# Sticky  AEW TV Ratings Thread



## Erik.

But the Rampage ratings will be from TNT... 

🤔


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## Kenny's Ghost

Firefromthegods said:


> All the numbers stuff here. Have fun and keep it friendly


What the hell do you mean by keep it friendly?! 









That's it! I'm mad.


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## Garty

Hey, that's not the thread title I suggested?!  This was my suggestion...

*TV RATINGS, PPV BUYRATES & TICKET SALES DISCUSSION FOR AEW IN 2022*

Make it right.


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## RainmakerV2

Zomg zomg zomg it's happening


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## Prized Fighter

As an aside, I am taking over the ratings game. I will be give two warning per week. Rampage and Dynamite predictions will need to be submitted prior to those shows. I will be posting the winner for yesterday Rampage, once the ratings are released.


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## LifeInCattleClass

New year, new thread, new me

i’m going to listen to all the critics with a calm ear and a warm heart, trying to see their side of the story


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## Geert Wilders

Shall we predict the final rating for the final Dynamite and Rampage of the year?


Dynamite - Wednesday 28 December - 1.1 million.
Rampage - Saturday 31st December - 300k - very low because i expect the pandemic to be truly over by this time and everyone will be spending it at some party or event. If it does not go ahead on this night, then the final rampage will be around 500k.


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## Prosper

May 2022 bring nothing but overalls that are over a million and demos that stay over 0.45


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## LifeInCattleClass

Geert Wilders said:


> Shall we predict the final rating for the final Dynamite and Rampage of the year?
> 
> 
> Dynamite - Wednesday 28 December - 1.1 million.
> Rampage - Saturday 31st December - 300k - very low because i expect the pandemic to be truly over by this time and everyone will be spending it at some party or event. If it does not go ahead on this night, then the final rampage will be around 500k.


what, like the end of 2022?

lol - ok

Dynamite - 1.3m
Rampage - 520k


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## yeahright2

Nothing to add here, I just want to be on the first page of the new thread


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## ProjectGargano

Geert Wilders said:


> Shall we predict the final rating for the final Dynamite and Rampage of the year?
> 
> 
> Dynamite - Wednesday 28 December - 1.1 million.
> Rampage - Saturday 31st December - 300k - very low because i expect the pandemic to be truly over by this time and everyone will be spending it at some party or event. If it does not go ahead on this night, then the final rampage will be around 500k.


For Dynamite it was already announced- 975k


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## Geert Wilders

ProjectGargano said:


> For Dynamite it was already announced- 975k


How have they already announced a future Dybamite rating? I’m not talking about 2021.


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## Erik.

Geert Wilders said:


> Shall we predict the final rating for the final Dynamite and Rampage of the year?
> 
> 
> Dynamite - Wednesday 28 December - 1.1 million.
> Rampage - Saturday 31st December - 300k - very low because i expect the pandemic to be truly over by this time and everyone will be spending it at some party or event. If it does not go ahead on this night, then the final rampage will be around 500k.


Dynamite EOY 2022 - 1,200,000 (1,050,000 year avg)
Rampage EOY 2022 - 650k (550k year avg)

Unless Rampage date and time is changed.


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## 3venflow

I feel like AEW's ticket sales aren't spoken of enough and everyone focuses on ratings instead (even though the income is fixed for the contract they're on, so basically the ratings become more a financial issue when renewal talks begin).

They run far fewer shows than WWE but just to compete at this stage of their existence is incredible. TNA never came within a light year of doing it.


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## Erik.

3venflow said:


> I feel like AEW's ticket sales aren't spoken of enough and everyone focuses on ratings instead (even though the income is fixed for the contract they're on, so basically the ratings become more a financial issue when renewal talks begin).
> 
> They run far fewer shows than WWE but just to compete at this stage of their existence is incredible. TNA never came within a light year of doing it.
> 
> View attachment 114204


TNA and AEW comparisons should have ended when AEWs first ever PPV, before even getting a TV deal, got a higher buy rate than any TNA PPV in existence.


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## Chip Chipperson

Geert Wilders said:


> Shall we predict the final rating for the final Dynamite and Rampage of the year?
> 
> 
> Dynamite - Wednesday 28 December - 1.1 million.
> Rampage - Saturday 31st December - 300k - very low because i expect the pandemic to be truly over by this time and everyone will be spending it at some party or event. If it does not go ahead on this night, then the final rampage will be around 500k.


Dynamite - 850k - 900k

Rampage: 300-400k


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## PhenomenalOne11

EOY Dynamite Predictions: Anywhere between 750k-950k 

EOY Rampage Predictions: Anywhere between 350-550k


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## Geeee

Obviously, next year's new year's smash featuring The Rock vs John Cena Thrice in a Lifetime will do over a million but it will be back to 900k the next week for The Rock vs Peter Avalon


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## One Shed

Geeee said:


> Obviously, next year's new year's smash featuring The Rock vs John Cena Thrice in a Lifetime will do over a million but it will be back to 900k the next week for The Rock vs Peter Avalon


If Cena shows up, I am imagine there would be some syrup/juice pouring contest between him and Trashitty. I really hope that goof never shows up.


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## CovidFan

December 28th Dynamite - 695k
Last Rampage of 2022 - 375k


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## Curryfor3

Geeee said:


> Obviously, next year's new year's smash featuring The Rock vs John Cena Thrice in a Lifetime will do over a million but it will be back to 900k the next week for The Rock vs Peter Avalon


Rock & Cena have a competitive 16-minute tag match with 2.0 to open Rampage. 🤠


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## BestInTheWorld22

CovidFan said:


> December 28th Dynamite - 695k
> Last Rampage of 2022 - 375k


695k? Lol


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## just_one

i think we are in for a rude awakening...TBS as far as i can see is not promoting this AT ALL on social media.

Im not an american so i have no idea if they are promoting on the channel itself. is TBS a bigger network than TNT?

i would really love for a +1.5M rating but i just cant see that happenning , even 1M is a victory i think


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## Erik.

just_one said:


> i think we are in for a rude awakening...TBS as far as i can see is not promoting this AT ALL on social media.
> 
> Im not an american so i have no idea if they are promoting on the channel itself. is TBS a bigger network than TNT?
> 
> i would really love for a +1.5M rating but i just cant see that happenning , even 1M is a victory i think




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478076286887026692


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## Curryfor3

The aewontnt IG account has been promoting the move to TBS fwiw. Also, we're surely getting an aewontbs sm account in the near future no?


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## RoganJosh

TNT and TBS have roughly the same reach. TNT is available in 89.5m homes whilst TBS is available in 90.39m homes. There is less than a million difference there so I doubt it will make a difference to the usual viewership.


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## zkorejo

Whatever happened to the rampage ratings? I'm curious as to what the girls did in terms of the numbers. Their match was pretty great.


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## Erik.

zkorejo said:


> Whatever happened to the rampage ratings? I'm curious as to what the girls did in terms of the numbers. Their match was pretty great.


They should be out tonight.

Will be interesting to see if the "boycott" affected them in any way.


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## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478385412498497539

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 3venflow

Here's the top 50 cable ratings in full. Can we get Rampage moved to Saturday primetime? The show deserved to be viewed by far more people than that. Doesn't look like much performed outside of the college football on NYE.


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## Prized Fighter

Isn't this kind of an expected result since they were competing with the college football playoff, NYE shows and people going out for new years? There is a reason, most TV networks only show reruns on New Years Eve. It is the death spot of all death spots.

This weeks winner for the Rampage ratings prediction game is @La Parka with a smokin guess of 420k (Insert shameless plug for the ratings game here). 

@yeahright2 am I doing this right?


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## Erik.

No HOOK, no ratings.

In all seriousness, I don't know if that's good or bad considering it's a 10pm show on New Year's Eve.


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## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478385412498497539
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Rerun Reigns falls to the Bunny once again


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## InexorableJourney

It took me a full minute to even find AEW in the ratings table.


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## Prized Fighter

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Rerun Reigns falls to the Bunny once again







We go live to The Bunny vs Roman Reigns in progress.


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## LifeInCattleClass

InexorableJourney said:


> It took me a full minute to even find AEW in the ratings table.


you’ll search longer for Smackdown on that top 50 list


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## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478407113697341445

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Prized Fighter

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478407113697341445
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Makes sense. The college football playoff games weren't on NYE last year, but we're this year. That spike is expected.


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## yeahright2

Prized Fighter said:


> Isn't this kind of an expected result since they were competing with the college football playoff, NYE shows and people going out for new years? There is a reason, most TV networks only show reruns on New Years Eve. It is the death spot of all death spots.
> 
> This weeks winner for the Rampage ratings prediction game is @La Parka with a smokin guess of 420k (Insert shameless plug for the ratings game here).
> 
> @yeahright2 am I doing this right?


Not bad


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## MonkasaurusRex

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Rerun Reigns falls to the Bunny once again


WWE aired a clip show and was bumped to a 3rd tier specialty channel and AEW aired new content. I'm not sure that's a win worth mentioning for AEW.


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## LifeInCattleClass

MonkasaurusRex said:


> WWE aired a clip show and was bumped to a 3rd tier specialty channel and AEW aired new content. I'm not sure that's a win worth mentioning for AEW.


naah, last time around when there was a smackdown rerun which ran against a channel and time moved dynamite and it won, we had to hear it for a week

turnabouts fair play - Rampage beat Smackdown


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## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478530023741132801

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 3venflow

The women deserved more than that really, but NYE and all. Interesting to see Codelander again caused a late night ratings increase in both categories. Time for him to become double champion? 😇


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## zkorejo

Street fight definitely deserved a better number.


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## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478530023741132801
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


critics be like ‘it doesn’t matter what else was happening, if they put on a better show it‘ll draw more’


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## Aedubya

What's with the codelander name ?


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## ripcitydisciple

Aedubya said:


> What's with the codelander name ?


Look up The Boys on Amazon Prime Video.

You can thank me later.


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## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478565094640472065

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Prosper

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478565094640472065
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol more Brandi on Dynamite please


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## CovidFan

I hope someone corrected her spelling of "rosters" in the replies.


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## 3venflow

Last night's show did a much better attendance than thought earlier in the day. I think WrestleTix said he assumed a section was closed that was open. His final count was 8,318 tickets sold.


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## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479154808875630592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479155016510418945
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Aedubya

Predict
35-39
0.92


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## LifeInCattleClass

now guys - remember

if this is nice and high, imma have some receipts for those that said 'the west coast 5pm slot affected nothing', m'kay?


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## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479167528513507338

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Erik.

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479167528513507338
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Better lead in should help. 

Let's hope people realised they changed channels last night, huh?


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## RapShepard

They're doomed and will be out of business in the soon to distant future


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## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


> They're doomed and will be out of business in the soon to distant future


Is it soon or the distant future? I want to give you correct credit if it happens.


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## bdon

RapShepard said:


> They're doomed and will be out of business in the soon to distant future


You moved to Australia..? Lmao


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## Prosper

bdon said:


> You moved to Australia..? Lmao


Rap is definitely down undahhh


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## ThunderNitro

It’s getting late where I’m at.Where are these ratings? Been waiting all week to see AEW crack a 0.9 for the third week in a row.


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## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479195850114883585

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Prosper

Ah I was close, great rating though!!! That demo looks nice


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*A mil flat with 3 title matches is concerning. That's supposed to be their average. 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479195850114883585*


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## Crusader30

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479195850114883585










Horrible number for TBS debut and return to west coast timeslot.


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## elo

Demo beat a Warriors game, impressive - tbs upped the female number alone with TBBT as the lead-in.


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## RoganJosh

Excellent rating for the first show on TBS. Network execs must be delighted. Things can only get better from here on.


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## LifeInCattleClass

Lower than what i thought it would be :/


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## RoganJosh

Crusader30 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479195850114883585
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Horrible number for TBS debut and return to west coast timeslot.


Are you serious? You really must be a troll. How about fans who forgot to set their DVRs or those who forgot about the channel change? You don't think once they find their way to TBS there will be a huge increase on this million?


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## Geeee

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lower than what i thought it would be :/


I actually thought we'd see a dip due to the network change. That demo looking thicc


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## Crusader30

RoganJosh said:


> Are you serious? You really must be a troll. How about fans who forgot to set their DVRs or those who forgot about the channel change? You don't think once they find their way to TBS there will be a huge increase on this million?


Excuse me?

Don’t look for trouble with me, you want to discuss why I think that they do so, but keep it civil, don’t start off a convo calling someone else a troll, you wanna know why I think that then ask, and of course I’m serious, otherwise why would I post it?

1 million viewers for first show of the year, megahyped with 3 titles defended is bad.

Until they surpass the 1.4 million OPPOSED viewership they got on their debut why should I care for increases here and there?

Unless it surpasses that it ain’t a sign of growth, just fluctuation. If they surpass that number then it’s growth.

AEW failing is an L on me, if AEW fails then I’M fucked as a fan, let’s make that clear before you get hostile or accuse me of being a hater.

AEW has to succeed, there can be no other way, if I gotta give it tough love criticism in hopes that they listen to succeed then so be it.

I’m not gonna Gaslight AEW or Tony Khan by pretending things are good, that would be destructive.


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## DaSlacker

Quarter hours will be interesting. Moving channel and timeslot correction have to be factored in at this stage.


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## RoganJosh

Crusader30 said:


> Excuse me?
> 
> Don’t look for trouble with me, you want to discuss why I think that they do so, but keep it civil. Of course I’m serious, otherwise why would I post it?
> 
> 1 million viewers for first show of the year, megahyped with 3 titles defended is bad.
> 
> Until they surpass the 1.4 million OPPOSED viewership they got on their debut why should I care for increases here and there?
> 
> Unless it surpasses that it ain’t a sign of growth, just fluctuation.


You're talking bollocks. 1 million after a channel change is an achievement considering only a few weeks ago they were drawing in the 800k range. Why are you holding onto 1.4m? You realise there is more to growth in a company than what the live viewing figures show?


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## #BadNewsSanta

Good number. They loaded the episode but it was still the first show with the channel change. Once everyone’s used to the new channel in a few weeks we’ll see if there’s any regular improvement from what they were doing the last couple months on TNT.


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## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479200836655927302

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ThunderNitro

Did people really expect them to get a rating between 1.2-1.4? Wishful thinking if you ask me.


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## rich110991

Great rating  Least they didn’t lose viewers with the switch!


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## Crusader30

RoganJosh said:


> You're talking bollocks. 1 million after a channel change is an achievement considering only a few weeks ago they were drawing in the 800k range. Why are you holding onto 1.4m? You realise there is more to growth in a company than what the live viewing figures show?













Eh, you’re again giving me attitude for no reason dude. Like I said take a step back and be civil, you have hostility over here, like I said ask why I wrote that, don’t write “bollocks” and dismiss what I say because you didn’t like it.

I showed respect, so return the civility, you wanna debate fine but do so respectfully.

Now, why 1.4 Million, because that’s their highest viewership, if they don’t have more viewers how can that be a growth in ratings?

For there for be a Growth, they have to have MORE viewers than they started, so they have to have more than 1.4 for there to logically be growth.

We’ve seen the numbers fluctuate to a million or over then decrease again, so unless they go over 1.4 million it don’t mean squat.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Good number. They loaded the episode but it was still the first show with the channel change. Once everyone’s used to the new channel in a few weeks we’ll see if there’s any regular improvement from what they were doing the last couple months on TNT.


*They got the highest demo since September, so I'm definitely not trying to see the DVR excuses from others right now. The dedicated fanbase definitely tuned in for this.*


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## A PG Attitude

Crusader30 said:


> Excuse me?
> 
> Don’t look for trouble with me, you want to discuss why I think that they do so, but keep it civil, don’t start off a convo calling someone else a troll, you wanna know why I think that then ask, and of course I’m serious, otherwise why would I post it?
> 
> 1 million viewers for first show of the year, megahyped with 3 titles defended is bad.
> 
> Until they surpass the 1.4 million OPPOSED viewership they got on their debut why should I care for increases here and there?
> 
> Unless it surpasses that it ain’t a sign of growth, just fluctuation. If they surpass that number then it’s growth.
> 
> AEW failing is an L on me, if AEW fails then I’M fucked as a fan, let’s make that clear before you get hostile or accuse me of being a hater.
> 
> AEW has to succeed, there can be no other way, if I gotta give it tough love criticism in hopes that they listen to succeed then so be it.
> 
> I’m not gonna Gaslight AEW or Tony Khan by pretending things are good, that would be destructive.


They arent failing though. They've exceeded the network's expectations. Just because they arent matching WWE numbers doesnt mean they arent succeeding.


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## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit Lioness said:


> *They got the highest demo since September, so I'm definitely not trying to see the DVR excuses from others right now. The dedicated fanbase definitely tuned in for this.*


Maybe. We’ll see over the next few weeks.


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## Aedubya

Great nights work, execs will be ecstatic


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## Prized Fighter

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479204208947699716
This will be interesting to track in the coming months. Did this increase because of the three title matches or did the bump to TBS and lead in from BBT make a difference?


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## Dr. Middy

Big Bang Theory as a lead in matters 0 really, since TBS plays that awful show constantly. 

It was properly treated like a big deal of a show. Hopefully you got good buzz off this and the number remains steady.


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## Erik.

So where the demo increased was HUGE increase in women and men 12-34. So this was a much younger skewed audience then usual

Comparing form last week

18-34 increased HUGE from 0.19 to 0.34 (beat RAW which got 0.32

Males 12-34 from 0.20 to 0.29

Women 12-34 from 0.12 to 0.24

I do wonder if a lower 50+ demo had to do with old people not realising it changed channels. Bloody old people. 

Comparing to last year :

They got 662,000 viewership and 0.25 in the demo.


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## ThunderNitro

This proves that Jade Cargill is a draw!


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## Geeee

Prized Fighter said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479204208947699716
> This will be interesting to track in the coming months. Did this increase because of the three title matches or did the bump to TBS and lead in from BBT make a difference?


The kids love them some Hangman. Maybe they should put him on the show more often


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## RoganJosh

Crusader30 said:


> Eh, you’re again giving me attitude for no reason dude. Like I said take a step back and be civil, you have hostility over here, like I said ask why I wrote that, don’t write “bollocks” and dismiss what I say because you didn’t like it.
> 
> I showed respect, so return the civility, you wanna debate fine but do so respectfully.
> 
> Now, why 1.4 Million, because that’s their highest viewership, if they don’t have more viewers how can that be a growth in ratings?
> 
> For there for be a Growth, they have to have MORE viewers than they started, so they have to have more than 1.4 for there to logically be growth.
> 
> We’ve seen the numbers fluctuate to a million or over then decrease again, so unless they go over 1.4 million it don’t mean squat.


By growth do you mean growing the business or growing the live tv numbers? The two are not mutually exclusive you realise that?


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## Mike E

That's a great number considering they changed networks, I was expecting at least 100,000 to 200,000 less than their usual totals. I figured it would take a few weeks for everyone to follow them over to TBS.


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## RoganJosh

Dynamite came in at 2nd position in the key demo, only behind the NBA on ESPN which drew 0.53.


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## Geert Wilders

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479195850114883585
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


this is a really good rating all things considered.

mill should hopefully be their baseline.


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## Sherlok4

As a resident AEW Hater I’d like to congratulate AEW and their fans for a great rating in their TBS debut, especially the key demo

Now of course, if they fail to match or exceed last nights rating next week then my fellow haters and I should be able to provide the criticism without the usual vicious backlash from the lovers

No more west coast issue

More people will be aware of the station change so theoretically they should do 1.1 million with a 0.44 demo

No more excuses please


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## ShadowCounter

Crusader30 said:


> Until they surpass the 1.4 million OPPOSED viewership they got on their debut why should I care for increases here and there?


Smackdown got 3.9 million on its debut show. It hovers around 2.2 million now. Are they super failures since they've lost nearly 45% of their audience? Just wanna know what the rules are here.


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## ElTerrible

Erik. said:


> So where the demo increased was HUGE increase in women and men 12-34. So this was a much younger skewed audience then usual
> 
> Comparing form last week
> 
> 18-34 increased HUGE from 0.19 to 0.34 (beat RAW which got 0.32
> 
> Males 12-34 from 0.20 to 0.29
> 
> Women 12-34 from 0.12 to 0.24


Women watching Leonard and Howard fumbling for the vibrator remote....oh wait who is that handsome Cowboy.


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## Whoanma




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## yeahright2

Stacking the card with 3 title matches. 
And surprise, surprise -No Bucks or Omega.


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## TD Stinger

#2 overall in the Charts is great for them Viewership was a bit smaller than I thought it would be, though the rating was also a bit higher than I thought it would be.

I'll be interested to see if this will look like a high for them considering in a way it was a debut episode and they had the big matches or if they'll build from here.


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## Seafort

Monday Night Raw:
1/6/20: 2.385M
1/3/22: 1.716M

If AEW can continue to decline less than Raw’s rate of reduction, it’s a win in this environment.


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## 3venflow

The amount of young men they're getting to watch is pretty incredible. As Thurston said, it was more than RAW and Smackdown this week. Females and older viewers lean more to WWE though, although the female demo last night was 0.30, which is better than usual.


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## DaSlacker

Seafort said:


> Monday Night Raw:
> 1/6/20: 2.385M
> 1/3/22: 1.716M
> 
> If AEW can continue to decline less than Raw’s rate of reduction, it’s a win in this environment.


Momentum is on AEW's side, in the long run. As time goes by the non WWE acts like Hangman and Darby will be established and accepted more than ever. One or two long running storylines - doesn't have to be sensationalism - will suffice. Assuming the networks demand Raw, NXT and SmackDown have separate stars and continue to churn out 7 hours of 50/50 booking every week. And that WWE continues in the direction they've been in since at least 2008 (TV formula is same as year 2000) . And they keep releasing talent en mass - meaning Khan can bring wrestlers in for a stint at a much cheaper price than in 2019.

It's like 1993 to 1996, when WWE had money issues and an exodus of popular names signed with Eric Bischoff. Combined with 1998 - 1999, when Turner Sports was demanding Eric produced 8 hours of content per week for TNT/TBS. There was too much throwaway wrestling, pushing fans towards the more exciting and condensed 3 hours of content on USA Network. 

That's how I imagine the rest of the decade plays out for wrasslin in North America.


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## Mr. WrestleMania

Thought it would be considerably higher considering the west coast viewers are back and TBS is in more households than TNT and all the promotion for the show.


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## La Parka

Not a great number for a PPV like show.

AEW is now running unopposed, all west coast people can watch live again and they’ve signed the hottest free agents. A million is nice but it should be more for a stacked card like that. If they do that again consistently for the next month, then I’d say it’s a success. AEW often struggles retaining fans after having a big event like this, time will tell if they can keep people engaged with their product.


----------



## Randy Lahey

0.43 is an excellent demo number for the show switching channels. I expect Dynamite to consistently beat Raw in the demo after Wrestlemania. May even happen before.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479255448981286912

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Erik.

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479255448981286912
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The huge start was 100% the lead in from the Big Bang Theory.

Once again though, pretty consistent throughout for the most part.

Very nice to see Wardlow and Jade Cargill bring in some viewers. They have something with both.

GET PILLMAN OFF TV


----------



## elo

The blood turned ~30k young women off, guarantee it.


----------



## Crusader30

ShadowCounter said:


> Smackdown got 3.9 million on its debut show. It hovers around 2.2 million now. Are they super failures since they've lost nearly 45% of their audience? Just wanna know what the rules are here.


Uh oh… Looks like we got someone who thinks I’m some WWE mark because I shit on AEW…










I shit on both WWE and AEW, I hold both to the same standard and I’m one of the biggest WWE critics around, that game ain’t gonna work with me. You got the wrong guy here homes, that standard applies to WWE as well and I shit on them equally if not more, so “but but WWE” or painting me out as a WWE fanboy ain’t gonna work with me, and yes WWE and Smackdown are super failures too.


----------



## Brodus Clay

Crusader30 said:


> Uh oh… Looks like we got someone who thinks I’m some WWE mark because I shit on AEW…
> 
> * I’m one of the biggest WWE critics around*, that game ain’t gonna work with me. You got the wrong guy here homes, that standard applies to WWE as well and I shit on them equally if not more, so “but but WWE” or painting me out as a WWE fanboy ain’t gonna work with me, and yes WWE and Smackdown are super failures too.


*Joined 18 d ago
28 Posts*


----------



## 3venflow

They should bring in Jim Parsons one week and put him in Q1. Looks like they'll enjoy some nice lead-ins from the BBT.


----------



## bdon

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479255448981286912
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Your world title match loses a 100k viewers.
Ouch.


----------



## Joe Gill

bdon said:


> Your world title match loses a 100k viewers.
> Ouch.


that was likely from a lot of habitual tbs viewers who tuned in early out of curiosity but changed the channel..i highly doubt many aew fans were changing the channel during that match


----------



## bdon

Joe Gill said:


> that was likely from a lot of habitual tbs viewers who tuned in early out of curiosity but changed the channel..i highly doubt many aew fans were changing the channel during that match


Considering the first 15 minutes consisted of the guys standing around not doing much, I’d venture to think a lot of people simply didn’t find it enjoyable. A few of us were instantly turned off by it in the live thread.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Based on those quarters, doesn't look like the channel change really did anything. The final two quarters being by far the weakest tells us that. Can't really tell with the beginning how many people tuned out because they weren't watching BBT anymore, or if Page/Bryan was turning people off. There was a slight gain in the third quarter, but Page/Bryan wasn't the full quarter in that.

Regardless, it was a good showing for the match. They had more an average viewership this World Title match than their prior one. Plus, as a whole for the show it's good they kept it consistent and actually increased throughout until it looks like the start of Black/Pillman. The last couple of quarters dropping like that is really weird though. Usually if there's a drop it in what's otherwise a consistent show, it happens earlier. Maybe the tag title match really was a turn off.


----------



## Prosper

So they maintained a milli all night until the main event, wasn’t expecting that honestly, thought they would drop off mid show and regain viewers for the tag title match. You never know how these trends will go.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> now guys - remember
> 
> if this is nice and high, imma have some receipts for those that said 'the west coast 5pm slot affected nothing', m'kay?


----------



## RoganJosh

Showstopper said:


> Thought it would be considerably higher considering the west coast viewers are back and TBS is in more households than TNT and all the promotion for the show.


TBS is in less households than TNT.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

RoganJosh said:


> TBS is in less households than TNT.


Not according to Google it isn't.


----------



## RoganJosh

Showstopper said:


> Not according to Google it isn't.


I just checked. They have virtually the same reach, TBS is in less than a million more households.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

RoganJosh said:


> Check wiki.


I did. The source on google is from Wiki, and it says TNT has 89 and change and TBS has 90 and change. Not a ton more, but more nonetheless.


----------



## bdon

bdon said:


> You moved to Australia..? Lmao


Oh come on, @Chip Chipperson , it was all in good fun based on the diehards acting like the Aussie’s were the only people who hated the show.

Hell, I was accused of being Aussie for a while during the Covid shows when AEW wasn’t even trying. Lol


----------



## Prosper

Anything over 900K is great, you people can move the goalposts all you want but AEW is here to stay. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Geeee

Brodus Clay said:


> *Joined 18 d ago
> 28 Posts*


They pretty much just admitted to being a rejoiner who was previously banned. Good stuff


----------



## Not Lying

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479255448981286912
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


100K lost for Bryan/Page is not good, but the rest of the show held nicely, with Jade/Ruby providing a nice bump. I guess this week we're skipping the women don't draw talk?
Tag match losing viewers doesn't surprise me. It didn't have starpower and the feud isn't heated.

Also, props for Jericho for keeping them engaged in Q4, he was the only star there who could follow Bryan then Punk. I guess he still has some starpower left.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Prosper said:


> Anything over 900K is great, you people can move the goalposts all you want but AEW is here to stay. 🤷‍♂️


Might be here to stay but won't be growing unfortunately.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Might be here to stay but won't be growing unfortunately.


that’s ok i guess

leaves the door open for a 3rd company to also take market share

NWA, MLW can take those spots

maybe even GCW


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> maybe even GCW




GCW sucks, would like to see MLW or NWA.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479255448981286912
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*Jade had the biggest gain and no one cared after that. That was pretty much how I felt when Black's music hit. Interesting how I don't see the usual ridiculous posts about women plummeting ratings.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> GCW sucks, would like to see MLW or NWA.


they have a pretty loyal fanbase and a unique hardcore style

but i guess they aren’t for everybody

MLW might be the least offensive 3rd option - they’re kinda NJPW / WWE hybrid, right?


----------



## Garty

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Jade had the biggest gain and no one cared after that. That was pretty much how I felt when Black's music hit. Interesting how I don't see the usual ridiculous posts about women plummeting ratings.*


I think we can chalk up a "ratings win" for the ladies this week, only because it was the final match of the TBS Championship Tournament, not because the match was good, it wasn't. We'll see how much of a "ratings win" Jade is in the coming weeks, but my guess is that she'll be amongst the lowest rated segments of the show going forward.


----------



## Hitman1987

AEW viewership has peaked.

No Sting/Punk/Bryan level signings left out there and I hate to say it but the only interesting, non-WWE rehash, storyline left is Cody’s heel turn and everybody knows he will fuck it up because he will put more effort in getting himself (and Brandi) over than the storyline/promotion.


----------



## BestInTheWorld22

Hitman1987 said:


> AEW viewership has peaked.
> 
> No Sting/Punk/Bryan level signings left out there and I hate to say it but the only interesting, non-WWE rehash, storyline left is Cody’s heel turn and everybody knows he will fuck it up because he will put more effort in getting himself (and Brandi) over than the storyline/promotion.


Agree, pretty sure all of these signings have turned people away. Nobody wants to watch boring wrestlers like the undisputed era for instance. Other things that have killed their potential growth is the comedy aspects from Dark Order, the long competitive matches with stars and jobbers and 30+ minute matches. AEW had a ton of potential when they first started and had mostly all originals, now it's full of WWE cast offs


----------



## Hitman1987

BestInTheWorld22 said:


> Agree, pretty sure all of these signings have turned people away. Nobody wants to watch boring wrestlers like the undisputed era for instance. Other things that have killed their potential growth is the comedy aspects from Dark Order, the long competitive matches with stars and jobbers and 30+ minute matches. AEW had a ton of potential when they first started and had mostly all originals, now it's full of WWE cast offs


All this boils down to TK’s arrogance with regards to bringing in an experienced booker.

AEW is like an NFL team that has an owner (TK) who has the money to bring in world class players (Wrestlers) and therefore the team (Roster) consists of some World
Class throwers/catchers/blockers. But they don’t have a world class manager (Booker) who can put world class plays together and therefore all the players all go out at the same time and throw/catch/block at the same time and there’s no consistency or common goal.

All successful businesses/teams have a hierarchy and common goal(s) that’s why they are successful:

1. Owner - Buys the players
2. Manager - Tells the players how to play
3. Players - Follow the manager’s instructions

You take away the manager (booker) and you have a bunch of world class players (wrestlers) running around without world class instruction and therefore they are not providing a world class performance.

Simple example
Beer-Drinking, horse-riding, Lone Ranger, ass-kicking hangman page is a lot more relatable/exciting than drinking-problem, friend of dark order hangman.

A world class booker would know that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hitman1987 said:


> All this boils down to TK’s arrogance with regards to bringing in an experienced booker.
> 
> AEW is like an NFL team that has an owner (TK) who has the money to bring in world class players (Wrestlers) and therefore the team (Roster) consists of some World
> Class throwers/catchers/blockers. But they don’t have a world class manager (Booker) who can put world class plays together and therefore all the players all go out at the same time and throw/catch/block at the same time and there’s no consistency or common goal.
> 
> All successful businesses/teams have a hierarchy and common goal(s) that’s why they are successful:
> 
> 1. Owner - Buys the players
> 2. Manager - Tells the players how to play
> 3. Players - Follow the manager’s instructions
> 
> You take away the manager (booker) and you have a bunch of world class players (wrestlers) running around without world class instruction and therefore they are not providing a world class performance.
> 
> Simple example
> Beer-Drinking, horse-riding, Lone Ranger, ass-kicking hangman page is a lot more relatable/exciting than drinking-problem, friend of dark order hangman.
> 
> A world class booker would know that.


this 'inexperienced' booker narrative has come and gone

TK has been running a national weekly show (now two) and PPVs for 3 years - booking and the works

that is a lot more 'live' experience at the top of the table than a lot of bookers today

you guys cannot disregard his 'on-work' experience anymore - you can only say 'i don't like his booking style'

also - your Hangman example is out of whack - Hangman is a 3D character is a lot more interesting than 'wrestling cowboy trope'


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> this 'inexperienced' booker narrative has come and gone
> 
> TK has been running a national weekly show (now two) and PPVs for 3 years - booking and the works
> 
> that is a lot more 'live' experience at the top of the table than a lot of bookers today
> 
> you guys cannot disregard his 'on-work' experience anymore - you can only say 'i don't like his booking style'


*Alright, he has over two years of experience and still puts a ton of garbage on his shows.*


----------



## BestInTheWorld22

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Alright, he has over two years of experience and still puts a ton of garbage on his shows.*


Facts, he's basically ruined Christian too. I have no idea why he's stuck as a manager for jungle express


----------



## Hitman1987

LifeInCattleClass said:


> this 'inexperienced' booker narrative has come and gone
> 
> TK has been running a national weekly show (now two) and PPVs for 3 years - booking and the works
> 
> that is a lot more 'live' experience at the top of the table than a lot of bookers today
> 
> you guys cannot disregard his 'on-work' experience anymore - you can only say 'i don't like his booking style'
> 
> also - your Hangman example is out of whack - Hangman is a 3D character is a lot more interesting than 'wrestling cowboy trope'


Where did I say TK is an inexperienced booker? I said AEW need a world class booker which TK isn’t. TK was an inexperienced booker when AEW started but now he is abooker, and has booked a wrestling show for a few years, but his audience hasn’t grown after multiple cash/talent injections and therefore that would suggest that his booking isn’t that good and could be better as they have everything else (talent, productions, resource etc)

Regarding Hangman, they could have booked him like Austin vs Mcmahon when he was feuding against the Elite and made him a huge star. Instead they had him play around on lawnmowers with a faction of goofs who visibly look like they shouldn’t be on TV. If you hang around with the goofs consistently then you will begin to look like 1 of the goofs.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

BestInTheWorld22 said:


> Facts, he's basically ruined Christian too. I have no idea why he's stuck as a manager for jungle express


*He set Christian up to fail by over hyping his AEW debut, rushed him into a title match that he won to resounding indifference, then wrestled another world title match on PPV to dead silence. This is Tony throwing Woody in the toy chest after buying Buzz Lightyear (Punk/Cole/Bryan)*.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Alright, he has over two years of experience and still puts a ton of garbage on his shows.*


3 years - aedub is 3 yahrrss old this month

now tv show came later, but there were specials and ppvs and company creation etc etc


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hitman1987 said:


> Where did I say TK is an inexperienced booker? I said AEW need a world class booker which TK isn’t. TK was an inexperienced booker when AEW started but now he is abooker, and has booked a wrestling show for a few years, but his audience hasn’t grown after multiple cash/talent injections and therefore that would suggest that his booking isn’t that good and could be better as they have everything else (talent, productions, resource etc)
> 
> Regarding Hangman, they could have booked him like Austin vs Mcmahon when he was feuding against the Elite and made him a huge star. Instead they had him play around on lawnmowers with a faction of goofs who visibly look like they shouldn’t be on TV. If you hang around with the goofs consistently then you will begin to look like 1 of the goofs.


tell me who is a better booker actually working right now that he can hire

none of your old podcasters who hasn’t booked in years - actual people doing the work that he can hire today

babyfaces being booked like Austin is lazy and old hat


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 3 years - aedub is 3 yahrrss old this month
> 
> now tv show came later, but there were specials and ppvs and company creation etc etc


*That's really not helping him look like a better booker.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *That's really not helping him look like a better booker.*


it is the best overall wrestling show on every week

i know you're a Smackdown / NXT 2.0 fan - but let's be honest, you're actually a Sasha, Roman and Bron fan (maybe one or two more)

you cannot seriously tell me as a whole, any other show is booked better if you disregarded seeing your faves - like if they left, you would most likely not watch


----------



## Erik.

The sooner we accept the fact that wrestling just isn't the mainstream form of entertainment it used to be, the better. AEW ratings haven't grown significantly, but neither have WWE's. I am guessing many fans of WWE also tune into AEW. There isn't room for two companies and the "all-or-nothing" mind-set, not anymore.

At least AEW is satisfying the individual goals they have set out for themselves (they and TNT). We're still in a pandemic. AEW still doesn't run house shows or shows outside the US, so its global reach is limited to the shows they run here, and the imports they occasionally deliver.

Also: AEW is three years old, just about. How long did it take WWE to get off the ground and become a global phenomenon? It took them five years to get to WrestleMania, but they had a lot of work to do before becoming WWF in 1979, when they were WWWF and part of NWA. Asking if AEW has peaked in three years is like asking if WWF has peaked in 1981 or 1982.

The notion they can't grow their audience is a strange one too. 

* Their TV ratings were up in 2021 compared to 2020, despite overall cable viewership being down. 

*In comparison to last year, Wednesdays show saw a near on 400k increase in last year's show. 

* Their PPV buys are all up year-over-year. Their top-4 PPV sales are each of the ones that occurred this year.

* Their ticket sales are better since they've left Daily's Place then they were pre-pandemic.

* Their merchandise sales are better, if only due to CM Punk's outrageously popular shirt that quickly became the all-time top seller on PWTees/ShopAEW's website.

* Miscellaneous metrics like YouTube views and social media followers have continued to rise.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

I just think Tony would be better with a filter or someone to structure his ideas. Someone like say....Dustin Rhodes or maybe Christian....or something.

I have my issues with AEW but what they're doing seems to be working just fine.

For the love of God though....please no Road Dogg or Delirious....


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it is the best overall wrestling show on every week
> 
> i know you're a Smackdown / NXT 2.0 fan - but let's be honest, you're actually a Sasha, Roman and Bron fan (maybe one or two more)
> 
> you cannot seriously tell me as a whole, any other show is booked better if you disregarded seeing your faves - like if they left, you would most likely not watch


*I'd say it's second to SmackDown and I think that's fair. If Tony Khan put his best and most logical shit on TV every week, he could easily have the best overall show, but the stupid shit is incredibly stupid and brings him down drastically. 

I will give him credit for the first ever televised DQ that simultaneously advanced a storyline and had a major impact on the show in general. It's a huge step in the right direction. The next step is enforcing tag team rules.*


----------



## Hitman1987

LifeInCattleClass said:


> tell me who is a better booker actually working right now that he can hire
> 
> none of your old podcasters who hasn’t booked in years - actual people doing the work that he can hire today
> 
> babyfaces being booked like Austin is lazy and old hat


In your own words you said this weeks dynamite was ok and outside the world title match the rest of the episode was meh.

For a network debut, with a world title match including Bryan, a Tag title match, a CM Punk segment and a title tournament finale, do you think ok is good enough. The components are all there for a great show so what was missing? The booking.

I don’t know what active bookers are out there, I’m a fan so I don’t need to know. However, if I was putting $100m into a wrestling business I’d make it my priority to find out who it was and offer him a job.

Regarding the podcaster comment, TK had a chance to bring him on board but decided to insult him by saying that he, a person with no booking experience, will be booking everything and therefore ignoring an experienced booker’s opinions.

Hangman - Lone underdog babyface against stable of evil heels will always generate money. People tune in weekly to see him overcome the odds.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hitman1987 said:


> In your own words you said this weeks dynamite was ok and outside the world title match the rest of the episode was meh.
> 
> For a network debut, with a world title match including Bryan, a Tag title match, a CM Punk segment and a title tournament finale, do you think ok is good enough. The components are all there for a great show so what was missing? The booking.
> 
> I don’t know what active bookers are out there, I’m a fan so I don’t need to know. However, if I was putting $100m into a wrestling business I’d make it my priority to find out who it was and offer him a job.
> 
> Regarding the podcaster comment, TK had a chance to bring him on board but decided to insult him by saying that he, a person with no booking experience, will be booking everything and therefore ignoring an experienced booker’s opinions.
> 
> Hangman - Lone underdog babyface against stable of evil heels will always generate money. People tune in weekly to see him overcome the odds.


yeah, i said it was ‘meh’

but one ‘meh’ episode does not make a shit season - otherwise Lost would‘ve stopped at season 3

Corny was never coming onboard - he wouldn’t travel for it / there are no other available bookers out there on this level, and that is unfortunately the fact


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I'd say it's second to SmackDown and I think that's fair. If Tony Khan put his best and most logical shit on TV every week, he could easily have the best overall show, but the stupid shit is incredibly stupid and brings him down drastically.
> 
> I will give him credit for the first ever televised DQ that simultaneously advanced a storyline and had a major impact on the show in general. It's a huge step in the right direction. The next step is enforcing tag team rules.*


they do enforce tag rules

njpw tag rules / not wwe and not 80s

its very similar to njpw, which is really where they come from historically


----------



## Garty

The "peaked" comment is overblown, or misused here. This week was the premiere on TBS, coming from TNT, so let's be real here that some fans (casual or otherwise) may have forgotten the switch, or didn't re-program their DVR's. Also, with the west-coast feed of TBS being back at their original 8PM PST (from 5PM PST) timeslot, this may have complicated their viewing options even more. The TV ratings for January should be the measuring stick we use going forward, now that things have returned to normal regarding days and times.

AEW is not WWE and WWE is not AEW. Those three letters make a world of difference when talking about "wrestling" in the general sense. To a lot of people, Nintendo is "videogames", Kleenex is "tissues"... you could say that WWE is "wrestling" and that's all people know. For a company that had no competition for 20 years and a generation of fans growing with it, it's pretty easy to see why they became known as "wrestling".


----------



## Erik.

GNKenny said:


> I just think Tony would be better with a filter or someone to structure his ideas. Someone like say....Dustin Rhodes or maybe Christian....or something.
> 
> I have my issues with AEW but what they're doing seems to be working just fine.
> 
> For the love of God though....please no Road Dogg or Delirious....


Imagine if Dusty was still alive.


----------



## bdon

Hitman1987 said:


> Where did I say TK is an inexperienced booker? I said AEW need a world class booker which TK isn’t. TK was an inexperienced booker when AEW started but now he is abooker, and has booked a wrestling show for a few years, but his audience hasn’t grown after multiple cash/talent injections and therefore that would suggest that his booking isn’t that good and could be better as they have everything else (talent, productions, resource etc)
> 
> Regarding Hangman, they could have booked him like Austin vs Mcmahon when he was feuding against the Elite and made him a huge star. Instead they had him play around on lawnmowers with a faction of goofs who visibly look like they shouldn’t be on TV. If you hang around with the goofs consistently then you will begin to look like 1 of the goofs.


The show misses Omega and Moxley, the Yin and Yang of the essence of AEW.

No matter how big or good Punk and Bryan are, their segments and matches feel like a WWE show.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they do enforce tag rules
> 
> njpw tag rules / not wwe and not 80s
> 
> its very similar to njpw, which is really where they come from historically


*No, they don't. There is no tag rule that says you can have all 4-8 guys in the ring for minutes on end doing stupid dance recital bullshit. *


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *No, they don't. There is no tag rule that says you can have all 4-8 guys in the ring for minutes on end doing stupid dance recital bullshit. *


Lol - you’ve never watched njpw


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lol - you’ve never watched njpw


*This is also bullshit. I liked the Bucks in Japan when they had smarter wrestlers laying their matches out. You are choosing to ignore their mediocrity in AEW if you can't see the differences. *


----------



## Whoanma

bdon said:


> The show misses Omega and Moxley, the Yin and Yang of the essence of AEW.


----------



## bdon

Whoanma said:


>


The two most over guys that refuse to work a WWE-style?

Yeah. I’d say that’s pretty representative of AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *This is also bullshit. I liked the Bucks in Japan when they had smarter wrestlers laying their matches out. You are choosing to ignore their mediocrity in AEW if you can't see the differences. *


it is definitely not bullshit

their tag rules are even more lax than AEW

have you ever seen the Taguchi baseball spot for instance?

also - the bucks laid their own matches out in njpw / just read the book


----------



## RapShepard

I don't know if AEW has peaked, and I wouldn't say they're failing. But they do feel like they're underperforming to a degree TV wise given the name value and praise they receive. Yeah yeah I know AEW is a new brand. But the fact we're wiping are brow about them finally getting back over a million consistently should be a cause of slight concern on whether guys like Bryan and Punk are really the stars we think they are.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> I don't know if AEW has peaked, and I wouldn't say they're failing. But they do feel like they're underperforming to a degree TV wise given the name value and praise they receive. Yeah yeah I know AEW is a new brand. But the fact we're wiping are brow about them finally getting back over a million consistently should be a cause of slight concern on whether guys like Bryan and Punk are really the stars we think they are.


Times have changed.

Put it this way. If one of my favourites from AEW went to WWE, it isn't going to make me tune in and watch WWE, it'd most likely make me watch their highlights on YouTube or a particular clip of their moment.

Just like I wouldn't expect people in 2022 to simply tune into a 2 hour show in hopes of a glimpse from the one person they tuned in to see when they're only interested in one person.

Some people just don't care for wrestling enough to watch it live. That's where we are at. It's nicher than ever.

I happen to think Raw, Smackdown and Dynamite are actually all doing really well when comparing their Demos and rankings on their particular night. 

The only people who seem to think otherwise are living in the past and comparing 2022 to decades of the past. 

It's like comparing the modern day music industry and how artists make money now for success as opposed to what it was like decades ago.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it is definitely not bullshit
> 
> their tag rules are even more lax than AEW
> 
> have you ever seen the Taguchi baseball spot for instance?
> 
> also - the bucks laid their own matches out in njpw / just read the book


*I'm not saying there were NEVER silly spots. I'm saying they didn't corrupt the entire match for absurd amounts of time that defy the tag counts in excess of several minutes.*


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> Times have changed.
> 
> Put it this way. If one of my favourites from AEW went to WWE, it isn't going to make me tune in and watch WWE, it'd most likely make me watch their highlights on YouTube or a particular clip of their moment.
> 
> Just like I wouldn't expect people in 2022 to simply tune into a 2 hour show in hopes of a glimpse from the one person they tuned in to see when they're only interested in one person.
> 
> Some people just don't care for wrestling enough to watch it live. That's where we are at. It's nicher than ever.


I agree to a degree, but think it's a convenient cop out. (Same when it comes to why NXT is so far away from Raw and SmackDown) for why the alleged best show isn't performing better. 

I do think the 2nd paragraph might have some real merit for AEW though. Because they don't use the top stars as a thread way through the entire show, it might discourage folk, since it's basically "get your shit in and leave for the night".


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


> I don't know if AEW has peaked, and I wouldn't say they're failing. But they do feel like they're underperforming to a degree TV wise given the name value and praise they receive. Yeah yeah I know AEW is a new brand. But the fact we're wiping are brow about them finally getting back over a million consistently should be a cause of slight concern on whether guys like Bryan and Punk are really the stars we think they are.


I think it is much tougher to determine star power in AEW because the shows aren't ever built around one or two wrestlers. WWE built their shows around their FOTC and usually one upper mid-carder all the time so the drawing power could at least be fairly well attributed to them. Punk and Bryan get one segment a week and tend to do well in their segments. I don't expect the average segment to get 1 million and then Bryan and Punk to suddenly get 1.5 million out of no where. No one in wrestling would generate that kind of increase.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> I agree to a degree, but think it's a convenient cop out. (Same when it comes to why NXT is so far away from Raw and SmackDown) for why the alleged best show isn't performing better.
> 
> I do think the 2nd paragraph might have some real merit for AEW though. Because they don't use the top stars as a thread way through the entire show, it might discourage folk, since it's basically "get your shit in and leave for the night".


I genuinely think it's not much more than tribalism as to why. 

There are ALOT of WWE fans that are just that. WWE fans. They don't care about other wrestling promotions, won't even give them a chance because "it isn't WWE" and believe if you're not in the WWE you aren't worth anything. 

And then when they DO watch an episode, they're constantly in criticise mode. From criticising wrestlers they've likely never heard of, match structure, promos etc.

Its a shame really. But I get it. I don't watch WWE anymore and haven't for coming up to 5 years because they lost me. 

AEWs hope of growth in North America in terms of fans is WWE driving away wrestling fans away who enjoy other types of wrestling and the younger generation who grow up before theyve got a tribalised favourite.


----------



## RapShepard

Prized Fighter said:


> I think it is much tougher to determine star power in AEW because the shows aren't ever built around one or two wrestlers. WWE built their shows around their FOTC and usually one upper mid-carder all the time so the drawing power could at least be fairly well attributed to them. Punk and Bryan get one segment a week and tend to do well in their segments. I don't expect the average segment to get 1 million and then Bryan and Punk to suddenly get 1.5 million out of no where. No one in wrestling would generate that kind of increase.


Agreed the one segment and done for the night could be an issue



Erik. said:


> I genuinely think it's not much more than tribalism as to why.
> 
> There are ALOT of WWE fans that are just that. WWE fans. They don't care about other wrestling promotions, won't even give them a chance because "it isn't WWE" and believe if you're not in the WWE you aren't worth anything.
> 
> And then when they DO watch an episode, they're constantly in criticise mode. From criticising wrestlers they've likely never heard of, match structure, promos etc.
> 
> Its a shame really. But I get it. I don't watch WWE anymore and haven't for coming up to 5 years because they lost me.
> 
> AEWs hope of growth in North America in terms of fans is WWE driving away wrestling fans away who enjoy other types of wrestling and the younger generation who grow up before theyve got a tribalised favourite.


I agree it's some tribalism there. But that's why I brought up NXT, because it has WWE branding. I think while there's certainly WWE fans that won't give shit else a true try. I think as far as our bubble of hardcore fans, there's also the issue of overestimating the thirst for an old NXT or AEW style things. Like you always hear them talked about as the show fans actually want, but numbers be it TV or social media doesn't really back it up. I mean if AEW's best hope for growth is WWE pissing off fans, that's not really an indication they're putting on that attractive of a product. 

(NOT THAT I THINK THEY'RE AWFUL. JUST MAYBE THERE ARE SOME CHANGES THEY COULD MAKE ON THEIR OWN, TO GROW WITHOUT WWE SHITTING THE BED)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I'm not saying there were NEVER silly spots. I'm saying they didn't corrupt the entire match for absurd amounts of time that defy the tag counts in excess of several minutes.*


they literally - like quite literally have the same type of tag matches as AEW

just he glad its not AAA lucha tag rules - if you can‘t handle this, that style will make you tear your hair out


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> Agreed the one segment and done for the night could be an issue
> 
> 
> 
> I agree it's some tribalism there. But that's why I brought up NXT, because it has WWE branding. I think while there's certainly WWE fans that won't give shit else a true try. I think as far as our bubble of hardcore fans, there's also the issue of overestimating the thirst for an old NXT or AEW style things. Like you always hear them talked about as the show fans actually want, but numbers be it TV or social media doesn't really back it up. I mean if AEW's best hope for growth is WWE pissing off fans, that's not really an indication they're putting on that attractive of a product.
> 
> (NOT THAT I THINK THEY'RE AWFUL. JUST MAYBE THERE ARE SOME CHANGES THEY COULD MAKE ON THEIR OWN, TO GROW WITHOUT WWE SHITTING THE BED)


I think NXT had its own fanbase in all honesty.

Whilst yes, it was part of the WWE umbrella, it started off on the Network as an alternative wrestling product that was completely different to what you'd see on Monday nights.

It was almost like it was AEW before AEW came along and done it better.

And I was watching all the product back then and NXT blew it out of the water for consistent quality.

But being the best in terms of quality doesn't always equate to being the most popular or having the most viewers etc. - I think both NXT in the past and AEW currently prove that.

You've got to remember the average age of the fanbase that actually watches these shows live on cable though.

Basically older than 98% of the people on this forum.

Which is why ratings, yes are still important, you really have to take them with a pinch of salt when it comes to overall viewership of that particular week.

Because I have no doubt all the wrestling shows get more viewers outside of cable than they do on it. Numbers unfortunately we'll never know.

I think it's fair to say that I don't think the Monday Night Wars sees 10,000,000 tune in live on cable every week if they have the same handicaps wrestling has in modern day.

1,000,000 people watching a wrestling show in a country that's dominated by a population that probably only actually know wrestling as the WWE is actually pretty good, especially when you consider its also a top 5 program each week. 

And Raw and Smackdown actually do pretty well in that climate too.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Might be here to stay but won't be growing unfortunately.


Surely you’re not basing growth on just the cable audience.


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> I think NXT had its own fanbase in all honesty.
> 
> Whilst yes, it was part of the WWE umbrella, it started off on the Network as an alternative wrestling product that was completely different to what you'd see on Monday nights.
> 
> It was almost like it was AEW before AEW came along and done it better.
> 
> And I was watching all the product back then and NXT blew it out of the water for consistent quality.
> 
> But being the best in terms of quality doesn't always equate to being the most popular or having the most viewers etc. - I think both NXT in the past and AEW currently prove that.
> 
> You've got to remember the average age of the fanbase that actually watches these shows live on cable though.
> 
> Basically older than 98% of the people on this forum.
> 
> Which is why ratings, yes are still important, you really have to take them with a pinch of salt when it comes to overall viewership of that particular week.
> 
> Because I have no doubt all the wrestling shows get more viewers outside of cable than they do on it. Numbers unfortunately we'll never know.
> 
> I think it's fair to say that I don't think the Monday Night Wars sees 10,000,000 tune in live on cable every week if they have the same handicaps wrestling has in modern day.
> 
> 1,000,000 people watching a wrestling show in a country that's dominated by a population that probably only actually know wrestling as the WWE is actually pretty good, especially when you consider its also a top 5 program each week.
> 
> And Raw and Smackdown actually do pretty well in that climate too.


Definitely agree AEW wiped out NXT's specialness. But on the popularity vs quality thing I'm always back and forth lol. Like on a personal level I definitely agree popularity means fuck all. But then again it's like to have that many fans you got to be doing something right, even if you got behind the scenes extra help you know.


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


> Definitely agree AEW wiped out NXT's specialness. But on the popularity vs quality thing I'm always back and forth lol. Like on a personal level I definitely agree popularity means fuck all. But then again it's like to have that many fans you got to be doing something right, even if you got behind the scenes extra help you know.


NXT has always been in a tough spot. There was a time where they were special and an alternative style to what Raw and Smackdown offered. They had some of the best matches and story telling in the world. However, they weren't on TV and we don't really know what their viewership could have been. Then AEW comes along and offers a similar style of wrestling, but with the added caveat of traveling the country and had bigger names from the start. So by the time NXT hit TV, they had a direct competitor who offered a more popular version of what they were doing. AEW also had the benefit of being considered the anti-WWE, which NXT never could.

Now that version of NXT that was put in a rough spot is being destroyed and rebuilt into a mold similar to Raw and Smackdown, but with less experienced talent. Which isn't a good recipe for success because instead of offering something new, they are just adding 2 more hours of what you get on Monday and Friday. It also has a lower budget feel, so it doesn't offer the visual appeal of it's main roster contemporaries. They may have good talent, but they have a limited audience because very few people are watching 7 hours of the same wrestling in one week. From what it seems like WWE is firing anyone associated with the previous NXT version as well. Which means Vince/Dunn will start to implement their own writers, which could completely alienate those NXT fans altogether.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they literally - like quite literally have the same type of tag matches as AEW
> 
> just he glad its not AAA lucha tag rules - if you can‘t handle this, that style will make you tear your hair out


* I'm not gonna waste extended time flaming these people while they're recovering from a serious illness, so I will conclude this argument by saying they aren't the only offenders, as we literally just saw it in the shitty tag title match on Wednesday. It's an AEW problem. *


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> But then again it's like to have that many fans you got to be doing something right, even if you got behind the scenes extra help you know.


Is that with regards to WWE or AEW?

Regarding WWE, it's because of the brand theyve built up off of megastars from the last 40 years. A loyal fanbase that have stuck with them through some of the worst angles and stories in pro wrestling history.

When it comes to AEW, I guess it's because of a loyal hardcore fanbase that has a company that listens to them, for the most part doesn't bullshit them or disappoint them and does it best to entertain them.

There seems to be a large contingent of fans that want it to grow exponentially faster so that it becomes a significant threat to overtaking WWE as the most watched, most powerful wrestling company in the world. They need to see WWE defeated and AEW just isn't growing fast enough to be a real threat. And I've never understood that.

We saw what happened when TNA tried to shortcut their way to success, they got in megastars and big names, changed everything that made it unique or good, tried to cater to a different fanbase, even moved dates and they have struggled ever since. 

Its that disconnect that causes so much drama. If you take AEW on a year to year growth outlook they are doing great after three years, will likely get a very good long-term tv deal, and have zero possibility of going out of business, That's amazing for a new company in the 40 year shadow of WWE.

That could change someday, but right now I just don't ever see AEW overtaking WWE in ratings, mainstream media, or revenue and for some reason some people see that as failure or "peaking"


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> * I'm not gonna waste extended time flaming these people while they're recovering from a serious illness, so I will conclude this argument by saying they aren't the only offenders, as we literally just saw it in the shitty tag title match on Wednesday. It's an AEW problem. *


come now angel eyes - we aren't arguing

we're discussing 

i can't argue with you


----------



## ripcitydisciple

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they literally - like quite literally have the same type of tag matches as AEW
> 
> just he glad its not AAA lucha tag rules - if you can‘t handle this, that style will make you tear your hair out


You see that with the Lucha Bros.


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> Is that with regards to WWE or AEW?
> "


Nah just in general of things


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ripcitydisciple said:


> You see that with the Lucha Bros.


they’ve at least started tagging

lucha rules is, as soon as someone exits the ring in any fashion, even apron or top turnbuckle i think, the partner is legal

so you can run in and out all the time


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> Nah just in general of things


I mean between 2016 and 2018, The Big Bang Theory was the highest rated television series in America.

And before that NCIS ffs.

Which is a good point in that you shouldn't really be basing what the best wrestling show is on ratings. Unless the same people agree that The Big Bang Theory for 3 years straight was the best television series on television.

Sometimes, I just feel some of these shows get high ratings because people just leave the television on as background noise or something.


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> I mean between 2016 and 2018, The Big Bang Theory was the highest rated television series in America.
> 
> And before that NCIS ffs.
> 
> Which is a good point in that you shouldn't really be basing what the best wrestling show is on ratings. Unless the same people agree that The Big Bang Theory for 3 years straight was the best television series on television.
> 
> Sometimes, I just feel some of these shows get high ratings because people just leave the television on as background noise or something.


I just think there's something to be said about being able to cast such a wide net of enjoyability to folk that sometimes gets over looked because it's easy to shit on the front runner in any field


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Prized Fighter said:


> I think it is much tougher to determine star power in AEW because the shows aren't ever built around one or two wrestlers. WWE built their shows around their FOTC and usually one upper mid-carder all the time so the drawing power could at least be fairly well attributed to them. Punk and Bryan get one segment a week and tend to do well in their segments. I don't expect the average segment to get 1 million and then Bryan and Punk to suddenly get 1.5 million out of no where. No one in wrestling would generate that kind of increase.


Bingo. A lot of people miss this, but AEW doesn’t have one top guy and go with that guy to be a consistent thread in multiple segments throughout each and every show. WWE does this with Reigns, but they will also do it with whoever the flavor of the month for Vince is on Raw. It kills 99% of the roster from ever having a chance to make names for themselves.

Where with AEW rather than all their marbles in one guy, they spread things out throughout their roster on each show. Everyone gets their x number of minutes in one block typically, and then it’s on to the next thing. However this isn’t perfect. While it does help create more fan favorites people can get behind, there is some dilution with the actual bigger stars like Punk and Bryan. Plus I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Tony Khan’s long term storytelling is good. His short term storytelling leaves a lot to be desired imo. Which hurts the TV product sometimes.

Plus even the World Champion doesn’t really get time. Jericho did but I think that’s more due to AEW needing to establish themselves and Jericho was the legend that went there. Moxley, while he had a great reign the complaints about his lack of appearances/being featured when not in title matches isn’t baseless. Adam Page is looking to go down the same path, but at least he has already been working with a much bigger star than Moxley ever did. Omega’s run suffered from the same problem and had a lot of quality issues, but was held up somewhat by the Adam Page storyline/arc, and the Bryan Danielson stuff towards the end of his run. Even then in those cases, it’s like Omega ever was in more than one segment (at least not that I can recall).

Back to the point though, with booking like the above it’s difficult to actually gauge Star power as the quoted post points out. AEW, for better or worse, is more of a team effort vs. WWE’s one man show. AEW tries to bring everyone to around the same level, and while some certainly are higher on the food chain in terms of seemingly like future World Champions/main eventers, AEW doesn’t really book any one person like that. It’s either you were already a star, or you just kinda hope your shtick sticks with the fans with the limited segments you get.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Erik. said:


> I genuinely think it's not much more than tribalism as to why.
> 
> There are ALOT of WWE fans that are just that. WWE fans. They don't care about other wrestling promotions, won't even give them a chance because "it isn't WWE" and believe if you're not in the WWE you aren't worth anything.
> 
> And then when they DO watch an episode, they're constantly in criticise mode. From criticising wrestlers they've likely never heard of, match structure, promos etc.
> 
> Its a shame really. But I get it. I don't watch WWE anymore and haven't for coming up to 5 years because they lost me.
> 
> AEWs hope of growth in North America in terms of fans is WWE driving away wrestling fans away who enjoy other types of wrestling and the younger generation who grow up before theyve got a tribalised favourite.


I also find that most of the core AEW haters are people residing outside of the US, where WWE is all they have ever known.

I think once AEW starts doing world tours you’ll see more overseas posters on this site in particular start to hate less on them. AEW appears well on their way to being more popular than WWE in North America (especially Canada in the demo). It’ll take longer for the rest of the world to catch up to the trend already starting here


----------



## 3venflow

Go Big Show season 2 episode 1 featuring Cody finished 15th on cable with 714,000 viewers and 0.20 in the 18-49. TBS was happy with last season's ratings even though they dropped from the pilot (normal) and it looks to have done similar numbers. I wonder if we'll see DJ Khaled on AEW as a crossover like Snoop was.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Randy Lahey said:


> I also find that most of the core AEW haters are people residing outside of the US, where WWE is all they have ever known.
> 
> I think once AEW starts doing world tours you’ll see more overseas posters on this site in particular start to hate less on them. AEW appears well on their way to being more popular than WWE in North America (especially Canada in the demo). It’ll take longer for the rest of the world to catch up to the trend already starting here


Sorry to be so blunt but I think this is a pretty bad take and also incorrect.

1. Being someone who resides from outside the US the WWE isn't all I've ever known. As a matter of fact me and my wrestling mate in high school all loved TNA and used to get TNA DVD's from a trader because it didn't air here. NJPW was and still is popular here, WWE of course is popular, we even used to have the NWA air here about 15 years ago.

2. How will going to a live show change peoples opinions on the fundamentals of the AEW product? AEW could come to Sydney, put on a kick ass show but I'm not going to suddenly overlook the stupid shit they do because I saw a good live show. I saw WWE in 06 and 3-4 months later I actually stopped watching them forever because of the stupid shit they were doing.

3. How is AEW outdoing WWE in terms of popularity? TV ratings see that WWE has more than double the audience that AEW has, how is AEW going to grow its audience by a million people soon? They can't.

4. The AEW product will never appeal to the majority of the wrestling fans out there and it isn't designed to. A family of 4 from India are not interested in seeing Bryan Danielson and Hangman Page wrestling for an hour on their television screens.


----------



## 3venflow

659k (369k in the 18-49) for BOTB 'fast nationals' - the final number will be higher as per usual with these fast nationals that get leaked by WWE to Zarian and Konuwa. Looks like it'll basically sit somewhere between the usual Rampage and usual Dynamite ratings.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> 659k (369k in the 18-49) for BOTB 'fast nationals' - the final number will be higher as per usual with these fast nationals that get leaked by WWE to Zarian and Konuwa. Looks like it'll basically sit somewhere between the usual Rampage and usual Dynamite ratings.


Thats not bad for a medium card


----------



## thorn123

Decent number, but I don’t get why all dynamite viewers don’t watch things like battle of the belts (and rampage).

But then I also don’t get why all fed and lapsed fed viewers don’t watch dynamite.

I think they just need a surprise X factor talent. But Hogans and Austin’s and Rock’s don’t grow on trees. Hook perhaps? Too small? Too young?


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage

Viewers: 588,000
18-49: 0.24 (308,000)

Up from 453,000 / 0.19 on NYE, slightly down from the Christmas Day special which did 589,000 / 0.26.

It's the highest viewership in the Friday night slot since 5th November and highest in the key demo since 29th October.

It ranked well on cable, finishing 7th on the day.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Rampage
> 
> Viewers: 588,000
> 18-49: 0.24 (308,000)
> 
> Up from 453,000 / 0.19 on NYE, slightly down from the Christmas Day special which did 589,000 / 0.26.
> 
> It's the highest viewership in the Friday night slot since 5th November and highest in the key demo since 29th October.
> 
> It ranked well on cable, finishing 7th on the day.
> 
> View attachment 114889


noice


----------



## Erik.

It's really good that they're seeing better numbers than they had in the past 2 months. Especially the demo. 

In a tweet I saw, I also saw Smackdown did a monster demo. So it's good to see a younger generation watching all forms of wrestling.


----------



## DaSlacker

AEW keeping TNT and TBS relevant every week on the ratings charts, on a Wednesday, Friday and now Saturday night. For 1/6 of what NBC paid for their wrestling.


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## Erik.

HOOK


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> HOOK


to be fair, they had a ratings queen, the Rerun Reigns slayer Bunny video package too


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

I hope Hook does catch on. ngl I'm becoming a fan. His offense looks so freaking good, and his matches in general feel so fresh and unique compared to much of what we see in AEW. Obviously eventually he'll have to have longer matches, and show he can cut promos, but he's got a few things about him right now that are legit great and I think will carry through his career.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1480907250864640001

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*That's a solid number for Saturday night wrestling tbh.*


----------



## Erik.

Solid number for a Saturday show that didn't have too much build towards it's matches.

It done better than Rampage (and most Rampages in history) - which was the better show. 

Just shows that AEW really need to get Rampage moved to Saturday, ideally.


----------



## 3venflow

Battle of the Belts ranked 11th on Saturday behind only ESPN sports programs and a Hallmark original movie. TK definitely needs to angle for Rampage to be on Saturday at 8 or 9pm.


----------



## Geeee

3venflow said:


> Battle of the Belts ranked 11th on Saturday behind only ESPN sports programs and a Hallmark original movie. TK definitely needs to angle for Rampage to be on Saturday at 8 or 9pm.
> 
> View attachment 114926


Man. Sports really dominate Saturday


----------



## Not Lying

I hope Rampage gets moved to Saturday 8pm, might make Rampage more must watch with higher viewership and expectations. It's a shame they dropped the ball with this, they had CM Punk's debut on this show to establish yet within a month later it became repetitive with none main angles happening, just a fun 1h wrestling show.

Should have had Punk debut at Dynamite, if 1.4m people tuned it for his segment Friday at 10pm, I could only imagine more doing so for Dynamite Wednesday at 8pm, they could have topped their debut show.


----------



## 3venflow

Last week's Dynamite (0.43) scored higher than this week's RAW (0.39) in the 18-49. They could possibly do it again, but it's no guarantee since the card isn't loaded with title matches this week. RAW was up against a college football game that did monster ratings on ESPN which explains its drop.


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> Last week's Dynamite (0.43) scored higher than this week's RAW (0.39) in the 18-49. They could possibly do it again, but it's no guarantee since the card isn't loaded with title matches this week. RAW was up against a college football game that did monster ratings on ESPN which explains its drop.


What does a „win“ over a 6.2 competition RAW really does for AEW, besides everyone dooming and glooming the death of RAW? Dynamite struggles to get .4 demo when there is a 0.5 hockey game on.


----------



## Garty

fabi1982 said:


> What does a „win“ over a 6.2 competition RAW really does for AEW, besides everyone dooming and glooming the death of RAW? Dynamite struggles to get .4 demo when there is a 0.5 hockey game on.


What date is that rating data from?

I just looked up last Wednesday and the NHL game was a .21 demo and 626,000 viewers on TNT, while Dynamite on TBS garnered a .43 demo and 1 million viewers. I've seen some of the NHL games struggling to get a .15 demo and 250,000 viewers. The NHL has been a bust on TNT (like most cable/national broadcasts of the past), if not for the immense amount of advertising dollars they bring to WarnerMedia. Outside of the northeast and upper mid-west USA, hockey is a dud.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

ShadowCounter said:


> Smackdown got 3.9 million on its debut show. It hovers around 2.2 million now. Are they super failures since they've lost nearly 45% of their audience? Just wanna know what the rules are here.


The rules should always start with knowing that sometimes shows are treated differently than the average weekly show. 

That said it's not a failure for SD not to have maintained that number it was always an outlier and everyone knew it then and they damn sure know it now. The level of promotion alone is nearly impossible to sustain.

In regards to parallels being drawn between the Dynamite debut and the TBS debut aren't out of line. Both were heavily promoted, loaded shows, with a significant amount of hype. So when you look at both shows in that light and then take into consideration the level of good will that AEW has accrued and the supposed amount of "star power" they have acquired it's not exactly unreasonable to expect better numbers than they are getting for shows at this point. Especially the ones that are heavily promoted. It shouldn't be considered a failure but I get why people might find it worrying.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

RoganJosh said:


> TBS is in less households than TNT.


TBS is in MORE households than TNT.


----------



## Erik.

MonkasaurusRex said:


> The rules should always start with knowing that sometimes shows are treated differently than the average weekly show.
> 
> That said it's not a failure for SD not to have maintained that number it was always an outlier and everyone knew it then and they damn sure know it now. The level of promotion alone is nearly impossible to sustain.
> 
> In regards to parallels being drawn between the Dynamite debut and the TBS debut aren't out of line. Both were heavily promoted, loaded shows, with a significant amount of hype. So when you look at both shows in that light and then take into consideration the level of good will that AEW has accrued and the supposed amount of "star power" they have acquired it's not exactly unreasonable to expect better numbers than they are getting for shows at this point. Especially the ones that are heavily promoted. It shouldn't be considered a failure but I get why people might find it worrying.


Major difference for me is that no one knew what to expect on that first ever show.

So you had people tuning in live with that fear of missing out, similar to the Punk debut for example or the old school Raws you used to get. 

Because that opening premiere had hype of a potential Punk debut and a feeling of anything could happen on this live alternative. 

WWE viewers interested in seeing it, the AEW fanbase, perhaps a few casual wrestling fans who don't usually watch live etc. 

The TBS debut isn't really similar. It was just Dynamite, the same Dynamite that had been in existence for two years moving channels. 

So I'm not sure why anyone would expect big numbers. A jump for sure, with the West Coast being back in prime time, but nothing like opening day debut numbers.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Erik. said:


> Major difference for me is that no one knew what to expect on that first ever show.
> 
> So you had people tuning in live with that fear of missing out, similar to the Punk debut for example or the old school Raws you used to get.
> 
> Because that opening premiere had hype of a potential Punk debut and a feeling of anything could happen on this live alternative.
> 
> WWE viewers interested in seeing it, the AEW fanbase, perhaps a few casual wrestling fans who don't usually watch live etc.
> 
> The TBS debut isn't really similar. It was just Dynamite, the same Dynamite that had been in existence for two years moving channels.
> 
> So I'm not sure why anyone would expect big numbers. A jump for sure, with the West Coast being back in prime time, but nothing like opening day debut numbers.


Even if you use any of the highly promoted PPV quality Dynamite shows in that equation it shows that they really only appeal to a certain group of people. It's not a problem at all but I do think that the people who expected better have a reasonable argument.


----------



## Erik.

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Even if you use any of the highly promoted PPV quality Dynamite shows in that equation it shows that they really only appeal to a certain group of people. It's not a problem at all but I do think that the people who expected better have a reasonable argument.


Again, not really the same.

A North American wrestling promotion on prime time television debuting for the first time in 20 years was ALWAYS going to do great numbers.

Numbers that were never going to be sustainable. Most successful TV shows dont even top their debut episode. Let alone a wrestling show, until it grows subststionally.

Then again, I think it's quite obvious AEW has grown its audience. There's just other means and other ways of watching live television, especially if you don't have cable.

The Dynamite specials are aimed at an AEW fanbase that have followed the stories going in. But they're still not going to draw the same viewership that saw all sorts of people tune in for a ground breaking moment in wresrling back in 2019.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Erik. said:


> Again, not really the same.
> 
> A North American wrestling promotion on prime time television debuting for the first time in 20 years was ALWAYS going to do great numbers.
> 
> Numbers that were never going to be sustainable. Most successful TV shows dont even top their debut episode. Let alone a wrestling show, until it grows subststionally.
> 
> Then again, I think it's quite obvious AEW has grown its audience. There's just other means and other ways of watching live television, especially if you don't have cable.
> 
> The Dynamite specials are aimed at an AEW fanbase that have followed the stories going in. But they're still not going to draw the same viewership that saw all sorts of people tune in for a ground breaking moment in wresrling back in 2019.


Again expecting bigger numbers when more "star power" is available isn't unreasonable. 

If AEW is purposely directing shows towards only their regular audience how can you achieve growth? I mean its essentially saying "don't watch" to anybody that might be new to or still undecided about the product they present. Why does that philosophy not sound stupid to you?


----------



## Erik.

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Again expecting bigger numbers when more "star power" is available isn't unreasonable.
> 
> If AEW is purposely directing shows towards only their regular audience how can you achieve growth? I mean its essentially saying "don't watch" to anybody that might be new to or still undecided about the product they present. Why does that philosophy not sound stupid to you?


Because it's a marathon, not a sprint.

They are three years old and are absolutely growing, at a faster rate than probably anyone predicted. Hence why their average ratings per year are up, their PPV buy rates are up, their merchandise sales are up, their ticket sales are up, their social media numbers are up. Amongst many other metrics.

So whatever they're doing is clearly working.

It's not saying "don't watch" at all - but their pay-offs on their PPVs or special events are for their paying customers. The loyal fanbase that they send home happy. Do you understand HOW important that is to a new business/company? 

We have all seen what happened to Impact when they tried catering towards a different audience. They failed miserably and look at them. The loyal fanbase that was once there have all fucked off completely. Scorched earth.

What I do think is a stupid philosophy is chasing away 50% of your average core audience by continuously disappointing them and giving them a lack of play offs. Hopefully AEW can shy away from that, so far so good on that front though.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dynamite should best that Raw demo i think

0.39 is not too high


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dynamite should best that Raw demo i think
> 
> 0.39 is not too high


AEW have only bettered that twice since September.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> AEW have only bettered that twice since September.


oh rilly?
i thought it was in the 0.40 currently

my bad


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> oh rilly?
> i thought it was in the 0.40 currently
> 
> my bad


Since september:


*05 Jan**0.43*29 Dec0.3722 Dec0.3715 Dec0.3108 Dec0.3301 Dec0.3124 Nov0.3117 Nov0.3710 Nov0.343 Nov0.33*27 Oct**0.40*23 Oct0.2216 Oct0.2806 Oct0.37


I believe from 3rd November to before last weeks show - is when they had the West Coast issues.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Since september:
> 
> 
> *05 Jan**0.43*29 Dec0.3722 Dec0.3715 Dec0.3108 Dec0.3301 Dec0.3124 Nov0.3117 Nov0.3710 Nov0.343 Nov0.33*27 Oct**0.40*23 Oct0.2216 Oct0.2806 Oct0.37
> 
> 
> I believe from 3rd November to before last weeks show - is when they had the West Coast issues.


i mean - that 0.43 is IMO the new standard - TBS, no west coast issue


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i mean - that 0.43 is IMO the new standard - TBS, no west coast issue


Let's hope so.

Here's what they were getting during that average run of millions:


06 Oct1,053,0000.3729 Sept1,152,0000.4522 Sept1,273,0000.4815 Sept1,175,0000.448 Sept1,319,0000.531 Sept1,047,0000.3725 Aug1,172,0000.4818 Aug975,0000.3511 Aug979,0000.354 Aug1,102,0000.4628 July1,108,0000.4521 July1,148,0000.4414 July1,025,0000.40


----------



## 3venflow

That 0.53 they got is still insane. That's on par with Smackdown on network TV.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1481381021157408772

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Erik.

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1481381021157408772
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Riho the draw!


----------



## Prosper

Damn Britt and Riho with that spike. I thought the match was decent. AEW tends to do pretty well on Saturday nights it seems.


----------



## DaSlacker

I think at least 50,000 people forgot it was on due to coming after a string of special episodes: Winter is Coming, Holiday Bash, New Year's Bash, and the move to TBS


----------



## NathanMayberry

Wrestletix are biased as fuck and caught outright lying about AEW’s ticket sales? I AM SHOCKED

Some how 2000 bought tickets but decided not to show up… seems legit











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CovidFan

DaSlacker said:


> I think at least 50,000 people forgot it was on due to coming after a string of special episodes: Winter is Coming, Holiday Bash, New Year's Bash, and the move to TBS


I'm here quite a bit and didn't even know there was a show on Saturday.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Solid sold out crowd there


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Just like a 2001 Nitro hah.

Not a good crowd indeed. I'm not too surprised since North Carolina always seems to have smaller crowds every time I glance at the numbers. Though I guess I should brush up before just spouting stuff like that. 

Definitely curious to know the paid attendance. That's probably 2,500 at the very best and I doubt they all paid.


----------



## 3venflow

WrestleTix's last update from Monday was 4,739 tickets sold, waiting for a final count from him. The problem here was they did a WWE and drew a fair crowd for a smaller facility in a bigger facility (PNC seats 19,000+), which made it look empty. WWE did 6,800 at MSG on Boxing Day and it looked empty, whereas they could've filled a smaller building with that.










Battle of the Belts did 5,400 paid and look at the difference because of where they ran:


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

3venflow said:


> WrestleTix's last update from Monday was 4,739 tickets sold, waiting for a final count from him. The problem here was they did a WWE and drew a fair crowd for a smaller facility in a bigger facility (PNC seats 19,000+), which made it look empty. WWE did 6,800 at MSG on Boxing Day and it looked empty, whereas they could've filled a smaller building with that.
> 
> View attachment 115073
> 
> 
> Battle of the Belts did 5,400 paid and look at the difference because of where they ran:
> 
> View attachment 115074




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1481433969891680259I dunno. Still doesn't look like almost 5K to me. Granted I'm far from knowledgeable on how to guess this haha.


----------



## NathanMayberry

WrestleTix is bullshit.


----------



## La Parka

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> View attachment 115066
> 
> View attachment 115065
> 
> 
> Solid sold out crowd there


Man, I’ve been to OHL (junior hockey) games with more people.

god damnn


----------



## Erik.

Yeah, probably shouldn't run 20,000 are arenas unless they're putting out a big show in a big wrestling city.

They don't tend to sell tickets on the hard cam side anyway, as pointed out numerous times. 

But that's always going to look bad in a 20k seater stadium than a smaller 5k stadium which would have been a near sell out. 

You live and you learn.


----------



## Sad Panda

The hope is to remain steady or a slight increase of viewership going into week 2 of the TBS era.


----------



## Dr. Middy

It was a bad idea to go right back to North Carolina after they had a Dynamite and Rampage only a few weeks ago, and the quite empty building is evidence of this. 

Hopefully they learn to space out locations they travel to so they prevent this.


----------



## Garty

Was there any CV-19 protocols in place for the arena? Maybe some people stayed home due to the omicron variant? Maybe some people were already sick? Either way, that does look much less than the usual crowd sizes lately.

Tony Khan said that they'd be doing a west-coast run sometime in the summer. I don't think they should wait that long, however, the venues they do run in on the east-coast are more CV-19 friendly for fans.


----------



## just_one

my hope for this week dynamite : 1.2M , the reality : 900k/1M


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1481731421366632452

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Since moving to TBS, they've done their two best 18-49 ratings since October so the west coast change back seems to have helped them as expected. Be interested to see where that put them on cable.


----------



## 3venflow

Number 3 on cable behind only NBA. That's very good.


----------



## Erik.

Tied with Raw in the demo. So absolutely not bad at all. 

But Raw did have monster competition. 


This Week - 968,000 (0.39)
Last Week - 1,010,000 (0.43)
Last Year - 762,000 (0.30)


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Not too much of a drop after last weeks loaded show.

They built for the next couple of months very well and that main event was very good.


----------



## DammitChrist

I expect last night's fun opening segment and the thrilling main-event to do very well with the quarterly ratings.

As a bonus, those were 2 of my top favorite highlights from Dynamite this week too.


----------



## ProjectGargano

It was a very good rating! If people say that 647k is good (NXT thread), 969k is amazing.


----------



## Kentucky34

Bad number imo. 

They should have beat RAW which had stiff competition.


----------



## Prosper

They tied RAW in the demo this week nice


----------



## 3venflow

WrestleTix has the final attendance for last night at 4,985. He has a section by section breakdown on his Patreon which is interesting. 941 people on the floor, 245 on the second tier and 4,495 in the 100 level.


----------



## Aedubya

Wrestling Inc reporting this as a negative

Typical of them


----------



## 3venflow

Next week's Dynamite in DC is going to be a full house, though in a smaller location than usual. They're doing a double header instead of joint taping with Dynamite on Wednesday, Rampage on Friday.

Dynamite: 3,841 tickets (98.2%) sold
Rampage: 2,962 tickets (75.7%) sold

I believe it'll be the smallest facility they have used since returning to touring, though it won't be the smallest attendance.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*So the TBS move is a net gain for the demo and a slight loss of total viewership. Tony Khan is probably happy about that.*


----------



## One Shed

3venflow said:


> Next week's Dynamite in DC is going to be a full house, though in a smaller location than usual. They're doing a double header instead of joint taping with Dynamite on Wednesday, Rampage on Friday.
> 
> Dynamite: 3,841 tickets (98.2%) sold
> Rampage: 2,962 tickets (75.7%) sold
> 
> I believe it'll be the smallest facility they have used since returning to touring, though it won't be the smallest attendance.
> 
> View attachment 115089
> 
> 
> View attachment 115090


It is going to be interesting. DC's first level vaccination mandate goes into effect 1/15. You must show evidence you have had at least one dose for everyone 12+.


----------



## Sherlok4

So the overall rating is down from last week and so is the key demo number

But AEW fans like to put a positive spin on things "at least they tied Raw"

I'm in a good mood today so I won't bash AEW

Cheers


----------



## Geert Wilders

Sherlok4 said:


> So the overall rating is down from last week and so is the key demo number
> 
> But AEW fans like to put a positive spin on things "at least they tied Raw"
> 
> I'm in a good mood today so I won't bash AEW
> 
> Cheers


You don’t push 🅿

the positive argument is that the rating has gone up in exactly one year. People whose eyes don’t align argue on a week to week rating fluctuation.


----------



## Sad Panda

3venflow said:


> Next week's Dynamite in DC is going to be a full house, though in a smaller location than usual. They're doing a double header instead of joint taping with Dynamite on Wednesday, Rampage on Friday.
> 
> Dynamite: 3,841 tickets (98.2%) sold
> Rampage: 2,962 tickets (75.7%) sold
> 
> I believe it'll be the smallest facility they have used since returning to touring, though it won't be the smallest attendance.
> 
> View attachment 115089
> 
> 
> View attachment 115090


I’m happy they’re playing the smaller venue. The atmosphere will certainly feel and sound more vibrant. Really makes all the difference. 

So on that Rampage show, do these also film dark?


----------



## 3venflow

@Sad Panda They usually do tape Dark on the rare Rampage live events, yeah. Elevation before Dynamite. But they also have more Universal Studios tapings for Dark coming up so I don't know what the plan is.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Erik. said:


> Tied with Raw in the demo. So absolutely not bad at all.
> 
> But Raw did have monster competition.
> 
> 
> This Week - 968,000 (0.39)
> Last Week - 1,010,000 (0.43)
> Last Year - 762,000 (0.30)





Erik. said:


> Tied with Raw in the demo. So absolutely not bad at all.
> 
> But Raw did have monster competition.
> 
> 
> This Week - 968,000 (0.39)
> Last Week - 1,010,000 (0.43)
> Last Year - 762,000 (0.30)


Just look at the yearly trend.

Raw went from a 0.55 to 0.39 in a year.
Dynamite went from a 0.30 to 0.39 in a year.

To the Showstoppers, RapShephard, Aussie trolls…if you think tv execs that negotiate deals are going to ignore these trends you’re crazy.

When you have 2 wrestling shows doing the same demo, one cannot possibly be valued 3 or 4x more than the other. The TV economics don’t work that way


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Where are the guys who say women run all the viewers away?

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1481755185730961414*


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Below 1 million viewers? Poor Adam Cole's forehead is about to start growing again.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> Just look at the yearly trend.
> 
> Raw went from a 0.55 to 0.39 in a year.
> Dynamite went from a 0.30 to 0.39 in a year.
> 
> To the Showstoppers, RapShephard, Aussie trolls…if you think tv execs that negotiate deals are going to ignore these trends you’re crazy.
> 
> When you have 2 wrestling shows doing the same demo, one cannot possibly be valued 3 or 4x more than the other. The TV economics don’t work that way


You're probably one of those guys that thought FOX would have moved SD to FS1 by 2020 lmao. There's so much more to getting in bed with WWE than just a TV rating. It's a brand. No one outsides the wrestling bubble knows wtf an AEW is.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

RainmakerV2 said:


> You're probably one of those guys that thought FOX would have moved SD to FS1 by 2020 lmao. There's so much more to getting in bed with WWE than just a TV rating. It's a brand. No one outsides the wrestling bubble knows wtf an AEW is.


Remember when AEW had that NBA lead in about a year ago and you had NBA fans on Twitter clowning Jericho for being fat and AEW for being a "bootleg WWE". 

To be fair that's just the general public's perception of wrestlers in general but still.


----------



## Sad Panda

It is crazy how wrestling for a lot of people is still considered taboo entertainment.


----------



## thorn123

What a poor rating for a great show


----------



## thorn123

RainmakerV2 said:


> You're probably one of those guys that thought FOX would have moved SD to FS1 by 2020 lmao. There's so much more to getting in bed with WWE than just a TV rating. It's a brand. No one outsides the wrestling bubble knows wtf an AEW is.


Unfortunately that is true. Where I live no one has heard of AEW. But to be fair most people around here still think it’s rock n wrestling.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

La Parka said:


> Man, I’ve been to OHL (junior hockey) games with more people.
> 
> god damnn


Good games and good teams especially on a Friday night can pack a building. The Aud has always been solid for that kind of thing. Pre pandemic of course.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Sherlok4 said:


> So the overall rating is down from last week and so is the key demo number
> 
> But AEW fans like to put a positive spin on things "at least they tied Raw"
> 
> I'm in a good mood today so I won't bash AEW
> 
> Cheers


They also didn't have the CFP National Championship game as competition like Raw did. People need to take that into account as well before being hyped about matching the demo numbers. We'll see what demos actually look like after the 24th(as this coming Monday there is a Monday Night Football playoff game) when Football is no longer on opposite Raw.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Sad Panda said:


> It is crazy how wrestling for a lot of people is still considered taboo entertainment.


It's not so much that it's taboo people just don't care about it in general.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1481731421366632452
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well this is a L and of course the AEW marks run right to the demo. Tony has made them into some fine sheep! Baaah


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1481842847666302976
* Great job milking all the interest out of Deeb vs Shida. This is completely Tony Khan's fault for spamming rematches.*


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Aedubya said:


> Wrestling Inc reporting this as a negative
> 
> Typical of them


Typical of them to do their job and be honest? lmao


----------



## elo

TBBT repeats are such an enormous lead-in, held pretty well for that opening 30 mins then the structure of the show really did lose the plot and the main event didn't have that HOOK to it so no surprise it never reached those heights again. If Cole/Britt v Orange/Stat is the main event next week and it's built throughout the show it will do a good number, got to structure the show right Tony - I say it week after week, stop frontloading the show and blowing your load on your draws the opening 30 mins, tease them out....give them small segments at the start and have them in meaningful matches at the end, it's not hard.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Well they frontloaded the fuck out of the show. After 9 pm there was no reason at all to watch and it showed.


----------



## Hitman1987

AEW viewership has peaked.

The show needs a continuous thread where the wrestlers in the main event have segments/promos at the beginning and middle of each show.

At the moment it’s like a talent show where people have an allocated time slot and go out and do whatever they can within that time and then disappear until following week (or more).

There’s no common goal or main storyline for the crowd to get behind and stay tuned for.


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Where are the guys who say women run all the viewers away?
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1481755185730961414*


Holy shit what a fucking main event bump. 10%+ increase on Q3. 😍


----------



## fabi1982

So they basically couldnt beat a RAW where basically every American was watching football and with a great lead in from TBBT and with the west coast being not live anymore? Where is this 1.2m avg everyone in here was expecting once the west coast was back on its old timeslot? Still wrong DVRs?


----------



## BestInTheWorld22

AEW has peaked and it's all TK's fault. You shouldn't of signed all of these boring wrestlers from the black and gold era of NXT and you should have actually focused on your own talent. Their roster is too bloated and it's hard to really care about anything. I am slowly losing interest in watching live myself because the black and gold era of NXT bores me


----------



## The_Great_One21

Under a million viewers. 

Embarrassing. They literally had more viewers before signing Punk, Danielson, Cole etc on a ‘smaller’ network.

How do you add those stars and lose viewers?Literally been YEARS now and they can’t grow their audience. Maybe they should try booking a decent show instead of a cluster fuck full of jobbers.


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit Lioness said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1481842847666302976
> * Great job milking all the interest out of Deeb vs Shida. This is completely Tony Khan's fault for spamming rematches.*


Good to see Adam Page still bumping numbers, but it went downhill after his segment.
No Bryan. Sting/Darby not advertised.

The second hour of Dynamite looked like a 1h Rampage show with Garcia/Sammy/Penta/Hardy/Acclaimed. Sammy isn't gona draw vs someone they beat to death.

The trend for Dynamite is never like that. Usually much more stable looking at the past few weeks especially. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474215619138670595

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476748731349454851

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479255448981286912
2 weeks in a row on Dynamite they finish weak with the last couple of segments.


----------



## Randy Lahey

So many retarded WWE trolls in this thread.


Since last year, AEW's demo has grown from 0.30 to 0.39. That's a 30% increase in demo.
Raw's demo dropped from 0.55 to 0.39. That is a 30% decrease in demo.

So one compnay grew their audience by 30%. The other company decreased their audience by 30%, and we got clowns in this thread thinking AEW is a failing?

Vince-bots...please head back to the dead WWE board. You've lost. Take the L. It's like whack a mole in here with a bunch of Wood alts just talking absolute dumb shit


----------



## Randy Lahey

The Definition of Technician said:


> Good to see Adam Page still bumping numbers, but it went downhill after his segment.
> No Bryan. Sting/Darby not advertised.
> 
> The second hour of Dynamite looked like a 1h Rampage show with Garcia/Sammy/Penta/Hardy/Acclaimed. Sammy isn't gona draw vs someone they beat to death.
> 
> The trend for Dynamite is never like that. Usually much more stable looking at the past few weeks especially.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474215619138670595
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476748731349454851
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479255448981286912
> 2 weeks in a row on Dynamite they finish weak with the last couple of segments.


The women's match at the the top of the 2nd hour killed them. Dante Martin-Hobbs also was a big drop. Absolutely nobody cares about any woman on the roster other than Brit Baker, and not many care about Hobbs.


----------



## Not Lying

Randy Lahey said:


> The women's match at the the top of the 2nd hour killed them. Dante Martin-Hobbs also was a big drop. Absolutely nobody cares about any woman on the roster other than Brit Baker, and not many care about Hobbs.


Lmao. Stop lying. Shida/Deeb did well before. The combination of the 4th non-title Shida/Deeb match, Hardy/Penta Acclaimed/BC was have drop, there's not enough star power. Dante/Hobbs are not on the same level as Punk/Adam Page so sandwiching them between their segments was gona cause a drop.

It's obvious what's happening, matches like Lucha Brothers vs Jurassic Express (or insert any spot-fest tag match to main event) with 2 weeks build, and random Sammy vs good wrestler TNT title match is not keep fans engaged till the rest except the hardcore or ones watching out of habit. That's why you see a drop heading towards Q7-Q8 because most people saw what they needed to see and the main event offers nothing but a good wrestling match with no big star, and there's plenty of those. Sammy is not Cody or Darby level draw to main event like that vs anybody for the TNT title.

Last week Page/Bryan and then MJF/Punk, what kept things up for h2 was the TBS title match between Ruby and Jade.


----------



## DaSlacker

Dynamite has peaked because AEW isn't an intriguing thing anymore. There's lots of AEW content out there: 1 hour on TNT, 1 hour specials, 2 hours on YouTube each week. 

AEW as a brand can't really peak, however. Because wrestling as a genre just goes on and on. It's cyclical. All it takes is one good story or character narrative to excite the wrestling world for a while.


----------



## Not Lying

DaSlacker said:


> Dynamite has peaked because AEW isn't an intriguing thing anymore. There's lots of AEW content out there: 1 hour on TNT, 1 hour specials, 2 hours on YouTube each week.
> 
> AEW as a brand can't really peak, however. Because wrestling as a genre just goes on and on. It's cyclical. All it takes is one good story or character narrative to excite the wrestling world for a while.


I'm sure just like the past few years, they'll do big angles around July-Oct. It'll be interesting to see if they match the 1.2m-1.3m they did this past summer.


----------



## CM Buck

Randy Lahey said:


> So many retarded WWE trolls in this thread.
> 
> 
> Since last year, AEW's demo has grown from 0.30 to 0.39. That's a 30% increase in demo.
> Raw's demo dropped from 0.55 to 0.39. That is a 30% decrease in demo.
> 
> So one compnay grew their audience by 30%. The other company decreased their audience by 30%, and we got clowns in this thread thinking AEW is a failing?
> 
> Vince-bots...please head back to the dead WWE board. You've lost. Take the L. It's like whack a mole in here with a bunch of Wood alts just talking absolute dumb shit


Woods gone time to let him go. Quit baiting others


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Randy Lahey said:


> The women's match at the the top of the 2nd hour killed them. Dante Martin-Hobbs also was a big drop. Absolutely nobody cares about any woman on the roster other than Brit Baker, and not many care about Hobbs.


*You get proven wrong every week and still continue to spam this nonsense. Jade's TNT title win outdrew Hangman vs Bryan. If the women get a match with proper build and star power, they have proven in both companies time and time again that they can be the main attraction.*


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## Erik.

The Big Bang Theory lead in is helping big time. 

Just need to structure the show better now.


----------



## Not Lying

The show will be much stronger once it's at full capacity too.

No Miro, no Mox, No Omega, No Cody. Jericho and Eddie are still bickering at each other 3 weeks as 2.0 takes center stage, so their segments are diluted. Sting/Darby unadvertised show-up 2min for a beatdown. 

Otherwise, I think it's worth a shot to put Britt in the opening quarter again and maybe lead with her, are you telling me TBBT fans wouldn't like a hot Dr that can kick ass and talk? That opening number this week was huge.


----------



## 3venflow

Some things I noticed from those QHs are:


Strong lead-in as mentioned from The Big Bang Theory. They should invite Jim Parsons as a ringside guest one week and advertise it during BBT.
Very sharp P18-49 drop for Q3 after Punk/Wardlow was over.
Great recovery right after with MJF again and various promos, including Hangman's. There is definitely a trend that Hangman has a good level of interest in him.
Another very severe P18-49 decline around 9pm when they went into a weaker hour two.
A decent recovery in Q6 possibly oweing to the debut of Brody King and channel changers sticking with it.
The 'match before the main event' slot has often been a problem with Dynamite. It used to be the women's slot but Bear Country vs. The Acclaimed is not going to keep viewers glued with no real purpose behind it. Perhaps this is where you send out one of the big dogs to cut a promo?
Main event did ok I guess. Ideally you'd want a bigger spike for it but it did recover both total and younger viewers.

As for those labelling ratings good, bad or embarrassing (stupid hyperbole) - save your posts and come back at renewal time. That's your measuring stick for ratings in this era, how much networks are willing to pay for the numbers AEW is producing. Spoiler:



Spoiler



AEW is going to make a shitload more money next time they are renewed if they sustain their current 18-49 numbers in a fading cable industry.


----------



## BestInTheWorld22

The_Great_One21 said:


> Under a million viewers.
> 
> Embarrassing. They literally had more viewers before signing Punk, Danielson, Cole etc on a ‘smaller’ network.
> 
> How do you add those stars and lose viewers?Literally been YEARS now and they can’t grow their audience. Maybe they should try booking a decent show instead of a cluster fuck full of jobbers.


Because Cole isn't a star for one. There's a reason the black and gold era of NXT got terrible ratings. Punk is washed. Danielson is the only star on that list....


----------



## omaroo

Calling their recent rating "embarassing" "failure" is what haters love to talk about. Waste of spaces more than anything.

Yes shame its not in the 1.1-1.2 million range. I still believe they can get in that range again.

BUT major improvements from the way the show is structured and flows is the major key for their success.

As said in the other thread Dynamite in particular just feels a mess and has been for quite a few months imo.

Take green as guy like andersons son and the other guy being on the show next week. Both suck and offer nothing yet they are being put on live tv. Wrestlers like that have a place and that place is only on the DARK shows.


----------



## just_one

it seems to me that dynamite right now is missing storylines , engaging storylines.

Omega is missing and like it or not people cared about the elite


----------



## Prosper

just_one said:


> it seems to me that dynamite right now is missing storylines , engaging storylines.
> 
> Omega is missing and like it or not people cared about the elite


Kenny Omega being gone does make the show feel a little different, the roster is stacked and they are fine without him, but his absence did leave somewhat of a black hole. Personally I thought his title reign was magnificent. The Don Callis stuff, the Hangman storyline, the Moxley battles, his matches with PAC/OC, Jungle Boy, Christian (the one on Rampage) I really enjoyed.

I wouldn't say they are missing storylines though. You have Kingston trying to turn Santana/Ortiz away from Jericho, Punk/MJF/Wardlow entangled, Hangman/Bryan that just ended, Supercliq vs OC/Best Friends, the House of Black vs Death Triangle and the Varsity Blondes, Dante Martin vs Team Taz, Andrade/Darby about to start, Paragon/Young Bucks, etc.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Prosper said:


> Kenny Omega being gone does make the show feel a little different, the roster is stacked and they are fine without him, but his absence did leave somewhat of a black hole. Personally I thought his title reign was magnificent. The Don Callis stuff, the Hangman storyline, the Moxley battles, his matches with PAC/OC, Jungle Boy, Christian (the one on Rampage) I really enjoyed.
> 
> I wouldn't say they are missing storylines though. You have Kingston trying to turn Santana/Ortiz away from Jericho, Punk/MJF/Wardlow entangled, Hangman/Bryan that just ended, Supercliq vs OC/Best Friends, the House of Black vs Death Triangle and the Varsity Blondes, Dante Martin vs Team Taz, Andrade/Darby about to start, Paragon/Young Bucks, etc.


I think there is something to be said for missing guys who helped AEW create AEW's identity. Omega and Mox were big pieces in creating who AEW is and Miro was someone who found a way to work very well within those confines. I would even add Cody in there, even if he does tend to do his own thing.

If they were to add Miro, Pac, Mox, Omega, and Cody back to the show, it would add quite a bit. Pac adds another layer to the Black story. A true heel Cody makes the TNT title stuff interesting. Mox coming back after fighting his demons and facing a top guy like Bryan adds a huge feud that we don't currently have. Omega is the biggest piece though. He is AEW and he is the star that makes the Elite/UE stuff better. Playing off of history is a big part of what AEW does and losing half your former world champions limits the stories.


----------



## Prosper

Prized Fighter said:


> I think there is something to be said for missing guys who helped AEW create AEW's identity. Omega and Mox were big pieces in creating who AEW is and Miro was someone who found a way to work very well within those confines. I would even add Cody in there, even if he does tend to do his own thing.
> 
> If they were to add Miro, Pac, Mox, Omega, and Cody back to the show, it would add quite a bit. Pac adds another layer to the Black story. A true heel Cody makes the TNT title stuff interesting. Mox coming back after fighting his demons and facing a top guy like Bryan adds a huge feud that we don't currently have. Omega is the biggest piece though. He is AEW and he is the star that makes the Elite/UE stuff better. Playing off of history is a big part of what AEW does and losing half your former world champions limits the stories.


I agree 100%.


----------



## Boldgerg

The Legit Lioness said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1481842847666302976
> * Great job milking all the interest out of Deeb vs Shida. This is completely Tony Khan's fault for spamming rematches.*


Honestly, do you ever stop ripping on Khan? At any point in the day? Every post I see from you in this section now I fully expect it to be just slagging off Tony Khan for _insert reasons here_.

Bordering on that old bdon with Cody obsession level.


----------



## Kishido

Dat Demo!!! And do not forget the west coast... Million plus in real life


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Started stronger than last week, ended weaker than last week. That’s bad.

Good on the opening two quarters. Punk/Wardlow and Adam Cole’s segment did really well. Quarter with MJF and Adam Page’s respective promos did very well. Rest of the show though wasn’t good quarter wise.


