or there but you won't get bogged down either by some Duggan/Wallstreet match either.

Then give the PPVs your full attention. Most of the 96 shows suck outside of Great American Bash & Fall Brawl but at least you get a sense of what the company was about back then without spending 100s of hours concentrating on it.

I'm also going through a long process of covering WWF in 1999. I've already watched through every Smackdown! & Heat episode and now I'm watching through some Shotgun Saturday just to see if 1999 had anything to offer.

Smackdown! had it's moments, but usually only if it involved Val Venis or the Hardyz. Heat was treated like the pre-show to Raw and would usually be more about the in-ring promos than actual matches which for the most part lasted mere minutes. It wasn't until Smackdown came on board that it became watchable in it's own right. Largely because the cast of characters was more consistent and they'd write mini show angles, so say one episode would be based around the Acolytes taking on the Holly Cousins for the tag belts and another would be about The Godfather facing off against Gangrel and stuff like that. Not necessarily great wrestling (although Acolytes/Holly Cousins is worth seeking out) but far more interesting than it's former format.

Then there is Shotgun. Half the show is merely syndicated Raw replays narrated by Cole/Cornette but the rest of the show is basically straight action involving low carders like the Hardyz, JOB Squad, The Brood and stuff of that nature...but they're given more freedom so you're watching them bust out all sorts of moves you wouldn't see in a regular Raw match.

I'll probably end the project at Shotgun since everyone is pretty familiar with Raw & the PPVs but it's been a fun nostalgic trip.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

June 10th Release


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

They should do a Collector's Edition with his skinny jeans as a secondary offer.

Stupidity aside, if anything, this should contain the HIAC w/Trips, the entire Taker feud (even the Chairs match, even though it sucked) and both SSlam and LMS w/Cena. Maybe the HBK Stretcher match too. Other than that, nothing else for me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Batista set = NO BUYS

What is this New Generation Era? I've never heard anyone use that term before in my life.



SMITTY said:


> I'll need to watch the KOTR match as I didnt even know it existed :lol
> 
> How is HBK vs Austin KOTR 97? Better than the disappointing mania match?


KOTR '97 is the better match imo. **** for that one. If both those two were healthy and they had a clean finish, no doubt they'd be able to create something wonderful.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Batista set = NO BUYS
> 
> *What is this New Generation Era? I've never heard anyone use that term before in my life.
> *
> ...


1992-1997. Basically the Bret/Shawn era.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

The Hitman said:


> I'm never been one to watch full TV season sets, but I've been wanting to try and do it for years with WCW Nitro's and PPV'S from 95-98. Has anyone else done this undertaking?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Slowly. In April 96.

I absolutely adored the Dungeon of Doom stuff. It's not quality. Or even good. But it's so fun to watch. The pre-Halloween Havoc 95 promos inside the Dungeon of Doom would probably crack as one of my favourite promos, as would Hulk Hogan going 'dark'. Just fun. Fun fun fun. Sting & Luger stuff is weird. But I can tolerate Luger so I don't mind it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ahhh the NEW GENERATION. I grew up with that. Awesome times. HBK, Bret, Razor, Diesel, Kid, Owen, Yoko, SID, Bulldog, Vader, Mankind and of course UNDERTAKER. Yeah there was some shit during that time, but as a kid those guys all rocked my world and I can sit through those Raw's etc far easier than say Raw 2003 lol.

Gonna start JD 04 today. EDDIE VS JBL :mark:. If the match is as good as my memory keeps telling me, I might end up throwing the full ***** at it. Was considering doing the same for Eddie/Lesnar yesterday but settled on ****3/4. Eddie/Lesnar was a tad too long imo, shave 5 minutes off and it would have been perfect. 

Gonna start working on more of those "Perfect PPV's" for my BLOG~!. Re-do 2000 based on my 2000 Rambles, then do 01, 02 and 03 now I've finished those years off too. And I can get a head start with 04 and edit it as I go along. Gotta keep the blog content flowing while I figure out how in the fuck I'm gonna get any videos done any time soon (fucking personal life shit. FUCK OFF DAMMIT).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I did myself a rewatch of *Over The Limit 2012*, here's what I thought:

Kane/Ryder - **1/2
---------------------
Battle Royal - **1/4
Air Truth/ZiggSwagg - ***1/4
Layla/Beth - *1/4
Sheamus/Orton/Jericho/ADR - ***3/4
Miz/Clay - 1/4*
Cody/Christian - ***
Punk/Bryan - ****1/2
Ryback/Camacho - DUD
Cena/Johnny - WTF

Kane/Ryder was nothing special at all, but it has its moments, with Ryder's aggressiveness and Kane's, well, awesomeness making it watchable. The Battle Royal was a typical one: a fun clusterfuck. Christian returning and winning was cool tho. The Tag Title match was actually quite good, extremely fun and with some nice sense of urgency. Layla/Beth was shockingly not bad, pretty decent in Divas standards actually. The Brodus Clay and Ryback squashes sucked ass, as expected. Cody/Christian was quite fine for a 7 minute match (even though No Way Out stomps it). The Fatal 4-Way was a brink, a BRINK away from the **** rating, but personally, maybe just 2 minutes longer it would've made it. Punk/Bryan, bar the sucky ending and some slow moments, was quite neat. Cena/Johnny can't even be properly rated because I don't even know what kind of THING that was.

Overall, pretty decent, if not pretty good, show. If only Punk/Bryan was the ME, though.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Starting FL 2000 right now :mark:

LOL this show is rated TV MA instead of TV 14, why? :lol


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Starting FL 2000 right now :mark:
> 
> LOL this show is rated TV MA instead of TV 14, why? :lol


the final two matches :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Watch that TAJIRI/TAKA match I posted few pages back, you cocksuckers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a good question, which feuds in WWE History resulted in 4 or more great matches? Off the top of my head...

1. Eddie vs Rey
-Judgement Day 2005 ****
-Smackdown 6/23/05 *****
-GAB 2005 ****
-Summerslam 2005 ****
Smackdown Cage 2005 ***1/2

Some probably aren't as high on the Summerslam match as I am, but that's okay. They also had a great match on Smackdown at the start of the year in 2005, but I'm not sure if that counts as being part of the same feud. Finally, they had ANOTHER great match back in 2004 on Smackdown for the WWE title. And then there is the WCW stuff which speaks for itself.

1. CM Punk vs John Cena
-MitB 2011 *****
-Summerslam 2011 ****
-NoC 2012 ****1/4
-Raw 2013 ****1/2

One of the best feuds of the last 5 years. Made a star out of one guy and gave the other established star the best matches he had had in YEARS.

3. Mankind vs The Undertaker
-King of the Ring 1996 ****1/2
-Summerslam 1996 **** (zip it, Cal )
-SVS 1996 ****
-IYH Buried Alive ****
-Revenge of the Taker 1997 ****1/2
-King of the Ring 1998 ****1/2

My favorite feud of all time and one of the very best feuds in WWE history IMO. Even if you don't like the boiler room brawl as much as I do, the other 5 matches speak for themselves.

4. Foley vs Triple H
-IYH Canadian Stampede ****
-Summerslam 1997 ****
-ONO 1997****
-Raw Falls Count Anywhere 1997 ****1/2
-Royal Rumble 2000 *****
-No Way Out 2000 ****1/2

Michael Francis Foley. That is all.

5. Undertaker vs Batista
WrestleMania 23 ****1/2
Backlash 2007 ****1/4
Cyber Sunday 2007 ****1/4
Hell in a Cell ****

The Undertaker man. Only he can somehow manage to get 4 great matches out of Batista.

I guess there might be more but that's all I could think of.

Edit- just remembered 1 more: Bret Hart vs Owen Hart. WM 10, SS 1994, Action Zone in White Plains NY, and Raw No Holds Barred are ALL great matches.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Ahhh the NEW GENERATION. I grew up with that. Awesome times. HBK, Bret, Razor, Diesel, Kid, Owen, Yoko, SID, Bulldog, Vader, Mankind and of course UNDERTAKER. Yeah there was some shit during that time, but as a kid those guys all rocked my world and I can sit through those Raw's etc far easier than say Raw 2003 lol.
> 
> Gonna start JD 04 today. EDDIE VS JBL :mark:. If the match is as good as my memory keeps telling me, I might end up throwing the full ***** at it. Was considering doing the same for Eddie/Lesnar yesterday but settled on ****3/4. Eddie/Lesnar was a tad too long imo, shave 5 minutes off and it would have been perfect.
> 
> Gonna start working on more of those "Perfect PPV's" for my BLOG~!. Re-do 2000 based on my 2000 Rambles, then do 01, 02 and 03 now I've finished those years off too. And I can get a head start with 04 and edit it as I go along. Gotta keep the blog content flowing while I figure out how in the fuck I'm gonna get any videos done any time soon (fucking personal life shit. FUCK OFF DAMMIT).



I felt the exact same way about Eddie/Lesnar. Trim 5 minutes off it so they don't have to do that rest hold and it would be perfection.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I actually need to watch that TAKA/Tajiri match once I'm done with Fully Loaded :mark:

Anyone else not a fan of Punk/Hardy NOC? The Bash match is the second best one of the series imo, heres what I rated them when I watched them all a few months ago 

GAB: ****
NOC: ***
SS TLC: ****
SD Cage: ****1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm not really high on any Punk/Hardy match. Been a while since I saw their cage match though. Not fond of their TLC, and honestly thought the previous 2 PPV matches were mediocre. Oh well. I'll get to them eventually once I'm up to 2009 PPV's lol.

As for feud with 4 or more great matches, you forgot HBK/Undertaker.

GZ - **** (or ****1/4 I forget)
HIAC - *************************************************************************
RR Casket - ****
WM 25 - *****
WM 26 - *****


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I'm not really high on any Punk/Hardy match. Been a while since I saw their cage match though. Not fond of their TLC, and honestly thought the previous 2 PPV matches were mediocre. Oh well. I'll get to them eventually once I'm up to 2009 PPV's lol.
> 
> As for feud with 4 or more great matches, you forgot HBK/Undertaker.
> 
> ...



I didn't forget it, I just didn't know if it would qualify since over 11 years passed between the casket match and WM 25. You're probably right though, they did reference back to the 1997 matches enough that you could consider it one feud. Also don't forget the Royal Rumble encounter in like 2007 they had, I think that plays a big role in continuing the feud.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If you wanna go down that route then you can add the 07 and 08 RR matches (final 2 in 07, first 2 in 08), and then the awesome NWO 07 tag match too lol. Either way tis AWESOME.

Got a damn entrance theme stuck in my head but I have no idea who's it is or how I'd really go about finding out lol. Pissing me the fuck off :lmao.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

You guys are obviously forgetting the epic 258 match series between Barrett and Orton


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah, I know it's pretty much just me in this thread who will acknowledge this here greatness ...Cena/Orton:

Summerslam '07 - **** 1/4 [- the retarded ending]
No Way Out '08 - ****
Breaking Point '09 [I Quit] - **** 
Bragging Rights '09 [Iron Man Match]- **** 1/2 [- uber retarded ending]

In before "lolzmostofthoselistedweresubpar/horrible."


Speaking of a series...could someone please put the HBK/Jericho '08 series in chronological order for me? I don't want to look it up, because I don't want things to get spoiled. Thanks.

You can also throw some starz at them if you want.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Judgement Day
Raw 5/26
Great American Bash
Unforgiven
No Mercy
Raw 11/10 

There's some tags sprinkled in as well along the way, but thats all the singles matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Regarding Punk/Hardy, I haven't seen one of their PPV matches, not sure which one it is. It's the one where Hardy wins the title and I thought it was boring as fuck. TLC is just decent and cage match is good, if not very good.



LilOlMe said:


> Yeah, I know it's pretty much just me in this thread who will acknowledge this here greatness ...Cena/Orton:


Came here to say this.

SummerSlam 2007: ★★★¾
No Way Out 2008: ★★★★¼
Breaking Point: ★★★★
Bragging Rights 2009: ★★★★
Raw 10/2/2014: ★★★¾


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I decided to do some history research and go look for every match at WM history featuring only HOF'ers against each other (and give dem snowflakes):

WM MATCHES BETWEEN HALL OF FAMERS
Valentine/JYD: **1/2
Andre/Studd: DUD
Hogan & Mr. T/Piper & Orndorff: **3/4
Orndorff/Muraco: 1/4*
Piper/Mr. T: DUD
Funks/JYD & Santana: ***
Harley/JYD: **1/4
Reed/Koko: DUD
Hogan/Andre: *
DiBiase/Duggan: 3/4*
Steamboat/Valentine: **
Hogan/Andre: DUD
DiBiase/Muraco: 3/4*
Andre/Roberts: DUD
Roberts/DiBiase: **3/4
Hogan/Warrior: ****
Slaughter/Hogan: ***
HBK/Santana: ***
Piper/Bret: ***3/4
Razor/Backlund: DUD
Bret/Yokozuna: ***
Yokozuna/Hogan: DUD of DUD's
HBK/Razor: ****1/4
Yokozuna/Bret: **1/2
Bret/Backlund: DUD
Bret/HBK: **1/2
Austin/Bret: *****
HBK/Austin: ***1/4
Edge/Booker: *1/4
Foley/Edge: ****1/2
HBK/Flair: ****

Wow. It's actually a much more dissapointing record than I'd ever thought.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Chismo said:


> *CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy rivalry:*
> 
> - The Bash 2009 ****
> - Night of Champions 2009 ****
> ...


Awesome to see other folks realize the brilliance of the work done by both men in this feud. More people need to watch the first two matches. Bash match reminds me of those real good matches that get underrated because they were feud advancers. Stuff like Taker/Michaels Ground Zero, Taker/Lesnar Unforgiven, and Foley/Austin Unforgiven. Soon enough, even Cal and Choke2Death will sing its praises. Night of Champions match is good too, and the other two speak for themselves.

OTL 2012 minus the main event is a very fun show. Two great world title matches, which isn't a shock considering that there really weren't any bad world title matches in 2012 PPVs except at Mania.

I'm shocked that I like Taker/Shawn casket match more than Killa Cal.

Two other combinations of wrestlers who always brought need to be mentioned. HBK/Jericho is the obvious one, but Triple H and Jeff Hardy had an uncanny chemistry together as well. Somebody go and take time out of their day to review their matches please. There's a project waiting to be chomped at the bit.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks so much, Robbie!



funnyfaces1 said:


> Awesome to see other folks realize the brilliance of the work done by both men in this feud. More people need to watch the first two matches. Bash match reminds me of those real good matches that get underrated because they were feud advancers. Stuff like Taker/Michaels Ground Zero, Taker/Lesnar Unforgiven, and Foley/Austin Unforgiven. Soon enough, even Cal and Choke2Death will sing its praises. Night of Champions match is good too, and the other two speak for themselves.
> 
> Two other combinations of wrestlers who always brought need to be mentioned. HBK/Jericho is the obvious one, but Triple H and Jeff Hardy had an uncanny chemistry together as well. Somebody go and take time out of their day to review their matches please. There's a project waiting to be chomped at the bit.


I'm gonna get to Punk/Hardy soon.

HHH/Hardy is something I'm also interested in. Maybe I'll write some reviews.

Could you put both series in chronological order, please?

I really liked Taker/Lesnar Unforgiven. I'm a sucker for matches that set the stage early, in terms of mood and presence. Loved the way Brock got up in Taker's face and shit. They played it exactly as it should have played.


_ETA:_ It's the little things that make things so great. Brock wrote in his book that after the HIAC match, it was Vince's idea for Brock to pose on top of the cell like he was "King Kong on top of the cage." Good call, because it was such a great image.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I know the finish to the Brock/Taker Unforgiven natch irks some people, but personally I still think that match is great, an excellent war esque affair.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

WM STAR RATIGZ

HHH V Bryan ****1/4
Shield killing old men *1/4 (squash match rating) *****
Battle Royal ***
Cena V Wyatt ***1/2
Lesnar V Taker ***1/2 (Takers old man, decrepit performance added to the story a lot Imo)
LOL DIVAS
DB V Orton V Bastista ****1/2 (not as well worked as the former DB match, but being in that stadium, it was the most exciting part of the show and for the second half of the match, everyone in the done was standing. Most likely is going down on a rewatch though)

Top 5 WM imo


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

lilolme HHH/Hardy NM is a must, watched that whole event last night, here are some STARZ for what I watched, didn't watch the main event because I wasnt really in the mood 

Henry/Hardy: ****
Kane/Rey: ***3/4 
Batista/JBL: ***
Show/Taker: ****
HHH/Hardy: ****1/2 

A fucking awesome event, lots like the ladder match and I just wasn't in the mood for it, think I gave it ***3/4 last time


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*** for that squash Batista/JBL? Wow, dem opinionz :heyman


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Was more than a squash, went like 5 minutes and JBL got a good bit of offense in 

less is more for those two together


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Re-watched Cesaro/Zayn IV yesterday and I have no idea why I didn't like this match on the first watch. Because I'm in love with it now. ****1/2. MOTY is still Shield/Wyatts for me though but holy shit Cesaro/Zayn is definitely in second place.

It's amazing how we're only 4 months in and the number of MOTYC in WWE is ridiculous!


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> HHH/Hardy is something I'm also interested in. Maybe I'll write some reviews.
> 
> Could you put both series in chronological order, please?


Haitch and Hardy have some chemistry. We've talked about it a ton in here, so I won't go into it at the moment. Here are the best matches of their series. 

Armageddon 2007 
Cyber Sunday 2008
No Mercy 2008
Smackdown November 21st, 2008
(I guess watch the Armageddon triple threat with Edge, also)

Check out the IC title matches in 2001, during the Power Trip run. Hardy's were pretty over and the match where Jeff beats H for the title is fun. Match is pretty easy to find online.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cal I was looking at your Fully loaded 2000 review and you completely botched the cal scale, should be 24.5 instead of 20.5 :lol

Event is :mark: so far tho


----------



## GREEK FREAK (May 17, 2012)

I just watched Fully Loaded a few weeks ago. It's a pretty good PPV. Thought HHH/Y2J was really good.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Y2J/HHH from Fully Loaded is amazing, not just very good


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

RATMAN :mark:

Yeah its a pretty awesome show, this is like my second time seeing it in full I think, on Angle/Taker right now, remember thinking it wasn't that good.

Can you imagine if Angle and Taker had a SD 03 or NWO 06 level match here? Would be in contention for one of the best shows ever


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

As usual I'll have started counting the CAL SCORE up as I went along, and somehow forgot to do it for a match or two :lmao.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> I'll need to watch the KOTR match as I didnt even know it existed :lol
> 
> How is HBK vs Austin KOTR 97? Better than the disappointing mania match?






HayleySabin said:


> *iirc a good bit seem to be high on it. For me, I've never personally cared. Too long & it just fizzles out and it's over for some reason.*


(Y) this basically, Good but way too long and just goes bland with a shaky ending. I think the thing is, the mania match is so shit that this one being better makes put think its amazing if that makes sense, a lesser of two evils


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Want to watch Flair/Steamboat 2/3 falls, but I can't find Clash of the Champions 1989 on the Network at all, which is pretty strange. Watching the Wrestle War match instead. Haven't seen this either.

40 girls lining the aisle for Flair's entrance :lmao Richie Steamboat riding in on the horse with Ricky is pretty cool. The judges in this match :mark: Lou Thesz :mark: Terry Funk :mark: Never heard of Pat O'Connor but :mark: for him too. 

Fun exchange early. Those arm drags :mark: The slap exchange :lol The way the crowd gets so fired up when Flair hits his chops, and the chop exchange is awesome. Flair's selling of Steamboat's chops is :lmao 

This arm work by Steamboat is so awesome, but mainly because Flair sells the hammer lock like death. 

Flair and Steamboat trading chops with Steamboat on the other side of the barricade railing is :mark: The Flair flop twice already in this match :lmao :lmao Steamboat countering Flair's over-the-top-rope-run-to-the-other-ring-post thing with a sick clothesline. DAMN. 

Damn, we're already at the 20 minute mark in this match. Jim Ross :lmao "These two are beating the hide off each other." Dat southern expression :lmao Jim Ross by the way is really good on commentary here, but he's nowhere near as great as he would be in about 9-10 years time. 

Obligatory leg work from Flair, which is still awesome. I like how they seque into the leg segment, which Flair basically stumbling into the rope with Steamboat on top. Flair/Steamboat trading shots while Flair has the leg extended and gets shots to the knee coupled with Steamboat hitting chops is cool exchange. Enziguiri counter :mark: Flair counters the power slam into a pin. Flair wins :mark: DA CHAMP :mark:

Flair cuts a nice promo giving credit to Steamboat. Oh wait here comes Funk. DAT CHALLENGE. Flair tells Funk he's Hollywood now, and there is a line of guys that come first. Funk attacks. I KNOW WHAT THIS LEADS TO :mark: 

Great, great match. Probably one of the greatest heel/face pairings ever. Definitely top 3. But as big of a heel that Flair was, he was so popular and so cool that you couldn't help but cheer for him, and you see it in the crowd. I will say that Flair's selling is about the best from a heel that I've seen. Steamboat's selling of the leg work is pretty amazing also. Really a great face that was super easy to cheer for. Flair getting out one final "WOO" before Steamboat hits the enziguiri at the end is :lmao Pretty cool finish as well. *****3/4*


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I have Taker vs Big Show NWO 2003 as slightly better than their CS & NM matches, it carried the show along with Brock/Benoit/(No Edge) vs WGTT.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The only flaw that I can think of for the Wrestlewar match was that Flair forgot about that arm that Steamboat spent so much time working on. I used to have the order as Wrestlewar > ChiTown Rumble > 2/3 Falls, but now it has reversed. 2/3 Falls might be best match ever. Certainly among the best in America.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah, the arm work went out the window about halfway in. Can't figure out why Clash of the Champions isn't on the Network. Cody said the same thing about it that you did.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

because none of the clashes or their matches are on the network? they will be eventually though.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Thank you, Odafin Tutuola!

Funnyfaces @ your PM - Thanks, the info helps a lot. No, I wasn't watching wrestling at all back then. I feel like I've caught up on quite a bit, yet there is so much to get caught up on. 

I do know some of the HBK/Jericho backstory, cause I watched their WM19 match and saga. Obviously I won't be able to judge the whole feud in its entirety (that's why I say that things are always better and probably more accurate, in terms of judgment, for those watching in real-time), but I can at least watch most of the matches. 

