# Dave Meltzer's ***** Match List



## Tnarocks (Sep 24, 2006)

Dave meltzer cab be a bit biased sometimes but I agree with all the matches. Thanks for this!


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## Caligula (Jul 3, 2006)

> * 4/19/86 Sheepherders vs. Fantastics (Bobby Fulton/Tommy Rogers)


I've always wanted to see that.


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## MrPaiMei (May 2, 2004)

Killa CaLi said:


> I've always wanted to see that.


Ya, its definatly the Holy Grail of the Tape Trading community. The one that stands out to me that I'd love to see but never have, even though I'm a total AJPW mark, is Brody/Hansen vs. Funks.


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## Sephiroth (May 27, 2006)

i thought he rated Rey/Eddie from Halloween Havoc 97 as 5 stars.


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## Derek (Jan 24, 2004)

sephy37 said:


> i thought he rated Rey/Eddie from Halloween Havoc 97 as 5 stars.


I believe he gave it ****3/4.


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## smalls5791 (Dec 13, 2005)

I got the Ultimate Ric Flair Collection for my 16th birthday this past monday. A few of the Flair matches listed above were on the DVD set. I watched the Flair/Steamboat 2/3 falls match today. Classic


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## RPC (Oct 1, 2006)

Wow I guess I need to check out All Japan from back in the day.


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## Spartanlax (Jan 20, 2006)

ROH/PWG/CZW said:


> Wow I guess I need to check out All Japan from back in the day.


Mid-90s AJPW. Get anything from there and you'll wind up with a classic.


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## Future Star (Jul 28, 2006)

no aj vs joe on teh tna list? I dont trust dave 100% because as tnarocks said, he can be biased. He gives most of Kobashis matches *****


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## chunkyluve360 (Nov 10, 2006)

Funk vs Flair got a ***** holy shit!


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## Sephiroth (May 27, 2006)

Future Star said:


> no aj vs joe on teh tna list? I dont trust dave 100% because as tnarocks said, he can be biased. He gives most of Kobashis matches *****


don't say it's based on just Kobashi. if you look at the mid 90's, Misawa, Kawada, Taue, and Kobashi were racking up the 5 stars. their heavy/junior vs. heavy/junior matches are the stuff of legends.


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## Arrogance (Mar 24, 2007)

Both Kobashi/Misawa and Kobashi/Akiyama definately deserve to be rated five-star. Fantastic matches!

I really need to see Kobashi/Joe...


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## mes (Jun 1, 2005)

Arrogance said:


> Both Kobashi/Misawa and Kobashi/Akiyama definately deserve to be rated five-star. Fantastic matches!
> 
> I really need to see Kobashi/Joe...



Kobashi/Joe was great and all but I really think it wasn't better than rey/eddie from HH97, I mean, cmon, the match itself wasn't that great (Joe/Kobashi), it was the crowd and the chopfest the things that made this match.


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## MBL (Jan 26, 2006)

There have been many more five star matches in WWE/WWF and ROH than he has named in my opinion.


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## Kawada = god (Feb 9, 2004)

Future Star said:


> no aj vs joe on teh tna list?


He gave it ****3/4.


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## McQueen (Jul 17, 2006)

I love the fact that Manami Toyota is in every ***** women's match except for the Hokuto/Kandori classic from Dreamslam 1, but then again she deserves it as she was the cream of the crop when it came to women's wrestling IMO.



> * 04/02/93 Kyoko Inoue & Takako Inoue vs. Cutie Suzuki & Mayumi Ozaki


Guess I need to rewatch this match, I enjoyed it a lot but I think I only rated it around ****1/4, 


There are a few matches on the list I don't wholly agree with being five stars and there are a few I would put on there as well, notibly the famous M-Pro 10 man tag from 1996, Ultimo Dragon vs Ohtani from J-Crown 96 and Angle vs Benoit at RR03.

Note: It is an seemingly an extremely rare match to find but if you all can find Kanemoto vs El Samurai from BOTSJ 97 watch it, such an awesome match.


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## Blasko (Jul 31, 2006)

Future Star said:


> He gives most of Kobashis matches *****


 ...Because it's fucking _Kobashi._

Who has put on some of the greatest matches in wrestling history?