----------



## 3venflow

TK said today that the data shows ratings go up whenever Cole is on-screen so I guess that's why they're putting him on Dynamite and Rampage seemingly every week.


----------



## The XL 2

This is what AEW is, a company about as over as ECW was in 2000. They had an opportunity to be bigger, but they decided to cater to the hardcore workrate types as opposed to getting the millions lapsed fans who stopped watching wrestling. They're lucked they debuted when they did, with a flat WWE product that is basically impossible to watch. Even being a mediocre alternative is enough to get some people because mediocre is still better than awful, which WWE has been for years. 

They try, but its just a thrown together show that doesn't make a lot of sense. Guys that have no business being on national TV being high on the card. Guys like Bryan Danielson and CM Punk, who are the only noteworthy stars the business as had post Monday Night Wars besides Cena, Batista, Orton and Lesnar, doing clean TV jobs in the middle of the card mere months after debuting, guys being in programs and then not being on TV for months, etc. 

On the matter of Punk and Bryan, how do you beat Bryan clean in the middle halfway through your program? At least main event it, have the impression that its a big deal with the announcers selling it as you go off the air. Hangman won in the middle of the card, it was barely sold, and then they just moved on to the next segment. If you're going to have Wardlow squash Punk, make it a big deal. Close the show with it and execute it right. They could have elevated Wardlow if it was done properly, but to have it in the middle of the card and have a phony small package finish killed it. Punk was powerbombed like 8 times including through a table. He shouldn't have been able to hook a small package at all, let alone for 3 seconds. He should have been unconscious. But again, this is what happens when you have a show with no logic or consequences.


----------



## DammitChrist

3venflow said:


> TK said today that the data shows ratings go up whenever Cole is on-screen so I guess that's why they're putting him on Dynamite and Rampage seemingly every week.


It does feel pretty rewarding to see that Adam Cole went from being one of the best highlights on Indy NXT for 4 years to being one of the hot/top talents on AEW who the bigger wrestling audience wants to see more of apparently.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage ratings*

Viewership: 526,000
18-49: 0.20

Down from last week (588k / 0.24), up from the week before that (453k / 0.19).

#15 on cable for Friday.


----------



## 3venflow

Some perspective on wrestling ratings: UFC Fight Night in a 7:15pm slot on Saturday only did 482k viewers and 0.15 in the 18-49.


----------



## RoganJosh

3venflow said:


> Some perspective on wrestling ratings: UFC Fight Night in a 7:15pm slot on Saturday only did 482k viewers and 0.15 in the 18-49.


What channel was that?


----------



## 3venflow

RoganJosh said:


> What channel was that?


ESPN


----------



## RoganJosh

3venflow said:


> ESPN


Fight Night is the equivalent of Dark.


----------



## 3venflow

RoganJosh said:


> Fight Night is the equivalent of Dark.


UFC was on Saturday in a good timeslot and they still lost to Rampage in both categories.

I'm not saying either rating is bad, just offering perspective because a lot of people judge cable in 2022 by 2012 standards.


----------



## RoganJosh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1483230705270550535

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1483889076709298184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1483893986494402563


----------



## Not Lying

I haven't stayed up to watch AEW live in a while, will do that tonight.

Looking forward to this card. I'm hoping they go for Cody/Mox. 2 big returning names going it. Plus Mox as a champion = ratings.


----------



## DammitChrist

I think it’s also possible that Bryan Danielson could confront Jon Moxley tonight too


----------



## Not Lying

DammitChrist said:


> I think it’s also possible that Bryan Danielson could confront Jon Moxley tonight too


Hell yes this would be dope too. AEW has a lot of big names now, lets see these guys clash. I don't care if it's 2 WWE guys going at it, whether it's Mox/Cody or Mox/Bryan. Mox and Bryan were always the type to appeal to AEW more than WWE, lets see them unleash on each-other no restrictions.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Where are the quarterly hour ratings for Rampage?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RoganJosh

Where are the ratings?


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 1,032,000
18-49: 0.44

I believe they beat RAW in the key demo. It was their best number in the 18-49 since 29th September and their best total viewership since 6th October.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484275414700896260

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RoganJosh

Yep. AEW are killing it.


----------



## Erik.

This Week - 1,032,000 - (.44)

Last Week - 969,000 - (.39) 

Last Year - 854,000 - (.36)


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Ratings up because Tony's structuring improved, saving the good shit for last (Sting and Darby).

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484275757266391046
The first hour was hot, then garbage filler until the main event. Remove the garbage and they're in a great place.*


----------



## Joe Gill

Next week we will truly find out if Raw or Dynamite is more popular with younger people below 50. No more monday night football... AEW is on TBS now for a few weeks...no more excuses. Next week will set the tone for which show will be more popular in 2022. Personally I think RAW will score a higher rating but by Summer Dynamite will be averaging more viewers in 18-49 key demo by a decent margin.


----------



## Sad Panda

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Ratings up because Tony's structuring improved, saving the good shit for last (Sting and Darby).
> 
> The first hour was hot, then garbage filler until the main event. Remove the garbage and they're in a great place.*


Agreed. The Mox announcement certainly brought in more eyeballs. Will be interesting to see if those eyeballs strayed once mox left the screen.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Joe Gill said:


> Next week we will truly find out if Raw or Dynamite is more popular with younger people below 50. No more monday night football... AEW is on TBS now for a few weeks...no more excuses. Next week will set the tone for which show will be more popular in 2022. Personally I think RAW will score a higher rating but by Summer Dynamite will be averaging more viewers in 18-49 key demo by a decent margin.


It is a good sign that AEW competition is now Raw, its a sign of AEW evolution with the fans.


----------



## DammitChrist

I expect the Jon Moxley opening promo and the main event featuring Darby Allin plus Sting to have the highest quarterly rated segments for last night.

I wouldn't even be surprised if that thrilling mixed tag match and if that Cody Rhodes promo were among the highest quarterly rated segments too.

Over a million viewers is honestly a pretty good number for them


----------



## Erik.

Sad Panda said:


> Agreed. The Mox announcement certainly brought in more eyeballs. Will be interesting to see if those eyeballs strayed once mox left the screen.


Having a good lead in with The Big Bang Theory is undoubtedly helping them at the beginning of the show. 

So it's smart to open with hot acts in future.


----------



## 3venflow

For the first time in quite a while, AEW Dynamite finished #1 on cable, beating the NBA.


----------



## RoganJosh

3venflow said:


> For the first time in quite a while, AEW Dynamite finished #1 on cable, beating the NBA.
> 
> View attachment 115554


Damn man, only week 3 and they've taken TBS to the top of the demo charts. Hopefully AEW are in for a bonus or help with running costs. And of course not to mention the increase in tv rights when it comes up for renewal.

Great partnership.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Uggghhh…. Good rating and being number 1 is great

but I hope TK and his analysts don’t think what they put out there is ‘the way forward’

Next week should be a great measuring stick - more match heavy


----------



## Sad Panda

3venflow said:


> For the first time in quite a while, AEW Dynamite finished #1 on cable, beating the NBA.


That’s very impressive. Beating a prime time NBA game is no joke.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Something tickles me though

fans who kinda don’t watch or are tuning in for the first time - that Mox promo was a great first impression

imagine dropping an F-bomb On a heckler and everybody being fine with it and the talent not being punished


----------



## Prized Fighter

3venflow said:


> For the first time in quite a while, AEW Dynamite finished #1 on cable, beating the NBA.
> 
> View attachment 115554


3rd highest female demo of the night. The titty master is back!


----------



## A PG Attitude

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Something tickles me though
> 
> fans who kinda don’t watch or are tuning in for the first time - that Mox promo was a great first impression
> 
> imagine dropping an F-bomb On a heckler and everybody being fine with it and the talent not being punished


That's why its so much fun watching, you're watching the wrestlers do their thing not what they've been told to do.


----------



## Prized Fighter

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Something tickles me though
> 
> fans who kinda don’t watch or are tuning in for the first time - that Mox promo was a great first impression
> 
> imagine dropping an F-bomb On a heckler and everybody being fine with it and the talent not being punished


There is something to that, but also I can just imagine the person that was watching the Big Bang Theory and forgot to change the channel.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484285286221680643

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## CM Dunk05

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484285286221680643
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It’s crazy how quickly cm punk has become just another guy. I used to be a huge fan of his but this run just feels flat to me. Glad to see aew get a good number the show had a great card. Its no surprise people prefer watching Cody and mox cut good promos rather then watching two midgets wrestle for 30 mins for no reason.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484287141584773124

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Peerless

Not surprising. Moxley was AEW's biggest TV draw in 2020. Britt Baker and Orange Cassidy had a nice lead in and those two usually perform well in the ratings anyways. It was a mixed tag match which we usually draw well.

Cody's return segment had some hype going for it. I'm sure the 15 min Archer-Kazarian match is what tanked the quarterly hours.


----------



## Erik.

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484285286221680643
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So basically, the first hour.

Don't really enjoy their work but Cole/OC has been a huge draw for AEW.


----------



## Sad Panda

Didn’t Khan say according to metrics Adam Cole has been a heavy draw for AEW since his debut thus why they try to feature him on both programs?


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## Geert Wilders

the mox effect


----------



## elo

Opening half hour was huge.


----------



## 3venflow

Quarter hours below. I feel that BBT is a really great lead-in for AEW.


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> Quarter hours below. I feel that BBT is a really great lead-in for AEW.
> 
> View attachment 115558


Big Bang Theory is HUGE for them.

This and last week proved it.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Man how do you drop that hard for a Sting main event.


Anywho, something about Adam Coles forehead.


----------



## 3venflow

I think Thurston just said on his stream that for a minute or so, Dynamite had 1.7m viewers the other week because of BBT.


----------



## Not Lying

JONNNNNNNN MOXLEY 😍



3venflow said:


> For the first time in quite a while, AEW Dynamite finished #1 on cable, beating the NBA.
> 
> View attachment 115554


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

BBT is a great lead-in, but consider that first TBS episode was 1.101 million and they've climbed each week since then for Q1, it's a good trend they've got going. That 1.2 is the highest quarter they've had since Q2 on 9/29/2021. It's also the highest opening quarter since the Danielson/Omega match the week prior on 9/22.


----------



## DammitChrist

The main event with the Acclaimed vs Darby Allin/Sting helped keep the viewership steady in the end.


----------



## Not Lying

3venflow said:


> Quarter hours below. I feel that BBT is a really great lead-in for AEW.
> 
> View attachment 115558



Still, averaging 1,218,000 for the duration of 15min is highly impressive. Props to Mox.

Props for the Mixed tag. Very good retention for another 15min I’d say. Demo fell way less than viewrship for OC/DMD.

Q3 was shit, filler filler package and quick Punk match with probably peaked it.

Cody loses viewers but gains in demo.

Q5 did alright, but should do better and see a bump. 10min Black, promo , Archer. Black, especially after Cody’s burial, good job retention.

Q6 And as expected a long ass Kaz/Archer match put the crowd and everyone tuned here.

Q7 wasn’t gona be saved by Serena/Sky Blue’s ass (which was just discovered, maybe next time it’ll draw more 😉

Q8 Predictable main event wasn’t gona see a huge rise especially after 30-40min of boring stuff. still A rise in viewership in the demo and in the viewership.


----------



## Not Lying

Sad Panda said:


> Didn’t Khan say according to metrics Adam Cole has been a heavy draw for AEW since his debut thus why they try to feature him on both programs?


OC is a draw. I don’t think Cole will draw anything in single’s feud if he wasn’t feuding with OC. Like I don’t understand people labeling him superstar, he really is not a bigger draw than OC or his wife who were beating him head to head in 2020.
But sure, i’m just gona wait to see Cole without OC how he’ll do. Maybe if he’s with Britt she’ll draw the numbers for him.


----------



## 3venflow

Friday's Rampage QHs:


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484334237813596167

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## InexorableJourney

It's widely reported that Eddie Kingston has an injury and will be pulled, then for the first time since his never ending push ratings return back to normal booming levels. Coincidence?

No, Eddie Kingston is poison.


----------



## Prized Fighter

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484330826670100491


----------



## Hitman1987

AEW viewership has peaked.

The west coast has returned and they have a 1.2m run in from another show and they are still only just breaking the 1m total viewership mark and people consistently tuned out throughout the duration of a show that had 2 main guys return and the majority of their big hitters (Sting and Punk) in action.


----------



## Not Lying

Hitman1987 said:


> AEW viewership has peaked.
> 
> The west coast has returned and they have a 1.2m run in from another show and they are still only just breaking the 1m total viewership mark and people consistently tuned out throughout the duration of a show that had 2 main guys return and the majority of their big hitters (Sting and Punk) in action.


Wana take a bet they’ll be higher by the end of the Summer?
That wasn’t even a big show. How is this a peak.
#1 on cable. lol


----------



## Hitman1987

The Definition of Technician said:


> Wana take a bet they’ll be higher by the end of the Summer?
> That wasn’t even a big show. How is this a peak.
> #1 on cable. lol


#1 is the highest you can get so I would say that’s definitely a peak 😂😂😂

All jokes aside, they can’t maintain the spikes they receive from big moments like Sting/Punk/Danielson and they constantly return to the 1m mark (unopposed and on a better channel) so I would say they cannot maintain their peaks and therefore they have peaked as I don’t think there are any Sting/Punk/Danielson size pops left.

When you say higher by summer, how high would you like to bet and for how long? I’m thinking 1.2m for a solid month?


----------



## Not Lying

Hitman1987 said:


> #1 is the highest you can get so I would say that’s definitely a peak 😂😂😂
> 
> All jokes aside, they can’t maintain the spikes they receive from big moments like Sting/Punk/Danielson and they constantly return to the 1m mark (unopposed and on a better channel) so I would say they cannot maintain their peaks and therefore they have peaked as I don’t think there are any Sting/Punk/Danielson size pops left.
> 
> When you say higher by summer, how high would you like to bet and for how long? I’m thinking 1.2m for a solid month?


Yup. They’ve done their biggest numbers so far for 2 years in a row post Summer/All-Out.
If they got all their pieces back around time, Punk’s in his groove, 1.2m for a solid month seems fair.

Considering all cable is declining, all other shows are declining, and AEW is still maintaining their numbers. That’s good shit. When everyone else is losing 10% and you gain 5% it looks heavily impressive.


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> For the first time in quite a while, AEW Dynamite finished #1 on cable, beating the NBA.
> 
> View attachment 115554


So TNT replaced AEW with hockey: They finish 37th and a 0.15. Dynamite in that slot was usually doing 0.33 to 0.45. 2x or 3x better ratings. 

AEW on TBS: 1st and a 0.44

Clearly wrestling is a massive draw for Turner over hockey no matter what channel the wrestling is on.

And to think the WWE clowns in this thread thought Dynamite was being demoted when they switched channels and got bumped for NHL. Nope, it was a big promotion


----------



## Erik.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484334237813596167


----------



## A PG Attitude

Even if they have peaked which I don't think they have, the network are obviously going to be happy with a show thats ranking number one on the night which means no chance of it being cancelled, as long as they can maintain the viewership and putting on good shows then thats really all we should care about.


----------



## La Parka

It was a good idea to start the show with a big name return who then cut a fantastic promo.

The rest of the show was pretty blah but thankfully Sting and Darby made people stick around.


----------



## Not Lying

Prized Fighter said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484330826670100491


AEW should really have him on the show one day.


----------



## RoganJosh

Randy Lahey said:


> So TNT replaced AEW with hockey: They finish 37th and a 0.15. Dynamite in that slot was usually doing 0.33 to 0.45. 2x or 3x better ratings.
> 
> AEW on TBS: 1st and a 0.44
> 
> Clearly wrestling is a massive draw for Turner over hockey no matter what channel the wrestling is on.
> 
> And to think the WWE clowns in this thread thought Dynamite was being demoted when they switched channels and got bumped for NHL. Nope, it was a big promotion


The usual pessimists on here will tell you that it doesn't matter what crappy numbers the NHL draws, that TNT and advertisers will always value them as a brand. I think that's bullshit, why would advertisers value them when nobody even watches their content? Anyway, AEW seem to have landed on their feet with the move to TBS so fuck the NHL. 

I hear Raw is being shifted to SyFy for a few weeks so USA can broadcast the Winter Olympics. Good luck with that lol.


----------



## Soul Rex

A PG Attitude said:


> Even if they have peaked which I don't think they have, the network are obviously going to be happy with a show thats ranking number one on the night which means no chance of it being cancelled, as long as they can maintain the viewership and putting on good shows then thats really all we should care about.


Well it seems to me that they have peaked, I'd be pretty surprised if they do any much more than this.


----------



## 3venflow

Since the trend with cable is most shows losing viewers and fewer people subscribing to cable, it's hard for any 2+ year old show not to have peaked in the current climate. AEW is about the only wrestling show that has grown year on year, swimming against the tide. RAW, Smackdown, NXT and IMPACT were all down in 2021 compared to 2020.


----------



## Wolf Mark

3venflow said:


> Friday's Rampage QHs:
> 
> View attachment 115565


Pretty good numbers for Cole.


----------



## Wolf Mark

DammitChrist said:


> I think it’s also possible that Bryan Danielson could confront Jon Moxley tonight too


That would have been great to see it happen during Mox's emotional speech. Would have drawn unreal heat for Danielson. That's a match I would really like to see.


----------



## DammitChrist

Damn, I was only 2 days off


----------



## Hitman1987

The Definition of Technician said:


> Yup. They’ve done their biggest numbers so far for 2 years in a row post Summer/All-Out.
> If they got all their pieces back around time, Punk’s in his groove, 1.2m for a solid month seems fair.
> 
> Considering all cable is declining, all other shows are declining, and AEW is still maintaining their numbers. That’s good shit. When everyone else is losing 10% and you gain 5% it looks heavily impressive.


The way I see it, AEW had a viewership of 1.4-1.5m for their first show. Therefore we know there are at least that amount of people who know AEW exists. 

Since then they have become unopposed, invested heavily and moved to a better TV channel yet they still only average 1m.

You say AEW has gained 5% year on year but when you compare the first show to now they’ve actually lost a third of their audience so while other may have lost 10% they’ve actually lost more.

However, AEW is a rare case in the sense that it has unlimited resource and had a ready-made fanbase of WWE haters so if any show on the planet should of gained viewers it should’ve been AEW.

Even if you compare their Sting\CM Punk rating spikes to now they’ve still lost more than 10%.

My argument is that they cannot maintain their spikes and therefore have peaked at those spikes.

I’ll take your 1.2m bet for a month though, what’s the forfeit?


----------



## Not Lying

Hitman1987 said:


> The way I see it, AEW had a viewership of 1.4-1.5m for their first show. Therefore we know there are at least that amount of people who know AEW exists.
> 
> Since then they have become unopposed, invested heavily and moved to a better TV channel yet they still only average 1m.
> 
> You say AEW has gained 5% year on year but when you compare the first show to now they’ve actually lost a third of their audience so while other may have lost 10% they’ve actually lost more.
> 
> However, AEW is a rare case in the sense that it has unlimited resource and had a ready-made fanbase of WWE haters so if any show on the planet should of gained viewers it should’ve been AEW.
> 
> Even if you compare their Sting\CM Punk rating spikes to now they’ve still lost more than 10%.
> 
> My argument is that they cannot maibrain their spikes and therefore have peaked at those spikes.
> 
> I’ll take your 1.2m bet for a month though, what’s the forfeit?


You can't really compare 1 time outlier peaks to averages. Nobody does that. It's not apples to apples comparisons. 90% of shows fall of hill after their debut episode. Look at NXT's debut number, SD on Fox, go see the tv show Young Rock's debut number and fall.

Their average month on month ratings will be higher keep getting better. Not everyone watches live unless it's a big event (like Punk's debut getting 1.4m at 10pm on a Friday night). AEW is obviously not gona appeal to all those that gave it a shot the first episode. The argument is though, how many of those never gave it a second chance? about 200K? 300K max? a lot of you kept telling us for a year plus that "they lost half their audience in 1 year", that they average 700K, max out at 800-850K, but we all knew competition affected them, lack of fans did, and a bunch of other stuff. Well, there goes that ship.

Nobody maintains spikes. That's why they're called spikes. They grow towards those spikes to become average. Like 950K number was a spike for a while for AEW, now it's meh. Now they're averaging a like 1m since TBS.

NXT still lost viewers despite no more competition. This is what happened/happening in a nutshell:

- AEW looks really really good not just because they're gaining viewers while the average cable viewership for others shows is declining. SD/RAW/NXT and TV in general is declining 5-15% year on year and you have Dynamite getting 15-30% (some months) higher than last year.

You say they invested heavily as if those investments don't pay off. Of course Punk/Sting/Bryan are reasons why AEW is thriving way more. But how much would they cost total a year? Well, I'll tell you what. Whatever they cost.
You realize that TNT gave them the TV deal for 45m/year back in January 2020, but it's not like their numbers were crazy in Nov/Dec 2019. They were around 750-950K (They had also gotten in the 600Ks a few times at that point). Now they are doing 950K-1.1m numbers.

Now knowing that other TV shows are declining, other wrestling shows are declining, do you not see how AEW is gona get a shit-load more money next time? like I'd wager around 75-80m/year, maybe more, that's a 30m-35m gain on the last contract. Do Punk/Bryan/Sting cost more than 10m in total? 15m? He'd be getting those 10m-15m and more once renewals comes.

Avi and sig for a month? (I'll let you write something like "TK is a very smart booker who knows what he's doing. Long live the saviour of wrestling )


----------



## RLT1981

Big bang is a monster that was smart moving AEW to TBS and have it follow the BBT


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 594,000 (highest since November 5)
18-49: 0.24 (highest since October 29 except the Xmas Day special)


----------



## Sad Panda

Yeah a card that has Mox, Jade and HOOK? Shit I’m dropping all my Friday night plans.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Thats a nice numbah


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1485719810071740421


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage fared really well in the cable rankings for Friday, finishing 6th despite its late timeslot.


----------



## DaSlacker

It's settling in as a regular fixture, complimentary to Dynamite. Like Heat was to Raw before SmackDown came along.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1485765393625067522

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Overall number was okay, but that quarter 1 number is really good. Best quarter for Rampage since that two hour episode that started with Punk/Hobbs.


----------



## Stevieg786

How are people still watching the Big Bang theory? It finished ages ago, how many times can people watch reruns. It’s not as big as Friends, atleast not in the UK anyway


----------



## Swindle

Stevieg786 said:


> How are people still watching the Big Bang theory? It finished ages ago, how many times can people watch reruns. It’s not as big as Friends, atleast not in the UK anyway


There's a whole market for old sitcoms. People like their comfort food and Sheldon Cooper, you want to talk about 'draws,' that character was one.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Swindle said:


> There's a whole market for old sitcoms. People like their comfort food and Sheldon Cooper, you want to talk about 'draws,' that character was one.


the ultimate vanilla midget


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486380735489617925
So even if you have a shit match or someone that sucks as the first match on the show, it will be the highest quarter rating for the night lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486805685497118720

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

1.1m is their best total viewership since 29th September, which was the tail-end of that big ratings period for them.

The 0.41 demo is actually down from 0.44 last week, up from 0.39 the week before that, and down from 0.43 for the first show of 2022.

Before leaving TNT their demo ranged from 0.33 to 0.37 for the last nine weeks there, so they've improved on that.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Nevermind 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Really good rating for last night, given how weak the card was after Cody vs Sammy:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486806210607300611*


----------



## Sad Panda

AEW just keeps stacking good results since the move.

No doubt the ratings will be similar or even surpass this one with Punk/MJF next week in Chicago.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Business is growing baby


----------



## elo

Key demo trended up for every show (WWEx3 and Rampage) except Dynamite this week, hmmmmmmm......intrigued, what was the competition last night?


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486805685497118720
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486807440297496580

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Sad Panda said:


> AEW just keeps stacking good results since the move.
> 
> No doubt the ratings will higher or even surpass this one with Punk/MJF next week in Chicago.


*Which is why I didn't understand the people making preemptive excuses in case the move failed. TBS is in roughly the same amount of homes with no major sports threat to kick them out of their time slot. They also get those West Coasters back watching in their usual time slot.*


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite finished #2 on Weds in between two NBA slots. Massive M18-49 rating in contrast to the F18-49.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Dynamite finished #2 on Weds in between two NBA slots. Massive M18-49 rating in contrast to the F18-49.
> 
> View attachment 115910


that is great no matter how you slice it - neck n neck with the NBA

edit> NHL in the mud / almost like nxt days with that 0.14


----------



## elo

3venflow said:


> Dynamite finished #2 on Weds in between two NBA slots. Massive M18-49 rating in contrast to the F18-49.


Yeah that male number is insane and the female number is rough but right there with the NBA so probably about as good as it's going to get without going for love angles or "family friendly" appeal which is a path Tony will never go down for Dynamite.


----------



## Sad Panda

Dynamites .43 toppled the game they were head to head with essentially (New York Knicks vs Miami Heat). Granted it was a blow out but those are two legit drawing teams.


----------



## RapShepard

Good number, and with no Mox, Omega, Danielson, or Page


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Good number indeed.


----------



## Prosper

I'm liking the consistency they have found since moving to TBS, average demos looking better as well. 



RapShepard said:


> Good number, and with no Mox, Omega, Danielson, or Page


No Darby Allin either, his segments tend to do well.


----------



## ElTerrible

Linear TV watching is a schedule concept. This has f*** all to do with TBBT. The reason their ratings are getting better is simply the fact that they are ON AIR every Wednesday. It´s simply that these viewers want a regular weekly timeslot to consume a show, not one week on Wednesday, then on Friday, then on Wednesday, then two weeks on Saturday, then a week on a different channel, then four weeks on Wednesday again. Either you have a strict TV schedule or you go on a demand streaming platform.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Very good number. Hopefully they can break into 1.3 million and up at some point as high 1.2 million has seemed to be their ceiling. This was a “special” episode so I’d guess this is the higher end of what they’ll do, but hopefully I’m wrong and this is just the start of the path to breaking their viewership record.


----------



## Prosper

ElTerrible said:


> Linear TV watching is a schedule concept. This has f*** all to do with TBBT. The reason their ratings are getting better is simply the fact that they are ON AIR every Wednesday. It´s simply that these viewers want a regular weekly timeslot to consume a show, not one week on Wednesday, then on Friday, then on Wednesday, then two weeks on Saturday, then a week on a different channel, then four weeks on Wednesday again. Either you have a strict TV schedule or you go on a demand streaming platform.


I'll be happy the day they transition to HBO. I'd happily pay $10+/month for Dynamite/Rampage with no commercials or schedule changes. HBO has plenty of other content to supplement the other days as well. I mean I pay like $20/month for Netflix now and I barely watch it.


----------



## Erik.

Company is on fucking fire. 

The fact alot of their best talent has been missing and they're getting that many viewers is brilliant for them.


----------



## Prosper

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Very good number. Hopefully they can break into 1.3 million and up at some point as high 1.2 million has seemed to be their ceiling. This was a “special” episode so I’d guess this is the higher end of what they’ll do, but hopefully I’m wrong and this is just the start of the path to breaking their viewership record.


I think next week with Punk/MJF in Chicago they will break a 1.2. I just hope it main events, MJF vs Punk is not a match I want to see opening the show, sometimes its nice to build anticipation through the night. Bryan/Hangman was a special case given the story around the match, but last night Guevara/Cody should have main evented.


----------



## chronoxiong

Great number indeed. I get to watch it on the west coast at its normal time too so that adds to the rating.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Another week without Eddie Kingston and another phenomenal rating.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Very good number. Hopefully they can break into 1.3 million and up at some point as high 1.2 million has seemed to be their ceiling. This was a “special” episode so I’d guess this is the higher end of what they’ll do, but hopefully I’m wrong and this is just the start of the path to breaking their viewership record.


*They need the female demo to do that, and they're actively trying with women outside of Britt, so good for them.*


----------



## Geert Wilders

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486805685497118720
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


what's impressive to see is both dynamite and smackdown very consistent. in fact, dynamite ratings have improved, albeit in a very small way, in the last year. considering that less people are subscribing to cable tv, that is really impressive from AEW.

What the graphs certainly show is RAW and SD do indeed cater to the family, while AEW caters to the typical male demo. If AEW could cater to the family while maintaining their key demo, it would certainly be a win-win for them.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Geert Wilders said:


> what's impressive to see is both dynamite and smackdown very consistent. in fact, dynamite ratings have improved, albeit in a very small way, in the last year. considering that less people are subscribing to cable tv, that is really impressive from AEW.
> 
> What the graphs certainly show is RAW and SD do indeed cater to the family, while AEW caters to the typical male demo. If AEW could cater to the family while maintaining their key demo, it would certainly be a win-win for them.


Here are two guys who cater to the whole family.









Ratings increase the week they are both in the main event. Coincidence? Hmmm....


----------



## Prosper

Geert Wilders said:


> what's impressive to see is both dynamite and smackdown very consistent. in fact, dynamite ratings have improved, albeit in a very small way, in the last year. considering that less people are subscribing to cable tv, that is really impressive from AEW.
> 
> What the graphs certainly show is RAW and SD do indeed cater to the family, while AEW caters to the typical male demo. *If AEW could cater to the family while maintaining their key demo, it would certainly be a win-win for them.*


Pretty tough line to walk


----------



## Geert Wilders

Prized Fighter said:


> Here are two guys who cater to the whole family.
> View attachment 115914
> 
> 
> Ratings increase the week they are both in the main event. Coincidence? Hmmm....


Cassidy is a proven draw. I hope this other guy is the same

But generally I agree with @Prosper i think catering towards males 18-49 while trying for family is tough. It’s possible - smackdown have absolutely nailed it. But I wonder if those males who watch the product watch it out of habit.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Geert Wilders said:


> Cassidy is a proven draw. I hope this other guy is the same
> 
> But generally I agree with @Prosper i think catering towards males 18-49 while trying for family is tough. It’s possible - smackdown have absolutely nailed it. But I wonder if those males who watch the product watch it out of habit.


It definitely is a balancing act. For every Brock Lesnar and Roman Reigns, you need a New Day. For AEW they seem to trust OC to be their family friendly act. Danhausen definitely is family friendly and will appeal to kids. My buddy's 10 year old son has two OC action figures and two Danhausen shirts and he only saw Danhausen on YouTube before yesterday.

It is similar to the argument for showcasing the women's division more. It may bring in new female fans, but it could also run off some male ones.


----------



## Sad Panda

Prized Fighter said:


> It definitely is a balancing act. For every Brock Lesnar and Roman Reigns, you need a New Day. For AEW they seem to trust OC to be their family friendly act. Danhausen definitely is family friendly and will appeal to kids. My buddy's 10 year old son has two OC action figures and two Danhausen shirts and he only saw Danhausen on YouTube before yesterday.
> 
> It is similar to the argument for showcasing the women's division more. It may bring in new female fans, but it could also run off some male ones.



Yesterdays Dynamite appearance was my 5 year old and 10 year old daughters first exposure to Danhausen and they are already so interested. There’s no doubt the kids will gravitate towards his character.

They already love OC and Jade Cargill. Cargill mostly because she legit looks like a super hero.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> I'm liking the consistency they have found since moving to TBS, average demos looking better as well.
> 
> 
> 
> No Darby Allin either, his segments tend to do well.


This is true. Hopefully he has one of the more memorable stunts in the jackass movie coming out


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486889869548920833

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*That big bang lead in is giving them a huge stimulus package with viewership, which is why the first segment is always strong. It's smart to capitalize on that. They just have to do better with maintaining interest to prevent those massive drops. Stop putting complete bullshit right after the big angle.*


----------



## DammitChrist

EVERY quarterly segment managed to stay OVER 1 million viewers.

That’s extremely promising for a good product all-around!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Really good the second quarter held up. Good as well the whole show stayed above a million and there wasn't some massive loss in the last couple of quarters. OC/Cole did well. Punk/MJF did well too. The whole show was solid in the numbers.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Next weeks rating with Punk/MJF in Chicago should be massive.


----------



## CovidFan

Good show and good ratings. 

I understand why they put the main event first but they should really at least try putting it last some day.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486889869548920833
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Cody and Sammy kept those lead in viewers spectacularly

then old man Jericho ruins it all


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Cody and Sammy kept those lead in viewers spectacularly
> 
> then old man Jericho ruins it all


*Yes, Jericho sucks, but are you ready to be honest about Hangman's title reign flopping? That promo package did almost as poorly as a low tier women's match that was mostly built on Dark.*


----------



## Geert Wilders

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Cody and Sammy kept those lead in viewers spectacularly
> 
> then old man Jericho ruins it all


The ad break lost everyone


----------



## Geert Wilders

What they need to do is have a strong beginning and ending. The middle isn’t too important. A lot of people will just stick to the show and watch it. 

OC vs Cole is not a strong or worthy main event. 

They need to advertise advertise advertise the main event as soon as the show starts.


I think if they opened up with MJF and Punk, and promised us an explosive main event with Sammy and Cody, the show’s average rating would be higher.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Yes, Jericho sucks, but are you ready to be honest about Hangman's title reign flopping? That promo package did almost as poorly as a low tier women's match that was mostly built on Dark.*


Huh? How can you equate a promo package in an already low quarter to ‘title reign flopping’

you must come take stuff off my top shelf, cause you got incredible reach


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Huh? How can you equate a promo package in an already low quarter to ‘title reign flopping’
> 
> you must come take stuff off my top shelf, cause you got incredible reach


*It was flopping before this, it dropped from Jericho's bad quarter, and it opened its own quarter. There's no reach here.*


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Yes, Jericho sucks, but are you ready to be honest about Hangman's title reign flopping? That promo package did almost as poorly as a low tier women's match that was mostly built on Dark.*


I mean them going from Bryan/Hangman to Archer/Hangman is the main issue to me. I like Archer a lot but there's only so much interest they're gonna get from a filler feud when we know 100% Archer is losing.

They would have been better off using Scorpio/Ethan, Jericho, or somebody else in that spot right now instead that has had a better overall presence on TV. Fans most likely forgot about Archer, and he wasn't doing too much even before he left outside of the win over Moxley awhile back.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dr. Middy said:


> I mean them going from Bryan/Hangman to Archer/Hangman is the main issue to me. I like Archer a lot but there's only so much interest they're gonna get from a filler feud when we know 100% Archer is losing.
> 
> They would have been better off using Scorpio/Ethan, Jericho, or somebody else in that spot right now instead that has had a better overall presence on TV. Fans most likely forgot about Archer, and he wasn't doing too much even before he left outside of the win over Moxley awhile back.


* We had this conversation the day it happened. The Hangman versus Bryan rematch did a smaller number than Jade versus Ruby. He isn't that guy and he never should have been that guy. Lance Archer being his next opponent made it worse, but he wasn't going to draw regardless. He's a mid carder that won the title because someone he had history with happened to be champion. It was always a bad idea and you know this isn't retroactive analysis, because I've been saying since his debut that Bryan should be champion.*


----------



## FITZ

The Legit Lioness said:


> * We had this conversation the day it happened. The Hangman versus Bryan rematch did a smaller number than Jade versus Ruby. He isn't that guy and he never should have been that guy. Lance Archer being his next opponent made it worse, but he wasn't going to draw regardless. He's a mid carder that won the title because someone he had history with happened to be champion. It was always a bad idea and you know this isn't retroactive analysis, because I've been saying since his debut that Bryan should be champion.*


Everyone gets called a midcarder when they first win the title. Like Bryan used to get called a midcarder. The only way to not be a midcarder when you're champion is the lose the title and then challenge someone for the title that is on their first title run. Then they will be the midcarder and you won't be.


----------



## Prized Fighter

The Legit Lioness said:


> * We had this conversation the day it happened. The Hangman versus Bryan rematch did a smaller number than Jade versus Ruby. He isn't that guy and he never should have been that guy. Lance Archer being his next opponent made it worse, but he wasn't going to draw regardless. He's a mid carder that won the title because someone he had history with happened to be champion. It was always a bad idea and you know this isn't retroactive analysis, because I've been saying since his debut that Bryan should be champion.*


It has been said before, but AEW doesn't put their top champion in multiple segments and some weeks they are barely on. Hangman may draw better if he was featured more, but that just isn't how AEW does things. He should be a more expensive part of the show to see what his true drawing ability would be. Until then, Hangman's numbers will be hindered/helped by what else is in his quarter (ad breaks, bad/good matches, etc).


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prized Fighter said:


> It has been said before, but AEW doesn't put their top champion in multiple segments and some weeks they are barely on. Hangman may draw better if he was featured more, but that just isn't how AEW does things. He should be a more expensive part of the show to see what his true drawing ability would be. Until then, Hangman's numbers will be hindered/helped by what else is in his quarter (ad breaks, bad/good matches, etc).


*Moxley drew with their midcard champion format because he's a star. Hangman isn't. *


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit Lioness said:


> * We had this conversation the day it happened. The Hangman versus Bryan rematch did a smaller number than Jade versus Ruby. He isn't that guy and he never should have been that guy. Lance Archer being his next opponent made it worse, but he wasn't going to draw regardless. He's a mid carder that won the title because someone he had history with happened to be champion. It was always a bad idea and you know this isn't retroactive analysis, because I've been saying since his debut that Bryan should be champion.*


Two things:

1. Page/Bryan drew more than Jade/Ruby (total viewers). The three quarters of the former did 1.101, 1.001, and 1.016 (1.039). Jade/Ruby did 1.017 and 1.048 (1.032). Now you can talk about BBT and that being the reason Page/Bryan drew more… but it drew more, period. Jade/Ruby did very well though. It was in less than half of both quarters it was in though… so take that how you will.

2. Two weeks back Page had an advertised promo in a quarter that ended up doing very well (but will note it had other promos in it). Last week he was unadvertised but showed up to confront Archer. I think you could make a case for that being a failing of this angle’s drawing ability since Archer had a lengthy match and you could figure Page was going to show up. This week though? Even I missed the video package when it aired because I had no idea there was going to be one (don’t know if they advertised it at all). It’s also a video package… so yeah that’s not really much of an indication of anything.

Page has been working fine as champion, but this Archer feud isn’t off to the best start admittedly… but there’s really not enough there to say he’s failing. I’m sure this will be a Dynamite title match in the next few weeks and we’ll see at that point how well an advertised Page match can do when he’s not wrestling someone on the level of Bryan.


----------



## Prized Fighter

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Moxley drew with their midcard champion format because he's a star. Hangman isn't. *


Moxley was a world champion prior to AEW existing and has a much longer history. Hangman is in month two of his first world title run ever. Moxley was a known commodity, Hangman is a developing one. First title reigns are always the hardest to be draws, but it is even worse when you aren't the focus of the company.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Two things:
> 
> 1. Page/Bryan drew more than Jade/Ruby (total viewers). The three quarters of the former did 1.101, 1.001, and 1.016 (1.039). Jade/Ruby did 1.017 and 1.048 (1.032). Now you can talk about BBT and that being the reason Page/Bryan drew more… but it drew more, period. Jade/Ruby did very well though. It was in less than half of both quarters it was in though… so take that how you will.


*What kind of Steiner math have you done here? Uncle Dave released the minute by minute breakdown for this one good buddy:









Jade Cargill Vs. Ruby Soho Was A BIG Ratings Draw For AEW


The TBS Championship match drew an impressive audience on last week's star-studded AEW Dynamite.




whatculture.com




*


> AEW Dynamite's ratings were solid across the board last week, though one specific match's numbers stood out as particularly impressive.
> 
> 
> On an episode (5 January) that drew an average of 1.010 million viewers across its two hours (as originally reported by Wrestlenomics' Brandon Thurston), Jade Cargill vs. Ruby Soho peaked at 1.2 million viewers (including 650,000 in the key 18-49 demographic). This, as pointed out in today's Figure Four Online/Wrestling Observer Daily Update, is per the minute-by-minute ratings which aren't always reportedly publically.





> 2. Two weeks back Page had an advertised promo in a quarter that ended up doing very well (but will note it had other promos in it). Last week he was unadvertised but showed up to confront Archer. I think you could make a case for that being a failing of this angle’s drawing ability since Archer had a lengthy match and you could figure Page was going to show up. This week though? Even I missed the video package when it aired because I had no idea there was going to be one (don’t know if they advertised it at all). It’s also a video package… so yeah that’s not really much of an indication of anything.


*The hot crowd went completely flat when Archer was revealed as his challenger and no one gave a shit to watch their subsequent segments in the following weeks.*



> Page has been working fine as champion, but this Archer feud isn’t off to the best start admittedly… but there’s really not enough there to say he’s failing. I’m sure this will be a Dynamite title match in the next few weeks and we’ll see at that point how well an advertised Page match can do when he’s not wrestling someone on the level of Bryan.


*Sure, so you'll concede when their match flops, correct?*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit Lioness said:


> *What kind of Steiner math have you done here? Uncle Dave released the minute by minute breakdown for this one good buddy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jade Cargill Vs. Ruby Soho Was A BIG Ratings Draw For AEW
> 
> 
> The TBS Championship match drew an impressive audience on last week's star-studded AEW Dynamite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whatculture.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The hot crowd went completely flat when Archer was revealed as his challenger and no one gave a shit to watch their subsequent segments in the following weeks.
> 
> 
> Sure, so you'll concede when their match flops, correct?*


1. Not Steiner math, just simple averaging. I wasn’t aware of that minute by minute report you posted, but still Bryan/Page peaked at 1.7 million according to Thurston chart he posted (again we can get into BBT impact but if we’re going to compare minutes then we may as we’ll give as much info as possible).

2. Again though, they haven’t properly advertised a segment between the two. If the eventual match does a subpar number then it’ll will add to the case against Page, but it’s not that black and white. He did well with a red hot Bryan. If he does poorly against an ice cold Archer then its a wash. If he performs poorly in future feuds after that then I’ll concede at that point.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> 1. Not Steiner math, just simple averaging. I wasn’t aware of that minute by minute report you posted, but still Bryan/Page peaked at 1.7 million according to Thurston chart he posted (again we can get into BBT impact but if we’re going to compare minutes then we may as we’ll give as much info as possible).
> 
> 2. Again though, they haven’t properly advertised a segment between the two. If the eventual match does a subpar number then it’ll will add to the case against Page, but it’s not that black and white. He did well with a red hot Bryan. If he does poorly against an ice cold Archer then its a wash. If he performs poorly in future feuds after that then I’ll concede at that point.


*Fair enough. It would also be a completely fair assessment if it's in the second hour, because they wouldn't have the Big Bang boost.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Fair enough. It would also be a completely fair assessment if it's in the second hour, because they wouldn't have the Big Bang boost.*


Agreed. Hopefully Page actually gets to main event a show as champion.

Thing with Page is he did so some excellent numbers when he was chasing the title. It could be a situation (which I think I’ve even mentioned was a possibility) where chasing the belt he was draw but he’d fall flat as champion… but my main point has always been that he needed to be made champion off Omega. Only thing I was really against was Omega dropping the title to anyone but Page. I would’ve even been fine with Page dropping the title to Bryan in the first match, and in hindsight that may end up being what should have happened. Especially with Mox returning and feuding with Bryan now, that’s a bigger feud than Page/Archer. However they need to take chances on guys who are over like Page if they’re really going to grow their audience. Page might not be THAT guy, but there was enough there to take the chance imo.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Agreed. Hopefully Page actually gets to main event a show as champion.
> 
> Thing with Page is he did so some excellent numbers when he was chasing the title. It could be a situation (which I think I’ve even mentioned was a possibility) where chasing the belt he was draw but he’d fall flat as champion… but my main point has always been that he needed to be made champion off Omega. Only thing I was really against was Omega dropping the title to anyone but Page. I would’ve even been fine with Page dropping the title to Bryan in the first match, and in hindsight that may end up being what should have happened. Especially with Mox returning and feuding with Bryan now, that’s a bigger feud than Page/Archer. However they need to take chances on guys who are over like Page if they’re really going to grow their audience. Page might not be THAT guy, but there was enough there to take the chance imo.


*Yeah, this is exactly what I saw happening when he returned-Page being overshadowed by the influx of stars. Now is definitely not the time to play it safe. He'll be easily forgotten when you've got much more interesting programs like Bryan vs Mox, MJF vs Punk, Cody vs The Fans, and potentially Thunder Rosa vs Britt Baker.*


----------



## 3venflow

Ticket sales so far for the next five shows. I'd say sales, while still rock solid, have slowed compared to before and part of that is down to running the same markets over and over. They need to expand their footprint this year.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Ticket sales so far for the next five shows. I'd say sales, while still rock solid, have slowed compared to before and part of that is down to running the same markets over and over. They need to expand their footprint this year.
> 
> View attachment 116125


they keep running florida🤦‍♂️


----------



## TD Stinger

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they keep running florida🤦‍♂️


TBF, they are running Revolution in Florida (although only a building where they can fit 6k, which seems small for a PPV). I was wondering why they were going back to Daily's Place so soon until I realized that.

But all in all, I do agree with the sentiment. They have been running some areas a bit too frequently.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Why are they doing the WCW thing of running PPVs in smaller buildings than their TV shows?

Stop doing that please.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 601,000
18-49: 0.25

The highest total viewership on Friday nights since the Oct 29 edition (Danielson vs. Kingston, Britt vs. Abadon) and highest in the key demo since Oct 1.

#9 on cable.


----------



## Aedubya

Very good


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Solid number.


----------



## Prosper

Damn what did Janet Jackson have going on lol


----------



## DaSlacker

Prosper said:


> Damn what did Janet Jackson have going on lol


Rare indepth interview, apparently. Talking about famous SuperBowl moment, family etc.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Another show without the stink of Eddie Kingston and ratings are through the roof.


----------



## omaroo

InexorableJourney said:


> Another show without the stink of Eddie Kingston and ratings are through the roof.


How dare you talk about such a talented guy!!!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewers: 601,000
> 18-49: 0.25
> 
> The highest total viewership on Friday nights since the Oct 29 edition (Danielson vs. Kingston, Britt vs. Abadon) and highest in the key demo since Oct 1.
> 
> #9 on cable.
> 
> View attachment 116147


dat G R O W TH


----------



## Not Lying

2 title matches and a Mox match, good solid rating.
They can keep doing Jade matches on Rampage, good way to make it her show. They're usually squash matches too so they can squeeze other stuff in there.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> 2 title matches and a Mox match, good solid rating.
> They can keep doing Jade matches on Rampage, good way to make it her show. They're usually squash matches too so they can squeeze other stuff in there.


*I agree, but at the same time, it's weird to me that the TBS Champion only defends on Rampage (TNT) while the TNT title is defended on TBS.*


3venflow said:


> Ticket sales so far for the next five shows. I'd say sales, while still rock solid, have slowed compared to before and part of that is down to running the same markets over and over. They need to expand their footprint this year.
> 
> View attachment 116125


*Chicago is their security blanket.*


Prosper said:


> Damn what did Janet Jackson have going on lol


*A documentary with a deep dive into controversial topics like Justin Timberlake, her father, etc. It addressed a lot of unanswered questions of the last 40 years.*


----------



## ElTerrible

Prosper said:


> Damn what did Janet Jackson have going on lol


 Nothing. People thought she was the Young Bucks sister.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1488618142649798664

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Not Lying

Mox debuts hot and Julia/Jade getting a nice bump there.


The Legit Lioness said:


> *it's weird to me that the TBS Champion only defends on Rampage (TNT) while the TNT title is defended on TBS.*


big time lol.  Huge contradiction but they stuck themselves a bit in this corner.


----------



## Garty

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I agree, but at the same time, it's weird to me that the TBS Champion only defends on Rampage (TNT) while the TNT title is defended on TBS.*


I'm guessing here, but I'd say it's cross-promotion more than anything else.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*@Strike Force Pull up and explain why these men couldn't outdraw Jade Cargill. All of the "no one cares about women's wrestling" folks seem to disappear when they gain the most viewers.







*


----------



## ProjectGargano

3venflow said:


> Ticket sales so far for the next five shows. I'd say sales, while still rock solid, have slowed compared to before and part of that is down to running the same markets over and over. They need to expand their footprint this year.
> 
> View attachment 116125


They need to stop booking Daily´s Place. Nashville is bad aswell. The others are okay to good.


----------



## Post-Modern Devil

The Legit Lioness said:


> *@Strike Force Pull up and explain why these men couldn't outdraw Jade Cargill. All of the "no one cares about women's wrestling" folks seem to disappear when they gain the most viewers.
> View attachment 116187
> *


She barely won in one metric this week after Mox utterly destroyed her and everone else on Rampage the week before. Nobody is talking right now because nobody cares.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Who knew Sheldon Cooper was what AEW needed all along.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Post-Modern Devil said:


> She barely won in one metric this week after Mox utterly destroyed her and everone else on Rampage the week before. Nobody is talking right now because nobody cares.


*Ain't it funny how THE ALL IMPORTANT DEMO is suddenly reduced to "one metric" when a woman wins it? Also, the argument was "women draw" not "Jade will outdraw Moxley." You cared enough to make up lies about women not drawing. *


----------



## Post-Modern Devil

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Ain't it funny how THE ALL IMPORTANT DEMO is suddenly reduced to "one metric" when a woman wins it? Also, the argument was "women draw" not "Jade will outdraw Moxley." You cared enough to make up lies about women not drawing. *


Meh, I lurk here every now and again but haven't acutally posted in this forum in several months so I haven't really made an argument one way or another. I just found it funny how you're here going all "YASS QUEEN" when Jade did worse numbers just a week earlier despite having a bigger role on the card there. No denying Jade's money, just felt your stanning was silly and was worth mocking.

Changing the subject, it's kind of hilarious that Rampage gets its best rating in a long time when neither the Elite or Best Friends aren't anywhere on the card.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Post-Modern Devil said:


> Meh, I lurk here every now and again but haven't acutally posted in this forum in several months so I haven't really made an argument one way or another. I just found it funny how you're here going all "YASS QUEEN" when Jade did worse numbers just a week earlier despite having a bigger role on the card there. No denying Jade's money, just felt your stanning was silly and was worth mocking.


*What's silly is trying to correct me and having it blow up in your face because you end up being wrong about everything. *


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Mox with another good opening quarter. Between that and the TBS title defenses Rampage has felt more important these last couple weeks than they have in months.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489343899059384321

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489344158900834305

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ProjectGargano

Maybe TK is right when he puts the Main Event on the beginning


----------



## Sad Panda

Wow, I’m shocked at that number considering the main event.


----------



## Joe Gill

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489343899059384321
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


surprised they did less than a million considering the buildup for mjf and punk. At some point us older fans are going to have to accept that wrestling has forever changed and for some messed up reason this generation is only interested in meme wrestlers and vanilla flippy midgets. It is what it is.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

ProjectGargano said:


> Maybe TK is right when he puts the Main Event on the beginning


Here’s what I think happened. Opening match and main event got good numbers but the rest got terrible numbers 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RapShepard

I'm shocked


----------



## fabi1982

Wow thats your big money feud culminating to crickets…not watched the show this week as I hate Punk in Chicago. Seems like a lot of US people feel the same. Overhyped idiot.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Punk, Mox, Danielson no drawz - moar Bucks, Kenny, OC, Jungle Boy plz


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Punk, Mox, Danielson no drawz - moar Bucks, Kenny, OC, Jungle Boy plz


You forgot „no Cody“


----------



## 3venflow

It still finished third on cable behind only NBA and South Park, both of which seemed to eat into AEW's usually huge male 18-49 demo by running H2H (SP for half an hour).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> You forgot „no Cody“


goes without saying that the AEW fandom needs its Codelander


----------



## The XL 2

Punk and Danielson's temporary star power is already gone. They're already with the other non difference makers. Not really surprising, they never really drew much in WWE outside of a 3 month run for Bryan


----------



## Chan Hung

I think fans have sadly been programmed now to stick for sure to the beginning of also WWE TV as well as AEW. WWE TV starts off pretty strong, then turns into a bad odor of shit.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Chris Jericho brings up Eddie Kingston's coming back, and 300,000 people tune out.

No surprise here.


----------



## Prosper

Wow that's surprising. This show was better than the last 2 weeks, both of which had stronger ratings. This show also had Punk/MJF for the first time ever.

Still not a bad number and demo but lower than expected.


----------



## Mr316

Very disappointing number.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Embarrassing number. I need to see that chart. Tony Khan should stick with opening with the best match, because it's clear that no one has the patience to sit through an hour and 15 minutes of bullshit, even for their best feud.*


----------



## Mr316

Looks like AEW is losing momentum. Lower attendance recently and you would expect a show like last night to draw atleast 1 million viewers.


----------



## KingofKings1524

Crap number for the kind of show they put on. But not going to lie, I watched the Grizzlies/Knicks game live and then watched Dynamite on the DVR.


----------



## Peerless

Interested to see quarter ratings. Feels like Punk's drawing power has died.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Mr316 said:


> Looks like AEW is losing momentum. Lower attendance recently and you would expect a show like last night to draw atleast 1 million viewers.


This number was disappointing, but I don't see that way, last week they did 1.1M, one of their best number yet.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

ProjectGargano said:


> This number was disappointing, but I don't see that way, last week they did 1.1M, one of their best number yet.


They put their hottest feud in the main event and people didn't bother to stick for an hour to see it. That's not the best sign. It's not the worst sign either but it should raise some eyebrows among fans as well as internally. We should be asking ourselves why as a fanbase people who seemingly are interested in MJF and Punk didn't stay watching the show for the match. Internally they need to ask the same questions. 

For those who say that they should keep the hottest stuff up front in the show that isn't the solution either because people may see that match but just bolt afterwards. You could do that match first and still end up with the same number.


----------



## The XL 2

Peerless said:


> Interested to see quarter ratings. Feels like Punk's drawing power has died.


He never had much to begin with.


----------



## Bone Breaker

The XL 2 said:


> He never had much to begin with.


 Not died. It was killed. Made him work with jobbers since his debut and he lost his first match. Bryan lost his allure after losing to Hangman too. Tony Khan has no clue what to do with star players.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Stay tuned for the next week to have the sky falling on our heads, only for the following week to have a ratings recovery and AEW ’killing’ WWE yet again

repeat x infinity


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Stay tuned for the next week to have the sky falling on our heads, only for the following week to have a ratings recovery and AEW ’killing’ WWE yet again
> 
> repeat x infinity



That's a good bottle of cope for a match as big as Punk vs. MJF to do that bad of a number.


Do you need a bottle opener to open that cope?


----------



## 3venflow

Judging someone's drawing power by cherry picked TV ratings is very flawed in 2022. If you do, then there is no draw since ratings are down across the board (Dynamite being the only wrestling TV show that improved year on year from 2020 to 2021). Jinder Mahal vs. Baron Corbin for the WWE Title on *cable* drew 2.53m in 2017, higher than any Smackdown on *free TV* in 2020 or 2021. Does it mean they're bigger draws than Reigns and Lesnar? No. It means TV and TV viewing habits have changed. Reigns will beat both in other metrics, I'm quite confident.

It's been said many times Punk for example improved nearly all of the key metrics. He is a money maker for AEW for sure.


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> Judging someone's drawing power by cherry picked TV ratings is very flawed in 2022. If you do, then there is no draw since ratings are down across the board (Dynamite being the only wrestling TV show that improved year on year from 2020 to 2021). Jinder Mahal vs. Baron Corbin for the WWE Title on *cable* drew 2.53m in 2017, higher than any Smackdown on *free TV* in 2020 or 2021. Does it mean they're bigger draws than Reigns and Lesnar? No. It means TV and TV viewing habits have changed. Reigns will beat both in other metrics, I'm quite confident.
> 
> It's been said many times Punk for example improved nearly all of the key metrics. He is a money maker for AEW for sure.



Lol, just say it's a bad number. Jeez. Some of you come off so desperate. Like, they've been doing good numbers. This is a badddddd number for Punk vs. MJF in Chicago. Why cant you just say that? Here comes the guys doing mental calculus to somehow circumvent how it wasn't a bad number.


----------



## Prosper

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Embarrassing number. I need to see that chart. Tony Khan should stick with opening with the best match, because it's clear that no one has the patience to sit through an hour and 15 minutes of bullshit, even for their best feud.*


The Mox/Bryan segment and the House of Black tag match weren't bullshit lol come on


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> The Mox/Bryan segment and the House of Black tag match weren't bullshit lol come on


*Mox/Bryan was good, especially for the critics. House of Black was a meaningless throwaway match. Everything after that and before Punk vs MJF was garbage.*


----------



## 3venflow

RainmakerV2 said:


> Lol, just say it's a bad number. Jeez. Some of you come off so desperate. Like, they've been doing good numbers. This is a badddddd number for Punk vs. MJF in Chicago. Why cant you just say that? Here comes the guys doing mental calculus to somehow circumvent how it wasn't a bad number.


I wasn't commenting on the number itself, but on the hot takes that CM Punk isn't a draw of any kind because a show with him in the main event drew lower than the recent average. This board is full of fickle and kneejerk reactions, but saying CM Punk doesn't offer anything on the business front is flat out bullshit and anyone who has ever been involved in business will know why. Guys like Punk are great for any brand.

The number itself is disappointing compared to recent ratings, but a bad number is .20 and 650k, not .35 and 952k. This is more average.


----------



## One Shed

Remember that often times, ratings are based on reception and buzz from the week before.

Last week ended with two small clowns in a pile of garbage.

Also, I think most people did not expect an actual match between MJF and Punk given all the shenanigans before.


----------



## Jbardo37

Let’s be honest, that’s a bad number for a show featuring Punk v MJF which has been built up for weeks.


----------



## Sad Panda

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Mox/Bryan was good, especially for the critics. House of Black was a meaningless throwaway match. Everything after that and before Punk vs MJF was garbage.*


So it was more like 35 minutes than an hour and 15 then.


----------



## Prosper

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Mox/Bryan was good, especially for the critics. House of Black was a meaningless throwaway match. Everything after that and before Punk vs MJF was garbage.*


Its had weeks of build including a HOB debut, it was anything but meaningless. Crowd was hot for the whole thing, especially PAC. I'm just saying that sometimes you can put on a good show and get a disappointing number, we all should know by now that live cable ratings are not the end all be all. Last week we had OC/Cole in the main event, that was the REAL bullshit, and it drew a higher number overall than Punk/MJF who are much bigger stars. It's no ones fault its just the way it goes sometimes.



Two Sheds said:


> Remember that often times, ratings are based on reception and buzz from the week before.
> 
> Last week ended with two small clowns in a pile of garbage.
> 
> Also, I think most people did not expect an actual match between MJF and Punk given all the shenanigans before.


I mean the AEW fanbase at this point is conditioned to know when to expect a great show. We're hardcores and smarks. One week's quality doesn't equal the next. They advertised Punk/MJF ahead of time, so despite last weeks bad main event, the reception to that wouldn't have any true effect to live viewership this week if you actually follow AEW as a brand.


----------



## Dark Emperor

No wonder Punk claimed there are no casual fans anymore.

He clearly doesn't move the needle just as Reigns said. Disappointing.


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> I wasn't commenting on the number itself, but on the hot takes that CM Punk isn't a draw of any kind because a show with him in the main event drew lower than the recent average. This board is full of fickle and kneejerk reactions, but saying CM Punk doesn't offer anything on the business front is flat out bullshit and anyone who has ever been involved in business will know why. Guys like Punk are great for any brand.
> 
> The number itself is disappointing compared to recent ratings, but a bad number is .20 and 650k, not .35 and 952k. This is more average.


You're just one of the handful of guys here who will never, ever, utter one negative word about AEW. Not one. Everything is spin. When the number is good you're on here "man so much momentum, look at that"..when the number sucks you have 3 paragraphs ready with some mention to Baron Corbin from 2017 to spin it to how it's okay and "viewing habits have changed, duh." How convenient. Punk vs. MJF in Chicago not even doing a million is bad. You can't spin that. I mean you'll try, because you're you. I guess other stuff was on TV. Silly me. Funny how that doesn't apply to RAW when it's against, ya know, the biggest sport in America 6 months out of the year.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Lol, just say it's a bad number. Jeez. Some of you come off so desperate. Like, they've been doing good numbers. This is a badddddd number for Punk vs. MJF in Chicago. Why cant you just say that? Here comes the guys doing mental calculus to somehow circumvent how it wasn't a bad number.


Jeez, the guy was making a very good point at giving a concise and accurate assessment/analysis regarding the ratings of both companies. Stop trying to take away from his post by trying to push fans like him into saying something that's misleading.


----------



## Prosper

Dark Emperor said:


> No wonder Punk claimed there are no casual fans anymore.
> 
> He clearly doesn't move the needle just as Reigns said. Disappointing.


Here comes the obligatory WWE stan @Dark Emperor post every week. "Muh Tribal Chief on free TV is more of a needle mover". Reigns doesn't move shit 😂


----------



## Sad Panda

RainmakerV2 said:


> You're just one of the handful of guys here who will never, ever, utter one negative word about AEW. Not one. Everything is spin. When the number is good you're on here "man so much momentum, look at that"..when the number sucks you have 3 paragraphs ready with some mention to Baron Corbin from 2017 to spin it to how it's okay and "viewing habits have changed, duh." How convenient. Punk vs. MJF in Chicago not even doing a million is bad. You can't spin that. I mean you'll try, because you're you. I guess other stuff was on TV. Silly me. Funny how that doesn't apply to RAW when it's against, ya know, the biggest sport in America 6 months out of the year.


He’s actually one of the few posters in this cess pool of a message board that posts actual data and statistics, while 99 percent of the rest are looking at the slightest of slips ups to post hyperbolic nonsense because it’s fits their narrative. The difference between AEW pulling a good number, and them doing a suspect number in this thread is CRAZY. You have folks pop out of the wood work when the number is not as expected. Last week it was complete crickets because the number was good.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> That's a good bottle of cope for a match as big as Punk vs. MJF to do that bad of a number.
> 
> 
> Do you need a bottle opener to open that cope?


oh calm down, when Raw and nxt gets obliterated on syfy next week i’ll be all up in your mentions

and then you’ll be all like


----------



## RainmakerV2

Sad Panda said:


> He’s actually one of the few posters in this cess pool of a message board that posts actual data and statistics, while 99 percent of the rest are looking at the slightest of slips ups to post hyperbolic nonsense because it’s fits their narrative. The difference between AEW pulling a good number, and them doing a suspect number in this thread is CRAZY. You have folks pop out of the wood work when the number is not as expected. Last week it was complete crickets.


Their numbers have been really good. This is really not good. It's okay to just say that.


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> oh calm down, when Raw and nxt gets obliterated on syfy next week i’ll be all up in your mentions
> 
> and then you’ll be all like
> 
> View attachment 116251



Oh you would come gloat about beating a developmental show in front of 50 with maybe 0.5 percent of the payroll of Dynamite. And shit, even with a huge show in Chicago, that developmental show is only about 300k behind lol.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> Oh you would come gloat about beating a developmental show in front of 50 with maybe 0.5 percent of the payroll of Dynamite. And shit, even with a huge show in Chicago, that developmental show is only about 300k behind lol.


we’ll see what Raw / nxt does next week bud

also, developmental isn’t on tv - that would be the performance centre with 200 more trainees (combined, definitely as big a bill as Dynamite)

what is on tv is a tv show, just like any other


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> Here comes the obligatory WWE stan @Dark Emperor post every week. "Muh Tribal Chief on free TV is more of a needle mover". Reigns doesn't move shit 😂


*Reigns leads a show with 2.2 million viewers compared to Punk's 954k. Let's not lie here.*


----------



## Dark Emperor

Prosper said:


> Here comes the obligatory WWE stan @Dark Emperor post every week. "Muh Tribal Chief on free TV is more of a needle mover". Reigns doesn't move shit 😂


Haha love it. He moves the needle more than Punk whether you like it or not

I've just always felt Punk was over-rated and this return is really exposing his drawing ability. And to think people genuinely thought Vince was an idiot for choosing Cena over him.

Anyway, i'm out, i know some of you guys will be sensitive tonight. Just remember before AEW signed Punk they were drawing 1.2m for specials, It's crazy to me they can't draw 1m with him on a big show...


----------



## Sad Panda

RainmakerV2 said:


> Their numbers have been really good. This is really not good. It's okay to just say that.


Bro, he wasn’t even commenting on the number itself. As he stated he was more commenting on the lame ass “Punks not a draw”, “AEW is losing steam” crowd that inexplicably is silent when the fed is rocking 1.1 million, but then when there’s a decrease… the gates are opened and the hyperbolic nonsense is spewed all over.


----------



## DammitChrist

CM Punk managed to get OVER a million viewers for Rampage when he made his long-awaited return in late August, and that was DURING the death time slot too.

He also indirectly sold out an entire arena without anyone even confirming his return, and without any advertisements too.

That's something that the current Universal Champion will never be able to say about his mediocre 'drawing' ability due to his failure as a top guy.

Punk is a much bigger needle mover due to that fact alone.


----------



## Prosper

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Reigns leads a show with 2.2 million viewers compared to Punk's 954k. Let's not lie here.*


It's more like Reigns leads a free cable show for a brand that has 30 years on AEW with 1.9 - 2.0 million viewers average. Outside of Sasha's outfits and the typical Lesnar segment, SD is the drizzling shits. There's no way the show can objectively be any good when 90% of your best talent is on RAW. If Dynamite were on FOX I'm pretty sure they'd be pulling something similar even without the brand recognition. 



Dark Emperor said:


> Haha love it. He moves the needle more than Punk whether you like it or not
> 
> I've just always felt Punk was over-rated and this return is really exposing his drawing ability. And to think people genuinely thought Vince was an idiot for choosing Cena over him.
> 
> Anyway, i'm out, i know some of you guys will be sensitive tonight. Just remember before AEW signed Punk they were drawing 1.2m for specials, It's crazy to me they can't draw 1m with him on a big show...


Lol see above. And it's okay to choose more than one superstar to lead your company at various points of time, so putting all your eggs in the Cena basket for 10 years straight was an idiotic decision. Doing stuff like that is why the Men's Rumble was so putrid, it eventually catches up to you. 

And the previous 2 weeks? Did they not draw over a million? Has Punk not generated an increase in revenue for the company or are you just gonna pretend that he had no impact whatsoever? You people baffle me sometimes lol.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> It's more like Reigns leads a free cable show for a brand that has 30 years on AEW with 1.9 - 2.0 million viewers average. Outside of Sasha's outfits and the typical Lesnar segment, SD is the drizzling shits. There's no way the show can objectively be any good when 90% of your best talent is on RAW. If Dynamite were on FOX I'm pretty sure they'd be pulling something similar even without the brand recognition.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol see above. And it's okay to choose more than one superstar to lead your company at various points of time, so putting all your eggs in the Cena basket for 10 years straight was an idiotic decision. Doing stuff like that is why the Men's Rumble was so putrid, it eventually catches up to you.
> 
> And the previous 2 weeks? Did they not draw over a million? Has Punk not generated an increase in revenue for the company or are you just gonna pretend that he had no impact whatsoever? You people baffle me sometimes lol.


* I don't give a single fuck about your network excuse when FS1 cooked AEW head to head with over a million viewers and no one has that fucking channel. *


----------



## DaSlacker

Surpringly low number. Though all of cable looks subpar, last night. Guessing Big Brother and Amazing Race ate into it, but who knows. 

An enjoyable show nevertheless.


----------



## La Parka

Embarrassing number.


----------



## Prosper

The Legit Lioness said:


> * I don't give a single fuck about your network excuse when FS1 cooked AEW head to head with over a million viewers and no one has that fucking channel. *


Lol don't get all pissy. Now we're going back to the Roman vs Bunny? I'd rather not lol. 

Reigns is not a needle mover, he's just coasting on the brand, moving the needle would mean that his title reign would result in at least a consistent 2.4 - 2.5 mil, so in other words, no one moves the needle. Especially if Rousey and Lesnar can't give them a significant boost. So for people like Dark Emperor to come in week after week shitting on AEW ratings then going silent when they're killing it, while at the same time ignoring the facts and propping up his Tribal Chief as if he's some divine being is something that I will call out and mock.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Way too much tribalism on this forum lmao


----------



## 3venflow

RainmakerV2 said:


> You're just one of the handful of guys here who will never, ever, utter one negative word about AEW. Not one. Everything is spin.


Seriously? That's bullshit. I recommend you read some of my recent posts highlighting my disillusionment with aspects of the AEW product leaning more towards the WWE style of things. At least before last Dynamite.

Unlike some, I have no blood bond to any promotion and will like what I like and hate what I hate. If I like AEW, it's because I like what it's doing, not because I worship the brand name. It doesn't even rank in my top five promotions of all time, it just happens to have been the only good American major league in recent times.

Me sharing my issues with the recent direction:









Bored With AEW right now


part of the problem is aew still has no identity. Even cody has stated they dont have one. So its like who are we? they just come off straight forward generic as a brand, similar to wwe. All Tony cares about is matches and his tweets prove that. That is his focus is just match ups and nothing...




www.wrestlingforum.com





Me criticising Adam Cole:









I can't believe they let Orange Cassidy go over...


Dude why tf would they do that? Especially how much they been building up Cole....Fkin terrible man




www.wrestlingforum.com





Me criticising hour two of Dynamite last week and the main event:









AEW Beach Break 2022: a man and his orange with the...


Well, once again, it is not every day you see the worst thing you have ever seen.




www.wrestlingforum.com













AEW Beach Break 2022: a man and his orange with the...


Orange Cassidy honestly has an awesome babyface fire up




www.wrestlingforum.com







> Funny how that doesn't apply to RAW when it's against, ya know, the biggest sport in America 6 months out of the year.


Why bring RAW into it when I haven't commented on it? Sounds like a defense mechanism of a WWE fan? Are you being what you accuse me of? I don't recall ever posting in the RAW ratings thread on the WWE board.


----------



## Geert Wilders

3venflow said:


> Seriously? That's bullshit. I recommend you read some of my recent posts highlighting my disillusionment with aspects of the AEW product leaning more towards the WWE style of things. At least before last Dynamite.
> 
> Unlike some, I have no blood bond to any promotion and will like what I like and hate what I hate. If I like AEW, it's because I like what it's doing, not because I worship the brand name. It doesn't even rank in my top five promotions of all time, it just happens to have been the only good American major league in recent times.
> 
> Me sharing my issues with the recent direction:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bored With AEW right now
> 
> 
> part of the problem is aew still has no identity. Even cody has stated they dont have one. So its like who are we? they just come off straight forward generic as a brand, similar to wwe. All Tony cares about is matches and his tweets prove that. That is his focus is just match ups and nothing...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me criticising Adam Cole:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't believe they let Orange Cassidy go over...
> 
> 
> Dude why tf would they do that? Especially how much they been building up Cole....Fkin terrible man
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me criticising hour two of Dynamite last week and the main event:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Beach Break 2022: a man and his orange with the...
> 
> 
> Well, once again, it is not every day you see the worst thing you have ever seen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Beach Break 2022: a man and his orange with the...
> 
> 
> Orange Cassidy honestly has an awesome babyface fire up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why bring RAW into it when I haven't commented on it? Sounds like a defense mechanism of a WWE fan? Are you being what you accuse me of? I don't recall ever posting in the RAW ratings thread on the WWE board.


You are explaining yourself to one of the WWE shills. Why?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> Lol don't get all pissy. Now we're going back to the Roman vs Bunny? I'd rather not lol.
> 
> Reigns is not a needle mover, he's just coasting on the brand, moving the needle would mean that his title reign would result in at least a consistent 2.4 - 2.5 mil, so in other words, no one moves the needle. Especially if Rousey and Lesnar can't give them a significant boost. So for people like Dark Emperor to come in week after week shitting on AEW ratings then going silent when they're killing it, while at the same time ignoring the facts and propping up his Tribal Chief as if he's some divine being is something that I will call out and mock.


* Rousey is not a needle mover like she was 3 years ago. WWE is just tone deaf and intent on forcing their original agenda because they're mad that Becky derailed it back in 2018 with her organic popularity. Sasha Banks is the most popular star in the company and she's the actual biggest needle mover in the business, period. Your point about the network goes to shit when WWE on FS1 does better numbers than AEW on TNT. The goal posts keep being moved and more excuses keep being made every time their mediocrity is highlighted. I'm sick of it.*


----------



## omaroo

Really average number when you consider the build to the show. Dropping under a million is a concern.

Apart from the main event which was really good the show once again seemed all over the place.

Silly and stupid promos/segements and some poor matches im sure turned people off.

Not sure what to say at this point as its clear TK and AEW are stubborn in their ways and wont really change where they really should as they just come across as WWE lite more than ever right now.


----------



## Kentucky34

AEW's biggest problem is that they don't have a drawing card like Austin or Rollins.


----------



## Prosper

The Legit Lioness said:


> * Rousey is not a needle mover like she was 3 years ago. WWE is just tone deaf and intent on forcing their original agenda because they're mad that Becky derailed it back in 2018 with her organic popularity. Sasha Banks is the most popular star in the company and she's the actual biggest needle mover in the business, period. Your point about the network goes to shit when WWE on FS1 does better numbers than AEW on TNT. The goal posts keep being moved and more excuses keep being made every time their mediocrity is highlighted. I'm sick of it.*


You're sick of it? Lol please, the original goalpost was that anything around 800K was great. Now we're here with some weeks people saying that over a million is disappointing. The demos were always relevant, its just that you didn't have knowledgeable people speaking to these things on WF until AEW was a thing. The goalposts are not moved by people who actually are fans of the product but by people who are just looking for ways to cut the legs out from under the company. 

As far as popularity, that's not accurate. None of these people are needle movers, gaining an extra 40k people in Q8 isn't moving the needle, especially if the numbers are back down the week after. But the levels go like: 

1.) Roman Reigns
2.) Becky Lynch
3.) Sasha Banks
4.) Seth Rollins
5.) New Day 

If WWE had to choose 2 people outside of Lesnar and Rousey to represent the company, it would be Reigns and Lynch, making them the most popular.


----------



## Cosmo77

Why bring geeks like Rollins in here?


----------



## Randy Lahey

0.35 is def disappointing. Hopefully Tony learns from this and puts all the good stuff in hour 1.

Nyla Rose should never be on Dynamite again


----------



## elo

If South Park is at that time every week then ouch for Dynamite whilst it's around, pretty much a direct crossover of the male demo that watch AEW.


----------



## cai1981

954k and 0.35 last night for Dynamite! That is not good considering they gave away the match "everyone" supposedly wanted to see!


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> You're sick of it? Lol please, the original goalpost was that anything around 800K was great. Now we're here with some weeks people saying that over a million is disappointing. The demos were always relevant, its just that you didn't have knowledgeable people speaking to these things on WF until AEW was a thing. The goalposts are not moved by people who actually are fans of the product but by people who are just looking for ways to cut the legs out from under the company.
> 
> As far as popularity, that's not accurate. None of these people are needle movers, gaining an extra 40k people in Q8 isn't moving the needle, especially if the numbers are back down the week after. But the levels go like:
> 
> 1.) Roman Reigns
> 2.) Becky Lynch
> 3.) Sasha Banks
> 4.) Seth Rollins
> 5.) New Day
> 
> If WWE had to choose 2 people outside of Lesnar and Rousey to represent the company, it would be Reigns and Lynch, making them the most popular.


*I'm definitely not taking a post seriously that has Roman and Becky above Sasha when literally every metric and media outlet outside of wrestling counters that bullshit.*


----------



## Geeee

The ratings make no sense to me. Last week was a great show that did a good rating and this week was a great show that did a number lower than some of the less good shows.

Maybe OC hugging Adam Cole straight to hell killed the town for the NXT 1.0 stans that were watching Dynamite?


----------



## RLT1981

Randy Lahey said:


> 0.35 is def disappointing. Hopefully Tony learns from this and puts all the good stuff in hour 1.
> 
> Nyla Rose should never be on Dynamite again


also Brandi and Lambert segment prob ran viewers away aswell


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Reigns leads a show with 2.2 million viewers compared to Punk's 954k. Let's not lie here.*


The difference between TNT and Fox is like 30m homes, between TNT and FS1 like 10m.
when those 40m homes disappear, SD remains with 800K-1m. What would be clear is that if SD wasn't on Fox, and was in 90m homes like USA or TNT, they'd be nowhere near 2.2m viewers, because those 30m viewers shed a lot of SD viewers, evidence with FS1.
So it is actually more comparable to judge FS1 vs TNT than TNT vs Fox.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> The difference between TNT and Fox is like 30m homes, between TNT and FS1 like 10m.
> when those 40m homes disappear, SD remains with 800K-1m. What would be clear is that if SD wasn't on Fox, and was in 90m homes like USA or TNT, they'd be nowhere near 2.2m viewers, because those 30m viewers gone shed a lot of SD viewers.
> So it is actually more comparable to judge FS1 vs TNT than TNT vs Fox.


*We already pointed out the gap that was in TNT's favor before AEW LOST to the inferior channel.*


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## Not Lying

OMG Brandie really did kill the viewers. the joke was real. 



The Legit Lioness said:


> *We already pointed out the gap that was in TNT's favor before AEW LOST to the inferior channel.*


that's not the point.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*The second biggest loss was Nyla versus Ruby to the surprise of no one. That match was garbage and had no business being on television.*


----------



## RainmakerV2

Get Nyla Rose off fucking TV. Jesus.


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> View attachment 116253


The key demo has no interest in Brandi Rhodes or the random women’s match of the week.

Ive know this forever. Why can’t TK figure it out?


----------



## Peerless

People are going to scapegoat the ratings loss after Q1 on Brandi, instead of looking at the real reason AEW loses 200k of its audience every week by the end of the show.


----------



## Randy Lahey

The Definition of Technician said:


> OMG Brandie really did kill the viewers. the joke was real.
> 
> 
> 
> that's not the point.


AEW fanbase doesn’t want to watch WWE style segments. This is apparent.

Brandi is a WWE type character. So is all their women’s matches.

Leave the women’s wrestling to WWE. And keep Brandi and Cody off the show period. Not even Lambert can save them and he’s quickly lost his heat even


----------



## 3venflow

I don't know why they didn't put Thunder Rosa vs. Mercedes Martinez on Dynamite. I think it might have held viewers' attention more. Because:

1. It'll be Mercedes' AEW debut (not counting the original women's Casino Royal).
2. It has some build from when Mercedes debuted to cost TR against Jade.
3. It's fresh and they don't have many fresh women's matches left.
4. It'll probably be an actual decent match if their recent bout in Warrior Wrestling is anything to go by (they also had another match in October which I haven't seen).

Obviously Rampage needs some quality on it, but it has a couple of interesting men's matches this week and Ruby vs. Nyla could've happened there.


----------



## Sad Panda

Geeee said:


> The ratings make no sense to me. Last week was a great show that did a good rating and this week was a great show that did a number lower than some of the less good shows.


Agreed. It really is puzzling. You would think that with this card and the main event the rating would hit a bit of a crescendo. Truly puzzling.


Randy Lahey said:


> Leave the women’s wrestling to WWE. And keep Brandi and Cody off the show period. Not even Lambert can save them and he’s quickly lost his heat even


Just Brandi, she has no business being on television. Cody’s shit is interesting.


----------



## Randy Lahey

I’d love it if AEW had one episode with 0 women’s matches. Guarantee it’d be the highest rated in months. Women are ratings killers


----------



## 3venflow

Randy Lahey said:


> I’d love it if AEW had one episode with 0 women’s matches. Guarantee it’d be the highest rated in months. Women are ratings killers


I don't think it's possible anymore for a well known promotion in America to not have women's wrestling. The bitching would be endless about sexism, political incorrectness, etc. In Japan, with a few exceptions, men and women's promotions are kept separate. And Stardom is one of the best promotions around.

There have been a fair few women's matches that have done well in the ratings. It's just focusing on the correct talent and looking out for elite women's wrestlers to add to the division. Serena vs. Shida, Serena vs. Riho and Britt vs. Thunder Rosa were quality matches by any standards, but yes, the majority are awkward, average or bad.

I'd prefer a division of six elite women rotating in programs than 15 average wrestlers. It'd be repetitive but at least the work would look good and professional.


----------



## Jay Trotter

Too much was made of the hot start on TBS in the first month. It was driven in large part based on the inflation from their lead-in and truly zero competition for rest of night. As soon as I saw that the Olympics, South Park, and Big Brother were starting back on 2/2, it was destined to be a drop of some sort. Tony was feeding the Punk haters a free dinner by booking this match on the same night. Outside of The Challenge on MTV, it's this type of programming that cuts into their audience. NBA games will fluctuate based on the matchup. I don't see it as a big factor cause you're competing every week. Knew these three having their premieres would hurt AEW last night.


----------



## DammitChrist

Randy Lahey said:


> I’d love it if AEW had one episode with 0 women’s matches. Guarantee it’d be the highest rated in months. Women are ratings killers


I'm willing to bet that the likes of Britt Baker and Thunder Rosa would help out the ratings 

I think Serena Deeb and Ruby Soho (aside from this weird week) are capable too atm.

The likes of Kris Statlander, Jamie Hayter, and Jade Cargill have potential to assist with the ratings too.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

DammitChrist said:


> I'm willing to bet that the likes of Britt Baker and Thunder Rosa would help out the ratings
> 
> I think Serena Deeb and Ruby Soho (aside from this weird week) are capable too atm.
> 
> The likes of Kris Statlander, Jamie Hayter, and Jade Cargill have potential to assist with the ratings too.


Fun Fact: According to Bryan Alvarez, Jade Cargill matches are always the highest rating(when it comes to the demo)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Algernon

The 2nd quarter hour drop has mostly to do with the lead in viewers tuning out and little to do with the talent. When theres only 57k difference between the highest and lowest quarter hour between Q2 and Q8 its just a waste of time to talk about ratings killers. AEW has a very loyal audience. Once you take away the big bump from the lead in, quarter hours are pretty flat. 

Theres a few takeaways here
-the themed shows (Winter is coming, Beach Blast etc) draw better than advertising the actual matches
-Punk, Moxley and Danielson don't bring as many casual viewers as people think.
- the AEW brand itself is the draw. Its for lapsed WWE fans, anti WWE people and the black and gold era NXT fans


----------



## Randy Lahey

DammitChrist said:


> I'm willing to bet that the likes of Britt Baker and Thunder Rosa would help out the ratings
> 
> I think Serena Deeb and Ruby Soho (aside from this weird week) are capable too atm.
> 
> The likes of Kris Statlander, Jamie Hayter, and Jade Cargill have potential to assist with the ratings too.


You could fill 2 hours of Dynamite with Punk, BD, Page, Omega, Bucks, MJF, Sammy, Black and nobody would miss any women’s matches or segments


----------



## Randy Lahey

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Fun Fact: According to Bryan Alvarez, Jade Cargill matches are always the highest rating(when it comes to the demo)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No they arent. We have had quarter hours for the last 5 months to prove that.

Real facts is that I can name 10 different main event level male wrestling acts that are more popular than any woman on the entire roster.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Adam Page with that gain 

Anyway, overall number isn't great. Punk/MJF didn't do as well as it should've, but still solid. They gained back 50k and ended in the top 3 quarters (only separated by 7k) which is fine. It's just not what would've been expected of those two. At least the last quarter should've been a million or more. It's the same thing as Reigns though here there's a certain expectation with Punk (given name value, booking, or whatever it is). I wouldn't chalk it up as a disappointment since it was still above 900k (and the match still gained decently throughout), but it's not a success either. It's very mixed, which isn't a good look for Punk.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Algernon said:


> The 2nd quarter hour drop has mostly to do with the lead in viewers tuning out and little to do with the talent.


It has everything to do with the talent.

Last week, the 2nd Q hour GAINED about 4%. They added viewers from the lead in.

This week the 2nd Q Hour LOST nearly 14%.


----------



## ClintDagger

I think they could do these numbers without Moxley, Punk, Danielson, Cole, etcetera. Those guys are bad investments IMO and AEW would have been better off using that money to figure out a talent development plan. If any of those guys were game changers WWE would have found a way to keep them. If AEW wants to blow up they need to develop some homegrown main eventers.


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> I don't think it's possible anymore for a well known promotion in America to not have women's wrestling. The bitching would be endless about sexism, political incorrectness, etc. In Japan, with a few exceptions, men and women's promotions are kept separate. And Stardom is one of the best promotions around.
> 
> There have been a fair few women's matches that have done well in the ratings. It's just focusing on the correct talent and looking out for elite women's wrestlers to add to the division. Serena vs. Shida, Serena vs. Riho and Britt vs. Thunder Rosa were quality matches by any standards, but yes, the majority are awkward, average or bad.
> 
> I'd prefer a division of six elite women rotating in programs than 15 average wrestlers. It'd be repetitive but at least the work would look good and professional.


But if there are 10+ male acts more hot/over than any women’s act then there just isn’t room to have them on the show.

When you have a roster of:

MJF
Punk
Moxley
Danielson
Sammy
Malachi Black
Hangman
Young Bucks
Darby
Wardlow
Eddie Kingston
Chris Jericho
Adam Cole
Hook
Daniel Garcia 
Jungle Boy
Sting

Sorry, there’s no room for women’s wrestling of any kind on the main show with the talent you already have

Unless you’re doing another blood feud rematch with Brit/Rosa, or a novelty crossover match like Brit/PVZ (idiotic to waste PVZ- a legit fighter- on a bad wrestler like Brandi)- then scrap the division altogether.

If the male roster was weak, sure you could argue some women may deserve spots on the show. But there Is no room now.

Let wwe be the company of sports entertainment and women’s wrestling

AEW needs to be the alternative where they simply put on the most over talent


----------



## DammitChrist

Honestly, I genuinely believe that Britt Baker and Thunder Rosa are on par with the star power/popularity levels of many of those male wrestlers.


----------



## Algernon

Randy Lahey said:


> It has everything to do with the talent.
> 
> Last week, the 2nd Q hour GAINED about 4%. They added viewers from the lead in.
> 
> This week the 2nd Q Hour LOST nearly 14%.


Overall they lost viewers in Q2 last week. They retained more of those BBT viewers with the gimmick match. Either that or you're going to have to give Cody Rhodes some credit so its bittersweet for you.
The story is the same, they lose those BBT lead in throughout the hour and theyre not coming back.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Lower than expected, even the lead in seemed lower as well, which is disappointing. It was nice to see Punk/MJF increase all the way till the end of the show though.

They should open with MJF doing something next week, given that ratings seem to respond to the week prior.


----------



## Not Lying

3venflow said:


> View attachment 116253


There’s no doubt in my mind South Park took some viewers away from AEW. Opening Quarter lower than usual too. Gona be 3 month of ass kicking from South Park.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> AEW fanbase doesn’t want to watch WWE style segments. This is apparent.
> 
> Brandi is a WWE type character. So is all their women’s matches.
> 
> Leave the women’s wrestling to WWE. And keep Brandi and Cody off the show period. Not even Lambert can save them and he’s quickly lost his heat even


The Brandi segment had more viewers than the entire Punk vs. MJF match and was going directly against the South Park premiere. 


The fuck you talking about?


----------



## Randy Lahey

The Brandi segment dropped 14% of the demo. Are you retarded claiming it did better than the Punk/MJF match that gained viewers in the last half of the show?

I got all the e drones on ignore. Took the Randy Orton clown off. I see still more idiocy.


----------



## Cult03

DammitChrist said:


> Honestly, I genuinely believe that Britt Baker and Thunder Rosa are on par with the star power/popularity levels of many of those male wrestlers.


Not because of their in-ring ability. Glad to see you're on the 'looks matter' team though


----------



## DammitChrist

Cult03 said:


> Not because of their in-ring ability. Glad to see you're on the 'looks matter' team though


No, looks are easily the least important quality for a talent to have, and the wrestling ability is MUCH more important.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> The Brandi segment dropped 14% of the demo. Are you retarded claiming it did better than the Punk/MJF match that gained viewers in the last half of the show?
> 
> I got all the e drones on ignore. Took the Randy Orton clown off. I see still more idiocy.



It had more total viewers and demo than the main event. So I mean, okay?


----------



## just_one

i love AEW even the comedy but something is seriously wrong (ratings wise)

Obviously they are missing Omega and Bucks in big storylines and its seems that Hangman doesnt have the star power they thought they have as champion.

Also Bryan/Punk/Cole/Black , they are great characters and wrestlers but arent bringing any new viewers , as much as i love them its the true.

I honestly think Tony Kahn thought getting those 4 guys would help but its not the case , as someone already stated they were having better (or around the same) numbers without them which is weird.

They must find a way to really grow their audience. how to do it? sorry i´ve no idea.

i think it´s clear that no wrestler is truly a draw these days , the only ones who could do something is either Cena or Rock and those wont go to AEW and in a way thats a good thing.

they need to grow their own stars but that takes time and sometimes the right storyline. MJF is a star already more so after beating punk last night, he should be the one to take the title of Hangman 
and then have a babyface Omega return(which would suck because i LOVE heel Omega) but there is a story there with bucks and Cole for sure before going for the title.

The thing i love about aew is the not so over produced feeling of the show (it seems like old attitude era raw in a way ) , it still feels unpredictable which is great (the way wardlow gave MJF the ring and how the annoucers uncover and told/sold that moment was PERFECT). 

Everyone just seems to have fun in AEW , they are happy being there and just wanna wrestle, the feeling around everyone seems pretty good and that comes out to the viewers. 

Also the crowds are always pretty engaging and it seems like a huge party.


----------



## Not Lying

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Adam Page with that gain
> 
> Anyway, overall number isn't great. Punk/MJF didn't do as well as it should've, but still solid. They gained back 50k and ended in the top 3 quarters (only separated by 7k) which is fine. It's just not what would've been expected of those two. At least the last quarter should've been a million or more. It's the same thing as Reigns though here there's a certain expectation with Punk (given name value, booking, or whatever it is). I wouldn't chalk it up as a disappointment since it was still above 900k (and the match still gained decently throughout), but it's not a success either. It's very mixed, which isn't a good look for Punk.


It was a Q5 which always does a bump, honestly Page should be doing better numbers. Given a 2-year story which they refused to deviate from by the end, and then beating Bryan in his first feud, yet he's cold af, he should have lost the belt quickly, he'd have been more over now and people cheering the chase.


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> No, looks are easily the least important quality for a talent to have, and the wrestling ability is MUCH more important.


lol no

Pretty terrible number this week. Especially after last week's.


----------



## Top bins

You usually pay the price for usually what was on TV the week before. And the main event and the outcome of that main event is I believe lead a lot of people to tune out for this week. It's a bad number considering the much anticipated match with Punk vs MJF was main eventing.


----------



## yeahright2

3venflow said:


> View attachment 116253


Brandi as a channel turner confirmed.
I´m surprised Punk/MJF didn´t bring the fans back in. But then again, they´ve shot themselves in the foot by all the shennanigans with Spears, Wardlow etc, so maybe some people thought there wasn´t actually gonna be a match. Bad booking. Punks´ first loss should have been on a PPV.


----------



## Aedubya

Anything above 0.85 is good, anything above 0.9 is v good , anything above 0.95 is brilliant , anything above 1.0 is outstanding


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Definition of Technician said:


> It was a Q5 which always does a bump, honestly Page should be doing better numbers. Given a 2-year story which they refused to deviate from by the end, and then beating Bryan in his first feud, yet he's cold af, he should have lost the belt quickly, he'd have been more over now and people cheering the chase.


Q5 doesn’t always do a bump. 1/12 and 1/19 it lost viewers (1/12 it lost big in a quarter that followed an Adam Page promo). Besides, I was half-joking anyway. It was the only thing big that really happened in the quarter, but it was only a 4 minute segment altogether. The quarter bump is likely due to it (and I’d guess it was closer to 950k or so), but would really need minute by minute numbers to know for sure.


----------



## French Connection

He guys !

Please don't think I'm looking for an excuse to AEW, I admit I'm not completely unbiased, but I would like to know if we have some indicators in the ratings.
I would like to know if we have in these figures the total number of viewers. This would allow us to estimate a market share.

Apart from Fox News (which still has large audiences, especially with old people) and the NBA (which I think has the strongest audience base), does the top 10/15 look similar to previous weeks ?








I repeat myself, I am not looking for an excuse to AEW, but we may be debating too much about the value of a number that may not represent the same share.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Adam Page with that gain


*What an impressive feat-following a Brandy Rhodes trainwreck 😂.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit Lioness said:


> *What an impressive feat-following a Brandy Rhodes trainwreck 😂.*


Advertised Adam Page=Gain.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Advertised Adam Page=Gain.


*Fair is fair. It's technically true and I would fry his ass if he lost viewers on a shit show like this.







*


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> OMG Brandie really did kill the viewers. the joke was real.
> 
> 
> 
> that's not the point.


Funny thing Brandi had the second highest „demo“ rating, so looks like the viewers who TK is aiming for WANT to see Brandi?!


----------



## Rankles75

Surprisingly poor number, although they don’t help themselves by having a champion who’s an afterthought and giving a useless waste of oxygen like Nyla Rose valuable airtime.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*For those still in here on that "women don't draw" bullshit:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489694114979274755
Ruby and Nyla aren't anti-draws because they're women, they can't draw because they SUCK! Britt is a star, Jade is a star, and Thunder Rosa and Riho do good ratings as well. *


----------



## Whoanma

The Legit Lioness said:


> *does good ratings as well. *


----------



## BestInTheWorld22

What a shocker, washed up Punk isn't a draw lol...Also get trash can acts like Nyla Rose abs Vickie Guerrero off TV too. Also cut the comedy garbage like Danhausen...


----------



## Cult03

The Legit Lioness said:


> *For those still in here on that "women don't draw" bullshit:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489694114979274755
> Ruby and Nyla aren't anti-draws because they're women, they can't draw because they SUCK! Britt is a star, Jade is a star, and Thunder Rosa and Riho do good ratings as well. *


Breaking news, genetic freak (who is also hot) draws on a wrestling show. More at 7


----------



## Chip Chipperson

3venflow said:


> I don't think it's possible anymore for a well known promotion in America to not have women's wrestling. The bitching would be endless about sexism, political incorrectness, etc. In Japan, with a few exceptions, men and women's promotions are kept separate. And Stardom is one of the best promotions around.


You can have women's representation and not have women actually wrestling. Look at WCW, they never really had a women's division but still had plenty of women around the show.

It'd be a breath of fresh air I think, very few women running around in wrestling today are as good as the men anyway.

As for Stardom, yeah they're probably the number 1 women's only promotion in the world but how do they draw?

Here's their last few attendances:

22.01.2022: 304

23.01.2022: 411

29.01.2022: 1306

01.02.2022: 656 (Big Korakuen Hall show)

Not only do they not draw that great but the fans are pretty weird (There is a documentary you should check out about Stardom showing the fans) and the women are treated very badly and are massively underpaid. They said in the Stardom documentary that the promoter despite ripping people off doesn't really make any money and it's a labour of love.

Women's wrestling is a niche I'm afraid.




The Legit Lioness said:


> *For those still in here on that "women don't draw" bullshit:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489694114979274755
> Ruby and Nyla aren't anti-draws because they're women, they can't draw because they SUCK! Britt is a star, Jade is a star, and Thunder Rosa and Riho do good ratings as well. *


I don't think women draw for the reason you think they do.

I'm all for athletic women getting out there and doing crazy shit that men can't do but I'd say most people are watching women's wrestling because the girls are hot and that two women rolling around fighting is a turn on for most.

If Britt Baker were a male she'd be on Dark, Jade would be lost in the shuffle as would Rosa and Riho.


----------



## Whoanma

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Thunder Rosa and Riho do good ratings as well.*


----------



## Wolf Mark

just_one said:


> i love AEW even the comedy but something is seriously wrong (ratings wise)
> 
> Obviously they are missing Omega and Bucks in big storylines and its seems that Hangman doesnt have the star power they thought they have as champion.
> 
> Also Bryan/Punk/Cole/Black , they are great characters and wrestlers but arent bringing any new viewers , as much as i love them its the true.
> 
> I honestly think Tony Kahn thought getting those 4 guys would help but its not the case , as someone already stated they were having better (or around the same) numbers without them which is weird.
> 
> They must find a way to really grow their audience. how to do it? sorry i´ve no idea.
> 
> i think it´s clear that no wrestler is truly a draw these days , the only ones who could do something is either Cena or Rock and those wont go to AEW and in a way thats a good thing.
> 
> they need to grow their own stars but that takes time and sometimes the right storyline. MJF is a star already more so after beating punk last night, he should be the one to take the title of Hangman
> and then have a babyface Omega return(which would suck because i LOVE heel Omega) but there is a story there with bucks and Cole for sure before going for the title.
> 
> The thing i love about aew is the not so over produced feeling of the show (it seems like old attitude era raw in a way ) , it still feels unpredictable which is great (the way wardlow gave MJF the ring and how the annoucers uncover and told/sold that moment was PERFECT).
> 
> Everyone just seems to have fun in AEW , they are happy being there and just wanna wrestle, the feeling around everyone seems pretty good and that comes out to the viewers.
> 
> Also the crowds are always pretty engaging and it seems like a huge party.


Wrestlers can be a draw but you have to build expectations. And TK has shown that he cannot do it. He's been given all these guys on a silver platter and he never managed to create a momentum to help the ratings, to build a continuing rise. His ways to book wrestlers is to have them show up, do a promo and wrestle. That's why the novelty of Punk was over after a week. 

And I knew this would happen. Many of us here knew it. I was like "look Punk and Bryan are coming in, you have no excuses, Tony. Don't fuck this up". But again, no story, just wrestling and poor build ups. He could have ushered in a new era of wrestling. He just plainly doesn't get it. Booking wrestling on TV is not the same as booking indy house shows.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> You can have women's representation and not have women actually wrestling. Look at WCW, they never really had a women's division but still had plenty of women around the show.
> 
> It'd be a breath of fresh air I think, very few women running around in wrestling today are as good as the men anyway.
> 
> As for Stardom, yeah they're probably the number 1 women's only promotion in the world but how do they draw?
> 
> Here's their last few attendances:
> 
> 22.01.2022: 304
> 
> 23.01.2022: 411
> 
> 29.01.2022: 1306
> 
> 01.02.2022: 656 (Big Korakuen Hall show)
> 
> Not only do they not draw that great but the fans are pretty weird (There is a documentary you should check out about Stardom showing the fans) and the women are treated very badly and are massively underpaid. They said in the Stardom documentary that the promoter despite ripping people off doesn't really make any money and it's a labour of love.
> 
> Women's wrestling is a niche I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think women draw for the reason you think they do.
> 
> I'm all for athletic women getting out there and doing crazy shit that men can't do but I'd say most people are watching women's wrestling because the girls are hot and that two women rolling around fighting is a turn on for most.
> 
> If Britt Baker were a male she'd be on Dark, Jade would be lost in the shuffle as would Rosa and Riho.


While you’re not wrong, Cancel Culture would eat them alive if they went that route. Look back at the beginning of Dynamite: there were weekly Twitter threads from non-wrestling people crying that the women weren’t being given a fair shake.


Wolf Mark said:


> Wrestlers can be a draw but you have to build expectations. And TK has shown that he cannot do it. He's been given all these guys on a silver platter and he never managed to create a momentum to help the ratings, to build a continuing rise. His ways to book wrestlers is to have them show up, do a promo and wrestle. That's why the novelty of Punk was over after a week.
> 
> And I knew this would happen. Many of us here knew it. I was like "look Punk and Bryan are coming in, you have no excuses, Tony. Don't fuck this up". But again, no story, just wrestling and poor build ups. He could have ushered in a new era of wrestling. He just plainly doesn't get it. Booking wrestling on TV is not the same as booking indy house shows.


That and Punk just isn’t the draw many expected him to be. They have literally changed the entire goddamn dynamic of the show to placate Punk’s style, and upon a free payoff, he couldn’t draw what a typical Omega (and even Cody before I’m labeled as being biased) would do.


----------



## Wolf Mark

bdon said:


> While you’re not wrong, Cancel Culture would eat them alive if they went that route. Look back at the beginning of Dynamite: there were weekly Twitter threads from non-wrestling people crying that the women weren’t being given a fair shake.
> 
> That and Punk just isn’t the draw many expected him to be. They have literally changed the entire goddamn dynamic of the show to placate Punk’s style, and upon a free payoff, he couldn’t draw what a typical Omega (and even Cody before I’m labeled as being biased) would do.


You may be right that maybe Punk is not the draw that we thought. But I mean I would say that Razor Ramon was less of a superstar than Punk was when he came in and yet WCW created intrigue around him, they milked it so well that it became the most popular wrestling storyline in history. They took the time to do something interesting beyond "let's have a match". Fans were not interested in any wrestling matches, they wanted to know why a bunch of guys were trying to invade WCW! And weeks by weeks, months by months, year after year the ratings kept growing for Nitro. AEW is still at the same place they were at the very first Dynamite rating-wise.


----------



## bdon

Wolf Mark said:


> You may be right that maybe Punk is not the draw that we thought. But I mean I would say that Razor Ramon was less of a superstar than Punk was when he came in and yet WCW created intrigue around him, they milked it so well that it became the most popular wrestling storyline in history. They took the time to do something interesting beyond "let's have a match". Fans were not interested in any wrestling matches, they wanted to know why a bunch of guys were trying to invade WCW! And weeks by weeks, months by months, year after year the ratings kept growing for Nitro. AEW is still at the same place they were at the very first Dynamite rating-wise.


Because wrestling is dying. Boxing faced the same thing. NBA ratings are down too. Relative to everything else, wrestling in general is holding serve better than ratings across the board.