I like reading your ratings & your reviews as well, though I won't read those until I actually watch the matches (due to not wanting to be spoiled).

~~~~~~~~~


Caught up on Smackdown.

Bray Wyatt is, like, the greatest thing ever to happen in wrestling. Ok, hyperbole, but I get so sucked into his promos that it's insane. He turned that WM ending into something positive and worthwhile, and brushed it right off of his shoulders.

Surprised by how much I liked that Usos/Bryan vs. Orton/Batista/Kane six man tag. Didn't sound at all interesting to me on paper, and I generally am sick of those random six man tags.

Orton, however, seemed especially lively/fiery/vicious that night, and I liked how it built into a crescendo with Bryan & the Usos flying high. Glad that I bothered to watched. 

C2D, did you see it?

If they keep this pace & motivation up, I'll be more positive toward the whole tag-team authority thing.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Rewatched KOTR 98. Holy shit. Brought me right back to my childhood. I realized there was a lot I took for granted as a youngin. Awesome promos. Decent undercard and midcard. Shamrock was on fire. Mankind took a beating. Austin took a beating. I loved how they still used the hell in a cell in the main event, and it was moving up/down during the match: LOL. And the following Raw was amazing as well. I am loving the whole Austin/Undertaker/Kane/Mankind storyline. This is how you create a feud.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Fully loaded 2000 review 

Match#1: The Hardy Boys & Lita Vs T & A & Trish*

FAP FAP FAP to Lita AND Trish, this is like the best of both worlds in terms of UBER hotness. Anyways I remember this match being :mark: worthy and it being one of the best matches of the night outside of the obvious two matches at the end. I really hope I end up liking the cage match too. Awesome brawl early on, just a ton of fun and the crowd seems really into the match which is awesome because all these guys are AWESOME workers, ok maybe not Test but hes still good, but his tag partner is an amazing big man that steals all his thunder . Match gets even more fun and then LITA TAKES HER SHIRT OFF :mark: this has automatically made the rating for this match skyrocket :lol. Match is fucking fantastic, some awesome nearfalls and Trish is SUCH a good heel, I love it. WE WANT PUPPIES CHANT :mark: I agree Dallas. Match is just a fantastic masterpiece of FUN, I loved it, classic AE tag match right here. The women held their own in this match too, which also bumped my rating a bit. ****1/2 

CAL SCALE: 3 

Match #2: Tazz vs Al Snow* 

An Al Snow singles match on ppv in 2000? Well I like Al Snow so this should be fun. Meh, wasn’t a huge fan of this match, it was fine in parts, but then REALLY boring in some other parts, these guys are both ECW alum so they should know by now that rest holds aren’t really their style. I think if this happened 2 or 3 years ago, it would be awesome, but both guys were getting up their in age which probably caused the match quality to suffer. Match is just bland and nothing special, but its worth seeing considering its short and some like it more than me.* * 

CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #3: Eddie Gurrero vs Perry Saturn* 

RADICALZ~! I love both these guys of course and I expect an awesome match from these two, some cool high flying stuff from Eddie and some STIFF work from Saturn. Awesome this match is already an intense brawl before the bell even rings :mark:. Match is a ton of fun, starting to get the notion that Eddie in 2000-2001 is a bit underrated, his character work was still great, and he was managing to pull out some fun matches like this every once in a while. Saturn wins, fine by me , really fun match. ****

CAL SCALE: 2 

Match #4: Edge and Christian vs the APA* 

E&C have been faking sick all night, COMMISH FOLEY catches him though, and now they get to have their asses beat by the APA! This match is gonna be awesome because all 4 guys can go which is awesome. APA is OVER because Bradshaw is from Texas so he cuts an AWESOME promo, APA are awesome. Match is awesome, its just a WAR, and its fitting that this awesome brawl takes place in Texas…because texas has a lot of fights? :lol IDK why I made that analogy but this is still FUN as fuck nonetheless. DQ finish doesn’t bother me too much considering it fits the characters of E&C.* **3/4

CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #5: Rikishi vs Val Venis-steel cage match *

I remember thinking this match wasn’t GREAT, but it was about as fun as humanly possible. Also, Rikishi is awesome in the year 2000, any other year he can fuck off, but I love him in 2000. Val was IC champion? Well he’ll drop it here I guess and go back to shooting pornos. TRISH IS BACK :mark:. No big shock but this was FUN AS FUCK. I love how they gave it a lot of time, was afraid it would be really short but I estimate it was about 15 minutes long. Best part is when LITA COMES OUT AND HITS TRISH IN THE ASS, and then continues to beat the shit out of her, CATFIGHT!! :lol The big splash by Kishi FROM THE TOP OF THE CAGE is so :mark:, I legit marked out when I saw that :lol. Val ends up winning because of Tazz, I loved this match so much. ****1/2 

CAL SCALE: 3 

Match #6: Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker *

Yeah I remember thinking this match was garbage, but I like their SVS 2000 match so maybe I’ll like this one too, doubt it though, too bad the Undertaker in 2000-2001 just wasn’t that good, he was at his best during the RA era for sure. They brawl a lot in the beginning, and I feel like that’s what this match is gonna end up being, a boring brawl throughout, no idea why some people think its “a good preview to their future matches” because I actually like all their other matches :lol. Yeah this match still sucks, which is a bummer because if this was **** or higher this might be the best show ever. **

CAL SCALE: 0
*
*Match #7: HHH vs Chris Jericho-LMS match*

:mark: I’m pretty sure this is only the second time I have ever seen this, gave it ****3/4 on first watch and I assume that it will hold up here, just because HHH in 2000 is GOAT outside of like 2 ppv matches. Match is just perfect, its so so close to a 5 star perfect match, the only gripe I have about it is that at some points HHH acts like a babyface overcoming the odds even though he is supposed to be the POS heel that we boo. Pretty sure this is Jerichos best match, probably a top 5 Trips match too, maybe his second best behind the match with Foley at the rumble of this year. Match is SO close to 5 stars, the character work is a bit weird to me, Jericho acts like a heel at points and HHH acts like the babyface a few times during the match, and that really is the only thing that keeps it from 5 stars. Also I completely forgot that Jericho won this match, for some reason I just assumed that HHH went over. Whats also weird is that every singles match these guys had after this were shit. But lets just pretend the 2002 series never happened and this glorious match was the only thing that they ever did . *****3/4 

CAL SCALE: 8 

Match #8: The Rock vs Chris Benoit *

I honestly don’t remember much from this match other than that the finish is complete SHIT. However apparently I gave the match ****1/2 so I assume I will like it again, I remember liking it but I cant remember why, although I can assume because of BENOIT. However, I very specifically remember the finish and its shit. I really like how Benoit worked the ribs early on, he starts to forget about them by working other parts of the body but the Rock still sells his ribs so it ends up working out. Shane I hilarious at ringside btw, dude is just a great heel manager, should have been a manager for more people, but I guess he wanted to go corporate .Match ends up holding up perfectly, and cements this ppv as a classic, even though its only the #2 MOTN because Of the LMS match. Ending is still shit, remember the first time watching this I marked out because I thought he legit won, but then it was all ruined because Foley brought out DAT SHOVEL. Match is still fucking awesome though. *****1/2 

CAL SCALE: 7 

TOTAL CAL SCALE: 24 

Current 2000 ppv rankings 

1: Fully Loaded(24) 
2: Judgment day (20)
3: Summerslam (19) 
4: The Royal Rumble (17)
5: No Way out (16)
6: Unforgiven (15.5)
7: No mercy (14) 
8: WrestleMania 2000(13)
9: King of the ring (11) 
10: Rebellion (9) 
11: Insurrextion (8.5)
12: Survivor Series (7) 
13: Armageddon (4)
*​


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

2000 is an amazing year to review, all the PPV's delivered one way or another


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> Never heard of Pat O'Connor


:jordan


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

All of the shows have at least one match I enjoy, the worst show of the year in Armageddon has that classic 6 man HIAC match, SVS has Angle/Taker and Rikishi/Rock, the UK shows have some fun matches, and then you get to the better shows where you have some of the best ppvs ever.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> Surprised by how much I liked that Usos/Bryan vs. Orton/Batista/Kane six man tag. Didn't sound at all interesting to me on paper, and I generally am sick of those random six man tags.
> 
> Orton, however, seemed especially lively/fiery/vicious that night, and I liked how it built into a crescendo with Bryan & the Usos flying high. Glad that I bothered to watched.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it was fun and I'm glad they protected the heels by doing the DCO again. Orton and Batista as a destructive heel tag team is actually pretty cool.

Also liked how Orton worked the ribs with a body-scissor instead of the usual chinlock when he uses a resthold.

Not to mention I lol'd @ Orton burying the tag titles on Raw. :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The only flaw that I can think of for the Wrestlewar match was that Flair forgot about that arm that Steamboat spent so much time working on. I used to have the order as Wrestlewar > ChiTown Rumble > 2/3 Falls, but now it has reversed. 2/3 Falls might be best match ever. Certainly among the best in America.



That's exactly the problem I had with it too. It's funny, cause the first time I watched it I didn't notice it. Seeing Foley, Cornette, and so many others call that Nashville match "the greatest match of all time" I guess made me blind to it. Then I rewatched it and it sorta stuck out like a sore thumb, and is probably the only reason I can't give it the full 5 anymore.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I didn't LOL at that basically burial. Wheater you like the Usos or not, they are the Goddamn Tag Champs and NO champs should get buried. That is inexcusable as far as I'm concerned.

That being said, Smitty, you should be pretty anxious because I believe your next 2000 review is *BACKLASH*, which is kinda really badass


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm actually about to start that right now :mark:

What will be harder is creating a top 25 ppv matches of 2000, top 5 will likely include :hunter


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Taker/Angle FL 00 isnt that bad :no:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> I didn't LOL at that basically burial. Wheater you like the Usos or not, they are the Goddamn Tag Champs and NO champs should get buried. That is inexcusable as far as I'm concerned.


I'm indifferent to the Usos, but the way Orton said it had me laughing. "I don't care about the tag titles". :lol


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Taker/Angle FL 00 isnt that bad :no:


I thought it was boring as shit tbh, just a dull brawl that had nothing going for it, brawling is good but when you are doing it for no reason it makes a match bad. They randomly go into the crowd within 30 seconds of the bell, the whole "big fight feel" they were going for felt so forced


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just dropped in to put over how awesome Kane/HHH Chain Match Judgement Day 2001 is. One of my favorite Kane matches, brutal, rugged, badass, all those superlatives apply. Some great brawling and awesome usage of the chain and solid arm work by Hunter. Big, big fan of it. ****


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

What's some of your favorite moments in a match that you felt were just perfect, were executed so damn perfectly, and just added to the match in a huge way? 

For example, Flair screaming at Funk in his I quit match with him while beating on him to try to make him quit, that moment was just awesome, it was one of the first times while watching a match where I honestly felt like this shit was real, that it wasn't scripted in anyway and they truly felt this way about each other.

If I were go to recent, I'd say another favorite moment is the Triangle choke hold into a powerbomb spot, only for it to be locked back in followed by another powerbomb in the Lesnar/Punk match. The crowd reaction, the emotion, the acting and look of concern on Paul Heyman, the way Punk tried to fight out after being lifted up a second time and Lesnar waiting until he had the powerbomb held properly before executing it, such an incredibly well executed moment. :banderas


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm on me phone atm so I can't search, and I'm not wading through all the shit in the WWE Section. Anyone know when the next Austin podcast is?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never did understand why so many kept saying WrestleWar '89 was the best of the trilogy. That's always been the easy "weakest" - by proxy of order - for me. 2/3 tops it all and then the excellent, high paced Chi-Town Rumble match in second.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Gonna watch Wrestlewar and Chi-town rumble matches tonight, anything else to look for on those shows or is just Flair/Steamboat?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TheGMofGods said:


> What's some of your favorite moments in a match that you felt were just perfect, were executed so damn perfectly, and just added to the match in a huge way?
> 
> For example, Flair screaming at Funk in his I quit match with him while beating on him to try to make him quit, that moment was just awesome, it was one of the first times while watching a match where I honestly felt like this shit was real, that it wasn't scripted in anyway and they truly felt this way about each other.
> 
> If I were go to recent, I'd say another favorite moment is the Triangle choke hold into a powerbomb spot, only for it to be locked back in followed by another powerbomb in the Lesnar/Punk match. The crowd reaction, the emotion, the acting and look of concern on Paul Heyman, the way Punk tried to fight out after being lifted up a second time and Lesnar waiting until he had the powerbomb held properly before executing it, such an incredibly well executed moment. :banderas


I made a post about this not too long ago. I love talking about this stuff. Here are some of my favorite "perfect" moments:

Eddie, while he's bleeding like fuck all over the place, shrugging off some punches by JBL, doing his little Latino Heat dance, then firing back with some massive right hands during their bloodbath at Judgement Day 2004.

Eddie, during his 6/23/05 Smackdown match with Rey, pretending to give Rey a "clean break" in the corner while Rey is perched on the turnbuckle, then proceeds to forcefully shove Rey off the top to the floor outside. He then gives this amazing dickish smirk. One of my all time favorites, it's hard to describe unless you've seen it. And GMofGods, if you haven't seen this match, with your love for small details, I can't imagine you not being ape over it. It's such a glorious affair, the character work from Eddie and ring psychology is just off the charts.

The moment you talked about, during Austin/Angle SS 01', when Angle locks that Ankle lock on the barrier, with blood pouring down his head, he let's out that triumphant "WOOOO". Instant goosebumps every time.

Takers reaction to Michaels kicking out of the first tombstone at their WM 25 match. One of the only times you will see Taker show his human side while working the Deadman gimmick.

It's either GAB or COTC I Quit, Flair vs Funk, when Terry dives over the railing to try and get at a fan and fails miserably while swinging at thin air like a madman. This was such a perfect moment for Terry's "middle aged and crazy" character. If you've seen the match you know what I'm talking about, Funk is such a loon.

Austin flipping Rocky the bird, dragging his ass back into the center of the ring, and locking the sharpshooter right back in during their WM 17 match. Love that whole submission exchange in that match, but that moment was my favorite of the entire night.

When Vince finds a lead pipe under the ring during his WM 19 match with Hogan, he rises like Count fucking Dracula with blood all over his face wearing the single creepiest look on his face I've ever seen.

There are more but those are the ones that stick out.



The Hitman said:


> I'm on me phone atm so I can't search, and I'm not wading through all the shit in the WWE Section. Anyone know when the next Austin podcast is?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App



Austin records a new family friendly podcast every Tuesday, and he does a new unleashed one every Thursdsy.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Paul Heyman takes part in a six-man tag at Chi-Town Rumble. I used to like the Windham/Luger match, but it was pretty boring in my most recent watch. Other than that, you could punish yourself by watching Sting/Reed and call it a day with that show.

Wrestlewar 89 had a fun Muta squash in the beginning. Don't recall liking the Orton/Murdoch match. I used to like Luger/Hayes, but that too sucked on a rewatch. Other than that, everything sucked. And shockingly enough, Flair/Steamboat was NOT the main event.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah they stuck Flair vs Steamboat around the the end of the second hour just to afford it all the time it could have on the PPV w/the 30+ minute match & Funk story lead in :lol


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I think they did stuff like that with title matches from time to time because they acted like it would be a mystery if the match would go for 60 minutes or not. I mean it does make a lot of sense if you're watching on TV. If you've seen every other match and know that only the title match is left and the show will be on for over an hour then you know it's going to last a while or there will be nothing happening on screen for a while.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

"I'm sorry, I love you." Speaks for itself really.

When HHH kicks out of the AA at Mania 22 and Cena doesn't know what to do so he goes to the top rope and King is like, 'No, Cena! What are you doing stay on him!" I don't know why but I really like that spot and King sold Cena's naivety and greenness in that moment perfectly for me.

Everything from the build up to the post Tombstone on Taker at Mania 27 is perfection. Taker grabbing Hunter's face, Trips telling him "No, it's time," the cover itself and then Trips cowering in awe against the ropes at the fact that Taker kicked out. The reaction is also insane. Probably the best nearfall in history.

Just a few there and also the Vince demonic face at Mania 19. Fucking perfect moment. Vince, man. When's he going to come back and start GOAT'ing again? 



Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Eddie, during his 6/23/05 Smackdown match with Rey, pretending to give Rey a "clean break" in the corner while Rey is perched on the turnbuckle, then proceeds to forcefully shove Rey off the top to the floor outside. He then gives this amazing dickish smirk. One of my all time favorites, it's hard to describe unless you've seen it. And GMofGods, if you haven't seen this match, with your love for small details, I can't imagine you not being ape over it. It's such a glorious affair, the character work from Eddie and ring psychology is just off the charts.


I don't usually focus on little details. But when there's so many things I feel like go wrong in a certain amount of time I tend to pay attention to them. I won't derail a match just for one spot or one moment I don't like (I loved the HBK/Taker match from WM 25 but Taker going for the diving elbow is definitely one of my all time biggest cringe-worthy moments).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TaylorFitz said:


> I think they did stuff like that with title matches from time to time because they acted like it would be a mystery if the match would go for 60 minutes or not. I mean it does make a lot of sense if you're watching on TV. If you've seen every other match and know that only the title match is left and the show will be on for over an hour then you know it's going to last a while or there will be nothing happening on screen for a while.


It was common w/TV shows, but rarely PPVs. It still seems like that may have been the only time it was actually done on PPV and I'm still not sure why. Both tag championship matches that followed were short. It isn't like they booked that show particularly well or "lengthy" to not give all the time in the world for Flair vs Steamboat III. But oh well. It delivered and the post-match shocker was terrific.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Whatever you do though, please don't watch COTC V. It was used as a buildup to Chi-Town Rumble and the highlight of it was the crowd booing Ricky Steamboat in favor of Ric Flair who made a really funny sexist joke. What a waste of Genichiro Tenryu. But I guess this world can't have nice things.

Do however watch Eddie Gilbert & Ron Simmons vs. Fantastics from COTC IV. Eddie Gilbert sold that arm better than anyone ever did.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's why the only memorable moment about that Clash is the darkened arena segment between Flair and Steamboat. Flair w/pimp coat and hookers at his side to boot.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Gilbert/Simmons v. Fantastics should have gone half the length it did and had a heel team in the match.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

:lol Thought you were telling me to not watch Flair/Steamboat 2/3 falls, but realized that match is on CoTC VI.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> "I'm sorry, I love you." Speaks for itself really.
> 
> When HHH kicks out of the AA at Mania 22 and Cena doesn't know what to do so he goes to the top rope and King is like, 'No, Cena! What are you doing stay on him!" I don't know why but I really like that spot and King sold Cena's naivety and greenness in that moment perfectly for me.
> 
> ...


I wish the Streak had actually ended with something like this. I loved the way Flair went out and I loved the way Shawn was retired. They did a great fake on Undertaker at WM 27 and he did one of those to Triple H at WM 28. I just wish that Undertaker had got a moment like that for when the Streak ended.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Gilbert/Simmons v. Fantastics should have gone half the length it did and had a heel team in the match.


The length was pretty egregious, but I thought that not having a heel team benefited it a lot more. Really exemplified just how good Eddie Gilbert was in that he was able to turn that entire crowd to support him just through selling that arm. Fantastics did a good job showing how they cared less about fan satisfaction and more about winning the titles. Loved the story of how Gilbert let his pride get the best of him by not trusting in his inexperienced yet fresh partner and instead vowed to fight by himself. Fell due to his own faults. Straight piff.


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

What are everyone's thoughts about Angle/Taker from Survivor Series 2000? 

I always forgot about that match until I saw it mentioned by someone earlier today & made me want to watch it. It could have been better if it was given more time & had a couple other elements included. It was overall a straight forward match, but could have used a bit more climactic parts. The ending was fine, as it fit Angle's character at the time. I give it ****1/2*, maybe that's a bit high, but for some reason I really like it. Of course it's not as great as their NWO 2006 match, but still good/enjoyable.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Last time I watched it, I didn't like it. However, my tastes have changed like crazy, so I'm sure that I will enjoy Angle/Taker this time around.

Bryan/Usos vs. Batista/Orton/Kane from Smackdown is real good. Who would have thought that the six-man tag would be the revitalization of the WWE? It even makes Batista look good. Shit, I'd go as far as to say that WWE multi-man tags > NJPW multi-man tags.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Question: Has the bearhug ever been a believable wrestling move?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

there's a Verne Gagne v. Billy Robinson from 1974 that IIRC has a terrific bearhug segment. Verne sold it it perfectly.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Erick Rowan has the best bearhug in the business. And that's high praise coming from a huge Mark Henry fan.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah, I was watching JBL/Eddie and JBL broke it out. I feel like there's usually so much separation between the two guys that difficult to take it seriously. Eddie/JBL is pretty good; first time viewing for me. That blade job was so nasty, but the image of Eddie firing up while drenched in his own blood is really something else. 

Checking out JBL/Cena from JD the following year. The opening promo :lmao Angle :lmao "Booker. I want to have sex with you wife." :lmao :lmao


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> Question: Has the bearhug ever been a believable wrestling move?


Brock beat Hogan with it. If anybody has the legit power and the intensity to make it believable it's Brock.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Speaking of bearhugs and if anyone is still awake, Wrestlemania VI is on the network right now. Check out Hogan vs. Warrior, plenty of bearhugs in that!  Glorious, glorious match.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

Just got done watching the new Ultimate Warrior set. Will post a snowflake review sometime later today.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

People here discussing "perfect" moments in matches, right? Well, for me, I'll take one straight out of my favorite match of all time, Savage/Warrior (still can't believe I really can't find no reason to not give it the full five other than just because): it was coming close to the end of the match, when Savage, shortly after Warrior kicked out of FIVE FUCKING Elbow Drops, realized he might've had nothing left in the tank, but he still kept going. He went for a Diving Crossbody to the outside, however Warrior stepped out and made Savage land in the metal barrier, for which Warrior followed by _asking upwards for more power_. I'm no Catholic or anything (Atheist forevah baybee), but holy Mick Foley, that was one awesome shot that played incredibly well to the character of the Warrior while subtly putting over Savage as a true match for Warrior. I don't really know if he was asking to God tho, but who knows anything other than badfuckingass.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

HayleySabin said:


> Never did understand why so many kept saying WrestleWar '89 was the best of the trilogy. That's always been the easy "weakest" - by proxy of order - for me. 2/3 tops it all and then the excellent, high paced Chi-Town Rumble match in second.


Final half of the WrestleWar match is just the perfect quarter of an hour in wrestling. First half is pretty poor for their standards and it is something that sours it for me when I look back :< idk think if I was to watch 'em now, Chi-Town would be top. Something about the 2/3 falls, I can't get behind. It isn't like most hour long matches I love (Garvin/Blanchard, Flair/Wahoo, Flair/Windham (only 45mins or so but it shall count to make my point!)


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Kane vs Austin on Raw in 1998 (after KOTR) was an excellent match though a bit short. A gem in both men's careers.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Kane vs Austin on Raw in 1998 (after KOTR) was an excellent match though a bit short. A gem in both men's careers.


Absolutely, I wrote about it few weeks ago, it was a great brawl with grandiose energy.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> Question: Has the bearhug ever been a believable wrestling move?



Sure, when the right guys do it and the execute it properly. I've always been a mark for Brock's bear hug. When he clamps his arms around Rocky during the SS 2002 bout, then proceeds to just rag doll the Peoples Champ, I thought that was particularly awesome. As FF mentioned, Rowan has a very good bear hug, as does Henry. It's all about whether the guys are willing to actually work the hold as opposed to just using it for rest. If the guy applying it continues to cinch up and show he's crushing the other guys diaphragm, and the guy in the bear hug sells it like he's being suffocated, it can really really add to the desperation of the face. I do find it quite annoying when both guys just blatantly rest in it, then it just looks like some homoerotic activities are taking place in a wrestling ring. Just my .02


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Bryan/Usos vs. Batista/Orton/Kane from Smackdown is real good. Who would have thought that the six-man tag would be the revitalization of the WWE? It even makes Batista look good. Shit, I'd go as far as to say that WWE multi-man tags > NJPW multi-man tags.


The squash match from RAW raped that waste of eight minutes. No comment on the other. Well, a little bit. New Japan wins b/c their entire roster can offer up something. WWE's can't.

Bearhugs are cool. I dig 'em and Erick Rowan is showing the world it's a proper art when used well. As anything in this biz can be.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Anyone seen *Luger vs Hansen, "Flair" vs Sting* and *Doom vs Anderson/Windham* from Starrcade '90 recently? Thought I've seen the event but I can't remember those three matches. Yet I remember the whacky international tournament.

Basically just looking for some thoughts on them, if it's worth going back to watch .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I can't believe we already have theads about how Roman Reigns is "overrated".

Seriously, the guy has been on the main roster for just a little over a year, working mainly in tag matches. And oh yea, those tag matches happen to steal the show just about every time. This guy is RAW, but he's undoubtedly been super impressive for someone with only 2 or so years of wrestling experience. Not everyone can be Orton, Angle, or Lesnar, wrestling prodigies by all rights. Why can't people just wait and see how it goes? I really don't understand this. Rollins is undoubtedly a better wrestler at this point that Reigns, but he's been wrestling for going on 10 years now. For Reigns to just be able to hang with him is a big accomplishment. What is the deal with people just looking for reasons to hate on someone? What more can Reigns do than tear it up in tags every single night? By all rights he's exceeding reasonable expectations for a guy with his amount of experience.

It seems to be that the cliche of "the IWC loves someone until they get a push, then they slowly turn on them". Reigns hasn't even gotten his singles push yet, and people are already turning on him before he's even been afforded the opportunity to either impress or dissapoint as a singles guy. Ugh fpalm


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If you think that's bad, don't you think it's ironic that someone started a "Anyone else sick of Daniel Bryan" thread _two days after WM 30_? Oh yeah, me too. Those guys are just looking for something to crap on. Leave them be.

Just because I'm bored, I think I'll take every thoughts I have of every single PG Era PPV and rank them all in a LIST. OH MY GOD A RANKING LIST BY ATF. WE DON'T SEE THAT OFTEN 8*D


----------



## English Dragon (Apr 10, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I can't believe we already have theads about how Roman Reigns is "overrated".
> 
> Seriously, the guy has been on the main roster for just a little over a year, working mainly in tag matches. And oh yea, those tag matches happen to steal the show just about every time. This guy is RAW, but he's undoubtedly been super impressive for someone with only 2 or so years of wrestling experience. Not everyone can be Orton, Angle, or Lesnar, wrestling prodigies by all rights. Why can't people just wait and see how it goes? I really don't understand this. Rollins is undoubtedly a better wrestler at this point that Reigns, but he's been wrestling for going on 10 years now. For Reigns to just be able to hang with him is a big accomplishment. What is the deal with people just looking for reasons to hate on someone? What more can Reigns do than tear it up in tags every single night? By all rights he's exceeding reasonable expectations for a guy with his amount of experience.
> 
> It seems to be that the cliche of "the IWC loves someone until they get a push, then they slowly turn on them". Reigns hasn't even gotten his singles push yet, and people are already turning on him before he's even been afforded the opportunity to either impress or dissapoint as a singles guy. Ugh fpalm


Yeah it's stupid. It's because they all want to go against the WWE's "chosen guy", plus it doesnt help that hes partnered with two internet darlings. 

I love all three of them, they work so well as a team and am glad they didn't split them up yet (although I think Ambrose or Rollins is turning soon).

Rollins is my favourite member he brings something completely new to the WWE imo.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

... Or maybe some of us see Reigns as a guy who sucks in the ring and on the mic when he's forced to do things on his own. He has disappointed in several singles matches from what I've seen. Mainly my issue is WWE protecting a guy who's far from ready, yet feeding so many more talented guys to the wolves. (Not saying that he should be, just merely if certain others are and he's allowed to be one of the most protected guys on the roster, it seems wrong).

I'd be willing to give him a chance if all of his performances/matches in singles competition outside of the Bryan match didn't absolutely suck, and even then, I chalk that one up mostly to Bryan. But who knows? Maybe he'll improve, although people throw that word around a lot for him. Adding a couple of moves into his arsenal doesn't qualify as "improving" to me. The sad thing is, I really do want to like Reigns, but his look and badassness can only take him so far.

... IMO of course.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I can't believe we already have theads about how Roman Reigns is "overrated".
> 
> Seriously, the guy has been on the main roster for just a little over a year, working mainly in tag matches. And oh yea, those tag matches happen to steal the show just about every time. This guy is RAW, but he's undoubtedly been super impressive for someone with only 2 or so years of wrestling experience. Not everyone can be Orton, Angle, or Lesnar, wrestling prodigies by all rights. Why can't people just wait and see how it goes? I really don't understand this. Rollins is undoubtedly a better wrestler at this point that Reigns, but he's been wrestling for going on 10 years now. For Reigns to just be able to hang with him is a big accomplishment. What is the deal with people just looking for reasons to hate on someone? What more can Reigns do than tear it up in tags every single night? By all rights he's exceeding reasonable expectations for a guy with his amount of experience.
> 
> It seems to be that the cliche of "the IWC loves someone until they get a push, then they slowly turn on them". Reigns hasn't even gotten his singles push yet, and people are already turning on him before he's even been afforded the opportunity to either impress or dissapoint as a singles guy. Ugh fpalm


I really don't remember any of his singles matches aside from a great match with Bryan and an underwhelming match with Bray Wyatt. That's it. 

But he's amazing in tag matches and has probably been in more great matches than anyone else on the roster in the last 2 years aside from Seth Rollins and maybe Bryan (not sure about that one though).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> ... Or maybe some of us see Reigns as a guy who sucks in the ring and on the mic when he's forced to do things on his own. He has disappointed in several singles matches from what I've seen. Mainly my issue is WWE protecting a guy who's far from ready, yet feeding so many more talented guys to the wolves. (Not saying that he should be, just merely if certain others are and he's allowed to be one of the most protected guys on the roster, it seems wrong).
> 
> I'd be willing to give him a chance if all of his performances/matches in singles competition outside of the Bryan match didn't absolutely suck, and even then, I chalk that one up mostly to Bryan. But who knows? Maybe he'll improve, although people throw that word around a lot for him. Adding a couple of moves into his arsenal doesn't qualify as "improving" to me. The sad thing is, I really do want to like Reigns, but his look and badassness can only take him so far.
> 
> ... IMO of course.



You have every right to your opinion and I appreciate you atleast explaining it. My thing is, how can you say he "sucks" in the ring? He has had at most, 5 singles matches, 1 of them was very good, and the others were really short. Then he has a laundry list of GREAT tag matches, both in standard tags with Rollins and 6 man tags with the entire group. How is that indicative of a guy who "sucks"? I'm just curious I'm not trying to bash your opinion or anything. I figure you should give a guy atleast 10-15 normal length (10-15 minutes) singles matches before you can say he sucks. But that's just me. And when has Roman been given a 2-3 minute promo on his own that you can determine he can't talk? Like I said, if he ends up sucking then that's fine. I just feel like this guy hasn't been given anything close to a proper chance as a singles guy in order for an opinion of him as a singles guy to be formed. And he kicks ass as a tag team guy, I'm not sure that's even debatable. Even if he ends up just being a great tag team guy, is that really so bad? I seem to remember some guys named Bobby Eaton, Ricky Morton, and Arn Anderson- guys that spent the majority of their careers in tag teams but are still without a doubt some of the best wrestlers ever.

I'm not a super Reigns mark or anything, I just don't understand why this sudden backlash against him has come about when he has only impressed the hell out of me in tag matches. There are tons of Hall of Fame wrestlers who took 3-5 years of in ring seasoning before they became great in the ring. It's the same in a lot of sports.





TaylorFitz said:


> I really don't remember any of his singles matches aside from a great match with Bryan and an underwhelming match with Bray Wyatt. That's it.
> 
> But he's amazing in tag matches and has probably been in more great matches than anyone else on the roster in the last 2 years aside from Seth Rollins and maybe Bryan (not sure about that one though).


That's pretty much what I was trying to say. Just give the dude a proper chance as a singles dude before you rush to judge him. And even then, he still has a great career ahead of him as a tag team guy at the very least.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You have every right to your opinion and I appreciate you atleast explaining it. My thing is, how can you say he "sucks" in the ring? He has had at most, 5 singles matches, 1 of them was very good, and the others were really short. Then he has a laundry list of GREAT tag matches, both in standard tags with Rollins and 6 man tags with the entire group. How is that indicative of a guy who "sucks"? I'm just curious I'm not trying to bash your opinion or anything. I figure you should give a guy atleast 10-15 normal length (10-15 minutes) singles matches before you can say he sucks.
> .


I get that line of thinking, and tbh it's the one reason I don't hate the guy (despite my posts here on him, I really am trying to like him again). But to me his matches have sucked, even for whatever time he's gotten in them. I've seen good sub-5 minute matches, I've seen sub-5 minute matches that weren't good or bad (which is where the majority stand for me), and then sub-5 minute matches that are just bad, and that's where all of Reigns' have fallen for me. Whether it's a 3 minute match with Henry, or a 10-15 minute match with Punk, they've all been terrible. The Bryan match was the only good one, but it was still a far cry from "great" as far as I'm concerned, and Bryan's been able to get great matches out of guys previously who aren't good in the ring either (Barrett and Miz are the first two that come to mind). 

He's great in tag team action because he's great in small bursts, but once he's forced to go out on his own, either he'll sink and be nothing more than a jobber or fired in a few years, OR he'll be kept afloat by the company by force and shoved down our throats... and then the fans will start rejecting him at some point and we'll have another Cena on our hands. At least, that's if they start pushing him up the card hard this year.

Like I said though, I do want to like him (and I did for awhile up until his match recently with Wyatt), and hopefully he does improve, because he is most likely the future of the company... at least based on how they're booking him right now. I just don't see it, yet.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Why was Eaton, Morton and Anderson used in a discussion about Reigns' capabilities? It's news to me that Reigns' is wrestling as a face in peril or doing 5-10 minute control segments. Morton shouldn't really be used as an example either. Wrestled very well as a singles in Memphis and was paired with Gibson to give him something on the card. Eaton wrestled for roughly 15 years before having a testing singles run too.

Anderson comparison has a bit more promise. But again, Arn was working the matches, not playing the "big spots". Which is all Reigns' has done.


I'm with BadNewsSanta. His tag work leaves me believing he can be something special but he's not lit alive the opportunities that he has to prove himself. I'd compare him to Nikita Koloff currently. With Ivan Koloff, he looked the world of promise. But unlike Nikita, he isn't being allowed to sink or swim while involved with the tag team. Instead, he's been given favoured treatment while no one sees his progress.

He needs that Nikita/Blanchard-esque feud. Apparently it's to be Triple H? But that'll doomed for failure. People bring the best out of Triple H, not the other way round.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> I get that line of thinking, and tbh it's the one reason I don't hate the guy (despite my posts here on him, I really am trying to like him again). But to me his matches have sucked, even for whatever time he's gotten in them. I've seen good sub-5 minute matches, I've seen sub-5 minute matches that weren't good or bad (which is where the majority stand for me), and then sub-5 minute matches that are just bad, and that's where all of Reigns' have fallen for me.
> 
> He's great in tag team action because he's great in small bursts, but once he's forced to go out on his own, either he'll sink and be nothing more than a jobber or fired in a few years, OR he'll be kept afloat by the company by force and shoved down our throats... and then the fans will start rejecting him at some point and we'll have another Cena on our hands. At least, that's if they start pushing him up the card hard this year.


I can appreciate the points you are making, but I'd also like to point a few things out for your consideration:

Having a really good 5 minute match takes a lot of practice. It's easier for a really green guy to have a decent match in 10 minutes than it is 5, or atleast that's what just about every wrestler has said in their books. Ric Flair and Jericho especially said they had a really hard time working short matches because you have to learn how to structure them properly. Reigns has only had 2-3 short singles matches that are around 5 minutes or so. I simply don't think that's nearly enough time to properly judge him. That's what the majority of my argument for Reigns has been all along, there is not enough of a sample size with him as a singles guy to judge him, and his big sample size as a tag team guy has shown that he is capable of having great tag matches. That just doesn't add up to a guy "sucking" in my opinion. If you think differently that's totally cool, I'm just explaining how I think for the purpose of discussion.

You said, and I quote "once he's out on his own either he will sink and be nothing more than a jobber in a few years, or he will be fired, or he will be kept afloat and pushed down our throats by the company even though the fans have rejected him". I'm sorry, so you are saying Reigns has absolutely ZERO chance of succeeding?! There is no option for "Reigns continues to steadily improve throughout 2014 as a singles guy, and by the time WM 31 he's ready for his first big singles match on the grandest stage in wrestling". That simply has to be a possibility, as much as him being fired in a few years is a possibility. I just think it's awfully close minded to think he doesn't even have a chance of succeeding unless it's the company "forcing him down our throats". The guy has Somoan blood, history is on his side as far as the percentage of wrestlers with Somoan blood who end up being good wrestlers. That might sound stereotypical but it is also very true, for whatever reasons the majority of Somoan guys end up being good workers. His dad was one of the Wild Somoans, so he has a deep appreciation for wrestling and has been indoctrinated with wrestling since he was born.

It might be just me, but I'd say the odds favor Reigns becoming at the very least a good singles guy. If I were a betting man, I'd bet on a guy like Roman to succeed over failing. Would it really hurt anything to give a guy 6 months as a singles competitor before forming an opinion on him? That's how much time I gave Big E before I decided he's just not for me, same with Axel. I waited until after Axel had a chance to work several PPV matches with CM Punk before I decided I'm not a fan. I'm not saying that's what you SHOULD be doing, as you are allowed to form an opinion whenever you want. I'm just saying it might be prudent to wait before judging a guy like Reigns who has a ton of potential.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Desecrated said:


> Why was Eaton, Morton and Anderson used in a discussion about Reigns' capabilities? It's news to me that Reigns' is wrestling as a face in peril or doing 5-10 minute control segments. Morton shouldn't really be used as an example either. Wrestled very well as a singles in Memphis and was paired with Gibson to give him something on the card. Eaton wrestled for roughly 15 years before having a testing singles run too.
> 
> Anderson comparison has a bit more promise. But again, Arn was working the matches, not playing the "big spots". Which is all Reigns' has done.
> 
> ...



Did you read what I said? I simply threw those names out as guys who were some of the greatest wrestlers of all time who are known by the vast majority for their tag team work. I'm saying even if Reigns fails as a singles guy, he could still have one hell of a career as a tag team guy, which isn't such a bad thing when you consider guys like Eaton, Anderson, and Morton who had fabulous tag team careers.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's Bored So He Decided To Rank Every Single WWE PPV In PG Era... Project

PART 1: The Bad-to-Not-Too-Bad Stuff*

_Pictures of each MOTN will be displayed_

*73. Royal Rumble 2013









72. TLC 2009









71. Royal Rumble 2012









70. Over The Limit 2011









69. Capitol Punishment 2011









68. Over The Limit 2010









67. Extreme Rules 2009









66. The Bash 2009









65. Elimination Chamber 2012









64. Night Of Champions 2013









63. Royal Rumble 2010









62. Bragging Rights 2010









61. Survivor Series 2008









60. Hell In A Cell 2009









59. Night Of Champions 2009









58. Extreme Rules 2013









57. Extreme Rules 2010









56. Battleground 2013









55. Elimination Chamber 2010









54. Hell In A Cell 2013









53. Survivor Series 2013









52. The Great American Bash 2008









51. Judgment Day 2009









Part 2 will come soon...*​


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Did you read what I said? I simply threw those names out as guys who were some of the greatest wrestlers of all time who are known by the vast majority for their tag team work. I'm saying even if Reigns fails as a singles guy, he could still have one hell of a career as a tag team guy, which isn't such a bad thing when you consider guys like Eaton, Anderson, and Morton who had fabulous tag team careers.


The biggest problem is everyone is presuming that he is going to be top of the card, a future great wrestler etc. The backlash should be understandable. Why does he deserve this hype because he's doing 2-3 minute "big spot" sequences in a 20 minute tag team match? What has he proven other than his abillity to hit an incredible sequence of moves in a tag match? Why should he deserve hype when there is a better wrestler in there doing the better in ring work, getting half the recognition and praise?

You are right in that if he fails as a singles, he'll have a good tag team run to reflect upon. But if he fails as a singles, no one is going to remember Reigns' tag team work. They are going to remember Rollins. He'd end up going the way of Jim Neidhart and Krusher Khrushchev.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

*THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR
THE ULTIMATE COLLECTION 
(DVD)*


*UWF (April 11, 1986)*
The Blade Runners vs. Perry Jackson & Shawn O’Reilly - DUD / *****

*WCCW (August 8, 1986)*
Dingo Warrior vs. Chris Adams - *½ / *****

*WWF Wrestling Challenge (November 7, 1987)*
Ultimate Warrior vs. Barry Horowitz - DUD / *****

*WWF Superstars (November 14, 1987)*
Ultimate Warrior vs. Steve Lombardi - *1/4 / *****

*WWF On NESN (March 5, 1988)*
Ultimate Warrior vs. Harley Race - ** / *****

*WWF On Z Channel (July 15, 1988)*
Weasel Suit Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Bobby Heenan - **1/4 / *****

*WWF SummerSlam (August 29, 1988)*
Intercontinental Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Honky Tonk Man - * / *****

*WWF On PRISM Network (December 17, 1988)*
Intercontinental Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Honky Tonk Man - **1/4 / *****

*WWF House Show (February 11, 1989)*
WWE Championship and Intercontinental Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Randy Savage - *** / *****

*WWF SummerSlam (August 28, 1989)*
Intercontinental Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude - **** / *****

*WWF Prime Time Wrestling (September 18, 1989)*
Ultimate Warrior vs. Bob Bradley - DUD / *****

*WWF On MSG Network (October 28, 1989)*
Intercontinental Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Andre the Giant - DUD / *****

*WWF Saturday Night’s Main Event (November 25, 1989)*
Intercontinental Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Andre the Giant - ** / *****

*WWF Prime Time Wrestling (December 25, 1989)*
Ultimate Warrior vs. Brian Costello - DUD / *****

*WWF On MSG Network (March 19, 1990)*
Intercontinental Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Mr. Perfect - **1/4 / *****

*WrestleMania VI (April 1, 1990)*
The Ultimate Challenge
WWE Championship vs. Intercontinental Championship Match
Hulk Hogan vs. Ultimate Warrior - **** / *****

*WWF/AJPW Wrestling Summit (April 13, 1990)*
WWE Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Ted DiBiase - **3/4 / *****

*WWF Saturday Night’s Main Event (July 28, 1990)*
WWE Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude - ***½ / *****

*WWF The Main Event (November 23, 1990)*
WWE Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Ted DiBiase - ***1/4 / *****

*WWF SuperStars (January 7, 1991)*
WWE Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter - **3/4 / *****

*WWF On MSG Network (January 21, 1991)*
Steel Cage Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Randy Savage - **3/4 / *****

*WrestleMania VII (March 24, 1991)*
Career Ending Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Randy Savage - ****1/4 / *****

*WWF House Show (June 2, 1991)*
Ultimate Warrior vs. The Undertaker - *½ / *****

*WWF Saturday Night’s Main Event (November 14, 1992)*
WWE Tag Team Championship Match
Money Inc. vs. Ultimate Warrior & Randy Savage - **½ / *****

*WrestleMania XII (March 31, 1996)*
Ultimate Warrior vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley - DUD / *****

*WWF King of the Ring (June 23, 1996)*
Ultimate Warrior vs. Jerry Lawler - DUD / *****​

Next project is either the Randy Savage or Brian Pillman compilation. Probably gonna go with the Savage one first.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I can appreciate the points you are making, but I'd also like to point a few things out for your consideration:
> 
> Having a really good 5 minute match takes a lot of practice. It's easier for a really green guy to have a decent match in 10 minutes than it is 5, or atleast that's what just about every wrestler has said in their books. Ric Flair and Jericho especially said they had a really hard time working short matches because you have to learn how to structure them properly. Reigns has only had 2-3 short singles matches that are around 5 minutes or so. I simply don't think that's nearly enough time to properly judge him. That's what the majority of my argument for Reigns has been all along, there is not enough of a sample size with him as a singles guy to judge him, and his big sample size as a tag team guy has shown that he is capable of having great tag matches. That just doesn't add up to a guy "sucking" in my opinion. If you think differently that's totally cool, I'm just explaining how I think for the purpose of discussion.
> 
> ...


On the short matches vs. long matches part... I imagine they're both difficult to do, and while I agree it's harder to have a good 5 minute match as opposed to 10, I also think it's harder to have a bad 5 minute match than a 10... if that makes any sense. In other words, a 10+ minute match has a much higher chance of being either really good, or really bad, than a 5 minute match. Reigns, as shown in tag matches, is really good in short bursts, so I'd imagine for him the 5 minute matches would be A LOT better than his 10+ minute matches... but whether they are or aren't, they've all sucked (with one exception) and most sub-5 minute matches, as I said, I usually can't decide if they're good or bad, but with Reigns, most of his have been pretty bad. Of course, it all comes down to opinion and I know several in this thread think those were good... or at least good for the amount of time he got, but I don't see it. When a 3 minute match with Henry drags for me, that's pretty bad.

And if you have your own way of judging someone, that is cool, much like you, I'm just going into more detail on my line of thinking. (Y)

As far as him having no chance of getting better by the end of 2014, it is a possibility... anything is a possibility, but I don't see it happening. I hope I'm wrong, but slowly over time I've been wondering more and more where this potential of Reigns is, and when it's going to show? Unlike others, I don't really think he's improved at all since his first match in WWE, and rather he's just added a few cool move, spots, and screams more. 

Truth is, as far as potential, with his lack of improvement imo, I think he's reached it. I agree that he is a GREAT tag team wrestler, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that... unless they try to push him into the main event scene like it seems they're going to. If he stays as a tag team wrestler the rest of his career, and WWE makes it clear that was his place for the unforeseeable future, then I wouldn't care enough to discuss this.

To each his own.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

MoxleyMoxx said:


> Next project is either the Randy Savage or Brian Pillman compilation. Probably gonna go with the Savage one first.


I got the Warrior DVD, and knew the match quality wouldn't be great, but was mainly buying it for Warrior's comments.

I wish they did a full 2 hour documentary instead. Also, don't know why they didn't put the match vs. Sgt. Slaughter at Royal Rumble '91 there.

One of my earliest childhood memories is Macho Man hitting Warrior over the head with that scepter, lol.

The heat when Finkle paused and said "neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew" is something seared into my memory.

Haven't seen the match since. Wonder how the actual match was.


Also, do Pillman's DVD next!!!!! He's a guy that I've gotten into recently. He was way ahead of his time, and you can tell that he was a really smart dude when listening to his promos. Even from listening to his early NWA promos, when he just a more "normal" babyface.

It's interesting watching these guys, and realizing how much they've influenced others. You can see Pillman's influence all over certain people, and I was watching some old Harley Race promo clips, and I can see why Steve Austin was such a big mark for him. Harley definitely influenced Austin's plain spoken style, IMO.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> On the short matches vs. long matches part... I imagine they're both difficult to do, and while I agree it's harder to have a good 5 minute match as opposed to 10, I also think it's harder to have a bad 5 minute match than a 10... if that makes any sense. In other words, a 10+ minute match has a much higher chance of being either really good, or really bad, than a 5 minute match. Reigns, as shown in tag matches, is really good in short bursts, so I'd imagine for him the 5 minute matches would be A LOT better than his 10+ minute matches... but whether they are or aren't, they've all sucked (with one exception) and most sub-5 minute matches, as I said, I usually can't decide if they're good or bad, but with Reigns, most of his have been pretty bad. Of course, it all comes down to opinion and I know several in this thread think those were good... or at least good for the amount of time he got, but I don't see it. When a 3 minute match with Henry drags for me, that's pretty bad.
> 
> And if you have your own way of judging someone, that is cool, much like you, I'm just going into more detail on my line of thinking. (Y)
> 
> ...



All of those points and criticisms are very fair, don't really have another response to it as I think we've both stated our points fairly succinctly. Good stuff (Y)

Are we in agreement atleast that Rollins looks ready for a GREAT singles career? I think it was in the lead up to Summerslam, when Rollins had that absolutely kick ass match with Bryan on Raw that I became convinced he's heading for big things. Unlike Reigns, you really can't make the argument that Bryan carried that match at all, both guys chipped in equally. That was one of the 3-4 best Raw matches all year IMO. My only concern with Rollins is, he's such a good sneaky little shit heel, character wise, but work wise he bumps and flies around so well I feel it might be difficult to keep him heel. Maybe his future is "just" as a bad ass tweener. Who knows. I definitely see a bright future for Seth though, he's one of those guys that always manages to stand out for his individual brilliance, no matter how many people he's sharing the ring with.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The thing that convinces me about Seth having a hell of a future is his ability to adapt and learn so quickly and in such a dramatic fashion. I was a fan of his before he got signed but he fell victim to a lot of the usual things most indy wrestlers do and it really irked me (he had some absolute stinkers during his ROH title run), but seeing him develop in to such a well rounded, marketable performer so quickly and with such ease leads me to believe that he's more than willing, and capable, to do anything he needs to do to succeed.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of another person who's managed to change and adapt as well as he has whilst still maintaining the same traits that made him appealing during his days as Tyler Black.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Robbie said:


> The thing that convinces me about Seth having a hell of a future is his ability to adapt and learn so quickly and in such a dramatic fashion. I was a fan of his before he got signed but he fell victim to a lot of the usual things most indy wrestlers do, but seeing him develop in to such a well rounded, marketable performer so quickly and with such ease leads me to believe that he's more than willing, and capable, to do anything he needs to do to succeed.
> 
> Off the top of my head, I can't think of another person who's managed to change and adapt as well as he has whilst still maintaining the same traits that made him appealing during his days as Tyler Black.



I actually have only seen 2-3 matches with Seth as "Tyler Black" in ROH, and they weren't really great or really bad. Just average stuff. I've heard some people say he was a "spot monkey" (hate that term but w/e) during his Indie days. Is that accurate? Because if so, I think it's astonishing the difference between that and who he is now. On the list of qualities I see in Seth, a "spot monkey" is about the furthest thing possible from who he is as a wrestler now. All his big spots are done in completely sensible fashion and always add rather than detract from the action at hand. And he has some freakishly awesome athleticism, his balance is incredible.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> I got the Warrior DVD, and knew the match quality wouldn't be great, but was mainly buying it for Warrior's comments.
> 
> I wish they did a full 2 hour documentary instead. Also, don't know why they didn't put the match vs. Sgt. Slaughter at Royal Rumble '91 there.
> 
> ...


I mainly watched it because of his comments too, but the DVD wasn't that bad match quality wise either, if anything, there was a lot of variety. 
There were some great matches (like vs. Savage at WM7, vs. Hogan at WM6 and vs. Rude at SummerSlam '89), some good matches (like rest of the Savage matches, Rude at SNME, DiBiase matches and the Sgt. Slaughter match), and those matches that I had higher expectations for that for one reason or another ended up disappointing me, but which were still decent enough. (like the Mr.Perfect, Honky Tonk Man and Harley Race matches) 
Gonna have to watch some of the matches that were left out of this set later like the Slaughter match you mentioned and vs. Rude at WM 5 and vs. Savage at SummerSlam 1992.

Warrior did give me a vibe at the end that a documentary about the true story of his career would be in the making. Some reports said that he did have a cameracrew following him around during Mania time iirc, so maybe they filmed some footage for that or some other future project, or both? Who knows?

I wasn't that big of a fan of the Warrior before his death, but after watching this and his HOF speech last week, as much as I hate to "be that guy", 
I must admit that I became a fan of his. Sadly I was a bit too late.


Pillman's an interesting guy no doubt about it. A great story that ended very unfortunately. 
I've watched the documentary part but haven't touched the match selection that much yet. 
Will do so soon enough though.

Most likely still gonna do the Savage comp. first, because those matches with Warrior really made me wanna see a lot more of him.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

From just about everything I've seen from Tyler Black on the indies, he wasn't much of a spot monkey. Well, he may have started out that in the IWA-MS days, but once he came into the ROH scene in 2007 he was a phenomenal athlete and wrestler. Loads of great tag matches with Jimmy Jacobs in the Age of the Fall until he became that guy that would almost steal the show in singles matches when he's in one. I say almost because Bryan Danielson was still the company too.  Excellent at being the underdog and taking an ass whipping before making the miraculous comeback with his unorthodox high octane offense. So many fantastic matches against Nigel, Danielson, Roddy, Aries, etc. The fans turned on him when he finally became the ROH Champion (don't really remember why) but he still put on excellent matches from what I saw. He can of course BE spotty at times (who can't?) but it's been toned down year after year and he's polished it into a controlled frenzy. The only real time I can think of Tyler being spotty may be against Davey Richards, but Davey Richards can bring out the best or worst in anyone at any given time. 

For those who loved the Bryan/Rollins matches we've seen in WWE so far, please take the time to seek out their series of matches from ROH. The 3 match series they had on HDNet is some of my favorite stuff from '09.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

MoxleyMoxx said:


> I mainly watched it because of his comments too, but the DVD wasn't that bad match quality wise either, if anything, there was a lot of variety.
> *There were some great matches (like vs. Savage at WM7, vs. Hogan at WM6 and vs. Rude at SummerSlam '89)*, some good matches (like rest of the Savage matches, Rude at SNME, DiBiase matches and the Sgt. Slaughter match), and those matches that I had higher expectations for that for one reason or another ended up disappointing me, but which were still decent enough. (like the Mr.Perfect, Honky Tonk Man and Harley Race matches)
> *Gonna have to watch some of the matches that were left out of this set later like the Slaughter match you mentioned and vs. Rude at WM 5 and vs. Savage at SummerSlam 1992.*
> 
> Warrior did give me a vibe at the end that a documentary about the true story of his career would be in the making. Some reports said that he did have a cameracrew following him around during Mania time iirc, so maybe they filmed some footage for that or some other future project, or both? Who knows?


That's the most frustrating part. I already have those great matches, and wanted those matches that were left off. Oh well. Don't know what they were saving it for, 'cause it's not like they were gonna do another Warrior set.

Yeah, they were filming something for the network. Apparently they're gonna air a four part behind the scenes series on Warrior. At least I think that's the gist of what I read. Was skimming.




> Pillman's an interesting guy no doubt about it. A great story that ended very unfortunately.
> I've watched the documentary part but haven't touched the match selection that much yet.
> Will do so soon enough though.
> 
> Most likely still gonna do the Savage comp. first, because those matches with Warrior really made me wanna see a lot more of him.


I wish we could have heard from him in his own words before he died. 

I have that set. It's pretty comprehensive, in terms of rarely seen matches. I like that they included a bunch of Savage's promos. 




Jack Evans 187 said:


> From just about everything I've seen from Tyler Black on the indies, he wasn't much of a spot monkey.


Yeah, never understood that criticism. There was some no-selling in terms of ROH using near falls quite constantly, but that was something that went across the board in ROH, from what I've seen.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Warrior set is awesome. I feel like I'm 10 again and Mom just made Pizza rolls. Good times!! 

Also, I will go the full ***** on Warrior/Savage Wrestlemania 7 and Warrior/Rude Summerslam 89 was great. Come at me, haters.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> The Warrior set is awesome. I feel like I'm 10 again and Mom just made Pizza rolls. Good times!!
> 
> Also, I will go the full ***** on Warrior/Savage Wrestlemania 7 and Warrior/Rude Summerslam 89 was great. Come at me, haters.



Nah mang, it's all about the Summerslam match in 1990. That's a 12 minute blast of action that has to be up there for top 10-15 matches in SS history. Love love love it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't blame you a bit on Savage/Warrior, even though I have it at only ****3/4 myself. C'mon, who can possibly hate a match that much well done in all aspects (character work, storytelling, actual wrestling and emotion to name a few)?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I've started taking a liking to Warrior in the past week and then he just happened to die in the middle of it all. Gonna prioritize his highest rated matches (mainly Hogan) on watch list asap.

On another note, I rewatched the Orton/Cesaro match from two months ago and it's even better than I remembered it being. Considering how great Orton's recent run has been, I might revise the top 100 list and update it. It's as if once the list was put together, WWE also decided to repush him and he's been on a roll since then - not even 2-3 months did it take for my list to become outdated.  (maybe I should use a happy smiley instead )


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Warrior's two best matches were at SS 92 and 89. I think me and Yeah are the only ones that see the forest from the trees and realize that the SS 92 match was better than the Mania match. Then again, I could be assuming too much from Yeah.

I'm shocked at how much I enjoyed Orton/Cena from RAW this year. Shit made me laugh so much.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

It's ironic that I was watching all of the shows where he was at the pinnacle of his career.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I've started taking a liking to Warrior in the past week and then he just happened to die in the middle of it all. Gonna prioritize his highest rated matches (mainly Hogan) on watch list asap.
> 
> On another note, I rewatched the Orton/Cesaro match from two months ago and it's even better than I remembered it being. Considering how great Orton's recent run has been, I might revise the top 100 list and update it. It's as if once the list was put together, WWE also decided to repush him and he's been on a roll since then - not even 2-3 months did it take for my list to become outdated.  (maybe I should use a happy smiley instead )



I remember that match vividly, mostly because it took place on Valentines Day and I managed to get my girl to sit and watch Smackdown after I took her out to dinner 

Definitely worth staying up to watch it though, that match made both guys look great. I was even more amazed that Cesaro managed to surpass it with Cena on Raw. He and Bryan have been just KILLING it for the past year plus. And yes, since that December 16 match with Bryan, Orton has been mostly awesome too aside from the RR match.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

ATF said:


> Don't blame you a bit on Savage/Warrior, even though I have it at only ****3/4 myself. C'mon, who can possibly hate a match that much well done in all aspects (character work, storytelling, actual wrestling and emotion to name a few)?


The ending wasn't really all that great if you're a Savage fan.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Nah mang, it's all about the Summerslam match in 1990. That's a 12 minute blast of action that has to be up there for top 10-15 matches in SS history. Love love love it.



Oh I actually enjoy the Warrior/Rude cage match fron 1990 as well. Not sure I'd put it in the top 10-15 Summerslam matches but it is fun for what it is. I really dig the 1989 match though. Rude was great in that match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

TheGMofGods said:


> The ending wasn't really all that great if you're a Savage fan.


Yes and no. I was super sad at the time that Savage lost. But the way Warrior pinned him like Savage use to back in his early heel WWF days was great. Also, even as a 10 year old I was like no way he is going to "retire" and sure enough he was "back" 7 months later. I see what you are saying though. God I love this match! I watched it like 5 times last week. Still thought it would have been a cool idea for Warrior to do commentary on it. All due respect to his match with Hogan but WM 7 was Warrior's best match I thought.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well yeah, no shit Sherlock. Seeing any guy that you're a fan of lose is never an ending that's that good for you. But what the fuck - the Retirement thing was rather bullshit in the long term (Warrior actually kicked it out of the WWF before Savage did), and the post-match scene was so beautiful that I could forgive that. Still, yeah it is true that the ending itself is far from well executed, but it's still just a flaw that retreats from a still amazing match. Imo, that is.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm shocked at how much I enjoyed Orton/Cena from RAW this year.


Finally you're getting it! (Y)



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I remember that match vividly, mostly because it took place on Valentines Day and I managed to get my girl to sit and watch Smackdown after I took her out to dinner
> 
> Definitely worth staying up to watch it though, that match made both guys look great. I was even more amazed that Cesaro managed to surpass it with Cena on Raw. He and Bryan have been just KILLING it for the past year plus. And yes, since that December 16 match with Bryan, Orton has been mostly awesome too aside from the RR match.


Now that you mention it, I have to rewatch Cesaro/Cena too. Was absolutely awesome iirc and have no reason to believe it'll go down.

I looked through profightdb and there are about 15 Orton matches after MITB that are in easy contention for making an updated version of my top 100. He capped off his face run nicely with the awesome triple threat vs RVD & Christian. Then his heel run was going slow for a bit outside of Cody & Goldust matches as well as NOC with Bryan (which I highly enjoyed on rewatch). But yep, after TLC he's finally found that fire in him - both on the mic and in the ring. Hopefully he keeps it up for the rest of the year.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> All of those points and criticisms are very fair, don't really have another response to it as I think we've both stated our points fairly succinctly. Good stuff (Y)
> 
> *Are we in agreement atleast that Rollins looks ready for a GREAT singles career?* I think it was in the lead up to Summerslam, when Rollins had that absolutely kick ass match with Bryan on Raw that I became convinced he's heading for big things. Unlike Reigns, you really can't make the argument that Bryan carried that match at all, both guys chipped in equally. That was one of the 3-4 best Raw matches all year IMO. My only concern with Rollins is, he's such a good sneaky little shit heel, character wise, but work wise he bumps and flies around so well I feel it might be difficult to keep him heel. Maybe his future is "just" as a bad ass tweener. Who knows. I definitely see a bright future for Seth though, he's one of those guys that always manages to stand out for his individual brilliance, no matter how many people he's sharing the ring with.


Oh yes, yes we are. :agree:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I wanna see a Reigns/Rollins/Ambrose triple threat at Mania 31 for the title. One goes in as champ, one wins the rumble and one wins MitB and holds it until Mania. Could be epic.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I wanna see a Reigns/Rollins/Ambrose triple threat at Mania 31 for the title. One goes in as champ, one wins the rumble and one wins MitB and holds it until Mania. Could be epic.



After finally seeing Bryan get his moment at WM 31, I'm in favor of the slow burn with the Shield. Personally I'd like to see them continue to function as a unit until Summerslam a the very least. Rollins is ready, but Reigns still needs some seasoning and honestly I think Ambrose could do with a bit more as well. Then, once they break up, I'd like to see them work as singles guys for atleast a year before there is any talk of them winning the strap. They can compete in title matches and such but I don't think any of them should hold the big belt for atleast another year to year and a half. It's so much more fulfilling to see guys work there way to the top. I'm not in favor of anyone just getting shoved into the world title scene, it takes a while to build a guy to the point that fans will see him as championship material. The only exception to this rule is Lesnar, but he's exceptional in every way imaginable and I don't see anyone ever matching his meteoric rise because that dude is definitely one of a kind.

Cesaro is much more ready than all the members of the Shield. I think he should be built up enough by next January that him winning the Rumble shouldn't be entirely out of the question. These things just take time.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm all for Cesaro taking the belt off Bryan. I'd love to see them have 2-3 great matches at PPVs this summer/fall/winter. Fuck yeah. I don't see Cesaro as champ though for another year and a half or so. Remember it took Bryan how long to get the title? I know I know the Summerslam and Night of Champions wins are technically title reigns but you know what I mean. Legit reign I mean.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Couple of matches I've seen in my spurt of interest today;

Flair vs Funk GAB 89 *****
Luger vs Hansen Starrcade 90 ***1/4
Doom vs Arn/Windham Starrcade 90 ***1/2
Armstrong vs Eaton WrestleWar 91 ***1/4
Luger vs Spivey WrestleWar 91 ***1/2
WarGames 91 ****
Steiners vs Luger/Sting Superbrawl 91 ***1/4
Eaton vs Arn Superbrawl 91 ***1/4

Ahhh. Flair/Funk match is what I'd pick as the best match of 1989. Better than the Flair/Steamer series. Rivals Luger/Flair at WrestleWar 90 for my favourite match ever.

WarGames wasn't that surefire perfect match I remember :< Shame but it's still a excellent match-up.
Rest is great, Luger/Spivey exceeding expectations.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Love Flair/Funk GAB and CotC I Quit match. Both amazing. 

I watched Starrcade 1990 the other day for the first time in a long time. Really enjoyed it. Luger/Hansen was really good I thought.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If Cesaro ever beats Bryan for the WWEWHC Title, I swear to my girlfriend (who's a Cesaro Girl too, even though she's more into _*Zayn*_ than anyone) that I'll go to the streets and start YODELING :cesaro


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I wanna see a Reigns/Rollins/Ambrose triple threat at Mania 31 for the title. One goes in as champ, one wins the rumble and one wins MitB and holds it until Mania. Could be epic.


At the beginning of your post I thought you meant the US title and I got it...then you lost me at "one wins the rumble".


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Desecrated said:


> Couple of matches I've seen in my spurt of interest today;
> 
> Flair vs Funk GAB 89 *****
> Luger vs Hansen Starrcade 90 ***1/4
> ...




I can't say it's the outright best, but personally, Funk/Flair GAB is my favorite bout of 1989, my favorite bout of Funks career, AND my all time favorite Flair match. Unpopular opinion, probably, but man do I love it. Funk is just a complete psycho. Nice to see someone else praise it as highly as I do (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I actually have only seen 2-3 matches with Seth as "Tyler Black" in ROH, and they weren't really great or really bad. Just average stuff. *I've heard some people say he was a "spot monkey" (hate that term but w/e) during his Indie days. Is that accurate?* Because if so, I think it's astonishing the difference between that and who he is now. On the list of qualities I see in Seth, a "spot monkey" is about the furthest thing possible from who he is as a wrestler now. All his big spots are done in completely sensible fashion and always add rather than detract from the action at hand. And he has some freakishly awesome athleticism, his balance is incredible.


No. Those who said that were too busy looking for nothing but "TECHNICAL WRESTLING" from ROH or some crap. Oh those comments are burned into my mind from how invalid the thought process was. Seriously. One guy was using a headlock gripe as a negative one time. Just too much.

but dude has been a star since about 2006 - 2007. I was hooked instantly though. He's gotten even better, which blows me away. As I was already convinced of his status as being a favorite period when I saw him moshing w/crowds to Haste the Day at IWA-MS events. Dammit that's the coolest.

btw what matches did you see?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> No. Those who said that were too busy looking for nothing but "TECHNICAL WRESTLING" from ROH or some crap. Oh those comments are burned into my mind from how invalid the thought process was. Seriously. One guy was using a headlock gripe as a negative one time. Just too much.
> 
> but dude has been a star since about 2006 - 2007. I was hooked instantly though. He's gotten even better, which blows me away. As I was already convinced of his status as being a favorite period when I saw him moshing w/crowds to Haste the Day at IWA-MS events. Dammit that's the coolest.
> 
> btw what matches did you see?



It's been a while, but I wanna say there was one against Aries from maybe 2008-2009, one that was a triple threat with Roderick Strong and someone else, then another one was a tag with Necro Butcher (only match I've ever seen with Necro butcher) against a team that had Davey Richards on it.

I remember absolutely dick about any of these matches, they could be way better than I remembered or they could have been awful. I do know they were all on the same ROH DVD my friend had. 

What are some of the classics that Rollins had in those days? Didn't he have a classic with Danielson at some point?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I used to really like both the Wrestlemania and the Summerslam cage match between Rude and Warrior, but on rewatch, the WM match was awful and the Summerslam cage match felt rushed and didn't make much sense. They had a Sunday Night Main Event match that was far better than those two matches. Also recall a couple house show matches being good as well.

:lmao at this Paul Roma vs. Alex Wright match. I know Paul Roma sucked, but I didn't know that he was unprofessional too. Poor Alex Wright. Dude couldn't catch a break despite how awesome he was. The scary part is that this match wasn't even the worst of the night. I'm gonna go and count how many moves Hogan and Vader no sold/shittily sold in the main event.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> It's been a while, but I wanna say there was one against Aries from maybe 2008-2009, one that was a triple threat with Roderick Strong and someone else, then another one was a tag with Necro Butcher (only match I've ever seen with Necro butcher) against a team that had Davey Richards on it.
> 
> I remember absolutely dick about any of these matches, they could be way better than I remembered or they could have been awful. I do know they were all on the same ROH DVD my friend had.
> 
> What are some of the classics that Rollins had in those days? Didn't he have a classic with Danielson at some point?


Damn, 99% of the Black vs Aries series was great if you ask me. Thought those two had fabulous chemistry night in and night out. Then again, MAYBE their Unscripted III match wasn't as strong, but I could be wrong. Just b/c the nature of that night. _(pardon the super duper excellent wonderful Danielson vs Jacobs match that blows my mind being on the same event)_

Triple Threat w/Strong was probably the ROH World Championship match that included Aries too. From the Big Bang PPV in 2010. Not looking up stuff atm to know how many three way's Black had in ROH, but I'm positive this is around the only one.

No clue on the tag. But again, not looking anything up. Wasn't even sure Black & Necro had a match where they got to be a solo duo, haha.

Yeah, he's had plenty of matches vs Danielson. the trilogy in 2008 & then another series on TV rekindled in 2009. All are basically worth seeing. I use "basically" b/c part of me doesn't remember the TV stuff 100% to know if they aren't just similar sort of carbon copy matches from the original three, but still good matches. Kind of paradox there. But you really can't go wrong there. Black proves his worth to the ROH fans in these matches. Prior he was nothing more than doing tags w/Jacobs in 2007. Black vs Nigel matches were always exciting most of the time too. And b/c I'm a guy who goes ape for it, watch Black vs El Generico from Night of the Butcher II (2008) if you can find it. Rollins vs Zayn. What's not to love? Honestly, the guy rarely ever had a bad match. I'm trying to think of one and I don't really have anything leaping out. He even meshed well w/Davey Richards on a near constant too. Got the best match out of Davey to boot, in 2010.



funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao at this Paul Roma vs. Alex Wright match. I know Paul Roma sucked, but I didn't know that he was unprofessional too. Poor Alex Wright. Dude couldn't catch a break despite how awesome he was. The scary part is that this match wasn't even the worst of the night. I'm gonna go and count how many moves Hogan and Vader no sold/shittily sold in the main event.


Almost an awesome post till the comical slander on a terrific big fight feel main event. LET IT GO. But Rhodes vs Bully. Jesus friggin christ. How? How is it possible?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Seriously considering NO'ing every match from JD 04 until I get to the last 2 matches... because I don't think I COULD sit through the fucking undercard on this pile of turd :lmao.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Seriously considering NO'ing every match from JD 04 until I get to the last 2 matches... because I don't think I COULD sit through the fucking undercard on this pile of turd :lmao.


Guerrero v. JBL :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's actually pretty easy sans the matches w/dames & Chavo, Cal. But we're different on that front. And Cena vs Dupree is quite enjoyable to say the least. And the opener rocks.

Wait, just noticed you didn't want to skip Undertaker's match. Haha. Understandable, but it's like...SO flat. Although I guess the idea of Booker getting squashed by Taker is something you're cool w/, if I kind of know you by now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I remember not liking the Undertaker/Booker match at all, but it's Undertaker. I can't skip his stuff lol.

But everything on paper just looks sooo fucking dull and shitty. I don't wanna watch any of it .


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Yes and no. I was super sad at the time that Savage lost. But the way Warrior pinned him like Savage use to back in his early heel WWF days was great. Also, even as a 10 year old I was like no way he is going to "retire" and sure enough he was "back" 7 months later. I see what you are saying though. God I love this match! I watched it like 5 times last week. Still thought it would have been a cool idea for Warrior to do commentary on it. All due respect to his match with Hogan but WM 7 was Warrior's best match I thought.





ATF said:


> Well yeah, no shit Sherlock. Seeing any guy that you're a fan of lose is never an ending that's that good for you. But what the fuck - the Retirement thing was rather bullshit in the long term (Warrior actually kicked it out of the WWF before Savage did), and the post-match scene was so beautiful that I could forgive that. Still, yeah it is true that the ending itself is far from well executed, but it's still just a flaw that retreats from a still amazing match. Imo, that is.


I was actually referring to the 5 finisher spot. For a Savage fan, or any fan of Pro Wrestling really, you can't deny that Warrior kicking out after getting hit by Savage's finisher FIVE TIMES is a giant "what the fuck" moment. I know Warrior is the face and Savage is the heel, but there's simply no defending that spot. Once or twice is fine, but five times...I mean, if Seth Rollins hit his finisher three straight times on John Cena and then finally went for a pin, and Cena kicked out, EVERYONE would throw a fit. I know times are different, but again, there's just no possible way you can defend that. And then for Savage to kick out of Warriors finisher, but then be pinned after three random shoulder tackles and having Warrior put his foot on Savage to pin him is just stupid. Savage kicking out of Warriors finisher was an awesome and unexpected moment, but they could have easily followed it up with something much, much better. But yes, the post match is incredible.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker and Booker never worked though. Not like there was a lot of matches, but two on PPV and the better one is Judgment Day and it's barely mediocre, so that's saying something. Again, I fully get it. Worth it just to see Taker, tbhayley.

I know you dislike Dupree, so there's the logic there. But lumping the RVD/Mysterio vs Dudleys tag is something I didn't expect. Not that it was hard, but it's easily the second best thing on the show. And actually "good" too boot. That's just me. I always found it appealing.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Remember when Jim Duggan shat on Alex Wright as well in 1999? What is it with wrestlers not wanting to work with Das Wanderkind? Gonna go watch Wright's awesome 1996. Outside of the match with "he who shall not be named", dude brought it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Bryan/Rollins Southern Navigation 08 (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wasn't the Duggan match just b/c he was a random replacement for..Buff Bagwell, iirc? I get that there. Sandbagging due to lack of effort to begin w/. It's not right, but eh. Better than Roma's idiotic logic.

DAS does rule though. Good chap he is.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Alex Wright will forever be the man, if nothing else for the LEGENDARY Dance.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Undertaker and Booker never worked though. Not like there was a lot of matches, but two on PPV and the better one is Judgment Day and it's barely mediocre, so that's saying something. Again, I fully get it. Worth it just to see Taker, tbhayley.
> 
> I know you dislike Dupree, so there's the logic there. But lumping the RVD/Mysterio vs Dudleys tag is something I didn't expect. Not that it was hard, but it's easily the second best thing on the show. And actually "good" too boot. That's just me. I always found it appealing.


Dudleys were stale beyond belief to me by 04, and RVD is RVD, so 3 of them involved in one match makes me not wanna watch it even if it does have Rey Rey.

Plus I REALLY just wanna watch Eddie/JBL .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

List of wrestlers I hear people talk about but I've never really seen much of:

Alex Wright
Austin Aries
Kevin Steen
Necro Butcher
Eddie Edwards and Davey Richards
Sami Callahan (only seen his 2 bouts with Finlay)
Tyler Black (seen plenty of Seth Rollins, obviously)
La Parka
Tenryu

I'm pretty awful, aren't I? If you guys are familiar with any of the guys I listed and think they are good, some match reccomendations would be much appreciated


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I skipped studying organic chemistry just for this.


Ladies and gentlemen, Alicia Fox and Paige somehow had a good match.

What the hell is going on? Even Orton/Batista vs. Usos was pretty fun. And yes, Duggan was Bagwell's replacement, who refused to job to Alex Wright. For shame. Does Bagwell seriously think he's better than :jpl


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I skipped studying organic chemistry just for this.
> 
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen, Alicia Fox and Paige somehow had a good match.
> ...



I normally don't like to just shit on guys, but in this case I'll make an exception: Buff Bagwell is a worthless turd as it pertains to pro wrestling. Seriously, has that guy ever done anything even remotely good? I remember absolutely LOATHING him as a kid. Even my 11 year old mind could tell he was a talentless hack. I wouldn't even care enough to comment on him if he didn't constantly make an ass out of himself by denigrating actual good pro wrestlers like Bryan, Punk, Hunter, and others.


----------



## Crossface (Sep 22, 2006)

ATF said:


> If Cesaro ever beats Bryan for the WWEWHC Title, I swear to my girlfriend (who's a Cesaro Girl too, even though she's more into _*Zayn*_ than anyone) that I'll go to the streets and start YODELING :cesaro


If Kane wins the unified title I swore to all 12 of my incredibly sexy girlfriends that I'd do a lap of Vegas naked in my Lamborghini naked with the window down.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Crossface said:


> If Kane wins the unified title I swore to all 12 of my incredibly sexy girlfriends that I'd do a lap of Vegas naked in my Lamborghini naked with the window down.


Who are you and why don't you post here more often?

RAW so far has been fun. Short matches that have all been good. Rusev rules. Bagwell drools. Wonder who The Shield will face?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Not even watching Raw. Just finding it incredibly difficult to somehow get sufficiently invested in the product right now.Haven't really been able to since August, but I was still somewhat optimistic up to late January. And I think what they're doing with Bryan now is great. But it just isn't the same to me, tbh. 

Is anyone besides me ITT not a fan of Roman Reigns? I assume most of you are fans of his, tbh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Wonder who The Shield will face?


Undertaker, Sting and Philip. Sting will turn on Taker and we'll get Taker/Sting at WM31. :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Enjoying Raw right now... Sandow's first promo in forever going into a Wyatt (and Cena... <_<) promo and still to come, Barrett/Ziggler and The Shield's match! :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I looked at what has happened on RAW, PLEASE tell me that Henry/Cesaro and Swagger/Sheamus were :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Henry/Cesaro was pretty good. Sheamus/Swagger was... well, it wasn't bad. Sweet looking brogue kick at the end. Also Sheamus is either hurt, or selling extremely well.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

The tradition of DB not closing out ppv's as WWE champion begins at ER with Kane.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hopefully it ends with Kane at ER as well.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

C2D, did you see this? :lmao


Watched *Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter at Royal Rumble 1991*.

Earlier, I talked about how certain moments are seared into my memory. It's best if viewing the Sherri/Warrior moment from earlier in the show, before watching this match, because it explains a lot of things.

I'd watched Slaughter on the "50 Greatest" DVD, and it made me lol seeing him lead a crowd in the national anthem, and then him coming down in Middle Eastern garb. I can't believe he actually got such real heat for that, because it was so ridiculous.

Anywhoo, it worked great here, because I think that this best encapsulates Warrior's insane energy. Had the crowd in a frenzy just from running down and fucking shit up.

Look at Sgt. Slaughter with that big man bumping. He was working his ass off, selling Warrior's offense. It was cool to see a big dude go over the top turnbuckles like that.

Things went downhill when Slaughter was on offense, which thankfully wasn't too long. My main problem is that nothing he was doing looked hard hitting at all. That was one of the softest looking backbreakers I've ever seen, and when he was putting his boot to Warrior's back, it looked so damn soft.

Also, there was a bearhug that felt like it lasted for about forty five minutes.

But yay, here comes Sherri & Savage to save the day. I liked their involvement here, because it fit the whole crazy and energetic vibe that Warrior had started off earlier.

Plus, like I said, it provided some great, nostalgic, moments for me.

Overall, it was a pretty enjoyable match, especially with Sherri & Savage's antics beforehand and during the match.

*** 1/4.



In other news, this RAW is sucking the life out of me. Felt like it's been going on for about 10 hours. omg. And there's still 40 minutes left...


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Looks like we're getting Kane/Bryan and Evolution/Shield at Extreme Rules. That works for me.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Kane being fed to Bryan I like. He's not credible enough to actually make people be pissed that he loses, and he's accomplished enough that you won't hear smarks say "Bryan buried Kane!!!!". This might be his last big feud as well.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can't really recall any match from Slaughter in the 90s that was good. Early 80s Slaughter is GOAT. Especially his holy trinity in WWE. As time went on though, I'm guessing his body just shut down or something. At least he got the world title and a Mania main event.

Even Cena can't close out PPVs as champion :side:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I doubt Bryan not main eventing ER is something to make a big deal out of. Cena didn't main event ER last year as champion either, but since he's not an internet darling, nobody said anything about it.



LilOlMe said:


> C2D, did you see this? :lmao


Of course!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Bryan is facing Kane at Extreme Rules? For real? That's a bit of a swerve. Cesaro vs. VAN DAM is happening sometime!? :mark: All of the dudes in this IC Tournament would be better champions than Langston...


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Glad Kane's being fed to Bryan, and won't be involved in the Shield vs. Evolution match. Much better that way.

Wade Barrett makes his thigh slapping really obvious. Or maybe he's just always been the victim of unfortunate camera angles, but I ALWAYS notice it with him. I think maybe he slaps too slowly or something, and thus makes it really noticeable.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Mysterio and Del Rio also make the thigh slapping pretty obvious. Heck, even Tajiri has been a victim of camera revelation.

Now I know who Dolph Ziggler reminds me of. A better version of Ronnie Garvin. What a fun match!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Barrett/Ziggler- ***1/2... Really really good match, MOTN definitely. A bit clunky at times in the middle, but by the end they hit their stride and started producing some awesome stuff. Crowd was into it as well, which helped.

Part of me can't wait for Barrett/Sheamus next week, the two have awesome chemistry and always produce something good, if not great. Had an awesome match on Main Event last year, and I'm hoping to see a TV MOTYC next week from them as well.

... and then I remember, Sheamus will probably win, as usual.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I doubt Bryan not main eventing ER is something to make a big deal out of. Cena didn't main event ER last year as champion either, but since he's not an internet darling, nobody said anything about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course!


I seriously doubt Bryan's not main eventing ER. I could care less if Evolution is reuniting, Bryan for the most part has proven himself to be one of WWE's best draws at the moment. No way he doesn't close out the PPV facing Kane.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TheGMofGods said:


> I seriously doubt Bryan's not main eventing ER. I could care less if Evolution is reuniting, Bryan for the most part has proven himself to be one of WWE's best draws at the moment. No way he doesn't close out the PPV facing Kane.


It doesn't matter, Kane/Bryan is just not main event worthy. And drawing has nothing to do with it. Even Cena took a step back last year when he was champion for ER and MITB.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

EVOLUTION IS A MYSTERY

LINE IN THE SAND

BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION

:mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

LINE IN THE FUCKING SAND!!!!!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

:hunter rton2 :batista2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Pretty sweet ending, love dat theme and the beatdown was pretty good, but lol at the crowd giving no fucks for Evolution at first until they started beating down The Shield.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Evolution v Shield is rightfully going to main event


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Still marking over EVOLUTION :mark:

Never thought I would hear that theme song again lol. Lets hope this era continues to be great (Y)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

They used the theme?!?!?!

YES :mark:


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

The fuck cares about evolution in 2014? Alabama surely don't.

cool music aside. Don't really give a fuck. Batista is no longer the animal, Orton is no longer the legend killer, Flairs no longer, well, there.

Much rather preferred HHH v DB 2. But DB is obviously moving onto to bigger and better things. Like closing out the ppv with Kane I'm sure.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The product is legitimately enjoyable right now.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> The product is legitimately enjoyable right now.


It's been legitimately enjoyable for three years going. My god I love this era.

Extreme Rules is looking real good so far. Cena/Wyatt in a cage, Bryan/Monster Kane, Shield/Evolution, Swagger/Cesaro, an Intercontinental title match with meaning, and AJ/Paige. Hopefully the tag title match has a gimmick attached to it. Still a couple pieces missing, but this roster is killing it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

An IC title change would make me happy. Put it on Barrett.



The Cynical Miracle said:


> The fuck cares about evolution in 2014? Alabama surely don't.
> 
> cool music aside. Don't really give a fuck. Batista is no longer the animal, Orton is no longer the legend killer, Flairs no longer, well, there.
> 
> Much rather preferred HHH v DB 2. But DB is obviously moving onto to bigger and better things. Like closing out the ppv with Kane I'm sure.


I would've preferred Bryan/H II as well but I'm happy with Evolution/Shield. Had no interest in seeing a team of Batista, Orton and Kane.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson taking a backseat to irrelevant old guys on PPV. WWE's momentum back down again. Didn't take long.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> It's been legitimately enjoyable for three years going. My god I love this era.


Your gonna need some SPLAININ to do, product was generally bad outside of a few things from 2009-2013, only now have I found the majority of Raw enjoyable 

But EVOLUTION :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Danielson taking a backseat to irrelevant old guys on PPV. WWE's momentum back down again. Didn't take long.


The Shield being in a marquee match makes up for Bryan not getting top billing at ER for me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I thought they would've saved Shield/Evolution for Summerslam... suppose that's a bit too far out for them. Maybe Wyatts/Evolution for Summerslam? Although I can't see either going face, maybe they could spin it for Wyatt as one of his things he's preached about is bringing "the machine" down... whether he follows through with that on HHH or not remains to be seen. Sure beats the rumored HHH/Reigns match for Summerslam. 

But... eh, fuck that for right now. Hoping for a great match between the teams at Extreme Rules.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Shield have been in marquee matches basically since they've gotten here. Nothing new. Danielson taking the backseat his first time getting the chance. Yeah, no thanks.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

I don't think Bryan vs Kane screams MUST BUY THIS PPV in terms of general audiences. But that's just me.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Irrelevant old guys? This is Evolution we're talking about dammit!

But on a more serious note, what the heck is going on with Bryan? Filler match with Kane for the title in his first defense? Oh well, at least D-Bryan marks can't complain. They got what they wanted right? He's champion! I can just picture Tripes and Co. saying that laughing it up lol.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Bryan will get a good match out of Kane, specially if the match is an awesome gimmick like NHB or HIAC(doubt that happens). 

Evolution/Shield and Cena/Wyatt will be good, we're in for in for a fun ppv imo


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

One week later people are ok w/Batista main eventing the PPV over Danielson. 

Interesting. Who knew an entrance theme could have so much influence.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

As long as Kane tombstone's Bryan I will be more than satisfied.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> One week later people are ok w/Batista main eventing the PPV over Danielson.
> 
> Interesting. Who knew an entrance theme could have so much influence.


Batista is also only 18% of that match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Danielson taking a backseat to irrelevant old guys on PPV. WWE's momentum back down again. Didn't take long.


C'mon man, you and I both know that there's no better celebration of this ''new era'' than reforming a washed up group that disassembled ten years ago and have them overshadow the guy who won the WWE championship in the main event of WrestleMania against two of the members of the washed up group that disassembled ten years ago.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Cody sounds more petty than I do when I talk about 2005.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Bryan vs. Kane doesn't scream buys, but I believe they're banking on the reformation of Evolution to pull in the viewers. People will watch pretty much anything Bryan does these days anyway. The guy just went over all 3 members of Evolution on the biggest stage of the year, so I have no problem if he's "taking a backseat" and not going on last. Bryan vs. Kane (maybe a Last Man Standing match?) seems solid enough for me. Cena vs. Wyatt in the cage has me intrigued too.

I see Cesaro getting to the IC tournament finals against Barrett and then Swagger screwing him out of the win, thus leading to Cesaro vs. Swagger and Bad News Barrett taking the strap from Langston.

Someone needs to get the US Title off of Ambrose though. It's a complete and utter afterthought. Christian?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

BUT THAT SONG DOUGH.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> The Shield have been in marquee matches basically since they've gotten here. Nothing new. Danielson taking the backseat his first time getting the chance. Yeah, no thanks.


Not matches that have been positioned as the selling point/number one match of a PPV. I don't see the big deal about Bryan not headlining Extreme Rules. Realistically the only match they could've done with Bryan that would actually be big is a rematch with Hunter or some multi-man deal. Cena, Wyatt and Cesaro are all busy. Danielson will close PPVs when someone like that challenges him.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I really wish People didnt say reformation of Evolution, there is CLEARLY a member missing, wont give a rats ass until he shows up


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm not convinced that the six man main events over the title match, however if it is, then main eventing over Bryan/Kane isn't the worst thing in the world. Honestly have ZERO interest in Bryan/Kane and can't for the life of me figure out why they'd go that route, except that Orton and Batista are tied up with the Shield now, and Trips too. Guess I answered my own question. 

I would have liked to have seen this match delayed until Summerslam on a big stage, but with Extreme Rules being in the Izod, it should have a great crowd. Of course this ultimately leads to the Shield going over, which will be great. 

AND, I wasn't watching when Evolution was around the first time, so this is absolutely fine with me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> C'mon man, you and I both know that there's no better celebration of this ''new era'' than reforming a washed up group that disassembled ten years ago and have them overshadow the guy who won the WWE championship in the main event of WrestleMania against two of the members of the washed up group that disassembled ten years ago.


Sometimes I lose track of my wise ways to remember such apt scenarios.



funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao Cody sounds more petty than I do when I talk about 2005.


b/c I'm supposed to care? Sensitivity levels are pretty high among WWE fans these days. :hayden3


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Don't appreciate you callin me out like that SKINS!


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Best for business, judging be the general reaction/sentiment.

Also, I care about the Shield more than Bryan, so for the sake of their elevation, I'm happy about it.

Bryan will be fine, and will get huge matches with Brock and the like down the line, I'm sure of it.

Though I do feel bad for Bryan marks. Him vs. Kane sounds like a waste of time, but it's a blow-off, and a throw away PPV, I suppose. I think that he'll be in better shape as far as feuds are concerned, over the next few PPVs.

At some point I think they'll do Bryan vs. Cena again too.

I do get it, though, because it's always annoying to feel like someone's run is being wasted, or that someone is being wasted in general. That's why I'm just glad it's not my guy(s)...


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Another thing, Batista in Evolution is infinitely more tolerable than Batista chasing the title or anything else he could be doing. That's a positive.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> I'm not convinced that the six man main events over the title match, however if it is, then main eventing over Bryan/Kane isn't the worst thing in the world. Honestly have ZERO interest in Bryan/Kane and can't for the life of me figure out why they'd go that route, except that Orton and Batista are tied up with the Shield now, and Trips too. Guess I answered my own question.
> 
> I would have liked to have seen this match delayed until Summerslam on a big stage, but with Extreme Rules being in the Izod, it should have a great crowd. Of course this ultimately leads to the Shield going over, which will be great.
> 
> AND, I wasn't watching when Evolution was around the first time, so this is absolutely fine with me.


People think because of the names involved, Evoltuion was some great stable.

It wasn't.

Legit the same shit every week. I struggle to say any great rivalries Evolution had with anyone.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The big storyline for Bryan is over , if anyone doesn't think he'll lose some momentum is fucking delusional.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lol your post was the last I read, but I mean Evolution in general

#WHEREISNAITCH


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I think people are seriously overreacting to Bryan "settling" for Kane or any comments like that. It's his first defense, and he's recently battled half the main roster. He's faced Orton, Batista, Wyatt, and Triple H all on PPV or tv several times in the last few months. Why not give us someone he has a past with? Someone with some chemistry against him. Calm down guys, this reign could go for months. Still plenty of time to see defenses with Cesaro, Cena, Lesnar, etc.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I think people are seriously overreacting to Bryan "settling" for Kane or any comments like that. It's his first defense, and he's recently battled half the main roster. He's faced Orton, Batista, Wyatt, and Triple H all on PPV or tv several times in the last few months. Why not give us someone he has a past with? Someone with some chemistry against him. Calm down guys, this reign could go for months. Still plenty of time to see defenses with Cesaro, Cena, Lesnar, etc.


Exactly how I feel.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I think people are seriously overreacting to Bryan "settling" for Kane or any comments like that. It's his first defense, and he's recently battled half the main roster. He's faced Orton, Batista, Wyatt, and Triple H all on PPV or tv several times in the last few months. Why not give us someone he has a past with? Someone with some chemistry against him. Calm down guys, this reign could go for months. Still plenty of time to see defenses with Cesaro, Cena, Lesnar, etc.




Exactly. The die-hard Bryan marks on here crying about this are unbearable. Shield/Evolution is a much BIGGER match they can give Bryan at this ppv.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I actually like the scenario vs Kane. It makes the bit come full circle. But it's not that. It's the sense of momentum or so called "change". Doesn't feel any different. Still was down for the eight man tag at Extreme Rules. Kills two birds w/one stone so nothing has to be diluted down into two different gimmick matches. Then what's the next show, Payback or something? Could have done each separate match there. It spreads it out. Keeps everyone intertwined & before we know it MITB is around the corner and then SummerSlam. I never cared about the big time heels to begin w/so that hasn't changed for well, months. Just b/c WM worked didn't make me wear rose tinted glasses to figure everything else would. That and Shield vs Wyatts clearly overshadowed the Chamber match in Feb. But it still wasn't put on last. If WWE has faith in Danielson, the fans will care about the match vs Kane enough to react well. It doesn't have to be the "definitive" highlight or MOTN in most people's eyes, but by company emphasis, why shouldn't the championship grudge match go on last w/the notion that the championship is their be all; end all? 

Again. Look at myself, putting logic out there. It's a scenario I'll lose 10/10.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I think there's still a possibility of us getting a big 8-man at Payback. One to finally end it all. Some sort of stipulation where if Bryan's team wins then none of the members of team Evolution/Kane will have the chance to challenge Bryan for the title during that reign. That of course has a higher chance of happening if Punk somehow returns at the PPV. I'm getting way ahead of myself though. Extreme Rules!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Seems so ass backwards.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Seems so ass backwards.


You already said it, you're gonna lose the logic battle in wrestling. 

I of course have no idea what will happen in the next month or so.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Unfortunately, but aye, that's how it always is.

At least Cesaro still seems to be on the right track. :hb


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I just want to put out there that one year ago the wwe championship match was john Cena vs fucking Ryback 

I still think Bryan/Kane might close the show, assuming Bryan is back next week, we'll see which feud they will push harder 

And lol at someone saying evolution didn't have great feuds, that's where they were best at 


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----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Daniel Bryan vs. Kane should be good. They had a pretty darn good match a couple months ago on Main Event so I'm optimistic about this match up. I don't mind Bryan facing Kane as his first title defense since the motherfucker beat Triple H, Batista, and Randy Orton in one night and in Wrestlemania of all places.

Plus, Shield vs. Evolution sounds like an awesome match up. Old School vs. New School, that's a great clash of styles that should make for entertaining tv.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Real positive I have going into Extreme Rules is Barrett may leave w/a championship. Giving me a moment to really remember. :homer3

dunno if it will make the card but Rybaxel are so getting a shot at the tag straps. Why else would they be getting built up as credible atm?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Rybaxel vs usos reeks of the preshow 

Also reeks of meh 


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----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah it'll be shit. At least I can enjoy seeing a few weeks of Ryback & Axel winning some matches. Little things for the people I get a kick out of.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I actually find ryback hilarious in nature, his facial expressions are GOAT 

But Axel is just shit, and people try to tell me he's good in the ring : lel


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----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He's solid, albeit, far from Mr. Personality. He's fine. Difference between "bad" and not having a major "hook" to your game. He was having good matches on Superstars before the push, even. Mainly in the series w/Alex Riley.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Don't care about any of the current tag teams now that Swagger and Cesaro split up. Give me Rowan and Harper as tag champs. Now Usos vs those two is a match I'd want to watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Happened before and were still crap. Harper & Rowan had good matches w/Prime Time Players though. Well, and basically everyone else who wasn't squashed in a minute. Like Tons of Funk. Shame Tensai retired apparently. That team had a real good match vs Rollins/Reigns too.

but how does one not care for Goldust & Rhodes? If booking is the reason, then so be it. But those dudes are great. Especially Dustin who's floating around meanwhile he's WWE's goldmine. No pun intended. Damn this company.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Happened before and were still crap. Harper & Rowan had good matches w/Prime Time Players though. Well, and basically everyone else who wasn't squashed in a minute. Like Tons of Funk. Shame Tensai retired apparently. That team had a real good match vs Rollins/Reigns too.
> 
> but how does one not care for Goldust & Rhodes? If booking is the reason, then so be it. But those dudes are great. Especially Dustin who's floating around meanwhile he's WWE's goldmine. No pun intended. Damn this company.


Forgot Cody and Goldust were even still a team. I'd definitely care about them if they were doing something worthwhile instead of taking turns wrestling Fandango.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE literally killed them off and I can't figure out why. Usos aren't doing anything except being jobbers. Outlaws was a joke that went nowhere. Duo didn't even split. So what gives? 

Pulled a TNA booking job here. Used 'em for a spell, then just took the rug out from under 'em for no solid reason.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cody and goldust along with the shield were legit the only reason I was tuning into shows for a while, thT feud was brilliant 


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----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Every time it looks like Cody's building some momentum it dies a sudden death.

Wonder if they'll put a stip on Cesaro/Swagger. 2 out of 3 falls would be pimp.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Meh @ Kane/Bryan.

That Ziggler/Barrett match last night, though. :banderas


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Considering the rumor is a one and done scenario for Cesaro vs Swagger, it's doubtful. May just be a straight up match. Show could be akin to 2012 where the undercard is traditional and the main events get the gimmicks. Of course, who's to say until it's all made official.

Barrett vs Ziggler last night was nothing special. CM Punk chant humored me. Happy to see Barrett rolling atm. Sheamus vs Swagger on the other hand. Good shit.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

So Kane's bringing his mask back? How the hell does he deserve a title match?

_Yawn._


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

The Great American Bash 91 is so poor. Such an uninspiring event.

Not sure what exactly I want to think about the Morton/Gibson match. I thought the gritty tempo and limb work was well worked. Good amount of intensity. But the length of the Morton control segments was overly long and it should of finished a little bit quicker with a hotter finish which would of been easily capable. Extended limb work in a blood feud is just a recipe for disaster but they had everything else going for it.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> List of wrestlers I hear people talk about but I've never really seen much of:
> 
> Alex Wright
> Austin Aries
> ...


I could give you some kinda list of good Callihan matches, but first I'd wanna know how you feel about deathmatches / more hardcore kinda stuff?

edit: most of the matches will probably be from his CZW run


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MoxleyMoxx said:


> I could give you some kinda list of good Callihan matches, but first I'd wanna know how you feel about deathmatches / more hardcore kinda stuff?


Well, I love Foley so I definitely enjoy hardcore stuff. But when it comes to breaking light tubes on a dudes face, syringes, stapling people's tongues, or using a jig saw on someone's forehead (fake or not, that almost made me hurl in Moxley's match with BD, as good as the rest of it was) I just kind of reach a point where it makes me sick. As long as there is psychology involved and it's not overly grotesque, I'm cool with some hardcore.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

IDK the date, but I saw a Kevin Steen vs Sami Calihan match from 2012 that was fucking amazing just because Steen was beating the shit out of him. 

if you havent seen the iron man from PWG with Adam Cole last summer get on that immediately


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Backlash 2000 review

BAH GAWS ITS AUSTIN 

Match #1: Edge & Christian Vs X-Pac & Road Dogg*

This match should be awesome; all 4 guys had career years in 2000 so this should be a boatload of fun. I also remember liking it a good bit. Road dogg does some STIFF kicks to the back, those looked pretty painful, TORRIE is at ringside :mark:. Match ends up being relatively short but it worked as an opener. I thought E&C really carried this match from meh to AWESOMe. Only thing that comes to mind then talking about horribleness in this match is DEBRA DOING RING ANNOUNCING :|. No but srsly I loved this, just another classic AE tag match to add to the long list of tags that were just AWESOME. Most include 2 cool, but this match was better than that might have been, even if I’m not a huge Road Dogg fan. ****1/4

CAL SCALE: 2 

Match #2: Dean Malenko vs Scotty 2 Hotty *

:mark: I remember this match being so much fun. And it being the best match Scotty ever had, maybe Deans best in the WWF? I cant really think of any other outstanding singles matches from him tbh, at least on ppv as I have seen very little TV in WWF history, that is changing thanks to the network, been watching some of those 1993 Raws they’ve been putting up, nowhere near as bad as I thought they would be. Match is so much fun, held up tremendously as both mens best match in the WWF at least from what I have seen. This was just an amazingly fun back and forth match and was the good that kept on giving in terms of the match slowly getting better throughout the match. I also thought that the length was perfect in terms of it not going to long but the match was given plenty of time to evolve. *****

CAL SCALE: 5

Match #3: The Big Bossman & Bull Buchanan Vs The APA*

If the APA wasn’t in this match I would likely skip it and move on but I love the APA so I hope they will carry this match into greatness, woudnt surprise me if they make it an awesome brawl, too bad the other 2 lugs are in it. Match is OK, wouldn’t regard it that high at all and I can for sure say that the APA did in fact carry the fuck out of this match just like I expected, Bull and bossman did nothing for me and when they were in control it sucked. Fuck you Bull Buchanan. ***

CAL SCALE: 0.5 

Match #4: Crash Holly Vs Hardcore Holly Vs Tazz Vs Perry Saturn Vs Matt Hardy Vs Jeff Hardy – WWF Hardcore Championship Match*

:mark: at this match, hopefully it is just as good as the match for the hardcore title at mania. Just a bunch of guys beating the fucking shit out of each other with everything they could possibly conceive of. PERRY SATURN is in this :mark: whatever happened to him? Guy was AWESOME, even though like everyone else disagrees IDGAF . Matt hardy JUMPS OFF THE STAGE STRUCTURE :mark: and we’re only like 5 minutes into the match, the big spot hasn’t even come yet I assume. Match is still fun as fuck, it’s a lot of awesome brawling mixed with some sick spots from time to time. Some awesome weapons in this like Cookie sheets and 2X4’s too :mark:. Match is awesome, didn’t really have an AWESOME spot like I hoped, but I still loved this. ****

CAL SCALE: 2

Match #5: Big Show vs Kurt Angle *

:mark : I remember this being one of the most fun squash matches I have ever seen., BIG SHOW FTW :mark:. Show comes out as HOGAN :mark: FUCK YES THIS SHIT IS GOAT. Angles face is :lmao. Angle comes in from behind, HULK UP! Angle is confused as fuck :lmao. Show NO SELLING LIKE A GOAT right now :lol. LEG DROP! ITS OVER! NO A KICK OUT! Angle knocks show off his feet, I want more no selling plz. Show wins, this is officialy the best squash match of all time. ***

CAL SCALE: 0.5 

Match #6: T&A vs the Dudley boys* 

I guarantee you this match will be awesome, it just HAS to be in the year 2000, all 4 of these guys probably all had there best year ever, and BUBBA GETTING WOOD is awesome so I guess I’ll stick around for this :mark:. Match is just as awesome as I remember, these guys didn’t hold anything back as usual and everything they did in this match was just flat out awesome. Trish as a heel manager was awesome and HOT, and the 4 guys in the ring produced an awesome RAW. Also, Bubba putting trish through the table was :mark:. ****3/4 

CAL SCALE: 4 

Match #7: Essa Rios vs Eddie Gurrero 

I despise this match. NO *
*
CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #8: Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoi*t 

:mark: I cant remember much about this match except that I remember it being AWESOME like all of these guys other affairs. Match starts out with a lot of CHOPS! And then they go into exchanging roll ups, awesome start! Match starting out is really fun, Benoit takes a suicide dive that looks NASTY! I legit made a cringelike face when he did it, landed almost on his neck. Match is just incredible, Benoit in the walls was so fucking awesome, sold it as well as one could and then they do a good bit of back and forth action to create a match that’s just a boatload of fun to watch. Some cool nearfalls were also in the match and I enjoyed that as well. Ending is meh, but its not one of the worst DQ finishes out there because that forum to the face looked PAINFUL. Also Jericho putting Tim White in the walls was :lmao. *****

CALS SCALE: 5 

Match #9: The Rock vs HHH *

Here we go! Match I assume will hold up tremendously, don’t think its nearly as good as the JD iron man match which may be Rocks best match but this I remember was awesome for the atmosphere and energy, plus the Austin pop is GOAT. McMahon tells us that the card is subject to change, crowd doesn’t like that idea at all, but then the Rock comes out and everyone is happy again I guess. So The family cheats the ENTIRE match, it doesn’t help that Shane is the referee . At one point the Rock has HHH down for the three count but Shane refuses to count the pin, what a shocking revelation that was :lol. At one point HHH has the match one but Shane is knocked out! Time to get real professionals like PATTERSON AND BRISCO out here so this match can be called fairly. Patterson and Brisco start cheating of course and then….GLASS SHATTERS…ENOURMAS pop, I love it, top 10 pop of all time. Austin comes out and wrecks havoc with a chair and wins Rock the match. I like this match a lot…but I think its not nearly as good as the IM match and up until Austin comes out the match is just good but the ending propels it to great. *****1/4 

CAL SCALE: 6 

TOTAL CAL SCALE: 24 

Final 2000 ppv rankings 
1: Backlash(24)
2: Fully Loaded(24) 
3: Judgment day (20)
4: Summerslam (19) 
5: The Royal Rumble (17)
6: No Way out (16)
7: Unforgiven (15.5)
8: No mercy (14) 
9: WrestleMania 2000(13)
10: King of the ring (11) 
11: Rebellion (9) 
12: Insurrextion (8.5)
13: Survivor Series (7) 
14: Armageddon (4)*



Spoiler: top 15 ppv matches of 2000



1: Triple H vs Mick Foley-***** (Royal Rumble) 
2: Triple H vs Chris Jericho-****3/4(Fully Loaded) 
3: Triple H vs The Rock-****1/2 (Judgment day) 
4: Triple H vs Cactus Jack-****1/2(No way out) 
5: Chris Benoit vs The Rock-****1/2(Fully Loaded) 
6: TLC I-****1/2(Summerslam) 
7: Triple H vs The Rock-****1/4 (Judgment day) 
8: E&C vs The Dudley Boys vs The Hardy Boys-****1/4(WrestleMania) 
9: Kurt Angle vs The Rock vs Steve Austin vs Rikishi vs The Undertaker vs Triple H-****1/4(Armageddon) 
10: Kurt Angle vs The Rock-****(No mercy) 
11: E&C vs The Hardy Boys-****(unforgiven) 
12: Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho-****(Backlash) 
13: Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho-****(Summerslam) 
14: Triple H vs Chris Benoit-**** (No mercy)
15: Dean Malenko vs Scotty 2 Hotty(Backlash)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Backlash 00 is runner-up to the runner-up to the GOAT B-level PPV imo. Third to No Way Out 06, which is second to Extreme Rules 12. Get it?

Right, Raw was... a stepdown from last week's as expected, but not a big bump. I sorta marked out when LINE IN THE FUCKING SAND rolled, even if I wasn't the biggest Evolution fan in the world, and yeah, that entire final segment w/Shield was pretty nice. ROLLINS & MCINTYRE small interactions during that 11 on 3 match. Just one thing missing... where the fuck is Flair along those guys?! I don't want him to wrestle at all, without him, it's NOT Evolution. Bottom line.

IC Title has a meaning after all? HOLY SHIT HELL JUST FROZE OVER. Didn't dislike any of the tournament matches - ADR/RVD was fun, Henry/Cesaro was fun too, Sheamus/Swagger deserved a better crowd even if it was only decent, and Ziggler/Barrett was quite really good, MOTN easily. Somewhere, Pyro/Tyrion Lannister is fapping at his favorite wrestler beating his least favorite.

Other points: Cena's promo sucked (until he got serious) but I like the idea of the Cena/Wyatt Cage match; Paige is bringing some new life into the Divas division it seems; Emma deserves a lot better than Santino; the Warrior tribute stuff was nice and classy without being overdone; the crowd was just GODAWFUL.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Well, I love Foley so I definitely enjoy hardcore stuff. But when it comes to breaking light tubes on a dudes face, syringes, stapling people's tongues, or using a jig saw on someone's forehead (fake or not, that almost made me hurl in Moxley's match with BD, as good as the rest of it was) I just kind of reach a point where it makes me sick. As long as there is psychology involved and it's not overly grotesque, I'm cool with some hardcore.


Sure thing. Here's a couple of matches worth watching;

Sami Callihan vs Egotistico Fantastico (CZW Best Of The Best 9)
Sami Callihan vs Adam Cole (CZW Best Of The Best 12)
w/ Jon Moxley vs Naptown Dragons (CZW Tangled Web 2)
w/ Jon Moxley vs Necro Butcher & Danny Havoc (CZW High Stakes IV)
Sami Callihan vs Drake Younger (CZW Cinco De Mayo) (2 Out of 3 Falls)
Sami Callihan vs Drake Younger (CZW New Heights 2012) (60 Minute Ironman match)
Sami Callihan vs Jon Moxley (CZW Swinging For The Fences)

Hope these will do for now. If you'd like matches outside of CZW then I'm afraid you're gonna have to ask someone else.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Mox have you seen the iron man with cole? That shit is fucking awesome

Have ANYONE besides me and Cody seen that :jose


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----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> Mox have you seen the iron man with cole? That shit is fucking awesome
> 
> Have ANYONE besides me and Cody seen that :jose
> 
> ...


I've been meaning to watch that match for ages right now. Just cant get myself to watch that for some reason.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

SMITTY said:


> Mox have you seen the iron man with cole? That shit is fucking awesome
> 
> Have ANYONE besides me and Cody seen that :jose
> 
> ...


Thought I was the only guy who liked it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Mox it's awesome , get to it ASAP 

I think it's relatively popular rah, for good reason :mark:


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----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> Mox have you seen the iron man with cole? That shit is fucking awesome
> 
> Have ANYONE besides me and Cody seen that :jose
> 
> ...


Sure aren't. It's a really good match, but there's two tag matches on the same show I enjoyed more. Good show.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> Mox it's awesome , get to it ASAP
> 
> I think it's relatively popular rah, for good reason :mark:


I kinda miss seeing Callihan wrestle so probably will sometime very soon.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So Bryan, the WWE WHC, the great "technical wrestler" who won the title at WM... is likely gonna be facing KANE for the title at the upcoming PPV while HHH and his friends likely main event.

Is this Extreme Rules 2014 or Bad Blood 2004???



Skipped soooo much of Raw as usual. Cesaro/Henry was super fun for the time it got and whatnot. CESARO :mark:.

Sheamus/Swagger was ok, but felt a bit "off". Didn't click as much as I would have liked. The fact we are now getting Sheamus Vs Barrett though makes me want to KILL THINGS. Oh well, I'll be able to skip it . Like I did with everything else on the show this week. Shield vs The World was MEH as fuck because the crowd didn't care. And who could blame them. Look at the "talent" out there. Barrett. Fandango. Rusev. 3MB (minus Drew who rules). Ryback. Axel. Others. Amazing how much better the talent was when it was The Shield vs The World babyface edition. Evolution's music made me :mark:. Then I stopped once HHH, Orton and Batista came out. YAWN at all 3. WE WANT FLAIR. WE WANT FLAIR. WE WANT FLAIR. WE WANT FLAIR. Crazy Old Man Flair Vs Dean Ambrose please. 

Cena/Bray cage is meh too. Strongly dislike PPV cage matches. They usually always suck nowadays. Don't remember the last good one. Should have been LMS or something. Sounded like it was gonna be given the way they both said shit in their promos. Instead we get cage. YAWN.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> So Bryan, the WWE WHC, the great "technical wrestler" who won the title at WM... is likely gonna be facing KANE for the title at the upcoming PPV while HHH and his friends likely main event.
> 
> Is this Extreme Rules 2014 or Bad Blood 2004???
> 
> ...




You know what would be even better? IF WWE DIDNT RUIN THE SINGLE GREATEST GIMMICK MATCH OF ALL TIME BY CREATING A HELL IN A CELL PPV WHERE FEUDS THAT HAVE NO BUSINESS GETTING A CELL MATCH GET ONE AND 9 TIMES OUT OF 10 THE MATCH SUCKS. Whew. Sorry about that. Had to get it off my chest. That said, for Bray and Cena I was thinking they were gonna go with an I Quit match. The story being that since Bray couldn't turn Cena into a monster, he was going to make him betray what he stands for in "Never Give Up". The reason they wouldn't do something like that is because the WWE would never let John boy utter the words I Quit and Bray should not be losing to Cena again. Which I guess makes some sense...without a screw ending like in the 99' Rumble, has the face ever actually said "I Quit" in an I Quit match? 

Last Man Standing was definitely the way to go with Bray and Cena. Who knows though, maybe they will surprise us and have an awesome cage match? This would be the perfect match for some color. I hope Cena really turns it on and gives one of his Extreme Rules 2012 style baby face performances. I have no doubt that Bray will definitely bring it.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

So I watched the new Ultimate Warrior DVD on the flight to Canada from Dubai. To be honest, 7 hours was a but much for even me in one sitting and there were a few skippable parts, but it was a really epic trip down the memory lane. 

One of the things that I didn't know at all was that even though Hogan/Warrior may have been a terrible match in WCW but it had all the makings of an epic feud where their chemistry may have improved with an extended program. I'm shocked that Eric Bishoff and the others simply wrote it off and let Warrior walk with the money and he seemed just as surprised by all of it as I am now. 

The last scene on the DVD was a classic with the Warrior laying the beatdown and the crowd marking like crazy .. In fact, throughout the entire program, the Crowd was crazy into it and seemed like they all were left wanting more from it. 

Overall, the DVD was one of the best I've ever seen come out of the WWE. The Warrior looked so happy in the end to be talking about having the chance to tell the whole story ... I really hope that they recorded more and will eventually release another tribute DVD or something. I walked away wanting more in the end. And kinda teary as well. 

And in the end walked away feeling like Warrior deserved my markdom as a kid and I no longer feel stupid for marking out for him for as long as I have - and if that was the main purpose of the story, they did an excellent job of finally being able to achieve it.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> has the face ever actually said "I Quit" in an I Quit match?


- Mysterio in 2006 against Chavo


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

I still think Bryan will main event. But won't mind if he doesn't coz I'm more interested in Shield vs Evolution anyway. But with how much they built him up last week- on Mania, Raw and SD too with that segment with Hogan, I really don't see him not main eventing.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe...to_Paul_Heyman_Legends_House_Cast_In_NYC.html



> - Besides the pre-show match for the WWE Tag Team Titles and the 2014 Hall of Fame ceremony, below are extras for the WrestleMania XXX DVD, courtesy of WrestlingDVDNews.com:
> 
> - Top 30 Greatest WrestleMania Moments
> - Hulk Hogan Discusses WrestleMania
> ...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Kane/Bryan/Punk from the 6/25/12 RAW was pretty damn good. Lots of nice interactions, fast paced action, and Daniel Bryan actually beating face Punk cleanly. While the storyline was silly, the actual matches between these three throughout the early summer of 2012 were actually really good.

Sami Callihan is piff. And Big Show vs. Kurt Angle at Backlash 2000 was super fun.

I honestly don't remember NWO 2006 being that good. It was good, no question about that. Double main event kicked ass. I actually prefer the Mysterio/Orton match on that show over their Smackdown one. But I don't recall anything else about that show being above the Sarkodie-Mensah scale. Even Benoit and Booker wasn't good. And JBL/Lashley. Yuck! Gonna have to revisit Smackdown in 2006 some day though. I don't recall liking any feuds besides Angle/Taker, but you guys claim that it's full of weekly gems. And it has FINLAY! But wow. Mysterio, Booker T, and Batista as champions. Can it get any worse? Especially since Mysterio was so unlikable at the time.

I have faith in Bray/Cena, but Cena hasn't had a very good history with cage matches. The Ziggler one last year was awful, the Big Show match at No Way Out was a DUD, the Edge one is super overrated, and the Sheamus match was directionless and boring. Apparently he had a triple threat cage match with Sheamus and Undertaker though. That could be great.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Backlash 2000 is soooo far ahead of NWO 06 it's not even funny. Like FF said, NWO 06 had the double main event and... well that's it. Second best "B" PPV ever? The fuck you smoking (whoever said it, I forget)? There are probably at least 5 B PPV's from 00 and 01 better than NWO 06.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I would go another step further. There are at least four from 2000 and 2001 EACH that are better.

2000 (No Way Out, Backlash, Fully Loaded, Judgment Day)
2001 (No Way Out, Backlash, King of the Ring, Judgment Day, maybe No Mercy)

I think there were even a few more from years like 2008, 2011, and even 2012 that were far better. Sorry for dogging on you, ATF :side:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I would say the only b ppv from 2001 that trumps NWO 2006 is backlash, maybe JD too. 

2000 has the obvious 3 but I still fully consider the show that highly even with the main events 


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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hell 06 itself has better B PPV shows too. Armageddon is all round a better show. Backlash. JD is up there. No Mercy too probs. I can't wait to re-visit 06 PV's :mark:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'll tell what I thought was good about NWO 06: EVERYTHING ELSE, FUCKERS... except the crowd :side:

I admit it: I'm totally biased towards that show. It took place in my birthday, and I thought every match would be special, since I was still a young viewer but I was HOOKED at the time. And tbh, whoever thinks all but the double Main Event sucked quite doesn't remember the same show as I do. I though Booker/Benoit was no WCW or Armageddon but it was still good. The opener was one crazy ass clusterfuck, but I had tons of fun with it. MNM/Matt & Tatanka was OK too, even if I remember it to be more of a Matt Hardy carryjob if anything. Then there was JBL/Lashley... well, JBL/Lashley... had... yeah that match sucked sure. But STILL, Finlay was featured in it. Still, all of this + the double Main Event (Orton/Rey I have at ****, Angle/Taker only a 1/4* away from the full five) make combined for a show that is only trumped by Extreme Rules 12 imo in the B-show department.

Backlash 00? BITCH PLEASE. It didn't took place in my birthday, therefore it's Bronze Medal at best 8*D


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Y'all need to stop what you are doing, go over to podcastone.com, and check out the new Steve Austin show, featuring guest PAUL HEYMAN. Goodness. I could listen to those two talk all day. It's just awesome hearing Paul explain his thoughts and feelings about wrestling, Punker, and BROCK LESSSSSNAR.

P.s. Sorry ATF, I'm gonna have to side with Cal and FF. There are atleast, ATLEAST, 10 "B" PPV's I'd prefer over NWO 2006. Probably closer to 15-20 actually. 

Off the top of my head:

IYH Canadian Stampede 
Backlash 2000
Backlash 2001
Backlash 2004
Fully Loaded 2000
Judgement Day 2001
MitB 2011
Extreme Rules 2012
No Mercy 2003
No Mercy 2002
Vengeance 2003
Vengeance 2005
No Mercy 2008
No Way Out 2008


All smoke 2006 NwO


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Y'all need to stop what you are doing, go over to podcastone.com, and check out the new Steve Austin show, featuring guest PAUL HEYMAN. Goodness. I could listen to those two talk all day. It's just awesome hearing Paul explain his thoughts and feelings about wrestling, Punker, and BROCK


Thanks mate, just grabbed it and will give it a listen tonight. 

Waiting on Austin's thoughts on Mania, hopefully that goes up this week.

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----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, fuck. I'm always alone in my stand. It's the same when it comes to Angle/Benoit JD - it's the only match of theirs I have at over ****+ (though I haven't rewatched Ultimate Submission yet), and everybody shits on it 

Tbh, my love of NWO 06 is, like I said, biased. Without that bias, there are quite a few other shows that do trump it. I did say ER 2012 was the GOAT B show, right? It's actually second. *CANADIAN STAMPEDE* stomps it. But ER comes right after. Then, other shows that I would think are better if that show wasn't so Goddamn special for my heart would be Backlash, Judgment Day and Fully Loaded 00, MITB 11 and No Mercy 08. Yeah, that's about it


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fucking Austin/Heyman podcast. I want UNDERTAKER :mark:. Probs gonna be May when we hear it though since he still has to go record it, then edit it and he probably had a couple all ready in the can to put up and shit. 

UNDERTAKER :mark:.

Final Four needs some love for a great "B" PPV too. Show isn't all round awesome like Canadian Stampede, but stars off decently and each match gets better, until we get the fucking spectacular main event :mark:. Love that they were released on DVD together, as a way to start off the Tagged Classics sets to see if they'd sell. Shows how good they are :mark:.


----------



## ExMachina (Apr 16, 2008)

*WWE Main Event - 11.03.2014*
Little Rock, Arkansas, USA

*WWE Divas Title - AJ Lee (c) vs. Natalya*
**_3/4_​


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Undertaker, Sting and Philip. Sting will turn on Taker and we'll get Taker/Sting at WM31. :mark: :mark: :mark:


Yes....yes...this please! 






KingLobos said:


> Kane being fed to Bryan I like. He's not credible enough to actually make people be pissed that he loses, and he's accomplished enough that you won't hear smarks say "Bryan buried Kane!!!!". This might be his last big feud as well.


Bingo. Also Kane WITH the mask? Yes please! 



Jack Evans 187 said:


> All of the dudes in this IC Tournament would be better champions than Langston...


Agreed. Put it on Cesaro or Barrett. 





Saint Dick said:


> The Shield being in a marquee match makes up for Bryan not getting top billing at ER for me.


This



KingLobos said:


> I don't think Bryan vs Kane screams MUST BUY THIS PPV in terms of general audiences. But that's just me.


Just get the network! :vince3 



xdoomsayerx said:


> The big storyline for Bryan is over , if anyone doesn't think he'll lose some momentum is fucking delusional.


Exactly. Bryan has kind of peaked which is to be expected.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

I remember doing a review for No Way Out 2006 for my Smackdown 2006 project that I did a long time ago. I'll echo the sentiments that Mysterio/Orton and Angle/Taker are the only matches worth watching, although both are GREAT. IIRC, Benoit/Booker, JBL/Lashley, and MNM/Hardy and Tatanka were ass.


----------



## Superhippy (Jan 28, 2014)

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> I still think Bryan will main event. But won't mind if he doesn't coz I'm more interested in Shield vs Evolution anyway. But with how much they built him up last week- on Mania, Raw and SD too with that segment with Hogan, I really don't see him not main eventing.


I think Bryan v. Kane will main event too. I have a gut feeling that Evolution will beat The Shield and if that is the case they will want to send the crowd home happy with Bryan retaining his title. I know alot of people will be pissed if The Shield loses but I just can't see HHH, Orton, and Batista losing again after they just all lost to Bryan at Wrestlemania. Orton and Batista will be facing Bryan over the next few months and them jobbing to The Shield doesn't really fit into that storyline. That and if the HHH v. Reigns at Summerslam rumors are true, then that just adds more evidence that Evolution will win.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Can I just say Bryan/Kane is a match that is a little more than filler - they have the whole Team Hell No background they can exploit. Maybe Dr. Shelby can be special guest ref? And maybe, just maybe... Kane turns face again at ER and hugs it out with Bryan?

Next week: Cesaro/RVD, Sheamus/Barrett and either Cesaro/Sheamus or Cesaro/Barrett (I predict the former tbh). Three kick-ass matches in one night :mark:

*WARNING: LONG REVIEW HERE*: I decided to say fuck it and rewatch Benoit/Angle Backlash 2001. It's pimped with ****1/2 ratings by everyone out here and on the internet, and I felt like I had to. I remembered that the first 10 minutes were a shockingly killer feat of wrestling intelligence, but then the rest of the match bored me to tears at many points, so much that the match stayed at a ***1/4 rating for me. BUT, on this rewatch... fuck me, this was actually awesome. Tbh, I have to admit: the 2001 PPV trilogy between those two was pretty great after all. WM 17 was very good; I LOVED Judgment Day (probably the only one out there :lol); and now, I see this delievered. Those first 10 minutes hold up, with stuff like the Cross Armbreaker as a nice improvisation on the Crossface being countered and Angle tapping out immediately while on the outside being the best moments. But I decided to try to care about the rest - and BOY, I was astounded at just how smart the rest of the match actually is. Benoit was brilliant throughout. Sure yeah, he was very on-and-off about selling his ankles, but he did have a long time to recover in-between so I guess it's forgivable. The way he would almost instantly go for the ropes everytime Angle tried a submission while near the end of the match, and the way he would always try a different submission to catch Angle by surprise (e.g. Sharpshooter followed by Liontamer) were great little parts of detail too. But son, Kurt Angle was the star of this match. And this is coming from an Angle half-hater (I don't HATE him, just dislike his wrestling epic spotz style more often than not). Dude, where has THIS Angle come from and why did he so ever rarely show up? The last time I remember seeing him was... what, SummerSlam 2001? Maybe that SD 03 match with Taker? Yeah, he had quite a lot of great matches afterwards, but those weren't mostly thanks to him. NWO 06 was about 70% Taker. SS 03 was 80% Lesnar. WM 21 was more accidental psychology than anything (it was Angle doing his schtick, only with actual meaning thanks to the HBK back injury stuff, stuff he probably wasn't counting with anyway). This guy is the star his marks make him out to be, for sure. Probably his best moment was when Benoit got the 3-2 fall, and Angle lied there during the rest period, and as soon as the bell rung again, he just continually escaped the fuck outta the ring to avoid the Wolverine, 1. because he was still selling the Liontamer, and 2. because he still had the advantage and could stall for as long as he wanted, and taking his time by avoiding Benoit was then a brilliant, brilliant move. But that wasn't his only smart moment. Another one was right after the 2-1, Angle was beating down Benoit even during the rest period to avoid any kind of actual rest on him, and as soon as the bell rung, he moved into making Benoit tap to *his own hold*, not only keeping Benoit in pain and raising the score but also humilliating him in the process. Genius. More smart stuff? Benoit eventually initiating a comeback and Angle, who had the advantage, raking his eye out of desperation and then just throwing him to the outside, and then just stomping him away to avoid him getting back in the ring - that while the clock counted less than 10 minutes for the end. Or him not going SuplexAMania AT ALL throughout, but rather using a single Suplex once in a while to wear down Benoit and avoid any comeback. Small touches, but pure brilliance in the meantime. And the ending was, tbh, a pretty good feelgood moment in Benoit finally one-upping Angle by making him tap to the Crossface. Yeah, this ruled. It really fucking ruled. Indecise between ****1/4 and 1/2, since it did have a few slow parts and Benoit's on-and-off selling, but either of them will certainly do this justice.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yey more people loving that match. Check out their 2/3 falls from Insurrextion in 01 too if you can. It's not great, but I gave it *** and it's a fun addition to their 01 series. Better than their JD 2/3 falls :lmao.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Finally got to watch a bit of Wrestlemania. 

Triple H's entrance - ********************************

And that's it, that's all I watched 8*D.

I'll have more time next week to get caught up but yeah, GOAT entrance right there. 










:mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

His entrance Vs Lesnar last year was better 8*D.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Damn, can't believe I missed that Sami Callihan discussion a few pages back. I always pimp out his match with Moxley at Swinging for The Fences. I adore it for its simplicity. It's such a simple but effective match.

Also, regarding the Adam Cole match, it's really freaking fun. Nothing amazing or worth a second watch imo but I enjoyed the hell out of it when I saw it. Probably one of the few 60 minute matches I've seen where the hour just flies by quickly. Oh and you can't forget the Rock/Austin spot lol.

I also recommend watching his performances at TPI '08, BOTB and the first Style Battle. Oh and his 2/3 falls match with Generico from DG USA.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I was going to make a concussion joke but I don't think you're quite ready for that yet, Cal :side:.

I'm liking the look of Extreme Rules so far. I would have preferred Hunter/Bryan II but hopefully it still happens down the line and Shield/Evolution is a kickass consolation prize. I'm still liking Cena/Wyatt in the cage, despite Cena's shit promo yesterday. Bryan/Kane is fine with me since it's just filler for now. I think it's on Sky Box Office though this year which sucks.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> His entrance Vs Lesnar last year was better 8*D.



You mean when he got second degree burns from dry ice? :lmao

I'd have to say either this years or WM 27, when he had all the people dancing around him wearing similar "King of Kings" garb was his best. But none of that stuff will ever touch Takers entrances, especially when the Druids were involved. Even Takers non WrestleMania entrances smoke any other entrance done by any wrestler ever. Just seeing the Deadman walk slowly down the aisle while fog emerges from all around him with the Funeral Dirge playing is enough to turn me into a full blown mark. Damn. I just realized there is a very good chance I'll never see him do it again


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> I was going to make a concussion joke but I don't think you're quite ready for that yet, Cal :side:.


Don't you dare Missy.

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----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Watching Taker/Show NWO 2003. Absolutely awesome, almost as good as their classic at NM 08'. I think I discovered where Orton got the moniker "Legend Killer" from. Paul Heyman keeps shouting at Show "He's only a Legend, your a GIANT. Now kill that Legend. You're the LEGEND KILLER." Who knew Show was the OG Legend Killer? 

Didn't Taker and Show have another really good match? Like a Last Man Standing match or something?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lmao @ the Legend Killer thing. Paul Heyman is so awesome, I can never get tired of hearing him talk. Last night had me rolling when he kept repeating "My client Brock Lesnar conquered the streak". :lol

Fuck the shitty crowd for last night but I'm still marking out for EVOLUTION!!! I just hope they get Naitch at ringside for The Shield match or at least he shows up at some point for a real reunion. Raw after SummerSlam 2004 is the last time these four were together and even that was short-lived. The 2007 reunion lacked Orton and now they need Flair.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah LMS at Cyber Sunday 08. And a cage match on SD afterwards too.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I love that Undertaker/Big Show cage match. I was ringside for it and it was amazing to see live. 



In Your House II

I know that King of the Ring 1995 follows IYH I but there is no way that I’m going to watch that show again. I have it on VHS and it literally is one of the worst things ever. There’s just no need to put myself through it again.



*1-2-3 Kid vs. The Roadie*

This was solid. There are few people that play an underdog better than a sober Sean Waltman. I was actually pretty impressed with The Roadie here as well. He put in a some effort to make this work out and he did a lot of things that you would not expect to see him doing. Kid takes some great bumps, throws some cool kicks and they have a really solid match. No complaints here.
***¾ *


*Savio Vega and Razor Ramon vs. Men on a Mission*

Horrible. I mean how interesting does a Mo and Mabel isolation segment on Savio Vega really sound? Making this even worse is that Mabel would main event Summerslam next month so he had to look super strong here. Meaning that when Savio finally made the hot tag to Hall it didn’t matter because Mabel was unstoppable and pinned him. There was a boring control segment that led up to a lackluster hot tag. Just terrible.
*½** 


*Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Henry Godwin*

On paper this could be pretty solid. You have one really talented big guy against another big guy that I know nothing about. It just didn’t work for me because they were so slow the entire match and it was by no means a long match. If you’re going to have 2 big guys wrestle for 5 minutes why can’t they just have a fun big man match? They wrestled like they were on pace for a 30 minute match. It wasn’t the worst thing ever as it was pretty short and there was a lot of really good looking offense so it wasn’t all bad.
**½* 


_Intercontinental Championship Match:_
*Jeff Jarrett(c) w/The Roadie vs. Shawn Michaels* 

This was a lot of fun to watch. Jarrett plays a super old school heel with some early stalling tactics and using every old school heel trick he could think of. The Roadie was a constant factor in the match that was involved whenever he had the chance to. This meshed really well with Shawn’s flashy offense and high impact moves. In earlier years we would see Shawn duck a punch from the Roadie, throw Jarrett out of the ring onto the Roadie, and then he would celebrate. In this match Shawn would do all of that and then launch himself off the top rope into both guys. The dynamic was fun to watch and the match was worked smartly enough. I think I can safely say that this was one of Jarrett’s best matches ever. 
******


_Tag Team Championship Match:_
*Owen Hart and Yokozuna(c) vs. The Allied Powers (Lex Luger and The British Bulldog)* 

Owen and Yokozuna make for a really good team and they delivered again. We started with a Luger/Yokozuna exchange which was a lot better than I would have expected. There some really good Owen/Bulldog exchanges (which shouldn't be surprising) as well as a fun finishing stretch. They didn’t have much time but they made the most of it. Good stuff.
*****


_Lumberjack Match for the WWF Championship Match:_
*Sycho Sid vs. Big Daddy Cool Diesel(c)*

There really wasn’t a lot of stuff going on inside the ring. All of the heels were helping Sid and the faces were helping Nash. I was surprised at how involved the lumberjacks were. I think Nash might have spent more time outside the ring fighting with people then he did inside the ring. Sid’s control segments still suck too. I did really like the spot where Nash launched himself over the top rope into all of the heels and just starting throwing punches but cool moments like that were few and far between. This didn’t feel like a PPV main event and it wasn’t worked like one either. If this was on Raw I would be fine but when you have a match that’s supposed to end a feud I really feel like you need to have the guys in the match spend more than 5 minutes in the ring together. It was somewhat entertaining at least and I liked seeing all of the random lumberjacks but even so this was far from good.
**¾ *​
There was 1 great match and 2 solid ones so it was bearable. There were also some really bad matches and that hurt the show a lot. I would probably say to just watch Michaels/Jarrett and not worry about anything else.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Yeah LMS at Cyber Sunday 08. And a cage match on SD afterwards too.



Where they both good? I just realized probably 75% of the matches I've watched since WM 30 have been Undertaker matches, and it hasn't been intentionally. It's like my subconscious is making me watch all this Taker greatness so I don't have to come to terms with the fact that in all likely hood, The Deadman has laced up a pair of boots for the last time. I never realized something in a sport with predetermined outcomes could affect me this much,

P.s. Heyman asked Austin straight up if he'd ever consider coming back for a match with Lesnar. I know Austin has been doing this for years, but he definitely seemed interested at the prospect. I don't care if there is less than a 5% chance of this match ever happening, it still made me giddy just thinking about how awesome it would be for the "Toughest SOB in the WWE" to face off with "The Baddest Man on the Planet". Austin still looks like he's in great shape too! Damn. The possibilities.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, I think we all should just sink in the great likeliness that the (subpar but still somewhat decent) match w/Lesnar at WM was Taker's curtain call. And even if the fault of Taker/Lesnar's technical unsuccess was on the concussion Taker suffered, it's not like the match itself could've really been that much amazing either. And neither would any other match he might've wrestled in the future after this, since he's getting older, and if you don't have something really good against Brock Lesnar, you don't really have something really good against much others. Sting surely wouldn't be one if he showed up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Where they both good?


Yep, LMS is right up there with their No Mercy match. Cage is a step down but still a great TV match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Casket match > NWO 2003, LMS, Cage & No Mercy all together :troll

Austin vs BROCK sounds interesting. I've been against Austin coming back but that's only because all everyone talks about is Austin vs Punk and that makes me wanna throw up.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Fuck the shitty crowd for last night but I'm still marking out for EVOLUTION!!! I just hope they get Naitch at ringside for The Shield match or at least he shows up at some point for a real reunion. Raw after SummerSlam 2004 is the last time these four were together and even that was short-lived. The 2007 reunion lacked Orton and now they need Flair.


I watched half of RAW live and went to bed and of course missed this. Came on the forum and heard the news and just had to check it out on YouTube. And :mark: hearing that theme again. I really like the direction they're taking with this. Orton needs to temporarily be out of the title picture because of how long he's been in it (and I say temporarily because he'll get his rematch clause) and Batista shouldn't be in the title picture at all - so having them teaming up along with Triple H to reunite Evolution to feud and put over The Shield is great imo. Two great factions battling it out, one from the past and one from the present. Love the Batista bomb into the RKO team finisher as well. 






:mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Gosh, even the commentators no sold the fuck outta the theme.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The commentary team is so bad at this point.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> Gosh, even the commentators no sold the fuck outta the theme.



I'm refusing to refer to Cole/JBL/Lawler as commentators any more. They do a great disservice to the history of wrestling commentary. From now on, I'm calling them T3UC's. The 3 Useless Cunts.. It's really reached a boiling point with me, this is almost worse than Coles intolerable heel run in 2010-2011.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Would of loved to have seen JR on commentary selling the fuck out of that Evolution return. All the current commentators suck, Even JBL who I'm a fan of isn't nearly as good as he used to be and he's just Vince's puppet nowadays who has a bad habit of repeating the same crap all the time.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

If I were in Vince's position, I would fire those idiots for fucking no-selling such a big moment. A good commentary team would have been losing their minds. Instead, all we get is, "Oh no."


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Commentary team needs to consist of JR and a returning Coach. Lawler sucks, Cole is shit and JBL is annoying. :selfie

Coach was always hilarious and I have no reason to believe he would have fallen off if he'd return. JR is JR.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Commentary team needs to consist of JR and a returning Coach. Lawler sucks, Cole is shit and JBL is annoying. :selfie
> 
> Coach was always hilarious and I have no reason to believe he would have fallen off if he'd return. JR is JR.



That's fair idea, if I had my way, I'd bring Joey Styles back to be the neutral play by play guy (assuming JR didn't want the job) then bring Regal up to be the face color guy, then bring Heyman in to do heel color commentary. That would be a CLASSIC booth. As great as Heyman is as a manager, I'd rather him do color full time and just step away from the booth whenever Brock wrestles. Heenan used to do something similar to this. Heyman, Regal, and Styles on commentary, calling the action in the ring. I swear that would make the current product roughly 20 times more enjoyable. Heyman is perfect at both rooting for the bad guys while also not totally burying the face, as JBL is want to do at times.

As for Styles, just listen to his commentary in the Foley/Edge WM 22 match or the Trips/Flair cage match. He's outstanding. And I don't even need to point out all the ways that Regal is great, if you watched NXT Arrival you know the deal.

C2D- just watched your upload of the Evolution vs Foley/HBK/Benoit/Shelton match. Holy crap, I forgot how great this was. Wish Foley would have gotten a bit more time to shine, even just 2 minutes with Hunter would have been great. But I can't complain at all, this was just non stop awesome action. I still think I SLIGHTLY prefer the 6man with Edge/Benoit/Jericho vs Evolution. I'm hoping they can match or even surpass this at Extreme Rules :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> a returning Coach.





The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's fair idea, if I had my way, I'd bring Joey Styles back to be the neutral play by play guy


oh god no


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lance Russell is still alive. We have no use for Joey Styles or The Coach.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Joey Styles can be alright, but there is such a thing as trying to hard to get a catchphrase over, and his "OH MY GOOOOOOD!" is WOAT. He used at WM 22 when Edge speared Foley through the table, but it was delayed like 3 seconds, and it had zero followup. 

Barely remember Coach, but I remember not liking him.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

COACH rules!

You filthy bastards just can't recognize greatness. 



> just watched your upload of the Evolution vs Foley/HBK/Benoit/Shelton match. Holy crap, I forgot how great this was. Wish Foley would have gotten a bit more time to shine, even just 2 minutes with Hunter would have been great. But I can't complain at all, this was just non stop awesome action. I still think I SLIGHTLY prefer the 6man with Edge/Benoit/Jericho vs Evolution. I'm hoping they can match or even surpass this at Extreme Rules


Yeah, that 8 man is awesome. As far as I know, that is the only time all four of Evolution participated in a match as a tag team. 1072 pounds of EVOLUTION! :mark:

I used to think the 6 man elimination tag is better but on recent rewatch, I gotta go with the 8 man. Pure fun.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

The commentary team was on a whole different level of bad for me that night. JBL during Paige's match wasn't making any god damn sense, their absolutely forced as fuck laughs during Cena's segment was cringe-worthy, and instead of discuss the official reuniting of one of the greatest factions in WWE's history, they instead discuss how things could possibly get worse during Evolution's entrance. Stupid. Just fucking stupid.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Any good matches on Main Event tonight?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I swear, I struggle so much trying to figure out what to watch on a nightly basis and end up wasting so much time. Last night after like 2 hours of contemplating I decided to pop in the War Games blu ray and didn't watch a single match in its entirety. :lol Here we are again...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Any good matches on Main Event tonight?


No, nothing essential. Barrett showcase vs Sin Cara was a fun way to kill three minutes. And for wrestlecrap gold, the Divas Battle Royal. Swagger vs Show was "fine" but realistically, can be skipped.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Remind me again why we like Vince McMahon on commentary and not Joey Styles or Matt Striker. Hopefully, we all hate Gorilla Monsoon too.

Some nobody mentioned IYH: Final Four as being a really underappreciated PPV and I have to agree with that. Not only is the main event the best of its gimmick type, but the tag match on that show is so freakin' good. Everyone go watch the three Owen/Bulldog vs. Furnas/Lafon matches in 1997.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c nostalgia of being goofy on the mic > two shitheads TRYING to be smart & irreverent while doing commentary. 

Glad I had to hear Joey Styles _(and Tazz for that matter)_ make this comment every single week: "I'm not trying to be 1980's bad guy color commentator/1980's good guy play by play guy" Fuck off, you idiots.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Vince was awesome at commentating, voiced the "new generation" to perfection. We all give JR and rightfully so his due but never Vince

I've said many of times, Striker is the biggest POS ever


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Matt Striker :ti

I like McMahon,Styles,and Monsoon tbh, but Matt Striker is WOAT


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Vince is pretty underrated as a commentator. He had a lot of enthusiasm and he fits the "New Generation" era to perfection. I couldn't picture that era without his commentating the same way I couldn't picture the "Attitude" era without JR.

Vince's best call as a commentator: "The boyhood dream has come true for Shawn Michaels!" :banderas


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

HEENAN though. GOATed at everything he did.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Def Heenan. Dusty Rhodes too please. Like seriously.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Vince is pretty underrated as a commentator. He had a lot of enthusiasm and he fits the "New Generation" era to perfection. I couldn't picture that era without his commentating the same way I couldn't picture the "Attitude" era without JR.
> 
> Vince's best call as a commentator: "The boyhood dream has come true for Shawn Michaels!" :banderas





Odafin Tutuola said:


> HEENAN though. GOATed at everything he did.





HayleySabin said:


> Def Heenan. Dusty Rhodes too please. Like seriously.


(Y)x10

I loved when Dusty would mark for everything the luchas would do. Watching 80s Naitch stuff, I've taken a liking to Gordon Solie, his voice was so calm and smooth


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Glad I had to hear Joey Styles _(and Tazz for that matter)_ make this comment every single week: "I'm not trying to be 1980's bad guy color commentator/1980's good guy play by play guy" Fuck off, you idiots.


Yeah that's one of my main gripes with Styles and Striker. They're so ''look at me I know the wrestlin' biz''. Styles at least tries to tell you facts you wouldn't know, I guess. Striker just feels like he's saying shit to either cater to the ROH ''screw sports entertainment'' goon who'd be watching the show, or bringing up a name like Greg Gagne out of nowhere.

Gabe is the undisputed worst, though, right? Has anybody heard a worse commentator than him? This question is not limited to wrestling.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

That Layla botch tonight :lmao


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Heyman on commentary would be amazing but zero chance of that happening in the foreseeable future. They'll want the GOAT manager around as one of their big acts, not at the announce table with those stooges. Let's be honest, Lawler has been awful for years and he's still there. They obviously don't give a fuck about quality commentators. The best we can hope for right now is William Regal getting a promotion. Whenever I watch NXT he's great and I have the feeling he might be able to bring the entertaining not-annoying-as-fuck JBL back. He used to be awesome, either he's getting bad direction from the people in the back or he's been around Cole and Lawler too long.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Gabe is the undisputed worst, though, right? Has anybody heard a worse commentator than him? This question is not limited to wrestling.


Gabe is bad, but as bad as the worst commentators in wrestling can get, nothing beats the likes of Reggie Miller or Tommy Heinsohn. Oh, can't forget Joe Buck and Tim McCarver. Those two are worse than Cole and Lawler. Or Ken Harrelson. Or Joe Morgan. But seriously. Joey Styles is fun. And Matt Striker and WCW Mike Tenay add to matches. But Vince McMahon and Gorilla Monsoon are examples of how not to be face commentators. And heel Coach is too funny. Heenan is GOAT too. Him and Dusty Rhodes on commentary carried a match. Yes, those two somehow made a match between Public Enemy and Harlem Heat good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah that's one of my main gripes with Styles and Striker. They're so ''look at me I know the wrestlin' biz''. Styles at least tries to tell you facts you wouldn't know, I guess. Striker just feels like he's saying shit to either cater to the ROH ''screw sports entertainment'' goon who'd be watching the show, or bringing up a name like Greg Gagne out of nowhere.
> 
> Gabe is the undisputed worst, though, right? Has anybody heard a worse commentator than him? This question is not limited to wrestling.


Joey Styles once slandered Bobby Heenan b/c he(_Styles)_ was doing "serious" commentary for a Mysterio vs Psicosis match. He can burn. 

Gabe slipping in those comments about a dame being hot or something. _*shudders*_

Truthfully, while he's plenty bad, I can handle him over the other two knobs. Largely b/c I never notice him much to begin w/. Except for that one time he said _"and I'm a big Sabu mark"_. Sweet jesus. Thankfully I never watched ROH for commentary.


----------



## Toates Dapperfox (Feb 4, 2014)

I still like Striker. I get where people are coming from on the tryhard thing, but he wasn't always like that. He was great on ECW and early on his Smackdown run, I think he just bought his own hype or something? Regardless I always really enjoyed him even late in his run the aspects of his personality that piss others off never bothered me.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Can't say I ever hated Striker either. He got worse as time went on but I definitely enjoyed him on ECW. I seem to recall most people liking him around that time so maybe Toates Dapperfox is on to something about him believing his own hype. He got progressively smarkier and eventually annoying but I definitely thought he was good for a period of time.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

TheGMofGods said:


> The commentary team was on a whole different level of bad for me that night. JBL during Paige's match wasn't making any god damn sense, their absolutely forced as fuck laughs during Cena's segment was cringe-worthy, and instead of discuss the official reuniting of one of the greatest factions in WWE's history, they instead discuss how things could possibly get worse during Evolution's entrance. Stupid. Just fucking stupid.


YES! The commentary team was on their special shit sauce.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

It does make me think what Trips thought about their conduct when he watches it back. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Didn't Taker and Show have another really good match? Like a Last Man Standing match or something?


The steel Cage match in Smackdown 2008 was really good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I like almost every single Taker/Show match out there (at least the major ones), with Last Man Standing being my favorite. The only one I don't like is the Punjabi Prison match from TGAB 2006. That was one fucking letdown (mediocre at peak best imo).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Striker is awful. I seriously cannot stand him, he damn near ruined WM 26 Taker/Shawn for me. I don't watch that match as much as I'd like strictly because he was so awful that night.

I'm not talking about ECW Joey Styles. I'm saying the Joey Styles from his short run in WWE in 2005 was really good, far superior to the current iteration of Michael Cole. But I've also gone on record as saying the Cole and Tazz booth from the 2002-2005 Smackdown days was actually really really good. Eddie was Cole's muse, maybe I'm biased but Cole always did such an awesome job of either putting over how sick and twisted Eddie was, or when he was a face just how lovable and hard working he was. 

Vince could be really good but he could also be unbearable, like in the 1996 SVS match between Austin and Bret Hart. The best booth of all time was also one of the shortest lived: the 1993 KotR PPV had a commentary of JR, Heenan, and Randy Savage. Doesn't get much better than that.

And yes, we all know Heenan=GOAT. Untouchable as a color guy, especially during his WWE days.

I used to absolutely hate Dusty, but having watched a ton of WCW recently since the Network came out I've actually warmed up to him. He was so over the top ridiculous that you can't help but enjoy him. His commentary for Eddie/Rey HH97', Finlay/Regal UN96', and Benoit/Sullivan BatB 96' is the stuff of legends for me. "these guys have some amazing athletic-cisms" "THERE IS A WOMAN IN THE MANS BATHROOM!!!!" :lmao


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Punk/Orton from ER 2011 is so average, their WM match proved they had chemistry even If Punk did all the heavy lifting and what's with Orton winning......again?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ladies and gentlemen, it seems that down the road, one of Bryan's opponents over the WWEWHC Title will be


Spoiler: Lobster head



heel Sheamus.



Not sure what to think. On one hand, it still doesn't scream "PPV Main Event", but on the other, it kinda really does.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Punk/Orton from ER 2011 is so average, their WM match proved they had chemistry even If Punk did all the heavy lifting and what's with Orton winning......again?


I see someone is tuning in to the network.  I've always liked their LMS but yeah, it's nothing special or memorable. Luckily (imo) the rest of that show delivered. Underrated all accross the board if you ask me. Sheamus/Kofi had a super solid tables match, Rhodes/Mysterio was a total blast, Christian/Del Rio was MOTN and a match I've seen probably 4 times, plus that main event was a ton of fun. 



ATF said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, it seems that down the road, one of Bryan's opponents over the WWEWHC Title will be
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Lobster head
> ...


Well, I was hoping when they brought him back they'd turn him heel, so I'm all for it in the future if it's true. (Y)


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Don't think it needed 20 minutes either. Rey/Angle is like the best opener and it's under 10 minutes.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Extreme Rules 11 is extremely (pun not intended) underrated if you ask me. ADR/Christian, Miz/Cena/Morrison and especially dat Rey/Cody mark are all great, plus I thought Punk/Orton was alright and Sheamus/Kofi was entertaining too.

It seems that Alicia Fox is starting to gain a cult/becoming an IWC darling after the performance against Paige on Raw. Can't blame them - Melina/Alicia is still the GOAT match and a ***** classic forever.

unk2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*NXT Arrival

*Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn - ****

CJ Parker vs. Mojo Rawley - 1/2*

*NXT Tag Team Championship
*The Ascension (c) vs. Too Cool - 3/4*

*NXT Women's Championship
*Paige (c) vs. Emma - *** 1/4

Rusev Destroys Everyone - N/R

*NXT Championship - Ladder Match
*Bo Dallas (c) vs. Adrian Neville - ** 3/4

- Before anyone freaks out about how low my rating is for Cesaro/Zayn, hear me out. Don't get me wrong, it was an awesome match, BUT, I've seen it before. I've seen Claudio Castagnoli & El Generico 3 or 4 times on the indies have almost the same match or better ones. I've also seen them use the story of Cesaro attacking Zayn's leg in PWG and seen him sell it much, much better. So once again, great match but I've seen all those amazing counters and sequences all before... several times.  To many new viewers I'm sure it blew their minds though. Nothing wrong with that.

- The 2nd match featured Nikolai Volkoff vs. Johnny B. Badd. I was not impressed by either individual... then I got to see Too Cool. Scotty 2 Hotty looks like a turtle now. Next.

- Wow, wow, WOW. I was so impressed with that women's match. Without a doubt the best divas or women's match I've seen in WWE/NXT in years. This topped the AJ/Kaitlyn matches. Emma's gimmick is goofy as hell but she's so easy to remember because of her signature dance and that awesome theme music. Paige has star written all over her. Her primal screams and gothic look remind me of MsChif, but she's far more attractive and may be a better wrestler. Emma held her own very well up until she took that Paige Turner real shittily. That's the only negative I could find in this. Fantastic back and forth women's match with wonderful submission work, great intensity, and a cool ass looking finisher. Oh and Stephanie, man. :homer

- So the main event was pretty underwhelming for me. I've seen PAC (Neville) wrestle a ton of times so I didn't see anything I haven't before and Bo didn't show me much to make me wanna seek out his matches. Both guys kinda seemed like they were out of their realm, which I sort of expected. It seemed to be spot, nothing happening for a couple minutes, then spot. Good enough for their first ever Ladder match I guess, but when you've seen so many crazy ones, a rather pedestrian one isn't gonna stick out. Congrats to Neville though.​


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans-Thanks for ruining Cesaro/Zayn for me, ya prick 

Speaking of criminally underrated matches, ADR vs Christian SS13'. All anyone wants to ever talk about is the 2 other main event matches from this show, and while they were absolutely amazing, ADR/Christian was a beautiful match to watch. It's one of the better paced, better structured, better flowing matches I've ever seen. All the moves and counters perfectly fit into the story they were going for, and the match just steadily escalated until the last 3-4 minutes where they kicked it into yet another gear and cemented the match as greatness. Really wish Christian would have won, but that's just personal preference. For those that have only seen it once or maybe twice, go back and watch it again and really study everything. You won't find anything other than wrestling bliss. I gave it **** but that almost seems like I'm under rating it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I didn't care for the ladder match, either, but would obviously go higher on Zayn/Cesaro (haven't seen their Indy matches) and I agree that the women's match was great.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

> Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn - ****


MOTHERFUCKER WHAT IS WRONG YOU???? :HHH



> Before anyone freaks out about how low my rating is for Cesaro/Zayn, hear me out. Don't get me wrong, it was an awesome match, BUT, I've seen it before. I've seen Claudio Castagnoli & El Generico 3 or 4 times on the indies have almost the same match or better ones. I've also seen them use the story of Cesaro attacking Zayn's leg in PWG and seen him sell it much, much better. So once again, great match but I've seen all those amazing counters and sequences all before... several times.  To many new viewers I'm sure it blew their minds though. Nothing wrong with that.


Oh, okay.

I caught Rey/Eddie from JD 2005, which was right before Cena/JBL, which is what I was intending to watch but for some reason didn't get to. Anyways, Rey/Eddie was pretty good. Certainly better than the ladder match, but I need to see the Smackdown and Halloween Havoc matches to see what I like most.

Honestly don't remember if I spoke of Eddie/JBL from JD 04 in here or not, but I saw that for the first time, and the match itself is pretty good (though JBL's promos on Mexicans were :lmao), I didn't come out of it thinking it was great. Eddie's blade job is NASTY, and the image of him making his comeback and firing up while covered in his own blood is pretty amazing. For some reason I thought JBL won the strap in that match, but turns out I was wrong. That made the finish more interesting for me at least.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Something about Gorilla and the Brain. Just pure gold. Also, really liked Gorilla and Jesse Ventura. Both just remind me of childhood. 

I thought Piper was awesome. When he called Heenan “boobs” I was rolling as a 10 year old. 

Now and again they had JR, Savage and Heenan. That was fun. 

As far as a voice goes....Gordon Solie has no equal. He would have been a great radio play by play guy. Amazing pipes.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Just re-watched RVD/Del Rio from NOC, I'm proud to say it is still awesome (Y)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Is it? Don't think I've seen that one. Didn't think you or Cody would ever give praise to an RVD match.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> Just re-watched RVD/Del Rio from NOC, I'm proud to say it is still awesome (Y)


Agreed.

Re-watched Punk/Lesnar a couple of days ago, and I like it more and more every time I watch it. Such brilliance. 

In the unlikely case that Punk returns some day, I'd love for him to face Lesnar at 'Mania and get his win back.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Is it? Don't think I've seen that one. Didn't think you or Cody would ever give praise to an RVD match.


Why would you think that? we love RVD haha.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Oh I just always figured you guys thought he was some washed up spot monkey hack. My bad.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Oh I just always figured you guys thought he was some washed up spot monkey hack. My bad.


No way haha, you know the people in the WWE we hate


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RFWHC said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Re-watched Punk/Lesnar a couple of days ago, and I like it more and more every time I watch it. Such brilliance.
> 
> In the unlikely case that Punk returns some day, I'd love for him to face Lesnar at 'Mania and get his win back.


 Punk/Brock is one match I can watch every fucking week. It's sublime, both men play their roles to perfection, and I don't subscribe to some people's opinions about the Heyman involvement bringing the match down a notch, I thought he added more depth to it, and it all fitted in nicely.

Watching it back, you can see why Punk was banged up afterwards lol.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

William Murderface said:


> No way haha, you know the people in the WWE we hate


No comment.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

William Murderface said:


> No way haha, you know the people in the WWE we hate


Yeah. What is you and Cody's favorite Kofi/Usos/Big E match then? 8*D


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Punk/Brock is one match I can watch every fucking week. It's sublime, both men play their roles to perfection, and I don't subscribe to some people's opinions about the Heyman involvement bringing the match down a notch, I thought he added more depth to it, and it all fitted in nicely.
> 
> Watching it back, you can see why Punk was banged up afterwards lol.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Agreed man. I get chills just watching it, from the entrances, to the ending. Punk mailed it from then on, but I don't have a major gripe with that, since he produced the three best matches of 2013, in my opinion.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn - ****
> 
> - Before anyone freaks out about how low my rating is for Cesaro/Zayn, hear me out. Don't get me wrong, it was an awesome match, BUT, I've seen it before. I've seen Claudio Castagnoli & El Generico 3 or 4 times on the indies have almost the same match or better ones. I've also seen them use the story of Cesaro attacking Zayn's leg in PWG and seen him sell it much, much better. So once again, great match but I've seen all those amazing counters and sequences all before... several times.  To many new viewers I'm sure it blew their minds though. Nothing wrong with that.


I haven't seen their indy matches but for me this was much more than leg work and selling. The prominent story being told was Zayn stopping at nothing to gain Cesaro's respect which I thought was woven nicely into the heel control and FIP segments and then further accentuated in the finishing stretch. Dandy stuff from the two of them. That said, my rating wouldn't be all that much higher than yours. Probably a solid ****1/4 but closer to ****1/2 than ****. Ugh, that sentence right there is why I've gone off star ratings.

Gonna re-watch this at some point. Pretty confident it's the 2nd best match this year.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Punk/Brock rules this earth. 

I actually liked the RVD/Del Rio hardcore match at Battleground. I mean, I kind of liked it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I still feel the story/structure of Hunter/Bryan was much akin to Cesaro/Zayn, albeit with the underdog coming out on top in the former.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

If I were given the option to choose between several options of Punk matches for a WM Main Event, don't really know which I'd choose. Punk/Bryan, Punk/Cena, and Punk/Lesnar would be the best three choices, I would say. I'd probably be for Punk/Lesnar, since we've only seen it once before, and it has the potential to be such a great match, plus, I'd like to see Punk get his win back, as a fan.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RFWHC said:


> If I were given the option to choose between several options of Punk matches for a WM Main Event, don't really know which I'd choose. Punk/Bryan, Punk/Cena, and Punk/Lesnar would be the best three choices, I would say. I'd probably be for Punk/Lesnar, since we've only seen it once before, and it has the potential to be such a great match, plus, I'd like to see Punk get his win back, as a fan.


One reason why I'd love to see Brock/Bryan at some point. Surely we are getting that and maybe Brock/Cesaro.

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----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I still feel the story/structure of Hunter/Bryan was much akin to Cesaro/Zayn, albeit with the underdog coming out on top in the former.


Similar in that they both OWN.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Punk took one incredible ass kicking in that Brock match. No one can ever doubt his toughness after watching that. Brock was just brutalizing him and he kept getting back up and giving it right back.

JackEvans: I just thought of a fair argument to your point about Cesaro/Zayn. Why should the fact that you have seen the wrestlers in question perform a lot of the same spots cause you to rate the match lower than you would have had you not seen it? I'm not saying you're wrong for doing so I'm just asking out of curiosity. In my view, just because the guys might have performed a similar match before shouldn't detract from how highly or lowly you view a match. For example, I assume most people have seen the Benoit/Regal match from the Pillman Memorial Show, as well as the one on Velocity, and finally the one at No Mercy 2006. All 3 of those matches contain a lot of similar moves and sequences, but I don't think anyone thinks that's a discredit to the overall match, atleast from what I've seen. I'm not saying those matches are the same or anything, far from it as I think all 3 are genuine classics and I actually enjoy the call backs. It's the same with Bret vs Perfect from Summerslam 1991 and KotR 1993. Those matches contain a bunch of similar sequences but I've never seen them criticized for it. Just wondering why you think in the case of Cesaro/Zayn that their match shouldn't be rated as highly because they've done similar spots and worked the same limb before.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Lesnar/Bryan and Lesnar/Cesaro have the potential to be even better than Lesnar/Punk, which is crazy to think about because Brock/Punk is fan-fucking-tastic.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Better than Punk/Lesnar? :wall


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Similar in that they both OWN.






Saint Dick said:


> Lesnar/Bryan and Lesnar/Cesaro have the potential to be even better than Lesnar/Punk, which is crazy to think about because Brock/Punk is fan-fucking-tastic.


Agreed. I think Bryan/Lesnar would be a better version of what Lesnar/Rey in 2003 was, and Lesnar/Cesaro would be brutal and stiff as FUCK. :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> Better than Punk/Lesnar? :wall


Cesaro and Bryan are both better wrestlers, so on paper, it should be.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I agree with that, and I guess they'd be better in different ways. However, Punk's selling as a babyface was like none other. I've seen Bryan do that do a degree, but not Cesaro. Doesn't mean that he can't.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hopefully we get one of those at SummerSlam and the other at Mania 31. Fuck wasting Brock on Rock. I don't care how big a match it is, I have no interest.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Me neither. I have no interest in another Rock match period, to be honest.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I don't want to see Rock wrestle, but Brock/Rock actually interests me. I think it would have that big fight feel, and I would love seeing Brock murder Rock. I'm honestly not sure if Rock would actually go over. If Brock hadn't just beaten Taker, then I might be might more sure.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Unless if a match has storyline connections or depends on callback spots, I don't think that "rating" matches should be dependent on prior matches. So long as things work out well like they did in Cesaro/Zayn, then that's good enough for me. But it's Jack Evans 187 and I stole his format for reviewing shows, so I have no right to complain about him.

RVD mostly rules. The "mostly" is because his time in TNA was hideous, and dude's carelessness for safety is inexcusable, but he's so much fun to watch. RVD/ADR from NoC 2013 is super underrated.

:lmao X-Pac botched a low blow in this match against Jericho. It looked like he wanted to low blow the referee, but in mid-lowblow, he switched to kick Jericho in the cajones. During this match, Tazz says the GOAT non-Heenan comment towards Cole: "If I had to work with you for more than one night Cole, I would probably kill myself". :lmao. This is all from the 9/7/2000 episode of Smackdown.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

RVD can fuck right off. I'd rather watch Jinder Mahal.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Then you should watch Jinder Mahal vs. Seth Rollins.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> I agree with that, and I guess they'd be better in different ways. However, Punk's selling as a babyface was like none other. I've seen Bryan do that do a degree, but not Cesaro. Doesn't mean that he can't.


Cesaro is not an underdog, though. It would be better in a different way. And Punk's selling is not even why I enjoyed the match so much as it was Brock wrecking shit. Was just awesome to see him manhandle Punk and toss him around, I couldn't help but want more.

For Brock matches, I still only care to see BROCK/ORTON atm, though. Fuck everything.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ladder match on NXT ruled. Divas was crap pardon some good early striking by Paige actually looking to cut loose. Don't even have to talk about Zayn vs Cesaro being as magically orgasmic as it is. But it's totally magically orgasmic. Even if by the finish, I got flaccid. 

Enigmatic analogies. :zayn3


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Holy shit, why did we love the Angle/Triple H feud as kids? This shit is so cringeworthy. No wonder Ted Dibiase and Bruno Sammartino didn't condone the WWE during this period. It's such a stupid feud that led to nothing but a shitty "face" turn by Triple H and a horrible match at Unforgiven. I'm really worried that the Matt Hardy/Edge feud will end up being just as cringeworthy when I rewatch it. I watched this one promo recently of Matt Hardy talking about how he wanted Edge and Lita to die in a car crash, and it was really really bad.

Call me crazy, but I think Orton/Brock could have worked last year at Extreme Rules. The show was at Orton's home town, and Brock had no business feuding with Triple H, let alone losing to him at Mania. The match itself could have been pretty fun considering it's :brock and a motivated Orton. But alas, what happened, happened.

Extreme Rules 2011 is a good show all around. I just wish the main event was Christian/Del Rio instead of the cage match. You don't get feel good moments like that very often. I think I like their Summerslam match more though. That match was soooo good. And the match prior to Summerslam 2013 on Smackdown that went for nearly 20 minutes. Yup. 2013 WWE :lenny


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

William Murderface said:


> Just re-watched RVD/Del Rio from NOC, I'm proud to say it is still awesome (Y)


:agree:



Saint Dick said:


> I haven't seen their indy matches but for me this was much more than leg work and selling. The prominent story being told was Zayn stopping at nothing to gain Cesaro's respect which I thought was woven nicely into the heel control and FIP segments and then further accentuated in the finishing stretch. Dandy stuff from the two of them. That said, my rating wouldn't be all that much higher than yours. Probably a solid ****1/4 but closer to ****1/2 than ****. Ugh, that sentence right there is why I've gone off star ratings.
> 
> Gonna re-watch this at some point. Pretty confident it's the 2nd best match this year.





The Rabid Wolverine said:


> JackEvans: I just thought of a fair argument to your point about Cesaro/Zayn. Why should the fact that you have seen the wrestlers in question perform a lot of the same spots cause you to rate the match lower than you would have had you not seen it? I'm not saying you're wrong for doing so I'm just asking out of curiosity. In my view, just because the guys might have performed a similar match before shouldn't detract from how highly or lowly you view a match. For example, I assume most people have seen the Benoit/Regal match from the Pillman Memorial Show, as well as the one on Velocity, and finally the one at No Mercy 2006. All 3 of those matches contain a lot of similar moves and sequences, but I don't think anyone thinks that's a discredit to the overall match, atleast from what I've seen. I'm not saying those matches are the same or anything, far from it as I think all 3 are genuine classics and I actually enjoy the call backs. It's the same with Bret vs Perfect from Summerslam 1991 and KotR 1993. Those matches contain a bunch of similar sequences but I've never seen them criticized for it. Just wondering why you think in the case of Cesaro/Zayn that their match shouldn't be rated as highly because they've done similar spots and worked the same limb before.


I'm not necessarily discrediting the two at all for having a similar match than what they've had before, it's just basically saying it has more of an impact seeing it for the first time. For their other 3 major indy encounters, there was always something at stake. 

ROH Race to the Top Tournament Night 2 it was in the finals of the tournament for the winner's trophy. Both men had already wrestled twice on the night so they were both exhausted and threw nothing but bombs at each other the whole match. Incredible spots, some of which were used in the NXT match this year. First time seeing those two face each other and it was a doozy. **** - **** 1/4 for that affair. 

PWG Kurt RusselReunion II it was for the PWG World Title in Cesaro/Claudio's first defense. Main event on a huge show and a ton at stake. They went the route of using Generico/Zayn's leg as the story and it worked beautifully. He sold it incredibly well. Believe I gave one **** too.

Their other major match was at PWG's 2011 Battle of Los Angeles, one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) tournament on the indies. Loaded card so this was a first round match, which says something about the talent because they had just main evented for the belt last year. This is the match I remember the least of, but it was all about counters and spots and crazy chemistry and I know it's the first time I'd ever seen Generico beat Claudio. I wanna say *** 3/4 on that one, might have been the full 4 again.

Basically what I'm trying to say here is that I've seen these guys wrestle many times and the 4th match between didn't hit me as such a classic like the previous ones have. There was a lot more at stake in the other 3 and many of the things they did were fresh to my eyes. Different environments envoke different reactions and the weird thing is that there's been almost the same amount of people watching all of those matches, yet one was sort of in a WWE ring.  Plus, the factor of things being unexpected and new plays a lot into how I enjoy a match.



HayleySabin said:


> Ladder match on NXT ruled. Divas was crap pardon some good early striking by Paige actually looking to cut loose. Don't even have to talk about Zayn vs Cesaro being as magically orgasmic as it is. But it's totally magically orgasmic. Even if by the finish, I got flaccid.
> 
> Enigmatic analogies. :zayn3


What'd you like about the ladder match so much?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I watched this one promo recently of Matt Hardy talking about how he wanted Edge and Lita to die in a car crash, and it was really really bad.


:lmao


1)Punk/Orton at ER > Punk/Orton at WM.


2)Re-watched *Brock/Taker HIAC* earlier tonight, and might go the full five stars on it. Will have to watch a third time to really decide, but it went way up on second watch. Was the epitome of a roller coaster ride, and I liked seeing Brock get beaten up & gotten the better of, before it became an all out war. Brutal, great, and the ending was the capper.


3)Watched *Brock/Gowen* for the first time. LOL. Just great. It's incredible that while knowing that wrestling is a work, I still felt tremendous empathy for Gowen.

I went into it thinking that the whole idea was kind of ridiculous, and so overtly a play for sympathy that I'd just roll my eyes at it, but that Gowen guy is _really_ good. And Brock is just such a wonderfully immense asshole.

It's not just that Gowen is missing a leg, but I think that he'd be a perfect babyface anyway. 

One tremendous squash, and I think that they probably exceeded what they were even going for here. Brock is just such a great performer, and Gowen is the perfect babyface.


4)Watched *Vince/Gowen* and didn't like it as much as I wanted to. Got really bored with it, actually. Wanted Vince to be a bigger asshole. However, it did get good toward the end, and again, I came away extremely impressed with Gowen.

I had this idea in my head of how he was going to be before ever watching him, and he's so much better than what you'd expect.

Legitimately impressive in terms of what he can do, but even better in terms of portraying someone you'd want to really root for.

Surprised that he only lasted a couple of years in the WWE, after looking him up. I feel that they could have done more with him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> What'd you like about the ladder match so much?


The use of the ladder as being organic for 99% of everything that was done in the match. Not a lot of bullshit to where _"oh look, hey it's a ladder. Time to do some dumb things w/it instead of trying to win the match"_. The big pay off spot was the way the match ended. Like how it should. Real good work from both. I'm still often defending Bo on a daily basis, tbhayley.

And I have Generico vs Claudio from BOLA 2011 as their best match from the indies. What wonder. The whole night was full of it. Nothing makes me happier in PWG than that night. Not even Holy Diver Down or Steen Wolf. The BOLA win and the story that can w/it all felt MUCH more significant and amazing than either one of his championship wins.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> The use of the ladder as being organic for 99% of everything that was done in the match. Not a lot of bullshit to where _"oh look, hey it's a ladder. Time to do some dumb things w/it instead of trying to win the match"_. The big pay off spot was the way the match ended. Like how it should. Real good work from both. I'm still often defending Bo on a daily basis, tbhayley.
> 
> And I have Generico vs Claudio from BOLA 2011 as their best match from the indies. What wonder. The whole night was full of it. Nothing makes me happier in PWG than that night. Not even Holy Diver Down or Steen Wolf. The BOLA win and the story that can w/it all felt MUCH more significant and amazing than either one of his championship wins.


I can understand those sentiments then. Bo is a member of that Rotunda family, so I'm sure he's got plenty of talent. The women's match on the other hand, that was fantastic. Anything I should seek out from NXT this year? It goes back to Feb. 5th on the network. How was the rematch from Bo & Neville too?

BOLA 2011 is legit one of the greatest moments I've ever witnessed in wrestling. Right up there.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All the matches worth seeing from NXT this year from my TV list:

1) *Two out of Three Falls Match*
Sami Zayn vs Leo Kruger (10:24) - 1/1

2) Adrian Neville vs Corey Graves (11:19) - 2/12

3) Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn (23:02) - 2/27

4) *NXT Championship - Ladder Match*
Bo Dallas(c) vs Adrian Neville (15:45) - 2/27

5) Sami Zayn vs Corey Graves (9:42) - 3/6

6) Sheamus vs Aiden English (8:53) - 3/20

7) *NXT Championship*
Adrian Neville(c) vs Bo Dallas (11:33) - 3/27

8) Corey Graves vs Sami Zayn (13:54) - 4/3

Neville vs Bo rematch was really top notch, tbhayley. Almost think I have it over the ladder match by a hair. Loved the ending; WWE letting Neville try out something new. Zayn vs Graves 4/3 is stellar. Zayn shines as the definitive babyface and Graves proves why people should care about him. Finally finding his niche.

I wouldn't sleep on the heel interviews w/CJ Parker either. He's lumped w/that shit Mojo Rawley so his ring work isn't gonna be anything to see. But character wise, he's awesome. A heel hippy. WWE fed my ego by turning him down the path I suggested in posts on here/via texts to anyone I randomly shot the shit w/ and all that annoying tripe. So I guess that's why I dig it so much. But still, people don't like hippies. And then when they become self-righteous, you hate 'em more. Joy.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Still think Elimination Chamber is 2nd MOTY behind the obvious Shield/Wyatt Family


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Gonna watch Dallas/Neville ladder match tonight. Possibly the rematch as well. Graves/Zayn 4/3 is great.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was are peoples' thoughts on the Midnight Express/Steiner Brothers match?

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----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Yeah. What is you and Cody's favorite Kofi/Usos/Big E match then? 8*D


They have actually had a good match? 8*D

At FunnyFaces: I hate the Usos too


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks to FunnyFaces for the rep...here is Zach Gowen's reddit chat:

http://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCirc...ach_gowen_ask_me_anything_lets_start_this_off


Nice to see that he has some nice things to say about Brock, & I totally agree with him about the finish to the Gowen/Vince match:



Spoiler: spoiler



*Question:* Zach, I remember the episode when you faced Brock on Smackdown (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1nJu2YmawAY) and I had a few questions

Your mom was in the crowd there. What was it like having to tell your mother to let you get the hell beat out of you and she would be sitting ringside watching all of it happen (especially one of the hardest chair shots I've ever seen to someone's head and you bladed way too much)?

At the same time, how did Lesnar react in creative to being told he would be beating the hell out of a one-legged kid while his mother screamed at him to leave her son alone? Did he have any reservations, like that was even too much for him or anything like that? Or was it just "that's what I'm here to do"

*Zach: 1) My mom was a fantastic sport and a helluva promo.

2) Brock was always cool with me and took care of me 1000%. I love him forever for that. That's a testament to his professionalism and dedication.*


*Question:* Whats its like working with Brock? Is he nice? Does he care about putting on good matches?

*Zach: Brock was always great to me. I think he gets a bad rap because he doesn't really fit into the "wrasslin' culture". I think he's a great dude and loved working with him. He cares about doing the best job he can do, no matter what arena he's competing in. The guy's a competitor.*


*Question:* Did it hurt when Brock Lesnar beat the ever loving crap out of you?

*Zach: No. I attribute that to Brock's professionalism, the adrenaline of performing at Joe Louis Arena, and being 20 years old! Not sure how it would feel now tho lol*

*Questioner:* Wow! Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I remember watching that segment and wincing in pain when you were F5'd into the ring post. I guess I should give Brock more props.


*Question:* Did the match with Vince get cut short because of his gaping head wound? It always seemed a little off that it ended the way it did. Big fan by the way.

*Zach: Thank you!! No, it went as planned. But it does look that way, with the finish coming out of nowhere. I really feel we should have done a better finish.*



Whole thing is a good read. Dude seems to be quite smart about the business, plus he has a good sense of humor.

Vince's reaction to getting his head bashed in doesn't surprise me at all.


_ETA:_
Also, I didn't realize that that was really Gowen's mother. Thought for sure it was an actress. She seems totally like a movie mom, lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

One of these days, The Usos will have more haters than HHH.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

William Murderface said:


> They have actually had a good match? 8*D
> 
> At FunnyFaces: I hate the Usos too


Well I recall a few in here praising a Cesaro/Kofi match, with those saying things such as: ''Cesaro's so great he can even get a good match out of Kofi Kingston '' But I don't think I've seen the match. :side:

Someone will probably be able to point out which match I'm referring to.


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> Well I recall a few in here praising a Cesaro/Kofi match, with those saying things such as: ''Cesaro's so great he can even get a good match out of Kofi Kingston '' But I don't think I've seen the match. :side:
> 
> Someone will probably be able to point out which match I'm referring to.


Can't remember the exact date but it was the match on Main Event.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*Undertaker vs Batista for the World Heavyweight Champion (Smackdown 25/04/2008) - *****

Really awesome match and one of the best TV matches in 2008,Taker/Batista series of matches were great.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

robertdeniro said:


> *Undertaker vs Batista for the World Heavyweight Champion (Smackdown 25/04/2008) - *****
> 
> Really awesome match and one of the best TV matches in 2008,Taker/Batista series of matches were great.


I adore their 2007 series, but have yet to watch their 2008 SD matches. 

Still looking for that 2008 Taker/HHH SD match, anyone got a link? EDIT: Found it on YT I think.

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----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rewatched Angle/Lesnar from WM XIX, damn forgot how awesome that match was. ****1/4, hands down, gotta watch their Summerslam match next and then their SD Iron Man match.Any other Angle/Brock match that I should check out?


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Rewatched Lesnar/Punk. Still ***** in my book.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

Been watching old RAW's recently from the Network, with the most recent one being episode #4. Been pretty easy to get through so far because the episodes are only like 45 minutes long and the matches usually tend to be pretty short and sweet. Have to say though that this Rob Bartlett guy doing commentary with Vince and Savage/Heenan is just awful.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Neville vs Bo rematch was really top notch, tbhayley. Almost think I have it over the ladder match by a hair.* Loved the ending; WWE letting Neville try out something new.* Zayn vs Graves 4/3 is stellar. Zayn shines as the definitive babyface and Graves proves why people should care about him. Finally finding his niche.


That imploding 450 :ass

I presume they're going to treat Neville similarly to Zayn in the sense that they're slowly but surely going to showcase his moveset rather than blow his load so quickly. Like we didn't see the "through the turnbuckle DDT" from Zayn until a few months in, or the exploder, or other things that I may be forgetting about (he didn't use the helluva for a while, did he). But yeah, I really like that, it's clever and just another thing to praise the bookers/writers/higher ups of NXT for.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> Rewatched Angle/Lesnar from WM XIX, damn forgot how awesome that match was. ****1/4, hands down, gotta watch their Summerslam match next and then their SD Iron Man match.Any other Angle/Brock match that I should check out?



They only had 3 singles matches, I rated them like this:

SS 2003: ****1/2
SD IronMan: ****1/2
WM 19: ****

For such a classic rivalry, I think it's almost fitting they only squared off 3 times. Every match had that "big fight" feel. If Angle truly comes back, I'd like to see him wrestle Bryan once, Punk once (if he comes back), and then have one last retirement match with Lesnar. However, if he ends up looking like shit vs Bryan, he should probably just retire. I haven't seen one single match of his since he left for TNA, so I have no idea how he looks in the ring now.

They also had a handicap match at SVS 2003 that I haven't seen in a while:

Benoit/Lesnar vs Kurt and Team Angle


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That would be NWO 2003, not SVS, Chris/Wolverine.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Plus you can add the Vengeance 2003 three way: Lesnar vs Angle vs Show.

Plus they had a few tags on SD, and of course a match in Japan in '07.

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----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> The commentary team is so bad at this point.


I mute the tv more times than I don't at this point. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Some nobody mentioned IYH: Final Four as being a really underappreciated PPV and I have to agree with that. Not only is the main event the best of its gimmick type, but the tag match on that show is so freakin' good. Everyone go watch the three Owen/Bulldog vs. Furnas/Lafon matches in 1997.


Hammer meet nail. 1997 WWF all damn day! 



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Don't think it needed 20 minutes either. Rey/Angle is like the best opener and it's under 10 minutes.


Excellent opener. Still give Bret v Owen the nod for best and I adore Mankind/HHH cage match at Summerslam 97 but Rey/Angle was awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lesnar/Angle also had a singles match on SD not long before WM 19, where Angle pinned Lesnar using the old Eric Angle trick like he did to Taker at SVS 00 . The original plan was for Lesnar to win the title there because they didn't think Angle would make it to WM due to his fucked up neck.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Eric Angle! 

Has there ever been anyone more random than that man mentioned in this thread? what a bloke!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Lesnar/Angle also had a singles match on SD not long before WM 19, where Angle pinned Lesnar using the old Eric Angle trick like he did to Taker at SVS 00 . The original plan was for Lesnar to win the title there because they didn't think Angle would make it to WM due to his fucked up neck.


I do wonder who would have been Brock's opponent if Angle didn't make it to WM.

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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I *think* they were considering Benoit for it, which would remove him and Rhyno from the tag title match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I *think* they were considering Benoit for it, which would remove him and Rhyno from the tag title match.


I would have loved to have seen a one on one PPV match with Brock/Benoit. At least we have the SD match. 

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----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

edit: shit sorry, wrong thread


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Well I recall a few in here praising a Cesaro/Kofi match, with those saying things such as: ''Cesaro's so great he can even get a good match out of Kofi Kingston '' But I don't think I've seen the match. :side:
> 
> Someone will probably be able to point out which match I'm referring to.


I didn't think that match was anything special, I probably wasn't paying much attention because I was so jaded that Kofi had a another title.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> For such a classic rivalry, I think it's almost fitting they only squared off 3 times.







:jordan2 Painfully average, though.


----------



## ChristiansPeep13 (Mar 29, 2014)

Feel like starting my reviewing career off. Anyone have any random selection for PPVs for me to review?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^^watch KOTR 1995 8*D 

No but you should review the bash 2008 


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----------



## ChristiansPeep13 (Mar 29, 2014)

SMITTY said:


> ^^watch KOTR 1995 8*D
> 
> No but you should review the bash 2008
> 
> ...


Bash '08. Hmm. Sounds good with me. Is that the one with the Bullrope match? Either way, will watch soon.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Nah that's 04. This show is pretty fun, opening tag is ok, hardy/Benjamin is crazy underrated, hbk/Jericho is awesome, punk/Batista is also fun 

Hhh/edge and jbl/Cena I don't remember much about.




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----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> Well I recall a few in here praising a Cesaro/Kofi match, with those saying things such as: ''Cesaro's so great he can even get a good match out of Kofi Kingston '' But I don't think I've seen the match. :side:
> 
> Someone will probably be able to point out which match I'm referring to.


Dont listen to Murderface, he likes Wade Barrett 

I think Cesaro/Kingston was very good from a standpoint it truly is a 100% carryjob and hell of a match. I also remember there being 1 or 2 good ziggler/kofi matches out of 20000

Watched Naitch/Savage Mania 8 for the first time in a while, yea I take back everything I said before its phenomenal. SO simple yet effective, love all the little details with the Perfect interactions and the giving of brass knuckles to Flair


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS said:


> Watched Naitch/Savage Mania 8 for the first time in a while, yea I take back everything I said before its phenomenal. SO simple yet effective, love all the little details with the Perfect interactions and the giving of brass knuckles to Flair


Glad you finally understand just how great that match is. 

It's such a classic, as a kid I remember loving the build up too, which if course transcended the match to the heated fight it was. Fucking love it. :mark:

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh the build up is probably top 5 for me, I just love it ELIZABETH WAS MINE !! :mark: and then the segment with Mean Gene Perfect and Naitch with the fake pics in the tabloid :banderas 

Heenan/Perfect/Flair trio was GOAT


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Dont listen to Murderface, he likes Wade Barrett
> 
> I think Cesaro/Kingston was very good from a standpoint it truly is a 100% carryjob and hell of a match. I also remember there being 1 or 2 good ziggler/kofi matches out of 20000
> 
> Watched Naitch/Savage Mania 8 for the first time in a while, yea I take back everything I said before its phenomenal. SO simple yet effective, love all the little details with the Perfect interactions and the giving of brass knuckles to Flair


Says the HBK fan 

You doubted the greatness of Savage/Flair from WM 8? :shocked:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

So I was bored tonight until I've found this very interesting top in whatculture: http://whatculture.com/wwe/12-famous-wwe-matches-ever.php/3 and decided to rewatch some of these matches. My ratings for them:

Brock/Taker WM30 **3/4, this match is actually pretty good when you rewatch it
Hart/Bulldog- SS92 ****1/2, it's a masterpiece, do I have to say more?
Rock/Cena WM28, ***1/2, I like to rate the crowd to, and they add a lot to this match which wasn't as bad as some people say
Punk/Cena MITB 11- *****, one of my favourite matches of all time
Austin/Rock WM17 *****, I might overrate this one, but this match made me fall in love with wrestling, so don't judge me 
HBK/Razor WM10- ****1/4, I've seen people giving this one five starts and I don;t know why. It was an incredible match, but not a GOAT one.
Hart/Austin WM 13 *****, no words here
Warrior/Hogan, WM 6 ****1/2
Austin/HBK WM14- ***1/4, never liked this one very much
Taker/Manking KOTR 98- ***1/2
HBK/Bret SS97- ***, the match was not very good, but it was good enough
Hogan/Andre- **, this one sucked, but I can't give it less than two stars


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I like how you called him *Manking*, cause that's exactly what Mick Foley is _INSERTMICKFOLEYSMILEYHERE_


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Was watching WARRIOR WEEK~! on the Network when I came across a match that caught my eye. I haven't written a review in a long time, so forgive me if it's p. shite.

*Shawn Michaels vs. Jerry Lawler- WWF Monday Night Raw- 04.07.96
*So, this episode of Raw was part of “Warrior Week” on the Network, and on the preview, I read that this was the main event of the show. This peaked my interest for obvious reasons. The match gets about eight minutes of television time, which is fine, but severely limits the kind of match that these two probably were capable of back during this time period.
BIG DADDY COOL~! joined Vince McMahon and Mr. Perfect on commentary. He was fine, but this was fifteen or so years before Chet Lemon would grace our screens in the Impact Zone. 
Michaels outwrestles Lawler to start out. Michaels doesn’t take Jerry seriously, as he lounges on top of one of the turnbuckles, before sliding to the outside of the ring and slapping hands with the fans, whom Michaels called the “kliq.” 
Lawler’s offense in the match mainly consists of punches and one piledriver, which Michaels kicks out of at two to no reaction from the crowd. I’ve always loved King whilst he was a heel in the WWE, so forgive me if I laughed when Lawler offered a fan a high-five, yet withdrew his hand at the last second, leaving the fan dismayed whilst Lawler bellowed out a hearty cackle.
The finishing stretch is pretty basic. Michaels hits his signature spots, such as the flying forearm and top-rope elbow drop. Michaels jaw jacks with Diesel on the outside as Lawler gets to his feet. Lawler tries to make one final go at Michaels, but Michaels turns around at exactly the right moment and strikes Lawler with Sweet Chin Music for the pinfall. This was a perfectly acceptable television main event, although I do wish these two could have gotten fifteen+ minutes.
*Rating- **
*


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

Wrestlemania 30 - A not full review but some opinions.

Have to first say this was the least I've looked forward to a Mania is many many years so going in my expectations were low in many respects which probably helped my enjoyment of it on the whole

Opening Segment was awesome first time round but realistically was a love in and slightly long. Blaspheme I know. Great moment for anyone seeing it live though.

Triple H vs Daniel Bryan: ****1/4 - Really enjoyable, felt the story told was one which everybody could get in to. Dat video package by the way :clap Hunters offence seemed purposeful where sometimes I have found it not so in the past. Stephanie was awesome in this too plus Yum. Hot crowd, big moment. ***** FOR THE HHH entrance though!

Shield vs Old Jobbers: ** - Squash match but short and sweet and did the job. Shame these guys didn't get a big match but looks like Evolution at Extreme Rules can make up for that

30 Man Chicken Royale Match - **1/2 - Well the less said about the first half of this the better. Really got going around the time Fandango did his dance and got eliminated. Cool Kofi spot again. Seriously just make him exclusive to battle royales please. The ending though was :mark: Tbh I added half a star just for that. But hey it was fun. Could see this becoming brutal if it happens every year though...

Bray Wyatt vs John Cena: **** - Again that video!!!! See I just can't get enough of Bray so may mark this up more than some (haven't really read many other views of this match). Crowd was awesome in parts of it. Not a wrestling clinic but fun and good storytelling again here. Have to say I was fuming that Cena won at the time but from where we are now it doesn't seem to have hurt Bray at all so I let them off.

Brock Lesnar vs Undertaker: **3/4 - :duncan 
Perhaps the most shocked I've been in my life. Hugely disappointing match this mind but with Taker as beat up (and concused)then that's understandable. Forever will be a moment in time. The crowd. The Heyman. The silence. Just epic if a little sad.

Divas shite: ***** - obviously. Right girl won. :AJ

Randy Orton vs Batista vs Daniel Bryan: ****1/4 MOTN - Well I absolutely love this match. And I don't really know why. Was not expecting it at all. Not a Daniel Bryan mark by any stretch of the imagination and quite frankly couldn't give a flying fuck about the other two. But this was epic. Props to Batista and Orton as I felt they put on some entertaining stuff when it was just those two. The near falls had me. After Takers loss anything seemed possible. Bryan was always winning though. Epic moment even for a non Bryan mark. 

Overall there are many key strengths which make me love this event. Is there an absolute classic for the ages here? No. Is the match quality superb? No. But I honestly feel this is a show which I could watch ALL THE WAY THROUGH many times without wanting to skip anything really, even the divas is short enough to recover from the streak drama to sit through and lol. And despite the match quality not being tip tip top there are three of the biggest moments ever here. The opening segment I won't forget, Takers loss I will never ever ever forget and of course the ending was pretty magical. Also, despite my overall match quality comments there are three 4 star matches here plus the rest all being enjoyable if not clinics. Had everything I look for in a wrestling event and then some and so in my eyes slips in just behind WM24 in 5th in all time Manias.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I bought the Ric Flair - The Definitive Collection DVD at my local FYE store today (It was $7. What a steal!) and I just watched the documentary. Excellent stuff and it makes you remember why Flair is one of the GOATs in the business :flair3


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> I bought the Ric Flair - The Definitive Collection DVD at my local FYE store today (It was $7. What a steal!) and I just watched the documentary. Excellent stuff and it makes you remember why Flair is one of the GOATs in the business :flair3


You should also pick the Ric Flair: The Ultimate Collection Set up if you havn't already of course, one of the GOAT sets with a great match listing.

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----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> You should also pick the Ric Flair: The Ultimate Collection Set up if you havn't already of course, one of the GOAT sets with a great match listing.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Funny thing is that I went to my local FYE store a couple of months back and they were selling that DVD also for $7. I don't know why I didn't pick that one up. Hopefully I'll find it again someday lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> I bought the Ric Flair - The Definitive Collection DVD at my local FYE store today (It was $7. What a steal!) and I just watched the documentary. Excellent stuff and it makes you remember why Flair is one of the GOATs in the business :flair3


Great deal. Flair is the Michael Jordan of pro wrestling in my opinion. There is only 1 major professional sport in the USA where there is one definitive "Greatest Player Ever", that sport is basketball and that player was MJ. No one in their right mind can ever deny he is the greatest player of all time and in all likely hood that will never change. Flair is that guy in pro wrestling for me. He isn't even one of my top 5 favorites (although his character probably is, if that makes sense) but I just don't see how anyone in can say there was a better North American Pro Wrestler than the Nature Boy. He is the be all end all, I really hope you enjoy watching his greatness (Y)



SKINS said:


> Oh the build up is probably top 5 for me, I just love it ELIZABETH WAS MINE !! :mark: and then the segment with Mean Gene Perfect and Naitch with the fake pics in the tabloid :banderas
> 
> Heenan/Perfect/Flair trio was GOAT


FINALLY you come around to the sane side and realize just how truly amazing that match is. Its without a doubt a top 10 match in Mania History, I also have it in the top 10 for Ric's career.



The Hitman said:


> You should also pick the Ric Flair: The Ultimate Collection Set up if you havn't already of course, one of the GOAT sets with a great match listing.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App



Good plug. This is the Flair set that I own and I can fully attest to it's greatness. It has 2 Steamboat matches, the Funk I Quit match, the incredibly underrated Windham match from 1987, AND the 1992 Royal Rumble. Hard to top that, although I still think the original Bret Hart documentary set gets the nod for best match assortment on a wrestlers DVD.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Does Wayne Gretzky not count?

Tajiri/Super Crazy.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Am I the only one who loves HHH v. Rock at _Fully Loaded 1998_? The 2/3 Falls match for the Intercontinental title, to be more specific.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Does Wayne Gretzky not count?
> 
> Tajiri/Super Crazy.



fpalm

God I'm such a retard at times. Yes Gretzky definitely counts. I don't watch Hockey except for a handful of Caps games and the Finals every year but even I know Gretzky was GOAT. Thanks for that, chief (Y)

What was Tajiri's best singles match between his ECW and WWE days?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> Am I the only one who loves HHH v. Rock at _Fully Loaded 1998_? The 2/3 Falls match for the Intercontinental title, to be more specific.



Never seen it but I've seen many claim it's absolutely awful. I'm not a fan of the strap match they had either, can't remember when that was. Their Ladder match at SS was good, not GREAT or anything but definitely good. They didn't have a GREAT match until Backlash 2000 unless I'm forgetting one.

Don't Hunter and Rocky hold the record for most PPV's main evented together? I thought I remember reading somewhere they had like 7 PPV main event matches with each other, which is just nuts.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

What about Babe Ruth?


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----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Never seen it but I've seen many claim it's absolutely awful. I'm not a fan of the strap match they had either, can't remember when that was. Their Ladder match at SS was good, not GREAT or anything but definitely good. They didn't have a GREAT match until Backlash 2000 unless I'm forgetting one.
> 
> Don't Hunter and Rocky hold the record for most PPV's main evented together? I thought I remember reading somewhere they had like 7 PPV main event matches with each other, which is just nuts.


It's by no means great, per se, but is a lot of fun. Probably like *** 1/4 or 1/2 in terms of quality, but it isn't bad as in Khali bad. Just a lot of run ins from DX and NoD that were unnecessary, but gave the match an anarchic feeling, which I think they were going for.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Been trying to catch up with a lot of stuff from this year:

*CM Punk vs. Roman Reigns (Old School RAW 1/6/14) - *** 1/4*
Extremely slow paced match, but a good one. Good selling of the ribs from Punk and a great finishing stretch. Really big win for Reigns.

*The Shield vs. John Cena, Daniel Bryan, & Sheamus (RAW 1/27/14) - *** 1/2
*The usual good stuff from the Shield. Long iso segment on Cena until he hit that completely random AA that was no sold.  Finishing stretch was crazy as always. Love all interactions we can see between Rollins and Bryan.

Also watched Real Americans vs. Rhodes Bros from Old School RAW. Really good stuff there with limited time. Pretty sure this is all I want/need to see from January. If anything else screams out feel free to tell me. May track down Zayn/Kruger from NXT sometime. Never seen anything from Leo.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Great deal. Flair is the Michael Jordan of pro wrestling in my opinion.


:banderas:favre5:rose1:hbk1

This guy is my new best friend.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> What was Tajiri's best singles match between his ECW and WWE days?


The match w/ Psicosis.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Haven't seen these matches in years, so I decided to pop in disc 3 of _Shawn Michaels: My Journey_.

*WWE Championship - Fatal 4-Way
*John Cena (c) vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels (_Backlash 2007_) - *****

*Still an incredibly fun match. Total chaos from bell to bell, never knew what was gonna happen next. The ending sequence started to look really weird but came together nicely for a clever finish.

------------------------

*WWE Championship
*Randy Orton (c) vs. Shawn Michaels (_Survivor Series 2007_) - ***** 1/4

*This one is still incredibly well worked and a borderline classic. The stipulation of Michaels not being able to use Sweet Chin Music was pure genius and allowed him to use every other way possible to try and beat Orton. Busted out every submission in the books and the crowd ate it up. Brilliant booking in the finish with Shawn instinctively going for SCM out of nowhere but hesitating and getting caught with the RKO. Wonderful stuff.

------------------------

Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker (_Wrestlemania 25_) - ***** 1/2

*Believe it or not, this is my first time viewing this match since it originally aired. So when you guys are always talking about which of the two are better, I'm always just like... yeah I haven't seen them in years.  Anyway, great story throughout this with Shawn defying Undertaker's legacy and trying to make him submit or just win by any means necessary. The first half of this is wonderful all the way up until that badass dive sequence they had where the cameraman gets destroyed. Great countout spot, but from there on out I found myself getting a bit impatient, much like I did with the two most recent streak matches with Triple H. Yes there was some big time moves and huge nearfalls, but I found myself wanting to fast forward through all the laying down in between. I see people criticize the Triple H matches and also the HHH/HBK Hell in a Cell match for the same reasons, but does anyone criticize this match for it? I'm curious. So without a doubt this is an incredible spectacle and an awesome match (also the best out of the 3 I've mentioned previously), I just can't bring myself to call it the GOAT Mania match or things like that. There have been a couple more that have made a bigger lasting impression on me and ultimately a couple more that I'd rather sit down and watch because of length purposes and not making itself out to be so "epic" in a sense. But hey, it's still easily the 2009 MOTY.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Haven't seen these matches in years, so I decided to pop in disc 3 of _Shawn Michaels: My Journey_.
> 
> *WWE Championship - Fatal 4-Way
> *John Cena (c) vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels (_Backlash 2007_) - *****
> ...



I just watched the first two matches on your list not 2 days ago, my ratings were exactly the same as a matter of fact.

Yeah1993- figured that Psicosis match would probably be it. I just saw it for the first time a few weeks ago when Hayley posted it-it officially supplanted RVD/Jerry Lynn as my favorite match from the original ECW. I really need to watch it again and pay closer attention, I was just going crazy the first time I saw it because of how amazing everything was. Is this match and the Regal match from Nitro the best from Psicosis as well?


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I just watched the first two matches on your list not 2 days ago, my ratings were exactly the same as a matter of fact.


Yep. Watched both of them this year at some point, and I have a review of Survivor Series 2007 somewhere. I'm at ****1/4 on both. Great matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Michaels/Orton svs 07 is super, saw it in full a couple weeks ago, very very good


I just watched Bryan/Kane 3/4/14 :kobe6 so good, Bryan is growing on me ALOT


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Michaels/Orton svs 07 is super, saw it in full a couple weeks ago, very very good
> 
> 
> I just watched Bryan/Kane 3/4/14 :kobe6 so good, *Bryan is growing on me ALOT*


That statement is only like 4 years too late. 

Was that the Main Event match? Think I'll check that out sometime too.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker (_Wrestlemania 25_) - ***** 1/2*
> 
> I just can't bring myself to call it the GOAT Mania match or things like that. There have been a couple more that have made a bigger lasting impression on me and ultimately a couple more that I'd rather sit down and watch because of length purposes and not making itself out to be so "epic" in a sense. But hey, it's still easily the 2009 MOTY.


What are those matches?

And I agree. That WM25 match doesn't do it for me like it does for everyone else. Only watched it once, though. Felt extremely choreographed to me when I watched it.

I imagine that that's one I probably would have enjoyed more in real-time, though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> What are those matches?
> 
> And I agree. That WM25 match doesn't do it for me like it does for everyone else. Only watched it once, though. Felt extremely choreographed to me when I watched it.
> 
> I imagine that that's one I probably would have enjoyed more in real-time, though.


Mania matches I think are better? Well if we're talking on a purely ratings standpoint, right now I'd say Bret/Austin and the Mania XX 3-way. Their Mania 26 rematch will need another watch sometime too. There's several others I have rated at ****1/4 - ****1/2 as well that I'd rather sit down and watch. Examples being Hogan/Warrior, Cena/Michaels, Punk/Taker, etc. From a simple enjoyment standpoint.

I can't dispute your last sentence though. Watching these matches live when they first occur is like nothing else. When I saw Taker/Hunter from 27, I believe the first review I typed I wanted to instantly go the whole 5 stars, but ended up talking myself down to **** 3/4. Since then with a couple more viewings it;s in the *** 3/4 - **** range now.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I just watched the first two matches on your list not 2 days ago, my ratings were exactly the same as a matter of fact.
> 
> Yeah1993- figured that Psicosis match would probably be it. I just saw it for the first time a few weeks ago when Hayley posted it-it officially supplanted RVD/Jerry Lynn as my favorite match from the original ECW. I really need to watch it again and pay closer attention, I was just going crazy the first time I saw it because of how amazing everything was. Is this match and the Regal match from Nitro the best from Psicosis as well?


Nah, Psic was an amazing ass nut in Mexico and a huge highlight of some awesome multi-mans. I haven't seen his best match with Rey from AAA in years either but it used to be almost my favourite match ever. Unsure about how it holds up. 

Those are probably the best things he did in the US, though, + Rey at BATB 96.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I think I get a kick out of watching NXT because it reminds me so much of ROH on HDNet. That show was far from perfect, but I loved a lot of it and they produced a SHIT ton of quality stuff that no one ever brings up. This has such a similar feel with the arena, lighting, and entire setup. So let's watch some matches:

*Corey Graves vs. Adrian Neville (NXT 2/6/14) - ****
This match is so incredibly basic but it's done so well. Graves does several minutes of legwork and Neville sells it beautifully. For a guy who can rely on his offense to be so spotty and flashy, he can really sell a leg injury as I've seen him do it on more than one occasion. Graves needs to drop the skinny jeans though. Looks ridiculous. He had a sick backbreaker though.

*Sami Zayn vs. Corey Graves (NXT 3/6/14) - ****
Well, Graves' skinny jeans look a little less ridiculous in this one. Maybe it was the pattern change. Another good match here with Graves dominating on the mat. Hot finishing stretch and some nice false finishes. Regal said Graves has a "sterling" reputation for his submissions. Who else gets that!? 

Getting tired and lazy so I also watched Sheamus vs. Aiden English from 3/20 I believe. ** 1/2 for that. English didn't do a whole lot on offense but he's still learning.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Please watch both Shield/Sin Cara and Los Matadores as well as Wyatts/those same guys. Those matches were on Main Event episodes before Elimination Chamber. Fun.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

What'd you think of Batista/Taker HIAC?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

^ That is by far the most underrated Batista/Taker match, and it's just one step behind the Cyber Sunday match imo. Edge's return was a not-so-surprising surprise I still often watch time from time because of it's brilliant execution, and the match itself was typical HIAC fare at that time - chaotic, bloody and kind of awesome. At least to me.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Batista/Taker HIAC is the weakest match in the series. That being said, when the weakest match in a series is "pretty good", you're doing something right.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The weakest Batista/Taker match is BY FAR the Chairs match. If you mean only the 2007 series, I'd say the Steel Cage match (which is pretty good as well) beats HIAC in that too.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Always thought the SD and BL match were the bottom two in their series. The HIAC is like ****1/4 to me and the formers are more so ***1/2-3/4


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

ATF said:


> The weakest Batista/Taker match is BY FAR the Chairs match. If you mean only the 2007 series, I'd say the Steel Cage match (which is pretty good as well) beats HIAC in that too.


I wasn't counting the Chairs match, just the 2007 ones. Haven't seen the Chairs match either, and I don't care to.



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Always thought the SD and BL match were the bottom two in their series. The HIAC is like ****1/4 to me and the formers are more so ***1/2-3/4


Backlash is my personal favourite. Just a tonne of fun. ****1/4.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Next to the Mania match, Cyber Sunday is very nearly just as awesome. Those two are the best ones imo, with probably the Backlash one next, followed by the HIAC then the cage match.

I have only seen their 2007 series and havn't seen their 2008 SD matches yet.

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----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What was the date of the Nitro episode of the Hogan/Piper contract signing for Starrcade 1996?

EDIT: Actually I think it was at World War 3. 

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----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Batista/Taker series 

WM 23: ****3/4 
Backlash: ****1/4 
CS: ****1/4 
HIAC: ****
Chairs: *


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Batista/Taker series
> 
> WM 23: ****3/4
> Backlash: ****1/4
> ...


That one shouldn't even count. That series was amazing.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> Batista/Taker series
> 
> WM 23: ****3/4
> Backlash: ****1/4
> ...


I liked their Backlash bout more than their WM one. ****1/2 for the Backlash match and ****1/4 for the WM one. Apart from that I agree with you


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker/Batista:

WrestleMania 23 - ****1/2
Cyber Sunday 2007 - ****1/4
Backlash 2007 - ****1/4
Survivor Series 2007 - ****1/4
Smackdown 11/05/2007 - ***3/4
Smackdown 18/04/2008 - ***1/4
Smackdown 24/04/2008 - ***

Been a while since I've watched most of them though. Can't wait to see the PPV matches again for my 2007 PPV Rambles once I get that far haha. Also started doing Undertaker on SD 2008 project, so I'll have to get back to that at some point to re-watch their matches from there. And I have the cage match on one of those Best of SD sets from SilverVision so I can watch that whenever I want too :mark:.

Added some new content on my site today. Re-done my WWF 2000 Perfect PPV, so it matches my thoughts on certain matches after I did my 2000 PPV rambles. Written 2001 out as well, will post that next week probs, then I'll add 2002 and 2003 once I've finished posting the rambles on my site. Fuck me though, 2001 was HARD because I kept running into the old "dammit those guys are already in matches" problem :lmao.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'll give my try at a 2001 Perfect PPV (not counting WCW titles):

Light Heavyweight Title: X-Pac (c) vs. Tajiri (SummerSlam - ***1/4 - 2)
Hardcore Title: Rhyno (c) vs. Raven (Backlash - ***1/2 - 3)
European Title: Test (c) vs. Eddie Guerrero (WrestleMania - ***1/4 - 2)
Intercontinental Title: Triple H vs. Kane (Judgment Day - ***1/4 - 2)
High Profile Match: Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle (Backlash - ****1/4 - 6)
WWF Tag Team Titles: The Dudley Boyz (c) vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys (WrestleMania - ****1/2 - 7)
Women's Title: Chyna (c) vs. Lita (Judgment Day - ** - 0.5)
WWF Title: The Rock (c) vs. Steve Austin (WrestleMania - ***** - 9)

Cal Scale: 31.5 

EDIT: I know our ratings are different, but let's see if yours beats this


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Batista/Taker is one of those big series that I've not really seen. I've watched the WM match I think twice, and for some reason it never struck me as a great match. I think I went like **** on last watch, which was probably at least a year ago. All I've seen from the HIAC match is the finish. Seen the chairs match though :lmao

Edit: ATF, you should consider Edge/Test for the IC belt. I think it was Survivor Series, and it may have been a unification match. Love it though. I'd also put the tag main event from Backlash on there, but then Rock is left off. That is difficult.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/HBK WM25 is still the GOAT match for me. Only Mania match I'd possibly put above it is the Bret/Austin WM13 match, but Taker/HBK had absolutely everything I could want in a match. Great build, epic crowd, the perfect mix of in ring action, pacing, drama, psychology, and storytelling for my liking. I don't believe there's such a thing as a perfect match, but this is as close as it gets.

Taker/Batista series:

WM23- ****1/2 (MOTY 2007)
BL- ****1/4
Cage- ***3/4
CS- ****1/2
SVS- ****1/4
SD Titl match 08- ***1/2-***3/4 (need to rewatch, haven't seen since it first aired)
Chairs Match- **1/4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, for that no Rock issue, that would certainly open the doors for Rock/Jericho NM over the WCW Title, but problem - Powertrip/Brothers would also shut the doors on defending the WWF, IC and Tag Titles, so that's at least two potential big matches shut off the card 

Also, I thought Edge/Test was pretty good, but I liked Storm/Edge better. And if I weren't to have that there, Jericho/Regal WM would be my backup plan.

EDIT: I hadn't realized Storm/Edge wasn't even supposed to be there  And in the meantime, I remembered another match I'd have over Edge/Test, HHH/Kane from JD, and both men weren't in the card yet so there you go.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah my 01 card is better . IMO, anyway of course lol. Also HIGHER on the CAL SCALE 8*D.

Nothing wrong with excluding Rock either . He ain't on my 2000 show :lmao.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I want to bet yours has Austin/Angle and Taker/HHH in it. I just noticed I didn't even have Taker in my card :side:

Dammit, I just thought of a much better card while that


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Yeah my 01 card is better . IMO, anyway of course lol. Also HIGHER on the CAL SCALE 8*D.
> 
> Nothing wrong with excluding Rock either . He ain't on my 2000 show :lmao.


Who's with Benoit then?

Also, ATF you could put the H/Kane chain match on your card. That match :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> Who's with Benoit then?


Probably Jericho from Backlash.

A 2000 card without ROCK sucks. Although I guess it's all because of Foley/HHH from RR blocking him since he was in title matches all year. Sure as hell ain't because of the match quality involving him since nearly every match was awesome from HHH/Rock (BL & JD) to Rock/Benoit to Rock/Angle and the six man HIAC.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah Rock was excluded from 2000 because all his best matches were WWF title matches, and obviously I wanted the BEST one to be my main event, and that ain't a Rock match . I could probably re-work things and even have a higher CAL SCALE event but I like to work my cards around the best main event I can and then filling the gaps elsewhere.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I surely wouldn't put Rock/Angle amongst the other major Rock 00 matches (HHH stuff and Benoit in e.g.). It was alright, but nothing that spectacular. NWO 2001 was pretty good, though. Sort of.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Speaking of Rock's 2000, I honestly think the Rock/Benoit feud is among both men's best feuds. They've had six singles matches so far in my watch-through, and all six of them have been wonderful. Can't forget about all their tag team interactions. And then their segments which always end in beatdowns (mostly Benoit getting the best of Rock). Yeah, their feud ruled.

William Regal has debuted and as expected, the man has been golden. :lmao at him defining the word "hooligan" to Lawler during commentary. Raven's debut was nice too, but he was an ECW product, so lol at pushing him. :lmao at that Naked Mideon/William Regal match.

The one Rock match that I will never understand any love for is the Big Show one at No Way Out. There's something about No Way Out and The Rock that brings out the worst in him.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I forgot to mention yesterday that I saw that segment from RAW where Stephanie yelled at and insulted Kane so he got pissed and unveiled the old mask. Pretty awesome segment. Unsure how people wouldn't be excited about Bryan/Kane after that. Expecting a Last Man Standing match.

Sheamus vs. Batista tonight on SD. Kinda sounds interesting.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I feel we've seen Bryan/Kane too many times for it to be a compelling PPV main event caliber match. Sure, the mask adds to it, but they've fucked off between monster Kane and jobber Kane so many times within the last few years that it's hard to take him seriously.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Yeah Rock was excluded from 2000 because all his best matches were WWF title matches, and obviously *I wanted the BEST one to be my main event*, and that ain't a Rock match . I could probably re-work things and even have a higher CAL SCALE event but I like to work my cards around the best main event I can and then filling the gaps elsewhere.


Which means that it has to include Rock/Benoit. 



ATF said:


> I surely wouldn't put Rock/Angle amongst the other major Rock 00 matches (HHH stuff and Benoit in e.g.). It was alright, but nothing that spectacular. NWO 2001 was pretty good, though. Sort of.


Yeah, it's not as good as the rest but I damn sure liked it more than the NWO one. Thought that one is rather mediocre.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Speaking of Rock's 2000, I honestly think the Rock/Benoit feud is among both men's best feuds. They've had six singles matches so far in my watch-through, and all six of them have been wonderful. Can't forget about all their tag team interactions. And then their segments which always end in beatdowns (mostly Benoit getting the best of Rock). Yeah, their feud ruled.


The Rock/Benoit feud has been awesome just looking at their matches and the video package for Fully Loaded. Benoit showed more personality as a heel. He would've had much longer appeal as a main eventer if they hadn't made him a bland face who solely relies on his in-ring talents. But at the same time, it was hard for him to be a heel since he was so much fun to watch in the ring that you can't help but cheer.

I need to rush through the AE fast. Now at King of the Ring 97.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I feel we've seen Bryan/Kane too many times for it to be a compelling PPV main event caliber match. Sure, the mask adds to it, *but they've fucked off between monster Kane and jobber Kane so many times within the last few years that it's hard to take him seriously.*


Oh I agree with that, but Monster Kane will certainly make for a better build & match than Corporate Kane will.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed. It most definitely is better than the other option (aka jobber Kane). We all know Kane has ZERO chance of winning, so at least it's monster Kane to make Bryan look better.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Kane should kidnape Brie Bella


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Which means that it has to include Rock/Benoit.


Oh absolutely. If I forgot about HHH Vs Cactus, and HHH Vs Cactus, and HHH Vs Rock, and HHH Vs Rock... .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Srdjan99 said:


> Kane should kidnape Brie Bella


And never return her, and for the angle to be dropped and never mentioned again. Then re do it with all the other divas except AJ and Paige. KANE TO SAVE THE DIVAS DIVISION~!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Brie Bella is actually decent compared to, like, 95% of the current division. Only AJ, Paige, Emma and Natalya (Tamina in some form too) are worth it. Oh, and if she counts, Renee Young too for sure.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ Bellas and Summer Rae are better wrestlers than pretty much every diva currently besides Paige


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, Summer too. As a matter of fact, Summer is probably the best heel chick since... Mickie?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

For a "Perfect PPV" card for 2001, it would absolutely have to contain these matches:

Austin/Angle SS for the WWE Title
Jericho/Benoit Ladder Match for the IC Title
Hardys/Dudley's/Edge&Christian TLC match WM 17
Tajiri vs Xpac SS Cruiserweight/Light Heavyweight Title
Taker vs Triple H WM 17 
Raven/Kane/Big Show WM 17 for the Hardcore Title

Then I'd fill the rest out from there.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Michaels/Orton svs 07 is super, saw it in full a couple weeks ago, very very good
> 
> 
> I just watched Bryan/Kane 3/4/14 :kobe6 so good, Bryan is growing on me ALOT


It took me time to start loving him also, could not stand him when I saw him on the idies, then I saw more and more of his matches and now he one of my favorites :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I got into Bryan in ROH thanks to NIGEL. Man, I wish Nigel had signed with Bryan . Who knows where BOTH of them would be now.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I got into Bryan in ROH thanks to NIGEL. Man, I wish Nigel had signed with Bryan . Who knows where BOTH of them would be now.


So he willingly chose TNA? it wasn't a second option because WWE denied him or something.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> So he willingly chose TNA? it wasn't a second option because WWE denied him or something.



Didn't he fail the WWE physical because they found out he had Hepatitis? And instead of them waiting for him to get treatment (he had a form of Hepatitis that was curable, can't remember which) WWE just rescinded his contract? Or am I mixing Nigel up with Hannibal?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No, it was his second choice. He WAS going to sign with WWE until the doctor fucked him.

Basic jist of the whole thing:

Nigel tore both his arms at one point in ROH. Didn't get surgery, just let them heal up on their own. They were fine. WWE doctor told him he NEEDED surgery on one of them, and they wouldn't sign him then and there. So he contacted management to try and ask if they WOULD DEFINITELY sign him after he got it done. Nobody ever responded to him, so he went with TNA instead because if he had the surgery, it would have cost him a bunch of money AND kept him out of work for a few months with NO GUARANTEE that WWE would actually sign him afterwards.

Then in TNA he got Hep B, doctor said it would go away on it's own, it didn't after a while so he needed medication. He got cleared up, was ready to wrestle again and... got released.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Cena/Angle/HBK or JBL/Eddie/Booker/Taker?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Damn that is a shame 

Does anyone know what's going on with Steen or Roderick? or is that dead already.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Cena/Angle/HBK or JBL/Eddie/Booker/Taker?


Haven't seen Cena/Angle/HBK in years, but I doubt it could be worse than the 4 way, which SUCKS outside of Eddie/Undertaker interactions.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Cena/Angle/HBK or JBL/Eddie/Booker/Taker?



Cena/Angle/HBK from TT05'. That Armageddon 4-way would have been so much better if they had kept Booker to a minimum and had Eddie and Taker go at it a lot more. The triple threat from TT is the only match from the Cena/Angle feud in 2005 that I'll ever rewatch. It's not perfect or anything nor even all that great, but I prefer it to the Armageddon match. Strange too, because I'm not really a fan of any of the guys in the triple threat and I LOVE Eddie and Taker and enjoy JBL. You'd think that would automatically make Armagedon the preferred match, but it just never reaches the level you'd expect with those two involved.

I think my ratings on last watch were:

Angle/Cena/HBK: ***3/4
Booker/JBL/Eddie/Taker: **3/4


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The 3 way easily wins, the best match HBK/Angle would ever have together.

That Vengeance match from those 2 though fpalm


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Weird, I actually prefer the Cena/Angle/HBK but only by the slightest inch. Both are pretty good imo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Pardon me, I think Vengeance is legit awesome... bar the ending, which is just... ugh. BUT everything else about that match is sweet imho. DAT German on the announce table which must've hurt HBK's back badly I guess. And WM 21 is also really good. Now the Iron Man match on the other hand... PUKE.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

ATF said:


> Pardon me, I think Vengeance is legit awesome... bar the ending, which is just... ugh. BUT everything else about that match is sweet imho. DAT German on the announce table which must've hurt HBK's back badly I guess. And WM 21 is also really good. Now the Iron Man match on the other hand... PUKE.


To each's own man (Y)

I personally think it's a piece of crap, I used to hold it in high regards until this last watch where I was so bored.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

In Your House III

*Savio Vega vs. Waylon Mercy*
If you want to watch Dan Spivey dress up like Bray Wyatt and wrestle Savio Vega this is the match for you. The match itself was pretty basic. A control segment worked by Mercy followed by the comeback. There was nothing more or less to it. A standard affair.
**3/4*


*Sycho Sid vs. Henry Godwin*
Godwin came in nursing a back injury and I guess he did a decent enough job selling it. Other than that I can’t say this was very good. Sid is just the worst when it comes to controlling a match. Maybe he’s better as a face or something but I can’t stand watching him work a control segment. The pacing was slow but there were some good looking power moves at least. Not the worst thing ever. 
***



*The British Bulldog vs. Bam Bam Bigelow*
I really liked this. There wasn’t much of a story to it other than watching two big guys throw bombs at each other and do all sorts of cool power moves to each other at a great pace. It was just a really fun war to watch. I love when a random match like this ends up being really enjoyable. Bulldog was really impressive with how strong he was here as he was able to lifted Bigelow repeatedly and with ease. I’m not a British Bulldog expert but this seemed better than most of his singles matches with a non-family member that isn’t Shawn Michaels.
*****



*Dean Douglas w/Bob Backlund vs. Razor Ramon*
I didn’t like this at all. Douglas was the heel and he got his ass kicked for a really long time. When the match was over I think Ramon probably had more offense than Douglas. There’s only so much of an ass kicking that I want to see a heel get. Douglas eventually got in some offense and it was unfocused and uninspiring. The best part of the match was a run in by the 1-2-3 Kid and Ramon threw him out of the ring. It was just the coolest looking bumping that he took. Unfortunately after that bump there was a horrible looking roll-up to end the match. I hated the ending of this so much and the rest of it wasn’t all that better. 15 minutes that I just didn’t want to see
**¼ *



*Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte* 
Bret Hart’s prematch promo was just amazing. They are feuding because Lafitte stole his jacket. Bret Hart’s promo had this line, “Yeah it’s just a jacket. But it’s my jacket and it means a lot to me.” That really built up the hatred between the two.

Hart is always good and Lafitte was good enough to make this work. Bret Hart nearly kills himself to start the match when he over jumps Lafitte with a suicide dive. The match was never boring and was really intense for a match about a stolen jacket. Lafitte didn’t single out a body part or anything like that he just did plenty of hard hitting offense. Bret’s comeback started early and there was a good portion towards the end of the match where it was just a war. I enjoyed this a lot more than I was expecting and I think it’s because Lafitte, despite his absurd gimmick and ring gear, was a lot better than I was expecting.
****½ *



_All Titles on the Line:_
*Shawn Michaels and Big Daddy Cool Diesel vs. Yokozuna and The British Bulldog*
Bulldog was wrestling for Owen Hart who, according to wikipedia, was late because his wife was giving birth that day and he was at the hospital. I loved this. Shawn has great chemistry with both of his opponents, and Nash meshed pretty well with both of them as well. The first half of the match was just a series of really good exchanges between all the different guys in the match before Yokozuna finally got his hands on Shawn and was able to keep him grounded. Shawn makes a great face in peril and while he wasn’t in peril for all that long it was still entertaining to see them lead up to getting Nash back into the match. The ending was a little strange with Owen making an appearance and it sucked that he had to eat the pinfall after getting in no offense but it didn’t hurt the match too much. The pacing was great and there was never a dull moment. Every combination of Bulldog/Yokozuna vs. Shawn/Nash worked so the match was just a blast to watch. Bulldog again impressed me with how strong he is. I’m really looking forward to the singles match he has with Nash that’s on IYF IV. 
****¾* ​
There were 3 matches that were worth seeing and 2 of them I would say are ones that might even be worth going out of your way to see. There also some bad matches as well which really didn’t help matters. Like there were a few matches that I just really wanted to skip through.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tbh I only thought that Tag match was rather average. I don't know, it was certainly fun and deep, but it didn't click on me that much. On the other hand, I kinda disagree on you shitting on Razor/Douglas - sometimes faces beating up heels is just a great sight, and I thought that was rather entertaining. But to each his own, man 



William Murderface said:


> To each's own man (Y)
> 
> I personally think it's a piece of crap, I used to hold it in high regards until this last watch where I was so bored.


Yeah, I used to think that was boring too. Then I looked a little deeper and saw that it actually delievered quite the nice action there - vomit ending aside that is.

Tbh in terms of good stuff, this reeks from the same thing that made WM 21 so enjoyable for me: accidental limbwork-based story-PSYCHOLOGY, fuck. :side: Only this time around, instead of featuring a lot of that psychology, followed up by a bunch of spots in a finishing stretch, the whole match - BAR THE ENDING - brings together an ideal WM 21 match of said accidental limbwork + a decent finishing stretch + maybe a few big but sense-making spots. BAR THE ENDING. And it's fun too. But that's just my opinion


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching the Ultimate Warrior documentary from THE NETWORK. Good stuff so far, interesting to hear that Vince originally asked him for the HOF in 2010. Only half way into the thing but I'd recommend it to people. Definitely different to the Self Destruction doc :lmao.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Oh shit the doc is on there now?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> It took me time to start loving him also, could not stand him when I saw him on the idies, then I saw more and more of his matches and now he one of my favorites :lol


Yea the thing is I was respected him but never really cared, alway thought he was amazing in-ring but as you said he is one of my favorites now actually with Phil gone #2 behind Ziggles

I'd recommend everyone in here most of Bryan/Kane matches, awesome stuff


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

From the network:

*World Heavyweight Championship - Steel Cage Match*
The Undertaker (c) vs. Batista (_Smackdown 5/11/2007_) - **** 1/2*

This full episode is on the network and the Batista/Taker series has been talked about recently, so I said what the hey. Never seen this. One I thing I liked about it was the physicality. Both guys are hurt and putting it out all out there. Tons of big boots and clotheslines and all that good shit. The match seemingly got better and better the longer it went. Loved that little piece where Batista low blowed Taker so a couple minutes later Taker came back with one of his own.  Oh and Taker constantly going back to the leg, that was good. Now one I thing I absolutely HATED; all the commercial breaks. THREE of them. Completely ruined the flow of the contest and I feel like I only saw half the match. That's really the only thing to not like about this, but it's a bad thing. Had I seen the match _actually_ in full, I'm sure it might have touched 4* status.

The episode also has a solid opening tag match with Benoit & Hardy vs. Finlay & MVP. Gets plenty of time but the finish is completely average and sudden. Benoit beat MVP in the weirdest ways.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> From the network:
> 
> *World Heavyweight Championship - Steel Cage Match*
> The Undertaker (c) vs. Batista (_Smackdown 5/11/2007_) - **** 1/2*
> ...


Smackdown wasn't live so I don't think you missed much at all. Obviously I have no way of knowing this but I can't imagine you missed more than a minute on each commercial.

Also did they edit the ending to make it look like they actually hit the floor at the same time? 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

TaylorFitz said:


> Smackdown wasn't live so I don't think you missed much at all. Obviously I have no way of knowing this but I can't imagine you missed more than a minute on each commercial.
> 
> Also did they edit the ending to make it look like they actually hit the floor at the same time?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Well, I still didn't like it.  When you first watch it, it looks like Batista clearly hits first but on the replay they show them side by side from two different angles without the other guy in the shot and they edit it nicely to make it look like a real draw. It'll never be pulled off as well as Bret & Luger from the Rumble though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> Oh shit the doc is on there now?



Yea man it's about an hour long and it's really really good. Damn near made me tear up in the end seeing Vince and Hunter cry talking about how proud Warrior was of his daughters and then how Hunter had to be the one to tell Vince that Warrior had passed. I'm amazed how quickly they put this thing together. All of it appears to be done over a week or so with old footage from his wrestling days edited in.

The thing that's funny to me is, yes the Destruction DVD was pretty negative in regards to how Warrior was portrayed, but from what I can see, no outright lies were ever told. His promos were entirely nonsensical for the most part, he never became a good performer in the ring, he did in fact hold Vince up for $500,000 before SS 1991, and he did treat a lot of wrestlers backstage like crap. Nothing was said that I would consider libel or slander. I can understand why this documentary was so positive, as he was being Inducted into the HoF, but if you want the truth of who he is and what his career was about, it's actually somewhere in the middle between this most recent documentary and the Destruction doc.

The good thing is, you can really see that Warrior had become a pretty good guy by the time he was inducted. My heart really goes out to his wife and kids, I lost my dad when I was just a few years older than they are so I know how tough this must be on them. Here's hoping they make it through alright.

Now we just need to see about getting Savage and Vader inducted.

Just watched two classic Raw matches- Bret vs 1-2-3 Kid and Perfect vs Flair. To me, these are still the best singles matches to ever take place on Raw. They told such wonderful stories and really are perfect examples of what I love about wrestling. And Heenan, my god. Has anyone ever turned in a performance as great as he did on the commentary for Flair/Perfect? I can't think of a color guy GOATing to the level that Heenan GOATed in that match. His commentary is easily worth 1/4* added to the match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Nigel McGuinness AND Dolph Ziggler both went to Kent State University. Incredible talent situated inside a not-so-incredible school!

Gonna look into Michaels/Diesel vs. Yoko/Bulldog. Could be fun. Or very boring.

Bryan/Kane from Main Event is good. Man, they've actually had quite a lot of good bouts with each other. I remember another one on RAW this year that was really good. And then one on Smackdown in 2012. And Summerslam 2012. And another one in July of 2013. And the matches that also involved CM Punk. So yeah, I'm excited for their Extreme Rules PPV match.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

El Torito vs Hornswoggle from SD was.... something you guys need to watch. Gonna check out Sheamus/Batista now


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Hornswoggle/Torito was kinda fun.


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

Thanks to the WWE Network, I've had access to classic WCW Material and I've really been on a bit of a Sting binge lately. 

Just a few quick reviews of some Sting matches I've watched from recent PPV viewings. They are all matches with Flair & Vader, and honestly, that is appropriate since it was the Flair matches that put Sting on the map and the Vader matches that initially caught my attention to both Sting and WCW in general. 

The one Flair match I watched was the Great American Bash 1990 Match where Sting defeated Flair for the title. It was a huge match for Sting's career since it was the one where he won the title for the first time. Great atmosphere and I love the big moment at the end where Sting won. Unfortunately, this isn't the best worked match the two had together (their Clash of Champions matches come to mind as being much better) as I felt like I was just watching Sting no sell Flair the entire time. It was fun to watch, but it wasn't one of their more classic encounters, though it is made historic because of the ending. 

Now the Sting Vs. Vader matches are some of my personal favorites. They were just so flipping cool and they still hold up very well today as some of the most fun and exciting matches I have ever seen. I think what it is about the Sting Vs. Vader matches that work so well is that you got a little bit of everything. You had a superhero in Sting & a great over the top monster villain in Vader, so it had that David Vs. Goliath style with a colorful comic booky/superhero type of feel to it. It also had great action with Sting doing crazy moves to Vader and Vader being far more extensive in his moveset than you would expect, so you got plenty of great ahtleticism. These matches were everything great about Pro Wrestling. And it was also nice to have "Good Guy Vs. The Monster" type of matches where the good guy didn't always win. Hogan & Cena? Put them up against a big monster type and you KNOW the good guy is winning, but Sting actually lost to Vader most of the time so it was nice to go into these matches not knowing who was going to win. It was probably the first series of singles matches that I ever got hooked on. 

Sting Vs. Vader from The Great American Bash 1992 was the World Title match from the very first WCW show that I ever saw and DAMN. This match is just awesome. Everything that is great about the Vader/Sting matches is definitely here. 

Sting Vs. Vader from Superbrawl III in a Strap Match...GOOD GOD! This match blew me away! I always loved it but after this rewatch, I have to concede that I forgot just how awesome it was. This is probably the best strap match I have ever seen and boy is it brutal. It is the best match Sting & Vader had together in my opinion and one of those "All time personal favorites" that I hold dear. 

Sting Vs. Vader from Slamboree 1994 for the vacant International World Title blah blah blah. Remember when WCW actually had two world titles floating around? Yeah I hated it, but if memory serves me right, it led to a great Flair/Sting Unification Match. As for this match, it is Sting Vs. Vader and still great, though probably the weakest of the four matches I watched. Hey, Sting won this one though, and that is pretty sweet. 

Then we go Fall Brawl 1994, where we had the Triangle Match with Sting, Vader, & The Guardian Angel (Big Bossman's gimmick in WCW) to compete for number one cotendership. This wasn't a straight up Triple Threat match, but rather a two match series. A cointoss determined which two men would start (3 coins were flipped and odd man out got the bye). Anyways, it started with Vader & Bossman which was an OK big man match, but as expected, Sting and Vader went out there and tore shit up. If memory serves, this was their last match together, and if so, it was a hell of a way to go out. Vader was being set up for his series of matches with Hogan, which were mostly awful by the way (if anybody can explain the finish to their Uncensored 1995 match to me, I'd love to hear it). Anyways, the match had a rule structure where it was a 15 minute time limit, and once Sting Vs. Vader blew through that, it was 5 minute overtime, and once that was done, they went to sudden death where the first man to knock his opponent down would be the winner. Sounds a bit confusing, but it was awesome to see Sting & Vader take their action packed, hard hitting style into a marathon type of situation. It got more and more exciting as it went along, even at the sudden death portion where they were just slugging at each other to knock the other down. It was just exciting, dramatic, and awesome. Plain & simple. 

After watching these, I probably have to go ahead and say that my belief was reaffirmed. Sting is indeed one of the greatest babyfaces in all of wrestling (probably second only to Steamboat) and that series of matches he had with Vader has more than stood the test of time. I am going to be continuing my Sting binge by checking out more of his matches with Flair, his matches with Rick Rude, his Beach Blast match with Cactus Jack, his matches with Great Muta, and some of his Nitro matches (Bret Hart & DDP). I am going to have a lot of fun with this.


----------



## clinic79 (Dec 25, 2013)

Just finished watching *Survivor Series 2002* from DVD. I haven't reviewed any PPV here yet so this will be my first in Wrestling Forum.

*Six-Man Table Match*
Jeff Hardy, Bubba Ray Dudley & Spike Dudley vs 3-Minute Warning & Rico - *****

This was a good opener and you knew what you were going to get. With Dudleys, Jeff Hardy and tables there's always going to be carnage. As you might expect, Jeff Hardy took the biggest bumps and made some highlight reel moves. Other of 3-Minute Warning members earned "you fucked up!" chant by dropping Hardy when he tried to catch him. And this might be the best match of Rico's illustrious career.

*Cruiserweight Championship Match*
Jamie Noble(c) _with Nidia_ vs Billy Kidman - *****

I'm not a fan of Cruiserweight division. But this match surprised me. At the beginning of the match crowd was dead. The pace was solid during the whole match and timing was perfect. Crowd started to get behind these guys when the match moved on. In the end, Kidman finished Noble with nice Shooting Starpress and got nice pop by becoming the new champ. This match exceeded many peoples expectations, including mine.

*Women's Championship Hardcore Match*
Trish Stratus (c) vs Victoria - ***

This match didn't feature many wrestling moves. In the first half of the match Trish and Victoria were very creative. They used moves that you don't see every day. But near the of match, it started to fall into a disaster. Almost every move they made they botched. Here is the end of the match: Victoria takes a mirror to the ring. Trish accidentally steps over the mirror and it shatters. Victoria knocks Trish down and goes to take the mirror. She takes a look at the mirror but since it's shattered she can't use it anymore. Then Victoria takes a look under the ring and finds fire extinguisher. She tries to launch it but it didn't work out in the first attempt. Fortunately, it launched in her second attempt. Due the foam from fire extinguisher Trish is motionless and Victoria comes to finish the match. And what is the move she uses to finish Trish? A snap suplex.

*WWE Championship Match*
Brock Lesnar _with Paul Heyman_ (c) vs Big Show - **1/4*

This match was little bit over 4 minutes long. There's not much time to do anything. Crowd was strongly behind Lesnar. In the end, Lesnar executes picture perfect F-5 to Show. One referee is already knocked out and when the second referee runs down to make the three count Lesnars manager Paul Heyman knocks the ref out. This swerve was very predictable. Big Show capitalized and leaves MSG as new WWE Champion. This match featured only couple moves and it was solid four minute match.

*Triple-Threat Elimination Tag Team Championship Match*
Edge & Rey Mysterio (c) vs Los Guererros vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle - *****1/2*

Match of the night featured many great spots and fast paced wrestling. Kurt Angle got biggest pop coming into this match. All of the guys performed greatly. Only disappointment was that Angle and Benoit were first to be eliminated. Match slowed down little bit after that but got back to its track as it came closing down. Eventually, Eddie makes Rey submit and Los Guerreros wins the Tag Team Championship.

*Elimination Chamber World Heavyweight Championship Match*
Triple H (c) vs Kane vs Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels vs RVD vs Booker T - ******

Entertaining match to say at least. Jericho said in his book that there were some botches in this match but they weren't highly noticeable. RVD did 5-star Frogs Splash from the of the one hatch on Triple H and landed right on Hunters throat. After that Jericho took the charge and managed to carry the match to the end. Shawn and Hunter were the last two remaining in this match. Shawn kicked out of pedigree and after that finished the match with super kick. Shawn got huge ovation and won the last world championship of his career in that night. 

Nice PPV and I recommend to watch.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TripleG said:


> Thanks to the WWE Network, I've had access to classic WCW Material and I've really been on a bit of a Sting binge lately.
> 
> Just a few quick reviews of some Sting matches I've watched from recent PPV viewings. They are all matches with Flair & Vader, and honestly, that is appropriate since it was the Flair matches that put Sting on the map and the Vader matches that initially caught my attention to both Sting and WCW in general.
> 
> ...



Vader and Sting had ANOTHER great match at Starrcade 1992, you absolutely need to watch that match ASAP if your big on the Vader/Sting series, as I am. I like the Slamboree 1994 match a lot more than you it seems. I personally don't think Sting and Vader ever had a singles match that wasn't atleast very good, if not great.

Also, for an even better Vader match up, check the Vader vs Steamboat Human Cage Match from Saturday Night in 1993. It's on the History of the WHC set. Either this match or the Starrcade 1993 match with Flair is my favorite from Vader.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Big Show/Lesnar SS 2002 was good for how short it was imo. Probably like *** or something, nothing compared to their Stretcher match though, that is otherworldly, yum.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dammit 2002. Making a Perfect PPV for this is HARD. If I want a good WHC match I have to use up SIX guys at once... which kills off a number of great tag title matches. I could still have a great tag titles match BUT that then fucks up the IC title match, plus it doesn't leave much left for high profile matches to fill out the card due to titles being retired or merged and not worth having their own spot on the damn card. ARGH.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

You don't need a perfect PPV for 2002 when you already have SummerSlam. 

But trying to take the best for each:

WHC: HHH/HBK (Armageddon) - by default b/c others are tied up
WWE Title: Brock/Undertaker (NM)
IC Title: Eddie/RVD (BL)
World Tag Team: Probably a Bookdust match
WWE Tag Team: Benoit-Angle/Rey-Edge (NM)
Women's Title: Victoria/Trish (SVS)
Big Match #1: Hogan/Rock (WM)
Big Match #2: Flair/Jericho (SS) - couldn't think of anything else

---------------------

Just finished watching Sheamus/Batista from SD. Solid, physical match between the two. Would be interested to see what they can produce in a bigger PPV match. I was down on Big Dave at first but he's gotten in ring shape for the past month which has made his matches more enjoyable.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bah, hate having to settle for matches that are nowhere near as good as others. WWE Tag Title match has to be average and the WHC match has to be below average in order to get a good World Tag Team match and IC title match. Then any high profile matches have to be lowered too because every other fucker has been used up :lmao. Oh well. Think I've finalised my card. Hopefully 2003 is easier...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

what possible WHC match could you use for 2002? None are good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Elimination Chamber match . Best of the bunch by far at ****. But I can't use it because it fucks up multiple other matches on the card .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Well there's your first problem, you have that match hogging up your Booker T and Chris Jericho spots when you should be using it for Booker/Goldust v. Christian/Jericho from No Mercy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm fully aware that it fucks up the tag titles match, which is why I'm not using it . Which leaves me to use a shitty WHC match. Which sucks. But has to be done.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah I didn't read the second half of the sentence. :lmao :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wow, I'm that boring you stop reading half way through my sentences oh by the way Yeah is a little bitch hahahahaha.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

An average WWE Tag Title match in 2002 on PPV does not exist.  NM is a classic, Rebellion is lots of fun and SVS triple threat is great.

This perfect PPV card actually seems to be a lot of fun, too bad a lot of great stuff get removed all because everyone can only be used once. 2003 will have the obligatory shitty HHH WHC match that you must include so it certainly ain't without its faults.

I'll try 2004 since I know most of the matches by heart.

WHC: Benoit/HHH/HBK (WM)
WWE: Eddie/Brock (NWO)
IC: Orton/Foley (BL)
US: Cena/Show (WM)
Cruiserweight: Chavo/Rey (TGAB)
World Tag Team: La Resistance/Tajiri-Rhyno (Unforgiven)
WWE Tag Team: Fatal Four Way (WM)
Women's: Trish/Lita/Victoria/Gail (Bad Blood)
Titleless match #: Jericho/Christian (WM)
Titleless match #2: Taker/Heidenreich (SVS)

Tag title matches fucking it up. But top of the card is untouchable.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

oh yeah well you're ginger.





[only bringing this up to prevent spam] - what are everyone's thoughts on MITB 2010? Anyone have a review or anything?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only wwe tag title match worth a damn in 02 is SVS... but that uses anyone who could also be in an IC title match, so its unusable .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well I am STUMPED by 2003 Perfect PPV.

I literally CANNOT have a WWE tag title match. The best involve Eddie and Tajiri. Eddie is involved in EVERY US title match and I gotta have a US title match on the show. Tajiri is in all the CW matches on PPV I *think*. I can go with another tag title match which is almost as good BUT has Rey and Kidman in it... which kills any CW match from happening :lmao. ARRGGHHH.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao at Austin/Rikishi at No Mercy 2000. I don't remember this match being this fun. Like really fun. Austin trying to kill Rikishi :mark:. :lmao even more at HHH/Benoit. Both guys do some real nice offense on each other, but the long term selling of both guys were Kingston-esque. Like my goodness, do these guys not realize that injuries affect your OFFENSE as well as your defense? Why is Benoit kicking HHH with his injured leg? Why is HHH lifting Benoit up with his injured arm? I actually kinda liked the match, but man. The sad part is that this isn't even Benoit's worst display of selling in 2000. My goodness, the only wrestlers who have a good understanding of selling in 2000 are Rock and Jericho.

EDIT: ROFL at Vince McMahon botching the narration to Yokozuna's memorial video on the 10/23/2000 edition of RAW. We've seen all different kinds of botches, but how do you botch a pre-recorded memorial video?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Why is Benoit kicking HHH with his injured leg?


Probably because he's left footed and leg work is usually done on that foot. (which I assume is what HHH did here too)

.....

In need of something to watch but can't think of anything.  Wanted to finish KOTR 1997 but not in the mood now.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)




----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Probably because he's left footed and leg work is usually done on that foot. (which I assume is what HHH did here too)
> 
> .....
> 
> *In need of something to watch but can't think of anything.  Wanted to finish KOTR 1997 but not in the mood now.*


Watch Londrick stuff. All day long. A friend's advice right there.

Just for shits and bricks, I'm going to do a Perfect Card Of The 2000's Decade (there's something for you Cal):

US Title: Eddie Guerrero (c) vs. The Big Show (No Mercy 2003 - ***3/4 - 4)
WWE Tag Team Titles: Londrick (c) vs. The Hardys vs. MNM vs. William Regal & Dave Taylor (Armageddon 2006 - ****1/2 - 7)
Women's Title: Trish Stratus (c) vs. Mickie James (WrestleMania 22 - ***1/2 - 3)
Intercontinental Title vs. Mask: Chris Jericho (c) vs. Rey Mysterio (The Bash 2009 - ****1/2 - 7)
ECW Title: Jack Swagger (c) vs. Christian (Backlash 2009 - **** - 5)
World Heavyweight Title: Chris Benoit (c) vs. Randy Orton (SummerSlam 2004 - ****1/2 - 6)
WWE Title: Triple H (c) vs. Cactus Jack (Royal Rumble 2000 - ***** - 9)
High Profile Match: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (WrestleMania 25 - ***** - 9)

Cal Scale: *50*. DAMN.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

C2D- you literally created the exact card I would have for 2004. The exact one, every single match the same. Good work 

Hmmmm. Perfect PPV card for the years 2000-2009.....

WWE Title Match: Angle vs Austin SS 2001 *****
WHC Match: Triple H vs Batista HiaC Vengeance 2005 ****3/4
IC Title Match: Mick Foley vs Randy Orton Backlash 2004 *****
US Title Match: Eddie Guerrero vs Big Show No Mercy 2003 ****
ECW Title Match: William Regal vs Christian Breaking Point 2009 ****1/4
Tag Titles Match: Dudley's vs Hardys vs Edge & Christian Summerslam 2000 ****1/2
High Profile Match #1: HBK vs The Undertaker WM 25 *****
High Profile Match #2: Chris Benoit vs Finlay Judgement Day 2006 ****3/4

(Womens title can fuck off )

Can someone convert that to Cal scale? That's gotta be around 50.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

61 on the CAL SCALE .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> 61 on the CAL SCALE .



Mother of God! Hahaha you pretty much agree with most of those ratings, right? I don't see how someone can top that card. Can you imagine how dead the crowd would be by the time the last match came on? If they get dead now after having 2-3 roller coaster ride matches, imagine what having 8 of them In a row would do. I'm pretty sure they would have to start stretchering people out after the 5th or 6th match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm lower on 4 of them . And fuck knows if I'd use all of those matches. I'll find out once I finish 2009 rambles . As soon as I do 04, 05, 06, 07, 08 and 09 .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I'm lower on 4 of them . And fuck knows if I'd use all of those matches. I'll find out once I finish 2009 rambles . As soon as I do 04, 05, 06, 07, 08 and 09 .



Did you ever get around to reviewing Eddie/JBL JD04?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope :lmao. Still attempting to start the rest of the show.

EDIT: How strange, my sig is still showing a link to my JD 02 ramble, but when I go to edit my sig it's showing up as the WWF 2000 Perfect PPV... fucking shitty site lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Nope :lmao. Still attempting to start the rest of the show.



Can't say I blame you. Between 2004-2005 there are a lot of absolutely shit SD PPV's. There are atleast 2-3, maybe more, that literally Eddie's match is the only thing worth watching. As bad as SD was from 2004-2005, it would have been SO much worse without Eddie there. No wonder Vince wouldn't give him time off to rest.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Armageddon 2004 is an example of what a SD show would look without Eddie. God, the nightmares. People tend to shit harder on TGAB that year, but both Guerrero matches made me forgive the fillerfest... sort of.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just because, here's a Perfect Card for the 90's and 2010's so far:

90's:
WWE Tag Team Titles: Bam Bam Bigelow & Tatanka vs. The 123 Kid & Bob Holly (Royal Rumble 1995 - **** - 5)
European Title: Mideon (c) vs. D'Lo Brown (Fully Loaded 1999 - *1/4 - 0.5)
Hardcore Title: Al Snow (c) vs. The Big Bossman (SummerSlam 1999 - **1/4 - 1)
Women's Title: Alundra Blayze (c) vs. Bull Nakano (SummerSlam 1994 - *** - 2)
IC Title: Ken Shamrock (c) vs. Mankind (In Your House 25: Judgment Day - ***1/2 - 3) 
WWE Title: Ric Flair (c) vs. Randy Savage (WrestleMania 8 - ****1/4 - 6)
High Profile Match #1: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (In Your House 16: Badd Blood - ***** - 9)
High Profile Match #2: Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart (WrestleMania 13 - ***** - 9)

Cal Scale: *35.5*
_This was hard as fucking hell. And I could've done more had most of the great 90's match not featured the same guys over and over_ 

2010's so far:
US Title: Cesaro (c) vs. Justin Gabriel (Hell In A Cell 2012 - **3/4 - 1)
Divas Title: Kaitlyn (c) vs. AJ Lee (Payback 2013 - *** - 2)
IC Title: Dolph Ziggler (c) vs. Kaval (Survivor Series 2010 - ***1/2 - 3)
WWE Tag Team Titles: The Hart Dynasty (c) vs. JeriMiz (Over The Limit 2010 - ***1/2 - 3)
World Heavyweight Title: Randy Orton (c) vs. Christian (Over The Limit 2011 - ****1/4 - 6)
WWE Title: CM Punk (c) vs. Daniel Bryan (Over The Limit 2012 - ****1/2 - 7)
High Profile Match #1: The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family (Elimination Chamber 2014 - ****1/2 - 7)
High Profile Match #2: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (WrestleMania 26 - ***** - 9)
Cal Scale: *38*
_Only 4 and 1/4 years counted and still more impressive than the 90's_


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

lol @ best European title match being *1/4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Just because, here's a Perfect Card for the 90's and 2010's so far:
> 
> 90's:
> WWE Tag Team Titles: Bam Bam Bigelow & Tatanka vs. The 123 Kid & Bob Holly (Royal Rumble 1995 - **** - 5)
> ...


I think you could have done a lot better for 2010's. Why no Punk/Cena MitB for the WWE title? With Bryan/Sheamus 2/3 Falls for your WHC. Or if you use Punk/Bryan OTL, you should replace Shield/Wyatt's with Lesnar/Cena.Or you should do whatever you want


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Fuck, I didn't even notice Lesnar/Cena missing


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

So I finally got around to watching the *documentary portion of the McMahon DVD.*

Big Show came off as such a huge ass-kisser. JR, you could tell, was genuinely still pissed at Vince. He had the most negative tone to his comments, and was basically just like "yeah, Mr. McMahon _is_ Vince."

I'd just realized while watching this, that I'd never heard Kurt Angle speak outside of wrestling promos, so this was interesting to me. Had a totally different expectation of what he'd sound like/be like, and it's probably because of his wrestling character. Expected him to be kind of dweeby or a dumb jock. He was the total opposite, and he came across as the most real to me. Perceptive; no bullshit one way or another; just very "here's the truth of the matter how I see it." He came across as someone who's totally secure with himself, and could care less about saying the right thing, whatever that is.

It's a small thing, but I came away with thinking that he'd really be good for the wrestling business in a behind the scenes sense, if he got his personal life issues together. He doesn't strike me as a "yes man" at all, nor as someone who seems bitter or upset.

John Cena was a bit surprising, as I expected him to come off as a lot more corporate. He was more real than I'd imagine, but this was shot early in his career ('05/'06), so that may be why.

Steph's interesting. You can tell that she's fiercely loyal. To the extent that it's a bit worrisome for the future, if she's the same way with Triple H when he takes over. You can tell that she doesn't like any criticism of her father. I don't think that's really good for the business if she has the same attitude with H.

Shane, on the other hand, was the biggest revelation. I totally see now why he was the one who left the business. You can tell that he's the one with the biggest moral compass in the family. He's the one who _doesn't_ think that wrestling should rule everything, and he just seems the most "normal" of the bunch. 

I can see why people behind the scenes say that Shane was incredible easy to work with, and a great boss. I think that if he were the one who took over, he'd be the most humane boss of them all, and we might actually see changes that work in the wrestlers' favor. He just has a viewpoint that is more in line with how I think a normal, logical, person would look at situations.

Perhaps this is why I've always got the sense that Vince seems to prefer Steph. She thinks like him.

You can tell that Shane is still smarting from his dad's affairs, because he shows a lot of empathy for his mom when talking about her having to watch his dad make out with other women (and says that he didn't agree with it). It's kind of the unspoken elephant in the room, but we all know why it should be so uncomfortable beyond just acting.

There's an extra scene, where Steph just basically makes a spoken love letter to her father. You can tell she's a real daddy's girl. She's crying her eyes out when talking about how much he means to her. It's really sweet. She does see her dad through rose colored glasses, though, but I get it. It's just interesting that Shane seems a lot more nuanced.


Overall, the documentary was fine, but I was more caught up in the human aspect of analyzing the participants, lol. That was a lot more interesting and telling to me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Judgment Day 2004*

I cannot wait to get to the main event. EDDIE VS JBL :mark:. Just hope the rest of the card isn't too awful lol.


*Rey Mysterio & RVD Vs The Dudley Boys*

Awesome start to this match; Bubba screams at the ref because Rey isn't holding onto the tag rope, so while the ref is dealing with Rey... Devon shows up and nails RVD from behind while Bubba gets out of the ring and stands on the apron :lmao.

RVD does a pretty sweeeeeeet kick to Devon's head... but at the same time it was hilarious because it looked like RVD just fell to the floor and then his leg bounced off the mat :lmao.

More great heel tag work from those DAMN DUDLEYS as Bubba keeps attacking RVD while on the apron, and pulling the ropes down in order to gain an unfair advantage.

I swear RVD doesn't do ANYTHING except kick for the entire time he's in the match before Rey gets a hot tag, aside from a dive over the ropes about 2 minutes into the match :lmao.

:mark: Rey's turn to be FIP. He tries for the West Coast Pop but Bubba catches him in a powerbomb position, then throws him up and back so he lands throat first on the ropes :mark:.

Dudley's are totally ruling in this. They just BEAT DOWN whoever happens to be in the ring with them. Nothing fancy, just big clubbing blows. Bubba lands one hell of a fucking shot to Rey's ribs while setting him up for a suplex. He just winds back and decks Rey in the ribs with a right hand. Just for the fucking hell of it.

Can't believe I wasn't looking forward to this. I like Rey and I like the Dudley Boys, and at times RVD can be good too. I guess the whole "2004" Dudley Boys put me off a bit because when I was watching all this stuff at the time, the Dudleys were stale as FUCK to me. But this is an awesome tag match. Perfect example of how a tag match should be done.

RVD hot tag and... holy shit he does a clothesline!!! Followed by some kicks :lmao.

Lol, you KNOW the Wassup headbutt isn't going to happen when the referee doesn't even attempt to pretend there is something to distract him .

:mark: Shades of READY TO RUMBLE with RVD launching Rey up into Devon who is sat on the turnuckle ready for a hurricanrana. I love that move lol. And I love that movie!

619~! FIVE STAR FROG SPLASH~! RVD AND MYSTERIO WIN~!

Yeah this is kinda awesomes.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


:lmao Booker T gets interviewed and half of his promo is him turning AWAY FROM THE MICROPHONE so we can barely hear his shit :lmao.

:lmao at Angle having his own PORTABLE RAISING STAND :lmao. GM wheelchair Kurt was awesome. :lmao Angle says he hopes LA gets the biggest earthquake in history once he leaves. HE WANTS TO KILL THEM ALL :lmao. Now he wants to end Torrie Wilson's career.


*Torrie Wilson Vs Dawn Marie - If Torrie Loses She's Fired*

Hmmm... a career IS on the line in this match... and yet I'm still not watching :lmao.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


JBL backstage promo :mark:. 


*Scotty 2 Holly Vs Mordecai*

Mordecai :lmao. He was originally set to be a big opponent for Undertaker :lmao.

:lmao.

:lmao.

This is a decent enough squash. :lmao at Scotty hitting a superkick and nearly doing the worm. I'd have given this ***** is Scotty actually landed it :lmao.

RAZOR'S EDGE~!

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Chavo Classic with his pants down :lmao. Jacqueline shows up and brings Chavo Jr a gift... bra and panties! :lmao at Chavo Classic in the background playing around with them :lmao.


*Rico & Charlie Hass Vs Hardcore Holly & Billy Gunn - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

Rico & Charlie Hass were tag champs? :lmao

:lmao Harcore Holly & Billy Gunn are teaming here? Did they run out of actual tag teams? :lmao

:lmao at Billy and Bob (ha, Harcore has teamed with both GUNNS) arguing over who starts the match against Rico.

Did they ever do a Rico and Goldust tag or match?

Hass frustrates Holly by taking the match to the mat and owning him. :lmao at Rico slapping Hass' tits to tag in. Then he bums Holly who runs away and tags out.

:lmao Rico is hilarious. Slapping people on the arse, grabbing arses, slapping tities and tweaking nipples :lmao. Gunn tries to run and tag out but Holly dives off the apron to avoid it :lmao.

Seems that Billy Gunn isn't the ASS MAN that Rico was hoping :lmao.

Hass gets back in and now Holly and Gunn can mount some offence as they feel more comfortable dominating a guy wearing nothing but boots and super short shorts... while Rico is fully dressed .

Miss Jackie is great on the outside just bouncing around. Lucky Hass gets to hit that any time he wants. Unless she's tired. or has a headache. Or doesn't feel like it. Or is mad at him for something he should know about but doesn't and she refuses to tell him what it is...

"DON'T YOU HURT MY CHARLIE" that was from RICO and not Jackie :lmao.

"HERE COMES RICO EXPLODING ON BILLY GUNN" :lmao.

FAMEASSER TO RICO~!

GERMAN TO GUNN~!

ALABAMA SLAM COUNTERED BY A SUPERKICK TO THE FACE WHICH TURNS INTO A SUNSET FLIP FOR THE 3 COUNT~!

Cool finish. Fun match. Rico stuff was awesome :lmao. This show is turning out to not be quite as awful as I was expecting. So far...

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


THE UNDERTAKER~! AND PAUL BEARER~! JUST RANDOMLY STANDING BACKSTAGE WITH PURPLE LIGHTING AND SMOKE~!


*Jacqueline Vs Chavo Guerrero - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match, Chavo's arm is tied behind his back*

:lmao like I'm even gonna attempt this.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*John Cena Vs Rene Dupree - WWE United States Championship Match*

:lmao fuck this shit.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*The Undertaker Vs Booker T*

Man I still remember the episode of SD when Undertaker first appears to confront Booker T. Fans went fucking APESHIT :mark:. In fact I think I have it on disc somewhere. Might pop it in later just to watch that segment lol.

Shame Undertaker was stuck with Booker T after returning as the Dead Man at WM. Booker T sucks. If only Lesnar had stayed . Lesnar? Undertaker? THE STREAK ISN'T BROKEN DAMMIT .

:lmao at Booker T with a bag of dirt. Apparently it's to help him against The Undertaker. It'd be more useful for him to throw the dirt in Undertaker's eyes...

"It's often debated, of whether or not the Undertaker is dead or alive" :lmao are you fucking serious Cole? 6 months ago he was a fucking ******* biker. WE KNOW HE ISN'T REALLY DEAD :lmao.

Booker T shoves Undertaker... so Undertaker blasts him in the face with a right hand. Booker T no smart.

Undertaker dominates Booker early on, until Booker manages to smash Undertaker's throat down onto the ropes and follow up with a missile dropkick. And his control segment lasts about a minute before Undertaker is back in charge :lmao. Can't complain, I don't really buy Booker being in control of DEAD MAN Undertaker for long. You know, because Booker T sucks.

LAST RIDE~! BOOKER T ESCAPES~! THROWS THE DIRT INTO UNDERTAKER'S EYE~! :lmao I swear I did NOT remember Booker T doing that. But I totally said he should have at the start!!!

:lmao it's totally worthless though, Undertaker just gets PISSED.

KNEE FIRST INTO THE TURNBUCKLE~! Booker T can work the leg of Undertaker now, which might be more believable for him to control the match than punching Undertaker in the face like he tried earlier...

I know Paul Bearer wasn't in the best of health around this time after his surgery, but fuck me, he does NOTHING on the outside. In fact I forgot he was there until he stood next to Undertaker while he was on the outside recovering from being sent knee first into the steel steps.

Fucks sake Booker. Undertaker's KNEE is hurt... and you are locking in a FRONT FACE LOCK? Why are you so damn retarded?

AXE KICK~! Undertaker kicks out and sits up! Screw you and your shitty finisher!

CHOKESLAM~! :lmao Booker T jumps too high and nearly fucks up the move :lmao.

TOMBSTONE PILEDRIVER~! This is over.

Match is ok. Nothing special, but certainly watchable, and being BIASED like I am for Undertaker matches, I enjoyed it more than most people probably will .

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Eddie Guerrero Vs JBL - WWE Championship Match*

:mark: THIS is the match I've been waiting for. What a fucking build up to this one too. JBL goes from a beer drinking tag wrestler to who he actually is in real life, a rich bastard . He wants to succeed in wrestling just as he has in the stock market. He gets a title shot, then proceeds to mess with Eddie, and even his family, causing his mother to have a heart attack! Eddie is fucking PISSED and goes nuts, killing everyone he sees with a steel chair, and taking JBL he's going to kick the SHIT out of him. He said SHIT. He hit babyfaces, heels and referees with a chair. And we LOVED IT, because it's exactly what we'd expect someone to do in this situation. None of this smiley smiley Cena crap.

JBL cuts a promo before the match and says he just fired his maid because she stole from him, but he'll happily hire Eddie's MUM. What a cunt!

EDDIE chants before he even comes out :mark:. Love this entrance btw. He plays to the crowd like always, because he loves his fans and knows they helped him get to where he is, but as he gets closer to the ring, he keeps glancing over at JBL and you see him stop smiling for a moments before going back to slapping hands of fans and whatnot. And then he gets to the ring and doesn't take his eyes of JBL. He's fucking pissed and JBL is going to PAY tonight :mark:.

Bell rings and Eddie charges at JBL and beats the FUCK out of him. Or SHIT, to be more precise! No locking up, no feeling each other out, just pure VIOLENCE :mark:.

JBL bumps like crazy for Eddie. Going down from just one punch, despite the size difference which would put people off going down from one shot. He damn near kills himself going head first into the ring post and then diving over the announce table (nearly taking out the Spanish announcers too lol). Always great when a heel will go out of their way to really put over the babyface no matter what.

Man, JBL gets NOTHING in for the first 3 or 4 minutes. Awesome.

An Irish Whip reversal gives JBL a chance to recover and finally go on the attack. He gives it all back to Eddie, punching him in the face and even sending him over the Spanish Announce table!

Like the use of a headlock by JBL here. He keeps blasting Eddie and knocking him down, but the champ keeps bouncing back up, refusing to stay down, so JBL just grabs him in a headlock and powers him down to the mat to KEEP him down.

CROSSBODY OVER THE ROPES~! JBL CATCHES HIM~! FALL AWAY SLAM ON THE FLOOR~!

BACK BODY DROP~! EDDIE LANDS ON THE SPANISH ANNOUNCE TABLE~! TABLE DOESN'T BREAK~! But Eddie is STILL getting back up and trying to fight!!! NOTHING will stop him from avenging his family!!!

JBL does a nice job just trying to beat down and wear down Eddie, but man oh man Eddie's comebacks are a thing of beauty. MULTIPLE THUMBS TO THE EYE~!

THREE AMIGOS~! But JBL counters the third one.

Holy shit at that ref bump! That looked fucking AWESOME. Eddie fires up, does his VIVA LA RASA schtick, then turns and runs for the ropes and the moment he turns and starts moving he CRASHES into the referee and it looked like the most... organic ref bump EVER tbh.

And then it happens. THAT FUCKINGS CHAIR SHOT. Holy motherfucking SHIT. JBL hits Eddie full force, and Eddie is GUSHING BLOOD. FUCKING GUSHING BLOOD. Fucking SICK.

The blade job makes Vince McMahon look like the most cautious blader in the history of blading.

STEEL STEPS THE TO THE FACE~! JBL isn't giving Eddie a chance in hell.

JBL PUNCHING the open wound makes me :mark:. Simple shit that makes a match more awesome.

CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL~! The referee is still down though, meanwhile the fans are chanting for Eddie to get back into this thing. Another referee and...

EDDIE KICKED OUT!!!

Another Clothesline from Hell attempt is countered by a drop toe hold, and JBL takes out the second ref!

POWERBOMB~! The first ref is able to make a cover now, but EDDIE STILL KICKS OUT!!! 

NOTHING is going to stop Eddie! He's fighting for MORE than just the title!!!

Sleeper hold, and fuck me that's a brilliant move. All that blood loss PLUS a sleeper? Eddie could be FINISHED.

Oh man oh man oh FUCKING MAN. Eddie firing up, COVERED IN BLOOD and after the beating he's taken is fucking tremendous! :mark: that might be one of my favourite things ever in a match.

FALL AWAY SLAM COUNTERED INTO A DDT~!

FROG SPLASH~! But Eddie in the state he's in took far too long, and JBL moved. Man, the ring is just stained with BLOOD. In-fucking-sane.

JBL tries to take a page out of Eddie's book, bringing in a steel chair and the title belt. While the ref gets rid of the chair, he tries to use the title, but Eddie takes it from him! Then, in plain sight of the referee, Eddie DECKS JBL with the title, getting himself DQ'd. Then he mounts Bradshaw and unloads with rights and lefts until 3 referees drag him away! Eddie isn't done with JBL! The match might be over, but Eddie's revenge isn't!!!

CHAIR TO THE FACE~! Sweet justice for earlier in the match. ANOTHER SHOT WITH THE CHAIR~! FROG SPLASH~! The referees drag JBL out of the ring to SAVE HIM FROM EDDIE.

This. Is. Incredible. It's just wonderful in every way possible. The angle going into the match is great. Everything they do in the match is PERFECT for the feud. No fancy wrestling, just straight up FIGHTING, especially from Eddie. The blood adds more to this match than perhaps any other. Eddie fighting back from all the abuse and the sick blade job is amazing. One of the few matches to make great use of a DQ finish too. I don't think anything from 2004 I still need to watch is going to top this!!!

*Rating: ****3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 8*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 12*​


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> C2D- you literally created the exact card I would have for 2004. The exact one, every single match the same. Good work


Great minds think alike. 

Oh and you got Christian twice on that card 

_Perfect PPV 00-09:_

WWE Title: Angle/Austin - (★★★★½ - SS 01) 
WHC: HHH/Batista - (★★★★¾ - Vengeance 05)
IC: Orton/Foley - (★★★★★ - Backlash 04)
US: Eddie/Benoit - (★★★★ - Vengeance 03)
ECW: Swagger/Christian - (★★★¾ - Backlash 09)
Women's: Mickie/Trish - (★★★¼ - WM22)
Tag Titles: Londrick/MNM - (★★★¾ - Judgment Day 06)
High Profile Match #1: Taker/HBK - (★★★★★ - WM25)
HPM #2: Rock/Hogan - (★★★★ - WM18)

CAL SCALE: 53

We should try this for TV matches. It's a bit hard since I immediately think of Benoit for most of the top matches and he's only usable once.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I say for TV stuff we should go all the way and not restrict to decades, but rather to all f'n time.

Another great ramble btw Cal, now let's see how you handle Bad Blood 04 and THE DREADED 40 MINUTE HELL IN A CELL MATCH.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Seen so much praise for Liger/Pillman at Sueprbrawl 2 yet I only see it as a great contest and nothing else. Eaton/Arn vs the Steiners, that is a match I think deserves a whole world of praise. Windham/Dustin vs Austin/Zybysko is class, too. Yet to get into Rude/Steamboat though. Later in the day.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cal- awesome review man, you had me fooled though. I coulda swore you were gonna go all the way and give that match the 5-stars I think it deserves. What kept you from giving it the perfect score? Just curious. I like how you pointed out how every single move, hold, every single punch was done with purpose in that match. That's one of the craziest fights I've ever seen in wrestling. My favorite moments were, in no particular order:

-JBL locking the sleeper onto Eddie in the middle of the ring while blood pours down his face
-JBL immediately attacking the wound on Eddies head with vicious punches
-Eddie firing up for that last come back, perhaps my favorite moment in all of wrestling.
-Eddie getting his revenge on JBL after the match
-JBL delivering that heinous clothesline to Eddie while blood was pouring down his face. That's one of the sickest things Ive ever seen a heel do.

That's my MotY for 2004. Not even the great WM 20 Triple Threat, Cactus vs Orton, or NWO vs Brock tops it. Unreal. Just an unreal match. Safe to say, we will never, ever, see another match with that level of violence in the WWE again. Maybe that's for the best, but I'm glad we got that match. Showed a completely different side to Eddie AND JBL. Most people didn't realize Eddie could brawl like that, and that match cemented JBL as the most hated guy in the company at the time. Can't wait to see your review for the sequel they had at GAB. Not on the level of JD or anything, but still absolutely brilliant.




Choke2Death said:


> Great minds think alike.
> 
> 
> Oh and you got Christian twice on that card
> ...


Fuck your right. I'll just swap out the TLC I tag with Londrick/MNM then. My card was gonna be identical to yours as I had Benoit/Eddie from Vengeance, but I decided I needed Benoit/Finlay on my card even more soi just went with Eddie/Show, not a bad substitute at all.



Desecrated said:


> Seen so much praise for Liger/Pillman at Sueprbrawl 2 yet I only see it as a great contest and nothing else. Eaton/Arn vs the Steiners, that is a match I think deserves a whole world of praise. Windham/Dustin vs Austin/Zybysko is class, too. Yet to get into Rude/Steamboat though. Later in the day.


I just watched Pillman/Liger yesterday as a matter of fact. I think I would give it around ****1/2, so I absolutely love it. One of my favorite CW/LHW matches ever. What made you think it wasn't world class? Just curious.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't explain why I didn't give it the full *****, but when it came time to stick a rating down, ***** just didn't come to mind tbh. Probably the best non ***** match that I can think of though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You should have links to every ramble you've ever done, not just the ones posted on your site :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My site is my archive, and instead of posting everything at once I thought it best to post 1 a week so I actually have regular content going up . Not being able to do videos for the near future means I gotta keep written content coming lol. Besides, if you want to see any of my other rambles all you have to do is ask and I'll re-post in spoiler tags .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, okay, I would do just with the 2003 and 2004 so far ones yet, thank you sir


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I just watched Pillman/Liger yesterday as a matter of fact. I think I would give it around ****1/2, so I absolutely love it. One of my favorite CW/LHW matches ever. What made you think it wasn't world class? Just curious.


I disliked the "dual collision" in air. I know it's got that "both men were on the same page" idea behind it, but it followed with them gassed out. After a few bumps outside the ring? I couldn't get into that bit at all. That's actually about it, thought I'd have more to it. A weird quirk of mine is that time usually intensifies quality (as long as it is quality, not HBK/HHH level ) and it's a short match. Great match but other than that, can't feel it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Oh, okay, I would do just with the 2003 and 2004 so far ones yet, thank you sir


Your English is a little terrible here... are you asking for all my 03 and 04 rambles? Wanna make sure before posting 15 at once .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally got off my arse and continued my Brock project. Onto the start of April 03 atm, a SD 'champion vs champion' match with Matt Hardy.

 Lesnar arrives at the arena and walks past Punk and Mr.Kennedy, and signs a girl's breast. Amazing Brock is able to get back to normal only 11 days after nearly breaking his neck at Mania.

I do miss Tazz's 'Here comes the pain' quote when Brock appears.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Your English is a little terrible here... are you asking for all my 03 and 04 rambles? Wanna make sure before posting 15 at once .


No it's not, it's exactly what I said. Yes, I AM sure about 15 rambles at once 

If it makes your job easier, you could just PM me those. I'm just kinda curious :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Hitman said:


> Lesnar arrives at the arena and walks past Punk and Mr.Kennedy, and signs a girl's breast. Amazing Brock is able to get back to normal only 11 days after nearly breaking his neck at Mania.


That was the second video I EVER posted on Dailymotion, 5 years ago https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8xmjt_lesnar-meets-cm-punk-and-mr-kennedy_sport .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Spoiler: SummerSlam 2003












*SummerSlam 2003*

:lmao sign guy has a dart board sign with a picture of Vince's face in the middle .


*The Dudley Boys Vs La Resistance - World Tag Team Championship Match*

Those damn Frenchies have the WORLD tag titles, so the Dudley Boys need to bring them back to AMERICA where they belong. Apparently. LOL.

:lmao at DUPREE using a BEARHUG on BUBBA RAY. Spike Dudley might as well try the same thing on Viscera.

Wow this was uneventful as fuck. Rob Conway was dressed as a camera man and costs the Dudley Boys the match.

Terrible opener lol.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*The Undertaker Vs A-Train*

UNDERTAKER~!

Sable joining A-Train for this match! HAIRY GUYS GET ALL THE PUSSY~!

Undertaker's ribs have been fucked since Vengeance against Cena, and A-Train has been attacking them for weeks on Smackdown. Undertaker being one of the GOATs knows how to wrestle a match with an injury. Love something as basic as him getting A-Train into the corner but not following up with punches, instead backing off and going on the defence just in case the big man counters and traps HIM in the corner.

OLD SCHOOL~! A-Train is down!

Shot to the ribs by A-Train, and Undertaker is fucking PISSED. He runs towards the giant hairy beast who uses the Dead Man's own momentum against him, sending him over the ropes!

Now it's time for A-Train to really target those injured ribs.

I like how the commentators tell us that Sable is "with" A-Train because A-Train is helping out Vince McMahon. So basically, Vince is pimping out Sable. LOL. No wonder Lesnar left the company!!! 8*D

BIG BACK THROW~! No Tazz, it's called a BACK SUPLEX. I thought you were the former wrestler who is there to call the moves that Cole is clueless about (so like, all of them).

PUNCHES~! Undertaker is making a comeback with some huge rights to the face of A-Train! APRON LEG DROP~!

LAST RIDE~! A-Train throws Undertaker into the referee. DE-RAILER! Undertaker kicks out!!!

UNDERTAKER KILLS THE REFEREE.

BYCYCLE KICK! UNDERTAKER IS OUT!

Referee is down so... steel chair of course! Undertaker boots it back into A-Train's face! But the ref takes his time making a pin.

TOMBSTONE~! REVERSAL~! CHOKESLAM~! 3 COUNT!!! Not often we see a Chokeslam win a match lol, even in 2003!

Undertaker has won but he ain't done! Goes for a Last Ride and Sable starts rubbing his chest. Which causes Undertaker to grab her by the throat, and hold her while STEPHANIE FAP FAP returns to get her some of Sable. Did STEPHANIE FAP FAP have a second boob job btw? Because I don't remember them being THIS BIG in 2002 lol.

Good match. Undertaker rules as always, and A-Train is mostly a very underrated big man. He works the ribs well and they have a nice finishing stretch too.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Shane McMahon Vs Eric Bischoff*

I don't really understand this match/feud. It was basically KANE VS SHANE and somehow Bischoff ends up... there. LOL.

So, 2 non wrestlers having... a match. This isn't even a No DQ or anything either I don't think.

:lmao it is rather amusing watching Shane maul Bischoff. THIS IS FOR NEARLY PUTTING MY DADDY OUT OF BUSINESS YOU CUNT~!

THE COACH JUST TURNED HEEL! HE JUST DECKED SHANE WITH A CHAIR! OMG!

Bischoff makes the match No DQ and Falls Count Anywhere.

:lmao THE COACH JUST TURNED HEEL.

:lmao.

Seriously, of all the people to pick to help him, Bischoff went with THE COACH? :lmao

King and JR's mic get shut off and COACH calls the match in the ring while holding Shane for Bischoff. LOL. This is TERRIBLE.

Shane makes a comeback, then being 2 on 1 gets taken down again so Austin shows up to even the odds. But Austin can't attack anyone unless physically provoked. So Shane shoves COACH into Austin. And Austin kills him.

:lmao Shane and Austin REALLY kick the shit out of the poor guy. You know how when a couple of guys stomp on someone and it looks fake as shit... well not here :lmao. It's like they WANT to hurt him for real.

Shane slaps Austin with Bischoff's hand, and Austin stuns him. BUT BISCHOFF KICKS OUT!!! Awwww what a shame, that just means Shane has to kill him some more. Elbow table spot. BISCHOFF IS DEAD. SHANE WINS.

This match is... :lmao. It's terrible but in the most hilarious way possible. THEY TURNED THE COACH HEEL :lmao. And in the end it didn't even matter :lmao. Shane still wins :lmao.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Fuck me they are hyping up WRESTLEMANIA 20 already!


*Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Benoit Vs Rhyno Vs Tajiri - United States Championship Match*

Look at those participants. LOOK AT THAT FUCKING TALENT. FAP FAP FUCKING FAAAAAAAAAAAP.

:lmao Eddie turned on EVERYONE in this match at some point . Video showing him attacking them all on SD is GOAT. Levels his former best friend Benoit, then turns on his partner that night Rhyno, then is about to leave and figures "what the fuck" and decks his former partner Tajiri too :lmao.

But this isn't just about EDDIE VS THE WORLD, because Benoit and Rhyno have some issues too. Rhyno GORED Benoit at vengeance allowing Eddie to win the US title.

EDDIE CHANTS~! The beginning of Eddie being the most popular wrestler probably on the PLANET lol.

FUCK ME. Benoit just charges at Rhyno with a running knee and smashes it right into his ribs and keeps on going until he smashes into the corner lol. DON'T FUCK WITH BENOIT.

:mark: Benoit and Tajiri interactions. Did they have a singles match... ever? Or at least around this time period? *looks* Just 2 on Raw in 2005. DO WANT.

LASSO FROM EL PASO~! Rhyno comes in to break it up, but gets caught by Benoit and put in a Crossface! :lmao at Eddie's face as he realises that Rhyno could tap first and cost him the title!!! Awesome little sequence :mark:.

DOUBLE A SPINEBUSTER TO TAJIRI~! TAJIRI KICKS OUT~! :lmao Rhyno can be seen looking up and talking to himself. Probably saying "HOW DID THAT NOT WORK? FOR THE LOVE OF ARN HOW DID THAT NOT WORK?!?!".

GORE TO EDDIE! BUT EDDIE HAD THE US TITLE BELT WITH HIM AND IT PROTECTED THE CHAMP!!! Ha, awesome. 

Bugger me, THAT was a near fall. Headbutt to Rhyno while Tajiri is caught in a tree of woe, cover... then Tajiri manages to escape and flop over Benoit to break up the pin lol.

Rhyno is still out... FROG SPLASH~! EDDIE WINS! STILL THE CHAMP!

:mark: this rules in all kinds of ways. 4 super talented guys going at it. Exactly what you would expect.

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*


*Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle - WWE Championship Match*

:mark:

YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE MY FRIEND~!

So I've had this match at ***** for a LONG time. I last watched it around 3 years ago when I was putting together my top 100 WWF/E Matches list... and boy did it ever hold up. Which honestly surprised me a little, but it's awesome when matches hold up even when I wasn't sure it would. Can it hold its place as a ***** match this time around? I fucking hope so! :mark:

Backstory for those who don't remember/didn't watch at the time. Angle lost the WWE Title to Brock at WM. Angle went away for neck surgery. He returned as a babyface and he and Lesnar had a "competitive rivarly" type friendship. Triple threat at Vengeance with Big Show for the title, and Angle won it back. Vince McMahon gets involved, turns Brock heel and Brock claims that Angle stopped being his friend when he took away HIS WWE Title. So now Lesnar wants it back. Simples.

Early going sees some AMATEUR WRASSLING, with Brock trying to show Angle up, but Angle is a fecking GOLD MEDALIST and not even Brock can hang with him. So if mat wrestling ain't gonna work, he gotta us that POWER.

But even the POWER doesn't work too well as Angle uses his speed and keeps countering THE BEAST at every oppertunity, and Lesnar is fucked! Starts throwing shit around on the outside, then grabs the WWE Title and begins to leave with it, causing Angle to chase after him!

OVERHEAD BELLY TO BELLY :mark:. And the commentators ACTUALLY CALLED THE MOVE!!! Normally they call it a "throw" or simply a "belly to belly" and both are fucking wrong and dumb. MORONS.

PRESS SLAM OVER THE ROPES TO THE FLOOR~! Angle is dead or something.

OVERHEAD BELLY TO BELLY... AND LESNAR DOESN'T FALL DOWN AFTER DOING THE SUPLEX~! HOLY FUCK THAT ALWAYS LOOKS IMPRESSIVE AS HELL. :mark:

Man oh man, Angle running FULL SPEED into Lesnar and crashing into him was awesome, and made even more awesome when Lesnar barely fucking moved!!! Love how much it takes for Angle to FINALLY knock Lesnar down, only for Brock to give him an overhead belly to belly and fuck him up again.

ANGLE SLAM~! No, Lesnar reverses! 

F-5~! No, Angle reverses!!!

ANGLE SLAM~! LESNAR KICKS OUT!!!

Well, if the Angle Slam didn't work, then you gotta go for the ANKLE LOCK~! Lesnar holds on and manages to reverse it and send Angle head first into the referee!!!

:mark: Lesnar tries to hit a SPINEBUSTER on Angle, but Angle holds on to Lesnar's waist and locks in a figure four on his NECK! Lesnar starts to fade, and once he gets on the mat, Angle switches to an Ankle Lock!!! Nice to see him going back to the hold the moment he got the chance rather than just throwing out a bunch of different submissions for the hell of it.

LESNAR TAPS~! But the referee is down! 

STEEL CHAIR TO ANGLE~! VINCE MCMAHON JUST NAILED ANGLE WITH A STEEL CHAIR~!

ONE LEGGED F-5~! Awesome.

Angle kicks out, so Vince tells Lesnar to do it again.

COUNTER INTO THE ANKLE LOCK~! LESNAR GRABS THE ROPES 3 TIMES, BUT ANGLE DRAGS HIM BACK AND APPARENTLY IT DOESN'T BREAK THE HOLD LOL.

LESNAR TAPS OUT!!! LESNAR TAPS OUT!!! ANGLE RETAINS!!!

:mark:

So this still rules... BUT I don't think it's ***** any more . A little disappointing yes, but I still think it's fucking tremendous, just not THAT tremendous lol.

*Rating: ****1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 7*


*Kane Vs Rob Van Dam - No Holds Barred*

HOUSE ARREST DOES NOT PREVENT KANE FROM COMING TO WORK~!

What?

:lmao at the video package for this match. Mostly building Shane Vs Kane. Just like Shane Vs Bischoff match earlier :lmao.

Man, how fucking DARK AND EVIL was Kane when he first unmasked? Set JR on fire, put clamps on Shane's balls and electrocuted them, and in the video package here we see him kidnap RVD, tie him up, pour gasoline over him and light a fucking match!

:lmao at some of the spots in this match. Kane doing his over the rope bump... BEFORE RVD quite gets to him with a running crossbody . And RVD setting a ladder up in the ropes, but before he can use it manages to get Kane down and goes for Rolling Thunder... but when he runs the ropes the ladder has gone :lmao. The fuck did it go? Oh, the ref moved it. Because he decided that RVD didn't want it any more... despite getting it out and not having the chance to use it yet. LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

THIS HIDEOUS, SMELLY MONSTER KANE~! You tell him, JR!!!

:lmao at RVD going for that kick off the ropes, but doing it from the second rope and barely hitting Kane because he wasn't high enough. RVD WASN'T HIGH ENOUGH FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HIS LIFE :lmao.

What? The ladder ISN'T made of chocolate? WHY AM I ONLY BEING TOLD THIS NOW, JIM? WHY?

Way to go, RVD. You just dropkicked Kane into the crowd. A PSYCHOPATHIC MONSTER WHO SETS PEOPLE ON FIRE. Right into the crowd. YOU HEARTLESS BASTARD!!!

MORE RVD STUPIDITY~! Rolling Thunder to Kane using a chair. Except the chair is on TOP of Kane so it hurts RVD too. He does that shit far too often lol.

:lmao at JR not realising that Kane MOVED from the Van Terminator attempt.

TOMBSTONE ON THE STEEL STEPS~!

Thank fuck it's done with. What a sloppy, shitty, spotty MESS.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Triple H Vs Randy Orton Vs Goldberg Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Kevin Nash Vs Chris Jericho - World Heavyweight Championship Elimination Chamber Match*

Nash looks BADASS with his hair short and blonde/white lol. He lost a hair match to Jericho, as he needed to cut it for his upcoming part in the PUNISHER film (which is fucking awesome btw and hugely underrated. Get the extended version if you wanna check it out. Only the regular version was released outside of the US I think so I had to import it. Bluray versions anywhere are the regular version so fuck HD in this case)

Jericho and HBK to start things off!

Huge GOLDBERG chants, which confuse me because Ryback isn't in this match 8*D.

It was only 3 minutes between entrances in this one, right?

Orton is next out, and he's there to make sure HHH leaves with the belt!

:lmao Nash is next out and Orton BOTCHES GOING FACE FIRST INTO THE CHAMBER WALL :lmao. Seriously, Nash grabs his head, tries to throw him into the wall and Orton just falls down instead :lmao.

Everything before Nash came in was fine, nothing noteworthy as seen by the fact I wrote NOTHING lol, but fine nonetheless. However with BIG DADDY NASH in the match we can get someone coming in and crushing people, which is always cool to see in a match like this.

OMG NASH JUST ATTACKED SHAWN~!

SUPERKICK TO NASH~! Jericho falls into the cover and Nash is gone! LOLOLOL!!!

Next out is HHH! But before he can escape his pod, HBK superkicks him to hell! And it was pretty much just done because HHH is INJURED (tore his penis or something).

NASH gets up finally, and decides to Powerbomb everyone he sees! EVERYONE IS DOWN!

HBK tries to pin both Orton and Jericho, but they had too long to recover from the POWERBOMBS and nobody is eliminated. Gotta save some bodies for GOLDBERG after all!

Pretty fun punch spot with all 3 guys (HHH is still sleeping in his pod) just punching each other in the face in the middle of the ring.

GOLDBERG IS FREE~! EVERYONE GONNA FUCKING DIE NOW~!

Press Slam into a Spinebuster looks like it killed Orton. SPEAR just to make sure. Orton is DONE.

PRESS SLAM FROM INSIDE THE RING RIGHT INTO THE CHAIN WALL TO JERICHO~! Goldberg is mauling everyone :mark:.

SPEAR TO JERICHO THROUGH THE POD~!

That hurt Goldberg, allowing HBK to nail the elbow and the band begins to tune up and SPEAR~! JACKHAMMER~! HBK IS GONE~!

Poor Jericho, he's recovered enough from the POD SPEAR to get back in the ring, and he ends up taking another SPEAR~! JACKHAMMER~! JERICHO IS GONE~!

And then there was one. HHH is the last man standing, and Goldberg is gonna kill him :mark:.

Flair closing the pod door and holding it shut, protecting HHH is pretty sweet. Then Goldberg just fucking KICKS AND PUNCHES his way through the pod :mark:. HHH about to get raped in the pod!!!

Even HEEL LAWLER is talking about how HHH WAS a great champion, basically saying he's fucked and Goldberg is winning lol.

Goldberg sets up the SPEAR... and runs right into a fucking SLEDGEHAMMER SHOT!!! HHH pins him and retains the WHC .

Shocking finish to a SUPER FUCKING FUN match. I mean fuck me at the FUNNESS of this bad boy. Goldberg running through bitches in a confined space is just :mark:.

I do however have a problem with the finish. Goldberg was WHITE HOT at the time. HHH was INJURED. Goldberg would get the title a month later anyway. And yet they still decided to keep the belt with HHH. Didn't make that much sense to me. Surely Goldberg beating FIVE guys in the chamber would have been a better way to win the belt rather than JUST beating HHH one on one, right? Goldberg could have won here, then they could have giving HHH his rematch for the next PPV, with HHH claiming that Goldberg can't beat him one on one and without being inside the chamber or some shit, and stack the odds against the guy with EVOLUTION too and shit. Would have been fine. Instead HHH had to keep hold of the belt even though he was fucking INJURED and that kinda pisses me off tbh.

Oh well. Still uberfunawesome.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 17*​





Spoiler: Backlash 2003












*Backlash 2003*

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLDBERG. GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLDBER. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING.


*Team Angle Vs Los Guerreros - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

I saw someone say this was the WORST PPV of 2003 a couple of days ago. Wondering if I'll think the same, but this being the opener pretty much ensures ONE really good match on the show which could prevent it from being THE worst. We'll see. Besides, I might end up thinking this sucks . Chavo IS in the match after all.

:lmao at Team Angle walking around with a picture of Angle to place in their corner while Angle is out with a BROKEN FREAKIN NECK.

:lmao at Tazz literally saying that being smart won't help Hass in the ring AT ALL.

:lmao at Chavo ONLY getting chants because Eddie basically forces the crowd to chant for him . Then the crowd BOO when Eddie tags him in :lmao.

:lmao BORING chants for Chavo :lmao. Backlash 03 crowd might be my favouritist evaz!!!

Eddie senses that they are losing the fans so he comes in and smashes Shelton in the face a few times with a forearm. CHANT BORING TO THAT YOU FUCKS. 

Some nice LIE CHEAT AND STEAL stuff from Los Guerreros. Fans love it. Eddie rules.

Nice to see the referee doing the old stupid decisions crap FOR the babyfaces in the match. Eddie and Chavo don't make real tags, instead just clap their own hands behind the ref's back, and the ref allows it because the fans cheer and pretend like they did tag. More babyfaces need to cheat nowadays. Freshens things up and stops the whole BLACK AND WHITE crap between heels and faces. Give us some shades of grey. So long as it isn't 50 8*D.

Team Angle resort to stealing the Guerrero's CHEATING stuff :mark:. Eddie FIP :mark:. Good job it was Eddie doing it because I can't get behind Chavo. I end up cheering for the other team who are working him over .

Oh man Eddie gets SO FUCKING CLOSE on a number of occasions to getting a tag. I mean WOW. Those were some AWESOME cut offs. 

Then the ACTUAL tag is fucking awesome too. Looks more like a flap jack to Eddie, who just so happens to fly into Chavo :lmao.

Despite being fairly new, Team Angle did a pretty damn good job working over Eddie. A couple of moments where they'd try and sit in a hold but it seemed Eddie wasn't having any of it and kept them on the move lol.

POWERBOMB TO CHAVO. Awesome.

Chavo is utterly useless after the hot tag, so Eddie comes in TWICE illegally and hits some big moves on Hass for Chavo to just cover and get the win. Chavo fails at that :lmao. Then Chavo gets screwed and pinned. Team Angle wins.

Yeah this fucking rules. I gotta watch those SD matches between them that are (or one of them at least) even better. I always liked them but never got the "truly awesome MOTYC" feeling from them. But if any of them are legit better than this then... :mark:.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


Test backstage coming on to Torrie even though he's with Stacy. Calls her a tease. Forces himself on her. Then Sable shows up and... follows her? I'm not sure. LOL.


*Rikishi Vs Sean O'Haire*

ROWDY RODDY PIPER :mark:.

Remember when O'Haire was the next big thing? LOL. That lasted all of about a month . Which is a shame because I always liked him, and his character was interesting too.

Rikishi's mum is suffering from... AN ILLNESS. Way to be specific Cole. For all I know she could have the shits. 

Wasn't expecting much from this, and I ended up being somewhat surprised. Aside from O'Haire using a neck crank submission thingy that looked like shit, this had a ton of fun exchanges and unique spots. DOUBLE SUPERKICK. Both men are down!

O'Haire LAUNCHING Rikishi out of the corner onto his arse to avoid a stink face was awesome. Nice finisher from O'Haire too which looked impressive on a guy the size of the Kish.

PIPER IS BLEEDING~! He got decked with a coconut. REVENGE FOR SNUKA 20 YEARS LATER LOL.

Nothing special, but hell, I'm glad I didn't skip it and throw a big NO at it .

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Sable. Stacy. Fap. Sable is trying to create tension between Stacy and Torrie. Tells Stacy that Torrie kissed Test and stuff. All of this would somehow lead to Sable and Torrie having a sort of lesbian friendship. Yeah. Fap.

RVD and Kane. RVD is terrible, dude. Not cool. His WWE promos are so cheesy and shit. Kane doesn't help things either.


*Kane & RVD Vs The Dudley Boys - Special Referee Chief Morley - World Tag Team Championship Match*

WE MISS REGAL sign .

Both teams are faces, but Morley (formally Val Venis) hates RVD and Kane and wants the tag belts off them, and apparently he's fine with THOSE DAMN DUDLEYS as champs...

BUBBA. RAY. DUDLEY. Best version of mocking RVD's thumbs crap ever .

Love how RVD does all his spinny kicky fancy shit only for Bubba to constantly crash into his face with a clothesline :mark:. 

Match picks up a bit when Kane tags in and starts destroying people, then starts a little FIP segment but is too pick to keep down and tags RVD in.

And then the match kinda gets dull. I can't get behind RVD, and honestly the Dudley Boys ain't doing much to make their control segment that interesting either. HUGE difference between this and the SD tag titles match.

Very cold tag to Kane. Then RVD is back in seconds later like nothing happened.

EPIC neckbreaker from Devon to RVD from the ropes.

LOW BLOW TO KANE BY MORLEY. Then he accidentally levels Bubba with a clothesline. Devon kills him.

LANCE STORM. Takes out Devon, then gets a Bubba Bomb lol. 3-D to Morley. Fuck me this is a clusterfuck finish .

Chokeslam to Bubba, followed by a 5 Star, then a new referee shows up to count the 3. LOL.

Eh, this wasn't that good. Boring mostly, with a clusterfuck finish.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


FAP FIGHT! I MEAN CAT FIGHT. STACY AND TORRIE GOING AT IT. FAP.


*Jazz Vs Trish Stratus - WWE Women's Championship Match*

:lmao like I'm gonna sit through this.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


NWO REUNION~! And by that I mean HBK, Booker T and Kevin Nash :lmao. Oh shit, I forget what the Raw main event is on this show. 6 man tag.


*The Big Show Vs Rey Mysterio*

Oooooo this could be a TON of fun. TON. FUN. OF.

Rey is playing MIND GAMES with Show right from the start, running out of the ring and teasing getting back in, then when Show comes out after him, Mysterio gets back in the ring and dropkicks Show in the face :lmao. Show is PISSED OFF and kicks the steel steps.

And then Show finally gets his hands on Rey and the gaint is in control. Always love the spot where Show grabs a guy by the HEAD and lifts them up onto the apron :mark:. Was even better here when Rey went all the way up to the second rope instead of just the apron :mark:.

CHOP TO THE BACK~! Rey is in serious trouble. So what does he do? CHEAT!! Steel chair to the skull behind the referee's back!!! Senton off the ropes, but that still doesn't get the job done.

619 TO SHOW'S GUT! THEN TO HIS BUTT! THEN TO THE FACE!!! WEST COAST POP... NAH. Show catches him by the throat, Chokeslams him to fucking hell and gets the win.

Short but ever so sweeeeeeeet. Tons of fun. Aftermath with Show swinging Rey while on a fucking STRETCHER BOARD is incredible.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


STACY AND TORRIE FAP FAP are still fighting. Stacy gets pushed into something and then a box falls off the top onto her head and Torrie looks HORRIFIED :lmao. Not sure it was supposed to fall on her :lmao. Steiner shows up to help Stacy then Test shows up to scream at things.


*Brock Lesnar Vs John Cena - WWE Championship Match*

THIS IS JAIL BROCK, WE INMATES, AND YOU JUST DROPPED THE SOAP!

Damn, Cena beat EDDIE GUERRERO, UNDERTAKER AND BENOIT in the title tournament to get this match. Don't remember any of the matches lol.

Cena tries to gain the upper hand from the get go, but Lesnar just shrugs him off and MAULS HIM. :mark:

Brock almost looks like a HEEL for the first 5 or so minutes with the way he's beating the fuck out of Cena, shoving the title in his face and mocking him lol.

:lmao Brock goes BACK FIRST into the steel steps... and gets busted open above his eye :lmao. SUPER CENA CAN DO ANYTHING~!

Sadly, SUPER CENA can't do EVERYTHING. He can barely keep me interested as he works over Lesnar. Some stuff is ok, I like him really targeting the open wound of Lesnar, but as fun as that can be, he sucks the life out of stuff by applying a rest hold.

Lesnar's comeback is :mark: at least.

:lmao Cena botches a clothesline so bad it forces Tazz to stutter.

Cena tries to cheat a few times, but in the end gets an F-5 and this match gives us the result that their Extreme Rules match should have gotten. LESNAR WINS.

Match is decent at best. Lesnar is great, but fuck, Cena is dull as shit 90% of the time. He really brings the match down.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Shawn Michaels, Kevin Nash & Booker T Vs Triple H, Ric Flair & Chris Jericho*

NWO Vs Evolution + Jericho. LOL. 

I remember :mark: like FUCK back in 03 when Nash returned. BIG DADDY COOL was always a favourite of mine.

Over the years I've seen a bunch of big main event tag matches that throw in some of the big stars at the time, and man oh man have I LOVED them. Undertaker & Batista Vs Cena & HBK from No Way Out 07 is just tremendous for starters. And don't even get me started on some from WCW in 92. DANGEROUS ALLIANCE VS WCW. Oh god :mark:. So on PAPER this one looks like it could be a ton of fun. HBK, OLD MAN FLAIR, Jericho kinda. Then the shitty guys like HHH, Nash and Booker can keep their shit to a minimum by not being in the match too long and sticking to JUST the few things they can do half decently.

However, I watched this a few years ago expecting it to be fun and maybe matching up to some of those other big tags. Sadly I found that it sucked . Maybe I was missing something before. Maybe THIS is the watch where I love it. Maybe Lita will come and blow me.

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS? What did they do to Booker's theme music? WHY? Isn't it a fucking WWE OWNED THEME? Why the FUCK did they dub some really shitty generic version over it? Not that his theme is great to begin with but fuck me. This is just terrible.

HHH teases starting the match with Nash, but pussies out. So instead we get HBK Vs Jericho who are sort of continuing their WM XIX feud... but it never really goes anywhere like I thought it would. They have a pretty great match on Raw in like, JULY, but aside from that HBK moves on to a small feud with Flair, and Jericho... does something for a month or so then moves on to Nash once Nash gets done with HHH. Oh yeah, he faces GOLDBERG, right? SD in 03 was doing great... Raw was like they didn't know what the fuck they were doing for the most part.

Poor Flair. Tags in, misses an elbow and lets Booker T tag out :lmao.

SUPERKICK~!

PEDIGREE~!

Wow, seems kinda early to be throwing out finishers.

Oh well, allows HBK to be the one doing the FIP, as I was afraid it would be Booker T (yeah, I've seen the match before but I don't remember shit lol).

Oh god HHH and HBK brawling. STOP IT.

Huh, Nash got a hot tag in. I barely noticed. This has been DULL AS SHIT. Nothing to talk about. At all.

LIONSAULT TO HBK WHILE HE'S STUCK IN A FIGURE FOUR. Most interesting thing to happen since the 2 random finishers early into the match.

Sledgehammer shot to Nash. It's over. Thankfully.

Bad. Bad bad bad.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*The Rock Vs Goldberg*

Urgh. If this wasn't the main event I'd just move on to the next match.

:lmao at Rock getting caught up in the ropes when he tries to sell the POWAH of Goldberg by bouncing out of the ring.

About 3 minutes into the match and... ROCK BOTTOM BY GOLDBERG. Followed by... SPEAR! TO THE RING POST. And luckily Goldberg didn't go head first into it and knock himself out this time. Then again maybe if he did that they'd have stopped the match...

Rock applies some weird leg submission hold. Like a modified Sharpshooter, only it looks like shit 8*D.

SPEAR OUT OF NOWHERE. LOL. Nice hope spot tbh.

GOLBOR! Man, Coach is an A+ commentator...

Rock hits some finishers. Golbor kicks out. Absolutely NOTHING happens in between the finishers.

Spear. Entire minute of standing around waiting for Rock to stand back up. Spear. Jackhammer. Win.

Well, shockingly enough this blew...

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 5*​





Spoiler: Insurrextion 2003












*Insurrextion 2003*

Last UK only PPV. No surprise really because they usually always sucked. We would eventually get TV tapings over here so it's all good.


*Trish Stratus Vs Jazz - WWE Women's Championship Match*

First match and I'm already going NO. Good start!

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Christian Vs Booker T - WWE Intercontinental Championship Match*

Oh god. I really wanna skip this match because I remember being bored to fucking tears back in 03 when this seemingly never ending feud was going on. I swear my memory of these two is of them having about 10 fucking matches in a row :lmao. Likely not the case, but that's how it felt. I was not, and still aren't, a fan of Booker T. However, I DO love Christian. I wasn't fond of him back then though, it took his WM match with Jericho for me to jump on the "bandwagon". So I'll give this a watch to see if Christian was good back in 03 too. Maybe he can pull something half decent out of the useless Booker T.

Fucks sake, that terrible Booker T theme dub again.

:lmao starting writing this on Jan 17th 2014. It's now March 3rd 2014 and I'm only just getting back to the show. The thought of sitting through a Booker T match killed me for 2 months :lmao.

:lmao I just looked at the first match to remind myself what happened... and I didn't even watch it :lmao. Taken me 2 months to even begin watching ONE match :lmao.

Booker slams Christian around early on, then Christian uhhh... somehow gets in control and I genuinely don't remember how and fuck going back and watching it again lol. Yey sleeper hold... exciting...

Ha, Booker crotched himself on the ropes. Now maybe Christian can get some good shizzle in and... rest hold. Fucks sake. 09-current Christian would probably disown this Christian.

Fuck me this match is basically just Booker T dominating Christian, Christian getting about 2 rest holds in and then MOVES until Christian cheats to win. It wasn't horrible to watch because at least they were always doing something... but it wasn't good.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Austin books Teddy in a 6 man tag. Kane randomly walks up from behind and uhhhh... they stare at each other and Austin asks if he has a problem with him.


*Kane & RVD Vs L Resistance - World Tag Team Championship Match*

Oh, so that's why the Kane/Austin staredown happened. Austin tried to motivate Kane into being a monster again on Raw, but it didn't work so he Stunned him lol.

"These two guys look like they dressed in Elton John's closet" :lmao JR rules.

"We hate Frenchies" chant :lmao. AWESOME.

This match was basic as basic gets. RVD shows up the young uns early on, then they get the advantage. Control for a while doing absolutely nothing noteworthy, then a hot tag to Kane and the finish.

*Rating: *1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Al Snow is a backstage interviewer apparently. The fuck? Goldust :mark:. :lmao it's his crazy spaz days. Awesome.


*Rico Vs Goldust*

:lmao I'm actually looking forward to this match. GOLDUST :mark:.

"You Screwed Bret" for about 4 fans :lmao poor Earl.

Some nice kicks by Rico! Loved the spot where he smacks Goldust in the back of the head and Goldust falls against the ropes, but comes flying back with a LARIAT :mark:.

:lmao slap exchanges :lmao.

Rico is an odd one here. No, not his gimmick lol. He shows signs of being a really good worker... then seconds later he can look more lost than the passengers of Oceanic 815. Makes for an odd match lol.

:lmao JR loves Pussy Galore.

Goldust sets up for the... shit, I can't remember the damn name of it lol. SHATTERED DREAMS. There we go. The ref gets in the way so Goldust just casually puts his arm around him and walks him to the other side of the ring :lmao.

Quick powerslam from Goldie gets the win!!!

This was fun. Had some ups and downs but I liked it overall. Might end up being MOTN :lmao.

*Rating: **1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


HIGHLIGHT REEL TIME :mark:. I see they couldn't afford to ship over his set :lmao. Just a small bit of red material on the mat and 2 shitty stools :lmao. Ha, shitty stools.

Jericho berates Newcastle . Bischoff is his guest on the show. God I miss Bischoff's theme song. Was awesome. At least I own that Anthology CD set with it on :mark:.

Let's sum up this segment up to the point Austin shows up:

Tossers

Football

Fish & Chips

Bad Teeth

Mad Cow Disease

Gotta love (aka bored to absolute death of) those generic English references lol. Damn fat stupid yanks can't come up with anything new :side: .

:lmao Austin claims they are ruining a perfectly good PPV. Ummmm, fairly certain this segment is the highlight of the night lol. All 3 guys go back and forth with each other and involve the crowd and all demonstrate some great mic work. Me likely.


*The Dudley Boys Vs Christopher Nowenski, Rodney Mack & Teddy Long*

BACK THE MACK~!

:lmao Teddy looks like he's about to cry stood on the apron :lmao.

Oh fuck me D-von and Mack going back and forth with quick pin exchanges to start and fuck me it looks AWFUL. Sloppy execution of basic fucking roll ups and they even look like they are half arsing kick outs :lmao.

:lmao Nowenski gets tagged in and D-Von continues to be awful with a DREADFUL small package. Yes, D-Von's small package is dreadful 8*D.

TEDDY LONG VS SPIKE DUDLEY :mark:. Battle of the skinny arms!!!

Boring stuff, hot tag and The Dudley's start dominating and attempt to bring out the tables. Spike ends up alone with Teddy and wins. Yawnathon.

Nowenski goes through a table after the match to make the fans happy as per usual.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Test Vs Scott Steiner - Special Guest Referee Val Venis*

:lmao oh god no.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Triple H Vs Kevin Nash - World Heavyweight Championship Street Fight*

:lmao they just show the video package for BAD BLOOD rather than making one for Insurrextion like they normally would. So the video is hyping up a HIAC match but we only get a street fight .

HBShizzle at ringside with Nash. Flair with HHH.

:lmao 2 minutes into this match and FLAIR is bleeding. Yes. Flair. The Manager :lmao. HHH and Nash are having a shitty brawl on one side and HBK/Flair are taking all the attention away from them :lmao.

LOL, referees try to break up HBK/Flair, so Nash just shoves them all out of the way and lets them go at it again, but they end up buggering off backstage and we are stuck with just HHH and Nash .

:mark: HHH and Nash are at the top of the ramp. Now if only they could fuck off backstage too... .

HHH gets flashbacks of JD (I think?) as Nash attempts to put him through the announce table, and manages to escape without that happening again. GOD FORBID SOMETHING EXCITING HAPPENS IN THIS MATCH HUH HHH?

Oh hey, look over there, it's HHH clearly blading! 

:lmao my version of the show just died on me :lmao. I SHOULD take it as a sign, but eh, I've come this far I might as well finish it. Better be on the Youtube or something...

Ok found it on Dailymotion. Yey...

Ref bump in a street fight, is there ANY FUCKING POINT lol?

Flair! Chair! Boot to his face!

HHH decks Nash in the head with the chair. Another ref but Nash kicks out. Urgh, this is still going lol.

Double team to Nash until HBK shows up once again. SUPERKICK TO FLAIR~!

PEDIGREE TO HBK~!

JACKKNIFE TO HHH~! But Earl is dead and the other ref got taken out by HHH so Nash just covers HHH until MINI FLAIR shows up and... gets attacks by BIG FLAIR .

Nash and Flair go at it allowing HHH to recover and deck Nash with the Sledgehammer. Earl finally wakes up and thank fuck this is done.

Best parts of this match involved 2 people who weren't even in the damn thing :lmao.

What a terrible "PPV".

*Rating: *1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*



*Overall CAL SCALE - -0.5*​





Spoiler: Judgment Day 2003












*Judgment Day 2003*

ARE YOU READY TO ACCEPT YOUR FATE?

And our fate is apparently having the PPV open with... and in ring segment. Because they don't have enough time on Raw and SD every week to talk...

So Austin comes out and tells us he's not gonna take up much time because this show isn't about him, it's about the matches. Yet he took the time to come out to the ring to tell us... he's watching the show in a skybox. I see why that was needed...


*John Cena & The FBI Vs Chris Benoit, Rhyno & Spanky*

:lmao Cena on the first match of the night. The fuck was the last time we saw that on a PPV? Liked his promo though, plenty of MAFIA references.

:lmao Cena getting beat up by Spanky. I miss the FBI, wish they'd done more with them. A full blown MAFIA group in wrestling should be the most awesome thing ever, but they always end up turning them into a joke (WCW did it, then WWE did it). Remember their WCW theme? A knock off of the Godfather theme, and it was awesome :mark:. Also liked the FBI's WWE theme... but not the one from this event. Not sure when they got it but it was awesome.

Oh man, Palumbo with a big ass cigar in his mouth while beating down Spanky early on is :mark:.

HOT TAG TO BENOIT~! Benoit fucking murdering bitches. Uhhhh, poor phrasing . GORE! GORE! GORE TO NUNZIO (who isn't in the match)!!!

Match has quickly turned into a crazy all out MAFIA WAR.

KISS OF DEATH TO SPANKY, and he gets pinned while Benoit is busy applying the Crossface to Cena and Rhyno is... laying around or something.

Damn, this was SHORT, but awesomely fun. Spanky bleeding below the eye added to it too right at the end.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Austin in his skybox, Bischoff shows up and wonders what's going on. The skybox is for both of them. So they decide to watch the show together.


*Test & Scott Steiner Vs La Resistance*

:lmao no chance in fucking HELL.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


Gegory Helms and Mr America backstage accusing each other of being someone else. Nah, I don't buy it 8*D.

EDDIE GUERRERO :mark:. Revealing his new tag partner while Chavo is... I don't care, Chavo ain't around and that's awesome. Even more awesome that TAJIRI is his new partner :mark:.


*Team Angle Vs Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri - WWE Tag Team Championship Ladder match*

Chavo apparently tore his bicept during the tour of England. Hmmmm... I was at a show during that very tour... YOU CAN'T PROVE ANYTHING :side:.

Sweet jebus Eddie nearly kills himself running into a ladder right at the start of the match lol! And the ladder falls down and almost levels a fan!!!

THE FUCK WAS THAT? :lmao Not really that funny, Tajiri nearly killed himself with a botched... something over the ropes, then Eddie goes for a plancha and... uhhh... Shelton just kinda ignores him and Eddie looks hurt too.

:mark: Ladder pointed at Charlie's balls... Eddie and Tajiri dropkick one side of the ladder each. SQUASH~!

Hi-Lo to Hass who is in a ladder sandwhich. Mmmmmm... ladder sandwhich.

POWER SLAM INTO THE LADDER. Eddie looks like he's dead.

HOLY FUCK :mark:. Team Angle doing their double team move using ladders :mark:. Did they name the move? Because I can't be fucked describing it lol.

TAJIRI KICKS :mark:.

Oh man that monkey flip spot :lmao. Awesome.

:lmao Shelton is basically feeling up Eddie's ass while trying to prevent him from climbing the ladder. Perve. Tajiri shoots his green mist in his eyes as punishment .

NEW TAG CHAMPS!!! EDDIE AND TAJIRI WIN!!!

This is a fuck load of fun. I understand why it's kind of a forgotten ladder match that never really gets brought up though. It's fun but nothing special. Only really one unique spot and some of the match is all over the place but that could work for the match with the story being that Team Angle are PURE WRASSLERS and not sure how to have a ladder match.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


More Austin and Bischoff stuff. Austin seems to be making Eric eat crappy food and drink beer.

Terri's tits are interviewing Jericho. PIPER~! They mock each other. Ha. Fun stuff tbh.


*Chris Jericho Vs Christian Vs Booker T Vs Val Venis Vs Goldust Vs Lance Storm Vs RVD Vs Kane Vs Test - Intercontinental Championship Battle Royal*

Pat Patterson coming out to Mae Young's theme song :lmao. He gets to present the winner with the belt.

VAL VENIS RETURN :mark:. He got fired by Bischoff after being Chief Morley for a while. Austin hired him back as Val.

:lmao at terrible Booker T entrance dub. As if his normal one wasn't bad enough. So this match features all former IC champs... except for Booker T.

Storm goes first, followed by Kane after everyone gangs up on him. Kane doesn't give a fuck and comes back in anyway, destroying everyone just for the hell of it.

Test, Val and RVD all get chokeslammed and the remaining superstars eliminate them with ease! Final four are Booker T & Goldust and Christian & Jericho :mark:. Mini tag match here!

DOUBLE SHATTERED DREAMS~!

SPINAROONIE~! Goldust tries to eliminate Booker right after, but gets it turned around on him . I want Goldust to be champ .

Normally when this sort of thing happens (2 heels working over a babyface) in multiman matches, it can get real fucking dull. Here it doesn't, which is like, yey for me. Christian and Jericho have great chemistry together which helps.

:lmao Christian shoves Jericho over the ropes during a Lionsault attempt. Awesome elimination!!!

Great little finishing stretch to this one. The ONE referee watching over the battle royal ( :lmao ) gets knocked out, and Christian gets eliminated! Booker's music plays, Patterson goes to present the title to him, but Christian decks him! Lays out Booker, throws him over the ropes while the ref recovers and CHRISTIAN wins!!! Ha! Take THAT, Booker T!!!

Fun match. They got rid of the bulk of people and left us with a tag situation, and from there it was really good. Christian winning over Booker makes me happy too .

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


HALF NAKED TORRIE FAP FAP AND SABLE FAP FAP. OIL~!


*Torrie Wilson Vs Sable - Bikini Contest*

FAP. TIMES INFINITY.

A million stars. Kinda.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Mr America Vs Roddy Piper*

:lmao absolutely fucking NO.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Triple H Vs Kevin Nash - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Yey HBK and Flair at ringside just like Insurrextion. Hopefully they brawl too so this doesn't suck too bad .

Dammit, they DO brawl, but are sent right to the back . So we are left with HHH and Nash.

BIG BOOT. ELBOW. BACK BODY DROP. SIDE SLAM. KNEE TO THE GUT. That's Nash's shit out of the way...

Terrible pu... wait, what? HHH is actually... hitting decent punches. The fuck happened to him? And what the FUCK is this? Nash is actually PUNCHING instead of elbowing!!!

:lmao at Hebner dragging NASH off of HHH with his hair. SUPER HEBNER!!!

:lmao so much for super Hebner, he just got mauled by HHH.

Nash no sells a punch, so HHH kicks him in the balls :lmao.

Pedigree. Continue brawling. Sledgehammer to Earl to get himself DQ'd.

Powerbomb.

Powerbomb through the announce table.

Urgh.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Bischoff throws up.


*Trish Stratus Vs Jacqueline Vs Victoria Vs Jazz - Women's Championship*

Ha.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show - WWE Championship Stretcher Match*

:mark: can't wait to watch this one again!!!

17 years since the last stretcher match in the WWE. Why? Because the first one was so fucking awful :lmao.

Lesnar wasting NO FUCKING TIME here, swinging the stretcher with all his power right onto the back of Show. Despite the fact the stretcher isn't made out of the most solid material, that just HAS to hurt.

Speaking of hurting... SHOW swinging that stretcher has to hurt even more. Ouch!!!

CHOKESLAM!!! I miss Big Show's old Chokeslams. He got some real fucking height on them and slammed them down with FORCE. Not like these days where they look like shit.

LEG DROP~! Lesnar bouncing to sell it looked amazing. Lesnar goes on a stretcher, but fights Show and gets a fucking clothesline, knocking him backwards off the stretcher and over the line!!! Man, I love Lesnar bouncing around. This is the kind of stuff I was hoping for at their RR match, but we all know how that turned out .

TUG OF WAR WITH THE STRETCHER~! Show wins . So how does he celebrate? DESTROYS THE STRETCHER! Because... uhhhh... he didn't like that one. He takes the padding from it and places it on another one :lmao.

Big Show knocked off the apron right onto a stretcher!!! But he bounces off and lands hard on the floor. Poor Lesnar has to try and pick the giant up off the floor and onto a stretcher. GOOD LUCK.

Apparently Lesnar decides it's too much to handle and fucks off. Show wins via forfit? 

REY MYSTERIO'S MUSIC~! WHAT? Lesnar disappears and out comes Rey? LESNAR IS REY MYSTERIO!!!

:lmao Rey comes out for revenge and gets killed.

LESNAR HAS A FORKLIFT~! Nearly brought down the entire JD set lol.

DIVE OFF THE FORKLIFT~!

SUPLEX TO BIG SHOW~!

F-5 TO BIG SHOW~!

Lesnar rolls the giant onto a stretcher that's placed on the forklift, and over the line he goes! Lesnar retains!!!

Well, 17 years earlier a god awful stretcher match took place. At this event, we get a fucking GOOD stretcher match!!! Watching these 2 beat the shit out of each other is always :mark:.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 5*​





Spoiler: Unforgiven 2003












*Unforgiven 2003*

GOLBERG, WHEN I LOOK IN TO YOUR EYES, I SEE SOMEONE PRETENDING TO BE SOMETHING THEIR NOT, PRETENDING TO BE A WRESTLER.


*The Dudley Boys Vs La Resistance - World Tag Team Championship Handicap Tables Match*

Spike was supposed to be in this, but he got injured after La Resistance attempted to spinebust him from the ring to the outside through a table... and only Spike's head connected with the table in one of the sickest botches I've seen lol.

Fuck me Bubba is absolutely STIFFING THE SHIT out of Rob Conway :lmao. And the fans are eating it up lol.

MIDNIGHT EXPRESS MENTION~!

Ok, that was... odd. Dudleys clear house, look to get some tables involved but Bubba ends up double teamed... so D-Von just goes back to the apron and ignores everything :lmao.

:lmao love how referees always tryi to find a way to distract themselves when the Dudleys go for the wassup headbutt.

"oh shit, he's gonna headbutt that guy in the balls. THAT'S ILLEGAL. I'd best go check on this guy for no reason..."

D-VON THROUGH A TABLE~! With a fucking Irish Whip. LOL.

Bubba is alone now, but he gets the upper hand with STIFFNESS. Gotta be careful when being stiff with La Resistance, don't want them bitching about it afterwards...

"Why are you being so stiff with me? Do you not know I am green?" :lmao quote from Bubba in the Dudley Shoot Interview :lmao.

SUPLEX THROUGH A TABLE~! There goes... The one not called Conway or Dupree lol.

SPINEBUSTER OVER THE ROPES TO THE FLOOR THROUGH A TABLE TO CONWAY~! This time nobodies head got murdered . Wait, no, on replay his head DID crack the table, but there was another table in front of it that broke so he still went through a table while smashing his skull lol.

3-D!!! THE DUDLEY BOYS ARE THE NEW TAG CHAMPS!!! 17th time. Fucking hell lol. This was pretty good. Hot crowd, STIFFNESS, bitches going through tables. I had the fun.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


:lmao a fucking video package, complete with actual music from a real band and everything... for STEINER VS TEST :lmao.


*Test Vs Scott Steiner - If Steiner wins, Stacy is free of Test. If Test wins, Steiner becomes his man bitch or something*

:lmao they have a proper song for the video package for this shitty match... yet they don't have Stacy's theme?

Not gonna bother with this. Shock!

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Shawn Michaels Vs Randy Orton*

I will never tire of the EVOLUTION theme. All hail Motorhead!!!

Orton wants to use HBK as a stepping stone, and HBK is gonna make it as difficult as possible for him. How? HEADLOCK TAKEDOWNS~!

Orton takes a page out of HBK's book by skinning the cat and coming back with a dropkick, but old HBK as the grizzled veteran doesn't allow the rookie Orton to keep control for very long, and even shows Orton how skinning the cat SHOULD be done! 

One miss step from HBK sends him shoulder first into the ring post, and in comes FLAIR to work over Shawn on the outside while the referee is distracted. Orton might be the rookie, but FLAIR on the outside more than evens things up!

KNEE TO THE BALLS~! Flair rules.

:lmao Orton picks HBK up and runs him shoulder first into the ring post... AND DOES IT TO THE WRONG SHOULDER :lmao.

VADER MENTION~!

Flair kills it on the outside, while in the ring... nothing particularly good is happening. Orton's arm work, while solid, is basic as shit and not that engaging. And Shawn... a few times during the match even HE looks lost. A few times he just kinda stood around like he didn't know what the fuck to do, then every time he would just kinda half heartedly jump on Orton and punch him in the face.

Superkick countered into an RKO was ok, looked a little off too though tbh. And the fans didn't give a shit about it :lmao.

Seriously, Flair on the outside is working fucking overtime to make up for the, well, messy match Orton and Shawn are having. Sneaking around trying to attack Michaels and constantly getting smashed in the face, screaming at the fans, and sweating like me walking up a couple of stairs.

SUPERKICK~! 3 COUNT~! Flair puts Orton's foot on the rope afterwards and the ref sees it and restarts the match. Flair gives knucks or something to Orton who decks HBK and pins him.

Match just fell FLAT. Crowd weren't really into it, and honestly it didn't look like Orton and HBK were either. Off night for both. Big mess with Flair providing the only entertainment. Thankfully 4 years later they gave us a masterpiece at Survivor Series .

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


La Resistance are backstage being all hurt. Jericho shows up to complain about Austin to them. Building to the Survivor Series match :mark:.


*Gail Kim & Molly Holly Vs Trish Stratus & Lita*

Remember when Gail Kim just kinda showed up and won like, a battle royal to become women's champ or something? The fuck was all that about?

Oh btw, No. Also, FAP FAP FAP LITA AND TRISH.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Kane Vs Shane McMahon - Last Man Standing Match*

:lmao oh man I almost forgot about the BALL ELECTRICUTION during the build up to this.

CHAIR SHOTS~! Shane jumped Kane during his entrance and just cracks him over and over with chair shots to the back and to the fucking FACE.

Man, Shane is fucking DOMINATING Kane! Smashing his head repeatedly into the steel steps :mark:. Then jabbing him in the face... and then Kane shoves him over the barricade :lmao.

BOTCHED POWERSLAM~!

Lawler: The referee is counting Shane?

WELL FUCKING DUH. Shane is down, match is a last man standing. WHY THE FUCK WOULDN'T HE YOU GIANT PLEB?

CHOKESLAM~! SHANE IS UP!!

Kane looks to go for a tombstone, but decides it ain't good enough, so STEEL STEPS are brought in.

Is Kane capable of taking a face bump? RKO, Pedigree, BULLDOG ON STEEL STEPS... he always gets his hands up and has about 2 feet between his hands slapping the surface and his fucking head. DO IT PROPERLY YOU TAWT.

COAST TO COAST DRIVING STEEL STEPS INTO KANE'S FACE~!

JR and Lawler scream "where's the ref" and I only just realise the referee is knocked out on the floor. THE FUCK DID THAT HAPPEN?

SPAMMING THROWING SHANE INTO THE UNFORGIVEN SIGN~!

ATTEMPTED MURDER ON LIVE PPV~!

MORE ATTEMPTED MURDER ON LIVE PPV~!

Shane dives off the stage and... KANE MOVES :lmao. Shane is dead or something. Kane wins. Match was mostly sucky with a couple of fun spots.

*Rating: *1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Christian Vs RVD Vs Chris Jericho - Intercontinental Championship Match*

:lmao the crowd are fucking DEAD. They barely react to RVD hitting a moonsault from the top rope to the floor landing on both opponents. Hell even JR and Lawler sound bored :lmao.

:lmao oh god this is TERRIBLE :lmao. RVD is botching, Jericho is being clumsy, and Christian doesn't look anything like the worker he is now. Combine that with a DEAD CROWD and oh man this is shit :lmao.

WHAT THE FECK WAS THAT? RVD JUST KIND DID A FLIP IN THE CORNER WHILE JERICHO RAN AT HIM AND... JERICHO SMASHED INTO HIM MID FLIP :lmao.

This match feels like it's lasted 30 minutes. Wish I'd skipped this and watched Steiner/Test instead...

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*The Coach & Al Snow Vs Jerry Lawler & Jim Ross - Winning Team Becomes Raw Broadcast Team*

:lmao Al Snow turned heel and joined THE COACH? How do I not remember this shit? :lmao

Not watching this, however I skipped to the end and... COACH AND AL SNOW WIN? :lmao

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


JR and Lawler still have to call the main event, and both look like they wanna cry. Not because they just "lost their jobs", but because they still have to call the main event :lmao.


*Triple H Vs Goldberg - World Heavyweight Championship Match, if Goldberg loses he must leave the WWE*

:lmao I so wanna NO this, but it's a PPV main event and dammit I'm watching. Sadly.

Lillian Garcia looks FAP FAP FAP.

"THIS IS NUT CUTTING TIME" Ummm... what?

HHH wearing his TORN PENIS PANTS.

KNEE TO THE FACE TO COUNTER THE SPEAR~! That's like, the best thing to happen on this show since... the opener :lmao.

IF GOLDBERG IS VERTICAL, HE'LL BREAK YOUR ASS~! :lmao JR rules.

Figure Four and... the crowd are still just fucking DEAD :lmao. Nobody cares at all :lmao.

The fuck? HHH worked over the LEGS of Goldberg... and Goldberg is selling THE ARM on a comeback? What?

To make things worse, HHH keeps going back to the leg while Goldberg CONTINUES TO SELL THE ARM :lmao.

HHH is bleeding. Because... Flair didn't get chance to earlier?

REF BUMP~! LOW BLOW~! DDT~! NOBODY CARES STILL~!

POP FOR THE SLEDGEHAMMER :lmao.

:lmao Goldberg gets smashed in the FACE WITH A SLEDGEHAMMER, and less than 10 seconds later he's SPEARED HHH, SELLING HIS ARM AND SETTING UP FOR THE JACKHAMMER :lmao :lmao :lmao.

JACKHAMMER. 3 COUNT. GOLDBERG WINS.

:lmao OMG this is one of the worst matches I can recall seeing. HHH/Undertaker 02 matches look like all time classics compared to this :lmao.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - -1*​





Spoiler: No Mercy 2003












*No Mercy 2003*

This show features an I Quit match... between Vince McMahon and... STEPHANIE MCMAHON :lmao.


*Tajiri Vs Rey Mysterio - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match*

Oh man, after enduring far too many Raw 03 PPV's lately, what better way to kick off a show I remember being GOOD, than TAJIRI? :mark:

And Rey Rey as his opponent? OH HELL YEAH!

What's this? CW match where they... lock up and fight for the advantage? Well, that's something different haha. Normally expect these guys to kick and fly around, but nope! I liked it tbh.

KICKS~! Rey blocked! Kick of his own! Rey Rey going after the LEGS of Tajiri, which is what Tazz claimed would be the smart thing for Rey to do, as it not only grounds the Japanese Buzzsaw, but prevents those lethal KICKS~!

:mark: Mysterio kicking the leg of Tajiri to prevent him from building momentum. DROPKCIK TO THE BACK to counter the handspring elbow :mark:. Mysterio is looking to knock off the champion here tonight and... ends up getting knocked off the apron himself. TAJIRI IN CONTROL :mark:. KICKS~!

Tajiri kicks the SHIT out of Mysterio's arm. Why? This ain't no Malenko/Rey match where Malenko is a retard and targets the arm because, fuck it, he wanted to. Instead, earlier in the match when Rey was going after the arm, Tajiri countered the only way he could into an arm bar, and since then Tajiri has been able to use it to his advantage.

:mark: at that 619. Awesome way to hit it.

:mark: at that powerbomb to counter the West Coast Pop :mark:. BRUTAL.

:mark: at that moonsault. PERFECT BALANCE :mark:.

MOAR KICKS TO THE ARM :mark:.

Tajiri is STILL selling the leg work from earlier in the match :mark:.

Another good way to set up a 619 :mark:.

DEBUT OF A TRIAD MEMBER :mark:. Not sure which one haha. Oh apparently it was... both? I only saw one lol.

KICK TO THE HEAD~! TAJIRI WINS~!

Well this makes up for all the putrid shite I put myself through with the Raw 03 PPV's. Great opener. I could watch these two all day.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*A-Train Vs Chris Benoit*

Albert shoves Benoit into the corner and tells him he "ain't nuffin" and Benoit clubs the shit out of Albert's face :mark:.

But the strength of Albert keeps sending Benoit to the outside, as he tries to get inside the crippler's head. However the fans chanting "shave your back" pretty much nullifies his mind games!

:mark: Big beefy bastard and BENOIT clubbing the shit out of each other. So much fun to watch.

Crazy to watch Albert in 03 and see just how fucking good the guy was, knowing what they did to him when they brought him back as Lord Tensai with a shitty gimmick and limited move set. And now he's "Jason Albert" doing commentary on NXT . At least we got a couple matches between him and Sheamus.

:mark: shades of VADER there with Albert clubbing (my fav word for this match atm haha) the shit out of Benoit's face in the corner. Love Benoit constantly trying to fight back and never letting Albert take full advantage of him. Reminds me of the Mr Kennedy shoot where he talks about how Benoit would call a spot but never simply "let" him do the move. You wanna suplex him? You gotta kick him in the gut first, punch him in the face maybe, rather than him just letting you do whatever you want. Always fighting. Makes things seem a little more "real" and more like a FIGHT.

Albert with a... GERMAN SUPLEX? :mark:

"GET YOUR ASS UP, CHRIS!" very encouraging fans in the front row. :lmao they are military :lmao.

STEEL CHAIR~!

OH MY FUCKING GOD. And that, folks, is how Benoit's head got fucked up so much. Seriously, that HAD to have been part of the problem. Fuck it, GIF TIME~!










Benoit makes a comeback right after! TRIPLE GERMANS TO FAT ALBERT~!

A headbutt attempt leads to Albert sending Benoit crashing to the mat. Albert signals for a heatbutt!!! But Benoit gets up and Albert decides against going up top .

KICK TO THE CHAIR~! Albert's leg gets caught up in the chair! SHARPSHOOTER! ALBERT TAPS OUT! Nice tribute to Stu Hart who passed away a few days before this event .

This fucking rules.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*Zack Gowen Vs Matt Hardy*

VEEEEEEEEEEEE ONEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

"Matt can not be grossed out" unless he imagines Edge with Lita 8*D.

"Matt has survived five car wrecks" 6th time the charm then? :side:

Insane when you think about it; WWE hired a 1 legged wrestler and put him in numerous PPV matches and big angles. And he was the SECOND one legged wrestler, because BIG JOHNNY HIRED THE WRONG ONE FIRST :lmao. Should have kept him and made a tag team :side:.

Man, Gowen bumps like a fucking champ. THAT LARIAT~!

:lmao Cole openly admits on commentary that Gowen ain't gonna win this match.

MOONSAULT~! GOWEN WINS! COLE LOOKS STUPID! HA!

Fun match.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*APA Vs The Basham Brothers*

Thankfully that shemale isn't out with the Basham's because JBL clotheslined him to hell.

APA spend the first part of this match just killing this new team :mark:.

:lmao oh man that jawbreaker from Danny Basham on Farooq gave me flashbacks to Undertaker/Kronic. Surprised Farooq didn't scream "fuck" or at least punch him in the face :lmao.

APA seem to be playing both heels and faces in this, attacking behind the referee's back while still getting cheered because watching the APA beat someone up is always awesome.

Farooq gets a nice rest while the Basham's take turns at sitting in rest holds with him. Meanwhile Bradshaw keeps running in and smashing someone's face in because he's bored .

HOT TAG~! Bradshaw murders everyone. All is right with the world.

LAST CALL~!

The other Basham tries to sneak a top rope move... but Farooq holds onto him and he ends up getting a SUPPER LAST CALL~!

:lmao terrible ref bump.

CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL~!

Urgh, the shemale shows up and smacks Bradshaw with a sex toy or something and the Basham's pick up the win.

Most fun stuff.

:lmao turns out the Clothesline from Hell to the shemale was so he could get breast implants :lmao.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Vince McMahon Vs Stephanie McMahon - Father-Daughter I Quit Match*

:lmao oh man WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?

Stephanie during the build up to this seems shocked that Vince would do this sort of stuff. This is the guy that had UNDERTAKER KIDNAP HER 4 years earlier.

VINCE ATTACKS HIS OWN DAUGHTER FROM BEHIND :lmao.

Man, Vince is getting some MAJOR fucking heat during this. Not only beating up his own Daughter, but protecting Sable from his own wife :lmao.

Cole going apeshit on commentary is :lmao too. WHAT SABLE, ARE YOU GONNA BE THE NEW SD GM IF STEPHANIE LOSES? HUH? IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT? YOU BITCH! :lmao

:lmao at Linda attacking Sable. SLAP TO VINCE~! LOW BLOW~! LOW BLOW WITH A STEEL PIPE~!

Huh, so Stephanie can win this by pin. Ok.

Stephanie looks to deck Vince with the pipe, Vince tries to act all sorry, and Stephanie beats the shit out of him anyway :lmao.

VINCE HITS STEPHANIE WITH THE FUCKING PIPE~! Vince is THE ULTIMATE HEEL.

CHOKING STEPH WITH THE PIPE NOW! Linda throws in the towel as Stephanie refuses to give up. Vince wins, Stephanie loses her job at GM and marries HHH a few days later .

I'm not sure where I stand with this match. It's fucking crazy and almost unratable :lmao. That being said, I did LIKE it. It's not a bad match, it's just weird . Fuck it. STARS~!

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Kurt Angle Vs John Cena*

:mark:

Not often I look forward to an Angle match. And certainly a rarity to look forward to a match between these two.

Rapping Kurt is the greatest thing ever :lmao.

Dual chants for both men here, something Cena would get as a babyface too .

CENA HAS STREET CRED

:lmao at Angle avoiding a big right hand from Cena and flipping him off.

Cena gets destroyed early on as Angle out wrestles him, so Cena tries to get Angle to FIGHT him, where he thinks he'll have the advantage. Angle beats the fuck out of him still :lmao.

CLOTHESLINE~! Looked brutal. 

:lmao Angle is STILL out fighting Cena. Angle is beating some RESPECT into Cena.

RUNNING SHOULDER from Kurt to Cena in the corner looked insane, almost as if Cena was supposed to MOVE because Angle was going 100 mile an hour like he wanted to crash into the ring post. But nope. Cena didn't move. Looked cool and I'm not entirely sure it wasn't supposed to happen that way but oh well .

Angle goes for it again in another corner and this time Cena DOES move and Angle crashes into the ring post. Time for Cena to control things.

ANGLE IS BLEEDING FROM THE MOUTH. And nobody knows why :lmao. Must have been the hard way then.

Cena's control segment ain't the greatest thing to start with, as he just sits there in a front face lock for a little while. But luckily Angle gets to make a number of comeback attempts and THIS is where Cena does well in the match; cutting the bastard off.

DDT ON THE APRON :mark:.

THAT LEGDROP :mark:.

Angle keeps making comeback attempts (GERMAN SUPLEXES~!) and Cena keeps cutting him off in pretty awesome ways. He looks more STIFF AND GRITTY with his brawling too, something he honestly kinda sucks at today.

CORNER POWERBOMB~! Fuck me Angle took that like a true champ. Awesome.

F-U~! And Angle kicks out :lmao.

ANGLE SLAM~! And Cena kicks out :lmao. 

CHAIN~! Angle realises he can't beat Angle clean. The ref takes it away, and while his back is turned, Cena pulls out Angle's gold medals and decks him in the face!!!

ANGLE KICKS OUT~! Of course he does .

Bunch of fun counters as both men try for their finisher again and... ANKLE LOCK~!

CENA TAPS OUT!!! CENA TAPS OUT!!!

Still a great match for sure. Cena's best match probably until like, uhhh... fuck, maybe until 2007.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*Eddie Guerrero Vs The Big Show - United States Championship Match*

:mark: forgot this was on the show :mark:. Was looking at the time left and wondered what else would happen with 50 mins left and me only remembering Lesnar/Taker.

Damn, that attack involving the car looked brutal. Props to Eddie for taking that. His back is covered in marks and cuts and scars from the very REAL glass that was still in the car.

:mark: at Eddie trying to escape Show and ground him, but not being big or strong enough to make any kind of mark on the giant.

:mark: at Show mauling the back of Eddie.