...

Wow, you've said something REALLY stupid.


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wow, Sid Vicious can claim he has been in a 5 star match... no wonder he has such a huge ego lol. I can't believe I have only seen about 8 of those matches, I must see more! Just out of curiousity, what did he give Benoit/Angle for their Royal Rumble 2003 match, and the Angle/Undertaker No Way Out 2006 match? I consider them to be 5 star matches, so I was wodering how high he rated them.

Edit: There must be something wrong with me, I was being lazy asking other people for the information! Went to google instead, and got the info myself...

Angle/Benoit RR2003 - ****3/4
Angle/Undertaker NWO2006 - ****


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## angryWEFposter. (Oct 11, 2006)

5/17/92 Sting, Nikita Koloff, Ricky Steamboat, Barry Windham, & 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Rick Rude, Steve Austin, Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, & 
Larry Zbyszko (WarGames Match, WCW WrestleWar 1992)

Anybody have this???


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## vs535dl (Oct 14, 2006)

why do people take the meltzer ratings as fact?they are merely his opinions.everyone has different tastes in wrestling.his opinion is no more important or correct than the opinion of anyone else who watches wrestling.or maybe everyone should love roller derby


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## Superkick_Kid (May 7, 2007)

Personally, the biggest travisty is when he gave HHH vs HBK vs Benoit at WM 20 ****3/4. That match was a 5 star match.

I dont get the ****3/4 matches. Cant he just say 5 stars. Fractions in ratings can be stupid at times.


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## odm (Oct 16, 2006)

vs535dl said:


> why do people take the meltzer ratings as fact?they are merely his opinions.everyone has different tastes in wrestling.his opinion is no more important or correct than the opinion of anyone else who watches wrestling.or maybe everyone should love roller derby


they don't take them as fact, but his match ratings are the most prevalent/popular in the business so they are what most people (both wrestlers and fans) follow when they talk about 5 star matches.


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## StraightEdge (Aug 2, 2006)

Superkick_Kid said:


> Personally, the biggest travisty is when he gave HHH vs HBK vs Benoit at WM 20 ****3/4. That match was a 5 star match.
> 
> I dont get the ****3/4 matches. Cant he just say 5 stars. Fractions in ratings can be stupid at times.


That match probably didn't get 5 Stars because it was Missing something, thats probably why all matches that are only 1/4 off of a 5 Star Match get that rating. 

5 Star Matches Deserve To Be the best matches ever, HBK Vs HHH Vs Benoit just wasn't the best ever.


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## Caligula (Jul 3, 2006)

Yeah, I watched HHH/HBK/Benoit yesterday actually. Not 5 star in my eyes.


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## Superkick_Kid (May 7, 2007)

I think it deserved the rating more than Owen vs Bret - Cage Match.

I felt that match had just too many escape attempts and wasnt that great. If any of the Owen vs Bret matches should have gotten 5 stars, it should have been their WM 10 match.


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## CMoney™ (Jan 27, 2007)

A lot of those matches are classics, but I hate Dave Meltzer. He's a ass-kisser & he thinks he's the "God" of the IWC. :no:


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## Caligula (Jul 3, 2006)

I mark out for Meltzer


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## DDMac (Feb 20, 2005)

Keller > Meltzer


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## MrPaiMei (May 2, 2004)

Keller is the biggest fucking idiot in all of wrestling.


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## DDMac (Feb 20, 2005)

MrPaiMei said:


> Keller is the biggest fucking idiot in all of wrestling.


:ns

Michaels/Taker isn't five stars...but Austin/Bret is on the list, so all is forgiven.


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## Caligula (Jul 3, 2006)

DDMac said:


> *Michaels/Taker isn't five stars*...but Austin/Bret is on the list, so all is forgiven.


Wow, I thought I was the only one that thought that.


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## MMA (Feb 28, 2007)

A lot of those matches are gimmick matches for WWE.


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## Kawada = god (Feb 9, 2004)

angryWEFposter. said:


> 5/17/92 Sting, Nikita Koloff, Ricky Steamboat, Barry Windham, &
> Dustin Rhodes vs. Rick Rude, Steve Austin, Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, &
> Larry Zbyszko (WarGames Match, WCW WrestleWar 1992)
> 
> Anybody have this???