You can make of that what you will, but when cord cutting continues at an astronomical rate year on end, and wrestling holds its ratings or even grows: that’s massive.


----------



## Wolf Mark

bdon said:


> Because wrestling is dying. Boxing faced the same thing. NBA ratings are down too. Relative to everything else, wrestling in general is holding serve better than ratings across the board.
> 
> You can make of that what you will, but when cord cutting continues at an astronomical rate year on end, and wrestling holds its ratings or even grows: that’s massive.


You say wrestling is dying. I say there is interest there but those in charge of the industry are failling. When Dynamite and AEW came about, I was super interested cause I was a wrestling fan but TNA had failed and WWE was not an option for me. There was so many talent that had been badly used by the WWE that when I saw Moxley join AEW there was finally hope to see great talents like him being well used. I also was interested in Omega, the more sought after free agent in wrestling joining AEW. And that first year, it was pretty good even if there were flaws. But at the end of the day, after gazillion of mistakes and stupid characters and failing to hold my interest, I stopped watching. AEW was basically my last hope in wrestling. But I'm afraid they were are just as subpar as WWE, sadly. There are less stubborn but less competent. Punk showing up was another "last hope" in me watching wrestling again. But they fumbled the ball there again.


----------



## Not Lying

fabi1982 said:


> Funny thing Brandi had the second highest „demo“ rating, so looks like the viewers who TK is aiming for WANT to see Brandi?!


Everyone knows this isn't how it works. 
Pick an argument and stand on it


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> While you’re not wrong, Cancel Culture would eat them alive if they went that route. Look back at the beginning of Dynamite: there were weekly Twitter threads from non-wrestling people crying that the women weren’t being given a fair shake.


Let them complain, who cares? Lol.


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> Everyone knows this isn't how it works.
> Pick an argument and stand on it


Didnt you do the same?


----------



## TD Stinger

Late to the party but obviously a disappointing number for Dynamite considering the main event. From the quarterly breakdown they started off hot like they usually do with the lead in but by Quarter 2 they went down to the 950k range and pretty much stayed within 900k-950k for the rest of the show.

Obviously South Park having their Season Premiere put a little dent in the Demo but to that point, unless I'm mistaken that only ran from 8:00 to 8:30 EST. So it wasn't a factor by the time Punk vs. MJF started. And while that did match did rise in Viewers as it went on, it wasn't necessarily a huge bump either. Which again, was disappointing considering how long they had hyped that match.

They were probably expecting better than a .35 in the Demo. But that said, it was still #3 for the night. And I think they're still probably satisfied enough with that number. I mean I'm not a Numbers guy, but as a genuine question, what kind of number would truly be "Holy Shit, Sky if Falling"? Like, a .25?


----------



## Hitman1987

Genuine question. For the people who think that AEW hasn’t peaked and that they will still grow their audience.

What storyline do they have that you think is going to get new viewers to watch the show?

I ask as I personally feel they‘ve blown their best chance with the belt collector gimmick and DB’s and Punk’s debuts not increasing viewership.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hitman1987 said:


> Genuine question. For the people who think that AEW hasn’t peaked and that they will still grow their audience.
> 
> What storyline do they have that you think is going to get new viewers to watch the show?
> 
> I ask as I personally feel they‘ve blown their best chance with the belt collector gimmick and DB’s and Punk’s debuts not increasing viewership.


Roman Reigns vs Brock Lesnar

…but in AEW

and Sasha vs Charlotte…… but in AEW

but VERY critically……….. paste a WWE logo over the AEW logo, otherwise it’ll do a milly


----------



## Hitman1987

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Roman Reigns vs Brock Lesnar
> 
> …but in AEW
> 
> and Sasha vs Charlotte…… but in AEW
> 
> but VERY critically……….. paste a WWE logo over the AEW logo, otherwise it’ll do a milly


I don’t watch or like WWE so that wouldn’t work for me.

So what does AEW have to offer that’s going to bring in new viewers?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hitman1987 said:


> I don’t watch or like WWE so that wouldn’t work for me.
> 
> So what does AEW have to offer that’s going to bring in new viewers?


nothing - this is the tippy top

if you don’t like what is on offer between them or wwe - and NJPW is not your style

then i daresy your wrestling hobby has reached its end


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Let them complain, who cares? Lol.


Bro, you can’t do that in America and survive. Not these days. Haha


----------



## bdon

Hitman1987 said:


> I ask as I personally feel they‘ve blown their best chance with *the belt collector gimmick* and DB’s and Punk’s debuts not increasing viewership.


Seriously pisses me off. That is a once in a lifetime goddamn story, and Tony Khan just treated it like a second class story. Cody’s open challenge received more publicity from AEW.

If you’re going to green light Omega going elsewhere to defend your title, then you need to be paying for that story to be on EVERY news station, ESPN, CNN, etc. Do EVERYTHING to let non-viewers know that they are missing an EVENT, not a story.

Goddamn Tony for that one.


----------



## Hitman1987

LifeInCattleClass said:


> nothing - this is the tippy top
> 
> if you don’t like what is on offer between them or wwe - and NJPW is not your style
> 
> then i daresy your wrestling hobby has reached its end


Typical fanboy response.

An anti-wwe promotion, with a more than capable roster and an infinite budget ruins wrestling’s last big chance to become great again and you reply with sarcastic comments and saying go and watch something else.

People are already going to watch something else, that’s why the viewership is declining even after AEW is running unopposed and on a better channel.

All I’m asking is what do the people who like AEW think AEW can do to turn around and grow their audience?


----------



## Hitman1987

bdon said:


> Seriously pisses me off. That is a once in a lifetime goddamn story, and Tony Khan just treated it like a second class story. Cody’s open challenge received more publicity from AEW.
> 
> If you’re going to green light Omega going elsewhere to defend your title, then you need to be paying for that story to be on EVERY news station, ESPN, CNN, etc. Do EVERYTHING to let non-viewers know that they are missing an EVENT, not a story.
> 
> Goddamn Tony for that one.


They had an opportunity to unite the whole non-WWE universe using the most popular non-WWE wrestler and they fucked it up.

Thwy had lightning in a bottle and they blew it.


----------



## Joe Gill

Hitman1987 said:


> Genuine question. For the people who think that AEW hasn’t peaked and that they will still grow their audience.
> 
> What storyline do they have that you think is going to get new viewers to watch the show?
> 
> I ask as I personally feel they‘ve blown their best chance with the belt collector gimmick and DB’s and Punk’s debuts not increasing viewership.


[email protected] collector.... no casual fan will ever tune in to see a weird geek like omega hanging out with the young bucks. The only wrestler on the entire roster that has the "it" factor to bring in a new demo is Hook. If you market and book him properly you can get more younger female fans. AEW has already saturated the basement dweller wresting nerd market....


----------



## 3venflow

They're at over 5,150 for Dynamite in Atlantic City this coming week. Tickets have been moving nicely each day, probably as there's a Hangman world title defense.

Last week's Dynamite/Rampage in Chicago did 5,446.

Last week's Smackdown in Oklahoma did 4,912.

Last week's RAW in Cincinnati did 5,562.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hitman1987 said:


> Typical fanboy response.
> 
> An anti-wwe promotion, with a more than capable roster and an infinite budget ruins wrestling’s last big chance to become great again and you reply with sarcastic comments and saying go and watch something else.
> 
> People are already going to watch something else, that’s why the viewership is declining even after AEW is running unopposed and on a better channel.
> 
> All I’m asking is what do the people who like AEW think AEW can do to turn around and grow their audience?


lol - that wasn’t a fanboy response - it was an honest one

if you cannot find good wrestling you like somewhere in the top 3 companies with all those wrestling minds thinking up weekly shit, then there is nothing for you - what you are looking for cannot be provided

between them they cover all of wrestling styles and stories


----------



## La Parka

CM Punk and Bryan are completely different genres than most of the AEW roster.

The casuals that tuned in for CM Punks debut on a death slot are likely not into indy niche comedy like Brandon Cutler, Oil guy, Chris Jericho, Orange Cassidy, Kenny Omega, Young Bucks, Dork Order, Best Friends or weekly hardcore matches. The only way people were going to stick around was if AEW held back on the indy shit but they didn't do anything differently. 

AEW's foundation is build upon the above, the 800k people a week love it or tolerate it and most others just watch something else. Bringing in CM Punk and Bryan is not enough to have people sit through a fucking Wheeler Yuta match with TWO different comedy managers or a Nyla Rose match. In 2022 there's multiple ways to watch CM Punk vs MJF without having to sit through a bunch of shit. 

Personally, I think CM Punk and Bryan were too late to make AEW into a decent wrestling alternative to WWE. Most wrestling fans had either accepted it for what it was or dismissed it by that point. If AEW started off as a serious sports based genre I think they'd be in a much better place because most of the die hard AEW fans will tune into anything that isn't WWE and a sports based genre would be much more appealing to people who are looking for something different than your typical sports entertainment show that is completely oversaturated in the wrestling business.


----------



## Sad Panda

@La Parka I think there’s a lot of truth to your post.

I think AEW could potentially have something very cool with the Mox/Danielson angle, although I think it will eventually turn out to be Mox not accepting and just going on to feud with dragon.

But that type of faction where it’s two legit badasses that surround themselves with young lions would be super ideal. Running roughshot over the “comedy” acts while bringing legitimacy to the fed would certainly drum up some major attention and I do think AEW needs a shot in the arm, a storyline that transcends just this fan base.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Cult03 said:


> Breaking news, genetic freak (who is also hot) draws on a wrestling show. More at 7


True, you should look at the amazing ratings of NXT 2.0!


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> CM Punk and Bryan are completely different genres than most of the AEW roster.
> 
> The casuals that tuned in for CM Punks debut on a death slot are likely not into indy niche comedy like Brandon Cutler, Oil guy, Chris Jericho, Orange Cassidy, Kenny Omega, Young Bucks, Dork Order, Best Friends or weekly hardcore matches. The only way people were going to stick around was if AEW held back on the indy shit but they didn't do anything differently.
> 
> AEW's foundation is build upon the above, the 800k people a week love it or tolerate it and most others just watch something else. Bringing in CM Punk and Bryan is not enough to have people sit through a fucking Wheeler Yuta match with TWO different comedy managers or a Nyla Rose match. In 2022 there's multiple ways to watch CM Punk vs MJF without having to sit through a bunch of shit.
> 
> Personally, I think CM Punk and Bryan were too late to make AEW into a decent wrestling alternative to WWE. Most wrestling fans had either accepted it for what it was or dismissed it by that point. If AEW started off as a serious sports based genre I think they'd be in a much better place because most of the die hard AEW fans will tune into anything that isn't WWE and a sports based genre would be much more appealing to people who are looking for something different than your typical sports entertainment show that is completely oversaturated in the wrestling business.


Boxing and NBA must not be sports-based enough.


----------



## Cult03

ProjectGargano said:


> True, you should look at the amazing ratings of NXT 2.0!


The show that focuses on developing the stars of tomorrow? Why is this always the comparison? AEW beat NXT, WWE's 3rd brand. Cool.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Cult03 said:


> The show that focuses on developing the stars of tomorrow? Why is this always the comparison? AEW beat NXT, WWE's 3rd brand. Cool.


Well because of what you said. They have great athletes, Hot wrestlers, great looks and they have only 500k people watching.


----------



## Wolf Mark

bdon said:


> Seriously pisses me off. That is a once in a lifetime goddamn story, and Tony Khan just treated it like a second class story. Cody’s open challenge received more publicity from AEW.
> 
> If you’re going to green light Omega going elsewhere to defend your title, then you need to be paying for that story to be on EVERY news station, ESPN, CNN, etc. Do EVERYTHING to let non-viewers know that they are missing an EVENT, not a story.
> 
> Goddamn Tony for that one.


This could have been very big but there were issues like Tony refused to mention what was happening in the other promotions cause he "didn't want to give them free air time". They could have made it this global thing. I wanted it to culmulate at another "All In" where many promotions would have been part of it and Kenny could have ended the night with all the belts.


----------



## Wolf Mark

La Parka said:


> CM Punk and Bryan are completely different genres than most of the AEW roster.
> 
> The casuals that tuned in for CM Punks debut on a death slot are likely not into indy niche comedy like Brandon Cutler, Oil guy, Chris Jericho, Orange Cassidy, Kenny Omega, Young Bucks, Dork Order, Best Friends or weekly hardcore matches. The only way people were going to stick around was if AEW held back on the indy shit but they didn't do anything differently.
> 
> AEW's foundation is build upon the above, the 800k people a week love it or tolerate it and most others just watch something else. Bringing in CM Punk and Bryan is not enough to have people sit through a fucking Wheeler Yuta match with TWO different comedy managers or a Nyla Rose match. In 2022 there's multiple ways to watch CM Punk vs MJF without having to sit through a bunch of shit.
> 
> Personally, I think CM Punk and Bryan were too late to make AEW into a decent wrestling alternative to WWE. Most wrestling fans had either accepted it for what it was or dismissed it by that point. If AEW started off as a serious sports based genre I think they'd be in a much better place because most of the die hard AEW fans will tune into anything that isn't WWE and a sports based genre would be much more appealing to people who are looking for something different than your typical sports entertainment show that is completely oversaturated in the wrestling business.


A lot of casuals came back just to watch what Punk and Danielson would do. But AEW did nothing with them. Just matches and promos. So they did not keep these new potential fans. This may have been AEW's last chance to break through. They also had Christian during a period of time. They could have mapped out an epic storyline for about 6 months of interesting stuff happening with all these guys joining in. But instead we got Punk wrestling Darby for no reason other than "I want to give a chance to all those kids". That's gonna put butts in the seats.


----------



## bdon

Wolf Mark said:


> This could have been very big but there were issues like Tony refused to mention what was happening in the other promotions cause he "didn't want to give them free air time". They could have made it this global thing. I wanted it to culmulate at another "All In" where many promotions would have been part of it and Kenny could have ended the night with all the belts.


Yeah bro. That was fucking disrespectful and buried the entire story…


----------



## TD Stinger

The Belt Collector Storyline to me is something that could have been executed better but at the same time I don't look at it as something that would have been a draw per say.

It could have been executed better in the sense that we could have seen more crossover with Impact stars on AEW and AEW actually acknowledging Kenny's segments in other companies, mainly Impact. Instead the Storyline mainly played out elsewhere and you were only really aware of it on AEW when Kenny would make his entrance with multiple belts.

All that said, people were only going to care about Kenny and the Impact Title so much. I mean I think it's been proven that no matter what Impact does to get buzz, people are only going to get so interested in them. The AAA Mega Title? Lets be honest, no one cared. I couldn't even tell you Kenny beat for the belt.

To me I think the only way the story could have been worthwhile is #1, Kenny won the IWGP Title. Which between COVID and Politics, I don't think would have happened. Or #2, Kenny won a WWE Belt, which was never going to happen.


----------



## Wolf Mark

TD Stinger said:


> The Belt Collector Storyline to me is something that could have been executed better but at the same time I don't look at it as something that would have been a draw per say.
> 
> It could have been executed better in the sense that we could have seen more crossover with Impact stars on AEW and AEW actually acknowledging Kenny's segments in other companies, mainly Impact. Instead the Storyline mainly played out elsewhere and you were only really aware of it on AEW when Kenny would make his entrance with multiple belts.
> 
> All that said, people were only going to care about Kenny and the Impact Title so much. I mean I think it's been proven that no matter what Impact does to get buzz, people are only going to get so interested in them. The AAA Mega Title? Lets be honest, no one cared. I couldn't even tell you Kenny beat for the belt.
> 
> To me I think the only way the story could have been worthwhile is #1, Kenny won the IWGP Title. Which between COVID and Politics, I don't think would have happened. Or #2, Kenny won a WWE Belt, which was never going to happen.


They should have involved all the non-WWE promotions including NWA and ROH. It could have been something prettty special even bigger than when WCW would crossover with Japanese companies. With guys invading all over the place. It's funny how Tony use his whole wealth to get every talent possible yet would not want giving other promotions air time. lol If anything if the storyline would have worked, it would have been very beneificial for him financially. So him putting a stop to it all was bad business in my opinion. And it damaged Kenny.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Just saw the number for last weeks dynamite. Damn not a good number. Just goes to show WWE was always right about Punk. He was never a draw.


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage

540,000 viewers
0.20 in the 18-49

That's down from the past two weeks and above their second show of January. It still ranked pretty well on cable, finishing 7th.

Both Rampage and Smackdown saw drops up against the Olympics.


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## Not Lying

So a drop for Sammy vs Kassidy, and then a drop for Mercedes/Rosa.
I wouldn't read much into this, but Rosa/Martinez could have drawn better if they had more interactions to build the match besides vignettes shown.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Decent start, never really recovered from 2nd quarter on. Didn't really look like a must-watch show on paper and I haven't seen it myself, but from what I read it was a really good episode. Hopefully next week does better.


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> View attachment 116431


Women’s wrestling loses viewers! What a shocker. 

Credit to Starks/Lethal for increasing the numbers at a death time slot


----------



## Mister Sinister

While for most of us, the most interesting story (is there any other story?) on the show is MJF/Punk/Wardlow; the mainstream do not want MJF shoved in their face. Wardlow is the star in the making. MJF goes back down the card.
This is exactly what happened when Jericho did the labors of Jericho, and the final match was MJF and it bombed in the ratings when The Juice scored a strong rating against Jericho in his match. They built all this up to hype up MJF and put him over again, and he lost viewers again.


----------



## Not Lying

Randy Lahey said:


> Women’s wrestling loses viewers! What a shocker.
> 
> Credit to Starks/Lethal for increasing the numbers at a death time slot


lmao. Never miss. Love it how you disappear when women gain viewers and get the highest rated segments on the show.


----------



## Randy Lahey

The Definition of Technician said:


> lmao. Never miss. Love it how you disappear when women gain viewers and get the highest rated segments on the show.


99% of the time they don’t.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Joe Gill said:


> [email protected] collector.... no casual fan will ever tune in to see a weird geek like omega hanging out with the young bucks. The only wrestler on the entire roster that has the "it" factor to bring in a new demo is Hook. If you market and book him properly you can get more younger female fans. AEW has already saturated the basement dweller wresting nerd market....


Agree with the belt collector idea. The idea was only exciting if you're already a Kenny Omega fan but even for his fans they would no doubt have been disappointed when the Kenny belt collector run only really consisted of AEW World, AAA Title and Impact Title.

I remember people thinking he was going to take the IWGP Title.



ProjectGargano said:


> Well because of what you said. They have great athletes, Hot wrestlers, great looks and they have only 500k people watching.


Also no star power. Looking at their last TV show they don't have one person who has a degree of notoriety outside of NXT. If they took a top star from both RAW and Smackdown I guarantee you that they'd shoot right up.

Rampage included a host of established TV talents such as Adam Cole, Andrade, Jay Lethal, Matt Hardy, Ricky Starks, Sammy Guevara and Thunder Rose and only narrowly beat NXT...


----------



## ProjectGargano

Chip Chipperson said:


> Agree with the belt collector idea. The idea was only exciting if you're already a Kenny Omega fan but even for his fans they would no doubt have been disappointed when the Kenny belt collector run only really consisted of AEW World, AAA Title and Impact Title.
> 
> I remember people thinking he was going to take the IWGP Title.
> 
> 
> 
> Also no star power. Looking at their last TV show they don't have one person who has a degree of notoriety outside of NXT. If they took a top star from both RAW and Smackdown I guarantee you that they'd shoot right up.
> 
> Rampage included a host of established TV talents such as Adam Cole, Andrade, Jay Lethal, Matt Hardy, Ricky Starks, Sammy Guevara and Thunder Rose and only narrowly beat NXT...


They had Riddle, AJ Styles for some weeks and that didn't change...


----------



## Teemu™

Punk vs. MJF draws the lowest numbers yet on TBS, goes under one million. I've been saying for OVER A DECADE NOW that CM Punk is not a draw, and people refuse to listen to me. Money in the Bank 2011 was a disappointment, and SummerSlam 2011 was the lowest drawing SummerSlam since 1997. YIKES! CM Punk really failed in 2011. And now he failed again in 2022.

But the IWC will continue to treat him like a megastar, as if him joining AEW is the equivalent of Scott Hall jumping in 1996. Give me a fucking break. When will the IWC's false narrative end? Probably never. The IWC always twists the truth.


----------



## Teemu™

FrankieDs316 said:


> Just saw the number for last weeks dynamite. Damn not a good number. Just goes to show WWE was always right about Punk. He was never a draw.


Let's not forget: Punk contacted WWE first. They were not interested - because they know CM Punk doesn't draw, so he is not worth the money, or the headache. AEW was his second choice after he couldn't get in the WWE. Vince knows his shit, he knows no one will tune in to watch Punk. This is why Vince is the greatest wrestling promoter of all time.


----------



## Aedubya

This week's Raw has a terrible rating
Is there a 56 page bump in their rating thread equivalent?


----------



## Erik.

Aedubya said:


> This week's Raw has a terrible rating
> Is there a 56 page bump in their rating thread equivalent?


That'd require people showing interest in the product.


----------



## Prosper

Teemu™ said:


> Let's not forget: Punk contacted WWE first. They were not interested - because they know CM Punk doesn't draw, so he is not worth the money, or the headache. AEW was his second choice after he couldn't get in the WWE. Vince knows his shit, he knows no one will tune in to watch Punk. This is why Vince is the greatest wrestling promoter of all time.


Pull Vince’s balls out of your throat. Live cable ratings are not the only indicator of success.


----------



## Erik.

Prosper said:


> Pull Vince’s balls out of your throat. Live cable ratings are not the only indicator of success.


Let these people live their life as if it were the 90s again.

It's fun.

I wonder if they also pop up on Pokemon, South Park and Korn message boards.


----------



## Garty

Teemu™ said:


> When will the IWC's false narrative end? Probably never. The IWC always twists the truth.


What truth? The guy who sold out an arena without even being advertised? The guy who gave AEW their highest "B-Show" rating to date? The guy who crashed AEWshop.com the night of his debut? The guy who everyone thought would never come back to wrestling?



Teemu™ said:


> Let's not forget: Punk contacted WWE first. They were not interested - because they know CM Punk doesn't draw


Both Punk and Tony Khan have acknowledged that they've been talking on and off since the company was founded. He waited it out, took a look at the sustainability of the company, made sure it was the correct decision, made the deal and the rest is history. Besides, it's only been about 7 months since he debuted for AEW. Depending on how many years he's signed for (2-3), he's got another 1 1/2 or 2 1/2 years remaining, so it's a little early to write him off just yet don't you think?!


----------



## 3venflow

They've hit 5,500 paid for tonight's show. AEW doesn't usually do a huge number of late sales, but this one has been moving tickets quite well day by day. They've added some more seats on the hard cam side.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Teemu™ said:


> Let's not forget: Punk contacted WWE first. They were not interested - because they know CM Punk doesn't draw, so he is not worth the money, or the headache. AEW was his second choice after he couldn't get in the WWE. Vince knows his shit, he knows no one will tune in to watch Punk. This is why Vince is the greatest wrestling promoter of all time.


Lol did Punk really contacted WWE?


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491485087254605824


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Erik. said:


> Let these people live their life as if it were the 90s again.
> 
> It's fun.
> 
> I wonder if they also pop up on Pokemon, South Park and Korn message boards.


Rude



3venflow said:


> They've hit 5,500 paid for tonight's show. AEW doesn't usually do a huge number of late sales, but this one has been moving tickets quite well day by day. They've added some more seats on the hard cam side.


That's great.


----------



## Erik.

GNKenny said:


> Rude


Was I missing out Grunge fashion ?


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Erik. said:


> Was I missing out Grunge fashion ?


Ha.

As for Pokemon, I was always a Yu-Gi-Oh guy instead I'll have you know.


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491485087254605824


You have the source? Or is this just someone on twitter with his subjective opinion?


----------



## 3venflow

fabi1982 said:


> You have the source? Or is this just someone on twitter with his subjective opinion?







__





AEW PRESIDENT TONY KHAN DISCUSSES TONIGHT'S AEW SURPRISE, RATINGS, ADAM COLE, DANHAUSEN, OMEGA, MJF AND TONS MORE | PWInsider.com







www.pwinsider.com


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

….. can we discuss that nxt rating in here for the shits and giggles or nah?


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ….. can we discuss that nxt rating in here for the shits and giggles or nah?


Most on here are between 18 and 34 right?

Which means, barely fuck all any of us watch that shit.

0.7 man. Shit. Haha.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

AEW should try running the Reno Events Center in Nevada....I think. Don't think they've been to that side of the country yet. It's a cool looking building.

Well. I think any building that doesn't look like generic sports arena is cool. I miss the character different arenas had in wrestling, everything looks the same now. Nitro always went to cool looking buildings. Wish the Hara Arena and Jacksonville Coliseum was still around.

I guess it doesn't matter.


----------



## Prosper

GNKenny said:


> Ha.
> 
> As for Pokemon, I was always a Yu-Gi-Oh guy instead I'll have you know.


What you know about that Dark Paladin


----------



## Wolf Mark

Randy Lahey said:


> Women’s wrestling loses viewers! What a shocker.
> 
> Credit to Starks/Lethal for increasing the numbers at a death time slot


And it was Thunder Rosa and Britt to boot


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ….. can we discuss that nxt rating in here for the shits and giggles or nah?


Only if we are comparing it to the Nightmare Factory Student Showcases though. Because they're both developmental products. Let's compare Bron Breakker to Dean Alexander while we are at it. NXT's best prospect VS AEW's only prospect. Who you got?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Cult03 said:


> Only if we are comparing it to the Nightmare Factory Student Showcases though. Because they're both developmental products. Let's compare Bron Breakker to Dean Alexander while we are at it. NXT's best prospect VS AEW's only prospect. Who you got?
> View attachment 116517
> View attachment 116518


huh? What are you on about Teach?

the one is a private school owned by one evp with no shows and no official affiliation with aew / the other is a prime time tv show airing weekly on cable where ‘dubdube superstars‘ appear.

hell, wasn‘t Ziggles on this show?

besides, if you’re gonna compare Bron / compare him with Wardlow


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> huh? What are you on about Teach?
> 
> the one is a private school owned by one evp with no shows and no official affiliation with aew / the other is a prime time tv show airing weekly on cable where ‘dubdube superstars‘ appear.
> 
> hell, wasn‘t Ziggles on this show?
> 
> besides, if you’re gonna compare Bron / compare him with Wardlow


Must fight the urge to laugh that someone is legitimately comparing sweaty men's physiques in response to ratings.

Must. Fight. Urge.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Must fight the urge to laugh that someone is legitimately comparing sweaty men's physiques in response to ratings.
> 
> Must. Fight. Urge.


teach is freaky deaky


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> huh? What are you on about Teach?
> 
> the one is a private school owned by one evp with no shows and no official affiliation with aew / the other is a prime time tv show airing weekly on cable where ‘dubdube superstars‘ appear.
> 
> hell, wasn‘t Ziggles on this show?
> 
> besides, if you’re gonna compare Bron / compare him with Wardlow


I'm still not over the fact that Dolph Ziggler (who's been criminally misused for several years due to stop/start pushes) outpopped Bron Breakker (the NXT Champion), and felt like the biggest star in that segment despite being much smaller or less muscular.

Hell, even Tommaso Ciampa felt more like a bigger star with the really good crowd response that he received too.


----------



## CM Buck

@Erik. @LifeInCattleClass knock it off. There's no need to bring cults professional life into this. Debate without being jerks or else.

@Cult03 as for you, do not insult me again. I don't care how many fan boys are being annoying. You treat me with respect.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

ProjectGargano said:


> Well because of what you said. They have great athletes, Hot wrestlers, great looks and they have only 500k people watching.


They have zero name value. They are essentially completely new performers with no built in fanbase. Comparing it to a show with Sting, Danielson, Punk, Moxley, Jericho, The Elite, etc is ridiculous. 

You can have talent, great athletes, great looks or whatever else but it still takes time to build a fanbase. WWE is openly using NXT 2.0 to ready people for the main roster so it's possible that drawing huge ratings isn't the main goal of the show. Would they LIKE it to do better? Definitely, but WWE is more than aware that NXT has never been a ratings darling even when it featured all the talent people knew and loved.


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW PRESIDENT TONY KHAN DISCUSSES TONIGHT'S AEW SURPRISE, RATINGS, ADAM COLE, DANHAUSEN, OMEGA, MJF AND TONS MORE | PWInsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pwinsider.com


Ok so BS TK rambling about his greatness on cocaine. Thought there would be a TBS/TNT interview, but this is typical TK..


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 1,129,000
18-49: 0.41


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491877943446061058

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Holy shit what a number! I was thinking it would be low 1 million.

ACKNOWLEDGE THE COWBOY CHIEF!!!!!

(Please quarter ratings don’t make me regret posting this).


----------



## Sad Panda

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Holy shit what a number! I was thinking low 1 million.


Agreed, I was expecting a bump but that’s pretty considerable.

The show was quality so I’m glad the viewership was there. The folks that watched got a good dose of what AEW can provide.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Sad Panda said:


> Agreed, I was expecting a bump but that’s pretty considerable.
> 
> The show was quality so I’m glad the viewership was there. The folks that watched got a good dose of what AEW can provide.


Yeah it was a great and well structured show. I’m hoping the quarters reflect that and next week doesn’t drop much to reflect a successful episode in most fans eyes, so TK has more of a reason to follow that formula more often (doesn’t need to be every week though).


----------



## EmbassyForever

Good for them. The show was great


----------



## 3venflow

It ranked above NBA, Winter Olympics on USA and South Park.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Holy shit what a number! I was thinking it would be low 1 million.
> 
> ACKNOWLEDGE THE COWBOY CHEIF!!!!!
> 
> (Please quarter ratings don’t make me regret posting this).


*Me when that chart drops:







*


----------



## Joe Gill

TBS/Turner has to be thrilled with these numbers when you factor in what they pay for the show compared to how much they pay for the NBA. This was a great show Dynamite put on and delivered a great rating. Keep the momentum going..please do not revert back to the indy horseshit like dork order opening the show ever again.


----------



## RapShepard

Good number another prediction win for me


----------



## DammitChrist

They deserved that strong number since last night's episode was a great one (for their good standards).

Kudos to Adam Page, CM Punk, MJF, Jon Moxley, Jay White, Keith Lee, Lance Archer, FTR, and Wardlow for helping keep the viewers stay hooked throughout the show 

Edit:

I'm aware that 2 of those names weren't advertised (  ), but the hot/wide speculation for their possible debuts before the show and both of those men leaving a big impact in their own way last night may have assisted with the viewership too.


----------



## Brodus Clay

DammitChrist said:


> I'm still not over the fact that Dolph Ziggler (who's been criminally misused for several years due to stop/start pushes) outpopped Bron Breakker (the NXT Champion), and felt like the biggest star in that segment despite being much smaller or less muscular.
> 
> Hell, even Tommaso Ciampa felt more like a bigger star with the really good crowd response that he received too.


I think Bron has potential but yes atm hes like a generic guy with muscles, a bit boring.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Me when that chart drops:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Well if nothing else, you caught me spelling “chief” wrong lol.


----------



## DaSlacker

Good number but Tony is mostly having to rely on the old surprise debut or special theme to keep the show at 1.1 million viewers. If they could only find a way to pull in that 50+ demo. It would hugely inflate the number.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491864684483461120


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Canadians love cowboys.


----------



## DammitChrist

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491864684483461120


That is growth


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> Only if we are comparing it to the Nightmare Factory Student Showcases though. Because they're both developmental products. Let's compare Bron Breakker to Dean Alexander while we are at it. NXT's best prospect VS AEW's only prospect. Who you got?
> View attachment 116517
> View attachment 116518


You have cried about this bullshit for 2 fucking years. It isn’t developmental when it is on the fucking air. Otherwise we can call Rampage developmental, which also waxes NXT ass.

You don’t like the fucking L’s, then stop putting it on television and stop sending the AJ’s, the Finn’s, and the Ziggler’s down to try and bump the goddamn rating. Put them in a fucking gym and let them just work on their craft.

Or should we start mocking Vince McMahon for being such a shit business man that he is wasting TWO FUCKING HOURS on guys that aren’t cut out for television like we did TK in the summer of 2020 for wasting $7k per minute on Orange Cassidy?

Yeah. You don’t want to have that talk, do ya!?


----------



## Not Lying

Fantastic number.
I think Punk/mystery partner intrigue must have helped too.


----------



## omaroo

Great number. Factors of mystery debut and punks partner helped I imagine.

Hope hangman drew well as well.

But consistency is problem with AEW and I would think next week it will drop. But hoping not by too much and stays above a million.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## El Hammerstone

Good number, let's not squander the momentum this time please.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Great show got a good number. Just for giggles:

Dynamite - 0.41
Nxt 2.0 - 0.07

😂


----------



## CovidFan

Fantastic number. Now let's keep it up with two 1.1m weeks in a row this time!


----------



## Erik.

Randy Lahey said:


> Great show got a good number. Just for giggles:
> 
> Dynamite - 0.41
> Nxt 2.0 - 0.07
> 
> 😂


Lol


----------



## 3venflow

Crazy how NXT as recently as April 2021 was respectable opposition to Dynamite (0.28 to 0.22 the last time they faced off).


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Someone screenshot the damn chart when he shows it. I'm at work:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491899964133462016*


----------



## 3venflow

@Randy Lahey is gonna have a field day on that Q7 drop. 😂


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Everything over a million is good. Main Event did gain back a decent chunk of viewers... but also one of the lowest quarters of the night so... I guess it's a wash. RIP Cowboy Chief 

Still, they started big, then twice hit about 1.18 million. First for the Inner Circle segment, and then for the Punk match with the mystery partner tease. Q7 huge drop, but yeah iirc nothing of note happened. Cargill's title defense finish, that promo, and then the Deeb squash match was nothing of note. 

Middle 4 quarters staying above 1.1 million is really good.


----------



## DammitChrist

In all fairness, even the 'weaker' quarters still managed to remain over 1 million viewers; so that's still a good sign.

Hopefully, more of those folks continue to stay for the long-term.

Edit:

The TV audience seemed to be REALLY interested in CM Punk this week according to both quarterly ratings (and technically FTR too since they were part of both segments as well  )


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> View attachment 116572
> 
> 
> @Randy Lahey is gonna have a field day on that Q7 drop. 😂


I mean it has to be obvious and I hate to be redundant, but TK just needs to keep all the women on Rampage or Dark/Elevation. Their ratings would go up bc women always lose viewers. 

And given how stacked last nights show was, there’s not even room for women on it. There’s no reason at all the Bucks/Vice, Hook, or BD interview should be on Rampage at the expense of any inferior women’s segment. 

And last night AEW didn’t even have Omega, Black, Miro, or Cody on the show.

There’s simply no room for the women. Other than Brit Baker on the mic occasionally, there shouldn’t be any other women segments given how loaded the roster is.

What’s the argument otherwise? I’d love to hear it.

Last week proved how much Brandi sucked too bc look at this week. Very little drop off in the first hour


----------



## Erik.

This Week - 1,129,000 - (.41) 

Last Week - 954,000 - (.35)

Last Year - 741,000 - (.29)


----------



## Randy Lahey

Erik. said:


> This Week - 1,129,000 - (.41)
> 
> Last Week - 954,000 - (.35)
> 
> Last Year - 741,000 - (.29)


“But Punk isn’t a needle mover” 😂

The year over year increase is insane growth with tv is in decline.

That’s why anyone thinking Dynamite won’t eventually pass Raw is delusional. The long term trends are steady


----------



## DammitChrist

bdon said:


> You have cried about this bullshit for 2 fucking years. It isn’t developmental when it is on the fucking air. Otherwise we can call Rampage developmental, which also waxes NXT ass.
> 
> You don’t like the fucking L’s, then stop putting it on television and stop sending the AJ’s, the Finn’s, and the Ziggler’s down to try and bump the goddamn rating. Put them in a fucking gym and let them just work on their craft.
> 
> Or should we start mocking Vince McMahon for being such a shit business man that he is wasting TWO FUCKING HOURS on guys that aren’t cut out for television like we did TK in the summer of 2020 for wasting $7k per minute on Orange Cassidy?
> 
> Yeah. You don’t want to have that talk, do ya!?





Randy Lahey said:


> Great show got a good number. Just for giggles:
> 
> Dynamite - 0.41
> Nxt 2.0 - 0.07
> 
> 😂





Erik. said:


> Lol





3venflow said:


> Crazy how NXT as recently as April 2021 was respectable opposition to Dynamite (0.28 to 0.22 the last time they faced off).


Anyway, yea, this has been a great week for wrestling.

Smackdown received a lackluster number for last Friday, and is also down compared to last year where they were still in the Thunder Dome era with no crowds; which they deserve the loss in viewership since it's undoubtedly the worst wrestling show on TV between both companies. Plus, the current Universal Champion being in the lower hour (with about 20 minutes of TV time too) is always a funny bonus.

Even though their number was weak, Raw did better than some of us expected, and didn't fall too bad since they stayed well above 1 million viewers.

NXT 2.0 got a hilariously awful number, and just further proved that the revamp is a huge failure since Indy NXT got a much better number on both weeks they went to SyFy last July. 

Finally, Dynamite receives a strong rating above 1 million viewers after delivering a great episode last night. 

On a side note, NJPW is back to be televised once again (after doing no live shows for nearly 3 weeks), and NXT UK continues to be an underrated show


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Everything over a million is good. Main Event did gain back a decent chunk of viewers... but also one of the lowest quarters of the night so... I guess it's a wash. RIP Cowboy Chief
> 
> Still, they started big, then twice hit about 1.18 million. First for the Inner Circle segment, and then for the Punk match with the mystery partner tease. Q7 huge drop, but yeah iirc nothing of note happened. Cargill's title defense finish, that promo, and then the Deeb squash match was nothing of note.
> 
> Middle 4 quarters staying above 1.1 million is really good.


*Well, we both lost this week, so I won't go hard on you. I hope this shows you no one gives a fuck about Serena Deeb though. Her ceiling is being in short programs with the top girls to give them good matches. She should never be champion.*


----------



## La Parka

Good rating

If they got rid of the “must have a woman on the show” mindset and replaced that with Starks and Lethal from rampage, the number would’ve been even better.


----------



## One Shed

Great number, and again the ratings is in many cases built off the hype from the week before. Last week ended with a classic. I expect next week to be good too based on last night's episode.


----------



## elo

The thing is, Tony often books the women in the quarter with a hard ad break which just makes it look even worse for them. The 2nd quarter also looks bad for Wardlow until you see ~7 mins of it were ads which is exactly when people will flick over to check live scores from NBA, Winter Olympics etc and crush the number for the quarter. No matter how irritating PiP is, it's very effective at smoothing out the number when it's a match with some purpose behind it. Thurston also put the quarters for RAW up during his livestream and that opening hour without hard ad breaks grew the entire hour, the "commercial free" gimmick worked.


----------



## Garty

So... the boo-birds are pretty quiet this week, huh?!


----------



## omaroo

Women barring Britt, rosa, deeb and to a certain extend Cargill suck. The women's division sucks.

Its actually gotten worse over recent months. With rubbish talent taking air time and poorly booked division.

Really they have to have a women's match every weeks otherwise cancer culture will be at TKs throat.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Breatheeeeeee with the Switchblade


----------



## Mister Sinister

Four thoughts:
-They put on a real main event last week that got people talking and that caught fans' interest.
-This episode had more story and variety, and it had two debuts.
-The show opened with story and promos instead of a cold open. It delivered continuity from last week.
-They had two stars working together in one angle with the Punk/Mox tag match, and they developed the booking with a mystery partner during the episode. Story unfolded on screen within an episode. A subplot by golly. That's all it takes to make people watch. It felt like a different writer last night.


----------



## Joe Gill

La Parka said:


> Good rating
> 
> If they got rid of the “must have a woman on the show” mindset and replaced that with Starks and Lethal from rampage, the number would’ve been even better.


90% of womens wrestling is straight up trash. No one in the arena or watching on tv gives 2 shits about serena deebs 5 minute challenge. Leave that garbage for Dark or even Rampage. Dynamite should never have any filler garbage when you have a roster as deep as AEW has right now


----------



## La Parka

Garty said:


> So... the boo-birds are pretty quiet this week, huh?!


The same people usually comment every week regardless of the rating. Not sure who’s “quiet”? Anyone specific?


----------



## Mister Sinister

Women's wrestling can be strong draws. They need more tv-ready women like Tessa Blanchard and Jordyne Grace. They need to be planning for Charlotte vs Tessa down the road. That's where this division needs to go.

I don't understand why they aren't using Kiera Hogan on tv. She is one of their best. Why are they using indie women that have never been in front of a camera?


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Well, we both lost this week, so I won't go hard on you. I hope this shows you no one gives a fuck about Serena Deeb though. Her ceiling is being in short programs with the top girls to give them good matches. She should never be champion.*


lol. Deeb may not become this huge rating draw but ain't no way your basing this off this Q7. Jade/AQA was 4min of that quarter, Deeb/Jobber was max with entrance and all a 3min segment. There's 12 other minutes in that quarter, including a Bucks promo.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> You have cried about this bullshit for 2 fucking years. It isn’t developmental when it is on the fucking air. Otherwise we can call Rampage developmental, which also waxes NXT ass.
> 
> You don’t like the fucking L’s, then stop putting it on television and stop sending the AJ’s, the Finn’s, and the Ziggler’s down to try and bump the goddamn rating. Put them in a fucking gym and let them just work on their craft.
> 
> Or should we start mocking Vince McMahon for being such a shit business man that he is wasting TWO FUCKING HOURS on guys that aren’t cut out for television like we did TK in the summer of 2020 for wasting $7k per minute on Orange Cassidy?
> 
> Yeah. You don’t want to have that talk, do ya!?


Rampage was trying to be a big show but couldn’t get a good spot. It had CM Punk on it. It’s not used to develop. Dark is though, sort of. They’re used to give people a chance to get people used to working television whilst training. No AEW show does training, but their closest developmental school is the Nightmare Factory. NXT is a developmental show, that’s a fact. And yeah have at it with Vince, I don’t care about him at all. I just wanted NXT to be compared to something fairly. I don’t care about ratings, never have. I like what I like. But there’s no disputing this show is a developmental show when blokes without training are on tv every week learning the trade. This current iteration of NXT is a place holder for the already existing tv deal. I doubt they’ll stay on this channel either. This version of NXT is developmental.



Garty said:


> So... the boo-birds are pretty quiet this week, huh?!


Because most of us enjoyed the show? It’s absolutely insane that you keep saying this. When they have a good show the people who are usually negative are happy with it. You just don’t see the praise because you’re looking for the negativity to get upset about it.


----------



## Teemu™

lol what? NXT IS developmental. It is a show that develops talent for the main roster. *MAIN ROSTER. *The term "main roster" alone insinuates that non-main roster rosters are less than the main roster. Of course NXT is developmental lmao.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> lol. Deeb may not become this huge rating draw but ain't no way your basing this off this Q7. Jade/AQA was 4min of that quarter, Deeb/Jobber was max with entrance and all a 3min segment. There's 12 other minutes in that quarter, including a Bucks promo.


*You know I would love to blame the Young Bucks for tanking ratings, but that quarter was primarily focused on the women, who were advertised. I have no problem taking my L's with my W's. AQA is unknown to mainstream wrestling fans and a bad choice to put on a blockbuster show like this. A debuting Athena should be Jade's next major TBS title defense.*


----------



## bdon

You don’t get to cry about ratings beatdowns for 2 years and blame developmental when it is a show being put on TV. Guess what? If you’re on television, ratings are the goal. If you aren’t delivering, then you’re failing.

So quit fucking crying about it being developmental. It’s on television. It’s expected to deliver. We figured it up once before to mock Orange Cassidy being on television, and it is $7k per minute of television. NXT is costing the USA Network a massive amount of money, and they’ve been getting their shit packed in for 2 years, despite AJ FUCKING STYLES, FINN BALOR, Adolph Ziggler, Charlotte Flair, and many others going down to try and boost that rating.

If we can shit talk AEW with GUYS WHO HAVE NOT BEEN ON AMERICAN TELEVISION, then we can shit talk NXT’s garbage ass bullshit ratings.


----------



## Teemu™

bdon said:


> You don’t get to cry about ratings beatdowns for 2 years and blame developmental when it is a show being put on TV. Guess what? If you’re on television, ratings are the goal. If you aren’t delivering, then you’re failing.
> 
> So quit fucking crying about it being developmental. It’s on television. It’s expected to deliver. We figured it up once before to mock Orange Cassidy being on television, and it is $7k per minute of television. NXT is costing the USA Network a massive amount of money, and they’ve been getting their shit packed in for 2 years, despite AJ FUCKING STYLES, FINN BALOR, Adolph Ziggler, Charlotte Flair, and many others going down to try and boost that rating.
> 
> If we can shit talk AEW with GUYS WHO HAVE NOT BEEN ON AMERICAN TELEVISION, then we can shit talk NXT’s garbage ass bullshit ratings.


I think the point a lot of people are making is that it's not like Dynamite beat RAW.


----------



## bdon

Teemu™ said:


> I think the point a lot of people are making is that it's not like Dynamite beat RAW.


Yet the same crowd comes in crying about AEW not beating Raw, despite having talent like the Bucks, Omega, MJF, Darby, and Hangman Page in top positions within the company, guys who had never been on television.

Sorry that TK uses his unknowns better when opposite stars than Vince and Hunter do and did.

You put the show on live television at $7k per minute, then the excuses don’t fly. Simple as that. I question AEW when they get a shitty rating as well. I don’t go crying that Omega and The Bucks and MJF and the rest are unknowns and haven’t been on television. The ratings are pretty simple: do numbers and stay on TV or fail to do numbers and lose your TV deal.

If anyone fucking thinks NXT isn’t trying to do big ratings, then I have some swamp land in Jersey to sell ya.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> You don’t get to cry about ratings beatdowns for 2 years and blame developmental when it is a show being put on TV. Guess what? If you’re on television, ratings are the goal. If you aren’t delivering, then you’re failing.
> 
> So quit fucking crying about it being developmental. It’s on television. It’s expected to deliver. We figured it up once before to mock Orange Cassidy being on television, and it is $7k per minute of television. NXT is costing the USA Network a massive amount of money, and they’ve been getting their shit packed in for 2 years, despite AJ FUCKING STYLES, FINN BALOR, Adolph Ziggler, Charlotte Flair, and many others going down to try and boost that rating.
> 
> If we can shit talk AEW with GUYS WHO HAVE NOT BEEN ON AMERICAN TELEVISION, then we can shit talk NXT’s garbage ass bullshit ratings.


I haven’t cried about ratings beatdowns? I’ve literally said from the get go that ratings don’t matter. I don’t enjoy shows just because other people watch them. It’s on tv yeah, so? It’s still a developmental company and congratulations to AEW for beating them weekly in an outdated measurement. That isn’t impressive. NXT gets far more viewers worldwide because they’re shown in far more countries too. But nobody wants to have that conversation either.

Shit talk the ratings all you want, that’s never anything I’ve disputed. Just be fair when comparing what NXT is now to any other television show.

Also @bdon theres no use arguing with you because you just make things up and run with it. AEW should always have been beating NXT. It was embarrassing that it was even close at any point. Anything you say about me whinging about losses is dishonest or just completely fabricated. I don’t care about ratings, it’s that simple.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Jesus I didn't realise this was 2020 and the Wednesday Night Wars (sorry, Wednesday Night Pillow Fight), why are we comparing a show that's the A Show in AEW to a show that's gone back to being developmental in WWE.


----------



## Geeee

LifeInCattleClass said:


> huh? What are you on about Teach?
> 
> the one is a private school owned by one evp with no shows and no official affiliation with aew / the other is a prime time tv show airing weekly on cable where ‘dubdube superstars‘ appear.
> 
> hell, wasn‘t Ziggles on this show?
> 
> besides, if you’re gonna compare Bron / compare him with Wardlow


I'd say the better comparison is HOOK, since they have about the same level of experience and they are both pretty sick prospects IMO


----------



## bdon

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Jesus I didn't realise this was 2020 and the Wednesday Night Wars (sorry, Wednesday Night Pillow Fight), why are we comparing a show that's the A Show in AEW to a show that's gone back to being developmental in WWE.


I’m not sure. I clicked to jump to the last page and seen @Cult03 back to crying about developmental brand. Too lazy to go back looking at what started it, but it’s on TV. So atings matter to them. You don’t want ratings to matter then get the fuck off tv and develop away from the camera the way developmental is supposed to be handled.

$7k per minute, but let’s pretend they don’t care about the almighty US dollar and ratings.

Tony Khan has so much money, too. He don’t care about money either, eh? Fuck it. Why is Elon Musk buying Bitcoin, he don’t care about money!

If it isn’t about ratings, then it wouldn’t be on-air at $7k per minute. Simple as that. Nor would MAIN ROSTER guys be showing up and trying to sell for some guys who are only hoping to “learn”, eh?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> @Erik. @LifeInCattleClass knock it off. There's no need to bring cults professional life into this. Debate without being jerks or else.
> 
> @Cult03 as for you, do not insult me again. I don't care how many fan boys are being annoying. You treat me with respect.


cult has brought up his own profession multiple times outside of rants

especially as a ‘gotcha’ moment like ‘as an english teacher i….’

if he brings it up, it should be fair game?



3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 1,129,000
> 18-49: 0.41


And people wonder WHY TK promotes stuff heavily 🤷‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️



Teemu™ said:


> I think the point a lot of people are making is that it's not like Dynamite beat RAW.


Well, they beat Raw too this week - so there’s that


----------



## midgetlover69

Well would you look at that. When you put on a well structured show and feature your best talent people will show up to watch. Man who wouldve thought?


----------



## stevem20

A viewer is a viewer no matter what age they are.

If you have to mention 'key demo' to try and claim a ratings victory, the truth is you probably got less viewers than the others show.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

stevem20 said:


> A viewer is a viewer no matter what age they are.
> 
> If you have to mention 'key demo' to try and claim a ratings victory, the truth is you probably got less viewers than the others show.


if this is true - both AEW and WWE are closer to the top 30 than the top 5 shows

either / or


----------



## Aedubya

Aedubya said:


> Anything below 0.75 is bad, Anything above 0.75 is just meh! Anything above 0.8 is ok, Anything above 0.85 is good, anything above 0.9 is v good , anything above 0.95 is brilliant , anything above 1.0 is outstanding


Outstanding


----------



## ProjectGargano

Cult03 said:


> I haven’t cried about ratings beatdowns? I’ve literally said from the get go that ratings don’t matter. I don’t enjoy shows just because other people watch them. It’s on tv yeah, so? It’s still a developmental company and congratulations to AEW for beating them weekly in an outdated measurement. That isn’t impressive. NXT gets far more viewers worldwide because they’re shown in far more countries too. But nobody wants to have that conversation either.
> 
> Shit talk the ratings all you want, that’s never anything I’ve disputed. Just be fair when comparing what NXT is now to any other television show.
> 
> Also @bdon theres no use arguing with you because you just make things up and run with it. AEW should always have been beating NXT. It was embarrassing that it was even close at any point. Anything you say about me whinging about losses is dishonest or just completely fabricated. I don’t care about ratings, it’s that simple.


You are being a bit pathetic when you say that best AEW homegrown talent is Dean Alexander. Dean Alexander is not even in AEW, is a guy who jobbed some times and trained at Nightmare Factory, the school of QT Marshall and not from AEW. 

But even from Nightmare Factory, you have better talent than Dean Alexander like Lee Johnson for example. It was just a stupid example.


----------



## Teemu™

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Well, they beat Raw too this week - so there’s that


No, they didn't.


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> if this is true - both AEW and WWE are closer to the top 30 than the top 5 shows
> 
> either / or


Pretty much this.

All Raw fans seem to have is that regardless of viewership declining, they are still a top 5 show on cable.

But they're only a top 5 show because of their demographic.

So when AEW fans say they beat Raw in the demo, it's not really something they can dismiss because it's the only thing they stand on anyway.

Unless of course they're willing to admit that as well as declining ratings, Raw is not a top 5 or probably even a top 10 show on cable.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Teemu™ said:


> No, they didn't.


if you did a ratings chart of the whole week - AEW will appear above RAW

those are just facts

right @RapShepard ?


----------



## Teemu™

LifeInCattleClass said:


> if you did a ratings chart of the whole week - AEW will appear above RAW
> 
> those are just facts
> 
> right @RapShepard ?


RAW has more overall viewers than AEW Dynamite. They're not even head to head, however, so it's not like they're even competing for the same viewers on the same night.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Teemu™ said:


> RAW has more overall viewers than AEW Dynamite. They're not even head to head, however, so it's not like they're even competing for the same viewers on the same night.


so… why did you then say




Teemu™ said:


> I think the point a lot of people are making is that it's not like Dynamite beat RAW.


if they aren’t competing?


----------



## Teemu™

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so… why did you then say
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if they aren’t competing?


Head to head. I was just slotting RAW in NXT's place. When AEW beats RAW in overall viewers, going head to head, I will be impressed. Then they can say they beat their A show.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Teemu™ said:


> Head to head. I was just slotting RAW in NXT's place. When AEW beats RAW in overall viewers, going head to head, I will be impressed. Then they can say they beat their A show.


so, you’ll be impressed only when a thing that is never likely to happen will happen?

cause they’ll never go head to head

so… i guess we won’t hold our breath


----------



## Teemu™

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so, you’ll be impressed only when a thing that is never likely to happen will happen?
> 
> cause they’ll never go head to head
> 
> so… i guess we won’t hold our breath


I'm glad you admit AEW can never beat WWE.


----------



## DammitChrist

Teemu™ said:


> I'm glad you admit AEW can never beat WWE.


They already did back in October.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DammitChrist said:


> They already did back in October.


and this week


----------



## Teemu™

DammitChrist said:


> They already did back in October.





LifeInCattleClass said:


> and this week


AEW has not beaten RAW or SmackDown head to head.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Teemu™ said:


> AEW has not beaten RAW or SmackDown head to head.


they’ve beaten RAW in the current week

nobody said anything about head to head except you


----------



## Teemu™

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they’ve beaten RAW in the current week
> 
> nobody said anything about head to head except you


Yes, I said it in the context of AEW beating NXT - head to head. And I said: "It's not like they beat RAW" - as in, in that same scenario, head to head. As in, instead of RAW, head to head, they beat NXT, which is less impressive than beating RAW. Head to head.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Teemu™ said:


> Yes, I said it in the context of AEW beating NXT - head to head. And I said: "It's not like they beat RAW" - as in, in that same scenario, head to head. As in, instead of RAW, head to head, they beat NXT, which is less impressive than beating RAW. Head to head.


fucking hell Teemu


----------



## the_hound

aew beats raw (different station) everybody celebrates
smackdown murders rampage every friday (doesn't count as the dub is in a death slot at 10pm)
Olympics pulled in over 11 million but again doesn't count because the demo


----------



## Teemu™

LifeInCattleClass said:


> fucking hell Teemu


I like you, dude. You're a good dude.


----------



## Jaxon

anyone got thoughts on why last weeks show with the build to Punk and MJF drew lower than this week? i get Khan was promoting the big surprise but cant have just been that?


----------



## Teemu™

Jaxon said:


> anyone got thoughts on why last weeks show with the build to Punk and MJF drew lower than this week? i get Khan was promoting the big surprise but cant have just been that?


I know why. Punk failed to draw in 2011 and 2012 when the spotlight was on him. The pipebomb angle consistently lost viewers. SummerSlam 2012 was the worst-drawing SummerSlam since 1997, and it was at the height of the Summer of Punk angle. It's been consistently proven that CM Punk is not a draw, so this was to expected.


----------



## Jaxon

fair, but everyone tuned in for his return?


----------



## Teemu™

2011 Ratings


Date WWE Raw Superstars Impact Smackdown Jan. 3-7 3.08 0.58 1.16 1.95 Jan. 10-14 3.07 0.58 1.25 1.92 Jan. 17-21 3.28 0.49 1.15 2.12 Jan. 24-28 3.29 0.49 1.28 2.0 1/31 – 2/4 3.48 0.73 1.31 1.9…




www.gerweck.net





You can see here that Punk failed to do anything when he had the biggest angle of his career.


----------



## Teemu™

I think there was interest and buzz for his return, people are always excited to see a return. And he was a guy who we thought would never be in wrestling again. So people tuned in. Then they saw that he still looks a short-order cook from a Tennessee Waffle House, and immediately tuned out. Just my theory.


----------



## Teemu™

My other theory is that the Darby Allin promo hyped up the return of the Best in the World, so people logically assumed it was Shane McMahon, and tuned in all excited, then were inevitably disappointed when they got CM Punk instead. Again, just theories.


----------



## omaroo

Teemu™ said:


> My other theory is that the Darby Allin promo hyped up the return of the Best in the World, so people logically assumed it was Shane McMahon, and tuned in all excited, then were inevitably disappointed when they got CM Punk instead. Again, just theories.


Now you are blatantly trolling.


----------



## Teemu™

omaroo said:


> Now you are blatantly trolling.


It's a joke to lighten up the mood, and to make myself the butt of the joke, as if I'm someone who comes up with above theories, which are of course crazy. The way I post is, there's a hint of truth, but I do it over the top on purpose, and then turn it around on myself because I can laugh at myself. Don't take me super seriously.


----------



## bdon

Teemu™ said:


> Head to head. I was just slotting RAW in NXT's place. When AEW beats RAW in overall viewers, going head to head, I will be impressed. Then they can say they beat their A show.


Then tell WWE to redact their 2 decade stance that they are #1 in cable viewers. They routinely lose overall viewers to other shows, yet they claim victory based on the demo.

AEW is just playing along the rules set forth by WWE. 🤷🏼‍♂️


----------



## Teemu™

bdon said:


> Then tell WWE to redact their 2 decade stance that they are #1 in cable viewers. They routinely lose overall viewers to other shows, yet they claim victory based on the demo.
> 
> AEW is just playing along the rules set forth by WWE. 🤷🏼‍♂️


Oh yea, the WWE works marks just like AEW. That's just how it goes lol. It's a carny business.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> if you did a ratings chart of the whole week - AEW will appear above RAW
> 
> those are just facts
> 
> right @RapShepard ?


Facts I still put WWE over AEW and I enjoy NXT currently, but no excuses. If people want to watch your show they will watch. Everything else is just an excuse. Dynamite is facing Winter Olympic competition just like Raw, it's not Dynamite's problem that less people tuned into Raw this week. 

NXT as much as I enjoy it isn't putting on a product folk find must see, despite having the WWE machine backing. If WWE can only convince a 1/3 of Raws fan base to watch NXT, that's on them. While NXT is more clear cut developmental now, when it first got on TV it was more a super Indy with some developmental prospects. They're back to firmly developmental now because they got an ego bruise because Dynamite beat them. You can argue Dynamite had bigger stars, but NXT had a more established brand be it NXT or WWE, so that L is just an L.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Facts I still put WWE over AEW and I enjoy NXT currently, but no excuses. If people want to watch your show they will watch. Everything else is just an excuse. Dynamite is facing Winter Olympic competition just like Raw, it's not Dynamite's problem that less people tuned into Raw this week.
> 
> NXT as much as I enjoy it isn't putting on a product folk find must see, despite having the WWE machine backing. If WWE can only convince a 1/3 of Raws fan base to watch NXT, that's on them. While NXT is more clear cut developmental now, when it first got on TV it was more a super Indy with some developmental prospects. They're back to firmly developmental now because they got an ego bruise because Dynamite beat them. You can argue Dynamite had bigger stars, but NXT had a more established brand be it NXT or WWE, so that L is just an L.


Bingo. And if some want to say NXT is a better show, then they are more than welcome to believe that. The masses don’t often get this stuff right, whether it WCW vs WWE, Fast and Furious franchise, The Wayans Bros never even getting a final episode, or a host of other things. By and large, most people I know that still watch WWE watch it begrudgingly. My nephew is 10 fucking years old, has watched and enjoyed AEW both live events and shows, always amazed at how fun and exciting the show is, yet he always forgets what day and time it comes on but knows the day, time, and channel that Raw comes on like the back of his hand. His dad is the same way, always complaining, yet never turning the channel.

And that is also true for the past: how many people were like me in the early 00s, never turned the channel to Raw, and simply stopped watched wrestling with the death of WCW? I don’t expect WWE to die, but that’s the level of event that it would take for some to stop watching. I knew WCW was shitty at the end, trying to sleaze their way back to the top like WWE had with Sable and puppies, but I refused to stop watching.

NXT may be the best show out there, but if it’s on television, it is expected to compete. Rampage is on at 10pm and still expected to compete. Can’t compete, then get the fuck off the air. Simple as that.


----------



## Prosper

DOPPPPEEEEE rating. MJF/Punk doing under a mil was a little bit of an anomaly I thought, especially considering the build, so I am glad to see such a strong bounce back this week.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Rampage: 473k while doing their lowest 18-49 of all-time (I think it was 197k)


----------



## cai1981

Look for a nosedive in ratings for Dynamite this Wednesday! Tony Khan got a bump with promising a surprise that could "change everything" and someone coming through that Forbidden Door and "slamming it shut". He gotba 200k bump and underwhelmed again woth Keith Lee and yet someone else the majority of the American audience did not know!

This is getting old with Tony! I am sure the bump came with people FOOLISHLY thinking Shane McMahon or Triple H were going there
😆😆!!! 


920k for Dynamite this coming Wednesday!


----------



## ElTerrible

cai1981 said:


> Look for a nosedive in ratings for Dynamite this Wednesday! Tony Khan got a bump with promising a surprise that could "change everything" and someone coming through that Forbidden Door and "slamming it shut". He gotba 200k bump and underwhelmed again woth Keith Lee and yet someone else the majority of the American audience did not know!
> 
> This is getting old with Tony! I am sure the bump came with people FOOLISHLY thinking Shane McMahon or Triple H were going there
> 😆😆!!!
> 
> 
> 920k for Dynamite this coming Wednesday!


Just be happy that he does not promise a boring punch and kick rematch spamfest or they might draw 1.5M.


----------



## Erik.

cai1981 said:


> Look for a nosedive in ratings for Dynamite this Wednesday! Tony Khan got a bump with promising a surprise that could "change everything" and someone coming through that Forbidden Door and "slamming it shut". He gotba 200k bump and underwhelmed again woth Keith Lee and yet someone else the majority of the American audience did not know!
> 
> This is getting old with Tony! I am sure the bump came with people FOOLISHLY thinking Shane McMahon or Triple H were going there
> 😆😆!!!
> 
> 
> 920k for Dynamite this coming Wednesday!


The show stayed over a million after the debuts though...

So wheres your logic?


----------



## ProjectGargano

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Rampage: 473k while doing their lowest 18-49 of all-time (I think it was 197k)


Aren't that the fast nationals? The real number is always 30-50k higher, which brings them to +500k...still bad but way better than NXT 2.0.


----------



## Teemu™

AEW's YouTube Reaches 1 Billion Views, Joey Janela Wants Credit - Wrestling Inc.

Tony Khan sinks to a new low. Setting up bots to make it seem like AEW's YouTube has 1 billion views lol. I'd estimate the legitimate number somewhere around 2,000 maybe.


----------



## cai1981

Erik. said:


> The show stayed over a million after the debuts though...
> 
> So wheres your logic?


People were STILL waiting for that "game changing" debut!


----------



## Erik.

cai1981 said:


> People were STILL waiting for that "game changing" debut!


No they weren't. 

It was leaked to be Keith Lee and Jay White before the show, that's what they got.


----------



## cai1981

Erik. said:


> No they weren't.
> 
> It was leaked to be Keith Lee and Jay White before the show, that's what they got.


...leaked about them, but people were waiting for Shane McMahon!


----------



## The XL 2

Everyone wants to celebrate AEW low 1 million number, but really, at this point they should be beating Raw in overall viewership. Their are millions of people who abandoned WWEs product over the last 5-6 years, those people are their for the taking but AEW hasn't established a coherent enough product and still push far too much low level amateur indy talent, which they don't need to do anymore now that they finally have a decent roster.


----------



## Dr. Middy

cai1981 said:


> ...leaked about them, but people were waiting for Shane McMahon!


I feel immense pity for any people who were waiting and excited for Shane Mcmahon doing anything in 2022.


----------



## DammitChrist

Dr. Middy said:


> I feel immense pity for any people who were waiting and excited for Shane Mcmahon doing anything in 2022.


There's probably someone out there on this planet who was excited and was waiting for Dr. Shelby to show up on Dynamite.


----------



## cai1981

Dr. Middy said:


> I feel immense pity for any people who were waiting and excited for Shane Mcmahon doing anything in 2022.


As do I!


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

The XL 2 said:


> Everyone wants to celebrate AEW low 1 million number, but really, at this point they should be beating Raw in overall viewership. Their are millions of people who abandoned WWEs product over the last 5-6 years, those people are their for the taking but AEW hasn't established a coherent enough product and still push far too much low level amateur indy talent, which they don't need to do anymore now that they finally have a decent roster.


I don't see how any wrestling show's viewership numbers could be celebrated at all nowadays, 1 million for a pro wrestling show is pathetic, hell even 2 million for a show like SmackDown is pathetic. 

The fact that wrestling has fallen so far and fan's have just accepted it and lowered their standards to the point that these sort of numbers are considered "good".


----------



## Geert Wilders

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I don't see how any wrestling show's viewership numbers could be celebrated at all nowadays, 1 million for a pro wrestling show is pathetic, hell even 2 million for a show like SmackDown is pathetic.
> 
> The fact that wrestling has fallen so far and fan's have just accepted it and lowered their standards to the point that these sort of numbers are considered "good".


It is because less people are subscribing to cable. The number drops every year.
There are now several other avenues to watch wrestling. What is being reported is literally 1 avenue - the live viewers.
It’s not an accurate depiction of actual numbers anymore.

People acting like live viewership is the holy grail for measurement of popularity need to sit down.


----------



## CovidFan

Geert Wilders said:


> It is because less people are subscribing to cable. The number drops every year.
> There are now several other avenues to watch wrestling. What is being reported is literally 1 avenue - the live viewers.
> It’s not an accurate depiction of actual numbers anymore.
> 
> People acting like live viewership is the holy grail for measurement of popularity need to sit down.


Just to add on to this. I'm a fan of AEW but I've never watched them on cable. I don't have cable. But I'm catching most shows via some stream or d/l later. I'd imagine I'm not the only one like this. When I watched WWF/WCW in 1997 I had to have cable to see both.



> The fact that wrestling has fallen so far and fan's have just accepted it and lowered their standards to the point that these sort of numbers are considered "good".


I also wonder what alternative you want. Do you want people to just cry nonstop over 2022's reality?


----------



## Dr. Middy

Regarding the rapid shift of viewers from traditional cable to streaming and other online avenues, this article does a tremendous job of showing just how stark a change there's been.









Fading Ratings: How Far Broadcast TV Has Tumbled Since 2015


New VIP+ Analysis: The steep decline in 18-49s tuning in underscores a viewership landscape radically different today than the one of yore.




variety.com





Live sports are still king, especially the NFL, but every single type of cable programming is down drastically in the last 5-10 years, and it's making the idea of tracking viewership using only live TV ratings pretty archaic in nature. Even music as a medium has pivoted to using streaming sales, youtube viewership, and other metrics instead of just pure album sales, since most people don't buy physical media anymore.

Now, that doesn't justify overall wrestling ratings, but presents a pretty concrete reason for why they aren't higher than we used to see. What would be interesting is if we could one day get statistical data from streaming networks to get a better idea of actual viewership. I know billboard charts declare X amounts of streams when calling a track gold or platinum, it's probably overdue for TV to do this.


----------



## Teemu™

You guys are all coping with this nonsense. Fact is, if The Rock and Steve Austin were headlining AEW Dynamite, it would draw 8 million viewers. It's just these geeks today can't draw.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1492937761900445697Edit: woops


----------



## Prized Fighter

GNKenny said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1492937761900445697Numbers like this for a one hour B Show is pretty cool


The tweet says Dynamite - Rampage, so I would think that means both shows. Unless the full name for Rampage is "Dynamite - Rampage."


----------



## El Hammerstone

GNKenny said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1492937761900445697Numbers like this for a one hour B Show is pretty cool


Fairly certain the main priority for these fans was Dynamite


----------



## TD Stinger

Prized Fighter said:


> The tweet says Dynamite - Rampage, so I would think that means both shows. Unless the full name for Rampage is "Dynamite - Rampage."


Those bastards, stealing the WWE way.

WrestleMania Backlash anyone?


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Prized Fighter said:


> The tweet says Dynamite - Rampage, so I would think that means both shows. Unless the full name for Rampage is "Dynamite - Rampage."





El Hammerstone said:


> Fairly certain the main priority for these fans was Dynamite


You guys are right! I dunno how I missed that. Hmph. Guess I should have had that coffee after all.

Well...the number is still good....despite me somehow misreading that.


----------



## Prized Fighter

TD Stinger said:


> Those bastards, stealing the WWE way.
> 
> WrestleMania Backlash anyone?


AEW presents Revolution - Dynamite - Rampage - Dark - Elevation


----------



## 3venflow

No surprises here with the return of live events, several 10,000+ attendances and record PPV buys. When the next TV rights deal is in place, they'll be making tons of cash.

Thurston also said '_AEW's TV deal with WarnerMedia comes with a 10% escalator each year with of course a share of the ad revenue.

With better PPV buyrates, live gates, merch and possible video game sales... there's a very good chance they cross $100M this year._'


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493254229011890176


----------



## fabi1982

Werent numbers „not available“ because of private company. Now someone guesstimates shit and you buy it because he is a wrestling „journalist“ using excel? Im all for numbers, but I can make you a chart showing AEW didnt gain any revenue, would you believe me?


----------



## Not Lying

fabi1982 said:


> Werent numbers „not available“ because of private company. Now someone guesstimates shit and you buy it because he is a wrestling „journalist“ using excel? Im all for numbers, but I can make you a chart showing AEW didnt gain any revenue, would you believe me?


if you can guesstimate shit using logic and publically available numbers and go through the effort of adding them up, sure, show your work. 
This is actually a very solid model the guy built. The closest thing to guess would be the consumer products part which is a small% of the total.


----------



## 3venflow

fabi1982 said:


> Werent numbers „not available“ because of private company. Now someone guesstimates shit and you buy it because he is a wrestling „journalist“ using excel? Im all for numbers, but I can make you a chart showing AEW didnt gain any revenue, would you believe me?


If it was well researched using available data, then yes. Thurston studies data to incredible detail (I watch his livestream and he's the best at this) and his estimated PPV buys have turned out to be almost dead on. His info is likely to be as close to accurate as possible for someone not inside the company, as the economics of pro wrestling is what he specializes in. He also covers WWE numbers.









WWE is at least slightly undervalued - Wrestlenomics


Brandon Thurston estimates WWE's profitability, and argues, based on a moderate multiple, the company's stock may be underpriced.




wrestlenomics.com





Plus, many of the numbers are out there of how many tickets they sell and gate estimates from WrestleTix. That + TV deal + estimated PPV buys makes it fairly straightforward to make an educated guess of income via those three key metrics. The biggest question mark would be general merchandise sales, which I don't even see on his charts and which is difficult to guess.


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> if you can guesstimate shit using logic and publically available numbers and go through the effort of adding them up, sure, show your work.
> This is actually a very solid model the guy built. The closest thing to guess would be the consumer products part which is a small% of the total.


Ok so where does he get the ecommerce value? Because prowrestlingtees gives this out or he just asked someone in AEW? Same with venue merchandise, so he just gets this info because he does an exce spredsheet? Same with ppv buys, these numbers never come out, is this meltzer numbers? He knows domestic and worldwide? Same with digital advertising, he goes and asks youtube for recenue numbers? And the other amount? Asked tony for numbers?

so yeah I can do that myself, you just have to trust me as much as this random dude you never met.


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> If it was well researched using available data, then yes. Thurston studies data to incredible detail (I watch his livestream and he's the best at this) and his estimated PPV buys have turned out to be almost dead on. His info is likely to be as close to accurate as possible for someone not inside the company, as the economics of pro wrestling is what he specializes in. He also covers WWE numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE is at least slightly undervalued - Wrestlenomics
> 
> 
> Brandon Thurston estimates WWE's profitability, and argues, based on a moderate multiple, the company's stock may be underpriced.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wrestlenomics.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus, many of the numbers are out there of how many tickets they sell and gate estimates from WrestleTix. That + TV deal + estimated PPV buys makes it fairly straightforward to make an educated guess of income via those three key metrics. The biggest question mark would be general merchandise sales, which I don't even see on his charts and which is difficult to guess.


See my other post. Just because wrestetix gives you numbers you dont know how many tickets tk buys…and the other stuff I said to TDOT.


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage finished 10th on cable last Friday with a 0.19 and 549,000 viewers. Viewership was slightly up from the week before but the key demo down by 0.01.












fabi1982 said:


> See my other post. Just because wrestetix gives you numbers you dont know how many tickets tk buys…and the other stuff I said to TDOT.


In the absence of official data, you can only rely on guesstimates. In that case, Thurston is the best in this field, so no he won't be 100% spot on, but he puts so much effort into his work that he's very, very likely to be in right range.

I'm not getting into the WWE fan conspiracy theories of TK buying tickets, etc. It's bullshit and ticket sales are not one of AEW's weaker points. Social media is one of their weaker points.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Ok so where does he get the ecommerce value? Because prowrestlingtees gives this out or he just asked someone in AEW? Same with venue merchandise, so he just gets this info because he does an exce spredsheet? Same with ppv buys, these numbers never come out, is this meltzer numbers? He knows domestic and worldwide? Same with digital advertising, he goes and asks youtube for recenue numbers? And the other amount? Asked tony for numbers?
> 
> so yeah I can do that myself, you just have to trust me as much as this random dude you never met.


the guy who started wrestlenomics now works with AEW - he does their data and analytics

so, they kinda have a very credible inside source

like super credible


----------



## ProjectGargano

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the guy who started wrestlenomics now works with AEW - he does their data and analytics
> 
> so, they kinda have a very credible inside source
> 
> like super credible


But Fabi doesn´t want AEW to have revenue, and if someone reports it, he says that it isn´t true because he doesn´t want to.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the guy who started wrestlenomics now works with AEW - he does their data and analytics
> 
> so, they kinda have a very credible inside source
> 
> like super credible


So you have some twitter account post your revenue numbers, when AEW itself doesnt do it? So Tony have this guy do his numbers and let him push them out?

But I guess thats why we dont see any numbers on costs, basically trying to paint a picture which could be very very different, when costs increase even more than the revenue, but hey lets not try to think like a business man but like a blind AEW follower. And this goes not in your direction, but the guy below your comment trying to spin stuff, when I as a busines man myself am baffeled about such a behaviour.


----------



## ProjectGargano

fabi1982 said:


> So you have some twitter account post your revenue numbers, when AEW itself doesnt do it? So Tony have this guy do his numbers and let him push them out?
> 
> But I guess thats why we dont see any numbers on costs, basically trying to paint a picture which could be very very different, when costs increase even more than the revenue, but hey lets not try to think like a business man but like a blind AEW follower. And this goes not in your direction, but the guy below your comment trying to spin stuff, when I as a busines man myself am baffeled about such a behaviour.


Oh, you are a business man? Now I believe that they are on the red. I am sorry!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> So you have some twitter account post your revenue numbers, when AEW itself doesnt do it? So Tony have this guy do his numbers and let him push them out?
> 
> But I guess thats why we dont see any numbers on costs, basically trying to paint a picture which could be very very different, when costs increase even more than the revenue, but hey lets not try to think like a business man but like a blind AEW follower. And this goes not in your direction, but the guy below your comment trying to spin stuff, when I as a busines man myself am baffeled about such a behaviour.


i’m only addressing the credibility of the twitter acc / nothing else really


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493633453224456192

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*They set Britt up to fail by putting her against an unknown indy wrestler with no build. Even the tease of ass licking couldn't get people to watch this shit. It's also time to put Hook on Dynamite against real opponents. 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493633453224456192*


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

TD Stinger said:


> Those bastards, stealing the WWE way.
> 
> WrestleMania Backlash anyone?


*The Tribal Chief always wins!







*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *They set Britt up to fail by putting her against an unknown indy wrestler with no build. Even the tease of ass licking couldn't get people to watch this shit. It's also time to put Hook on Dynamite against real opponents.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493633453224456192*


bucks draw best


----------



## Soul Rex

3venflow said:


> No surprises here with the return of live events, several 10,000+ attendances and record PPV buys. When the next TV rights deal is in place, they'll be making tons of cash.
> 
> Thurston also said '_AEW's TV deal with WarnerMedia comes with a 10% escalator each year with of course a share of the ad revenue.
> 
> With better PPV buyrates, live gates, merch and possible video game sales... there's a very good chance they cross $100M this year._'
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493254229011890176


Didn't they spend like a lot on that video game? Revenue will obviously increase, but Khan is spending way more money than that


----------



## ProjectGargano

Soul Rex said:


> Didn't they spend like a lot on that video game? Revenue will obviously increase, but Khan is spending way more money than that


Talking about that, i just realized that Cody won't be on the videogame, which is sad.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493967449594683396
*Hell has frozen over.*



LifeInCattleClass said:


> bucks draw best


*Put them against randoms off the street with no build and see how they do.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493967449594683396
> *Hell has frozen over.
> 
> 
> Put them against randoms off the street with no build and see how they do.*


you know in your heart of hearts the Bucks will make it work

Based Bucks are Best for Bloody Good Ratings Baby


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Legit Lioness said:


> *They set Britt up to fail by putting her against an unknown indy wrestler with no build. Even the tease of ass licking couldn't get people to watch this shit. It's also time to put Hook on Dynamite against real opponents.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493633453224456192*


Depending on if they care or not, most of AEW's top stars probably are not going to draw well in a match with somebody unknown like that. Jade's match with AQA lost a lot of people too. Like, it's cool to bring somebody in to try them out, but unless it's a quick squash or somebody new that is like at the level of an Ember Moon, that kind of thing probably should be kept on Dark or Elevation. 

Hook probably has a match with QT and kills him on Dynamite, seems like that's where they're going. Really want him to actually fight some other guys higher than who he's been facing though, hell I'd have him feuding for the TNT title by mid Spring if the crowds keep their engagement for him.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494414990085955586

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Truly bizarre. Shows that quality doesn't always = the best ratings as the show has been almost overwhelmingly praised as one of, if not the best Dynamite of late.

No Cody, no party? 😏


----------



## Sad Panda

What?? How is that number even possible at this point?


----------



## holy

The long wrestling matches gotta stop. I know many people loved the Bryan Danielson match last night, but I found myself barely paying attention and thinking it was too long. I was just patiently waiting to get to his promo part.

Save the long matches for the PPVs!


----------



## fabi1982

Thats the Cody effect, no Cody, no ratings.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Wow that’s not good. Wonder what the quarters show?


----------



## Sad Panda

Is it true? Is it getting to the point where AEW can only pop a rating when there’s a debut?


----------



## Geeee

AEW sending Cody that last minute CM Punk deal


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Closer to 1994 WWF Superstars NXT 2.0 than RAW. Guess they need to book another debut next week. They're also spending way, way more money. Plus look at all the supposed stars they have. Sad!

Okay, I'm done. That's my clapback, you scamps.


----------



## 3venflow

holy said:


> The long wrestling matches gotta stop.


Last week had two matches longer than anything this week, was up against the start of the Olympics, and did a strong number.


----------



## Geeee

Maybe it was a shitty episode of Big Bang Theory this week


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Sad Panda said:


> Is it true? Is it getting to the point where AEW can only pop a rating when there’s a debut?


We're certainly starting to see a trend here...if I remember the numbers right.


----------



## Kishido

Next week Bray will debut... And after it someone new. Each week a new debut for the ratings from now on


----------



## 3venflow

Somehow, even with the sharp demo drop, it managed to finish third on cable behind only the NBA. 🤷‍♂️

Even so, it was AEW's lowest number in both viewership and the all-important 18-49 since the move to TBS.


----------



## holy

3venflow said:


> Last week had two matches longer than anything this week, was up against the start of the Olympics, and did a strong number.


My guess is that the suspense of Tony's "major announcement" is what drew in viewers last week. That's why I tuned in.

When I found out it was only Keith Lee, it left a sour taste in my mouth. No offense to him, but he's not a big enough of a star to warrant such hype.


----------



## Mr316

Ratings suck because absolutely nothing stands out. Everything is kind of okay or good but nothing is must see TV. Good luck when Stone Cold shows up on WWE TV while AEW has a guy the size of Riho feuding for the world title.


----------



## Joe Gill

no surprises = no ratings. when are people in this forum going to accept the fact that casual fans could care less about long workrate matches and indy garbage. They want their surprises, drama/controversy and they want their larger than life personalities. The Daniel Bryans and CM Punks will only cater to hardcore fans.... until TK invests heavily in getting a larger than life personality over than AEW will continue to hover with these mediocre ratings. Vince invested heavily in Hogan, Rock, Austin, Cena and Reigns and it paid off. Who is TK investing in? Vanilla midgets? Handman Page? 
Wardlow and Hobbs should be the pillars... not dorks like jungle boy and darby that only appeal to basement dwellers.


----------



## Outlaw91

Good show, bad ratings.


----------



## Erik.

This Week - 869,000 - (.31) 

Last Week - 1,129,000 - (.41) 

Last Year - 747,000 - (.31) 


I've given up wondering what drives ratings tbh. Last week got a great rating based off a great card. This week had another great card and its down. 

Though #3 on the night with a low demo...

Meh. 

Enjoyable show.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Ratings should never drop that much for a good episode. If you look at the ratings for the NBA game that was up against Dynamite last week and the one this week, you can see where the viewership went. Those games had a 200k overall viewership increase and a .10 increase in the demo. Almost a direct correlation to the amounts AEW dropped.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Sad Panda said:


> Is it true? Is it getting to the point where AEW can only pop a rating when there’s a debut?


*They're finally realizing the truth LMAO 🤣🤣🤣

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494414990085955586*


----------



## ProjectGargano

This was surprisingly bad, it was my favorite AEW episode this year and I tought that would be the one breaking the 1.2M barrier.


----------



## holy

At some point, it has to sink in how SHOCKING it is that CM Punk returned to pro wrestling after 7 years, and the viewership now with him on the show is lower than some shows before he came.


----------



## Erik.

Just checking and the Olympics were down by almost 3 million viewers this week and that's on Network TV

Ameeicans, what happened that made people just not want to watch TV yesterday?


----------



## Geeee

holy said:


> My guess is that the suspense of Tony's "major announcement" is what drew in viewers last week. That's why I tuned in.
> 
> When I found out it was only Keith Lee, it left a sour taste in my mouth. No offense to him, but he's not a big enough of a star to warrant such hype.


If the debut last week was Shane McMahon or Triple H, would it suddenly make you a fan of AEW that watches the show every week?


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

holy said:


> At some point, it has to sink in how SHOCKING it is that CM Punk returned to pro wrestling after 7 years, and the viewership now with him on the show is lower than some shows before he came.


Because he does interesting nothing at all. If he joined then won a belt or started a serious hot feud maybe that would have held viewers.

AEW needs to get the belt off Page asap. The guy is boring as fuck, and failed as a main eventer. He should been TNT champion instead for a while until he gains a personality and charisma.

Give the belt to Cole and let him be a transition champ to drop it someone else like Punk, Bryan, Big show, Y2J or Kenny.


----------



## TD Stinger




----------



## 3venflow

3rd on cable, 11th on all American TV. I don't see anything competition-wise that last week didn't have. It did have a weaker lead-in number than usual.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Number sucks. 

I thought the show ruled and it seemed pretty universally well liked by everybody.

Guess AEW is dying though. I blame Adam Cole and his flabby, definition lacking shitty body.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Erik. said:


> Just checking and the Olympics were down by almost 3 million viewers this week and that's on Network TV
> 
> Ameeicans, what happened that made people just not want to watch TV yesterday?


* The Russian girl cheating and still being allowed to compete is what turned people off from the Olympics. There is no excuse for Dynamite. They had no real competition.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494422607059374081*


----------



## Sad Panda

It’s just such an absurd decline. Obviously you have to hope that next week the number shoots upwards, but man, that’s a head scratcher and really quite discouraging.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Cody = Ratings confirmed


give Cody that Punk money TK


----------



## rbl85

I stopped trying to understand the ratings a long time ago.

Sometime you have a big number "out of nowhere" without knowing the reason or sometime you have a big drop also without any explanation....


----------



## drougfree

ouch that hurts


----------



## RLT1981

I tried to tell you guys last week noone knew who the fuck Jay White was so hyping him up was laughable maybe now some of you will get a clue and see these clowns from new japan don't draw shit here in the states.


----------



## Prized Fighter

3venflow said:


> 3rd on cable, 11th on all American TV. I don't see anything competition-wise that last week didn't have. It did have a weaker lead-in number than usual.
> 
> View attachment 116969


The NBA game that they faced was Nets vs Knicks. I am wondering if AEW has a heavy fanbase in the New York market and those fans tuned out of Dynamite to watch their two hometown teams. It would explain the large drop in the 2nd half of the show. The game started out as a blow out before the Nets made a big come back to win.

No excuses though. This type of drop should never happen.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

‘We want Brandi!’-gang confirmed!


----------



## Erik.

The Legit Lioness said:


> * The Russian girl cheating and still being allowed to compete is what turned people off from the Olympics. There is no excuse for Dynamite. They had no real competition.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494422607059374081*


No doubt. 

Luckily, the show was really good. So hopefully the fans who didn't watch this week (or didn't watch live) will be back next week.


----------



## DammitChrist

Jeez, was last night an anomaly or something?

That was honestly one of the best Dynamite episodes this year too.

Edit:

Plus, as much as I love the guy, I don't really feel like joking about Cody Rhodes helping maintain the ratings.


----------



## Erik.

DammitChrist said:


> Jeez, was last night an anomaly or something?
> 
> That was honestly one of the best Dynamite episodes this year too.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Plus, as much as I love the guy, I don't really feel like joking about Cody Rhodes helping maintain the ratings.


Going off of the demo, it seems like TV in general was down. 

0.31 would have seen them 6th last week. This week they were top 3.

Its a huge drop though and their lead in from the Big Bang Theory didn't seem anywhere near as big this week.


----------



## DaSlacker

Personally I just think the market for modern wrestling (on TV) is oversaturated. Both AEW and WWE look and feel too interchangeable to the casual observer. That and the initial appeal of All Elite Wrestling is wearing off. 

There's a bit of a late 90's WCW thing going on where there's lots and lots of in ring action. Plus a who will show up this week kind of thing to drive ratings. Solid yet missable or inconsistent to too many people. Or simply not the product to make those 1.8 million WWE viewers make the jump and 1 million lost viewers to return. 

Back in 2019 there should have been more thought and research placed into what former wrestling viewers were looking for.


----------



## fabi1982

Two things:

1. sad that TBBT dictates the rating of a wrestling show. Bad lead in bad rating, good lead in good rating.

2. two if the four pillars basically losing viewers in the last quarter…


----------



## ProjectGargano

RLT1981 said:


> I tried to tell you guys last week noone knew who the fuck Jay White was so hyping him up was laughable maybe now some of you will get a clue and see these clowns from new japan don't draw shit here in the states.


Do you know that Jay White wasn´t on the show, right?


----------



## DammitChrist

RLT1981 said:


> I tried to tell you guys last week noone knew who the fuck Jay White was so hyping him up was laughable maybe now some of you will get a clue and see these clowns from new japan don't draw shit here in the states.


Dude, Jay White wasn't even advertised last night.

He's advertised for Rampage tomorrow night, and he only got like 40 seconds of TV time on Dynamite this week when many of us fans THOUGHT that he'd be absent around 100 minutes into the show.

Besides, I don't get why you feel the need to insult or discredit any of the guys from NJPW when a good portion of the audience would enjoy seeing many of their top guys too. I also don't see why you'd think that they'd 'tank' the ratings too.


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> Just checking and the Olympics were down by almost 3 million viewers this week and that's on Network TV
> 
> Ameeicans, what happened that made people just not want to watch TV yesterday?


Secret national orgy... That I was uninvited from


----------



## DammitChrist

ProjectGargano said:


> Do you know that Jay White wasn´t on the show, right?


White was there, but he only got like 40 seconds of (backstage) promo time to hype up Kenny Omega and his match tomorrow night on Rampage.

It also happened VERY late on the show too.

I think you meant to say that White was never advertised, which is 100% true


----------



## Seafort

holy said:


> The long wrestling matches gotta stop. I know many people loved the Bryan Danielson match last night, but I found myself barely paying attention and thinking it was too long. I was just patiently waiting to get to his promo part.
> 
> Save the long matches for the PPVs!


Danielson’s opponent is a JAG at this point. He might as well have been Mike Michaels or Johnny Jonathan. I don’t care if Danielson mentioned him previously, but he has absolutely no character. There is no reason to watch him, especially in a long form match.

AEW’s model is getting worrisome...based off of the one week sugar high of new signings and debuts versus the sustained character building of 2020. Like WCW, they’ll eventually run out of people to sign.

Where was Keith’s in ring interview announcing why he was there, why WWE was wrong in casting him aside? Put that into hour 1 and maybe you have some additional intrigue.


----------



## Prosper

Damn that's crazy, bad numbers this week.

Was a great show too with Darby Allin in the main event, a guy who is proven to draw.

But hey its live cable, anything can happen to make people not watch. I mean the Youtube video views combined that were posted today and last night already surpass the entire overall rating for Dynamite last night, so I mean whatever. They'll be back up next week.

Funny how everyone has their "reasoning" as far as what was on the show as to why ratings were low, but those same points wouldn't be brought up if they were over a mil lol.


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


> Secret national orgy... That I was uninvited from


You gotta check that spam folder. Invites get lost in there every time.


----------



## 3venflow

Imagine blaming Jay White, who was on screen for about 40 or 50 seconds. White is one of those guys who _could_ have a long-term positive effect on AEW if under a contract, because he's one of the few (like MJF) who understands heel psychology and comes across as serious and dangerous. He's everything TK will want Cole to be.

Every wrestler is no one until he is someone. Seth Rollins was Tyler Black in ROH, Jon Moxley was, well, Jon Moxley in CZW and DGUSA.

Jay could be a headliner in AEW or WWE with the correct presentation. Since he's signed to New Japan, it's unlikely he'll be able to reach that status at this point, but down the line who knows.


----------



## Mr316

Some of you just don’t want to see it. There’s nothing great about the product. Good promo. Good wrestling. But what people want is fireworks. Simply not enough fireworks in AEW.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Darby and Sammy went under 800? Sheesh. Pillars you say?


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Darby and Sammy went under 800? Sheesh. Pillars you say?


I mean, doesn't Darby Allin usually perform really well with the ratings over the past couple of years?


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> I mean, doesn't Darby Allin usually perform really well with the ratings over the past couple of years?



Maybe, but there's no skating that a title match between "two pillars" doing a number like that is straight up disastrous.


----------



## Prosper

Mr316 said:


> Some of you just don’t want to see it. There’s nothing great about the product. Good promo. Good wrestling. But what people want is fireworks. Simply not enough fireworks in AEW.


Some of you don't get that you can't have fireworks every week. You really expect them to blow their load to the max every week? Then what does that save for the future? We have gotten plenty of fireworks, great matches, great promos, and shows in AEW, a lot more than we have gotten from WWE in the last 10 years. Last night's show was great it just didn't generate a high live cable rating. Darby has drawn big numbers in the past, so he draws a low one this week and the sky is falling?

You can't just look at a live cable number and shit on the show in hindsight, especially after enjoying it in real time. Makes no goddamn sense. The live cable numbers don't tell the whole story. I don't know how many times I have to say this shit lol. I miss the show live at least twice a month. Last night I couldn't start watching until 12AM. Yes its a low number but have a little perspective por favor.


----------



## RainmakerV2

And they usually lead in with 1.2 or so million. Obviously people weren't turned on by Keith Lee or Jay White (as much as I love him.) And it seems like more than a few were turned off. Maybe it's time for Tony to just shut up on the internet unless he has an actual big name signed. It's not helping. It's hurting.


----------



## Seafort

ProjectGargano said:


> Do you know that Jay White wasn´t on the show, right?


Why should I care about Jay White anymore than Jay Jaemison if I have not seen NJPW. AEW needs to make me care...otherwise he is simply a random JAG.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

DaSlacker said:


> There's a bit of a late 90's WCW thing going on where there's lots and lots of in ring action. Plus a who will show up this week kind of thing to drive ratings. Solid yet missable or inconsistent to too many people.


Worked just fine for the WCW audience though. 'Til the entire company went down the tubes at breakneck speed that is.

Personally I'd rather see good matches on Nitro than 99% of RAW is Russo.


----------



## RLT1981

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, Jay White wasn't even advertised last night.
> 
> He's advertised for Rampage tomorrow night, and he only got like 40 seconds of TV time on Dynamite this week when many of us fans THOUGHT that he'd be absent around 100 minutes into the show.
> 
> Besides, I don't get why you feel the need to insult or discredit any of the guys from NJPW when a good portion of the audience would enjoy seeing many of their top guys too. I also don't see why you'd think that they'd 'tank' the ratings too.


AEW pissed off fans by thinking they cared about Jay White when they was expecting a big name to show up and got this new japan clown instead.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> Secret national orgy... That I was uninvited from [emoji20]


It was a blast.


----------



## Mr316

Prosper said:


> Some of you don't get that you can't have fireworks every week. You really expect them to blow their load to the max every week? Then what does that save for the future? We have gotten plenty of fireworks, great matches, great promos, and shows in AEW, a lot more than we have gotten from WWE in the last 10 years. Last night's show was great it just didn't generate a high live cable rating. Darby has drawn big numbers in the past, so he draws a low one this week and the sky is falling?
> 
> You can't just look at a live cable number and shit on the show in hindsight, especially after enjoying it in real time. Makes no goddamn sense. The live cable numbers don't tell the whole story. I don't know how many times I have to say this shit lol. I miss the show live at least twice a month. Last night I couldn't start watching until 12AM. Yes its a low number but have a little perspective por favor.


You don’t understand the definition of fireworks.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Erik. said:


> No doubt.
> 
> Luckily, the show was really good. So hopefully the fans who didn't watch this week (or didn't watch live) will be back next week.


* I actually agree with you. My issue is with Tony Khan heavily relying on these debuts for rating spikes instead of putting emphasis on the quality of his shows. The effective way to do this would be to not say anything about the debuts and just let them happen on their own. This would incentivize the audience to tune in all the time, because they never know when someone is coming. He is training his audience not to watch unless he has 10,000 big announcements, which is killing his own viewership.*


----------



## ProjectGargano

Seafort said:


> Why should I care about Jay White anymore than Jay Jaemison if I have not seen NJPW. AEW needs to make me care...otherwise he is simply a random JAG.


I didn´t talked about that, you care if you want. I am just saying that Jay White cannot be the cause of this low rating, because he barely was on the show.


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> And they usually lead in with 1.2 or so million. Obviously people weren't turned on by Keith Lee or Jay White (as much as I love him.) And it seems like more than a few were turned off. Maybe it's time for Tony to just shut up on the internet unless he has an actual big name signed. It's not helping. It's hurting.


So from your line of thinking, 2 new debuts pissed people off to the point where they lost interest in the entire product? 😂 Lol okay. "F**k CM Punk and Moxley because Jay White is on the show now!"

It blows my mind that you all are blaming Jay White, a guy that has had a total of 90 seconds of AEW TV time or Keith Lee, a guy that had nothing but a squash match last week.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Prosper said:


> Damn that's crazy, bad numbers this week.
> 
> Was a great show too with Darby Allin in the main event, a guy who is proven to draw.
> 
> But hey its live cable, anything can happen to make people not watch. I mean the Youtube video views combined that were posted today and last night already surpass the entire overall rating for Dynamite last night, so I mean whatever. They'll be back up next week.


Next week there definitely can't be any excuses. No NBA games at all, no Olympics and South Park has settle into a rating below Dynamite.


----------



## DammitChrist

Honestly, I highly doubt that Tony Khan's announcements *on Twitter *are actually driving TV viewers away.



RLT1981 said:


> AEW pissed off fans by thinking they cared about Jay White when they was expecting a big name to show up and got this new japan clown instead.


Ooh, trust me, Jay White is ANYTHING but a clown.

He's honestly one of the best heels in the industry (along with MJF).

I think you should at least give the guy a chance, and watch him for a while longer.

For the record, you do realize that White is like NJPW's top 5-6 biggest star, right?

Their top biggest stars in order include Kazuchika Okada, Hiroshi Tanahashi, Tetsuya Naito, Kota Ibushi, Jay White, and Will Ospreay (who you COULD realistically rank above White interchangeably based on star power nowadays).


----------



## Prosper

Mr316 said:


> You don’t understand the definition of fireworks.


If by fireworks you don't mean a "Grand Slam" level show every week then what do you mean. Obviously you want them to give you everything all at once every week. Then 3 months later, people like you are on here complaining about how they ran through too much too fast and how the shows are now boring.


----------



## RLT1981

ProjectGargano said:


> I didn´t talked about that, you care if you want. I am just saying that Jay White cannot be the cause of this low rating, because he barely was on the show.


he is to blame cause AEW hype him like last week as one of there big surpraises and we have fans show ole Tony they are not to happy with him right now by tuning out.


----------



## omaroo

Man really bad rating and no excuses really. 

Afraid to say but ratings consistency for 1 million plus will never be the case for AEW. 

You will see sharp rises and declines.


----------



## RLT1981

DammitChrist said:


> Honestly, I highly doubt that Tony Khan's announcements *on Twitter *are actually driving TV view
> 
> 
> 
> Ooh, trust me, Jay White is ANYTHING but a clown. He's one of the best heels in the industry (along with MJF).
> 
> I think you should at least give the guy a chance, and watch him for a while longer.
> 
> For the record, you do realize that White is like NJPW's top 5-6 biggest star, right?
> 
> Their top biggest stars include Kazuchika Okada, Hiroshi Tanahashi, Tetsuya Naito, Kota Ibushi, Jay White, and Will Ospreay (who you COULD realistically rank above White interchangeably based on star power nowadays).


if you watch new japan great I hope you enjoy it but its not right for Tony to think everyone watches new japan and hype this guy up like he is Brock Lesnar or John Cena.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Prosper said:


> Some of you don't get that you can't have fireworks every week. You really expect them to blow their load to the max every week? Then what does that save for the future? We have gotten plenty of fireworks, great matches, great promos, and shows in AEW, a lot more than we have gotten from WWE in the last 10 years. Last night's show was great it just didn't generate a high live cable rating. Darby has drawn big numbers in the past, so he draws a low one this week and the sky is falling?
> 
> You can't just look at a live cable number and shit on the show in hindsight, especially after enjoying it in real time. Makes no goddamn sense. The live cable numbers don't tell the whole story. I don't know how many times I have to say this shit lol. I miss the show live at least twice a month. Last night I couldn't start watching until 12AM. Yes its a low number but have a little perspective por favor.



What he means is, maybe Daniel Bryan going 10 minutes through a commercial with a guy who's never won a match on Dynamite. Punk and MJF has gone way too long, how long has it been since that big promo that got the millions of views on YouTube? The match should have happened a week or two after. Now no one cares. And why should I tune in for a no DQ match when I see one EVERY SHOW. 

How long has it been since Moxley and Bryan had that little staredown? What are they doing, still just yacking at each other. Haven't touched. They're so up their ass with "long term storytelling" and the fact they have 3 months between PPVs that they never strike while the iron is hot on anything and the apex is never at the right time. People will eventually get tired of waiting and just say "let me know when they actually fight."


And Sammy Guevara sucks. Ive never gotten the appeal at all.


----------



## Prosper

Prized Fighter said:


> Next week there definitely can't be any excuses. No NBA games at all, no Olympics and South Park has settle into a rating below Dynamite.


I mean there are no excuses this week either, it was a bad rating, its just annoying how people try to justify their personal opinions on the product by live cable ratings that are always going to fluctuate regardless. There's no perspective just a bunch of childish takes.


----------



## Dr. Middy

It'll be interesting to see ratings over the next few months to really get a better picture, because nothing make sense that would suddenly drop it like that, regardless about what anybody is saying about debuts, Jay White, indy vanilla midgets, fireworks, or what have you.

If this is some sort of trends where they can't get over a million again, it's a much bigger overall issue even with the show being as good as most of us like to think it is. But if they somehow end up right at or over a million again and can stay around that, it might just be an outlier or something.


----------



## holy

Geeee said:


> If the debut last week was Shane McMahon or Triple H, would it suddenly make you a fan of AEW that watches the show every week?


I'm not sure what one thing has to do with another. But to answer your question, if Shane or HHH showed up last week, which everyone on this planet knows that there is not even a 1% chance that will ever happen, then yes, I would tune in to watch weekly. I mean, who wouldn't? 

But the fact is that Tony again promised a huge surprise last week, and the name that showed up was not the upto the mark of how he was promoting it. No one was saying it had to be a massive superstar - just someone that atleast casuals could identify with. Seems like a reasonable explanation for such a massive ratings drop to me.