:lmao Lie, Cheat and Steal Eddie comes out to play, throwing a chair into the ring which causes the ref to get rid of it, then he decks Show with a garbage can lid to the head. Probably should have done the opposite since the chair would have hurt more but oh well .

Fuck, those back bumps into the ring post. Poor Eddie's back .

I'M GONNA BREAK YOU!

Fuck the fans chanting boring btw. Dumb cunts.

Poor referee. Show throws Eddie onto him when he kicks out of a pin, then Show goes to leg drop Eddie who is still on the referee... but Eddie moves and Nick Patrick is DEAD.

BRASS KNUCKS~!

Referee has recovered enough to make a 2 count! LOL. Good job he wasn't the ref for Undertaker/HHH WM 17. He would have gotten back up from the elbow drop 20 seconds later and counted both men out .

US TITLE TO THE FACE~!

FROG SPLASH~!

KICK OUT? 

MONSTER CHOKESLAM~!

Eddie is DONE. New US champion... NO?!!! FOOT ON THE ROPES! EDDIE IS STILL IN THIS THING!!!

LOW BLOW & DDT~! Can Eddie keep this up? Can Eddie WIN? :mark:

Another chokeslam in the middle of the ring, and Eddie can't escape from this one. NEW CHAMP.

Great match. Fuck the fans.

Poor Eddie, lost his title and feels like shit, and what happens? Chavo Jr shows up. Bad day just got worse. Get that useless moo away from Eddie!

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*Brock Lesnar Vs The Undertaker - WWE Championship Biker Chain Match*

:mark:

PUNCHES :mark:.

Love Undertaker working the arm early on as he usually does, which sets up to Old School, but Lesnar knows it's coming and rams 'Taker into the corner instead and we get both guys tied up throwing big punches to each other's KIDNEYS :mark:.

Undertaker gets closer to doing Old School again but Lesnar still won't let him execute it, and it results in Lesnar taking a bit of a beating lol.

OLD SCHOOL~! Undertaker finally has Lesnar weakened enough to land it... and then he follows it up with some crazy Lucha roll up!!! Lesnar is FREAKED OUT by that and gets his arse to the outside :lmao.

OUTSIDE BRAWLING :mark:. TAKER DOING HIS "KNEES INTO THE STEEL STEPS" SPOT. Which I'm fairly certain he stole from FOLEY. But when you nearly kill a man twice in ONE MATCH I think you can steal anything you want from him and he ain't gonna say shit .

They battle in the ring for a while, both guys landing some awesome shots btw, and then Undertaker sends Lesnar crashing down neck first onto the ropes which gives him a chance to climb the pole to grab the chain!

LIGHTS OUT~!

When they come back on, Lesnar is back up and preventing the Not So Dead Man from grabbing the deadly chain!

:mark: @ every time Undertaker makes a comeback with those big punches. Guy rules at punching.

PILEDRIVER ON THE STEEL STEPS~! BY UNDERTAKER~! AND IT WASN'T A TOMBSTONE VERSION~!

:mark:

Again Undertaker tries to climb the pole, but Lesnar again interferes only to end up stuck in a triangle choke!!!

How does Lesnar respond? UPPERCUT TO THE BALLS~!

Fucking hell, Undertaker tries to deck Lesnar with the steel steps, but Lesnar ducks and Undertaker ends up lobbing the steps over the ropes and very fucking nearly hits his own bike :lmao.

LESNAR GOES FOR THE CHAIN~! GETS CAUGHT IN A LAST RIDE~! LESNAR COUNTERS~! DOUBLE CLOTHESLINE~! :mark:

PUNCH EXCHANGE~!

Chokeslam countered into a spinbuster! Lesnar tries to make a cover and gets sucked in to another triangle choke!!!

LESNAR POWERS OUT WITH A POWERBOMB :mark:.

DRAGON SLEEPER AKA TAKIN' CARE OF BUSINESS~!

TCB COUNTERED INTO AN F-5!!!

"THE VETERAN THE UNDERTAKER GOT HIS BOTTOM... HIS FOOT ON THE BOTTOM ROPE" :lmao well done Cole.

CHOKESLAM FROM THE TOP ROPE! Undertaker decides against the cover and instead goes after the chain!

BUT WAIT, IT'S THE FBI! SOMEBODY PUT A HIT OUT ON THE UNDERTAKER?!?!

'Taker fucks em up and gives Lesnar a Last Ride!!!

DEAD MAN DIVE OVER THE ROPES TO TAKE OUT THE FBI!!! :mark: How the fuck did he have enough energy left to do that?

:lmao NUNZIO goes for the chain and gets knocked off the pole (above the turnbuckle!!!) to the floor! UNDERTAKER HAS THE CHAIN!

VINCE MCMAHON! VINCE SHOVES UNDERTAKER OFF THE ROPES! VINCE HAS JUST SCREWED THE UNDERTAKER!

LESNAR HAS THE CHAIN! SHOT TO THE FUCKING FACE! UNDERTAKER IS DONE.

:mark: this match still fucking rules. Two big bastards beating the absolute shit out of each other. Love it.

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 21.5*​





Spoiler: Bad Blood 2003












*Bad Blood 2003*

Oh sweet jebus what am I doing?


*The Dudley Boys Vs Rodney Mack & Christopher Nowinski*

:lmao oh man how awful does this look on paper? So awful I'm not even attempting to watch it.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


A burping contest takes place. Why oh why?


*Scott Steiner Vs Test - Winner gets Stacy as a manager*

:lmao NO! No! No!

STACY IS FUCKING FAP FAP FAP THOUGH!

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Christian Vs Booker T - Intercontinental Championship Match*

I can't do it. Not after their Insurrextion match.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


A pie eating contest next. Fuck me this is awful.


*La Resistance Vs RVD & Kane - World Tag Team Championship Match*

Sorry, I can't sit through a match with 3 people who absolutely suck. Kane ain't enough to make me watch it.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Chris Jericho Vs Goldberg*

Honestly don't wanna watch this either, but it's a big match and I AM kinda curious to see how it turned out. Can't be worse than Rock/Goldberg, right?

Jericho tries to play mind games with Big Bill, running away and escaping to the outside, but Goldberg just fucking charges at him and starts to beat the shit out of him and well, given their history it looks like Goldberg is legitimately trying to hurt Chris .

"Goldberg please go away" sign in the front row :lmao.

SPEAR! SPEAR! SPEAR! GOLDBERG SPEARED THE SECURITY WALL :lmao.

Lawler in the most sarcastic tone of voice ever: "Oh the mighty Goldberg is injured!" :lmao.

Goldberg is bleeding too :lmao.

Fuck me, how is Goldberg still throwing kicks? He already killed Bret Hart's career, and jebus he gets a couple of shots in on Jericho that looks brutal as fuck and not in the fun Tajiri way.

Jericho works the arm, because that's the only match you can do with Goldberg apparently.

GOLDBERG SUCKS chants :lmao.

At least Goldberg is selling the arm in this match when he SHOULD be selling it. Not that the HHH match where he gets confused :lmao.

Big Y2J chants now.

2 SPEARS on Jericho. First one hurt him just as much, the second uhhh... apparently wasn't as bad since he got right up and hit the Jackhammer :lmao.

This was... watchable. I basically enjoyed the 3 Spears .

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Ric Flair Vs Shawn Michaels*

Well this has... potential for sure, though I don't remember it being that good, so we'll see how it holds up .

Build up package was pretty sweet, one of the things WWE is usually always great at. Make me excited to see the match.

:lmao at HBK taking Flair down to the mat then WALKING ON HIM and doing a strut, followed up with a SLAP TO THE FACE. Awesome.

Shawn is all about trying to show up Flair early on, proving that he's better than his idol. Then Flair sees once chance to go for the legs and BAM, HBK is down.

FIGURE FOUR~!

Shawn escapes, then Flair starts fucking STOMPING on the knee of HBK. Looks awesomely brutal lol.

HBK USING THE FIGURE FOUR~! I don't think Flair is enjoying it...










:lmao

EYE POKE~!

:lmao at that "superplex". They'd have gotten more height doing it in the ring like normal :lmao.

RANDOM TABLE~! Because this match needed a table spot apparently.

:lmao Orton shows up out of nowhere and gets... knocked out instantly :lmao.

CROSS BODY TO FLAIR THROUGH THE TABLE~!

:lmao I just noticed a guy in the front row dressed up like Tigger :lmao. WHO DOES THAT?

:lmao DOUBLE LOW BLOW TO HBK AND THE REF :lmao.

SWEET CHIN MUSIC~!

ORTON WITH A CHAIR TO HBK'S SKULL~!

FLAIR WINS~!

I liked most of this. Wasn't great but certainly good.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


Signing contest now. Kill me.


*Triple H Vs Kevin Nash - World Heavyweight Championship Hell in a Cell Match - Mick Foley Special Guest Referee*

:lmao the build up for this match was based more around FOLEY being the special referee. And then Foley comes out LAST rather than like, the WHC :lmao. FOLEY IS BIGGER THAN THIS MATCH.

:lmao the match even starts with HHH getting in FOLEY'S face with Nash standing in the background. 

:lmao at HHH fumbling over the ropes to the outside. Guy can't even be thrown to the floor properly in 2003 :lmao.

NASH SHOVES HHH INTO FOLEY~! Foley... doesn't care .

HHH gets thrown into the side of the cell a number of times, but it's a back body drop on the floor that gets any kind of reaction from the fans .

:lmao at Nash choosing the one corner with a camera man stood in to push HHH into :lmao.

For all the :lmao I'm doing, don't confuse that with me hating this match so far btw. It's actually been a pretty good brawl so far. Nash is just fucking MAULING HHH and that's fun to watch .

TOOL BOX~! 

HAMMER TO THE KNEE~!

HAMMER TO THE HEAD~!

WHY DID HHH GO FOR THE TOOL BOX RATHER THAN HIS SLEDGEHAMMER?

HHH and Foley have another confrontation in the ring, while Nash is dead from being hit in the head with a hammer . Nash might as well go home .

SCREWDRIVER~!

KEVIN NASH IS SCREWED~!

2X4 WRAPPED IN BARBED WIRE~! They are bringing out all the toys for this, aren't they lol? Makes sense, no way can they have a match as long as this one is and rely only on their wrestling ability .

Fuck me HHH is POURING with blood.

SNAKE EYES RIGHT ONTO THE BARBED WIRE~! Awesome.

Some matches throw in a ton of weapons and it takes away from the match (see HHH/Jericho HIAC), but here, both guys mauling each other with weapons actually makes for a GOOD match.

WOODEN CRATE TO THE HEAD~! Where the fuck did that even come from? It was already just THERE on the floor. Must have missed when they brought it out .

SLEDGEHAMMER~! So it IS there... he just decided on using a small normal hammer earlier because...

SLEDGEHAMMER~!

Why is Foley taking it away from him? Seriously? HELL IN A CELL NO FUCKING RULES DAMMIT.

HHH cracks Nash in the head with a chair and then... decks Foley with it too! Why? I dunno. Surely taking out the referee is a dumb move? 

MADIBLE CLAW~!

FOLEY IS BLEEDING~!

LOW BLOW~!

Steel steps to Foley's face by Nash :lmao. Seriously, Nash doesn't even need to be here :lmao.

:mark: my favourite part of the match now. HHH shoves Nash into Foley, who flies off the apron into the cell. Nash lands a JACKKNIFE and covers... and Foley jumps right up and makes a count so HHH can kick out at 2 with absolutely no time to recover, making Nash's finisher look like shit :lmao.

Take a shot every time someone says BASTARD during this match. You'll be fucking HAMMERED :lmao.

SLEDGEHAMMER TO THE HEAD~! PEDIGREE~! NASH IS FINISHED~!

Match holds up for sure. Really good, despite who is in it. A bloody, brutal HIAC match. Me likey.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 1*​





Spoiler: No Way Out 2003












*No Way Out 2003*

How odd... NO video package before the PPV. Guess they didn't want people to know what the main event was :lmao.


*Chris Jericho Vs Jeff Hardy*

First time WWE have come to Montreal since that little incident back in 1997 (back on PPV, at least, no idea if they did TV since).

Jericho is Canadian and... gets booed .

Huh, looks like someone threw paint on Jeff before he came out. Get a fucking shower ya bum.

Jericho tries to wrestle at the start of this match, but Jeff is all "fuck this, someone threw paint on me before the match and I look like a tit" and decides to throw bunches at Jericho instead.

Fans seem to have realised Jericho is Canadian now and are chanting for him . A little slow eh?

:mark: Jericho taking a Sgt Slaugter-esque turnbuckle bump :mark:.

Hardy starts building momentum with his jumpy flippy shit, until Jericho avoids that barricade spot Jeff likes to do and follows it up with the WORST flapjack ever into the steel steps. Jeff would have gotten more height if he stood on his tippy toes because the lazy shit barely jumped here.

:lmao at both guys throwing out some sloppy shit. You know that jawbreaker move Jeff like to do? Well he kinda mixed that up with a monkey flip which resulted in a shit looking THING. Then Jericho comes back with the worst enziguri attempt I've ever seen.

Seems that while planning this match out backstage, Jericho knew he'd get a babyface reaction from the Canadian crowd, but Jeff refused to be the heel of the match... which results in neither man being heel, no control segment from anyone which leaves us with a bunch of MOVES~! and they don't even manage that properly .

SWANTON~! MISS~! ACT LIKE IT HIT ANYWAY~!

:lmao

This is just one seemingly long (feels like it lasts forever) MOVES~! fest with a bunch of near falls. Not my cup of tea. Neither is tea, actually. Fuck tea. Tastes like... well tea, which is the problem.

:lmao HBK shows up to save Jeff as Jericho keeps the Walls locked in, and the fans absolutely SHIT on him. And then cheer the fuck out of him when he takes out both Jericho and Christian .

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Rob Van Dam & Kane Vs William Regal & Lance Storm - World Tag Team Championship Match*

Fun opening exchange between RVD and Storm, with RVD throwing shit at Storm and Storm countering and avoiding as much as he can until he gets kicked in the face .

Then Regal comes in and... gets more of the same .

KANE SLAMS REGALS and... Regal is FUCKED UP. Knocked out for a few moments + concussion which puts him out of action for a while and kills the big tag match for WM .

Storm takes over for a while, but Regal being the MAN he is still continues the match!

HALF NELSON SUPLEX :mark: :mark: :mark:.

:mark: @ Storm mounting RVD and just battering his face.

"WE WANT REGAL" chants :mark:.

:mark: at Regal's awesome bump off a big boot by Kane. Guy is still better concussed than most people.

Kane's mask gets fucked up and he can't see. RVD gets pushed into him and he thinks its Regal or Storm. CHOKESLAM~! RVD gets pinned. Ha.

Solid match despite what happened to Regal!

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Billy Kidman Vs Matt Hardy - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match*

Matt had to drop 10 lbs in 2 weeks in order to challenge for the title .

MATT IS ANNOYED BY SNOW & ICE~!

MATT TAKES HOT TEA WITH MILK & SWEETENER~!

I find it funny that Cole and Tazz are playing up on the whole "Matt isn't a normal CW" claiming he's not used to this style and shit. Uhhh... did they forget about his entire career prior to this match? You know, when he and his brother Jeff would fly around like CW's and wrestle CW's and shit as well as heavyweights? If anything Matt was always more of a CW than a HW :lmao.

Matt grounds Kidman. And uhhh... he does holds on the ground to make sure he keeps him grounded. And uhhh... Kidman is grounded by Matt's ground offence.

Fuck me this match is a whole load of nothing. Matt applies holds on the floor while using about 6 Side Effects. Kidman makes a couple of comebacks that aren't exactly inspiring. Shannon Moore might as well have stayed in the back.

Twist of Fate from the ropes and Matt wins the CW title. Thankfully he'd go on to REY MYSTERIO and have some great matches.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


OH NOES EDGE IS DEAD OR SOMETHING BACKSTAGE AKA HIS NECK IS FUCKED AND HE'S BUGGERING OFF FOR OVER A YEAR.


*The Undertaker Vs The Big Show*

:mark: these two had some fucking CLASSICS in 2008 and while I've never enjoyed this as much as some other people, I am hoping for something good and maybe for me to like it more this time around.

FOUR WORDS: SHUT UP AND FIGHT!!!

:mark: Undertaker does his over the ropes bump and takes the fight right to Big Show on the outside, throwing those BIG SOUP BONES right in Show's face.

Undertaker has returned after being thrown off the stage by Show in October, and he's a "new" Undertaker now as Tazz explains on commentary. He's now starting to use MMA moves and holds and is having to adapt to the new styles of young wrestlers coming up. We see Undertaker counter the power of Show by using speed and his unique offence and I'm :mark: the entire time lol.

WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION TO UNDERTAKER... WITH A STEEL CHAIR IN FRONT OF HIS FACE~! But the WMD wouldn't be established until 2008 so Undertaker can continue wrestling .

:mark: those fucking shots to Show's head :mark:. Show just stands there out of it while Undertaker caves his fucking FACE in :mark:.

Love Undertaker's "out of it" selling, and it's done wonderful here are Show repeatedly headbutts the fuck out of him, busting him open! Arn Vs DICK Vs Undertaker in a "sell a shot to the head" match would be the greatest thing in the history of everything ever.

:mark: at Undertaker's comeback with those fucking strikes :mark:. Especially when he just fucking charges head on at Show and blasts him in the face with a running punch. 

Show is doing a great job cutting Undertaker off with such simple moves like a punch of his own or a headbutt. Being as big as he is, even doing it to UNDERTAKER looks legit, and Undertaker's selling of everything just puts it over that much more.

LOW BLOW~! DDT~!

:lmao Undertaker signals for a Last Ride. Like that's gonna happen from a non corner position .

Meanwhile Big Show's giant red underwear is on display as his ring gear slowly moves up his leg .

TAKIN' CARE OF BUSINESS~! But Heyman senses Show is in trouble and distracts 'Taker on the apron.

A-TRAIN~!

DEAD MAN DIVE TO A-TRAIN AND HEYMAN :mark: :mark: :mark:.

Undertaker is on fucking FIRE now and Big Show is GONNA PAY :mark:.

CHOKESLAM BY BIG SHOW~!

PIN COUNTERED INTO A TRIANGLE CHOKE~! THAT MMA OFFENCE COMING INTO PLAY :mark:.

BIG SHOW GETS CHOKED OUT!!! UNDERTAKER WINS!!!

:mark: How on earth have I never been a big fan of this in the part? This fucking ROCKS (THE DRAGON)! Right fucking up there with their 08 matches tbh.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


Bischoff thinks his match with Austin later will be easy as he can make it No DQ and have tons of help. Then Vince McMahon shows up and says nobody can interfere, and if they do they'll be fired :lmao.


*Kurt Angle, Shelton Benjamin & Charlie Hass Vs Brock Lesnar & Chris Benoit - Handicap Match*

So Edge is off for surgery, leaving Benoit and Lesnar to face 3 men. The sheer TALENT in this match makes it look :mark: on paper, but honestly I've always thought it absolutely SUCKED. I changed my mind on the previous match, maybe I can end up loving this one too?

BROCK looks like a fucking beast early on, dominating Team Angle then begging to get his hands on Angle only to be double and triple teamed and STILL getting up and fighting back.

We get a preview of Lesnar/Angle WM match with Angle applying a sleeper hold and wrapping his legs around Lesnar to both ground him and wear him down even more. Seems out of place in a tag match tbh, especially with how long it lasts.

BENOIT HOT TAG :mark:. Comes in and suplexes bitches left, right and centre :mark:.

The numbers advantage comes into play allowing Team Angle to regain control and now Benoit has to play FIP.

:lmao the fuck is Lesnar doing on the apron? He's rubbing his neck and roaring or something :lmao.

BOOOOORING control segment.

LESNAR HOT TAG :mark:. Comes in and suplexes bitches left, right and centre :mark:. Huh, that sounds familiar...

Multiple Crossface/Ankle Lock counters... which is retarded because Benoit isn't even the legal and and I don't even think Angle is? 

Uhhh ok Hass taps out. Apparently he was the legal man and so was Benoit... even though Lesnar just came in off the hot tag.

Anyway, this is fucking SHIT. Seriously.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Triple H Vs Scott Steiner - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Oh god it just gets worse. And there is still the god awful main event to come :|. And Austin/Bischoff too :|.

Their RR match was SO FUCKING BAD... they booked it again a month later. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THEM?!?!

*3 days later*

Ok I suppose I should watch this match now .

:lmao the fans are booing Steiner and cheering HHH :lmao. Absolutely NOT what this match needed :lmao. Was gonna be awful on its own, but a crowd not reacting the way they would be expected to = match fucked up .

I like how HHH's leg is taped up, giving Steiner an area to focus on. It was like they watched their RR match back (I fucking hope they did, fans were tortured by it so they should too) and realised that Steiner couldn't do anything beyond SUPLEXES, so creating a leg injury for him to attack meant he had something else to do .

:lmao the MOMENT I finished writing that last sentence... Steiner hit a suplex :lmao.

Scotty applies a Figure Four, but it just doesn't look right when he does it... so Flair pokes his eyes behind the referee's back to prevent such a thing from continuing. I guess if he did that to Steiner for making the Figure Four look bad, he should probably torture and eventually kill The Miz for what he did to the hold...

:lmao the fans who moments ago were cheering HHH are now chanting BORING because HHH is in control :lmao.

:lmao Steiner builds momentum and what does he do? Leg work again? Nah. SUPLEXES!!!

:lmao Steiner just fucking RUNS into HHH'd boot and I'm 99.9% certain he got KNOCKED OUT. HHH goes for a cover and tries to use the ropes, ref catches him and they argue and shove each other for about a minute while Steiner recovers .

MOAR SUPLEXES :lmao.

Orton and Batista show up and get destroyed.

:mark: at Orton being thrown over the ropes and just fucking DIVING onto Batista. Best thing about this match so far.

WHC to the face of Steiner... he kicks out, fans boo :lmao.

PEDIGREE. Yes! It's fucking OVER.

Awful. Awful. Awful. Awful.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Steve Austin Vs Eric Bischoff*

GTFO.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Hulk Hogan Vs The Rock*



Their WM match is great. Despite the people involved, the age of Hogan when it happened etc... it managed to be GREAT. So a re-match sounds like a good idea, right?

Unless something drastically changes this time around, I'm gonna say this is fucking awful. Steiner/HHH awful. But it's the main event for the show so I'm gonna endure it.

:lmao nothing bust stalling + punches for 5 minutes and then... ROCK BOTTOM :lmao. 5 minutes in and we get a fucking finisher. For a 2 count .

Huh, using a weight lifting belt on your opponent is perfectly legal apparently. Why more people don't bring one to the ring to aid them makes no sense to me. IT'S LEGAL APPARENTLY. 

More nothingness and then SHARPSHOOTER IN MONTREAL.

STEEL CHAIR TO THE ROCK. And the referee... doesn't give a shit :lmao.

Oh a People's Elbow now. Two in a row. HOGAN NO SELLS :lmao.

LEG DROP.

Apparently Hogan can kick out of a Rock Bottom in 5 minutes, then 2 Elbows in a row... but Rock needs Vince to turn the lights out after ONE Leg Drop .

Oh and the referee is down. The brand new ref from Montreal that we've never seen before tonight. That isn't odd.

Ref hands Rock a steel chair, Rock smashes it over Hogan.

Rock Bottom. Done.

Wow. This is just wow. BAD AS FUCK. Rock/Hogan II is like Rock/Cena II. Finishers with FUCK ALL in between. Terrible.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 4*​





Spoiler: Armageddon 2003












*Armageddon 2003*

Armageddon is here... but will I survive it?


*Mark Henry Vs Booker T*

Ooooo, starting the show off with MARK HENRY? Show might have something worthwhile after all!

His opponent is Booker T? Well this might not be that good...

Love how this SINGLES match is a follow up from a STREET FIGHT .

Booker T has been mauled and destroyed in recent weeks so I like him going right after Henry and just blasting him in the face and clubbing the shit out of his back. 

HENRY STRENTH~! Puts a stop to any Booker T offence. Which is awesome. Because fuck Booker T offence .

Hmmmm, Booker actually looks GOOD in this early on. He's using a mix of his superior speed and VETERAN INSTINCTS to try and keep Henry at bay and ground him, hopefully taking the STRENGTH out of the equation.

TEDDY DISTRACTION~!

:mark: now we get to see Henry dominate Booker. Awesome backbreaker, followed up with a modified Bow and Arrow submission which looks NASTY and is one of the less dull holds that Henry could have used (thankfully. Last thing we need is a damn NERVE GRIP lol).

Ahhh fuck, SLEEPER HOLD. Come on Mark, you better than this homie. Yeah a sleeper from HENRY looks more brutal than a small guy, but it's still just someone sat in a hold taking up time. Yey it doesn't last long!

Motherfucker, bear hug. STOP IT NOW, MARK.

Again thankfully the hold isn't applied for long. I guess I'd rather have 3 submission holds for very short periods with Booker making a comeback only to be cut off over one stupidly long hold.

THAT FUCKING CLOTHESLINE :mark:. Booker T is DEAD.

Booker T starts to come back, landing some huge kicks but can't budge the World's Strongest Man.

AXE KICK~!

HENRY KICKS OUT!!! :mark:

SPINEBUSTER BY HENRY. Surprised the ring held up on that one tbh lol. 

Henry is back to just mauling Booker :mark:. But Booker refuses to stay down!

POWERBOMB... SORT OF! Looked like Henry got Booker up but Booker slipped off and just landed as if he'd been powerbombed lol. Luckily it wasn't botched to all hell with him landing on his neck.

AXE KICK #2~!

Henry is defeated. Good match! I kinda wanna check out their street fight now.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


FOLEY~! He's got 1 million signatures for the "give Austin his job back" petition or something. Brings out FAP FAP STACY in a cheerleader outfit to celebrate. FOLEY IS GOD.

Orton and Flair interrupt. Booooo. More Stacy's ass, less Randy Orton and Flair please. Blah Blah Blah Orton saying stuff. Foley is the referee for the Orton/RVD match? Don't remember that at all lol. Foley decides the match is happening now.


*RVD Vs Randy Orton - Intercontinental Championship Match - Special Referee Mick Foley*

Lol, RVD does his "R. V. D." pose, Orton tries to kick him, gets caught and RVD sweeps his legs and punches him in the face a few times .

:lmao I've never liked RVD as much as I do right now. First 5 minutes of this match see RVD absolutely destroy Orton . KICKS~! FLIPS~! MOAR KICKS~!

Then I end up liking Orton for shoving RVD off the ropes face first into the barricade . 

It's just fun watching both of these man take a beating .

:mark: that fucking DROPKICK on the outside. Rare I mark for a sodding DROPKICK lol, but that was done to perfection!!!

:lmao RVD getting choked on the ropes is the FUNNIEST THING EVER. He's spazzing out, making fast noises and making Cena look like a good actor :lmao.

FLAIR AND FOLEY STAND OFF :mark:.

Orton is wrestling this match nice and smartly, targeting the HEAD of RVD which is injured or something from a top rope RKO the week before maybe? I forget. 

FUCKING CLOTHESLINES~! Orton is bringing out plenty of sick looking clotheslines and RVD is bumping awesomely for all of them.

Plenty of varied offence from the LEGEND KILLER in this one as he continues to go after the head, but at the same time he does keep going back to that DAMN HEADLOCK.

Good comeback from RVD, his offence looks decent against Orton, though that might be because 90% of the kicks to the face look like they legitimately connect :lmao.

DDT FROM THE ROPES~!

RVD kicks out but he is FUCKED from the DDT still. Good selling of his head.

FLAIR tries to nail RVD with brass knucks, but Foley intercepts! RVD is distracted enough though for Orton to dropkick him off the ropes!

RKO~!

NEW IC CHAMP~!

Great match. Could have done with less of the headlock, but everything else was damn good. RVD selling his head actually shocked me, he's one of those guys to fucking ignore limb work and shit as he goes into the finishing stretch.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*Chris Jericho & Christian Vs Trish Stratus & Lita*

Jericho and Christian make a bet over 1 Canadian dollar that they can nail either Trish or Lita first. Trish is falling for Jericho but finds out about the bet. Match is made :lmao.

Jericho though is having regrets because he realises he does actually have feelings for Trish.

TRISH & LITA FAP FAP TAG TEAM.

Trish slaps the shit out of Jericho, so Jericho grabs her and... SPANKS HER :lmao. I'm sure that'll help...

Jericho is trying to prevent Trish from hurting him while not actually doing anything to her, so CHRISTIAN tags himself and and shoves Trish half way across the ring and dares LITA to get in the match :lmao.

HEADBUTT TO CHRISTIAN :lmao.

:lmao LITA is dominating Christian. And not in the way he wants .

Jericho nails LITA from behind... but not in the way he wants . Seems Jericho has no problem beating up LITA. Bastard. YOU LEAVE HER ALONE!!!

CHRISTIAN STRIPPING LITA~!

What a CREEPY LITTLE BASTARD. Though I don't blame him :side:.

HOT TAG TO TRISH~! Which goes nowhere because, you know, women Vs man .

FUCK ME at that Clothesline to Trish. Christian damn near killed her.

LITACANRANA~!

Jericho smashes her against a wall. But not in the way he wants to .

ROLL UP TO TRISH BY CHRISTIAN~! This is done lol.

What a crazy match, but you know what? IT'S ACTUALLY FUCKING GOOD. I swear to god.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Shawn Michaels Vs Batista*

Orton had an AWFUL match with Shawn at Unforgiven. If Batista has a better match I'll :lmao.

Shawn sticking and moving early on, jabbing away at Batista and avoiding the POWER of the jacked up newbie.

Batista is PISSED. I guess I understand, can't imagine being jabbed in the face is much fun .

Shawn keeps chipping away at Batista, which makes the beast ANGRY and prone to make mistakes, so FLAIR has to calm him down on the outside. The whole Evolution thing was such an awesome idea. HHH as the "main eventer" doing what he does, then 2 rookies with FLAIR always in their corner to give them advice and wisdom well beyond their years. A perfect dynamic.

:lmao this is looking INFINATELY better than the Orton/HBK match. HBK looks like the veteran, meanwhile Batista uses his POWER to overcome his inexperience and Flair on the outside is always there to throw him some advice. Match has a structure and a story, unlike the Orton match that was a pure MESS.

BACK WORK~!

Everything Batista does is BASIC AS SHIT... but it all looks damn good, and HBK sells everything like he's in the worst pain ever. Shame HBK has to kip up TWICE despite the back work lol.

CHOKE COUNTERED INTO A DDT~! Nice callback to the build up of this match, where Batista picked up HBK with a double handed choke and caused INTERNAL BLEEDING. HBK knew it was coming this time and countered.

ELBOW DROP~!

HBK is tuning up the band!!!

SUPERKICK COUNTERED INTO A SPINEBUSTER~!

ANOTHER SPINEBUSTER~! Shawn's back is fucked!!!

Batista shows his greenness here though, taking his time between moves and slowly picking up HBK for a Powerbomb, giving old HBK time to counter into a superkick!!! HBK wins!!!

Yeah this was GOOD!!! This entire event so far is shocking the absolute FUCK out of me. Blows the Orton/HBK match out of the water.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Maven Vs Matt Hardy*

:lmao I think this might be the beginning of the end for this PPV.

Batista is still in the ring pissed off that he lost, so Matt and Maven start their match on the ramp :lmao.

Matt throws Maven into the ring and Batista takes his frustration out on the Tough Enough winner . And I think that's the end of this :lmao.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*La Resistance Vs The Hurricane & Rosey Vs Lance Cade & Mark Jindrak Vs Val Venis & Lance Storm Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Scott Steiner & Test Vs Batista & Ric Flair - World Tag Team Championship Tag Team Turmoil Match*

ROSEY IS THE SHIT! Literally :lmao. SUPER HERO IN TRAINING~!

:lmao poor Hurricane...










Holy fuck at Rosey just dumping (get it, SHIT, dumping... LOL) one of the Frenchies to the floor. Hurricane and Rosey eliminate La Resistance, then get jumped from behind by Jindrak and Cade and rolled up for the win in seconds!

STORM AND VENIS. What an odd pairing...

Storm is in the middle... beginning... I don't know exactly... of his "trying not to be boring" run. So he does a couple of "flashy" moves and poses for the fans, then gets decked in the face :lmao. 

Fun little match between these two teams, with Cade & Jindrak cheating to victory.

THE DUDLEY BOYS~! The tag champs are here!

:lmao Bubba goes to clothesline Cade, and he really leans forward with it to get more POWER into the move, but Cade moves and Bubba just falls into the roles like a retard :lmao.

Sweet LARIAT from Jindrak.

Bubba CRASHES into the steel steps, sending the top half right into the fucking camera man I think :lmao.

3-D~! Bubba and D-Von are confused as to who the legal man is and both cover :lmao.

:lmao I forgot Steiner and Test ended up teaming after battling all year over who gets to fuck Stacy. Guess they decided on each other? 

Weakest. Elbow drop. Ever.

Fuck me this is DULL. Val/Storm Vs Cade/Jindrak was the best part of all this. Should have given them 15 minutes to do their shit.

Dudley's retain their belts until...

I'M BACK, AND BETTER THAN EVER!!! Bischoff adds Batista & Flair to the match!!!

BATISTA BOMB~! New tag team champions!!!

Overall the match sucks. Like I said, Val/Storm Vs Cade/Jindrak was the best part of all this.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Molly Holly Vs Ivory - WWE Women's Championship Match*

Wow, my first NO for the event! I'm still shocked how good this show has been overall so far despite the last match and now me skipping this.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Goldberg Vs Kane Vs Triple H - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Oh boy. I don't see this being that good... .

HHH and Kane start things off teaming up against Goldberg. I'm shocked. A triple threat with 2 heels and they team up against the babyface? THIS IS REVOLUTIONARY~!

Not even 2 men are enough to take out Goldberg though, as he quickly fights them both off.

Kane and Goldberg then decide to punch each other in the face, while HHH hangs around the outside of the ring like a coward .

:lmao HHH sucks at taking a military press. Every time I've seen Goldberg try it on HHH in all their matches so far, HHH seems to struggle, which causes Goldberg to not be able to fully execute the lift. HHH BURRYING GOLDBERG~!

OH MY GOD HHH WENT FOR A COVER AFTER KANE SLAMMED GOLDBERG AND IT LOOKS LIKE KANE IS GONNA ATTACK HHH THIS IS INCREDIBLE I'VE NEVER SEEN THIS DONE BEFORE WHAT A REFRESHING TRIPLE THREAT FORMULA!!!

HHH DECKS KANE WITH A CHAIR~!

Kane comes back in and actually stops Goldberg from shattering HHH's ankle because... apparently hitting Kane in the fact with a steel chair is the best way to make friends with him?

HHH returns the favour, saving Kane from going through the table.

CHOKESLAM TO GOLDBERG THROUGH THE TABLE~!

No wait, the table didn't break :lmao. So HHH tells Kane to put Goldberg back on the table and elbow drops him aka HHH's go to move for when a table doesn't break .

And now HHH and Kane officially turn on each other...

Kane channels HOMER SIMPSON as he punches HHH... "DUFF, DUFF DUFF, DOH!" :lmao.

CHOKESLAM ON THE STEEL RAMPWAY~!

SPEAR~! Goldberg is back and he just SPEARED Kane to hell!

All 3 men fight for a while and then SPEAR TO KANE AGAIN~!

SPEAR TO HHH~!

Evolution show up because it's no DQ. ANOTHER SPEAR TO HHH lol.

CHOKESLAM TO GOLDBERG~! Batista drags Kane out of the ring while HHH makes the cover and becomes the new WHC. EVOLUTION WITH ALL THE GOLD.

This match isn't awful or anything... it's just kinda there for me. Nothing really stands out whatsoever. Still better than I was expecting, like the rest of the event lol.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 10*​





Spoiler: Survivor Series 2003












*Survivor Series 2003*

"I'VE BEEN CHOSEN TO BURY THE UNDERTAKER ALIVE"


*Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, John Cena, Bradshaw & Harcore Holly Vs Brock Lesnar, The Big Show, A-Train, Nathan Jones & Matt Morgan - Survivor Series Elimination Match*

This one starts off as a giant brawl when Hardcore Holly jumps Lesnar and beats the fuck out of him, throws a referee to the ground and ends up getting DQ'd :lmao. Eliminated BEFORE THE MATCH EVEN BEGINS :lmao. HOW DOES THAT WORK?!?!

CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL~! A-Train id DONE less than a minute later :lmao.

CHOKESLAM~! Bradshaw is eliminated... less than a minute later :lmao.

3 ELIMINATIONS IN ABOUT 2 MINUTES :lmao.

Cean just speared Lesnar's KNEE :lmao.

Cena playing the FIP in a tag match. That ain't something we see these days .

LESNAR AND BENOIT GETTING IT ON :mark:. I should re-watch their SD match again at some point. Just for the hell of it.

Man, how is a match with LESNAR AND SHOW dominating BENOIT boring? Amazed they managed it here...

Man, Morgan might suck but he takes a good German Suplex for a big guy lol.

:lmao Nathan Jones accidentally boots Morgan in the face and then FALLS OVER MORGAN :lmao

Morgan is eliminated with an Angle Slam.

ANKLE LOCK TO NATHAN JONES~! He taps out. He doesn't want a broken ankle like he got a broken arm during an arm wrestling contest during a mid-90's Worlds Strongest Man competition :lmao.

F-5 TO ANGLE RIGHT AFTER JONES GOT ELIMINATED~! ANGLE IS OUT!

CROSSFACE TO LESNAR~! LESNAR FUCKING TAPS!!!

Both team captains have been eliminated already lol. Big Show left alone to fight Cena and Benoit.

Cena makes a blind tag, decks Show with his chain, hits an F-U and wins.

This is... a clusterfucky mess. A bunch of quick eliminations, boring control segment followed by more quick eliminations. LOL. WHO THE FUCK BOOKED THIS SHIT?

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Vince randomly visits Shane backstage and says he feels like he's being protected by a higher power. Then he meets Austin in a hallway and they both burst out laughing at each other before Austin looks mad. And then leaves. I see why the opener had so many quick eliminations. We needed time for this...


*Lita Vs Molly Holly - Women's Championship Match*

FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP.

Also, no thanks.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Shane McMahon Vs Kane - Ambulance Match*

Shane launches himself at Kane, with both going over the ropes and holy FUCK it looks like Kane doesn't bend, instead stays stiff and falls over the ropes and lands on his head :lmao.

STEEL STEPS ON KANE'S FACE~! STEEL CHAIR TO STEEL STEPS~! TV MONITOR TO KANE'S HEAD~!

Is this match rushed for time too lol? First couple minutes we see Kane land on his head, get attacked by steps and a chair, tv monitor to his head a few times and then a giant elbow drop through a fucking table :lmao.

Kane SITS UP from all that and... Shane runs away? Kane follows and they end up backstage somewhere and Shane manages to sneak up from behind and attacks Kane with a Kendo Stick...

:lmao then Shane gets in a car, HITS KANE AND SEND HIM THROUGH SOME RANDOM SECURITY BOOTH :lmao. That was the most hilarious thing EVER.

Shane calls for the ambulance from the... walkie talkie he randomly has... and KANE NO SELLS EVERYTHING STILL :lmao.

:lmao another camera dies.

Shane goes head first into the Ambulance and cracks the windscreen with the back of his head... and NO SELLS IT :lmao.

:lmao Kane is selling a shot to the face from an Ambulance door more than BEING RUN OVER AND THROWN THROUGH A GLASS WINDOW :lmao.

:lmao after EVERYTHING Shane has done to Kane so far... he realises it wasn't enough so... he brings out the dreaded TIN FOIL GARBAGE CAN :lmao.

Awesome bump from Shane diving off the Ambulance and landing on... a cardboard box, smashing the tin foil can in Kane's face.

:lmao again Kane sells THAT more than BEING RUN OVER AND KNOCKED THROUGH A GLASS WINDOW :lmao.

HUGE "Shane O Mac" chant as Kane lobs Shane into the side of the Ambulance over and over again.

TOMBSTONE ON THE FLOOR. And this is finally fucking over.

Fuck me what a shitty fucking piece of shit this match is :lmao. SPOT! NO SELL! SPOT! NO SELL! SPOT! NO SELL! SPOT! NO SELL!

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Coach comes out and does something or something. I dunno. I skipped it.

Evolution backstage. Orton runs in and sounds like he has BIG NEWS... but gets distracted by all the hot women in the room. 2 of them punch his nipples :lmao.


*The Basham Brothers Vs Los Guerreros - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

Urgh, that damn shemale is out with the Bashams.

Thankfully EDDIE is involved in this match. Hopefully he can drag 3 talentless fucks to something watchable.

So EDDIE takes care of BOTH Bashams all on his own early on, until that moron Chavo accidentally distracts the ref and allows the Bashams to double team Eddie. Fucks sake Chavo, piss off already...

Hot tag to Chavo quicker than I would have liked, and Chavo runs in with dropkicks and attempts some EDDIE offence but fails miserably :lmao. Then he gets fucks up and EDDIE has to save his arse.

:lmao they do a "switch" with Doug and Danny, but the guy that came in gets IMMEDIATELY kicked out of the ring anyway, making the whole thing pointless :lmao. Then EDDIE frog splashes the shemale and Chavo spanks him because Chavo likes shemales.

Roll up and Chavo gets pinned because he's useless.

Fuck me this was horrible outside of EDDIE :lmao. Bashams were awful, Chavo was awful, the shemale was awful.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Shawn Michaels, Booker T, RVD & The Dudley Boys Vs Mark Henry, Randy Orton, Christian, Chris Jericho & Scott Steiner - If Team Austin wins, he can beat people up any time he wants. If Team Bischoff wins, Austin is fired*

Finally, a match on this show that I already know doesn't outright SUCK. I always thought it was overrated, but still considered it to be great. As long as it holds up I'll be happy. And who knows, maybe I'll like it more this time around.

Team Austin bounces around a couple of Team Bischoff guys to start things off, then STEINER gets in against RVD who starts throwing kicks at BIG POPPA PUMP, and Scotty is all "fuck this shit, SUPLEX". Very nearly eliminated RVD with a super overhead belly to belly :mark:.

Bah, Booker T gets a tag. Ha, he runs into a clothesline from STEINER.

Booker with an AXE KICK to Scotty, then the rest of Team Bischoff enter the ring and get mauled by Booker T's shitty offence before Team Austin piles in for a BRAWL~!

LOW BLOW~! STEINER RECLINER~! FAP FAP STACY ON THE APRON BOUNCING AROUND CHEERING FOR BOOKER T EVEN THOUGH SHE'S STEINER'S MANAGER OR SOMETHING~! Dudley's save her (ha, she used to manage them) with that reverse 3-D type move that fucks me off because any time they do it the retarded fans in the audience scream "THREEE DEEEEE!" at it even though it's clearly NOT A FUCKING THREE DEE YOU PRICKS.

Steiner gets eliminated by Booker, then he turned right around into a WORLD'S STRONGEST SLAM :mark:. Henry takes care of the Book Man!!! Now it's time for HENRY TO FUCKING DOMINATE :mark:.

:mark: FUCKING HENRY, MAN. Dudley's try to double team him and he just FUCKS THEM BOTH UP instead!!! :mark:

Man, when HENRY is on, he's the fucking MAN.

3-D to Henry. 5 Star Frog Splah. Dudley's and RVD pile on and manage to get a 3 count on Henry . BOOOOOOOOOO. At least he looked fucking STRONG in defeat lol. 2 finishers and 3 men to pin him. Wish he'd stuck around though.

Sweet jebus at that clothesline from Orton to RVD. Watching old Orton stuff makes me sad to see how far he's gone down over the last 5 or so years . His clotheslines went from being epic to being the most robotic shit ever.

RKO~! RVD IS GONE!!! YEY!!!

LOL Devon gets eliminated from a... uhhh.. neckbreaker thingy or something :lmao.

HBK TAGGED INTO THE MATCH FOR THE FIRST TIME!

:lmao at Sign Guy...










Bubba gets a low blow and the UNPRETTIER and is pinned while HBK stands on the apron doing fuck all. BREAK UP THE PIN YOU DUMB FUCK!!!

Now HBK is all alone with 3 opponents left. Serves him right.

Lots of "distract the ref while the other 2 team up on HBK" stuff going on, and at one point Christian sends Shawn head first into the ring post and HBK is GUSHING.

Christian tries to go to work on a bloodied HBK and... gets superkicked in the face :lmao. Christian is gone .

Shawn is getting beat down by the remaining 2 men from Team Bischoff, but he won't stay down! He keeps fighting back and getting some offence in, then counters a Walls of Jericho into a roll up and eliminated Y2J!!!

Orton and HBK are the final 2, but before Jericho leaves, he smashes a steel chair over the head of Shawn!!!

MASSIVE crossbody from Orton, but Shawn moves and the poor referee gets DESTROYED. Shawn slowly pulls himself up with the help of the ropes, and begins to tune up the band!!!

He moves in for the kill and BISCHOFF kicks him!!! Austin has had enough, he takes out Bischoff and nails Orton with a Stunner!!! He fights Bischoff up the entrance ramp, meanwhile BATISTA shows up, Batista Bombs HBK and Orton gets the win! Austin is FIRED!!!

Great match still, so it definitely held up, but I do think it does get overrated, especially HBK's performance at the end. Yeah, he did a good job selling the effects of being busted open and being in a 3 on 1 situation, but honestly I don't think it's anything THAT special. Shawn himself has done a better job, and honestly there wasn't THAT much time from when HBK gets busted open to when the match ends, especially considering he has THREE opponents left to go through. He was CONSTANTLY fighting back and was never really in THAT much danger. I probably would have liked this more had Christian, Jericho and Orton really got a control segment over Shawn.

Also, HENRY should have been one of the last guys to be eliminated. A bloodied HBK having to take out HENRY? That would have made this thing AWESOME.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*The Undertaker Vs Vince McMahon - Buried Alive Match*

Vince stands toe to toe with Undertaker, with a huge grin on his face as he believes a HIGHER POWER is watching over him. So Undertaker punches him in the face, and Vince is fucking BLEEDING after about 4 shots!!!

Undertaker is destroying, mauling, MURDERING Vince McMahon on live PPV :mark:. Multiple shots to the head, smashing his balls into the ring post a few times and choking him out with some cable. Vince McMahon is paying for his sins.

:mark: @ Undertaker punching Vince in the face... with a tv monitor!!! "WE'RE JUST GETTING STARTED" :mark:.

Seems Undertaker is bored with the weapons and ringside, and heads up to the grave site to bring back a fucking SHOVEL!!! RIGHT TO THE FUCKING FACE~!

STEEL STEPS TO THE ANKLE~! Throwback to 1998?

Undertaker picks up Vince McMahon and carries him over to the grave, where Vince manages to throw dirt in the Dead Man's eyes and land a low blow! SHOVEL TO UNDERTAKER! UNDERTAKER FELL IN THE GRAVE!!!

But Undertaker is basically fresh and can recover quick enough, and throws VINCE in the grave! He heads to the digger to try and empty the dirt over Vince and... FIREBALL!!!

THAT'S GOTTA BE... THAT'S GOTTA BE KANE!! KANE PUTS UNDERTAKER IN THE GRAVE, VINCE HEADS TO THE DIGGER AND THE DIRT DROPS, COVERING UNDERTAKER ENTIRELY!!!

THE UNDERTAKER HAS JUST BEEN BURIED ALIVE!!! VINCE WINS!!!

So this ruled more than I used to think. Undertaker destroying Vince is soooo much fun.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Goldberg Vs Triple H - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

:lmao A MAN GETTING BURIED ALIVE DOESN'T EVEN MAIN EVENT THIS SHOW :lmao.

HHH put a "hit" out on Goldberg. Batista "shattered" his ankle. Luckily HHH is still suffering from that torn penis so that just evens shit up .

Goldberg goes after BOTH HHH and Flair before the bell even rings and lands a SPEAR on HHH!!! The bell finally rings and Goldberg continues to kill HHH on the outside.

:lmao Goldberg has an injured ANKLE... so HHH targets... the knee :lmao. Then Flair actually gets some shots in on the ANKLE and HHH must have seen it because he finally targets THE CORRECT PART of the body :lmao.

So HHH stomps at Goldberg's ankle, Goldberg tries a power move to do a comeback, HHH goes back after the ankle, rinse and repeat until the REF BUMP where the Sledgehammer, brass knucks and Evolution all get involved.

Goldberg takes care of Evolution, then throws away the Sledgehammer and SPEARS HHH, followed by the Jackhammer and this is over, thankfully. GOOD GOD ALMIGHT WHO'S YOUR DADDY TONIGHT?

Dull and shitty. And this main evented OVER A MAN GETTING BURIED ALIVE? Fuck this company.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 5*​





Spoiler: Vengeance 2003












*Vengeance 2003*

Time to end a pretty damn BAD PPV year with one of the better shows of the year! Ya know, assuming it holds up .


*Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Benoit - United States Championship Tournament Finals Match*

Man oh man, what a way to kick off the FIRST Smackdown only PPV! A new title and a match between two of the ALL TIME great wrestlers! Shows new fans EXACTLY what SD was all about at the time!

Love how they make it FEEL like a big time match with the referee getting them both in the middle of the ring and explaining the rules. Adds to the importance of the match and makes it feel like a big boxing match.

And we go from the seriousness of that to Eddie mocking Benoit being blinded last week :lmao. 

Crowd are HOT for this one, chanting for BOTH men and a smattering of "Eddie sucks" chants too .

Some great sequences between the two as they wrestle for control, with Benoit gaining the first advantage with a BRUTAL shoulder block, forcing Eddie to escape to the floor to stop any momentum Benoit was building. When he feels he's ready, he gets back in the ring to lock up and this time EDDIE gets the better of Benoit! But unlike Eddie, Benoit doesn't pussy out of the ring and gets right back into the thick of things!

They continue to battle for dominance, and even throw out a few quick pin attempts before Eddie gets the better of the Wolverine AGAIN and now even Benoit has to back off to the outside to stop momentum just like Eddie had to!

TOMBSTONE ATTEMPT FROM EDDIE? COUNTERED BY BENOIT!!! BENOIT WITH... A SHOULDER BREAKER! And quick as lightning Benoit DIVES at Eddie to try and lock in the Crossface! :mark:

Eddie escapes to the outside again, but Benoit is PUMPED UP and hits a suicide dive! No losing momentum this time!

Remember when TAZ was a good commentator? Seriously, there was a time when he was good. Certainly better than Lawler, as far as being a former wrestler EXPLAINING matches. He does a pretty terrific job during this match tbh.

FUCK ME at that back suplex by Eddie. Benoit lands fucking HARD on his head and he definitely looks like he was legit hurt. Eddie tries to pick him up but Benoit pushes him away and Eddie kicks him in the chest a few times before applying an arm bar so he can recover.

THUMB TO THE EYE by Eddie. Why? Because Eddie can be a PRICK when he wants . Unfortunately it just FIRES UP Benoit! SUPERMEGAFUCKINGDESTRUCTIVE BACK SUPLEX FROM THE TOP ROPE! Payback for the back suplex from earlier :mark:.

TRIPLE GERMANS~!

THREE AMIGOS~!

SUPERPLEX~! Revenge for the super back suplex! :mark:

FROG SPLASH~! BENOIT DOESN'T MOVE ALL THE WAY :lmao.

MOTHERFUCKING POWERBOMB~! Not quite Nitro 1995 levels of brutal, but damn that was awesome.

Benoit locks in the Crossface, but Eddie grabs the ropes. Ref has to drag Benoit off and Benoit is fucking PISSED. Eddie charges into Benoit and the poor ref is knocked down.

US TITLE BELT TO BENOIT'S FACE~! FROG SPLASH~! BENOIT KICKS OUT!!! Eddie cannot fucking believe it!

The belt didn't quite work, so Eddie grabs it, knocks out the referee, places the belt on Benoit then collapses on the mat! One problem... the ref is OUT! Eddie is AWESOME as he tries to revive the referee while still pretending to be knocked out himself . Classic LIE, CHEAT AND STEAL moment .

CROSSFACE~! EDDIE TAPS!!! But no referee still!!! So BENOIT resorts to slapping him to revive him :lmao. Poor ref.

Benoit goes for a headbutt, but Eddie has the belt in his hand! The ref tries to remove it, so Eddie drags him in the way of the headbutt!

GORE! GORE! GORE!!! RHYNO JUST GORED THE HELL OUT OF BENOIT!!!

Eddie is as confused as the rest of us, but shrugs and hits a Frog Splash anyway! 3 count! Eddie is the first ever WWE US champ!!!

This match fucking RULES. Still :mark:.

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*


*Billy Gunn Vs Jamie Noble - Indecent Proposal Match*

:lmao if Noble wins, HE GETS TO FUCK TORRIE WILSON :lmao.

:lmao Noble brings out a briefcase of SEX TOYS :lmao.










The sad thing is, I already had that pic uploaded :lmao.

Taz to Cole: "HE'S GOT YOUR BRIEFCASE OMG!!!" :lmao

Billy Gunn does a STING from the... GAB 92 match I think? Where he STINGER SPASHES himself head first into the ring post like a chump. Except Billy Gunn doesn't lose the match from that. So that means... Gunn > Sting? 8*D

:lmao at Noble MISSING a dropkick, but Gunn selling it anyway .

Leg work from Noble. Love those big kicks he lands, but he keeps going for the same thing and Billy JUMPS out of the way with his other leg and hits the ONE AND ONLY.

Unique neckbreaker from Gunn looked pretty fecking awesome. Goes for the Fameasser but his leg prevents him from hitting it, so what does he do? RKO :lmao.

Noble has survived Billy's finisher from 2000-2001 AND an RKO. HE REALLY WANTS TO FUCK TORRIE!!!

DDT from the ropes!!! Noble has got this one in the bag... but Nidia puts Gunn's leg on the ropes! She don't want her man fucking another women! Torrie and Nidia both try to get involved on behalf of Gunn, but that injured leg comes back to haunt the ASS MAN... AND NOBLE WINS! NOBLE WINS! NOBLE WINS!!!

And then this whole thing ends with a FOUR WAY on SD :lmao. Solid match.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


DIS FUNAKI, SMUCKDAN NUM WAN ANNONCUR! He's interviewing the APA about their INVITIATIONAL BAR ROOM BRAWL MATCH! Funaki gets invited to the match! OMG THE EASTER BUNNY~!


*Bradshaw Vs Farooq Vs Shannon Moore Vs Doink the Clown Vs Brother Love Vs Nunzio Vs Matt Hardy Vs Chris Kanyon Vs Danny Basham Vs Doug Basham Vs The Easter Bunny Vs Sean O'Haire Vs John Hennigan Vs Orlando Jordan Vs Funaki Vs Los Conquistadores Vs The Brooklyn Brawler Vs Johnny Stamboli Vs Chuck Palumbo Vs Matt Cappotelli Vs Spanky - APA Invitational Bar Room Brawl*

:lmao at Spanky dancing on the bar to everyone's entrance music.

Used wiki to get the names of everyone involved so no idea how accurate it actually is .

JUST BECAUSE I LOOOOOOOVE YOU, DOESN'T MEAN I LIKE YOU! Brother Love rules. Everyone go watch his 6 hour shoot.

:lmao at Sean O'Haire laughing his arse off in the background. BROTHER LOVE TAKES OUT 2 JOBBERS WITH A BAR STOOL~!

Oh man this is just pure FUN. A bunch of guys beating the shit out of each other on a bar set. Broken glass, broken tables, broken stools, broken pool cues and BROKEN BODIES :mark:.

Funaki manages to last until the final four by sitting on a stool drinking the entire match . Bradshaw does to level him with a bar stool, but poor Funaki collapses in a drunken state .

Brother Love gets taken out by Bradshaw and despite the fact FAROOQ IS STOOD NEXT TO HIM... Bradshaw wins? Apparently Farooq was knocked out already? Oh well .

FUN :mark:.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


:lmao at Noble drooling all over Torrie's playboy magazine .


*Rey Mysterio & Billy Kidman Vs The World's Greatest Tag Team - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

LOL at Shelton taking Rey to the mat and basically trying to dry hump him .

Rey and Kidman try to use their flippy offence to keep Shelton and Hass from using their superior mat skills, but Hass and Benjamin are also the bigger guys in the match and can use some POWER combined with their mat skills to avoid some of those high flying moves and work over Rey Rey.

Hot tag to Kidman and we get a great sequence with Rey preventing the... that double team move WGTT do, allowing Kidman to counter and set up Hass in the ring for a 619. Rey gets in the ring, tries to run the ropes and Shelton puts a stop to the 619 in the same way Rey stopped him moments earlier!

Kidman takes a sick back bump off the ring post and WGTT are like sharks smelling blood in the water, going right after the back with some good back work :mark:.

Tag to Rey... but the referee doesn't see it!!! Ha. MOAR great back work :mark:.

POWERBOMB by Shelton!

Shelton goes for a second Powerbomb, but Kidman counters and makes the tag! :lmao at Rey doing a flip over the ropes and just kinda... kicking Shelton in the face. Think it was supposed to be a version of the West Coast Pop but the flip added into it meant he couldn't really land right .

WEST COAST POP FOR REALSIES THIS TIME~! But Kidman has the referee distracted by mistake and Shelton charges at Mysterio's head with his boot! 2 count only!!!

Hass is set up on the ropes, Rey runs at him, Kidman throws him in the air and Mysterio lands a Hurricanrana!!! 1...2... KICK OUT! Crowd chant "BULLSHIT" at it because fuck me that was CLOSE :mark:.

REVERSE DOOMSDAY DEVICE~! Benjamin got a blind tag while Rey was on Hass' shoulders going for a Hurricanrana and lands a clothesline! 3 count! WGTT retain!

Great match no doubt. Like it more than my last watch. Last time I thought it was more spotty than good tag wrestling, but there was plenty of good tag shit in this for me to :mark: and combine that with some great moves, it ends up being a match I like a lot. Better than the more highly praised NM 02 tag match.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*Sable Vs Stephanie McMahon - No Countout Cat Fight*

Remember when Stephanie ripped Sable's top off and her tits fell out? We all do. And they show it again before the match .

FAP FAP FAP STEPHANIE'S RING ATTIRE :mark:.

Sable stays on the floor posing rather than getting in the ring, so Stephanie charges after her instead! WEDGY~!

Sable ends up kicking the shit out of Stephanie, but almost gets rolled up for a 3 count after doing her Sable grind while stood over Miss McMahon.

STEPHANIE TRYING TO KILL SABLE WITH A STEEL CHAIR~! But the ref takes it away. Man, these two are really SNUG wih the offence lol. Real slaps and those ELBOWS look great too. These two are having a better executed match than most divas today who apparently train day in and day out and have matches multiple times a week :lmao.

SABLE'S TITS~! Bah, the damn referee gives her his t-shirt . And while he does that, fucking A-TRAIN RUNS OVER STEPHANIE! Sable wins!

Good match!

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*The Undertaker Vs John Cena*

:mark:

"EVERYBODY GOTTA LEARN THE HARD WAY" Man the build up for this was sweeeet. Now if only we could get that fucking WRESTLEMANIA MATCH with them...

Undertaker just sat on his bike at the top of the ramp, making Cena WAIT, playing those MIND GAMES with him :mark:. Then he leaves his bike at the top of the ramp and slowly WALKS down to Cena. Cena is gonna have to think about what's coming that little bit longer.

BITCH SLAP TO THE UNDERTAKER~! Cena ain't no smart guy.

THOSE FUCKING PUNCHES :mark:. Referee shits himself when he tries to get 'Taker out of the corner and Undertaker confronts him. God I love that spot in Undertaker matches :lmao.

BODY SHOTS~! Undertaker is picking apart those RIBS of Cena. Wants him to HURT.

The Undertaker is slowly picking apart Cena, beating some RESPECT into the rookie. PUNCH TO THE BACK OF THE HEAD~!

Cena is getting the beating of his life. Basically gets ZERO offence for the first 5 minutes or so. OLD SCHOOL~! CHOKESLAM~! Cena takes an AWESOME bump off the Chokeslam.

1...2... UNDERTAKER PULLS HIM UP. He ain't done with him yet. LAST RIDE! Cena counters into a DDT!

Cena knows the DDT won't be enough to put the Dead Man away, so while the ref is checking on him, Cena decides to expose one of the top turnbuckles! But he is having trouble taking if off, allowing Undertaker to recover and get back to beating the absolute SHIT out of the disrespectful little shit.

The turnbuckle finally gets exposed and Undertaker flies shoulder first into it! Now Cena can try and mount an offence, and he does it by targeting UNDERTAKER'S RIBS, repaying the Dead Man for what happened in the early part of the match! UNDERTAKER IS BLEEDING INTERNALLY!!!

Cena works the rib area nicely, with knees, kicks and big right hands. Undertaker keeps trying to make a comeback, but Cena continues to cut him off thanks to those injured ribs.

:mark: at how Undertaker sells the ribs on the leaping lariat, not even really jumping because it hurts too much :mark:. Crazy to think how one of the best sellers is also a guy who for most of his career has been a Dead Man/Zombie dude who no sells shit.

CHAIN TO UNDERTAKER'S RIBS~! CENA IS STALKING UNDERTAKER, SETTING UP FOR THE F-U!!! IT'S OVER!!!

NO! UNDERTAKER KICKS OUT!!! Cena is beyond pissed! And when you get pissed off, you make MISTAKES, and Cena makes one HUGE mistake by mounting Undertaker in the corner and getting a LAST RIDE! This one is done, but Cena was THIS FUCKING CLOSE to putting away the Dead Man!!!

Awesome, awesome match. The early beating on Cena is great, with Undertaker doing what he said he was gonna do; beat some respect out of Cena. Cena managed to capitalise one ONE mistake by Undertaker and that's all it took for him to bust those ribs up and make UNDERTAKER PAY. And just like Cena capitalised one ONE mistake, Undertaker did the same only Cena's was far worse and ended the match. A wonderful performence by Undertaker as both the BAD ASS guy destroying this young rookie, and the FIP selling the absolute shit out of his ribs. And Cena did a great job bumping around for the Dead Man, then looked great on offence and working over such a legend. Think I like this more than the Angle match from No Mercy tbh.

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*


*Vince McMahon Vs Zach Gowen*

Oh man, 2003 was the year of Vince being the BIGGEST PRICK EVER. He tried to kill Hogan, then he moves on to this match against a ONE LEGGED KID, and then he round out the year by beating the shit out of his own DAUGHTER and buries Undertaker alive :lmao.

:lmao Vince is fucking DOMINATING A KID WITH ONE LEG and he clearly states he's enjoying it :lmao. Vince is the greatest.

GOWEN MAKING A COMEBACK~! He's bouncing around on one leg and taking it to Mr McMahon!!!

But it ain't enough, and Vince is working over the leg of Gowen :lmao. WHAT A CUNT :lmao.

Vince is just pure EVIL and I'm loving every second of this :lmao. What a guy.

:lmao a "GOT LEGS?" sign :lmao.

HALF BOSTON CRAB~! Or is it a normal Boston Crab...? I dunno .

Gowen starts to... Gowen up or something, with some kicks to VINCE'S LEG, then begins a comeback by basically throwing himself leg first at Vince!!!

Now it's VINCE'S TURN to feel the pain! BALLS INTO THE RING POST!

MOONSAULT~!

Vince is in real trouble now, he's limping and hurting, so he decides to be an even BIGGER CUNT by bringing in a steel chair!!! The ref tries to take it away but ends up FLYING through the ropes to the floor. WHAT A REF BUMP!!

Gowen dropkicks the chair into McMahon's head! VINCE IS FUCKING GUSHING BLOOD!!! Gowen goes for a twisting Moonsault, but misses and Vince covers for a 3 count.

Fun match with lots of good in it... BUT it does drag a bit. Goes 14 minutes, only 2 minutes less than Cena/Undertaker. Probably should have been 10 minutes or so instead imo.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle Vs The Big Show - WWE Championship Match*

CHOKESLAM TO LESNAR IN A MINUTE~! BIG SHOW GONNA WIN THE TITLE!! Bah, Angle broke it up .

"HOLY ASS HAIR" :lmao WTF Taz?

Big Show is on fucking FIRE early on. He knows he has to keep Angle and Lesnar away from each other because they'll just double team him. He almost beat Lesnar in a minute and now he's mauling Angle while keeping Lesnar out of the ring too :mark:.

TIN FOIL TRASH CAN LIDS~! Big Show gets beaten to death with them or something :lmao. Angle and Lesnar try to double suplex Show, but he reverses it into a double suplex of his own! Show goes for a double chokeslam, but Lesnar and Angle double chokeslam BIG SHOW!!!

Lesnar goes for a cover, but Angle drags him off and now it's time for these two to GET IT ON!!! :mark:

F-5 TO ANGLE!!! He rolls out of the ring, leaving Show to take an F-5 too!!! Lesnar gonna retain!!! Lesnar gonna retain!!!

NO!!! ANGLE PULLS THE REFEREE OUT!

ANGLE IS BLEEDING~! From uhhh... I saw him get thrown BACK FIRST into the steel steps so fuck knows when he got busted open . I might have blinked and missed it.

:lmao at Taz talking about HOOKERS in the ring.

:lmao at Big Show trying to climb the ropes to superplex Lesnar.

LESNAR ESCAPES AND HITS A FUCKING RUNNING POWERBOMB TO BIG SHOW. A FUCKING RUNNING POWERBOMB. TO THE BIG SHOW. HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!

Angle being busted open puts him at a disadvantage so he brings in a steel chair to even up the odds, and decks everyone with it!!! Until Show kicks it back in his face .

SPANISH ANNOUNCE TABLE~! ANGLE SLAM TO BIG SHOW~! THE TABLE IS DEAD~!

With Big Show out of it, it's down to Angle and Lesnar, who is now also busted open! WM main event rematch coming up!!! :mark:

Man, Angle is fucking ROCKING Lesnar with those rights to the face! Underrated puncher back in the day was Kurt.

GOOD GOD. THAT RELEASE GERMAN SUPLEX. DAMN!!!

SLEEPER HOLD :mark:. Wait... what? Great. A sleeper/body scissors in a fucking TRIPLE THREAT MATCH. Way to suck the life out of the match, Brock.

BIG SHOW IS BACK!!! Double Chokeslam incoming! HE HITS IT!! Covers Lesnar, but he kicks out!!! Covers Angle, but Brock breaks it up!

Ha, great Ankle Lock spot. Angle is on fire again and looks UNSTOPPABLE! Angle Slam to Big Show! Angle Slam to Lesnar! 1...2..3!!! New Champion!!!

Great triple threat match. Yeah, still follows the usual formula of "2 guys in, 1 guy out", but they work it better than most matches tend to do, and other than the sleeper spot, there was always something going one without it feeling overly spotty.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 23.5*​





Spoiler: Armageddon 2004












*Armageddon 2004*

My 50th PPV Ramble (not counting RR's and WM's that I'd already done). And my 50th PPV Ramble could be one of the WORST shows I'll ever have to write about. Yey!


*RVD & Rey Mysterio Vs Rene Dupree & Kenzo Susuke - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

Literally had to wait until Rey made his entrance before I could type his name into the match title. I genuinely don't remember him and RVD ever being tag team champions :lmao.

Oh god didn't know who their opponents were going to be. Susuke might have been the WORST "new" guy in WWE during 2004. And Dupree can GTFO too.

Great start to this show :lmao.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Kurt Angle Vs Santa - Kurt Angle Invitational*

Angle has a match later, but apparently wanted to make Santa tap out first. Match ends in 25 seconds. I DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TIME TO "NO" IT :lmao.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Mike Mizanin Vs Daniel Puder - Dixie Dog Fight*

:lmao oh god no.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Hardcore Holly & Charlie Hass Vs The Basham Brothers*

:lmao

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*John Cena Vs Jesus - United States Championship No DQ, Falls Count Anywhere Match*

:lmao 

:lmao

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Miss Jackie Vs Dawn Marie - Special Referee Charlie Hass*

Fuck me sideways :lmao.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*The Big Show Vs Kurt Angle, Luther Reigns & mark Jindrak*

Well, I'll give this a watch. Show and Angle have had some fun matches in the past.

Show beats up Jindrak, and Angle tags in which is who Show REALLY wants. Show uses his power to shove him across the ring so Angle tags out like a pussy, leaving us with LUTHER REIGNS and Jindrak to work this match... urgh.

Show is knocked down so Angle decides to get him some of the giant... for about 10 seconds before tagging out AGAIN. Urgh.

More dull shit with those 2 other dudes beating down Show, then Angle tags in and... locks in a hold and sits in it.

Big Show makes a comeback, destroys Jindrak and then hits the WEAKEST Irish Whip ever and Reigns takes the worst bump over the ropes from it :lmao. Terrible :lmao

F-5 FROM THE BIG SHOW!!! Hits Jindrak with it and wins. SCREW YOU LESNAR :lmao.

Awful.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Spike Dudley Vs Funaki - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match*

2 of the least appealing Cruiserweights EVER in WWE...

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*JBL Vs The Undertaker Vs Eddie Guerrero Vs Booker T - WWE Championship Match*

A 4 way match for the title... that ISN'T built around 3 guys simply wanting a title match and being thrown together. They all have had beef with JBL in 2004 revolving around the WWE championship. He screwed them all out of wins and cheated his way to a longer reign, and now his ARMAGEDDON IS HERE.

Love JBL in the back before the match just staring at his title, before his "cabinet" all come in to shake his hand and "wish him luck"... basically knowing JBL has no chance in HELL of retaining. Added to the DRAMA of the whole thing :mark:.

:mark: @ JBL almost in TEARS as Undertaker makes his entrance. He has really gone into this match EXPECTING to lose his WWE title. Poor guy! 

Look at the TALENT in this too. And then Booker T. Urgh. Should have been Rey. Switch the two around. Rey in this match would have added AWESOMENESS to it, and Booker/RVD end up being tag partners in 05 I think? 

BELL RINGS~! JBL bails immediately. Booker and Eddie go over to the ropes to see what he's doing, while Undertaker decides to fuck up whoever is left in the ring.

:lmao JBL has Booker T pinned for about a 20 count, but the ref is too busy watching Undertaker and Eddie :lmao.

JBL IS TRAPPED~! He pinballs around, taking shots from all 3 guys. Undertaker goes for a cover on JBL, forcing Eddie and Booker to double team the Dead Man to try and take him out of the match because he is the biggest threat to everyone no doubt.

:lmao Booker T is terrible. He sees JBL covering Eddie... and he still decides to take his fucking time getting in the ring. He was battling Undertaker on the outside, he has no idea what happened. JBL could have hit a CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL. Eddie might have been DONE. And Booker T would have let JBL win then and there because he didn't want to rush getting in the fucking ring :lmao.

A minute later, Undertaker has JBL covered and what happens? EDDIE RUNS OVER TO BREAK IT UP. See, Eddie knows what he's doing. Then JBL covers Booker and Undertaker punches JBL in the face to break it up. UNDERTAKER knows what he's doing too. Someone PLEASE explain to me why Booker T got any kind of a push in 2004, resulting in him being in this match?

Everyone fights on the floor, then we end up with EDDIE VS UNDERTAKER ONE ON ONE IN THE RING :mark:. These two NEVER had a singles match together, in fact this and a 6 man tag in 2002 is the ONLY time they were in a match together (at the same time, technically they were both in the 03 RR lol).

Dammit, Booker T ruins it all. I guess the UNDERTAKER VS EDDIE part isn't until later on in the match .

:mark: Undertaker goes for Old School on Booker, Eddie runs over to stop it but Undertaker, while on the ropes, KICKS EDDIE IN THE HEAD and then goes for Old School still :mark:.

:mark: Eddie running away from Undertaker scared as fuck :mark:. I think it's time for EDDIE VS UNDERTAKER part of this match :mark:.

CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL TO UNDERTAKER ON THE FLOOR~! I guess it's not quite time yet then :lmao.

Instead of UNDERTAKER VS EDDIE we get... JBL Vs Booker T. Urgh.

Eddie senses that everyone is bored shitless with this crap so... LADDER~! Which he... leaves on the outside...

Booker T gets a ton of offense, lands the Axe Kick on Eddie... AND EDDIE KICKS OUT! THANK YOU EDDIE *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP*. If he didn't kick out, Booker T would have been champion. URGH.

:lmao JBL tries to powerbomb Booker T through the announce table, but Booker gets caught up in some wires and JBL and lift him too high :lmao. Elbow drop breaks the table though .

LAST RIDE TO JBL THROUGH THE OTHER ANNOUNCE TABLE. JBL knows how to take a fucking powerbomb through a table. Fuck you, Booker.

Wait... JBL through a table. Booker through a table. Undertaker left standing... Eddie in the ring... can it be? Is it time? :mark:

Eddie realises Undertaker is left standing, so he drops to the mat and plays dead to sucker in the Dead Man!!! :mark:

Tombstone, but Eddie is fine and escapes... only to run right into a fucking CHOKESLAM :mark:. THE UNDERTAKER IS GONNA DO IT! HE'S GONNA WIN! HE'S GONNA WIN! LAST RIDE SIGNAL :mark:.

Las Ride... but Eddie grabbed the WWE title belt! Smashes it in his face! Frog Splash! Another Frog Splash! Undertaker kicks out at 2 and SITS UP :mark:. Eddie is shitting himself, tries to escape but gets caught so... LOW BLOW!!!

Oh hey, the LADDER is finally coming into play now! Yey.

FROG SPLASH OFF THE LADDER~! 1...2... JBL DRAGS THE REFEREE OUT OF THE RING!

3 Amigos to JBL! Oh and NOW Booker T decides to break up a fucking count. What a cunt.

CHOKESLAM TO BOOKER~! CHOKESLAM TO EDDIE~! CHOKESLAM TO JBL~! The Dead Man has this one in the fucking BAG.

Undertaker goes for a Tombstone... but HEIDENREICH shows up and attacks Undertaker!

JBL manages to land a Clothesline from Hell (off camera :lmao) to Booker T and RETAINS HIS TITLE while Eddie is down and Heidenreich is beating down Undertaker.

Match... kinda drags mostly. Undertaker Vs Eddie stuff is a million stars, but everything else bar a few parts here and there is slow and dull.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*



*Overall CAL SCALE - -5*​





Spoiler: No Way Out 2004












*No Way Out 2004*

Sable and Torrie fap this PPV off. I mean START this PPV fap. Uhhh I mean... FAP FAP FAP.

Cole and Tazz just talk about how often they jerked to the Sable/Torrie Playboy mag.


*The Basham Brothers & Shaniqua Vs Rikishi & Scotty 2 Hotty - WWE Tag Team Championship Handicap Match*

Bashams suck. The shemale sucks. Scotty & Rikishi as a tag team in 2004 don't do it for me. I'll take the advice of... whoever gave me the advice, and I'm skipping every Basham Brothers match on 2004 PPV .

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Jamie Noble Vs Nidia - Jamie Noble Must Wrestle Blindfolded*

Oh man, I remember all this feud like it was yesterday. So much fun. 

Noble gets the blindfold on, Nidia slaps him and he loses his shit, almost getting DQ'd for taking the blindfold off :lmao.

Match is worked so damn well. Nidia moves around outside the ring then sneaks in to attack. She jumps up and down to make loud noises then sneak around somewhere else and kick him in the BUTT. She's just embarrassing him for all the shit he's put her through. Awesome. Jake would be proud .

:lmao at Nidia doing the old "going behind someone and fake humping them" schtick. Noble is going crazy. I'm loving every second of it.

Nidia practically dominates the whole thing, occasionally getting caught but always escaping. Then when Nidia climbs the ropes and the ref watches her, he sneaks a peak, throws her off the ropes and locks in a submission for the win.

Extremely fun and very well worked match. Didn't have the crowd interaction of the Jake/Martel match, but only one person was blindfolded here so they worked the match differently given the circumstances and honestly I think this is a BETTER match overall.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*The World's Greatest Tag Team Vs APA*

:mark: this looks awesome on paper. 

Typical start to an APA match; APA beat the fuck out of anyone in the ring with them. But BRADSHAW has himself an injured arm, and that allows the WGTT to prevent getting killed TOO MUCH .

So, with Bradshaw having a bad arm, you'd expect WGTT to go after it and shit, right? Wrong! They instead... work over FAROOQ'S ARM :lmao. WHAT THE FUCK? Bradshaw is already hurt. FUCK HIM UP. Ain't brain science ffs.

They work over Farooq's arm fine, but again it's the fucking WRONG PERSON lol.

Hot tag to Bradshaw and fuck me he's awesome coming off the hot tag. Murdered everyone.

CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL~! Charlie Hass is out. But he isn't the legal man!

SUPERKICK~! Shelton pins Bradshaw.

Fine match, didn't go very long though. Just think they worked it the wrong way. Should have been the guy with an INJURY getting worked over lol.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


GOLDBERG HAS ARRIVED. YEY. HE GETS TO SIT AND WATCH THE SHOW IN THE FRONT ROW FOR STORYLINE PURPOSES INSTEAD OF A FAN GETTING TO SIT THERE!!!

Paul Heyman comes out to address Goldberg. Lesnar shows up too. He provokes Goldberg fighting in the ring, forcing security to kick him out! Smart by Lesnar and Heyman to get rid of him now so Lesnar can defend his title in the main event without looking over his shoulder all the time. OR DOES HE? 

Unfortunately Goldberg beats the hell out of Lesnar, then HARDCORE HOLLY runs out to try and get him some :lmao.


*Hardcore Holly Vs Rhyno*

I... have no idea why this match is a thing :lmao. Oh, according to Cole, this whole feud began THREE NIGHTS AGO :lmao.

So this was a match. They wrestled. It was fine. GORE. ALABAMA SLAM. Holly wins.

Wow, absolutely NOTHING else to say on this one :lmao. It was fine but... I just didn't care.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


UNDERTAKER RETURNING AS THE DEAD MAN TEASE VIDEO :mark:.


*Rey Mysterio Vs Chavo Guerrero - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match*

Wow, I'm willingly going to watch a Chavo Jr match. I must be ill... .

Well I SAID willingly... I just waited FOUR DAYS before actually sitting through it :lmao.

Some Mexican boxer or something is out with Rey to counter the fact CHAVO CLASSIC is in Chavo Jr's corner.

Chavo tries to take Rey's mask off, so Rey kicks him in the fucking face, beats the shit out of him and sends him running to daddy. Literally :lmao. Chavo Jr is such a pussy!

They go back and forth for a little while, then Rey picks up some momentum, hits a 619, and goes for a West Coast Pop only to have Chavo Classic knock him off the arpon. WHILE THE BOXER IN REY'S CORNER JUST WATCHED :lmao. He at least knocks out Classic, but the referee sees it and sends him to the back. What a useless cameo :lmao.

:lmao and after all that, Rey is STILL controlling the match :lmao. Could they only afford to have the boxer on TV for so long? Because the entire thing was like Chavo's existence; pointless.

Chavo eventually gains control and wow I just stop caring. Completely.

Rey starts getting some hope spots in and that's when the match really picks up and gets good, because you know, REY IS FUCKING AWESOME. 

APRON DDT TO CHAVO~!

Rey keeps building momentum, manages to hit another 619 and then almost a West Coast Pop but not quite, as Chavo rolls through into a single leg boston crap, something he'd used on Rey earlier.

Chavo Classic wakes up finally, knocks Rey off the ropes and Chavo manages to get a quick pin and wins the CW title.

Rey was great in this, Chavo bored the fuck out of me. Solid match but not as good as I remembered it being.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Kurt Angle Vs The Big Show Vs John Cena - #1 Contendership for the WWE Championship at WrestleMania*

:lmao at the "tale of the tape" for this match. Career highlights are on there, with Show and Angle having multiple WWE title reigns and other accomplishments... and then Cena has "PHD in Thuganomics" as his ONLY highlight :lmao.










So the match starts and Big Show tells Cena to stay back because he wants KURT ANGLE alone. So Cena just relaxes and laughs as Angle gets thrown around by the giant :lmao. Angle sees this and challenges Cena to take on the big man on his own. Same results, with Angle laughing at Cena this time :lmao. Angle and Cena get in each other's face over it and... beat the shit out of each other :lmao. Fun start to the match tbh. Better than them automatically just going after Big Show together.

ANGLE TRIES TO HUMP BIG SHOW~!










:lmao.

Whole match so far has been Big Show dominating one man at a time while the other sits on the outside waiting for his turn to come back into the match lol. The ever exciting TRIPLE THREAT FORMULA~!

Fucks sake Cena. SELL. He has a fucked knee. Happened at the RR when Show eliminated him. He has a knee strap on it. Show works it over. So what does Cena do on his comeback? DROPKICK. TOP ROPE BIONIC ELBOW. A FUCKING F-U TO THE 500LB BIG SHOW. Well I guess SOMEONE needed to no sell shit while Angle was, ironically, selling on the floor...

FINISHERS~! KICK OUTS~! MAKING SUBMISSION HOLDS LOOK USELESS~!

At least throughout all of this, Big Show CONTINUES to go after Cena's injured leg. Someone has to remind the guy it's hurt :side:.

In fact it's Show's leg work that comes into play at the end of the match. He slams Cena knee first into the turnbuckle, then Angle shows up from behind, Angle Slam's Show over the ropes and applies the Ankle Lock to Cena and CENA TAPS OUT. CENA TAPS OUT.

Match isn't BAD, it's just average. Show was the absolute WORKHORSE of this match. Was rare we got Cena Vs Angle (save that for next year I guess lol...), so Show worked 90% of the match and was the one on top form with attacking injured body parts and being all GIANT-Y on everyone. Props to him. Angle... honestly wasn't there much either :lmao. Cena was the main problem as he took the biggest beating and was shoddy as fuck with his leg selling.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Brock Lesnar Vs Eddie Guerrero - WWE Championship Match*

:mark:

Been looking forward to this. Picked this PPV as my next Ramble because after watching WM and seeing Bryan overcoming the odds and winning the WWE Championship, I wanted to watch EDDIE do the same from 10 years earlier. Plus I'd already done my WM XX review so seeing Benoit do it was out of the question .

God I still love the story going into this match. I was already a big Eddie fan long before he became the most popular wrestler on the planet, and after knowing everything he'd been through to get back to WWE in 2002, it was impossible for anyone to NOT feel for Eddie and want him to realise his dream of becoming WWE Champion (unless they are a heartless cunt and if so FUCK YOU).

Lesnar was the PERFECT opponent for Eddie at this time too. It's like LESNAR is a representative of all of Eddie's demons, and Eddie has to go through this force that many people believe to be UNSTOPPABLE. And that's how Eddie felt in real life at one point with his demons. So now he gets to redeem himself once more by beating LESNAR and proving he can once again overcome those DEMONS.

Brock is confident as FUCK going into this. He ties up with Eddie and shoves him around, screaming YOU AIN'T NUFFIN at him, all the while Eddie keeps smiling and coming back at the BEAST.

Eddie keeps trying to fight back but Lesnar's POWER is a real game changer. Fuck me at that SNAP SUPLEX. Eddie bounces half way across the ring on impact.

FUCKING JEBUS. Eddie dives off the ropes to hit a hurricanrana and Lesnar catches him but DROPS HIM ON HIS HEAD like a powerbomb, before lifting him back up and SWINGING HIM AROUND then letting go and sending him halfway across the ring once again.

OVERHEAD BELLY TO BELLY SUPLEXES :mark:.

RUNNING KNEE TO THE FUCKING FACE while Eddie is in the corner. Lesnar is DOMINATING.

But Eddie is STILL fighting back. He keeps getting some shots in on Lesnar, but right now it isn't enough.

Eddie catches Lesnar! Knocks him down and drags him over to the ring post to wrap his legs around it! Lesnar tries his best to stop him, but takes a couple of shots to the knee before managing to turn it on Eddie and smash his face into the post .

MUSCLE BUSTER. Only unlike Samoa Joe, Lesnar has visible muscles 8*D.

FUCK ME SIDEWAYS. Lesnar presses Eddie over his head like he was fucking NOTHING. I mean DAMN, we've seen a lot of POWER by wrestlers over the years but fuck me, I don't think I've ever seen anyone lift someone in the air, that high too, with anywhere near the ease of Lesnar there.

Eddie escapes it and goes RIGHT FOR THE KNEE that he managed to do some minor damage to earlier, but before he can really go to work on the BEAST, Lesnar comes back with a Lariat that would make Stan Hansen proud.

All of Lesnar's attacks are working over the back and mid-section of Latino Heat. And it all looks awesome too. Overhead belly to bellys, shoulders to the gut, shoulders to the back etc.

Lesnar goes for another running knee to the face in the corner, but Eddie moves and Lesnar goes KNEE FIRST into the turnbuckle and crashes to the floor!!! PLANCHA~! Eddie might have finally found THE opening he needed!!! Back in the ring he goes right for the knee once again! The Beast is in trouble! Latino Heat is building momentum!!!

Aaaannnd then the POWER once again cuts Eddie off, but Brock is hurting now and can't get back on Eddie as much as he'd like. 

Brock is still too cocky, standing over Eddie talking trash, and in similar fashion to what Undertaker does in this position, Eddie suckers Lesnar in and applies a submission! And of course, it's to the BAD KNEE :mark:.

TILT-A-WHIRL INTO A HEADSCISSORS~! LATINO HEAT IS ON FIRE!!!

:lmao at Cole when Eddie applies a Figure Four. "BROCK HAS TAPPED OUT TO A SUBMISSION HOLD BEFORE, CAN HE DO IT AGAIN?" What else would he fucking tap out to, you mong? OMG LESNAR JUST TAPPED OUT TO SLAP TO THE FACE~!

Eddie is fucking RELENTLESS with his attack on Lesnar's knee :mark:. He can't stand toe to toe with Brock, so he's taking it to the mat where, with an injured knee to help him, he can have a REAL chance of winning even against an accomplished amateur wrestler like Brock.

As usual Brocks POWER comes into play and cuts off Eddie, but Brock is really feeling all that leg work, and isn't as explosive as before, taking his time between moves and unable to truly capitalise on his own offence. 

DIE EDDIE. JUST DIE! Man, a powerful moment in the match as Lesnar, now BLEEDING, is STILL unable to keep Eddie down. Like his battle against drug and alcohol addiction, Eddie IS NOT GIVING UP :mark:.

The fans begin to really get behind Eddie, helping him escape the grasp of BROCK and mount what could be his LAST STAND against the WWE Champion :mark:.

THREE AMIGOS~! LATINO HEAT IS FIRED UP ONCE AGAIN~! Frog Splash time baby!!!

And Lesnar moves. Eddie crashes and BURNS .

F-5~! But the referee gets caught by Eddie's legs on the way round! Eddie is down but the referee is OUT! It's almost like a higher power is giving Eddie another chance, just like in real life!!!

Lesnar brings the title into the ring. The referee is down, and LESNAR is pissed. He's been pissed for most of this match. He expected to run through Eddie like he was nothing, but Eddie just won't DIE.

Speaking of running through someone... GOLDBERG SPEARS THE HELL OUT OF LESNAR!!!

Eddie covers!

1...

2...

LESNAR KICKS OUT~!

And then it happens. Eddie looks down and sees the WWE title belt that LESNAR brought into the match, and he just grins from ear to ear . LIE, CHEAT AND STEAL~!

F-5 countered into a DDT... RIGHT ON THE BELT~! Sort of. That's the intention anyway haha. Either way... LESNAR IS DOWN!!!

FROG SPLASH~! THE COVER!

1...

2...

3!!! YES! EDDIE GUERRERO IS CHAMPION!!! :mark:

Eddie had a drug and alcohol addiction. He lost his job. He lost his family. He almost lost his life multiple times. But he came BACK. He overcame his demons. He got his family back. He got his job back. And now he beat BROCK LESNAR and won the WWE CHAMPIONSHIP! Still an emotional match to watch .

Incredible. Just fucking INCREDIBLE. 

*Rating: ****3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 8*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 12.5*​





Spoiler: Unforgiven 2004












*Unforgiven 2004*

The beginning of Orton Vs HHH feud. That would last forever. And suck the entire time outside of two matches. Yey...


*Ric Flair & Batista Vs Chris Benoit & William Regal*

Well FUCK ME this sounds awesome on paper. I did see this not too long ago, because it sounded AWESOME ON PAPER. Unfortunately I don't remember ANTYHING about it. Guess we'll have to wait and see if that's a good thing or not .

Batista comes out of the box throwing punches, so Benoit avoids them and counters into a Crossface attempt! LOL, fuck you Batista. Batista comes back trying to use his power, so Benoit counters into a dragon screw leg whip! Ha. TAG TO REGAL :mark:. 

Regal being all BOSSY and throwing Batista around with a great suplex. Man oh man, add Finlay to this mix and you'd have the GOAT 3 man team. They would have been perfect to go up against EVOLUTION while HHH was busy with someone else over the title or something (though obviously that's fucked at this point because Orton is the guy keeping HHH busy lol).

FLAIR AND BENOIT :mark:. CHOPS~!

Regal tagged in :mark:. ELBOING THE FUCK OUT OF FLAIR :mark:.

GOAT FLAIR SPOT EVER :mark:.










Flair tries to get back into things with a thumb to the eye and shots to the knee, but REGAL is too MANLY to drop to just that.

MOAR AWESOME FLAIR :mark:. Benoit chops him so hard he keeps trying to drop down forward, but Benoit holds him up and chops him some more :mark:.

:lmao ENZIGURI to Flair, and it sends him over to Batista for a tag, but he just stands there and does ANOTHER Flair Flop :lmao. This is already the greatest thing ever.

Regal and Benoit are OWNING this tag match so far. Tons of quick tags, great wrestling, and hard CHOPS.

Then the power of Batista comes into play finally for Evolution, and we get the awesome mix of power from Batista and wrestling/experience/CHEATING from the Nature Boy :mark:. And Regal is the FIP too :mark:. Benoit would probably be BETTER, but I'm all for Regal being in the match the longest haha. Plus, you know, Regal is still fucking AWESOME.

Screw what I just said, I'm not even sure Benoit would have been better, because Regal is killing it. He's awesome at FACES, and I love how he screams in pain whenever Flair chop blocks his knee.

Poor Regal gets mauled, then a hot tag to Benoit and we get more Benoit Vs Flair :mark:. Insane seeing OLD MAN FLAIR taking MULTIPLE GERMAN SUPLEXES. I love crazy old man Flair. Better than 90's Flair.

DIVING HEADBUTT~! SHARPSHOOTER ATTEMPT~! THUMB TO THE EYE~! CROSSFACE~!

:mark: Batista just picking Benoit up out of the Crossface while he's got it locked in on Flair was awesome. Now THAT is how you break up a fucking submission!!!

:lmao Regal still being awesome on the outside, sending Batista into the ring post WHICH ONLY MAKES HIM MAD. Batista charges at Regal for a clotheslines, Regal ducks and Batista flies into the crowd :lmao.

CROSSFACE TO FLAIR~! TAP OUT~! REGAL AND FLAIR ARE OFFICIALLY THE GREATEST TAG TEAM EVER!!!

This was great. Truly. So much damn fun with some great quality to boot. Even Batista didn't drag this down at any point. True, Flair worked most of the match, but yeah. All awesome.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


Christian backstage with his lover. And Trish too. Ha. Get it? HE AND TYSON ARE GAY. Is what I was getting it. I'M FUNNY.


*Victoria Vs Trish Stratus - WWE Women's Championship*

Ummm... no. They did some great stuff in 2002, but I don't have much faith in them in 2004, especially with Trish as the heel and Victoria no longer being a crazy mental chick.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


So after the match, Tomko gets hold of Victoria, but some dude in drag shows up and stops him. Tomko decides to call him out. I genuinely don't fucking remember ANY of this :lmao. I'm interested to see who it is :lmao. THEY MAKE IT A MATCH TOO. BEFORE WE FIND OUT WHO IT IS :lmao. It's Steven Richards. LOL.


*Tomko Vs Steven Richards*

I am not watching this.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Chris Jericho Vs Christian - Intercontinental Championship Ladder Match*

Don't remember this match at all. I LOVE their WM match... but not sure if adding a ladder to the mix is gonna keep up the awesomeness.

:lmao this was made into a ladder match because Christian turned down a cage match as the last time he had a cage match with Jericho, he injured his back and was out for a few months. THAT WON'T HAPPEN IN A LADDER MATCH THOUGH!!! :lmao

We get a nice WRESTLING match early on between these two, making me remember why I adore their WM match so much, before a ladder comes into play. 

COME ON, YOU ASS CLOWN~!

A ladder match... where they fight in the crowd! I can only assume Christian wants to take him out there so Jericho would have to both recover and THEN make his way back to the ring in order to prevent Christian from climbing a ladder and winning.

But nope, Christian actually brings Jericho back, then loses control :lmao. POINTLESS~!

:mark: sweeeet sequence on the outside ending in an UNPRETTIER ON THE FLOOR :mark:. Jericho is DEAD.

Christian realises this and goes for a ladder. COME ON CHRISTIAN!!!!

CHRISTIAN HAS THE BELT IN HIS HAND!!! Bah, Jericho is back up. Christian decides to punish him for being a cunt and getting up from his finisher on the floor. Which results in Christian going face first into a ladder. DAMMIT JERICHO. 

:mark: Jericho goes face first into the ladder. LETS GO CHRISTIAN *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP*.

Lol, almost ALL of the ladder spots in this match so far have just been people running into the ladder (in different ways) face first. And I LOVE IT. Makes a change from people having to rely on dumb spots off the top of a ladder or whatever. I bet they watched Hardy/RVD from SS 01 and based this match on what NOT to do in a ladder match. Because that one is the WORST ladder match ever. I mean so fucking bad you have to be brain dead to think it's anything beyond the worst thing ever. And ugly too. Bet fans of that are UGLY. Probably an awful taste in music too.

Ooooo, Jericho takes on NASTY bump into a ladder in the corner and gets his leg all caught up and shit. He can barely even STAND UP, allowing Christian to climb the ladder... but just as he gets to the top, Jericho taunts him! Christian takes exception to that and comes back down to dish out some more punishment, but Jericho suckered him in!!! BULLDOG ONTO THE LADDER~!

LIONSAULT ON A LADDER~! CHRISTIAN MOVED~! HA~!

CHRISTIAN HAS THE BELT~! But Jericho takes the ladder out from under him, leaving Captain Charisma hanging!!! LADDER TO THE GUT~! CHRISTIAN CRASHES DOWN WITHOUT THE TITLE!

Walls of Jericho on the ladder, but it looks kinda sucky compared to the Benoit 01 match. Jericho lets go, reaches for the belt and Christian pulls the ladder out from under him this time and Jericho falls like a fucking rock and smashes his lower back on the side of the ladder. FUCKING OUCH.

First really MAJOR bump off the ladder comes with Jericho smashing Christian face first off the top of the ladder to the mat, and that allows Jericho to climb back up and win the match!

Overall I do like a LOT in this match... however at the same time is does feel like it drags (dead crowd didn't help), and they just seem to stay in one gear. Similar I guess to the HHH/Benoit Iron Man earlier in the year. They do some good stuff but never go into that higher gear to make it more memorable or better.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


LITA COMING OUT OF KANE'S LOCKER ROOM. WHAT A SLUT. She's rooting for Shawn in the match against her "husband" Kane lol.


*Kane Vs Shawn Michaels - No DQ Match*

Kane took out HBK my smashing his throat or something, so LITA (FAP? FAP!), as Kane's unwilling wife, signed HBK's name on an open contract to face Kane tonight hoping that HBK would send Kane TO HELL.

UPPERCUT TO THE THROAT :mark:. If Kane works over Shawn's throat in this match I'll be happy.

Shawn starts to brawl with Kane and... it's not great . He does this thing where he hits Kane once, then just kinda moves around before hitting him again, all the while Kane just stands there waiting for the next shot.

KANE USES PREGNANT LITA AS A SHIELD~!

:lmao the evil announce table is at it again. Press slam to Shawn onto it and IT DOESN'T BREAK. So Kane suplexes him through it instead. I watch too much Botchamania because all I can picture now is the table lauging in some weird accent :lmao.

Bah, Kane is being dull as shit in control. At least CHOKE Shawn or something to target the throat. He'll do something every now and then that goes after the throat, then he'll go to something else like a fucking chin lock. And I mean a literally chin lock. He grabs HIS CHIN with one hand and the top of his head with the other. Looks terrible :lmao.

Shawn is bleeding. I have no idea how or when that even happened. 

HBK comeback. Stuff. Wow this isn't good at all. I'm BORED. Never a good sign lol.

Worst Sweet Chin Music ever, and I think the pun was botched too tbh.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*La Resistance Vs Tajiri & Rhyno - World Tag Team Championship Match*

I think I was told to avoid all La Resistance matches from this year too. But this has TAJIRI in it. I AM CONFUSED.

Fuck it. NOOOOO.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Randy Orton Vs Triple H - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Maybe this will end up like RR 05, and I'll be super surprised by how awesome it actually is. That could totally happen, right? RIGHT?

Oh god 30 minutes left on the show. DON'T MAKE ME WATCH IT .

They lock up, the push each other, the slap each other. Couple of fucking bitches in this match apparently... .

Lawler goes on a tirade on how Orton is inexperienced and shit because he takes the match to the outside and risks getting counted out. WHICH WOULD MEAN HE RETAINS THE FUCKING TITLE. Something TRIPLE H would approve of :lmao.

Leg work. HHH does some leg work.

17 minutes left? Fuck.

Orton tries to make a comeback and... HHH is bleeding. The fuck? TWICE IN ONE SHOW and I don't even notice how or when someone BLEEDS? LOL.

Oh look HHH trying to be Ric Flair. 

Oh look, ref bump. Followed by Evolution interference. And a low blow.

THE COACH runs down and puts on a referee shirt. Makes a 2 count and gets knocked out :lmao. Best part of this match so far.

RKO TO THE COACH~!

Fuck me how long is this "Batista and Flair run into the ring and get knocked out the come back in again" gonna last?

CHAIR TO ORTON. PEDIGREE ON THE CHAIR. Thank fuck it's over. HHH wins. Whatever.

God this is AWFUL. I mean AWFUL.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 3*​



And no sense posting JD 04 again . WM and RR's can be found on my site.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well fuck, I have to spread rep before I give you some. Not like you need it anyway tho  Regardless, much appreciated, thanks a lot Cal.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm just onto that Brock/Cena Backlash match now, after just seeing a pretty darn good Brock/Albert match on SD, where Cena gave Brock the "Death Valley Driver' 

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----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

In Your House IV

*Fatu vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley *
This was pretty solid. Fatu has an early spurt of offense but he ends up getting his neck caught in the ropes (a lot like how Foley lost his ear). I was happy to see that when Triple H started getting in his offense he did focused on the injury. It was little things like an uppercut to the throat, that I really appreciated. Fatu’s comeback was kind of weak since he got in a handful of moves before missing on a top rope move and eating the Pedigree. I was really impressed with how over the Pedigree was. Triple H was getting Triple H pops (not Hunter Hearst Helmsley pops) when he would go for it. Anyway it was solid enough as it told a story and wasn’t sloppy. There’s just nothing spectacular about it.
***¼*



_Tag Team Championship Match:_
*Razor Ramon and The 1-2-3 Kid vs. The Smoking Gunns(c)*
Solid match. The pacing was pretty good but what I really liked was that both teams were resorting to some minor heel tactics during the match. I loved the crowd reacting to the antics as well. Kid was sort of in an underdog role so that worked really well and the ending was pretty clever as it furthered the story of the strained relationship between Kid and Ramon. I enjoyed it and it was fun but that’s about it.
***1/2* 


*Goldust vs. Marty Jannetty *
I really didn’t like this very much. It was weird seeing such an early Goldust match because I really didn’t feel like Dustin Rhodes was feeling the character just yet. Normally I feel like Goldust is Goldust but this time it felt like Dustin Rhodes dressed up as Goldust. That makes sense right? He didn’t quite have the mannerisms down and did some weird things. Like the way he argued with the ref was not something I feel like Goldust would do. The match itself was pretty boring as it was just an extended squash really. Jannetty got in almost no offense and when he did it was pretty unspectacular. Goldust was also playing more of an old school heel and less of a weirdo heel so his extended headlocks didn’t do much for me. I’m just glad that it got better with him because this was a really unimpressive PPV debut.
**½ *



*King Mabel w/Mo vs. Yokozuna w/Jim Cornette and Mr. Fuji* 
I’m actually impressed with how bad this match was. Big men fighting each other can be fun but I think they were just too big here. Obviously it was slow paced and didn’t last long but they just didn’t do much of anything in the ring. A few clotheslines, a missed elbow or leg drop and then it was over. The ending was also horrible as it appeared Yokozuna was just threw himself out of the ring and that led to a count out. There’s just nothing positive that I can say about this.
*DUD*



_Intercontinental Championship Match:_
*Dead Douglas(c) vs. Razor Ramon*
We get more of the same between these two were Ramon just beats the shit out Douglas for a majority of the match. I wish they didn’t work like this because when things are more evenly balanced things were pretty good between them. But 75% of the match was just really boring as Ramon was in control the entire time and it wasn’t like he was working as a fiery face. He was working the match like he was a heel working a control segment. I was almost happy when Douglas reversed the Razor’s Edge and got in some offense. This ass kicking was at least entertaining at first because of the storyline. Shawn Michaels was the champion and he had to to forfeit the title and it was awarded to Douglas. So everyone was pretty annoyed that the heel was just handed the title. But I quickly got tired of Ramon just slowly picking him apart and beating him up. I really hope I don’t have to watch these two wrestle again unless it’s a match where Hall is more willing to let Douglas get some offense in.
**½* 



_WWF Championship Match:_
*Big Daddy Cool Diesel(c) vs. The British Bulldog w/Jim Cornette *
They were so close to having a great match. I still really liked it but there are some things that I wish they could have done that would have made this so much better. Nash offense to start the match was pretty solid and eventually loses control of the match when he has altercation with Bret Hart at ringside that allowed Bulldog to hit him with a chop block. So what we then had was a control segment by the Bulldog where he focused on Nash’s leg. Now the offense looked good for the most part (but the bad stuff looked really bad) because Nash’s legs are just so long and it makes the offense look so believable. But my first big problem with the match comes during this control segment. For such a long time he worked the leg, which is fine, but he never gave Nash the chance to sell the leg. Eventually when Nash started getting in offense he sold the leg and he did it perfectly but I just wish he was doing that during the control segment so we could have seen the impact of all the leg work. The other problem I had was that Bulldog didn’t get the chance to show off how strong he was. From the previous PPV we saw that he could do all sorts of power moves but he didn’t get the chance to showcase the fact that he could left Nash. I realize his offense was focused but I feel like they could incorporated his strength in a little more. 

Now that I got the flaws out of the way I still liked this. Nash’s selling of the leg was fantastic, Bret at ringside added a lot to the match, Cornette attacking Nash was fun, and both guys worked smartly. The closing stretch before the DQ finish was also good. It just sucks that instead of a great math that they easily could have had they just had a good one.
****¼ *​
Overall not a very good show. I don’t think there’s a match that I would tell anyone to go out of their way to see.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just a quick question, but is it just me who always wants one big marquee match at WrestleMania? Even between 'part timers', i'm all for the new generation and putting them over and building for the future, but I still want that one big extravagant match at the supposed biggest PPV of the year.

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----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

No, you're not alone. I want *bug* marquee matches at WM too 

Okay, just done reading all the rambles, and my favorite is easily Armageddon 04's. Kinda hilarious. How many NO's was that? :lmao (I still think that DUD's should be rated -1 too in the Cal Scale though :side


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> Just a quick question, but is it just me who always wants one bug marquee match at WrestleMania? Even between 'part timers', i'm all for the new generation and putting them over and building for the future, but I still want that one bug extravagant match at the supposed biggest PPV of the year.


Not at all. I'm not interested in WM if it lacks at least one marquee match that sets it apart from the rest - part timers or not. Every year we could rely on Taker but now he's likely done, I don't know what they'll do.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank goodness for the tag team title match on that show. You're the first person I've seen not call Diesel/Bulldog an all-time horrible match. I think I prefer the divas battle royal on Main Event this past week over it. I know Vince McMahon loathes that match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of Vince McMahon, I think I wanna rewatch Vince/Stephanie I Quit for some reason. :lol
I just remember it being a big 21-1 on the WTF Scale (see what I did there, Cal? :taker), so you never know.


----------



## stevobo (Feb 16, 2007)

Bought myself WWE Best PPV matches of 2013 today, and after watching the first 3 matches I'm very pleased I picked this DVD.

Kinda fell in and out of love with wrestling over the last couple years and had only seen Taker/Punk out of these matches I watched, but recently got myself right back into wrestling.

Rock/Punk Rumble - ***1/4
Cena/Ryback/Sheamus vs Shield - ***
Taker/Punk Mania - ****1/2

Can't wait to watch the rest of it especially Punk/Lesnar and Bryan/Cena from SSlam.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thank that is the highest ever rating I've seen for Rock/Punk tbh. Gets a near DUD from most people. I hated it on first watch and hated it was the match where Punk had to drop the belt.

I havn't watched it since lol.

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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

****1/4 for Punk/Rock but only *** for that Shield tag? :|


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Punk/Rock RR: ***1/4
Sheild vs Sheamus/Ryback/Cena: ****
Taker/Punk WM: ****1/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

After first watch, I had Shield vs Super Friends at ****1/4. I'm looking forward to re watching it when I go back to watch some Shield stuff. 

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----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Shield really were a godsend for fans of real WRESTLING in 2013. I've seen probably 90% of their TV matches, and I don't think there is a single 1 of their tags I'd give lower than ***. They really raised the bar for everyone as far as match quality goes. Just think about if you were in the main event and you knew you had to follow one of the Shields 6-man tags? I wonder if Orton finally started kicking it into gear by the end of 2013 because he was tired of having the show stolen from him by a bunch of rookies every single night?


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

Funnily enough I watched these earlier too:

Punk V Rock: **3/4
Shield V SuperFriends: ****
Taker V Punk: ****1/2 Went up this watch by half a star because I loved it but probably a tad genorous


----------



## stevobo (Feb 16, 2007)

Meant to put Punk/Rock at ***1/4 oops.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk V Rock RR- ***
Punk vs. Rock EC- ***1/4
Shield V SuperFriends: ***1/2
Taker V Punk: ****3/4

I think I'm the only one that never LOVED Shield/Superfriends. Great match, but The Shield have had LOADS better.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Punk V Rock RR- ***
> Punk vs. Rock EC- ***1/4
> Shield V SuperFriends: ***1/2
> Taker V Punk: ****3/4
> ...



Oh definitely. I gave Shield/Super Friends ***3/4 on last watch. I love it, but they have had a good 6-7 matches atleast that I like more. TLC vs Hell No Ryback, EC vs Wyatt's, BG vs Rhodes Bros, Raw vs Hell No Kofi, Raw vs Rhodes Bros (night after BG), Shield/Wyatt's III, and maybe 1 or 2 others I'm forgetting, where all better IMO. Like I said, the amount of quality the Shield have delivered in a little over a year is staggering. Still waiting for them to have a BAD match, as I don't think they have yet to date. Doubtful they ever will as a unit.

For an underrated, less talked about Shield match, check their Pre-Show match with the Usos. Very very good, best Usos match I've seen for sure.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That pre-show match was so damn good. Lit that crowd on fire and put the Usos over like crazy. That too might be the best Usos match I've ever seen, and I'm probably the biggest Uso fan in this thread. Tis a shame that the Paramore fan won't admit to its greatness. I still love Shield/Superfriends though. One of Cena's best FIP segments in his career. Watching it live, I remember my heart beating so much when Ryback and Cena were about to deliver their finishers to The Shield, but then :reigns


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Thank goodness for the tag team title match on that show. You're the first person I've seen not call Diesel/Bulldog an all-time horrible match. I think I prefer the divas battle royal on Main Event this past week over it. I know Vince McMahon loathes that match.


I don't see how it was horrible in the slightest. Smart offense and great selling. Nash hopping out of the ring and grimacing in pain when he landed was fantastic. There were some weak points in the match but overall I liked it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, was gonna dive right into my GAB 04 ramble after watching JD earlier today... but I guess it was a SIGN FROM JEBUS that my download didn't work properly! While I download a new version, onto Backlash 04! Haven't sat through the main event in full since maybe... 2007ish. It's always bored me too much to continue on any time I've attempted it. This time though I'm watching it NO MATTER WHAT.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Well, was gonna dive right into my GAB 04 ramble after watching JD earlier today... but I guess it was a SIGN FROM JEBUS that my download didn't work properly! While I download a new version, onto Backlash 04! Haven't sat through the main event in full since maybe... 2007ish. It's always bored me too much to continue on any time I've attempted it. This time though I'm watching it NO MATTER WHAT.



Cal I meant to ask you, after watching JD today, which chair shot was more brutal: the shot JBL gives Eddie at JD 2004, or the one Taker gives HBK in the original HiaC match? Has there been one worse than those two? Those two were always the ones that come to mind for most wicked chair shot of all time. Each time I watch one of them, I'll say "that's it, that's the worst chair shot ever" then I'll watch the other and say "no, this is definitely worse" and it just goes back and forth and back and forth. So can you weigh in? Which was worse, and is there one worse than those two?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Think I'd go with the Eddie/JBL one, though it could be because it's fresh on my mind.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Backlash 2004. :mark:

Speaking of brutal chair shots, you can't overlook the back to back shots Brock takes from the Hardys. Undertaker also gave that murderous chair shot to Brock at Unforgiven that actually bent the chair in half. And definitely the shot he gave to Mr. Kennedy at Survivor Series 2006. Ouch @ that one. Another one that never gets brought up is the one Benoit gives to Jericho at King of the Ring 2001. The force behind that looks like it legit knocked Jericho out for a bit.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The chairshot that Mikey Whipreck gave Cactus Jack in the match against Shane Douglas from ECW Cyberslam 96 is another brutal one. I cringe every time I see it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Backlash 2004. :mark:
> 
> Speaking of brutal chair shots, you can't overlook the back to back shots Brock takes from the Hardys. Undertaker also gave that murderous chair shot to Brock at Unforgiven that actually bent the chair in half. And definitely the shot he gave to Mr. Kennedy at Survivor Series 2006. Ouch @ that one. Another one that never gets brought up is the one Benoit gives to Jericho at King of the Ring 2001. The force behind that looks like it legit knocked Jericho out for a bit.




Good call on the Hardys. The one Jeff brings at Brock in particular, where he hits him with that top part, Jesus. Brock doesn't even flinch and that shot looked vicious enough to take most grown men to their knees.

I've just never heard one as LOUD as the one JBL gives Eddie. It's loud enough that the crowd doesn't even pop for it, you just here an "ohhh" followed by silence.....and then a massive "OHHHHHH" when the camera pans to Eddies head and there is just a water fall of blood pouring out of his forehead. The Muta Scale shouldn't even be called the Muta Scale, it's the Eddie scale and no one is ever topping the bloodshed in that match.

I understand why they don't allow chair shots to the head anymore. With all the stuff we've learned about brain trauma, it wouldn't be moral for Vince to allow. That said, I wish they could specially gimmick some chairs, make them super thin in the middle or something, so that it could be safe to do. Because at times it just looks painfully obvious that guys are going out of their way to not hit someone in the head. And of course a little color for some big matches in feuds that call for it wouldn't hurt. Heyman and Austin talked about that on their podcast and I have to agree. A Cell match isn't a HELL IN A CELL match without some blood.

What PPV did Orton and RVD have that bad ass match on? I think it was around 03' or 04'. I feel like watching their Raw match and I wanna see the PPV match that followed.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They had a match at Armageddon 03, which I think was before the Raw match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> They had a match at Armageddon 03, which I think was before the Raw match.



Aye that's it, and yes it would have been before the Raw match as that match took place in January of 04'. Alrighty off to watch those matches thanks mate.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> They had a match at Armageddon 03, which I think was before the Raw match.


Indeed. Raw match took place nearly a month later for some odd reason, on 12/1/04.

Speaking of that match, you need to check it out specially since you enjoyed Armageddon a lot. I think they are on par and Raw match might be even better.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The RVD/Orton match on RAW 04 is awesome 

Currently one match into my first 2001 review, No way out, doubt I'll get through the show tonight though


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> The RVD/Orton match on RAW 04 is awesome
> 
> Currently one match into my first 2001 review, No way out, doubt I'll get through the show tonight though


Interested to see your take on Austin/Hunter 3SOH. I gave it **** on my last viewing. That match could have been AMAZING if they had ditched the 3SOH gimmick, trimmed it to about 20-25 minutes total, and just made it a Street Fight. I love, love the Street Fight portion, not a huge fan of the cage portion, and like the standard portion alright. A lot of people hate on that match and I just dont see why. It's 75% great, 15% ok, and 10% not so good in my opinion. If I were you I'd watch all of the card but that match tonight, and save that one tomorrow so you can focus all your attention on it and form an honest opinion.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I actually will probably get the whole show through tonight, I've been out of town all week and have been without some wrasslin so I need to watch a whole show to get me back in my mood. 

On Steph vs Trish now and this might be the hottest match in WWE history :moyes1


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*No way out 2001 review 

Starting my 2001 reviews off with one of the most overrated shows out there!

Match #1: Raven vs The Big Show *

Pretty sure this is the match where a guy working as a popcorn vendor somehow gets involved in the match, what does this mean? AUTOMATIC INTEREST! The promo played before this reminds me that this is the show where Angle and Rock have their second ppv match, fuck that shit. YES THE POPCORN VENDOR IS HERE :mark:. Too bad Raven destroys him, wanted him to win the hardcore title, but now BLACKMAN is here :mark:. Ok now there’s Bob Holly too, way too many people? NAH. I’m not even going to try to explain this whole match but it’s a CLUSTERFUCK but in a :mark: way, something you don’t see too often but in the world of the 24/7 rule it happens a good amount, and this may have been its finest , I think the match is over, Big Show wins, but I’m 99% sure Raven was the champion at mania. Ok I guess not, awesome match! ****

CAL SCALE: 2 

Match #2: Chris Jericho Vs Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Benoit Vs X-Pac*

I remember loving this match :mark: all 4 guys clearly can work so I expect the match to be plenty of :mark:. Awesome fight early on, everyone is after Jericho, and knowing he wins is an interesting viewpoint because I wonder if they’ll go the overcoming the odds route with him winning :lol. Match is awesome still, one of the better 4 ways out there in terms of just being a whole hell lot of FUN and beng just a good old fashion brawl, which this one was for sure. Jericho wins, more of a heel gets away with it ending even though I think hes the babyface, but whatever, fun match is fun. ****1/2 

CAL SCALE: 3 

Match #3: Stephanie McMahon vs Trish Stratus*

I skip 99% of womens/divas matches but I do remember this one being a top 5 womens match in wrestling history, which should be a lot of fun. Lets also talk about how these are like the 2 hottest women in WWE history and that I’m marking out at the fap level :mark:. STEPH AND TRISH TOGETHER :moyes1. This is as close to a BRAWL you are going to see in womens wrestling, at least in WWF/E. Match is awesome and they tell a great story of just wanting to beat the shit out of each other. Ending is :mark: as well with Regal being confused as fuck with who Vince wanted to win, so he keeps changing his mind :lmao. Steph wins, I love this, second only to WM 22 as the best womens match I have seen, though I have not seen the UF 2006 match. ****1/4 

CAL SCALE: 2 

Match #4: HHH vs Steve Austin-3SOH match* 

I don’t remember that much about this, but I expect myself to like it a good bit for some reason. A match opinion can change at any time though, except for the main event tonight will for sure suck. Not even gonna recap the match, because its going to be long as fuck, so I might as well just watch the match with full attention and then write after the match. OK I’m still watching the match atm but I already know two big complaints that will bring my rating down regardless of the finish. The first one is that this match is way too fucking long, 40 minutes for this? Way too long imo, should have been cut in half and this silly stip should have never been invented, I’m like 25 minutes in and it feels way too long already. The other issue I have with it is that they’re trying VERY hard to make this match feel “epic” even though I don’t feel like I’m watching some sort of classic match, it’s a standard brawl for the most part, is it bad? No, is it as good and as enthralling as King and JR are selling it as? No fucking way. These two complaints I also have with the HHH/HBK HIAC match, though this is a little shorter I believe. I’ll just say the cage portion was absolute shit and also brought my rating down a fair bit, just not a satisfying ending to a match at all. Match overall is very meh and might be my least favorite match of the night so far, I touched on my two big points of critique and that is the reason my rating is so low coupled with my hatred of the cage portion.* ***

CAL SCALE: 2 

Match #5: Steven Richards vs Jerry Lawler 

NO 

CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #6: The Dudley Boys vs Edge and Christian vs The Brothers of Destruction *

Expecting a pretty fun match here, I like all 6 guys a lot so why shouldn’t this be a great match? This is in the filler match position on the card and I am curious to see what time it gets, I would guess around 10 minutes or so. Standard tag match and ends up going 11-12 minutes and it basically is the same thing as most of the tag matches that aren’t awesome TLC matches in 2000-2001 but that doesn’t mean that it is bad in any way, it is still awesome as fuck but probably the worst match of the night, but with the main event coming up next it won’t end up that way. Fun match but nothing more really. ***1/2 

CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #7: The Rock vs Kurt Angle 
*
Match SUCKS still, I might be its biggest hater of it, the crowd is into it but DAMN the action in the ring is boring as fuck, some of the worst work I have seen from both of these guys. The first 10 minutes or so of this is legit them just hitting some standard wrestling moves, Kurt does an ankle lock at one point but Rock gets out of it quite quickly. Its 12 AM here and I swear I almost fell asleep and I just drank two caffeinated beverages, the match is just one of the more dull matches I have ever watched in my entire life, it just has nothing that makes it pop at all, its just two guys going through the motions contrary to their match at No mercy which I really enjoyed. Big Show comes out in the end, similar to BG, I really don’t care here too, him ending matches isn’t good. Some finishers are hit and the Rock wins, SO FUCKING SHITTY, nothing redeeming at all about it, and I’m giving it the worst rating possible. *DUD 

CAL SCALE: 0 

FINAL CAL SCALE: 9 

Current 2001 PPV rankings 

No Way Out(9) *​


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Believe me, I hated that Angle/Rock match just as much as you did, SMITTY. What made it so dumb was that it kinda rendered Angle's title reign pointless. He won it in a super dirty fashion against The Rock at No Mercy, was booked to be a jobber as champion, and then loses it back to the same guy he beat a few months ago and then literally had a feud with Benoit because neither guy had anything better to do. I also remember this being the time as a kid where I stopped liking The Rock. I'm wondering if those feelings will be rekindled when I rewatch 2001 because at the moment, Rock is killing it in 2000. However, something really felt different about Rock in 2001. He felt so "commercialized" and uncool and he was made to look like a god of sorts. It also bothered me how Jericho was the one that ended up turning heel in their feud, when nothing Jericho really did was heelish. Shit, Rock outright told Jericho that he's "just not that good". What the hell is that crap?

Jericho/Kane from SvS 2000 has been a delight to watch. I really hope Rock/Rikishi holds up. The buildup to the PPV though was terrible. No wonder it did horrible (at the time) buyrates. Nothing about this show had any hype. I guess we can blame the new head of creative at the time for that though. Damn you, Stephanie!


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao at Austin/Rikishi at No Mercy 2000. I don't remember this match being this fun. Like really fun. Austin trying to kill Rikishi :mark:. :lmao even more at HHH/Benoit. Both guys do some real nice offense on each other, but the long term selling of both guys were Kingston-esque. Like my goodness, do these guys not realize that injuries affect your OFFENSE as well as your defense? Why is Benoit kicking HHH with his injured leg? Why is HHH lifting Benoit up with his injured arm? I actually kinda liked the match, but man. The sad part is that this isn't even Benoit's worst display of selling in 2000. My goodness, the only wrestlers who have a good understanding of selling in 2000 are Rock and Jericho.
> 
> EDIT: ROFL at Vince McMahon botching the narration to Yokozuna's memorial video on the 10/23/2000 edition of RAW. We've seen all different kinds of botches, but how do you botch a pre-recorded memorial video?


I was kind of bored during Triple H/Benoit to be honest.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Hunter/Austin @ No Way Out 2001 is 5-stars. Deal with it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HHH/Austin @ NWO will always be a guilty pleasure of mine. Think I had it at ****1/2 on last watch, but I can see why it grates some people, esp the first fall which even ill admit I'm not the biggest fan of, but I love the final two falls.


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----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

ATF reviews *Over The Limit 2010:*

After reviewing OTL 2012 a while ago, I decided to go back and watch the previous two shows in the meantime. And, well, it was a big waste of time after all. I went with the inaugural first, and on paper, it looked quite killer. Swagger/Show, Edge/Orton, Punk/Rey, Cena/Batista, Harts/JeriMiz, hell even Drew/Kofi had potential. Oh dear...

- McIntyre/Kofi: ** (Cal Scale: 0.5). Some might just say "ehh, it's a Kofi match so no shocker", but I'll just say Drew had a rather off-night as well. In fact, I was really surprised at how BORING this opener was. Still, kind of watchable all in all, but their rematch at Fatal 4-Way was much better.

- Truth/DiBiase: *1/2 (0.5). Well, talk about a "sleeper" if you can call it that. I'm not much of a guy who NO's stuff, but I wanted to in this case. But I decided to give it a chance since I don't remember it at all, and well, to my surprise, it wasn't horrible. That being said, it's still bad filler.

- Punk/Rey: **** (5). If ONLY the stoppage never happened. Easily the best of the PPV trilogy of 2010, and I thought all three were good. Only behind Capitol "fuck that show" Punishment as the best in the entire series too imo. I remember it being the only good match on this PPV, and it held up.

- Harts/JeriMiz: ***1/4 (2). Fuck me this was good. I'll admit that I sort of expected it, but never in my mind did I think was going to actually deliever. I only remembered Punk/Rey as a good match out of the show, so this being as good as it was was shocking too. Definitely one of the most overlooked Tag matches of the last few years.

- Edge/Orton: DUD (-1). Yes, like I said, I'm not a NO guy. I like to watch everything from a show. Plus, you never know if you're actually skipping something decent. So instead, I'll throw -1 points at DUD's - matches so bad they deserve to get NO'ed. Like this. This sucked. The botched ending played part in that, but I just thought this was one dull piece of shit. Dissapointing doesn't make it justice.

- Swagger/Show: *3/4 (0.5). Incredibly short, the ending was horrible, and I kept thinking all throughout the match "why the fuck was the Big Show nº1 contender? Why the fuck was Swagger such a weak ass champion? Why do I even care?", but I'll admit it was kind of fun for what it was. Shortcomings aside, good legwork and fun stuff overall.

- Eve/Maryse: DUD (-1). Bah.

- Cena/Batista: 1/4* (0). Seriou-fucking-sly? You mean to tell me that after the WM 26 and LMS matches being kick-ass, you give THIS piece of fucking shit? Give me a break. Not only was it one sloppy stinker, but it was also a big spotty mess. Doesn't help that I just couldn't force myself to care about half of what they were doing anyway. Ugh.

Cal Scale: *6.5*. Still higher than I expected. Thank your lucky stars.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NWO 2001 is an overrated PPV? I don't think anything on that show was worth remembering, maybe except for the Fatal Four Way. _Maybe_.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It is widely regarded (outside of here) as one of the best PPV's in WWE history. Maybe that's why it's referred as overrated.

There are quite a lot of better shows in the same year (Rumble, WM, Backlash, SummerSlam, No Mercy, Survivor Series). But I enjoyed it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Survivor Series is immediately > just for Regal vs Tajiri. SummerSlam speaks for itself. Shit main event and it doesn't even matter b/c the rest of the show is such a blast. Infinite Austin vs Angle praise here. ffs I'm not even trying to constantly bring it up.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Survivor Series is indeed quite wonderful. Not just Regal/Tajiri. Edge/Test, Hardys/Dudleys and Christian/Snow is all fun stuff. And DAT Team WWF/Team Alliance :mark:


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Going through my Brock project, just up until the week before the Vengeance 2003 triple threat match, which I'm looking forward to. 

Even though of course Brock is a great heel, I have to say he plays a bloody good face too imo. He also appears fine on the mic and in segments too, without Heyman. Brock is also watchable in any match, don't think there is a such thing as a bad Lesnar match, esp back then.

Good times.

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----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never have been much of a fan of the Team WWF vs Team Alliance match. I may be now, but it's not in my wheelhouse of good atm. Cage is a blur; never was exactly big on it either. Open to changing that. Snow vs Christian, yeah now that's fun.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Superbrawl 92

Brian Pillman vs Jushin Liger ***1/2
Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham vs Steve Austin & Larry Zybysko ****1/4
The Steiners vs Arn Anderson & Bobby Eaton ***3/4
RIcky Steamboat vs Rick Rude ****
Sting vs Lex Luger ***1/2

Incredible card oozing with 'dat work ethic. Pillman/Liger, great but I can't extend beyond that. The first tag was almost flawless but I think it went on just a little bit too long and the heat began to evapourate. Regardless, adore it. Steiners vs Arn/Eaton was another match that I think dragged. I think the breakdown on Scotty went on slightly longer than necessary but at the same time, I'm like 90% certain I'd love it more on a rewatch and forget those issues.

Loved everything Steamboat/Rude brought to the table but the match as a whole is nothing above stellar. Beach Bash soon so :> Sting/Luger felt a little spotty but I love these type of match-ups. Energetic crowd, two men bashing away at each other with their entire moveset in a quick, showy barrage.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Science give me Liger vs Pillman all day. I've almost done that once. But one viewing blows me away so I decide to try and not kill myself before my brain will eventually. That's 1992 WCW in a nutshell.


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## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't know what doesn't make you a fan of WWF/Alliance. I'd guess it is the sort-of flashy style and some quick eliminations. To each his own for sure (Y)

Tbh Survivor Series deserves much more than the crap it has been getting over the past few years. Its history is a pride. Sure, 2012 was overall OK, but it felt anything but a "Big 4". You might as well forget its supposed importance and call MITB the new 4th biggest show anyway.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Really enjoyed Brock/Angle/Show from Vengeance, esp the tin cans to Show lol. On the way to Summerslam now and dat heel turn.

God bless Brock. 

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----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

That SuperBrawl II card might be enough to convince me to finally sit down and watch a bunch of WCW stuff. Are the events themselves worth watching, or is it better to just look for the good matches?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WWF v. Alliance tag goes way too long.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao ended up going to bed during the Backlash triple treat. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO WATCH THIS THING ALL THE WAY THROUGH!!!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

ATF reviews *Over The Limit 2011*

The inaugural Over The Limit was a disaster. The final Over The Limit was sweet. So is the middle one middle too? Nope. It's an even worse disaster than the first one tbh.

- Rey/Truth: **3/4 (1). Well screw me, this was surprising. It was more of a Rey carryjob than anything, with Truth only bringing the goods for the finish, but still, a solid opener.

- Barrett/Zeke: 1/4* (0). And now kicks in the bad stuff. This was just dull and sloppy all over the place. I'm a big time Barrett fan, but he's no Christian in the ring, not even close, so he doesn't have the right to have good stuff against Zeke it seems. Though he too didn't serve good purpose either, so no single person takes the blame.

- Cara/Chavo: DUD (-1). This match could fill an entire episode of Botchamania. Sin Cara by himself could fill an entire SEASON of Botchamania. This was basically a squash, since Chavo was only there to take Cara's moves. And a fucking terrible one.

- Show & Kane/Punk & Ryan: **1/4 (1). Kinda solid, even if it was more thanks to Punk than anyone. That's all I can say.

- Brie/Kelly: 1/4* (0). Could've been worse I guess.

- Orton/Christian: ****1/4 (6). Well, this single-handedly saved this show from being one of the all-time worst... yet somehow it is still one of the all-time worst. They worked around the face vs. face structure perfectly, the crowd was quite rowdy and divided, the wrestling great (with my favorite moment being the callback to the Smackdown match when Christian almost falls again to a midair RKO but stops himself) and some emotion inbetween. SummerSlam is close to this imo, but doesn't quite beat it.

- Lawler/Cole: DUD (-1). Uhhh... it was better than WM and ER I guess. Tbh, this is EXACTLY what WM should've been. And yet it was still garbage. Though watchable and sort-of fun garbage. But still garbage.

- Cena/Miz: DUD (-1). There's something about Over The Limit Main Events (ironically all feat. Cena) that just sticks out as horrible. The best of three was Cena/Batista at 1/4*. That tells you something. And this wasn't even the worst of the three. No wonder why everyone accuses Cena of being Superman: he gets murdered in 15 minutes and then he simply hulks up and wins in 5? Up your fucking ass, WWE.

Over The Limit Cal Scale:
6.5 for 2010
*5 for 2011*
14.5 for 2012

I should start doing these more often


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Look at half the roster on that show ffs...

Zeke, Kelly, Sin Cara, Truth, The Miz, Cole, Lawler, Ryan

They couldn't have picked 8 worse people to fill out their card.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:lmao @ Sin Cara/Chavo. The ending being botched was just humorous.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> :lmao ended up going to bed during the Backlash triple treat. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO WATCH THIS THING ALL THE WAY THROUGH!!!


DON'T WATCH IT BEFORE YOU'RE GOING TO BED DAMMIT! 

Pick a good time to watch it and you'll make it through.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm now rewatching my first PPV on DVD ever, SummerSlam 2006 biatches 

FLAIR VS. FOLEY :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll watch it later. After dinner. When I'll be wide awake. Because eating a large meal + alcohol always wakes me up :side:.

Had a random thought the other day. Saw someone mention something about dream matches somewhere, and I was wondering, what dream matches have you had that ACTUALLY HAPPENED? We can sit here and talk all day about Undertaker/Eddie, Bryan/Eddie, Everyone/Eddie etc, but that's been done. So which matches on your dream match list over the years actually took place?

Undertaker Vs HBK - Yeah they wrestled in 97 and 98, but ever since Undertaker returned in 2000 and HBK in 2002, I sooo wanted this to happen. Took a while but we got it. Twice. At WM. And both were fucking SPECTACULAR :mark:.

HBK/Angle - Yup, this was a dream match for me once upon a time. I like that I still really love the match too (from WM, fuck knows what I'll make to Vengeance on a re-watch). Glad it happened!

Well I did have some more but my brain ain't functioning properly atm. Tired, stressed and other shit getting in the way .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Believe it or not, Punk/Rock was a dream match for me. Then it happened. 

Fuck me, I've watched SS 2006 a million times, and I'm still in disbelief at how utterly silent the crowd is for Rey/Chavo. Either they're silent or they're booing the match and chanting for Eddie. Well, they do know that was made in distaste anyway. Show/Sabu next, I always remembered this match as fun.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Finally got around to watching some of Mania XXX. Once again DAT KING OF KINGS entrance is definitely the best thing in the history of television. Now that that's settled, Hunter/Bryan...damn what a match. I've watched it twice now so I guess that's 3 times including the live viewing. I initially had it at around ****1/4 because in the arena it all ended so suddenly and I wasn't fully sure what had happened in the finishing stretch, and what an awesome finishing stretch it was btw. But after watching 2 more times I'm bumping up to ****1/2. I loved everything about this and had they decided to give us one or two false finishes this probably would go even higher. On one hand, I respect that they didn't go for the old finisher fest towards the end because holy shit did it ever put Bryan over BIG TIME. On the other hand though, I do think that a heart stopping finish would have kicked this into overdrive. Similarly, I also get the feeling that they were holding back to some degree because of the match later in the night and I sincerely hope we get a rematch between these guys down the line. If this is what they can produce possibly holding back then I can't wait to see what they give us at 100%. So yep, *****1/2* for Bryan/Hunter and MOTN so far. 

The Shield coming out with those masks :mark: :mark:. There isn't much to say about this. It's a super fun squash but hard to rate because it was so damn short. Even still, I enjoyed it, it was fun and if I had to give it stars I'd go **** but probably one of the most entertaining ** matches out there. Shield got put over big time as well which is always nice to see. 

Again, the Battle Royal is a lot of fun and I swear the pop for Cesaro winning rivalled the biggest pops on the show. Thunderous reaction and everybody jumped out of their seat when he lifted Show. I really love the call back to Hogan slamming Andre considering it's Andre's Battle Royal and all. Another fun match that's easy enough to watch. Probably another one at ****. 

Cena/Wyatt ruled the world. Wyatt's entrance is just epic. It was epic in the arena but I think even more so on TV. I didn't notice the masks on the band and because it was so dark in the arena it was hard to make out what was going on so I really enjoyed seeing this back on screen. The match itself isn't a technical match but who the hell cares when the story fucking rocks the way it does here. I love Bray trying to get Cena to unleash his inner demon so to speak. Because of Wyatt's character and the way they built this up it was a million times more effective than when they tried it with Kane back in 2012. I loved how Wyatt was all about getting Cena to let loose and not really about the match...until Cena kicked out of Sister Abigail and then it dawned on Wyatt the type of guy he was dealing with. Same again, I really liked Cena's almost cartoonish selling of his inner turmoil over what to do. He wanted to beat the shit out of Wyatt and was given ample opportunity, even from Wyatt himself, but stayed true to who he is and won the match the old fashioned way. I know people are bored of Cena's character but times like this you can appreciate him being the one constant in WWE over the years. Fantastic storytelling and the horrible Raw promo aside, I think these guys will kill it in the cage at Extreme Rules. ******, possibly more, I need to watch it again. 

I stopped here because as sad as it sounds, I couldn't bring myself to watch the streak match just yet . I'll eventually do it some time next week though. I have to do it some time and I really want to see the main event too so I can have an opinion on the overall show. So far it's definitely one of the best Mania's in years and right up there with 28 as a modern favourite of mine. It also highlights the flaws in the star ratings system because 2 ** star matches probably looks like it drags everything down but both of them are so fun that the rating is irrelevant and they don't take away from the show at all. 

*Mania XXX Ratings so far:*

*Bryan/Hunter - ****1/2
Shield/Authority - **
Battle Royal - **
Cena/Wyatt - ****+*

EDIT - Dream matches that actually happened? Rock/Cena, HHH/Taker HIAC and HHH/Brock. Luckily I got to witness 2 of them live. One of my biggest dream matches has always been HHH/Mysterio but it looks like one I'll never get to see. Heel HHH vs. Mysterio in 2006 would have been so :mark: imo.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I'll watch it later. After dinner. When I'll be wide awake. Because eating a large meal + alcohol always wakes me up :side:.
> 
> Had a random thought the other day. Saw someone mention something about dream matches somewhere, and I was wondering, what dream matches have you had that ACTUALLY HAPPENED? We can sit here and talk all day about Undertaker/Eddie, Bryan/Eddie, Everyone/Eddie etc, but that's been done. So which matches on your dream match list over the years actually took place?
> 
> ...




The big ones for me were, once Eddie came back in 2002 and was better than ever, and once Rey had finally joined the WWE around the same time and he too was better than ever, I wanted a proper, drawn out feud between the two. In WCW they had the 3 or so matches that were definitely great, but there just didn't seem to be real HEAT there. All that changed with their 2005 feud, a dream of mine and I was so happy Eddie and Rey got to finally show just how awesome their chemistry is in the WWE.

Eddie and Brock was another dream match that thankfully happened. As was Eddie and Angle, but that didn't deliver how I thought it would.

Foley and Flair at Summerslam 2006 was definitely a dream match of mine.

Finally, CM Punk vs Brock at SS last year. Once Punk got put with Heyman in late 2012, I really hoped we would get to see this, and man did it ever deliver. I'm a huge Brock fan and I just knew he was capable of so much better than the crap we got in the Triple H feud. My second favorite Summerslam match ever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BL triple threat round 2. I can do this. I can watch it ALL THE WAY THOUGH. Hopefully. Better be good too.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Re-watching the four main matches of Mania today. Bryan/HHH, Wyatt/Cena, Bryan/Batista/Orton, and lastly Taker/Lesnar. Saving Taker/Lesnar for last as I don't want it to put a damper on the triple threat again. Finished Bryan/HHH, and here are my thoughts:

Bryan/HHH
On re-watch, just as great as it was before... heck, a bit better actually. Nothing has really changed my thoughts majorly on the match. Pacing was good, although sluggish at times with HHH in control, never really got out of second gear (and at times, seemed to go back to first), and I still didn't feel much animosity or anger between the two. Now with the negatives out of the way, the positives were, first of all, some solid selling by Bryan of the arm, and some solid arm work by HHH. The bumping by the two guys was great and made the other's offense look all the more convincing. That wicked clothlesline by HHH out of the corner when Bryan was running at him is probably my favorite spot of the match. The callback to the WM20 main event with HHH rolling Bryan to the center of the ring was a good spot as well. No real great false finish here, as I'm sure everyone and their mother expected Bryan to kick out of the pedigree, and HHH didn't kick out of the running knee... but I don't have any issue with that whatsoever. It was great to see that the match didn't become a finisher fest on their first go, which leaves a lot of wiggle room for when they do their second match.

Overall, a **** match, as I put it at before, although it's a bit better on this re-watch and it's better than what I remember of Wyatt/Cena (although I'll be giving that a re-watch next to see if it holds up). The aftermatch was sweet as well. I have no doubt the two can deliver a ****1/2 match in the future... this wasn't it, and I still find it a bit overrated that people put it that high, but I see the potential is there. I look forward to when these two face again, which I'm predicting/hoping is Summerslam for the title.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock just turned heel in a steel cage with Vince  Now looking forward to the road to Summerslam and of course the match. :mark: 

I do love Tazz's "Here Comes The Pain" every time.

Anyone want to send me the full Smackdown 2003 season, ill be your fwend forever. 

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----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

ATF reviews *SummerSlam 2006*:

One of my childhood's most important shows ever. My first ever PPV DVD. NOSTALGIA~!

- Rey/Chavo: **3/4 (1). Despite the blatant distaste in the storyline - and the fact that Chavo is far from Eddie in all terms - both men brought this solid match together with a lot of HATE~ in between. Shame the Boston crowd shat all over it, unsurprisingly at that.

- Show/Sabu: *1/2 (0.5). It is a fun match, sure, but there were like 4 botches, all from the courtesy of Sabu. I just came up with a nickname for him: the Son of a Botch. Wow. Just remembered another dream match: Sin Cara vs. Sabu.

- Hogan/Orton: *** (2). Way, way, WAY better than I ever remembered it. Orton was relentless in his attack on Hogan's legs, the crowd was heavily into it, and Hogan's comeback was one of the best in his "modern matches". Really fun stuff overall. Orton 2006 was just killer.

- Flair/Foley: ****1/4 (6). FUCK YEAH. The GOAT and the GOAT. The collision of the GOAT's. And Jesus fuckin' Christ, was it nasty, was it bloody and was it memorable. I used to have it at ****1/2, but this time it was just too short to get that much. Still, absolutely killer stuff and MOTN by far.

- Booker/Batista: DUD (-1). Note to yourself, Cal: when you're into 2006, NO everything that is singles between Booker and Batista. Do it for your own good. This was putrid.

- DX/McMahons: *** (2). I'm rating the whole segment, not just the match. This felt like 2 different matches put together into one, but holy crap did I have a good time. Overbooking fest aside, this was a crapton of fun, and Vince and Shane pulling out the old Tag Teams' finishers was priceless.

- Edge/Cena: ***3/4 (4). Probably one of Edge's best and most cerebral performances. His facial expressions, cut-off spots, everything he did, even his punches looked sorta good. Oh, and Cena did a nice job too for the most part. Definitely the smartest match of this feud and a great ME.

Cal Scale: *14.5*. Much higher than expected tbh.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Continuing with my Mania 30 big 4 match reviews:

Wyatt/Cena
Match went down a bit, didn't remember it being this sluggish.  Yeah, takes a while for it to get out of first gear, and never really gets too crazy with finishers or just exciting near falls in general. Cena taking out Harper and Rowan before finally getting to Bray was a bit too much for my liking as well. Still a great match though. If there was any doubt in my mind of Wyatt being the best at portraying his character in WWE, it was extinguished in this match. Even Sandow, who I'd say was the only person I'd have above Bray previously, never could hold a candle to what Bray did at Mania. The storytelling as well was top-notch, Cena did his part as well of getting extremely angry , to the point where he'd almost attack Bray with the steps and chair (even if his performance was a bit over the top). Wyatt didn't necessarily want to win (he had no problem doing so), but he wanted to really bring the "worst" out of Cena, and turn him into a monster. However, much like Kane a couple of years ago, he fails at it, and Cena overcomes the odds yet again. If Cena was a huge fan favorite, this would be fine and an all around great story, but Cena is in desperate need of some change, and it looks like we'll have to wait a little longer for it.

Great match though, ***3/4 and Wyatt's best singles match to date.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Now onto the Brock/Zach Gowen match 

I'll say one thing, Brock gets maligned for his mic work, but I'm now up until Aug '03 and I honestly havn't noticed a problem with it, he delivers his lines and promos just fine. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Remembered that I have already reviewed KOTR 2001 and Invasion so I actually have three shows done for my 01 project, here are the updated 2001 rankings 

1: Invasion(15) 
2: King of the ring(13) 
3: No way out(9)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

ATF said:


> - DX/McMahons: *** (2). I'm rating the whole segment, not just the match. This felt like 2 different matches put together into one, but holy crap did I have a good time. Overbooking fest aside, this was a crapton of fun, and *Vince and Shane pulling out the old Tag Teams' finishers was priceless*.


Both of them mocking Bret's pose :lmao.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Been meaning to rewatch Orton/Edge from Vengeance for a while and just got done with it. It's as good as I remember it being and maybe even better. Very long match but the build to it is great as they start off slow and it gets more and more physical until the awesome and exciting finishing stretch with all the nearfalls which the crowd is into, every second of it. Never paid attention to it but I like how the exposed turnbuckle played into the finish which adds points to the match. And Orton's post-match reaction never ceases to crack me up. :lmao

★★★★


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Backlash 2004*

WM main event rematch! Hardcore match! And... nothing else I remember!


*Shelton Benjamin Vs Ric Flair*

This is during Benjamin's first big singles push where he beat TRIPLE H TWO WEEKS IN A ROW.

FLAIR WAS WINNING TITLES THE SAME YEAR BENJAMIN WAS BORN. Dayum lol. Flair is OLD. And still more awesome than 90% of the wrestling world.

So the early going of this is Flair trying to show Shelton up because he's a newb and Flair is GOD, but Shelton has the amateur wrestling ability, youth and athleticism on his side allowing him to constantly show up Flair.

If simply being a VETERAN isn't enough to put Flair in control... then maybe some DIRTY TACTICS will! THUMB TO THE EYE~! And the fans are eating it all up. MUCH LOVE FOR THE NATURE BOY IN CANADA!

Match structure definitely reminds me of an old school Flair main event match. He's fighting from underneath as he lets his opponent show him up and out shine him early on, then one mistake later and Flair is working over the leg. This could have been a pretty sweet title match back in the day. Shelton in STING'S position? Yes please. Aaaaand now I want Shelton Vs Vader lol.

Fuck me, Lawler brought up that Flair was gonna take Shelton to school here tonight... and I'll be damned if BOTH Lawler and JR don't run that whole analogy into the fucking GROUND lol. Especially when Flair grabs a chair. Sweet jebus :lmao.

Ouch, Flair does his over the turnbuckle spot... then slips off the apron. Surprised he didn't hurt his leg there.

BRASS KNUCKS~! But Shelton hits a Stinger Splash and knocks them off. Flying clothesline... and this is over with. Lol. Wait... Stinger Splash? SHELTON REALLY SHOULD HAVE TAKEN STING'S SPOT!!! 

Match started off fun... then half way into it, it just fell apart and the finish ended up being really FLAT. Shame because this was looking to be good at one point.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Orton promo. Says he's the longest reigning IC champ in SEVEN YEARS. Wait... hasn't he only held the title for 5 months? DAMN lol. Good promo by Orton. I miss this Orton . COME BACK GOOD ORTON.


*The Coach Vs Tajiri*

ARM DRAG BY COACH~! KICK BY TAJIRI~!

Coach runs away after getting kicked a few times, then Tajiri misses a kick and ends up cracking his leg on the ring post! Love how Coach looked too confused to capitalise on it straight away, playing into the REAL fact that he's not a wrestler. Or at least he wasn't until tonight. SOMEONE GONE TRAINED THE COACH!

:mark: Tajiri kicking out of a leg submission on the mat :mark:.

Crowd are kinda stunned + bored + WTF for all of this :lmao. 

Tajiri sells the leg well and KICKS~! awesome when he's making his comeback. Coach does surprisingly well, and GETS THE WIN... after Garrison Cade decks Tajiri in the face.

This ain't awful!

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Chris Jericho Vs Christian & Trish Stratus*

So what did we learn from this feud? TRISH LIKES IT ROUGH.

Also, that there must have been a time where Vince didn't HATE Christian. He beat JERICHO at WRESTLEMANIA XX. Pretty fecking huge tbh lol. And then a year and a half later, Christian leaves for TNA because WWE don't seem to want him .

"HOW CAN YOU LOOK AT TRISH STRATUS AND NOT HAVE HARD FEELINGS?" :lmao

Oh man at the start of this :lmao. Jericho decks Christian, leaving Trish all alone, so he just SMILES at her and she runs like fuck to get away :lmao.

:lmao at Trish's reaction when Jericho knocks her off the apron.

TRISH GETS TAGGED IN~! CHICK KICK TO JERICHO~!

ACCIDENTAL HEADBUTT TO CHRISTIAN'S BALLS~!

TRISH GETS SPANKED~!

FUCK ME at Christian's bump from the bulldog!

Might I just say at this point, that this match has been rather dull and uneventful outside of the spots I've mentioned in CAPS. A massive step down from their incredible WM match.

Match ends... with an enzeguri. 

BOOOORING and crappy. Shocked and disappointed.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Eugene backstage looking at a divas magazine, then walking into the divas locker room and seeing Gail Kim in her underwear. And Molly Holly without her wig. Regal is awesome though :lmao.











*Victoria Vs Lita - WWE Women's Championship Match*

FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP NO.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Randy Orton Vs Mick Foley - WWE Intercontinental Championship No Holds Barred Match*

:mark:

Orton has considered this one of his best matches ever, and Foley to my knowledge still considers this his absolute best, beating out the Mind Games match with HBK. Never thought THAT highly of it myself, but it's still been a match I thought was fucking great. As long as it holds up I'll be happy happy happy.

Love the chaotic start to this one, with Foley going after Orton with BARBIE, and Orton avoiding it at all costs. We have a camera man getting dizzy trying to keep up which adds to the whole experience, then he even falls over which is awesome too lol.

TRASH CAN TO THE HEAD~! Foley's brain cells are going... going... GONE!

Damn, Foley is IN SHAPE here! He looks better than he did for... well... his entire WWF/E career lol. I know that after his disappointment at WM, he really got into shape for this, but I forgot how THIN the guy looked lol.

BACK SUPLEX ON THE STEEL RAMPWAY. Foley's head CRACKS. Ouch!

ANOTHER back bump on the rampway by Foley. It's almost like he HATES his own brain cells lol!

MR SOCKO~! Hmmm... seems out of place in this kind of match though. What to do... what to do... GIVE MR SOCKO BARBIE~! RIGHT TO THE FACE OF RANDY ORTON~! RANDY ORTON IS BLEEDING!!!

:mark: Foley throwing punches to the open wound :mark:. Is it weird that I always :mark: for that kind of stuff? 

Orton is bleeding and keeps getting his face torn apart by barbed wire. So Foley gives him a break... and legdrops Barbie into his testicles! 

FIRE~! FOLEY HAS GASOLINE AND A LIGHTER~! HE'S GONNA SET BARBIE ON FIRE~!

Aaaaaand then Bischoff comes out and stops him, saying the PPV would get shut down if he does. So like, was the fire a planned spot but they later found out they couldn't do it so they did that? Or did they just plan the "can't do it" spot? Either way it seemed... pointless.

Well, if fire can't be used, might as well up the usage of BARED WIRE, with a big wooden board COVERED in the stuff!!!

ORTON JUST THREW TESTICLE DUST IN FOLEY'S FACE~! Seriously... where the FUCK did that come from? 

BODY SLAM ONTO THE BARBED WIRE BOARD~! Foley starting to get a taste of his own medicine. And it tastes metallic and possibly bloody.

Fuck me sideways they REALLY fucking teased Orton going into the barbed wire board lol. I mean, they did it before when Orton threw the TESTICLE DUST to escape, but those Irish Whip reversals were DAMN CLOSE lol. I've seen this fucking match before and I STILL thought he was going into it :lmao.

THUMBTACKS~! Orton signalling for an RKO... BUT FOLEY REVERSES~!

ORTON BACK FIRST INTO THE FUCKING THUMBTACKS~! Orton's reaction is fucking HILARIOUSLY AWESOME :mark:.

Randy runs the FUCK AWAY because, who the hell wouldn't? Up to the rampway and... ORTON GETS THROWN OFF THE RAMP THROUGH SOME WOODEN STAGE CONVENIENTLY SET UP THERE~!

Foley is jealous that Orton got to have so much fun, so he decides to ELBOW DROP off the stage . FUN~!

Fucking hell the camera angle for the elbow drop makes me CRINGE every time, because there is a bit of wood that's now a VERY SHARP POINTY THING and Foley's head comes dangerously fucking close lol.

ORTON STILL KICKS OUT~! Crazy to think that Foley MADE TWO MEMBERS OF EVOLUTION with crazy hardcore style matches. And he did it with HHH TWICE, once as a mid-carder when HHH was moving away from the rich snob gimmick and again as a full blown main eventer. FOLEY IS GOD.

Back in the ring and... MR SOCKO IS BACK~! MANDIBLE CLAW~!

EUROPEAN UPPERCUT TO ESCAPE~!

RIGHT BACK INTO A MANDIBLE CLAW~!

COUNTERED INTO AN RKO~!

:lmao poor ref did a 2 count in thumbtacks. Bet he's glad the match didn't end there.

RKO ON BARBIE~! ORTON WINS!!!

Match is still fucking great, but I still don't think as highly of it as most people. Prefer the WM 22 match with Foley/Edge as far as post Foley retirement hardcore matches go. Still, this really helped MAKE Orton and showed that he was more than just a pretty boy 3rd generation wrestler. 

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*


*La Resistance Vs The Hurricane & Rosey*

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha no.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Kane Vs Edge*

Remember when Edge returned after being out for over a year... then broke his hand straight away :lmao.

Kane targets the broken hand :mark:. Kane punches the broken hand that's still in a cast then sells his own hand :mark:.

Edge is back in Canada and the fans don't give a SHIT. LOL. Edge does absolutely NOTHING for a good while though. Punches Kane a bunch of times at the start of the match because... I dunno, he's returned as a brawler now? Either way he's been a steaming pile of what I'll produce a little later on in the toilet after eating a Sunday dinner .

:lmao at Lawler's call for Edge's "Edgecution" aka the lifting DDT he was using AS A FINISHER before he got injured "that's something there...".

Cast to Kane, followed by a Spear and this is over. Short and shit.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Chris Benoit Vs Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

WM rematch! I've never been able to sit through this in full in YEARS. It's kinda like Rock/Jericho from the 02 RR... regardless of how good it is (or could be, fuck knows what I think to it these days lol), it just PUTS ME TO SLEEP. I managed to overcome my sleep issues with Rock/Jericho and enjoyed that match. Is today the day I finally watch this in full? I hope so, wanna get this out of the way lol.

Match starts off fun and full of energy. Crowd finally give a shit about something (Benoit) which helps too. Everyone is beating the shit out of each other with punches and CHOPS, and man oh man Benoit's chops are LETHAL.

Is Benoit the best "fall out of sight from a bump" guy?  I remember the one from Rebellion 2000 (check my ramble for it gif of it)... and now this:










I *think* the fans keep chanting "you screwed Bret" at HBK... but it sounds more like "you sold out" :lmao. Damn Canadians and their crazy accent. What's that all aboot?

:lmao HBK spazzes out after a diving headbutt. Flops around like a fish out of water. There's selling a move and then there's HBK flopping a move .

HUGE POP FOR THE SHARPSHOOTER!

CROSSFACE TO HBK! BUT NO REFEREE, SO BENOIT GIVES UP~!

SHARPSHOOTER BY HBK~! IN CANADA~! TO A CANADIAN~! IN A TITLE MATCH~! AND EARL HEBNER SHOWS UP~! :lmao Gotta <3 WWE sometimes lol.

Big "let's go Benoit" chant from the crowd... until HHH drops him on his head with a DDT and everyone shuts up :lmao.

"THEY'VE SEEN BENOIT CHOKE BEFORE MANY TIMES"

Oh god then IMMEDIATELY after that Lawler mentions his wife at ringside has seen him choke many times too :|. Akwaaaard...

TABLE SPOT~! :lmao that was the fucking dumbest shit I've seen HBK do in a LONG TIME :lmao. He basically does a DIVING ELBOW DROP through the table... but HHH and Benoit ARE STOOD UP AND FIGHTING IN FRONT OF THE TABLE. What the FUCK was he attempting to achieve? :lmao JR claims he was going for a cross body. Yeah ok. LOL.

At least in this match though someone other than Benoit gets taken out for a bit. I don't think I could manage with another HBK Vs HHH segment. I still have Bad Blood HIAC to get through. That's gonna take everything I've got to not shoot myself half way through. Would have preferred HHH took himself out so we got HBK Vs Benoit...

"ASSHOOOOOLE" Canadians are funneh .

Jebus, Lawler CONTINUES TO CALL BENOIT A CHOKER throughout this match.

Match gets boring around this time tbh. HHH is super slow and methodical but not doing anything particularly good or interesting so it just because SLOW AND DULL. Oh great, HBK comes back and Benoit ends up on the outside and we are "treated" to HBK Vs HHH for a little while...

No wonder I've always given up on this match lol :lmao. HHH control segment followed up with HHH Vs HBK? Urgh .

SWEET CHIN MUSIC TO BENOIT~!

LOW BLOW TO HBK~!

MR SLEDGEHAMMER~!

Poor HBK gets a shot to the back.

:lmao HHH goes head first into the ring post and... lands in the crowd :lmao.

SWEET CHIN MUSIC~! COUNTERED INTO A SHARPSHOOTER~!

HBK taps. BENOIT WINS.

Eh. Huge step down from their WM match, which I don't think is exactly the GOAT WM match or anything either lol. First half is mostly good, but the second half gets dull as shit.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 7*​


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

Backlash 2009 was the last *good* PPV the WWE put out until MITB 2011. Except for the Santino crap it was entertaining. The 3 big matches delivered.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Pretty sure this is the most I have disagreed with one of Cal's reviews, I gave that show a 21 on the cal scale


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

How on EARTH did you get that high lol? Even if the main event and hardcore matches were ***** that'd only be 18... leaving 3 points to be made up from a bunch of shitty matches .


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

OK, I just watched WCW's Superbrawl VIII from February 1998. 

It was a good solid show, but rather than review the whole PPV, I want to talk about the main event. 

Following the events of Starrcade 97, the WCW Title was vacated and the Sting/Hogan main event for this PPV was to determine the true champion and holder of the vacant title. 

Now anyone who knows me or has heard me talk about WCW knows that I feel Starrcade 1997 was arguably the single biggest botched mishap in wrestling history (although the WCW Invasion, the push of Goldberg following Starrcade 98, and the recent end of The Undertaker's streak might top it). Something so well built for a year and a half yielded one of the most unsatisfying payoffs and mismanaged endings you could possibly imagine. Everything about it from the screw up with the fast count, to the weird booking with Bret Hart restarting the match, to the uninteresting action in the ring. It was just a mess and Sting's "victory" felt hollow and undeserved by the time it was over. 

After watching Superbrawl VIII's main event again, I have to ask...WHY DIDN'T THEY HAVE THIS MATCH AT STARRCADE?!?!?! Seriously, this rematch was everything that the Starrcade match should have been. I am not saying it was the greatest match ever, but as far as being a better booked payoff to the Sting/Hogan feud, it is a far superior display of how to end a feud. We get to see Sting overcome the odds by taking out the barrage of nWo members that interfered. We got to see Sting Stinger Splash the hell out of Hogan for his comeback. We got to see Hogan be a dastardly prick that constantly cheated throughout and acted like a chicken shit when Sting started to make his comeback and wail on him. We got a great spot where Hogan kicked the referee before Sting hit him with the Scorpion Deathdrop, which looked as if it would cheat Sting out of a sure victory. And when the nWo ran down, while Sting was fighting them off Superman style, Savage sneaked in and hit Hogan, knocking him out and securing the win for Sting. It didn't taint Sting's victory like the botched fast count from Starrcade did because Sting had the match won anyway, and it evened the odds when the nWo ran down. This also set up the schism in the nWo, again, something that would have been a great story point to follow after Hogan's big fall at Starrcade. And to top it all off, Sting was awarded the WCW Title and spraypainted WCW across Hogan's unconscious body. Classic. 

I am not saying the Superbrawl VIII match was a classic or amazing, but it does demonstrate how frustrating WCW could be at times. The fact that they booked this match reasonably well at the lesser PPV two months later tells me that they were fully capable of booking the Starrcade 97 match right and just let egos and stupid booking getting in the way of that. Frustrating isn't even the word for it. 

Had Hogan & Sting had this Superbrawl VIII match at Starrcade 97 two months earlier, the biggest dropped ball in WCW's entire history would have been avoided.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

This thread is frantic right now I don't know what the hell to talk about.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> Pretty sure this is the most I have disagreed with one of Cal's reviews, I gave that show a 21 on the cal scale


About the same for me, if not even higher.

Oh and KING CAL, Orton gets a handful of DUST in the corner (you can see it if you pay attention) and puts them to use when MR SOCKO puts him in jeopardy.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan/Orton/Batista

This match was better than it had any right being, that's for sure. Bryan did a great job of selling the arm/damage he'd received (during the match, anyway  ), and all the parts with him involved were great. Several times I thought the match was going to end when I first watched... Batista Bomb on Bryan w/ the fast-counting ref (forgot his name  ), RKO on Batista after he speared Bryan out, Bryan's running knee on Orton with Batista taking advantage... especially on the night with what happened with Taker, any of those could've been it imo. First half of the match was kinda dull, but once Bryan takes out HHH and Batista/Orton go to destroy Bryan, things get a lot better. Then Batista throwing Orton around like a rag doll was great as well. Crowd popped big time for Bryan making Batista tap, more so than I remember. This whole 8 month build of Bryan getting screwed culminates the right way, becoming champion at Wrestlemania. 

***3/4 for the match, definitely better than when I first watched, but not anywhere near as high as I've seen some put it. I'd put it probably a bit below Wyatt/Cena, but again, it was a great way to close out the show. Hell, it's the best Mania main event since WM26, and at least it was better than last year's title match. While Bryan was the star, Orton, and even Batista, deserve a lot of credit as well. 

Welp, now onto Taker/Brock...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> About the same for me, if not even higher.
> 
> Oh and KING CAL, Orton gets a handful of DUST in the corner (you can see it if you pay attention) and puts them to use when MR SOCKO puts him in jeopardy.


TESTICLE DUST~!


----------



## ywall2breakerj (Mar 29, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> How on EARTH did you get that high lol? Even if the main event and hardcore matches were ***** that'd only be 18... leaving 3 points to be made up from a bunch of shitty matches .


Something like Regal-Cesaro is *******9/4 when you're high dude. It's totally possible.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> How on EARTH did you get that high lol? Even if the main event and hardcore matches were ***** that'd only be 18... leaving 3 points to be made up from a bunch of shitty matches .


Benjamin/Flair: ***1/2 
Tajiri/Coach: **1/2 
Jericho/Christian and Trish: ***3/4 
Victoria/Lita: NO 
Orton/Foley: ****3/4 
Tag match: NO 
Kane/Edge: 1/2* 
HBK/HHH/Benoit: ****1/2

Is the above post saying that Regal/Cesaro is a bad match? And is he saying I was high when I watched this show?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SMITTY said:


> Benjamin/Flair: ***1/2
> Jericho/Christian and Trish: ***3/4
> HBK/HHH/Benoit: ****1/2


Well there's ya problem right there . Far too high on them matches .

Especially the handicap match. I mean fuck, it was so BAD. I guess I can sorta see why people would enjoy the opener and main event more than me... but it would take a miracle to make me see what makes that handicap anything less that shit lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle (Summerslam 2003)

****1/2

Agree with Cal's rating for this, really excellent match, loved how they started out with the mat counters, till Brock gets pissed off and starts a mini tantrum lol. 

We then get into a really good wrestling match, then a ref bump, and Brock is in trouble but with no ref.....well here comes Vince to the rescue. 

One legged F5, that gotta be it, but no Angle kicks the fuck out, ref is back, ankle lock and Brock taps and retains.

Loving resuming my Brock project. :mark: Cole/Tazz are alot better on commentary than I remember.

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----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I remember the handicap match being awesome, I'll rewatch it again soon but I remember the match being just as good as the one at mania.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Suppose I'll take a look at a bit of that show. I totally dig the main evet, and Orton/Foley is magic. Never seen Shelton/Flair but on paper, it's :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM match is the GOAT match ever compared to the handicap match tbh. Difference in quality is astounding imo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That handicap match TELLS A STORY. Don't think it's ***3/4 but it's far from crappy. Dat's why it's good. :side:

I'm wondering should I rewatch the Cena/Punk series or NO MERCY 2006.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I liked the handicap match more at first tbh. But rewatching WM20 changed that although I still need to give the handicap another look.

Still, triple threat and NHB match put BL 2004 among the all-time great PPVs - specially for one branded.

@ATF: NO MERCY 2006 easily. With Punk/Cena, you seen one match you've seen them all. MITB and Raw 2013 are all I need out of that collection.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I was gonna say "NWO 2006 rules one-branded shows" but then I'd get BLASTED so I better keep my mouth shut. :side:








NWO 2006 ftw. :kurt :taker


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

No Way Out 2006 is a good show but it went down for me when Benoit/Booker failed to hold up and went down immensely. The rest of the show is pretty much a blur save for the awesome double main event. ORTON/REY & ANGLE/TAKER, tho. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I would say one thing, it feels like Brock and Show feuded for the entirety of Brock first run lol.

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----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Vengeance 03 >>>>>> every other single branded PPV and nobody can tell me otherwise.>>>>>>


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm now onto the Brock/Show/Taker triple threat on SD. 

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----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, I think I'm going with No Mercy. Still one of my favorite PPV's ever, rules so much.

No Way Out is still better imo though. The opener is awesome if you have a blur on everything else, by the way. The tag is a Matt Hardy carryjob, and JBL/Lashley sucks. Also, am I the only one who seems to like Benoit/Booker?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Hitman what did you think of Brock vs Team Angle from Smackdown 2/27/03? That match is all kinds of fun with Brock bumping like an absolute madman.


----------



## ywall2breakerj (Mar 29, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> Is the above post saying that Regal/Cesaro is a bad match? And is he saying I was high when I watched this show?


No, it's a fantastic match. Just some substances enhance its qualiy by trillion 's all. Hey if you can enjoy them HBK/HHH/Benoit triple threats and handicap matches to that degree in regular state more power to you (Y)


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Never watched wrasslin while high, sounds like it would enhance it a good bit. 

Thank god you like Regal/Cesaro, woudnt be able to take you srsly if you thought it was a shit match


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Guy LeDouche said:


> Hitman what did you think of Brock vs Team Angle from Smackdown 2/27/03? That match is all kinds of fun with Brock bumping like an absolute madman.


Loved it mate. I enjoyed most things Brock did with Team Angle tbh, they just meshed so well imo. Helped that Brock and Benjamin used to team up of course.

Man, this Brock/Taker/Show triple threat was all sorts of fun, and fuck it Brock hits such a perfect suplex on Show every damn time. Just brilliant stuff.

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----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Lesnar WM30-

It still shocks me... seeing Lesnar F-5 Taker and pin him 1-2-3 at Mania. If there was ever going to be one sure thing at Mania, one thing I'd have bet my house on (if I owned one), it was Taker beating Brock. Thank god I'm not a big gambler, but fuck... I still can't get over that moment. The 3 count and then everyone rising up with shocked faces. Even after seeing the ending itself at least a dozen times, it never gets any less surreal. Taker's streak is over, 21-1, and Brock Lesnar is the one.

Match is very slow, crowd isn't showing much interest (although there is some small noise even during the most dead points), the match never gets out of first gear due to Taker's concussion, and the crowd didn't even get loud for Lesnar's pinfalls after F-5ing Taker... even after the third one, there weren't many chanting for the "1-2-3"... whether it's due to Brock being heel or not, at least after a third one, I would've expected something. 

However, the match isn't bad, not by any means. The story that was told throughout, probably amplified by the concussion, was Taker not being able to keep up with Lesnar, and no matter what he did, Lesnar always was one step ahead. Hell, that's the story of the two men's rivalry. Lesnar has always had Taker's number, and even on the one stage where Taker was at his peak in resilience, he still couldn't defeat The Beast. It's not a great match, but the overall storytelling in the match makes it a good one. The streak ending is monumental, as shown by the fans at the arena, the outpour on twitter, and the super high rating/viewership for Raw the following night. The fact it ended will always make this match a special one, even if it's probably Taker's worst Mania match in 8 years (since the Henry one). 

Overall, ***1/4. The match isn't gonna get MOTN or MOTY, but moment of the year will easily go to the streak ending. Can't see anything topping that. I had my reservations about Brock ending the streak, but once it became clear that this was almost as much giving Heyman the streak as Lesnar, I'm cool with it. No one could run with the streak ending like Heyman can, and judging by his work so far, he's been killing it every week. One of the GOAT promos on Raw the following night, and getting massive heat for being the man behind the man that ended the streak. :clap

---

Bryan/HHH- ****
Wyatt/Cena- ***3/4
Bryan/Orton/Batista- ***3/4
Taker/Lesnar- ***1/4

And the rest of the card, can't see it changing from the ratings I gave those matches, although I'll give them a re-watch at some point in the future.

So for Mania as a whole, re-watching the four main matches, Bryan/HHH ends up as MOTN. Awesome match, and Wyatt/Cena and the triple threat main event were great as well. Taker/Lesnar wasn't bad either. Overall, an excellent Mania, though I don't know I'd put it above WM28. That event had Punk/Jericho at **** and MOTN, along with another match almost as awesome in Taker/HHH HIAC. The main event between Rock and Cena was great (***1/2), and Kane/Orton was really good as well (***1/4). The rest of the card compared to the rest of the WM30 is what puts this into question, as WM30's Shield match and Battle Royal I'd put above any other match on the WM28 one. 

Well, at least it wasn't a one match show like last year's.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ah fuck it, I'm rewatching the major Cena/Punk matches (MITB, SS, NOC and Raw 2013). That being said, I did rewatch Matt/Helms from No Mercy and it's absolutely wonderful, ***1/2 if not ***3/4 for that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Next stop is the Brock/Angle Iron Man SD match, which I admit I havn't watched in a good while now so I'm pretty damn excited for it. Think I'll leave it until later tonight though.

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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Make sure you watch the FULL Iron Man match with all the stuff from the ad breaks left in .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Which 01 show should I watch next? Saving RR,Summerslam,Backlash, and mania for the last 4 and so anything besides those and the three I've already seen would be good. 

I think thats only like 5 shows :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

JD 01 has some good shit .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Alright will start that (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Make sure you watch the FULL Iron Man match with all the stuff from the ad breaks left in .


Yeah mate, ill dig out the Brock Lesnar Here Comes The Pain DVD as I'm sure it's on there. 

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----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Going to start my WWE 2008 PPV escapade in a minute. Other than WM 24, I've never seen a full show from that year and I've seen very few matches from that year in general, so a lot of it shall be uncharted territory, I'm not even going to check the cards before I watch so hopefully there'll be some surprises and shockingly fun matches.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watched the Daniel Bryan Journey to Mania 30 doc on the network last night. Really enjoyed it. Bryan is such a humble dude that truly doesn't think that highly of himself or take any of what he has for granted. I really have this feeling that when I finally sit down and watch all of Mania (only saw the last 3 matches), it might just end up being my favorite Mania ever. Time will tell, but even in those last few matches it was such an emotional roller coaster.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock going after Stephanie the week before the Iron Man lol, just about to F5 her until Kurt made the save.

I said before, Brock was a great face imo, but fuck he is such a great fucking heel.

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----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Holy fucking shit. I hadn't watched Cena/Punk MITB in a long, long time, and I had it at ****3/4 steady. Now, it has gone up to ***** again. Everything about that match just clicked. Everything.

SummerSlam next. On last watch, I gave it ****1/4. Let's see now...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Their Summerslam 2011 match might be my favorite Summerslam main event ever. Either that or Cena/Bryan. I loved how Cena for once actually used his power advantage over a wrestler in his offense. This wasn't just another wrestler working on Cena and then Cena comes back. This felt like a true clash of the titans, but since it's Punk and Cena, it's even better than the other clash of the titan matches we've had in the WWE. I did a full-on review of it three threads ago, but my rating for it was *****1/2*. Their RAW match in August was awesome too. So yeah, LOL at that guy who came into this thread once and claimed that Punk's 2011 and 2012 wasn't that impressive.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah I totally forgot they had a Nº1 Contender's match on Raw the night after SummerSlam that I ADORED at the time, but I watched it ages ago so I don't remember.

Btw, to get myself even more hyped for the SS match, I decided to watch the build-up segments (basically every major Punk promo from the shoot all the way to the SS contract signing) :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Their Summerslam 2011 match might be my favorite Summerslam main event ever. Either that or Cena/Bryan. *I loved how Cena for once actually used his power advantage over a wrestler in his offense*. This wasn't just another wrestler working on Cena and then Cena comes back. This felt like a true clash of the titans, but since it's Punk and Cena, it's even better than the other clash of the titan matches we've had in the WWE. I did a full-on review of it three threads ago, but my rating for it was *****1/2*. Their RAW match in August was awesome too. So yeah, LOL at that guy who came into this thread once and claimed that Punk's 2011 and 2012 wasn't that impressive.


That's one of the big reasons I liked Cena/Bryan so much as well. (Y)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Holy fucking shit. I hadn't watched Cena/Punk MITB in a long, long time, and I had it at ****3/4 steady. Now, it has gone up to ***** again. Everything about that match just clicked. Everything.
> 
> SummerSlam next. On last watch, I gave it ****1/4. Let's see now...


Surely now you'll realize how boring it is, watching it right after MITB?

I rated it the same as you when I watched it live but then checked it out again a year or so later and it bored the shit out of me. If WWE's youtube still has it up, I might give it another chance to see if it gets any better. But as it stands, I prefer Rock/Booker to it for SummerSlam main events.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Actually I'm watching the promos first, not really back-to-back with MITB. Which means I probably won't hate it, Punk hatah unk


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Without looking up all the SS cards, I'd say Rock/Brock is still probably the best SS main event.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

ATF said:


> Holy fucking shit. I hadn't watched Cena/Punk MITB in a long, long time, and I had it at ****3/4 steady. Now, it has gone up to ***** again. Everything about that match just clicked. Everything.
> 
> SummerSlam next. On last watch, I gave it ****1/4. Let's see now...


Every Punk/Cena match is easily 4 stars or higher.

But that SummerSlam match though :banderas


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

All of those promos were just fantastic. Dayum, can we say Punk is possibly a Top 5 talker in the WWE history?

Right though, it's time for SummerSlam :cena4 unk :HHH2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'll have to re watch Rude/Steamboat, but at this moment Brock/Angle is the best Iron Man IMHO. Just near perfect pacing and overall structure, esp that first fall where Brock gets DQ'D, but obviously has an overall long term plan that pays off.

Amazing to think this was on SD. Oh the days.

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----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Rude/Steamboat is :mark: :mark: :mark:

I'm agreeing with Cal on the Backlash ME. Just can't get into it. Having even written anything about it yet :lmao


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watching the WM XX main event as a lead in to the Backlash main event.

*Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit - WHC Match - Wrestlemania XX
*
FUN match exchange from Benoit/Michaels early with various holds/pinning combinations. I really like the story coming in of Michaels wanting so badly to take the title from Hunter but he and Benoit's egos potentially getting the better of them. God, Benoit's strikes are so :mark: And those knee thrusts :mark: Michael's kips up after his flying clothesline, but Benoit hits NASTY clothesline, sending him over the top rope and GERMANS on the Game :mark: What a beautiful suplex, getting a great deal of air on the lift. Brief exchange between Hunter and Benoit: Hunter hits the superplex on Benoit after Michaels had been disposed of, getting several nearfalls. Hunter looks for the Pedigree, but Benoit reverses into the Crossface after a brief stuggle, but Michaels breaks up the count. Michaels hits a nice looking German suplex on Benoit, but Benoit counters the second one and hits a trio of his own, leading to a diving headbutt from the Canadian Crippler, leading to another nearfall. Benoit whips Michaels off the ropes, but Shawn hits his flying clothesline, sending Benoit out of the ring. Michaels kips up, and catches Hunter coming, hitting an inverted atomic drop, and his flying elbow. Michaels looks to setup for the superkic and he hits, and seemingly has the match won, but Benoit pulls the Heartbreak Kid out of the ring, saving the match for himself. Michaels looks to whip Michaels into the turnbuckle, but Benoit reverses, and looks for the Sharpshooter, but Shawn fights to avoid the submission but Benoit thinking on his feet, catapults him into the ring post. Lawler :lol "Shawn Michaels has smelled Sharpshooters before, he doesn't wanna be there!" Hunter catching Shawn's hand from tapping out :mark: Great tease there. Benoit looking for the German on the announce table :mark: Hunter counters out and looks for the Pedigree, but Benoit counters out. Michaels on the table. Double suplex to Benoit through the Spanish announce table :mark: Now Michaels has what he wants, and that is him and Hunter in the ring, one on one. (Also, I missed where Shawn would have bladed, but it didn't really add so much to the match. However, the image of Michaels calling Hunter into the ring with his face covered in blood is a real sight. Shawn runs Hunter into the ring, and he's busted open. Hunter hits the Pedigree but is so out of his mind that he can't make the cover. He slowly gets to the cover, and gets to 2 and Benoit is in to break up the count. Hunter is slowly back up and looks for the Pedigree, but Benoit counters furiously into the Sharpshooter :mark: Hunter's selling :mark: Benoit sits down, and in comes Michaels with a superkick right to the Wolverine. Michaels slowly gets to Benoit for a cover, and it's just 2. Michaels looks to setup for another superkick with both Hunter and Benoit down. He comes for Benoit but is tossed over the ring. Hunter looks to hit the Pedigree on Benoit, but the challenger slips out and locks in the Crossface. Triple H stays in the hold for a good deal of time, and is able to at least fight up to roll over but Benoit ferociously hangs on until the Game is forced to tap. I still just love this match. Terrific work from all three guys, and the ending is still a very cool moment, knowing the journey that Benoit had gone through after all those years. There's something about being in the business for so long and not winning your first World Title until pretty much the biggest match at the biggest show the company had ever had. *****1/2*

From *Backlash 200*4

*Shelton Benjamin Ric Flair
*
Shelton :mark: Naitch :mark: Shelton's matches with Hunter :mark: What is this theme that Flair used? Sounds like a variation on the theme is used during his post-2001 return. It's great. Shelton showing he's not intimated by Naitch, mocking him a bit. Flair flop off a slap :mark: Dat pop for thumb to the eye :lol Shelton pretty much no selling the leg stuff in his comeback. Another Flair Flop off the enziguri :mark: Not sure if Flair botched his over-the-turnbuckle-run-to-the-other-turnbuckle or if he was just selling the velocity by falling off the apron, but either way it was :lmao Looked like Flair was poised to use the brass knuckles, but Shelton hits the splash in the corner, and follows it up with a flying clothesline from the top for the win. So, Shelton beats Hunter two weeks in a row before this, he beats Naitch, and it basically sent nowhere. Match is okay. * ****

*Randy Orton vs Mick Foley - No Holds Barred*

Orton's backstage promo is damn good. Like, really damn good. Foley in Cactus attire :mark: Orton's drawn out the hardcore legend :mark: JR said Foley was the lightest he had been since 1989, and Mick did look in good shape. Backslide attempt on the ramp seems kind of random, but whatever. That look of fear on Orton's face after the attack with the bat wrapped in barbed wire tells a great story. The story of the young, arrogant wrestler who, while super confident coming in, really had no idea what he was getting himself into. Really great work from Orton there. Foley gonna light Barbie on fire :mark: Bischoff trying to talk him out of it, threatening to stop the show if he lights it up. Foley plays like he's gonna ignore Bischoff but throws the bat and lighter away. Shot to the head with a cookie sheet :mark: SHEET OF PLYWOOD WITH A BED OF BARBWIRE :mark: :mark: Crowd already chanting "holy shit". :lol JR, "My sentiments exactly." :lol Orton throws powder in Foley's face and hits a power slam on the bed of barbed wire for just a two count. Foley whipped into the bed of barbed wire in the corner. THUMB TACKS :mark: Marking for thumb tacks seems inhumane, but I know what's coming. Orton looking for the RKO on the thumb tacks, but Foley counters :mark: Lawler's reaction to Foley countering :lmao :lmao :lmao HUMAN PIN CUSHION :lmao Foley rolling him up but clearly trying to be gentle because of the thumb tacks in his back. Good Lord. Orton tries to peace out but Foley brings him back and THROWS HIM OFF THE STAGE. DAMN :mark: They attend to Orton, and try to tell Foley that it's over, but Foley blows them off and ELBOW OFF THE STAGE. :mark: :mark: "WE ARE WITNESSING A HUMAN DEMOLITION DERBY!" JR pretty much sums it up. Foley rolls Orton over for the cover but Orton manages to get a shoulder up. Double underhook DDT back in the ring. Just a two count! Holy shit at Orton getting such great booking in this match. Dude pretty much gets killed, yet withstands all of it to come back and win. Orton makes a comeback with the help of Barbie, but Foley comes back with Socko, and Orton is able to fight out. Foley is back in, but Orton hits the RKO from outta nowhere. KICK OUT. Foley has enough left to kick out, and Orton catches him with an RKO on Barbie. :mark: Damn at this match. Still love it. *****1/2*

*Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit - WHC Match*

Oof. Just can't get into this match this time. Loved it on last watch. Maybe it's because I'm tired, but this match also went super, super long. Feels a good bit longer than the Mania match. The Edmonton crowd is pretty good in spurts, but it doesn't really make up for the match. H getting catapulting into the ring post and bouncing into the third row :lmao Cool that Benoit made a different guy submit in each match. Yeah, this is like ****1/4*. What a contrast from my last viewing.

Edit: Sorry for the double post.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Punk V Cena MITB *****
Punk V Cena SS ****1/2
Punk V Cena Raw 2011 ****
Punk V Cena NOC ****1/4
Punk V Cena Raw 2013 ****1/2










Best match series in WWE history besides HBK V Taker.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SummerSlam I'm indecise between **** and ****1/4 right now. On one hand, it is a lot more wrestling-based than MITB and a lot smoother too, and I'd say some of the counters make the counters displayed in Bangle matches (yes, BANGLE) look like fucking beginners. And the storytelling was also pretty damn great - one of my favorite touches being HHH throwing Cena and Punk back into the ring. On the other... REST HOLDS. I'm not against methodical approach to a match, but for Christ sakes, the beggining of the match was rest hold galore. C2D had a bit of a point when he argued in the match being somewhat boring. Also, the ending... meh. Right now I think I'm going with ****1/4, but you never know.

Not sure if I'll watch the Raw match the next night tonight, since I'm bound for other stuff, but let's look at the Cal scale so far:

MITB: ***** (9)
SS: ****1/4 (6)
Overall: *15*

Two matches of theirs ALONE best dozens of PPV's by themselves.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> WWF v. Alliance tag goes way too long.


Bingo.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> :lmao ended up going to bed during the Backlash triple treat. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO WATCH THIS THING ALL THE WAY THROUGH!!!


I've actually struggled finishing it a lot of times too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just on the Brock championship 'celebration' after the SD Iron Man match. Taker comes out and it sets up the No Mercy match up. 

Had to :lol at Brock too, cos at the same time as that match was announced, Vince told Steph about their own little match, and I'm sure Lesnar blurted out the funniest 'Ha Ha' I've heard lol.

Tag team match next, Cena/Brock vs Taker/Angle. 

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----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Put me in the camp that isn't high on Backlash 04's main. I can finish it because I don't fall asleep watching wrestling and the match has to be extremely bad for me to turn it off mid-way (I have literally turned DX v. McMahons at Cyber Sunday off at the same point in the last 2 or 3 viewings), but it drags. 



ATF said:


> MITB: ***** (9)
> SS: ****1/4 (6)
> Overall: *15*
> 
> Two matches of theirs ALONE best dozens of PPV's by themselves.


well tbf it's a handicap to the PPVs when they have divas matches and two minute matches and shitty as fuck R-Truth matches all over them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DX vs McMahons or DX vs Rated RKO? if talking about Cyber Sunday _(2006)_ 8*D


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Aw, yeah, DX v. Rated RKO. I initially wrote DX v. McMahons Vengeance until I realised that wasn't the one w/ Bischoff. Or...a match, at all. IIRC they faced the cheerleaders at that show. Fuuuck me DX sucked in 2006.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It's been a while, but I love the Backlash Triple Threat. Michaels played a real nice heel that night and it featured Lawler's best moment on commentary when he questions the existence of Verne Gagne.

Austin/Benoit on 11/20/2000 :mark:. Stunning Steve returning for one night.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think I have Brock/Taker 'Biker chain' match up next at No Mercy. 

I watched this match a month ago when gave the PPV a viewing, it seems to get maligned alot but I enjoyed it. The chain didn't really come into play until nearing the end, which I liked as it allowed them to just go at it in the ring.

I do think this and their Unforgiven match are really underrated tbh, as everyone always talks about just the classic HIAC bout.

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----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Aw, yeah, DX v. Rated RKO. I initially wrote DX v. McMahons Vengeance until I realised that wasn't the one w/ Bischoff. Or...a match, at all. IIRC they faced the cheerleaders at that show. Fuuuck me DX sucked in 2006.


I watched that tag buzzed one night and was stunned at how good I actually thought it was. Was that only the alcohol permitting myself to enjoy it though? Do I dare try it sober? I dunno.

DX & sucking go hand in hand. You know that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Backlash triple threat is like a semi-ironman match. You have to be in the mood to be able to finish it & enjoy it. As much as I love it, it's not a match I can put on any time and sit through.

Funny how DX vs Rated RKO from Cyber Sunday is brought up as I've been meaning to rewatch it. Might as well take it to google now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I remember that CS tag being awful. Then the NYR match being solid but overrated to fuck.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Austin/Benoit on 11/20/2000 :mark:. Stunning Steve returning for one night.


That match RULES. Have you been going through 2000 WWF TV? Is there a better match than this other than the Grandmaster Sexay ten man?

did you see Rock/Taker v. Edge & Christian, btw? Think it's from the same time as Austin/Benoit. It's really fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

"Grandmaster Sexay 10 man tag" gave me this reaction: :sansa

Not sure why.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> That match RULES. Have you been going through 2000 WWF TV? Is there a better match than this other than the Grandmaster Sexay ten man?
> 
> did you see Rock/Taker v. Edge & Christian, btw? Think it's from the same time as Austin/Benoit. It's really fun.


What in god's green earth? We agree on something that doesn't have to do with Super Crazy? Yeah, I've been going through 2000. Should be finished by the end of the week. Besides the Dean Malenko ten man tag, I also loved:

Jericho/HHH (4/17), (6/12)
Rock/Benoit (3/6), (5/15), (8/7), (9/25), (11/16)
Jericho/Benoit (5/4)
Benoit/Malenko vs. Hardy Boyz (4/13)
Benoit/Saturn vs. Hardy Boyz (3/16)

I don't think I'll put any of these over Austin/Benoit. Maybe the Jericho/HHH 4/17 match. Haven't gotten to Rock/Taker vs. Edge & Christian, since that's in December and right now I'm watching William Regal wish us all a happy Thanksgiving. Basically, the entire year has been flooded by goodies from Rock, Benoit, Jericho, Hardyz, Rikishi, and Edge & Christian. And then you'll have HHH giving us good stuff when he wants to and other guys like Blackman, Test, ALBERT, Too Cool, Malenko, Angle, and X-Pac giving us good stuff. I was kinda upset at there not being many TAKA MICHINOKU goodies, but alas, the world can't be perfect.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

From the "Who do you consider to be the most overpushed superstar of all time?" thread:



> *Sheamus*, Batista, Ryback, etc. I don't think these guys were pushed to the moon or anything, but if it were up to me, they wouldn't have even been hired. *No wrestling skills, no charisma, no nothing going for them.* John Cena is definitely over-pushed but ATLEAST he has charisma and mic work. I don't ask for much but when you have literally NOTHING to bring to the table then you really shouldn't even be on the roster, let alone getting these big opportunities that other guys deserve.


Yup. This happened. OPINIONZ~... or stupidity. Who knows.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I negged that guy saying "please leave the forum" :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A) it's the WWE section. Everything there can make at least one person question what is going on.
B) Sheamus has a target on him despite being fabulous.
C) I dunno, it's the WWE section. Why go perusing in there? WHY?

I love Sheamus. There we go


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

1) Technically this thread - and the Funny Pictures one too - IS on the WWE section :side:
2) Sheamus has a target for being Super Cena V2, 99% of the IWC agrees he has great wrestling skills
3) Because it's fun 8*D

I love Sheamus too. Wrestling love that is.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I negged him with :sheamus.

Anybody who hates on FELLA should get sent into the deep red and even banned.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I negged him with :sheamus.
> 
> Anybody who hates on FELLA should get sent into the deep red and even banned.



I dont think Sheamus should be a world champ or anything but he absolutely should be in that upper mid card slot and occasionally be called on for a main event at a PPV here and there. He is just such a bad ass wrestler in the ring. His matches with Bryan, Show, Henry, Christian, etc are all fantastic pieces of work. Especially HiaC vs Show. Might be my favorite Big Show match and is my second fave from Sheamus (2/3 Falls with Bryan being the first).

Sheamus hate is annoying, but Henry hate pisses me off even more. I can't tell you how often I see people throw him out as one of the worst wrestlers on the roster. I think the exact opposite. I was hoping we would get Henry going back to the dark side soon and have him be Bryan's first big feud for the title after ER. Give those two 15-20 minutes at a PPV and you are guaranteeing greatness. All Henry needs is a few big wins on TV and then let him cut one of his dynamite heel promos and he will have all the credibility he needs to challenge for the title. He gets my vote for most underutilized talent on the roster as of right now (sorry Zigs).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well GAB 04 finally downloaded. Watching Rey Vs chavo. Better not suck like their NWO match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If you think that sucks, but like Angle vs Michaels - idc, any of them - then you're a lunatic.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Already established that I'm a lunatic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well then carry on. _*cal smiley*_


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chavo/Rey GAB is fabulous. Almost as good as Eddie/JBL from the same show. Then again I love Chavo/Rey NWO too, though GAB is definitely superior. And I like Angle/Michaels WM21. Y'all some picky mother fuckers 

Regal/Psychosis on Nitro is some serious, serious winning btw. Watching it for the third time in the last 2 weeks. I swear, Vince had to have seen the horrid commentary for this match and decided that's how he wanted the Raw commentary to be from now on. "I don't want you saying a single word about the match, dammit. The fans don't care about what kind of hold that is and why the wrestler might be applying it. They want endless plugs for other events and merchandise along with the occasional witless pop culture joke!" :vince3


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> Well then carry on. _*cal smiley*_












Genuinely the first thing in my bookmarks.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saved.

That's not weird.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Gingers are always funny. CAL should stop being a lazy fuck and try a career in comedy, I'm sure he would succeed.

Going back to Cyber Sunday 2006, I just got done with Rated RKO vs DX. Holds up just about the same as I remember it. ★★★¼ level. A bit dull during the standard portion but it's fun enough that I don't even notice the time passing by as fast as it does. (first time I checked, I was 24 minutes into a 35 minute video which was much more than I had expected) Finish I could've done without as Rated RKO deserved the clean win since DX completely squashed them in that crappy Survivor Series elimination match. New Year's Revolution tag is still much better but this is good.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cal doing stand up would be so GOAT, its a career path I've considered for the future actually 

Watching WM 9 ATM :|


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> What in god's green earth? We agree on something that doesn't have to do with Super Crazy? Yeah, I've been going through 2000. Should be finished by the end of the week. Besides the Dean Malenko ten man tag, I also loved:
> 
> Jericho/HHH (4/17), (6/12)
> Rock/Benoit (3/6), (5/15), (8/7), (9/25), (11/16)
> ...


I liked Jericho/HHH from June more than the Dusty Finish match. Man I remember none of those Rock/Benoits. I'm actually excited to check them out.

What did you think of HHH/Rock/Angle from 6/26/00? It might be my favourite WWF/E three-way. Also HHH/Benoit v. Rock/Jericho 4/24/00? 




The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I was hoping we would get Henry going back to the dark side soon and have him be Bryan's first big feud for the title after ER. Give those two 15-20 minutes at a PPV and you are guaranteeing greatness.


Well now I have to wipe my keyboard clean.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Well GAB 04 finally downloaded. Watching Rey Vs chavo. Better not suck like their NWO match.


OH FUCK OFF


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I liked Jericho/HHH from June more than the Dusty Finish match. Man I remember none of those Rock/Benoits. I'm actually excited to check them out.
> 
> What did you think of HHH/Rock/Angle from 6/26/00? It might be my favourite WWF/E three-way. Also HHH/Benoit v. Rock/Jericho 4/24/00?


I have no clue as to why I forgot about the HHH/Benoit vs. Rock/Jericho match. That tag match was loads of fun. They had another one on the 7/20 edition of Smackdown. Good but not great, thanks to the dumb finish. I just watched Stunning Steve Austin face Angle the week after he faced Benoit, and it was equally awesome. I also liked that three-way match, but I loved it more last year. I don't know what it was about this watch-through, but while it was good, it didn't flow as well as I remember it being. You should also watch Rock vs. Rikishi from 1/27 and Undertaker vs. Rikishi on 12/4. And really any Rikishi. And Too Cool vs. Val Venis and T&A on 7/13. And any Albert/A-Train/Giant Bernard/Lord Tensai/Jason Albert.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Well GAB 04 finally downloaded. Watching Rey Vs chavo. Better not suck like their NWO match.


Your a funny guy 

Did you like my rep? :side:


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Is it just.me or does this section suck for the most part except for this thread?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

No besides this thread the WWE section is a cesspool of idiocy


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

There's a reason why this is 1 of like 3 threads I post in on this entire forum.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Plus we all love Tajiri. The sign of harmony.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just had a loong and very very unique day in the city, beat and would love something to watch :hbk


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watch Ziggler/Bryan BR 2010, its what I'm about to watch


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Why does the WWE Network fuck with me with their upload selections? They have every RAW episode from this year up until 2/17 EXCEPT February 3rd, which is the one that has the Orton/Bryan match everyone raved about. :cuss: And for some reason only two episodes from January are up for Smackdown. At least I have all of NXT and Main Event to keep me occupied.



SKINS said:


> Just had a loong and very very unique day in the city, beat and would love something to watch :hbk


Watch the first 4 matches from Survivor Series 2010. FUN


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> Watch Ziggler/Bryan BR 2010, its what I'm about to watch


Two young studs stealing the show :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SKINS said:


> Just had a loong and very very unique day in the city, beat and would love something to watch :hbk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGOkpKHGG74

Behold pro wrestling at its peak.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah has posted that match so many times, but it's still so awesome.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> Watch Ziggler/Bryan BR 2010, its what I'm about to watch


Ehh I think Ive seen this over 10x and I'm not joking, match is :mark: worthy though top 5-10 and each men's match catalog 


Jack Evans 187 said:


> Why does the WWE Network fuck with me with their upload selections? They have every RAW episode from this year up until 2/17 EXCEPT February 3rd, which is the one that has the Orton/Bryan match everyone raved about. :cuss: And for some reason only two episodes from January are up for Smackdown. At least I have all of NXT and Main Event to keep me occupied.
> 
> 
> Watch the first 4 matches from Survivor Series 2010. FUN


:lol yea have to watch it though, favorite orton match in years



Yeah1993 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGOkpKHGG74
> 
> Behold pro wrestling at its peak.


Funny enough as my gimmick in here has become the guy that hasnt seen anything, Ive actually seen this many of times, great great match, one more wouldnt hurt.

Really intrigued by that Austin/Benoit raw 00 match, never seen it


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

And we all love Meng. Can't forget about that.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah1993 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGOkpKHGG74
> 
> Behold pro wrestling at its peak.


That... that was awesome! GOAT 3-minute match.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

SKINS said:


> Ehh I think Ive seen this over 10x and I'm not joking, match is :mark: worthy though top 5-10 and each men's match catalog


How about their matches at the Raw and Smackdown after the Bragging Rights match? Basically they had three matches, three nights in a row and all of them are fun to watch.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Why does the WWE Network fuck with me with their upload selections? They have every RAW episode from this year up until 2/17 EXCEPT February 3rd, which is the one that has the Orton/Bryan match everyone raved about. :cuss


Forget the Network, take 30 minutes out of your time and watch the match here in glorious HD. 

k1esFxLW7iUm4d5mlom

Have you seen their 16/12/2013 match yet? That one is just as good and possibly even better. I'm really undecided between which I prefer. Either way, they smoke all their other matches.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> How about their matches at the Raw and Smackdown after the Bragging Rights match? Basically they had three matches, three nights in a row and all of them are fun to watch.


Ziggler/Bryan matches :mark: These guys really bring it in the ring. They had a couple of matches on Raw last year ,iirc, and both were also fun. Bragging Rights is the best, though, IMO. 

Watched the Meng match. Agreed with #BadNewsSanta.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

Yeah1993 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGOkpKHGG74
> 
> Behold pro wrestling at its peak.


That's about as good as a match less than 3 minutes can be. Shit was awesome.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGOkpKHGG74
> 
> Behold pro wrestling at its peak.


I feel like I was given the greatest tasting food of all time but told I could only have 1 bite.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

That was great. Yeah, I wish it had gone on longer, but there was something powerful about it ending in one move after all of that. Felt very warrior-esque, like all it takes is one sword to the heart for it to be all over. And it had to be something quick & spontaneous like that, 'cause otherwise, dude would fight you to the finish.

Well done. 


Someone pick a Rick Rude match for me to watch, but not the Steamboat Iron Man match (saving that), nor the MSG one vs. Jake the Snake (recently watched that).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

summerslam 90 vs. Ultimate Warrior (Cage)


@SEJ yea Ive seen the series, raw match w/ Phil on commentary and the SD w/ Vickie in the cat suit (Yes this is how I remember things


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just watched *Orton vs. Bryan from 2/3*. Thanks again for the link, C2D. I liked it a lot, but I didn't love it. Limbwork and selling from both guys were top notch plus Orton's facial expressions were wonderful. The bulk of the match kept building and building but I didn't feel like they got out of 2nd gear. The finish was totally sudden. I was literally like, oh ok it's over... Still quality stuff but I have it the same rating as their HIAC match (which I enjoyed up until the screwy finish.) High end **** 1/2* for it because I felt like I got most of a good match then cheated by the last minute or two. Orton vs. Cesaro gave me more enjoyment.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

MoxleyMoxx said:


> *THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR
> THE ULTIMATE COLLECTION
> (DVD)*
> 
> ...


Oh, MoxleyMoxx, Warrior vs. Rude at Summerslam '89 is something on Warrior's new DVD that I didn't have before. Misread and thought it said '90. Good to see that you gave the '89 match four stars, 'cause that's one of those "good Warrior matches" that I haven't seen in eons, and remember nothing about.

Gonna go watch that now, and then I'm gonna watch the Summerslam '90 match, 'skins. Want to go in order.

I only have very vague memories of that '90 match, so it'll be fun to re-watch now. What did you think of it?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm not SKINS but I'll chime in. Rude vs. Warrior in the Cage is short, bloody fun. Not a classic by any means but a fine way to kill 10 minutes. Think I chucked *** at it when I reviewed Warrior's original DVD. Could've been something great with more time. They seemed to rush through things.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGOkpKHGG74
> 
> Behold pro wrestling at its peak.


gonna be the millionth person to quote this b/c I have a funny anecdote behind this atm. I said it was either going to be MENG vs Giant or something w/Jerry Blackwell. Nailed it.

Danielson vs Ziggler from Bragging Rights does rule.

Danielson vs Orton this year rules. Love it. Cesaro vs Orton, eh. I mean it is pretty good. But that's all. So from comparison sake it's a HUGE gap. Nothing much outside of it, but at least it is good. b/c all their other matches from 2013 are disgusting.


----------



## Arm-Bar1004 (Mar 7, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> gonna be the millionth person to quote this b/c I have a funny anecdote behind this atm. I said it was either going to be MENG vs Giant or something w/Jerry Blackwell. Nailed it.
> 
> Danielson vs Ziggler from Bragging Rights does rule.
> 
> Danielson vs Orton this year rules. Love it. Cesaro vs Orton, eh. I mean it is pretty good. But that's all. So from comparison sake it's a HUGE gap. Nothing much outside of it, but at least it is good. b/c all their other matches from 2013 are disgusting.


I did not expect a match that short to be that good so that was a nice surprise.

No arguing there.

Was that the one that ended in a low blow? That was my favorite in the series. Also I don't really remember how Cesaro/Orton went. I feel Cesaro can get something good out of almost anyone.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh nah, the low blow one was the match in December following TLC. The Feb match was from this year where Danielson got the clean pin on Orton as it was leading to Elimination Chamber.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGOkpKHGG74
> 
> Behold pro wrestling at its peak.


Oh fuck you Curly, at this rate I'm gonna be watching this match every month until the day I die in the mass orgy that'll happen on Sauchiehall Street one Friday morning at 4am.

You know what though? I'll always be happy to do so. 

Here peeps, have the best 6 minute match ever (CODY ITS OUR ONE)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSvkf0KCV-I

(Might not actually be the best 6 minute match ever, there's a few Benoit/Regal matches that most likely have it beat and a few real obvious ones I'm forgeting but FUCK IT FINGER BITING AND JAR SMASHING AND STUMP PILEDRVING)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh shit YES. The piledriver used to win - FUCK YES.

people need to quote this 10 times now


----------



## Superhippy (Jan 28, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I dont think Sheamus should be a world champ or anything but he absolutely should be in that upper mid card slot and occasionally be called on for a main event at a PPV here and there. He is just such a bad ass wrestler in the ring. His matches with Bryan, Show, Henry, Christian, etc are all fantastic pieces of work. Especially HiaC vs Show. Might be my favorite Big Show match and is my second fave from Sheamus (2/3 Falls with Bryan being the first).
> 
> Sheamus hate is annoying, but Henry hate pisses me off even more. I can't tell you how often I see people throw him out as one of the worst wrestlers on the roster. I think the exact opposite. I was hoping we would get Henry going back to the dark side soon and have him be Bryan's first big feud for the title after ER. Give those two 15-20 minutes at a PPV and you are guaranteeing greatness. All Henry needs is a few big wins on TV and then let him cut one of his dynamite heel promos and he will have all the credibility he needs to challenge for the title. He gets my vote for most underutilized talent on the roster as of right now (sorry Zigs).



I really don't understand all of the Sheamus hate either. If they turn him heel and have him face Bryan again this entire forum is going to act like they never said anything bad about him. Another really great match that he had that many people forget about was against Wade Barrett on Main Event (May 27th 2013). I loved it the 1st time and just watched it again recently and it's a solid ****. I am one of the few though that didn't really like his match with Batista on Smackdown. Something felt off during it. Not horrible though, I just think they could do better.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> Someone pick a Rick Rude match for me to watch, but not the Steamboat Iron Man match (saving that), nor the MSG one vs. Jake the Snake (recently watched that).


Seen Rude/Pillman 2/15/92? It's sort of what people praise that HHH/TAKA match for but instead of being ''slightly fun but very over-hyped'' it's ''utterly and totally excellent''. Rude/Dustin 5/30/92 too which is probably less underdog-y but even better than Rude/Pillman. IIRC Rude/Dustin came close to my top 50 during he WCW list times.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> gonna be the millionth person to quote this b/c I have a funny anecdote behind this atm. I said it was either going to be MENG vs Giant or something w/Jerry Blackwell. Nailed it.


;D 

Jerry Blackwell is also pro wrestling at its peak, though. Best super heavyweight behind Vader.



Craig said:


> Oh fuck you Curly, at this rate I'm gonna be watching this match every month until the day I die in the mass orgy that'll happen on Sauchiehall Street one Friday morning at 4am.


Yeah I've actually lost count how many times I've watched the match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, you cats put on matches that I myself love a great deal too, but here's a pick from me for the shits & giggles of the situation:






it's god damn BLISS.

---------

I tells ya, I don't recall Rude vs Rhodes from 1992. I know they worked in 1993 and it wasn't what it should have been. Sadly, a statement to come out of WCW 1993 way too much, but yeah. 1992 match is a blur. Typed it in on youtube just to find it, but instead found Dustin Rhodes vs Cactus Jack in 1992 & Dustin vs Terry Funk from 1994. I'll take 'em.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

what was the 6 man that was being pimped last month? with Nikita and a few other guys.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_OWJzURB1s


edit - Arn/Zbyszko/Eaton v. Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff 5/23/92


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Business has just picked up.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think many people admit (including myself) that Sheamus is good in the ring and has had a bunch of great matches over the last couple of years. But don't you just hate it when they hand him the mic? He's acceptable when he's being serious and he says 'arse' in the delightfully Irish way, but 98% of the time he goes for the jokey, cheesy shit and it's hard to watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No complaints whatsoever and think most hoot & holler too often about something that isn't even worth getting a little worked up over. Everyone in WWE has their standard format when blabbering on a mic. And most of it isn't interesting. Sheamus is no different. Heck, it's no different than loads of junk previously said in the past. Only today he doesn't have the benefit of nostalgia helping him out.

----------

Not like it isn't obvious or something you know, Moops, but Rhodes vs Rude was another shade of beauty. I swear I don't think I've ever seen that before until right now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Had a request for this: 

*Sting vs The Great Muta (WCW-NJPW Supershow 1991)*

x1q7e4a


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Hayley, mic work kinda IS worth getting worked over. I know you may not care about it, and yes, 70 to 89% of this whole thing is surely in-ring work, but guys that don't really have an interesting character and good mic work aren't exactly what I call the total package, and are much more likely to not get over than those that do (even if some of those do suck in the ring). Sure, there are some exceptions throughout history - Benoit and Bret for example. But not all guys have the in-ring skills of those two. Ryback is a good shout: he sucks in the ring, but he is entertaining at whatever else he does. Which is why having good character and mic work is always a plus. That being said, in-ring work still matters more.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Another upload from moi: 

*Sting & Hulk Hogan vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson (WCW Monday Nitro 12.11.1995)*

x1q7yrs


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Completely missing the point of what I'm saying. It's how most don't apparently understand WWF/WWE minutia after all these years yet, still try and "complain" about the fact if someone is running down the same themes within their promos. Obviously promos & characters matter in the grand scheme of things & to myself personally. If they didn't then I'd be the biggest Tyson Kidd fan ever. And spoiler alert; I am not. Don't happen to care whatsoever about the "he's a total package" type deal either. Such a dense way to look at so many workers. Sheamus can talk fine, but are his promos any good? No, not really. Doesn't stop me from thinking any different on how fabulous the dude is. Simple. Not to mention this type of thinking is only popular among American wrestling, tbhayley. Completely different when it comes to any sort of comparisons at the end of the day.

Still chuckle at the Benoit & Bret exceptions whenever the total package thing is used by folk. How is that even appropriate logic? If you're living by the sword of abiding by the definition of Total Package, then you die by the sword. Exceptions just poke holes in the logic. IE proving that one shouldn't follow under that structure to begin w/. Wrestling isn't filled w/Mick Foley's & Steve Austin's around every corner. That's why they're where they are at w/so many folk.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Cody posting Goldberg vs Raven warms my heart.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just nearing the Brock/Benoit SD match.  A PPV match would have been awesome, it could have gone that way I guess but Benoit went to Raw and got the WHC and of course Eddie won the WWE title. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Completely missing the point of what I'm saying. It's how most don't apparently understand WWF/WWE minutia after all these years yet, still try and "complain" about the fact if someone is running down the same themes within their promos. Obviously promos & characters matter in the grand scheme of things & to myself personally. If they didn't then I'd be the biggest Tyson Kidd fan ever. And spoiler alert; I am not. Don't happen to care whatsoever about the "he's a total package" type deal either. Such a dense way to look at so many workers. Sheamus can talk fine, but are his promos any good? No, not really. Doesn't stop me from thinking any different on how fabulous the dude is. Simple. Not to mention this type of thinking is only popular among American wrestling, tbhayley. Completely different when it comes to any sort of comparisons at the end of the day.
> 
> Still chuckle at the Benoit & Bret exceptions whenever the total package thing is used by folk. How is that even appropriate logic? If you're living by the sword of abiding by the definition of Total Package, then you die by the sword. Exceptions just poke holes in the logic. IE proving that one shouldn't follow under that structure to begin w/. Wrestling isn't filled w/Mick Foley's & Steve Austin's around every corner. That's why they're where they are at w/so many folk.


Well if by all of that you meant that you don't really care about details in promos and such things, and if you do good with a guy that can talk just fine enough but still is great in the ring for e.g., I do agree. I'm a huge Wade Barrett fan, and that philosophy applies in a reverse way - the guy is far from a Daniel Bryan in the ring, he's not even that good tbh, but he's just decent enough for me to enjoy his stuff. And I'm a big fan of his promo work in counterpart. That being said, you did miss point in what I meant by "total package". I'm not saying that is what you should be looking for everytime a new guy debuts or something. Of course not. What I said is that guys with a "total package" kind-of deal are more likely to become over with a crowd than guys who are just good in the ring. I used the Benoit and Bret exceptions because they are guys that got over by being nothing more than spectacular in the ring. They earned the respect of the fans by their stellar work alone. Hell, if Benoit had a gimmick, it was simply being a wrestling machine. That's it. That being said, it's hard to deny that neither of those guys were exactly even "fine" talkers, not imo at least. Sure, they never needed to be good talkers - they do say actions speak louder than words, and in their case, it's certainly true - but, imho, I'd be more likely (not certain though) to cheer for a guy like Randy Savage, CM Punk, Ric Flair or the two you mentioned (two of my all-time favorites) over them, simply because they can really go in the ring but they also have the everything else that works out.

With all of that said, let's just put this thing behind, shall we? We both agree Sheamus is fabulous. And Foley is fabulous. And Austin too. And Benoit and Bret too. And Savage, and Punk and Flair.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I hope if we do get Brock/Bryan, we see the 'Brock Lock'. Awesome move imo. I'd want to see a different sort of match that we are used to if they meet, but if course Brock using his power is always nice.

I understand Brock is in the UFC gimmick mode now, but I do want to see more of his old wrestling self from time to time, plus he is trained in Jujitsu and kickboxing so.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Triple H vs The Undertaker III (***3/4, I like this match but definitely think it took a backseat to Punk/Jericho & Rock/Cena in terms of quality. Shawn's D-grade acting really hampered it and would have much preferred NHB stipulation thrice given how it was executed)


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Oh yea and Triple H's constant "End it or I will" sounds like a child nagging. Eh, yet :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I refuse giving Taker/Trips HIAC any less than ****3/4. I just refuse it. I may be biased, but fuck it. That match means A LOT to me - you just can't comprehend how much. Nor you will cause I won't let you 8*D


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock/Mysterio SD on next. Fuck yeah. 

Anyone that says Brock mic skills are bad need to watch his original run, he was just fine enough, no mistakes or anything. 

I would say one thing, it did seem Brock and Show were joined at the hip for a lot of the time lol.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Still trying to watch all Jericho matches but I've been slacking off a lot lately. Just watched the tag match from Invasion yesterday. It's pretty good; maybe a tad too long but I liked most of it (***1/2).

He had like the greatest week ever after Judgment Day though. Won the Tag Team Titles /w Benoit after an amazing match against HHH/Austin on RAW and then defeated them in another awesome TLC match on Smackdown.

Best PPV from 2001 so far was the Ladder match against Benoit obviously.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

And another upload, people may enjoy this one: 

*Dangerous Alliance vs Sting’s Squadron (Wargames) (Wrestlewar 05.17.1992)*

Live PPV Version - Jesse Ventura's commentary intact.

x1q988q


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> I refuse giving Taker/Trips HIAC any less than ****3/4. I just refuse it. I may be biased, but fuck it. That match means A LOT to me - you just can't comprehend how much. Nor you will cause I won't let you 8*D


I really don't like that match at all. I've seen it twice and I can almost guaruntee I'll never sit through it again. The beginning was mostly good but Shawn's corny acting and the stupid shit Trips kept doing absolutely murdered any chance of me liking it. "END IT OR I WILL!". Fuck is that? If you could end it so easily Hunter, you should have fucking done it. This is WM and this is Undertakers Streak. No one in their right mind would ever think that Shawn was just going to "end" the match, whatever that means. How exactly was Shawn supposed to "end it". It's a Hell in a Cell match for Christ sakes. There is no disqualification. So was Shawn supposed to just call for the bell and screw Taker? Even in kayfabe I don't think that makes any sense whatsoever. There was just a lot of laying around and a lot of boring bullshit after the first 10 minutes or so. Every bit of "drama" felt so forced and cheesy. Taker was fine I guess but Hunter and Shawn's acting makes the acting in the "Scary Movie" franchise look like it should have been nominated for an Academy Award. This wasn't as bad as WM 27, which is up there with my least favorite Undertaker matches ever, but it was certainly not a worthy Streak match, not after the amazing matches Taker had from WM 23, 24, 25, 26, and 29. I'm probably in the minority but I think WM 17>>>>>>WM28 and 27. Watching it live I actually thought WM 28 was an abomination, but it went up slightly on the rewatch. I think if I were forced to give it a star rating I'd give it ***1/2, no more.



The Hitman said:


> Brock/Mysterio SD on next. Fuck yeah.
> 
> Anyone that says Brock mic skills are bad need to watch his original run, he was just fine enough, no mistakes or anything.
> 
> ...


Brock was definitely solid on promos, he just absolutely hates doing them. Apparently after ER with Cena, Brock told WWE "I'm not doing promos anymore, you need to bring Paul back I ain't doing this shit anymore" :lmao



The Hitman said:


> And another upload, people may enjoy this one:
> 
> *Dangerous Alliance vs Sting’s Squadron (Wargames) (Wrestlewar 05.17.1992)*
> 
> ...



Best "big match" ever IMO. Just look at the quality of workers all in that one match. It's staggering.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually prefer War Games 91 over 92. The lasting image of Pillman nearly dying was powerful.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hitman, have you watched the Brock Lesnar Vs Bubba Ray Dudley match from the KOTR tournament on RAW in 2002 (I think)? It's a short, but fantastic big man match that features Brock throwing Bubba around with suplex after suplex after suplex. It has a fantastic pace and like most early Brock matches, it's short but astounding in quality. Brock has some of the best offense I've ever seen, to be completely honest. Everything that fucker does just looks COOL.

I haven't been watching much wrestling, but I'm going to watch XXX in full for the first time now after checking out the marquee matches when they happened. HHH's entrance alone gives this show approx. 45.2 on the CAL SCALE.

HHH Vs The Undertaker from Wrestlemania XXVIII was just different. I've flip flopped on it many times but I think it will ultimately deserve it's legacy as a Wrestlemania classic from two icons (even if HBK was overacting a little, and by little I mean, a fucking LOT) on a show which delivered the hype that it had promised with Rock Vs Cena I, a match that I honestly LOVE (damn it Rock) .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't understand what's SO wrong about the whole "End it or I will" shit. Trips had Taker down and out, and was telling Shawn to just screw Taker and get that whole thing done with before he hurt him more, in short words. In your honest kayfabe opinion, can you blame him? It's Taker, it's HIAC and it's The Streak.

HATERS. :side:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Hitman, have you watched the Brock Lesnar Vs Bubba Ray Dudley match from the KOTR tournament on RAW in 2002 (I think)? It's a short, but fantastic big man match that features Brock throwing Bubba around with suplex after suplex after suplex. It has a fantastic pace and like most early Brock matches, it's short but astounding in quality. Brock has some of the best offense I've ever seen, to be completely honest. Everything that fucker does just looks COOL.


Yeah mate, mentioned it last week just couldn't remember the date of it. It's bloody fantastic as you say, Bubba Ray is just as good in his role as Brock, definitely a forgotten match. (Y)

I said before, I want Brock to use some of his old offense again now. Be great if he faces Bryan and busts out the 'Brock Lock '. 

Just onto Brock/Holly from the Rumble, shame Brock had to deal with this feud at this point, I can understand his frustrations at the booking around this time tbh, but at least Brock is Brock. No Way Out soon :mark:

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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And then after NWO... it's GOLDBERG at WM 8*D.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> And then after NWO... it's GOLDBERG at WM 8*D.


Yay lol. 

Just watched Brock F5 him at the Rumble. I get why this match would have to happen, it's just a shame the circumstances overshadowed it and took it over.

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----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

On paper, Brock Vs Goldberg is fucking AMAZING.

It's a shame that it turned out to be one of the most infamous matches ever for all the wrong reasons :lol.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

Cover of the new 30 Years of WrestleMania Book


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I just love Lesnar coming down in that Sombrero hat. :lol

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----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

I love the fact there is only one superstar who represents the last 10 years (Cena)!!! 

Damn the main guy is Bret hart. Sweet!


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

about to watch Jericho vs Rhyno at Summerslam

sounds meh


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That cover makes me wish for a new All Stars game :side:

I hope they also have the WM 30 moments in that book.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

JY57 said:


> Cover of the new 30 Years of WrestleMania Book


Someone is way out of place, guess who ?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DoubtGin said:


> about to watch Jericho vs Rhyno at Summerslam
> 
> sounds meh


I could be wrong, but im sure that's pretty darn good, unless I'm thinking of another Rhyno match. 

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----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

SKINS said:


> Someone is way out of place, guess who ?


Shawn Michaels? :


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SKINS said:


> Someone is way out of place, guess who ?


Ric Flair since he never main evented the show. 

If you mean Triple H, then I disagree. He should be here just for his list of opponents alone. The most impressive in Wrestlemania history by far.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

DoubtGin said:


> about to watch Jericho vs Rhyno at Summerslam
> 
> sounds meh


Not even close to being meh tbh . Probably second best match on the card, actually. Tie between that and X-Pac/Tajiri, anyway.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Savage seems out of place considering they won't put the guy in the HOF.

Watched the rematch between Dallas & Neville on NXT for the Championship. Pretty good match. Nothing too special but solid work from both guys. Great nearfall after Dallas gets the knees up for the attempted corkscrew shooting star, if only the ref didn't pause at the top of his count. Badass finish for sure. ***


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

For whatever reason, it took me a few double-takes to realise that was HBK and not Spanky on the cover. This comment didn't help, either:



SKINS said:


> Someone is way out of place, guess who ?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

So yea, the Jericho vs Rhyno was actually pretty good. Nothing special, but I expected much worse.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I just witnessed William Regal do a promo about how Alabamans should stop performing bestiality :lmao.

Jericho/Rhyno is really good. I'm probably gonna NO Jericho/Kane during my watch-through for Armageddon. I used to really like it, but in my most recent watch, I felt like I was forcing myself to like it. Which was how I felt about Cena/JBL from JD 05 :side:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Which was how I felt about Cena/JBL from JD 05 :side:


You forcing yourself to like something from 2005? That's a lie, if anything you intentionally try to dislike everything about that year.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm at the end of my Brock project, I gotta watch Brock/Goldberg. 

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----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Why does ff hate 2005 anyway? Never understood that.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Hating 05 is blasphemy, I may have a certain......... ADORATION of 2005 thanks to it being the year I got back into wrestling.

What match got me back in you ask? Was it an Eddie/Rey match? Was it Cena/JBL? Hell a Rumble would make sense right?

It was Undertaker Vs Muhhamad Hassan. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Why does ff hate 2005 anyway? Never understood that.


An irrational hatred for Batista and Cena.

I hate 2012 even more than he hates 2005 thanks to Punk but at least to my credit, that year was largely shit regardless of the main event scene.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Craig said:


> Hating 05 is blasphemy, I may have a certain......... ADORATION of 2005 thanks to it being the year I got back into wrestling.
> 
> What match got me back in you ask? Was it an Eddie/Rey match? Was it Cena/JBL? Hell a Rumble would make sense right?
> 
> It was Undertaker Vs Muhhamad Hassan. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh.


Really? Wow...

...

....

Adore that Dexter's Lab sig.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

ATF said:


> Really? Wow...
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Well to be exact: It was July 2005, It was the summer holidays and I was up at 2 in the morning looking for something to watch, I meant to put 301 into the remote which would have taken me to the movie channels, instead I pushed 401 and The Great American Bash 05 was on, I'd stopped watching Wrestling in late 01 when I didn't have any access to it, I turned on just as Taker was making his entrance and my first thought was "Is that Undertaker? Is he a zombie again? Shit I better watch this!" then the last ride through the stage astounded me, I ducked in and out of watching stuff over the next few months, my interest was there though, went to the library that week and picked up Foley Is Good and it was brilliant and then I continued jumping in and out until the first Friday Night Smackdown, the Eddie/Rey cage match made me start watching every week. I wish I could go back to that time when this was all so fresh to me and I wasn't aware what was good and bad quality wise, when I was just as happy watching a JBL/Batista bullrope match as I was watching Undertaker/Angle.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Brock/Austin brawl before Mania makes me even sadder Steve had to retire when he did, it was great seeing them in the buildup and a match would have been ace. 

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----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Craig said:


> Well to be exact: It was July 2005, It was the summer holidays and I was up at 2 in the morning looking for something to watch, I meant to put 301 into the remote which would have taken me to the movie channels, instead I pushed 401 and The Great American Bash 05 was on, I'd stopped watching Wrestling in late 01 when I didn't have any access to it, I turned on just as Taker was making his entrance and my first thought was "Is that Undertaker? Is he a zombie again? Shit I better watch this!" then the last ride through the stage astounded me, I ducked in and out of watching stuff over the next few months, my interest was there though, went to the library that week and picked up Foley Is Good and it was brilliant and then I continued jumping in and out until the first Friday Night Smackdown, the Eddie/Rey cage match made me start watching every week. I wish I could go back to that time when this was all so fresh to me and I wasn't aware what was good and bad quality wise, when I was just as happy watching a JBL/Batista bullrope match as I was watching Undertaker/Angle.


Ah yes man, those stories of when you are young and your markdom for whatever the fuck is going on in wrestling outstages anything else.

I have an even more "embarassing" story than you do tbh - WM 23. I was (literally) a young viewer, but I had been following in and out since late 2005. I missed WM 22 in the meantime, so WM 23 turned out to be my first ever "live" (more like unspoiled) WM. My most anticipated match in the card? Kane vs. Khali. No, not the Battle of the Billionaires, not Taker/Batista, not Cena/Michaels, not even MITB. Kane/Khali. Simply because I just wanted to see two giants beat the holy Jesus out of each other. What happens? For my Portuguese network's taste at the time, WM 23 ran too long so they had to cut off something. They cut that match off. I was VERY dissapointed upon that. But hey, the show still satisfied me nonethless. Plus, I watched the match since, and... it kinda sucked. Still, back then, I really wouldn't know.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

To my credit, I actually somehow liked Orton/HHH from the Royal Rumble. So don't push things too far C2D, or else my opinion will sour again. I probably should have used a better example though, like Cena/HHH from NoC 2008. Used to love that match, then I rewatched it and it felt like a forced classic where nothing meaningful happened in the first half, and finishers were spammed at the end. But it's perfectly rational to think that Mysterio/Eddie was not a good feud.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

05 wrestling stories? I QUIT watching in 05. After WM, with Cena on top facing JBL, and Batista on the other side with HHH, then switching brands and JBL STILL in the title scene? Urgh. I just didn't care. Hated JBL back then, not so much "he's great heel" but "I hate his style and he bores me and I don't like his matches" way. Never cared for Cena. Batista I actually kinda liked as the big powerhouse of Evolution, but once he was stuck with JBL and having shitty matches I gave up. Undertaker was part time at this point too which didn't help. I'd read results every week and if Undertaker was appearing I'd watch, but otherwise I didn't bother. BUT I had bought tickets to my first Raw taping for November later that year before I stopped watching, so I knew I'd have to get back into it again for that so I'd know what was happening. I was putting it off until the day of No Mercy, and I saw an advert for the show with UNDERTAKER in a casket match and EDDIE GUERRERO wrestling for the title. I ordered it and watched it live and that was me back into wrestling .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I thought a Bret chant started up early on. I do wonder what Stone Cold and indeed Vince
was thinking as this match was going on. DUD city and a crying fucking shame, it was plainly
obvious niether of them give a shit, if they did it could of been pretty good IMO, a heated brawl at least with the story going into it. Oh well. Roll forward to 2012 and Brock is back so....

Oh, i quit watching in 2005 too lol, just had other things going on, came back around the start-middle 2009, although i did watch a couple of Mania's between those years and the odd Raw when i flicked the channels.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I was looking through all of my Notepad-written STARZ~ for PPV's, and I looked at the card of Cyber Sunday 2008, and that thing looks LOADED according to my ratings. I have Matt/Bourne at ***3/4, HHH/Jeff at ***1/2 and the Taker/Show LMS at ****1/4. And most of the other stuff is enjoyable too. Wonder if I'm overrating or if that is just a forgotten gem of a PPV :hmm:


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

When did HHH/Umaga happen again? was it a street fight? good match from what I remember.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If you're talking about their Street Fight, that was Cyber Sunday 07. Same show that had Batista/Taker with SCSA as ref.

I'm talking about 08 here. And damn, that show looks shockingly great according to my ratings.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ATF said:


> I was looking through all of my Notepad-written STARZ~ for PPV's, and I looked at the card of Cyber Sunday 2008, and that thing looks LOADED according to my ratings. I have Matt/Bourne at ***3/4, HHH/Jeff at ***1/2 and the Taker/Show LMS at ****1/4. And most of the other stuff is enjoyable too. Wonder if I'm overrating or if that is just a forgotten gem of a PPV :hmm:


I can't remember anything else on that card but those three matches are at least very good so it probably is a strong show.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It says that the rest of the card was Kane/Mysterio No Holds Barred (I gave it **3/4), Miz & Morrison/Cryme Tyme (**), Santino/Honky Tonk Man (DUD for the match itself but the entire segment was very fun iirc) and Jericho/Batista (***). Oh, and the Divas had a Halloween Costume Contest, they looked HAWT.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ATF said:


> It says that the rest of the card was Kane/Mysterio No Holds Barred (I gave it **3/4), Miz & Morrison/Cryme Tyme (**), Santino/Honky Tonk Man (DUD for the match itself but the entire segment was very fun iirc) and Jericho/Batista (***). Oh, and the Divas had a Halloween Costume Contest, they looked HAWT.


The Kane/Mysterio '08 matches were good. Looks like a fun show for sure.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

How was Shawn/Orton from CS 07?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Brothers and sisters, please watch the first ten minutes of this video. Vince McMahon puts on an all-time great heel performance. And then afterwards, Undertaker beats the shit out of Raven.



Seriously guys. Vince McMahon is so good that he was able to turn what on paper was a shitty divorce storyline into something GOAT.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Had a request for this. 

*Ric Flair vs Randy Savage - WCW Great American Bash 1995*

x1qblu9


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> Brock/Mysterio SD on next. Fuck yeah.
> [/color]


Actually went on my own Brock run yesterday. Started off watching him vs Rock...but of course once I watch a Brock match I'm captivated and have to watch more. So watched vs Angle @ SS, vs Angle Ironman, vs Mysterio on SD!. 

That SD! match vs Mysterio is great. It shows Lesnar being an animal but also most of Rey's offense looks realistic which is incredible considering. Awesome awesome match.

I cannot even fathom the catalog of matches he'd have now had he stayed around the entire time.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

funnyfaces, what about UF 03 for Shawn & Randall?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Both Cyber Sunday 07 and Unforgiven 03 are fun matches for Orton & Shawn. Survivor Series is the real deal, though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Loved doing the Brock project. :mark: Just a shame it had to end with that complete no show at Mania 20, so much awesomeness before that. Oh well, i may now watch his return feud with Cena, i still think for such a short feud, the build up was so well done. The match of course is great, apart from the finish lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

UF 03 HBK/Orton is trash. TRASH I TELLS YA. CS match I just remember being more of a feud advancer leading into SVS. And of course SVS is :mark: and is the only match you really need to see from the two of them.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Brock/Cena brawl on Raw before their match is :mark: :mark: :mark:. When they brought everybody out to separate them and it just felt like a real thing. Was awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched that the other day. Think it was on the Best of Raw & SD 2012 Bluray. At least I don't think I saw it on anything else .


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WrestleWar 1992

Brian Pillman vs Tom Zenk ***3/4
Steiners vs Fujinami & Iizuka ***
WarGames ****3/4

I thought Pillman/Zenk was a better Pillman/Liger. Probably an unpopular opinion but oh well. Tag match was good but it almost knocked me to sleep. Which is so rare. Pace was off, crowd wasn't invested until the end and I felt like there was a lack of synergy trying to be covered with work rate and the length of the match.

WarGames is incredible. I had it at 5 but my definition of a 5 has somewhat 'evolved' since I last watched it about 4-5 years ago. It's flawless but I do wish the "match beyond" was longer than a 5 minute pure brawl.

Onto Beach Bash. Woosh.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> 05 wrestling stories? I QUIT watching in 05. After WM, with Cena on top facing JBL, and Batista on the other side with HHH, then switching brands and JBL STILL in the title scene? Urgh. I just didn't care. Hated JBL back then, not so much "he's great heel" but "I hate his style and he bores me and I don't like his matches" way. Never cared for Cena. Batista I actually kinda liked as the big powerhouse of Evolution, but once he was stuck with JBL and having shitty matches I gave up. Undertaker was part time at this point too which didn't help. I'd read results every week and if Undertaker was appearing I'd watch, but otherwise I didn't bother. BUT I had bought tickets to my first Raw taping for November later that year before I stopped watching, so I knew I'd have to get back into it again for that so I'd know what was happening. I was putting it off until the day of No Mercy, and I saw an advert for the show with UNDERTAKER in a casket match and EDDIE GUERRERO wrestling for the title. I ordered it and watched it live and that was me back into wrestling .


I started watching in 1992 and stopped watching religiously in 2003, just watched a raw here and a Smackdown there and all the PPV's. I gave up watching entirely in 2005 after Eddie died and didn't get back in to watching it religiously until early 2009. Hearing HBK and Taker were gonna have a match for the Streak at WM 25 made me order my first PPV since No Mercy 2005. I remember watching that match and thinking "holy shit, why in the fuck did I ever stop watching wrestling".


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I started watching in 87 and carried through most of 99-2000. Started back up at the end of 03 because my college roommate was super into it and he got me watching again. Stopped again around 09 aside from Mania and didn't get back into it until 2011.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Loved doing the Brock project. :mark: Just a shame it had to end with that complete no show at Mania 20, so much awesomeness before that. Oh well, i may now watch his return feud with Cena, i still think for such a short feud, the build up was so well done. The match of course is great, apart from the finish lol.



That sounds like a fun as project man. What were your 5 favorite matches from Brock's original run? Did you find any hidden gems? What was was something you learned that you didn't know before watching all his stuff? And finally, in your opinion where does Brock's 2 year run from 2002-2004 rank among the best 2 year runs in the history of wrestling, from a match quality standpoint? 



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> UF 03 HBK/Orton is trash. TRASH I TELLS YA. CS match I just remember being more of a feud advancer leading into SVS. And of course SVS is :mark: and is the only match you really need to see from the two of them.


Yea I'm gonna have to side with Cal, didn't like Unforgiven AT ALL. Loved loved loved, SVS 2007 though, one of the big reasons I bought the HBK My Story set.



Starbuck said:


> The Brock/Cena brawl on Raw before their match is :mark: :mark: :mark:. When they brought everybody out to separate them and it just felt like a real thing. Was awesome.



That's the one where Brock bloodied Cena's mouth, right? Oh man I still remember that moment, when Cena is cutting one of his promos wearing the green shirt and hat, then all the sudden Brock's music hits and the fans go NUTS. Out matches Brock looking like the baddest motherfucker alive and he proceeds to just rag doll Cena with that F5. I think it was the next week or week after when Brock came out and beat down Cena and the entire roster poured out to try and separate them. If only Brock had won that match


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Back with my GAB 05 ramble. Finally made it through Chavo/Rey. Up to Eddie/JBL :mark:. I'm even looking forward to the main event. If it holds up for me then it ISN'T BAD. So fuck you all.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> To my credit, I actually somehow liked Orton/HHH from the Royal Rumble. So don't push things too far C2D, or else my opinion will sour again. I probably should have used a better example though, like Cena/HHH from NoC 2008. Used to love that match, then I rewatched it and it felt like a forced classic where nothing meaningful happened in the first half, and finishers were spammed at the end. But it's perfectly rational to think that Mysterio/Eddie was not a good feud.


You were on the money the first time, Cena/JBL is a chore to get through.




DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Back with my GAB 05 ramble. *Finally made it through Chavo/Rey.* Up to Eddie/JBL :mark:. *I'm even looking forward to the main event. If it holds up for me then it ISN'T BAD. So fuck you all.*


I hate you.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I LOVE YOU TOO <3


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That sounds like a fun as project man. What were your 5 favorite matches from Brock's original run? Did you find any hidden gems? What was was something you learned that you didn't know before watching all his stuff? And finally, in your opinion where does Brock's 2 year run from 2002-2004 rank among the best 2 year runs in the history of wrestling, from a match quality standpoint


Ill probably go with the obvious ones in terms of best matches:

The Rock (Summerslam 2002)
Angle (Summerslam 2003)
Angle (Iron Man)
Undertaker (No Mercy)
Probably the SD with Benoit next.

In terms of hidden gems, id say his stuff with RVD, he had a really nice match with Test and a fucking realllly good Raw match with Bubba Ray (think it was the June '02 one i mean), but every week on SD he had a gem of a match TBH, a lot of fun tags too, esp when he turned heel in '03, teaming with Cena/Show amongst others.

One thing i noticed is just how fucking long Brock/Show was around each other lol, it was practically the whole of 2003, either feuding, or teaming or just generally being in the same segments together. 

I know i have said it, but Brock is very underrated on the mic, he didn't really put a foot wrong in any of his promos and he was IMO, just as good as a face as a heel, but of course he is more natural playing a heel, but as a face he was fine, and played that role just as well.

Towards the end you could see where his frustrations in terms of the booking came from, i think he 'tapped out' three times, which the crowd used for months lol, but i loved the Eddie feud and the stuff he did with Austin, but fuck the WMXX match though of course, real shame but the crowd did not help things i have to say.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

And I thought Cal was crazy when he said Taker/Austin Backlash was ****.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

GAB 04 has such a shitty card


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Ill probably go with the obvious ones in terms of best matches:
> 
> The Rock (Summerslam 2002)
> Angle (Summerslam 2003)
> ...



You like the Rock, Angle, and Benoit matches more than the Eddie match? 

As far as Brock tapping out, I'm not sure how to take it. On one hand, it got him a TON of heat, especially after tapping to Angle at SS. The crowd was all over him for that and the Ankle lock is probably the strongest booked submission of all time, with respect to Bret's Sharpshooter and Benoits Crossface. On the other, Brock is supposed to be a monster. I hated seeing Henry tap to Cena's weak ass STF, but the principle for Brock should be the same: monsters don't tap. Heels can tap all the time and have it not really hurt them, but with a monster there is supposed to be an aura of invincibility. Having Brock tap at SS, SD and SVS wasn't the smartest thing ever. I don't think that's what pushed him to leave though. I think being forced to feud with Bob Holly and Vince refusing to give him time off is what finally did it,

Off to watch Danielson/KENTA now, thanks again for the link mate


----------



## BornBad (Jan 27, 2004)

Nobody got more news about this one? the doc? matches set ?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*The Great American Bash 2004*

A new PPV added to the WWE schedule! And it was met with... uhhh... not so great reception due to how terrible the event was. Or at least how it's remembered. BUT is it that awful? Eddie/JBL doesn't scream "awful" to me. Not after their JD CLASSIC. But the rest of the card? We'll see...


*John Cena Vs Rene Dupree Vs RVD Vs Booker T - WWE United States Championship Match*

Fuck me look at the LACK OF TALENT in this match :lmao. Seriously, outside of a very small handful of matches, Cena sucked around this time. Dupree? Don't make me laugh. RVD? Could be good but overall not my thing. And Booker T? :lmao fuck off.

Well even if I WANTED to sit through this, the file I have to watch it on just crapped out during Cena's attempted rap.

Ok, 2 days later and I've got the NETWORK version of the show. Also...

NO :lmao.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Charlie Hass Vs Luther Reigns*

:lmao

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Rey Mysterio Vs Chavo Guerrero - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match*

*sigh* a fucking Chavo match. Their NWO match used to be one of the few Chavo matches I liked. On last watch it wasn't good. This is usually considered his best... fuck knows what I'll end up thinking of it now :lmao.

:lmao the referee gets a 2 count from THIS:










WELL DONE MINI FLAIR. I don't blame him though, I'd have counted too in hopes of ending this match and not having to sit through CHAVO any more .

Rey starts kicking Chavo's legs and it allows him to build momentum... so he then switches up and goes after the arm. Despite the fact he was just working over the leg. WHAT?

Chavo DROPKICKS Rey off the ropes to the floor. LOL, of course it was a dropkick...

So Chavo is building momentum and... goes after Rey's legs! Cuts 99% of Rey's offence if he can't walk so it's smart, plus knee surgeries and shit too. Plus Chavo probably remembered how much his leg was bothering him a few minutes earlier when Rey went after it... before moving to the arm for NO REASON.

Fuck me I'm bitching at REY in a CHAVO match. Hold on, need to see if hell froze over...

Yep. Cold as fuck down there.

:lmao COLE CONFUSED A BULLDOG WITH A DDT.

Chavo actually looks... some what kinda barely sorta a little bit not so terribly shite in this! His attack to Rey's legs is pretty gosh darn awesome, plenty of varied offence thrown in too. And Rey, well he's Rey. Great selling, wonderful hope spots, and all round goodness.

They battle on the top rope at one point and meh, it's pretty shitty tbh. They were positioned as if they were gonna do a superplex to the floor rather than in the ring, then grabbed hold of each other's head and jumped into the ring and smashed each other face first and it looked sooo fucking FAKE lol.

Rey does well selling his leg while still being able to get some of his usual offence in. He holds his leg while trying to run, then when he does bounce off the ropes and hits something he tends to roll away from Chavo and hold the leg again rather than follow up or even make a cover.

GORY BOMB~!

Chavo actually still selling his ARM at this point too btw. Rey didn't do much to it earlier in the match, but Chavo did ram it into the ring post at one point during a Rey hope spot, so nice of him to still show that it's bothering him at points when it makes sense to.

I keep complimenting Chavo. I FEEL SO DIRTY.

WEST COAST POP COUNTERED INTO A SINGLE LEG BOSTON CRAB~!

Rey holds on for a good while, then finally makes it to the ropes and the fans are on fucking FIRE for it!!!

Another Gory Bomb attempt, but Rey counters into a sunset flip and gets the 3!!! CHAVO LOSES!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Great match! Thank FUCK this ended up being great! Would hate to think I'd sat through a Chavo match for it to be shitty. Best Chavo singles match? Can't think of anything better atm.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*Kenso Susuki Vs Billy Gunn*

:lmao this is a fucking PPV match? :lmao

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


PAUL HEYMAN :mark:. HE'S GOT PAUL BEARER TIED UP~!


*Sable Vs Torrie Wilson*

FAP

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Mordecai Vs Hardcore Holly*

Holly goes right after Mordecai and beats the FUCK out of him lol. The on the outside Mordecai throws Holly into his cross thingy and follows up with a vicious clothesline on the floor.

Still makes me :lmao that this guy was supposed to be built as a big opponent for Undertaker. Seeing him again makes me wonder why people liked his gimmick. He just comes out in a white robe with a cross and... uhhh... that's about it really. His in ring work? Nothing horrible, but nothing amazing either. Decentish brawler, but oh look, REST HOLDS.

:lmao at the spot where they bump heads :lmao.

Nice little finishing stretch from these two, as they both hit some nice high impact moves and take turns at kicking out of shit. Enjoyed the actual finish too, Mordecai turning an Alabama Slam into a RAZOR'S EDGE.

This was a fine little match tbh. Needed less rest holds from Mordecai, but they didn't last long at least.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Eddie Guerrero Vs JBL - WWE Championship Texas Bull Rope Match*

:mark: their JD match was fucking INCREDIBLE and I have high hopes for this too. On previous watches its not been as good as JD, but still a great match so hopefully it holds up :mark:.

Tony Chimmel reading the rules of the match makes me wanna shoot myself lol. He's reading off a fucking card and STILL fucks up :lmao. 

:lmao the rope comes off Eddie within about a minute :lmao.

Match really starts off awkward. Ropes comes off Eddie's arm, Eddie gets caught up in the rope a couple of times, and it has the makings of being a MESS of a match. BUT it quickly switches from awkward to good :mark:. Mainly because they start trying to wrestle a normal match for the most part without using the rope to strangle each other and shit lol.

JBL's punches :mark:.

JBL just dropping to the floor so Eddie can barely move him when he tries to touch the corners and win :mark:.

COW BELL TO THE HEAD~!

Tree of woe in the corner, then JBL uses the rope to choke the hell out of Eddie! BRUTAL~!

JBL tries to fucking POWERBOMB Eddie from one announce table to the other, but Eddie slides away, wraps the rope around JBL's leg and trips him up, causing Bradshaw to fall back first onto the table!

COW BELL TO THE HEAD~!

Eddie using the rope to his advantage, sending JBL into the ring post multiple times!!!

:mark: shades of JD with the SICK chair shot... only this time it's EDDIE nailing JBL in the face! Eddie has a sweeeeet smile on his face afterwards, and JBL is BLEEDING :mark:.

Another chair shot to JBL!!! Eddie touches 3 corners, but again JBL drops down to make it harder on Eddie, and even wraps his legs around the ring ropes to prevent Eddie from hitting number 4!

Eddie tries again, and makes it to 3 once more, but JBL desperately grabs hold of the ring ropes to keep Eddie from victory.

JBL's power gets him back in control, mainly thanks to those big right hands. Eddie tries to use his SPEED to hit all 4 corners before JBL can really know what's happening, but again JBL uses his power to stop Eddie.

FROG SPLASH~!

Again Eddie gets 3, and this time JBL rolls OUTSIDE of the ring and just collapses on the floor, with the rope not being long enough for Eddie to reach the last corner!

COW BELL TO THE HEAD~!

JBL LAUNCHES EDDIE OFF THE APRON ONTO THE ANNOUNCE TABLE USING THE ROPE AROUND HIS NECK!!! THE TABLE DOESN'T BREAK~!

POWERBOMB THROUGH THE FUCKING TABLE~! It broke that time!!!

JBL gets Eddie back into the ring. He's bleeding, but has a HUGE smile on his face because he thinks he has this match WON now. Just like Eddie, he gets 3 corners and EDDIE drops to the mat and grabs the ropes, just as JBL did multiple times in the match!

COW BELL TO THE HEAD~!

EDDIE FIRES UP~!

Eddie starts touching corners, but JBL does it right after him for each one too! Both have 3 (though the first light for JBL doesn't work :lmao ), and now it's a battle for #4!!!

Guerrero dives into the corner and hits the turnbuckle and retains his title! EDDIE WINS! EDDIE WINS!

Wait! Angle shows up, and explains that JBL is in fact the winner!!! What?!?! We get a replay, and it shows us JBL hitting the corner FIRST!

HOLY SHIT WE HAVE A NEW WWE CHAMPION! JBL IS THE NEW WWE CHAMPION!! BOOOOOOO!

Absolutely HATED the decision for this lol. Hated JBL at the time and wanted Eddie to hold the belt for a long arse time. Looking back I STILL want Eddie to win, but I've grown to love JBL too.

Match is great. Starts off a mess, but they quickly get into their groove and work within the limitations of a Bull Rope match to give us something DAMN FUCKING GOOD.

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*


*The Undertaker Vs The Dudley Boys - Concrete Crypt Match*

For all the hate this entire angle gets, I kinda like it. Heyman motivates The Dudley Boys and they team up. Dudleys kidnap Paul Bearer to gain control of THE URN and force Undertaker to join them. And if he doesn't do what they want, they'll hurt Bearer. And then we get to this match. If Undertaker doesn't DO THE RIGHT THING aka PUT OVER THE DUDLEY BOYS, then Heyman is going to KILL Paul Bearer by pouring concrete into a crypt which Paul Bearer will be locked inside!!!

Absolutely CRAZY concept yes, but the MATCH is what counts, not the insane potential murder after the match .

To help motivate Undertaker before the match, Heyman pours some concrete into the crypt to cover Bearer's feet! Bubba then gets in Undertaker's face and tells him to LAY DOWN. The Dead Man is conflicted, looking over at Bearer constantly, then finally ACTUALLY LAYING DOWN!!!

Bubba goes for a cover, but Undertaker grabs him by the throat!!! Then Devon runs in and gets caught too, but Heyman distracts him and the Dudley's begin to beat down the Dead Man for daring to defy them!!!

UNDERTAKER is fucking PISSED though and takes it to both of the tag team champs! OLD SCHOOL~! But before he can jump off the ropes, Heyman screams BAD DOG at him and pours more concrete into the crypt!!! Now Bearer is covered in concrete up to his tits!!!

Dudley Boys keep trying to beat down Undertaker but he can't stay down and let 2 men beat him up so he continues to fight back, and Heyman pulls the lever again and intends to END Bearer for good!!! However Bubba pulls it back up and tells Heyman that he and Devon are gonna get the job done themselves!!!

The distraction from Heyman and Bearer, along with the numbers game, finally catches up to the Dead Man and now he's in the fight of his life. Or Bearer's life, anyway .

UNDERTAKER COMEBACK~!

LOW BLOW~!

Heyman thinks the Dudleys are back in full control and comes to ringside, only for Undertaker to sit up right in front of him! CHOKESLAM TO BUBBA! TOMBSTONE TO DEVON! UNDERTAKER WINS!!!

Heyman ain't happy. Undertaker didn't DO THE RIGHT THING, so he has to kill the one person Undertaker cares about! LIGHTING BOLT!!! Undertaker shoots a lightning bolt to prevent Heyman from pulling the lever!

The Dead Man goes after Heyman... then looks over at Bearer...

"PAUL. I HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE. REST. IN. PEACE."

UNDERTAKER PULLS THE LEVER!!! UNDERTAKER KILLS PAUL BEARER!!! WHAT?!?!?!!?!?!??!

I've heard people complain about this or be confused as fuck about this... which confuses me because IT AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE YOU DUMB CUNTS. For weeks, Dudleys and Heyman were able to CONTROL The Undertaker through Paul Bearer. They made it perfectly clear to the world that Bearer is the only person Undertaker cares about. So when the time came for Undertaker to save his friend or kill him off... Undertaker decided to kill him off because HE WAS HIS ONE WEAKNESS. Even if Undertaker saved him, what would stop the next guy from trying to pull the same stunt? How many other people would come after Bearer to control Undertaker? Undertaker DID THE RIGHT THING.

In ring action ain't THAT good really, gets dull with the Dudleys working over Undertaker, but the angle for the match and the stuff with Heyman makes up for that imo. I like this, and while it isn't anything special, it's certainly NOT BAD AT ALL.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 6.5*​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

This was when Taker forgot his bags or something wasn't it?

Bit random, but one move i do miss is the Piledriver.  I do love seeing them performed off the top turnbuckle too. 

EDIT: Fuuuuuuuck, how the flying fuck can i forget the bloody Eddie/Brock match, i only watched it earlier too lol, yeah, put that instead of the Benoit match, or even the Angle SS match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

His bags got lost at the airport or some shit, so he didn't have his ring gear .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Somebody rename the Arkham Asylum into the Ark*Cal* Asylum, not in tribute of the sane founder, but in memory of its most insane patient ever. **3/4 for that Concrete Crypt match? Dude, I know you love Taker - who doesn't - but that is beyond imagination. A good DUD doesn't make it justice imho...

...ugh, I guess to each his own opinion. :side:

One honest question: do you wish you could be in Michelle McCool's place? 8*D


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Seems very interesting, especially the Pat Patterson part where Piper gets emotionally.


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

One match I really had to watch on the network was Vader Vs. Cactus Jack in a Texas Deathmatch from Halloween Havoc 1993. 

I first saw this match at 8 years old and back then, it shocked me. I thought it was the most violent thing I had ever seen in wrestling. Yes, I had seen blood in wrestling before and I saw stuff like the snake bite to Savage and Shawn throwing Marty through the window, but this match took it to a level I never envisioned before. It was almost more than my young brain could handle. 

I had never seen the match again (until yesterday) and as the years wore on, I thought if I gave the match a rewatch, I wouldn't think it would hold up. That had happened before. I remember thinking the Boiler Room Brawl at Summerslam 1996 was insane, but in my adult years, it really didn't hold up as a truly violent affair. I thought that would be the same here...

Boy was I wrong! Jesus that match was insane! There was stuff to not like about it. The Graveyard Set up for the Halloween Havoc stage was a little silly and why would they have a 30 second rest period after the fall and THEN count to 10? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Fuck that, why would their be a rest period at all? 

But this match was a bloody war with Foley just bumping like crazy. There have been more violent matches, but this match was ahead of its time and it made me wince more than a couple of times. Nice flashback for me. I really enjoyed seeing that again.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TripleG said:


> One match I really had to watch on the network was Vader Vs. Cactus Jack in a Texas Deathmatch from Halloween Havoc 1993.
> 
> I first saw this match at 8 years old and back then, it shocked me. I thought it was the most violent thing I had ever seen in wrestling. Yes, I had seen blood in wrestling before and I saw stuff like the snake bite to Savage and Shawn throwing Marty through the window, but this match took it to a level I never envisioned before. It was almost more than my young brain could handle.
> 
> ...


That HH match is pretty damn good, no doubt, but they had an even BETTER Texas Deathmatch on WCW Worldwide. It's about 10-12 minutes long but it's just action packed from bell to bell. Definitely worth a watch.

Hell, neither of those Texas Death Matches are the most violent match that Jack and Vader had. If you want to see some over the top, barbaric shit, go watch their match on WCW Saturday Night. Vader doesn't wear his protective gloves, and the first 5 or so minutes of the match are just Vader backing Jack into a corner and UNLOADING on Jacks face. You actually hear Foleys nose break at one point. I mean he really just beats Foleys face into a gruesome pulp. This isn't the best match ever or anything, it is really good though, and it's almost obscene watching a guy Vaders size just tee off on another guys face, while deep down you know Foley is just letting him do it. Mick is the toughest dude in the history of wrestling, I don't care what anyone says.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Sheamus vs Barrett was fun. Too bad Sheamus jobbed to a jobber. They better do what they did with Orton and just set him up for a heel turn where he regains prominence.



funnyfaces1 said:


> So don't push things too far C2D, or else my opinion will sour again.


Doesn't really matter. You may post that it's a good year one day then a week later you'll post something dumb like "Only Eddie was good that year".


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Barrett and Sheamus delivery yet again. ***3/4 for it, might even go **** on a re-watch. Awesome match.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I honestly think that you guys are bullshitting when you say that Wade's bad in the ring. From everything I've seen he's ranged from perfectly acceptable to good.

Also, he's good on the mic and has a good look. I feel there could be money in him.

Don't know why the WWE has buried him, but I actually think that people overstate the Bad News Barrett thing being a burial. I guarantee you that in Vince's mind, it's a push. He loves corny shit like that.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> Seems very interesting, especially the Pat Patterson part where Piper gets emotionally.


It sounds to me that he's saying he "got a pretty little kid" for Pat Patterson. He looks wracked with guilt there, rather than just hurt.

Or maybe he was saying "I was a pretty little kid" and his words got garbled. 

The amount of guilt written on his face and his refusal to say anything more makes me think it's the former.

That interviewer sucked at the moment, because it's obvious that Piper was alluding to something sexual, but couldn't come right out and say it. That's when the interviewer should have stepped in and said "something sexual?"

I used to think that people just made jokes about Pat due to everyone knowing his orientation, but he really does come off as a predator if the vibe I'm getting here is right.

Then again, Piper could have just meant that Pat came on to him and he was really rude toward Pat, and now he feels bad about it. 

Really wish he would have finished that comment, 'cause now it's all just guesswork.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Really have no idea why Kane ever stopped using the Tombstone. Always thought his was better looking than Taker's.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

KingLobos said:


> Really have no idea why Kane ever stopped using the Tombstone. Always thought his was better looking than Taker's.


Blasphemy. You can make a STRONG argument that Takers Tombstone is the single greatest finish in the history of wrestling. Gotta be that or the Stunner, both were just incredibly iconic and fit the characters so well.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

No finisher is better than the double rotation moonsault.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> No finisher is better than the double rotation moonsault.



Or more ridiculous.

I take that back, Angles shooting star on Sting is the single most devastating finisher of all time :kurt


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

My best finshers list is mostly filled with submissions. Always loved seeing one guy have to admit another man is better in storyline. Non-submissions would probably be one like the Jackhammer, Stunner, Diamond Cutter/RKO, and Superkick. Just thought they were perfect.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> My best finshers list is mostly filled with submissions. Always loved seeing one guy have to admit another man is better in storyline. Non-submissions would probably be one like the Jackhammer, Stunner, Diamond Cutter/RKO, and Superkick. Just thought they were perfect.



My favorite finishers are either submissions, or ones that look like they completely kill the other guy. As such, Benoits Crossface, Regal's Knee Trembler, Bret's Sharpshooter, Jake's DDT, Big Shows WMD Punch, JBL's Clothesline, Bryan's Labelle Lock, and Brock's F5 are some of my favorite finishes of all time.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Oh, no. Seth is sliding back into "bad on mic" mode again.

I can tell that it's really important to him, and he's probably heard a lot of criticism, so it's like he overshoots his load. I also felt that I could detect a lot of nervousness, and I think that comes from being right in front of HHH, and maybe feeling like he's being evaluated the whole time. 

Or at least that's what I felt was probably going on with Triple H at that moment, lol.

It's interesting that they still don't trust Reigns much on the mic, but I think they're doing the exactly right thing by him, as far as only giving him a few lines.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

That Cesaro theme.. that Cesaro/RVD match... :ugh

Hopefully Barrett can continue his streak of MOTN matches with RVD.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Guys, I need help, I know some of you here are extremely OCD with lists of very good TV matches, and I would like if someone helped me out and gave me a list of the good TV matches that happened from 2/24/ through 3/31, any and all help would be appreciated, because I have fallen wayyyyyyyyyyyyy behind on a project, so again, thank you in advanced!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Oh, no. Seth is sliding back into "bad on mic" mode again.
> 
> I can tell that it's really important to him, and he's probably heard a lot of criticism, so it's like he overshoots his load. I also felt that I could detect a lot of nervousness, and I think that comes from being right in front of HHH, and maybe feeling like he's being evaluated the whole time.
> 
> ...


Really? If anything, I thought that tonight's promo was an example of him being incredible in the mic. Certainly the star of that great segment. I do agree with what you said about Reigns though. He's at his best in this position of the monster that says a few words. I don't know how long it will last, but until he gives me a reason to dislike him, I am a Roman Reigns guy.

Muhammad Hassan's 2005 > Christian's 2005 = Eddie's 2005 >>>>>>> everyone :side:

Sheamus and Barrett continue to put on a show. Two straight weeks of Wade Barrett killing it on RAW in the ring. And the well-deserved clean victory over the talented (yet not as good as Ziggler) Sheamus. Can't wait for Sheamus' heel turn this year.

I don't like Regal's Knee Trembler as a finisher. It doesn't look that painful and he has three other moves that work as better finishers (Regalplex, Regal Cutter, Regal Stretch).


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Missed Sheamus/Barrett. Not surprised that it was good though. Looks like they might be setting up Cesaro/RVD for Extreme Rules based on that backstage promo and the fact that Cesaro/Swagger is happening on SmackDown. I don't know how I feel about that. Would've preferred Swagger to get the PPV spot but whatever, I'll be satisfied once I get a lengthy Cesaro/Swagger match.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Really? If anything, I thought that tonight's promo was an example of him being incredible in the mic. Certainly the star of that great segment. I do agree with what you said about Reigns though. He's at his best in this position of the monster that says a few words. I don't know how long it will last, but until he gives me a reason to dislike him, I am a Roman Reigns guy.


Thought he had that "child playing a grown man's role", try-hard delivery that he used to have. I was actually cringing through it. Oh well, it was just a one-off, I think. He's been good otherwise. 


:lmao @ Cena's face when he was in Bray's arms. You could tell that he was legit annoyed. Probably Bray was covering Cena's mouth with his arm a little too much.

Bray's really good, because he's the only one who has ever made me remotely think that Cena might turn heel. Probably wasn't even the intention, but the way that Bray was sinisterly singing that "brother" part at the end.....he's just good.

Plus, he's been one of the MVPs in the ring this year, which makes me happy, because mid last year, I said that that might be the only hold back for me.


Yeah1993, no I hadn't seen those Rude matches. Thanks for the recommendations. Will get to them after the Warrior matches, which I still haven't gotten to yet.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I can't remember who it was (either funnyfaces or ATF I believe), but whoever told me to watch those 6-mans with Los Matadores & Sin Cara from main event, THANK YOU. So much fun from bell to bell. One versus the Wyatts and one the next week versus The Shield. They were like double primer matches for their collision at EC and it was awesome. No problem giving *** 1/4 to both. That big boot that Harper delivered to a springboarding Sin Cara was SICK. :mark:


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

RVD/Cesaro was ok, slow at times.

WWE could've done better with Hunico.
They could've had him lose the Sin Cara gimmick against Sin Cara 1, then bring him back under a mask as a heel and turn him face when Sin Cara 1 was released.



KingLobos said:


> Really have no idea why Kane ever stopped using the Tombstone. Always thought his was better looking than Taker's.


Always liked Kane's version of the tombstone since the 1st time i saw it.
Taker falls forward onto his knees while Kane would jump straight down on his knees.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Barrett/Sheamus ***1/2 , very good match
RVD and Cesaro just didn't click


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Cesaro-RVD was slow as fuck. I was surprised, but not surprised too. I guess I hadn't realized how slow RVD has become.

I can't say I'm looking forward to Barrett vs. RVD next week, but if Barrett ends up winning, it'll all be worth it.

I thought Rollins' cut a good promo tonight. He's come along so far since The Shield made their debut.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Can't remember the last time I enjoyed a match with RVD in it. If they wrestle at Extreme Rules it will need to be one of those superhuman Cesaro carry jobs for it to be good. Barrett's definitely winning this tournament and thank god because Van Dam/Langston would be horrendous.

Will people be shocked if Bryan/Kane is the best match on the PPV? I won't be.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Or more ridiculous.
> 
> I take that back, Angles shooting star on Sting is the single most devastating finisher of all time :kurt


I don't watch TNA, but Angle did a Moonsault off the top of a cage at Genesis last year, didn't think he still did it tbh.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Can't remember the last time I enjoyed a match with RVD in it. If they wrestle at Extreme Rules it will need to be one of those superhuman Cesaro carry jobs for it to be good. Barrett's definitely winning this tournament and thank god because Van Dam/Langston would be horrendous.
> 
> Will people be shocked if Bryan/Kane is the best match on the PPV? I won't be.



Jericho had a pretty damn good match with RVD last Summer, I want to say it was the night after MitB. It was Jericho's last match during this recent run. Think I gave it ***3/4. 

Missed Cesaro/RVD, was watching the epic Grizzlies/Thunder game:yum:

Sheamus/Barrett was pretty good though, ***1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fucks sake, another PPV I got from the 04 PPV pack on XWT is fucked. First half of GAB ended up only being like 60mb and now Taboo Tuesday cuts out about an hour or so in! I don't like having to stop watching a show in the middle of it unless *I* want to stop!!! 

Watching the Piper 1984 timeline :mark:. Came across a BOTCH :lmao.










HOW HAVE TNA SURVIVED THIS LONG?!?!?!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Fucks sake, another PPV I got from the 04 PPV pack on XWT is fucked. First half of GAB ended up only being like 60mb and now Taboo Tuesday cuts out about an hour or so in! I don't like having to stop watching a show in the middle of it unless *I* want to stop!!!
> 
> Watching the Piper 1984 timeline :mark:. Came across a BOTCH :lmao.
> 
> ...



Cal I've got something for you:

http://podcastone.com/Steve-Austin-Show-Clean

Thats the Steve Austin show, this week he's sharing Undertaker stories


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: Undertaker stories. Not often I bother with these podcasts tbh, but it's UNDERTAKER related so yeah, download :mark:. Everyone else listened to the Heyman ones last week though, right? RIGHT? :|


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> :mark: Undertaker stories. Not often I bother with these podcasts tbh, but it's UNDERTAKER related so yeah, download :mark:. Everyone else listened to the Heyman ones last week though, right? RIGHT? :|


Of course man, listening to them talk was just captivating.

The Taker stories start at 59:14


Edit: BOOOOO! False advertising Steve! He only talks about Taker for a total of 4 miniutes


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

House Show upload from me: 

*Randy Savage vs Ric Flair (WCW House Show - 28.06.1996) (Hartford, USA)*

(Special Referee: Bruno Sammartino)

x1qk8sm


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fucks sake, 4 minutes?


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

The Austin/Heyman podcast was great and it was the first of them I've listened to. Austin reading out the sponsors is fucking hilarious.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The best Austin podcast is the one where he talks about flies for a good half hour. Just fantastic stuff.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Austin could just record himself reading a menu at a Chinese restaurant with his priceless insights and it would be classic. The cool thing about the Heyman podcast was that you could tell even Austin himself was riveted listening to Paul talk. Paul has the gift of gab, if you can even call what he does that. Just listening to him talk and tell stories and offer his opinions he manages to keep my full attention the entire time, that's not easy to do. He would have OWNED doing Radio.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Royal Rumble 2008*

Ric Flair vs. MVP
*DUD*

Chris Jericho vs. JBL
*** 1/4*

Edge vs. Rey Mysterio
**** 3/4*

Randy Orton vs. Jeff Harvey Hardy
*The lowest ** 3/4 can be without being ** 1/2*

The Royal Rumble Match
*N/A*

************

_- The opener sucked, plain and simple. MVP is one of the most pathetic excuses for a professional wrestler I have ever seen. Everything he does is horrible - His offence, his selling, his character, his mannerisms... Just channel-changing, mood-ruining crappiness and he's certainly not someone who's weaknesses old man Flair's strengths can cover up. There wasn't even any emotion in the match despite the Flair retirement angle because everyone and their local shopkeeper knew MVP wasn't ending his career. Just horrid, the less I talk about it the better.

- I never even heard of this JBL/Jericho match before now, but I know why - It was really, really forgettable. Nothing was bad, but nothing was particularly good either, just completely harmless and forgettable. Jericho brings it to Jibbles, a lot harder than you'd expect, which is fun, and Jericho also blades like a bitch, but other than that it's just a match, if you feel me? I don't regret watching it, but I won't be watching it again any time soon. The finish could be seen as deflating, but to me, how can a finish be deflating when that match it's self doesn't inflate you in the first place? :lol

- More like it. I really enjoyed this, a lot. I very rarely see this get talked about but it should be. Watching the video package, they could have made this a proper angle running a few months w/ Vickie and Rey's history, could have took some twists and turns and made for some good TV and some great matches. It was kept short but my god was it sweet. Some good leg work by Edge which starts from one of my favourite transition spots ever, and fantastic selling from Rey, even for his standards. Shenanigans ensue, but it isn't overdone and suits the story they told and everything just worked. Really, really good and should be brought up more when talking about Edge's best singles matches, at least as an honorable mention, although I have a feeling I may be higher on this than most.

- Orton vs. Harvey was simple, effective, yet slightly disappointing given who's involved. There was the simple structure that I enjoyed, but the substance was meh'ish. Orton's control was boring with barely any offense other than restholds, no limbwork to make up for the boring offense and the only saving grace was Hardy pinging around the ring like a loon. FINISH out of nowhere is really deflating as well.

- I didn't watch The Rumble match it's self, as I watched it a few months ago and I don't particularly wanna' watch it again. From what I can remember, I loved HBK/Taker starting, playing back to the end of 07, I despised the Piper/Snuka bit and thought it was so out of place, some other stuff happened, blah blah, Cena enters and CENAWINSLOL. Yeah, I can recall not liking it, hence why I'm not watching it (and I'm not a fan of Rumbles in general), plus I find it impossible to rate them and I know for a fact it won't make my top ten for the year. I'm not wasting an hour to watching something that I saw a few months ago and won't enjoy. I've read some reviews on it though and others think it's mediocre soe fuck it _



Spoiler: Top Ten 2008 PPV Matches so far




1. Edge vs. Rey Mysterio - Royal Rumble - *** 3/4
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

:moody​


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Austin's podcasts along with plugging his sponsors are two of the best things this world has to offer


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ooooo, Robbie is reviewing all the '08 PPVs huh? You're in for a treat next month at No Way Out. Interested to see what you think of Edge/Mysterio and Cena/Orton. I thought the former sucked because I just had higher expectations for it and the leg injury killed it.

I still haven't seen the '08 Rumble.... or 2012... or 2013.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah I'm really looking forward to NWO 08. I watched Cena/Orton not so long ago and didn't see the hype but it's definitely at least good so I'm up for the rewatch, and the two chamber matches look STACKED. Hopefully Kennedy can do a better job than MVP but I'm not holding my breath, and Punk/Chavo should be harmless, if not slightly decent. Looks like a real solid event.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Ooooo, Robbie is reviewing all the '08 PPVs huh? You're in for a treat next month at No Way Out. Interested to see what you think of Edge/Mysterio and Cena/Orton. I thought the former sucked because I just had higher expectations for it and the leg injury killed it.
> 
> I still haven't seen the '08 Rumble.... or 2012... or 2013.



You were the guy that loved HBK/Jericho JD 2008 as much as I do, right? Well I've finally come around on the GAB match too. Both get **** from me, I watched them 2 nights ago and was pleasantly surprised to say the least. The other matches in the feud though? Meh, not really a fan, but those two hit all the right spots. Still like WM 19 better than all their other matches.

About to watch Danielson/KENTA GBH 2006 for the first time when I get home thanks to King Zeppers getting me a working link (fuck you 4share, Dailymotion 4 lyfe ). 

Cal- am I allowed to post a review for this match or is that a no-no cause it's ROH?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I hate Edge/Rey with a passion, that Orton/Jeff deserves much better though given how well Jeff performed. I wouldn't classify it as a complete Jeff show, Orton did have moments of upbringing, like the ending. :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*For Reviewing Purposes Only 

*No Mercy 2003*

Rey Mysterio vs. Tajri ~ *** 3/4
Chris Benoit vs. A-Train ~ ***-*** 1/4
Vince McMahon vs. Stephanie MchMahon w/ Linda *** 1/4
Matt Hardy w/ Shannon Moore vs. Zach Gowen ~ **
Kurt Angle vs. John Cena ~ *** 3/4
Eddie Guerrero vs. Big Show ~ **** (MOTN)
The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar DUD​
All in all I thought it was an excellent event, the matches flowed perfectly and outside of the ME every match was atleast fun. The opener was pretty fun and a nice clash of styles. Anytime you have those two in-ring good things happen

Thought Benoit/Tensai was solid, middle portion was a bit boring but still watchable and solid. Such a change of times as Benoit is bleeding everywhere and its fine :lol

Vince/Steph was so interesting, I'm watching and fpalm how cheesy and "fake" this is, but my eyes are glued. Good Lord has Linda done a positive thing in her life besides produce Steph ? Vince is such a fun wrestler, his 2003 is outstanding and its a joy to watch most of his matches.

Gowen/Hardy was fun, Hardy got good offense in, and its pretty neat to watch Gowen do all of this on one leg, almost impossible, Arguably the most athletic wrestler ever just from that standpoint 

Angle/Cena was pretty good, both mens performances were very well done in this one, one of the few early Cena matches I like. Only flaw in this is during the final stretch, its just MOVEZ and MOVEZ and you see Angle get off track abit.

I loved Eddie/Show, just from a standpoint idk if anyone wrestled Big Show more properly than Eddie, maybe Cena IDK. We don't think that much about it because we see him all the time and the "special, freak of nature specimen" aura has worn off, but Show is MASSIVE. Saying that Eddie wrestling Show is the closest thing to David vs. Goliath Ive ever seen. 

Main Event was boring, how is this possible with BORK and Deadman ?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS said:


> The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesner DUD
> [/CENTER]












Bloody hell Skins, i mean WTF, no really, WFT? 

I watched that this week as part of my Brock project, IMO its damn underrated, think i gave it at least ****.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lol I didn't like it that much, thought it was boring and bland, had some aspects I liked but the negatives out weighted the positives by far. I don't do those * 3/4, *1/4 stuff so a DUD is how I'd classify it, I'm trying to watch some other BORK to wash my mind of that much


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

SKINS have you ever seen the April 04 match between Show/Eddie. I'm a huge fan on the No Mercy match but I sincerely feel that the April match is >>>>>> it. Thee David vs. Goliath story is as relevant as it is at NM - if not more so - , but Eddie's babyface performance is literally off the charts. Comfortably Eddie's 3rd best match of the year, which is no slight on him seeing as #1 and #2 are vs. Brock and vs. Jibbles @ Judgement Day. Quite possibly the TV MOTY as well, though I'm sure C2D and some others will disagree with me given the strength of Raw during that time. But yeah, watch it ASAP if you haven't already seen it, and watch it ASAP if you have. Who cares.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You were the guy that loved HBK/Jericho JD 2008 as much as I do, right? Well I've finally come around on the GAB match too. Both get **** from me, I watched them 2 nights ago and was pleasantly surprised to say the least. The other matches in the feud though? Meh, not really a fan, but those two hit all the right spots. Still like WM 19 better than all their other matches.
> 
> About to watch Danielson/KENTA GBH 2006 for the first time when I get home thanks to King Zeppers getting me a working link (fuck you 4share, Dailymotion 4 lyfe ).
> 
> Cal- am I allowed to post a review for this match or is that a no-no cause it's ROH?


Yes sir, that was me. That 15 minute contest is so wonderful. I have it at **** 1/2 and higher then their **** encounter at Mania and the **** 1/4 Ladder match that everyone seems to be turning on.  Haven't seen the Non-sanctioned one in full and it's been years since I've seen the Gab match.



SKINS said:


> *For Reviewing Purposes Only
> 
> *No Mercy 2003*
> 
> ...


:no:

BRO. No. Chain match is a slugfest. Ending is kinda weak but 97% of the match is fun stuff. *** 1/2 on last watch.

Excellent show btw.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh yea I certainly have, I was trying to speak of the Eddie/Show matches as a whole including that match, :lol that April match blows this out of the water. Yea man that match iirc is in my top 10 for that very deep year as a Whole not just TV


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> I hate Edge/Rey with a passion, that Orton/Jeff deserves much better though given how well Jeff performed. I wouldn't classify it as a complete Jeff show, Orton did have moments of upbringing, like the ending. :mark:


Don't forget this classic:





:lol



Robbie said:


> SKINS have you ever seen the April 04 match between Show/Eddie. I'm a huge fan on the No Mercy match but I sincerely feel that the April match is >>>>>> it. Thee David vs. Goliath story is as relevant as it is at NM - if not more so - , but Eddie's babyface performance is literally off the charts. Comfortably Eddie's 3rd best match of the year, which is no slight on him seeing as #1 and #2 are vs. Brock and vs. Jibbles @ Judgement Day. Quite possibly the TV MOTY as well, though I'm sure C2D and some others will disagree with me given the strength of Raw during that time. But yeah, watch it ASAP if you haven't already seen it, and watch it ASAP if you have. Who cares.


Eddie/Show from SD is very good but yeah, the strength of Raw overcomes it for TV MOTY imo. Just looking at a few of the Evolution tags, Benoit/HHH Ironman, Benoit/HBK 2x and the Benoit/Orton rematch - I have a few above it at least. Think I'd put some other Eddie matches above it too, possibly the title match with Rey and steel cage with JBL.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Great review bro I have most of the stuff a good bit higher than you though 

Rey/Tajiri: ****
Benoit/A-Train: ***3/4 (so underrated, this match RULES)
Vince/Steph: no idea how to rate this :lmao so great though
Hardy vs Gowan: **
Kurt/Cena: **** (MotN)
Eddie/Show: ****
Brock/Taker: ***1/2

Safe to say, No Mercy 2003 is definitely one of my 5 favorite "B" PPV's ever, just so much quality. Tajiri, Rey, Eddie, Brock, Taker, Vince, Benoit, A-Train, Cena, Angle....just look at all that TALENT. It's almost staggering tbh. And that's just the SMACKDOWN roster, doesn't even include al the dudes on Raw. Safe to say that 2002-2003 is the most loaded roster in the history of wrestling and that we will never have anything approaching that level of of star power ever again.

And yes, Eddie/Show SD, the one where Eddie busts out the wrench, is even better than NM. Eddie was MAGIC with Show, probably my second favorite Show opponent other than Taker.

TV match of the year for 2004 was either Eddie/Rey on SD for the WWE title or Benoit/Orton Raw the night after SS. Then again, that second Benoit/HBK match was KILLER. As was the #1 contender match in Feb. hmmmm. Alright, you can't have a TV MotY for 2004 and not have it be a Benoit match. Dude just MURDERED it on television every single week for the entire fucking year. So year, either HBK/Benoit II on Raw or Orton/Benoit II on Raw for my TV MotY.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm trying to upload the Raw 2000 Texas Tag match, have a better rip of that one.

For anyone who gives a shit lol.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Opinions on Vince/Taker SS 2003?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> I'm trying to upload the Raw 2000 Texas Tag match, have a better rip of that one.
> 
> For anyone who gives a shit lol.


You mean you have one better than this? (which is YOUR video btw, just I upped it to YT )






WWE Network need to upload some 2000 Raw shows, including the one with this match. And hopefully they post some 2004 Raws to go along with the EVOLUTION reunion.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> You mean you have one better than this? (which is YOUR video btw, just I upped it to YT )
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Speaking of Raw in 2000... Have you seen Benoit/Austin from Raw in November of 2000? Fucking ILL. More mat wrestling than I've ever seen Steve do in a match since atleast 1996...maybe ever though. If they had gotten 5 more minutes it would rival their SD and Raw matches from the next year. As it stands now, it's probably the best TV match from 2000. I'm sure FF will correct me if I'm wrong. Jericho/Trips from State College PA was great too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'd say so, yeah.  As long as DM don't fuck me about again.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Speaking of Raw in 2000... Have you seen Benoit/Austin from Raw in November of 2000? Fucking ILL. More mat wrestling than I've ever seen Steve do in a match since atleast 1996...maybe ever though. If they had gotten 5 more minutes it would rival their SD and Raw matches from the next year. As it stands now, it's probably the best TV match from 2000. I'm sure FF will correct me if I'm wrong. Jericho/Trips from State College PA was great too.


The one where Benoit wears the black and yellow tights? And he gives Austin a stunner iirc. Yeah, I've seen it but that's all I remember from it.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

TEXAS TEN MAN :mark:

May not be the best match of the year but I'll be damned if it isn't my favourite. Might watch it for the 3842nd time just because.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Someone asked about posting an ROH review? It's just download/media links you ain't allowed to post for ROH. Reviews are fine, just make sure you post it in the proper thread (aka Indy GARBAGE review thead 8*D) .

TT 04 ramble back on track, managed to find another 04 PPV pack and downloaded it again. BENOIT time.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Austin could just record himself reading a menu at a Chinese restaurant with his priceless insights and it would be classic. The cool thing about the Heyman podcast was that you could tell even Austin himself was riveted listening to Paul talk. Paul has the gift of gab, if you can even call what he does that. Just listening to him talk and tell stories and offer his opinions he manages to keep my full attention the entire time, that's not easy to do. He would have OWNED doing Radio.


The Heyman podcast was truly awesome... both parts. I can't be the only one who legit lol'd when Heyman revealed he had listened to six weeks worth of Raw creative conference calls and he got bitched at for falling asleep through one because his phone was off the hook and they found out he disconnected even though he was sleeping. :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Someone asked about posting an ROH review? It's just download/media links you ain't allowed to post for ROH. Reviews are fine, just make sure you post it in the proper thread (aka Indy GARBAGE review thead 8*D) .
> 
> TT 04 ramble back on track, managed to find another 04 PPV pack and downloaded it again. BENOIT time.


That's what I was asking, if I could post it in HERE. I'll just review something relevant for this thread then. You're watching TT 04'? Jericho talks about when he wrestled Shelton there in his book. He said it's the only time he ever went out for a PPV match entirely unprepared. He didn't know who his opponent would be, what the finish was, any of Sheltons signature moves....nothing. Jericho just called the entire thing on the spot and the ref gave them the finish about halfway through the match. He asked Shelton what his finish was and Shelton said "T-Bone suplex" but because he was muttering Jericho thought he said "Crawdad Munchnicks" so he said "wtf is a Crawdad Munchnicks?" Shelton finally told him it was a TBone suplex but Jericho had no clue what that was, so he said when it was time for the finish he just lunged at Shelton with his arms and legs spread, hoping that Shelton could do the move to him in some way :lmao. I love those kinds of stories.



RatedR10 said:


> The Heyman podcast was truly awesome... both parts. I can't be the only one who legit lol'd when Heyman revealed he had listened to six weeks worth of Raw creative conference calls and he got bitched at for falling asleep through one because his phone was off the hook and they found out he disconnected even though he was sleeping. :lmao



Oh man that had me rolling. I don't understand why Vince would get so pissed about him listening in on the call, you'd think since both brands technically work for the same company, you'd want both shows to be on the same page. That way they don't run similar angles simultaneously. Oh well. Gotta love Paul E.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Opinions on Vince/Taker SS 2003?


It's just Taker beating Vince's ass for like 15 minutes, then Kane interferes and helps Vince bury Taker alive. I had a difficult time sitting through it just because it felt like it dragged on a bit. Vince's selling is pretty comical, and I'm pretty sure he gets busted open super early in this one.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Triple H, X-Pac, Dean Malenko, Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn vs Cactus Jack, The Rock, 2 Cool & Rikishi - WWF Raw 07.02.2000*

'The Texas Raw Tag'

x1qmjkd


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Another upload, WATCH THIS SHIT NOW FUCKERS: 

*Steven Regal vs Larry Zbyszko (WCW Saturday Night 05.28.1994)*

x1qmyq8


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I hope you have their COTC match to upload and share with everyone too. They need to see BOTH . Has anyone read LARRY LAND, Larry's book? The chapter about the Regal feud is interesting.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well, here it is to compare.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just going to put this out: Sheamus/Barrett fucking RULED. Fuck it, I'm throwing it ***3/4 for being the awesome, fast paced spectacle of two guys beating the holy guacamole out of each other.

Is it just me... or has Barrett had MOTN on Raw for 2 weeks straight? 8*D


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

"Crawdad Munchnicks" 

:lmao that is brilliant


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ATF said:


> Just going to put this out: Sheamus/Barrett fucking RULED. Fuck it, I'm throwing it ***3/4 for being the awesome, fast paced spectacle of two guys beating the holy guacamole out of each other.
> 
> Is it just me... or has Barrett had MOTN on Raw for 2 weeks straight? 8*D


Of course he did. RVD better not fuck up his streak. 

But yeah, even as a Barrett mark, I'm shocked he's had MOTN two weeks in a row on Raw... although I knew the chemistry he has with Sheamus, so I was kind of expecting it this week. I have the match at ***3/4 bordering ****, and I'm gonna rewatch it. Still can't believe Barrett went over Sheamus clean. Almost everything is right in the world now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Who did Barrett wrestle last week?

Can't believe we went from Sheamus Vs Cesaro in the finals of the IC #1 contenders tournament to... Barrett Vs RVD? Leading to a match with Big E? And one of these guys being IC champ afterwards? Urgh. Good job the IC title is meaningless .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I did find a *Shawn Michaels & The Undertaker vs Goldust & Mankind (MSG House Show - 29.09.1996)* match that i may upload,


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I love that Barrett is getting this little push, and with Cesaro going down last night, that makes a Barrett victory that much more likely.

Strange that they're seemingly blowing off Cesaro/Swagger on Smackdown and not the PPV. Those two could put on a damn fine match PPV match if given the time. Not sure if they're pursuing Cesaro/RVD after that backstage promo.

Also, it wouldn't surprise me if Cesaro went on to win MITB, which is probably a bit better than the IC title. 

I love that Barrett has embraced the gimmick, and the guy is pretty over with the crowd.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Who did Barrett wrestle last week?
> 
> Can't believe we went from Sheamus Vs Cesaro in the finals of the IC #1 contenders tournament to... Barrett Vs RVD? Leading to a match with Big E? And one of these guys being IC champ afterwards? Urgh. Good job the IC title is meaningless .


He wrestled Ziggler last week.

Sheamus/Cesaro would've been great, but Barrett/RVD is a fresh match up I look forward to seeing . I know they faced at some point after RVD returned when Barrett was still a total jobber, but I look forward to seeing if they have any chemistry.

Barrett is getting very over with the crowd. He definitely got one of the five biggest pops of the night, and won almost all crowd support from Sheamus. The fact Barrett has made this comedy act one of the most over parts of the show consistently the last several weeks is amazing.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I do admit that, after seeing *CESARO* having a rather bleh match w/him, I don't think Barrett has much chance of keeping that streak. That being said, I do hope RVD gets his shit together and he and Barrett produce something at least decent. These last few weeks proven Barrett can go in the ring. Yes, his opponents were Ziggler and Sheamus, and yes I am a Barrett fan so I should speak for myself, but it was far, far from a carryjob in either case. And I don't expect Big E/Barrett to be much better either tbh (they're not SERIOUSLY going w/RVD, are they?), but then again, I don't think nobody really expected Big E/Swagger to be good despite Swagger's presence and look how that turned out.

I really don't think they're putting out Cesaro/RVD on PPV after the massive dissapointment their Raw match was (the crowd wasn't even that into it to begin with). Cesaro/Swagger can just end on a double DQ or countout and have some gimmick match at ER. Plus, they teased Zeb getting the Swing and that moment should be kept for PPV as it stands.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Taboo Tuesday 2004*

Ahh, another new PPV added to the schedule in 2004. This time it's on the Raw side of things, and rather than being a WCW event brought back from the dead.. it's a new show. On a TUESDAY. Based around people voting for matches and stipulations on the interwebs! For what it's worth, I liked the concept.

We start the show deciding what slutty outfits the divas should wear later tonight :lmao. Naughty Nurses, French Maids or School Girls? School Girls win. 


*Chris Jericho Vs Shelton Benjamin - Intercontinental Championship Match*

So if I am remembering correctly, Jericho genuinely didn't know who his opponent was until it was announced, and was told by the referee what the outcome would after the voting results were announced, and Jericho had to ask the referee what Shelton's finisher was :lmao.

Shelton was the fan favourite in the audience, and the voting online was the same! Shelton got 37% of the votes... out of 15 people! Not bad!!!

ARM DRAG~!

ARM DRAG~!

ARM DRAG~!

ENZIGURI~! THIS ONE IS OVER!!!! WHAT? NO? SHELTON KICKED OUT? ISN'T THAT JERICHO'S FINISHER? Oh, no, it's just the shitty way they ended that handicap match with Christian and Trish Vs Jericho...

Jericho is working over the back of Shelton, with some nice FOOTBALL kicks (or soccer for you 'MURICANS) and a backbreaker where he keeps Shelton on his knee and bends him as well as clubs his mid-section for extra effect.

Aaaaand then Shelton hits a superplex.

:lmao Jericho MISSES A PUNCH.

BULLDOG~!

MISSED LIONSAULT~!

FLYING CLOTHESLINE~! JERICHO KICKS OUT~! WHAT? ISN'T THAT SHELTON'S FINISHER? Oh, no, it's just the shitty way they ended the Flair Vs Shelton match...

LIONSAULT CONNECTS~! Shelton kicks out though. No biggie.

Wait... isn' THAT Jericho's finisher? IT IS. And Shelton kicked out of it. And nobody cares.

T-BONE~! SHELTON WINS THE IC TITLE~!

Well this match is...ok. Absolutely nothing special, but a nice little match.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Promos from Edge, Benoit and HBK as they try to get the fans to vote for them into the WHC match later tonight. Edge is angry and after beating HBK and Benoit the night before believes he deserves this shot. Benoit cuts a GOOD PROMO. And HBK tells us he's injured (which he was).

Aaaaand the winner is... HBK. Urgh. HHH Vs HBK. Fuck that shit. I'M VERY DISAPPOINTED IN EVERYONE WHO VOTED. Edge walks away pissed off.


*Trish Stratus Vs Stacy Keibler Vs Jazz Vs Molly Holly Vs Victoria Vs Nidia Vs Gail Kim - WWE Women's Championship School Girl Outfit Fulfil Your Fantasy Battle Royal*

FAP FAP FAAAAAP Trish looks AMAZING.

:lmao Lawler says he wants to go all the way back to kindergarten :lmao.

Jazz makes me wanna throw up.

FAP FAP Gail Kim looks great too.

FAP FAP STACY KIEBLER.

And now the entrances are done with... SKIP! 

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Kane Vs Gene Snitsky - Weapon of Choice Match*

:lmao this fucking angle. On the surface it was... disturbing, sick and offence. Yet somehow they made it funny :lmao. 

IT WASN'T MY FAULT~! Snitsky punting a baby into the crowd will always be :lmao.

THE ONLY THING DEAD AROUND HERE KANE, IS YOUR BABY~!

The CHAIN is voted as the weapon!

LITA FAP FAP at ringside too.

LOL at the referee just dropping the chain in the middle of them leaving them to fight over it :lmao.

And then... Kane throws it out of the ring. Because... PUNCHES TO THE FACE~!

Oooook... after punching him in the face for about 20 seconds Kane goes outside and grabs the chain. WHY DIDN'T YOU USE IT TO START WITH?!

PUNCH TO THE FACE WITH THE CHAIN~! That beat UNDERTAKER in the chain match in 03 with Lesnar. Here, Snitsky just sells it like a normal punch .

:lmao Snitsky starts whipping Kane with the chain and I'm fairly certain the chain catches Kane in the balls at one point . SNITSKY KILLED THE CHANCE OF ANY MORE KANE BABIES!!!

LITA WANTS SNITSKY TO GO DOWN~! :lmao

Plenty of stuff in this match to satisfy people who like to see 2 big bastards beat each other... uhhh maybe I should rephrase that. Later.

DOUBLE BIG BOOT SPOT~! I'm a fan of that spot. Should happen more. Fuck the double clothesline crap. 

Snitsky... brings in a steel chair and smashes it in Kane's throat. And doesn't get DQ'd. Because... uhhh...

After a few hard shots to the throat of Kane, Snitsky gets the chain again? Kane tries to fight back and Snitsky just fucking MAULS him with shots to the face!!!

CHAIR AROUND THE THROAT OF KANE~! SNITSKY JUMPS OFF THE ROPES ONTO IT~! KANE IS BLEEDING FROM THE MOUTH~! THE REFEREE STOPS THE MATCH~! UHHHH OR NOT~! SNITSKY PINS KANE~!

MOST of this is really good. Some dumb moments, like how Snitsky was allowed to use a chair even though the only weapon allowed was the CHAIN, but overall this is a fun big man brawl!

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Eric Bischoff Vs Eugene - Choose the Loser's Fat Match*

The loser becomes the winner's servant or has to wear a dress for a month OR gets their head shaved. But we don't get the results until AFTER the match. Which I'm skipping straight to .

Bischoff has to shave his head. Vince McMahon ends up coming out to make sure it happens, then randomly makes Coach put in the dress.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*La Resistance Vs Chris Benoit & Edge - World Tag Team Championship Match*

So since Benoit and Edge lost a shot at the WHC... they get to face the tag champs instead lol. Normally I'd NO a Lad Resistance match, but it's BENOIT. Plus Edge is all crazy and this might be good storyline/angle wise.

Match is average really, because La Resistance suck . One of them even manages to fuck up a FLAP JACK. Not the first time that's happened to someone with Benoit though . At least we go get the nice storyline/character element in the match with Edge being pissed off and also distracted at the same time. At one point Benoit has to grab Edge on the outside and tell him to get back into the match because he's too busy arguing with fans who likely voted for HBK to be in the main event over him lol.

Oh my god how long does this last? Even Edge gets fed up and fucks off lol.

:lmao Benoit beats the tag champs and wins the titles on his own.

Match lasts too long as is dull as fuck for 90% of it.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Christy Hemme Vs Carmella - Lingerie Pillow Fight*

So Carmella was the runner up for that diva search crap, and was kept around for a while apparently.

Christy is FAP.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

What? OH THANK FUCK. Almost had a heart attack when I saw 50 minutes left on the show and thought THIS was the main event. Still got Orton/Flair to go. Phew. Bad enough I gotta sit through this garbage, never mind another 50 minute match between the two. Still got Bad Blood to go though .

So HBK was willing to wrestle a title match on a PPV with his injured leg but wouldn't even bother with a tag match at a live event I was at in Sheffield? WHAT A SELFISH PRICK .

Ok, the bell rings and... oooo Marvel: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D is on tonight :mark:. No Person of Interest though. Fucks sake America, is it REALLY that hard to have a show run for a full season without having random weeks off ALL THE FUCKING TIME? 

Anyway, the match has starts and HHH wants to go for the leg so HBK is fighting him off to save his... leg. Duh. :lmao FFS Shawn. He just want for a KICK with the injured leg. HHH caught it and now HBK is fucked. Serves him right for being so damn STUPID.

So this match isn't BAD. It's not their typical match because they aren't trying to have some ***** classic epic ZOMGLEBOB match. This time HBK has the bad leg so it's just HHH trying to maul the bad like and HBK trying to fight back. And it works. HBK does some dumb shit with the bad leg every now and then, but nothing that makes me wanna call this a horrible steaming pile of shit match lol.

HBK makes the best comeback he can make on one leg, Batista shows up, fails to cause a distraction and HHH gets SUPERKICKED TO HELL. Then EDGE shows up, Spears HBK, and HHH wins.

Like I said, this ain't bad. It's also nothing THAT special. Just a solid match... which is still one of their better matches together :lmao.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Mr Kennedy sighting backstage.


*Randy Orton Vs Ric Flair - Steel Cage Match*

Orton won the WHC and Evolution kicked him out, then HHH won the title from him. Now Flair wants Orton because... HHH beating him and taking the title from him wasn't enough? Bah who cares, OLD MAN FLAIR IN A CAGE :mark:.

Lawler makes the comment that Flair has probably had more cage matches than Orton has had matches... and when I thought about it... it could actually be true :lmao. Orton has only really been wrestling for what, 3 years at this point? Flair would have a cage match with someone at a big event back in the 70's and 80's... then do it about 30 more times on house shows around the country. And he did it with more than one opponent over the years too. Then add up actual TV and PPV cage matches with the NWA/Mid-Atlantic, WCW and WWF back in the day, including WAR GAMES too and DAMN, you got a LOT of fucking cage matches!!!

Both guys start off trying to kill each other with punches and chops :mark:. Flair with a LOW BLOW right in front of the referee because, fuck it, CAGE MATCH :mark:. Then he sends Orton into the side of the cage a bunch of times and Orton is BLEEDING :mark:. FLAIR MAULING A BLOODIED ORTON INSIDE A CAGE :mark:. FLAIR'S FIST IS COVERED IN ORTON'S BLOOD FROM PUNCHING HIS HEAD :mark:.

NOW FLAIR IS BLEEDING~! Once Flair sees his own blood he tries to climb out of the cage, so Orton pulls down his pants and exposes Flair's arse... something I've seen far too much as a wrestling fan :lmao.

Orton is pummelling Flair, so Flair has to go back to the LOW BLOW~!

HATE~! Plenty of that here :mark:. No fancy bullshit, just both guys bleeding and punching each other in the fucking FACE. Couldn't have asked for much more tbh.

BRASS KNUCKS~! Orton is KNOCKED OUT!!! But still manages to KICK OUT!!!

"OHHH GOD, OH MY LEG GOD DAMMIT!!!" Flair rules :mark:. He manages to grab a chair while attempting to escape, but misses and Orton hits a fucking sweeeeeeet RKO for the win!!!

Yeah this was good shit. They just beat the FUCK out of each other. They both bled. It was exactly what it SHOULD have been. And this is still only the second best cage match Flair would have at Taboo Tuesday!!!

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 4*​


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Who is Bryan's opponent going to be for the NEXT PPV, after ER? Are they gonna recycle Batista? Doesn't Orton still have a rematch clause? I don't know about you guys, but I don't think the world needs ANOTHER Orton/Bryan matchup in 2014. They've run that match into the dirt. Payback is next after ER right? I'm guessing they go with Batista, as sad as that is.

The WWE had the best heel in the business as a FACE right now doing absolutely fuck all after he just signed a 3 year agreement. Mark Henry would be such a great opponent for Bryan. As much as a Sheamus/Bryan match up would be great, if they are even going that direction, I'd MUCH rather it be Henry. Him going at Bryan on one of his classic heel promos and beating the absolute shit out of him would really help keep Bryan firmly in that underdog slot he's so successful in.

Honestly though, the Henry thing is a total pipe dream with about a 5% chance of ever happening. So whose it gonna be, Sheamus, Batista, Orton, or someone else, to face Bryan at PB for the title?

I'm not a big fan of this Cesaro/Heyman pairing so far. It's not doing anyone any favors, they don't appear to have any chemistry, and for some reason all Heyman wants to talk about is Brock. Unless they are just building to a Brock/Cesaro match at Summerslam, I really don't see where this is going. And no, Cesaro should not be winning if that's the match up they want. Just being in the ring with Brock would be a MASSIVE elevation for Cesaro. He could lose clean and still come out smelling like a rose, if they match is as goo in real life as it appears on paper. 

If they ARENT building to Brock/Cesaro, then what exactly is the point of this Heyman/Cesaro pairing? It's definitely not helping Cesaro right now, as it stands. He seemed primed for a face turn after WM but now it's like the crowd doesn't know how to react to him.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah, Trips/Shawn was difficult to sit through. Don't remember seeing Flair/Orton, but I most certainly will check that out. 

Please explain what a ZOMGLEBOB is. I'm at a loss.

@CJack: Batista is supposed to be taking off for a bit after Extreme Rules, so it likely won't be him. Don't know what they'll do with Bryan.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

If Orton's going to invoke his rematch clause I really hope it's on Raw. Seen that match way too many times for it to headline _another_ PPV. The thing is, although I'd rather see Bryan/Cesaro or Bryan/Wyatt a million times more than Bryan/Orton, Orton can take a clean loss without it damaging his momentum (because he doesn't have any) and credibility. Bray losing again so soon after the Cena loss at Mania would kinda suck. Now that I think about it Bryan/HHH II could be a realistic option for the next PPV. I have a feeling Evolution might go over at Extreme Rules. Bryan can retain against Orton with Shield foiling Evolution's plans and against Trips at the PPV in similar circumstances leading to Evolution/Shield II with Shield getting their win back.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Judgment day 2001 review 

Match #1: William Regal vs Rikishi* 

This match should be awesome just because William Regal is hilarious at life. I’ve seen some gifs from this match where he is just making some of the most GOAT facial expressions, which I can believe for sure. Match is short as fuck which bums me out big time because for the 4 minutes they got the match was plenty of fun and gave us the GOAT Regal expression which was the highlight of the match along with regal getting STINKFACED :mark:. If only this was given a bit more time it could have developed into a better match. ** 

CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #2: Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit 
*
No idea if this match is any good or not, because sometimes I LOVE them together but then sometimes the matches they have just flat out suck dick. LOL at how quickly the first fall comes, Benoit beats Angle with the Angle slam, Angle officially buried :lol. Match is shit, the first two falls aren’t that bad but this was just terrible, apparently they finally get it right at BL 2001 and then they fuck all that up here. Its just a dull and pointless match. The ladder match part especially is just bad, nothing special at all and it has a shitty finish with a run in by E&C. Nothing to this at all and another example of why these two have shitty chemistry, disappointing start to this show. ** 

CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #3: Test vs Big Show vs Rhyno 
*
:mark: this should be a ton of fun, big show up until 2009 or so is just fucking awesome so looking forward to this match, also Big Show was an awesome Hardcore champ at the time, that mania 3 way with Kane and Raven :mark:. This was an awesome brawl, RHYNO :mark: he wins this match unexpectedly and Big Shows fun reign is over but thus begins the era of RHYNO :mark:. Wait, Rhyno was already the champion? Well I am stupid :lol. Great brawl with some fun usage of hardcore elements that made it just awesome, fun gem of a match.* **3/4 

CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #4: Chyna vs Lita 

NO

CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #5: Triple H Vs Kane *

This is a CHAIN match, what an interesting idea, I do believe I saw an NWA chain match with Nikoli Volkoff in it but besides that I don’t think I have seen one unless I am forgetting one, I have seen some pretty bad STRAP matches but this is a chain which is much more awesome than the fucking strap. Match is a ton of fun and the chain stipulation helped out a ton by making this more of a hardcore esque match better than just slapping a street fight stip on there. Also thank GOD that this wasn’t a touch 4 corners situation, because that shit is WOAT. But anyways match is good and then Austin accidently costs Trips the match and Kane wins the IC strap, lots of fun stuff here.* ***3/4 

CAL SCALE: 4 

Match #6: APA Vs Perry Saturn & Dean Malenko Vs The Dudley Boys Vs X-Factor Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Chris Jericho and Chris Benoit vs Edge ad Christian*

:mark: at the talent in this match, too bad it’s a turmoil match though, 99% of these usually suck. Well this wasn’t nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be, was it great? No I didn’t think so but maybe its because I don’t like how this one match is basically 5 little ones and it bored me a bit, it was fun in spurts and it was a really fun match but I walked away from it thinking meh, it just wasn’t special to me at all. Best part about this to me was that it created what might be one of the better Raw matches of all time for the tag titles, but besides that it just didn’t give me much to be excited out, the match wasn’t bad at all, I just don’t get the hype as I have seen stuff like over 4 stars for this thing and I just don’t get that, perfectly acceptable tag match but nothing that special. ****1/4 

CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #7: The Undertaker vs Steve Austin 
*
Never liked these guys together at all and I seriously doubt that this match will be any different, never say never I suppose but there is already one :mark: thing to take away from this, VINCE ON COMMENTARY :mark:. Match is a lot of fun and much better than I ever expected out of these two seeing as I don’t even remember being a huge fan of the first blood match that these guys had in 1999 that people always tell me was amazing, this was MUCH better than that imo. This was slow in some parts but the last 5-7 minutes were a ton of fun and I thought the ending was not THAT much of a clusterfuck, thought Kane came out way too late and the ending could have been a lot more suspenseful had Trips just Barely stopped Kane from breaking up the pin, but besides that I liked the ending a lot. The NHB stip helped the match a lot too, just because these two when they aren’t in a bloody weapon infused war just don’t seem to really click, hell even their SS 98 match sucked and that was a NHB match so IDK they just clicked tonight it seems and were able to put on an awesome match. *****

CAL SCALE: 5 

FINAL CAL SCALE: 10 

Current 2001 ppv rankings 

1: Invasion(15) 
2: King of the ring(13) 
3: Judgment day(10) 
4: No way out(9)
*​


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Think the TTT match deserves more LOVE. Second best match of the night imo .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Barrett still sucks. 

Cesaro/Heyman has been off since the first night. 

I'm glad Bryan/HHH II wasn't booked for Extreme Rules because it would have been ruined by the unfortunate passing of Bryan's father and also his honeymoon, basically forcing him to miss the entire build. It worked out better in the end and hopefully when they do it again, we'll get a proper program between the two. RIP daddy Danielson . 

Mark Henry is irrelevant after he got BORKED. 

I'd be down for Bryan/Bray again provided Bray goes over Cena.

Speaking of Cena, where the hell does he go next? 

Interdasting timez in teh e.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Barrett still sucks.
> 
> Cesaro/Heyman has been off since the first night.
> 
> ...


If Cesaro/Lesnar happens at SS, don't be surprised the ME to be Cena/Bryan II


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

My question is who would Bryans opponent be for Payback? I guess the obvious answer would be Orton since he didn't get his rematch clause..... we've seen Orton/Bryan so much though so I don't know how I'd feel about that yet again since I'm attending. 

With the ppv being entitled payback, who would try and get payback against Bryan? I could see Bryan/HHH II here. Or how bout Cena vs Bryan II? Its in Chicago so it'll be an awesome crowd.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

How much is HHH gonna wrestle in 2014 Hutz


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> How much is HHH gonna wrestle in 2014 Hutz




My opinion is probably more than most think, he's in terrific shape right now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Never thought id say this, but after his Mania performance, i wouldn't mind seeing him wrestle again this year, given the right circumstances, probably in a Bryan rematch.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Well he put over Bryan and looks to be putting over Shield next so he'll need a few of your favourite wrestlers to bury to keep the momentum going so probably 3 or 4 times?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im unsure how a Reigns/HHH match would go if im honest, if that is where they are going.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> My opinion is probably more than most think, he's in terrific shape right now.


Agreed. He's wrestling at Extreme Rules, HHH/Reigns seems to be planned for SummerSlam, and I wouldn't be surprised if they do a rematch with Bryan at some point. Wouldn't be surprised if Evolution/Shield go at it more than once either. Wouldn't be totally shocked to see a Batista/Orton/H triple threat on top of all that. I'm all for it. His performance at Mania was his best in years, and not just because he was working with Bryan. He's so much better as a sadistic heel than the badass babyface he's been trying to be (and failing for the most part) for the last few years. Plus he's in great shape.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Well I woudnt mind Bryan/HHH II at PB but Reigns/HHH Could be fucking terrible


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

HHH/Reigns would most likely have a stipulation I'd think. Wouldn't be as terrible lol. 

I just fucking hope payback is better than last year that only had Ziggler/Del Rio. Rest was pretty poor IMO. Just purchased $75 tickets.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't buy all this Reigns/HHH talk. It's just everybody letting the dirt sheets work them into a frenzy over something that could turn out to be nothing in the end. I can't see HHH losing so cleanly to Bryan in an awesome put over job and then doing the exact same thing for Reigns within 6 months of each other. I don't buy it but I guess we'll find out in 6 months.

EDIT - I don't think it matters what the card for Payback is because all that place is going to be concerned with is chanting CM Punk for 3 hours straight lol.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

HHH is usually awesome in hardcore gimmick matches, so I wouldn't worry about the quality of a Reigns/HHH match if it has the proper gimmick


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Bryan/Henry should be a good filler feud for BG and MITB imo, then for sure do Bryan/Cena II at SS. Reigns/HHH could be awesome I guess, but I'm afraid Reigns is still green, so the big three matches for SS looks like this atm? 

HHH/Reigns 
Cesaro/Lesnar 
Bryan/Cena II 

:mark: if that comes true


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Well he put over Bryan and looks to be putting over Shield next so he'll need a few of your favourite wrestlers to bury to keep the momentum going so probably 3 or 4 times?


People are gonna hate but I agree. He needs a win or two heading into SummerSlam to make the match with Reigns as big as possible. Bryan's underdog story worked for that match but it's not going to work for Reigns if Trips keep losing. His recent record is 2 losses against Taker, 2 losses against Lesnar, a win against Lesnar and a loss against Bryan. 1-5. Reigns beating him at SummerSlam won't be as big a deal as it could be if Hunter's coming in on the back of a losing streak.



The Hitman said:


> Im unsure how a Reigns/HHH match would go if im honest, if that is where they are going.


Me too. I'm unsure about any big Roman Reigns singles match at this point tbh with you. Best bet is a crazy gimmick brawl I'd think. Can't see them working a great non-gimmick match like HHH/Bryan.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> EDIT - I don't think it matters what the card for Payback is because all that place is going to be concerned with is chanting CM Punk for 3 hours straight lol.




Unfortunately. I love Punk, but It's retarded to chant his name at this event and I won't be. Guy isn't coming back for a while. I say a while thinking he'll be back in 2015.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> People are gonna hate but I agree. He needs a win or two heading into SummerSlam to make the match with Reigns as big as possible. Bryan's underdog story worked for that match but it's not going to work for Reigns if Trips keep losing. His recent record is 2 losses against Taker, 2 losses against Lesnar, a win against Lesnar and a loss against Bryan. 1-5. Reigns beating him at SummerSlam won't be as big a deal as it could be if Hunter's coming in on the back of a losing streak.


He's Triple H. He'll always be credible. But the impact of the rub he can give will only diminish if he keeps losing and losing without picking up any steam in the interim. Anyway it shouldn't be all up to Trips to put everybody over. They have Cena, fucking use him. And when the time comes they can use Lesnar to give a HUGE rub to somebody if they build it right. 

I'd like to see Bryan/Batista in a proper singles program later this year though. That's always a possibility for Summerslam. Perhaps Orton/Brock too? Maybe when Evolution disbands Orton breaks off, goes tweener for a bit and then turns face again for a summer program with Lesnar since they've all but ruined him as a heel. That's a big match. I don't know what they have in store for Cena after the Wyatt stuff is over though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jericho said this, and I happen to agree with him, that a heel can't lose EVERY match, but a good heel can lose say, 7 out of 10 matches and still be just as credible as ever. Ric Flair almost NEVER won clean, ever, back during his amazing run in the 80's. But man, he was brilliant at talking people into the building. Hunter as a heel can cut one solid promo, so as long as he picks up a win here and there on TV he can lose 75% of his matches and still be a threat for the fans. It's all about how it's booked and presented. That said, Reigns isn't big enough to warrant a win over Trips, atleast IMO. He's still at the level where, if the match is good enough, Reigns can lose to Hunter and still come out looking great just from being in a competitive match with a Hall of Famer.

I NEVER thought I'd hear myself saying this a month ago, but I'm down for Trips wrestling as much as he wants to for the rest of the year. He looked physically better than he has in over a decade, and work wise he looked better than I've seen him in 5+ years. WWE is really thin at the top heel spot (it's their own doing but whatever) so having a guy like him around will only help this young crop of talent they have.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching Bad Blood 2004. Kane/Benoit is the main event and nobody can tell me otherwise. SHOW ENDS AFTER THAT MATCH.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Watching Bad Blood 2004. Kane/Benoit is the main event and nobody can tell me otherwise. SHOW ENDS AFTER THAT MATCH.


Kanes best match!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I'd like to see Bryan/Batista in a proper singles program later this year though. That's always a possibility for Summerslam. Perhaps Orton/Brock too? Maybe when Evolution disbands Orton breaks off, goes tweener for a bit and then turns face again for a summer program with Lesnar since they've all but ruined him as a heel. That's a big match. I don't know what they have in store for Cena after the Wyatt stuff is over though.


I hope you're right.

SummerSlam will be massive if they go with:

Cena/Reigns
Bryan/Batista
Brock/Orton



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Watching Bad Blood 2004. Kane/Benoit is the main event and nobody can tell me otherwise. SHOW ENDS AFTER THAT MATCH.


For once KING CAL is 100% right!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I hope you're right.
> 
> SummerSlam will be massive if they go with:
> 
> ...


I'd rather see this card for SS:

Orton/Batista/Trips w/ Flair as the Ref Evolution Triple Threat
Bryan vs Cena II
Cesaro vs Brock

Or-

Brock vs Cena II
Orton vs Batista or Cesaro
Bryan vs Bray
Reigns vs Ambrose vs Rollins

But it's just wayyyy to early to predict. I don't want to just punt on Orton being a heel yet, they need him. As far as full time top bad guys, he's really all they got at the moment. And I seriously doubt Punk is walking through the door anytime soon.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Evolution triple threat is actually pretty cool. Just not at SummerSlam. It's Orton/Brock or gtfo for me. 

Evolution triple threat could happen at MITB, Orton wins and temporarily turns tweener/face for a match with Bork at SS. He loses and snaps so on Raw he just attacks a bunch of people for no reason to reestablish himself as a heel.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> Barrett still sucks.


HATER!



Starbuck said:


> He's Triple H. He'll always be credible. But the impact of the rub he can give will only diminish if he keeps losing and losing without picking up any steam in the interim. Anyway it shouldn't be all up to Trips to put everybody over. *They have Cena, fucking use him.* And when the time comes they can use Lesnar to give a HUGE rub to somebody if they build it right.


You'd like to think they are on Wyatt... but we'll have to wait and see on that.

I think Lesnar's either going to job to either Bryan or Cesaro. Cesaro could definitely use it more as Bryan got put over plenty at Mania, and Bryan slaying Lesnar after he ended the streak would be the biggest win of his career by far, and would definitely elevate to and cement his spot as if not above Cena, Cena's equal. On the other hand, Cesaro breaks off from Heyman, fights Lesnar at Mania next year and beats him in an impressive show of strength? Would make him an instant main eventer right away.

As for HHH, he had his hand in solidifying Bryan as a main eventer, if he wasn't already solidified, and The Shield as a unit don't really need to be put over by Evolution, and thus I do think Evolution should beat them. It won't hurt them and a win won't help them, but it will set the stage for HHH (and Batista) to put over at least two the three guys individually. I'm hoping Rollins and Ambrose by HHH and Batista respectively, but it'll probably be Reigns to HHH and Rollins to Batista.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> HHH is usually awesome in hardcore gimmick matches, so I wouldn't worry about the quality of a Reigns/HHH match if it has the proper gimmick


HHH would help him a lot in that match. I hope Reigns can prove his doubters wrong, no matter who he faces in the future. I see money in him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus vs Barrett was good stuff. Natural chemistry is natural. Liked everything w/Bray, including the handicap match. Kane going monster was needed to build towards the match and whatnot. Rest was weak TV, as expected.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Orton/Brock is never happening brother


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I can see Orton/Lesnar happening because I have a feeling Brock will sign another 2 year deal. (His last one)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Bad Blood 2004*

Jebus, save me from the boredom of the upcoming HIAC match.

Please .


*La Resistance Vs Edge & Chris Benoit - World Tag Team Championship Match*

Wait... didn't I already watch this? Oh, that was Taboo Tuesday. Why is Benoit going for the tag titles?

I... can't sit through this again.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Chris Jericho Vs Tyson Tomko*

Wow, big match here. So big I'm not worthy of watching it. 

WOW. Trish is wearing one hell of an outfit. FAP.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


Orton cuts a promo backstage, hears the fans booing him, so he wanders out into the ring to bitch at them :lmao. Good stuff. Then Shelton (his opponent for later tonight) shows up and ruins it by trying to cut a promo himself. They end up having their IC title match NOW.


*Randy Orton Vs Shelton Benjamin - WWE Intercontinental Championship Match*

So Orton is thrown off his game by having this match start early, allowing Benjamin to dictate the early going of the match, while the fans are BEHIND ORTON. LOL. Nice to see those wins over HHH helped Shelton 8*D.

HUGE MOTHERFUCKING POP FOR THE NATURE BOY~! Flair seemingly just decides to come down to ringside because... WOOOOOO! Orton is in control by this point too btw, so he ain't there to help.

:lmao WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT? I *think* Orton hit a European Uppercut... but Shelton apparently thought it was something else because it looked like he took a different move entirely :lmao.

ORTON WITH A BATISTA BOMB INTO A NECKBREAKER... WITHOUT BATISTA~! Always liked that move. Does he still do it? I don't pay much attention to his matches these days and I don't recall him doing it in the few I have seen recently .

HEADLOCK~!

FEELING SLEEPY~!

BORING~!

YAWN~!

Shelton's comeback is pretty cool, he does an awesome EXPLODER SHOULDER TACKLE.

STINGER SPLASH~! T-BONE~! FLAIR PUTS ORTON'S FOOT ON THE ROPES~!

STINGER SPLASH TO FLAIR~! Ha, totally thought Shelton was gonna do a Sharpshooter aka Scorpion Death Lock too, but he did a Figure Four instead. No BLACK STING tonight . Wait... BLACK SCORPION? MIND. BLOWN.

CROSS BODY~! ORTON ROLLS THROUGH~! 3 COUNT~!

This was all good except for Orton boring the shit out of everyone with that fucking headlock.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Trish Stratus Vs Lita Vs Gail Kim Vs Victoria - WWE Women's Championship Match*

TRISH still in that FAP FAP outift.

LITA LOOKING ALL FAP.

Cannot be arsed with the match though .

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*The Coach Vs Eugene*

I...

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Chris Benoit Vs Kane - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Thank FUCK for this. Knowing what's still to come in the main event, and the crap I've made sure to avoid so far, I'm looking forward to watching something GOOD.

How many people is Kane feuding with at this time btw? Matt Hardy was thrown out of the building earlier to make sure he didn't interfere in this match. The build up for Eugene/Coach was mainly based around Coach getting Kane to attack Eugene. And of course there is this match too lol. KANE IS A FEUD SLUT~!

Kane attacked Benoit in the tag title match earlier, costing Benoit the possibility of being a double champion, and hurting him going into this match. So Benoit wants to FUCK KANE UP.

Love the story going into this match, revolving around the fact that most of Benoit's offence WON'T WORK on Kane. We see it early on with Benoit trying to grab the arm and take Kane down, but Kane launches the champ across the ring instead.

:lmao "GET UP FLY BOY!" Benoit is FLY!!!

Benoit tries for a German, and Kane screams "NOOOO!!" then elbows Benoit in the face :lmao.

Sharpshooter attempt, but Kane powers out of it, then powers out of an attempted Crossface too! They are really working the story perfectly .

*sigh* for all the good stuff this match has, as usual it gets tainted a little by a damn REST HOLD. Hell even the commentators are so bored Lawler starts asking JR how Benoit lost his tooth. JR doesn't know. I do . His dog headbutted him.

Once they get out of the rest spot crap, we can get back to :mark: stuff. In fact the FIRST THING Benoit does after escaping the hold is try to single leg takedown Kane, but Kane blocks it and knocks Benoit down, keeping in with the story of the match!

Going face first into the ring post gives the Crippler a chance to wear down the BIG RED MONSTER, with a bunch of shots to the knee of the big man! Attempted Sharpshooter once more, but Kane is STILL able to power out! MOAR leg work, including Kane getting caught up in the ropes, and Benoit FINALLY locks in the submission!!! Nice pay off to something they've been building all match, but remember, this ISN'T Benoit's main submission finisher.

GERMANS~! Another example of how Benoit has finally worn down Kane enough to start hitting his offence, the same offence that Kane said Benoit couldn't use on him!!!

But Kane is still pretty damn UNSTOPPABLE. Even after the triple German suplexes, he sits up before Benoit can climb the ropes for a headbutt! ANOTHER 3 GERMAN'S~! HEADBUTT~! KANE IS DOWN! KANE IS DOWN!!!

NO!!! KANE SITS UP AGAIN!!!

Benoit cannot fucking believe it, so it's time to bring out the BIG stuff. Crossface... no! Kane is still able to power out! CHOKESLAM~!

1~!

2~!

BENOIT KICKS OUT!!! HOLY FUCK :mark:.

Now it's KANE'S turn to be shocked.

FLYING CLOTHESLINE... COUNTERED INTO A CROSSFACE~! Beautiful! Benoit was still unable to take Kane down and lock it in normally, so he used one of Kane's own signature moves against him!

HOLY FUCKING SHIT~! KANE POWERS OUT OF IT AGAIN!!!

Benoit keeps hold of Kane, and rolls him up instead! 3 count!!! Benoit wins!!! Still the champ!!!

:mark:

Dull rest hold aside, this rules . But you already knew that . I know I did. Might watch their Raw rematch to see which I prefer. Always remember it being just as good.

Kane's best match? Well... I'm still partial to his WM 14 match with Taker, but this is right up there too.

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*


*Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels - Hell in a Cell Match*

HHH claims he's never lost a HIAC match. I guess he just didn't win the 6 man from 2000, right? 

Oh god look at how long is left on this show. Who the FUCK watched their previous PPV matches from 02 to now and thought "Hey, I know, let's give them FIFTY FUCKING MINUTES! IT'LL BE GREAT!"? Some retard that's for sure. 

With video package and entrances, this is an HOUR. An hour of TRIPLE H. Vs HBK. Well, I guess now I will finally know the answer to the question "which is worse? HBK/Bret Iron Man or HHH/HBK HIAC?". Yey.

Urgh, very SLOW AND SLUGGISH brawling to start things off. Benoit/Kane match started with more HATE~! than this. I mean fuck, I swear these guys are in slow motion. In fact, that might explain why this match is so long! It's ACTUALLY only 25 minutes long, but it's running at half speed! Wow... even 25 minutes sounds awful though :lmao.

Yey methodical back work inside HIAC. Just what the fans wanted...

I'm about 15 minutes into this thing and bored shitless. 

OMG WAIT PILEDRIVER ON THE STEEL STEPS :mark:.

FUCKING HELL. HHH COUNTERED IT. FUCK YOU HUNTER.

2 SHOTS TO THE HEAD WITH THE STEEL STEPS~! HBK IS FUCKED!

HHH makes the cover and... DAMMIT HBK KICKED OUT.

WHY WON'T THIS END?

Bunch of chair shorts while they both fall down and sleep in between them. BECAUSE THIS IS EPIC.

And now a ladder. Because it makes sense to waste time getting out a ladder which is awkward to use rather than just stick with the steel chair...

ELBOW DROP OFF THE LADDER THROUGH A TAble... bah I cant even pretend to be excited by this. I'm starting to go into a trance brought on by sheer boredom.

Shawn just kicked out of something. The fans went crazy so I assume it was something big. I have no idea. I'm WATCHING the screen but not really seeing it. 

Rated R Souper Kick.

Pedigree Chum.

I think the match is finally over. Both guys aren't moving so I assume one won and is now resting while the other is beaten and also resti... oh wait no. They just decided to nap in the middle of the ring.

Shawn eats some more Pedigree Chum. He doesn't like it though and HHH wins.

I think I'm blind.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 4*​


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Payback was great. Everything except for the main event was awesome, and the main event was pretty funny.

Not a fan of Snitsky/Kane from Taboo Tuesday. Actually, I'm not a fan of much from that show except for the fun opener and Orton/Flair. But damn, Orton/Flair is probably the least talked about great match of the past ten years in the WWE.

No Mercy 2003 rules. Love Angle/Cena. I don't mind the MOVEZ and NEARFALLZ at the finishing stretch of the match. If anything, they were necessary for this to be the amazing match that it was. The point of this match was really to put over Cena without having him win, and they accomplished just that. Definitely one of Cena's best matches of his career. Main event was shit. Yeah, it's a brawl between two monsters, but it was a boring brawl.

Bryan/Wyatt needs to happen again. I kinda wish Ryback was still credible because Bryan never got his clean win against him.

Done with 2000. I'll probably do a review later this week. Great year as expected, and it's tough to pick who the MVP and who the workhorse of the year is. Wow, even the best show and the best match that year is tough to pick. Before moving on to 2001 or 2005, I think I'll rewatch every 2011 PPV. Gotta see if it still holds up as a great year for PPVs.

EDIT: Fuck that HHH/HBK match. I remember back when this all happened, all of us smarky Chicago fourth graders were tired of watching those two main event all the time. Benoit was our guy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I thought about watching Payback over yesterday. Instead I just watched Punk enter and turned it off. Don't know if I can take anything on that show again other than Del Rio vs Ziggler & AJ vs Kaitlyn. Shield tag is even a bummer, although not bad. Rest haha.

And no. Plenty of people talk about Orton vs Flair. You know what is never talked about but great? Cena vs Henry from MITB 2013. Whoop, there it is.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:lmao @ that review for the HBK/HHH snoozefest. Kinda how I felt watching that shit. Bret/HBK is not as bad because at least that match has a fun final 10-5 minutes to make up for 50 minutes of crap. This is 50 minutes of crap with nothing worth getting excited about.

Benoit/Kane RULES as does Orton/Shelton. Nothing is really bad on the show other than the main event.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Was the Hell in A Cell that bad? I know some people who love the shit out of that match(step-dad, and friends).


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watched WM 9 to continue watching 1993 since the TV from that year is on the network 

Tatanka/HBK: ***
Steiners/Headshrinkers: ***1/4 
Crush/Doink: DUD 
Backlund/Ramon: 1/2* 
Money inc/Hulkamaniacs: DUD 
Luger/Perfect: *1/2 
Taker/Giant: DUD 
Bret/Yoko: *
Hogan/Yoko: MOTHER OF ALL DUDS


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's easily one of the biggest flops ever attempted. @ HIAC 2004

how is Hogan vs Yoko that bad? It's not even a match. It's silly, and worth a smirk looking back on but it's nothing offensive unless you're one of those goons who Hogan trolls in the best fashion. Taker vs Gonzales > WM 12 Iron Man match too. I love getting to bust out that one again.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Because they had an awesome monster heel on their hands and Hogan ruins it within seconds, just bad booking.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Then June happens and Hogan is never seen from again. Monster heel established.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Just watched Umaga/Cena LMS, and holy fuck, I completely forgot about how incredible the match promo for this was. 



That fucking epic Rise Against music. Good god WWE has good taste in music.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Then June happens and Hogan is never seen from again. Monster heel established.


Idk, I just look back on it and think it makes zero sense at the time, but whatever 

I think its funny that the bell didnt even ring


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

4 more 04 PPV's to go. 3 of them have some things I know I like so yey, just not sure about Vengeance. Edge/Orton is something I always liked, but fuck knows now. And unsure of HHH/Benoit too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Bryan vs. HHH II in an Ironman at Payback. :lol

I'm 97% convinced we will get Bryan vs. Brock at Summerslam for the belt. Why the hell wouldn't we? Brock Lesnar just ENDED THE FUCKING STREAK. Plus, ya know, he hasn't lost since Wrestlemania 29. Check this scenario out. Cesaro wins MITB. Lesnar beats Bryan. To prove a point, Cesaro cashes in and beats Lesnar. We then get Bryan vs. Cesaro soon after. Everyone wins.

Orton vs. Shelton at Bad Blood was glorious fun. Cena vs. Henry at MITB was awesome. Such an atmosphere. Taboo Tuesday '04 fucking sucks. Cena vs. Ryback at Payback is actually fun. 

WASHINGTON WIZARDS!


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Benoit/Kane is amazing. Terrific work throughout, without Kane continuously powering out of the submission attempts, and then the finish is sweet. Was sure Kane would tap out there in the crossface. Show should have just ended there.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWF had to have their "send the fans home happy" thingy w/WM w/o it having any sign of flexibility. That's why it happened. And it's totally comical. No doubt. I just never found it to be so offensive, b/c once I realized the humor behind it, I was a teenager, and it was far too long ago to even care. Plus, it had a pay off in the end w/Yoko getting revenge. Def being a Hogan fan can cushion the blow. It's times like these when liking the guy who gets the dumb booking that's favorable can pay off w/tolerance. First 8*D _(not that I'm advocating it, but you know, fuck it. 21 years ago.)_

I'm too busy being more burned up about Michaels bitching at SummerSlam 1996 and jipping Vader. Second 8*D

-------------

Cal, good luck w/Vengeance 2004. I say skip Batista vs Jericho. You'll be clawing your eyes before it is over. And :lmao @ Benoit vs Triple H. So many only want to think the Eugene stuff isn't good. That was the only part of the match that went over smoothly. Orton vs Edge is still great for my money. Always had a liking for it. Better use of the headlock throughout as that wasn't Orton's random weardown hold, but use as his pacing mechanism to go from point A to point B.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Always thought Orton/Edge was overrated as hell but can't be bothered to watch it again to see if I change my mind.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Smackdown sounds incredible. We all have to watch it this week.

Love Orton/Edge. Their RAW 2007 match is their best. Shocked that Cody likes that match. I thought it would have qualified as one of those long workrate matches that you disliked. Sorta like Benoit/Malenko at Hog Wild or Bret/Michaels at Survivor Series 92.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah, those matches are trash and were long for science knows whatever reason. Orton vs Edge had a steady flow and knew what they were doing from bell to bell. I'm more bored by Danielson vs Triple H, for a spell during that overly long arm work, than I am that match.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Remember that one time Cesaro almost decapitated Bryan's head with 1,000 uppercuts? :banderas

Still one of my favorite moments of last year, or at least on RAW last year.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Nah, those matches are trash and were long for science knows whatever reason. Orton vs Edge had a steady flow and knew what they were doing from bell to bell. *I'm more bored by Danielson vs Triple H*, for a spell during that overly long arm work, than I am that match.


:wall


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

At least the Triple Threat Match held up as great. 8*D


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'd put the triple threat and wyatt/cena firmly ahead of Bryan/HHH tbh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, Cena vs Bray hasn't gotten the second viewing yet, but it was my MOTN originally, so I'm inclined to agree w/you Mr. SKINS.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Of course you would agree with him. When have you two disagreed?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I dunno. I don't concern myself w/learning other opinions on a wrestling forum.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

"Gave away my alt account" :deandre


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I rejoined after a long time to do an HBK gimmick. Had to stay grounded to myself, so I pimp Dolph & Eva Marie too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I also killed the original Yeah1993 and took over his account so I could talk to a person (who was actually me) about Meng and Goldberg and La Parka.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Of course you would agree with him. When have you two disagreed?


Shots fired?!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Is it possible to have an Australian counterpart w/great hair or is it just more of the myth that we're all the same account? :costanza

the smiley totally added btw.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Shots fired?!



Pretty soon FF will be dropping his own version of "Hit em Up" on Hayley and Skins... "First off fuck your bitch and the clique you claim, west side when we ride come equipped with game, you claim to be a player but I fucked your wife..." OH SHIT:gun::gun:

I too feel like I loved Cena/Bray more than most. I have it right with Hunter/Danielson for MotN. Can't wait for Brays revenge at ER. He impresses me more and more each and every week. Having him outshine Cena week in and week out on promos is only helping his cause.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM XXX triple threat is kinda crappy. HHH/Bryan, Cena/Wyatt and yes even Lesnar/Taker blow it away.

Added the 2001 perfect PPV to my site .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I think this place has FINALLY gone crazy if the WM 30 Bryan matches are the new victims of hate - Goddamned opinions :dazzler

Also Smitty, I FORUMLOVE YOU for agreeing with me that Hogan/Yoko is the mother of all DUD's. Thank fucking Christ 

Oh, and folks were talking great stuff that isn't talked about often? *Zayn/Swagger*. There.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Weird how Khali/Taker last man standing didn't happen at Summerslam 06, could've propelled the event from solid to pretty great.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Never got the love for Swagger/Zayn. It's a nice TV match but I don't think it comes anywhere near the Cesaro matches or anything like I've seen people claim.

Bryan at WM XXX was tremendous. HHH match is awesome, and while the triple threat is crappy, everything involving Bryan was great. Just the Batista/Orton shit that killed the match.

MyNameIsJonMarston, there is a good chance the match wouldn't have been as good on PPV. They did it on TV so they could edit it if needed. They didn't trust Khali on live PPV :lmao.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Swagger/Zayn doesn't really beat the 2/3 falls or Arrival matches alright, but I'd definitely put it above the first two.

And tbh I was actually, shockingly at that, into the Batista/Orton stuff from the Triple Threat. They kept it short and fun.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Never got the love for Swagger/Zayn. It's a nice TV match but I don't think it comes anywhere near the Cesaro matches or anything like I've seen people claim.
> 
> Bryan at WM XXX was tremendous. HHH match is awesome, and while the triple threat is crappy, everything involving Bryan was great. Just the Batista/Orton shit that killed the match.
> 
> MyNameIsJonMarston, there is a good chance the match wouldn't have been as good on PPV. They did it on TV so they could edit it if needed. They didn't trust Khali on live PPV :lmao.




Honestly after rewatching the triple threat I have to KIND OF agree. When I saw it live I though Orton and Batista were both pretty good with Bryan obviously being great. After the rewatch I came down a bit on it. Orton was still good, but Batista just did not turn in a good performance at all. His face was devoid of any emotion, he looked like he was a deer caught in the headlights at times, and just did nothing in general to add to the match. Bryan was outstanding, and I give Orton credit. He was really trying to make the segments with just him and Batista work, but Dave just wasn't there for him. Orton tried to be the biggest dick he could be, and he took the nastiest bump of the night onto that monitor, so I don't have problems with his performance.

After the rwewatching of the 4 big matches at WM, my ratings are:

Bryan/Hunter: **** (co-MotN)
Wyatt/Cena: **** (co-MotN)
Taker/Brock: ***1/4
Bryan/Batista/Orton: ***3/4

Still, an awesome event all the way around and the best Mania in over 5 years IMO.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd only say the Swagger match was better than the first Cesaro match, which IIRC was just a short impromptu match following Cesaro/Yoshi?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The only thing Taker/Lesnar blew away is Taker's career 8*D.

BAD BLOOD 2004. BENOIT/KANE :mark:. ORTON/SHELTON :mark:. HHH/HBK .

& Barrett still sucks.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of underrated, another very underrated show I just recalled is Bragging Rights 09. Admitedly, the best matches (Miz/Morrison and the Fatal 4-Way) I have tied at ***1/4 both p), but then again, I didn't thought a single match on that show was bad anyway.

Yes go ahead and kill me, I had a TON of fun watching the Orton/Cena Iron Man match. SPOTZ FTW BABY.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Match upload time:

*Hulk Hogan vs Randy Savage - Boston Garden, Boston - 05.24.1986*

x1qsqjv

Just watched the Warrior Network Doc. So well put together, but obviously very, very sad and emotional.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Seeing as we're somewhat on the subject of Zayn/Cesaro, am I the only one who MUCH prefers the 2/3 falls to their ArRIVAL match? Like... If we're throwing stars at it I'm talking 1/2* difference. Said it as soon as the bout ended @ ArRival that I preferred the 2/3 falls and it stays true to this day.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Had a very interesting morning in the ER and now I need something to watch, anyone wanna give me a ppv?


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I havn't got the Network myself, but thought this may interest people:

Some guy who's good with computers has created an automated Wiki that lets you choose any wrestler and see a complete list of their matches on the network, complete with links going straight to the match:

http://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/wiki/network/talent

Note that at the moment this includes some entries for match finishes, but he's filtering those out right now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> Had a very interesting morning in the ER and now I need something to watch, anyone wanna give me a ppv?
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Well you said ER, so I think that's a sign to watch some Extreme Rules. 2012 it is!



The Hitman said:


> I havn't got the Network myself, but thought this may interest people:
> 
> Some guy who's good with computers has created an automated Wiki that lets you choose any wrestler and see a complete list of their matches on the network, complete with links going straight to the match:
> 
> ...


Pretty cool find. Notice how Chris Benoit is not an option though.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Good call Jack, though considering I have seen 2012 so many times I may watch one of the other Extreme Rules show


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ultimate Warrior vs Ric flair:






The only footage i think of a match between them, although they did have a televised match, if that ever sees the light of day.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> I havn't got the Network myself, but thought this may interest people:
> 
> Some guy who's good with computers has created an automated Wiki that lets you choose any wrestler and see a complete list of their matches on the network, complete with links going straight to the match:
> 
> ...



That's cool and all, but the Network already has a search feature . You can search any wrestler (other than Benoit) and it'll show all the matches and segments he's involved in hahaha. It's on the top right hand corner of the screen.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

never knew heel Austin in 2001 was that entertaining :lmao

continuing my Jericho "project" now and am watching the SD two weeks before Unforgiven; 

his upcoming PPV matches

vs RVD @Unforgiven (Hardcore match)
vs The Rock @No Mercy
vs Angle @Rebellion
Survivor Series match
vs Rock/Austin @Vengeance

:mark: :mark: :mark:

Have seen none of those in full.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's cool and all, but the Network already has a search feature . You can search any wrestler (other than Benoit) and it'll show all the matches and segments he's involved in hahaha. It's on the top right hand corner of the screen.







I dont have the damned Network, so.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Smitty, you should watch Extreme Rules 11 if you haven't already.

Speaking of Extreme Rules, folks are more excited for *Bryan/Kane* or *Shield/Evolution*?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Bryan/Kane x1000 all their match have been good and fun and they will probaly get over 20 mins :mark:

No :flair = No buys or cares


NO one said they HATED bryan/hhh btw, I just think the other 2 matches were better and have gone back and rewatched them more


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Pretty cool find. Notice how Chris Benoit is not an option though.


Not only that, but the matches involving him are not listed for other wrestlers, including Royal Rumble. So this is nothing more than the search engine of the Network made available to everyone.

---------------

Also the triple threat from WM30 still rules after third watch. CAL's opinion should be disregarded since he's a blind hater of Orton & Batista.  Don't believe me? He even gave BRYAN credit for the table spot!


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's cool and all, but the Network already has a search feature . You can search any wrestler (other than Benoit) and it'll show all the matches and segments he's involved in hahaha. It's on the top right hand corner of the screen.


Well the network search spoils the end of matches and doesn't cover everything just yet so this is very welcome to me at least.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Just re-watched Jericho/Rey from The Bash :banderas

That main event though fpalm


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I also did a rewatch of a hidden classic: Jericho/Bourne from Fatal 4-Way 2010. FUCK ME that is great stuff.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

What do you guys think of Punk/Umaga from Judgment Day?

I just watched it again and I thought it was pretty excellent.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Not that great to me, tbh. Rey/Jericho from the same show is fucking excellent though. Edge/Hardy is good too imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

William Murderface said:


> What do you guys think of Punk/Umaga from Judgment Day?
> 
> I just watched it again and I thought it was pretty excellent.


Yeah its pretty darn good. I remember watching the show live and being extremely surprised by how good it was.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Yeah its pretty darn good. I remember watching the show live and being extremely surprised by how good it was.


Makes you realize that the a stupid strap match can ruin any kind of chemistry 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They had a strap match? Oh, ER was the PPV after it so I guess it happened there. I remember nothing.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Sheamus and Mark Henry somehow had a bad match because of that fucking strap


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Strap matches are tricky, when you pull them off right, you end up with absolute classics (Piper/Valentine, Vader/Sting, Eddie/JBL, and HHH/Kane to a lesser extent) but when they are bad? Oh man they are heinous. Hunter/Rocky, Vader/Hogan, Henry/Sheamus, the list goes on for guys who have had stinkers with a strap, chain, or Bullrope. Piper/Valentine might be one of the greatest matches ever, and it's because they said fuck the bullshit lets just beat each other until we can't stand it anymore, then beat on each other some more. Piper said in an interview that he wouldn't do that match again for $1,000,000, it was just too violent and brutal.

You know who could have had an AWESOME strap match? Finlay and Regal.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Strap matches are tricky, when you pull them off right, you end up with absolute classics (Piper/Valentine, Vader/Sting, Eddie/JBL, and HHH/Kane to a lesser extent) but when they are bad? Oh man they are heinous. *Hunter/Rocky,* Vader/Hogan, Henry/Sheamus, the list goes on for guys who have had stinkers with a strap, chain, or Bullrope. Piper/Valentine might be one of the greatest matches ever, and it's because they said fuck the bullshit lets just beat each other until we can't stand it anymore, then beat on each other some more. Piper said in an interview that he wouldn't do that match again for $1,000,000, it was just too violent and brutal.
> 
> You know who could have had an AWESOME strap match? Finlay and Regal.


That match fpalm fpalm fpalm


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Punk/Umaga @ Judgement Day and Jericho/Rey @ The Bash were both great. Especially love Jericho/Rey from The Bash. Watched that quite a few times. 

Haven't watched Jericho/Shelton from Backlash '05. Thought it was a pretty good match. Need to re-watch it.


----------



## Pharmakon (Jan 20, 2014)

Probably the WWE will make strap matches again now that Rusev is on the Main Roster.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RFWHC said:


> Punk/Umaga @ Judgement Day and Jericho/Rey @ The Bash were both great. Especially love Jericho/Rey from The Bash. Watched that quite a few times.
> 
> Haven't watched Jericho/Shelton from Backlash '05. Thought it was a pretty good match. Need to re-watch it.


You won't be disappointed in any way when you re-watch it


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

RFWHC said:


> *Punk/Umaga @ Judgement Day* and Jericho/Rey @ The Bash were both great. Especially love Jericho/Rey from The Bash. Watched that quite a few times.
> 
> Haven't watched Jericho/Shelton from Backlash '05. Thought it was a pretty good match. Need to re-watch it.


No one ever talks about that match, but I think it is great as well.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Jericho/Shelton was very good, as I'd recalled. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Robbie said:


> Seeing as we're somewhat on the subject of Zayn/Cesaro, am I the only one who MUCH prefers the 2/3 falls to their ArRIVAL match? Like... If we're throwing stars at it I'm talking 1/2* difference. Said it as soon as the bout ended @ ArRival that I preferred the 2/3 falls and it stays true to this day.


Well, yeah. I'm the same way too.



SKINS said:


> NO one said they HATED bryan/hhh btw, I just think the other 2 matches were better and have gone back and rewatched them more


Check. and I'll gladly take a sub-par outing from HHH 100x over as long as his opponent is Bryan Danielson to cushion the blow and make something out of it. Which is what went down.



ATF said:


> Not that great to me, tbh. Edge/Hardy is good too imo.


Booooourns; impossible.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk and Umaga had a good match on Smackdown in 2009 as well. They had pretty good chemistry.

YOUMANGAAA! :insertregalsmiley


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just watched Rocky/Foley I Quit from the RR. Man this match never gets old for me. Those chair shots in the end are totally obscene, especially knowing what we know now about brain injuries. But man they are a POWERFUL bit of story telling. And the entire match before that famous finish is just sheer mayhem. Classic Foley brawling, everything with purpose, everything as realistic as possible. You have one of the greatest underdog characters ever in the 1999 Mankind vs a budding MEGA star in Rock. People knew Foley was a bad ass going into this match, but they had no clue how vicious and sadistic Rocky could be. There is no question Rocky was to be taken seriously after this fight. ****1/4

Watching this got me thinking, how much better would the main event of WM 15 have been if they had just stuck with their original plan? The plan was to have a triple threat between Austin, Foley, and Rocky. We never got to see that match up, I believe it would have been a sure fire classic. Apparently HBK screwed everything up by arguing that the main event for WM HAD to be a singles match. Strangely, he wanted it to be an Austin/Foley match, which to me wouldn't make a ton of sense as both were hugely over as baby faces at the time. Not to mention they did a 4-way at the next years mania for the main event so it's not like they were serious about always doing a singles match for Mania. The fact is, Rocky/Austin WM 15 is just not a very god match. I have to believe adding Foley into the equation would have done a lot and atleast guaranteed a great match if not an all time classic. Plus, then Foley wouldn't have been forced to up retire for WM 16, as he would have already main evented a mania. Oh well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Judgment Day 2009 scattered w/those three forgotten _(or remembered for the wrong reasons..)_ or lost gems. :hb @ me getting to put over Cena vs Show again.

Rest of the show is on par w/standard mediocrity, but that's not important.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Robbie said:


> Seeing as we're somewhat on the subject of Zayn/Cesaro, am I the only one who MUCH prefers the 2/3 falls to their ArRIVAL match? Like... If we're throwing stars at it I'm talking 1/2* difference. Said it as soon as the bout ended @ ArRival that I preferred the 2/3 falls and it stays true to this day.


I prefer 2/3 falls as well, but not by much. Both are excellent.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Check. and I'll gladly take a sub-par outing from HHH 100x over as long as his opponent is Bryan Danielson to cushion the blow and make something out of it. Which is what went down.


Nothing sub-par about that HHH performance. Keep your unpopular opinion to yourself and your alternate account.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:duck


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao


"I like Cena/Show JD 09 also but scared to say it as I'd being agreeing w/ my alt's again". Geez I have to do a better job and keeping this a secret, there is a reason my rep is sooo high and I one best..poster :hhh2


I remember there was a Jericho/Rey on that show but idk if that was the one I didnt like or ex or just both :lol


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I wonder if JD '09 is one of the long, boring, bad Cena/Show matches. I have a feeling it might be. Really starting to wonder here...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can't see how anyone wouldn't at least "like" any of the Jericho vs Mysterio matches from 2009. That's just me; I'm a big advocate. As most are too, by the sound of it. Hardly a minority opinion here. Even their TV matches ruled. A constant string of booming magic together that year. Jericho's last full tilt run of being very good.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ATF said:


> Speaking of Extreme Rules, folks are more excited for *Bryan/Kane* or *Shield/Evolution*?


Looking forward to Evolution/Shield more but I have no idea how the match is going to turn out. Could be great, could be good or could be disappointing. I'm more excited for Bryan/Kane now after their segment on Raw than I was before and I'm confident it's going to be good. Unless Evolution/Shield steals the show (I'm keeping my expectations in check for that one) I think the title match is likely to the best thing on the card.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I love their SD Beat the clock and Bash(obviously) just remember there was one ppv match I dont think wasnt great


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Just watched Rocky/Foley I Quit from the RR. Man this match never gets old for me. Those chair shots in the end are totally obscene, especially knowing what we know now about brain injuries. But man they are a POWERFUL bit of story telling. And the entire match before that famous finish is just sheer mayhem. Classic Foley brawling, everything with purpose, everything as realistic as possible. You have one of the greatest underdog characters ever in the 1999 Mankind vs a budding MEGA star in Rock. People knew Foley was a bad ass going into this match, but they had no clue how vicious and sadistic Rocky could be. There is no question Rocky was to be taken seriously after this fight. ****1/4
> 
> Watching this got me thinking, how much better would the main event of WM 15 have been if they had just stuck with their original plan? The plan was to have a triple threat between Austin, Foley, and Rocky. We never got to see that match up, I believe it would have been a sure fire classic. Apparently HBK screwed everything up by arguing that the main event for WM HAD to be a singles match. Strangely, he wanted it to be an Austin/Foley match, which to me wouldn't make a ton of sense as both were hugely over as baby faces at the time. Not to mention they did a 4-way at the next years mania for the main event so it's not like they were serious about always doing a singles match for Mania. The fact is, Rocky/Austin WM 15 is just not a very god match. I have to believe adding Foley into the equation would have done a lot and atleast guaranteed a great match if not an all time classic. Plus, then Foley wouldn't have been forced to up retire for WM 16, as he would have already main evented a mania. Oh well.


Lots of memorable spots in that. "bells will be ringing", Electrical equipment, chair shots, handcuffs.

My favorite was the Corporate Elbow with the chair on Mick's face. Brutal.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Looking forward to Evolution/Shield more but I have no idea how the match is going to turn out. Could be great, could be good or could be disappointing. *I'm more excited for Bryan/Kane now after their segment on Raw* than I was before and I'm confident it's going to be good. Unless Evolution/Shield steals the show (I'm keeping my expectations in check for that one) I think the title match is likely to the best thing on the card.


That segment kada


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Time to rewatch vengeance 05! I remember this show fucking rules.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kane needs to tombstone everyone on the roster in random areas in the building on the next RAW. Too bad that will make WWE look like copycats of their own booking after what went down on Smackdown this week.


----------