It's in my WCW Megapost:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wcw/338311-1990-1993-wcw-megapost.html


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## watts63 (May 10, 2003)

I never thought the Michaels/Taker was ***** stars either but I always thought that Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart at WM 10 was five stars.


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## I luv Mickie James (Apr 4, 2006)

^ I certainly did


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only 3 ROH matches? Pfft, I could add some that I have seen there. Nigel/Danielson & Danielson/KENTA for sure. 

I can agree with most, seeing all of the Flair/Steamboat matches get 5 stars makes me want to check those out. But ***** for Taker/HBK? come on, that match was one I felt very dissapointed watching.


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## Caligula (Jul 3, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Only 3 ROH matches? Pfft, I could add some that I have seen there. Nigel/Danielson & Danielson/KENTA for sure.
> 
> I can agree with most, *seeing all of the Flair/Steamboat matches get 5 stars makes me want to check those out.* But ***** for Taker/HBK? come on, that match was one I felt very dissapointed watching.


omfg you haven't seen them?


*GO BUY THE FLAIR DVD NOW.*


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Killa CaLi said:


> omfg you haven't seen them?
> 
> 
> *GO BUY THE FLAIR DVD NOW.*


Its on my to buy list:$ 

Checking Amazon now.......


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## Caligula (Jul 3, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Its on my to buy list:$
> 
> Checking Amazon now.......


There's 4 legit 5 star matches on it.

Flair/Steamboat
Flair Steamboat
Flair/Funk
Flair/Race


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Killa CaLi said:


> There's 4 legit 5 star matches on it.
> 
> Flair/Steamboat
> Flair Steamboat
> ...


Ahh, nice. I heard its like 10 hours and stuff, to be honest I haven't bough much of WWE DVD's in a bit, maybe I will start up with this. Along with the Benoit one since I f'n lost it


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## Honor™ (Mar 22, 2004)

Future Star said:


> no aj vs joe on teh tna list? I dont trust dave 100% because as tnarocks said, he can be biased. He gives most of Kobashis matches *****


AJ VS Joe wasnt that good. And its hard to say that what......... 9 of Kobashi's matches out of literally thousands make the 5 star list. That really isnt "giving most of Kobashis matches 5*."

Its a good list, but lacks some of the matches i definatly would have put up there. Ohtani VS Dragon from JCROWN for example. 

Good list though


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## Future Star (Jul 28, 2006)

Honor™ said:


> AJ VS Joe wasnt that good. And its hard to say that what......... 9 of Kobashi's matches out of literally thousands make the 5 star list. That really isnt "giving most of Kobashis matches 5*."
> 
> Its a good list, but lacks some of the matches i definatly would have put up there. Ohtani VS Dragon from JCROWN for example.
> 
> Good list though


if u dont think that aj/ joe is that good just look at spartans description in the MOTYC thread

And i didnt really mean *****, but mostly very high, sorry for the confusion


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## MrPaiMei (May 2, 2004)

* 03/09/85 Tiger Mask II vs. Kuniaki Kobayashi

I'll nevere get this. Ya, it was good, but it wasn't THAT good. And put me on the Joe-AJ ***** bandwagon. And I cannot understand for the life of me why so many people hate on Taker-HBK. In my opinion, one of the best brawls EVER, if not the best. Told an amazing story and was just perfectly executed, and innovative.


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## El Conquistador (Aug 16, 2006)

I actually believe that Meltzer doesn't have enough ***** matches on the list. Oh well, by the looks of that list, his standards are extremely high and nothing similar to mine (not saying that I have low standards, but you know, his standards are just sky rocketing).


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## Mr Charisma (May 6, 2006)

I think Meltzer's opinions are bizarre at times.

He rates the TNA Unbreakable match (as great as it was) over the triple threat main event at WM20? Please. That match is the greatest triple threat match of all time and deserves *****.


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## Penishead (Nov 10, 2006)

^^^I don't agree with you, I'm not saying the one at WM20 was bad but the triple threat at Unbreakable is probably the best Triple threat match I've ever seen as it was fast paced and told a good story.