----------



## DammitChrist

I really think that you'd be severely butchering the CM Punk vs MJF feud if you were to immediately put them in a match around Thanksgiving time last year.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

RainmakerV2 said:


> What he means is, maybe Daniel Bryan going 10 minutes through a commercial with a guy who's never won a match on Dynamite. Punk and MJF has gone way too long, how long has it been since that big promo that got the millions of views on YouTube? The match should have happened a week or two after. Now no one cares. And why should I tune in for a no DQ match when I see one EVERY SHOW.
> 
> How long has it been since Moxley and Bryan had that little staredown? What are they doing, still just yacking at each other. Haven't touched. They're so up their ass with "long term storytelling" and the fact they have 3 months between PPVs that they never strike while the iron is hot on anything and the apex is never at the right time. People will eventually get tired of waiting and just say "let me know when they actually fight."
> 
> 
> And Sammy Guevara sucks. Ive never gotten the appeal at all.


I agree with this for the most part. Only thing is I wouldn't have had Punk wrestle MJF that fast.


----------



## Mr316

Prosper said:


> If by fireworks you don't mean a "Grand Slam" level show every week then what do you mean. Obviously you want them to give you everything all at once every week. Then 3 months later, people like you are on here complaining about how they ran through too much too fast and how the shows are now boring.


Not at all. Grand Slam kind of shows are not even good for TV in my opinion. What I want is more creativity that leads to great moments. Segments that actually stand out. Remember Austin driving the zamboni? Mcmahon’s limousine exploding? They need to create moments that stand out within their storylines.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Prosper said:


> So from your line of thinking, 2 new debuts pissed people off to the point where they lost interest in the entire product? 😂 Lol okay. "F**k CM Punk and Moxley because Jay White is on the show now!"
> 
> It blows my mind that you all are blaming Jay White, a guy that has had a total of 90 seconds of AEW TV time or Keith Lee, a guy that had nothing but a squash match last week.



I'm not blaming Jay White at all. He's the best talent in wrestling if you ask me. But I know no one outside the hardcore wrestling bubble knows dick or fuck about who he is. You can't keep promising these big things and then delivering Christian, or Kenta, or Jay White, or Big show, or Keith Lee. Eventually people are going to tell you to fuck off. They started off with 300-400k less than they usually do, and the first 40 minutes had Punk,, MJF, Mox and Bryan in it. I mean I don't know what else to tell you.


----------



## 3venflow

Punk vs. MJF has been an example of how to do a long-form feud properly. They built anticipation with the promos, didn't even make physical contact until a week before their first match, had a great match that seemed to elevate the younger guy some, and are going again on PPV in a big gimmick match. Unlike IC vs. Pinnacle (booked in reverse for some reason and might be more remembered if Blood & Guts + Stadium Stampede were the last two matches) and Kip/Miro vs. Best Friends, this has been a long-form storyline done right IMO. I'd be for more long-form feuds if wrestling bookers could pull them off properly. Nearly every great TV show ever is all about long-term storytelling presented in a way that keeps you watching. Austin vs. Taker seemed to go on forever in 98 and 99 but didn't get boring. Wrestling just doesn't have much imagination and creativity to keep storylines interesting for a long time - but I think Punk vs. MJF has been an exception to that.


----------



## Mister Sinister

The Cody news landed hard on the fans. The card was bad, yes, but the fans weren't tuning in to find out it was bad.


----------



## omaroo

All I will say is relying on big debuts or surprises will only get you so far. 

They really need to focus on quality storylines and angles but if you ask me I don't think they can do that and that is despite last 2 weeks being really good. 

Not just that they need to start building the potential stars into actual stars. You have guys like hobbs, Wardlow, MJF, starks, Darby to build around. Add guys like Miro and black and you got a great base to build on. 

Guys like sammy and jungle boy I don't see why they are being focused on. They are average imo to be classed as pillars.


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> Punk vs. MJF has been an example of how to do a long-form feud properly. They built anticipation with the promos, didn't even make physical contact until a week before their first match, had a great match that seemed to elevate the younger guy some, and are going again on PPV in a big gimmick match. Unlike IC vs. Pinnacle (booked in reverse for some reason and might be more remembered if Blood & Guts + Stadium Stampede were the last two matches) and Kip/Miro vs. Best Friends, this has been a long-form storyline done right IMO. I'd be for more long-form feuds if wrestling bookers could pull them off properly. Nearly every great TV show ever is all about long-term storytelling presented in a way that keeps you watching. Austin vs. Taker seemed to go on forever in 98 and 99 but didn't get boring. Wrestling just doesn't have much imagination and creativity to keep storylines interesting for a long time - but I think Punk vs. MJF has been an exception to that.



Yet the match itself did a bad number and the segment announcing the rematch did a bad number. 

It's good to you because you're a wrestling nerd who overanalyzes this stuff. That's fine. We're on a wrestling internet forum, we all are. But the numbers glare out that they lost quite a bit of buzz with the wait for the match. I mean the promo that started the thing has 4.2 million views on YouTube. The match did 900k. I mean the numbers are what they are.


----------



## holy

Seafort said:


> Danielson’s opponent is a JAG at this point. He might as well have been Mike Michaels or Johnny Jonathan. I don’t care if Danielson mentioned him previously, but he has absolutely no character. There is no reason to watch him, especially in a long form match.
> 
> AEW’s model is getting worrisome...based off of the one week sugar high of new signings and debuts versus the sustained character building of 2020. Like WCW, they’ll eventually run out of people to sign.
> 
> Where was Keith’s in ring interview announcing why he was there, why WWE was wrong in casting him aside? Put that into hour 1 and maybe you have some additional intrigue.


Pardon my stupidity, but what's a JAG? 🤣


----------



## Seafort

ProjectGargano said:


> I didn´t talked about that, you care if you want. I am just saying that Jay White cannot be the cause of this low rating, because he barely was on the show.


No, he’s not.

I wouldn’t discount some portion of the AEW fan base - a smallish portion - tapping out for now with news that one of the most visible and influential founders defected to the opposition.


----------



## Rankles75

holy said:


> Pardon my stupidity, but what's a JAG? 🤣


Just Another Guy.


----------



## DammitChrist

I mean, they're already providing quality storylines like CM Punk vs MJF, Jon Moxley vs Bryan Danielson, Britt Baker vs Thunder Rosa, Adam Page vs Adam Cole (recently), and Death Triangle vs House of Black.


----------



## Seafort

holy said:


> Pardon my stupidity, but what's a JAG? 🤣


It’s a college football term (I think). It stands for “Just A Guy”. Anyone can be a JAG absent character development and/or context over who they are.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Acknowledge him


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> Some of you just don’t want to see it. There’s nothing great about the product. Good promo. Good wrestling. But what people want is fireworks. Simply not enough fireworks in AEW.


damn this good show!


----------



## Cube2

Mr316 said:


> Not at all. Grand Slam kind of shows are not even good for TV in my opinion. What I want is more creativity that leads to great moments. Segments that actually stand out. Remember Austin driving the zamboni? Mcmahon’s limousine exploding? They need to create moments that stand out within their storylines.


i would love to see those things as well. But the guy that wrote that way, has been black balled from the business. So we are now left with very dull generic storylines and way to long matches every week.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Cube2 said:


> i would love to see those things as well. But the guy that wrote that way, has been black balled from the business. So we are now left with very dull generic storylines and way to long matches every week.


Poor Vince Russo never wrote wrestling again after September 1999. Sad.


----------



## Geeee

holy said:


> I'm not sure what one thing has to do with another. But to answer your question, if Shane or HHH showed up last week, which everyone on this planet knows that there is not even a 1% chance that will ever happen, then yes, I would tune in to watch weekly. I mean, who wouldn't?
> 
> But the fact is that Tony again promised a huge surprise last week, and the name that showed up was not the upto the mark of how he was promoting it. No one was saying it had to be a massive superstar - just someone that atleast casuals could identify with. Seems like a reasonable explanation for such a massive ratings drop to me.


Well, I guess my point is that 1 debut is not gonna be the difference between someone liking the show or not. If AEW debuted your favorite wrestler last week, it would probably would not have changed your opinion of the product much in the long run, since it still would be AEW at the end of the day, with Tony Khan still in charge, doing Tony Khan things.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

GNKenny said:


> Acknowledge him


*This might not be a troll:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494426932770971648*


----------



## Swindle

They were promised a big debut last week, it was Keith Lee. So, the eyeballs tuned out this week.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Looking at the quarters, much weaker start than normal. Otherwise seemed about what you'd expect. Danielson match down a good deal from Q1 but it was Q2 so that's to be expected. Q3 at least had some gain, and Q4 having largest gain of the show with Wardlow, and Adam Page/Cole is a good sign for those. Plus then the Inner Circle tag match ended up building on that which is great for that whole angle. 

That second hour though after Q5... main that looks rough. Martinez/Rosa sunk viewership and Darby/Sammy did really poorly. Not only a lower viewership but they actually lost from prior quarter. Seems really bizarre because they both have done well individually in the past (albeit maybe exaggerated at points), so this really should've been at least a gain, even if still on the lower side of things. In fact it's the first Q8 to not gain from Q7 since the move to TBS. Pretty crazy.


----------



## Joe Gill

TK should just sign 52 of the biggest names in wrestling to 1 day contracts. Have one of them debut every week...have a match...and then take off never to be seen again.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

The lead in is usually 1.1 to 1.2 M and it was only 900 K.

Ratings make no sense. One of the best shows after a really strong show last week.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Joe Gill said:


> TK should just sign 52 of the biggest names in wrestling to 1 day contracts. Have one of them debut every week...have a match...and then take off never to be seen again.


* I mean, he pretty much does that with the people he signs to multi year deals, so it wouldn't make much difference outside of to their pocket books.*


----------



## Outlaw91

RLT1981 said:


> I tried to tell you guys last week noone knew who the fuck Jay White was so hyping him up was laughable maybe now some of you will get a clue and see these clowns from new japan don't draw shit here in the states.


LOL yeah, Jay White the ”casual” audience killer...


----------



## yeahright2

And what´s the excuse this week?


----------



## fabi1982

DammitChrist said:


> I mean, they're already providing quality storylines like CM Punk vs MJF, Jon Moxley vs Bryan Danielson, Britt Baker vs Thunder Rosa, Adam Page vs Adam Cole (recently), and Death Triangle vs House of Black.


Bad thing is it seems they dont transition to people being interested to watch. These are mostly „hardcore fan fantasies“. Dont get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with this, it just doesnt translate to people being eager to watch.

Just check the TBBT lead ins, its dissapointing that a good rating is dependend on a good lead in by a show with basically no correlation to wrestling.


----------



## DammitChrist

yeahright2 said:


> And what´s the excuse this week?


Cody Rhodes is obviously behind this.

Fans already miss the guy


----------



## fabi1982

Maybe Cody took some of the Nielson boxes TK was hiding in his office, once he left AEW. No Nielson, no ratings?!


----------



## holy

Geeee said:


> Well, I guess my point is that 1 debut is not gonna be the difference between someone liking the show or not. If AEW debuted your favorite wrestler last week, it would probably would not have changed your opinion of the product much in the long run, since it still would be AEW at the end of the day, with Tony Khan still in charge, doing Tony Khan things.


I think it would depend on who showed up. If say, John Cena (one of my all-time favorites) showed up on Dynamite, I would absolutely watch atleast his segment every week, even if the segments sucked. But yes, the rest of the product (other than Cena) would still be "meh" for me.

The bigger issue is not necessarily who is debuting, but the manner in which they debut. Keith Lee's debut would've been much more effective if he just came out as a genuine surprise. There was no need for Tony Khan to start building all of this suspense for him. Keith is not a big star.

I wont mention the Jay White guy, since I have no clue who he is.

It was a similar thing last year with Christian: we all know he's a great talent, but he was dead on arrival because of Tony Khan hyping him to be on the level of a Punk or Lesnar signing.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Eddie Kingston returns and ratings go down the shitter, who would have guessed.


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> It was a blast.


Hopefully you put on a 7 star performance


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


> Hopefully you put on a 7 star performance


It would have been 10 stars if the orgy was in the Tokyo dome.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494414990085955586
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## elo

Most of television was down 20-30% on last Wednesday night in the demo, quite intriguing...0.31 for 3rd on cable is a low rating night across the board. The show didn't have the must watch live feel to it like last week and would indicate a casual audience does indeed exist with that large a drop in one week after a great rating - it is what it is.


----------



## Tell it like it is

That's it boys we lost, pack it up, abandoned ship! Anyways high ratings or not it's still more enjoyable than WWE.


----------



## Gn1212

Loving the meltdown. 🤣


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_WHqkCWQAQKDli.jpg


Show sold me on Revolution so I couldn't care less of what number it did. 
I'll let you all get depressed or celebrate the W, whichever camp you're in.


----------



## 3venflow

Last week they did their best numbers in both categories since September.

This week they did their worst numbers in both categories since December.

Swings and roundabouts. Next week they might put on a bang average show and do a million viewers and 0.42. Very hard to predict.


----------



## Aedubya

Above .85 = good


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

It's not hard to follow the simple formula the Attitude Era shows followed that has succeeded and worked EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. It's not hard to use a successful formula. 

- Have one huge story to continues all throughout the show like they used to on RAW with Austin/McMahon. It didn't take up the whole show but it was brought back to light multiple times. The last time AEW did something remotely similar was when Jericho was champion. Do it more. Why am I supposed to care about Hangman as your top guy when he's barely on the show? 

- Have about 5-7 matches on the card that go anywhere between 4-10 minutes. don't exceed 10 minutes of wrestling per match, worked in the Attitude Era it can work now. You can still put on good matches in a short period of time. 

- Take better advantage of backstage segments and vignettes to develop and create your talent's characters. Take time to give Sammy Guevara or Jungle Boy a character and build them up backstage. Hell you could use them to build up a debuting superstar instead of doing the surprise shit. 

It's not a hard formula to use, start using it and your shows will be better. Attitude Era formatted show never fails.


----------



## NascarStan

I like Dynamite but the show has gotten a bit formulaic and overly relying on hyping a debut for it only to be some midcard WWE guy.

Rewatching pre pandemic Dynamite and the shows were much more chaotic like WCW and WWF were in their prime and the ahow almost always ended with a hook to tune in next week. Now you can largely predict the product and knew exactly what will happen.


----------



## Randy Lahey

0.31 is a bad rating for a great show.


----------



## 3venflow

BBT lead-in numbers. Dynamite seemed to fall almost in perfect sync with it in terms of total viewership.


----------



## Geeee

AEW needs to debut Kaley Cuoco in Q1


----------



## Randy Lahey

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Looking at the quarters, much weaker start than normal. Otherwise seemed about what you'd expect. Danielson match down a good deal from Q1 but it was Q2 so that's to be expected. Q3 at least had some gain, and Q4 having largest gain of the show with Wardlow, and Adam Page/Cole is a good sign for those. Plus then the Inner Circle tag match ended up building on that which is great for that whole angle.
> 
> That second hour though after Q5... main that looks rough. Martinez/Rosa sunk viewership and Darby/Sammy did really poorly. Not only a lower viewership but they actually lost from prior quarter. Seems really bizarre because they both have done well individually in the past (albeit maybe exaggerated at points), so this really should've been at least a gain, even if still on the lower side of things. In fact it's the first Q8 to not gain from Q7 since the move to TBS. Pretty crazy.


Women’s wrestling just kills every rating. And people not wanting to watch a great Darby/Sammy match bc the women’s match before it sucks


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> It's not hard to follow the simple formula the Attitude Era shows followed that has succeeded and worked EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. It's not hard to use a successful formula.
> 
> - Have one huge story to continues all throughout the show like they used to on RAW with Austin/McMahon. It didn't take up the whole show but it was brought back to light multiple times. The last time AEW did something remotely similar was when Jericho was champion. Do it more. Why am I supposed to care about Hangman as your top guy when he's barely on the show?
> 
> - Have about 5-7 matches on the card that go anywhere between 4-10 minutes. don't exceed 10 minutes of wrestling per match, worked in the Attitude Era it can work now. You can still put on good matches in a short period of time.
> 
> - Take better advantage of backstage segments and vignettes to develop and create your talent's characters. Take time to give Sammy Guevara or Jungle Boy a character and build them up backstage. Hell you could use them to build up a debuting superstar instead of doing the surprise shit.
> 
> It's not a hard formula to use, start using it and your shows will be better. Attitude Era formatted show never fails.


Nah, a HUGE no to reducing match time.

Let the Attitude Era stay in the past. It ended over 20 years ago too.

That formula isn’t even guaranteed to perform much better anyway.


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> That formula isn’t even guaranteed to perform much better anyway.


I have no real opinion on it but it can't hurt to try.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, a HUGE no to reducing match time.
> 
> Let the Attitude Era stay in the past. It ended over 20 years ago too.
> 
> That formula isn’t even guaranteed to perform much better anyway.


Giving the Attitude Era formula a try wouldn't damage the show in any way, it'd be a welcome change from the boring formula they currently have. And who cares if the match time on TV isn't long? That's what PPVs are for, you can have the long matches there, TV matches aren't supposed to be long.

Attitude Era was the most successful period of wrestling in history for a reason.


----------



## Mr316

Attitude Era wasn’t a “formula”. It was simply great fucking television. AEW is a fucking borefest compared to the Attitude Era.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Giving the Attitude Era formula a try wouldn't damage the show in any way, it'd be a welcome change from the boring formula they currently have. And who cares if the match time on TV isn't long? That's what PPVs are for, you can have the long matches there, TV matches aren't supposed to be long.
> 
> Attitude Era was the most successful period of wrestling in history for a reason.


Nah, I’ll happily keep the lengthy TV matches that are top-quality like Sammy Guevara vs Darby Allin and Bryan Danielson vs Lee Moriarty over resorting to an outdated method/idea that occurred over 2 decades ago.

What worked in 1998 doesn’t necessarily mean that it’ll work in 2022 anyway.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Mr316 said:


> Attitude Era wasn’t a “formula”. It was simply great fucking television. AEW is a fucking borefest compared to the Attitude Era.


Exactly. Going back and watching WWF stuff from 2000 really makes you see how fucking dull and boring wrestling is today. Back then you'd have title changes happen randomly on a whim on TV, did they last all the time? No, but it was something DIFFERENT. That's what AEW needs, just anything that's fucking different.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, I’ll happily keep the lengthy TV matches that are top-quality like Sammy Guevara vs Darby Allin and Bryan Danielson vs Lee Moriarty over resorting to an outdated method/idea that occurred over 2 decades ago.
> 
> What worked in 1998 doesn’t necessarily mean that it’ll work in 2022 anyway.


You can still have top quality TV matches that go under 10 minutes, less is more, quality over quantity. Doesn't help that both storylines are a borefest, putting on barn burners doesn't salvage the storytelling being bad.


----------



## RapShepard

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> It's not hard to follow the simple formula the Attitude Era shows followed that has succeeded and worked EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. It's not hard to use a successful formula.
> 
> - Have one huge story to continues all throughout the show like they used to on RAW with Austin/McMahon. It didn't take up the whole show but it was brought back to light multiple times. The last time AEW did something remotely similar was when Jericho was champion. Do it more. Why am I supposed to care about Hangman as your top guy when he's barely on the show?
> 
> - Have about 5-7 matches on the card that go anywhere between 4-10 minutes. don't exceed 10 minutes of wrestling per match, worked in the Attitude Era it can work now. You can still put on good matches in a short period of time.
> 
> - Take better advantage of backstage segments and vignettes to develop and create your talent's characters. Take time to give Sammy Guevara or Jungle Boy a character and build them up backstage. Hell you could use them to build up a debuting superstar instead of doing the surprise shit.
> 
> It's not a hard formula to use, start using it and your shows will be better. Attitude Era formatted show never fails.


I don't know why there's such reluctance to build the show around the world champion. Despite what folk believe, you really do have to present somebody as thee top guy. All that "we'll all be top guys sharing equal time and importance" shit doesn't work.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

3venflow said:


> BBT lead-in numbers. Dynamite seemed to fall almost in perfect sync with it in terms of total viewership.
> 
> View attachment 116988


It’s crazy how the BBT even has over 1k viewers even if it’s the lowest since moving to TBS knowing that it is a rerun/repeat show 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

RapShepard said:


> I don't know why there's such reluctance to build the show around the world champion. Despite what folk believe, you really do have to present somebody as thee top guy. All that "we'll all be top guys sharing equal time and importance" shit doesn't work.


It's such a simple nuance to add to your show. Were there multiple top guys in the AE? Sure but the show was still always built around the World Title feud, AEW did that with Jericho/Cody and to a lesser extent Jericho/Moxley, why can't they do that now?


----------



## RapShepard

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> It's such a simple nuance to add to your show. Were there multiple top guys in the AE? Sure but the show was still always built around the World Title feud, AEW did that with Jericho/Cody and to a lesser extent Jericho/Moxley, why can't they do that now?


Idk maybe it's just because they came up different or they see fans rejected Cena and Reigns when the shows were being built around them and don't think that works.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Giving the Attitude Era formula a try wouldn't damage the show in any way, it'd be a welcome change from the boring formula they currently have. And who cares if the match time on TV isn't long? That's what PPVs are for, you can have the long matches there, TV matches aren't supposed to be long.
> 
> Attitude Era was the most successful period of wrestling in history for a reason.


*It should also be said that their quarterly PPV format is a failure. They blow off marquee matchups on television because they have too much fucking television time between PPVs. And when they don't blow them off, they have to pointlessly extend feuds, like MJF versus Punk, and kill all the heat for it.*


----------



## Cult03

AEW is like the student who can't get under the word limit and thinks that makes them smart. Not being able to be concise in your point isn't a sign of being better. If AEW (and other indie wrestlers) can't tell their story in 10 minutes on their weekly show they're not very good at their job. Long matches should be saved for PPV'S. AEW has them and they're exactly the same as their weekly show.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

3venflow said:


> BBT lead-in numbers. Dynamite seemed to fall almost in perfect sync with it in terms of total viewership.
> 
> View attachment 116988


Looking at this, overall viewership and quarter 1 comparisons, 1/19 was the big one that went against the normal trend. That was Moxley's return. Also last week's, which started with MJF's celebration following his match with Punk, and main evented by the Page/Archer World Title match. 

1/26 looks like the big "disappointment" looking at these. BBT had pretty big viewership. If Dynamite had followed what looks like the trend there, they could've seen 1.3-1.4 million for that first quarter. That was Cody/Sammy, with Cole/Cassidy in the main event for the Lights Out match. It's interesting because in the context of just the show Cody/Sammy absolutely carried the show, and they had a great second quarter too. Looking at these graphs though, it makes it look like there was some viewership potential missed.

1/12 is also interesting for total viewership as it went down from prior week where BBT went up. Had a decent Q1 start, but this show dipped big in viewership in the second half (which was main evented by Guevara and Daniel Garcia). 

Also look at the 3 weeks though where BBT had about 1.3 million viewers. 

1/19 - 1358 BBT vs. 1032 AEW (1218 Q1)
2/2 - 1329 BBT vs. 954 AEW (1096 Q1)
2/9 - 1339 BBT vs. 1129 AEW (1249 Q1)

Looking at these, 2/2 is the disappointing one as they didn't get the viewership from BBT like the other 2 weeks. Started with Moxley/Yuta, and main evented by Punk/MJF. The following week though 2/9 looks to just be the biggest success so far, which started following up on Punk/MJF, with the World Title main event. I'll note that during this show they utilized the first segment to set up a match later on with the mystery partner... plus they did hype up a debut so there was a bit that went into this show.

Interesting stuff how adding some more context/numbers can make some weeks look better/worse than they did on their own.


----------



## DammitChrist

Cult03 said:


> AEW is like the student who can't get under the word limit and thinks that makes them smart. Not being able to be concise in your point isn't a sign of being better. If AEW (and other indie wrestlers) can't tell their story in 10 minutes on their weekly show they're not very good at their job. Long matches should be saved for PPV'S. AEW has them and they're exactly the same as their weekly show.


Nah, let’s keep the lengthy TV matches since plenty of wrestling fans enjoy them.


----------



## Cult03

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, let’s keep the lengthy TV matches since plenty of wrestling fans enjoy them.


Nah, how come you never actually add any proof behind your statements? We get it, 800k fans love what AEW does. But there’s millions of fans out there who don’t. It needs to find a better balance to impress the IWC and the rest of the world of wrestling. Then they’ll truely be a challenge for WWE


----------



## DammitChrist

Cult03 said:


> Nah, how come you never actually add any proof behind your statements? We get it, 800k fans love what AEW does. But there’s millions of fans out there who don’t. It needs to find a better balance to impress the IWC and the rest of the world of wrestling. Then they’ll truely be a challenge for WWE


They should just continue what they’re doing since they managed to hit over 1 million TV views multiple times on their own without having to borrow any ideas here, without relying much on ‘sports entertainment’ nonsense, and without resorting to some outdated method from a bygone era.


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


> Idk maybe it's just because they came up different or they see fans rejected Cena and Reigns when the shows were being built around them and don't think that works.


Two things can be true. You can build a show around your top title holder and still have longer matches that feature other talents. The attitude era did a lot of things right, but the industry can evolve to take elements of the past and add news styles and tastes.


----------



## Cult03

DammitChrist said:


> They should just continue what they’re doing since they managed to hit over 1 million TV views multiple times on their own without having to borrow any ideas here, without relying much on ‘sports entertainment’ nonsense, and without resorting to some outdated method from a bygone era.


Not sports entertainment. Pro wrestling. Every pro wrestling company in existence has understood storyline’s should be the priority as they aid the match. Without it you have men flipping in a ring. It’s not pro wrestling without storyline’s, in ring storytelling, selling and psychology.

By the way, the other companies “formula” still gets more viewers and there’s a bunch who gave up on it that AEW should be trying to win over. They’re niche, not mainstream. Not even close


----------



## RapShepard

Prized Fighter said:


> Two things can be true. You can build a show around your top title holder and still have longer matches that feature other talents. The attitude era did a lot of things right, but the industry can evolve to take elements of the past and add news styles and tastes.


True, finding that good match length is probably easier on paper than practice. But the match lengths are the easiest part of the format to play with you know.


----------



## cai1981

Erik. said:


> The show stayed over a million after the debuts though...
> 
> So wheres your logic?


1.1M last week....869k this week! The nosedive was steeper than I predicted!


----------



## zkorejo

DammitChrist said:


> Cody Rhodes is obviously behind this.
> 
> Fans already miss the guy


I know you're joking but the whole Cody leaving AEW has left a bad taste in my mouth. The show was pretty good but for some reason I just didn't enjoy it as much. 

Not saying that's the reason for low ratings but who knows.


----------



## DammitChrist

zkorejo said:


> I know you're joking but the whole Cody leaving AEW has left a bad taste in my mouth. The show was pretty good but for some reason I just didn't enjoy it as much.
> 
> Not saying that's the reason for low ratings but who knows.


Yea, I have that sad feeling too because I loved seeing Cody Rhodes on AEW. 

It feels really weird without him around anymore.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*After another embarrassing ratings drop following a "MAJOR DEBUT!!!!", the propaganda begins:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494500109480042498*


----------



## NascarStan

The Legit Lioness said:


> *After another embarrassing ratings drop following a "MAJOR DEBUT!!!!", the propaganda begins:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494500109480042498*


It's been a "process" for 3 years now. Bischoff a year from the first Nitro was beating Raw handily in the ratings every week but AEW can't even get a million every week.

No more excuses, time to face facts that there's something in AEW that needs to.be fundamentally changed if they are to truly start beating Raw and taking the next step


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

NascarStan said:


> It's been a "process" for 3 years now. Bischoff a year from the first Nitro was beating Raw handily in the ratings every week but AEW can't even get a million every week.
> 
> No more excuses, time to face facts that there's something in AEW that needs to.be fundamentally changed if they are to truly start beating Raw and taking the next step


*Thanks for reminding me about this.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494438934281084932*


----------



## DammitChrist

Honestly, they did just about everything right last night since this week's Dynamite episode seems to be widely considered to be one of their best ones so far this year. 

They also gave a great balance of good wrestling/workrate, compelling segments, and engaging storylines that got advanced further too.

Unfortunately though, a great episode won't guarantee a great rating for THAT given week.

However, I do expect next week's rating to increase due to the good word about this week's episode.


----------



## Geeee

The Legit Lioness said:


> *After another embarrassing ratings drop following a "MAJOR DEBUT!!!!", the propaganda begins:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494500109480042498*


I feel like you are overreacting to this tweet. To me this comes off as Dustin confirming that he is staying with AEW, since I'm sure he is getting asked a lot about it with Cody's departure.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Thanks for reminding me about this.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494438934281084932*


Since this comment:

Times beaten RAW in the demo: once

Times beaten RAW in the viewership: none 

Remember the days after the likes of Punk, Danielson and Cole had signed and so many AEW fans were getting ahead of themselves going "AEW is the home professional wrestling now!! The evil Fed is fucked!!!"

How's that working out for you? They're still getting the same ratings they've gotten for nearly the last 2 and a half years. they have the talent there to create a true alternative and something exciting yet Tony Khan just doesn't know how to consistently book a good wrestling show.


----------



## DUD

cai1981 said:


> 1.1M last week....869k this week! The nosedive was steeper than I predicted!


I can't say I'm surprised to be honest. 

This is the dangers of overpromising a surprise and underdelivering.


----------



## Wynter

Its honestly shocking to see how low the bar has settled. To go from believing Daniel Bryan and PUNK alone would be the linchpins in bringing AEW's viewership/ratings to new heights. To now accepting getting damn near the same viewership before the likes of Cole, Bryan, Punk etc arrived is wild lol They were drawing similar numbers with guys like Darby was placed in an important singles roles.

I honestly didnt expect we'd get to the point AEW would mostly see high 900ks/1 million+ with a strong lead in like BBT carrying the weight or hyped up special episodes/debuts to bring in curious eyes. The problem is the curiosity seems to only last a week. It really did look promising at first when Bryan/Punk first arrived and they were actually flirting with 1.3s. Now hitting a million is a really good week.

It'll be interesting to see what actually brings them a consistent million later on. They cant always cater to their hardcore fanbase forever(if they want actual notable growth i mean) because its already baked in. The hardcores who love the show have already bought in.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Forum Dud said:


> I can't say I'm surprised to be honest.
> 
> This is the dangers of overpromising a surprise and underdelivering.


*"CODY TOOK THE FANS WITH HIM!" was right there 😂*


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Geeee said:


> I feel like you are overreacting to this tweet. To me this comes off as Dustin confirming that he is staying with AEW, since I'm sure he is getting asked a lot about it with Cody's departure.


*He already did that two days ago right after the news dropped. This is obviously a response to the ratings plummeting.*


----------



## DUD

The Legit Lioness said:


> *"CODY TOOK THE FANS WITH HIM!" was right there 😂*


I think people are used to Cody being off and on TV at this point 😂.


----------



## Not Lying

Meh ratings. This just proves again that there's much more going on with these ratings than whatever the product is.


----------



## Not Lying

Wynter said:


> Its honestly shocking to see how low the bar has settled. To go from believing Daniel Bryan and PUNK alone would be the linchpins in bringing AEW's viewership/ratings to new heights. To now accepting getting damn near the same viewership before the likes of Cole, Bryan, Punk etc arrived is wild lol They were drawing similar numbers with guys like Darby was placed in an important singles roles.
> 
> I honestly didnt expect we'd get to the point AEW would mostly see high 900ks/1 million+ with a strong lead in like BBT carrying the weight or hyped up special episodes/debuts to bring in curious eyes. The problem is the curiosity seems to only last a week. It really did look promising at first when Bryan/Punk first arrived and they were actually flirting with 1.3s. Now hitting a million is a really good week.
> 
> It'll be interesting to see what actually brings them a consistent million later on. They cant always cater to their hardcore fanbase forever(if they want actual notable growth i mean) because its already baked in. The hardcores who love the show have already bought in.


Some you people need to stop comparing high-peaks to averages. They used to max out at at these 850Ks-900Ks, now they bottom out on it, people used to say they were drawing 700K (losing half their audience BS), they are getting more viewers vs last year by double digits while TV is down by near double digits. That's impressive. 

Ya'll really insane for claiming shit like the bottoms now are the norm and that all these signings didn't have an effect, or, saying that AEW is actually doing a bad job with storylines. Which isn't true at all. There's up and lows, and the fact TBBT had such an impact gives more proof of it's not just product quality.


----------



## just_one

serious question , would AEW win anything to moving to monday nights?

The hardcore base is there already so we got around 800k that already see it.

im just sad they cant grow past 1M because the product is so much fresh than wwe.


----------



## Randy Lahey

NascarStan said:


> It's been a "process" for 3 years now. Bischoff a year from the first Nitro was beating Raw handily in the ratings every week but AEW can't even get a million every week.
> 
> No more excuses, time to face facts that there's something in AEW that needs to.be fundamentally changed if they are to truly start beating Raw and taking the next step


Another alt account. You last posted in 2019 till today lol.


----------



## Randy Lahey

just_one said:


> serious question , would AEW win anything to moving to monday nights?
> 
> The hardcore base is there already so we got around 800k that already see it.
> 
> im just sad they cant grow past 1M because the product is so much fresh than wwe.


They already beat Raw consistently in males ages 18-49.

Where they lose is with adults 50+, and females. 

AEW isn’t going to convince 50+ year olds to watch them over Raw. Like ever. Raw will gradually lose viewers but 50+ year olds won’t all the sudden start watching AEW.

Raw’s 600k lead in overall viewers is mostly 50+. Those people can’t have their minds changed which is why as advertisers don’t care about them


----------



## just_one

Randy Lahey said:


> Another alt account. You last posted in 2019 till today lol.


even if its an alt account he´s not entirely wrong.

its been 3 years and they have yet to have a steady 1M with big names. i love AEW but something must be improved.


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> BBT lead-in numbers. Dynamite seemed to fall almost in perfect sync with it in terms of total viewership.
> 
> View attachment 116988


Can you give me an explanation on why TBBT doesnt appear in the charts, with nearly the same demo rating? I see other programming at 7pm or earlier being shown?


----------



## Erik.

just_one said:


> even if its an alt account he´s not entirely wrong.
> 
> its been 3 years and they have yet to have a steady 1M with big names. i love AEW but something must be improved.


Define steady. 

Last Year before the west coast issue they had 11 of 13 weeks between July and October that hit over a million consistently.

That's just over 3 months worth of data.


----------



## Not Lying

fabi1982 said:


> Can you give me an explanation on why TBBT doesnt appear in the charts, with nearly the same demo rating? I see other programming at 7pm or earlier being shown?


Because it's probably a half an hour show, while AEW is 2h. So you divide TBBT by 4. 

I never understood though why RAW gets all 3hs on the chart, while AEW's 2h are merged.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> Some you people need to stop comparing high-peaks to averages. They used to max out at at these 850Ks-900Ks, now they bottom out on it, people used to say they were drawing 700K (losing half their audience BS), they are getting more viewers vs last year by double digits while TV is down by near double digits. That's impressive.
> 
> Ya'll really insane for claiming shit like the bottoms now are the norm and that all these signings didn't have an effect, or, saying that AEW is actually doing a bad job with storylines. Which isn't true at all. There's up and lows, and the fact TBBT had such an impact gives more proof of it's not just product quality.


*They were hitting 1.1 mil during summer of Britt, before the actually big signings*.


----------



## Teemu™

Cult03 said:


> Not sports entertainment. Pro wrestling. Every pro wrestling company in existence has understood storyline’s should be the priority as they aid the match. Without it you have men flipping in a ring. It’s not pro wrestling without storyline’s, in ring storytelling, selling and psychology.
> 
> By the way, the other companies “formula” still gets more viewers and there’s a bunch who gave up on it that AEW should be trying to win over. They’re niche, not mainstream. Not even close


I understand what you're saying, and we're on the same side, but your statement isn't 100% accurate. For instance, the early years of RoH were damn close to purely wrestling focused. The business model was to sell DVDs, so the only thing they did was coming up with indy dream matches. There weren't really angles involved. The idea was just to pit Spanky against The American Dragon, hoping that word of mouth would cause people to purchase the DVDs due to a five star match. "Hey, did you see the Danielson vs. Spanky match? It was fucking fire, you gotta check it out!"

That was basically the business model.

That, then, of course, gave birth to this idea that all that matters is the match, and over the years, the mentality started to creep its way to the mainstream companies, as well.


----------



## cai1981

The Definition of Technician said:


> Some you people need to stop comparing high-peaks to averages. They used to max out at at these 850Ks-900Ks, now they bottom out on it, people used to say they were drawing 700K (losing half their audience BS), they are getting more viewers vs last year by double digits while TV is down by near double digits. That's impressive.
> 
> Ya'll really insane for claiming shit like the bottoms now are the norm and that all these signings didn't have an effect, or, saying that AEW is actually doing a bad job with storylines. Which isn't true at all. There's up and lows, and the fact TBBT had such an impact gives more proof of it's not just product quality.


You forgot that they had a bump and were doing 1M consistently after NXT moved to Tuesdays. TNT had an immediate replay of Dynamite after so some watched NXT live and Dynamite after (or just DVR'ed). So, 1M became the real number after NXT moved.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Can you give me an explanation on why TBBT doesnt appear in the charts, with nearly the same demo rating? I see other programming at 7pm or earlier being shown?


no reruns appear on the charts on any channel

its always only 'original programming'

in theory, there are a LOT of programs that will be charting above AEW and WWE - but we never see them


----------



## validreasoning

just_one said:


> serious question , would AEW win anything to moving to monday nights?
> 
> The hardcore base is there already so we got around 800k that already see it.
> 
> im just sad they cant grow past 1M because the product is so much fresh than wwe.


Monday night would be a terrible move. Its the most competitive night on TV, aside from direct competition with Raw you have NFL for five months of the year, college championship football game in January, college championship basketball game in April, huge shows on network TV and numerous national holidays also fall on Monday every year which kill viewership


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> Because it's probably a half an hour show, while AEW is 2h. So you divide TBBT by 4.
> 
> I never understood though why RAW gets all 3hs on the chart, while AEW's 2h are merged.


No I´ve seen half hour shows, even the Brandi and Cody show was, so this cant be it. But yeah always struggle to see the comparability like you wrote and thanks for the input, but I think LICC is right with his suggestion of reruns.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no reruns appear on the charts on any channel
> 
> its always only 'original programming'
> 
> in theory, there are a LOT of programs that will be charting above AEW and WWE - but we never see them


Ah ok that could be it, I was always assuming the cable stuff has reruns in as well, because the broadcast numbers on showbuzz show rerun numbers. But yeah, it says "original" so probably the reason, thanks musti


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> It's not hard to follow the simple formula the Attitude Era shows followed that has succeeded and worked EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. It's not hard to use a successful formula.
> 
> - Have one huge story to continues all throughout the show like they used to on RAW with Austin/McMahon. It didn't tak OPe up the whole show but it was brought back to light multiple times. The last time AEW did something remotely similar was when Jericho was champion. Do it more. Why am I supposed to care about Hangman as your top guy when he's barely on the show?
> 
> - Have about 5-7 matches on the card that go anywhere between 4-10 minutes. don't exceed 10 minutes of wrestling per match, worked in the Attitude Era it can work now. You can still put on good matches in a short period of time.
> 
> - Take better advantage of backstage segments and vignettes to develop and create your talent's characters. Take time to give Sammy Guevara or Jungle Boy a character and build them up backstage. Hell you could use them to build up a debuting superstar instead of doing the surprise shit.
> 
> It's not a hard formula to use, start using it and your shows will be better. Attitude Era formatted show never fails.


Personal issues = money. That's just wrestling. None of what you listed is an "Attitude era formula". AE was just the 90s fed version of stuff like Memphis and Mid South.

I agree with you on most of this post, I just felt like being a pretentious twat.

AEW has severely lacked in the character department though. Part of that is their ridiculous roster size. Babyfaces you're pushing need mic time basically every week. You could shave a minute off every match and have enough time for a quick Jungle Boy vignette etc


----------



## Jaxon

wow that is a big drop to be fair and is the main reason people should just enjoy the show because they could put a great show out but people might not watch live, a bad show and people will watch, 

i would be worried about the money spent on all the people coming in though and still not getting bigger numbers than before. anyway it will go up next week and ill be back to read everyone saying the same reasons/excuses.


----------



## Hitman1987

AEW viewership has peaked.

No more Punk/Bryan level signings left out there and their most interesting story (Cody heel turn) just fucked off to their rival.

Hard to see where they go from here to make things better.


----------



## Rankles75

They usually seem to bounce back pretty quickly after a bad week. Another couple of weeks with similar numbers, then they should be concerned.


----------



## thorn123

Dead like me, Eureka, Firefly, suburbagory, Hell on Wheels, Deadwood and even way back to Star Trek TOS

Great shows that cannot find an audience for some reason or another.

AEW fits into this category. There is not much more they can do sans hiring the rock. AEW has been great, especially recently.

I truly believe the lapsed fan are not giving it a fair go.


----------



## Teemu™

I've been in the IWC now for two decades. And the one constant that has been true for the whole time, all throughout, has been that what the IWC likes, doesn't draw. This isn't even me trolling, this is out of character. Whenever the IWC feels a show was really good, an angle was really good, a match was really good, whatever it is, it never ends up drawing - often quite the opposite; it bombs at the box office.

I think it's just down to the fact that the IWC simply has such a different taste compared to the mainstream audience at large. What we like as hardcore wrestling fans just doesn't translate to the normal person.

The past few Dynamites have been good, this past episode being the best of them, but I've also watched wrestling my whole life, so I watch it through different eyes.

This extends beyond wrestling, too. As a hardcore Twin Peaks fan, I'm familiar with this. I was mesmerized by Twin Peaks The Return, but it kept losing viewers all the time. And it makes sense, too. It just wasn't mainstream entertainment; it was weird, it was odd, it was bizarre, and it was artistic, requiring a lot from the viewer. I eat that shit up, but it'll never succeed in the mainstream.

In entertainment, there's always been the stuff that is actually good and artistically satisfying, and then the stuff that actually draws money - and these things are rarely mutually inclusive, sometimes they are, but not often.


----------



## NascarStan

Randy Lahey said:


> Another alt account. You last posted in 2019 till today lol.


Damn you really exposed me, though if you did go through my post history you would notice I publicly admit this is a alt and requested the account merged because I forgot my password

So good job Sherlock 👏👏👏


----------



## Teemu™

I'll add to my previous post. Flair vs. Steamboat from Clash of the Champions is one of my absolute favorite matches. I just love every second of it, and when I first wanted to become a wrestler as a kid, I had the whole match memorized and analyzed lol. It's one of the 60 minute matches that has a very high replayability factor for me, among some others such as Joe vs. Punk II.

But I can't name you a single friend I have that I could show the match to and have them enjoy it, and become a fan of wrestling. They'd find it too long, too boring. This is a very niche form of entertainment, and it simply does not appeal to your average joe.

It's kinda like how my friend is really into golf. Plays golf at a high level. He's tried to show me some golf stuff, explaining how amazing whatever the fuck is, but I can't get into it because I'm not already a fan, so I have no idea what's going on. So it's just boring. I would need to already be a fan, and then I could appreciate it.

Drawing those people into becoming those fans in the first place - now that's the tricky part, and I don't think wrestling has really figured that out since, I dunno, 2002.


----------



## RoganJosh

NascarStan said:


> Damn you really exposed me, though if you did go through my post history you would notice I publicly admit this is a alt and requested the account merged because I forgot my password
> 
> So good job Sherlock 👏👏👏


Lol too many detectives on here.


----------



## Garty

It doesn't matter how good a Dynamite is after the fact. Once it's over, it's over. The ratings will decide if it was a good show or not. We can all have our opinions about Dynamite on any Wednesday night, but the ratings don't necessarily reflect those opinions. Maybe the next week, through word of mouth, you'll get a potential increase, but then if that show wasn't as good, but had a higher rating, what type of conclusion can you come away with? A good show=a bad rating and a bad show=a good rating? There's no rhyme or reason.

There are many ways to watch traditional TV and just as many shows, programs, sports, events, etc. to watch during those key prime-time hours, so in my opinion, it's just whatever that person feels like watching, will watch whatever they feel like watching. On the other hand, you also have the diehards who watch AEW religiously (which has been approximated to be between 800,000 - 900,000 viewers each week), so you're always going to have that base no matter what and anything above that, should be considered a bonus for the week. Keep them interested and you may have them return the following week, deciding not to watch whatever else is on.


----------



## Kishido

Do not worry. When Bray comes in they will be above 1 million again... For 2 weeks before the next one will be introduced... And so on 

Seriously they have CM Punk and Bryan... No bigger names will join them. They simply need to get their shit together and focus on the stars they have... And they have at least 4... 5 with Omega to calm down Meltzer 

No one gives a shit about the rest that much. No matter how awesome they are in the ring.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

How can this be? They just signed one of the biggest free agents of ALL TIME and have temporarily brought in DA SWITCHBLADE! 😂





just_one said:


> serious question , would AEW win anything to moving to monday nights?
> 
> The hardcore base is there already so we got around 800k that already see it.
> 
> im just sad they cant grow past 1M because the product is so much fresh than wwe.




Moving to Mondays would be a disaster. Especially during MNF.


----------



## Brodus Clay

Sucks was one of the best dynamites.


----------



## fabi1982

Teemu™ said:


> I'll add to my previous post. Flair vs. Steamboat from Clash of the Champions is one of my absolute favorite matches. I just love every second of it, and when I first wanted to become a wrestler as a kid, I had the whole match memorized and analyzed lol. It's one of the 60 minute matches that has a very high replayability factor for me, among some others such as Joe vs. Punk II.
> 
> But I can't name you a single friend I have that I could show the match to and have them enjoy it, and become a fan of wrestling. They'd find it too long, too boring. This is a very niche form of entertainment, and it simply does not appeal to your average joe.
> 
> It's kinda like how my friend is really into golf. Plays golf at a high level. He's tried to show me some golf stuff, explaining how amazing whatever the fuck is, but I can't get into it because I'm not already a fan, so I have no idea what's going on. So it's just boring. I would need to already be a fan, and then I could appreciate it.
> 
> Drawing those people into becoming those fans in the first place - now that's the tricky part, and I don't think wrestling has really figured that out since, I dunno, 2002.


You sir, make a lot of sense.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Tony Khan STILL doesn't get it. The clown is still running to radio stations to announce his next big announcement that will be announced next week.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Kishido said:


> Do not worry. When Bray comes in they will be above 1 million again... For 2 weeks before the next one will be introduced... And so on
> 
> Seriously they have CM Punk and Bryan... No bigger names will join them. They simply need to get their shit together and focus on the stars they have... And they have at least 4... 5 with Omega to calm down Meltzer
> 
> No one gives a shit about the rest that much. No matter how awesome they are in the ring.


They already are focusing on their top stars.

They prominently showcased Adam Page, Adam Cole, CM Punk, MJF, Jon Moxley, Bryan Danielson, Sammy Guevara, Darby Allin, Britt Baker, and Thunder Rosa on just this week ALONE.

They're already doing just about everything good quality-wise.


----------



## La Parka

thorn123 said:


> Dead like me, Eureka, Firefly, suburbagory, Hell on Wheels, Deadwood and even way back to Star Trek TOS
> 
> Great shows that cannot find an audience for some reason or another.
> 
> AEW fits into this category. There is not much more they can do sans hiring the rock. AEW has been great, especially recently.
> 
> I truly believe the lapsed fan are not giving it a fair go.


People have given it a go.

AEW markets it self to the hardcore internet smark. If that’s your thing, then you’re happy but every other wrestling fan is watching because they’re already a wrestling fan. AEW has done very little to bring in people who stopped watching wrestling / never watched wrestling. 

It’s fine and worked for TNA for sometime but let’s not pretend that AEW is offering this amazing product that people just haven’t given a chance to. Millions tuned into CM Punks debut and they were immediately ran off. Personally I think it’s fairly difficult to be a casual AEW fan. I would personally classify myself as a hardcore because I watch weekly and talk about it on forums but even a lot of AEW references go over my head, a casual who’s only watched WWE most be more confused than JR.


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> People have given it a go.
> 
> AEW markets it self to the hardcore internet smark. If that’s your thing, then you’re happy but every other wrestling fan is watching because they’re already a wrestling fan. AEW has done very little to bring in people who stopped watching wrestling / never watched wrestling.
> 
> It’s fine and worked for TNA for sometime but let’s not pretend that AEW is offering this amazing product that people just haven’t given a chance to. Millions tuned into CM Punks debut and they were immediately ran off. Personally I think it’s fairly difficult to be a casual AEW fan. I would personally classify myself as a hardcore because I watch weekly and talk about it on forums but even a lot of AEW references go over my head, a casual who’s only watched WWE most be more confused than JR.


I know you're making a fair point here, but you could ask me in case you want to figure out some AEW references that you previously missed the first time.

I don't mind. I won't hesitate


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Soul Rex said:


> Didn't they spend like a lot on that video game? Revenue will obviously increase, but Khan is spending way more money than that


 But revenue isn't profit. What is their expenses?


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

I don't think even the hardcores care about one specific wrestler beating another.


validreasoning said:


> Monday night would be a terrible move. Its the most competitive night on TV, aside from direct competition with Raw you have NFL for five months of the year, college championship football game in January, college championship basketball game in April, huge shows on network TV and numerous national holidays also fall on Monday every year which kill viewership


This is why anyone who compares Dynamite and Raw ratings in the rare occasion when Dynamite beats them in the "key demo" is a complete idiot.

Mainly talking about the brain dead wrestling journalists and wrestling YouTube channels but unfortunately a lot of fans fall for that spin.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

MonkasaurusRex said:


> But revenue isn't profit. What is their expenses?


*They're definitely in the red.*


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Lapsed fans aren't coming back. It's not that they aren't giving the show a fair chance it's that they don't watch wrestling at all anymore. CM Punk playing his hits or Bryan Danielson wrestling for an hour aren't going to bring back people that have moved on from wrestling. It's silly to think that they would.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

The Legit Lioness said:


> *They're definitely in the red.*


I assumed as much. That's why wrestlenomics talking about revenue without context is very misleading.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

MonkasaurusRex said:


> I assumed as much. That's why wrestlenomics talking about revenue without context is very misleading.


*He has no problem using the word PROFITS when bitching about WWE working with Saudi Arabia though. That's the only thing that sucks about Thurston. He's obviously biased towards AEW and he doesn't even make the quarterly ratings charts for WWE.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *They're definitely in the red.*


DM me the financials statements please

i want to see how much that Cody entrance tunnel costs


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

The Legit Lioness said:


> *He has no problem using the word PROFITS when bitching about WWE working with Saudi Arabia though. That's the only thing that sucks about Thurston. He's obviously biased towards AEW and he doesn't even make the quarterly ratings charts for WWE.*


He knows where his bread is buttered.


----------



## One Shed

The Definition of Technician said:


> Because it's probably a half an hour show, while AEW is 2h. So you divide TBBT by 4.
> 
> I never understood though why RAW gets all 3hs on the chart, while AEW's 2h are merged.


WWE started doing this in the 90s specifically to show multiple shows in the top rated shows. It was why hour 1 of RAW was RAW and hour 2 was The War Zone in the 90s.


----------



## 3venflow

They've sold 5,213 tickets for next week's Dynamite in Bridgeport, CT, 80% of those currently available. Current average for Dynamite since crowds returned is 6,120 (Grand Slam at around 20k still raises that average), though they haven't done over 6k since the Newark show about seven weeks ago and seem to be sticking to the 5-6k type facilities at the moment.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

AEW is most certainly in a rut at the moment. More casual viewers will probably get turned off by Tony’s constant promises of a big announcement and talking about hot free agents, that turn out to be midcarders that quickly get transitioned to the B Show. Adam Page isn’t doing it as champion and it’s laughable that the current alternative to be champion is Adam Cole. Playing hot potato with the TNT title just for Cody to leave right after dropping it certainly didn’t help Guevara out. I’m probably not the only fan that is quickly losing interest in the MJF/Punk feud after it started hot. I don’t see that much interest even on this forum over the Inner Circle conflict.

Khan definitely needs to change shit up.


----------



## shandcraig

Hotdiggity11 said:


> AEW is most certainly in a rut at the moment. More casual viewers will probably get turned off by Tony’s constant promises of a big announcement and talking about hot free agents, that turn out to be midcarders that quickly get transitioned to the B Show. Adam Page isn’t doing it as champion and it’s laughable that the current alternative to be champion is Adam Cole. Playing hot potato with the TNT title just for Cody to leave right after dropping it certainly didn’t help Guevara out. I’m probably not the only fan that is quickly losing interest in the MJF/Punk feud after it started hot. I don’t see that much interest even on this forum over the Inner Circle conflict.
> 
> Khan definitely needs to change shit up.



He's not a creative or a booker, so until he hires people to do this job aew is not going to change.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Hotdiggity11 said:


> AEW is most certainly in a rut at the moment. More casual viewers will probably get turned off by Tony’s constant promises of a big announcement and talking about hot free agents, that turn out to be midcarders that quickly get transitioned to the B Show. Adam Page isn’t doing it as champion and it’s laughable that the current alternative to be champion is Adam Cole. Playing hot potato with the TNT title just for Cody to leave right after dropping it certainly didn’t help Guevara out. I’m probably not the only fan that is quickly losing interest in the MJF/Punk feud after it started hot. I don’t see that much interest even on this forum over the Inner Circle conflict.
> 
> Khan definitely needs to change shit up.


Great post and I agree


----------



## thorn123

La Parka said:


> People have given it a go.
> 
> AEW markets it self to the hardcore internet smark. If that’s your thing, then you’re happy but every other wrestling fan is watching because they’re already a wrestling fan. AEW has done very little to bring in people who stopped watching wrestling / never watched wrestling.
> 
> It’s fine and worked for TNA for sometime but let’s not pretend that AEW is offering this amazing product that people just haven’t given a chance to. Millions tuned into CM Punks debut and they were immediately ran off. Personally I think it’s fairly difficult to be a casual AEW fan. I would personally classify myself as a hardcore because I watch weekly and talk about it on forums but even a lot of AEW references go over my head, a casual who’s only watched WWE most be more confused than JR.


Masses of fans have only watched when there was a megastar. Hulk was as well known as Stallone, Madonna or Eddie murphy In the 80s. Austin and Hollywood Hogan were mega stars that bought in the casuals in the 90s. And then we have the rock. I stand by my opinion that there is no booking by AEW that can bring in the casuals. Only a mega star like the rock can bring those viewers in.

The only reason the fed is holding onto some viewers is habit and nostalgia.

I do agree AEW does appease the internet smark. Some of the comments and indie wrestlers go over my head too. But the majority of the programming is extremely entertaining and I still think people havent given it a fair go. Also, I don’t know about the rest of the world, but in Australia, hardly anyone has heard of AEW. (My mate in Denver who was an 80s child was a hulkamaniac and is now into UFC. He hadn’t heard of AEW either)


----------



## thorn123

Hotdiggity11 said:


> AEW is most certainly in a rut at the moment. More casual viewers will probably get turned off by Tony’s constant promises of a big announcement and talking about hot free agents, that turn out to be midcarders that quickly get transitioned to the B Show. Adam Page isn’t doing it as champion and it’s laughable that the current alternative to be champion is Adam Cole. Playing hot potato with the TNT title just for Cody to leave right after dropping it certainly didn’t help Guevara out. I’m probably not the only fan that is quickly losing interest in the MJF/Punk feud after it started hot. I don’t see that much interest even on this forum over the Inner Circle conflict.
> 
> Khan definitely needs to change shit up.


Opinions are funny things eh….

Question - have you watched since the start of AEW? I would argue the last six weeks has been it’s best ever - and that is with my favourite wrestler (omega) not in the picture.

Thats the thing with opinions and changing things up. You might bring in some casuals, but you might alienate the regulars.


----------



## Zapato

It’s a tough one. Things have improved with a cohesive vision and one person taking the sole reigns compared to early AEW. I still think back to when you’d watch a show and you’d literally have segments where they did the exact same thing two or three times in a row and it seemed like no one spoke to one another and QT was just flinging it all together like a stage production from primary school. Jericho doing his random stuff, the Bucks and Omega, Codyverse etc etc. Recent times it has much improved on that front.

But there is that issue when you have one person fronting everything, _cough_ Vince. Tony is pleasing that fanbase he has, the diehards but isn’t expanding beyond that. Some experienced heads in to help him along the way is that next step I think. At least someone to come in and say, look stop hiring and hyping for a cheap pop and then discarding; you have some gems here so build them and people will get drawn in to see where it all goes. To his credit Tony has taken the reigns and stopped the chaos almost of the early years, but now it’s all getting settled I think he does need that voice/those voices in. And unlike Vince, Tony seems outside looking in willing to listen (I mean the early days it was like the insane ruled the asylum, everyone and everyone doing what they wanted even if it made no sense). I could be wrong though, Tony may be loving living out real life GM Mode to ease off. And that will be the blight of growing. And there will come a point like Haitch with NXT where the Dad with all the money walks up one day and clicks, or is told, look how much money you are losing/is being left on the table?

But they have solid ratings, are still young as a company and will get a big new tv deal. So can you really be too critical at this point?


----------



## DammitChrist

thorn123 said:


> Opinions are funny things eh….
> 
> Question - have you watched since the start of AEW? I would argue the last six weeks has been it’s best ever - and that is with my favourite wrestler (omega) not in the picture.
> 
> Thats the thing with opinions and changing things up. You might bring in some casuals, but you might alienate the regulars.


Yep, NXT 2.0 is a perfect example of attempting to target the casuals (only to get nothing), but yet also alienating and luring away a good chunk of the hardcore audience with a mostly mediocre product.

You're supposed to continue catering to the hardcore audience, and then eventually make some minor changes/moves that could potentially attract the casual audience (without significantly watering down the entertaining product). 

If your own hardcore audience is displeased and not entertained, then the chances of them spreading the good word to potential casuals/regulars dramatically decrease. How are the casuals supposed to care about watching the product if your own hardcore audience is unhappy?


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Catering to the hardcore audience is how you don't grow your fanbase. Did the Golden Era cater to hardcore fans? Did the Attitude Era cater to hardcore fans? Did the Ruthless Aggression Era cater to hardcore fans? No, and they were just fine and dandy without catering to them.

Hardcore fans had their little spots on the card that have them what they wanted or had a couple of bones thrown towards them, but catering the entire show towards them is a recipe for disaster. If hardcore fans were catered to you'd see guys like Ricochet, Mustafa Ali, Johnny Gargano and Pete Dunne in the main event scene on the main roster in WWE and we all know how terrible of an idea that would be.

By all means, give the hardcore fans something, give them like 25% of the show catered to them, but the rest of the show should be written to attract new fans. What the hardcore fans want isn't what's best for growing your audience.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

thorn123 said:


> Opinions are funny things eh….
> 
> Question - have you watched since the start of AEW? I would argue the last six weeks has been it’s best ever - and that is with my favourite wrestler (omega) not in the picture.
> 
> Thats the thing with opinions and changing things up. You might bring in some casuals, but you might alienate the regulars.




Yes, I've watched since the beginning and watched most of the PPVs. I catch Dynamite when I can and watch the Youtube videos of all the important segments when I can't. Not sure why this even matters. Do you have to be some hardcore fan that watches everything in the product [Including the B/C shows and BTE] to be worthy of giving an opinion on it? The point is you have to find a delicate balance between keeping your hardcore fans happy and attracting new people. However, as WWE has shown, there is a certain segment of your viewership that will continue watching no matter how bad the product gets and pushes away the more casual fans. Catering your product to the hardcore base that is largely going to stay anyways is a zero sum game. Tony Khan promised to be more selective in his hiring and then hired Danhausen like a month later. I think that's a pretty prime example of continuing to cater to the indy fans that make up most of the "hardcore" section of the fan base.


Is it really just my opinion that AEW has been lackluster lately? Tony Khan promised major surprises on last weeks Dynamite and delivered some rather lackluster results. They got some viewers because of the hype, it was rather "Meh" as they brought in a former WWE midcarder and another guy most casual wrestling fans would only faintly know about, and then saw a massive dropoff in viewers this week.


Things that would be more along the lines of my opinion would be my comment about the MJF/Punk feud dying down. Yet I remember on the front page when we had like 2-3 threads about the feud and how hyped people are about it. Now I hardly even see people discussing it on here. It has noticeably dropped off in hype in my estimation but people here are free to disagree. Similarly, the Page/Cole feels like there is no real heat around the program so far and it's supposed to be your top feud on the show.






PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Catering to the hardcore audience is how you don't grow your fanbase. Did the Golden Era cater to hardcore fans? Did the Attitude Era cater to hardcore fans? Did the Ruthless Aggression Era cater to hardcore fans? No, and they were just fine and dandy without catering to them.
> 
> Hardcore fans had their little spots on the card that have them what they wanted or had a couple of bones thrown towards them, but catering the entire show towards them is a recipe for disaster. If hardcore fans were catered to you'd see guys like Ricochet, Mustafa Ali, Johnny Gargano and Pete Dunne in the main event scene on the main roster in WWE and we all know how terrible of an idea that would be.
> 
> By all means, give the hardcore fans something, give them like 25% of the show catered to them, but the rest of the show should be written to attract new fans. What the hardcore fans want isn't what's best for growing your audience.




I dunno, Attitude Era appealed to just about all fans except the crusty old schoolers like Bruno Sammartino, Bret Hart, and to a lesser extent Jim Cornette. Even the Bryan Alvarez and Dave Meltzers largely praised it, even though they are usually work rate marks. The storylines pretty much made up for the matches typically being under 10 minutes with a lot of run-ins.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Catering to the hardcore audience is how you don't grow your fanbase. Did the Golden Era cater to hardcore fans? Did the Attitude Era cater to hardcore fans? Did the Ruthless Aggression Era cater to hardcore fans? No, and they were just fine and dandy without catering to them.
> 
> Hardcore fans had their little spots on the card that have them what they wanted or had a couple of bones thrown towards them, but catering the entire show towards them is a recipe for disaster. If hardcore fans were catered to you'd see guys like Ricochet, Mustafa Ali, Johnny Gargano and Pete Dunne in the main event scene on the main roster in WWE and we all know how terrible of an idea that would be.
> 
> *By all means, give the hardcore fans something, give them like 25% of the show catered to them,* but the rest of the show should be written to attract new fans. What the hardcore fans want isn't what's best for growing your audience.


Nah, how about we don't do that, and they continue catering to the hardcore audience for at least 90% of the time instead?

I already demonstrated how NXT 2.0 is a perfect example of why you shouldn't focus solely on the casual audience because you'd run the risk of not attracting any new casual/regular viewers, but yet also lure away your hardcore fanbase by going on a completely different direction that's very unappealing.

For the record, that show was getting (much) more viewers when guys like Johnny Gargano and Pete Dunne were more prominent in their early episodes on the USA network. Mustafa Ali and Ricochet make great assets too.

The hardcore fans matter more. I don't get the resentment behind catering to them because pleasing them frequently first EVENTUALLY spreads out the good word to the casual fans who could potentially become regulars.

You don't do that by slapping most of the hardcore audience in the face by ignoring them in favor of casuals who might not even stick around long (due to the mixed/negative responses of the hardcore fanbase).


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

wrong thread


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Catering to the hardcore audience is how you don't grow your fanbase. Did the Golden Era cater to hardcore fans? Did the Attitude Era cater to hardcore fans? Did the Ruthless Aggression Era cater to hardcore fans? No, and they were just fine and dandy without catering to them.
> 
> Hardcore fans had their little spots on the card that have them what they wanted or had a couple of bones thrown towards them, but catering the entire show towards them is a recipe for disaster. If hardcore fans were catered to you'd see guys like Ricochet, Mustafa Ali, Johnny Gargano and Pete Dunne in the main event scene on the main roster in WWE and we all know how terrible of an idea that would be.
> 
> By all means, give the hardcore fans something, give them like 25% of the show catered to them, but the rest of the show should be written to attract new fans. What the hardcore fans want isn't what's best for growing your audience.


Book the Logan Brothers in matches and Billie Eilish as you superstar guest

you don’t think this is what you’re saying - but its really what you‘re saying in 2022

Book Jake Paul to face Cm Punk and book PewdiePie to do a skit with Jungle Boy and pin MJF

Book Lady Gaga to open Revolution and brother brother, go get the Hulk outta retirement for some appearances to do a leg drop and get Greta Thunberg to kick TK in the nuts on tv for not sharing his wealth

lets get a completely intergender world champ and Caitlyn Jenner can be their manager

anything for clicks, publicity, car crash tv to make the youtube / twitch / tik tok generation watch

and oh, the tik toks - fucking loads of them. Tik toks the whole show. Wrestler tik toks, fan tik toks, celeb tik toks

…..

sometimes I think you lads have no idea about current pop culture and reality and you think ‘book ‘n buff dude and someone to make some ‘attitude era’ jokes on tv like Austin and Rock used to will draw the casuals’

fucking hell you have no idea


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, how about we don't do that, and they continue catering to the hardcore audience for at least 90% of the time instead?
> 
> I already demonstrated how NXT 2.0 is a perfect example of why you shouldn't focus solely on the casual audience because you'd run the risk of not attracting any new casual/regular viewers, but yet also lure away your hardcore fanbase by going on a completely different direction that's very unappealing.
> 
> For the record, that show was getting (much) more viewers when guys like Johnny Gargano and Pete Dunne were more prominent in their early episodes on the USA network. Mustafa Ali and Ricochet make great assets too.
> 
> The hardcore fans matter more. I don't get the resentment behind catering to them because pleasing them frequently first EVENTUALLY spreads out the good word to the casual fans who could potentially become regulars.
> 
> You don't do that by slapping most of the hardcore audience in the face by ignoring them in favor of casuals who might not even stick around long (due to the mixed/negative responses of the hardcore fanbase).


I never said you solely cater to the casual audience at all, you don't have to twist my words to make a point, what I'm saying is that you shouldn't cater to only hardcore fans, hardcore fans matter less because they'll stick around and watch whatever AEW puts out, that's just a fact, they'll always watch no matter what you give them. You need to cater a product that appeals to EVERYBODY, AEW's current product doesn't cater to a wide range of people, it's not a show that will make new fans want to tune in. 

AEW in its current state will not attract new fans, it just won't. The formula isn't there and it's not a product that new fans would want to watch, they need to widen their appeal. It's not a slap in the face to hardcore fans by not solely catering the product to them, it's selfish to believe that every facet of the show should be catered to your tastes. AEW has a niche audience that doesn't appeal to the average TV viewer, they need to change it up if they want to grow.

If you're fine never growing the audience and just sticking anywhere between 700k-1.2 million for the rest of AEW's existence that's cool, but I want more people watching wrestling.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Book the Logan Brothers in matches and Billie Eilish as you superstar guest
> 
> you don’t think this is what you’re saying - but its really what you‘re saying in 2022
> 
> Book Jake Paul to face Cm Punk and book PewdiePie to do a skit with Jungle Boy and pin MJF
> 
> Book Lady Gaga to open Revolution and brother brother, go get the Hulk outta retirement for some appearances to do a leg drop and get Greta Thunberg to kick TK in the nuts on tv for not sharing his wealth
> 
> lets get a completely intergender world champ and Caitlyn Jenner can be their manager
> 
> anything for clicks, publicity, car crash tv to make the youtube / twitch / tik tok generation watch
> 
> and oh, the tik toks - fucking loads of them. Tik toks the whole show. Wrestler tik toks, fan tik toks, celeb tik toks
> 
> …..
> 
> sometimes I think you lads have no idea about current pop culture and reality and you think ‘book ‘n buff dude and someone to make some ‘attitude era’ jokes on tv like Austin and Rock used to will draw the casuals’
> 
> fucking hell you have no idea


All I'm saying is AEW need to widen their appeal if they want to grow their audience, I'm not saying they should solely try to cater to casual fans. The AEW product in its current form caters to hardcore fans only, there's nothing else that would cater to any other sort of fan, it's a very niche product that would be extremely difficult for any new fan or lapsed fan to get into. All I'm saying is try something new, go a different direction, because if AEW stay the way they are now they'll forever be stuck between that 700k-1.2 million viewer purgatory and won't grow.


----------



## Teemu™

DammitChrist said:


> The hardcore fans matter more. I don't get the resentment behind catering to them because pleasing them frequently first EVENTUALLY spreads out the good word to the casual fans who could potentially become regulars.


You have any evidence of this? Mainstream wrestling has catered more and more towards hardcores for the past 10 years, and the audience has only gotten smaller.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> All I'm saying is AEW need to widen their appeal if they want to grow their audience, I'm not saying they should solely try to cater to casual fans. The AEW product in its current form caters to hardcore fans only, there's nothing else that would cater to any other sort of fan, it's a very niche product that would be extremely difficult for any new fan or lapsed fan to get into. All I'm saying is try something new, go a different direction, because if AEW stay the way they are now they'll forever be stuck between that 700k-1.2 million viewer purgatory and won't grow.


They are growing - even today

this obsession with USA cable stats has to end

every time they cut a tv deal in a new country they are growing

They’ve just done India, South Africa and Turkey in the last 6 months - who is counting those fans? And who is counting that money?

nobody on this board. Hell, there were some AEW shirts in the crowd at elimination chamber - so, there’s people there in Saudi watching it on Fite and ordering merch

If they keep the course, not only will they stay healthy, but they won’t fuckup what they’ve built so far an alienate their current fans


----------



## Wolf Mark

Was just watching WrestlingInc podcast. Did I hear that right, Dynamite did 869? Hot damn, I'm a casual watcher at best but what happened?


----------



## Teemu™

Wolf Mark said:


> Was just watching WrestlingInc podcast. Did I hear that right, Dynamite did 869? Hot damn, I'm a casual watcher at best but what happened?


They are building the show around CM Punk who has historically been a proven non-draw. It only makes sense.


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Book the Logan Brothers in matches and Billie Eilish as you superstar guest
> 
> you don’t think this is what you’re saying - but its really what you‘re saying in 2022
> 
> Book Jake Paul to face Cm Punk and book PewdiePie to do a skit with Jungle Boy and pin MJF
> 
> Book Lady Gaga to open Revolution and brother brother, go get the Hulk outta retirement for some appearances to do a leg drop and get Greta Thunberg to kick TK in the nuts on tv for not sharing his wealth
> 
> lets get a completely intergender world champ and Caitlyn Jenner can be their manager
> 
> anything for clicks, publicity, car crash tv to make the youtube / twitch / tik tok generation watch
> 
> and oh, the tik toks - fucking loads of them. Tik toks the whole show. Wrestler tik toks, fan tik toks, celeb tik toks
> 
> …..
> 
> sometimes I think you lads have no idea about current pop culture and reality and you think ‘book ‘n buff dude and someone to make some ‘attitude era’ jokes on tv like Austin and Rock used to will draw the casuals’
> 
> fucking hell you have no idea


all of these angles are better than “Adam Cole ain’t my friend anymore “


----------



## Erik.

AEW could quite easily piss off or run off its actual hardcore audience by trying to cater elsewhere.

Seeing as so many people like to compare AEW and Impact. Look at TNA.

They had a hardcore fanbase, were getting a million viewers each week....

What happened?

They tried doing things differently, they tried to reach a completely different audience.

How many fans are they getting now?

Top tip. Keep that hardcore audience happy. They are the ones watching each week, they're the ones buying your PPVs, they're the ones buying the merchandise and are the ones backing you.

The year on year growth AEW are showing is showing quite obvious growth. They just need to keep doing what they're doing.

Why there are comparisons to the likes of the Golden Era and Attitude Era is beyond me. Completely different eras with a completely different culture.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> all of these angles are better than “Adam Cole ain’t my friend anymore “


you need to watch the E! Network mate

they have what you crave


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> They've sold 5,213 tickets for next week's Dynamite in Bridgeport, CT, 80% of those currently available. Current average for Dynamite since crowds returned is 6,120 (Grand Slam at around 20k still raises that average), though they haven't done over 6k since the Newark show about seven weeks ago and seem to be sticking to the 5-6k type facilities at the moment.


TK said they might be touring the west coast soon]

tix will go up again then


----------



## Prized Fighter

LifeInCattleClass said:


> TK said they might be touring the west coast soon]
> 
> tix will go up again then


I am curious to see how ticket sales and even ratings do once AEW starting touring the west coast. There are quite a few untapped markets out there. Every city AEW goes to they tend to try to do some community outreach or a local radio/TV media tour. Also, there are some cool venues they could run out there.


----------



## 3venflow

Advances for upcoming shows and percentages of current capacity:

February 23: AEW Dynamite/Rampage - 5,213 (79.9%)
March 2: AEW Dynamite - 1,292 (49.5%)
March 4: AEW Rampage - 2,633 (63.2%)
March 6: AEW Revolution - 8,217 (98.7%)
March 16: AEW Dynamite/Rampage - 4,679 (82.5%)
March 23: AEW Dynamite/Rampage - 3,039 (71.2%)
April 6: AEW Dynamite/Rampage - 4,716 (89.1%)
May 11: AEW Dynamite/Rampage - 3,661 (56%)

March 2 show is Daily's Place which they seem to have run dry and have slow sales for.


----------



## Savage Elbow

Do they normally hold PPVs at venues around the capacity that Revolution is gonna do? Seems a pretty low number to be aiming for if you're only running four PPVs a year


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, how about we don't do that, and they continue catering to the hardcore audience for at least 90% of the time instead?
> 
> I already demonstrated how NXT 2.0 is a perfect example of why you shouldn't focus solely on the casual audience because you'd run the risk of not attracting any new casual/regular viewers, but yet also lure away your hardcore fanbase by going on a completely different direction that's very unappealing.
> 
> For the record, that show was getting (much) more viewers when guys like Johnny Gargano and Pete Dunne were more prominent in their early episodes on the USA network. Mustafa Ali and Ricochet make great assets too.
> 
> *The hardcore fans matter more. I don't get the resentment behind catering to them because pleasing them frequently first EVENTUALLY spreads out the good word to the casual fans who could potentially become regulars.*
> 
> You don't do that by slapping most of the hardcore audience in the face by ignoring them in favor of casuals who might not even stick around long (due to the mixed/negative responses of the hardcore fanbase).



I'd argue I don't get the resentment of getting some casual fans lol. It reeks of hoping your favorite underground band never gets popular enough to get a major deal. I can feel you on not wanting a drastic "get out of here og fans" change like NXT, where it's clear they're going in the complete opposite direction. But not all changes and tweaks have to be that drastic. 

It's not like AEW itself has an identity that could never be casual friendly. It's not like they're GCW, where they'd have to change their core to appeal to casuals. But they got to find something to bring in more fans. Because while they're not doing as bad as some want them to do. They're also not killing it as much as a promotion that's "doing the best wrestling in 2 decades" with stars like Bryan, Punk, Moxley, Sting and The Elite as regular appearing characters probably should.


----------



## Erik.

Savage Elbow said:


> Do they normally hold PPVs at venues around the capacity that Revolution is gonna do? Seems a pretty low number to be aiming for if you're only running four PPVs a year


Last two PPV attendances:

Full Gear - 10,442
All Out - 10,126

I think the Amway Centre was rumoured initially. That holds nearly 20k but I believe last time they were in the Addition Arena for Dynamite they didn't sell out fully so were perhaps worried they wouldn't sell out Amway.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Savage Elbow said:


> Do they normally hold PPVs at venues around the capacity that Revolution is gonna do? Seems a pretty low number to be aiming for if you're only running four PPVs a year


They do the WCW thing of putting Dynamite in bigger buildings than the PPVs sometimes.


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you need to watch the E! Network mate
> 
> they have what you crave


I don’t watch the e! Network or Cole nonsense but if I had to choose one...


----------



## Wolf Mark

Erik. said:


> AEW could quite easily piss off or run off its actual hardcore audience by trying to cater elsewhere.
> 
> Seeing as so many people like to compare AEW and Impact. Look at TNA.
> 
> They had a hardcore fanbase, were getting a million viewers each week....
> 
> What happened?
> 
> They tried doing things differently, they tried to reach a completely different audience.
> 
> How many fans are they getting now?
> 
> Top tip. Keep that hardcore audience happy. They are the ones watching each week, they're the ones buying your PPVs, they're the ones buying the merchandise and are the ones backing you.
> 
> The year on year growth AEW are showing is showing quite obvious growth. They just need to keep doing what they're doing.
> 
> Why there are comparisons to the likes of the Golden Era and Attitude Era is beyond me. Completely different eras with a completely different culture.


Well, as a fan of TNA back in the day, they never really tried to cater to a hardcore audience fanbase. If it had been the case, it would have been nothing but X Division matches. TNA was created to fill the void of WCW and Jarrett essentialy designed a product that was a parody of the Attitude Era. He always tried to cater to the casuals. Even in the early days there was tons of former WCW/WWF stars like Scott Hall, etc... JJ always chased that buck. They constantly disrespected their hardcore fans, always demeaned their home grown talent. Even when they got a unique talent like Samoa Joe where they could have changed their product and become something interesting like a pro wrestling/MMA hybrid, they chose not to. JJ who was Champ forever could have dropped the belt to Joe and "make him" as a sort of passing the torch, JJ decided to lose to Sting instead. Because he was a "tried and true" known commodity. But it didn't make TNA more popular. It stayed WWE/WCW-lite. So I was not shocked when even by hiring Hogan, they didn't got to the stratosphere. Cause that same formula only got them 1.1 and never got out of it. 

ROH were the ones that catered to a hardcore dedicated fanbase and never changed their tragectory. 

So I actually appreciate AEW focusing on a hardcore fanbase. It's just that the booking has been subpar in my opinion. Even if you focus on an in-ring product for example, you have to realise that it's still TV show.


----------



## Cult03

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, NXT 2.0 is a perfect example of attempting to target the casuals (only to get nothing), but yet also alienating and luring away a good chunk of the hardcore audience with a mostly mediocre product.
> 
> You're supposed to continue catering to the hardcore audience, and then eventually make some minor changes/moves that could potentially attract the casual audience (without significantly watering down the entertaining product).
> 
> If your own hardcore audience is displeased and not entertained, then the chances of them spreading the good word to potential casuals/regulars dramatically decrease. How are the casuals supposed to care about watching the product if your own hardcore audience is unhappy?


NXT 2.0 is not attempting to target casuals at all. They're using a pre-existing slot for their development show. It was initially signed as a combined Raw/NXT deal so their numbers also work with Raw's anyway. They don't care if NXT gets lower views because that's not what it's being used for.


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> They are growing - even today
> 
> this obsession with USA cable stats has to end
> 
> every time they cut a tv deal in a new country they are growing
> 
> They’ve just done India, South Africa and Turkey in the last 6 months - who is counting those fans? And who is counting that money?
> 
> nobody on this board. Hell, there were some AEW shirts in the crowd at elimination chamber - so, there’s people there in Saudi watching it on Fite and ordering merch
> 
> If they keep the course, not only will they stay healthy, but they won’t fuckup what they’ve built so far an alienate their current fans


I've been saying this for months and your crew have argued with me about it. Mostly because it completely negates any win AEW had over NXT who had far more international deals. The amount of viewers isn't a good way to compare shows/overness and the use of social media is a far better indication of who is supported more.


----------



## Cult03

Erik. said:


> Last two PPV attendances:
> 
> Full Gear - 10,442
> All Out - 10,126
> 
> I think the Amway Centre was rumoured initially. That holds nearly 20k but I believe last time they were in the Addition Arena for Dynamite they didn't sell out fully so were perhaps worried they wouldn't sell out Amway.


Are we talking people who actually sat down in their seats of tickets TK bought?


----------



## Cult03

GNKenny said:


> They do the WCW thing of putting Dynamite in bigger buildings than the PPVs sometimes.


Because they treat their weekly show and PPV's exactly the same


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Cult03 said:


> I've been saying this for months and your crew have argued with me about it. Mostly because it completely negates any win AEW had over NXT who had far more international deals. The amount of viewers isn't a good way to compare shows/overness and the use of social media is a far better indication of who is supported more.


i don‘t have a ‘crew’

this isn’t 6th grade

nxt was seen by more people by virtue of the network and international deals - you would never hear me argue against that


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Cult03 said:


> NXT 2.0 is not attempting to target casuals at all. They're using a pre-existing slot for their development show. It was initially signed as a combined Raw/NXT deal so their numbers also work with Raw's anyway. They don't care if NXT gets lower views because that's not what it's being used for.


its a tv show on primetime

it should perform like one

it could be ‘the backstage antics of vince and beaver tooth’ and it would still he expected to draw, no matter the content

its a horrendous rating for primetime tuesday, no matter the content and i think we all know if it wasn’t for the raw relationship it would’ve been yanked off weeks ago


----------



## person who exists

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its a tv show on primetime
> 
> it should perform like one
> 
> it could be ‘the backstage antics of vince and beaver tooth’ and it would still he expected to draw, no matter the content
> 
> its a horrendous rating for primetime tuesday, no matter the content and i think we all know if it wasn’t for the raw relationship it would’ve been yanked off weeks ago





LifeInCattleClass said:


> its a tv show on primetime
> 
> it should perform like one
> 
> it could be ‘the backstage antics of vince and beaver tooth’ and it would still he expected to draw, no matter the content
> 
> its a horrendous rating for primetime tuesday, no matter the content and i think we all know if it wasn’t for the raw relationship it would’ve been yanked off weeks ago


 but aew is also getting objectively pathetic and low ratings,they get under fuckin milion with guys like cm punk,bryan,jericho,sting and other megastars, so why the fuck u don't bitch about that as well u fuckin hypocrite? 

yes,nxt is getting low ratings (also previous nxt with boring midgets got similar ratings),but they aren't supposed to be getting much bigger because they're developmental,while aew has amazing roster and is high budget,so they should be AT LEAST on pair with raw or even smackdown,and they r gettin fuckin 800k roflmao
so,why u two clowns (dammitc) don't mock aew's low ratings as well,not just nxt's,filled with rookies? pathetic and ridiculous tbh


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

person who exists said:


> but aew is also getting objectively pathetic and low ratings,they get under fuckin milion with guys like cm punk,bryan,jericho,sting and other megastars, so why the fuck u don't bitch about that as well u fuckin hypocrite?
> 
> yes,nxt is getting low ratings (also previous nxt with boring midgets got similar ratings),but they aren't supposed to be getting much bigger because they're developmental,while aew has amazing roster and is high budget,so they should be AT LEAST on pair with raw or even smackdown,and they r gettin fuckin 800k roflmao
> so,why u two clowns (dammitc) don't mock aew's low ratings as well,not just nxt's,filled with rookies? pathetic and ridiculous tbh


do you think Eddie Kingston and Kofi Kingston are related?


----------



## Teemu™

LifeInCattleClass said:


> do you think Eddie Kingston and Kofi Kingston are related?


They aren't?


----------



## Teemu™

person who exists said:


> but aew is also getting objectively pathetic and low ratings,they get under fuckin milion with guys like cm punk,bryan,jericho,sting and other megastars, so why the fuck u don't bitch about that as well u fuckin hypocrite?
> 
> yes,nxt is getting low ratings (also previous nxt with boring midgets got similar ratings),but they aren't supposed to be getting much bigger because they're developmental,while aew has amazing roster and is high budget,so they should be AT LEAST on pair with raw or even smackdown,and they r gettin fuckin 800k roflmao
> so,why u two clowns (dammitc) don't mock aew's low ratings as well,not just nxt's,filled with rookies? pathetic and ridiculous tbh


What do you mean AEW has an amazing roster? It's pretty much the same boring midgets from NXT who failed to draw in NXT, as you mentioned. And if not the exact same boring midgets from NXT, then just identical midgets.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*This guy really tried it:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495750366826315776*


----------



## Prized Fighter

The Legit Lioness said:


> *This guy really tried it:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495750366826315776*


So like how Smackdown is on Fox which is in a majority of US homes, while AEW is on TNT/TBS which is in less then half those same homes?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prized Fighter said:


> So like how Smackdown is on Fox which is in a majority of US homes, while AEW is on TNT/TBS which is in less then half those same homes?


yup, the same


----------



## Teemu™

The Legit Lioness said:


> *This guy really tried it:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495750366826315776*


Oh my fucking fucking god, fucking AEW fans lmao.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prized Fighter said:


> So like how Smackdown is on Fox which is in a majority of US homes, while AEW is on TNT/TBS which is in less then half those same homes?


*Not even close. One is free and the other is very expensive. TNT/TBS is in about the same number of homes as USA network, yet Dynamite has never come close to RAW. Start there before using the Fox excuse for SmackDown.*


----------



## Prized Fighter

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Not even close. One is free and the other is very expensive. TNT/TBS is in about the same number of homes as USA network, yet Dynamite has never come close to RAW. Start there before using the Fox excuse for SmackDown.*


No excuse. I think AEW should be doing Raw's ratings based on the homes their in. Smackdown is the one that shouldn't have an excuse. There is no reason they shouldn't do 2.5 to 3 million with the amount of homes they're in. The Simpsons still do 2.8 million on average (.91 in the demo). Smackdown should be blowing Raw out of the water since Raw is in less then half of the amount of homes. Here is the link for Fox shows: FOX 2021-22 TV Season Ratings (updated 2/19/2022)

Free TV or not, AEW is getting more eyes on them in the UK and Canada then WWE. That is a win for them in those markets.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prized Fighter said:


> No excuse. I think AEW should be doing Raw's ratings based on the homes their in. Smackdown is the one that shouldn't have an excuse. There is no reason they shouldn't do 2.5 to 3 million with the amount of homes they're in. The Simpsons still do 2.8 million on average (.91 in the demo). Smackdown should be blowing Raw out of the water since Raw is in less then half of the amount of homes. Here is the link for Fox shows: FOX 2021-22 TV Season Ratings (updated 2/19/2022)
> 
> Free TV or not, AEW is getting more eyes on them in the UK and Canada then WWE. That is a win for them in those markets.


*Don't worry about what Smackdown "should" be doing when AEW just dropped below 900k because Tony Khan routinely disappoints his audience with overhyped announcements.*


----------



## Prized Fighter

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Don't worry about what Smackdown "should" be doing when AEW just dropped below 900k because Tony Khan routinely disappoints his audience with overhyped announcements.*


You literally started the conversation with a Twitter post comparing WWE and AEW's ratings. Why would I not discuss both? As I posted before, I think AEW should be getting higher ratings. If you want more, this past weeks Dynamite rating was a disappointment and they should never drop below 900k. If you want, I can quote my previous post on this thread that mentions that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Legit is feeling bad after a terrible Elimination Chamber

don’t worry @The Legit Lioness - Reigns is on Friday and he’ll most likely beat Brock at Wrestlemania - everything will be ok!


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Legit is feeling bad after a terrible Elimination Chamber
> 
> don’t worry @The Legit Lioness - Reigns is on Friday and he’ll most likely beat Brock at Wrestlemania - everything will be ok!


*? I loved the matches with my people in it. The women's chamber stole the show, Bianca won, Reigns won, and Lita somehow got better after a 15 year hiatus. I have nothing to be mad about.*


----------



## person who exists

LifeInCattleClass said:


> do you think Eddie Kingston and Kofi Kingston are related?


 I mean,they obviously are,that's a FACT,cuz they has the EXACT same surname,but what does dat have to do with ratings topic wtf? answer the question PAL
or r u too much of a coward to answer


----------



## person who exists

Teemu™ said:


> What do you mean AEW has an amazing roster? It's pretty much the same boring midgets from NXT who failed to draw in NXT, as you mentioned. And if not the exact same boring midgets from NXT, then just identical midgets.


well u r half right, but they don't have ONLY those boring nxt midgets,they also have high quality promo/charisma mainstream guys like already mentioned cm punk, malakai,sting,warlord etc,they have solid variety of wrestlers it's just a shame bookers or tony are so objectively incompetetent n terrible at bookin etc


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

person who exists said:


> I mean,they obviously are,that's a FACT,cuz they has the EXACT same surname,but what does dat have to do with ratings topic wtf? answer the question PAL
> or r u too much of a coward to answer


too much of a coward, obviously


----------



## person who exists

LifeInCattleClass said:


> too much of a coward, obviously


doesn't matter, I luv ya all the same, darlin :*


----------



## Not Lying

^ 
I hope the irony isn’t on lost on some people that a rejoiner/alt acc is calling someone a coward 😂


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495790470756282370

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Erik.

The Legit Lioness said:


> *This guy really tried it:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495750366826315776*


To be fair, ITV4 give us Dynamite 2 days after it airs in the US. So I'm quite surprised it would do better numbers on a Friday night. I think it airs at 11:30pm. Especially when most people have likely watched it since then online somehow. 

No one I know actually watches Dynamite on ITV though - most just pay for it on FITE because its live.

I think the deal between AEW and ITV is pretty poor. Its good they've got a deal but ITV rarely promote the show and don't even show it live. 

Whereas WWE is on BT Sports, which you have to pay for, is on live and is heavily promoted. 

I think TNA did better ratings than WWE over in the UK too.


----------



## DaSlacker

Edited versions of WWE Raw and WWE SmackDown are shown on free TV, I believe. One of the Channel 5 owned channels. 

Fuck knows how it does it the ratings. Wrestling is more niche in the UK than ever before. Jason Statham movies and flicks from the 1950's are beating WWE in TV viewership. AEW isn't doing much better - in the most recent ratings it was lower than Rooster Cogburn (1975) and Snooker. 

The good news is that despite how niche it is, it is still popular enough to make money and more accessible than ever due to the internet.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan

holy said:


> My guess is that the suspense of Tony's "major announcement" is what drew in viewers last week. That's why I tuned in.
> 
> When I found out it was only Keith Lee, it left a sour taste in my mouth. No offense to him, but he's not a big enough of a star to warrant such hype.


Your polite disappointment in the surprise is much appreciated. We can disagree without burying a wrestler’s ability or appearance. 

Was there someone else that you would have preferred over Keith Lee? He was the most mentioned man for the spot for several days leading up to that Wednesday. The next most mentioned name was Jay White and he debuted just before Lee that night.

Tony K’s problematic phrasing notwithstanding those were the two most likely debuts that night. Jeff Hardy is obviously coming but he isn’t free until around Revolution’s show date.

With Keith Lee’s skill set and size there wasn’t anyone available that I would probably want more in AEW excluding certain ROH or former NXT lady talent. TK might have botched his own definition of a door but he never mentioned a tag team, the current ROH Champ or several women formerly of NXT.


----------



## Peerless

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494483353642446855
Will Tony ever learn that no one wants to see Bryan in a 12 min match against jobbers?


----------



## rbl85

His match got a 100k gain and was the high point of the show

What the f are you talking about ?


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

For the love of God Bryan needs to stop doing the whole workrate stuff and do the character based stuff we all know he can do. 

Bring back the Heel Vegan gimmick you fucking coward.


----------



## Teemu™

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> For the love of God Bryan needs to stop doing the whole workrate stuff and do the character based stuff we all know he can do.
> 
> Bring back the Heel Vegan gimmick you fucking coward.


I hear you, but it's not gonna happen. This is what he likes, this is exactly why he joined AEW. He loves the workrate stuff, and "real pro wrestling" and all that. Back in the 2000s, Bryan was originally never gonna leave the indies because he loved the style. It's a shame, too, because in the WWE, he very much proved himself to be more than a vanilla midget, but what are you gonna do.

I mean, power to him. He's made his money, so he's taking advantage of Tony Khan allowing him to do what he wants for fun. It's not particularly interesting, though.


----------



## Geeee

Man, you guys really missed the point of the Danielson/Moriarty match. It wasn't just a 10 minute match with a jobber. It WAS a storyline-based match. Danielson asked for the match with Moriarty and he wasn't in there to beat him as fast as he can and dominate him as much as he could. He was testing Moriarty and seeing what he had to offer. This is all part of the storyline with Jon Moxley


----------



## Erik.

Geeee said:


> Man, you guys really missed the point of the Danielson/Moriarty match. It wasn't just a 10 minute match with a jobber. It WAS a storyline-based match. Danielson asked for the match with Moriarty and he wasn't in there to beat him as fast as he can and dominate him as much as he could. He was testing Moriarty and seeing what he had to offer. This is all part of the storyline with Jon Moxley


It's worrying that people need to be walked through a wrestling show. It really is.


----------



## RapShepard

Geeee said:


> Man, you guys really missed the point of the Danielson/Moriarty match. It wasn't just a 10 minute match with a jobber. It WAS a storyline-based match. Danielson asked for the match with Moriarty and he wasn't in there to beat him as fast as he can and dominate him as much as he could. He was testing Moriarty and seeing what he had to offer. This is all part of the storyline with Jon Moxley


Alternatively they didn't find "let me test the young guy I want to join me" interesting. He did this in WWE in wanting to work with Murphy and Drew Gulak. Bryan might have a good eye for in-ring talent, but a bad eye for what's actually going to be interesting TV.

Let me test Lee Moriarty who in the grand scheme of things nobody cares about. Doesn't make for an interesting segment as of now. Maybe if Lee was better established it'd had more oomph to it.


----------



## La Parka

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> For the love of God Bryan needs to stop doing the whole workrate stuff and do the character based stuff we all know he can do.
> 
> Bring back the Heel Vegan gimmick you fucking coward.


You're right but as another poster said. He'll never change.

I remember when he and Gulak had this long ass match and the crowd was completely silent throughout. Bryan doesn't want to be a star, which is a problem for a company that could use more.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 471,000
18-49: 0.20

It finished #11 on cable for Friday.

Lowest viewership since New Year's Eve, but the demo was up on last week and equal to two weeks ago. Remember it was in an unfamiliar timeslot, which no doubt had some effect on viewership.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496235357846790146
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewers: 471,000
> 18-49: 0.20
> 
> It finished #11 on cable for Friday.
> 
> Lowest viewership since New Year's Eve, but the demo was up on last week and equal to two weeks ago. Remember it was in an unfamiliar timeslot, which no doubt had some effect on viewership.


remind me, why was it moved?


----------



## 3venflow

@LifeInCattleClass There was a special NBA game on in its usual timeslot, which did 1.2m and 0.47.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> @LifeInCattleClass There was a special NBA game on in its usual timeslot, which did 1.2m and 0.47.


well geez

who can blame them with that number

thx


----------



## Fearless Viper

Time to announce someone's debut!


----------



## Prized Fighter

Does anyone know if the west coast got Rampage live or at 7 pm (PT)? I am curious because the traditional thought has been that moving Rampage to an earlier time would help the rating, but asking people on the west coast to watch TV at 4 pm (PT) seems a big ask. Personally, I don't even get out of work until 4 pm on Friday and I have a 30 minute drive home.

It makes more sense to have Rampage on at 7 pm (EST) and then on a 3 hour delay for the west coast. 7 pm on the east coast and 7 pm on the west coast. It would actually be perfect because it would avoid crossing with Smackdown completely.


----------



## validreasoning

Prized Fighter said:


> No excuse. I think AEW should be doing Raw's ratings based on the homes their in. Smackdown is the one that shouldn't have an excuse. There is no reason they shouldn't do 2.5 to 3 million with the amount of homes they're in. The Simpsons still do 2.8 million on average (.91 in the demo). Smackdown should be blowing Raw out of the water since Raw is in less then half of the amount of homes. Here is the link for Fox shows:


The Simpsons often benefit airing directly after Sunday Football games on Fox so there is 20 million people already watching. Without the NFL lead in SD beats the Simpsons comfortably. One such example new Simpsons episode at 8pm here did 1.6m viewers and a 0.3 SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Sunday 11.14.2021 Top 150 Cable Originals & Network Finals UPDATED | Showbuzz Daily

UFC on Fox weren't doing 3 million viewers in 2017-19 and they were putting on stronger cards than SD is who rarely have their top guys like Reigns, Becky, Charlotte work TV and never have Brock, Rousey, Goldberg, Cena work free tv when they are there.


----------



## the_hound

you wanted it away from the 10pm Friday death slot because apparently it's harming the viewership, moves to an earlier time slot and does even worse ratings *aye but it's because it's not on its usual time slot*


----------



## Sad Panda

the_hound said:


> you wanted it away from the 10pm Friday death slot because apparently it's harming the viewership, moves to an earlier time slot and does even worse ratings *aye but it's because it's not on its usual time slot*


You’re being silly. Yes, we want Rampage on at an earlier time, it’s just so much more convenient for the majority of people on the east coast if it were on at 7/8/9 pm.


There’s a history of statistical evidence however that a show moving days or time slots for a one off usually results in less eyeballs. Just facts. 

Now, if AEW were going to make that move permanently and had weeks/months of promotion behind said move im confident there would be an uptick in viewership. For the average viewer 10 pm is just a crappy time to watch anything, let alone a wrestling program.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well geez
> 
> who can blame them with that number
> 
> thx


*Two things: 

1. Yes, the Bucks tanked the Dynamite ratings this week. 

2. Rampage was in a prime time slot and BELLY FLOPPED! No excuses. It was promoted* *all last week.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Uh, I'm pretty sure that the Young Bucks weren't even on TV for longer than 5 minutes; so no, that's not it at all.



Sad Panda said:


> You’re being silly. Yes, we want Rampage on at an earlier time, it’s just so much more convenient for the majority of people on the east coast if it were on at 7/8/9 pm.
> 
> 
> There’s a history of statistical evidence however that a show moving days or time slots for a one off usually results in less eyeballs. Just facts.
> 
> Now, if AEW were going to make that move permanently and had weeks/months of promotion behind said move im confident there would be an uptick in viewership. For the average viewer 10 pm is just a crappy time to watch anything, let alone a wrestling program.


Yea, I think it's pretty obvious to everyone else that the time slot change for this week is a valid explanation for these numbers for Rampage.

That's definitely not even an 'excuse' too since it's a perfectly good reason on why some folks weren't around last Friday. Hell, even a friend of mine (who regularly watches Dynamite and Rampage) that I react with missed Rampage this past week. He had to watch the show on delay. I wouldn't even be surprised if there's plenty of more viewers went through the same situation too.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Two things:
> 
> 1. Yes, the Bucks tanked the Dynamite ratings this week.
> 
> 2. Rampage was in a prime time slot and BELLY FLOPPED! No excuses. It was promoted* *all last week.*


simp harder for your green mma bag of butts and tits

its more entertaining than whatever this is


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> simp harder for your green mma bag of butts and tits
> 
> its more entertaining than whatever this is


*You ask if the Bucks tank the ratings weekly, so I had an answer for you 😃*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *You ask if the Bucks tank the ratings weekly, so I had an answer for you 😃*


lol, i know - i was trying to deflect


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Good on the women for gaining viewers.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496501854007562240*


----------



## Teemu™

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Good on the women for gaining viewers.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496501854007562240*


AEW fans don't get to see females very often, that explains it.

Neither do I, to be fair.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Teemu™ said:


> AEW fans don't get to see females very often, that explains it.
> 
> Neither do I, to be fair.


*I appreciate your honesty 😆*


----------



## Dr. Middy

Number sucked, but I didn't really expect a good one since it was moved and basically on 3pm on the West Coast.

Was nice to see the White/Trent match keep viewers and Serena get a little bump though.


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Good on the women for gaining viewers.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496501854007562240*


Yess. Our favorite charisma vacuum gaining viewers


----------



## RainmakerV2

Fuckin Dante Martin.






Jay White saving the day cause duh.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> Yess. Our favorite charisma vacuum gaining viewers


*Yes she did!*


----------



## DammitChrist

Jay White and Serena Deeb with the apparent save!


----------



## Rankles75

Expect the ratings will bounce back to just over a million this week. Which obviously still won’t be great, but a significant improvement over last week.


----------



## Mr316

I predict 805k.


----------



## Teemu™

Somewhere around 350k.


----------



## DammitChrist

Teemu™ said:


> Somewhere around 350k.


Yep, that sounds about right.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewership: 1,010,000
18-49: 0.41

Per PW Torch


----------



## Sad Panda

Last week just makes no sense.


----------



## 3venflow

Thurston has the key demo at 0.40. Either way, a major rise from last week's seeming anomaly (I thought last week's show was much bettter personally).


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496956280577138695


----------



## RainmakerV2

Adam Coles forehead is safe again.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Garcia bringing his Rampage main event magic to Dynamite.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Teemu™ said:


> Somewhere around 350k.



You mean Tree Fiddy?


----------



## rbl85

Mr316 said:


> Expect another bad rating.


Dang


----------



## Prosper

Nice bounce back. Last weeks show was a lot better (especially with the Darby/Guevara main event) than last night's and it got a lower rating. I wonder if all the people who were screaming doomsday and saying that last week's show was shit AFTER the fact will own up to it today. Probably not. But bet your bottom dollar they'll be here talking shit the next time ratings are down! lol 

You never know with these things, ratings can be up or down for any reason. The quality of the show is clearly not always reflected in live cable ratings. With last night being more promo heavy, it seems like live cable viewers enjoyed the MJF, Hangman, Jericho, and Kingston promos as much as I did. A lot of compelling mic work last night.


----------



## Aedubya

Aedubya said:


> Anything above 0.85 is good, anything above 0.9 is v good , anything above 0.95 is brilliant , anything above 1.0 is outstanding


Outstanding


----------



## rbl85

Prosper said:


> Nice bounce back. Last weeks show was a lot better (especially with the Darby/Guevara main event) than last night's and it got a lower rating. I wonder if all the people who were screaming doomsday and saying that last week's show was shit AFTER the fact will own up to it today. Probably not. But bet your bottom dollar they'll be here talking shit the next time ratings are down! lol
> 
> You never know with these things, ratings can be up or down for any reason. The quality of the show is clearly not always reflected in live cable ratings. With last night being more promo heavy, it seems like live cable viewers enjoyed the MJF, Hangman, Jericho, and Kingston promos as much as I did. A lot of compelling mic work last night.