## Lennon_ (Mar 10, 2011)

Hey all, I haven't watched much wrestling in the past 2 years or so, was just wondering what recent blu ray releases are worth getting? Started getting back into it around 'Mania, currently watching the CM Punk BITW blu ray having had it sealed on my shelf for the past year.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I can't see how anyone wouldn't at least "like" any of the Jericho vs Mysterio matches from 2009. That's just me; I'm a big advocate. As most are too, by the sound of it. Hardly a minority opinion here. Even their TV matches ruled. A constant string of booming magic together that year. Jericho's last full tilt run of being very good.


What were their TV matches?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Lennon_ said:


> Hey all, I haven't watched much wrestling in the past 2 years or so, was just wondering what recent blu ray releases are worth getting? Started getting back into it around 'Mania, currently watching the CM Punk BITW blu ray having had it sealed on my shelf for the past year.



Dude since you can't get the Network I'd go with the Best of Raw and Smackdown for 2012 and 2013 plus get Extreme Rules 2012 and the Best PPV matches of 2013 set. That should help you catch up on some great stuff for a reasonable price.


What to watch, what to watch.....feeling some classic NWA/WCW tag action. GAB 1989 or 1990....both I think


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> What were their TV matches?


The List


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I love the fact that I have no idea what the fuck was going down in WCW in the mid 90s so since I have the wonderful Network, I can just flip on any PPV I what and it can be glorious or a trainwreck. hahaha. Decided to go with World War 3 '95 tonight. Idk what the fuck's on here but they just announced Benoit vs. Sasaki! Holy shit! Don't spoil anything for me. haha. I was just in the mood for a battle royal/royal rumble.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Something else involving someone close to Sasaki has an even better match than him. :sansa


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Just finished vengeance 05. Fucking awesome as I remember!

Shelton/Carlito. ***
Kane/Edge. ***1/2
HBK/Angle. ****
Cena/Christian/Jericho. ***1/2
Batista/HHH HIAC. ****1/2

IMO Batistas best match in wwe. Everything was good to great here.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Johnny B. Badd & DDP just tore the house down! What the hell!

Cody, I hope that "someone" is Muta. Or Ohtani. I'm excited. 

Vengeance '05 rules. Idk which year I like better, that one or '03...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Most of the Badd vs DDP matches were good. And you're in for a surprise, Corey, haha.

Vengeance 2003 by a good stretch for me. Half of 2005 is bad. I do love Kane vs Edge. Such a blast; captured what they set out to do well.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Someone close to Sasaki. I get it now!


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Just finished vengeance 05. Fucking awesome as I remember!
> 
> Shelton/Carlito. ***
> Kane/Edge. ***1/2
> ...


I think I'll watch that PPV now since you mentioned it. I was looking for a PPV to watch to give me a reason to use the Network more.

Last I remember, Cena/Christian/JeriGOAT was pretty good, and I doubt HBK/Angle was as good as WM but that probably doesn't discredit it.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

It's that match where Angle goes to the top rope just to get superkicked right? :lol


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

> April 18, 2014
> Lone fan doing CM Punk chant turns out to be CM Punk
> 
> CM Punk surreptitiously tried, without success, to start a “CM Punk” chant at a recent WWE house show.
> ...


So golden :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Kayfabenews is The Onion of wrasslin :lol


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Sheamus/Titus on Main Event was worthy of its time, and probably Titus' career showcase up unto this point. He's still clunky, but he can push his moments at all of the right times, and is a great trash talker. I'm still positive he would have gotten over as a face, but he works a short-match heel so wonderfully that I'm not too against his alignment change, anymore. It might just be Sheamus' odd pigmentation, but it appeared as if he still sported remnants of the Barrett Barrage on his left pec. If smashmouthing with big men is going to become a weekly excursion for Sheamus, I openly welcome it.

And, on the other end of the spectrum, Torito had a rematch against Hornswaggle that went five minutes. Why? So the commentators can ham-fist hyperbole and expose how terrible they are, and to allow Hornswaggle to win a meaningless match against a man infinitely more talented than him. I can't figure out why I had faith in WWE signing Mascarita.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Just finished vengeance 05. Fucking awesome as I remember!
> 
> Shelton/Carlito. ***
> Kane/Edge. ***1/2
> ...


I love this show. I have the HIAC higher than you do and HBK/Angle lower, but yeah - I think Batista's best match is considered this or his streak match.

Speaking of which I realised I haven't even seen yet. I think I DLed it a while ago but the quality was really bad so I quit halfway through. THANK GOD FOR THE NETWORK 8*D


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Someone close to Sasaki. I get it now!


:sansa



RAINNMAKAHH said:


> It's that match where Angle goes to the top rope just to get superkicked right? :lol


Of course. :duck

just one of many nonsensical moments that make it one of the worst things in 2005 _(and beyond)_

Bit miffed that show isn't the powerhouse I once considered it to be. Meh. That's standard WWE cards for ya. Or mainstream American, for a better fit.



Rah said:


> Sheamus/Titus on Main Event was worthy of its time, and probably Titus' career showcase up unto this point. He's still clunky, but he can push his moments at all of the right times, and is a great trash talker. I'm still positive he would have gotten over as a face, but he works a short-match heel so wonderfully that I'm not too against his alignment change, anymore. It might just be Sheamus' odd pigmentation, but it appeared as if he still sported remnants of the Barrett Barrage on his left pec. If smashmouthing with big men is going to become a weekly excursion for Sheamus, I openly welcome it.
> 
> And, on the other end of the spectrum, Torito had a rematch against Hornswaggle that went five minutes. Why? So the commentators can ham-fist hyperbole and expose how terrible they are, and to allow Hornswaggle to win a meaningless match against a man infinitely more talented than him. I can't figure out why I had faith in WWE signing Mascarita.


He had a good match vs Sheamus last year on RAW - I think? Or maybe I'm crossing that good performance vs Christian over, but I do not believe there is a lapse - so I was going into it w/some hope of being a fun watch. Getting on it tomorrow. Even the exhibition matches have appeal when I know Sheamus is involved. 

There was a match last year where Titus works vs Justin Gabriel on Main Event and it's well worth a look solely b/c of all the things Titus is shouting during the match. He makes the point to get strict and verbose w/some kid at ringside during the beat down. It's about as top notch as it can sound.

I had zero faith w/Dorada being signed. It appears one of us got placed w/unusual nativity. Glad it wasn't me. :homer3


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

House show match you may enjoy: 

*Hollywood Blondes & Rick Rude vs Ricky Steamboat & Sting & 2 Cold Scorpio (WCW House Show 05.06.1993)*

x1r01p5


----------



## Wagg (Jan 10, 2012)

> - It's now confirmed that Sting will be involved in the WWE DVD and Blu-ray they are releasing on him later this year.
> 
> Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter


good to know that he's going to be involved but the debut should happen first.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

TAKER/STING :mark: :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS said:


> TAKER/STING :mark: :mark:


Im sure some people still think will happen. Me, im still doubting if and when Sting will make a Raw appearance. Great that he will be involved in the DVD of course though and i cant wait for the match listing. Some of these will do:



> Sting/Eddie Gilbert vs The Fantastics (No DQ) (TV 9/30/86)
> Sting/Eddie Gilbert vs The Fantastics (TV 1/6/87)
> Sting/Luger/Windham vs Ric Flair/Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard - Main Event 03.04.1988
> Sting vs Ric Flair - NWA Clash Of The Champions I
> ...


Plus a couple of rarities and/or early Sting stuff.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> TAKER/STING :mark: :mark:



No. Not you too SKINS, say it ain't so brother.

Sting was interviewed for the Warrior doc. It was strange seeing him but I'm glad he's with the WWE. He just shouldn't be wrestling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sitting here patiently to not really be riled up, although probably annoyed to where I'll roll my eyes once they flub up the match listing for the set.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WCW World War III 1995*

*WCW Television Championship
*Johnny B. Badd (c) vs. Diamond Dallas Page - *** 1/2

*Taped Fist Match
*Hacksaw Jim Duggan vs. Big Bubba Rogers - ** 3/4

Cutie Suzuki & Mayumi Ozaki vs. Akira Hokuto & Bull Nakano - ***

*WCW United States Championship
*Kensuke Sasaki (c) vs. Chris Benoit - ***

Lex Luger vs. Randy Savage - * 1/2

Sting vs. Ric Flair - ***

*World War III for the Vacant WCW World Heavyweight Championship
*60-Man 3-Ring Battle Royal - N/R?

- Opener turned out to be MOTN by a good margin. Awesome match where everything clicked. A bunch of tilt-a-whirls from DDP and a bunch of flips & dives from Johnny. Finish came off a bit sudden to me simply because I wasn't aware of what Badd's _actual_ finisher was at the time, but that's the only negative here. Great match with some good nearfalls.

- I've looked over a few other reviews for this show and I'm CLEARLY the biggest fan of the Taped Fist match. Thought it was pretty awesome. I mean, it's a taped fist match. Two guys slugging it out and brawling around all 3 rings. What's not to like about it? Even the Wallstreet interference worked in the end. Good stuff.

- The Japanese ladies came out of nowhere and put on a ridiculous exhibition. I was annoyed by the overall lack of structure, but this was just about showcasing what these 4 could do. I probably would've enjoyed it more if it was setup like an American/Southern style tag match, but that's just me. A pretty nifty spectacle nonetheless.

- Benoit vs. Sasaki was a total change of pace from the last match, but I enjoyed it. It started out slow on the mat and they eventually just started working into a bunch of power/high impact moves. With the way the show ended and how rushed it was, they could've easily given this match another 5 minutes to develop into something great. Unfortunately no one in the crowd cared about this at all.

- Luger vs. Savage. I'm not even sure what this was. Next.

- Sting vs. Flair Volume 18.  Anyone who's seen these two wrestle should know the match could at least be considered fun due to Flair's antics and reactions. Same thing here. Flair runs around all 3 rings like a crazy man, Sting hulks up and puts a whoopin on him in the end. Some so-so selling from Sting with his leg, but it only lasted a minute or two. Fine match.

- World War 3. I commend WCW for just coming up with the insane idea, but nothing even matters until you get down to the final 10 or so and people can actually SEE what's going on. When this happened is when I actually started enjoying the match. Flair's reaction after he was eliminated was hilarious, Eddie Guerrero got a nice showcase near the end, then all of a sudden like 4 guys were dumped out, confusion occurred, and Savage was hesitantly proclaimed the winner despite Hogan clearly going under the bottom rope. This was a fucking horrible ending. HORRIBLE. And why was Yeti even in this match? He was the first dude eliminated. :lol Not a bad show in all honestly, just a really crappy ending.​


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Yeti fpalm


Just watched Cesaro/Zayn ArRival and Cesaro/Cena Raw. Man both held up beautifully, Cesaro/Cena in particular was even better than I remembered. Sami Zayn is a golden wrestling god and we should all feel greatful we get to watch him do his thing. I HIGHLY doubt that ArRival match is getting topped for my personal MotY. Standings so far:

1. Cesaro vs Sami Zayn NXT ArRival ****3/4 (had the 2/3 falls at ****1/2 so I liked this slightly more)
2. The Shield vs Wyatt Family Elimination Chamber ****1/2
3. Cesaro vs John Cena Raw 2/17/14 ****1/4
4. Daniel Bryan vs Triple H WrestleMania 30 ****
5. Daniel Bryan vs Bray Wyatt Royal Rumble 2014 ****


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*Royal Rumble 2011*

_World Heavyweight Championship_
Dolph Ziggler vs. Edge (c) - ****1/2*

_WWE Championship_
Randy Orton vs. The Miz (c) - ****

_WWE Divas Championship_
Eve vs. Layla vs. Natalya (c) vs. Michelle McCool - *LOLWTF*

40-Man Royal Rumble - ***3/4*​
-Coming into the opener, I was worried that the match would not be very good, especially since I couldn't exactly decipher why it was any good the last time I watched it. Well after watching it, it's as simple as this; this match was just total fun. Dolph Ziggler's control segment was focused on Edge's neck, and the match did a great job showcasing his offense. Edge sold very well for Dolph, although that might have been because he was really hurting out there. Although the stipulation was that Edge couldn't use the spear, it felt as if these two guys were trying to tell two stories in the ring. That other story of course was showcasing that Dolph Ziggler was ready to match up with main event talent. Judging by Ziggler's performance and the crowd's reaction towards him, they succeeded.

Now with all the good things named about this match as well as the high rating I gave it, I will admit that there were quite a lot of inherent flaws. They did a good job telling two stories here, but the main story of Edge being restricted from using the spear could have been more emphasized. Edge did some good things to sell the story such as playing to his instincts and teasing spear, wrestling defensively instead of offensively, and using the spear when the ref was down while also pretending to sell once the ref woke up. However, if there was ever a match that called for a wrestler to use moves from their past, this was it. We got the Edgecution and Edgecator, but that pretty much was all Edge did when he had more moves (DOWNWARD SPIRAL) that he could have used. While I don't really mind this, another criticism you can point out for this match was how it turned into MOVEZ. If the match was shorter and they trimmed down some of that, then this could have been avoided.

I guess the best way to describe this match is that if you're a fan of both guys, you will love this. If you're like Cal, you won't. At the end of the day, while the story could have been told better (Michaels/Orton), it makes no sense whatsoever to give a bad rating to a fun match.

-Shockingly enough, I actually kinda remember liking the WWE Title match the last time I watched it. Unfortunately, this match did not hold up one bit. There were a few good things about the match, such as Riley's interference, CM Punk, Orton's comeback, and Orton beating up Miz in the beginning. Other than that though, it was painfully boring. I just couldn't stand Miz in control. Restholds and poor punches galore. It looked like they were going to do something involving Orton's shoulder, but that never manifested. Just really really dull.

-Royal Rumble match was a tale of two halves. First half was phenomenal. Starting with the New Nexus/Corre fight, which then sequenced into PUNK/BRYAN, and then WILLIAM REGAL, and then more and more fun stuff. Oh man, it was so much fun. And then we got the New Nexus working together to eliminate incoming wrestlers, which was really good. Absolutely everything was perfect in the Rumble until HE came :cena2

John Cena coming in to eliminate Nexus was very anti-climatic. The one good thing that it did was lead to a Punk/Cena faceoff that was really fun. Then Hornswoggle came. Then UC. Then it got downright horrible. No passion, no energy. Nothing was going on that was interesting except Ezekiel Jackson eliminating Big Show and Diesel returning. But other than that, nothing was working. I did love seeing the Cena/Orton standoff met with no heat whatsoever. And I guess Santino's elimination was cool. But that's it. Tale of two halves. First half was reaching all-time great Rumble territory, so it outweighs the second for me. But man, this could have been so much better.

I thought this would be a good show in all honesty, but the descent from the opener to the ending left me on a very bad note. It's not a horrible show. It was just decent at best. Not a good way to start 2011, but the Elimination Chamber is next. That should be great if it holds up.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> No. Not you too SKINS, say it ain't so brother.
> 
> Sting was interviewed for the Warrior doc. It was strange seeing him but I'm glad he's with the WWE. He just shouldn't be wrestling.


:lmao Gosh I suck at being sarcastic I guess, hell no I don't want to see that

Havent seen Ziggler/Edge in years, just watched a nifty Ziggler/Ambrose raw 9/16/13 match


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Everything sucks on RR 2011 except for the rumble match.

Sting sucks and I hope he never wrestles in WWE. His DVD will suck in terms of match listings because they'll probably put on shite like Vs Hogan Starrcade 97 instead of Vs Regal GAB 96.

That's all for now...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Buzz Cal-ler never fails to put his insightful remarks on the table :lol INSERTCALSMILEY

Btw, I'll predict your next 2004 review will be No Mercy.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Everything sucks on RR 2011 except for the rumble match.
> 
> Sting sucks and I hope he never wrestles in WWE. His DVD will suck in terms of match listings because they'll probably put on shite like Vs Hogan Starrcade 97 instead of Vs Regal GAB 96.
> 
> That's all for now...


Vs Flair GAB 1990
Vs Vader Starrcade 1992
Vs Vader SuperBrawl III
Vs Vader Slamboree 1994
Vs Regal GAB 1996 (complete Regal carry job)
Vs DDP Nitro 1999

Are pretty much the only Sting matches I actually like watching. There might be 1-2 others but that's the gist of it. I'll get his set just cause the documentary should be good but I highly doubt I'll watch many of the matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vengeance is my next 04 ramble. No idea when I'll start it though. HIAC killed my love of wrestling temporarily, and personal shit is killing my interest in everything for the time being too.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> The Yeti fpalm
> 
> 
> Just watched Cesaro/Zayn ArRival and Cesaro/Cena Raw. Man both held up beautifully, Cesaro/Cena in particular was even better than I remembered. Sami Zayn is a golden wrestling god and we should all feel greatful we get to watch him do his thing. I HIGHLY doubt that ArRival match is getting topped for my personal MotY. Standings so far:
> ...


Yeah, that's what I was thinking too, it's a really really early MOTY if so. Just watched the 2/3 falls again and I still marked - the arRival match I'm probably gonna watch later or something. I genuinely think this is an all time best match for the company purely based off of the fact that I actually managed to get non-wrestling fans into it. Never been able to do that when watching wrestling with people around, ever.



funnyfaces1 said:


> *Royal Rumble 2011*


Yeahhh, Ziggler/Edge is genuinely one of my favourite matches ever and I think I have it higher than you do. Probably because that whole time period on Smackdown was what got me back into wrestling in the first place, just fun upon fun upon fun, and largely b/c of Vickie Guerrero! I don't care what anyone says, she's a GOD.

Plus, you comparing it to Michaels/Orton which is another one of my favourite matches ever, has made me realise I may or may not have a thing for finisher stipulation matches. Anyone wanna do me a definitive list on those??


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

No Mercy 2004 is probably the worse PPV of the year. Not one redeeming factor.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Just finished Jericho/Rock from No Mercy, watched it for the first time.

:banderas


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Rewatched Punk/Ziggler from Raw 11/21/2011, just now, damn good match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> No Mercy 2004 is probably the worse PPV of the year. Not one redeeming factor.


1st) not a single PPV arguably in the DECADE was worse than Armageddon from the same year, you really should rewatch it to have a reminder of how Godawful it was;

2nd) KIDMAN/LONDON. C'mon, how could you not like something that awesome?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So I started thinking about this while driving to work today and almost crashed because I wasn't paying attention but I think it's a cool topic to discuss so.....

If you could make a Wrestlemania card using only matches from 25 through to 30 and only using a performer once, what would your card look like? I chose 25 to 30 because I was thinking about the Mania's I've been to and dreaming up the perfect card over the 5 of them. I wasn't at 29 but I'm including it anyways. GO!

*Icon vs. Icon - Rock vs. Cena (WM28)
Heaven vs. Hell: The Streak - Shawn vs. Taker (WM25)
The Authority vs. The Yes Movement - HHH vs. Bryan (WM30)
WWE Championship - Jericho vs. Punk (WM28)
Midcard Masks - Mysterio vs. Rhodes (WM27)
6 Man Chaos - The Shield vs. Orton, Show, Seamus (WM29)
MITB Match (WM26)
Pre Show Tag Match (WM30)*

And then I get stuck with no Brock, Batista, Edge etc included but ah well, it's still a pretty GOAT looking card imo.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

ATF said:


> 1st) not a single PPV arguably in the DECADE was worse than Armageddon from the same year, you really should rewatch it to have a reminder of how Godawful it was;
> 
> 2nd) KIDMAN/LONDON. C'mon, how could you not like something that awesome?


Thank you, Arnageddon 04 is an abomination.

The pre-show match is MOTTN :agree:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> So I started thinking about this while driving to work today and almost crashed because I wasn't paying attention but I think it's a cool topic to discuss so.....
> 
> If you could make a Wrestlemania card using only matches from 25 through to 30 and only using a performer once, what would your card look like? I chose 25 to 30 because I was thinking about the Mania's I've been to and dreaming up the perfect card over the 5 of them. I wasn't at 29 but I'm including it anyways. GO!
> 
> ...


Interesting... I'll try WM 20-24

Mickie vs. Trish - WM22
Finlay vs. JBL - WM 24
Big Show vs. Floyd Mayweather - WM 24
Christian vs. Chris Jericho - WM 20
Edge vs. Mick Foley - WM 22
Shawn Michaels vs. Mr McMahon - WM 22
Batista vs. The Undertaker - WM 23

:moyes1

WM 21 is really hard done by, it was either Tista/Taker or Orton/Taker, and I couldn't put the 21 MOTN in otherwise there's no Edge/Foley or Jericho/Christian


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

ATF said:


> 1st) not a single PPV arguably in the DECADE was worse than Armageddon from the same year, you really should rewatch it to have a reminder of how Godawful it was;
> 
> 2nd) *KIDMAN/LONDON. C'mon, how could you not like something that awesome?*


Gave it around ***1/4 stars. 

Armageddon 04 was simply average (liked the fatal 4 way, street fight for US title and the opener/didn't think much of the rest), nothing overly terrible like the above.

No Mercy 2004 ratings

Eddie/Reigns (*1/2)
Spike/Nunzio (**)
London/Kidman (***1/4)
RVD & Rey/Rene & Kenzo (** An extra 7 minutes to this match added a lot to this match, prevalent by their Armageddon bout which I gave ***1/4)
Angle/Big Show (*1/2)
Booker/Cena (* These guys have never ever had the smallest spec of connection in the ring, at least Booker (the problem though) and Benoit somewhat lifted the US title in a credibility sense a year later with their gem filled series) 
Taker/JBL (*1/2 This match is literally two spots - Chokeslam thru the table and piledriver on the steps, after drifts back into the bore sector until the ending)


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Gave it around ***1/4 stars.
> 
> Armageddon 04 was simply average (liked the fatal 4 way, street fight for US title and the opener/didn't think much of the rest), nothing overly terrible like the above.
> 
> ...


The No Mercy tag titles match is fantastic, the Armageddon match is sloppy and get's a tad boring in my opinion.

The Last Ride Match :mark: they just beat the crap out of each other and it's excellent.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*No Way Out 2008*

Chavo Guerrero vs. CM Punk
*** 1/4*

MVP vs. Big Daddy V vs. Finlay vs. Batista vs. The Undertaker vs. The Great Khali
**** 3/4 *

Mr Kennedy vs. Ric Flair
*** 1/2*

Edge vs. Rey Mysterio
*****

Randy Orton vs. John Cena
***** 1/4*

JBL vs. Triple H vs. Umaga vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels
******



_- Not good, not bad. Some decent little exchanges, a STIFF roundhouse kick to Chavo and signs that the two men could put on a good match together, this just wasn't it. No harm, no foul and all that... But I'd never recommend it to anybody. Both men did their jobs, kept it simple and a decent-at-best match was the result. Plain and simple.

- This was good, really good. I liked the ongoing back and forth between Taker and Batista that lasted throughout, also obviously continuing their rivalry that conquered 2007, and every time a man entered, he made a lasting impression. I thought Big Daddy V wreaking havoc with his 200 pound titties was all sorts of fun, Khali was okay, Finlay was just Finlay and I actually thought MVP was good for the short while he lasted, throwing some wicked punches and taking a NARSTY bump. However, the nasiest bump MUST go to Finlay. FACK, he ate complete shit with that chokeslam, what a bloke. Finishing stretch between Dave and Taker was dramatic with a really, really cool counter to finish it off. But yeah, top match which is a hell of a lot better than it has any right to be given who was in it.

- A lot better than the shitfest that was MVP/Flair. Kennedy's legwork was simple yet aggressive and effective + him being brash, cocky and arrogant as hell adds points. Flair's selling was on point as well, screaming like he's legit hurt, and biting his fingers to somewhat distract himself from the pain of the figure four was great. The finish kinda' came out of nowhere but I guess it suited the occasion, so it doesn't really bother me. 

- Don't have a clue why this was so short, was Rey legit injured or something? But whatever, for what it was, I loved it and if it had another five or ten minutes with the way it was going, I could easily have seen it being a MOTYC. Rey's selling, much like the match at the Rumble, was unbelievably great, infact it was probably better here. Heel Edge works best when he has a target and he can channel the sadistic, opportunistic side of his character and he did just that. Real shame it didn't last long, but good nonetheless and it's 2 for 2 in terms of good matches between these two, might have to seek out some more if there is any to see if the chemistry remains.

- Okay, either when I watched this a few months ago I really underappreciated it, or this time around I've liked it far too much, because at one point or another I was wrong. This has gone up SO much in my estimation. It's just the two biggest stars throwing bombs at one another to be the WWE Champion, it's as simple as that, yet with the molten crowd and big fight feel, it's just extremely captivating and entertaining. There's very little I can fault with this tbh. Orton's punches were absolutely golden and Cena sold them like he was being hit by a tank. A tank filled with elephants. Morbidly obese elephants. Anyway... I adored this, so much. The time was perfect, not too long and not too short, the exchanged were great and I loved the finish - Both men's reaction to the slap were phenomenal :lmao Awesome stuff.

- Main event = EVEN MORE FUCKING GOODNESS.Jericho and Michaels were the weakest in this match, but they still did more than fine. Umaga and Hardy were on a completely different level though. Umaga's having two periods of dominance really put him over as a beast, as did everyone in the match nailing their finisher on him to eliminate him. And Hardy is just so fucking good man... So good. As soon as he entered, he shined like a MFer. Buzzing around, nailing everybody with all sorts of offence before being pinged round and bumping like a tit for the smallest of things. The finishing stretch between HHH/Hardy was good and at the time, just a sign of things to come between the two. I would have loved for Hardy to have won solely based on his amazing performance as well as the crowd being behind him more than anybody throughout the night. Quality Chamber match.

- All in all, this show rules. Three great matches, a match that didn't live up to potential because of time yet still rocked and two harmless matches that were kept short and sweet. Really good PPV that should be talked about more when talking about good PPVs from this particular era. _



Spoiler: Top Ten WWE PPV Matches of 2008




1. Randy Orton vs. John Cena - No Way Out - **** 1/4
2. Raw Elimination Chamber - No Way Out - ****
3. Edge vs. Rey Mysterio - Royal Rumble - *** 3/4
4. Smackdown Elimination Chamber - No Way Out - *** 3/4
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.​


​


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Last Ride match was so boring. These damn brawls that drag on and on and on. Like Lesnar/Taker at No Mercy 2003. Or Taker/Austin at Backlash 2002. Or most of his matches with Kane. That's Taker at his worst.

No Way Out 2008. Superb.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

You're gonna have a good time with WM24, robbie.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fuck sake lol, is it just me who still really likes Lesnar/Taker from No Mercy 2003 and think its underrated? C'Mon Cal, help me the fuck out here.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Unforgiven 2002 is the one that drags on and on with constant brawling, understandably so as the feud was personal but fuck, mix it up. I liked No Mercy 2003.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

When you take Unforgiven 2002 for what it was (build-up for the Hell in a Cell match), it's actually really good. It reminds me of other great feud advancers such as Taker/Michaels Ground Zero, Punk/Hardy Bash 09, Austin/Foley Unforgiven, and Edge/Hardy SS 05. Of course, feud advancers can also be done poorly such as Orton/Cena in Unforgiven 2007 where those two never really got the opportunity to have a good match. But yeah, initially I used to think the same about Taker/Lesnar from Unforgiven 2002 where it felt like a long, dragged out match with no point, but after that long rest hold in the middle, the match goes freakin' crazy and the ending was perfect.

Cal somehow found something positive in Rock/Taker from No Way Out 2002. I've tried for twelve years, but I've been unable to do so despite how much I love Taker and how good Rock was on PPV in 2002. Seriously though, Rock's 2002 was phenomenal in the ring, but shit everywhere else (including on the mic).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Cal somehow found something positive in Rock/Taker from No Way Out 2002. I've tried for twelve years, but I've been unable to do so despite how much I love Taker and how good Rock was on PPV in 2002. Seriously though, Rock's 2002 was phenomenal in the ring, but shit everywhere else (including on the mic).


Yeah, i so wish that was better too. Rock was indeed great in '02 and Taker was back to his best and getting better that year, so it should have been better than it was, shame they never had that one really good PPV match TBH.

Oh well, we got Taker/Rock/Angle at least. :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

They had a really fun match on the Christmas edition of RAW in 2000. Only went on for about eight minutes, but worth checking out. Shame that for the most part, Taker didn't have good chemistry with either Rock or Austin.

But damn, look at Rock's 2002:

vs. Chris Jericho RR: *****1/4*
vs. Undertaker NWO: ****
vs. Hulk Hogan WM: ******
vs. Angle/Taker Vengeance: *****1/2*
vs. Brock Lesnar SS: *****1/4*

And then you have some real good television matches with Benoit, Guerrero, Angle, and even the nWo. What happened to him after 2002?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I'll need to rewatch Brock/Taker UF if that's the case funnyfaces, Show/Angle/JBL is another good feud forwarder imo, any opinions on the match that happened just prior? believe it was Angle/JBL LMS.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> They had a really fun match on the Christmas edition of RAW in 2000. Only went on for about eight minutes, but worth checking out. Shame that for the most part, Taker didn't have good chemistry with either Rock or Austin.


 They also had a decent match in late 1998.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> They had a really fun match on the Christmas edition of RAW in 2000. Only went on for about eight minutes, but worth checking out. Shame that for the most part, Taker didn't have good chemistry with either Rock or Austin.


 They also had a decent match in late 1998.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I say, i say, They also had a decent match in late 1998.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Was that the KOTR one?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Fuck sake lol, is it just me who still really likes Lesnar/Taker from No Mercy 2003 and think its underrated? C'Mon Cal, help me the fuck out here.



Man I like that match a lot too. Not quite as good as Unforgiven and nowhere near No Mercy 2002, but still pretty damn good all things considered. I gave it ***1/2 on last watch.

Watching Regal/Steamboat FB 1993 on the Network :mark: :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Robbie said:


> *No Way Out 2008*
> 
> Randy Orton vs. John Cena
> ***** 1/4*​


Good to see you appreciating this match now. (Y)



funnyfaces1 said:


> What happened to him after 2002?


He became Hollywood Rock, one of the most entertaining characters ever. Then he had that awesome feud closer with Austin and a fun match with Goldberg.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Some matches I just watched:

Steamboat/Regal FB 93': ****1/2
Bret/Diesel SVS 95': ****3/4
Benoit/Kane BB 04': ****
Vader/Sting GAB 92': ***3/4

Reccomend all of these to any that hasn't seen them yet. Had never seen Vader/Sting GAB until now, man I didn't realize what I was missing. This match was great and would have been even better had Vader not decided to put on the ugliest scorpion death lock as a rest hold for 2-3 minutes. Not quite as good as their Starrcade match, this was still a very physical, heated affair. Vader wins the World Title here and proves he's different than any other super heavyweight to ever step in the ring

Also, watching this Diesel match just reinforces everything I've ever thought about Bret. He's truly in a class all his own when it comes to telling a story in the ring. Every single punch, every single hold, every single move, done to perfection with a clear, concise purpose in mind. If you watch Diesels matches with HBK then watch the ones with Bret you can clearly see the difference in approach these two took to wrestling. HBK is much faster paced, more flashy, more "exciting" if you will. Bret is more methodical, he wants everything to build perfectly, layer upon layer, and it all has to fit in the story he's trying to tell. Not saying one is superior to the other, different strokes for different folks. I just happen to enjoy Bret's style more.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Anyone catch Neville vs. Clay from NXT last week? Pretty sweet sub-10 minute big man/little man match. When these guys have a rematch down the line, it could be somethin serious. Keep on the lookout.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Thoughts on Fall Brawl 1993 as a whole? Starting that now. Flair/Rude makes me :mark: on paper.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I watched Vengeance 2005 this morning. Pretty good show. I could've done without Christy Hemme vs. Victoria and that awful Viscera/Lillian Garcia/Godfather segment but other than that, I enjoyed it. I'm pretty sure I've seen it before, as a lot of parts of the matches I remember watching on DVD or something like 8-7 years ago.

HBK/Angle is match of the night (so far) for me and Cena/Christian/Jericho is second. I'm sure Batista/HHH was great but I was too tired to continue watching, and I didn't really have any desire to watch it so I'll check it out later tonight.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Flair/Rude is wildly disappointing IIRC. Steamboat/Regal is very good but, honestly I think it's overrated. IMO their ten minute sprint on TV a week later is better. Scorpio in 1993 is always win. Nastys/Arn & Roma I think was good but could have used some fat trimmed. That's how I'm remembering it from a long time ago, anyway.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Trimming the fat is an expression you can use for a good bit of WCW tags when you think about it. Even some of the pretty good ones, unfortunately. Like Hollywood Blondes vs Arn & Roma off the top of my head. And then there is garbage like Pillman/Zenk vs Freebirds WrestleWar '90 where after 24 minutes all you liked was a great punch by Hayes. AND then.. a worse pile in 1996 w/Sting & Booker vs Road Warriors. WHY CAN'T IT ALWAYS BE LIKE 1992 or ANYTHING W/MIDNIGHT EXPRESS?

There are still a great amount of tags within the company. Duh. This is just the other side of the coin.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought we agreed never to speak of that Sting/Booker vs. Road Warriors match ever again. But since you opened Pandora's box, I had to do this.




KONNAN!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FUCK

You want to know something ironic behind that? Steiners vs Morrus & Konnan from Slamboree '97 - not a bad match. Inclined to say it's the only Konnan match in WCW I don't want to claw my eyes out at. It was mostly Steiners on offense and Morrus being the capable foil rather than Konnan doing much, but hey, that's how you meet him w/success.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

There was a good WCW lucha trio w/ Konnan from 1997, I think. SuperBrawl?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's from SuperBrawl 1997, yeah. But I sure as hell wouldn't call it good. _(it sucks)_ Best part of the match is Ciclope's epic botch.

Wanted to see if it was posted online. It isn't. Found this instead tho:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Flair/Rude is wildly disappointing IIRC. Steamboat/Regal is very good but, honestly I think it's overrated. IMO their ten minute sprint on TV a week later is better. Scorpio in 1993 is always win. Nastys/Arn & Roma I think was good but could have used some fat trimmed. That's how I'm remembering it from a long time ago, anyway.



Yep I seem to remember Flair/Rude being pretty flat as well. Same with Rude/Steamboat SBII. That SB match was good, don't get me wrong, it's just nowhere near what those two are capable of and I really had high hopes for it going into the show.

Don't see how Regal/Steamer FB is overrated. I really could find little to no faults with it. Pacing was great, Regal's character work was off the charts awesome, laying in all those vicious strikes and brutal submissions. Steamboat sold well and had great fire in his come back. Regal was great attacking the ribs too. Loved how it started out as a brawl, transitioned back into a normal wrestling affair, then escalated back into a brawl. Don't see that very often. To me it's everything a Regal and Steamboat match should be, and more. Probably one of my 15 or so favorite matches in WCW.

Scorpio in 1993? I seem to recall him having an awesome match with Benoit on a PPV in that year....any idea which match I'm thinking of? I watched it not too long ago, want to say it either ends in a time limit draw or someone wins in the last second before the time is up.

You know what you or Hayley could do that would be really awesome? Give me La Parkas 2 or 3 best PPV matches in WCW. I want to check him out, never actually seen one of his matches. Or if you have a link to a better one that's not on PPV, I'm all for it


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That Scorpio/Benoit match is from Superbrawl '93. Scorpio wins at the very last second. Awesome match, pretty sure it's on Hard Knocks. 

Check out the Lucha 6-man from Bash at the Beach '97. One of my childhood favorites.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, it's on the Benoit DVD set. And the six man from BATB '97, now that's where it is at. And it has a comical botch in it too; this time from Villano IV. Tears roll down my face.

Also wanted to add while the SuperBrawl '97 six man isn't any good, the La Parka & Super Calo interactions in it are FABULOUS. So, there's a silver lining in what is an otherwise disappointing match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> That Scorpio/Benoit match is from Superbrawl '93. Scorpio wins at the very last second. Awesome match, pretty sure it's on Hard Knocks.
> 
> Check out the Lucha 6-man from Bash at the Beach '97. One of my childhood favorites.


(Y) thanks bro will do.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Yeah, it's on the Benoit DVD set. And the six man from BATB '97, now that's where it is at. And it has a comical botch in it too; this time from Villano IV. Tears roll down my face.
> 
> Also wanted to add while the SuperBrawl '97 six man isn't any good, the La Parka & Super Calo interactions in it are FABULOUS. So, there's a silver lining in what is an otherwise disappointing match.


It's on the Benoit set? Hmm. Don't remember it to be honest as the first time I saw it was when I watched the entire event on the Network. Damn I'm lame, had that set for over a year and never saw that awesome match.

Speaking of that set, doesn't Cal hate the Snow match from ECW in 1994? Blasphemy, that's what that is.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Don't see how Regal/Steamer FB is overrated. I really could find little to no faults with it. Pacing was great, Regal's character work was off the charts awesome, laying in all those vicious strikes and brutal submissions. Steamboat sold well and had great fire in his come back. Regal was great attacking the ribs too. Loved how it started out as a brawl, transitioned back into a normal wrestling affair, then escalated back into a brawl. Don't see that very often. To me it's everything a Regal and Steamboat match should be, and more. Probably one of my 15 or so favorite matches in WCW.


Thought it was kind of flat...ish, somewhere. Like, the work was good but I wasn't captivated the way I would be in a match I think is actually GREAT. Just FTR I'm talking strictly about a PORTION of the match and not the entire match itself. Most of it is pretty great, but I'm more on the "***1/2 - maybe ***3/4" side of it than the "****1/2" side of it which most people seem to be. I guess overrated was poor choice of word.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You know what you or Hayley could do that would be really awesome? Give me La Parkas 2 or 3 best PPV matches in WCW. I want to check him out, never actually seen one of his matches. Or if you have a link to a better one that's not on PPV, I'm all for it


-Parka/Psicosis/Villano IV v. Juvi JUICE/Garza/Hijo del Lizmark (BATB 97)
-Parka/Psicosis/Silver King/el motherfuckin Dandy v. Juvi JUICE/Chavo "he's actually good fuck you" Guerrero Jr/Calo/Hijo del Lizmark (Souled Out 98)
-Parka v. Psicosis (Spring Stampede 98) - this has like zero crowd reaction but is an awesome seven minutes. 


I remember liking the one from SuperBrawl 97. Cody hates it, it seems. IDK, watch it either way, it has Park. Other than the match w/ Disco Inferno I have no recollection of, the junkyard brawl in 1999, and the World War 3s, that's like all of Parka's WCW PPV appearances. 



Jack Evans 187 said:


> That Scorpio/Benoit match is from Superbrawl '93. Scorpio wins at the very last second.


WCW lied to you. The actual match is like 18:30 or something. 

Scorpio's 93 >>>> HHH's 2000. Felt like I hadn't taken a jab at Helmsley for a while.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Has hell frozen over? I agree with every word Yeah1993 said. To add to the La Parka recs, this must be witnessed by all of us:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Rumors of a Ric Flair return on Monday's Raw and WWE being interested in signing Shelley and Sabin. :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WWE needs to bring back the light heavyweight/cruiserweight division. Far too many guys not being used who can just be randomly thrown into this category to fill time in much better ways on PPV (a la WCW style). Justin Gabriel, Sin Cara, Tyson Kidd, Sami Zayn, Los Matadores, Kofi (yes I said Kofi), Evan Bourne is he ever returns, Xavier Woods, Yoshi Tatsu, or even Rollins or Mysterio if he ever wrestles again. 

-----------------------

Did everyone hear about the big NXT announcement yet? Another live special coming on May 29th. *NXT Takeover*. Really looking forward to it. Some matches have already been set in place due to the NXT Tapings. Here they are:



Spoiler: NXT Takeover card:



 *NXT Title Match:* Adrian Neville (c) vs. Tyson Kidd
*NXT Women's Title Match:* Natalya vs. Charlotte
*#1 Contender's Match:* Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze

I'm not quite sure if it'll come anywhere close to Arrival in terms of quality, but those are 3 good matches to start. I would've rather seen the Neville/Clay blowoff on here but they went No DQ for it on the first tapings so that outta be a doozy. Natalya/Charlotte should be good and Zayn/Breeze has plenty of potential, but I think it would've been better with some kind of stipulation match between Graves and Zayn to settle their thing. Oh well.​



​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Thought it was kind of flat...ish, somewhere. Like, the work was good but I wasn't captivated the way I would be in a match I think is actually GREAT. Just FTR I'm talking strictly about a PORTION of the match and not the entire match itself. Most of it is pretty great, but I'm more on the "***1/2 - maybe ***3/4" side of it than the "****1/2" side of it which most people seem to be. I guess overrated was poor choice of word.
> 
> 
> I remember liking the one from SuperBrawl 97. Cody hates it, it seems. IDK, watch it either way, it has Park. Other than the match w/ Disco Inferno I have no recollection of, the junkyard brawl in 1999, and the World War 3s, that's like all of Parka's WCW PPV appearances. [/COLOR]


No, there isn't any hate, but it's a poor match filled w/poor spots on the majority. Like I said, the only guys who made anything stand out - and be awesome - were Parka & Calo.

btw, Jheri's write up on Steamboat/Regal fits my thoughts on Danielson vs Triple H to a tee. 100% exactly that, despite the notion I feel all the good stuff came from Danielson solely. Or better to say, he made everything gel. You know, the usual Danielson curve when working vs ANYBODY. Only bringing it up as that's a way I could have worded it to fit. Maybe I really should just use star ratings again so people can see it and then move on. You'd think words would be simpler.



Saint Dick said:


> WWE being interested in signing Shelley and Sabin. :mark:


WHAT



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Did everyone hear about the big NXT announcement yet? Another live special coming on May 29th. *NXT Takeover*. Really looking forward to it. Some matches have already been set in place due to the NXT Tapings. Here they are:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol'ed at the championship matches. Third match is :homer3 even if the lad I'm clearly pulling for doesn't quite get the nudge just yet. IN DUE TIME. Seeing the heel in the mix puts a smile on my face as an appropriate other decision.

-----------

Sheamus vs Titus O'Neil on NXT this week was AWESOME, tbhayley. Everyone needs to watch it. Career best for Titus yet. Ended up watching a decent mess of everything else Titus has done this year. Including matches vs Kofi & Langston, so I was content in seeing what he'd produce vs any kind of talent - high and low. Surprisingly the Kofi one was worked better _(even though Kofi botches his own spot at the end and hurts himself. I feel like that adds a million stars to it though)_ only on the principle of Kofi being a better target for Titus's offense. Getting to throw him around and such. Neither match was good. Nor really deserve much of the time of day, but Titus is onto something. That's my point here. Langston is green & I dislike him, but that match really should have been BEEF personified. Langston has got a decent offensive list - which is worthy to mention since some guys on the roster lack any bit of actual decent offense. Another trait that boggles my mind. - but none of it really comes together to where he's smashing fools and I don't understand it. Titus does that area well; which is why I had a little hope for something fun. It was forgettable. Titus crushes Zack Ryder on Superstars before both of these matches and that one is good. So, check that out if you care. I dunno. I'm randomly going off here b/c I like Titus. It only proves to me why I actually kind of care whenever Ryder is put in a position to job, b/c look, it ends up being the best of the bunch. This started out praising Sheamus too. That's general talk. Sheamus is fecking godly. WATCH THEIR MATCH from this week.

A cruiserweight division is about as useless of a topic these days as people claiming the Divas should matter or something else that is way out of left field and you know won't happen ever again. They don't even know how to book the championships they currently have well. And why do we want that championship back? So it can be defended on the C & D list shows w/o any potential chance for anything good? So many cruiserweight matches in WWE aren't even good if you go back and look. They're rushed four minute matches w/a bunch of flashy moves that mean nothing and were ugh. Definite exceptions out there, but seriously, the pool wasn't special. Can't see how it would change this time around. Especially when the talent is inferior to the bunch they had in the past. We're losing Tajiri & Noble for guys like Tyson Kidd or Los Matadores. No thanks. Not to mention there are like NO heels for that projected field other than...Tyler Breeze from NXT.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Corey Graves needs to be on that NXT card. I want to see more of him.

Would like to check out that Sheamus/Titus match. Hopefully it pops up somewhere soon. Don't really feel like downloading the full show.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Enjoy


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

(Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ignore the screenshot. Ha. _(I skipped it)_


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The trauma


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One upload one may enjoy: 

*Midnight Express vs Ric Flair & Barry Windham (WCW Clash Of the Champions 4 - 12.07.1988)*

x1r89tj


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MIDNIGHTS


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh God. Now there's a thread bashing Bray Wyatt on the Raw section. IWC really can't find anything else to pimp, can they?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Oh God. Now there's a thread bashing Bray Wyatt on the Raw section. IWC really can't find anything else to pimp, can they?


Thought that was a hideous troll attempt tbh.

Couple more COTC uploads going to be posted here soon. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Zeppers- if you have Austin/Steamboat COTC I will love you long, long time. 

P.s. Danielson/KENTA rocked my world. Thanks again for the upload it's one of the better matches I've ever seen.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Zeppers- if you have Austin/Steamboat COTC I will love you long, long time.
> 
> P.s. Danielson/KENTA rocked my world. Thanks again for the upload it's one of the better matches I've ever seen.


No worries, ill try and sort it tonight.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Austin/Steamboat is on the Clash DVD on netflix if you have it



And guess what, I share the same sentiment on Bryan/HHH as my alt :lelbron, gonna rewatch it later today


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Couple more COTC Uploads:

*Brian Pillman & Jushin Liger vs Chris Benoit & Beef Wellington (WCW Clash Of The Champions 19 - 06.16.1992)*

x1r9i2q

*Ric Flair & Arn Anderson vs The Hollywood Blondes (WCW Clash Of The Champions 23 - 06.16.1993)*

NWA and WCW World Tag Team Title Match (Best 2 Out of 3 Falls)

x1rapkg


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

> Thought it was kind of flat...ish, somewhere. Like, the work was good but I wasn't captivated the way I would be in a match I think is actually GREAT. Just FTR I'm talking strictly about a PORTION of the match and not the entire match itself. Most of it is pretty great, but I'm more on the "***1/2 - maybe ***3/4" side of it than the "****1/2" side of it which most people seem to be. I guess overrated was poor choice of word.


I agree with this. Maybe I can't appreciate a long mat wrestling fest, but I didn't love this. Decent, but wouldn't throw **** at it. 

(Ignoring your Helmsley jab :HHH)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Austin/Steamboat is on the Clash DVD on netflix if you have it
> 
> 
> 
> And guess what, I share the same sentiment on Bryan/HHH as my alt :lelbron, gonna rewatch it later today



That set is still on Netflix? I thought they took it down a while ago.....if it's on there I shall watch it now. Thanks 

Edit: it's still on there thank you


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well that saves me some time lol.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I finally watched Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn from NXT ArRIVAL once again. Fantastic match, I still consider it to be one of the best matches of the year.

I could ramble over the spots and the near-falls all day but one of my favorite things about the match was how Cesaro made Sami Zayn look like the biggest under-dog/baby face ever. I mean, that 1 count at the end where Zayn suddenly got so much energy to kick out and keep the match alive. Just awesome. :banderas

That match is just too good.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

They put commercials during a Heyman promo on Raw? fpalm


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The main article on WWE.com has "fantasy warfare" with Undertaker vs. Sting. Are they just teasing us or is it foreshadowing something??? Time will tell. 

WWE Network needs to put up all the Saturday's Night Main Events and Clash of the Champions. Shit would be so legit.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Can't for the life of me understand why Flair/Steamboat from COTC isn't on that DVD they released. They could have probably subbed out any other match (or two) on that set to get it in. On top of that, Clash of the Champions is one of the only PPVs not on the Network. I'm resisting watching it on Youtube, but I really want to see that match, as it's the only one of their trio of matches I haven't seen.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well it's on about 4 other damn dvds and lasts nearly an hour which takes time away from other matches that haven't been released, so honestly it was GOOD they gave it a miss on that set .


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

What other sets is it on?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ultimate Ric Flair Collection
Ricky Steamboat: The Life of a Dragon

I'm sure there's more, but yeah it didn't need to put on that COTC set and recycled like so many other WCW matches have been. Clashes weren't PPVs either btw, they were just TV specials which explains why they're not on the network.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Ah, thanks. There are other specials on the Network though, so maybe they're working towards getting it up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm sure they were planning to add them not long after the original week trial, as sort of a way to keep people paying. Fuck knows what happened to that .


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I'm sure that COTC and SNME are going to go up but they want to keep content going up regularly. It's going to be years before we see the full version of WWEN.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I am pretty sure that nitros will start going up this summer when the MNW show starts, which is awesome. Also the ECW TV's are nearing the point where they drop the NWA banner, which is when the promotion starts getting really good imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SMITTY said:


> Also the ECW TV's are nearing the point where they drop the NWA banner, which is when the promotion starts getting really good imo.


ECW was under the NWA banner until 2009? 8*D


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

How did I know that you would come back with some remark like that 

Just looked it up, looks like they put up some episodes where it is now Extreme Championship wrestling, so I might start giving some of them a watch


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Did a little comparison:

Wrestlemania VI DVD (2005)















The Ultimate Collection


I'm proud to let you guys know the latest release of The Ultimate Challenge shows the match in its entirety since the Coliseum Home Video release. For some reason on every release since then, they always faded out early before Warrior grabs the title and shakes his arm back and forth in excitement on the arena screen.

- Vic


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Okay, can we talk about Finlay/JBL WM24 and how it's the living definition of sleeper MOTYC? Just wrote this for the "Last Wrestling Match Watched" thread, would love to see someone else love it as much as I do.

*Wrestlemania 24*
Belfast Braw;
_Finlay vs. JBL_

&&&& 1/4

This fucking match man. I knew I loved it but not this much, just so much fun, juicy goodness, it's impossible to dislike. They just beat the ever loving piss out of each other for the simple fact that they can. Weapons are used in a very fun way, Finlay is an absolute lunatic for the things he does and takes from Bradshaw (nastiest Suicide dive headshot ala Benoit ever, disgusting drop to the floor), the crowd are in to it, JR is great on commentary and the Hornswoggle interactions actually add to the match - JBL throwing a trash can over the top rope at him is one of the greatest things this world has ever seen. FINLAY. JBL. YES. Going to watch the rest of WM 24 as a part of my 08 project but I wouldn't be surprised if this is MOTN.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle 9/4/2003 (****1/2 Why is it that I've never watched this match? Holy shit, what a beauty)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Its not, :hbk vs :flair2 = *****


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

SKINS said:


> Its not, :hbk vs :flair2 = *****


:homer3


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Finlay/JBL ruled. Just do happened that five other matches ruled more that night. Such is 2008.

Smackdown was astounding. If you don't watch this week's episode, then you're not a wrestling fan.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Thinking about it, Bradshaw/JBL marathon could be all sorts of fun. APA tags, 4 minute singles matches vs the likes of Test, Albert, Rhyno and other attitude era hard hitters, and I'm sure there's a boatload of good TV matches as the JBL persona. One of the best things WOOLCOCK ever did (other than introduce me to WOS) was find and pimp Regal/JBL Smackdown 06 in England. One of both men's best, IMO, and JBL cuts one of the most hilarious promos I've ever seen before the match. Gonna rewatch it now, as a matter of fact.

Does he have any good matches before say 99/2000?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Bradshaw has a tag match with Barry Windham in Japan when they were known as the New Blackjacks or somethin like that vs. Kenta Kobashi & Johnny Ace that's pretty good. I think it's in '97 AJPW.

He had a match against Vader at IYH: Break Down but I don't remember it at all.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vader/Bradshaw match is all kinds of awesome. I'm a huge fan of short random APA matches from like 2000 too. Just 2 big buys crushing everyone in their path. So much fun.

JBL/Finlay is a great match, but MOTN at WM 24? Nah.

And is that another high rating I see for Angle/Taker SD 03? :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fit/JBL or Show/Mayweather is my MOTN for that show. Not the biggest fan of that WM, but yeah, the Belfast brawl is pretty awesome. Though probably like Finlay's 8th best match of 2008. How fucking good was that guy!?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cesaro/Swagger from SD tonight is worth a watch btw. First bit of wrestling I've watched since that HIAC .

FINLAY :mark:. Was he still on SD in 08 before moving to ECW?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just watched the ECW TV episode where Shane Douglas cuts that GODLY promo where he throws the NWA belt to the ground, just fucking awesome :mark:


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Vader/Bradshaw match is all kinds of awesome. I'm a huge fan of short random APA matches from like 2000 too. Just 2 big buys crushing everyone in their path. So much fun.
> 
> JBL/Finlay is a great match, but MOTN at WM 24? Nah.
> 
> *And is that another high rating I see for Angle/Taker SD 03? :mark:*


I've never watch the match before. Going into it, I was expecting a gem at the ***+ range, but I was completely overwhelmed with the awesomeness in which I got, the pacing and transitioning are specifically astounding and it's on par with the NWO bout for me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I preferred Shane in a tag with Steamboat. Also don't think his promo where he throws down the NWA belt is godly or anything. Important for ECW? Totally. A good promo? Meh. He just lists a bunch of champions and tells them to kiss his ass and that he's the extreme champion or whatever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> I've never watch the match before. Going into it, I was expecting a gem at the ***+ range, but I was completely overwhelmed with the awesomeness in which I got, the pacing and transitioning are specifically astounding and it's on par with the NWO bout for me.


If the match had a proper finish I'd likely have gone the full *****. Best WWE TV match ever imo and their best match together too, just ahead of NWO.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Smackdown was astounding. If you don't watch this week's episode, then you're not a wrestling fan.


Just watched Shield put Fandango through the tables and exit the video. cba with anything else because no Evolution = no interest for me.

I might check out Swagger/Cesaro at some point down the line. Whenever that'll be.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Ok maybe I exaggerated it a bit, but I still think its a good promo just because of its importance to the wrestling industry, it created ECW which even a hater like yourself must admit revolutionized the business. There is no Attitude era without ECW.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You... you are aware I don't care for the majority of the AE, right? 

I'm a WRESTLING FAN. The AE took WRESTLING away from me for a few years. ECW and Vince Russo did that. I HATE THEM FOR THAT.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm not a huge fan of the AE as well, I was just making the point because it was a huge boom for the business and it was the reason that the industry is still somewhat relevant today.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> FINLAY :mark:. Was he still on SD in 08 before moving to ECW?


Got moved over in the draft mid-year, I think. Took what was supposed to be Benoit's place as "vet who the young guys should learn from".


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> Got moved over in the draft mid-year, I think. Took what was supposed to be Benoit's place as "vet who the young guys should learn from".


Shame they took a year to move him to replace Benoit then lol... ECW 07 might have been better .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit should have never been moved to that worthless brand in the first place. Maybe if they treated him with the respect he deserves, he would've still been here.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Sup guys, long time no talk. I don't know why but for some reason I'm just not on as much as I used to be. Anyway, I'm looking for some old school 80s matches that's not Flair/Steamboat. Anything would do really as long as it's from the 80s and really good. 

Also, how badass was The Shield on SD? Damn, I hope they go another 2 years. I got really scared when they were teasing the breakup a few months back. 

Nice to see the love for Angle/Taker. Haven't seen it in about 4 years but the whole match is all kinds of awesome. Another underappreciated gem is Taker/Cena from Vengeance. I have it at ****. It's, imo, the match that put Cena on the radar.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I have the Angle/Taker match from SD 2003 at ****3/4, I was shocked the first time I watched it that it was on free TV.

Also, anything on Smackdown worth catching tonight? Does Cesaro continue his streak as Global WOTY for this year? And is the Shield match worth it?

Also, I'm not the only one that thinks Cesaro is a pretty unanimous decision for WOTY anywhere at this point in the year, right?


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Also, how badass was The Shield on SD? Damn, I hope they go another 2 years. I got really scared when they were teasing the breakup a few months back.


"TWO MORE YEARS! TWO MORE YEARS!"

Seriously, The Shield is awesome. Though it's more likely that their going to split around Summerslam, I do hope they go on for a bit longer. They're legit my favorite of all time.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Sup guys, long time no talk. I don't know why but for some reason I'm just not on as much as I used to be. Anyway, I'm looking for some old school 80s matches that's not Flair/Steamboat. Anything would do really as long as it's from the 80s and really good.


A few of my personal favorites:

Ric Flair vs. Lex Luger (Starrcade '88)
The Fantastics vs. The Midnight Express (Great American Bash '88)
Ghetto Street Fight: Junkyard Dog vs. Butch Reed (Mid-South 6/16/84)
Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect (Maple Leaf Gardens 4/23/89)
Alley Fight: Sgt. Slaughter vs. Pat Patterson (MSG 4/21/81)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I've tried so hard to find that Ghetto Street Fight, but it was to no avail. What I did find was a couple other matches between Butch Reed and Junkyard Dog, but those matches made me question why I watch wrestling. Pathetic attempts at wrestling from both men in their Clash match. Even UC at his worst was better both of them that night.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> A few of my personal favorites:
> 
> Ric Flair vs. Lex Luger (Starrcade '88)
> The Fantastics vs. The Midnight Express (Great American Bash '88)
> ...


Also, must watch matches from the 80's:

Slaughter/Iron Sheik Boot Camp Match MSG 1984
Piper vs Valentine Dog Collar Match Starrcade 1983
Terry Funk vs Jerry Lawler No DQ Memphis 1981
Backlund vs Patera Texas Death Match MSG 1980
Terry Funk vs Ric Flair Great American Bash 1989
Jim Duggan vs Buzz Sawyer No DQ Mid South 1985
Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat WM 3 1987
Hart Foundation vs Killer Bees MSG 1985
Hart Foundation vs British Bulldogs MSG 1986
Ricky Steamboat vs Bret Hart Boston Garden 1987
Arn/Ole vs Rock n Roll Express Starrcade 1986
Ric Flair vs Wahoo McDaniels 2/3 Falls BotB 1985
Ric Flair vs Barry Windham BotB 1986


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

That WWE's best talker list got me looking at more Flair promos. This is amazing :lmao "Assume the position, fat boy." :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I always like to say Mick Foley is the best promo man in the history of wrestling, when really what I mean is that he is my favorite. Ric Flair is definitely the best when it comes to talking people into a building. Flair was so great he survived nearly a decade as champ with very few clean wins. He could either lose by DQ, do a time limit draw, or win by shady means, and still be just as credible as ever the next time he came to that town because he would talk such a great game. He was comical without ever being disingenuous. And if anyone has ever seen a Ric Flair interview on a podcast or shoot tape, you'll see those promos are pretty much the real Nature Boy. If I could spend a night kicking it and partying with any wrestler in their prime, I'd pick Ric no question. He's the man, and he always will be.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Watchng 1999 WCW and Flair as the Pres was the main highlight for me.
Hogan/Flair at SuperBrawl'99 was actually pretty good while the cruiserweight dvision took a step back imo.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ric Flair doesn't make my top ten list of best talkers.

First half of Superbrawl 9 is good stuff. Second half is straight duds.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eulonzo said:


> I finally watched Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn from NXT ArRIVAL once again. Fantastic match, I still consider it to be one of the best matches of the year.
> 
> I could ramble over the spots and the near-falls all day but one of my favorite things about the match was how Cesaro made Sami Zayn look like the biggest under-dog/baby face ever. I mean, that 1 count at the end where Zayn suddenly got so much energy to kick out and keep the match alive. Just awesome. :banderas
> 
> That match is just too good.


That wasn't Cesaro making anything. Zayn has had that in him for over a decade now. Man is the definitive babyface out there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I've tried so hard to find that Ghetto Street Fight, but it was to no avail.


*Ghetto Street Fight: Junkyard Dog vs. Butch Reed (Mid-South 06/16/84*

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5xLe2yKgWx26p7dmtL (Private)

Further upload:

*The Steiner Brothers vs The Quebecers (WWF Raw 13.09.1993)*

x1ri30v


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Watched Smackdown thanks to the hype that was given to it, and boy it delievered.

Marked the hell out for the Zeb/Heyman promo-off. And immediatly after, Cesaro/Swagger was really good, maybe ***1/2 for it. I hope it wasn't the blow-off of the feud, Cesaro still hasn't swung Zeb yet, and considering the rumor of Cesaro/Swagger/RVD for Extreme Rules, we'll see.

Same rating (or maybe higher) goes for the MOTN in Shield/Heels, which featured yet another badass FIP by Ambrose, and just the general chaos and awesomeness of Shield matches. Ryback had one of his finest performances there for what I can remember too tbh, to the point where I'd even say he was the MVP of his team. The Shield stuff in general (and there was A LOT of it) ruled. The Fandango spot = :mark: (Poor Fandango though.) Oh, and bonus marks for BARRETT being the only one to escape the Shield 8*D

The rest was fine for what it was. Natalya/Tamina was alright I guess, so was Jey/Axel and Wyatts/Rhodes. Speaking of the latter, Bray Wyatt delievered one of his best promos yet. Still, I'm not less wary of the booking for Cena/Wyatt II come ER - especially after what was gonna happen on the 3 On 1 on Raw.

All in all, easily the best SD of the year thus far imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Been looking into Raw and Nitro ratings, for the highest and lowest rated shows of each for a little project I wanna do. Came up with this:

BEST
Nitro - 8/31/98 6.0
Raw - 5/10/99 8.1

WORST
Nitro - 12/11/00 1.7
Raw - 12/23/96 1.5

Anyone else know different? Wanna make sure I have the right shows for the ratings lol .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Kurt Angle vs Steve Austin - WWF Raw 27.11.2000*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Been looking into Raw and Nitro ratings, for the highest and lowest rated shows of each for a little project I wanna do. Came up with this:
> 
> BEST
> Nitro - 8/31/98 6.0
> ...


Am I right by saying the highest rated Nitro ever was Goldberg/Hogan and the highest rated Raw ever was the "This is Your Life" segment between Foley and Rocky? Thought I remember reading that somewhere.

Zep- Bless you sir. Never seen this before and I was just searching for something new to watch


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Am I right by saying the highest rated Nitro ever was Goldberg/Hogan and the highest rated Raw ever was the "This is Your Life" segment between Foley and Rocky? Thought I remember reading that somewhere.
> 
> Zep- Bless you sir. Never seen this before and I was just searching for something new to watch


Not sure about the Nitro, but as far as Raw, the "this if your life" was the highest rated SEGMENT, not overall show. Probably the same for Goldberg/Hogan.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Jesus, I just watched Edge/Cena TLC and Jay Briscoe/Cole Ladder War back-to-back. I think I'm starting to hate Ladder matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You just hate the BAD ladder matches. Nothing wrong with that. Go watch Benoit/Jericho or TLC III . Or both. Yey both.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't give a fuck how bad the match is I want to see Sting have at least one match in WWE. It should be against Taker or HHH but fuck I don't even care if it's against :axel 



The Hitman said:


> Match upload time:
> 
> *Hulk Hogan vs Randy Savage - Boston Garden, Boston - 05.24.1986*
> 
> ...


Fun match. 

I love this doc. I have watched it probably 6-7 times. My 3rd fave WWE doc behind Punk and Foley. 



The Hitman said:


> Ultimate Warrior vs Ric flair:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good times. If the E releases the Warrior doc with a few matches I will buy it. 



William Murderface said:


> What do you guys think of Punk/Umaga from Judgment Day?
> 
> I just watched it again and I thought it was pretty excellent.


Very underrated. Really loved me some Umaga. 





The Hitman said:


> Im sure some people still think will happen. Me, im still doubting if and when Sting will make a Raw appearance. Great that he will be involved in the DVD of course though and i cant wait for the match listing. Some of these will do:
> 
> 
> 
> Plus a couple of rarities and/or early Sting stuff.


Very happy about a Sting set finally. :mark:



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Sting should face Taker at Wrestlemania 31 and make him tap to the scorpion death lock.


Fixed it for you. 



RFWHC said:


> Rewatched Punk/Ziggler from Raw 11/21/2011, just now, damn good match.


Really loved it for some reason. Wish their match at Rumble a few weeks later was this good. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> But damn, look at Rock's 2002:
> 
> vs. Chris Jericho RR: *****1/4*
> vs. Undertaker NWO: ****
> ...


But I thought we are not allowed to enjoy the Rock as members of the IWC? 



Saint Dick said:


> Rumors of a Ric Flair return on Monday's Raw and WWE being interested in signing Shelley and Sabin. :mark:


YES YES YES to all of that. 



ATF said:


> Oh God. Now there's a thread bashing Bray Wyatt on the Raw section. IWC really can't find anything else to pimp, can they?


Some people just need something to bitch about. Wyatt is one of the best things about the product right now. 



The Hitman said:


> They put commercials during a Heyman promo on Raw? fpalm


Seriously haha. Watching live with my GF who knows very little about wrestling she even said that guy talks so well why cut him off? Hahaha no shit! 



bigbuxxx said:


> I'm sure that COTC and SNME are going to go up but they want to keep content going up regularly. It's going to be years before we see the full version of WWEN.


Agreed. I will need to take a day or two off work when all the SNMEs are on the network! :mark:



StraightEdgeJesus said:


> "TWO MORE YEARS! TWO MORE YEARS!"
> 
> Seriously, The Shield is awesome. Though it's more likely that their going to split around Summerslam, I do hope they go on for a bit longer. They're legit my favorite of all time.


I think turning the Shield face buys them more time before the breakup. They can stay face for a bit, turn heel again and stay together longer. I'd love to see one go into Mania as champ, the other win rumble and the other when the MitB and have a triple threat for the belt at Mania 31 or 32. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Ric Flair doesn't make my top ten list of best talkers.


Whaaaaaaaaaat? Not that you are wrong it is YOUR OPINION (foreign concept to some I know) but I agree with you a lot I'd love to hear your top 10 



The Hitman said:


> *Kurt Angle vs Steve Austin - WWF Raw 27.11.2000*



Totally forgot this gem. Good times.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Not sure about the Nitro, but as far as Raw, the "this if your life" was the highest rated SEGMENT, not overall show. Probably the same for Goldberg/Hogan.



Ohhhhh. Gotcha.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> You just hate the BAD ladder matches. Nothing wrong with that. Go watch Benoit/Jericho or TLC III . Or both. Yey both.



Or Eddie/RVD
Or Sheamus/JoMo 


Just finished Angle/Austin Raw 2000. Wow here's another gem from 2000 on Raw I hadn't seen yet. These two have such awesome chemistry, similar to the Benoit match from the same year, this match had Austin doing more mat wrestling than you generally see from him post 1997 neck injury. Fast paced, solid control segment by Angle, and Austin giving one of his awesome heated come backs before Hunter interferes for the schmoze finish. Definitely worth the watch. ***3/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Angle/Austin have like 5 or 6 TV matches in 00 and 01 that all need a watch from peoples. Good shit. Shame their chemistry had died by Vengeance 01 .


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Matchcards for those RAWs/Nitros:

lowest rated RAW: http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wwf/monday-night-raw-taping-993.html
highest rated RAW (midst of the Ministy storyline I guess, matches sound awful): http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wwf/monday-night-raw-1163.html

lowest rated Nitro: http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wcw/nitro-4328.html
highest rated Nitro (this one was when Warrior was around too): http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wcw/nitro-4328.html


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Are they confirmed at the highest/lowest rated shows though?

Watching the "lowest" rated Raw atm. Some hilariously bad shit :lmao. And some hilariously awesome shit too :lmao.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I have no problem going the full ***** on Austin/Angle Summerslam 2001. Excellent match despite the finish. If you have not seen it that needs to change today. Incredible.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Are they confirmed at the highest/lowest rated shows though?


I think so. There's this graph on wiki:










Kinda confirms your shows.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well that's good enough for me .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Good times. If the E releases the Warrior doc with a few matches I will buy it.


Well, there is a new Warrior DVD/BD out now: http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/review-wwe-ultimate-warrior-the-ultimate-collection-dvd/63480/


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Wonder what caused the massive nose dive in ratings on Raw in September of 1999?

We all know what caused Raw to gain the upper hand on Nitro for good, right? Our lord and Savior Michael Francis Foley strikes again!


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Haven't really following the product for the past few weeks, but I heard of Barrett beating Sheamus on Raw checked that out on YouTube. 

That's fucking great, really hope they'll do something with Barrett. I'm skeptical, but I do have some hope. He's my second favorite on the roster currently, behind Dolph Ziggler. Entertaining on the mic, good look, and decent in the ring. He should be a Main Eventer.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> That wasn't Cesaro making anything. Zayn has had that in him for over a decade now. Man is the definitive babyface out there.


Zayn might be the best babyface in wrestling today and I actually feel uncomfortable saying "might." I cheered for him at an ROH show when he wrestled Kevin Steen and I was wearing a Kevin Steen shirt and didn't want Steen to lose because if he did he would have to leave ROH. But I still cheered for Generico/Zayn.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just finished Swagger/Cesaro from Smackdown. Goodness this was all sorts of awesome. I do however wish they would have given Swagger a bit more offense and not had it be such a clean win. This seemed like the perfect situation for a 15 minute time limit draw, but oh yea, WWE doesn't have time limits anymore :cuss:

***3/4 from me. Love Cesaros corkscrew uppercut.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> Well, there is a new Warrior DVD/BD out now: http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/review-wwe-ultimate-warrior-the-ultimate-collection-dvd/63480/



Indeed. Bought it the day it came out. Really enjoy it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Indeed. Bought it the day it came out. Really enjoy it.


Havn't watched it myself yet, but the Warrior kid in me made me buy it lol. That and the Network doc go hand in hand nicely. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cesaro/Swagger: ***1/2
Shield/Rudos: ***1/4

Austin/Angle from late 2000 that was just posted by the most valuable asset in this thread is really really good. Happened a week after the equally great Austin/Benoit match. Eventually I'll do my writeup for 2000, but I think that match might be Angle's best singles match up to that point in his career. I don't think he surpassed it until Backlash 2001 at the very least.

Why does Cal care about ratings? Put that shit in the ratings thread :side:

My top ten microphone fiends:

10. Jake Roberts 
9. CM Punk
8. Steve Austin
7. Bobby Heenan
6. Chris Jericho
5. Vince McMahon
4. Roddy Piper
3. Paul Heyman
2. Mick Foley
1. The Rock

Where does Flair fit in to all of this?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm 33 so I remember Warrior in his prime like it was yesterday. Had a Warrior shirt, wrestling buddy, LJN character, hasbro character, etc. Saw him live a few times....most notably vs Andre, vs Savage in a cage (like a week after Savage cost him the title at Rumble) and a body bag match vs Taker. 

So fun to relive all of this stuff on this set. Wish they had got Warrior to do commentary on the Hogan and Savage matches at WM 6 and 7. If you smarks don't know much about Warrior are expecting 4-5 star matches (outside of a few) you will be let down but the character was amazing and very entertaining. Warrior was so over from 88-92 it was nuts. I don't give a shit what anyone says the crash the plane promo is money.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> My top ten microphone fiends:
> 
> 10. Jake Roberts
> 9. *Ric Flair*
> ...


Fixed. Switching orders around aside, the inclusions are pretty much spot on. But a Flair-less top ten has no credibility.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Kinda hoping we get Cesaro/Swagger at Extreme Rules. Maybe a 2 out of 3 falls match?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Kinda hoping we get Cesaro/Swagger at Extreme Rules. Maybe a 2 out of 3 falls match?


RVD will end up on the card, too. I'm sure of it. They'll either do RVD vs Cesaro (vs Swagger) or Big E vs Barrett vs RVD, imo. The former is more likely, however.

But seriously, where are the stipulations? Only two gimmick matches so far.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

When will "The best of RAW after the show" come out ? can't find it online.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

robertdeniro said:


> When will "The best of RAW after the show" come out ? can't find it online.


Well, its out now in the US. Next week in Europe i think.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> Well, its out now in the US. Next week in Europe i think.


Thanks .

I'm excited about the Under-Take-A-Rooni segment more than anything .


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

^^^^
Do you like the Undertaker?


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> ^^^^
> Do you like the Undertaker?


I am a Taker mark,of course .


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)




----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Flair would most definitely be #1 for me on the stick, so much range, only guy' whose promos make me laugh/pumped up/in awe of and what is better than a guy flaunting his luxuries ?

Cant be asked to do a compete list as I know I'll forget some but I know these guys are behind flair for me :

Savage ( such a mark for his promos)
foley
scsa
heyman
rock
Hbk ( wasnt as gifted as on the stick as these guys, but his charisma literally oozed out)
Punk


And going to name a wildcard, Kevin Nash. Guy just had a "cool" factor during the nwo days that I really liked


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> The Undertaker >>> Robert De Niro


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 10 mic workers for me would be something like this:

1) Heyman
2) Foley
3-10) Flair, Austin, Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, CM Punk, Jake Roberts, Rock, Vince McMahon

3-10 in no specific order, although Flair, Austin, and Jericho would probably round out the top 5... maybe Vince instead of Jericho.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

I would put Randy Savage in the top 10 mic workers of all time.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I love ranking things. It's a fun nerdy hobby of mine. But I struggle to rank wrestling topics. 

I have a hard time not saying Flair isn't #1 all time on the mic though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

robertdeniro said:


> I would put Randy Savage in the top 10 mic workers of all time.



Agreed. Savage was just the man in all aspects. Just watch his "Cream Rises to the Top" promo where he talks about how President Tunney is just trying to hold him back. Classic stuff. Everything with Savage was a conspiracy against him, I loved that about his promos. He made it seem like he was the only one who could see things for how they truly were. Any negative statements against the Macho Man were just propaganda designed to keep him from his rightful spot at the top. Also am a huge fan of the promos he did on Hogan leading up to WM 5 "YOU GOT LUST IN YOUR EYES FOR ELIZABETH!" "I HATE YOUR GUTS, AND THATS ALL THATS GONNA BE LEFT, ALL OVER THE MAT, AT WRESTLEMANIA FIVEEEEEE".


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)




----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

My favorite heel turn ever.....


----------



## ArabGuy (Jan 23, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Agreed. Savage was just the man in all aspects. Just watch his "Cream Rises to the Top" promo where he talks about how President Tunney is just trying to hold him back. Classic stuff. Everything with Savage was a conspiracy against him, I loved that about his promos. He made it seem like he was the only one who could see things for how they truly were. Any negative statements against the Macho Man were just propaganda designed to keep him from his rightful spot at the top. Also am a huge fan of the promos he did on Hogan leading up to WM 5 "YOU GOT LUST IN YOUR EYES FOR ELIZABETH!" "I HATE YOUR GUTS, AND THATS ALL THATS GONNA BE LEFT, ALL OVER THE MAT, AT WRESTLEMANIA FIVEEEEEE".


Ironic thing is that he was really paranoid, it wasn't a gimmic. 
Scott Hall and Kevin Sullivan have both said in seperate interviews that you could say something normal to randy "nice day" as Kevin said and "nice shoes" as hall said, and he'd reply with "what do you mean by that?" Both hall and Sullivan said.
Them quoting the same reply by savage convinced me this was a norm with him. May he RIP.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Can't tell me they are not on something here lol:

*Hulk Hogan-Randy Savage Promo (WCW Monday Nitro 02.12.1996)*

x1rjvqx


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> Can't tell me they are not on something here lol:
> 
> *Hulk Hogan-Randy Savage Promo (WCW Monday Nitro 02.12.1996)*
> 
> x1rjvqx



Just high on life, baby! :lmao

Yeah totally on coke IMHO


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Watched the hyped stuff from Smackdown, Swagger/Cesaro was ***1/2, that corkscrew uppercut was god tier level shit. Rhodes'/Wyatt's is also something I enjoyed a lot ***, Goldust is currently in better shape now then he was in like 1997. Shield/Heels was really good, ***1/2 but nothing near as good as the Shield/Faces handicap match from last year, but I'm hoping we may get something like that either Monday or Friday next week. Speaking of which, has Rollins even had a singles match this year? I know Reigns had the awesome Punk and Wyatt match, and Ambrose had the awesome Henry title defense, but I'm just drawing blanks on Rollins. 

Also, speaking of that, Cesaro continues his WOTY run so far, can't wait until after exams so I can start doing some in depth write-ups and be more active here. Who do some of you guys currently have as WOTY so far, in terms of the WWE (or worldwide I guess)?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, if anyone saw that Part 1 of PG Era PPV's list I did... ignore that completely 

You see, I took all of my PG Era show star ratingz, plus the matches, and decided to rank them all according to the Cal Scale. And I threw in the top 50 PG Era PPV matches for the sake of it. Here's how it looks:



> Royal Rumble 2013: 3
> Royal Rumble 2012: 3.5
> Royal Rumble 2010: 4
> TLC 2009: 5
> ...


On the PPV's ranking on the Cal Scale, the biggest surprises positively were BY FAR Cyber Sunday '08 and Breaking Point. Negatively, the few good Royal Rumbles (2009 and 2014), and Bragging Rights '09. Imo at least.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Well, if anyone saw that Part 1 of PG Era PPV's list I did... ignore that completely
> 
> You see, I took all of my PG Era show star ratingz, plus the matches, and decided to rank them all according to the Cal Scale. And I threw in the top 50 PG Era PPV matches for the sake of it. Here's how it looks:
> 
> ...



No Show/Henry Vengeance 2011? No Henry/Orton NoC? No Henry/Cena MitB? No Henry/Sheamus SS? NO HENRY PERIOD???!!! 

Come on now, atleast 1 or 2 of those matches should have made it, atleast IMO. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't see Taker/Edge WM 24, Flair/HBK WM 24, or HBK/Jericho GAB OR JD on there. Interesting. Did you not consider those part of the "PG Era"?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> No Show/Henry Vengeance 2011? No Henry/Orton NoC? No Henry/Cena MitB? No Henry/Sheamus SS? NO HENRY PERIOD???!!!
> 
> Come on now, atleast 1 or 2 of those matches should have made it, atleast IMO. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't see Taker/Edge WM 24, Flair/HBK WM 24, or HBK/Jericho GAB OR JD on there. Interesting. Did you not consider those part of the "PG Era"?


All of those Henry matches I have at ***3/4 or ***1/2, and the lowest match in my list is at **** so you can see 

And yeah, as far as I know, the first PG PPV was The Great American Bash '08, thus I couldn't include anything before that. And regarding HBK/Jericho GAB, I gave it only ***3/4 too (I was originally at **** but went down on it a bit due to it only getting really interesting from the bladejob onwards, prior to that it isn't that much great imo).


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Wasn't Summerslam 2008 the first PG rated PPV?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Actually yeah, I got it wrong, TGAB '08 was the last PPV BEFORE the PG rating, SS '08 was the first after all. Thanks MyNameIsJonMarston (Red Dead Redemption ftw).

Then again, the only change it makes in the list is that it's one PPV less


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Excellent list, ATF. Don't have any objections, except I guess Cena/Batista at ER 2010 isn't ****1/2 level good, but that's a very small point on a match that I really like anyways. Also agree with no Mark Henry on that list. I love him, but he did not have a match on the level of any of the ones listed there. Henry's beauty isn't classic matches, but it's in his frequent output and his understanding of his role. Honestly, there are only three matches in his illustrious career that I have at ****+. But star ratings don't reflect how great he is.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Glancing at that list, I'd have probably 3/4 lower than **** .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cena/Batista ER was, to me, the LMS style match done right. That's mostly because those were two characters built as equal gladiators, and them not backing down from everything thrown at the opponent to the point where one has to use DUCT TAPE (ARE YOU SERIOUS?!) to take down the other is just fucking glorious to watch. Plus, two big guys beating the living Jesus out of each other = awesomeness.

My highest rated Henry match is the Bryan Cage match at **** - but that took place on Smackdown, so it couldn't make the list unfortunely. Neither could the Raw 2012 match w/Punk (the 1st one), at the same rating. Still, Henry is definitely one of, if not my favorite super heavyweight of all time, period (not counting Taker or Kane, that is).


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Thought Hardy/Trips NM2008 was a lil better than the Survivor Series 08 TT. Cena/Jericho deserves a spot.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Cena/Batista ER was, to me, the LMS style match done right. That's mostly because those were two characters built as equal gladiators, and them not backing down from everything thrown at the opponent to the point where one has to use DUCT TAPE (ARE YOU SERIOUS?!) to take down the other is just fucking glorious to watch. Plus, two big guys beating the living Jesus out of each other = awesomeness.


Don't think i've seen that one.  I do love matches wheer two guys just sorta throw bombs at each other though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Survivor Series 08 Triple Threat? As in HHH/Edge/Kozlov? That is a fucking DUD, so anything (or almost) is better 

Just kidding, HHH/Jeff NM was just a pinch away from the list tbh, but I decided to include the Triple Threat from SS *09* instead, since it did offer me some bigger excitement, and a better ending too.

Oh, and Jericho/Cena SS 08 (if that's what you mean) IS in the list, somewhere in the middle


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Excellent list, ATF. Don't have any objections, except I guess Cena/Batista at ER 2010 isn't ****1/2 level good, but that's a very small point on a match that I really like anyways. Also agree with no Mark Henry on that list. I love him, but he did not have a match on the level of any of the ones listed there. Henry's beauty isn't classic matches, but it's in his frequent output and his understanding of his role. Honestly, there are only three matches in his illustrious career that I have at ****+. But star ratings don't reflect how great he is.



Henry vs Punk Raw
Henry vs Punk No DQ Raw
Henry vs Benoit Smackdown
Henry vs Finlay Smackdown
Henry vs Finlay Belfast Brawl Armageddon
Henry vs Big Show Vengeance
Henry vs Orton NoC 
Henry vs Bryan Cage Smackdown
Henry vs Matt Hardy (can't remember if it was Smackdown or ECW)

Are all the matches I have from Henry in the ****+ range. And his match with Cena at MitB I have at ***3/4 but would have gotten the 4 if not for the godawful finish. Am I just a blind Henry mark? Maybe, but he's one of my all time favorites and I'd much rather watch all of those matches than something like Cena/Batista Summerslam. Not saying you are in this camp, but I'd say as a whole Henry is MASSIVELY underrated by the general wrestling fanbase. He's second only to Vader for best Super Heavyweight of all time IMO. And as good as your boy Punk was, I think a good claim can be made that Henry was the best wrestler in the world in 2011.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Nice little thread about underrated matches....thought I'd repost here for some of my favorite fucks on this forum 

1990- Undertaker, DiBiase, Honky Tonk Man, Greg Valentine vs Hart Foundation, Dusty Rhodes and Koko B Ware 
1991- Bret vs Ted DiBiase SNME (a few weeks after WM 7) 
1992- Bret vs Piper WM8/ Warrior vs Savage Summerslam 
1993- Steve Austin vs Brian Pillman CotC 
1994- Steamboat vs Austin CotC Taker vs Yokozuna Survivor Series (Chuck fucking Norris!!!!) 
1995 Bret vs Diesel Survivor Series/ Flair vs Arn Anderson Fall Brawl 
1996- Sid vs HBK Survivor Series 
1997- HBK vs Bret Survivor Series (yeah I said it....fun as hell brawl first half of the match) 
1998- Rock vs Mankind Survivor Series/ Bret vs Flair Souled Out/ HBK vs Taker Royal Rumble 
1999- Austin vs Rock Backlash (it's rated high but I don't hear many people talk about it....blows away their Mania match that year) 
2000- Pegasus vs Jericho Backlash (overshadowed by Rock/HHH same night) 
2001- Taker vs HHH Wrestlemania 17 (Overshadowed by their other two Mania matches)/ Angle vs HHH Royal Rumble/ Edge vs Christian NO Mercy 
2002- RVD vs Jericho KotR/ Jericho vs Rock Royal Rumble 
2003- Orton vs HBK Unforgiven/ Angle vs Brock vs Big Show Vengeance
2004- Angle vs Guerrero at Mania and Summerslam
2005- Taker/Orton Armageddon (hell in a cell) 
2007- Rated RKO vs DX New Years Revolution 
2008- Edge vs Batista Night of Champions/ HHH vs Edge Great American Bash
2009- Edge vs Jeff Hardy Royal Rumble
2010- Jericho vs Edge Wrestlemania (just watched this the other day for the first time in a long time and loved it)
2011- Punk vs ADR Survivor Series/ Punk vs Mysterio Capital Punishment (yeah I said it)

2012- Punk vs Jericho & Rock vs Cena at Mania.....yes I know they both get praise but I think they both hold up and are still awesome especially Punk and Jericho.......Punk vs Bryan MitB and Sheamus vs Dolph No Way Out 
2013- Cena vs Punk Raw 2-25/ Bryan vs Orton Raw Street 6-24 (their best match together IMHO) 
2014- Nothing really so far.....I did enjoy the Rumble match itself despite Booooootista winning...Reigns was just Godly


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Wow, my mind is fucked today, lol. Punk/Hardy & Cena/Edge LMS, are they on your list? ATF

Edit: Thanks for the contribution Macho, much appreciated.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Uhhh... nope. Neither of them. But Punk/Jeff TLC was close, much like HHH/Jeff. Poor Jeff Hardy didn't have a lot of stuff it seems


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I feel like Cesaro/Orton from this year is a highly underrated match this year, I've hardly seen it mentioned anywhere, and I have it at ****. A couple of more underrated gems this year are Matadores/Sin Cara vs The Shield, Sheamus/Ryback and Sheamus/Bryan/Mysterio vs The Shield. PPV I'd say Swagger/Big E from Elimination Chamber is underrated as well. The thing about attempting to watch everything for a project this year is finding the sweet gems in a stacked year for WWE (Rhodes'/Real Americans 3/18 and Sheamus/O'Neil are two other awesome matches from Main Event).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Uhhh... nope. Neither of them. But Punk/Jeff TLC was close, much like HHH/Jeff. Poor Jeff Hardy didn't have a lot of stuff it seems


You had Jeff/Trips NM 08' on there right?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Didn't I say "no" to that last page? 

I cut it out in favor of Cena/HHH/HBK. Sorry to break your heart, Chris, but my opinions are on drugs it seems unk


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Trish/Mickie WM22 or Trish/Lita UF 06? I may have Trish/Lita as MOTN, ME is mediocre and HIAC is just plain fun but nothing more. Umaga/Kane is really fun too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Trish/Mickie for sure. Best story two Divas ever told by far. GOAT WWE Divas match, followed by Trish/Lita UF and in bronze, (believe it or not) Paige/Emma Arrival.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Hey, for my birthday could you guys give me some Ruthless Agression-current suggestions so I can reminisce?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> Hey, for my birthday could you guys give me some Ruthless Agression-current suggestions so I can reminisce?



Happy Birthday!

I'd go with Mr. Ruthless Aggression himself Chris Benoit vs Mark Henry Smackdown 5/26/06. Cal posted a link to it on Page 284 if you can't find it


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k1IxpsottxBO4I6Mg6K here it is. Also, STOP STEALING MY BIRTHDAY.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Happy Birthday!
> 
> I'd go with* Mr. Ruthless Aggression himself Chris Benoit* vs Mark Henry Smackdown 5/26/06. Cal posted a link to it on Page 284 if you can't find it


Truer words never spoken. I may have hard feelings, but he was a God in the ring and to a little me.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Happy Birthday!
> 
> I'd go with Mr. Ruthless Aggression himself Chris Benoit vs Mark Henry Smackdown 5/26/06. Cal posted a link to it on Page 284 if you can't find it


But I'm only on page 174...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

bigbuxxx said:


> But I'm only on page 174...


For some reason most people aren't on 25 posts per page.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Laziness is my guess.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Or stupidness. Probably that. Everyone is stooopid.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Angle/Austin have like 5 or 6 TV matches in 00 and 01 that all need a watch from peoples. Good shit. Shame their chemistry had died by Vengeance 01 .


I know, right? Why does that match stink, but a mere few months prior SUMMERSLAM _(and Unforgiven & TV)_ happened and those rule. Listened to a a brief tale Austin spun about working w/Kurt & in large regards - or was meant to be - about the SummerSlam match, then he tells us about that one time Angle blew up during a house show. Classic Austin.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I would have multiple, multiple Henry matches over ATF's #2 on that list. I reckon I'd even have Henry matches from 2003 over it.


Top ten talkers:

Roddy Piper
Jerry Lawler
Arn Anderson
Jake Roberts
Ric Flair
Dusty Rhodes
Steve Austin
Bobby Heenan
Terry Funk
Mick Foley


That was actually really easy once my memory kicked in.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> I would have multiple, multiple Henry matches over ATF's #2 on that list. I reckon I'd even have Henry matches from 2003 over it.
> 
> 
> Top ten talkers:
> ...


I very much like this list... though just for personal preferences I'd take out Dusty because I'm not a fan of his actual promos . I'd cheat and throw in Lance Russell just because I **** love his voice . Or Heyman.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

For some reason, when Mark Henry matches (the good ones) are brought up, I think of chocolate. :lol

Also there's no way in hell Royal Rumble 2013 is worse than 2012. The latter has five, if not six DUDs. The former has a fun Rumble and three decent matches plus an awesome ending.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah, please tell me you posted that list of talkers in the thread on the subject. People need to recognize.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Angry H, that sig is horrid fix that shit


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Sig is great, Skins. Don't see an issue.

Working my way through Vengeance 2005. Shelton/Carlito was pretty fun. Skipped something after that - I think the women's match. Viscera dumping Lillian in favor of the hoes :lmao. Michaels/Angle was good. I :mark:ed for both superkicks, but the idea of the finish was um, interesting. Kurt going to the top rope only to get kicked, after just taking a kick. :hmm: WWE title match time.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> For some reason, when Mark Henry matches (the good ones) are brought up, I think of chocolate. :lol


:lmao

Reads: 

"Mark Henry v. Finlay was great"

Pictures: 



Spoiler: jhkl

















Odafin Tutuola said:


> Yeah, please tell me you posted that list of talkers in the thread on the subject. People need to recognize.


Didn't know there was a thread, I only saw people post it here when funnyfaces posted his top ten w/out Flair (booooooo, btw).


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

You've not seen the thread? Probably a good thing. I think it's loads of pages of people complaining about Punk not being higher than they think he should be. Rock is at number 2. (It's a WWE.com list) Flair holds the top spot.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

THOUGHT I'D INTERJECT THIS GEEK THREAD JUST TO TALK ABOUT A MUCH UNDERRATED FIGHT:

*MICK FOLEY vs. TERRY FUNK*

This took place on Raw back in 1998. Funk was chosen to be Foley's opponent by Vince McMahon. Vince wanted Mick (at the time Dude Love) to prove himself. Steve Austin wangled himself to be a commentator and Pat Patterson was the ref but this brawl is AWESOME. Funk busts Foley open early with a chair, then Foley does his customary jump off the apron onto Funk. They fight into the back. Austin punches Lawler and he;s gone. (if only that happened now). They fight into the crowd. PILEDRIVER THROUGH THE FUCKING TABLE. HOLY SHIT. Commercial.#

BACK FROM COMMERCIAL. Foley is throwing Funk through all kinds of shit. By the way Pat Patterson is the ref, but nobody notices. Austin is commentating and he is GOLDEN. Seriously legendary. Foley hits Funk with more chairs then piledrives him in the ring. TWO COUNT. PILEDRIVER ON THE CHAIR. THREE COUNT.

This review does not do the match justice. Afterwards Foley celebrates with Vince. Austin is PISSED.

A bonafide ****1/2 match. TREMENDOUS.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If anyone underrates that match they should be punch in the face everyday until they are no longer living.

I don't think there is a match out there that entertains me half as much as the combo of Foley & Funk killing each other + Austin's hilarious - and i'm talking HILARIOUS/QUOTABLE - commentary does. Legendary combo.

JR is quotable in it too: "THE HOT DOG GUY JUST GOT IT! OH, GOD HE GOT IT AGAIN!"


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Oh yea, Austin was commentating in that match. A great RAW match though usurped by a lot. Wouldn't go anywhere near a ****1/2 rating, probably a firm ***1/2 tbh.

Hayley, I live in Australia, state New South Wales. Your Job is the rest, assassin.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> You've not seen the thread? Probably a good thing. I think it's loads of pages of people complaining about Punk not being higher than they think he should be. Rock is at number 2. (It's a WWE.com list) Flair holds the top spot.


No, it's a mixture of lots of things, which results in "mark wars" and arguments. Personally, I think Punk should have been at least a bit higher up on the list, considering there were a couple of guys put ahead of him that I don't think were better than him on the mic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

like who


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I know that this may be unpopular, but I think he was at least somewhat of a better "talker" than, say, Jericho and Cena. No slight on either of them, either.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Gosh, Jericho is kinda overrated in the promo department. Don't think much of him in the ring either.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I would have agreed if you said Cena and Hogan. I think Jericho's fine where he is, but I respect if other folks rate him differently. I might even say that Vince has too high a position on that list. Flair in my mind is the gold standard, but I enjoy a ton of the people on Yeah's list.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> I would have agreed if you said Cena and Hogan. I think Jericho's fine where he is, but I respect if other folks rate him differently. I might even say that Vince has too high a position on that list. Flair in my mind is the gold standard, but I enjoy a ton of the people on Yeah's list.


Hogan also comes to mind when it comes to what I've said. I get if some prefer Jericho over Punk on the mic, I love listening to both of them, despite the fact that I prefer Punk in that regard. I think the thread really got derailed quickly, and it was more so one or two Punk marks and a few Rock marks arguing with one another about whether Punk or Rock was better on the mic.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> If anyone underrates that match they should be punch in the face everyday until they are no longer living.
> 
> I don't think there is a match out there that entertains me half as much as the combo of Foley & Funk killing each other + Austin's hilarious - and i'm talking HILARIOUS/QUOTABLE - commentary does. Legendary combo.
> 
> JR is quotable in it too: "THE HOT DOG GUY JUST GOT IT! OH, GOD HE GOT IT AGAIN!"


I forgot to mention that Funk did a fucking MOONSAULT OFF THE BLEACHERS. HOLY FUCKING SHIT.

I miss Funk and his crazy days.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> :lmao
> 
> Reads:
> 
> ...


:lmao

I was actually thinking something more like this:



Spoiler: chocolate















It's funny you mentioned Henry vs Finlay since that's the one match that really sounds appealing to me on paper. The combination of red and green helps a bit too.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Stop watching Henry vs. Finlay and watch Foley vs. Funk you cunts.

Forgive me I'm drunk, but dammit it's worth it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It's in the first half of 1998, right? If so, I might just wait it out until I reach that point in my WWF AE project. Right now I'm at King of the Ring 97, so I still have a bit to go but as the attitude grows bigger, it will be easier and more fun to go through the shows.

While I'm talking about it, I should just go and finish KOTR 97 so I can make my way through the month of June.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> It's in the first half of 1998, right? If so, I might just wait it out until I reach that point in my WWF AE project. Right now I'm at King of the Ring 97, so I still have a bit to go but as the attitude grows bigger, it will be easier and more fun to go through the shows.
> 
> While I'm talking about it, I should just go and finish KOTR 97 so I can make my way through the month of June.


Aw man it happens around May 1998. You will not regret it man, it's a FIGHT. Pure Foley vs. Funk fury. LEGNEDARY.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Cactus Jack vs Hunter on RAW 1997/1998? street fight is superb too.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Cactus Jack vs Hunter on RAW 1997/1998? street fight is superb too.


September 22, 1997, the debut of Cactus Jack in MSG. Great match indeed.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Foley/Funk on RAW is awesome...love that so fucking much, probably would go ****1/4 for it


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So NOW people are talking about Austin vs. Angle TV matches?  Never worked when I reviewed some in the past. Their best TV encounter imo is January 8, 2001. Angle is coming in as champ and defending. Such a fun match, even better if you like a lot of SUPLEXES.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I would have Punk clearly ahead of Cena and Jericho on promos. I....don't know about Hogan. I love a Hulkamnia promo, but once he hit nWo Hogan and wasn't doing just an evil variation of Hulkamania, well....fuck, those promos are unreal. I'd rather watch a Hogan promo than a Punk promo, I think.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hogan's nWo promos were awful. I'd much rather listen to Cal talk about potato salad for hours.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:kobe no, we should revoke your opinions on mic work having a list with Jericho and no Naitch :kobe9


how you like kobe smileys


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hogan NWO promos were legit the only good thing about his time in WCW


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Smitty hasnt watched alot of wcw then :kobe9


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Good Hogan matches? Havent seen one in WCW by him 

Angles/promos is where he was successful from what I have seen


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Hogan's nWo promos were awful. I'd much rather listen to Cal talk about potato salad for hours.


yeah........

WRONG AGAIN. 

X


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just to start you off with a few

Flair/Hogan Batb 94
flair/hogan HH 
hogan/anderson nitro
hogan/vader superbrawl


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Hogan/Warrior Halloween Havoc 1998

CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED :troll


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah havent seen any of those, I'll check em out soon SKINS


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I have to agree with SKINS. Anyone without Flair in their top 10 mic workers should have their opinion completely disregarded on that side of wrestling. Plus ff seems to have Goldberg-level hate for Hogan which he seems to hide by not being so blatant the way I am with Punk or the brothers with The Usos.

I'm torn between Heyman, Rock and Flair for the greatest. I would put Flair first but as soon as I listen to Heyman or a Rock promo from 99, I have to reconsider it. I might just go with NAITCH because his passion is unreal and never stops entertaining me.

I'd also have Angle over both Cena and Punk.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hogan's good matches in WCW were all long before the NWO days. As soon as we got Hollywood Hulk Hogan, the matches became complete horse shit. Some good stuff scattered throughout '94-'95, especially against Flair. Promo wise I've never seen that many to have an opinion on.

Watching the NWO Revolution doc right now on the network. I feel like I've seen all this shit before... in another documentary.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Is the NWO documentary good? I saw the NWO Revolution DVD tied with the DX One Last Stand DVD for $9 at Wal-Mart as a value pack. I'm thinking about getting it since it's 9$ for the pack.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RFWHC said:


> I know that this may be unpopular, but I think he was at least somewhat of a better "talker" than, say, Jericho and Cena. No slight on either of them, either.


I wouldn't know the world where saying Punk is a better talker than Jericho or Cena. Picking either one of the two mentioned would be the more common minority decision.



BAH GAWD IT'S KRANG said:


> I forgot to mention that Funk did a fucking MOONSAULT OFF THE BLEACHERS. HOLY FUCKING SHIT.
> 
> I miss Funk and his crazy days.


Funk screaming "MY NECK...STOP THE MATCH" after it too only adds to the enormity of how terrific it all is. I remember this stuff like the back of my hand. It's gold.



SMITTY said:


> Hogan NWO promos were legit the only good thing about his time in WCW


vs Vader - SuperBrawl 1995
vs Ric Flair - Bash at the Beach 1994, a Clash in 1994 iirc, Nitro 1/29/96
w/Savage vs Flair & Anderson - Nitro 1/1/96
vs MENG - 1/15/96
vs Arn Anderson - 2/12/96
vs Billy Kidman - Slamboree 2000

I'm a bit too blurry on 1999 stuff atm, but he may have had another good match vs Flair, the singles match vs DDP in Canada wasn't too bad iirc, & there are a chance for a few tags being solid. Hogan really only had about...idk, less than 100 matches within the company, give or take. But he still had few good/great matches peppered in there.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Is the NWO documentary good? I saw the NWO Revolution DVD tied with the DX One Last Stand DVD for $9 at Wal-Mart as a value pack. I'm thinking about getting it since it's 9$ for the pack.


There's really no point. It's just the same shit they've shown on the Rise and Fall of WCW and the Monday Night Wars, plus the match listing is god awful. You can just watch it on the network if you have it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, the laziness behind it is pathetic. :duck


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

THAT FUCKIN SMILEY

:duck


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Where's Evan to bury the Revolution DVD? :lol

His review of it was one of the funniest things I've read in the history of this thread.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Best part of this doc by far is Cody Rhodes telling his childhood stories and his accounts of the timeframe.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Pretty sure most of the important stuff of the NWO doc was included in the Rock/Hogan WM Rewind special on the Network also.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Doesn't help that everything involving the nWo is so passe. What is there to possibly learn about the faction these days? We'd need some general wrestling sleaze stories involving the angle to spice up any discussion. We know where Bischoff got the idea from - New Japan etc - Outsiders coming in, the great Hogan turn & promo, and the rest of it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Did anyone notice on the HBK/Bret DVD how Shawn pretty much plead amnesia anytime Bret said anything negative? He basically just said "well, you're probably right, but I can't comment on it", or something of that nature. 

Most documentaries in this era aren't going to be what we want them to be. Punk and Foley's are the exception.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

oh for fuck's sake I forgot Randy Savage on my top talkers list. No way in shit he gets left out but I'm not sure who to replace.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lawler would be my pick. I'm using his modern string of trash to persuade me. That and I know I like everyone else on the list - including Savage - more.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Tanner1495 said:


> I feel like Cesaro/Orton from this year is a highly underrated match this year, I've hardly seen it mentioned anywhere, and I have it at ****. A couple of more underrated gems this year are Matadores/Sin Cara vs The Shield, Sheamus/Ryback and Sheamus/Bryan/Mysterio vs The Shield. PPV I'd say Swagger/Big E from Elimination Chamber is underrated as well. The thing about attempting to watch everything for a project this year is finding the sweet gems in a stacked year for WWE (Rhodes'/Real Americans 3/18 and Sheamus/O'Neil are two other awesome matches from Main Event).


I thought Cesaro/Orton was great on first watch but it didn't hold up on a re-watch. I still think it's good, bordering on very good, but I wouldn't call it great. Would definitely take something like Graves/Zayn from NXT or the Real Americans v Christian/Sheamus tag over it in terms of 2013 gems deserving love. Don't think I saw that Sin Cara/Shield six man. Sheamus/Ryback is a good call. I completely forgot about that. Definitely a goodie. Didn't like Swagger/Langston. Actually thought it got way more praise than it merited. I suppose I can kind of see why people thought it was good but I wasn't impressed.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> I thought Cesaro/Orton was great on first watch but it didn't hold up on a re-watch. I still think it's good, bordering on very good, but I wouldn't call it great. Would definitely take something like Graves/Zayn from NXT or the Real Americans v Christian/Sheamus tag over it in terms of 2013 gems deserving love. Don't think I saw that Sin Cara/Shield six man. Sheamus/Ryback is a good call. I completely forgot about that. Definitely a goodie. Didn't like Swagger/Langston. Actually thought it got way more praise than it merited. I suppose I can kind of see why people thought it was good but I wasn't impressed.


Watch Matadores/Cara vs Shield now, also Wyatt's vs Cara/Matadores the week before. Both are right before Elimination Chamber and they are so good, did not expect the mesh to be there. 

I'm currently trying to track down all the Real Americans matches this year, because although Cesaro has been on fire, Swagger is right there in my opinion, probably his best in WWE besides 2009. 

Has any Superstars matches been noteworthy this year? I got Swagger/Kidd but that it, has there really been nothing else or have I missed it?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Lawler would be my pick. I'm using his modern string of trash to persuade me. That and I know I like everyone else on the list - including Savage - more.


Lawler from the 80s and 90s was way too good to leave off. At his best he was as ''realistic'' as anybody on the stick ever. Like, during the best angles from Memphis, when he'd talk, it'd feel almost totally believable to me in a way that I don't think I've seen from a wrestler otherwise. I'm not using pure realism as the main point here, though. I mean I sometimes believe Ken Kennedy's promos when he acts like a fucking moron, but that ain't good. It's more the realism and the personality and the situation and everything else fused into one. I remember the angle with Dundee and the car from 85 and Lawler's reactions came off as totally genuinely and just perfect. I've seen people in real life in similar situations act that EXACT way and that really, really gripped me in (not really similar situations in relation to the car stuff, but more Lawler's reactions to Dundee's overzealous behaviour and freaking out). He also gets five million points because Lawler v. Kaufman is probably my favourite out-of-the-ring feud of all time. When he wasn't terribly realistic he was still utterly perfect as the weaselly insulting asshole. I remember that match from 1996 against some jobber where was holding a microphone the entire match and it was unreal. 

I don't really count commentary as promo work. I guess it does count, though? I don't know, I suppose I've never really thought about it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I only threw in the commentary jab as a way to make the choice easier. That and like I said I know have a preference for all the other talkers over him w/o trying to give him any due. And admittedly there is more of a lack in terms of exposure to a good bit of his Memphis work, whereas all of the others guys you listed I've seen countless promos and whatnot from. I'm only working LARGELY off his WWF tenure. And while that's amazing - it really is, the heat he could gather was stellar - I dunno, I felt it was easy enough to go w/the other ten. Not like I'm making a list either, so screw it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Can somebody tell me which is the best of the (short) Chris Benoit vs Shelton Benjamin matches?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> Did anyone notice on the HBK/Bret DVD how Shawn pretty much plead amnesia anytime Bret said anything negative? He basically just said "well, you're probably right, but I can't comment on it", or something of that nature.
> 
> Most documentaries in this era aren't going to be what we want them to be. Punk and Foley's are the exception.


Not to mention the 1605 "You know's"


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Hogan's nWo promos were awful. I'd much rather listen to Cal talk about potato salad for hours.


Well there's an idea for a new video!!! 

Foley/Funk Raw match... haven't seen it in a while and now I wanna. Is it on a DVD set? If so I might have it and it'll be quicker to find that digging out my Raw 98 discs .


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Well there's an idea for a new video!!!
> 
> Foley/Funk Raw match... haven't seen it in a while and now I wanna. Is it on a DVD set? If so I might have it and it'll be quicker to find that digging out my Raw 98 discs .


It's on Foley's Greatest Hits & Misses.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raging Eboue said:


> It's on Foley's Greatest Hits & Misses.


Yey


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Randy Savage vs Ric Flair - WCW Superbrawl VI (02.11.1996)*

Cage match - Includes pre-match promo

x1robrj

*By request


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I wouldn't know the world where saying Punk is a better talker than Jericho or Cena. Picking either one of the two mentioned would be the more common minority decision.


Picking Punk over Cena isn't very unpopular, but picking Punk over Jericho is. I recall that there was a decently long thread in the WWE section recently which asked either whether Punk or Jericho was better overall, or on the mic, which was locked. The overwhelming majority of posts in the thread answered that it was Jericho and that it's not even close.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Tuned in to finish up Beach Bash 92. Expecting Bagwell/Valentine to be throw away. Oh God. Well worked and class. Definitely worth disrupting the event to type this. Probably equals what I thought of Pillman/Flamingo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RFWHC said:


> Picking Punk over Cena isn't very unpopular, but picking Punk over Jericho is. I recall that there was a decently long thread in the WWE section recently which asked either whether Punk or Jericho was better overall, or on the mic, which was locked. The overwhelming majority of posts in the thread answered that it was Jericho and that it's not even close.


Attitude Era knobs on this site don't count.



Desecrated said:


> Tuned in to finish up Beach Bash 92. Expecting Bagwell/Valentine to be throw away. Oh God. Well worked and class. Definitely worth disrupting the event to type this. Probably equals what I thought of Pillman/Flamingo.


I love how that match shocks EVERYBODY.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I still haven't found out which of the few Benoit/Shelton matches do you guys recommend better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The first of the four wouldn't hurt. I'd say watch all of them. Would only take you about twenty minutes.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, is it just me, or would that Benoit/Shelton match, with a few extra minutes and a better ending, be better than the match it was building to, Angle/Benoit RR (which I have warmed up on a bit as of late due to its entertaining nature)?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not hard to fathom when Shelton is someone I put above Angle on a more consistent basis & working w/Angle always brought out the worst in Benoit.

and it's way better than the PPV match :duck


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Havent reached Survivor Series yet (RAW before it), but The Rock comes across as a douche way more than Jericho.

Finished Rebellion and Angle/Jericho was good, but it disappointed me. Survivor Series match should be pretty awesome.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That was really the consensus around the time, even among my friends who were Rock fans as well as the IWC. To this day, I'm still not sure why Rock was the face in that feud and Jericho was the heel. I don't know if I'm going crazy, but I also recall that every other feud going on at the time was not good. Rock/Jericho saved the WWE for me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Not hard to fathom when Shelton is someone I put above Angle on a more consistent basis & working w/Angle always brought out the worst in Benoit.
> 
> and it's way better than the PPV match :duck


Backlash 2001 would like to say that it didn't ALWAYS bring the worst in Benoit. 

Hell, screw it, Angle himself didn't bring the WORST in Beno... maybe it did, depends on what you expect from him 

I wouldn't put it as WAY better, but for how short it was it was certainly more enjoyable to an extent.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One of my favorite Jericho moments. :lol

*Chris Jericho vs 'Fake Goldberg' (WCW Fall Brawl 1998)*

'Jericho makes a mockery of Goldberg and gets lost on the way to the ring. 
Spinal Tap esque too lol.'

x1rot6w

What is the date of that Owen/Smith match on Raw, 03/03/97?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Backlash 2001 would like to say that it didn't ALWAYS bring the worst in Benoit.
> 
> Hell, screw it, Angle himself didn't bring the WORST in Beno... maybe it did, depends on what you expect from him
> 
> I wouldn't put it as WAY better, but for how short it was it was certainly more enjoyable to an extent.


I still can't think to put myself through thirty minutes to know if I like that match or not. Never did when I was younger so that's an opinion behind the eight ball.

Way better, better. Point remains the same.

I need to go on an NXT binge atm. Which is partial code for saying I want some modern :zayn3 atm. Otherwise known as bliss.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Trust me, if you managed to put yourself a least ONCE through 60 minutes of Bret and Shawn, you have to get a hold of that Ultimate Submission match. It's like all the good things of Austin/Angle SS (only with Angle as a heel) combined into a submission-driven match between Angle and Benoit. One of the smartest matches I've ever seen, and shocking considering Kurt fucking Angle was in it. Hell, he was the star of the match. I know Cal loves it too. Everybody but seemingly you love that. :side:

It's not the same. Almost, but not. :hayley2

Speaking of Zayn, 2 things:
1) he's rumored to soon be called up to the main roster;
2) I wonder if Zayn/Neville is worth a rewatch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ahhh, don't spoil any main roster stuff for me like that plz. Especially if he shows up out of the blue. I want that reaction to be as natural as human ecstasy. 

and ehhhhh. I dunno; maybe. That match was poor & the only disappointment I've seen from Zayn so far. Only Neville's second within WWE. First being the joke of a match vs Ambrose.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Sorry, but it's just RUMORS though. We've been hearing rumors of Sting signing up since 2001, and only now it's happening, so yeah. :lol

Didn't a guy describe Zayn/Neville as a "great Indy style match" here? Cause that's exactly the type of match I remember it to be. Oh well, SPOTZ. And ZAYN. And Neville too, he's quite good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I dunno. Not a fan of that term as it is; nor even sure what it would imply. Some bad wrestlers only use "spots" or junk to get over in any promotion. Not just on the indie circuit.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That was really the consensus around the time, even among my friends who were Rock fans as well as the IWC. To this day, I'm still not sure why Rock was the face in that feud and Jericho was the heel. I don't know if I'm going crazy, but I also recall that every other feud going on at the time was not good. Rock/Jericho saved the WWE for me.


He used the chair to win the title (was brought by Steph, however), but besides that, it was basically all accidents on Jericho's part; The Rock randomly used The Rock Bottom a lot on him, imo. It feels like even the crowd was baffled most of the time.

I agree the feud was the highlight of the WWE back then. The Alliance angle was getting tiring by then.

Jericho's championship gets a lot of shit (I can't argue, haven't watched it), but I hope the PPV matches will be great.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I dunno. Not a fan of that term as it is; nor even sure what it would imply. Some bad wrestlers only use "spots" or junk to get over in any promotion. Not just on the indie circuit.


Well, in a way, you can't really blame them. As far as I know, there is A LOT of people who thinks SPOTZ = WRASSLIN AT ITS FINEST. Example: Dave Meltzer. :meltzer

And there are some guys who do the whole spotty schtick fine. If you consider him one of those guys, Jeff Hardy is one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched Foley/Funk Raw 98 match. I like the match, always have, but will never truly get the love for it. ****1/2 for it? No. Fucking. Way. Early part of the match is kind of a mess and ruined with the commentary crap with Austin and his headset being cut off all the time. Things pick up once they brawl into the crowd at least, which is the only time the fans seem to give a shit too unfortunately. I'd go around *** for it, super fun brawl but lacking in a lot of ways for me. Foley probably has over 100 matches better than this. Funk has most of his career that is better than this, and he's been around since the beginning of time .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^^Booooo

I need to rewatch that match but I do remember that the match was great all the way through and like any great match became progressively more entertaining as it continued. Was that the only match they had in WWF/WCW? I know they had a ton in Japan and I think they had some in ECW, would love to know the dates for the ECW ones to see if they're on the network :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I liked when they started out the 98(?) Rumble just beating the shit out of each other :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

This match. this fucking match, it did need another.........45 minutes IMO, just awesome exchanges and god bless them for this fucking match. On Raw back then too. Stunning.

Need to watch more of Owen, maybe Owen/Benoit from Japan.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rather watch Foley vs Funk over Owen vs Smith. Take that Cal. 8*D

Zep is there a chance you can be the MAN and upload both Seth Rollins vs Drew McIntyre matches from NXT?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Rather watch Foley vs Funk over Owen vs Smith. Take that Cal. 8*D
> 
> Zep is there a chance you can be the MAN and upload both Seth Rollins vs Drew McIntyre matches from NXT?


Oh noes, my feelings are soooo hurt. Please, stop the madness.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can hear the heart breaking in two right now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Zep is there a chance you can be the MAN and upload both Seth Rollins vs Drew McIntyre matches from NXT?


I would mate, but haven't got them unfortunately.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)




----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


>


NOW your heart is breaking. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm gonna stump piledriver you on a steel chair.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I'm gonna stump piledriver you on a steel chair.


Just try it bitch! I'll brand you with a flaming branding iron.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There can only be one. :homer2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

DING DING DING.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

We should start up a kickstarter to get funds so we can meet up and FIGHT, and record the whole thing for people to buy on DVD. It'd sell better than a TNA PPV.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It'd sell better than Dolph Ziggler :homer3

Cal vs. Cody. Sounds like the WM Main Event to me - someone could call Undertaker to be the special guest referee, Meng and Regal to comment and Finlay to be timekeeper 8*D


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

And we'll book it in Scotland too. Icing on the cake.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Empty arena match bar Craig and Andy. In fact, empty arena match and those guys can get pished and do commentary :lmao.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ending: double DQ. Triple H comes and Pedigrees everyone, including Taker and Meng.

:HHH2 :troll


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Give Lawler vs Funk a run for its money.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh guys, did I mention there will be a lot of CRAZY CZW-STYLE SPOTZ in this match? Like, the very first move in the match will be a Headlock Takedown into a wall of C4 :banderas


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley's entrance music is definitely "Bad Romance" by Gaga. And Cal just comes out to Takers "Funeral Dirge" complete with the leather trench coat and cowboy hat.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol, it's funny to imagine ourselves as wrestlers. :lol

I know what I'd come out to and my style would involve a bunch of takedown attempts and a million different submission moves attempted until one works. I would also have an out of place diving headbutt in my arsenal.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

All you geeks stop your fantasizing and watch these :


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Were those Rollins/McIntyre matches good? I watched them when they first aired, and I felt so sad and empty afterwards. Owen/Davey is the GOAT RAW match, and their other match that same month was also incredible. 1997! Or rather, the good parts of 1997!

Zayn/Neville was so fun. As was Bagwell/Valentine.






This is fun. Great to see Jim Duggan die here.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So let me recapitulate:

- Cal comes out to the Taker theme and Cody to Lady Gaga (I'd bet Crushcrushcrush is a more fitting theme 8*D);
- Taker is the guest ref, Finlay is the guest timekeeper, Meng and Regal commentators;
- Crazy extreme spots with barbed wire, C4, anacondas, poisonous spiders and kryptonite;
- In the end, a double DQ in a no DQ match happens when HHH comes in and Pedigrees everyone;
- TITTIES somewhere.

****** CLASSIC :mark:*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> This is fun. Great to see Jim Duggan die here.


Until he squashed Austin in WCW. :cuss:


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

ATF said:


> So let me recapitulate:
> 
> - Cal comes out to the Taker theme and Cody to Lady Gaga (I'd bet Crushcrushcrush is a more fitting theme 8*D);
> - Taker is the guest ref, Finlay is the guest timekeeper, Meng and Regal commentators;
> ...


Was going to say it was a _***** 99/100*_ marred slightly by spot monkeying, but the exquisite inclusion of HHH and titties pushed it to _*******_. One can never go wrong with HHH and titties. Unless it is HHH's titties, which is another topic all together.

Just finished watching a Benjamin v. Cena RAW match from 2006 which was good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> lol, it's funny to imagine ourselves as wrestlers. :lol
> 
> I know what I'd come out to and my style would involve a bunch of takedown attempts and a million different submission moves attempted until one works. I would also have an out of place diving headbutt in my arsenal.


I guess my style would be a mix of Undertaker'esque strikes, Benoit'esque lots of stuff (chops, suplexes, submissions), Mick Foley's in-ring psychology, and a little touch of martial arts and amateur here and there. Yeah, I'd be a do-it-all son of a bitch, eat your heart out Ric Flairs and Mitsuharu Misawas of the world 8*D


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

_July 10th, 2006 Monday Night Raw
Cena v. Benjamin
_​


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> _July 10th, 2006 Monday Night Raw
> Cena v. Benjamin
> _​


Whoever uploaded that is one super awesome and very sexy dude. Better than anyone on here that's for sure.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

lol, HBK eliminated Shelton three times in a row from the RR 06 to the RR 08.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Whoever uploaded that is one super awesome and very sexy dude. Better than anyone on here that's for sure.


I'm guessing it's your channel. It was on the same page as the Henry v. Benoit match that RW and you had given me, so I said whatever. Probably should have connected the dots.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye that's my channel . Got plenty more stuff on there too but most of it is private to avoid it getting deleted and shit.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Aye that's my channel . Got plenty more stuff on there too but most of it is private to avoid it getting deleted and shit.


Only the best of the best (and Cody) get to access that shit.



ATF said:


> Meng and Regal commentators;


Bitch you ever try to give someone else my spot again and I'll gut you. However if Meng's taking my spot and not Andy's well he can go right ahead because I quite like having all my body parts.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Empty arena match bar Craig and Andy. In fact, empty arena match and those guys can get pished and do commentary :lmao.


I will only do this if I get one of those hats with the straws in them and said hat is filled with Cointreau, we got a deal?

EDIT: Fuck it I'm going to buy some Cointreau, tonight might be the return of DRUNK CRAIG WATCHES WRESTLING.

I mean drunk Craig did that last night and as usual adored Kudo/Toyoda barbed wire but you know, this time I'll actually try and write something.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Deal.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Craig said:


> Bitch you ever try to give someone else my spot again and I'll gut you. However if Meng's taking my spot and not Andy's well he can go right ahead because I quite like having all my body parts.


You demand too much money, so I removed you from the show until you further ask for less, from there both you and Andy return to the table alongside Regal and Meng. You have to accept that offer right there - A 4-MAN ANNOUNCE TABLE. With Regal and Meng. I'm a better booker than every guy on BTB combined :kobe


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

ATF said:


> You demand too much money, so I removed you from the show until you further ask for less, from there both you and Andy return to the table alongside Regal and Meng. You have to accept that offer right there - A 4-MAN ANNOUNCE TABLE. With Regal and Meng. I'm a better booker than every guy on BTB combined :kobe


That doesn't beat my BTB back in 2007 when Shelton Benjamin's mama accused Viscera of kidnapping and raping her. (This s genuinely a thing, seriously, look it up).

Now someone give me a PPV to watch, asap. Well not asap, I'm going to buy bread and Cointreau but you know, it'd be kinda nice to have that when I come back.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

No Mercy 2006 for your most honorable interest.

Oh, and the overall spectacle and SPOTZ of Cal/Hayley sound a bit more exciting than Momma Benjamin accusing Viscera of _eviscerating_ her genitals :troll

Oh, and SPOTZ.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Would love to see an extended program featuring Sheamus and Barrett. We could see some good promos and great matches. Perhaps make it centered around the IC Title. Anyone else with me on this?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd rather see Sheamus Vs Cesaro, Bryan, Undertaker, Rollins, Ambrose, Reigns, Swagger, Big Show, Zayn, McIntyre, Cena, Wyatt, Harper, Rowan, Brad Maddox and Little Jimmy before anything with Barrett.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

ATF said:


> No Mercy 2006 for your most honorable interest.
> 
> Oh, and the overall spectacle and SPOTZ of Cal/Hayley sound a bit more exciting than Momma Benjamin accusing Viscera of _eviscerating_ her genitals :troll
> 
> Oh, and SPOTZ.


Oh thank you very much, I was expecting some insane level of hell but that's a good choice, not saw anything bar Regal/Benoit since it happened. Been meaning to get on Rey/Chavo for quite a while.

I forgot that I was going to a place called LIQUOR CITY with bulletproof glass so the chance of me getting a French liqueur were slim, however I got vodka and I am prepared!



Spoiler: big picture
















Annoyed my signage didn't come up better.

Anyway I'll get started on that in moment.

Don't know if I'd like a Barrett/Sheamus feud, their match on Raw was very good but it felt like they pulled out a PPV style match there, I couldn't see them having more than 2 more matches without it getting stale.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> I guess my style would be a mix of Undertaker'esque strikes, Benoit'esque lots of stuff (chops, suplexes, submissions), Mick Foley's in-ring psychology, and a little touch of martial arts and amateur here and there. Yeah, I'd be a do-it-all son of a bitch, eat your heart out Ric Flairs and Mitsuharu Misawas of the world 8*D


I would steal everything from Benoit. Snap, German & Northern Light Suplexes all there, chops being my main strike since I can't throw "worked punches" worth shit and Diving Headbutt plus the Sharpshooter as finisher.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pfft, says the guy about to watch No Mercy 06 aka WILLIAM REGAL'S PENIS ON LIVE PPV 06.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Sheamus/Barrett feud actually goes beyond the Raw match. They had two I believe Main Event matches, the first one in November 2012 and the second in May 2013. The latter I gave ****. It's, in few words, two Europeans beating and clubbing each other for 20 minutes non-stop. What's not to love? I'm looking at you Cal, and every other Barrett hater out there :side:

Oh, and C2D, if I weren't you, I wouldn't steal the Diving Headbutt from Benoit. Steal Bryan's much safer version if you will. Just saying.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If I were to steal someone's Diving Headbutt, it would most assuredly be Harley Race's drunken wobbly one. That shit was so bossy, perfect move for a guy like Race.


I JUSU FIGURED OUT CAL'S FINISHING MOVE!! Missing Link from WCCW's diving head butt. That is totally Cal's move, except he delivers it to the upper right hand region of his opponents scrotum. No getting up from that.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Nah, Cal's finisher is probably what I like to call the *Calabama Slam* INSERT CAL SMILEY HERE


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd love to see Barrett/Sheamus feud. Have their May Main Event match from last year and their match from Raw this Monday both at ****. The two have too much chemistry to not feud at some point.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Can't wait until Barrett wins the IC title and jobs in every single non-title match he has like his last reign. :barrett



ATF said:


> Oh, and C2D, if I weren't you, I wouldn't steal the Diving Headbutt from Benoit. Steal Bryan's much safer version if you will. Just saying.


My knees are fucked, so I can't do the Bryan version even if I wanted to.  I think I'll stick to the real thing and recreate the iconic image that is my current sig.  Besides, I wouldn't use the move in every single match cause that would be overkill.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Now that I think about it, give me Cesaro/Barrett before Money in the Bank, that would be some shit to see


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I want to see Barrett/Cesaro, but I also wonder if their styles will mesh? Have they ever fought each other? I know they had some interaction in a four-way US Title match from... like, I wanna say late 2012-early 2013, but outside of that, I can't recall them ever trading blows.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

**Tasteless and dark joke incoming**
Yeah C2D, it would most certainly be *overkill* if you used Benoit's Diving Headbutt in every single match.

wen

Oh, and Barrett/Cesaro sounds recipe for :mark: . I don't care if he jobs after he wins the IC Title, as long as he's doing something :side:


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Beach Bash 92

Brian Pillman vs Johnny Flamingo ***1/2
Marcus Alexander Bagwell vs Greg Valentine ***1/4
Sting vs Cactus Jack ****
Ricky Steamboat vs Rick Rude ****1/2
Dustin Rhodes, Barry Windham & Nikita Koloff vs Steve Austin, Bobby Eaton & Arn Anderson ***1/2
The Steiners vs Dr. Death & Terry Gordy ***3/4

Perfect event. Really digged Sting/Cactus and would of liked to of seen them work with weaponzzz. Unorthodox matches always brought out the best of Sting in my opinion. I don't think there is a traditional match of his that I really think highly off.

I think Rude/Steamboat is perfect. Totally above the laws of exceptional. But the flaws of this rating system comes through. I don't think it's equal to some of the matches I hold at the 3/4* or perfect mark. Bleh.

The tags left a little more to be desired. Six man felt heatless and to be frank, unremarkable considering who was in it. But it's still great. And the main event dragged. I felt like it went 30 minutes to keep Williams/Gordy strong and the Steiners getting beat down doesn't take my interest. Their offence is their best quality.


Anyone got a select hand of best 92 WCW TV matches? Want to split up the PPV run before I get into GAB 92.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I think Barrett/Sheamus work work better than Barrett/Cesaro, both in ring and promo-wise. Barrett and Sheamus going at one another on the mic could be great.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't really think Sheamus is more than "fine" on the mic I guess. I'd mark for a Barrett/Regal mic brawl, though. Or Barrett/Ambrose. Or Regal/Ambrose. Or any combo of Barrett/Regal/Ambrose/Heyman/Zeb/Wyatt/HHH. :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It sucks that the loss to Barrett has single handedly ruined the momentum one can gain by beating Sheamus. Beating him doesn't mean anything even if you're a midcarder now. The big deal about beating Sheamus was the surprise factor, now after Barrett has done it completely clean, I am actually _expecting_ it.



ATF said:


> **Tasteless and dark joke incoming**
> Yeah C2D, it would most certainly be *overkill* if you used Benoit's Diving Headbutt in every single match.
> 
> wen


Is that Owen smiley implying a fall joke somewhere? :lol

On a more serious note, there was more than just the headbutt that ruined him. I doubt someone will go crazy just because they perform the flying headbutt as a signature move.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Beach Blast 92 is the shit. It's hard to imagine a more under appreciated wrestler all time than Terry Gordy. 




ATF said:


> Ending: double DQ. Triple H comes and Pedigrees everyone, including Taker and Meng.
> 
> :HHH2 :troll


I legit LOLd :lmao



Hayley Seydoux said:


> There can only be one. :homer2


I think you guys should wait until Wrestlemania. Maybe some stare downs and bump a rooski. One of you costs the other one the MitB briefcase, one of you eliminates the other at the rumble, etc. Cmon you cant shotgun a feud of this magnitude. :vince$



Choke2Death said:


> lol, it's funny to imagine ourselves as wrestlers. :lol
> 
> I know what I'd come out to and my style would involve a bunch of takedown attempts and a million different submission moves attempted until one works. I would also have an out of place diving headbutt in my arsenal.


I always thought I'd make a great douchey heel manager. 



The Hitman said:


> Until he squashed Austin in WCW. :cuss:


Seriously that was ridiculous. That Stunning Steve Austin guy won't be a star though. :argh:



RFWHC said:


> Would love to see an extended program featuring Sheamus and Barrett. We could see some good promos and great matches. Perhaps make it centered around the IC Title. Anyone else with me on this?


I could see this happening.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Eh, I doubt they'll be jobbing Sheamus out left and right after this. They have stopped booking him as strongly lately, but he's still one of the more established guys on the roster, and I can't see them doing that to him at this point.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Is that Owen smiley implying a fall joke somewhere? :lol


Very, very subtly, YES it'd imply a fall joke... sort-of. Actually, I used Owen's smiley as just a grin. :side:

No disrespect to Owen, though. I actually preferred him in a lot of ways over Bret, and his demise was a very tragic one. Basically equal in the wrestling department + good mic work, charisma and a different and, let's say, more colorful aura to him than the one of Bret. Oh, and his theme was so fucking badass.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

We'll have to wait and see how Sheamus is booked from here on out, but him losing clean to Barrett doesn't automatically ruin him or even make it predictable he's going to lose.

Now if next week he loses to someone, then the week after he loses, then the week after he loses... then yeah, it'll get predictable and any credibility he has will be flushed down the toilet.

He lost to Barrett who just recently returned under a new gimmick. It's not like he lost clean to Sandow, who's only won one match this year.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sheamus and Barrett had promo battles before, and they were terrible. I like Sheamus, but it's good to see guys like Del Rio, Bryan, the more superior Ziggler, and Barrett get clean wins over him. Now where is Sandow?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hope they at least turn Sheamus heel soon and get him back in big feuds again. We need someone else for Bryan because Kane is clearly just a filler match while Evolution are dealing with Shield, and if we do indeed get ANOTHER fecking Orton/Bryan PPV match and then Bryan/Batista we'll need someone GOOD to go up against Bryan again and Sheamus is just that guy. He's better than, well, most of the roster right now. Especially in terms of "main eventers" or guys who are moved between main event and upper mid card anyway. In fact I'm struggling to think of anyone better who is full time. Orton on his A game maybe, but his A game is more of a Rare game these days. Batista? LOL. Del Rio? LOL. Kane? LOL. Henry? Well Henry is probably better but where the fuck is he these days? Cena? Yeah Cena is all round better but fuck him . Uhhhh... everyone else is either not as good or not quite made it to the main event level (Cesaro, Shield in singles).


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Sheamus and Barrett had promo battles before, and they were terrible. I like Sheamus, but it's good to see guys like Del Rio, Bryan, the more superior Ziggler, and Barrett get clean wins over him. Now where is Sandow?


I've completely given up on Ziggler and Sandow, at this point. And I still love Ziggler, he's my favorite guy in the company, right now (since Punk left), but I honestly just don't see him getting a real push at any point in the future. WWE have given up on him and have no idea why the fuck they did, b/c he was really damn over during the summer. Both Ziggler and Sandow are now jobbing on Superstars, and it sucks.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

RFWHC said:


> Eh, I doubt they'll be jobbing Sheamus out left and right after this. They have stopped booking him as strongly lately, but he's still one of the more established guys on the roster, and I can't see them doing that to him at this point.





#BadNewsSanta said:


> We'll have to wait and see how Sheamus is booked from here on out, but him losing clean to Barrett doesn't automatically ruin him or even make it predictable he's going to lose.
> 
> Now if next week he loses to someone, then the week after he loses, then the week after he loses... then yeah, it'll get predictable and any credibility he has will be flushed down the toilet.
> 
> He lost to Barrett who just recently returned under a new gimmick. It's not like he lost clean to Sandow, who's only won one match this year.



Usually when the start jobbing a babface like this, it's leading to a heel turn. Which really doesn't make a TON of sense but hey, that's how WWE operates. If you win the MitB or have a big heel/face turn planned, they think it's logical to job that person to other guys to give them a "rub" since the guy losing is headed for a solid push anyhow. That's such a backward way of thinking, I will never understand it.

Maybe they are gonna turn Cesaro face and Sheamus heel and have them feud? Over what though? Regardless, I just want to see Sheamus wrestle as often as possible. Don't particularly care if he loses or wins, he's just a bad ass in the ring. He's perfect for an upper mid card workhorse spot.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan/Sheamus... so mixed on it. The match will be great I'm sure, but the feud would be terrible. Sheamus has never been a good face or heel, and his mic work is terrible... and Bryan isn't the guy to be carrying a feud on his own. As long as it's just filler for Bryan's reign and Sheamus goes back to doing nothing afterwards, it's all good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, everybody should just give up on any hopes over Ziggler or Sandow. Shame, WWE. Shame.

You know what would be great? If Curt Hawkins was repackaged and respected. There, I had to say it.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Just saw this in another thread:

x1n7mcx_bad-news-barrett-at-hall-of-fame-2014_sport?start=0

Barrett is so great. :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Someone convince me that Barrett isn't a worthless sack of shite. Post me links of his best matches (LINKS, not embedded videos, they don't work for me) in HIGH QUALITY (I ain't sitting through a Barrett match in low shitty quality lol), and I'll go on a Wade Barrett spree 2morrow.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

This thread should be renamed as the *Official Wade "Bad News" Barrett/Other Shit Discussion Thread*.

:barrett

EDIT: Cal, for your interest:

vs Bryan, SummerSlam 2011 and Steel Cage
vs Sheamus, Main Event November 2012, May 2013 and Raw 2014
vs Cena, Hell In A Cell 2010

Others worth a mention:
vs Orton, TLC 2011, Falls Count Anywhere and No DQ
vs Ziggler, Raw 2014
vs Sheamus, Smackdown January 2013
vs Jericho vs Miz, Raw 2013
vs Axel vs Miz, Payback 2013

Links for his two absolute best:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xl1egs_wwe-summerslam-2011-wade-barrett-vs-daniel-bryan_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x10dvsm_sheamus-vs-wade-barrett-main-event-05-29-13_sport

Those are his best right there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Brian Pillman ECW Debut Promo (ECW Cyberslam 02.17.1996)*

Uncensored promo

x1rrm3v


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Pillman promo? Gotta watch!

My first taste of his work has been his WWF return in 1997 when he joins the Hart Foundation and his promos so far have been awesome. I'm sure he's even better in his peak.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Hope they at least turn Sheamus heel soon and get him back in big feuds again. We need someone else for Bryan because Kane is clearly just a filler match while Evolution are dealing with Shield, and if we do indeed get ANOTHER fecking Orton/Bryan PPV match and then Bryan/Batista we'll need someone GOOD to go up against Bryan again and Sheamus is just that guy. He's better than, well, most of the roster right now. Especially in terms of "main eventers" or guys who are moved between main event and upper mid card anyway. In fact I'm struggling to think of anyone better who is full time. Orton on his A game maybe, but his A game is more of a Rare game these days. Batista? LOL. Del Rio? LOL. Kane? LOL. Henry? Well Henry is probably better but where the fuck is he these days? Cena? Yeah Cena is all round better but fuck him . Uhhhh... everyone else is either not as good or not quite made it to the main event level (Cesaro, Shield in singles).


Sheamus/Bryan for the title will be awesome.

But really, Orton has been on his A-game for most of his run after TLC, what will it take for you to finally look at him positively? 

I can definitely take another Orton/Bryan match because it looks like they have finally found their chemistry and given 20 minutes, they'll likely put on another match on par with Raw from 16/12 and 3/2.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

"i'm Brian 'fuckin' Pillman"


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've only cared for him in about 5 matches in the last couple of years. Once he's more consistent I might look at him with a higher opinion .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> "i'm Brian 'fuckin' Pillman"


That's exactly where I was as I read this post. 



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I've only cared for him in about 5 matches in the last couple of years. Once he's more consistent I might look at him with a higher opinion .


And haven't these five matches been in the past couple of months? 

But really, after TLC, the only match he's had that wasn't any good is the one with UC and considering who he's facing, you can't even blame him for it! Oh and most of you don't like the Rumble match with Cena. Still, that's just 2 out of 14-15 in total. Btw, don't even tell me the WM triple threat was "crappy" when you gave it 3 stars.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

5 matches in 5 months ain't a good thing . Not when you are champion (or were, LOL) and main eventing shows including WM (which was 90% Bryan tbh, Batista was 0% and Orton/HHH/Stephanie made up the rest), then it's REALLY not good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Isn't 5 also the exact number of matches he's had that you've actually watched?  Since your rambles often suggest that you skip through a lot, including his matches unless it's a special occasion. Plus, it's not like he's wrestled every week (not counting house shows). I went to profightdb and in total, he's had about 15 matches at most this year. And that triple threat was 50% Bryan, 25% Orton and 25% HHH/SteFAPnie/Batista. 



That Pillman promo was hilarious. :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Desecrated said:


> Anyone got a select hand of best 92 WCW TV matches? Want to split up the PPV run before I get into GAB 92.


*Arn Anderson v. Dustin Rhodes, SN 1/4/92*
Rick Rude/Larry Zbyszko/Arn Anderson v. Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat/Ron Simmons, WorldWide 1/11/92
Ricky Steamboat v. Steve Austin, SN 1/18/92
Bobby Eaton/Rick Rude/Steve Austin v. Ricky Steamboat/Sting/Marcus Bagwell, Pro 1/18/92
Bobby Eaton v. Dustin Rhodes, Pro 2/1/92
Rick Rude v. Brian Pillman, Pro 2/15/92
*Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko/Rick Rude v. Sting/Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat, SN 2/22/92*
Ricky Steamboat v. Cactus Jack, WorldWide 2/22/92
Ricky Steamboat v. Arn Anderson, Pro 3/28/92
Bobby Eaton v. Ricky Steamboat, WorldWide 4/4/92 
Arn Anderson/Rick Rude/Steve Austin v. Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat, Pro 4/4/92
*Arn Anderson v. Big Josh, SN 5/2/92*
Dustin Rhodes v. Bobby Eaton, Power Hour 5/8/92
Dustin Rhodes v. Bobby Eaton, WorldWide 5/9/92
Steve Austin v. Barry Windham, SN 5/9/92
*Arn Anderson/Larry Zbyszko/Bobby Eaton v. Ricky Steamboat/Dustin Rhodes/Nikita Koloff, SN 5/23/92*
Rick Rude v. Dustin Rhodes, WorldWide 5/30/92
*Arn Anderson v. Barry Windham, SN 6/6/92*
Steve Austin v. Barry Windham, WorldWide 6/13/92
Rick Rude v. Nikita Koloff, WorldWide 7/25/92
Vader v. Ron Simmons, Saturday Night 8/8/92
Cactus Jack v. Dustin Rhodes, Main Event 8/30/92
Cactus Jack v. Dustin Rhodes, Main Event 9/6/92
Jake Roberts v. Dustin Rhodes, SN 9/26/92
Steve Williams/Terry Gordy v. the Steiners, WorldWide 9/26/92
Rick Rude/Bobby Eaton/Arn Anderson v. Sting/the Steiners, WorldWide 10/3/92
*Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes v. Steve Williams/Terry Gordy, SN 10/3/92*
Rick Rude v. Barry Windham, SN 11/7/92
Vader v. Dustin Rhodes, SM 11/21/92


Matches I think are the better of the bunch are underlined. God-tier are in bold. The rest still range from ''awesomely fun six minutes'' to ''very, very good''. You might like them in a different order, though. Like, I know some aren't THAT fond of stuff like Arn/Josh, somewhat because of it's length.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

ATF said:


> This thread should be renamed as the *Official Wade "Bad News" Barrett/Other Shit Discussion Thread*.
> 
> :barrett
> 
> ...


Great list, you have it covered.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Everyone that's bored and needs something to watch (which you shouldn't because Yeah1993 just posted a fucking AWESOME list of matches) feast your eyes on true greatness. One of my all time favorite matches to watch, definitely in my personal top 15 favorites:

www.dailymotion.com/video/xe8us_vader-vs-dustin-rhodes_news


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> *Brian Pillman ECW Debut Promo (ECW Cyberslam 02.17.1996)*
> 
> Uncensored promo
> 
> x1rrm3v


"What's a smart mark? A mark with a high IQ?" Awesome stuff (Y)

Brian was great on the mic. He really was a loose cannon, or at least played the gimmick well. Joey Styles freaking out as Pillman threatened to pull out his dick and piss in the ring :lmao

Also, the crowd chanting "Bishoff takes it up the ass! Doo-da! Doo-da!" :lmao :lmao


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Holy shit, just watched that promo, loved it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Everyone that's bored and needs something to watch (which you shouldn't because Yeah1993 just posted a fucking AWESOME list of matches) feast your eyes on true greatness. One of my all time favorite matches to watch, definitely in my personal top 15 favorites:
> 
> www.dailymotion.com/video/xe8us_vader-vs-dustin-rhodes_news


probably one of my five favourite matches ever. Would definitely make my desert island top ten, at least.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> This thread should be renamed as the *Official Wade "Bad News" Barrett/Other Shit Discussion Thread*.
> 
> :barrett
> 
> ...


Cal skip the two triple threat matches. _(Payback match SUCKED on the rewatch; can't believe I thought it was "fun"_) And the Ziggler match is nothing special whatsoever. Wade had a better match vs Bo Dallas on NXT last year that's worth more of a mention to convince someone. Wade vs Justin Gabriel for the Intercontinental Championship is too. And HOW aren't all the matches vs Danielson listed? All of them are good. Even the sub-two minute match. Pretty sure Wade beating the tar out of Tyson Kidd a few times is good stuff too.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Brian Pillman for Hall of Fame please!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Cal skip the two triple threat matches. _(Payback match SUCKED on the rewatch; can't believe I thought it was "fun"_) And the Ziggler match is nothing special whatsoever. Wade had a better match vs Bo Dallas on NXT last year that's worth more of a mention to convince someone. Wade vs Justin Gabriel for the Intercontinental Championship is too. And HOW aren't all the matches vs Danielson listed? All of them are good. Even the sub-two minute match. Pretty sure Wade beating the tar out of Tyson Kidd a few times is good stuff too.


I'll be skipping all the matches bar the Main Event match from last year since that's the only one I have a link to (seen Vs Bryan SS and I own the Bluray so no need for a link anyway), and I ain't going out of my way for Wade. I HAVE seen the payback triple threat... wasn't it you that asked me to watch it after I posted some random shit on the rest of the event? I posted it on the other site so it was just for you and the other ELITE peeps .

Edit: Yep, definitely watched it JUST FOR YOU <3. First line was "Fine, I'll watch it for your amusement, Cody." .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I'll be skipping all the matches bar the Main Event match from last year since that's the only one I have a link to (seen Vs Bryan SS and I own the Bluray so no need for a link anyway), and I ain't going out of my way for Wade.


So you ask others to show you why Wade Barrett isn't a useless sack of shit but you still go out of your way to skip the recommendations just because you think they will suck?  And I'm saying that all while being with you on the "Barrett sucks" wagon.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Did you even READ my post? I said I'm not going to watch anything UNLESS I'M PROVIDED LINKS. I'll watch what's recommended so long as I ain't gotta go out of my way to find shit myself. Right now Wade ain't worth it unless proven otherwise .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Alright then. :lmao

I hate the match-up that reads Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett with every fiber of my being but even I was surprised at how much I enjoyed their No DQ match on Smackdown. Here's the link for Ginger Callamus.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Alright then. :lmao
> 
> I hate the match-up that reads Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett with every fiber of my being but even I was surprised at how much I enjoyed their No DQ match on Smackdown. Here's the link for Ginger Callamus.



I saw that from the Best of Raw/SD set. Definitely pretty solid stuff. Booker was wayyyy over the top on commentary though if I remember correctly. He said something like "We will all remember where we were for this match. Wade Barrett, a future Hall of Famer!" :lmao. Think it got like ***1/4 from me.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Alright then. :lmao
> 
> I hate the match-up that reads Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett with every fiber of my being but even I was surprised at how much I enjoyed their No DQ match on Smackdown. Here's the link for Ginger Callamus.



Really solid, Booker on commentary is either fpalm or :mark:, and the chair-RKO spot, this match is a good _*** 1/2_.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

At least Booker had some enthusiasm for the match. Cole was at his absolute worst in 2011 and thank God for Booker or else I wouldn't even tolerate WWE commentary.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Yeah, I was tolerant towards Booker and actually somewhat enjoyed his commentary. Same with JBL when he returned in 2012, but his commentary got pretty bad later. 

Great sig SEJ :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

BARRETT MATCHES... I would recommend some for Cal, but he wants links, and I suck at finding links.  I think most of, if not all of the ones I would've said have been said though. The last couple of weeks, Barrett's matches with Ziggler and especially the Sheamus one, have been great. Out of the million matches with Orton, the No DQ match C2D mentioned and the tables match at TLC was really good. He also had a good match with Kofi on the Raw after SVS 2012, and I thought their TLC PPV title match was decent as well. 

His best singles match imo though is his match with Sheamus on Main Event in May of last year. Has a few great matches with Bryan in 2011 to go along with the really good-great couple he had with Bryan last year... and a great match with Cena at HIAC, back when he really did suck in the ring. 

Even as a Barrett mark, his match catalog isn't exactly filled with loads of great matches... and he's had loads of stinkers. Here's the thing though, I'm not, and I don't know a Barrett mark who's a fan of the guy for his in ring work anyway, so if you're looking to become a fan or start to somewhat appreciate the the guy based off his matches... well,


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Alright Cal, if you don't like this, then your mother should slap you across the face.

EDIT: Since you want to be a pedantic cunt, here is a link instead of an embed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ghKA5KJwdw


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So I've got a total of 1 Barrett match to watch so far. Yay. Should be easy enough to get through since it's against Sheamus.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Damn, Cal just no sold funnyfaces. :lol


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I've always enjoyed Barrett/Sheamus matches. They were good ol' fashion, stiff fights (Y)


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

The next thread should just be entirely dedicated to Barrett, he has improved a ton in the ring in the last year, almost makes you forget his singles run in 2009 (_...almost_)

Anyways, making my way through more WWE TV today as I have almost watched everything WWE wise this year save a few Smackdown matches and the two pimped Bryan/Kane matches. All I can say is that I am going to miss The Real Americans, they had some gems the first two months of the year vs Show/Mysterio, vs Mysterio/Cara, vs E/Henry that are some of the easiest matches to sit through this year. Not to mention the pimped stuff like vs Christian/Sheamus, vs The Shield and the Fatal Four Way Tag from Mania.

This year in general the WWE has been on fire, consistency everywhere. 

On a side note, I am thinking about taking on a little side project once our new blog launches, and I wanted to know who you guys would be more interested in, the project would probably be a Top 25 for said guy.

Vader
Jericho
Guerrero
Cena
Hansen
Dustin Rhodes
Henry
Regal

Just wanted to get a bit of feedback, I started a Vader project last year but due to various things never completed it, although it is practically done now. Also, if you have a suggestion for another guy, just tell me, I am open to suggestions!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It would take eons to do this, but a Terry Funk project would be the greatest thing ever. But out of that list, I would love one done for Hansen. Will it include his work in Japan? Oh of course it will. Silly me. I actually remember you talking about doing a Vader project.

Mysterio/Swagger from MITB 2010 is still good, but in this watch, I noticed Mysterio acting very inconsistent with his selling. Sometimes he sells the ankle really well, and other times he's running around like Usain Bolt. Still a really good match in a stacked PPV (minus the main event). And then the post-match festivities :homer


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yes let us all dedicate this thread to Wade Barrett who finally may not suck after years of sucking. 

You should do a Too Cold Scorpio list. This should be a TOO COLD SCORPIO thread.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yes let us all dedicate this thread to Wade Barrett who finally may not suck after years of sucking.
> 
> You should do a Too Cold Scorpio list. This should be a TOO COLD SCORPIO thread.


Even better, GOLDBERG LIST, GOLDBERG THREAD, GOLDBERG FAN FORUM


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, do a Goldberg list. You'll be done in three days.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You'll be done in three minutes.

God damn, thank goodness I chose not to study for finance in favor of watching Butch Reed vs. JYD. That Ghetto Street Fight was glorious. Unlike the other two or three matches I watched between them where they tried to have a wrestling match, this was a glorious brawl. That piledriver on the concrete by Reed, and then later on that piledriver by JYD in return. Those brass knucks. That dress shirt! That finish which almost was executed perfectly but was a very cool concept. ******


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Everyone's talking about this Reed/JYD match and I remember it being like the 25th best Butch Reed match on the Mid-South set and not even JYD's best match on the set. Hell, it wasn't even on the listing and was just a Bonus match. Maybe it wasn't in full, IDR.


The lesson here is, watch more Butch Reed. This should be a BUTCH REED thread.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Seeing Yeah post the dates on those WCW matches from '92 made me come up with a totally off the wall idea. If you go to profightdb.com and search by date it'll show you every wrestling event that took place on the date you searched. I'm gonna search my birthday (which is January 15th) and watch a bunch/all the good shit that took place on my birthday. It shows stuff from all major promotions; WWE, WCW, TNA, ROH, ECW, etc. but it only shows things that were taped or live that night. Idk, just seems like it's a cool idea. Seeing 1992 sparked up the idea since it's my birth year. Check it out fellas!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ramdom but fun upload:

*1-2-3 Kid vs Hakushi (WWF Monday Night RAW 02.05.1996)*

x1rvddl


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Tanner1495 said:


> The next thread should just be entirely dedicated to Barrett, he has improved a ton in the ring in the last year, almost makes you forget his singles run in 2009 (_...almost_)
> 
> Anyways, making my way through more WWE TV today as I have almost watched everything WWE wise this year save a few Smackdown matches and the two pimped Bryan/Kane matches. All I can say is that I am going to miss The Real Americans, they had some gems the first two months of the year vs Show/Mysterio, vs Mysterio/Cara, vs E/Henry that are some of the easiest matches to sit through this year. Not to mention the pimped stuff like vs Christian/Sheamus, vs The Shield and the Fatal Four Way Tag from Mania.
> 
> ...



You literally cannot go wrong with any of the names you listed. However, if I were to rank them on level of interest for me personally, it would go:

1. Eddie
2. Regal
3. Vader
4. Dustin Rhodes
5. Mark Henry
6. Stan Hansen
7. Chris Jericho
8. John Cena

So either Eddie, Regal, or Vader would be excellent . Or better yet, do them all:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Ultimate Warrior vs Randy Savage (WWF Summerslam 1992)*

'Tagged Classic Version - Unedited' Includes pre/Post match promos

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3IaU7i2LYcnYg7gajx (Private)

* By request


----------



## Certified G (Feb 1, 2011)

Just picked up these dvd's for 5 euro's each:

Wrestlemania 16
King Of The Ring 2000
Royal Rumble 2000
Royal Rumble 2002
No Mercy 2001
Summerslam 1999

Some pretty cool and old titles to add to my collection. The WWE Network hasn't launched here yet so having the dvd's is the way to go for me right now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched the classic HBK/Mankind match at IYH: Mind Games. Early on in the match Shawn goes to the top rope for a Moonsault or cross body, but Mick is still on the other corner of the ring so Shawn gas to abandon the move.

He did looked pissed, was this planned anyone know or was it just mistimed? 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Hitman said:


> Watched the classic HBK/Mankind match at IYH: Mind Games. Early on in the match Shawn goes to the top rope for a Moonsault or cross body, but Mick is still on the other corner of the ring so Shawn gas to abandon the move.
> 
> He did looked pissed, was this planned anyone know or was it just mistimed?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


It was intentional to take the piss out of the actual miss-timed spot from Vader/HBK at SS .


----------



## badrboyka (Apr 28, 2014)

THE BEST MATCH EVER NO MERCY 2002 BROCK LESNAR VS UNDERTAKER MUST SEE IT


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> It was intentional to take the piss out of the actual miss-timed spot from Vader/HBK at SS .


Ohhhhhh. Should have realized really. 

Watched the Shawn Michaels: From The Vault DVD, still one of the best sets there is IMO. Such an excellent match listing.

Watched HIAC with Taker last, first time seeing it in a good few months, forgot about the piledriver from HBK on the steps, fuck i love this match even more every time i watch it.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

In Your House V


*Razor Ramon & Marty Jannetty vs. Sid & The Kid*
Sid really should just stick to tag matches. He’s terrible in single matches but when he can tag in and out he actually adds a lot to the match with his power moves. Nothing here was too flashy but you had a heel tea that worked together well against some talented faces. I really liked that both teams essentially had the same team dynamic with one smaller guy and one bigger guy. You got the impression from both sides that they wanted to avoid getting their smaller guy alone in the ring with a the big. The Kid was just afraid of Ramon, which made sense as they had been feuding for months at this point. Everything here worked, the little guys took great bumps from the big guys while the big guys were still willing to sell for the smaller ones. Good match.
*****



*Ahmed Johnson vs. Buddy Landell* 
This 1 minutes match what was part of a 10-15 minute which was just the worst thing you will ever see. Jeff Jarrett makes his returns, Dean Douglas is there, Lawler thinks it’s a great segment. But it’s terrible, like I have nothing good to say about any of what I saw while watching all of this. Johnson threw Landell onto the top rope, threw him off, and hit the Pearl River Plunge for the win. After the terrible match Douglas and Lawler beat up Johnson with a bunch of chair shots that Johnsons no sells and then there is the most awkward chase scene ever. I hated this segment so much.
*DUD*



_Hog Pen Match_
*Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Henry Godwin*
This actually isn’t terrible. Yeah the gimmick is stupid but it was fun to see Triple H playing a cowardly heel getting his ass kicked. Triple H was more than just a cowardly heel though, he was smart. When they were near the pen and he was in trouble he would retreat to the ring. He used the pen as a weapon when given the chance and was just clever in using his surroundings. Even though the gimmick was stupid it was stupid in a funny way. I watched the whole thing and I was left thinking that it was an enjoyable experience. I do think that a lot of the entertainment value has to do with what Triple H would go on to do which made seeing him in this position really funny.
***¼* 



*Owen Hart vs. Big Daddy Cool Diesel *
Owne got in a little bit of offense but it was largely an ass kicking from Nash. This was after the storyline where Shawn Michaels collapsed on Raw and Nash was trying to get revenge for his friend. He was also in the period where he was in the process of turning heel so him beating the shit out of Owen, shoving the ref, and getting DQed made sense. It was solid enough for what it was but there was just no offense from Owen and the match really suffered because of this.
**½ *



_Casket Match:_
*The Undertaker w/Paul Bearer vs. Mabel w/Mo*
I’m excited that this will be the last Mabel match I have to watch for a while. He’s just not very good. Undertaker gets in some offense at first but eventually Mabel takes control thanks to Mo. You get your basic Undertaker comeback where Mabel reveals how afraid of Undertaker he really is. There’s nothing good or entertaining about this. 
*½** 



_WWF Championship Match:_
*Bret Hart(c) vs. The British Bulldog w/Jim Cornette *
These two had this match in 1995 in a WWF ring? This was a war and I honestly think Bret put a lot of this together on the fly based on the lukewarm reactions that the match was getting at first. Bulldog started out with a very slow control segment where he wa just trying to wear down Bret. The crowd wasn’t into it very much and there were audible ECW chants during the first few minutes. Bret’s comeback was fantastic though and brought the crowd to life and turned this into something that you would never expect to see. 

The match turned into a war. There were some high impact moves before Bret goes headfirst into the steps and Bret starts bleeding buckets. I’m honestly not sure if Bret bladed or if he was busted open the hard way. He hit his head pretty hard on the steps but he landed to be hidden from Vince’s view and I think I might have saw him blade. Anyway it really added to the match and Bulldog hurting his leg also added to the match. You have Bret bleeding a ton, Bulldog covered in Bret’s blood, and you have Bulldog limping around. It was just a brutal scene and the match had a lot of life left. They just didn’t let up and when Bret tried to lock in the Sharpshooter you realized that previously lukewarm crowd was totally into the match. The kept going for a long time just beating the shit out of each other (Bret hit one of the best piledrivers you’re ever going to see). I also loved the callback to their Summerslam match near the end. 

This was just incredible and I love how different it is from most Bret Hart matches. I really believe that they put this together in response to the crowd which is just insanely impressive. Bret Hart’s second classic match in 2 months. Amazing.
*****½ *​


Yes this is a one match show but it's an amazing one match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Love that Bret/Bulldog match with all my heart. May not have been the bloodiest bladejob ever, but considering the situation and timing of it, it's one of the best. Mabel/Viscera is such a weird guy. His 90s run was filled with some of the worst wrestling ever, but when he came back as Big Daddy V, he was a lot more fun to watch. I think he works best against a small babyface rather than another big man because the pace slows down way too much with that other big guy. It's also why I'm not the biggest proponent of fatty fights. I understand why it's slow paced and I'm not asking for hurricanranas and moonsaults, but enough is enough at some point. If it's too slow and boring, then I'm turning it off. Sorry Kamala, but you just can't keep my interest.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Fatty fights are badass, alright... when the fatties in question are GOOD. There are plenty of good fatties (Vader, Henry, Show and Yokozuna are examples), but when the bad fatties are in action, oh Lord. To each their own, but I can say that in my opinion the HIGH fascination with fatties can get kinda overboard at points. It's the same story as the punches imo, though I can see better why there's a fascination with punches.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

HAHAHAHA @ all the fatties in that post.....amazing 

I want a :vader DVD set someday 

I'm starting to like the Bret/Davey match from IYH better than Summerslam. Both are great though. 

Cal is the Mil Mascaras of the board. Amazing no seller.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I find both Bret/Davey matches to be a little overrated. Especially SS. Both are still great matches but I don't consider either a classic or anything.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Best Davey Boy Smith match? Owen or Bret, or the fucking fabulous KOTR match with HBK.

Ive still gotta watch his matches against Vader, and some of his tag matches with Bret etc.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Top 10 Vader matches everyone/anyone? 

The HBK/Davey KotR match is just money. wen was hilarious as fuck on commentary. 

Atmosphere really helps the Bret/Davey SS match....obviously. I'm all for Royal Rumble being in London someday.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Tie between Owen Raw 3/3/97 and HBK... KOTR? I know they had 2 matches and one of them is usually shit on but I think I liked both and people were all like woah how you like that match its shit and I was all whoa you shut up whores I liked it so fuck off and they were like woah who you calling a whore you cunt face and I was like woah I ain't a cunt face you whores and they was all woah cunt face we ain't no whores you a whore and a cunt face and I cried for a week and HBK/Davey was pretty good so shut up.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hey Cal, have you watched the Barrett stuff yet? :ambrose2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ive heard shit talked about their IYH match, but i dont think ive watched it TBH.  (Davey/HBK).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've been having something of a good day today, didn't want to ruin it with Barrett matches. Might go watch the first HIAC again for the hell of it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

DAMMIT CAL. Sheamus/Barrett Main Event 5/9/2013.

IT'S HAMMERING AND CLUBBING NON-STOP FOR 20 FUCKING MINUTES. With SHEAMUS in it.

If you cared to watch those Taker/HHH matches, you SHOULD care to watch that match.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The Hitman said:


> Best Davey Boy Smith match? Owen or Bret, or the fucking fabulous KOTR match with HBK.
> 
> Ive still gotta watch his matches against Vader, and some of his tag matches with Bret etc.


The best Davey Boy match is his WOS match vs. Marty Jones


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

ATF said:


> DAMMIT CAL. Sheamus/Barrett Main Event 5/9/2013.
> 
> IT'S HAMMERING AND CLUBBING NON-STOP FOR 20 FUCKING MINUTES. With SHEAMUS in it.
> 
> If you cared to watch those Taker/HHH matches, you SHOULD care to watch that match.


Those Wade/Sheamus matches :banderas

Tonight is the night Wade should win the tournament :mark:


----------



## Wagg (Jan 10, 2012)

> We noted before that former WCW announcer Tony Schiavone was at WWE headquarters in Stamford earlier this year. It was believed that Schiavone was there to film footage for some of WWE's upcoming WCW DVD's and WrestlingDVDNews.com reports that one of those projects was likely WWE's "OMG! The Top 50 Incidents In WCW History" DVD and Blu-ray that comes out on August 12th. Below is the new synopsis:
> 
> "Relive iconic moments such as Hulk Hogan joining the n.W.o., Magnum T.A. and Tully Blanchard's infamous "I Quit Match", the Horsemen assaulting Dusty Rhodes and dozens of others in this countdown.
> 
> ...


this is going to be the greatest DVD in history of our sport. Hogan turning heel should definitely be #1. A top 50 backstage moments in WCW DVD would be awesome too. :duck


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

William Murderface said:


> Those Wade/Sheamus matches :banderas
> 
> *Tonight is the night Wade should win the tournament* :mark:


:mark: :mark:

On the subject of Barrett matches, and I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but I really, really enjoyed the cage match with Bryan last year.
Edit: Fuck I can't find the actual link.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Robbie said:


> The best Davey Boy match is his WOS match vs. Marty Jones


Really. Never heard if it, ill have to check it out. 

Last upload for a bit. Enjoy. 

*Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs Lord Steven Regal & Earl Robert Eaton (Blue Bloods) (WCW Main Event 1995.10.29)*

x1rxchf


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Top 10 Vader matches everyone/anyone?
> 
> The HBK/Davey KotR match is just money. wen was hilarious as fuck on commentary.
> 
> Atmosphere really helps the Bret/Davey SS match....obviously. I'm all for Royal Rumble being in London someday.



Best Vader Matches? I can do US only as I have only seen a dozen or so of his matches in Japan.

1. Vs Ricky Steamboat Human Cage WCW Saturday Night 1993 ****3/4
2. Vs Flair Starrcade 1993 ****3/4
3. Vs Sting Strap Match SuperBrawl III ****3/4
4. Vs Dustin Rhodes Clash of the Champions 1994 ****1/2 (my personal favorite Vader match)
5. Vs Owen Hart One Night Only 1996 ****1/4
(Tie)
5. Vs The Boss Spring Stampede 1994 ****1/4
6. Vs Sting Slamboree 1994 ****1/4
7. Vs The Undertaker Canadian Stampede 1997 ****
8. Vs Sting Starrcade 1992 ****
9. Vs The Undertaker Royal Rumble 1997 ****
10. Vs Cactus Jack Texas Death Match WCW Worldwide 1993 ***3/4

Special mention for his match vs Stan Hansen in Japan, you definitely need to see it. One incredible brawl and Vaders eye freaking pops out. Also go ahead and check out his match with Sting at Great American Bash 1992 so you can see the feud in its entirety. Oh, and his tag match with Bam Bam vs The Steiner's in Japan in 1991 is absolutely incredible definitely check that out.

One dream match I would have LOVED to see if the timing had been right would have been a Benoit vs Vader match. They JUST missed each other in WCW, but man that really could have been special if it was done around 1996.

Waiting for Cal to come in and shit all over my ratings and rankings as that seems to be his MO whenever I post a list


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Robbie said:


> The best Davey Boy match is his WOS match vs. Marty Jones


What is the date of that? Can't find fuck all about it.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The Hitman said:


> What is the date of that? Can't find fuck all about it.


Im a fucking idiot fpalm It was Dynamite, not Davey Boy. Shoot me

I dont know how I got them mixed up :lmao just a momentary lapse in concentration i guess. Watch the DYNAMITE match regardless because it rules the world


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rabid, you missing the Halloween Havoc match with Cactus from your list on purpose?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Robbie said:


> Im a fucking idiot fpalm It was Dynamite, not Davey Boy. Shoot me
> 
> I dont know how I got them mixed up :lmao just a momentary lapse in concentration i guess. Watch the DYNAMITE match regardless because it rules the world


Were you making thinking of Davey Boy Vs FINLAY? From 3/13/82?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Robbie said:


> Im a fucking idiot fpalm It was Dynamite, not Davey Boy. Shoot me
> 
> I dont know how I got them mixed up :lmao just a momentary lapse in concentration i guess. Watch the DYNAMITE match regardless because it rules the world


Thought so mate as all i could find is that Dynamite/Jones match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Highspots has a fantastic Dynamite Kid in Japan set that I own and love. They have a best of the Bulldogs set that I want to get as well. 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Best Vader Matches? I can do US only as I have only seen a dozen or so of his matches in Japan.
> 
> 1. Vs Ricky Steamboat Human Cage WCW Saturday Night 1993 ****3/4
> 2. Vs Flair Starrcade 1993 ****3/4
> ...


Yeah I've seen all of those :vader matches and they are great. How fun would that set be and maybe 1-2 matches from Japan thrown in there? Damn.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Rabid, you missing the Halloween Havoc match with Cactus from your list on purpose?



Yep, that match would make my top 15 for Vader in the US (that I've seen) just not my top 10. I gave it ***3/4 on last watch, but I prefer the shorter, sweeter, Texas "Tornado" Match they had on Worldwide to the brawl at HH. Both are excellent, as is the Saturday night match where Vader goes all Chris Brown on Foleys face.

And don't even get me started on a Vader documentary set. I've been pining for that set and a Vader HoF induction for YEARS. WWE really should get off their ass and create it already.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ill post the match listings to 3 Vader comps i have:



Spoiler: Best Of Vader



Best of Vader:

Disc 1
Leon White vs. Larry Zbyszko (AWA TV 12/2/86)
Leon White, Scott Hall & Greg Gagne vs. Larry Zbyzsko, Mr. Saito & Super Ninja (AWA TV 12/25/86)
Leon White vs. Brian Knobbs (AWA TV 1/87)
Bull Power vs. Otto Wanz (CWA 7/12/87) (FAIR VQ)
Big Van Vader vs. Antonio Inoki (NJ 12/27/87)
Big Van Vader vs. Antonio Inoki (NJ 2/7/88)
Big Van Vader vs. Tatsumi Fujinami (NJ 4/27/88)

Disc 2
Big Van Vader vs. Tatsumi Fujinami (NJ 6/26/88)
Big Van Vader vs. Antonio Inoki (NJ 7/29/88)
Big Van Vader & Black Tiger vs. Tatsumi Fujinami & Shiro Koshinaka (NJ 8/26/88)
Big Van Vader vs. Riki Choshu (NJ 1/16/89)
Big Van Vader & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Antonio Inoki & Tatsumi Fujinami (NJ 1/20/89)
Big Van Vader vs. Shinya Hashimoto (NJ 4/24/89)
Big Van Vader vs. Shinya Hashimoto (NJ 8/8/89)

Disc 3
Big Van Vader vs. Shinya Hashimoto (NJ 11/3/89)
Bull Power vs. Otto Wanz (CWA 12/22/89)
Big Van Vader vs. Stan Hansen (NJ 2/10/90)
Big Van Vader vs. Stan Hansen (NJ 6/12/90)
Bull Power vs. Otto Wanz (CWA 6/30/90)

Disc 4
Big Van Vader vs. The Z-Man (GAB 7/7/90)
Big Van Vader vs. Riki Choshu (NJ 8/19/90)
Big Van Vader vs. Shinya Hashimoto (NJ 9/14/90)
Big Van Vader vs. Tatsumi Fujinami (NJ 1/7/91)
Big Van Vader vs. Shinya Hashimoto (NJ 7/19/91)
Big Van Vader & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Keiji Muto & Masahiro Chono (NJ 7/29/91)
Big Van Vader vs. Tatsumi Fujinami (NJ 8/7/91)

Disc 5
Big Van Vader vs. Keiji Mutoh (NJ Handheld 8/10/91)
Big Van Vader & Mr. Hughes vs. Rick & Scott Steiner (Clash 18; 1/21/92)
Big Van Vader, Cactus Jack & Mr. Hughes vs. Sting, Rick & Scott Steiner (Main Event 2/9/92)
Big Van Vader & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Keiji Muto & Hiroshi Hase (NJ 3/1/92)
Big Van Vader & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Shinya Hashimoto & Masahiro Chono (NJ 3/9/92)
Big Van Vader & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Keiji Muto & Hiroshi Hase (NJ 5/1/92)

Disc 6
Big Van Vader & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Rick & Scott Steiner (NJ 6/26/92)
Big Van Vader vs. Sting (GAB 7/12/92)
Big Van Vader vs. Ron Simmons (Baltimore 8/2/92) (G VQ)
Big Van Vader, Rick Rude, Jake Roberts & Super Invader vs. Sting, Nikita Koloff, Rick & Scott Steiner (Elimination Match) (Clash 20; 9/2/92)
Big Van Vader vs. Nikita Koloff (Havoc 10/25/92)
Big Van Vader vs. Dustin Rhodes (WCWSN 11/21/92)
Big Van Vader vs. Nikita Koloff (Main Event 11/29/92)
Big Van Vader & Rick Rude vs. Ron Simmons & Sting (WCWSN 12/5/92)

Disc 7
Big Van Vader vs. Van Hammer (Strongest Arm Contest semi-finals) (Worldwide 12/12/92)
Big Van Vader vs. Sting (Starrcade 12/28/92)
Big Van Vader vs. Ron Simmons (Title Change Clip) (Baltimore 12/30/92)
Big Van Vader & Rick Rude vs. Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas (Main Event 1/2/93)
Big Van Vader, Paul Orndorff & Barry Windham vs. Dustin Rhodes, Sting & Cactus Jack (Thunderdome Cage) (Clash 22; 1/13/93)
Big Van Vader & Paul Orndorff vs. The Barbarian & Cactus Jack (Main Event 1/17/93)
Big Van Vader & Barry Windham vs. Sting & Shane Douglas (WCWSN 1/30/93)
White Castle of Fear Commercial
Big Van Vader & Harley Race Interview (WCWSN 2/20/93)
Big Van Vader vs. Sting (Strap Match) (SuperBrawl 2/21/93)

Disc 8
Big Van Vader vs. Cactus Jack (Main Event 3/07/93)
Big Van Vader vs. Sting (Dublin Handheld 3/17/93)
Big Van Vader vs. Cactus Jack (WCWSN 4/17/93)
Big Van Vader vs. Cactus Jack (WCWSN 4/24/93)
Super Vader vs. Tatsuo Nakano (UWFi 5/6/93)
Big Van Vader vs. Davey Boy Smith (Slamboree 5/23/93)
Big Van Vader vs. Ricky Steamboat (Worldwide 5/29/93)
Big Van Vader, Sid Vicious, & Rick Rude vs. Dustin Rhodes, Sting, & Davey Smith (Clash 23; 6/16/93)

Disc 9
Big Van Vader vs. Davey Boy Smith (Worldwide 07/10/93)
Beach Blast Commercial
Big Van Vader & Sid Vicious vs. Sting & Davey Boy Smith (Beach Blast 7/18/93) (Low Volume)
Super Vader vs. Kazuo Yamazaki (UWFi 8/13/93)
Big Van Vader vs. Davey Boy Smith (Clash 24; 8/18/93)
Big Van Vader vs. Ricky Steamboat (WCWSN 10/9/93)
Big Van Vader vs. Ricky Steamboat (Human Cage Match) (WCWSN 10/16/93)
Big Van Vader vs. Cactus Jack (Texas Death Match) (Havoc 10/24/93)

Disc 10
Big Van Vader vs. Ric Flair (Clash 25; 11/10/93)
Big Van Vader & Steve Austin vs. Ric Flair & Arn Anderson (WCWSN 11/13/93)
Super Vader vs. Nobuhiko Takada (UWFi 12/5/93)
Big Van Vader vs. Ric Flair (Starrcade 12/27/93)
Big Van Vader vs. Ric Flair (Thundercage Match) (SuperBrawl 2/20/94)

Disc 11
Big Van Vader vs. Ricky Steamboat (WCWSN 2/26/94)
Big Van Vader vs. Cactus Jack (Munich Handheld 3/16/94)
Big Van Vader vs. The Boss (Grudge Match) (Spring Stampede 4/17/94)
Big Van Vader vs. Cactus Jack (Texas Death Match) (Worldwide 04/30/94)
Big Van Vader vs. Sting (Slamboree 5/22/94)
Super Vader vs. Kiyoshi Tamura (UWFi 6/10/94)
Big Van Vader vs. The Guardian Angel (BATB 7/17/94)
Super Vader vs. Nobuhiko Takada (UWFi 8/18/94)

Disc 12
Big Van Vader vs. The Guardian Angel (Fall Brawl 9/18/94)
Big Van Vader vs. Sting (Fall Brawl 9/18/94)
Big Van Vader vs. Sting (WCWSN 10/15/94)
Big Van Vader vs. Dustin Rhodes (Clash 29; 11/16/94)
Super Vader vs. Gary Albright (UWFi 1/16/95) (Low Volume)
Big Van Vader vs. Hulk Hogan (SuperBrawl 2/19/95)

Disc 13
Big Van Vader vs. Hulk Hogan (Strap Match) (Uncensored 3/19/95)
Super Vader vs. Nobuhiko Takada (UWFi 4/20/95)
Big Van Vader & Ric Flair vs. Hulk Hogan & Randy Savage (Slamboree 5/21/95)
Big Van Vader vs. Hulk Hogan (Cage Match) (BATB 7/16/95)
Big Van Vader vs. Arn Anderson & Ric Flair (Clash 31; 8/4/95)

Disc 14
Big Van Vader vs. Antonio Inoki (NJ 1/4/96)
Vader vs. Razor Ramon (IYH: GFBE 4/28/96)
Vader, Owen Hart, & Davey Smith vs. Shawn Michaels, Ahmed Johnson & Sycho Sid (IYH: Intl. Incident 7/21/96)
Vader vs. Shawn Michaels (SS 8/18/96)

Disc 15
Vader vs. Sycho Sid (Buried Alive 10/20/96)
Vader vs. Bret Hart (RAW 1/6/97)
Vader vs. The Undertaker (Rumble 1/21/97)
Vader vs. The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (Final Four 2/16/97)
Vader & Mankind vs. Owen Hart & Davey Smith (WM 3/23/97)
Vader vs. Ken Shamrock (No Holds Barred) (Cold Day in Hell 5/11/97)

Disc 16
Vader vs. The Undertaker (Canadian Stampede 7/6/97)
Vader vs. Bret Hart (RAW 8/29/97)
Vader vs. Owen Hart (One Night Only 9/20/97)
Vader vs. Ken Shamrock (Cage Match) (Japan 9/28/97)
Vader & Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi & Johnny Ace (All Japan 5/1/98 )
Vader vs. Kane (Mask vs. Mask) (Over the Edge 5/31/98 )
Vader & Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (RWTL Finals) (All Japan 12/5/98 )

Disc 17
Vader vs. Kenta Kobashi (All Japan 1/15/99)
Vader vs. Akira Taue (All Japan 3/6/99)
Vader vs. Kenta Kobashi (Carnival Final) (All Japan 4/16/99)
Vader vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (All Japan 5/2/99)
Vader vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (All Japan 10/30/99)

Disc 18
Vader vs. Jun Akiyama (All Japan 1/23/00)
Vader vs. Toshiaki Kawada (All Japan 2/17/00)
Vader vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (NOAH 12/23/00)
Vader & Jun Akiyama vs. Kenta Kobashi & Akira Taue (NOAH 1/13/01)
Vader & 2 Cold Scorpio vs. Jun Akiyama & Akitoshi Saito (NOAH 10/19/01)
Vader vs. Jun Akiyama (NOAH 12/9/01)





Spoiler: Vader In Japan



Vader In Japan:

Disc One

Big Van Vader vs. IWGP Champion Tatsumi Fujinami (13:27, 6/26/88)
Big Van Vader vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (10:34, 9/12/88)
Big Van Vader vs. Shinya Hashimoto for the vacant IWGP Title (Vader wins title, 9:47, 4/24/89)
Big Van Vader & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Riki Choshu & Koji Kitao (18:00, 4/27/89)
Big Van Vader vs. IWGP champion Riki Choshu (Vader wins title, 10:04, 8/10/89)
IWGP Heavyweight Champion Big Van Vader vs. Stan Hansen (22:11, 6/12/90)
Big Van Vader vs. IWGP Champion Tatsumi Fujinami (Vader wins title, 12:57, 1/17/91)

Disc Two

Big Van Vader vs. Tony Halme (1991)
Big Van Vader & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Doom (Dec. 91)
Vader vs. Tatsuo Nakano (05/06/93)
Vader vs. Kazuo Yamazaki (8/13/93)
Vader vs. Masahito Kakihara (05/06/94)
Super Vader vs. Nobuhiko Takada (08/18/94)
Super Vader & John Tenta vs. Kazuo Yamazaki & Gary Albright (10/14/94)
Vader vs. Antonio Inoki (14:16, 1/4/96)

Disc Three

Vader & Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (Real World Tag League '98 Final 12/5/98)
Vader vs. Kenta Kobashi (1/15/99)
Vader vs. Akira Taue for the vacant Triple Crown Title (12:51, 3/6/99)
Vader vs. Jinsei Shinzaki (July 99)
Vader vs. Triple Crown Champion Mitsuhara Misawa (Vader wins title, 12:12, 10/30/99)
Vader & Steve Williams vs. Yoshihiro Takayama & Takao Omori (2/12/00)
Vader vs. Toshiaki Kawada (2/17/00)
Vader & Steve Williams vs. AJ Tag Team Champions Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (2/20/00)





Spoiler: Vader In UWFi



Vader In UWFi:

DISC 1:
Vader vs Tatsuo Nakano, 5/6/93 (Vader debuts in impressive fashion, demolishing Nakano)

Vader vs Kazuo Yamazaki, 8/13/93 (The main event of the best UWFI show ever. This is a terrific match with Yamazaki playing his role of the underdog native perfectly. He cheats and uses little-seen underhanded tactics to try and gain a victory against all odds. And he's got the crowd with him every step of the way. Vader does his part as well, even getting legit pissed off at a cheapshot from Yamazaki and punching the ref! Great stuff. Rating: ***1/2)

Vader vs Naoki Sano, 10/4/93 (Left off the US PPV of this show because of Vader's WCW commitments. This is a good one, but one that leaves a bit of a bad taste to me because it comes off as a little too "pro" in style with cooperation that is fairly obvious at times. Still, a fun match overall. Rating: **)

Vader VS Nobuhiko Takada, 12/5/93 (I asked Gene Lydick about this one and he said that Vader was literally scared backstage before this one, as he was totally unsure what to expect from Takada. The resulting match, which drew over 40,000 people, is an awesome spectactle - UWFI Champion vs WCW Champion, with all the attending trappings. UWFI, as they did for all of their heavyweight title fights, makes this seem like an EVENT more than a match and the aura is just incredible. The match itself is fantastic, easily ****. Vader's arm - as confirmed to me by Lydick, though it's possible he was lying - was legit injured in this one as a result of Takada's armbar. That results in a surreal scene after the match with Vader screaming in pain as Lou Thesz somberly announces the result over the microphone. Rating: ****)

DISC 2:
Vader vs Salman Hashimikov, 4/3/94 (First round of UWFI's incredible World Pro Wrestling Tournament. Unfortunately, the styles clash and the results are awful. Rating: DUD)

Vader vs Masahito Kakihara, 5/6/94 (Another 5/6 squash for Vader, this one even more brutal than the year before. Kakihara takes an incredible face-first suplex and ends up getting stretchered out. Vader looks legit concerned for him afterward. Rating: **)

Vader vs Kiyoshi Tamura, 6/10/94 (Fantastic match from another fantastic show. Both guys just lay into each other in a tremendously stiff match. Vader kills Tamura with a powerbomb for the victory. Rating: ***1/2)
Vader VS Nobuhiko Takada, 8/18/94 (What more can be said about this legendary match? This is the first one I mention to people when they ask to be introduced to UWFI. Maybe the stiffest worked match ever, certainly in the top 5, as both guys just throw bombs the entire time. Really an incredible match that gets better with repeated viewings. Rating: ****1/2)

DISC 3:
Vader & John Tenta vs Gary Albright & Kazuo Yamazaki, 10/8/94 (The main event from a huge Budokan show, this one isn't nearly as bad as you'd think. Tenta actually isn't horrible here and the other three are good enough to make up for his deficiencies. The idea is to set up a Vader vs Albright singles match, which this does. Rating: ***)

Vader & John Tenta vs Gary Albright & Kazuo Yamazaki, 10/14/94 (A rare change in the "one show per month" format that UWFI ran for 4 years. The rematch from the previous week isn't quite as good, but it's still fun. Rating: **1/2)

Vader vs Gary Albright, 1/16/95 (Clash of the Titans! Unfortunately, even with both guys being willing, the "monsters" just cancel each other out for the most part and the result is disappointing. This is also Vader's only successful UWFI title defense. Rating: **)

Vader vs Nobuhiko Takada, 4/20/95 (The little-seen and rarely-talked-about third match in their series. This one starts out wildly, with more "pro" to the match than previously seen. More great stuff from these two as Vader leaves UWFI with another classic under his belt. Rating: ****)

DISC 4:
Vader vs Akira Taue, 3/6/99 (Vader wins the vacant Triple Crown)

Vader vs Kenta Kobashi, 4/16/99 (Champ Carny '99 Finals - No surprise here that Kobashi is an excellent opponent for Vader. This is a terrific match, easily ***1/2 or better).

Vader vs Mitsuharu Misawa, 5/2/99 (From the huge All Japan Tokyo Dome show; Misawa shuts down Vader's Triple Crown reign and regains the title here in Vader's first defense)

Vader vs Mitsuharu Misawa, 10/30/99 (Vader regains the Triple Crown here, legit injuring Misawa with a powerbomb that, frankly, doesn't look all that bad)

Vader vs Jun Akiyama, 1/23/00 (Excellent match, even if you did know going in that Akiyama had no shot at victory)

Vader vs Toshiaki Kawada, 2/17/00 (Good match, but a little short; this is right after Kawada's comeback from his eye injury so they can't quite do the balls-to-the-walls stiffness you'd expect. Still, some heavy-hitting here in this good match.)

Vader & Steve Williams vs Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama, 2/20/00 (Vader & Williams win the Double Tag titles and would end up as the last champions prior to the NOAH split. This victory means that Vader, as Triple Crown champion, held 5 belts at the same time...)

Vader vs Kenta Kobashi, 2/27/00 (But not for long! Kobashi regains the Triple Crown in this fantastic match.)



Pretty much a definitive list for you.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Ill post the match listings to 3 Vader comps i have:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You just reminded me, MachoMadness if you haven't seen Vader and Bam Bam vs The Steiner's from Japan in 1991 make it a priority. Fantastic bout.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You just reminded me, MachoMadness if you haven't seen Vader and Bam Bam vs The Steiner's from Japan in 1991 make it a priority. Fantastic bout.


A couple of matches from my DM channel. 

x1as8oi

x1a6qp7


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm with Funnyfaces, we need to give Zeppers the MVP award for this thread. He is always holding it down with the awesome, rare match uploads.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm with Funnyfaces, we need to give Zeppers the MVP award for this thread. He is always holding it down with the awesome, rare match uploads.


I Y Q 2.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I would defo say Big Show is a better in ring worker than Kane.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> I would defo say Big Show is a better in ring worker than Kane.




Kane > Show. 

His matches with Orton, Bryan, and Punk were all better than Shows over the past 5 years. Yea, Show/Sheamus was good, but that's honestly the only good match show has been in in a Long LONG time.


EDIT: Show/Orton at SS was fucking god awful. Hell, his matches with Bryan weren't even nothing special.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> I would defo say Big Show is a better in ring worker than Kane.


I would defo argue against that.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Kane > Show.
> 
> His matches with Orton, Bryan, and Punk were all better than Shows over the past 5 years. Yea, Show/Sheamus was good, but that's honestly the only good match show has been in in a Long LONG time.
> 
> ...


Show/Sheamus (whole series) & Del Rio LMS blow Kane's 2012/2013/2014 work out of the water. Show hasn't been consistent, well Kane hasn't been either. What was Kane's last good singles match? Punk match was fine right before Mania 29 but I'd say Show had a better match with Punk, can't pinpoint the exact date but remember it being real good, it was in 2012.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Kane a better worker than Big Show? How?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I just watched Show/Taker CS 2008, what I consider to be Shows best match (even though it was Takers SUBLIME selling that made it so special) so maybe it's recency effect. Let's break her on down, Dr. Jack style:


Big Shows 5 Best Matches:

1. Vs Taker CS 2008 ****1/4
2. Vs Sheamus HiaC 2012 ****1/4
3. Vs Mark Henry Vengeance 2011 ****1/4
4. Vs Eddie Smackdown 2004 ****1/4
5. Vs Taker No Mercy 2008 ****

Kane's 5 Best Matches:

1. Vs Benoit Bad Blodd 2004 ****1/4
2. Vs Undertaker WM 14 ****1/4
3. Vs Finlay Belfast Brawl SD ****
4. Vs Mankind SVS 1997 ****
5. Vs ..... (Struggling to remember one)

So Show is my pick as of right now


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Kane's WWE Title match vs. Punk in 2012 was better than Show/Punk from that year. I'll give you the Show/Sheamus series, ADR/Show LMS (the first one) and plenty of other stuff from his, but recently in singles competition, asides from that Punk match, Kane had basically every Bryan match (especially SummerSlam & Main Event in Feb this year), the 2012 series with Orton, and much other solid matches with the likes of Rollins, Cesaro and Mysterio. Plus, if we're counting overall work, Kane was in MASSIVE number in a Best of 2013 list considering his Team Hell No stuff w/the Shield and other fun tags; and throughout history, Kane has a better record than Show - the Taker WM 14, SD 2008 and NOC 2010 and Benoit everything being the most famous examples. Show certainly has an amazing record, but in my estimation, I'd like to think Kane is better.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Kane vs Benoit BB 04 and Kane vs Taker WM 14 > any show match IMO  maybe I'm bias because I'm a Kane mark, but I feel he's a better overall worker than Show.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Big Show/Taker series is on a whole other level compared to the Kane/Taker series.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> Ill post the match listings to 3 Vader comps i have:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:mark: Dude where does one get this?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Were you making thinking of Davey Boy Vs FINLAY? From 3/13/82?


Yup


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Didn't think I'd see a Kane/Big Show debate today haha. Kind of awesome. 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You just reminded me, MachoMadness if you haven't seen Vader and Bam Bam vs The Steiner's from Japan in 1991 make it a priority. Fantastic bout.


Yes I have seen it....so great. :vader and Bam Bam as a tag team is just wonderful.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Even the worst Kane/Orton match (that would be the Falls Count Anywhere match iirc) is better than the best Show/Orton match. And the Benoit stuff is of legend too, whereas the only Benoit/Show match I can remember wasn't all that impressive, shockingly at that tbh. Mick Foley stuff is overall better too (yes there's that badass Boiler Room Brawl, but Kane/Mankind SVS has it beat imo). The short and unremarkable stuff that Kane had with The Rock and Austin > long stuff Show had with The Rock and Austin . And as far as I remember, Kane outperformed Show in most of THEIR matches together... I think I remember that. 

And then, regarding Taker/Sho... oh yeah, there is the fact that Taker/Kane WM 14 is not the best between both the Taker/Kane and Taker/Show series (that would be CS 2008). Dammit. Uhh... Triple H had better stuff with Show... Cena had SLIGHTLY better stuff with Show... Henry definitely won with Show... Lesnar stuff is killer... There's a lot of gems alongside Flair, Mysterio, Angle and Eddie... hell even Khali and Ryback had good matches with Show...

FUCK. I guess I have to give in. :show


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> :mark: Dude where does one get this?


The 18 Disc one i got ff Cal, but i can put you in touch with the guy who made it and sells copies of his sets (Goodhelmet). The other two sets i got through trades, but the Japan one is i think available from Highspots, the UWFi one was custom made by someone.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Show had some stellar stuff with Flair, JBL too, plus his ECW stint is heaven. Benoit & Show Rumble 04 ending don't count it out.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Vader's UWFi matches are easy to find on YT and DM, and everyone should watch them, even if you're not familiar with the shoot style.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> The 18 Disc one i got ff Cal, but i can put you in touch with the guy who made it and sells copies of his sets (Goodhelmet). The other two sets i got through trades, but the Japan one is i think available from Highspots, the UWFi one was custom made by someone.


Hell yes. Pm me....


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

After giving it some thought, I realized trivializing 2 guys careers by comparing their top 5 matches is a rather awful way of deducing who was the superior performer. For instance, Shawn Michaels or Triple H's 5 best matches are probably better than the 5 best matches of Finlay and Regal (atleast during their time in the US, haven't seen much of Finlay's awesomeness on WoS) but does that mean they are better wrestlers than either Finlay or Regal? In my humble opinion, helllll no. That said, I feel very confident if I compared say Big Shows 50 best efforts with Kane's 50 best efforts, or even 100 best efforts, Show would still win out. I like and enjoy both guys, and Kane definitely wins as far as the character part goes. His original incarnation in 1997 and his unmasked burn victim character in 2003 are far superior to any iterations of the Big Show character. Even so, Big Show to me just seems BETTER at wrestling than Kane. Kane's a solid, good worker but Big Show just has that extra gear that allows for greatness to be achieved at a seemingly higher clip.

Both guys are future HoFers and rightly so, but for my money, Big Show has to get the nod as the better worker. He's had some damn, damn fine matches and it's amazing how great an athlete he is relative to his size.

I'm off to watch some Big Show


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, what the flying fuck, I'm about to rewatch one of the most shockingly good matches... possibly in wrestling history: Batista/Khali Punjabi Prison. Talk about a sleeper.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

For whatever reason I expected nothing from Big Show/Sheamus at Hell in a Cell 2012 but found it to be good (borderline great)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Their HIAC match is awesome, MOTN and a MOTYC.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Oh totally MOTN and saved that PPV from the dumpster fire. Though unk4/Ryback was better than I thought it would be. Pretty sure :cena5 was hurt at that time? I think unk2 and :cena2 in the cell actually has the _"potential"_ to be amazing.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Also, I forgot to add Shows barb wire cage match with JBL is fucking FANTASTIC. Absolutely awesome. Show is at his best clobbering it out with a guy who likes working stiff, watching Hell in a Cell vs Sheamus now :mark:

Cal had it right, MOTYC for 2012


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Hell in a Cell with Sheamus is one of my favorite Big Show matches ever on my last rewatch. I think I gave it ***** 1/4*.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow fuck a baby with a broken bottle, Batista/Khali NM 2007 (Punjabi Prison) is still quite good. Can't believe those two got something like that out of a match that UNDERTAKER AND BIG SHOW failed to bring something decent from. The suspense out of something like two guys climbing up and down from two giant bamboo cages doesn't seem anything other than odd, but for my shock, I was just rallying in adrenaline as that happened. More accurately, the race of-sorts to see who would reach the end of both cages first, which seemed Khali for obvious on first, but then Batista going Hulk and superjumping from one cage to the other cage and just going down quickly and desperately to win was pretty awesome. Asides from the great ending sequence, the whole psychology regarding the (complicated) rules of the match itself, was well done. Khali had probably his best singles performance ever outside of Royal Rumble '07 and maybe the Taker LMS match, with him being all over Batista with vicious punches, kicks and the sort of offense that guys as immobile as him should have, and what the hell, it quite worked. Batista's comebacks were very nice too, particularly the one that led to him going crazy with the strap. They also used the whole door stuff nicely, and the last two doors had some big suspense to them too, especially the last one which Khali used the door to attack Batista, and it seemed Khali was going to let the door actually drop on Batista's neck. Overall, like I said, arguably one of the most shockingly good matches... ever. Props to both men (yes I just gave KHALI props) for making this work. Around ***1/4 to ***1/2 for it imo.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> After giving it some thought, I realized trivializing 2 guys careers by comparing their top 5 matches is a rather awful way of deducing who was the superior performer. For instance, Shawn Michaels or Triple H's 5 best matches are probably better than the 5 best matches of Finlay and Regal (atleast during their time in the US, haven't seen much of Finlay's awesomeness on WoS) but does that mean they are better wrestlers than either Finlay or Regal? In my humble opinion, helllll no. That said, I feel very confident if I compared say Big Shows 50 best efforts with Kane's 50 best efforts, or even 100 best efforts, Show would still win out. I like and enjoy both guys, and Kane definitely wins as far as the character part goes. His original incarnation in 1997 and his unmasked burn victim character in 2003 are far superior to any iterations of the Big Show character. Even so, Big Show to me just seems BETTER at wrestling than Kane. * Kane's a solid, good worker* but Big Show just has that extra gear that allows for greatness to be achieved at a seemingly higher clip.


Let's not go crazy now. He's barely a passable worker. Without the Undertaker by his side he'd have been future endeavored a couple years after his arrival.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> Let's not go crazy now. He's barely a passable worker. Without the Undertaker by his side he'd have been future endeavored a couple years after his arrival.



Kane's not a guy whose gonna carry a lesser talent to a good match. But if you put him in there with a Danielson, Finlay, Benoit, or Taker, he can go. He's like the British Bulldog in that sense. I think he's a lot more than "passable" as a wrestler. He's good, and he's certainly solid. Just IMO obviously.

Oh yea I remembered number 5 for my top 5 Kane matches list:

5. Vs Triple H Chain Match Judgement Day 2001 ****

I went out and got the Twisted Life of Kane set a few months ago the same time Jack Evans did cause it was on sale at Amazon for $5. Definitely worth the price, he's had a nice little selection of good-great matches in his career.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

ATF said:


> Wow fuck a baby with a broken bottle, Batista/Khali NM 2007 (Punjabi Prison) is still quite good. Can't believe those two got something like that out of a match that UNDERTAKER AND BIG SHOW failed to bring something decent from. The suspense out of something like two guys climbing up and down from two giant bamboo cages doesn't seem anything other than odd, but for my shock, I was just rallying in adrenaline as that happened. More accurately, the race of-sorts to see who would reach the end of both cages first, which seemed Khali for obvious on first, but then Batista going Hulk and superjumping from one cage to the other cage and just going down quickly and desperately to win was pretty awesome. Asides from the great ending sequence, the whole psychology regarding the (complicated) rules of the match itself, was well done. Khali had probably his best singles performance ever outside of Royal Rumble '07 and maybe the Taker LMS match, with him being all over Batista with vicious punches, kicks and the sort of offense that guys as immobile as him should have, and what the hell, it quite worked. Batista's comebacks were very nice too, particularly the one that led to him going crazy with the strap. They also used the whole door stuff nicely, and the last two doors had some big suspense to them too, especially the last one which Khali used the door to attack Batista, and it seemed Khali was going to let the door actually drop on Batista's neck. Overall, like I said, arguably one of the most shockingly good matches... ever. Props to both men (yes I just gave KHALI props) for making this work. Around ***1/4 to ***1/2 for it imo.


This is one of the most improbable matches of all time. There's no reason why anyone in their right mind would ever think that this would be a good or even decent match. But somehow, against all the odds it's a good match.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Love that Bret/Bulldog match with all my heart. May not have been the bloodiest bladejob ever, but considering the situation and timing of it, it's one of the best. Mabel/Viscera is such a weird guy. His 90s run was filled with some of the worst wrestling ever, but when he came back as Big Daddy V, he was a lot more fun to watch. I think he works best against a small babyface rather than another big man because the pace slows down way too much with that other big guy. It's also why I'm not the biggest proponent of fatty fights. I understand why it's slow paced and I'm not asking for hurricanranas and moonsaults, but enough is enough at some point. If it's too slow and boring, then I'm turning it off. Sorry Kamala, but you just can't keep my interest.


The blade job is just incredible because it looks like it easily could have been done the hard way. I also think there was a lot more blood than it appeared because it happened outside the ring and Bret bled a ton before getting into the ring and bleeding some more. The cameras also avoided a close-up of it as well because of the time periods. 

Mabel was terrible but he did get better eventually. I would never call him good but he was a million times better during his last run in WWE than he was during this time period. Not that you could really be much worse than some of the matches that he had.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TaylorFitz said:


> This is one of the most improbable matches of all time. There's no reason why anyone in their right mind would ever think that this would be a good or even decent match. But somehow, against all the odds it's a good match.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bret said in his book when he was driving to that PPV he was thinking about how the fans weren't gonna be into the match and was wondering what he could do to spice things up and get them to buy into the story. He said he passed a pharmacy and that's when he got the bright idea to do a blade job on the sneak tip without anyone knowing. As far as I know he didn't call an audible mid match, they just set it up that way so that when Bret did start to bleed, it would catch the fans totally by surprise and would jolt the crowd into action. I gave that match ****1/2 as well and I slightly prefer it to their more famous SS 1992 match. Bret Harts "A" game rivals that of any other wrestler ever in my book. I hope you're enjoying your trip through the entire IYH series, just wait until you get to MINDGAMES in 1996 and get to witness one of the greatest matches ever in my book, looking forward to see your thoughts on it


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

On the Kane vs Show debate, I have to agree with Show being better. Kane is a solid worker but Show has better stuff in his catalog for the most part. Their best matches are neck and neck, though. Benoit/Kane from Bad Blood and Taker/Show from Cyber Sunday.

Different subject, but how funny is this segment? Never ceases to make me laugh because Austin is such a funny motherfucker. :lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Top 10 Vader matches everyone/anyone?


ooooh I'm going to try this

1. v. Sting, SuperBrawl III
2. v. Sting, GAB 92
3. v. Rhodes, Clash 11/16/94
4. v. Sting, Starrcade 92
5. v. Sting, Fall Brawl 94
6. v. Steamboat 10/16/93
7.....................

nup, couldn't do it. Hell I'm not even happy with that top 6. Well, I'm almost positive the top 4 is right. Left out the match with Flair b/c IDK how it holds up. Umm, the point of this post was.........OH, overlooked Vader matches:

v. Bossman Spring Stampede 94 (zep posted this - WATCH IT)
v. Davey Boy Slmaboree 93 + Clash 8/18/93
v. Steamboat 4/25/93
EDIT - Vader & Arn v. Stars n Stripes, too. WATCH IT



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> I would defo say Big Show is a better in ring worker than Kane.


I don't see anything special about Kane and I in fact find him rather crappy. Show smokes his ass in every single tiny way.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

You've got to include at least one Vader vs. Nobuhiko Takada match if we're talking about Vader's best matches.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Bret said in his book when he was driving to that PPV he was thinking about how the fans weren't gonna be into the match and was wondering what he could do to spice things up and get them to buy into the story. He said he passed a pharmacy and that's when he got the bright idea to do a blade job on the sneak tip without anyone knowing. As far as I know he didn't call an audible mid match, they just set it up that way so that when Bret did start to bleed, it would catch the fans totally by surprise and would jolt the crowd into action. I gave that match ****1/2 as well and I slightly prefer it to their more famous SS 1992 match. Bret Harts "A" game rivals that of any other wrestler ever in my book. I hope you're enjoying your trip through the entire IYH series, just wait until you get to MINDGAMES in 1996 and get to witness one of the greatest matches ever in my book, looking forward to see your thoughts on it


Well then Bret deserves even more credit for knowing exactly what the crowd wanted and giving it to them. They were restless at first and if they worked slow, mat based match this wouldn't have worked. 

I've seen Mindgames before and it was amazing. Once Bret got the title I'm pretty sure the title match quality really increased. I watched but didn't review Survivor Series and the quality has just been insane and has no sign of letting up. 

Bret/Diesel
Bret/Undertaker
Bret/Diesel Cage Match
Bret/Shawn (OK maybe this won't be good but maybe it will be better on a rewatch)
Shawn/Diesel
2 Bulldog/Shawn matches (I love their chemistry) 
Shawn/Vader
Shawn/Mankind

Pretty great sequence of title matches bar maybe the Iron Man match if I end up not liking it that much.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That segment was so GOAT :lmao


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Liked the segment. Dark and entertaining. Can Wyatt please go over in this cage match? He can even win by just escaping. He doesn't have to pin :cena3.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Jimmy valiantly? Haha Cole... you are such a dork.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So conflicted about that match. Three of the four guys did excellent work (Axel, Ryback, Jimmy Uso), but Jey Uso's selling of his hamstring/ankle was not very good. Reminded me of how his dad would sell. Rikishi is a good wrestler, but there was a time in 2000 where he had to sell an ankle injury for weeks, and whether or not he sold it well depended on his mood. Either it was done very well, or he Kofi'd it.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> On the Kane vs Show debate, I have to agree with Show being better. Kane is a solid worker but Show has better stuff in his catalog for the most part. Their best matches are neck and neck, though. Benoit/Kane from Bad Blood and Taker/Show from Cyber Sunday.
> 
> Different subject, but how funny is this segment? Never ceases to make me laugh because Austin is such a funny motherfucker. :lol


LOVE THAT SEGMENT!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

"I take my clients to the top." ~ :heyman2 





:axel


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Pretty good tag title match on Raw. Awesome opening segment... good show so far, although we're almost through the first hour and there's only been one match.

Edit: Holy fuck... they... they've just out-done themselves in burying Sandow.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Sandow :duck


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Thing is, Sandow is so great he made that segment as funny as it could possibly be.

To top what happened tonight, and I'm calling it right now...


... Sandow's gonna challenge Paige for the Divas title next week... and lose.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Seriously, who did Sandow piss off? From being a Money in the Bank winner to getting hip tossed by Hugh Jackman while dressed as Magneto. The fuck happened?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

meh, the matches have been shit so far


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> LOVE THAT SEGMENT!


YOU'RE PLEADING THE FIFTH!

I'd rather watch that segment for 3 hours non-stop than Raw.



DoubtGin said:


> meh, the matches have been shit so far


The whole show has been shit. Orton better save this disaster and FLAIR better show up soon.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> The whole show has been shit. Orton better save this disaster and FLAIR better show up soon.


opening segment was fun and I laughed at that Heyman joke, to be honest : , rest is just awful


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

First hour was pretty good... second hour was AWFUL! A steaming pile of garbage. Orton/Reigns is probably going to suck too. 

Barrett/RVD have a lot of work to do to make up for this show.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This Bryan/Kane feud :lenny. It may be a filler feud, but like Henry/Cena last year, this is how such a filler feud should be done. Can't wait for their match on Sunday.

:lol at how awful that second hour was after a hot first hour. And this terrible Cena promo right now :bosh


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Meh, I'd rather watch Spurs/Mavs than RAW. Barrett/RVD doesn't do much for me. By the way, in case anyone is out of the loop... WIZARDS!!! :mark:



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I went out and got the Twisted Life of Kane set a few months ago the same time Jack Evans did cause it was on sale at Amazon for $5. Definitely worth the price, he's had a nice little selection of good-great matches in his career.


And then I stopped watching on Disc 3 right before anything started getting good. :lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Barrett/RVD was pretty good... step down from last few weeks for Barrett, but still MOTN, so the streak continues! **3/4-***. 

... well that is unless... Lol, Orton/Reigns is good. :lmao

Awful show as a whole, easily the worst in awhile.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ladies and gentlemen, the greatest mic worker of all-time :lol

Wade Barrett holding on a MOTN streak like this. What has this world come to? Credit to Wade, but where are our six man tags?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bit strange that only two matches on the Extreme Rules card have gimmicks.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Looking forward to Bryan/Kane and Shield/Evolution. I don't know what else is on the card but as of now, I only care about those two matches.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Looks like a pretty good card.

Bryan/Kane
Shield/Evolution
Cena/Wyatt
Barrett/Langston
RVD/Cesaro/Swagger
Rusev squash
Paige/Tamina

Every match has a strong feud behind them. Hopefully we get a tag match too. And one more stipulation, preferrably to Shield/Evolution. But other than that, I don't know what more you could want. I guess a Lesnar match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Extreme Rules needs a start a la Armageddon '06. Usos defend the Tag Titles in a 4-way Ladder Match against RybAxel, Rhodes Bros, and Los Matadores. How badass would that be? Obviously the quality wouldn't be as good as the previous one mentioned, but still. We never get a ladder match unless it's MITB or TLC time.

Also, THANK FUCKING GOD that Ambrose is in a position to FINALLY drop the US Title to someone on Smackdown. I'm pulling for Del Rio so we actually see some midcard Title matches that I (or maybe others) care about. Del Rio vs. Henry, Sheamus, Mysterio, Van Dam, Cesaro, dare I say Kofi, Ziggler, etc. Not to mention I don't wanna see Ryback or Axel in singles... or at all really.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

ADR is leaving very soon so I doubt a title run is in the cards tbh 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Meh, I'd rather watch Spurs/Mavs than RAW. Barrett/RVD doesn't do much for me. By the way, in case anyone is out of the loop... WIZARDS!!! :mark:
> 
> 
> And then I stopped watching on Disc 3 right before anything started getting good. :lol



Yea you nob. Go watch Kane/Finlay Belfast Brawl and BoD vs Finlay/Booker. 


Also......I GOT THAT BULLETS FEVER. JOHN WALL AND HIS NOBLE SQUIRE SIR BRADLEY OF BEAL WILL TAKE US TO THE PROMISE LAND. NENE THE EXECUTIONER IS FIXING TO GET MEDIEVAL ON BUTLERS ASS.

Sorry, had to get that off my chest. Ahem


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Good card for ER, but what's with no stipulations? It was one of the things that made ER stand out and I'd have thought atleast Shield vs Evolution would have some stipulation. Will be VERY surprised if no weapons are involved in the six man AT ALL.

Would have like seeing a stipulation for Paige/Tamina too but eh we'll seeat they make of it.-


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> Good card for ER, but what's with no stipulations? It was one of the things that made ER stand out and I'd have thought atleast Shield vs Evolution would have some stipulation. Will be VERY surprised if no weapons are involved in the six man AT ALL.
> 
> Would have like seeing a stipulation for Paige/Tamina too but eh we'll seeat they make of it.-




Yea, I would have loved to see a "6 Man Street Fight" ala the Chicago Street Fight from WM13. How bad ass would that have been to see all 6 guys going at it at the same time with everything at their disposal? Plus it would have helped hide Batista's deficiencies in the ring. Can't you just see Evolution coming out in jeans and tank tops to brawl with the Shield in their urban combat gear? Would have been AWESOME. 

Also would have dug a Last Man Standing stip for Danielson/Kane.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

I can only imagine they're saving a match with stipulations for later. But have read that Batista may go on a short break so not sure. Really think Evolution's going over on Sunday.

Yeah Last Man Standing would have been great. Don't see Kane getting pinned tbh. Maybe a double knockout or non finish but Bryan retains.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So is everyone ready for Flair to show up at ER and "OMG SHOCKINGLY SCREW OVER THE SHIELD"? Because nobody would see that coming, right? I sure don't.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Don't think it's likely :lol But yeah if Flair's there we know what's happening.

I'd have preferred someone like Sheamus randomly appearing and screwing the Shield and aligning himself with HHH/Orton. Based on what went down with Titus on Raw, I can stop dreaming I guess.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched the Lesnar doc last night while in bed since watching stuff makes me sleepy. Anyway... anyone else find it weird that he's HARDLY IN HIS OWN DOCUMENTARY? Seriously. It's like 1 hour long and he's probably only talking for about 4 minutes total IF THAT.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Watched the Lesnar doc last night while in bed since watching stuff makes me sleepy. Anyway... anyone else find it weird that he's HARDLY IN HIS OWN DOCUMENTARY? Seriously. It's like 1 hour long and he's probably only talking for about 4 minutes total IF THAT.



Lol it's true Brock hates being interviewed and he hates talking. He just wants to show up, wreck havoc, then go home to his farm and family. That's really all he cares about.

I loved Booker talking about having a match with Lesnar, when Booker was calling shit cause he was the vet and Brock just said "eff this" and decided to give old Booker a massive belly to belly suplex completely off script. Gotta love that dude. Or when they Showa clip of Jeff Hardy just annihilating Brock with a chair shot to the skull and Brock never leaves his feet. I also like when Bubba talks about how Rocky is a pro cause he very rarely ever fucks up, and how Brock was able to go one on one with "the great one" after only 6 months on the main roster.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't think Brock actually talked about his pro wrestling career at all in the doc :lmao. He was at the start talking about growing up, then his amateur shit, and then... everyone else talking for him . Shame because it would have been nice to hear him talk about his big matches with Hulk and Rock and Taker etc.

And if I was a wrestler against Booker T I'd start throwing him around too. Fuck Booker T and his shittyness :side:. I'm a fucking smark/prick/internet cunt and I could probably call better matches in the ring than him :side:.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> ADR is leaving very soon so I doubt a title run is in the cards tbh
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Thank God (Randy Savage)! 



RAINNMAKAHH said:


> Don't think it's likely :lol But yeah if Flair's there we know what's happening.
> 
> I'd have preferred someone like Sheamus randomly appearing and screwing the Shield and aligning himself with HHH/Orton. Based on what went down with Titus on Raw, I can stop dreaming I guess.


I'd love to see Evolution add a member but I'm struggling to find someone. Cody Rhodes maybe with this flirting with a heel turn? Probably not though. I like the idea of Sandow joining but don't see it. Probably not going to happen though. 

Flair's promo was odd last night. He did not look well. Seemed a little confused. Love me some Flair though and hope he shows up Sunday in some capacity.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I still havn't gotten around to watching that Lesnar doc.  Didn't realise other superstars had input too TBH.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Brock doc is kind of boring as far as WWE docs go but it is ok. Matches on that set are great. They should re-release it with Brock's match with unk and his match with Taker at Mania with :heyman3 doing commentary on both! :mark:

:curry2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone have thoughts on the SD '02 Angle/Taker match before Vengeance? Never saw it but was just reminded of it after watching the Vengeance 2002 triple threat. :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I love that match more than most (****). I think that's their first match where their chemistry truly showed.

EDIT: Adam Silver vs. Donald Sterling was one of the best squashes of all time.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Is there a website somewhere with match listings on raws and smackdowns? Because I'm always like yeah I loved that match on Raw or Smackdown but sometimes forget when it was.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x10kp38_undertaker-vs-kurt-angle-7-4-2002-smackdown_sport

Was this the match?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> EDIT: Adam Silver vs. Donald Sterling was one of the best squashes of all time.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My thoughts on Raw...

... well, fuck. Given how awesome Smackdown was, I was anticipating better. Much better.

The Cena/Wyatt segment was awesome, bar some cheesiness in Cena's promo. The Bryan/Kane segment was very good too, Brie got her point across and the whole thing felt nicely. The final segment was good too, FLAIR endorsing the Shield I actually totally saw coming though :lol. And yeah, *BAD NEWS BARRETT* ruled the show with a badass promo and the MOTN (w/RVD at that, the same guy who last week couldn't have something decent with Cesaro of all guys) for the _3rd straight week_ (Usos/Rybaxel was OK as well, but RVD/Barrett was quite better). Oh, and Paul Heyman's joke. That was cool too.

Everything else was just the SHITTIN' BOLLOCKS. So much talent wasted. The Rhodes Brothers, Del Rio, Henry, Sheamus, Titus, Ziggler... SANDOW, oh shit, Sandow. What the fuck did he do to deserve that?! I love Magneto as much as the next guy (only 2nd to Joker as my favorite comic book villain ever), but are you fucking serious? Look, I don't mind Hugh Jackman. He did fine there, and the segment's awfulness was not his fault I guess. And back in 2011 he did have one of the best celebrity appearances ever. This, though... oh Jesus. Ziggler sucked in this segment. And SANDOW deserves a fucking apology for that.

And yeah, the rest of the show was mindless filler. Whatfuckingever. Even Cesaro/Swagger was meh.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Dolph and Sandow are being wasted big time. Nothing new there.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I love that match more than most (****). I think that's their first match where their chemistry truly showed.
> 
> EDIT: Adam Silver vs. Donald Sterling was one of the best squashes of all time.



Can we just start calling Adam Silver "the Bear Jew" ala Inglorious Basterds? Because he essentially just verbally beat Sterling to death with a baseball bat in a dark alley. That was BRUTAL. Lifetime banishment, $2.5 mil fine, and he's gonna be forced to sell his team. I would have liked for him to add "a public tar and feathering to be hosted by Elgin Baylor" but you can only ask for so much I guess 

What to watch. Just got home from work-yesterday I went with the Sheamus/Show, Henry/Show, Vader/Boss big man trifecta after I got home and I don't think I can top that. Maybe some of Kane's best efforts to help get me psyched for Extreme Rules....nah, I'm going with Regal/Sting GAB and Vader/Sting FB.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Is there a website somewhere with match listings on raws and smackdowns? Because I'm always like yeah I loved that match on Raw or Smackdown but sometimes forget when it was.


Like this? 

http://www.profightdb.com/


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HBK briefly doing the 'Hogan pose' after his match with Diesel at GFBE.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

LOOK WHAT I FOUND :mark: :mark: mark:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwoeuq_pegasus-kid-vs-steven-regal_sport


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> LOOK WHAT I FOUND :mark: :mark: mark:
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwoeuq_pegasus-kid-vs-steven-regal_sport


Thought you saw that one already Jack.  The date: (9/23/95)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Thought you saw that one already Jack.



NOPE :mark: :mark:

I should be ashamed of myself too, as my favorite all time matchups are Eddie/Rey, Taker/Foley, Benoit/Finlay, and Benoit/Regal. This should be GOOD.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> NOPE :mark: :mark:
> 
> I should be ashamed of myself too, as my favorite all time matchups are Eddie/Rey, Taker/Foley, Benoit/Finlay, and Benoit/Regal. This should be GOOD.


You may enjoy this then: http://bigcaldiscs.webs.com/listings/bbbbbcomp.html


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> You may enjoy this then: http://bigcaldiscs.webs.com/listings/bbbbbcomp.html




OH MY! Cal if you ever start selling comp's again and can ship to the US, I'm most certainly interested in that set 

Also just found this little ditty:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-dq4pyGtSA

Booker's guest commentary is really, REALLY, annoying though. Wish they would have just called the match instead of letting Booker ramble on in the third person about how "technically sound" he is :lmao


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I don't think Brock actually talked about his pro wrestling career at all in the doc :lmao. He was at the start talking about growing up, then his amateur shit, and then... everyone else talking for him . Shame because it would have been nice to hear him talk about his big matches with Hulk and Rock and Taker etc.


He said in his book that the reason that there weren't more WWE stories in his book was because he was drunk and on Vicodin all the time. He said that he doesn't remember much of his WWE career, and that's sad.

That's probably why he didn't say much on the documentary.

Still, I felt his book contained quite a bit of behind the scenes info, but yeah, talk about his feelings _during_ matches aren't that plentiful. 


Re: Shield vs. Evolution: Yeah, it's incredible that it's not gonna be a street fight. They are wasting PPV matches by not making them exciting.

Haven't cared less about a PPV since I've started watching. Well, with the exception of SvS '13, that is.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm in a huge :angle2 mood lately. Oh, it's true. Hate all you want (spot monkey bullshit) but he was incredibly entertaining in his prime. Enjoying Angle vs Austin at Unforgiven right now. Fun, underrated feud. 

An :angle2 :bryan2 feud and match or two needs to happen someday if our Olympic hero comes back to the E. 



DoubtGin said:


> Like this?
> 
> http://www.profightdb.com/


I was looking for one that just had Raw and/or Smackdown matches but this works too. Thanks. Undertaker NEVER beat Warrior? Haha that makes me lol. 



The Hitman said:


> HBK briefly doing the 'Hogan pose' after his match with Diesel at GFBE.


Only PPV I have ever been to live. I remember that haha. Really fun PPV. The dark matches were all really good and it was the last ppv for Nash and Hall in the WWF before they went to WCW. Well, went back.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ive already thought about how easy a Danielson/Angle feud could be built. Danielson could be in the middle of the ring cutting a promo about how he is the best WRESTLER in the world, when all of the sudden Angles music hits and boom, here comes the Olympic hero. He can do his usual 2 gold medals, won with a freakin broken neck routine, and they'd be off. People would think it's a straight face/face match at first, but Angle would interfere in Danielson's next match and cause him to lose. Then afterwards he could lock in the Ankle Lock for good measure. Boom, done. They could even make it a submissions match or something.

Then again, I haven't seen one single Angle match since he's been in TNA. I have no idea if he can still go, or if he's even healthy enough to still wrestle. That said, I think Bryan is experienced enough to keep Angle in check during the match and keep him from going full retard. Angle working with a guy who knows his shit in a WWE ring was just about always a good-great match. After WM 30, I've learned never to underestimate the ability of Danielson to bring the best out of someone ever again.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Angle cant pass a WWE physical at this point, read somewhere that his neck is more fucked than Edge's was in 2011


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Sad to think we were this close to seeing Angle/Bryan in PWG in 2006, shit would of be GOLDEN


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Sheamus vs. Bray Wyatt was a pretty good match. ***1/4 IMO.



SMITTY said:


> Angle cant pass a WWE physical at this point, read somewhere that his neck is more fucked than Edge's was in 2011


That sucks. It just doesn't feel right if he doesn't retire with the WWE.

I hope, if they do bring him back, they give him something on-air though. General manager position or "adviser" position to Triple H or something like that. Could be some good comedy stuff there.



Tanner1495 said:


> Sad to think we were this close to seeing Angle/Bryan in PWG in 2006, shit would of be GOLDEN


What prevented it? Angle's problems that made him leave WWE?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Goodness, Bray Wyatt's Smackdown promo (from last week) was one of the best promos I've ever seen. Definitely his best. 

Completely captivating, and he said such true shit, and I think that he captured all of the weirdness and drive of his character in that one promo, without being autobiographical.

So glad I DVR'ed it, for that alone.

I've never been a "promo over match quality" person, but Bray's a person who can make me prefer his promos over some of my favorite matches.

Genius, and the WWE better know what they have in him.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I normally don't care too much, but there are not enough stipulations for ER. I guess there's still time to add some, but I was hoping for a BRAWL~! between Evolution and The Shield with WEAPONS~!

Oh, and can Bryan face an opponent not involved with The Authority pls?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

PGSucks said:


> I normally don't care too much, but there are not enough stipulations for ER. I guess there's still time to add some, but I was hoping for a BRAWL~! between Evolution and The Shield with WEAPONS~!
> 
> Oh, and can Bryan face an opponent not involved with The Authority pls?


Same. A stip would've made me a lot more confident about Evolution/Shield being good. I'm still going with Bryan/Kane as the likely MOTN and the build has actually been good too. Cena/Wyatt should be good if their WrestleMania match is anything to go by but WWE cage matches are so hit and miss that I'm not going into it with high expectations. Those are the only matches on the card worth anything to me. It'll be cool to see Barrett win the IC title but Langston sucks so that's whatever. The triple threat could be fun, it could also be a pile of shit. At least Swagger made the card. Was worried they might go with Cesaro/Van Dam and leave Swagger out altogether. All in all the card looks solid yet unexciting.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena mentioned SAMI ZAYN ON RAW.

k, that's all I got. :zayn3


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Is ADR/Goldust on Main Event worth a watch or will it be a depressing angle pushing the Rhodes Bros split and be devoid of what should be a good match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No. It was poor, to my chagrin. Del Rio isn't trying at all these days. Sheamus vs Wyatt is good. If you want to give it the time.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

This fucking promotion. Sigh, Sheams/Bray seems a good enough substitute, if WWE aren't going to just let Goldust reign supreme.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They really aren't. Although, last year he did get at least four singles matches off the top of my head. vs Orton (which I'm pretty big on), vs Rollins, vs Ryback, & vs Swagger. Rollins & Swagger ones I have to relive b/c they're fuzzy - part of me almost remembers the Swagger match being a bit on the disappointing side, but that just can't be - & the Ryback one was a bit iffy. Again, I could do w/a refresher.

It's only been tag team glory or bust according to this crack booking department. Booourns.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

At first the announcement of *Shield/Evolution* had me hyped, but really looking at the members of Evolution i'm worried a standard match isn't the best choice. Also the build has screamed "Extreme Rules Match". Thought they'd make *Bryan/Kane* a LMS match, never liked their previous matches but maybe the addition of weapons will change that. Can't say i'm a fan of modern cage matches, The last one i enjoyed was Edge/Jericho(ERs) and i can t remember one i've liked before that. Expect something crazy from *Wyatt/Cena*.

Everything else on the card should be ok.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

bme said:


> At first the announcement of *Shield/Evolution* had me hyped, but really looking at the members of Evolution i'm worried a standard match isn't the best choice. Also the build has screamed "Extreme Rules Match". Thought they'd make *Bryan/Kane* a LMS match, never liked their previous matches but maybe the addition of weapons will change that. Can't say i'm a fan of modern cage matches, The last one i enjoyed was Edge/Jericho(ERs) and i can t remember one i've liked before that. Expect something crazy from *Wyatt/Cena*.
> 
> Everything else on the card should be ok.



Bryan and Henry had an AWESOME cage match on Smackdown in late 2011....that's the last one I can remember being a big fan of. The quality of Cena/Bray is going to be based entirely on how interesting a control segment Bray can work. I'd like to see a good, methodical, destruction of a Cena type deal with Cena bumping around and really putting over Brays offense before the inevitable firey comeback. I don't want it to be a back and forth thing. They need to make it seem like Bray is at home in the confines of the cage. They can continue with the story of Bray trying to bring the monster out of Cena if they want, I really dug it at WM.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm relatively surprised they gave away Sheamus/Wyatt for the first time on Main Event. That seems like a PPV quality match in my eyes. Oh well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I called it out only in the sense of WWE wanting to really keep Bray going as strong as possible despite getting an expected loss vs Cena on Sunday.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'll honestly be shocked if Wyatt wins at ER, after hearing that hideous interview Cena gave on Raw. They don't call John Cena a career killer for nothing, when you simply feed your hot acts to him like that. Sandow says hi.

But back to some positivity, just before Extreme Rules rolls on, top 10 matches of the year? Because if anything, there are three, maybe four matches with potential to get in there (RVD/Swagger/Cesaro, Shield/Evolution and Bryan/Kane, possibly Cena/Wyatt) and change the whole thing, so let's recapitulate. From my side:

1) Cesaro/Zayn, NXT Arrival, ****3/4
2) Shield/Wyatts, Elimination Chamber, ****1/2
3) HHH/Bryan, WrestleMania 30, ****1/2
4) Cena/Cesaro, Raw 2/17, ****1/4
5) Bryan/Wyatt, Royal Rumble, ****
6) Orton/Bryan/Batista, WrestleMania 30, ****
7) Shield/Wyatts, Main Event 4/8, ****
8) Shield/Wyatts, Raw 3/3, ****
9) Elimination Chamber, Elimination Chamber, ****
10) Orton/Bryan, Raw 2/3, ***3/4

Quite solid considering we're only 4 (almost 5) months in, right?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> I'll honestly be shocked if Wyatt wins at ER, after hearing that hideous interview Cena gave on Raw. They don't call John Cena a career killer for nothing, when you simply feed your hot acts to him like that. Sandow says hi.


:lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I wonder if that is a :lmao in agreeing or in a "shame on you" side. I know you Hayley, I know you do stuff like that.

:side:

Also, bad news for you: apparently KENTA is in talking w/the WWE.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I don't think Cena is a "career killer" or anything, but I also don't think having Bray lose to Cena again clean at ER would be a smart business deciscion. Cena winning at WM 30 didn't really hurt Bray at all, as a blind man could see Bray totally outshone Cena in that match and also it was clearly stated in the build Bray did not even care about winning, he just wanted to get into Cena's head. That said, the only reason I thought this feud was continuing was because I thought Bray was gonna get a big win, maybe clean but more likely dirty, over Cena which would make the finish at WM 30 make more sense. If they go the other direction at ER and give Cena a second clean win, well then I just don't know what in the fuck they could possibly be thinking. Cena doesn't gain ANYTHING by beating Bray again. Absolutely nothing. So that would be a curious decision to say the least. I think we either see a total schmoze if they are gonna continue this thing, or a dirty win for Bray. Just my .02


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

ATF said:


> Also, bad news for you: apparently KENTA is in talking w/the WWE.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> I wonder if that is a :lmao in agreeing or in a "shame on you" side. I know you Hayley, I know you do stuff like that.
> 
> :side:
> 
> Also, bad news for you: apparently KENTA is in talking w/the WWE.


It's probably the latter. Paramore fan doesn't call Cena out on his bullshit enough, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Except when it refers to that Cena/Sheamus cage match.

At the very least, KENTA coming to the WWE would mean that he will job in sub-five minute matches. So that's a win for some of us (including myself). I wouldn't be surprised if he heads off to NJPW with their already superstacked roster.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe...r_WWE_s_Upcoming_Batista_DVD_Blu-ray_Set.html



> - As noted, WWE will release their "Batista: The Animal Unleashed" DVD and Blu-ray on June 10th. WrestlingDVDNews.com has confirmed that the main feature will be a documentary with a runtime of no more than 50 minutes. The remainder of the set will be made up of matches and promos, beginning with Batista's days in OVW to present day WWE.
> 
> They have also confirmed the following matches will be included:
> 
> ...


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Another Booootista set sounds about as exciting as paint drying or an :axel set. 

Can Someone please post the Cesaro/Zayn matches from NXT? Please and thank you. 

:wyatt really needs to go over on :cena2 Sunday. Just have him escape the cage so the franchise does not get pinned and appear "weak". If :cena squashes :wyatt it kind of ruins his momentum in my opinion. I think they can have an incredible match. 

I really need to get more into NJPW. I love what I have seen though. 



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Cena mentioned SAMI ZAYN ON RAW.
> 
> k, that's all I got. :zayn3





Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm relatively surprised they gave away Sheamus/Wyatt for the first time on Main Event. That seems like a PPV quality match in my eyes. Oh well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KENTA has potential to be jobbed out. Can't believe he'd entertain the option.

and please. I don't even have to get into why someone chucking "career killer" on Cena is cringe-worthy. Is Sheamus one too after that shite booking on Monday? Of course not. Booking w/this company is generally ass. But no, it was def Cena who ruined Damien Sandow. Sandow was SO hot walking into that match vs John-boy. Best part is, that was Sandow's career match within WWE _(or ties vs Sheamus in one of their affairs)_ yet b/c he didn't move up the card following the loss, it is Cena's fault. Look to the things you type, people.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I hate to bring him up once again this week, but what about Barrett?

Actually scratch that. We are gonna talk about Super Calo. Are you aware that they had another match in WCW in 1996? It was a fun five minute sprint on Worldwide.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> KENTA has potential to be jobbed out. Can't believe he'd entertain the option.
> 
> and please. I don't even have to get into why someone chucking "career killer" on Cena is cringe-worthy. Is Sheamus one too after that shite booking on Monday? Of course not. Booking w/this company is generally ass. But no, it was def Cena who ruined Damien Sandow. Sandow was SO hot walking into that match vs John-boy. Best part is, that was Sandow's career match within WWE _(or ties vs Sheamus in one of their affairs)_ yet b/c he didn't move up the card following the loss, it is Cena's fault. Look to the things you type, people.



I agree wholeheartedly. Cena gave Sandow the best match of his career, he made him look GREAT. How exactly is it his fault that WWE Creative dropped the ball so completely with him? Is it Cena's fault that Creative decided to do fuck all with Henry after MitB and then Henry got injured? How about Daniel Bryan and CM Punk? Man their careers were MURDERED after being put with Cena, weren't they? Cena is way over protected with his booking but that has nothing to do with him. He said as much on Austin's podcast. Steve asked him if he would ever be interested in the booking part like Hunter is, and John said "No, I really don't have any input or desire to have any input. I just take what they give me and try to make it the best thing possible".

Plus, John went to bat for Bryan numerous times behind the scenes. Once in 2009 with Patterson to get Bryan rehired, and another time in 2013 when he helped convince Vince that they could main event Summerslam together. But none of that matters cause he buried Sandow and he's on his way to burying Bray, right?

Sandow is never going to be a main eventer. He's just not that guy. He can be a great mid card guy, but as of yet WWE doesn't seem to understand that just because a guy isn't main event material doesn't mean he's totally useless. Sorry for the double negative couldn't figure a way around it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

What about him? The fact its gone on record Cena said he should have put him over at SummerSlam but then ended up doing so at HIAC. Then it was on the rest of the company to follow up but instead let him (Barrett) continuously fall and fall and fall, _until_ right now where he's actually back in the limelight in his most over form since the Nexus days. WWE has Barrett looking good these days. I'm hoping they stick w/him and he can actually have a career w/this latest push. A program vs John Cena years ago means nothing. Going back to that is only my point of people making some egregious claims.

This is why I wished every piece of WCW TV was available. I'd find every gem I possibly could.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, in my defense, I will say that calling Cena a "career killer" is overreacting, it is most certainly creative's fault. In Sandow's case, yes, Cena gave him the best match of his career and made him look great. But Cena beating him = him losing MITB, and knowing creative's monkey ass writing, they had nothing for him from there on. In that case, what I really meant was that young up and comers in a feud with Cena is... well, never that good of an idea. Because Cena winning is ALWAYS a possibility. Same case with the Nexus in 2010 - defeated at SummerSlam that year, and afterwards, writers had barely something going for them. They eventually came up with having Cena join them... only for the pokey "Cena is fired" thing. And it most certainly happens in a good deal of times, it's like part of creative thinks at times, even though it does nothing for Cena, the guy he beat or the show itself. And that feeling shocked me after seeing Cena needlessly beat Bray Wyatt at WM (which didn't hurt him, admitedly) and more probably winning too again at ER, rendering Wyatt's momentum almost meaningless by then - that WOULD most surely hurt him. There were a few that survived (Punk and Bryan as mentioned), but usually, doesn't happen. Cena may be a workhorse, and not faulty of the horrible booking, but he's one of those guys I don't trust the WWE in putting a young up and comer I'm a fan of against in a feud. Just my feeling though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE has adapted to the method that we all know - working w/Cena is big exposure. They rely on that the entire way. Result be damned is their view, they just want to see if "x" can hang. Although, once all is said and done, they usually flop w/whomever they put next to Cena for the last program. Which is quite irksome when you'd think the reason some of the guys were placed vs Cena was meant to elevate them entirely. Not only for a few months.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

*Audio Glitch*

I’m watching The Ultimate Collection DVD and for some reason, WWE’s video department edited out commentary by Schiavone, Heenan, and Tenay during Warrior’s entrance for his final WCW appearance (Nitro • October 26, 1998) and because somebody wasn’t paying attention, it sounds like Warrior’s mic is cutting out for half of his promo! It wasn’t like this on the original broadcast.

:cussin:

- Vic


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*The Rock vs 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin (WWF Wrestlemania 17)* ****1/2

Ill always love this match, always. IMO, one of, if not the, best AE match. I was one who actually liked Austin's heel turn, but watching it just, a bit of me wanted him to stunner Vince at the end. 

I also forgot about the crowd too, there was a noticeable section who booed The Rock throughout the match, with hardly any for Austin (apart from the end of course). Oh, and not, this is not me hating on the fucking Rock either, i watched the original WWF DVD UNEDITED DVD and know what the fuck i was hearing. (before a Rock mark chimes in).


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> *The Rock vs 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin (WWF Wrestlemania 17)* ****1/2
> 
> Ill always love this match, always. IMO, one of, if not the, best AE match. I was one who actually liked Austin's heel turn, but watching it just, a bit of me wanted him to stunner Vince at the end.
> 
> I also forgot about the crowd too, there was a noticeable section who booed The Rock throughout the match, with hardly any for Austin (apart from the end of course). Oh, and not, this is not me hating on the fucking Rock either, i watched the original WWF DVD UNEDITED DVD and know what the fuck i was hearing. (before a Rock mark chimes in).


I thought that more than a section booed The Rock. It was pretty heavily an Austin crowd, which is no surprise, since it was his home state. Rock did get some cheers, though.

It was a bad idea to do the heel turn there, but obviously WM was booked in that venue way in advance, so....guess there's nothing they could have done about that, if they wanted it to happen on the biggest stage.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> I thought that more than a section booed The Rock. It was pretty heavily an Austin crowd, which is no surprise, since it was his home state. Rock did get some cheers, though.


Yeah, the home crowd was a factor lol.  Forgot it was in Austin's home for a minute, still.

House Show upload. 

*Shawn Michaels vs Vader (WWF House Show Ontario, Canada) (04.08.1996)*

x1sbbhr


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cena's not a career killer, but he put the final nail in Sandow's coffin. Sandow has all the tools to be a main eventer, and while he was getting buried long before his match with Cena, he still had the briefcase to keep him afloat. Once he fought and lost to Cena, he didn't have that anymore, and so in a way, it was a burial in itself. Now obviously, that was creative's decision, not Cena's, but when you fight a Cena at less than 50%, who just returned from an injury and had his arm attacked mercilessly, and then you still lose, that's a burial. You have Sandow fight a Cena at 100% and have the match he had, and even in defeat, that's a rub, but the circumstances around that match change all that.

Now as for Wyatt, Cena beating Wyatt at Mania is an example of the above... Wyatt gave Cena just as much, if not more of a fight than Sandow, and Cena was 100% going into the Mania match. Even in defeat, Wyatt still looked good, and looked like he could've beaten Cena. He looked on Cena's level. However, that only works once, and if Wyatt does lose again, clean, then where does Wyatt go? Down to the mid-card, which is a burial in a way as prior to the feud with Cena, he was on an up trend to the top. 

However, I think Cena will put over Wyatt at ER and then maybe at Payback to solidfy Wyatt as a main eventer, and then Wyatt can go after the title/maybe face Undertaker at Summerslam if Taker's ready for that by then.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

It feels weird that I'm actually excited for a WWE pay per view.

It must be because Wade :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't see Taker wrestling at Summerslam. I'd love to be wrong though. A Taker/Wyatt feud/match at Summerslam with Sting showing up would just be :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Cena's not a career killer, but he put the final nail in Sandow's coffin. Sandow has all the tools to be a main eventer, and while he was getting buried long before his match with Cena, he still had the briefcase to keep him afloat. Once he fought and lost to Cena, he didn't have that anymore, and so in a way, it was a burial in itself. Now obviously, that was creative's decision, not Cena's, but when you fight a Cena at less than 50%, who just returned from an injury and had his arm attacked mercilessly, and then you still lose, that's a burial. You have Sandow fight a Cena at 100% and have the match he had, and even in defeat, that's a rub, but the circumstances around that match change all that.
> 
> Now as for Wyatt, Cena beating Wyatt at Mania is an example of the above... Wyatt gave Cena just as much, if not more of a fight than Sandow, and Cena was 100% going into the Mania match. Even in defeat, Wyatt still looked good, and looked like he could've beaten Cena. He looked on Cena's level. However, that only works once, and if Wyatt does lose again, clean, then where does Wyatt go? Down to the mid-card, which is a burial in a way as prior to the feud with Cena, he was on an up trend to the top.
> 
> However, I think Cena will put over Wyatt at ER and then maybe at Payback to solidfy Wyatt as a main eventer, and then Wyatt can go after the title/maybe face Undertaker at Summerslam if Taker's ready for that by then.




I just don't see Sandow as a Main Event type guy, and I really, really, do enjoy him. I love how he was starting to get more aggressive and ruthless with his ring work, and I was starting to think he'd be working in that upper mid card, main event maybe once or twice, spot like Sheamus, ADR, Henry, and Big Show slot. I just don't see him ever being on the same tier as a Cena, Bryan, Punk, Orton, etc. But that's just me. Regardless, he's right there with Ziggler and Henry as the most wasted talent on the roster at the moment. Tell me, exactly, why can't they just do a random Ziggler/Sandow mid card feud? What is the hurt in that? They have 5+ hours of television to fill, and they are seriously over saturating the Authority and Bryan at the moment. What would it hurt to dedicate say 20 minutes a week to Sandow and Ziggler? The answer is, nothing, it wouldn't hurt anything. It's just Creative doesn't have the capacity to do more than 2-3 feuds at a time. They think the fans are stupid and can't keep track with multiple feuds. Whatever. I'm done bitching about WWE's writing because nothing will ever change and I'd rather try and focus on the few good things they are doing.

If we are calling the Attitude Era the time period between early 1998 and the start of the Invasion Angle after WM 17, the Rock/Austin WM 17 would definitely be a top 5 match in that time period. I simply love the entire feel and execution of that match. I liked Austin's heel turn at the time, and it gave us some truly awesome matchups with Angle and Benoit. I don't see why everyone shits on it so much, just because buy rates went down a bit? Who cares when he is killing it in the ring like that every week. Loved his character at that time too, added another dimension to the Stone Cold persona.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I just don't see Sandow as a Main Event type guy, and I really, really, do enjoy him. I love how he was starting to get more aggressive and ruthless with his ring work, and I was starting to think he'd be working in that upper mid card, main event maybe once or twice, spot like Sheamus, ADR, Henry, and Big Show slot. I just don't see him ever being on the same tier as a Cena, Bryan, Punk, Orton, etc. But that's just me. Regardless, he's right there with Ziggler and Henry as the most wasted talent on the roster at the moment. Tell me, exactly, why can't they just do a random Ziggler/Sandow mid card feud? What is the hurt in that? They have 5+ hours of television to fill, and they are seriously over saturating the Authority and Bryan at the moment. What would it hurt to dedicate say 20 minutes a week to Sandow and Ziggler? The answer is, nothing, it wouldn't hurt anything. It's just Creative doesn't have the capacity to do more than 2-3 feuds at a time. They think the fans are stupid and can't keep track with multiple feuds. Whatever. I'm done bitching about WWE's writing because nothing will ever change and I'd rather try and focus on the few good things they are doing.


When I say "main event" I mean a guy who at the very least jumps into main event feuds, will win the title maybe or once or twice, and otherwise remain relatively protected. Someone I could see being a threat to the top guys, even if he doesn't always win. Now, if he could go higher than that and be solidified as one of the top guys in current time, then that would be awesome, but I'd just like at least a minimum of him being a go-to guy for main event feuds and even for titles, similar to Jericho. I simply can't stand them treating Sandow, of all the guys they have, as they are. Boggles the mind.

I'm hoping with Barrett becoming IC champ, they'll start treating it more seriously and actually build a feud around it like they'd do for the World Title each month... though I know better than that.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

They're doing a feud with Ziggler and Sandow now, and they did one before last year that was kinda fun.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

I've only seen a small number of KENTA matches since his heel turn, none of which i enjoyed.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Bryan and Henry had an AWESOME cage match on Smackdown in late 2011....that's the last one I can remember being a big fan of. The quality of Cena/Bray is going to be based entirely on how interesting a control segment Bray can work. I'd like to see a good, methodical, destruction of a Cena type deal with Cena bumping around and really putting over Brays offense before the inevitable firey comeback. I don't want it to be a back and forth thing. They need to make it seem like Bray is at home in the confines of the cage. They can continue with the story of Bray trying to bring the monster out of Cena if they want, I really dug it at WM.


I was disappointed in Bryan/Henry when i first saw it.
The story of Bray bringing out the monster was enjoyable but the action at times imo brought the match down.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Vengeance 2001 review*

Review got deletedjose) so here are the ratings 

Scotty 2 Hotty and Albert / Test & Christian: **
Regal/Edge: ***1/2 
Hardy/Hardy: DUD 
Dudleys/Big show and Kane: **3/4 
Taker/RVD: ***3/4 
Jaqueline/Trish: NO 
Angle/Austin: 1/4*
Rock/Jericho: 1/2*
Austin/Jericho: *

*CAL SCALE: 7.5 *

*Current 2001 ppv rankings 
*
1: Invasion(15) 
2: King of the ring(13) 
3: Judgment day 
4: No way out(9)
5: Vengeance(7.5)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> *
> Angle/Austin: 1/4*
> Rock/Jericho: 1/2*
> Austin/Jericho: **


*

Damn. I guess this is where Austin's real magic ran out?*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hey guys, I'm new to this thread can any of you recommend me some Dustin Rhodes ( Goldust) matches ?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

NAITCH said:


> Hey guys, I'm new to this thread


You can't fool us.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That Austin/Angle Vengeance match was just bleh. Possibly a bigger disgrace than Taker/Austin Backlash.

Just for fun, I'll try to guess the order of the Extreme Rules card:

Pre-show: Hornswoggle/Torito
Opener: Big E/Barrett
Match #2: RVD/Swagger/Cesaro
Match #3: Cena/Wyatt
Match #4: Paige/Tamina
Match #5: Shield/Evolution
Match #6: Truth & Woods/Rusev
Main Event: Bryan/Kane

I'm confident Bryan/Kane will ME, even though there is somewhat of a bigger spotlight on Shield/Evolution as expected.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

NAITCH said:


> Hey guys, I'm new to this thread can any of you recommend me some Dustin Rhodes ( Goldust) matches ?



:lmao best gimmick ever.

Have you seen Vader/Dustin COTC, Arn/Dustin Saturday Night, Dustin/Bunkhouse Buck SS94', BookDust/UnAmericans SS02', Goldust/Razor RR, Dustin/Steamboat vs Arn/Zybysko


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

NAITCH said:


> Hey guys, I'm new to this thread can any of you recommend me some Dustin Rhodes ( Goldust) matches ?


:lel


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The worst part of the Cena "career killing" nonsense is the idiots who blame him for Ziggler's downfall even though three months after their mini-feud, Ziggler just cashed in his MITB briefcase successfully. "BUT IT WAS THAT STEEL CAGE MATCH NO ONE REMEMBERS THAT BURIED ZIGGLER!!!!"


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Hitman said:


> You can't fool us.





The Rabid Wolverine said:


> :lmao best gimmick ever.
> 
> Have you seen Vader/Dustin COTC, *Arn/Dustin Saturday Night*,* Dustin/Bunkhouse Buck SS94*', *BookDust/UnAmericans SS02*', Goldust/Razor RR, Dustin/Windham vs Austin/Zybysko


Worth a shot :lol 


Ive seen the bolded ones, isnt there like 10 of those wcw tags ? I found the steamboat/vader "human cage match last night but saving it for later

-----------

To just add to what was kinda of discussed earlier, its actually quite hilarious how much Del Rio has mailed it in the past few months, guy isnt even trying to have decent matches anymore




Edit: He didnt bury him, but he didnt make him look any good in that specific match, iirc Ziggler hit him w/ 4 Zig Zag's to one Cena AA to a clean pin


Problem isnt Cena, its just booking doesnt do anything with these guys after they feud with him. I dont like Sandow and Barrett AT ALL so I couldnt care less


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

There you go SKINS, shit i mean NAITCH,


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

This is the one I was talking about, no idea why I subbed in Windham and Austin instead of Arn and Steamboat, don't know where my head was:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...t-dustin-rhodes-wcw-clash-17-19-11-1991_sport


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just watched Sheamus/Wyatt, awesome match,would probably go ***1/4 for it, maybe more


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Those sure are low ratings for the Vengeance main events :C, I remember liking them a lot more.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rewatched Backlash 2000 just because :

Edge&Christian/DX- ***
Malenko/Scotty 2 Hotty- ***1/2
Boss Man&Buchanan/Acolytes- **1/4
Hardcore Title Match- **1/2
Angle/Show- N/A
T&A/Dudley Boyz- **
Eddie/Essa Rios- ***1/2
Benoit/Jericho- ****, aside from the ending this was awesome
Rock/HHH- ****1/4

Still the best show of 2000 in my books


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

** for T&A/Dudleys and ***1/2 for Eddie/Essa? You high bro?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Essa/Eddie sucks BRO 

Cal when is the next 2004 PPV coming? Want to know your thoughts on SS 2004


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It's coming whenever I feel like sitting through a full event. Which atm ain't any time soon.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I feel you, after 2001 reviews I have the dreaded 2003 reviews to do, which dont really sound like a walk in the park outside of about 5 shows


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> Also, bad news for you: apparently KENTA is in talking w/the WWE.


This could be good, honestly. If anything will bring out KENTA's strong points while pushing his weak points aside, it's Yoshihiro Takayama. But WWE could do it, too. KENTA at his worst is disgustingly hard to watch, but at his best is a really good worker. And I've never even liked him.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Unfortunately its nothing to do with the shows/cards/wrestlers/wrestling in general that's making me not want to watch them lol. Stupid shitty life!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

2004 reviews took me like 2 months because I was so bored with the quality of the shows, I went in order for some reason and after Backlash it was basically a bunch of shitty/one match shows until SVS and then a HORRIBLE Armageddon show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

When I get back in the mood for it I'll be going in order with what I have left, so Vengeance, SummerSlam, No Mercy and then Survivor Series (ending on a :mark: show).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Is two months a long time to watch and write about every PPV of a single year? I literally don't remember the month I started 2010. :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Why are you not talking about Super Calo? Or at the very least, talk about La Parka.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

It usually takes me about a month- a month and a half to do all of a year on PPV, think 2000 took a month. 

How far are you on that MITB 2010 review?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> Is two months a long time to watch and write about every PPV of a single year? I literally don't remember the month I started 2010. :lmao


Well it's fucking GREAT considering how most of our projects are dead by then .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> It usually takes me about a month- a month and a half to do all of a year on PPV, think 2000 took a month.
> 
> How far are you on that MITB 2010 review?


Watched like three matches and didn't write about them. So when the time comes to write them about them I am going to be totally lost.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> Watched like three matches and didn't write about them. So when the time comes to write them about them I am going to be totally lost.


You might have a better opinion of some of the matches if you forget what happened 8*D.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That show MIGHT be the best one of the year, pretty sure NOC is the only show that may be better, I like both MITB matches, and both title matches, with Rey/Swagger being AWESOME IIRC.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rey/Swagger downgraded from awesome to good on most recent watch. Damn you Mysterio and your one fatal flaw! But the rest of the show minus the main event rules. I think I prefer it over Night of Champions, but both are very strong shows.

But Super Calo.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> When I get back in the mood for it I'll be going in order with what I have left, so Vengeance, SummerSlam, No Mercy and then Survivor Series (ending on a :mark: show).



You're still on 2003? I always felt No Mercy was the best PPV top to bottom that year, to be honest the only thing I remember about SVS 2003 was the big Bischoff vs Austin blowoff and HBK's ridiculous blade job. What else is good from that show?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Has anyone else watched the network countdown of the top 10 best tag teams? Has me in a mood for some tag matches. Pretty ridiculous the British Bulldogs were #7. 



Choke2Death said:


> "BUT IT WAS THAT STEEL CAGE MATCH NO ONE REMEMBERS THAT BURIED ZIGGLER!!!!"


Was that the one on Raw? If so I remember it being awesome. The ladder match at TLC was awesome IIRC. I kind of agree with you about this burying Dolph. Had Dolph NOT got a concussion I wonder if he would have had a legit WHC reign. I :lol soooo hard during Raw when Dolph said he has been kicked harder by Jack Swagger.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hes on 2004 Cjack 

Watching Sting/Regal GAB for the first time


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I vaguely recall liking the Cena/Ziggler ladder match. Their series of TV matches at the start of 2013 on the other hand, nah. Not good.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Liked Cena/Ziggler ladder math quite a bit. Ziggler going on last on a PPV against John Cena and actually winning the match was sweet, and I thought it made Ziggler look more "legitimate" despite the nature of his win. Match itself was fun, and the atmosphere was great.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I thought the ladder match set the table for a cash in down the run and a really fun 3-4 month heel WHC run from Dolph. Oh wait. fpalm

Watching my favorite Survivor Series elimination match which is Team WWF vs the Alliance in 2001. Love this match but thought it was fucking stupid for :angle2 to tap out to the God awful sharpshooter of :rock2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Angle only submitted b/c he was the mole and it provided to help out Team WWF.

---------

Swagger vs Mysterio is the highlight of MITB 2010. Still a good show from top to bottom for me. Best 2010 produced, anyways.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Big Show's ladder and Drew McIntyre teasing winning the MITB were the highlights. Oh, and Kane smiting Rey Mysterio. Tis a shame that Kane's title reign was not very good. In fact, the only title reigns in 2010 that were worth a damn were from The Miz and Daniel Bryan. THE MIZ!

Sheamus/Wyatt is good. I may dislike face Sheamus, but I sure am gonna miss him wrestling as a face months from now when he finally turns. I enjoyed Wade Barrett killing UC as well. And I have hope for the Rhodes brothers breakup so long as Cody becomes a member of Evolution. Which basically means that I have little hope.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I kind of like the idea of Cody being added to Evolution. It would be cool to add a new member. My only apprehension with Cody doing it is Cody was a good douchebag heel but Evolution (though douchey) can beat you up too and I just don't buy Cody as a tough guy. I think Beth Phoenix would legit beat his ass. 

:ambrose as a face is just weird to me. If they let this storyline progress he joins say at MitB that would be a decent idea. He could always "go crazy" later and return to his loner heel ways. 




Hayley Seydoux said:


> Angle only submitted b/c he was the mole and it provided to help out Team WWF.


That he was. Watching :angle2 vs :austin2 at Vengeance 2001 now. 

Was it addressed later on a Raw or Smackdown that :angle2 tapped on purpose? I can't remember. Even if he didn't it makes sense with him turning on the Alliance.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^^watched that earlier, match is fucking terrible


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

ATF said:


> But back to some positivity, just before Extreme Rules rolls on, top 10 matches of the year? Because if anything, there are three, maybe four matches with potential to get in there (RVD/Swagger/Cesaro, Shield/Evolution and Bryan/Kane, possibly Cena/Wyatt) and change the whole thing, so let's recapitulate. From my side:
> 
> 1) Cesaro/Zayn, NXT Arrival, ****3/4
> 2) Shield/Wyatts, Elimination Chamber, ****1/2
> ...


Decided I would show off my WWE Top 10 this far into the year, just a heads up my rating system is totally different, so hopefully I won't get punched in the face 

1) Shield/Wyatts 2/23/14 *****
2) Cesaro/Zayn 2/27/14 ****3/4
3) Wyatt/Bryan 1/26/14 ****1/2
4) Elimination Chamber Match 2/23/14 ****1/2
5) Cena/Wyatt 4/06/14 ****1/2
6) HHH/Bryan 4/06/14 ****1/4
7) Orton/Batista/Bryan 4/06/14 ****1/4
8) Cena/Sheamus/Bryan vs The Shield 1/27/14 ****1/4
9) Cena/Cesaro 2/17/14 ****1/4
10) Shield/Wyatts 4/08/14 ****1/4

Yup, didn't even get into my **** matches for WWE this year, also I watch all matches I give a ****1/4+ at least twice just to make sure I don't super over hype it, I know a lot of people won't agree with this list in the slightest though lol


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

VEN 2003 or NM 2003?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Neither, I choose both b/c they're real good. Each event has a match I was unfortunately disappointed by tho. Interesting how the workers involved flip it over on each show, respectively.

Vengeance had the great stuff from Taker & Brock _(disliked their chain match)_
No Mercy had the great Benoit match & good Eddie match _(disliked their championship match from Vengeance)_

Never noticed that before.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The best match is that Tag Titles match from Vengeance 03 :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

YES


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Who was it here that blasphemized against Billy Kidman? I wanna say that it was either Cal or the man they call Jheri.

It's probably Cal. After all, in his eyes, the cruiserweights can cruiser-wait! :calsmiley


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Billy Kidman was awesome, Kidman should still be on the roster over Kofi 8*D


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Anyone on this side of Konnan should be on the roster instead of UC. Especially since GOAT broke up with him. Billy still does lots of backstage work now. I did enjoy seeing both Titus and Barrett kill UC this month. Now let's all watch Big Show kill UC.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Who the hell is UC?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Titus O'Neil is the man.

also, I feel like Mysterio vs Tajiri from No Mercy 2003 is getting a lack of appreciation. How many other Cruiserweight matches were better than that in 2003? Maybe Mysterio vs Hardy in San Diego. The only definitive competition off the top of my head. Mind is running wild atm so the thought process isn't 100% currently, but yeah, Mysterio vs Tajiri is the tops.

Tyler it is a nickname penned for Kofi Kingston by some certain people and now being overused to fashion that nobody wants to see it anymore. UC = useless cunt.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ask your brother/sister. While you're at it, ask him/her/it what he/she thought of Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Ric Flair. Has to be among the most disappointing matches ever.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Titus O'Neil is the man.
> 
> also, I feel like Mysterio vs Tajiri from No Mercy 2003 is getting a lack of appreciation. How many other Cruiserweight matches were better than that in 2003? Maybe Mysterio vs Hardy in San Diego. The only definitive competition off the top of my head. Mind is running wild atm so the thought process isn't 100% currently, but yeah, Mysterio vs Tajiri is the tops.
> 
> Tyler it is a nickname penned for Kofi Kingston by some certain people and now being overused to fashion that nobody wants to see it anymore. UC = useless cunt.


Don't refer to me by first name like we know each other :side:

Titus is the man, he needs a damn program though


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Midcarders w/a program. That'll be the day.

And I don't remember much of anything from the original SuperBrawl. Except for the fabulous tag team championship match & Anderson vs Eaton. Oh and that Stretch match. Can't forget that.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Titus O'Neil is a future WWE World Heavyweight Champion


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Alim said:


> Titus O'Neil is a future WWE World Heavyweight Champion


I wish that to be true, but I highly doubt that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Be happy that it appears Wade almost has a better chance at the impossible dream. 8*D


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

William Murderface said:


> I wish that to be true, but I highly doubt that.


That's what they said about guys like Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, The Miz, and many others.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Alim said:


> That's what they said about guys like Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, The Miz, and many others.


I think Wade has a better chance & I'm still skeptical that will happen.

If it does happen though I will be more then happy (Y)


----------



## Superhippy (Jan 28, 2014)

William Murderface said:


> I wish that to be true, but I highly doubt that.


This is why I think the WHC should still be separate. They could give Titus an IC title reign to see how he is as champ but IC title reigns havn't elevated anyone for a decade. I would love to see a Titus WHC run just to see what he could bring to the table as a champion.



Tanner1495 said:


> Decided I would show off my WWE Top 10 this far into the year, just a heads up my rating system is totally different, so hopefully I won't get punched in the face
> 
> 1) Shield/Wyatts 2/23/14 *****
> 2) Cesaro/Zayn 2/27/14 ****3/4
> ...


I think the bottom line is that there has been a shit-ton of great wrestling in the WWE this year. I agree with most of your ratings except for Cesaro v. Zayn part 2. I watched it again the other day and it is a really good match but it was a little more lopsided then I remember. ****1/4 from me. Shield v. Wyatt's is a legit 5 star candidate too. It's a shame it didn't happen at Wrestlemania because it would have been a top 5 all time Mania match.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

No Way Out 2001
HHH vs Austin
3 Stages of Hell
**** (4 stars)

This was a great match. Lots of destruction. Great storytelling. The build-up was phenomenal. Both wrestlers took a beating. Austin recycled some of his moves which was noticeable. Strike, strike, Lou Thesz knuckles, elbow, repeat. But thats all forgiven. Just so much passion in the performers and from the crowd. So much hate into each other. Hunter's table bump was ridiculous. He had height and the Spanish table RIP lol. I didnt like how Austin stunnered HHH after the match. It didnt suit the setting, he could have done it the following night. That was Triple H's moment.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That 3 Stages Of Hell match is such a guilty pleasure. It seems that match is secretely winning a cult over here 8*D

Oh, and I haven't a proper reason as to why I haven't given Shield/Wyatts over ****1/2 as it deserves. Not many matches can be rewatched a million times and still feel fresh and chaotically pumping. Maybe... because it could've gone a little longer, or maybe bec... I don't know, I just felt that was overrating it a bit.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Who was it here that blasphemized against Billy Kidman? I wanna say that it was either Cal or the man they call Jheri.
> 
> It's probably Cal. After all, in his eyes, the cruiserweights can cruiser-wait! :calsmiley




I asked Cody for Perry Saturn matches b/c I don't like Saturn and wanted to see why people thought he was good. I still have the matches he listed on my to-watch list. What are matches where Kidman looks really good? I've seen like 7 or 8 Juvi matches and didn't think he was either really good or bad in them. Seen Starrcade 98. I still can't find a link to the Tajiri match from Backlash 02. What else?



Hayley Seydoux said:


> also, I feel like Mysterio vs Tajiri from No Mercy 2003 is getting a lack of appreciation. How many other Cruiserweight matches were better than that in 2003?


Rey and Tajiri might have had a better match on SD the same month.......maybe. I could just be getting it confused with 1/1/04 (which technically happened in 2003). Was the date of No Mercy 9/23/03? I'm pretty sure they had a match on that date but I'm not sure if that's the date of the PPV.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Ask your brother/sister. While you're at it, ask him/her/it what he/she thought of Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Ric Flair. Has to be among the most disappointing matches ever.


Which one did you watch? I don't think either is as good as it could have been but IIRC one is much, much, much, much better than the other.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Leon Knuckles said:


> No Way Out 2001
> HHH vs Austin
> 3 Stages of Hell
> **** (4 stars)
> ...


BIG guilty pleasure of mine, still love it to this day. Not a massive fan of the first fall, that is just there to get it out of the way IMO, but the final two falls are great. Oh it was already HHH's moment lol, he just fucking beat Austin, when most will claim Austin should have probably picked up the win.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I remember the Ziggler vs. Cena match. Really liked it, great crowd and all. I, too, thought it'd be the take off of Ziggler's main event run and set up the Wrestlemania cash in, but nope. Night after cash in, concussion, short reign leading to where he is today.

That match wasn't even the best match on that show though. Shield vs. Ryback and Team Hell No :mark:



ATF said:


> I'll honestly be shocked if Wyatt wins at ER, after hearing that hideous interview Cena gave on Raw. They don't call John Cena a career killer for nothing, when you simply feed your hot acts to him like that. Sandow says hi.
> 
> But back to some positivity, just before Extreme Rules rolls on, top 10 matches of the year? Because if anything, there are three, maybe four matches with potential to get in there (RVD/Swagger/Cesaro, Shield/Evolution and Bryan/Kane, possibly Cena/Wyatt) and change the whole thing, so let's recapitulate. From my side:
> 
> ...


1) The Wyatt Family vs. The Shield, Elimination Chamber - ****3/4
2) Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan, Wrestlemania XXX - ****1/2
3) Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn, NXT ArRival - ****1/2
4) Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt, Royal Rumble - ****1/4
5) The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Main Event 04/08/14 - ****1/4
6) John Cena vs. Cesaro, Raw 02/17/14 - ****1/4
7) Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Raw 02/03/14 - ****
8) Elimination Chamber match, Elimination Chamber - ****
9) Cesaro vs. Randy Orton, Smackdown 02/14/14 - ****
10) The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Raw 03/03/14 - ****


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For the sake of it, I'm gonna go on a *Money In The Bank marathon*.

As far as I know, my current top 5 seats as:
1) WrestleMania 21, ****1/2
2) Smackdown 2011, ****1/2
3) Smackdown 2013, ****1/4
4) WrestleMania 24, ****
5) Smackdown 2010, ****

Maybe it could change.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

MITB 1 is such a masterpiece, ****3/4 for me personally. Benoit with his spectacular babyface performance and Edge initializing a character revamp through being an "opportunistic" seedy bastard.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I asked Cody for Perry Saturn matches b/c I don't like Saturn and wanted to see why people thought he was good. I still have the matches he listed on my to-watch list. What are matches where Kidman looks really good? I've seen like 7 or 8 Juvi matches and didn't think he was either really good or bad in them. Seen Starrcade 98. I still can't find a link to the Tajiri match from Backlash 02. What else?
> 
> 
> 
> Rey and Tajiri might have had a better match on SD the same month.......maybe. I could just be getting it confused with 1/1/04 (which technically happened in 2003). Was the date of No Mercy 9/23/03? I'm pretty sure they had a match on that date but I'm not sure if that's the date of the PPV.


Do tags count? b/c both w/Mysterio vs Team Angle are must sees. Did you ever see Kidman vs Whipwreck from Uncensored 1999? I'd give that a look too.

I don't even remember what Saturn matches I gave you. Ha.

I knew they had another one in 2003 & that probably could have been the other competition. It's the same two dudes so I guess I scoffed it off as being nearly the same thing _(not the match itself, but the idea that Tajiri vs Mysterio was the definitive stuff to come from 2003, more so)_ January 2004 match is 2003 too, but it all depends on if you choose to acknowledge the air date or date it was taped. Which is something I sometimes struggle to choose myself. Like w/Lucha & Puro it's always date it actually happened. WWE I tend to go by air date b/c I guess it's usually guaranteed to show up a few days later. I've never actually understood why I go by this.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WTF. :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, considering that my MITB marathon was temporarily stalled by a... exercise walk o), I have only rewatched two ones yet.

The WM 21 still is the beast it always has been. It mixed perfectly the character work of six different guys (all of them great) with all the crazy ass spots you'd expect from a 6-man Ladder match. I'm still blown away by Benjamin running up the ladder and Clotheslining Jericho off the top. Benjamin was awesome. Benoit was probably the Star of the Match, his performance was a beautiful work of babyface, his arm selling amazing, and his Diving Headbutt off the ladder... man. That right there has to be one of the sickest AND saddest spots of all time given what transpired. Great stuff.

And WM 22 is my most watched MITB match ever (WM 22 overall I've watched by the hundreds of times), and even though I used to always think this match, regardless of how awesome it was, was dissapointing too considering the previous year's quality, this rewatch really made me appreciate better what was going on. The shortest MITB match ever I believe, but also arguably the craziest. Flair (who was the SOTM)'s Superplex spot was NUTS. Chicago was NUTS for this match, especially for RVD. This whole thing was nuts, but it had a perfect flow and always kept a very consistent pace.

So far:
WM 21: ****1/2
WM 22: ****

WM 23 and 24 next.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I'd give WM22 a ***1/4, thought it was a mess and lacked structure but still fun nonetheless. Flair is probably WOTY for 2005/2006.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> I'd give WM22 a ***1/4, thought it was a mess and lacked structure but still fun nonetheless. Flair is probably WOTY for 2005/2006.


Bryan Danielson.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, WM 23's MITB can surely be called the original All-Stars MITB. Edge, Orton, Punk, the Hardys, Booker, Finlay and the not so all-star but still relevant Kennedy (how ironic given who won this match). And similarly to the All-Stars MITB, this one took a far more methodical approach to it than the previous two MITB matches. I disagree with MyNameIsJonMarston in that WM 22 lacked structure (the structure was simply built perfectly upon each of the wrestlers' characters, from the initial Bobby Lashley domination all the way until RVD outsmarting Matt and Shelton and winning), but you could argue for this lacking. Also, there was plenty of stupidity in between (i.e. Booker doing a Spinaroonie just because, or Jeff Hardy being inches away from winning and instead just killing himself). Still, the much slower pace allowed for the big plunges to be given their deserved separated Holy Shit grace to them, and those big plunges were quite BIG. And I was a fan of some of the guys going on a finisher fest against the others. SOTM was a hard choice given how no guy truly stood out, but I'll give it to Finlay since he wrestled a smarter match than everyone. Great MITB again, only probably not for everyone.

CURRENT RANKING:
WrestleMania 21: ****1/2
WrestleMania 22: ****
WrestleMania 23: ***3/4

STAR OF THE MATCH:
WM 21: Chris Benoit
WM 22: Ric Flair
WM 23: Finlay

WM 24 is one of my favorites. Let's see how it holds up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 22 MITB sucks. HARD. Finlay was WOTY for 2006 in WWE. Flair didn't do much of anything in 06 that I remember aside from TLC with Edge which is great.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> Bryan Danielson.


WWE exclusively baby, WOOOOOOO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WM 24's MITB was, well, an absolute demolition derby. Or, in more comprehensive words, a pure breed spotfest. Which, brothers and sisters of the mess and structure argument, should be expected in a 6/7/8/whatever man Ladder match. Not every multiman Ladder match can be MITB I or the Triangle Ladder match. But I can totally understand why the people circling this thread would certainly have a problem with it. If WM 23 sort-of lacked a structure to it, WM 24 definitely did. This one was certainly all about spectacle. Massive spots were constant here, and while some if not all looked magnificiently BRUTAL, in the long term they were really just there. Only bits of true personality for the match came in the form of Matt Hardy's return to screw over MVP (which granted a huge pop), and the last bit with Punk, starting from the callback to WM 23's ending to this own's ending. However, the match does also gain points for its inumerous big moments, with Morrison's mindblowing Ladder moonsault being the standout. SOTM here has to go to Shelton, for, well, being Shelton. Two of the bumps he took - the SuperPowerbombplex of Doom, and him crashing through a ladder Edge/Hardy style - were NASTY. Very good, but certainly the worst one so far, and a dissapointment considering my previous feelings.

RANKING SO FAR:
WrestleMania 21: ****1/2
WrestleMania 22: ****
WrestleMania 23: ***3/4
WrestleMania 24: ***1/2

STAR OF THE MATCH:
WM 21: Chris Benoit
WM 22: Ric Flair
WM 23: Finlay
WM 24: Shelton Benjamin

Next, WM 25 and 26, arguably the two most underrated MITB matches ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

More like those two aren't really special and about half or a quarter of the talent involved adds zero to the match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just got a belated birthday present in the post. New Foley Bluray complete with MR SOCKO!!! I like how they came in separate packaging... the Bluray in CARDBOARD and the sock in A PADDED ENVELOPE.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks to the addition of Mark Henry (and to a much lesser end, Kane), WM 25's MITB immediatly had a different aura to it than the previous one. It felt like it would have more of a story to tell, given the presence of one gargantuan beast who'd surely dominate the competition but wouldn't be so succesful climbing a ladder. For your interest, Mark Henry was the very first "fattie" ever to enter MITB, and it was an impressive debut sure. However, I'm sad to say that outside of a few moments of Henry being Henry, he just wasn't there for too much. That being said, this match felt like a mix of WM 23's methodical and WM 24's all-out paces, and the end result was a satisfying but ultimely somewhat disjointed and messy match. I wasn't much of a fan of the whole "guy does one spot, next guy does bigger spot" thingy the very moment Shelton decided to take one of his big leaps of faith, as stunning as they are, and it got even worse when Hornswoggle did his own. Plus, there was at least one very noticeable botch out there in the way. But, whenever Mark Henry was there, it ruled (too bad it wasn't that much). The ending sequence was very good too. And Punk winning for the 2nd time in a row made history. SOTM goes to, predictably, Henry. Though Kofi Kingston, as unpopular as this might sound, would be runner-up I guess. This was very good overall, sure, and an ever so slight step-up from the previous year.

The curtain call for WM MITB matches was WM 26, the biggest one yet with 10 men involved. And also probably the most unpredictable one, given that there were a lot of people with just as much chance of winning as the next guy. This match certainly corrected the mistake of WM 25's experiment of combining different MITB match paces into one, by simply sticking to WM 24's all-out style. But at the same time, it was also trying to pull a WM 21/22 by showcasing the characters themselves. That pretty much doomed the match, because TEN GUYS having to be showcased = a match whose flow is completely all over the place. Oh yeah. And it didn't help either that this is likely the least memorable MITB match ever, and that Swagger almost botched the ending. SOTM goes to Kane, him being the powerhouse of the match bringing down guys left from right in awesome fashion. As a match itself, yes it is underrated. And pretty good. As a MITB match, though? If it is underrated, it deserves it. Worst MITB match yet, and possibly ever.

RANKING SO FAR:
WrestleMania 21: ****1/2
WrestleMania 22: ****
WrestleMania 23: ***3/4
WrestleMania 25: ***1/2
WrestleMania 24: ***1/2
WrestleMania 26: ***1/4

STAR OF THE MATCH:
WM 21: Chris Benoit
WM 22: Ric Flair
WM 23: Finlay
WM 24: Shelton Benjamin
WM 25: Mark Henry
WM 26: Kane

Next up, the very first two MITB PPV ones.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Just got a belated birthday present in the post. New Foley Bluray complete with MR SOCKO!!! I like how they came in separate packaging... the Bluray in CARDBOARD and the sock in A PADDED ENVELOPE.


Well, at least the post delivered you _something_.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Hitman said:


> Well, at least the post delivered you _something_.


This is true .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Just got a belated birthday present in the post. New Foley Bluray complete with MR SOCKO!!! I like how they came in separate packaging... the Bluray in CARDBOARD and the sock in A PADDED ENVELOPE.



Watch the power hour match with Sting. Not on the level of the FCA BB92' classic they had, but still really damn good. Foley is my second favorite Sting opponent ever behind only Vader. They had great chemistry.

Speaking of Vader, seeing him interviewed for the documentary that comes with that set was literally one of the happiest moments for me in recent wrestling memory, I thought at best they would pay lip service to that feud, but no, they really spend some time on it and man it made me feel all warm and tingly seeing Leon after all these years. I'm happy they didn't advertise Vader for that doc cause seeing him just pop up like that was soooo cool. Now, if they could only do the opposite and have Foley sit down and be interviewed for a Vader doc....I could die happy.


That's a good topic. Things you need to see in wrestling before you die:

1. See Savage get inducted into the HoF
2. See Vader get inducted into the HoF and get his own documentary/match list set
3. Have WWE do a real, comprehensive documentary for Eddie to replace that crappy one they did in 2004
4. Get a "CM Punk style" documentary set for Danielson complete with footage and matches from his time in ROH
5. Get a full, out of character, documentary/interview for Taker
6. Have all the titles in the WWE be relevant at the same time
7. See Brock Lesnar vs Daniel Bryan in a WWE PPV main event (one of the few dream matches of mine that could still possibly happen)
8. Have the commentators start calling ALL the action in the ring for ALL the matches once again
9. Have the WWE acknowledge the existence of Chris Benoit, in some form or fashion.
10. Listen to Jim Ross call a wrestling match in the WWE one more time.
11. See Generico/Sami Zayn main event a PPV for the WWE title in a classic match


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Seen that Sting match already, was glad when they released it on this set. Did pretty well a few years back on that WCW list WE did I think. I have to say though, I looked over what matches were on the set this morning and was pretty disappointed at some of the repeats or shitty matches they threw onto it . Certainly not a set I'd tell anyone to buy for matches, but thankfully the doc is really good (even if they missed out a TON of important stuff lol).


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

*Anyone got their hands on the 'After the Show' DVD yet? I'm looking forward to checking it out, but it looks like there's no links up yet.*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Seen that Sting match already, was glad when they released it on this set. Did pretty well a few years back on that WCW list WE did I think. I have to say though, I looked over what matches were on the set this morning and was pretty disappointed at some of the repeats or shitty matches they threw onto it . Certainly not a set I'd tell anyone to buy for matches, but thankfully the doc is really good (even if they missed out a TON of important stuff lol).


Yep I bought the set for the doc, that Sting match, and the NWO HiaC match. That's really it.

For any fans of the NFL AND wrestling, I strongly urge you to read Shumachers new article on "The Best Prospects in the WWE". Pretty cool stuff:

http://grantland.com/features/wwe-n...p-prospects-roman-reigns-bray-wyatt-triple-h/


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> 9. Have the WWE acknowledge the existence of Chris Benoit, in some form or fashion.


This is all I need. And I mean beyond just showing him on the Network, but actually treating him like any other wrestler without finding shortcuts to avoid mentioning him in their site or anything else they do.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

:mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

STEVIE SWAG said:


> *Anyone got their hands on the 'After the Show' DVD yet? I'm looking forward to checking it out, but it looks like there's no links up yet.*


It's in the Multimedia Section on here.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I honestly dont think we will ever see Chris Benoit treated like any other wrestler and we really shouldn't, no matter how fucked up his brain was he still killed 2 people and that should be enough to keep him out of the HOF imo. 

But they need to start including him in stats and stuff like that because hes still part of wrestling history.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Benoit may be part of wrestling history and he may be one of the greatest pro wrestlers of all time, but him being one of the greatest at a, inevitably in the eyes of the media, scriped, predetermined and sorta fake form of entertainment does not equal that he should be forgiven any time soon for the crimes he comitted, no matter how fucked his mind was. He isn't going into the HOF, not now, not ever. That being said, they shouldn't deny his existence in history and at least show him in matches he appeared but didn't win.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Fuck the Hall of Fame, I never even mentioned that. I just want the bullshit to end with them always avoiding him even when it makes sense to mention him historically. There's no reason for Triple H to be unable to say he tore his quad in a tag match with Austin against Benoit and Jericho rather than them showing a quick clip of him breaking up the Walls and tearing his quad. Or Randy Orton's first title win being quick clips or pics of him holding the title. Same deal for them saying "Two men have won from the #1 spot in the Royal Rumble" and mentioning HBK before changing the subject. That's what annoys me, not the HOF nonsense which I couldn't care less about.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I assumed "treating him like any other wrestler" meant the HOF, I agree with you then 

I need something to watch later, maybe some good Finlay WCW Ppv matches?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I didn't know every other wrestler is a Hall of Famer. :


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Call me crazy like all of you normally do, but I actually think there was a point in time recently where all the titles had relevance. That period was the end of 2011. In that time period, we had the beginning of the greatest title reign ever, the Mark Henry/Big Show/Daniel Bryan saga, Cody Rhodes having the best IC title reign since Orton, the great Ziggler/Ryder feud, Air Boom killing it every night, and Beth Phoenix's DoD run. I'd say that's as relevant as every title can possibly be.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> I need something to watch later, maybe some good Finlay WCW Ppv matches?


Well, Regal/Finlay (WCW Uncensored 1996).


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Alas that is the only Finley WCW ppv match I have seen :lol 

But I will rewatch it after work because I love that match


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Call me crazy like all of you normally do, but I actually think there was a point in time recently where all the titles had relevance. That period was the end of 2011. In that time period, we had the beginning of the greatest title reign ever, the Mark Henry/Big Show/Daniel Bryan saga, Cody Rhodes having the best IC title reign since Orton, the great Ziggler/Ryder feud, Air Boom killing it every night, and Beth Phoenix's DoD run. I'd say that's as relevant as every title can possibly be.


What greatest title reign was this?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Alas that is the only Finley WCW ppv match I have seen :lol
> 
> But I will rewatch it after work because I love that match


You seen Vs Benoit at... Slamboree 1998? I think that's the event.



WrestlingforEverII said:


> What greatest title reign was this?


I'm assuming he's speaking of Punk's WWE reign .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> You seen Vs Benoit at... Slamboree 1998? I think that's the event.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm assuming he's speaking of Punk's WWE reign .


Nah I havent seen it, will watch that later :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

As if anyone shouldn't already know, watch that Sheamus vs Tensai match that was posted, immediately.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Pretty sure I've seen at least one of those Tensai/Sheamus matches, if there was any more than one. It was pretty good as you would expect from the two.

It sucks that they completely ruined Albert and just because he wasn't cut for the main event, they made him a full-time jobber. Wasn't watching much in 2012, but I did see a match him and Orton had on Smackdown I think and I liked that one too.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Call me crazy like all of you normally do, but I actually think there was a point in time recently where all the titles had relevance. That period was the end of 2011. In that time period, *we had the beginning of the greatest title reign ever*, the Mark Henry/Big Show/Daniel Bryan saga, Cody Rhodes having the best IC title reign since Orton, the great Ziggler/Ryder feud, Air Boom killing it every night, and Beth Phoenix's DoD run. I'd say that's as relevant as every title can possibly be.


And that's when you went lost it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm talking about the titles being relevant like they were back in the late 1980s early 1990s. You had guys like Savage, Steamboat, Bret Hart, Mr. Perfect, Shawn Michaels, and Razor Ramon going for the IC title. That's just insane. It used to be that if you weren't going for the WWE title, you went for the IC title. And the tag titles, while they did have a renaissance in 2013, have been mostly props for the better part of a decade. And now we have matches other than the WWE title main eventing PPV's regularly. I just wish they would do more to make it seem like legitimate athletic competition at times, bring back the time limits and such. That's probably never going to happen, it's just wishful thinking and why I put it on that list.

Like right now it should be Bryan, Cena, Orton, and Batista in the title picture,. Then your next biggest stars like Sheamus, Cesaro, Mark Henry, ADR, Christian, etc should be going for the IC title, and the Us title should just be scrapped. Then when you want to shuffle say, Cesaro into the main event picture when he's ready, you have a guy like Orton whose been in the WWE title picture for a while going for the IC. Like how Jericho and Rey had their classic feud for the IC title, that elevated the belt because both guys were former Heavyweight Champs. It's all about perception. If a former WWE WHC champ like Orton holds the IC title and has great matches showing it's important to him, that elevates the title in the eyes of the fans. Maybe I'm wrong, I very well could be, but I think match and feud quality can make a big difference in how a title is seen. If a known guy like Jericho is tearing it up every single night to hold onto his IC title, it draws interest from the fans and makes the IC title match something they want to see from now on.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Call me crazy like all of you normally do, but I actually think there was a point in time recently where all the titles had relevance. That period was the end of 2011. In that time period, *we had the beginning of the greatest title reign ever*, the* Mark Henry*/Big Show/Daniel Bryan saga, Cody Rhodes having the best IC title reign since Orton, the great Ziggler/Ryder feud, Air Boom killing it every night, and Beth Phoenix's DoD run. I'd say that's as relevant as every title can possibly be.


you mentioned the same thing twice


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Henry is so well-love on here :

I havent watched anything from like 2007 - November 2013, but I found most of the Henry matches I watched pretty boring.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Get out. Now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

As it's been established before, Henry matches = chocolate. The good ones anyways.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

DoubtGin said:


> Henry is so well-love on here :
> 
> I havent watched anything from like 2007 - November 2013, but I found most of the Henry matches I watched pretty boring.


Well then you have no right to say such a heinous comment :henry1

But seriously. Halt the Jericho project for now and watch this!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Someone should upload Henry v. Jericho 1/12/04.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Along w/Rollins vs McIntyre whateverthedate/12


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Spoiler: Vincearoonie


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Screw that one. Post the one that must be seen. _(Undertaker did one, right?)_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Spoiler: GOATaroonie



Undertaker escaped on his bike after getting Booker, Vince, HHH, Goldust and Rock to do one :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

What's a good all around PPV that gets slept on? WWE Network is finally on Xbox One


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWF/WWE: Survivor Series 1995
WCW: Sin


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The first half of Sin is really good. Even Vito/Reno was kinda fun. But the second half. In typical WCW fashion, it insulted our intelligence.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

funnyfaces, give me your top 5 Shawn Michaels matches, please.

ETA: Do the same with Bret, but make it top 6 'cause I know WM13 is obvious.

Anyone else who'd like to contribute, please do!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll just go with my favorite Michaels matches instead of "best":

vs. Jericho WM XIX
vs. Mankind IYH:MG
vs. Undertaker WM XXV
vs. Undertaker IYH:BB
vs. Diesel IYH:GFBE

Yes, you read that correctly. For reasons that I'm still not sure of, I love that Diesel match that much.

As for Bret, I think we had this conversation before. But oh well, six favorites:

vs. Austin WM XIII
vs. Austin SvS 96
vs. Owen WM X
vs. British Bulldog IYH:SB
vs. Mr. Perfect SS 91
vs. Diesel SvS 95

So yeah. The point of all of this is to show that as shitty as Kevin Nash was, somehow he always killed it with these two guys in particular. Now let's all take turns marveling over the Bret/Diesel Royal Rumble 95 match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I consider Michaels/Diesel a legit top five singles of Michaels' career. The reason you love is because it's fantastic.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Dont ask me :hbk best matches, I take offense to that


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'll just go with my favorite Michaels matches instead of "best":
> 
> vs. Jericho WM XIX
> vs. Mankind IYH:MG
> ...


The bolded is probably my top five Bret singles matches, except I'd replace vs. Perfect at SS with vs. Perfect at KOTR. 

Interesting that we're so similiar on that.


Shawn/Diesel at IYH was fun, though the leg thing took me out of it. I think that it could have worked for me if Diesel came across as particularly vicious, monstrous, and out for blood during that part, but he didn't to me. 

I don't have much memory of Shawn's match with Diesel at WMXI, btw. How was it? 

Thoughts on Shawn vs. Cena at WM & RAW, and vs. Benjamin on RAW?

That's directed toward everyone, btw.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

NAITCH said:


> Dont ask me :hbk best matches, I take offense to that


I'm guessing:

1. vs. Flair at WM24
2. vs. Taker at IYH:BB
3. vs. Taker at WM25
4. ?
5. vs. Razor at WM10


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

When putting together the best matches of the 2000s list (that I gave up on), I couldn't finish watching WM23. I liked what I saw but once it lost me it was a thought process of "I've seen this before and am not adding it to the list - I don't need to see it again". The Raw match is an awesome, awesome Cena performance and was on my list at the bottom; had it pegged for a possible #100 or so. Shelton match is OK but I'm not that into it.

found my thoughts from a year ago



> Cena/Michaels at Mania doesn't hold up. Well, I still think it's really good so it does 'hold up', but it doesn't live up to when I last watched it. The beginning was really great. Cena throws his gigantic fists, Michaels ducks every one of them and chops away. Cena was awesome selling the leg. Yeah you heard me. While Shawn was going after it he was selling and holding it and shaking and it was great. There's been tonnes of shit about him no-selling it afterward, but I didn't see that. For ONE - Michaels stopped working the leg long before Cena stopped selling it. FOR TWO - Cena was selling it between getting his offense in. For THREE - even after hitting his running shoulder-block he was selling it. So yah. Other stuff.....the ref bump didn't look stupid. Nasty piledriver on the steps. I didn't bother finishing the match. I knew I wasn't going to rank it so I stopped it. I really don't have much bad to say about this, other than it isn't really great. Since when is 'not great' a bad thing to say though? 'Great' doesn't come all that often.
> 
> Well 'great' does come with the Raw re-match. Great, great match. Cena ruled. I love that the headlock was clearly to bide time, but also looked great. Cena's superhero body builder arms really look like they have enough strength behind them to squeeze you brain out of your nostrils. He sells the body part maybe even better here. I loved when he yelled at his own shoulder to stop giving him trouble. Michaels was good and his old man exhaustion selling comes off way better in a lengthy match, but this was John Cena shifting from John Cena to John Motherfucking Cena. I said Rey/Chavo might be my #100 and this is right above it, so it could finish near the tail end.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I've always liked Shawn/Diesel from WM XI, but it's not a match I would recommend to someone. I just find something about it fun. And even though Diesel was the face and Michaels was a heel at the time, if you look at the match through reversed dynamics, it's even better. Shawn/Cena at WM is good, but I don't think it's as great as others do. Shawn actually had a great performance. Reminded me of DX Shawn. But I honestly can't pinpoint a single thing Cena did that added to the match. You could have substituted a pillow in there and it wouldn't be that much different. Their RAW 07 and their 2009 matches are incredible. And the Benjamin match is my favorite RAW match of 2005.

Truth be told, I love Shawn. But the more that I watch his 2002-2010 run, the more that I sour over some of the matches that I once loved from him. Sometimes I don't have any interest in anything that happens in his matches until the finishing stretch. Like his match with Edge at Royal Rumble 2005. 90s main event Shawn is my favorite incarnation of him, with Rockers Shawn as a close #2.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> I'm guessing:
> 
> 1. vs. Flair at WM24
> 2. vs. Taker at IYH:BB
> ...


:lol close would probably have 

1. Vs taker HIAC
2. Vs taker mania 25
3. Vs taker mania 26
4 . Vs flair mania 24
5. Vs mankind iyh

Wow that was really hard , really wanted to put the wm 10 ladder but tha will be in the top 10. Yep Nash March is amazing no doubt , I also LOVE the Jarrett match from one of those iyh . The orton svs 07 is really good, I can go on and on.

Um both Michaels/Cena matches are pretty good, I think the mania is better and really good, slot find it long and boring but I disagree . Haven't seen the Shelton match in years but never really Loved it


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> When putting together the best matches of the 2000s list (that I gave up on), I couldn't finish watching WM23. I liked what I saw but once it lost me it was a thought process of "I've seen this before and am not adding it to the list - I don't need to see it again". The Raw match is an awesome, awesome Cena performance and was on my list at the bottom; had it pegged for a possible #100 or so. Shelton match is OK but I'm not that into it.


lmao, I feel like you're the most notorious, as far as starting stuff and never finishing it, right?

Have not seen the RAW match yet, but it's interesting, how different perspectives can be. Bob Holly in his book talked about how he didn't like Shawn much, but he praised his work and said something like "I knew he was the greatest of all-time when I watched Shawn carry John Cena for a full hour." He said that every single bit of that match was Shawn.

Dammit, I want to go watch that match now to see what I think. 




funnyfaces1 said:


> I've always liked Shawn/Diesel from WM XI, but it's not a match I would recommend to someone. I just find something about it fun. And even though Diesel was the face and Michaels was a heel at the time, if you look at the match through reversed dynamics, it's even better.


I'm especially curious about that match because Diesel said that Shawn was blatantly trying to steal the show from him, 'cause Shawn was gunning for his position, lol. 




> Shawn/Cena at WM is good, but I don't think it's as great as others do. Shawn actually had a great performance. Reminded me of DX Shawn. But I honestly can't pinpoint a single thing Cena did that added to the match. You could have substituted a pillow in there and it wouldn't be that much different.


YES. It's one of my favorite Shawn performances, because I think that it's different character-wise, from anything he's ever done. He treated himself as a legend during that match, and that was interesting to watch. I think that it provided the perfect contrast, with John being the sort of bullied, young, upstart.

It was long, but I didn't find it boring at all. Mainly 'cause Shawn was killing it from a character standpoint, I thought.



> Their RAW 07 and their 2009 matches are incredible.
> 
> And the Benjamin match is my favorite RAW match of 2005.


What's the date of the '09 match?

So, so, shockingly good. I might have it as a top 5 Shawn match. I guess I really like Shawn as the grizzled old vet, with the young bucks trying to live up, huh? Except Shelton _was_ living up, so it had a totally different vibe from the Cena match, in addition to the superb wrestling it contained.

Everyone who hasn't seen it, go watch that match right now.




NAITCH said:


> :lol close would probably have
> 
> I also LOVE the Jarrett match from one of those iyh . The orton svs 07 is really good, I can go on and on.


I almost said WM26, but hesitated. Wasn't too sure on that.

I forgot about the Jarrett match. Probably a top 10 Michaels match for me, I think.

Speaking of Orton, a few weeks ago, you mentioned you had a list for him. What was it?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

We ever get Foley/Eddie to some extent?


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> It's in the Multimedia Section on here.


*Thanks, but its up online now :mark:

http://www.bollyrulez.net/wwe-dvds-documentary/1554146-watch-wwe-best-raw-after-show-dvdrip-2014-hdtv-watch-online-download-video-update-*divx*.html

Also, a WCW PPV suggestion from '97 and on pls  *


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

What's the general consensus on No Mercy 2003? I feel like watching a Ruthless Aggression era Smackdown PPV


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Alim said:


> What's the general consensus on No Mercy 2003? I feel like watching a Ruthless Aggression era Smackdown PPV


Simply, It's the BOMB. A great show from top to bottom, over half the matches breach at or over the ***1/2 range.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

:lmao

Yes, that Morrison vs Henry match was pretty good. Gotta watch more monster heel Henry matches, I guess.

Still couldn't finish the main event from Survivor Series 2001, my pc crashed the three times I've tried watching it :lmao


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Alim said:


> What's the general consensus on No Mercy 2003? I feel like watching a Ruthless Aggression era Smackdown PPV


Great opener with Tajiri/Mysterio, and the Angle/Cena is quite good. I think the main event is disappointing. Everything else is so-so, but helps to make up a nice card. Albert's best singles match in the WWE as well, maybe?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Someone should upload Henry v. Jericho 1/12/04.


Here you go:

*Mark Henry vs Chris Jericho (WWF Raw 01.12.2004)*

x1sm2dg


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> We ever get Foley/Eddie to some extent?


Seeing as those are my 2 favorite wrestlers of all time, I'd almost have a heart attack if they had ever had a singles match. Sadly I don't think they ever had any interactions in the ring. Foley might have done something with him when he was Commissioner but yea no physicality at all that I can recall.



Alim said:


> What's the general consensus on No Mercy 2003? I feel like watching a Ruthless Aggression era Smackdown PPV


Rey/Tajiri is GREAT
Angle/Cena is GREAT
Eddie/Show is GREAT
Benoit/Albert is REALLY good, borderline GREAT
Lesnar/Taker is really good

So yea, top to bottom I say it's the best PPV of 2003 hands down. Love that show.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

edit - zep

youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:

Shiiiit. Do you have a match(es - rub the a out) you want uploaded? I might maybe have it(them).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw3I8kgg8_I

DOUBLE POST

Here's Malenko/Scorpio/Jack v. Guerrero/Steiners. Unsure if Eddie and Foley actually match up, I only remember watching this for Scorpio.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> edit - zep
> 
> youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:
> 
> Shiiiit. Do you have a match(es - rub the a out) you want uploaded? I might maybe have it(them).


No worries. Well, there is this if you have it at all:

Bret Hart & Davey Boy Smith vs. Owen Hart & Bob Backlund (Action Zone 2/26/95)





Yeah1993 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw3I8kgg8_I
> 
> DOUBLE POST
> 
> Here's Malenko/Scorpio/Jack v. Guerrero/Steiners. Unsure if Eddie and Foley actually match up, I only remember watching this for Scorpio.


Was just about to mention this


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Hitman said:


> No worries. Well, there is this if you have it at all:
> 
> Bret Hart & Davey Boy Smith vs. Owen Hart & Bob Backlund (Action Zone 2/26/95)


I haven't got it, but it's on an old crappy quality dailymotion upload. The date of the video is wrong/a typo. I can't any find evidence that a WWF show was televised on 1/25/95, anyway.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2xqq9_1-25-95-owen-hart-mr-bob-backlund-v_news

I'll upload an assumed better quality of it when I get the 95 yearbook next decade.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I haven't got it, but it's on an old crappy quality dailymotion upload. The date of the video is wrong/a typo. I can't any find evidence that a WWF show was televised on 1/25/95, anyway.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2xqq9_1-25-95-owen-hart-mr-bob-backlund-v_news
> 
> I'll upload an assumed better quality of it when I get the 95 yearbook next decade.


NP, thanks mate. I may just get the Yearbook disc that match is on lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw3I8kgg8_I
> 
> DOUBLE POST
> 
> Here's Malenko/Scorpio/Jack v. Guerrero/Steiners. Unsure if Eddie and Foley actually match up, I only remember watching this for Scorpio.



I'm calling foul cause Eddie wasn't Eddie fucking Guerrero yet in ECW 

I'm still watching that when I get home just in case they do actually match up at one point


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Is there a Benoit/Foley match in existance? Because yeah, the risk of Chris fucking Benoit not being Chris fucking Benoit was non-existent in any form


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

*Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus- Extreme Rules 2012 ****1/2*

One of my favourite matches of 2012 :mark:, after Cena/Lesnar and Shield/T.Hell NO&Ryback. If only we could have had this match at WM28..., still this was an amazing bout. The pace here was amazing, the nearfalls and the counters really kept me on the edge of my seat, but most of Bryan's matches do that, so.. . Bryan's arm work here was great, and Sheamus's selling was no different. That mid-air rolling senton counter by Sheamus :mark:. That Cloverleaf counter by Sheamus :mark:. Sheamus's final Brogue Kick :mark:. Bryan's selling here :mark:. Damn, both of them were amazing in this match, Sheamus proved that he can be awesome when he wanted to, he really is an underrated worker. I seriously wanted to give this ****3/4, but that's my rating for Cena/Lesnar, and I love that match more than this one


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Smackdown main event was really good, imo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That advertised 3 on 1 Handicap match? Oh yeah, have to watch it.

Was anything else of SD worth it?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

It was changed to a fatal four-way match on Tuesday  (with the same wrestlers in it).

The six-man tag between Sheamus/Usos and Wyatts was pretty good as well, I'd say.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The first half of Sin is really good. Even Vito/Reno was kinda fun. But the second half. In typical WCW fashion, it insulted our intelligence.


Easy, Jim Cornette. It's wrestling. Get over yourself.

and I disagree.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm really curious about Hogan's WCW main events. I _know_ I wont blindly hate it like ff but I'm not sure if I'll like it the way I've enjoyed most of the WWE Hogan stuff I've seen because I've only heard bad things about WCW main events in the nWo era.

Think when/if I get the Network, I'll make my way through some WCW (and ECW) PPVs to familiarize myself with them.



ATF said:


> Is there a Benoit/Foley match in existance? Because yeah, the risk of Chris fucking Benoit not being Chris fucking Benoit was non-existent in any form


Texas 10-man tag is all you're gonna get I think. And they were tag partners the week before Backlash 2004 if you accept that. There should've been a one on one with them in 2000 when Foley kept screwing Benoit out of the title. Even more, a No Holds Barred between the two would've been :mark: because neither men knew fear.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> *I'm really curious about Hogan's WCW main events*. I _know_ I wont blindly hate it like ff but I'm not sure if I'll like it the way I've enjoyed most of the WWE Hogan stuff I've seen because I've only heard bad things about WCW main events in the nWo era.
> 
> Think when/if I get the Network, I'll make my way through some WCW (and ECW) PPVs to familiarize myself with them.
> 
> ...


Except his matches with Flair in 96, its fucking awful and I don't know why one would self afflict themselves watching that shit


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Most really aren't worth seeing & are a constant struggle to find interest as they're going on. But, I can understand the curiosity. I often give matches at least one viewing if they're on PPV. Figure what the hell. Never know what may surprise you. Then common knowledge shows up and that's why you have it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Texas 10-man tag is all you're gonna get I think. And they were tag partners the week before Backlash 2004 if you accept that. There should've been a one on one with them in 2000 when Foley kept screwing Benoit out of the title. Even more, a No Holds Barred between the two would've been :mark: because neither men knew fear.


Well, the Texas 10-Man Tag and the Team Benoit/Evolution matches were all kick-ass, so I accept. You know, you should do a Top 100 Benoit list similar to Orton's (WWE only to make it easier I guess, though WCW stuff would be welcome too )

Now I just came up with a truly badass dream match: Brock Lesnar '03 vs. Mankind '96. That SCREAMS 5-stars :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Top 100 Benoit list


Yeah, thought someone may do this. Probably best to keep it in this thread though TBH.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ If I did that list, I would PM a mod/admin before opening a separate thread for it. There have been rare times where they have not been lazy fucks who just lock a thread even when it's not related to the tragedy, so if they'd agree to removing every troll reply, I'd open it. Otherwise, it'd just be kept in here and maybe appear in youtube form.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Most really aren't worth seeing & are a constant struggle to find interest as they're going on. But, I can understand the curiosity. I often give matches at least one viewing if they're on PPV. Figure what the hell. Never know what may surprise you. Then common knowledge shows up and that's why you have it.


That's pretty much it.

Plus I often find humor in bad matches so I'll end up getting something out of it.



ATF said:


> Well, the Texas 10-Man Tag and the Team Benoit/Evolution matches were all kick-ass, so I accept. *You know, you should do a Top 100 Benoit list similar to Orton's (WWE only to make it easier I guess, though WCW stuff would be welcome too )*


Maybe if I can be arsed one day. I'm already familiar with nearly all of his WWE work other than some of his 2000 stuff that I have yet to get to, but I feel it would be a disservice to the rest of his career since he had so many WCW gems to just leave them off. But I've considered it in the past and it may still happen. I just don't know when since I'm not in much of a wrestling mood at the moment.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cesaro is on Jericho's Podcast! Just finished listening to it, awesome, awesome stuff. What a good dude.

http://www.podcastone.com/Talk-Is-Jericho

Cesaro's 2 favorite matches are Eddie/Brock NWO 04' and Bret/Owen WM 10 :mark: :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cesaro has great taste it seems. He's also a big fan of Scott Steiner's blabbers, mad props for that :lol






VINTAGE STEINER.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He should have said his favorite matches were all of his.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So when is this Undertaker/Austin podcast happening? He was supposed to be recording it like 2 weeks after WM. Been a little longer than that now, and I ain't heard nuffin about nuffin. Best still be fucking happening.

Raw after the Show DVD is fun mostly. Some of the segments go on a little toooooo long but there is plenty of fun to be had. The Undertakeroonie segment lasts AGES and in the end he bolts out of the ring and escapes on his bike after watching Booker, Goldust, Vince, HHH and Rock all do a spinaroonie first :lmao. 3rd disc is still downloading, assuming this is the disc with matches on.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Raw after the Show DVD is fun mostly. Some of the segments go on a little toooooo long but there is plenty of fun to be had. The Undertakeroonie segment lasts AGES and in the end he bolts out of the ring and escapes on his bike after watching Booker, Goldust, Vince, HHH and Rock all do a spinaroonie first :lmao. 3rd disc is still downloading, assuming this is the disc with matches on.


My mate bought that DVD today, looking forward to watching it, does look fun. 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Cesaro is on Jericho's Podcast! Just finished listening to it, awesome, awesome stuff. What a good dude.
> 
> http://www.podcastone.com/Talk-Is-Jericho
> 
> Cesaro's 2 favorite matches are Eddie/Brock NWO 04' and Bret/Owen WM 10 :mark: :mark:


Cool. More hope then we get Brock/Cesaro.

Probably the last upload for a couple of weeks. 

*Kurt Angle ECW Debut + Taz vs Little Guido (ECW 10.29.1996)*

x1snequ


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forgot about that set actually having matches on it. 8*D


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

There's an After the Show DVD :shocked: What the hell? Have I been living around a rock for the past few months. Did WWE even advertise this?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Do WWE advertise ANY DVD these days?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

it was advertised on RAW quite a bit, I think


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I skip 99% of Raw so I miss most shit anyway .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal you mean you don't watch the same dynamite stuff every week involving 3MB, Matadores, Fandango, Usos, Santino, and the rest?

Fake fan.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I sat through the LOWEST rated Raw EVER from 1996 the other day in full. But I can't sit through 99% of what happens on the show today.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hey, Usos were involved in a pretty good 6-Man Tag w/Sheamus vs the Wyatts on SD. 

And 3MB and Matadores are having such an incredible, amazing, PERFECT feud. Dem Hornswoggle/Torito matches... WOW. _Obvious sarcasm in this part._

Tbh though, I'm curious to see those two they will work a fucking TLC match on the Extreme Rules pre-show :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Date for that RAW plz


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raw - 12/23/96 1.5 rating.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh man. Bret Hart vs Fake Razor main events. Talk about a winning edition.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ric Flair vs. Davey Boy Smith (London 4/13/92)

Just came across this whilst browsing, never knew they had a match TBH.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Usos are better than the rest of their family.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Not sure if this was posted yet, but the full match listing for Batista's new DVD was released. A bunch of TV matches, so I have no idea if it's any good or not. Punk matches on there though! 

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/match-listing-wwe-batista-animal-unleashed-dvd/64992/


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Most interesting portion was "Titus O'Neil package". What does such a thing mean?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:lmao Didn't even notice that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Most interesting portion was "Titus O'Neil package". What does such a thing mean?


Clearly they want an answer to the question "whose dick is bigger?".


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Help me out fellas. Quick question(s)....

Did Edge ever face Punk in a PPV? If so which one? I wanna say they had a match on Smackdown in like 09-10? If so is it on a set somewhere? Thanks in advance.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm hoping they do a match listing like that for the Final Taker Doc/Set. Most of Takers significant PPV matches have been released by now, I think they should include a few of the lesser obvious PPV matches (like Revenge of the Taler and Vengeance 2001 vs RVD) then just go with all the classics he had on Raw and ESPECIALLY Smackdown over the years. Shit, they could just put all his 2008 Smackdown matches on it and call it a day 

Don't look now, but there is not 1, but TWO whole Finlay matches on the Batista set! Can't be all bad now can it?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Never faced off on PPV and their TV match(es) have never been released either.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Clearly they want an answer to the question "whose dick is bigger?".


8*D



MachoMadness1988 said:


> Help me out fellas. Quick question(s)....
> 
> Did Edge ever face Punk in a PPV? If so which one? I wanna say they had a match on Smackdown in like 09-10? If so is it on a set somewhere? Thanks in advance.


Punker vs Edge

Nope on a PPV match. And don't believe any made a set yet either.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Thanks Hayley and Jack.... (Y) 



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Never faced off on PPV and their TV match(es) have never been released either.


I figured. I'm hoping for another Punk set someday.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

OMG that Batista set looks absolutely horrid :ti


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF reviews Smackdown 5/2/2014*



Spoiler: SD review



As of late, Smackdown is upstaging Raw in a lot of ways, and this really is no exception as this was a solid and very fun show.

The big attraction for this week's SD was easily its own MOTN, the Fatal 4-Way for the US Title ft. Ambrose/ADR/Axel/Ryback. A very smartly booked 4-Way at that, putting Ambrose over as a true fighter of a champion in what was his first US Title defense in AGES, and also quite possibly his best one to date. The only thing that could challenge this is Ambrose/Ziggler from Main Event last year. He who put yet another amazing FIP performance, him being almost always there to break a pin as soon as possible was a great touch. The crowd was firmly behind him (even though they didn't really care much if at all about the other three) and he put on a great showing. Also really enjoyed how there was always a tease for a Rybaxel explosion (which sort-of did happen), and ADR stood there as a neutral of sorts just taking and giving big strikes (seriously, that double stomp on Axel was quite badass). Shield coming together after the match was an expected and awesome touch, and a fitting way to end the show. The match itself I would give around ***1/4 or 1/2.

The overall star of the show though was Bray Wyatt who was all over the place - Usos & Sheamus/Wyatts was a solid, *** worthy 6-Man Tag (which is to be expected from any 6-Man Tag involving the Shield and/or the Wyatts at WORST nowadays, giving you a testament of how good they really are); the promo package for Cena/Wyatt this Sunday is a serious Top 5 package EVER (seriously, it's that good, WATCH IT FOR YOUR OWN GOOD); and his promo after said package ruled too.

Daniel Bryan's promo was maybe his best one yet. Well, again, it was just a pretty decent promo sure, but his intensity and delievery came across quite perfect. Kane also had a nice promo for how short it was. Bryan/Kane, with its great build-up and the fact that it's a minor dream match of mine to see them wrestle at a PPV Main Event for the WWE Title since their Hell No days, is by far my most anticipated match on the ER card (Shield/Evolution I'm really skeptical it'll deliever considering Evolution's side; Cena/Wyatt could and should be very good but Cena winning again will really bring a sour taste; RVD/Cesaro/Swagger could be hit or miss; rest has no shot at being better than the stuff I mentioned) and this only helped that interest raise.

The rest was there, but watchable. Basically everything else was hype for ER, from the 1 minute RVD/Swagger match to the stupid TLC contract signing that got cool once they started fighting. And the Rusev stuff too.

Overall, another fun episode of Smackdown and you could, and SHOULD, watch some stuff. Ambrose/ADR/Axel/Ryback being the standout. I would kill myself to have you watch the Cena/Wyatt ER promo package too, but that'll be showed at ER itself I'm sure.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The Usos are better than the rest of their family.


Funny guy.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Finally watching the Survivor Series 2001 main event now.

The beginning was kinda predictable with both Shane and Vince getting eliminated after eating finisher after finisher.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

DoubtGin said:


> Finally watching the Survivor Series 2001 main event now.
> 
> The beginning was kinda predictable with both Shane and Vince getting eliminated after eating finisher after finisher.


Vince?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

whoops, meant Big Show 

was just thinking about apparently Show replacing Vince because of an injury

Kane noselling RVD's finisher but getting eliminated after a simple kick from the top rope :


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Vince?



Yea I was gonna say, didn't Vince have Show take his spot that year?

What's everyone's favorite SVS Elimination Tag? Mine is either the first one with Savage/Roberts/Steamboat and Co. Or that 2001 one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The awesome 5 tag teams on 5 tag teams match from 1988.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

match was pretty great as a whole, it got better and better; the final bit was especially awesome

some eliminations were kinda "weak"

**** from me still

Jericho's new finisher really didn't connect with the crowd


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DoubtGin said:


> match was pretty great as a whole, it got better and better; the final bit was especially awesome
> 
> some eliminations were kinda "weak"
> 
> ...


Yea, the Breakdown never really got over, though I much prefer it to the Code Breaker which looks really weak 9 times out of 10. The one he hits on Mysterio at the Bash was fucking SICK though.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Did we ever see Rock take a Codebreaker, or did that move come much later? Rock probably would have jumped out of the ring selling that :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of that, even though there are a lot of good matches and promos involving him, The Rock selling the Stunner is simply the greatest thing he's ever done in wrasslin, period. :rock

Hell, overselling is, when done right, funnier than The Simpsons in its prime :mark:


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Just watched the previous 2 ER ppvs over the last 24 hours.... with 12 being PHENOMENAL and last year's being pretty solid. 

12: 

Kane/Orton ***3/4
Ziggler/Clay *1/2
Show/Cody **
Sheamus/Bryan ****1/4
Punk/Jericho ***3/4
Cena/Lesnar ****1/2

13:

Jericho/Fandango **3/4
Hell no/Shield ***
Swagger/Del Rio ***
Ambrose/Kofi **1/4
Sheamus/Henry *
Cena/Ryback ***1/2
Lesnar/HHH **** (Best match of series)


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Just put on Elimination Chamber 2012 on the Network, first match is Raw EC. Three guys in this match are absolutely great.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

ATF said:


> Speaking of that, even though there are a lot of good matches and promos involving him, The Rock selling the Stunner is simply the greatest thing he's ever done in wrasslin, period. :rock
> 
> Hell, overselling is, when done right, funnier than The Simpsons in its prime :mark:


I had to find a video.






Ah, Rocky. :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Been watching some of the footage in the Raw off-air DVD and man, it's so much fun. That Undertakeroonie segment was golden. :lmao

Rock/Austin is truly the greatest rivalry ever. Their chemistry is simply off the hook and these off-air segments of them having a blast further establishes that. It's an insult that any of the garbage feuds nowadays would even be labeled "the modern day Austin/Rock" when their best segment/match doesn't come close to being as enjoyable as off-air segments Rock and Austin had together.

Gotta watch that 2005 dark match with Orton & HBK against Evolution.

Also the Hogan/Austin segment was pretty fun, sucks to think of what could've been if they had agreed to a match. Just imagine the atmosphere!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Hitman said:


> Ric Flair vs. Davey Boy Smith (London 4/13/92)
> 
> Just came across this whilst browsing, never knew they had a match TBH.


Ooh, I have that. You want it uploaded?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Been watching some of the footage in the Raw off-air DVD and man, it's so much fun. That Undertakeroonie segment was golden. :lmao
> 
> Rock/Austin is truly the greatest rivalry ever. Their chemistry is simply off the hook and these off-air segments of them having a blast further establishes that. It's an insult that any of the garbage feuds nowadays would even be labeled "the modern day Austin/Rock" when their best segment/match doesn't come close to being as enjoyable as off-air segments Rock and Austin had together.
> 
> ...


As far as main event level feuds for a world title go-yea Austin/Rocky was up there for the all time best along with Flair/Steamboat and maybe 1 or 2 others.

If we are going strictly on quality of matches, eh I don't think they crack the top 5. BUT, and this is a big but, as far as entertainment goes, Austin/Rock is far an away the #1 feud of all time for sheer entertainment value. Nobody could touch those two when it came to going at it verbally and then backing it up physically.

Then again, if we drop the whole world title thing, Austin and McMahon is my favorite feud for classic moments and entertainment. Nothing touches those Austin-McMahon confrontations from late 1997-1999. Just amazing stuff there, as a teenager it was easily my favor the thing in wrestling back then.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Ooh, I have that. You want it uploaded?


Oh man if he doesn't then please oh please :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Ooh, I have that. You want it uploaded?



Oh hell yea! If you have it and it's not too much trouble, that is


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Anyone have those supposed ***** Eddie/Taker house show matches?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Anyone have those supposed ***** Eddie/Taker house show matches?


Don't even kid about something like that!


In all seriousness though, there are apparently a few Austin/Eddie house show matches from 2002 right before Steve left that are TREMENDOUS. There just isn't any recording of them. After seeing Eddie tear it up with RVD when he came back, Austin really liked the aggression he saw in Eddie and asked Vince if they could do a program together. They filmed some vignettes and skits and started working house shows together to get their chemistry down. Before they could start though Vince tried to hot shot Lesnar with a quick win over Austin on Raw and that's when Austin walked out. Apparently the agents reported back to Vince that the matches Eddie and Austin were having were just incredible and that's why Vince started pushing Eddie more with the Los Guerreros team and all those classic "Lie Cheat Steal" vignettes.

So yea, safe to say I'd pay a pretty penny for some HD quality videos of the Eddie/Austin house show matches in 2002


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

About to watch Foley v. Orton _Backlash 2004_ for the first time:mark:. Better live up to expectations.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Cesaro on the Jericho podcast? I will have to listen to that one for sure. 

Did we ever get Eddie vs wen ? Maybe in Japan? I don't believe so but not sure. 




Yeah1993 said:


> I consider Michaels/Diesel a legit top five singles of Michaels' career. The reason you love is because it's fantastic.


Was there live. Only ppv I have ever been to. Great match. Fun ppv. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> I've always liked Shawn/Diesel from WM XI, but it's not a match I would recommend to someone. I just find something about it fun.


Same. I really enjoyed it last time I watched it. 



Srdjan99 said:


> *Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus- Extreme Rules 2012 ****1/2*


Excellent match. 





The Rabid Wolverine said:


> What's everyone's favorite SVS Elimination Tag?


2001 main event for sure. Close second is the huge tag team one in 88. 



ATF said:


> Hell, overselling is, when done right, funnier than The Simpsons in its prime :mark:


Indeed



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Anyone have those supposed ***** Eddie/Taker house show matches?


On the same card as Savage vs :hhh2 and :angle2 vs Bret Hart



IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> About to watch Foley v. Orton _Backlash 2004_ for the first time:mark:. Better live up to expectations.


Love that match. One of my fave Foley matches. Probably top 5.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> About to watch Foley v. Orton _Backlash 2004_ for the first time:mark:. Better live up to expectations.



Oh it will. It will. It's Foleys personal favorite match, and it made a star in Randy Orton. That match never gets old for me.




MachoMadness1988 said:


> Cesaro on the Jericho podcast? I will have to listen to that one for sure.
> 
> Did we ever get Eddie vs wen ? Maybe in Japan? I don't believe so but not sure.
> 
> ...


Definitely check out the Cesaro podcast, really really good.

And Angle/Bret in a 2/3 Falls match is one of my top 5 personal dream matches. Bret being the perfectionist he is would undoubtedly bring the absolute best out in Angle and deliver a sure fire classic.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I get all warm and fuzzy thinking about Bret vs :angle2 holy crap! 

Made a list of dream matches a few years ago and saved it for some reason....

Austin V Hogan
Rock V HBK (Steamboat vs either) 
Undertaker V Sting
Bret Hart V Kurt Angle
Randy Savage V HHH
Cactus Jack vs Ted DiBiase
British Bulldogs vs Road Warriors 
Fabulous Freebirds vs New Age Outlaws and X Pac (six man tag)
Brock Lesnar vs Ultimate Warrior 
Mr. Perfect V Harley Race
Rowdy Roddy Piper V CM Punk
Pegasus V Daniel Bryan (Steamboat vs either) 
Andre the Giant V Yokozuna
Eddie Guerrero V Owen Hart
Terry Funk V Kerry Von Erich (I think this happened) 
Rick Rude V Edge
Rey Mysterio V Brian Pillman
Jake Roberts V Chris Jericho
Ric Flair vs **trying to think of awesome dudes he never faced***


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Aside from Stone Cold, Bret Hart is my dream opponent for Randy Orton. (not counting Bork and Rock since they are still active, plus he still wrestled them)

It would fit perfectly since Bret was the excellence of execution and he even said Orton is just that. Two similar styles clashing in the way that both execute every move smoothly and make it look effortless.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

_The Ryback Mark's Reviews on the Art of Professional Wrestling​__Randy Orton v. Mick Foley/Cactus Jack
No Holds Barred, Falls Count Anywhere, Evolution Barred from Ringside
Intercontinental Championship Match
Backlash 2004​_
Ok, to begin, holy motherfucking shit, this match was brutal. This match is an oddity in the WWE, where there have been extreme matches, but this is *EXTREME*. I have never felt so happy not being a wrestler before, one cannot envy the situations Orton and Foley put themselves through.

Ok, the entrances were perfect. The pop for Foley was underwhelming, but still good. Orton's trashcan is pretty dope, as my peers say in today's psuedo-gangsta style. "Barbie" may just be the star of the beginning of the match. Right from the start, Foley is taking Barry Bond swings at Orton, crushing the trashcan in a "HMFS" moment. Orton plays the inexperienced "noob" to a tee. Orton does a great job of trying to use Barbie against Foley, I may add. That Belly-to-Back suplex on the stage by Orton was great. Mick is a lunatic in this match for sure, his crazy extreme persona never fades. Orton getting busted open was great. My god, how many times is King going to say Orton is beautiful? He must have had sore knees, because he was fricking deepthroating Orton verbally the entire match. Okay, I get it, Orton's perfect face is disfigured, you can go back to molesting teenagers now and still throwing better punches than over half the roster. The Bischoff segment was great, such a good authority heel, so easy to hate. We see more gruesome spots before the famous "RKO counter onto the the tacks" spot. By God, Orton is a tough son of a gun. The fight goes outside, and Orton is pushed off the stage and onto the tables next to the ramp. CACTUS JACK ELBOW!!! :mark: :mark: :mark: Wait, when was this falls count anywhere? Did they add this just so Foley hitting the elbow was completely stupid? Either way it was awesome. The match goes back to the ring, where Foley again plants Orton, only this time with the Double Arm DDT. Orton again kicks out. The fact that Mick went over twenty minutes before getting busted open is astonishing. Orton hits two RKOs at the end of this one to finish it off, the last cutter being onto "Barbie".

Great match, marred slightly by some moments, but not enough not to say that this was not a _**** 3/4_. My attention was stuck to the screen the whole match. The fact that Orton was put over clean was nice as well, and I feel helped build his legitimacy to be the World Champ later that year at _SummerSlam_. So all in all, this is my favorite Foley match now along with_ Mind Games 1996_. Had a lot of fun and squirming in this match.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Just got done rewatching Angle/Benoit vs Mysterio/Edge from No Mercy. Edge getting the hot tag and that point on until the match ends might be one of the best displays of Pro Wrestling I've ever seen. One of the few matches in WWE that didn't get a five star rating that I felt definitely deserved one. Wow.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

TheGMofGods said:


> Just got done rewatching *Angle/Benoit vs Mysterio/Edge from No Mercy.* Edge getting the hot tag and that point on until the match ends might be one of the best displays of Pro Wrestling I've ever seen. One of the few matches in WWE that didn't get a five star rating that I felt definitely deserved one. Wow.


Inaugural Tag Title Match? If that is it, that is one of my favorite tags, if not my favorite tag match of all time.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Still not MOTN. taker/:brock)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Didn't Bret Hart once say that Melina was one of the best wrestlers ever?

The Usos continue to prove their doubters wrong. Great match on Smackdown from a tag team that is superior to the Faces of Fear.


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Don't even kid about something like that!


they did have matches in 2005.

http://www.cagematch.net/?id=112&vi...ion=&sWorkerRelationship=Any&sFulltextSearch=


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

WWE2014 said:


> they did have matches in 2005.
> 
> http://www.cagematch.net/?id=112&vi...ion=&sWorkerRelationship=Any&sFulltextSearch=


Any footage, anyone?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best match in the WWE Tag Team Championship tournament.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That, Bangle/Redge, or any other match in the WWE Tag Titles Tournament (as good they are) don't light a candle to *THIS* semi-forgotten classic:



The first time I've watched in a long, long time. And it's still biblically great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bliss can't be forgotten.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Goldust/Booker v. Jericho/Christian >>>> etc etc etc etc etc


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, Shield/Rhodes sure isn't included on those etc. parts


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Ooh, I have that. You want it uploaded?


No thanks mate, pretty sure i have it somewhere. Thanks for the offer. 

But you could upload it for others on here if you had time.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, I can probably do that tomorrow.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Bliss can't be forgotten.


Couldn't agree more. 

Except somehow, the masses do forget. Very easily. Few if any remember Shield/Rhodes I at the moment, and basically nobody remembers the No DQ rematch which in my mind was even better. You could argue which of the two was better easily, but I think the 2nd match had a few tweaks.

Hell, there is so, so much stuff from last year people have forgotten. A lot of it involving the Rhodes family. Both Orton/Rhodes singles matches from September (the Orton/Cody May one was good too), the Cena & Rhodes/Sandow & Real Americans 6-Man Tags, Rhodes/Shield/Usos, the Rhodes/Wyatts Tags, Cody/Sandow from SummerSlam, Jericho/Cody from Main Event... Goldust and Cody were all over the place.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Goldust/Booker v. Jericho/Christian >>>> etc etc etc etc etc


well yeah1993.

what do you think of the PPV match they had? you need to fill in the void between myself _(who digs it)_ & Cal _(who doesn't b/c he's Cal)_



ATF said:


> Couldn't agree more.
> 
> Except somehow, the masses do forget. Very easily. Few if any remember Shield/Rhodes I at the moment, and basically nobody remembers the No DQ rematch which in my mind was even better. You could argue which of the two was better easily, but I think the 2nd match had a few tweaks.
> 
> Hell, there is so, so much stuff from last year people have forgotten. A lot of it involving the Rhodes family. Both Orton/Rhodes singles matches from September (the Orton/Cody May one was good too), the Cena & Rhodes/Sandow & Real Americans 6-Man Tags, Rhodes/Shield/Usos, the Rhodes/Wyatts Tags, Cody/Sandow from SummerSlam, Jericho/Cody from Main Event... Goldust and Cody were all over the place.


Sub out the triple threat tag, which was the only match during the Goldust/Cody run that I felt was average, w/the Survivor Series Elimination match. Or if that isn't proper enough Goldust & his singles matches from last year. All of 'em. Oh and replace Jericho vs Rhodes w/both Del Rio vs Rhodes & Axel vs Rhodes from Main Event. Much better matches.

Long story short, yes, they were radical last year. Which crushes me here in 2014. Still managed to have some good affairs, although they've been lumped w/too much nonsense so far.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Sub out the triple threat tag, which was the only match during the Goldust/Cody run that I felt was average, w/the Survivor Series Elimination match. Or if that isn't proper enough Goldust & his singles matches from last year. All of 'em. Oh and replace Jericho vs Rhodes w/both Del Rio vs Rhodes & Axel vs Rhodes from Main Event. Much better matches.
> 
> Long story short, yes, they were radical last year. Which crushes me here in 2014. Still managed to have some good affairs, although they've been lumped w/too much nonsense so far.


Dat Uso hate. Those two were only two guys in a sea of 6-10, they can't bring a match down THAT much for someone's enjoyment... I think. :side: Still, good that you didn't crap on the Raw Country 10-Man Tag (that one also had the Usos and the Rhodes Bros).

Don't remember ADR/Cody or Axel/Cody myself. They sound good, though. 

And even this year, Goldie and Cody had their share of good stuff. Rhodes/Wyatts from the very first SD of the year was awesome. But yeah, they went from the hottest act in the world to... well, basically jobbers. Why Cody/Goldust didn't happen at WM 30 is still beyond me. Would've only made that amazing show even better. Way to go, Creative. Way to go.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shield & Rhodes Bros were out there too. Just nothing overly special about the match from anyone. Lets not conform to everyone having to pick and choose matches b/c one involves someone they dislike. Also another way to bring up a pointless topic too. RAW Country tag match was...ok. I saw some flipping out for it, but nothing about it stuck out much either. The RAW ten man tag from 2011 demolishes it.

Can't gripe about WM considering they had their plans, short term or not, and it all worked out swell. There was next to no room for those two to have any exposure when you run down the show. Of course, it could _(and should) _ have been there over the Divas trainwreck. However, we know that wouldn't occur. Nor should it after the most shocking result of all time making everyone in the crowd sit and reflect; rather than react.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ok, ok, sorry for confronting your feelings towards those two. Just found it weird that the few matches that you only thought were average at best from the Rhodes Bros courtesy had to feature the Usos on them, but that was just me. 

Well, considering how the show was planned out, you seem to be right. Not sure if they would have a decent place of exposure on the card. The way it's going I guess this will blow up at SummerSlam instead. Fitting.

And then again, 2014 still has a large pool of guys who delievered greatness on their own. Bryan, Wyatts, Shield, Cesaro, Cena, Sheamus and Zayn being the obvious standouts. I still wonder if Shield/Wyatts will ever have a gimmick match on PPV :hmm:


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Consensus on Rock/Hogan?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Imo Rock/Hogan was a spectacle on epic proportions, with an insane crowd to boot, and the in-ring action itself was pretty decent. Pretty good stuff.

Now if you mean the rematch, though...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> well yeah1993.
> 
> what do you think of the PPV match they had? you need to fill in the void between myself _(who digs it)_ & Cal _(who doesn't b/c he's Cal)_


No Mercy? Love it. Cal is a pooface.

that match > Edge/Rey v. Angle/Benoit from the same show, btw


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I swear if you go out on Reddit or Facebook and you dare to say that (that Golder T/UnAmericans was better than Bangle/Redge), you'll be more wrecked by angry-ass fans than Rey Mysterio at the Royal Rumble :lmao

Even if you do tell them why, they'll just call you a blind hater :lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I could do the exact same thing in on this forum outside of this thread. :lmao I still to this day am not entirely sure what reddit even is.


Nice to see Bangle and Redge kinda catch on after four years.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't forget stuff like Cena/Edge LMS and TLC, Punk/Jericho PB, HBK/Angle, Shane/Angle, the Angle/Benoit series... in general, A LOT involving Kurt Angle in it :lol

I'm sure most wrestling fans in the world think he's truly one of the best ever. If they saw the reactions to his stuff over here, they'd go fucking madmen :lmao

I do have to admit that I like Bangle/Redge myself - the part from Rey's hot tag onto all the way until the stupid finishing stretch were Angle just goes, well, Angle with his finisher overkill stuff is pretty damn awesome and exciting. Too bad the stuff inbetween isn't that good. Kinda really boring actually.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Is it weird that I find myself enjoying Glacier matches in WCW?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Glacier and Ernest Miller were both fun.

Usos tag matches rule. Since when was it a crime to have fun matches? Another underrated one from last year was Shield vs. Tons of Funk. And the Thanksgiving Tag Team Turmoil.

Bangle/Redge and Bookdust/Vitamin C matches were equally awesome. That 2/3 Falls match. Piff


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched Disc One of the Raw After The Show DVD. Best parts for me were the 'Austin Music City' and 'Taker-A-Rooni' segments.

When HHH came out in that Taker segment, i said "Is that Val Venus' :lol


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

So many turns after Survivor Series 2001.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I thought Stone Cold 'stunnered' Hogan during that segment on the Raw: After the Show DVD. Was it during a match then?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Glacier and Ernest Miller were both fun.
> 
> Usos tag matches rule. Since when was it a crime to have fun matches? Another underrated one from last year was Shield vs. Tons of Funk. And the Thanksgiving Tag Team Turmoil.
> 
> Bangle/Redge and Bookdust/Vitamin C matches were equally awesome. That 2/3 Falls match. Piff


Ernest "Somebody Call His Momma" Miller was kinda underrated if you ask me.

Usos had another of the MAAANY great Tags last year, vs Shield from the MITB pre-show. That shit was awesome.

Hell, Shield was/is/WILL BE awesome forever. I remember that Shield/Tons Of Funk tag pretty well, very underrated. More Shield underrated goodness tho? Shield/PTP from Night Of Champions. Far from the typical Shield level, but still decent. And the original 11 On 3 Handicap match, that was another forgotten MOTYC too. OH YEAH, and Shield/Jericho, Sheamus & Ryback, how can we have all forgotten THAT? And their super fun Main Event squashes too... and the 3 On 1 Handicaps vs Ziggler and Show on the same night, really fun stuff... and the 6-Man Tag vs Henry & Usos on Main Event... and the Orton/Sheamus/Show one, one of the best WM openers ever... OH and the one against Woods, Neville & Graves on NXT... GODDAMN THE SHIELD IS AWESOME. Oh, not forgetting basically every singles match they were involved in, especially Rollins/Bryan and Rollins/Cena. Except for, maybe, the Ambrose/Kane ones. Outside of the very first one on Smackdown, they sucked.

Anything I'm forgetting? Oh yeah, just the ENTIRE feud with Team Hell No (not just the TLC and Kofi matches), don't wanna throw that out either.

This little trip down memory lane has REALLY pumped me up for Shield/Evolution tomorrow night.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

When were those good Jericho/Christian vs BookDust tags? They had a PPV match and a Raw match I seem to recall....


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The one people talk about the most is the one from No Mercy 02.

Oh, and btw, FF said it right: I don't think it's a crime to have just straight up FUN Tag matches. Even if they do end up looking kinda sloppy.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

DOUBLE POST HERE:

Ok, let's settle a score here. Which is the true best Shield match of all time: *vs. Team Hell No & Ryback from TLC 2012* or *vs. The Wyatt Family from Elimination Chamber 2014*?

Tbh if I had to choose my favorite, I'd pick Shield/Wyatts.


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

I've never rewatch the TLC one but I'd say Shield/Wyatts too.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Shield/Wyatts cause it had more heat and is not a gimmick match.


----------



## RealManRegal (Dec 11, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Watched Disc One of the Raw After The Show DVD. Best parts for me were the 'Austin Music City' and 'Taker-A-Rooni' segments.
> 
> When HHH came out in that Taker segment, i said "Is that Val Venus' :lol


Yeah he was the double of the Big Valbowski!

I've watched the first 2 discs, pretty cool though showing them in chronological order means they get a bit repetitive for a while where it's just variations on either a Stone Cold beer bash or people to the Spinerooni.

The Takerooni bit was awesome but you get the sense that Taker was legit pissed, he looked serious when talking into the camera, then after Vince came out there was an exchange that the camera briefly picked up (but muted bits out) where it seems Vince says to Taker "you tried to fuck me" and Taker says something like "you've been fucking me for years".


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just rewatched Bangle/Redge NM 2002, gonna go with ****1/2 for it, loved it a lot and those last 5 mins were fucking insane. 

As for best Shield match, gonna stay with the TLC 2012 6 man, the shield/Wyatts match went down to ****1/2 last watch and the TLX stayed at ****3/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

THE CAL SCALE, Bangle & Redge, occasionally Zig Zag Paddy Swagg... STOP STEALING MY SHIT, YOU SHITS!!!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is Jericho/HBK (WM 19) still considered a 'classic'? Because i watched it for the first time in years and fucking loved it TBH. 

Would have liked a different finish though IMO.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

After the Show DVD gets kind of boring the closer you get to the recent years imo.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I still like the TLC 2012 match as the best Shield match ever, but that EC tag is damn close. TLC got ****3/4 and was co MotY for 2012 with Punk/Bryan OTL and Lesnar/Cena ER. EC got ****1/2 from me and is second to Cesaro/Zayn Arrival for 2014 MotY so far. Love them both to death though, you really can't go wrong either way.





The Hitman said:


> Is Jericho/HBK (WM 19) still considered a 'classic'? Because i watched it for the first time in years and fucking loved it TBH.
> 
> Would have liked a different finish though IMO.


To me it most certainly is. It's my favorite of the HBK/Jericho series, and it's the best non-Taker singles match for Michaels at WM IMO. It tells such a great story, how the student thinks he has surpassed the teacher. They really did make it look like Shawn Michaels was wrestling himself at times. The flashyness of the counters and the pace fit really, really well with the theme they were going for. I've watched that match probably 5-6 times total and it just never gets old. A Top 10 match for both guys entire WWE careers. I also think it was the best match on the best WrestleMania of all time, which is a high praise.

However, yes, the finish could have done with some tweaking. I guess they didn't want it to end with a completely definitive win for HBK for whatever reason.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

You are the cult of personality in here Big Z, but you already knew that