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## I luv Mickie James (Apr 4, 2006)

> He rates the TNA Unbreakable match (as great as it was) over the triple threat main event at WM20? Please. That match is the greatest triple threat match of all time and deserves *****.


Hell no, the wm20 is overrated and the unbreakable one is the finest match in TNA's history. Joe/Styles/Danielson work sooo well together.

EDIT----

I do agree with you when you say Meltzer is bizzare at times, i think people follow his word too much. Wrestling is about opinion anyway, I wouldnt go near even 4*1/4 for Angle/Benoit and he gave it 4*3/4.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mr Charisma said:


> I think Meltzer's opinions are bizarre at times.
> 
> He rates the TNA Unbreakable match (as great as it was) over the triple threat main event at WM20? Please. That match is the greatest triple threat match of all time and deserves *****.


I have to disagree. While the WM 20 3 way is really good, it isn't better than Unbreakable. That match is just so fluid and great in every way. WM 20 was a ****1/2 match for me.



> I wouldnt go near even 4*1/4 for Angle/Benoit and he gave it 4*3/4.


Well I kinda see where your at too. I thought it was going to be a "5-star" esque match up but when I watched it, it was really good but not anything to blow me away as people said. I just gave it ***3/4, I can't lie a good match, just overrated from other people.

EDIT-upon rewatching Kurt/Benoit RR match, I sure feel dumb. Seeing how I had to re-change my score from ***3/4 to ****2/3. I just must have not paied to much attention in the first watch:$


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## LL4E (Oct 9, 2006)

I think Rey vs. Eddie; Mask vs. Title and Angle vs. Benoit from Royal Rumble 03 should be added to the list.


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## ENCIRE (Jan 29, 2006)

That's a great list of matches and I know I'm going to souind stupid, but who is Dave Meltzer?


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## Sephiroth (May 27, 2006)

ENCIRE said:


> That's a great list of matches and I know I'm going to souind stupid, but who is Dave Meltzer?


he's a guy that put out a wrestling newsletter back during the late 80's and basically sent it out himself and was the only source for insider news and non kayfabe news and scoops. he was basically the first internet wrestling fan...even before the internet. 

his newsletter got pretty popular with people and tape traders and his views and opinions became pretty well regarded and whenever someone talks about a 5 star match, it was usually based on Meltzer's rating of it being 5 stars.


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## paska (Apr 23, 2007)

I really need to see some of those.


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## CMAngle33 (Apr 20, 2006)

The crowd ruined Unbreakable for me. This is awesome chants every thirty seconds drive me up the wall.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CMAngle33 said:


> The crowd ruined Unbreakable for me. This is awesome chants every thirty seconds drive me up the wall.


Lol. Well that's TNA fans for ya, always over-reacting to shit. Don't blame ya, I gave it 5 stars still but damn it makes you want to slap all of them.


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## astate81 (Jun 23, 2007)

i agree that the Rey vs. Eddie Mask vs. Title match should be added


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## Katsuyori Murakami (Jun 17, 2007)

Who cares? Meltzer is an idiot. I can't understand for the life of me why people still pay attention to anything he has to say.


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## bstaple12 (Jan 22, 2007)

Angle vs. Benoit is definitely ***** in my eyes. And Taker,Michaels is not.


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## Mike Rivers (Aug 4, 2006)

Can we start a petition for Meltzer To Change AJ-Joe from 4 3/4 Stars to a 5 Stars


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## returnofmozangeles (Jun 16, 2006)

What a lame list. Not enough AAA and absolutely no CMLL matches? WTF? There are also many 90's wcw matches worthy of being rated five stars. His AJPW list is good.


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## K.B. (Jun 6, 2006)

Katsuyori Murakami said:


> Who cares? Meltzer is an idiot. I can't understand for the life of me why people still pay attention to anything he has to say.


Ed Zachary. I look at this guy just as I look at members on this board who give their ratings. I don't feel he's above any of us.