I said last week that from time to time there is a big drop "out of nowhere" for Dynamite then it's back to normal


----------



## Sad Panda

rbl85 said:


> I said last week that from time to time there is a big drop "out of nowhere" for Dynamite then it's back to normal


This is more a rhetorical question but how is that possible? Like, where do 200,000 plus people go? And then the next week they come back? I just don’t grasp it.


----------



## DammitChrist

Yep, I figured that last week was a weird anomaly. 

As expected, this company knows what they're doing regarding the good/entertaining quality of their shows 

Keep appeasing your hardcore audience.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Look at that growth

200k new fans

thanks Bucks!

’siri…send note of post to @The Legit Lioness … alarm for response please’


----------



## TD Stinger

The better rating isn’t a surprise to me considering there was no NBA competition on last night.


----------



## Wrestle-Man

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewership: 1,010,000
> 18-49: 0.41
> 
> Per PW Torch


Yikes, it’s still below their 1.4 million viewership peak from 2019, nearly 3 years ago.

There’s no growth here in regards to numbers.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496963730906787844


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Wrestle-Man said:


> Yikes, it’s still below their 1.4 million viewership peak from 2019, nearly 3 years ago.
> 
> There’s no growth here in regards to numbers.


i just noticed you are new

very nice to have such a new active member - welcome

i think you’d find that last week was 850k, and this week was 1m

so that is growth. All new fans coming to watch.

most likely buddy matthew fans who heard he was making his debut

Happy days!


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Look at that growth
> 
> 200k new fans
> 
> thanks Bucks!
> 
> ’siri…send note of post to @The Legit Lioness … alarm for response please’


*Bold of you to post this without the chart 🤣*


----------



## Wrestle-Man

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i just noticed you are new
> 
> very nice to have such a new active member - welcome
> 
> i think you’d find that last week was 850k, and this week was 1m
> 
> so that is growth. All new fans coming to watch.
> 
> most likely buddy matthew fans who heard he was making his debut
> 
> Happy days!


Yeah but the prior month and even a couple months before they did 1.1 or 1.3.

That’s not growth, That’s called fluctuation.

By definition they’d have to exceed their highest to Grow, their highest is 1.4 million.

Numbers are objective , 1.3,1.2,1.1 million are Less than 1.4 Million, they therefore did not Grow/Get more.

Going from 1.3 to 1.1 to 800k back to 1.1 isn’t growing/getting bigger than 1.4 million, that’s a fluctuation while not growing the 1.4 million.


----------



## Geeee

I don't really get ratings. In terms of overall quality, this was not as good as like the last 3 weeks.

One thing is that the Danielson/Moxley/Foster kids storyline was somewhat woven through the show, so maybe that kept people watching the whole episode?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Bold of you to post this without the chart 🤣*


i know in my heart of hearts when my boys done good


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Wrestle-Man said:


> Yeah but the prior month and even a couple months before they did 1.1 or 1.3.
> 
> That’s not growth, That’s called fluctuation.
> 
> By definition they’d have to exceed their highest to Grow, their highest is 1.4 million.
> 
> Numbers are objective , 1.3,1.2,1.1 million are Less than 1.4 Million, they therefore did not Grow/Get more.
> 
> Going from 1.3 to 1.1 to 800k back to 1.1 isn’t growing/getting bigger than 1.4 million, that’s a fluctuation while not growing the 1.4 million.


actually, when it drops - people on here are saying the fans left

if fans left that makes a new baseline.

so if it goes up from the new baseline its growth

and its wondeful to have all these new fans


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i know in my heart of hearts when my boys done good


*Not the shitty Battle Royal peaking viewership, lmao 😂*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496963730906787844


----------



## Wrestle-Man

LifeInCattleClass said:


> actually, when it drops - people on here are saying the fans left
> 
> if fans left that makes a new baseline.
> 
> so if it goes up from the new baseline its growth
> 
> and its wondeful to have all these new fans


New fans could only be indicated by having more viewers than their highest base, which is 1.4 million.

They never did, therefore no new fans.

Instead ratings fluctuate because same people switch off and on.


----------



## Geeee

Wrestle-Man said:


> Yikes, it’s still below their 1.4 million viewership peak from 2019, nearly 3 years ago.
> 
> There’s no growth here in regards to numbers.


You're assuming that US TV ratings are the only important indicator of growth. Also, placing way too much emphasis on a single point of data.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Wrestle-Man said:


> New fans could only be indicated by having more viewers than their highest base, which is 1.4 million.
> 
> They never did, therefore no new fans.
> 
> Instead ratings fluctuate because same people switch off and on.


but you just joined

so you must be a new fan

at least that is 1 confirmed + in growth we can count

thanks for playing your part in bumping the ratings


----------



## 3venflow

^ Can't ignore the fact that cable has lost millions more subscribers since 2019. 5.9m cut the cord in 2019, 5.5m in 2020, and probably similar if not more in 2021. AEW is the _only_ pro wrestling show that has grown its *average* viewership year-on-year despite cable's decline.

AEW has also grown in every other metric. Literally every one. It's certainly a much bigger company in 2022 than it was in 2019.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Sad Panda said:


> This is more a rhetorical question but how is that possible? Like, where do 200,000 plus people go? And then the next week they come back? I just don’t grasp it.


I said this after last week, but I really think AEW has a big following in the NY/NJ market. Last week there was an exciting game between the Nets/Knicks. Now, that doesn't account for all 200k drop, but it should be factored in. With that said, AEW should never drop that much in viewership regardless of competition.

No NBA games or Olympics definitely helped this week. I would be interested to see if the BBT lead-in was still lower then normal.


----------



## 3venflow

Number three on cable.


----------



## 3venflow

Taken from Brandon's stream. Very consistent. No major gains or losses except perhaps Q3 in the demo.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Number three on cable.
> 
> View attachment 117365


who da hell is Don Lemon and can he wrestle?


----------



## 3venflow

@LifeInCattleClass A news journalist and Russia invaded Ukraine, so that probably explains his ratings.


----------



## Erik.

Get used to seeing the news take over the top spots guys, we're in for a wild ride.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Wrestle-Man said:


> Yikes, it’s still below their 1.4 million viewership peak from 2019, nearly 3 years ago.
> 
> There’s no growth here in regards to numbers.


Can we stop using their DEBUT show as a measure of their peak audience. The first show was always going to get a big rating out of pure curiosity for the first major promotion outside of WWE since 2001. Since then their average viewership has increased whereas WWE's and NXT has decreased.

The debut of Smackdown on Fox with the Rock on got 4 million viewers but no ones going around expecting them to pull that many viewers in again.


----------



## Wrestle-Man

A PG Attitude said:


> Can we stop using their DEBUT show as a measure of their peak audience. The first show was always going to get a big rating out of pure curiosity for the first major promotion outside of WWE since 2001. Since then their average viewership has increased whereas WWE's and NXT has decreased.
> 
> The debut of Smackdown on Fox with the Rock on got 4 million viewers but no ones going around expecting them to pull that many viewers in again.


No, that 1.4 was the initial interest and peak audience, meaning they turned viewers away and didn’t grow the product, but declined.

Same with the WWE there, you won’t see me be biased, they’re both trash and both have declined.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Wrestle-Man said:


> No, that 1.4 was the initial interest and peak audience, meaning they turned viewers away and didn’t grow the product, but declined.
> 
> Same with the WWE there, you won’t see me be biased, they’re both trash and both have declined.


That's nonsense. It was the first show, you cant build a promotions entire storyline into one show, hundreds of thousands of people just couldn't be arsed to watch the following weeks and see stories and wrestlers develop, they watched the debut then moved on to whatever else takes up their attention.


----------



## DammitChrist

A PG Attitude said:


> Can we stop using their DEBUT show as a measure of their peak audience. The first show was always going to get a big rating out of pure curiosity for the first major promotion outside of WWE since 2001. Since then their average viewership has increased whereas WWE's and NXT has decreased.
> 
> The debut of Smackdown on Fox with the Rock on got 4 million viewers but no ones going around expecting them to pull that many viewers in again.


Either way, it's cool.

If we still use those high expectations regarding peak audiences, AEW's 300K viewer gap from their debut show still crushes Smackdown's gargantuan 2-million viewer gap from October 2019; so it's a win-win situation either way


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> Either way, it's cool.
> 
> If we still use those high expectations regarding peak audiences, AEW's 300K viewer gap from their debut show still crushes Smackdown's gargantuan 2-million viewer gap from October 2019; so it's a win-win situation either way


Sure it's a win if you're using whataboutism which isn't a valid argument so using that comparison is a loss in itself. Though I do disagree that 1.4 was ever sustainable. It's true there was 1.4m interested to see what they had. It's unrealistic to hold the interest of every one of them and thus disingenuous to call that their "peak" even if statistically true.


----------



## Erik.

Wrestle-Man said:


> No, that 1.4 was the initial interest and peak audience, meaning they turned viewers away and didn’t grow the product, but declined.
> 
> Same with the WWE there, you won’t see me be biased, they’re both trash and both have declined.


It's common knowledge that the pilot episodes of most TV series' mostly do the best rating.

Have a look at any of the highly acclaimed television shows that are considered some of the best of all time. The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire - the FIRST episode of the particular season will always mostly have the highest viewers until perhaps later in the season when stories are drawing to a close or thefinal episode.

And that's perhaps where wrestling falls short, it's live weekly episode television with no break in series.

Big episodes will reach bigger ratings. We've seen that with special episodes of Raw, we've seen that with special episode of Smackdown, we've seen that with CM Punks return, we've seen that with Dynamite PPV specials.

There's no guarantee that AEW lost all 1,400,000 of those viewers at all. All we know if that 1,400,000 aren't watching LIVE ON CABLE anymore. Maybe they decided to DVR it each week. Maybe they decided to just watch it illegally. Or maybe legally through FITE instead. Or maybe they no longer have cable. Who knows.

Who really cares ultimately?

As a wrestling fan, which I assume you are as you post on a wrestling forum, you either enjoy it or not.


----------



## 3venflow

I feel like the only noteworthy rise or gain is that big 7% rise in Q3 among the 18-49s. I'd guess the MJF/Punk promo is largely behind that.


----------



## omaroo

I give up working out the ratings

Consistency may not be happening and likely we will see drops and increases most weeks.

It is what it is.


----------



## DaSlacker

Some shows are slowburners and increase from the pilot. Even in this day and age. 9-1-1, Yellowstone ansd Succession are recent examples. 

Worth noting that on 2nd October 2019 upwards of 2.3 million were watching wrestling on TV that night. 1.4 million for AEW (a peak of about 1.7 million - about WWE's average now). My gut feeling is that people gave it a look but just didn't see anything they hadn't seen before and couldn't see several times per week. Albeit more micromanaged and sketch like. It's not that AEW isn't good, it's just that it never offered a strong enough dose of freshness to break the WWE habit for the older demographic. So they stick with the devil they know.


----------



## One Shed

The Hardly's car crash trash match scored lowest in the precious key demo?


----------



## Jay Trotter

Big jump in the demo for MJF and Punk. Solid number for Jericho and Kingston as well. Peak of night in 18-49. Just goes to show good lengthy promos pull in the interest. Always better to have the right balance instead of match heavy shows.


----------



## Erik.

What's interesting is that growth seems to be measured by the debut episode and not on yearly numbers.

Considering we are seemingly told that it's RATINGS that are the be all and end all of importance when it comes to judging a wrestling show, let's take a look at the average numbers from 2019 to 2022 between all three of the big national wrestling television shows. We'll do them from the week Dynamite started just to make it a little fair.

*2019 avg:*
Raw - *2,199,000*
Smackdown -*2,475,000*
Dynamite -* 911,000

2020 avg:*
Raw - *1,879,000 (15% decrease from previous year)*
Smackown - *2,156,000 (13% decrease from previous year)*
Dynamite *- 811,000 (11% decrease from previous year)

2021 avg:*
Raw - *1,755,903 (7% decrease from previous year)*
Smackdown* - 2,089,000 (3% decrease from previous year)*
Dynamite - *892,000 (10% increase from previous year)

2022 avg:*
Raw - *1,676,000 (5% decrease from previous year)*
Smackdown *- 2,210,000 (6% increase from previous year)*
Dynamite - *1,009,000 (13% increase from previous year)*

So basically - Dynamite had the highest increases from their previous years in 2021 and so far in 2022 out of all three wrestling shows.

It also had the lowest decrease during the pandemic out of all three wrestling shows.

It's also the only wrestling television show to have actually INCREASED it's viewership from 2019 when data was collected.

From 2019 - 2022:

Raw has lost *24%* of it's viewership.
Smackdown has lost *11%* of it's viewership.
Dynamite has INCREASED it's viewership by *11%*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Guys, its been proven over and over if you look at dvr +7 they are on 1.4 and 1.5

theres no need to feed the troll - what happened is what happens with all shows

a quarter or more decided not to watch live


----------



## Erik.

A lot of people also think the key demographic is the most important factor. So actually let's have a look at those numbers too between all three shows.

*2019 avg:*
Raw - *0.71*
Smackdown - *0.75*
Dynamite -* 0.38

2020 avg:*
Raw - *0.57* *(20% decrease from previous year)*
Smackown - *0.59 (21% decrease from previous year)*
Dynamite *- 0.32 (16% decrease from previous year)

2021 avg:*
Raw - *0.51 (11% decrease from previous year)*
Smackdown* - 0.55 (7% decrease from previous year)*
Dynamite - *0.33 (3% increase from previous year)

2022 avg:*
Raw - *0.44* *(14% decrease from previous year)*
Smackdown *- 0.56 (2% increase from previous year)*
Dynamite - *0.39 (18% increase from previous year)*

So with regards to the key demographic, Dynamite had the highest increases in percentage from their previous years in 2021 and so far in 2022 out of all three wrestling shows.

It also had the lowest decrease during the pandemic out of all three wrestling shows.

It's also the only wrestling television show to have actually INCREASED it's key demographic from 2019 when data was collected.

From 2019 - 2022:

Raw has lost *38%* of it's key demographic
Smackdown has lost *25%* of it's key demographic
Dynamite has increased it's key demographic by *2.63%*


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497176599841677331


----------



## Teemu™

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497176599841677331


Pre-Network, WrestleMania was doing over a million. Not impressive.


----------



## 3venflow

Wrestlemania is a cultural institution going back decades, All Out isn't. All Out also did more buys than the last Survivor Series before the Network and that's one of the Fed's big four PPVs with years worth of brand recognition.

Better comparison would be TNA, which never did more than 55~60,000 buys for a PPV with guys like Angle, Steiner, Booker and Joe on their roster (and PPV was more relevant back then). This is nearly four times that number. It also did more buys than some WCW PPVs when WCW was still quite relevant (99).

AEW's PPV buyrates are super impressive. It's honestly not even debatable and is widely agreed upon. The $10m gross figure says it all about the success of All Out.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Crazy good number for All Out. If WWE didn’t have the network then likely only their big 4 would get a bigger number than that by this point (and even then I think Survivor Series and even Summerslam would be questionable). Punk’s return was a huge deal and the PPV did exceedingly well.


----------



## VitoCorleoneX

Found this on Reddit









Not bad for a 3 year old pissant company.


----------



## Teemu™

VitoCorleoneX said:


> Found this on Reddit
> View attachment 117420
> 
> 
> Not bad for a 3 year old pissant company.


A lot of that really goes to show what a poor draw CM Punk was. And it really shows how poor the indy midget workrate era has been. Glad The Rock saved some of those later numbers.


----------



## Erik.

Teemu™ said:


> A lot of that really goes to show what a poor draw CM Punk was. And it really shows how poor the indy midget workrate era has been. Glad The Rock saved some of those later numbers.


Or you know, it shows the decline in PPV.


----------



## 3venflow

Elimination Chamber 2013 was headlined by Rock vs. Cena and only did a modest amount more than All Out. And PPV was more popular then, but already in decline.

Much like TV ratings, PPV buyrates must be taken in context of now vs. then. AEW is doing some really good numbers for its PPVs. That's what having a loyal hardcore base will do and why that base must not be compromised.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Summerslam probably barely does 200k in 2021 looking at the numbers. 2020 easily does under 200k. It would likely just be Rumble and Mania that beat AEW’s numbers.

Although I’ll say in fairness, AEW only has 4 PPV’s a year vs. WWE doing 12 or so. Plus All Out was a huge number thanks to Punk. Reality is the norm If WWE did them the same (just their big 4).The other PPVs, Full Gear, Revolution, and Double or Nothing did in the 100-150k range. Which is really good, but I think it would still be below a year where it’s just RR, Mania, SS, and Survivor Series (with maybe Survivor Series being the one most AEW PPVs beat out). I’d GUESS RR does 250-400k, SS 150-250k, and SVS 100-150k… with Mania still doing big numbers like 700k- l1m or so because it’s Mania.


----------



## Erik.

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Summerslam probably barely does 200k in 2021 looking at the numbers. 2020 easily does under 200k. It would likely just be Rumble and Mania that beat AEW’s numbers.
> 
> Although I’ll say in fairness, AEW only has 4 PPV’s a year vs. WWE doing 12 or so. Plus All Out was a huge number thanks to Punk. Reality is the norm If WWE did them the same (just their big 4).The other PPVs, Full Gear, Revolution, and Double or Nothing did in the 100-150k range. Which is really good, but I think it would still be below a year where it’s just RR, Mania, SS, and Survivor Series (with maybe Survivor Series being the one most AEW PPVs beat out).


I think the most important factor here isn't what WWE would be doing.

But the fact AEW is a 2 year old company.

When WCW was founded, it took them 6 years to do a better buy rate than All Out did...

And that was because they headlined with Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair...


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Two Sheds said:


> The Hardly's car crash trash match scored lowest in the precious key demo?


*@LifeInCattleClass 







*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Erik. said:


> I think the most important factor here isn't what WWE would be doing.
> 
> But the fact AEW is a 2 year old company.


I get that. Just interesting to think about.

Even the 2020 numbers AEW had were already really good, and 2021 built on that. 2022 will hopefully do the same.


----------



## VitoCorleoneX

Full Gear did around 145,000 i think.
All Outs success had to do with Punks return obviously and I dont think they are going to have a better buyrate this year than All Out 2021. Maybe 170-180 at best. A better buyrate would shock me and would prove once again that AEW is growing.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *@LifeInCattleClass
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


I hear overall viewers count more, doesn’t it?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I hear overall viewers count more, doesn’t it?


*Not according to you, the AEW Defense Force, or "sponsors." Based on the shit you've been saying for the last two years, the Bucks have once again tanked the ratings. Keep that same energy. *


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

Teemu™ said:


> A lot of that really goes to show what a poor draw CM Punk was. And it really shows how poor the indy midget workrate era has been. Glad The Rock saved some of those later numbers.


That does show Rock draws huge. That is for sure.


----------



## 3venflow

VitoCorleoneX said:


> Full Gear did around 145,000 i think.
> All Outs success had to do with Punks return obviously and I dont think they are going to have a better buyrate this year than All Out 2021. Maybe 170-180 at best. A better buyrate would shock me and would prove once again that AEW is growing.


I don't think All Out will ever be topped by AEW due to a). the Punk in-ring debut, b). the likelihood PPV will become even less relevant as time goes on and c). the likelihood that there won't be another major pro wrestling boom.

It's possible they could do it, but I think it'd have to be soon. I'd be surprised if PPV is even still a thing by 2030. It'll probably all be merged into streaming platforms.

If the money is right, AEW could replace traditional PPVs with HBO Max shows in the coming years, at least wherever HBO Max is available.


----------



## Teemu™

3venflow said:


> Elimination Chamber 2013 was headlined by Rock vs. Cena and only did a modest amount more than All Out. And PPV was more popular then, but already in decline.
> 
> Much like TV ratings, PPV buyrates must be taken in context of now vs. then. AEW is doing some really good numbers for its PPVs. That's what having a loyal hardcore base will do and why that base must not be compromised.


It was actually Punk vs. Rock. A rematch from the month prior.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Not according to you, the AEW Defense Force, or "sponsors." Based on the shit you've been saying for the last two years, the Bucks have once again tanked the ratings. Keep that same energy. *


but based on what you’ve been saying, overall matters

so… which part of the line do you want to be on for this discussion?

either admit demo matters most, and you can diss the Bucks / or say overall matters the most and you can give them props for a good overall quarter

i’ll be very excited to see which way you go


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> I don't think All Out will ever be topped by AEW due to a). the Punk in-ring debut, b). the likelihood PPV will become even less relevant as time goes on and c). the likelihood that there won't be another major pro wrestling boom.
> 
> It's possible they could do it, but I think it'd have to be soon. I'd be surprised if PPV is even still a thing by 2030. It'll probably all be merged into streaming platforms.
> 
> If the money is right, AEW could replace traditional PPVs with HBO Max shows in the coming years, at least wherever HBO Max is available.


All In 2 Supershow in a stadium has a chance for sure


----------



## TD Stinger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497271828376522752
Big live event announcement coming folks. You know what that means.........

ANOTHER CHICAGO SHOW. LET'S DO IT!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TD Stinger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497271828376522752
> Big live event announcement coming folks. You know what that means.........
> 
> ANOTHER CHICAGO SHOW. LET'S DO IT!


lol - i think they’re trolling


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but based on what you’ve been saying, overall matters
> 
> so… which part of the line do you want to be on for this discussion?
> 
> either admit demo matters most, and you can diss the Bucks / or say overall matters the most and you can give them props for a good overall quarter
> 
> i’ll be very excited to see which way you go


 *Don't deflect because your own logic just blew up in your face. If you want to weasel your way out of the Bucks tanking the ratings THAT YOU think are more important, you are admitting I'm right about total viewership being superior from this point on. Choose wisely.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Don't deflect because your own logic just blew up in your face. If you want to weasel your way out of the Bucks tanking the ratings THAT YOU think are more important, you are admitting I'm right about total viewership being superior from this point on. Choose wisely.*


no, i’m fine with the Demo being the most important - agreed?


----------



## DammitChrist

The Young Bucks were among the multiple names who got the highest overall viewership this week.

You'd love to see it


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DammitChrist said:


> The Young Bucks were among the multiple names who got the highest overall viewership this week.
> 
> You'd love to see it


love to see that coveted highest viewership for the Bucks for sure


----------



## Tell it like it is

DammitChrist said:


> The Young Bucks were among the multiple names who got the highest overall viewership this week.
> 
> You'd love to see it


That obtr87 idiot must be furious. MF hates The Elite with a passion.


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> love to see that coveted highest viewership for the Bucks for sure





Tell it like it is said:


> That obtr87 idiot must be furious. MF hates The Elite with a passion.


Yep, for the record, it warms my heart to see Kyle O’Reilly being watched by a much bigger audience now too


----------



## 3venflow

The Dub hitting the west coast.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497552312155492353


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> The Dub hitting the west coast.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497552312155492353


sold out arenas, here we go again

good to give the east coast a break


----------



## Erik.

Was really hoping it was a Canadian tour more than anything.

Though it would make more sense if it’s some Cali & West Coast shows following Double or Nothing since they’ll be out there. Really interested to see what AEW is able to draw out there after not being anywhere near the west coast since May of 2019 for their debut.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Do we know what a west-coast show will do to broadcast times - if anything?


----------



## Dr. Middy

A west coast tour is LONG overdue, since they have kinda exhausted some of their markets on the east coast with how often they've been around to specific cities. Like as much as I love Chicago and their crowds, they can stand to not have a show for some time. I think AEW has gone to that well a little too much now.


----------



## 3venflow

Yes, they need to diversify and build some new 'bases'. For example, Dynamite in Jacksonville this coming Wednesday was only at 1,400 sold as of Thursday night. It's their de facto home territory, but has been milked to death. Obviously that 1,400 will grow but they did over 3,000 there last time for New Year's Smash. Some of the other upcoming shows are doing good advances though and last week's Dynamite/Rampage in CT did around 6,000 by bell time.


----------



## holy

Ultimo Duggan said:


> *Your polite disappointment in the surprise is much appreciated*. We can disagree without burying a wrestler’s ability or appearance.
> 
> Was there someone else that you would have preferred over Keith Lee? He was the most mentioned man for the spot for several days leading up to that Wednesday. The next most mentioned name was Jay White and he debuted just before Lee that night.
> 
> Tony K’s problematic phrasing notwithstanding those were the two most likely debuts that night. Jeff Hardy is obviously coming but he isn’t free until around Revolution’s show date.
> 
> With Keith Lee’s skill set and size there wasn’t anyone available that I would probably want more in AEW excluding certain ROH or former NXT lady talent. TK might have botched his own definition of a door but he never mentioned a tag team, the current ROH Champ or several women formerly of NXT.


Hey! Thank you! 😊

To be honest, there isn't anyone I could think of off the top of my head that I really want to see head to AEW. There was a time when I wanted Jeff Hardy there (probably when he was wrestling Elias for no rhyme or reason every week) but after he was featured quite strongly on WWE TV in recent months, including a likely setup of him vs Roman Reigns, I wanted him to stay in WWE.

I just feel Tony shouldn't have made an announcement at all: just have Keith Lee come out as a surprise.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan

holy said:


> Hey! Thank you! 😊
> 
> To be honest, there isn't anyone I could think of off the top of my head that I really want to see head to AEW. There was a time when I wanted Jeff Hardy there (probably when he was wrestling Elias for no rhyme or reason every week) but after he was featured quite strongly on WWE TV in recent months, including a likely setup of him vs Roman Reigns, I wanted him to stay in WWE.
> 
> I just feel Tony shouldn't have made an announcement at all: just have Keith Lee come out as a surprise.


Whoever runs TNT & TBS told Tony Khan to announce or promote new TV debuts for AEW. They REALLY did not like Sting as a surprise at all. TV execs could ideally promote major signings and monetize TK’s fever dreams.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

3venflow said:


> Yes, they need to diversify and build some new 'bases'. For example, Dynamite in Jacksonville this coming Wednesday was only at 1,400 sold as of Thursday night. It's their de facto home territory, but has been milked to death. Obviously that 1,400 will grow but they did over 3,000 there last time for New Year's Smash. Some of the other upcoming shows are doing good advances though and last week's Dynamite/Rampage in CT did around 6,000 by bell time.




AEW came around at a bad time with the pandemic starting soon after. I can’t blame them for wanting to mostly stay on the East Coast outside of certain events. With most of the capacity and mask mandates ending over the next few months, it would be good timing to hit up the major west coast cities for both major companies.


----------



## holy

Ultimo Duggan said:


> Whoever runs TNT & TBS told Tony Khan to announce or promote new TV debuts for AEW. They REALLY did not like Sting as a surprise at all. TV execs could ideally promote major signings and monetize TK’s fever dreams.


It's fair that the networks want Tony to promote in advance, but a simple tweet from Tony could do the trick for that. Something like "stay tuned to see who I bring in tonight  " on the actual day of Dynamite when Keith is gonna appear.

Promoting it days in advance as if it's some next-level signing helps no one if the promoted star isn't even a huge star in the first place!


----------



## Erik.

holy said:


> It's fair that the networks want Tony to promote in advance, but a simple tweet from Tony could do the trick for that. Something like "stay tuned to see who I bring in tonight  " on the actual day of Dynamite when Keith is gonna appear.
> 
> Promoting it days in advance as if it's some next-level signing helps no one if the promoted star isn't even a huge star in the first place!


AEWs knows its fanbase though.

They don't pretend to be at the top end of pop culture and mainstream media. They know wrestling fans watch their show and wrestling fans know who Keith Lee is.

Khan is a wrestling fan. Like you and me. He has his opinions like you and me. If he happens to rate Keith Lee highly and wanted to promote the shit out of him, that's his deal.

You either take what he says with a pinch of salt when he makes his announcements. Or as a wrestling fan, you realise he's going to deliver things wresrling fans are aware of.


----------



## Prized Fighter

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498312126171168768
It is about damn time.


----------



## 3venflow

This is so weird if he's joining WWE.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498314305711874050


----------



## Erik.

That's awesome

Detroit is a great wrestling town and always has been!


----------



## Prized Fighter

Erik. said:


> That's awesome
> 
> Detroit is a great wrestling town and always has been!


It really is. We have been asking for this since the inception of AEW. Little Caesars is a good sized venue too. We could easily get 10,000+.


----------



## Teemu™

Prized Fighter said:


> It really is. We have been asking for this since the inception of AEW. Little Caesars is a good sized venue too. We could easily get 10,000+.


We?


----------



## Prized Fighter

Teemu™ said:


> We?


I am referring to the people in Michigan, which would include myself. There is a passionate wrestling fanbase here.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW hits the west coast with a show at the Toyota Arena (Ontario, California) on June 3rd. It'll seat ca. 8,000 most likely. This will be a live Rampage.

Announced by the Bucks on BTE.


----------



## Sad Panda

Hell yeah. It’s going to be nice for AEW to branch off into different sections of the countries. Those are going to be some hot crowds and I’m all for it


----------



## 3venflow

Woof, here's another and this is a real big one at The Forum on June 1st.


----------



## One Shed

3venflow said:


> Woof, here's another and this is a real big one at The Forum on June 1st.
> 
> View attachment 117638


Hoping they finally make it out my way in the desert soon too. Glad to see them going out west.


----------



## Cydewonder

^ ohhh finally they hit the West Coast, gonna try to go to Dynamite at the Forum. Saw the Strokes there a few months ago and it was sold out..I'm expecting this will probably sell out quick too'


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I hate that they put the Britt Rosa contract signing on the show that no one watches, because it was actually good. 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498405066855886848*


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498408844569022467


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

The Forum's gonna be a tough one. IIRC the only place to do really well there was WCW in the late 90s....and maybe the WWF in the 80s...I think Meltzer said last time WWE went there in the mid 2010s they drew 8K or something.





Here's a match from one of their shows. It was an internet broadcast PPV thing and is now considered lost media. At least the fan cam exists.


----------



## 3venflow

It's been a while, yeah. WCW did really well there in '99 though. Wiki lists 'half bowl' capacity as 8,000 - is that the setup AEW will use?


----------



## Cydewonder

Went to NXT wars games at Staples the sat before Summerslam a few years back and it was sold out if irc. If AEW has the same crossover audience - the Forum should be an easy sell out, it's a lil smaller than Staples.

17k for concerts - maybe a lil less than 17k for the wrestling ring set up

Both shows I've been to there The XX and The Strokes were complete sell outs. (Pre covid and post covid)


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

3venflow said:


> It's been a while, yeah. WCW did really well there in '99 though. Wiki lists 'half bowl' capacity as 8,000 - is that the setup AEW will use?
> 
> View attachment 117640


I would assume so. It'd be great if they got even that.

Gotta give Tony props for running WCW centric buildings...that's something I'd do if I had my own live action TEW.


----------



## Tell it like it is

3venflow said:


> Woof, here's another and this is a real big one at The Forum on June 1st.
> 
> View attachment 117638


My time is now boys to experience seeing AEW live. Might go to both Dynamite and Rampage since is only a 1hr drive to LA and 30 minute to Ontario.


----------



## Sad Panda

Tell it like it is said:


> My time is now boys to experience seeing AEW live. Might go to both Dynamite and Rampage since is only a 1hr drive to LA and 30 minute to Ontario.


Definitely do it. You know you’re gonna get one hell of show as well with it being their debut on the west coast.


----------



## omaroo

Hope the West Coast shows are a major success.

Awesome to see them coming to the west coast.


----------



## Prosper

Hopefully they book the Staples Center in L.A. at some point this year. Would be massive. Holds 20K, a capacity that they slightly surpassed at Arthur Ashe for Grand Slam.


----------



## The One

omaroo said:


> Hope the West Coast shows are a major success.
> 
> Awesome to see them coming to the west coast.


Facts!


----------



## Teemu™

Poor west coast. I lived in California, I'm emotionally attached to California. Their economy is shit, everything's gone down the drain, and now they're getting AEW on top of everything else. Will the pain ever stop?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Teemu™ said:


> Poor west coast. I lived in California, I'm emotionally attached to California. Their economy is shit, everything's gone down the drain, and now they're getting AEW on top of everything else. Will the pain ever stop?


but you moved to Finland? must be nice over there now?


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Teemu™ said:


> Poor west coast. I lived in California, I'm emotionally attached to California. Their economy is shit, everything's gone down the drain, and now they're getting AEW on top of everything else. Will the pain ever stop?


How'd you end up in Finland of all places?


----------



## Teemu™

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but you moved to Finland? must be nice over there now?





GNKenny said:


> How'd you end up in Finland of all places?


Oh, nah. Finland is where I'm from originally. I just lived in California for a little bit a few years ago. And @LifeInCattleClass it's a bit tense here right now, not gonna lie.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Teemu™ said:


> Oh, nah. Finland is where I'm from originally. I just lived in California for a little bit a few years ago. And @LifeInCattleClass it's a bit tense here right now, not gonna lie.


Miss anything from the states or are you perfectly happy being home?

Edit: rejected!


----------



## omaroo

Teemu™ said:


> Poor west coast. I lived in California, I'm emotionally attached to California. Their economy is shit, everything's gone down the drain, and now they're getting AEW on top of everything else. Will the pain ever stop?


How are you not banned troll?


----------



## Teemu™

omaroo said:


> How are you not banned troll?


¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Teemu™ said:


> Oh, nah. Finland is where I'm from originally. I just lived in California for a little bit a few years ago. And @LifeInCattleClass it's a bit tense here right now, not gonna lie.


yeah mate, I feel you

good luck


----------



## Teemu™

GNKenny said:


> Miss anything from the states or are you perfectly happy being home?
> 
> Edit: rejected!


Oops! Missed your post, sorry. Well, I had friends there. That pretty much. Online is no substitute for face to face. It's definitely a different culture; US is more outgoing and social, whereas in Finland, we did social distancing before it was cool. I see value in both. But I'm Finnish, so this culture is my home for sure. I liked California, I lived in northern California, but unfortunately, it's also kinda in the shitter right now. A good friend of mine lives in LA, and the cost of living there is brutal. Also, as a health and nutrition enthusiast, it was way harder to find healthy food to eat in the US. We have pretty accessible, high quality food in Finland.


----------



## Erik.

Every wrestling show since last Friday has been down on the ratings. Mostly due to the news with the atrocities currently going on in Ukraine. 

So it wouldn't surprise me to see it down this week. I think anything above 900k would be good. Then again, they did sub 900 just a few weeks ago.


----------



## Mr316

Embarrassing.


----------



## Teemu™

Mr316 said:


> View attachment 117860
> 
> 
> Embarrassing.


This company is dead in five years. Enjoy it while you can. The shine is wearing off.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499425222990118919

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TD Stinger

Revolution will be sold out because of course it will be. But between Dynamite last night, Rampage tomorrow, and Dynamite next week, all I know is AEW needs to get out of Florida and stay out for awhile.


----------



## omaroo

Teemu™ said:


> This company is dead in five years. Enjoy it while you can. The shine is wearing off.


Can you just fuck off already!!

AEW aint dying and aint going anywhere unfortunately. Sorry for the bad news.


----------



## 3venflow

@Mr316 Yes, Florida is largely run dry, though the PPV is sold out. Also:


They sold 2,700 tickets on day one for BoTB in April.
They've sold 3,200 tickets for Rampage tomorrow despite no card until last night.
They've sold 3,500 tickets for Dynamite in Pittsburgh on April 20.
They've sold almost 5,000 tickets for Dynamite on March 16th in San Antonio.
They've sold 5,000 tickets for Dynamite in Boston on April 6th.
In general, ticket sales are as consistent as at most points and better than 2019/pre-pandemic 2020.

Now that you've done another 180, you're cherrypicking the bad like you'd have been cherrypicking the good not long ago.

Also, what happened to this?









I’m never complaining about AEW ever again


AEW is a success. There’s no other way to put it. The numbers are there. Ticket sales are through the roof. Over 1 million people watched the show last Wednesday despite being in an awful timeslot for an entire month beforehand. I’m very confused about many of the stuff they’re doing but...




www.wrestlingforum.com


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> @Mr316 Yes, Florida is largely run dry, though the PPV is sold out. Also:
> 
> 
> They sold 2,700 tickets on day one for BoTB in April.
> They've sold 3,200 tickets for Rampage tomorrow despite no card until last night.
> They've sold 3,500 tickets for Dynamite in Pittsburgh on April 20.
> They've sold almost 5,000 tickets for Dynamite on March 16th in San Antonio.
> They've sold 5,000 tickets for Dynamite in Boston on April 6th.
> In general, ticket sales are as consistent as at most points and better than 2019/pre-pandemic 2020.
> 
> Now that you've done another 180, you're cherrypicking the bad like you'd have been cherrypicking the good not long ago.
> 
> Also, what happened to this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m never complaining about AEW ever again
> 
> 
> AEW is a success. There’s no other way to put it. The numbers are there. Ticket sales are through the roof. Over 1 million people watched the show last Wednesday despite being in an awful timeslot for an entire month beforehand. I’m very confused about many of the stuff they’re doing but...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com


Dude has become a meme, a troll and in turn a laughing stock.

Let him be, he's harmless.


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> @Mr316 Yes, Florida is largely run dry, though the PPV is sold out. Also:
> 
> 
> They sold 2,700 tickets on day one for BoTB in April.
> They've sold 3,200 tickets for Rampage tomorrow despite no card until last night.
> They've sold 3,500 tickets for Dynamite in Pittsburgh on April 20.
> They've sold almost 5,000 tickets for Dynamite on March 16th in San Antonio.
> They've sold 5,000 tickets for Dynamite in Boston on April 6th.
> In general, ticket sales are as consistent as at most points and better than 2019/pre-pandemic 2020.
> 
> Now that you've done another 180, you're cherrypicking the bad like you'd have been cherrypicking the good not long ago.
> 
> Also, what happened to this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m never complaining about AEW ever again
> 
> 
> AEW is a success. There’s no other way to put it. The numbers are there. Ticket sales are through the roof. Over 1 million people watched the show last Wednesday despite being in an awful timeslot for an entire month beforehand. I’m very confused about many of the stuff they’re doing but...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com


 Hes become a sad troll like the other guy above.

AEW is a successful as its ever been and will be moreso in the future.

Wonder what the haters will be saying when they land the HBO max deal and big money deal for dynamite and rampage down the line


----------



## Prosper

omaroo said:


> Hes become a sad troll like the other guy above.
> 
> AEW is a successful as its ever been and will be moreso in the future.
> 
> Wonder what the haters will be saying when they land the HBO max deal and big money deal for dynamite and rampage down the line


"They can't even hit 600 million subscribers in a year what a failure!"


----------



## Sad Panda

The thing that’s frustrating is fans of AEW are constantly disparaged, but the critics, specifically on this board are awful. Constantly having to defend every little detail and then being called out because you get defensive about your opinion of the product you enjoy.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499491199882772499

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Erik.

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499491199882772499
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What are we meant to argue about now!?


----------



## DammitChrist

Yep, the ratings for this week are delayed apparently.

I except them to take a dip though.



Sad Panda said:


> The thing that’s frustrating is fans of AEW are constantly disparaged, but the critics, specifically on this board are awful. Constantly having to defend every little detail and then being called out because you get defensive about your opinion of the product you enjoy.


How do you folks even do it? 

I just mainly keep up with the stickied threads to save myself time.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*They ain't gon like this one 🙃

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499503016373891077*


----------



## Sad Panda

@The Legit Lioness 

Good for Jade. No matter how green she is, there is not a single wrestler on that roster that has more cross over appeal than her. She screams box office star. My kids for instance absolutely love her because she legit looks like a super hero. 

Aesthetically she’s absolutely stunning as well.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Sad Panda said:


> @The Legit Lioness
> 
> Good for Jade. No matter how green she is, there is not a single wrestler on that roster that has more cross over appeal than her. She screams box office star. My kids for instance absolutely love her because she legit looks like a super hero.
> 
> Aesthetically she’s absolutely stunning as well.


*How dare you agree with me?! Now we have to wait 20 hours to argue. *


----------



## DammitChrist

I just found this tweet on my Twitter logs:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499220659116785667
Edit:

Let's just remember this just in case tomorrow


----------



## Sad Panda

The Legit Lioness said:


> *How dare you agree with me?! Now we have to wait 20 hours to argue. *


Jade has a way in bringing all warm blooded males together to kneel at her throne. God bless her.


----------



## omaroo

DammitChrist said:


> I just found this tweet on my Twitter logs:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499220659116785667
> Edit:
> 
> Let's just remember this just in case tomorrow


If they manage to bag impact wrestling and its library that would truly be the icing on the cake lol. 

I have a feeling anthem will sell up sooner rather than later.


----------



## Prosper

Sad Panda said:


> Jade has a way in bringing all warm blooded males together to kneel at her throne. God bless her.


What's crazy is that I was never really into overly muscular chicks, I always thought it was too much.......until Jade Cargill came around.


----------



## Elitest

omaroo said:


> If they manage to bag impact wrestling and its library that would truly be the icing on the cake lol.
> 
> I have a feeling anthem will sell up sooner rather than later.


it's almost smart to sell for massive bucks like ROH have and re-start as a new company altogether. starting from zero with tv channels might be the struggle though


----------



## Aedubya

Guessing a 1.1


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Sad Panda said:


> @The Legit Lioness
> 
> Good for Jade. No matter how green she is, there is not a single wrestler on that roster that has more cross over appeal than her. She screams box office star. My kids for instance absolutely love her because she legit looks like a super hero.
> 
> Aesthetically she’s absolutely stunning as well.


Jade, Darby, Jungle Boy and Wardlow has the most 'cross-over' potential IMO

with Jade and Darby topping the list


----------



## RapShepard

Predicting between a 30-30,000,000 viewers. Give or take a few


----------



## Erik.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499747351287812105
Can't say I am surprised considering what's been dominating the news over the last 7 days.

This also means that the only wrestling show over the last 7 days that has actually increased in viewership was Rampage incredibly, then again I guess if you're up and inside at 10pm on a Friday night, you'd probably be watching wrestling and not the news.

But that is actually better than what I was expecting, especially as two weeks ago they were sub 900,000. Let's hope the fall out of Revolution can see them get over a million again next week however who knows what's going to happen in the world by then, it could be news dominating for a while yet..

This Week - 966,000 - (.35)

Last Week - 1,010,000 - (.40)

Last Year - 934,000 - (.35)

- - - - -

In comparison with viewership over the last 7 days due to the news:

Rampage actually gained 2,000 viewers last Friday
Smackdown lost 59,000 viewers last Friday
Raw lost 102,000 viewers this past Monday

And as we see, Dynamite lost 44,000 this week.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I love that there is always an excuse. AEW's ratings dropped because of the war this time, lol.

It always goes up and down, we don't need the excuses.


----------



## the_hound

tony khan to make announcement tonight on rampage for the debut of fed bad guy on wednesday


----------



## 3venflow

Chip Chipperson said:


> I love that there is always an excuse. AEW's ratings dropped because of the war this time, lol.
> 
> It always goes up and down, we don't need the excuses.


Well, Smackdown (since Dec 24), NXT (since Jan 13) and RAW (since Jan 17 on USA) did their lowest viewerships in a while too. So something seems to be affecting the wrestling. Tucker had 1m more viewers than last Wednesday, The Five 1.6m more viewers.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Not a great number, especially for a go home show. However at least still up this week year year. So a mixed number. Could’ve been worse.


----------



## Jaxon

as the numbers go up and down, does anyone think this will have any effects on the TV deals next time?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I'm not going hard this week. The war is hurting all ratings. I will be shitting all over the Young Bucks and that awful clusterfuck Battle Royal when that chart drops though.*


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499754672671936517

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Outlaw91

Erik. said:


> Can't say I am surprised considering what's been dominating the news over the last 7 days.


Yeah, every American wrestling fan can't wait to see what's new in Ukraine, especially in those 2 hours when their favourite wrestling show is live on TV.


----------



## Prosper

Not bad honestly, all things considered. I'd still love for that demo to stay above a .40 though.


----------



## Mr316

Terrible number considering it was the final show before the PPV.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Lol Tony Khans big announcement couldn’t even get AEWDynamite above 1 million viewers.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

FrankieDs316 said:


> Lol Tony Khans big announcement couldn’t even get AEWDynamite above 1 million viewers.


Look mate, it's because of the war, alright?


----------



## RainmakerV2

They need the title picture to change dramatically. Cole and Hangman cornered by the dark order as your final segment to a go home. Wtf.


----------



## JasmineAEW

Does anyone know whether “Double or Nothing” is already sold out? We got our tickets via presale yesterday, but I checked this morning to see if better seats (floor) might be available, and the ticket site said no more seats are available. If true, do they usually open up more floor seats later? This will be my first live AEW event!


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> They need the title picture to change dramatically. Cole and Hangman cornered by the dark order as your final segment to a go home. Wtf.


It won't last past Revolution. We will probably move on to Hangman vs Punk or Hangman vs MJF. 



JasmineAEW said:


> Does anyone know whether “Double or Nothing” is already sold out? We got our tickets via presale yesterday, but I checked this morning to see if better seats (floor) might be available, and the ticket site said no more seats are available. If true, do they usually open up more floor seats later? This will be my first live AEW event!


DON and All Out are "un-officially" their biggest events, so I'd be pumped if I was going. Usually they do open more seats closer to the date though.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Prosper said:


> It won't last past Revolution. We will probably move on to Hangman vs Punk or Hangman vs MJF.
> 
> 
> 
> DON and All Out are "un-officially" their biggest events, so I'd be pumped if I was going. Usually they do open more seats closer to the date though.



Which means more Dork Order around the world title. The title needs to come off Hangman. Period.


----------



## JasmineAEW

Prosper said:


> It won't last past Revolution. We will probably move on to Hangman vs Punk or Hangman vs MJF.
> 
> 
> 
> DON and All Out are "un-officially" their biggest events, so I'd be pumped if I was going. Usually they do open more seats closer to the date though.


Thank you! We have pretty good seats for Dynamite, Rampage and DON, so we’re happy. Still, I was hoping to get tix in the first two rows or something like that. I’ll keep my eyes peeled.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

RainmakerV2 said:


> They need the title picture to change dramatically. Cole and Hangman cornered by the dark order as your final segment to a go home. Wtf.


This is by far the weakest build to a world title match they've had so far. This is like 2009 WWE US title tier build. 

I guess they'll assume everyone wants to see the match. Eh.


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> They need the title picture to change dramatically. Cole and Hangman cornered by the dark order as your final segment to a go home. Wtf.


I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone suck as much as I think fucking Adam Cole sucks. And I am absolutely one of those guys who used to laugh at certain people for discussing wrestlers’ size.

But goddamn.

Imagine Allen Iverson getting down low, posting up against Shaquille O’Neal, and he actually backs him down, pivots, and dunks in Shaq’s face. You’d immediately think about how goddamn dumb is it and know that Shaq just let him.

That is the equivalent to seeing Adam Cole wrestle.


----------



## DammitChrist

Adam Page and Adam Cole both belong around the main event scene.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chip Chipperson said:


> Look mate, it's because of the war, alright?


*All wrestling ratings dropped significantly this week tbf.*


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Legit Lioness said:


> *All wrestling ratings dropped significantly this week tbf.*


So what? Wrestling ratings go up and down all the time. If you have a good enough show people aren't going to miss it for war coverage.

Who the fuck is sitting by the TV looking for updates on the war anyway?


----------



## Mr316

They had a 40 minute battle royal with a bunch of jobbers in the ring and people wonder why the ratings are down? 😂


----------



## RainmakerV2

Mr316 said:


> They had a 40 minute battle royal with a bunch of jobbers in the ring and people wonder why the ratings are down? 😂


Yup


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chip Chipperson said:


> So what? Wrestling ratings go up and down all the time. If you have a good enough show people aren't going to miss it for war coverage.
> 
> Who the fuck is sitting by the TV looking for updates on the war anyway?


*Everyone. Literally everyone. 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498408844569022467*


----------



## Ultimo Duggan

GNKenny said:


> This is by far the weakest build to a world title match they've had so far. This is like 2009 WWE US title tier build.
> 
> I guess they'll assume everyone wants to see the match. Eh.


Double or Nothing in 2021 left the World Title until the last Rampage before. That was when they did a triple threat for the first time. 

Revolution also didn’t book the barbed wire match for the title until maybe three weeks to go until DoN

All Out 2021 had Christian Cage challenge Kenny after winning the Impact Title. I wasn’t here then but it wasn’t exactly anticipated by eagerly awaiting fans. 

It was going to be Hangman though. They built him up. He was the real deal in eyes of the fans. Real life is pretty real sometimes.

Full Gear 2021 had its title match decided with very little time left to book the match. Hangman was destined to win. AEW was able to finally make the Omega vs Hangman match, the right man won and he had a fine first week as champ. The build to Archer challenging would have been much better if he hadn’t come off nearly dying (his words) weeks before Full Gear. Tony K thought Archer would come back hot.

He did not…

The match seemed to exceed expectations pf many. If Brian Cage was around and active he would have made a perfect first challenger. Cage vs Page have really good chemistry as a matchup. IF Cage re-signed there might be time to rebuild him as a threat. It wouldn’t even need to be a PPV match. Cage is not a favourite of mine either. If he is coming back they may as well get the easy defences booked in the first half of Hangman’s title reign.

Page can’t have more than three title matches left.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Pretty good rating considering the trash they gave us. Go home show? Yes in a literal way for the audience.


----------



## La Parka

People act like the war is being streamed in 4K and has people watching like the hunger games


----------



## Prosper

La Parka said:


> People act like the war is being streamed in 4K and has people watching like the hunger games


I mean people who still have cable in 2022 generally lean towards the older audience so its not surprising that they are watching the news, I don't think they're looking it up on their phones like we do for the most part.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

La Parka said:


> People act like the war is being streamed in 4K and has people watching like the hunger games


*I'm the last person to make excuses for Tony Khan's clown fiesta, but the news dominating television viewership is an undeniable fact.*


----------



## VitoCorleoneX

33,000 people didnt tune in to AEW. 🤧
Aew sucks. 🤧🤧🤧


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

Chip Chipperson said:


> So what? Wrestling ratings go up and down all the time. If you have a good enough show people aren't going to miss it for war coverage.
> 
> Who the fuck is sitting by the TV looking for updates on the war anyway?


Tbf, Putin is a much bigger heel and this is a more intriguing storyline than anything in wrestling right now


----------



## 3venflow

DoN is a $1m gate after just one day of sales.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499860154212401154


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> DoN is a $1m gate after just one day of sales.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499860154212401154


That's incredible!! 

Could they get 20,000 at the venue?


----------



## omaroo

Also compared to revolution and full gear I feel DON and All Out are the two biggest events every year for AEW.


----------



## VitoCorleoneX

I hope they do a show at a stadium with 30.000 fans this year. All Out would be nice.


----------



## 3venflow

T-Mobile Arena is 20,000 capacity but with the stage and all, I imagine it could be a lower capacity (unless floor seats can offset that?). WWE drew 14,150 there for MITB '16 (where Moxley won the title) and I don't know if that was a complete sell out but might be an idea of the range they could get. RAW in 2017 did 7,000 there.

WrestleTix might have some info soon.

To be honest, I thought Grand Slam was AEW's first million dollar gate but maybe it fell just short.


----------



## Erik.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499862753040691201
More than any live gate WCW done

Eric Bischoff won't be happy.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

3venflow said:


> T-Mobile Arena is 20,000 capacity but with the stage and all, I imagine it could be a lower capacity (unless floor seats can offset that?). WWE drew 14,150 there for MITB '16 (where Moxley won the title) and I don't know if that weas a complete sell out but might be an idea of the range they could get. RAW in 2017 did 7,000 there.
> 
> WrestleTix might have some info soon.
> 
> To be honest, I thought Grand Slam was AEW's first million dollar gate but maybe it fell just short.


You could do a stripped down stage and sell more tickets easily if the demand calls for it.


----------



## bdon

Ultimo Duggan said:


> Double or Nothing in 2021 left the World Title until the last Rampage before. That was when they did a triple threat for the first time.
> 
> Revolution also didn’t book the barbed wire match for the title until maybe three weeks to go until DoN
> 
> All Out 2021 had Christian Cage challenge Kenny after winning the Impact Title. I wasn’t here then but it wasn’t exactly anticipated by eagerly awaiting fans.
> 
> It was going to be Hangman though. They built him up. He was the real deal in eyes of the fans. Real life is pretty real sometimes.
> 
> Full Gear 2021 had its title match decided with very little time left to book the match. Hangman was destined to win. AEW was able to finally make the Omega vs Hangman match, the right man won and he had a fine first week as champ. The build to Archer challenging would have been much better if he hadn’t come off nearly dying (his words) weeks before Full Gear. Tony K thought Archer would come back hot.
> 
> He did not…
> 
> The match seemed to exceed expectations pf many. If Brian Cage was around and active he would have made a perfect first challenger. Cage vs Page have really good chemistry as a matchup. IF Cage re-signed there might be time to rebuild him as a threat. It wouldn’t even need to be a PPV match. Cage is not a favourite of mine either. If he is coming back they may as well get the easy defences booked in the first half of Hangman’s title reign.
> 
> Page can’t have more than three title matches left.


The world title doesn’t hinge on great matches. The world title is supposed to be about the story of the Champ’s struggle to keep it against the challengers’ journey to take it.

Only Jericho received that. Kenny to a lesser extent, but that ball was dropped due to Page deciding to take a fucking hiatus in the middle of his biggest program.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

That's great for AEW. Guess Meltzer will have the scalper newz...hopefully it's not too bad.


Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499862753040691201
> More than any live gate WCW done
> 
> Eric Bischoff won't be happy.


1.5 million (adjusted for inflation) on a Monday for the weekly TV show is still very impressive. Nitro was in stadiums!

Well that is until they screwed it all up a few months later. Shoulda pushed the West Texas R3dnecks harder if ya ask me.


----------



## Erik.

GNKenny said:


> That's great for AEW. Guess Meltzer will have the scalper newz...hopefully it's not too bad.
> 
> 1.5 million (adjusted for inflation) on a Monday for the weekly TV show is still very impressive. Nitro was in stadiums!
> 
> Well that is until they screwed it all up a few months later. Shoulda pushed the West Texas R3dnecks harder if ya ask me.


Absolutely.

Getting 38,000 alone for Nitro for that gate was incredible.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Edit: brainfart lol. I was thinking of the New Year's Evil special show, forgot about the other ones somehow


----------



## Ultimo Duggan

bdon said:


> The world title doesn’t hinge on great matches. The world title is supposed to be about the story of the Champ’s struggle to keep it against the challengers’ journey to take it.
> 
> Only Jericho received that. Kenny to a lesser extent, but that ball was dropped due to Page deciding to take a fucking hiatus in the middle of his biggest program.


Nobody will fault Page from taking that time off. 

The World Title should be the easiest program to book. It often doesn’t need extra angles and storylines.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Chip Chipperson said:


> Look mate, it's because of the war, alright?


Tony Khan needs to challenge Putin to a match!!!


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499824226550882309

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

Dude, how does he misspell “announcement” 3 times?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499824226550882309
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's what I did tbh.

I read Tony was making the announcement first, tuned in, made the announcement, he said Bryan Danielson Vs Christopher Daniels and despite loving both guys I knew it'd be stupidly long so I tuned out. Turns out they went 11 minutes meaning the segment probably ran 15 so probably for the best that I gave it a miss.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

* Cluster f*** battle Royal plummets viewers to the surprise of no one who's been f* paying attention to the s* tag team Cluster f* bullsh* having a negative impact every week. I'm sick of this s*.*


----------



## DammitChrist

It’s great to see the Young Bucks, ReDRagon, and FTR take part of the higher quarterly segments.

Many folks were certainly more interested in their Tag Battle Royal more than most of the 2nd hour for this week.

Give the Young Bucks an ReDRagon more TV time with extra tag wrestling


----------



## Trivette

Hoping AEW gets in on the streaming game sooner than later. Casual fans, or even some more dedicated ones, don't have $70 a month for YouTube Plus or Hulu, let alone the $50 for the PPVs.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499824226550882309
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*@#BadNewsSanta it's time to take the L on Hangman breh.*


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> It’s great to see the Young Bucks, ReDRagon, and FTR take part of the higher quarterly segments.
> 
> Many folks were certainly more interested in their Tag Battle Royal more than most of the 2nd hour for this week.
> 
> Give the Young Bucks an ReDRagon more TV time with extra tag wrestling


87k people tuned out during the battle royal (from the first break until 9pm).
56k people tuned out in the last quarter from the previous.
But go on making shit up about how this is positive and they need even more time.


----------



## DammitChrist

CovidFan said:


> 87k people tuned out during the battle royal (from the first break until 9pm).
> 56k people tuned out in the last quarter from the previous.
> But go on making shit up about how this is positive and they need even more time.


It still beat most of the quarterly segments in the 2nd hour though, my dude 

The Young Bucks and FTR still had more relatively positive impact for this week


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> It still beat most of the quarterly segments in the 2nd hour though, my dude
> 
> The Young Bucks and FTR still had more relatively positive impact for this week


My dude, I didn't dispute that first part. Of course they beat the second hour. The second hour didn't have a huge lead in and Daniel Bryanson. I decided to let you have that but if you're going to continue to try to be right, be real and admit that any segment would've been just as high because of that. If you can't you're just disingenuously arguing. Some other acts would've actually retained viewers as well 

edited my post about the second part because I didn't realize that you admitted ReD drove viewers away.


----------



## DammitChrist

CovidFan said:


> My dude, I didn't dispute that first part. Of course they beat the second hour. The second hour didn't have a huge lead in and Daniel Bryanson. I decided to let you have that but if you're going to continue to try to be right, be real and admit that any segment would've been just as high because of that. If you can't you're just disingenuously arguing. Some other acts would've actually retained viewers as well
> 
> As for the second part, I proved that they didn't. You're just spewing shit over the interwebs because you hate LB (and others, but mostly LB) being right.


Dude, if he was ‘right’ (which he’s obviously not), then the Young Bucks would’ve had the lowest overall viewership for any of their quarterly segments; which they didn’t yet again to contrary belief.

You’re spot on about the 2nd hour not having a strong lead-in compared to previous weeks though (especially since the tag division is notches below starting that hour with a main eventer 

Edit:

As for ReDRagon, they were both in a higher quarterly segment and in that unfortunately low final segment; so I’d say they broke even this week


----------



## Soul Rex

DammitChrist said:


> Adam Page and Adam Cole both belong around the main event scene.


Dude you don't believe Adam Cole belongs in the ME, you don't believe that shit and you won't fool me.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

CovidFan said:


> My dude, I didn't dispute that first part. Of course they beat the second hour. The second hour didn't have a huge lead in and Daniel Bryanson. I decided to let you have that but if you're going to continue to try to be right, be real and admit that any segment would've been just as high because of that. If you can't you're just disingenuously arguing. Some other acts would've actually retained viewers as well
> 
> As for the second part, I proved that they didn't. You're just spewing shit over the interwebs because you hate LB (and others, but mostly LB) being right.


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, if he was ‘right’ (which he’s obviously not), then the Young Bucks would’ve had the lowest overall viewership for any of their quarterly segments; which they didn’t yet again to contrary belief.


How can it even be a belief if it's a fact on a sheet? Of course they didn't have the lowest overall viewership because and I can't believe I have to say this again but: they had a monster lead in. Had that battle royal been in the second quarter of the second hour through the end, the show would've had 500k by the end. It was (as LB said) a clusterfuck. It was fucking terrible. I can't believe they even thought such a long midcard match was a good idea.



> You’re spot on about the 2nd hour not having a strong lead-in compared to previous weeks though (especially since the tag division is notches below starting that hour with a main eventer


You don't understand what I was saying and I explained it in my last paragraph.

But, I unquestionably proved this idiotic statement completely wrong which was my entire point so I'm done going round and round with you:


> Give the Young Bucks an ReDRagon more TV time with extra tag wrestling


They need *less *time.


----------



## DammitChrist

CovidFan said:


> How can it even be a belief if it's a fact on a sheet? Of course they didn't have the lowest overall viewership because and I can't believe I have to say this again but: they had a monster lead in. Had that battle royal been in the second quarter of the second hour through the end, the show would've had 500k by the end. It was (as LB said) a clusterfuck. It was fucking terrible. I can't believe they even thought such a long midcard match was a good idea.
> 
> You don't understand what I was saying and I explained it in my last paragraph.
> 
> But, I unquestionably proved this idiotic statement completely wrong which was my entire point so I'm done going round and round with you:
> They need *less *time.


I respectfully disagree with the last part since I genuinely believe that the Young Bucks and ReDRagon are 2 of their best tag teams in the division.

Thus, I think that they do deserve more time to have thrilling matches/programs with other tag teams.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

CovidFan said:


> How can it even be a belief if it's a fact on a sheet? Of course they didn't have the lowest overall viewership because and I can't believe I have to say this again but: they had a monster lead in. Had that battle royal been in the second quarter of the second hour through the end, the show would've had 500k by the end. It was (as LB said) a clusterfuck. It was fucking terrible. I can't believe they even thought such a long midcard match was a good idea.
> 
> You don't understand what I was saying and I explained it in my last paragraph.
> 
> But, I unquestionably proved this idiotic statement completely wrong which was my entire point so I'm done going round and round with you:
> They need *less *time.


*Ah, now you finally realize why he's been ignored for a year. *


----------



## La Parka

Great number for that huge main event.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit Lioness said:


> *@#BadNewsSanta it's time to take the L on Hangman breh.*


lol I even didn't give a shit about that 6-man.

But yeah, not a good quarter for him. Chalk it up on your blackboard.


----------



## Peerless

Deserved rating for the last quarter. TUE and the Dark Order are the definitions of geek squad.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> I mean people who still have cable in 2022 generally lean towards the older audience so its not surprising that they are watching the news, I don't think they're looking it up on their phones like we do for the most part.


Yeah old folk love their news. Now my grandmother doesn't watch CNN, MSNBC, or Fox News but god damn does she watch the 12 o'clock local news, 5 o'clock local news, 6 o'clock ABC world news, and 10 o'clock local news


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

YIKES AWFUL RATING


----------



## Teemu™

That rating is absolutely embarrassing, but it's on par with what I expected. Haha, oh man...


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Dark Order is like Tony's Ding Dong's. Jim Herd shook.


----------



## thorn123

There is no defending that rating. AEW is excellent but let’s accept it’s niche at best.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500096682972880902This arena should look neat on TV. Looks like a classic wrestling venue.


----------



## Not Lying

Adam Cole was a terrible first PPV challenger. Especially since he beat no one notable and was beat by OC...
The Undisputed Era don't belong in the main event with acts like Mox Bryan MJF Punk Darby around.
It's gona main event yet even Eddie/Y2J is hotter, let alone punk/mjf and Mox/Brian.

Fact is, that 6-man main event should have had a bump in the ratings. World champion vs former competitor world champ and featured wrestler. Losing 50k fans is no bueno.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> Adam Cole was a terrible first PPV challenger. Especially since he beat no one notable and was beat by OC...
> The Undisputed Era don't belong in the main event with acts like Mox Bryan MJF Punk Darby around.
> It's gona main event yet even Eddie/Y2J is hotter, let alone punk/mjf and Mox/Brian.
> 
> Fact is, that 6-man main event should have had a bump in the ratings. World champion vs former competitor world champ and featured wrestler. Losing 50k fans is no bueno.


*They need to go ahead and let Punk vs MJF main event. I was in a theater for Kenny vs Christian and no one gave a shit until it was over and we were waiting for the debuts. The crowd was dead too. That's what happens when your hottest program doesn't main event.*


----------



## 3venflow

Another good early advance in Vegas after DoN's $1m day one gate.

*AEW Dynamite
WED MAY 25, 2022 – 4:00 PM
Michelob ULTRA Arena, Las Vegas NV*

Available Tickets => 1,445
Current Setup/Capacity => 5,485
Tickets Distributed => 4,040


----------



## CovidFan

Is this DoN show their first $1m gate?


----------



## Erik.

CovidFan said:


> Is this DoN show their first $1m gate?


I believe so.

Grand Slam done just under, I believe.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500584958448046081

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

My wrestling bubble ass had to google what the hell the Masked Singer even is


----------



## VitoCorleoneX

Khan fears Masked Singer


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Hey guys...about Hangman I hate to say I told y'all so but I told y'all so.



Chip Chipperson said:


> Has all of them but hasn't been built up properly, hasn't really beaten anyone who is a big deal (Until today) and has zero mainstream popularity meaning he'll probably move ratings down as opposed to up...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or maybe the long term storytelling sucks...
> 
> People have been telling me for months how this Hangman/Kenny feud is the best storyline in wrestling and today AEW couldn't even give it a proper video package. That's some feud...


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500941831944785922

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## VitoCorleoneX

Whats your guys predictions for the Revolution PPV buys? Above 150.000 possible?


----------



## Mr316

VitoCorleoneX said:


> Whats your guys predictions for the Revolution PPV buys? Above 150.000 possible?


115k.


----------



## Erik.

VitoCorleoneX said:


> Whats your guys predictions for the Revolution PPV buys? Above 150.000 possible?


Revolution 2020 was 105,000
Revolution 2021 was 125,000

So I would expect about 135,000 to show their continuous growth.


----------



## Erik.

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500941831944785922
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This week - 545,000 - (.22)

Last week - 473,000 - (.18)


Both Smackdown and Rampage saw quite big bumps in ratings. 

Third week in a row that Rampage went up in ratings, actually deserved to asw ell, it was one of their best ever shows.


----------



## Prosper

Erik. said:


> This week - 545,000 - (.22)
> 
> Last week - 473,000 - (.18)
> 
> 
> Both Smackdown and Rampage saw quite big bumps in ratings.
> 
> Third week in a row that Rampage went up in ratings, actually deserved to asw ell, it was one of their best ever shows.


It was just an incredible weekend altogether. Rampage, the Buy In, and Revolution were all fire.


----------



## TD Stinger

GNKenny said:


> My wrestling bubble ass had to google what the hell the Masked Singer even is


Reminds me of when Bad Bunny, this huge music star, gets into wrestling last year and like 80% of wrestling fans were like "LOL, WHO?!" Lol.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501227241056788483

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> This week - 545,000 - (.22)
> 
> Last week - 473,000 - (.18)
> 
> 
> Both Smackdown and Rampage saw quite big bumps in ratings.
> 
> Third week in a row that Rampage went up in ratings, actually deserved to asw ell, it was one of their best ever shows.


new viewers and growth

love to see it

Bucks, Hangman and Punk draws again


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501262636004122630

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

11:30PM LMAO.

Now watch there be a huge ratings plot twist and it gets like 900k 
(I know that's not actually happening).


----------



## Not Lying

#BadNewsSanta said:


> 11:30PM LMAO.
> 
> Now watch there be a huge ratings plot twist and it gets like 900k
> (I know that's not actually happening).


I think it's time to pull the big guns.


----------



## DammitChrist

#BadNewsSanta said:


> 11:30PM LMAO.
> 
> Now watch there be a huge ratings plot twist and it gets like 900k
> (I know that's not actually happening).


Rampage getting 500 billion viewers on March 18th confirmed.


----------



## Erik.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501279453233786896


----------



## omaroo

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501279453233786896


Hope they can push past 15,000. They have more than 2 months.


----------



## 3venflow

WrestleTix doesn't think they'll be able to open more than 14,000 seats with the stage setup. It'll sell out with ease.

This week's Dynamite, which had very slow advances, has also seen a lot of ticket movement and is now close to 2,500. Still not great, but they were at something like 1,600 before the PPV.

St. Patrick's Day Slam is at 5,200 sold and they just opened more sections, bumping capacity to over 6,100.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501227241056788483
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*The trend is still massively downwards after the first segment, but I'm glad Tony Khan is putting better content on the show. I enjoyed most of it.*


----------



## Not Lying

The next few months could be rough. 
Just like the past 2 years...
There's TV competition with NBA + Masked Singer, and there's usually a wrestling down period post-WM and before SummerSlam (happened past few years as well for SD). If they can maintain 900K-1m it'll be good. 
Bounce back towards end of Summer.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501901343778390017
Supposing the low end of this is true, it'd make Revolution the second-most purchased AEW PPV in history. All Out 2021 did ca. 205,000 buys which is unlikely to be hit any time soon, if ever.


----------



## Sad Panda

If that number is accurate then that’s a huge win for AEW.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Would be an impressive number if true. One of many metrics showing gradual growth for AEW. The last few ppv's have been great to be fair.


----------



## VitoCorleoneX

Its still crazy how they managed to have 205,000 ppvs buys for all out.


----------



## Erik.

I said 135,000 would have been good enough and showed growth on previous Revolution PPVs.

But 146,000 (Low end number) would be incredible.


----------



## Zappers

Not good.


----------



## Erik.

Zappers said:


> Not good.


RIP AEW.

You had a good run.


----------



## Prosper

*Some early news on AEW Revolution buyrates:*

"The 2022 AEW Revolution pay-per-view looks to be one of the most successful events in company history.

Last Sunday’s Revolution event from the Addition Financial Arena in Orlando, FL drew 110,000 pay-per-view buys on Bleacher Report and FITE, according to Wrestling Observer Radio.

Depending on how well Revolution did on cable and satellite providers, the pay-per-view could end up with a low of 146,000 buys and a high of 165,000-170,000 buys. This would make Revolution the second-best AEW pay-per-view in terms of buys, only behind the 2021 All out pay-per-view, which drew a reported 205,000 total buys.

Each of AEW’s last five pay-per-view events have brought in over 115,000 buys. Before Revolution, Full Gear 2021 drew 145,000 buys, All Out 2021 drew the 205,000 buys, Double Or Nothing 2021 drew 115,000 buys, and Revolution 2021 drew 135,000 buys.

The Revolution 2020 pay-per-view drew 90,000 buys."

*Source:* News On AEW Revolution PPV Buys - Wrestling Inc.


----------



## 3venflow

They've sold around 6,500 in the *presale* for the Cali show at The Forum with over 2,000 people in the queue. Current capacity is 8,583. They really need to go to the west coast more.

The live Rampage two days later at the Toyota Arena moved 2,636 in the presale with current capacity at 4,117.


----------



## Zappers

How did they only sell that little for Dynamite this week? Must have been the area?


----------



## Martyn

Zappers said:


> How did they only sell that little for Dynamite this week? Must have been the area?


Fourth show in Florida in a row.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502026603219595271

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502026603219595271
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


TUNE IN NEXT WEEK WITH ANOTHER SUPRISE DEBUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501901343778390017
> Supposing the low end of this is true, it'd make Revolution the second-most purchased AEW PPV in history. All Out 2021 did ca. 205,000 buys which is unlikely to be hit any time soon, if ever.
> 
> View attachment 118324


i guess the main event will get no props


----------



## 3venflow

A good night at the office for Dynamite, which finished number one on cable ahead of the NBA.


----------



## Erik.

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502026603219595271
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Close the company down.

AEW in the mud.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

No matter how you slice it this is a terrible number off a PPV


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> A good night at the office for Dynamite, which finished number one on cable ahead of the NBA.
> 
> View attachment 118333


number 1 is always nice

beating NBA is nicer

THANKS HANGMAN, THANKS BUCKS!


----------



## Sad Panda

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> No matter how you slice it this is a terrible number off a PPV


its really not though.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

LifeInCattleClass said:


> number 1 is always nice
> 
> beating NBA is nicer
> 
> THANKS HANGMAN, THANKS BUCKS!


First the demo is all that matters and now its cable rankings!


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Sad Panda said:


> its really not though.


How isn't it? The number is down from last week and usually shows get a spike in views after a huge PPV.


----------



## Sad Panda

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> How isn't it? The number is down from last week and usually shows get a spike in views after a huge PPV.


Down 2% is minuscule, especially when they’re up 12% in demo.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> First the demo is all that matters and now its cable rankings!


what are you talking about?

number 1 is determined by the demo - they are intertwined


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> number 1 is always nice
> 
> beating NBA is nicer
> 
> THANKS HANGMAN, THANKS BUCKS!


And with increased competition on network TV (Masked Singer premiered last night with 0.87 directly opposite Dynamite), a very successful number. Some people are never going to accept what matters most and what the shows are ranked by. Networks will give a grand total of zero fucks if a show is up or down 40,000 total viewers. They will give a lot of fucks if a show loses its young audience though.

As many of us have said, the ratings debate will be settled come TV rights time. Once AEW gets a big bump in revenue, the whole viewership vs. 18-49 debate can come to an end (maybe). As long as total viewership is high enough to maintain the high P18-49, then these fluctuations aren't very important.

Edit: Also to point out, they debuted Draft Kings as a sponsor for Revolution. Draft Kings partners with a lot of big time sports franchises and teams, such as UFC, NFL, MLB and NASCAR. If AEW only had boomers watching, it'd be less appealing to that type of sponsor.


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> A good night at the office for Dynamite, which finished number one on cable ahead of the NBA.
> 
> View attachment 118333


This Week - 945,000 - (.40) 

Last Week - 966,000 - (. 35)

Last Year - 743,000 - (.32)


Only company not to go up in viewership over the last 7 days. However, I believe its the only show to be ranked number one in its slot.

Good demo and improvement on viewership from last year.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Oh boy, ratings discussion!


----------



## LacunaCoiled

GNKenny said:


> Oh boy, ratings discussion!


Oh boy 3am


----------



## BestInTheWorld312




----------



## Dr. Middy

Demo looks good. Rating itself seems low. 

Show was good and established a bunch of new stories so we'll see how that translates to next week.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Elitest said:


> it's almost smart to sell for massive bucks like ROH have and re-start as a new company altogether. starting from zero with tv channels might be the struggle though


Anthem owns the network(s) that air IMPACT.


----------



## La Parka

Zappers said:


> Not good.


Was it dress like a seat night?


----------



## ShadowCounter

3venflow said:


> And with increased competition on network TV (Masked Singer premiered last night with 0.87 directly opposite Dynamite), a very successful number.


That didn't help but Survivor premiered last night. That's what did it. Wednesday's are usually stacked through the year with big shows off and on. The Challenge being another coming back soon. Much less competition on Mondays. That's a moot point though. Even if Khan wanted to reignite the Monday night wars he can't due to NFL restrictions. Is what it is.


----------



## bdon

Dr. Middy said:


> Demo looks good. Rating itself seems low.
> 
> Show was good and established a bunch of new stories so we'll see how that translates to next week.


New stories, yet the World Champion still has nothing and remains a background character.

Again I ask: WHY THE FUCK WOULD ANYONE WANT TO BE WORLD CHAMPION IN THIS COMPANY?


----------



## Seafort

This was a very strong show. Next week will pop due to this weeks events.


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> New stories, yet the World Champion still has nothing and remains a background character.
> 
> Again I ask: WHY THE FUCK WOULD ANYONE WANT TO BE WORLD CHAMPION IN THIS COMPANY?


I feel this is why it's kinda hard to judge hangman as champion. For the most part he's been booked like a mid card champion where his last two storylines were like 5th maybe 6th most important on the show.

He's doing good with what he's been given but I have no idea why theyre going on with the Cole feud.


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> I feel this is why it's kinda hard to judge hangman as champion. For the most part he's been booked like a mid card champion where his last two storylines were like 5th maybe 6th most important on the show.
> 
> He's doing good with what he's been given but I have no idea why theyre going on with the Cole feud.


Adam Cole might be the worst I’ve ever seen. I really, really fucking hate the way he wrestles. And now that he’s here, Britt Baker has began to look awful shitty, too.


----------



## the_hound

Seafort said:


> This was a very strong show. Next week will pop due to this weeks events.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Oh shit dynamite was under a million for 2 weeks in a row?


Has wwe released someone recently for tiny to debut next week? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Randy Lahey

0.40 is a good number. Raw was around 0.45 so if AEW stays around 0.40 they’ll be fully ahead of Raw after WM season when Raw typically loses lot of viewers.

Dave said Tony’s goal should be peaking late this year when the TV deal is negotiated. Given the current trajectory Dynamite should be beating Raw most weeks by then.


----------



## Prized Fighter

They actually got a higher number then I expected. When looking at trends, Masked Singer has killed their ratings previously.


----------



## RapShepard

They did good enough given they hit the number 1 spot. But it's funny watching all the excuses for why the "most stacked roster, that's putting on banger matches, and pleasing wrestling fans" did under a million viewers.

"oh Masked singer premiered"

"Oh The Challenge will be back"


----------



## midgetlover69

I dont think AEW will have the kind of lifespan that they are anticipating

This was a relatively good show coming off a PPV and nobody cared to tune in

They arent growing their audience at all and sooner or later they will even lose some of the viewers that they do have as people move on with their lives. This is year 3 of AEW so all that new company hype and excitement has already gone

There are talks of using ROH as a developmental, creating their own stars, saving matches, saving feuds etc but by that time people will have already made up their mind about AEW. So what is the point? There is a very real chance their boat has sailed


----------



## Borko

They had a great momentum until October, the peak number was 1.319.000. They lost it after Dynamite was moved to Saturdays for 3 weeks in a row I think. Then Adam Page became the world champion and that certainly didn't help. I still hope that with the right storylines later this year they can go to 1.2-1.3 million again.


----------



## 3venflow

Here are the QHs. Sorry for the blurriness, I screengrabbed it from Wrestlenomics stream. It had a big lead-in from the BBT it appears but instantly lost most of the extras from that and was then fairly stable for the rest of the show. The Q1 to Q2 drop seemed sharper than the trend though.


----------



## Geeee

surprised how well this episode did with the ladies. From my calculations they were 3rd in F12-34 and 4th in F18-49


----------



## Jay Trotter

Stunningly low number for Mox and BD in viewers. Lower than even Rosa and Hirsch is very unexpected. But a small uptick in demo so not a complete wash.


----------



## VitoCorleoneX

Rating isnt shocking i expected worse.
I thought it was one of the weakest dynamite episodes this year.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

3venflow said:


> Here are the QHs. Sorry for the blurriness, I screengrabbed it from Wrestlenomics stream. It had a big lead-in from the BBT it appears but instantly lost most of the extras from that and was then fairly stable for the rest of the show. The Q1 to Q2 drop seemed sharper than the trend though.
> 
> View attachment 118338
> 
> 
> View attachment 118339


Nice to see the women match was the second highest in total viewership 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RainmakerV2

I mean there wasn't a lot to sink into after the PPV. Cole is a joke in the championship picture. Punk beat MJF then wasn't there. Neither was MJF. I dont think people are super into Bryan and Mox in this tag team division. What are they gonna do? Go after the Bucks? GREAT....Hirsch has no business on TV. Guevara has consistently done shit numbers.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

TD Stinger said:


> Reminds me of when Bad Bunny, this huge music star, gets into wrestling last year and like 80% of wrestling fans were like "LOL, WHO?!" Lol.


At least some people are willing to admit they are out of touch with the real world.


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> Here are the QHs. Sorry for the blurriness, I screengrabbed it from Wrestlenomics stream. It had a big lead-in from the BBT it appears but instantly lost most of the extras from that and was then fairly stable for the rest of the show. The Q1 to Q2 drop seemed sharper than the trend though.
> 
> View attachment 118338
> 
> 
> View attachment 118339


so if you remove the accidental lead-in bump they did barely above 900k? Thats great coming out of the "best PPV they ever did" buys wise.


----------



## Fearless Viper

What matters is their placement on the chart and they're no.1 this week. That's good enough.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502027159040319500


----------



## Zappers

Martyn said:


> Fourth show in Florida in a row.


Oh. So the fans are tired of it. Understandable.


----------



## 3venflow

Tickets are moving much faster than recently with the new batch of shows. Exhausting the same territories over and over led to some lower gates recently.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502310500494983172


----------



## Fearless Viper

I'll just post this here instead making another thread...


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/tboe9w


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Fearless Viper said:


> I'll just post this here instead making another thread...
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/tboe9w


*Meltzer is so fucking stupid that he doesn't realize how badly he contradicted himself here. If Punk and MJF were BY FAR the #1 searched feud with nothing on the line but pride, then Hangman is failing as champion.*


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Meltzer is so fucking stupid that he doesn't realize how badly he contradicted himself here. If Punk and MJF were BY FAR the #1 searched feud with nothing on the line but pride, then Hangman is failing as champion.*


Even crazier is somebody saying they think Punk vs Bryan could sell out Jaguar stadium. Like both are draws but that's a lot of seats


----------



## Erik.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502363449153626112


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502373241972830214

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502363449153626112


As usual, the clever Dave Meltzer knows his shit


----------



## 3venflow

If they've already moved 11,000 tickets at The Forum, they've already matched Nitro from 1997 (Luger/Giant vs. Hall/Nash, Savage vs. DDP, Piper vs. Flair, Rey vs. Syxx, Eddie vs. Malenko) and outsold WWE in 2015 (8,000 with Reigns vs. Sheamus, Mox vs. Owens, Lesnar vs. Del Rio) there. WCW in 1999 is the highest attendance there with 16,348 (Goldberg vs. Nash, Sting vs. Bret, Flair vs. Windham, Konnan vs. Luger).

Here's another strong start:

*AEW Presents "Dynamite/Rampage"
Wed • Jun 29 • 7:00 PM
Little Caesars Arena, Detroit, MI*

Available Tickets => 2,432
Current Setup/Capacity => 9,971
Tickets Distributed => 7,539

Edit: Here is Wrestle Tix's info on The Forum show. Wow. They ought to alter the stage so they can get more people in behind and get closer to the WCW '99 number.

*AEW Presents "Dynamite"
Wed • Jun 01 • 4:00 PM
The Forum, Inglewood, CA*

Available Tickets => 550
Current Setup/Capacity => 12,586
Tickets Distributed => 12,036 (95.6%)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

There’s certainly a case to be made for Page being successful as champion (albeit not a big draw), BUT if just thinking about these two PPVs he’s main evented, it’s a little iffy to make that claim. Sure, Full Gear you can absolutely attribute to Page. The build to that centered around Page and him having his moment. Even then, Punk’s impact can’t be ignored and while his match with Kingston wasn’t high profile, it did have a lot of heat and intrigue. Still Page/Omega, and therefore Page, deserve credit for that one.

Revolution though? Page/Cole wasn’t as bad in build up or match as others may say, but it was the third biggest match on the card, at best. It was an upper mid-card feud with the top title on the line. No way Revolution buys should be attributed to Page/Cole. While Punk/MJF was the biggest match on the show and should get the biggest individual share of the credit, I think it was the strength of the build up to several matches on the show that gets it the buys it has. But it’s certainly not an Adam Page thing. People talk about draws because in some contexts they main evented shows that did “x” number, but really it’s a thin stance to have. Page getting credit for this PPV being a success would be dumb, but that’s the way some would consider it.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

3venflow said:


> If they've already moved 11,000 tickets at The Forum, they've already matched Nitro from 1997 (Luger/Giant vs. Hall/Nash, Savage vs. DDP, Piper vs. Flair, Rey vs. Syxx, Eddie vs. Malenko) and outsold WWE in 2015 (8,000 with Reigns vs. Sheamus, Mox vs. Owens, Lesnar vs. Del Rio) there. WCW in 1999 is the highest attendance there with 16,348 (Goldberg vs. Nash, Sting vs. Bret, Flair vs. Windham, Konnan vs. Luger).
> 
> Here's another strong start:
> 
> *AEW Presents "Dynamite/Rampage"
> Wed • Jun 29 • 7:00 PM
> Little Caesars Arena, Detroit, MI*
> 
> Available Tickets => 2,432
> Current Setup/Capacity => 9,971
> Tickets Distributed => 7,539
> 
> Edit: Here is Wrestle Tix's info on The Forum show. Wow. They ought to alter the stage so they can get more people in behind and get closer to the WCW '99 number.
> 
> *AEW Presents "Dynamite"
> Wed • Jun 01 • 4:00 PM
> The Forum, Inglewood, CA*
> 
> Available Tickets => 550
> Current Setup/Capacity => 12,586
> Tickets Distributed => 12,036 (95.6%)


Very impressive. For all the problems I may have with the actual product, stuff like this is always cool.

I think Tony should invest in a much smaller scaled stage for occurrences like this. Akin to stuff the WWF used in the late 90s.








Just add a few LED screens and presto.


----------



## 3venflow

Tickets for the live Rampage in Cali are also flying.

*All Elite Wrestling Presents Rampage
Fri • Jun 03 • 6:00 PM
Toyota Arena, Ontario, CA*

Available Tickets => 922
Current Setup/Capacity => 6,647
Tickets Distributed => 5,725


----------



## omaroo

Man proves they should be doing same number of shows on the West Coast as they on the east coast.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Since this is all totally legit, I expect to find no $4 tickets on Stubhub the night before the show


----------



## MrOrange100

The way these tv ratings get ranked by the key demo alone is ridiculous. I know that a key demo viewer is more important to advertisers than an older viewer but it’s not an all or nothing thing. For example, on Wednesday night Tucker Carlson’s show got 4 times the total viewership of Dynamite. There is no way that Tucker should be ranked behind Dynamite because it did slightly worse in the key demo.


----------



## CovidFan

MrOrange100 said:


> The way these tv ratings get ranked by the key demo alone is ridiculous. I know that a key demo viewer is more important to advertisers than an older viewer but it’s not an all or nothing thing. For example, on Wednesday night Tucker Carlson’s show got 4 times the total viewership of Dynamite. There is no way that Tucker should be ranked behind Dynamite because it did slightly worse in the key demo.


It doesn't appear they put it as an "all or nothing thing" as you're alleging. They take the most important thing and rate #1 by that metric which I figure is what they think is the fairest way to rate the shows. Go to a television forum and complain about that if you care so much because it has nothing to do with wrestling (aside from your tears about AEW getting #1). Cheers, Mr. 1st post


----------



## Prized Fighter

MrOrange100 said:


> The way these tv ratings get ranked by the key demo alone is ridiculous. I know that a key demo viewer is more important to advertisers than an older viewer but it’s not an all or nothing thing. For example, on Wednesday night Tucker Carlson’s show got 4 times the total viewership of Dynamite. There is no way that Tucker should be ranked behind Dynamite because it did slightly worse in the key demo.


It is about the kind of the products that can be sold. Tucker Carlson may get 4 million viewers, but when he averages 65+ all your really selling in ads is metamucil or life alert. The key demo matters because you can have a broader ad base and the younger audience is less conservative with their money. People 49+ may have more money, but they don't spend it frivolously like younger people do. They have a mortgage, car payments, their kids college tuition, etc.


----------



## MrOrange100

Prized Fighter said:


> It is about the kind of the products that can be sold. Tucker Carlson may get 4 million viewers, but when he averages 65+ all your really selling in ads is metamucil or life alert. The key demo matters because you can have a broader ad base and the younger audience is less conservative with their money. People 49+ may have more money, but they don't spend it frivolously like younger people do. They have a mortgage, car payments, their kids college tuition, etc.


Okay, that makes sense. I still think it's silly to have a ranking system for ratings that gives zero weight to viewers outside of the key demo but I didn't consider the importance that advertisers place on the average age of audience. I did a little research and it does appear that many advertisers will avoid advertising on shows that have a higher average viewer age regardless of the total size of the audience. Again, I still think it's silly for a show with 4 million viewers to be ranked behind a show with under 1 million viewers because of a small difference in the key demo but I can more so understand why that is now. On a final note though, Tucker's show can't be having THAT difficult of a time finding advertisers given that Tucker reportedly gets paid $35 million a year from Fox.


----------



## cai1981

3venflow said:


> Here are the QHs. Sorry for the blurriness, I screengrabbed it from Wrestlenomics stream. It had a big lead-in from the BBT it appears but instantly lost most of the extras from that and was then fairly stable for the rest of the show. The Q1 to Q2 drop seemed sharper than the trend though.
> 
> View attachment 118338
> 
> 
> View attachment 118339


The World Championship match lost almost 200k viewers! That is bad!

Adam Page is not World Championship material!


----------



## 3venflow

Latest advances c/o WrestleTix.

*AEW Presents Dynamite/Rampage
Wed • Mar 16 • 6:00 PM
Freeman Coliseum, San Antonio, TX*

Available Tickets => 720
Current Setup/Capacity => 6,344
Tickets Distributed => 5,624


*AEW Dynamite - Rampage
Wed • Apr 06 • 7:00 PM
Agganis Arena, Boston, MA*

Available Tickets => 98
Current Setup/Capacity => 5,293
Tickets Distributed => 5,195 (98.1%)


*AEW Presents Dynamite-Rampage
Wed • May 04 • 7:00 PM
Chesapeake Employers Insurance Arena, Baltimore, MD*

Available Tickets => 950
Current Setup/Capacity => 4,055
Tickets Distributed => 3,105


*AEW Presents DYNAMITE
Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 6:00 pm
FERTITTA CENTER, Houston, TX*

Available Tickets => 589
Estimated Setup/Capacity => 4,836
Tickets Distributed => 4,247


*AEW Double or Nothing
SUN MAY 29, 2022 – 4:30 PM
T-Mobile Arena, Las Vegas NV*

Available Tickets => 318
Current Setup/Capacity => 13,172
Tickets Distributed => 12,854 (97.6%)


*AEW Presents "Dynamite"
Wed • Jun 01 • 4:00 PM
The Forum, Inglewood, CA*

Available Tickets => 169
Current Setup/Capacity => 12,794
Tickets Distributed => 12,625 (98.7%)


*All Elite Wrestling Presents Rampage
Fri • Jun 03 • 6:00 PM
Toyota Arena, Ontario, CA*

Available Tickets => 641
Current Setup/Capacity => 6,945
Tickets Distributed => 6,304 (90.8%)


*AEW Presents "Dynamite/Rampage"
Wed • Jun 29 • 7:00 PM
Little Caesars Arena, Detroit, MI*

Available Tickets => 1,817
Current Setup/Capacity => 9,971
Tickets Distributed => 8,154


----------



## RainmakerV2

Guevara lost viewers in a big spot again? Even with Conti and PVZs asses out there to help? What a shock. Dude sucks.


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage:

526,000 viewers
P18-49: 0.22

Viewership down a modest percentage from last week, up from the two weeks prior to that. Demo the same as last week. So much of muchness really. It ranked 26th on cable.


----------



## Erik.

This Week - 526,000 - (.22)

Last Week - 545,000 - (.22)


----------



## 3venflow

Crazy that this is for a Rampage:

*All Elite Wrestling Presents Rampage
Fri • Jun 03 • 6:00 PM
Toyota Arena, Ontario, CA*

Available Tickets => 324
Current Setup/Capacity => 7,355
Tickets Distributed => 7,031

And a first count for another Rampage:

*AEW Rampage
FRI MAY 27, 2022 – 3:00 PM
Michelob ULTRA Arena, Las Vegas NV*

Available Tickets => 1,149
Current Setup/Capacity => 5,227
Tickets Distributed => 4,078

I'm amazed a one-hour show with a handful of Elevation matches beforehand can do such numbers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Crazy that this is for a Rampage:
> 
> *All Elite Wrestling Presents Rampage
> Fri • Jun 03 • 6:00 PM
> Toyota Arena, Ontario, CA*
> 
> Available Tickets => 324
> Current Setup/Capacity => 7,355
> Tickets Distributed => 7,031
> 
> And a first count for another Rampage:
> 
> *AEW Rampage
> FRI MAY 27, 2022 – 3:00 PM
> Michelob ULTRA Arena, Las Vegas NV*
> 
> Available Tickets => 1,149
> Current Setup/Capacity => 5,227
> Tickets Distributed => 4,078
> 
> I'm amazed a one-hour show with a handful of Elevation matches beforehand can do such numbers.


the start times on these are rough


----------



## Prized Fighter

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the start times on these are rough


I am very confused by that 3 pm (PT) start time. That is four hour prior to Rampage at it's normal time. I am guessing that this will be a 7 pm (EST) show. That way there is an hour of Dark and an hour of Rampage.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503875409313677321

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rbl85

Pretty rare to see the last QT go up


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> Pretty rare to see the last QT go up


Well QT Marshall destroyed the quarter before that so it had nowhere else to go but up.


----------



## Prized Fighter

So even WWE sees AEW's demo ratings as success. Granted it took the lawsuit with MLW for them to admit it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prized Fighter said:


> So even WWE sees AEW's demo ratings as success. Granted it took the lawsuit with MLW for them to admit it.
> 
> View attachment 118606


well…. Look at that

and even focusing the demo - be still my beating heart

the first thing WWE has done correct in years


----------



## DammitChrist

I guess the demographics numbers were always important then (just like we’ve been saying over the past year)


----------



## Erik.

Prized Fighter said:


> So even WWE sees AEW's demo ratings as success. Granted it took the lawsuit with MLW for them to admit it.
> 
> View attachment 118606




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504136423728943108


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504136423728943108


lol, good thing NWA didn't try to sue anybody

those disses would've been astronomical


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

paging @RapShepard and @The Legit Lioness   


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504150391184760836


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> paging @RapShepard and @The Legit Lioness
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504150391184760836


Sounds like corporate corporating to me and sadly they'll win. 

"Your honor how could we be a monopoly if they got Punk and Bryan!!! We wanted those guys, they ain't want us... No monopoly"


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Sounds like corporate corporating to me and sadly they'll win.
> 
> "Your honor how could we be a monopoly if they got Punk and Bryan!!! We wanted those guys, they ain't want us... No monopoly"


they said it, so it must be true


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they said it, so it must be true


Not only true... But morally righteous


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> paging @RapShepard and @The Legit Lioness
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504150391184760836


*Who am I to argue with a legal document? Enjoy your demo. Sasha still outdrew Punk by 300,000 viewers on a third rate channel though. *


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> paging @RapShepard and @The Legit Lioness
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504150391184760836


The Bunny destroying MLW like she destroyed Roman Reigns.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Who am I to argue with a legal document? Enjoy your demo. Sasha still outdrew Punk by 300,000 viewers on a third rate channel though. *


lol - i can live with that


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

I say they're under 900k this week


----------



## DammitChrist

Erik. said:


> The Bunny destroying MLW like *she destroyed Roman Reigns.*


It happened twice apparently 😂


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> I guess the demographics numbers were always important then (just like we’ve been saying over the past year)


To advertisers it matters but as we've been discussing for two years now the 18-49 male wrestling fan generally makes below the average wage, does not own a home, lives with parents/roommates and doesn't even buy wrestling related stuff instead deciding to pirate it.

What advertiser in their right mind would read that and go "These are the people we need to promote to!"?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> To advertisers it matters but as we've been discussing for two years now the 18-49 male wrestling fan generally makes below the average wage, does not own a home, lives with parents/roommates and doesn't even buy wrestling related stuff instead deciding to pirate it.
> 
> What advertiser in their right mind would read that and go "These are the people we need to promote to!"?


ok, enough of this BS

Everybody who fits the criteria that Chip describes here - raise your hands

like... anybody

From what I know of this forum, only @thatonewwefanguy - and that is only because he's still in school


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ok, enough of this BS
> 
> Everybody who fits the criteria that Chip describes here - raise your hands
> 
> like... anybody
> 
> From what I know of this forum, only @thatonewwefanguy - and that is only because he's still in school


Nobody is going to openly admit that they don't make a lot of money, live with family/friends/roommates and struggle financially because that's pretty embarrassing. Also, people are motivated to be dishonest about this because they think it's an attempt for me to make the Dub look bad so they have more motivation to lie.

I run shows myself, I know a whole heap of wrestling fans and what they do and the reality is most hardcore wrestling fans that I know of tend to be mid twenties/early thirties, live at home with their parents and either work a minimum wage job or don't work at all. I don't judge them for that I'm just saying that's the reality of the hardcore wrestling fan and it matches the census.

As for the other fans that turn up aka the casual wrestling fans they tend to be pretty lower middle class as well. I get asked all the time to hold tickets until payday, we don't usually sell a whole heap of pre sales until the week of the show because people don't have the disposable income to book weeks in advance, my ticket people sometimes get told that $15.00 is a bit expensive for a ticket to a show etc.

We do have some upper class fans as well though but they are few and far between. I used to have a lawyer turn up at my events, we've got a chiropractor who regularly comes along and a podiatrist also but for every university educated person in my crowds I'd say there are 10 that are not and are struggling (Again, not judging just being honest)

The smart marks (AEW's target audience) are never the lawyers or doctors though, I'll say that much.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nobody is going to openly admit that they don't make a lot of money, live with family/friends/roommates and struggle financially because that's pretty embarrassing. Also, people are motivated to be dishonest about this because they think it's an attempt for me to make the Dub look bad so they have more motivation to lie.
> 
> I run shows myself, I know a whole heap of wrestling fans and what they do and the reality is most hardcore wrestling fans that I know of tend to be mid twenties/early thirties, live at home with their parents and either work a minimum wage job or don't work at all. I don't judge them for that I'm just saying that's the reality of the hardcore wrestling fan and it matches the census.
> 
> As for the other fans that turn up aka the casual wrestling fans they tend to be pretty lower middle class as well. I get asked all the time to hold tickets until payday, we don't usually sell a whole heap of pre sales until the week of the show because people don't have the disposable income to book weeks in advance, my ticket people sometimes get told that $15.00 is a bit expensive for a ticket to a show etc.
> 
> We do have some upper class fans as well though but they are few and far between. I used to have a lawyer turn up at my events, we've got a chiropractor who regularly comes along and a podiatrist also but for every university educated person in my crowds I'd say there are 10 that are not and are struggling (Again, not judging just being honest)
> 
> The smart marks (AEW's target audience) are never the lawyers or doctors though, I'll say that much.


you are making so many blanket statements about a fanbase in a country you know nothing about

based on a inconsequential survey on a too small database where you quote the relevant data wrong to begin with - JUST to paint the fans of this promotion as some kind of low earning troglodytes who cannot rub 2c together to buy bread

only in an attempt to devalue the whole fanbase and thereby the promotion

explain to me how this is not trolling for a reaction and ultimately dishonest

your experience in Australia and your fanbase has zero bearing / in fact, i would say even most American promotions except WWE has no bearing because of the sheer size differences

edit> hell, you’re even painting critics and haters with the same brush - guess everybody on this board is just piece of shit to you


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you are making so many blanket statements about a fanbase in a country you know nothing about
> 
> based on a inconsequential survey on a too small database where you quote the relevant data wrong to begin with - JUST to paint the fans of this promotion as some kind of low earning troglodytes who cannot rub 2c together to buy bread
> 
> only in an attempt to devalue the whole fanbase and thereby the promotion
> 
> explain to me how this is not trolling for a reaction and ultimately dishonest
> 
> your experience in Australia and your fanbase has zero bearing / in fact, i would say even most American promotions except WWE has no bearing because of the sheer size differences
> 
> edit> hell, you’re even painting critics and haters with the same brush - guess everybody on this board is just piece of shit to you


So the Reddit survey asked 10,000 people which is pretty considerable plus my 15 years of being in the business and extensive knowledge of professional wrestling.

Even back in the territory days tickets used to go on sale for a big event the same day the social security cheques went through, this is knowledge from one of Jim Cornette's podcasts so maybe he doesn't know anything either, lol. He talks a lot in his podcasts about the business side of wrestling btw, do you know Smoky Mountain kept the ticket prices low because the people didn't have a lot of money? OVW also.

The fact is wrestling has always been beloved by the poor to middle class, you can sit on the floor for a WWE taping for 120 bucks, ringside seating is only $275.00 a ticket, house show ringside is barely over a hundred dollars at this point. Compare that to courtside tickets at an NBA game or even a fulltime comedian and the other entertainment choices are going to charge and get more. Hell, a "ringside seat" to see the real life Chip Chipperson (A mid tier comedian who sucks according to most here) do his thing is $95.00. WWE is only 20 more for a house show ringside seat.

And it isn't an attempt to discredit AEW it is honest facts about hardcore wrestling fans in general. I don't even think its necessarily a bad thing that wrestling is something for poor to middle class, most things I enjoy are poor to middle class type events. You're the one that seems upset about the facts and wants to pretend that wrestling fans are all university educated upper class people when most (Not all) aren't.

You're only lying to yourself, chief. Look at any AEW audience, the majority of them are not winners and I'm sure the same goes for WWE.