~~~~~~~
Cjack have you seen this ?





 I'm in a Owen Hart Mood, any recommends ? The question was for everyone

~~~~~~~~~
Also, Ive only seen it one time, but Shield/Wyatt EC would get the "full five" still MOTY


Edit: Zep I flip flop with that match all the time, I'm currently on the "looking down on it" mood


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Have you seen the Owen/Bret Action Zone match? That is an amazing match, think I gave it only a bit less than the WM one. 

Never been a huge fan of Jericho/HBK WM 19, maybe that will change when I watch WM 19 for 2003 reviews down the road.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Just rewatched Bangle/Redge NM 2002, gonna go with ****1/2 for it, loved it a lot and those last 5 mins were fucking insane.


Bring on the Bangle/Redge love. (Y)



WrestlingforEverII said:


> After the Show DVD gets kind of boring the closer you get to the recent years imo.


Not surprising since the later years don't have good ol' Rock and Austin to keep the entertainment going. The St. Louis segment before WM XIX was hilarious, specially when Rock mentioned that sign saying "Scorpion King Sucks".


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Can't believe im saying this, after all its 2003 Trips, but..........

HHH/Booker T (WM 19) is a fucking good match lol IMHO, i really enjoyed the most of it, even with HHH, but one thing, still fuck that finish, looks worse every time i see it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

GUYS! We were just talking about it the other day, and now Clash of the Champions are being uploaded on the Network! I have no idea where they're located in the catalog but if you search 'clash of the champions' you'll find I and XXII have been uploaded. Awesome!


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Bring on the Bangle/Redge love. (Y)
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprising since the later years don't have good ol' Rock and Austin to keep the entertainment going. The St. Louis segment before WM XIX was hilarious, specially when Rock mentioned that sign saying "Scorpion King Sucks".


Yep makes perfect sense. 

I had been dying to see that Evolution/Mick/Austin/Rock/Lillian segment from 2004. Was delighted to see they put that on there.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Are you sure Jack? I cant find them when I searched for it?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Search 'clash of the champions' and they're both on page 2 of the search results. Clash I from '88 and Clash XXII from '93. They're not in any catalogs yet as far as what I saw.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The way Vince threw Brian Hebner around at WM19 :lmao


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hmm for some reason I didnt go to page two, thanks :mark: 

I dont think they are on PS3 yet though


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

NAITCH said:


> You are the cult of personality in here Big Z, but you already knew that
> 
> ~~~~~~~
> Cjack have you seen this ?
> ...



I sure have. Love that match, absolutely awesome stuff. Mankind in 1996-1997>just about everyone and everything. 1996 is probably one of the toughest years to decide who was truly the worker of the year. You have Shawn Michaels killing it for the most part as WWE champ, Mankind coming out of nowhere to deliver the greatest feud of all time against Taker, plus his classic with Shawn. Then in WCW you have Regal, Mysterio, and Benoit all tearing it up week in and week out on Nitro and PPV. Really, who was the best that year? Tough call.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> GUYS! We were just talking about it the other day, and now Clash of the Champions are being uploaded on the Network! I have no idea where they're located in the catalog but if you search 'clash of the champions' you'll find I and XXII have been uploaded. Awesome!



AWESOME! Just searched and found them. I sure hope they add the rest soon :mark: :mark:


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Search 'clash of the champions' and they're both on page 2 of the search results. Clash I from '88 and Clash XXII from '93. They're not in any catalogs yet as far as what I saw.


They had 22 COTC events within ~5 years? Holy hell.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One of my favorite WM19 moments.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ATF said:


> DOUBLE POST HERE:
> 
> Ok, let's settle a score here. Which is the true best Shield match of all time: *vs. Team Hell No & Ryback from TLC 2012* or *vs. The Wyatt Family from Elimination Chamber 2014*?
> 
> Tbh if I had to choose my favorite, I'd pick Shield/Wyatts.


Shield/Wyatts. I never thought The Shield would top their TLC 2012 match, but then Wyatts and Shield clash and it was just... :mark:

I'm expecting a great match between Shield and Evolution tomorrow night, but I don't see it being anything like the above two, or anywhere close for that matter.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Even though in all of today I have exposed myself more and more to the awesomeness of the Shield, and realized that they really haven't had a bad match in this side of EVER (unless you count the singles stuff, where you'd have to single out the Ambrose/Kane (minus the first one) and Orton/Reigns matches (bar the latest one which I thought wasn't bad)) , am I the only one who is kinda really skeptical wheater they will deliever Shield-levels against Evolution?

I have little to no doubts that this will be good, but SHIELD GOOD as everybody expects? Really not. On Evolution's side, Batista is, well, Batista; and both Orton and HHH are really, most of times, hit or miss, depending on either circumstances or motivation. Doubt they can really step it up the ways everyone hopes.

Also helps I'm far more excited for Bryan/Kane anyways.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

The only reason to be more excited for Bryan vs Kane is if the mask somehow transforms Kane into 2002 Kane. Yes, Batista will hold back the Shield/Evolution match if he's given more time then is necessary but HHH and Orton can still bring it when they want to and I'll think they'll want to prove a point so..

I fear Bryan vs. Kane will be much of the same with their matches.

I don't think the Shield match will be out of this world but it won't be a stinker either.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bryan/Kane is a really well-built feud. I don't know what more you could ask from it. And it's :bryan3. How can the match not rule? And it's The Shield. They had a good match between Justin Gabriel, Zack Ryder, and The Great Khali. How dare anyone doubt their ability to have a classic? Even if :batista3 is there.

:lmao at this Big E/Titus match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One of my fave promos:

x1st1uk


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The TLC match was better in my eyes just from the point of view that I ended up watching it like 7 or 8 times and it never went down on viewing. Just a great match, a ton of fun, made The Shield look brilliant to make that much impact in their debut match in the WWE. Shield/Wyatts was a great match, but I only watched it once. 

Betting on WWE for the first time with the Extreme Rules PPV tomorrow and my interest in the show has naturally increased because of that. Rooting for :bryan3 tomorrow for what might be the first time ever from me because my money is on the line! :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I just rewatched the current MOTY in WWE for me, Cesaro/Zayn Arrival, and the rating keeps up at ****3/4. Masterpiece is saying short stuff. One of the greatest babyface performances of our generation (if not ever) by Zayn, and Cesaro was Cesaro and you need just that for awesomeness granted. Only behind the dreaded Bret/Owen as the absolute greatest PPV opener EVER. 

Ironically, the very next PPV opener, HHH/Bryan, was the third best ever - and Bryan/Wyatt has to fall somewhere in the Top 10 too, maybe inbetween 6-8. The only not amazing opener was Big E/Swagger, and even THAT was quite solid. If 2013 = Year Of The Tag Team Matches, then 2014 = Year Of The Openers :lol

For when the moment arrives for Sami Zayn's debut in the main roster, and the inevitable dream match with Bryan... I think I'll masturbate out of sheer sight of the awesomeness alone :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Short Taker promo from SMW:

*The Undertaker Promo (07.15.1995) (Smoky Mountain Wrestling)*

x1stal7


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> One of my favorite WM19 moments.












:bahgawd it's Satan himself


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> :bahgawd it's Satan himself



JR has had so many classic moments, you really can't even begin to count them. My favorite of all time, outside of "GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY! GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY! WITH GOD AS MY WITNESS, HE IS BROKEN IN HALF!!!", were his calls for WM 22 with Shawn putting a whooping on Vince. You can really tell JR is both passionate and thoroughly enjoying himself listening to him verbally tear Vince a new one.

It's amazing how much a commentator can elevate a match. JR was just amazing in that Sheamus/Show match at HiaC, and he wasn't even the lead play by play. I'd rather watch a *** match with JRs commentary than a ***1/2 star match with Cole's. That's just the honest to god truth of the matter.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> No Mercy? Love it. Cal is a pooface.
> 
> that match > Edge/Rey v. Angle/Benoit from the same show, btw


100% yes.

Edge/Mysterio vs Angle/Benoit is mediocre as holy hell. Never want to see it again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I AM NOT A POOFACE.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I AM NOT A POOFACE.


----------



## Kurt 'Olympic Gold (Jul 6, 2006)

Like the fact that most match extras on the Batista BR are TV matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kurt 'Olympic Gold said:


> Like the fact that most match extras on the Batista BR are TV matches.


Yeah TV matches being on the set is great. Shame they are all Batista matches though, otherwise it could have been a killer set.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cal, two questions:

1) when will you do another "Top 5 reasons I hate x guy" video?

2) when will you watch some :barrett stuff - especially the :sheamus series?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No idea when I'll be able to do another video in general. Fucked off about the whole thing tbh.

I'll watch Barrett stuff when I don't feel like shit. Which could be a long way away.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, whatever happened in Calland must've been bad.

In tribute to CAL and his... well, problem, imma go watch TAKER/FLAIR from WM 18, for the first in... well, almost ever


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Finished the Jericho Vengeance matches. Both are fun, match against Rock is superior.

3 more RAWs and 2 more SDs left and 2001 is finishe :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Batista set with TV matches would've been nice if it had more Evolution tags from 2004. But I guess they couldn't be there because of Benoit and the fact they wanted to include a match where Evolution actually _wins_. That Booker/RVD tag ain't bad but they had much better stuff.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I'll watch Barrett stuff *when I don't feel like shit*. Which could be a long way away.


Which is why you're a pooface.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Wow, whatever happened in Calland must've been bad.
> 
> In tribute to CAL and his... well, problem, imma go watch TAKER/FLAIR from WM 18, for the first in... well, almost ever


Yeah things ain't good for me right now.

Taker/Flair rules. MOTN quite EASILY imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ol Booger Red ftw.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Build up to the Flair match was so damn awesome. Best thing they had going into WM X8. ARN. DAVID FLAIR GETTING MURDERED. :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, Taker/Flair, talk ARN ANDERSON about a FIGHT. A brutal, bloody fist fight ARN ANDERSON. True physicality, great storyARN ANDERSONtelling, loved some of the visuals like Taker sitting up while on the Figure 4, and yes, easily the MOTN for WM 18 at ****. Did I mention ARN ANDERSON? Because ARN ANDERSON.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LA RESISTANCE THEME SONG used as music for the build up video :mark:. Only good thing about that shitty awful team.

(yes, watching the match myself now lol. handy having ever WM and RR on my PC to watch random stuff like this when I want without getting out of my chair)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Rock/Hogan Mania 18 is MOTY

and flair/taker is a top 3-4 streak match


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rock/Hogan WM 18 MOTY... certainly true.

Except it's not. Not even close. Well, imo at least. On that, it's not even MOTN :lol

And even if it was, it took place in the same year as *Taker/Lesnar HIAC*, no way would it be MOTY.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

PPV matches better than Rock/Hogan in 02:

Kurt Angle Vs Edge - ***1/4 - 2 (Backlash)
Edge Vs Kurt Angle - ***1/4 - 2 (Judgment Day)
Ric Flair Vs Mr McMahon - ***1/4 - 2 (Royal Rumble)
The Rock Vs Triple H Vs Brock Lesnar - ***1/4 - 2 (Global Warning Tour)
Goldust Vs Rob Van Dam - ***1/4 - 2 (No Way Out)
Steve Austin Vs The Big Show & Ric Flair - ***1/4 - 2 (Judgment Day)
The Big Show Vs Booker T - ***1/4 - 2 (Vengeance)
Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show - ***1/4 - 2 (Survivor Series)
Chris Benoit Vs Rob Van Dam - ***1/2 - 3 (SummerSlam)
Jamie Noble Vs Billy Kidman - ***1/2 - 3 (Survivor Series)
The Rock Vs Chris Jericho - ***1/2 - 3 (Royal Rumble)
Bubba Ray & Spike Dudley & Jeff Hardy Vs 3 Minute Warning & Rico - ***1/2 - 3 (Survivor Series)
The Big Show Vs Kurt Angle - ***1/2 - 3 (Armageddon)
Bubba Ray & Spike Dudley Vs Chris Benoit & Eddie Guerrero - ***1/2 - 3 (Vengeance)
Billy Kidman Vs Tajiri - ***1/2 - 3 (Backlash)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Edge - ***1/2 - 3 (Unforgiven)
Edge Vs William Regal - ***1/2 - 3 (No Way Out)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Benoit - ***3/4 - 4 (Armageddon)
Rey Mysterio Vs Kurt Angle - ***3/4 - 4 (SummerSlam)
Brock Lesnar Vs Rob Van Dam - ***3/4 - 4 (Vengeance)
Chris Jericho Vs Rob Van Dam - ***3/4 - 4 (King of the Ring)
Jamie Noble Vs Tajiri - ***3/4 - 4 (No Mercy)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Rob Van Dam - ***3/4 - 4 (Judgment Day)
Booker T & Goldust Vs Lance Storm & Christian - ***3/4 - 4 (SummerSlam)
The Dudley Boys Vs Lance Storm & William Regal Vs Booker T & Goldust Vs Chris Jericho & Christian - ***3/4 - 4 (Armageddon)
William Regal Vs Edge - ***3/4 - 4 (Royal Rumble)
Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Jericho Vs Booker T Vs RVD Vs Kane - **** - 5 (Survivor Series)
Rob Van Dam Vs Eddie Guerrero - **** - 5 (Backlash)
The Undertaker Vs Steve Austin - **** - 5 (Backlash)
The Undertaker Vs The Rock Vs Kurt Angle - **** - 5 (Vengeance)
The Undertaker Vs The Rock - ****1/4 - 6 (No Way Out)
Edge & Rey Mysterio Vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle Vs Los Guerreros - ****1/4 - 6 (Survivor Series)
Brock Lesnar Vs The Undertaker - ****1/4 - 6 (Unforgiven)
The Rock Vs Brock Lesnar - ****1/4 - 6 (SummerSlam)
The Undertaker Vs Ric Flair - ****1/4 - 6 (WrestleMania X8)
30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ****1/2 - 7 (Royal Rumble)
Brock Lesnar Vs The Undertaker - ***** - 9 (No Mercy)

TV would have a handful too at least.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

NAITCH said:


> Rock/Hogan Mania 18 is MOTY


Not even close IMO.

Cal mentioned a few better, i know the atmosphere is amazing and at the end of the day it is Rock vs Hogan, but i think all that clouds peoples' judgments sometimes.

Then again if you think it is MOTY, then its your choice.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There's so much on that list that wouldn't come close to Hogan vs Rock.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rock/Hogan is MOTN but I wouldn't quite go MOTY for it. But I believe that you have no business liking wrestling if you hate that match. It's just unreal!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

C'mon Cal, most of those aint in Rock/Hogan's League, Brock/Taker would be a hair behind rock/hogan for me but the latter is my MOTY. It epitomizes Pro-graps and there is so so much more to the match than the Crowd


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Damn Cal :lmao The Global Warning triple threat is on there :mark: I like Rock/Hogan a ton, but the HIAC is loads better, for match quality at least.

Flair/Taker is one of my favorite matches to watch. Arn showing up makes :mark: every time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I "get" how big the match is and shit, I just don't like it as much as most people. 2 people I don't care for in a match that's remembered more for the crowd than anything else.

Just got done watching Taker/Flair :mark:. Match still fucking rules the planet and yeah, its far better than Rock/Hogan in the same night. And I don't hate Rock/Hogan either.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That borefest of a Rumble match. Bad memories there. Except for the Undertaker part & the pops for Goldust/Perfect.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Booooo. 02 Rumble is one of the best. Would be even better if not for the slow part after Undertaker's elimination and... Austin/HHH stuff onwards.

And for the record, if I was doing another top 100 WWF/E matches list, Hogan/Rock would have a better chance of making my list still than half of those matches I posted. That list for me is based on pure QUALITY of the match, while a top 100 list was... well there wasn't any sort of "rule" to what made the list and what didn't . But it wouldn't be based entirely around match quality.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I have gained a bit more love for Rock/Hogan this past year or so. Its such a spectacle, and even if the actual 'wrestling' isn't so top notch, it didn't really need to be. They both did all the spots well enough and more importantly, it felt like the match it should have been, the big fuck off match between two of the biggest icons.

Hogan did ok too considering he had broken ribs in that one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The wrestling in Hogan vs Rock was good. It's wrestling. There's plenty of ways to be good/great. I don't really understand the separation between stuff like this.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Looking to maybe get some free tickets for WWE when they come to Sheff again in a couple of weeks. Sheff Arena site has 2 matches posted:

Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - WWE World Heavyweight Championship Match
The Shield vs Kane, Ryback and Curtis Axel – Six-Man Tag Match

IF I get free tickets I'll go, but potentially my first time seeing THE SHIELD live and it'd be against RybAxel and Kane? :| And Orton/Bryan live? Unless they worked similar to their last 2 tv matches I'd probably shoot myself .

Edit: Hogan/Rock match IS good in terms of "quality" and shit especially considering the limitations of both men... it just isn't anywhere near as good as a ton of other matches imo.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Children gather round, let me tell you about how AMAZING Pillman/Austin vs Steamboat/Douglas from COTC XXII is. Seriously, it's on the Network now, log your lazy asses onto it right meow and watch it. Brilliance. Sheer, unadulterated brilliance. WCW had so many classic tags in the early 1990s, and this is surely one of the 10 or so best from that era. I can't say enough good things about it.

Then, once you are done watching that fabulous match, you might as well keep it rolling and watch the Sting/Rhodes/Cactus Jack vs Orndorf/Vader/Windham Thundercage match. That's top notch as well. THEN, once you are done with those two wonderful pieces of work, KEEP watching after the credits and such. Cactus Jack cuts one of his classic promos that leaves your skin feeling all tingly "FOR 9 LONG YEARS, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TELLING ME CACTUS JACK, YOURE A PSYCHO" "WITH ALL THE WILL IN THIS TWISTED MIND, YOU CANT STOP CACTUS JACK"

I think I need a cigarette after this. Oh boy.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> The wrestling in Hogan vs Rock was good. It's wrestling. There's plenty of ways to be good/great. I don't really understand the separation between stuff like this.


(Y)

And stop agreeing with me bro :lelbron


are any of the flair/austins from 2002 any good ?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think i've finally decided to start one of the Yearbooks tomorrow, each disc is around 4 hours long, and collates all the top matches/angles from all promotions in that given year. Got the 1997 one ready to go, i forgot just how good this year was:



Spoiler: 1997 Yearbook Listing



DISC 1
Super Liger vs. Koji Kanemoto (Finish Only) (NJPW 1/4/97)
Jushin Liger vs. Ultimo Dragon (Finish Only) (NJPW 1/4/97)
Shinya Hashimoto vs. Riki Choshu (NJPW 1/4/97)
bWo Vignette (ECW TV 1/4/97)
Bob Backlund Intro + Flying Nuns Debut / Brother Love & Flying Nuns Interview / Bob Backlund + Goldust (WWF Shotgun 1/4/97)
Megumi Kudo vs. Shinobu Kandori (Street Fight) (LLPW 1/5/97)
Shoji Nakamaki & Seiji Yamakawa vs.. Matsahura Matsunaga & Great Kojika (Barbwire Spider Net, Scaffold Match) (BJPW 1/6/97)
Sid + Shawn Michaels (RAW 1/6/97)
Bret Hart vs. Vader (Finish Only) (RAW 1/6/97)
NWO + The Giant + Sting (Nitro 1/6/97)
Cicloncito Ramirez vs. Damiancito El Guerrero (CMLL 1/7/97)
Steven Regal vs. Psicosis (WCWSN 1/11/97)
Terry Funk Announcement / Raven + Sandman Brawl (ECW TV 1/11/97)
Sisters of Love Arrested! / Fondle Me Elmo / Goldust Announcement (WWF Shotgun 1/11/97)
Hiroumi Yagi vs. Tomoko Kuzumi (JWP 1/12/97)
Sid Promo / Shawn Michaels interview (RAW 1/13/97)
Davey Boy Smith vs. Rocky Maivia (Finish Only) (RAW 1/13/97)
DDP + The Outsiders / Wolfpac promo (Nitro 1/13/97)
Hulk Hogan vs. The Giant (Nitro 1/13/97)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Steve Williams & Johnny Ace (Finish Only) (AJPW 1/17/97)
PG-13 vs. Flash Flanagan & Steven Dunn (USWA 1/18/97)
Jerry Lawler Interview (USWA 1/18/97)
PG-13 + Flash Flanagan / PG-13 Interview (USWA 1/18/97)
NWO Souled Out Announcement / Steven Regal vs. Psicosis (WCWSN 1/18/97)
Ricky Morton & Tommy Rich vs. The Gangstas (ECW TV 1/18/97)
Sandman vs. Raven (JIP) (ECW TV 1/18/97)


DISC 2
Steve Austin + Terry Funk / Steve Austin vs. Goldust (Shotgun 1/18/97)
Mayumi Ozaki, Sugar Sato & Chikayo Nagashima vs. Chigusa Nagayo, Sonoko Kato & Meiko Satomura (GAEA 1/19/97)
Royal Rumble (Finish Only) (Rumble 1/19/97)
Shawn Michaels vs. Sid (Finish Only) (Rumble 1/19/97)
Jun Akiyama vs. Akira Taue (AJPW 1/20/97)
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 1/20/97)
Aja Kong vs. Kaoru Ito (Finish Only) (AJW 1/20/97)
Kyoko Inoue vs. Takako Inoue (Finish Only) (AJW 1/20/97)
Bret Hart + Steve Austin / Gorilla Monsoon + Steve Austin + Bret Hart (RAW 1/20/97)
Steve Austin vs. Undertaker (Finish Only) (RAW 1/20/97)
Randy Savage Returns! (Nitro 1/20/97)
Eric Bischoff Promo / Hulk Hogan Interview (Nitro 1/20/97)
Ultimo Dragon vs. Dean Malenko / The Giant Promo (Clash 1/21/97)
Chris Benoit vs. Kevin Sullivan (Falls Count Anywhere) (Clash 1/21/97)
Lex Luger vs. Scott Hall (Finish Only) (Clash 1/21/97)
Volk Han vs. Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 1/22/97)
Jerry Lawler vs. Shaquile Ali / Jerry Lawler + Make A Wish Foundation (USWA 1/25/97)
Flash Flanagan Update / PG-13 Promo (USWA 1/25/97)
Tommy Dreamer Attacked / Taz Promo / Shane Douglas + Masked Superstar (ECW TV 1/25/97)
Show Opening / DDP + The NWO (Souled Out 1/25/97)


DISC 3
Scott Hall & Kevin Nash vs. Rick & Scott Steiner (Finish Only) (Souled Out 1/25/97)
Eddy Guerrero vs. Syxx (Ladder match) (Souled Out 1/25/97)
Hulk Hogan vs. The Giant (Finish Only) (Souled Out 1/25/97)
Shawn Michaels + Bret Hart + Undertaker + Steve Austin (RAW 1/27/97)
Randy Anderson + NWO + Rick & Scott Steiner (Nitro 1/27/97)
Hulk Hogan Interview (Nitro 1/27/97)
Hulk Hogan vs. The Giant (Nitro 1/27/97)
Terry Funk Promo (ECW 2/1/97)
Taz Promo (ECW 2/1/97)
Raven Promo (ECW 2/1/97)
Raven vs. Sandman (Finish Only) (ECW 2/1/97)
Headbangers Interview (Shotgun 2/1/97)
Paul E. Dangerously promo (Crossing The Line Again 2/1/97)
Tommy Rich vs. Terry Funk (Crossing The Line Again 2/1/97)
Shawn Michaels + Bret Hart + Steve Austin + Sid (RAW 2/3/97)
DDP + Outsiders + Randy Savage + Sting (Nitro 2/3/97)
Roddy Piper + Hulk Hogan (Nitro 2/3/97)
El Hijo del Santo vs. ***** Casas (CMLL Japan 2/6/97)
Bobby Bolton + Mike Samples (USWA 2/8/97)
Brian Pillman Invades Memphis (USWA 2/8/97)
Spellbinder + Brian Christopher (USWA 2/8/97)
Undertaker vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley (Shotgun 2/8/97)
Jushin Liger vs. Shinjiro Otani (NJPW 2/9/97)
DDP + Sting & Randy Savage (Nitro 2/10/97)
NWO + Randy Anderson (Nitro 2/10/97)
Hulk Hogan + Roddy Piper (Nitro 2/10/97)
Rocky Maivia vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley (Finish Only) (RAW Thursday 2/13/97)
Shawn Michaels loses his smile (RAW Thursday 2/13/97)
Steve Austin vs. Sid (Finish Only) (RAW Thursday 2/13/97)
PG-13 vs. Jerry Lawler & Bill Dundee (USWA 2/15/97)
Terry Funk Promo (ECW TV 2/15/97)
Playstation Commercial (NJPW 2/16/97)
Jushin Liger vs. Koji Kanemoto (NJPW 2/16/97) WON ****3/4


DISC 4
Shinya Hashimoto vs. Kazuo Yamazaki (NJPW 2/16/97)
Bret Hart vs. Undertaker vs. Vader vs. Steve Austin (Final Four 2/16/97)
Hunter Hearst Helmsley & That Huge Amazon + Goldust & Marlena (RAW 2/17/97)
Steve Austin + Bret Hart (RAW 2/17/97)
Jerry Lawler + Paul Heyman (RAW 2/17/97)
Bret Hart vs. Sid (RAW 2/17/97)
Steven Regal vs. Prince Iaukea (Finish Only) (Nitro 2/17/97)
Randy Anderson vs. Nick Patrick / Hulk Hogan T-shirt Commercial (Nitro 2/17/97)
NWO + Steiners vignette (Nitro 2/17/97)
Roddy Piper at Alcatraz (Nitro 2/17/97)
Hulk Hogan Interview (Nitro 2/17/97)
Latin Lover vs. Hector Garza vs. Octagon vs. Heavy Metal (Rey de Reyes) (AAA 2/21/97)
El Hijo del Santo vs. Rey Misterio Jr (Promo Azteca 2/21/97)
PG-13 vs. Jerry Lawler & Brian Christopher (USWA 2/22/97)
Raven Promo (ECW TV 2/22/97)
Team Sasuke Interview (ECW TV 2/22/97)
Team TAKA Interview (ECW TV 2/22/97)
Pulp Fiction / Taz + Sabu Brawl (ECW TV 2/22/97)
Raven + Sandman (Cyberslam 2/22/97)
Cheetah Master vs. Ace Darling (Super 8 Finals) (ECWA 2/22/97)
Mayumi Ozaki vs. Chigusa Nagayo (Street Fight) (GAEA 2/23/97)
Dean Malenko vs. Syxx (Finish Only) (SuperBrawl 2/23/97)
Lex Luger & The Giant vs. Scott Hall & Kevin Nash (Finish Only) (SuperBrawl 2/23/97)
Hulk Hogan vs. Roddy Piper (Finish Only) (SuperBrawl 2/23/97)
The Eliminators + Paul Heyman / Stevie Richards vs. Little Guido (RAW 2/24/97)
Jerry Lawler + Ken Shamrock (RAW 2/24/97)
Legion of Doom vs. Headbangers (RAW 2/24/97)
Shawn Michaels music video (RAW 2/24/97)


DISC 5
Tommy Dreamer vs. D-Von Dudley (RAW 2/24/97)
Eddy Guerrero & Chris Jericho vs. Faces of Fear (Nitro 2/24/97)
Diamond Dallas Page vs. Dave Taylor (Finish Only) (Nitro 2/24/97)
NWO Interview (Nitro 2/24/97)
Lex Luger & The Giant vs. Harlem Heat (Nitro 2/24/97)
Yuki Ishikawa vs. Alexander Otsuka (BattlARTS 2/28/97)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Gary Albright & Yoshihiro Takayama (AJPW 3/1/97)
Mankind promo (RAW 3/3/97)
Steve Austin Interview (RAW 3/3/97)
Owen Hart vs. Davey Boy Smith (RAW 3/3/97)
Eric Bischoff + Harvey Schiller (Nitro 3/3/97)
Roddy Piper tryouts (Nitro 3/3/97)
NWO Interview (Nitro 3/3/97)
ADDED BACK: Atlantis vs. Black Warrior (CMLL 3/4/97)
Jushin Liger & Wild Pegasus vs. Shinjiro Otani & Tatsuhito Takaiwa (NJPW 3/8/97)
Raven + Terry Funk (ECW 3/8/97)
Hiroumi Yagi vs. Tomoko Kuzumi (JWP 3/9/97)
New opening (RAW 3/10/97)
Ken Shamrock + Steve Austin + Bret Hart (RAW 3/10/97)
Jerry Lawler + Paul E. Dangerously (RAW 3/10/97)
Hulk Hogan & Dennis Rodman Intro (Nitro 3/10/97)
Roddy Piper + Four Horsemen (Nitro 3/10/97)
NWO Interview (Nitro 3/10/97)
Tarek the Great vs. American Kickboxer (Gilbert Memorial 3/13/97)
Megumi Kudo vs. Shinobu Kandori (Street Fight) (FMW 3/14/97)


DISC 6
Ultimo Dragoncito & Cicloncito Ramirez vs. Pierrotito & Damiancito El Guerrero (CMLL 3/14/97)
Raven + BWO (ECW TV 3/15/97)
Taz v Spike Dudley (ECW TV 3/15/97)
Gangstas + Dudleys (ECW TV 3/15/97)
Pulp Fiction (ECW TV 3/15/97)
Taka Michinoku, Mens Teoh, Masayoshi Motegi, Dick Togo & Shoichi Funaki vs. Great Sasuke, Super Delphin, Gran Naniwa, Gran Hamada & Masato Yakushiji (M-Pro 3/16/97)
Eddy Guerrero vs. Dean Malenko (No DQ) (Uncensored 3/16/97)
Diamond Dallas Page + Randy Savage (Uncensored 3/16/97)
NWO Promo (Uncensored 3/16/97)
Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Scott Hall & Kevin Nash vs. Lex Luger, The Giant & Scott Steiner vs. Roddy Piper, Chris Benoit, Steve McMichael & Jeff Jarrett (JIP) (Uncensored 3/16/97)
Mini Goldust & Mascarita Sagrada Jr. vs. Mini Vader & Mini Mankind (RAW 3/17/97)
Bret Hart Interview (RAW 3/17/97)
Shawn Michaels Interview (RAW 3/17/97)
Bret Hart vs. Sid (Cage Match) (RAW 3/17/97)
DDP + Randy Savage & Elixabeth (Nitro 3/17/97)
Hulk Hogan + Dennis Rodman Vignette / Wolfpac Promo (Nitro 3/17/97)
Harlem Heat vs. Steiner Bros. (Finish Only) (Nitro 3/17/97)
Cibernetico Torneo (CMLL 3/18/97)
Sabu + Bill Alfonso (ECW TV 3/22/97)
Rude Interview + Shane Douglas Interview (ECW TV 3/22/97)
Dudley Boys Promo (ECW TV 3/22/97)
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (I Quit Match) (Mania 3/23/97)


DISC 7
Legion of Doom & Ahmed Johnson vs. Faarooq, Savio Vega & Crush (Chicago Street Fight) (Mania 3/23/97)
Undertaker vs. Sid (Finish Only) (Mania 3/23/97)
Owen Hart & Davey Boy Smith vs. Headbangers (Finish Only) (RAW 3/24/97) (Finish Only)
Bret Hart + Shawn Michaels (RAW 3/24/97)
Spring Stampede Commercial (Nitro 3/24/97)
Randy Savage vs. Prince Iaukea (Nitro 3/24/97)
Pitbulls & Rick Rude Promo (ECW TV 3/29/97)
Terry Funk Promo (ECW TV 3/29/97)
Taz Promo (ECW TV 3/29/97)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama (AJPW Carnival 3/30/97)
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada (AJPW Carnival 3/30/97)
Owen Hart vs. Davey Boy Smith (RAW 3/31/97)
Undertaker + Paul Bearer (RAW 3/31/97)
Steve Austin Interview (RAW 3/31/97)
Bret Hart vs. Rocky Maivia (Finish Only) (RAW 3/31/97)
Randy Savage + Diamond Dallas Page (Nitro 3/31/97)
Kevin Nash and Syxx Promo (Nitro 3/31/97)
Yoshihisa Yamamoto vs. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (RINGS 4/4/97)
Bill Dundee + Diesel & Razor (USWA 4/5/97)
Raven Promo (ECW TV 4/5/97)
Terry Funk + Raven (ECW TV 4/5/97)
Harlem Heat Interview (Spring Stampede 4/6/97)
Randy Savage vs. Diamond Dallas Page (Spring Stampede 4/6/97)
Megumi Kudo, Shinobu Kandori, Michiko Omukai & Kaori Nakayama vs. Shark Tsuchiya, Eagle Sawai, Sayori Okino & Miss Mongol (LLPW 4/7/97)
Shawn Michaels Interview (RAW 4/7/97)
Double Team World Premiere (Nitro 4/7/97)
NWO Interview (Nitro 4/7/97)


DISC 8
DDP + NWO (Nitro 4/7/97)
Dynamite Kansai vs. Hikari Fukuoka (JWP 4/8/97)
Akira Hokuto vs. Kaoru (GAEA 4/12/97)
Shinya Hashimoto vs. Naoya Ogawa (NJPW 4/12/97)
The Truth Commission vs. The Shooting Stars (USWA 4/12/97)
The Dudley Boyz Promo (ECW TV 4/12/97)
Taz Promo (ECW TV 4/12/97)
Raven Promo + Terry Funk Vignette (ECW TV 4/12/97)
Eliminators vs. Dudely Boys (Finish Only) (Barely Legal 4/13/97)
Taka Michinoku, Mens Teoh & Dick Togo vs. Great Sasuke, Gran Naniwa & Masato Yakushiji (Barely Legal 4/13/97)
Sabu vs. Taz (Barely Legal 4/13/97)
Stevie Richards vs. Terry Funk vs. Sandman (Finish Only) / Terry Funk vs. Raven (Finish Only) (Barely Legal 4/13/97)
Steve Austin Interview (RAW 4/14/97)
RAW Magazine Feature (RAW 4/14/97)
Ric Flair, Roddy Piper & Kevin Greene Interview (Nitro 4/14/97)
Lex Luger vs. Kevin Nash (Finish Only) (Nitro 4/14/97)
Yuki Ishikawa vs. Daisuke Ikeda (BattlARTS 4/15/97)
Torneo Cibernetico (CMLL 4/18/97)


DISC 9
Megumi Kudo vs. Mayumi Ozaki (No Rope Barbed Wire Barricade Double Hell Death Match) (FMW 4/18/97)
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi / Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada (AJPW Carnival 4/19/97)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (AJPW Carnival 4/19/97)
Terry Funk Speech (ECW TV 4/19/97)
Taz Promo (ECW TV 4/19/97)
Manny Fernandez vs. Robert Thompson (APW 4/19/97)
Undertaker vs. Mankind (Finish Only) (Revenge 4/20/97)
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (Revenge 4/20/97)
Steve Austin + Bret Hart (RAW 4/21/97)
Vader on Kuwait talk show (RAW 4/21/97)
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (Street Fight) (RAW 4/21/97)
Steve Austin + Brian Pillman (RAW 4/21/97)
Glacier + Wrath & Mortis (Nitro 4/21/97)
Nick Patrick Interview (Nitro 4/21/97)
Rey Misterio Jr vs. Syxx (Nitro 4/21/97)
Hulk Hogan vignette / Kevin Nash & Syxx Interview (Nitro 4/21/97)
Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (RINGS 4/22/97)
ADDED: Bobby Eaton vs. Dean Malenko (Pro 4/27/97)
Brian Pillman + Owen Hart + Davey Boy Smith + Steve Austin (RAW 4/28/97)
Vince McMahon + Bret Hart (RAW 4/28/97)
Owen Hart vs. Rocky Maivia (Finish Only) (RAW 4/28/97)
Steve Austin Promo (RAW 4/28/97)


DISC 10
Undertaker vs. Davey Boy Smith (Finish Only) (RAW 4/28/97)
Ric Flair & Roddy Piper Interview (Nitro 4/28/97)
Wolfpac Promo (Nitro 4/28/97)
Randy Savage promo (Nitro 4/28/97)
Ric Flair & Roddy Piper + NWO (Nitro 4/28/97)
Hayabusa vs. Mr. Gannosuke (Mask vs. Hair) (FMW 4/29/97)
ADD BACK: Atsushi Onita, Masato Tanaka & W*ING Kanemura vs. Cactus Jack, The Gladiator & Terry Funk (FMW 4/29/97)
Megumi Kudo vs. Shark Tsuchiya (Retirement Death Match) (Finish Only) (FMW 4/29/97)
Shinjiro Otani, Koji Kanemoto, Mens Teoh, Dick Togo & Hanzo Nakajima vs. Great Sasuke, Super Delphin, El Samurai, Norio Honaga & Gran Hamada (2//3 Falls) (NJPW 5/3/97)
Shinya Hashimoto vs. Naoya Ogawa (NJPW 5/3/97)
House of Pain Video (ECW TV 5/3/97)
Raven + Stevie Promo (ECW TV 5/3/97)
ADD BACK: Genichiro Tenryu, Koki Kitahara & Jun Kikuchi vs. Abdullah the Butcher, Tarzan Goto & Ryo Miyake (Cage Match) (WAR 5/5/97)
Hart Foundation Interview (RAW 5/5/97)
Ken Shamrock feature (RAW 5/5/97)
Dustin & Terri Runnels Interview (RAW 5/5/97)
Shawn Michaels + Hart Foundation + Legion of Doom (RAW 5/5/97)
Backstage Brawl (RAW 5/5/97)
Steve Austin + Undertaker brawl (RAW 5/5/97)
Rey Misterio Jr vs. Syxx (Nitro 5/5/97)
Hulk Hogan Interview (Nitro 5/5/97)
NWO + WCW (Nitro 5/5/97)
Ricky Morton vs. Wolfie D (IWA-MS 5/8/97)
Shane Douglas vs. Balls Mahoney (Finish Only) (ECW 5/10/97)
Steve Austin Interview (Cold Day In Hell Pre Show 5/11/97)
Vader vs. Ken Shamrock (Cold Day In Hell 5/11/97)
Steve Austin vs. Undertaker (Finish Only) (Cold Day In Hell 5/11/97)
Hart Foundation Interview (RAW 5/12/97)
Steve Austin Interview (RAW 5/12/97)


DISC 11
Legion of Doom vs. PG-13 (RAW 5/12/97)
Goldust Interview (RAW 5/12/97)
Bret Hart + Shawn Michaels (RAW 5/12/97)
Randy Savage Promo (Nitro 5/12/97)
Ric Flair, Roddy Piper & Kevin Greene + NWO (Nitro 5/12/97)
Eric Bischoff + Sting (Nitro 5/12/97)
Hayabusa, Ricky Fuji & Ricky Morton vs. Mike Awesome, Hisakatsu Oya & Mr. Gannosuke (FMW 5/13/97)
Little Guido & Tracy Smothers vs. The Eliminators (ECW 5/13/97)
Tommy Dreamer vs. Louis Spicolli (Finish Only) (ECW TV 5/17/97)
Steven Regal vs. Ultimo Dragon (Slamboree 5/18/97)
Randy Savage + Diamond Dallas Page (Slamboree 5/18/97)
ADDED: Reggie White vs. Mongo McMichael (Finish Only) (Slamboree 5/18/97)
Ric Flair, Roddy Piper & Kevin Greene vs. Scott Hall, Kevin Nash & Syxx (Slamboree 5/18/97)
Shawn Michaels + Steve Austin (RAW 5/19/97)
Mankind Interview (RAW 5/19/97)
Jerry Lawler on RVD (RAW 5/19/97)
Bret Hart + Shawn Michaels (RAW 5/19/97)
Bret Hart + Shawn Michaels (RAW 5/19/97)
Sunny’s Super Soaker Commercial (RAW 5/19/97)
Undertaker + Paul Bearer (RAW 5/19/97)
Steve Austin + HBK (RAW 5/19/97)
Ric Flair + Syxx (Nitro 5/19/97)
Ric Flair vs. Syxx (Nitro 5/19/97)
Shinjiro Otani vs. Yoshihiro Tajiri (NJPW 5/20/97)
Koji Kanemoto vs. Tatsuhito Takaiwa (NJPW 5/20/97)
Dutch Mantel + Jerry Lawler (USWA 5/24/97)
Pulp Fiction (ECW TV 5/24/97)
Tommy Dreamer/Terry Funk vs. Raven/Stevie Richards (JIP) (ECW TV 5/24/97)
Atsushi Onita, W*ING Kanemura & Hido vs. Masato Tanaka, Tetsuhiro Kuroda & Koji Nakagawa (Barbed Wire Match) (FMW 5/25/97)


DISC 12
Jerry Lawler Interview / Jerry Lawler vs. Goldust (RAW 5/26/97)
Undertaker Promo (RAW 5/26/97)
Mankind Interview (RAW 5/26/97)
Owen Hart & Davey Boy Smith vs. Shawn Michaels & Steve Austin (RAW 5/26/97) USE DVD VERSION
Konnan Interview (Nitro 5/26/97)
La Parka, Damien & Ciclope vs. Hector Garza, Super Calo & Juventud Guerrera (Nitro 5/26/97)
Randy Savage promo (Nitro 5/26/97)
NWO Interview (Nitro 5/26/97)
Hulk Hogan + Sting (Nitro 5/26/97)
Kenta Kobashi & Johnny Ace vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (AJPW 5/27/97)
Jerry Lawler Interview (USWA 5/31/97)
Razor Promo (USWA 5/31/97)
Billy Travis + Brian Christopher (USWA 5/31/97)
Diesel Interview + Vince McMahon Promo / Diesel vs. Razor Ramon (USWA 5/31/97)
Dutch Mantel Promo (USWA 5/31/97)
Stevie Richards Promo / bWo Promo (ECW TV 5/31/97)
Sandman vs. Balls Mahoney (Finish Only) (ECW TV 5/31/97)
Jushin Liger vs. Koji Kanemoto (NJPW 6/1/97)
Hart Foundation + Shawn Michaels & Steve Austin (RAW 6/2/97)
Mankind Interview (RAW 6/2/97)
Sunny’s Super Soaker Commercial (RAW 6/2/97)
Mankind Interview (RAW 6/2/97)
Shawn Michaels & Steve Austin vs. Legion of Doom (RAW 6/2/97)
DDP Feature (Nitro 6/2/97)
Randy Savage Interview (Nitro 6/2/97)
Takashi Ishikawa & Kengo Kimura vs. Shoji Nakamaki & Takashi Okano vs. Yoshihiro Taijiri & Yuichi Taniguchi vs. Kendo Nagasaki & Satoru Shiga vs. Gedo & Jado (BJPW 6/3/97)
Koji Kanemoto vs. El Samurai (NJPW 6/5/97)
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada (AJPW 6/6/97)
El Hijo Del Santo, Scorpio Jr. & Dr. Wagner vs. ***** Casas, El Fiero & Ultimo Dragon (CMLL 6/6/97)
Jerry Lawler vs. Mr. Wrestling (USWA 6/7/97)
Billy Christopher + Billy Joe Travis (USWA 6/7/97)


DISC 13
Jerry Lawler vs. Mr. Wrestling (USWA 6/7/97)
Billy Christopher + Billy Joe Travis (USWA 6/7/97)
Diesel + Razor Ramon (USWA 6/7/97)
Tommy Dreamer Destroys Studio (USWA 6/7/97)
Raven vs. Tommy Dreamer / Sabu vs. Taz / Shane Douglas vs. Taz (Wrestlepalooza 6/7/97)
Dudley Boys vs. The Eliminators (Finish Only) (Wrestlepalooza 6/7/97)
Steve Austin + Brian Pillman (KOTR 6/8/97)
Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Mankind (Finish Only) (KOTR 6/8/97)
Bret Hart Interview (KOTR 6/8/97)
Shawn Michaels vs. Steve Austin (KOTR 6/8/97)
Hunter Hearst Helmsley + Mankind (RAW 6/9/97)
Steve Austin Interview (RAW 6/9/97)
ECW + Jerry Lawler (RAW 6/9/97)
Mankind Interview (RAW 6/9/97)
Brian Pillman vs. Mankind (RAW 6/9/97)
Juventud Guerrera, Super Calo & Ultimo Dragon vs. La Parka, Psicosis & Silver King (Nitro 6/9/97)
Lex Luger Interview (Nitro 6/9/97)
Hulk Hogan vs. Lex Luger (Nitro 6/9/97)
Ric Flair & Roddy Piper vs. Scott Hall & Kevin Nash (Finish Only) (Nitro 6/9/97)
El Hijo Del Santo, Scorpio Jr. & Dr. Wagner vs. ***** Casas, El Fiero & Ultimo Dragon (CMLL 6/13/97) OJ PICK
Arena Clips Recap (USWA 6/14/97)
Diesel Interview (USWA 6/14/97)
Jerry Lawler Interview + Jackie Fargo Phone Call /
Jerry Lawler & Brian Christopher Promo /
Jerry Lawler Interview (USWA 6/14/97)
Heavy Metal vs. Sange Chicana (Street Fight) (AAA 6/15/97)
Scott Hall & Kevin Nash vs. Ric Flair & Roddy Piper (Finish Only) (GAB 6/15/97)


DISC 14
Randy Savage vs. DDP (GAB 6/15/97)
Vince McMahon and Jim Ross Announcement / Steve Austin + Mankind + Ken Shamrock (RAW 6/16/97)
Brian Pillman Interview (RAW 6/16/97)
Steve Austin vs. Brian Pillman (JIP) (RAW 6/16/97)
Ahmed Johnson & Undertaker vs. Faarooq & Kama Mustafa (Finish Only) (RAW 6/16/97)
Hulk Hogan & Dennis Rodman Interview (Nitro 6/16/97)
Madusa Interview (Nitro 6/16/97)
Rey Misterio Jr vs. Syxx (Nitro 6/16/97)
Hulk Hogan & Dennis Rodman + Lex Luger & The Giant (Nitro 6/16/97)
Tomoko Watanabe & Kumiko Maekawa vs. Etsuko Mita & Mima Shimoda (AJW 6/18/97)
El Hijo Del Santo, Emilio Charles & Dr. Wagner vs. ***** Casas, Felino & Ultimo Dragon (CMLL 6/20/97)
PG-13 vs. Mikey Whipwreck & Spike Dudley (ECW Waltham, MA 6/20/97)
Dudley Boys vs. The Eliminators (Finish Only) (ECW Waltham, MA 6/20/97)
Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Nikolai Zouev (RINGS 6/21/97)
Billy Joe Travis shoot arrest (USWA 6/21/97)
Dutch Mantel Interview (USWA 6/21/97)
Jerry Lawler + Brian Christopher (USWA 6/21/97)
Tommy Dreamer promo (ECW TV 6/21/97)
Jerry Lawler promo (ECW TV 6/21/97)
Ahmed Johnson Interview (RAW 6/23/97)
Hart Foundation Interview (RAW 6/23/97)
Vader & Undertaker vs. Faarooq & D-Lo Brown (Finish Only) (RAW 6/23/97)
Ernest Miller Feature (Nitro 6/23/97)
NWO Feature (Nitro 6/23/97)
Diamond Dallas Page vs. Scott Hall (Finish Only) (Nitro 6/23/97)
Jerry Lawler & Brian Christopher Interview (USWA 6/28/97)
Billy Joe Travis Arrest & Recap + PG-13 Promo (USWA 6/28/97)
PJ Walker Interview (USWA 6/28/97)
Jerry Lawler promo (ECW TV 6/28/97)
Chris Jericho vs. Syxx (Saturday Nitro 6/28/97)
Sunny Photo Shoot Footage (RAW 6/30/97)
Undertaker promo (RAW 6/30/97)
Paul Bearer Interview (RAW 6/30/97)
Undertaker promo (RAW 6/30/97)
Hulk Hogan Interview (Nitro 6/30/97)
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Kevin Nash / Raven Interview (Nitro 6/30/97)


DISC 15
Scott Hall, Kevin Nash & Randy Savage vs. Lex Luger, The Giant & Diamond Dallas Page (Finish Only) (Nitro 6/30/97)
El Hijo del Santo vs. Felino (CMLL 7/4/97)
Genichiro Tenryu vs. Tarzan Goto (WAR 7/6/97)
Stampede Feature (Canadian Stampede 7/6/97)
Taka Michinoku vs. Great Sasuke (Canadian Stampede 7/6/97)
Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Davey Boy Smith, Jim Neidhart & Brian Pillman vs. Steve Austin, Ken Shamrock, Goldust & Road Warriors (Canadian Stampede 7/6/97)
Show opening / Hart Foundation + Steve Austin (RAW 7/7/97)
Taka Michinoku vs. Great Sasuke (RAW 7/7/97)
Paul Bearer Interview (RAW 7/7/97)
Steve Austin vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley / Steve Austin + Mankind (RAW 7/7/97)
Curt Hennig + Ric Flair (Nitro 7/7/97)
Randy Savage vs. "La Parka" (Nitro 7/7/97)
Raven & Stevie Richards Interview (Nitro 7/7/97)
Hulk Hogan & Eric Bischoff + Lex Luger & The Giant (Nitro 7/7/97)
The Sandman & Tommy Dreamer vs. Rob Van Dam & Sabu Recap (ECW TV 7/12/97)
Jerry Lawler Promo (ECW TV 7/12/97)
Taz Promo (ECW TV 7/12/97)
Beulah Promo (ECW TV 7/12/97)
Taz + RAW Is War Shirt (ECW TV 7/12/97)
Masato Tanaka, Tetsuhiro Kuroda & Koji Nakagawa vs. W*ING Kanemura, Hideki Hosaka & Hido (No Rope Barbed Wire Spider Net Death Match) (W*ING 7/13/97)
Glacier & Ernest Miller vs. Wrath & Mortis (BATB 7/13/97)
Raven Interview (BATB 7/13/97)
Juventud Guerrera, Hector Garza & Lizmark Jr vs. La Parka, Psicosis & Villano IV (BATB 7/13/97)
Chris Benoit vs. Kevin Sullivan (Finish Only) (BATB 7/13/97)
Hulk Hogan & Dennis Rodman Promo (BATB 7/13/97)
Randy Savage & Scott Hall vs. DDP & Curt Hennig (Finish Only) (BATB 7/13/97)


DISC 16
Hulk Hogan & Dennis Rodman vs. Lex Luger & The Giant (BATB 7/13/97)
Shawn Michaels Interview (RAW 7/14/97)
Steve Austin & Dude Love vs. Owen Hart & Davey Boy Smith (RAW 7/14/97)
World Premiere of the Nitro Girls (Nitro 7/14/97)
DDP + Randy Savage + La Parka (Nitro 7/14/97)
NWO Interview (Nitro 7/14/97)
Lex Luger & Sting + NWO (Nitro 7/14/97)
Toshie Uematsu vs. Yoshiko Tamura (GAEA 7/19/97)
PG-13 vs. Flash Flanagan & Steven Dunn (Arena Clip) + PG-13 Promo (USWA 7/19/97)
Shane Douglas & Francine Promo (ECW 7/19/97)
Pulp Fiction (ECW 7/19/97)
ADD BACK: Toshiyo Yamada vs. Kaoru (GAEA 7/21/97)
Genichiro Tenryu vs. Yoji Anjo (WAR 7/21/97)
Bracchus Vignette / Hart Foundation + Steve Austin (RAW 7/21/97)
Shawn Michaels Interview (RAW 7/21/97)
Bret Hart + Vince McMahon (RAW 7/21/97)
Paul Bearer Interview (RAW 7/21/97)
Shawn Michaels + Vince McMahon / Bret Hart, Owen Hart & Davey Boy Smith vs. Steve Austin, Undertaker & Dude Love (Flag Match) (RAW 7/21/97)
Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Bitsadze Tariel (RINGS 7/22/97)
Hulk Hogan Interview (Nitro 7/22/97)
Ric Flair + Syxx (Nitro 7/22/97)
JJ Dillon + Raven (Nitro 7/22/97)
Lex Luger + Hulk Hogan (Nitro 7/22/97)
Konnan + Rey Misterio Jr (WCW Tuesday Nitro 7/22/97
Ric Flair & Chris Benoit vs. Scott Hall & Kevin Nash (Nitro 7/22/97)
El Hijo del Santo vs. Felino (CMLL 7/25/97)


DISC 17
Steve Williams & Gary Albright vs. Kenta Kobashi & Johnny Ace (Finish Only) (AJPW 7/25/97)
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Akira Taue (AJPW 7/25/97)
Jerry Lawler + JC Ice (USWA 7/26/97)
Doug Gilbert Promo (USWA 7/26/97)
Gangstas vs. Dudley Boys (Cage Match) (Finish Only) (ECW TV 7/26/97)
Tommy Dreamer, the Sandman, & Rick Rude + Rob Van Dam, Sabu, & Jerry Lawler (Cage Match Part One) (ECW TV 7/26/97)
Hart Foundation Interview (RAW 7/28/97)
Bret Hart vs. The Patriot (Finish Only) (RAW 7/28/97)
Chris Jericho vs. Alex Wright (Nitro 7/28/97)
Ric Flair + Curt Hennig (Nitro 7/28/97)
Randy Savage vs. Scott Steiner (Finish Only) (Nitro 7/28/97)
Gedo & Jado vs. Yoshihiro Tajiri & Ryuji Yamakawa (BJPW 7/31/97)
Shinya Hashimoto vs. Kazuo Yamazaki (NJPW G-1 Climax 8/1/97) COMM
Kazuyuki Fujita vs. Don Frye (NJ 8/2/97)
Masato Tanaka vs. W*ING Kanemura (No Rope Explosive Electrified Barbed Wire Death Match) (FMW 8/2/97)
Rick Titan Interview (USWA 8/2/97)
JC Ice Promo (USWA 8/2/97)
Tommy Dreamer, the Sandman, & Rick Rude fought Rob Van Dam, Sabu, & Jerry Lawler (Continued) (ECW TV 8/2/97)
Rick Rude & Triple Threat promo (ECW TV 8/2/97)
Surge vs., Cham Pain (Omega 8/2/97)
Surge vs. Sweet Dreams (Finish Only) (Omega 8/2/97)
Reckless Youth vs. Devon Storm (Cage Match) (NWA 8/2/97)
Terry Funk vs. Shane Douglas (ECW 8/2/97)
Shinya Hashimoto vs. Hiroyoshi Tenzan (NJPW 8/3/97)
Kensuke Sasaki vs. Hiroyoshi Tenzan (Finish Only) (NJPW 8/3/97)
Mankind vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley Cage Match) (JIP) (SSlam 8/3/97)


DISC 18
Owen Hart vs. Steve Austin (SSlam 8/3/97)
Bret Hart vs. Undertaker (Finish Only) (SSlam 8/3/97)
Hart Foundation + Steve Austin (RAW 8/4/97)
Bracchus Vignette (RAW 8/4/97)
Shawn Michaels Interview (RAW 8/4/97)
Brian Pillman in a Dress (RAW 8/4/97)
Hulk Hogan Interview (Nitro 8/4/97)
Rick & Scott Steiner + Ted DiBiase + The Outsiders (Nitro 8/4/97)
Sting + JJ Dillon (Nitro 8/4/97)
Hulk Hogan vs. Lex Luger (Nitro 8/4/97)
Terry Funk vs. Sabu (ECW 8/8/97)
Manami Toyota vs. Kaoru Ito (AJW 8/9/97)
Aja Kong & Kyoko Inoue vs. Etsuko Mita & Mima Shimoda (AJW 8/9/97)
Dudleys Promo (ECW TV 8/9/97)
Taz Promo (ECW TV 8/9/97)
Terry Funk Promo (ECW TV 8/9/97)
Hulk Hogan vs. Lex Luger (Finish Only) (Road Wild 8/9/97)
Terry Funk vs. Sabu (Barbed Wire Match) (BTBW 8/9/97)
Shinya Hashimoto vs. Hiroyoshi Tenzan (NJPW 8/10/97)
Shawn Michaels + Sgt. Slaughter (RAW 8/11/97)


DISC 19
Dude Love + Shawn Michaels (RAW 8/11/97)
Bret Hart video (RAW 8/11/97)
Faarooq vs. Chainz (Finish Only) (RAW 8/11/97)
Mankind Promo (RAW 8/11/97)
Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind (RAW 8/11/97)
Wolfpac Promo (Nitro 8/11/97)
Sting + JJ Dillon (Nitro 8/11/97)
Masayuki Naruse vs. Christopher Haseman (RINGS 8/13/97)
Great Sasuke, Oriental, Tiger Mask IV & Norihiro Hoshikawa vs. Men's Teioh, Dick Togo, Hanzo Nakajima & Shoichi Funaki (Elimination Match) (M-Pro 8/17/97)
Jerry Lawler Promo (Hardcore Heaven 8/17/97)
PG-13 vs. Bubba Ray & D-Von Dudley (Hardcore Heaven 8/17/97)
Jerry Lawler vs. Tommy Dreamer (Hardcore Heaven 8/17/97)
Shane Douglas vs. Terry Funk vs. Sabu (Finish Only) (Hardcore Heaven 8/17/97)
Rick Rude Interview (RAW 8/18/97)
Nation of Domination Interview (RAW 8/18/97)
Bret Hart Interview (Finish Only) (RAW 8/18/97)
Steve Austin Interview (RAW 8/18/97)
Undertaker & Mankind vs. Shawn Michaels & Hunter Hearst Helmsley (RAW 8/18/97)
NWO Announcement (Nitro 8/18/97)
Jeff Jarrett & Eddy Guerrero vs. Steve McMichael & Chris Benoit (Nitro 8/18/97)
The Outsiders Promo (Nitro 8/18/97)
Sting + JJ Dillon (Nitro 8/18/97)
NWO Announcement (Nitro 8/18/97)
Lex Luger & Diamond Dallas Page vs. Scott Hall & Kevin Nash (Finish Only) (Nitro 8/18/97)
Manami Toyota vs. Aja Kong (AJW 8/20/97)
Kyoko Inoue vs. Yumiko Hotta (Finish Only) (AJW 8/20/97)
Etsuko Mita & Mima Shimoda vs. Tomoko Watanabe & Kumiko Maekawa (AJW 8/20/97) AJW TV 8/31/97


DISC 20
Heavy Metal vs. Sange Chicana (Street Fight) (AAA 8/20/97)
nWo Syxx T-Shirt Commercial (Clash 8/21/97)
Dinner & A Movie (Clash 8/21/97)
Lex Luger & Diamond Dallas Page vs. Scott Hall & Randy Savage (Finish Only) (Clash 8/21/97)
Brian Christopher + Billy Joe Travis Parking Lot Angle (USWA 8/23/97)
Doug Gilbert Interview (USWA 8/23/97)
Jerry Lawler Interview 1 (USWA 8/23/97)
Jerry Lawler Interview / Brian Christopher Angle (USWA 8/23/97)
Jenna Jameson Promo (ECW TV 8/23/97)
Tommy Dreamer promo (ECW TV 8/23/97)
Eric Bischoff + JJ Dillon + Sting (Nitro 8/25/97)
Raven promo (Nitro 8/25/97)
Slim Jim Commercial (Nitro 8/25/97)
Four Horsemen + Curt Hennig (Nitro 8/25/97)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Hiroshi Hase (AJPW 8/26/97)
Shawn Michaels Interview (Main Event 8/29/97)
Undertaker Interview (Main Event 8/29/97)
Truth Commission Interview (Main Event 8/29/97)
VTR: The Downfall of Billy Travis (USWA 8/30/97)
Billy Travis in the Parking Lot / Brian Christopher Interview (USWA 8/30/97)
Tommy Rich Interview / Dutch Mantel + Jerry Lawler (USWA 8/30/97)
Tommy Dreamer Interview + Jerry Lawler Interview (USWA 8/30/97)
Rick Rude Promo + Shane Douglas Promo (ECW TV 8/30/97)
Rob Van Dam vs. Tommy Dreamer (Finish Only) (ECW TV 8/30/97)
Shinya Hashimoto vs. Kensuke Sasaki (NJPW 8/31/97)
Great Sasuke vs. Dick Togo (M-Pro 8/31/97)
Daisuke Ikeda vs. Yuki Ishikawa (BattlARTS 9/1/97)
Arn Anderson Video (Nitro 9/1/97)
Nitro Party Hype / Sting + Hollywood Hogan Video (Nitro 9/1/97)
NWO Horsemen Parody (Nitro 9/1/97)
Hulk Hogan + JJ Dillon (Nitro 9/1/97)
Sgt. Slaughter Announcement (RAW Friday 9/5/97)
Steve Austin Interview (RAW Friday 9/5/97)
Goldust + Brian Pillman Feud Recap (RAW Friday 9/5/97)
Rick Rude Interview (RAW Friday 9/5/97)
Steve Austin Interview (RAW Friday 9/5/97)


DISC 21
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jun Akiyama (AJPW 9/6/97)
Billy Joe Travis + Brian Christopher (USWA 9/6/97)
Team ICON Interview (USWA 9/6/97)
Sabu vs. Tommy Dreamer (Finish Only) (ECW TV 9/6/97)
Sgt. Slaughter + Jim Ross (Ground Zero 9/7/97)
Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker (Ground Zero 9/7/97)
Sgt. Slaughter + Steve Austin (RAW 9/8/97)
XXX Files (RAW 9/8/97)
Undertaker + Shawn Michaels (RAW 9/8/97)
Goldust vs. Owen Hart (Finish Only) / XXX Files Part 2 (RAW 9/8/97)
Shawn Michaels & Hunter Hearst Helmsley + Davey Boy Smith (RAW 9/8/97)
Four Horsemen Interview (Nitro 9/8/97)
Eddy Guerrero vs. Rey Misterio Jr (Nitro 9/8/97)
NWO Interview (Nitro 9/8/97)
Hulk Hogan Interview (Nitro 9/8/97)
Roddy Piper Interview (Nitro 9/8/97)
Bret Hart vs. Terry Funk (Wrestlefest 9/11/97)
Paul E. Dangerously announcement (ECW TV 9/13/97)
Eddy Guerrero vs. Chris Jericho (Fall Brawl 9/14/97)
Ultimo Dragon vs. Alex Wright (Fall Brawl 9/14/97)
NWO attack Curt Hennig (Fall Brawl 9/14/97)
NWO Promo (Fall Brawl 9/14/97)
Four Horsemen Interview (Fall Brawl 9/14/97)
Lex Luger & Diamond Dallas Page vs. Scott Hall & Randy Savage (Finish Only) (Fall Brawl 9/14/97)


DISC 22
War Games (JIP) (Fall Brawl 9/14/97)
Steve Austin + Jerry Lawler (RAW 9/15/97)
Shawn Michaels Interview (RAW 9/15/97)
Ric Flair face shot + Tony Schiavone (Nitro 9/15/97)
NWO Interview (Nitro 9/15/97)
Curt Hennig vs. Steve McMichael (Finish Only) (Nitro 9/15/97)
El Hijo del Santo vs. ***** Casas (Hair Match) (CMLL 9/19/97)
Erin O'Grady vs. Michael Modest (APW 9/19/97)
RVD & Sabu Promo (ECW TV 9/20/97)
Tommy Dreamer vs. Taz (Finish Only) (ECW TV 9/20/97)
RVD & Bill Alfonso vs. Tommy Dreamer & Beulah McGillicutty (AGAIG 9/20/97)
Main Event Hype (One Night Only 9/20/97)
Vader vs. Owen Hart (One Night Only 9/20/97)
Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker (One Night Only 9/20/97)
Shawn Michaels vs. Davey Boy Smith (One Night Only 9/20/97)
Etsuko Mita & Mima Shimoda vs. Kaoru Ito & Tomoko Watanabe (Cage Match) (AJW 9/21/97)
The Nitro Girls (Nitro 9/22/97)
Goldberg vs. Hugh Morrus (Nitro 9/22/97)
Disco Inferno vs. Alex Wright (Finish Only) (Nitro 9/22/97)
NWO Announcement (Nitro 9/22/97)


DISC 23
Undertaker + Shawn Michaels (RAW 9/22/97)
Brian Pillman vs. Owen Hart (JIP) / Steve Austin + Vince McMahon (RAW 9/22/97)
Cactus Jack vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley (Street Fight) (RAW 9/22/97)
Shawn Michaels + Undertaker (RAW 9/22/97)
Scott Hall & Syxx Promo (Nitro 9/22/97)
Roddy Piper Interview (Nitro 9/22/97)
Hulk Hogan Interview (Nitro 9/22/97)
Jushin Liger, El Samurai & Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho, Koji Kanemoto & Dr. Wagner Jr. (NJPW 9/23/97)
Volk Han vs. Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 9/26/97)
New Jack & Kronus vs. Dudley Boys (ECW TV 9/27/97)
Hayabusa & Jinsei Shinzaki vs. Kenta Kobashi & Maunakea Mossman (FMW 9/28/97)
Masato Tanaka vs. The Gladiator (FMW 9/28/97)
Atsushi Onita vs. W*ING Kanemura (Exploding Cage Match) (Finish Only) (FMW 9/28/97)
DX + Hart Foundation (RAW 9/29/97)
Faarooq Feature (RAW 9/29/97)
Sable Lazer Tag Commercial / XXX Files (RAW 9/29/97)
Steve Austin + Vince McMahon (RAW 9/29/97)
Owen Hart Interview (RAW 9/29/97)
Undertaker vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley (RAW 9/29/97)
Rey Mysterio vs. El Caliente (Nitro 9/29/97)
Scott Hall & Syxx Promo (Nitro 9/29/97)
Ric Flair Phone Interview (Nitro 9/29/97)
Bracito de Oro, Cicloncito Ramirez & Mascarita Magica vs. Damiancito El Guerrero, El Fierito & Pierrothito (CMLL 10/3/97)
El Hijo Del Santo vs. Psicosis (Promo Azteca 10/3/97)
Sandman vs. Sabu (Finish Only) (ECW TV 10/4/97)


DISC 24
Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker (Hell In A Cell) (Badd Blood 10/5/97)
Brian Pillman Tribute (RAW 10/6/97)
DX + Hart Foundation (RAW 10/6/97)
Jim Cornette promo (RAW 10/6/97)
Steve Austin Interview (RAW 10/6/97)
Melanie Pillman Interview (RAW 10/6/97)
Bret Hart vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley (Finish Only) (RAW 10/6/97)
Brian Pillman condolence (Nitro 10/6/97)
Goldberg feature (Nitro 10/6/97)
Randy Savage + Diamond Dallas Page (Nitro 10/6/97)
Hulk Hogan + Roddy Piper (Nitro 10/6/97)
Luchadore Feature (Nitro 10/6/97)
Curt Hennig vs. Chris Benoit (Finish Only) /Ric Flair Promo (Nitro 10/6/97)
Dick Togo, Mens Teoh & Sho Funaki vs. Super Delphin, Naohiro Hoshikawa & Masato Yakushiji (M-Pro 10/10/97)
Taka Michinoku vs. Great Sasuke (M-Pro 10/10/97)
Nobuhiko Takada vs. Rickson Gracie (PRIDE 10/11/97)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Kenta Kobashi & Johnny Ace (AJPW 10/11/97)
Legion of Doom Video (RAW 10/13/97)
Hart Foundation + DX (RAW 10/13/97)
Owen Hart vs. Kama Mustafa (RAW 10/13/97)
Godwinns Promo (RAW 10/13/97)
Shawn Michaels vs. Flash Funk (RAW 10/13/97)
Steve Austin + Vince McMahon / Lazer Tag Commercial (RAW 10/13/97)
Jim Cornette promo (RAW 10/13/97)
Legion of Doom vs. Godwinns (JIP) (RAW 10/13/97)
Hulk Hogan & Randy Savage Interview (Nitro 10/13/97)
Lucha libre video (Nitro 10/13/97)
Raven Vignette (Nitro 10/13/97)
Scott Hall & Syxx vs. Rick & Scott Steiner (Finish Only) (Nitro 10/13/97)


DISC 25
DDP Vignette (Nitro 10/13/97)
Roddy Piper + NWO (Nitro 10/13/97)
Curt Hennig vs. DDP (Finish Only) (Nitro 10/13/97)
Pillman Tribute (ECW TV 10/18/97)
LL Cool J Music Video (ECW TV 10/18/97)
Bret Hart vs. Faarooq (RAW 10/20/97)
Jeff Jarrett Interview (RAW 10/20/97)
Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart (JIP) (RAW 10/20/97)
Jim Cornette promo (RAW 10/20/97)
Hulk Hogan & Randy Savage Interview (Nitro 10/20/97)
Eddy Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit (Nitro 10/20/97)
Raven vignette (Nitro 10/20/97)
Luchadore Feature (Nitro 10/20/97)
Hulk Hogan & Randy Savage + Diamond Dallas Page & Roddy Piper (Nitro 10/20/97)
Akira Taue vs. Johnny Ace (AJPW 10/21/97)
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Yoshihiro Takayama (AJPW 10/21/97)
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 10/21/97)
Lioness Asuka vs. Jaguar Yokota (Jd' 10/21/97)
Ian Rotten vs. Axl Rotten (King of the Death Match) (IWA- MS 10/21/97)
Barry Houston vs. Fit Finlay (WCWSN 10/25/97)
Shane Douglas + Rick Rude (ECW TV 10/25/97)
Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Shane Douglas (Finish Only) (ECW TV 10/25/97)
Eddy Guerrero vs. Rey Misterio Jr (Havoc 10/26/97)
Hulk Hogan & Eric Bischoff Promo (Havoc 10/26/97)
Randy Savage Promo (Havoc 10/26/97)
Ric Flair vs. Curt Hennig (Finish Only) (Havoc 10/26/97)
Lex Luger vs. Scott Hall (Finish Only) (Havoc 10/26/97)


DISC 26
Randy Savage vs. Diamond Dallas Page (Las Vegas Street Fight) (Havoc 10/26/97)
Hulk Hogan vs. Roddy Piper (JIP) (Cage Match) (Havoc 10/26/97)
Nation + DX + Hart Foundation (RAW 10/27/97)
Bret Hart Mad TV Promo (RAW 10/27/97)
Jim Cornette Promo (RAW 10/27/97)
Oklahoma Legends (RAW 10/27/97)
Bret Hart vs. Ken Shamrock (Finish Only) (RAW 10/27/97)
DX Interview (RAW 10/27/97)
Jeff Jarrett Interview (RAW 10/27/97)
Larry Zbyszko + Scott Hall (Nitro 10/27/97)
Chris Benoit vs. Fit Finlay (Nitro 10/27/97)
Hulk Hogan vs. Diamond Dallas Page (Nitro 10/27/97)
The Riot (Promo Azteca 10/29/97)
Mayumi Ozaki vs. Dynamite Kansai & Cutie Suzuki (JWP 10/30/97)
Jushin Liger, El Samurai & Kendo Ka Shin vs. Shinjiro Otani, Koji Kanemoto & Tatsuhito Takaiwa (NJPW 10/31/97)
New Jack & Kronus vs. FBI (ECW TV 11/1/97)
Mikey Whipwreck & Spike Dudley vs. Doug Furnas & Phil LaFon (ECW 11/1/97)
Great Sasuke & Super Delphin vs. Mens Teoh & Shoichi Funaki (M-Pro 11/2/97)
Goldust Interview (RAW 11/3/97)
Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels Feud Recap (RAW 11/3/97)
DX + Sgt. Slaughter (RAW 11/3/97)
Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock (Finish Only) (RAW 11/3/97)
Raven Vignette (Nitro 11/3/97)
Scott Hall vs. Chris Jericho (Finish Only) (Nitro 11/3/97)
Luchadore Feature (Nitro 11/3/97)
Press Conference: Hulk Hogan vs. Sting (Nitro 11/3/97)
Daisuke Ikeda vs. Alexander Otsuka (BattlARTS 11/5/97)
Rick Rude Interview (ECW TV 11/8/97)
Shane Douglas, Chris Candido & Bam Bam Bigelow Promos (ECW TV 11/8/97)
Great Sasuke & Super Delphin vs. Mens Teoh & Shoichi Funaki (M-Pro 11/9/97)


DISC 27
Wrestling With Shadows (SSeries 11/9/97)
Owen Hart vs. Steve Austin (Finish Only) (SSeries 11/9/97)
Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels (SSeries 11/9/97)
Wrestling With Shadows (SSeries 11/9/97)
DX + Ken Shamrock (RAW 11/10/97)
Goldust Interview (RAW 11/10/97)
Stone Cold + The Rock (RAW 11/10/97)
Jeff Jarrett Interview (RAW 11/10/97)
Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Ken Shamrock (Finish Only) (RAW 11/10/97)
NWO Interview (Nitro 11/10/97)
Video Game Commercial (Nitro 11/10/97)
Hulk Hogan Interview (Nitro 11/10/97)
Hulk Hogan + Sting (Nitro 11/10/97)
Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Kenta Kobashi & Johnny Ace (AJPW 11/15/97)
Rick Rude Promo (ECW TV 11/15/97)
Rob Van Dam & Sabu vs. Tommy Dreamer & Taz (Finish Only) (ECW TV 11/15/97)
Karate Fighters Commercial (RAW 11/17/97)
WWF Attitude Commercial (RAW 11/17/97)
Jakks Action Figure Commercial (RAW 11/17/97)
Stone Cold Commercial (RAW 11/17/97)
Why Bret Why? (RAW 11/17/97) x2
Goldust + Vader (RAW 11/17/97)
NWO + Rick Rude (Nitro 11/17/97)
NWO + Ray Traylor (Nitro 11/17/97)
NWO + Larry Zbyszko (Nitro 11/17/97)
Scott Hall vs. The Giant (Finish Only) (Nitro 11/17/97)
Tsuyoshi Kohsaka vs. Mikhail Ilioukhine (RINGS 11/20/97)
Sandman Returns (ECW TV 11/22/97)
Pulp Fiction (ECW TV 11/22/97)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Hayabusa & Jinsei Shinzaki (AJPW 11/23/97)
60-man Battle Royal (Finish Only) (WCW World War 3 11/23/97)


DISC 28
Dean Malenko vs. Norman Smiley (WWW 11/23/97)
Genichiro Tenryu vs. Yoshiaki Fujiwara (WAR 11/24/97)
DX Interview (RAW 11/24/97)
Legion of Doom vs. New Age Outlaws (Finish Only) (RAW 11/24/97)
Goldust Interview (RAW 11/24/97)
DX + "Bret Hart" + Jim Neidhart (RAW 11/24/97)
Steve Austin + Rock (RAW 11/24/97)
Shawn Michaels vs. Vader (RAW 11/24/97)
Larry Zbyszko + Eric Bischoff (Nitro 11/24/97)
Nitro Party (Nitro 11/24/97)
Hulk Hogan vs. The Giant (Nitro 11/24/97)
Wolfie D vs. Trailer Park Trash (Music City 11/97)
Wolfie D vs. Flash Flanagan (Ladder Match) (Music City 11/24/97)
Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Hayabusa & Jinsei Shinzaki (AJPW 11/27/97)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Kenta Kobashi & Johnny Ace (AJPW 11/27/97)
Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (AJPW 11/28/97)
Hayabusa & Masato Tanaka vs. Mr. Gannosuke & W*ING Kanemura (FMW 11/28/97)
Rey Misterio Jr vs. El Dandy (WCWSN 11/29/97)
November Rain Video (ECW TV 11/29/97)
Mayumi Ozaki & Sugar Sato vs. KAORU & Toshiyo Yamada (GAEA 11/30/97)
Rob Van Dam vs. Tommy Dreamer (JIP) (N2R 11/30/97)
Shane Douglas vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (Finish Only) (N2R 11/30/97)
Goldust + Luna Vachon (RAW 12/1/97)
Karate Fighters Commercial (RAW 12/1/97)
DX Interview (RAW 12/1/97)
Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Jim Neidhart (Finish Only) (RAW 12/1/97)
Hulk Hogan Interview (Nitro 12/1/97)
Curt Hennig vs. Diamond Dallas Page (Finish Only) (Nitro 12/1/97)


DISC 29
Kazushi Sakuraba vs. Hiromitsu Kanehara (Kingdom 12/2/97)
Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (AJPW RWTL Finals 12/5/97)
Atlantis vs. Blue Panther (CMLL 12/5/97)
Stevie Richards Promo (ECW TV 12/6/97)
Goldust + Luna (D-X 12/7/97)
Steve Austin vs. The Rock (D-X 12/7/97)
Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock (Finish Only) (D-X 12/7/97)
Kazushi Sakuraba vs. Hiromitsu Kanehara (Kingdom 12/8/97)
Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs. Koji Kanemoto & Tatsuhito Takaiwa (NJPW 12/8/97)
Steve Austin + Vince McMahon (RAW 12/8/97)
Karate Fighters Commercial (RAW 12/8/97)
DX Strip Poker (RAW 12/8/97)
Marc Mero + Sable (RAW 12/8/97)
Steve Austin vs. The Rock (RAW 12/8/97)
Kevin Nash Promo / The Giant Interview (Nitro 12/8/97)
Ric Flair Interview (Nitro 12/8/97)
Scott Hall vs. DDP (Finish Only) (Nitro 12/8/97)
Extreme Wear Commercial (ECW TV 12/13/97)
Al Snow Promo (ECW TV 12/13/97)
WWF The Music Vol 2 Commercial (RAW 12/15/97)
Steve Austin + The Rock (RAW 12/15/97)
Vince McMahon + Owen Hart / Stone Cold Truck Sweepstakes (RAW 12/15/97)
Steve Austin + The Rock (RAW 12/15/97)
Vince McMahon Attitude Era Announcement (RAW 12/15/97)
Shawn Michaels & Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Legion of Doom (Finish Only) (RAW 12/15/97)
Rey Misterio Jr & Juventud Guerrera vs. La Parka & Psicosis (Nitro 12/15/97)
Eric Bischoff + Bret Hart (Nitro 12/15/97)
Taka Michinoku vs. Shoichi Funaki (M-Pro 12/18/97)
Steven Regal vs. Fit Finlay (Main Event 12/20/97)
Pulp Fiction (ECW TV 12/20/97)


DISC 30
War Games (FMW 12/22/97)
DX Interview (RAW 12/22/97)
Foley + New Age Outlaws Feud Recap (RAW 12/22/97)
Steve Austin + Santa Claus (RAW 12/22/97)
Mankind + New Age Outlaws / Goldust + Santa Claus (RAW 12/22/97)
Shawn Michaels vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley (RAW 12/22/97)
NWO Nitro Take Over! (Nitro 12/22/97)
Hulk Hogan + Sting + Bret Hart (Nitro 12/22/97)
Akira Maeda vs. Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 12/23/97)
Wolfie D vs. Flash Flanagan (Texas Death Match) (Music City 12/25/97)
Scott Hall + The Giant (Starrcade 12/28/97)
Curt Hennig vs. DDP (Finish Only) (Starrcade 12/28/97)
Eric Bischoff vs. Larry Zbyszko (Starrcade 12/28/97)
Hulk Hogan vs. Sting (Starrcade 12/28/97)
Crapper 3:16 (RAW 12/29/97)
DX Interview (RAW 12/29/97)
The Rock promo (RAW 12/29/97)
Thank You From Vince McMahon (RAW 12/29/97)
Cactus Jack & Chainsaw Charlie + New Age Outlaws (RAW 12/29/97)
Jim Cornette rant (RAW 12/29/97)
Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart (RAW 12/29/97)
Bret Hart Interview (Nitro 12/29/97)
Ric Flair Interview (Nitro 12/29/97)
Curt Hennig vs. Chris Jericho (Finish Only) (Nitro 12/29/97)
Hulk Hogan vs. Sting (Nitro 12/29/97)



:mark:

There is one Undertaker/HHH match on there from Feb (Shotgun) that sounds very different and i've never heard/seen it before.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't recall very well, although it's Austin in 2002. I don't think he had anything remotely worth seeing that entire year. Or at least from WM - his departure it was all utter shit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Is that Undertaker/HHH match the one where he Tombstones HHH on an escalator?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

iirc its solid, I think its during the original DX era, I never knew Hart/Austin had mutiple Raw matches ? Thought it was just that ambulance one + PPVS + South Africa


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's the one, Cal.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Wasn't that Trips/H match from the train station? If so, then it does have the Tombstone at the top of the escalator.

I'm watching the Trips/Jericho Wrestlemania Rewind. Of course the match is shit, but the little doc part is cool. Most of it we've seen on his full docs, but there are some added things that are cool. Might sit through the match. Might.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Austin did have a fun Handicap match vs Flair and Show on Judgment Day 02 for your interest.



Helmsley said:


> Wasn't that *Trips/H match* from the train station? If so, then it does have the Tombstone at the top of the escalator.
> 
> I'm watching the Trips/Jericho Wrestlemania Rewind. Of course the match is shit, but the little doc part is cool. Most of it we've seen on his full docs, but there are some added things that are cool. Might sit through the match. Might.


Wow, HHH is so good he can wrestle himself in a train station. :HHH2


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

THE FUCKING GAME :hunter


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE GAME AND HOW YOU PLAY IT :HHH2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Is that Undertaker/HHH match the one where he Tombstones HHH on an escalator?


Yeah, sounds like alot of fun TBH.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm about to sit through and watch HBK/Cena Raw 2007 for the first time in years. I recently read a write up from someone and they really did a hell of a job making that match seem like an all time classic, so it has peaked my interest again. It runs around 45 minutes without commercials. I remember the beginning being a lot of headlocks and what not but the last 20 minutes or so being absolutely epic. My rating on last watch was ****1/4, let's see if it goes up or down. I

What's everyone in here's thoughts on it? I know a lot of people outside this thread think it's a top 5 Raw match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm about to sit through and watch HBK/Cena Raw 2007 for the first time in years. I recently read a write up from* someone and they really did a hell of a job making that match seem like an all time classic,* so it has peaked my interest again. It runs around 45 minutes without commercials. I remember the beginning being a lot of headlocks and what not but the last 20 minutes or so being absolutely epic. My rating on last watch was ****1/4, let's see if it goes up or down. I
> 
> What's everyone in here's thoughts on it? I know a lot of people outside this thread think it's a top 5 Raw match.


it was Yeah1993 from a day ago


Yea pretty much agree on the sentiment although I think/thought (will need to rewatch) the mania match was better. I also thought Shawn carried most of the Raw match, yea Cena's selling was top notch but though ole Heartbreak showed he still had ole heartbreak in him. The pacing in that match is flawless though better than most/all iron mans outside of steamboat/rude


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

:hbk2 :cena3 in London is the shit. Match they SHOULD of had at Mania but oh well. Agreed top 5 Raw match for sure. I might put :cena4 unk4 last Feb #1 there. 

Rock v Hogan was good but not MOTY IMHO. Atmosphere helped the match lets be honest. Not that this is a bad thing. That crowd went ape shit. 

Brock vs Taker Hell in a Cell :mark: 
First Elimination Chamber
Pegasus vs :angle2 Unforgiven 
Pegasus vs Eddie Armageddon 
RVD vs Pegasus Summerslam 
Brock vs Rock
HBK vs HHH (Summerslam)
:angle2 vs Rey (Summerslam)
HHH vs Jericho Hell in a Cell 
Edge vs :angle2 (Hair match...forget what PPV....thought they had good chemistry)
Rock vs Jericho (Royal Rumble....again really good chemistry there)

all better IMHO off the top of my head


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

NAITCH said:


> it was Yeah1993 from a day ago
> 
> 
> Yea pretty much agree on the sentiment although I think/thought (will need to rewatch) the mania match was better. I also thought Shawn carried most of the Raw match, yea Cena's selling was top notch but though ole Heartbreak showed he still had ole heartbreak in him. The pacing in that match is flawless though better than most/all iron mans outside of steamboat/rude


Really? I don't think its an all time classic. :lol I also said basically the opposite that Cena was 90% of the match, but it doesn't look like you were quoting me there.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nah, I said I DISAGREE with you on that part, as I thought Michaels was 90 % of the match. Reasons I thought it was you as he said he read a review recently and I remember me you and someone were sharing our thoughts on michaels/cena matches


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Thread hit 500 pages!! Funny Faces was gonna bring a cake....I read it on a dirt sheet :curry2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I recall digging Cena's work more than Shawn's in both matches, but not like that's a slight. Love both matches a great deal.

Does anyone know if the Cena vs Shawn match in England actually was taped to go near sixty minutes? b/c I've always had my doubts about it being fact. Nothing more than kayfabe hype to fit the status of commercials, b/c once you time it from what is shown, it is 37:53. Taped broadcast meant all the breaks didn't have three minutes of actual action in-between & I refuse to believe the company would actually cut twenty minutes from a match for the hell of it. And then release it on DVD not showing all that material, IE Brock vs Angle Ironman, which openly went sixty minutes.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

They claimed it went 61 or 63 or something. Seems unlikely though, yeah. Anyone know what the TV time of Lesnar/Angle was before the full one was released? If that had 20 minutes of match during commercial it'd be easier to believe Cena/Michaels did too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> They claimed it went 61 or 63 or something. Seems unlikely though, yeah. Anyone know what the TV time of Lesnar/Angle was before the full one was released? If that had 20 minutes of match during commercial it'd be easier to believe Cena/Michaels did too.


I'm sure the cut version went around 52 minutes. There is a video on YT that is that length anyways, so I presume that's the one with commercials.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ Not 52 minutes because the youtube version includes entrances and about a minute of the aftermath.

From memory, the commercial free version had 3 minutes of action during the commercial breaks and I think there was 4 of them. So that means 48 minutes was televised.


----------



## Foreshadowed (Oct 4, 2006)

I haven't posted here in GOD KNOWS HOW LONG and I'm very, very drunk but I've been watching a lot of the first disc of my Blu-Ray copy of The Ultimate Warrior's new DVD. Just finished watching Hogan/Warrior from WrestleMania VI, it's so strange watching a match that I admired as a kid and to see it now at 26 years of age is so surreal. The atmosphere, the storytelling, the once in a lifetime opportunity to see two of the biggest stars at the time go at it for the two top titles; the WWF Championship and the Intercontinental Championship, it was a big deal at the time. Both men were not the greatest workers but here they put on a great match, back and fourth action that got the crowd going throughout and had a fantastic finish.

Overall rating: ****


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

NAITCH said:


> it was Yeah1993 from a day ago
> 
> 
> Yea pretty much agree on the sentiment although I think/thought (will need to rewatch) the mania match was better. I also thought Shawn carried most of the Raw match, yea Cena's selling was top notch but though ole Heartbreak showed he still had ole heartbreak in him. The pacing in that match is flawless though better than most/all iron mans outside of steamboat/rude



Yeah was reviewing the WrestleMania match I thought? I thought I read it on BleacherReport or something. That would be really bad if it was only a day ago...Kids, don't do drugs when your young. It will cost you precious brain cells that you shan't ever recover.

Just finished it. I'm now firmly in the Raw>WM camp for the 2 Cena/Michaels matches in 2007. Make no mistake about it, this was your classic "OMG SHAWN MICHAELS EPIC~" match that causes me to roll my eyes at times. The big difference with this one was, this match was done RIGHT. Everything just felt so organic, they "big ness" for lack of a better word was a result of the action in the ring and caliber of the wrestlers involved. It wasn't forced like Shawn was want to do during his second run at times. I'm also in the camp that Shawn is what made this match special. I wouldn't go so far as to say it was 90% him, but I think 75% Shawn, 15% Cena, and 10% JR's commentary is a fair breakdown for credit. Cena wasn't bad, he was really good, definitely held his own, but Michaels was just on another level of awesome. The headlocks in the beginning worked, because both guys went into the match a but tentative storyline wise. Michaels knew Cena could beat him, and Cena knew all it would take is a split second lapse in concentration for HBK to connect with SCM. So both guys were sorta feeling each other out again and trying to keep the other close. Loved Cena repeatedly going for the STF, as he knew that he had beaten Michaels with it before. After about 10 minutes or so, the gloves come off and Cena decks Michaels after Shawn slapped him in the face. From there the story is built, layer upon layer, with Shawn's back being a target at times and Shawn repeatedly out maneuvering Cena in all the big spots. A backdrop counter from a pile driver on the stairs gives Cena control for a moment, but Shawn again manages to gain the upper hand with his veteran guile. The last 10 minutes or so are just wrestling heaven. Then end finally comes for Cena when Shawn catches him with SCM and just collapses on him from exhaustion for the 1-2-3.

This was epic fellas. The time just flies by. I think I clocked the match at just under 40 minutes bell to bell not counting the time for commercial breaks. To throw a rating at it, I think ****1/2 sounds just about right, in my personal top 5 for Raw matches.

I've read somewhere that there was supposed to be an Edge/Orton match that was to go on after Shawn and Cena, but an audible was called mid match, either by Vince or the guys in the ring, and that's why this match went around 50+ minutes on live TV. I have no idea if there is any truth to that, as I can't imagine Vince allowing guys to just go over by that much without his permission. And I can't imagine Vince just deciding mid match to give Shawn and Cena 15-20 extra minutes, cause that could have thrown the whole match off.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I've always preferred the Raw match to WM23. Can't say I agree about it being 75% Michaels though. Haven't watched it in years and my memory of it is pretty non-existent in terms of details but I remember thinking Cena was the better guy in it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> They claimed it went 61 or 63 or something. Seems unlikely though, yeah. Anyone know what the TV time of Lesnar/Angle was before the full one was released? If that had 20 minutes of match during commercial it'd be easier to believe Cena/Michaels did too.


Cena vs Michaels is billed at 55:49 w/commercials. 37:53 shown --> 17:56 was "removed" by their stance.

Winged it atm w/the Iron Man w/commercials: 45:11 shown. Meaning the 14:49 was added when the uncut version was released. Still doubt that's the case w/Cena vs Shawn though. The England show was taped in advance and it's not uncommon for kayfabe to go along w/the commercial break for a match that did nearly reach 40 minutes when it was shown. It probably went nearly 45 minutes more than anything, tops. _(b/c cutting about 5-6 minutes is what I was assuming anyways)_ Which is still a feat.

_*looks it up*_ Apparently the RAW in England is claiming to be "live", but again, don't buy it. Could have been taped earlier that day then aired later for everywhere else. But I still have my reservations about it not quite being the full time. I'd love an answer on the subject before I go *The Number 23* on it some more. _(movie sucks, but it's an appropriate fixation reference)_


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Raw was taped in 23/4/2007 unsurprisingly because when it airs in USA, it's around 1-2 AM here in Europe.

Here's a thread from that day that has posted the show in spoiler form:
http://caws.ws/forum/topic/99289-raw-taping-results-from-england-042307/


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Don't forget that Rock/Hogan took place in the same year as Benoit/Angle at Unforgiven 2002. Legit MOTYC :side:


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Ever notice the roles reversal between the Mania and RAW Match? = Shawn playing the heel at WM23 and Cena rather playing the heel in their RAW match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

What is everyone's fave DVD from highspots? Love the Foley in ECW and Japan sets and the Hart family in Japan set. I have a list of like 10 more I want at some point. Wish they had Savage matches on the Memphis ones but then I'd be broke and buy them all. Uugh.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Did anyone catch NXT from this week yet? Dallas/Kidd or Neville/Clay any good? I was disappointed by looking at how much time each one got.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BEST THING ON HIGH SPOTS

even though I still haven't gotten it yet b/c Seabs has one that's larger & that's where my money needs to go. Someday.

----------

Corey: Dallas tried w/Kidd, but Kidd sucked out all the good and the match isn't worth seeing. Clay vs Neville was solid, although their first match was better of the two. Still, it's fun & has a good believable near fall towards the end. I'd watch it. Sasha vs Bayley was a solid sprint on the show too w/a super slick finish.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only DVD's I have from Highspots are shoots I does believe. That 4 disc 8 hour Flair shoot or however long it is is :mark:.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

REAL BEST THING ON HIGHSPOTS



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Yeah was reviewing the WrestleMania match I thought? I thought I read it on BleacherReport or something.


Both. http://www.wrestlingforum.com/33671537-post4801.html


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> REAL BEST THING ON HIGHSPOTS


:clap


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> REAL BEST THING ON HIGHSPOTS


I still have that Henry toy. Don't have the Vader anymore b/c his head fell off one day I Mankind piledriver him one too many times.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Made this thread in the Other Wrestling section. I think a lot of you guys can make good contributions to it. Thanks.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Jericho vs Austin in a Steel Cage :mark: :mark:

Hope that match is good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It isn't.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Watching every episode I've been missing out on The :jbl & COLESMILEY Show W/:renee made me remember about... YOSHI TATSU.

God, didn't even remember he existed. Didn't he have some Toy On A Pole match vs. Tyson Kidd on NXT that people praised the fuck of?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> It isn't.


Sucks :side:.

Does he have any decent matches as Undisputed Champ at all?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I dunno about praising it, but the necklace on a pole match was something else. Best part was the fans actually were quite hot for it. Hot for Yoshi Tatsu vs Tyson Kidd in 2011 wrestling over a toy leg hanging from a necklace.

Yeah; Jericho vs Rock from Royal Rumble is terrific. The Austin vs Jericho match combo was one that simply never meshed, tbhayley.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Was it really that good? Yeah, it is Tatsu/Kidd and on paper that sounds quite nice, but still, a Necklace Toy Leg On A Pole match? Sounds like something Vince Russo would come up with, if by the (Whatever) On A Pole match indication alone.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

NXT Redemption-Mid 2012 (when FCW closed and NXT became the developmental show) was fantastic. Just 45 minutes of entertainment that struggled to be beaten every week by Raw/SD/Superstars/TNA/ROH


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, NXT Full Sail has been awesome since day #1. Even though it's unlikely that Cesaro/Zayn 2/3 falls will ever be beat when it comes to matches, you can see it's still a great show.

Speaking of awesome since day #1, I decided to compile a Top 10 of SHIELD 6-man Tags only (not counting 2-on-2's or stuff like that, just 3-on-3) according to my star ratingz, and these were the results:

1) vs. Hell No & Ryback, TLC 2012, ****3/4
2) vs. Wyatt Family, Elimination Chamber 2014, ****1/2
3) vs. Hell No & Kofi, Raw 5/20/2013, ****1/4
4) vs. Wyatt Family, Main Event 4/18/2014, ****
5) vs. Hell No & Taker, Raw 4/22/2013, ****
6) vs. Cena, Sheamus & Ryback, Elimination Chamber 2013, ****
7) vs. Hell No & Orton, Smackdown 6/14/2013, ****
8) vs. Wyatt Family, Raw 3/3/2014, ****
9) vs. Hell No & Cena, Raw 4/29/2013, ***3/4
10) vs. Hell No & Orton, Raw 6/3/2014, ***3/4

And that's just on the 3-on-3 stuff.

Now I'm starting to be anxious for :ambrose2 :rollins :reigns vs. :trips rton2 :batista2.

EDIT: Got one of the dates wrong


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I've watched a few DDP matches this weekend, seeing that I was never really interested in his matches, I was surprised to realise what a good worker he really was. I've seen:

Eddie/DDP- Starrcade 96- ***1/4
DDP/Savage- Spring Stampede ***1/2
Benoit/DDP- Superbrawl ****1/4
Goldberg/DDP Nitro- ***1/2

Any other good matches from him that I should check out?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> I've watched a few DDP matches this weekend, seeing that I was never really interested in his matches, I was surprised to realise what a good worker he really was. I've seen:
> 
> Eddie/DDP- Starrcade 96- ***1/4
> DDP/Savage- Spring Stampede ***1/2
> ...


DDP/Sting (Nitro April 1999). One of THE best Nitro matches.

Plus the Goldberg Halloween Havoc 1998 match of course.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> I've watched a few DDP matches this weekend, seeing that I was never really interested in his matches, I was surprised to realise what a good worker he really was. I've seen:
> 
> Eddie/DDP- Starrcade 96- ***1/4
> DDP/Savage- Spring Stampede ***1/2
> ...



Dude the EXACT same thing happened to me a few weeks ago. I'd only ever seen like 1-2 DDP matches and never really thought to check out any others. After I watched all the ones you listed plus a few more, I came to the same conclusion. DDP was one hell of a good worker.

Also, check out his match with Savage at GAB 1997 and vs Goldberg at HH 98'. And DEFINITELY check out his Nitro match in 1999 vs Sting. Oh, and Spring Stampede 1997 vs Raven is pretty good as well. The Benoit match at SuperBrawl is my favorite I think.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hey, I need some catching up so for those who have kept up with all of NXT this year, what's the ***1/2+ stuff outside of Graves/Zayn 4/3 (and Arrival stuff, obviously ) ?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

There is the DDP/Raven/Benoit three way at Uncensored 1998 too.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Quite liked that Jericho/Austin Steel Cage match actually.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Very good Raw main event, debut of Rude back in the WWF too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ha, was just thinking about looking that match up yesterday after watching the Foley doc and wondering how the TV match was compared to the PPV match.

Wait... is that the one I was thinking of? Did they have one in 96 after MG? I'm young and confused.

Also... THE FUCK? EMBEDDED VIDEOS ARE WORKING AGAIN!! YEY!!!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Still waiting for the whole NXT thing I asked. 

Regardless, found another bliss of a Tag match for 2014. If you haven't, you (and everybody) should watch *Rhodes Bros/Real Americans from Main Event 3/18*. Very good stuff, I just watched it and it's easily ***1/2 for it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

That Michaels/Mankind raw match is Awesome, isnt it around DX was formed iirc


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Watched HHH/Orton LMS and I kinda loved it. ****1/4 or so


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just watched ER 2013, Hopefully this years will be a bit better 

Jericho/Fandango: **
Kofi/Ambrose: **1/2 
Sheamus/Henry: *** 
Swagger/ADR: * 
Hell no/Shield: ***1/4 
Show/Orton: ***1/2 
Ryback/Cena:**3/4 
Lesnar/HHH: ***3/4 

Decent enough show, Orton/Show was actually really good which was a fucking shock, remember it being pretty shitty tbh. The rest was expected, the I quit match sucked HARD, and had the WOAT ending, but an average show that had a fun main event.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

ATF said:


> Still waiting for the whole NXT thing I asked.
> 
> Regardless, found another bliss of a Tag match for 2014. If you haven't, you (and everybody) should watch *Rhodes Bros/Real Americans from Main Event 3/18*. Very good stuff, I just watched it and it's easily ***1/2 for it.


Kruger vs. Zayn 2/3 Falls, there's 2 sweet Neville/Breeze matches IIRC and a good Neville/Graves match. That's the best of this year (that you hadn't mentioned) but I don't think I'd give any of them *** 1/2. Oh, also watch Nevile/Clay I from two weeks ago, and Bo/Gabriel from not too long ago. Still not *** 1/2 but some of the best the show has produced.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Just watched ER 2013, Hopefully this years will be a bit better
> 
> *Sheamus/Henry: *** *
> .


:kobe


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Just a heads up, the Network has now added COTC II, looks like they may be adding one a day until they are all up :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally watched Monday's Raw too today. that Ric Flair segment. :lol It was the way he turned up, cut a pointless promo, then all of a sudden left the ring, just like that. I was like "Oh, seeya then Ric".


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

SaviorBeeRad™;33750105 said:


> Watched HHH/Orton LMS and I kinda loved it. ****1/4 or so


Which one? I thought the main event at No Mercy and the match they had on commercial free a couple years later were both really good. The No Mercy match might be Hunter's best babyface performance of his career. The One Night Stand encounter was going good before it had to be cut short due to Orton's injury. They have good chemistry with the Last Man Standing gimmick that's for sure.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Clique said:


> Which one? I thought the main event at No Mercy and the match they had on commercial free a couple years later were both really good. The No Mercy match might be Hunter's best babyface performance of his career.


I was talking No Mercy


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Witnessed that main event live. Great stuff indeed. JR's call of that match was outstanding too.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Had Orton/HHH NM07 LMS at ***3/4-****. Off the top of my head, would agree with it being HHH's best baby face performance.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Had Orton/HHH NM07 LMS at ***3/4-****. Off the top of my head, would agree with it being HHH's best baby face performance.




I was never a big fan of that one for some reason. I attended NM 07, god what a fucked up PPV. Start off with a segment by giving Orton the title, then HHH wins it, defends it against Umaga, then loses to Orton. And they just add random filler shit. I'm pretty sure Kane and Taker were supposed to tag this night right? Against MVP and someone else and it just never happened. 

I was legit mad Cena got hurt, Cena/Orton LMS would have fucking RULED in 07, atmosphere would have been great.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I keep forgetting that Extreme Rules is on tonight. But really excited to see EVOLUTION in action! :mark: I guess the unenthusiasm is expected since it's following WM when things cool down plus football season is about to climax.

On a random note, I found out that I annoyed Cal so much over a year ago to the point he ignore listed me. :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I too kinda enjoyed Orton/Show at Extreme Rules. As big of an insult as the Survivor Series 2013 match was between them, Orton and Show had a couple of good matches. I faintly remember a really good one on Main Event in 2012. HHH/Lesnar did not hold up at all. Little to nothing in that match made sense. Only good thing that it brought us was "That's my manager" :brock


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I keep forgetting that Extreme Rules is on tonight. But really excited to see EVOLUTION in action! :mark: I guess the unenthusiasm is expected since it's following WM when things cool down plus football season is about to climax.
> 
> On a random note, I found out that I annoyed Cal so much over a year ago to the point he ignore listed me. :lmao



Football season doesn't start until September 

The NBA playoffs are where it's at though:yum:

I dug Trips/Orton LMS NM 2007, easily the best match they ever had IMO. And yes it's gotta be he best baby face performance of Hunters career. Either that or the Street Fight with Umaga. 

I'm really interested to see this Evolution/Shield match up, but damn they missed a big opportunity. This definitely should have been a "Street Fight" with everyone showing up in jeans and weapons. Would have been SICK, and fit the PPV gimmick perfectly. Also would have helped hide Batista's deficiencies and added another layer of toughness to the Shield.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I feel like they will make the Shield/Evolution match FCA or a street fight on the preshow but Idk.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm thinking Bryan/Kane will be MOTN. Kanes usually pretty good in extreme rules matches and Bryan is... well Bryan. Shield/Evolution will be awesome too. Wonder how Cena/Bray will work in the cage.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm clearly talking about the REAL football and not that handegg bullshit. 

Evolution/Shield may still become a tornado tag during the PPV but even if they work a standard tag, I see no reason why it wouldn't work. Shield/Wyatts and Shield/SuperFriends from EC 14 and 13 were both using no gimmicks and ended up being classics. HHH showed at WM that he works at his best as a heel, Orton is super whenever he turns up in A form and Batista works well in tag matches where he doesn't spend as much time in the ring plus his conditioning has improved tremendously compared to the Royal Rumble when he looked like he was gonna pass out after just one minute. I got big hopes for this match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Football season doesn't start until September


Ok Yank, soccer.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I'm clearly talking about the REAL football and not that handegg bullshit.
> 
> Evolution/Shield may still become a tornado tag during the PPV but even if they work a standard tag, I see no reason why it wouldn't work. Shield/Wyatts and Shield/SuperFriends from EC 14 and 13 were both using no gimmicks and ended up being classics. HHH showed at WM that he works at his best as a heel, Orton is super whenever he turns up in A form and Batista works well in tag matches where he doesn't spend as much time in the ring plus his conditioning has improved tremendously compared to the Royal Rumble when he looked like he was gonna pass out after just one minute. I got big hopes for this match.



Yea, cause little fairies running around with gelled up hair and flopping at the smallest bit of contact like they've been shot is more REAL than 300 lb leviathans trying to bull doze each other while some other athletic freaks of nature run around trying to avoid being decapitated. . Y'all don't know what you are missing with American football, it's only the greatest thing ever 

Sorry had to get my jokes in, my brother in law is from Manchester and I can never resist tormenting him about the superiority of US sports.

I'm thinking the Evolution/Shield tag will be the MotN. As good as I believe Danielson/Kane will be, I'm just more a fan of big tags. Steve Austin said on his podcast and it think it's true, a great tag match is nearly impossible to top with a straight up singles match. There is just more factors and personalities involved in a tag that leads to a higher success rate. The Shield are all great, Hunter was great at Mania, and Orton has been mostly great since Decmber. That's 5 out of the 6 guys that can definitely cut it in the ring, I'm hoping pandemonium reigns supermen and we are treated to a similar experience like we got at EC with that masterful 6 man.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That thing you Americans call "football" (we Europeans call it rugby) is not even proper football, as far as I know the only FOOTball part is when they shoot, from there it's just running with a handegg in their hands :lol 

No disrespect though, but the REAL football, as "fairy" as it is, is still more, you know, FOOTBALL 

But off-topic aside, Bryan/Kane is my prediction for MOTN if they truly go all-out, however, knowing the greatness of *S*IERRA *H*OTEL *I*NDIA *E*CHO *L*IMA *D*ELTA, Shield/Evolution might just steal the spotlight. And then again, there is always Cena/Wyatt or RVD/Swagger/Cesaro to _*run away with the ball*_ 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Anyone else mentions any kind of football in this thread and I'll ban you for a week. I ain't wanting none of that shite in my thread dammit. Whichever version of "football" you like, you are wrong. Because they all suck.

:lmao C2D only just found out I had him on my ignore list for like a year? How did you find out? 

Totally forgot it was ER tonight until about 20 mins ago my friend text me asking if it was alright to pop down 2morrow and pick up a copy :lmao.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Googled my username and came across mentions of me in another site. Discovered that little hideout you and the other "old timers" hang around. Some of you were talking maaad shit about me. But I fully understand since most of my anti-Punk posts were so over the top to the point even I started finding myself annoying. 

I also found out that you guys don't like lists so if I had any plans for them, they're canceled. At least no more slideshows. 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Yea, cause little fairies running around with gelled up hair and flopping at the smallest bit of contact like they've been shot is more REAL than 300 lb leviathans trying to bull doze each other while some other athletic freaks of nature run around trying to avoid being decapitated. . Y'all don't know what you are missing with American football, it's only the greatest thing ever


If I want physical, I'll stick to wrestling. Thank you.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Shield/Evolution I'm most looking forward to tonight and I reckon it will be MOTN. I don't really care for Bryan/Kane at all, total filler feud, and I've never thought much of any of their matches in the past. 



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Whichever version of "football" you like, you are wrong. Because they all suck.


Cal is right here.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You googled yourself? 

WHICH site did you come across for those posts btw? Not that there are multiple ones :side:.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

You answered your own question! Wrestlingelite is the one. And if anyone else there doesn't like me, they have nothing to worry about because I'm not joining. 

What made you change your mind on me?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Googled my username and came across mentions of me in another site. Discovered that little hideout you and the other "old timers" hang around. Some of you were talking maaad shit about me. But I fully understand since most of my anti-Punk posts were so over the top to the point even I started finding myself annoying.
> 
> I also found out that you guys don't like lists so if I had any plans for them, they're canceled. At least no more slideshows.
> 
> ...



Lmfao that is histerical. I love lists, can't make it a day through work without making a "To Do" list. My top 100 WCW matches list has been an ongoing project since the Network came out. So keep on with your lists, I've used your Top 100 Orton matches list quite a few times when looking for something new to watch. I'm planning on doing a top 100 for both Eddie and Foley but the problem is-they have a lot of stuff in Japan that's hard to find. Foley I'm not so sure it matters, as outside of his matches with Funk I don't think he did anything too noteworthy, at-least he never brings up having any classics over there in his book. Eddie on the other hand I'm sure had quite a few top 100 worthy matches over there. That's why it seems that I'll forever be stuck at 60 which is where I currently am at the moment.

I did get the Benoit/Regal/Finlay compilation Cal made so all my lists will be on hold once I get that. I'm just gonna watch it from start to finish and digest their entire series of matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ahhh you find the good site . Again, not that there are any others :side:. And you couldn't join if you wanted, sign ups as closed and new members can only get in by recommendation and approval from everyone .

Eventually you stopped being a retarded anti-punk poster and just a retard 8*D. Or just an anti-punk poster that wasn't so retarded 8*D. I forget which.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

MOAR LISTS


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I did get the Benoit/Regal/Finlay compilation Cal made so all my lists will be on hold once I get that. I'm just gonna watch it from start to finish and digest their entire series of matches.


I'm sure Cal would love to take credit for that one, but a bloke called 'Bix' made it I think, he also did an excellent Steamboat/Flair comp and a Lawler vs Rich/Idol comp too, amongst others. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Dafuq? Thought this was the match/show discussion thread.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

rewatched ER 2011

Orton vs CM Punk LMS ***3/4
Sheamus/Kofi Table ***
Jack Swagger/Michael Cole vs. Jerry Lawler/Jim Ross LOL
Cody vs Rey FCA FUN ***1/2
McCool vs Layla **
Christian/Del Rio ****1/4
Kane/Show vs Wade/Zeke *
Miz/Morrison/Cena Cage GREAT ****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lol, yeah, I didn't make that comp . Only comps I've made are the ones with WE in the title. And I think that's about... 4 in total? I got lazy and never did any more lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Lol, yeah, I didn't make that comp . Only comps I've made are the ones with WE in the title. And I think that's about... 4 in total? I got lazy and never did any more lol.


WE? Are they yours lol, didn't realise. 

Good idea them though.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

etrbaby said:


> rewatched ER 2011
> 
> Orton vs CM Punk LMS ***3/4
> Sheamus/Kofi Table ***
> ...


(Y)

I haven't seen the match since but I remember it being really freaking good and surprised at how damn good it was. Extreme Rules is probably WWE's only consistently good PPV. Although I HATED last year's show. 2012 was definitely the best show in the series and one of the GOAT PPVs.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Ahhh you find the good site . Again, not that there are any others :side:. And you couldn't join if you wanted, sign ups as closed and new members can only get in by recommendation and approval from everyone .


So there's only one site and yet you're curious which one I found? :lol

Also I couldn't view the threads as a guest so I had to use google cache to get a good view of everything said.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yes, strange. There is only ONE site. Correct. :side:

Gonna watch a wrestling match. Something I love. Not sure which one yet.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch a stellar tag team match.

Or watch the Simmons vs Reed steel cage match and do what I do; wished it had a better, less abrupt finish.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> (Y)
> 
> I haven't seen the match since but I remember it being really freaking good and surprised at how damn good it was. *Extreme Rules is probably WWE's only consistently good PPV.* Although I HATED last year's show. 2012 was definitely the best show in the series and one of the GOAT PPVs.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Every Extreme Rules PPV is shit pardon 2012.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just came across this, never heard of it before:

Chris Benoit & Fit Finlay v ***** Casas & Eddy Guerrero Guerrero (NJPW 4.30.92)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Every Extreme Rules PPV is shit pardon 2012.


2011 was far from shit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Every Extreme Rules PPV is shit pardon 2012.


I agree with this. 09 had a fun ecw title triple threat, '10 Punk/Mysterio possibly (can't remember if it was good or not though, but on paper it looks good), '11 had the ladder match (fuck you cody the ladder match rules) and '13 had... ummmm... nothing? Wait, I liked the tag titles match. So yeah. All one match shows except '12. And the 1 match was never AWESOME or anything.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2011 had *Rey/Cody*, Sheamus/Kofi and the Triple Threat Cage aside from the Ladder match. Oh, and I liked Orton/Punk too even though it's very proppy.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

^ Christian winning the World Heavyweight Championship was a beautiful moment and an awesome climax to a great match... then Orton shat on his dreams two days later lol


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

2010 had Punk/Rey and Batista/Cena LMS


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

:lmao Completely forgot bout that whole Orton/Christian thing. Meh, they had a really good series of matches despite all the bullshit.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Speaking of Batista/Cena LMS, how was their I Quit match? I just watched their WM 26 match and never actually got the chance to watch their LMS and I Quit match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Yes, strange. There is only ONE site. Correct. :side:
> 
> Gonna watch a wrestling match. Something I love. Not sure which one yet.



Not sure if you have seen this so I don't know if it counts as "something you love", but yesterday I was completely and totally blown away by the Steamboat/Douglas vs Austin/Pillman tag from COTC XXII. You really cannot go wrong with it, seriously in the ****1/4+ range IMO. 

Or if you want some Deadman to cheer you up, Brothers of Destruction vs Two Man Power Trip tag from Backlash always puts a smile on my face...

OR Brothers of Destruction vs Finlay and King Bookah from Smackdown is a blast. I know you hate Booker, but the other 3 involved more than make up for him.



The Hitman said:


> Just came across this, never heard of it before:
> 
> Chris Benoit & Fit Finlay v ***** Casas & Eddy Guerrero Guerrero (NJPW 4.30.92)



I posted this in the last discussion thread we had. Great find man, really really good match I dig it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I agree with this. 09 had a fun ecw title triple threat, '10 Punk/Mysterio possibly (can't remember if it was good or not though, but on paper it looks good), '11 had the ladder match (fuck you cody the ladder match rules) and '13 had... ummmm... nothing? Wait, I liked the tag titles match. So yeah. All one match shows except '12. And the 1 match was never AWESOME or anything.


2009 don't you mean the Jericho vs Mysterio match that RULES THE WORLD? :hmm:

Replace ladder w/RHODES VS MYSTERIO. But yeah, they're all one-two match shows and that's it. Last years I was so pumped for and then bust. Event has a bad stigma. Here comes 2014's and I openly only give a damn to see two matches signed. Not a good start.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched my absolutely favourite match ever . Still holds up as THE greatest match I have ever seen. I <3 HIAC .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> 2009 don't you mean the Jericho vs Mysterio match that RULES THE WORLD? :hmm:
> 
> Replace ladder w/RHODES VS MYSTERIO. But yeah, they're all one-two match shows and that's it. Last years I was so pumped for and then bust. Event has a bad stigma. Here comes 2014's and I openly only give a damn to see two matches signed. Not a good start.


I'm not high on any Jericho/Mysterio match so fuck them. Also don't care for that Cody/Rey match. Love their WM match but didn't care for the ER or SD rematches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> 2009 don't you mean the Jericho vs Mysterio match that RULES THE WORLD? :hmm:
> 
> Replace ladder w/RHODES VS MYSTERIO. But yeah, they're all one-two match shows and that's it. Last years I was so pumped for and then bust. Event has a bad stigma. Here comes 2014's and I openly only give a damn to see two matches signed. Not a good start.


Agreed. We always talk about their classic at The Bash 2009 but that Extreme Rules match was almost as good. Loved Jericho cutting a promo while walking through the merch stand and in through the crowd. Matter of fact, I know what I shall watch right as soon as the Christian/ADR ER match I'm currently viewing is over


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Watched my absolutely favourite match ever . Still holds up as THE greatest match I have ever seen. I <3 HIAC .


Watched it myself the other day, just as stunning as it was all those years ago. Forgot about the piledriver on the steps spot too and just how good Michaels' blade job was.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Speaking of Batista/Cena LMS, how was their I Quit match? I just watched their WM 26 match and never actually got the chance to watch their LMS and I Quit match.


Last Man Standing match is great. I Quit match is awful.

--------

Cal, ***** you crazy. Liking mediocre ladder matches but not loving everything Mysterio does. boourns


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The ladder match might be the weakest ADR/Christian match


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TBF Mysterio was working with Jericho so it's JERICHO'S fault I'm not into the matches as much . Plus, you know, they all felt same-y and as if they scripted the entire thing move for move before hand. Worked for Savage and DDP most of the time but not for those guys.

And stop hating on the ladder match you twit.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

ADR/Christian did have a great series in 2011 (Y)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

On Extreme Rules PPVs:

- I have not seen most of 2009 but Rey/Jericho does rule the world
- 2010 had the awesome LMS, Punk/Rey might be good but I don't remember and I thought Orton/Swagger wasn't half bad. Didn't care for Jericho/Edge, though.
- 2011 was consistently enjoyable for me. Cage triple threat, ladder match, LMS, FCA - they were all fun.
- Nothing more needs to be said on 2012
- Last year I enjoyed Orton/Show, Shield/Hell No and specially the main event. LMS was decent I thought.

So I hope tonight delivers with the three big matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can't. b/c that feeling of emptiness after I finally saw it was much too large for me to comeback from. Didn't help I easily preferred all the TV matches Christian & Del Rio had a few months prior to Extreme Rules. None of this matters after they gave me what they did at SummerSlam last year. Oh. My. Science. Tremendous.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I can't. b/c that feeling of emptiness after I finally saw it was much too large for me to comeback from. Didn't help I easily preferred all the TV matches Christian & Del Rio had a few months prior to Extreme Rules. None of this matters after they gave me what they did at SummerSlam last year. Oh. My. Science. Tremendous.


Well at least you like their other matches. That's something. I might watch their series again some time. Just looked at the best of Raw & SD 2011 set and they only have one match on there (cage) . I WANT THEM ALL.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ignore every recommendation put forth, Cal. Watch this:






:lmao Imagine the Austin/Booker T supermarket brawl taken to a whole other level.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Well at least you like their other matches. That's something. I might watch their series again some time. Just looked at the best of Raw & SD 2011 set and they only have one match on there (cage) . I WANT THEM ALL.


Got every Smackdown on DVD from 2011 so I got 'em all. :hayley3


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I can't. b/c that feeling of emptiness after I finally saw it was much too large for me to comeback from. Didn't help I easily preferred all the TV matches Christian & Del Rio had a few months prior to Extreme Rules. None of this matters after they gave me what they did at SummerSlam last year. Oh. My. Science. Tremendous.


ADR/Christian last year at Summerslam was great but overlooked due to Punk/Lesnar and Bryan/Cena being on the same card. Christian did an amazing job selling that shoulder :banderas


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Got every Smackdown on DVD from 2011 so I got 'em all. :hayley3


I'm sure I'll be able to just download the eps I want with their matches on .


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

ER last year was pretty bad imo, Payback smokes it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> The Austin vs Jericho match combo was one that simply never meshed, tbhayley.


Have you seen 6/4/01 and 8/23/01?



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Or watch the Simmons vs Reed steel cage match and do what I do; wished it had a better, less abrupt finish.


I DID NOT KNOW THIS IS A THING



StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Speaking of Batista/Cena LMS, how was their I Quit match? I just watched their WM 26 match and never actually got the chance to watch their LMS and I Quit match.





me said:


> John Cena v. Batista
> I thought this was a potentially really good match ruined by a bad gimmick. I think I’m come to realise I kind of don’t like I Quit matches at all. The ‘say it’/’do you quit?’ stuff can kind of break up the action, and it feels lousy when, after going through hell, the wrestler answering says ‘no’ in what sounds like his normal voice. On the surface this had big moments that felt big and not convoluted, a solid story to it, and perfectly serviceable moments of drama. What I’m trying to say is it wasn’t Cena or Batista’s fault that the match wasn’t terribly good. If it was another last man standing for example, I bet they would have had a match on par with the Etxreme Rules epic. As long as they left that comical car spot out. Holy shit that was terrible, and Batista looked ridiculous in that Wiggle-Mobile. This wasn’t much, but I probably liked it as much as the I Quit match Cena had with JBL in 2005. NOT ADDING.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> ADR/Christian last year at Summerslam was great but overlooked due to Punk/Lesnar and Bryan/Cena being on the same card. Christian did an amazing job selling that shoulder :banderas


Which boggles my mind as all three are basically perfect for all their own reasons.

Del Rio's kick to Christian's head in the corner was the sickest thing ever.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I'm sure I'll be able to just download the eps I want with their matches on .


Indeed.

Their singles match after the cage. iirc that one may have been their best. Awesome sprint.



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> ER last year was pretty bad imo, Payback smokes it.


Payback is a meh/weak show too. Pretty atypical WWE PPV. We're just lucky it had something really worth seeing on it in Del Rio vs Ziggler.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Which boggles my mind as all three are basically perfect for all their own reasons.
> 
> Del Rio's kick to Christian's head in the corner was the sickest thing ever.


Del Rio's kicks and enziguris are a thing a BEAUTY. He definitely knows how to use them. Del Rio's kicks to Ziggler at Payback.. CHRIST.

Summerslam last year was such a great show. I'm sad that I wasn't there to witness it  I would've definitely lost my shit at Punk/Lesnar, Cena/Bryan, and Hunter's heel turn.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Payback is a meh/weak show too. Pretty atypical WWE PPV. We're just lucky it had something really worth seeing on it in Del Rio vs Ziggler.


AJ/Katlyn, Axel/Wade/Miz, Bryton/Shield and Jericho/Punk too. :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> AJ/Katlyn, Axel/Wade/Miz, Bryton/Shield and Jericho/Punk too. :mark:


They all suck except AJ/Kaitlyn .


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> They all suck except AJ/Kaitlyn .


Jericho/Punk was the best. ****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That's about ***3/4 too high tbh.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Jericho/Punk at Payback was pretty disappointing. I couldn't get into it at all.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

You gave it 1/4*, please don't tell me anyone agrees with this unworthy rating.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I never actually gave it a rating. It wasn't worth my time sticking one on lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> You gave it 1/4*, please don't tell me anyone agrees with this unworthy rating.


Most of this thread agrees on giving it a low rating. I thought I was alone in thinking it sucked when the PPV happened but it looks like more and more started agreeing with me. I don't know what went wrong because their Wrestlemania match was incredible, the Extreme Rules one wasn't bad and they had a solid match on Raw last year. But then Payback happened and it was a poor performance by both and in the end, they got lazy and just exchanged finishers.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Payback last year was great. Fuck the haters!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Don't worry, MR. Marston. So long as I'm here, Payback (and Punk/Jericho especially) will get its due. Terrific PPV.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Hear, hear. Throw up them ratings.

Sheamus/Sandow (**)
Axel/Wade/Miz (***)
AJ/Kaitlyn (***1/4)
Ambrose/Kane (*1/2)
Del Rio/Ziggler (****1/4)
Punk/Jericho (****)
Shield/Bryton (***1/2)
Cena/Ryback (**)


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> BEST THING ON HIGH SPOTS
> 
> even though I still haven't gotten it yet b/c Seabs has one that's larger & that's where my money needs to go. Someday.


Yep That is coming home with me one of these days like a thick girl with Daddy issues.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Don't worry, MR. Marston. So long as I'm here, Payback (and Punk/Jericho especially) will get its due. Terrific PPV.



Man I was totally in your camp. Watching Jericho/Punker live, I totally thought it was great. I don't know if it's just because I was expecting greatness, or that I was happy to see Punk back, or what, but I remember being totally sucked in and even digging the finisher exchanges in the end.

Then I bought the Blu Ray. Oh boy. The difference between watching it on a stream and seeing it in Hi Def was like night and day. It was unbearably sloppy at times. And not sloppy in a "Punk is working a ring rust story" because I know it had moments when that's the idea they were going for. It was sloppy in a "both guys have no clue what the fuck they are doing" kinda way. It really does seem like halfway through they just threw up their hands and said "fuck it, let's do another Code Breaker". Granted, I don't think that's what ACTUALLY happened, as Jericho said in an interview that their Payback match was the best in their series. They must have done everything intentionally, but the end result to me was just a muddled, sloppy, discombobulated, mess.

Even the triple threat became "meh" on a rewatch. Seeing it live it totally exceeded expectations and I thought it was pretty darn good. Watched it again, and nope. Just downright silly at times and it seemed like one of those matches where all 3 performers needed instruction manuals before hand because it all was so prefabricated.

So yea, AJ/Kaitlyn and Dolph/ADR are really the only matches from that show that were worth my time. On the plus side, the Blu Ray included Rollins/Bryan from Raw, so it was a totally worthwhile purchase


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

My god. This mini TLC match is just too much. Jerry Smaller in the mini announce table.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Payback was decent I guess. Jericho/Punk was absolutely horrible. Gave it a DUD. The rest of the card was solid to fun, but nothing you need to ever watch again outside of the excellent Del Rio/Ziggler match. Tag Title match, IC Title triple threat, AJ/Kaitlyn, and Cena/Ryback were all between ** 1/2 and *** for me. Those blu ray extras though.. WOW.

Extreme Rules time!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The midget match was better than it had any right being. :lmao


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That match was amazing

Dont think I can rate it tho


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

If anyone didn't watch the weeLC match go do it asap.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The stage set for Extreme Rules looks like poo. Doesn't resemble a PPV set at all imo.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Mascarita Dorada is a world class talent.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Guys. The WeeLC needs viewing from all pronto. That was just too much fun, wish they would have had less 3MB and Matadores and just let them go at it longer. Torito was killing it and Hornswoggle was good, they didn't need the others out there.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

One of you needs to do a Midget retrospective in WWE. 

I know there were mini matches in 1997. Probably before that too.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

liked the Triple Threat match, but it lacked something distinctive


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yea I think I'd go ***1/2 for the triple threat. Really liked it, but it didn't reach that "great" level. Still a very good match.

That IC title match was awful though. Big E has not a single clue about how to wrestle. It's just lots of running the ropes and senseless power moves with weak ass strikes. Ugh. He needs to go back to NXT to get better.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Remember when everyone was freaking out about Evolution main eventing over Bryan tonight? No one could've predicted this match to go on 4th! :lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Line in the Sand :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Triple Threat was really good... ***1/4-***1/2ish. Barrett/Big E was better than I expected. **1/2 for that.

Nothing beats Torito/Hornswoggle's ***** encounter though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

IC Title and opener were really fun. But can we please just end the debate already and declare The Shield as the greatest stable ever? God damn, they're perfect!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

My fucking god what a match


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Six-man tag delivered


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

BELIEVE IN THE SHIELD.

****1/2 for that. Absolutely a classic. Seth fucking Rollins everyone. Seth Fucking Rollins. He's a complete lunatic but god do I love him.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

ROLLINS :mark:

That was great.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Shield vs. Evolution was great. It was an all out war. Rollins is a crazy motherfucker :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

6-man tag was a great match. Most of it did drag on and wasn't all that good, but the last 5 or so minutes were freakin' awesome with Ambrose going crazy and Rollins' risk taking. 

***1/2 for it, MOTN so far.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah Rollins made that match, well the whole Shield did, so everyone was GOAT 

I too will go ****1/2 for that, can the Shield be together forever!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Seth Rollins > Jeff Hardy

Fuck what anyone was thinking about going into the match, Shield & Evolution just tore the fucking house down!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, now all the Evolution doubters can fuck off.  (how apt I pressed reply as it appeared right below Corey's post)

I'd go ★★★★ for it. Missed the first couple of minutes but by the looks of it, it wasn't much. At least I caught all the awesome stuff in the end. ROLLINS is insane!

Another one in the collection of awesome tags Shield and Evolution have had.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

****1/4 for the 6 man tag, awesome shit.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Batista has been a part of two *****1/2* matches this year. That's as many as how many *****1/2* matches he had in his entire first run :lmao


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Six man ***1/4.

Usually a sucker for that formula but the first 10-15 minutes was absolutely pointless. Finishing sequence was class.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

TBH, Ambrose/Rollins made that match, so Evolution can still fuck off. 

But nah, it's all good. Everyone did their part in that ending. Orton and HHH sold it all well, Ambrose going crazy, Rollins being awesome, and Batista and Reigns laying there and staying out of the way of the awesomeness.

Edit: ****1/2 ratings fall out of the sky like candy out of a pinata. :lol


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

**** for Shield v Evolution. Great match.

I'm going to utter the same thing people say when they talk about Rock v Mankind RR99. Not enough "wrestling". Whatever that means.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The camera work in that 6-man was wonderful. Show's been great so far. They must have some seriously big plans for Bryan vs. Kane.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Orton was great in that match as well, fuck the haters.

But Ambrose/Rollins stole the show.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Don't get buried Bray


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

DoubtGin said:


> Orton was great in that match as well, fuck the haters.
> 
> But Ambrose/Rollins stole the show.


I think Batista gets more hate tbf. And no one can take away from the fact that he sold that superman punch like a boss.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> TBH, Ambrose/Rollins made that match, so Evolution can still fuck off.
> 
> But nah, it's all good. Everyone did their part in that ending. Orton and HHH sold it all well, Ambrose going crazy, Rollins being awesome, and Batista and Reigns laying there and staying out of the way of the awesomeness.
> 
> Edit: ****1/2 ratings fall out of the sky like candy out of a pinata. :lol



When a match is THAT good why should it get anything else? I think it was just as good as the Elimination Chamber 6man and I have that ****1/2 so this should earn it as well. If you don't like it as much that's totally cool, but I happen to think it was an all time classic, hence the ****1/2 rating. It could go down on rewatch but I'm going with my gut here, I was totally riveted the entire time and damn near had an orgasm over the last 10 or so minutes. 

Make no mistake though, Evolution was just there. That was a SHIELD match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah I agree with Cjack, tbf it'll probably go down on the rewatch but it was a fun match to watch live, and it was definitely an all shield match, probably my favorite performance by Ambrose too, coming from someone whos not a huge fan of him. Rollins was something else in that and Reigns was awesome per the usual


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> When a match is THAT good why should it get anything else? I think it was just as good as the Elimination Chamber 6man and I have that ****1/2 so this should earn it as well. If you don't like it as much that's totally cool, but I happen to think it was an all time classic, hence the ****1/2 rating. It could go down on rewatch but I'm going with my gut here, I was totally riveted the entire time and damn near had an orgasm over the last 10 or so minutes.
> 
> Make no mistake though, Evolution was just there. That was a SHIELD match.


It's cool if you think it's really up there. Hell, in fact I kinda envy whenever someone enjoys a match that much and I can't. Though I've gotten to the point where a ****1/2 has to be damn near flawless throughout at the very least. That match just wasn't to me, and certainly nowhere near EC 6-man tag between Wyatts and Shield. 

Still, don't want to take away from the fact it was a great match, and I definitely don't want to take away from what Ambrose and Rollins did. The two of them put it all in the match. Only people I didn't think were any good were Reigns and Batista... and even then Batista was still fun to see come in for all the heat he got. :lmao


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

Evolution vs. The Shield - ****

Definitely not as good as the Wyatt's vs. the Shield from EC, but great anyways. Great job by all 6 guys, especially Dean & Seth!


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

I'd give it a ***** 1/2*. Rollins is a fucking machine. He's like Jeff Hardy with the ability to not need spots.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Reigns was godly in that match too. This cage match so far has been alright, but it's a WWE cage match unfortunately.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Meh. Why couldn't Harper/Rowan just stay out of this?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Reigns doing his usual stuff isn't "godly" by any means.

Wow, Cena's had the match won twice... fucking ridiculous. If Bray wins it's pointless and if Cena wins, it's now 100x worse than it would've been without all the interference. Match is boring.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Fuck you Cena.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Bray vs Cena sucks.

And if you like this, you have no right to complain about Russo booking. This is a classic overbooked to hell match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

:jordan


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hahahaha. What the fuck just happened??? That match sucked donkey balls by the way.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I can't say anything good about that match. Nothing at all. Dud.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

What in the actual fuck was that? Super Cena at his absolute worst, with one of the dumber, more ridiculous, finishes I've ever seen.

That match was blehh, but all the Super Cena antics, senseless interference, and ridiculous finish brought it down to downright crappyness.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

DUD


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Awful... just awful. How could they go from that great Mania match, to that shit? That was honestly DUD worthy. Ridiculous.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Didn't think the cage match was as bad as the bunch of you. But I was barely paying attention for the first half as I was playing with my phone instead. All the overbooking and that ending, though... :lmao


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Bray looked like shit in that match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I've gotten to the point where I just laugh at all the silly Cena antics instead of getting angry. So that match was filled with comedy :lol. With that said, it was pretty awful. But this is John Cena we are talking about. 12 years and he still can't wrestle a gimmick match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I would go * for the cage match, it would of been much better had it not been for the overbooked shit and the Supercena shit 

I actually thought the ending was hilarious


----------



## FoundLacking (Mar 29, 2014)

The match sucked, but the suck has only begun. Cena has to come out of the feud looking strong, so we've still got one more match left where he wins clean. Get out the shovel!


----------



## FoundLacking (Mar 29, 2014)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> I would go * for the cage match, it would of been much better had it not been for the overbooked shit and the Supercena shit
> 
> I actually thought the ending was hilarious


I don't think they were going for hilarious, unfortunately.

I wish the kid had started singing What a Wonderful World


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Well tbf I was a LITTLE creeped out by that, but it was still pretty funny


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Paige in her match kada

Why can't all great female wrestlers look so good?

And the Cena finish felt like a farce to be honest.


----------



## FoundLacking (Mar 29, 2014)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> Paige in her match kada
> 
> Why can't all great female wrestlers look so good?
> 
> And the Cena finish felt like a farce to be honest.


It was like the ending to Cena vs. Brock, except everything up to that point sucked too.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

El Torito vs Hornswoggle WeeLC: *****
Swagger vs Cesaro vs RVD Triple Threat Elimination: ***1/2
Rusev vs Woods/R-Truth Handicap: DUD
Shield vs Evolution: ****1/4
Wyatt vs Cena Steel Cage: DUD
Paige vs Tamina: *3/4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That match just makes me angry. It did nothing but damage to the characters involved, no one benefits from a match booked like that. If they weren't willing to have Cena lose with a minimal amount of cheating, they shouldn't have continued the feud. It's really that simple. 

And WWE just needs to stop doing cage matches if they insist on having them be watered down pieces of garbage like they currently are. I swear, only 1 in 5 are watchable and only 1 in 10 are GOOD Matches.


----------



## FoundLacking (Mar 29, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That match just makes me angry. It did nothing but damage to the characters involved, no one benefits from a match booked like that. If they weren't willing to have Cena lose with a minimal amount of cheating, they shouldn't have continued the feud. It's really that simple.
> 
> And WWE just needs to stop doing cage matches if they insist on having them be watered down pieces of garbage like they currently are. I swear, only 1 in 5 are watchable and only 1 in 10 are GOOD Matches.


I think letting them have the option of just walking out of the door with no consequences really detracts from the match. What's the point of putting them in a cage if there's an exit?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Paige sucks


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Honestly, I ain't feeling this Bryan/Kane match...


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I dont think you enjoy anything BRO 8*D


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Paige sucks


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Well let me rephrase, shes not the wrestling godess people claim her to be, shes good, but not great


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I don't know what to say about that scene.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

DAT :brock call-back! Summerslam match incoming.


----------



## FoundLacking (Mar 29, 2014)

That was probably the 2nd most important usage of a forklift in WWE history.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Match was kinda fun... though maybe I'm too tired right now to appreciate it, but I wouldn't call it "good". Plus it looks like the feud is continuing which makes me wanna throw up a little. Was hoping Bryan would move onto HHH at Payback. /sigh


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Honestly, I really enjoyed that match. I enjoyed the brawl backstage and I really liked how Bryan used the forklift to carry Kane to the ring a la Brock Lesnar/Big Show JD 2003 and the diving headbutt off the forklift was really cool. The action was great and the flaming table spot was nice to see, especially in this day in age of the WWE. Really good match imo.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Wow. Honestly loved Bryan/Kane from bell to bell. Think it's on the same level as Shield/Evolution. A lot of memorable spots and moments on tonight's show.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Forklift was cringe worthy


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Caught the last few minutes of Bryan/Kane. Fun stuff. Hopefully it's one and done for that feud but it looks like it might continue.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Honestly, I really enjoyed that match. I enjoyed the brawl backstage and I really liked how Bryan used the forklift to carry Kane to the ring a la Brock Lesnar/Big Show JD 2003 and the diving headbutt off the forklift was really cool. The action was great and the flaming table spot was nice to see, especially in this day in age of the WWE. Really good match imo.


Pretty much everything I wanted to say.

Evolution/Shield is my MOTN but this one second and third would be the triple threat then... nothing.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

**3/4-*** for the main event, disappointing


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

RVD/Swagger/Cesaro **
Rusev/Truth&Woods eh
Barrett/Big E *1/2
Evo/Shield ***1/4
Bray/Cena dud
Kane/Bryan ***1/4

Looking back at that makes me feel cynical :<. Oh well.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Fantastic show, imo. Enjoyed the hell out of it. Even the few matches I didn't like were at least intriguing. 

Also, not modding the WWE section here has made me 300x less cynical.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

I'd give the ME a **** 3/4*.

Lots of fun.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Going **** for the main event, liked that a lot, here are my full ratings 

RVD/Cesaro/Swagger: ***1/2 
Ruse/Jobbers: DUD 
Barrett/Big E: 1/2*
Evolution/Shield: ****1/2 
Cena/Bray: * 
Paige/Tamina: * 
Kane/Bryan: ****


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Mascarita Dorada vs. Hornswoggle: ***3/4*
RVD vs. Cesaro vs. Jack Swagger: ****1/4*
Alexander Rusev vs. Black People: ****
Big E vs. Bad News Barrett: ***3/4*
The Shield vs. Evolution: *****1/2*
John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt: *LOLWTF*
Paige vs. Tamina: ***
Daniel Bryan vs. Kane: ****1/2*

Not a bad PPV, but one of the three triple main events flopped, which prevented it from being as good as EC or WM.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

RVD/Swagger/Cesaro ***1/4
Rusev/Truth&Woods- 1/2*
Barrett/Big E **1/2
Evo/Shield ***1/2
Bray/Cena DUD
Kane/Bryan ** (was falling asleep here... I'll give it a re-watch tomorrow, I wasn't all that focused on it)


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Ratings for the card 

Cesaro/RVD/ Swagger: ***1/4
Barrett/Langston: **1/4
Evolution/Shield: ****
Cena/Bray: ***
Kane/Bryan: ***3/4

Awesome show. I know some won't like it, but I feel they'll do Kane/Bryan again. After tonight I won't mind it. Kane has been getting shit on lately. Not cool! Lol :thumbdown:


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Swagger/RVD/Cesaro - ***
Rusev/Truth and Woods - Wasn't paying attention
Barrett/Big E - **
Evolution/Shield - ****1/4
Bray/Cena - Missed like 15 minutes because I was taking a shower, but I thought that it wasn't great
Paige/Tamina - **1/2
Bryan/Kane - ****

Fun night. Evolution/Shield stole the show and Bryan/Kane was a fun brawl.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

That Cena V Wyatt match might be the worst Cena PPV match I've ever seen.

Overbooked nonsense.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

^ Renee looks very uncomfortable


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WWE Extreme Rules 2014

**Extreme Three-Way Dance
*Jack Swagger vs. Cesaro vs. Rob Van Dam - *** 1/4

*2-on-1 Handicap Match
*Alexander Rusev vs. R-Truth & Xavier Woods - * 1/2

*Intercontiental Championship
*Big E (c) vs. Bad News Barrett - ** 3/4

The Shield vs. Evolution - **** 1/4

*Steel Cage Match
*John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt - * 3/4

*Divas Championship
*Paige (c) vs. Tamina - **

*WWE World Heavyweight Championship - Extreme Rules Match
*Daniel Bryan (c) vs. Kane - ****

- Don't feel like typing out a long review but this show resembled Elimination Chamber SO much. Started well, had a great match in the middle, and ended well. Not a whole lot in between. Having a tough time jumping back and forth between **** and **** 1/4 for Shield/Evo and Bryan/Kane. Two totally awesome and completely different matches. Kane & Bryan had so many memorable moments and Shield/Evolution resembled an all out ECW brawl in the late stages. Wonderful matches.​


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The realization that The Shield beat Triple H, Randy Orton and Batista makes me so damn happy.

WE OUT HERE


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I really liked that PPV a lot. Bryan/Kane and Shield/Evolution really delivered.

Cena/Wyatt is a good example of why having a cage match where you can win by escape is stupid. After seeing that I was left with the impression that the combined IQ of Cena, Harper, Rowan, and Wyatt was about 24. Cena tried to escape the cage over and over when he knew that he couldn't because of Harper and Rowan being outside. But Harper and Rowan were just so damn stupid. Rowan couldn't seem to comprehend that he could just walk into the cage and beat up Cena. Why wouldn't they all just run into the cage at the same time since the door was open the whole time and there was no DQ? I was so annoyed because I was into the match when things started out and they could have had a good match but went and ruined it with just horrible logic in how everyone acted.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Extreme Three-Way Dance
Jack Swagger vs. Cesaro vs. Rob Van Dam - *** 1/4

2-on-1 Handicap Match
Alexander Rusev vs. R-Truth & Xavier Woods - * 

Intercontiental Championship
Big E (c) vs. Bad News Barrett - ** 3/4

The Shield vs. Evolution - **** 1/4

Steel Cage Match
John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt - ***

Divas Championship
Paige (c) vs. Tamina - **

WWE World Heavyweight Championship - Extreme Rules Match
Daniel Bryan (c) vs. Kane - ***3/4​
Overall, I thought it was a fun show, I honestly do not get the Wyatt/Cena hate at all, everyone knew it was going to happen. Debating on going **** for Bryan/Kane, it was exactly what I wanted, just a bit more dragged out. Shield/Evolution was fantastic, the last 7 minutes or so was batshit crazy, Rollins killed himself three times.

Enjoyable show, also everyone watch the weeLC match, too good for stars.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

*Extreme Rules ratings:*

RVD vs. Cesaro vs. Jack Swagger - *****
Alexander Rusev vs. R-Truth and Xavier Woods - ***
Big E vs. Wade Barrett - ***1/2*
The Shield vs. Evolution - *****1/4*
John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt - **1/2*
Paige vs. Tamina - ***
Daniel Bryan vs. Kane - ***3/4*

Shield/Evolution was MOTN as I thought it would be. Bryan/Kane wasn't anything special as I thought it would be. Wasn't expected much from this PPV so can't complain much - other than being disappointed with the Cena/Wyatt match due to all the overbooked nonsense ruining it, which was a shame. Main event was underwhelming I thought. 

But at least I can be happy about the fact that every match I did bet on - I got right.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I thought I was reading my own review there for a second.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I thought I was reading my own review there for a second.


They were extremely similar lol, glad someone else seemed to enjoy Bryan/Kane as much as I did!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I need a torrent for this show to hurry up and come out. Stoked to watch Evolution/Shield.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Extreme Rules 2014 was fuckin awesome. I had a blast. TRIPLE MAIN EVENT. :mark: 8/10


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Clash of the Champions II: Miami Mayhem is now available on the WWE Network. Again, these haven't been put in a catalog yet so you'll have to search 'clash of the champions' to find them. I, II, and XXII are all available to watch now. I also read a report stating that once all the Clashes have been uploaded, Saturday Night's Main Event will follow. If this is true then :mark:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

*Evolution vs. Shield* started out as an old school style wrestling match, with Evolution using various weardown and heel techniques, to try to gain the upperhand on Shield. I liked the usage of quick tags. They didn't do anything flashy, so I have a feeling that if I were to read the live thread, there will be a lot of "this sucks" "boring" etc. allegations. Still haven't yet read the board or this thread, but I thought that it was a logical tactic, and probably something a lot of the now generation wouldn't really appreciate.

It also worked to make the second half even more special. Methodical approach still doesn't work, and then it becomes an all out war. It also served as a nice juxtaposition. The old school approach vs. the new one.

Seth is amazing. That replay looked so good, and also good job on the part of the wrestlers there to break his fall. That takes a lot of trust.

My one criticism would be that I felt that Seth didn't play as great of a face in peril as I thought he could have, which is surprising. Dean does a great job at that (Seth usually does too), which is even more surprising to me. 

Fun match.



The good thing about *Bray/Cena* is that I think that it's doing a great job of making Cena even more of a rootable face to kids. They always root for him, but I feel like they're gonna be even more invested in him taking down the big, bad, monster than they usually are in most of his feuds.

I read in another thread that the boy sitting in Bray's lap on Monday night was Harper's son. Was that the same boy tonight? I assume so. For some reason, that makes me enjoy it even more. I feel it comes off as less hokey knowing that it's someone really connected to them. I don't know why. 

Maybe because it's amusing to me to think of how that little boy must be feeling behind the scenes, and what they say to him before they go out there, lol. The look he gave when Bray hugged him was just precious.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The problem with cage matches, especially ones where you can also pin or make submit, is that there are so many opportunities to just walk out of the door. It's hard to suspend logic in that case, though I find it much easier to suspend when there's not a pin or submit option.

I think the reason why it was less annoying in this case, was because it fits Bray's character. He doesn't really care about winning, so it makes sense why he'd rather stay in there just to bring the monster out of Cena, and/or to just play mindgames with him.

When he started randomly going around the ring and touching the cage with the tip of hands, almost like a child, that showed that he didn't really give a shit. That's why I was able to not just be like "JUST WALK OUT OF THE FREAKIN' DOOR!" during other parts.

lol at him doing his backwards walk to the door.


@ rep - Yeah, I thought that *Kane/Bryan* was fun, and I'm so thankful that it wasn't just Kane beating up Bryan 90% of the time, and wearing down a body part. It's great that this was a stipulation match. Made it more fun than I thought it had any right to be.

I like that it kept going on and on. I felt if it ended after the forklift part, it'd be kind of corny, even though that flying headbutt was cool. I loved when Kane caught Bryan with the chokeslam, when Bryan was going for the running knee.

Most importantly, I like that they still made Kane look strong and remorseless throughout. I LOVED the way it ended, though I'm sure that's just being done to extend the feud. But in any event, that's how a strong opponent should look coming out of a match like this, if you want to really build multiple stars at once. I don't know why the WWE can't get it right like that more often.

lmao at the botch of seeing the guy running in with the extinguisher even before Kane got out the gasoline. Also, it would have been better if we didn't see the gasoline under the ring first, but oh well.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

*EXTREME RULES 2014:*

Rob Van Dam vs. Jack Swagger vs. Cesaro - ***1/2*
Alexander Rusev vs. R-Truth & Xavier Woods - *3/4**
Bad News Barrett vs. Big E - ****
The Shield vs. Evolution - ******
John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt - ****
Paige vs. Tamina - **3/4*
Daniel Bryan vs. Kane - *****

A few notes...

-- Big E desperately needs a reset on his character. No one gives a fuck about him.

-- The Shield vs. Evolution started off straight up wrestling, which was good stuff, and then into a wild brawl which was made more unique by going through the crowd where they did. Rare in WWE which makes it awesome when it happens. Rollins spot was fucking awesome. Reminded me off Jeff Hardy at the Rumble in 2000 without the tables, obviously. Reigns mini seizure before the spear or whatever it was was funny too. Side note, Evolution's t-shirts are atrocious. Also, storyline wise, I hope this wasn't a one-off, but with Batista taking time off, unless they get a younger wrestler to replace Batista in Evolution, I think it may be over with. Of course, you can turn Sheamus heel and slot him in there.

-- Cena vs. Wyatt was just bad, imo. I enjoyed their Wrestlemania bout (***1/2), but this was just bad. Slow and it became comical. Cena overpowering BOTH Harper and Rowan with the struggle at the door? It ended up becoming a 3-on-1 handicap match. Isn't the point of a cage to keep outside interference out (yeah, it's WWE, I know). And then the child. fpalm The segment on Raw was great, it was eerie, but to have a child play a part in the match and distort his voice for more bad Cena acting. Ugh.

-- Bryan vs. Kane was hard for me to judge because there was pretty much no wrestling, it was just a brawl around the arena. It was fun for what it was. I think the diving headbutt off the forklift would have been a nice ending with the way the crowd was responding, but it's fine. Kane may have just set the sides of the table on fire, but it was still a great visual and props to him for taking the bump through the flaming table.

Fun event all-in-all. I didn't watch Torito vs. Hornswoggle but actually heard the second half was pretty fun.



TaylorFitz said:


> I really liked that PPV a lot. Bryan/Kane and Shield/Evolution really delivered.
> 
> Cena/Wyatt is a good example of why having a cage match where you can win by escape is stupid. After seeing that I was left with the impression that the combined IQ of Cena, Harper, Rowan, and Wyatt was about 24. Cena tried to escape the cage over and over when he knew that he couldn't because of Harper and Rowan being outside. But Harper and Rowan were just so damn stupid. Rowan couldn't seem to comprehend that he could just walk into the cage and beat up Cena. Why wouldn't they all just run into the cage at the same time since the door was open the whole time and there was no DQ? I was so annoyed because I was into the match when things started out and they could have had a good match but went and ruined it with just horrible logic in how everyone acted.


This too. Logic in a steel cage is nonexistent.


----------



## The 'Jake' (Mar 5, 2007)

Shield vs. Evolution is a MOTYC without a doubt in my mind imo. I liked it better than the very good Wyatts/Shield trilogy.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Personally, I don't think anything will touch The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family from Elimination Chamber, but you never know. We still got 7 more months of wrestling to go.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Just watched Evolution/Shield. Wow. I said in the build up to the show that I didn't have very high expectations for this match. Boy did they prove me wrong. Completely awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson vs Kane was AWESOME. That's all I got. Other than going ape when Barrett owned the knob.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

El Torito vs Hornswoggle WeeLC: *****
Swagger vs Cesaro vs RVD Triple Threat Elimination: ***1/2
Rusev vs Woods/R-Truth Handicap: DUD
Shield vs Evolution: ****1/4
Wyatt vs Cena Steel Cage: DUD
Paige vs Tamina: *3/4
Bryan vs Kane Extreme Rules: **3/4


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bryan/Kane didn't quite do it for me. I think me being pretty tired and not feeling well may have factored into that though. They did plenty of good stuff (some shitty looking stuff too) but I never really got into it the way I did with Evolution/Shield. I'll probably re-watch both matches tomorrow. Not sure if I care enough to watch anything else on the show. Maybe Cena/Wyatt so I can see it for myself but it sounds awful which doesn't surprise me since it's a WWE cage match. Cesaro makes me want to watch the triple threat, RVD does the opposite.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Extreme Rules

weeLC match - really good
Swagger/RVD/Cesar - really good
Handicap match - ok
Barrett/Big E - ok
Shield/Evolution - great
Cena/Wyatt - great
Paige/Tamina - dud
Bryan/Kane - great

Can't pick a match of the night between Shield/Evolution & Bryan/Kane.
Surprise of the night goes to the weeLC match with Wyatts/Cena as a close second.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

*Extreme Rules 2014*
Baby Bull/Hornswoggle: a million stars
Swagger/Cesaro/RVD: two and a half stars
Rusev squashing black guys
Shield/Evolution: FOUR STARS
Wyatt/Cena: a few small stars
Paige/Tamina: what
Bryan/Kane: a blue star

Pre-Show as the GOAT. Shield/Evolution was exactly what I predicted and I loved it. Don't know if it's better than Wyatt/Shield I but maybe. Wyatt/Cena had the same problems most cage matches had. Fast forwarded through most of it so I dunno if it was as bad as everyone's saying. Didn't seem that way. Bryan/Kane was heaps of fun but I thought Kane was bit lacking in his wrestling role. Once the backstage stuff started, he found his form. The fire table spot could've done with a better sequence but owell.

Entertaining show.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Edge/Kane LMS (***1/4) - Edge's awful toying of the ten count really boggled it down for me and Edge in general too, a complete Kane-show.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Excellent promo from WCW for Ric Flair:

Ric Flair Career Retrospective (WCW Saturday Night) (10.15.1994)

x1t4tcv


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Torito/Swaggle - ********
3-Way - ***1/2
Barrett/Big E - ***1/4
Evolution/Shield - ****3/4
Cena/Wyatt - DUD
Kane/Bryan - ***1/2 (I need a rewatch because I wasn't in the mood after the depressing cage match)

Overall a very good show, could've been as good as EC if Cena/Wyatt wasn't so bad.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

*Extreme Rules 2014*

Hornswoggle/El Torito- ****3/4 (may we have a rematch please?)
Cesaro/Swagger/RVD- ***1/4
Rusev/Truth&Woods- N/A
Barret/Big. E- **3/4
Evolution/Shield- ****1/2 not as good as the Shield/Wyatts match, but still awesome
Cena/Wyatt- **1/4 didn't hate it, but didn't like it either
Paige/Tamina- **
Kane/Bryan- ****1/4, I loved this, don't ask me why, but I loved it


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ER as a whole didn't do it for me. Shield/Evolution was the best of the night easily, but even that had it's issues that kept it down. Hornswoggle/Torito was the biggest surprise of the night... super fun match. Everything else was kinda just there. Even the triple threat was kinda just there, despite me thinking it was very good. I barely remember it now that I think about. I'm gonna re-watch Bryan/Kane now and see if I get anything more out of it. Even if it ends up being a great match, I'd still probably only settle on this PPV being "average".


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I fell asleep during Bray/Cena and woke up three hours later. LOL. 

I quite liked the opener at bit. Trash can was pretty random. If they had used more weapons, it might have been fine, but whatever. 

Shield/Evolution was great for me. Gave Shield a HUGE rub (seriously who haven't they gone over?). Saw some people complaining about Reigns/Batista just laying there for the like the last 5 minutes but the focus at that point was on what was going on in the crowd with the other four, so it made sense. 

Barrett winning the strap :mark: :mark:

Going back to watch the six man, and the rest of the show in a bit.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Bad News Barrett :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I liked most of the 6 man, even before the super hot tag at the end and all the chaos that followed.

Hated the main event. Urgh. Just felt so dead and flat. Should have been a straight up match, then we MIGHT have gotten something halfway near Kane/Benoit at least. The shitty weapons crap just ruins most matches these days. Flaming table spot was even terrible. Didn't help that a) we saw it coming a mile away when Kane gets the table out and some dude RUNS into frame with a fucking fire extinguisher and b) the middle part of the table WASN'T EVEN ON FIRE. Hated the forklift spot too. Forklifts in wrestling have only worked twice; once when Foley pinned the Rock with it, and again when Lesnar used it to beat Show in a stretcher match.

Rest of the show was blargh. The pre-show match was legit MOTN :lmao. That's kinda awesome tbh.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I thought the ME was a fun brawl, maybe that will change on the rewatch

Flaming table spot blew 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Danielson vs Kane was AWESOME. That's all I got. Other than going ape when Barrett owned the knob.


So... did you not like Shield/Evolution?



Saint Dick said:


> Bryan/Kane didn't quite do it for me. I think me being pretty tired and not feeling well may have factored into that though. They did plenty of good stuff (some shitty looking stuff too) but I never really got into it the way I did with Evolution/Shield. I'll probably re-watch both matches tomorrow. Not sure if I care enough to watch anything else on the show. Maybe Cena/Wyatt so I can see it for myself but it sounds awful which doesn't surprise me since it's a WWE cage match. Cesaro makes me want to watch the triple threat, RVD does the opposite.


Cesaro does enough to make the triple threat fun and RVD actually made it better. It was a fun opener. The only reason to watch Cena/Wyatt is for the laughs... or pure frustration and annoyance.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That Shield/Evolution 6 Man made the entire night worth it. I loved the story they went for, how Evolution was trying to stick to old school tag wrestling and using their experience to isolate and punish the Shield. Then they slip on the proverbial banana peel and all hell breaks loose with the Shield fantastic baby face fire and all that crazyness inside and outside the ring. I loved it, truly loved that match. Think it's definitely on par with the Elimination Chamber match. Seth Rollins was the star of the night, just like in that Chamber match, but really Ambrose was great and Reigns did exactly what the crowd wanted to see. I like how they kept Roman on the sidelines in the beginning for the most part so when he finally tagged in, the crowd was dying to see him and he just exploded with those Superman punches. 

How great is the Shield? I wish they could just stay as a unit forever, as they are simply incapable of having a bad match when they are together. All their strengths mesh together so well and they have PHENOMENAL chemistry with each other.

I gave it ****1/2 on my first watch. Gonna give it and Bryan/Kane another watch when I get home from work to give my final thoughts.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*One match show but that match was awesome after the hot tag. Everything before that was ok but forgettable, then Reigns got the hot tag and those 3 guys started looking like SUPERSTARS. Reigns might be one of the most fun guys off a hot tag I've ever seen. Ambrose is seriously rockin it as a babyface. I think Mike said he'd be an awesome babyface one day so nice call. Rollins still takes wacky as shit bumps and they still rule. WWE camera work these days is often pretty shoddy in terms of catching spots but that actually worked in their favour here. The Rollins dive looked like it came out of nowhere in a brilliant crash and burn style, as did the Ambrose dive. Brawling in the crowd was actually fun for once even if it was just for one spot. Shield going over made me smile. It's pretty amazing how perfectly they continue to book these guys. And yet then they fuck just about everything else up. 2nd half was better than The Wyatt Family match imo but the first half wasn't.

Rest of the show sucked. WeeLC match was something else though. It was stupid, offensive, needlessly dangerous but also entertaining as hell. 3MB and The Colons were taking original TLC style bumps in a pre-show match involving Hornswoggle which was so odd. The Mahal bump looked so dangerous with that ladder right above where his head landed. Drew took a bump only a lunatic would and it looked awesome. Mini commentators were hilarious. I absolutely lost it when they said they get the network half the price. I skipped the entrances at first and the commentary was confusing as fuck until I went back. Hornswoggle doing the HBK dive through the mini announce table was hilarious. This was totally nuts but also better than Bryan Danielson's first PPV main event as WWE Champion.

3 way sucked and was a horrible way to attempt to showcase Cesaro. I don't think anyone including myself and Cole knew it was an elimination match so the first pin was confusing as hell. RVD is really horrible. He had a 10 minute singles match with Cesaro that sucked which is incredible. He does so much stupid shit that disconnects you from the match. Skipped most of the undercard apart from that. Cena/Wyatt might have been the worst match I've ever seen if you factor in quality of wrestlers and place on the card. I hate Cage matches and most of us here hate at least WWE Cage matches for the same reason so there's no need to rant about that. Cena constantly climbing up and then back down because Harper or Rowan were stood below was stupid. Just jump on top of them and you not only take them down because there's this thing called gravity and velocity but you also win the match. The guy climbs over the cage but then climbs back in when his opponent touches him shit is always stupid. Climbing over the Cage when you can just walk out the door is so stupid. I didn't pay much attention to the build but surely the idea of a Cage match is either to cut out interference or stop one guy from running away. Wyatt dudes got in the ring anyway and Cena clearly didn't want to punish Bray in there because he kept trying to escape. Bray did a load of stupid shit too like doing the weird crawl towards the door and then trying to rush out when he got closer. Most annoying thing was how often Cena had Bray beat. Must have been double figures. Made Bray look useless without Harper and Rowan and killed the Rumble match where he won clean all on his own. Finish had me in a fit of giggles. I assumed a new Wyatt guy was coming because that would have made sense if Bray is converting people but instead we get a miming kid and the story that THE CHILDREN ARE TURNING ON CENA. Crowds are ruining Bray quite a bit for me now. I've talked about why before. It means there's no heat for Bray matches now which is a terrible thing compared to what he was doing vs Bryan and The Shield when he had heat. Hopefully it's just a Cena thing but I think now it's started it won't stop. Also kayfabe wise the fans are morons because they're following this guy who is speaking heel nonsense that isn't true. 

Main event really bothered me. Bryan as the champion and going on last means shit when he's booked in midcard style matches with midcard wrestlers. This was exactly what Hardcore Title matches used to be like. Now I love it when it's Kane/Show/Raven in an undercard match at Mania X7 because that's I want and expect at that level of the card. When you do it here it sucks though. They know Kane can't work a main event singles match so this shit was the cover for it. Which begs the question why even put Kane in there when Sheamus is on the pre-show panel. Forklift truck spot was horrible because it's undercard geek shtick. Bryan is clearly a natural forklift driver though. I chuckled at him turning off the ignition after like an efficient forklift driver would do. Also Bryan was incredible lucky the boot of that car was up and there was actually a wrench hidden underneath a load of other stuff in there. I hope Toyota paid them a lot for the blatant forklift plug because they wasted a ton of money needlessly busting up cars and throwing a massive TV into a box of water. WHAT WAS THE POINT IN WASTING A PERFECTLY GOOD TV LIKE THAT? Fire finish was horrificly spoiled because the two fire extinguisher guys ran into the shot with their extinguishers. Plus burning table spots are so 1990s. Bryan won but looked anything but like a champion or a winner.*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Whether you liked the show or not, how fuckin sexy are Lana and Paige though right??? :woolcock Two of the best looking women I've seen come into the company in a few years now. With makeup on at least.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Lana with that Vladimir Putin heat :banderas :banderas

I dug the show for the most part. WeeLC was way more fun than it had any business being, Shield vs Evolution was awesome, triple threat was so-so but liked some of the stuff Cesaro did, and liked Bryan vs Kane too.

Cena vs Wyatt was garbage though.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

The Cena/Wyatt match just flat out made no sense lol, pissed me off more as I thought about it last night


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Good to see more people disliking the main-event. I thought I was almost alone with my view when I posted earlier about not caring for it. 

And holy shit at this: 










Saw this posted in another thread as I never watch the pre-show (and would never watch a Hornswoggle match anyway ) but that's crazy. Most extreme thing on the show. :lol



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Whether you liked the show or not, how fuckin sexy are Lana and Paige though right??? :woolcock Two of the best looking women I've seen come into the company in a few years now. With makeup on at least.


Lana definitely. She's looks so hot with her banging body in those tight business suits. :banderas She and Eva are the two hottest divas in the company easily imo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Didnt see the COMPLETE match upped, so here it is for those interested:

Jushin Liger vs Koji Kanemoto (NJPW 02.16.1997) 

WON rating: ****3/4

x1t5n6t


----------



## RealManRegal (Dec 11, 2013)

Enjoyed Extreme Rules, the 6 man tag was my MOTN despite what I thought was a bit of a patchy start in terms of pacing but once they kicked into gear it was top notch.

I'm not a big fan of WWE's cage matches in general as I've always thought the only way to win should be going over the top; so any attempts to build suspense with pinfalls or door escapes end up killing things. I'm enjoying their storyline for the most part aside from a couple of Cena hiccups (like the donkey thing last week) but I started nodding off during their match, and from what I saw and what others have said it seems like they tried so hard to protect Cena but in doing so just made him look like an idiot and made the Wyatt's look weak as a unit.

I actually quite dug the ending in a cheesy way - like I said I was nodding off, but when the Wyatt graphic/noise hit as Cena was making his way out of the door it woke me up again.

I enjoyed Bryan/Kane for what it was and I think they did the most with what they had - Kane is really not at main event level and hasn't been for a long time, but I enjoyed this more than any match I've seen him in from the past few years, and more than I usually enjoy extreme rules/hardcore matches.

The forklift was a bit cheesy and you could hear the crowd starting to boo it until Bryan climbed up and hit the headbutt which seemed to save things. Shame they screwed up the table ending with the visible fire extinguisher guys, table only lit in 2 places and the OTT aftermath.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Well alright, I'll definitely need to watch that WeeLC match :lmao

Didn't really enjoy the show. But then again I skipped large chucks of it. 

The 6-man had my attention (and was really surprised it went on so early) and it delivered. Nowhere near as good as the Wyatt/Shield match at EC but still good. The final 5 or so minutes were insane. Reigns needs to add to his moveset drastically. Comes in off the hot tag, and does clothesline. After clothesline. After clothesline.

The cage match was fucking stupid. It was like watching Austin vs. Vince, Patterson & Briscoe and made the Wyatts look no better than in the ring of fire match at Summerslam. Bray wins sure, but looks weak as ass in the victory.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Am I right to think this is the first time in Ambrose's career that he's face? Because he's absolutely killing it!

Also that Jinder spot was fucking insane. Kind of wish Torito/Hornswoggle made the main show because it was loads of fun.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Maybe he was a face in CZW for a time but if he was it was before he started getting noticed. 

I agree on him killing it as a face. I think the best way to describe him at times is if you were to get into a fight with a starving, insane homeless person and the winner got a trip to the buffet that Ambrose at times fights just like you would expect the homeless person to fight. He just comes across like a legit lunatic at times and it's great to watch.

The Shield made great heels but I think they might be better in the ring as faces because it lets each guy be more of themselves in the ring. Ambrose can act like a lunatic, Rollins can do all of his cool looking offense, and Reigns can just be a badass and make for the GOAT hot tag. I honestly can't think of a better 3 person dynamic that you can have in a team. They mesh together so well but they are 3 totally different wrestlers.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TaylorFitz said:


> Maybe he was a face in CZW for a time but if he was it was before he started getting noticed.
> 
> I agree on him killing it as a face. I think the best way to describe him at times is if you were to get into a fight with a starving, insane homeless person and the winner got a trip to the buffet that Ambrose at times fights just like you would expect the homeless person to fight. He just comes across like a legit lunatic at times and it's great to watch.
> 
> The Shield made great heels but I think they might be better in the ring as faces because it lets each guy be more of themselves in the ring. Ambrose can act like a lunatic, Rollins can do all of his cool looking offense, and Reigns can just be a badass and make for the GOAT hot tag. I honestly can't think of a better 3 person dynamic that you can have in a team. They mesh together so well but they are 3 totally different wrestlers.




Man I agree 1000% with everything you just said.

Ambrose comes off like a complete fucking lunatic, but in the absolute best and most awesome way possible. He makes me giddy every single time he shoots one of those take downs and just dives on the guy throwing wild punches to their head and upper body. I am totally seeing why everyone was all over Ambrose when he first got called up. Honestly he didn't do much for me when the Shield started, but now I totally love the guy and think he's fantastic as a character and as a worker. My favorite moment of his was in that Elimination Chamber match, when all hell was breaking loose, Ambrose just lunges at Bray and takes him over the barricade while throwing those wild crazy punches all the while they are tumbling over.

You are also so totally right about the Shield being even better baby faces than they were as heels. That's high praise because I thought they were superb heels. All the guys are just too like able and good, it's hard to hate a group that has such wonderful chemistry with each other and always has each other's backs. Reigns just comes in and straight DEMOLISHES fools with those super man punches and spears, Ambrose works one fucking awesome FIP segment, and Rollins is the best of the bunch. He sells excellently for opponents offense, bumps around like Ziggler on speed, and has some awesomely brutal looking kicks and offense.

I really couldn't be more impressed with all 3 guys. They rule, plain and simple. No one in the WWE can follow a Shield 6 man tag. Those guys are just too good, they have single handedly raised the bar for tag team excellence in the WWE. Right now they are almost untouchable in my eyes as a unit.

And the best part? They have barely a year and a half worth of main roster experience. They WILL be getting even better, you can take that to the bank.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just quick thoughts on the PPV

-Thought Bryan/Kane was amazing, loved it will need to re-watch it. Bryan's brawling is pretty underrated around here, most cream for his technical ability but he is phenomenal in that aspect also. The brawling all around and the forklift didnt bother me as it fit the feud and the history between these two

The 6 man is interesting because there was truly 3 facets of the match, the first being as something was off a bit not sure will have to watch it again, then the middle was solid and than the frantic brawling around the arena + Rollins flying


Cena/Wyatt was horrid, tried to give it the benefit but I couldn't, so gimmicky and soo stupid with all the overbooking 



everything else sucked, the midget thing was funny though


Edit: RVD is the biggest piece of shit ever, a worse wrestler than kofi kingston


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm not sure where all this RVD hate is coming from. He's not great or anything but he definitely doesn't suck and he's nowhere near Kofi levels. Sorry folks I ain't buying it. I loved RVD/Jericho from last summer, love just about all the RVD/Eddie matches, love his match with Jerry Lynn in ECW, love his match with Brock at Vengeance, love RVD/Taker at Vengeance, and I'm sure there are others. My point is, all those matches are a shit load better than anything Kofi has ever done. RVD can still have a decent match and that triple threat last night, while not great, was still very good IMO and definitely had me entertained.

The guy definitely has some star power, he can still go reasonably well, and he's putting over all the young guys. What is there to hate?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Shield/Evolution ruled the earth. Damn. First half was slow but I was engrossed for the whole thing. It's a very different match from the Wyatt match earlier this year and that was reflected in the story. Evolution working old school and doing to the Shield what we've seen the Shield do to others so many times with the frequent tags and isolation tactics. Then the tide turns, all hell breaks loose and we get the war we were promised. The brawling on the outside was just :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:. Absolute chaos and it is a trait distinctly SHIELD. There are no words for the finishing stretch and I'll be damned that the Shield actually went over! I guess it really was just a one time deal. Fantastic match. Ambrose, Orton and Hunter all played a fantastic supporting cast but I think this was a Rollins showcase. Reigns and Batista didn't do anywhere near as much as the others but they served their purpose. I can't wait to watch this again, maybe later tonight if I get a chance. *****1/2* But my gut tells me Shield/Wyatts is better. I just need to watch them both again to make up my mind. 

Bryan/Kane was a very Attitude Era-esque style brawl. I enjoyed it during the live viewing because I couldn't believe they were actually doing half the shit they were doing. I loved that nothing felt forced. The 2 of them were just grabbing whatever came to hand and beating the tar out of each other. But I don't think I'll like it as much on second watch when the shock factor is gone. Still fun though. I was hoping Bryan would get somebody else for Payback but it looks like this set to go 1 more time. Stick another gimmick on it and I'll be fine with it I guess. ****1/2*

Cena/Wyatt............................. fpalm. Damn you John, you make it really hard to be a fan of you some times. This was pretty much insufferable. I rarely get legit angry at wrestling but I left the room during this because I was getting frustrated. Stupid match. Stupid fucking Cena booking. Stupid outcome. Both guys come out of this looking like absolute retards and just fuck that. Horrible. I feel like going on a Cena rant but I I'll save that for another thread. I'm not even going to bother rating this because I just hated it that much. Such a shame too after their awesome Mania match which I loved. 

Solid enough PPV but overall I found the majority of it fun to watch so I guess that's what matters. Shield/Evolution is a MOTYC for sure. Raw should be fun. 

:batista4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I have to say, I am slightly surprised Dave has taken two pinfalls tbh. Guess we'll see tonight if he is working Payback too.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> Shield/Evolution ruled the earth. Damn. First half was slow but I was engrossed for the whole thing. It's a very different match from the Wyatt match earlier this year and that was reflected in the story. Evolution working old school and doing to the Shield what we've seen the Shield do to others so many times with the frequent tags and isolation tactics. Then the tide turns, all hell breaks loose and we get the war we were promised. The brawling on the outside was just :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:. Absolute chaos and it is a trait distinctly SHIELD. There are no words for the finishing stretch and I'll be damned that the Shield actually went over! I guess it really was just a one time deal. Fantastic match. Ambrose, Orton and Hunter all played a fantastic supporting cast but I think this was a Rollins showcase. Reigns and Batista didn't do anywhere near as much as the others but they served their purpose. I can't wait to watch this again, maybe later tonight if I get a chance. *****1/2* But my gut tells me Shield/Wyatts is better. I just need to watch them both again to make up my mind.
> 
> Bryan/Kane was a very Attitude Era-esque style brawl. I enjoyed it during the live viewing because I couldn't believe they were actually doing half the shit they were doing. I loved that nothing felt forced. The 2 of them were just grabbing whatever came to hand and beating the tar out of each other. But I don't think I'll like it as much on second watch when the shock factor is gone. Still fun though. I was hoping Bryan would get somebody else for Payback but it looks like this set to go 1 more time. Stick another gimmick on it and I'll be fine with it I guess. ****1/2*
> 
> ...


I'm with you on those match ratings more or less. I got a very Attitude Era like feeling from Bryan/Kane. I don't really understand why people are so down on the match when it did it's job perfectly. Kane lost but the punishment he took and the way he got up right after the pinfall still makes him look like a monster that Bryan was lucky to beat. Bryan on the other hand looks like a badass because he was able to hang in there with Kane for so long but there is still the feeling that he got lucky in winning that match. 

Yeah, Cena/Wyatt was one of the few times in recent memory when I was angry watching a match just because of how they were working the match. It's one thing when there is a crazy spot fest with random moves and no story. I can deal with that because the guys in the ring clearly don't care about doing anything other than a bunch of crazy moves. But Cena/Wyatt wasn't like that at all because there was a story to tell and one that could have been told in an interesting way but was instead told in a way that just made everyone look stupid. I feel like I'm obligated to go back and watch the Bret/Owen or Punk/Hardy cage match so I can see an example of a match where the guys try to escape but do so in an intelligent manner. What makes the match even more aggravating was the fact that I was invested in the outcome and had this conflicting feeling of being so annoyed with how stupid the match was and also wanting to see who would win the match anyway.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Looks like they'll do Bryan/Kane once more for payback. I hope it's not a buried alive match though, those are never anything good. Would love a Bryan/Kane last man standing match instead. 

I feel their ER match was their best at ***3/4. Didn't expect to see all the shit they did. Was awesome to see. Too bad the commentary absolutely fucking SUCKED during Kane/Bryan. Shield/Evolution was MOTN here. Got that at a full 4 stars.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Evolution vs The Shield (Extreme Rules 2014)*

So finished rewatching it and now I got to see the entire match as I was away for the first 5 minutes because I didn't expect WWE to fuck me over by having the match so early. Starts off cool just like an old school tag match with the heels working over the faces. The Shield are excellent faces and work just as well here as they did being the heels. Evolution haven't lost their touch when it comes to awesome tag work and I enjoyed their control segment. Reigns gets the hot tag to clean house and shit just goes off after that as it's chaos and bodies flying everywhere. A few finishers hit and couple of nearfalls for Evolution then Reigns & Batista are left alone in the ring as the other four take it to the crowd. Great brawl there until Rollins steals the show with that awesome RVD/Taker-esque jump from the stands. I got so excited when Batista countered Reigns with the spinebuster since I'm an Evolution mark and that comes first. Reigns counters the powerbomb attempt with a superman punch that Batista sells like a champ which is followed by the spear and Shield win it just like that.

Awesome action throughout the match and everyone serves their purpose here. Although I think the 5 minute rest the big guys of the teams had was a bit overkill and would've worked better if it was a Falls Count Anywhere so they could've exit the ring and fought there instead of just laying around. Doesn't matter since the match still rules, though. Everyone was good but Rollins is the star of this one. That missed suicide dive looked deadly and the crossbody in the crowd speaks for itself. I loved it as much this time but even as an Evolution mark that doesn't care for the Wyatts, I think the Elimination Chamber tag is superior. ★★★★¼


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TaylorFitz said:


> I'm with you on those match ratings more or less. I got a very Attitude Era like feeling from Bryan/Kane. I don't really understand why people are so down on the match when it did it's job perfectly. Kane lost but the punishment he took and the way he got up right after the pinfall still makes him look like a monster that Bryan was lucky to beat. Bryan on the other hand looks like a badass because he was able to hang in there with Kane for so long but there is still the feeling that he got lucky in winning that match.
> 
> Yeah, Cena/Wyatt was one of the few times in recent memory when I was angry watching a match just because of how they were working the match. It's one thing when there is a crazy spot fest with random moves and no story. I can deal with that because the guys in the ring clearly don't care about doing anything other than a bunch of crazy moves. But Cena/Wyatt wasn't like that at all because there was a story to tell and one that could have been told in an interesting way but was instead told in a way that just made everyone look stupid. I feel like I'm obligated to go back and watch the Bret/Owen or Punk/Hardy cage match so I can see an example of a match where the guys try to escape but do so in an intelligent manner. What makes the match even more aggravating was the fact that I was invested in the outcome and had this conflicting feeling of being so annoyed with how stupid the match was and also wanting to see who would win the match anyway.




That's the thing man, a Cage match based around the escape CAN be done right. Yes, I definitely prefer a bloody struggle and fight to the death like we got with Hunter vs Flair, but they absolutely can work an escape story and still make it believable and interesting. Obviously Bret/Owen is the prime example of this, as was Punk/Hardy and even Eddie/Rey was a solid cage match based around escaping (though it finally ended in a pin fall). I just really don't understand the logic of booking that match that way. Nobody benefitted. Cena ends up looking like a total idiot-if he really wanted to escape he should have just climbed up top, held onto the side, and dropped over. Rowan couldn't stop that, Harper couldn't stop that. And Bray just ended up looking like a glorified manager. We all know Bray is so much more than that, but damn I feel they might have done real damage to him with that match.


I've been thinking, and I think what Bray really needs is one of those sit down interviews with Jim Ross, like the one Mankind did in 1997. There are just so many unanswered questions about Bray that need some explaining and can really help him as a character. I'm not saying they pull back the curtain entirely, as he does need to keep some mystery about him. But imagine if they had Bray in character explaining his mission in the WWE, why he's here, how he became the way he is, all that good stuff. That could be some seriously compelling television and would help his character tremendously. All good heels need to feel justified in their actions, Michael Hayes has been known to say that and it's 100% true. Bray needs to present the justification and motivation behind his actions, no matter oh far fetched. In fact, the more outlandish his justification, the better, as that can give him some heat. The point is, he is in desperate need of a stated purpose IMO.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank goodness I rewatched Bryan/Kane. Everything, especially the forklift spot looked so much better in this second watch. Pacing was real nice too. Just absolute fun. Bryan hasn't had a single match below three stars since probably Royal Rumble 2013. If you go back even further, it will probably go all the way to WM 28. That headbutt spot :lenny


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

All of the COTC shows are now on the network :moyes1


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> All of the COTC shows are now on the network :moyes1


Oh. My. God.


The WWE Network is seriously one of the greatest inventions of the 21st century. HD streams for every PPV match ever held in the US, that's a damn near orgasmic premise. Now that they are adding COTC, and eventually Nitros, my god. I can't live without this thing.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Tbf I've never liked RVD, even when he was "good", and he is a shell of that form now so I definitely dont want to see him on my TV. Someone said something before, he just takes my interest away from the match within 10 mins , become so disinterested


Re-Watched the Main event, still holds up pretty fun match, marked with the flaming table spot


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah Im gonna go through and start watching all of the COTC shows, have only seen a handful of them so should be a fun project 

Watching the original clash now, oh no, this means I have to sit through Sting/Flair again :deandre


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Sting/Flair rules. 

* Although i appreciate peoples' complaints about the match structure.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I think that match and Flair/Steamboat are the only two Clash matches I have seen up to this point


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Asked this in the classic thread but how should I watch the clashes? I'm doing a chronological order of PPVS on the network, should I watch the clashes that go with the PPVS?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I watched that WeeLC match... that was fucking awesome. Seriously, I had no idea it'd be as good as it was, the action including Matadores and 3MB, plus the commentary was fucking hilarious and just added to it. That Mahal bump :mark:

I think I can safely give it a ****1/2* rating and not feel about it. So fucking fun.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Whether you liked the show or not, how fuckin sexy are Lana and Paige though right??? :woolcock Two of the best looking women I've seen come into the company in a few years now. With makeup on at least.


My two loves. :woolcock



Brye said:


> Am I right to think this is the first time in Ambrose's career that he's face? Because he's absolutely killing it!
> 
> Also that Jinder spot was fucking insane. Kind of wish Torito/Hornswoggle made the main show because it was loads of fun.


I think before this, the closest he got was a tweener, but yeah, he's killing it as a face and plays face in peril really well too when he does. The Shield as babyfaces are fucking awesome. I'm so happy the plug was pulled on a break up on the RTWM and they were kept together. Hopefully they continue and don't break up for a while because there's still a lot of places this can go.

One of the greatest stables in WWE history at this point? Their work quality in their amount of time is really impressive.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Spoiler: RAW



20 man Battle Royale for the US. Title today


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I did start to watch the Pre-Show match, did the match cut away for an advert or something in the middle?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Yeah Im gonna go through and start watching all of the COTC shows, have only seen a handful of them so should be a fun project
> 
> Watching the original clash now, oh no, this means I have to sit through Sting/Flair again :deandre



Dude skip that for now, go to Clash of the Champions XIX and watch Miracle Violence Connection (Bam Bam Gordy and Dr, Death) vs The Steiner Bros. Then report back on your thoughts. I want someone else's opinion so I know if I'm crazy or not. Personally, I think it's right up there, top 5 atleast, for best Tag Team matches in US wrestling history. It's just PHENOMENAL.

After that, I'm gonna watch the Clash in 1993 with Vader vs Flair, haven't seen that one yet but I flat out adore their Starrcade matchup.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Extreme Rules ratings:

RVD vs Cesaro vs Jack Swagger ***1/2*

Alexnader Russev vs R-truth and Xavier Woods ***

Bad News Barrett vs Big E Langston *****

The Shield vs Evolution ****1/2*

John Cena vs Bray Wyatt ***

Paige vs Tamina ****

Daniel Bryan vs Kane ****1/2*

-Cena/Wyatt was just horrible. At one point it became a 3 on 1 handicap and still Wyatt couldn't overcome Super-Cena. It eventually took three deranged hillbillies and some kid to put the Superman of WWE down (Y)

It's a shame really cause I enjoyed their Mania match a lot. For whatever reason, WWE insists on booking all Cena cage matches like this and it's just complete bullshit.

-Shield vs Evolution wasn't as epic as Shield/Wyatts and it seemed as if the crowd just didn't give a fuck tbh. The crowd may have hurt this one. Oh well, things came together so well by the end and the match was all sorts of jizz. ROLLINS!!!!! :mark: :mark: :mark:

-Main event was fun given that this feud was put together with no explanation whatsoever. I found that the finish went into overbook territory a little. Imo, Bryan should have gotten the win after the headbutt (it looked really cool) but they just had to get the table spot in there. Hey, I won't complain about fire in today's environment. If I'm not mistaken, that was the first fire spot since 2006. I was really shocked to see it happen. Although, the cameraman picked up the guy running with the fire extinguisher before Kane could even get the gas. Still a fun match though and great way to close the show.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> I did start to watch the Pre-Show match, did the match cut away for an advert or something in the middle?


Yup :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5m1wAiuSQjXBb7pmXB

WeeLC match .

Watching some MEMPHIS shit :mark:. LAWLER. FUNK. DIRTY DUTCH.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DoubtGin said:


> Yup :side:


I know its not the most important match in the world, but still.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF reviews Extreme Rules 2014*

Hornswoggle/Torito: ***1/4
---------------------------------
RVD/Swagger/Cesaro: ***1/2
Truth & Woods/Rusev: *1/2
Big E/Barrett: **1/2
Shield/Evolution: ****1/4
Cena/Wyatt: 1/4*
Paige/Tamina: *1/4
Bryan/Kane: ***3/4

- Hornswoggle/Torito was, on a technical aspect, fucking terrible. However, the entertainment was to such a HYSTERICAL degree that I couldn't just give it anything of a _small_ rating (8*D). Plus, Micro Cole plugging the WWE App was the greatest comedy thing the WWE has done since Bookdust. Oh, and it was absolute sick bump pandemonium and I was loving it. Torito rules. And Drew rules.

- The Triple Threat was the Cesaro Show if anything. Swagger gave a great showing for how short it was. RVD didn't look bad I guess. But this was the absolute Cesaro Show. And Cesaro wasn't even that well showcased. Still, very good. Just wish it was a proper Triple Threat, that way Swagger would've been there for longer. Much longer. A good 5-10 minutes longer.

- The Rusev squash was surprisingly entertaining. LANA. That's all.

- Big E/Barrett was a surprise for me, really because, even though I worship everything Barrett touches (and so should everybody), and despite him pulling a good match out of the same guy who flopped vs. CESARO a week prior (RVD), I didn't have faith in him to pull a Big E/Swagger here. He didn't do it anyway, but I still thought this was pretty decent. Barrett clubbing someone for 10 minutes like he did here will forever be GLORIOUS. Oh, and that finish was awesome.

- Shield/Evolution. Wow. WHY THE FUCK DID I DOUBT THEM?! WHY DID I, FOR JUST ONE INSTANCE, DID I *NOT* BELIEVE IN THE SHIELD?! Seriously. Evolution looked very good too, especially Orton, but c'mon, this was the Kingdom Of The Shield and you know it. That 1st half was very good with some great old school heel work even if kinda draggy (which, alongside Batista and Reigns being dead in the ring for like forever until the end, is why I'm not putting the ****1/2 on it), but then that 2nd half was just explosive. Oh, and much like everybody else, I couldn't have marked out more for the final 5 minutes of the match. Brilliant, brilliant stuff. Don't believe in the Shield yet? FUCKING KILL YOURSELF.

- Cena/Wyatt. Wow. But in this turn, it's wow in a fpalm way. I KNEW IT. I was very, very skeptical going onto this match and Shield/Evolution. Difference is Shield/Evolution didn't only deliever, it *SHIELDELIEVERED* _(that's my term for any Shield match being truly Shield good)_. Cena/Wyatt... delievered stupidity and putting the watcher in unimaginable anger wise. Cena had that match won like infinity times. Wyatt, Harper and Rowan came off looking weak, dumb and lousy. I know Cena is supposed to be Superman, but this was just fucking ridiculous. Ending was interesting but cheesy as all fuck. Only not giving this a straight DUD because Bray got to play and be Bray. They went from that WM storytelling masterpiece... to this. Fucking Christ. Tbph, Wyatt came off looking WORSE than he would've had he lost the fucking match. Yes, he looked THAT bad. 

- Paige/Tamina was what it was. Not much to say.

- Bryan/Kane was a slower paced version of everything I expected... plus, WAY, WAY more. Parking lot brawl? Check. First major use of a forklift (which I didn't mind even if it dragged out way too much) since Lesnar/Show JD? Check. CROWBAR? Half-Life check. Bryan's surreal Benoit'ish bump off the forklift? Check (I was actually worried for him there). FUCKING FIRE IN A PG PPV? CHECK. Oh, and Bryan/Kane for the WWE WHC Title in a PPV Main Event - a dream match I've had since Team Hell No started - actually happening? Oh yeah, check. Awesome stuff.

Overall, entertaining show, but would've been way better if one of the 3 Main Events wasn't a straight up FLOP.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Don't skip COTC I. The undercard is GOAT. Especially the two big tag matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Good thing I'm not a Wyatt fan because it looks like so many have been legit annoyed by the booking of that match while I was half paying attention. I actually sorta wanted Cena to win just to laugh at the reactions. I just can't get into this story because I know Chris Benoit's chances of headlining WWE's Hall of Fame class of 2015 are higher than Cena turning heel.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5m1wAiuSQjXBb7pmXB
> 
> WeeLC match .
> 
> Watching some MEMPHIS shit :mark:. LAWLER. FUNK. DIRTY DUTCH.


Thanks Cal.  I was thinking of watching some Memphis myself if i can be arsed to dig out the Memphis set, i wanna see Lawler/Bam Bam (Texas Death Match) and Lawler/Savage.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

To wash off the stench of that cage match from last night, you guys should all watch the Lawler/Idol cage match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> To wash off the stench of that cage match from last night, you guys should all watch the Lawler/Idol cage match.


That is another thing on my watch list for this week, considering i have the entire feud on disc, :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm working my way through each disc watching the stuff I know will be "high end" matches or matches that really interest me and could be high end. Watched both Funk/Lawler matches and am now on match 3 of Lawler/Dutch :mark:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

For those interested, most (if not all) of the DVDVR Memphis set is on YT.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Don't skip COTC I. The undercard is GOAT. Especially the two big tag matches.



MVC vs the Steiner's >>>>> anything on that Clash Card. And I like that event, especially Midnight vs the Fantastics, but come on. Let's just all pay homage to 4 gigantic men pulverizing each other. I think I MIGHT still put that Southern Boys/Midnight Express tag above it, but outside of that masterwork, there isn't one single WCW tag I'd say is flat out BETTER than Doc and Gordy vs the Genetic Freak and the Dog Faced Grimlin.

Think I'll watch Pillman and Austin vs Arn and Flair. Never actually seen this, so I'm hoping it's as good in reality as it sounds in paper.


New dream match for me: baby face Shield vs Arn/Tully/Flair. My lordddddddd.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

EVERY CLASH OF THE CHAMPIONS IS ADDED

Finally, Network. Finally.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Clash of the champions I​*

Jimmy Garvin vs Mike Rotunda: **1/2 
The Midnight express vs the fantastics: ****1/2 
Dusty Rhodes & the Road Warriors vs. Ivan Koloff & the Powers of Pain: * 
Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs Barry Windham & Lex Luger: ****1/4 
Ric Flair vs Sting: ***​
REALLY fun event, though the main event should only have been half the length it was because they legit repeated the same exact match over about half way through, don’t really see why it gets praised. If it was just the first half of the match I would go a lot higher but the ridiculous length really brought this down, still decent enough though. 

The two tag matches were both :mark: but I think I liked the first one just a bit better, they were both fucking fantastic and I really love the MNE, one of my favorite tag teams. Second one had a really emotional ending with Windham and Luger winning the titles, I liked that too. Overall a really fun show, would recommend starting here if you want to watch all of the COTC shows like I am going to.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Evolution v The Shield - Extreme Rules (5/4/14)
What a fucking match. Going into it I questioned whether it could be truly great, not because I had doubts about The Shield but I lacked faith in their opponents. I also thought they should've added a stipulation. I can happily admit I was wrong on both counts. Evolution played their part but this was all about The Shield. They made this what it was for sure. I actually thought it was Batista's best showing since his return. Not to say that he was great or anything but he held up his end of the bargain and I can't think of anything to point to as a bad moment from him. Rollins is being praised as the star of the match by most people, and rightly so. Ambrose was right there with him though. He's my favorite FIP worker right now. Such a natural in that role with his facials and wild desperate swings when he's taking a beating. The first half of the match wasn't great but it was very solid. Everything from the hot tag onwards was superb. Reigns is a guy that has question marks over his ability and I understand that. Not sure how good of a singles worker he is or can be. As the powerhouse of The Shield though, he shines in that position and does everything I'd want him to do. The chaos at the end was just so much fun. Completely agree with Seabs about the second half of this being better than that of Wyatts/Shield (overall bell to bell the EC match is still better). Seth's dive from the stands is a spot that will never be forgotten. Awesome stuff.



Spoiler: THE LIST



1. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Elimination Chamber (2/23/14)
2. Cesaro v Sami Zayn - NXT ArRIVAL (2/27/14)
3. Evolution v The Shield - Extreme Rules (5/4/14)
4. Daniel Bryan v Triple H - WrestleMania XXX (4/6/14)
5. Bray Wyatt v Daniel Bryan - Royal Rumble (1/26/14)
6. Randy Orton v Batista v Daniel Bryan - WrestleMania XXX (4/6/14)
7. Cesaro v John Cena - Raw (2/17/14)
8. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Main Event (4/8/14)
9. Bray Wyatt v John Cena - WrestleMania XXX (4/6/14)
10. Randy Orton v Cesaro v Christian v Daniel Bryan v John Cena v Sheamus - Elimination Chamber (2/23/14)
11. Daniel Bryan v Randy Orton - Raw (2/3/14)
12. Corey Graves v Sami Zayn - NXT (4/3/14)
13. Christian & Sheamus v The Real Americans - Raw (2/10/14)
14. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Raw (3/3/14)
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.



I don't care what anyone says about the product, the match quality this year (and last year) has been top notch. Was there anything great on TV in the last few weeks? Didn't watch too much between Mania and ER.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> MVC vs the Steiner's >>>>> anything on that Clash Card. And I like that event, especially Midnight vs the Fantastics, but come on. Let's just all pay homage to 4 gigantic men pulverizing each other. I think I MIGHT still put that Southern Boys/Midnight Express tag above it, but outside of that masterwork, there isn't one single WCW tag I'd say is flat out BETTER than Doc and Gordy vs the Genetic Freak and the Dog Faced Grimlin.


How do you rate their Clash match against Beach Bash?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I adored the Beach Blast match while most others thought it went too long, dunno if I'd have the same thoughts on a re-watch. After watching it I thought the Clash match could be good but probably wouldn't reach the same level. Turns out I was ass-wrong and Clash blows it out of the water. Best 2-on-2 WCW tag, IMO.

EDIT - Apparently Sheamus fell asleep watching the Rusev match at ER. :lmao


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*WWE EXTREME RULES 5/4*

KICKOFF: WeeLC Match:
El Torito vs Hornswoggle
**1/4 (VERY FUNNY AND EXTREME)

Triple Threat Elimination Match:
Rob Van Dam vs Jack Swagger vs Cesaro
**1/2 (Ok)

Alexander Rusev vs R-Truth & Xavier Woods
1/2* (STUPID SQUASH, WE WANT LANA)

WWE Intercontinental Title Match
Big E (c)vs Bad News Barrett
*1/4 (Boring)

Evolution vs The Shield
**** (AWESOME MATCH, SETH ROLLINS > jeff hardy)

Steel Cage Match
John Cena vs Bray Wyatt
* (Sleeping Match)

Paige vs Tamina Snuka
*1/4 (Bad, but i love Paige)

WWE World Heavyweight Title Match
Daniel Bryan (c) vs Kane
**3/4 (entertained, but the wrestling???)

Overall Grade: 5.25​


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Yeah1993 said:


> I adored the Beach Blast match while most others thought it went too long, dunno if I'd have the same thoughts on a re-watch. After watching it I thought the Clash match could be good but probably wouldn't reach the same level. Turns out I was ass-wrong and Clash blows it out of the water. Best 2-on-2 WCW tag, IMO.
> 
> EDIT - Apparently Sheamus fell asleep watching the Rusev match at ER. :lmao


That's good news. I did like their Beach Bash match but it came to the point where you are wondering if it'll ever finish. If Clash is _that_ good, going to jump in and find it where I can.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> I think before this, the closest he got was a tweener, but yeah, he's killing it as a face and plays face in peril really well too when he does. The Shield as babyfaces are fucking awesome. I'm so happy the plug was pulled on a break up on the RTWM and they were kept together. Hopefully they continue and don't break up for a while because there's still a lot of places this can go.
> 
> One of the greatest stables in WWE history at this point? Their work quality in their amount of time is really impressive.


I'm still legitimately impressed that WWE ran the storyline where they had problems and then actually worked through them and stayed a team. And since the face turn they've literally been just as good to better than they were as heels. They're ridiculously likable for people that were ruthless heels just months ago. Makes me happy to see a guy like Ambrose in a theoretical main event spot at the moment. I never expected this much from him but he's awesome. And god, Rollins has been amazing too. I like Reigns and his work in the six man tags are great. I think over time he'll develop and be awesome as well.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Wow I really need to watch some Memphis stuff, wasn't even aware any sort of Savage/Lawler or Lawler/Bam Bam match took place.

Also people loving the Extreme Rules ME :mark;, probably one of the most FUN matches WWE has had this year, up there with Matadores/Usos vs 3MB/Hawkins, may watch it again after Raw tonight, or maybe COTC I, who knows!?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

*Extreme Rules 2013*

*Evolution vs The Shield*

My opinion of the first part of this match lowered a bit on the rewatch. Not that things were bad, but there was nothing spectular in the heel work. FIP stuff was fine from Rollins and Ambrose (Ambrose's rebound lariat is so great though), then the hot tag to Reigns is great. Crowd was super hot for him, and I thought him running wild with offense was pretty good. Always like his drop kick outside the ring, and him dodging a Trips clothesline en route to that in this match was cool. One thing I noticed in this match was the shoddy camera work at times. They missed Ambrose and Trips going over the announce table, and at the same time they missed most of a nearfall in the ring. Then, I think they missed Rollins hitting a back body drop on Trips on a landing up in the stands, only to have the camera on Batista and Reigns laying in the ring. The chaos that ensues after the hot tag to Reigns is super duper, but DAMN at Trips dodging the suicide dive from Rollins. Reigns coming out of the Batista Bomb attempt and hitting the superman punch was real sweet, and Dave sold it terrifically. Great definitive win for the Shield. Match did what it needed to do but I'm not sure it was even a top 10 Shield match, if we look at the match as a whole. Rewatch rating: ****3/4*

*Bray Wyatt vs John Cena - Steel Cage Match*

This match has some :lmao moments. Cena gearing up to open the cage door with Rowan trying to block him is one. Rowan catching Cena as he climbs and forcing him back is another. I actually think this is where I fell asleep last night. I remember the cage door spot, and I kind of remember the commentary of Rowan pushing Cena back in. The finish is really :lmao :lmao Cena just stopping when the lights go out and still not climbing out makes zero sense. The kid with the voice changer :lmao Suddenly Bray is alive and hits Sister Abigail :lmao If they don't capitalize on the kid being against Cena then I just don't know. Rating: *I really don't know.*

*Daniel Bryan vs Kane - WWE WHC Match*

Hd a difficult getting into this match. Crowd seemed to feel the same way. No rating at this moment.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Desecrated said:


> How do you rate their Clash match against Beach Bash?





Yeah1993 said:


> I adored the Beach Blast match while most others thought it went too long, dunno if I'd have the same thoughts on a re-watch. After watching it I thought the Clash match could be good but probably wouldn't reach the same level. Turns out I was ass-wrong and Clash blows it out of the water. Best 2-on-2 WCW tag, IMO.
> 
> EDIT - Apparently Sheamus fell asleep watching the Rusev match at ER. :lmao



:lmao

I definitely like the Beach Blast match, it's awesome, but yea you said it best, there really is no topping that COTC match. It's just like you said, one of the best 2 on 2 tags ever held in the US. That's super high praise, as there is a simply ASTONISHING amount of fabulous tags in WCW from 1988-1994. Too many to even count.

The Beach Blast match does go a bit too long, it could definitely have done with about 5-7 minutes trimmed. But the Clash match is sheer perfection. If I were to throw a star rating at them, COTC would get ****3/4 and Beach Blast would get ****. 

Definitely check it out when you get the chance Desecrated (Y)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Girlfriend and I both had fun watching the battle royal on RAW. Good stuff all around.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Upped my rating to **** for Bryan/Kane, MAN O' MAN

Also the Battle Royal was very enjoyable, everyone should check it out


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Whats the best overall COTC?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

_Stone Cold Steve Austin vs The Undertaker (Fully Loaded 1999)_

- Austin and Taker had scuffled prior to the match and apparently busted each other open, the commentators really emphasized the easiness of accomplishing the match goal because of the events before (scuffle, you know what I said before). The crowd brawling was an overused concept in the A-Era but still effective when done right and this was done pretty-fucking-right I would say. Austin's careless style bumping over the railing for Taker's measured uppercuts were great. The desperation of both guys to tear the already gashed skin of the other really put over the stakes of the match (McMahon leaving or Austin never receiving another shot at THE title). Vince on commentary was great, every possible blood-exerting blow on Austin, he'd take and run with the yelling of "he's bleeding!!!" Lawler was fine as the boss's puppet and JR playing devil's advocate made the good side of the announce table. Great match, crowd was the epitome of active and alive and the overbooking was so fluid and had a domino effect to it. ****

_Bret Hart vs Razor Ramon (Royal Rumble 1993) 
_ 
- Razor's main target of attack was Bret's ribs and back area, the targeting was made possible by a violent shove into the ring post by Razor which initiated the dissection. Bret as per normal worked the legs in typical fashion. An outside dive that Bret did was swell, the close ending phase was packed with near falls. Finish didn't suite the build up to it, flat and anti-climatic basically. Bret's selling of the back/ribs was decent and Razor's status appeared well afterwards. ***

_The Miz vs Matt Hardy (Smackdown 5/25/2007) 
_ 
- Excellent match imo. Earlier into it, Matt withstood some unpleasant elbows, taking a bump backwards near the ropes and with his neck landing on the middle one. From that point forward, Matt sold the bump through the match in the form of a concussion. It was believable to say the least, disorientation and fuzziness in vision were exceptionally portrayed here. Miz's control thru applying a submission move on the specific area of injury was AWESOME and one of the times I truly felt invested into a control segment presented by The Mizark. You didn't have to suspend belief for Matt's upturn, it was utterly believable. Miz's selling of the TWOF was a bit wonky but regardless of that, this had great storytelling in a tried plot genre ala heel dominates majority of the match, babyface comes back etc etc. ***3/4

_Jeff Hardy, Rey Mysterio, Kane, and Triple H vs Mr. Kennedy, Fit Finlay, Umaga, MVP and Big Daddy V (Survivor Series 2007)_

- One of the better SSeries based matches. Not everybody shined or got a chance at standing out but all executed their roles well. Eliminations were done in accordance though Matt Hardy was injured prior (kayfabe I think) to this and couldn't compete. Finlay really sold the two man team of Trips & Jeff in the later portion of the match, nice bumping and selling. Big Daddy came out as he went in with his status as a monster intact, good to see that aswell. ***1/4

_John Cena vs Bobby Lashley (Great American Bash 2007)_

- The big time fight feel added to the match aura, basic wrestling exchanges were applied early and smartly so, as this rallied up the crowd quite a bit. Cena's facial expressions put over the strength of his larger opponent. Lashley didn't have a set move set at the time and that kinda hinders the match overall. The ending is a complete Cena carry as he hits all his significant spots and superbly times them all. The finish had a slight sloppiness to it but otherwise kept Lashley really strong and made me think whether WWE had big things planned for Lashley. Anyways, the build to the finale was good as was the ending itself (a bit sloppy in execution). The match was kept just under the 15 minute mark, smart to do so as it kept the match at a high pace. ***1/2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Last time I watched the COTC Steiners/Gordy & Williams match, I thought it was good but not too memorable. Let's hope that changes in tonight's watch. I still dislike Steve Williams and think he's very overrated, but Scott Steiner and Terry Gordy should do enough to make it enjoyable. Like the Beach Blast match too, but it does drag a ton.

Cena/Lashley was really good. Best possible way to have a Lashley match. Cena's career year in the ring. Love Bret/Razor and Austin/Taker. Need to see that Miz/Hardy match to believe it.

Bryan/Del Rio was really good. Exactly what I want in wrestling. I too bumped Bryan/Kane from last night to ******. Gotta love this Bryan title reign.

EDIT: Good episode of RAW. RVD/Cesaro, Cody/Ryback, and Barrett/Big E were harmless fun. Wyatt promo was great. US Title battle royal was good, and if this is the first seed in the eventual Sheamus heel turn, then it's perfect. Subtle, but worked really well. Lana's promo on Vladimir Putin was unintentionally hilarious. Adam Rose debut was kinda fun.

But man, the two big matches tonight. Bryan/Del Rio like I said before was great. And then Shield/Wyatts IV. :lenny. This time, it was Luke Harper that was killing it out there. All three trios in the same place at the same time too. Great main event.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I missed the first two hours of Raw but apparently Daniel Bryan had a match with Del Rio? I gotta check that out.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Raw tonight was awesome, Battle Royal was great, some great subtle things in that match, the Show/Henry portion was done very well. Rhodes/Ryback was good as well, at the *** for me, Ryback has had an underrated year (Probably because he has 2-4 matches that make tape every week). Missed ADR/Bryan , got to catch it tomorrow, heard it was great. Big E/BNB was a bit better than last night, *** as well. Now Wyatts/Shield IV was :banderas just awesome, probably ranked #3 out of 4 of their matches, at the **** mark.

Awesome Raw, only complaint really is that I still can't get into RVD/Cesaro single matches.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I think this Shield vs. Wyatt Family match was the weakest of their series, but still really good (***1/2).

I was tuning in and out of Bryan vs. ADR so I'll probably have to re-watch that.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I didn't care for Bryan/ADR at all really. :|


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

ADR is just so stale it's extremely hard to sit down and watch his stuff without tuning out and focusing on something else at this point, at least for me.


----------



## Superhippy (Jan 28, 2014)

So on 2nd watch here are my match ratings for Extreme Rules.

Torito v. Hornswoggle - ***1/4 - I still can't believe it was that good. This is how comedy in wrestling should be done. Not Santino's stupid cobra.

Swagger v. RVD v. Cesaro - **1/2 - A couple of decent spots but overall it fell flat. 

Rusev v. Truth/Woods - *3/4 - Rusev is really athletic and has potential but for the love of god please stop using the camel clutch as a finisher. Lame...as...Hell.

Barrett v. Big E - **1/2 - Nothing terrible, Nothing that memorable. 

Shield v. Evolution - **** - Without the last 5 - 6 minutes this thing is maybe a *** and that is being generous. Orton and Batista just stand there and punch. It's boring if you ask me. The outside stuff along with the Rollins spot bump it up a full star though. That was awesome. The ending prevents any more then **** from me though. Cookie cutter Reigns Superman Punch - Spear ending. There has to be more Reigns can do.

Cena v. Wyatt - * - I thought it was average the 1st time around but on 2nd watch, this thing was a piece of garbage (I have it as worst match of the show). The heel is going for pinfalls. The babyface is trying to escape the cage. Cena apparently is afraid to jump out of the cage onto the Wyatt's. The only moves Wyatt does nearly the entire match is throwing Cena into the cage. Cena counters EVERYTHING that Harper and Rowen do. The part with Cena overpowering Rowen and Harper over the door was a joke. The Harper / Cena tug of war was awful. The little kid with the demon voice is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen in wrestling. Wyatt walking out when he was trying to pin Cena all match. Just awful. The only reason I give it a * is for at attempt at creativity by using the kid. Maybe the worst PPV match all year.

Kane v. Bryan - ****1/4 - Match of the night. The match started off with a great tone by Bryan going right after Kane. Kane thowing the TV into the water was a nice touch. The gas tank through straight through the window was awesome. Bryan hitting Kane with a shovel felt organic, which is a problem alot of these matches have. The forklift part was a smart move. I HATE when guys brawl backstage and then just randomly decide to walk back to the ring. It makes no sense. Kane being knocked out by a tire iron and being carried back made sense though. The Bryan jump off the forklift was great. Kane's chokeslam on Bryan through the table looked brutal. The flaming table spot was done well. The fire extinguishers into the knee for the win followed by Kane getting right back up was perfect. Kane lost but still looked very strong. Great match.

Bryan and The Shield are showing consistency week in, week out that the WWE hasn't seen in years. Bryan this year has had 5 4+ star matches on 4 PPV's. The dude has a chance to have one of the greatest single year runs in terms of match quality that anyone in wrestling history has ever had. Good for him.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck me WWE, will you please STOP giving away Shield/Wyatts on fucking TV? I'm all for great TV matches but damn, stop giving THIS match away lol. They managed to never have HBK/Undertaker in a singles match on anything but PPV (I don't even think they had a 1 on 1 match at a fucking house show lol, was always some sort of tag with HHH and Mankind or something lol), so why can't you keep these two teams away from each other too?

Anyway, that small rant aside, the match was still :mark:. I and III were better, would put this on par with II though both were completely different matches but still fucking great in their own way. Looks like Evolution/Shield is continuing, hope we get some crazy gimmick match out of it (guessing WAR GAMES is out of the question still, right?). I'd settle for a fucking 6 man tag elimination chamber match. Or even a HIAC. They don't HAVE to wait for the actual PPV's to use the fucking gimmicks dammit.

The fuck was up with the shitty crowd last night anyway? ER was pretty bad but damn, they were absolutely awful for Raw. They didn't give a SHIT about almost everything, hell it took the final hot tag to Reigns for them to start caring about the fucking SHIELD VS WYATT match. Then again there wasn't much I bothered to sit through on the show so I don't blame them for not caring. Even skipped Bryan/Rio because Del Rio has been phoning it in for months now ever since it was reported he was getting ready to leave.

Sheamus is US champ :mark:. Throw him up against Swagger, Cesaro, Christian (when he comes back, if he does. Yeah, I want MOAR matches between these two because they rule), Henry etc and the division could rock. Gives him plenty to do since the WWE WHC scene is apparently stuck with KANE still.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Apparently the arena they are doing battleground in is large enough for a war games setup 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Isn't that show 2 months away though? Not sure I'd WANT Evolution/Shield to go on that long lol.


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

Guys, I want to hear your top-5 Shield matches.
Here are mine, it was really hard to make the list, because they've had so many amazing matches, lol.

1. vs. The Wyatt Family (Elimination Chamber 2014)
2. vs. Team Hell No & Ryback (TLC 2012)
3. vs. Team Hell No & The Undertaker (RAW 04/22/13)
4. vs. Team Hell No & Kofi Kingston (RAW 05/20/13)
5. vs. Evolution (Extreme Rules 2014).

Best trio in wrestling history when it comes to the match quality? I think so! reigns:ambrose


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

NastyYaffa said:


> Guys, I want to hear your top-5 Shield matches.
> Here are mine, it was really hard to make the list, because they've had so many amazing matches, lol.
> 
> 1. vs. The Wyatt Family (Elimination Chamber 2014)
> ...



1. Vs Hell No/Ryback TLC 2012 ****3/4
2. Vs Wyatt Family EC 2014 ****1/2
3. Vs Evolution ER 2014 ****1/4
4. Vs Rhodes Bros BattleGround 2013 ****
5. Vs Hell No/Kofi Raw ****
6. Vs Super Friends Elimination Chamber 2013 ****
7. Vs Rhodes Bros No DQ Raw 2013 ****
8. Vs The Usos MitB 2013 ***3/4
9. Vs Wyatt Family III Main Event 2014 ***3/4
10. Vs Team Hell No/Undertaker Raw 2013 ***3/4

Couldn't stop at just 5


----------



## Malicious1 (May 6, 2014)

Razor vs. Diesal Summerslam?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Random upload from me: 

Vince McMahon Announcement announcing Randy Savage departure (RAW 11.07.1994)

x1tayrl


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 Shield matches would be something like...

1) Wyatt Family EC 2014
2) Hell No and Kane TLC 12
3) Hell No and Kofi on Raw last year
4) Hell No and Taker Raw last year
5) Wyatt Family Main Event


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Been after this match for ages, finally got it so here it is: 

Bret Hart & Davey Boy Smith vs Owen Hart & Bob Backlund (WWF Action Zone 02.26.1995)


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Did you ever watch the Backlund/Hitman singles match?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> Did you ever watch the Backlund/Hitman singles match?


Which one mate? I've seen the SS and WM ones when they happened, and a couple of times since. Still havn't seen their match on Superstars yet, which is supposed to be good.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Top Ten Shield Matches:

vs. Ryback/Team Hell No TLC 2012: *****3/4*
vs. Wyatt Family EC 2014: *****3/4*
vs. Evolution ER 2014: *****1/2*
vs. Rhodes Brothers BG 2013: *****1/4*
vs. Team Hell No/Kofi RAW 2013: *****1/4*
vs. Team Hell No/Taker RAW 2013: *****1/4*
vs. Wyatt Family RAW Chicago: *****1/4*
Thanksgiving Tag Team Turmoil: *****1/4*
vs. Team Sell No EC 2013: *****1/4*
vs. Rhodes Brothers RAW No DQ: ******

Do even the Freebirds have a catalog as good as this?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

NastyYaffa said:


> Guys, I want to hear your top-5 Shield matches.
> Here are mine, it was really hard to make the list, because they've had so many amazing matches, lol.
> 
> 1. vs. The Wyatt Family (Elimination Chamber 2014)
> ...


Switch this with their Elimination Chamber 2013 match with Ryback, Cena & Sheamus and I completely agree with the list.

Also switch #3 and #5 for exact list.

I'm definitely down for the GOAT 6-man tag stables having a rematch at Payback, War Games or whatever it is they'll do.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Hitman said:


> Which one mate? I've seen the SS and WM ones when they happened, and a couple of times since. Still havn't seen their match on Superstars yet, which is supposed to be good.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Superstars bout is pretty good, and is the one I leaned at. Backlund was fantastic in it, though I did feel Hart was just coat-tailing, for the most part. Saw you pimping that tag and immediately thought of the match. Pretty good mat-wrestling to start it all off. You should get on it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> Superstars bout is pretty good, and is the one I leaned at. Backlund was fantastic in it, though I did feel Hart was just coat-tailing, for the most part. Saw you pimping that tag and immediately thought of the match. Pretty good mat-wrestling to start it all off. You should get on it.


Great, thanks for that. Ill try and get on it tonight.

Dustin Rhodes vs. Bunkhouse Buck (Bunkhouse Match) (Stampede 4/17/94)

Couple of great lines from Heenan:

Shavione: "There is a difference between Texas and Tennessee£
Heenan: "Yeah, there are more letters in Tennessee.

Shavione: (On Dustin) "He's taking something out of his pocket"
Heenan: "It's his will.....or a note from his dad"

:lol

Love this match. About to watch Vader/Boss next.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top 10 Shield matches? OH BAYBEE.

1) vs. Hell No & Ryback TLC, ****3/4
2) vs. Wyatts I, ****1/2
3) vs. Evolution, ****1/4
4) vs. Hell No & Kofi, ****1/4
5) vs. Rhodes Bros No DQ, ****1/4
6) vs. Rhodes Bros BG, ****1/4
7) vs. Hell No 5/27/13, ****1/4
8) vs. Wyatts III, ****
9) vs. Hell No & Taker, ****
10) vs. Wyatts IV, ****
Honorable Mentions: vs. Wyatts II, vs. Justice League, vs. Hell RK-No SD

Speaking of the latter, WOW what a show of badassness as usual. It was obviously hurt by that AWFUL crowd, who got only hot when the Reigns hot tag struck, but man oh man. Ambrose, Rollins and especially Harper just killed it there. Plus, I know this is wishful thinking here, but the seeds may have been planted for a possible *SHIELD/WYATTS/EVOLUTION 3-WAY* :mark: :mark: :mark:

In two back-to-back nights, the Shield have had **** stuff. That's absolutely commendable to say the least. If they're not in the top 5 stables of all time based on in-ring quality alone, I really don't know. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Top Ten Shield Matches:
> 
> vs. Ryback/Team Hell No TLC 2012: *****3/4*
> vs. Wyatt Family EC 2014: *****3/4*
> ...


Am I the only one who has no idea what was this match here?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Everyone get on the youtube and watch Bobby Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar vs Dutch Mantell & King Cobra - Memphis - 07/19/1982 from the second disc of the DVDVR Memphis set.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Everyone get on the youtube and watch Bobby Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar vs Dutch Mantell & King Cobra - Memphis - 07/19/1982 from the second disc of the DVDVR Memphis set.


Listen to this pooface. :woolcock recommended this match about a year ago. Terrific. And while you're at it, go ahead and watch Jerry Lawler & Dutch Mantell vs Bill Dundee & Buddy Landell (3/10/82). And the MVC/Steiners match at COTC XIX. Watched it last night and it was incredible. Loved how they went from one style of slower-paced mat wrestling into throwing bombs. It's short (15 minutes) but full of action and energy. Hot crowd too and Steve Williams and Rick Steiner don't shit the bed like they sometimes do.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Still have no idea what the Thanksgiving Tag Team Turmoil is. 

Also, anyone have some general thoughts on Jessie McKay?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd probably throw ***1/2 for Shield/Wyatts last night. Shield/Evo was a little bit better due to the awesome last 5 minutes, but Shield/Wyatts was really good-great from bell to bell and didn't get as boring as Shield/Evo was for the first half.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Top 5 Shield matches (6 man tags only):

1a. v Wyatts I
1b. v Hell No/Ryback 
3. v Evolution 
4. v Hell No/Kofi 
5. v Wyatts III

Would have to re-watch EC '14 and TLC '12 to decide the definitive number 1. Wyatts on Main Event just edged out EC '13 against Cena, Sheamus and Ryback.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Fuck me WWE, will you please STOP giving away Shield/Wyatts on fucking TV? I'm all for great TV matches but damn, stop giving THIS match away lol. They managed to never have HBK/Undertaker in a singles match on anything but PPV (I don't even think they had a 1 on 1 match at a fucking house show lol, was always some sort of tag with HHH and Mankind or something lol), so why can't you keep these two teams away from each other too?


I think they feel like they got the absolute best out of Shield/Wyatts at Elimination Chamber and have no intention of revisiting that feud on PPV. I mean they had a match on Main Event for fucks sake. At this point I'm fine with it.

Evolution/Shield II should be a no DQ elimination tag or a tornado tag.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

ATF said:


> Still have no idea what the Thanksgiving Tag Team Turmoil is.
> 
> Also, anyone have some general thoughts on *Jessie McKay*?


Love her, ever since her breakout performance vs Cheerleader Melissa at SHIMMER Volume 25. She's also pretty attractive as well (which is a bonus on the indies ), I also think her match vs Madison Eagles at SHIMMER Vol. 35 is one the best title matches in the company's history , some amazing display of athleticism and showcased in a way a mentor vs student match . Also I recommend her series of matches with Nicole Mathews, some good stuff. I still haven't seen her match vs Kana but I heard it was good too.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

If Shield/Evolution do to at it again, let it be tornado style plz. Let chaos reign supreme and it could be a classic.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'd like to think that if they're going with a Shield/Evolution rematch, that it will be some kind of gimmick. The PPV is Payback, after all. If it was a Hell in a Cell match :banderas

I imagine Bryan/Kane will be a Last Man Standing or something of the like.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Shield/Evolution rematch is definitely taking place, but if Raw is a subtle indication, they might and SHOULD go with a Shield/Evolution/Wyatts Triple Threat. The Cena/Wyatt feud can absolutely fuck off after the Extreme Rules shittery. Has there ever been a 3-on-3-on-3 match ever? 

Also FF, that "Thanksgiving Tag Team Turmoil" was technically NOT a Tag Team Turmoil, just three different matches together. But I'm sure you know that


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

How about three singles matches instead? Batista vs. Rollins, Trips vs. Reigns and Orton vs. Ambrose?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Singles matches would be horrible. Nobody wants to see Batista in a singles match. He was fucking knackered on Raw just attacking The Shield AFTER they were beat down by The Wyatt's ffs. Tag match allows guys like Batista to stand on the apron and not do shit for most of the match.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I just don't see the point of Evolution doing the job twice in a row even with Bats leaving. At the same time, I don't see the Shield losing clean either. I think whatever happens at payback will be to setup Trips/Reigns.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If we get Shield vs Evolution again, it needs to either be:

a.) a Hell in a Cell, 3 on 3 match with no tagging
b.) a full on Street Fight with bats and such with no tagging


Those are really the only ways to go, I want a match with no tagging and just constant, undying MAYHEM.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> If we get Shield vs Evolution again, it needs to either be:
> 
> a.) a Hell in a Cell, 3 on 3 match with no tagging
> b.) a full on Street Fight with bats and such with no tagging
> ...


Hopefully this happens at either Payback or Summerslam. A feud like this needs to culminate in a match where there's nothing but chaos.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> If we get Shield vs Evolution again, it needs to either be:
> 
> 
> b.) a full on Street Fight with bats and such with no


Fuck yeah, some crazy ass batshit needs to happen in any rematch imo, not just a 'standard' tag. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Seeing Shield/Wyatts in person last night was :moyes1 x10.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Shield vs Evolution II as a tornado No DQ tag would be awesome. Evolution should win that one, though. Triple H can do something heelish to escape with a win and Reigns challenges him to a one on one which they have at SummerSlam.

For singles matches, Orton vs Rollins needs to happen too.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> If we get Shield vs Evolution again, it needs to either be:
> 
> a.) a Hell in a Cell, 3 on 3 match with no tagging
> b.) a full on Street Fight with bats and such with no tagging
> ...


I'd go with a Street Fight over Hell in a Cell. I'm sure with Triple H being in the match they'd possibly let loose and have blood and stuff, but still, I think a HIAC is not needed. It's gonna be a fight whether it's in a cell or a street fight or a cage or whatever.


Choke2Death said:


> Shield vs Evolution II as a tornado No DQ tag would be awesome. Evolution should win that one, though. Triple H can do something heelish to escape with a win and Reigns challenges him to a one on one which they have at SummerSlam.
> 
> For singles matches, Orton vs Rollins needs to happen too.


That's not bad at all, either. We haven't seen a Tornado Tag in a long time. I've always loved those kind of tag matches.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

No way they are doing the six-man tag on a PPV again without any stipulation/gimmick.

But it can't be TLC/HIAC/Elimination Tag because fuck WWE


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Vic Capri said:


> *Audio Glitch*
> 
> I’m watching The Ultimate Collection DVD and for some reason, WWE’s video department edited out commentary by Schiavone, Heenan, and Tenay during Warrior’s entrance for his final WCW appearance (Nitro • October 26, 1998) and because somebody wasn’t paying attention, it sounds like Warrior’s mic is cutting out for half of his promo! It wasn’t like this on the original broadcast.
> 
> ...


Here you go. 

x1tcc2h


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Singles matches would be horrible. Nobody wants to see Batista in a singles match. He was fucking knackered on Raw just attacking The Shield AFTER they were beat down by The Wyatt's ffs. Tag match allows guys like Batista to stand on the apron and not do shit for most of the match.


He was probably joking :side:


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I could only imagine how good Roman Reigns vs. Batista would be. :side:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Eulonzo said:


> I could only imagine how good Roman Reigns vs. Batista would be. :side:


Let's hope that is in no-one's imagination at the E headquarters.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Shield vs Evolution II as a tornado No DQ tag would be awesome. Evolution should win that one, though. Triple H can do something heelish to escape with a win and Reigns challenges him to a one on one which they have at SummerSlam.
> 
> For singles matches, Orton vs Rollins needs to happen too.


Orton vs Rollins would be a great Raw main event. I can see their styles meshing really well, if Orton turns it up like we know he can, and Rollins does his thing, man that could be a great match. We might see the first suicide dive over the ropes-RKO counter :mark: :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> If we get Shield vs Evolution again, it needs to either be:
> 
> a.) a Hell in a Cell, 3 on 3 match with no tagging
> b.) a full on Street Fight with bats and such with no tagging
> ...


BATS :mark: 

Can't remember the last time I saw a baseball bat on WWE TV. Kendo sticks, on the other hand. They should start calling Extreme Rules Matches, "Probably gonna see a kendo stick match."


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

You know, i don't remember anything from Flair/HBK vs Savage/Hart.  Its on the Savage set, right?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

How bout dat Game. Two matches in 2014, two MOTYCs. Time to make it 3 out of 3 at Payback. :hhh2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

2014 is the best in-ring year for Triple H since 2005 :lol

What's even funnier is that Batista somehow has more good matches this past month than bad ones.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm not sure who my WOTY would be right now. I know it's not Cesaro. I'd most likely go with Bryan but I kind of want to say Rollins. Or even Ambrose. They haven't had any outstanding singles matches though. That works against them.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

You aren't qualified to speak on the Game, FF. Stop talking. 

Shield vs. Hell No & Ryback is still my GOAT Shield match. I think vs. Wyatts I would be second and vs. Evolution would be third. After that I don't know. I really liked the SD match where they were beat for the first time against Kane/Orton/Kofi I think it was? I'd need to watch them all again though. How fun a project would that be?

:ambrose :rollins :reigns


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

GAME in 2008 was good too.

I was not sure about Batista's return in the first few weeks but I'm glad he's finally gotten back into the groove and his matches have gone up in quality. Orton street fight, Sheamus match on SD plus WM & Extreme Rules were all enjoyable.

For WOTY, I don't think there's a definitive pick. Cesaro, Bryan, Orton & Shield have all been consistent.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I got no problem showing Orton's 2014 some love. I wouldn't seriously consider him for WOTY but he's been good. 



Starbuck said:


> You aren't qualified to speak on the Game, FF. Stop talking.
> 
> Shield vs. Hell No & Ryback is still my GOAT Shield match. I think vs. Wyatts I would be second and vs. Evolution would be third. After that I don't know. I really liked the SD match where they were beat for the first time against Kane/Orton/Kofi I think it was? I'd need to watch them all again though. How fun a project would that be?
> 
> :ambrose :rollins :reigns


Bryan was the guy who beat them for the first time so I'm thinking it was Team Hell No and Orton.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Bryan is WOTY


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Bryan is WOTY imo. Speaking of that Batista/Sheamus match, did you prefer that to the Ryback/Sheamus SD match or other way around?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> I got no problem showing Orton's 2014 some love. I wouldn't seriously consider him for WOTY but he's been good.
> 
> 
> 
> Bryan was the guy who beat them for the first time so I'm thinking it was Team Hell No and Orton.


I think you're right. It was on SD in late June/July maybe. Obviously before Orton turned. I remember really liking that match. Somebody on xwt should upload a damn Shield pack. It's long overdue. 

I forgot Shield vs. Cena/Ryback/Seamus from EC 2012. That would definitely be on my list at ****1/4. 

Shield/Hell No & Ryback
Shield/Wyatts I
Shield/Evolution
Shield/Cena, Seamus & Ryback

I'm stuck for a 5th. I'd need to refresh the memory.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> I think you're right. It was on SD in late June/July maybe. Obviously before Orton turned. I remember really liking that match. Somebody on xwt should upload a damn Shield pack. It's long overdue.
> 
> I forgot Shield vs. Cena/Ryback/Seamus from EC 2012. That would definitely be on my list at ****1/4.
> 
> ...


The Kofi six man on Raw is excellent. If we're including 2v2 matches, the Hell No match on Raw and Rhodes Bros matches (I prefer Battleground, some people go for the rematch) are terrific.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I prefer the Battleground match myself too. But while Reigns/Rollins had some great outings, I consider the Shield a 3 man team and they're definitely at their best as 1 unit. THey all bring something unique to the table and when you mix it all together, it's magic.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Can't you just imagine how awesome it would be if for one night only, one match only, the WWE allowed the Shield and Evolution to go no PG rating and have a Street Fight with each other? Shield in their urban combat assault gear, evolution in jeans and cut up tees. Reigns comes with a baseball bat, Rollins has a tire iron, and that nut job Ambrose shows up with a 2x4 wrapped in barbed wire. The bell sounds with both teams facing off and then sheer bedlam, a bloody fucking massacre occurs and for 15 solid minutes we get the crazyiest brawl the WWE has ever seen. The finish is definitely Orton going for the tacks, dumping them all over the ring, and catching Ambrose by surprise with a sick RKO right onto the tacks. But Ambrose kicks out! The Game then says fuck this, and pedigrees Dean directly onto the tacks for the 1-2-3. Man.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I doubt Orton would ever want anything to do with tacks ever again. And who can blame him? :lol


----------



## dmccourt95 (Jul 10, 2013)

Planning on a wrestling binge the next few days, any suggestions?

PPVs or specific matches


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> I doubt Orton would ever want anything to do with tacks ever again. And who can blame him? :lol


That Foley match :banderas That made him legit.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Daniel Bryan is the Wrestler of the Year. I'm not even sure how anyone else can be considered. The guy has arguably been involved in 3-5 **** matches JUST on ppv... and we're in May. haha. Plus those TV matches with Orton and whoever else. His Title reign is off to a wonderful start with that fucking great brawl with Kane and really good match with Del Rio on RAW.

Watching RAW last night gave me a really hard time at pinpointing what's gonna be on the Payback card. If they do in fact go with double rematches in Kane/Bryan and Shield/Evolution, I hope they do a bunch of fresh stuff on the undercard or else it's just gonna feel like Battleground 2013. The problem I have with them doing Kane vs. Bryan again is that they seriously went all out in their last match. How in the HELL do you top a forklift and a flaming table? The only thing I can think of is 3 Stages of Hell with Last Man Standing, Steel Cage, and Ladder match. Who knows. Brie's acting is fucking horrendous too. Jesus christ.

Sheamus winning the US Title is AWESOME btw. I want to see him defend vs... everyone.  Henry, Big Show, Ryback, Ziggler, Del Rio, anyone.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

They could change up the style of the potential rematch rather than an all out brawl, have something else, that of which I don't know though.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Im actually a fan of all the champions right now(excluding divas), love Bryan, Barrett,Sheamus,and the Usos a lot

I guess that was the same since Sunday because I like Ambrose too but Sheamus>Ambrose imo


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Daniel Bryan is the Wrestler of the Year. I'm not even sure how anyone else can be considered. The guy has arguably been involved in 3-5 **** matches JUST on ppv... and we're in May. haha. Plus those TV matches with Orton and whoever else. His Title reign is off to a wonderful start with that fucking great brawl with Kane and really good match with Del Rio on RAW.
> 
> Watching RAW last night gave me a really hard time at pinpointing what's gonna be on the Payback card. If they do in fact go with double rematches in Kane/Bryan and Shield/Evolution, I hope they do a bunch of fresh stuff on the undercard or else it's just gonna feel like Battleground 2013. The problem I have with them doing Kane vs. Bryan again is that they seriously went all out in their last match. How in the HELL do you top a forklift and a flaming table? The only thing I can think of is 3 Stages of Hell with Last Man Standing, Steel Cage, and Ladder match. Who knows. Brie's acting is fucking horrendous too. Jesus christ.
> 
> Sheamus winning the US Title is AWESOME btw. I want to see him defend vs... everyone.  Henry, Big Show, Ryback, Ziggler, Del Rio, anyone.



Dear God, I REALLY hope they don't go 3 Stages of Hell. That gimmick is as unsuccessful as it gets. I'd prefer just a Last Man Standing match if they REALLY have to do Kane/Bryan again. I hate to say it folks, but it would be nice to have Punk around right about now, he'd be a great opponent for Bryan to work against. Then again, they don't even NEED Punk, they have a perfectly awesome and destructive Mark Henry just plodding around doing fuck all atm. 

Their best bet is to revive Bryan/Bray if Kane is the only other option. Bray has a clean victory over Bryan, so he's plenty credible. And it wouldn't be hard for the feud to get some heat if say, Bryan decided to start interfering in the Wyatt's business because of the unresolved issues he has with Bray. Plus there is the added bonus that working with Bryan would definitely get Bray boo'd and get some of his heat back. And after that awesome match at the Rumble, I don't know who wouldn't be up for Bray vs Bryan pt. 2.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So... when was the last time we had a round of Top matches of 2014 lists? Well... LET'S GO!

(****3/4)
1) Wyatts/Shield EC
(****)
2) Wyatts/Shield Main Event 4/8
3) Bryan/HHH WM30
4) Cesaro/Cena Raw 2/17
5) Barrett/Sheamus Raw 4/21
(***3/4)
6) Wyatt/Cena WM30
7) Bryan/Orton/Cesaro/Sheamus/Christian/Cena EC
(***1/2)
8) Shield/Evolution ER
9) Wyatt/Bryan RR
10) Shield/Bryan-Cena-Sheamus Raw 1/27

Wyatts/Shield is leagues above everything else, but overall a great year so far.

As far as WOTY, gotta go with Bryan... obviously.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

My top matches of 2014 (so far):

1. The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family - Elimination Chamber - ****1/2
2. Sami Zayn vs. Cesaro - NXT ArRival - ****1/2
3. Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H - Wrestlemania XXX - ****1/4
4. The Shield vs. Evolution - Extreme Rules - ****1/4
5. Daniel Bryan vs. Batista vs. Randy Orton - Wrestlemania XXX - ****
6. Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton - Raw 2/3 - ****
7. The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family - Main Event 4/6 - ****
8. John Cena vs. Cesaro - Raw 2/17 - ****
9. The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family - Raw 3/3- ***3/4
10. Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt - Royal Rumble - ***3/4


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I don't think I'll ever agree with Bryan/Trips over Bryan/Wyatt. The latter is so much better imo.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Clash of the champions 2​*

Brad Armstrong vs Barry Windham: **1/2
Fantastics/Sheepherders: ***1/2 
Varsity club vs Ronnie and Jimmy Garvin: ***
Nikoli Koloff vs Al Perez: **
Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard vs Dusty Rhodes and Sting: ***1/2 ​


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> *Clash of the champions 2​*
> 
> Brad Armstrong vs Barry Windham: **1/2
> Fantastics/Sheepherders: ***1/2
> ...


Good to see someone else doing a COTC project. Too bad I stopped at six :lol. I remember kinda liking the opener, but it dragged a lot. And I know it's blasphemy here, but sometimes Barry Windham as a heel just doesn't click. This was one of those times. Fantastics/Sheepherders and the main event tag were both good. Not a fan of the other tag match, but it's not bad. My MOTN was actually Koloff/Perez :side:. I thought it was a crazy sporting competition and I'm a sucker for babyface Koloff for reasons unknown. Overall a pretty good show. I think the next one is the garbage one. Windham/Sting was good from my memory.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah for some reason I was meh on the Koloff match, but the rest of the show was good stuff

Watching Wrestlewar 89 atm, thoughts on the undercard?


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Currently watching The Best of RAW After The Show. This DVD is funny af.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

So much good solo competition this year from all over the board that I plan over some time on rewatching alot of what I had as stellar matches upon first viewing to see how my list would still shake. 
I mean shoot, in an non-ordered, unrated general fashion, here is a list of at least good mono e mono encounters this year off the top of my head to illustrate how deep this year has run even when not halfway through


Cesaro/Cena RAW
Cesaro/Zayn Arrival
Bryan/Cesaro SD encounter with the la mystica set up
Cesaro/Orton SD
Cesaro/Ziggler EC qualifier (sleeper)
Bryan/Orton RAW regular match (where Orton bites Bryan and the match is heavy on psychology)
Christian/Bryan RAW
Bryan/Bray Wyatt RR
HHH/Bryan Mania
Bryan/Kane from a fun factor standpoint (EC)
Bryan/Rio
Cena/Harper RAW even with the finish (SD match was decent but too compact and for time restraint fealt rushed)
Cena/Bray Mania
Sheamus/Barrett EC
ADR/Bryan last night

This list doesn't even factor in Shield/Wyatts, the EC match, Shield miscellaneous work, a few of the good Uso matches this year, Shield/Evolution, that IC fatal fourway on SD.

Speaking of Shield/Evolution, my viewing of EC was shaky, so I ended up watching it today for the first viewing, so while most of you swarmed in and beat me to reviewing not leaving much meat on the bone for me: here were my general thoughts. Agree or disagree, I just ask to respect my opinion as I would yours.

Pros:
While this match will probably be more remembered for the chaotic closing minutes, I really enjoyed the general story of the match that harmonizes with the build. The whole "youth vs experience" clash was greatly highlighted creating a very separate story told from the spontaneous brawls of Shield/Wyatts. The Shield's high energy offense and eagerness to fight leading to a quickened pace while Evolution methodically pick the shield apart, work the rules without completely breaking them and attempting to divide and conquer while trying their best to not venture off separate but stick together in offense to increase efficiency was beautiful to watch. Subtleties like Triple H using his vast ring experience to time out the spear to sidestep it leading Reigns into the steps or as corny as this sounds the quick waving of the hand by the non legal members on the apron to illustrate the eagerness the Shield to get in the ring to attack and show everyone their prowess to highlight the youth augmented this match and nicely aided the story. 

As always,I enjoyed the Shield's members working inside their individual parameters and putting all of it together to mount their potent offense. As he did in the epic Wyatts/Shield encounter, Rollins to me was the top performer on the Shield side and I also enjoyed the continuation of Amrbosse's expanding contributions since Wyatts/Shield II. 

One can feel free to disagree especially since aesthetically this isn't the case, but I felt that Batista put in a surprisingly decent performance on his end. 

Cons:
While this is my initial viewing, I did notice some psychology flaws that while not a major hinderance to the overall story which was told very well, the psychological flaws did annoy a bit. If I could modify this match, I would change some minor things for psychology to polish the match a bit.

Again, one can disagree here, but the major points of this match that aimed to appear spontaneous, on the fly offense to me appeared a bit telegraphed. Something I really appreciate about Wyatt/Shield encounters is that the encounters feel very spontaneous and just a clash of energy and reactive offense. 

I fully understand that Reigns role in the Shield is the closer and "tank" of the Shield, but while Reigns' schtick is at best high impact, very visually appealing, mechanically easy to digest for casual fans and easily recognizable, Reigns once again proved in order to keep the audience captivated without having Dean or Seth to lead, Reigns has a whole lot of polishing to do yet. Not to mention, it has become a recurring fact that Reigns despite appearing to be in great condition is getting gassed frequently as he did again at EC. 

Overall, as I mentioned, I need to some anylitical rewatching/studying to solidify my stance on rankings plus this is my initial viewing of this match, so I don't know where this match places in the thick of things, but I would be comfortable placing this match at ***3/4 stars upon initial viewing. A very good match that in my opinion upon first view comes up just short of great. Yet another very solid showing by these incredibly consistent workhorses the Shield and solid work from Evolution resulting in another very good match in the deep catologue of the Shield.I believe someone stated here that the Shield could stick together for five more years for all they care. I know that isn't going to happen, but I am sure as hell in no rush to pull that trigger and enjoy the run. Interesting to note that Hunter was involved in a terriffic, most likely modern classic once it stands the test of time vs Bryan and now was involved in another very good borderline great match vs the Shield. When was the last time Hunter was in two matches consecutively of the combined caliber?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Holy hell! I'm obviously a couple months late on this but AJ and Natalya had a fantastic match for the Divas Title on the March 11th edition of Main Event. I liked AJ's matches against Kaitlyn and everything but this was most certainly the best match of her entire title reign. Wonderful use of submissions with a shockingly well executed finishing stretch. Natalya was super sharp in the opening minutes and got the shit kicked out of her late in the match.  Easily some of the best crowd reactions I've seen from a Divas match all year. Thinking about tossing *** 1/2 at it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Holy hell! I'm obviously a couple months late on this but AJ and Natalya had a fantastic match for the Divas Title on the March 11th edition of Main Event. I liked AJ's matches against Kaitlyn and everything but this was most certainly the best match of her entire title reign. Wonderful use of submissions with a shockingly well executed finishing stretch. Natalya was super sharp in the opening minutes and got the shit kicked out of her late in the match.  Easily some of the best crowd reactions I've seen from a Divas match all year. Thinking about tossing *** 1/2 at it.


I don't think I ever saw anyone pimp that. Just checked and Meltzer actually has it at ***1/2. Might have to give it a look.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I'm glad some of you guys got something out of Extreme Rules, but that PPV killed any enjoyment I had for the current product. It was utterly terrible from start to finish.

It's honestly quite amazing how atrocious Cena/Wyatt was. Not to beat an old stereotype, but it felt like some backyarder, indy take on wrestling where they had this grandiose belief of a great backstory (a story that's hitting Z-level horror shtick to the point I'd not be surprised if Lindsay Lohan is brought in as Sister Abigail), and yet never once stuck to it. They did moves because MOVEZ~!. There was a point where Cena grinned at the smarky audience before his signature moves. _Fucking grinned_. I thought you were out there saving 'em, John? In that case, surely you'd realise they're all brainwashed by Wyatt, so why take pleasure in their groaning? Besides, why are you escaping the cage? How is winning a cage match via escape going to stop the message? This fucking metaphor of being trapped in a cage makes zero sense to begin with, don't coat-tail even further from it. Wyatt escaping is even worse, quite honestly. He was here to corrupt Cena, not win a random cage match. The match, as a whole, needed the direction of their Wrestlemania encounter because, at least, that stuck to its tale.


As for WotY, I was going to suggest Cesaro but this RVD programme has just derailed his momentum. It's been a long, long time since he's had an outright bad performance but, low-and-behold, RVD got it out of him; TWICE. Though that's probably not hard, when you're wrestling a talentless hack whose idea on structuring a match is plugging in his favourite, overplayed spots purely because he's at a specific section of the ring. Bryan's been on quite a roll, but I still think his output of notable performances (5) is less than Cesaro's (8). Though all this while The Shield collective have been constantly killing it in every opportunity. Rollins is fucking beasting this year, and may just be taking the reigns from Goldust in the hot-tag department. It's damn close whichever way you're cutting it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

For the love of Rah, don't tell me your didn't like Kane/Bryan or Shield/Evolution.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Or Torito/Hornswoggle


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Holy hell! I'm obviously a couple months late on this but AJ and Natalya had a fantastic match for the Divas Title on the March 11th edition of Main Event. I liked AJ's matches against Kaitlyn and everything but this was most certainly the best match of her entire title reign. Wonderful use of submissions with a shockingly well executed finishing stretch. Natalya was super sharp in the opening minutes and got the shit kicked out of her late in the match.  Easily some of the best crowd reactions I've seen from a Divas match all year. Thinking about tossing *** 1/2 at it.


DUD

----------

Finished RAW atm. Proper notes: SHEAMUS holy shit yes. Danielson vs Del Rio having a fine match. Shield vs Wyatts IV - the "weakest" bout yet, but still great. Yay.

Don't blame Rah for his thoughts on the PPV, tbhayley. I can understand it.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Had some more thoughts on Shield/Evolution.

I still don't really like this. The "work over" segment of the match was generic. The hot tag frenzy by Ambrose was nothing to write about and there is nothing interesting about Evolution's work over. They stuck to the meta of the formula and it didn't pay off. A throwback to the old Southern style but they shouldn't of worked it. Should of just been a hotly contested back n forth with no team gaining the advantage until the end, where the better team would shine through. It would of allowed every wrestler to work with portion of the match.

But instead we get Evolution flexing their muscle on two smaller guys to make them look like they are a threat after 10 years out. But the match lacked heat and Evolution don't have chemistry together. It was alright but I have no praise to sing of it.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah, fair enough. Hyperbole aside, I still didn't love both matches. Shield/Evolution was boring as fuck for its beginning, piqued slightly during the middle and then exploded in the final segment. It should have just been a wild brawl from start to finish and not worried about the other nonce they threw in. Kane/Bryan was a decent brawl but Danielson's been in so much better. I know it's Kane, and I should lower my expectations, but ugh. Not a fan, at all, of the tripe means of getting their action to the back, either, nor much the point of why it went there. To where they booked in to, the forklift spot made somewhat sense (how else would Bryan carry him back?) but it dragged on longer than need be. Bless Bryan for driving that thing with safety, he has a good heart for his opponents.

It coming at the end of a PPV that deflated and bored me doesn't help invest me into the match, either.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson being an experienced forklift master only made me enjoy the moment more. Worked it like a natural. I fully understand any lack of real care to think it was a "special" match. Def not going to rock the world for everyone who sees it.

And Rah _(and Desecrated too)_ dead on w/my thoughts about the six man. Although, he - Rah - is even less impressed w/it than I was. Neat. I swear, toss in some mediocre brawling in the crowd and all of a sudden it gets love that I just didn't see in the slightest.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Bad News Barrett, that is all :barrett


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

4th time is the charm. :sansa


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Bad News :clap Bad News :clap Bad News :clap


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Rah said:


> As for WotY, I was going to suggest Cesaro but this RVD programme has just derailed his momentum. It's been a long, long time since he's had an outright bad performance but, low-and-behold, RVD got it out of him; TWICE. Though that's probably not hard, when you're wrestling a talentless hack whose idea on structuring a match is plugging in his favourite, overplayed spots purely because he's at a specific section of the ring. Bryan's been on quite a roll, but I still think his output of notable performances (5) is less than Cesaro's (8). Though all this while The Shield collective have been constantly killing it in every opportunity. Rollins is fucking beasting this year, and may just be taking the reigns from Goldust in the hot-tag department. It's damn close whichever way you're cutting it.


Precisely why I said Cesaro isn't my WOTY when I brought up the topic earlier (I think it was me?). He hasn't done anything good since WrestleMania, and his match on the big show was more of a cool moment than a strong performance/match. Didn't see the Swagger bout on SmackDown. I'll go ahead and assume it was good but I don't recall anybody raving about it. RVD is just so goddamn bad. I swear I'd rather watch Kofi Kingston. 

I'd be interested in hearing your 5 notable Bryan performances and 8 Cesaro ones.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RVD "getting his shit in" way >>> than the worst of the worst's excuse for offense when he's sticking it in every match for whatever reason.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Oh don't get me wrong, most of what Kofi does on offense is worst stuff ever levels of badness. I don't know though, maybe I'd get a kick out of it because of how bad it is or he'll do a crazy bump or something. Van Dam gives me zero enjoyment. At least Cesaro had a really good match with Kingston.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

MNM vs London & Kendrick from JD 2006 is far away the best tag match of 2006 imo, I'd probably throw ****1/4 stars at it but run the risk of being labelled as crazy, don't care. ****1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm both surprised & not surprised at what Cesaro did w/a lifeless vessel like that. Cesaro made a great match all by himself last year vs Kingston, but he's the type of company rube to just go w/the flow and let someone else do whatever may be best. While RVD on the other hand, is a vet, w/a known ego, and yeah, wouldn't be caught dead letting Cesaro have a chance to mold anything in the ring the way he did w/the other man in question. Which is a damn shame. Especially w/RVD in the twilight of his career. You bump well, let Cesaro mess you up in impressive fashion. He's so talented that he can make RVD look good w/o any effort on Van Dam's own part. That should be the selling point for him _(RVD)_ right there.

But I just love how Cesaro made something literally out of nothing last year. That's too fabulous.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Van Dam's elbows are horrendous, but at the very least an opponent can lean in to make it look like they kind of, sort, possibly, actually hit. I've never seen anybody make Kofi's strikes look truly effective. Ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If someone can make one of those flimsy leaping clotheslines look good, they deserve anything they desire.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> I'd be interested in hearing your 5 notable Bryan performances and 8 Cesaro ones.


Came up with a couple more, still favoured towards Cesaro, though:

*Bryan:*
Cesaro Smackdown 2/19
_Wyatt Royal Rumble_
Cesaro Smackdown ??? (I didn't take the date down)
Elimination Chamber
Orton Raw 3/02
HHH 'Mania
ADR Raw 5/05



*Cesaro:*
Cena Raw 2/17
Real Americans Vs Sheamus/Christian Raw 2/20
Real Americans Vs Rhodes Bros Raw 1/06
Bryan Smackdown 2/19
Orton Smackdown 2/11
Bryan Smackdown ??? (I didn't take the date down)
Rhodes Bros Main Event 3/18
Elimination Chamber
_Zayn NXT 2/27_


As said, Bryan's lows > Cesaro's but I'd take the latter's highs (italics is best performance). They're both wrestlers who have mastered a particular formula and, when they go to them, look world class. I was double-thinking adding Bryan/ADR to that list, but it's a clear example of how Bryan works his own formula and why his hope-spots and FIP segments energise the crowd so much. His timing is ludicrously good.


Also, pointless list of how I'd probably take wrestlers so far


1) Cesaro/Bryan (cop-out~!)
3) Seth Rollins
4) Hechicero
5) Virus
6) Dean Ambrose
7) ***** Casas
8) Tomohiro Ishii
9) Charles Lucero
10) Roman Reigns/Luke Harper


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Rah said:


> Came up with a couple more, still favoured towards Cesaro, though:
> 
> *Bryan:*
> Cesaro Smackdown 2/19
> ...


Right on. I'd add the Mania triple threat to Bryan's list but I know you didn't like that. Also Bryan had a match with Christian (on Raw I believe) with good arm work and selling that I enjoyed. Don't think I saw the Real Americans/Rhodes Bros main event tag. The one on Raw was certainly good for sure. Didn't quite make the cut off for my 2014 list though. Did Bryan and Cesaro really have two matches this year? I remember one, completely blanking on the second. 

Loving the appreciation for Ambrose. He's so much better as a face. Harper would definitely be in my top 10 but I only watch WWE so that pretty much goes without saying. Let me see what I can come up with.

1. Bryan
2. Rollins
3. Cesaro
4. Ambrose
5. Harper
6. Orton
7. Wyatt
8. Cena
9. Sheamus
10. idk, Rowan or Reigns or maybe Christian

I don't know if I can really justify having Rollins above Cesaro but I felt like putting him there so whatever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Zayn makes my top ten. I dunno if that would be worldwide, but as far as WWE goes, he must get a plug atm. Must.

Orton in a top ten list is...different. Especially over someone like Sheamus who is still phenomenal. Love Cena, but he's only had about two matches to take notice on in 2014. While both have been GREAT, the entire catalog of others just doesn't compare. Ok, I looked and there are a few more Cena matches out there _(d'oh at me not initially acknowledging Cena vs Harper II)_ but still, they're mostly good matches w/proper elements behind 'em, and nothing to compare to the others, as I said.

No order b/c I don't have time for that: Zayn, Danielson, Cesaro, Sheamus, Harper, Rollins, Ambrose, Reigns, Wyatt, & probably Rowan.

Guys like Christian, Goldust, Swagger, & Titus O'Neil are all alternates for the tail end. It mostly just stops them b/c they pretty much don't have as much as any of the other guys listed. So it's great quality + as much as it has been done. Does that sound dumb? Probably. I hate lists. I just wanted to acknowledge how awesome these 15 dudes are. This is now a top 15 list. I like that.

Dammit. Adrian Neville doesn't deserve a snub either. He's been having a pretty darn good year himself.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I was just thinking about main roster guys when I made my list, otherwise Zayn would be there for sure. Sheamus is a better worker than Orton no question but for me Randy's done more this year. Of course a lot of that is down to him having more opportunities to shine but I thought he was legitimately good in the Cesaro SD match, great in the Bryan Raw match, and all of his PPV matches have been hits except for the Rumble. I was gonna put Sheamus above Cena because he's had more good matches but it was a case of Cena's best stuff (v Cesaro on Raw and v Wyatt at WM) trumping him. Now that I think about it Cena's had a couple stinkers, most recently at Extreme Rules, so maybe I would swap him and Sheamus.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All Orton has for me is the great match vs Danielson. So that's even less than Cena. Even TV stuff too. The Cesaro match made my list of "good, watchable" matches, but I still never extended on it being anything TOO, too special. Like it's good, and that's that. Orton hasn't exactly been shit or anything this year, but def forgettable.

I do think the triple threat match is great, but that was only b/c of Danielson. Not saying what Orton & even Batista did wasn't fine or served a purpose to keeping it going along, however, w/o Danielson, that match would have been nothing. He was the life force behind it. Plain and simple. Made every moment pop just by being out there. The taking out of Trips, Steph, & Armstrong. The nearfalls. The death by table bump. Recovering and coming back from the stretcher. The victory. It all was dictated to be around him, while the other two fill in the roles of road blocks. Nothing wrong w/it. Exactly how it should have been from my perspective. His other PPV matches he did shit all to be acknowledged as impressive.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I still say the Orton/Bryan December match is by far their best one.

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----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Figured I should make a list too for 2014. Counting only WWE.

1. Bryan
2. Cesaro
3. Rollins
4. Ambrose
5. Orton
6. Sheamus
7. Harper
8. Bray
9. Cena
10. Swagger

Didn't include NXT talent.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

More Orton & Cena 8*D


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

:clap


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

I've been digging Orton's work this year for the most part and Cena well, couldn't think of anyone else in that position.

Wait, maybe I should have added in Reigns instead.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Watched the 6 man again and picked up on a lot of stuff I didn't before. The Ambrose/Hunter exchange with the wild punching was a lot of fun and I take back what I said about big Dave. He was more than solid in this and seems to be right back in the groove again. I really hope we get a proper Batista vs. Bryan program this year. I think they could have some cracking matches. Reigns is just a badass but he didn't do anything outside the hot tag and final exchange. Then again, those were 2 of the best parts of the match lol. I don't get the hate for the start of this either. It seemed much crisper this time around and moved at a great pace. I enjoyed it even more than the first time. Awesome match and I'm sticking with ****1/2 for now. I also saw that I still have EC saved on the sky box so I can watch the Wyatt match and see what one REIGNS surpreme 8*D. 

Cena has the Cesaro match and the Wyatt Mania match but I can't think of anything else of his that's on the same level quality wise. Considering the fact that his character is reaching unbearable levels of annoying again, I can't see myself enjoying much of his work atm unless something changes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> MNM vs London & Kendrick from JD 2006 is far away the best tag match of 2006 imo, I'd probably throw ****1/4 stars at it but run the risk of being labelled as crazy, don't care. ****1/4


I have it a little lower at ***3/4 but it's a tremendous tag match no doubt. I have the 4 way tag ladder from Armageddon above it, and above THAT I have the Foley/Edge/Lita Vs Funk/Dreamer/Bullah(sp?) from ONS. Don't think Raw has anything close to these 3 haha.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Best Tag match of 2006 is probably - well, SURELY - the Armageddon Ladder 4-Way. But w/gimmicks aside, yeah MNM/Londrick is a good shout out off my head.

On the topic of RVD being a Swing-Killer, this latest Cesaro/RVD match was kinda fun imo, however the very first match between these two was really meh, but on the expectactions for CESARO, it sucked hard. RVD did kinda halt Cesaro's momentum in a way.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'd say Heyman has halted Cesaro more than anything else. They just aren't working as a duo at all. Is the Armageddon tag match the one where Mercury gets his face busted? Yeouch.

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----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Where is Kazuki Hashimoto on that list?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Starbuck, yes the Armageddon Tag is the one where Mercury is nosekilled.

Not sure if I talked about it but I thought Bryan/ADR from Raw was very good, but at the same time, I couldn't get quite into it. Still, gave it some worthy ***1/2 for what they did but I'm sure it would be higher if:
1) the crowd cared;
2) I cared.
ADR is beyond caring himself tbh.

Smackdown stuff I'm interested in this week:


Spoiler: SD



- Sheamus vs. Dean Ambrose
- Mark Henry vs. Roman Reigns
- *6-MAN TAG TEAM MATCH OMGOMG: THE WYATTS vs. Cena & Usos* _(Ugh, that means Cena/Wyatt feud is still going)_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That 6 man tag on SD looks awful. Other 2 matches interest me. Hope the second one actually gets... uhh, what's that thing call? Oh yeah. TIME.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm still interested in the 6-Man Tag because it's the fucking Buzzards Followers, because it's a modern day 6-Man Tag (which, umm, usually ALWAYS work), and because


Spoiler: SD match result



the Wyatts win and actually GET FUCKING PUT OVER PROPERLY... I think.



Tbh, ever since the Shield arrived, rare is the 6-Man Tag that sucks as far as I remember. And in 2014 especially, I don't remember one that did suck. Even the Matadores & Torito/3MB ones were entertaining iirc.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cal, any chance you could upload Shield/Wyatt's from Main Event and Monday's Raw?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I ain't got either unfortunately.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

God Darn it. 

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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I WAS doing my own Best of 2014 set... but I kinda gave up at EC, so I have nothing from after that show .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of that, I think that regarding the order of preference for the Shield/Wyatts saga, I think that 1st and 2nd places go to Elimination Chamber and Main Event rather easily. That being said, the two Raw matches are still **** in my mind, but which do you prefer? Round II or Round IV?

I, like in my list, had II as a honorable mention for a Shield Top 10, whereas IV made the cut. This because while IV suffered from an AWFUL crowd, the work was just as good as the Main Event match (obviously didn't touch EC). While II certainly a hot crowd in Chicago, but the beggining of the match, after Rollins' initial madman streak, just felt... off. Like it wasn't clicking. Rushed. However, they did pick up their strides and got out something amazing, with a totally different story than the first match. That being said, IV is my preference here.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Spoiler: Smackdown



There is also that Rollins vs Batista match on SD :ex:. Plus, we might see heel Henry?! I'm sure that match was pretty short, though.

SD Card: 

Ambrose vs Sheamus
Cesaro/BNB vs Big E/RVD
Rusev vs Kofi
Fandango/Layla vs Santino/Emma
Reigns vs Henry
Matadores/Torito vs 3MB (minus Mahal)/Hornswoggle
Rollins vs Batista
Wyatts vs Cena/Usos


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Where is Kazuki Hashimoto on that list?


Somewhere near Shigehiro Irie.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Quick Points off the last fee pgs

-RVD Sucks

- RVD has brought down The King of Swing

- Not writing it off, but only Marks were creaming at Cesaro/Heyman alliance just because its PAUL E. It may work down the road, but not now it hasnt

- Cena has only had 2 memorable matches this year (mania and cesaro raw), same with orton (need to re watch the 6 man)

- I love Orton/bryan 2/3 with all my heart

-Bryan is WOTY thus far by far, but King of Swing will catch up

- I hate Barrett with all my heart


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

NAITCH said:


> Quick Points off the last fee pgs
> 
> -RVD Sucks
> 
> ...


I hate you (and Cal) with all my heart. And I'm sure everybody else agrees. (Don't really mean it Skins but Barrett I'll defend at any cost, just pointing that out)

Oh, and *I've got some bad news for ya*: BAD NEWS BARRETT IS FUCKING AWESOME.

:barrett


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Man, I am listening to JRs podcast with Shawn Michaels and Shawn is giving his thoughts on WM 30. Apparently, and Shawn was backstage and he saw all this go down, the decision to end the Streak was made by Vince, not Taker, and the decision was made only 4 hours before the show started. Taker agreed to the Brock match and went in expecting to win, Vince made the decision that Brock was gonna beat him, and Taker semi-reluctantly went along with it cause it was the Boss's orders. That kind of bothers me, that a decision that big and important wasn't made until the 11th hour and it wasn't made by Taker. I know Vince is the boss, but damn, after all Taker has done for that company he should atleast be allowed input on whether or not the Streak was gonna end. This is a bummer, I was only able to stomach Taker losing a.) because I thought it was 100% his decision to lose and b.) because I thought it would lead to Brock doing bigger and better things in the WWE. I was totally wrong on both counts, it would seem.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Man, I am listening to JRs podcast with Shawn Michaels and Shawn is giving his thoughts on WM 30. Apparently, and Shawn was backstage and he saw all this go down, the decision to end the Streak was made by Vince, not Taker, and the decision was made only 4 hours before the show started. Taker agreed to the Brock match and went in expecting to win, Vince made the decision that Brock was gonna beat him, and Taker semi-reluctantly went along with it cause it was the Boss's orders. That kind of bothers me, that a decision that big and important wasn't made until the 11th hour and it wasn't made by Taker. I know Vince is the boss, but damn, after all Taker has done for that company he should atleast be allowed input on whether or not the Streak was gonna end. This is a bummer, I was only able to stomach Taker losing a.) because I thought it was 100% his decision to lose and b.) because I thought it would lead to Brock doing bigger and better things in the WWE. I was totally wrong on both counts, it would seem.


Fucking shite isn't it? It's like Vince just tossed a coin that morning or something and decided yeah fuck it, streak is ending today. 

It's obviously no real surprise it was Vince as he is the boss, but come the fuck on, this is the fucking Undertaker, and the streak for crying out loud. It should have been Taker's depiction, and it sounds like they don't even have a long term plan for Brock after all this either.

I thought Taker had decided to retire and that is why he lost, but I guess that wasn't the case and it comes across like the Flair situation, Vince has called time on Taker's career.

We'll see I guess. 

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----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Fucking shite isn't it? It's like Vince just tossed a coin that morning or something and decided yeah fuck it, streak is ending today.
> 
> It's obviously no real surprise it was Vince as he is the boss, but come the fuck on, this is the fucking Undertaker, and the streak for crying out loud. It should have been Taker's depiction, and it sounds like they don't even have a long term plan for Brock after all this either.
> 
> ...



Paul E. said on Austin's podcast that someone asked him after WM 30 "does this mean we will get to see more of Brock Lesnar?" And Paul just chuckled and said "not a chance, he won't be back anytime soon". Fuck me if this doesn't make that match that much more depressing. I'd say they should have just had Punk beat him last year, but Punks ass walked out too. So that begs the question: why not just let it continue? Build a heel up for this entire year and then have him go over Taker at WM 31, if they were really so determined to have the Streak end. Now, they are just having Paul rant about Brock beating the Streak over and over and it's just absolutely killing any hope of chemistry between Heyman and Cesaro. The only way this works is if they are intentionally having things become strained between Cesaro and Heyman so they can build to a Summerslam match between Cesaro and Lesnar. I hope to god that's the plan because otherwise this pairing is going absolutely nowhere. They just don't have chemistry it would seem. Cesaro had really good chemistry with Zeb, it would be a shame if they ended that pairing with no end plan in mind, but it would also be a VERY WWE thing to do.

Plus, they absolutely could have had a Swagger/Cesaro program out of this, no clue at all why they squashed that and threw RVD in there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, why the FUCK is RVD even apart of this feud with Swagger and Cesaro? Seriously? He's a useless twat and has no business being wedged into this feud that COULD have been a fun. RVD and Kofi should team up but never actually wrestle or appear on TV.

Well, I've got some time to kill until... well... Friday is the next time I have anything planned. So that's lots of time. Gonna watch some wrestling. And if you think I'm gonna watch any of those Wade Barrett matches, then I've got some BAD NEWS. I'm gonna watch some matches from great wrestlers instead. Roll on more Memphis! My top 100 1980's list has 9 matches on it so far, 7 are Lawler matches, all are from Memphis :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im determined to watch Lawler/Savage from Memphis this week lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cal, if you die before watching any of the recommended Sheamus/Barrett stuff (and if you do watch it and purposefully try to hate on it because Barrett's on it), then you didn't deserve the culture you owned in your life. BARRETT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I love those Sheamus vs Barrett matches, but Cal is watching Memphis. He's made a good choice. Better than what I just watched. Urgh.



> Man, I am listening to JRs podcast with Shawn Michaels and Shawn is giving his thoughts on WM 30. Apparently, and Shawn was backstage and he saw all this go down, the decision to end the Streak was made by Vince, not Taker, and the decision was made only 4 hours before the show started. Taker agreed to the Brock match and went in expecting to win, Vince made the decision that Brock was gonna beat him, and Taker semi-reluctantly went along with it cause it was the Boss's orders. That kind of bothers me, that a decision that big and important wasn't made until the 11th hour and it wasn't made by Taker. I know Vince is the boss, but damn, after all Taker has done for that company he should atleast be allowed input on whether or not the Streak was gonna end. This is a bummer, I was only able to stomach Taker losing a.) because I thought it was 100% his decision to lose and b.) because I thought it would lead to Brock doing bigger and better things in the WWE. I was totally wrong on both counts, it would seem.


^and this is utter tripe news to discover, btw


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What did you just watch Cody?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THEY HAD A GOOD MATCH ONE TIME IN 2008, iirc, so I got suckered in. Having my brain randomly say, _"may as well try and see every ROH World Championship match.."_ was a big mistake. This crap is worthless. I just hope Moops doesn't slander me for wasting my time w/the notorious turd.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

In a Kane Mood


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Watch Bryan/Kane ER again then


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lol I've watched it 3x already, I guess I'll re watch the 6 man again


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Watch Kane/Hunter Chain Match Judgement Day 2001

Or the Belfast Brawl with Finlay on Smackdown in 2007.

Or Kane/Viscera from Backlash

Hayley- when you said the news was "utter tripe" did you mean that it was really shitty to have to learn it went down that way, or that I should have known all along that Vince was the one who made the call?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Kane/Albert from Smackdown 2001.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Man, I am listening to JRs podcast with Shawn Michaels and Shawn is giving his thoughts on WM 30. Apparently, and Shawn was backstage and he saw all this go down, the decision to end the Streak was made by Vince, not Taker, and the decision was made only 4 hours before the show started. Taker agreed to the Brock match and went in expecting to win, Vince made the decision that Brock was gonna beat him, and Taker semi-reluctantly went along with it cause it was the Boss's orders. That kind of bothers me, that a decision that big and important wasn't made until the 11th hour and it wasn't made by Taker. I know Vince is the boss, but damn, after all Taker has done for that company he should atleast be allowed input on whether or not the Streak was gonna end. This is a bummer, I was only able to stomach Taker losing a.) because I thought it was 100% his decision to lose and b.) because I thought it would lead to Brock doing bigger and better things in the WWE. I was totally wrong on both counts, it would seem.


Disagree about b). Whenever Lesnar comes back (e.g every Summerslam + Wrestlemania), it's going to be a huge, main event match. He should go a couple of years unbeaten (it could even be more than a few years, a proper.. streak, if you will) where he's beating the likes of Cena to reach the point where he is considered absolutely unstoppable, even more so than he is now, then who ever is hot can beat him and give them an almighty push.

Taker's a pro and always wanted to go out on his back and give someone else a push - read loads of times he offered to end the streak to Kane, legend-killer Orton etc. Yeah it sucks that he didn't really have a say, but he looked fucked in their match anyway - I know he was concussed, but there was only so long he could keep going and putting on good matches.

Overall it was for the best. Provided one of the most unforgettable memories, made WM30 one of the best, and has made Lesnar into a massive force.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The future booking will determine this whole Lesnar breaking the streak.......thing. 

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----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> The future booking will determine this whole Lesnar breaking the streak.......thing.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App



Yep. I'm going to reserve judgement until a future date. But regardless of how they use Lesnar, it just really bums me out that Taker wasn't the one to make the call on the Streak ending. He is the ultimate pro, he's beyond reproach as far as universal respect goes, it shouldn't have gone down like that. Not 4 hours before show time. Like it's a finish to a house show match or something. It would just sit easier with me. I feel like if you are gonna end something like the Streak, which to me is as big as anything in the business, you should be spending months working on the creative for it. Do you think Vince would decide 4 hours before show time to have Hogan drop the belt in 1986? I don't think so, and the Streak to me is just as big as that.

Oh and Skins-one more, and this one I would say you should watch first if you haven't already seen it: Kane vs Mankind Survivor Series 1997. It's a great match and it gets totally slept on for the most part when discussing Kane's best matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yup. The way it was planned stinks imo. I do wonder what Taker thought when he was told, as it looks like Vince has given him a reason to retire, whether he wants to or not.

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----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Awesome Jake Roberts promo from Tuesday In Texas, Also includes Savage's promo too:


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

They're lucky it was Heyman/Brock who broke the streak because there's a lot more legs with them than there would be for anyone else on the roster (besides a heel Cena).


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Man, I am listening to JRs podcast with Shawn Michaels and Shawn is giving his thoughts on WM 30. Apparently, and Shawn was backstage and he saw all this go down, the decision to end the Streak was made by Vince, not Taker, and the decision was made only 4 hours before the show started. Taker agreed to the Brock match and went in expecting to win, Vince made the decision that Brock was gonna beat him, and Taker semi-reluctantly went along with it cause it was the Boss's orders. That kind of bothers me, that a decision that big and important wasn't made until the 11th hour and it wasn't made by Taker. I know Vince is the boss, but damn, after all Taker has done for that company he should atleast be allowed input on whether or not the Streak was gonna end. This is a bummer, I was only able to stomach Taker losing a.) because I thought it was 100% his decision to lose and b.) because I thought it would lead to Brock doing bigger and better things in the WWE. I was totally wrong on both counts, it would seem.


Just 'cause Vince made the final decision four hours before, doesn't mean that Vince wasn't thinking about it long before. He probably wanted to keep his cards close to his chest, and who knows if Shawn even knows if Taker and Vince were going back and forth over it long before.

Heyman's "Brock will defeat Taker at Wrestlemania, and that's not a prediction, that's a _spoiler._" line on the RAW before WM, comes off now as some sort of inside joke to me. Like Heyman was so giddy that he was blatantly telling us what will happen, but he could do it and get away with it because no one on Earth really took that seriously, lol. That's brilliant.

But yeah, I don't believe that this was a spur of the moment thing for Vince. He as least was heavily weighing it beforehand. Remember the reports about how Vince didn't even want Taker to be touched in promo lead ups to the match, until finally giving in on the last RAW?

Vince 100% made the right call, because Taker's body looked like it was about to give up, and it would have been pointless from a business, non-Taker mark standpoint, if his body couldn't go anymore before putting someone over.




ArnoldTricky said:


> I know he was concussed, but there was only so long he could keep going and putting on good matches.
> 
> Overall it was for the best. Provided one of the most unforgettable memories, made WM30 one of the best, and has made Lesnar into a massive force.


Agreed. Now they better not mess it up by having Brock lose or win meekly. Decisive victories for awhile, leading up to putting someone over big in the end.


Speaking of Brock, how was his match with Nakanishi in Japan? Brock recently said that someone close to him told him that it was one of the best matches he'd ever seen of Brock's.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

My Extreme Rules match ratings...

WeeLC match: Match standpoint *** Entertainment standpoint ****3/4.
RVD/Swagger/Cesaro: **3/4
Rusev: Honestly who cares?
Barrett/Langston: ***1/2
Shield/Evolution: ****1/4
Wyatt/Cena: **1/4
Tamina/Paige: ***
Kane/Bryan ****1/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Speaking of Brock, how was his match with Nakanishi in Japan? Brock recently said that someone close to him told him that it was one of the best matches he'd ever seen of Brock's.


Nah most of Brock's stuff over there is pretty bleh outside of the Nakamura and Giant Bernard matches that some like. The two are solid but dont come anywhere close to "Best" and Brock Lesnar


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

posted on another thread but here is Metzler's Star Ratings For Extreme Rules:

Hornswoggle/EL Torito - ***
RVD vs Cesaro vs Swagger - **1/2
Rusev vs Truth/Wodds - 3/4*
BNB vs Big E - ***
Shield vs Evolution - ****1/2
Cena vs Wyatt - *3/4
Paige vs Tamina - **
Kane vs Daniel Bryan - ***1/2


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If you flip the ratings for RVD/Cesaro/Swagger and BNB/Big E, those are almost identical to my own personal ratings. Should I be ashamed?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tbh Big E/Barrett was, like, WAY better than I would've ever hoped. I know Barrett is God, but he's no Chris Benoit in the ring (hell, he's no Sheamus in the ring), so I wouldn't have expected in a millenium that he would play a very convincing Sheamus and club the holy shit outta Big Manboobs for like 8 mins, which was glorious and made for a rather decent match.

GIMME A BAD; GIMME A NEWS; GIMME A GODDAMN *BARRETT* :barrett


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Watch Kane/Hunter Chain Match Judgement Day 2001
> 
> Or the Belfast Brawl with Finlay on Smackdown in 2007.
> 
> ...


The former.

Pearly Kane recs. vs Vis is excellent.



The Hitman said:


> Kane/Albert from Smackdown 2001.


Another stellar one.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I get kind of annoyed when I see people say that Hornswaggl/El Torito was good "from an entertainment" standpoint. It was a match and it was more enjoyable than 90% of the matches that I see on a daily. If you aren't rating/reviewing/critiquing/whatever matches from an entertainment standpoint how are you looking at them? 

I don't think any of the other aspects matter if the match isn't entertaining. If the champion is a big giant that's strong and has huge arms it would tell a story and be psychologically smart if the champion put his opponent in a headlock, say down in the middle of the ring, and didn't let for for 60 minutes. But that would be the worst thing ever to watch. 

I'm not saying that things like a story and working intelligently don't impact what I think about a match but the main reason they do is I find it entertaining when those things are done well.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TaylorFitz said:


> I get kind of annoyed when I see people say that Hornswaggl/El Torito was good "from an entertainment" standpoint. It was a match and it was more enjoyable than 90% of the matches that I see on a daily. If you aren't rating/reviewing/critiquing/whatever matches from an entertainment standpoint how are you looking at them?
> 
> I don't think any of the other aspects matter if the match isn't entertaining. If the champion is a big giant that's strong and has huge arms it would tell a story and be psychologically smart if the champion put his opponent in a headlock, say down in the middle of the ring, and didn't let for for 60 minutes. But that would be the worst thing ever to watch.
> 
> I'm not saying that things like a story and working intelligently don't impact what I think about a match but the main reason they do is I find it entertaining when those things are done well.



:clap


I feel pretty much the same way. Usually telling a good story leads to me experiencing more entertainment with the match, so those two qualities go hand in hand for the most part, but they are not mutually inclusive. For instance, Bray vs Cena Cage Match told a story well in the ring, I just didn't happen to personally care for the story at all or in the way they went about telling it. Hornswoggle vs Torito didn't really have a story going, but I enjoyed that match roughly infinity times more than the Cena/Bray debacle.

When critiquing or rating the match, the first and most important thing I look for is "was this fun to watch?" If they answer is yes, it's all gravy from there. Ratings are really just a way for me to quanitfy the level of entertainment experienced. I think it was Yeah1993 or Funnyfaces who said they don't bother rating anything that they would give less than ***, and personally I think that's rather genius. *** is the cut off level for matches in which I was entertained from bell to bell. If the wrestlers involved can't even manage to make me enjoy myself while watching a match, then what's the point in giving it a rating of say *1/4? There really isn't, atleast in my view.


Just watched Midnight Express vs The Fantastics from COTC I. My goodness what a match. This is a STRONG contender for MotY for 1988. This is pretty much the definition of what I think tag team wrestling should be all about. Eaton and Lane were just the sleaziest, most vicious animals on the planet and the Fantastics took the beating of their life and sold like they were being tortured by Jack Bauer. Wonderful match, as good as any of the more notorious Rock n Roll/Midnight matches that I've seen.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

So Vince couldn't have told Taker if he knew beforehand? What a stupid thing to do. Not that the streak had any reason to end anyway. They have no idea how to build up a proper heel on their own so they had to waste that away to do it. When is the next time Lesnar's even going to have a match? 



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> My top 100 1980's list has 9 matches on it so far, 7 are Lawler matches, all are from Memphis :lmao.


Nine!? Shit, you have twice the amount I do. You know it's bad when you're behind Cal.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> So Vince couldn't have told Taker if he knew beforehand? What a stupid thing to do. Not that the streak had any reason to end anyway. They have no idea how to build up a proper heel on their own so they had to waste that away to do it. When is the next time Lesnar's even going to have a match?
> 
> 
> 