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## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

Does it really matter what Meltzer puts on his list? I mean, couldn't anybody make up their own 5 star match list? What makes his more credible than mine? Meltzer isn't exactly someone I hold in high esteem (he's the same guy that reported that Mercury attacked Stephanie McMahon a few months back) 

I know that I would disagree with his list in a few places. For example, Punk/Joe II in ROH was given 5 stars and was said to be the first American Match to do so since 1997's Taker/Michels Hell in a Cell match. 

Now maybe I'm just picky, but there are a few matches I would have given five stars too from 97-04. Rock vs. Austin at Mania X-Seven is probably the match of the decade IMO. The Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H series had many matches would have to rank pretty highly up there as well. 

Also, I thought that Punk vs. Joe I was much better than II. I'm not trashing II. I thought the trilogy as a whole was very very very VEEEERY good, but I personally enjoyed the first encounter the most. Once again, that's just my opinion. 

So yeah, I wouldn't put too much stock into this.

EDIT: Also, I have to ask, why do so many people put stock into what Meltzer thinks? It pissed me off so much when I said that Harris/Storm at Sacrifice was a MOTY candidate, and people told me it wasn't because Wade Keller and Dave Meltzer said that it wasn't. WTF?!?!?! Why the hell should that matter?!?! What about what you think??? I say it is and that's good enough for me!!!


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## odm (Oct 16, 2006)

it's more "credible" because he has been in the wrestling reporting business for 20something years now and has a lot more knowledge of the business than random people giving ratings on a forum. obviously rating a match is completely subjective and NO ONE should follow meltzer as a be all-end all source of the best matches ever, but for someone new to wrestling or a younger fan that wants to check out great matches that he may have missed, meltzer's list is a great place to start. his list gets more mention & "credibility" because he was the first to do it, and his is the most well known in the industry.


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## The Imperfect (Sep 23, 2005)

Misawa pwns all.


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## K.B. (Jun 6, 2006)

odm said:


> it's more "credible" because he has been in the wrestling reporting business for 20something years now and has a lot more knowledge of the business than random people giving ratings on a forum. obviously rating a match is completely subjective and NO ONE should follow meltzer as a be all-end all source of the best matches ever, but for someone new to wrestling or a younger fan that wants to check out great matches that he may have missed, meltzer's list is a great place to start. his list gets more mention & "credibility" because he was the first to do it, and his is the most well known in the industry.


Yeah, but he came up from stratch, it's 2007, with all this stuff floating around you don't need to have that to your credit in order to be a solid critic. I mean, you'll know if someone's being biased or not. All opinion though no matter who it's from.

I wouldn't reccommend anyone to go to Meltzer, I'd reccommend them to start studying matches themselves, watching all the ***** matches in Meltzer's opinion wouldn't really help you understand Wrestling matches IMO. Watch a variety of decent to great matches and you'll get the understanding.


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## Mark. (Nov 25, 2006)

Nice to see Benoit got a ***** match before his death.


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## odm (Oct 16, 2006)

King Bookah said:


> Yeah, but he came up from stratch, it's 2007, with all this stuff floating around you don't need to have that to your credit in order to be a solid critic. I mean, you'll know if someone's being biased or not. All opinion though no matter who it's from.
> 
> I wouldn't reccommend anyone to go to Meltzer, I'd reccommend them to start studying matches themselves, watching all the ***** matches in Meltzer's opinion wouldn't really help you understand Wrestling matches IMO. Watch a variety of decent to great matches and you'll get the understanding.


true, but i'd much rather read a movie review from roger ebert than some pimple-faced geek living in his parent's basement writing reviews. that's all it comes down to. i said nothing about studying wrestling matches or understanding them. i simply said if someone wants to check out great wrestling matches then meltzer's list is a fantastic place to start.


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## K.B. (Jun 6, 2006)

odm said:


> true, but i'd much rather read a movie review from roger ebert than some pimple-faced geek living in his parent's basement writing reviews. that's all it comes down to. i said nothing about studying wrestling matches or understanding them. i simply said if someone wants to check out great wrestling matches then meltzer's list is a fantastic place to start.


Yeah, I know what you mean. It's just that he's worshipped by some as if his Ratings were actual facts.


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## MrPaiMei (May 2, 2004)

TripleG said:


> (he's the same guy that reported that Mercury attacked Stephanie McMahon a few months back)


No. Just...no.


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