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> Here are the QHs. Sorry for the blurriness, I screengrabbed it from Wrestlenomics stream. It had a big lead-in from the BBT it appears but instantly lost most of the extras from that and was then fairly stable for the rest of the show. The Q1 to Q2 drop seemed sharper than the trend though.
> 
> View attachment 118338
> 
> 
> View attachment 118339



Really not a good number for Sammy/Scorpio. Sammy’s been in a couple poor rated segments lately and seems too bland to catch on despite having great matches. I really think Tay may end up hurting him if people turn off the show bc they don’t like them


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> So the Reddit survey asked 10,000 people which is pretty considerable plus my 15 years of being in the business and extensive knowledge of professional wrestling.
> 
> Even back in the territory days tickets used to go on sale for a big event the same day the social security cheques went through, this is knowledge from one of Jim Cornette's podcasts so maybe he doesn't know anything either, lol. He talks a lot in his podcasts about the business side of wrestling btw, do you know Smoky Mountain kept the ticket prices low because the people didn't have a lot of money? OVW also.
> 
> The fact is wrestling has always been beloved by the poor to middle class, you can sit on the floor for a WWE taping for 120 bucks, ringside seating is only $275.00 a ticket, house show ringside is barely over a hundred dollars at this point. Compare that to courtside tickets at an NBA game or even a fulltime comedian and the other entertainment choices are going to charge and get more. Hell, a "ringside seat" to see the real life Chip Chipperson (A mid tier comedian who sucks according to most here) do his thing is $95.00. WWE is only 20 more for a house show ringside seat.
> 
> And it isn't an attempt to discredit AEW it is honest facts about hardcore wrestling fans in general. I don't even think its necessarily a bad thing that wrestling is something for poor to middle class, most things I enjoy are poor to middle class type events. You're the one that seems upset about the facts and wants to pretend that wrestling fans are all university educated upper class people when most (Not all) aren't.
> 
> You're only lying to yourself, chief. Look at any AEW audience, the majority of them are not winners and I'm sure the same goes for WWE.


you‘ve convinced me - never knew we were all so poor


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you‘ve convinced me - never knew we were all so poor


I never said all, I actually said multiple times MOST not all.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I never said all, I actually said multiple times MOST not all.


gotcha - most of us - its truly the 1% that has all the money 

and of the 1%…. Only TK loved it😭


----------



## Dr. Middy

Chip Chipperson said:


> So the Reddit survey asked 10,000 people which is pretty considerable plus my 15 years of being in the business and extensive knowledge of professional wrestling.
> 
> Even back in the territory days tickets used to go on sale for a big event the same day the social security cheques went through, this is knowledge from one of Jim Cornette's podcasts so maybe he doesn't know anything either, lol. He talks a lot in his podcasts about the business side of wrestling btw, do you know Smoky Mountain kept the ticket prices low because the people didn't have a lot of money? OVW also.
> 
> The fact is wrestling has always been beloved by the poor to middle class, you can sit on the floor for a WWE taping for 120 bucks, ringside seating is only $275.00 a ticket, house show ringside is barely over a hundred dollars at this point. Compare that to courtside tickets at an NBA game or even a fulltime comedian and the other entertainment choices are going to charge and get more. Hell, a "ringside seat" to see the real life Chip Chipperson (A mid tier comedian who sucks according to most here) do his thing is $95.00. WWE is only 20 more for a house show ringside seat.
> 
> And it isn't an attempt to discredit AEW it is honest facts about hardcore wrestling fans in general. I don't even think its necessarily a bad thing that wrestling is something for poor to middle class, most things I enjoy are poor to middle class type events. You're the one that seems upset about the facts and wants to pretend that wrestling fans are all university educated upper class people when most (Not all) aren't.
> 
> You're only lying to yourself, chief. Look at any AEW audience, the majority of them are not winners and I'm sure the same goes for WWE.


I looked at ticket prices, and the cheapest possible option which I saw maybe once or twice on the entire ground floor seating for both AEW and WWE was $230, and this was in the back of the floor near the exits. Otherwise, most tickets are several hundred dollars easy, with both promotions having plenty of floor seating going for well over $500 to even $1000+. But that's beside the point, because don't most people for sports, concerts, and the like always complain about how expensive ticket prices are? The fact that a larger amount of the population if we're talking the US can afford a ticket is a good thing, isn't it? 

But the last sentence makes no sense to me. If you aren't trying to discredit AEW, or a wrestling audience in general, why label them as not winners? In a roundabout way, are you trying to call them losers without saying it? Seems weird to me if you have a wrestling promotion of your own to legitimately look down at your paying audience for not being wealthy or something.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Dr. Middy said:


> I looked at ticket prices, and the cheapest possible option which I saw maybe once or twice on the entire ground floor seating for both AEW and WWE was $230, and this was in the back of the floor near the exits. Otherwise, most tickets are several hundred dollars easy, with both promotions having plenty of floor seating going for well over $500 to even $1000+. But that's beside the point, because don't most people for sports, concerts, and the like always complain about how expensive ticket prices are? The fact that a larger amount of the population if we're talking the US can afford a ticket is a good thing, isn't it?
> 
> But the last sentence makes no sense to me. If you aren't trying to discredit AEW, or a wrestling audience in general, why label them as not winners? In a roundabout way, are you trying to call them losers without saying it? Seems weird to me if you have a wrestling promotion of your own to legitimately look down at your paying audience for not being wealthy or something.


I didn't check AEW but for the WWE Smackdown on 18.03.2022 the cheapest floor seats currently available are $60.00 with some $78.00 seats available. Most of the floor is $128.00 except for ringside which is about double. Cheap seats are still available for $23.50.

For the house show the next night in Illinois the the cheap seats are $20.00 flat and and you can get ringside centre for $115.00. Some floor seats are available for as little as $30.00.

And yeah, I think it's cool that WWE is affordable entertainment but lets face facts if they could charge more they would. If wrestling was watched predominantly by upper class people with lots of disposable income those tickets would be 1000 dollars for ringside and the floor would start at $400.00 with the cheap seats starting at $128.00. That doesn't happen because wrestling fans aren't wealthy people.

When I say they're not winners I mean they aren't that top 10% in the country who are really killing it in life, it isn't an insult because very few people (Including myself) are in that top 10%. For example, a Science professor at a top tier college making 750,000 dollars a year likely isn't a big wrestling fan, the partner of a law firm that is making a million bucks a year probably doesn't go home after a busy day of lawyering to turn on Dynamite. Most wrestling fans are holding regular person jobs such as plumbers, electricians, policemen, retail, cooks etc. 

And I love my audience, I'm just being honest with you all that most are not wealthy people. I don't care, I still love them all the same and would rather keep a middle class audience over a rich one tbh.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dr. Middy said:


> I looked at ticket prices, and the cheapest possible option which I saw maybe once or twice on the entire ground floor seating for both AEW and WWE was $230, and this was in the back of the floor near the exits. Otherwise, most tickets are several hundred dollars easy, with both promotions having plenty of floor seating going for well over $500 to even $1000+. But that's beside the point, because don't most people for sports, concerts, and the like always complain about how expensive ticket prices are? The fact that a larger amount of the population if we're talking the US can afford a ticket is a good thing, isn't it?
> 
> But the last sentence makes no sense to me. If you aren't trying to discredit AEW, or a wrestling audience in general, why label them as not winners? In a roundabout way, are you trying to call them losers without saying it? Seems weird to me if you have a wrestling promotion of your own to legitimately look down at your paying audience for not being wealthy or something.


don't argue - you're poor

Chip says so - he doesn't just know TKs inner working, but yours too


----------



## Dr. Middy

Chip Chipperson said:


> I didn't check AEW but for the WWE Smackdown on 18.03.2022 the cheapest floor seats currently available are $60.00 with some $78.00 seats available. Most of the floor is $128.00 except for ringside which is about double. Cheap seats are still available for $23.50.
> 
> For the house show the next night in Illinois the the cheap seats are $20.00 flat and and you can get ringside centre for $115.00. Some floor seats are available for as little as $30.00.
> 
> And yeah, I think it's cool that WWE is affordable entertainment but lets face facts if they could charge more they would. If wrestling was watched predominantly by upper class people with lots of disposable income those tickets would be 1000 dollars for ringside and the floor would start at $400.00 with the cheap seats starting at $128.00. That doesn't happen because wrestling fans aren't wealthy people.
> 
> When I say they're not winners I mean they aren't that top 10% in the country who are really killing it in life, it isn't an insult because very few people (Including myself) are in that top 10%. For example, a Science professor at a top tier college making 750,000 dollars a year likely isn't a big wrestling fan, the partner of a law firm that is making a million bucks a year probably doesn't go home after a busy day of lawyering to turn on Dynamite. Most wrestling fans are holding regular person jobs such as plumbers, electricians, policemen, retail, cooks etc.
> 
> And I love my audience, I'm just being honest with you all that most are not wealthy people. I don't care, I still love them all the same and would rather keep a middle class audience over a rich one tbh.


Interesting, we might just be looking in different places perhaps. Maybe if you go into a new show date and look for tickets they're cheaper than what I'm seeing on my end.

Prices we've found aside however, they could probably charge more and get away with it if you get dedicated enough hardcore fans who will spend on it regardless of income. Same goes with really most bigger music acts, or sports in general, and so forth. Those dedicated fanatics will always have the money to pony up to go see and enjoy their favorite forms of live entertainment. I just think it's nice that wrestling seemingly is more affordable than maybe seeing a concert or going to a football game.

But I still don't get the winners thing, or why you think you need to basically be a millionaire to be a winner and successful. By that logic, pretty much the entire world are not winners, which makes no sense to me, and just feels like a put down on most regular people, even if you don't mean it to be. Money in general really shouldn't be a factor to me in who we see as a winner, but it you want to make an argument for being successful then that's a different conversation. Because frankly, I think a friendly electrician who is well liked in his town and makes a decent income wins at life just as much, or even more than a multi millionaire who stepped on peoples heads and is a general ass to most people. You shouldn't dictate personal wealth into winning so much, people are way more complex than just a monetary value.

But yeah, most people in general aren't wealthy or rich, and probably won't ever be. And honestly, I'd rather hang out or cater my product towards a middle or lower class than a bunch of rich people.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 993,000
18-49: 0.38

Viewership up from the last two weeks, key demo down from last week and up from two weeks ago.

#6 on cable behind NBA and NCAA.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Seems like very stiff competition. At least they're in the top 10.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

When did NXT switch nights last year? Comparisons to last year will be more fair once we’re past that (in the sense that this year won’t have an advantage) and I feel like that date is coming up soon. Not sure though.


----------



## Hitman1987

I think if they do 2 cage matches next week they’ll crack a million


----------



## Erik.

This Week - 993,000 - (.38)

Last Week - 945,000 - (.40)

Last Year - 768,000 - (.28)


----------



## Kishido

Viewers are up THIS week. So the demo doesn't matter THIS week!


----------



## Erik.

Kishido said:


> Viewers are up THIS week. So the demo doesn't matter THIS week!


Said absolutely no one ever. 

Or is this baiting?


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

#BadNewsSanta said:


> When did NXT switch nights last year? Comparisons to last year will be more fair once we’re past that (in the sense that this year won’t have an advantage) and I feel like that date is coming up soon. Not sure though.


4/13


----------



## 3venflow

Thurston: 'The Jericho Appreciation Society quarter was the peak in P18-49.'


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> Thurston: 'The Jericho Appreciation Society quarter was the peak in P18-49.'


Sports entertained.


----------



## DaSlacker

Chip Chipperson said:


> I didn't check AEW but for the WWE Smackdown on 18.03.2022 the cheapest floor seats currently available are $60.00 with some $78.00 seats available. Most of the floor is $128.00 except for ringside which is about double. Cheap seats are still available for $23.50.
> 
> For the house show the next night in Illinois the the cheap seats are $20.00 flat and and you can get ringside centre for $115.00. Some floor seats are available for as little as $30.00.
> 
> And yeah, I think it's cool that WWE is affordable entertainment but lets face facts if they could charge more they would. If wrestling was watched predominantly by upper class people with lots of disposable income those tickets would be 1000 dollars for ringside and the floor would start at $400.00 with the cheap seats starting at $128.00. That doesn't happen because wrestling fans aren't wealthy people.
> 
> When I say they're not winners I mean they aren't that top 10% in the country who are really killing it in life, it isn't an insult because very few people (Including myself) are in that top 10%. For example, a Science professor at a top tier college making 750,000 dollars a year likely isn't a big wrestling fan, the partner of a law firm that is making a million bucks a year probably doesn't go home after a busy day of lawyering to turn on Dynamite. Most wrestling fans are holding regular person jobs such as plumbers, electricians, policemen, retail, cooks etc.
> 
> And I love my audience, I'm just being honest with you all that most are not wealthy people. I don't care, I still love them all the same and would rather keep a middle class audience over a rich one tbh.


You might have to go back to the days of Ed Lewis and Jim Londos to find a time when wrestling could be comparable to sports leagues. It's been lowbrow since the 1940s and a clown show since the 80's. This century it morphed into a full on nerdy niche genre with a vocal fanbase. WWE has that but somehow also cemented its place as a household name long running franchise below Marvel, DC, Star Wars, Pixar. Basically it's like one of those 60's and 70's music giants that live of the hits of their prime. AEW doesn't have that luxury.


----------



## Geert Wilders

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 993,000
> 18-49: 0.38
> 
> Viewership up from the last two weeks, key demo down from last week and up from two weeks ago.
> 
> #6 on cable behind NBA and NCAA.
> 
> View attachment 118682


I have only ever seen that male demo climb. Last year they were around 0.4


----------



## omaroo

Product is back to stagnating unfortunately.

No hot storylines or characters.

Just feels really slow and quite boring when you would have thought things would have got exciting post revolution.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

The fact they signed all these wrestlers and none of them moved the needle is alarming


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Dr. Middy said:


> Interesting, we might just be looking in different places perhaps. Maybe if you go into a new show date and look for tickets they're cheaper than what I'm seeing on my end.
> 
> Prices we've found aside however, they could probably charge more and get away with it if you get dedicated enough hardcore fans who will spend on it regardless of income. Same goes with really most bigger music acts, or sports in general, and so forth. Those dedicated fanatics will always have the money to pony up to go see and enjoy their favorite forms of live entertainment. I just think it's nice that wrestling seemingly is more affordable than maybe seeing a concert or going to a football game.
> 
> But I still don't get the winners thing, or why you think you need to basically be a millionaire to be a winner and successful. By that logic, pretty much the entire world are not winners, which makes no sense to me, and just feels like a put down on most regular people, even if you don't mean it to be. Money in general really shouldn't be a factor to me in who we see as a winner, but it you want to make an argument for being successful then that's a different conversation. Because frankly, I think a friendly electrician who is well liked in his town and makes a decent income wins at life just as much, or even more than a multi millionaire who stepped on peoples heads and is a general ass to most people. You shouldn't dictate personal wealth into winning so much, people are way more complex than just a monetary value.
> 
> But yeah, most people in general aren't wealthy or rich, and probably won't ever be. And honestly, I'd rather hang out or cater my product towards a middle or lower class than a bunch of rich people.


I'm mainly talking about hardcore fans, to be blunt most hardcore fans that get super passionate and fanboy for a promotion are often not the most desirable people to be around. I won't name names but I'm sure there are some people on here where Wednesday night when AEW is on is the highlight of their week and to me that isn't winning.

Money plays a factor simply because in this discussion we're talking about advertisers, as per the census and my first hand account your average wrestling fan is struggling financially and is probably middle class down to poor. I have said a few times that I have no issue with this and this isn't a problem (I'm middle class myself)

And yeah, I cater my product towards lower class and middle class also and I have no issues with it but lets not pretend (Not you, others) that wrestling fans are this super desirable group of people to advertise to because they're not.



Erik. said:


> Said absolutely no one ever.
> 
> Or is this baiting?


Probably shouldn't have posted it today as its clearly just to rev people up but this does happen fairly often here.

Overall rating goes down but the demo is good - "WHOA! LOOK AT THE DEMO ITS AMAZING! THE OVERALL DOESN'T MATTER

Overall does well and demo is good - "Damn look at the overall this week"

Overall does well but demo drops - Demo is ignored. Overall is talked about.



DaSlacker said:


> You might have to go back to the days of Ed Lewis and Jim Londos to find a time when wrestling could be comparable to sports leagues. It's been lowbrow since the 1940s and a clown show since the 80's. This century it morphed into a full on nerdy niche genre with a vocal fanbase. WWE has that but somehow also cemented its place as a household name long running franchise below Marvel, DC, Star Wars, Pixar. Basically it's like one of those 60's and 70's music giants that live of the hits of their prime. AEW doesn't have that luxury.


I don't know if wrestling was ever comparable to sports leagues but the business was pretty great from the early 1900's through to the 2000's. Of course there were small lulls in business but this is probably the biggest one and unfortunately it's because the fans have finally taken over.

Tony Khan is the biggest example, the dude bought a wrestling promotion with no background or skill in the industry and is learning as he goes. Instead of being laughed at and shit on for his mistakes people praise him and enable him for giving it a red hot try despite the fact that he makes many mistakes.

When I first got into the wrestling business in 2008 the shows were run all by wrestlers who were legitimately trying to make money and drew big houses, 300-400 people was considered strong but anything under 200 was considered bad and catastrophic, there was one promotion in the entire state run by a "mark" and nobody worked for them or took them seriously.

Now 14 years later there are maybe 5 promoters trying to make money and draw big houses, 300-400 is now considered amazing, 200 is considered really good and maybe anything under 50 people would be bad and catastrophic. We have grandmothers who have no business being in wrestling running shows, mark wrestlers with money running shows to get themselves over, wrestlers who have had 2 full years in the business being made booker, it's insanity.

And that's why the business sucks now, we used to gatekeep and keep it respectable but now every man and his dog can do what they want (Including TK) and be enabled. Now wrestling is niche and nobody is making serious money from it.


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## Geeee

It's wild that the only channel in the green for 50+ is Fox News but like every be Fox News program is in the green. I guess they put it on and just leave it there all day.


----------



## DammitChrist

JESUS, that young demographic spike for Chris Jericho's segment (with Daniel Garcia plus 2.0) is INSANE.

Interestingly enough, even though the Steel Cage match was unfortunately 1 of the lower quarterly segments with the overall viewership, the main event with Britt Baker vs Thunder Rosa was still among the higher rated segments by the young demographic.


----------



## Seafort

Seafort said:


> This was a very strong show. Next week will pop due to this weeks events.


It may not have popped, but it was up.


----------



## fabi1982

Wow that interest in the Hardy Boyz!!


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> The fact they signed all these wrestlers and none of them moved the needle is alarming


Signing a bunch of guys that either weren't ever needle movers or haven't been needle movers in years isn't likely to move the needle. It really doesn't matter what you do with them unless it is truly something that is truly a watershed moment.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

fabi1982 said:


> Wow that interest in the Hardy Boyz!!


Another few million spent on an ageing ex WWE star who does zero. At least Tony gets to say the Hardy Boys work for him though...



MonkasaurusRex said:


> Signing a bunch of guys that either weren't ever needle movers or haven't been needle movers in years isn't likely to move the needle. It really doesn't matter what you do with them unless it is truly something that is truly a watershed moment.


This is a good point, AEW could sign Cena but they'd find a way to cock it up because Cena's first feud would be against 2.0 or something.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Geeee said:


> It's wild that the only channel in the green for 50+ is Fox News but like every be Fox News program is in the green. I guess they put it on and just leave it there all day.



Fox News viewers are mostly boomers. Turn it on in the morning and leave it on during their 3-4 naps throughout the day. 😂


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Dr. Middy said:


> Interesting, we might just be looking in different places perhaps. Maybe if you go into a new show date and look for tickets they're cheaper than what I'm seeing on my end.
> 
> Prices we've found aside however, they could probably charge more and get away with it if you get dedicated enough hardcore fans who will spend on it regardless of income. Same goes with really most bigger music acts, or sports in general, and so forth. Those dedicated fanatics will always have the money to pony up to go see and enjoy their favorite forms of live entertainment. I just think it's nice that wrestling seemingly is more affordable than maybe seeing a concert or going to a football game.
> 
> But I still don't get the winners thing, or why you think you need to basically be a millionaire to be a winner and successful. By that logic, pretty much the entire world are not winners, which makes no sense to me, and just feels like a put down on most regular people, even if you don't mean it to be. Money in general really shouldn't be a factor to me in who we see as a winner, but it you want to make an argument for being successful then that's a different conversation. Because frankly, I think a friendly electrician who is well liked in his town and makes a decent income wins at life just as much, or even more than a multi millionaire who stepped on peoples heads and is a general ass to most people. You shouldn't dictate personal wealth into winning so much, people are way more complex than just a monetary value.
> 
> But yeah, most people in general aren't wealthy or rich, and probably won't ever be. And honestly, I'd rather hang out or cater my product towards a middle or lower class than a bunch of rich people.



This is why tickets are usually expensive starting out since the fans that are usually gonna buy tickets out of the gates are the hardcores and they will often over-pay in order to not miss out. Then they get cheaper as the event gets closer and they want to entice the casuals with cheap affordable tickets. I know WWE does and I’d assume AEW has too.


----------



## VitoCorleoneX

Da fuck happend during the hardys match?


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Chip Chipperson said:


> Another few million spent on an ageing ex WWE star who does zero. At least Tony gets to say the Hardy Boys work for him though...
> 
> 
> 
> This is a good point, AEW could sign Cena but they'd find a way to cock it up because Cena's first feud would be against 2.0 or something.


It's not even that his first feud would be with 2.0 that would be the problem it's that he would be doing random matches with undercard guys with NOTHING to do until it's not even special seeing him work.

WWE isn't really any better than AEW at making people feel special but their issue is the other direction. They give people absolutely mind numbing things to do right out the gate.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504583627878899717

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Prized Fighter

3venflow said:


> View attachment 118684
> 
> 
> View attachment 118685
> 
> 
> View attachment 118686


I give you all one guess what time the NCAA basketball game started.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> View attachment 118684
> 
> 
> View attachment 118685
> 
> 
> View attachment 118686


how the hell does the Hardy’s lose you that much?

well, i know cause i’m not a fan - but geez…. Did people just tune out when they came on?

ps> demo spikes is _chefs kiss_ though


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> how the hell does the Hardy’s lose you that much?
> 
> well, i know cause i’m not a fan - but geez…. Did people just tune out when they came on?
> 
> ps> demo spikes is _chefs kiss_ though


I'll just go with outside competition after 9 PM EST because that big drop honestly makes no sense considering how Jeff Hardy is a BIG star, and it was his debut (tag) match too. Plus, I believe that it's the 1st time that the Hardy Boyz teamed up together in under 5 years too.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

3venflow said:


> View attachment 118684
> 
> 
> View attachment 118685
> 
> 
> View attachment 118686


Red Velvet promo bringing those ratings back up after they got swanton bombed. 😁


----------



## RainmakerV2

I'm not gonna totally put it on the Hardys because Sky winning in that fashion over Wardlow probably did turn a few people off.


----------



## DammitChrist

There is also this recent news that's related to the topic:


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/tgk4ff

That's a pretty cool statistic too.


----------



## One Shed

The segment most like WWE got the ratings that were closest to WWE's? That is not good news.


----------



## Hitman1987

Still struggling to consistently crack a million when they are: 

Running unopposed
Have Sting/Bryan/Punk and Jeff Hardy
Have moved to TBS
Got the west coast back


----------



## DammitChrist

They've grown their audience over the past year, and they've improved their recent ppv buys in the process too; so they aren't really struggling.


----------



## Hitman1987

DammitChrist said:


> They've grown their audience over the past year, and they've improved their recent ppv buys in the process too; so they aren't really struggling.


They are struggling to consistently crack 1m though aren’t they?

What we know for sure is that 1.4m people are aware that AEW exists (1st episode) and 400k of those have decided it isn’t worth watching on a weekly basis.

The roster is there, the money is there, the network is there so what’s missing? I believe it’s the booking.

If TK brought in a decent Booker(s) who could book the show with the same quality and consistency of the MJF vs Punk feud then I think ratings would grow.


----------



## fabi1982

DammitChrist said:


> They've grown their audience over the past year, and they've improved their recent ppv buys in the process too; so they aren't really struggling.


I´m very interested in the difference between 2021 and 2022, when we start comparing unopposed Dynamite´s. You know up until now we are comparing NXT competition Dynamite´s with unopposed ones.


----------



## Hitman1987

fabi1982 said:


> I´m very interested in the difference between 2021 and 2022, when we start comparing unopposed Dynamite´s. You know up until now we are comparing NXT competition Dynamite´s with unopposed ones.


Do we also know how much effect the big lead in that Dynamite now gets has on the overall ratings figure.

That will also need to be taken into account


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> I´m very interested in the difference between 2021 and 2022, when we start comparing unopposed Dynamite´s. You know up until now we are comparing NXT competition Dynamite´s with unopposed ones.


you can only fight whats before you brother 

but I think it is safe to say, Dynamite only retained a small number of the NXT audience that was not watching Dynamite on a Wed

like I think 100k - no more

otherwise they would've been around the 1.1 to 1.3 mark on average

some WWE folk are either just not interested in watching anything else, or it didn't 'grab' them enough

either / or


----------



## Randy Lahey

VitoCorleoneX said:


> Da fuck happend during the hardys match?


College basketball game started


----------



## DaSlacker

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you can only fight whats before you brother
> 
> but I think it is safe to say, Dynamite only retained a small number of the NXT audience that was not watching Dynamite on a Wed
> 
> like I think 100k - no more
> 
> otherwise they would've been around the 1.1 to 1.3 mark on average
> 
> some WWE folk are either just not interested in watching anything else, or it didn't 'grab' them enough
> 
> either / or


I think it's just WWE having a sizable older audience who get their share of wrestling from SmackDown, Raw and NXT. Three long running shows with a combined total of 7 hours of running time. By the time Wednesday comes along they have been too overindulged to jump ship. Plus it's not like AEW is a wildly different creative animal- like a ECW circa 1994, UWFi or Lucha Underground. Neither is it a lot more intelligent than the other wresting shows. It's a tough cookie to crack.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you can only fight whats before you brother
> 
> but I think it is safe to say, Dynamite only retained a small number of the NXT audience that was not watching Dynamite on a Wed
> 
> like I think 100k - no more
> 
> otherwise they would've been around the 1.1 to 1.3 mark on average
> 
> some WWE folk are either just not interested in watching anything else, or it didn't 'grab' them enough
> 
> either / or


So reducing the y/y by 100k makes basically no growth then? 

just want to show that it is easy to write the narrative of growth, like every WWE hater says they only grow in money because they reduce costs.

Anyways I mustard you on that beautiful Friday 😘


----------



## 3venflow

Another big success:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504816861602586625
Semi-related due to the ownership:

*ROH: Supercard of Honor
Apr 01, 2022 7:00 PM
Curtis Culwell Center, Garland, TX*

Available Tickets => 729
Current Setup/Capacity => 1,889
Tickets Distributed => 1,160

Tickets sold have gone from 640 to 1,160 since TK's announcement.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> So reducing the y/y by 100k makes basically no growth then?
> 
> just want to show that it is easy to write the narrative of growth, like every WWE hater says they only grow in money because they reduce costs.
> 
> Anyways I mustard you on that beautiful Friday 😘


yeah, i would say in terms of ratings in the USA there is no growth - or low growth - like 100k as mentioned / which is nothing

conversely, their international foorprint has grown leaps and bounds with more tv deals outside USA, and i don’t think anybody can argue the growth of their physical ticket sales

so, i think their position is pretty good


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DaSlacker said:


> I think it's just WWE having a sizable older audience who get their share of wrestling from SmackDown, Raw and NXT. Three long running shows with a combined total of 7 hours of running time. By the time Wednesday comes along they have been too overindulged to jump ship. Plus it's not like AEW is a wildly different creative animal- like a ECW circa 1994, UWFi or Lucha Underground. Neither is it a lot more intelligent than the other wresting shows. It's a tough cookie to crack.


i can’t argue much with that

which is why i think we are still talking about 2 largely different audiences here - like 70% of AEW fans have no interest in watching WWE and vice versa


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*@LifeInCattleClass What was that you were saying about the "story" for Hardys vs Private Party being sufficient?

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504818230115901467*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *@LifeInCattleClass What was that you were saying about the "story" for Hardys vs Private Party being sufficient?
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504818230115901467*


.............. you think a bunch of over 50s dropped off cause there was not 'sufficient story' for Jeff Hardy's debut? More than likely it was bed time

oh my beautiful Lioness, sometimes my heart breaks for you


----------



## Sad Panda

3venflow said:


> Another big success:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504816861602586625
> Semi-related due to the ownership:
> 
> *ROH: Supercard of Honor
> Apr 01, 2022 7:00 PM
> Curtis Culwell Center, Garland, TX*
> 
> Available Tickets => 729
> Current Setup/Capacity => 1,889
> Tickets Distributed => 1,160
> 
> Tickets sold have gone from 640 to 1,160 since TK's announcement.


that’s gonna be a spectacular crowd.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> .............. you think a bunch of over 50s dropped off cause there was not 'sufficient story' for Jeff Hardy's debut? More than likely it was bed time
> 
> oh my beautiful Lioness, sometimes my heart breaks for you


*Yet they came back for Britt Baker, so your argument fails again.*


----------



## 3venflow

Note the word 'streaming' - could be linked to that HBO Max stuff that was never announced. Andrew Zarian said he still thinks it'll go ahead.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504863855356354567


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Yet they came back for Britt Baker, so your argument fails again.*


the old people woke up from their nap obvs

you also realise that you just admitted Britt vs Thunder had a great story that can draw the viewers in - thanks for giving TK all the praise


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the old people woke up from their nap obvs
> 
> you also realise that you just admitted Britt vs Thunder had a great story that can draw the viewers in - thanks for giving TK all the praise


*Wrong. They tuned in for a stipulation title match while looking forward to a title change in the challenger's hometown. The booking of the feud, especially given their history, was complete garbage. *


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504878574653919238

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Wrong. They tuned in for a stipulation title match while looking forward to a title change in the challenger's hometown. The booking of the feud, especially given their history, was complete garbage. *


they still drew that sweet bump in over 50s - something was done right

its ok to admit it

me and TK accept you


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they still drew that sweet bump in over 50s - something was done right
> 
> its ok to admit it
> 
> me and TK accept you


*Yeah, the two women involved were luckily still riding on clout from a year old match. That has absolutely nothing to do with Tony Clown's poor presentation of the feud.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Yeah, the two women involved were luckily still riding on clout from a year old match. That has absolutely nothing to do with Tony Clown's poor presentation of the feud.*


luckily he has the great Hangman / Adam Cole story which got them that very good opening rating

thanks TK! Thanks Hangman!


----------



## Mister Sinister

The Legit Lioness said:


> *@LifeInCattleClass What was that you were saying about the "story" for Hardys vs Private Party being sufficient?
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504818230115901467*


Wardlow is the reason for the season.

There you have it. Proof in black and white that the audience responds in real time to shitty booking. They were going strong until the real main event was over (Wardlow vs Sky) and they turned the show off in disgust at AEW for putting the company's biggest draw under with Russo-like shenanigans.

The show ended with that match for over 100k. That's a 100k of the general audience who tuned in for Wardlow.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Mister Sinister said:


> Wardlow is the reason for the season.
> 
> There you have it. Proof in black and white that the audience responds in real time to shitty booking. They were going strong until the real main event was over (Wardlow vs Sky) and they turned the show off in disgust at AEW for putting the company's biggest draw under with Russo-like shenanigans.


*I won't deny that the horrible booking of Wardlow and MJF caused people to turn off the television in droves, but if the Hardys had a meaningful segment instead of a throwaway match with no build, some of them would've stayed.*



LifeInCattleClass said:


> luckily he has the great Hangman / Adam Cole story which got them that very good opening rating
> 
> thanks TK! Thanks Hangman!


*Thank Big Bang Theory for carrying them to a less embarrassing drop that would've happened later in the show.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Thank Big Bang Theory for carrying them to a less embarrassing drop that would've happened later in the show.*


its a great thing they have the amazing Jericho Appreciation Society story that got them that nice rating bump in the middle

Thanks Jericho! thanks TK!


----------



## ClintDagger

MrOrange100 said:


> The way these tv ratings get ranked by the key demo alone is ridiculous. I know that a key demo viewer is more important to advertisers than an older viewer but it’s not an all or nothing thing. For example, on Wednesday night Tucker Carlson’s show got 4 times the total viewership of Dynamite. There is no way that Tucker should be ranked behind Dynamite because it did slightly worse in the key demo.


The key demo stat is actually pretty worthless. It is just the easiest demo stat to track and it keeps FNC from dominating the rankings. The demos that advertisers actually care about are income and education level. The wrestling fan demo is by & large low income and low education level which is why their programming attracts bottom of the barrel advertisers like fast food, junk food, bargain insurance, and bargain cell phones. You aren’t going to see BMW, Rolex, Tag, etcetera advertising on wrestling because of the demos. The key demo stuff is almost a myth compared to what actually matters to advertisers.

Now that’s not to say that Wrestling programming doesn’t have value. It certainly does in the way of rights fees. But the demos have no bearing on that. Raw viewership is what matters.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its a great thing they have the amazing Jericho Appreciation Society story that got them that nice rating bump in the middle
> 
> Thanks Jericho! thanks TK!


*Yes, thank Vince McMahon for Sports Entertainment saving this terrible "pro wrestling" show.*


----------



## TD Stinger

Guys guys you’re all missing the point in the viewership drop.

The viewers clearly went away because they too were dumbfounded that Scorpio Sky of all people pinned Wardlow, which this justifies my rant thread.


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Yeah, the two women involved were luckily still riding on clout from a year old match. That has absolutely nothing to do with Tony Clown's poor presentation of the feud.*


Yeah honestly it wasn’t good and Rosa/DMD done right could have main evented AEW’s Revolution PPV instead of Cole/Page and everyone would see it as deserved.
But the feud had random build that didn’t make sense (DMD hiring Martinez to take out Rosa? wouldn’t it be better for her for Rosa to be TBS champ and fucks off from fighting her?)


----------



## omaroo

TK really hates DQ finishes doesn't he even when it makes the most sense.

Can't blame people tuning out after that terrible finish as who the hell would believe that jobber scorpio sky would have any chance lol.

AEWS booking decisions are getting ridiculous now.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> Yeah honestly it wasn’t good and Rosa/DMD done right could have main evented AEW’s Revolution PPV instead of Cole/Page and everyone would see it as deserved.
> But the feud had random build that didn’t make sense (DMD hiring Martinez to take out Rosa? wouldn’t it be better for her for Rosa to be TBS champ and fucks off from fighting her?)


*Exactly! That was just as stupid as MJF costing himself a free TNT reign.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Tony Khan and Chris Jericho taking an obvious piss on 'sports entertainment' (to the idiotic Vince's expense plus his horrid vision) getting high ratings for this week is quite hilarious to see 😂


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Yes, thank Vince McMahon for Sports Entertainment saving this terrible "pro wrestling" show.*


thank you daddy McVince for Logan Paul, Long term storytelling, Ronda and Charlotte main eventings and hopefully Sasha getting away from the undercard

thanks mrMcVince for giving us sports entertainment and for giving Jericho all his best ideas and none of his bad ones

may tiny Khan one day be responsible for all the good like you, and not just the bad like he is currenly

in WWEs super smackdown name, we acknowledge tribal chiefs

ahem


----------



## Chip Chipperson

3venflow said:


> Another big success:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504816861602586625
> Semi-related due to the ownership:
> 
> *ROH: Supercard of Honor
> Apr 01, 2022 7:00 PM
> Curtis Culwell Center, Garland, TX*
> 
> Available Tickets => 729
> Current Setup/Capacity => 1,889
> Tickets Distributed => 1,160
> 
> Tickets sold have gone from 640 to 1,160 since TK's announcement.


Yeah, again it's being dishonest to make AEW look good though.

1.1 million dollars is the highest gate apart from WWE but only due to inflation. For example, WCW did a 2022 equivalent of just under 1.6 million as their highest gate and they did this many many times.

So yes, technically true but many goal posts and other factors ignored simply to give AEW a win (Not uncommon unfortunately)


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> thank you daddy McVince for Logan Paul, Long term storytelling, Ronda and Charlotte main eventings and hopefully Sasha getting away from the undercard
> 
> thanks mrMcVince for giving us sports entertainment and for giving Jericho all his best ideas and none of his bad ones
> 
> may tiny Khan one day be responsible for all the good like you, and not just the bad like he is currenly
> 
> in WWEs super smackdown name, we acknowledge tribal chiefs
> 
> ahem


*Now you get it!*


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, again it's being dishonest to make AEW look good though.
> 
> 1.1 million dollars is the highest gate apart from WWE but only due to inflation. For example, WCW did a 2022 equivalent of just under 1.6 million as their highest gate and they did this many many times.
> 
> So yes, technically true but many goal posts and other factors ignored simply to give AEW a win (Not uncommon unfortunately)




I was gonna say, there's no way that is a bigger number than what WCW was doing in 1997-98 accounting for inflation. Goldberg/Hogan was like 40,000 in the Georgia Dome and that was just a Nitro. 


But hey, I don't wanna shit on the parade. I'm glad to hear AEW is selling out their PPVs. Now if only they would have an interesting world champion... I used to always be in Las Vegas every year for the WSOP right during that date but I haven't been there since 2019. Otherwise I would probably go myself.


----------



## Dr. Middy

FYI, expect poor ratings for Rampage, for a legitimate excuse this time for once. 

The show didn't come on for me until 11:45PM, so they got pushed back even a little more thanks to the NCAA tournament stuff.


----------



## Teemu™

Dr. Middy said:


> FYI, expect poor ratings for Rampage, for a legitimate excuse this time for once.
> 
> The show didn't come on for me until 11:45PM, so they got pushed back even a little more thanks to the NCAA tournament stuff.


AEW fans always with the excuses. The excuses are always ready, without fail.


----------



## La Parka

Teemu™ said:


> AEW fans always with the excuses. The excuses are always ready, without fail.


All AEW needs is for the world to have no news and no other television shows be on and AEW will have a valid rating.


----------



## DammitChrist

I don't see any actual excuses for their numbers. I just see valid reasons that are consistently brought up.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Teemu™ said:


> AEW fans always with the excuses. The excuses are always ready, without fail.





La Parka said:


> All AEW needs is for the world to have no news and no other television shows be on and AEW will have a valid rating.


I never make excuses for their ratings really, but for once I think this is legitimately a reason why they'll be lower. How many successful shows air near midnight on a Friday night? 

If they aired at 2am, would it still be AEW's fault for not having the same 500-600K people watching Rampage?


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Holy fuck that is bad.


----------



## La Parka

Dr. Middy said:


> I never make excuses for their ratings really, but for once I think this is legitimately a reason why they'll be lower. How many successful shows air near midnight on a Friday night?
> 
> If they aired at 2am, would it still be AEW's fault for not having the same 500-600K people watching Rampage?


This week is a valid excuse, at least for rampage but the whole 

“people are watching survivor, the challenge, the news, reruns of different strokes” narrative is always humorous because there’s literally something going on every week.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> View attachment 118894
> 
> 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
> 
> Holy fuck that is bad.


Yikes, dude; it was on AT MIDNIGHT with a 15-17 minute delay.


----------



## Teemu™

DammitChrist said:


> Yikes, dude; it was on AT MIDNIGHT with a 15-17 minute delay.


Nice excuses. AEW sucks and you know it, and no we have proof.


----------



## DammitChrist

I give valid *reasons.*


----------



## VitoCorleoneX

DammitChrist said:


> I give valid *reasons.*


Just agree with him and move on bro.
AEW sucks!!!


----------



## Teemu™

If a show is good, you go out of your way to watch it.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Teemu™ said:


> If a show s good, you go out of your way to watch it.


I do tend to agree a little bit here especially since Rampage is on a Friday.


----------



## midgetlover69

Maybe if AEW was popular and exciting like march madness it wouldnt be pushed to a dead time slot anytime anything else is on tv


----------



## thorn123

Can someone tell me why Citizen Kane, It’s a Wonderful Life and Big Trouble in Little China bombed at the Box office?

That is the answer why AEW isn’t killing it in the ratings.


----------



## thorn123

.


----------



## ProjectGargano

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> View attachment 118894
> 
> 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
> 
> Holy fuck that is bad.


I was expecting worse, a taped show at Midnight in a Friday? I was expecting something like 250k.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

This rating means nothing, lads. 

Although next week someone can joke about whoever's in the main event being a huge draw for getting the ratings back up.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> I do tend to agree a little bit here especially since Rampage is on a Friday.


Well, they could air advertise and air a live fuck flick of Britt Baker and Jade Cargill, but if it is on a Friday or Saturday, I won’t be watching until at least Monday or Tuesday. Weekends are the only time my wife and I have to ourselves, and I’m not going to spend it sitting at home watching wrestling. We’re out and about, at the movies, a dinner or bar with friends, or maybe even on the couch just watching something SHE enjoys.

I hate that Friday night time slot.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> maybe even on the couch just watching something SHE enjoys.


Nah man, you got to alpha dog her and tell her you're putting the Dub on whether she likes it or not.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nah man, you got to alpha dog her and tell her you're putting the Dub on whether she likes it or not.


She’d be fine if I chose to do that, but after being a boat for 3 weeks, I’m not spending my one or two evenings without the kiddos staring at our 4 walls.

I may be old, but I’m still young at heart. Lol


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewership: 398,000
18-49 demo: 0.13

The lowest numbers for Rampage to date for obvious reasons (11:48pm - 12:47am).


----------



## Erik.

Rampage.

This Week - 398,000 - (.13)

Last Week - 526,000 - (.22)


Getting nearly 400k at near enough midnight on a Friday night is exceptional when you consider that's what TNT wanted for Dynamite in prime time.


----------



## Mike E

It's kind of amazing that show had 400k live viewers from midnight till 1am. I wasn't one of them, I watched it on fight the next day.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Erik. said:


> Rampage.
> 
> This Week - 398,000 - (.13)
> 
> Last Week - 526,000 - (.22)
> 
> 
> Getting nearly 400k at near enough midnight on a Friday night is exceptional when you consider that's what TNT wanted for Dynamite in prime time.


That's utterly fucking ridiculous lmao. There is zero evidence that TNT only expected or were happy with 400k for Dynamite other than Meltzer who's on the fuckin payroll.


----------



## Erik.

RainmakerV2 said:


> That's utterly fucking ridiculous lmao. There is zero evidence that TNT only expected or were happy with 400k for Dynamite other than Meltzer who's on the fuckin payroll.


Why is it ridiculous? 

There were people at the time in response to Meltzers words saying that they doubt they would be able to keep up a 400k average. 

Mostly due to TNT having absolutely nothing in the top 50 or getting anywhere near that sort of viewership in that particular time slot. Mixed in with wresrling not being popular and AEW having absolutely no name value at all. 

I don't believe TNT were expecting it to stay at 400k and showing no growth over their period of the deal. But I think as a starting point? Absolutely. 

Either way, to even get 400k at midnight is ridiculously good on a Friday night for a taped show that had that card.


----------



## CovidFan

RainmakerV2 said:


> That's utterly fucking ridiculous lmao. There is zero evidence that TNT only expected or were happy with 400k for Dynamite other than Meltzer who's on the fuckin payroll.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Erik. said:


> Why is it ridiculous?
> 
> There were people at the time in response to Meltzers words saying that they doubt they would be able to keep up a 400k average.
> 
> Mostly due to TNT having absolutely nothing in the top 50 or getting anywhere near that sort of viewership in that particular time slot. Mixed in with wresrling not being popular and AEW having absolutely no name value at all.
> 
> I don't believe TNT were expecting it to stay at 400k and showing no growth over their period of the deal. But I think as a starting point? Absolutely.
> 
> Either way, to even get 400k at midnight is ridiculously good on a Friday night for a taped show that had that card.



Which is why they kicked it to the Seinfield rerun network for Hockey. Right?


----------



## Erik.

RainmakerV2 said:


> Which is why they kicked it to the Seinfield rerun network for Hockey. Right?


Theyre getting better numbers on average on that Network, so I doubt they're complaining.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506286578058076161

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506286578058076161
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*Good for Keith Lee to get a main event gain at an awful hour like that.*


----------



## Erik.

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506286578058076161
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Keith Lee and Max Caster bringing in that little bump at like 1am. 

Good for them.


----------



## 3venflow

Tony will have to stack this Rampage card:

*All Elite Wrestling Presents Rampage
Fri • Jun 03 • 6:00 PM
Toyota Arena, Ontario, CA*

Available Tickets => 86
Current Setup/Capacity => 7,355
Tickets Distributed => 7,269 (98.8%)

They've also extended capacity to the 6/29 Dynamite/Rampage to over 10k. 

*AEW Presents "Dynamite/Rampage"
Wed • Jun 29 • 7:00 PM
Little Caesars Arena, Detroit, MI*

Available Tickets => 2,115
Current Setup/Capacity => 10,843
Tickets Distributed => 8,728

And the big one at The Forum:

*AEW Presents "Dynamite"
Wed • Jun 01 • 4:00 PM
The Forum, Inglewood, CA*

Available Tickets => 223
Current Setup/Capacity => 12,794
Tickets Distributed => 12,571 (98.3%)

June is going to be a huge month for AEW.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 1,046,000
18-49: 0.41

#3 on cable behind only NBA. Highest viewership and key demo since 9th February.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 1,046,000
> 18-49: 0.41
> 
> #3 on cable behind only NBA.


nice

0.41 is a banging demo too

the young peeps love the DUB


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*That awful show put them back above a mil lol

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507086964754890752*


----------



## RoganJosh

Back over a million. Good shit. Excellent demo as well.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Goddammit, the Draw Order struck again.


----------



## Kishido

Good numbers but show was bad


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

GNKenny said:


> Goddammit, the Draw Order struck again.


Draw Order is best for Business

Main Event Hungiee


----------



## Prosper

Wow that card is what got them over a mil. I think the show delivered given the card going in, especially Hour 1 which was stellar.

Punk/Dax, the 8 man tag, and the MJF/Wardlow segment were all A+ for TV. The Blackpool Combat match and segment was also well done. It was the women that were the low point last night with a boring main event to cap it off, but Jericho is still a big name and I'm sure he retained viewers. I gave the show a 6.5/10.

That demo looking sexy though.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> nice
> 
> 0.41 is a banging demo too
> 
> the young peeps love the DUB


*Your precious demo will be challenged by NXTitties soon!*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Your precious demo will be challenged by NXTitties soon!*


lol… not if they keep Nikita on the bench each week - she the only threat 2.0 has

TK gonna throw money at her at some point


----------



## Erik.

This Week - 1,046,000 - (.41)

Last Week - 993,000 - (.38)

Last Year - 757,000 - (.30)


Phew, AEW lives to see another day!

Can’t wait to see how they’ll be dead in 6 months this week.


----------



## ProjectGargano

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Your precious demo will be challenged by NXTitties soon!*


Although it have the same numbers 0.41 is very distant from 0.14.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ProjectGargano said:


> Although it have the same numbers 0.41 is very distant from 0.14.


Nikita’s titties be making @The Legit Lioness cross-eyed

he mixes the numbers up XD


----------



## DammitChrist

As usual, AEW continues to show more growth 

I honestly love to see it


----------



## Outlaw91

DammitChrist said:


> As usual, AEW continues to show more growth
> 
> I honestly love to see it


Did they sign more people recently?


----------



## DammitChrist

I found this interesting statistic from someone else moments ago:


----------



## Geeee

DammitChrist said:


> I found this interesting statistic from someone else moments ago:


Makes sense. These are currently the biggest parts of the show. Except surprised by no CM Punk


----------



## Erik.

Geeee said:


> Makes sense. These are currently the biggest parts of the show. Except surprised by no CM Punk


He's missed 2 of the previous 3 weeks, that's why.


----------



## TD Stinger




----------



## Geeee

I'd like to say that Jericho tanked the ratings but that Q7 was pretty rough, so probably a lot of people left then.

Thunder Rosa's big moment and instead we get to listen to Vickie Guerrero...


----------



## Garty

Not surprised at the main-event drop-off in that quarter hour.


----------



## Prosper

Really sharp dropoff for the 8 man tag and a lot didn't care for the main event, but good to see they stayed over a mil for the whole show prior to the last 15 minutes.

Conti/Guevara actually gained viewers 😂


----------



## DammitChrist

Geeee said:


> I'd like to say that Jericho tanked the ratings but that Q7 was pretty rough, so probably a lot of people left then.
> 
> Thunder Rosa's big moment and instead we get to listen to Vickie Guerrero...


Yea, if you look at the demographic chart, that significant drop for the 7th quarter occurred before the main event even started. I can see some folks getting irritated by Vickie Guerrero shrieking with that voice 

In hindsight though, that women’s match needed a top name advertised for the slot that they were in since Leyla Hirsch is a heatless midcarder (at best), and Red Velvet is presented as a low-midcarder.


----------



## Sad Panda

I do think it’s funny when AEW scores a good rating this thread is as dead as a door nail.


----------



## Erik.

Monster lead in.


----------



## La Parka

Sad Panda said:


> I do think it’s funny when AEW scores a good rating this thread is as dead as a door nail.


I’m not sure I’d call losing 300k viewers from start to finish a “good” rating


----------



## 3venflow

Q1 to Q2 is nearly always going to have a considerable drop, especially now they have a lead-in like the BBT.

Here's the % gains/losses. The show deserved that late fall really, it was by far the weakest portion of the two hours and everything before the Tay/Sammy segment was decent to good. Not sure why Dark Order are headlining in 2022. I wouldn't have minded so much if it was a segue to LAX appearing, but it was just JAS getting a straightforward win before the cameras stopped rolling.

TK is very reliant on Dark Order and Best Friends as babyface enhancement talent, but should look to diversify that as both groups (more so DO) have been jobbed to death. Jay Lethal is an example of high-level midcard talent, though deserves some noteworthy wins between those televised losses before he becomes Sydal mk2 (ie. he could've beaten KoR or Fish on the Rampage before he faced Cole on Dynamite).


----------



## Sad Panda

La Parka said:


> I’m not sure I’d call losing 300k viewers from start to finish a “good” rating


Clearly the usual folk who would be gathering in this thread with bullhorns, pitch forks and torches don’t see it as a bad enough rating then.


----------



## Mr316

Well let’s be honest here. The only reason why this show did over 1 million viewers is because of the lead in.


----------



## RainmakerV2

How do you have Jon Moxley and Bryan Danielson lose you viewers. Facepalm.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Adam Page with the #1 gain of the night, a massive 28k gain at that. The cowboy showing how shit's done!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> Well let’s be honest here. The only reason why this show did over 1 million viewers is because of the lead in.


how do you figure?

all Qs besides the last one was over a million - average would’ve been over a million


----------



## Aedubya

Brilliant @ both


----------



## Randy Lahey

Erik. said:


> This Week - 1,046,000 - (.41)
> 
> Last Week - 993,000 - (.38)
> 
> Last Year - 757,000 - (.30)
> 
> 
> Phew, AEW lives to see another day!
> 
> Can’t wait to see how they’ll be dead in 6 months this week.


0.41 is a huge jump over last year, plus average viewers way up. Contrast that with Raw, that can't even beat the Thunderdome shows from last year in their peak season.

AEW is killing it. All they gotta do is maintain these numbers because Raw is dropping every year.


----------



## Randy Lahey

TD Stinger said:


>


Looks like people are getting tired of BD/Mox killing jobbers. That's a bad drop there.
And no surprise the women matched tanked as well. Just get rid of these girls Tony. The young people don't want to watch womens wrestling. Old WWE fans do. Young AEW fans don't.


----------



## fabi1982

TD Stinger said:


>


And people will tell you Punk is a draw, not even trying to think about TBBT intro. Again showing they cant hold an audience not being hardcore AEW fans. Jericho losing both P2 and demo sad. And the so paraded million viewers again is down to TBBT, what an achievement with Punk, Mox, Bryan, Cole, Page, your womens champ, Jericho on TV...


----------



## Irish Jet

Randy Lahey said:


> Looks like people are getting tired of BD/Mox killing jobbers. That's a bad drop there.
> And no surprise the women matched tanked as well. Just get rid of these girls Tony. The young people don't want to watch womens wrestling. Old WWE fans do. Young AEW fans don't.


That does indeed say a lot about the AEW fans lol.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> 0.41 is a huge jump over last year, plus average viewers way up. Contrast that with Raw, that can't even beat the Thunderdome shows from last year in their peak season.
> 
> AEW is killing it. All they gotta do is maintain these numbers because Raw is dropping every year.


Didn't quite say that last week.  .5 in the demo which Raw did for a 3 hour show is a fucking killer.


----------



## Not Lying

I was gona make the joke this show looks exactly like the type of shit that randomly gets good rating and fucks everything up. 



3venflow said:


> View attachment 119084


Was there no ad break in Q1? this helped for sure
Q2 also PiP
drops in Q3-Q4 proba9ly due to the Ad break

and here's the truth we all gona hate, Sammy/Conti's annoying ass drew.
Q5, top of the hour (with Pip) lost viewers from Q4 (people really don't give a shit about Cole huh), but Q6 with an break (not even PiP) got them a bump.

Jericho does well when he's positioned Q4/Q5, he won't make people go but they won't stay till end of a meaningless tag he's involved in.


----------



## VitoCorleoneX

Bad shows = good rating
Good shows = bad rating


----------



## DammitChrist

The Definition of Technician said:


> I was gona make the joke this show looks exactly like the type of shit that randomly gets good rating and fucks everything up.
> 
> 
> 
> Was there no ad break in Q1? this helped for sure
> Q2 also PiP
> drops in Q3-Q4 proba9ly due to the Ad break
> 
> and here's the truth we all gona hate, Sammy/Conti's annoying ass drew.
> Q5, top of the hour (with Pip) lost viewers from Q4 (people really don't give a shit about Cole huh), but Q6 with an break (not even PiP) got them a bump.
> 
> Jericho does well when he's positioned Q4/Q5, he won't make people go but they won't stay till end of a meaningless tag he's involved in.


To be fair, that small dip that occurred onwards from 9:00 PM EST was a pretty minimal difference.

The post-match segment with Adam Cole and Adam Page that occurred after 9:15 PM did see an increase in viewership; so people either remained tuning in for the match, or they came back for the final parts of the match/segment involving 1 of those 2 men.


----------



## Brodus Clay

So that's what audiences want more bad shows? funny how usually the best rated show from people here get the most notable decreases on ratings.


----------



## The XL 2

I don't know why people have been surprised at AEWs success. They should be doing a lot better if anything. WWE has literally run off 3 or so million people in the last 5-7 years. I remember when Bryan got hot and Batista came back Raw would do 4-5 million. They do under 2 million now. Where did all those people go? They didnt just stop liking wrestling. AEW has an opportunity to grab a lot more people


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The XL 2 said:


> I don't know why people have been surprised at AEWs success. They should be doing a lot better if anything. WWE has literally run off 3 or so million people in the last 5-7 years. I remember when Bryan got hot and Batista came back Raw would do 4-5 million. They do under 2 million now. Where did all those people go? They didnt just stop liking wrestling. AEW has an opportunity to grab a lot more people


People pretend to be surprised by AEW's success but reality is most of the people celebrating them getting over a million were expecting them to be competitive with RAW and Smackdown by this point or even beating them. I went back 4 pages to catch up with AEW's ratings just now and saw someone celebrating Rampage getting under 400k saying it was what TNT expected from Dynamite and a great rating. Many AEW fans get absolutely desperate to give AEW a win and will lie, skew stats and fight to give AEW that win.

AEW has the money to get the lapsed fans back but they aren't providing a product that the majority of people find attractive. The stories aren't attractive, the characters don't exist or are boring with no depth, long drawn out modern indy style wrestling matches don't attract the average joe either.


----------



## Ameer Patel

The XL 2 said:


> I don't know why people have been surprised at AEWs success. They should be doing a lot better if anything. WWE has literally run off 3 or so million people in the last 5-7 years. I remember when Bryan got hot and Batista came back Raw would do 4-5 million. They do under 2 million now. Where did all those people go? They didnt just stop liking wrestling. AEW has an opportunity to grab a lot more people


Agreed but its not that simple, those people associate wrestling with WWE - its hard to attract them cos AEW tries to be very different to WWE - Dynamite is too heavy on the matches and Rampage is a bit of a joke now.

Tony's problem is AEW caters to the hardcores so much he's worried about losing his core audience by trying to appeal to the casuals/lapsed WWE fans.


----------



## Aedubya

Great week again


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508534753179414543

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Looks like yet another backfired ANNOUNCEMENT!!!!*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508535424356081674


----------



## DammitChrist

Smackdown losing 15% of their younger (male) demographic viewership in 1 week


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Looks like yet another backfired ANNOUNCEMENT!!!!*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508535424356081674


What was the announcement


----------



## Erik.

This Week - 425,000 - (.14)

Last Week - 398,000 - (.13)

Week Prior - 526,000 - (.22)


Not a good night for Rampage - marginally up from a show that was on at pretty much midnight the previous week. And over 100,000 down in viewership and way down in demographic from the previous week before in the same time slot.


----------



## fabi1982

DammitChrist said:


> Smackdown losing 15% of their younger (male) demographic viewership in 1 week


You see that 10m and 7m NCAA game against SD? Cmon even you should know that this has such an effect. Isnt „challange“ even a normal excuse for ratings decreases on Wednesdays? 

Try harder next time.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> What was the announcement




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507502281503223815
Khan said this on an interview a few hours before Rampage.

And on Rampage they confirmed when and where a new women will be debuting (This week's Dynamite).


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> What was the announcement


*He announced that he will be announcing the debut of the new woman.*


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

fabi1982 said:


> You see that 10m and 7m NCAA game against SD? Cmon even you should know that this has such an effect. Isnt „challange“ even a normal excuse for ratings decreases on Wednesdays?
> 
> Try harder next time.


*They cry about game show reruns when Dynamite tanks, but laugh at WWE for losing miniscule viewership against titanic competition. It's embarrassing tbh.*


----------



## DammitChrist

fabi1982 said:


> You see that 10m and 7m NCAA game against SD? Cmon even you should know that this has such an effect. Isnt „challange“ even a normal excuse for ratings decreases on Wednesdays?
> 
> Try harder next time.


Yikes, now you're giving embarrassing excuses too.

At least this is how it works apparently.

Edit:

They somehow did worse than their episode last year for pre-Wrestlemania week back when they were still in the ThunderDome 😂


----------



## the_hound

goal posts moved, deflections shields up and whataboutery is in full effect............rampage must have done a shit rating.


----------



## DammitChrist

the_hound said:


> goal posts moved, deflections shields up and whataboutery is in full effect............rampage must have done a shit rating.


Nah, Smackdown's failure is hilarious 😂


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

the_hound said:


> goal posts moved, deflections shields up and whataboutery is in full effect............rampage must have done a shit rating.


*425,000 viewers with yet another MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT!!11!! teased on the radio. No one's taking the bait anymore. *


----------



## Dr. Middy

That rating flat out sucks. 

I actually like Rampage for what it is, but it's a B show, and the interest isn't there.


----------



## Irish Jet

Two awful shows doing awful ratings in a dying industry. Shocker.


----------



## Garty

Dr. Middy said:


> That rating flat out sucks.
> 
> I actually like Rampage for what it is, but it's a B show, and the interest isn't there.


It's time to re-tool the format. It's either got to go live, or put together a taped show that people need to see. It doesn't have to be Dynamite level, but it also has to be better than DARK. I don't believe either of these "solutions" will help the viewership increase (day/time-slot notwithstanding), but it's obvious something needs to change before they go even lower.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508840153871265798

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dr. Middy said:


> That rating flat out sucks.
> 
> I actually like Rampage for what it is, but it's a B show, and the interest isn't there.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508840153871265798
*The spike came during the women's segment, so about 40,000 people expected something of value from the ANNOUNCEMENT of the ANNOUNCEMENT. *


----------



## 3venflow

An update on the rumoured streaming service. Sounds like Warner are on board with the idea, the question being the how and where (HBO Max or an original Warner/AEW streaming platform?).

-

Tony Khan recently appeared on Strong Style Live. There, the AEW boss talked about the acquisition of Ring of Honor and how discussions are going about a streaming platform. Khan said he is having a lot of complex discussions with WarnerMedia about where AEW’s library will eventually wind up.



> _“I don’t have an update on where that content will live exactly yet, but I know that eventually, we’ll get it figured out. We’re talking to WarnerMedia all the time and these are very complex and important conversations to have. But I think everybody’s aligned and wants to do the same thing, which is, make the fans happy and give the fans access to the great wrestling they want to watch.”_


AEW recently trademarked the phrase “Watch Your Wrestling.” It is one of Khan’s favorite responses when asked about the competition between WWE and AEW. Khan could be planning to use the phrase to promote or even name the AEW streaming service.

Time will tell where the AEW and ROH libraries end up. Fans have been waiting a long time to get their hands on all that footage in one place. Tony Khan wants to make sure he gets the right deal before committing to anything.









Tony Khan Having Complex Discussions With WarnerMedia For AEW Streaming Service


AEW fans have been waiting since day one for the company to launch a streaming service. The recent acquisition of Ring of Honor added decades to their




www.ringsidenews.com


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508840153871265798
> *The spike came during the women's segment, so about 40,000 people expected something of value from the ANNOUNCEMENT of the ANNOUNCEMENT. *


40,000 people

that is like 1 person with a Nielson box

.... Legit.... did you change the channel during the women's match? XD XD XD


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> An update on the rumoured streaming service. Sounds like Warner are on board with the idea, the question being the how and where (HBO Max or an original Warner/AEW streaming platform?).
> 
> -
> 
> Tony Khan recently appeared on Strong Style Live. There, the AEW boss talked about the acquisition of Ring of Honor and how discussions are going about a streaming platform. Khan said he is having a lot of complex discussions with WarnerMedia about where AEW’s library will eventually wind up.
> 
> 
> 
> AEW recently trademarked the phrase “Watch Your Wrestling.” It is one of Khan’s favorite responses when asked about the competition between WWE and AEW. Khan could be planning to use the phrase to promote or even name the AEW streaming service.
> 
> Time will tell where the AEW and ROH libraries end up. Fans have been waiting a long time to get their hands on all that footage in one place. Tony Khan wants to make sure he gets the right deal before committing to anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony Khan Having Complex Discussions With WarnerMedia For AEW Streaming Service
> 
> 
> AEW fans have been waiting since day one for the company to launch a streaming service. The recent acquisition of Ring of Honor added decades to their
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ringsidenews.com


the big money is in having a service that is a destination for all 'non-wwe' wrestling

a service of Impact library, NJPW library, ROH, Stardom, All Japan, AEW - just 'destination wrestling' 

if they can pull something like that or similar off, it would be great

that is what I always thought the Fed would attempt / but their heads are too far up their asses


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 40,000 people
> 
> that is like 1 person with a Nielson box
> 
> .... Legit.... did you change the channel during the women's match? XD XD XD


*I was following the segments on Twitter, but @Erik. said anyone who tuned in for a women's wrestling announcement is an idiot. The joke is on him though, because Tony would've been under 400 k without that ANNOUNCEMENT!*


LifeInCattleClass said:


> the big money is in having a service that is a destination for all 'non-wwe' wrestling
> 
> a service of Impact library, NJPW library, ROH, Stardom, All Japan, AEW - just 'destination wrestling'
> 
> if they can pull something like that or similar off, it would be great
> 
> that is what I always thought the Fed would attempt / but their heads are too far up their asses


*Stardom already has Stardom World, but I would love an easily accessible American option like Peacock.*


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

The Legit Lioness said:


> *They cry about game show reruns when Dynamite tanks, but laugh at WWE for losing miniscule viewership against titanic competition. It's embarrassing tbh.*


Raw's ratings are pretty embarrassing too tbh


----------



## Erik.

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I was following the segments on Twitter, but @Erik. said anyone who tuned in for a women's wrestling announcement is an idiot. The joke is on him though, because Tony would've been under 400 k without that ANNOUNCEMENT!*


Where did Khan confirm that they would be announcing a new debutant on Rampage?


----------



## La Parka

Rampage needs better cards and should always be live.

taped wrestling shows should’ve been a thing of the past when the internet started to become popular. If anything big happens, you’ll hear about it somewhere.


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> Rampage needs better cards and should always be live.
> 
> taped wrestling shows should’ve been a thing of the past when the internet started to become popular. If anything big happens, you’ll hear about it somewhere.


Yea, live Rampage numbers tend to do better in the viewership anyway.


----------



## 3venflow

The main issue with going live for Rampage is they practically double their number of live events. Right now they run the occasional live Rampage, but doing it every week would require a lot more work. One idea is to do what they have before and double book the same building for Dynamite and Rampage, offering a combo ticket and remaining in the same city (this could be unpopular with some of the talent as a big appeal with AEW is guys usually work once a week). But unless Rampage events can all be profitable, then I can understand Khan's reluctance - selling a one-hour show to paying customers could be challenging in some areas (or do ROH before/after it?). If Rampage got two hours and a better timeslot, it'd be different.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Raw's ratings are pretty embarrassing too tbh


*They were until the Tribal Chief and Sasha Banks saved them. Thank you for bringing that up!*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508899170995818500

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508914143121883142


----------



## 3venflow

It seems like they could shrink the stage for The Forum show as they're opening seats further behind it than usual.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508931091654225928


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> It seems like they could shrink the stage for The Forum show as they're opening seats further behind it than usual.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508931091654225928


Nice.

That's going to look awesome.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Hot damn, Vinny Mac is busting out some of his old predator moves with this one.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508849340881715200


----------



## Aedubya

GNKenny said:


> Hot damn, Vinny Mac is busting out some of his old predator moves with this one.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508849340881715200


What's the significance? Thanks


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Aedubya said:


> What's the significance? Thanks


An old Vince McMahon trick is to go after people's buildings. As in shut them out and prevent them from running it.

Not exactly the same thing since they're running it themselves, I just wanted to make that joke. They are, however, clearly shook over AEW putting 20K in there.

The fed? Fuck it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

GNKenny said:


> An old Vince McMahon trick is to go after people's buildings. As in shut them out and prevent them from running it.
> 
> Not exactly the same thing since they're running it themselves, I just wanted to make that joke. They are, however, clearly shook over AEW putting 20K in there.
> 
> The fed? Fuck it.


vince’ll learn soon enough Chicago is AEW country

new york and london to follow


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

The Legit Lioness said:


> *They were until the Tribal Chief and Sasha Banks saved them. Thank you for bringing that up!*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508899170995818500
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508914143121883142


Under 2 million viewers for the Wrestlemania Go-Home show? Gross.


----------



## Erik.

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Under 2 million viewers for the Wrestlemania Go-Home show? Gross.


First time in its 29 year history that a Raw go home show before Mania (filmed infront of an audience so not including pandemic) has ever been below two million.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Under 2 million viewers for the Wrestlemania Go-Home show? Gross.


*+200k* *week to week is better than routinely dropping below 1 million after signing 10 free agents since last summer. Punk, Bryan, and Jeff Hardy made no difference in ratings. Britt Baker was doing 1.1 million by herself last summer. That's embarrassing for you.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Erik. said:


> First time in its 29 year history that a Raw go home show before Mania (filmed infront of an audience so not including pandemic) has ever been below two million.


Yep, that’s beyond embarrassing for the biggest program for this weekend.

I’m pretty sure that the Ricochet vs Sami Zayn match was drawing similar ratings just a few weeks ago.

Dynamite or even Rampage can’t relate since neither show has lost millions of viewers over the past several years.


----------



## Erik.

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, that’s beyond embarrassing for the biggest program for this weekend.
> 
> I’m pretty sure that the Sami Zayn vs Ricochet match was drawing similar ratings just a few weeks ago.
> 
> Dynamite or even Rampage can’t relate since neither show has lost millions of viewers over the past several years.


Well as I have proven numerous times, AEW is the only wrestling company in North America that on average has proven to have grown its younger demographic and viewership year on year.

I hope they have a good Mania though. Its just a shame they've had to bring back yet another star from 25 years ago to sell tickets.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

The Legit Lioness said:


> *+200k* *week to week is better than routinely dropping below 1 million after signing 10 free agents since last summer. Punk, Bryan, and Jeff Hardy made no difference in ratings. Britt Baker was doing 1.1 million by herself last summer. That's embarrassing for you.*


I mean no shit. I wasn't comparing the two. But for all of WWE's resources and history that's an ungodly bad number.


----------



## Prosper

The Legit Lioness said:


> +200k week to week is better than routinely dropping below 1 million after signing 10 free agents since last summer. Punk, Bryan, and Jeff Hardy made no difference in ratings. *Britt Baker was doing 1.1 million by herself last summer*. That's embarrassing for you.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


>


*Problem? Britt carried this shit show while the Bucks and Omega were flopping.







*


----------



## DammitChrist

Yikes, I'm pretty sure Dynamite had a special episode last summer (aka Fight for the Fallen) where they opened with a 10-man Elimination tag match that drew 1.4+ million views, and that contest had Kenny Omega plus the Young Bucks too for a great portion of it.

Their highly-rated quarter(s) on that night alone beats most of the other AEW segments/matches throughout its short history ratings-wise so far.


----------



## Prosper

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Problem? Britt carried this shit show while the Bucks and Omega were flopping.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Wrestling is a male dominated sport and always has been. There's no way you can objectively say without a grin on your face that one person, a woman at that, is bringing in all of those viewers by herself lol. The entire audience is tuning in for 2 hours waiting on a 5 minute Britt segment or SOLELY for the women who have always been historically below average for the most part? Come on my guy lol. 😂 There has to be a line with your stan-ing. Everyone plays a part. And the Elite didn't flop, all metrics were up YoY during their reign and PPV buy rates only increased.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> Wrestling is a male dominated sport and always has been. There's no way you can objectively say without a grin on your face that one person, a woman at that, is bringing in all of those viewers by herself lol. The entire audience is tuning in for 2 hours waiting on a 5 minute Britt segment or SOLELY for the women who have always been historically below average for the most part? Come on my guy lol. 😂 There has to be a line with your stan-ing. Everyone plays a part. And the Elite didn't flop, all metrics were up YoY during their reign and PPV buy rates only increased.


*It's shameful for you to post these lies that have been proven wrong time and time again in this very thread. Britt lead in t shirt/merchandise sales before Punk's arrival:*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1383209537373663235

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437246049295425536*Jade outdrew Moxley, Darby, Bryan, and Hangman in the month of January:*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489694114979274755
*I don't know how many times you need to be bonked on the head with hard evidence of women being the biggest draws in wrestling when used properly, but I'm going to keep doing it everytime you try to rewrite history. *


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Always follow the money - when it gets to CEOs and TV execs their greed will always outweigh anything else

if women were the biggest wrestling draws, we would‘ve seen a prime-time all-women’s promotion by now

we haven’t and thus they don’t

search your heart, you know this to be true

always trust the greed


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## Prosper

The Legit Lioness said:


> *It's shameful for you to post these lies that have been proven wrong time and time again in this very thread. Britt lead in t shirt/merchandise sales before Punk's arrival:*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1383209537373663235
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437246049295425536*Jade outdrew Moxley, Darby, Bryan, and Hangman in the month of January:*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489694114979274755
> *I don't know how many times you need to be bonked on the head with hard evidence of women being the biggest draws in wrestling when used properly, but I'm going to keep doing it everytime you try to rewrite history. *


The women take up 10-15 min max every week, how do you account for the other hour and 45 minutes? The women dominate that too even when not on screen? Of course not. How do you explain the multiple weeks where numbers have consistently stayed over a mil quarter to quarter? People are so infatuated by the women that they keep watching waiting for the next shitty womens match in a show that only books one womens match a week? Of course not.

I’m not saying the women don’t draw, because they do. Yes your favorites obviously draw, not denying that. But to say that they are the only reason AEW is drawing viewers is silly and comes from someone who loves womens wrestling so much that he’s ignoring logic.

98% of wrestling fans are primarily watching wrestling content to see the men beat the shit out of each other, not to watch the women botch at every opportunity.

The women are a nice side dish to the main course. I love Thunder Rosa as much as the next guy but I’m not turning on Dynamite just to wait for her segment. I’m watching the show primarily for what I’ve always watched it for, the men.


----------



## La Parka

Everyone was obviously watching the TMZ type shows recapping the will smith slap durning raw which explains the lower rating.


----------



## YamchaRocks

I think they should give Orange a main event program, he used to draw huge when he feuded with Jericho


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 979,000
18-49: 0.38

Both metrics down from the week before. Like last week, it was third on cable and beaten by only NBA.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## Aedubya

Brilliant rating


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 979,000
> 18-49: 0.38
> 
> Both metrics down from the week before. Like last week, it was third on cable and beaten by only NBA.
> 
> View attachment 119449


dammit - i hate it when they are 21,000 off from being a ‘good show’


----------



## Prosper

Funny how the better shows always get less. 979K and a 0.38 is still good though.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312




----------



## LifeInCattleClass

BestInTheWorld312 said:


>


Laughing cause he’s jobbing to an ex-AEW star soon?

it happens


----------



## Dr. Middy

If they rating is below 1 million, then I must label is a failure on all accounts, and say that I did indeed dislike the show entirely as my preferences and enjoyment are directly tied into overall viewership. I only watch shows which are over one million viewers.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*TONI STORM THE GAME CHANGER!!!

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509624001496240131*


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Prosper said:


> Funny how the better shows always get less. 979K and a 0.38 is still good though.


Gonna sound like a pretentious neckbearded smark here (as usual), but the average fan in the US wants WWE style wrestling where the matches are piss breaks between the entrances/finish. It's the only thing that's been on TV for two generations of wrestling fans. I've even seen some younger people against blood in wrestling and that made me want to go out and buy a cane.

Anyways, if Dynamite was more like last night I'd complain less.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *TONI STORM THE GAME CHANGER!!!
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509624001496240131*


yeah, but the game was Mario and she changed it to Mario 2

its really a reskin, y’know?


----------



## DammitChrist

I'll laugh if there turns out to be a rise in viewership for Toni Storm's match/segment for the weaker 9:30 through 9:45 slot somehow.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

GNKenny said:


> Gonna sound like a pretentious neckbearded smark here (as usual), but the average fan in the US wants WWE style wrestling. It's the only thing that's been on TV for two generations of wrestling fans. I've even seen some younger people against blood in wrestling and that made me want to go out and buy a cane.
> 
> Anyways, if Dynamite was more like last night I'd complain less.


*The show was fine. Only the usual apologists thought Toni Storm would do anything for ratings. If they keep making shows like this, viewership will get marginally better. This looks more like a response to last week's garbage. *


----------



## 3venflow

It finished 8th on all of TV, including the networks. Survivor and Masked Singer were 1 and 2.

Thurston says QH1 was peak as usual, but QH4 and QH8 saw growth.


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Legit Lioness said:


> *TONI STORM THE GAME CHANGER!!!
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509624001496240131*


Today's fine folk appreciate a good ass.


----------



## Sad Panda

BestInTheWorld312 said:


>


I love how you’re always lurking around at 4pm every Thursday just waiting to see if AEW is under a million.


----------



## Sad Panda

3venflow said:


> It finished 8th on all of TV, including the networks. Survivor and Masked Singer were 1 and 2.
> 
> Thurston says QH1 was peak as usual, but QH4 and QH8 saw growth.
> 
> View attachment 119450


At least it beat Domino Masters! Hell yeah!


----------



## Dr. Middy

GNKenny said:


> Gonna sound like a pretentious neckbearded smark here (as usual), but the average fan in the US wants WWE style wrestling where the matches are piss breaks between the entrances/finish. It's the only thing that's been on TV for two generations of wrestling fans. I've even seen some younger people against blood in wrestling and that made me want to go out and buy a cane.
> 
> Anyways, if Dynamite was more like last night I'd complain less.


Which is sad to me.

Honestly the average US fan would probably watch more if the entire show was based around overly dramatic and scripted romance angles. Look at how many shitty romance based reality shows they are now, it's nuts. Hopefully that never happens, because I always feel stupider watching any of those, from The Bachelor, to 90 Day Fiancé, to Temptation Island, and so forth.


----------



## Prosper

GNKenny said:


> Gonna sound like a pretentious neckbearded smark here (as usual), but the average fan in the US wants WWE style wrestling where the matches are piss breaks between the entrances/finish. It's the only thing that's been on TV for two generations of wrestling fans. I've even seen some younger people against blood in wrestling and that made me want to go out and buy a cane.
> 
> Anyways, if Dynamite was more like last night I'd complain less.


It's all most of them are used to, especially the live cable audience. It's unfortunate. As a hardcore though, I much prefer what I am getting on Wednesday nights. I'm sick of the tradition that live TV wrestling has set forth filled with DQ's, rematches, and fuck finishes in matches that do nothing for no one or don't play into some overarching angle.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dr. Middy said:


> Today's fine folk appreciate a good ass.


*Wrong channel Dr. MIDDY!

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508953026798759940







*


----------



## DammitChrist

Prosper said:


> It's all most of them are used to, especially the live cable audience. It's unfortunate. As a hardcore though, I much prefer what I am getting on Wednesday nights. I'm sick of the tradition that live TV wrestling has set forth filled with DQ's, rematches, and fuck finishes in matches that do nothing for no one or don't play into some overarching angle.


Yea, As much as I would LOVE to see AEW get higher ratings (since they deserve it due to their entertaining product), I would personally rather have a great wrestling show that draws around 1 million viewers than have a mediocre sports entertainment program that does around 2 million viewers.

Thankfully, I get most of my wrestling fix from AEW, NJPW, NXT UK, and most of Raw nowadays


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Tony Khan won't like this article 😆*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509634023378731030


----------



## Sad Panda

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Wrong channel Dr. MIDDY!
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508953026798759940
> View attachment 119451
> *


Good lawd. Her body type is such an outlier in wrestling, especially the E. God bless her.


----------



## Erik.

This Week - 979,000 - (.38)

Last Week - 1,046,000 - (. 41)

Last Year - 700,000 - (.26)


Aaaaand AEW are back to being on borrowed time.

RIP


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Sad Panda said:


> Good lawd. Her body type is such an outlier in wrestling, especially the E. God bless her.


*There's a reason they let Toni go without a dispute. They already had her replacement in NXT.







*


----------



## InexorableJourney

Ratings down, I'll bet Eddie Kingston's returned.


----------



## DammitChrist

InexorableJourney said:


> Ratings down, I'll bet Eddie Kingston's returned.


Okay, you got really lucky with the bet here (since Eddie Kingstom coincidentally did return)


----------



## Sad Panda

The Legit Lioness said:


> *There's a reason they let Toni go without a dispute. They already had her replacement in NXT.
> View attachment 119453
> *


That red head could probably open an only fans where she just shows her right cheek that had Lyons ass planted on it, she’d be made in the shade.


----------



## DaSlacker

Is what it is, but it boggles my mind how AEW does about a million viewers and SmackDown does 2 million on a Friday night. I've been watching WWE live for about 6 weeks now, due to WM season. Man was last week's SD difficult to sit through. Wasn't bad - just really really slow and empty. Reminded me of a WCW Saturday Night from the late 90's. Say what you will about AEW, but at least it moves. 

Brand loyalty must be one hell of a drug.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

DaSlacker said:


> Is what it is, but it boggles my mind how AEW does about a million viewers and SmackDown does 2 million on a Friday night. I've been watching WWE live for about 6 weeks now, due to WM season. Man was last week's SD difficult to sit through. Wasn't bad - just really really slow and empty. Reminded me of a WCW Saturday Night from the late 90's. Say what you will about AEW, but at least it moves.
> 
> Brand loyalty must be one hell of a drug.


late 90s Saturday Night would give you stuff like Bobby Eaton vs La Parka, that makes it better than SmackDown.


----------



## DammitChrist

DaSlacker said:


> Is what it is, but it boggles my mind how AEW does about a million viewers and SmackDown does 2 million on a Friday night. I've been watching WWE live for about 6 weeks now, due to WM season. Man was last week's SD difficult to sit through. Wasn't bad - just really really slow and empty. Reminded me of a WCW Saturday Night from the late 90's. Say what you will about AEW, but at least it moves.
> 
> Brand loyalty must be one hell of a drug.


Yea, Smackdown is honestly the worst wrestling show on TV.

It's a perfect example of quantity not automatically equating to quality.


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

3venflow said:


> View attachment 119459


Damn I guess Toni Storm isn't a draw but that is only because she was wearing pants  Viewers saw that and was like nah lol


----------



## Mr316

Imagine spending all that money and you can’t even draw 1 million viewers. 😂


----------



## Erik.

Mr316 said:


> Imagine spending all that money and you can’t even draw 1 million viewers. 😂


You're right.

AEW should close up shop. They're done.


----------



## the_hound

budget cuts makes their debut this coming wednesday


----------



## Randy Lahey

Good on Darby/Andrade bringing some viewers back after the women predictably tanked it. 

Also FTR isn’t really a draw


----------



## Erik.

Randy Lahey said:


> Good on Darby/Andrade bringing some viewers back after the women predictably tanked it.
> 
> Also FTR isn’t really a draw


I think it's probably more Gunn Club.

Their quarters for Rampage were rather poor too, I believe.

I think the main issue with these Dynamite quarters are the fact the ratings tend to be skewed by the big lead-in they get from the Big Bang Theory - wrestling in 2022 is scorched earth, no one is sticking around that long for wrestling if you're not a wrestling fan or unless you've fallen asleep watching the Big Bang Theory. So whilst it looks like Moxley vs. Lethal lost viewers, it was probably just those stragglers from watching the previous show tuning out at some point.

Which is why the ratings tend to level out throughout the show beyond a few hiccups each week.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> View attachment 119459


*Imagine getting your debut hyped for a week just to tank viewers in a shitty wrestling match. I told you she would be a bad signing @LifeInCattleClass. *


----------



## DaSlacker

GNKenny said:


> late 90s Saturday Night would give you stuff like Bobby Eaton vs La Parka, that makes it better than SmackDown.


Haha good point.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509566084717948933🤣


----------



## RainmakerV2

DaSlacker said:


> Is what it is, but it boggles my mind how AEW does about a million viewers and SmackDown does 2 million on a Friday night. I've been watching WWE live for about 6 weeks now, due to WM season. Man was last week's SD difficult to sit through. Wasn't bad - just really really slow and empty. Reminded me of a WCW Saturday Night from the late 90's. Say what you will about AEW, but at least it moves.
> 
> Brand loyalty must be one hell of a drug.



Acknowledge him.


----------



## bdon

Imagine being such a simp you genuinely care about whether your favorite is a draw or not. Do you enjoy wrestler X? Then what the fuck does it fucking matter if they draw ratings, unless your wallet is on the line..?


----------



## DaSlacker

RainmakerV2 said:


> Acknowledge him.


----------



## Teemu™

bdon said:


> Imagine being such a simp you genuinely care about whether your favorite is a draw or not. Do you enjoy wrestler X? Then what the fuck does it fucking matter if they draw ratings, unless your wallet is on the line..?


It's done to prove numbnuts on the internet wrong for saying "X SHOULD BE PUSHED WHY IS X NOT PUSHED VINCE IS OUT OF TOUCH!" You can point to the guy not being a draw as a reason for his lack of push. Also, let's face it: wrestling isn't very good these days, the business aspect is the only interesting part about it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Imagine getting your debut hyped for a week just to tank viewers in a shitty wrestling match. I told you she would be a bad signing @LifeInCattleClass. *


any capable woman is a good signing at the moment IMO


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> any capable woman is a good signing at the moment IMO


*Average isn't enough. This women's division needs someone that will take them to the next level-whether that be in the ring or on the microphone. Toni isn't capable of either.*


----------



## Not Lying

Q3 (FTR's match) an Q7 (Toni's debut) both had 2 ad breaks, not just 1, (PiP and not), so chill with "tanking" talk.

Q5 should have done better. We've already seen Bryan beat young guys before facing Page, we don't need to see him do it again randomly.

Great Q8, 3rd highest quarter. Darby > Sammy as a draw and it ain't even close. 
Last week's Jericho's tag match really tanked the ratings and was the lowest Q.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Average isn't enough. This women's division needs someone that will take them to the next level-whether that be in the ring or on the microphone. Toni isn't capable of either.*


you are describing really only 4 women

and you know which 4

and they aren’t coming

(well, maybe Sasha and Charlotte will one day)


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

LifeInCattleClass said:


> any capable woman is a good signing at the moment IMO





The Legit Lioness said:


> *Average isn't enough. This women's division needs someone that will take them to the next level-whether that be in the ring or on the microphone. Toni isn't capable of either.*




At any point in time you could say that AEW or WWE need someone who is a top flight act. There is not now nor has there ever been enough top tier acts. You always want more. Toni is a perfectly capable performer. She may not be the best but she's definitely not the worst and that makes her a good asset. AEW right now needs some women who bridge that gap between the Rosa, Jade(she has an incredible presence and is poised to be a fairly special act)and Britt level and the rest of the division. Toni will be a solid "upper middle babyface" in the division.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you are describing really only 4 women
> 
> and you know which 4
> 
> and they aren’t coming
> 
> (well, maybe Sasha and Charlotte will one day)


*As I've stated since she was fired, Athena could drastically elevate the workrate. She didn't succeed in WWE because there are plenty of excellent workers that had way more personality than her. Here in AEW, the bar is so low for women's wrestling that she would actually stand out.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *As I've stated since she was fired, Athena could drastically elevate the workrate.*


c’mon - athena is like toni level in the ring

maybe a tad better / but she sucks balls on the mic

she won‘t elevate shit


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> c’mon - athena is like toni level in the ring
> 
> maybe a tad better / but she sucks balls on the mic
> 
> she won‘t elevate shit


*That's a lie from hell. Toni is mediocre. Athena is in the Horsewomen tier. You didn't even watch WWE, so I don't know why you're making these awful false claims.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *That's a lie from hell. Toni is mediocre. Athena is in the Horsewomen tier. You didn't even watch WWE, so I don't know why you're making these awful false claims.*


i watched Ember in nxt broooo

she ok

like soho 

edit> horsewoman tier lolllllololollllll


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i watched Ember in nxt broooo
> 
> she ok
> 
> like soho
> 
> edit> horsewoman tier lolllllololollllll


*If you watched her in NXT, you would know that her second match with Asuka in Brooklyn still holds up as one of the greatest women's matches in the company 5 years later.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *If you watched her in NXT, you would know that her second match with Asuka in Brooklyn still holds up as one of the greatest women's matches in the company 5 years later.*


thanks to Asuka i’m sure

now there is a horsewoman level talent i‘d be super excited about


----------



## Irish Jet

AEW will never fulfil it's potential with Tony Khan booking the show. He needs to put his ego to the side and get a fucking professional because he's managing to botch angles which wrote themselves.

Danielson and Moxley losing viewers is a disgrace. I'm not even a Moxley fan but he's big enough that it shouldn't be happening. You take two main eventers, two of their biggest stars and put them in a seemingly directionless tag team fighting guys that absolutely no one cares about. Disgusting.

Danielson could be an undefeated heel champion tearing through the roster on a collision course with CM Punk right now. That's where we could be. Anyone can tell me that wouldn't be better than what we're getting - For Danielson, for Punk, for the title, for the company - They would be lying through their teeth. I genuinely forget there is a world champion on this show at times, probably because they have such a ridiculous format that allows you to forget about anything you aren't actively invested in.

As Cornette outlines - The Hardy's could be feuding with The Young Bucks and still yet to have their first match, slowly building it up. Instead they've already been rendered irrelevant. In three fucking weeks. A nostalgia act that would have had a limited time to have an impact anyway and you destroy it immediately. Again it's actually impressive.

Instead we get Adam Page and Adam Cole in maybe the worst world title feud I think I've ever seen. Page has never felt like a world champion at any point and somehow feels less like one with every passing week. The decision to make him your world champion with Punk and Danielson on board was insane, and anyone outside the cult could see it. Those guys sat salivating over the long term storytelling while the company shoots itself in the foot. Appeasing the trash that are going to cheer everything anyways is not the way to build a fanbase.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> thanks to Asuka i’m sure
> 
> now there is a horsewoman level talent i‘d be super excited about












@Irish Jet *You are correct. AEW puts Moxley and Bryan in heatless matches with jobbers every week, and as per usual, the jobbers are entirely too competitive and make you roll your eyes at the whole match. 

I KNOW Wheeler Yuta is losing as soon as he's announced on the card. Do you seriously think making him go 12 minutes with Daniel Bryan is inspiring me to pay $50 to watch him on the ROH PPV? Fuck no. This isn't getting ANYONE over. It devalues Bryan and Moxley, and doesn't make anyone care any more about the jobber than they did before.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> @Irish Jet *You are correct. AEW puts Moxley and Bryan in heatless matches with jobbers every week, and as per usual, the jobbers are entirely too competitive and make you roll your eyes at the whole match.
> 
> I KNOW Wheeler Yuta is losing as soon as he's announced on the card. Do you seriously think making him go 12 minutes with Daniel Bryan is inspiring me to pay $50 to watch him on the ROH PPV? Fuck no. This isn't getting ANYONE over. It devalues Bryan and Moxley, and doesn't make anyone care any more about the jobber than they did before.*


its always your children who try to hurt you the most


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> View attachment 119459


Im really interested if Punk is „accidentally“ always in the first quarter or because he has realised he has no impact and to boost his ego he needs Q1 to be on top 😂😂


----------



## DammitChrist

CM Punk having a great week here with the highest quarterly rating is always nice to see! He's like their biggest star in the company, and Punk deserves to be extremely confident about himself too 


Irish Jet said:


> AEW will never fulfil it's potential with Tony Khan booking the show. He needs to put his ego to the side and get a fucking professional because he's managing to botch angles which wrote themselves.
> 
> Danielson and Moxley losing viewers is a disgrace. I'm not even a Moxley fan but he's big enough that it shouldn't be happening. You take two main eventers, two of their biggest stars and put them in a seemingly directionless tag team fighting guys that absolutely no one cares about. Disgusting.
> 
> Danielson could be an undefeated heel champion tearing through the roster on a collision course with CM Punk right now. That's where we could be. Anyone can tell me that wouldn't be better than what we're getting - For Danielson, for Punk, for the title, for the company - They would be lying through their teeth. I genuinely forget there is a world champion on this show at times, probably because they have such a ridiculous format that allows you to forget about anything you aren't actively invested in.
> 
> As Cornette outlines - The Hardy's could be feuding with The Young Bucks and still yet to have their first match, slowly building it up. Instead they've already been rendered irrelevant. In three fucking weeks. A nostalgia act that would have had a limited time to have an impact anyway and you destroy it immediately. Again it's actually impressive.
> 
> Instead we get Adam Page and Adam Cole in maybe the worst world title feud I think I've ever seen. Page has never felt like a world champion guy at any point and somehow feels less like one with every passing week. The decision to make him your world champion with Punk and Danielson on board was insane, and anyone outside the cult could see it. Those guys sat salivating over the long term storytelling while the company shoots itself in the foot. Appeasing the trash that are going to cheer everything anyways is not the way to build a fanbase.


Nah, Adam Page is the right guy to be holding that AEW World championship. The company is fine, and they should feel free to continue their long-term storytelling anyway.

Thankfully, they're pushing Adam Cole atm, and thankfully they're catering to the hardcore audience (as any competent wrestling promotion SHOULD be doing). 

For the record, this ongoing storyline with Jon Moxley and Bryan Danielson will ultimately pay off (big time) in the future. They've already done a pretty damn good job at elevating Wheeler YUTA's stock, and getting him over with crowds with his great performances lately.


----------



## Irish Jet

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, Adam Page is the right guy to be holding that AEW World championship. The company is fine, and they should feel free to continue their long-term storytelling anyway.
> 
> Thankfully, they're pushing Adam Cole atm, and thankfully they're catering to the hardcore audience (as any competent wrestling promotion SHOULD be doing).
> 
> For the record, this ongoing storyline with Jon Moxley and Bryan Danielson will ultimately pay off (big time) in the future. They've already done a pretty damn good job at elevating Wheeler YUTA's stock, and getting him over with crowds with his great performances lately.


I really hope when we’re watching “The Brief Rise and Fall of AEW” on the Network in 5 years that this post gets cited.


----------



## Whoanma

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, Adam Page is the right guy to be holding that AEW World championship.


----------



## .christopher.

I haven't been keeping up with wrestling in general for months so catch me up.

I thought moving to tbs was going to improve ratings? Yet they're below what they were doing before even signing CM Punk and Bryan Danielson. Nevermind the 1.4 they got after Bryan debuted.

I was also told that Bryan's booking was fine, and that it was right for him to take a draw with Omega and lose to Page. Seems like that paid off.


----------



## RapShepard

At some point a roster this stacked with all that freedom, has to be tasked with performing a bit better.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, Adam Page is the right guy to be holding that AEW World championship. The company is fine, and they should feel free to continue their long-term storytelling anyway.
> 
> Thankfully, they're pushing Adam Cole atm, and thankfully they're catering to the hardcore audience (as any competent wrestling promotion SHOULD be doing).


I am not the Adam Page hater that most people are on here (I think he is a perfectly capable champion)

But, they have done him very dirty. he doesn't connect to the people at home to make them want to watch the show.

Cowboy Shit is a cool slogan, but it doesn't mean anything if you don't want to do anything with it.

This is where the disservice has been, why wasn't there something done for him outside the ring to get people to like him and make him look like the most important guy in the company.

I like Cole better than others too, but you can tell this feud is just inside ribs and them trying to make the other break on camera like a bad SNL sketch


----------



## Teemu™

There's no way @DammitChrist is a real person.


----------



## omaroo

Teemu™ said:


> There's no way @DammitChrist is a real person.


Why don't you do one troll!!


----------



## Teemu™

omaroo said:


> Why don't you do one troll!!


Do a person? Right now? Here?


----------



## omaroo

Teemu™ said:


> Do a person? Right now? Here?


Do you think your funny.

It amazes be pathetic trolls like you have such a meaningless life that all you do is waste energy behind a screen.

Really sad.


----------



## Teemu™

omaroo said:


> Do you think your funny.
> 
> It amazes be pathetic trolls like you have such a meaningless life that all you do is waste energy behind a screen.
> 
> Really sad.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## NathanMayberry

Awesome turn out at the show tonight. 

$50 million well spent tiny. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

^ Dunno about $50m (that's hearsay for now), but it's ROH's biggest crowd since MSG and one of their top 10 ever so looks like a good start for ROH 2.0. Probably 1,800 to 2,000 there which is way above what ROH has been doing for a long time now. Good show so far too!


----------



## NathanMayberry

Whatever the actual number is, he paid tens of millions for this, 


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SCJerk/comments/tu667y


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Teemu™

NathanMayberry said:


> Whatever the actual number is, he paid tens of millions for this,
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SCJerk/comments/tu667y
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


🤣


----------



## 3venflow

ROH booked Curtis Culwell Center before the AEW takeover and had sold about 600 tickets prior to Khan's announcement. They had sold 1,800 tickets as of several hours before the show without any huge stars announced from AEW besides FTR (who are currently having one of the best tag matches of the last few years with the Briscoes). However you look at it, ROH has overachieved with this crowd for this card. The show would've been better booked in a 2~3,000 seater but this was all set up before the takeover (hence ROH going against Rampage). AEW did 6,000+ there for Danielson vs. Hangman but that's the number two promotion.


----------



## The real Axel

Teemu™ said:


> There's no way @DammitChrist is a real person.


Reminds me of how I was with TNA when I was a teenager. So desperate for any product other than the evil WWE I would somehow spin everything into a positive. They'll grow out of it.


----------



## DammitChrist

The real Axel said:


> Reminds me of how I was with TNA when I was a teenager. So desperate for any product other than the evil WWE I would somehow spin everything into a positive. They'll grow out of it.


Except that I've consistently praised NXT UK and Raw on here as being (mostly) good wrestling shows to watch consistently each week. Both shows are WWE products too; so no, that's a misleading description.


----------



## La Parka

NathanMayberry said:


> Whatever the actual number is, he paid tens of millions for this,
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SCJerk/comments/tu667y
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


THATS one of ROH top ten gates?!

I never really got into roh but if that’s true, then idk why Tony bothered.


----------



## Teemu™

The revolution is now.


----------



## 3venflow

^ Ever heard of the 'hardcam'?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510106690003570688
2,000 fans for basically an upscaled AEW Dark + two bigger matches. I'd guess that makes it the 7th, 8th or 9th most attended ROH show. Top one was MSG (16,000+), then Supercard of Honor 2018 (Cody vs. Kenny, Hangman vs. Ibushi and Tanahashi/Lethal vs. Briscoes) which did 6,100, then Supercard of Honor 2017 (Hardys vs. Young Bucks) with 3,500. After that it was mainly 2,000~2,500 range crowds going back to the noughties.

It also apparently did one of or the highest PPV buyrate in ROH history.


----------



## fabi1982

Thats a strange take. I would actually think they sold these tickets so close to the show because wrestlemania people werent sure which show will also be on friday. But yeah lets think a tag team match brought the attention.


----------



## validreasoning

fabi1982 said:


> Thats a strange take. I would actually think they sold these tickets so close to the show because wrestlemania people werent sure which show will also be on friday. But yeah lets think a tag team match brought the attention.


Its not true either. Tony Khan buying ROH and some AEW fans suddenly interested in ROH was the main reason.


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> ^ Ever heard of the 'hardcam'?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510106690003570688
> 2,000 fans for basically an upscaled AEW Dark + two bigger matches. I'd guess that makes it the 7th, 8th or 9th most attended ROH show. Top one was MSG (16,000+), then Supercard of Honor 2018 (Cody vs. Kenny, Hangman vs. Ibushi and Tanahashi/Lethal vs. Briscoes) which did 6,100, then Supercard of Honor 2017 (Hardys vs. Young Bucks) with 3,500. After that it was mainly 2,000~2,500 range crowds going back to the noughties.
> 
> It also apparently did one of or the highest PPV buyrate in ROH history.


All of a sudden to the drones - ROH is some kind of super promotion that should be selling out shows with no promotion lol

When the biggest wrestling company of all time couldn't even sell out Madison Square Garden










And needed to bring back a wrestler from 20+ years ago to actually sell tickets to Wrestlemania. The most stupendous event of all time.

Isn't it weird that certain posters only actually pop up to bait a certain promotions fans?

Copium.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Erik. said:


> All of a sudden to the drones - ROH is some kind of super promotion that should be selling out shows with no promotion lol
> 
> When the biggest wrestling company of all time couldn't even sell out Madison Square Garden
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And needed to bring back a wrestler from 20+ years ago to actually sell tickets to Wrestlemania. The most stupendous event of all time.
> 
> Isn't it weird that certain posters only actually pop up to bait a certain promotions fans?
> 
> Copium.


Does bringing up wwe make you feel better about Tiny’s flop last night? This loser exudes needle dick energy..











If that was actually ROH’s top 10 gates then tiny is even a bigger idiot than I thought.. how and when exactly is he ever going to recoup this investment? 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Erik.

NathanMayberry said:


> Does bringing up wwe make you feel better about Tiny’s flop last night? This loser exudes needle dick energy..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that was actually ROH’s top 10 gates then tiny is even a bigger idiot than I thought.. how abs when exactly is he ever going to recoup this investment?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You are brilliantly amusing.

Keep it up.

You ARE a grown man, right?


----------



## VitoCorleoneX

WF slowly turning in to r/SCjerk


----------



## Teemu™

VitoCorleoneX said:


> WF slowly turning in to r/SCjerk


I just discovered that place today. Seems like a really great forum.


----------



## VitoCorleoneX

Teemu™ said:


> I just discovered that place today. Seems like a really great forum.


You can do everyone a favour and stay there.


----------



## La Parka

VitoCorleoneX said:


> You can do everyone a favour and stay there.


We’ve actually traded you there for a 5th round draft pick.

Pack ya bags, buddy!


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

As I've said ad nauseam at this point, I see zero upside to buying ROH. Especially if you've followed the promotion over the last few years. They couldn't even give tickets away. If this is the peak of interest from AEW fans...

Even IMPACT has drawn bigger houses in the last few years.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Teemu said:


> I just discovered that place today. Seems like a really great forum.


It’s literally the only good place on the internet to speak about wrestling…

Every where else is a hypocritical circle jerk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Teemu™

VitoCorleoneX said:


> You can do everyone a favour and stay there.


I don't really use Reddit, and don't have an account there. Seems like it'd be a black hole of procrastination. But definitely seems like a solid place with honest discussion and no Dub fans.


----------



## VitoCorleoneX

Teemu™ said:


> I don't really use Reddit, and don't have an account there. Seems like it'd be a black hole of procrastination. But definitely seems like a solid place with honest discussion and no Dub fans.


Perfect place for trolls as i said.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> Isn't it weird that certain posters only actually pop up to bait a certain promotions fans?


Ironic that you're upset about someone baiting fans of a product.

From today alone:



Erik. said:


> They sold out for this shit yet?
> 
> Or they going to announce The Rock will be their live via satellite to push it over?





Erik. said:


> The decline in customer revenue is staggering....





Erik. said:


> Rattles you don't it?
> 
> Bless.





Erik. said:


> To be fair, its the sad state of wrestling these days that the biggest company in the world has to bring back a stay from 20+ years ago to not only main event their show but to sell tickets.





Erik. said:


> Fans all sitting. After a match that's gone on near 30 minutes.
> 
> Ouch.





Erik. said:


> Come on fans, get on your feet. Stop sitting.
> 
> Your favourite midcarder is back!!!!





Erik. said:


> Imagine if someone told you a few months back that an AEW midcarder would go to WWE and beat their top man.
> 
> Wrestling is wild.


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Ironic that you're upset about someone baiting fans of a product.
> 
> From today alone:


Drip some more.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> Drip some more.


Drip what? What a lame insult.

Why are you being hypocritical? If you hate people "baiting" AEW fans why are you trying to bait WWE fans? Give a real answer.


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Drip what? What a lame insult.
> 
> Why are you being hypocritical? If you hate people "baiting" AEW fans why are you trying to bait WWE fans? Give a real answer.


I look forward to you keeping the same energy at the next AEW PPV, Drip.


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage finished 18th on cable with a 0.15 rating and 456,000 viewers. It was up from the last two weeks (which includes that extra late broadcast) but below the other ratings in 2022 so far. I think that's a fair rating considering what they were up against though (Supercard of Honor PPV, WWE Hall of Fame, IMPACT PPV).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Rampage finished 18th on cable with a 0.15 rating and 456,000 viewers. It was up from the last two weeks (which includes that extra late broadcast) but below the other ratings in 2022 so far. I think that's a fair rating considering what they were up against though (Supercard of Honor PPV, WWE Hall of Fame, IMPACT PPV).


that’s ok


----------



## 3venflow

Thought I'd double post it here since it's somewhat relevant to AEW business.