> Nine!? Shit, you have twice the amount I do. You know it's bad when you're behind Cal.




Summerslam for sure. Most likely Cesaro IMO. He'll eventually get tired of the "my client Brock Lesnar conqored the streak" and say I'm better than your client or some shit. 

Bryan? Highly doubt it if he's still champ 

Batista? Dave is a heel now and I'm pretty sure a face turn will absolutely not work 

Orton? A big maybe. I can see a face turn from him over Batista though.

Outside of those 4 I really can't see Lesnar facing anyone else. Whoever it is, they for sure won't go over Lesnar at SS.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> Nine!? Shit, you have twice the amount I do. You know it's bad when you're behind Cal.


10 now . And it's another Lawler match :lmao.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> When critiquing or rating the match, the first and most important thing I look for is "was this fun to watch?" If they answer is yes, it's all gravy from there. Ratings are really just a way for me to quanitfy the level of entertainment experienced. I think it was Yeah1993 or Funnyfaces who said they don't bother rating anything that they would give less than ***, and personally I think that's rather genius. *** is the cut off level for matches in which I was entertained from bell to bell.


I do the same thing and make a note if it was extra special and a match I'd want to watch multiple times in a short span of time.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> 10 now . And it's another Lawler match :lmao.



Is the No DQ match with Funk on there? That's a match I would pay $10 just to have a Blu Ray quality version of.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It certainly is on my list, but only #6 atm. And it's gonna drop WAAAAAY down the list once I get into a ton of other stuff.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ATF said:


> Tbh Big E/Barrett was, like, WAY better than I would've ever hoped. I know Barrett is God, but he's no Chris Benoit in the ring (hell, he's no Sheamus in the ring), so I wouldn't have expected in a millenium that he would play a very convincing Sheamus and club the holy shit outta Big Manboobs for like 8 mins, which was glorious and made for a rather decent match.
> 
> GIMME A BAD; GIMME A NEWS; GIMME A GODDAMN *BARRETT* :barrett


As a huge Barrett mark, I went into Barrett/Langston expecting to be close to a DUD. Barrett's gotten to be pretty good in the ring, but I didn't think he would mesh well with Big E and be able to carry him to an even decent match. It ended up being a pretty good bout, and I'm throwing **3/4 at it. Their Raw match though... now that was garbage. Hopefully Barrett gets away from Big E asap so Big E doesn't ruin Barrett's swag... he's already fucked up Barrett's Raw MOTN streak. 

Also on the topic of re-watches, also re-watched Shield/Evolution and Bryan/Kane. Shield/Evo stays the same for me. I didn't buy into the whole "Evolution keeping it old school" story, nor the "They're giving The Shield a taste of their own medicine" story. The former just felt like plodding typical heel work, nothing more, and the latter was already done at EC and has been done a few times since, to the point it doesn't have the same effect anymore. Getting past that, the brawl through the crowd was still awesome, Ambrose and Rollins were still awesome, and the match remains a great one as a whole looking back. I can tell it's going to be one of those matches that'll be on my "most overrated" list, but as I (kind of) said before, if Evolution and Shield can take those last 5 minutes and spread it out for 15-20 in a tornado tag style match, that could be a fucking classic and deserve something like the ****1/2 ratings I've seen thrown at the ER match. To each his own though, and I'm sure we can all agree it was a great match. ***1/2 for it.

Bryan/Kane... I'll be honest, I can't see what others see in it. It just feels like it drags on and on and on. Overall my opinion on it did increase, I appreciate more the fact that it was an Extreme Rules match and they really played it up with all the weapons, going backstage, the flaming table, etc. It just kinda felt like everything was a bit half-assed to me. Flying Headbutt off the fork lift was a great sight, but the match left me feeling empty. Funnily enough, I mentioned how I thought Shield/Evolution would be in my "most overrated 2014" list, but this would probably top the list. It wasn't "bad", but something felt really really off about it. **1/2 for it. 

WeeLC is still easily second best MOTN. I'd go something like ***1/4 on it. This is how you do a super fun Extreme Rules style match. It's one of those matches I can just go back to over and over again. If you haven't seen it because you expect it to be shit, watch it and feel wrong thinking that! 

So overall, my opinion on ER wasn't very high. Kinda "bleh" tbh.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Who in the world would take the belt off of Bryan in the next 3 months? With his massive popularity I see him most definitely being in line for a long run. Bryan vs. Lesnar at Summerslam is without a doubt the biggest match the company can assemble for the show and makes the most sense. Brock LESNAR just beat the streak. He hasn't lost a match since Wrestlemania 29 (4-0 since). He already declared himself #1 contender when he returned in January, now he has a rightful reason to do so again. If they go any other direction, I think I might be disappointed. It would be so unpredictable. Can Bryan retain against the guy who BROKE THE FUCKING STREAK!?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Who in the world would take the belt off of Bryan in the next 3 months? With his massive popularity I see him most definitely being in line for a long run. Bryan vs. Lesnar at Summerslam is without a doubt the biggest matches the company can assemble for the show and makes the most sense. Brock LESNAR just beat the streak. He hasn't lost a match since Wrestlemania 29 (4-0 since). He already declared himself #1 contender when he returned in January, now he has a rightful reason to do so again. If they go any other direction, I think I might be disappointed. It would be so unpredictable. Can Bryan retain against the guy who BROKE THE FUCKING STREAK!?




IMO they should save that for WM. You just can't have Lesnar lose his next match after breaking the streak..... just NO NO NO. 

And I totally forgot an opponent for Lesnar at SS...... Lesnar vs Cena II?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pretty sure Lesnar not going for the Championship at SummerSlam would be the worst booking decision of the year. Naturally, WWE will have to go through w/it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Am I wrong for disliking Jerry Lawler's performance in his loser leaves town match against Randy Savage? That match felt so much like Hogan/Savage from WM V. Not saying it's a bad match (I actually think it's very good). But I would give almost all of the credit to Randy Savage.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Pretty sure Lesnar not going for the Championship at SummerSlam would be the worst booking decision of the year. Naturally, WWE will have to go through w/it.


Exactly what I'm sayin. You just had this guy beat the streak. How can you downgrade him to anything other than a match with Bryan? A program with Cesaro would be a step backwards like the streak ending didn't even occur, a rematch with Cena would make sense if he's somehow the champ, but that's really where it ends. Not sure how he could get involved with anyone else like Orton, Shield, or Sheamus.



xdoomsayerx said:


> IMO they should save that for WM. You just can't have Lesnar lose his next match after breaking the streak..... just NO NO NO.
> 
> And I totally forgot an opponent for Lesnar at SS...... Lesnar vs Cena II?


In somewhat of a "dream" scenario, they give Lesnar enough money to stick around for a couple extra months, take the belt off of Bryan in a SHOCKER before Bryan eventually regains it and slays the beast in an all time classic at Hell in a Cell. Lesnar isn't seen again until next year.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Pretty sure Lesnar not going for the Championship at SummerSlam would be the worst booking decision of the year. Naturally, WWE will have to go through w/it.


I just can't see it. Brock faces Cesaro or somebody and rapes them. Brock wins title at Royal Rumble from Bryan and loses at WM to Reigns. Really hope that last part is wrong but :cuss:



Jack Evans 187 said:


> In somewhat of a "dream" scenario, they give Lesnar enough money to stick around for a couple extra months, take the belt off of Bryan in a SHOCKER before Bryan eventually regains it and slays the beast in an all time classic at Hell in a Cell. Lesnar isn't seen again until next year.


this is what I want to see.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Exactly what I'm sayin. You just had this guy beat the streak. How can you downgrade him to anything other than a match with Bryan? A program with Cesaro would be a step backwards like the streak ending didn't even occur, a rematch with Cena would make sense if he's somehow the champ, but that's really where it ends. Not sure how he could get involved with anyone else like Orton, Shield, or Sheamus.


A program w/Cesaro would be awful. b/c it wouldn't make a lick of sense. Cesaro joins Heyman only to depart w/him a few months later to randomly work vs Brock & LOSE? People complaining about Cesaro atm and then wanting this make no sense. Lesnar beat the streak. He was wanting the Championship prior to all of this. Writing is on the walls. There is nowhere else to go but here. Unless the guy doesn't work a match until WM 31, this is unavoidable. WWE back themselves into a corner. It's all there is left. Lesnar vs whomever is champion. Which I would imagine is Danielson. I mean, why wouldn't it be? Lesnar vs the hottest guy and their current champion. That's money.

---------

Watched Clash of the Champions X today. Fantastic show. Everything on it was at least good or a boatload of fun, minus the jokefest that was Mil Mascaras being a piece of shit vs Cactus Jack. Steiners vs Doom was better than their PPV match at Capital Combat. SKYSCRAPERS vs Road Warriors ruled. Sullivan vs Norman, ha, awesome. Wacky finish, but I called it so that is fine by me. No Midnight Express though. Guess they're only good enough to steal every PPV. 

And why doesn't anyone ever, ever, ever discuss the Horsemen vs Gary Hart International six man steel cage main event? Far as I'm concerned that's one the finest displays of wild, wooly, manly pro wrestling I've ever experienced. The passion from those fans too. Horsemen became the most hated men in the sport over the span of an hour via jumping Sting. So much so that BUZZ SAWYER was getting massive pops from the audience anytime he was giving Flair, Arn, or Ole a beating. And the Muta love. Holy shit that was goosebumps personified. Watch this match. If you don't have the network search for this. Unreal.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well thank fuck someone gets what I'm talkin about here with Lesnar. The Cesaro program would I'm sure produce a good match but what Cody said is money, money, and money. The program could somewhat make sense if Cesaro turns on Heyman, claims he's holding him back or something and only wants to talk about his client BROOOCK LESNAR, then Heyman brings back Brock as a hired gun to ruin this new guy. It _could_ make sense but seems forced. Then you have to look at what Brock would do after that. Would he do the exact same thing as this past year and come back around Janaury, destroy everyone and demand to be considered a #1 contender? It just doesn't add up.

There's plenty of big time matches they can give us at Summerslam. Imagine ANY of these:

Bryan vs. Lesnar
John Cena vs. Cesaro (to keep Cena away from the Title picture and give us a solid uppercard feud)
Cody Rhodes vs. Goldust
Sheamus vs. Swagger for the US Title (eventually this program HAS to happen right???)


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I know what you all want, something that will produce quality never seen before. ROCK VS LESNAR - WM30 :vince

Rock goes over. :rock


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It would be perfect if WWE could give Brock some more money so he can work semi full-time for a short period for a title run from Royal Rumble until Wrestlemania.

He beats Orton (can be turned face, is a big enough name and wont suffer from a loss) at SummerSlam in a random one-off just to continue the momentum from ending the streak as he heads onto next year, then is gone until RR when he challenges Bryan to a title match and wins it there. He retains inside Elimination Chamber against Bryan, Batista, Cena, Sheamus & Orton and finally at WM, the Royal Rumble winner Cesaro takes on him and wins the title.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^^:lmao

@Corey: Last two don't have a shot in hell to make the SummerSlam card.

Cena vs Cesaro is very feasible. That should be the match for Cesaro on the show. Would be the next step to keep the momentum going. If he isn't completely derailed by then.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

C2D you REALLY wanna see Brock vs. Orton don't you?  I'm sorry but none of what you said works for me. haha. There's like a 1.7% chance I can see the WWE giving us Brock Lesnar vs. Cesaro in the main event of Wrestlemania, especially considering how little of a reaction Lesnar has gotten in his last several appearances. Of course the heat may be completely different if he beats both Taker AND Bryan. Woah boy.

Idkkk Cody. They keep planting these little seeds of dissension between the Rhodes Bros. I mean, Cody did "accidentally" eliminate Goldie from the battle royal last week... 

Sheamus needs to have midcard matches with everyone as US Champion. Run through Del Rio, Henry, Swagger, Big Show, etc. etc. until eventually losing to someone like Swagger or Rusev (you know it's coming anyway).

I'm so lost as to what's gonna happen with Evolution after this thing with the Shield unless they stretch it to Summerslam somehow.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Trips vs Reigns is locked for absolute certain. K, maybe not that, but I've been on that plan since the night after WM.

Cody vs Goldust will probably be duking it out on the next upcoming PPVs. Doesn't have legs for SummerSlam is my guess. I would hope it does, or they make it long term, compelling and have a one on one match for the big event. I just have my definitive doubts considering it's already on the verge of exploding right now and we got three more weeks left till Payback. Then following it is MITB & Battleground. SummerSlam isn't close enough to convince me.

Swagger is talented fodder right now. That's why I can't possibly see him getting a championship shot at the second biggest show vs a top level guy like Sheamus. Unless some things drastically change, which they can, it's a total "no way" from my perspective. Swagger is going to put over Rose right now. Can't see that leading to Swagger eventually being a threat to Sheamus down the line. Would love to see it, though. They have great matches.

Not making any more predictions b/c I hate doing that. This company changes so much on the fly. I'm only sure about the main events b/c they seemed to be steadily mapped out right now. Danielson vs ??? (Lesnar), Triple H vs ??? (Reigns), & Cena vs ??? (Cesaro, like I said, is the best bet) One of these may be a big tag match for all I know. 8*D


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> C2D you REALLY wanna see Brock vs. Orton don't you?  I'm sorry but none of what you said works for me. haha. There's like a 1.7% chance I can see the WWE giving us Brock Lesnar vs. Cesaro in the main event of Wrestlemania, especially considering how little of a reaction Lesnar has gotten in his last several appearances. Of course the heat may be completely different if he beats both Taker AND Bryan. Woah boy.


I would cut some heads to get that. 

I just don't see Brock going for the title at SummerSlam working if he wins. Because he only works for the big PPVs and after SS, the next PPV that is any relevant is the Rumble and I can't see him holding it for that long, if at all.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Dolph Ziggler vs. Shawn Michaels @ Wrestlemania 31 :banderas a man can dream


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ugh. Adam Rose. I've never watched a single one of his matches but I already hate the guy. The gimmick is fucking stupid and he's just gonna turn into Fandango/Zack Ryder #2. Calling it now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hey, Corey, SHUT UP.

He can't be one of those guys by proxy of being infinitely more talented than the two of 'em. Of course pecking order is the point here, but I couldn't let such a nice tag slip by. Kruger is rad. And the fact we're guaranteed to get one match vs Swagger. Oh shoot. That could kill.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:lol

Tell me, has he produced ANYTHING worth watching under the Adam Rose gimmick so far? Cause you know, gimmicks and face/heel dynamics can totally ruin someone if they're not apt to doing it the way the company wants. Kruger was heel right?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Kruger was a heel. Although he worked as a peachy underdog face vs Cesaro on one night for NXT and it was something worth seeing again. Rose has looked good w/his new character. But so far he's had nothing more than showcase matches, so there isn't too much to officially judge how he can work a real quality produced match. The signs are good. He's still pretty rugged in the ring. Only he adds a flashy shenanigan or two into the matches to go along w/the flamboyant appeal.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well, his time will come right around Payback I'm sure. We'll see if he can hang with Swagger (who is turning into Chris Jericho as of late, putting EVERYONE over).

I've been trying to watch some of the Clash of the Champions on the network but sometimes it can just be so difficult for me to sit through an old NWA/WCW show in its entirety because I'm so unfamiliar with some of the talents or storylines that were going on. I watched that Midnights/Fantastics match from Clash I everyone has been raving about and it was really good and everything but I thought the finish just fucked everything over. I hate it when the hot tag is FINALLY made and the match ends just minutes after that. The only time I've ever seen work for me was in the Batista & Rey vs. MNM matches because Batista was a monster World Champ. I just think the finish sucked. Match was pure chaos and well done though but I'd probably give it like ***. I gave up after that. Rotunda/Garvin was a huge DUD and the aftermath didn't raise any reaction for me. It seems like for WCW it has to be individual matches if it's before 1995 for me to fully get into it. I can watch WWF from like '89 onwards though and I love it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I can deal without seeing Adam Rose ever again. No way he'll last long - most comedy gimmicks don't. Santino seems to have a job for life, though. I liked Kruger tbh, but I don't care for comedy gimmicks on the whole. 

Can't express how stoked I am for Bo Dallas to appear on WWE television, and I used to really dislike the guy. They're doing with him though what they should have done with Cena a long time ago. They clearly wanted Dallas to be a face but he's just so easy to hate. 

On the topic of Brock, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't go after the title. He's probably coming back for the build to Summerslam, doing Summerslam, and leaving until early 2015. That's the way his schedule has been, and why should we expect it to change. I just want Brock/Sheamus or Brock/Bryan at this point. I've said it before, and I say it again - Brock/Rock at Mania actually interests. It would have a big fight feel, and I'd love to see Rock sell for Brock. I know very few people agree with me on that, and that's okay. I'd melt if Brock worked a Chamber match. I mean, MELT.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Ugh. Adam Rose. I've never watched a single one of his matches but I already hate the guy. The gimmick is fucking stupid and he's just gonna turn into Fandango/Zack Ryder #2. Calling it now.


Don't be a lemon be a Rose Bud


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's just a niche among Southern Style formats. I don't like it to happen often when a hot tag is made and the match is over after two crossbodies 30 seconds later, but it's usually never a "bad" thing. I just get left wanting some more in certain matches. Not quite sure why you can't watch the product before 1995. Especially when it comes to standout years like 1992 & 1994. Feuds are usually mentioned on every broadcast - JR helps in that regard - and most of the time you can just do a quick search to get any background to enjoy the matches. Plus, it's the late 80's & early 90's Southern glory. It's TONS of fun. Even w/some of the bad gimmicks. You sit there laughing at what the inept minds that ran WCW were thinking. Dr. Death actually being a DOCTOR, yet a babyface. So he's got Death in his name, gimmick doctor in some scenarios that he's trying to save people, but will kill heels. Or something like that. You can't make up fun like that again. Long live the glory days of wrestling farce's past.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao You guys question the sanity of those who expect Cesaro or Orton to be Lesnar's opponent at Summerslam, yet your idea of Brock vs. Bryan for the title is even sillier. Why would you book yourself into a corner? If Brock loses, then that's just stupid. If Brock obtains the title, then having a champion that doesn't appear for six months until his next title defense is even stupider. If you choose a non-finish, then that's even stupider than that. And then you have the audacity to say that NOT doing this ridiculous idea would be one of the worst booking decisions the WWE could make. Thank goodness :vince3 doesn't listen to us fans.

Cena vs. Cesaro does sound very appealing though for Summerslam.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Clearly if Brock wins the title he will have to be their all the time, there not gonna do a Hollywood Hogan and let him keep the title while he's shooting a movie or TV show for 2 to 4 months.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So who's going to tell Brock to come to work every day? I would hate to be the feeble soul that has to relay that command onto :brock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao You guys question the sanity of those who expect Cesaro or Orton to be Lesnar's opponent at Summerslam, yet your idea of Brock vs. Bryan for the title is even sillier. Why would you book yourself into a corner? If Brock loses, then that's just stupid. If Brock obtains the title, then having a champion that doesn't appear for six months until his next title defense is even stupider. If you choose a non-finish, then that's even stupider than that. And then you have the audacity to say that NOT doing this ridiculous idea would be one of the worst booking decisions the WWE could make. Thank goodness :vince3 doesn't listen to us fans.
> 
> Cena vs. Cesaro does sound very appealing though for Summerslam.


Holy crap this is daft.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Cesaro should just win MITB and announce that he's cashing in on Bryan at Summerslam and let them have 30 minutes.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> That's just a niche among Southern Style formats. I don't like it to happen often when a hot tag is made and the match is over after two crossbodies 30 seconds later, but it's usually never a "bad" thing. I just get left wanting some more in certain matches. Not quite sure why you can't watch the product before 1995. Especially when it comes to standout years like 1992 & 1994. Feuds are usually mentioned on every broadcast - JR helps in that regard - and most of the time you can just do a quick search to get any background to enjoy the matches. Plus, it's the late 80's & early 90's Southern glory. It's TONS of fun. Even w/some of the bad gimmicks. You sit there laughing at what the inept minds that ran WCW were thinking. Dr. Death actually being a DOCTOR, yet a babyface. So he's got Death in his name, gimmick doctor in some scenarios that he's trying to save people, but will kill heels. Or something like that. You can't make up fun like that again. Long live the glory days of wrestling farce's past.


It's tough for me to pinpoint why it's so difficult. I once watched all of Wrestlewar '92 and afterwards I can say yeah, that had some good matches on it but I can't feel as satisfied as other people are when it comes to that main event or other stuff on the card. Comparing that to something like GAB '96 (which I've also seen in full), that show actually left a bigger mark on me. It's weird. I think some of it has to go with my lack of viewing the product in my early years. I was brought up on WWF so that's what comes natural to me. I can certainly watch plenty of good matches prior to 1995 but half the time idk WHY they're so good and the environment seems so foreign to me. I've tried watching a couple tags or random matches from the Steamboat dvd and I just never end up finishing them if they're not singles against certain guys. It's a strange dilemma. I think the fact that having ALL these WWF/E tapes and dvds over the year have exposed me to that company much more than it did for WCW., since the WCW stuff has mostly came recently.



funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao You guys question the sanity of those who expect Cesaro or Orton to be Lesnar's opponent at Summerslam, yet your idea of Brock vs. Bryan for the title is even sillier. Why would you book yourself into a corner? If Brock loses, then that's just stupid. If Brock obtains the title, then having a champion that doesn't appear for six months until his next title defense is even stupider. If you choose a non-finish, then that's even stupider than that. And then you have the audacity to say that NOT doing this ridiculous idea would be one of the worst booking decisions the WWE could make. Thank goodness :vince3 doesn't listen to us fans.
> 
> Cena vs. Cesaro does sound very appealing though for Summerslam.


Either way there's probably gonna be some sort of logic lacking in whatever Brock does next. Let's just agree on that.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Helmsley said:


> Cesaro should just win MITB and announce that he's cashing in on Bryan at Summerslam and let them have 30 minutes.


In a perfect world 

Cesaro has to win MITB though, the only person that would be acceptable other then Cesaro would be Barrett (Y)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

They just put the IC strap on Barrett. I'm not getting greedy with him at this point. Sure that belt means shit, but still. He won consecutive matches in a row, and gets promo time. I'm happy for now.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao You guys question the sanity of those who expect Cesaro or Orton to be Lesnar's opponent at Summerslam, yet your idea of Brock vs. Bryan for the title is even sillier. Why would you book yourself into a corner? If Brock loses, then that's just stupid. If Brock obtains the title, then having a champion that doesn't appear for six months until his next title defense is even stupider. If you choose a non-finish, then that's even stupider than that. And then you have the audacity to say that NOT doing this ridiculous idea would be one of the worst booking decisions the WWE could make. Thank goodness :vince3 doesn't listen to us fans.
> 
> Cena vs. Cesaro does sound very appealing though for Summerslam.


But....i want Bryan/Lesnar at SummerSlam :sad:
or WrestleMania


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> It's tough for me to pinpoint why it's so difficult. I once watched all of Wrestlewar '92 and afterwards I can say yeah, that had some good matches on it but I can't feel as satisfied as other people are when it comes to that main event or other stuff on the card. Comparing that to something like GAB '96 (which I've also seen in full), that show actually left a bigger mark on me. It's weird. I think some of it has to go with my lack of viewing the product in my early years. I was brought up on WWF so that's what comes natural to me. I can certainly watch plenty of good matches prior to 1995 but half the time idk WHY they're so good and the environment seems so foreign to me. I've tried watching a couple tags or random matches from the Steamboat dvd and I just never end up finishing them if they're not singles against certain guys. It's a strange dilemma. I think the fact that having ALL these WWF/E tapes and dvds over the year have exposed me to that company much more than it did for WCW., since the WCW stuff has mostly came recently.


Do you have any other issues watching other promotions from the same timeframe or is it only WCW? b/c this is quite unusual to say the least. I can understand being in the proper mood for stuff, but flat out having a disconnect b/c it is a different promotion you didn't grow up watching much from is...well, not quite sure I've ever heard anything like that. I've always been the kind of person to just watch wrestling. From anywhere or everywhere. Can't say I share a similar problem. I'd hate it if I did. :hayley2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Money in the Bank winner HAS to be Cesaro. If not then my 2nd choice is a heel Cody Rhodes. Wouldn't mind seeing Ziggler grab it again to once again prove he belongs in the main event scene and MAYBE get an actual title reign this time.  I'm dreaming though.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I don't know if Dolph will ever recover. I've kind of moved on from him. If they decide they want to run with him again, then great, but there seems to be a number of guys that are ahead of him for the time being. 

I'd totally dig it if Sheamus ran with Hunter for a while as a heel. The seeds are already there.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Do you have any other issues watching other promotions from the same timeframe or is it only WCW? b/c this is quite unusual to say the least. I can understand being in the proper mood for stuff, but flat out having a disconnect b/c it is a different promotion you didn't grow up watching much from is...well, not quite sure I've ever heard anything like that. I've always been the kind of person to just watch wrestling. From anywhere or everywhere. Can't say I share a similar problem. I'd hate it if I did. :hayley2


It's really just WCW since there weren't any other major promotions running around the same time (in the states of course).  Prior to 1995 that whole company is just completely foreign to me. I've seen matches here and there throughout the years but almost no complete shows/PPVs. I've seen tons of good stuff with Benoit, Austin, Steamboat and guys like that I'm familiar with but I just can't sit through 3 hours of it. It's so weird man. haha. Maybe it's the presentation, maybe it's the wrestlers, idk. I watched an entire WWF MSG show from 1991 and while it wasn't that good, I at least knew what was going on and I was interested. If I tried to sit through a WCW show from '91 I'd probably be bored or lose interest in minutes. So strange.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus doesn't need to be w/anyone. Just let him kick ass by himself like how he always does. WWE doesn't need to be going into some other companies mode where people are all aligned.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nah Ziggler is done (heart just ripped typing that). Will probably never do anything with him. Since there is only 1 MITB, the winner wont be some out of the blue type of guy

Realistic hopes for Ziggles is maybe a US title program w/ a HEEL Sheamus or Barrett I guess, but hopefully the former


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm not saying he needs to, I'm just saying I'd enjoy it. Heel Sheamus on his own would be just fine also. If Sheamus doesn't do something with the US title, it'll be disappointing and even more random, in my opinion.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just realized NONE of us brought up a Shield member or Bray Wyatt as a viable MITB winner. Oh jeez... the options. :|


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> It's really just WCW since there weren't any other major promotions running around the same time (in the states of course).  Prior to 1995 that whole company is just completely foreign to me. I've seen matches here and there throughout the years but almost no complete shows/PPVs. I've seen tons of good stuff with Benoit, Austin, Steamboat and guys like that I'm familiar with but I just can't sit through 3 hours of it. It's so weird man. haha. Maybe it's the presentation, maybe it's the wrestlers, idk. I watched an entire WWF MSG show from 1991 and while it wasn't that good, I at least knew what was going on and I was interested. If I tried to sit through a WCW show from '91 I'd probably be bored or lose interest in minutes. So strange.


Huh. Well you've stumped me here. Also want to ask HOW DO YOU DISCOVER NEW PEOPLE? Ha. But watch that six man steel cage match I plugged a page back. You know Muta, Flair, & Arn guaranteed. Ole, Sawyer, & Nagasaki (Dragonslayer) you may too, but if not, it isn't a big deal. Watch and revel in the wild glory.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

They seem to still be riding the Shield as a group for a while, and Reigns is headed for a program with Hunter at Summerslam, though that's not to say he couldn't win the MITB briefcase. They'll go the more conventional route with him as it concerns a championship run. The likelyhood of us getting Ambrose or Rollins in the ladder match doesn't seem so high at this point, which is sad. But who knows what could happen after Payback.

Bray winning a briefcase seems weird to me.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

As I wrote the other day, I am going to rewatch, take observational notes of so I don't forget and just sift through this stacked year since I have done zero rewatches of any of this initially awesome stuff Shield/Wyatts I aside. Going to post my reviews/notes as I go Got enough time today to analytically rewatch Cena/Cesaro from RAW, so here are my notes on that:

PROS: Loved that even though Cesaro lost the war, he won the "metagame", or the minigames within the match. Cesaro countered Cena's leapfrog with a tiltawhirl backbreaker yet got a successful leap frog in himself;Cesaro won the control with the headlock; Cesaro got the better of the knockdown irish whip attempt. These little victories in hallmark spots conveyed to the audience Cesaro is a force to be reckon when wrestling the big dogs. That is the aim of the match and these little victories went a ways in establishing this through good psychology. 

*Nice counters:* protoplex into schoolboy into swing into stf into gutwrench, swing into ddt, fame asser countered to uppercut, sending Cena out on floor, ending sequence. 

* One of Cena's finest individual efforts period*. While this isn't saying a whole lot, this is IMO Cena's strongest selling from bell to bell since when he used to sell his ass off for Umaga. Cena's energy slowly zapping away as shown in the movement speed of cena decreasing little by little and kickout power decreasing throughout. Slow transition into five knuckle off sidestepped protoplex to sell overall fatigue was a nice touch. Combined with Cena's star power, Cesaro even in loss ended up looking like a million bucks and a guy who has the ability to match the top tier; which was the aim. 

*Presentation*: crowd slowly investing culminating with this is awesome chant breaking five minutes before finish and then throughout those five minutes a great burst. Cole actually called this contest with decent investment. (amazing how voice inflection and a little effort really makes Cole sound above average as opposed to usual standard). 
*Awesome high spot spacing from Cesaro really popped the crowd for what aimed to. 
*
CONS: hardly anything to complain about because this match was damn fantastic but the afformentioned counters didn't come off the cleanest and the first major counter spot felt a bit forced.

*Rating:* There were little slop moments and some forced spots and perhaps because this was a raw, this didn't have that magical feel that stays with you through time, but this match was so damn good that I think ****1/2 maybe even ****3/4 stars is warranted. Serious about that.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Thinking back to Sheamus as a heel... "This warrior bows to no King", still mark over that.
Haven't enjoyed much from his face run so maybe a heel turn will change that.

@ Hemsley

looking at your sig of Michaels kicking HHH, why can't more babyfaces be like that ? He'd do some dirty sh*t but no one held it over his head cause we knew he wasn't a boy scout.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That moment is so contrived. You can just envision the pow wow Triple, HBK, & Vince had backstage w/big smiles on their faces knowing if they start the match like that they'll think they are the coolest & clever guys around.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Cena/Michaels/Trips or Cena/Edge/Trips?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'd have a tough time choosing between Cena/Edge/H and Cena/Michaels/H. Both are GREAT. Two of the better three ways the company has put on.



funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao You guys question the sanity of those who expect Cesaro or Orton to be Lesnar's opponent at Summerslam, yet your idea of Brock vs. Bryan for the title is even sillier. Why would you book yourself into a corner? If Brock loses, then that's just stupid. If Brock obtains the title, then having a champion that doesn't appear for six months until his next title defense is even stupider. If you choose a non-finish, then that's even stupider than that. And then you have the audacity to say that NOT doing this ridiculous idea would be one of the worst booking decisions the WWE could make. Thank goodness :vince3 doesn't listen to us fans.





Hayley Seydoux said:


> Holy crap this is daft.


How is it daft? I agree with funnyfaces completely.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Can't forget Cena's GOAT reaction :cena4


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Never seen HHH/Cena/Edge actually i haven't seen many of Cena's title matches from his 1st two WWE title reigns.
During his reigns i'd turn on RAW simply for background noise.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> That moment is so contrived. You can just envision the pow wow Triple, HBK, & Vince had backstage w/big smiles on their faces knowing if they start the match like that they'll think they are the coolest & clever guys around.


Well it shocked the hell out of me, as i thought they'd teased the tension in the opening minutes.



Helmsley said:


> Can't forget Cena's GOAT reaction :cena4


Definitely one of his best reactions but the MITB win still gets me :lmao


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Trips/Cena/Edge is damn fine. Can't compare the two atm, but I certainly enjoy them both.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> How is it daft? I agree with funnyfaces completely.


b/c it proves how idiotic the WWE booking department is & his claims screaming that fans picking Brock vs Danielson (or rather whomever is champion) as a way of backing them into a corner, when WWE are the ones who did it in the first place was unbearable. Brock working vs anyone else would be a massive demotion from beating the streak. It shouldn't even have to be explained. Remember that Brock still wants a championship shot? So that should just be forgotten? Apparently so b/c he can't go for the championship unless it is WM & HAS to be gone for six months if he was given the strap. :hayden3

Brock defeats Taker to end the streak and get massive heat. Ok now work vs Cesaro and derail his momentum by overshadowing him. That's top notch stuff, right there. Think about all the factors at play. It's championship or bust. Not my fault WWE made him earn the most shocking & monumental win at WM only for that to meet at a crossroads where he's either going to lose or win the championship at the next large event.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Why would you book yourself into a corner? If Brock loses, then that's just stupid. If Brock obtains the title, then having a champion that doesn't appear for six months until his next title defense is even stupider. If you choose a non-finish, then that's even stupider than that.


Welcome to the WWE.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> b/c it proves how idiotic the WWE booking department is & his claims screaming that fans picking Brock vs Danielson (or rather whomever is champion) as a way of backing them into a corner, when WWE are the ones who did it in the first place was unbearable. Brock working vs anyone else would be a massive demotion from beating the streak. It shouldn't even have to be explained. Remember that Brock still wants a championship shot? So that should just be forgotten? Apparently so b/c he can't go for the championship unless it is WM & HAS to be gone for six months if he was given the strap. :hayden3
> 
> Brock defeats Taker to end the streak and get massive heat. Ok now work vs Cesaro and derail his momentum by overshadowing him. That's top notch stuff, right there. Think about all the factors at play. It's championship or bust. Not my fault WWE made him earn the most shocking & monumental win at WM only for that to meet at a crossroads where he's either going to lose or win the championship at the next large event.


But the fact is they have booked themselves into a corner. Funnyfaces and myself aren't saying a title match with Bryan isn't the sensible progression for Brock after beating the streak, or that it isn't the biggest and best match that they can do. His point, and mine as well, is that there is NO sensible outcome for a Lesnar/Danielson match if it happens at SummerSlam. Does that mean I don't want to see it? Not at all. What it means is that they fucked themselves by having Brock beat Taker. And they did. I get where funnyfaces is coming from because although Bryan/Brock is a match I want to see (more than any other match they could do actually), I don't really want to see the guy who just beat Taker's streak lose his next match, nor do I want a part-time world champion.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Remember when i was defending Lesnar's limited appearances, "I don't care as long as his matches are awesome" i said. :lmao seems like such a long time ago.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cesaro/Lesnar isn't the optimal choice either, but let's not act like losing to Brock will kill Cesaro's momentum. Brock is one of those guys who automatically puts you over just by acknowledging you enough to work a program with you. Cesaro literally created momentum out of a comedy move. Dude is so talented that even a loss to Lesnar will help him more than it will hurt him. The betrayal is also Heyman's signature feud, and it's his signature feud because it works. People want to cheer for Cesaro. A betrayal and program of that magnitude will generate the sympathy needed for Cesaro to gain momentum in his long awaited face run. He's too good to fail, and unlike Jamie Noble, the fans know he's that good.

Now talk about Jamie Noble. And how he got a good match with Nidia while blindfolded. Or how good The Pitbulls were.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

This is the most redundant topic ever. They're fucked. Might as well go through w/it rather than demoting Brock all b/c some fans out there don't want to see Brock lose or become champion. I mean, what in the hell is this scenario for some of you :lmao


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

I think Royal Rumble and (especially) Wrestlemania are the best events to have Brock go one on one with Bryan. I don't see how a match with Cesaro equates to being demoted, especially considering that Cesaro's booking has made him look strong since Wrestlemania. It would be one of the headliners at Summerslam, and if the match is competitive, followed by Heyman betraying Cesaro, then a loss certainly wouldn't kill Cesaro's momentum either. 

SHRUG


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't understand why the streak ended in the first place. It wasn't to build up an up-and-comer, or even a long-time wrestler who needed establishment. The excuse that it was used to give Lesnar momentum back is reasonable but at the same time I can't help but think it was more for some bullshit shock value. How about you take a Cesaro and try to build him up instead of Brock who isn't even working five fucking matches a year? And what is Brock's momentum going to be used for? He isn't the guy you're positioning to be Hogan/Austin/Cena-type guy. Is he going to be used to put over the next Hogan/Austin/Cena-type guy? It's been said a few posts ago. Either Lesnar wins and we have a champion that shows up less than the Rock did, or Lesnar loses and they killed the streak for a single match. Wonderful. And if Lesnar wins (in his next match in 2017), then the momentum he got from ending the streak is kept and saved for the atch after or until he finally loses a match. He has to wrestle again and it seems stupid for him to both win and lose. I don't believe for a second it was even 5% the right decision to have him end the streak. 

-----

Now, Jamie Noble.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Now talk about Jamie Noble. And how he got a good match with Nidia while blindfolded. Or how good The Pitbulls were.


Have you seen Rey/Noble 11/2/07? It's great. Also MNM/SPANKY&London from Judgment Day was brought up earlier and I agree it's damn good, but Pitbulls/SPANKY&London from GAB might be better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Part of me is more on the side of preferring the GAB match vs Pitbulls over MNM @ Judgment Day. Both are great outings. Then there are the Regal & Taylor matches at the end of the year. Amazing.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I mentioned London & Kendrick vs MNM, great match. Face in peril segments were especially fantastic.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> Right on. I'd add the Mania triple threat to Bryan's list but I know you didn't like that. Also Bryan had a match with Christian (on Raw I believe) with good arm work and selling that I enjoyed. Don't think I saw the Real Americans/Rhodes Bros main event tag. The one on Raw was certainly good for sure. Didn't quite make the cut off for my 2014 list though. Did Bryan and Cesaro really have two matches this year? I remember one, completely blanking on the second.



1) Was it one where he was doing this "one more match" gimmick only to work a more-and-more subtle heel role against Bryan in it? If so, I remember it oh so vaguely.

2) Best watch the Rhodes/Americans ME tag. It blows their others out of the water. Scraping the bottom bit of my top-10, so far, but that's no slight. One of those matches that makes you love being a fan of the sport.

3) I'm almost positive they had two outings. One was really bare-bones, and the second had that magnificent tiltawhirl from Bryan towards the end.




Hayley Seydoux said:


> Zayn makes my top ten. I dunno if that would be worldwide, but as far as WWE goes, he must get a plug atm. Must.



There's always one guy you know you've left off, and want to add, but haven't seen anything of his work. Yeah, Zayn's the guy for me. Hopefully, towards the end of the year, I'll have some matches of his under my watch list because the guy's just too fun.



Saint Dick said:


> I was just thinking about main roster guys when I made my list, otherwise Zayn would be there for sure. Sheamus is a better worker than Orton no question but for me Randy's done more this year.



Orton had his match against Cena, which should play against both men scoring anywhere near the top. Their respective top performances aren't good enough to sway the average (and came against Bryan/Cesaro, who aren't that hard to work a good match with). Sheamus has had some damn good performances and, if anything, should be knocking on the door of anyone's list. I doubt they'll pick up off of the Cesaro/Sheamus spots from the February tag match but, if that singles happens, both are going to skyrocket.

The Shield Vs John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Sheamus (Raw 1/27)
W/ Christian Vs Real Americans (Raw 2/10)
Elimination Chamber
Vs Barrett (Raw 4/21)
Vs Titus (ME 4/22)




funnyfaces1 said:


> So who's going to tell Brock to come to work every day? I would hate to be the feeble soul that has to relay that command onto :brock


Except Brock wants to work, it's just WWE choose not (/cannot afford) to pay for regular appearances. While his going price is high, he's still into being the company workhorse. That's why he only returns when a "money" feud comes around.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

People were talking about when and where is Bryan/Lesnar taking place. Well, you can do it a SummerSlam, but then you'd have to either deal w/Bryan having defeated THE GUY WHO ENDED THE FUCKING STREAK; or a champion that doesn't even show up for the rest of the year. In another words, SummerSlam would be a stupid idea. If anything Bryan/Wyatt II over the title should be the SummerSlam Main Event imho, and Lesnar shouldn't show up.

Why you may ask? To book Bryan/Lesnar for SURVIVOR SERIES. Think about it: if the WWE is really that desperate in booking that match before WM 31, there's no working way other than SS. Considering Lesnar just HAS to walk out as champion, SS takes place in late November, which means he's only 1 and a half month away from the next year. That way, Lesnar's PPV appearances are done very close within each other, and two months later in January, he's back for the start of WM season. Sure, he misses TLC, but it's not like that hasn't happened before (Punk missed TLC 2012, may you remember). Plus, it would finally give SS that importance it was lacking since 20fucking12.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

enough of whatever. Let's talk about Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs Edge & Rey Mysterio from No Mercy 2002. Have watched this at least 5 times. 5 star match!

Ya'll are hyperbolic bandwagoners if you don't like this match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

There are many that do dislike it here. _Paramore fan, ATTACK 8*D_

I do like it, but imo it's not even close to 5 stars. Like a solid ***1/2 (same rating as Bookdust/Vitamin C from the same night). I just thought that everything before Rey's hot tag (outside of the starting Rey/Angle stuff) was dull as crap, and Angle's finisher overkill at the end was stupid. Still, everything inbetween was very cool and sort-of innovative for what it was.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Rah said:


> 1) Was it one where he was doing this "one more match" gimmick only to work a more-and-more subtle heel role against Bryan in it? If so, I remember it oh so vaguely.
> 
> 2) Best watch the Rhodes/Americans ME tag. It blows their others out of the water. Scraping the bottom bit of my top-10, so far, but that's no slight. One of those matches that makes you love being a fan of the sport.
> 
> 3) I'm almost positive they had two outings. One was really bare-bones, and the second had that magnificent tiltawhirl from Bryan towards the end.


1. It was around Elimination Chamber. I remember that because Bryan had his shoulder bandaged and it was around the same time Christian had his program with Sheamus. He was definitely working as a heel.

2. I'll look for it when I get a chance.

3. Saw the one with the sick tilt-a-whirl. 



> Orton had his match against Cena, which should play against both men scoring anywhere near the top. Their respective top performances aren't good enough to sway the average (and came against Bryan/Cesaro, who aren't that hard to work a good match with). Sheamus has had some damn good performances and, if anything, should be knocking on the door of anyone's list. I doubt they'll pick up off of the Cesaro/Sheamus spots from the February tag match but, if that singles happens, both are going to skyrocket.
> 
> The Shield Vs John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Sheamus (Raw 1/27)
> W/ Christian Vs Real Americans (Raw 2/10)
> ...


Sheamus had a really good match with Ryback too. After putting more thought into it I'd definitely have him above Cena. Gonna stick with my backing of Orton for now. You're right, the Cena match at the Rumble should count against him (tbh I forgot about that -- don't think I even watched the whole thing since everyone said it was garbage) but I still think his best stuff this year is better than anything Sheamus has done. That's bound to change now that Sheamus is the US champ.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

ATF said:


> There are many that do dislike it here. _Paramore fan, ATTACK 8*D_
> 
> I do like it, but imo it's not even close to 5 stars. Like a solid ***1/2 (same rating as Bookdust/Vitamin C from the same night). I just thought that everything before Rey's hot tag (outside of the starting Rey/Angle stuff) was dull as crap, and Angle's finisher overkill at the end was stupid. Still, everything inbetween was very cool and sort-of innovative for what it was.


Never heard of a Vitamin C.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> enough of whatever. Let's talk about Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs Edge & Rey Mysterio from No Mercy 2002. Have watched this at least 5 times. 5 star match!
> 
> Ya'll are hyperbolic bandwagoners if you don't like this match.


Painfully mediocre. Love life knowing I never will watch it again. Their two out of three falls rematch is piss poor too.

:hb



Rah said:


> 3) I'm almost positive they had two outings. One was really bare-bones, and the second had that magnificent tiltawhirl from Bryan towards the end.


2/21 >>> 2/7

and the 2/21 is the match most didn't even know or remember happened. It's brilliant.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Their two out of three falls rematch is piss poor too.


I'll have to check this out!  TY!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No prob.

btw, Vitamin C is the occasion nickname some have given the tag team for Chris Jericho & Christian.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jim Cornette promo (WWF RAW 10.06.1997)

x1tlbyu

Shoot-style promo from the great one.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Bryan/Lesnar at Summerslam is stupid imo. Too soon for either guy. I'm actually with C2D. Turn Orton face after Evolution breaks off and feed him to Lesnar for a big Summerslam co-main event. It won't hurt him and Lesnar gets to go over a big name to keep the ball rolling. Summerslam could be awesome:

Brock/Orton
Trips/Reigns (if it happens)
Bryan/Batista for the title

And you still have Cena, Wyatt, Rollins/Ambrose etc to fill out the rest of the card. Who knows what it will end up looking like at this stage though. Too early to tell. We'll probably be able to make more informed guesses around MITB when we see who's going to be involved in what on that card.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

bigbuxxx said:


> enough of whatever. Let's talk about Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs Edge & Rey Mysterio from No Mercy 2002. Have watched this at least 5 times. 5 star match!
> 
> Ya'll are hyperbolic bandwagoners if you don't like this match.


Yeah, it's super great. Fun workrate match. Still think Taker/Brock was MOTN there, but only by a small margin. Both are sitting at ****3/4 for me. Probably seen the tag match about seven times, and it's one of the few wrestling matches that my brother and I could get his wife to sit through, which she actually found entertaining. :lol


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Anyone have any desire to see Wyatt/Brock or something to that extent ala Harper/Lesnar-Rowan/Lesnar?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Batista getting a main event at SummerSlam :hayden3


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Wow, did I just say Brock/Wyatt and then use Lesnar rather. Fuck, I'm a weirdo.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Their two out of three falls rematch is piss poor too.


Didn't like this that much. Thanks for the rec. anyhow.

Any of the Wyatts vs Brock or Lesnar would not be fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, it ended up making us agree on one of the topics after all.

Imagine you've seen the three way elimination match from Survivor Series '02 and/or Benoit/Angle vs Los Guerreros from Rebellion '02? Former I like and latter I don't have an opinion on, but they're more recs if you weren't aware and wanting more of that early WWE tag championship flavor.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't think I've ever seen ''piss poor'' taken as a recommendation before.


I liked the Survivor Series 02 four-way tagfuck-o-rama as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I know right? I shat on it and still made someone interested in seeing the match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> People were talking about when and where is Bryan/Lesnar taking place. Well, you can do it a SummerSlam, but then you'd have to either deal w/Bryan having defeated THE GUY WHO ENDED THE FUCKING STREAK; or a champion that doesn't even show up for the rest of the year. In another words, SummerSlam would be a stupid idea. If anything Bryan/Wyatt II over the title should be the SummerSlam Main Event imho, and Lesnar shouldn't show up.
> 
> Why you may ask? To book Bryan/Lesnar for SURVIVOR SERIES. Think about it: if the WWE is really that desperate in booking that match before WM 31, there's no working way other than SS. Considering Lesnar just HAS to walk out as champion, SS takes place in late November, which means he's only 1 and a half month away from the next year. That way, Lesnar's PPV appearances are done very close within each other, and two months later in January, he's back for the start of WM season. Sure, he misses TLC, but it's not like that hasn't happened before (Punk missed TLC 2012, may you remember). Plus, it would finally give SS that importance it was lacking since 20fucking12.


This isn't a half bad idea... If they wanted to give Brock the title then the main event at TLC could just be a#1 contender's TLC match or somethin with Bryan winning and getting a rematch at the Rumble. I'll take it! I would also argue that Survivor Series hasn't meant much of anything since 2007, with 2011 being the only exception.



Starbuck said:


> Bryan/Lesnar at Summerslam is stupid imo. Too soon for either guy. I'm actually with C2D. Turn Orton face after Evolution breaks off and feed him to Lesnar for a big Summerslam co-main event. It won't hurt him and Lesnar gets to go over a big name to keep the ball rolling. Summerslam could be awesome:
> 
> *Brock/Orton
> Trips/Reigns (if it happens)
> ...


But... that card doesn't look good at all.  Batista in a singles main event!?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I think because BROCK is so limited in dates I wouldn't have him win the WWE WHC until Royal Rumble 2015. He without question should not lose any match until WrestleMania 31 at the earliest too. So I would have BROCK/Bryan for the WWE WHC at Royal Rumble. I also like the idea of BROCK/Orton at SummerSlam but I also am not against another match with Cena. Then there is the possibility Cesaro breaks from Heyman because so much attention is put on the conqueror of The Streak instead of him and that is not why he hired him. You get BROCK/Cesaro there. I wonder if they still want to do BROCK vs. ROCK at WrestleMania?


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

ATF said:


> Why you may ask? To book Bryan/Lesnar for SURVIVOR SERIES. Think about it: if the WWE is really that desperate in booking that match before WM 31, there's no working way other than SS. Considering Lesnar just HAS to walk out as champion, SS takes place in late November, which means he's only 1 and a half month away from the next year. That way, Lesnar's PPV appearances are done very close within each other, and two months later in January, he's back for the start of WM season. Sure, he misses TLC, but it's not like that hasn't happened before (Punk missed TLC 2012, may you remember). Plus, it would finally give SS that importance it was lacking since 20fucking12.


 This would be perfect, though I disagree that SS hasn't had any real importance since probably 2008. The PPV itself was weak, but they used it to build up the return of Cena, it had a good undercard, and still had at least TWO elimination matches. 2009 had no build whatsoever (and the PPV was almost cancelled months later if anyone remembers), 2010 was weak, and 2011 was significant solely for Rock's in-ring return. Bryan/Lesnar at SS would epic indeed.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> 1. It was around Elimination Chamber. I remember that because Bryan had his shoulder bandaged and it was around the same time Christian had his program with Sheamus. He was definitely working as a heel.
> 
> 2. I'll look for it when I get a chance.
> 
> 3. Saw the one with the sick tilt-a-whirl.


I'm a huge fan of the Bryan/Christian Raw match this year, very good arm work


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Anyone seen the Greatest Villains countdown on the network? Hilarious as fuck :lmao. My favourite part is when they have Roddy Piper at number 6 and Randy Orton at number 2 :lmao. Best joke EVER :lmao.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Bryan/Christian also had a great match on Smackdown last year but I don't remember the date. Sometime before Summerslam I think.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Anyone seen the Greatest Villains countdown on the network? Hilarious as fuck :lmao. My favourite part is when they have Roddy Piper at number 6 and Randy Orton at number 2 :lmao. Best joke EVER :lmao.


VIPER. APEX PREDATOR.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> Bryan/Christian also had a great match on Smackdown last year but I don't remember the date. Sometime before Summerslam I think.


Think that was 12th July.

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----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Finally got some free time to watch Raw. That US title battle royal was crappy but the way Ambrose bumps for and sells big boots (in this case it was the Brogue kick but he's done the same thing for Harper's big boots) is just the best thing. 

So glad the crowd shat on Santino eliminating Dolph.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Orton/Cena Ratings:

Summerslam 2007 (***1/2)
Unforgiven 2007 (*)
NWO 2008 (***3/4)
Breaking Point (****1/4)
Bragging Rights (***1/4)
Summerslam 2009 (-*)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Anyone seen the Greatest Villains countdown on the network? Hilarious as fuck :lmao. My favourite part is when they have Roddy Piper at number 6 and Randy Orton at number 2 :lmao. Best joke EVER :lmao.



It's way more outrageous that they have Rick Rude at #10 and Eddie not even on the list. Rude in his prime was one of the best ever, just a complete slime ball who nearly every man wanted to kill.

For 10 Best Heels I'd say (in their prime, US only):

1. Ric Flair (1986)
2. Terry Funk (1989)
3. Eddie Guerrero (1997, 2005)
4. Vader (1993)
5. Roddy Piper (1985)
6. Rick Rude (1992)
7. Finlay (2006)
8. Regal (1996)
9. Jerry Lawler (always liked him more as a face tbh)
10. Mr. Perfect (1990)

Honorable mention to the Iron Sheik (should definitely be top 10 but I just can't bring myself to remove anyone I listed), Chris Jericho (1998 version), CM Punk (especially during his SES days), Steve Austin (just an awesome heel in 1992-1994 and 2001), and JBL (got NUCLEAR heat in 2004).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Vince McMahon is the greatest villain ever. But if we are taking wrestlers, then it has to be Flair and Triple H in the top spots. Harley Race too while you're at it.

Never seen that Noble/Rey match from 2007. Of course, I've seen the glorious Velocity match, but I really don't recall anything from Noble's second run besides The Pitbulls.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Bryan/Lesnar at Summerslam is stupid imo. Too soon for either guy. I'm actually with C2D. Turn Orton face after Evolution breaks off and feed him to Lesnar for a big Summerslam co-main event. It won't hurt him and Lesnar gets to go over a big name to keep the ball rolling.




Brock/Orton
Batista/Bryan
HHH/Reigns
Sheamus/Cesaro
Cena/Wyatt Part C (because... who the hell cares?)

That would be my favorite card.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> I know right? I shat on it and still made someone interested in seeing the match.


Goes to show that you can't prevent people from seeing greatness. :hb



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Anyone seen the Greatest Villains countdown on the network? Hilarious as fuck :lmao. My favourite part is when they have Roddy Piper at number 6 and Randy Orton at number 2 :lmao. Best joke EVER :lmao.


Orton is there? At #2 no less? Yeah, I have to go and watch that once it's up on watchwrestling!

Too bad they will just focus on the VIPER shit and completely ignore his awesome heel work from 2004-2006. But hey, including him is better than not including him.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Finally finished Jericho in 2001. Counted 111 matches, I think. Took me so long to finish.

His best year by far as well. I think even 2008 won't match this.

PPVs from most favourite to least favourite:


vs. Chris Benoit (WWF Royal Rumble, 21.01.01, Ladder, WWF Intercontinental Title)
vs. The Rock (WWF No Mercy, 21.10.01, Singles, WCW World Heavyweight Title) 
vs. The Rock (WWF Vengeance, 09.12.01, Singles, WCW World Heavyweight Title
& Kane & The Big Show & The Rock & The Undertaker vs. Booker T. & Kurt Angle & Rob Van Dam & Shane McMahon & Steve Austin (WWF Survivor Series, 18.11.01, Elimination Tag) 
vs. Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. X-Pac (WWF No Way Out, 25.02.01, Fatal Four-way, WWF Intercontinental Title) 
vs. Rob Van Dam (WWF Unforgiven, 23.09.01, Hardcore, WWF Hardcore Title) 
vs. William Regal (WWF Insurrextion, 05.05.01, Singles) 
& Kane & Kurt Angle & Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs. Booker T. & Bubba Ray Dudley & D-Von Dudley & Diamond Dallas Page & Rhyno (WWF InVasion, 22.07.01, Ten-man Tag) 
& Chris Benoit vs. Christian & Edge (WWF Judgment Day, 20.05.01, Tag Team) 
vs. Chris Benoit vs. Steve Austin (WWF King of the Ring, 24.06.01, Triple Threat, WWF World Heavyweight Title) 
vs. Rhyno (WWF Summerslam, 19.08.01, Singles) 
vs. Steve Austin (WWF Vengeance, 09.12.01, Singles, WWF Undisputed Title) 
vs. Kurt Angle (WWF Rebellion, 03.11.01, Singles, WCW World Heavyweight Title)
& Chris Benoit vs. Justin Credible & X-Pac (WWF Judgment Day, 20.05.01, Tag Team) 
vs. William Regal (WWF Wrestlemania X-Seven, 01.04.01, Singles, WWF Intercontinental Title) 
vs. William Regal (WWF Backlash, 29.04.01, Duchess of Queensbury Rules) 



Spoiler: Some great TV matches, as well:




& Chris Benoit vs. Steve Austin & Triple H (WWF Monday Night RAW, 21.05.01, Tag Team, WWF Tag Team Titles) 
& Chris Benoit vs. Jeff Hardy & Matt Hardy vs. Bubba Ray Dudley & D-Von Dudley vs. Christian & Edge (WWF Smackdown, 22.05.01, Four-way Tag TLC, WWF Tag Team Titles)
vs. The Rock (WWF Monday Night RAW, 05.11.01, Singles, WCW World Heavyweight Title)
vs. William Regal (WWF Monday Night RAW, 07.05.01, Steel Cage)
vs. Steve Austin (WWF Monday Night RAW, 10.12.01, Steel Cage, WWF Undisputed Title) 
& Chris Benoit vs. Christian & Edge (WWF Smackdown, 12.06.01, Tag Team)
& Chris Benoit & Spike Dudley vs. Bubba Ray Dudley & D-Von Dudley & Steve Austin (WWF Monday Night RAW, 18.06.01, Six-man Tag)
vs. Steve Austin (WWF Monday Night RAW, 03.12.01, Singles)
& The Undertaker vs. Rob Van Dam & The Rock (WWF Smackdown, 11.12.01, Tag Team)




I also have only read bad things about his title reign, but so far, it wasn't really disappointing or anything. Granted, I haven't watches anything from 2002 so far and HHH has yet to appear, so probably the bullshit is about to happen.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jericho's 2001 PPV stuff imo
vs Benoit: ****1/2
vs Eddie vs Benoit vs X-Pac: ***1/2
vs Regal I: ***1/4
vs Regal II: ***1/4
Tag Turmoil: ***1/2 (not much of a Tag Turmoil/Gauntlet fan at all though)
vs Austin vs Benoit: *1/2
vs Team Alliance I: ***3/4
vs Rhyno: ***1/2
vs RVD: ***1/4
vs Rock I: ****1/2
vs Angle: **3/4
vs Team Alliance II: ****1/4
vs Rock II: 3/4*
vs Austin: *

Though his 2008 kinda IS better:
vs JBL: *
Chamber: ****
MITB IV: ***1/2
vs HBK I: ****1/4
vs Kofi: 1/4*
vs HBK II: ***3/4
vs HBK III: ***1/4
WHC Scramble: ***
vs HBK IV: ****1/4
vs Batista: ***1/2
vs Cena I: ****1/4
vs Cena II: ***3/4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Can we all just admit that Jericho/Benoit at the Royal Rumble is the greatest singles ladder match ever and it's likely never going to be topped?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nope


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yep. Though perhaps one day Rollins Vs Zayn could happen and rule the world.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well at the top off my head there really is nothing that I can remember that tops it, so yup.

Though if we were to count all kinds of Ladder matches, including TLC and MITB, it would make the Top 5 at best.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Including all TLC and MITB matches... Jericho/BENOIT would come it at around... #1 still .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Can we all just admit that Jericho/Benoit at the Royal Rumble is the greatest singles ladder match ever and it's likely never going to be topped?


In a word, yup.

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----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

:yes:yes


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Including all TLC and MITB matches... Jericho/BENOIT would come it at around... #1 still .












At least imo.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On the Lesnar plans talk, I'm not jumping to see Brock/Orton, but if it gives Brock someone to squash and keep his momentum going, I'm all for it. Do wanna see Brock/Batista though (even though the match wouldn't be as good).

So have Brock beat Orton or Bryan at Summerslam

Then for the Rumble, two paths they could go from there:

1) Brock beats Bryan for the title:.: and I mean DESTROYS him. Dominates, and takes the title from Bryan with apparent ease. Bryan then comes in as a surprise at number 30 in the Rumble match itself, wins, and then goes into WM as a true ultimate underdog. Maybe they show a training montage type deal week after week of Bryan, so Bryan can get stronger, faster, and be all around much more of a match for Lesnar come Mania. Mania comes around, and in a much more competitive match, Bryan defeats Lesnar and takes the title back.

2) Bryan loses a very competitive match to Brock at the Rumble for the title that makes him look really good in defeat . If actually imagine something similar to Austin at WM13. Lesnar has Bryan in the Kimura and Bryan doesn't tap, but rather passes out due to pain. Then for the Rumble, Punk makes his shocking return at number 30 in the Rumble and wins. He goes onto Mania to beat Brock. From there, they can set up a Summerslam match between him and Bryan has two most popular baby faces going at it, with Bryan defeating Punk... Not that that has to do anything with Lesnar, but just want to make sure all the Punk haters and/or Bryan marks know, the endgame is to put over Bryan and get the title back on him .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock/Batista. No. Just no imo, is this still a 'dream' match for some people? 

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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> At least imo.


That's a top 5 for me, not #1 though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

- Brock/Batista has less chance than Orton/Brock because Batista is ruthlessly hated on by the crowd at the moment and Brock wont turn face after ending the streak. Orton can still get his face pops back by turning on Evolution and even now, he still gets positive reactions every once in a while.

- Benoit/Jericho is the greatest match involving ladders, tables, chairs, whatever.

- Any idea going forward involving Punk is automatically the worst. He's gone, #dealwithit!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Hitman said:


> Brock/Batista. No. Just no imo, is this still a 'dream' match for some people?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I used to really wanna see it... now I'm more "If it happens, cool. If it doesn't, no biggie", mainly due to Batista's overall lackluster return. Only hope would be if they had some amazing chemistry.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If Brock's schedule wasn't so limited, I'd kinda like a Cena rematch, but that seems unlikely as he is going to be in the Wyatt feud for longer now.

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----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> Brock/Batista. No. Just no imo, is this still a 'dream' match for some people?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Some people wanted to see it (I don't know how much anymore after we've all seen how bad Batista's been since returning) because they're two big stars who've never faced each other in the WWE before and such a match will probably draw regardless of what people think of it. I don't really care to see it now, but I will understand if they do it. 

Anyway what do people think on a Barrett/Sheamus feud to unify the midcard titles? This came to mind after I saw Sheamus win the US Title and the idea that they'll probably want to unify them and that's why they're having someone like Sheamus have a run with the belt to bring attention to it again. After the awful runs of Big E and Ambrose, they really need to do something with the IC and US Titles again, either start to book them properly, or unify them. With Barrett and Sheamus being two credible stars I think this could happen. Thoughts?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Sheamus/Jomo >> Benoit/Jericho imo, atleast on my most recent watches


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> But... that card doesn't look good at all.  Batista in a singles main event!?


Looks good to me. Batista/Bryan could be great imo, both as a match and as a feud. It would also still be quite fresh even after everything that has happened this year so far and Bryan losing to Batista, if he did, wouldn't be horrible. I don't think lol. They could then do Batista/Brock at the Rumble where Brock takes it, Bryan wins the Rumble and BROCK(c) vs. BRYAN AT WRESTLEMANIA SLNFLSNVJKNWKJNFJN 8*D. 

Orton was the #2 greatest villain? I love Orton and all but :ti.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Saw a list for greatest villians a couple pages back and I personally dont think that any list without the million dollar man should be taken seriously . Also I dont agree with Eddie as #3 villain and as much as I like Finlay and Regal, they really shoudnt be on the list imo. Maybe its because when I consider great heels I first jump to promos/Characters and not ring work.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Lists about heels, hein?

#1 is :vince and it's basically indisputable.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Well, it ended up making us agree on one of the topics after all.
> 
> Imagine you've seen the three way elimination match from Survivor Series '02 and/or Benoit/Angle vs Los Guerreros from Rebellion '02? Former I like and latter I don't have an opinion on, but they're more recs if you weren't aware and wanting more of that early WWE tag championship flavor.


I have seen it but not since 2003ish after I bought the VHS of SSeries 02  . Thanks again, will check those out.

Also, I had seen that 2/3 falls match but not since it aired. When it aired I thought it was one of the best things ever. I wasn't as much into wrestling back then, imagine that.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

That Jericho/Rock promo just before RR was really sweet. Now gonna watch the championship match.


----------



## daulten780 (May 9, 2013)

Going to be doing a project on the streak. Will be rating all the matches in it. Thank god for the streak dvd, didn't get the network yet


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Saw a list for greatest villians a couple pages back and I personally dont think that any list without the million dollar man should be taken seriously . Also I dont agree with Eddie as #3 villain and as much as I like Finlay and Regal, they really shoudnt be on the list imo. Maybe its because when I consider great heels I first jump to promos/Characters and not ring work.



I totally respect that view point, a lot of people feel that way, and the Million Dollar Man is definitely a great heel. For me personally though, when I consider the best heels, their ability to WORK as a heel in the ring is the number 1 thing thats important to me. If they are able to get fans to loathe and detest them without even saying a word, like Finlay does, that's a world class heel in my book. JBL got fans to hate him with his promos and character, and that's great I can totally see why some consider him one o the best heels of all time. But for me, the best heels are guys that have GREAT matches while also making you actively loathe them. That's why I rank Eddie so high, and that's why Regal and Finlay made the cut over guys like Ted DiBiase (who was one bad ass wrestler, just not so much in the WWE), JBL, and others. I want my all time great heel to both be entertaining AND evil.

How about Tully Blanchard? He was a world class worker as a heel, had great matches, AND made fans actively hate him with his character and promos. I'd have him as a top 20 or so heel for sure.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Hitman said:


> If Brock's schedule wasn't so limited, I'd kinda like a Cena rematch, but that seems unlikely as he is going to be in the Wyatt feud for longer now.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Actually, fuck Brock/Tista or Brock/Orton. BROCK/CENA II NEEDS TO HAPPEN!

And Brock needs to win this fuckin' time...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I would absolutely be down for Brock/Cena II with Brock going over. You know what I'd be even MORE down for? Brock/Cena II.....Hell in a Cell! Goodness what a match this could be. Can you just imagine Brock rag dolling Cena all over the place?! That's a match that NEEDS to happen at some point. If they go that way, I think a triple main event of Brock/Cena, Bryan/Hunter, Orton/Batista would be nice, with Cesaro taking on the biggest available name and the Shield battling The Wyatt's in a TLC match.


----------



## Unorthodox (Jan 8, 2013)

Is the best of raw after show DVD worth buying?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Including all TLC and *MITB matches*... Jericho/BENOIT would come it at around... #1 still .


Are any of them any good, Mr Fugal? I tried watching MitB I a few weeks months ago and it was so damn bad.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

First MITB is incredible. ****1/2 for it easy. In fact I *think* I gave it ****3/4 on last watch. They all go downhill from there but a bunch are still good, with one or two being great. And some stinkers too of course.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Been watching a lot of Benoit lately, and one thing I love is the way that he pushes his opponents away when he's "hurt." It comes off as so authentic, and how a person really would react if they were injured and just wanted to be left alone. He does it so quickly and frustratedly, it's great.


Also, Orton's selling in the August 16, 2004 RAW match with Benoit was beautiful. Love the way that he made the Sharpshooter look like the most painful and agonizing thing ever.

Also thought he sold the Evolution turn beautifully as well. Really came off sympathetically, with those big, sad, eyes, lol. For that night, at least, I think that he really captured what a face should be.

Also, that was one of the sickest RKO's ever.

I still maintain that Orton in that Benoit match is one of Orton's finest performances ever. I had this convo long ago when someone talked about how that match was "all Benoit." It just goes to show you that someone not being on offense much, doesn't equate to a performance being all someone else, which seems to be a common thought-process here. Orton sold like a champ, and played out the storyline beautifully, I thought.

Basically, this:


Spoiler: spoiler



About the match, 'skins, the approach totally makes sense. In the promo, it's stated that Randy DID NOT want to be involved in the match. Benoit exercised a clause that he could have a rematch at any time. Randy was saying that he was bruised, and hurt, and wanted to wait a few weeks.

So therefore, Benoit dominating the whole way through made perfect sense, because the whole thing was set up as him being the ultimate aggressor in the situation. This was highlighted throughout the match in the commentary ("Randy was up partying until 5 am", etc.). I believe that this was done for three reasons. One, to make the conclusion of the match that much more startling. Two, to highlight Orton's spirit. That he could withstand all of that, and that he kept taking it for as long as possible. This goes with the storyline that no one thought that he could really win the title the night before in the first place, that he was put on the scene too soon, etc.

Classic newcomer whom the tough, cold, hard, reality is just now setting in for, vs. the unfazed, tough, old, vet approach. Tough, old, vet, with an agenda, that is. Randy just wanted to get through the match.

The third thing is -- and this is the most important -- it played into the outcome and the aftermath of the match so perfectly. It made it seem as though Randy NEEDED those guys in life, most significantly at this time in life where he was just now embarking on this new, big, unsure, and untested point of his career. The match & Benoit's domination, highlighted that uncertainty & lack of assuredness and experience. Therefore Evolution's double cross right after their biggest salvation, was that much more devastating.

This was all highlighted by how Orton was after he won the match. Emotional; on the verge of tears; exhausted. He was completely emotionally and physically drained. Not the typical cocky, arrogant, Orton that we'd been used to seeing.

This is definitely one of my favorite matches that I've seen of Orton's yet. There's so much underlying beauty, and so many subtleties as far as storyline development goes, that the more I think about it, the more my appreciation grows.

I agree with the posters who said that it's actually better than Summerslam, but I understand why you put Summerslam so high (the significance to Randy's career).

This had a lot of beauty, though, and I thought that they both played their roles and characters perfectly throughout. Benoit was a machine, and Orton was taking and selling it so well. The Sharpshooter & Crossface moments looked really powerful, and you are right, C2D, that this had some of Orton's best hang time ever with that RKO. That did not look human. I don't know how he does it.

I thought that the moment that the double cross happened was booked beautifully too, by the way. Kudos to the booker.




How is Shawn Michaels vs. Kane at Unforgiven '04?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> Are any of them any good, Mr Fugal? I tried watching MitB I a few weeks months ago and it was so damn bad.


Not even a bit of love for a non-contrived run up a ladder to do a clothesline spot?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Anyway what do people think on a Barrett/Sheamus feud to unify the midcard titles? This came to mind after I saw Sheamus win the US Title and the idea that they'll probably want to unify them and that's why they're having someone like Sheamus have a run with the belt to bring attention to it again. After the awful runs of Big E and Ambrose, they really need to do something with the IC and US Titles again, either start to book them properly, or unify them. With Barrett and Sheamus being two credible stars I think this could happen. Thoughts?


I guess I wouldn't exactly hate the idea but I didn't like it enough when they unified the WWE & World Titles because it took guys off the card who needed opportunities to be on it. As soon as Del Rio lost the World Title to Cena, look at how many times guys like Del Rio, Christian, Ziggler, Big Show, etc. have been in singles matches on ppv. It's not many. You can even include Henry in that conversation. I'm afraid if you unify the two midcard belts you'll have just nothing at all going on in the midcard. There's no reasons for feuds or rivalries to be going on, just some more unnecessary storylines I feel like. I'd rather they just work to elevate them like they have been in the last few weeks it seems.



Starbuck said:


> Looks good to me. Batista/Bryan could be great imo, both as a match and as a feud. It would also still be quite fresh even after everything that has happened this year so far and Bryan losing to Batista, if he did, wouldn't be horrible. I don't think lol. They could then do Batista/Brock at the Rumble where Brock takes it, Bryan wins the Rumble and BROCK(c) vs. BRYAN AT WRESTLEMANIA SLNFLSNVJKNWKJNFJN 8*D.
> 
> Orton was the #2 greatest villain? I love Orton and all but :ti.


I don't understand the idea of Batista/Brock anymore. Batista is universally hated amongst just about every age group. Neither one of those two would be a face.



LilOlMe said:


> How is Shawn Michaels vs. Kane at Unforgiven '04?


Is that the No DQ one? Meh, it's watchable but Kane outworks the hell out of Shawn and the majority of it seems pointless when it boils down to the actual finish (which doesn't look that great). I _think _I gave it *** but mainly because of Kane's work.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Kane/Shawn had a better match right before WM26.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

See, I think a Barrett/Sheamus program would be weird because Barrett just beat Sheamus clean en route to winning the IC title. I wouldn't mind seeing it, but I feel like Sheamus needs a bit of a character shift, especially after his troll promo on Raw. If nothing happens with him then there was no point for that. 

Don't know how I feel about the midcard titles merging in the first place, but I suppose I wouldn't be bothered if they did do that. Ambrose losing didn't bother me as he didn't do anything with the belt and it didn't mean more. I actually think I'd like to see the titles merged so we'd hear a bit less of Cole reading the roster of people who held the title to make it seem more important than it currently is. I really dislike that.


----------



## KozmicLuis (Mar 3, 2014)

Not sure if posted already, and if it is, sorry 

Meltzer's ratings on Extreme Rules, dude showing some love for the WeeLC

El Torito vs Hornswoggle ***
Cesaro vs Jack Swagger, Rob Van Dam **½
Alexander Rusev	vs R-Truth & Xavier Woods ¾*
Bad News Barrett vs Big E ***
Dean Ambrose & Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins vs Batista & Randy Orton & Triple H ****½
Bray Wyatt vs John Cena *¾
Paige vs Tamina Snuka **
Daniel Bryan vs Kane ***½

And of course, I did also crap on the Wyatt-Cena match, a complete trainwreck.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^Keller's ratings (he didn't rate all of them):

Cesaro vs. RVD vs. Swagger - **1/4
Shield vs. Evolution - ***3/4
Bray Wyatt vs. John Cena - *
Paige vs. Tamina Snuka - *3/4

Some of his comments:


> About Cesaro vs. RVD vs. Swagger:
> 
> It never really got much past a disappointed series of sequences early and a garbage stunt match later. As a novelty on this show, it worked for its spot on the card, but it really wasn’t much above average.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the responses about HBK/Kane. Will check out that match from before WM.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just finished the Backlash 2006 triple threat between Cena/Edge/HHH

This was every bit as good as I remembered. Edge really plays his character to a T in this, his ultimate opportunist gimmick could be really entertaining at times. I don't remember much about the storylines around this time, though I will say Hunter definitely came off as a baby face here and not a heel. JR was doing his best to put over Hunter as being sadistic, but when Cena locks the STF on Hunter with blood pouring down Trips face, and Hunter ends up powering out of it, that seemed like an awfully baby face thing to do. The action outside the ring was great, although Hunter was very blatant with his blade job it didn't really detract from the match at all. Loved the Edgucation on the table, that finish is roughly 1000 times better than the spear. Hunter also just CLOBBERS Edge with a nasty chair shot to the skull to send him over the barricade. Hunter goes for the sledge but is taken out by Edge before he can use it. Hunter then tries to pedigree Cena but is caught with a roll up by Cena to retain.

This was a really, REALLY good match that borders on great at times. Thoroughly entertaining throughout. ***3/4

Now I'm gonna watch a match that truly is GREAT. Anyway you cut it, I think this match is one of the 20 or so best matches to ever take place on US soil. Possibly even top 10. I'm talking of course about the notorious Valentine vs Piper Dog Collar match at Starrcade 83'. Never seen it in HD before, really looking forward to it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Kane/Shawn had a better match right before WM26.


Ha, nope.

----------

Piper vs Valentine Dog Collar is sick. In both term for calling it great & b/c it's vicious.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I watched Piper/Valentine recently. Well, it was this year sometime. Holds up. Not sure how I'd rate it for US matches all time, though. It's an amazing match but there could be 25+ US matches from 80s alone that are better.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Are ten of them Magnum TA matches? And are the other fifteen Lex Luger matches? And are only half of them good?

Seriously though. Luger/Steamboat is the only Luger match better than Piper/Valentine.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's the 80's. That's more than believable. Although I know I'd have Pipes vs Hammer pretty high. What is "high"? idk, lets just say 100 8*D


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Kane/Shawn had a better match right before WM26.


I'll never understand this. What did it go, 5 minutes? It wasn't much of anything. Standard TV match honestly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't forget about Kane beating the hell out of Shawn. Using finishers & having the lights go out on Shawn w/a distraction by Undertaker, but Shawn still hits on superkick and wins. All in five minutes.

DUD


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Are ten of them Magnum TA matches? And are the other fifteen Lex Luger matches? And are only half of them good?
> 
> Seriously though. Luger/Steamboat is the only Luger match better than Piper/Valentine.


Not sure I'd have any Luger match > Piper/Valentine. Starrcade 88 is a maybe/the closest if not but I haven't watched it in over two years. Truthfully I've been trying for years to see the fuss behind Luger/Steamboat but only see a good match. It's the one Luger match I can think of that I like less than everybody else. Oh, and Luger/Sting v. Steiners. MOTY my ass. There's plenty of Lawler, Backlund, Steamboat, Midnight Express, Flair and Sgt Slaughter to where I don't need a Luger match here.


IDK what your opinion on Magnum TA is but based on that post I'm going to assume it's an INCORRECT one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

but the Steiners vs Sting/Luger tag OWNS nonetheless. 

and Magnum TA is the man. everyone knows this.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

We already discussed this before. I like Magnum TA. But since that's an incorrect opinion, I'll hold my head in shame. I actually thought you were talking about 25 US Title matches that were better than Piper/Valentine for some odd reason. That's where the Luger/Magnum TA comment came from. For what it's worth, I did catch an enjoyable match of Luger's recently against Tommy Rich. Granted, I mainly enjoyed it for Tommy Rich making me believe that he could pull off the victory, but both guys did well. On that same show, we had Pillman's major debut, Steve Williams motivated, and the GOAT Muta in the main event.

The other Steiners vs. Luger/Sting match was very disappointing.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Kane/Shawn had an amazing match right before WM26. :hbk


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Nobody had an amazing match before WM 26 except GOAT and Mysterio on Smackdown.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

You've got GOAT and Mysterio mixed up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus & Evan Bourne made two minutes fashionable in early 2010.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Luke Gallows and Vance Archer did too. Good thing I discovered that gem and not you who did not discover such a great match on Superstars in 2010 :side:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I watched Piper/Valentine recently. Well, it was this year sometime. Holds up. Not sure how I'd rate it for US matches all time, though. It's an amazing match but there could be 25+ US matches from 80s alone that are better.



Maybe I'm on an island then for loving this match so much, but I just finished it and it absolutely, positively, held up 1000%. Piper and Valentine deliver a master class on how to sell in a brawl, and also how to fucking BRAWL and be PHYSICAL. I literally cringe almost every time I see them throw one of those chain wrapped punches. Watch it in HD, they are fucking connecting solidly on every single one of them. This is one of those matches where I'd feel totally comfortable showing it to one of those shmucks who say "why do you watch wrestling? It's just a bunch of fake fighting, you should watch UFC, it's the real thing!". Fuck that, this Piper/Valentine match IS the real thing. I'd say it's physical but again that would probably be an understatement. I love the entire structure, how it starts with a tug of war with the guys using their necks, devolves quickly into fisticuffs, then just becomes a war of attrition to see who will survive. When Valentine locks that sleeper in close to the end, your completely convinced it's over, because how is Roddy possibly going to have enough strength to fight out of that? This is one of those matches that SEEMS longer than it actually is, but in a really good way. By the time Roddy hooks Valentines leg with the chain for the 1-2-3, you swear they have been going at it for 30+ minutes because of how nerve racking the entire experience is, when really the match is less than 20 minutes bell to hell.

You said you could name 20 matches in the 1980s that were better. The only matches that I've seen (granted probably not nearly as many as you have) that are on the level of Piper/Valentine or better from that decade are:

Sheik/Slaughter Boot Camp
Slaughter/Patterson Alley Fight
Flair/Windham BotB 1986
Flair/Funk GAB
Flair/Steamboat COTC 2/3 Falls
Tully/Magnum I Quit
Lawler/Funk No DQ
Flair/Wahoo 2/3 Falls BotB
Backlund/Patera Death Match
Duggan/Sawyer No DQ (maybe)


That's all I could think of . So yea I think it's fair to say in my humble opinion, Piper/Valentine is top 20-30 for best matches I have seen.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Gallows vs Archer is the tops. And they got to create some of that magic again this year. Joy.

Yet another lol @ WWE for letting these guys go.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Chris Masters on Superstars was the cat's pajamas.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of cat's pyjamas, it seems like current plans are that


Spoiler: Mayonnaise evolving



Sheamus will join Evolution when he does turn heel.



Can't say I hate the idea or it doesn't make sense. I kinda so see him in that position.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't even have to read it to know what that is about. I don't like it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, I don't think "Mayonnaise evolving" was too subtle :lol

Still, anything that gives us LOBSTER HEAD and some guys vs JUSTICE is glorious, especially when LOBSTER HEAD is on the dark side.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's only a rumor but we'll see where things go. Hell, I wish I didn't know. I just come online to shoot the shit about wrestling. Then some of this crap gets spread around. bluurgh.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Edge vs Van Dam VEN 06 (***3/4)
Dolph Ziggler vs Rey Mysterio SS 09 (***1/2)

Regarding Dolph, they should turn him heel to feud with Daniel Bryan. Both are yet to have a proper series together.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They've wrestled each other plenty of times. No more is needed. There isn't anything left to do.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What next for Bryan after the Kane feud? I'm not sold on doing Brock/Bryan just yet, although that's a match that I'd love to see at some point. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Much rather have face Dolph vs. heel Sheamus for the US strap than vs. Bryan tbh. I loved Sheamus/Zigglrr from NWO12 and can only presume it would be evern better with the roles reversed.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Spoiler: Full review of Fully Loaded 1999



*WWF Fully Loaded 1999 Review​*
*Match 1: Intercontinental Championship: Edge (c) vs. Jeff Jarrett ****
Edge won the title the previous night in Toronto for a house show, weird that it wasn’t a televised title change, but it was probably a great moment for Edge and the Canadian fans. Debra’s with Jarrett of course and she is wearing one hell of an outfit. She seems to bring the good ones only for PPVs. The crowd chants ‘We want puppies’, they should be careful what they wish for, the Kennel From Hell match is in two months at Unforgiven. Anyway, Jarrett starts with working Edge’s leg but takes the opportunity to work the shoulder when Edge gets pushed into the ring post. Things slow down a bit and then Edge starts mounting a comeback. He gets sent over the ropes and the lights go out. It looks like a blood bath is coming. The lights come back and Edge has laid out Gangrel. He survives that distraction and we get a good sequence of nearfalls but Gangrel ends up hanging Edge off the ropes and Jarrett gets the pin and is the IC champ again. Good match but weird booking though, Edge could really have done with a reign longer than a day.

Austin comes out and is pissed off about Taker attacking him on Heat and busting him open. Austin gives Jarrett a stunner and tells Taker that he is going to beat the hell out of him.

*Match 2: Tag Team Championships: The Acolytes vs. The Hardyz (c) & Michael Hayes ***1/4*
So this is a 3 on 2 match for the titles which is kind of odd. It’s also No DQ. To be honest I’m not sure why the faces would have the advantage. Maybe they want The Hardyz to be heel, don’t know at this point. They brawl on the outside to start with and we already get some cool high risk spots early in the match and the action moves into the ring where it turns into a regular tag team match. The Acolytes dominate for a while with each member of the defending team not able to get much in. They’re starting to throw a lot of real stiff shots though now with Hayes getting a solid kick to the back and a heavy elbow to the chest and Jeff being thrown outside the ring and landing on his head. Jeff wacks Bradshaw in the head with the cane that Hayes carries, snapping it. It doesn’t help too much though as Jeff leaps off Matt’s back and Bradshaw hurtles out of the corner with a hellacious clothesline bringing Jeff crashing down. He goes for the cover and The Acolytes are the new tag team champions, which I’m quite alright with. This is a good, fun, hard-hitting tag team match. The Hardyz are getting over too with their unique offense.

*Match 3: European Championship: D-Lo Brown vs. Mideon (c) **
Ugh Mideon. Had no idea he was the European champion, I don’t even remember the last time I saw him defend it. Can’t say I care either. I like D-Lo though and he has been out for a while but he’s back and wants his title back too. Mideon has control for the first few minutes with some pretty average offense. Some faint ‘boring’ chants are starting, not sure if that influences the match as pretty much straight away D-Lo comes back, hitting a... poor tornado DDT, can’t tell who’s at fault there. Anyway straight after that he hits the spinebuster followed by his Frog Splash finisher to a good reaction from the crowd who also likes him. D-Lo is European champion after a short and forgettable match. I really don’t like Mideon, and I’m glad to see that title on someone who people care about.

*Match 4: Hardcore Championship: Al Snow (c) vs. Big Boss Man ****
Snow hasn’t been the same since Head had a rail spike driven through the top of it’s... head. He’s been hearing voices and is more insane than usual and wanted Boss Man to hit him in the head. Boss Man hasn’t reached the ring and the fight has started and they’re already heading towards the back. This quickly gets pretty ridiculous with lots of wacky weapons and spots as you’d expect from WWF Hardcore matches. They brawl all the way to the street where Snow is quite nearly run over by someone driving through. Boss Man cuffs him to a metal fence and beats him with his stick and pins him against the fence for the win and is the new Hardcore champ. 4 title changes in a row!. Weird finish to be honest. So many weapon shots to the head and one stick shot and Snow is out. A bit underwhelming after all that. Still a fun fight though, the most enjoyable hardcore match in a while. Snow appears to be cured, he’s smiling.

*Match 5: Kane vs. Big Show **
Hardcore Holly is the referee and is being a cocky prick and is biased towards Big Show. Early in the match Big Show presses Kane and tosses him to the outside where Kane lands hard. Odd to see Kane get manhandled so easily, crazy spot regardless that gets a big reaction. Of course, from here, things slow right down. Show dominates this and Kane starts coming back with a pretty sweet DDT and a clothesline off the top. He goes for a chokeslam and Holly hits him in the knee, Show gets the pin with a fast count from Holly. Slow match with nothing really interesting, apart from that first spot. To be honest I don’t really know why Holly allied himself with Big Show.

X-Pac comes out to attack Holly but he gets taken out by The Undertaker. Taker and Show are laying into Kane. Kane turned on Taker the week before, after teaming up with him again a few weeks before that. I’ve found myself not caring much about any of this to be honest. Hell, even the main story between Austin, Taker and McMahon hasn’t interested me much in recent weeks. Anyway.

Now Austin is attacking Undertaker backstage and he’s busted open.

*Match 6: Iron Circle match: Steve Blackman vs. Ken Shamrock *1/2*
This is an unsactioned match in a circle of cars in a parking lot. Wrestlers are standing around making noise. They brawl around the circle, breaking windows and such. It doesn’t last very long as Ken chokes out Blackman and that’s kind of it. Somewhat entertaining while it lasts. 

*Match 7: Mr Ass & Chyna vs. Road Dogg & X-Pac 1/2*
This is for the rights to the DX name. I just don’t care. This match is probably totally alright. I just couldn’t care less. It bored me to be honest. The angle has bored me. The people involved bore me. I think I’ve realised why I’ve been very slowly getting through these ‘99 Raw episodes. It just hasn’t been very good lately. As I said, not even the main event angle has had much of my attention and it’s supposed to be a big deal. I don’t know why really. I just find it all to be kind of boring despite everybody in the crowds finding everything super exciting. Oh right the match, uh I dunno, one star I guess. Road Dogg and X-Pac won, I think.

*Match 8: Fully Loaded Strap match: Triple H vs. The Rock ***1/2*
No DQ, falls count anywhere. The Rock lays into Triple H with a great backstage promo before the match, bringing up the MSG incident. They don’t have to touch the corners. They’re just attached to each other with a strap. They have a pretty good match going here, dragging each other around the arena, throwing each other into barricades and whipping each other with the strap. Of course Chyna and Billy Gunn get involved with Chyna distracting the ref and Gunn hitting The Rock in the head with a club and later disrupting the pin after a People’s Elbow. Triple H hits a pedigree for the win. The interference wasn’t really necessary at all but this was still a very good match. It’s another good entry in a great rivalry that has held my interest. These two are great together.

*Match 9: WWF Championship: First Blood match: Steve Austin (c) vs. The Undertaker ***1/2*
If Taker wins, Steve Austin never gets a shot at the title again, and if Austin wins, McMahon leaves. A lot of punches in the early few minutes but both guys have been busted open already tonight so the story is that they’re trying to reopen the cuts. We get some good close calls with both guys as they brawl around. Eventually Shane runs in and Austin cracks him in the head with a chair to a huge pop. Vince tries getting involved but Austin punches him right in the face. The ref is down and X-Pac runs in and kicks a chair into Taker’s face, then Austin bashes him with a camera and Taker is busted open. Finally the ref is up and he sees it and calls for the bell. Austin is still champ and Vince has to go! This was a pretty good match, though it was more of a straight up brawl. Very fun to watch though. It’s not as good as the best between them, but it’s far better than some of the crap they put out in late 1998. There was a good bit of interference but it wasn’t as overbooked as I thought it would be.

Austin stuns him and then stuns Vince! Triple H runs in and attacks Austin. The Rock runs down and attacks Triple H. Taker’s up and Austin’s bleeding and they’re still brawling. Taker punches Shane. Austin and Taker keep going but refs are breaking it up. McMahon is in the ring upset, Austin comes in, shakes his hand and gives him a stunner to say goodbye. Austin and Taker are covered in blood. What a wild end to the show.

*Overall: 7*
Solid PPV, one of the better shows so far of 1999. Consistently decent across the board with only a couple of subpar matches. The rest was entertaining, good work from most involved throughout the show. The last two matches are well worth checking out, they don’t stretch for very long and are well-paced. While there are 3 other 3+ star matches worth watching too if you have the time.



WWF Fully Loaded 1999 

Match 1: Intercontinental Championship: Edge (c) vs. Jeff Jarrett ***
Match 2: Tag Team Championships: The Acolytes vs. The Hardys (c) & Michael Hayes ***1/4
Match 3: European Championship: D-Lo Brown vs. Mideon (c) *
Match 4: Hardcore Championship: Al Snow (c) vs. Big Boss Man ***
Match 5: Kane vs. Big Show *
Match 6: Iron Circle match: Steve Blackman vs. Ken Shamrock *1/2
Match 7: Mr Ass & Chyna vs. Road Dogg & X-Pac 1/2
Match 8: Fully Loaded Strap match: Triple H vs. The Rock ***1/2
Match 9: WWF Championship: First Blood match: Steve Austin (c) vs. The Undertaker ***1/2

Overall: 7

It's a good show, the two final matches are worth watching and the other three ***+ matches are worth checking out too if you have time. I just found the DX tag team match to be really boring though, I couldn't even be bothered writing about the match so I ranted instead. Nothing else was particularly bad.

Left me interested in seeing where Raw goes now too. I don't know what happens with McMahon. It would be weird for him to disappear so I'm sure there is some technicality to make him stick around. Triple H and The Rock have really been pushing their way up the card too and it has been great to watch.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Austin/Taker is **** imo, my fav match between the two, I posted a review for it pages back. Strong contender for MOTY 1999 (very shitty year for the in-ring product) though Rock/Mankind and NM Ladder match are marginally better.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

That's actually supposed to be ***1/2, I changed it in my word doc but forgot to here for some reason. Anyway I'd say **** is quite fair. I'm not good at giving matches a solid rating really, I just do it because it's a method that everybody understands. 

I'd be willing to say it's anywhere between ***1/2 and ****, it's a real fun match to watch. It doesn't drag, the interference makes sense and there isn't too much of it.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Twisted14 said:


> That's actually supposed to be ***1/2, I changed it in my word doc but forgot to here for some reason. Anyway I'd say **** is quite fair. I'm not good at giving matches a solid rating really, I just do it because it's a method that everybody understands.
> 
> I'd be willing to say it's anywhere between ***1/2 and ****, it's a real fun match to watch. It doesn't drag, the interference makes sense and there isn't too much of it.


I'm sure 4 stars is a bit excessive on here for a match as such. ***1/2 is a very fair and is universally agreed upon for Austin/Taker, I think. Nice to see a fellow aussie on the forum.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Shield/Wyatts IV was probably the weakest of their series but still damn good. I think it'll just make the cut for my 2014 list. Strong performances from Rollins, Ambrose and Harper as usual. Rollins doing the early work followed by Ambrose in a FIP segment leading up to the hot tag and a chaotic finishing stretch is The Shield's winning formula right now. Evolution beatdown afterwards got me pumped for the rematch. No holds barred tornado tag plz.

Bryan/Del Rio was good too. If Del Rio had any kind of momentum behind him I'd have no problem with him challenging DB at one of the smaller PPVs. Unfortunately he's a bonafide mid-carder these days.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The way Payback is shaping up, as Extreme Rules RematchAMania, doesn't sound too good outside of maybe Shield/Evolution II. I have my doubts regarding Bryan/Kane II, and I REALLY, REALLY don't want to see Cena/Wyatt III. So out of the two PPV's in May, I'm looking far more forward for Takeover. 



Spoiler: NXT



Neville/Kidd sounds quite awesome tbh.



I wish that sometime this year, they do a WWE vs NXT dream card. Imagine the greatness. Have Cesaro/Zayn V take place and Zayn finally getting his win I guess


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Payback being nothing but rematches by the looks of it is already a turn off. Only thing from Extreme Rules I liked won't recreate the madness magic it had on that show. Especially w/some of the ideas they're pitching for it. Danielson vs Kane should have only been a one time deal to begin w/.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

At least Cena/Wyatt III is guaranteed to be better than their cage match. 

Hopefully Sheamus defends the US title on the show. That could be something to look forward to.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bryan/Kane will end up being a


Spoiler: Payback



Buried Alive match by the looks of it.

How many of those have been good? Taker/Mankind, the Tag one from 1999... that's all.


Still better than some other stuff they could've came up for that.

Tbh, now that I think about it, that idea of a WWE vs NXT card sounds pretty great. As both rosters look right now, it would be shaped like this imo:
*WWE vs NXT Tag Champs:* The Usos vs The Ascension
*Monster vs Monster:* Alexander Rusev vs Mojo Rawley
*WWE vs NXT Divas Champs:* Paige vs whoever the champ will end up being (Charlotte I'd guess)
*WWE vs NXT Champs:* Daniel Bryan vs Adrian Neville
*Retirement vs Main Roster Call for Zayn:* Cesaro vs Sami Zayn
Multiple NXT alumni


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Spoiler: smackdown (no result, just thoughts on a match I'm not sure if was announced prior to SD)



Just watched Henry/Reigns and it was... much better than their first couple of matches. Granted, their first couple of matches were terrible and this one wasn't exactly "good", but it featured Henry in heel-trash talking mode, which is when he's at his best. It made the slow parts bearable. Also, even though he still sucks, to Reigns' credit, he was selling the beatdown from Raw and the assault by Henry like a champ. If you did (somehow <_<) like the previous Henry/Reigns matches, you'll definitely love this one. ** for it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Tbh, now that I think about it, that idea of a WWE vs NXT card sounds pretty great. As both rosters look right now, it would be shaped like this imo:
> *WWE vs NXT Tag Champs:* The Usos vs The Ascension
> *Monster vs Monster:* Alexander Rusev vs Mojo Rawley


:lmao

you crazy, man


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ugh. That Fully Loaded Strap Match. Hate that pile of worthless running around the building tossed in with a horribly dumb finish garbage.

Mojo Rawley is not a monster. C'mon now. 

CODY, did you not like Shield/Evolution? The only thing I can recall you saying about Extreme Rules was how Bryan/Kane was awesome.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Payback being nothing but rematches by the looks of it is already a turn off. Only thing from Extreme Rules I liked won't recreate the madness magic it had on that show. Especially w/some of the ideas they're pitching for it. Danielson vs Kane should have only been a one time deal to begin w/.


thats probably what they wanted but when Batista didn't want it they had to do it one more time and they probably don't want to do Orton/Bryan again for a long time. MITB is when the heel roster will be more free for Bryan IMO. Right now Sheamus just won US Championship (and still face for now), Barrett is IC Champion, Wyatt with Cena yet again, Cesaro is still feuding with RVD, & the other heels are not worth being in the WWEWHC Picture.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just watched Funk/Steamboat COTC. This is a good, solid match, but it's also a bit dissapointing. I expected so much more with the guys involved, and cute finish was awful. Still, definitely worth the watch I suppose. ***1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> CODY, did you not like Shield/Evolution? The only thing I can recall you saying about Extreme Rules was how Bryan/Kane was awesome.


Not really. Shield was great per usual, but it's nothing noteworthy as an overall match in the slightest. w/better opponents it would have been, etc.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Couldn't disagree more. That's actually what I just watched and I loved it even more with a second viewing. I think it's crazy some people think the first half was "dull", as if Evolution working a solid control segment with some amazing FIP work from Rollins and especially Ambrose isn't anything to sneeze at. Evolution were not GREAT by any means but they were way more than adequate and the Shield turned in one of their better performances. I almost love this just as much as the Wyatt's match at EC, it's that good. The last 5-7 minutes are pure unadulterated awesome, but the first 10 minutes are also very good and build the foundation so when the match does finally explode into chaos the viewer is caught a little off guard. I think this is one of the best performances I've seen from Ambrose.

I really dig Bryan/Kane as well but Evolution/Shield was far and away the MotN for ER 2014 in my humble opinion.


I have a feeling Shield/Evolution will be 2014's most divisive match as far as how it's rated. I've seen people give it everything from *** to ****1/2.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The crowd brawling in Evo/Shield was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything from Kane/Bryan.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Throw in some mediocre brawling and it gets love. still cracking me up.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Mediocre brawling? I think we watched different matches, that's just me though it seems 



Hayley Seydoux said:


> :lmao
> 
> you crazy, man


Usos/Ascension only makes sense I'd say, and I'd book Rusev/Rawley to go to a wild brawl with a non-contest ending Kane/Umaga style, since that would be the only bearable way to watch a match of theirs. Plus, Bryan/Neville and Cesaro/Zayn would still make the show worthwile


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Still better than the not even mediocre crap Kane and Bryan did 8*D.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Changing topics, which is the best singles Tables match of all time?

As far as I remember, Orton/Barrett TLC is a good namedrop.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bryan/Kane and Taker/Lesnar are both more divisive than Evolution/Shield. But hey, I loved both Bryan/Kane and Evolution/Shield, so I laugh at all of your dissatisfaction. Except for cjack, who also echoed my feelings on Funk/Steamboat.

Orton/Barrett is probably my choice as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal is this your way of saying you've always loved Triple H's knack for an "incredible brawl"?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Not HHH's knack, THE SHIELD's knack for a wild-ass brawl. :ambrose2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Cal is this your way of saying you've always loved Triple H's knack for an "incredible brawl"?


I'm a secret HHH ubermark 8*D.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Cal is this your way of saying you've always loved Triple H's knack for an "incredible brawl"?



Triple H HAS had some pretty good brawls, he's also had some unbearably crappy ones. I was actually finding myself wanting MORE Hunter in that 6 man, because that would mean LESS Batista. Hunter was fine in that match I thought, he certainly didn't hurt the match.


Funnyfaces: glad to know I'm not nuts. I thought someone would post something like "omfg you don't LOVE Funk/Steamer? Wtf is wrong with you?". I mean it wasn't BAD, it's definitely good, but it's also Terry freaking Funk versus the mother fucking DRAGON. That should always automatically = GREATNESS. Especially cause it's 1989, the best year for both guys careers. This is two of the top 10 or so wrestlers in the history of US wrestling in the main event of a big event. Anything less than a classic is a dissapointment.

Ugh. I'm gonna watch a match now that is totally, unequivocally AWESOME. Punk/Jericho from WM 28. It's been a while, really looking forward to this


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The brawling on the outside of the match towards the end + Rollins jump were unnecessary tbh, but it go more fans that why I guess :draper2, I thought the match was solid, have to rewatch it but I thought Kane/Bryan >>>>> it






Feast your eyes


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

ATF said:


> Changing topics, which is the best singles Tables match of all time?
> 
> As far as I remember, Orton/Barrett TLC is a good namedrop.


Dudley Boyz vs Hardy Boyz from RR 2000' hands down. That match was fantastic, ****1/4. Also, Sheamus/Cena was quite decent, but I wouldn't call it great, **3/4 seems a fair rating for that bout. Barret/Orton was good too


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes, the brawling and Rollins' spot were unneccessary, but if that's a claim that they added nothing to the match, in my view you are seriously wrong. I loved Bryan/Kane too, though.

Back on the singles Tables match subject, I said SINGLES Tables match. If it were all kinds of Tables match, Dudleys/Hardys stomps everything. I think Orton/Barrett sure has no competition. Only can think of Sheamus/Kofi from ER.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Srdjan99 said:


> Dudley Boyz vs Hardy Boyz from RR 2000' hands down. That match was fantastic, ****1/4.


That's a tag tables match though . He asked for singles .

Genuinely can't think of a good singles table match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yea you stumped me on that as well, can't remember enjoying any singles tables matches.

Hardys/Dudley's surely rules the world. But a sneaky good one I like is Eddie/Benoit vs Dudley's at Vengeance 02'. It's not GREAT or anything but it is good and definitely a fun watch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You didn't watch Orton/Barrett (and you probably will never care to), that's why 

Cena/Sheamus was average from what I remember, but nothing all that special at all.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dudleys Vs The Rock in a handicap tables match on SD in 2000 is pretty good too. And one with Kane instead of Rock as well, but not as good. DUDLEYS~!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It seems singles tables matches do mostly suck. 

On the Tag Tables subject, I also remember Rey & Cara/Rhodes Scholars from TLC 2012, and Punk & Originals/New Breed from ONS 2007 being pretty good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hardys/Dudleys had another good one on SMACKDOWN XTREME in 2001. Also featured a tag team first blood match with BOD Vs HAKU/Rikishi :mark:. And I think the main event was like Big Show/Rock/Angle for the hardcore title too lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I finally found the reason why the finish wasn't shown in that Flair/Arn vs Vader/Austin match. 

Sid did a run in at the end so wcw didnt/couldn't show it after the 'incident" and Sid leaving the company.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Hardys/Dudleys had another good one on SMACKDOWN XTREME in 2001. Also featured a tag team first blood match with BOD Vs HAKU/Rikishi :mark:. And I think the main event was like Big Show/Rock/Angle for the hardcore title too lol.


Smackdown Xtreme hein?

Excuse me while I google it.

EDIT: Found it 

Nevermind Hardys/Dudleys, Brothers Of Destruction vs Haku & Rikishi First Blood? DAYUM.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea, but once HHH/Orton and Ambrose went to that outside and all the chaos took place, iirc I was getting into the match in the ring so I was upset


Cena/Sheamus TLC and Show/Sheamus are the only ones that come to mind, pretty shitty gimmick


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Show/Sheamus? As in Tables match? Only gimmick matches I recall them having were Chairs and Lumberjack matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lol Oh yea it was a chairs match, wasnt sure as I typed that


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Gonna go watch some more MEMPHIS :mark:. Fuck shitty table matches, talk about MEMPHIS.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Gonna go watch some more MEMPHIS :mark:. Fuck shitty table matches, talk about MEMPHIS.



Have you seen the Memphis Heat doc? It's AWESOME.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

For those who havn't seen it (or havn't got the Network). Found it on YT.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Have you seen the Memphis Heat doc? It's AWESOME.


I certainly have, great stuff.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think I'll probably watch a bit of Memphis myself later having dug out my Memphis discs.  Watched Lawler/Bigelow (Texas Death Match) the other day. Wanna see more Lawler tbh, starting with the Savage matches. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Sheik/Slaughter Boot Camp
> Flair/Steamboat COTC 2/3 Falls
> Tully/Magnum I Quit
> Backlund/Patera Death Match


Love all of these 4. Backlund vs Patera Texas Death is one of my fave matches ever. I bought the best of MSG blu ray just to have that match in high def. This would be a fun list to make. The entire Flair/Steamboat trilogy is up there. Now and again I will watch all 3 back to back to back and I'm just amazed at how great they were. Entertains the fuck out of me. 

I don't think Flair/Funk I Quit at CotC and Flair/Sting CotC get enough love. Huge fan of them both. Watching that I Quit match as a 9 year old and never seeing anything like that before at the time as far as a brawl and the storytelling and just how gritty it was I just adore it. 

Obviously I'm putting Steamboat/Savage WM 3 in there. 

Savage/Bret from SNME late 1987 is incredibly underrated as well. 



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Regarding Dolph, they should turn him heel to feud with Daniel Bryan. Both are yet to have a proper series together.


I kinda dig this idea or at least a face/face feud. I'm just super confused on what they are going to do with :bryan3 the next few months. 



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Austin/Taker is **** imo, my fav match between the two, I posted a review for it pages back. Strong contender for MOTY 1999 (very shitty year for the in-ring product) though Rock/Mankind and NM Ladder match are marginally better.


My fave matches of 1999...

Bret vs Pegasus in KC 
Foley vs Rock LMS (their best match IMHO)


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I don't think Flair/Funk I Quit at CotC and Flair/Sting CotC get enough love. Huge fan of them both.


The former gets a lot of love but people seem to finally be coming around and seeing that GAB 89 > CotC. The latter, nobody really likes...I do.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> For those who havn't seen it (or havn't got the Network). Found it on YT.



Amazing Doc. Probably 3rd fave for me behind the Punk and Foley ones.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

About to watch Cena/Punk (Raw 02/23/2013). Probably the only reason I'm glad my mate bought me the 'The History Of WWE DVD' for Xmas lol.

Edit: It seems to still include the commercial breaks. Cal, didn't you upload the match on DM?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Hitman said:


> About to watch Cena/Punk (Raw 02/23/2013). Probably the only reason I'm glad my mate bought me the 'The History Of WWE DVD' for Xmas lol.
> 
> Edit: It seems to still include the commercial breaks. Cal, didn't you upload the match on DM?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I might have done http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6qIm66LHeDRvu4xq1B .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks Cal. 

Seems to be 2 commercial spots on the DVD, they could have just put the whole thing on FFS. Just seen the 'Piledriver' spot :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Is it true that this week's NXT saw


Spoiler: NXT



Samuray Del Sol's debut? :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

THE SHIELD absolutely ruled on SD this week. 3 good matches (even with BATISTA!!!), and all of them did a great job of selling their injuries from the past week of action/beatdowns. Ambrose continuing to use the Jawbreaker Lariat is like the single best thing in WWE right now :mark:.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I was already looking forward to Rollins vs Batista but if fucking CAL says something good about a Batista match, then it's definitely a must watch!

Already knew Sheamus vs Ambrose was gonna deliver and Henry vs Reigns is always looking good on paper for a big men clash.

Speaking of Batista - did you see the second match he had with Sheamus on Smackdown a couple of weeks before Wrestlemania, Cal? I think it's definitely worth a watch but I didn't hear anyone say anything about it in this thread.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nah never saw it. Barely watched any TV matches since about 3 weeks prior to WM. After EC I lost interest in a lot of what was happening so skipped through most stuff. Still the same now .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Sheamus/Batista match from SD a few weeks ago was indeed pretty good. Don't really remember much about it now, but it's definitely watchable. 



ATF said:


> Changing topics, which is the best singles Tables match of all time?
> 
> As far as I remember, Orton/Barrett TLC is a good namedrop.


Sheamus vs. Kofi from ER 2011 gets my vote, but then again I've never personally seen another singles tables match that amounted to anything. That match deserves a little more praise though. 



ATF said:


> Is it true that this week's NXT saw
> 
> 
> Spoiler: NXT
> ...


In fact it did. I believe I'll be watching that later tonight after the draft. Anyone watch Legends House in here?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> The crowd brawling in Evo/Shield was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything from Kane/Bryan.


Did you ever post your thoughts on the show?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Saint Dick said:


> Did you ever post your thoughts on the show?


Yeah, but wasn't much to it, just this:

I liked most of the 6 man, even before the super hot tag at the end and all the chaos that followed.

Hated the main event. Urgh. Just felt so dead and flat. Should have been a straight up match, then we MIGHT have gotten something halfway near Kane/Benoit at least. The shitty weapons crap just ruins most matches these days. Flaming table spot was even terrible. Didn't help that a) we saw it coming a mile away when Kane gets the table out and some dude RUNS into frame with a fucking fire extinguisher and b) the middle part of the table WASN'T EVEN ON FIRE. Hated the forklift spot too. Forklifts in wrestling have only worked twice; once when Foley pinned the Rock with it, and again when Lesnar used it to beat Show in a stretcher match.

Rest of the show was blargh. The pre-show match was legit MOTN :lmao. That's kinda awesome tbh.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

NAITCH said:


> Feast your eyes


It goes like 30 more minutes than that. And is so long that WCW ended the episode of SN before the finish.



The Hitman said:


> I finally found the reason why the finish wasn't shown in that Flair/Arn vs Vader/Austin match.
> 
> Sid did a run in at the end so wcw didnt/couldn't show it after the 'incident" and Sid leaving the company.


Didn't they show the finish the next week? I thought they did, might be wrong.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WCW pulling that stunt was such a joke. Especially on the TAPED shows.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

"If the TV time runs out we'll tell you what happens tomorrow!" :lmao :lmao

"FANS, WE'RE OUT OF TIME! WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT TOMORROW NIGHT!!!" :ti


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Injunction filed so they can't show the footage of the Hogan/Sting rematch the night after Starrcade. b/c they wanted to only use it as a way to make fans tune in and watch the first edition of Thunder. Company was still number one at this point. As if you needed such a daft reason to "draw" more fans. Ohhhhh this mess.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Also, I just started Flair/Steamboat, Clash of the Champions. :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> It goes like 30 more minutes than that. And is so long that WCW ended the episode of SN before the finish.
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't they show the finish the next week? I thought they did, might be wrong.


Yea wtf, I watched the video as I posted it fpalm @ showing the ending to that match the next week


Edit: Anything from Smackdown good ? Just got home


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Helmsley said:


> Also, I just started Flair/Steamboat, Clash of the Champions. :mark:



Enjoy brother. One of the greatest matches of all time for a reason. That second fall :mark: :mark:

Honestly though, and this is gonna sound blasphemous I know, if I were forced to watch an hour long match, my favorite is Angle/Lesnar IronMan. I know Flair/Steamboat is the better match, but that Ironman is just so much fun to match. Lesnar is such a splendid heel, he gets fantastic heat on Angle. Hell the first 10 minutes or so are just him stalling and he does it so well that it's still thoroughly entertaining.

Speaking of stalling, has anyone seen Savages first televised match in WWE against Rick McGraw? Savage gets NUCLEAR heat within minutes of debuting by doing some masterful stalling, it's not boring at all to watch and it's fun to see how worked up and angry the fans get every time Randy rolls out and starts pacing around the ring. Gotta love the Macho Man, he is truly in a class all his own.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, that Savage match is a lot of fun. Damn strong debut/showcase match.

Flair vs Steamboat - CLASH. Always a good decision.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Not sure if you've seen Bryan/Nigel's 60 minute match but the first 13 or so minutes is just a headlock and it's the most entertaining thing ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

And upon memory I wouldn't even say that was the best 60 minute draw Danielson had that year either. The match vs Joe edges it out for me. Which is absurd, but we've all should let this sink in by now. The match vs Strong from SCOH is _practically_ 60 minutes too. That's another good one.

Most recent thought of a tremendously worked 60 minute match goes to Callihan vs Cole last year. As it always goes when it's top notch; feels like 20 minutes. Just so terrific.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Enjoy brother. One of the greatest matches of all time for a reason. That second fall :mark: :mark:
> 
> *Honestly though, and this is gonna sound blasphemous I know, if I were forced to watch an hour long match, my favorite is Angle/Lesnar IronMan. I know Flair/Steamboat is the better match, but that Ironman is just so much fun to match. Lesnar is such a splendid heel, he gets fantastic heat on Angle. Hell the first 10 minutes or so are just him stalling and he does it so well that it's still thoroughly entertaining.*
> 
> Speaking of stalling, has anyone seen Savages first televised match in WWE against Rick McGraw? Savage gets NUCLEAR heat within minutes of debuting by doing some masterful stalling, it's not boring at all to watch and it's fun to see how worked up and angry the fans get every time Randy rolls out and starts pacing around the ring. Gotta love the Macho Man, he is truly in a class all his own.


This. That match is one of my favorites of all time, to be honest. Two of my favorites duking it out for sixty minutes? :mark: material.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> This. That match is one of my favorites of all time, to be honest. Two of my favorites duking it out for sixty minutes? :mark: material.


Agreed. Seriously feel robbed that Lesnar didn't stick around considering all the natural talent he had for wrestling. I rewatch a bunch of his shit all the time. Just yesterday watched him vs Punk. One of my favorite matches. I give it like ****1/2 but it's such a fun watch.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Triple H vs Orton ratings:

Unforgiven 2004 (**1/2)
Rumble 2005 (***1/4)
No Mercy 2007 I (***)
No Mercy 2007 II (****1/4)
Judgement Day 2008 (**)
One Night Stand 2008 (**)
WM25 (*)


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> Agreed. *Seriously feel robbed that Lesnar didn't stick around considering all the natural talent he had for wrestling.* I rewatch a bunch of his shit all the time. Just yesterday watched him vs Punk. One of my favorite matches. I give it like ****1/2 but it's such a fun watch.


It's a shame his heart wasn't fully in it. He would have possibly become one of the GOATs if he stayed.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The chicken wing submission :wall


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Helmsley said:


> The chicken wing submission :wall


I've felt for a while a cross-face chicken wing would be an EXCELLENT submission for someone to use. Benoit used both the Crippler Crossface and the Sharpshooter, Bryan could definitely use it along with the Yes Lock.

But Bryan isn't the guy I'm thinking of. No, I think Cesaro would be the perfect guy for that hold. OR, he could even use the double chicken wing. He's so strong and powerful, it would definitely be a sight to see him lifting opponents in their air by their arms and forcing them to give up.

Knowing how WWE thinks though, they like submission finishers that guys can reach the ropes on. That way you can build drama in a match by having the guy fight to get to the ropes and break the hold. That's why I don't think they'd like Cesaro using a double chicken wing. That problem doesn't exist with the Crossface chicken wing. Guys still have a free arm to grab the ropes with or to tap out.

So yea, if WWE really sees money in Cesaro and wants him to be a main event guy, they should have Backlund come in and honor Cesaro as the best wrestler on the roster, a guy deserving of the cross face chicken wing submission. I think that would be pretty cool.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Danielson actually used the chicken wing as one of his many signature submissions for a few years on the indies. The most distinctive one that's in my head was against James Gibson(Jamie Noble) in '05.



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Triple H vs Orton ratings:
> 
> Unforgiven 2004 (**1/2)
> Rumble 2005 (***1/4)
> ...


Watch their LMS match from RAW in '09. Actually better than 85% of that list.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

They had ANOTHER LMS match, lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hahaha. Yes they did. It's worked completely differently than the others though.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Danielson actually used the chicken wing as one of his many signature submissions for a few years on the indies. The most distinctive one that's in my head was against James Gibson(Jamie Noble) in '05.


jaja he won the ROH title with that move vs Gibson.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> They had ANOTHER LMS match, lol.


If you haven't seen their classic encounter from The Bash 2009, then you must. Worse than 100% of that list.  :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Three Stages of Hell always bringing the lulz.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I've felt for a while a cross-face chicken wing would be an EXCELLENT submission for someone to use. Benoit used both the Crippler Crossface and the Sharpshooter, Bryan could definitely use it along with the Yes Lock.
> 
> But Bryan isn't the guy I'm thinking of. No, I think Cesaro would be the perfect guy for that hold. OR, he could even use the double chicken wing. He's so strong and powerful, it would definitely be a sight to see him lifting opponents in their air by their arms and forcing them to give up.
> 
> ...


Nah. Stretch Muffler aka the original Neutralizer is the best bet. Busting it out vs Zayn was tremendous and having it added to this game would be superb. If Solomon Crowe/Sami Callihan isn't going to be using it when he's finally called up, that is. Plus, Cesaro has made his chinlock sleeper hold a thing of beauty. He's locked down w/submission based effectiveness at this point.

Drew McIntyre could use a submission like this if he mattered. b/c his standard rest hold in a match has his arm positioned over the opponents head while capturing a limb, a la the crossface chickenwing. He gives off a good vibe that he can be all dirty and menacing while locking it in. There I go again living in fantasy world though. But in my head, it looks great. Not really thinking it through w/guys who have a career. Ambrose. Yeah, Ambrose can use it. He has before iirc. K, he wins instead. Let him use it on a daily basis now.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

NAITCH said:


> Yea wtf, I watched the video as I posted it fpalm @ showing the ending to that match the next week
> 
> 
> Edit: Anything from Smackdown good ? Just got home



Ambrose vs Sheamus was good, really entertaining and physical. MOTN easily. Worth a watch.

Liked Reigns vs Henry too tbh. Reigns selling his injuries from the Evolution beatdown very well and Henry was in heel mode, trash talking and roughing his opponent up. Short match but entertaining throughout.

Rollins vs Batista well.....Rollins basically took most of the offense to try make Batista look good. Batista was strictly okay but his control segment was so boring. Can watch but the Reigns and Ambrose matches were better imo.

Barrett/Cesaro vs RVD/Big E was very short. A longer match would have felt better but then again maybe not. I was excited to see a BNB and Cesaro team in action so felt slightly robbed :lol


Kinda weird edition of SD. Don't think there was any promo or backstage stuff, just match after match after match. With the Bryan/Kane horror angle recap thrown in.

Bo Dallas debut next week though :banderas


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Speaking of stalling, has anyone seen Savages first televised match in WWE against Rick McGraw? Savage gets NUCLEAR heat within minutes of debuting by doing some masterful stalling, it's not boring at all to watch and it's fun to see how worked up and angry the fans get every time Randy rolls out and starts pacing around the ring. Gotta love the Macho Man, he is truly in a class all his own.


Oh yeah!  



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Danielson actually used the chicken wing as one of his many signature submissions for a few years on the indies. The most distinctive one that's in my head was against James Gibson(Jamie Noble) in '05.


That he did. I knew he used it against Gibson but I don't think I have seen the match where Bryan won the ROH title. Anyone know if it is on an ROH DVD? I just purchased the ROH DVD set Bryan Danielson World Champion. Its a bunch of matches from his kick ass ROH title reign. Can't wait to get to the matches with Samoa Joe. :mark: I have not seen them in a years. Ahhh the things the E could have done with Samoa Joe. Doesn't look like it will ever happen though. Booooo. 

Just watched Backlund/Patera Texas Death from MSG in 1980. I will go the full ***** on that one. Incredibly entertained by it. There should be a Backlund DVD set. All of you fellow Wrestlenerds should tell me your top 10 favorite Backlund matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> That he did. I knew he used it against Gibson but I don't think I have seen the match where Bryan won the ROH title. Anyone know if it is on an ROH DVD? I just purchased the ROH DVD set Bryan Danielson World Champion. Its a bunch of matches from his kick ass ROH title reign. Can't wait to get to the matches with Samoa Joe. :mark: I have not seen them in a years. Ahhh the things the E could have done with Samoa Joe. Doesn't look like it will ever happen though. Booooo.
> 
> Just watched Backlund/Patera Texas Death from MSG in 1980. I will go the full ***** on that one. Incredibly entertained by it. There should be a Backlund DVD set. All of you fellow Wrestlenerds should tell me your top 10 favorite Backlund matches.


If you got the Danielson set, then the match vs Gibson should be the very first thing on it considering that's when it began. Can't believe that actually got made into a legit set. That's over 30 matches iirc and some that go 60 minutes. Brilliant. I'd rather own all the full shows from that era, but I may have to cave and get that to fill in the gaps w/the bouts I don't own.

Backlund gave Patera his best match there. I can jump the gun on everything else Patera did b/c he was working vs Bob god damn Backlund. A top ten favorites list? Phew. Now that's a bold project I may have to devote some time to. b/c nearly everything he did is worthy of being a favorite.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

bigbuxxx said:


> Seriously feel robbed that Lesnar didn't stick around considering all the natural talent he had for wrestling.


He did the right thing for himself. Look at his coutnerparts: Eddie dead, Benoit killed his family, Angle is wheelchair bound, Rey doesn't have knees, etc. Obviously he knows his physical limitations.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Oh, I'm sure that he did and being a family guy myself I'd certainly take spending time with family over money and a job. The selfish part of me wanted more though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, I expected Sheamus/Ambrose to be a good little physical showdown, but I never expected that much of clubbing war. Who would've thought that Sheamus as the heel and Ambrose as the face would actually work? But it so clearly did here. Sheamus actually wasn't a full fledged heel tbh, but he was clearly showing a very heelish mood. Ambrose more than kept up w/him in the brawling aspect, and gave us another marvelous FIP performance, while still selling the Raw beatdown. Might just give it ***1/2, depending on rewatch terms.

Hopefully Reigns/Henry, Rollins/Batista and Cena & Usos/Wyatts are good too.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ATF said:


> Wow, I expected Sheamus/Ambrose to be a good little physical showdown, but I never expected that much of clubbing war. Who would've thought that Sheamus as the heel and Ambrose as the face would actually work? But it so clearly did here. Sheamus actually wasn't a full fledged heel tbh, but he was clearly showing a very heelish mood. Ambrose more than kept up w/him in the brawling aspect, and gave us another marvelous FIP performance, while still selling the Raw beatdown. Might just give it ***1/2, depending on rewatch terms.
> 
> Hopefully Reigns/Henry, Rollins/Batista and Cena & Usos/Wyatts are good too.


Just watched that match myself. Good stuff. I'm totally sold on Ambrose as a babyface. His style is so different to conventional WWE babyfaces like Bryan, Mysterio and Cena but he's putting it all together and really making it work. Sheamus on the other hand, that guy is the epitome of consistency. Can't remember the last time he had a sub-par performance.

EDIT: Henry/Reigns was good too. Short and sweet.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Forgot to mention that the end for Sheamus/Ambrose I liked too, given how much it made Ambrose look like a true fighting face - the style I'm fond of.

The other two Shield singles matches were nice too. Henry/Reigns was easily better than the (already fun) 2/3 minute matches they've had on TV in February, w/Reigns pulling by far his best selljob to date and Henry in TRASH TALK HEEL MODE ruling the fucking world. And Batista/Rollins was probably not as good (or solid) as Batista/Sheamus but still OK, w/Batista looking better here than since... January. And that was mostly thanks to Rollins' selling, but he still pulled some smart tricks. 

Someone mentioned Barrett & Cesaro/RVD & Big E being very short. I totally agree - by that ending stretch alone, and the :mark:dom of seeing Barrett & Cesaro as a team, I wanna see a much longer match than that. Hey, Raw typically copies SD stuff. How about giving those guys 10-15 minutes and let them rule the world? Well, the team of Barrett & Cesaro that is. And as far as the Main Event 6-Man Tag goes, it was basically everything I'd expect, but kinda not so good as I expected. It did get a little contrived by the end.

Ratings for SD:
Sheamus/Ambrose: ***1/2 (yes, I thought it was THAT good)
Midcard Tag: **
Henry/Reigns: **1/2
Batista/Rollins: **1/2
6-Man Tag: **3/4


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

k4PbuOeIblvlwG4pM0L?start=2080

Back and forth Daniel Bryan/CM Punk chants here are... interesting. Video's already linked to the chants.

This is Boston, supposedly a "smarky" crowd, and Punk's playing the heel while Bryan's the face. Plus, both of these are supposedly loved by a decent portion of such fans. 

Would love to have seen how the crowd would've reacted to a DB/Punk face-off in 2014, with both of them face.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Bryan vs Punk at WM31 or any other major event would be the bees knees.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Just watched Backlund/Patera Texas Death from MSG in 1980. I will go the full ***** on that one. Incredibly entertained by it. There should be a Backlund DVD set. All of you fellow Wrestlenerds should tell me your top 10 favorite Backlund matches.


As great as Backlund/Patera is, I don't even have it in my top 5 for BOB!!!

1. Bob Backlund Vs Sgt. Slaughter - WWF 10/01/1981
2. Bob Backlund Vs Sgt. Slaughter – WWF 21/03/1981
3. Bob Backlund Vs Adrian Adonis - MSG 18/01/1982
4. Bob Backlund Vs Greg Valentine - MSG 19/02/1979
5. Bob Backlund Vs Don Muraco - MSG 21/09/1981

Patera match would likely slide in at #6 atm, with Bob Backlund Vs Don Muraco WWF - 17/10/1981 in at #7. But it has been a while since I've watched any of this stuff (gonna be re-watching a whole lotta BOB soon though :mark, so it could go up or even down depending on how much I like it this time around OR how much more I like other stuff.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> If you got the Danielson set, then the match vs Gibson should be the very first thing on it considering that's when it began. Can't believe that actually got made into a legit set. That's over 30 matches iirc and some that go 60 minutes. Brilliant. I'd rather own all the full shows from that era, but I may have to cave and get that to fill in the gaps w/the bouts I don't own.
> 
> Backlund gave Patera his best match there. I can jump the gun on everything else Patera did b/c he was working vs Bob god damn Backlund. A top ten favorites list? Phew. Now that's a bold project I may have to devote some time to. b/c nearly everything he did is worthy of being a favorite.


Set starts with a great match with :aries but I agree I wish the Gibson match was on there. I highly recommend the set. I will probably get the Final Countdown one they have too which goes over Bryan's last year in ROH. 

Here is the match listing for those interested. A bargin for $20.

Disc 1
1. Bryan Danielson vs. Austin Aries...Enter The Dragon 10/14/05
2. Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Sabin...Showdown In Motown 11/4/05
3. Bryan Danielson vs. Rocky Romero...Steel Cage Warfare 12/3/05
4. Bryan Danielson vs. AJ Styles...Dissension 1/28/06
5. Bryan Danielson vs. Jimmy Rave...4th Anniversary Show 2/25/06
6. Bryan Danielson vs. Alex Shelley...Arena Warfare 3/11/06
7. Bryan Danielson vs. Lance Storm...Better Than Our Best 4/1/06

Disc 2
8. Bryan Danielson vs. Colt Cabana...Chi-Town Struggle 6/24/06
9. Bryan Danielson vs. Samoa Joe...Fight of the Century 8/5/06
10. Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong...Anarchy In the UK 8/13/06
11. ROH Video Recap 9/13/06 with clip of injury and Danielson promo from the office
12. Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA...Glory By Honor V Night 2 9/16/06
13. Bryan Danielson vs. Samoa Joe (No DQ, Must Be A Winner, Non Title Match)...Irresistible Forces 10/28/06
14. Bryan Danielson vs. Homicide...Final Battle 2006 12/23/06

A Backlund WWE set needs to see the light of day. 



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> As great as Backlund/Patera is, I don't even have it in my top 5 for BOB!!!
> 
> 1. Bob Backlund Vs Sgt. Slaughter - WWF 10/01/1981
> 2. Bob Backlund Vs Sgt. Slaughter – WWF 21/03/1981
> ...


Again, they should make a Backlund set. 

I'm sure they would put the Backlund/Bret SS 94 match on there so they could advertise it as battling stars such as Bret Hart. I also think Backlund had a pretty good match with HBK in I wanna say 93? Not to mention all the awesome 70s-80s stuff. Fun idea for a better America.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Three Stages of Hell always bringing the lulz.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




As beautiful as his chinlock is, he isn't beating people with it. I can't recall a wrestler ever using a submission as a standard move for a while then turning it into his finishing hold. Most of the main event baby faces (Cena, Danielson, Punk, Sheamus, plus heel Jericho) have both a finishing move and a finishing submission. I'm simply saying if Cesaro goes that route and has to add a finishing submission, the cross face chicken wing would be pretty sweet. He'd really make it look deadly.

That said he is totally fine with the Neutralizer being his go to finish now. I don't see the NEED to have a submission, but WWE might want him to have one if he's gonna be a main event guy cause they can really add drama to a match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Agreed about :cesaro using the crossface chicken wing. Would be a cool idea. I like when a dude has a regular finisher AND a submission finisher. I need to brush up on Claudio Castagnoli matches. I've really only seen a handful of matches. Most against :bryan


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

One of these days I'll have to go on a CC kick. I actually didn't like the guy in ROH . Took about a year of his WWE career for me to start caring about him too .


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> One of these days I'll have to go on a CC kick. I actually didn't like the guy in ROH . Took about a year of his WWE career for me to start caring about him too .


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)




----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I just noticed a 1997 MSG card on the network that has Vader vs The Undertaker in a casket match :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> I just noticed a 1997 MSG card on the network that has Vader vs The Undertaker in a casket match :mark:


Yep that will be watched! 1997!! :lenny :mark:

That must be fairly new yeah? I didn't see that on there last time I looked. What else is on the card? I'm at work and can't look.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just looked at the card, there is a Rock/HHH match that I'll watch in the off chance it is good, which it may be. But besides that and the ME the rest of the card is typical AE shit like Ahmed Johnson vs Savio Vega and Farooq vs Goldust 

I dont think you can get to the show through VOD yet, you have to go through the schedule, its on the live stream sometime monday


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Pretty sure that match is still up on YT too.

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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah shouldn't be hard to watch that casket match, it's been available for years, going back in the early days of Classics on Demand and shit. Match is fun, nothing more though.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HHH/Rock sucked ass, big shock :side:

Vader/Taker Casket was WAY too short, it was only like 5-6 mins and it could have gone 20 more and would have been awesome. I'll give the match *** because for the time it was given I was thoroughly enjoyed. 

They film all house shows right? Can we get a bunch from like 2000-2008 on the network? Their are some dream matches the WWE has ON TAPE yet I am resorted to watching a tape someone recorded with their cell phone :lol.

My number one wish for The network is Nitros and WCW Saturday Night tapings, and they announced SNME will be going up in July :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just a thought on the streak I wanted to say. It now seems more about ending it just for that shock moment, or to force Taker into retirement, maybe for his own good in Vince's view.

I guess we will see, but it seems that Lesnar just happened to be the bloke who was there this year, I don't trust them to have any long term plan for him to benefit from ending it tbh, or by him helping anyone else, considering the decision wasn't made until literally hours before the match, I thought the ending of the streak would have been a long strategic plan, discussed throughly between Vince and Taker.

Just stinks tbh.

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----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Another house show on the network? Awesome!

Finally got around to watching the pre-show matches from the last two PPVs. The 4-way tag at Wrestlemania was fun but nothing too special outside of the last few minutes. Had we just gotten Usos vs. Real Americans I'm sure it would've been much better as a whole. Might have reached Shield/Usos pre-show status.  ** 3/4 for that.

The WeeLC match at Extreme rules was obviously a lot of fun. Was it better than the top two matches on the card? No. Was it even better than the the opening three way with Cesaro? No. But it was certainly fun and something you don't see out of the WWE. ** 1/2 for fun and a bunch of spots.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Am I the only one thrilled the streak is over? And I even like :taker it was just time to end IMHO. I wanted :brock :angle2 or Sting to break it so I'm happy with the outcome. That being said :taker against Sting needs to happen at Mania 31 and with Mania 32 rumored to be in Dallas with 100,000 people there I don't see :taker not being involved somehow. Maybe against :brock one last time with :taker finally going over? Stay tuned, kids.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I hope the WWE Network puts out every single house show they can - that way, we can get the 2007 TAKER/UMAGA match :mark:

On Corey's pre-show subject, I've seen every single pre-show match to date, and... well... the overall quality isn't spectacular.  This is how I would rank them ALL:

Shield vs Usos MITB 2013, ***1/2
Torito vs Hornswoggle ER 2014 ***1/4
Sheamus vs Sandow PB 2013, ***
Elimination Tag WM 30, ***
Santino vs Cesaro SS 2012, ***
Colons vs Usos vs Airstrike WM 28, **3/4
Ambrose vs RVD SS 2013, **3/4
Rhodes Bros vs Outlaws RR 2014, **3/4
Cesaro vs Miz RR 2013, **1/2
Rhodes Bros vs Rybaxel EC 2014, **1/2
Tag Team Turmoil NOC 2013, **1/2
Air Truth vs Hunico & Camacho MITB 2012, **1/4
Ziggler vs Sandow BG 2013, **1/4
Miz vs Kofi SVS 2013, **1/4
Battle Royal NOC 2012, **1/4
Kane vs Ryder OTL 2012, **1/4
Barrett vs Miz WM 29, **
Sandow vs Kofi HIAC 2013, *3/4
CoBro vs 3MB SVS 2012, *3/4
Miz vs Cody ER 2013, 3/4*
Ziggler vs Fandango TLC 2013, 1/2*
Santino vs Miz ER 2012, 1/4*
Otunga vs Clay NWO 2012, DUD
Rhodes Scholars vs Tons Of Funk EC 2013, DUD
Divas Battle Royal TLC 2012, DUD


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Reigns & Rollins vs The Usos at MitB 2013 was really good I thought. Crowd was super into it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone remember the Roddy Piper vs. Randy Savage (Wrestlefest 1990) match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> The WeeLC match at Extreme rules was obviously a lot of fun. Was it better than the top two matches on the card? No. Was it even better than the the opening three way with Cesaro? No. But it was certainly fun and something you don't see out of the WWE. ** 1/2 for fun and a bunch of spots.


Not better than the opener, what?



ATF said:


> On Corey's pre-show subject, I've seen every single pre-show match to date, and... well... the overall quality isn't spectacular.  This is how I would rank them ALL:
> 
> Shield vs Usos MITB 2013, ***1/2
> Torito vs Hornswoggle ER 2014 ***1/4
> ...


99% of the matches here suck :lmao



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> One of these days I'll have to go on a CC kick. I actually didn't like the guy in ROH . Took about a year of his WWE career for me to start caring about him too .


Not surprised. 8*D


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*@MachoMadness*, Just imagine if Shield/Usos was in the card instead of Axel/Miz and Jericho/Ryback (Jericho should've been in the All-Stars MITB, Ryback in the WHC Title MITB, Axel/Miz in the pre-show). MITB already had FOUR ***3/4 matches. That in the actual card would've made it PPV of the Year period.

*@Cody*, what did you thought of Hornswoggle/Torito?

I'm in the mood of STARZ right now, how many STARZ would you put in every PPV Main Event from last year?

For me:
Punk vs Rock I: DUD
Rock vs Punk II: **3/4
Rock vs Cena: *
HHH vs Lesnar: ***1/2
Cena vs Ryback: *1/4
All-Stars MITB: ***3/4
Cena vs Bryan: ****1/2 / Bryan vs Orton I: DUD (but memorable moment)
Orton vs Bryan II: ***1/4
Orton vs Bryan III: ***
Orton vs Bryan IV: ***
Orton vs Show: 1/4*
Orton vs Cena: **1/2

Not really a stellar record it seems.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TLC w/midgets was the most surreal experience of the year. And I just got done watching a lumberjack match w/transsexuals.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I'd defo say Goldberg is a better in-ring worker than Ryback.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels (Munich 4/14/92) - Wanna see golden selling, watch this. Loved it that Savage still 'sold' the knee for weeks after Mania.

About to watch Vader/Flair (Starrcade 1993). :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels at European Rampage - April 19, 1992 (on the Savage set) is awesome. 

I have not seen the match on 4-14. Is it better? 

Is there a better seller all time than Savage? Biased yes but he was incredible at it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels at European Rampage - April 19, 1992 (on the Savage set) is awesome.
> 
> I have not seen the match on 4-14. Is it better?


Its the same match, just got the date wrong.  (as its was on the European tour).


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Right on haha. Yep great stuff.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> And I just got done watching a lumberjack match w/transsexuals.


Chyna?


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

In Your House VI 


_Loser Gets Dressed Like a Baby…_
*Razor Ramon vs. The 1-2-3 Kid w/Ted Dibiase* 

Dumb stipulation aside this was actually really good. I was really impressed with how The Kid managed to both play and aggressive heel while still being the underdog in the match. When he was in control of the match and locked in a sleeper he would jump onto Ramon’s back to do so. He controlled the match but did so in a way that recognized the size difference and that he was the underdog. Kid also took some great looking bumps from Hall and it certainly helped that they were friends because Hall sold all of Kid’s offense. Normally I would say that Sean Waltman should never be working as a heel but he really made it work here. The ending was kind of funny as well I think. I’m pretty much a fan of any match that has members of the Kliq wrestling each other and this was no exception.
****¼ *


*Hunter Hearst Helmsley w/Some Girl vs. Duke “The Dumpster” Droese*

I really don’t have much to say about this match. It was pretty forgettable really. I liked how Triple H would flop around when Duke would get some offense in but that’s really the only memory that I have of the match. Basic and forgettable but not bad. 
**1/2* 


*The British Bulldog w/Jim Cornette vs. Yokozuna *

Before the match Yokozuna cuts a very Samoan promo… I didn’t think this was very good. It was all Yokozuna and I don’t think that works very well when he’s the face. You have Bulldog trying to hang in there and get in some offense but there wasn’t much of it and Yokozuna was also too big for Bulldog to show off any of his cool power moves. Throw in a weak ending and this was a pretty unenjoyable match.
***


*Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart w/Jim Cornette*

Shawn seemed to be on some really good drugs at the start of the match. I’m writing this a few days after I actually watched the match and I can’t say that there is a lot that I remember about the match. It was solid, there were some good callbacks to Shawn’s head injury, and Owen played a good heel. There was enough flashy offense to make this fun to watch but I was really expecting more from it considering who was involved. It was still good but it’s nothing that I would bother going out of your way to see.
*****


_Cage Match for the WWF Championship_
*Bret Hart(c) vs. Big Daddy Cool Diesel*

I hated this. Absolutely hated it. They had a classic match at Survivor Series a few months prior to this and I could watch that match every day. I’ve seen their other matches together and those are also pretty incredible. But this just was good. What I liked about the previous match was how Nash was this monster that Bret had to use his brains to defeat. Hart had a tactical plan and pulled it off well while trying to withstand the onslaught from Nash. It makes a great dynamic and in theory locking them in a cage would be great. But instead of that we got a slow paced slugfest. Bret didn’t target the leg and instead went toe to toe with Nash. This just wasn’t what I wanted to see and they didn’t pull it off. Maybe if Bret had come in as a fiery babyface it could have worked but he was still methodical in the ring and ,if I’m being honest, good chunks of the match were boring. Throw in an ending that wasn’t clean and I saw two guys that are capable of greatness have a bad match. I know this is generally considered to be the worst of their series of matches together but I didn’t expect that I would hate this so much. I mean I guess it’ not the worst thing ever but for these 2, in a cage, for 20 minutes or so this should have been a lot better.
**3/4*​
The 2 main events didn’t really deliver to what I was expecting. This show is a lot better on paper than it actually is.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

For ROH fans what are your top 5 (more if you want) ROH PPVs?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Pretty sure many will say Man Up '07 is nº1.

After seeing a ridiculous top 100 list on YT, made me think: what are iyo the top 10 best finishers of all time?

Stunner has to be there. Goldberg's Spear, RKO and maybe F-5 too. Rest? Idk


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Top Ten Finishers (No Order)

Diamond Cutter
Last Ride
Tombstone
Red Arrow
Sharpshooter
Figure Four Leg Lock
Vertebreaker
Steiner Screwdriver
Splash Mountain
Not sure what the last one would be. Probably the Phoenix Splash.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Even though it can be used before the finish, the Shooting Star Press has always been one of my faves.

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----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

Top Ten Finishers ?

Lariat - Stan Hansen 
Brainbustaaaah - El Generico 
Backdrop Driver - Steve Williams 
Death Blow - Chris Hero 
Tombstone Piledriver - Undertaker 
Boma Ye - Shinsuke Nakamura 
Burning Hammer - Kenta Kobashi 
Tiger Driver 91 - Mitsuharu Misawa 
Scorpion Rising - Meiko Satomura 
Rising Sun - Samuray del Sol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Can-Am Express or Miracle Violence Connection? 

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----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

Tough choice. 
They're two of my favs but I'm in a big Can-Am mood lately. I watch right now a ECW TV show just for them.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Best finishers....let's see

Rainmaker
Red Arrow
Vertebreaker
Boma Ye
Five Star Frog Splash
Scorpion Cross Lock
RKO
Tombstone Piledriver
F5
Brogue Kick

Mostly included just current day finishers.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Vertebreaker is/was fucking INSANE. Even insaner than the Vadersault. Lord bless Helms for pulling that thing off safely.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

It looks even better when done by a woman :lol

The Kudome Valentine it was originally called I think. Performed by Megumi Kudo. Just looks brutal as fuck.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jesus fucking Christ, you're right. That one looks even sicker. Kudos to that Megami chick then - that thing makes Jerry Lawler's Piledriver look like the fucking Worm.

Now, in a more recent topic, is Ambrose & Rollins/Real Americans from March worth my time? Because that sounds INSANE.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Fuck. I need to stay off High Spots! Just bought the Bryan Danielson Final Countdown set. Not to mention a sweet AWA patch for my backpack!!







:mark:

Here is the match listing for the set I bought....

Disc 1

Bryan Danielson vs. Matt Sydal - Death Before Dishonor V Night 1 - 8/10/07
Bryan Danielson vs. Austin Aries - Take No Prisoners - 3/16/08
Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black (World Tag Team Title Match) - Respect Is Earned II - 6/7/08
Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black - New Horizons - 7/26/08 :mark:
Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries vs. Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin - Fueling The Fire - 8/1/08
Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black vs. Kenny Omega - Bound By Hate - 11/8/08
Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli (No DQ Match) - Southern Hostility - 12/6/08 :mark:
Bryan Danielson vs. Jerry Lynn - All Star Extravaganza IV - 12/26/08


Disc 2

Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush - Steel City Clash - 3/20/09
Bryan Danielson & Roderick Strong vs. The American Wolves - ROH on HDNet Episode 33
Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong - ROH on HDNet Episode 34
Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero - The Final Countdown Tour: Dayton - 9/18/09
Bryan Danielson vs. Austin Aries (ROH World Title Match) - The Final Countdown Tour: Chicago - 9/19/09
Bryan Danielson vs. Davey Richards - The Final Countdown Tour: Boston - 9/25/09
Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - Glory By Honor VIII - 9/26/09


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

ATF said:


> The Vertebreaker is/was fucking INSANE. Even insaner than the Vadersault. Lord bless Helms for pulling that thing off safely.


Probably my most favorite finisher ever. It's just so sick and I would always use it as my created wrestler finisher in the WWE games.  Homicide pulled it off well in TNA too. 

The RKO has always been one of my favorite finishers in the WWE. Like Orton or not, he has a great finisher:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Top 10 Finishes?

1. Crippler Crossface by Benoit
2. Sharpshooter by Bret
3. Knee Trembler by Regal
4. Diamond Cutter/RKO
5. Stunner by Stone Cold
6. F5 by Lesnar
7. Tombstone by Taker
8. Original Liontamer by Jericho
9. Frog Splash by Eddie
10. Ankle Lock by Angle


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Knee Trembler is pure garbage.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Replace Knee Trembler with Sweet Chin Music and Frog Splash with something more devastating (Last Ride?) and you got a pretty good list there.

The RKO is :mark: and one of the reasons I became a massive fan of the guy. My favorite way Orton has pulled it off is when he counters somebody from the Powerbomb/Pedigree position by spinning out and then with one hand from a distance hitting the move. The final RKO on HHH at Survivor Series 2004 is what I'm looking at. That Chokeslam into RKO and any time he's hit the move with a lot of air-time have been great too.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

You heathens not selecting the Pedigree :kobe6

I actually do really love the RKO, but I don't always mark for the RKOs that counter other moves. Sometimes it works, but not always for me. Sweet Chin Music is great, and I like Rollins' Black Out, and the Fameasser. Finishers don't always do it for me though. I can think of at least 10 other wrestling moves that I like more than people's finishers.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> For ROH fans what are your top 5 (more if you want) ROH PPVs?


Man Up as mentioned
Unified
Death Before Dishonor VIII

Those are all that I remember really but the truth is you can get any DVD from 04-07 and it'll be worth it.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Death Before Dishonor VIII :mark: :mark:

Has a great opener in Steen/Generico, an all out war between the Kings of Wrestling and the Briscoes and an amazing main event between Tyler Black and Davey Richards.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The Knee Trembler is pure garbage.



You're pure garbage :side:



Choke2Death said:


> Replace Knee Trembler with Sweet Chin Music and Frog Splash with something more devastating (Last Ride?) and you got a pretty good list there.
> 
> The RKO is :mark: and one of the reasons I became a massive fan of the guy. My favorite way Orton has pulled it off is when he counters somebody from the Powerbomb/Pedigree position by spinning out and then with one hand from a distance hitting the move. The final RKO on HHH at Survivor Series 2004 is what I'm looking at. That Chokeslam into RKO and any time he's hit the move with a lot of air-time have been great too.


Knee Trembler>>>>>SCM. I actually like Shawn's super kick, but to me Regal running full steam into a bent over opponent and just ramming his knee into his head is fucking AWESOME. I like it when a dude has a finisher that a) fits his character perfectly and b) looks like it could actually end someone. Regal's Knee Trembler passes on both fronts.

Eddie's frog splash is just a sentimental pick. I know it's not devastating, and I know top rope finishes are passé. But it just fit Eddie so well and it always made me smile to see Eddie hit his three amigos then go for the frog splash. It's a totally biased pick but there you go.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

In Your House VII



*The British Bulldog and Owen Hart w/Jim Cornette vs. Jake “The Snake” Roberts and Ahmed Johnson*

They got some things right here and did other things terribly. I loved the start of the match where we saw that Bulldog wanted no part of Jake’s snake and he wanted no part of Ahmed Johnson. Which meant that Owen was reluctantly forced to work most of the early parts of the match and watching him flop around for Ahmed was really fun. Roberts did well here as he worked most of the match. The fans were behind him and I liked how he would consistently go for the DDT. Ahmed was a good hot tag, he might not be great in the ring but his power moves worked in this capacity. What really bothered me about the match is that Johnson would just tag out of the match at stupid times. Like he would kick ass for a minute and then tag out right away. Even after Roberts was isolated for a long time and made the hot tag Johnson’s tagged out right away. I don’t like complaining that Roberts worked more than Johnson but I kind of half to here because it just seemed like they weren’t working smart. The match overall was still fun to watch and I was entertained throughout. 
***½ *


_Intercontinental Championship Match_
*Goldust(c) w/Marlena and a Bodyguard vs. The Ultimate Warrior*

Before I start I want to ask you what it is that you want to get out of a wrestling a match? If your answer is that you want to see the Ultimate Warrior sit in a directors chair and smoke a cigar for 5 minutes while the crowd chants “******!” at Goldust than this is the match for you. If there’s anything else that you want to see in a wrestling match than this is probably not something you should see. I know which group I fall into but maybe you would fall into a different category.
*DUD*



*Vader w/Jim Cornette vs. Razor Ramon*

Vader is pretty amazing. He’s someone that when they take control of the match you can buy that he is just going to easily beat the shit out of his opponent and squash them. Knowing that Hall was leaving soon I was actually thinking that Vader was just going to dominate the entire match and win. He was just that dominant to start the match. But Hall did get offense in and when he started throwing punches and Vader was selling those punches the crowd and I realized that we were going to see a fight. Both guys sold for each other and made each other look good and it really helped. Hall’s offense was just so impressive and there were a lot of things that I saw that I never would have expected. I would have preferred the pacing to be a little quicker and maybe take a few minutes off the match but that’s really my only complaint in the match. Hall did a great job making Vader look like a monster on his way out. 
****½ *


_WWF Tag Team Championship Match:_
*The Body Donnas(c) w/Sunny vs. The Godwins w/Hillbilly Jim*

This might actually be the first WWF feud that I remember. I would have been 5 years old and I remember the interactions between Sunny and Phineas pretty well. Despite the childhood memories this still wasn’t very good. The Body Donnas are heels but they don’t really control the match very much and just get beat up the whole time. Phineas had this gimmick where he was supposed to lose control and be unstoppable. When he actually did this in the match though it just looked absurd. There were a few decent double team moves and Sunny was fun to look at but other than that this wasn’t very impressive at all.
***



_No Hold Barred for the WWF Championship:_
*Shawn Michaels(c) vs. Big Daddy Cool Diesel *

This really makes me wish that Nash had spent more time as a heel in the WWF. I feel like his title run could have been so much better had he turned during his reign and not after it. He was just in “no fucks given” mode and it came across perfectly. He would attack the ref, when he went to get a chair he would throw someone out of it before they even had the chance to move, and then there is the Mad Dog fake leg incident. He was badass that beat the shit out of Shawn and didn’t give a shit about anything. It was just great to watch. Shawn as a face meshed so well with what Nash was doing. Shawn just flew around the ring as he got his ass kicked. 

Honestly, on the surface, this is a lot like a Cena or Hogan match where the monster heel beats up the face before the big comeback. However it’s done so much better than most matches that are worked like this because Nash had the perfect attitude and everything just looked so good. I loved the Jack Knife through the table as nobody really it coming and the image of the monitors flying into the air was great. For the time period it was a war and it holds up well. I just wish I could hear what Shawn was saying after the match. He was fired up and was doing a Hogan pose, than a Razor Ramon one, and I know I saw him mouth “Where the big boys play” his attitude after the win was hilarious as he basically told Nash to get out of his ring and proceeded to start talking shit. It was a really fun way to cap off a match that I loved.
******​

I would say this is a good show. The Klique delivered and it’s worth watching because this was the end of something. It was kind of cool seeing Hall and Nash on their way out to go and make wrestling history. They both went out with good matches where they made their opponents look good. It’s just a shame that Goldust/Warrior is on this card, which seriously might be the worst match ever.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Knee Trembler wouldn't be acclaimed if it wasn't William Regal that did it. And I'm not saying that he performed it well, because he really didn't do that either. I expect a finisher to be conclusive, but a simple knee to the head like that isn't conclusive. It looks very sloppy too, but I can excuse that because Regal doesn't try to be pretty. But it certainly doesn't have the aesthetics of a finisher. It also doesn't help that unlike the BKK where a wrestler runs/jumps into another wrestler's face with his knee, Regal just trots into his opponent's face, oftentimes with the opponent crouching down for an unnaturally extended period of time. I don't see how it's any better than a basic Alberto Del Rio kick. Oftentimes it doesn't even look impactful and you could clearly see Regal just missing completely and slapping his thigh. And to make matters worse, Regal already has at least three other moves that are better finishers (Regal Stretch, Regal Cutter, Regalplex).


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> Death Before Dishonor VIII :mark: :mark:
> 
> Has a great opener in Steen/Generico, an all out war between the Kings of Wrestling and the Briscoes and an amazing main event between Tyler Black and Davey Richards.


I was lucky that when I decided to watch my first ROH show, this was the one. So I have a supersoft spot for that Steen/Generico match which is obviously freaking awesome. That KOW/Briscoes bloodbath is amazing. Richards/Black ****3/4 and has held up on 3 rewatches.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

bigbuxxx said:


> I was lucky that when I decided to watch my first ROH show, this was the one. So I have a supersoft spot for that Steen/Generico match which is obviously freaking awesome. That KOW/Briscoes bloodbath is amazing. Richards/Black ****3/4 and has held up on 3 rewatches.


Also, Omega/Daniels. Jesus, what an awesome show that was.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Favourite finisher is the lariat. No elaborate set up, no unauthentic nonsense, no fancy bullshit - it's purely a big ass arm bulldozing a man to knock him out. And it be used practically anywhere.



Spoiler: GOOSEBUMPS















I'm not big on the knee trembler, either. I sure as hell don;t agree with ''a knee to the head isn't conclusive'', because a knee to the head is fucking awesome and better most finishers, but the knee trembler itself looks like it's impossible to sell all that well. And any move where your opponent has to be bent over like that (e.g. scissors kick) gets points deducted.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

That seven star match from Yeah's gif! :mark:


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

As I mentioned in the puro thread I was going through Kobashi's 1993. When I got to that move, I watched it over and over again. Match is almost untouchable.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I like Kawada's use of the lariat to. In the 4/20/91 6-man in the finish he just happened to be in the ring (not legal guy) and crushed Taue in the back of the head with it.





Go to 51:30.

They also used this as a false finish in the next 6-man.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Watch Breaking Point Regal vs Christian and tell me that the Knee Trembler isn't a definitive way to end a guy. I respect y'alls opinion but to me, kneeing someone right in the fucking skull is about as definitive as it gets. Maybe I haven't seen the matches you are talking about, but I've seen over 100 Regal matches, and I'd say 90% of the time he does the knee trembler it looks devastating.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

GOAT thread:



scrapethattoast said:


> you guys are not gonna believe this but yesterday triple h actually came to my house. i was just sitting there eating my dinner and then i heard the door bell ring, i went to answer and it was triple h just standing there. i said hi but he didn't answer.. i invited him in and he just stared at me for a while, and then when my back was turned he attacked me. i tried to fight back but it was no use, eventually he pedigreed me through a table and just left. i really want to sue him but I'm afraid he will come back. has this happened to anyone else?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Now THIS is a conclusive knee. The follow through on this is something that Regal's Knee Trembler is missing. It's probably because Regal doesn't have the flexibility to stand and deliver a knee so high, but again. Nothing I said is a slight to Regal. I just think that if there is a finisher to cite as a top ten one from him, it has to be the other three. Compare it to this where the follow through is not as impressive:






And then compare it to this:






And finally, this knee:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I like finishers that either you can do to anyone or looks devastating. My top 10 FAVORITE finishers. Favorite....so if you don't like them you can fuck off with no lube. :dance

10. Jackhammer 
9. Rude Awakening 
8. Powerbomb
7. Walls of Jericho
6. Tombstone
5. Five Star Frog Splash 
4. Stunner 
3. Figure Four
2. Rock Bottom
1. Sharp Shooter/Scorpion Death Lock 




RAINNMAKAHH said:


> Tyler Black


What is he doing now? #YourAvatarJoke



TaylorFitz said:


> In Your House VII
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was at this show. Good times. Good dark matches too.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

rewatched Umaga/Cena LMS, It went way up, had it at ***1/4 and it went all the way up to ****1/4, fun stuff


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Favorite finishers huh? Here's some random ones I've always loved (in no order):

RKO
Sweet Chin Music
5-Star Frog Splash (seriously, it ALWAYS looks so damn pretty)
Figure-4 Leg Lock (the all time classic)

That's all I can think of right now. 


Hayley Seydoux said:


> Not better than the opener, what?


Yes sir. I actually liked the opener a good bit. It was fun enough while all 3 were involved but the singles between Cesaro & RVD was good stuff. I'm such a sucker for Rob though. He can do the same moves all the time and I'll still like it because they look so good. Plus his overselling is the bee's knees. Finish looked great too.



MachoMadness1988 said:


> For ROH fans what are your top 5 (more if you want) ROH PPVs?


Since you said PPVs, I'm gonna restrict to shows that I know for fact were broadcast on PPV or iPPV:

MAN UP (one of my all time favorites. That main event and the postmatch scene give me goosebumps)
The Big Bang (a fantastic double main event, great opener, and a breezy undercard)
Final Battle 2010 (love this thing from top to bottom)
Death Before Dishonor VIII (previously mentioned exceptional card)
Best in the World 2011 (yes I'm being serious here. The only thing I'm 50/50 on is that long ass tag title match)

Can't go wrong with the first ever PPV Respect Is Earned and the two Honor Takes Center Stage shows either. There may be more but this is all I'm coming up with for ppv stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've always loved RVD too, but that match was just kind of...I dunno, crummy. It was only there so Cesaro can get a win, yet it was hardly used as a showcase match. Pretty awful on that front. Did like the finish though. We're copacetic there.

oh shit I missed a discussion on the KUDO DRIVER? Dammit all.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Why were you watch a wrestling match between two transexuals? I bet it was in that damn DDT federation.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yes sir. I actually liked the opener a good bit. It was fun enough while all 3 were involved but the singles between Cesaro & RVD was good stuff. I'm such a sucker for Rob though. He can do the same moves all the time and I'll still like it because *they look so good*. Plus his overselling is the bee's knees. Finish looked great too.


Nah.

I'm gonna watch that match now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Let them RVD haters hate! Watch that AJ/Natalya match from Main Event too. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Why were you watch a wrestling match between two transexuals? I bet it was in that damn DDT federation.


Dragon Gate.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Watch that AJ/Natalya match from Main Event too. (Y)


Don't make the man claw his eyes out.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Oh goodness. Is there any women's match you'd actually put over this year? Because Paige/Emma and AJ/Natalya were both quite literally the best ones I've seen in years.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cesaro/Swagger/Van Dam actually wasn't bad. It wasn't good either but I enjoyed it for what it was. The trash can stuff was crap. Up until that point most of it was fun except for the three way strike exchange at the start (that was WOAT) and a contrived spot or two. Decent opener. I'm still really disappointed that RVD got interjected into this. A proper Real Americans break up and blow off match would've been a million times better.

Paige/Emma was good. I'll give AJ/Natalya a watch if I can find it on dailymotion. Also need to re-watch Bryan/Kane at some point. Only seen it once. I liked most of it and thought it was good on the whole. I didn't hate the backstage stuff or any of the over the top props but that portion of the match took me out of it a bit even though I didn't necessarily dislike what they were doing. Some of the execution was bad though. Kane had some shitty bumps. I want to say off the hurricanrana and DDT counter but I'm not 100% sure. Probably save that re-watch for just before Payback.

EDIT: Nothing wrong with AJ/Natalya. Definitely good by WWE divas standards.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Oh goodness. Is there any women's match you'd actually put over this year? Because Paige/Emma and AJ/Natalya were both quite literally the best ones I've seen in years.




+ Paige vs Fox x2. Paige/Emma vs Sasha/Charlotte was a decent tag & Sasha vs Bayley 5/1 was a solid sprint too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Only thought Paige/Emma and Sasha/Bayley were "good" this year. I did enjoy the WM 30 clusterfuck and the Paige/Alicia stuff but didn't thought it was good, but sure as hell wasn't terrible either for what it was. Haven't seen AJ/Natalya yet, but I did like their TLC match. But to my taste, to hell with all of that, I want more *Alexa*. Natalya/Alexa _(and Kidd/Zayn/Breeze too)_ next week, hope it delievers. *#NXTRULES*

I think I'm going on a video making rampage for top 20 matches of every year... since '00 :lol


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

After watching two one hour draw matches today (Kobashi vs Kawada and Kobashi/Misawa vs Kawada/Taue from 5 days later) can anybody recommend a fun spotfest?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Sin Cara vs Evan Bourne from Raw Roulette '11 (same Raw w/Punk's worked shoot).


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Just started a match before you posted but will get to that one in a few minutes.

Juventud vs Rey vs Kidman vs Psychoses @ Souled Out 1999: Sweet match but a bit disjointed at times and commentary was WOAT. ***1/2.

WCW in a nutshell during the intros to the match:
"Kidman and Rey won a coinflip to start the match"
*Psychosis comes out second instead of Rey*
"Maybe Rey didn't win the coinflip"
"Maybe Rey did but he's going to come out last"
*"The coinflip doesn't really matter anyways. It's going to be a great match"*

Way to bury everything.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> After watching two one hour draw matches today (Kobashi vs Kawada and Kobashi/Misawa vs Kawada/Taue from 5 days later) can anybody recommend a fun spotfest?


Nothing in the form of a "spotfest" in the slightest _(what does that term actually imply?)_ but it's a world of fun:



and one that's really nutty:


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Spotfest to me is an all out brawl with some fun spots or matches like the 6-man 5* match from ROH or Rey/Eddie from HH. Watching that DG match now

edit: I should have said fast paced with not so much selling match instead of "spotfest".


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

By that criteria you should watch the Mysterio/Riley vs Swagger/Miz tornado tag from RAW in 2011 too. Legit awesome stuff. Fast, fun, etc.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Punk vs Miz vs Morrison is really fun as is Carlito vs Shelton vs Morrison.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Uhaa is so great. I've only seen one other match of his but he's definitely fun to watch. Thanks and ty for the latest rec..


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

I was lukewarm on him, verging on apathy w/some of his US work. I dunno, he just lacked that bit of pop in some of the matches I saw here. Maybe b/c it's a bit dime a dozen to have some guys try to do what he does. Or his meshing w/opponents wasn't too good. But he excels in Japan. Has a great connection w/the crowd and seeing him do the things he can do is insane. Actually love that he's part of the speedy, nutty promotion like Dragon Gate. His size can add a nice wrinkle to the matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Has anyone recently watched Raw's from the 00/01 period? Thinking about getting a TV season but not sure which one first.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ki and Red had 4 or 5 good matches. Best one is AWESOME.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Just watched Bryan/Wyatt and Bryan/HHH for the third time each. :mark: They both got even better this time around. Tremendous stuff. The fact that neither of them are in my top 3 matches this year speaks volumes about the quality we've been getting. Evolution/Shield up next.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Please tell me you have Bryan/Wyatt over the latter. PLEASE.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> rewatched Umaga/Cena LMS, It went way up, had it at ***1/4 and it went all the way up to ****1/4, fun stuff


*****3/4*. GOAT LMS imo. Speaking of which, watched Jericho/Trips LMS yesterday. *****1/2*. Both matches are :mark:.

Favourite finishers...probably in a decent enough order from top to bottom:

RKO
F5
Sweet Chin Musak
Figure 4
SPEAR (when performed in a badass manner only)
Pedigree
People's Elbow DEAL WITH IT
Shooting Star Press
Crossface
Stunner

*Bryan/Wyatt - ****1/4
Bryan/HHH - ****1/2
Evo/Shield - ****1/2*

Solid.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bryan/Wyatt - ****1/4
Bryan/HHH - ****
Evo/Shield - ***1/2

BOOM.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Please tell me you have Bryan/Wyatt over the latter. PLEASE.


Was it you who said you don't get how people have Bryan/H over Bryan/Wyatt the other day? If so you're the reason I just re-watched both matches. They're so even in terms of quality. I thought another viewing might see the Wyatt match come out on top but it didn't. Still think they're at basically the same level and I give a slight edge to Danielson/Trips. You really can't go wrong with either one.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Bryan/Wyatt - ****1/4
> Bryan/HHH - ****
> Evo/Shield - ***1/2
> 
> BOOM.


****1/4 for all three. #ifiusedstars


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Starbuck said:


> GOAT LMS


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Chismo said:


>


:cena5

Umaga though.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Thoughts on Orton/Trips LMS NM?


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Styles/Daniels>> any WWE LMS.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Thoughts on Orton/Trips LMS NM?


Great. Hunter's best babyface performance and a top 10 match for both guys.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pfft, screw all those other LMS matches. Everyone watch this:

The Undertaker Vs The Big Show - Last Man Standing - Cyber Sunday 2008

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kLgYDzON7hELq14QzOS


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena/Umaga, Trips/Jericho, Trips/Orton, Trips/Flair >>>>>>>> Taker/Show. Silly Cal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Two of those LMS matches you mentioned are barely good .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Now that I think about it HHH/Orton might not be top 10 for Trips. Then again it might be. There's a few matches I'd have to watch again to be sure. Definitely top 10 for Orton though.

Taker/Show LMS rules. Don't think it's as good as Orton/H but it isn't far behind. Two legitimately great matches.

Trying to put together my LMS top 5 but I have 6 in my head and I wouldn't feel right leaving out any of them. HHH/Jericho, Cena/Umaga, HHH/Flair, HHH/Orton, Cena/Batista and Taker/Show. There's probably another really fucking good one that I'm blanking on right now.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I loved HHH/Orton LMS match. I can only really recall that, Jericho/HHH, and ugh...Cena/Batista which gets WOAT finish to a match. I couldn't believe what a cheesy ending it was while watching live. 

edit: i watched Cena/Umaga earlier this year. It was pretty good. Nothing memorable...as can be seen since I didn't remember to write it 

edit 2: to keep with the spotfest theme, I'm going with Shield vs Hell No/Ryback since TLC 2012 was just on the Network


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Two of those LMS matches you mentioned are barely good .


Like I said already, silly Cal. 



Saint Dick said:


> Now that I think about it HHH/Orton might not be top 10 for Trips. Then again it might be. There's a few matches I'd have to watch again to be sure. Definitely top 10 for Orton though.
> 
> Taker/Show LMS rules. Don't think it's as good as Orton/H but it isn't far behind. Two legitimately great matches.
> 
> Trying to put together my LMS top 5 but I have 6 in my head and I wouldn't feel right leaving out any of them. HHH/Jericho, Cena/Umaga, HHH/Flair, HHH/Orton, Cena/Batista and Taker/Show. *There's probably another really fucking good one that I'm blanking on right now.*


Trips/Shawn

:ti

Cena/Batista

DAT :duck tape


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Flair/HHH isn't just "barely good" actually. It's fucking shit. Makes Cena/Umaga looks genuinely good when comparing them.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Starbuck your sig :mark:



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Flair/HHH isn't just "barely good" actually. It's fucking shit. Makes Cena/Umaga looks genuinely good when comparing them.


Says the guy who thinks Taker/Lesnar is a good match. :duck


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena/Umaga IS good, better than good actually. And you're shit, so there. 8*D.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

A couple other good ones - Edge/Benoit, Taker/Batista, Taker/Khali, Rock/Mankind, Kane/Shane & Edge/Cena (don't care, I liked it).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cena/Umaga is decent at best. HBK/HHH is awful. HHH/Flair is awful. Edge/Cena is awful. Kane/Shane is awful. JBL/Angle is awful. HHH/Orton II is awful (might have been good if glass shoulder Orton had survived). Kane/Jericho is awful. Man we've had some shitty LMS matches, and I probably ain't even remembering them all. If they happened in the last couple of years I've probably not even sat through them.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips/Orton had a good LMS on the commercial free Raw in 09 too actually. Not as good as NM but still worth watching. 

Can't believe this hate for Cena/Umaga. Just shut up.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Wonder if we're gonna get a LMS match at Payback. Seems possible for Bryan/Kane or Cena/Wyatt. Has Bryan ever been in one in the WWE? I don't think he has.

Anybody else want Jericho to come back?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Between claiming Cena/Umaga and HHH/Flair LMS are decent/shitty, and Taker/Austin BL and Taker/Lesnar WM are great is to say somebody needs to put Cal in a fucking asylum. 

Everybody's forgetting Show/ADR, Kane/Edge and HBK/Jericho for good LMS matches tho. Oh and, regarding Jericho, 50/50 on it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Show/ADR both sucked as did Kane/Edge. HBK/Jericho I barely remember. Was it from the UK show?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Show LMS >> All LMS except Cena/Umaga, and Jericho/HHH


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> Wonder if we're gonna get a LMS match at Payback. Seems possible for Bryan/Kane or Cena/Wyatt. Has Bryan ever been in one in the WWE? I don't think he has.
> 
> Anybody else want Jericho to come back?


For what it's worth, they're advertising Kane/Bryan in a LMS match on the house show circuit for the upcoming UK tour next week so they might be trying it out for Payback. It seems fitting since Kane is always sitting up and won't...stay down :side:.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I like Kane/Shane, Shane's ambition to take down the monster as proven by the surprise attack and no hesitation assault. Kane did a great job of representing Shane's fighting skills or lack of through no selling his strikes, that would usually bring down the quality of a match but made sense here.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Show/ADR both sucked as did Kane/Edge. HBK/Jericho I barely remember. Was it from the UK show?


Yeah, it was from the UK show. I can see w/someone would dislike Kane/Edge sure. And I totally agree that the second ADR/Show sucked. But the first one on Smackdown? Dude, you're OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND, you know that? That match had one of the strongest babyface performances of last year, and Show was a badass too, really don't see why someone would dislike it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> For what it's worth, they're advertising Kane/Bryan in a LMS match on the house show circuit for the upcoming UK tour next week so they might be trying it out for Payback. It seems fitting since Kane is always sitting up and won't...stay down :side:.


Yeah, LMS makes sense for Bryan/Kane. Can't say I was too excited by the prospect of a Buried Alive match anyway.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> Yeah, LMS makes sense for Bryan/Kane. Can't say I was too excited by the prospect of a Buried Alive match anyway.


Who knows? Maybe they'll still do it for Cena/Bryan so Cena can bury Bray... alive. <_<


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Who knows? Maybe they'll still do it for Cena/Bryan so Cena can bury Bray... alive. <_<


:lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bray's winning at Payback. Right? Right...?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

He lost twice to Cena (ER was NOT a victory, only in technical aspect). And by the way things are looking, he'll lose a third time. Because that's the Cena booking for you.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kane vs Edge last man standing match :lmao holy shit that's horrendous. and yeah, a good number of last man standing matches aren't good. ha, redundant wordplay. most suck. I'm w/Cal on the majority, pardon a few. And def w/Cal on knowing Taker vs Brock was great.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Bray's winning at Payback. Right? Right...?


no chance in hell. he already got his "win" over cena. too bad to. i liked the guy. now he's stuck in low-midcard hell until they kill his gimmick off.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah, I don't expect Wyatt to go over. I'd be so happy if they threw us a curve ball though. The fuckers could've at least given him a somewhat decisive win at Extreme Rules. Then Cole calls that garbage the biggest win of his career.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well...it was. Lets not go thinking the WWE is going to actually say something about their product is stupid on the air now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I want Jericho to come back so Bryan can have a fresh opponent and a fresh feud. Or for Cesaro. Well I want him to come back regardless.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Kane vs Edge last man standing match :lmao holy shit that's horrendous. and yeah, a good number of last man standing matches aren't good. ha, redundant wordplay. most suck. I'm w/Cal on the majority, pardon a few. And def w/Cal on knowing Taker vs Brock was great.


Yeah, all of you people are totally nuts though . Imho Taker/Brock was "good" AT BEST. Storytelling was Brock mauling down Taker and it was good sure, but it being so slow and so sluggish just threw me off. Worst Streak match since Henry is saying short stuff.

If there's one weird thing about this thread - why are so many matches well recieved "out there" bashed on in eternity here? Are opinions and tastes really THAT different? Be it Cena/Edge TLC and LMS, Punk/Jericho PB, Angle/everyone, it's hard to properly understand


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

My sky box deleted my recording of Wrestlemania without me telling it to so I haven't been able to watch anything else from the show. Haven't seen the streak match yet nor the main event. I'm still quite afraid to watch the streak match though. The live experience was....quiet and strange and then more quiet and more strange. Seeing everybody shit on it for the past month and knowing what to expect going in is making me nervous. 

More importantly than that though, Cena/Umaga > Cal's shitty opinion on the matter.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I want Jericho to come back so Bryan can have a fresh opponent and a fresh feud. Or for Cesaro. Well I want him to come back regardless.


Same. Bryan/Jericho would be a sweet title program in the months between one of the big PPVs. Feuds/matches with Cesaro, Bray and Shield would be totally worthwhile too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A Jericho return just to job sounds so blugh. Love 'em, but no thanks. Seen that junk plenty.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> *My sky box deleted my recording of Wrestlemania without me telling it to so I haven't been able to watch anything else from the show. Haven't seen the streak match yet nor the main event. I'm still quite afraid to watch the streak match though. The live experience was....quiet and strange and then more quiet and more strange. Seeing everybody shit on it for the past month and knowing what to expect going in is making me nervous.
> *
> More importantly than that though, Cena/Umaga > Cal's shitty opinion on the matter.


It's shat on for a reason. It was beyond slow, dull, had the worst Tombstone EVER and the outcome, shocker or not, was stupid in the long term.

If I ever gave it a *** rating, it's because:
a) I just cannot give anything less than that to fucking TAKER AND LESNAR if just out of biased respect;
b) it had pretty good storytelling in the mean time;
c) the ending's shock factor elevated the scale quite a bit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Kane vs Edge last man standing match :lmao holy shit that's horrendous. and yeah, a good number of last man standing matches aren't good. ha, redundant wordplay. most suck. I'm w/Cal on the majority, pardon a few. And def w/Cal on knowing Taker vs Brock was great.


This guy!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jericho/Heyman promos and Jericho/Cesaro matches. I want that feud. The fact that RVD/Cesaro is happening now makes me want it even more.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Y'all guys, please just take your time off whatever your doing now to see my own opinion expressed in a video. I made it myself, so please don't skip it for me


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Eh, can't really think of any match I'd absolutely WANT Jericho to come back for. I like him and he's mostly good, but eh, nothing sticks out to me as a "OMG BRING JERICHO BACK SO HE CAN HAVE A CLASSIC WITH THIS GUY".


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Especially when his chances of having a classic aren't really there anymore. He had a good match w/Bray last year on NXT. I know Bray is where he's at now and probably even stronger in the ring w/his gimmick, but it happened once. I liked it. I'm good. Jericho interacted w/the Shield at least once last year too. Cesaro also, etc.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Id still like a heel Jericho vs Bryan.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WWE buried ATF's video. 

It's not like I want Jericho to come back to have classics or improve the product tenfold. I'd enjoy watching him do his thing more than a lot of the current roster and that's enough for me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

THAT TOOK ME FOREVER TO DO. MOTHERFUCKINGFUCKERS.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Bret/Bigelow on the final KOTR tournament match is fantastic, ****1/4. Bret's selling of his prior undertaking is done well, it's unique as well, not your typical Bret affair.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

bigbuxxx said:


> to keep with the spotfest theme, I'm going with Shield vs Hell No/Ryback since TLC 2012 was just on the Network


If I ever had to point to a match as to why I hate WWE's camera work it will be this one. Action camera!!! IT MOVEZ YOU GUYS!!!!! IT ZOOMS!!! IN AND OUT!!!

Awesome match though and that bump Rollins takes...jesus. :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Bret/Bigelow on the final KOTR tournament match is fantastic, ****1/4. Bret's selling of his prior undertaking is done well, it's unique as well, not your typical Bret affair.



Finally. Someone else agrees. I feel like I'm the only one in here that rates that match that high, it's fucking awesome and other than the weak as chair shot by Luna and the restart it's a damn near flawless match. Hitman and Bam Bam definitely delivered a classic that night.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Blasphemy, match deserves such high praise.

















Cal is a senile old man.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HEY! I'm only 26.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

66, where do you think the senile comes in.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Man I just found an AWESOME review site. I have no idea who this guy is but he's already one of my favorites because a.) Eddie is one of his favorites and b.) he writes simply awesome reviews.

Recommend it to everyone, whiskeyandwrestling.blogspot.co.uk

He reviews a lot of 1992 WCW, some of hue great WWE stuff (like from Eddie, Rey, Finlay, and Regal) plus a TON of stuff from Japan, especially from Tenryu. I think he might rival Cals love for Tenryu.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That's Andy aka GOD OF CUNT or whatever name he might go by now.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The fact Andy's blog is still running is completely insane. Like, over four years now? It's not the most updated blog in the world, but, goddamn, the fucker still bothers to write in there. 

I'm 3 million % certain Andy like Cal more than Tenryu. I think Tenryu's his #2 favourite (Eddie being #1).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Andy is so far above me in terms of loving Tenryu.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Yeah out of our little groupings I come above you in TENRYU LOVE as well.

Of course you love Tenryu so much you watched KENTA/Tenryu 3 times and didn't remember you'd watched it before. 

On mention of TLC 2012's camera work, I had a friend who genuinely got motion sickness from that shit, just awful. Great match though, even with that major hindrance.

Also :lmao at Andy's blog getting a linking, should we tell him? Will he remember? Does he care? CRIPPLE?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wait, I've seen a Tenryu/KENTA match? You sure? I'd best watch it to be certain :side:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chris Benoit vs Ric Flair (Raw 02.09.2004)



*By request


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Wait, I've seen a Tenryu/KENTA match? You sure? I'd best watch it to be certain :side:.


Yeah you have, said it wasn't as good as JAPANESE WRESTLER A VS JAPANESE WRESTLER B


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well not many matches ARE as good as that match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

remember when you didn't know keiji mutoh and the great muta were the same person


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Speaking of WWE's camera work, I've been blasting them for years now. First it was changing shots during EVERY impact move, but for the past two years or so, they also shake their fucking cameras like they're pudding-eating epileptic geezers. It legit makes me sick, especially when I watch on laptop or PC. Fuck them.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> remember when you didn't know keiji mutoh and the great muta were the same person


HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW? ONE WORE A MASK, THE OTHER DIDN'T. I'VE NEVER GOOGLED THEM OR READ UP ON THEM OR CARED ABOUT THEM. Only way you could tell there were the same without looking into it was from the fact they both SUCK equally.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Chismo said:


> Speaking of WWE's camera work, I've been blasting them for years now. First it was changing shots during EVERY impact move, but for the past two years or so, they also shake their fucking cameras like they're pudding-eating epileptic geezers. It legit makes me sick, especially when I watch on laptop or PC. Fuck them.


and now while doing the shaking the cameras they alternate camera views with those changing shots during impact move spots. it really is quite ridiculous.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watched a couple Rumbles last night, top 5 anyone? 

1: 1992
2: 2007
3: 2004 
4: 2001
5: 2002


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> The fact Andy's blog is still running is completely insane. Like, over four years now? It's not the most updated blog in the world, but, goddamn, the fucker still bothers to write in there.
> 
> I'm 3 million % certain Andy like Cal more than Tenryu. I think Tenryu's his #2 favourite (Eddie being #1).



That's hilarious, Eddie Guerrero is his favorite wrestler but he manages to spell it "Eddy" every time he lists one of his matches. 

I don't know the guy but he writes pretty damn good reviews, points out all the subtle bits of selling you might not see the first time you watch a match and manages to both ramble and still be totally coherent in describing action.

Don't worry Yeah, you describing a Hero vs Rotten match as "two greasy shit stains just tying up" still gets the nod as the single greatest match description I've ever read :lmao

Apparently I'm watching your favorite match ever right now, Choshu vs Fujiwara. I asked FF for some recs and he sent me that along with a few others.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Even better when you realise the guy is hammered when writing 90% of those reviews 8*D.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I haven't seen Choshu/Fujiwara in a looong time. I'd consider it for one of my ten favourite matches, and a desert island ten (they would probably be different lists, right?.....guess they might not be). IIRC I wrote big fucking pile of words on it a while ago, probably too much for a 12 minute match. 

"Eddy" is a bit of a consistency thing. Like, Eddie was "Eddy" earlier in his career and that's the earliest time from him so for some odd consistency, Andy and sometimes I and others before I did it would write "Eddy" all the time. It's like "Misterio"; it came first and unless there's a direct gimmick change (like, we aren't going to call Kane "Unabomb"), there's some feeling of consistency. If I were making a list of greatest matches ever, and I had, say two Misterio matches and four Mysterio matches, I would probably just put Rey's name as Rey Misterio Jr in all of them. 

Plus, "Eddy" looks cooler. "Eddy Guerrero". Bad ass.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I always write "Psicosis" so I guess I can dig that. As long as it's intentional then that makes sense, although I really don't ever remember Eddie's name being spelled "Eddy". It must have been when he was in Mexico right? Because even as early as 1994 in ECW he was going by "Eddie". He was also "Eddie" in that famous Gringos Locos vs Octagon and El Hijo del Santo match if I'm not mistaken. Actually just thinking about it now he definitely would have been "Eddy" in Mexico because "ie" doesn't sound like "y" in Spanish.

I can see why you love Choshu vs Fujiwara so much. This is pretty much exactly what a big fight between two veteran heavyweights should be. Fujiwara is ULTRA nasty throughout, delivering those vicious head butts and other strikes. Love how they build to him finally locking in that arm bar with his namesake towards the end. You really get a sense of hopelessness on the part of Choshu. I'm not gonna lie this isn't one of my favorite matches ever but it's certainly great. The brutality from Fujiwara is really something to behold.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Was spelled Eddy in WCW and ECW.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Andy is my favorite reviewer of all time. Similar to Yeah1993 in the way that their write ups are intelligent (93 is probably going to dispute this), opinionated and fun at the same time. The perfect mix of critical analysis and entertaining rambling I like in a review. I wish that fucker still posted in here and talked about modern wrestling, although I doubt he watches any of it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Unfortunately Andy barely watches anything new, at least in the states. Drunken cunt.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

CHOSHU

That is all. Watch his match with Vader. It's short. It's a brawl. It's a masterpiece.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rewatched Sheamus/Ambrose and, well, went a little down to ***1/4, but still very good, hard hitting. Give these two 20 minutes on PPV w/face and heel roles totally defined and you got greatness.

In the meantime, Shield/Wyatts Main Event got a rewatch too, and that actually went UP to ****1/4. The strenght of Ambrose's performance alone would put it on a class of its own, + the viciousness of the Wyatts' control segments + Rollins' hot tag + Shield finally getting that rubber win = beautiful madness.

And speaking of beautiful madness (and Ambrose), I watched for the very first one of my dream matches of the current roster now: *Shield/Real Americans from Raw 3/24*. I thought that Real Americans/Rhodes Bros would be hard to beat as the best 2-on-2 Tag of the year, but a mere week later, replace Rhodes with Shield and a hotter crowd, and you had just that. Ambrose had his second best babyface performance yet imo (vs Wyatts Main Event is still #1), Swagger and Cesaro were just about priceless in control, and Rollins was Rollins in the instances he was there. Crowd was going batshit crazy by the end, and the post-match w/Reigns SMASHING and Cesaro falling victim to the Shield helped. Only bad thing to say is Rollins' selling of the Patriot Lock was rather iffy, but that was secondary anyway. If it went a little longer, I would've gladly given it ***3/4, but as it stands, a very high ****1/2*.

Current MOTY list (***1/2 onwards):


> (****3/4)
> Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn, NXT Arrival
> (****1/2)
> The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Elimination Chamber
> ...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Could anyone upload The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Main Event 4/8?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You can watch it here.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

It's been a good while since I have watched any but, best Hart Foundation matches?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

ATF said:


> Rewatched Sheamus/Ambrose and, well, went a little down to ***1/4, but still very good, hard hitting. Give these two 20 minutes on PPV w/face and heel roles totally defined and you got greatness.


Had it at that rating on first watch. Just a real good stuff in the 10 or so minutes they were given on Smackdown. The two styles clash well imo, plus Ambrose is really shining as a babyface and a sympathetic figure. 

Turn Sheamus heel completely, rather than doing a face vs. face battle and put these two guys on pay-per-view and I think they're easily capable of putting on a ****** match if given 15-20 minutes.

I'm fucking loving Ambrose's work as a babyface so so much. He plays face in peril perfectly. He gets sympathy from the viewers while continuing to look and act like a maniac.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

If Sheamus was a heel, the Ambrose match would have been much better, but it was still a great TV match. _**** 1/2*_


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> It's been a good while since I have watched any but, best Hart Foundation matches?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


First ones that come to mind are:

Vs Killer Bees MSG 1985
Vs Bulldogs MSG 1986
Vs Demolition Summerslam 1990
Vs Rockers Main Event (the one with the Rockers wearing fluorescent yellow)
Vs Nasty Boys WM 7

To be honest, there just aren't a ton of great Hart Foundation matches to be found on video. People call them overrated all the time but I don't know how accurate that is, because most of their greatness was at house shows and such during the 1980s. But if you listen to the commentators and look at history, they must have been pretty awesome because both Jesse and Gorilla would just gush over how good they were on the few matches you will find on tape. Along with the fact that Vince thought highly enough of Bret after watching his tags that he decided to push him as a main event star.

I've heard they also had a fabulous match with Tully and Arn I've just never actually seen it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> First ones that come to mind are:
> 
> Vs Killer Bees MSG 1985
> Vs Bulldogs MSG 1986
> ...


Thanks mate. The Summerslam match with the Brainbusters is usually rated pretty good, if that's the one you are eluding to.

Just been in a Bret tag mood recently, so I'll have to check out some tags with Owen and Smith too.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I like the HF but I couldn't point to many matches that I'd consider "great" just "really good" at best. But they have a BUNCH of matches like that. They're just missing a classic unfortunately. Shame their chemistry with the Rockers (basically just Bret and HBK sucking together lol) was terrible, because THE ROCKERS were able to get great matches out of just about anyone, and have a handful of classics too.

Not fond of that SS match with HF/BB. Too much HIP rather than FIP.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I like the HF but I couldn't point to many matches that I'd consider "great" just "really good" at best. But they have a BUNCH of matches like that. They're just missing a classic unfortunately. Shame their chemistry with the Rockers (basically just Bret and HBK sucking together lol) was terrible, because THE ROCKERS were able to get great matches out of just about anyone, and have a handful of classics too.
> 
> Not fond of that SS match with HF/BB. Too much HIP rather than FIP.



I dig that Main Event (I think it was Main Event, might have been something else though) match between the HF and the Rockers. It's not the 2/3 Falls shit fest that was never aired, it's the one with Marty and Shawn wearing fluorescent yellow. Its a pretty bad ass little match if I'm remembering correctly. Nothing I would term a "classic" by any means but nowhere near bad.

Best HF match I've seen is probably the Killer Bees or Bulldogs match at MSG. The Killer Bees match in particular I think very highly of, lots of fire and a great FIP segment.

The sleeper HF match is the one they had with the Nasties at WM 7. Rarely gets brought up but is a a very good piece of work.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

There was this guy on my IG feed saying the Iron Man match at WrestleMania was a ****** *Match. 














:maury:haha:ti:duck:HA​


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Their WM 7 match with Nasty Boys is one of my favs from them.

Seen a bunch of HF/Rockers tags and I legit hate every single one of them. Cannot stand HBK and Bret in the ring together, even for tag matches lol. They just CANNOT have decent matches!!!


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Armageddon 2006's ME tag match is so bad, fortunately, NWO 2007 ME happened and redeemed somewhat.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> There was this guy on my IG feed saying the Iron Man match at WrestleMania was a ****** *Match.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Go to classic wrestling and you'll see a bunch of people say that and then call you a hater or a mark or other derogatory name because you have a different opinion.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:side: I love every single HF/Rockers tag. And I like Chavo Guerrero and Booker T. And I think Person of Interest is a garbage show. But don't tell Cal any of this.

How are the other match recommendations treating you, cjack? Glad to see that you liked Fujiwara/Choshu. I'm probably the biggest fan here of the Badstreet Freebirds/Von Erichs match. Nobody ever gushes over WCCW, even though they had some good stuff. Not on the level of Memphis or JCP or even 2012 WWE, but great matches based on an iconic feud. Killer Khan vs. Terry Gordy. Killer Khan.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

bigbuxxx said:


> Go to classic wrestling and you'll see a bunch of people say that and then call you a hater or a mark or other derogatory name because you have a different opinion.


I've seen people call it the greatest match of all time in here. :lol (not in this thread but the forum)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It's been called the GOAT match in here plenty of times over the years.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I've seen people call it the greatest match of all time in here. :lol (not in this thread but the forum)


:|

I'm losing faith in humanity.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :side: I love every single HF/Rockers tag. And I like Chavo Guerrero and Booker T. And I think Person of Interest is a garbage show. But don't tell Cal any of this.
> 
> How are the other match recommendations treating you, cjack? Glad to see that you liked Fujiwara/Choshu. I'm probably the biggest fan here of the Badstreet Freebirds/Von Erichs match. Nobody ever gushes over WCCW, even though they had some good stuff. Not on the level of Memphis or JCP or even 2012 WWE, but great matches based on an iconic feud. Killer Khan vs. Terry Gordy. Killer Khan.


Saving the Freebirds/Von Erich match for tomorrow.

Loved Andre/Killer Khan, and REALLY liked Aries/Bully Ray. Bully was just fantastic as the unbearable asshole. The TWITTA. That fucking backwards fall Aries takes off the top rope to the barricade was so ridiculous. Could have broken his neck and or back. I've got the 2 more Aries matches you sent plus the Badstreet match, I'll check them out tomorrow as my WIZARDS are about to come on :mark: :mark:

Also- you can ignore my second message. I just decided to say fuck it and ordered the Punk vs Joe set containing all of their classics plus the interviews from both guys afterwards talking about the feud from the ROH website. It was just too embarrassing to keep going on in life without having seen the classic Punk vs Joe series from 2004. I've watched a good bit of Punk lately, and while I'd never call him the GOAT or anything like you do (understandable cause he's your hometown boy) I have gained a greater appreciation for him as a whole as a wrestler. Up until now I'd never call myself a fan of his, though I do enjoy a lot of his matches, but more and more I find myself coming around and becoming an actual fan of his work.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Punk/Joe II gets the hype but Punk/Joe III is where it's at. They save the best for last.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

If you want some more Killer Khan matches, check out the one he had against Terry Gordy with Kerry Von Erich as referee. Dude was the original Meng. And you gotta watch Andre/Hansen matches too, but in sure you've done that before. Of course, continue with the Austin Aries. Great wrestler that can play any role well.

:lol I was gonna send you links to the Punk/Joe series, but looks like you made a great investment. Those two were made for each other. Their third match is one of the best babyface performances I've seen, and Joe technically wasn't a true heel at the time.

Until Bryan retires, my actual choice for GOAT is Kawada. Not Punk. Most of this Punk stuff is an act.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> It's been called the GOAT match in here plenty of times over the years.


But it looks like more people are jumping off the bandwagon. Last time a thread was made on it, half the posts called it boring.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I hope to god the Wizards don't fall apart like they did last game...



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Bret/Bigelow on the final KOTR tournament match is fantastic, ****1/4. Bret's selling of his prior undertaking is done well, it's unique as well, not your typical Bret affair.


I haven't agreed with much you've been saying lately, but YES to this on so many levels. Total underrated classic.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Finally. Someone else agrees. I feel like I'm the only one in here that rates that match that high, it's fucking awesome and other than the weak as chair shot by Luna and the restart it's a damn near flawless match. Hitman and Bam Bam definitely delivered a classic that night.


LIES. I liked it just as much before you did.  Us three have it at **** 1/4 and TaylorFitz has it at *** 3/4 I believe. It's a gem amongst all gems.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lol I was gonna send you links to the Punk/Joe series, but looks like you made a great investment. Those two were made for each other. Their third match is one of the best babyface performances I've seen, and Joe technically wasn't a true heel at the time.
> 
> Until Bryan retires, my actual choice for GOAT is Kawada. Not Punk. Most of this Punk stuff is an act.


In Punk/Joe III, that chop from Punk in the beginning, to me, is just the greatest spot of all time. /hyperbole

I'm watching every Kobashi ****1/2+ match since 1990 (now 30 matches through it at mid 95) over the past couple weeks. Kawada just blows away everybody in terms of work. Random note: I mark like a school girl every time he punches Kobashi and vice versa.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I too have Bret/Bigelow at ****1/4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Bret's a guy who I can watch like 10 of his matches in a row and never get bored or yearn to watch someone else. He's just so GOOD at EVERYTHING. He has 20 or so matches that are just downright MASTERPIECES. Then the majority of his other stuff from his WWF days is still pretty darn good. Watching him and Austin, or him and Perfect, you just get a sense you are witnessing art. The performance level of those guys was just so high that at their peaks they were flat out untouchable, by anyone.

I'm excited to watch the Punk/Joe series, I'll definitely be watching them in order then the interviews when I'm done. I've probably only seen 5-6 Somoa Joe matches in my life so it should be a relatively fresh experience getting to see him in action.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

funnyfaces, If you want to cleanse your mouth from the horrible taste that is Armaggeddon's 06 ME. I suggest Jeff & Matt vs MNM from the Rumble 07, solid contest.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ehh Good to see someone out there can sit through 10 Hitman matches in a row


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Until Bryan retires, my actual choice for GOAT is Kawada. Not Punk. Most of this Punk stuff is an act.


Wu... wut? WHAT!? NOOOOO! HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO ME? LEAD ME TO BELIEVING ALL THOSE LIES!








On the topic of the Bret/HBK Ironman man, might just be the most overrated match ever. It's not "bad", but nowhere near a GOAT match like a lot of casuals and WWE themselves would have you believe. Not even one of the better Ironman matches imo. Goes down every time I can muster the strength (and gather the time) to watch it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

No its bad


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> No its bad


Eh, who knows? Another watch or two and I'll probably agree with you if it goes down as much as it went down the last time I watched it. Of course, to make the time to watch an hour long match I don't think is good is going to push my viewing date further and further into the future. Right now, I'm thinking I might get around to it in 2020 or something.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Well its not like the worst match ever but its length hurts it so bad, I would say top 5 WOAT mania Main events


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> I'm watching every Kobashi ****1/2+ match since 1990 (now 30 matches through it at mid 95) over the past couple weeks. Kawada just blows away everybody in terms of work. Random note: I mark like a school girl every time he punches Kobashi and vice versa.


fuckin KAWADA


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

Okay so I've never seen a Cesaro match, cause I don't really follow the current product at all, but I'm interested in watching a couple of his matches. I of course have watched his work as Claudio in ROH/etc., but nothing since he's been in the 'E. What are a couple good Cesaro matches y'all could recommend to me? Thanks.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

KingDio said:


> Okay so I've never seen a Cesaro match, cause I don't really follow the current product at all, but I'm interested in watching a couple of his matches. I of course have watched his work as Claudio in ROH/etc., but nothing since he's been in the 'E. What are a couple good Cesaro matches y'all could recommend to me? Thanks.


Oh, you are in for a thrill buddy. Most of the matches I know are TV matches, but I'm not good with dates, so I'll let the other guys give you some.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Man I just found an AWESOME review site. I have no idea who this guy is but he's already one of my favorites because a.) Eddie is one of his favorites and b.) he writes simply awesome reviews.
> 
> Recommend it to everyone, whiskeyandwrestling.blogspot.co.uk
> 
> He reviews a lot of 1992 WCW, some of hue great WWE stuff (like from Eddie, Rey, Finlay, and Regal) plus a TON of stuff from Japan, especially from Tenryu. I think he might rival Cals love for Tenryu.


:lmao

this is amazing that Andy's blog got a random plug w/o anyone telling him who's it was.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingDio said:


> Okay so I've never seen a Cesaro match, cause I don't really follow the current product at all, but I'm interested in watching a couple of his matches. I of course have watched his work as Claudio in ROH/etc., but nothing since he's been in the 'E. What are a couple good Cesaro matches y'all could recommend to me? Thanks.


vs. Bryan on Raw last year in Bryan's gauntlet match
vs. Cena on Raw this year


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cesaro vs. Randy Orton (Smackdown 2/14)
Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn (NXT Arrival)

Plus you should check out his performance in this year;s Elimination Chamber. He's had some highly touted matches on Main Event against Ziggler & Kofi too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just watch everything he's done, tbhayley. You can pick and choose the minor ones that you know shouldn't be bothered w/, but the dude is so grand, most of his pool since joining is the tops. He got a good match out of Khali, basically the same way how he did vs Kingston. All by himself. It's fascinating.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Cesaro/Zayn NXT series is essential, especially 2/3 falls and Arrival. He tore it up on Main Event last year. Check out the matches against Kingston, Ziggler and Sheamus. Cesaro/Cena 2/17/14 is the best example of him getting the opportunity to work a lengthy match with one of the company's top stars and it's great.


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

Right on, I'll check those matches out. Thanks dudes.

I just watched the one against Cena from Raw this year, wow that was an awesome match. Cesaro is refreshing to watch, doing stuff I haven't seen in wrestling for years. That superplex pulling Cena up from the apron all the way back was great. Can't wait to watch more of him. Next is vs. Kingston from Main Event May 1st 2013, if I can find the whole thing online.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

His work in that match is gonna knock you on your ass.

and holy shit @ all the matches vs Sheamus. Only time he's bust out the Alpamare Waterslide in WWE. Check that out.

his tag work w/Swagger doesn't need to be slept on either. Look up the series of matches vs Goldust & Cody Rhodes _(the match from Main Event this year being their best)_ & Real Americans/Sandow vs Cena/Rhodes Brothers from both Smackdown & RAW last year.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Just watched a TLC from 2002 on RAW, think it was the 4th TLC at the time. Was really fun, some nonsensical moments but the sheer destruction in form of spots is marvelous and boosts the titles (WTTC) credibility.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

^I looked for Real Americans/Rhodes Bros from Main Event last night but couldn't find it. (N) Never seen it. :sad:



KingDio said:


> Right on, I'll check those matches out. Thanks dudes.
> 
> I just watched the one against Cena from Raw this year, wow that was an awesome match. Cesaro is refreshing to watch, doing stuff I haven't seen in wrestling for years. *That superplex pulling Cena up from the apron all the way back was great*. Can't wait to watch more of him. Next is vs. Kingston from Main Event May 1st 2013.


:mark: such an awesome move to have in your repertoire.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Damn. Only can find various other Main Event editions, but not 3/18.

and the superplex from the apron spot is oddly popular now among the world of wrestling. Brian Cage deserves credit for this. 8*D


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Another CESARO match that needs to be mentioned is the Real Americans tag versus Sheamus and Christian. Think it was from the Raw with the awesome Cena/Orton main event. 10th February 2014 being the date iirc.

Cesaro vs Cena from the week after is incredible and I need to rewatch it.

EDIT: Here is Main Event from 18/3/2014.

k2ZEDSYxJLqOOa69Wcj


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

KingDio: In addition to what others have said, check out Regal/Cesaro from December of last year. Beautiful storytelling with some of the best two way selling in quite a while.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> His work in that match is gonna knock you on your ass.
> 
> and holy shit @ all the matches vs Sheamus. Only time he's bust out the Alpamare Waterslide in WWE. Check that out.
> 
> his tag work w/Swagger doesn't need to be slept on either. Look up the series of matches vs Goldust & Cody Rhodes _(the match from Main Event this year being their best)_ & Real Americans/Sandow vs Cena/Rhodes Brothers from both Smackdown & RAW last year. *And the Raw 3/24 match vs. THE SHIELD as well.*


Had to make that addition.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

After that Ambrose/Sheamus match from Smackdown, I'm beginning to think I had Ambrose too low on that mock-up top 10 I did. What other guy impersonates the ref's voice and says "get off the face, Sheamus" only to then lay into Sheamus' face straight after Sheamus let-up. DAT TROLLING :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> I'm watching every Kobashi ****1/2+ match since 1990 (now 30 matches through it at mid 95) over the past couple weeks. Kawada just blows away everybody in terms of work. Random note: I mark like a school girl every time he punches Kobashi and vice versa.


Do you have a list of those ****1/2 matches?


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Spoiler: Kobashi matches



10/19/90 Tsuruta & Taue & Fuchi vs. Misawa & Kawada & Kobashi *****
05/26/90 Misawa & Kobashi & Taue vs. Tsuruta & Kabuki & Fuchi ****1/2
04/20/91 Misawa & Kawada & Kobashi vs. Tsuruta & Taue & Fuchi *****
06/02/91 Tsuruta vs. Kobashi ****3/4
05/22/92 Tsuruta & Fuchi & Taue vs. Misawa & Kobashi & Kawada *****
05/25/92 Kroffat & Furnas vs. Kobashi & Kikuchi (All Asia Tag)***** 
07/05/92 Fuchi & Ogawa vs. Kobashi & Kikuchi (All Asia) ***** 
06/28/92 Misawa & Kobashi vs. Tsuruta & Taue (World Tag) ****3/4
11/29/92 Misawa & Kawada vs. Kobashi & Baba (Tag League) ****3/4 
01/12/92 Tsuruta & Fuchi & Ogawa vs. Misawa & Kobashi & Kawada ****1/2 
02/02/92 Tsuruta & Taue & Fuchi vs. Misawa & Kobashi & Kawada ****1/2 
10/11/92 Kroffat & Furnas vs. Kobashi & Kikuchi (All Asia) ****1/2 
04/14/93 Kawada vs. Kobashi (Carny) ***** 
07/04/93 Kawada & Taue & Ogawa vs. Misawa & Kobashi & Akiyama ***** 
07/29/93 Hansen vs. Kobashi ***** 
09/31/93 Williams vs. Kobashi ***** 
12/3/93 Kawada & Taue vs. Misawa & Kobashi (Tag League) ***** 
01/31/93 Kobashi & Kikuchi vs. Ogawa & Akiyama (All Asia Tag) ****3/4 
04/12/93 Misawa vs. Kobashi (Carny) ****3/4
10/23/93 Kawada vs. Kobashi ****3/4 
01/10/93 Misawa & Kobashi & Kikuchi vs. Taue & Akiyama & Fuchi ****1/2
06/1/93 Taue & Kawada vs. Misawa & Kobashi (World Tag) ****1/2 
06/27/93 Misawa & Kobashi & Kikuchi vs. Kawada & Taue & Ogawa ****1/2
11/28/93 Misawa & Kobashi vs. Williams & Bossman (Tag League) ****1/2 
02/13/94 Baba & Misawa & Kobashi vs. Kawada & Taue & Fuchi ***** 
05/21/94 Misawa & Kobashi vs. Kawada & Taue (World Tag Titles) *****
09/03/94 & 09/10/94 Williams vs. Kobashi ****3/4 
12/10/94 Misawa & Kobashi vs. Williams & Ace (Tag League) ****3/4
02/19/94 Kobashi & Asako vs. Kawada & Omori ****1/2
10/15/94 Misawa & Kobashi & Akiyama vs. Kawada & Taue & Ogawa ****1/2
01/19/95 Kawada vs Kobashi ***** 
01/24/95 Misawa & Kobashi vs. Kawada & Taue (World Tag, draw) ***** 
03/11/95 & 03/18/95 Misawa & Kobashi vs. Williams & Ace (World Tag) ***** 
05/13/95 Kawada vs. Kobashi (Carny) ****1/2 - ***** (it's listed like this on the site and I have no idea why.)
06/11/95 Taue & Kawada vs. Misawa & Kobashi (World Tag) *****+ 
07/02/95 Misawa & Kobashi & Asako vs. Kawada & Taue & Honda ***** 
12/9/95 Misawa & Kobashi vs. Kawada & Taue (Tag Final) ****3/4 
03/31/96 Misawa vs. Kobashi (Carny?) ****3/4 
11/24/96 Misawa & Akiyama vs. Kobashi & Patriot (Tag League) ****3/4 
03/10/96 Kawada & Taue vs. Kobashi & Akiyama (World Tag?) ****1/2 
04/28/96 Ace & Albright & Kawada vs. Misawa & Kobashi & Akiyama ****1/2 
02/02/97 Misawa vs. Kobashi (Triple Crown) ****3/4 
06/01/97 Kobashi & Ace vs. Kawada & Taue (World Tag) ****3/4
04/20/97 Misawa vs. Kobashi (Carny Final 1) ****1/2 
10/26/97 Misawa vs. Kobashi (Triple Crown) ****1/2 
11/23/97 Misawa & Akiyama vs. Kobashi & Ace (Tag Tourney) ****1/2
11/01/98 Misawa vs. Kobashi (Triple Crown) ***** 
07/26/98 Kobashi vs. Akiyama (Triple Crown) ****1/2 
06/13/99 Misawa vs. Kobashi (Triple Crown) ***** 
03/14/99 Kobashi & Akiyama vs. Misawa & Ogawa (World Tag) ****3/4 
01/10/99 Kobashi & Akiyama vs. Kawada & Taue (World Tag) ****1/2 
06/06/99 Kobashi & Kawada vs. Misawa & Taue ****1/2 
2/17/02 Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi vs. Yuji Nagata/Jun Akiyama ****1/2
3/1/03 Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (GHC Title) *****
9/12/03 Kenta Kobashi vs. Yuji Nagata (GHC Title) ****1/2
4/25/04 Kenta Kobashi vs. Yoshihiro Takayama (GHC Title) ****1/2
7/10/04 Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama (GHC Title) *****
7/18/05 Kenta Kobashi vs. Kensuke Sasaki ****3/4
11/5/05 Kenta Kobashi/Go Shiozaki vs. Kensuke Sasaki/Katsuhiko Nakajima ****3/4
Joe vs Kobashi - ROH Joe vs Kobashi *****

Got the ratings from this site: http://www.otherarena.com/z_jdw/ajpwlist.htm

The dates after mid 1995 are slightly wrong because the site lists them by the date they aired and I change them as I watch them to the real date. If you look on theditch.biz you can easily find the real date though


There are glaring omissions to me that Big Dave rated < ****1/2:

vs. Akiyama - 12/23/00
w/KENTA vs Sasaki/Nakajima in June of 08
a GHC title defense vs. Taue in 03 or 04
w/Takayama vs. Misawa/Akiyama - 12/2/07 is close to ****1/2 iirc
some others I can't remember atm


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just for the sake of it, I decided to rewatch Punk/Jericho Payback. It's still, well, _just there_ in terms of what they do in the ring. Nothing has real meaning. On the other hand, its surreal atmopshere and entertainment factor (a finisher fest can be fun if done right, Rock/Cena/Orton) help it out make it kinda OK imo.

And this just dawned on me: everybody that claims it's an awful match is being really, really unfair - *it was doomed from the start.*
1) It was Punk and Jericho, enormous expectations from the moment it was announced, and they already had WM 28, Extreme Rules and Raw Feb 2013 to back up their work together;
2) The buildup was basically non-existent, therefore they had no beef with each other and no story to tell AT ALL;
3) Both Punk and Jericho were tweenerish at the same time in this match, it was quite unclear who the face and heel was;
4) Punk was always known for being sloppy in the ring, him being out for 2 months, against modern day Jericho, didn't really help.

As far as I know, they really had no other thing to do but to simply call an audible and just throw finishers out until sunset hits.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

I've actually never watched a Kobashi match, so this will be a first.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ok, good. The Sasaki match did make the cut.

And Dean Ambrose has gone from universal opinion of "he's only good or doing something interesting while in the six mans" to "holy crap this dude is killing it" in every single outing since about...oh...the first singles match vs Punk on Smackdown last year. From that point on, he's been just that. Which is terrific b/c I knew he should be producing better work than what he was doing for the first year while in singles. Was oddly watered down while the other two were doing what they always did. Something changed _(not regarding the face turn to come from Feb - now)_ and now all three are finally on par in just unleashing hell while working. It's beyond great. These guys are the company right now. _(Along w/other yeah, yeah...)_


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

As far as I'm concerned, Ambrose IS the better member of the Shield right now. All three are awesome, but I like his work the better. And probably the third best babyface in the company atm, just behind Bryan and Zayn.

I guess tonight we'll have the first few announcements regarding Payback. Other than the Main Events all being rematches from Extreme Rules (Cena/Wyatt III will be stuff of nightmares), and more than likely AJ Lee's return, don't really see what else is in store for that show.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Still think the street fight match (Hell No days) between Orton and Bryan on RAW 24/06/13 is their best bout together.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I personally thought it was very good, but no chance in Hell would I put it over the December match (aka Orton's best performance since fucking 2009). Hell, I have their February match over it too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> As far as I know, they really had no other thing to do but to simply call an audible and just throw finishers out until sunset hits.


Plenty of matches on the fly with no build up are quality and without finisher spam. No Mercy 2006 was Benoit's return after 4 months off, and a pretty random match altogether, but they had a mid-tier MOTYC.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't EVER use Benoit/Regal NM '06 - aka arguably the most important match ever for me - against my person. It's a sin. :side:

But good point thought.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

that's b/c chops to the face = massive success


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

That's Regal and Benoit though. I think Jericho is average in the ring and it still was great imo (mostly due to Punk though).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Still think the street fight match (Hell No days) between Orton and Bryan on RAW 24/06/13 is their best bout together.


Their December match is still their best IMO.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> Spoiler: Kobashi matches
> 
> 
> 
> ...


On your Kobashi project, im sure you watched this one, but here is the complete match:

Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs Doug Furnas & Dan Kroffat (AJPW Super Power Series 05/25/92)


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Yeah, I got that one as a top 5 match. The 6/28/92 match surprised me the most. Crowd was giving molton lava levels of heat and everyone was on point. Everybody should jump on that match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Noticed the tag w/Shiozaki vs Tenryu & Akiyama didn't make the list. Blasphemy.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Man, I love all 3 tags of Kobashi vs Tenryu. The one where Taue was on Tenryu's team (can't recall Kobashi's partner, think that was Go to), I gave 4.5 a while ago. A shame he got sick before the epic 1 on 1 match. Also loved his pair of matches with KENTA but who doesn't love to see KENTA get the shit kicked out of him?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Jericho/Austin No Way Out 2002 was disappointing.

And meh, the shows were all about Triple H back then.


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

KOBASHI :mark::mark::mark:

And for more Killer Khan goodness you should watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC1gv1Sdu1I


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Watched Clash XXIII: 

Scorpio vs Windham was a really cool match and probably even much better in 1993. A solid **** for that.
Davey Boy/Sting/Dustin vs Vader/Sid/Rude had an absolute rabid crowd. They even chanted for Sid when he was on the apron. I believe Sid returned the previous month at the first Slamboree. Match was about 10-12 minutes which was way to short but they crammed a bunch of great stuff in there. ***1/2
Flair/Anderson vs Austin/Pillman was disappointing. The ending left me deflated. Crowd was great in this one to for Flair's return match to WCW. ***3/4

Honestly preferred the 6-man over the other 2 despite it having the worst rating.

Tully/Arn vs Dusty/Sting @ CotC 2. I love me some Dusty Rhodes, Tully, and Arn. This could have easily gone 10-15 more minutes. Another ***1/2 match. What is it with Windham interfering? He interfered in the ME of Clash XXIII mentioned above and interfered in this one to get the teams dq'ed both times.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rewatched Chi-Town Rumble today:

Hayes/Assasin- DUD
Sting/Reed- **
Midnight Express&Cornette/Victory&Rose&Dangerously- **3/4
Steiner/Rotundo- ***
Windham/Luger- **3/4
Varsity Club/Road Warriors- *
Steamboat/Flair- ****3/4


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Rah said:


> After that Ambrose/Sheamus match from Smackdown, I'm beginning to think I had Ambrose too low on that mock-up top 10 I did. What other guy impersonates the ref's voice and says "get off the face, Sheamus" only to then lay into Sheamus' face straight after Sheamus let-up. DAT TROLLING :mark:


That happened?!?! I totally missed that. Must have thought it was actually the ref saying it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Plenty of matches on the fly with no build up are quality and without finisher spam. No Mercy 2006 was Benoit's return after 4 months off, and a pretty random match altogether, but they had a mid-tier MOTYC.


Mid tier? Behind only Finlay/Benoit JD, that NM match is #2 for me for MotY 2006. I don't think it's fair at all to compare Punk/Jericho to Regal/Benoit. I like all four guys, but as Bobby Heenan would say, that's like comparing horse manure to ice cream. Benoit had been wrestling Regal since like 1993, I'm pretty sure by 2006 they could have a great match blindfolded. That's probably why they put Benoit with Regal his first time out, since he probably wrestled Regal more than any other person in his career.

I'm loving this Benoit vs The Blue Bloods and Finlay comp. So far I've yet to see a match without some vicious head butts :mark:

Just thinking about it, for me, Benoit some how has all the top 3 spots locked up for MotY 2006. Benoit/Finlay JD at #1, Benoit/Regal NM at #2, and Benoit/Orton SD 1/17/06 (the mat classic) at #3. I can't think of any other year where 1 guy has all my top 3 spots.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Go out with a bang, Benoit. Carrying MVP at two PPVs straight and MOTYCs.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:side: Punk and Jericho told two excellent stories in their Payback match.

I thought I was the only one that didn't like the Sasaki match.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

HHH/Jericho was even worse than Austin/Jericho.

Too bad. Hopefully the rematch at Judgment Day will deliver.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Never thought Jericho/HHH was that bad, It just had the unfortunate fate of a winded crowd (Rock/Hogan) and wacky build up. 3 stars sounds right to me, there was some cool spots in there and by the finale, they'd brought the crowd back to a high pitch. Their rematch inside HIAC is the utter shits though, bad match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nobody is dense enough to dislike Kobashi vs Sasaki.

----------

so I rewatched TLC w/midgets, Shield vs Evolution, & Danielson vs Kane from Extreme Rules. Nothing held up to where my original opinions were. The pre-show match was something I never thought was good. Only surreal to experience all of that on a live watch. No point in seeing it again as the match is really fucking bad. Tiny tables are worth a chuckle though. Six man is even worse than I thought. Blurg. Totally sucks. It's gonna be the match that by the end of the year I'm going to award my _"what in the hell do people see in this match"_ prize. Last year it was that gobshite Gail Kim vs Taryn Last Woman Standing match. That one was far more offensive, but still. I'm on the complete other end of the spectrum w/what I've seen. Heels in the six man were soooo bad. Then the Shield wasn't really being all that special either. Rollins had some good bumps. Reigns did his normal hot tag stuff. Ambrose had a jawbreaker lariat. All the high points. Some who dubbed it as being worked under a Southern Style format must have never seen a Southern Style tag before, apparently. Snoozefest. Danielson vs Kane dropped a mega ton. Not nearly as much fun as I thought on the live airing. Still like the forklift shenanigans just b/c that's hilarious. Plus the headbutt spot still rules. That's about it. Rest of the match is below average on the whole & it really did start to drag at points.

Now this PPV is 100% worthless. This is what happens when I get deprived of Sheamus on an event.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Kobashi vs. Sasaki from Destiny '05? That match is overrated to the high heavens. The chops exchange is cool one time, then it just gets really annoying. I think I gave it *** 1/4 on my last watch.

I FINALLY got around to watching the first half of Wrestlemania XXX last night. Mother of Christ I loved it. I'm gonna wait and watch the back half again before I type out a full review but I tell ya, it's gonna be close to being one of my all time favorites.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pfft. Every wrestler wishes they can contain atmosphere like that. If you go on and praise that shit KENTA match from the same show, there isn't any hope left.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well at least you don't think much to Kane/Bryan any more. That's progress. I guess.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm used to Extreme Rules PPVs being terrible. Nothing new here.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I just don't understand how you can dislike the Shield/Evolution tag. I loved Evolutions old school work over and REALLY loved the Shield getting fed up and taking it to the streets for the chaotic climax. Oh well, different strokes for different folks I guess. It actually went slightly down for me on a rewatch, but that's pretty normal as I consistently overrate stuff when viewing it live. I though Danielson/Kane was good on the rewatch, nothing more, nothing less. If they had had that match 10 years ago without all the constraints they could have made it special, as Bryan just wasn't able to get as violent as I would have liked to have seen. I mean Kane went after his woman and nearly paralyzed Bryan in kayfabe, you'd think a bloody brawl would ensue but that just wasn't in the cards. Extreme Rules to me wasn't HORRENDOUS or anything but it surely wasn't a good show, as only one great match can't make me give a show as a whole high marks, especially when a straight up AWFUL match like Cena/Bray was on the card.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Somehow he found flaws (understandable ones though) in Shield/Evolution, but none in Sheamus/Cena from MITB 2010.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Kobashi vs. Sasaki from Destiny '05? That match is overrated to the high heavens. The chops exchange is cool one time, then it just gets really annoying. I think I gave it *** 1/4 on my last watch.


Booooo! That match is why I love wrestling. Fifteen years of separate build led to this:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Sorry fellas, it just doesn't evoke the same reaction outta me as it did the first time I saw it. I'm gonna go ahead and post this to avoid the risk of me losing it because of Firefox restarting or something:

*Wrestlemania XXX (Part One)

**Winner Gets in the Main Event
*Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan - **** 1/4

The Shield vs. Kane & The New Age Outlaws - SQUASH

Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal - ** 3/4

John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt - *** 3/4

- Before I get into HHH/Bryan, let me first say the opening segment with Rock/Austin/Hogan was awesome. So much fun and a perfect way to start Wrestlemania... in the SUPERdome. :lol Now, Bryan vs. Triple H. This match is the near culmination of a 7 month feud between these two. The video package is perfect and Triple H's entrance is far and away the coolest one I've EVER seen. The camera work is impeccable and it's just so fucking badass. The match itself is a real doozy. The amount of true wrestling that we got in the match is something I always yearn for at Wrestlemania, and we honestly don't get it too often. Matches like Punk/Jericho, Cena/HBK, or Edge/Taker, well this one can be added to the mix. Hunter's aggressiveness towards Bryan's shoulder was wonderful although I wish he would've been more a dick throughout the match. I loved Stephanie being at ringside shouting insults to Bryan all night. The armwork and selling were great, the submissions exchanged were great, and the nearfall off of the pedigree was perfect. Hunter's reaction was wonderful. I loved the struggle they created going into that last pedigree attempt but my only complaint is that I thought the finish was rushed and looked weak. That's the only thing holding me back from saying this a sure fire end of the year MOTYC. Although for me it's right on top of my list. Great stuff.

- Shield vs. the Authority was perfect. Crowd was burnt out from the opener so they kept it short and sweet and squashed the old guys. No complaints.

- I always love battle royals and this Andre The Giant edition is just another example. They did their best to keep it entertaining throughout but obviously the best parts come when there's only 5-10 guys left. Kofi's near elimination was ridiculously cool. How do you come up with something like that??? I was surprised by how many eliminations Del Rio had. Good showing from Sheamus too. Ya gotta love how slowly throughout the match the crowd got into Cesaro and then all at once they started booing Big Show and cheering for the guy. What a moment, what a finish.

- Cena vs. Wyatt is definitely a match I can see some people loving and some people hating. I personally loved it. It was all about mind games from the opening bell. Bray wants Cena to bust out his inner dark side and he's willing to sacrifice himself to do it. He's either gonna win the match and destroy the legacy or he's gonna destroy John Cena by making him change his whole demeanor (win or loss). The picture of Bray holding Cena's head in his lap and singing "he's got the world in his hands" is completely indicative of what they were trying to do here. Cena's lapses in concentration and outbursts of rage were comical in a sense but also extremely surreal to watch. It was kind of like watching a heel John Cena. What the hell is that!?  Cena having to fight off Harper and Rowan at surprise times was good too. I never like AA out of nowhere finishes and I didn't really like it here, but hey, it works. That Sister Abigal nearfall was a close one too. It's a shame this was so good and their Cage match the next month was total horse shit.​

*PART TWO COMING SOON!!!*​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

First half of WM 30 is perfect except for Cena going over Wyatt. Everything else is spot on. The second half is pretty good and a true emotional rollercoaster as well. The full package is a Top 5 WM ever imo.

But wait, wait, now Cody hates on the Hornswoggle/Torito match too? Oh Jesus. Wrestling is about storytelling AND fun, and there's few stuff that's more fun that watching two midgets and their goons breaking tables left from right, c'mon now :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The welts that were on Sasaki's chest when they paid the proper respect to each other at the end of the match. Never enough ways to describe the sight. 

Now that's wrestling.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

WM22 is the epitome of fun. A filler WM done right.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Filler WM 

did a memo come out telling the world 2006 didn't matter?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> WM22 is the epitome of fun. A filler WM done right.


A filler WM?

No WrestleMania is filler. It's WrestlefuckingMania. It's NEVER filler. You could argue 27 was totally a filler WM (that show was basically WM 28 Part 1), but other than that, you kinda can't. And WM 22 had a stacked card on paper, and delievered in spades in execution. Can't see where its filler.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yea. I don't understand calling WM 22 "filler" at all. I personally thoroughly enjoyed that show, especially the MotN Foley/Edge. The old Micker stealing the show at WRESTLEMANIA with both Shawn AND Hunter on the card is a memory I will cherish forever.

Someone in another thread was discussing guys in wrestling that the did the most while doing the least. Like guys that didnt really do many moves at all, but everything they did was done perfectly and they always end up having good-great matches. I'm sure there are plenty of Japanese wrestlers who were good at this, but on American soil Jake Roberts and Mick Foley are the two best examples I could come up with of guys that did so much while doing so little. Any better examples you can think of?


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

WM 22 definitely wasn't filler, but there's a lot of crap on it (Boogeyman/Booker T, Big Show & Kane/Carlito & Masters, Torrie/Candice, Undertaker/Henry, etc.), and only one GREAT match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Tag and casket matches were far from crap. They should be replaced with the MITB match. Now THAT was shite.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Someone in another thread was discussing guys in wrestling that the did the most while doing the least. Like guys that didnt really do many moves at all, but everything they did was done perfectly and they always end up having good-great matches. I'm sure there are plenty of Japanese wrestlers who were good at this, but on American soil Jake Roberts and Mick Foley are the two best examples I could come up with of guys that did so much while doing so little. Any better examples you can think of?


Well, don't most of the old school guys fall in that category? The Briscos, Race, Dusty, Flair, Gagne, Bock, Wahoo, Murdoch, Slater, etc. etc. etc? I like to think of Jake and Foley as the two guys who were simply old school, but in a different, modern enviroment.

As far as Japan goes, there's Jumbo. Motherfucker, all he did was painful headlocks, high knees, lariats and backdrop drivers. Oh, and right fist in the air to drive the crowds crazy. Kill. Repeat. CAL hates him, but Keiji Muto has become an instant GOAT once he shaved his head. Literally, all he does is dragon screws, low dropkicks to the knee, which leads to the shining wizard, which leads to the moonsault. You see, absolutely EVERYTHING in his offense is subordinated to the moonsault finisher. 

America, Mexico, Japan, it doesn't matter, simplicity is the key to brilliance.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Well, don't most of the old school guys fall in that category? The Briscos, Race, Dusty, Flair, Gagne, Bock, Wahoo, Murdoch, Slater, etc. etc. etc? I like to think of Jake and Foley as the two guys who were simply old school, but in a different, modern enviroment.
> 
> As far as Japan goes, there's Jumbo. Motherfucker, all he did was painful headlocks, high knees, lariats and backdrop drivers. Oh, and right fist in the air to drive the crowds crazy. Kill. Repeat. CAL hates him, but Keiji Muto has become an instant GOAT once he shaved his head. Literally, all he does is dragon screws, low dropkicks to the knee, which leads to the shining wizard, which leads to the moonsault. You see, absolutely EVERYTHING in his offense is subordinated to the moonsault finisher.
> 
> America, Mexico, Japan, it doesn't matter, simplicity is the key to brilliance.



I've seen that Dory/Brody bloodbath from your sig. That and the match Dory had with Lawler in Memphis are the only two Dory matches I've ever really liked (granted I might have seen 6 total :side: )

I guess you are right, old school would be a good way to describe it. You listed Gagne, Bockwinkle, and Jack Briscoe and I don't think I'd necessarily include them in that category. They had a lot of neat, crafty holds and especially Bockwinkle comes to mind as a guy who was just a wizard with counters and holds on the mat. 

I was more thinking of guys like Dusty, he didn't really do shit tbh but people just went nuts for everything he did because he sold like a son of a bitch and had that fire, the kind of fire that makes that goofy Bionic Elbow a devastating move. Harley Race was another, he just beat the crap out of people with high knees, knee drops, forearms, and he'd slip a good closed fist punch or two in for good measure. And of course, Terry Funk is probably the best example. I know he's had some great mat matches but the best Funk for me is just the wild crazy man from the late 80s and early 90s that just wanted to brawl.

If we are only talking modern guys, like from the mid 90s on, Micks the best example I can think of of that old school style being worked in the modern environment. He really only had a handful of moves but he made the absolute most out of them. He would have succeeded in any era.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Is Global Warning '02 any good of a show? I really enjoyed Rock/Brock/HHH (***1/2), but that card sounds pretty awesome on paper (Noble/Helms, Jericho/Edge, UnAmericans/Rey & Kidman).


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

ATF said:


> Is Global Warning '02 any good of a show? I really enjoyed Rock/Brock/HHH (***1/2), but that card sounds pretty awesome on paper (Noble/Helms, Jericho/Edge, UnAmericans/Rey & Kidman).


Can't say for myself, but my friend says the three matches you listed were good, but disappointing. I have to watch myself (especially considering Helms and Noble :mark.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*** for Edge/Jericho and the tag, ** for Noble/Helms.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I've seen that Dory/Brody bloodbath from your sig. That and the match Dory had with Lawler in Memphis are the only two Dory matches I've ever really liked (granted I might have seen 6 total :side: )
> 
> I guess you are right, old school would be a good way to describe it. You listed Gagne, Bockwinkle, and Jack Briscoe and I don't think I'd necessarily include them in that category. They had a lot of neat, crafty holds and especially Bockwinkle comes to mind as a guy who was just a wizard with counters and holds on the mat.


Dory Jr. is an ace, find and watch everything you can.

And yeah, probably shouldn't have included Bock.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Mid tier? Behind only Finlay/Benoit JD, that NM match is #2 for me for MotY 2006.


"Mid-tier MOTYC" tends to be what I use to describe a match that I think could be a MOTYC, but realistically doesn't have much a match a chance at actually being MOTY. It's a tremendous match but I know immediately I prefer Benoit/Finlay and others.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I've seen that Dory/Brody bloodbath from your sig.


That's Terry. :side:



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> guys that did so much while doing so little. Any better examples you can think of?


#1 - Jerry Lawler
#2 - it doesn't matter
#3 - still doesn't matter
#4 - nope, still doesn't matter
etc.


----------



## JamesK (Oct 7, 2012)

Just watched the Wrestling Diaries Too.. It was good but not better than the previous one...

It showed more of the struggles that an indy wrestler faces in his life but still it was missing something...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> "Mid-tier MOTYC" tends to be what I use to describe a match that I think could be a MOTYC, but realistically doesn't have much a match a chance at actually being MOTY. It's a tremendous match but I know immediately I prefer Benoit/Finlay and others.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Am I missing a joke? Cause that's def Dory Jr.


I was watching one of those Legends Roundtable shows yesterday, and they had Dusty, JR, Michael Hayes, Pat Patterson, and Mike Graham talking about Jerry Lawler. They all agreed that Jerry Lawler was an all time great, but they also all said he wasn't that great in the ring. I found this to be absolutely shocking, especially for someone like JR to say that. I'm not as big a Lawler mark as you and Cal and others are, but even so, I really don't think you can make a top 10-15 wrestlers in US history list and not include him. Jerry would not have been as successful as he was if he tried to work a mat based technical style. Jerry epitomized the "Memphis style" of heated action with monster come backs or if he was playing heel doing diabolical beat downs. I'm curious if outside of this thread if others share the same opinion, that Lawler was a legend just not that great in the ring.

Edit- shit just realized, he has one of those sigs that changes gifs. I'm an idiot fpalm


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can understand Lawler not being someone's cup of tea (he certainly isn't mine when he's a face), but he was definitely "that great". His emotional intelligence and understanding of how to sequence and match as well as his ability to communicate with the crowd is unmatched. But this is all just choir preaching. But it is interesting how the big names in the business have differing opinions to us fans. Like all the greats that talk about how Kurt Angle is among the best ever. Or Chris Jericho saying that the Payback match was the best of the Punk/Jericho series. Or Chris Benoit talking about how much he loved the Unforgiven 2002 match with Angle, which gets criticized here by everyone except for me and MachoMadness. Strange world.

There was a Reddit post recently about how Jerry Lawler talked to someone about his feelings on Bryan, Flair, and Cena. Pretty interesting: http://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/2443wc/just_met_jerry_lawler_and_he_has_a_pretty/

Dory was to Terry like Rick was to Scott.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ha, yeah, I didn't see he had alternating sigs. 

Lawler as a face is obviously better Lawler as a heel. It's largely due to lack of footage, but how many great matches does he have as a heel on tape?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I just can't seem to support Lawler when he pulls his straps down and no-sells his opponent leading to a victory. That's not to say I think he's a bad face (I actually think he's a better face in the ring), but I just can't seem to support Lawler when he does his babyface schtick. It's just not what I want in a babyface. Sorta like how I feel about Sheamus. Dude is an incredible talent, but impossible for me to naturally like as a face like Lawler.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I can understand Lawler not being someone's cup of tea (he certainly isn't mine when he's a face), but he was definitely "that great". His emotional intelligence and understanding of how to sequence and match as well as his ability to communicate with the crowd is unmatched. But this is all just choir preaching. But it is interesting how the big names in the business have differing opinions to us fans. Like all the greats that talk about how Kurt Angle is among the best ever. Or Chris Jericho saying that the Payback match was the best of the Punk/Jericho series. Or Chris Benoit talking about how much he loved the Unforgiven 2002 match with Angle, which gets criticized here by everyone except for me and MachoMadness. Strange world.
> 
> There was a Reddit post recently about how Jerry Lawler talked to someone about his feelings on Bryan, Flair, and Cena. Pretty interesting: http://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/2443wc/just_met_jerry_lawler_and_he_has_a_pretty/
> 
> Dory was to Terry like Rick was to Scott.


No way man I'm a big supporter of that Unforgiven 02 match, gave it **** on last watch. I tried explaining to Cal why it was so great but he totally no sold me and said it was crap. Or maybe it was Hayley that said it. Or maybe it was both of them :side: 

But yea, I'm a fan of WM 17, Backlash 2001, Unforgiven 2002, and Royal Rumble 2003 from the Angle/Benoit Series. Only match of theirs I can remember flat out hating was Judgement Day 2001.



Yeah1993 said:


> Ha, yeah, I didn't see he had alternating sigs.
> 
> Lawler as a face is obviously better Lawler as a heel. It's largely due to lack of footage, but how many great matches does he have as a heel on tape?


This is pretty much my view point. I'd say like 85% of the Lawler matches I've seen and loved were with him as a baby face. Nothing beats him just getting fed up, dropping the strap, and just throwing bunches of those beautiful punches.



funnyfaces1 said:


> I just can't seem to support Lawler when he pulls his straps down and no-sells his opponent leading to a victory. That's not to say I think he's a bad face (I actually think he's a better face in the ring), but I just can't seem to support Lawler when he does his babyface schtick. It's just not what I want in a babyface. Sorta like how I feel about Sheamus. Dude is an incredible talent, but impossible for me to naturally like as a face like Lawler.



I can totally understand that view point. Only match I can ever remember getting totally behind Sheamus as a face was that Hell in a Cell match with Show. That was his best face performance. Even in his classic vs Bryan at ER, I was totally behind Bryan all the way and I'm not just a Bryan mark. Sheamus is just not like able as a face to me. Punker is the same on his promos, can't get behind him as a face. I'd say the same goes for him in the ring but he went and gave the performance of a lifetime as a face in that match with Brock. Shawn Michaels is another guy I always had trouble rooting for as a face, especially in his 2002-2010 run (outside his first SS match with Hunter that is, I was totally rooting for him there).


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Angle/Benoit from JD 2001 :ti 

SO FUCKING BAD


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Kane has never had a four star match (thread).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That gothicthug guy once referred to Eddie Guerrero as merely a Mexican jumping bean. What have we done to deserve this?

LMFAO at the Doug Basham reference on RAW.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena/Wyatt LMS. I think that's a good stip for them. Hoping for a strong character driven performance from Bray a la WrestleMania.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Rhodes/Damien was decent, I think the tag team duo with Goldust has improved Cody's ring work greatly.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Batista/Reigns was painfully bad.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

6-man tag probably was the best match of the night... I didn't watch it as I had to deal with something while the match was going on, but if it wasn't that's pretty bad. Sandow/Cody would be MOTN out of the matches I watched, but that's like **ish tops. Reigns/Batista was awful, as expected. Fox/Paige was all Fox, and no Barrett made me sad. 

So yeah, awful episode of Raw.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Duggan/Rusev/Big E segment was great. I've grown to appreciate Duggan after checking out his territory greatness. Dude was an indie darling of the 80s that was part of McMahon's circus of under utilized territory legends.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I only caught the last hour of RAW, but man was it depressing. How has no one brought up Bryan's neck surgery in here yet? haha. I'm pretty scared what this means for the PPV, for his career, and of course for the WWE Title. No time table for a return yet. I also can't tell you how many times one of the announcers would say "you can tell _______ isn't finished with ______ just yet." I feel like I'm watching the same episodes of RAW over and over again. Ready for some fresh stuff now, guys.

But hey, hopefully Cena vs. Wyatt LMS works. I'm not all that excited about the Shield/Evolution rematch because I think it REALLY needs a stipulation added, but we'll see. Kinda tired of seeing RAW end the same way too. Not sure why they even booked these singles matches when you know they're gonna lead to DQ finishes and brawls. Poor Ryback taking all these triple powerbombs. 

Best part was the Rusev stuff. Worst part was seeing Rhodes and Sandow wrestle. Both guys look out of shape to me.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

I'm torn with Bray/Cena LMS
The match itself could be great but my interest in the story of Bray/Cena is dead after Cena's promo on Main Event.

Shield/Evolution definitely need a stipulation added

The heel roster should've stopped helping the authority after the Shield beat them down on SD, and why is Ryback the "go-to guy" to eat a Triple Powerbomb ?

Bryan being injured lowers my interest in the show right now.
Bryan, Shield & Wyatts have been "must me" since Febuary. Cesaro would be there to if i knew where they were going with the Cesaro/Heyman pairing.
Thankfully MITB is next month, hoping for a Cesaro, Reigns or Bray win.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

So Bryan's actually getting neck surgery? I only caught the last hour of Raw. Thought it might be an angle.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah he's for real having neck surgery this Thursday. I've read reports saying that it will only be "minorly invasive" but they have no timetable for his return as of yet. Not sure how to feel about it.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Saint Dick said:


> So Bryan's actually getting neck surgery? I only caught the last hour of Raw. Thought it might be an angle.


He cut a promo earlier in the night and said he needed neck surgery. Later in the night Stephanie wanted Bryan to come to the ring and tell him something, Kane's music hit and he dragged an unconscious Bryan out on stage.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

If he has to vacate the title... No, fuck that. It can't happen. Christ.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Saint Dick said:


> If he has to vacate the title... No, fuck that. It can't happen. Christ.


The reports so far say it's a small time surgery and he won't be out for long. I don't think this is like issue Austin/Benoit/Edge had.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Well, there was no formal title vacating yet and for what it is worth there was the last segment we saw Bryan in, but unbeknowst to me since I don't follow the dirtsheets intentionally, Bryan really is injured. Neck injuries always scare, and I hope that Bryan can overcome this being that he is usually the one taking the majority of the bumps in his matches. Bryan has morphed his style over time though and has such a damn expansive moveset spanning tons of different stories he has told in the ring and premium timing that physicality cannot take away, but I hope that Bryan's pacing, move execution in particular and his second to Rollins bumping ability doesn't fade with whatever this is if in fact it is the neck. That said, we have seen various acclaimed workers come back better than ever after serious injury, and while by wrestling standards having a supbar frame, Bryan has been a machine of consistancy in regards to ring performance his whole career, so I hold belief he will be back. Besides, I don't know the severity of this injury. I know the circumstances are completely different and Bryan has reached the top of the mountain, but I would hate for a Magnum T.A. situation to occur again where a hotstreaked man on the path to true acclaimed wrestling greatness is derailed. Especially a man like Bryan.

What I do know is that the landscape without Bryan looks potentially godawful for the title scene. We just came off of Orton, I highly real life speaking doubt HHH would instert himself into the rigors and mounted responsibilities of champ on top of COO duties. Batista is supposedly on his way out; we just came off of an Orton run; I doubt WWE wants to pay Brock enough for him to be champion not to mention Brock being a farmboy it is planting season right now plus Brock doesn't fight at house shows and is a private man which in a global company is horrid for the representative to be; Cesaro's push into the title scene is a slow building process that as talented as he is in the ring without foundation will collapse (Hell that project is stagnant right now); Roman Reigns works well as closer of the Shield but doesn't have the seasoning/ability to wrestle even ten minutes without feeding off of Rollins/Ambrosse. Reigns will be the franchise eventually, but will fail right now. Business wise, Cena always works but quality wise God help us if he is champion again. I doubt Kane holds interest at this stage after so many years of being a horse workload wise to be champ especially when he reportedly looks to be building his exit plan from wrestling. Ambrosse/Rollins have the talent but not the establishment with the majority of the audience (casual viewers) or credibility yet to warrant belt consideration. Besides, the Shield are such a perfect unit that are really consistent horses motivating the rest of the non title match players to elevate their performance that also are budding with the audience more. Hence, I think the Shield are far too valuable to split especially as a vehicle to develop of the three as individuals. 

I think if this is long term best move from a quality standpoint would be to have a double finish for LMS, have Cena/Bray fight in a stipulation match that must have a finish for the vacated belts and give Bray the strap. It isn't perfect by any means, but Bray's character can have material generated for years, The Wyatts are one of the more over acts in the company with live audiences, Bray could employ the same formula he does now and wrestle any side of the fence; for once we would have a champion willing to fight. From a business standpoint, I guess Cena is the only way to go.

Unfortunately if I had to venture a guess as to what will happen if Bryan is out more then a few months, I would bet that WWE jumps the gun on Reigns and does something crazy like split the Shield, which would be horrible for reasons explained already plus Reigns would have zero safety net. I could see WWE also going with Cena as per usual and for the dollar.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

A minor invasive neck surgery is nothing to worry about. i'm having one next week for a few herniated discs. He'll be back fine and 100% within a couple months.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> A minor invasive neck surgery is nothing to worry about. i'm having one next week for a few herniated discs. He'll be back fine and 100% within a couple months.


Wtf? How ironic is this? :lol

Just finished the rewatch of Brock/Taker from Mania. My lord it's even worse than it was live. Not good by any standards or stretches of the imagination and that's a real shame.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Rhodes/Mysterio WM27 or Punk/Mysterio WM26?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Wtf? How ironic is this? :lol
> 
> Just finished the rewatch of Brock/Taker from Mania. My lord it's even worse than it was live. Not good by any standards or stretches of the imagination and that's a real shame.


That's how I felt when I re-watched it a few weeks ago. I was looking at the time wondering "when the fuck will this end!?" It was so slow... so bad... ugh. At least I spotted where 'Taker probably got the concussion, but yeah, the match sucked, and it actually looked like it was going to be at least good based on the start.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Rhodes/Mysterio WM27 or Punk/Mysterio WM26?



Dig them both of course but I think the Punker match at 26 is the superior of the two. It's only around 7-8 minutes but geeze do they ever fill it splendidly. One of the top sub 10 minute matches of the past 5 years.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I'd agree with that, it makes my top 5 under ten minute matches, right with - Angle/Mysterio (the tops) Show/Lesnar, Matt/Edge and Kane/Austin (RAW).


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Alicia Fox was the best thing about RAW this week.

See what happens when they actually put something coherent together for a diva who can actually do something? Last time this happened was that AJ/Kaitlyn fakeout.

And then they undo it all with that pointless Natalya/Nikki/Total Divas thing. Did they ever explain what the point was in the girls holding up the papers to judge the moves?

RAW was awful. Although for some reason, I liked Rusev's superkick on Big E.

Lana's facial expressions when assessing Jim Duggan were hilarious. Girl's got presence. Lana/Fox/Stephanie > the others.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Whoops.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bryan 

Sheamus Vs Cesaro on Main Event tonight though. Yey.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Bryan
> 
> Sheamus Vs Cesaro on Main Event tonight though. Yey.


:mark:

Their match on Main Event last year was absolutely SICK. Probably the best Main Event match of the entire year. Just two guys being physical as shit beating on each other.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Check out their June sd match Cjack 


Raw sucked, Bryan gone for a bit, Orton still thinks he is a snake, Hhh still cutting 20 min boring promos, big e is still employed ,product sucks as a whole. Where is this new era that was suppose to take in after mania ? Lol wwe hasn't done anything worth a thing since then


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

NAITCH said:


> Check out their June sd match Cjack
> 
> 
> Raw sucked, Bryan gone for a bit, Orton still thinks he is a snake, Hhh still cutting 20 min boring promos, big e is still employed ,product sucks as a whole. Where is this new era that was suppose to take in after mania ? Lol wwe hasn't done anything worth a thing since then


The Shield has been killing it as of late, so that's something to look forward to.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Shield/Evolution feud is sex. And Orton is starting to wear clothes, which is progress.

Punk/Hardy/Edge from the Donald Trump RAW rules.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cesaro/Sheamus should be great. Was actually there live for their Main Event match last year and it was easily the match of the whole night. Don't think it was anything like a top 10, 20, or maybe even 30 match of the year though, and certainly not better than the Barrett/Sheamus match the week before, but since it is Cesaro and Sheamus, naturally one should go into it with high expectations.

Plus if anyone has a shot at beating Sheamus right now, it's Cesaro, who's been very protected recently. Last year it was obvious Sheamus would win, but this year, at least to me, it's unpredictable, which makes it a lot more appealing.

Also, I haven't been feeling this Shield/Evolution feud. Feels like they're struggling to keep it going, and until they announce some stip that will allow them to go crazy all match, can't say I'm looking forward to the match. But yeah, feud is dragging right now, and hopefully it ends at Payback. Shield get their second win, Batista leaves, Orton does whatever, and HHH does whatever.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

NAITCH said:


> Check out their June sd match Cjack
> 
> 
> Raw sucked, Bryan gone for a bit, Orton still thinks he is a snake, Hhh still cutting 20 min boring promos, big e is still employed ,product sucks as a whole. Where is this new era that was suppose to take in after mania ? Lol wwe hasn't done anything worth a thing since then



Will do thanks brother.


And I agree completely. WWE has all this great momentum going after WM 30, it was really looking like they had turned a page and started going full blown with this youth movement and all the creative juices talents like Danielson, Shield, Cesaro, and Wyatt should inspire. And then the build to ER happened. And the. ER happened. And then the last 2 weeks of television happened. And now I'm convinced it's same old same old. WWE just has such a depressingly low amount of creativivity anymore, no one knows how to book or present wrestling anymore. It almost feels like the few times they do things right, it's on accident.

If they HAD to go Bryan/Kane following WM, why not keep Kane as "Corporate Kane"? No one would ever believe Kane will a title match in 2014, mask or no mask. The story could be that after the splitting up of Hell No, Bryan worked his way to the top while Kane sold out to get there. Masked Man said this and I definitely agree, a sell out in this day and age is a lot more hated than a monster. Monsters are almost cool now, sell outs will never, ever be cool. They should be using their history in Hell No a lot more as well. Make things more personal. You know, create an honest to goodness heated issue. But that seems beyond their capabilities at this point.

Shield/Evolution is okay, nothing more. Really feels like it's missing something but I just can't put my finger on it.


How dope would a Shield/Danielson/Cesaro vs HHH/Orton/Batista/Kane/Sheamus WarGames match be? Sweet Jesus they need to do that already. I'd faint,


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I really, really enjoyed Sheamus/Ryback last night. The Axel match was shit, but I've never been so happy to see Ryback get in there. 

I'm still enjoying Shield/Evolution, and I still think they're throw a stipulation on it. Hell in a Cell would be :mark: 

Was figuring that Stephanie would strip Bryan of the belts but with them having Kane attack him, I guess this is a way of keeping him off TV (and probably Payback) for however long.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I loved where the product was going initially after Wrestlemania (like seriously fucking loved it) but it's really hit a stale point here. They frankly just aren't building enough guys right now for me or other people to care about. The Shield has been booked stronger than ever, which is great, but the Evolution feud is getting repetitive now. Bryan vs. Kane I was a big fan of in the first few weeks and including their match at Extreme Rules, but it now it seems they're just forcing it to be dragged out because Batista didn't wanna put over Bryan again. They've done well with Sheamus & Barrett with their new title wins but idk what Cesaro is doing and really that's about it. The tag division took a HUGE nosedive after the Rhodes lost the straps to the fucking New Age Outlaws. Seriously, what in the actual fuck? I almost forgot Rusev! I like that dude so far. Lana.  Cena vs. Wyatt has went down the shitter after Extreme Rules.

Oh well, at least we have NXT.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> How dope would a Shield/Danielson/Cesaro vs HHH/Orton/Batista/Kane/Sheamus WarGames match be? Sweet Jesus they need to do that already. I'd faint,


Who the hell would wrestle on the rest of the card?  Too many top performers to throw in one match if you ask me when you would have the rest of the card consisting of John Cena, The Wyatts, Bad News Barrett... and the rest would be some jobbers with the Usos thrown in somewhere. MAYBE if you had Brock back you could pull it off.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm not a fan of Rusev, but him taking out Big E last night :banderas


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Sheamus/Ryback was alright I guess, though they had a better match a while back on SD. Also, still can't get over the fact Sheamus won two matches in a row, the second of which against Ryback. Ridiculous. <_<

When Big E's music played last night, I couldn't stop laughing my ass off. Where are them "Rusev is racist" comments? Surely there has to be some hilarity on Facebook about it. :lol


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

With Bryan gone I doubt I'll even bother with Raw for a while, even before now I didnt really have much interest in the product and now I could care less about PB


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Spoiler: Bryan



PWInsider is reporting Bryan maybe be out 6-8 weeks.

Maybe he'll just pull a Cena and be back in 3. 


If this is true and they end up doing Cena/Wyatt Last Man Standing then to make up for it I think you need to make Shield vs. Evolution some sort of Chicago Street Fight. They need to do something similar to TLC 2012 when Punk was out. Big stipulations. You can still run Big E vs. Rusev maybe on the preshow and... maybe Usos vs. Rowan & Harper for the tag straps? No clue what to do with the IC and US Titles.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Really digging the :bryan2 ROH DVDs I just got. SO much fun. 

Lana is just :lenny so the more Rusev on TV the better. 

Chicago Street Fight? Yes please! :mark:


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Agree that they need an all-out war between Shield and Evolution for Payback. Chicago Street Fight is definitely the way to go but dat image of Batista fighting in skinny jeans :lmao



Jack Evans 187 said:


> I loved where the product was going initially after Wrestlemania (like seriously fucking loved it) but it's really hit a stale point here.*They frankly just aren't building enough guys right now for me or other people to care about.* The Shield has been booked stronger than ever, which is great, but the Evolution feud is getting repetitive now. Bryan vs. Kane I was a big fan of in the first few weeks and including their match at Extreme Rules, but it now it seems they're just forcing it to be dragged out because Batista didn't wanna put over Bryan again. They've done well with Sheamus & Barrett with their new title wins but idk what Cesaro is doing and really that's about it. The tag division took a HUGE nosedive after the Rhodes lost the straps to the fucking New Age Outlaws. Seriously, what in the actual fuck? I almost forgot Rusev! I like that dude so far. Lana.  Cena vs. Wyatt has went down the shitter after Extreme Rules.


That's been a constant problem for the company especially when it comes to their midcard.
Even when they're building someone up it's halfa** and sometimes outright bad.

Someone in the back really expects us to cheer for guys like Big E when they've done nothing with them.


----------



## Rated Y2J (Apr 3, 2006)

How do you guys keep track of your star ratings? Spreadsheets/Word, etc? Or just by memory? Just wondering as i'm thinking of going through 1993 WWE on the Network and keeping track of my star ratings somehow or another, so I don't loose them.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Sheamus/Cesaro announcement was probably the best thing about Raw last night.

Cena & Usos/Wyatts was sorta good, but good ol'LOLCENAWINS was just irritating. Paige/Alicia was 100% Alicia. Shield/Evolution segments were fun (Batista/Reigns was horrible though). Bryan taking time off sucks. Totally didn't gave a fuck about anything else.

Also, WHERE THE FUCK WAS BARRETT?! This alone made the show just that much less enjoyable, let alone the show itself sucking.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus vs Ambrose from Smackdown last week is all sorts of fabulous. Can this happen again? Do it, WWE. You don't have anything better.

Also, Harper & Rowan are seriously the best damn duo this company has to offer.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I only didn't give that match a well deserved ***1/2 on rewatch because of the overrating feels. But if those two get 20 minutes and face/heel roles planned out totally on PPV? MOTYC easily. _Ambrose is the best performer in the company right now, FUCKING PERIOD._

Oh, and I'd make an argument for Cody & Goldust if they were used better.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rated Y2J said:


> How do you guys keep track of your star ratings? Spreadsheets/Word, etc? Or just by memory? Just wondering as i'm thinking of going through 1993 WWE on the Network and keeping track of my star ratings somehow or another, so I don't loose them.


Honestly I just post them in here and search for something if I need to freshen my memory. If not I just put them in an occasional word document.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Wrestlemania XXX (Part Two)

**The Streak
*The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar - **

*Vickie Guerrero Divas Championship Invitational
*AJ Lee (c) vs. The Bella Twins vs. Everyfuckingoneelse - *

*WWE World Heavyweight Championship
*Randy Orton (c) vs. Batista vs. Daniel Bryan - *** 3/4

- As I stated last night, Taker vs. Lesnar was not good at all. Very slow, very drawn out, very repetitive. Taker seemed like a shadow of his former self and Lesnar didn't do much to help. The initial setup for Hell's Gate was flat our horrible. Brock stood there for 10 seconds then randomly acted like he was hurt and went back to it. The biggest and almost only positive out of the whole match was Brock's show of power with the F5s. Tossing a 300 pound man like it's nothing. The only reason this gets ** is because of the F5s, the pure shock at the end, and I just feel dirty giving an Undertaker match at this point less than **. Maybe if it was 1991. 

- Divas Invitational. Bella Twins made it watchable and there was a turnbuckle spot. AJ was not even apart of the match until the very end.

- I didn't quite like the main event as much as I did initially, but that's mainly because I knew the outcome. The match actually seemed much shorter and there was less adversity for Bryan, but obviously it was still the same. My biggest complaint was how Batista reacted after the powerbomb neckbreaker spot through the table. Why not just pick someone up and throw them in to win the damn belt instead of just standing there? Annoying. Then when he starts attacking Orton he's doing it OUTSIDE the ring like he can win out there. THEN Orton completely randomly comes back out of nowhere like he's fine. More annoying stuff. Everything else was still the same good stuff as before. The final minutes didn't feel nearly as long. Seemed like there were way more nearfalls watching it live. Oh well. Very good main event but not one of the best. HHH/Bryan goes down as MOTN with Cena/Wyatt and the main event tied for second. Leaning toward Cena/Wyatt honestly.

- So when it boils down, due to the extremely poor middle portion, this is not one of my favorite shows of all time. I'd probably slot it as my 3rd or 4th favorite Wrestlemania behind at least 17 and 19. I'd have to watch a few others like 10, 24, and 26 to compare. If 28 didn't have two matches that went WAY too long it would be up there too.​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't even need a face vs heel dynamic to want to see it again. Sheamus still a face, but working like he always does? Sold. Ambrose has turned the corner to being so damn complete & nifty in all his matches that it isn't even a selling point anymore. It's a done deal.

Goldust & Rhodes to get back to that level would be fabulous, but most of the time they aren't given the chance. Harper & Rowan are even excelling in matches I originally write-off as being "worthless", yet they're making me care. Big boss chiefs who are spinning everything they are given into gold. They know how to work their matches brilliantly.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So, am I the only one who enjoyed Fandango/Ziggler last night? I mean it's not MOTY stuff but I can't be the only one who had fun with it while it lasted.

Also, I'm listening to a PW Torch podcast and I now remember why I stopped listening to crap like this. Just a bunch of old guys bitching, complaining, moaning and over-scrutinizing everything. As if this place weren't enough already.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*2 new comps. PM me for more info.*

*Best of Daniel Bryan (22 Discs)*


Spoiler: listings



Disc 1
Daniel Bryan vs Chris Jericho - NXT 23.02.2010
Nexus vs Team WWE - Summerslam 2010
Daniel Bryan vs The Miz - US Championship - Night Of Champions 2010
Daniel Bryan vs The Miz vs John Morrison - Submissions Count Anywhere - US Championship - Hell In A Cell 2010
Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler - Bragging Rights 2010

Disc 2
Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 25.10.2010
Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler - Smackdown 29.10.2010
Daniel Bryan vs Ted DiBiase - US Championship - Survivor Series 2010
Daniel Bryan vs William Regal - Raw 20.12.2010
Daniel Bryan & Mark Henry vs Tyson Kidd & Ted DiBiase - Superstars 06.01.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Ted DiBiase - NXT 25.01.2011
Daniel Bryan vs The Miz - Raw 14.02.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Ted DiBiase - Superstars 24.02.2011
Daniel Bryan & Gail Kim vs Tyson Kidd & Melina - Superstars 24.03.2011
Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 06.05.2011

Disc 3
Daniel Bryan vs Sin Cara - Smackdown 13.05.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Cody Rhodes - Smackdown 27.05.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Ted DiBiase - Smackdown 03.06.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Cody Rhodes - Smackdown 24.06.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Ted DiBiase - Smackdown 01.07.2011

Daniel Bryan vs Cody Rhodes - Smackdown 15.07.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus vs Kane vs Wade Barrett vs Cody Rhodes vs Sin Cara vs Justin Gabriel vs Heath Slater - Money In The Bank Ladder Match - Money In The Bank 2011
Daniel Bryan vs Heath Slater - Smackdown 22.07.2011

Disc 4
Daniel Bryan vs Tyson Kidd - Smackdown 05.08.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Wade Barrett - Summerslam 2011
Daniel Bryan vs Alberto Del Rio - Smackdown 19.08.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Drew McIntyre - Superstars 25.08.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Christian - Smackdown 26.08.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Heath Slater - Superstars 08.09.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Sin Cara - Smackdown 16.09.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Trent Barretta - Superstars 29.09.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Heath Slater - NXT 05.10.2011

Disc 5
Daniel Bryan vs Mark Henry - Smackdown 04.11.2011
Daniel Bryan vs William Regal - Superstars 10.11.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Mark Henry - Smackdown 11.11.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Cody Rhodes vs Wade Barrett vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 25.11.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Mark Henry - Steel Cage Match - World Heavyweight Championship - Smackdown 29.11.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Cody Rhodes - Smackdown 09.12.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler vs Zack Ryder vs Cody Rhodes - Raw 12.12.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Cody Rhodes - Smackdown 16.12.2011

Disc 6
Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler - Smackdown 23.12.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Big Show - World Heavyweight Championship - Smackdown 06.01.2012
Daniel Bryan vs Big Show - No DQ Match - World Heavyweight Championship - Smackdown 13.01.2012
Daniel Bryan, CM Punk & Chris Jericho vs Dolph Ziggler, Mark Henry & David Otunga - Raw 16.01.2012
Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk - Raw 30.01.2012
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 10.02.2012
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - Smackdown 17.02.2012

Disc 7
Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk - Smackdown 21.02.2012
Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk - Raw 27.02.2012
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 02.03.2012
Daniel Bryan, Mark Henry & Cody Rhodes vs Sheamus, Randy Orton & Big Show - Smackdown 20.04.2012
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - 2/3 Falls - World Heavyweight Championship - Extreme Rules 2012
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - Smackdown 04.05.2012

Disc 8
Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk - WWE Championship - Over The Limit 2012
Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk - Raw 28.05.2012
Daniel Bryan & Dolph Ziggler vs CM Punk & Sheamus - Smackdown 15.06.2012
Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk vs Kane - WWE Championship - No Way Out 2012
Daniel Bryan vs Kane - Smackdown 22.06.2012

Disc 9
Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk - No DQ - Special Guest Referee: AJ - WWE Championship - Money In The Bank 2012
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - Street Fight - Raw 30.07.2012
Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler & The Miz vs Chris Jericho, Christian & Kane - Smackdown 03.08.2012
Daniel Bryan vs John Cena - Raw 06.08.2012
Daniel Bryan & Big Show vs CM Punk & John Cena - Raw 13.08.2012

Disc 10
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 17.08.2012
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - Smackdown 14.09.2012
Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 22.10.2012
Daniel Bryan vs Rey Mysterio - Raw 26.11.2012
Daniel Bryan, Kane & Ryback vs The Shield - TLC Match - TLC 2012
Daniel Bryan & Kane vs Cody Rhodes & Damien Sandow - WWE Tag Team Championships - Main Event 19.12.2012
Daniel Bryan & Kane vs Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara - Smackdown 01.02.2013

Disc 11
Daniel Bryan vs Rey Mysterio - Raw 04.02.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Chris Jericho - Raw 11.02.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Jack Swagger vs Kane vs Mark Henry vs Chris Jericho vs Randy Orton - Elimination Chamber Match - Elimination Chamber 2013
Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 11.03.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 01.04.2013
Daniel Bryan, Undertaker & Kane vs The Shield - Raw 22.04.2013

Disc 12
Daniel Bryan, Kane & John Cena vs The Shield - Raw 29.04.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Ryback - Smackdown 03.05.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Dean Ambrose - Smackdown 10.05.2013
Daniel Bryan, Kane & John Cena vs The Shield - Elimination Match - Raw 13.05.2013
Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston vs The Shield - Raw 20.05.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Jack Swagger - Smackdown 24.05.2013
Daniel Bryan & Kane vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns - WWE Tag Team Championships - Raw 27.05.2013

Disc 13
Daniel Bryan, Kane & Randy Orton vs The Shield - Raw 03.06.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Ryback - Raw 03.06.2013
Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns - Smackdown 07.06.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Seth Rollins - Raw 10.06.2013
Daniel Bryan, Kane & Randy Orton vs The Shield - Smackdown 14.06.2013
Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns - WWE Tag Team Championships - Payback 2013
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 21.06.2013

Disc 14
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - Street Fight - Raw 24.06.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - Raw 08.07.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Christian - Smackdown 12.07.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam vs CM Punk vs Sheamus vs Christian - Money In The Bank Ladder Match - Money In The Bank 2013
Daniel Bryan vs Jack Swagger, Antonio Cesaro & Ryback - Gauntlet Match - Raw 22.07.2013

Disc 15
Daniel Bryan, John Cena & Randy Orton vs The Shield - Raw 05.08.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Wade Barrett - No DQ Match - Smackdown 16.08.2013
Daniel Bryan vs John Cena - WWE Championship - Summerslam 2013
Daniel Bryan vs Wade Barrett - Steel Cage Match - Smackdown 23.08.2013
Daniel Bryan vs The Shield - Gauntlet Match - Raw 26.08.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Seth Rollins - Smackdown 06.09.2013


Disc 16
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - WWE Championship - Night of Champions 2013
Daniel Bryan vs Roman Reigns - Raw 16.09.2013
Daniel Bryan & The Usos vs The Shield - Smackdown 20.09.2013
Daniel Bryan, The Usos, Prime Time Players, Rob Van Dam, Justin Gabriel, Zack Ryder, Kofi Kingston, R-Truth, Dolph Ziggler vs The Shield - Raw 23.09.2013
Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs The Shield - Raw 07.10.2013
Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs The Shield - Smackdown 18.10.2013

Disc 17
Daniel Bryan vs Dean Ambrose - Raw 21.10.2013
Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes, Goldust & Big E Langston vs The Shield & Randy Orton - Smackdown 25.10.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - Hell In A Cell - Special Guest Referee Shawn Michaels - WWE Championship - Hell In A Cell 2013
Daniel Bryan & CM Punk vs The Shield - Raw 11.11.2013
Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Cody Rhodes, Goldust & The Usos vs The Shield & The Wyatt Family - Raw 18.11.2013

Disc 18
Daniel Bryan & CM Punk vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan - Survivor Series 2013
Daniel Bryan vs The The Wyatt Family - TLC 2013
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - Raw 16.12.2013
Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs The Wyatt Family - Raw 23.12.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Luke Harper - Raw 30.12.2013

Disc 19
Daniel Bryan & Bray Wyatt vs The Usos - Steel Cage Match - Raw 13.01.2014
Daniel Bryan vs Bray Wyatt - Royal Rumble 2014
Daniel Bryan, John Cena & Sheamus vs The Shield - Raw 27.01.2014
Daniel Bryan, Sheamus & Rey Mysterio vs The Shield - Smackdown 31.01.2014
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - Raw 03.02.2014

Disc 20
Daniel Bryan vs Antonio Cesaro - Smackdown 07.02.2014
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Sheamus & Christian - Smackdown 14.02.2014
Daniel Bryan vs Christian - Raw 17.02.2014
Daniel Bryan vs Jack Swagger and Daniel Bryan vs Cesaro - Smackdown 21.02.2014
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Cesaro vs Sheamus vs Christian - WWE World Heavyweight Championship - Elimination Chamber - Elimination Chamber 2014

Disc 21
Daniel Bryan vs Kane - Raw 24.02.2014
Daniel Bryan vs Kane - Main Event 04.03.2014
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - No DQ Match - Raw 17.03.2014
Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Wrestlemania 30
BONUS - Daniel Bryan & AJ Lee's Wedding - Raw 23.07.2012

Disc 22
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton vs Batista - WWE World Heavyweight Championship - Wrestlemania 30
BONUS - "The Dress Just Looked So Much Better On The Manachin" - Smackdown 16.03.2012
BONUS - Daniel Bryan Is A Great Lover - Smackdown 23.03.2012
BONUS - Team Hell No Anger Management Skits - Raw 27.08.2012 + 03.09.2012
BONUS - Daniel Bryan & Kane Hug It Out - Raw 03.09.2012
BONUS - Daniel Bryan Is Chosen As The #1 Contender - Raw 15.07.2013
BONUS - Daniel Bryan Occupies Raw - Raw 10.03.2014
BONUS - Daniel Bryan Is WWE World Heavyweight Champion! - Raw 07.04.2014



*WWE - Best of 2014 Vol. 1 (9 Discs)*


Spoiler: listings



Disc 1
Tyson Kidd vs Jack Swagger - Superstars 02.01.2014
CM Punk vs Roman Reigns - Raw 06.01.2014
John Cena vs Damien Sandow - Raw 13.01.2014
Daniel Bryan & Bray Wyatt vs The Usos - Steel Cage Match - Raw 13.01.2014
Adrian Neville vs Tyler Breeze - NXT 15.01.2014
Rey Mysterio vs Alberto Del Rio - Raw 20.01.2014
Daniel Bryan vs Bray Wyatt - Royal Rumble 2014

Disc 2
The Shield vs John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Sheamus - Raw 27.01.2014
Antonio Cesaro vs Dolph Ziggler - Smackdown 31.01.2014
Christian vs Jack Swagger - Smackdown 31.01.2014
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Sheamus & Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 31.01.2014
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - Raw 03.02.2014
Daniel Bryan vs Antonio Cesaro - Smackdown 07.02.2014

Disc 3
Randy Orton vs Christian - Smackdown 07.02.2014
The Wyatt Family vs Cody Rhodes, Goldust & Rey Mysterio - Raw 10.02.2014
Sheamus & Christian vs The Real Americans - Raw 10.02.2014
John Cena vs Randy Orton - Raw 10.02.2014
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Sheamus & Christian - Smackdown 14.02.2014
Randy Orton vs Cesaro - Smackdown 14.02.2014
Daniel Bryan vs Christian - Raw 17.02.2014

Disc 4
John Cena vs Cesaro - Raw 17.02.2014
Daniel Bryan vs Cesaro - Smackdown 21.02.2014
The Wyatt Family vs Goldust, Cody Rhodes & Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 21.02.2014
Sheamus vs Christian - Smackdown 21.02.2014
The Shield vs The Wyatt Family - Elimination Chamber 2014

Disc 5
Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan vs John Cena vs Cesaro vs Sheamus vs Christian - WWE World Heavyweight Championship - Elimination Chamber - Elimination Chamber 2014
Sheamus vs Christian - Raw 24.02.2014
Daniel Bryan vs Kane - Raw 24.02.2014
Cesaro vs Sami Zayn - NXT ArRIVAL

Disc 6
Paige vs Emma - NXT Divas Championship - NXT ArRIVAL
The Shield vs The Wyatt Family - Raw 03.03.2014
Sheamus vs Christian - Raw 03.03.2014
Daniel Bryan vs Kane - Main Event 04.03.2014
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust - Raw 10.03.2014
Sheamus vs Christian - Memphis Street Fight - Raw 10.03.2014
AJ Lee vs Natalya - Divas Championship - Main Event 11.03.2014

Disc 7
Dean Ambrose vs Mark Henry - US Championship - Main Event 11.03.2014
Dolph Ziggler vs Alberto Del Rio - Smackdown 14.03.2014
The Usos vs The Real Americans - Raw 17.03.2014
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - No DQ Match - Raw 17.03.2014
The Real Americans vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust - Main Event 18.03.2014
Sheamus vs Aiden English - NXT 19.03.2014
John Cena vs Luke Harper - Smackdown 21.03.2014
Seth Rollins & Dean Ambrose vs The Real Americans - Raw 24.03.2014

Disc 8
Adrian Neville vs Bo Dallas - NXT Championship - NXT 26.03.2014
Sami Zayn vs Corey Graves - NXT 02.04.2014
The Usos vs Real Americans vs Los Matadores vs Ryback & Curtis Axel - WWE Tag Team Championships - Wrestlemania 30
Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Wrestlemania 30

Disc 9
John Cena vs Bray Wyatt - Wrestlemania 30
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton vs Batista - WWE World Heavyweight Championship - Wrestlemania 30
The Wyatt Family vs John Cena, Sheamus & Big E - Raw 07.04.2014
The Shield vs The Wyatt Family - Main Event 08.04.2014


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I could've enjoyed it... if I actually cared to watch it. Only saw the ending and Ziggler winning. And I only know their TLC 2013 pre-show match was horrible.

Oh God, here's the situation too: what is the Payback Main Event going to be now that Bryan's out until AT LEAST Money In The Bank? Cena/Wyatt LMS? God forbid us all. Shield/Evolution II? Good choice but NEEDS a stip. Nothing fucking else is worth the time. I mean... if they were to make a 3rd Main Event... Stephanie/Brie maybe, if Steph were to do it? Nah, it would be Godawful, Steph wouldn't bother, and it just wouldn't click.

Well at least we ain't getting three straight Extreme Rules rematches.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Shield/Evolution II needs to be No Holds Barred. Also, I don't know why Shield went over at Extreme Rules. WWE's ass-backward booking of making heels chase babyfaces just isn't cutting it.

EDIT: Oh and I can picture Cena/Bray already. It'll turn into a 3 on 1 but that still wouldn't be enough to put Cena down. As for the finish, duct tape.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm at a total loss as to what else worthwhile could be on the Payback card. The only logical matches that makes sense right now are Big E vs. Rusev or Usos vs. Rowan & Harper which is more of a stretch. I thought they _might _do a 4-way for the Intercontinental Title between Barrett, Big E, RVD, and Cesaro but that got scratched last night it seems. What happened to Adam Rose this week? When is AJ Lee gonna be back to face Paige? There's so many guys on the roster who have no direction whatsoever. Rhodes Dynasty, Sandow, Big Show, Mark Henry, Del Rio, Ziggler, etc. Just put them into SOMETHING please. This is the exact time where it's evident to me that unifying the World & WWE Titles was not a good idea. I never thought it was.

Where is Christian?


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*This PPV isn't attracting any extra subscriptions anyway so it's no biggy. Really all they need to do now is make Wrestlemania and Summerslam huge selling points and make sure the others aren't total DUDs. Shield/Evolution II will be enough to get people excited for the show who are capable of getting excited for the show. Plus Cena/Bray is still kinda big to some audiences. Bray goes over btw with Cena protected because it's a gimmick match and Bray will win via some heel shtick (but still obviously not playing a heel ). Pretty much every B PPV has been a 1 or 2 match card in recent memory so it's not a huge issue. Sheamus is still kind of a deal that they can do something with. He'll have a singles match and the only opponent I can see that isn't a GREEK right now is Cesaro so I'm super excited if that happens. It'll be a 2 match card but that's not going against the grain for recent B PPVs.*


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Where the fuck is Mark Henry 

11 months ago the man cut the GOAT promo


----------



## Game1778 (Aug 19, 2004)

Wait Seabs is a girl?! I can't believe it and she looks like a Hollywood actress! Well Seabs I have always liked your posts I can't tell you how many times I wanted to watch a match and you had massive collection on Megaupload before it went down. Thanks and I can see why you kept your gender a secret but it still comes as a surprise. I don't really care that much about the WWE now and even less since Bryan is injured I hope his neck procedure is not too invasive. In the mean time I will just watch old matches.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Rose was at the start of RAW. He came out and interrupted Swagger and Zeb. He stood on the apron, Swagger went for a clothesline but Rose just fell back into his party people group thingy. And I guess that's enough reason to start a feud and most likely Rose vs Swagger is happening at Payback.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:lol what? Seabs isn't a girl. Sillies.



sharkboy22 said:


> Rose was at the start of RAW. He came out and interrupted Swagger and Zeb. He stood on the apron, Swagger went for a clothesline but Rose just fell back into his party people group thingy. And I guess that's enough reason to start a feud and most likely Rose vs Swagger is happening at Payback.


Oh. hahaha. I didn't see or read that. (Y)


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Rose also interrupted Swagger last week on Raw and Main Event.

The match itself could be quite good but not having Rose in action until Payback won't do him any favors.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> :lol what? Seabs isn't a girl. Sillies.
> 
> 
> Oh. hahaha. I didn't see or read that. (Y)


*I actually am mate :$

Rose is gonna flop big time. He's nothing more than an entrance. Once that stops he's pretty bad.*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Where the fuck is Mark Henry
> 
> 11 months ago the man cut the GOAT promo


That was the absolute first thought that popped into my mind when reading Jack Evans post. We need some Henry, and we need him NOW. He's the only main event level talent that can be called upon to help carry a show so devoid of talent.

Put Cesaro, Sheamus, or Ziggler with Henry, give Henry 5 minutes on the mic, then give them 15 minutes in the ring. Boom, problem solved. Henry to the rescue yet again, just like last year at MitB when they needed an opponent for John Boy when everyone else was in the ALLSTAR ladder match.



Game1778 said:


> Wait Seabs is a girl?! I can't believe it and she looks like a Hollywood actress! Well Seabs I have always liked your posts I can't tell you how many times I wanted to watch a match and you had massive collection on Megaupload before it went down. Thanks and I can see why you kept your gender a secret but it still comes as a surprise. I don't really care that much about the WWE now and even less since Bryan is injured I hope his neck procedure is not too invasive. In the mean time I will just watch old matches.


Uh, Seabs is a dude bro. Boy is this awkward :lmao


----------



## Afnorok (May 10, 2014)

Game1778 said:


> Wait Seabs is a girl?! I can't believe it and *she looks like a Hollywood actress*! Well Seabs I have always liked your posts I can't tell you how many times I wanted to watch a match and you had massive collection on Megaupload before it went down. Thanks and I can see why you kept your gender a secret but it still comes as a surprise. I don't really care that much about the WWE now and even less since Bryan is injured I hope his neck procedure is not too invasive. In the mean time I will just watch old matches.


:maury That's because the pic belongs to an actress, jacqueline jossa.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Yeah, what those two above me said. 

Now, I feel awkward. Is there a way we can at least delete his post so it would be like it never existed and we can all pretend we never read it?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I just rewatched Rhodes Bros/Shield BG 2013 and I love that match just so much, its just a tag match worked right, easily the most underrated match of 2013, ****1/4 for it.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Im calling **** 3/4* for the match tonight.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I shat on RAW earlier, but I just re-watched it and liked it much more this time around.

Helps that I could ff past all the crap I didn't care about, and also I was sick yesterday.

Everything still stands as far as them not really pushing stuff forward in a different way, but I still found some things enjoyable that I didn't yesterday.

Liked the first two Shield/Evolution segments, but still think they could've done something more or different with the last segment.

There's a realness to Batista that I like on the mic. Thought he was Godawful when he first returned on the mic, but he's suddenly become much better in that regard. 

He's also doing a good job of selling well for Reigns.

As for selling, something I noticed this time around was that Orton did a great job of selling the Shield as a threat. Really looked like he had second thoughts, and "oh, shit, what did we get out ourselves into" look the whole time at the end of the segment. It was done in a more realistic way than Cena's selling of that type of thing, for instance, which tends to be very OTT and actory. 

Speaking of Cena, I like that he genuinely does try to get the crowd into it, even in throw away six man matches. That seemed the liveliest the crowd was that night. Thought the match was fun, though nothing special. 

Notice that Wyatt called himself the devil in this latest promo, when last week he referred to himself as a God?

Excited that it's a LMS match at Payback, although that ups the excuse for fuckery in a bad way, but whatever.

Still think that Alicia Fox and Lana were great.


Re: *Ambrose vs. Sheamus on Smackdown*, you guys weren't kidding. That was a great watch. It was surprisingly fast-paced. I've ALWAYS loved the way that Ambrose sells those forearm chest shots of Sheamus on the outside of the ropes. He always acts like it's the worst impending doom ever, and Sheamus seems to get a kick out of delivering them to him especially. I've noticed that Ambrose always sells those, even when someone else is on the receiving end of them. He's always on the apron looking like "noooo, don't!" Like a "I know how bad it is thing."

Love those little touches.

I'd say *** 1/2, and if they got more time, it could be really be amazing.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cesaro/Sheamus have a good match, though as usual, it doesn't feel like they have a ton of chemistry... or at least they should have better matches than what they've had. *** for it. Started off good, but it was too much Sheamus dominating for my liking, and the offense wasn't that great. Didn't feel the hate coming from them after the first couple of minutes. I was half-expecting a war based off Sheamus' promo right before the match, and it was very tame. Still, the overall work was good and the two delivered a much better match than any on Raw this week, so that's something. Also I kinda feel like they were just setting up for a PPV match, probably for the US Title, so maybe at that point we'll get something awesome.

But yeah, definitely worth checking out if you're a fan of either guy (and I'm sure everyone in this thread will, if they haven't seen it already).


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Once everyone gets around to Sheamus/Cesaro from Main Event tonight, they're gonna love the shit out of it. Whole package was awesome. We're most definitely in for a rematch sometime soon.

I'm not sure what the hell they're doing with Alicia Fox but it looks like it'll end up Paige vs. Fox for the Divas Title maybe?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'd go ***3/4 for Sheamus/Cesaro, it might get 4 stars if the ending wasnt shit but I understand the motives behind it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cesaro/Sheamus was the greatest thing ever


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

One thing I forgot to say was that I love the way that Ambrose was talking shit at the end of the final Shield/Evolution confrontation. He always does that, but he seemed especially lively last night (also with the "egging on" facial expressions while Reigns was talking).

Someone else touched on this, and I think it's so right...I think that that's the type of character that they should have given to Axel. Like the zany, bratty, little brother type of vibe. I think that would have been so much more the right character for him, and the better fit than what they presented him as. I mean they made him look like a bitch even with Heyman by his side anyway, so why not go the right way it. Maybe could have gotten over with that, because it seems to be more in align with what his real personality is anyway, and the better characters are usually those that are just your real personality exaggerated. 

Oh well.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Heard Cesaro/Sheamus was really good but it had a not so good ending. I'm going to check that shit out when I get the chance.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Heard Cesaro/Sheamus was really good but it had a not so good ending. I'm going to check that shit out when I get the chance.


It was like **** 1/2.*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm overall fine with the ending because it plays into the story of the night and it leads to a rematch, which is muy bueno. Payback maybe?? We shall see.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Wrestlemania XXX (Part Two)
> 
> ...


The bolded is because those were all real-life reactions to legitimate fear of real injury sustained by their opponents. 

I agree that it takes away from the matches from a kayfabe standpoint, but I mean, what can they do when life gets in the way? And in some ways, I felt that it added to the Brock/Taker match, just out of sheer, morbid, fascination from a shoot sense. 

I posted my observations of the shit that went wrong in that match here & here.

But yeah, Brock was randomly staggering like that to try to let Taker buy himself some more time to get himself together. It was a reactionary thing, 'cause there was literally nothing else he could do. He was just standing there like an idiot, 'cause Taker wasn't responding to his "Hells Gate!" calls. Taker could not even get his own upper body up. In my posts, I didn't even notice that Brock was actually calling the "Hells Gate" spot BEFORE he even staggered (I knew that it was supposed to happen then, hence the staggering to kill time, but I didn't know that he actually said it until I just re-watched that part). So Brock had to call that spot twice before Taker could even respond. And then the same inability on Taker's part, when Taker was supposed to apply the Hells Gate the second time.


As for Batista, yeah, that was awkward, but I mean he was genuinely concerned about Randy, and you could tell that he was fearful of even touching him. I guess he could have played to the crowd more, and did an arrogant stroll to kill time or something, but I think that he was just completely caught off guard. Randy popped up, because he was supposed to be up anyway. That accident wasn't supposed to happen. He did still favor his back, which I assume was genuine, due to that being a really nasty accidental hit he took on that tv.


_ETA:_ @ rep - That's weird, the links work for me. Try this:
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/32685209-post2569.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/32690761-post2618.html

I agree with your rep, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The coked out Alicia Fox meltdown happens on Main Event or was that just a mention from last night b/c that stuff was mind-boggling bad TV that it can't be ignored?

RAW was so bad. Thankfully Main Event signed Sheamus vs Cesaro to make nobody care about prior transgressions. It's gotten to the point where the WWE is being carried solely by whatever Sheamus does per week. Only anticipations I have.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

She has another meltdown on Main Event, sadly. They could be using this "rage" for her to actually run through Divas to have another opportunity at Paige, but instead she jobbed to Emma tonight on a flash pin. 

Sorry for spoiling that but it's not much of a spoiler anyway. 

I have no fucking earthly idea what they're trying to accomplish with Sandow either.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah, it's the Divas & not NXT so idc about it being told to me. We're copacetic. Sounds awful, so I have to witness it again. 8*D

Sandow...well, guess they like making jobbers relevant. Dolph had more of a story when he was on a losing streak. Now that he's winning every exhibition match he's in, he's floating around harder than last year.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

They also said on Main Event that they'd announce the fate of the WWE World Title on RAW next week. An obvious statement, but I'm still honestly rather scared. :$



Spoiler: Smackdown spoilers



Cena accepted Bray's challenge so it looks like we're getting Last Man Standing at Payback. Also the Usos were still involved with the Wyatts so it looks like that match is heavily possible too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ugh, NO. Who would have guessed following WM his luck would be the ultimate worst.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I have no fucking earthly idea what they're trying to accomplish with Sandow either.


I don't know whether they're trying to pull a CM Punk 2.0 (which as I mentioned in another thread, probably won't work unless Sandow truly feels he should be at the top like Punk did, and is disgusted by what WWE is doing to him, which based on outside interviews and attitude I don't get from him), or they're mocking Punk using Sandow, or they just figure they're going to use him as a jobber, may as well make it known he is one and maybe try to get some interest around him.

He seemed a bit crazier in his match with Ziggler, so I think they're doing something, but I'm not sure what. I did read the Smackdown spoilers and his part of the show is the only thing I'm probably going to watch. You couple it with Alicia Fox constantly losing and going nuts, I think they're going to do something with the two of them at least. I wouldn't mind a power couple of sorts if they can find some chemistry between them (and of course if they are booked correctly and aren't just booked still losing even after uniting).

TBH though, as I write this, I'm not too sure how they'd mesh together, but at this point, I'd be willing to give anything a chance if it means Sandow is given some opportunity to be pushed up the card. His talent is worthy of the main event, but his booking handcuffs () him and makes him look like a total joke who barely belongs in the mid-card.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

If I think what's going to happen with the WWE WHC is actually going to happen, I'm not going to be a happy camper.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I don't think they're going to strip Bryan of the title unless he's not going to be back for Summerslam, because honestly, who are they going to give it to? I guess they could turn Wyatt vs. Cena into a title match, which I'd be fine with as long as Wyatt wins. Actually, I could really dig that.

Otherwise, not sure who except maybe Cesaro. Everyone else who could maybe get the belts is either pre-occupied with a feud, or a champion already.

But as I said, Bryan will likely remain champion unless he gets told he won't make it back for Summerslam, which can't be top titleless. Payback and MITB? Sure, but not Summerslam.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Santa I think you're getting your hopes up a little too much on that one.  My guess is that since they have nothing better to do and they have time to fill then since Sandow is already a jobber they're just gonna make him a comedic jobber who's gonna keep losing and complaining he's being held back. With Alicia my guess would be that they at least need _something_ "interesting" going on in the Divas division until AJ comes back so they'll just have one of the bitches go crazy for no apparent reason after not even being on TV for like a year then coming back and losing every match.

And like, for real with Bryan. He has the most important week of his entire life, wins the World Title and marries Brie, then shit just got worse and worse from there.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I'm not ready for him to loose the title 

But if he does at least he got to re-gain it in the main event of Wrestle Freaking Mania


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Brie's a curse :bryan2


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> They also said on Main Event that they'd announce the fate of the WWE World Title on RAW next week. An obvious statement, but I'm still honestly rather scared. :$
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Get ready for Cena to overcome those 3 on 1 odds with Cena ending it with one move a la the "I Quit" match vs Miz a couple years ago.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah, it can't be that bad. Bray & the gang don't use cell phones as part of their gimmick. 8*D


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Santa I think you're getting your hopes up a little too much on that one.


Believe me, I _know_ I am.  But in a product that's pretty shitty right now, with only Barrett as IC Champion (which still isn't restored yet and he could still be treated as a jobber like the past several IC Champs have been during their reigns), Wyatt being in a main event level feud with Cena (which will probably just lead to Cena going over, which negates this point), The Shield being featured in a main event level feud (which will probably just lead to primarily the pushing of Roman Reigns into the main event, which is disastrous), and Bryan as champion (which right now doesn't matter as it looks like he's going to be off for a few weeks), I'm looking for anything I can get. And if this tease that they might actually go somewhere with Sandow's losing streak is one of the maybe 2 or 3 things that are dangling in front of me that make me look forward to the future of the business, I'll take it. 

I mean, if I have to sit through another WWE World Title run of HHH, Orton, Batista, Cena, or Sheamus and this Sandow thing goes nowhere, that'd probably be it for me. I came close to quitting on the current product right after Mania got over and done with (despite Bryan winning the title, which I was happy for), but then the Raw after happened, and then I thought the build to ER was pretty good with Bray/Cena, Shield/Evolution, the IC Title Tournament leading to Barrett's win, Cesaro/Swagger with potential Heyman/Colter mic battles (which we only got one of  ), and Bryan/Kane after Kane attacked Bryan, tombstoning him three times in that awesome beatdown.

But with Shield/Evolution losing steam, Bray/Cena getting destroyed after that pitiful cage match, Barrett now as IC Champ and looking at no potential challengers/feuds, Cesaro/Heyman kinda just on auto-pilot right now (perhaps in a feud with Sheamus, but only the feud will probably suck and the match is all to look forward to), and Bryan now out of commission, I'm hanging on by a thread, and that thread is a tease that'll probably go nowhere.

Still, until that snaps, I'll be the sheep that I am.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

That Over The Limit 2011 main event fpalm fpalm fpalm


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I have the PERFECT scenario as to how this could go down. So let's say Stephanie is all ready and willing to strip Bryan of the title due to injury this Monday on RAW, then Brie comes down to the ring and points out that she's been reading the rulebook when it comes to being the WWE Champion. She states the rule where the champion HAS to defend the title every 30 days and THEN he can be stripped if he doesn't do so. Injury or no injury. If you do the math, Bryan's last defense was Sunday May 4th at Extreme Rules, therefore he'd have to defend the title again before June 3rd. 

Picture this scenario, on the edition of RAW the night after Payback, Bryan doesn't show up for the first like 2 and a half hours. Stephanie comes out now 100% ready to strip Bryan of the title... until his music hits! He comes storming to the ring in a neckbrace with Brie trying to hold him back, then he cuts some badass promo about wanting to slay the demon Kane one last time. They have a hellacious match for the main event and Bryan comes out victorious and once again overcomes the odds. Steph is so embarrassed and humiliated by what occurred, so decides to FIRE Kane. Everyone wins.

Thoughts??? Bryan would have like 2 and a half weeks to recover after surgery. :lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

^Maybe the bell just rings, Kane tries to kiss Brie, fails, turns around into a knee to the face, 1-2-3, and everything else plays out as you said. Buys Bryan sometime without him having to do too much. :lol


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

That would be great but honestly I'd like to see him lose that match and win the belt back at one of the next three ppvs. Not lose vs. Kane though. Would go great with the underdog story. Can't win them all.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a much better scenario stemming from when Orton "broke Batista's arm" the night after Extreme Rules 2009, and then Triple H showed up to make sure Orton wouldn't become WWE Champion off a forfeit as Batista had the entire show to show up, etc._ (I can't forget very bad stuff like this)_


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

If I kept brainstorming through this, the next week Stephanie could order Bryan to wrestle but they could use an angle where Bryan wrestled the match the prior week without the doctor's consent so he isn't even medically cleared to wrestle yet. Then for the next few weeks they could have a #1 contender's tournament to determine who would challenge Bryan for the belt at Battleground, which is presumably when Bryan would be medically cleared. Fresh off all these feuds that have been going on for a while, we could have frankly anyone win the tourney. Hunter, Batista, Orton, Reigns, Cena, Wyatt, Cesaro, etc.

Seriously, someone send this shit to Vince. Get me a job! :lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Wait, when's Battleground? It's not an October PPV this year?

And I thought MITB was the next PPV after Payback?

Jeez, I'm out of the PPV dates loop. <_<


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

They moved Battleground back to the end of June. It's in between Payback and MITB.

WWE.com is advertising that Sheamus/Cesaro from Main Event tonight was for the U.S. Title. I don't recall hearing that at all. 

EDIT: Wait, I'm wrong. It goes Payback, MITB, then Battleground, then finally Summerslam. Jesus this is mixed up every year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It changes every year in some capacity, so it's a drop in the bucket. Point being, they're all mostly B-level shows that can be interchangeable w/their PPV titles.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Clash of the Champions V

The In Your House shows were starting to get tedious so I switched things up to WCW in 1989. The Clash shows being up really have me looking forward to this. 


*The Russian Assassins w/Paul Jones vs.The Midnight Express w/Jim Cornette 
*
This is one the strangest things I’ve come across on the Network. So the match starts and it’s boring as shit. Cornette is s unnatural as a heel and other than being Russian the Assassins are devoid of any character of personality. They’re supposed to be these big and powerful Russians but they just do bodyslams. Anyway they spend approximately 4 days isolating Stan Lane and then he makes the hot tag. Paul Heyman is on commentary talking about a match his team has with them soon and as soon as the hot tag is made he says that he doesn’t need to see anymore. He doesn’t see any more and we don’t get to see any more either as they cut away from the match… So I watched a boring match and didn’t even get to see the ending?
*DUD*


Holy shit is Ricky Steamboat bad at cutting promos. Thankfully is just incredible in the ring.


*Butch Reed vs. Steve Casey *

On the surface this looked like it was going to be a quick squash. It was OK at first where Casey, the “young” unknown was holding his own for a while. But after 5 minutes I was tired of the wrist locks. In fact the entire match seemed to be an exchange of wrist locks. Maybe at some point it did get good for a while but I at some point I fell asleep for a few minutes so I did miss a littl. I can’t imagine that I missed much. In my half awake state I was pretty happy when this finally ended.
*DUD*


*The Blackmailer vs. Lex Luger*

Holy fuck. If this is what they would regularly put on TV I don’t understand how anyone would ever want to watch wrestling again. The whole point of this is to make the star look good but Luger just locks in a headlock for the first 5-10 minutes of the match. The last few were OK once Blackmailer got some offense in and Luger started doing some offense that wasn’t a haedlock but 4 minutes of being passable does not make up for how horrible the rest of this was.
*½* *


_United States Tag Team Championship:_
*The Varsity Club w/Kevin Sullivan vs. The Fantastics*

Finally something that didn’t suck. I won’t call this a great match but it was pretty fun as the cat/mouse dynamic worked really well. Rotunda and Williams looked huge compared to the Fantastics and the worked like they were much bigger. The Fantastics portray themselves as high flyers but they really don’t fly around that much and when they do it doesn’t look great. I know the time period that this match took place but that doesn’t change the fact that I feel like there are a lot of guys that could have been better Fantastics than the Fantastics. Still they put together a solid and fun match. It seemed like the greatest thing ever after the shit I had previously been forced to watch.
***¾ *


*Bob Bradley vs. Ricky Steamboa*t 

This was a squash and it wasn’t very competitive but at least it was a showcase of Steamboat. He didn’t just lock in a headlock for the entire match like Luger did. I guess if I saw this on TV I would want to see a more competitive Steamboat match. It was also how amusing it was that Steamboat wasn’t over at all. I’m pretty sure the fans still didn’t like him after the terrible promos he was cutting.
**¼ *


*Rip Morgan vs. Rick Steiner*

Another match that wasn’t very competitive and not very good. The crowd liked Steiner a lot and some of his offense was kind of fun. Morgan was interesting because he seemed to be going for a character similar to Steiner. Not the worst thing ever for a 4 minute match but this wasn’t what I wanted to see.
*¾* *


_NWA 6-Man Tag Team Championship Match:_
*The Road Warriors and Tenryu(c) vs. The Varsity Club*

Kevin Sullivan locked Michael Hayes, Sting, and JYD in their locker room so apparently they just got to take their spot. It appears that the whole point of all of this was so that they could injure Animal’s arm in preparation for their tag match together a few days later. It was a good start of a match but once Sting and friends broke free they ran into the ring and ruined the match. I was really hoping for a quality main event too.
**1/2*​

This was pretty much the worst thing ever. I feel like I should get a free month to the Network for having to watch this. I just kept hoping it would get better and it never did. At least one match was decent… Find a better way to spend 2 hours.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao :ti :lol I remember watching COTC V and dreading it. The highlight of the show was Ric Flair making sexist jokes. Thankfully we get the greatest match ever on the next show, but wow. I don't even think Over the Limit 2011 was as bad as COTC V. Then again, I liked Mysterio/Truth from OTL 2011 :side:

To wash off the pain of the 1980s that mainstream wrestling brought during that period, this should be watched:






If you guys want a Magnum TA recommendation that isn't that same old match everyone talks about, here it is.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Every Magnum TA match is worth a rec.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

How was Cena/Rollins from earlier this year/late last year??


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Great. Def should be seen.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That match rules but isn't even the best Magnum v. DiBiase that day.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Watched every MitB match today. From best to worst:

1. WM 21
2. MitB 2011 SD! 
3. MitB 2013 RAW All-Stars
4. WM 24
5. WM 22
6. MitB 2013 SD!
7. WM 26
8. WM 23
9. MitB 2012 SD!
10. WM 25
11. MitB 2011 RAW
12. MitB 2012 RAW
13. MitB 2010 SD!
14. MitB 2010 RAW

RAW All-Stars would've been the top if it had not been for that ridiculously stupid Heyman tongue lashing on Axel. Honestly, one of the dumbest things I've seen in wrestling.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Wait, how did the Axel/Heyman relationship separate? I never saw the end to that.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Axel and Ryback kinda just declared at the same time that they weren't Heyman guys, and that was that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep.

Seriously, he's exactly spot on.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

haha if those jobbers quit Heyman, why would a top guy like Cesaro or Brock be the least bit interested?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Anti-climatic ending to a well................ underwhelming pair. Quite fitting If you ask me. Anyways-

Cena/Rollins (The opening sequence was great, after being outplayed/maneuvered/wrestled, rather than Rollins just circling the ring and eyeballing his opponent in typical fashion, his group members calm and advise him, Lo and behold, we then have a slow, methodical control segment on our hands, opposite to Rollins' style of high pacing and more like an Ambrose type thing. Rollins' did provide an exceptional platform for a Cena comeback to arise, his basking in the negativity from the crowd was shown through facial expressions and resulted in clear boos (audience was pro-Cena), WWE's camera work was on point here. In the latter parts, Rollins' whipped out the high impact moves he's so famous for and Cena's being pretty quick and similar, it kept the tone for the rest of the match. As for the finish, I didn't think Rollins' crossbody had enough power behind it for Cena to be knocked down and then regain for the FU, I don't want to fault Cena as he was excellent throughout but he really could've moved back a bit for Rollins' to catch some momentum off the leap. Small faults like this don't really bring down the overall quality for me, bug me- they do and thus worth mentioning. The prior interference/ring side brawl between all members brought the crowd to frenzy and allowed the decisive pin to receive a better reaction. ***3/4)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nice stuff, chief.

There was one specific Rollins counter that I'm drawing a total blank on atm. But I wanted to bring it up b/c it's the tits. I should just watch the match again to relive it. 8*D


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Cena trying to slam Rollins while he was on the ropes, only for the latter to land on his feet and catch Cena with a swift kick. Yep, that was truly the tits.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, that's probably the moment. Thought it was one of his ever great, flashy kick counters.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Cesaro/Sheamus have a good match, though as usual, it doesn't feel like they have a ton of chemistry... or at least they should have better matches than what they've had.


I wouldn't necessarily say it's that, considering both appear to be the easiest guys in the company to work with (and were matching up swell in January/February through multi-mans). It's rather they went out and wrestled a teaser match, with too much time, and had to purposefully keep things restrained as to highlight their next encounter (one I assume to be at PPV). They had some great ideas, here, with some nifty counters, but I'd agree about the offence feeling lighter than it should have been. The match never felt fleshed out, enough, and definitely lacked Cesaro's typical big-offence spots which leads me to assume a follow-up ender, but I've learnt not to get too high with my hopes as of late.

Okayish match, that needed far less time and heavier bombs. The trail of disappointment continues.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah, don't crush my soul like this.

deja vu _(nevermind, that was ol Cemento, iirc)_


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Do you draw similarities between Seth Rollins and Jeff Hardy in the ring? I personally think they're not that similar at all, outsiders (the forum) seem to think otherwise. @Hayley


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've never saw it, personally. But I think what most are getting it at is the similar vibe, more than outright style of work in the ring. Able to be a plucky babyface, has that modern day "hard rock/metal" look & feel about them, flashy ring work that does contain substance. Stuff like that. Also charisma just oozing off of them despite _(then)_ not being the best mic workers around. Another drawn up similarity. To where they just got over via their aura & connection w/the fans more than relying on some prototypical assets needs in the American wrestling market.

b/c once you watch their matches and go to take notice, they really aren't too similar pardon the details that I listed. And all of that could be one's decent perception at best. And to be filled out w/some others to try their craft too. Black/Rollins is much more, uhh, what's a proper word here...drawing a blank. But he's more strike oriented & "smash mouth" w/his offense than Hardy is. Where has Hardy is pure babyface in his offense to a T. _(if you can understand my gist of a slightly vague term)_


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I've never saw it, personally. But I think what most are getting it at is the similar vibe, more than outright style of work in the ring. Able to be a plucky babyface, has that modern day "hard rock/metal" look & feel about them, flashy ring work that does contain substance. Stuff like that. Also charisma just oozing off of them despite _(then)_ not being the best mic workers around. Another drawn up similarity. To where they just got over via their aura & connection w/the fans more than relying on some prototypical assets needs in the American wrestling market.
> 
> b/c once you watch their matches and go to take notice, they really aren't too similar pardon the details that I listed. And all of that could be one's decent perception at best. And to be filled out w/some others to try their craft too. Black/Rollins is much more, uhh, what's a proper word here...drawing a blank. But he's more strike oriented & "smash mouth" w/his offense than Hardy is. Where has Hardy is pure babyface in his offense to a T. _(if you can understand my gist of a slightly vague term)_


I completely agree with what you're saying. I think most fans have this preconceived notion that If one has a similar look/representation and resembles another's character, that they will have a similar style and process of performance, specifically ring work, thus polluting the minds of many and making them believe so as it looks that way superficially (representation/looks/vibe rather than style).


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Hardy/Rollins comparison comes purely from the fact that both use risk taking aerial offense and take nutty bumps/do crazy high spots. That's where it starts and ends. Seth is a far better worker than Jeff ever was. Much more substance and quality to his in-ring game than Hardy's.

Matt > Jeff btw. Just felt like saying that.

About to watch Rhodes Bros/Real Americans from Main Event.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Benoit vs Regal from Vengeance 06 is left off the ppv on the Network. Makes me a sad panda.



> The Hardy/Rollins comparison comes purely from the fact that both use risk taking aerial offense and take nutty bumps/do crazy high spots. That's where it starts and ends. Seth is a far better worker than Jeff ever was. Much more substance and quality to his in-ring game than Hardy's.


Seen this a lot the last two days. Pretty ridiculous.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Rhodes Bros/Real Americans was really, really good. Not sure why it hasn't been talked about more. Probably flew under the radar because it was on Main Event. Better than the match they had on Raw for sure. Still think I prefer the Real Americans tag against Christian and Sheamus but this was high level 2v2 work. 



Spoiler: updated list



1. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Elimination Chamber (2/23/14)
2. Cesaro v Sami Zayn - NXT ArRIVAL (2/27/14)
3. Evolution v The Shield - Extreme Rules (5/4/14)
4. Daniel Bryan v Triple H - WrestleMania XXX (4/6/14)
5. Bray Wyatt v Daniel Bryan - Royal Rumble (1/26/14)
6. Randy Orton v Batista v Daniel Bryan - WrestleMania XXX (4/6/14)
7. Cesaro v John Cena - Raw (2/17/14)
8. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Main Event (4/8/14)
9. Bray Wyatt v John Cena - WrestleMania XXX (4/6/14)
10. Randy Orton v Cesaro v Christian v Daniel Bryan v John Cena v Sheamus - Elimination Chamber (2/23/14)
11. Daniel Bryan v Randy Orton - Raw (2/3/14)
12. Corey Graves v Sami Zayn - NXT (4/3/14)
13. Christian & Sheamus v The Real Americans - Raw (2/10/14)
14. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Raw (3/3/14)
15. The Real Americans v The Rhodes Brothers - Main Event (3/18/14)
16. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Raw (5/5/14)
17.
18.
19.
20.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Seemed like 85% of the posts praising Shield/Evolution right after it happened were like ''Rollins > Jeff Hardy'', which was odd to me because it felt like such a random thing to bring up.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I liked Cesaro/Sheamus , simple structure and a pretty good slugfest . It did feel as if it was the first match of a feud which is good . They will probably go on to have more of a wrestling match in the others. I"d still have their other main event match over it but this was a pretty good little match



Edit: :lol I was puzzled by that to, after the mstches I saw so many Rollins >> Hardy and " Can we all agree Rollins >> Hardy which is pretty random


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

bigbuxxx said:


> Benoit vs Regal from Vengeance 06 is left off the ppv on the Network. Makes me a sad panda.


They didn't have a match at Vengeance 06 .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Bryan Danielson on the new Jericho Podcast!

http://www.podcastone.com/Talk-Is-Jericho


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> They didn't have a match at Vengeance 06 .


Explains a lot. Which ppv was their match at?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

No Mercy 2006. The one where Regal is fucked over all night, I believe Hornswoggle gets one over on him in a backstage segment. :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Rhodes Bros/Real Americans was really, really good. Not sure why it hasn't been talked about more. Probably flew under the radar because it was on Main Event. Better than the match they had on Raw for sure. Still think I prefer the Real Americans tag against Christian and Sheamus but this was high level 2v2 work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have you seen Shield vs. Real Americans from Raw 3/24? Personally, even though it's shorter, I think it's better than Americans/Rhodes, which I still think it's awesome though.

I decided to rewatch Sheamus/Ambrose again, and not only did I return it to my original ***1/2 rating, I also thought it was better than in first watch. Simply put, Ambrose's babyface work is absolutely titties (master). And even though he wasn't a heel as much as he should've, Sheamus still kicked ass. And the ending... man the ending. What a match. Best United States Title match in... what the hell, YEARS. Probably since Miz/Bryan NOC.

My current top 30 matches of the year:


Spoiler: my list



(****3/4)
Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn, NXT Arrival
(****1/2)
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Elimination Chamber
Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan, WrestleMania 30
(****1/4)
John Cena vs. Cesaro, Raw 2/17
The Shield vs. Evolution, Extreme Rules
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Main Event 4/8
(****)
Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt, Royal Rumble
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Batista, WrestleMania 30
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Raw 5/5
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Raw 3/3
Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus vs. Christian vs. Cesaro, Elimination Chamber
(***3/4)
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Raw 2/3
Daniel Bryan vs. Kane, Extreme Rules
30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble
John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt, WrestleMania 30
Randy Orton vs. Cesaro, Smackdown 2/14
(***1/2)
Sheamus vs. Bad News Barrett, Raw 4/21
Daniel Bryan vs. Cesaro, Smackdown 2/21
The Shield vs. The Real Americans, Raw 3/24
The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Main Event 3/18
The Shield vs. John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Sheamus, Raw 1/27
Sheamus & Christian vs. The Real Americans, 2/10
Big E, John Cena & Sheamus vs. The Wyatt Family, Raw 4/7
Sheamus vs. Dean Ambrose, Smackdown 5/9
The Rhodes Brothers vs. The Wyatt Family, Smackdown 1/3
Corey Graves vs. Sami Zayn, NXT 4/3
Paige vs. Emma, NXT Arrival
Sheamus vs. Christian, Smackdown 2/21
Daniel Bryan vs. Alberto Del Rio, Raw 5/5
Jack Swagger vs. Cesaro, Smackdown 4/25


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watching the interactions between Triple H and Seth Rollins reminded me a lot of the old Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy matches. Rollins' body language and selling is reminiscent of Jeff, which is why I believe I brought Jeff up in the first place.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Dyed hair, hard Rock image, high risk/aerial offense, nutty/sick bumps, and being a feisty under dog type face, like many have said, are really the only similarities I see between the two. On the surface that seems like a lot, but when you really get down to the meat of it, they aren't really THAT similar at all. As someone said, Rollins works with a lot stiffer, strike based style and he's also proven to be a great, sneaky little shit heel. Rollins also never bores me when he's in control, another plus to his overall work.

I think Rollins is more similar in wrestling style to say, Danielson in the WWE than he is to Jeff Hardy. And Rollins isn't even that similar to Bryan, so that's really my point. He's definitely an original and I think unless a guy is a blatant rip off of another guy, it's doing both a disservice to compare one great wrestler to another.

That's like comparing ADR to Eddie because they both have Mexican heritage and both drove fancy cars to the ring. Or comparing Sin Cara to Rey because both wear masks and have a high flying style. Both those comparisons are utter bullshit, and I think the same can be said for comparing Rollins to another guy. He's definitely his own dude.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Question: has anyone watched the BRILLIANCE that is Rock N'Roll Express/Heavenly Bodies from Survivor Series 1993? It's quite awesome. Old school tag at its finest, and indeed Ricky Morton is a fucking beast playing a face-in-peril. Quite the gem, ***1/2 for it. Too bad the crowd kinda sucked.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ATF said:


> Have you seen Shield vs. Real Americans from Raw 3/24? Personally, even though it's shorter, I think it's better than Americans/Rhodes, which I still think it's awesome though.
> 
> I decided to rewatch Sheamus/Ambrose again, and not only did I return it to my original ***1/2 rating, I also thought it was better than in first watch. Simply put, Ambrose's babyface work is absolutely titties (master). And even though he wasn't a heel as much as he should've, Sheamus still kicked ass. And the ending... man the ending. What a match. Best United States Title match in... what the hell, YEARS. Probably since Miz/Bryan NOC.
> 
> ...


Yeah I saw that. Thought it was good but not as good as Rhodes Bros/Real Americans.

Still haven't seen Swagger/Cesaro. Should get on that. And Sheamus/Cesaro. I don't care if it was only a build up match for a bigger match between the two in the future. It's Sheamus and Cesaro. Definitely disagree with whoever said they don't have good chemistry. Their matches last year on Main Event and SmackDown OWNED.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

No the match is awesome, doesnt matter if it is a grudge match or feud advancer


Need something too watch


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@NAITCH, the match I mentioned up there, Rock N' Roll Express vs Heavenly Bodies from Survivor Series '93


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

NAITCH said:


> Need something too watch










The rematch.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HHH/Khali SummerSlam '08. No joke. It's good.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I'll give all these a watch as I'm off of work today (Seen HHH/Khail before) , need to see Sheamus/Ambrose as well


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Turn Mark Henry heel and put the WWE title on him for a couple months. Just until like Summerslam or so....it would be great and hearing an interview with Henry last year about how badly he wanted to win the title someday and all the dues he has paid I'd love to see this happen. Fuck it should have happened at MitB last summer after that retirement angle. I'd love to see a lengthy Henry heel title run but he probably won't hold up.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Turn Mark Henry heel and put the WWE title on him for a couple months. Just until like Summerslam or so....it would be great and hearing an interview with Henry last year about how badly he wanted to win the title someday and all the dues he has paid I'd love to see this happen. Fuck it should have happened at MitB last summer after that retirement angle. I'd love to see a lengthy Henry heel title run but he probably won't hold up.


Henry wouldn't make it to Summerslam if they put the title on him. Dude gets injured ALL the time. He got injured again right after that match with Cena at MITB so there was no point in him winning the title then. I'm a big Christian mark but I think he should just retire at this point, because like Henry, he can't go two minutes without getting injured. He's too unreliable now in WWE's eyes and those who always say: ''why don't they do something with Henry'' need to understand this.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> Henry wouldn't make it to Summerslam if they put the title on him. Dude gets injured ALL the time. He got injured again right after that match with Cena at MITB so there was no point in him winning the title then. I'm a big Christian mark but I think he should just retire at this point, because like Henry, he can't go two minutes without getting injured. He's too unreliable now in WWE's eyes and those who always say: ''why don't they do something with Henry'' need to understand this.



I dont really agree with that. Henry gets injured, so does Orton, Hunter, Punk, Cena, etc. Most wrestlers his age have spent a good bit of time on the injured list. Doesn't mean you should do NOTHING with him. And the upside with Henry is so high that you just have to roll the dice sometimes. Just put him with smaller guys so Henry isn't the one bumping around, and I don't see why it would be a problem. When Henry has been hurt it's mostly been cause he was bumping around like a Cruiserweight for another big guy like Show or cause of a freak occurrence. They obviously have a need for him, or else they wouldn't have just signed him to a 3 year contract. My question has been, why did they sign him to a big 3 year deal just to do nothing with him?

Should they put the title on him? I don't know, but I'm betting I'm not the only one who would rather see a Henry title run over another Cena, Orton, or Batista run. Danielson is the rightful champ, I'd rather they didn't strip him and just figured a work around. But if they are determined to go that route and have an interim champ, I can't think of a more deserving guy than Mark.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> Henry wouldn't make it to Summerslam if they put the title on him. Dude gets injured ALL the time. He got injured again right after that match with Cena at MITB so there was no point in him winning the title then. I'm a big Christian mark but I think he should just retire at this point, because like Henry, he can't go two minutes without getting injured. He's too unreliable now in WWE's eyes and those who always say: ''why don't they do something with Henry'' need to understand this.


You are probably right (Henry wouldn't make it to Summerslam) unless he was protected some. Like a lot of six man tags, no house shows, etc. I totally get what you are saying too. I'm just kinda unclear what they will do now with :yes out for a bit. Thought heel Henry would be a good idea in the title picture but agreed it has its pros and cons. 

Retirement should definitely be on the horizon for Henry and Christian. Mysterio as well.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Christian, Henry and Rey all retiring is going to break me. The feels will be off the charts :jose


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Watched Sheamus/Cesaro...good shit. ***1/2. Surely there'll be a rematch at Payback, right? And with Bryan out, opens up a slot on the card for another match to go 20 minutes. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> The rematch.


OMG


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

They should let Christian, Henry, and Mysterio be a tag team and work under the Freebird rules to account for one of them always being injured.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TaylorFitz said:


> They should let Christian, Henry, and Mysterio be a tag team and work under the Freebird rules to account for one of them always being injured.


:lmao

In all seriousness though, I'd love to see Bryan take the title back from Henry in a classic match. I don't want Bryan to get stripped of the belt, it would break my heart. The only way I could stomach it is it it was just won by Henry for a short interim run while Bryan heals, then a fired up Danielson could return and take it BACK from Mark in a classic match at Summerslam.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Nostalgia said:


> Henry wouldn't make it to Summerslam if they put the title on him. Dude gets injured ALL the time.


As the biggest Mark Henry fan on this board, I nodded in agreement with this. :lmao


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> :lmao
> 
> In all seriousness though, I'd love to see Bryan take the title back from Henry in a classic match. I don't want Bryan to get stripped of the belt, it would break my heart. The only way I could stomach it is it it was just won by Henry for a short interim run while Bryan heals, then a fired up Danielson could return and take it BACK from Mark in a classic match at Summerslam.


I would love to see a face Bryan vs. heel Henry. I know they did that in their cage match on a Christmas Smackdown (which as pretty great) but I feel like it would be even better with a super over Bryan. 

All I really want to see from Bryan is for him to have a match like what he did with Morishima in ROH. They have a lot of talented big guys that could pull it off and I think it's safe to say that Bryan is better now than he was then.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> As the biggest Mark Henry fan on this board, I nodded in agreement with this. :lmao


What are you talking about? I'm the bigger Mark Henry mark! And speaking as the biggest Mark Henry mark around these confines, he really shouldn't be WWE WHC. Not only does he probably not want a title reign, but he is more injury prone than anyone on that list cjack put up. On top of that, having Bryan get his revenge on Henry after coming back from surgery makes as much sense as watching a Kofi Kingston match over a Brett Sawyer classic. Maybe a Henry heel turn and title feud would be the course of action, but people will feel like it's just a rehash of last year's greatness. Let Henry turn heel, but let him be one of those guys that creates big feuds without the need of a title. Dude can put over up and coming faces like crazy. Just imagine Sami Zayn vs. Mark Henry :mark:

Speaking of Brett Sawyer, anyone here watch a lot of Portland/Northwest territory wrestling? I've heard that in the late 70s, it was the best place in the world for wrestling.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TaylorFitz said:


> I would love to see a face Bryan vs. heel Henry. I know they did that in their cage match on a Christmas Smackdown (which as pretty great) but I feel like it would be even better with a super over Bryan.
> 
> All I really want to see from Bryan is for him to have a match like what he did with Morishima in ROH. They have a lot of talented big guys that could pull it off and I think it's safe to say that Bryan is better now than he was then.



Funny you said that, because while Henry is an entirely different sort of wrestler than Shima, I think you're spot on with wanting that STYLE of match on the WWE stage, and I believe Henry is really the only guy capable of giving Bryan a match like that on the current roster.

It's not like Henry is a glass doll. If they put the belt on him, they can just protect him by having him work tags at house shows and then have him work smaller guys on TV until Bryan is ready to come and take the belt back. Henry can have awesome big man/little man matches without bumping around and risking injury.

When life gives you lemons (Danielson getting injured) why not make lemonade? Giving Henry a well deserved 2 month WWE WHC title run that culminates in Bryan winning the strap back in glorious fashion is about the best possible outcome from such a shitty scenario.

That is....unless WWE wants to throw a shit load of cash at Brock, have him win the belt, then carry it all the way til WM 31. But that shit just ain't happening.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah no Henry with the belt plz, its just not smart business wise when he gets injured and now its just all blowing up in your face 

I have no fucking clue who their going to put the title on tbh, hopefully not Batista, I would be up for HHH to take the straps just to see the rage on this board


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm sure they'll have a tournament for the title until payback where the championship match takes place. Don't know who will be the final 2 at all though.

Maybe Kane/Cesaro? I don't fucking know lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Funny you said that, because while Henry is an entirely different sort of wrestler than Shima, I think you're spot on with wanting that STYLE of match on the WWE stage, and I believe Henry is really the only guy capable of giving Bryan a match like that on the current roster.
> 
> It's not like Henry is a glass doll. If they put the belt on him, they can just protect him by having him work tags at house shows and then have him work smaller guys on TV until Bryan is ready to come and take the belt back. Henry can have awesome big man/little man matches without bumping around and risking injury.
> 
> ...


You're underestimating just how fragile Henry has been his entire life. For all we know, he's injured right now as we speak like always. He is a glass doll. And if you have to protect a champion that much, then it's probably not worth it. Henry can have awesome big man/little man matches with either a lesser title, or with no title at all. And Lesnar holding the title until Wrestlemania while doing either fuck-all, or getting paid more than his worth is not going to happen. Honestly, I wouldn't mind it if Bryan just holds on to the title so long as he returns by Money in the Bank.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I want Henry to be world champion again more than anybody on Earth and I will go ballistic if he actually wins the belt, but I can't get mad at anybody in the WWE for not pushing him. His body is unreliable. They should use this Danielson injury time to build up Cesaro and give him the title. Cesaro v. Bryan can happen somewhere later and be awesome.


also please for the love god keep kane out of this, WWE.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You didn't even watch most of Mark Henry's WHC reign.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've got literally every match of Henry's 2011 I could find burnt onto DVD including house shows. :lmao I think I have one house show tag to watch, and that tag near the end of the year w/Cena/Miz....some others.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

I hope they let Bryan keep the title, fix the midcard and in essence make the IC title important again.
Most likely they'll do a tournament featuring wrestlers who've been doing nothing of worth.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Cena vs Henry a few weeks before WM28 is solid, ***1/4.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Where'd all this talk of Henry getting the Title come from? That's obviously not happening... like ever, unfortunately. 

------------------------

Watched a Raw from September 6, 1996 last night. Seriously entertaining and fascinating episode to watch. I was SHOCKED by how insanely over Psycho Sid was at the time. The fans went nuts during his match. It was also very ironic to hear JR call Hunter Hearst Helmsley a "cerebral athlete" long before he coined the term. Mark Henry was first starting up with the company and his promo skills were WAY better than what they should've been. I was impressed. Bob Backlund joined forces with his former arch enemy Iron Sheik and Shawn Michaels had a pretty good main event WWF Championship match against Goldust. Shame we missed half the match due to commercials. Looked to have been really solid. It was so cool because you could tell almost everyone on the show had a sense of direction and they were all part of a current storyline. It was so easy to follow. Oh when times were easier...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Went on a decent WWE network random haul today. Watched most of CLASH XI. On the main event - Flair vs JYD - atm. Another successful event. Why are these better than the PPVs? It's counterproductive. Most of the roster is better in sprints. Or at least for how some choose to work their matches, that's the case. Midnights vs RnR has another chapter on this show, and of course, it's the best thing going. MEAN MARK works vs Pillman in a match I honestly never knew happened. And it's good. Short, but they crammed in a bunch of goodies like Taker being all super agile. Plus, Pillman's uber sick _"i'm gonna throw my whole face/jaw into the guardrail b/c I'm a loose cannon"_ spot. Arn & Orndorff had a good rasslin contest. Crowd blew up for Orndorff at the end. Pretty cool b/c I believe that was kind of his essential "try out" match to let WCW know if he should have a job full time. He won 'em over & would stay in some capacity till the company died. Windham vs Furnas was nutty. Two of the sickest lariats ever in that match. Plenty of other fun stuff too. Oh, Steiners vs Doom III = success. Not as good as their first match, but better than the second. Looking forward to the main event b/c as per w/the quality of this show, I like to hope it delivers.

Random WWE stuff I checked out was yesterday's Main Event: Sheamus vs Cesaro was good. But yeah, you can tell there was the aspect of holding just a little bit back. Mostly on Cesaro's end. He didn't phone it in, but there's much more he has to offer. Still good though. And I liked the booking for the finish. However, it better lead to something. It's a nice start off program, so they're better off making it happen for the PPV. what in the world does this company have for either guy atm? Exactly. Whomever chimed in that these two don't have good chemistry w/each other is flat out bonkers aka I disagree. When this is their weakest by sheer proxy, they're doing mighty fine.

Checked out the Sheamus vs Cesaro match from 6/14/13 after this and it's still a hell of a sprint. Oof. Beating the tar out of each other & all that general greatness. Shield's first loss was the main event on the same event so of course I had to see that. God damn I still got goosebumps. Really great tag match. Danielson was already the hottest guy in the company by this point. 8/2/13: CM Punk vs Fandango got a mild bit of praise but I never liked it so I tried it one more time. Still weak. Punk totally doesn't give a damn & Fandango gets exposed at not being a guy to carry a match in the slightest. Punches, rest hold, repeat. Christian vs RVD vs Orton was the main event, so again, same philosophy. Remembered liking this a lot, but it's not good. It's all moves-y like most triple threat matches. Not "awful", but def below average TV fodder. No harm done; although nothing to bring up again. Good Christian win, however. That was a nice rub. Felt like things mattered for him around this time.

Oh the RAW side I slammed through Danielson vs Ambrose - which was solid, but it lacked a real connection from me. Weakest singles match Danielson ever had vs a Shield member - & Goldust vs Orton from 9/9/13. The latter of which more than holds up. Great match. Goldust was as natural as ever & Orton shows why I can enjoy him when his heel work just leaps off of him in a natural matter too. Nothing was tryhard or contrived on his end. Always good to see. Goldust's punches & use of the Crossrhodes for the near fall in the end. Brilliant.

So yeah. Felt like saying this. 8*D


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Was Flair/JYD the one match where JYD no sells everything Flair does and then the Horsemen attack? Granted, that sounds like nearly every Horsemen or every JYD match, but I remember that show having a bunch of really nice tag matches. The best one being Steiners/Doom.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dunno. Haven't watched yet. You seem to claim everyone no sells so I'm gonna ignore it anyways.

Steiners vs Doom was quite swell. Nothing close to Midnights vs RnR though. Which was cooking on all cylinders, as usual. Other tags were Southern Boys vs Freebirds _(which was good)_ & Samoan Swat Team vs Captain Mike Rotunda & Z-Man _(which was solid, but had a chuckle-worthy ending)_


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Not my fault that Hogan and Vader forgot how to wrestle.


----------



## fastfrosty (Jan 21, 2013)

http://wweo.net/?movie=/info/3994/the-sheik-(2014)---documentary
Iron Sheik documentary made this last month 
Amazing story


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Next month, to celebrate Summer break for myself, I'll start posting a whole new GIANT project - ranking every single Match Of The Night in a PPV EVAH. And yes, that will count Payback's


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

May have found my first official gem from the NETWORK:

*WWF Championship - Desert Storm Match*
Hulk Hogan (c) vs. Sgt. Slaughter (_MSG June 3, 1991_)

This match is contested under "Desert Storm Rules" which essentially means there are no rules. The only way to win is by unconditional surrender. The ref is only there for a submission or if someone quits. This is pretty awesome from the opening bell. Hogan is dressed in all camo with a gas mask and he immediately tricks Slaughter by throwing the belt in the ring to distract him, then tossing powder in his face to start the match. From there it's an absolute beatdown as Hogan uses everything he can get his hands on to inflict punishment on the Sarge. Hell of a bladejob too. Awesome sight as he drags him to the outside and you can see blood drip all over the apron and announcer's table. Slaughter eventually makes a comeback but he really never puts forth the beating that he withstood in the early stages, so the match kinda feels one sided at times. There's some hilarious moments where Sarge sells the beating so well that he can't even swing a steel chair or falls off the top rope because of exhaustion. We even get a fireball sighting late in the match and this isn't even on PPV or anything.  If you guys like the Patterson vs. Slaughter Alley Fight from '81, then I know you'll like this. Kinda surprised it's never made it onto any DVDs over the years. Oh well, a great brawl and a very strong **** 1/2*.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ATF said:


> Next month, to celebrate Summer break for myself, I'll start posting a whole new GIANT project - ranking every single Match Of The Night in a PPV EVAH. And yes, that will count Payback's


That actually sounds awesome. Will be interesting to see what the worst MOTN's were.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

lost my big ass review of WM 24 for my 08 project, so stars + updated top 10

JBL vs. Finlay
***** 1/4*

MITB
**** 1/2*

Batista vs. Umaga
*Nope*

Kane vs. Chavo Guerrero
*N/A*

Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels
*** 1/4 *

Ashley and Maria vs. Beth Phoenix and Melina
*SNOOP*

John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Randy Orton
*****

Floyd Mayweather vs. Big Show
******

Edge vs. The Undertaker
***** 1/2*




Spoiler: Top Ten WWE PPV Matches of 2008




1. Edge vs. The Undertaker - **** 1/2
2. JBL vs. Finlay - Wrestlemania - **** 1/4
3. Randy Orton vs. John Cena - No Way Out - **** 1/4
4. Raw Elimination Chamber - No Way Out - ****
5. Floyd Mayweather vs. Big Show - Wrestlemania - ****
6. Edge vs. Rey Mysterio - Royal Rumble - *** 3/4
7. Smackdown Elimination Chamber - No Way Out - *** 3/4
8. 
9.
10.​



Finished it about three weeks later than I planned

Flair/HBK went down drastically, Taker/Edge has gone up 1/2 *, Mayweather/Show is as great as I remember and JBL/Finlay is a shoe in for most underrated Wrestlemania match ever and in the running for one of the best PPV openers of all time. Edge's interview with Grisham is the bee's pyjamas and a definite highlight, also. 

Backlash up next and I don't have a clue what's on the card, the past two PPVs have been great, hopefully they make it three in a row.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Going through this Clash XI having a blast and haven't even gotten too Naitch "s match yet. Good lord these are so strong if this took place in today "wwe probably be ppv of the year.Keep these recs coming :mark:


Also check out JBL/Regal Sd 4/06 , flux sent me it yesterday :mark:


Edit: Just put him over and he buries the GOAT match


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> That actually sounds awesome. Will be interesting to see what the worst MOTN's were.


I've already ranked up every 1980's-1990's PPV (I've been doing this for a while, plus former ratings help out), and out of those, only two matches go under **. One of those borders ** itself. This out of currently *107* ranked matches. And hell, King Of The Ring '95 was not one as it did have a match over **. The 2000's didn't really have a PPV with every match under ** as far as I remember (not even Armageddon '04 or Insurrextion '02 reached those lows imo), so there you go.

This list is basically a sea of great stuff.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Robbie said:


> Backlash up next and I don't have a clue what's on the card, the past two PPVs have been great, hopefully they make it three in a row.


The Michaels vs Jericho feud should start soon enough :mark: (think Shawn was feuding with Batista before that, though). I only heard good things about that one.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

NAITCH said:


> Going through this Clash XI having a blast and haven't even gotten too Naitch "s match yet. Good lord these are so strong if this took place in today "wwe probably be ppv of the year.Keep these recs coming :mark:
> 
> 
> Also check out JBL/Regal Sd 4/06 , flux sent me it yesterday :mark:
> ...


Not even sorry 

Yeah, JBL/Regal is another great match in the never-ending list of great matches produced by the blue brand in 2006. JBL's pre match promo is a classic as well. Jibbles is great - the last two matches of his I've seen have been great and a near classic (vs. Regal and vs. Finlay WM 24, respectively.) How is his cage match w/ Benoit in 2006, anybody? I can't remember ever seeing it, sounds fucking amazing though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was is the best WWF tv year, 2000 or 2001?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2000 had the best overall product, but 2001 is >>>>> in match quality. And 2000 was pretty damn good (Texas 10-Man ftw baby). May 2001 = GOAT year for TV matches in WWE history.

For the sake of it, I'm going to watch Survivor Series 2004 :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Robbie said:


> Not even sorry
> 
> Yeah, JBL/Regal is another great match in the never-ending list of great matches produced by the blue brand in 2006. JBL's pre match promo is a classic as well. Jibbles is great - the last two matches of his I've seen have been great and a near classic (vs. Regal and vs. Finlay WM 24, respectively.) How is his cage match w/ Benoit in 2006, anybody? I can't remember ever seeing it, sounds fucking amazing though.


JBL/Benoit was up on Daily Motion recently. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> JBL/Benoit was up on Daily Motion recently.


Funny thing is the uploader's name is Yosihait. Think that was the name of the Bret hater on here that you had beef with. 

He's uploaded that and the Benoit/Orton Best of 7 match from my YT that got suspended. Good thing because that's saved me the time of doing it again.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Funny thing is the uploader's name is Yosihait. Think that was the name of the Bret hater on here that you had beef with.
> 
> He's uploaded that and the Benoit/Orton Best of 7 match from my YT that got suspended. Good thing because that's saved me the time of doing it again.


:lmao I noticed that the other on a seperate video, i thought Oh FFS.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Just watched Sheamus/Cesaro, I thought it was solid, but nothing too special.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

This was absolutely fantastic, one of the best triple threats I've seen in a very long time. You get a bit of everything from Henry dominance, to Finlay/Bourne double teams + interaction with one another, MANLY Finlay/Henry ruggedness and some great back and fourth between all three. Finlay sells unbelievably well, as does Bourne, they both bump like maniacs and Henry looks more of an animal than ever because of it. How I have never heard of this before is beyond me. A comfortable *** 3/4 for me, IMO, it's that damn good. WATCH IT. NOW.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Robbie said:


> Not even sorry
> 
> Yeah, JBL/Regal is another great match in the never-ending list of great matches produced by the blue brand in 2006. JBL's pre match promo is a classic as well. Jibbles is great - the last two matches of his I've seen have been great and a near classic (vs. Regal and vs. Finlay WM 24, respectively.) How is his cage match w/ Benoit in 2006, anybody? I can't remember ever seeing it, sounds fucking amazing though.


Benoit/JBL cage match is FAAAAANTASTIC. Love it, just a beastly struggle inside a cage with plenty of stiffness, a few great high spots, JBL being an evil prick, and Benoit being as rabid as ever. Love that match, prolly seen it a good 4-5 times the past year. ***3/4.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

I rewatched Royal Rumble 2014 since the first time I watched it live on PPV, and enjoyed it about the same. I remember liking it and liked it again. I understand why people started shitting on it about halfway through, as they were probably fed up with Orton/Cena (even though it was a short feud, bringing it back was a mistake, as it had been played out four years ago), Bryan not participating in the rumble (and then Mysterio being #30, which was an awful move), and Batista winning in his first match back.

Looking back now though, that Bryan eventually went over HUGE at WM, it makes it a lot more tolerable. The event itself is quite good:

*Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt*
That makes twice for Bryan being in the best openers of the year. This is one of the best openers ever to the point that it doesn't even feel like that. The work is so crisp and hard-hitting, these two have very nice chemistry. Then again, Bryan has great chemistry with, like, everyone. Awesome match with a shocking finish.

****

*The Big Show vs. Brock Lesnar*
Being a big fan of their matches from '02-'03, I was excited to see this again. With both of their workrates improving a lot since back then, I honestly thought this could be a great match, but what we got was a disappointment. I understand why they did it, but jeez, a beatdown followed by a 2-minute match. What a waste of one of Brock's date. Yeah he looked dominant, but at least a 5-6 minute match, like from before. The beatdown itself is vicious, but this should have just been on a segment on RAW, not a match at a PPV.

**

*WWE World Heavyweight Championship: Randy Orton vs. John Cena*
Personally, I liked this match. I thought it was in keeping with their SummerSlam '09 match, not quite the classic from '07 or their Iron Man match. The match was never boring, I loved the trade of finishers, the bump worked, and everything about it was fun.

***1/2

*Royal Rumble Match*
I've never been able to rate these matches, because I feel like they're many matches in one. Only a few have felt worth rating ('92, '01, '07, etc.) This one was no different. This was somewhat in keeping with last year's show. It was never boring, had some memorable moments (including Kofi's leap), never felt crowded, but the fact that biggest surprise was Kevin Nash, Rey Mysterio was #30, and Batista won were all bummers. The problem with Batista winning was that they announced his return, everyone figured he'd win, he came back, he announced he was going to win, he entered the match, he won. It was boring. 

Overall, I really enjoyed the show, but I understand some of the backlash. Bryan/Wyatt is a gem, Orton/Cena is underrated, and the RR match it solid.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Watching HHH/Jericho Hell in a Cell at Judgment Day 2002 right now. I actually think I'll like this.

Looking at the rest of his PPV matches from this, I must say it looks like quite the step down from early 2002 and especially 2001.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Robbie said:


> This was absolutely fantastic, one of the best triple threats I've seen in a very long time. You get a bit of everything from Henry dominance, to Finlay/Bourne double teams + interaction with one another, MANLY Finlay/Henry ruggedness and some great back and fourth between all three. Finlay sells unbelievably well, as does Bourne, they both bump like maniacs and Henry looks more of an animal than ever because of it. How I have never heard of this before is beyond me. A comfortable *** 3/4 for me, IMO, it's that damn good. WATCH IT. NOW.


Great recommendation bro. Just finished this and I have to say I agree with your description and rating. This match RULED. Love how Henry just dominates everything in his path, wrecking absolute havoc for the first few minutes. I also loved how well Finlay sold his shoulder, even having it cause him to mess up on the DDT. Finish with Bourne picking up the big victory was awesome, as was seeing that mammoth Henry deliver a WSS to Bourne with Finlay on his back. Oh, and Henry's kick to Bourne in the beginning of the match, that's one of the greatest "fuck off you little rodent" type strikes from a super heavyweight I've ever seen.

Very good match, if they had 5 more minutes they could have gotten into that GREAT territory.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I know most of you have probably seen this match (if you haven't, the fucks wrong with you? Watch it this INSTANT). Even so, I decided to post this just because, to me, this match is really what pro wrestling, in it's ideal form, should be. It's just a near flawless match, executed to perfection, with an absolutely heart breaking sell job by Matt Hardy and one of the most callous, calculated, and vicious limb work overs I can remember. If you can't already tell, I absolutely adore this match. It's my MOTY for 2007, it's Matt Hardy's best match ever (yes I love it even more than Unforgiven 05') and it's probably top 5 for Finlay in WWE. If you aren't doing anything important, I urge you to take 20 minutes and just watch or rewatch this masterpiece. It will never get old to me.



Full link for those that can't see embedded videos: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2cnb7_smackdown-22-06-07-matt-hardy-vs-fi_sport


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I prefer it to Hardy/Edge as well.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

On the network under "old school", they have a show from 8/27/88 (a day before I was born!) at the Philly Spectrum. The card is Hart Foundation vs Fabulous Rougeaus Brothers, Ted DiBiase vs Randy Savage, and Rick Rude vs Jake Roberts. Talk about stacked! I'm gonna watch it now and report back on whether it's truly as good in real life as it appears on paper.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Chi-Town Rumble 1989


*Russian Assassin #2 vs. Michael Hayes*

Hayes locked Assassin in an armbar for about 10 minutes and then Assassin put Hayes in a headlock for 5 minutes. Hayes then punched Assassin a few times and won the match. Yes that was the entire match. Why do faces, especially charismatic ones, do lengthy rest holds like this? What am I supposed to be thinking when this is happening? When the heel does this I want to face to break free of the hold. But when the face does it I’m forced to hope that either the heel breaks the hold or that the face just never lets go. I don’t want to feel that way during the match.
*½** 



*Sting vs. Butch Reed*

I’ve been very underwhelmed with every Butch Reed but I’ve ever seen. This was at least passable. It was still more rest hold heavy than it needed to be but I liked that Reed heeled it up. Normally I feel like the heels that cheat all the time look like they need to cheat. Like when Flair is in the ring it looks like he has to cheat to beat someone like Luger. But with Reed he looks like a total badass and still resorts to all sorts of dirty tactics. I actually really liked that because it was different and frustrating in a good way because he looks like someone that should be above that. Sting was solid as the face and the crowd responded to him. While the dynamic was solid there was just a lot of dead time in the match, I can only stand rest holds for so long. Still, I was expecting something terrible and it wasn’t so that’s a win for me.
****



_Loser Leaves the NWA:_
*The Original Midnight Express and Paul E. Dangerously vs. The Midnight Express and Jim Cornette* 

Aside from wanting to slap Randy Rose for wearing identical ring gear to Eaton and Lane I really liked this. But man did his gear get me confused a few times when things broke down. I thought the managers added a really good dynamic to the match. Cornette wanted to get his hands on Paul and the crowd wanted to see it as well. The problem was that if a manager got stuck in the ring with a wrestler they would be in a lot of trouble. So between Paul’s huge ego and Cornette’s desire to be in the ring with Paul there were a lot of tactics from both teams with their managers. There wasn’t the full and lengthy control segment as it was split between Lane and Cornette being isolated but in the context of the match I thought it worked. Cornette was really over and did well when he was in the ring and the fans just ate up Paul’s antics. Good pacing and well worked, this is the stuff I want to find when I watch old stuff like this.
****½* 


_Television Championship Match:_
*Rick Steiner(c) vs. Mike Rotunda *

I can’t say I’m a huge fan of this. Steiner’s character is just really weird. I don’t want to say that he was trying to portray a retarded person but it seems like that’s what he was trying to do. He just always had this confused look on his face. Basically you had 2 guys that were labelled as wrestling machines doing their thing. They didn’t click as I found this to be borderline boring. I’m writing this a little while after watching the match and I really don’t have much memory of the match.
****


_United States Championship Match:_
*Lex Luger vs. Barry Windham(c)*

They didn’t for long but they made it work. The beginning was fun as they kept the pace up and were hitting power moves. A few minutes into the match we saw Windham go for a right hand and he ended up hitting the ring post. Since Barry used the Claw as his finisher this was a pretty big problem for him as he was injured and his offense was limited. The selling of the hand was great and I felt like Barry spent the whole match trying to figure out how to work around the injury. The ending was also pretty clever because I feel like it ended that way because Barry made a mistake on how to work around the injury. Luger did his part in the match but the performance that deserves praise is Windham as I thought he was really great here. 
*****



_NWA Tag Team Championship Match:_
*The Road Warriors(c) vs. The Varsity Club*

I was glad to see that the Varsity Club went after Animal’s arm that they worked on at the previous Clash of the Champions. Unfortunately Animal’s selling was pretty lackluster. This only went around 8 minutes, the start was fun enough, the control segment was lacking good selling, and the end was kind of a clustefuck (maybe in a good way). It was decent enough and I was glad to see it didn’t last long because it means the maine event gets more time.
****


_NWA Championship Match:_
*Ric Flair(c) vs. Ricky Steamboat*

This is a masterpiece. You have Flair who is at his best defending his title against the perfect babyface. I liked that this was similar to a lot of Flair’s defenses while still being really unique. I’m used to seeing Flair in the ring with this big guys that no sell his offense. You get the feeling that Flair is fucked as soon as the match starts. It was different here as Steamboat isn’t that big guy. Instead of this impressive power display we saw him out wrestle Flair. You didn’t think, “Flair is fucked” but you still were aware that Flair was in a lot of trouble. I’ve never seen someone get the kind of reaction Steamboat got on a side headlock pin. It was an absurdly close near fall for the opening minutes and set the tone of the match. You felt that the ending come could at any time. 

What I think made this so great is that Steamboat sold for Flair more than Flair’s bigger opponents would. Steamboat was looking good and Flair was getting angry. The thing is he was able to do something about it, and he took control of the match without Steamboat screwing up. So they did this pretty quickly in the opening minutes of the match and it set up a masterful control segment. 

What worked about Flair being in control was that there wasn’t that moment that started the comeback. Steamboat would show some signs of life the entire time, and one point almost pinning Flair with a cross body which was the move he had previously beat Flair with, but Flair was usually quick to take control again. I can’t say when Flair stopped being in control, I just know that myself and every fan in that building at some point realized that Steamboat could win the match. You got some ref bumps and stuff but it worked because none of it mattered in the end and it really had everyone worried about getting a BS finish. The actual finish worked and I loved how they used a different ref to make the count. So Steamboat is celebrating with the belt and he has a good reaction but there was still this sense of fear because Tommy Young (the original ref) hadn’t done anything yet. When Tommy Young raised Steamboat’s hand it was such a great moment because you knew 100% that Flair wasn’t walking out with the title. 

What a match; I can’t believe they have another 2 matches with each other that I’ll be watching soon. There’s nothing that I can say that I didn’t like about the match. I can see why some people think this is the greatest match of all time. I’m not on that boat but it was pretty special. Generally I require something than just an amazing match to give the full 5. As their rivalry continues I can see myself giving a match of theirs the full 5 but not this one. Still this is a must watch for anyone.
*****3/4*​
For 2 and a half hours there are a lot of good matches on here. I have to say that the timing was very strange. The first few matches went really long while the upper card matches (aside from the main event) felt rushed. The show is a must see for the main event.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

As always Fitz, a fantastic review. While the 2/3 Falls Flair/Steamboat match is the one that gets all the "GOAT" praise, and rightfully so, I think I've probably watched that Chi-Town Rumble match about twice as much as their other two (Nashville and New Orleans) combined. It's shorter, a little faster paced, and has the incredible moment in the end when Steamboat finally wins the world title for the first time.

I guess I tend to give out 5-stars to matches more often than most people. To me when a match is absolutely perfect, without one single thing I would change about it, AND I feel that both opponents completely maximized the potential they had in the ring (ie when I feel they absolutely could not have a better match at that time) that's when I award 5 stars. Between WWE and WCW/NWA I think I have around 20-25 matches total that I deem worthy of the perfect score. Chi-Town Rumble Flair/Steamboat is one of those matches. Flair said in an interview that that Chicago match was the best in their series, and while that's debatable, I understand why he said that. They tell a beautiful story in the ring, and seeing Steamboat topple the man who made him a star was a really memorable moment.

Can't wait to see your review for the COTC in New Orleans.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> As always Fitz, a fantastic review. While the 2/3 Falls Flair/Steamboat match is the one that gets all the "GOAT" praise, and rightfully so, *I think I've probably watched that Chi-Town Rumble match about twice as much as their other two (Nashville and New Orleans) combined. *It's shorter, a little faster paced, and has the incredible moment in the end when Steamboat finally wins the world title for the first time.


I have to and pretty much for the reasons that you stated although I do find their WW match easy to get through despite it being ~40 minutes. Also the original version of Chi-Town Rumble has a great entrance for Flair which I cannot get enough of. Entrance not on the Network for some reason.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Need a good CLASH to watch


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Clash V trust me it's AMAZING!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

just put on CLASH XII for another great Flair vs Luger match. Plus Stan Hansen has a classic promo & mauls Z-Man. The highlights. It was structurally weaker than the two previous CLASH shows from 1990, thus far.

Finlay on this page. I love it. Lets praise a lot Matt Hardy has done too.

and WWF 2001 > everything else from the company. watched one of the Smackdown's from that year on the Network yesterday. was a nut marking out all alone in the room as I watched. what.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Can't wait to rewatch 2001, but I don't remember being a big fan of Austin or The Rock that year. Yes, both guys were excellent in the ring (especially Austin), but my goodness both of them had such shitty characters. And then Kurt Angle. What possessed the WWE to ruin him? Dude could have been even bigger if they didn't ruin his babyface run. At least they waited to ruin Chris Jericho in 2002. Shame that Benoit got injured because the man was going through the greatest run a wrestler ever had before his neck gave out. RVD when he still cared:mark: Rhyno! Shitty Undertaker :side:

Matt Hardy vs. Evan Bourne. Splendid. And I remember him having a fun match and a really good promo as well against Brock Lesnar in 2003.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

The Undertaker vs John Cena SD 24/6/04 (This opens nicely with absolutely no grappling or traditional one-upmanship, just two men throwing bombs which goes well with each one's character and status at the time- I believe Taker was possessed by Heyman and forced to act as a heel (causing underserved misery and pain to the faces on the roster) and Cena with his street rapper/fighter gimmick. I had a small problem with Cena's flurry in the corner and telling Taker to "come on, I ain't scared you" I mean you were shaking in your sneakers when he was entering the ring and recently using cheat tactics to win matches, maybe it's for Taker to not let underestimation consume him but wouldn't you want someone so fierce to underestimate you, just to come out with an unexpected attack? 

I liked Taker's thru the middle rope trip, it doesn't work at all when he's face but as a heel, it gives off that sense of desperation and 'at all costs' mentality. Cena's fear of The Deadman dying down makes sense as the match progresses and tires, too bad the early call out took away from this. Another problem being Taker's selling after he's whipped into the steps, a slit on his wrist occurs and completely disregards the selling of the legs (the hit area). Fortunately, a sweet visual comes from it, Taker sitting on the mat with a demonic facial and his split wrist with blood covering most of the forearm area, It's really devilish and gives the impression that he's thriving off the bloodshed and pain. The match settles and one is controlling the other, there's about two comebacks attempted by Cena and each derailed by a stiff shot. I like that about this control segment, it's mostly power orientated and doesn't flip flop between types of working on an opponent. 

Cena's successful comeback is a lot more subtle and makes it known the match isn't entirely in Cena's favor- countering with a spinebuster but unable to capitalize due to the prior inflict and strength needed to lift a much larger opponent. Some other things I liked about Cena's performance in the latter part of the match, disregarding the taunt before the 5 knuckle shuffle and just going for it, the way he holds onto the referee after the last ride counter for safety concerns and landing (transforming into a complete babayface) and his sloppy punches thus selling the result of fatigue, it makes sense as both looked worn out. Finish plays into Taker's heelish nature at the time, as he didn't try to wake up the ref (clothesline to Brain Hebner) after the chokeslam but decided to add insult to injury by clogging Cena with his signature chain, fine subtlety is when Taker drags Cena up (like a carcass) for the finishing tombstone rather than waiting for him to regain strength and stand on his own. The typical rating is **** and I agree with that, the match isn't without its continuity flaws, lack of selling and it missed the classic label due to being without a _memorable_ moment. Otherwise the goodness in character work, storytelling and workrate trump those former moments of illogicality.)


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

So yeah, Hell in a Cell between Jericho/HHH was pretty good. Hoped for better, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

At least it has one fan.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

:lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Vader vs Ric Flair (Starrcade 1993 PPV Build up videos)*

All build up videos from the PPV, all spliced together. Awesome stuff.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Just finished HHavoc 1996.

Dean vs Rey is spectacular. Dat finish :mark: . Must see match.
Eddie vs DDP is surprisingly really good. ***1/2 territory only because of a lackluster finish.
Faces of Fear vs McMichael and Benoit. Wow. :mark: FoF so underrated. Meng back-body-drops McMichael to Barbarian to powerbomb him but McMichael came up short and Barbarian just fucking deadlifts the guy to get a full fucking powerbomb :mark: :mark: :mark: . Barbarian on the top rope with Beniot does a belly-to-belly suplex and threw him all the way across the ring...he must have thrown him 3 feet higher in the air than he would go himself. 

PPV was really good overall with everything at least making sense and with three ***3/4+ matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't say anything about Hogan vs Savage made sense. Yikes. But the undercard pulling through is standard WCW PPV format. Faces of Fear stealing the show is common knowledge for everyone...right?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Stalling until Liz came down and then having some screwy finish. It makes sense for the NWO vs WCW feud. I didn't mind it too much though if it was cut down to Liz walking down to the finish it would be a lot better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But why did Hogan work half the match w/his Dave the Dragon wig on? Why was the work so bad? WHY DID THE MATCH DRAW LONG TO END IN A SCHMOZ IF THEY KNEW PIPER WAS GOING TO DEBUT?

Always left shivering at the end of Halloween Havoc PPVs. This was no exception. Bah, who cares. Faces of Fear & gutwrench powerbombs from the top rope. That's where it is at.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Whys Eddie vs. DDP being really good surprising? I havent seen the match but judging solely on the names involved Id be more surprised if it was anything less than great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c DDP still wasn't very established back then, despite being a hard worker. His only noteworthy matches _(off the top of my head at least)_ before that was a few matches vs Johnny B. Badd on PPV in late 1995. He did make a match vs Renegade like the best one ever that Renegade would have. The SuperBrawl match vs Badd wasn't good though. Then DDP got lumped vs The Booty Man and so on. Feud vs Guerrero's was the final niche he needed to cement himself.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Fun fact about Halloween Havoc 1996, after Savage lost the main event my brother cried like a baby. In his defense he was actually a baby (3 years old actually) and that's one of his earliest memories.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The debut of Piper in WCW, and they cut his promo as they 'ran out of time'. I know his promo dragged on, but just as he picked the belt up it went off lol.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just put on Halloween Havoc '96 to relive the Faces of Fear tag. Joy. Before this I watched the three matches from the live feed of Beware of Dog II, good show. Austin vs Vega holds up as GREAT, Vader vs Yokozuna was fun/pretty good, & Undertaker vs Goldust was good. I was quite entertained. Skipped the first two from the original PPV, but maybe I'll go back to 'em. I'm in no hurry. Shawn's lowest point of the year, for me, as champion was the series vs Smith.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Austin/Vega Strap Match is actually quite high in my upcoming MOTN Ranking _(see that subtle hype 8*D)_, it being EASILY the Beware Of Dog MOTN - fyi, I count both Day 1 and Day 2 as the same show.

Now, I'm kinda sad that Alexa didn't deliever the same BLISS to me as she did last week (Charlotte is no miracle to be in the ring with though), so... something Divas worthwhile? BUT SOMETHING DIFFERENT - DO NOT SAY TRISH/MICKIE OR KAITLYN/AJ. :side:


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Ricky Steamboat said:


> My last opportunity? Randy Savage, the day has finally come. The minutes. The seconds. We have reached our moment. As you and I climb into the ring, we clash like two titans. But there will only be one winner. One winner, Savage. This dragon is breathing fire. This dragon will scorch your back. I will come away with the championship belt and see new horizons!











Ricky Steamboat Vs. Randy Savage (Uncensored)

Still the best Wrestlemania match of all time!

- Vic


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, yeah, Savage/Steamboat is the GOAT WM match period!

Yeah...

No. Greater than the likes of Austin/Bret, Bret/Owen, Savage/Warrior and Taker/Shawn? Not for me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'd say Savage/Steamer is squarely in my top 5 for Best Mania bouts, only Bret/Austin, Bret/Owen, and HBK/Taker WM 25 off the top of my head would be above it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I think Flair/Savage entertained me more than Savage/Steamboat. Yes, I said entertained. Because NAITCH.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

As far as I'm concerned, Savage/Steamboat is the highest ****1/4 ever, absolute top of that class, but no more than that. I'm sorry, but tbh, I'd be lying if I didn't though it was overrated - amazing match, sure, but greatest match in WWE history, let alone WM? It's not even Savage or Steamboat's best match. Nope for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Vic Capri said:


> Ricky Steamboat Vs. Randy Savage (Uncensored)
> 
> Still the best Wrestlemania match of all time!
> 
> - Vic


Was that off the Network? Take it they put back Steamboat's original music.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I"d say it was savage"s best


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

> Was that off the Network? Take it they put back Steamboat's original music.


Nope. Its still censored on there. I got this way all thanks to a certain poster on here I made a business deal with recently. 

- Vic


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

NAITCH said:


> I"d say it was savage"s best


Not better than Savage/Warrior as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM matches better than Savage/Steamboat:

20..The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian - ****1/4 (WM 2000)
19..The Undertaker Vs Ric Flair - ****1/4 (WM X8)
18..Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Benoit - ****1/4 (WM XX)
17..The Undertaker Vs CM Punk - ****1/4 (WM 29)
16..The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton - ****1/4 (WM 21)
15..Randy Savage Vs The Ultimate Warrior - ****1/2 (WM VII)
14..The Rock Vs Steve Austin - ****1/2 (WM X7)
13..Chris Jericho Vs Christian Vs Chris Benoit Vs Kane Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs Edge - ****1/2 (WM 21)
12..The Rock Vs Steve Austin - ****1/2 (WM XIX)
11..Mick Foley Vs Edge - ****1/2 (WM 22)
10..Shawn Michaels Vs Kurt Angle - ****1/2 (WM 21)
09..The Undertaker Vs Edge - ****1/2 (WM 24)
08..The Undertaker Vs Batista - ****1/2 (WM 23)
07..CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho - ****1/2 (WM 28)
06..Bret Hart Vs Owen Hart - ****3/4 (WM X)
05..The Undertaker Vs Triple H - ****3/4 (WM 27)
04..The Undertaker Vs Triple H - ****3/4 (WM 28)
03..The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ***** (WM 25)
02. Bret Hart Vs Steve Austin - ***** (WM 13)
01. The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ***** (WM 26)

Aaaand that's about all I can be arsed contributed at this moment in time .


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Taker/Triple H WM 27 :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Vic Capri said:


> Nope. Its still censored on there. I got this way all thanks to a certain poster on here I made a business deal with recently.
> 
> - Vic


Ohhhhhhh. Wink Wink. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## The True Believer (Oct 19, 2013)

Just watched that Finlay/Matt Hardy match that Rabid posted a while back. 

I don't think I've ever seen anyone sell a limb as convincingly as Hardy did in that match. I wasn't expecting anything flashy but I still appreciated the ground work by both men. I can't believe I didn't remember this match considering I was an avid watcher of Smackdown before everything turned to shit(2013ish-present).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd say Smackdown was filled w/better wrestling by the usual suspects last year than in years like 2011 & 2012, but that's a different topic. Finlay vs Hardy making the rounds. (Y)


----------



## Chelsea411 (May 16, 2014)

Anyone remember Judgement Day 04? I just watched Rey/RVD vs The Dudley Boyz and I have to say it was pretty amazing. I would even give it ****3/4. One of the best opening matches I have ever seen. I'm not done with the show yet but I think Eddie vs JBL could be pretty damn good as well.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You have the lowest standards I've ever seen then, dude :lol

To each his own though. Oh and Eddie/JBL is near flawless for my taste


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*** 1/4 for last night's NXT main event. Fun match with a so-so finish, but you kinda feel like the wrong guy won. Not sure how excited I can get about the Takeover card just yet. Tyler Breeze is becoming one of my new favorite wrestlers though.

What should I watch tonight fellas? WrestleMania 29, episodes of RAW from 1997, or should I rewatch stuff that's been MOTYC worthy from this year to get an appropriate list?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Robbie said:


> Whys Eddie vs. DDP being really good surprising? I havent seen the match but judging solely on the names involved Id be more surprised if it was anything less than great.


I have often heard that DDP was terrible in the ring and got by on the Diamond Cutter and his "self high-five" shtick. Obviously not surprised from Eddie.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *** 1/4 for last night's NXT main event. Fun match with a so-so finish, but you kinda feel like the wrong guy won. Not sure how excited I can get about the Takeover card just yet. Tyler Breeze is becoming one of my new favorite wrestlers though.
> 
> What should I watch tonight fellas? WrestleMania 29, episodes of RAW from 1997, or should I rewatch stuff that's been MOTYC worthy from this year to get an appropriate list?



Dude go to "Old School" under the "Vault" section on the network, select the year 1988, and watch the Philly spectrum show from 8-27-88. It's a short 1 hour card. The matches? Hart Foundation vs Rougeau Brothers. Ted DiBiase vs Randy Savage. And Jake Roberts vs Rick Rude. You won't find a better 1 hour show anywhere.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> I have often heard that DDP was terrible in the ring and got by on the Diamond Cutter and his "self high-five" shtick. Obviously not surprised from Eddie.


I'll let Funnyfaces educate you on the ways of DDP, but rest assured Dallas was a damn good worker and got where he did from hard work and having kick ass matches.

Check:
Benoit/DDP from SuperBrawl 1998
DDP vs Savage from GAB 1997
DDP vs Goldberg HH 1998
DDP vs Sting Nitro 1999
DDP vs Raven Spring Stampede
DDP vs Raven vs Benoit Uncensored


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Dude go to "Old School" under the "Vault" section on the network, select the year 1988, and watch the Philly spectrum show from 8-27-88. It's a short 1 hour card. The matches? Hart Foundation vs Rougeau Brothers. Ted DiBiase vs Randy Savage. And Jake Roberts vs Rick Rude. You won't find a better 1 hour show anywhere.


I was waiting for you to post a review on that and it never came... unless I missed it  Does Harts/Frenchies go to a time limit draw? The show looked super interesting on paper but few times do those old house shows hold up or ever come through with good finishes from what I've seen.

bigbuxxx, watch DDP's matches with Johnny B. Badd too. World War III '95 and SuperBrawl '96 are good.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

JD opener is ****3/4? The fuck? NO WAY. also :lmao at HHH/Taker WM 27 being the 5th best mania match ever 

and Savage/Warrior is TOPS for Savage, vs Steamer would likely be his 2nd best yet might not make a top 5 for Steamer

EDIT: yeah WM 3 match is not top 5 for Steamboat, all 4 Flair matches and vs Vader human cage are EASILY better than that.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Clash of the Champions VI


*The Samoan Swat Team w/Paul E. Dangerously vs. The Midnight Express w/Jim Cornette *

I’m surprised this went so long. It was still pretty solid. I liked how the Midnight Express was treated as a really strong team. It was clear that the Samoans wanted to slow the match down but for the longest time they just weren’t able to do that. They ended up working the Midnight Express’s style of match and it wasn’t working out very well for them. The pacing was good for this lengthy part of the match as it was exactly what the Midnight Express would have wanted. You always hear the commentators talk about how one team wants to keep the pace up but that team never actually succeeds in doing that. In this match they did succeed in doing that. Obviously the Samoans get in some offense and work their control segment and it was fine enough. There were actually a few points where it looked like they were going to isolate someone but it got broken up after only a few minutes (basically a false control segment). Going 20 minutes probably wasn’t necessary and the match did drag a bit at times but it was still a good match. 
****¼* 


*The Great Muta vs. Steve Casey*

Muta uses the green mist on Casey as soon as the match starts and proceeds to stretch him out and beat him up for 5 minutes. There were a few top rope spots that you didn’t see at this time. Well at least there were a few cool moves during the squash.
*¾** 


*The Junkyard Dog vs. Butch Reed*

I would be curious to see what would happen if someone told them to work a slower and less exciting match. I say that because I’m not sure how you would go about having a slower and less exciting match. I also want it to be clear that I just wrote the above part of the review because I didn’t want to write for my entire review, “This was so boring and it really sucked.” However, that’s really all I have to say about the match.
*DUD*



_United States Tag Team Championship Match:_
*Eddie Gilbert and Rick Steiner vs. The Varsity Club (Kevin Sullivan and Dan Spivey)
*
Spivey attacks Gilbert to start things off and him and Sullivan proceed to just beat the shit out of him. This match wasn’t long so they kept the pace up and had some really good looking power moves. Gilbert soon after makes a tag and things get out of control before the finish. Really fun match and it was nice to see that not every match needs a ton of time to be enjoyable.
***½ *



_2-Out-Of-3 Falls for the NWA Championship:_
*Ricky Steamboat(c) vs. Ric Flair*

Where do I even start? I guess overall you have to admire the pacing and the workrate of this match. I don’t think there are many other people that would have been physically able to do what they did. Everything looked good, I can’t recall a single botch or move that didn’t look good. 

The match is obviously a lot more than that as it’s a 55 minute masterpiece. I did really like that all 3 falls felt different. Steamboat dominated the first fall and he might have used the headlock better than anyone ever. There’s putting a headlock in to rest and then there is Steamboat moving around for leverage, wrenching his arms, releasing for a second just to club the head before reapplying. He made something compelling that would be boring for anyone else to do. He also gave the impression that he was using the headlock to really wear Flair down. He would lock in the headlock, release, do an awesome series of moves on Flair, and then lock him in the headlock again. Flair was great in this situation as he went from his usual arrogant self, to be taken back by Steamboat’s aggressiveness, to getting frustrated that he was getting his ass kicked. Steamboat just wasn’t putting up with Flair’s shit either. Flair would go for his usual antics early and was stiffly slapped in the face twice for trying to do so. The first fall was just incredible and I liked that Flair was able to sneak away with it because it put him in the role of “champion” for all intents and purposes. Honestly if the match had ended after the first fall I would probably give it around a 4 star rating. 

The second fall was Flair being in control of the match. At this point it looked like the champion was in trouble because you had Flair up a fall and in control of the match. I wouldn’t say this fall was as strong as the first fall but I wouldn’t say it was far behind either. You had Steamboat playing the role he was born to play as he was the champion that was desperately trying to hold onto his title. Flair was just throwing everything at him, I think Flair even succeeded with a move off the top rope at one point, which as we all know Flair has a success rate of about 1% when going to the top rope. You got the more traditional match here as Steamboat made his comeback and was able to get Flair to top out with a great looking move. The second fall as a stand alone match would also be considered great.

The final fall was a lot more evenly matched and made for a fitting end. They were both running near empty and they just kept doing. It was some of the little things here that I really liked. Instead of a strong kick out they would just get one shoulder up for a second to break the count. They threw everything at each other and it was great to see. The ending was also pretty cool because it was built off what they had previously been doing. Towards the end Steamboat got his leg caught in the ropes and Flair exploited it for a while. When Steamboat went for the double chicken wing, the move he won the second fall with, his leg gave out and him and Flair collapsed. The finish wasn’t great but it sort of worked as you got the impression that either guy could have won towards the end and Steamboat got lucky. 

There’s nothing that I can say bad about this match. It’s almost an hour long and it flies by. I was also happy to see that Flair kept the heel tactics to a minimum. I mean he still cheated from time to time but it wasn’t over the top like it could have been. I’m not sure if I liked it more than Chi-Town Rumble but it isn’t far behind at all. If I had a list of what I thought the best matches ever were Flair and Steamboat would be causing me to drop a lot of them down a few notches.
*****¾ *​

I'm not really sure why the opener had to be so long and cause some of the undercard stuff not to air. But the main event was amazing and if you're watching this show that's why you're watching it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I was waiting for you to post a review on that and it never came... unless I missed it  Does Harts/Frenchies go to a time limit draw? The show looked super interesting on paper but few times do those old house shows hold up or ever come through with good finishes from what I've seen.
> 
> bigbuxxx, watch DDP's matches with Johnny B. Badd too. World War III '95 and SuperBrawl '96 are good.



I didn't bother to write my thoughts down when watching it I just decided to sit back and enjoy. All the matches are worked in a very 80s WWE style if you know what I mean. Pretty slow paced, lots and lots of character work, with tons of sneakiness and antics from the heels. I mean the character work in all 3 matches is just off the charts awesome. So if you are into that sort of thing like I am, I definitely reccomend giving it a watch. You won't see much if any fast paced back and forth action, but if you love the characters involved as much as I do I can't see you not enjoying yourself. And it's only an hour . I'll give you my ratings though:

Harts/Rougeaus ***1/2 (MOTN)
DiBiase/Savage ***1/4
Rude/Roberts ***1/4


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

bigbuxxx said:


> I have often heard that DDP was terrible in the ring and got by on the Diamond Cutter and his "self high-five" shtick.


Whoever's been saying that is ASS wrong.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Yeah, the classics forum isn't the best. Seems 80% of those people flame others who dislike Bret/HBK Ironman match or don't see it as a classic. Seen a few different people say that about DDP.


----------



## Necramonium (Oct 26, 2011)

Been watching the The Best Of Raw, After The Show dvd, some absolute golden stuff in there, especially The Rock and Stone Cold were hilarious, and together even better. Loved the segment where Stone Cold got his ass beaten by RVD twice and than out of nothing while lying on the mat started to sing songs and interviewed some people in the crowd. XD


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Clash of the champions III*

Brad Armstrong vs Mike Rotunda: ***1/2 

The Sheepherders vs Nikita Koloff and Steve Williams: ***3/4 

Kevin Sullivan vs Dusty Rhodes: * 

Ivan Koloff vs Ricky Morton: **1/2 

Barry Windham vs Sting: ***1/4 ​


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *** 1/4 for last night's NXT main event. Fun match with a so-so finish, but you kinda feel like the wrong guy won. Not sure how excited I can get about the Takeover card just yet. Tyler Breeze is becoming one of my new favorite wrestlers though.
> 
> What should I watch tonight fellas? WrestleMania 29, episodes of RAW from 1997, or should I rewatch stuff that's been MOTYC worthy from this year to get an appropriate list?


That match stunk, they sold that match like it was the most grueling match ever, but in reality they just all laid on their asses for a good portion of the match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

William Murderface said:


> That match stunk, they sold that match like it was the most grueling match ever, but in reality they just all laid on their asses for a good portion of the match.


Well I can agree on the selling thing being overdone but I still enjoyed it. Are you a Tyson Kidd hater like your brother?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Well I can agree on the selling thing being overdone but I still enjoyed it. Are you a Tyson Kidd hater like your brother?


No, just think it's pointless they wanna give him the spotlight when it should have been Breeze or Zayn, no one cares to see Tyson Kidd, they had there chance to do that 4 years ago.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just popping in to give another recommendation for a match I just watched and LOVED.






Here is the full link for people that can't see embedded videos: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx0h45jm9Ts

Not on the level of their SS match, but right there with Unforgiven as the second or third best in the series. They also had a FANTASTIC match on Smackdown that I can't seem to find.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That Austin/Angle match is really good but I still stand behind their match from the January 8, 2001 episode of RAW as being their best non-ppv encounter (that I've seen at least). It's even better if you love a lot of suplexes, which I know you have to as Benoit fan.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *** 1/4 for last night's NXT main event. Fun match with a so-so finish, but you kinda feel like the wrong guy won. Not sure how excited I can get about the Takeover card just yet. Tyler Breeze is becoming one of my new favorite wrestlers though.
> 
> What should I watch tonight fellas? WrestleMania 29, episodes of RAW from 1997, or should I rewatch stuff that's been MOTYC worthy from this year to get an appropriate list?


rewatch that triple threat to realize how awful it is 8*D


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

GTFO. :lol Decided to go with WrestleMania 29. 80% finished with it and this show still doesn't honestly feel like a WrestleMania (up until the triple main event), but my rating for Punk/Taker has actually gone up. Such a fucking GREAT match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Watched a few TV matches from this year today :

Cesaro/Orton 2/13/14
- Good match, wouldnt say great or anything but good. Nice little showcase for Cesaro, liked how early on Orton was toying with him but deep down just trying to get out of the ring and not get into a real wrestling match because Cesaro would kill him, nice back and forths

Real Americans vs. Sheamus and Christian Raw
- Also a good tag, all four guys did well in this, outside of Bryan the four best wrestlers in the company atm were in the ring. Nice tag team match with a hot crowd

Sheamus vs. Titus O'Neil Main Event 4/20/14
- :mark: awesome match, just great


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Better than 27 & 28, so I give it some support.

SHEAMUS. Real Americans tag & vs Titus. Why I watch. :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WrestleMania 29​*The Shield vs. Sheamus, Randy Orton, & Big Show - ***

Mark Henry vs. Ryback - ** 1/2

*WWE Tag Team Championship*
Team Hell No (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler & Big E. Langston - ** 1/2

Chris Jericho vs. Fandango - ** 1/2

*World Heavyweight Championship*
Alberto Del Rio (c) vs. Jack Swagger - ** 1/4

*The Streak*
The Undertaker vs. CM Punk - **** 1/2

*No Holds Barred Career Threatening Match*
Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar - ****

*WWE Championship*
The Rock (c) vs. John Cena - DUD​
- Good opener, rating stayed the same. Your usual chaos down the stretch but I still think it was odd what they did with Big Show. He goes semi-face and gains his team's trust just to get angry and re-turn heel... at WrestleMania? Just seemed strange to pull a finish like that on a big show that had little time to develop. Oh well, good match.

- My goodness Henry vs. Ryback went WAY up on this viewing. Thought it sucked initially but came across much different this time. Henry dominated the whole way through which totally worked because of Ryback's limitations and we got a somewhat creative finish out of it. Henry gets the win, Ryback gets the last laugh and the shellshock. Everything worked here.

- Tag Title match is short fun. Loved the 18 seconds tease in the beginning. Good back and forth stuff. Still think this could've gotten more time with how much they wasted in the last two hours though.

- Jericho vs. Fandango was definitely cool for what they were going for at the time with Fandango getting his first victory on the biggest stage, but it's hilarious to look back on. How many noteworthy PPV matches has this guy had since then? None. :lol Pretty solid match, nothing special.

- Del Rio vs. Swagger is a disappointment for me. I like both guys but I just cannot get into anything they were doing until they started going for submissions. It felt like it was lacking a story or purpose. Then we got what I felt like was a cheap finish. Meh. I still stand by my stance that Jericho should've won the Elimination Chamber and Dolph should've cashed in prior to Mania so we could've gotten a higher level World Title match. Miz or someone else could've put over Fandango. You could've created Real Americans a little earlier to insert them in the Tag Title match or somethin. Again, oh well.

- Oh lordy, Punk vs. Undertaker. There's so many incredible things happening throughout this whole package from the entrances to the finish that make this one of my favorite matches of all time. Punk's amazing character work along with the faces and gestures he makes, Taker's never ending resilience and presence, Heyman being Heyman at ringside, the amazing sequences put forth near the end, the whole thing is just awesome. I love Punk doing everything in his power to win and not letting Taker get his usual shit in. The deathly stare as Taker sits up in the anaconda vice. :mark: The sequence where Punk hits GTS and Taker seamlessly bounces off the ropes right into the tombstone. :mark: The nearfall after the shot with the urn. :mark: This is why I love wrestling and also why I miss CM Punk.  Unless Punk/Lesnar or Cena/Bryan shoot up on my next viewing, this is without a doubt my 2013 MOTY.

- When WrestleMania originally aired, I thought Lesnar/Trips was below average. I rewatched it the next day and I've been a major supporter ever since. I'm one of the few, but still. Thought it was an awesome slow paced brawl with both men just beating the hell out of each other. Brock's dominance and primal screams in the early going were godly. Anyone remember that gif I used to have in my sig?  This is one of the few times he's shown personality in his matches since his comeback and it worked. He was booked strong as fuck in defeat considering everything Hunter had to do to put him down. The HBK & Heyman run ins were done at perfect times and added flares of entertainment too. This is good stuff which is surprising because their other two matches were huge letdowns for me. Crazy to think this is the last time Lesnar has lost a match. 

- Cena vs. Rock II is utter donkey shit. I really did give it a shot this time but it was even worse than I remembered. It went past the point of overkill or spamming finishers, the whole fucking match WAS finishers. I can't even give it a rating with Cena's little heel tease late in the match because following that, Rock went for about 3 more Rock Bottoms unsuccessfully before hitting a random ass DDT (you use a DDT that late in the match after we've seen like 4 finishers EACH!?) and then he just stands there while Cena is laid out completely! Horrible. Without a doubt the worst Mania main event I've ever seen, which again is very strange because I liked what they did the previous year in the main event (except for it going too long).

- Overall this is a pretty rock solid show up and down marred by an abomination of a main event, which is unfortunate because this one and Mania 27 have pretty bad reputations despite having plenty of good stuff to watch. The undercard doesn't really feature anything standout but everything is watchable and easy to sit through. Had they given more time to the Tag Title match and booked Del Rio/Swagger more like their Smackdown match where it was all about limbwork, this one may be more highly touted.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

At least Punk can say he gave Taker his last great match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Unless you're one of those people who creamed over Taker wrestling on RAW in the 6-man against the Shield and overrated it simply because he was in it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

If I remember right, Taker didn't do THAT much in the 6 man. And I love that match, but it's great for different reasons.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I think I gave that Shield/BoD & Bryan match like a ***1/2. I might go back and re-watch it, but I remember there being better six man tags in those series of matches like the ones with Shield vs. Hell No & Kofi and Shield vs. Hell No & Orton, which wasn't too long after the 'Taker one. Those days when Raw had a 30 minute Shield match every week, man.

I remember watching Punk/Taker and thinking better of it. ****1/2 on first watch turned into a ****3/4 on the second watch. I thought it was phenomenal. Definitely 'Taker's last great match. Cena/Rock fucking sucked as much as it did the first time I watched it. The WM28 match was way better.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Punk/Taker definitely deserves ****1/4+ imo, it's just so good from every standpoint. Punk was on a whole new level of performing, the guy does phone it in but when he gives it all, 110%, I don't think there is anyone better, besides Bryan.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

World War III 1996

Mysterio vs. Ultimo Dragon (c) - ****1/4

Jarrett vs. The Giant - ***1/4

The Quebecers...i mean The Amazing French Canadians w/Col. Rob Parker vs. Harlem Heat w/Sherri - *3/4

Psychosis vs. Malenko (c) - **1/2 match. 

Hall/Nash (c) vs Faces of Fear vs Nasty Boys - ***1/4.

World War III match - NO! Watched the first five minutes and gave up with the 3 tiny camera angles. Skipped another 30 and watched the last couple minutes. 

3 completely skippable matches, 2 good matches, and a great match. Give this a 3.5/10

So far with what I've watched I have Halloween Havoc 96 > Hog Wild 96 > Fall Brawl 96 > World War III 96


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I think Shield/Hell No & Taker is great but definitely not because of Taker simply being in it. It was typical Shield/Hell No Tag greatness... that just happened to feature Taker being awesome in the short time he was there. Oh, and London crowds also help.

WM 29 was a pretty consistent and rather underrated show - Taker/Punk was fucking amazing, almost a Top 10 WM match ever for me, HHH/Lesnar is pretty damn good and the first hour was consistent. I love Hell No/Ziggler & Big E more than anybody ever as well. However, Cody said it's better than 27 and 28. I definitely agree w/27, but 28? Nope. Punk/Jericho and Taker/Trips put it quite a lot of notches above. Plus, Kane/Orton and Rock/Cena were solid enough for my enjoyment. 28 is definitely alongside 26 as the 2nd or 3rd best WM of the PG Era (30 being the best obviously).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WM 28 is basically a four hour B-PPV in a larger arena. That's it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That applies even more to WM 29 :lmao

That whole thing felt closer to Payback than WM 8*D


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WM 29 actually had a competent card fill out the show. WM 28 was four hours for three matches & two of them didn't click; main one flopped. At least WM 29 had an undercard to fall back on.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The main one in WM 28 "flopped", but the main one in 29 flopped, sucked and blew. Granted, 29's first hour was WAAAAYYY better than 28's overall, but the ultra-strenght of Punk/Jericho and Taker/Trips (fuck you, this was awesome) combined put 29 to shambles. 29 had a consistent card sure, and most times good too, but well, I'll take a card with TWO incredible matches and one or two solid ones and fuck else over one incredible, two/three goods and fuck else anyway. Plus, in terms of atmosphere, 28 actually FELT like a WrestleMania. 29 was bleak, dark and just unmemorable in comparision.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It had a consistent card. Boom. All I care about. Bringing up the rest as if this is some kind of debate :hayden3


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You should've told me that you only care about the wrestling. I wouldn't mention all of the other stuff if that was your point. :side:

But regardless, bottom line: Punk/Jericho and Taker/Trips > all of the WM 29 card. Yes, even Taker/Punk. There, that's why I have 28 over 29. unk


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

why are shows from the last two years being discussed when there are perfectly good TAKA Michinoku matches available to talk about


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c multi-tasking isn't hard, man.






this actually happened.

post matches of Taka in Japan for the hell of it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Because they can be just as talked about as TAKA matches :sheamus

But anyways, my MOTN Ranking list is almost complete. Only NXT Takeover and Payback left to rank. But I don't really have a good feeling on how high Payback could rank. I don't hope Shield/Evolution II - my prediction for MOTN - to be any better than the first one.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Is Takeover looking promising?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Spoiler: NXT



It looks OK. Neville/Kidd and Zayn/Breeze should be good, Ascension/Luchadores could be hit or miss and Sasha or Natalya/Charlotte screams mehland for me. Don't know what else will be on the card but I guess Rawley will be "wrasslin" too.



I bet my life it won't be as good as Arrival.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Need to remember not everyone reads the tapings.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> b/c multi-tasking isn't hard, man.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Holy fuck Taka beat Henry? With the world's weakest kick? 

Also...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was hoping he'd DDT him or attempt a small package instead of winning via that light kick. The gif, however; spectacular.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> They also had a FANTASTIC match on Smackdown that I can't seem to find.


Is it one of these dates:

Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle - Smackdown 03/01/2001 - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xh...austin-vs-kurt-angle-smackdown-3-1-2001_sport
Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle - Smackdown 03/15/2001 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytuaerw4zlE


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I was hoping he'd DDT him or attempt a small package instead of winning via that light kick. The gif, however; spectacular.


Have you seen that ECW 3 way between Henry/Finlay/Bourne that Flux posted a few days ago? I'd love to see a gif of that AWESOME "fuck off" kick Henry gives Bourne. Henry is mauling Finlay and Just as soon as Henry tosses Finlay away, Bourne tries to sneak up behind him but Henry turns right in time and throws this nasty side kick directly into Bournes gut causing him to collapse and die for a moment or two. It's just a wonderful little spot.



The Hitman said:


> Is it one of these dates:
> 
> Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle - Smackdown 03/01/2001 - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xh...austin-vs-kurt-angle-smackdown-3-1-2001_sport
> Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle - Smackdown 03/15/2001 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytuaerw4zlE


I will check these as soon as I get home and get back to you, thanks again bud!

Edit: it's the 3/1/2001 match I was thinking of


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

When was Lesnar back last year, mid July?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> When was Lesnar back last year, mid July?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Yes sir. July 15th I believe.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thx. 2 more months left then. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Yeah1993 said:


> why are shows from the last two years being discussed when there are perfectly good TAKA Michinoku matches available to talk about


You seen TAKA vs. Nishimura from the last August? Because sheeeeeit, what a match!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Hitman said:


> Thx. 2 more months left then.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


For what exactly? Passing of a year since?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm guessing he's wondering when he can expect Brock to be back to prep for Summerslam.

I can say I'm about certain that we definitely won't be seeing Bryan/Brock at Summerslam now, and I'm actually glad as that match should Main Event WM 31. I say this because even if Bryan is back in time for the show, putting him in a match with Brock, the most physical and punishing guy on the roster, right after next surgery, borders on abuse of an employee. I'm pretty sure that match Punk had with Brock was the big catalyst that started Punks downward spiral that culminated in him leaving. Punk didn't have a single great match after SS, and while I'm sure he was pretty beat up going into the Brock feud, I'm positive he was pretty much a broken down wrestler afterwards. I've seen several interviews with people who saw Punk backstage at events after Summerslam, and he was apparently at that Eddie level of broken down where he would just lay on the trainer table for hours getting worked on just to go have a 15 minute match. I don't want that happening to Bryan, it's best to wait for him to be fully healed before going up against a monster like Lesnar. Plus that match wouldn't make any sense to do at SS because neither guy should be losing. I think that leaves Brock/Cesaro as a big possibility, a match I think we would all love to see.

I'm off to watch Rey/Tajiri SD 2003. Love all the matches these two guys had with one another. At some point I want to do a top 10 Tajiri project while he was in WWE. I'm certain all his top 10 matches would be at that ****+ level, he was just phenomenal there for a few years, especially 2003.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> For what exactly? Passing of a year since?


Until The Beast is back. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah but tbh I'm not even sure what the fuck is Lesnar coming to do at SummerSlam/NOC this year. To face Cesaro in a situation where he HAS to win? Good match yes, good decision nah.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

We all agree that Brock has to win ANY match with Bryan right?

watching GAB 1996 atm, then starting clash IV


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You can argue Punk didn't have any great matches post-Summerslam because he was stuck with Axel & Ryback. I'm assuming we're talking singles here because I'm sure he was involved in some good tag matches.

GAB '96. Great, great show. One of WCW favorites.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk's matches with Ambrose were great. And he had a few other good singles matches. Plus, the 3-on-1 match with The Shield was great as well IMO. Really smartly worked IMO, and while I don't know I agree with the decision to have him beat The Shield on his own clean, if they absolutely had to do it, they went about it the best way I think.

Problem is, his main feud was with Heyman and Ryback and Axel. That's what people mostly remember from his post Summerslam run and unfortunately, none of them were any good.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> We all agree that Brock has to win ANY match with Bryan right?
> 
> watching GAB 1996 atm, then starting clash IV


I don't think Brock should lose any matches, by DQ, count out, or whatever, for atleast a year, no matter who his opponent is.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> You can argue Punk didn't have any great matches post-Summerslam because he was stuck with Axel & Ryback. I'm assuming we're talking singles here because I'm sure he was involved in some good tag matches.
> 
> GAB '96. Great, great show. One of WCW favorites.


Very true. Axel/Ryback is really not much to work with. He did have some good-really good tags though no doubt about it. The Ambrose matches were pretty good as well.



#BadNewsSanta said:


> Punk's matches with Ambrose were great. And he had a few other good singles matches. Plus, the 3-on-1 match with The Shield was great as well IMO. Really smartly worked IMO, and while I don't know I agree with the decision to have him beat The Shield on his own clean, if they absolutely had to do it, they went about it the best way I think.
> 
> Problem is, his main feud was with Heyman and Ryback and Axel. That's what people mostly remember from his post Summerslam run and unfortunately, none of them were any good.


No question the Ambrose and Shield Handicap matches were good. I just use "great" to describe any match I'd give a ****+ rating to. I wasn't saying Punk was "bad" after SS, he just wasn't his usual self. He was still more than capable of delivering a very good match on any given night if he had an opponent that was worth a damn. I just think there was a noticeable drop off in the quality of his personal performances after SS, and the only thing I can attribute that to is that he was absolutely beat to shit at that point. I'm sure the fact that the creative for him post SS was so bad didn't help matters mentally for him. I'm sure you guys have seen or heard some of the interviews I'm talking about, of people seeing Punk backstage during his last few months with the company just being in physical agony non stop. I don't want anyone going through physical torture just for my entertainment.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Punk matches w/the Shield were mostly good. Singles stuff vs Ambrose and 3-on-1 vs Shield was (Y). Liked the Harper and Reigns matches too. Other than that, yeah Punk really hasn't been involved in a lot of killer stuff in his final months. Crappy to think that this year's 30-Man Royal Rumble, as underrated as it may be, is the last televised CM Punk match ever.

About to rewatch HBK/Orton from Survivor Series '07, just because. Love it, I have it at a pretty high ****1/2 and easy MOTN for SVS '07 (HYPE for my list there), and I want to watch it again because yes.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

TAJIRI!










Gonna finish up the review for Elimination Chamber 2011 soon. DREW MCINTYRE! JOHN MORRISON! TAJIRI!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*Elimination Chamber 2011*

Alberto Del Rio vs. Kofi Kingston: ****1/4*

*World Heavyweight Championship Elimination Chamber*
Edge vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Big Show vs. Kane vs. Drew McIntyre vs. Wade Barrett: *****1/2*

*WWE Tag Team Championship*
The Corre vs. Santino Marella/Vladimir Kozlov: ****

*WWE Championship*
The Miz vs. Jerry Lawler: ****1/2*

*#1 Contender Elimination Chamber*
CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. Sheamus vs. John Morrison vs. Randy Orton vs. R-Truth: ****3/4*​
-On paper, the opener looks like a dreadful match to most of us. But for those of us who actually watched it, we all agree on just how fun it was. I really liked how Del Rio attacked Kofi's ribs, and then later on the ribs came into play with how Del Rio would always defend himself from Kofi's offense by hitting Kofi's ribs. Kofi's hope spots were timed at the perfect moments, and none of Del Rio's offense during his solid control segments ever dragged. People were actually really getting behind Kofi's efforts, which really goes to show just how effective the structure of this match was. Fast-paced match that you will like if you set aside your biases towards either guy in the match.

-God damn, why wasn't this the main event? After watching this, I really don't know if an elimination chamber match can get any better. It's either this or 2005. Every single person in this match brought it.

First thing to note from the match was how every single move that everyone did here looked so impactful whether it was Barrett's pumphandle slam, Kane's uppercuts, Big Show's slaps, and even Edge's spears! Whereas the 2005 NYR chamber match exemplified brutality through the use of multiple blade jobs, these guys here could not do that so they utilized what they could by hitting their moves with that extra bit of oomph. And it is with that extra oomph that these guys were able to express the brutality of the elimination chamber. And in between these great beatdowns are wrestlers taunting the ones that are still in their respective pods, further building up the eventual heat once those wrestlers enter into the match. Brilliant! And as if the opening of the match wasn't great enough, everything gets better when DREW MCINTYRE comes in and wrecks shit! I think this was the match that convinced me that Drew is great. More than great. He damn near kills everyone! And then Big Show comes in and he too wrecks shit. Die Wade Barrett! Now Kane kills people. Now everyone is dead! Man, Big Show's elimination was so good. I'll never get tired of multiple people trying to take the big man down. Mysterio's super west coast pop! I need a cigarrette after this match with all the action taking place.
Finally after all the commotion has settled, we end with the same two men that started the match. Can this match seriously get any better? Great callback to their 2009 finale. So many moments where I bought the nearfalls, and every time Rey and Edge collapsed due to exhaustion, it felt so natural considering what kind of war they just put themselves into. Awesome ending to a classic. No flaws. None.

-Fun squash. I like Heath Slater and Justin Gabriel and they win.

-The beauty of a match between a young arrogant punk champion and the old legend trying to relive his glory days. And what better man to play the babyface than Jerry Lawler? Let's be real here, nobody on this planet would think that Jerry could pull it off, but the test to see if this match works is if the babyface can make you believe. And by golly, did Jerry make me believe! That moment where he reverses Miz's SCF into a DDT and then dropping the fist. Oh man, my body was shivering. Lawler looked competitive, but more importantly, he gave enough to Miz so that he looked just as good in this match as well. Too often do babyfaces in the WWE refuse to give enough to the heel, especially in title match scenarios, but Jerry Lawler being the extraordinaire that he is realizes that the point of this match wasn't just to feature himself. By the end of the match, Miz looked like the young arrogant successful punk that he was supposed to be. Inspiring match that makes me wanna load up the Memphis tapes.
-Something has to be in the air tonight. Even Randy Orton's clotheslines are on point! While not as great as the other elimination chamber match, I loved all the things that went on in this one. Starting with Sheamus and Morrison was brilliant considering their great rivalry that ran through 2010. Sheamus' no-nonsense brawling with Morrison's parkour stuff was an excellent contrast of styles that lends itself to work in the beginning here. Randy Orton continues to uphold the strong start with a nice onslaught (including good clotheslines for once). 

Good start which leads to one of the best moments in the match: Punk's false elimination. What I loved so much about it was how something that had a lot of potential for failing ended up being a creative success. Why not replace filler wrestling in the chamber match with something that advances a storyline and draws some nice heat between two guys in the match? Meanwhile, Sheamus continues to just beat the shit out of everyone. God damn, we praise Sheamus so much, but we don't talk enough about how good he is at gimmick matches. And then to make matters even better, the lone piece of garbage in this match gets eliminated quickly, but not before even he does something cool by baiting Cena into going into the pod and bashing Cena's skull into the glass. Now more smashing and bashing! Until Punk comes in and targets Randy with usual great Punk antics and taunting. Hmm, didn't realize that this was actually the first time he pinned Orton cleanly.

And now John freakin' Morrison is killing it out there. He continues his fight with Sheamus. And then WTF! Dude starts climbing up the structure like Spiderman and delivers a really cool flying everything on Sheamus. And to carry on the momentum, we get our first Punk/Cena interaction of the night. These guys are so good together that they make what is normally a resthold in the leg vicegrip into looking like legit suffocation. All the while, Morrison is selling his knee tremendously while still getting in his little bits of offense. 

Ultimately, Morrison took one too many risks and got eliminated, but dude was the star of this match. And after all that has occurred, we get the one complaint about this match: it ends way too damn early in the most anti-climatic fashion. What should have been time allocated for an extended Punk/Cena sequence turns into one AA and the end. It's a complaint, but it doesn't take away the half-hour of greatness.

Across the board, this is undoubtedly a great PPV. Everybody came in the arena to put on their best performances. Two great elimination chamber matches and lots of fun undercard matches. What more can you ask for? Now off to Wrestlemania XXVII. Hopefully I can find something positive out of it.



Spoiler: THELIST



1. Edge vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Big Show vs. Kane vs. Drew McIntyre vs. Wade Barrett (Elimination Chamber)
2. CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. Sheamus vs. John Morrison vs. Randy Orton vs. R-Truth (Elimination Chamber)
3. Edge vs. Dolph Ziggler (Royal Rumble)
4. The Miz vs. Jerry Lawler (Elimination Chamber)
5. Alberto Del Rio vs. Kofi Kingston (Elimination Chamber)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well thank goodness someone else can see that Del Rio/Kofi is a great match and not be blinded by the fact that it's Kofi Kingston and automatically hate it. Can't say I agree on the rest of it though.  You're like a half star or more higher than me on the entire rest of the card. I was never able to get into the main event on that show. Far below the awesome Smackdown Chamber.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I've never actually seen any of the Chamber matches from 2011-2013. This year was the first one I watched live since 2010. 2005 will always be my favorite, then 2008's (Both Raw and SD were tremendous) and of course 2002. After that I'm not really big on any of the other ones, so maybe I should give 2011 a chance.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2011 ones are tremendous, 2013 was very good but underwhelming. For the 2012 ones, Smackdown one was definitely the standout, w/Santino's career performance and true badassness by Show, Bryan and Barrett, in spite of a rather dull start. Raw one was very MOVES~ esque, but enjoyable.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The King/Miz match is awesome from what I remember & that SmackDown chamber match was just fantastic.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

SD EC in 2011 is GOAT with EVERYONE bringing their A game, might rewatch some chamber shows later 

Cjack you need to get on the 2011, my second or third favorite


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The Smackdown Elimination Chamber match in 2011 is indeed awesome. Drew McIntyre killing dudes :mark: and I loved how Edge and Mysterio were the first two and the final two with great back and forth action towards the end. Top 3 Elimination Chamber match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I just went on a long Cesaro marathon, watching the Sheamus (all of them), Kofi (Main Event only), Cena and Kane matches. 

The Cena Tribute To The Troops match is easily the least remarkable out of these, but what the hell, it's still pretty enjoyable considering it was a go-easy match w/both men obviously backing down. However, the 2014 match COMPLETELY turns that out the door. Both men were clearly not backing down from anything - they just threw it all into battleground and my God it paid off. Cesaro's second best singles match in WWE behind the clash w/Zayn at Arrival, this war of superhuman counters had my jaw dropped the first time I saw it, and it still drops my jaw today. Truly incredible stuff.

Second to the Cena TOTT match as the least remarkable out of these is the Kane match, but still, it's a superfun knockdown hoss fight between two brutes. Oh, and Tony yodeling to the ring was hilariously bad, but still hilarious. Give these two a longer match on a bigger scale and you have success. Then you have the Kofi stuff. Now, both of these matches were basically the Cesaro Show. However, one more so than the other. The September match was clearly more evened, but it was still a big time showcase for Tony. It was pretty good overall. But nothing can compare to what he did on the May match. Confession: it was actually the 1st time I ever watched that match. Yup, it's true. And it blew me away. Cesaro blew me away to be more precise. Other than Bret and Bulldog in 1992, can't think of a greater carryjob since Kofi did basically nothing in that match.

And then you have Sheamus. Boy. Whenever those two were in the ring together, violence just gets turned up quite a few notches. The Champion vs. Champion match in 2012 was pretty stunning in of itself. Cesaro's first of only two Alphamare Waterslides in WWE took place there. The very second was shown off in one of the most brilliant sprints of 2013 on Smackdown. Quite NASTY in a few words was that match. But nothing they've done so far can remotely come close to their Main Event match last year. If the Smackdown match was a great sprint, the Main Event one was even greater. Kicking myself in the nuts for - again - never watching it before. Jesus, these two just have insane chemistry together. But then again, who doesn't Sheamus have chemistry with? ADR would be a good call if they didn't have NOC 2012 and Raw last year to back it up greatly. I do know Cesaro has no chemistry with RVD though, but that's an exception. The 2014 Main Event match was very good, but it's just a placeholder before they have a bigger match, hopefully at Payback.

RATINGS:
vs Sheamus 2012: ***1/2
vs Cena Tribute To The Troops: **3/4
vs Kane: ***
vs Kofi May: ***3/4
vs Sheamus Smackdown: ***1/2
vs Sheamus ME 2013: ****
vs Kofi September: ***1/4
vs Cena Raw 2014: ****1/4
vs Sheamus ME 2014: ***1/2


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Who do you guys take as the better ring worker? Cesaro or Rollins?


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

King Kai Guy said:


> Who do you guys take as the better ring worker? Cesaro or Rollins?


Rollins bc he takes bumps better. Offensively they are both superb!


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

King Kai Guy said:


> Who do you guys take as the better ring worker? Cesaro or Rollins?


Honestly, Rollins. I can't really explain, I just do. Not to say Cesaro is not a great ring worker because he's freaking awesome, but my preferences go towards Rollins.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'd argue Cesaro is the best wrestler on the roster currently, him and Bryan are truly on the same level 1 and 1a IMO


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

King Kai Guy said:


> Who do you guys take as the better ring worker? Cesaro or Rollins?


Swiss Bliss


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I think Rollins is only slightly better than Cesaro, since he's just as gold in control and he busts out the better and nuttiest flips. Plus, in Tag action, he's perfection.



Rah said:


> Swiss Bliss


Please don't mention the word BLISS. I'll get a boner just of thinking about it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Have you seen that ECW 3 way between Henry/Finlay/Bourne that Flux posted a few days ago? I'd love to see a gif of that AWESOME "fuck off" kick Henry gives Bourne. Henry is mauling Finlay and Just as soon as Henry tosses Finlay away, Bourne tries to sneak up behind him but Henry turns right in time and throws this nasty side kick directly into Bournes gut causing him to collapse and die for a moment or two. It's just a wonderful little spot.


Of course.

Was so hyped around that time when Bourne was getting his chance to shine & get a crack at the ECW Championship. Follow that triple threat up w/the great match vs Hardy & then the next night on RAW vs Mysterio. Sweet nectar.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Well thank goodness someone else can see that Del Rio/Kofi is a great match and not be blinded by the fact that it's Kofi Kingston and automatically hate it.


Terrible assumption. Some could just realize it's sub-par and not care. But lets not jump the gun and rule that out now...


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Cesaro fo sure.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

ATF said:


> I think Rollins is only slightly better than Cesaro, since he's just as gold in control and he busts out the better and nuttiest flips. Plus, in Tag action, he's perfection.
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't mention the word *BLISS*. I'll get a boner just of thinking about it.

















kada :agree:

She isn't too bad in the ring, actually pretty good from what I've seen.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

She's been really bad. Wreck vs Charlotte will live forever...for the rest of the year.

this site and dames that are hot in wrestling though. jesus, it's bad.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dude, she's been in the ring for only 8 months - and yet still better than 3/4 of the entire women's locker room. And she's fucking hot. 

And what's the problem with marking out over a fucking hot lady that may be no Trish Stratus but she's still not too bad? Plus, that match was with CHARLOTTE. Charlotte is pretty bad if you ask me, of course it would be rather disappointing in the long run.

ALEXA IS BLISS. Go home, Paramore fan. :shaq

EDIT:


King Kai Guy said:


> kada :agree:
> 
> She isn't too bad in the ring, actually pretty good from what I've seen.


You sir totally know what you're talking about.

Now...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Well, just got home from playin hoops at my buddies house and guess what was on my front door step?.....The Punk vs Joe set I ordered from ROH.com a week ago. Don't you love it when you order something and totally forget about it because it takes longer than 3 days to arrive and then all of the sudden one day, boom, it's like Christmas. This will be my first viewing of ANY Punk vs Joe match so to say I'm excited is an understatement. I've intentionally stayed away from reading anything about them. I have no clue who wins any of the matches (although I know Joe is champ going in so that's a minor give away) so this should be an excellent way to spend the next 2 hours until I have to meet some friends.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Things have officially bottomed out.

Cjack, I almost spoiled the goods for you after I read that post. Ha. Crisis averted.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Breh, :westbrook5


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Fuck, I actually forgot I have a girlfriend because of Alexa. Still, BLISS.

Oh and Skins, you can't talk either since you're a fan of Eva Marie. :angel


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Cesaro>Rollins imo. I'd honestly like to see Seth in more one on one matches where he isn't jumping all over the place.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Well, just got home from playin hoops at my buddies house and guess what was on my front door step?.....The Punk vs Joe set I ordered from ROH.com a week ago. Don't you love it when you order something and totally forget about it because it takes longer than 3 days to arrive and then all of the sudden one day, boom, it's like Christmas. *This will be my first viewing of ANY Punk vs Joe match so to say I'm excited is an understatement.* I've intentionally stayed away from reading anything about them. I have no clue who wins any of the matches (although I know Joe is champ going in so that's a minor give away) so this should be an excellent way to spend the next 2 hours until I have to meet some friends.


Prepare to change underwear.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> She's been really bad. Wreck vs Charlotte will live forever...for the rest of the year.
> 
> this site and dames that are hot in wrestling though. jesus, it's bad.


Pretty good for WWE's standards. This isn't one of those insane Japanese chicks that kill each other (even though it is awesome).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Not to mention, Alexa/Alicia was pretty good for a debut match. That's good enough for me. ALEXA.

Now Chris/Wolverine, Punk/Joe II will make you shit your pants. I almost guarantee that.

And btw, what is the general consensus on that Punk/Hero TLC match from IWA?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kai Guy said:


> Pretty good for WWE's standards. This isn't one of those insane Japanese chicks that kill each other (even though it is awesome).


I love comments like this. It's officially accepting bad wrestling. Ok, new non-shit topic b/c this nonsense can be saved for the WOW section..



Xanadu.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, if you only knew what accepting bad wrestling is... have you ever seen the wrestling-related world in places like comments on YouTube or Facebook, or even some e-feds? Oh yeah. If you haven't, please don't try it. You're only wasting down IQ points.

Anyways, me wants to watch some *YOSHIHIKO*. AKA baddest dummy ever. Anything cool from "his" that's not vs Kenny Omega?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I too havent seen any Punk/Joe match and I think I will buy the DVD when I get paid soon, how much did it cost Cjack?


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

ATF said:


> Oh, if you only knew what accepting bad wrestling is... have you ever seen the wrestling-related world in places like comments on YouTube or Facebook, or even some e-feds? Oh yeah. If you haven't, please don't try it. You're only wasting down IQ points.
> 
> Anyways, me wants to watch some *YOSHIHIKO*. AKA baddest dummy ever. Anything cool from "his" that's not vs *Kenny Omega*?


First person I've heard say his name other than myself on these forums.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

YOSHIHIKO has only basically been the rival to Golden Lovers, but he worked a tag match vs Taka Michinoku. You can look for that.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> YOSHIHIKO has only basically been the rival to Golden Lovers, but he worked a tag match vs *Taka Michinoku*. You can look for that.


Now that you mention TAKA, what are some good matches of his?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Phenomenal.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> YOSHIHIKO has only basically been the rival to Golden Lovers, but he worked a tag match vs Taka Michinoku. You can look for that.


TAKA vs YOSHIHIKO? Blood's spilling out of my mouth in pure markdom. A tag match you say... I'll check it out.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Phenomenal.


Thanks, bro.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tried to google it to no avail. Do you remember who their partners were?


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

King Kai Guy said:


> kada :agree:
> 
> She isn't too bad in the ring, actually pretty good from what I've seen.


I haven't seen NXT in like 3 weeks, but :kobe6


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THE UNDERTAKER YOSHIHIKO & Dino vs Taka & Antonio Honda.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Ratings for Elimination Chamber 2014:

*Intercontinental Championship*: Big E vs. Jack Swagger - ***1/2

*WWE Tag Team Championship*: The New Age Outlaws vs. The Usos - **3/4

Darren Young vs. Titus O'Neil - **

The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family - ****

*Divas Championship*: AJ Lee vs. Cameron - **

Batista vs. Alberto Del Rio - **3/4

*Elimination Chamber Match for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship*: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan vs. John Cena vs. Cesaro vs. Christian vs. Sheamus - ***3/4

Probably one of the best February PPVs ever, counting the 2013 show, 2009, 2008, and 2001.

-Big E/Swagger is a blast. The wrestling, the power moves, the chemistry is quite good. These two get 12 minutes but they make the most of it. This is a classic opener--fast, effective, and gets you excited for the rest of the show.

-NAO/Usos is solid, I suppose. It obviously belonged on RAW, but it was fine for what it was.

-Young/O'Neil was so so. Again, decent for RAW, but at 6 minutes and no real feud, it was just passable.

-Wyatts/Shield is the dream match you hoped it would be. Everyone shines here, the wrestling is gold, there's not a dull moment, Reigns looks like a star at the end, and this gets more than enough time. Already a MOTYC.

-Divas Title is solid but short.

-I liked Batista/Del Rio the same way I liked Batista/Booker from SummerSlam '06--it was entertaining for the time that it got, not a classic by any means, but well structured, and I liked how the match started. This is a squash all the way, but a fun one.

-EC is somewhere in between all rest. It's the not a classic like '02, '05, SD '09, SD '11, but not a dud like the ECW one or the other from 2006. It's a damn good match, with everyone looking great before WM. I really loved how they made you think Bryan could win in the last stop before WM, so that made the Orton/Bryan segment very intriguing.


All in all, one of the best February PPVs ever, helped by a MOTYC and a very good main event with a solid undercard. Onto WrestleMania...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah forget it, I am seeing that right now before you posted it but I didn't knew it was it :lmao

YOSHIHIKO > Bryan and Ibushi combined. He could be wrestling FOREVER and he'd still be in his prime.

Oh, and StraightEdgeJesus, you've missed out a lot of BLISS. And :banderas at those pics again.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

ATF said:


> Oh yeah forget it, I am seeing that right now before you posted it but I didn't knew it was it :lmao
> 
> *YOSHIHIKO > Bryan and Ibushi* combined. He could be wrestling FOREVER and he'd still be in his prime.
> 
> Oh, and StraightEdgeJesus, you've missed out a lot of BLISS. And :banderas at those pics again.


:ti

Okay, now you've gone too far, brother.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Kota Ibushi vs. YOSHIHIKO is a legit four star match, brothers.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

King Kai Guy said:


> :ti
> 
> Okay, now you've gone too far, brother.












But I wouldn't put it past just that quite frankly. :hayley2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not denying the glory of YOSHIHIKO, but lets not sleep on the rest of DDT over the years. Promotion is quite the blast to watch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, the whole of DDT is fucking awesome. That Appartment Complex special was so :mark:, and so are the Campsite episodes. So much FUN.

I wouldn't mind watching a whole day of IRONMAN HEAVYMETALWEIGHT TITLE defenses at all. Makes the Hardcore Title look like the Divas Title in the Fun-O-Meter. DDT.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Isn't DDT the promotion that had Kenny Omega wrestle a 9 year old girl? That was entertaining as hell.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes it is. Oh by the way, THE LADDER is the greatest champion in DDT history. Just saying.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep.

Jheri probably hates me right now. but it's not like I'm only trying to acknowledge the zany aspects of the company. DDT's Openweight Championship does a great job at garnering so much heat & excitement w/the matches. Loyal fan base is always immensely into it. Pretty great. And then someone like Shigehiro Irie comes along. All day.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The girl could WORK.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> I too havent seen any Punk/Joe match and I think I will buy the DVD when I get paid soon, how much did it cost Cjack?



It was $20. It comes with the 3 big matches they had in 2004, the first match they ever had back in 2003, and then hour long shoot interviews for both guys talking about the feud and the matches and what not. It's two discs. It's not cheap but I just said fuck it. I've just heard so much hype over the years about the series they had that I wanted to experience it in great quality for the first time. What really sold me was the interviews, I don't know why but I just love listening to wrestlers talk shop about their matches and their mindset for what they did. If you aren't as into that sort of thing as I am, and don't care about the video quality, I'd just try to find some links on the internet. 

I'll let you know how I feel about my purchase in a few hours when I'm done watching 



Hayley Seydoux said:


> I love comments like this. It's officially accepting bad wrestling. Ok, new non-shit topic b/c this nonsense can be saved for the WOW section..
> 
> 
> 
> Xanadu.



I feel the same way man. It's like when people say "it's good for a Kofi Kingston match....". No, it isn't. It's either a good wrestling match or a bad wrestling match. Or even when someone says "it's bad for a Steve Austin match....". Does that mean it's still a good match? Yes? Then it's a good match so shut it.

Just starting the first match. Oh shit totally forgot about Punk coming out to Miseria by AFI :mark: AND JOE COMING OUT TO "THE CHAMP IS HERE" BY MY FAVORITE RAPPER EVER, JADA! :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Yep.
> 
> Jheri probably hates me right now. but it's not like I'm only trying to acknowledge the zany aspects of the company. DDT's Openweight Championship does a great job at garnering so much heat & excitement w/the matches. Loyal fan base is always immensely into it. Pretty great. And then someone like Shigehiro Irie comes along. All day.


I haven't been following too much now, but I've heard Jun Akiyama is one of the champions. Pretty cool, liked him since the Kobashi match on NOAH.

Oh, and IRONMAN HEAVYMETALWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP ftw. That right there is the best thing about DDT easily. And DDT rules.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Twenty clams for all of that - which is rare now on DVD - is a fair price if you ask me. You'll get your fill of what you purchased too. Been wanting to scoop up so many of those ROH sets, but I always do a scavenger hunt for their full shows instead & just binge on those. Tyler Black & Jimmy Jacobs sets are ones I can't possibly hold off on for much longer tho.

Akiyama is the Ironman Champion, btw. _(or maybe he lost it by now..)_ Way he won it was memorable to say the least.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, he is. Like that. Seriously like that.

Now I'm getting into the mood for the greatest of all greatest times - MISUTERO THE INVISIBLE CHINESE ONE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just watch more Shigehiro Irie. Like really. He had a tag vs Akiyama that rules. A pair of 'em, but one at least from DDT. Other was a trios from the ever fabulous All Japan Pro Wrestling. Which is w/o a doubt the best promotion to never get any chatter from a majority. Nix out one minor area of disappointment _(ok, I guess not minor b/c it involves their Junior Championship)_ & then the rest is vindication.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> I too havent seen any Punk/Joe match and I think I will buy the DVD when I get paid soon, how much did it cost Cjack?


Punk vs Joe II
Punk vs Joe III

I think most can agree that Punk vs Joe I is no big loss. It's not bad by any means but the other two are in a class of their own.

Starrcade 96

Ultimo Dragon (c) vs Dean Malenko (c) - ****1/4

Madusa vs. Akira Hokuto - **

Jushin Liger vs. Rey Mysterio - ***3/4

Chris Benoit vs. Jeff Jarrett - No DQ match - ***3/4

Outsiders vs. Faces of Fear - ***1/4

DDP vs. Eddie - *** 

Lex Luger vs. The Giant - **3/4 

Hogan vs. Piper - *1/4. 

Lex/Giant, even giving it only **3/4, I really liked this match. It was a shame that there was a screwy ending. Fun watching the wheels fall off of the NWO. It's crazy to think that it went on for idk how much longer after this (like two years? more?) because this should've been the beginning of the end within 6 months of this. Totally recommend this ppv. Without the main event it would've been up there for one of the best.

8.5/10


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starrcade 1996 rules. Only match I'm not really into is Hogan vs Piper, but even then, it's one of the more tolerable matches for me during Hogan's main event stretch. Dusty on commentary & a fan attempting to ruin the finish assist in the fun.

Liger being an absolute dick to Mysterio. My heart soars.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Yeah, it was pretty sad that Randy Anderson stomping a fan was the highlight of the match. 

Thanks for merging my posts. I was too lazy to edit.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> The girl could WORK.


Isn't depressing that a nine year old girl worked better than Khali in 90% of his matches? And I :mark:ed for the time stop enzuigiri.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

*Punk vs Joe I: "The Wrestling Classic" in Dayton, Ohio*

Tentative start to the match with lots of good mat work. Joe shows respect to Punk when he resists the urge to strike a downed Punk in the back of the head and instead lets him up. Love smart little things like Punk being whipped into the ropes, and then Punk sees Joe drop down, and instead of running over him Punk drops down and goes for another headlock. Punk is constantly trying to stay in contact with Joe and to wear him down with headlocks. Joe rolls out and proceeds to Punk out a CM Punk fan, one of my favorite moments in the early going. Story so far has been Punk trying to keep a hold on to Joe and keep him close to avoid being brutalized by Joes vicious strikes. Jesus, Joe is just slapping and kicking the ever loving shit out of Punk. Commentator " That face has just GOTTA be crushed" :lmao. Joe just continues to punish Punk, setting him up 3 separate times for the "Ole Ole" kicks into the guardrail. He follows it with some nasty, nasty kicks into the corner and then a FOURTH "Ole Ole" kick! I don't know why I am surprised by this, but the level of selling from BOTH guys, but especially Punk, is just fantastic. Not common to see such young guys grasp how important and crucial proper selling is to having a great match. It's something many people today still haven't grasped. Punk finds an opening and smartly goes for an Indian Deathlock to try and take Joes legs out from under him. I guess Punk is tired of being repeatedly kicked in the face :lmao. Joe counters the hold in the nastiest way possible, with some just brutal, vicious, repeated headbutts right to Punks FACE. Punk quickly goes back to the headlock. Joe manages to get up and counters with a WICKED enzugiri! This is the point when I realized I was witnessing GREATNESS. Big time side suplex off the top rope by Punk to Joe. Joe is at his best when he's being a cocky, vicious, brutal asshole. He grabs Punk by the hair, lifts his head off the ground, and then REPEATEDLY kicks Punk right in the fucking FACE. Love the near fall sequence they work after this, at about the 45 minute mark or so. Both guys are just total spent, you can tell they are dying to end this thing. Then Joe crushes Punks FACE with a Lariat that would leave Stan Hansen smiling  Punk manages to work his way back into the fight and hits Joe with the PEPSI PLUNGE. Is it over? NO, Punk hits with such force that he bounces out of the ring, leaving him unable to capitalize. Punk realizes his time is almost up, but he is just so spent, he doesn't have anything left at this point. Joe isn't satisfied with a draw, so he sets Punk up on the top rope and does this sweet looking top rope Scorpion Death Drop/Reverse DDT. It's not enough to get a victory. As he's pulling Punk to his feet, Punk quickly catches Joe with a DDT of his own, but hes so gassed he can't even cover Joe immediately. He finally throws and arm over Joe for the pin fall but Joe kicks out at 2 as the time expires.

What a fucking match. Absolutely awesome. It's not often that an hour draw holds my attention the entire time, but this one managed to. This wasn't perfect, and I do feel both guys have it in them to do better. But still, what a hell of a way to start off a feud. 

Final Rating: *****1/4*


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think I preferred Joe/Punk I to III.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I've never actually seen any of the Chamber matches from 2011-2013. This year was the first one I watched live since 2010. 2005 will always be my favorite, then 2008's (Both Raw and SD were tremendous) and of course 2002. After that I'm not really big on any of the other ones, so maybe I should give 2011 a chance.


I hate Elimination Chambers and thought the SD2011 one was excellent. So yeah, at least watch that.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

But you're always a contrarian so you don't count.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^8*D

Did the set put in the post-match promo by Punk following the first match? b/c that would be a neat addition. I'm guessing they probably didn't.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I tried to watch Joe/Punk II once a few years back and couldnt get into it, just to many headlock iirc. I remember someone telling me you had to understand the context of the feud + match to understand and enjoy the matches. My taste in wrestling has VASTLY changed so I'll give it a try


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's predicated on the headlock, but certainly done in a fashion that's made it earn the praise it receives. I really HAVE to see all these over again. I know II & III were posted a page back, but I want to see all three in order.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Same, would if anyone could link I be great or its date


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

nvm lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> ^8*D
> 
> Did the set put in the post-match promo by Punk following the first match? b/c that would be a neat addition. I'm guessing they probably didn't.


You know I'll have to check because after Homicide did his thing I popped the disc out and put in the second one to listen to their shoot interview about the first match. I wish I hadn't cause they mention in the interview that the second match goes an hour so that sorta spoiled the finish. Then again it's blatantly obvious if it's a 3 match feud and the first match goes an hour, that second one will be a draw as well so it's no biggie. I'm gonna go check the second match in the series now. Two one hour draws in one day? There is a first for everything I suppose.

Skins- all I can say is dude, having only seen the first match, and knowing the other two are much higher praised, it's worth the time to watch them for sure I can't imagine you not enjoying them. The first match literally seemed like it was about 35 minutes. The headlocks in that match definitely fit the story and they are actually worked holds, not rest holds.

Bringing this all back to a WWE topic-do you think in this day and age WWE could air an hour draw? Assuming, you know, they bring time limits back and all. I'm not talking an Ironman match I mean a legit broadway. And if so, who do you think would be the guys to do it with?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wait till you hear more stories about the second match. Should make the appreciation higher after you see it. I'm saying all of this w/the memories that these matches hold up. But I know they should.

WWE 60 minute draw seems unlikely. Ironman is a different ballpark, tho. But for the hypothetical, you're going to get a lot of the same responses dealing w/all the talented cats who had great exposure from the indies. Danielson is the best man for the spot. In terms of ability to do it and his importance right now. Opponent? Ahh...going by the roster, Cesaro may work. Never seen him go THAT long though before, which is why I'm only in the dark behind it. I'm sure he may be able to do it. However, his longest match I can remember went 50 minutes and it was one of the most painful matches I've ever seen. It was a tag match, tbf. Basically my answer here is Danielson and whomever he can carry to the point of going 60 minutes. Cena would be rad. I'd love to see that.

Danielson vs Solomon Crowe. Ok, I'm gonna pick that. Salivating & I'm no different than anyone else in this situation.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Cena vs Bryan in a 60 minute match? :mark:

Hopefully, it'll be one of those matches where Cena brings his A game. God forbids Bryan beats him for 59 minutes straight only for him to make DAT COMEBACK in the last minute.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of HEADLOCK matches, I really need to watch some more old school Flair stuff. Clash of the Champions is the only Steamboat match from their trilogy that I have yet to see. I still have to largely force myself to enjoy the methodical old school style but since my appreciation for Naitch only grows with time, I may enjoy it just about enough without having to count the time until it ends. 

For those who care, my top 100 Orton matches list is now updated with all the goodies since last summer added plus a few other modifications that I can't be arsed to highlight.



Spoiler: updated list



100. Randy Orton vs Hulk Hogan – SummerSlam 2006
99. Randy Orton vs Batista – Armageddon 2008
98. Randy Orton vs John Cena (TLC) – TLC 2013
97. Randy Orton vs CM Punk (Last Man Standing) – Extreme Rules 2011
96. Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett (No Disqualification) – Smackdown, 3 February 2012
95. Randy Orton vs Kane – Wrestlemania XXVIII
94. Randy Orton vs Christian vs Rob Van Dam – Smackdown, 27 July 2013 
93. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Big Show vs Triple H – Raw, 15 June 2009 
92. Randy Orton vs Shane McMahon (No Holds Barred) – No Way Out 2009
91. Randy Orton, JBL & Finlay vs Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley – Smackdown, 24 February 2006
90. Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio – Hell in a Cell 2012
89. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus vs CM Punk vs Christian vs Rob Van Dam (Ladder Match) – Money in the Bank 2013
88. Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler – Raw, 29 August 2011
87. Evolution vs Shelton Benjamin, Edge & Tajiri – Raw, 3 May 2004
86. Legacy & CM Punk vs DX, John Cena & Undertaker – Smackdown, 2 October 2009
85. Randy Orton vs Christian – Capitol Punishment 2011
84. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Raw, 18 April 2011
83. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Cyber Sunday 2007
82. Randy Orton vs Sheamus vs Chris Jericho vs Alberto del Rio – Over the Limit 2012
81. Randy Orton & Batista vs Chris Benoit & Edge – Raw, 17 May 2004
80. Randy Orton vs Jack Swagger vs Chris Jericho vs Mark Henry vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane (Elimination Chamber) – Elimination Chamber 2013
79. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Armageddon 2007
78. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Smackdown, 14 April 2006
77. Rated RKO vs Batista & Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 February 2007
76. Randy Orton vs Christian – Money in the Bank 2011
75. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry – Hell in a Cell 2011
74. Randy Orton vs Sheamus – Smackdown, 18 May 2012
73. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Night of Champions 2013
72. Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Edge – Raw, 2 August 2004
71. Legacy vs Triple H, Shane McMahon & Batista – Backlash 2009
70. Randy Orton vs Jeff Hardy – Royal Rumble 2008
69. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Vengeance 2006
68. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Wrestlemania XXVII
67. Randy Orton vs Christian – Raw, 14 February 2005
66. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Unforgiven 2003
65. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Raw, 5 July 2004
64. Evolution vs Rock n’ Sock Connection – Wrestlemania XX
63. Team Orton vs Team Triple H – Survivor Series 2004
62. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Royal Rumble 2005
61. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 11 November 2005
60. Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes (Street Fight) – Smackdown, 4 November 2011
59. Randy Orton vs Antonio Cesaro – Main Event, 8 May 2013
58. Randy Orton vs Triple H vs JBL vs John Cena – Backlash 2008
57. Randy Orton vs John Cena – Raw, 10 February 2014
56. Randy Orton vs Kane (Falls Count Anywhere) – Extreme Rules 2012
55. Randy Orton vs Shelton Benjamin – Bad Blood 2004 
54. Randy Orton vs Goldust – Raw, 9 September 2013
53. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Smackdown, 21 June 2013
52. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 18 August 2005
51. Randy Orton vs Ric Flair – Taboo Tuesday 2004
50. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 19 July 2004
49. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield – Smackdown, 14 June 2013
48. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho vs Edge – Raw, 19 July 2010
47. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan (Street Fight) – Raw, 24 June 2013
46. Randy Orton vs John Cena (Ironman) – Bragging Rights 2009
45. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – Armageddon 2003
44. Randy Orton vs Christian (Steel Cage) – Smackdown, 30 August 2011
43. Randy Orton vs John Cena – SummerSlam 2007
42. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry – Night of Champions 2011
41. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Triple H – Wrestlemania XXIV
40. Randy Orton vs Sheamus – Hell in a Cell 2010
39. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – Raw, 12 January 2004
38. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield – Raw, 3 June 2013
37. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Last Man Standing) – Raw, 22 June 2009
36. Randy Orton vs John Cena (I Quit) – Breaking Point 2009
35. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 13 December 2004
34. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 30 December 2005
33. Randy Orton vs Antonio Cesaro – Smackdown, 14 February 2014
32. Randy Orton vs Edge – Vengeance 2004
31. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Daniel Bryan vs Cesaro vs Sheamus vs Christian – Elimination Chamber 2014
30. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 September 2005
29. Randy Orton vs Christian – Smackdown, 6 May 2011
28. Rated RKO vs DX – New Year’s Revolution 2007
27. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 30 April 2007
26. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Edge vs Shawn Michaels – Backlash 2007
25. Evolution (Orton, Flair & Batista) vs Chris Benoit, Edge & Chris Jericho – Raw, 14 June 2004
24. Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Mick Foley, Shawn Michaels & Shelton Benjamin – Raw, 12 April 2004
23. Team Smackdown vs Team Raw – Survivor Series 2005
22. Randy Orton & "Cowboy" Bob Orton Jr. vs Undertaker (Handicap Casket) – No Mercy 2005
21. Team Bischoff vs Team Austin – Survivor Series 2003
20. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – No Way Out 2006
19. Evolution vs The Shield – Extreme Rules 2014
18. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – Wrestlemania 21
17. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Raw, 16 December 2013
16. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Raw, 16 August 2004
15. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – SummerSlam 2005
14. Randy Orton vs John Cena – No Way Out 2008
13. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Raw, 3 February 2014
12. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Survivor Series 2007
11. Randy Orton vs Christian (No Holds Barred) – SummerSlam 2011
10. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan vs Batista – Wrestlemania XXX
9. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit (No Holds Barred) – Smackdown, 27 January 2006
8. Randy Orton vs Christian - Over the Limit 2011
7. Randy Orton vs Triple H vs Batista vs Chris Benoit vs Edge vs Chris Jericho (Elimination Chamber) – New Year’s Revolution 2005
6. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Last Man Standing) – No Mercy 2007
5. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown, 7 April 2006
4. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 13 January 2006
3. Randy Orton vs Undertaker (Hell in a Cell) - Armageddon 2005
2. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - SummerSlam 2004
1. Randy Orton vs Cactus Jack (Hardcore Match) - Backlash 2004



For comparison's sake:



Spoiler: original list from last July



100. Randy Orton vs Hulk Hogan – SummerSlam 2006
99. Randy Orton vs Batista – Armageddon 2008
98. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Unforgiven 2004
97. Randy Orton vs CM Punk (Last Man Standing) – Extreme Rules 2011
96. Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett (No Disqualification) – Smackdown, 3 February 2012
95. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Steel Cage) – Judgment Day 2008
94. Randy Orton vs Kane – Wrestlemania XXVIII
93. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Raw, 7 June 2004
92. Rated RKO vs Shawn Michaels & John Cena – Raw, 26 February 2007
91. Randy Orton vs Kane (Street Fight) – Smackdown, 22 July 2011
90. Randy Orton vs Shane McMahon (No Holds Barred) – No Way Out 2009
89. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Big Show vs Triple H – Raw, 15 June 2009
88. Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio – Hell in a Cell 2012
87. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 1 September 2005
86. Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio & Kurt Angle vs Triple H & John Cena – Saturday Night’s Main Event, 18 March 2006
85. Randy Orton, JBL & Finlay vs Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley – Smackdown, 24 February 2006
84. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – One Night Stand 2006
83. Rated RKO, MVP & Mr. Kennedy vs John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker & Batista – Raw, 12 February 2007
82. Evolution vs Shelton Benjamin, Edge & Tajiri – Raw, 3 May 2004
81. Money in the Bank III – Wrestlemania 23
80. Randy Orton vs Christian – Capitol Punishment 2011
79. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Raw, 18 April 2011
78. Randy Orton vs Sheamus vs Chris Jericho vs Alberto del Rio – Over the Limit 2012
77. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Smackdown, 10 February 2012
76. Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler – Raw, 29 August 2011
75. Money in the Bank (Raw) – Money in the Bank 2010
74. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Smackdown, 14 April 2006
73. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Cyber Sunday 2007
72. Rated RKO vs Batista & Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 February 2007
71. Legacy & CM Punk vs DX, John Cena & Undertaker – Smackdown, 2 October 2009
70. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry – Hell in a Cell 2011
69. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Armageddon 2007
68. Randy Orton vs Christian – Money in the Bank 2011
67. Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Edge – Raw, 2 August 2004
66. Legacy vs Triple H, Shane McMahon & Batista – Backlash 2009
65. Randy Orton vs Jeff Hardy – Royal Rumble 2008
64. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Vengeance 2006
63. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Wrestlemania XXVII
62. Randy Orton vs Christian – Raw, 14 February 2005
61. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Unforgiven 2003
60. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Raw, 5 July 2004
59. Evolution vs Rock n’ Sock Connection – Wrestlemania XX
58. Team Orton vs Team Triple H – Survivor Series 2004
57. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Royal Rumble 2005
56. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 11 November 2005
55. Randy Orton vs Jack Swagger vs Chris Jericho vs Mark Henry vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane (Elimination Chamber) – Elimination Chamber 2013
54. Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes (Street Fight) – Smackdown, 4 November 2011
53. Randy Orton vs Antonio Cesaro – Main Event, 8 May 2013
52. Randy Orton vs Shelton Benjamin – Bad Blood 2004
51. Randy Orton vs Sheamus – Smackdown, 18 May 2012
50. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 18 August 2005
49. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 19 July 2004
48. Randy Orton vs Triple H vs JBL vs John Cena – Backlash 2008
47. Randy Orton vs Ric Flair – Taboo Tuesday 2004
46. Randy Orton vs Kane (Falls Count Anywhere) – Extreme Rules 2012
45. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield – Smackdown, 14 June 2013
44. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – Raw, 12 January 2004
43. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Smackdown, 21 June 2013
42. Randy Orton vs John Cena (Ironman) – Bragging Rights 2009
41. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – Armageddon 2003
40. Randy Orton vs Christian (Steel Cage) – Smackdown, 30 August 2011
39. Randy Orton vs John Cena – SummerSlam 2007
38. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry – Night of Champions 2011
37. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 30 December 2005
36. Randy Orton vs Sheamus – Hell in a Cell 2010
35. Randy Orton vs John Cena (I Quit) – Breaking Point 2009
34. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield – Raw, 3 June 2013
33. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho vs Edge – Raw, 19 July 2010
32. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan (Street Fight) – Raw, 24 June 2013
31. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 13 December 2004
30. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Last Man Standing) – Raw, 22 June 2009
29. The Royal Rumble Match – Royal Rumble 2009
28. Randy Orton vs Edge – Vengeance 2004
27. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Triple H – Wrestlemania XXIV
26. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 September 2005
25. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 30 April 2007
24. Rated RKO vs DX – New Year’s Revolution 2007
23. Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Mick Foley, Shawn Michaels & Shelton Benjamin – Raw, 12 April 2004
22. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Edge vs Shawn Michaels – Backlash 2007
21. Randy Orton vs Christian – Smackdown, 6 May 2011
20. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Raw, 16 August 2004
19. Randy Orton & "Cowboy" Bob Orton Jr. vs Undertaker (Handicap Casket) – No Mercy 2005
18. Team Bischoff vs Team Austin – Survivor Series 2003
17. Evolution (Orton, Flair & Batista) vs Chris Benoit, Edge & Chris Jericho – Raw, 14 June 2004
16. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – No Way Out 2006
15. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – SummerSlam 2005
14. Team Smackdown vs Team Raw – Survivor Series 2005
13. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 13 January 2006
12. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – Wrestlemania 21
11. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Survivor Series 2007
10. Randy Orton vs John Cena – No Way Out 2008
9. Randy Orton vs Christian (No Holds Barred) – SummerSlam 2011
8. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit (No Holds Barred) – Smackdown, 27 January 2006
7. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Last Man Standing) – No Mercy 2007
6. Randy Orton vs Triple H vs Batista vs Chris Benoit vs Edge vs Chris Jericho (Elimination Chamber) – New Year’s Revolution 2005
5. Randy Orton vs Christian - Over the Limit 2011
4. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown, 7 April 2006
3. Randy Orton vs Undertaker (Hell in a Cell) - Armageddon 2005
2. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - SummerSlam 2004
1. Randy Orton vs Cactus Jack (Hardcore Match) - Backlash 2004


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:flair is GAWD, and I truly say that as objective as possible, the thing with naitch is you will always find new :mark: stuff from him constantly and when you think you have seen his best stuff there is more

So I cant find Joe/Punk I from anywhere, saw one link on myspace but the quality was horrid so I'm just watching III


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Skins did you ever watch GAB '96?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm not Smitty you cunt :kobe


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hahaha. Jesus Christ, my bad. My memory is fucking me over lately in here.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I finished GAB 96 a little while ago, I liked the show a lot par the shitty main event, big show/Giant in WCW=  to me and although Luger is at least ok in the ring this was just slow and boring. Malenko/rey, Sullivan/Benoit, and Sting/Regal were all at least **** imo

only thing this show was missing was some MENG


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hahaha. Jesus Christ, my bad. My memory is fucking me over lately in here.


Messing w/ you Corey, I plan to watch some of those 96 ppv on the network some time. Currently in mood for unk Roh stuff


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Are you guys aware there's a thread just like this over in the Other Wrestling section for ROH and indy stuff? 

CM Punk vs. Roderick Strong from ROH The Future is Now was the first rec to pop in my head. Awesome match, hell of a promo afterwards too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Wait till you hear more stories about the second match. Should make the appreciation higher after you see it. I'm saying all of this w/the memories that these matches hold up. But I know they should.
> 
> WWE 60 minute draw seems unlikely. Ironman is a different ballpark, tho. But for the hypothetical, you're going to get a lot of the same responses dealing w/all the talented cats who had great exposure from the indies. Danielson is the best man for the spot. In terms of ability to do it and his importance right now. Opponent? Ahh...going by the roster, Cesaro may work. Never seen him go THAT long though before, which is why I'm only in the dark behind it. I'm sure he may be able to do it. However, his longest match I can remember went 50 minutes and it was one of the most painful matches I've ever seen. It was a tag match, tbf. Basically my answer here is Danielson and whomever he can carry to the point of going 60 minutes. Cena would be rad. I'd love to see that.
> 
> Danielson vs Solomon Crowe. Ok, I'm gonna pick that. Salivating & I'm no different than anyone else in this situation.



See I feel the same way, Danielson is the no brainer. And it's funny cause while I'd say Cesaro and Rollins are probably right near his level of excellence, Cena is the guy I think I'd pick to be Danielson's opponent. I just think they could have a ridiculously good match, and still keep that same "spirit of athletic competition" vibe that the Punk/Joe matches had. The only other name I'd say is worthy would be Zayn, but I've never seen him go an hour so I can't speak to wether he would be a better choice than Cena. I can say that just the thought of Danielson and Zayn going an hour makes me giddy, with Zayns ridiculously amazing selling, overall passion and fire, plus that would allow Danielson to turn the viciousness up a bit without really being a heel.

Shit, if you want a great way to introduce Zayn on the main roster, have the Main Event for Raw be a 1 hour draw with Danielson in a non-title match (since it wouldn't make sense for him to have a title shot in his first match). If they pulled off a classic, I really can't think of a better way to introduce a new under dog, incredibly talented face. This is all super far fetched of course, it was just a passing thought.



sharkboy22 said:


> Cena vs Bryan in a 60 minute match? :mark:
> 
> Hopefully, it'll be one of those matches where Cena brings his A game. God forbids Bryan beats him for 59 minutes straight only for him to make DAT COMEBACK in the last minute.


I was saying a 60 minute draw, or broadway. No winners. That's why I thought it would be nearly impossible for WWE to consider doing because they don't even have time limit draws, let alone a full 60 minute draw. But out of the current main roster, Cena would be my pick for best Danielson opponent if such a match were to occur.



Choke2Death said:


> Speaking of HEADLOCK matches, I really need to watch some more old school Flair stuff. Clash of the Champions is the only Steamboat match from their trilogy that I have yet to see. I still have to largely force myself to enjoy the methodical old school style but since my appreciation for Naitch only grows with time, I may enjoy it just about enough without having to count the time until it ends.
> 
> For those who care, my top 100 Orton matches list is now updated with all the goodies since last summer added plus a few other modifications that I can't be arsed to highlight.
> 
> ...


Love the lists man, but I just don't see how that Summerslam 2004 match is his second best. Obviously I think it's great, and it's probably one of the 3-4 most important matches in Randy's career, but there are just quite a few matches I think he's had that are better. My top Orton matches would be:

1. Vs Mick Backlash 2004 *****
2. Vs Benoit SD 1/13/06 ****1/2
3. Vs Benoit Raw 8/16/04 ****1/2
4. Vs Benoit NHB SD 1/27/06 ****1/2
5. Vs Rey Mysterio SD 4/7/06 ****1/2
6. Vs Christian OTL 2011 ****1/2
7. Vs Undertaker Armageddon 2005 ****1/2
8. Vs Shawn Michaels SVS 2007 ****1/4
9. Vs Triple H LMS No Mercy 2007 ****1/4
10. Vs John Cena NWO 2008 ****1/4

That's not including tags and chamber matches, of course. Just his best straight up singles. Words can't describe how much I adore that 1/13/06 SD match he had with Benoit. I think that match is his single best showcase for just how talented he is as a performer. The Mick match is overall better, but I think Ortons best performance ever in a singles match was against Benoit that night.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Those Christian matches havent aged well AT all


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Ugh, that SS 2004 match is so bad, their TV matches though :moyes1

Watching EC 2011 :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Are you guys aware there's a thread just like this over in the Other Wrestling section for ROH and indy stuff?
> 
> CM Punk vs. Roderick Strong from ROH The Future is Now was the first rec to pop in my head. Awesome match, hell of a promo afterwards too.


Activity there is super minimal so discussion in here is fine, if you ask me. Wrestling is the relative nature of it all. Plus, only talking about WWE tripe gets boring. I like the melting pot FUN.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

thoughts on Joe/Punks from 11 months ago:



Spoiler: hfdjs



Samoa Joe v. CM Punk (World Title Classic 6/12/04)
Holds up way, way better than I thought it would. In a time where I’m all about looking up the short TV matches and find myself zoning out of most things that are long in the tooth, I was completely invested in at least 40 or 45 of these 60 minutes. The first 30-35 minutes made up a seriously excellent match. I felt they worked a little too evenly in some areas and had some mediocre sub-lucha exchanges, but all in all they predominately stuck with the theme of Punk benefitting from the mat and Joe benefitting from the strikes. Punk staying on the rest-holds was key for his own survival. He can’t out power Joe. He knows he can’t out power Joe. The fans know he can’t out power Joe. Joe knows he can’t out power Joe. I could see someone questioning why, if he can’t out power Joe, he would continue to get in a test-of-strength lock up. I thought it worked really well. I didn’t see Punk entering those kinds of strength contests to actually try to match power with Joe; I saw them as Punk trying to keep Joe away from striking. Joe’s #1 was striking. Joe can’t throw a strike if his hands are locked up, and whenever Punk got the right opportunity he’d get out of the lock up, hit Joe with something hard and usually go to a headlock. That headlock was everything. Joe could throw strikes, and Punk would obviously be affected, but that headlock could get him out of a jam. Joe’s a big dude who Punk can’t out power, so he needs to wear him down, maybe with the hopes of pulling a rope-a-dope so he can capitalise on fatigue later. Honestly the first and only time I saw this match four years ago I hated the interaction with that Punk fan at ringside. Whenever I’d see a mention of this match, I’d think of that. And honestly it was as annoying as I remembering it being, even if not as long. Joe rolls to the outside which, as the commentators pointed out, is rare. He seldom needs breathing time like that and is usually a wrecking machine, but Punk had got to him. Then he and Punk interact with that dude and I hate it. I may not have hated it in a different match, but I was having a ball with this and it felt out of line with everything. I suppose it’s a minor complaint, though. Anyway, Punk going for the ole kick and sprinting like a chickenshit when Joe came toward him was terrific. The post triple-ole kicks (that Joe hit) where Joe hits his punch/chop combo and post-face-wash running boot that Punk survived/avoided before was a great touch. I said I was invested in around 40 or 45 minutes of this, which means there were a good 15 or so I didn’t care much for, and yeah, there was. I guess ‘didn’t care for’ isn’t the right term since I suppose I’d consider it ‘decent’ at worst, but I need to be sucked in to the fullest to really throw a vote at this, and there were a few minutes where it felt like not much was happening. I didn’t like both guys going back to rest holds after the part where Joe fucks Punk up. Punk had the headlock ‘rest hold’ for bunches of the first thirty because squeezing a dude’s head is a good way to tire him out. It was smart, and a smart rest hold is a good rest hold. Once Joe tried to beat the shit out of Punk, it really felt like they should have gone straight to trying to finish the match instead of laying in a sloppy Indian deathlock or a random leg scissor. I can’t totally blame them because they have an hour to go through, but if I’m not really invested in what I’m watching, well, then, yeah. I’m not invested in what I’m watching. The actual finish run was really good. Top rope Pepsi Plunge where Punk’s damaged knee causes him to roll the outside was awesome, though, I have to say, I really thought he should have gone for the cover once he got back in the ring. Gabe tried to sell it as Joe trying to get back up, but I think “didn’t get pinfall because too much time wasted” is better than “didn’t get the pinfall because too much time wasted and didn’t even bother trying”. The last minute was OK, even if a little anti-climactic. It’d be hard to know exactly how and when to finish a broadway; the timing is rarely perfect. I can’t vote for this because the bar is too high and other matches will get in its way, but most of it was really, really, really enjoyable and I’ll have no gripes if it winds up in the overall top 100.
----------------
Joe v. Punk II – Yeah this is a lock. I wasn’t sure how it’d hold up when we started the poll, and even if I was more convinced after I thought so highly of Joe/Punk I, I wasn’t completely confident it was a lock. This was only a few months after the first match, but I totally see Punk as a more confident and high-tier challenger now. The first match kind of felt like a guy who was pushing above his weight, but managed to push hard enough. This felt like a guy who was legitimately at Samoa Joe’s level. I thought the opening stuff (which is like ten minutes in a match like this…I guess I don’t really mean ‘opening’, then) was completely brilliant. Punk now knows Joe can last an hour, so he doesn’t start headlocking and keeping holds on, that is until he realises HE can’t go an hour if a fat Samoan dude is pounding him. I love how the audience almost made a meme out the headlock, they went mad for it like the way a current crowd would for Fandango’s music. The sequences between headlocks were really awesome. Punk would get Joe in an awkward position and Joe would get legitimately pissed off, eventually rolling to the outside and not interacting with a fan stupidly but instead kicking the guardrail in frustration. Colt Cabana had recently pinned Joe without a roll up, so Punk tries a few of them to get this out of the way, too. One of my favourite things of the entire match was how Joe was getting in cheap-shot-like moves and Punk didn’t even react to them. He didn’t let Hot Head CM Punk get in the way of Smart Wrestler CM Punk, because if he did and started striking, he’d be entering a battle that Joe would win. He needed this win, especially in Chi-Town. Punk gets mauled on a couple of big spots, like the suplex on the concrete and the SWING into the barricade. He looked completely exhausted, too, and I totally bought big spot like a tope as a ditch effort to get things back in his favour. There was stuff I might have thought would have been some pretty stupid shit if this was Marufuji v. KENTA, but Punk’s selling was top notch and it actually felt like the ‘I’M NOT FUCKING STAYING DOWN THIS IS IMPORTANT TO ME’ epic crap that people usually fail to really hammer home. The fact he collapsed in a pile afterwards helped, and he looked utterly out of it even when throwing elbows. Arm work was a nice touch, even if I wished Joe had sold it more effectively. Can’t say it felt like a no-sell, though; Joe had gotten back on top and Punk couldn’t continue injuring it. When he WAS working on the arm, he was using it as leverage to get the headlock back on, and that was outstanding. Finish run was super, I loved the pepsi plunge struggle, and the fact he didn’t get to hit it at all is a great piece for Joe/Punk III to pick up. Tons of exciting near falls without a hint of going overboard, and the final muscle buster right before the count adds another layer to the story. I feel bad for not mentioning so many things about this, and it wasn’t a long hour at all. Y’all know about it now, anyway. Lock. Might hit my top half, which I guess means I could be the low voter on it, but, yeah, it’s a lock.
---------------------
I don't think I liked Joe/Punk III as much either of the first two (I sure as hell didn't like it as much as the second), but I can't complain about it. Joe knowing Punk can go an hour TWICE and having enough of this headlock bullshit and making Punk bleed was what needed to happen. I liked all of Punk's comebacks, and he was willing to kill himself to get it done. What a fucking splat he took on the floor from the dropkick. That moonsault where he pretty much kneed Joe in the head looked rough as well. I had never heard about how this match ends, and I thought Punk's arm being counted out the first time was the actual way Joe won. Totally bought it. Joe heeling it up and using the ropes on a pinfall was something I didn't expect, either. Is there any reason neither the pepsi plunge nor the muscle buster was used even once? Seemed to me like the the first two matches were basically BEGGING a third to use it. Great finish run, but I was disappointed they didn't answer the 'what if?' during it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Activity there is super minimal so discussion in here is fine, if you ask me. Wrestling is the relative nature of it all. Plus, only talking about WWE tripe gets boring. I like the melting pot FUN.


Activity is minimal cause indy wrestling sucks balls these days... but that's a different story. Maybe I was trying to get some more traffic over there. :side:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WWF Raw - March 3, 1997​*Bret Hart vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley - ** 3/4

*Intercontinental Championship*
Rocky Maivia (c) vs. Vader - ***

The Sultan vs. Flash Funk - ** 1/4

*WWF Championship*
Psycho Sid (c) vs. Mankind - ** 3/4

*European Championship - Tournament Finals*
Owen Hart vs. The British Bulldog - **** 1/4​
- Fantastic episode of RAW if you ask me. Everything up and down the card was enjoyable in some fashion. I was convinced Bret & Hunter could have a classic with enough time and a proper finish. Vader vs. Rock was pretty awesome. Nothing but power moves and top rope dives. Sid vs. Mankind was fun. One of Sid's better title matches. Austin cuts a fucking AWESOME promo about Bret in this too. Real good shit. This was my first time seeing Owen/Bulldog and it was excellent. Quite honestly one of the most crisp wrestling matches I've ever seen. Every sequences, transition, and move was executed flawlessly. Beautiful match with Bulldog assuming the face role for the time being. (Y) for all this stuff.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That episode is often considered the worst episode of RAW ever :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That episode is often considered the worst episode of RAW ever :lmao


You're kidding right? I loved it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thinking about starting a Starrcade review project since Im kind of on a sabbatical from 2001 reviews and Im taking the clashes slow and steady since I havent seen a lot of the starrcade shows I think I'll watch them, probably not in order though


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You're kidding right? I loved it.


I personally don't think that and Bulldog/Owen is probably my choice for GOAT RAW match, but that episode was really just a throwaway house show minus the main event. It only received a 1.9 rating and :vince3 was pissed off about how the episode went along with other executives. It actually became the catalyst for the switch to RAW is WAR. Also led to Vince Russo becoming the head of creative. Basically, this show was the straw that broke the camel's back that caused Vince to quit being lazy with how he filmed RAW and take a whole new direction.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You're kidding right? I loved it.



It's not the "worst Raw ever" or really even close to being the worst Raw ever. There have been several Raw's just this past year I'd say were definitely way worse. It is however one of if not THE lowest rated Raw's ever. Apparently, or so the story goes, the ratings for that Raw are what convinced Vince to turn the head writing role over to Russo and head in an edgier direction. But yea, nowhere near worst show and I have Owen/Davey as a top 3 match in Raw history, I love every single thing about it.

Just finished Punk/Joe II. I didn't bother writing my thoughts down as I was watching it, I'll have to post a proper review later. Suffice to say, it totally lived up to the hype and my own personal expectations. It was just such a smartly wrestled match. You really pick up on all the subtle bits of story telling when you watch the first and second matches in this series in order. In the first match Punk comes off as the underdog who has been game planning for the match of his life and has studied every one of Joes moves. Joe in the first match is the cocky champ, who appears not to have given this shrimp the respect he deserves heading in. The roles have changed by the time the second match rolls around. Joe is READY for Punk, and Punk is a tired and true vet at this point. Punk continues to try and keep a hold on Joe, just smothering him with headlocks in order to keep the angry Somoan from bashing his skull in with those wicked strikes. I really really loved all the bits of chain wrestling, they were all done with purpose and Punk really seemed like a coiled snake who was just looking for any opening in which to strike. They work some wicked spots outside of the ring, Ole Ole kicks, a suplex onto the concrete, and a big swing by Joe to Punk into the guardrail. The announcers say with about 15 minutes left "we are just gonna shut up now and go join the crowd, we want to be out there to witness this classic". So for the last segment all you hear is the sounds of the crowd and the brutal struggle both guys are going through to claim the biggest prize in the company. The finish sees both guys battling it out on the top rope, Punk is trying to get Joe with the Pepsi Plunge but this hostile islander is just not having it. They club and beat each other senseless vying for control, with Joe ultimately winning out and suplexing Punk off the top. Punk isn't done though, he staggers to his feet and AGAIN goes for the Plunge. Right when he's about to hook Joes arms, the announcer says "10 seconds remaining!", momentarily distracting Punk and allowing Joe to get control and hit him with ANOTHER big Super-Plex as the time expires.

What. A. Fucking. Match. These two blew me away, this was even better than the first bout and left zero doubt in my mind that Joe has met his match with the diminutive CM Punk. I see a lot of people gave this a perfect rating, and while I can totally see some justifying it, it doesn't QUITE get there for me. Still, what a wonderful way to spend 60 minutes.

Final Rating:
*****1/2*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Please make sure to watch Punk/Aries if you haven't already. Among the best farewell matches ever with the GOAT post-match promo from Punk.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well cable ratings don't mean shit to me and don't equal out to what you're actually seeing in the ring, so I liked it. I loved the fact that it felt like a house show because it gave the matches more time to develop and it came off better. No one in their right mind can say that a show with that main event plus two really interesting matches on paper like Bret Hart vs. Triple H & The Rock vs. Vader is "bad." If anything it was just the catalyst for a lot of good shit. 

Just got around to rewatching the two top matches from Extreme Rules. Sticking with **** 1/4 for Shield/Evolution because it's phenomenal in so many ways. The only flaw you could mention is how Batista & Reigns laid in the ring for 3 or 4 minutes while the brawl ensued in the crowd, but that's just being picky. Quite honestly just as good as the Wyatts match from Elimination Chamber. 

Settling on *** 3/4 for Bryan/Kane. Still an awesome brawl. My favorite moment has gotta be where Bryan is YESing his head off in the corner and Kane slowly sits up to hush the crowd, then Bryan runs right into a HELLACIOUS chokeslam. It just looks so real. Kane was dominant and the finish was creative. Some of the "problems" people seem to have with this match that I've read are ridiculous. It was an Extreme Rules match on a show entitled the same thing. You can't expect there to be much wrestling. They pulled out all the stops with great effort to make it memorable. For those of you that remember from the original airing, they edited out the guy who came into the picture late in the match with a fire extinguisher, so that's good. Another match that I'll gladly defend against naysayers.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Has opinion dropped that much on the first Shield vs Wyatt's match? :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I have it at **** 1/4 with the Evolution match as well. Always have. It's awesome stuff but people seem to really go crazy with it and I never felt the near 5* vibes some other folks have given it. I enjoyed their RAW match against Hell No & Kofi last year just as much to put it into perspective (back in the days when you used star ratings too). A rewatch will be in the works sometime though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was standing on my feet the moment the hype video began & didn't sit down until the filler that followed came on. Didn't want to be contained as my excitement was that much. My essence of loving profession wrestling was produced via that match. It's why I watch. Above and beyond w/all hype pulling through. Nothing is trumping that masterclass perfection in 2014 up to this point unless it is Tanahashi/Nakamura Invasion Attack or Naito/Ishii New Beginning.

Don't see what me using snowflakes has to do w/anything, but ok. Loved that Shield vs Hell No handicap match plenty too. But it's inferior in regards to this. And the Extreme Rules six man is one that sucks. Pecking order in tact. fuck yes @ calling it a handicap match, b/c that's what it was.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Please make sure to watch Punk/Aries if you haven't already. Among the best farewell matches ever with the GOAT post-match promo from Punk.


This is also great. I loved how it was somewhat divided until Aries did something (won't spoil it) to piss the crowd off and then he got an amount of heat I don't think I've seen before from doing one simple thing. EVERYBODY hated him.

I also watched Joe vs Punk II today. Going to watch #3 in a minute. Great match. I was too high from pain pills to really appreciate all the slow work though. Not so high now and going to enjoy #3 

Rabid_Wolverine, please watch Kobashi/Joe if you haven't already. No announcers for any of it. Best ROH match in history. I don't think I'm that bias either as DB is a legend to me in ROH. I love the Japanese commentary version of it to, "machine gun chops, machine gun chops, MACHINE GUN CHOPS IN NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!!"


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea it puzzles me too, hell shield/Wyatt I is ***** for me, haven't been that invested in a match in a long time. I've only seen it once but in that once it blows everything this year out. If the water, and I love that cesaro/zayn match. I've seen some put Bryan/hhh over it :banderas


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

As of now, Shield/Wyatts I and Cesaro/Zayn could be interchangeable as the definitive MOTY. Excellent stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Joe vs Kobashi isn't the best match in ROH from my standpoint, but the arguable point is def there. Amazing match; amazing atmosphere. Amazing everything.

Hope Cal doesn't show up to embarrass himself if he sees this.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

What's the best iyo?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm at the point to where I think I may settle on Danielson vs Morishima from Man Up. It's iconic. If not a Danielson classic, then one of the stellar brawls given by the company like ROH vs CZW from the 100th Show, Jacobs vs Whitmer FYF: Finale, or Generico/Steen vs Briscoes DBD V: Night Two.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

The gulf between Shield/Wyatts and Shield/Evolution is fucking masssssive, genuinely confuses me how anyone could have them equal. I guess if you were to force me to chuck the good old Ninjas at them Wyatts match is ****3/4 possibly ***** and Evolution is ***1/2

Best ROH match? For me personally it comes down to one of 5 choices, the ROH/CZW Cage of Death, The ROH/CZW 6 man tag from ROH's 100th show, Jimmy Jacobs/Austin Aries I quit, McGuiness and Bryan from the 6th Anniversary Show and Steenerico Vs The Briscoes in the Boston Street Fight. 

Joe/Kobashi is very, very good but its a **** sort of very, very good to me and not the near 5 that those 4 and a few others are.

EDIT: You know, on occasion I think me and Cody are the same person.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Did Joe vs Jay Briscoe steel cage make the matches of the 2000 list or come close? I should probably just go look now that I'm wanting to see which ROH matches made the cut. I should have done that list and ONLY focused on ROH matches... for fun. And Austin vs Angle SummerSlam '01, b/c that's a given.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Saw you say brawls and leave out the CoD match. No love for that, Hayley?

My list would probably garner some shit:
1. Joe vs Kobashi
2. Danielson vs KENTA - GBH V Night 2
3-10 could seriously change in order depending on what hour it is with me. There are so many great matches that fill those slots. Pretty sure 4 of them are Danielson/Nigel matches.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Do Fixer vs. Blood Generation get no love? I swear spot matches to this thread is what comedies are to the Oscars. :westbrook5


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Did Joe vs Jay Briscoe steel cage make the matches of the 2000 list or come close? I should probably just go look now that I'm wanting to see which ROH matches made the cut. I should have done that list and ONLY focused on ROH matches... for fun. And Austin vs Angle SummerSlam '01, b/c that's a given.


Also because otherwise a certain foul mouthed drunk Scot would hunt you down.

Jay/Joe got in at number 140 honey, mildly surprised it got that high actually, that list might be the most mind boggling thing I've been involved in since... well since the last list.


Edit: I like Do Fixer/Bloo Generation a hell of alot, blew my mind when 14 year old me first saw it but I've watched too much of the same style nowadays and whilst it is still very, very good its not as amazing to me as it once was.

Showing it to someone unused to that pace though is beautiful.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Have Shield/Wyatts from EC at ****3/4 myself with Shield vs Evo at ****1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> Saw you say brawls and leave out the CoD match. No love for that, Hayley?
> 
> My list would probably garner some shit:
> 1. Joe vs Kobashi
> ...


Plenty of love. Falls in line w/tons of other fabulous matches that I just didn't list to create a simple curve for the initial post. b/c ROH & amount of tremendous matches once upon a time, oh it's massive in my eyes. Will say I think the 100th Show brawl does have Cage of Death beat by a margin.



Craig said:


> Also because otherwise a certain foul mouthed drunk Scot would hunt you down.
> 
> Jay/Joe got in at number 140 honey, mildly surprised it got that high actually, that list might be the most mind boggling thing I've been involved in since... well since the last list.
> 
> ...


That cleaned up better than I was going to assume. Best part of the list was Austin vs Benoit being #1 w/o any of you guys even expecting it.

The Dragon Gate tag is one I haven't seen in even longer than the Punk vs Joe matches. I wonder if I'll even still like it. I probably will b/c as a showcase match it was _the_ tremendous (definitive) outing for that style in America. But I've gotten so used to the diluted Dragon Gate work by this point that I dunno if the match would have the same "pop". Best thing going for me right now is that it has been YEARS, so the majority will be fresh. Never forget that finish. Dragon Kid, damn.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> Have Shield/Wyatts from EC at ****3/4 myself with Shield vs Evo at ****1/4


Same, with the former edging out Zayn/Cesaro for MotY so far.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

After my MILLIONTH rewatch, I finally gave Shield/Wyatts I a well deserved ****3/4. Pretty much everything done there was perfect. Still, I have Cesaro/Zayn over it by the smallest margin.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching the second ever Nitro, and Bischoff is already giving away results and running WWF down. :lol

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Yeah Shield/Wyatts at EC is tied with Naito vs Ishii from New Beginning as my MOTY so far. Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival is just behind those two and I wasn't a big fan of Tanahashi vs Nakamura from Invasion Attack due to Shinsuke's selling. Preferred their match at New Beginning tbh.

Currently it'd go

1. Shield vs Wyatts at EC and Naito vs Ishii at New Beginning
2. Cesaro vs Zayn from Arrival
3. Tanahashi vs Nakamura and Okada vs Goto from New Beginning.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nakamura actually sold his knee during 100% of that match b/c the vast majority of the match was Tanahashi destroying it


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Started Fall Brawl 1995. Johnny B.Badd/Pillman is such an excellent opener, given plenty of time too.

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----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> Have Shield/Wyatts from EC at ****3/4 myself with Shield vs Evo at ****1/4


Same for Shield/Wyatts but **** for Shield/Evolution. Shield/Wyatts is my MOTY thus far.

Maybe wrong place to ask but anyone know where I can watch that ROH vs. NJPW show from last night?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Is not uploaded yet to the usual torrent site. It also shows up in the multimedia section here. Should be around tomorrow afternoon.

1997 Souled Out

Chris Jericho vs. Masahiro Chono - Masahiro Chono is a member of the NWO. USA chants, naturally. **

Big Bubba vs. Hugh Morris - Is this match really on ppv? *1/2

Jeff Jarrett vs. Mr. Wallstreet - *

Scotty Riggs vs. Buff Bagwell - **. This match got 15 minutes, it felt like 25. It should have been ten minutes, tops.

Scott Norton vs. DDP - *.

Steiners vs. Outsiders - **1/2

Syxx vs. Eddie Guerrero - Ladder match - ***1/2

The Giant vs. Hulk Hogan (c) - *3/4

Thoughts: Never watch this. It had almost no redeemable qualities. I understand that it was a gimmick ppv but even so this was not entertaining, it was trash. Apparently this was also the third ppv that Giant/Hogan headlined in eleven months. Please stop this.

2/10.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Nakamura actually sold his knee during 100% of that match b/c the vast majority of the match was Tanahashi destroying it



I'll have to rewatch it and check again I suppose but found it very intermittent. When Tanahashi attacks the knee, it was fine, but when Nakamura mounts his short bursts of offense, it's like he forgot about his injury. I'll watch it once again and see.

Did like the finish with him having to use his right knee though.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> I'll have to rewatch it and check again I suppose but found it very intermittent. When Tanahashi attacks the knee, it was fine, but when Nakamura mounts his short bursts of offense, it's like he forgot about his injury.


That's Shinskay for ya. I obviously love the guy but man, he needs to learn how to adapt.


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I'm at the point to where I think I may settle on Danielson vs Morishima from Man Up. It's iconic. If not a Danielson classic, then one of the stellar brawls given by the company like ROH vs CZW from the 100th Show, Jacobs vs Whitmer FYF: Finale, or Generico/Steen vs Briscoes DBD V: Night Two.


Joe/Kobashi is my favorie match. EVER. So that's a lock for the #1 spot but the rest of my list would probably look like that.




Choke2Death said:


> Speaking of HEADLOCK matches
> [...]
> my top 100 Orton matches list


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

He sold it when it mattered the most. His lack of selling (and Tanahashi throwing kitchen sink on him because of it) was basically the story of the match and what made it so goddamn awesome. Complaining about Shinsuke's "lack of selling" is beating a dead horse at this point, just accept the dude having cyborg legs is his character trait and you'll be fine.

For me, nothing's gonna top that match from No. 1 this year. In fact, it's the best match in the world since the KOP '12 main event. It reminded me of the 80s with Choshu, Fujinami and Inoki.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There wasn't even the point to dub it as "lack of selling". He only had about what, two short bursts of offense until the finish? Every time Nakamura attempted to fight back through the pain, Tana proceeded to come back more vicious to the knee and make sure it would be sold. Like it was just said, that's the narrative of the match. I watched the match w/a fixation on Nakamura's attempts to sell & he came through w/this match. Only time I've really had an issue w/his work was the VERY blatant no sell vs Suzuki last year where it would have been a great match after all that dominate work. Only then Nak was actually dancing towards the end of the match before he finished MiSu off w/his bum knee. D'oh.

In a similiar tangent, I want to rewatch the New Beginning match between Nakamura & Tanahashi b/c I wasn't on the side of thinking it was great. Really good, but lacking that edge that is always common w/their matches. Wrestle Kingdom held up. Strong, strong match. Loved the playing off of each other via their extensive history in that one.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Their TNB match had that botch which elevated the match tremendously.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

For me the botched was handled well and didn't have any poor effect for me. There was just something lacking at being "great" for me in the bulk. Consider it the ground work not being as convincing as it was come Invasion Attack. Also need to give Naito vs Ishii Invasion Attack one more viewing too. I know part of me wasn't 100% coherent when I had that on and I shouldn't do a chemistry like that a disservice.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Well I haven't watched much NJPW before Okada's rise to the top so that may have affected my opinion of the Invasion Attack match 

Like Chismo said I'll just take it as a character trait and rewatch. Tanahashi was absolute GOLD in that match though, his work on the knee and his dickishness was amazing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You've seen Tanahashi vs MiSu from King of Pro Wrestling 2012, right? Tanahashi's dissection in that is off the charts. Best part is, MiSu does the exact same thing to Tana. Modern classic.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm apparently the odd man out of all this because Shield/Wyatts is in fact NOT my MOTY right now and neither is Cesaro/Zayn. They're both slotted behind HHH vs. Daniel Bryan. Triple H's entrance alone probably envoked a bigger reaction out of me than the whole spectacle of Shield/Wyatts. Maybe it's because I wasn't following the product at the time. Idk. They've done a few rematches now so I guess going back and watching the original doesn't seem as special? Both great matches but nowhere fucking close to **** 3/4 and 5* for either one. It's very odd because those are two matches that are universally liked but actually rated HIGHER in here than the outside world. Normally it's the other way around. I can never peg anyone in this place man...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Same thing applies for ADR/Ziggler Payback. Every outsider (except for Jimmy Redman - that guy is a pretty good reviewer himself imo, you could check his stuff out, like his Top 100 matches of 2013 list) prefers Punk/Jericho vastly and I see for it mostly ****1/2 ratings, ADR/Ziggler usually gets ***1/2-**** ratings only. Pretty contrasting, huh?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Same thing applies for ADR/Ziggler Payback. Every outsider (except for Jimmy Redman - that guy is a pretty good reviewer himself imo, you could check his stuff out, like his Top 100 matches of 2013 list) prefers Punk/Jericho vastly and I see for it mostly ****1/2 ratings, ADR/Ziggler usually gets ***1/2-**** ratings only. Pretty contrasting, huh?


I thought the general consensus was ADR/Ziggler was the superior match tbh. I didn't think much to Punk/Jericho (certainly nothing compared to their WM/ER matches).

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----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

In this forum, yes. And no blaming for that - one of the most incredibly executed matches of last year period.

However, outside of here, Punk/Jericho has a far better rep. What I hear is that "it had great wrestling" and stuff like that. I hear Ziggler/ADR has a rep of "being just a squash helped by Dolph's great selling". Some people I've seen don't even justify why do they think they're great matches, they just say they are and call you a hater if you disagree (like that WeAreProWrestling guy - that guy likes ALMOST EVERYTHING).

*DOUBLE POST:
*
For your interest, here's the WeAreProWrestling guy's current Top 20 WWE matches of the year:



> 1. Triple H vs Daniel Bryan, WM 30, ****1/2
> 2. Cesaro vs Sami Zayn, Arrival, ****1/2
> 3. Shield vs Wyatts, Chamber, ****1/2
> 4. Shield vs Evolution, Extreme Rules, ****1/2
> ...


Oh yeah. He has AJ/NATALYA at ****. Can't get his standards. He also has like 30+ ***** matches, some of which are ridiculous.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

My MotY:

1a. Cesaro vs Zayn ArRival ****3/4
1b. Shield vs Wyatt's EC ****3/4
2. Shield vs Evolution ER ****1/4
3. Cesaro vs Cena Raw ****1/4
4. Danielson vs Triple H WM ****1/4
5. Danielson vs Bray Wyatt RR ****1/4

So yea, Danielson, Cesaro, Shield, and Wyatt's are owning the world so far this year, a surprise to absolutely NO ONE with any sense.

I haven't seen any Puro so I can only comment on WWE for this year.

It's time to watch Punk/Joe III. Really truly excited for this match, I'm curious to see how they are gonna top II. 

Also- Hayley was absolutely, unequivocally right about $20 not being bad for the set I got. Not only do you get the 3 classics at a total running time of 150 minutes, you get another good 15 minute match, you get an hour shoot interview of Punk and Joe sitting together discussing the matches, AND, the best part: Punk and Joe spend ANOTHER hour at the end of their shoot about the matches telling stories of drunken escapades and pranks with their wrestling brethren. I seriously have not laughed so hard in a long time. Punk is just a world class story teller, he does everyone's voices and acts out these totally ridiculous scenes that took place in bars. There's a story of him getting into a fight with an 8 foot transvestite in England who grabbed his dick, there's a hilarious story of him crank calling Gabe doing a perfect Homicide impression and threatening to no show this big event they had coming up, there's one of him waking up to Homicide trying to piss on him, there's one of him and Homicide brawling through a strip club at a show and Punk stopping mid match to yell "YOURE A WHORE!" Right into the face of one of the strippers....I mean it's just fantastic stuff. You all seriously need to find this interview you won't be sorry,


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching the 10/16/1995 edition of Nitro, had an excellent Benoit/Guerrero match, think it was Benoit's Nitro debut. Also gotta lol at them promoting the hotline with internal WWF news, such as the news a prominent official was leaving (whoever that was).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Love the lists man, but I just don't see how that Summerslam 2004 match is his second best. Obviously I think it's great, and it's probably one of the 3-4 most important matches in Randy's career, but there are just quite a few matches I think he's had that are better. My top Orton matches would be:
> 
> That's not including tags and chamber matches, of course. Just his best straight up singles. Words can't describe how much I adore that 1/13/06 SD match he had with Benoit. I think that match is his single best showcase for just how talented he is as a performer. The Mick match is overall better, but I think Ortons best performance ever in a singles match was against Benoit that night.


I was thinking of taking down SS 04 some spots but decided against it because not only do I adore that match but coupling that with its significance in Randy's career, that puts it over even though objectively, he's had better matches, specially against Benoit.

The biggest "improvement" in my redone list is that 13/1/06 match. Put it at #13 first time but a couple more rewatches in the past few months and I've really warmed up to it and love it as much as most others here do. Just enough to get it in the top 5, above the awesome Mysterio match too. Christian match from OTL is still excellent but a couple more rewatches has caused it to go down a bit.



TheChoppingMachine said:


>


:lol


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

reached King of the Ring 2002, Jericho vs RVD now

sounds good on paper


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It is very good, but goes about 5 minutes too long and is a little bit MOVESY in thought.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I agree it could have ended earlier (probably after Jericho hitting the Lionsault). Loved the match, fast-paced all the time, and that was probably their best match together so far. Crowd was really into it as well. I feel like quite a few were behind Jericho.

Great stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I really liked Jericho/RVD from KOTR 02. ***3/4 from me. Was surprised I liked it as much as I did. I was expecting some giant moves-y nonsense but it was better than just the standard shit from RVD and even Jericho from time to time.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ziggler/ADR would have been my MOTY that year if it wasnt for Punk/Lesnar

Zep any chance you can upload to your channel Joe/Punk I ? I know this site has a funky rule againist no ROH uploads on here, but Platt and co cant control your DM account


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

NAITCH said:


> Zep any chance you can upload to your channel Joe/Punk I ? I know this site has a funky rule againist no ROH uploads on here, but Platt and co cant control your DM account


Sure, ill upload it this week and send you a link via Rep. 

This WCW Dungeon Of Doom stuff. Jeez.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

They also cannot control file-hosting sites. Publically requesting it, and it subsequently being answered, via this site is one I doubt RoH would take kindly to and isn't much different to what they threatened action against, already.


From a promotion that isn't so far up its own arse:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

As far as MOTY 2014 so far, Wyatts/Shield EC is far above Shield/Evo and Bryan/HHH. Like, in a totally different league. And I think Bryan/ HHH is my number 3 MOTY so far, but Wyatts/Shield is just something else. Really felt like a special once in a lifetime match... until they did it again... and again... and again.  Still the original holds up as the best and it being the first encounter, it stills has that epic felling when rewatching it. I really can't consider anything else a MOTYC due to how much higher I see Wyatts/Shield over anything else.

Ziggler/ADR > Punk/ Jericho from Payback, but both matches are great. I think Ziggler/ADR maybe cracks my top 5 of the year, although I know Id definitely put Punk/Lesnar and Taker/ Punk far above it, and Shield vs Hell No and Kofi is also definitely above it. Also Bryan/Cena is above it I'm pretty sure. Outside of that, I'd need to see my list to know for sure.

Edit: actually, that confirms it doesn't make my top 5.  Top 10 definitely though. 2013 was a pretty stacked year. A lot of awesome matches don't make my top 10, and a lot of great ones don't make top 20.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Orton/Benoit (Summerslam 2004) - ****1/4
Austin/Angle (Summerslam 2001) - ****1/4
Rock/Brock (Summerslam 2002) - ****1/2*

Randomly decided to watch those during study breaks this week. Good stuff.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The crazy part is that you have the Eddie/Rey ladder match over all three of those great Summerslam matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> *Orton/Benoit (Summerslam 2004) - ****1/4
> Austin/Angle (Summerslam 2001) - ****1/4
> Rock/Brock (Summerslam 2002) - ****1/2*
> 
> Randomly decided to watch those during study breaks this week. Good stuff.



You're the first I've seen in a while rate that SS 2002 main event ahead of the SS 2001 one. What did you like about Brock/Rock more than Austin/Angle?


Since you all were discussing it early, my favorite match is ROH is Danielson/McGuinness from the 2008 Anniversary Show. Granted I haven't seen NEARLY the amount of stuff you guys have, probably about 20-30 matches total, but still. That Danielson match with the Mcguinnes heel turn is absolute art. It really doesn't get to much better than that. After that I'd probably have a Shima/Danielson match (either Man Up or Manhatten Mayhem) or the Cage of Death match from the ROH/CZW feud.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The crazy part is that you have the Eddie/Rey ladder match over all three of those great Summerslam matches.


I know. I watched it twice back to back when I gave it that huge rating because I absolutely loved it. It could change when I get around to watching all the Summerslam stuff back heading into this years show. It was my favourite match out of all the SS stuff I watched for that little binge though. 

:draper2



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You're the first I've seen in a while rate that SS 2002 main event ahead of the SS 2001 one. What did you like about Brock/Rock more than Austin/Angle?


I just prefer the pace of Rock/Brock mixed with the athletic style match they worked. I loved watching Rocky slowly acknowledge the reaction to him during the match. By the end of it Brock is the good guy and it's just awesome. I also really like Austin/Angle but I prefer the former.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The crazy part is that you have the Eddie/Rey ladder match over all three of those great Summerslam matches.



The Eddie/Rey Ladder match is great, and would be even greater if not for the botches. I gave it **** on last watch and I'm sticking with it. I don't understand why that match gets shit on, Eddies character is just off the charts great (which was the norm for him) and they took an absolutely ridiculous gimmick and made it work. On the Network they have a Countdown for 10 best Ladder Matches and it was ranked 8th. That means absolutely nothing hahaha, but still, I guess it shows others like it even more than I do.




Starbuck said:


> I know. I watched it twice back to back when I gave it that huge rating because I absolutely loved it. It could change when I get around to watching all the Summerslam stuff back heading into this years show. It was my favourite match out of all the SS stuff I watched for that little binge though.
> 
> :draper2
> 
> ...



Yea I can understand that. That Brock/Rock match is cool because you literally witness the fans slowly realize about halfway through "shit, this Brock guy is great, I've never seen anything like him before......he's my new guy". I just prefer the wildness and crazyness of that SS 2001 match. Angle has never been a better baby face than he was in that match, JR and Heyman were WONDERFUL on commentary, and Austin continued his amazing heel run (from a ring and character standpoint) of being just a complete and utter psychopath. That SS 2001 match is #3 for me for best match in company history, behind only the two GOAT matches that took place in 1997.


Alright so I just finished Punk/Joe III. As with the second match, I didn't write my thoughts down while watching, I just wanted to sit there and focus on the match. And boy am I glad I did. What a match. What a story. What a series. From the bell onward, it was clear that this match was NOT gonna be another time limit draw. Punk is just going ALL OUT to try and topple the mammoth Somoa Joe. Joe doesn't get much offense in to start, as Punk is just relentless in countering him and grabbing him for quick holds. Joe finally gets fed up and just starts slapping the taste out of Punks mouth and kicking him to death. Eventually this leads to him kicking Punk square in the noggin, busting Punk open. From there the match gets ever more frantic, with Punk pulling out some desperation moves outside the ring to try and keep Joe at bay, including a drop kick off the apron to the floor that just HAD to hurt like a motherfucker. The selling by Punk is fantastic, he never does anything without looking like he's in agony. Finally Joe locks Punk in a sleeper and it looks like it'll be the end....but on the drop of his hand the third time, Punk BARELY keeps his hand from falling, allowing the match to continue. From there Punk works a series of near falls, just trying to do ANYTHING to steal the title. Joe, getting more and more desperate, actually rolls Punk up and puts his feet in the ropes to try and steal it, causing OUTRAGE amongst the fans and a resounding "FUCK YOU JOE, FUCK YOU JOE!" Chant echos in the arena. It looks like Punk is about to hit the Pepsi plunge but Joe bashes him off the ropes, and locks in the choke. Finally, Punk is rendered unconscious and the match ends.

This is my favorite bout of the series. While the second might be SLIGHTLY better from a pure wrestling standpoint, I think this one had better intensity, better story, and a better climax. The last 5 or so minutes of this match had EVERYONE in doubt as to who would actually win. I don't think it's heresy to say that Punk/Joe is the Flair/Steamboat of the 21st century, the matches were just that good.

Final ratings for the series:

Punk/Joe I: *****1/4*
Punk/Joe II: *****1/2*
Punk/Joe III: *****1/2*


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Angle/Austin is nowhere near a top 3/5/10 match in company history for me but I've seen a few others in here beyond yourself call it that. Different strokes. Austin's character work is :mark: and Angle's face work is :mark: but the ending is a POS if I ever saw one. Not that it ruins it for me or anything, I can live with it, I just think there are much better matches that I'd comfortably put above this one.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Best thing about the Rey/Eddie ladder match (for me, of course) is Eddie's tantrum when Vickie misses her cue to come out. :lmao


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> You've seen Tanahashi vs MiSu from King of Pro Wrestling 2012, right? Tanahashi's dissection in that is off the charts. Best part is, MiSu does the exact same thing to Tana. Modern classic.


Yeah I went and watched it on YouTube. Came across it when I was reading Tanahashi's wiki page and saw it was rated 5 stars by Meltzer. Loved that match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Eddie is just :banderas throughout the whole thing really.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

GOAT is tweeting again! Must mean he's back unk

I should really rewatch Brock/HHH some time. The chance that Brock would have four classics in four tries on a PPV. Oh man!


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> As far as MOTY 2014 so far, Wyatts/Shield EC is far above Shield/Evo and Bryan/HHH. Like, in a totally different league. And I think Bryan/ HHH is my number 3 MOTY so far, but Wyatts/Shield is just something else. Really felt like a special once in a lifetime match... until they did it again... and again... and again.  Still the original holds up as the best and it being the first encounter, it stills has that epic felling when rewatching it. I really can't consider anything else a MOTYC due to how much higher I see Wyatts/Shield over anything else.
> 
> Ziggler/ADR > Punk/ Jericho from Payback, but both matches are great. I think Ziggler/ADR maybe cracks my top 5 of the year, although I know Id definitely put Punk/Lesnar and Taker/ Punk far above it, and Shield vs Hell No and Kofi is also definitely above it. Also Bryan/Cena is above it I'm pretty sure. Outside of that, I'd need to see my list to know for sure.
> 
> Edit: actually, that confirms it doesn't make my top 5.  Top 10 definitely though. 2013 was a pretty stacked year. A lot of awesome matches don't make my top 10, and a lot of great ones don't make top 20.


I agree with Wyatts/Shield being something special. The gang warfare mentality and the fact that there was no lengths in which the teams wouldn't go to win is something that is lost in most WWE matches nowadays. I have this theory (more of a hypothesis honestly) that most amazing matches (****3/4-*****) have a moment when it dons on you that what you're watching is special. Whether it's Taker's face after Shawn kicks out at WM25 or Lesnar busting open Cena in the first few moments.

For me it's Bray's face after they put Rollins through the table. The dead and godless look in his eyes shows hatred, frustration, insanity, and of course, manipulation as he watches his family just destroy another man.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> My MotY:
> 
> 1a. Cesaro vs Zayn ArRival ****3/4
> 1b. Shield vs Wyatt's EC ****3/4


Cheater  

Finishing up by EC rankings that I started a LONG time ago and never went past 2010. Watched the 2011 ones last night and now I'm on 2012


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Coolquip said:


> I agree with Wyatts/Shield being something special. The gang warfare mentality and the fact that there was no lengths in which the teams wouldn't go to win is something that is lost in most WWE matches nowadays. I have this theory (more of a hypothesis honestly) that most amazing matches (****3/4-*****) have a moment when it dons on you that what you're watching is special. Whether it's Taker's face after Shawn kicks out at WM25 or Lesnar busting open Cena in the first few moments.
> 
> For me it's Bray's face after they put Rollins through the table. The dead and godless look in his eyes shows hatred, frustration, insanity, and of course, manipulation as he watches his family just destroy another man.



That's exactly what I use to judge the difference between a ****1/2 match and a ****3/4-***** match. If there is one of those moments that just give you the chills and your skin gets all prickly and a smile just creeps across your face. For Shield/Wyatt's that moment was when Ambrose, who had been dying to get at Bray all night, finally said "fuck this" and just dove at Bray while they were outside the ring and started throwing those wild punches and the brawl spilled over the guardrail and into the crowd. For Cesaro/Zayn ArRival it was when Cesaro hits that RIDICULOUS uppercut on Zayn but Sami pops up after a 1 count with this look on his face like "fuck you, is that all you got?!". So yea, I totally get what you mean by saying that. That's actually why I didn't give any of the Punk/Joe matches above ****1/2, because as great as they are, I just never had one of those moments in any of them when I got goosebumps.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Jericho vs. Cena @ Vengeance 2002 wasn't as horrible as I thought it'd be, but it was still pretty average. The Steel Cage match against Edge the SD after was awesome, though.

Let's see what his move to RAW will bring. He's feuding Flair next, I think.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Coolquip said:


> I have this theory (more of a hypothesis honestly) that most amazing matches (****3/4-*****) have a moment when it dons on you that what you're watching is special. Whether it's Taker's face after Shawn kicks out at WM25 or Lesnar busting open Cena in the first few moments.


I really like this. I too feel exactly the same way. There's just something special; a moment, a running thread throughout the match, a look or just everything coming together, just _something _that propels a ****1/2 match into rarefied air and sets it apart from all the others. For me personally ****1/2 is as high as I'm willing to go for the majority of matches. That will be my ceiling. Only if a match has that special something about it will I move it beyond that point and debate whether it gets the full 5 or just under. I also don't bother to rate anything I deem under *** because I don't see the point tbh. I guess I work on a scale of *** to ****1/2 with anything above or below either being unremarkable or truly extraordinary.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> Yeah I went and watched it on YouTube. Came across it when I was reading Tanahashi's wiki page and saw it was rated 5 stars by Meltzer. Loved that match.


(Y)


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Complete Ratings and rankings of all EC matches* 

1: NYR 2005(****3/4) 
2: EC 2011 SD(****1/2)
3: Survivor Series 2002(****1/2)
4: No way out 2008 RAW(****1/4)
5: No way out 2008 SD(****) 
6: EC 2014(****) 
7: EC 2011 RAW(****) 
8: EC 2010 SD(****) 
9: EC 2013(***3/4) 
10: Summerslam 2003(***1/2) 
11: EC 2012 SD(***1/2) 
12: NWO 2009 RAW(***1/4) 
13: EC 2012 RAW(***) 
14: NWO 2009 RAW(**3/4) 
15: EC 2010 RAW(**1/4) 
16: NYR 2006(1/2*)​


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Welp. Disappointed by Jericho vs Flair @Summerslam 2002. Their feud continues, so hopefully the next one will be better. I must say the brand split made things much easier.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I deem any match ****1/2 and higher a classic. I've become very selective in what I put at that or higher recently. I'm also pretty selective at what I put ****1/4 as well. Generally, **** is the highest Ill go unless not only is it awesome, but there's something special about it.

I only keep a list of my ***1/2+ matches, and ones that get rated at *** or below I don't remember unless it was a big match.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> *Complete Ratings and rankings of all EC matches*
> 
> 1: NYR 2005(****3/4)
> 2: EC 2011 SD(****1/2)
> ...


I havent watched the ones after 2010 or so, but the 2005 EC match is my favourite, as well. Aren't you missing the ECW one, though?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

DoubtGin said:


> I havent watched the ones after 2010 or so, but the 2005 EC match is my favourite, as well. Aren't you missing the ECW one, though?


LOL I am, I rated it to but forgot to add it, that would go LAST at 1/2*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Flair/Jerchio ss 02 pretty good

- both 2009 chambers are very good, the 2002 one is overrated and kinda bleh even though the winner is GAWD. The raw 2008 is good but remember it being that good


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Is the 2011 SD Chamber the one where Drew goes nuts because if so, :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It is. Drew McIntyre single handledly makes a gimmick match stand out. Lots of Chamber matches are pish.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Flair/Jericho Summerslam '02 is damn good match. ***1/2

And I'm always stuck between EC '05 and SD 2011 as to which is my favourite. I think I'll give the edge to the 2011 one just for McIntyre going completely HAM and Edge/Mysterio interaction.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Gave the Flair/Jericho match **3/4. Didn't click with me at all.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Finally watched WrestleMania XXX on Blu-ray, loved it as much as I did the first time. My thoughts:

The opening segment immediately let me know that this was going to be one of the best WMs ever. In the end, I was right. Austin interrupting Hogan would have been classic enough, but The Rock coming out just made this so special. Rocky joking about the SUPERdome on Hogan, putting over Austin, Hogan, Cena, and Bryan was very giving. Austin showing respect to Hogan was nice, too. This was clean, simple, memorable, and an awesome way to start the show. But it gets better...

After that, we get what is, in my opinion, the best WM opener ever in

*Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H*
Triple H's shoulder work was so vicious, you really see why he's called a ring general. Bryan is such a great underdog, and starting the show off with a huge match 8 months in the making just continued everything perfectly. The match felt like a main event, the exchanges were beautiful, and I love the finish.

****1/4

*Kane & The New Age Outlaws vs. The Shield*
Not the ideal match for The Shield, but a good cooldown for the show. Shield looked great here, everyone got in some hits, and this 3 minutes of pure excitement. Enjoyable for the time that it got.

**

*Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal*
So much better than I would have imagined. Battle Royals usually suck, but once the ring started to clear, the match was so much fun. Sheamus, Del Rio, Cesaro, Mysterio, Big Show, Ziggler, etc. looked awesome. The finish was somewhat unpredictable, and Cesaro slamming Show was quite a sight.

***1/2

*John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt*
What I loved about this match was how Wyatt essentially represented the fans wanting Cena to turn heel. The teases were great, and everyone can clearly see that Cena still knows how to work as a heel. I loved how Wyatt was trying to mess with him, and then would take advantage. The random spider stance freaking Cena out was great. The interference was infrequent but appropriate. Wyatt is a damn good wrestler, and I loved the counter at the end into the AA.

***3/4

*The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar*
Let me just say this: the buildup to this match was terrible. Lesnar looking like a punk, the story, everything. It was just weak. The match is weak, too. However, I resigned myself to actually enjoying it for a few reasons:

-The match itself makes perfect sense. Considering Brock Lesnar as a character, I look at this match for what it is: Lesnar mercilessly pummeling Undertaker, with UT occasionally catching up to get a few moves in. In a way, this kind of reminds of me of UT/Kane from Night of Champions 2010. Lesnar is a special athlete, for his strength and speed, and the beatdown makes sense. And if anyone could do it, it would be him, especially since UT has now officially never beaten him. Was it entertaining and exciting? Nope. But it still worked for me.

-There were some good exchanges at the end, notably UT getting the kimura on Brock. That was fun.

-However bad the buildup was, however weak you think the match is, the bottom line is that the end is officially historic. The silence during the pin, the pure shocked reaction, everything. However the streak ended, it was going to be memorable, so the fact that it simply happened is important enough. For these reasons I give the match

**3/4

*Vickie Guerrero Divas Invitational*
For the time they had, this match was kind of fun. And I got to give it to the divas and New Orlans for getting and giving a reaction after The Undertaker LOST AT WRESTLEMANIA.

**

*Triple-Threat Match for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship*: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Batista
This is easily the best WM main event since XXIV, and possibly XX. This had everything: the RR winner, the underdog, the afterthought champion trying to prove himself. In many ways, this reminded me of the ME to WM XX: former tag partners in a popular stable, now essentially heels, with one as champion, and a little guy underdog desperately fighting for the title. Even down to them teaming up on him for the table spot. Sound familiar?

This match is so much fun. There were some great nearfalls, the interference from HHH halfway through was perfectly timed. It allowed the match to stand on its own and end clean, but still gave everyone what they knew would happen. This is definitely a sprint, not a GREAT match, but a very good one that you can watch over and over again.

****

All in all, this was a great WM, the best since XXIV, and a wonderful show. There wasn't one bad match, one bad segment, one waste of time. The opening segment, Hogan backstage, the awesome live performances for Wyatt and Orton, HHH's entrance (looking like Skeletor at the end the Masters of the Universe movie), were all awesome. Highly recommended.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Guess I need to see this 2011 SD Chamber match.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Watched some matches over the last couple days and here's the results:

Undertaker vs Trips WM17 (***3/4)
Vince vs HBK WM22 (***3/4)
Cena vs Triple H RAW 2009 (***1/4)
Show vs Lesnar STRETCHER (****1/4)

EDIT: Meanwhile in the dark side of the forum, Austin/Trips/Mankind is a better match than Punk/Lesnar. :lol


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thank god someone else has Brock/Show JD at ****1/4 too, match is the GOAT Big Show match and def a top 10 Brock match imo.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I really need to get on that stretcher match. It's like how SD EC 2011 is to TLK for me. It's a match everyone keeps talking about yet, for some reason, I've never seen it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Watched some matches over the last couple days and here's the results:
> 
> Undertaker vs Trips WM17 (***3/4)
> Vince vs HBK WM22 (***3/4)
> ...


What kind of twisted soul would think THAT?

EDIT: Nevermind, I already know. But do you HONESTLY trust the word of "cool" guys who 
a) still think they should live in the AE and that will take anything 1999 over today regardless of how good today is;
b) are just Bryan marks who hate Punk?

Yes, Punk's marks are awful, but Bryan's are just as bad if not worse. And AJ's beat them both.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Anyone else think Cena vs Big Show from WM20 was good? I really liked The Giant's control segment, it had diversity and didn't just consist of punches and snarky facials but rather power moves, punches, kicks and snarky facials. It really felt like Cena was fighting from underneath and finish is great, suitable too as Cena was still a heel at the time. Fun opener- ***1/4.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I remember liking it but no rating or anything. Was fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, it's fun. 

Cena wasn't a heel at that time though.. He turned face before 2004 began.



The Lady Killer said:


> Guess I need to see this 2011 SD Chamber match.


One of these days; cram session. You need it. 8*D


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Finally took the time to use the Network quite a bit to watch some matches/shows I've been thinking about watching lately.

I watched the Elimination Chamber match from this year, some of RAW after WrestleMania last year, A majority of WrestleMania 30 (I didn't watch Taker/Lesnar or the opening segment), and some others. Oh, and Shield/Wyatts from EC 2014. & I watched that Fatal Four Way #1 Contenders match for the IC title on RAW, but since that RAW isn't on the Network yet, I watched it on a bootleg.

I still love the Chamber match, despite the shitty finish. I understand why they did that finish, but still. The Cesaro/Sheamus bits were just :banderas. I also loved their match on Main Event last week.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena/Show WM20 is average at best, like all of their matches with the exception of one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Seems like 3 - 1 trumps you here. 8*D

and the rest of their series; I'm an advocate. Two great ones in 2009.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

***3/4 for Show/Cena WM 20, love the match so much and the crowd is :mark: in it too.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Second Jericho vs Flair match (Unforgiven 2002) was worse than the first one, :lmao at Jericho, though.

He should team up with Christian soon enough :mark:


----------



## Leonardo Spanky (May 1, 2014)

I just re-watched the Chris Benoit vs. Triple H vs. HBK duology back to back.

Wrestlemania 20 ****3/4
A classic and how triple threats should be done. HBK bleed like crazy here. The table spot was so well done and felt like Benoit could really lose after that, which added so much to the drama of the closing moments. Then there's the ending celebration with Eddie and I cried re-watching it for the first time in years. 

Backlash 2004 **** - ****1/4
Not as tight as the Mania match. The spot with the crowd getting into HBK's head was cool. The table spot wasn't as good in this one. There were a lot of shenanigans in the crowd that distracted me a bit on this rewatch, in particular the ass clown who wouldn't quit with the "I forgive you Shawn" sign.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cena/Show is a really fun opener. *** for me.

4-1


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Also *** for Cena/Show WM XX.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea fan of the Cena/Show wm 20 match as well as a few from 2009

---

H told me Ziggler and Cesaro got 20 mins on this tour, asking the guy in here who love spoiler to w/o spoiling the results or show tell me if it takes place on Raw tonight or it was just a house show ?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

NAITCH said:


> Yea fan of the Cena/Show wm 20 match as well as a few from 2009
> 
> ---
> 
> H told me Ziggler and Cesaro got 20 mins on this tour, asking the guy in here who love spoiler to w/o spoiling the results or show tell me if it takes place on Raw tonight or it was just a house show ?


Impossible to know if it's on Raw tonight. Show hasn't happened yet.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Anyways, Rumble 2006 as a whole event is kinda awful. 

Six Way Crusierweight (*3/4)
Micky/Ashley (*1/4)
Boogeyman/JBL (*) 
Rumble (***)
Cena/Edge (**) 
Henry/Angle (*) (Unfortunate too considering how decent their JD match was)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Impossible to know if it's on Raw tonight. Show hasn't happened yet.


I think its a taped episode, they are overseas and their is a raw spoilers thread already


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Show won't start until about 7pm which is 2 hours away still. So yeah, still no way to know what's on Raw tonight yet .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If rumors are right, Vince McMahon is very high on the Usos. Ha. Suck on that, haters of STRAIGHT UP FUN STUFF. INSERTUSOSMILEY


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cesaro vs. Ziggler has been happening on house shows. Actually the house show cards have been looking pretty fucking great recently. Shit I wouldn't mind seeing at all. Cena & The Shield vs. Del Rio & The Wyatt Family, Big Show vs. Kane Street Fight, Barrett defending the IC Title in 4-ways against Cesaro/RVD/Big E, Usos vs. Rhodes Bros vs. Rowan & Harper, Sheamus vs. Del Rio, plus Sami Zayn has been on the cards!


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

That IC title 4 way sounds horrendous :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

No it doesn't. It has BARRETT VS. CESARO in it for Christ sakes. I don't give a crap about the other two, it's all about Cesarrett and those two make anything gold.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Big E sucks, Barrett isn't good, RVD hasn't had a great match in almost a year (last one was that Raw match with Jericho). Cesaro needs more than THAT to pull off a great match. I'd rather just watch Cesaro vs RVD than have those two other imbeciles in their fucking shit up.

If Cesaro has a match with Ziggler tonight and they get 15 minutes......I think I might ACTUALLY tear up a bit. Outside of Bryan, Dolph is the guy I feel the most horrible for on the current roster.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

BARRETT *IS* FUCKING GOOD. NOT EVEN A QUESTION OF OPINION. PERIOD. :barrett

Now, anyways, little game: what is your Top 5 favorites out of the list of World Heavyweight Champions (not your Top 5 champions, your Top 5 overall that were champions)?

Triple H
Shawn Michaels
Goldberg
Chris Benoit
Randy Orton
Batista
Kurt Angle
Rey Mysterio
Booker T
The Undertaker
Edge
The Great Khali
CM Punk
Chris Jericho
John Cena
Jeff Hardy
Jack Swagger
Kane
Dolph Ziggler
Christian
Mark Henry
The Big Show
Daniel Bryan
Sheamus
Alberto Del Rio

Taker would be #1 easily for me, followed by HBK, Punk, Benoit and Henry.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ATF said:


> BARRETT *IS* FUCKING GOOD. NOT EVEN A QUESTION OF OPINION. PERIOD. :barrett


TRUTH!

Although the four-way combo does sound kinda crappy due to Big E and RVD. Just let Barrett and Cesaro go at it, that's all I ask.



> Now, anyways, little game: what is your Top 5 favorites out of the list of World Heavyweight Champions (not your Top 5 champions, your Top 5 overall that were champions)?
> 
> Triple H
> Shawn Michaels
> ...


1) Taker
2) Edge
3) Punk
4) Henry
5) Bryan


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Big E sucks, Barrett isn't good, RVD hasn't had a great match in almost a year (last one was that Raw match with Jericho). Cesaro needs more than THAT to pull off a great match. I'd rather just watch Cesaro vs RVD than have those two other imbeciles in their fucking shit up.
> 
> If Cesaro has a match with Ziggler tonight and they get 15 minutes......I think I might ACTUALLY tear up a bit. Outside of Bryan, Dolph is the guy I feel the most horrible for on the current roster.


I almost want to watch that RVD/Jericho match to see if it's good. Almost.

Cesaro/Ziggler would be dope. Loved their match on Main Event last year. They usually try to give the UK crowd at least one good, lengthy match don't they?



ATF said:


> BARRETT *IS* FUCKING GOOD. NOT EVEN A QUESTION OF OPINION. PERIOD. :barrett
> 
> Now, anyways, little game: what is your Top 5 favorites out of the list of World Heavyweight Champions (not your Top 5 champions, your Top 5 overall that were champions)?
> 
> ...


HHH, Punk, Bryan, Jericho, Christian.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Finally got around to watching the Rey/Eddie matches from their feud in 2005


Judgement Day match : ****1/4( aslo watched Chavo/London from the same show, fantastic match! I haven't seen JBL/Cena in a long time, but I think by the line-up this was a good show )
The Smackdown 6/23/05 match: ****1/2 , probably a top 10 TV match ever
Great American Bash: I like this one,so much drama lol, ***3/4 ( also watched Orlando vs Benoit from the same card, best Orlando match ever? )
Summerslam: ***3/4 again
Smackdown Cage : **** , loved this one, damn SD used to be unskippable 

oh and to throw it out there, Halloween Havoc 1997 match is an easy *****


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> BARRETT *IS* FUCKING GOOD. NOT EVEN A QUESTION OF OPINION. PERIOD. :barrett
> 
> Now, anyways, little game: what is your Top 5 favorites out of the list of World Heavyweight Champions (not your Top 5 champions, your Top 5 overall that were champions)?
> 
> ...



1. Chris Benoit (GOAT WHC run)
2. Taker
3. Henry (2nd Greatest WHC Run)
4. Rey Mysterio
5. Daniel Bryan

If Eddie had just lived another month or 2, he'd have been my favorite World Champ 



etrbaby said:


> Finally got around to watching the Rey/Eddie matches from their feud in 2005
> 
> 
> Judgement Day match : ****1/4( aslo watched Chavo/London from the same show, fantastic match! I haven't seen JBL/Cena in a long time, but I think by the line-up this was a good show )
> ...



Personal preference maybe, but I think the 6/23/05 SD match SMOKES that Havoc Match, and I rated the Havoc Match the #4 Greatest Match in WCW History. So that shows how highly I think of it. Will you at least grant that, the character work from Eddie in that SD match is one of the best performances by any wrestler ever? That lip quiver thing he does when the camera man zooms on his face during his entrance.....:mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Sorry double post


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

As much as I hate to say it, my interest in WWE right now is fading. Evolution/Shield should deliver on Payback but that's about as far as it goes for my interest plus the weeklies are the same shit every time. Bryan has that shitty horror storyline with Kane and Brie (plus injury now), Cesaro has had his momentum killed and even though I like Sheamus, he hasn't done much since returning. Cena/Wyatt is the drizzling shits. Just win the LMS, John, and get it over with for good.

Top 5 favorite WHC: Benoit, Orton, Taker, Jericho and Henry
And for good measure, 5 least fav: Punk, Khali, Ziggler, Swagger & Del Rio


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm also losing interest in WWE tbh. Then again, I've lost interest a long while now. I just watch it because I love wrestling. There's a lot of good talent that just aren't in any feuds. They deliver good-great matches every week but that's where it stops.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> I'm also losing interest in WWE tbh. Then again, I've lost interest a long while now. I just watch it because I love wrestling. There's a lot of good talent that just aren't in any feuds. They deliver good-great matches every week but that's where it stops.



That's pretty much where I'm at. I watch the PPV's cause I get them for free now with the network, and I'll watch replays of Raw and Smackdown if one of my "guys" (Bryan, Cesaro, Shield, Wyatt Family, Ziggler, Rhodes Bros) have a match I hear is worth watching, but my interest really couldn't be much lower than it is right now. Bryan's out with the neck injury, WWE are botching the fuck out of Cesaros push, Wyatt is in a feud with Cena that is just getting worse and worse every week, Ziggler and Rhodes Bros are doing nothing....I mean really the only thing that's worthwhile is he Shield. As great as they are, I'm not about to watch 5 hours combined of live Raw and Smackdown just to see them.

Thank god for the Network adding all the Clash's and having all the old PPV's to watch. It's giving me my pro graps fix now. That and finally seeing the KILLER Punk vs Joe feud from ROH in full. For anyone that hasn't seen these matches, I really can't reccomend them enough. Those matches are what wrestling is all about.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

if they would ever upload Joe/Punk I, I would :kobe8

Nah, the product been in the dumps for a while, my love for pro wrestling is the only reason for watching. So many guy back there that can do wonders are constantly jobbed out or just left with off and on pushes that all result in most of them getting no reactions leading to nothing for them. Can only rely on the same 3-4 guys for so long


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

I can't stop watching despite hating the product so much at times


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I watch regularly now, but I have times where I just don't care tbh.

Right now one of the reasons I watch is your avatar, Rainmakah - that BLISS of a woman :banderas


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I THOT IT WAZ A NEW ERA DOE? 

I'm similar to cjack where I'll watch pimped matches and PPVs, thats pretty much it since like the week after mania



Spoiler: RAW Spoiler



Bryan has been stripped of the titles :wall


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

NAITCH said:


> if they would ever upload Joe/Punk I, I would :kobe8
> 
> Nah, the product been in the dumps for a while, my love for pro wrestling is the only reason for watching. So many guy back there that can do wonders are constantly jobbed out or just left with off and on pushes that all result in most of them getting no reactions leading to nothing for them. Can only rely on the same 3-4 guys for so long


If I knew how to rip from DVD's I'd upload the entire set for you 

I'm guessing you HAVE seen this, being the Michaels fan that you are, but if you or anyone else hasn't, I STRONGLY reccomend the Michaels/Jannety match from Raw 7-19-93. It's on the Network. It's not the famous match everyone has seen, where Jannetty comes out in a hoodie and wins the title from Michaels. That match is really really good, this one is GREAT. Jannetty comes out in quite possibly the ugliest tights I've ever seen, and proceeds to just TEAR IT DOWN with Michaels for a good 10-15 minutes. There is a restart but it doesn't hurt the match at all, and everything culminates with Jannetty taking a NASTY bump to the outside. Good lord he really ate it, I'm sure he was feeling that one for WEEKS. Bad ass match all around.

Anyways, my rating for Michaels/Jannetty 7/19/93: ****

Check it out brothers. I'm off to go find Angle/Jannetty and watch that for the first time, heard rave reviews from Yeah1993 and Hayley.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yes I have, its very good and much better than the one that is praised

And here 


Angle/Jannetty is Amazing and out of this world


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Holy shit guys, what did I just see???? Did I just see Marty fuckin Jannetty give Angle one of the 10 best matches of his career??? I can't be alone in thinking that match is fucking GREAT, like I had more fun watching that match than any I've seen in a while. I no joke think that's better than all but 1 of the Angle/Michaels matches. How awesome was Jannetty that night? I'm just completely stunned that match was that good, I didn't want to believe the hype but man it almost seems like it's not hyped enough. When Jannetty counters the Ankle lock in the end, even though I 100% knew better, I started thinking "my god, Marty is gonna fuckin pull this one out! Go Marty!" That was both a great under dog performance AND a great performance of a wily vet showing the younger guy he's still got some tricks up his sleeve. Counter after counter, you can tell Angle is just getting totally steemed that this "washed up has-been" has an answer for everything he throws at him. If that match had taken place in ROH, I can guaruntee in the end we would have heard "PLEASE DONT TAP! PLEASE DONT TAP!" Chants at the end. Just a beuatiful, beautiful match.