WON: ROH Supercard of Honor did 'over 20,000' buys on streaming and PPV. That doesn't include Honor Club. I forget the cost, but if it was $30, that'd mean $600,000 minus the split.

One of the recent ROH PPVs did 800 buys, so yeah... AEW has brought it back to life somewhat and the show didn't even have many big AEW names on it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Thought I'd double post it here since it's somewhat relevant to AEW business.
> 
> WON: ROH Supercard of Honor did 'over 20,000' buys on streaming and PPV. That doesn't include Honor Club. I forget the cost, but if it was $30, that'd mean $600,000 minus the split.
> 
> One of the recent ROH PPVs did 800 buys, so yeah... AEW has brought it back to life somewhat and the show didn't even have many big AEW names on it.


the TK touch

and people moan when he promotes - this is what promoting does


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511332389200572425


----------



## Prosper

ROHHHHH IS ALIIIVVEEEEEEE


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511525258771275779

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Some hardcam seats have been released for tonight's previously sold out show, extending capacity:

*AEW Dynamite - Rampage
Wed • Apr 06 • 7:00 PM
Agganis Arena, Boston, MA*

Available Tickets => 156
Current Setup/Capacity => 5,611
Tickets Distributed => 5,455 (97.2%)

And The Forum show keeps on selling, with capacity extended and over 13k sold now.

*AEW Presents "Dynamite"
Wed • Jun 01 • 4:00 PM
Kia Forum, Inglewood, CA*

Available Tickets => 1,074
Current Setup/Capacity => 14,079
Tickets Distributed => 13,005 (92.4%)

via WrestleTix

The excellent west coast sales hopefully make Tony more confident about spreading AEW's wings and running all over America and beyond.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Shitstorm incoming or calm waters?

i am thinking 950 - 985

having an actual title match in the main event should help / if the Hardys didn’t chase em all away


----------



## Sad Panda

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Shitstorm incoming or calm waters?
> 
> i am thinking 950 - 985


Bestintheworld#’s guy has his GIF ready, that’s all I know for sure.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 989,000
18-49 demo: 0.38

Viewership up 10k from last week, demo the same (up 4k).


----------



## Sad Panda

@LifeInCattleClass you were 4,000 off!


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Under a mil again:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512156719736143890*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Under a mil again:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512156719736143890*


but over 0!


----------



## Mr316

Terrible number. Raw did 2 million last Monday.


----------



## Sad Panda

Mr316 said:


> Terrible number. Raw did 2 million last Monday.


That number will be considerably less this Monday. Raw after mania, with Cody making his WWE tv return… even I watched for like a half hour!


----------



## Mr316

Sad Panda said:


> That number will be considerably less this Monday. Raw after mania, with Cody making his WWE tv return… even I watched for like a half hour!


AEW can’t even get 1 million after their PPVs.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> Terrible number. Raw did 2 million last Monday.


----------



## Sad Panda

Mr316 said:


> AEW can’t even get 1 million after their PPVs.


Ok? Yeah it seems they’ve plateaued with their tv rating for sure.

Other metrics they’re doing quite well in however.


----------



## .christopher.

Maybe there were a few thousand Americans who, like my good self, were thinking of tuning in but decided against watching a toddler go over Christian.


----------



## 3venflow

After two weeks at number three behind NBA, Dynamite topped one of the NBA broadcasts and finished #2 on cable this week. Tony will be happy I'm sure.


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> After two weeks at number three behind NBA, Dynamite topped one of the NBA broadcasts and finished #2 on cable this week. Tony will be happy I'm sure.
> 
> View attachment 120081


The NBA game a 10pm ET. Nothing impressive there.


----------



## Slickdude458

Not surprising when all you focus on is wrestling but no interesting angles or cliffhangers. It's a weekly TV show, save your wrestling for the PPV's.


----------



## La Parka

AEW needs to get Brandi back. She carried them for so long.


----------



## Mr316

Also they’re probably lucky to have 989k. If it wasn’t for the great lead in. They’d be in the low 900k.


----------



## Garty

Mr316 said:


> Terrible number. Raw did 2 million last Monday.


It's always like that though, especially coming off WM weekend. Austin returning probably had the casuals hoping he may be back for one more night. Raw will settle back into the 1.6 - 1.7 million in a week or two.


----------



## Mr316

Garty said:


> It's always like that though, especially coming off WM weekend. Austin returning probably had the casuals hoping he may be back for one more night. Raw will settle back into the 1.6 - 1.7 million in a week or two.


Still almost double what AEW is getting.


----------



## 3venflow

Mr316 said:


> The NBA game a 10pm ET. Nothing impressive there.


NBA at 10pm was number two on cable in the past two weeks. Beating NBA is always an achievement since it's more popular than pro wrestling. And this kind of performance is why AEW will land a much better TV rights deal next time.

AEW also beat 8 of the 14 shows on network TV yesterday.

Kardashians, Survivor, Chicago Med, Chicago Fire, Chicago PD and Masked Singer were the only shows on all of TV that beat AEW in the most important category besides NBA.

Only simple-minded people who have an imaginary success/failure benchmark of 1m linear viewers don't understand how impressive this is. It isn't WWE but AEW isn't commanding $1bn either.


----------



## La Parka

Mr316 said:


> Still almost double what AEW is getting.


And against the national championship game, which would’ve been brought up 
ad nauseam if it was on a Wednesday.


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> NBA at 10pm was number two on cable in the past two weeks. Beating NBA is always an achievement since it's more popular than pro wrestling. And this kind of performance is why AEW will land a much better TV rights deal next time.
> 
> AEW also beat 8 of the 14 shows on network TV yesterday.


Not too sure about that. It’s all about advertising and no one wants to advertise during AEW.


----------



## CovidFan

Slickdude458 said:


> Not surprising when all you focus on is wrestling no interesting angles or cliffhangers it's a weekly TV show save your wrestling for the ppv's.


Should they also go to 12 ppvs /year?

Mr316, I like how your character's constantly evolving 💘


----------



## Garty

Mr316 said:


> Still almost double what AEW is getting.


Averaging 900,000 - 1.1 million for AEW and averaging 1.6 - 1.7 million for Raw is not half.


----------



## Mr316

Garty said:


> Averaging 900,000 - 1.1 million for AEW and averaging 1.6 - 1.7 million for Raw is not half.


900k vs 1.7 million is almost double.


----------



## 3venflow

Mr316 said:


> Not too sure about that. It’s all about advertising and no one wants to advertise during AEW.


I've posted source after source showing how 18-49 is more important in general and also for AEW. Just because they can't command A grade advertisers like the live sports, doesn't make them valueless.

Tony Khan himself has said Turner give zero fucks about P2+ viewership as long as it's high enough to give them a competitive demo.

From his latest interview about AEW vs. NXT:

_“We only lost the demo once,” Khan said.” I think we were head-to-head with NXT for like 76 weeks, and we went 75-1 in the demo. And the 1 was the one that reset me. We had been losing the overall number, which was not the network cared as much, you know, the lead number that was on the report they’d talk to us about, like the actual scoreline.

“Our number was 18-49 that they focused on. But also, you know, looking at the total viewers. In December 2019, we were losing the total viewers but we were still holding onto the demo. And I quit being in denial when we dropped the demo.”_

But people will continue to ignore this as long as it suits their weird ass agendas. The whole debate will be settled come TV rights renewal time. This whole imaginary 1m benchmark is a creation of online tribalists who have no idea how the TV industry has changed (how many people have cut the cord since Dynamite debuted, do you think?) and works nowadays.


----------



## Sad Panda

Mr316 said:


> Not too sure about that. It’s all about advertising and no one wants to advertise during AEW.


Are you sure about that? I think you’re just talking emotionally right now.


----------



## Garty

Mr316 said:


> 900k vs 1.7 million is almost double.


Okay then, please go back to watching WWE, or just stop watching AEW then. You almost had me fooled with your new attitude a while back, but now...


----------



## Sad Panda

@3venflow do you know when AEWs contract is up and ready for renewal? 

I’m gonna have that date circled on the calendar. We’re gonna have a good old fashioned civil war in this place.


----------



## The Boy Wonder




----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Sad Panda said:


> Bestintheworld#’s guy has his GIF ready, that’s all I know for sure.


----------



## 3venflow

Sanda Panda said:


> @3venflow do you know when AEWs contract is up and ready for renewal?
> 
> I’m gonna have that date circled on the calendar. We’re gonna have a good old fashioned civil war in this place.


End of 2023 according to this. Warner have the option to renew at an increased price.









WarnerMedia, AEW extend TV deal through 2023, agree to launch second weekly show


AEW "Dynamite" will air on TNT for the next four years with another weekly show to come.




www.sportingnews.com





The current deal is worth $175m/just under $45 p/y over four years and $10m was added to that as part of the arrangements with the move to TBS and Rampage.

My recent prediction is that they should at least get $100m p/y next time, but it could be more or less. As long as they retain their high cable rankings it's going to be a big increase. There's also the HBO Max question...

There's also a Darby Allin reality show in production and some other projects apparently.


----------



## Prized Fighter

3venflow said:


> I've posted source after source showing how 18-49 is more important in general and also for AEW. Just because they can't command A grade advertisers like the live sports, doesn't make them valueless.
> 
> Tony Khan himself has said Turner give zero fucks about P2+ viewership as long as it's high enough to give them a competitive demo.
> 
> From his latest interview about AEW vs. NXT:
> 
> _“We only lost the demo once,” Khan said.” I think we were head-to-head with NXT for like 76 weeks, and we went 75-1 in the demo. And the 1 was the one that reset me. We had been losing the overall number, which was not the network cared as much, you know, the lead number that was on the report they’d talk to us about, like the actual scoreline.
> 
> “Our number was 18-49 that they focused on. But also, you know, looking at the total viewers. In December 2019, we were losing the total viewers but we were still holding onto the demo. And I quit being in denial when we dropped the demo.”_
> 
> But people will continue to ignore this as long as it suits their weird ass agendas. The whole debate will be settled come TV rights renewal time. This whole imaginary 1m benchmark is a creation of online tribalists who have no idea how the TV industry has changed (how many people have cut the cord since Dynamite debuted, do you think?) and works nowadays.


I really can't wait until the new deal is signed and we can end this dumbass debate. If Warner increases their yearly to $100 million, adds ROH to HBO Max (or another Turner channel) and renews Rampage, will people finally stop this ratings debate?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> End of 2023 according to this. Warner have the option to renew at an increased price.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WarnerMedia, AEW extend TV deal through 2023, agree to launch second weekly show
> 
> 
> AEW "Dynamite" will air on TNT for the next four years with another weekly show to come.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sportingnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The current deal is worth $175m/just under $45 p/y over four years and $10m was added to that as part of the arrangements with the move to TBS and Rampage.
> 
> My recent prediction is that they should at least get $100m p/y next time, but it could be more or less. As long as they retain their high cable rankings it's going to be a big increase. There's also the HBO Max question...
> 
> There's also a Darby Allin reality show in production and some other projects apparently.


you think 100?

i was thinking 80 TBH

less than double but more than respectable


----------



## Prized Fighter

The Boy Wonder said:


>


So the lead in didn't help them this week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Boy Wonder said:


>


first time in a while they bettered on Q1 - no big lead-in?


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you think 100?
> 
> i was thinking 80 TBH
> 
> less than double but more than respectable


To be honest, I think if they went to the negotiating table now they could get even more.

Who knows how the TV landscape will change come January 2024. The only real guarantee is they'll get more money since that's in the contract if Warner keep them (which they will I think, despite the Warner/Discovery merger - and if not, someone else would want one of the most popular originals on cable). My thinking is cable will continue to lose viewers making the networks even more desperate to hold on to anything popular with the key demo... so that could benefit AEW.

There's also a few ? that could come into play: can they get Rampage a better slot and 2 hours, can they get ROH on a Warner network, can they negotiate some kind of HBO Max deal?

Brandon Thurston on one of his streams a month or two back suggested that he thinks AEW could get a really big deal. He said it'll only be a fraction of what WWE command, but that it could be very lucrative.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> To be honest, I think if they went to the negotiating table now they could get even more.
> 
> Who knows how the TV landscape will change come January 2024. The only real guarantee is they'll get more money since that's in the contract if Warner keep them (which they will I think, despite the Warner/Discovery merger - and if not, someone else would want one of the most popular originals on cable). My thinking is cable will continue to lose viewers making the networks even more desperate to hold on to anything popular with the key demo... so that could benefit AEW.
> 
> There's also a few ? that could come into play: can they get Rampage a better slot and 2 hours, can they get ROH on a Warner network, can they negotiate some kind of HBO Max deal?
> 
> Brandon Thurston on one of his streams a month or two back suggested that he thinks AEW could get a really big deal. He said it'll only be a fraction of what WWE command, but that it could be very lucrative.


i mean - who is going to complain about a 4 year, 400m deal - even if its a fraction of that the Fed earns

thats spicy moolah


----------



## Prized Fighter

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511907373203570691
What the future of live TV will look like.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Number is alright, I'm happy they didn't see to drop off all that much. 



Prized Fighter said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511907373203570691
> What the future of live TV will look like.


When streaming first became a thing and we got multiple services all with different things, I predicted that we'd circle back and end up with basically online cable, which bundles all of these together. 

We're getting closer and closer to that becoming reality.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Dr. Middy said:


> Number is alright, I'm happy they didn't see to drop off all that much.
> 
> 
> 
> When streaming first became a thing and we got multiple services all with different things, I predicted that we'd circle back and end up with basically online cable, which bundles all of these together.
> 
> We're getting closer and closer to that becoming reality.


And that list doesn't even include Peacock which will also have 18 Sunday morning MLB games.


----------



## fabi1982

I remember all the talks with the move to TBS and the not live anymore westcoast viewers. This was a time AEW did 1.1m on avg iirc. Now we are happy with below 1m? Announcement after announcement, new guy after new guy, dream match after dream match, title match after title match? 

I know most of the AEW fans dont care and will parade 20k ppv buys for ROH on their shoulders. But what does Turner and TBS think?

You basically have a roster able to compete with WWE and this is what you do?


----------



## ClintDagger

Sad to see them outside of the top 10 in prime time. I’m not sure what the spark is that they need, but the show seems very flat right now with Page & Cole as the main event.

As far as rights fees, they should be hoping for 50% to 60% of what WWE gets. It sounds like right now they are getting roughly 10%; which, when you are pulling in 60% of the audience of your competitor and have shown you can do so consistently, taking $0.10 on the dollar is a huge indictment of the desirability of your product. Hopefully they can get an annual deal somewhere in the $125-$140 million range with the bottom end being $100 million. Otherwise these huge talent investments have to be considered a major disappointment.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> I remember all the talks with the move to TBS and the not live anymore westcoast viewers. This was a time AEW did 1.1m on avg iirc. Now we are happy with below 1m? Announcement after announcement, new guy after new guy, dream match after dream match, title match after title match?
> 
> I know most of the AEW fans dont care and will parade 20k ppv buys for ROH on their shoulders. But what does Turner and TBS think?
> 
> You basically have a roster able to compete with WWE and this is what you do?


please don;t remind us of the non-existent west coast bump

that still hurts and i’m not ready for this level of betrayal today


----------



## qntntgood

fabi1982 said:


> I remember all the talks with the move to TBS and the not live anymore westcoast viewers. This was a time AEW did 1.1m on avg iirc. Now we are happy with below 1m? Announcement after announcement, new guy after new guy, dream match after dream match, title match after title match?
> 
> I know most of the AEW fans dont care and will parade 20k ppv buys for ROH on their shoulders. But what does Turner and TBS think?
> 
> You basically have a roster able to compete with WWE and this is what you do?


Aew should be embarrassed,by this number because they have not grown in almost 3 years.and here are the aew apologiest still denfeneding this company,and meanwhile wwe has the momentum coming off of wrestlmaina .


----------



## Fearless Viper

Although they should have their numbers up with the talent they have still their placement on the chart is great.


----------



## Geeee

LifeInCattleClass said:


> please don;t remind us of the non-existent west coast bump
> 
> that still hurts and i’m not ready for this level of betrayal today


I'm sorry. I live in Canada, in the central timezone and I watch this shit on TSN's website. I'm letting the brand down by not contributing to the west coast bump.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512198811284045824


----------



## Geeee

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512198811284045824


I like how Tony's quick to point out how much the NBA coverage cost LOL. Not so subtle.


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> Maybe there were a few thousand Americans who, like my good self, were thinking of tuning in but decided against watching a toddler go over Christian.


Christian Cage and Adam Cole (the devil on here) ended up having one of the highest rated quarters of the night throughout their whole match/segment.


----------



## RapShepard

Tony is the best since Heyman in convincing his core fans of wins that don't exist lol. Man has A1 spin game.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Boy Wonder said:


>


*Nyla and Toni are channel changers. That's twice that they've had the worst rated segment in back to back weeks. Britt can't come back soon enough.*


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Nyla and Toni are channel changers. That's twice that they've had the worst rated segment in back to back weeks. Britt can't come back soon enough.*


The only high Toni will ever reach is after she finishes smoking up. Maybe she can give an interview where she's "tired" again.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Samoa Joe did a great number, as expected. Womens match lost viewers, as expected.

Still overall good number and a great show


----------



## Sad Panda

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> The only high Toni will ever reach is after she finishes smoking up. Maybe she can give an interview where she's "tired" again.


Man you’re really offended by the possibility that Toni Storm smoked a J huh? We don’t even know what was up with her, but I’ve noticed you bring it up several times now. What’s the deal?


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Sad Panda said:


> Man you’re really offended by the possibility that Toni Storm smoked a J huh? We don’t even know what was up with her, but I’ve noticed you bring it up several times now. What’s the deal?


I'm not even offended, I smoke too, plus I'm a Toni Storm fan, I'm just messing around my guy.

Plus I've brought it up maybe twice, don't think that's several times my friend.


----------



## Sad Panda

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I'm not even offended, I smoke too, plus I'm a Toni Storm fan, I'm just messing around my guy.


Oh alright. Just curious.


----------



## DammitChrist

Wait, Toni Storm was only on TV for 20 seconds last night.

How is she responsible for that whole drop?


----------



## reamstyles

Geeee said:


> I like how Tony's quick to point out how much the NBA coverage cost LOL. Not so subtle.


I follow nba but the double headers contains non beraing games heading to the playoffs and as if this teams are fighting for a play in spot like lakers (whose out of contention already)


----------



## The real Axel

Tiny Cole and the geeky cowboy is your main event program 

The clown show gets a bad rating. News at 11.


----------



## DammitChrist

The real Axel said:


> Tiny Cole and the geeky cowboy is your main event program
> 
> The clown show gets a bad rating. News at 11.


That’s weird because Adam Page and Adam Cole ended up receiving the best quarterly segments within the 1st 20 minutes of the show 

It’s not surprising that those 2 men are prominent highlights on a good show


----------



## Brodus Clay

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Nyla and Toni are channel changers. That's twice that they've had the worst rated segment in back to back weeks. Britt can't come back soon enough.*


Yes Toni Storm was an awful sign nobody wanted that.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The real Axel said:


> Tiny Cole and the geeky cowboy is your main event program
> 
> The clown show gets a bad rating. News at 11.


*They even got put in the Big Bang Theory stimulus slot instead of their usual later slot to reflect artificial interest 🤣*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *They even got put in the Big Bang Theory stimulus slot instead of their usual later slot to reflect artificial interest 🤣*


there obvs wasn‘t a big lead-in

proven by the growth in q2 - when Hangman showed up


----------



## Sad Panda

I also don’t think it’s a “bad” rating. AEW is pretty darn consistent. Something to be said for that I feel.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> there obvs wasn‘t a big lead-in
> 
> proven by the growth in q2 - when Hangman showed up


*Wrong, Samoa Joe.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Wrong, Samoa Joe.*


prove that shit

Hangman forevah!


----------



## Not Lying

Is this the first time since moving TBS Q2 was ahead of Q1? Was TBBT on before?
That's thanks to ending of Cole/Cage AND Joe's debut.


----------



## Scuba Steve

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Nyla and Toni are channel changers. That's twice that they've had the worst rated segment in back to back weeks. Britt can't come back soon enough.*


FWIW, according to TK and the minute by minute data he her gets, Toni and Bunny did over a million views. Made the claim on Brandon Walkers podcast. 






Starts around or just after the 48 minute mark


----------



## Mister Sinister

Still struggling to keep a million viewers. I guess that whole strategy of telling people that said "they need a writer" to just not watch didn't turn out so hot.


----------



## Aedubya

Brilliant rating for a brilliant show

Trend broken


----------



## Ultimo Duggan

Sad Panda said:


> @3venflow do you know when AEWs contract is up and ready for renewal?
> 
> I’m gonna have that date circled on the calendar. We’re gonna have a good old fashioned civil war in this place.


American Civil War or Rwanda Civil War?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

i've been thinking about something - the whole 'tv deal' thing - and just doing a few calculations

we all agree in the US at least, there seems to be 750,000 diehards according to the ratings, right? We've heard it many times before

And IMO a diehard is somebody who would not mind shelling out 4,99 for an AEW network with Live Dynamite, Rampage and accessing older content - maybe even 9.99 if you include all the ROH?

anyway - sticking to 4.99

if 750,000 people on average subscribe to AEW steaming service if AEDUB ever loses a tv deal - then that would be 3,742,500 per month

which is... you guessed it 45m per year - the value of their TV deal.

If AEW can survive right now with the 45m and by reports it shows they make double that when ticket sales, merch, international tv deals and PPVs are added

then you'd have to say... I think AEW will be around and viable as long as Tony wants it to be


----------



## Mr316

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i've been thinking about something - the whole 'tv deal' thing - and just doing a few calculations
> 
> we all agree in the US at least, there seems to be 750,000 diehards according to the ratings, right? We've heard it many times before
> 
> And IMO a diehard is somebody who would not mind shelling out 4,99 for an AEW network with Live Dynamite, Rampage and accessing older content - maybe even 9.99 if you include all the ROH?
> 
> anyway - sticking to 4.99
> 
> if 750,000 people on average subscribe to AEW steaming service if AEDUB ever loses a tv deal - then that would be 3,742,500 per month
> 
> which is... you guessed it 45m per year - the value of their TV deal.
> 
> If AEW can survive right now with the 45m and by reports it shows they make double that when ticket sales, merch, international tv deals and PPVs are added
> 
> then you'd have to say... I think AEW will be around and viable as long as Tony wants it to be


Do you really believe 750k would subscribe to a AEW streaming service? Are you also the one who thought Ricky Starks was the next Rock? 😂


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> Do you really believe 750k would subscribe to a AEW streaming service? Are you also the one who thought Ricky Starks was the next Rock? 😂


i did not think Starks was the next Rock. I do think we all think he has similar tendencies - but no, he won't be as big

on to the post - you and many others have plenty times called this 750k the 'hardcore' audience who will 'pop' for anything

so, can you tell me why these hardcore people WON'T spend 4.99 a month as in my example?


----------



## Mr316

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i did not think Starks was the next Rock. I do think we all think he has similar tendencies - but no, he won't be as big
> 
> on to the post - you and many others have plenty times called this 750k the 'hardcore' audience who will 'pop' for anything
> 
> so, can you tell me why these hardcore people WON'T spend 4.99 a month as in my example?


Because they can’t even spend 50$ on AEW’s top 4 events of the year.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> Because they can’t even spend 50$ on AEW’s top 4 events of the year.


and 50 is 4.99 how?

we at the very least know they can afford cable


----------



## Mr316

LifeInCattleClass said:


> and 50 is 4.99 how?
> 
> we at the very least know they can afford cable


Let’s put it simply like this. AEW on it’s own streaming platform at 4.99$ per month would be the absolute death of the brand.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> Let’s put it simply like this. AEW on it’s own streaming platform at 4.99$ per month would be the the absolute death of the brand.


care to explain? I’ve just given a scenario where if they lose their tv deal that they can still be very viable

i’ve given it with math and logic

what logic exactly are you using for your statement?


----------



## Mr316

LifeInCattleClass said:


> care to explain? I’ve just given a scenario where if they lose their tv deal that they can still be very viable
> 
> i’ve given it with math and logic
> 
> what logic exactly are you using for your statement?


There’s zero logic to what you said. It’s way way more complicated then your little scenario you mentioned. If you launch a streaming platform, you need a team to manage that platform ($$$) daily. You also need a huge marketing team ($$$) in order to get people to subscribe to the platform. Then you have to create fresh content ($$$) in order to find ways to attract new subscribers (which by the way is gonna be extremely hard since you’re gonna be nowhere except on social media and unless you’re a die hard, most people are just gonna find the shows for free or watch what they want on Youtube).

So like I said, goodluck with that 4.99$ per month. It won’t get AEW very far.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> There’s zero logic to what you said. It’s way way more complicated then your little scenario you mentioned. If you launch a streaming platform, you need a team to manage that platform ($$$) daily. You also need a huge marketing team ($$$) in order to get people to subscribe to the platform. Then you have to create fresh content ($$$) in order to find ways to attract new subscribers (which by the way is gonna be extremely hard since you’re gonna be nowhere except on social media and unless you’re a die hard, most people are just gonna find the shows for free or watch what they want on Youtube).
> 
> So like I said, goodluck with that 4.99$ per month. It won’t get AEW very far.


please, streaming platforms technology is so accessible at the moment it might max them out at a cost of 32k per month for servers etc, and another 12k for curating staff - or they’ll just give it to FITE to do it for them for the olde 15% cut

they have fresh content every week to the tune of 5 hrs a week as well as tons of extra content and a whole ROH library

then you don‘t need to market much - as i said, you have your hardcores who will ‘buy anything’ - as you so eloquently put it many times - they’ll climb on board quick quick

The people who pirate are already pirating, should not make a dent in the 750k - but even if you drop it to 500k, its still a strong offering and viable


----------



## Mr316

LifeInCattleClass said:


> please, streaming platforms technology is so accessible at the moment it might max them out at a cost of 32k per month for servers etc, and another 12k for curating staff - or they’ll just give it to FITE to do it for them for the olde 15% cut
> 
> they have fresh content every week to the tune of 5 hrs a week as well as tons of extra content and a whole ROH library
> 
> then you don‘t need to market much - as i said, you have your hardcores who will ‘buy anything’ - as you so eloquently put it many times - they’ll climb on board quick quick
> 
> The people who pirate are already pirating, should not make a dent in the 750k - but even if you drop it to 500k, its still a strong offering and viable


I see that you’re absolutely delusional but it’s okay. And yes, you’re delusional to think that 75% of AEW’s current audience would subscribre to the platform. You’re also delusional to think that 500k at 4.99$ would allow Tony Khan to run AEW the way he’s running it right now.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> I see that you’re absolutely delusional but it’s okay. And yes, you’re delusional to think that 75% of AEW’s current audience would subscribre to the platform. You’re also delusional to think that 500k at 4.99$ would allow Tony Khan to run AEW the way he’s running it right now.


hey, you‘re the one saying there is a hardcore base that will pop for anything or buy anything - have you or have you not, like plenty times?

i’m just building on that idea


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Buuut, lets say we limit it to the ppv audience - and you add the ROH library for 9.99

that’s 200,000 at 9.99 = 2m a month, which = 24m a year

still viable, yay!

you just let Jericho go and you‘re halfway there


----------



## Mr316

LifeInCattleClass said:


> hey, you‘re the one saying there is a hardcore base that will pop for anything or buy anything - have you or have you not, like plenty times?
> 
> i’m just building on that idea


Yes. There is a hardcore base. You have that base of 750k that will watch weekly no matter what. Doesn’t mean 750k are willing to pay monthly to watch Dynamite.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> Yes. There is a hardcore base. You have that base of 750k that will watch weekly no matter what. Doesn’t mean 750k are willing to pay monthly to watch Dynamite.


why not? That is the whole point of ‘hardcore’ no? They buy everything you sell

unless its now suddenly a ‘casual’ hardcore?


----------



## RoganJosh

@Mr316 and @LifeInCattleClass with the reshuffle within Warnermedia Discovery I don't see them renewing AEW programming. Without the TV revenue they will call it a day, therefore you two are arguing over load of bollocks. Kiss and make up now.


----------



## Mr316

LifeInCattleClass said:


> why not? That is the whole point of ‘hardcore’ no? They buy everything you sell
> 
> unless its now suddenly a ‘casual’ hardcore?


Keep dreaming brother. AEW would never get 750k subscribers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> Keep dreaming brother. AEW would never get 750k subscribers.


keep dreaming brother, they will get 750k subs minimum


----------



## La Parka

There’s no way an AEW network for 4.55 dosent sell to at least 500k, imo.

AEW does very well converting cable viewers into PPV viewers so I can’t imagine the hardcores wouldn’t buy the network.


----------



## omaroo

AEW gona die this nonsense again!!

IF Warner media don't renew AEW then I have no doubt there would be other networks wanting AEW content on their network.


----------



## Mr316

omaroo said:


> AEW gona die this nonsense again!!
> 
> IF Warner media don't renew AEW then I have no doubt there would be other networks wanting AEW content on their network.


Which one?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> Which one?


close your eyes and pick one



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_pay_television_channels


----------



## Mr316

LifeInCattleClass said:


> close your eyes and pick one
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_pay_television_channels


No go ahead. Find me a channel that has the reach of TBS/TNT, not already affiliated to WWE and has 50 millions for AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> No go ahead. Find me a channel that has the reach of TBS/TNT, not already affiliated to WWE and has 50 millions for AEW.


Hallmark?


----------



## 3venflow

If an AEW streaming service was to happen, I'd be mopping up available libraries if I was Tony. Content is king.

They already have ROH, but should get access to the PWG library as a lot of future stars also went through there including Danielson, Omega, Bucks, McIntyre, Ospreay, Owens and Zayn. The TNA/IMPACT library is probably the biggest that may be available, but it'd probably take a huge offer since IMPACT is still in business.

There's a lot of Japanese libraries that would probably come fairly low cost (by TK's standards) and add thousands of matches to the platform. NJPW World probably means they won't be able to get the big one (unless they can broker some kind of deal), but I feel like the FMW library would be pretty big. FMW was a pioneering promotion in the 90s and Japan's biggest 'alternative' to NJPW and AJPW.

Then there are other defunct promotions like the shoot-style groups (UWF-I, UWF, BattlARTS, RINGS, Futen and IGF which Lesnar and Lashley worked), promotions which had some notoriety but are long gone like WAR and SWS (this would be funny as these promotions worked with WWF so they could get matches from Japan with Hogan, Undertaker, Flair, Savage, etc.)., and some famous women's wrestlings (Zenjo which independentwrestling.tv currently has access to, GAEA, Arison, etc.).

I wonder what the availability of CMLL and AAA's library are as those would be a treasure and I don't believe they are available outside of Mexico.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 600,000
18-49: 0.25

Number four on cable and its best performance since January 28th.


----------



## ProjectGargano

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewers: 600,000
> 18-49: 0.25
> 
> Number four on cable and its best performance since January 28th.
> 
> View attachment 120390


Another win for the good guys.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513612139264626694

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513615624546705412
*The bot propaganda succeeded 🤦🏽.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513612139264626694
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513615624546705412
> *The bot propaganda succeeded 🤦🏽.*


lollll, i TOLD you guys!

also - all the BS about blood being too much and all that - out the window

everybody was speaking about YUTA match, and they definitely didn’t tune out it seems


----------



## DammitChrist

Jon Moxley, Bryan Danielson, and BLOOD bringing more interest to the show confirmed.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lollll, i TOLD you guys!
> 
> also - all the BS about blood being too much and all that - out the window
> 
> everybody was speaking about YUTA match, and they definitely didn’t tune out it seems


*Bullshit. More people tuned in because Tony Khan decided to make an idiot of himself on Twitter. The Trump formula is still effective. When Hangman and Adam Cole flop this week, what will you say?*


----------



## DammitChrist

I’m not really surprised by this:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513617189525356545


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Bullshit. More people tuned in because Tony Khan decided to make an idiot of himself on Twitter. The Trump formula is still effective. *


you think people tuned it to watch wrestling for 1 hour cause TK tweeted about bots

you have to then admit to 1 of 2 things

1.TK is brilliant at promoting. His bot promotion brought almost 200k viewers in

or

2. Yuta + Blood = draw

i’ll listen for your answer on the radio

Ruthless TK wins with Rampage AGAIN


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you think people tuned it to watch wrestling for 1 hour cause TK tweeted about bots
> 
> you have to then admit to 1 of 2 things
> 
> 1.TK is brilliant at promoting. His bot promotion brought almost 200k viewers in
> 
> or
> 
> 2. Yuta + Blood = draw
> 
> i’ll listen for your answer on the radio
> 
> Ruthless TK wins with Rampage AGAIN


*Are you going to go into hiding when Cole and Hangman flop this Friday?*


----------



## ProjectGargano

DammitChrist said:


> I’m not really surprised by this:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513617189525356545


Yes, Konuwa is a racist idiot that hates AEW, everyone knows that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Are you going to go into hiding when Cole and Hangman flop this Friday?*


of course - i admit my bias


----------



## DammitChrist

Adam Page and Adam Cole were both part of the highest rated quarterly segments on Dynamite this past Wednesday btw.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Ruthless Tony draws!


----------



## Fearless Viper

Ruthless Tony draws!


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewers: 600,000
> 18-49: 0.25
> 
> Number four on cable and its best performance since January 28th.
> 
> View attachment 120390


That’s a great demo for the time slot. Especially for a taped show.

Congrats to Yuta!


----------



## Gn1212

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Are you going to go into hiding when Cole and Hangman flop this Friday?*


Think they have to tease some sort of Punk involvement. Page and Cole alone won't do it.

In fact, how about Punk on commentary? Then after the match Punk gets in the ring face to face with Hangman as they go off the air.


----------



## DaSlacker

LifeInCattleClass said:


> close your eyes and pick one
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_pay_television_channels


Realistically there's only:

Warner Discovery (TBS, TNT, HBO etc) 

or 

Disney (ESPN, ABC, FX, Hulu) 
Paramount Global (CBS, MTV etc) 
AMC Networks (AMC) 
Lionsgate (Starz) 

Or

Amazon (Prime) 
Netflix
Apple (Apple TV) 
Google (YouTube) 

The problem with a lot of platforms is reach or the unknown of going on a paywall. If they had the social media traction of WWE it would help mask over the issues. But it's :

YouTube 3.1 mil followers vs 87 million 
Facebook 1.2 mil followers vs 67 million
Instagram 1.7 mil followers vs 26 million


----------



## Prized Fighter

Gn1212 said:


> Think they have to tease some sort of Punk involvement. Page and Cole alone won't do it.
> 
> In fact, how about Punk on commentary? Then after the match Punk gets in the ring face to face with Hangman as they go off the air.


Rampage is live this week and those shows tend to do better numbers. So, adding Punk to it does make sense.


----------



## ProjectGargano

DaSlacker said:


> Realistically there's only:
> 
> Warner Discovery (TBS, TNT, HBO etc)
> 
> or
> 
> Disney (ESPN, ABC, FX, Hulu)
> Paramount Global (CBS, MTV etc)
> AMC Networks (AMC)
> Lionsgate (Starz)
> 
> Or
> 
> Amazon (Prime)
> Netflix
> Apple (Apple TV)
> Google (YouTube)
> 
> The problem with a lot of platforms is reach or the unknown of going on a paywall. If they had the social media traction of WWE it would help mask over the issues. But it's :
> 
> YouTube 3.1 mil followers vs 87 million
> Facebook 1.2 mil followers vs 67 million
> Instagram 1.7 mil followers vs 26 million


If, hypothetically, they were dumped. AMC and MTV would be logical choices, no? How would a weekly wrestling live show work in a streaming service?


----------



## DaSlacker

ProjectGargano said:


> If, hypothetically, they were dumped. AMC and MTV would be logical choices, no? How would a weekly wrestling live show work in a streaming service?


Possibly but if they're dumped then theoretically their leverage drops with it. 

Problem with MTV is that its owner was the company that dropped Impact Wrestling and lowballed it for years. They had wrestling on air from 1999 all the way to 2014. They haven't shown any interest in wrestling since then. Not sure how much money AMC has. 

I know Amazon Prime shows live sport. Not sure if Netflix or the others are there yet. 

I don't see them getting dropped anyway. If the new head of Warner Discovery is a cost cutting miser then I wouldn't be surprised if AEW does ok out of it tbf. Wrasslin has always be good value for money and popular with those who wanted relatively cheap yet dependable original content. Tony Khan has built a nice little franchise with the ability to produce 6 hours of content each week. 

David Zaslav, new head of Warner Discovery, was an NBC from 1989 until 2006. He will be no stranger to how lucrative wrestling can be - he was there when Saturday Night's Main Event was around and still there when NBC owned USA Network brought back WWE in 2005. As soon as he joined Discovery he had the company doing a joint deal with Hasbro. His reasoning was due to the revenue stream from merchandise. Something like AEW is a good tie-in partner. Even moreso if they go PG.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Im betting AEW is dead within a year. Discovery is not going to keep it if they do they will lowball the offer and demand AEW go pg in return. The audience will slowly lose interest, ratings will drop even more and the company will be dead.


----------



## ProjectGargano

CenaBoy4Life said:


> Im betting AEW is dead within a year. Discovery is not going to keep it if they do they will lowball the offer and demand AEW go pg in return. The audience will slowly lose interest, ratings will drop even more and the company will be dead.


Yes, you bots are saying that since AEW's begining.


----------



## CovidFan

CenaBoy4Life said:


> Im betting AEW is dead within a year. Discovery is not going to keep it if they do they will lowball the offer and demand AEW go pg in return. The audience will slowly lose interest, ratings will drop even more and the company will be dead.


I'm not opposed to free money so if you'd really like to "bet", we can.


----------



## Prosper

Good to see Rampage drawing a much higher rating last week, that show definitely deserved it.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514248037744484355

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RapShepard

I'm predicting they do a milly this week


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 977,000
18-49: 0.37

This is down year-on-year. Last year was their first unopposed by NXT and there was a spike in numbers for that show. (Correction: wasn't the Bloods & Guts show, my fault for taking the info from Raj Giri).


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 977,000
> 18-49: 0.37
> 
> This is down year-on-year. Last year was their first unopposed by NXT and there was a spike in numbers for that show which had the first Blood & Guts (3rd highest viewership of 2021).


Them beating NXT of Wednesdays feels so long ago lol


----------



## .christopher.

No competition, moving to TBS, signed Bryan and Punk, and they can't get above a million. Blimey.


----------



## fabi1982

At least Punk can say he hit the million in Q1.


----------



## Mister Sinister

This is an easy fix. There has to be a real creative change. That's all it comes down to. They need someone who has a different vision of who should be champion, how the show should be blocked, how it starts, how it ends, who needs to be cut, etc.
You don't write a change. You don't fake it. It has to be a real change.


----------



## Gn1212

Very interesting. I think there is value in their consistent viewership recently. Especially for Tony who has the underlying numbers. He should be able to see now what draws and what doesn't. I have a few people in mind that don't.


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite finished #3 on cable behind only the NBA Play-Ins, which did monster numbers in the male demos.

Last three of four weeks, they have been in the top three.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514709884666847233

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514709884666847233
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk











AEW Dynamite Draws Lowest Viewership And Key Demo Rating Since Early March - Wrestling Inc.


Wednesday's live edition of AEW Dynamite drew 977,000 viewers on TBS, according to Nielsen via Showbuzz Daily.




www.wrestlinginc.com





*ANNOUNCEMENTS, DEBUTS, SURPRISES, OVERRUN, TITLE CHANGE...just to still be under 1 million* 🤣


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Oh boy, discourse time.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Imagine Punk in the main event with a real storyline or title. hmm maybe they would draw something.

Suzuki is a old jobber nobody knows or cares about. His matches all suck with his shit slaps and headbutts. Enough already.

If people cared about ROH they wouldve watched and supported them. Keep their crap titles off TV and take your own damn title off no charisma hack Adam Page. Give that title to Joe, Bryan or Punk.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Record lows everytime Eddie Kingston's on, record highs everytime he fks off.

If only AEW could connect the dots..


----------



## DaSlacker

Tony should just say fuck it. Stand back and give Cornette the book for Dynamite and Russo the book for Rampage.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*GROWTH!!!!

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514694991867691008*


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

The Legit Lioness said:


> *GROWTH!!!!
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514694991867691008*


Damn I was hoping Erik would of updated these numbers from last year and now LMAO


----------



## InexorableJourney

The Legit Lioness said:


> *GROWTH!!!!
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514694991867691008*


Do you know who _wasn't _on the record show one year ago..Eddie Kingston


----------



## Cube2

DaSlacker said:


> Tony should just say fuck it. Stand back and give Cornette the book for Dynamite and Russo the book for Rampage.


Russo & Cornette wrote some great tv in 97 for the brief time they worked together. Sucks Cornette wont squash their beef. Aew would drastically be better with either of those guys taking over from TK.


----------



## Joe Gill

TK is so clueless.. he actually thinks most wrestling fans care about japanese geezers, ROH tv titles and pushing this Yuta guy who has a ceiling of a mid carder. Even with all the money TK has thrown towards wrestling and an unwatchable WWE product he still cant get a million people to tune in regularily. He needs to stop listening to the incels in the audience who are a vocal minority that cheer for everything and start producing compelling episodic tv with must see storylines and larger than life personalities...if he can combine that with good in ring product AEW would be closing in on WWe in the ratings by now. Its too bad he is the biggest wrestling nerd on the planet with ADD and cant take criticism..


----------



## DammitChrist

I find it incredibly odd how some individuals seem to be applauding/cheering for this company to fail on a weekly basis in spite of their ongoing success.



CenaBoy4Life said:


> Imagine Punk in the main event with a real storyline or title. hmm maybe they would draw something.
> 
> Suzuki is a old jobber nobody knows or cares about. His matches all suck with his shit slaps and headbutts. Enough already.
> 
> If people cared about ROH they wouldve watched and supported them. Keep their crap titles off TV and take your own damn title off no charisma hack Adam Page. Give that title to Joe, Bryan or Punk.


1. Minoru Suzuki is still delivering great bangers (such as the one with Samoa Joe last night) in his 50s, and he's certainly not a "jobber." He's a well-respected legend, and is an upper-midcarder in NJPW.

2. They can continue to feature as many potential ROH match-ups as they can, and still continue to maintain interest in their product too.

3. Yes, one of the most over guys in AEW over the last couple of years in Adam Page somehow has 'no' charisma.

The misunderstanding gets a big yikes from me.


----------



## Aedubya

---Anything above 0.85 is good, anything above 0.9 is v good , anything above 0.95 is brilliant , anything above 1.0 is outstanding----

Brilliant rating


----------



## Aedubya

More negativity from WrestlingInc


----------



## Ultimo Duggan

.christopher. said:


> No competition, moving to TBS, signed Bryan and Punk, and they can't get above a million. Blimey.


Do you like the show and the promotion though? That is what matters. I enjoy about three quarters of every show almost automatically every week. Occasionally it dips closer to half the show that is always enjoyable. 

Last night ended on a thud but the parts of the show were definitely not duds. Change the women’s match and keep Giant Singh Dos for parts in the Factory. Khalil was originally known as Giant Singh. He was waaaay more roofed in 2001 than in WWE. How he succeeded in WWE is a testament to the low standards accepted in the WWE Universe.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Randomly assembled wrestling matches with no build doesn’t draw… I am fucking shocked 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

NathanMayberry said:


> Randomly assembled wrestling matches with no build doesn’t draw… I am fucking shocked
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*Bro, you don't understand-WHEELER YUTA DREW 200,000 EXTRA VIEWERS BY HIMSELF ON RAMPAGE! He's the new Stone Cold Steve Austin and bleeding with Moxley was his WrestleMania 13 moment.*


----------



## NathanMayberry

Suddenly AEW has gone from the show with the biggest gain in audience year over year to the show with the largest drop.

I wonder how Dave will squirm his way into turning this into a positive for AEW 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sad Panda

Seems to me they’ve been sitting in this general area with slight blips here and there. Consistency I would suggest is something that is seen as a positive for the most part. Or I could be wrong, I don’t know anything about why tv execs are looking for.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Shit, you guys are lucky I'm not an insane billionaire cause my show'd just be early 90s WCW. Fortunately, I'm just insane.





this would be on mandatory loop backstage


----------



## .christopher.

Ultimo Duggan said:


> Do you like the show and the promotion though? That is what matters. I enjoy about three quarters of every show almost automatically every week. Occasionally it dips closer to half the show that is always enjoyable.
> 
> Last night ended on a thud but the parts of the show were definitely not duds. Change the women’s match and keep Giant Singh Dos for parts in the Factory. Khalil was originally known as Giant Singh. He was waaaay more roofed in 2001 than in WWE. How he succeeded in WWE is a testament to the low standards accepted in the WWE Universe.


Fair enough if you enjoy the majority of the show but this thread is about discussing the ratings.

After all the buzz a few months ago during that period of anticipating Bryan and Punk's debuts, to them actually joining, it's nothing but a disappointment to see the ratings where they are now. Especially after moving to TBS considering most said they'd get more viewers from being there.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

.christopher. said:


> Fair enough if you enjoy the majority of the show but this thread is about discussing the ratings.
> 
> After all the buzz a few months ago during that period of anticipating Bryan and Punk's debuts, to them actually joining, it's nothing but a disappointment to see the ratings where they are now. Especially after moving to TBS considering most said they'd get more viewers from being there.


* Keep in mind that the same people acting like being under a million is OK were predicting 1.2 to 1.3 million after Punk and Bryan. Jericho's stupid ass said they would be beating RAW in ratings within 6 months last fall.*


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8




----------



## .christopher.

The Legit Lioness said:


> * Keep in mind that the same people acting like being under a million is OK were predicting 1.2 to 1.3 million after Punk and Bryan. Jericho's stupid ass said they would be beating RAW in ratings within 6 months last fall.*


Yep! Truthfully, I thought they'd be getting consistent ratings around that range, too. I think it was possible but they killed Punk and Bryan's hype in no time at all with poor booking. Who would've thought that them two having somewhat competitive matches with jobbers would backfire?

Oh, God... I completely forget about Jericho. He really has transformed into a complete buffoon.


----------



## Geert Wilders

I know someone will cock back with “this is pro-wrestling”, but the show has too much wrestling. Match after match is boring 

theres too much going on externally as well. Why should we as AEW fans care about ROH?

tony khan really needs to go back to the drawing board. He’s fucking up here.


----------



## iarwain

Geert Wilders said:


> I know someone will cock back with “this is pro-wrestling”, but the show has too much wrestling. Match after match is boring


I kind of agree. They need better, more interesting storylines. The matches are good, but too many are meaningless, we need reasons to care.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

DaSlacker said:


> Tony should just say fuck it. Stand back and give Cornette the book for Dynamite and Russo the book for Rampage.


Eddie Kingston sucks and that feud with the JAS is boring


----------



## DammitChrist

DaSlacker said:


> Tony should just say fuck it. *Stand back and give Cornette the book for Dynamite and Russo the book for Rampage.*


That'll just kill the good/entertaining product that they have right now though. I'll pass to that.


----------



## omaroo

The whole JAS and Kingston and Co feud is not just bad but really underwhelming. 

Apart from the MJF/Wardlow storyline there isn't anything as hot.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Swerve/Lee/Starks/Hobbs did a pretty bad number given how good the match was. I was wondering what they’d do since AEW’s demo skews far whiter than WWE and this was the first time I think AEW has had 5 black guys in the ring (including ref) all at once. So that pairing I doubt TK puts on again.


----------



## Mr316

What an awful number. Then again WTF is Suzuki doing main eventing Dynamite.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Mr316 said:


> What an awful number. Then again WTF is Suzuki doing main eventing Dynamite.


*Because you will be told that if you don't like him, you don't know real wrestling, then they'll wake up surprised when no one fucking watches his matches.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> What an awful number. Then again WTF is Suzuki doing main eventing Dynamite.


Minoru Suzuki is a respected legend from NJPW, was the ROH World Television Champion, and this wasn't even the 1st time that he main-evented Dynamite too.

He's one of the countless examples of truly great wrestling alternatives (despite being in his 50s).


----------



## Mr316

Also, there’s just too much wrestling. Since forever people watch wrestling of course for the matches but also for some great in ring segments. Match after match after match…it works for a PPV. Not a weekly show.


----------



## La Parka

Another rating below one million.

Is it any coincidence that Brandi hasn’t been on the program in weeks? No, it’s not. We lost the lovely Brandi and replaced her with WWE castoffs and old Japanese men. Disgusting!


----------



## Mr316

DammitChrist said:


> Minoru Suzuki is a respected legend from NJPW, was the ROH World Television Champion, and this wasn't even the 1st time that he main-evented Dynamite too.
> 
> He's one of the countless examples of truly great wrestling alternatives (despite being in his 50s).


Sure. No ones gives a shit about him and his main event with Mox was awful.


----------



## omaroo

I enjoy the wrestling if the right people are invovled.

With not many hot storylines/angles going on barring MJF/Wardlow it can get boring and stale.. 

Promos and segments at times should be better as comes across as cringy and forced such as, anything to do with JAS. 

I don't think TK is willing to change the formula whether or not he is creative enough to do so in the first place.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> Sure. No ones gives a shit about him and his main event with Mox was awful.


Nah, Minoru Suzuki put on a great physical match against Samoa Joe last night 

For the record, Suzuki got 1 of the loudest pops of the night by just confronting Joe (before smacking the living crap out of each other); but I suppose that supposedly means that ‘nobody’ cares about him somehow.


----------



## NXT Only

iarwain said:


> I kind of agree. They need better, more interesting storylines. The matches are good, but too many are meaningless, we need reasons to care.


This cannot be further from the truth.


----------



## NXT Only

All your solutions to increase ratings are based off of personal preference or just hating what they give you. Reality is the ratings are more of a product of a large portion of the audience having it run live at 5 in the evening when no one is home.


----------



## DaSlacker

DammitChrist said:


> That'll just kill the good/entertaining product that they have right now though. I'll pass to that.


There's always that. Sometimes you can change creative and it goes to hell. Other times it can bring about a fantastic angle. Either way, it's more interesting for the fans to try a new direction every few years.


----------



## Mister Sinister

The best path forward is to just move the belt from Hangman to Andrade, make Wardlow the TNT champion after the MJF match and have him defend every week until it's time for him to vacate and challenge the world champion.


----------



## omaroo

Mister Sinister said:


> The best path forward is to just *move the belt from Hangman to Andrade,* make Wardlow the TNT champion after the MJF match and have him defend every week until it's time for him to vacate and challenge the world champion.


That would be a disaster. Andrade can't talk for shit and has no charisma nor is he over in any way with the crowd. Decent enough wrestler but that's it. 

Hangman is still popular just has been badly booked. 

Personally even though I like him he has to drop the title at DON.


----------



## iarwain

NXT Only said:


> This cannot be further from the truth.


How so? Are you saying the matches are bad and the storytelling is good? Because that's the opposite of what I said. 
And FYI I do not hate the product, I just think they could improve their storytelling and give us better motivation to care. Maybe that is my personal preference, but if it is so what?


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Mister Sinister said:


> The best path forward is to just move the belt from Hangman to Andrade, make Wardlow the TNT champion after the MJF match and have him defend every week until it's time for him to vacate and challenge the world champion.


Moving the title from one black hole of charisma to another that cant not even speak english. Really great idea there LOL.

Andrade is a afterthought nobody now. Give the belt to Bryan and let him try to salvage this shit show.


----------



## DammitChrist

Nah, Adam Page has plenty of charisma, and he’s the rightful world champion atm.


----------



## RainmakerV2

YUGE ANNOUNCEMENT just in time to save the day.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> That'll just kill the good/entertaining product that they have right now though. I'll pass to that.


Idk Dynamite is closer to NXT 2.0 numbers that you claim is a sign of failure to please fans than it is closer to the numbers of a SmackDown or Raw. Maybe Dynamite is failing to entertain


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> Idk Dynamite is closer to NXT 2.0 numbers that you claim is a sign of failure to please fans than it is closer to the numbers of a SmackDown or Raw. Maybe Dynamite is failing to entertain


NXT 2.0 frequently gets mixed-to-negative reviews for their shows while being consistently outdrawn by most of Indy NXT's episodes from last year (with the revamp STILL failing to reach 800+ K viewers unlike the old format that successfully did several times) whereas Dynamite regularly gets mostly positive reviews for their shows while mostly growing from last year's audience.

They're not even on the same conversation here regarding quality *and *quantity.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> NXT 2.0 frequently gets mixed-to-negative reviews for their shows while being consistently outdrawn by most of Indy NXT's episodes from last year (with the revamp STILL failing to reach 800+ K viewers unlike the old format that successfully did several times) whereas Dynamite regularly gets mostly positive reviews for their shows while mostly growing from last year's audience.
> 
> They're not even on the same conversation here regarding quality *and *quantity.


Idk with the influx of main event and midcard talent, these so called well received shows are still closer the failure you seem NXT 2.0 than shows like Raw or Smackdown. I mean when you got Punk, Bryan, Mox, Jericho, Sting, The Hardys, The 4 Pillars, and The Elite on one show and you're closer numbers wise to a show lead by Bron Breakker than Raw or SmackDown numbers........


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> Idk with the influx of main event and midcard talent, these so called well received shows are still closer the failure you seem NXT 2.0 than shows like Raw or Smackdown. I mean when you got Punk, Bryan, Mox, Jericho, Sting, The Hardys, The 4 Pillars, and The Elite on one show and you're closer numbers wise to a show lead by Bron Breakker than Raw or SmackDown numbers........


Their overall growth looks more like a success to me


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Their overall growth looks more like a success to me


Idk man that overall growth looking shaky in the light


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, Minoru Suzuki put on a great physical match against Samoa Joe last night
> 
> For the record, Suzuki got 1 of the loudest pops of the night by just confronting Joe (before smacking the living crap out of each other); but I suppose that supposedly means that ‘nobody’ cares about him somehow.


According to the ratings, 200k people didn't care enough about him to stick around for his match. 

That's more people that were in the arena


----------



## NathanMayberry

NXT Only said:


> All your solutions to increase ratings are based off of personal preference or just hating what they give you. Reality is the ratings are more of a product of a large portion of the audience having it run live at 5 in the evening when no one is home.


Wow... this is legitimitely the most pathetic excuse I've ever read for AEW.. 

Literally, every show that starts at 8 PM is affected by this issue. That's what happens when you live in a country with timezones...


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

Randy Lahey said:


> Swerve/Lee/Starks/Hobbs did a pretty bad number given how good the match was. I was wondering what they’d do since AEW’s demo skews far whiter than WWE and this was the first time I think AEW has had 5 black guys in the ring (including ref) all at once. So that pairing I doubt TK puts on again.


So you're saying AEW's mostly white fans are racist and don't want to see black people onscreen? Am I reading you correctly?


----------



## Geert Wilders

NXT Only said:


> All your solutions to increase ratings are based off of personal preference or just hating what they give you. Reality is the ratings are more of a product of a large portion of the audience having it run live at 5 in the evening when no one is home.


They started off with a million. Over a million people were watching and they couldn’t hold onto that.

Were those million people not at home?


----------



## Ultimo Duggan

RapShepard said:


> Idk with the influx of main event and midcard talent, these so called well received shows are still closer the failure you seem NXT 2.0 than shows like Raw or Smackdown. I mean when you got Punk, Bryan, Mox, Jericho, Sting, The Hardys, The 4 Pillars, and The Elite on one show and you're closer numbers wise to a show lead by Bron Breakker than Raw or SmackDown numbers........


It says BRAND LOYALTY IS A THING. Many more people know of and enjoy WWE and whatever it endorses. WWE is the McDonalds of wrestling. 

That fried food smell driving past is awfully tempting. It might be ten years since my last trip to McD’s but I could enjoy their menu without thinking too hard on what to order. I really prefer other fast food more and I don’t need to think about Big Macs at all. Apart from a few years before The Shield broke up WWE is a last resort when I want to watch wrestling.

AEW doesn’t expect to be
McDonalds, at least not yet by even its loudest defenders. They have an insanely varied menu for all kinds of appetites. Maybe they will diversify or streamline the items available but the company is still young and slowly growing.


----------



## RapShepard

Ultimo Duggan said:


> It says BRAND LOYALTY IS A THING. Many more people know of and enjoy WWE and whatever it endorses. WWE is the McDonalds of wrestling.
> 
> That fried food smell driving past is awfully tempting. It might be ten years since my last trip to McD’s but I could enjoy their menu without thinking too hard on what to order. I really prefer other fast food more and I don’t need to think about Big Macs at all. Apart from a few years before The Shield broke up WWE is a last resort when I want to watch wrestling.
> 
> AEW doesn’t expect to be
> McDonalds, at least not yet by even its loudest defenders. They have an insanely varied menu for all kinds of appetites. Maybe they will diversify or streamline the items available but the company is still young and slowly growing.


In this context AEW is even worse than McDonald's. You see at least McDonald's started off with humble beginnings before it sold out and became the uninspired corporate man lol. Meanwhile AEW over here just brought straight into sell out large corporation status while pretending to be the underdog


----------



## .christopher.

Mister Sinister said:


> The best path forward is to just move the belt from Hangman to Andrade, make Wardlow the TNT champion after the MJF match and have him defend every week until it's time for him to vacate and challenge the world champion.


Andrade makes boring Page look like Stone Cold.

Page should've never won the belt in the first place. The people to beat Omega were Punk, Bryan or Cody. No one else had world title aura. Now, no one has world title aura. Everyone is just in the same boat of standard wrestling performer.


----------



## fabi1982

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> View attachment 120622


Good for Punks ego, would love to see his numbers when he appears to be in the 4th quarter. But this way he can tell himself he is still the difference maker. Sad person.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan

RapShepard said:


> In this context AEW is even worse than McDonald's. You see at least McDonald's started off with humble beginnings before it sold out and became the uninspired corporate man lol. Meanwhile AEW over here just brought straight into sell out large corporation status while pretending to be the underdog


Believe me…I have no idea who would be an out of nowhere competitive and popular fast food place. It would need to be bigger than regional specialties.

AEW is White Castle is a comparison I have avoided intentionally. It seems too hipster and trendy to name drop White Castle. Maybe a big submarine sandwich chain is more comparable. Now I’m just running it into the ground.

WWE is Mc Donald’s though. That is about as spot on as we can get. If they also tried rebranding the hamburger as meat sandwich jamboree then the comparison would be an accurate yet scary fast food version of pro wrestling.


----------



## RapShepard

Ultimo Duggan said:


> Believe me…I have no idea who would be an out of nowhere competitive and popular fast food place. It would need to be bigger than regional specialties.
> 
> AEW is White Castle is a comparison I have avoided intentionally. It seems too hipster and trendy to name drop White Castle. Maybe a big submarine sandwich chain is more comparable. Now I’m just running it into the ground.
> 
> WWE is Mc Donald’s though. That is about as spot on as we can get. If they also tried rebranding the hamburger as meat sandwich jamboree then the comparison would be an accurate yet scary fast food version of pro wrestling.


Nah White Castles is a true from humble beginnings as well, that's not AEW . AEW is what'd it be like if Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk decided to jump into fast food. 

But nah I'm talking shit to DC don't mind it. There's an argument they legit should be doing better with the roster. But they're usually a top 5 show on Wednesday so it's whatever. 

Also White Castle got some secret gems, I'm from Columbus so I'm definitely familiar.


----------



## Jaxon

Surprised by this number if I'm honest, something isn't right with all the talent they have and i mean top top talent they should NOT be dropping.

I know people dont like change but it might be worth a try, get the stars on weekly and see what the numbers bring


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Idk with the influx of main event and midcard talent, these so called well received shows are still closer the failure you seem NXT 2.0 than shows like Raw or Smackdown. I mean when you got Punk, Bryan, Mox, Jericho, Sting, The Hardys, The 4 Pillars, and The Elite on one show and you're closer numbers wise to a show lead by Bron Breakker than Raw or SmackDown numbers........


*Damn, imagine having more comparable numbers to Titty Tuesday Sports Entertainment with the best PROFESSIONAL WRESTLERS in the world than the oh so awful RAW and Smackdown. That's got to be embarrassing for everyone involved and the fandom.*


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, Minoru Suzuki put on a great physical match against Samoa Joe last night
> 
> For the record, Suzuki got 1 of the loudest pops of the night by just confronting Joe (before smacking the living crap out of each other); but I suppose that supposedly means that ‘nobody’ cares about him somehow.


I assure you the casuals don't care about Suzuki. I don't care about him either. I am also over the ROH stuff.


----------



## CM Buck

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Damn, imagine having more comparable numbers to Titty Tuesday Sports Entertainment with the best PROFESSIONAL WRESTLERS in the world than the oh so awful RAW and Smackdown. That's got to be embarrassing for everyone involved and the fandom.*


Watch it dude. It's looking like you're attacking aew fans with that last line. The mark wars dead please don't revive it.


----------



## Kishido

The fun bots are even manipulating ratings


----------



## 3venflow

During his podcast, Matt Hardy talked about WarnerMedia/Discovery merger and how it might affect the future of AEW programming on TBS/TNT…

_“They [network officials] are extremely happy with AEW right now. I don’t know of anyone that has been concerned about it. I haven’t seen any kind of worry or concern. I mean, it’s just business as usual.”

“For the foreseeable future, I continue to see it as business as usual, especially because the Dynamite show is doing great. It’s in the top five every single week. It’s a live program, which people love and they’re really behind it. You have to always remember too that it’s only three years old, which is quite a statement that it’s already in the top three to five every single week.”_









Network officials said to be "extremely happy" with AEW right now - NoDQ.com: WWE and AEW Coverage


The latest WWE and AEW backstage wrestling news, rumors, opinions, and special features.




nodq.com


----------



## CovidFan

The Legit Lioness said:


> * Keep in mind that the same people acting like being under a million is OK were predicting 1.2 to 1.3 million after Punk and Bryan. Jericho's stupid ass said they would be beating RAW in ratings within 6 months last fall.*


I thought they'd stay around 1.1-1.3 but let's not pretend that just under 1m isn't ok. ~1m is fine. It's a sustainable product at that spot and it hasn't dipped under 800k in a long time which is some good consistency.

DC, I love MiSu but come on. Dude shouldn't be main eventing an American wrestling show that he isn't regularly on.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

CovidFan said:


> I thought they'd stay around 1.1-1.3 but let's not pretend that just under 1m isn't ok. ~1m is fine. It's a sustainable product at that spot and it hasn't dipped under 800k in a long time which is some good consistency.
> 
> DC, I love MiSu but come on. Dude shouldn't be main eventing an American wrestling show that he isn't regularly on.


*It isn't OK because 20 signings since Punk and Bryan have produced negative results. Jericho continues to put his foot in his mouth about Tony Khan taking over wrestling in the next 5 years after his embarrassing prediction about beating RAW in total viewership blew up in his face.*


----------



## Prosper

Some of you people are downright insane. I mean how much longer?

Insanity = Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Let's see who tattle-tales to the moderators and reports me for calling them insane...

The ratings are up = silence. Ratings are down = noise. Over a million? Silence. Under a million? Noise. 

Over and under a million on live cable is not the only determinant of success, no matter which way the needle swings.

3 years and we're still going back and forth about fluctuating live cable audiences. 3 years and people are still ignoring the details. 3 years and people are still undermining AEW's growth and equalizing it with a dwindling cable audience despite the fact that they know the state of the industry. 

I mean damn. AEW is doing more than fine. Just because you don't see live cable growth in an industry where people are cutting the cord doesn't mean that the recent signings have done nothing to help, because as you can see every other metric has grown and arena sell outs are more prominent than they were before.


----------



## DammitChrist

Prosper said:


> Some of you people are downright insane. I mean how much longer?
> 
> Insanity = Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Let's see who tattle-tales to the moderators and reports me for calling them insane...
> 
> The ratings are up = silence. Ratings are down = noise. Over a million? Silence. Under a million? Noise.
> 
> Over and under a million on live cable is not the only determinant of success, no matter which way the needle swings.
> 
> 3 years and we're still going back and forth about fluctuating live cable audiences. 3 years and people are still ignoring the details. 3 years and people are still undermining AEW's growth and equalizing it with a dwindling cable audience despite the fact that they know the state of the industry.
> 
> I mean damn. AEW is doing more than fine. Just because you don't see live cable growth in an industry where people are cutting the cord doesn't mean that the recent signings have done nothing to help, because as you can see every other metric has grown and arena sell outs are more prominent than they were before.


There’s also the fact that their ppv buyrates have increased significantly ever since they signed CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, and Adam Cole. 

They lost Cody Rhodes recently, and they still haven’t really been hurt at all since AEW Revolution 2022 turned out to be very successful (along with the ppv being great overall too).


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> Some of you people are downright insane. I mean how much longer?
> 
> Insanity = Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Let's see who tattle-tales to the moderators and reports me for calling them insane...
> 
> The ratings are up = silence. Ratings are down = noise. Over a million? Silence. Under a million? Noise.
> 
> Over and under a million on live cable is not the only determinant of success, no matter which way the needle swings.
> 
> 3 years and we're still going back and forth about fluctuating live cable audiences. 3 years and people are still ignoring the details. 3 years and people are still undermining AEW's growth and equalizing it with a dwindling cable audience despite the fact that they know the state of the industry.
> 
> I mean damn. AEW is doing more than fine. Just because you don't see live cable growth in an industry where people are cutting the cord doesn't mean that the recent signings have done nothing to help, because as you can see every other metric has grown and arena sell outs are more prominent than they were before.


Multiple things can be true

1. They're doing fine

2. Given their resources they aren't performing at the level you'd assume ratings wise. 

The Nets are a playoff team, which means they had a successful season. But you'd be hard pressed to find somebody in sports media that didn't think them being the 8th seed is an underperformance. 

I can't imagine you thought in your heart and soul that just under a million would be the norm for them unopposed with Punk and Bryan on the roster. Not that I think you thought they'd be doing over the debut numbers either.


----------



## CovidFan

The Legit Lioness said:


> *It isn't OK because 20 signings since Punk and Bryan have produced negative results. Jericho continues to put his foot in his mouth about Tony Khan taking over wrestling in the next 5 years after his embarrassing prediction about beating RAW in total viewership blew up in his face.*


I'd agree with you if you said it's "disappointing" but the show itself is fine. To me not being ok means it's on shaky ground with the network and we can safely assume that isn't the case.

edit: my post is just a shorter version of the one above me


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Going from a 1.2 mill for a few weeks to 800k is not fine. 400k people did not cut cable and decide to stop watching that fast . not when SD and RAW are still the same about ratings wise.

Ticket sales are very low and not moving well at all for all these big stars Tony keeps hiring. Tony can bulk buy his own tickets all he wants but the empty arenas dont lie.

Sure Cody is gone but hiring Punk and Bryan is probably equal to paying 5 Codys. Not to mention all these other mid card dorks from wwe he keeps signing like murphy, adrade and lee. The payroll has to be insanely high.

Matt Hardy is a fucking moron and I doubt he is in talks with anyone from a network. If the merged brands decide no more AEW or time to go full PG then AEW is fucked just like Impact.


----------



## 3venflow

CenaBoy4Life said:


> Ticket sales are very low and not moving well at all for all these big stars Tony keeps hiring.


This isn't correct. I follow the ticket sales closely (have a sub to WrestleTix). Some of the upcoming shows have their best advances in a long time. They've sold over 13,000 for two upcoming shows (DoN and Cali), 5,500 for Philly, and 9,000 for the Detroit show. They also sold 3,500 tickets in one day for June's show in Missouri and are approaching 10,000 combined sales for the Dynamite and Rampage live events in Las Vegas.

As for ratings, I'm not going to bother too much as I've stated my argument before. People who look at linear viewership in a declining industry are either being willfully ignorant or just don't understand what has changed. @Prosper covered the main topics, specifically literally millions of people have cut the cord year on year, so you're expecting AEW (and WWE with RAW) to conjure new viewers out of nowhere.

Smackdown's ratings are nearly half from their FOX debut, but they're still usually the #1 show on network TV in the key metric (which is what FOX are looking at). Just like Dynamite is almost always top 3 to 5. If they're not doing well, then thousands of shows are doing worse. The ONLY way to objectively judge ratings is to look at the weekly charts and see where the shows rank in comparison to everything else on TV. AEW's B show in the graveyard shift finished #11 in the Nielsen rankings on *all TV* last Friday, including the network primetime shows. If that can't lend a sense of perspective, nothing will.


----------



## The XL 2

Besides Cena, Batista, and arguably Orton the next 3 biggest stars since the end of the Attitude era were Bryan, Punk and Jeff Hardy. Its impressive how quickly Tony Khan has killed their drawing power and rendered them meaningless.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Multiple things can be true
> 
> 1. They're doing fine
> 
> 2. Given their resources they aren't performing at the level you'd assume ratings wise.
> 
> The Nets are a playoff team, which means they had a successful season. But you'd be hard pressed to find somebody in sports media that didn't think them being the 8th seed is an underperformance.
> 
> I can't imagine you thought in your heart and soul that just under a million would be the norm for them unopposed with Punk and Bryan on the roster. Not that I think you thought they'd be doing over the debut numbers either.


They’re doing great but you also have to look at AEW’s numbers from the perspective of the state of the cable industry. If less and less people are watching through cable which we all knew was the case, then it’ll be tough for them to all of a sudden hit those RAW numbers that most (including me at the start) are wanting them to hit. I admittedly at the start assumed that more of the WWE cable audience would switch over to watching AEW, so early on I did think that numbers would be higher based on that alone, but never did I think that AEW would magically unlock a new audience of viewers or attract new casual cable viewers, which is what most seem to be expecting. Then when they don’t hit those numbers they hold it against AEW like they’re failing when it’s the opposite. WWE’s Brand loyalty is very strong and attracting the older WWE audience into AEW through cable was something I may have been overly optimistic about.

Now that we have the numbers and we see that some weeks they are over a million and some weeks slightly below, I think we have a good foundation where people can re-assess and not ignore all the information presented to them, (PPV buyrates, cable rankings, demos, YT views, fast moving arena sellouts) especially after 3 years and especially considering that they’re doing great in every other metric with new international expansions to come. If they were dwindling in everything else that would be a problem, but not hitting 1.2 million overall every week on live cable is not the only metric people should be looking at. As a hardcore I maybe catch 2 Dynamites live a month.

Around a million a week on cable with rankings in the top 3 almost every week is successful for cable. Most weeks the YT Rampage views exceed live cable views, which should tell people all they need to know. Dynamite YT views certainly exceeds live cable.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> They’re doing great but you also have to look at AEW’s numbers from the perspective of the state of the cable industry. If less and less people are watching through cable which we all knew was the case, then it’ll be tough for them to all of a sudden hit those RAW numbers that most (including me at the start) are wanting them to hit. I admittedly at the start assumed that more of the WWE cable audience would switch over to watching AEW, so early on I did think that numbers would be higher based on that alone, but never did I think that AEW would magically unlock a new audience of viewers or attract new casual cable viewers, which is what most seem to be expecting. Then when they don’t hit those numbers they hold it against AEW like they’re failing when it’s the opposite. WWE’s Brand loyalty is very strong and attracting the older WWE audience into AEW through cable was something I may have been overly optimistic about.
> 
> Now that we have the numbers and we see that some weeks they are over a million and some weeks slightly below, I think we have a good foundation where people can re-assess and not ignore all the information presented to them, (PPV buyrates, cable rankings, demos, YT views, fast moving arena sellouts) especially after 3 years and especially considering that they’re doing great in every other metric with new international expansions to come. If they were dwindling in everything else that would be a problem, but not hitting 1.2 million overall every week on live cable is not the only metric people should be looking at. As a hardcore I maybe catch 2 Dynamites live a month.
> 
> Around a million a week on cable with rankings in the top 3 almost every week is successful for cable. Most weeks the YT Rampage views exceed live cable views, which should tell people all they need to know. Dynamite YT views certainly exceeds live cable.


They're definitely successful no doubt. 

But yeah a roster that stacked is going to catch jokes when they can't pull a million on cable weekly. Like yeah they're definitely successful and sure cord cutting exists. But it doesn't exist that serious that a million is just something they shouldn't be expected to hit.

AEW catching jokes for not hitting a million viewers is their version of WWE catching jokes for not selling out every arena. Neither company is going to die because of those things. Just ripe for jokes.


----------



## Sad Panda

Any information on how those west coast shows are selling? Last I read things were going quite well.


----------



## 3venflow

@Sad Panda

Latest tickets sold/current capacity with the last updated info dates:

5/25 Dynamite - 4,379/5,485 (as of 10 days ago)
5/27 Rampage - 4,432/5,479 (as of 10 days ago)
5/29 PPV (DoN) - 13,140/13,524 (as of 12 days ago, only limited view remained)
6/1 Dynamite -13,029/14,079 (as of 3 days ago)
6/3 Rampage - 7,269/7,355 (as of 3 weeks ago)


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> This isn't correct. I follow the ticket sales closely (have a sub to WrestleTix). Some of the upcoming shows have their best advances in a long time. They've sold over 13,000 for two upcoming shows (DoN and Cali), 5,500 for Philly, and 9,000 for the Detroit show. They also sold 3,500 tickets in one day for June's show in Missouri and are approaching 10,000 combined sales for the Dynamite and Rampage live events in Las Vegas.
> 
> As for ratings, I'm not going to bother too much as I've stated my argument before. People who look at linear viewership in a declining industry are either being willfully ignorant or just don't understand what has changed. @Prosper covered the main topics, specifically literally millions of people have cut the cord year on year, so you're expecting AEW (and WWE with RAW) to conjure new viewers out of nowhere.
> 
> Smackdown's ratings are nearly half from their FOX debut, but they're still usually the #1 show on network TV in the key metric (which is what FOX are looking at). Just like Dynamite is almost always top 3 to 5. If they're not doing well, then thousands of shows are doing worse. The ONLY way to objectively judge ratings is to look at the weekly charts and see where the shows rank in comparison to everything else on TV. AEW's B show in the graveyard shift finished #11 in the Nielsen rankings on *all TV* last Friday, including the network primetime shows. If that can't lend a sense of perspective, nothing will.


Hi Tiny


Nice to finally figure out who you are. 

—-


Any way, I have no idea how people here are trying to spin doing worse ratings with Punk and Bryan than before they got Punk and Bryan is actually a good thing.. like weren’t they signed to boost ratings? This week AEW had the largest YOY drop of any wrestling show..


Either way, Adam “who the fuck are you?” Page is not someone you out a world championship on and AEW is victims of its own shit story more than anyone else. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## omaroo

NathanMayberry said:


> Hi Tiny
> 
> 
> Nice to finally figure out who you are.
> 
> —-
> 
> 
> Any way, I have no idea how people here are trying to spin doing worse ratings with Punk and Bryan than before they Punk and Bryan is actually a good thing.. like weren’t they signed to boost ratings? This week AEW had the largest YOY drop of any wrestling show..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes AEW is gona die in 2023


----------



## NathanMayberry

omaroo said:


> Yes AEW is gona die in 2023


I didn’t say that, but at the rate they’re going, they be in the 800s pretty soon, despite having a lead of almost 2 million 

The show is spastically booked with an announcement or debut nearly every week. Warner/discovery is well aware they can air 4 Big Bang Theory reruns and get better viewership as is Tiny. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RoganJosh

NathanMayberry said:


> I didn’t say that, but at the rate they’re going, they be in the 800s pretty soon, despite having a lead of almost 2 million
> 
> The show is spastically booked with an announcement or debut nearly every week. Warner/discovery is well aware they can air 4 Big Bang Theory reruns and get better viewership as is Tiny.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You sound like an ignorant loser. BBT is watched by virgin basement dwellers, do you think the show makes any money through advertising revenue? You need to stop with your obsession and desires with viewing figures. It's all about interest levels from advertisers. 

The success of AEW cannot be determined by viewing figures. Look at merch and ticket sales as well as PPV buys, these are through the roof. To put it into context the recent RoH PPV did 20k buys and that is considered a huge success and here you've got AEW doing 10x those numbers. Come on man stop talking shit, go educate yourself and go worship WWE instead.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> They're definitely successful no doubt.
> 
> But yeah a roster that stacked is going to catch jokes when they can't pull a million on cable weekly. Like yeah they're definitely successful and sure cord cutting exists. But it doesn't exist that serious that a million is just something they shouldn't be expected to hit.
> 
> AEW catching jokes for not hitting a million viewers is their version of WWE catching jokes for not selling out every arena. Neither company is going to die because of those things. Just ripe for jokes.


I don’t mind the jokes if they come off that way, a lot of the time it doesn’t, just that some of these people are straight malicious, and others like validreasoning do in fact want the company dead lol, it’s just silly to me that people been going in circles since 2019 talking the same shit


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515448984571101185
*Indian YouTube is already embracing Satnam. It's going to be ugly on TV though.*


----------



## Gn1212

And there's the follow up too.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515448984571101185It's so clear who draws and who doesn't.

Punk, Mox and Bryan are the biggest draws, by some margin. Then it's MJF, and then there's the rest...

I guess you could argue the Hardys are in there too. The biggest fall is Jericho though.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> I don’t mind the jokes if they come off that way, a lot of the time it doesn’t, just that some of these people are straight malicious, and others like validreasoning do in fact want the company dead lol, it’s just silly to me that people been going in circles since 2019 talking the same shit


That's just how it works for popular things though. Some criticism is valid, some isn't. Some things are jokes, and some are mean. Perceived failure is going to get shit talk serious or not. WWE has made a fuck ton of money under Cena and Reigns, didn't stop them from getting a fuck ton of negative feedback. AEW isn't going to be exempt from that energy, even with it being the hardcore darling.


----------



## NathanMayberry

RoganJosh said:


> You sound like an ignorant loser.


Wow...I'm at a loss for words.. The projection from AEW marks knows no limits..




RoganJosh said:


> BBT is watched by virgin basement dwellers


What exactly do you call losers like this who watch AEW?













RoganJosh said:


> do you think the show makes any money through advertising revenue?


So you call me an ignorant loser yet don't think one of the most-watched shows on cable syndication, makes money through advertising?









Wednesday Final Ratings: TBS Leads Cable Networks in Prime Time Among Adults 18-49 Primarily with Reruns of ‘The Big Bang Theory’


Jump to: Live+7 (as of July 10, 2020) Live+3 (as of July 6, 2020) Broadcast Live+Same Day (as of July 2, 2020) Cable




programminginsider.com





When the two shows went head to head, reruns of The Big Bang Theory wiped the floor with Dynamite every single week...









Big Bang Theory gives Dynamte its massive lead in now.



RoganJosh said:


> You need to stop with your obsession and desires with viewing figures. It's all about interest levels from advertisers.


You have to be fucking delusional if you think that Warner Media would spend literally billions for reruns of a show that no one watches. ‘Big Bang Theory’ Sets Staggering Multi-Billion-Dollar HBO Max Streaming Deal

The Big Bang Theory was literally the most expensive show on TV when it was running and continues to be so in syndication.








Here's How Much It Costs To Advertise On 'The Big Bang Theory,' The Most Expensive Show On TV [THE BRIEF]


Hulu is on the verge of hiring a new CEO, Google's new advertising product looks to make online shopping more personal, and the rest of the latest from AdLand.




www.businessinsider.com







RoganJosh said:


> The success of AEW cannot be determined by viewing figures.


The success of a TV show can't be determined by how many people are watching it? That's makes sense..




RoganJosh said:


> Look at merch and ticket sales as well as PPV buys, these are through the roof.


Right cuz nothing says through the roof like 3,500 tickets sold in an arena that has 10k capacity..



















Even ROH was able to beat AEW there.. Lakefront Arena, New Orleans, Louisiana, United States - The Internet Wrestling Database



RoganJosh said:


> To put it into context the recent RoH PPV did 20k buys and that is considered a huge success


Says who? virgin basement dwellers? Tiny spent $40 million on ROH, 20,000 is not a success. Even if every single person paid full price he still wouldn't have made 1 percent of that back.



The Legit Lioness said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515448984571101185
> *Indian YouTube is already embracing Satnam. It's going to be ugly on TV though.*


Another week with a massive lead in that gets thrown away by shit booking.


----------



## Lady Eastwood

Alright, guys, tuck your dicks in and chill, no need to get aggressive with one another over ratings.

Cheers


----------



## RainmakerV2

Prosper said:


> Some of you people are downright insane. I mean how much longer?
> 
> Insanity = Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Let's see who tattle-tales to the moderators and reports me for calling them insane...
> 
> The ratings are up = silence. Ratings are down = noise. Over a million? Silence. Under a million? Noise.
> 
> Over and under a million on live cable is not the only determinant of success, no matter which way the needle swings.
> 
> 3 years and we're still going back and forth about fluctuating live cable audiences. 3 years and people are still ignoring the details. 3 years and people are still undermining AEW's growth and equalizing it with a dwindling cable audience despite the fact that they know the state of the industry.
> 
> I mean damn. AEW is doing more than fine. Just because you don't see live cable growth in an industry where people are cutting the cord doesn't mean that the recent signings have done nothing to help, because as you can see every other metric has grown and arena sell outs are more prominent than they were before.



Because some people on here.. (Not necessarily you) claimed by now they'd be beating RAW regularly and they're nowhere close even running unopposed and signing Bryan and Punk. If you want to give a tribal war, you have to be prepared to take a little when shit blows up in your face.


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite ended up at 3,700 paid and 3,900 total for those wondering. It had a pretty good walk-up on the day.

The Rampage/BotB show in Garland was at 4,600+ sold the day before the show. No final number has surfaced yet.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Dynamite ended up at 3,700 paid and 3,900 total for those wondering. It had a pretty good walk-up on the day.
> 
> The Rampage/BotB show in Garland was at 4,600+ sold the day before the show. No final number has surfaced yet.


I always wonder who the lucky bastards that get all those free tickets. Like I know radio contestants, but ain't that many people calling the radio station lol


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

RapShepard said:


> I always wonder who the lucky bastards that get all those free tickets. Like I know radio contestants, but ain't that many people calling the radio station lol


If I remember right it was through local sponsors back in the day. Not sure how now....


----------



## taker_2004

RapShepard said:


> I always wonder who the lucky bastards that get all those free tickets. Like I know radio contestants, but ain't that many people calling the radio station lol


Vince: Here, kid! Have a free WrestleMania ticket!
Little Jimmy: But...but sir, I'm working here selling hotdogs.
Vince: Tough shit, kid, you're number 93,000.


----------



## Geeee

NathanMayberry said:


> Wow...I'm at a loss for words.. The projection from AEW marks knows no limits..
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly do you call losers like this who watch AEW?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you call me an ignorant loser yet don't think one of the most-watched shows on cable syndication, makes money through advertising?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wednesday Final Ratings: TBS Leads Cable Networks in Prime Time Among Adults 18-49 Primarily with Reruns of ‘The Big Bang Theory’
> 
> 
> Jump to: Live+7 (as of July 10, 2020) Live+3 (as of July 6, 2020) Broadcast Live+Same Day (as of July 2, 2020) Cable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> programminginsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the two shows went head to head, reruns of The Big Bang Theory wiped the floor with Dynamite every single week...
> 
> View attachment 120740
> 
> Big Bang Theory gives Dynamte its massive lead in now.
> 
> 
> You have to be fucking delusional if you think that Warner Media would spend literally billions for reruns of a show that no one watches. ‘Big Bang Theory’ Sets Staggering Multi-Billion-Dollar HBO Max Streaming Deal
> 
> The Big Bang Theory was literally the most expensive show on TV when it was running and continues to be so in syndication.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's How Much It Costs To Advertise On 'The Big Bang Theory,' The Most Expensive Show On TV [THE BRIEF]
> 
> 
> Hulu is on the verge of hiring a new CEO, Google's new advertising product looks to make online shopping more personal, and the rest of the latest from AdLand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The success of a TV show can't be determined by how many people are watching it? That's makes sense..
> 
> 
> 
> Right cuz nothing says through the roof like 3,500 tickets sold in an arena that has 10k capacity..
> View attachment 120741
> 
> View attachment 120742
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even ROH was able to beat AEW there.. Lakefront Arena, New Orleans, Louisiana, United States - The Internet Wrestling Database
> 
> 
> Says who? virgin basement dwellers? Tiny spent $40 million on ROH, 20,000 is not a success. Even if every single person paid full price he still wouldn't have made 1 percent of that back.
> 
> 
> Another week with a massive lead in that gets thrown away by shit booking.


Why not only run episodes of The Big Bang Theory on TNT and TBS 24/7? I think those are bigger numbers than the NBA. Why did they waste so much money securing NBA rights?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

.christopher. said:


> No competition, moving to TBS, signed Bryan and Punk, and they can't get above a million. Blimey.


Yeah, it is a bit sad. 8 figures on big name talent and the rating is still around the same that it was two years ago when AEW had guys like Jelly and Marko running around.



DammitChrist said:


> For the record, Suzuki got 1 of the loudest pops of the night by just confronting Joe (before smacking the living crap out of each other); but I suppose that supposedly means that ‘nobody’ cares about him somehow.


TNA fans fell into this trap quite often. "THE LIVE AUDIENCE LOVED CHRIS SABIN THEREFORE HE SHOULD BE CHAMPION!"

You're booking for an internationally televised TV show, that means you need something that appeals internationally. Suzuki isn't that guy.



CovidFan said:


> I thought they'd stay around 1.1-1.3 but let's not pretend that just under 1m isn't ok. ~1m is fine. It's a sustainable product at that spot and it hasn't dipped under 800k in a long time which is some good consistency.
> 
> DC, I love MiSu but come on. Dude shouldn't be main eventing an American wrestling show that he isn't regularly on.


We're now at the point where as long as it isn't under 800k we're fine with it? A far cry from some claiming AEW would be beating RAW and Smackdown by now...



RoganJosh said:


> You sound like an ignorant loser. BBT is watched by virgin basement dwellers, do you think the show makes any money through advertising revenue? You need to stop with your obsession and desires with viewing figures. It's all about interest levels from advertisers.


And I suppose the advertisers are just chomping at the bit to advertise to all these winners who are much better than the LOSERS that watch Big Bang Theory:




























I can't find the photo of the guy who lifted his arms at an AEW event and sent the woman next to him moving her head in disgust unfortunately...


----------



## validreasoning

Prosper said:


> I don’t mind the jokes if they come off that way, a lot of the time it doesn’t, just that some of these people are straight malicious, and others like validreasoning do in fact want the company dead lol, it’s just silly to me that people been going in circles since 2019 talking the same shit


Please link one post where I said I want AEW dead...


----------



## CovidFan

validreasoning said:


> Please link one post where I said I want AEW dead...


You don't have to say it for it to be correctly assumed.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

Curious what the Rampage ratings were


----------



## bdon

Gn1212 said:


> And there's the follow up too.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515448984571101185It's so clear who draws and who doesn't.
> 
> Punk, Mox and Bryan are the biggest draws, by some margin. Then it's MJF, and then there's the rest...
> 
> I guess you could argue the Hardys are in there too. The biggest fall is Jericho though.


Except those 3 kept losing viewers. Wtf haha


----------



## Gn1212

bdon said:


> Except those 3 kept losing viewers. Wtf haha


See which people get the most views on YouTube.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, it is a bit sad. 8 figures on big name talent and the rating is still around the same that it was two years ago when AEW had guys like Jelly and Marko running around.
> 
> 
> 
> TNA fans fell into this trap quite often. "THE LIVE AUDIENCE LOVED CHRIS SABIN THEREFORE HE SHOULD BE CHAMPION!"
> 
> You're booking for an internationally televised TV show, that means you need something that appeals internationally. Suzuki isn't that guy.
> 
> 
> 
> We're now at the point where as long as it isn't under 800k we're fine with it? A far cry from some claiming AEW would be beating RAW and Smackdown by now...
> 
> 
> 
> And I suppose the advertisers are just chomping at the bit to advertise to all these winners who are much better than the LOSERS that watch Big Bang Theory:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't find the photo of the guy who lifted his arms at an AEW event and sent the woman next to him moving her head in disgust unfortunately...


Same could be said for WWE fans. The guy crying about CM Punk is whatever. I'm a HUGE Punk guy and honestly I nearly teared up over him coming out. Honestly Punk has had life issues that parallel my life. Some of the others could be deemed losers (at least the last one). I quit WWE after 30+ years on the Road to Wrestlemania last year because I honestly work too much 50-60 hours and a decent drive everyday to waste time on a product I find boring and sanitized. I prefer AEW because it is rougher around the edges and I only commit to 2 hours a week. I youtube the 'E and keep up on what is going on to some degree. AEW is far from perfect but I would rather watch something fun and imperfect to what you get with WWE which is over-produced and the 10,000 camera cuts are just unenjoyable. The promos and pandering of Sports Entertainment and WWE Universe make me want to throw up in my mouth. I know AEW can overdo it with the Professional Wrestling line but that is what we watch. Sports Entertainment to me is like the Harlem Globetrotters not Wrestling. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516146026238914565

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Disappointing number I think. I do think the Rampage ratings would be higher if they moved to the earlier timeslot permanently, since people would get used to the start time. But I believe the last Rampage with an earlier start fared no better than the usual late timeslot too.

Edit: Just checked and last time Rampage was on earlier, it did 471k/0.20.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*@LifeInCattleClass EASTER IS OVER!! COME OUT AND PLAY!!! 😃









 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516146026238914565*


----------



## La Parka

Primetime and a world title match? 

Ooooof. Y’all can’t tell me CM Punk defending his world title at 7 on a Friday couldn’t do better than that.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

La Parka said:


> Primetime and a world title match?
> 
> Ooooof. Y’all can’t tell me CM Punk defending his world title at 7 on a Friday couldn’t do better than that.


*They have NO excuses. Since last fall, we were told the time slot was the reason for bad viewership. They've been hyping up a WORLD TITLE MATCH IN PRIME TIME for a week and a half just for it to belly flop right back to catastrophicly low ratings.*


----------



## .christopher.

Looks like Page is living up to my expectations as world champion. Basically, utter shite.


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> Looks like Page is living up to my expectations as world champion. Basically, utter shite.


Sure, Adam Page consistently puts on awesome bangers for his world title defenses, and his quarterly segments with Adam Cole on Dynamite are regularly among the highest compared to the other quarters; but sure, let's go with the last part.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *@LifeInCattleClass EASTER IS OVER!! COME OUT AND PLAY!!! 😃
> View attachment 120876
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516146026238914565*


lolz, maybe tomoz


----------



## La Parka

DammitChrist said:


> Sure, Adam Page consistently puts on awesome bangers for his world title defenses, and his quarterly segments with Adam Cole on Dynamite are regularly among the highest compared to the other quarters; but sure, let's go with the last part.


If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?


----------



## Dr. Middy

Well that blows.

It does make me wonder if throwing Rampage around at all different times hurts it. Sometimes its on at 11, then normally at 10, then randomly 3 hours earlier at 7. That's can't do anything good for the show as a whole.


----------



## DammitChrist

Dr. Middy said:


> Well that blows.
> 
> *It does make me wonder if throwing Rampage around at all different times hurts it.* Sometimes its on at 11, then normally at 10, then randomly 3 hours earlier at 7. That's can't do anything good for the show as a whole.


Yep, that's exactly what's screwing them over with the ratings for Rampage.

A permanent time slot for Rampage at 7 PM EST in the first place (since last August) guarantees them a way higher number.

It's obvious that ratings tend to fluctuate big time for a couple of weeks whenever Rampage changes time slots for 1 week, and then the show returns to their regular schedule for the following week.

I don't see how this is anything to gloat about here.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Bad number considering what was on the card. Should have hyped the world title match far more than they did on Dynamite. Really emphasize the violence and animosity etc etc.

One hour wrestling shows are my favourite format, but I do wonder if it's considered skippable by the average fan in 2022. Who knows....well it's not a wrestling companies favourite format since they make more money with 2-3 hours.


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

What was the number last time they were in that time slot?


----------



## Dr. Middy

Jeru The Damaja said:


> What was the number last time they were in that time slot?











AEW Rampage 3/11/22 ratings stay steady, ranks number 22 on cable


The live viewership numbers for AEW Rampage are in as the show dip in total viewership, but stayed the same in the 18-49 demographic. Rampage drew 526,000




wrestlingnews.co





526K, but it also didn't have a world title match on it like this one did.


----------



## TD Stinger

I think if this shows anything its that the 7:00 time slot isn’t going to be an improvement over the 10:00 slot on Fridays.


----------



## NascarStan

I forgot Rampage stated early and missed the first 15 minutes of the show

Reckon others did as well


----------



## DammitChrist

NascarStan said:


> I forgot Rampage stated early and missed the first 15 minutes of the show
> 
> Reckon others did as well


Yep, there’s at least 2 other folks I regularly chat/react with that were either late to tune in, or completely forgot about the time change since he thought Rampage aired at 10 PM EST.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Dr. Middy said:


> AEW Rampage 3/11/22 ratings stay steady, ranks number 22 on cable
> 
> 
> The live viewership numbers for AEW Rampage are in as the show dip in total viewership, but stayed the same in the 18-49 demographic. Rampage drew 526,000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wrestlingnews.co
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 526K, but it also didn't have a world title match on it like this one did.


Interesting. Here's both cards.

March 11th, 2022

Singles Match
Darby Allin (w/Sting) defeats Marq Quen (w/Isiah Kassidy) (11:55)

Singles Match
Jamie Hayter (w/Dr. Britt Baker DMD & Rebel) defeats Mercedes Martinez (8:42)

Singles Match
Keith Lee defeats QT Marshall (w/Aaron Solo & Nick Comoroto) (4:05)

Singles Match
Swerve Strickland defeats Tony Nese (12:58)
----------------------

April 15th, 2022

Six Man Tag Team Match
Blackpool Combat Club (Bryan Danielson, Jon Moxley & Wheeler Yuta) defeat The Gunn Club (Austin Gunn, Billy Gunn & Colten Gunn) (9:06)

Singles Match
The Butcher defeats Barrett Brown (0:55)

Owen Hart Foundation Women's Tournament Qualifying Match
Ruby Soho defeats Robyn Renegade (8:22)

AEW World Title Texas Death Match
Adam Page (c) defeats Adam Cole (20:06)

Looks like the move is for QT Marshall to beat Page for the belt on Dynamite.


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, there’s at least 2 other folks I regularly chat/react with that were either late to tune in, or completely forgot about the time change since he thought Rampage aired at 10 PM EST.


If they forgot or were late to tune in, that'd make them, (gasp) *casual fans*. Best you cut them out of your wrestling discussion and treat them as beneath you


----------



## DammitChrist

CovidFan said:


> If they forgot or were late to tune in, that'd make them, (gasp) *casual fans*. Best you cut them out of your wrestling discussion and treat them as beneath you


Yea, man; you’re probably right


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

TD Stinger said:


> I think if this shows anything its that the 7:00 time slot isn’t going to be an improvement over the 10:00 slot on Fridays.


*The time slot was never the issue. We saw 700K+ tuning in after Punk's return. The show just sucks and there's nothing "must watch" about it.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Nah, Rampage from last Friday was honestly a pretty fun show, and most of the folks who watched live enjoyed watching the event at a much earlier time.


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage finished ninth on cable, which is way higher than I expected when I saw the 0.22 number. NBA ate into everyone's viewership, including Smackdown.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Ruthless Tony aint working, time to announce Attitude Tony!


----------



## DaSlacker

Fearless Viper said:


> Ruthless Tony aint working, time to announce Attitude Tony!


And when that fails he should spend more time at Pizza Hut and become Fat Tony


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

Dr. Middy said:


> AEW Rampage 3/11/22 ratings stay steady, ranks number 22 on cable
> 
> 
> The live viewership numbers for AEW Rampage are in as the show dip in total viewership, but stayed the same in the 18-49 demographic. Rampage drew 526,000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wrestlingnews.co
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 526K, but it also didn't have a world title match on it like this one did.


I'm pretty sure this is wrong.

11th March 2022 show was definitely a normal 10pm timeslot.

I think the last time they were 7pm was 18th Feb?


----------



## bdon

Gn1212 said:


> See which people get the most views on YouTube.


Not the point of the ratings thread. They lost live viewers. Period.


----------



## Gn1212

bdon said:


> Not the point of the ratings thread. They lost live viewers. Period.


Well, if you read my post you would see I linked the YouTube views there.


----------



## Gn1212

As others mentioned, I think stable 7pm slot would serve them better overall. Rampage timeslot has been all over the place recently it's just hard to keep track of it.

I wonder how Battle of the Belts fairs.


----------



## Irish Jet

What an absolute disaster this world title feud has been. The least credible champion vs the least credible challenger in recent history. 

It's a problem at every level of the company too. Even with the inflated amount of belts they just so often have lesser players as their champions. The dinosaur dickheads aren't in the top 5 tag teams on the show, Scorpio Sky isn't even the best talent in his stable, they presented Adam Page as their world champion with CM Punk/MJF feuding, with multiple time Wrestlemania main eventer Danielson on board. It's a joke - No one could ever take him seriously as the top guy and it's showed time and again. He's actively harming the prestige of the belt with every passing week of what feels like a WCW Cruiserweight feud. 

Khan doesn't get in and he never will. You hear so often about the loyalty of AEW fans and here they are getting 480,000 viewers for a world title Texas Deathmatch. Embarrassing.


----------



## bdon

Gn1212 said:


> Well, if you read my post you would see I linked the YouTube views there.


If you want to claim someone is this massive draw “by some margin” in a ratings thread, then the goddamn least they should be able to do is maintain the amount of viewers in their segments.

They kept losing viewers until they found the bottom…right along with the rest of the card.


----------



## Jaxon

awful number for the match they promoted, how do people 'forget' it was on if they promoted on Dynamite as an earlier show?


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516419959567667220

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Like Rampage, BotB cracked the top ten.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*GOOD MORNING EVERYONE! Let's talk about how the women's championship match outdrew a world title deathmatch with much less hype.*


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

That number is a miracle considering the card that was put out.

They should probably do away with Battle of Belt events (Unless they're getting some major wedge for them). 

The cards are never particular gripping and are merely used as a title feud filler, probably best served for using their Dynamite specials for.


----------



## Saintpat

I lol a little bit when I see people saying it’s not too much of an ask for viewers to do homework by watching YouTube videos and googling to understand who some of the characters are (like Danhausen) … but then say ‘well it’s understandable that hardcore fans can’t remember when the show comes on — who can keep up with that?’

They shouted the time change for a few weeks and advertised it. (Plus that’s also something you can google.)


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Jeru The Damaja said:


> That number is a miracle considering the card that was put out.
> 
> They should probably do away with Battle of Belt events (Unless they're getting some major wedge for them).
> 
> The cards are never particular gripping and are merely used as a title feud filler, probably best served for using their Dynamite specials for.


If they're making money from them it'd be pretty foolish to willingly give them up to he honest.

I'm not sure how their deals work though.


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

GNKenny said:


> If they're making money from them it'd be pretty foolish to willingly give them up to he honest.
> 
> I'm not sure how their deals work though.


The hour and not being live just handicaps them in the situation.

The first Battle of the Belts was built up with the premise of all world champions being involved on the poster. Instead, we got a mid card title, the women's title and a gimmick title defended. To it's credit, it did a decent number for Saturday wrestling.

But then it get's pretty much less build second time round, it's not even provided live and the card is arguably even worse than it was previously. I am honestly surprised it did as well as it did. Not quite as good of a demo as Rampage, but more eyes on it.

If we're finding any positives, it's the fact that they can put the filler title feuds on it. If Nyla Rose had to be in the women's title picture, at least it was a throw away Saturday event and not built towards a PPV for example.

But BOTB gets negative buys from me. I haven't even watched the show and probably won't. Zero interest in any of the feuds involved, rubbish build for it. I'll stick to just watching Dynamite.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*@LifeInCattleClass have you run out of vacation days yet? 😆*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *@LifeInCattleClass have you run out of vacation days yet? 😆*


lolll - ok babycakes

what do you need from me?

I'm here for you


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lolll - ok babycakes
> 
> what do you need from me?
> 
> I'm here for you


*The third biggest draw in the women's division just annihilated Hangman's title defense with Nyla Rose. I need your thoughts! 







*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *The third biggest draw in the women's division just annihilated Hangman's title defense with Nyla Rose. I need your thoughts!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


DAMMIT!!! I used to love Hangman and Hate Women's wrestling!!

BUT NOW, after all this new evidence came to light, I cannot help but STAN Thunder, Nyla and by proxy all the women and hate on Cole.... and yes.... Hangman too!

those low drawing bitches (the men, obvs) have ruined my enjoyment of AEW forever and from now, the women has to main event AT LEAST 99min of EACH DYNAMITE!!

PEER PRESSURE FTW!


----------



## DammitChrist

It's almost like the ratings for the Friday shows fluctuates/struggles more since the time slots on those nights change frequently over the past year whereas the Saturday shows generally don't have its time slots change nearly as often (so their ratings don't fluctuate nearly as much as the Friday events).


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

SD's ratings were down too. NBA hit everyone.

They should have emphasised the world championship match more. It should have felt way more important than it did seeing as it was the (likely) end of a feud.