Final rating: ****1/4. I'd love to go higher too cause the FEELS were just off the charts for that match. This exposes the flaws in the snowflake system, because while I can conscienably give that match a higher rating, I can also say for sure I'd rather watch this match than about a dozen or more matches I've given ****1/2.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Angle/Jannetty is a damn good example of how great Kurt could be when he used his mat work and technical moves in a logical, effective fashion. Dude could've been the Bret Hart of the 2000s if he had a better understanding of how to structure a match and put it all together on a consistent basis.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Link plz to that Angle/Jannety match


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I just posted geek


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

:StephenA


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

I remember being 10/11 at the time, and seeing that match on Smackdown and just being amazed by how good this guy was against Angle after all these years. The perception was that Jannetty was always just "Shawn Michaels partner" and nothing more, in reality if he were on the roster today, in his prime, he would be one of the ten best workers on the roster. Tremendous babyface. The problem was obviously his personal demons and the fact that he was a small babyface, which quite honestly, were rarely pushed back in the day (honestly Bret Hart is one of the only ones I can think of after the Hogan-era). Have to finish watching that match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Angle/Jannetty is a damn good example of how great Kurt could be when he used his mat work and technical moves in a logical, effective fashion. Dude could've been the Bret Hart of the 2000s if he had a better understanding of how to structure a match and put it all together on a consistent basis.



Ive always felt one of if not THE greatest matches that never happened would be a Bret Hart in his prime vs Angle in his prime. Angle had all the tools you could ever want in a wrestler, except the mind at times. Bret in his prime was just perfection from a wrestling psychology stand point. Seeing those two face off for 20-30 minutes would just be breathtaking.

Angle is undoubtedly the most frustating wrestler of all time. When he was on, very few could ever say they were on his level. When he is off, he's every horrible cliche you can think of. That said, during his time in WWE, he had too many classics for anyone to dismiss him as anything other than a great wrestler:

Best Angle Singles Matches:

1. Vs Austin SS 2001 *****
2. Vs Taker SD 2003 ****1/2
3. Vs Brock SS 2003 ****1/2
4. Vs Brock IM SD 2003 ****1/2
5. Vs Taker NWO 2006 ****1/2
7. Vs Rey SS 2002 ****1/2
8. Vs HBK WM 21 ****1/2
9. Vs Austin Unforgiven 2001 ****1/4
10. Vs Jannetty SD 2005 ****1/4
11. Vs Flair Raw 2005 ****
12. Vs Austin Raw 2001 ****
13. Vs Taker SD 2006 ****
14. Vs Eddie SD 2005 ****
15. Vs Eddie 2/3 Falls SD 2004 ****
16. Vs Benoit Backlash 2001 ****
17. Vs Benoit Unforgiven 2002 ****
18. Vs Benoit Royal Rumble 2003 ****
19. Vs Cena No Mercy 2003 ****
20. Vs Brock WM 19 ****

And that's not counting all the good/great tags he was involved in, or the great triple threats like Vengeance 2002 & 2003.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

etrbaby said:


> Finally got around to watching the Rey/Eddie matches from their feud in 2005
> 
> 
> Judgement Day match : ****1/4( aslo watched Chavo/London from the same show, fantastic match! I haven't seen JBL/Cena in a long time, but I think by the line-up this was a good show )
> ...


I say Orlando's best match was against Benoit at Summerslam the next month... :westbrook5


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Goldberg vs Jericho from Bad Blood or Show vs Triple H from New Years Revolution?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I fuckin told everybody Angle/Jannetty was awesome and smoked all of the Michaels matches. Maybe NOWWW you'll watch Glacier/the Cat v. Wrath/Mortis.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

:bryan3 :hhh2 at Mania better than wen and Bret at Mania? Hmmm not so sure about that. I think :bryan3 :hhh2 is match of the year (for me) so far but not better than wen and Bret. 

I actually really enjoy :cena3 and Big Show at WM20. Really fun. That crowd was great all night.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Goldberg vs Jericho from Bad Blood or Show vs Triple H from New Years Revolution?


Show/HHH. Two men performed well in that match, whereas only one and a portion did well in the other.

Count me on the side that approves of Cena/Show from Mania. Not a fan of their Smackdown 2009 match though. It wasn't some special work of art. It was boring. Their RAW match that same year accomplished more in a third of the time. Judgment Day match is good too.

Angle/Jannetty and Angle/Flair are easily his two best matches in 2005. Like nothing comes close. Geriatrics FTW.

After going through all these yearly projects, I honestly don't mind the state of the WWE at the moment. As great as 2000 was, the midcard was still pretty directionless. Benoit had the Jericho feud and the Rock feud, but the Jericho feud was kinda on-and-off towards the end, and when he was IC champ, he just had random matches on the card and that's about it. Eddie Guerrero did nothing else besides be Chyna's manslave. Tazz didn't exist. Too Cool mainly just wrestled random six man tags after a while and never really engaged in any feuds. The Hardyz/E&C/Dudleys feud got kinda plain and stale by the end of the year. Kane kept appearing and disappearing. For a good couple months, Undertaker did fuck all. Shit, I don't even know what Rock was doing once Austin came back. When you realize that today's problems existed in the past too, you can learn to look past them.

EDIT: LMFAO at the WWE doing such a poor job at dubbing over the CM Punk chants.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Two matches in for the Payback card and it's already more extreme than Extreme Rules. :lol Shield vs. Evolution No Holds Barred Elimination match could be epic or horrible. Hoping for epic. No doubt it's main eventing.

The two matches I watched from the Beat The Clock tournament tonight were ass. Del Rio/RVD was disgusting.

EDIT: Cesaro vs. Henry tomorrow on Main Event! :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ehh got a dream match out of tonight, the rest of raw was shit though same old same old


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> As much as I hate to say it, my interest in WWE right now is fading. Evolution/Shield should deliver on Payback but that's about as far as it goes for my interest plus the weeklies are the same shit every time. Bryan has that shitty horror storyline with Kane and Brie (plus injury now), Cesaro has had his momentum killed and even though I like Sheamus, he hasn't done much since returning. Cena/Wyatt is the drizzling shits. Just win the LMS, John, and get it over with for good.


 THIS. Everything was gold up until ER, but as you said, the Bryan/Kane story is just camp, Cena/Wyatt is garbage (coming from a big fan of both), and the story for Evolution/Shield is weak (even though I know this will be a great match).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What exactly is so weak about Evolution/Shield?


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

I may be in the minority here, but I'm pretty disappointed with the listing for the GAB set. I realize that WWE is capitalizing on the fact that their WCW releases are top sellers and they don't want to dilute it, but I was really hoping to see quite a few matches from the WWE version of the show make it onto the set, and unless they're Blu-ray exclusives, it looks unlikely.

I was really hoping for:

Guerrero/JBL - Texas Bullrope Match
Mysterio/Guerrero
Batista/JBL
Khali/Batista/Kane
Cena/Lashley
HBK/Jericho
Cena/JBL
Jericho/Mysterio
Punk/Hardy
Orton/HHH


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Wonder if we'll see HHH work a singles match between now and Payback. Last couple weeks they did Orton/Reigns and Batista/Rollins. Maybe Ambrose/Trips next week? :mark:


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Two matches in for the Payback card and it's already more extreme than Extreme Rules. :lol Shield vs. Evolution No Holds Barred Elimination match could be epic or horrible. Hoping for epic. No doubt it's main eventing.
> 
> The two matches I watched from the Beat The Clock tournament tonight were ass. Del Rio/RVD was disgusting.
> 
> *EDIT: Cesaro vs. Henry tomorrow on Main Event! :mark:*


Pop-up European incoming~!~!~!~!:cesaro


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Jericho/Benoit (Ladder Match) ****
Always said i'd watch it as the match has often been talked up

Angle/Jannetty is great and at the time i never saw or heard of Marty Jannetty before that.
Same as Tatanka when he was Matt Hardy's partner against MNM in 2006, a match i thought was very good.
.........

When it comes to *Payback*..*Wyatt* is awesome but *Cena* doing his typical "nevergiveup" crap has killed the feud. While i don't want Cena to win LMS i don't see what storyline-wise we'd get from Wyatt winning. I'm tired of the *Evolution/Shield* brawls and am simple waiting for the rematch. *Bryan/Kane* started off hot with Kane's first attack, continued at ER and quickly froze the next night on RAW. I was worried they'd make Brie a big part of the feud and they did just that.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> EDIT: Cesaro vs. Henry tomorrow on Main Event! :mark:


WHO'S THE HEEL? Hopefully it gets some length and isn't purely to get Cesaro to swing Henry twice.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> Wonder if we'll see HHH work a singles match between now and Payback. Last couple weeks they did Orton/Reigns and Batista/Rollins. Maybe Ambrose/Trips next week? :mark:


As a fan of both, HHH/Ambrose would be so fucking awesome to see down the road.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> As a fan of both, HHH/Ambrose would be so fucking awesome to see down the road.


THIS^:clap


----------



## StarshipAwsome (Apr 28, 2014)

Was Cena vs. Harper from RAW worth watching?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Rock vs Austin 3/30/03-WMXIX

I think the common notion of this match is that Rock carried Austin, that's just not true from what I saw, what I will tell you is one's performance was superior to the other's, that is all.

The beginning is kinda odd, Austin whips Rock like it's a Goliath squash for 6 minutes straight, the feud is constantly quoted as personal (not about titles, not about money) so I guess it's understandable. The content of the beginning is great though, much better brawling than their previous matches and no signs of a slop-fest (referring to the middle portion of the WM17 match where the punches were unbearable to watch). I like the contrast in moods between the two, Austin is already in serious, aggressive mode whilst Rock is being an uncaring and insulting jackass (as usual), popping crude facials, spouting nonsense and what not. Thinking about it now, it makes perfect sense, Rock tries for some cheap shots and gets his teeth kicked in for a long period of time and rightfully so, kinda like early hit karma (if that makes sense). The tide shifts eventually and you have a merciless Rock with all his overblown shenanigans intact, it's a joy and am specifically fond of how he prides himself when he outsmarts Austin, smacking his head with a cheeky "I'm smarter than you" grin. Now, the legwork being forgotten about is a plus in my book because whilst it provided a superb platform for The Rock to show off his character antics, it doesn't really suit the big time feel of the match, it's Rock/Austin not a Benoit/Angle or another submission orientated pairing, these two are known for that guns blazing, smash mouth, explosive/electric style and they're going to end their final match in such a way, it's only suitable imo. Besides, It's not like it looked to have a profound effect on Austin, I mean it was some mere kicks and a moment or two in an awfully executed sharpshooter thus the toughest sob on the planet brushing it aside is completely believable. Anyways, I liked how the stone cold shirt was a blunt jinx on The Rock, another tick under character work, genius. Rock tossing the shirt on the people's elbow RETAKE (further proving it's cursed) and imitating Austin's taunts, perfect execution of every rock bottom accompanied with Austin's magnificent selling (srsly, some of the best selling I've ever seen) and the hold on the last rock bottom, thumbing the final nail into the coffin so to speak, it's anti-climatic but the sheer emotion and poignant nature more than make up for the lack of shock, as listed above the subtle things definitely take this match to that phenomenal level. I could definitely see Shawn/Taker taking notes of the ending for WMXXVI, they're very similar to say the least . ****3/4


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Rock vs Austin - WM XIX: ***. Boring and just awful selling by Austin (maybe it was Rock, don't remember. the leg thing you mentioned). I'm a HUGE Austin mark but this match was a huge letdown.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

The leg work in addition to looking weak, was only a few minutes long and like I said it didn't suit the match, thankfully it ended as soon as it did. What did you think of Cena/Michaels at WM23, buxxx?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Damn, someone likes WM XIX Rock/Austin more than me? Awesome. I have it at ****1/2 and above their WM 17 match too. Probably the best performance ever from The Rock (Iron Man with HHH is up there too).


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> WHO'S THE HEEL? Hopefully it gets some length and isn't purely to get Cesaro to swing Henry twice.


Cesaro's the heel. My guess is it gets 10+ minutes. Most high profile matches on Main Event do.



StarshipAwsome said:


> Was Cena vs. Harper from RAW worth watching?


It is. Harper impressed on a big stage.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Damn, someone likes WM XIX Rock/Austin more than me? Awesome. I have it at ****1/2 and above their WM 17 match too. Probably the best performance ever from The Rock (Iron Man with HHH is up there too).



Hmmm, that's a good one, best Rocky performance. Well from a sheer entertainment standpoint, my favorite is the empty arena match with Foley. Rocky was just historical the entire time "Quit whining it's just mild sauce!" :lmao. From a bad ass stand point, Rock was a freaking monster in the RR I Quit match, he was really about as pumped up and sadistic as it gets in that one. From an outright wrestling stand point, I'd have to go with the Benoit Fully Loaded match, they blended slick wrestling moves with brawling extremely well in that one I though. His best match period was probably WM 17 with Austin, atleast in my view. His most impressive performance was the IronMan with Hunter (still shocked that match is as good as it is)..... So yea, I really don't know how to pick just one of those matches and say it was his undisputed best, because I liked different aspects of his work in each of those.

For the record, I like that WM 19 match, but it don't think it's near as good as WM 17. Last watches had WM 17 at ****3/4 and WM 19 at ****. I think Jericho/HBK was the best match at WM 19


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

How was Ziggler vs Henry last night? Saw it on the spoilers and was like :mark:

With the announcement of Henry/Cesaro for main event tonight I've officialy decided Main event is the best wrestling show on television atm, your guaranteed at least one :mark: level match it seems.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

No Holds Barred Elimination sounds pretty awesome for Evolution/Shield II. The only thing I'm worried about, which is a strong possibility imo, is Evolution taking out Ambrose and Rollins first and Reigns getting the superman booking. I guess I'd be okay with it as long as Ambrose and Rollins last a long time. Save all of the eliminations for late in the match so they can all look good.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> No Holds Barred Elimination sounds pretty awesome for Evolution/Shield II. The only thing I'm worried about, which is a strong possibility imo, is Evolution taking out Ambrose and Rollins first and Reigns getting the superman booking. I guess I'd be okay with it as long as Ambrose and Rollins last a long time. Save all of the eliminations for late in the match so they can all look good.



That was the first thing that crossed my mind when I heard it would have an elimination stip. I love Reigns, but I don't want them to book him strong at the expense of Rollins and Ambrose. So far, I feel they have done an excellent job of both showcasing Reigns as the power house while also allowing Ambrose and Rollins equal time to shine. Like in the Evolution match at ER, Ambrose works an AWESOME FIP segment to start things off, Rollins then follows up with an equally awesome one, then Reigns comes in, wrecks shit, then gets wrecked himself giving Rollins and Ambrose time to duke it out with Orton and Hunter on the outside. Rollins gets the highlight of the night with that dive, then Reigns fights back and gets the pin fall on Batista. Just a solidly booked match all around, everyone came out looking great. 

It was a similar deal with the Wyatt's, they teased Reigns getting superman booking in the end but ended up having the Wyatt's finish strong and had Reigns eat the pinfall. Another perfectly booked match.

I think for the most part, people in this thread like Reigns, and I definitely like him, I just don't want him ruined by premature super man booking and being pushed into a spot he's not ready for. They are doing a swell job with ALL of the Shield, for all the other shit they fuck up, the Shield have been the best booked thing WWE has done in years and years.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I like how they're not protecting Reigns from eating pins even though he clearly has the strongest booking of the trio. He scores most of their pinfalls but he takes a good set of their losses too.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Well, the booking of The Shield is the only consistent thing about the company, consistently good that is.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I can say Raw was a little bit better than usual. Three good matches marked the spot: Sheamus/Cesaro, Batista/Rollins and Cena/Harper. The former of these was not up to their typical standards, the crowd was terrible at first (later into it got better) and the ending was shenanigansmania, but what the hell, it was still an enjoyable cat and mouse chase'ish match with some nice fighting. Batista/Rollins itself was good, all including the outside brawl between the two factions given that it happened between the bells that is, but the full angle was one of if not the best in the entire feud imo. And Cena/Harper was, much like Cena/Cesaro in February, a showcase match for one Brodie Lee/Luke Harper. It was a Harper festival, not anything more or less than that. And it was glorious. Not better than Cena/Harper on Smackdown (which was AWESOME, ***1/2 for it), but still.

Everything else was just there for me, apart from Steph and Barrett's promos. Thank God that what I feared would happen regarding Bryan didn't, and Barrett delievered a rather faceish but convincing promo that made me proud be a fan of his, European nonetheless.

Match ratings:
Sheamus/Cesaro: ***
Batista/Rollins: **3/4 (full angle ruled though)
Cena/Harper: ***1/4

3 good matches on one Raw night for me. Not usual.

Current top 30 list of 2014 for me, with some updates, missed matches and honorable mentions:


Spoiler: list



(****3/4)
Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn, NXT Arrival
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Elimination Chamber

(****1/4)
Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan, WrestleMania 30
John Cena vs. Cesaro, Raw 2/17
The Shield vs. Evolution, Extreme Rules
Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt, Royal Rumble
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Main Event 4/8

(****)
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Batista, WrestleMania 30
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Raw 5/5
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Raw 3/3
Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus vs. Christian vs. Cesaro, Elimination Chamber

(***3/4)
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Raw 2/3
Daniel Bryan vs. Kane, Extreme Rules
30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble
John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt, WrestleMania 30
Randy Orton vs. Cesaro, Smackdown 2/14

(***1/2)
Sheamus vs. Bad News Barrett, Raw 4/21
Daniel Bryan vs. Cesaro, Smackdown 2/21
The Shield vs. The Real Americans, Raw 3/24
The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Main Event 3/18
The Shield vs. John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Sheamus, Raw 1/27
Sheamus & Christian vs. The Real Americans, 2/10
Sheamus vs. Dean Ambrose, Smackdown 5/9
Big E, John Cena & Sheamus vs. The Wyatt Family, Raw 4/7
John Cena vs. Luke Harper, Smackdown 3/21
The Rhodes Brothers vs. The Wyatt Family, Smackdown 1/3
Corey Graves vs. Sami Zayn, NXT 4/3
Paige vs. Emma, NXT Arrival
Sheamus vs. Christian, Smackdown 2/21
Sheamus vs. Cesaro, Main Event 5/14

(Honorable Mentions - ***1/2)
John Cena vs. Damien Sandow, Raw 1/13
Daniel Bryan vs. Alberto Del Rio, Raw 5/5
Jack Swagger vs. Cesaro, Smackdown 4/25


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Well, I can say Raw was a little bit better than usual. Three good matches marked the spot: Sheamus/Cesaro, Batista/Rollins and Cena/Harper. The former of these was not up to their typical standards, the crowd was terrible at first (later into it got better) and the ending was shenanigansmania, but what the hell, it was still an enjoyable cat and mouse chase'ish match with some nice fighting. Batista/Rollins itself was good, all including the outside brawl between the two factions given that it happened between the bells that is, but the full angle was one of if not the best in the entire feud imo. And Cena/Harper was, much like Cena/Cesaro in February, a showcase match for one Brodie Lee/Luke Harper. It was a Harper festival, not anything more or less than that. And it was glorious. Not better than Cena/Harper on Smackdown (which was AWESOME, ***1/2 for it), but still.
> 
> Everything else was just there for me, apart from Steph and Barrett's promos. Thank God that what I feared would happen regarding Bryan didn't, and Barrett delievered a rather faceish but convincing promo that made me proud be a fan of his, European nonetheless.
> 
> ...




So they aren't stripping Bryan? Thank fucking Christ, that would be HEART BREAKING to see an injured Bryan have to walk down the ramp and turn the title in. Then again it could really add to his under dog vibe upon his return, but the fact is there isn't a heel that can carry it while Bryan is gone. So the best thing to do is nothing I suspect.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Need something to watch


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Watch Canadian Stampede. Because yes.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

You know I might just do that, I've only seen the 10 man tag from that show


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You'll be thanking me when you do so. Guarandamnteed.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

NAITCH said:


> You know I might just do that, I've only seen the 10 man tag from that show



Seriously? Taka/Sasuke, Foley/Hunter, and Vader/Taker are all EXCELLENT. And of course the 10 man is one of the best tags in company history.

I think I gave the 3 under card matches **** each and the main event tag ****1/2.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> The leg work in addition to looking weak, was only a few minutes long and like I said it didn't suit the match, thankfully it ended as soon as it did. What did you think of Cena/Michaels at WM23, buxxx?


loved it. watched the for the first time earlier this year. gave it ****3/4 though I remember nothing about it now so maybe it didn't earn that kind of rating.

hated their universally praised RAW match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Funny how you guys mention Canadian Stampede as it's the next PPV in my 1997 run right now. I have a few Raw shows before it but I'm starting to think of skipping some of these episodes because they are kinda dull and I'm just interested in the Austin/Hart Foundation feud. Austin's mic skills are just :mark:.

Is the Pillman/Austin match a couple of weeks after King of the Ring any good? I wanna get into more of Pillman's work because on the mic he's outstanding.

On a different note, I finally watched Savage vs Flair from WM8 last night and it was a pretty good match. Around 4 stars sounds right. Heenan is probably the greatest commentator after Good Ol' JR.


----------



## chargebeam (Jul 12, 2011)

Question about the Wrestlemania XXX DVD. Does anybody know if the show has been edited from its original PPV broadcast?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> loved it. watched the for the first time earlier this year. gave it ****3/4 though I remember nothing about it now so maybe it didn't earn that kind of rating.
> 
> hated their universally praised RAW match.


I used to be in your camp, but after recent re-watched I have the Raw match at ****1/2 and the WM 23 match at ****. Obviously I love both matches, but that Raw match on a recent rewatch just really, really clicked for me. Perfect feel, perfect execution, and Michaels gave possibly the best or second best in ring performance of his entire second run. I'm not saying it was Michaels best match in his second run, I just thought it was one of his two best performances (the other being WM 25).

I'm curious, you have that WM 23 match at ****3/4, does that mean you think it's superior to that Taker/Batista masterpiece?



Choke2Death said:


> Funny how you guys mention Canadian Stampede as it's the next PPV in my 1997 run right now. I have a few Raw shows before it but I'm starting to think of skipping some of these episodes because they are kinda dull and I'm just interested in the Austin/Hart Foundation feud. Austin's mic skills are just :mark:.
> 
> Is the Pillman/Austin match a couple of weeks after King of the Ring any good? I wanna get into more of Pillman's work because on the mic he's outstanding.
> 
> On a different note, I finally watched Savage vs Flair from WM8 last night and it was a pretty good match. Around 4 stars sounds right. Heenan is probably the greatest commentator after Good Ol' JR.



You'll love CS 1997 dude, one of the 5 best PPV's of all time IMO. 4 GREAT matches, 1 being an all time classic, in a 2 hour, easy to watch all the way through show? Hard to top that. Foley and Hunter tear it up (they have to be near the top of anyone's list for best chemistry in the ring ever, they wrestled so many times and ALWAYS had great matches), Taka and Sasuke tear it up, and Vader and Taker hold a classic big man battle. Plus that 10 man. Oh boy, I think I might need to watch that show again 


Speaking of Foley and Hunter, here is what I have their series of matches rated at, am I missing any?

KotR 1997: ****
CS 1997: ****
SS 1997: ****
ONO 1997: ****
Raw FCA: ****1/4
RR 2000: *****
NWO 2000: ****1/2

That's 7 GREAT matches on PPV and TV, I don't know of many wrestlers who managed that over a 3 year span.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Never watched Taker/Batista.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

bigbuxxx said:


> *Need to watch* Taker/Batista.


Fixed. 

Quick ratings:

Brock/Benoit for WWE Belt in late 2003: ****1/4
Rey/Benoit, two weeks before No Mercy 2002: ****
Edge/Angle Backlash 2002: ****1/4
Eddie/Benoit, Vengeance 2003: ***3/4


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I'm downloading it now (despite having the network :faint. I've just never enjoyed watching either guy.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Way too low on that Benoit/Eddie match imo, gave that ****1/4 on last watch(Don't listen to Cody, hes wrong )


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

bigbuxxx said:


> I'm downloading it now (despite having the network :faint. I've just never enjoyed watching either guy.


This was everyone's feeling heading into the match. There's a reason that despite this being Taker's first title win in 6 years and coming off a Rumble win, it was in the middle of the show. Dave was horrible in 2006 and most of 2007. EVERYONE thought this match would suck. Then Dave did an interview saying that this match would be Steamboat/Savage of this Wrestlemania and EVERYONE laughed. Then... this match happened. Last watch: ****1/4



The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Way too low on that Benoit/Eddie match imo, gave that ****1/4 on last watch(Don't listen to Cody, hes wrong )


Probably need a rewatch, was a tad distracted during it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Coolquip said:


> This was everyone's feeling heading into the match. There's a reason that despite this being Taker's first title win in 6 years and coming off a Rumble win, it was in the middle of the show. Dave was horrible in 2006 and most of 2007. EVERYONE thought this match would suck. Then Dave did an interview saying that this match would be Steamboat/Savage of this Wrestlemania and EVERYONE laughed. Then... this match happened. Last watch: ****1/4
> 
> 
> 
> Probably need a rewatch, was a tad distracted during it.



I've also seen in interviews that, the day of WM 23 Dave and Taker were informed that a) their match would be in the middle of the card and b) that their time was cut cause Shawn and Cena needed more time. Apparently this pissed them off big time, so they scrapped the match they had planned and went with something entirely different, and that's why you saw a fired up Batista come out and just KILL IT with the Deadman that might. That match is second only to Vengeance 05' as Batista's best match, and outside of the 2 matches with Shawn, I think it's the 3rd best Streak match. They cram so much into that 17 minutes or so, it's just a classic. Dave and Taker never had a BAD match that I know of, but that one is the crowning achievement of their feud. It also started the trend of the Streak match stealing the show (prior to WM 21 it was never known as the "Streak" so I don't count WM 12 and 14).

And yea, that Vengeance 2003 match is just the shit, period. I have it at ****1/2.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Batista-Taker Wrestlemania is overrated as hell IMO. It's decent but nowhere near a classic.

***1/2.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Ryan193 said:


> Batista-Taker Wrestlemania is overrated as hell IMO. It's decent but nowhere near a classic.
> 
> ***1/2.


Fucking finally, someone with sense.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Has there ever been a show of any kind where every match was at least four stars? I know it's only four matches, but the entire roster snapped in those four matches at IYH:CS. I'm really happy that Undertaker/Vader is getting its due too. Very underrated hidden gem. Taker specifically was tremendous working from under. I always mark out whenever he does those rapid punches to the guts on his knees. Nobody his size (and very few of any size) can match Taker's babyface instincts.

Rewatched a couple matches that have been talked about these past couple weeks: Edge/Mysterio vs. Benoit/Angle at No Mercy 2002 and Brock/HHH at Summerslam. 

While the former match was not the *****1/2* classic that I once had it at, I still think it's very good. The beginning was a lot stronger than I remember it being, especially the Angle/Rey interactions reminiscent of their MOTN at Summerslam 2002. When Edge came in, I think this is where people's opinions here are split. I personally liked his FIP segment more than most, but my problem with it is that Benoit and Angle both did one too many control segments. Initially it was very interesting, but then at some point, both Benoit and Angle started doing rest holds instead of anything that actually added to the match. When Mysterio finally got tagged in, the match went into a higher gear and things became very interesting again. Don't remember too much about what happens afterwards, but that was kind of the theme for a lot of the match. Nothing at all was bad, but there were quite a few time lapses. I don't know if the solution to fix that would be to truncate the match, but they probably could have done some cooler things to fill out those lull periods. Ending was pretty fun and I liked how Edge didn't over-dramatize the Angle Lock. All in all, it was a very good match, but not a classic by any means. I think I would take at least two Bookdust/Vitamin C matches over it. Maybe even their Smackdown match.





Brock/HHH was a match that I liked "in theory", but the execution was not as great as it could have been. What I mean is that if I were to write about what happened in the match and what I liked about it, it would be filled with praise, but when watching it, the full product would not have done the written description justice. That impression maintained itself on this rewatch, but I did like it more than before. Beginning was not bad and I actually didn't mind HHH getting the upper hand for a little bit, especially when it led to Brock taking off the gloves :mark:. Afterwards, Brock's control segment was technically very sound with lots of nice slams that targeted the arm. However, the pace was slow to the point where it got kinda boring. This probably could have been alleviated if Brock was a bit more brutal or if HHH was a natural babyface, but the match kinda started feeling less like a war and more like a Dean Malenko match. Nonetheless, good job by Brock for targeting the arm. Also liked how even before Brock hurt his abdomen on the announce table later on in the match, HHH targeted Brock's stomach when he punched Brock. I also didn't like Brock continuously going for the kimura, but I'll elaborate on that later.

Towards the middle of the match, there was one moment that really pissed me off. Why in the name of Meng is Brock Lesnar doing a small package for a one count? How does that make even the slightest bit of sense? And if I recall correctly, HHH does a suplex not soon after. They almost redeem this travesty with the best part of the match. When HHH shoves Brock into the announce table leading to Brock selling his past history with stomach illnesses, I jumped with jubilation. What a genius spot akin to Michelangelo painting the Sistine Chapel or Stephen Curry shooting a fast break three. Brock sold it so well that I legitimately thought he got seriously hurt. Triple H later follows this up with some nice knees and strikes towards Brock's stomach. And yet somehow these two nearly ruin this work of genius when Lesnar resorts to low blowing HHH. 

The majority of this finishing stretch in all honesty was not very good to be honest. I liked Brock kicking out of at least one Pedigree, but something about that Pedigree occurring right after Brock reversed a Pedigree attempt and looked perfectly fine felt pretty silly. And then to top it all off, Brock hit an F-5 that Triple H kicked out of. This finisher trading in a match that didn't really need it felt so unnatural. When Lesnar locked in the kimura, it really did not feel special at all either because he kept spamming the damn kimura too many times throughout the match. I liked HHH trying to punch Lesnar's midsection to get out of the kimura, but Lesnar just let HHH go instead of keeping the kimura locked until he was forced to release it. Despite all this, the ending with the Pedigree to kimura did rule and it made Lesnar look strong. However, it would have once again been much more impactful if Lesnar didn't kimura-spam.

To summarize, I definitely liked this match a lot more and when there were good moments, they were moments that rivaled those from the Cena match. But Cena/Lesnar only had one slip-up with its poor ending with very strong beginnings and middles. I don't know if I can call the second half of this match something even close to the caliber of Cena/Lesnar minus the finish. These two also just did not click. It's hard to identify what it was, but there's clearly not a natural chemistry between the two. Compare the sequences in this match to those from both the Cena and Punk matches and its clear as day. However, I will say that I won't blame HHH for it for the most part. Prior to the rewatch, I thought this match was a total carryjob by Lesnar and Triple H tried his best to ruin it. Definitely going to retract that statement as Triple H actually had multiple good moments here. He's always been a good seller and his offense when Lesnar hurt his abdomen was largely good. He's just not the ideal Lesnar opponent, which brings me to another point. As great as Lesnar is and as much as we praise him (and rightfully so), I'm afraid that Lesnar really does need a specific type of worker to have great matches. He needs those natural babyfaces that are willing to ragdoll themselves, and not just ragdoll themselves, but let themselves get their ass kicked without hurting the pace of the match. Triple H just wasn't that guy unlike Cena and Punk. To me, it's a legitimate worry for future Brock bouts so long as he wrestles his current style.

I'm not a fan of wrestlers using weapons in No Holds Barred matches just for the sake of doing so, but this is definitely a case where weapons would have helped. It just doesn't seem believable for HHH to try to take down Brock without using some sort of equalizer. Maybe if HHH was a man of pride, but even as a babyface, he didn't mind using the sledgehammer. Imagine if instead of just punching Brock's ribs in order to get out of the kimura, HHH grabbed the sledgehammer and smashed Brock's abdomen. And if Lesnar STILL managed to win after HHH used his sledgehammer, it would put him over even more, as well as make the match look like an even bigger war. A missed opportunity that they utilized in their later matches, but those matches didn't have those great moments of fine psychology that this match had. Overall though, it's the third best Lesnar match since his return, but I wanted it to be so much better than it ended up being. ****1/2*-****3/4* for those who want a tl;dr.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Taker/Batista is one of my favorite matches ever, ****3/4 for it and my 2007 MOTY, GOAT Batista match, top 5 Taker match and second greatest streak match behind WM 25 with HBK. 

I know most will disagree


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I never got the hype for Batista/Taker at all. I haven't seen it since (when I first saw it I was 12) but I remember liking Cena/HBK more. As a matter of fact I completely flipped out back in 2007 when they had some best of WWE special on ECW and awarded Batista/Taker the MOTY.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> I never got the hype for Batista/Taker at all. I haven't seen it since (when I first saw it I was 12) but I remember liking Cena/HBK more. As a matter of fact I completely flipped out back in 2007 when they had some best of WWE special on ECW and awarded Batista/Taker the MOTY.


Maybe you should give it a watch since your tastes have undoubtedly changed since you were 12  

It's not my 2007 MotY though....that honor goes to the match I posted a few pages ago, Finlay vs Matt Hardy SD.

FF- you really hit the nail on the head with regards to your Brock/HHH review. I mean you just about echoed my thoughts EXACTLY. The match in theory is very very good, but for some reason it's just, well, dull for long stretches when you watch it. Brock spamming the Kimura certainly hurt things, but the biggest thing that hurt it is there is no fire in it. Hunter is just not a natural baby face and he's definitely not a good opponent for Lesnar. This is another thing you were 100% right about: Brock, working his current style, needs a special baby face to have a great match. He needs a guy who can just keep taking beating after beating, timing the hope spots just right, then looking and feeling completely demoralized when Lesnar cuts him off. He needs a guy fans legitimately want to see beat him: I don't think many fans other than devout Hunter marks wanted Brock to lose that match. Even with the ER match, you can see the shift: going in I'm betting the majority of the fans in attendance wanted Cena to lose, but John boy delivers such a fantastic baby face performance that the fans can't help but get behind him, especially when you couple it with the savage beating Brock was laying on Cena. 

So yea, I think for Brock's overwhelmingly physical style to result in a great match in the current WWE environment, he needs a natural baby face and someone who really knows how to sell their ass off then have tons of fire for the come back. I'm not saying he needs Ricky Steamboat levels to get there (although how awesome would an 89' Steamboat vs 2013 Brock match be????!!) but he does need to be the underdog while working the match.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Finished Taker/Batista. It was good but three stars come off because of the setup for the last ride. I always cringe when Taker does that. But I'll add a star because of the sweet powerslam through the table. All said and done, it adds up to 4 stars. It was a very enjoyable watch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ lol that sounds so awkward and unnecessary but I dont do STARZ anymore and a reason why


Taker/Batista is amazing but I think I liked Cena/Michaels more, havent seen both in a while though


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cena/Michaels I cant remember anything about, think I went ****1/4 for their RAW match 

IDK if its happened yet but how was Cesaro/Henry?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The one hour Raw match is so much better than WM23 for Cena/HBK imo. Latter is way too one-sided and that's always kinda ruined it for me. Batista/Taker is also better than HBK/Cena from the same show.

Finished Canadian Stampede and it was a hell of a show.

Mankind/HHH - ★★★½
Taka/Sasuke - ★★★¾
Taker/Vader - ★★★¾ (didn't expect the tombstone, thought the top rope chokeslam would be it)
10 Man Tag - ★★★★½ (THE ATMOSPHERE... it's unreal. Pure chaos in this match and I love it)

Already saw SummerSlam 97 last year but I'll refresh my memory on Bret/Taker and maybe Austin/Owen. And now finally The Rock is going to appear as THE ROCK and bring on the best non-Heyman mic work ever. :mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Dave and Taker never had a BAD match that I know of


You clearly haven't seen their Chairs match


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Chairs match :ti

CS ratings 

HHH/Mankind: ****
Taka/sasuke: ***3/4 
Vader/Taker: ****
Tag: ****1/2


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Love both Cena/Michaels and Dave/Taker


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cena/Michaels >>> Taker/Batista. I'll never understand what everyone gushes about over that match. **** 1/2 vs. *** 3/4 for me.

Canadian Stampede is a fantastic show, but still overrated among many of you imo. My ratings:

HHH/Mankind - *** 3/4 (my favorite MOTN)
Taka/Sasuke - *** 1/4 (this is just a sprint full of a bunch of spots)
Taker/Vader - *** 1/2 (good stuff)
10 Man Tag - **** (I don't get what's so "classic" about this one either. Atmosphere is wonderful but the match itself isn't near perfect like many say. I don't even remember the finish. haha)

Brock/HHH from Summerslam gets worse everytime I watch it. It puts me to sleep and is SO REPETITIVE, despite being worked logically and technically sound. ** 1/2 for it. I didn't like their Cage match either. It makes me angry to watch.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I think people "gush" over Taker/Batista because maybe they weren't expecting Batista to put on a great performance? Idk, maybe it's one of those cases where people had low expectations going in. I still need to re-watch the match but I just don't remember liking it much.

As for Cena/HBK, I remember liking the RAW match a lot more but then again it was the first time I saw a match go one hour.

Oh and I think I had Brock/HHH at ***3/4 at first but I may or may not have lowered it to ***1/2 since then. Imo, their worst encounter is Mania 29 followed by Extreme Rules. So I guess their best match was their Summerslam match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HHH vs. Daniel Bryan ~ Wrestlemania 30​- So I decided to rewatch this after hearing countless HHH marks and others praise this and look at me like I have 2 heads because I thought the main event and wyatt/cena were better. So I put it on to get a final thoughts on it. Early on, I liked what I saw, HHH taking Bryan lightly as he is a "B+" player and not on the same level as the game himself. The smirks expressed by H showed this, it seemed like he is toying w/ Bryan at first. Stephanie on the outside played her role very well, be as annoying as humanly possible and get into Bryan's head. However it didnt work, Bryan really stood out in this for me, his offense was very sharp and timely ,and he also made HHH look good by making his offense look grand. Even when HHH seemed alittle winded at parts, it didnt hurt the match because bryan helped out. Only flaw I have w/ this is at certain parts I lost abit focus and checked my phone. A sort of emptiness in those parts as I couldnt remember after watching it what happen. Another positive in ths match is HHH didnt try to make into an generic main event match w/ trading spots and bland control segments, it feel unique. He seemed to just go w/ the flow. All in all thought it was good, but I'd still have the other two over this, as I actually thought the "story" was better in the main event than here.That is not a knock on this.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

I thought Bryan/HHH was the match of the night, but the highest I'm willing to go is ****. The pacing was a little off for me, and I was expecting there to be more emotion or storytelling in the match, after the months and months of build up and it being Bryan vs. HHH for the first time. Still enjoyed it.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Batista/Ziggler no dq was solid from this week's Smackdown. Dolph was on point, getting his ass kicked and firing up when Batista needed a breath. Batista has defintly improved since his return.

worth checking out.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Lazyking said:


> Batista/Ziggler no dq was solid from this week's Smackdown. Dolph was on point, getting his ass kicked and firing up when Batista needed a breath. Batista has defintly improved since his return.
> 
> worth checking out.


Were you at the taping?


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

No. A youtube leak of the unedited smackdown is in the Smackdown forum. get it while its still up.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Thoughts/Stars for Summerslam 11?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

What the hell!? Didn't even know that was possible.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> What the hell!? Didn't even know that was possible.


Yup, no fake crowds and you get to hear Cole talking to Kevin Dunn after the wyatt promo lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™;34459785 said:


> Thoughts/Stars for Summerslam 11?


Opening 6-man is fun but forgettable, feels like a TV match. ** 1/2. Haven't seen Bryan/Barrett since the PPV aired but I gave it *** 1/2. I remember nothing of Sheamus/Henry except for a spear through the barrier. Orton/Christian I've seen a few times. Great match but I think it's heavily one sided in the late minutes. Too one sided for me to rate higher than *** 3/4, although most others do. Haven't seen Cena/Punk since it aired but highly doubt I'd drop it under ****. Pretty good PPV if you skip that Cee-Lo performance. 

Oh wait, there's Kelly Kelly vs. Beth Phoenix too. I actually think that was pretty decent.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Really, really enjoyed Batista vs. Ziggler from Smackdown (the one to air this Friday). Loved it.

I think the tide is finally turning for Ziggler and he'll slowly start getting another push. :mark: I'm not expecting WWE World title, but at least the IC or US title, please, WWE.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Well I'm watching Wrestlewar 1989 and I just managed to fall asleep while watching Flair/Steamboat. I'm really disappointed in myself. I don't know why I ever try to watch wrestling after midnight. I fall asleep right away almost every single time.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

RatedR10 said:


> Really, really enjoyed Batista vs. Ziggler from Smackdown (the one to air this Friday). Loved it.
> 
> I think the tide is finally turning for Ziggler and he'll slowly start getting another push. :mark: I'm not expecting WWE World title, but at least the IC or US title, please, WWE.


With some of the tweets still surprised he's employed


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> With some of the tweets still surprised he's employed


He's toned it down for a while now, thankfully.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I don't think WWE care about tweets unless they're derogatory or racial. I've come to the conclusion and have for awhile that Ziggler takes such a good beating that WWE feels like that's how he should be ultimately used. Plus he's had bad luck.

The guy is bit reckless in trying to steal the show, he could have torn his hamstring or hyper extended himself today doing a spot with the steps.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Continuing on my WCW ppv watching. At Uncensored 1997. I've heard the ending is epic so I'm looking forward to this. Hopefully it has very little to do with Sting :cuss: , but I have this feeling I'll be disappointed in that.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

bigbuxxx said:


> Continuing on my WCW ppv watching. At Uncensored 1997. I've heard the ending is epic so I'm looking forward to this. Hopefully it has very little to do with Sting :cuss: , but I have this feeling I'll be disappointed in that.


The ending to that main event was nearly the greatest moment of my life up until that point in my life.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

RatedR10 said:


> Really, really enjoyed Batista vs. Ziggler from Smackdown (the one to air this Friday). Loved it.
> 
> *I think the tide is finally turning for Ziggler and he'll slowly start getting another push. :mark: I'm not expecting WWE World title, but at least the IC or US title, please, WWE.*


:lel:berried:trips2


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

TaylorFitz said:


> The ending to that main event was nearly the greatest moment of my life up until that point in my life.


I have to admit I got goosebumps all over watching it. It was awesome. Seeing Hogan go in the ring after Sting put the bat down was such a mark out moment and I don't even like Sting :clap:clap:clap.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> IDK if its happened yet but how was Cesaro/Henry?


There was no match. :cuss:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

what?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Random matches I watched today:

HHH vs. HBK @ SummerSlam 2002: (Y)(Y)(Y)
Angle vs. Mysterio @ SummerSlam 2002: :dance:dance:dance
Mysterio vs. Tajiri vs. Noble @ Rebellion 2002: :cuss::cuss::cuss: Didn't live up to the hype. Didn't realize it was an elimination match and Tajiri was gone after about three minutes. What followed with Noble and Rey was fine but the ending sucked.
Mysterio vs. Tajiri @ No Mercy 2003: :mark::mark::mark:
Mysterio vs. Big Show @ Backlash 2003: :shocked::shocked::shocked: fun 3-5 minute match. Aftermath was scary looking.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Toshiaki Kawada vs Davey Boy Smith (Handheld 04.16.1993)*

x1vwe0g

Small upload.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Spoiler: Smackdown



Ziggler was Batista was good, but Sheamus vs ADR was way better.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Rah said:


> There was no match. :cuss:


:wall


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Piper's Pit - WWF Wrestlemania 5*

Live Version - Unedited with Morton Downey Jr included.

x1vxekc


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Question: I don't remember anything else from Unforgiven '01 apart from Austin/Angle and the KroniK TRAGEDY. What else GOOD was in that card? Was RVD/Jericho good?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Angle/Austin, RVD/Jericho and Rhyno/Tajiri are all good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tajiri/Rhyno? :nice


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> what?


Devolved into an arm-wrestling contest that Cesaro used to get a sneak uppercut on Henry to end the show. Kinda fun but not what we wanted.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

bigbuxxx said:


> I have to admit I got goosebumps all over watching it. It was awesome. Seeing Hogan go in the ring after Sting put the bat down was such a mark out moment and I don't even like Sting :clap:clap:clap.


That part was great and Luger almost beating the entire NWO on his own also made me go crazy as a kid. I was a kid so I didn't realize that there wasn't a chance in hell that the NWO would lose and disband forever so I really thought Luger was going to pull it off.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Question: I don't remember anything else from Unforgiven '01 apart from Austin/Angle and the KroniK TRAGEDY. What else GOOD was in that card? Was RVD/Jericho good?


Have the show on dvd. Opening 4-way tag is fun. Edge vs. Christian was a letdown and nothing special. Van Dam vs. Christian is good but overrated imo. All the major spots were stolen from Ladder matches (you'll see what I'm talking about once you watch). I believe I gave it *** 1/4. I remember Booker & Shane vs. Rock going way too long and being overbooked to hell. Tajiri vs. Rhyno is short but good. Angle vs. Austin is fantastic and ****. Overall not that great of a show though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There be a Sami Zayn Vs Adrian Neville Dark Match on XWT to download. Took place last night before SD, and was recorded by WWE so the quality is great. No commentary of course, and the sound seems to be focused on the ring rather than anything in the crowd . Match is nothing special, but fun to watch these guys do their thing for like 7 minutes.

Watched the Bruce Prichard Rebooking Montreal Screwjob this morning. Was disappointed. Was about an hour and a half long and only the last 20 minutes were him rebooking Montreal... and it wasn't what I expected either . I did learn though that apparently WWE were in SERIOUS talks with HOGAN to bring him back at the end of 1997.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

What'd you think of VEN 2001 Evan?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> What'd you think of VEN 2001 Evan?



I'm not Evan, but I'll say Jericho/Rocky is certainly a very good match, I gave it ***3/4. Regal/Edge is very good as well, and Taker/RVD is awesome. The start to Taker/RVD isn't all that great, but once they get up on the stage it gets loads better, I think I gave that ***3/4 on last watch as well.

Austin/Angle and Austin/Jericho from that show suck HARD though. I have no idea what was wrong with Steve that night.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vengeance 01 has an awesome Regal/Edge match and Undertaker/RVD match and then the rest of the event is trash. Triple main event thingy is awful. Just awful. 3 shitty matches, 2 of which was between guys who had great chemistry in previous matches but somehow lost it all that night.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Vengeance 01 has an awesome Regal/Edge match and Undertaker/RVD match and then the rest of the event is trash. Triple main event thingy is awful. Just awful. 3 shitty matches, 2 of which was between guys who had great chemistry in previous matches but somehow lost it all that night.



You didn't like Jericho/Rock at all? Really? I mean it's no where near as good as NM or RR but I thought it was still very good. Dead on with Angle/Austin and Jericho/Austin being trash though. I'd love to hear Steve answer why those matches sucked so bad, maybe I'll emAil him and he can answer it on his podcast


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Thought Rock/Jericho was awful. A giant mess.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Agree w/Cal


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Ok fellow wrestling nerds I need your help....

In the unk5 documentary the match they show highlights of with him and Hero where it was the last night at whatever barn they were at was on what date?


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

just watched RAW episode #13. 

Highlights of the show were a good match between IRS and Scott Steiner to start the show, and Luna's promo. 
Really warming up to Luna lately. Other matches had Papa Shango face Scott (2 Hotty) Taylor in a squash match, Tatanka
going up against Von Krush (Vito) and Friar Ferguson vs. Chris "Generic Jobber #33" Duffy. 

what I wanna know is that who in the hell came up with the Friar Ferguson gimmick? :lmao Glad to hear that this gimmick was shortlived because it's HORRIBLE. Surprised that it doesn't get brought up much when dicussing WOAT gimmicks.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Ok fellow wrestling nerds I need your help....
> 
> In the unk5 documentary the match they show highlights of with him and Hero where it was the last night at whatever barn they were at was on what date?


February 9th 2002 on this show http://www.smartmarkvideo.com/iwa-m...e-2-year-anniversary-show-charlestown-in.html


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Watching NOC 2012. Punk/Cena from this show is great, really looking forward to it. JBL was actually pretty good on commentary for this PPV. He was actually pretty good when he first came back. Shame he's gotten so bad lately.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

RFWHC said:


> Watching NOC 2012. Punk/Cena from this show is great, really looking forward to it. JBL was actually pretty good on commentary for this PPV. He was actually pretty good when he first came back. Shame he's gotten so bad lately.


Cena/Punk from NOC was a match where that no contest ending really worked well, and the match itself was really great. ****1/4 on my last watch. Cena/Punk from RAW 1000 is really as bad as I remember it? Gave it only **1/2 on my last rewatch


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> Cena/Punk from NOC was a match where that no contest ending really worked well, and the match itself was really great. ****1/4 on my last watch. Cena/Punk from RAW 1000 is really as bad as I remember it? Gave it only **1/2 on my last rewatch


I gave it 4 1/2 stars, but I'm biased with regards to this. In all honesty, I preferred it to Cena/Punk from Raw 2/25/13, even though I liked that too. But yeah, this is my second favorite Cena/Punk match. 

I thought the two did extremely well together, and some of the pre-match and post match antics are gold. Punk posing with the title for what seems to be over a minute :lmao.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

RFWHC said:


> I gave it 4 1/2 stars, but I'm biased with regards to this. In all honesty, I preferred it to Cena/Punk from Raw 2/25/13, even though I liked that too. But yeah, this is my second favorite Cena/Punk match.
> 
> I thought the two did extremely well together, and some of the pre-match and post match antics are gold. Punk posing with the title for what seems to be over a minute :lmao.



I slightly prefer the 2/25/13 Raw match to NoC as the second best in the Punk/Cena series, but not by a WHOLE lot, just 1/4* difference. That NoC match is spectacular though, love how they worked into the finishing sequence. Also love Punker coming out in pin stripes. I was never a Punk mark or anything, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss having him around now. Well, a fully revitalized Punk not the guy we saw at the Royal Rumble. Watching his feud with Joe from ROH really made me appreciate how good Punk was, I've been on a mini binge of sorts watching his matches lately.

For one of the best sub 10 minute matches, his match with Rey at WM is just sublime. They really go balls to the wall and just rip it up for 7 or so minutes. Some how, a 7 minute match is the MotN for WM 27 :lmao


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> For one of the best sub 10 minute matches, his match with Rey at WM is just sublime. They really go balls to the wall and just rip it up for 7 or so minutes. Some how, a 7 minute match is the MotN for WM 27 :lmao


Punk/Rey happened at WM26. It was good, but not better than Undertaker/HBK and Cena/Batista . At WM27 I remember Punk having an entertaining bout with Orton


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I slightly prefer the 2/25/13 Raw match to NoC as the second best in the Punk/Cena series, but not by a WHOLE lot, just 1/4* difference. That NoC match is spectacular though, love how they worked into the finishing sequence. Also love Punker coming out in pin stripes. *I was never a Punk mark or anything, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss having him around now.* Well, a fully revitalized Punk not the guy we saw at the Royal Rumble. Watching his feud with Joe from ROH really made me appreciate how good Punk was, I've been on a mini binge of sorts watching his matches lately.
> 
> For one of the best sub 10 minute matches, his match with Rey at WM is just sublime. They really go balls to the wall and just rip it up for 7 or so minutes. Some how, a 7 minute match is the MotN for WM 27 :lmao


Then you must imagine how it is for me.  But, tbh, it's not even that bad, I'm just watching old stuff instead of the current product, ATM.

The Raw match was probably a better pure wrestling match, but I just prefer the NOC match, b/c it's on PPV, and factors like flashy entrances, good crowd, extra emphasis, etc, make a match far more enjoyable for me. Like you said, NOC match was excellent, either way.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Im debating whether or not to watch Payback or not tbh, definitely out on TV for now, product is garbage atm. Trying to get into Puro again due to me not really having any current pro graps to watch


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Im debating whether or not to watch Payback or not tbh, definitely out on TV for now, product is garbage atm. Trying to get into Puro again due to me not really having any current pro graps to watch



Would you tolerate a suggestion? Not sure if you have seen this yet, but in my mind this is the best junior heavyweight match in NJPW history. Just absolutely amazing. And seeing that you loved their Vengeance 2003 match, and that this one blows it out of the water, I believe you'll dig it. I gave it the full *****. The finishing sequence is probably one of the best I've ever seen. Near fall after near fall, they just had the crowd damn near pissing themselves. Eddie says in his book that this match is the result of Chris and him being really frustrated with the way things were going in WCW, so they just took all their frustration out on each other and beat each other senseless.

Part 1:






Part 2 :

[YOUTUBE]N4io4jak[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Im debating whether or not to watch Payback or not tbh, definitely out on TV for now, product is garbage atm. Trying to get into Puro again due to me not really having any current pro graps to watch







I just gave this a proper watch, and rated it one gazillion stars. I swear a god, there's a 8 minute long figure four sequence that'll blow your mind. Simple, basic and dynamic. The payoff is huge. I want to fuck this match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm gonna watch that once I'm done with this house of cards episode I'm watching :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> I'm gonna watch that once I'm done with this house of cards episode I'm watching :mark:



Post your thoughts! I'm curious to see how many others see this match as a masterpiece. It seems a bit divisive from some reviews I've seen.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> I'm gonna watch that once I'm done with this house of cards episode I'm watching :mark:


Amazing you can stop HoC before the end of the season. Show is incredible. :cheer::dance


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watching it now! Video is at around the 16:00 point so I got a bit more to go, will for sure post my thoughts after 

I would love to watch the match you posted above but part 2 isnt showing up :lol

Bigbuxx: HOC :mark:


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Can't pm through rep since I just repped you but get to and through season two. Greatest things since....well since Breaking Bad last year. Me and my wife watched and immediately wanted to watch again.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Rewatched Trips/Taker from WM27, would say its the best match between the two, not saying much though considering the two others are at ***3/4 from my pov. This one had a sort of storytelling genius and actually achieved the epicness that Hunter occasionally aims for. Too much downtime and too much emphasis on spots are the main flaws though, ****1/4 overall. 

Punk/Taker whips the floor with all Trips/Taker matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Trying to get into Puro again due to me not really having any current pro graps to watch


Andre/Hansen


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Will try to get to Andre/Hanson soon, have heard a lot of good things about it 

*Antonio Inoki vs Tatsumi Fujinami NJPW 9/19/85​*
I LOVED this match, seriously one of my favorite Puro matches...out of the 20 or so that I have seen . This was quite long at around 35-40 minutes but it didn't feel like it dragged at all and it felt like it had the perfect length to be quite honest. Easily my favorite thing about this match was that for the first 30 minutes or so they worked a completely mat based match. Now, I'm not the biggest fan of matches full of mat work but I loved this for some odd reason. Ok but the first 30 minutes of this outside of the occasional Irish Whip and maybe 1 or 2 kicks this was an entire mat based match. Then when the last 10 minutes of the match rolled around they COMPLETELY threw the style they were working the entire match came out the window. The match turned into a stiff,hardworking match that was the exact opposite of the work that the two men had spent 30 minutes working to...and I fucking loved it. It was the perfect climax to the match, these guys were done with the slow attacks and just wanted to beat the crap out of one another. This is legit the first Inoki match I have seen and I want to watch more stuff from the guy, I have seen some Fujjinami stuff if I'm thinking of the guy I saw some matches of in WCW. Anyways this is fucking awesome and all should watch. ****3/4 from me.​


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Can I get peoples top whatever (100, 1000, 10, idc) RAW and SD! matches? Pretty sure I'm totally missing out on some tv greatness. Things I have down already:

Rey/Eddie 6/05
Brock/Benoit 12/03
Benoit/Austin 5/01 (twice)
Benoit/Jericho vs Austin/HHH 5/01
TLC III 5/01
Punk/Cena 2/13
ummmm......feed me more?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Perfect/Flair is def on their for me, cant remember the date..sometime in January 1993


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Thought Rock/Jericho was awful. A giant mess.


What are y'all thoughts on their match from RR '02? I haven't watched it in a long time myself. Their No Mercy '01 match was damn good though.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

**** for the RR 2002 match, ****1/4 for the NM match 

* for Ven 01


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Haven't seen Rock/Jericho's Vengeance match in forever, but I remember thinking it was good. And don't think I've seen anyone until now outright say it sucks and is a * match. I'll give it a re-watch at some point.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> Can I get peoples top whatever (100, 1000, 10, idc) RAW and SD! matches? Pretty sure I'm totally missing out on some tv greatness. Things I have down already:
> 
> Rey/Eddie 6/05
> Brock/Benoit 12/03
> ...


I can in fact feed you more. This is a mixture of all time great TV matches and some of my favorites throughout the years.

Mysterio vs. Morrison Smackdown '09
Miz vs. Morrison FCA RAW 2011
Angle/Lesnar Ironman Match
Owen/Bulldog '97
I don't remember the date or year (probably '97) but it's Austin & Dude Love vs. Owen & Bulldog from RAW
Shield matches from 2013 (6/3 vs. Hell No & Orton, vs. Hell No & Kofi from 5/20, and tag match vs. Rhodes Bros No DQ for the belts in October)
Cena vs. Michaels from 1/12/09 (this is one of my tops)
TLC on RAW Roulette '02 (the one where Kane is his own team)
Flair/Edge TLC
Edge/Orton from 4/30/07 (not sure if this one will hold up though)
Michaels vs. Benjamin from RAW Gold Rush '05

That's all I can come up with without my head exploding right now.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

bigbuxxx said:


> Can I get peoples top whatever (100, 1000, 10, idc) RAW and SD! matches? Pretty sure I'm totally missing out on some tv greatness. Things I have down already:
> 
> Rey/Eddie 6/05
> Brock/Benoit 12/03
> ...


My top 10:

1) Taker/Angle September 2003 SD
2) Lesnar/Angle SD Ironman 2003
3) HBK/Benjamin Raw 2005 Goldrush Match
4) HBK/Cena Raw 2007
5) Christian/Swagger ECW February 2009
6) Eddie/Rey June SD 2005
7) Wyatts/Shield Main Event 4/8/2014
8) Bryan/Cesaro Raw 7/22/2013
9) Punk/Cena Raw 2/25/2013
10) Taker/Cena SD June 2004


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Thanks guys. Will rep when I can.


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

Cool to see Cena/Taker from SD 2004 on your list, I've always really liked that match; it's a great match with Taker doing some rare heel stuff at the end. When Taker had that short heel/tweener period in 2004, that lasted like two weeks or something? Ha.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Puro, you say? Now is the time to hype up the great HAYABUSA








We spend so much time marveling over the stars of AJPW/NJPW/NOAH, and rightfully so. But other promotions in Japan such as BJW, FMW, RINGS, and WAR had equivalently talented stars. Hayabusa happens to be one of those all-time greats. In an hour from now, Yeah1993 will teach the uneducated about the great Volk Han.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayabusa's an odd one. I've really, really liked what I've seen from him but he can be kind of spotty (the kind of spotty I'm not into). I thought he was he's really fantastic at babyface-ish emotion, though. Kind of like 2000s Michaels but instead of old and shit at it, Hayabusa's not not old and not shit at it. He's always been a guy I've watched a bit of and gone ''right, one day I'mma make sure to watch a shitload of this wrestler.'' Hasn't happened yet, but it will. IT. WILLL.

VOLK HAN


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I've kinda felt that way about a few Hayabusa matches I've seen. The biggest case of this was a match he had with Masato Tanaka in 1998 where they both literally started trading finishers at the very beginning. Powerbombs and flying presses and roaring elbows off the bat. Just terrible. And Hayabusa also has a tendency of kicking out more often than he should, but considering that he was essentially the biggest star of FMW, and that he normally lost, it doesn't bother me too much. Still, dude is fun, and unlike 2000s Michaels, his offense looks good for the most part.

To start off the Volk Han session, let us all watch and review this:


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Man, I just turned on WWE network and I saw William Regal break his nose on a DDT to a chair on the live feed. Late 2001 Smackdown. truly nasty.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> Can I get peoples top whatever (100, 1000, 10, idc) RAW and SD! matches? Pretty sure I'm totally missing out on some tv greatness. Things I have down already:
> 
> Rey/Eddie 6/05
> Brock/Benoit 12/03
> ...


some that weren't mentioned i think
Benoit/Michaels from RAW 2004 , both ( one in February and one in May)
Bret Hart vs Sean Waltman
Shelton Benjamin vs Shawn 
Shawn vs Edge RAW Street Fight 2005
Shawn Michaels vs Marty Jannety 1993
Foley vs Funk No DQ or FCA,forgot tbh
Jeff vs Taker Ladder
Edge/Benoit/Angle/Eddie 4-way on SD
Edge/Eddie No DQ Smackdown 2002


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Some others:
TLC IV RAW 02
Shawn/Trips RAW 03
Benoit/Orton No Holds Barred SD 05/06?
Taker/Finlay SD 07
Cena/Jeff RAW 08

I should probably exclude Taker from the list considering your hatred for him, bigbuxxx. :lol


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> I should probably exclude Taker from the list considering your hatred for him, bigbuxxx. :lol


It's not that I hate him, it's just that I think he's extremely overrated. I enjoy quite a bit of his stuff. vs. Brock in 02, vs. Batista, vs. Edge, vs. HBK, vs. Angle. Everybody just puts him in the GOAT category and considering 90% of his work is trash and I thought his gimmick sucked, I just don't understand the love for him.

Going way off topic here. While I am d/l'ing a bunch of those RAW and SD! matches (thanks guys) I watched Misawa/Kobashi vs Taue/Kawada from 6/9/95. Let's get a little AJPW talk in here . Greatest match of all time for me. I don't think any match is even in the same universe as this and I don't think a match will ever get there. If you haven't seen this, shame on you.


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

Yeah that match, Holy Demon Army vs. Misawa/Kobashi from June '95 is awesome. Though from what I remember, I've preferred their 60 minute draw from October '95 or January '95, one of those two. I think both those were draws, can't remember which one I liked more.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

etrbaby said:


> Bret Hart vs Sean Waltman


Saw this recently from lots of pimping itt. Loved it. Awesome match from the up-and-comer.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

bigbuxxx said:


> Can I get peoples top whatever (100, 1000, 10, idc) RAW and SD! matches? Pretty sure I'm totally missing out on some tv greatness. Things I have down already:
> 
> Rey/Eddie 6/05
> Brock/Benoit 12/03
> ...


Shield v. Kofi/Bryan/Kane
Angle/ Lesnar Iron Man
Orton/Rey after WM22
Taker/Angle SM 06

Ill add more when i think of them


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

^Oh yeah, Angle/Taker from SD 2006 was a great match. I prefer that one over their No Way Out match to some degrees, except the finish of course.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

KingDio said:


> ^Oh yeah, Angle/Taker from SD 2006 was a great match. I prefer that one over their No Way Out match to some degrees, except the finish of course.


Actually, I meant the match from 2003, that way a typo , but yeah that match is quite great as well


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Calling the Kid "Waltman" for that RAW classic made me chuckle. But yeah that's still probably my favorite RAW match ever, tbhayley.

Other matches to watch: (I wished I was motivated to type up a ton, but ehhh)

Mankind vs Owen Hart - RAW 1/6/97
Mysterio vs Tajiri - SD 1/4/04
Mysterio vs Matt Hardy - SD 6/5/03
Mysterio & Riley vs Swagger & Miz - Tornado Tag - RAW 6/27/11
CM Punk vs Morrison - ECW 9/4/07
CM Punk vs William Regal - RAW 1/19/08
Finlay vs Matt Hardy - SD 6/22/07
Danielson vs Sheamus - Street Fight - RAW 7/30/12

just realized I put an ECW match in here. Meh. It's great.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Anything from tv is cool. Appreciate everything, guys.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Funny thing, I've always considered TLC III very overrated.

And I need to find Mysterio/Morrison somewhere. Jesus, Rey made him look like 100 million bucks there.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Mysterio vs. Morrison Smackdown '09


Wow what a match. Was rooting for Morrison by the end. Glad to see him pull it off. Can't believe I've never seen this. Rey is #4 on my all time favorites. 

The beginning of this SD! was the Punk dressed as Hardy promo (which i had never seen). The reaction of the fans was priceless. What a great moment.



> Funny thing, I've always considered TLC III very overrated.


5 fucking stars.

I'll host the Rey/Morrison match and put a link up.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Found it on DM.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

A lot more that somehow slipped my mind:

- Cena/Morrison ECW 2007
- Show/Flair ECW 2006
- Flair/Edge TLC 2006
- Flair/Trips RAW 2003
- Cactus Jack/Trips RAW Falls Count Anywhere 1997
- Orton/Christian SD 2011 (1st match together)
- Eddie/Angle SD 2005 
- RVD/Orton RAW 2003 (Armageddon rematch)
- Taker/Festus SD 2008
- Eddie/RVD RAW Ladder Match 2002
- Austin/Bret RAW Street Fight 1997
- RVD/Edge/Cena RAW 2006
- Kane/Austin RAW after KOTR 1998
- Punk/Taker SD 2010 (Not the ten minute squash)
- Bryan/Jericho NXT (forgot the year)
- Trips/Taker/Vladimir/Show SD 2009
- Austin/Shamrock RAW 1998
- Taker/Mysterio SD 2010


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> A lot more that somehow slipped my mind:
> 
> *- Cena/Morrison ECW 2007*
> - Show/Flair ECW 2006
> ...


:bynum I've never seen or heard of this. I've seen all the others(I EVEN SAW FESTUS/TAKER) but I never even fucking new this happened!


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Coolquip said:


> :bynum I've never seen or heard of this. I've seen all the others(I EVEN SAW FESTUS/TAKER) but I never even fucking new this happened!


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2e6ds_ecw-26-juin-2007-john-cena-vs-johnn_sport


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

iirc that match was awful and basically Cena squashing the new champion. Could be wrong.

Everyone just watch matches w/Festus/Luke Gallows/Doc Gallows right now. Start w/Festus vs Vladimir Koslov 8/15/08. Top ten match for me in 2008. Ultra wonderful.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

BY JOE~! It does exist. Looking at the date, I realized why I didn't remember it and haven't seen it. I generally try to avoid that time period as much as possible.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I was a huge Kozlov fan in 2008/09. Loved the Regal/Kozlov/Zeke alliance.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

I just watched two five star matches Benoit vs. HBK vs. HHH at Mania XX= Best triple threat match ever but a little creepy because of Benoit. I also watched Punk vs. Cena at MiTB 2011= The best match of the so called 'PG Era' and of John Cena's career also very sad match seeing Punk who has sadly left WWE . I think Cena vs. Punk at MiTB '11 is a better match then the triple threat at WM 20 because better crowd.

Also first post on Wrestling Forum. Yeah PARTY TIME! :cheer

EDIT: Festus vs. Vladimir Kozlov on Smackdown that match is gooooood


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I don't think I could have one over the other regarding those two matches.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Accidentally d/l'ed Austin/HBK vs. Bulldog/Owen instead of the Austin/Dude Love version. Somehow I doubt I'll regret this.

That Austin/Bret streetfight, if it's the 5 minuteish match where Bret fucks up his wrist and ankle is one of my favorite matches ever.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> I don't think I could have one over the other regarding those two matches.


Well I both think there five star matches I just think Cena vs. Punk had more crowd interaction that made it such a amazing match where the Triple Threat at Mania the crowd was a little dead until later in the match.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

The action was a lot crisper in the WMXX match, so that balances the two out for me as blunt equals.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> The action was a lot crisper in the WMXX match, so that balances the two out for me as blunt equals.


Agreed my Aussie bro but the one thing that kinda annoys me is the overused Crippler Crossface I mean it was used like 6 times and it makes the submission look like a joke. I just wanna to get that out there because the Crossface sometimes is just too used in a match and it really get annoying. Kinda like Benoit vs. RVD Summerslam 2002 (The match was awesome other then the overused Crossface **** match)


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Just watched Mankind/HBK as a break from tv stuff. That match is seriously amazing. More amazing is it happened in 1996. A shame for the ending. ****3/4 for that masterpiece.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Obviously I love all the matches people have been posting in here, but here are 3 matches I watched recently and absolutely loved:

Jannetty vs Doink Raw 1993
Jannetty vs Michaels Raw July 1993
Jannetty vs Angle SD 2005


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

bigbuxxx said:


> Just watched Mankind/HBK as a break from tv stuff. That match is seriously amazing. More amazing is it happened in 1996. A shame for the ending. ****3/4 for that masterpiece.


Well if you do want more Mankind vs. HBK they did have that match in 1997 on Raw where DX debuted so you know find that match maybe. I cant post it because of the ten post rule before you can post links.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Obviously I love all the matches people have been posting in here, but here are 3 matches I watched recently and absolutely loved:
> 
> Jannetty vs Doink Raw 1993
> Jannetty vs Michaels Raw July 1993
> Jannetty vs Angle SD 2005


What did you think of my Inoki/Tatsumi review?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

bigbuxxx said:


> Just watched Mankind/HBK as a break from tv stuff. That match is seriously amazing. *More amazing is it happened in 1996.*


Huh?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Mind Games 1996. Probably felt it to be ahead of its time or that it doesn't feel that it happened so long ago.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've never really understood ''ahead of its time''. Sounds like it implies wrestling gets better as time goes on, which pretty obviously isn't true. Or, it could mean that it feels ahead of its time, but that doesn't really mean its good. Two dudes in the 80s could have worked a shitty as fuck KENTA/Marufuji match, so ahead of its time would be an insult in that case. Even if its something I did think made sense, I dunno how it really applies to Michaels/Mankind. I've always thought it feels like a WWF 90s match. Kind of got that just-barely-but-not-really-a-gimmick-match thing going with it, happening right before the start of the Attitude Era.

I'm kind of just babbling right now and out of tire/sickness am not entirely positive what I just wrote in the above paragraph, but I think I'm probably making even juuuuuust a sliver of sense.  ****1/2


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I've never really understood ''ahead of its time''. Sounds like it implies wrestling gets better as time goes on, which pretty obviously isn't true. Or, it could mean that it feels ahead of its time, but that doesn't really mean its good. Two dudes in the 80s could have worked a shitty as fuck KENTA/Marufuji match, so ahead of its time would be an insult in that case. Even if its something I did think made sense, I dunno how it really applies to Michaels/Mankind. I've always thought it feels like a WWF 90s match. Kind of got that just-barely-but-not-really-a-gimmick-match thing going with it, happening right before the start of the Attitude Era.
> 
> I'm kind of just babbling right now and out of tire/sickness am not entirely positive what I just wrote in the above paragraph, but I think I'm probably making even juuuuuust a sliver of sense.  ****1/2



I've always taken it to mean, when a match like Steamboat/Savage WM 3 takes place. Dudes in WWF were not wrestling that style of match with that amount of false finishes. That match is what a lot of future wrestlers looked to as the style they would like to use if they were to become wrestlers. Similar deal with Bret vs Perfect at SS 1991. When something is "ahead of it's time", for me I take it as something being revolutionary, and that people in the future would try to emulate it. For what it's worth, I don't think Mankind/HBK qualifies as "ahead of it's time". I really suck with words but I think you get the gist of what I'm saying. I don't take it as meaning that wrestling gets better with time, I take it as meaning that future wrestlers would emulate the style of said match.

Don't look now, Austin just announced the guest for next weeks podcast. Unless Eddie Guerrero or Chris Benoit resurrected from the dead, this is the single greatest guest Austin could have gotten. That's right, BIG VAN FUCKING VADER IS GONNA BE ON THE STEVE AUSTIN SHOW THIS TUESDAY AND THURSDAY! Whew boy.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

First came across the term regarding Dynamite Kid and the Rey/Psicosis matches. I'd always assumed those viewers felt the moves were more contemporary and out of the norm for what you were prone to see in those years. Innovative is probably a better word, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

idk Jheri but I saw you slam the style of a KENTA/Marufuji match, so I agree.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> First came across the term regarding Dynamite Kid and the Rey/Psicosis matches. I'd always assumed those viewers felt the moves were more contemporary and out of the norm for what you were prone to see in those years. Innovative is probably a better word, though.



Yea I've never actually seen them, but I always hear "ahead of it's time" when people describe those Dynamite Kid/Tiger Mask matches in 1981-83. I always have wondered if there was real substance to the hype of those matches, as Foley lists it as one of his 10 favorite matches. I should make a point of watching them some day. 

I think you hit the nail on the head, innovative is a way better word to describe it. Rey Mysterio was not "ahead of his time" because I SERIOUSLY doubt anyone will ever catch up to what Rey did. He was a master innovator though, he's probably invented more moves and sequences than any other active wrestler. He's the Michael Jordan of the Lucha style, everything he did he did higher and just BETTER looking than his contemporaries. That's how Eddie describes him when they sat down and did commentary for the HH 1997 match.

In that same regard, I guess Benoit and Guerrero were innovators of the Cruiserweight/junior heavyweight style. Then again, I suppose every great wrestler is an innovator because I don't see how anyone can become great just stealing everyone else's shit. You gotta be original to be great.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> Accidentally d/l'ed Austin/HBK vs. Bulldog/Owen instead of the Austin/Dude Love version. Somehow I doubt I'll regret this.
> 
> That Austin/Bret streetfight, if it's the 5 minuteish match where Bret fucks up his wrist and ankle is one of my favorite matches ever.


I actually think that's the match I may have been trying to recommend. I realized both the tag matches are on Austin's Legacy of Stone Cold set, but I don't remember which one is better.  Oh well.

EDIT: Yeah the one with HBK is definitely the better of the two. I don't think the one with Dude Love was anything special looking back on my reviews.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Shawn/Mankind or Brock/Cena?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Shawn/Mankind by a smidgeon. I have Brock/Cena at **** 1/2 and HBK/Mankind at a lower level **** 3/4. Brock/Cena will have a bigger lasting impression on me though. I'll never forget how shocked I was watching that live. You don't see that shit in WWE 2012.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Shawn/Mankind or Brock/Cena?



I have Shawn/Mankind at ***** and a top 10 match in WWE history, Brock/Cena is ****3/4 and a top 25 match for sure. Both have bad finishes, but Brock/Cena's is bad enough that I had to drop 1/4*. Otherwise, I really can't complain about a single aspect of either.

The coolest thing about that MindGames match was that the world got to see just how great an athlete Foley was. He went full bore for damn near 30 minutes with one of the best in the world, Michaels, and gave what I consider to be Michaels his second best match of his entire career (behind HiaC vs Taker). I think MindGames is Foleys magnum opus, a perfect wrestling match.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Just about to finish Jericho's 2002. Only two RAWs left.

Year was way worse than 2001 for him.



Spoiler: Jericho's PPV matches from best to worst



vs. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Booker T vs. Kane vs. Rob Van Dam (WWE Survivor Series, 17.11.02, Elimination Chamber, WWE World Heavyweight Championship)
vs. The Rock (WWF Royal Rumble, 20.01.02, Singles, WWF Undisputed Title) 
vs. Rob Van Dam (WWE King of the Ring, 23.06.02, Singles) 
& Christian vs. Booker T & Goldust vs. Lance Storm & William Regal & Bubba Ray Dudley & D-Von Dudley (WWE Armageddon, 15.12.02, Fatal Four-way Elimination Tag) 
& Christian vs. Booker T & Goldust (WWE No Mercy, 20.10.02, Tag Team, World Tag Team Titles) 
vs. Triple H (WWE Judgment Day, 19.05.02, Singles, Hell in a Cell) 
vs. Ric Flair (WWE SummerSlam, 25.08.02, Singles) 
vs. Ric Flair (Unforgiven, 22.09.02, Singles, WWE Intercontinental Championship)
vs. Steve Austin (WWF No Way Out, 17.02.02, Singles, WWF Undisputed Title) 
vs. John Cena (WWE Vengeance, 21.07.02, Singles) 
vs. Triple H (WWF Wrestlemania, 17.03.02, Singles, WWF Undisputed Title)



TV matches were mostly average, imo. I think I gave TLC IV (?) the highest rating out of the non-PPV matches.

I have absolutely no idea about his 2003 besides the WM match against HBK.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

For TV matches, there are so many great stuff throughout 2002-2006 that I could go on all day. Most of the classics have already been mentioned but I don't think I saw the following mentioned anywhere:

Orton vs Benoit (Raw 2004, Smackdown 13/1/2006)
Benoit vs Edge (Smackdown 2007, Raw after WM21)
Orton vs RVD (Raw 12/1/2004)
Jericho vs Edge (Smackdown 2002 inside steel cage - just watched a couple of days ago and is so much better than Extreme Rules '10)
HHH vs Shelton (Raw 2004)
Undertaker vs JBL (Smackdown 2005 x2)
Angle vs Eddie (SD in 2005)
Cena vs Edge (Raw 2006 inside steel cage)
Orton vs Edge (Raw in 2004 x3)



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Edge/Orton from 4/30/07 (not sure if this one will hold up though)


It should. I just watched it yesterday and it's every bit as good as I remember it being on my other watches. Love Orton working as the babyface and he does an excellent job in that role. Crowd automatically gets behind him and his selling from the announce table bump to getting opened up by the turnbuckle near the end did the work.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I'm in the mood to watch some epic WrestleMania matches tonight. And here's some food for all of ya: Andre/Hogan is the Top 10 WM match, while Savage/Steamboat dropped out of the elite list. Andre/Hogan is simply one of the greatest stories ever told inside the squared circle. Fuck everyone who disagrees.



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Shawn/Mankind or Brock/Cena?


Shawn/Mankind, easily.



Yeah1993 said:


> I've never really understood ''ahead of its time''. Sounds like it implies wrestling gets better as time goes on, which pretty obviously isn't true.


I hate that phrase too. Goddamn people and their godawful need to label everything.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Rob Van Dam vs Eddie Guerrero (Raw 05.27.2002) (Ladder Match)*

Unedited: Includes the 'fan run in'.

x1w2wwi


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Has anybody mentioned Bret/123 and Owen & Bulldog/Shawn & Austin for TV match top stuff?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> I'm in the mood to watch some epic WrestleMania matches tonight. And here's some food for all of ya: Andre/Hogan is the Top 10 WM match, while Savage/Steamboat dropped out of the elite list. Andre/Hogan is simply one of the greatest stories ever told inside the squared circle. Fuck everyone who disagrees.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One of these days I'd love to see your own personal top 20 or so WM matches list. You have some oddball ones up there. Not hating on it or anything, if you dig Hogan/Andre more power to you, brother. I do share your love for Vince/Hogan though.



The Hitman said:


> *Rob Van Dam vs Eddie Guerrero (Raw 05.27.2002) (Ladder Match)*
> 
> Unedited: Includes the 'fan run in'.
> 
> x1w2wwi



My personal 3rd favorite singles ladder match ever (behind only Benoit/Jericho and Sheamus/JoMo). WWE listed it as one of the 10 greatest ladder matches ever on their Countdown list, I think it made number 7 or something, Eddie fucking KILLS that fan with that 1 punch though, and good for him that fan deserved to have his ass handed to him for doing some dumb shit like that. A real wrestling fan wouldn't have wanted to leave that building for anything in the world with Eddie and RVD tearing it up like they were.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Chismo said:


> I hate that phrase too. Goddamn people and their godawful need to label everything.


Don't look at me :side::side:. I was more implying that I'm surprised it's still so entertaining since it was so long ago.



ATF said:


> Has anybody mentioned Bret/123 and Owen & Bulldog/Shawn & Austin for TV match top stuff?


I mentioned the latter and somebody else did like 3 posts before yours. The former was mentioned a couple times.

I would definitely take Mankind/Shawn over Cena/Lesnar. Don't think it's really close.

On to Foley/Funk from RAW. Never seen this before and heard so much about it.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Does anybody have the link to Cena/Punk @ NOC 2012 in HD? I can and have watched it on the Network, but I'd like to download it so I always have it on my drive.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Kind of disappointed in the Foley/Funk match. It was entertaining as hell but it was a Foley squash which I understand was kind of the point of the match. I just love me some Funk flailing away and fucking shit up. Foley must have needed a few stitched on top of the head after this one. SCSA GOAT announcer.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Shawn/Mankind or Brock/Cena?


HBK/Manking at ****3/4
Lesnar/Cena ***1/2 , never liked the match as much as others did...I would have given it **** if it would have ended with Lesnar beating Cena clean after dominating him for 25min, but it was just so weird, Cena barely did 5 moves the entire match


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I've never seen a rating drop so much just because of an ending... I can barely understand people dropping it 1/4*, let alone one and half frickin' shurikens.

Edit: For some reason I can't muster up the courage to start Backlash 2008 for my 08 project, the card looks okay, I just for some reason can't do it. Is it a bad/good show in general? Ratings for the main event, pls.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Robbie said:


> I've never seen a rating drop so much just because of an ending... I can barely understand people dropping it 1/4*, let alone one and half frickin' shurikens.
> 
> Edit: For some reason I can't muster up the courage to start Backlash 2008 for my 08 project, the card looks okay, I just for some reason can't do it. Is it a bad/good show in general? Ratings for the main event, pls.


Well, the finish is the last thing you see in a match. If you eat the most delicious chocolate sundae ever only to find a turd staring at you when you get to the bottom of the bowl, well wouldn't that make you change your opinion slightly of said sundae? Everything that happened for the first 20+ minutes of that ER match was a delicious sundae, Cena coming back out of nowhere and winning with like 2 moves is the giant turd. Not enough of a turd for me to drop my opinion that much, I still think it's an all time classic, but enough for me to not consider it the perfect match.

For it to be perfect, they should have done everything the exact same, only after Cena hits Brock with the AA, when he leans over to go for the pin, Brock grabs his arm, locks the Kimura in, and kayfabe breaks Cena's arm, causing Cena to black out and the ref stops the match. That keeps Cena from tapping and allows him to keep his "Never give up!" Bs going, while keeping Brock as strong as ever and also setting up for a future rematch down the road. They do that finish, I would say it's a perfect, ***** match.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Robbie said:


> Edit: For some reason I can't muster up the courage to start Backlash 2008 for my 08 project, the card looks okay, I just for some reason can't do it.


This is why I don't look at the cards before I start my WCW ppvs  .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Robbie said:


> Edit: For some reason I can't muster up the courage to start Backlash 2008 for my 08 project, the card looks okay, I just for some reason can't do it. Is it a bad/good show in general? Ratings for the main event, pls.


I don't know about the whole card but I've seen 3 matches from that show. Orton/JBL/Cena/HHH, Edge/Taker & HBK/Batista - all three are very good imo.

ME - ★★★¾, Edge/Taker - ★★★½ and Batista/HBK - ★★★¾

Also heard that Khali/Big Show is not as bad as it sounds on paper but I can't comment on that.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> I don't know about the whole card but I've seen 3 matches from that show. Orton/JBL/Cena/HHH, Edge/Taker & HBK/Batista - all three are very good imo.
> 
> ME - ★★★¾, Edge/Taker - ★★★½ and Batista/HBK - ★★★¾
> 
> *Also heard that Khali/Big Show is not as bad as it sounds on paper but I can't comment on that.*


Khali does a crossface in that match, no doubt a tribute to the man he models his in-ring style after.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Khali doesn't just pay tribute to said model, he totally outshines him AND everybody else in history.

:troll


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Shawn/Mankind or Brock/Cena?


not shawn/mankind


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> One of these days I'd love to see your own personal top 20 or so WM matches list. You have some oddball ones up there. Not hating on it or anything, if you dig Hogan/Andre more power to you, brother. I do share your love for Vince/Hogan though.


Dunno about 20, but here's my Top 10:

Andre/Hogan
Warrior/Hogan
Warrior/Savage or Savage/Flair, can't decide at the moment
Bret/Owen
HBK/Ramon
Austin/Rock II
Rock/Hogan
Vince/Hogan
Benoit/HBK/HHH
HBK/Angle


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Coolquip said:


> Khali does a crossface in that match, no doubt a tribute to the man he models his in-ring style after.


Ha. Funny you say that because a while back I came across a house show match of Khali vs Cena that was uploaded a week before the tragedy and he is using the Crossface in that video.

Now it all makes sense. He ordered the murders so he can claim the move for himself. He even eliminated Benoit in the Royal Rumble that year - a prelude of things to come.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

How was Rey/Cena circa 2011? It was the Raw on which Rey won the title only for Cena to push him into defending it, almost immediately, and beat him for it. Memory of watching it live seems more focused on Cena having to take Rey's spotlight (I was rather anti-Cena at that stage) than being able to enjoy that match. Still, it got time, and it _should_ have been good.






The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Yea I've never actually seen them, but I always hear "ahead of it's time" when people describe those Dynamite Kid/Tiger Mask matches in 1981-83. I always have wondered if there was real substance to the hype of those matches, as Foley lists it as one of his 10 favorite matches. I should make a point of watching them some day.


They're decent. IIRC there's one that's quite a bit better than the others, but it isn't so much required viewing as some would like to see it. Falls into the "Meltzer pimped the shit out of it, so it's good" category more than it standing as a classic in its own right.



> I think you hit the nail on the head, innovative is a way better word to describe it. Rey Mysterio was not "ahead of his time" because I SERIOUSLY doubt anyone will ever catch up to what Rey did. He was a master innovator though, he's probably invented more moves and sequences than any other active wrestler. He's the Michael Jordan of the Lucha style, everything he did he did higher and just BETTER looking than his contemporaries. That's how Eddie describes him when they sat down and did commentary for the HH 1997 match.


I really need to hear Eddy do commentary on that match. Hell, I really need to rewatch that match. Pretty much near the peak of WCW's golden outputs.



> In that same regard, I guess Benoit and Guerrero were innovators of the Cruiserweight/junior heavyweight style. Then again, I suppose every great wrestler is an innovator because I don't see how anyone can become great just stealing everyone else's shit. You gotta be original to be great.


I think that's somewhat fair an assumption, in North America, anyway. I definitely see adapted (or, even, taken) spots from Panther/Solar, amongst others, but they throw them out at a much quicker pacing that it still feels fresh.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I know nothing of wrestling in Mexico but it seems like Japan and America just trade. America steals the moves and style of match while Japan steals the gimmicks.


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

Rah said:


> How was Rey/Cena circa 2011? It was the Raw on which Rey won the title only for Cena to push him into defending it, almost immediately, and beat him for it. Memory of watching it live seems more focused on Cena having to take Rey's spotlight (I was rather anti-Cena at that stage) than being able to enjoy that match. Still, it got time, and it _should_ have been good.


I just watched that match recently, and I thought it was good.

***1/4 to ***1/2 rating from me.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Its phenomenal Rah, top 10 Cena match TV MOTY for 2011


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rah said:


> How was Rey/Cena circa 2011? It was the Raw on which Rey won the title only for Cena to push him into defending it, almost immediately, and beat him for it. Memory of watching it live seems more focused on Cena having to take Rey's spotlight (I was rather anti-Cena at that stage) than being able to enjoy that match. Still, it got time, and it _should_ have been good.


It's excellent. Just one thing, they'd never make Cena look so flat out heelish. He didn't push Rey into it, HHH cut a promo after Rey's victory saying that Cena has his title rematch and it'll be the main event so they went with it.

Instead of rushing Punk back, they should've made Rey vs Cena for the belt at SummerSlam. I bet it would've been even better if they had wrestled a 20 minute match on PPV.


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

I agree, Cena/Rey at SummerSlam would have been very good & it should have been done that way. Give Rey a proper little reign, have Punk be gone longer to help the story along better & give Cena/Rey a good long match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Cena/Rey is easily a top 10 TV MOTY 2011. ***3/4

Does anyone also remember the tornado tag from that year? Another TV MOTY.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Which was better?

PUNK/ROCK I @ Royal Rumble
PUNK/ROCK II @ Elimination Chamber


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Rah said:


> How was Rey/Cena circa 2011? It was the Raw on which Rey won the title only for Cena to push him into defending it, almost immediately, and beat him for it. Memory of watching it live seems more focused on Cena having to take Rey's spotlight (I was rather anti-Cena at that stage) than being able to enjoy that match. Still, it got time, and it _should_ have been good.


Its REALLY good, though it's probably the best match I've seen where one guy is just having a horrible night. Cena is soooo Goddamn sloppy in this match. He had a really bad night, but Rey turned back the clock in what may have been his last great performance. Definitely worth a watch. ****


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> It's excellent. Just one thing, they'd never make Cena look so flat out heelish. He didn't push Rey into it, HHH cut a promo after Rey's victory saying that Cena has his title rematch and it'll be the main event so they went with it.
> 
> Instead of rushing Punk back, they should've made Rey vs Cena for the belt at SummerSlam. I bet it would've been even better if they had wrestled a 20 minute match on PPV.



Oh abso-fucking-lutely, I love that Raw match but yea, I definitely think they should have gone with Rey vs Cena for the WWE title at SS. I think that would garner plenty of interest, ESPECIALLY if they had Cena go in with the title, with Rey getting his big chance to be the champ. The longer they keep Punk on the sidelines, the better it would have been for his eventual return. I know it was cool seeing Cena/Rock, but it would have been even cooler to have Punk vs Cena as the Main event of WM 28 for the undisputed WWE championship. If they hadn't done that "year long rivalry" between Rock and Cena in 2011-2012, they could have just saved that match for WM 29. Oh well.

Posey I got side tracked, all I wanted to say was Rey/Cena on Raw in 2011 is absolutely fabulous Rah you should definitely check it out.

If you want to hear Eddie and Rey do commentary for their HH 97 match, you gotta get the "Cheating Death, Stealing Life" set WWE released for Eddie back in 2004. The documentary absolutely sucks though. It does have some good matches, RVD/Eddie Ladder Match, Benoit/Eddie Vengeance, HH 97, Brock/Eddie, Jericho/Eddie FB 97, and Gringos Locos vs Hijo del Santo and Octagon, etc.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Indeed, Rey/Cena is great, but we should have expected that, I suppose. Rey/Miz deserves equal credit, however. One of Miz's best matches, if not best.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Rey/Orton NWO and the SD matches are great too.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Just saw the wwe networks top 10 ladder match countdown and didn't have Jericho/Benoit or the first MITB


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Just saw the wwe networks top 10 ladder match countdown and didn't have Jericho/Benoit or the first MITB


Geee, I wonder why. :costanza


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Chismo said:


> Geee, I wonder why. :costanza




Benoit is featured on the network so it legit shocks me.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Benoit is featured on the network so it legit shocks me.


Correction Benoit is on the network, WWE still won't feature him. Hell, they don't even say his name in the descriptions to the PPVs he main evented.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Aye Chismo, you still rate WM27 Taker/Trips match highly? Looking through the older threads is fun.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Of course. ****1/2, IIRC, which is crazy for some, I reckon. I kind of get it why they worked that type of structure, and I dug it. The rematch sucks gaping asshole, though. WM 27 is Taker's last true classic.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah, that shouldn't surprise you. They won't say his name unless it was said on commentary. The blurb on WM XX said "Triple H defends his World title." :lmao The blurb for Backlash 2004 says "Triple H and HBK compete in a triple threat match for the World Championship" :lmao The blurb for Bad Blood says "Kane looks to capture the World Heavyweight Championship." The main event of Summerslam 2004 isn't even mentioned in the blurb. You get the picture.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Of course. ****1/2, IIRC, which is crazy for some, I reckon. I kind of get it why they worked that type of structure, and I dug it. The rematch sucks gaping asshole, though. WM 29 is Taker's last true classic.


Fixed .

WM 27 is a pile of shit, WM 28 is better but still not great. WM 17>>>>>>WM 27 & 28 for the Trips/Hunter matches.


Just watched Mankind/Owen Raw. What a tremendous short sprint this is. About 7 minutes long total, but they cram tons of goodness into those 7 minutes. The backslide-DDT counter they work is one of the smoothest DDT counters I've ever seen. If Owen had Bret's drive to be great, and had gotten a better push so he was working with top guys more often, I have a feeling people would be singing his praises as one of the all time greats a lot more. He was an ace on the mat, go watch his WoS stuff sometime if you don't believe me, and he could do all the springboard high flying type moves too. Not to mention he was awesome cutting promos and talking, I mean he REALLY could get people to hate him, while also being wildly entertaining. Owen at his best could hang with ANYBODY in wrestling. I'm feeling an Owen Hart binge for tonight. I think I'll watch his Action Zone match with Bret next.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Owen > Bret

Watch Owen/123 kid KOTR 1994, its a :mark: sprint


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

On par with Kid/Bret, except like 13 minutes shorter. Not proving a point there. It's a shame he didn't get the opportunities that Bret got. I can't recall that many great Owen matches. 

edit: I should amend that to "many great Owen matches in comparison to Bret"


----------



## yeahbaby! (Jan 27, 2014)

Speaking of Owen, always loved his colour commentary on KOR96. His heel commentary is brilliant all night long.

To say he was better than Bret is a stretch imo.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I understand not including Benoit/Jericho but there's absolutely no reason why they couldn't have had the first MITB in there. Benoit was one out of six and it's not like he won the match so that they have to "avoid" it. They wouldn't need to talk about him when talking about the match and they wouldn't even have to show him too much during the highlights since he was outside the ring for some of the more memorable stuff such as Shelton's ladder T-Bone and the running clothesline on Jericho.

Hopefully they change that up and stop acting like he isn't there when they go as far as including him unedited. They already made a small bit of progress when mentioning him in the description for ECW #92 episode.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

He definitely got the charisma of the two so I can see how people would want to watch Owen a lot more than Bret.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

NAITCH said:


> Owen > Bret
> 
> Watch Owen/123 kid KOTR 1994, its a :mark: sprint



Whoa, settle down there bud, I don't think I'd go THAT far 

Someone mentioned Owens commentary, that's such a great point. Watch that Michaels/Davey Boy match from KotR 1996. The match itself is GREAT, but man Owen on commentary totally steals the show. He ranks right up there with Austin and the Rock as the single greatest guest commentators ever. It's really just priceless stuff.

I actually saw that Owen/Kid match pop up when I was searching out new Owen stuff, I'll definitely give it a watch.

This Bret/Owen Action Zone match though....wow. I had totally forgotten how good this is. Not quite as good as WM 10, but that's one of the greatest matches of all time so it's no slight to say that. Owen works in control for long portions and he is beyond excellent. I'd even go so far as to say that Owen out worked Bret in this one, being that the match was at it's best when Owen was doing his thing and putting a beating on Bret, which to Bret's credit he sold like a million bucks. Owen targets the leg and we see an awesome limb work over segment with Bret selling it every step of the way. This is a fast paced, action packed classic that really needs to be seen by everyone, you can't help but be REALLY impressed with Owen afterwards. 

Final rating for Bret/Owen AZ: ****1/2.......yea, it's really THAT good. Not an overrate at all


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Watched Cena/Shawn from RAW in London. Match was great. A solid ****1/2. Cena is the fucking anticharisma in this match. Some of the shit he pulled was so cringeworthy and it makes me glad to see that he's actually improved in the ring with his facial reactions. Him smiling throughout the first ten minutes just made me want to turn it off. Him saying "i almost got you" by doing his hand gesture three times made me want to turn it off. His awful selling of the arm made me sad for wrestling. Seriously who hurts there arm one move but then catches there opponent jumping over the ropes onto them on the floor the very next move? Also, working over the left arm when your opponent is right handed is the nut low, it's the laziest booking of a match ever.

Despite all that garbage I give this ****1/2 because I love slow burn matches. Loved the headlocks from Cena in the beginning. Loved them starting to really get it on after they had worn themselves down to shit already. I was shocked at the finish because I thought this was a 60 minute draw despite seeing it twice before.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Was that raw in England the day after WM 23? Shocked that they'd travel that far and wasn't it tapped ?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

It was on the go home to Backlash.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watched a couple docs on the Network recently. Batista's _I Walk Alone_ was honestly really good despite me never being a big Batista fan. Very insightful to look into all the stuff he's gone through in his life prior to becoming a star well into his 30s. Also watched _Big Show: A Giant's World_. Hearing about his childhood was cool and I never knew he was sent down to OVW, but man this was way too short. The tidbit about his dad dying REALLY shocked me. Who comes up with a storyline about a death in the family and the whole family is ok with it years after it actually happened? Legit surprising.



Chismo said:


> Of course. ****1/2, IIRC, which is crazy for some, I reckon. I kind of get it why they worked that type of structure, and I dug it. The rematch sucks gaping asshole, though. WM 27 is Taker's last true classic.


No love for Taker/Punk???


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I have two questions in regards to John Cena. One answerable and the other rhetorical. My rhetorical question being why the hell does Cena keep going to the hurricarana? I don't understand because Cena's consistently awful execution of said move completely neutralizes any aesthetically pleasing value the move usually has; size to agility ratio is nor should ever be a point of emphasis to Cena's character (save that for the Luke Harpers/younger Samoa Joes of the world); not to mention Cena's crap form destroys the chance to utilize the move as a comeback device/momentum switch or transition. The only time Cena hits it decently is if Cena's opponent is skilled/athletic enough to take a giant forward bump to get a transition out of it. Still, Cena seems to bust this out frequently in his broadways and I don't get it 

My answerable question is when was the last time Cena busted out his attempt at emerald flowison? Might have been recently but my memory escapes me. Cena may not have the angle mastery of Misawa when using the move and it doesn't have the same effect in my opinion without the high leg kick Misawa used to get that extra power, but Cena usually breaks it out and hits the move pretty clean. Not to mention, mechanically the move makes sense for Cena to use. I think he should use this more often.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ryback/Henry told a similar story to Andre/Hogan, but executed it far better. Kill me, Chismo. But not before I talk about Kiyoshi Tamura.






Go watch the sequence three minutes into this video that lasts for 30 seconds. GOAT mat wrestling exhibition.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Their match from 5/27/96 is even better. Opening mat work might not be quiiiite as mind-fucking though, I don't really remember.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Some thoughts on the DX/Legacy encounters?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Their Summerslam match rules. ***3/4-****. I hate the other two bouts.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Of course. ****1/2, IIRC, which is crazy for some, I reckon. I kind of get it why they worked that type of structure, and I dug it. The rematch sucks gaping asshole, though. WM 27 is Taker's last true classic.


I agree with all of this, except I loved Taker/Punk. I'd put that up there as one of Punk's two greatest performances ever (Noc '12 vs. Cena being the other one). And while we're on the Punk/Cena subject, yeah, I prefer Noc over MITB. Every time I watch MITB, it goes down for me. Drags like hell. I'm sure I'd be more invested in it if I was watching in real-time, and felt an emotional investment. 




WrestlingOracle said:


> I have two questions in regards to John Cena. One answerable and the other rhetorical. My rhetorical question being why the hell does Cena keep going to the hurricarana? I don't understand because Cena's consistently awful execution of said move completely neutralizes any aesthetically pleasing value the move usually has; size to agility ratio is nor should ever be a point of emphasis to Cena's character (save that for the Luke Harpers/younger Samoa Joes of the world); not to mention Cena's crap form destroys the chance to utilize the move as a comeback device/momentum switch or transition. The only time Cena hits it decently is if Cena's opponent is skilled/athletic enough to take a giant forward bump to get a transition out of it. Still, Cena seems to bust this out frequently in his broadways and I don't get it


Better question is why his STF still looks piss poor half the time. It's such an easily adjustable thing. With the way that the road agents get on young talent, and with the way that they're supposedly burying Dolph for not listening to them....why do they not get on Cena for this? Is he that untouchable?

Also, Chismo, shockingly, I kind of liked Hogan/Andre when I recently rewatched it. Despised it as a child, but it's not as bad as everyone says, or as bad as I used to think it was.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

LilOlMe said:


> I agree with all of this, except I loved Taker/Punk. I'd put that up there as one of Punk's two greatest performances ever (Noc '12 vs. Cena being the other one). And while we're on the Punk/Cena subject, yeah, I prefer Noc over MITB. Every time I watch MITB, it goes down for me. Drags like hell. I'm sure I'd be more invested in it if I was watching in real-time, and felt an emotional investment.


I dont know maybe NoC had a better pure wrestling match or the Raw match from 2013 but I like the MiTB match just because it had a better in-ring story and the atmopsphere is amazing IDK but we can agree on one thing CM Punk vs. John Cena have awesome chemistry in the ring and on the mic :clap:clap


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Am I the only one who thinks he looks like Shinya Hashimoto?


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

in that pic? Yes. Now, no.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Decided to go back and watch some old matches that I remember pretty well but haven't seen in a long time.

*Wrestlemania X7 Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle* ****1/2*
I have never cared much for their matches. I am in no way saying that they're bad matches (even though I feel that their 2003 Royal Rumble match is HEAVILY overrated and nothing special), but they just aren't something I can truly get into. One of my biggest pet peeves in regards to their matches was matches where I knew what I was going to get. Even as a kid watching wrestling for only my second year (I started watching in 2000), when I saw this match at Wrestlemania I knew what it was going to turn out to be (which is kind of sad when you think it's real at the time). It was two guys trying to prove who the better mat wrestler was, and then it was completely non existent for the rest of the match apart from one or two moments.

Which is why I could never get into their matches. Which is unfortunate. Because from a storytelling standpoint, the match is great. It's much better than the star rating I'm giving them. The story they told made a lot of sense. However, when it comes to personal taste, I can't stand matches like this. For me, the beginning of a match is its most important component. And I just can't stand it when a match makes a sudden change like this. One of the things I loved about the Lesnar/Angle matches is that they kept that technical aspect all through out the match and used it to their advantage to spring up counters and moments you weren't going to expect, which is one of my favorite aspects of Pro Wrestling.

So again, they didn't do much wrong, it was a great match, but from a taste standpoint, I can't give it anymore than three and a half stars. I just can't.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Some thoughts on the DX/Legacy encounters?


I've seen 2 out of 3 to this point. Their Summerslam match is excellent tag team wrestling at *** 3/4. I LOVE their Submissions Count Anywhere match from Breaking Point. It's just a whole lotta fun along with Legacy taking out DX systematically one by one. **** for that one. Yet to see Hell in a Cell but there's a good chance I'll enjoy it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

TheGMofGods said:


> Decided to go back and watch some old matches that I remember pretty well but haven't seen in a long time.
> 
> *Wrestlemania X7 Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle* ****1/2*
> I have never cared much for their matches. I am in no way saying that they're bad matches (even though I feel that their 2003 Royal Rumble match is HEAVILY overrated and nothing special), but they just aren't something I can truly get into. One of my biggest pet peeves in regards to their matches was matches where I knew what I was going to get. Even as a kid watching wrestling for only my second year (I started watching in 2000), when I saw this match at Wrestlemania I knew what it was going to turn out to be (which is kind of sad when you think it's real at the time). It was two guys trying to prove who the better mat wrestler was, and then it was completely non existent for the rest of the match apart from one or two moments.
> ...


Have it at the same rating than you, for the exact same reasons. The match did eventually turn pretty damn movesy eventually, but I loved the story within (two guys outwrestling each other, and when Angle couldn't get it done, he just turned things into a big time FIGHT), and stuff like the atmosphere was pretty great too. Much better than the RR 2003 match is a blast to watch, but I did think they went kinda overkill with what they did, but still, it entertained me and I couldn't really give it a bad rating (have it at *** or ***1/4 myself) even if I wanted.

However, their Backlash '01 match is PERFECTION for what it was. Judgment Day 2oo3f is a major guilty pleasure of mine since everybody hates it


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> Watched Cena/Shawn from RAW in London. Match was great. A solid ****1/2. Cena is the fucking anticharisma in this match. Some of the shit he pulled was so cringeworthy and it makes me glad to see that he's actually improved in the ring with his facial reactions. Him smiling throughout the first ten minutes just made me want to turn it off. Him saying "i almost got you" by doing his hand gesture three times made me want to turn it off. His awful selling of the arm made me sad for wrestling. Seriously who hurts there arm one move but then catches there opponent jumping over the ropes onto them on the floor the very next move? *Also, working over the left arm when your opponent is right handed is the nut low*, it's the laziest booking of a match ever.


Irrational Cena criticism incoming...

Seriously, unless you're in Mexico, _everybody_ works the left side - that's what you do. I don't care for Cena particularly, nor that match, but everyone from your boy Okada and Nakamura to Owen and Bret work the left; that's wrestling, baby!


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

And wrestling is all the more stupid for it.

It's rather amazing how the general rule* dictates that limbwork only happens to the left side, yet you still get some wrestlers who sell the wrong arm or leg.



*exceptions do happen, especially when the narrative is against a Japanese opponent using the lariat


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Rah said:


> And wrestling is all the more stupid for it.
> 
> It's rather amazing how the general rule* dictates that limbwork only happens to the left side, yet you still get some wrestlers who sell the wrong arm or leg.
> 
> ...


Guys usually only work on left side? Never really noticed that


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Guys usually only work on left side? Never really noticed that



Yea I never noticed it either, the first time I heard it was when I read Jericho's book back in 2008 and he mentions that in Mexico you always work right and everywhere else works left so he had to adapt when he came over here. There's also certain things like always using you opponents left arm to whip into the ropes, always clotheslining with your right arm, and a couple other odds and ends. Generally, it's to keep guys from running into each other in the ring, you always know which side a guy is gonna come from.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Rah said:


> And wrestling is all the more stupid for it.


Not really. There's the historical aspect that legit grapplers/shooters/fighters didn't want guys back in the day to hurt their "good" side (most are right-handed), and the practicality of it: guys always (should) know what side to sell/work, streamlines the process (guys working unfamiliar opponents), etc.

As you can tell by the replies, most people don't even notice it (even the smarks!). May as well complain about Irish Whips and Back Body Drops.



> It's rather amazing how the general rule* dictates that limbwork only happens to the left side, yet you still get some wrestlers who sell the wrong arm or leg.
> 
> 
> 
> *exceptions do happen, especially when the narrative is against a Japanese opponent using the lariat


Agreed, but I tend to give more of a pass to more "green" wrestlers. And you do see work to the right IF opponent uses that limb for a specific finish/signature move (Nakamura/Tanahashi as a recent example). Happens in the States too, but moreso on the indies and classic NWA/AWA matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Interesting that the topic of left/right use is being brought up here since I've been thinking about it for a while.

Anyone can answer why almost everyone does suplexes from the left side? It also seems to be the case with DDTs or any front facelock moves in general. Any reason for that when the wrestler in question is right handed? (Orton always does DDT/suplexes from the left even though he's right handed, Edge did the impaler DDT from the left and so on)

And another thing, how come so many left-handed wrestlers use strikes with their right? Regal sticks with the left, but others like HBK, Cena and Benoit who are lefties use their right for punches. (Shawn also did the SCM with his right)

On the subject of which side is worked on, it reminds me of the excellent Bryan/Orton match from February when Orton worked on Bryan's *right* shoulder which caught me by surprise.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

People haven't noticed its usually always the left side that gets worked over? Crazy lol. I always just chalked it up to them working the left side because its "weaker" than the right if the guy is right handed. Potentially easier to make a guy submit etc. Though that being said I do think it's kinda dumb because, like, TAKE OUT THE STRONG ARM SO IT'S NO LONGER STRONG.

Wrestling's crazy, M'Kay?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Interesting that the topic of left/right use is being brought up here since I've been thinking about it for a while.
> 
> Anyone can answer why almost everyone does suplexes from the left side? It also seems to be the case with DDTs or any front facelock moves in general. Any reason for that when the wrestler in question is right handed? (Orton always does DDT/suplexes from the left even though he's right handed, Edge did the impaler DDT from the left and so on)
> 
> ...



I'm guessing they always do suplexes/DDT's etc from the left so that no matter who you are wrestling, the opponent knows which side you're going to do the move from. Say you are in the middle of a heated exchange and you call a suplex, you want that guy to move his body to your left side always so that he's there for you when your doing the move. Say you whip a guy into the ropes and call a DDT for him on the rebound, it would fuck things up if you were expecting him to come to your left side and duck his head and he instead went to your right. You might run into each other. That's what I always figured the reason to be, so that everything looks more fluid and there aren't any surprises. Same with clotheslines, if you whip a guy into the ropes and are planning on clotheslining him, you stick your right arm out and he goes to the left side of your body, you're going to look foolish and just stumble into each other.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah I thought everyone would've realized by now that it's almost always the left side that gets targeted for limb work. Never cared what the reason for it was.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

JustJoel said:


> Irrational Cena criticism incoming...
> 
> Seriously, unless you're in Mexico, _everybody_ works the left side - that's what you do. I don't care for Cena particularly, nor that match, but everyone from your boy Okada and Nakamura to Owen and Bret work the left; that's wrestling, baby!


I don't think I've ever seen Okada work an arm before. He always targets the neck. I haven't seen "Old Shinskay" from before 2011 but the only time I've seen him target an arm, that I can recall anyways, was vs. Tanahashi in February earlier this year and that was targeting the right arm. In what I consider the match of the 2000's Tanahashi destroys Okada's right arm on 4/7/13 and he does this again in their G-1 draw and KoPW match. Not saying "my boys" are perfect, but I've not seen that lazy booking from the specific two that you mention as "my boys".


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I can't speak for Japanese wrestling but in WWE it's almost always left.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I'm halfway through Wrestlewar 89 and it's hot garbage. I'm sure Flair and Steamboat will make up for it but marking for Muta and laughing at the dynamic dudes has been my only entertainment so far. What a slog to get through.

I used this thread to mention it cause more people post in this one then the classic one.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> I don't think I've ever seen Okada work an arm before. He always targets the neck. I haven't seen "Old Shinskay" from before 2011 but the only time I've seen him target an arm, that I can recall anyways, was vs. Tanahashi in February earlier this year and that was targeting the right arm. In what I consider the match of the 2000's Tanahashi destroys Okada's right arm on 4/7/13 and he does this again in their G-1 draw and KoPW match. Not saying "my boys" are perfect, but I've not seen that lazy booking from the specific two that you mention as "my boys".


No need to be defensive - I use "your boy" as a term of endearment, and do the same for guys I mark for/like. As in, "That's my boy DBryan!" Should I show you half a dozen examples from both guys, or does cherry picking from memory suffice for you?

I actually agreed with the majority of your analysis of the Cena/HBK match, and summarizes a lot of why older Cena stuff does absolutely nothing for me. I just thought the "targeting the wrong arm" criticism was misplaced, because at least 95% of matches not involving luchadores will work from the left. I could show you Jumbo, Misawa, Flair, Inoki, Thesz, and all the rest doing the same thing. It's part of the origin and innerworking of the art. It's also what makes intentionally working the "wrong" side special when it happens - because naturally, they will work the left, and must consceniously choose to work the other (usually for a very specific purpose).

@Choke2Death - it's been answered, but it's the same reason as working from the left, and when you see Suplexes done to the wrong side, they look "off." Like, watch luchadores do a vertical Suplex - it looks...weird (from being conditioned to see it always on he left.)


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

JustJoel said:


> No need to be defensive - I use "your boy" as a term of endearment, and do the same for guys I mark for/like. As in, "That's my boy DBryan!" Should I show you half a dozen examples from both guys, or does cherry picking from memory suffice for you?


You could show me one example where Okada worked for more than two or three minutes on an arm and I'd feel satisfied because I've seen probably 90+% of his singles matches and don't recall it ever happening. Feel free to show half a dozen from Nakamura because he always works the stomach, which, to me, is to the detriment of his matches. I do know from reading up on him that before he turned into Swagsuke he was an arm specialist but I've never watched him with the exception of his match vs. Tanahashi in Feb. of 09 which I have 0 recollection of.

Despite my avatar and sig, Tanahashi is "my boy" . Love that guy. Best in the World!


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The reason why wrestlers work the left side of the body is because the North American style of wrestling use a left leg forward lock up. This the natural thing is to grab the left limb. It's because of the footwork wrestlers work left limbs. In lucha they lock up with the right foot forward, thus they work the right arm or leg. The footwork use to grab the right hand from a right foot forward stance looks much cleaner and vice versa. They do it like that for a reason- so that they don't look clumsy.

I thought this was common knowledge by now.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Working on the left side usually applies when it comes to legwork, and JustJoel is right when he says it'a a matter of respect for the game and its players, i.e. same things goes for when wrestlers still do tags in No DQ tag matches. Working on the right side happens on upper bodypart much more often, especially in Europe and Japan. For example, Wretler A is known for throwing nasty lariats with the right hand, so Wrestler B is trying to obliterate that exact right hand.

I love it that way, because when wrestlers switch sides, it's more special.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Network update!

- This weekend the documentary from _The Top 25 Rivalries in Wrestling History_ will start streaming. Think I'm gonna check that one out myself.

- Next week we see another random Best of RAW being added from January 9, 2006. This is the one with Edge & Lita's LIVE sex celebration. I wonder if full nip slip is included.  Also has a good looking tag match in Carlito & Chris Masters vs. Shawn Michaels & Kurt Angle. 

- The next edition of WWE Countdown will feature the Top 10 Factions in Wrestling History. 

- RAW is available all the way up to July 25, 1994 which means the July 11th episode with the Bret Hart vs. 123 Kid match everyone loves is ready to be watched again.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Nice. Gotta watch that in great quality.

I wrote about an ECW match in the classics section. Can't wait until they get to the meat and potatoes of ECW in 96-00 so we can have good quality instead of VHS/Daily Motion quality. I really hope they put up full ECW events that aren't ppvs like "As Good As It Gets" <---one of best events in wrestling history, "Big Ass Extreme Bash", "House Party 1998", etc, etc..



> I love it that way, because when wrestlers switch sides, it's more special.


This is what killed me about that Tana/Okada match I mentioned. Okada doesn't use his other arm but grits his teeth and hits it with his injured arm and then had to make the cover and Tana kicked out. EVERYBODY knew Okada was winning that match but when Tana kicked out of that, I doubted the rest of the match that Okada was a sure thing.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Strangely, I have Triple H/Sheamus over the two secondary WM26 MEs (Batista/Cena & Jericho/Edge).


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

You talking about that KOPW match bigbuxx? Yeah Tana fucked up Okada's arm real bad in that one and when he hit that Rainmaker with the injured arm (and sold the pain perfectly btw) and Tana kicked out, I loved that :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Strangely, I have Triple H/Sheamus over the two secondary WM26 MEs (Batista/Cena & Jericho/Edge).


I'd take HHH/Sheamus over Edge/Jericho. Not Cena/Batista though.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HHH/Sheamus is criminally underrated imo


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I remember being so pumped for Edge/Jericho thinking it was gonna be an awesome match..... good god was I wrong lol.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Cena/Batista>Sheamus/HHH>Jericho/Edge

So much excitement in Cena/Batista. Had a great atmosphere as well.


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

I was thinkin' how many fans of JBL/Bradshaw are there around here? He's pretty underrated if you ask me, I've always been a fan of his. I think cause I started watching 'E in 2004 during his title reign; during his feud with 'Taker for SummerSlam. That would be cool if they put out a DVD about him. What matches would you put on it? A few of my choices:

Bradshaw vs. Vader ~ Breakdown '98
Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL ~ Judgment Day '04
Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL ~ Smackdown '04 (Steel Cage)
JBL vs. The Undertaker ~ SummerSlam 2004
JBL vs. The Undertaker ~ No Mercy 2004

...Uh help me out with some other ones? Haha.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> - Next week we see another random Best of RAW being added from January 9, 2006. This is the one with Edge & Lita's LIVE sex celebration. I wonder if full nip slip is included.  Also has a good looking tag match in Carlito & Chris Masters vs. Shawn Michaels & Kurt Angle.


They'll probably edit out Cena's "For those drinking haterade, you can kiss my ass" line from his promo in the first segment too because Good Guy Cena can never be mean. 

Hope they add the Smackdown from that same week when Benoit/Orton had that phenomenal match and Kurt Angle showed up in the battle royal to become World Champion. I actually tweeted them about it and asked if they can add a few specific episodes, this SD being one of them. They responded with an "We'll consider it, thanks for the suggestion" answer.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> You could show me one example where Okada worked for more than two or three minutes on an arm and I'd feel satisfied because I've seen probably 90+% of his singles matches and don't recall it ever happening. Feel free to show half a dozen from Nakamura because he always works the stomach, which, to me, is to the detriment of his matches. I do know from reading up on him that before he turned into Swagsuke he was an arm specialist but I've never watched him with the exception of his match vs. Tanahashi in Feb. of 09 which I have 0 recollection of.


You're right that neither regularly target the arm in long control sequences - makes sense looking at their finishers - why target the arm if you're gonna lariat/knee 'em? What's the limb-work building towards rhetorical kind of thing. Okada especially because his opponent will likely target his arm, and both guys working an arm is uninspiring in most cases.

However: http://touch.dailymotion.com/#/vide...tsuya-naito-njpw-wrestle-kingdom-8-2014_sport

At about the 15min mark, you'll see Okada grab a Hammerlock on the left arm of Naito. Okada applies a Headlock with his left arm after and takes him over in the same match. That's what I'm referring to. It's the universal (except Lucha) way to apply holds - and as Cal said - it's "easier" to work the less conditioned/coordinated arm (usually left) than the "stronger" right arm.



> Despite my avatar and sig, Tanahashi is "my boy" . Love that guy. Best in the World!


Have you read the translated excerpts from his book? Excellent read

http://yottsumepuroresu.blogspot.com/?m=1


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> You talking about that KOPW match bigbuxx? Yeah Tana fucked up Okada's arm real bad in that one and when he hit that Rainmaker with the injured arm (and sold the pain perfectly btw) and Tana kicked out, I loved that :mark:


Nope. It happened in the Invasion Attack match to but better. Despite watching the KoPW match like 5+ times, I've yet to rate it. Just an enjoyable ride.



JustJoel said:


> Have you read the translated excerpts from his book? Excellent read
> 
> http://yottsumepuroresu.blogspot.com/?m=1


omfg tyty. 

Of course your correct about "what does it lead into". Which leads me to the HBK/Cena match. It's lazy because it leads into nothing, especially when Cena catches him like it's nothing when Shawn does a plancha. Your link didn't work. I think we're talking about two different things anyways. I'm looking at the long term lasting effects of the holds instead of the, he's doing this to transition to a move. Anyways, learn something new everyday. Thanks to you and the other guy who explained the arm thingy from lucha and US.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Just put on War of the Worlds, since I'm going to try to get into ROH again. 

Fuck TNA chants. :lmao


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

JustJoel said:


> Have you read the translated excerpts from his book? Excellent read
> 
> http://yottsumepuroresu.blogspot.com/?m=1


From Tanahashi's book:



> One thing that Okada lacks is an irresistible body that people could tell by first glance that he is a pro-wrestler. This is what makes pro-wrestler different from other athletes, and I think that all wrestler should aim for building such body. When Okada attains this, he will be second to none.


This is so true. Everytime I see him, his chests sticks out because, well, his chest doesn't stick out at all. As soon as he starts benching and working on his chest he'll look like somebody not to be fucked with.

His candid talk about Naito is awesome. Great subtle psychology there and apparently he was pretty angry with him after that speech.



> We’re not some dining run by an opinionated old man, and should never be that way. We shouldn’t put our product in the audience’s face and rant, “This is how we do it! And you should appreciate it!” We should make it enjoyable for everyone.


lol slapping Vinny Mac?

Thanks again for the link. Awesome stuff.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

First match (6 Man Tag) was fun. Liked the end, especially. 

Okada/Styles/Elgin sounds like it could be fucking awesome. Can't wait. :mark:


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

That 3-way was damn good. Nothing more than good though. ***1/2+ for it. Nakamura/Steen was on that level to. KUSHIDA and Lethal were a step under. I'm also a huge KUSHIDA mark from the first time I saw his flippy ass and stupid hair (back then it was stupid but better than now since it gave him swag). Push KUSHIDA to the moon please!


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

So apparently there was an awesome Cesaro vs Sheamus match in the house show in Oberhausen, Germany (Sheamus worked as a heel).

They've already wrestled twice on TV in the past month, but I want a PPV match between those two.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Skipped the second match. Liked KUSHIDA/Lethal a lot. Disappointed KUSHIDA didn't win. Got behind him mid-match, and this is the first match of his I've seen. Guy seems awesome.

EDIT: Briscoes/Bullet Club was fun, IMO. Don't remember that much about them from when I used to watch, but do remember them somewhat. Watched a few of their promos recently, like them a lot. Both guys are thoroughly entertaining to me.

Liked Steen/Nakamura quite a bit, as well. Good match, both guys seem awesome. Steen :mark: Segment after was... interesting.

Tanahashi/Bennett was OK. Nothing special.

Cole/Liger was OK, too. Nothing special either.

Styles/Okada/Elgin was good.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RFWHC said:


> Just put on War of the Worlds, since I'm going to *try to get into ROH again*.
> 
> Fuck TNA chants. :lmao


I've tried this at least 3 times since Final Battle 2011 (one of the worst shows I've ever seen in wrestling) and have failed every time. Not only have the fans gotten SO much worse but the commentary is unbearable. I tried watching AJ Styles vs. Roderick Strong from earlier this year and quite literally 3 minutes into the match they were chanting 'this is wrestling' after a couple single leg takedowns. fpalm



DoubtGin said:


> So apparently there was an awesome Cesaro vs Sheamus match in the house show in Oberhausen, Germany (Sheamus worked as a heel).
> 
> They've already wrestled twice on TV in the past month, but I want a PPV match between those two.


Seems like a near lock for Payback along with Usos/Wyatts for the Tag belts. Both are (Y) for me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

KingDio said:


> I was thinkin' how many fans of JBL/Bradshaw are there around here? He's pretty underrated if you ask me, I've always been a fan of his. I think cause I started watching 'E in 2004 during his title reign; during his feud with 'Taker for SummerSlam. That would be cool if they put out a DVD about him. What matches would you put on it? A few of my choices:
> 
> Bradshaw vs. Vader ~ Breakdown '98
> Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL ~ Judgment Day '04
> ...



I really like Bradshaw/JBL too, he isn't a world class in ring technician or anything but that's not his character. He could have DAMN good matches at times, his heel promos are fabulous, the APA was fucking tits, and his brawling is world class at times. Best JBL matches you didn't list are:

Vs Eddie Guerrero Bullrope match GAB 2004
Vs Cena I Quit Match JD 2005
Vs Big Show Barbwire Cage NWO 2005
Vs Finlay Belfast Brawl WM 24

He also had a great match with Rey Mysterio I just can't remember when.



Choke2Death said:


> They'll probably edit out Cena's "For those drinking haterade, you can kiss my ass" line from his promo in the first segment too because Good Guy Cena can never be mean.
> 
> Hope they add the Smackdown from that same week when Benoit/Orton had that phenomenal match and Kurt Angle showed up in the battle royal to become World Champion. I actually tweeted them about it and asked if they can add a few specific episodes, this SD being one of them. They responded with an "We'll consider it, thanks for the suggestion" answer.


If you get them to upload 1/13/06 SD I will forever be your biggest fan. I'd kill for that match in HD.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I've tried this at least 3 times since Final Battle 2011 (one of the worst shows I've ever seen in wrestling) and have failed every time. Not only have the fans gotten SO much worse but the commentary is unbearable. I tried watching AJ Styles vs. Roderick Strong from earlier this year and quite literally 3 minutes into the match they were chanting 'this is wrestling' after a couple single leg takedowns. fpalm


Commentary seems pretty awful from what I've watched of this PPV, so far. Just finished Tanahashi/Bennett. Crowd doesn't really bother me, tbh. I actually kind of like them, in some respect. Maybe after (if) I start watching regularly I'll see what you mean. It's just kind of refreshing since I haven't watched in a good while. Plus, I have close to no interest in the WWE right now and have been disinterested for a month now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> If you get them to upload 1/13/06 SD I will forever be your biggest fan. I'd kill for that match in HD.


We shall see.  It is a historic episode so they need to prioritize it. Batista vacates the title, Angle wins the battle royal and Orton is the first (and so far) last man to win a title for someone else. I want that, 2MPT/Benoit-Jericho and the Brock/Benoit matches in HD badly!

Now, I'm off to watch The Conquerer vs The Deadman for the first time since Wrestlemania. Will see if it holds up and if the shock is still there after the finish.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Some thoughts on the DX/Legacy encounters?





Spoiler: from 2012



SUMMERSLAM
I liked the first ten minutes of this a ton (the match- DX's entrance was kinda really lame and if that was on while I was having dinner with my family I would have to explain I don't enjoy it). HHH just spends some time punching and kneeing both Legacy dudes in the face and his stuff looked good. Then Rhodes gets near Michaels and it's obvious as hell he's going to slap him in the face. Obviousness kind of bothers some people, but it doesn't bother me, I was looking forward to it and if he DIDN'T happen to slap him in the face I would have said a mighty "what the fuck!?" What was really great about the slap was the crowd were chanting 'HBK' and Michaels were looking at them meaning he didn't see Cody's hand plummet toward his beard. Obviously he wants t be tagged in now, and after some dilly-dally wrestling Cody just slaps in the face AGAIN. Michaels says "fuck you" and tackles him to the ground, but Rhodes saids "no, fuck YOU" and reverses it right away and punches at his face. Best two minutes of Cody Rhodes ever. Both Legacy members work over Michaels really well and I don't remember this team looking this good. I was actually disappointed when Michaels got the tags because I wanted the Legacy's stuff to go longer. HHH's house o' fire sort of thing was all right, but it was great when Cody kicked Trip in the back while on apron like 'ah fuck you', but then HHH says 'no fuck YOU' and pulls him in the ring. The finishing parts were kinda cool with HHH getting in a sort-of-cheap-shot Pedigree and people bumping everywhere, but it didn't feel like the sort of end I wanted I liked the match overall. The end was fine (Cody sold the superkick pretty bad though), but through it I was like "IDK what I wanted near the end but it wasn't this." You understanding me? If not then I'll say fuck you worse than Cody Rhodes did. . It feels like these two teams had a really good ten minute TV match in them that I hope actually happened. Even then, as of now this is either my favourite or second favourite Michaels/HHH tag. IDK if that's saying a WHOLE lot because I think most of their matches were either average or kinda shitty or really shitty, but I liked this. 

BREAKING POINT
So I just gone done saying these teams wrestled a good, normal match, and here we are with Submissions Count Anywhere. I don't remember seeing too many Submissions Count Anywhere matches, so I wasn't sure what to totally expect. I saw visions of four goofballs putting on shitty crossfaces on the streets in front of confused locals. And a moose (they were in Canada). What this was OK, but I'm not much a fan of the WWE-style All Over the Arena brawl even when they're done pretty well (and this one was done kinda averagely). The opening was kind of weird with Michaels looking at HHH and DiBiase instead of looking at Rhodes kick him in the leg. If he doesn't see it he won't sell it. Both DX guys work both Legacy guys' legs and I liked DiBiase stumbling toward HHH and almost falling over when punching him the head. The Boston Crab/Camel Clutch through the chair spot was really cool. They wind up in the concession area where they have a bunch of random chanting weirdos yelling 'YOU SCREWED BRET' at Michaels, and this was just after they worked over both Rhodes' and DiBiase's legs. Then they put on figure-fours. HUH? You're in Montreal surrounded by beer-guzzling bitter Bret Hart fans- USE THE SHARPSHOOTER. Speaking of submission moves - I wish neither member of DX ever used the crossface. I'm not particularly offended by it or anything; they just suck ass at putting it on. Back near the ring sometime later Rhodes has this reverse Gory Guerrero whatever thingy it is on Michaels and HHH seemingly breaks it up by jumping off of the apron and not even touching him. I'm imagining Steph telling Cody before the match- "Whenever you put that Reverse Gory Guerrero Whatever Thingy It Is on Shawn- you will break it up when Hunter jumps to the floor." To which Cody replies with "YES EMPRESS!" and a salute. I don't remember much of the last moments where the Legacy were working Michaels over solo. Well I kinda do but I don't really think it's really worth mentioning. IDK. Needed a moose. If this had Shawn Michaels putting on a sharpshooter in front of a moose it would have been ****1/2.

HELL IN A CELL
I loved the idea of this. Unfortunately it wasn't executed very well and just wasn't much fun to watch. Rhodes and DiBiase attack DX before the match even starts and they brawl all around the outside. Said brawling just wasn't that good. They get to the ramp entrance place and HHH takes Rhodes' god-awful finisher (seriously the fuck is that thing?) on the entrance way. This way they lock the door and keep Shawn in the ring and can just beat on him and win handily. It was just kind of boring and I thought the visual of HHH lying there was funny. Shawn's semi-comebacks were kind of fun, I liked when he just channelled his inner Sabu and chucked the chair directly at Cody's face. Rhodes also took a hell of a bump into the cell when Michaels used DiBiase as a weapon. One MILLION minutes after lying dead from The Shitty Thing That Is Cody Rhodes' Finisher, HHH is flopping and bouncing like a mental patient on stilts down the ramp-way. And I thought him just lying there was funny. Then he can't open the lock and DiBiase yells like an idiot "you like that donchta?" "you're HELPESS TRIPLE HHHHHH". That was also kind of funny, like when the Miz tries to act serious. Actually Shawn's acting in some of this was abysmal, like I don't remember anything short of his awful Southern Belle performance at this year's WrestleMania being worse. He was shaking a wobbling like an old man, and he was better at shaking and wobbling like an old man in 1996 when he wasn't actually an old man. So HHH leaves to what I'm hoping is him running down the ramp yelling like a barbarian to try to break the door down with his shoulder, but instead what I get after a millionerererer more minutes than him lying there was some bolt cutters. He cuts the door he hits people DiBiase locked out DX win match over GOODBYE. Bleh.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> We shall see.  It is a historic episode so they need to prioritize it. Batista vacates the title, Angle wins the battle royal and Orton is the first (and so far) last man to win a title for someone else. I want that, 2MPT/Benoit-Jericho and the Brock/Benoit matches in HD badly!
> 
> Now, I'm off to watch The Conquerer vs The Deadman for the first time since Wrestlemania. Will see if it holds up and if the shock is still there after the finish.


Brock/Benoit :mark: :mark: After Eddie/Rey 6/23/05 and Austin/Benoit SD I think that Brock/Benoit is probably the 3rd best TV match ever. Power Trip tag would be right there as well.

Speaking of GREAT TV matches, I just watched two of my all time favorites: Bret Hart vs 1-2-3 Kid Raw 1994 and Eddie vs Angle 4/15/05 SD. For those that haven't seen that Smackdown match, it's fucking EPIC. If they had had THAT match at WM 20, there is a chance WM 20 would be a strong contender for best Mania ever, top 3 atleast. The near falls are just SICK, and Angle doesn't go for the Ankle Lock until right near the end so there is no spamming of holds. This has to be one of the best executed fast paced matches I've ever seen. There is no "full retard" happening here, just some BAD ASS wrestling. This would make my list for 10 greatest matches on SD history for certain. C2D if you haven't seen this, or haven't seen it in a while, I reccomend you check it out pronto whenever you need something to watch.

Bret/Kid just might be my 2nd favorite Raw match ever (behind the TMPT tag). Jim Ross said in an interview it's one of if not THE best pure wrestling matches he's ever seen (by that he means a baby face vs baby face type match). Bret is just the man and Kid turns in a face performance for the ages, he had everyone on the edge of their seat and totally believing he just might be able to pull out a big win vs the Hitman.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watching a bunch of wen matches today since it is the 15 year anniversary of his horrific death. Cage match vs Bret at Summerslam 94 about to start. Absolutely love it.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Watching these 96/97 WCW ppvs leads me to the question: Why is it so hard for the WWE to make the midcard interesting. The stuff WCW did was enough to have reasons for what people did and make it entertaining. They could even rehash a bunch of it because they're standard storylines that haven't been seen in many years.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena/Batista, Jericho/Edge, and Sheamus/HHH were all not good. That time could have been spent watch ten Usos matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cena/Batista I liked, if not really THAT much. Sheamus/Trip was average and Jericho/Edge is one of my absolute least favourite matches of all time. There's like one positive ten seconds in the entire match and it happens way too late. One of the worst world title matches I've ever seen.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Edge/Jericho was the best of the three, Cena/Batista was really good as well on last watch, and Sheamus/HHH was good too.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Wasn't the original planned WM 26 card supposed to feature Dibease/Undertaker and HBK/McIntyre?

Lmfao.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I feel like watching a WWE ppv. Someone give me a year.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Wasn't the original planned WM 26 card supposed to feature Dibease/Undertaker and HBK/McIntyre?
> 
> Lmfao.


It was actually gonna be Barrett/Taker, HBK/McIntyre, and Sheamus/Trips. That was the plan going into the Spring/summer of 2009 after WM 25. Shawn initially after WM 25 wanted to do the re match with Taker, but Vince said he wanted to go with young guys for WM 26 so that's why he changed it all up. Then after they did the DX/Legacy thing, it became obvious that Drew and Wade just wouldn't be ready, so Shawn pushed Vince to go with the rematch. Vince hadn't even agreed to it yet when the Slammys came around. Before going out to do his speech Shawn said to Vince "if we are gonna do the re match we need to start now" and Vince said "well, I don't know". Shawn went out and cut his promo on Taker and when he came back through the curtain Vince said "well I guess we are going there then". And that was it, that's how we got saved from suffering the indignity of seeing Taker defend his Streak against Wade fucking Barrett at WM 26. I'm pretty sure that match would have caused Cal to have a coronary, I am kind of sad we never got to see a Drew/Shawn match, while that isn't a WM quality match they certainly could have done something awesome if given 20 minutes on Raw or something. Apparently Hunter was initially pissed because he was the only one getting stuck with a new guy for WM 26 :lol

This is all straight from Shawn's mouth in the "My Favorite Matches" book WWE released.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> I feel like watching a WWE ppv. Someone give me a year.



Watch either No Mercy 2003, Judgement Day 2001, or No Mercy 2008. Or go with a classic like Summerslam 2002, No Way Out 2008, Summerslam 2001, Vengeance 2003, Vengeance 2005, Fully Loaded 2000, or Backlash 2000. There has to be something in there you will like


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Watch either No Mercy 2003, Judgement Day 2001, or No Mercy 2008. Or go with a classic like Summerslam 2002, No Way Out 2008, Summerslam 2001, Vengeance 2003, Vengeance 2005, Fully Loaded 2000, or Backlash 2000.


Somehow all of those shows you named are sort of 'fresh' in my head so I'm not feelin em right now.  Only ones I haven't seen in full are No Mercy '08 and JD '01.

Lemme just get a random year and I'll pick a show from the network. Someone shout it out!


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

2006. I've never seen a show from 2006 so do a review.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> 2006. I've never seen a show from 2006 so do a review.


Bingo! We've got a winner. Eventual review of some PPV from that year coming soon. :lol For now we'll keep it a mystery.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

> It was actually gonna be Barrett/Taker, HBK/McIntyre, and Sheamus/Trips. That was the plan going into the Spring/summer of 2009 after WM 25. Shawn initially after WM 25 wanted to do the re match with Taker, but Vince said he wanted to go with young guys for WM 26 so that's why he changed it all up. Then after they did the DX/Legacy thing, it became obvious that Drew and Wade just wouldn't be ready, so Shawn pushed Vince to go with the rematch. Vince hadn't even agreed to it yet when the Slammys came around. Before going out to do his speech Shawn said to Vince "if we are gonna do the re match we need to start now" and Vince said "well, I don't know". Shawn went out and cut his promo on Taker and when he came back through the curtain Vince said "well I guess we are going there then". And that was it, that's how we got saved from suffering the indignity of seeing Taker defend his Streak against Wade fucking Barrett at WM 26. I'm pretty sure that match would have caused Cal to have a coronary, I am kind of sad we never got to see a Drew/Shawn match, while that isn't a WM quality match they certainly could have done something awesome if given 20 minutes on Raw or something. Apparently Hunter was initially pissed because he was the only one getting stuck with a new guy for WM 26



Wait, I thought Taker/Barrett was rumored for WM27? I had no idea it was planned for WM26.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Did Barrett even debut before 26? Nexus came out in like June of 2010, didn't they?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Wait, I thought Taker/Barrett was rumored for WM27? I had no idea it was planned for WM26.




Was just about to say this, I'm pretty sure Barrett wasn't even on the main roster.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Whoops I got it wrong, just double checked the book, here is the card:

Taker/McIntyre :mark:
Miz/HBK
Sheamus/HHH


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Whoops I got it wrong, just double checked the book, here is the card:
> 
> Taker/McIntyre :mark:
> Miz/HBK
> Sheamus/HHH




I could have sworn I saw 

HBK/Mclntyre 
Taker/Dibease 
Sheamus/HHH 

Maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I could have sworn I saw
> 
> HBK/Mclntyre
> Taker/Dibease
> ...


I literally just read that out of a book that was released by WWE, so even if Shawn mis remembered I doubt they would have printed it, they have fact checkers for that sort of stuff. Hey maybe both cards were on Vince's mind at one point, you know how it works he changes his mind a million times before each WM. Shit the Main Event for this years Mania wasn't even set until AFTER the Royal Rumble. That's pure insanity but hey that's how they do business these days.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I literally just read that out of a book that was released by WWE, so even if Shawn mis remembered I doubt they would have printed it, they have fact checkers for that sort of stuff. Hey maybe both cards were on Vince's mind at one point, you know how it works he changes his mind a million times before each WM. *Shit the Main Event for this years Mania wasn't even set until AFTER the Royal Rumble. That's pure insanity but hey that's how they do business these days.*


Still came out great, so I guess that matters more than an elaborate, non-reactionary plan


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Ryback/Henry told a similar story to Andre/Hogan, but executed it far better. Kill me, Chismo. But not before I talk about Kiyoshi Tamura.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not exaggerating when I say, that is one of the most incredible sequences I have EVER seen. Those two looked like freaking robots. It was made even cooler cause both guys were wearing the same gear and look somewhat similar, so it was hard to tell who was who at times because they were just moving so fast. I watched it 4 times in a row, and I still can't tell you all that I saw. I'd love to see that slowed down to half or quarter speed, because that counter Tamura has out of the arm bar is one of the slickest things I've ever seen done in a ring. Thanks for posting this, that was awesome (Y)



King Kai Guy said:


> Still came out great, so I guess that matters more than an elaborate, non-reactionary plan


Oh, absolutely. You won't hear me complaining at all about how well this years Mania came off. Story book ending for the tale of Danielson. I've said this before, I'll say it again: I havent cared, genuinely, honest to goodness CARED, about the outcome of a match that much since back in 2004 when Eddie had his match with Brock and Benoit had his match with Hunter and Shawn. I mean, yes I wanted to see Punk win at MitB 2011 but I wouldn't have been heartbroken or despondent if he lost, more just annoyed at WWE for botching a great angle. So it has been a full decade since I was that invested in seeing a wrestler win the title. The funny thing is, at Summerslam 2013 I wanted Bryan to win but wouldn't have been that mad if he lost. I always liked Bryan and thought he was an incredible wrestler, but it took this storyline and seeing him get shit on and attempted to be pushed down the card over and over for me to finally, 100%, have him become one of my "guys". 

The Streak ending is the go to "memorable moment" for WM 30. That was shocking, yes, but it didn't generate the emotional response that seeing Bryan win did in me. That's what I will always remember WM 30 for first and foremost: it was the event that let me act like a kid again and just genuinely try and WILL a guy to win the big match. When Bryan hits that knee only for Batista to throw him out of the ring and go for the cover, I legitimately yelped in disbelief and damn near vomited at the thought that it was gonna end that way. That's how emotional it was during the ending stretch of that match. And that's why it's really hard to rate that match objectively because to really get the FULL experience, it could only happen watching it live for the first time. Rewatches don't do it any justice.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So the ppv I chose to watch... has been absolutely fucking phenomenal. So consistent. There's a match dead in the middle of the card that I've never seen ANYONE praise in my life and I loved it to the high heavens. My goodness what a wonderful contest. Halfway through the show!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> So the ppv I chose to watch... has been absolutely fucking phenomenal. So consistent. There's a match dead in the middle of the card that I've never seen ANYONE praise in my life and I loved it to the high heavens. My goodness what a wonderful contest. Halfway through the show!


What show are you watching???


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It's a mystery!


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> So the ppv I chose to watch... has been absolutely fucking phenomenal. So consistent. There's a match dead in the middle of the card that I've never seen ANYONE praise in my life and I loved it to the high heavens. My goodness what a wonderful contest. Halfway through the show!


Is it from 2006? I'm gonna say it's either Backlash or GAB. Speaking of 2006, what'd y'all think of Rey/JBL (Judgement Day)? I thought it was straight up awesome, don't wanna give it ****1/4 cause I've given so many matches that rating, so probably on the high end of a **** rating. Great heel work by JBL.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WWE No Mercy 2006​*Matt Hardy vs. Gregory Helms - *** 1/4

*WWE Tag Team Championship*
Paul London & Brian Kendrick (c) vs. KC James & Idol Stevens - *** 3/4

MVP vs. Marty Garner - DUD

The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy - ****

*Falls Count Anywhere*
Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero - ** 3/4

Chris Benoit vs. William Regal - ****

*World Heavyweight Championship - Fatal 4-Way*
King Booker (c) vs. Batista vs. Finlay vs. Bobby Lashley - ** 3/4​
- Really surprised by how much I enjoyed the opener. Never been that big a fan of either guy, but man, Helms was on point in this one. His work really impressed me. Good callback in the finish and a good opener overall.

- What the high hell!? The Tag Title match was awesome! Both teams complimented each other perfectly. Aside from getting to see Damien Sandow 8 years ago appear in his first PPV contest, this KC James dude has a sick Bobby Eaton ol school look you need to see. London puts his body on the line as always and Michelle McCool has a wardrobe malfunction. What more do you want from a match??? Check this out!

- Instead of watching MVP's debut, watch the segment that took place before it. Miz's birthday celebration. It ends with Layla getting oil squirted all over her tits ( :yum: ) and JBL & Cole talking about big dick far more than they should've. Seriously, the tits and sexual references on this ppv are extreme... and I love it.

- Man oh man. The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy from this ppv has got to be the most criminally underrated match I've ever seen. I loved just about everything about it and they were all such small details. No shit when I say Kennedy puts in one hell of a performance. The way he eats the big boots, the constant selling of his left arm and shoulder even after just a brief workover period early in the match, the struggle he creates in certain spots throughout with the reversing of old school and then being driven into the ring post, and finally just the overall ring prowess he showed in such a high profile match early in his career. This was so good. I had no idea how the match ended and I was REALLY buying hard into some of those nearfalls. Kennedy hits a nasty looking piledriver about 3/4 of the way through the match (which again was met with struggle by the opponent, something I love to see) and the crowd stands up in awe and I don't think they ever sit down after that. I will admit the match does break down in the late stages but it's not _too_ much of a bad thing, it's kinda like 'how the hell is this match gonna end?' It in fact does end in a rather weak way but JBL plays it off so well with Taker's bad mood issues.  I was so surprised by this match. I could definitely see it making my top 10-15 from this year, but I'm sure there's a bunch of TV shit I've never seen. Either way someone else needs to watch this and maybe see the same great stuff I did.

- While the match was good and fun, they really missed an opportunity in Rey/Chavo. As personal as the feud had become, there's no reason why they couldn't have gone out and had a violent 2-on-1 war with Vickie getting involved until Rey made the miraculous comeback victory or something like that. Instead we got a fun little brawl through the crowd with Chavo getting vicious and Rey taking some rough bumps, but then he wins all of a sudden in weak fashion. Could've been more.

- We all know Benoit vs. Regal is pure physicality and pure bliss to a wrestling fan. You look up the word stiff in the dictionary and you see a picture of Benoit chopping Regal in the head. :lol Hell of a match. On one hand, I like the fact that Regal tapped to the crossface instantly after the long struggle, but on the other hand I REALLY wanted to see more of this. Seeing how long the PPV went (barely over 2 and a half hours btw), this could've easily gotten another 5 minutes.

- The first half of the main event just feels completely heatless and void of effort, but once Hornswoggle makes an appearance things become watchable. There is however a horribly laughable sequence where Batista and Lashley stare at each other across the ring for a good 10 seconds, so Lashley just watches him run across the ring to get speared.  Lashley's aggressiveness after Batista's head got busted open was sweet. Finishing sequence was good. Nothing special for a main event though, which is a shame because the rest of this show ROCKS. PPV of the year for '06??? Damn close!


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I was dead wrong lol, nice review though. I miss London and Kendrick as a team, such quality, consistent performances, The Daniel Bryan of tag teams. Nice to see you liked Ken/Taker, I liked it more to a ***1/4-***1/2 extent though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You had some decent guesses. haha. Watching that put me in the mood to watch more 2006 PPVs. May have to continue the trend this weekend. Maybe check out Great American Bash since I've never came anywhere remotely close to seeing anything from the show, maybe relive the FUN that is Armageddon, or maybe delve into some more Smackdown stuff with Judgment Day. Who knows. I can assure you I won't be diving into the mediocrity that was Survivor Series & Cyber Sunday though.

More people need to enjoy Taker/Kennedy.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Watch both JD and GAB. Both consistent shows imo. You watched the first blood encounter between Ken and Taker yet?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Been years since I've seen it. Don't recall it being anything special, which is usually the case with the stipulation. Only remember the postmatch chair shot though, really. Last Ride Match on the other hand could totally use a rewatch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Taker vs Kennedy is bleh. Treading the lines of sloppy as fuck, but still managed to not be "awful". Not sure how that happened. Undertaker, is all I got. So that's good considering the worst of the worst was his opponent. But Cal should like that someone finally agrees w/him. I dig the rest of the show. It's Smackdown in 2006, after all. Opener is awesome. And Benoit vs Regal is basically match of the year right off the top of my head. If not Benoit vs Finlay on either occasion they locked up.

Armageddon 2006 has some solid stuff on it, but suffers from a garbage audience which is too bad. LOL @ the Last Ride match & "superstar main event" tag on that show though. Horrible. GAB isn't consistent at all. It has that middle black hole on it. Fuck, why was Undertaker given NOTHING in 2006 on PPV? He had the Angle match & then that was it. Decent Henry Casket match, but they would do 100x w/o the stip. Well, the Khali match I like. It's effective, but that's not enough to help carry him. Then he had shit all the rest of the year. Anyways back to Smackdown PPVs. What else...Judgment Day is real good. Skip over the awful Booker vs Lashley match and you have a heck of an event.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I could have sworn that you blindly loved that Last Ride mtch. My god that match was so boring. And that tag match...Thank goodness that the NWO 2007 superstar tag match made up for that sham. But that first blood match. What the hell was that supposed to be? God bless Kurt Angle in 2006. The last year in his career where he was good. And he wasn't exactly great; he was just better than in 2004 and 2005. Helms/Hardy and the tag match from NM 06 rule though. I don't know if I like any Mysterio/Chavo match after 2004. Thought all their PPV matches after the GOATy GAB 04 match dragged like shit and I don't remember liking either I Quit match because Chavo bored me to death. They do deserve a rewatch.

But not before we watch the greatest women's match ever. Another classic from Japan in the 90s.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm not Cal. It hurts, but I can admit when an Undertaker match sucks. Most of the time it isn't b/c of him though. :sansa

Angle in 2006 is still bad. But he had the Undertaker matches. So, I guess that's enough to trump 2004 & 2005? Probably. In 2005 he ruined the magic of myself thinking all matches vs Mysterio were great. Their long match in Japan was tripe. Unforgivable.

That's not the greatest Joshi match b/c it doesn't have Aja Kong in it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

A kind soul uploaded all the Danielson/Black matches on vimeo. I don't think I'm allowed to link them here, but if you have a minute to spare, they're easy to find. And once you find them, let your eyes fornicate by watching two of the best wrestlers in the WWE today duke it out.

I'm eagerly awaiting Jheri to speak highly of Kudo/Toyoda.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Did you like the Orton/Angle matches in 2006 @ Hayley?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm eagerly awaiting Jheri to speak highly of Kudo/Toyoda.




I've only watched it once over two years ago, and still remember my exact reactions to a lot of what happened in the match. One of the rare matches that actually had me constantly physically reacting to it and I can't forget it. I remember exactly where I was watching it and everything. One of the best matches I've ever seen, and my #2 MOTY for 1996. Megumi Kudo should really be first on my list of ''watch this wrestler in a bundle.''


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> So the ppv I chose to watch... has been absolutely fucking phenomenal. So consistent. *There's a match dead in the middle of the card that I've never seen ANYONE praise in my life* and I loved it to the high heavens. My goodness what a wonderful contest. Halfway through the show!


must not have been looking very hard then


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Did you like the Orton/Angle matches in 2006 @ Hayley?


Nope.

that ONS match. the headaches.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Fair enough, you cool with the Angle/Henry JD match? I liked it somewhat.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yesh.

As I said, the only match I dislike from that PPV was Booker vs Lashley.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Best Joshi singles discussion and it's not centering around that Big Egg Universe match everyone online pimps to death? Glory. Though Hayley hits the nail on the head when the only big egg we should be praising is AJA KONG~!




JustJoel said:


> Not really. There's the historical aspect that legit grapplers/shooters/fighters didn't want guys back in the day to hurt their "good" side (most are right-handed), and the practicality of it: guys always (should) know what side to sell/work, streamlines the process (guys working unfamiliar opponents), etc.
> 
> As you can tell by the replies, most people don't even notice it (even the smarks!). May as well complain about Irish Whips and Back Body Drops.



Of course from an insider perspective, it's a great method. As Cactus brought up, it allows for the wrestlers to work seamlessly. But, and this is the side I'm coming from, we're not insiders. Well, I'm not, anyway. It doesn't sit well with me when I see it done to the left, and the opponent makes use more-so of their right side. I've had this debate, before, with someone from a shoot background and I enjoyed their outlook on it. For wrestling, negating the attacking leg is preferential (when it's done, of course). However, in shoots, the aim is to pick off the base (non-offensive) leg, with the idea that the opponent cannot get a decent swing or strong enough balance with a half-usable limb.

I'll never be one to demand that limbwork must have a direct payoff. That is, if the leg is worked solidly throughout, the match must end with a submission, but I do want it to play a factor into the match, at some point, and to have a context. That's the role of selling. Why does Bryan whollop Kane's left arm with kicks and kendo sticks when his offence originates solely from the right arm, and has a finisher that requires said limb? Why is Sheamus being worked over by Ambrose, to the point of limping on his left leg, only to be able to use it strongly as a base for the Brogue Kick? I'll grant those aren't the greatest examples, but they're ones fresh in memory.

It's not a selling discrepancy I'd hold against a match, or wrestler, because it's a fault of the medium. I'm quite honestly shocked most here didn't seem to notice the focus, either. Is it one I make a logical suspension for? Sure, but does that mean I don't find it silly? No.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Someone else likes Taker/Kennedy NM 06 :mark:. If you liked that match, then watch this one:

The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Nurnberg Germany 08.11.2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k66b627YjNUJ673VyRC (Private)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Some Randy Savage Memphis stuff i uploaded:

*Randy Savage Memphis Debut (1983)*



*Randy Savage vs Jerry Lawler Cage Match Promos/build up (12.1983)*



*Randy Savage vs Jerry Lawler (Cage Match) (12.12.1983)*


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Oh shit. I might have to check out some Memphis stuff. Thanks for uploading. Definitely checking out when I wake up later today.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Rah said:


> Best Joshi singles discussion and it's not centering around that Big Egg Universe match everyone online pimps to death? Glory. Though Hayley hits the nail on the head when the only big egg we should be praising is AJA KONG~!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No offense, man, but maybe you should consider taking a break from pro-graps. Posts like this are worrying, and I hate being the Devil's advocate, but fuck it, you gotta speak your mind every once in a while.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Never noticed which arm/leg is being worked on, and when it comes to being left handed/right handed....well, I really don't care. Just don't use the injured limb for offense. Hell, maybe that's why the non-dominant limb is always worked on; look at No Mercy 2002. Lesnar works on the broken hand and Taker still uses the goddamn hand to punch him.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Yeah1993 said:


> Just don't use the injured limb for offense.


I don't mind it at all, as long as it makes some sense within a context, and as long as it's sold sooner or later, one way or another (post-match selling FTW). Fighting through pain is something I really dig.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Joshi discussion? cool.

Anyone a fan of Manami Toyota vs (I think) the entire AJW roster?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Chismo said:


> No offense, man, but maybe you should consider taking a break from pro-graps. Posts like this are worrying, and I hate being the Devil's advocate, but fuck it, you gotta speak your mind every once in a while.


Eh, that's a rather critical point on wrestling I gave, sure, but it's more backing up why I think working only one side is stupid to those who notice it (something JustJoel said wasn't). It doesn't much hinder my enjoyment of the match, as I stated I can suspend my disbelief. It's just another addage to why pro-wrestling is a silly yet lovable little thing.




Yeah1993 said:


> look at No Mercy 2002. Lesnar works on the broken hand and Taker still uses the goddamn hand to punch him.


Best not say this too loud, the Overlord may hear us. :side:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> A kind soul uploaded all the Danielson/Black matches on vimeo. I don't think I'm allowed to link them here, but if you have a minute to spare, they're easy to find. And once you find them, let your eyes fornicate by watching two of the best wrestlers in the WWE today duke it out.
> 
> I'm eagerly awaiting Jheri to speak highly of Kudo/Toyoda.


Are all 3 of their HDNet matches included? Cause it doesn't count if they're not.



Femto said:


> must not have been looking very hard then


You too???



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Someone else likes Taker/Kennedy NM 06 :mark:. If you liked that match, then watch this one:
> 
> The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Nurnberg Germany 08.11.2006
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k66b627YjNUJ673VyRC (Private)


:mark: So watching this today.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *WWE No Mercy 2006​*Matt Hardy vs. Gregory Helms - *** 1/4
> 
> *WWE Tag Team Championship*
> Paul London & Brian Kendrick (c) vs. KC James & Idol Stevens - *** 3/4
> ...



I love your reviews dude, but rating Taker/Kennedy the same as Benoit/Regal makes me wonder exactly which sort of crack you are smoking. I know you don't live very far away from me, so I know you live close enough to DC for easy access to that sort of thing, so from the bottom of my heart, I hope you put the pipe down soon and come back to reality 

I'm gonna have to watch that Taker/Kennedy match again, I haven't seen it in ages. I remember it being pretty good but nothing special. Certainly not at the level of Benoit/Regal, which is my #2 for MotY 2006 behind only Benoit/Finlay JD.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:lol The only negative I have for Benoit/Regal is that I felt like it ended prematurely. Right as they were catching a major groove, it's over. That's essentially why it's rated the same. Taker/Kennedy got 20 minutes. They're both excellent matches either way. Pair those two with that balls to the wall Tag Title match and competitive opener and you've got a darn good show.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Taker/Kennedy is indeed pretty good, but speaking as a guy who has seen No Mercy 2006 more times than anybody EVER, I do agree that going **** for it is kinda stretching. It does have a little bit of sloppy over it, and the ending did rather suck. But it was still pretty good, around ***1/4. Benoit/Regal I have at ****1/4, super impressive for a 10 minute match. Really, the only match out of that show I'd put under **3/4 is the MVP squash (obviously).

Plus, you got THIS:









God, I love this show so much.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Remember reading another review of the Taker/Ken match, it said and I quote "Taker and Hunter should really stop thinking they're Flair and having 20+ minute bouts". The site was sedia cadia something like that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Taker/Kennedy is indeed pretty good, but speaking as a guy who has seen No Mercy 2006 more times than anybody EVER, I do agree that going **** for it is kinda stretching. It does have a little bit of sloppy over it, and the ending did rather suck. But it was still pretty good, around ***1/4. Benoit/Regal I have at ****1/4, super impressive for a 10 minute match. Really, the only match out of that show I'd put under **3/4 is the MVP squash (obviously).
> 
> Plus, you got THIS:
> 
> ...


The only sloppiness I saw was in the last few minutes when they were setting up those false ref bump encounters. The exposed turnbuckle bump could've been done better, but as it stands I think that's the main reason why we got the cheap finish with Taker being pissed off.

Someone needs to have a gif of Big Dick Johnson squirting oil on Layla's tits. The way she looked at that point in time was perfect btw. So curvy.

CAL, what are your ratings for the series?



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Remember reading another review of the Taker/Ken match, it said and I quote "Taker and Hunter should really stop thinking they're Flair and having 20+ minute bouts". The site was sedia cadia something like that.


Well, there site officially has no credibility.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> The only sloppiness I saw was in the last few minutes when they were setting up those false ref bump encounters. The exposed turnbuckle bump could've been done better, but as it stands I think that's the main reason why we got the cheap finish with Taker being pissed off.
> 
> *Someone needs to have a gif of Big Dick Johnson squirting oil on Layla's tits. The way she looked at that point in time was perfect btw. So curvy.*
> 
> ...












You're welcome. :woolcock


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Perfection. :yum:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

WTF is that :lmao


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Remember reading another review of the Taker/Ken match, it said and I quote "Taker and Hunter should really stop thinking they're Flair and having 20+ minute bouts". The site was sedia cadia something like that.


Segunda Caida?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> WTF is that :lmao


It's MAGIC... you know?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Yep, that's it, has great reviews. It's a blogspot site, I think.

EDIT: Googled it and I didn't quote right, it's actually "Undertaker really needs to stop thinking he is Helmsley and needs 20+ minutes every PPV. He really works best in 12-15 minute matches"

Flair must have come up due to being the master at performing 20+ minute matches.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> It's a mystery!


:hhh2 



Hayley Seydoux said:


> I'm not Cal. It hurts, but I can admit when an Undertaker match sucks. Most of the time it isn't b/c of him though.


:side:



The Hitman said:


> Some Randy Savage Memphis stuff i uploaded:
> 
> *Randy Savage Memphis Debut (1983)*
> 
> ...


Thanks for these! I have not seen them in age. I'd love a Memphis DVD set or something. 



ATF said:


> Plus, you got THIS:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn! :curry2 



ATF said:


> You're welcome. :woolcock


Thick Layla makes me happy.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ok, I'm kinda marking out because I found out that Payback's officially having


Spoiler: Payback



Sheamus/Cesaro for the US Title.


Now there's a match that single-handedly upped my interest for the PPV.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well the match has been made official on their website, so it isn't much of a spoiler.  Should be a doozy though.



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Yep, that's it, has great reviews. It's a blogspot site, I think.
> 
> EDIT: Googled it and I didn't quote right, it's actually "Undertaker really needs to stop thinking he is Helmsley and needs 20+ minutes every PPV. He really works best in 12-15 minute matches"
> 
> Flair must have come up due to being the master at performing 20+ minute matches.


Well what the hell. That's nowhere close to what you originally quoted. :lol


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Yea sorry, I had forgotten the site name, so couldn't confirm.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh whatever. 

Now the PPV doesn't look too bad. Cena/Wyatt III will be a trainwreck for sure, but Sheamus/Cesaro should be great, Barrett got something good out of RVD before and Shield/Evolution could be AMAZING if the elimination stip is given the right treatment (though I'm sure it won't and it'll just be Reigns/Evolution at the end). Plus, the predictable Paige/Alicia, Usos/Wyatts and Swagger/Rose matches shouldn't be bad either.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Yep, that's it, has great reviews. It's a blogspot site, I think.
> 
> EDIT: Googled it and I didn't quote right, it's actually "Undertaker really needs to stop thinking he is Helmsley and needs 20+ minutes every PPV. He really works best in 12-15 minute matches"
> 
> Flair must have come up due to being the master at performing 20+ minute matches.



:lmao I really don't think even ardent Hunter marks would agree that Hunter works better 20+ minute matches than Taker. You just need to have the proper opponent. I can guarantee that if Hunter had to wrestle some of the shit opponents Taker had during that time period he would have faired MUCH worse. If Taker is in the ring with a guy who can actually GO, he's the master of having 30 minute matches seem like 15 minutes because they are so entertaining.

I just watched Bret/Perfect from SS 1991 for about the 8th time. God I love this match, every single time I watch it I go in expecting to have to drop it from the perfect 5 star rating I gave it on first watch and every single time it completely exceeds expectations. I actually prefer this to the Savage/Steamboat classic at WM 3. Curt and Bret go full bore for 20+ minutes and leave you absolutely breathless for long stretches, their chemistry is just completely off the charts. So yea, still a ***** match IMHO.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Chismo said:


> I don't mind it at all, as long as *it makes some sense within a context*, and as long as it's sold sooner or later, one way or another (post-match selling FTW). Fighting through pain is something I really dig.


When the hell is that?  I mean I totally agree that a move with an injured body part can work with some post-offensive selling, but if it isn't a finisher or any kind of big move IDK why you wouldn't use the other limb. Like, if it's a punch or something. Even while selling it the wrestler kind of looks stupid. Ya have two hands, bro.

Not like it's a common thing, though.


EDIT - Don't read that quote the wrong way, the Segunda Caida guys are NOT HHH fans AT ALL.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I wonder if Payback can surprise me like last year and actually end up a really good show? Last year I looked forward to Punk returning and was my sole reason for getting it. This year he's not, but I have the network, so I'll probably watch it anyway. Cesaro and Sheamus' matches have been good, but haven't blown me away or anything. There's just something that doesn't click so well with them IMO. Knowing the in-ring talents the two of them are, I keep looking forward to their matches and it's not like any of then are bad, but they just never get to that ***3/4-**** range Id expect easily from the two of them.

Barrett/RVD... first off, I love the fact they've had beat the clock and tournament matches to determine the number 1 contender. That and the fact it's on a red hot Barrett right now makes the title more prestigious than it's been in years. As for the match, I'm not sure what to expect. Barrett/RVD's tournament match was good and vid say RvD's best singles match since returning. But it is still RVD, who's very on and off, and while Barrett has improved immensely, he's still not capable of putting together great matches on his own. That being said, I look forward to him mocking RVD's catchphrase/pose some more :lmao

Cena/Wyatt LMS... they had a great singles match and a shitty cage match, so this feels like it's going be a coin as to whether it's good or not. I'm just praying Wyatt ends up with the victory here and we close off this feud.

Shield/Evolution, with the new stip, now has all the tools to be a classic. It's now up to the 6 men to work the match as chaotically as possible and make this the classic brawl it can be, if the ending of the ER match has anything to say about. Even though the feud sucks now, I look forward to the match more than any other on the card since Bryan is out and they added the NHB elimination stip.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I have not seen them in age. *I'd love a Memphis DVD set or something*.








The rest of the set (another 9 discs, IIRC) are on his channel.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

He's saying he needs 20 minutes to produce a good match while Taker can do so in less than that. unk


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Eh, not too excited for Payback. Shield vs. Evolution with the stip SHOULD be a classic, but I see this as WWE wanting to have Reigns eliminate all of Evolution by himself or something like that. Maybe I'm just too pessimistic :side:

Definitely looking forward to Sheamus vs. Cesaro and Wyatt vs. Cena (only for comedic value for the latter). Ah well, at least the show is (kind of) free!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> The rest of the set (another 9 discs, IIRC) are on his channel.


Yeah, i was going to link to that myself. I think the main 9 discs are on YT, but not the other 7 bonus discs.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just (re)watched last week's RAW paying much closer attention. Rusev & Lana are quickly becoming one of my favorite aspects of the show, the Beat the Clock tournament totally sucked, and Cena vs. Harper was REALLY good. Like seriously, Harper was uber impressive. The final few minutes were a blast with the Usos running into Sister Abigails left and right. Also Harper throwing Cena's shoe off the stage postmatch. :lol

Payback looks good to me despite there being no Bryan on the card. Even though their Cage match sucked balls, I still think Cena/Wyatt can be something good.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Yeah, i was going to link to that myself. I think the main 9 discs are on YT, but not the other 7 bonus discs.


That set has 16 DVDs? :yum:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, listings can be found here http://bigcaldiscs.webs.com/listings/memphiscomp.html


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

What do y'all have JBL/Rey (JD 06 and NM 05) rated as? I thought the 05 bout was a nice sprint, an appetizer for what's to come with a much better story attached to it (See Judgement Day).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I honestly haven't been able to sit though JBL/Rey JD 06 since it first happened. Even when I did my 06 project I just couldn't do it. No idea why. I'll eventually watch it when I get to 06 in my PPV Rambles (you know, once I actually get back to those things lol).

Someone asked me for my Taker/Kennedy ratings?

The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Nürnberg, Germany 08/11/2006 - ****1/4 (yep, I like this one the mostest)
The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - No Mercy October 8th 2006 - ****1/4
The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - WWE Smackdown January 19th 2007 - ***3/4
The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Armageddon December 17th 2006 - ***1/2
The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Survivor Series November 26th 2006 - ***1/2


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Aye, listings can be found here http://bigcaldiscs.webs.com/listings/memphiscomp.html


Thanks brother! :hogan2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The 'other' match between the two:

*Ric Flair vs Mr.Perfect (Invasion of the Bodyslammers 01.04.1993)*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Never noticed which arm/leg is being worked on, and when it comes to being left handed/right handed....well, I really don't care. Just don't use the injured limb for offense. Hell, maybe that's why the non-dominant limb is always worked on; look at No Mercy 2002. Lesnar works on the broken hand and Taker still uses the goddamn hand to punch him.


While it's like kind of blatant on the surface, this is still passable as Taker is ravaged as fuck by the time he starts to continue using it. Like he knows he doesn't have much left to beat Brock so the hand that was broken prior to the match, had the SHOT OF ILLEGAL NUMBING SUBSTANCE (WWE writing, gasp!), got all that abuse on the hand and then still threw punches when the cast was taken off only b/c he left everything out there to pick up the win. Pretty sure he's running on adrenaline for the remainder of the match. All fine by me if it's being sold at a later juncture _(post-match, a neat point in the match, or even the following show)_ I probably could have let it bother me, but the perspective I've always viewed the match in, it never has.

And no-selling is a big no-no for me 99% of the time. There are ways of getting around it & if that's accomplished, I can go w/the flow. Doing so much bulk when working a body part for it to mean next to or exactly zilch for the finishing stretch, ok, now that can die a fiery death. Which is why I end up disliking so much from certain individuals.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Rah said:


> Of course from an insider perspective, it's a great method. As Cactus brought up, it allows for the wrestlers to work seamlessly. But, and this is the side I'm coming from, we're not insiders. Well, I'm not, anyway. It doesn't sit well with me when I see it done to the left, and the opponent makes use more-so of their right side. I've had this debate, before, with someone from a shoot background and I enjoyed their outlook on it. For wrestling, negating the attacking leg is preferential (when it's done, of course). However, in shoots, the aim is to pick off the base (non-offensive) leg, with the idea that the opponent cannot get a decent swing or strong enough balance with a half-usable limb.


Why should there be a discrepancy between wrestling and shoot? The same shoot logic holds in a match, and it becomes incumbent on the opponent to show that psychology - i.e. limping/favoring, affecting offensive comebacks, etc.

If anything working the right (strong side) should be much more difficult, with greater resistance given because its your strong side. A much more uphill battle so to speak. And also, unless your finish revolves around it, why would a competitor expend so much of their time and energy on something that only slows their opponent down but won't actually win them the match? It strains to make sense in most cases. 



> I'll never be one to demand that limbwork must have a direct payoff. That is, if the leg is worked solidly throughout, the match must end with a submission, but I do want it to play a factor into the match, at some point, and to have a context. That's the role of selling. Why does Bryan whollop Kane's left arm with kicks and kendo sticks when his offence originates solely from the right arm, and has a finisher that requires said limb? Why is Sheamus being worked over by Ambrose, to the point of limping on his left leg, only to be able to use it strongly as a base for the Brogue Kick? I'll grant those aren't the greatest examples, but they're ones fresh in memory.


With Bryan, _his_ finisher applies pressure to his opponents' *left* shoulder. With Shemus (and I assume you mean the US title match), it's a couple things:

1) the match is all of 8-9 minutes
2) Shemus does bump after the first one, sells, and doesn't look to make the cover (doesn't even seem to notice where Ambrose at first)
3) Ambrose sells to the floor, stays there until 9, and only very slowly makes his way to his feet (presumably "out on his feet")

It's not as simple a defense like with Bryan, but yeah, it's nothing that takes away the suspension for me. And never forget that there's situations where, because of time, circumstance, or level of talent/booking that limbwork pay prove futile - and there's a story in itself. it just has to be consistently reinforced one way or the other. I do know what you mean - which is what I think bigbuxxx was talking about, and I touched on above is that, in big matches against two healthy competitors of equivalent stature, limb work must lead somewhere. "To where?" is a question that can be answered several different ways convincingly, but you gotta go somewhere.



> It's not a selling discrepancy I'd hold against a match, or wrestler, because it's a fault of the medium. I'm quite honestly shocked most here didn't seem to notice the focus, either. Is it one I make a logical suspension for? Sure, but does that mean I don't find it silly? No.


I find you're pretty perceptive in actually watching and understanding what you're watching, but here it's about the fictional story and the different ways you can present the narrative. In wrestling "working to set me up later down the line" is just as good, if not better strategy than "working to slow my opponent down." 

Limbwork, generally, seems to be down in the major world promotions. 20 years ago, everybody seemed to have a limb control segment. Now, I think fans either feel like they've seen it all, or just don't have the patience for it more than once or twice a night. That helps make it more special when it happens, and becomes a more detailed focal point in the match because of it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Judgement Day 2009​
Loved/liked

- Cena/Show
-Christian/Swagger
-Punk/Umaga
- Mysterio/Jericho 

Sucked
- Benjamin/Morrison
- Orton/Batista

NO'd

Edge/Hardy

So yea CRIMINALLY underrated PPV, 4 awesome matches took place and it was a decent sounding crowd in Chicago.

Thought the Opener was awesome, Punk w/ that great pop reminded me of MITB 2011. I liked how they had the big man/little man dynamic and Punk really made Umaga look like an immoveable monster. The little details as in Punk not being able to pick up Umaga and give him a GTS were really sound. Thought Punk played in exceptionally Babyface in this one

Swagger/Christian was super, but wasnt expecting anything less. Doesnt come close to 2/24/09 or Backlash but this was awesome in itself. Liked the little cat/mouse games played at the start of it.Not much needs to be said more

Jericho/Mysterio was awesome but Ive always loved their matches outside of the EX iirc. Real sound chemistry in ring which produced IMO Jericho's best match @ the bash. Smackdown 2009 in the summer seems amazing and Ive been lookking for a torrent for weeks. IC seemed important back then which is shocking to see. Not even important just seemed like it had value which again isnt the case nowadays.

Cena/Show was amazing but again like the previous two matches, these to have awesome chemistry. These matches are Cena's bread and butter as he plays an exceptional FIP in them. Show being the monster he is made this pairing an :mark: one. :lol I remember the BL ending where he threw Cena into the lights


Rest of the show is meh/suck. Orton/batista was boring but the ending was unexpected and woke me the FUCK up. :flair 's music hit and THA NATURE Boy runs down to help out Batista, chopping/punching/woo like only he could. The Morrison match was boring and I skipped the ME because I borderline hate both men :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RVD/Sabu vs. Hayabusa/Jinsei Shinzaki - 8/2/1998 - Is that match on an official DVD release?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh yea forgot to add, that I thought the Miz/Santino Segment was one of the worst things Ive seen in Pro-wrestling and who ever signed off on Miz wearing that ring attire for that time needed to be fired ASAP


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> RVD/Sabu vs. Hayabusa/Jinsei Shinzaki - 8/2/1998 - Is that match on an official DVD release?


ECW Unreleased Vol. 1

------------

Judgment Day 2009 isn't a show I'm crazy about, but it does have some GREAT matches on it. Punk vs Umaga, Jericho vs Mysterio, & Cena vs Show. Morrison vs Shelton was pretty bad iirc. Edge vs Hardy was grating. Orton vs Batista was dull, but not like as unbearable as I sort of feared. And Christian vs Swagger is mediocre. Their weakest effort out of the bunch. Still, had at least three great matches on it. That's got to count for something.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ah thanks, knew it was on something.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Edge/Hardy was pretty good. JD 09 is probably the second best PPV that year. Or third. Ok, maybe 4 now that I remember how good NWO 09 was. Maybe not.

Judging by the fact that Paramore fan loves Undertaker, Cena, Meng, Hogan, Lawler, and Ultimo Dragon, I think he is ok with no-selling 50% of the time rather than 1%.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

What a stupid thing to say. Goes exactly to my second paragraph in my post on the topic. The only one who does any blatant no-selling and it sucks is Ultimo. Who even complains about Hogan or Cena winning in the end anymore? Why even watch wrestling if you can't suspend belief on that booking? And that's what it really comes down to w/certain individuals, booking. No selling offense to make your opponent look like shit is something way different. I shouldn't even have to make mention of it.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Ayo kids, Ultimo Dragon bashing? Better check yoself before ya wreck yoself.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like Ultimo. He gave me this:


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Ultimo could steal/copy Davey Richards move-by-move, mannerism-by-mannerism, and I'd still love him because he's Ultimo.

Btw, don't watch KENTEL's farewell match from NOAH, it'll slay your love for pro-graps.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wasn't. I know better by this point.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Watched Spring Stampede 97 yesterday. Ultimo Dragon put on my favorite cruiser match since I started at Hog Wild 96. Here's my thoughts/ratings on the show:

Ultimo Dragon vs. Rey Mysterio - ****1/4+. Sick match.

Madusa vs. Akira Hokuto - 1/4*

Steven Regal vs. Prince Iaukea (c) - *3/4

Public Enemy vs. McMichael/Jarrett - **1/4. Really don't like this Mongo/Jarrett/Debra love triangle. Just bad and has been around for four ppvs now and easily the worst part of every ppv.

Gene interview with Harlem Heat - "Hulk Hogan, we comin for you .....!!!".

Chris Benoit vs. Dean Malenko (c) - For the US belt. Was a great match until: Jackie came down and attacked Woman, Jimmy Hart came down to steal the US belt, *Eddie came out to stop Hart*, Arn came out to hit Malenko, and finally Sullivan comes down, Arn gives him permission to pass and attack, and hits Benoit hard as fuck in the head with a kendo stick. Sullivan, *Eddie*, Hart, Jackie left with the US belt. What the fuck? Not rating this one.

Rick Steiner vs. Kevin Nash (c) - This is for the tag belts. Yeah, WCW. "first time I can remember the tag titles are defended in a one-on-one match"...that's not exactly something to be proud of. Awful match and awful finish. *1/4

Booker T vs. Stevie Ray vs. Luger vs. Giant - Ok this is a four corners match for a #1 contender to Hogan's title but they come out announced as tag teams. WOAT psychology in this one. Commentary was worse as they sold Luger/Giant being more of a team saving each other rather than them saving their own chances to win. Too long, too stupid, and two stars. **

Randy Savage vs. DDP - At least this main evented over that awful four-way match. Kim and Liz at the same time at ringside :mark:.. **** Good for DDP. From the opening match at Fall Brawl 96 being a heel to facing Eddie as a heel at Starrcade and getting loud cheers to the main event a few months later.

Great opener, great main event, get rid of everything in between and it's a GOAT ppv :argh::argh::argh:. I'll give this a 3.5/10


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Edge/Hardy was pretty good. JD 09 is probably the second best PPV that year. Or third. Ok, maybe 4 now that I remember how good NWO 09 was. Maybe not.
> 
> Judging by the fact that Paramore fan loves Undertaker, Cena, Meng, Hogan, Lawler, and Ultimo Dragon, I think he is ok with no-selling 50% of the time rather than 1%.


Did you just imply that Undertaker isn't good at selling? Or are you one of those people that hates his sit up thing because you think it's no-selling? Either way, I can't agree with that. Just can't abide it. If you want to see a master class in selling a limb, Taker vs Angle at NWO 2006 is certainly it. I guess a point CAN be made that him sitting up in matches is no selling, but come on man. How can you NOT be a fan of the Deadman sitting up towards the end of the match so he can dish out more punishment? He's the Deadman for Christ sake! His gimmick implies that he has other worldly powers, he should be able to sit up without taking flack for it. Or atleast that's my story and I'm sticking to it


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Did you just imply that Undertaker isn't good at selling? *Or are you one of those people that hates his sit up thing because you think it's no-selling?* Either way, I can't agree with that. Just can't abide it. If you want to see a master class in selling a limb, Taker vs Angle at NWO 2006 is certainly it. I guess a point CAN be made that him sitting up in matches is no selling, but come on man. How can you NOT be a fan of the Deadman sitting up towards the end of the match so he can dish out more punishment? He's the Deadman for Christ sake! His gimmick implies that he has other worldly powers, he should be able to sit up without taking flack for it. Or atleast that's my story and I'm sticking to it


:argh: There are people who don't like that? That was one of my favorite spots of his, and it was great for storytelling.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Does ANYONE have a link to that fabulous Arn vs Dustin match from Saturday Night in 1993? Yeah1993 posted it once but I can't find it anymore. I've been dying to see it again.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Anyone got a list of Shields best matches, been on a bit of a kick recently...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Coolquip said:


> Anyone got a list of Shields best matches, been on a bit of a kick recently...


Best Shield matches:

1. Shield vs Hell No/Ryback TLC 2012 ****3/4
2. Shield vs Wyatt Family EC 2014 ****3/4
3. Shield vs Evolution ER 2014 ****1/4
4. Shield vs Rhodes Bros Battleground 2013 ****
5. Shield vs Hell No/Kofi Raw May 2013 ****
6. Shield vs Super Friends Elimination Chamber 2013 ****
7. Shield vs Rhodes Bros No DQ Raw 2013 ****
8. Shield vs Wyatt Family Main Event 2014 ***3/4
9. Shield vs Usos MitB 2013 ***3/4
10. Shield vs Hell No/Taker Raw 2013 ***1/2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:ti People completely missed my point.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Maybe next time make it more clearly :brodgers


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Been getting my ROH on lately. This came in the mail today! :mark: Excited to stick it in. That's what she said. :curry2 













funnyfaces1 said:


> Judging by the fact that Paramore fan loves Undertaker, Cena, Meng, Hogan, Lawler, and Ultimo Dragon, I think he is ok with no-selling 50% of the time rather than 1%.


:lol

I'm just laughing that you called him paramore fan. Made me chuckle for some reason. 

I wonder what loving Savage, Foley, Bret, Sting, DiBiase, Eddie G, Steamboat, Flair, unk4 and Jericho says about me? 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Best Shield matches:
> 
> 1. Shield vs Hell No/Ryback TLC 2012 ****3/4
> 2. Shield vs Wyatt Family EC 2014 ****3/4
> ...


A Shield set down the road could kick so much ass chronicling their rise and demise. 

:lol at Super Friends. Were they actually called that? I doubt it but funny nonetheless.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Lol no I don't believe they were actually called the Super Friends, but it just seems a very fitting name considering the names involved and how the match was built.

My favorites are Eddie G, Foley, Benoit, Vader, Taker, Bret Hart, and Mysterio. I have no clue what that says about me, other than the fact that I have some exquisite taste and therefore must be one sexy ass mofo 

That ROH set you got looks SICK. I've been meaning to watch Steen/Generico Final Battle for a while, never got around to seeing it though I've heard its tremendous. I just got my first ROH set recently, the Punk vs Joe series, and I was thrilled with it. I think I'll find the best Danielson set and get that. I'm supposing it would be too much to ask if they made a set out of his Morishima and McGuinness matches, right? That would be much to convenient.

I just watched the classic HBK/Austin vs Owen/Davey Boy tag on Raw. I have to say, this match went WAY up for me on this most recent viewing. I always thought it was really good, but also felt it got overrated by a lot of people who claimed it was one of the best Raw matches. Well not anymore, this would absolutely make my own personal top 10 for Raw, I loved everything about it. It was way more heated than I remembered, I love the 2 work overs, one on Shawn with a Austin hot tag and then one on Austin with a Shawn hot tag. That's quite an accomplishment for a match that only runs around 12 minutes or so. One of my favorite spots was when Owen does a series of chain wrestling with Shawn, and it looks like pretty standard stuff that will lead to Owen reversing Shawn and taking him down. Only instead of Owen following through with the standard sequence, he instead pops up and just rakes Shawn in the eyes. Then Shawn gets his payback on Davey boy when Davey whips Shawn into the ropes, goes for a leap frog, but Shawn stops on a dime and just gives Davey this exaggerated eye poke :lmao. I don't know why but that made me crack up, awesome stuff.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

GOAT wwe 2 vs.2 tag IMO


Need something to watch


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watch Money in the bank 2010


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

ECW Barely Legal 1997

I say a lot of about things about ECW so I feel like they deserve a chance with a full show.


_ECW Tag Team Championship Match:_
*The Dudley Boyz(c) vs. The Eliminators *

This was fun enough. The Dudleys started things off with an attack from behind and controlled the match for a little bit. It actually looked like they were close to winning in the opening minutes. That didn’t happen, The Eliminators made their comeback and proceeded to hit a bunch of really cool moves against the Dudleys for a while. before they won. Look the moves were cool but this wasn’t a very smartly worked match. No tags were made and it was just a control segment for each team. I feel like they could have done a lot more had they taken a different approach. But the at least the moves were cool.
**¾ *


*Rob Van Dam vs. Lance Storm*

This reminded me of indy wrestling that I see today. As far as I can tell they just did a bunch of moves with little rhyme or reason behind them. Everything looked fine but I was expecting something better from Lance Storm, while this is pretty much what I was expecting from RVD. It was watchable but I didn’t enjoy this is the slightest. It’s not making me think better of ECW. I want to write more but there isn’t really anything to say other than that they did a bunch of moves and hit each other with a chair.
**½* 



*The Great Sasuke, Gran Hamada, and Masato Yakushiji vs. bWo Japan (Dick Togo, Terry Boy, and Taka Michinoku)*

This was fantastic. It was contended under lucha rules so it was structured a little odd and took a while for me to get into but once I did I started to love the match. So you get your back and forth stuff at the start of the match that was really good before the BWO took control of the match. What was odd was that they didn’t isolate one person. While it seemed odd at first it worked because it was just so easy to make a tag. The BWO heeled it up and didn’t showed a blatant disregard for the rules with the constant double and triple teams. It was great and they kicked a ton of ass. What I liked about this control segment was it made you feel like they would never give up control. Like in tag matches when one guys is isolated there is always the idea that you can make the tag and things will change. That just wasn’t the case here and the entire team had to find a way to make a comeback. 

When they did the match got even better as both teams seemed to be ready to win the match at different times. The offense they did looked great aside from one ugly botch and I was on the edge of my seat the entire time. The match was a blast to watch and so easy to sit through. I don’t know if this would count as a hidden gem on the Network but I don’t remember hearing a lot about this match before and I loved it.
******



_Television Championship Match:_
*Shane Douglas(c) w/Francine vs. Pitbull #2*

I can’t say I was a huge fan of this. Part of me wanted to like it because some of the things they did, on paper, should have been good. Douglas had previously broken the neck of Pitbull #1 so his partner was out for revenge. There was a lot of focus on the neck early from both guys, which made perfect sense, but it just wasn’t that interesting to see these two wrench in headlocks. I will admit that the piledrivers were pretty good. So you also had some heel tactics from Douglas and some hardcore spots. It’s tough to say I didn’t like it because it was worked fairly well but it just wasn’t that interesting to watch. There were also a few awkward moments where it looked like they froze in the middle of the match and Douglas had to call the spot again. It was watchable but I just feel like this should have been better.Still, it lasted for a while, had some cool spots, and was smartly worked so I can’t give it that low of a rating.
**¾ *



*Taz w/Bill Alfonso vs. Sabu*

I think I know what some of the shitty indy wrestlers out there study before their matches. This was horrible. I almost turned the match off when Taz had this nice beat down segment where he picked Sabu apart like the wrestling machine that he plays. That was all pretty awesome and everything. Sabu then no sold it all, grabbed a chair, and dove over the top rope into the crowd. At that point I wanted to turn the match off but I didn’t and I regret matching the rest of this. I mean I get that it was supposed to be 2 badasses going to war and they did capture that but when I see stuff like that in a match I just get annoyed. I had a hard time paying attention after that, I think I fell asleep for a few minutes actually. I’ll give them credit because both guys looked tough but I don’t see why they had to have a match where they just did spot after spot. If I were to write a more detailed review it would just consist of me talking about when certain spots or suplexes were done. Though to their credit the suplexes and spots did look pretty good.
**¾* 



_Number One Contender’s Match_
*Stevie Richards vs. The Sandman vs. Terry Funk*

So there were some things that I really liked about this. They did stuff in the ring with all 3 guys involved which was refreshing to see. They were also able to work together more as this was elimination. But there was also a lot of stuff that I hated. OK Funk and Sandman had this long period of time where they double teamed Richards before he was eliminated. Why the 2 guys, both who were face, double teamed the smaller underdog and beat the shit out of him is beyond me. To Stevie’s credit he sold it well and it looked amazing. But I was just so annoyed that that underdog in the match just got his ass handed to him and got no offense in while this was happening. The match was also really sloppy, so many spots that just didn’t look. The crowd didn’t want to mess with Terry so they pretty much let him be and gave them a pass. And then you just had your stupid stuff. Sandman wrapped himself with barbed wire (which had streamers all got in it so instead of looking brutal he looked absurd) and climbed to the top rope. He does a fucking leg drop when it’s his upper body that’s wrapped in the barbed wire. Some stuff was good but there was just so much bad stuff here that it’s hard to get past all of that.
****



_ECW Championship Match:_
*Raven(c) vs Terry Funk*

This was really cool. Funk was just in a brutal match and was bleeding buckets so this looked like an easy win for Raven. He beats up on Funk for a while to the point where Funk looks to be absolutely finished. Then you get some interference from Raven’s Nest where it looks like they are all going to try to finish Funk and Dreamer (who was on commentary for good). The plan doesn’t go down, Dreamer takes care of the Nest and Funk pulls off a shocking victory. It was very Attitude Era like and actually reminded me of Foley’s title win a little bit. It created a cool moment and it was captivating to watch because I actually wasn’t sure what was going to happen. You could see the storyline involved and watched it all play out. It was very well done.
***¾ *​

Well there was one good match that I was glad I watched. And there was also a lot of garbage wrestling. I will admit that the main event is probably worth checking out as well because it does show you what happens when ECW does everything right. But for the most part this just wasn’t a good show and didn’t change my opinion about ECW in the slightest. I have to concede that they know how to bring in some great Japanese talent but that’s really the only compliment I can give them.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I remember Douglas/Pitbull being one of the worst matches I've ever seen.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Going to be honest. There is an accidental star on the end of that rating. Fixing it now.

It's weird because I understood why they were doing everything but it was s till boring.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Finally got around to rewatching Shield/HellNo and Ryback from over a year and a half ago and it's still amazing. Not only is it the best debut match for any team or individual that I've seen, but it's damn near perfect. Everyone did what they needed to do, and Ryback was over with the Brooklyn crowd by the time it was over. Can never get enough of Ambrose's facial expressions :lmao Amazing though that Rollins survived that fall. Dude looked like he didn't know what planet he was on after going through those tables and hitting his head on the way down.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I remember Douglas/Pitbull being one of the worst matches I've ever seen.


Yes. I watched BL a couple months ago and the match just keeps going and going with nothing interesting happening.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The saddest part is that their interaction in the fatal fourway match involving Jericho and Scorpio as well ruled. If I were to tell you that Pitbull #2 outperformed two of the best wrestlers in the world in a match, I would be looked at crazier than when I said that The Usos were better than Umaga. But wow. That BL match was lower than a DUD.

Somebody go listen to the Muhammad Hassan denouncer and watch MITB 2010. I believe a certain user here needs to catch up on 2010.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Everyone needs to watch RVD vs Bam Bam Bigelow for the ECW TV title.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

True. Just pimped that last night in the classics thread


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> Watched Spring Stampede 97 yesterday. Ultimo Dragon put on my favorite cruiser match since I started at Hog Wild 96. Here's my thoughts/ratings on the show:
> 
> Ultimo Dragon vs. Rey Mysterio - ****1/4+. Sick match.
> 
> ...


This review compared to my thoughts makes the event sound like a really good show, tbhayley. Mysterio vs Dragon & DDP vs Savage are great. I'm fine w/the Joshi match; it's decent. Then the rest...: Regal actually has a bad match & the remainder are abysmal DUDs. Words cannot express the hate I have for that excuse for a four way match. My GOD the pain. It's up there equally w/Douglas vs Pitbull #2 as some of the worst wrestling matches to ever sit through. 

Funnily enough I watched some of Barely Legal today too. RVD vs Storm is a solid exhibition match & the Michinoku Pro six man is still pretty much flawless pardon that triple team move slip up. But screw it, I don't care about that. Amazing match. Will always be. All six dudes destroy each other. Opener is a fun squash. Albeit a bit weird to book it, but oh well. Fans went nuts for everything the Eliminators did. That was pretty cool & the Eliminators were ON FIRE this night.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Yeah, I could see rating that 4 way negative stars. That was just awful. Like I mentioned, WOAT psychology and the commentators promoted it. I will be honest though, I was only half watching that match because it was boring and stupid.

Also comparing the TV title match to the TV title match from the month before makes it look A LOT better because somehow at Uncensored the crowd chanted "boring" multiple times in a Rey Mysterio match.


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

Thoughts on Flair/Vader from Starrcade '93?

It's always been one of my favorite matches, and the finish has sorta a puro feel to it. One of Flair & Vader's best matches in each of their careers. Though most of Vader's greatest matches happened in Japan but yeah.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The first time I watched it, I hated it. The second time, I loved it. There has been no third time. Vader beats up Flair for 20 minutes. Flair and Vader execute the worst roll-up in the history of wrestling and Flair wins but more important than that Vader lost after holding it for a year like that? ugh. idk, I need to watch again to get a definitive thought on it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I often use the commentary in the four way as a running gag in random discussions. "THE GIANT GREW UP BEFORE OUR EYES" Erm, what? Why did he let Luger win? It's not a tag match. The pain won't end.

Both TV championship matches suck, but I don't let some crowd chanting "boring" in anyone's match dictate how it comes off for me. I actually would say I prefer Mysterio vs Iaukea II over Regal vs Iaukea, if I had to choose. Mysterio vs Iaukea from SuperBrawl in Feb is actually good though. And then in May Regal would get Ulitmo (_as I posted a page back)_ and things would be peachy creamy among the division again. The Iaukea plan as a way to compete w/WWF's Rocky Maivia storyline. Pathetic. Especially when WCW was ahead of the game & too blind to notice WWF's own plan was backfiring on them w/Maivia. Which is why the aborted Iaukea immediately following Spring Stampede.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Watching all this WCW I realize how unrestricted the cruiserweights were. The stuff they did in 96/97 would never be allowed today. Lots of times I think they're just teasing things because it's so toned down now but they do them and every single time I just say, "holy fucking shit". They do some amazing things. Rey and Psychosis in particular but Dragon is up there to.



> And then in May Regal would get Ulitmo (as I posted a page back)


Do I have this to look forward to at the next ppv? :mark::mark:

Yeah the 4-way is just awful. They announce it as a tag. But then they allow Luger/Giant to tag in HH? wtf is that? All of that match boggles my mind.



> but I don't let some crowd chanting "boring" in anyone's match dictate how it comes off for me.


They were chanting what I thought. Prince seemed gassed after like 3 minutes and they had them go the 15 minute TL and then had an extra 3 or so minutes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cruiserweight division was no joke. Everything it's cracked up to be & not by nostalgia standards. Really were the saving grace for just about EVERY PPV they were on. Or among the best even on the stronger cards.

Yep. Regal vs Ultimo is signed, sealed, & delivered for Slamboree 1997. Which is a great show, if you ask me. I loved it. The May/June area of 1997 was like the only time Scott Hall actually put effort into his WCW tenure.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did Kamala ever have a good match in his career?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)




----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

In a mood for some Matt Hardy singles matches for some reason :lol

Recommendations? There was a time when he was one of the most consistent performers on Smackdown.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hardy v. Henry 8/19/08 and Hardy v. Finlay 11/11/08


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> In a mood for some Matt Hardy singles matches for some reason :lol
> 
> Recommendations? There was a time when he was one of the most consistent performers on Smackdown.


 


Just to name a few. These and the ones Yeah1993 posted.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Just finished the opener of Slamboree which was Regal vs. Dragon. Really good match. Love Regal's new shtick of nonchalantly moving out of the way of his opponent when they do a cross body block as he did it vs. Iaukea @ Spring Stampede. Always :mark: when Joe does this to :mark:. More thoughts after I finish the ppv.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> In a mood for some Matt Hardy singles matches for some reason :lol
> 
> Recommendations? There was a time when he was one of the most consistent performers on Smackdown.


xbnyqw

Somebody should do a Matt Hardy set. The Matt/Edge feud + all the Smackdown/ECW gems + all the PPV gems (like the Helms NM and Bourne CS matches) + the TLC stuff if you wish so = :mark:


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Hardy v. Henry 8/19/08 and Hardy v. Finlay 11/11/08





Guy LeDouche said:


> Just to name a few. These and the ones Yeah1993 posted.



Thanks guys :mark:

How was his match against Mysterio where Rey wins the Cruiserweight title? And I liked his Cage match with Edge back in the day, worth revisiting?


EDIT: Read my mind ATF, thanks :banderas


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka (November 2 Remember '99)

Fuck this was AWESOME  Really need to see more of their matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The cage vs Edge is phenomenal. Needs to be watched a hundred times. and Hardy vs Mysterio from San Diego is great.

----------

Got inspired to watch Judgment Day 2009 after briefly chatting about it. Christian vs Swagger is much better than I remember. Finish is still a bit unsmooth, but the premise of what was meant to be was fine. Kept the whole "Christian is one step ahead of Swagger in everything" story. Dunno why this seemed so mediocre to me on the last watch. At least I right'ed this wrong. Punker vs Umaga still rules. It's like Umaga vs Hardy from GAB '07, only a slightly lesser scale. But still totally awesome. Morrison vs Shelton - held up as being _bad_. Now it's a crappy Miz segment that I don't remember at all. Which is why I came online to distract myself.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Judgment Day '09 only has one GREAT match to me, Jericho/Mysterio. Punk/Umaga, Edge/Jeff and Christian/Swagger are good/alright too but not great. Cena/Show is decent but on last watch I thought it was rather boring. Need to see it again.

You should watch Cyber Sunday '08 instead. Now that's one of the most criminally underrated shows ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nice job picking a show that has a match that's worst than anything on Judgment Day 2009 in Jericho vs Batista. I'm plenty familiar w/that show. Two great matches, a good WWE Championship match and that's it. Again, standard WWE PPV 101. If we're lucky.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> The cage vs Edge is phenomenal. Needs to be watched a hundred times. and Hardy vs Mysterio from San Diego is great.
> 
> ----------
> 
> Got inspired to watch Judgment Day 2009 after briefly chatting about it. Christian vs Swagger is much better than I remember. Finish is still a bit unsmooth, but the premise of what was meant to be was fine. Kept the whole "Christian is one step ahead of Swagger in everything" story. Dunno why this seemed so mediocre to me on the last watch. At least I right'ed this wrong. Punker vs Umaga still rules. It's like Umaga vs Hardy from GAB '07, only a slightly lesser scale. But still totally awesome. Morrison vs Shelton - held up as being _bad_. Now it's a crappy Miz segment that I don't remember at all. Which is why I came online to distract myself.


Told ya it was decent, the 2/24/09 and BL match were much better but this one was good as well, I didnt think it was mediocre. C'mon man we have to agree on everything

:lol Best thing of that Miz/Santino segment was Alfonso Soriano


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah doesn't come close to their classics, but still def good. Christian in 2009. Need to make an effort and see if he had anything bad. All I got was the underwhelming meh match vs Dreamer from Night of Champions.

Cena vs Show ended and it flies on by. I really love this match; such a blast. :mark: Forgot all about the submission story thrown in. While I don't recall the Submission match on the next PPV being too special, they did a damn good job at presenting that match within the context here. More than just the domination angle on a battered Cena.

Funny to me how some say it's nothing but "Show beating up Cena till Cena hits one move and wins." Furthest thing from the truth. Heck, Umaga dominated Punk a ton more than Show dominated Cena on this same show. But heel dominates babyface & wins in the opener, ok. Heel dominates babyface & loses, and the babyface is Cena, so it's not ok. For the scenario, it's revealing.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Wrestling is heel workover and minimal face come back. How does this slip past people?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea its funny that the opener and Cena/Show had the same thing going for it, just a heel won the former. Those type of matches usually result in the face going over so i dont see the complaint, was shocked Punk lost tbh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hell if I know. Apparently a lot of people never watched a lot of goodies from the Southern Style territories.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

KingDio said:


> Thoughts on Flair/Vader from Starrcade '93?
> 
> It's always been one of my favorite matches, and the finish has sorta a puro feel to it. One of Flair & Vader's best matches in each of their careers. Though most of Vader's greatest matches happened in Japan but yeah.


Man, I'll be honest, I absolutely LOVE Vader/Flair Starrcade 1993. Either that match or SuperBrawl III vs Sting are my favorite Vader matches from his time in the US. Flair is just the best under dog in that match, and Vader absolutely PUMMELS Flair for extended periods so it's nearly impossible not to get behind the old man who is trying to have one more championship run. The roll up sucks but everything BEFORE it is nearly perfect.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Nice job picking a show that has a match that's worst than anything on Judgment Day 2009 in Jericho vs Batista. I'm plenty familiar w/that show. Two great matches, a good WWE Championship match and that's it. Again, standard WWE PPV 101. If we're lucky.


I didn't think Jericho/Batista was THAT bad, that's the one with Stone Cold as the ref, right? I thought it was okay when I watched that show last time (Show/Taker alone makes CS good, that's my favorite match of their series).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh my goodness it's horrendous. It's literally booked as a screwjob for the heel which makes zero sense. Scratch that. It doesn't even make zero sense. It's beyond sense & logic. Infamous for the garbage. Worst thing WWE produced in 2008. Easily.

Undertaker vs Show is something else though. Still torn between that or the No Mercy match at which I love the most in their series. Two completely different matches, yet fabulous all the same.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jericho/Batista being worse than anything on Judgment Day '09? If anything, it's better than 1/2 of that card :lol

I thought it was OK for how overbooked and how utterly mile-away predictable it was for me. I enjoyed the action and Jericho's heel antics. And tbh I don't see what's so wrong about faces screwing heels. Illogic yeah, but not totally wrong. But then again, I'm a fan of Independence Day (the movie) so I'm already familiar with liking goofy all over-the-place stuff 8*D


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rock & Roll Express vs. Heavenly Bodies (Loser Must Bungee Jump) (SMW 8/18/93)

Going to watch some of 1993 later, including this.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

holy crap Hardy vs Edge is even worse than I remember :lmao


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

We're calling Flair an old man in 1993? :lmao

that just goes to show you how old he was in 2008


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> holy crap Hardy vs Edge is even worse than I remember :lmao


Go watch MATT Hardy vs Edge Summerslam 2005 to cleanse your pallet. It's like 5 minutes but it's probably the best 5 minutes you are likely ever to see in wrestling. I've actually watched it 3 times in a row before because I loved it so much.

Man I'll have to watch Jericho/Batista again I REALLY didn't recall it being the worst thing ever. I just remember it being an average, run of the mill match.

Btw- has anyone else seen the "Forever Hardcore" ECW documentary? I thought it was pretty good, but I have to be honest: I actually got physically ill, like nauseous, listening to New Jack talk about cutting Mass Transit and then trying to kill that other guy in the scaffold match. He has to be one of the biggest pieces of shit I've ever encountered, it made me feel awful that a person like him exists in wrestling. How the fuck has he not been black balled out of the industry? It seems to me if you try to kill another wrestler in the ring, AND THEN ADMIT YOU WERE IN FACT TRYING TO KILL HIM, I mean how can anyone ever agree to step into the ring with him? Ugh. Like I said, it made me sick listening to him.

That shall wait though, Yeah1993 answered my prayers and sent me a link to Arn/Dustin Saturday Night so I get to experience 20 minutes of bliss.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Christian in 2009. Need to make an effort and see if he had anything bad.


Last year I watched every match he had in the year up until December, with the exception of maybe three matches I couldn't find. Didn't see a bad match.



The Hitman said:


> Rock & Roll Express vs. Heavenly Bodies (Loser Must Bungee Jump) (SMW 8/18/93)
> 
> Going to watch some of 1993 later, including this.


Did you get the yearbook? Watch Jim Cornette v. Cowabunga the Turtle. And the promo where Dick Murdoch says everything in the world revolves around Texas. And Jim Cornette v. Cowabunga the Turtle.

edit - aw crap, should have told him to watch Cornette/Cowabunga. Hope he hasn't read this post before the edit.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The topic came up recently about how in the States guys always work the left side of the body. Well, there are always exceptions to every rule, cause Dustin is working over Arns RIGHT leg in this match, and Arn is selling it splendidly by the way. Splendid is an understatement, it looks like he's damn near crippled the way he's hobbling around. God I love this fucking match.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I hate every single Jeff/Edge match - rumble, JD and ladder.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> My favorites are Eddie G, Foley, Benoit, Vader, Taker, Bret Hart, and Mysterio. I have no clue what that says about me, other than the fact that I have some exquisite taste and therefore must be one sexy ass mofo
> 
> That ROH set you got looks SICK. I've been meaning to watch Steen/Generico Final Battle for a while, never got around to seeing it though I've heard its tremendous. I just got my first ROH set recently, the Punk vs Joe series, and I was thrilled with it. I think I'll find the best Danielson set and get that.


That is a fun game sometime. Let's psychoanalyze each other by our favorite rasslers. :clap

I have all 3 of those Joe/Punk matches (thanks Seabs) but want to get that dvd for the shoot. I probably will at some point. 

I have all 3 of the :bryan3 ROH sets....American Dragon, World Champion and Final Countdown....all are great....Just got the last 2 a few weeks ago. The American Dragon one kicks so much of the ass. 

I dig the Steen set so far. I heard the E signed him or they are flirting with him at least? God I hope so. 




MyNameIsJonMarston said:


>


Oh fun. I will have to watch this. Kamala legit scared the shit out of me when I was a kid.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> I hate every single Jeff/Edge match - rumble, JD and ladder.


I thought Rumble was pretty good but didn't like the other two. 

I never cared for Jeff or Matt much.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Did you get the yearbook? Watch Jim Cornette v. Cowabunga the Turtle. And the promo where Dick Murdoch says everything in the world revolves around Texas. And Jim Cornette v. Cowabunga the Turtle.
> 
> edit - aw crap, should have told him to watch Cornette/Cowabunga. Hope he hasn't read this post before the edit.


Yeah mate, i have the Yearbook. Ill have to watch that lol. Tar.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Screw it, gave HBK vs Jericho @ WM 19 the full five stars. Love everything about it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Did you get the yearbook? Watch Jim Cornette v. Cowabunga the Turtle. And the promo where Dick Murdoch says everything in the world revolves around Texas. And Jim Cornette v. Cowabunga the Turtle.
> 
> edit - aw crap, should have told him to watch Cornette/Cowabunga. Hope he hasn't read this post before the edit.


Just watched it. :lol Fucking awesome, Cornette really worked better than alot of wrestlers, just a fun, fun match. I gotta upload it for everyone, and y'all better fucking watch it too.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Funny to me how some say it's nothing but "Show beating up Cena till Cena hits one move and wins." Furthest thing from the truth. Heck, Umaga dominated Punk a ton more than Show dominated Cena on this same show. But heel dominates babyface & wins in the opener, ok. Heel dominates babyface & loses, and the babyface is Cena, so it's not ok. For the scenario, it's revealing.


Not that I have a problem with Cena/Show (I just like messing with you), but I don't see what the hypocrisy is here. It's not just because it's Cena. For most folks, it just seems to dampen all the work done by the heel if they lose due to a very small comeback that is not nearly as impactful or as impressive as the heel's workover. With Punk/Umaga, Punk losing IS the major difference. He tried to come back, but the heel's workover was so dominant that he ended up succumbing in the end. That's a very logical story. Again, I like Cena/Show, but some people may feel that Cena's comeback was not enough to warrant a victory, especially after Big Show spent the entire match beating the shit out of him. Now nobody is asking Cena to do Randy Orton's dominant face shtick where he gives absolutely nothing to the heel a la Summerslam 2011, but sometimes an Attitude Adjustment just isn't enough to warrant an entire match where he kicks out of wrestler's best shots and it certainly doesn't help make the heel look good as well as the heel actually winning like in the opener. Huge difference between the two cases.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Jim Cornette vs Cowabunga (Smokey Mountain Wrestling 08.19.1993)*



WATCH THIS FUCKING MATCH NOW!!!!!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> That is a fun game sometime. Let's psychoanalyze each other by our favorite rasslers. :clap
> 
> I have all 3 of those Joe/Punk matches (thanks Seabs) but want to get that dvd for the shoot. I probably will at some point.
> 
> ...




The shoot is absolutely worth the price of the set alone. Not only is it awesome having them discuss the 3 matches in depth for over an hour, they then spend ANOTHER hour telling some of the funniest fucking stories I've ever heard. Those two guys have great chemistry both in the ring and with a microphone stuck in their face. I had no idea Samoa Joe is as funny as he is, and I DEFINITELY didn't realize Punk is fucking hilarious. All you ever hear about Punk is that he's kind of an asshole in real life, but he has some of the funniest jokes and stories you will hear come from a wrestler.

I'm gonna have to look into getting that American Dragon set in the near future.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Shield/Hell No & Ryback - ****3/4
Shield/Wyatts - ****1/2
Shield/Evolution - ****1/2
Shield/Cena, Ryback, Seamus - ****1/4
Shield/Hell No & Kofi - ****1/4 

Miz/Morrison (FCA, Raw 2011) - ****
Brock/HHH (Cage) - ****1/4
Orton/Christian (OTL) - ****3/4
HHH/Flair (Cage) - ****3/4

I watched a bunch of stuff today. Lots of starz.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

I miss Morrison.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Morrison and Mcintyre had some awesome matches together, on SD and Superstars. Mcintyre also had some good matches with Trent Barretta on Superstars I think.

Really hope he gets another decent shot at the midcard once 3MB's over. I do enjoy 3MB greatly but as long as Slater's there, Mcintyre can be replaced in the group.


----------



## Pharmakon (Jan 20, 2014)

The dancer that appeared on the beginning of Bray Wyatt's Entrance kinda looked like Alicia Fox, probably it was her sister. Anyways wonder if the WWE will have Women's Tag Team Champions, The Fox Sisters will be a great team.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

*Payback 2013​*
Decided to rewatch this event in full with the second incarnation coming one week from today. I don't remember disliking Punk/Jericho, just thinking that it felt strange. We'll see how I feel on the rewatch. Think I actually missed the first half of this show when it first aired, as I don't remember the opener at all. 

*Miz vs Curtis Axel vs Wade Barrett - Intercontinental Title Match*

Miz fpalm Axel :lmao Barrett :mark Axel had scored wins over Cena and Triple H :lmao Hot start to this match, but I can't buy Miz as the asskicking face. He's just the worst. Barrett should really keep the big boot. What a great match! Terrific action between the three, and a unique ending. Pretty cool to see Chicago mark out for Axel winning. He most certainly won that crowd over as that match went on. ****1/2*

Mark Henry video package :mark: 

Axel and Heyman run into Triple H backstage. Vince :lmao This guy needs to be on television. Thank God they turned Triple H heel. 

*Kaitlyn vs AJ - Divas Championship*

The secret admirer angle :lmao Big E :lmao This match is okay. I think I remember people pimping it heavily at the time it aired, but I'm not blown away by it or anything. :lmao at Layla coming out to comfort Kaitlyn after she lost. Even more :lmao at the Divas trying to comfort Kaitlyn backstage. Layla should have kicked her head in. ***1/2*

The expert panel :lol Big Show, R-Truth, and Cody's mustache :lol

Wyatt Family promo :mark: This reminds me a lot of True Detective, actually. The backdrop, I mean, and Wyatt/Harper walking around in the background. That first promo they were airing was pretty good. 

*Kane vs Dean Ambrose - United States Championship*

That pop for Ambrose :mark: I like the match okay. It's not exciting or anything, but Ambrose's methodical style isn't very exciting. The commentary was less interested in putting over Ambrose than they were trying to put over the United States title but reading off the roster of wrestlers that have held the belt. I'll never understand what WWE thinks they're going to accomplish by just putting over the belt instead of trying to put over the champion, or the guys trying to become champion. It's just lazy. Wow, is that match just not very good. ****

RVD promo. Meh. At least Chicago seemed to be excited for him.

*Alberto Del Rio vs Dolph Ziggler - World Heavyweight Title* 

This match :mark: It's still pretty great for me. They worked the concussion story right in to the match, and Dolph sold it wonderfully. Del Rio was spot on, slowly turning from the good guy that was looking to get revenge on the man who cashed in his MITB briefcase into the sadistic heel that took advantage of his adversary's injury, and literally kicked his way to the World title. AJ deserves a mention as well. She sold those kicks just as well as Dolph did and showed legitimate concern for Dolph. *****1/4*

*CM Punk vs Chris Jericho*

Yeah, it still feels strange to me. I don't dislike the match, but I have a difficult time enjoying it. Part of it is likely my fatigue at the moment. If Chicago hadn't been "Chicago", I might have fallen asleep. I don't buy the ring rust story that some have claimed. Jericho kicking out of the GTS after it looked to be hit pretty well was also kind of strange. Match just seems very average with a hot crowd. *****

*Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton vs Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns - Tag Team Titles*

Continuing with the "about every other match is good" gimmick that this show seems to have. Fantastic story of Bryan/Orton not totally being ont he same page, but Rollins and Reigns clicking completely. :mark: for the tiger suplex from the top rope. ****3/4*

*Ryback vs John Cena - WWE Title*

I don't really care for him, but poor Ryback. The guy couldn't win the title as a face or heel, though I think his booking against Cena was worse. I'm not sure why we were supposed to take Ryback seriously as a threat to the title when he never won on PPV at all, sketchy finishes or not. Pretty sure that Henry was supposed to be facing Cena during this time, but due to injury the feud was pushed back to MITB. Ryback calling himself Lucifer in that promo :lmao Lumberjack match in a PPV main event fpalm 

Randomly noticed Alex Riley and his "Say it to my face" shirt :lmao I wonder if guys like Khali, Ryder, and Riley were excited about getting on the PPV, or if they were like, "Fuck, I've gotta go to work and stand around." Amazing how this crowd could so silent so quickly. 

After Cena hit the splash from the top, I started playing Bejeweled. Ryback wins the first fall. No one gives a shit. But CAN CENA OVERCOME THE ODDS? 

My main issue with this is that they hot shotted the feud to gimmick matches. I think the intial story was that Ryback complained about Cena not being there for him when the Shield was owning him, which is :lmao for someone who's supposed to be a monster. Last Man Standing match being their first match was kind of silly, really. They could have just had a straight no holds barred match and had the same ending. Three Stages of Hell (especially in 2013) wasn't going to work. It didn't work in 2002 or 2009, 
but that's a different story obviously. 

While I was typing that, Cena put Ryback through the table. Still can't find a fuck to give. They brawl outside the ring after the second fall, but the third fall doesn't officially start until the two guys are back in the ring. Okay then. 

This is legit one of the stupuidest things I've ever seen in wrestling. Oh, Cena AA'd Ryback through the top of the ambulance. Something to be said for powering through that. ***


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

What's all this talk about making heels look bad? :cena4


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Hitman said:


> Just watched it. :lol Fucking awesome, Cornette really worked better than alot of wrestlers, just a fun, fun match. I gotta upload it for everyone, *and y'all better fucking watch it too.*





The Hitman said:


> WATCH THIS FUCKING MATCH NOW!!!!!



Listen to this man.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

How are the 4 way tag team matches from WMXX?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Not very good at all iirc, just ways to get guys on the card


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Yikes, both defenders retained.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Which Cena/Khail is the good one ?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

both good in my book but the superior is Judgement Day.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

NAITCH said:


> Which Cena/Khail is the good one ?


Judgment Day and SNME. One Night Stand match is pretty boring. And SNME is only there because it's a squash.

Cowabunga/Cornette is as good as advertised. Actually, better. Go watch it instead of Cena/Khali.

Gonna go back to watching 2005, starting from the 2/17 edition. I'm glad to know that I'm not crazy for thinking that Angle/Rey in Japan wasn't that good. Really like this Batista/Evolution saga, even if I hate all parties involved (well except :flair).

EDIT: :lmao Spike Dudley was a heel? And why the hell are divas randomly interfering what was on its way to be a pretty good cruiserweight tag match? :lol at this Pulp Fiction WM commercial.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Crusierweight turmoil from WMXX is well booked and plain fun, doesn't deserve the heavy flak. Speaking of crusierweights, I thought WWE was going to start something regarding Rey's two losses at Wrestlemania and progress it as an annual thing, thankfully they rectified those losses and didn't start anything of the such with Rey defeating Eddie at WM21. I digress.......

What match between Rey and Chavo is the best? NWO? GAB? Their latter matches about/for Eddie?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I remember Spike being and awesome heel on 2004 PPVs. SummerSlam or Unforgiven or Survivor Series or all of them w/e.

GAB 04 is the best Rey/Chavo.

Cornette/Cowabunga fanwagon!? :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Crusierweight turmoil from WMXX is well booked and plain fun, doesn't deserve the heavy flak. Speaking of crusierweights, I thought WWE was going to start something regarding Rey's two losses at Wrestlemania and progress it as an annual thing, thankfully they rectified those losses and didn't start anything of the such with Rey defeating Eddie at WM21. I digress.......
> 
> What match between Rey and Chavo is the best? NWO? GAB? Their latter matches about/for Eddie?


GAB 2004 was EXCELLENT. That's the best match of Chavos career IMO. 

Has anyone else seen the Jumbo Tsuruta vs Terry Funk 2/3 Falls match for AJPW in 1976? I decided to binge on Funk today (one of the better decisions a man can make) and came across this masterpiece. I had never seen a Jumbo match, all I knew about him was that he was trained by the Funks and that a lot of people consider him one of the all time greats. This match probably isn't for everyone, as it starts off rather slow and has Funk working a way more mat/submission oriented style than I'm used to seeing from him. This just goes to show why Funk has to be right near or at the top of anyone's GOAT list: he has successfully worked just about every single style of wrestling there is. There really isn't anything the Funker CANT do. Middle aged and crazy Funk from the 80s is my favorite iteration of him, but it was just awesome seeing him work these long, drawn out mat sequences with Jumbo. The second fall is won by Funk and it's seriously one of the coolest things I've ever seen. I can't even describe what it was you'd just really have to see it for yourself, it's like what Taz sometimes called an egg roll only different. They also work this AWESOME Greco roman knuckle lock sequence for about 5 minutes near the start that is just riveting to watch. A monumental struggle is the best way to describe it. This is probably one of the 30-40 best matches I've ever seen. A true masterwork of classic wrestling.

One of the other Funk matches I watched was the Funk/Dreamer vs Edge/Foley tag from ONS 2006. Funk steals the show again here with his selling and antics, especially when he's thrown in the barb wire and then viciously attacked by Mick. Seeing Funk quiver and scream on the apron was one of the goosebumps inducing moments you never forget. Funk just does things with his selling that NO ONE else does, like when he's begging and pleading for Cactus Jack to stop hitting him "Mick, my eye, please Mick no don't do that you're hurting me!" I mean who says that stuff? More to the point, who says that stuff and has it come across as awesome? Can you imagine Cena laying in a pool of blood an begging Brock to stop hitting him? That would NEVER get over, but Funk does it and it breaks your heart. I've always said Ric Flair is the undisputed GOAT, but man the more I watch of Funk the more I want to say he and Ric are 1a and 1b for best ever. If Funk had a long run at the top with 1 company like Ric did with WCW/Crockett in the 1980s, maybe he would be more widely considered the greatest. But hat just wasn't the Funkers style and maybe that's for the better. It's always cooler how Funk would just show up in different territories like the bad ass bandit in the old westerns ready to give the top baby face hell.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You made an excellent choice of dedicating your day to Terry Funk. I'm watching No Way Out 2005 and I can't find anything redeemable about it. Even JBL/Show wasn't that good. The highlight of the show is Batista hitting a spinebuster after that overrated main event. And that Cena/Angle match...what the hell was that supposed to be?

Have you checked out Harley Race vs. Terry Funk in Canada?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

1983-era Terry Funk is possibly the best babyface worker of all time. Practically any time Terry Funk was a heel he was a contender for greatest heel worker of all time. Overall, he's pretty obviously a contender for single greatest wrestler of all time. And I still think Cornette/Cowabunga should be watched first.


Best Chavo match to me is v. Evan Bourne 10/14/08.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Watched most of Extreme Rules 2009 today and man is that show pretty awful, that Punk/Umaga strap match fpalm


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Yeah, the show is terrible outside the superb Rey/Jericho match and Punk's cash in.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Extreme Rules 2009. That Cena/Show match :fpalm. That Batista/Orton match :lol And Hardy/Edge was a total mess. Thank goodness that the ending of that bad PPV ruled. One of the greatest endings of all-time.

:lmao the 2/24/05 edition of Smackdown was based on Teddy Long having to deliver a show good enough for him to keep his job. And it fucking sucked! Man should have gotten fired on the spot and we wouldn't have to experience his drivel for years to come, but Linda McMahon somehow saw something good in JBL/Jordan vs. Cena/Show.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> You made an excellent choice of dedicating your day to Terry Funk. I'm watching No Way Out 2005 and I can't find anything redeemable about it. Even JBL/Show wasn't that good. The highlight of the show is Batista hitting a spinebuster after that overrated main event. And that Cena/Angle match...what the hell was that supposed to be?
> 
> Have you checked out Harley Race vs. Terry Funk in Canada?


I actually really really dig Show/JBL Barbwire cage. Brutal, nasty, and tons of fun. Love how JBL ends up winning too, cracked me up.

Haven't seen Funk/Race in Canada, or anywhere for that matter. This is probably shameful, I know, but I've only ever seen 1 Harley Race match, the Flair for the Gold Starrcade 1983 Cage match with Ric. Is this Race match in Canada easy to find?



Yeah1993 said:


> 1983-era Terry Funk is possibly the best babyface worker of all time. Practically any time Terry Funk was a heel he was a contender for greatest heel worker of all time. Overall, he's pretty obviously a contender for single greatest wrestler of all time. And I still think Cornette/Cowabunga should be watched first.
> 
> 
> Best Chavo match to me is v. Evan Bourne 10/14/08.


Any particular matches from 1983 that stick out in your mind that I should check out? I'm extending my Funk binge into tomorrow, I watched like 8-9 of his matches today and I'm not even close to being burned out on him. I don't even think it's possible to get burned out on Funk.

And I've never seen that Chavo/Bourne match, I'll have to change that, but it doesn't surprise me he would have excellent chemistry with Bourne. Jericho and Chavo put Bourne over HUGE when Chavo came on Talk is Jericho, they both said Bourne is likely the closest thing we will ever see to another Mysterio, while also acknowledging that there will never be another like Rey. I've probably seen around 15 or so Bourne matches and all of them are in the good-great range. Really love his Fatal Fourway 2010 match with Jericho.

Speaking of Jericho, I just watched yesterday the COTC XXXV match he had with Eddie. Short, AWESOME little sprint with Eddies heel antics of course being the major highlight. This took place right before their classic at Fall Brawl.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The opener for the US Title is hilarious :lmao


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Batista/Orton had a good match in 2005 for Rumble title position against Triple H. However, their chemistry in 2009/2010 is wrestlecrap worthy.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Any particular matches from 1983 that stick out in your mind that I should check out? I'm extending my Funk binge into tomorrow, I watched like 8-9 of his matches today and I'm not even close to being burned out on him. I don't even think it's possible to get burned out on Funk.


There's a stretch in AJPW where he feuds with Hansen and Brody, and teams with Dory in some pretty epic tag matches. You're on to something with Terry - he knows every trick, and shows a couple every match. Little things that keeps your eyes focused on him. The selling, the expression, stuff like that Rolling Cradle he put on Jumbo (thanks - rewatched it b/c I haven't seen it in ages and it had me :mark: @ 2am at the house like it was WMXXX). Who does that?!

He's got a spot w/Hansen where he does the classic "use your opponent to pull yourself up off the mat" but grabs hold of Hansen's knee pad and just _yoinks_ him to his back. Great stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Extreme Rules 2009 was really poor. Botch heavy mess of a four way opener. Definitive DUD w/the WWE Championship match. Terrible booking decision. Batista is injured, Orton has momentum; may as well have Batista squash him and just be written off the next night. wtf? RAW in 2009, yikes. Punk vs Umaga was a joke. Punk's facial expressions the entire match tell you that's the truth. Hardy vs Edge have an unfathomable farce of a ladder match. ECW triple threat was mediocre, had some awkward pauses & a bit too reliant on weapon spots rather than making use of the talent involved.

Jericho vs Mysterio was MOTN, but it's not a great match like once thought. Still enjoy it a ton and it's really good, but the Judgment Day match is above it; story was better throughout it. Thought Jericho could have torn at the mask a bit more in this one. Mysterio actually was the catalyst for using the No Holds Barred stip better than Jericho. I use "actually" b/c how often has Rey done some good brawling? Not much. Not even in the blood feud vs Chavo. Or even vs Eddie. Going ape for the first few minutes was awesome. Chemistry continues to play off each other and it's a hoot.

Cena vs Show was what I remember, above average at most. It did have some things that hurt it from being good, which if fixed would have been a better follow up to the great match from Judgment Day. Thought Show should have been more focused on only using his Camel Clutch Backbreaker submission to destroy Cena. Instead on most chances he locked on whichever random submission he found an opening for. Didn't think that should have been done the entire match. Maybe once or twice, like the bearhug spot was good, and then save the rest for working on the back and then continuously going for his patented submission. Akin to Cena constantly trying for his signature hold, STF. They didn't need to let him use the knockout punch just to tease a random dramatic spot at the end. Especially when they knew the finish was coming up right after that. It didn't do Show's move any favors. Finish is a bit flat. I don't hate it in the vein of "lol, cena w/one hold and wins" b/c Show was trapped and fading. It looked credible. But yeah, no denying when it happened there was no spark. Show was stuck in that position that you knew it was over. Oh well. At least it was one of the things on the show that wasn't ugh. Still, when I'm picking a match to talk about and it's nothing THAT special (or "good") you know the show is a bit of a bust. 

The cash-in was good. Small package tease that Punk would lose owned. Hardy had a better match w/Punk in one minute than he had three times over w/Edge on PPV in 2009. Thank all that is good in the world of wrestling that Hardy got paired w/Punker for the remainder of his career, b/c his 2009 PPV stretch up until then was very bad.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You didn't like the Hardy Boyz WM match? I thought everybody here loved it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never said I didn't.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Has anyone else seen the Jumbo Tsuruta vs Terry Funk 2/3 Falls match for AJPW in 1976?


Hell to the fuck yes. One of my favourite matches ever.




The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Any particular matches from 1983 that stick out in your mind that I should check out?



Stan Hansen Vs Terry Funk (April 1983) - fuck it, watch 'em all!
Funkers Vs Hansen & Brody (April 1983)
Bockwinkel Vs Funk (??? 1983) - they had good tags in the previous decade/years which might be better face Funk performances, though
Funkers Vs Terry Gordy & Stan Hansen (August 1983) - Terry Funk's (first) retirement
Funkers Vs Chosu & Yatsu (1985) - k, it's not 83, but Funk retired in that year, and he comes back to face RIKI CHOSHU


As for his heel work, go sit through his Lawler and Flair ('89) feuds. Then watch Funk run a 10-minute NWA sprint against Eddy Guerrero from '89, too. Love that man for trying so hard in bringing Eddy to America.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Everyone needs to see that Funk/Eddie match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was gonna watch Funk vs Jumbo for the hell of it b/c that's what anyone should do, and then I realized Dailymotion is still being gash w/my internet connection. Gonna go sulk endlessly.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

No excuses!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I really need to watch some Funk matches sometime, i swear i saw him do a moonsault once (may have been mistaken). I do have that massive GH comp that Cal has, i do need some essential matches to watch.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Hitman said:


> I do have that massive GH comp that Cal has, i do need some essential matches to watch.


I really need it 

I still have to get the Eddie one off GH, but I'm broke as all hell. $100 per comp, while reasonable, isn't something I have lying around for wrestling.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> I really need to watch some Funk matches sometime, i swear i saw him do a moonsault once (may have been mistaken). I do have that massive GH comp that Cal has, i do need some essential matches to watch.


He did quite a few in ECW.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Can anyone recommend any Faces Of Fear tag matches?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

vs. McMichael & Benoit @ Halloween Havoc 96


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> vs. McMichael & Benoit @ Halloween Havoc 96


 Ill check that out later. Just watching Benoit/Austin (05/31/2001), then ill watch a couple of Hollywood Blondes matches.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Looking at the fav street fight thread, it seems a lot of people rate Shane/Angle highly. I imagine it'd be the complete opposite here.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only the insane think it's a bad match (8*D) .

I love it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Awesome tag match for those who havn't seen it. 

Hollywood Blonds vs. Marcus Bagwell & 2 Cold Scorpio (WWW 5/8/93) is next on my watch list.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Sure, Funk is the shit, but Hansen's performance in this match is GOATworthy:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks for that, ill watch that in abit. Also going to check these FOF matches out too:

10/27/1996 – Helloween Havoc: Chris Benoit & Steve McMichael vs The Faces of Fear 
10/14/1997 – Fall Brawl: Mortis & Wrath vs The Faces of Fear 
11/23/1997 – World War 3: The Faces of Fear vs Glacier & Ernest “The Cat” Miller
02/24/1997 - WCW Nitro: Eddy Guerrero and Chris Jericho vs The Faces of Fear


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Looking at the fav street fight thread, it seems a lot of people rate Shane/Angle highly. I imagine it'd be the complete opposite here.


It's genuinely my least favourite match ever. I make imaginations come TRUE.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Why didn't I see that coming?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

On the Savage/Hart vs HBK/Flair match on the Savage DVD, did they have to re-record the commentary, or dub some on as JR wasn't with the WWF then and it sounds wierd, like out of a video game.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

What the hell is wrong with the Angle/Shane street fight? Just curious if you don't like it why don't you like it? I think it's great. It's true! :angle2 




MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> How are the 4 way tag team matches from WMXX?


All sorts of clusterfucky. Fun when you are drunk IIRC. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> You made an excellent choice of dedicating your day to Terry Funk.


Always a good idea. My Dad was never as into wrestling as me but he loved Terry Funk. Watching the I Quit match with him and Flair when I was 9 was a really fun moment of my childhood. He let me stay up late to watch. This is coming home with me sometime from High Spots. Just look at this listing!!! :mark: Funk and DiBiase on the SAME TEAM? :mark: :mark: 










Travel around the world with the wild & crazy Terry Funk! This six disc collection brings you some of hisclassic bouts throughout his career in Japan, Puerto Rico, & the United States!
SINGLES
Terry Funk vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (06/11/76)
Terry Funk vs. Abdullah the Butcher (07/18/79)
Terry Funk vs. Tor Kamata (12/03/79)
Terry Funk vs. Dory Funk Jr. (04/30/81)
TAG TEAM

Terry & Dory Funk Jr. vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Rocky Hata (12/2/77)
Terry & Dory Funk Jr. vs. The Shiek & Abdullah the Butcher in a best two out of three falls match (7/15/79)
Terry & Dory Funk Jr. vs. Abdullah The Butcher & The Sheik (12/13/79)
Terry Funk & Ted Dibiase vs. Abdullah The Butcher & Ray Candy (05/01/80)
Terry & Dory Funk Jr. vs. Harley Race & Dick Slater (12/09/82)
Terry & Dory Funk Jr. vs. Stan Hanson & Terry Gordy (08/31/83)
PUERTO RICO

Terry Funk vs. Barry Windham (1986 Universal Champion Tournament Quaterfinals)
Terry Funk vs. Rick Martel (1986 Universal Champion Tournament Semifinals)
Terry Funk vs. Carlos Colon (1986 Universal Champion Tournament Finals)
Terry & Dory Funk Jr. vs. The Road Warriors
Terry Funk vs. TNT
Terry & Dory Funk Jr., and Ron Starr vs. Invader I, Invader III, and Mil Mascaras
HARDCORE

Terry Funk vs. Atsushi Onita (Barbedwire Exploding Ring Death Match, 5/5/93)
Terry Funk vs. Mr. Pogo (Electrified Barbed Wire Rope, Exploding Barbed Wire Pit Death Match , Pogo hurts himself legitly and can not continue)
Terry Funk & Hiroshi Ono vs. Shoji Nakamaki & Nobutaka Araya (Fire Death Match, 11/13/94)
Terry Funk vs. Leatherface (Steel Cage Match,11/17/94)
Terry Funk vs. Leatherface (Barbed Wire and Chain, 1995)
Terry Funk vs. Tiger Jeet Singh (Glass and Barbed Wire, 1995)
Terry Funk vs. Cactus Jack (No Rope, Electrified Barbed Wire Explosion, 1995)
Terry Funk & Mr. Pogo vs. Masato Tanaka & Hayabusa (No Rope Explosive Barbed Wire Time Bomb Land Mine Double Hell Death match, 5/5/96)
Terry Funk vs. Hiromichi Fuyuki (Loser Leaves Match, 9/27/97)
LEGEND

Terry Funk vs. Bret Hart
Terry & Dory Funk Jr. vs.Yoshinori Sasaki & Naohiko Yamazaki (11/23/99)
Terry Funk & Heath Herring vs. Satoshi Kojima & Hiroshi Hase (01/19/03)
Bonus Footage:

Terry Funk NWA Legends Fanfest Q&A Preview
Full Case of Tales with Terry Funk & Harley Race Preview
INDYS

Terry Funk vs. Hawk (1993)
Terry Funk vs. Doug Gilbert (Chain Match, 3/13/1997)
Terry Funk, Ian Rotten & Danny Daniels vs. Chris Candido, Steve Stone & BJ Whitmer (12/12/04)
Terry Funk vs. Dusty Rhodes (Texas Bunkhouse Falls Count Anywhere Match, 05/07/05)
Terry Funk vs. Dustin Rhodes with special referee Mick Foley (11/19/05)
Terry Funk vs. Dusty Rhodes (Cage Match, 12/03/05)

I also just discovered a best of Kings of Wrestling set on the ROH website! :mark: 




The Hitman said:


> On the Savage/Hart vs HBK/Flair match on the Savage DVD, did they have to re-record the commentary, or dub some on as JR wasn't with the WWF then and it sounds wierd, like out of a video game.


Yes. I have noticed this as well. I love the match but something weird is going on there. I can't say a bad word about this set though. Mostly because I get to look at my next ex wife Maria for so long. :ex:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> Hell to the fuck yes. One of my favourite matches ever.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot for the recs man. I don't know if I found the right Funk/Guerrero match though. You said it was 10 minutes and the one I found is only 5. It has Eddie trying a bunch of high risk maneuvers every single time he gets a chance. Lots of drop kicks, a nice head scissors take over, a diving cross body, etc. Funk pile drives Eddie on the mats outside for the finish. Is that the one you were talking about??


The Hitman said:


> On the Savage/Hart vs HBK/Flair match on the Savage DVD, did they have to re-record the commentary, or dub some on as JR wasn't with the WWF then and it sounds wierd, like out of a video game.


I've noticed something odd as well. If you google "Bret Hart vs 123 Kid" a match pops up that has JR and some other guy doing commentary, and it edits out the false finish with Kid having his foot on the ropes. Then when you go on the Network, it has the original commentary with JR an Savage and they keep everything as it was originally. Anyone know why they dubbed Savages commentary and cut the false finish? That match is roughly twice as good without the edits, now that they have uploaded it to the Network I finally saw it in full and it's one of my favorite matches, before I just thought it was really really good.


Is there anyone else out there the prefers the 2 Funk/Flair matches to the 3 Steamboat/Flair matches from 1989? I'm not saying the Funk matches are flat out BETTER, I just enjoy them more. Flair is just tremendous as a baby face, every bit as good as Steamboat was in their series, and Funk just takes being a psychotic heel to a whole nother level.

Edit-

THIS FUCKING MATCH :mark: :mark: If this is the one you were talking about Rah, then holy shit thank you this is absolutely amazing. Hansen is freaking monster (that spot where he wraps the rope around Funks neck and drags him back into the ring? Jesus), and the face performance from Funk here is perfection


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Thanks a lot for the recs man. I don't know if I found the right Funk/Guerrero match though. You said it was 10 minutes and the one I found is only 5. It has Eddie trying a bunch of high risk maneuvers every single time he gets a chance. Lots of drop kicks, a nice head scissors take over, a diving cross body, etc. Funk pile drives Eddie on the mats outside for the finish. Is that the one you were talking about??
> 
> 
> I've noticed something odd as well. If you google "Bret Hart vs 123 Kid" a match pops up that has JR and some other guy doing commentary, and it edits out the false finish with Kid having his foot on the ropes. Then when you go on the Network, it has the original commentary with JR an Savage and they keep everything as it was originally. Anyone know why they dubbed Savages commentary and cut the false finish? That match is roughly twice as good without the edits, now that they have uploaded it to the Network I finally saw it in full and it's one of my favorite matches, before I just thought it was really really good.


This is the one i think:






Im sure the 123 Kid/Bret match is on one of Bret's sets isn't it? Ill have to check and see if it is edited, never heard of that before.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

The Midnight Express vs The Fantastics @ COTC 1988 is absolute greatness. Easily one of the best TT matches of all time.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Before you further indulge in some Terry Funk, I demand you to watch Cowabunga/Cornette.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Before you further indulge in some Terry Funk, I demand you to watch Cowabunga/Cornette.



Alright alright sheesh 

I actually had Backlund/Patera Texas Death Match queued up but I'll put that on hold for a moment and watch this nonsense you keep babbling about


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Speaking of Cornette, he was gold in the match I just plugged.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

That Funk/Hansen match may just be my personal MOTD. Absolutely adore it, although I really need to watch more 80's stuff before I can throw MOTYs and MOTDs around. Bless my ignorance.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Before you further indulge in some Terry Funk, I demand you to watch Cowabunga/Cornette.


YES, fucking do this. :agree:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Before you further indulge in some Terry Funk, I demand you to watch Cowabunga/Cornette.


Okay I've watched. First of all- I had no idea Cornette could actually wrestle a bit. Sure they didn't do much of anything but he still bumped around a little and used a few holds. Second-that was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. Now I'm curious as to what the build was for Cornette to end up in a ring with a fucking Ninja Turtle. Third-who the fuck was in that costume? He was a great mime in the first part of the match. The best part of this wasn't even the wrestling match, that was just eh, the best was just Cornette's and the Ninja Turtle's antics before the bell rang. Had me cracking up. Gotta love those Southerners. They are awfully embarrassing but they sure know how to have some fun with their wrestling.



Robbie said:


> That Funk/Hansen match may just be my personal MOTD. Absolutely adore it, although I really need to watch more 80's stuff before I can throw MOTYs and MOTDs around. Bless my ignorance.



Yea I'm with you I haven't seen nearly enough to give my definitive MOTD for the 1980's. Off the top of my head, I'd probably go with Slaughter/Sheik Boot Camp Match MSG 1984. Of course Flair/Steamboat COTC would be up there as well, but my favorite is the Boot Camp. Also really love the Slaughter/Patterson Alley Fight, Piper/Valentine Dog Collar, and Flair/Windham BOTB 1986. Actually, yea I'm gonna go with a tie for MOTD 1980's, Boot Camp match and Flair/Windham BOTB 1986.


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## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I don't believe you guys about Cowabunga and Cornette. It's twenty minutes of Cornette wrestling a Ninja Turtle. Wacky and perhaps comedic but twenty minutes?! Sounds like it needs half that. Guess I'll watch it, though.




The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Thanks a lot for the recs man. I don't know if I found the right Funk/Guerrero match though. You said it was 10 minutes and the one I found is only 5. It has Eddie trying a bunch of high risk maneuvers every single time he gets a chance. Lots of drop kicks, a nice head scissors take over, a diving cross body, etc. Funk pile drives Eddie on the mats outside for the finish. Is that the one you were talking about??



Sorta guessed the time limit there :lol but it's the one and same. Match has a cool post-match promo where Funk relates Flair to the pet jackass he had as a kid that his father put down for being too old to be useful. I love Funk.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Is there anyone else out there the prefers the 2 Funk/Flair matches to the 3 Steamboat/Flair matches from 1989? I'm not saying the Funk matches are flat out BETTER, I just enjoy them more. Flair is just tremendous as a baby face, every bit as good as Steamboat was in their series, and Funk just takes being a psychotic heel to a whole nother level.
> 
> Edit-
> 
> THIS FUCKING MATCH :mark: :mark: If this is the one you were talking about Rah, then holy shit thank you this is absolutely amazing. Hansen is freaking monster (that spot where he wraps the rope around Funks neck and drags him back into the ring? Jesus), and the face performance from Funk here is perfection


YES, that's the match. Beauty of a war and the best part is that it happened on more than one occasion. That may be the best of their single bouts but anywhere they met up between the start of the decade until midway through is golden. Try the retirement tag against Hansen/Gordy, when you get the time because that's totally fab and more Hansen/Funk goodness. His work with Brody popped into my head, after Chismo's sig reminded me. Rudoreels has their singles bout up in great quality, as a teaser for the Brody set, but the Snuka/Brody Vs Funkers tag from December '81 is masterclass. Brody/Funks was a massacre each and every time.

As for Flair, maybe. Ahead of the lesser matches, probably, but I'd have to resee the Steamboat/Flair series. Not sure I take them as high as everyone else but, again, I don't think I take the Flair/Funk I Quit as high as everyone else, either. Funk's charisma was indelibly delicious, though.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching Steiners vs Bret/Owen atm, forgot how long this match was given, love it.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Funnily enough, i was going to watch this myself after finally taking a look at the DVDVR All Japan 80's set.


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## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

IMO, it's fucking IMPOSSIBLE to pick the 80s MOTD. Seven days in week, seven different answers, seven different million stars matches: NJPW/UWF Gauntlet, dem Flair/Steamer matches, dem Flair/Windham matches, dem Flair/anyone matches, a random Wahoo McDaniel match, a random Bob Backlund match, Choshu/Fujinami '83/8/4, Fujiwara/Inoki, Takada/Yamazaki, Andre/Khan, dem bloody lucha brawls, a random epic from Jumbo/Tenryu/Choshu saga, etc. etc. etc.

I'm one of those who prefer Funk/Flair from GAB. The "I Quit" is great, but GAB is almost perfection.

Edit: I'm glad my sig inspires dudes to watch great pro-catch.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

80's Lucha is something else i need to watch at some point, i did pick up GH's recent Lucha 80's set too.


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## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Sangre Chicana, 'nuff said. Might also be the coolest ringname ever.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> Sangre Chicana, 'nuff said. Might also be the coolest ringname ever.


MS-1 vs. Sangre Chicana (9/23/83) That is a match that is highly lauded isn't it?


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## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Yep. A minimalistic masterpiece. They had more matches.

Btw, has anyone ever stumbled upon the Billy Robinson vs. Harley Race from the mid-70s? Dunno the exact year, but it happened in Minnesota (a huge wrestling state back then) in front of 35,000 people, Meltzer mentioned the match in a huge write-up about Billy after his death earlier this year. Apparently it was an incredible match.


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## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Robbie said:


> That Funk/Hansen match may just be my personal MOTD. Absolutely adore it, although I really need to watch more 80's stuff before I can throw MOTYs and MOTDs around. Bless my ignorance.


That Funk/Hansen, along with Tiger Mask/Dynamite, are my resective favorite match and feud of the decade. I prefer both to say, Steamboat/Flair or Steamboat/Savage. Not that the latter isn't great stuff, but I know which ones Ive rewatched more, and which I sort of dread. Kind of like American Beauty or Requiem for a Dream or something. Great movies, but kind of a slog (for me) to get through more than once or twice. Compare that to Enter the Dragon or even *gasp* Jerry Maguire, or something else that I've seen a dozen times and would be excited to watch again. 

It's telling which you watch more of when determining what or who you think is one of "The Greats" because I think sometimes there is a disconnect between what you think you "should" like, and what you will naturally find yourself being drawn to when left to your own devices.


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Somebody here actually likes Tiger Mask vs. Dynamite Kid? And Minnesota is a city?


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Volk Han vs. Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 1/22/97)

Really need to watch more of Volk Han. Ill upload this as its not online. Its fucking amazing IMO.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> That Funk/Hansen, along with Tiger Mask/Dynamite, are my resective favorite match and feud of the decade. I prefer both to say, Steamboat/Flair or Steamboat/Savage. Not that the latter isn't great stuff, but I know which ones Ive rewatched more, and which I sort of dread. Kind of like American Beauty or Requiem for a Dream or something. Great movies, but kind of a slog (for me) to get through more than once or twice. Compare that to Enter the Dragon or even *gasp* Jerry Maguire, or something else that I've seen a dozen times and would be excited to watch again.
> 
> It's telling which you watch more of when determining what or who you think is one of "The Greats" because I think sometimes there is a disconnect between what you think you "should" like, and what you will naturally find yourself being drawn to when left to your own devices.



That's a good metaphor. The Godfather Part I & II and The Shawshank Redemption are in my opinion the 3 greatest movies ever made. They are complete masterworks with virtuoso directing and acting. But I've probably watched the 3 Indiana Jones movies about 10 times more frequently. Same with wrestling, I can't always be in the mood for a masterpiece, sometimes I just need fun, or wild brawling, or fast paced action.

Chismo: I too prefer GAB to the I Quit match for the Funk/Flair series. I actually gave GAB the full ***** on my most recent watch! with the I Quit at ****3/4.


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I quit is way overrated imo, **** for it, would likely go ****1/2 on the GAB match


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ain't watched the Flair/Funk matches in fucking years. I look forward to watching them again for my 80's list. 

I'd be quite happy if I never watched any TM/DK match ever again.


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm starting to kinda lean towards the GAB match as well. Loved the story of Flair having to wrestle Funk's kind of match.


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## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Does anyone have HBK vs Jericho from RAW 07/21/03 in good quality? The match seems to go 20+ minutes and I'd like to watch a good version of it.

And while we're at it, how's the match? I personally didn't even know they had such a lengthy match on RAW.


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## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Really?! Tiger Mask/Dynamite Kid gets no love? Changed fucking wrestling(!). Over the top characters; modern movement 20 years before its time. It was the new blueprint - Muta, Jushin Liger, Chris Benoit, DAT Lucha influence, DEM comic (Manga) books. Is it not slow and plodding enough? IDK, but it rocks the house every time it's on, and one of my go-to's on a slow Sunday. 

I'm gonna channel Tanahashi here, but it was the "new pie" - instead of chasing the same blood feud from NA or Strong-Style formula, they created something new and different. There's far too many wrestler's that will speak to its influence to discount it as one of the all-time greats.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Havent seen both Flair/Funk in ages but I doubt any of them are "overrated" even the I Quit


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I was afraid that the Edge/Michaels Street Fight on the 2/28/05 edition of RAW would be a contrived mess like their Royal Rumble match, but my goodness, it was incredible. Yes, it has some of the traits of your typical WWE brawl, but there were so many good things about this match, especially from Edge. Michaels' bladejob, Edge's war paint, INSANE chair shot, a ladder actually making sense in context to a street fight, a good looking spear, street clothes, Edge mocking the SCM, and then the SCM out of nowhere. A very special main event akin to the equally great Orton/Bryan street fight from last year. ****3/4*


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## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Hitman said:


> Volk Han vs. Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 1/22/97)
> 
> Really need to watch more of Volk Han. Ill upload this as its not online. Its fucking amazing IMO.


I love Han, but I love Tamura even more, he's the undisputed king of shoot genre, IMO. Tamura/Kosaka '98/6/27 is :mark:!



JustJoel said:


> Really?! Tiger Mask/Dynamite Kid gets no love? Changed fucking wrestling(!). Over the top characters; modern movement 20 years before its time. It was the new blueprint - Muta, Jushin Liger, Chris Benoit, DAT Lucha influence, DEM comic (Manga) books. Is it not slow and plodding enough? IDK, but it rocks the house every time it's on, and one of my go-to's on a slow Sunday.
> 
> I'm gonna channel Tanahashi here, but it was the "new pie" - instead of chasing the same blood feud from NA or Strong-Style formula, they created something new and different. There's far too many wrestler's that will speak to its influence to discount it as one of the all-time greats.


That was Mil Mascaras. No Mil Mascaras = no lucharesu guys like Tiger Mask, Liger, Muta, etc.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Volk Han vs Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 01.22.1997)*



Again, i urge people to watch this.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> I love Han, but I love Tamura even more, he's the undisputed king of shoot genre, IMO. Tamura/Kosaka '98/6/27 is :mark:!
> 
> 
> 
> That was Mil Mascaras. No Mil Mascaras = no lucharesu guys like Tiger Mask, Liger, Muta, etc.


This has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Mil Mascaras deserves credit for influencing wrestling or not, but I think Mil might have the single lowest approval rating among his peers, even worse than Ultimate Warrior. I've read just about every single wrestler biography that there is, and most of them mention Mil in some way or form, and all the ones that mention him seem to shit on him and say what a complete asshole he was. The only person I've ever heard speak nicely about him in an interview was Rey Mysterio, but then again I don't think Rey is capable of saying anything unkind about anyone.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> This has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Mil Mascaras deserves credit for influencing wrestling or not, but I think Mil might have the single lowest approval rating among his peers, even worse than Ultimate Warrior. I've read just about every single wrestler biography that there is, and most of them mention Mil in some way or form, and all the ones that mention him seem to shit on him and say what a complete asshole he was. The only person I've ever heard speak nicely about him in an interview was Rey Mysterio, but then again I don't think Rey is capable of saying anything unkind about anyone.


Mil was a weird man, for example he was really nitpicky in the ring, i.e. his opponent fucks up or doesn't execute some move properly, and Mil would just flat out refuse to sell for him. Things like that. But, many things are blown out of proportions when it comes to him, I've read and seen many counterparts as well.

His egomaniac shit aside, he was a tremendous guy in the ring. His stuff with The Destroyer will blow your mind, for example.



The Hitman said:


> *Volk Han vs Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 01.22.1997)*
> 
> 
> 
> Again, i urge people to watch this.


You should find and upload their first two matches, because it feels weird watching their trilogy closure without having seen their first two encounters. You know, key counters, callbacks and stuff.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> You should find and upload their first two matches, because it feels weird watching their trilogy closure without having seen their first two encounters. You know, key counters, callbacks and stuff.


x3rplg

Seems to be the 9/25/96 match. I may upload the 9/26/97 match as that isn't online.


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