Both things can be true, brahs.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> DAMMIT!!! I used to love Hangman and Hate Women's wrestling!!
> 
> BUT NOW, after all this new evidence came to light, I cannot help but STAN Thunder, Nyla and by proxy all the women and hate on Cole.... and yes.... Hangman too!
> 
> those low drawing bitches (the men, obvs) have ruined my enjoyment of AEW forever and from now, the women has to main event AT LEAST 99min of EACH DYNAMITE!!
> 
> PEER PRESSURE FTW!


*I'm glad we could come to this sensible conclusion! This is why we get along so well!







*


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516497359244562444

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Ruby is still a channel changer.*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516497359244562444


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Ruby is still a channel changer.*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516497359244562444


_ahem_

uhmmmm... There something you want to talk about on those quarterlies?


----------



## 3venflow

Hangman vs. Cole went up against the NBA game, which started at 7:41pm, so that's quite impressive within the context of the show. I imagine that QH would have topped a million viewers on Dynamite.

Looking at the big drop in RAW ratings too, I think Dynamite will be down this week. NBA playoffs hurts everyone's numbers.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Here's an update on AEW's GROWTH!!!

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516806484063145991
PPV buys are up, but their ratings, after two dozen signings, are worse than when Britt Baker was carrying the company last summer. See Q3.*


----------



## Gn1212




----------



## DammitChrist

Yep, Britt Baker with like 5-7 minutes of average TV time saved the ratings for all of summer 2021 somehow.

It’s not like Kenny Omega, Adam Page, Malakai Black, Cody Rhodes, and the Young Bucks were also there to help support the good quality of the product or anything.


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

So what we're seeing here is a steady incremental growth which is obviously great but impatient fans confuse "growth" with "cultural phenomenon type explosion" which isn't going to be happening with AEW.

You can definitely see the uptick from when Punk came in. The PPV buyrates and YouTube hits are up significantly.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Jeru The Damaja said:


> So what we're seeing here is a steady incremental growth which is obviously great but impatient fans confuse "growth" with "cultural phenomenon type explosion" which isn't going to be happening with AEW.
> 
> You can definitely see the uptick from when Punk came in. The PPV buyrates and YouTube hits are up significantly.


*Yet ratings are down from last summer. No one except Tony Khan and Chris Jericho expected a new wrestling boom, but it's embarrassing for them to lose viewership after over 20 signings.*


----------



## Gn1212

Yeah, kind of settles the argument really. AEW is growing, it was obvious before but now there's proof.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Yet ratings are down from last summer. No one except Tony Khan and Chris Jericho expected a new wrestling boom, but it's embarrassing for them to lose viewership after over 20 signings.*


time to get Janela and Marko back on tv


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Gn1212 said:


> Yeah, kind of settles the argument really. AEW is growing, it was obvious before but now there's proof.


*How are they "growing" with less TV viewership after two dozen signings? I'm not sure why this is constantly being ignored.*


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

The Legit Lioness said:


> *How are they "growing" with less TV viewership after two dozen signings? I'm not sure why this is constantly being ignored.*


I don't really understand this bizness shit. The extent of what I know about the television business comes from wrestling discussion.  Also being obsessed with WCW and over thinking the stuff they did too much.

Just from what I can see with my own two, uneducated eyes.....I can see the argument they're growing. Ticket sales, general expose, merchandise blah blah blah. On the other hand I'm kinda saying the same thing....they've greatly increased their spending and getting the same ratings as when people like Jimmy Havoc, Marko Stunt, Big Swole etc were featured. You don't have to see concrete numbers to know that Danielson and Punk ain't coming cheap.

Now there's more to ratings, sure....WCW was doing their best business in January 1999 yet all Bischoff cared about was arbitrary shit like ratings. That was a company that should have done a hardline left turn and started focusing on the important things.

Ultimately I don't really see AEW's ratings changing any time soon unless they catch fire with something or go full insane mode like WCW did. So all that rambling was for nothing I guess. AEW's ratings are fine....I think so anyways. 

I know people here don't seem to want to hear it, but they need to find their guy and role with it. It's not even a "WWE thing" like I've seen some people claim....Memphis was Jerry Lawler territory, Mid-South was Junkyard Dog, JCP had Ric Flair etc etc. It's just a wrestling thing. Elsewise you have a bunch of guys in this weird gray zone like TNA did. They never elevated someone as "the guy" just like AEW is doing right now.

They had something with Darby Allin when he was TNT Champion but he doesn't seem to have that same momentum. Cody was the closest thing they had to "the guy" for better or worse.


----------



## DammitChrist

Tonight's Dynamite episode was pretty damn good tonight, which pretty much means that the ratings may dip this week because logic makes no sense.


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

Gn1212 said:


> Yeah, kind of settles the argument really. AEW is growing, it was obvious before but now there's proof.


They have Punk, Bryan, Jeff Hardy and Adam Cole, no longer have to compete head-to-head with NXT and have the huge Big Bang Theory lead-in but haven't grown their audience tho.


----------



## 3venflow

DammitChrist said:


> Tonight's Dynamite episode was pretty damn good tonight, which pretty much means that the ratings may dip this week because logic makes no sense.


The rating will drop like RAW and Smackdown because NBA is eating up everything right now. Look at the effect the 10pm game had on RAW's third hour:










I do think it could finish only behind NBA though like it has several times recently, but the million-or-bust doomsayers will have their usual hot-takes I'm sure. 😂


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517143114217000973

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

The Legit Lioness said:


> *GOOD MORNING EVERYONE! Let's talk about how the women's championship match outdrew a world title deathmatch with much less hype.*


Sorry to break this to you but nope lol

Thunder Rosa/Nyla Rose=505(230 Demo)
Page/Cole=515(303 Demo)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Aedubya

.95 guess for last night's Dynamite


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Sorry to break this to you but nope lol
> 
> Thunder Rosa/Nyla Rose=505(230 Demo)
> Page/Cole=515(303 Demo)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*I'll just act like this never happened like they do 😆*


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 930,000
18-49: 0.37

Viewership down from last week as expected with the NBA, but the demo stayed the same.

Dynamite was #4 on cable behind only NBA.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Dr. Pimple Popper???


----------



## RainmakerV2

Honestly not terrible considering the NBA and that show.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*THE ANNOUNCEMENT is no longer a draw.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517236840293703685*


----------



## ProjectGargano

The Legit Lioness said:


> *THE ANNOUNCEMENT is no longer a draw.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517236840293703685*


What about Niklita Lions?


----------



## RapShepard

Jericho, Mox, Punk, and Bryan came together to show that drawing power


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Jericho, Mox, Punk, and Bryan came together to show that drawing power


*To do 150,000 less viewers than Britt Baker 's "Reign of Terror."*


----------



## Sad Panda

the 7:09 game was Nets-C’s..shit, even I was watching that and saved AEW for the DVR.


----------



## D Z

The same date last year they did 1.1 mil. That's down 20% yoy. 

Some of the remaining ex western NJPW fans already were watching AEW so no boost should had been expected. 

Time to put their top belt on someone else.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *THE ANNOUNCEMENT is no longer a draw.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517236840293703685*


or is it?

might’ve been 750 without it

papa khan wins again!


----------



## Martyn

D Z said:


> The same date last year they did 1.1 mil. That's down 20% yoy.
> 
> Some of the remaining ex western NJPW fans already were watching AEW so no boost should had been expected.
> 
> Time to put their top belt on someone else.


Were they going against NBA last year as well? What’s the decline of cable within that time period?

Just curious, as numbers like that shouldn’t really been compared without greater context.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Not even Tiny hyping up an announcement for over a week will put eyes on the product as easily anymore.


----------



## 3venflow

Martyn" said:


> Were they going against NBA last year as well? What’s the decline of cable within that time period?
> 
> Just curious, as numbers like that shouldn’t really been compared without greater context.


No, their main competition was Challenge this time last year. They did the same demo share this year with far tougher competition so they will be very happy.










As for your cable question, a lot more people have cut the cord in the past year but I don't have the total number.

_At the end of Q3, the top pay TV providers had lost around 5.1 million subscribers year-over-year, Leichtman Research Group estimates._









2021 was a post-cable year


A look back at the year of pay TV and streaming.




www.protocol.com


----------



## omaroo

Oh no the end is nigh


----------



## D Z

Lots of cope.


----------



## Gn1212

3venflow said:


> No, their main competition was Challenge this time last year. They did the same demo share this year with far tougher competition so they will be very happy.
> 
> View attachment 121081
> 
> 
> As for your cable question, a lot more people have cut the cord in the past year but I don't have the total number.
> 
> _At the end of Q3, the top pay TV providers had lost around 5.1 million subscribers year-over-year, Leichtman Research Group estimates._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2021 was a post-cable year
> 
> 
> A look back at the year of pay TV and streaming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.protocol.com


Fatality!


----------



## Chan Hung

NathanMayberry said:


> Not even Tiny hyping up an announcement for over a week will put eyes on the product as easily anymore.


To be fair, his hype lately > the actual reveal LOL


----------



## Fearless Viper

No.4 not bad with the competition.


----------



## Geeee

Not today Dr. Pimple Popper!


----------



## DaSlacker

Thought it would be 100,000 viewers worse tbf. NBA, The Masked Singer, Survivor, Chicago Fire is strong competition.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

ADAM COLE'S FOREHEAD JUST GOT BIGGER FOLKS


----------



## KrysRaw1

And the ratings keep falling LOL it's no coincidence that after announcing Ring of Honor they pretty much are banking on unknown company which is now causing them to tank and ratings including another disappointing lame announcement with the New Japan and I just want to say they are a new company why are they trying to promote a bunch of interactions with other companies when they barely are having issues promoting their own company and getting them promoted on TV LOL what a backwards company


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## DammitChrist

KrysRaw1 said:


> And the ratings keep falling LOL it's no coincidence that after announcing Ring of Honor they pretty much are banking on unknown company which is now causing them to tank and ratings including another disappointing lame announcement with the New Japan and I just want to say they are a new company why are they trying to promote a bunch of interactions with other companies when they barely are having issues promoting their own company and getting them promoted on TV LOL what a backwards company


The rest of the wide wrestling audience who are hyped about the supershow says otherwise. There’s certainly no disappointment from everyone else.


----------



## Fearless Viper

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517277146070151169


----------



## NathanMayberry

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> ADAM COLE'S FOREHEAD JUST GOT BIGGER FOLKS


ohh shit scjerk is expanding


----------



## NathanMayberry

DammitChrist said:


> The rest of the wide wrestling audience who are hyped about the supershow says otherwise. There’s certainly no disappointment from everyone else.


Are they tho?

Why aren't they doing it in a stadium like the WWE is doing for like 7 of its shows? This is a MAJOR announcement after all.


----------



## RainmakerV2

NathanMayberry said:


> ohh shit scjerk is expanding


....



We're here.











Goofys.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

NathanMayberry said:


> ohh shit scjerk is expanding


??

We're mainstream friend.


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> ??
> 
> We're mainstream friend.


Ahyessir ☝


----------



## Kishido

They haven't lost as much as RAW. So good numbers 




/s


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517535679680589826

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sad Panda

People tuned in for Hooks debut on Dynamite


----------



## 3venflow

The sharp drop near the end is similar to what happened with RAW which dropped to under 1.4m for Cody vs. Owens. The second NBA playoff game started at 9:49pm (11 minutes before Dynamite ended), so you can see there how NBA drains viewers from wrestling quickly and ruthlessly.

Other than that, the noteworthy things are the rare Q1 to Q2 rise and an eye-catching upturn for HOOK's QH.


----------



## Not Lying

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517535679680589826
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My takes:

1- Andrade can fuck off now. Get him a Zelina or I am not sold.
2- Jungle Boy/KOR had no business being at 9pm
3- Tay Conti/Sammy with another bump, they are annoying af but they get ratings. There was Hook too but he had no effect on Rampage ratings so I don't attribute anything to him here.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

A rare bad starting quarter, and it being a Punk match makes it even weirder. Happens though. At least second quarter went up, which is something.

HOOK doing his thing! Actually is really good he gained and nearly got back to beginning of show levels. It’s not huge or anything but it is a positive sign that he’s working. Big drop for Baker return, and the Darby/Andrade match didn’t recover.

Overall down a good chunk year over year on viewership, which isn’t good. Next week hopefully they can be up, since last year was only 889k for 4/21 show. If they can at least maintain viewership and rise the following week they’ll be on the right side of things.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Great boost for Hook, bad luck for Britt. *


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Great boost for Hook, bad luck for Britt. *


There was 2 Ad breaks in Q7. Has been happening more often recently.

Toni's debut vs Bunny had 2 had breaks too in their Quarter but Tony Khan had they had over 1m for their time given.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> There was 2 Ad breaks in Q7. Has been happening more often recently.
> 
> Toni's debut vs Bunny had 2 had breaks too in their Quarter but Tony Khan had they had over 1m for their time given.


*Putting the women in the death slot with ads doesn't help, but I think this had more to do with the playoff game since the audience didn't come back for Darby vs. Andrade. I went to watch the game after Britt's promo and just waited for the finish on Twitter. Hopefully Andrade is a YouTube mainstay now.*


----------



## fabi1982

#BadNewsSanta said:


> A rare bad starting quarter, and it being a Punk match makes it even weirder. Happens though. At least second quarter went up, which is something.
> 
> HOOK doing his thing! Actually is really good he gained and nearly got back to beginning of show levels. It’s not huge or anything but it is a positive sign that he’s working. Big drop for Baker return, and the Darby/Andrade match didn’t recover.
> 
> Overall down a good chunk year over year on viewership, which isn’t good. Next week hopefully they can be up, since last year was only 889k for 4/21 show. If they can at least maintain viewership and rise the following week they’ll be on the right side of things.


Probably no TBBT rerun before Dynamite.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517535679680589826
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sammy / Tay outdrawing Baker - how does that make you feel @The Legit Lioness ?

sammy / tay is a ‘casual viewer’ program - must make you feel good, right?


----------



## RainmakerV2

Big bang let em down this week.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

They keep losing viewers. Maybe they should stop doing a billion announcements, hyping you boring wrestling like ROH and NJPW and cut out the lame comedy


----------



## The real Axel

Another L for the dubbalos. Maybe try another announcement?


----------



## Mister Sinister

1. Cold match opener that was vaguely a reference to all the attention for Cody going to WWE. It reminds us that there are no stories here but for MJF/Wardlow, and they are doing nothing with Dustin.
2. The opener as usual drags out too long. The first quarter hour of this show should have a variety of short segments. You want to try to put out as many hooks as possible (if you don't have a big hook like in the 90s). You can fit in a backstage segment, intro from commentary, a women's match and a cruiser match in the first 20 minutes. They are failing to tease out the narrative or reference what happened the week before. This means they aren't selling this product to casuals that tune in and don't know wtf is going on.
3. Wardlow is in the wrong spot on the card. This is the most fleshed out story on the card. It should be the main event.
4. Hook and Wardlow are two of the only acts they allow to be dominant, and they magically draw.
5. I feel we are building to Punk winning the world title, and then seeing Punk vs Wardlow 2. The question is, do you just put Wardlow over or do you tease this out more with a screwball finish that makes us want to see Wardlow as champion even harder.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mister Sinister said:


> 1. Cold match opener that was vaguely a reference to all the attention for Cody going to WWE. It reminds us that there are no stories here but for MJF/Wardlow, and they are doing nothing with Dustin.
> 2. The opener as usual drags out too long. *The first quarter hour of this show should have a variety of short segments. You want to try to put out as many hooks as possible (if you don't have a big hook like in the 90s). You can fit in a backstage segment, intro from commentary, a women's match and a cruiser match in the first 20 minutes.* They are failing to tease out the narrative or reference what happened the week before. This means they aren't selling this product to casuals that tune in and don't know wtf is going on.
> 3. Wardlow is in the wrong spot on the card. This is the most fleshed out story on the card. It should be the main event.
> 4. Hook and Wardlow are two of the only acts they allow to be dominant, and they magically draw.
> 5. I feel we are building to Punk winning the world title, and then seeing Punk vs Wardlow 2. The question is, do you just put Wardlow over or do you tease this out more with a screwball finish that makes us want to see Wardlow as champion even harder.


 No thanks to the idea of dramatically shortening matches within a quick period of time. That gets no buys from me.


----------



## 3venflow

Per WrestleTix, a number of shows like Detroit and L.A. have had new seats opened behind the stage. This could suggest AEW will debut a new or modified stage some time this year as the only time they've really opened seats that far back was for Grand Slam last year and they were more elevated seats.

The altered setup now pushes the L.A. capacity past 14,000 with 13,156 sold so far. Detroit has sold 9,074 tickets with the capacity now up to 12,260. June is going to be a HUGE month for AEW with those TV shows and Forbidden Door at the United Center.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

3venflow said:


> Per WrestleTix, a number of shows like Detroit and L.A. have had new seats opened behind the stage. This could suggest AEW will debut a new or modified stage some time this year as the only time they've really opened seats that far back was for Grand Slam last year and they were more elevated seats.
> 
> The altered setup now pushes the L.A. capacity past 14,000 with 13,156 sold so far. Detroit has solld 9,074 tickets with the capacity now up to 12,260. June is going to be a HUGE month for AEW with those TV shows and Forbidden Door at the United Center.


Damn I was on my way to post and talk about that. I hope they update the stage personally.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517847960872181761


----------



## Prized Fighter

3venflow said:


> Per WrestleTix, a number of shows like Detroit and L.A. have had new seats opened behind the stage. This could suggest AEW will debut a new or modified stage some time this year as the only time they've really opened seats that far back was for Grand Slam last year and they were more elevated seats.
> 
> The altered setup now pushes the L.A. capacity past 14,000 with 13,156 sold so far. Detroit has sold 9,074 tickets with the capacity now up to 12,260. June is going to be a HUGE month for AEW with those TV shows and Forbidden Door at the United Center.


That is really interesting. LCA is a traditional bowl set up and those seats behind the stage won't be very elevated. My buddy sent me pictures from when WWE was there and the stage basically took up a quarter of the venue. From the WrestleTix graphic, they aren't even using the highest seats behind the stage. I think they will still get 10,500+ for this show. This is also the first Dynamite after Forbidden Door, so there could be some good fallout from that.


----------



## Mister Sinister

DammitChrist said:


> No thanks to the idea of dramatically shortening matches within a quick period of time. That gets no buys from me.


PPV length matches belong on PPV. It's also the first match. It's not the main event. If every match is long, the main event is less special, there is a loss of variety, there is difficulty getting all the stars on tv every week, there is less room for broader representation, there is less energy, the pacing gets f'd up to satisfy hardcore fans that don't care about expanding the audience, it eats up time to develop story (so it becomes a series of cold matches) and it eats up time for multiple segments promoting the actual main event.

There is a difference between putting on a fantasy 5-star wrestlefest and putting together well paced, interesting television with a continuing narrative from week to week and a clear star.


----------



## DammitChrist

Nah, I'm perfectly happy with what we've been getting instead lately.

The unreliable 'casuals' can stay on the sidelines.


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, I'm perfectly happy with what we've been getting instead lately.


Sure you are. But I on the other hand start looking at the clock and question why the fuck some star is wrestling an up and comer for over 10 minutes. It's just a complete waste of time in _some_ matches.

AEW should obviously cater more to casuals because hardcore fans such as yourself will lap up whatever's put in front of them because it's AEW endorsed with your favorite wrestlers. You aren't leaving even if it radically changes.

Don't be so scared of change, DC. Maybe you'd like it


----------



## Randy Lahey

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517535679680589826
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Great job Hook!

Even Britt Baker tanks the ratings in her hometown. AEW demo speaks clearly every week. Don’t care about womens wrestling


----------



## 3venflow

6,000 fans and 5,800 paid for Dynamite/Rampage last week.

The upcoming show in Philly is at 5,800+ and I think it could pass 6,000.

And the June 3rd Rampage in Cali has just about sold out with 7,300+ tickets sold.


----------



## NascarStan

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, I'm perfectly happy with what we've been getting instead lately.
> 
> The unreliable 'casuals' can stay on the sidelines.


Keep saying that when Papa Shad sees the financials of this company and takes away Cocaine's money


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage

Viewers*: 518,000
*18-49*: 0.19

This is up in viewers and down in key demo from last week's show (482k/0.22) which had the world title match, but aired in a different timeslot. This week's finished 14th on cable.

The NBA playoffs again dominated, also affecting Smackdown which did 1.95m/0.47 on network.


----------



## Geert Wilders

NascarStan said:


> Keep saying that when Papa Shad sees the financials of this company and takes away Cocaine's money


Have you seen the financials?

as much as I dislike the product, when people post these sorts of things, you can’t help but crack up.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Geert Wilders said:


> Have you seen the financials?
> 
> as much as I dislike the product, when people post these sorts of things, you can’t help but crack up.


They'd have to be operating at a loss, yeah they might do six figures in tickets a week but a guy like Jericho (Rumoured to make 6 million a year) would eat up thousands of seats in salary alone. Throw in Mox, Sting, The Bucks, Kenny, Christian, Punk, Danielson, Hardy, Samoa Joe etc and it'd be significant.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Chip Chipperson said:


> They'd have to be operating at a loss, yeah they might do six figures in tickets a week but a guy like Jericho (Rumoured to make 6 million a year) would eat up thousands of seats in salary alone. Throw in Mox, Sting, The Bucks, Kenny, Christian, Punk, Danielson, Hardy, Samoa Joe etc and it'd be significant.


It seems like speculation, which it is. They could be in the red. They could be in the black. Who knows apart from Tony, Shahid and their accountants?


----------



## 3venflow

Warner Bros. Discovery Cuts Scripted Programming Development at TBS, TNT (EXCLUSIVE)


UPDATED: TNT and TBS are pausing their scripted game under new parent company Warner Bros. Discovery, which CEO David Zaslav has promised will find $3 billion in cost savings across the new company…




variety.com





The Warner/Discovery bloodbath has hit TNT and TBS, with development of new scripted programs to be stopped. This could impact shows like American Dad although it isn't clear if existing programs will be affected or just new ones in future.

I don't believe AEW falls under this category (even though it's actually scripted) and is more live entertainment, hence it not being mentioned in the Variety article. AEW does have other Warner programs in development such as a Darby Allin reality thing, and I have no idea if that will be affected (it's likely already been developed and paid for, so probably not?).

I've never known a cable company to kill a top five show like Dynamite so unless they're breaking new ground, I assume they're safe. Even so, if there's a risk of any sort for AEW, TK would be wise to be shopping AEW as a top five program to other networks.

Punk is very prominent in Warner/Discover's new TNT is #1 on cable branding which could bode well for them. I wonder if, with shows being cut, there could be space opening for cheap content like ROH?


----------



## Geert Wilders

^it also says that it's the developed content. Since AEW is externally developed, I'd say they'll be safe for now. However they should start shopping now for a new channel. Too much upheaval and their contract is up soon. They not be so lucky when that contract comes up.


----------



## CriminalLeapord

Crazy to think Rampage doing a quarter of the viewers of Smackdown, considering how bad Smackdown is at the moment. They literally put on almost the same show and matches every week now.


----------



## DammitChrist

Yea, if the ratings were based on pure quality:

Dynamite would be the show going over 2.3 million viewers.

Raw would be going 1.9-2.0 million viewers.

Rampage would hang around 1.5 million viewers (due to the death slot limiting the show’s exposure).

NXT 2.0 would pretty much be settling where they’re at atm (around 550 K viewers).

Smackdown would be struggling at 400-450 K viewers instead here.

Instead, we got reality using backwards logic on us.


----------



## 3venflow

Brand value/longevity obviously. The reason why Cody went to RAW and more people watch him even though he's doing a copy and paste gig. If Reigns and Marko Stunt had swapped places, more people would have been watching Marko Stunt. Hell, you could swap the rosters completely and there wouldn't be any major shift in ratings. It's decades of habit and a brand that had two spells in which it was very mainstream (Golden Era, Attitude Era).

AEW has done well to do what it has done in a declining cable industry, but can't be expected to match the total viewers of WWE shows now or for a long time. If you look at younger viewers, it has been quite close at times with Dynamite having four or five wins over RAW in that metric.

WWE has a LOT of 50+ viewers compared to AEW which prop up their viewership. RAW's three hours averaged a 0.81 demo in the 50+ while Dynamite's did 0.34. Compare to the 18-49 key demo, which was 0.44 to 0.37 in RAW's favour but you can see how closer that is compared to 50+.


----------



## the_flock

3venflow said:


> If Reigns and Marko Stunt had swapped places, more people would have been watching Marko Stunt.


Possibly one of the worst takes I've seen on this forum.


----------



## 3venflow

^^^ So if Reigns and Stunt had swapped places in January, AEW would've gone to 2m viewers and Smackdown to 1m viewers all of a sudden? Hence my point (using the two extremes on purpose to prove the point), the importance of brand superceding the individual in this era. Saying the opposite, that the ratings would've 180'd for both companies, would be the worst take on this forum. When Reigns is off TV for a couple of weeks, does Smackdown lose a million viewers? No. There are fairly minute shifts either way.


----------



## Randy Lahey

CriminalLeapord said:


> Crazy to think Rampage doing a quarter of the viewers of Smackdown, considering how bad Smackdown is at the moment. They literally put on almost the same show and matches every week now.


Smackdown is on Fox and in prime time. You can’t compare a network show in prime time to a cable show on at 10pm


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519329017689686019

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

That was a solid start for Tomohiro Ishii vs Adam Cole


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519329017689686019
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*Is that BOTCH MACHINE Jade outdrawing top tier INDY WRASSLERS AGAIN?! I'M SO SHOCKED!!! 😱😱😱*


----------



## DammitChrist

It literally shows Adam Cole and Tomohiro Ishii topping her on that same episode.


----------



## La Parka

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, if the ratings were based on pure quality:
> 
> Dynamite would be the show going over 2.3 million viewers.
> 
> Raw would be going 1.9-2.0 million viewers.
> 
> Rampage would hang around 1.5 million viewers (due to the death slot limiting the show’s exposure).
> 
> NXT 2.0 would pretty much be settling where they’re at atm (around 550 K viewers).
> 
> Smackdown would be struggling at 400-450 K viewers instead here.
> 
> Instead, we got reality using backwards logic on us.


Pesky reality at it again.


----------



## the_flock

3venflow said:


> ^^^ So if Reigns and Stunt had swapped places in January, AEW would've gone to 2m viewers and Smackdown to 1m viewers all of a sudden? Hence my point (using the two extremes on purpose to prove the point), the importance of brand superceding the individual in this era. Saying the opposite, that the ratings would've 180'd for both companies, would be the worst take on this forum. When Reigns is off TV for a couple of weeks, does Smackdown lose a million viewers? No. There are fairly minute shifts either way.


That's not what you said mate. You clearly said if you swapped Roman Reigns with Marko Stunt, the ratings would stay the same. You didn't say that if Ran Reigns was off air for a few weeks and Brock Lesnar was in his place, ratings would stay the same.

Your equivalent is taking The Rock out of WWE and replacing him with Shark Boy from WCW.


----------



## 3venflow

the_flock said:


> That's not what you said mate. You clearly said if you swapped Roman Reigns with Marko Stunt, the ratings would stay the same.


I used two extreme examples to prove my point about brand superceding all in 2022. NOTHING is going to make AEW and WWE swap ratings in a blink of the eye. Even if WWE went out of business tomorrow, AEW would not automatically get 2.3 ratings. Hell, even when TV was healthier, not only did WWF/E not get WCW's viewers, they lost a big chunk of their own (5.8 average in 2000 vs. 4.64 average in 2001).

Roman Reigns jumping to AEW would not miraculously make WWE and AEW swap ratings, whether you swapped him with Marko Stunt, Joey Janela or Mr. Wrestling #123. And that was my exact point. Send Punk, Omega and Mox back to WWE, beyond a brief curiosity spike, there would be no massive boost in ratings in the long term. And send Reigns, McIntyre and Lashley to AEW, the same applies.

Lashley and McIntyre was an IMPACT main event in 2016 and did a TV rating of 126,000. But in WWE it has been a featured match on three PPVs, including Mania. Again, the brand matters.

How do you think ratings would change if the two wrestlers swapped places? Do you really think Reigns would cause a 1m spike in AEW's ratings when he's done no such thing for WWE?

This is a bad take: If Roman Reigns and Marko Stunt swapped promotions, AEW would draw 2.2m on cable and Smackdown on network TV would drop to 1m viewers.

(aka the opposite of what I said)



> Your equivalent is taking The Rock out of WWE and replacing him with Shark Boy from WCW.


No, The Rock was a legitimate needle-mover. If he had jumped to WCW in 2000, WCW's ratings would have gone up significantly especially considering the decline they had sustained compared to the peak nWo era. Needle-movers like that no longer exist at least within the context of TV ratings (merchandise, social media and other metrics is a different ball game, and that's where your Reigns' and Punks excel).

Traditional TV is declining year on year which is why someone like Jinder Mahal technically drew bigger ratings than Roman as champion many weeks (because every year, hell every MONTH, fewer people watch traditional TV).


----------



## CovidFan

3venflow said:


> I used two extreme examples to prove my point about brand superceding all in 2022. <snip>


Your post (which I agree with) kind of makes everything said itt and other AEW ratings threads kinda moot so this should be locked because it's not actually that interesting and we all agree to revisit ratings discussions every 6 months.


----------



## Prosper

CovidFan said:


> Your post (which I agree with) kind of makes everything said itt and other AEW ratings threads kinda moot so this should be locked because it's not actually that interesting and we all agree to revisit ratings discussions every 6 months.


Its nice speaking about ratings if there is context to the arguments or points people make (which most fail to do), so for that reason I wouldn't say the thread is meaningless. The QH spikes and drops from the live cable audience can be interesting too, but of course those people are only a segment of the overall audience. I like being updated on PPV buy rates and stadium capacities as well, all of it is interesting to me especially as a Digital Marketer IRL. But I'm done with all the back and forth arguing with people who choose to remain ignorant.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 921,000
18-49: 0.33

Viewership: Much of muchness
Key demo: Down significantly and closer to 2020 levels

Even so, it was enough to get them #4 on cable with NBA again eating into numbers. A Turner top four:


----------



## RainmakerV2

Thats not a good number considering there was only one playoff game and it was a blowout the whole way.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Wow, thought it'd be a bit higher only going up against one NBA Playoff game.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Showstopper said:


> Wow, thought it'd be a bit higher only going up against one NBA Playoff game.



Guevara has consistently done shit numbers. Should have seen this coming tbh.


----------



## RapShepard

They have too much talent to be on an under a million run. Good spot chart wise though


----------



## Saintpat

Demo loves shooty-hoops.


----------



## ThirdMan

It'll be interesting to see if all the wrestling shows go up a bit in ratings once the first two rounds of the NBA playoffs are over, and a number of major-market basketball fans aren't watching the playoffs anymore.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 921,000
> 18-49: 0.33
> 
> Viewership: Much of muchness
> Key demo: Down significantly and closer to 2020 levels
> 
> Even so, it was enough to get them #4 on cable with NBA again eating into numbers. A Turner top four:
> 
> View attachment 121484


Qs will be interesting

i think they did better when they had the ‘car crash’ match as match 1 of the night last year - just as a lead-in to the chaos


----------



## NathanMayberry

This is what now? The third week where we’ve seen a massive YOY decline? 

Random wrestling matches with no build don’t draw… too bad fan boys and sycophants will keep calling this quality booking so tiny won’t change a thing.. 


So the real question we should be asking is how many weeks until Dynamite reaches the 800s?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## .christopher.

People defended the decision to make a jabroni a champion. People defended the decisions to have Bryan and Punk devalue themselves by facing jobbers every week.

Well, this is what you get.


----------



## Jbardo37

First things first, it’s time to get the title on CM Punk at the PPV, they also need to cut down on the jobbers getting air time.


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Qs will be interesting


Thurston says a steep demo decline from start to finish. No idea if this is NBA related but it's not common for AEW's demo rankings to drop like that, it usually ebbs and flows.

Dynamite finishing 4th is still great, for those who don't understand it means they beat thousands of other shows and were only behind NBA. Perspective is important, but will always be lacking on here for obvious reasons.

They also beat 9 of the 15 primetime shows on free/network TV and tied with another (Goldbergs).

NBA on cable beat everything on network, with the top rated show on network being Survivor.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Thurston says a steep demo decline from start to finish. No idea if this is NBA related but it's not common for AEW's demo rankings to drop like that, it usually ebbs and flows.
> 
> Dynamite finishing 4th is still great, for those who don't understand it means they beat thousands of other shows and were only behind NBA. Perspective is important, but will always be lacking on here for obvious reasons.
> 
> They also beat 9 of the 15 primetime shows on free/network TV and tied with another (Goldbergs).
> 
> NBA on cable beat everything on network, with the top rated show on network being Survivor.


continuous demo decline tells me viewers were not staying for Sammy / Sky

when FTR came in first, the must-see of the night was over and done

which brings be back to almost my one and only TK booking complaint - main events in the first segment

i hate it


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> Thurston says a steep demo decline from start to finish. No idea if this is NBA related but it's not common for AEW's demo rankings to drop like that, it usually ebbs and flows.
> 
> Dynamite finishing 4th is still great, for those who don't understand it means they beat thousands of other shows and were only behind NBA. Perspective is important, but will always be lacking on here for obvious reasons.
> 
> They also beat 9 of the 15 primetime shows on free/network TV and tied with another (Goldbergs).
> 
> NBA on cable beat everything on network, with the top rated show on network being Survivor.



Shouldn't be NBA related. There was only one game that started at 7:30 and it was never close.


----------



## La Parka

Didn't Raw go up against a college basketball championship game and do one of their best numbers? 

I'm not sure basketball fans are exactly knocking down the doors to see wrestling these days.


----------



## 3venflow

RainmakerV2 said:


> Shouldn't be NBA related. There was only one game that started at 7:30 and it was never close.


Bulls/Bucks game still did a big rating compared to what is usually on opposite Dynamite when there are no NBA playoffs. Should also be brought up what is AEW's best market in the TV ratings: Chicago.

Bulls/Bucks charted higher than anything on network TV and it wasn't even close. This time last year, AEW's main competition was The Challenge on MTV.


----------



## fabi1982

So where is the guy posting yoy up until the time that there was no competition with NXT anymore? Really interested how the last couple Dynamites did compared to last year?


----------



## omaroo

Eh what's new same old ratings.

It's the norm which ain't gona magically rise.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

La Parka said:


> Didn't Raw go up against a college basketball championship game and do one of their best numbers?
> 
> I'm not sure basketball fans are exactly knocking down the doors to see wrestling these days.


The national championship game


----------



## Geert Wilders

People do not watch weekly wrestling shows for competitive heatless matches with no story.

they watch to see their guys embroiled in personal grudge feuds. They watch to see the story develop. This has always been the case.

Tony khan is either too busy to be creative or he’s simply not creative. Hire someone man.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Imagine you’ve currently got the most talented roster you’ve ever had and your numbers are worse than when AEW began. I mean come the fuck on.

There is no excuse. The trend is a downwards line.


----------



## 3venflow

fabi1982 said:


> So where is the guy posting yoy up until the time that there was no competition with NXT anymore? Really interested how the last couple Dynamites did compared to last year?


*April 14 Episode:* 1.219 million viewers with a 0.44 rating in the 18-49 demographic (First episode following WWE NXT move to Tuesday)
*April 21 Episode:* 1.104 million viewers with a 0.37 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*April 28 Episode:* 889,000 viewers with a 0.33 rating in the 18-49 demographic

They weren't opposite the NBA at the same time last year though and anyone who says the NBA playoffs have no impact is pretty disingenuous. Even so, their demo in the past two episodes has been identical to last year's equivalent shows.

When the playoffs started in 2021, AEW got preempted (which is what will be avoided on TBS) and that led to this:

*May 28 Episode:* 526,000 viewers with a 0.20 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Friday Night Dynamite episode)
*June 4 Episode:* 462,000 viewers with a 0.19 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Friday Night Dynamite episode)
*June 11 Episode:* 487,000 viewers with a 0.19 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Friday Night Dynamite episode)
*June 18 Episode:* 552,000 viewers with a 0.20 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Friday Night Dynamite episode)
*June 26 Episode:* 649,000 viewers with a 0.21 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Saturday Night Dynamite episode)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> So where is the guy posting yoy up until the time that there was no competition with NXT anymore? Really interested how the last couple Dynamites did compared to last year?


he was perma-banned


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> People defended the decision to make a jabroni a champion. People defended the decisions to have Bryan and Punk devalue themselves by facing jobbers every week.
> 
> Well, this is what you get.


Sure, it's not like there are multiple cases where Adam Page was involved in higher/highly-rated quarterly segments or anything (with Adam Cole) not too long ago on Dynamite.

Hell, his feud with Bryan Danielson held up pretty well too in the ratings.

Seriously, why would you sacrifice 2 years of an ongoing storyline with Kenny Omega only to put the world championship on a new big name just to meet short-term success at the expense of frustrating a good portion of the hardcore audience?

CM Punk and Bryan Danielson can always win the AEW World championship later (instead of just booking them to win big accolades right away as a desperate ploy for ratings).

Adam Page has matured much more as a confident character nearly 6 months later.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

UNDISPUTED FOREHEAD BAY BAY


----------



## NathanMayberry

DammitChrist said:


> Sure, it's not like there are multiple cases where Adam Page was involved in higher/highly-rated quarterly segments or anything (with Adam Cole) not too long ago on Dynamite.
> 
> Hell, his feud with Bryan Danielson held up pretty well too in the ratings.
> 
> Seriously, why would you sacrifice 2 years of an ongoing storyline with Kenny Omega only to put the world championship on a new big name just to meet short-term success at the expense of frustrating a good portion of the hardcore audience?
> 
> CM Punk and Bryan Danielson can always win the AEW World championship later (instead of just booking them to win big accolades right away as a desperate ploy for ratings).
> 
> Adam Page has matured much more as a confident character nearly 6 months later.


Who actually gives a fuck about this dumb 2 year storyline? 

Clearly not viewers. 

Neither do people who look up wrestlers on the internet.. the dude is trending lower than R-Truth right now 










It’s time to put the title on someone people know and give a fuck about. Adam Page is neither


----------



## NathanMayberry

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> View attachment 121493
> 
> 
> UNDISPUTED FOREHEAD BAY BAY


For everyone wondering what this is about.. on SCJerk every week AEW doesn’t get a million viewers Adam Page’s forehead grows. This week he brought his friends


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

NathanMayberry said:


> Who actually gives a fuck about this dumb 2 year storyline?
> 
> Clearly not viewers.
> 
> Neither do people who look up wrestlers on the internet.. the dude is trending lower than R-Truth right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s time to put the title on someone people know and give a fuck about. Adam Page is neither


To be fair R-Truth is fucking awesome, but that's still just sad that AEW's World Champion is less popular than a jobber on WWE TV.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Khan needs to hire a few writers and the show needs to be totally revamped. It has been a mostly horrible start to the year. They can start by getting the world title off Cowboy Shit and stop hot potatoing the TNT title between two dweebs.




PhenomenalOne11 said:


> To be fair R-Truth is fucking awesome, but that's still just sad that AEW's World Champion is less popular than a jobber on WWE TV.




A 50 year old jobber that does comedy skits at that.


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> Who actually gives a fuck about this dumb 2 year storyline?
> 
> Clearly not viewers.
> 
> Neither do people who look up wrestlers on the internet.. the dude is trending lower than R-Truth right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s time to put the title on someone people know and give a fuck about. Adam Page is neither


Did you really just upload a screenshot to me where it shows that Adam Page is actually out-trending R-Truth anyway in order to make your flawed point?

Anyway, the majority of the wrestling audience actually do *care* about Adam Page (along with his great long-term storyline with Kenny Omega recently). That’s further demonstrated by his consistent good crowd reactions over the past few years despite us being repeatedly told on here that ‘nobody’ cares about him.

Perhaps, they should not do as you say, and they instead keep Adam Page as the world champion for another month?


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> To be fair R-Truth is fucking awesome, but that's still just sad that AEW's World Champion is less popular than a jobber on WWE TV.


Clearly, you misread that image since it actually shows Page being the bigger trend over Truth overall there.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Clearly, you misread that image since it actually shows Page being the bigger trend over Truth overall there.


Still nothing to brag about only just beating a WWE jobber in trends, that's pretty embarassing.


----------



## chronoxiong

I need characters in my wrestling shows. Larger than life people. Wardlow counts as one of them. Not just names. I am sure others feel the same way.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Still nothing to brag about only just beating a WWE jobber in trends, that's pretty embarassing.


Yep, now it’s ‘embarrassing’ for an AEW guy to out-trend a WWE guy just like it was previously embarrassing for someone from a less established promotion getting out-trended by someone else from a more established promotion.

There’s no winning with you here.


----------



## .christopher.

omaroo said:


> Eh what's new same old ratings.
> 
> It's the norm which ain't gona magically rise.


Except it did rise. After Punk and Bryan joined, they managed an all time high segment rating of 1.4m. 500 thousand tuned in, saw they were wasting both of them on jabronis, and left.


----------



## DaSlacker

I expect Page will be losing the title next month anyway. They've put a young babyface over who isn't known for his work in WWE or NXT. That's a win in the longterm. His stint with the title reminds me a bit like Sting and Bret Hart's first time as world champ. Great moment when they won it, then it went flat. But it cemented them as faces of their company. 

Wrestling is cyclical. Some things work, some don't. No beginning, no end. Still several million Americans will follow what's happening with the genre. Ratings will always trend downwards though due same old and changing habits.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> he was perma-banned


Ouch


----------



## RainmakerV2

Gotta move the belt to Punk. Hangman had his time.


----------



## omaroo

Would be a bad move hangman retaining at DON. He's had long reign which has been lacklustre even though I'm a fan of him.

He needs to tweak his character and make some changes after dropping the belt.

I really hope TK isn't stupid enough to have hangman retain at DON.


----------



## Mr316

This is what you get for having two boring wrestlers face eachother to open the show and then have Sammy and Scorpio close the show while Danielson/Mox are stuck wrestling jobbers in the middle of show. It’s simply fucking stupid booking but most of you don’t want to see it.

It has nothing to do with Hangman. Sure he should not bechampion but there’s simply nothing exciting about the overall show.


----------



## La Parka

Mr316 said:


> This is what you get for having two boring wrestlers face eachother to open the show and then have Sammy and Scorpio close the show while Danielson/Mox are stuck wrestling jobbers in the middle of show. It’s simply fucking stupid booking but most of you don’t want to see it.


I think a bucks vs Danielson and Mox feud could get them to a million.

for some reason like 90 percent of the roster is in a holding pattern of getting obvious wins over undercard guys and were left with shitty feuds like Darby / Andrade and Sky / Sammy.


----------



## Mr316

RainmakerV2 said:


> Gotta move the belt to Punk. Hangman had his time.


Andre The Giant could comeback and be champ and they would still draw 900k. The problem is the writing. The shows are a borefest.


----------



## Mr316

La Parka said:


> I think a bucks vs Danielson and Mox feud could get them to a million.
> 
> for some reason like 90 percent of the roster is in a holding pattern of getting obvious wins over undercard guys and were left with shitty feuds like Darby / Andrade and Sky / Sammy.


The only thing that can take them over 1 million consistently is a consistent entertaining show. The problem isn’t who’s champ or which feuds are happening. This show needs moments and stuff that actually stands out and make the viewers feel emotionally invested.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> The only thing that can take them over 1 million consistently is a consistent entertaining show. The problem isn’t who’s champ or which feuds are happening. This show needs moments and stuff that actually stands out and make the viewers feel emotionally invested.


The show is already entertaining though


----------



## omaroo

Mr316 said:


> The only thing that can take them over 1 million consistently is a consistent entertaining show. The problem isn’t who’s champ or which feuds are happening. This show needs moments and stuff that actually stands out and make the viewers feel emotionally invested.


For some one who allegedly doesn't watch anymore your opinion is irrelevant here.


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> The show is already entertaining though


So you'd change absolutely nothing about it? I won't even ask what you'd change so you don't have to shit on it but nothing? Honestly?


----------



## DammitChrist

CovidFan said:


> So you'd change absolutely nothing about it? I won't even ask what you'd change so you don't have to shit on it but nothing? Honestly?


I'd make another TNT championship change, and have Ethan Page beat Scorpio Sky soon with a lengthy title run too.


----------



## Geert Wilders

RainmakerV2 said:


> Gotta move the belt to Punk. Hangman had his time.


Adam Page wasn’t even on the show I believe.

this is a problem with the product overall.


----------



## Martyn

Geert Wilders said:


> Adam Page wasn’t even on the show I believe.
> 
> this is a problem with the product overall.


Page was off the show due to covid. Not their fault.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Martyn said:


> Page was off the show due to covid. Not their fault.


Damn, we missed all five minutes of his segment this week.


----------



## 3venflow

June is going to be one of AEW's biggest attendance months. Forbidden Door will do a big crowd hopefully on par with what The First Dance did (15,000+), then the Cali show has sold 13,400+, the Detroit show is at 9,000+ and the standalone Rampage in Cali is at 7,300+ and virtually sold out already. Late May is also looking good with DoN (13,200+ sold) and some good sales for Dynamite/Rampage events.

Attendances since returning the road, per WrestleTix. Some below average attendances of late (Daily's Place always brings down the average), but three of the last four Dynamites have done in the 6,000 range. Next week's show in Baltimore is in a smaller building (ROH's former home which is probably why they're doing the ROH Women's Title match there) and is close to selling out at 4,000+.


----------



## NathanMayberry

DammitChrist said:


> Did you really just upload a screenshot to me where it shows that Adam Page is actually out-trending R-Truth anyway in order to make your flawed point?
> 
> Anyway, the majority of the wrestling audience actually do *care* about Adam Page (along with his great long-term storyline with Kenny Omega recently). That’s further demonstrated by his consistent good crowd reactions over the past few years despite us being repeatedly told on here that ‘nobody’ cares about him.
> 
> Perhaps, they should not do as you say, and they instead keep Adam Page as the world champion for another month?


I said right now..

Adam page literally got a bump from being made champ and that cratered like 2 days after. 

Today he is lower than R Truth. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

NathanMayberry said:


> This is what now? The third week where we’ve seen a massive YOY decline?
> 
> Random wrestling matches with no build don’t draw… too bad fan boys and sycophants will keep calling this quality booking so tiny won’t change a thing..
> 
> 
> So the real question we should be asking is how many weeks until Dynamite reaches the 800s?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*I don't know, let's do BCC vs. The Dork Order next week and find out.*


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*When will they learn that no one cares about these tag team clusterfucks?*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520189688807510016


----------



## NathanMayberry

The Legit Lioness said:


> *When will they learn that no one cares about these tag team clusterfucks?*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520189688807510016


Holy shit… 

Big bang Theory left them with over a million and half viewers… 

That’s awful. 

But again, not surprising. Random matches with no build doesn’t draw and neither do the Elite.. yikes

Adam Cole is doing his best to deliver NXT numbers

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DaSlacker

It was a predictable match with glorified mid card guys vs generic low card guys. But more than likely it coincided with 4th quarter of basketball.


----------



## 3venflow

Very happy to see a million people got to see that love letter to pro wrestling between FTR. The only QH that gained in both metrics other than the main event, so in that sense the match was well placed.

Did anything significant happen in the NBA at 9:30-9:45? All of AEW and WWE's major programs have seen sharp declines right near the end lately. If not, then that ten man tag was poorly placed and killed off some interest. The UE, especially Cole, have been overexposed especially by AEW's standards where the pie is normally sliced quite evenly.

Still a fine number in the key demo comparative to other programs as it beat everything except NBA.


----------



## DaSlacker

3venflow said:


> Very happy to see a million people got to see that love letter to pro wrestling between FTR. The only QH that gained in both metrics other than the main event, so in that sense the match was well placed.
> 
> Did anything significant happen in the NBA at 9:30-9:45? All of AEW and WWE's major programs have seen sharp declines right near the end lately. If not, then that ten man tag was poorly placed and killed off some interest. The UE, especially Cole, have been overexposed especially by AEW's standards where the pie is normally sliced quite evenly.
> 
> Still a fine number in the key demo comparative to other programs as it beat everything except NBA.


Bulls last gasp before being eliminated by defending champions. They were having their best season in a decade and have had more viewers lately.


----------



## TD Stinger

Conflicted Elite Bollocks not drawing? Gasp I say! Gasp!


----------



## omaroo

TD Stinger said:


> Conflicted Elite Bollocks not drawing? Gasp I say! Gasp!


Melodrama with those pricks which seems even the audience have gone so tired of. 

Really cole and bucks should take the rest of the year off and come back next year. So stale and boring right now.


----------



## NathanMayberry

DaSlacker said:


> Bulls last gasp before being eliminated by defending champions. They were having their best season in a decade and have had more viewers lately.


The game wasn't even close. It was a blowout and was done as a contest by half time.

It was the second least watched playoff game of the past week. The only game that was lower was the Raptors - Sixers game from last night which was a bigger blowout.


----------



## RainmakerV2

You mean a 10 man jobber tag that was just the Elite jerking themselves off killed the show? I'm shocked.


----------



## The real Axel

Another L for the dubbalos. #BetterThanExpected


----------



## Chan Hung

They have so much talent. Rampage would be a no brainer how to beef it up with better talent and more interesting matchups.


----------



## .christopher.

NathanMayberry said:


> Holy shit…
> 
> Big bang Theory left them with over a million and half viewers…
> 
> That’s awful.
> 
> But again, not surprising. Random matches with no build doesn’t draw and neither do the Elite.. yikes
> 
> Adam Cole is doing his best to deliver NXT numbers
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's what I forget to mention.

As well as Bryan and Punk, they snapped up the act that their opposition was centred around and STILL lost viewers.


----------



## DaSlacker

The real Axel said:


> Jesus Christ get a grip, geek
> 
> Anyways the normal people are still embarrassed to watch WWE and AEW and the ratings show it.


You either like wrestling or you don't. Same with any niche entertainment. Very few ever watched it religiously each week. Only when it was a fad and episodic or they were young and super into it. 

Getting a million live viewers in 2022 is like getting 5 million live viewers in 1997.


----------



## CovidFan

DaSlacker said:


> Getting a million live viewers in 2022 is like getting 5 million live viewers in 1997.


How do you figure this number? If RAW's getting 1.6m, that equals 8 million people that would have watched in 1997? They never achieved 8 million in 1997. When RAW got 2m a few weeks ago, they'd have had 10 million in 1997?


----------



## Randy Lahey

Dax/Cash growing the lead in audience was a great sign for them,

The 5 man jobber clusterfuck with the Young Bucks was a disaster. Probably last time Tony ever books one of those matches


----------



## Gn1212

The Legit Lioness said:


> *When will they learn that no one cares about these tag team clusterfucks?*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520189688807510016


You mean to tell me Punk got viewers up?
Also, where the fuck is that guy that keeps on banging that drum about The Bucks, Cole and the lot being a draw?
This was their first match since they faced FTR, but I'm supposed to believe they carry AEW. 🤣


----------



## DammitChrist

There's been multiple instances where both Adam Cole and the Young Bucks have either held up the viewership pretty well, or their segments ended up receiving a fairly good number respectively.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479255448981286912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484285286221680643

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486889869548920833


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493633453224456192
Admittedly, I'm limited with examples for the Young Bucks for this particular thread since they've barely wrestled much this year; but I definitely recall them (and Adam Cole) receiving really good numbers back in July through September last year.

Plus, I think the Young Bucks generally had more good weeks with the ratings than poor weeks back in the pandemic era where Dynamite was aired/taped in Daily's Place.

Every wrestler unfortunately goes through underwhelming weeks at some point regarding the ratings. Besides, AEW usually struggles with Quarter 7 on a historical basis. That unusual dip for this week was an unfortunate one.

Can we not make it seem like Adam Cole and the Young Bucks are 'killing' the viewership because of some instances where the ratings dip or fluctuate for whatever reason?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *When will they learn that no one cares about these tag team clusterfucks?*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520189688807510016


main event in Q1 syndrome - only real AEW booking flaw


----------



## DaSlacker

CovidFan said:


> How do you figure this number? If RAW's getting 1.6m, that equals 8 million people that would have watched in 1997? They never achieved 8 million in 1997. When RAW got 2m a few weeks ago, they'd have had 10 million in 1997?


Yeah sorry, I was a bit hyperbolic there. It's definitely not that much, but 1 million is a lot more than it seems. 

Back in April 1997 you had shows like ER, Seinfeld, Home Improvement and Friends doing anywhere from 20 - 30 million viewers on an average day. There were shy of 100 million TV households and nearly 70 million of them had pay TV. 

In April 2022 you have Chicago Fire, 911, Young Sheldon and FBI doing between 5 - 8 million viewers on an average day. There are 122 million TV households and just over 70 million pay TV subscribers. 

So the number of potential viewers for network shows has increased by 20%. Yet the the live viewers is a quarter of what it was 25 years ago. 

The same could be said for wrestling. But their potential viewers is only slightly more and falling due to cord cutting.


----------



## Dr. Middy

I mean anybody who argues that cable TV isn't dying while even the viewership all major networks are severely down compared to 10 years ago, is honestly a fool. 

That being said, that Undisputed Elite match was a nothing match, and it got the rating I'd expect it to. I think they are kinda just waiting for Kenny to get back, it feels like all of them are just in stasis.


----------



## Prosper

Not surprised at the 10-man tag losing live viewers. Even I skipped it. Decent overall rating otherwise.


----------



## Mr316

Wait. They closed the show with 799k? 😂😂😂

and yeah I’m the troll over here and AEW is freaking awesome right?

Poor storytelling. Wrestlers in the wrong chair. Nothing stands out.

Keep going Tony, soon you’ll have 500k watching telling you your show is incredible.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> Wait. They closed the show with 799k? 😂😂😂
> 
> and yeah I’m the troll over here and AEW is freaking awesome right?
> 
> Poor storytelling. Wrestlers in the wrong chair. Nothing stands out.
> 
> Keep going Tony, soon you’ll have 500k watching telling you your show is incredible.


It's pretty funny how similar comments like this one were made throughout June last year (about how they've "lost half of their audience and that they'll be stuck at 500 K viewers for good due to _poor booking"_), but yet they were quickly shut down a month later in July where they saw major growth all the way into early October pre-schedule changes 😂

I see that you're not going to acknowledge the fact that most of their quarters were around the 900+ K mark, or that they even reached over a million viewers at some point too (while you predictably focus on the negative anomaly).



> and yeah I’m the troll over here and AEW is freaking awesome right?


Huh, I finally agree with you about something this year 

Both of those points are true


----------



## Mr316

DammitChrist said:


> I see that you're not going to acknowledge the fact that most of their quarters were around the 900+ K mark, or that they even reached over a million viewers at some point too (while you predictably focus on the negative anomaly


Thank you to a great lead in. Otherwise they’re entire show would be in the low 800k.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> *Thank you to a great lead in*. Otherwise they’re entire show would be in the low 800k.


Huh?

They reached over a million viewers on the *2nd Quarter*; which was during the last 4 minutes of Dax Harwood vs Cash Wheeler, CM Punk's post-match promo, and the beginning of the BCC match (against the Factory).

That increase was *in spite* of the lead-in here.

Edit:

For the record, they wouldn't be in the low 800 K range in overall viewership if *5* of their quarters were already *above* the 900 K range in the first place.


----------



## Mr316

DammitChrist said:


> Huh?
> 
> They reached over a million viewers on the *2nd Quarter*; which was during the last 4 minutes of Dax Harwood vs Cash Wheeler, CM Punk's post-match promo, and the beginning of the BCC match (against the Factory).
> 
> That increase was *in spite* of the lead-in here.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> For the record, they wouldn't be in the low 800 K range in overall viewership if *5* of their quarters were already *above*





DammitChrist said:


> Huh?
> 
> They reached over a million viewers on the *2nd Quarter*; which was during the last 4 minutes of Dax Harwood vs Cash Wheeler, CM Punk's post-match promo, and the beginning of the BCC match (against the Factory).
> 
> That increase was *in spite* of the lead-in here.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> For the record, they wouldn't be in the low 800 K range in overall viewership if *5* of their quarters were already *above* the 900 K range in the first place.


799k finished the show. They lost 200k because the show absolutely sucks. Probably another 200k couldn’t switch channel because they fell asleep at half point.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> 799k finished the show.


So, what?

It's an anomaly since their quarters RARELY go under 800 K viewers (and it's still fairly uncommon for them to dip under 900 K viewers unless there was some major interference that impacts Dynamite's viewership).

They generally remain over 900 K viewers (usually in the middle range) for their quarters on a weekly basis, which was the case for 5 of their quarterly segments for this week; which you continue to ignore.



> They lost 200k because the show absolutely sucks.


Nah, the show is honestly really good 



> Probably another 200k couldn’t switch channel because they fell asleep at half point.


Yea, I can't wait until next week's rating where Quarter 8 will easily surpass 799K viewers, and you'll come up with another reason to downplay their better number


----------



## Dr. Middy

Mr316 said:


> Wait. They closed the show with 799k? 😂😂😂
> 
> and yeah I’m the troll over here and AEW is freaking awesome right?
> 
> Poor storytelling. Wrestlers in the wrong chair. Nothing stands out.
> 
> Keep going Tony, soon you’ll have 500k watching telling you your show is incredible.


I mean you 100% are the troll who hated the show, pretended to love the show for months, then flipped and hated it again, then recently gave up on it only to continue watching it and discussing it.

I guess you find some weird enjoyment in doing what you're doing. I just find it strange and a waste of time.


----------



## CM Buck

Mr316 said:


> 799k finished the show. They lost 200k because the show absolutely sucks. Probably another 200k couldn’t switch channel because they fell asleep at half point.


We get it. You don't need to ram your aew sucks I'm never watching again shtick down our throat. You're trolling at this point


----------



## NathanMayberry

DammitChrist said:


> It's pretty funny how similar comments like this one were made throughout June last year (about how they've "lost half of their audience and that they'll be stuck at 500 K viewers for good due to _poor booking"_), but yet they were quickly shut down a month later in July where they saw major growth all the way into early October pre-schedule changes 😂
> 
> I see that you're not going to acknowledge the fact that most of their quarters were around the 900+ K mark, or that they even reached over a million viewers at some point too (while you predictably focus on the negative anomaly).
> 
> 
> 
> Huh, I finally agree with you about something this year
> 
> Both of those points are true


"Major Growth"

aka debuts


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> "Major Growth"
> 
> aka debuts


Considering the fact that their ppv buyrates have increased consistently/significantly since last September starting at All Out 2021, yes, they have experienced major growth, and it'll continue to occur since they're only on Year 3 too


----------



## .christopher.

Dr. Middy said:


> I mean anybody who argues that cable TV isn't dying while even the viewership all major networks are severely down compared to 10 years ago, is honestly a fool.
> 
> That being said, that Undisputed Elite match was a nothing match, and it got the rating I'd expect it to. I think they are kinda just waiting for Kenny to get back, it feels like all of them are just in stasis.


If Kenny is smart, he'll see how big of a jabroni fest that shit is and get out of dodge asap. Course, he'll have to do something at first with them as it's what's expected by the diehards, but he needs to do it as quick as possible and establish himself as a lone soldier with Don Callis as that's where he actually looks like what he's hyped up to be.


Firefromthegods said:


> We get it. You don't need to ram your aew sucks I'm never watching again shtick down our throat. You're trolling at this point


It's a shame he's brought the troll label upon himself as he's stating facts. His recent thread about that Ruby main event was an excellent point, too, but was prematurely closed because of who he is.


----------



## Dr. Middy

.christopher. said:


> If Kenny is smart, he'll see how big of a jabroni fest that shit is and get out of dodge asap. Course, he'll have to do something at first with them as it's what's expected by the diehards, but he needs to do it as quick as possible and establish himself as a lone soldier with Don Callis as that's where he actually looks like what he's hyped up to be.
> 
> It's a shame he's brought the troll label upon himself as he's stating facts. His recent thread about that Ruby main event was an excellent point, too, but was prematurely closed because of who he is.


Ideally I'd prefer if he just did a solo babyface run independent of The Elite or something, but I think the plan is for him to come back and for the trios titles to be established, so you'll probably see a Kenny/Bucks and Red Dragon/Cole deal. Which could be fun, but I'm not as interested in it really, and the whole Elite storyline has run its course, both in AEW and even prior to that in NJPW.

I mean "the show sucks, nobody is good, there is 0 storytelling and 0 which stands out" isn't a fact, it's completely subjective, unless you're going by ratings only, which is flawed in itself. Would be like saying Transformers is better most movies in history because it made more money.


----------



## Whoanma

Dr. Middy said:


> Ideally I'd prefer if he just did a solo babyface run independent of The Elite or something













Dr. Middy said:


> you'll probably see a Kenny/Bucks and Red Dragon/Cole deal


----------



## DammitChrist

We will get Kenny Omega reunited with Adam Cole soon, and it’ll be good/entertaining television


----------



## Whoanma

DammitChrist said:


> We will get Kenny Omega reunited with Adam Cole soon, and it’ll be good/entertaining television


----------



## CM Buck

.christopher. said:


> If Kenny is smart, he'll see how big of a jabroni fest that shit is and get out of dodge asap. Course, he'll have to do something at first with them as it's what's expected by the diehards, but he needs to do it as quick as possible and establish himself as a lone soldier with Don Callis as that's where he actually looks like what he's hyped up to be.
> 
> It's a shame he's brought the troll label upon himself as he's stating facts. His recent thread about that Ruby main event was an excellent point, too, but was prematurely closed because of who he is.


Doesn't have to be a dick about it though. The way he is presenting the "facts" is designed to stir people up.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Randy Lahey said:


> Dax/Cash growing the lead in audience was a great sign for them,
> 
> The 5 man jobber clusterfuck with the Young Bucks was a disaster. *Probably last time Tony ever books one of those matches*




Don’t count on it. Tony and a slice of the AEW viewing audience seem to love these 3on3-5on5 clusterfuck matches that just turn into scripted spotfests.


----------



## La Parka

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Don’t count on it. Tony and a slice of the AEW viewing audience seem to love these 3on3-5on5 clusterfuck matches that just turn into scripted spotfests.


Even that slice of audience has to be tired of it by now....

I find it hard to believe there’s people consistently invested in these clusterfuck tags that have the same shitty spots. The 200k that didn’t leave must just have their TV on while they browse the internet.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521221432570699783

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Nothing too surprising there. NBA has been hurting wrestling and add in the NFL draft and it's a massacre. Smackdown especially got hit hard.

Rampage could suffer even more coming up with its timeslot being thrown around. This Friday's is airing at 5:30pm ET / 4:30pm CT when many aren't even off work yet. Great for us in the UK though as that's a 9:30pm start I believe instead of the usual 3am.


----------



## 3venflow

Brandon Thurston believes WWE could be worth +1.5x their current TV rights next time and AEW +4.9x.

I guessed around $100m per year (currently $45m), but this would be closer to $220m per year and would not only soak their current costs, but mean much more left over (possibly for improved production, improved salaries, etc.?). Of course, there are several variables - ie. if there are rival bidders, state of the cable industry, streaming possibilities, etc. - but things still look promising on the TV front.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Wrestlenomics thinks Dynamite should get a x4.9 price hike

bit high estimation IMO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521613319429259265


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I don't really watch AEW anymore and only follow it through social media and here but I've just looked at the results for their latest edition of Dynamite and it's still the same shit plaguing them that plagued them when I was watching regularly in late 2020.

Long over the top boring "good wrestling" opener? Check (Dax/Cash)

Boring six man tag team match often featuring a team of stars being competitive with midcarders or lower? Check. (BCC Vs Aaron Solo, Nick Comoroto and QT Marshall)

Random gimmick match given away on TV? Check. (Hikaru Shida/Serena Deeb in street fight)

Boring multi man match involving the Bucks? Check. (5 on 5 tag)

Way too long main event featuring talent that only the super hardcore wrestling fans are into? Check. (Scorpio/Sammy)

---

- Nobody wants to see a long drawn out match open a wrestling show. 15 minutes is entirely too long even on the indies, if that were two of my guys I'd be saying too long. Tony is clearly trying to copy WCW who always kicked off with a hot opener but those matches in WCW usually lasted between 4-7 minutes not 15.

- It hurts your stars each time they go close to 8 minutes with the likes of QT Marshall.

- Random gimmick matches on TV makes gimmick matches mean less. From what I'm reading AEW has had a gimmick match for the last 3 weeks in a row, how are they special anymore? Also, two women having a street fight turns people away.

- The Bucks random multi man spot fest got old 2-3 years ago. 

- The typical long drawn out "good wrestling" main event isn't what people want either.

---

Booker of the year two years running? Maybe in a library...


----------



## DaSlacker

That seems way too high. 

NBC renewed the English Premier League for 450 million. A niche but growing following the US - each game averaging something like 450,000 viewers. Yet they have the rights to 380 games per year, i.e over 900 hours of content per year. AEW clocks up about 160 hours of content per year. 

So even with the higher viewership and demo I don't see how each hour of of AEW is worth that much more what NBC is paying for one hour of sports content. 

I know you could say the same about WWE. Yet they signed that deal when viewership was higher after years of being intentionally undervalued by networks. They also leveraged Raw and SmackDown by selling the rights to different networks. One reason why the likes of MLB and NBA have signed such huge deals is that they instigated a bidding war. Lastly, it comes with links to WrestleMania and massive social media traction. WM being household name brand up there with Stanley Cup and the NBA Finals in terms of fame. 

What Tony Khan has in his pocket is a consistent franchise, with no off season, on an undervalued deal and several media giants fighting it out for franchises and live content. Especially content that a younger demo will pay for. Though without historic name value or sub brands he can leverage I don't see how the value jumps by 4.5 what it is now. Double yeah.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DaSlacker said:


> That seems way too high.
> 
> NBC renewed the English Premier League for 450 million. A niche but growing following the US - each game averaging something like 450,000 viewers. Yet they have the rights to 380 games per year, i.e over 900 hours of content per year. AEW clocks up about 160 hours of content per year.
> 
> So even with the higher viewership and demo I don't see how each hour of of AEW is worth that much more what NBC is paying for one hour of sports content.
> 
> I know you could say the same about WWE. Yet they signed that deal when viewership was higher after years of being intentionally undervalued by networks. They also leveraged Raw and SmackDown by selling the rights to different networks. One reason why the likes of MLB and NBA have signed such huge deals is that they instigated a bidding war. Lastly, it comes with links to WrestleMania and massive social media traction. WM being household name brand up there with Stanley Cup and the NBA Finals in terms of fame.
> 
> What Tony Khan has in his pocket is a consistent franchise, with no off season, on an undervalued deal and several media giants fighting it out for franchises and live content. Especially content that a younger demo will pay for. Though without historic name value or sub brands he can leverage I don't see how the value jumps by 4.5 what it is now. Double yeah.


I’m with you 4.9x is crazy

I was at 2.0x times - ie 80m to 90m

rounded to 100m for shits and giggles - but anything from 80m upwards is good IMO


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't really watch AEW anymore and only follow it through social media and here but I've just looked at the results for their latest edition of Dynamite and it's still the same shit plaguing them that plagued them when I was watching regularly in late 2020.
> 
> Long over the top boring "good wrestling" opener? Check (Dax/Cash)
> 
> Boring six man tag team match often featuring a team of stars being competitive with midcarders or lower? Check. (BCC Vs Aaron Solo, Nick Comoroto and QT Marshall)
> 
> Random gimmick match given away on TV? Check. (Hikaru Shida/Serena Deeb in street fight)
> 
> Boring multi man match involving the Bucks? Check. (5 on 5 tag)
> 
> Way too long main event featuring talent that only the super hardcore wrestling fans are into? Check. (Scorpio/Sammy)
> 
> ---
> 
> - Nobody wants to see a long drawn out match open a wrestling show. 15 minutes is entirely too long even on the indies, if that were two of my guys I'd be saying too long. Tony is clearly trying to copy WCW who always kicked off with a hot opener but those matches in WCW usually lasted between 4-7 minutes not 15.
> 
> - It hurts your stars each time they go close to 8 minutes with the likes of QT Marshall.
> 
> - Random gimmick matches on TV makes gimmick matches mean less. From what I'm reading AEW has had a gimmick match for the last 3 weeks in a row, how are they special anymore? Also, two women having a street fight turns people away.
> 
> - The Bucks random multi man spot fest got old 2-3 years ago.
> 
> - The typical long drawn out "good wrestling" main event isn't what people want either.
> 
> ---
> 
> Booker of the year two years running? Maybe in a library...


"Someone please give my shit no-context takes the attention they need so I can tattle-tale and snitch to the moderators in Rants when people come at me"


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prosper said:


> "Someone please give my shit no-context takes the attention they need so I can tattle-tale and snitch to the moderators in Rants when people come at me"


That post reads like a ‘critic bingo card’ xD


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Prosper said:


> "Someone please give my shit no-context takes the attention they need so I can tattle-tale and snitch to the moderators in Rants when people come at me"


Yeah, what would I know? I've only been in the business longer then some of the younger members here have been alive.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

WRESTLING draws


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522235656185028612

Edit> completely sold out in 40 min


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522240367499882498


----------



## TD Stinger

Impressive and not surprising to see them sell out so quickly. I do wonder if they open up more tickets behind the stage and go for a smaller stage to fit more people.


----------



## Dr. Middy

^ You know, this makes me wonder what the better option would be? 

Is it better to sell out the United Center so quickly, or to go and have a show at like Guaranteed Rate Field (baseball stadium where the White Sox play), and try to do as many people as you can, and possibly end up doing WAY more than 14K. Something like below:










This was a NJPW at Jingu Stadium for one of their bigger shows in 2020, but they had strict Covid measures in place. But this kind of setup, granted, you maybe could stick the stage in the outfield, would be interesting.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

But guyzzzz… how does all this make AEW grow to casualsss?

@bdon any ideas??


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> But guyzzzz… how does all this make AEW grow to casualsss?
> 
> @bdon any ideas??


The Casuals?

FUCK THEM KIDS!!!


----------



## Prosper

AEW should definitely attempt a stadium show and see how they do.


----------



## 3venflow

Based on the demand and those turned away, I believe AEW could have sold around 30,000 tickets for Forbidden Door today.

When it comes time to do Omega vs. Punk, they need to be looking at a proper stadium.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

I suggest the Georgia Do-

Ohhhh yeah 

Anyway, that's obviously great for wrestling.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> But guyzzzz… how does all this make AEW grow to casualsss?
> 
> @bdon any ideas??


I keep coming back to the NBA analogy; not sure how many hoops fans we have on a wrestling forum, but here goes:

In 2002, David Stern began to implement rules that would encourage more ball movement, right? The NBA had been ruled for the previous 11 years by Michael Jordan getting the ball in isolation (1-on-1 opportunties) with a live dribble from the 18’ mark. From this position and distance, he was the ultimate triple threat, which means he could beat you from the post, take you off the dribble, or simply shoot with efficiency on each of the threats. The defense was helpless as they could not effectively double team without setting off an “Illegal Defense” call that resulted in a foul shot and possession to the Bulls. 

This was in stark contrast to the fast-paced, up and down game the NBA had presented in the 80s with Magic Johnson and Larry Bird sharing the wealth with lots of flashy passes. Jordan was massive draw, though, and gave a huge boon to the league’s revenue.

Once Jordan left, the league was faced with watching Jordan’s former coach, Phil Jackson, now placing the league’s best two players, Shaq and Kobe, in those same Iso spots where defenses were helpless.

Fans were not pleased. It was one thing for a Midwest city like Chicago without a tradition of winning to bend the 30+ year rules to their favor, but it was another thing when it was a “coastal elite” city like Los Angeles who had been to half of the league’s history of Finals.

So, in ‘02, Stern implements “zone defenses” to encourage faster paced games and to highlight 3-pt shooting, ie a game more similar to college and international play. In ‘05 or ‘06, Larry Bird is on television with Magic Johnson discussing how he wished there more “white American” players dominating the game. In 2011, the league offices began to instruct referees to enforce “freedom of movement”, which basicallysays defenses are not allowed to touch the offensive players, even if using quick feet and cutting off their angles.

How does this have anything to do with wrestling?

All of those decisions to change the rules from what worked in Michael Jordan’s day were made in an effort to appeal to the wholesome, middle American family with children who are unlikely to ever dunk a basketball (no matter how much training they do), but they can learn to shoot a basketball and, thus, fall more in love with the game.

The game itself is garbage and does not appeal to me, a lifelong NBA fan/afficianado/historian, but my short, unathletic nephew damn sure loves watching him some Steph Curry.

The NBA, like the WWE, has cracked the code on how to make more and more money. The NBA is making more money than they ever dreamed of making while Jordan was ruling the league, and yet the product is considerably less enjoyable to ANYONE who has ever played serious hoops or watched great hoops of yesteryear.

Yes, Vince is making far more money than TK and AEW. And AEW’s money-making potential IS slightly capped due to the excessive gimmick matches, bloodshed, weapons use, and cursing. But if it making more money requires AEW to change what I have always loved about pro-wrestling (and no, they don’t get it perfectly right as they do a lot of goofy shit), then I’d prefer TK stay happy making whafever they can under current conditions.

Appealing to The Casuals will ruin everything: sports, movies, television, wrestling, music, you name it.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522268935600541696


----------



## Prized Fighter

Dr. Middy said:


> ^ You know, this makes me wonder what the better option would be?
> 
> Is it better to sell out the United Center so quickly, or to go and have a show at like Guaranteed Rate Field (baseball stadium where the White Sox play), and try to do as many people as you can, and possibly end up doing WAY more than 14K. Something like below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a NJPW at Jingu Stadium for one of their bigger shows in 2020, but they had strict Covid measures in place. But this kind of setup, granted, you maybe could stick the stage in the outfield, would be interesting.


I agree that AEW should test themselves and try a huge venue. Not Guaranteed Rate Field though, that stadium is in a shitty part of Chicago. Honestly, I would prefer they do a big show outside Chicago. Maybe try Citi Field or Yankee Stadium in New York. They could also try some of the bigger college football stadiums. WWE doesn't run those stadiums generally (except for the Orange Bowl). It is important to be strategic with those because some of those colleges are longer drives from bigger cities. 



bdon said:


> The Casuals?
> 
> FUCK THEM KIDS!!!


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522288501080920064


----------



## Prosper

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522288501080920064


Fastest sell-out in AEW history?


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522303265760759810

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RainmakerV2

Fuckin ouch.


----------



## bdon

_cough_ They miss Omega more than anyone wants to admit. _cough_


----------



## 3venflow

Everything is struggling at the moment, but that's a bit lower than I expected. What I hope to see from the QHs is a decent first hour and weak second, so Tony never books another women's main event until one actually justifies it.

It still probably ranked in or around the top five if NBA is just killing everything else.


----------



## Mr316

Oh well. Maybe the trolls are right afterall? Maybe the show does suck? Look at that main event last night. What the hell do you expect?


----------



## Randy Lahey

Give the ladies the last 30 minutes of the show and you get the lowest viewership in over a year.

Mission accommplished. 

Hopefully that is the last we ever see of it


----------



## TD Stinger

NBA competition & a weak card. Not really surprised.


----------



## Rankles75

Numbers are generally down everywhere atm, because of NBA and other shit, but still not good…


----------



## Mr316

Randy Lahey said:


> Give the ladies the last 30 minutes of the show and you get the lowest viewership in over a year.
> 
> Mission accommplished.
> 
> Hopefully that is the last we ever see of it


On top of that booker of the year puts one lady who never was a single second on Dynamite and another one who’s been on wrestling on Dark. What a genius.


----------



## Prosper

Oof.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Yeah wrestling ratings is down massively everywhere.

That Wrestlemania hangover is spreading to all companies it seems. Not promising going forward.


----------



## 3venflow

Despite the drop to 0.32, it still finished fourth on cable due to the NBA's dominance. Dynamite beat the NHL playoff games.

Until the NBA playoffs are over, Dynamite, Rampage, RAW and Smackdown will continue to suffer - maybe even more than they have been.


----------



## Derek30

I mean. Yeah. I’ve enjoyed a lot of Dynamites in my time but last night was a yawner especially that main event. If they booked the rest of the show like they’ve booked the MJF/Punk and MJF/Wardlow arcs, they’d be doing a lot better.


----------



## RapShepard

Cut the excuses, they're simply not putting on a show people find worth watching over basketball. Every year the NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLB will have about 4-8 weeks of Playoff games. Every year the talent shows and Challenge will be on. Folk have got to stop finding weekly competition excuses.


----------



## DammitChrist

It's not excuses when they're perfectly valid reasons.


----------



## Dr. Middy

The number sucks, plain and simple. I'm curious on the drop for the main event honestly.

However the logic therefore is that I must in turn think that AEW is trash, because total viewership is a direct correlation to show quality. Which makes Avatar the greatest movie of all time due to its total gross.


----------



## Geert Wilders

THIS IS PRO-WRESTLING.


----------



## 3venflow

When contextualizing ratings, this is the most important data type and what networks will focus mostly on. This strips away all the variables because it compares the key metric against how everything else is doing (the chart is cable AND network, so obviously network has an advantage - Dynamite and RAW are usually top 5 on just cable).


----------



## Dr. Middy

3venflow said:


> When contextualizing ratings, this is the most important data type and what networks will focus mostly on. This strips away all the variables because it compares the key metric against how everything else is doing (the chart is cable AND network, so obviously network has an advantage).
> 
> View attachment 121833


----------



## Mr316

DammitChrist said:


> It's not excuses when they're perfectly valid reasons.


Look at that fucking main event last night. That’s the primary reason why they’re losing viewers.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

AEW finished behind NBA. ‘Nuff said. If there were an assortment of other shit that finished higher, I’d be concerned. There are some things people would rather watch wrestling instead of, and there are some things they’d rather watch instead of wrestling, and no amount of hotshotting the card or exceptional booking is going to change that at this point. If they had announced was Omega returning last night, does anybody really think a significant number of NBA fans would have given a shit to tune in? As long as AEW stays closer to the top of that list than the middle or the bottom, they’re doing ok. That’s not to say the product isn’t in need of some improvement, but let’s be real here, the kind of improvement needed to swing viewership above pro sports playoffs just ain’t happening.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Mr316 said:


> Look at that fucking main event last night. That’s the primary reason why they’re losing viewers.


Now now we can’t blame the two women.

it’s actually Tony Khan we blame. He has no business being head of creative.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

3venflow said:


> Despite the drop to 0.32, it still finished fourth on cable due to the NBA's dominance. Dynamite beat the NHL playoff games.
> 
> Until the NBA playoffs are over, Dynamite, Rampage, RAW and Smackdown will continue to suffer - maybe even more than they have been.
> 
> View attachment 121832


What people are not realizing is the top 4 shows are all Warner/Discovery. I think executives are ecstatic over that fact.


----------



## Geert Wilders

@DammitChrist you gotta stop taking it so personally bro. We know you enjoy the product but I don’t and I’m expressing my opinion. I’m not going to judge you for enjoying the show.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522303265760759810
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


no shit

was a bad show

one thing i know for sure, is Tony will be all over these ratings analytics - we’ll most likely never get a women’s main event ‘outta nowhere’ for some time


----------



## Chan Hung

Wednesday night’s episode of AEW Dynamite on TBS pulled in *833,000 viewers, *which is down from the show last week that did 921,000 viewers. *This was the lowest total viewership since last May in its normal timeslot.*
^^
And there it is. As i predicted, a low rating for a low quality overall show that had perhaps one of the worst main events since they started and to top it off featuring a brand not of their own product with one particular talent pretty much an unknown and the other in Mercedes as barely known. Instead of doing a great go home toward their upcoming ppv, they decided to go on cruise control as they usually do (expecting automatic buys from loyalty) but instead, they put everyone to sleep.


----------



## .christopher.

Reggie Dunlop said:


> AEW finished behind NBA. ‘Nuff said. If there were an assortment of other shit that finished higher, I’d be concerned. There are some things people would rather watch wrestling instead of, and there are some things they’d rather watch instead of wrestling, and no amount of hotshotting the card or exceptional booking is going to change that at this point. If they had announced was Omega returning last night, does anybody really think a significant number of NBA fans would have given a shit to tune in? As long as AEW stays closer to the top of that list than the middle or the bottom, they’re doing ok. That’s not to say the product isn’t in need of some improvement, but let’s be real here, the kind of improvement needed to swing viewership above pro sports playoffs just ain’t happening.


Spin it however you want, but this was AEWs worst rating in just shy of a year. Since then, they've become free of NXT, apparently moved to a better channel in tbs, and spent millions on Bryan and Punk, and they're LOSING viewers.


----------



## Sad Panda

AEW’s gotta be better than what they offered last night. I know you can’t fire on all cylinders every week, but with the girth of talent on that roster, and just weeks out from a pay per view this can’t be what your giving the audience, especially during that 2nd hour.

Im confident Khan will learn from this, it’s certainly not the first time, nor the last time a Booker made a bonehead move. With that said, he needs to be better.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Glass half full, glass half empty …


----------



## Chan Hung

Sad Panda said:


> AEW’s gotta be better than what they offered last night. I know you can’t fire on all cylinders every week, but with the girth of talent on that roster, and just weeks out from a pay per view this can’t be what your giving the audience, especially during that 2nd hour.
> 
> Im confident Khan will learn from this, it’s certainly not the first time, nor the last time a Booker made a bonehead move. With that said, he needs to be better.


This. You would never tell they have a PPV around the corner with the type of low quality shown.


----------



## TD Stinger

When it comes to the ratings, obviously AEW want better for Dynamite. WWE wants better than what Raw & SD are getting right now. But, at the end of the day, at others have said, Dynamite even on a "bad night" like this is going to finish around the Top 5. Raw has all 3 hours come in after the NBA slots. SD a lot of the times is at the very top of the Demo in Cable & Network TV (until now with the NBA Playoffs).

So yeah, you would rather see AEW doing closer to a .4 than a .3. But they're still in a solid spot considering their ranking every week. And again, you can say the same about Raw & SD. To the point that when all the shows are up on their contacts, they'll all get raises.

Where I'll worry is if AEW drops into the .25 range or something like that consistently.


----------



## Seafort

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522303265760759810
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Two thoughts come to mind.

Raw is getting hammered by the playoffs too.

Ive loved AEW, but Ive never been less excited about the company than I am right now. And any focus on ROH is a negative to me. It’s about as impactful as a MLW or Gresham’s Terminus promotion appearing on the show.


----------



## qntntgood

Chan Hung said:


> Wednesday night’s episode of AEW Dynamite on TBS pulled in *833,000 viewers, *which is down from the show last week that did 921,000 viewers. *This was the lowest total viewership since last May in its normal timeslot.*
> ^^
> And there it is. As i predicted, a low rating for a low quality overall show that had perhaps one of the worst main events since they started and to top it off featuring a brand not of their own product with one particular talent pretty much an unknown and the other in Mercedes as barely known. Instead of doing a great go home toward their upcoming ppv, they decided to go on cruise control as they usually do (expecting automatic buys from loyalty) but instead, they put everyone to sleep.


Three years,nothing has changed what's the excuse this time.


----------



## La Parka

RapShepard said:


> Cut the excuses, they're simply not putting on a show people find worth watching over basketball. Every year the NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLB will have about 4-8 weeks of Playoff games. Every year the talent shows and Challenge will be on. Folk have got to stop finding weekly competition excuses.


Personally, I’m excited for the election excuses to come back. Few more years!


----------



## Geert Wilders

La Parka said:


> Personally, I’m excited for the election excuses to come back. Few more years!


Wait till the queen dies.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The show is also painfully predictable. People can shit on WWEs 50/50 booking and it's fair, but at least you don't know who's gonna win every single match before the bell rings. I mean just look at last night. 


Everyone knows Hardy is winning.

Everyone knows the BCC is winning.

Everyone knows Fenix is winning.

Everyone knows Jericho ain't jobbing on TV.

Everyone knows Wardlow is winning.

Everyone knows Mercedes is winning because Deonna isn't signed.


They hardly ever throw in an upset or gotcha finish to keep people on their toes either. What's the point in watching unless you really really like long TV matches?


----------



## ClintDagger

.christopher. said:


> Spin it however you want, but this was AEWs worst rating in just shy of a year. Since then, they've become free of NXT, apparently moved to a better channel in tbs, and spent millions on Bryan and Punk, and they're LOSING viewers.


Those two signings were horrible investments. As were Hardy, Cole, Lee, and on and on and on. The people that care about Punk, Bryan et. al. were already tuned in to AEW week after week. AEW needs to stop trying to be WWE lite and instead focus on creating & building new stars.


----------



## RapShepard

Reggie Dunlop said:


> AEW finished behind NBA. ‘Nuff said. If there were an assortment of other shit that finished higher, I’d be concerned. There are some things people would rather watch wrestling instead of, and there are some things they’d rather watch instead of wrestling, and no amount of hotshotting the card or exceptional booking is going to change that at this point. If they had announced was Omega returning last night, does anybody really think a significant number of NBA fans would have given a shit to tune in? As long as AEW stays closer to the top of that list than the middle or the bottom, they’re doing ok. *That’s not to say the product isn’t in need of some improvement, but let’s be real here, the kind of improvement needed to swing viewership above pro sports playoffs just ain’t happening.*


Thing is this argument kind gives wrestling as a whole an easy out to not improve. Because I mean if the improvements won't even matter, then hell why improve. But let's run with it, let's say wrestling as a while will just never be as popular as ball sports again, okay cool. But when even the most fair minded fans of WWE/AEW can acknowledge they have lackluster spots, then there should be a push for improving. 

Raw and SmackDown likely will never get 3s and 4s again. But maybe if they didn't run the same matches multiple times a month people are more incentivized to actually consistently watch. Maybe a House of Black could be an asset if say they finally got into a real story with real explanation.


----------



## Geert Wilders

ClintDagger said:


> Those two signings were horrible investments. As were Hardy, Cole, Lee, and on and on and on. The people that care about Punk, Bryan et. al. were already tuned in to AEW week after week. AEW needs to stop trying to be WWE lite and instead focus on creating & building new stars.


They were good signings. I think Punk has been used correctly - he’s put over MJF and is about to put over Page potentially. Danielson they originally got it right when he put over Page (in one of the best “short” AEW feuds of all time IMO. Danielson was an entertaining dickhead. 

But this BCCC is ultra ass. They put together 3 guys - Moxley, Regal and Danielson - in order to put 1 man over (Yuta). Doesn’t seem very cost effective to me.


----------



## TD Stinger




----------



## RainmakerV2

So basically they need BBT to do 900k. Lol.


----------



## La Parka

TD Stinger said:


>


Jeeeeez.

Not a single thing got to 900k?


----------



## Mr316

But….but…the lead in doesn’t matter right? 😂

I’ve been saying it for weeks. BBT have been helping AEW’s numbers a lot.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

Ouch, AEW continues to bleed viewers. It's almost as if people aren't a fans of strictly wrestling and aren't interested in watching NXT castoffs and washed up wrestlers like Jeff Hardy. It's also because people don't care about ROH/NJPW. It's sad how far AEW has fallen.


----------



## omaroo

No excuses it was a terrible show and one of their worst for quite some time.

I'm not sure if TK will learn from this or actually think there were some positives.

I'm not gona dwell on the ratings as they go up and down every week with AEW.

But if they don't actually start having proper builds and meaningful stories for the matches instead of random matches which serve no purpose like this week then you have to accept the ratings will be below the average and may end up becoming the norm if AEW isn't careful.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

bdon said:


> _cough_ They miss Omega more than anyone wants to admit. _cough_


It's no coincidence the product took a nosedive as soon as he left.


----------



## DammitChrist

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> Ouch, AEW continues to bleed viewers. It's almost as if people aren't a fans of strictly wrestling and aren't interested in watching NXT castoffs and washed up wrestlers like Jeff Hardy. It's also because people don't care about ROH/NJPW. It's sad how far AEW has fallen.


Sure, the company has 'fallen' even though their ppv buyrates have been consistently very high since last September, and the pre-sale for Forbidden Door has already been sold out apparently.


----------



## Mr316

Trump: I could shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters.

Tony Khan: I could book Deonna vs Martinez as a Dynamite main event and AEW marks would still kiss my ass and call me booker of the year.

Congrats marks.


----------



## Garty

Mr316 said:


> Trump: I could shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters.
> 
> Tony Khan: I could book Deonna vs Martinez as a Dynamite main event and AEW marks would still kiss my ass and call me booker of the year.
> 
> Congrats marks.


What other match should have been the main-event then?


----------



## Mr316

Garty said:


> What other match should have been the main-event then?


Are you serious? He has like 65576565564 wrestlers on payroll. Anything else would have been better.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> Are you serious? He has like 65576565564 wrestlers on payroll. Anything else would have been better.


Nah, the main event also made sense with that card ahead of time.


----------



## Mr316

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, the main event also made sense with that card ahead of time.


The card sucked. The main event sucked. The show sucked.


----------



## Garty

Mr316 said:


> Are you serious? He has like 65576565564 wrestlers on payroll. Anything else would have been better.


That's a cop-out... out of the matches that took place LAST NIGHT, which one should have been the main-event?


----------



## La Parka

Garty said:


> That's a cop-out... out of the matches that took place LAST NIGHT, which one should have been the main-event?


Why would you limit it to the matches that took place? I'm pretty sure TK can make any match he wants.

Unless TK was being held at gunpoint and was forced to put on this shitty card and if that's the case, I retract my complaint and shall contact the proper authorities


----------



## Seafort

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> Ouch, AEW continues to bleed viewers. It's almost as if people aren't a fans of strictly wrestling and aren't interested in watching NXT castoffs and washed up wrestlers like Jeff Hardy. It's also because people don't care about ROH/NJPW. It's sad how far AEW has fallen.


AEW was creatively nimble in 2019 and 2020. They were experimental. They threw stuff against the wall. They built no name talent into brands within AEW.

That has gone away in favor of signing established NXT stars that have questionable ceilings. And I’ll go so far as to say that losing Cody kind of took the soul out of the company; he was kind of the face of AEW as the rebel upstart promotion. Almost as if Paul Heyman and Tommy Dreamer if they both left ECW for one of the big two promotions.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Garty said:


> That's a cop-out... out of the matches that took place LAST NIGHT, which one should have been the main-event?


Garty it is pretty clear if you look at the ratings that nothing drew. It doesn’t matter what the main event was.

The show was missable and the ratings reflect it.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

ADAM COLE'S FOREHEAD IS GETTING THAT DOUBLE SIZED GROWTH THIS WEEK BAY BAY!!

Seriously though I'm seeing people on Reddit blaming the Roe V Wade stuff in the low ratings.....fuck me dead 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## 3venflow

Hour one did quite well I think, considering the NBA competition. The last two quarters handicapped the show badly in both the 18-49 and P2+ metrics. There's been a trend with most wrestling shows lately of a sharp decline near the end, so while it's easy to blame the women (and a better main event might have fared better), this isn't unusual of late in AEW or WWE.

Rise of Skywalker was the lead-in rather than TBBT this week and that's a much lower Q1 than normal. I expect an increase in both AEW and WWE ratings in June when the NBA playoffs end.

Last year when the playoffs were on, Dynamite was shifted around for weeks and drew between 0.19 and 0.22/460k and 550k for an entire month, so not being preempted is helping this year.


----------



## Mr316

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> ADAM COLE'S FOREHEAD IS GETTING THAT DOUBLE SIZED GROWTH THIS WEEK BAY BAY!!
> 
> Seriously though I'm seeing people on Reddit blaming the Roe V Wade stuff in the low ratings.....fuck me dead 🤣🤣🤣


Tony Khan could book a show with absolutely nothing happening for 2 hours. Just fans staring at the ring and AEW marks would blame something else for the ratings.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Weak number this week, no doubt. Quarters mostly consistent but nothing really did well, just mediocre all around.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Mr316 said:


> Tony Khan could book a show with absolutely nothing happening for 2 hours. Just fans staring at the ring and AEW marks would blame something else for the ratings.


I mean to be fair.....it was an abortion of a show.....


----------



## Dr. Middy

The surprising thing was how even it seems, there wasn't any huge gains or losses throughout the entire show with the exception of the women's title match near the end which I expected to happen.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I mean to be fair.....it was an abortion of a show.....


Nah, the show was a fun one


----------



## DaSlacker

They'll edge up and down by 250,000 viewers until they run with a huge angle or WWE reduces their TV hours. Might need both tbf. 650,000 - 1 million is their core in a decent timeslot. About 50% of WWE Raw. You have to think AEW will edge downwards as WWE does.


----------



## chronoxiong

AEW is failing to keep me interested weekly. The ROH stuff is too random for me as well


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

chronoxiong said:


> AEW is failing to keep me interested weekly. The ROH stuff is too random for me as well


Facts, ROH and NJPW are boringgg


----------



## DammitChrist

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> Facts, ROH and *NJPW are boringgg*


Huh?

Name 10 NJPW matches that you’ve watched (that doesn’t involve the 4 AEW shows).


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

DammitChrist said:


> *Huh?
> 
> Name 10 NJPW matches that you’ve watched (that doesn’t involve
> AEW shows).*


None because it would put me to sleep


----------



## Hotdiggity11

AEW is currently in a creative rut outside of a few storylines. They’ve hired various talents and quickly grew bored of utilizing them on a regular basis. Matches like Trios are just clusterfucks that just result in constant spotfests.

You can accept it and hope it improves or be in denial and just blame the NBA.


----------



## DammitChrist

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> None because it would put me to sleep


Okay, so that input doesn’t sound reliable then since you don’t watch any of it


----------



## The real Axel

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, the show was a fun one


"Show was fun" is Dubbalo-speak for "Not good but must defend AEW at all costs"


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> WRESTLING draws


*This aged horrifically 🤣🤣🤣🤣

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522303265760759810
This is the ultimate nail in the coffin for everyone pushing meaningless wrestling for the last 3 years. STORYLINES draw. GREAT PROMOS draw. Not useless superkick spamming flippy Indy bullshit.*


----------



## Tobiyama

Deonna vs Mercedes was the biggest problem with the show. They could have put on a 5-star match, but I wouldn't have cared. I don't know them.


----------



## DammitChrist

WRESTLING is the reason why the Forbidden Door ppv has apparently been sold out already with their pre-sales, and why their ppv buyrates have remained very high since last September (with recent ppvs that focus on wrestling at least 95% of the time).

Preference for workrate/wrestling is also the reason why Dax Harwood vs Cash Wheeler saw an increase in viewership for their match last week on Dynamite for the remainder of it.

It's easy to pick and choose a week by making a flawed argument that wrestling 'kills' viewership when 1 of the highest rated quarterly segments in AEW's short history so far is the Elimination match with Adam Page/Dark Order vs the Elite, or when there's been multiple other examples of wrestling contests seeing an increase in viewership such as the first Adam Page vs Bryan Danielson match too long ago.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *This aged horrifically 🤣🤣🤣🤣
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522303265760759810
> This is the ultimate nail in the coffin for everyone pushing meaningless wrestling for the last 3 years. STORYLINES draw. GREAT PROMOS draw. Not useless superkick spamming flippy Indy bullshit.*


lol, you’re talking as if you didn’t know it will just go up next week again


----------



## elo

The shows are definitely going through the motions at the moment, with the NBA playoffs on a sister channel on Wednesday nights (TNT) there's no reason to put your best stuff to air when you're chasing the same demo. (that ~5k crowd in Baltimore got stiffed tbh) Title changes are coming at DoN and the NJPW invasion should steer it back around a million next month.


----------



## rbl85

Once the playoff are done it will be back around 1M (same for RAW but i don't know what ratings this show was doing before the playoff)


----------



## kingfunkel

Don't care what was on. If it clashed with the playoffs etc. This rating is deserved! The last 2 or 3 Dynamites have been shockingly bad. 
Went through a stage where they were putting on a decent show. Recently it opens up with something decent... Then just turns to shit and carries on like that to the end. Some have been hard to watch through to the end


----------



## InexorableJourney

Still not as low as the show with Eddie Kingston.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Good spot chart wise but terrible number.


----------



## Irish Jet

It is astounding that people didn't see this decline coming. It was brutally exposed when the yearly ratings moved past the days of NXT. I've given up on this shit and even with my insomnia I find better shit to do - MJF can only carry the show so far. I turned it on for 5 minutes the other night and there's the BCC doing the same routine they've been doing for over a month with people no one will care about. 

They had a golden opportunity to do something with heel Danielson - He's a guy who could have pulled off a 6 month title reign that gets people invested. You could have been building to the world title match with CM Punk and make it the biggest match in AEW history. The Page "feud" already pales in comparison to Punk's previous one. Instead you have Danielson as a mid card act doing the same routine with jobbers. Even if they're building to something that is the opposite of how you book a dominant stable - You have them start by taking out top guys so they actually put the roster on notice, they don't just say it. You have the title on a guy who looked less like a world champion with each passing week who's longest feud came against a midget that was beaten by a mascot. 

They burned out the nostalgia for Jeff Hardy in record time with quite possibly the worst booking imaginable. Again putting a potential star with people no one will ever care about, having him further destroy his body for absolutely no good reason. 

The booker is trash. The sooner the cult accept that the sooner there can be some pressure to implement some positive changes but they'll carry on cheering for garbage when they know themselves this shit can be so much better.


----------



## Damon Hen

It's not Adam Page and the Championship - its the stubborn, smarky, relentless style of late era TNA booking that's been prevalent since the start of the year. ROH, the wiener yuta push, the wwe disses and the regular 30 minute TV workrate matches that get praised non stop for their 'epicness'.

I dunno, the product feels like it has a chip on its shoulder and its a huge turn off.

There's no soul. The WWE guys are all having fun out there these days, the AEW guys just sound like bitter ex wives - reflects on the programming. 

Commentary sucks as well.


----------



## thorn123

I don’t spend much time worrying about ratings because it does my head in.
AEW is in a lull since the last ppv. Why do AEW viewers tune out with a bit of a lull, but fed viewers stay tuned in with the rubbish they serve up? I have watchEd WWE since the rumble, and after a sound wrestlemania it has been unwatchable yet they maintain viewers. Also, When AEW is on fire (most of the time since crowds have been back), AEW viewerships stays stagnant.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, you’re talking as if you didn’t know it will just go up next week again


*It has nowhere to go BUT up. That's what happens when you're abysmally below average after putting on a shit show 😂.*


----------



## Not Lying

Denying that AEW is growing at this point is stupid as fuck.
Tickets, merch, PPV buys, google trends, youtube views, it's mostly all up year on year.

Last year they weren't competing with the NBA playoffs during this time, now they're taking a hit, and it'll continue that way for a bit, The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills is back next week too which dominates in the demo, If they put on good shows they can get the numbers to be between 920-1m, if they put on shows like last night it'll be 800-900k. In July they'll bounce back. There's not much to do. What they should be doing is less ADHD booking and make us care about people by featuring them regularly not 1 week in 3 weeks out. 

Also, anyone thinking Punk/Bryan were bad investments is a moron. PPV buys tell all the difference before those 2.


----------



## Kishido

Bad numbers... But so had RAW


----------



## 3venflow

The Definition of Technician said:


> Denying that AEW is growing at this point is stupid as fuck.
> Tickets, merch, PPV buys, google trends, youtube views, it's mostly all up year on year.


Context and logic have no place in this thread, unfortunately. It's full of shitty hot-takes by the same circle of agenda-driven individuals. Notice the near silence in response to the AEW/NJPW ticket sales compared to the (expected and yearly) ratings drop against the NBA that is also affecting WWE (RAW has lost over 400,000 viewers since Mania with its demo dropping from 0.63 to 0.38). It's not an 'excuse' for either company, it's a yearly pattern going back eons.

People have created an imaginary benchmark and any deviations from it equals failure.

Back on topic and it sounds like Tony Khan is expecting an improved deal:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522536829404209153


----------



## Jedah

Again, with the exception of MJF/Wardlow and whatever Punk is doing, everything on the show feels midcard.

The world champ himself feels midcard and is treated like a midcard act since he never starts the show or main events.

Champion roster is very bad.

Blackpool Combat Club haven't progressed since Yuta joined them. Why aren't they moving toward tag title contention? Why is Jurassic Express in an afterthought of a feud with Team Taz?

Don't get me started on how cringe Thunder Rosa is. Hopefully Serena Deeb will elevate the women's title a bit but sadly she's likely to lose. Deeb isn't the ultimate answer but she at least has a real angle going on. Good enough for a transitional title reign.

Hell, it looks like they're about to drop the ball on MJF/Wardlow too by doing the match too early.

Said it before, but Tony needs to hire a real booker. He does not know what he's doing. There's now too much talent and too much going on with the other promotions, etc. so everything just gets dumped into a background cluster.

AEW is not in danger but it doesn't FEEL like a hot product anymore, in contrast to 2019 and last summer.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Irish Jet said:


> It is astounding that people didn't see this decline coming. It was brutally exposed when the yearly ratings moved past the days of NXT. I've given up on this shit and even with my insomnia I find better shit to do - MJF can only carry the show so far. I turned it on for 5 minutes the other night and there's the BCC doing the same routine they've been doing for over a month with people no one will care about.
> 
> They had a golden opportunity to do something with heel Danielson - He's a guy who could have pulled off a 6 month title reign that gets people invested. You could have been building to the world title match with CM Punk and make it the biggest match in AEW history. The Page "feud" already pales in comparison to Punk's previous one. Instead you have Danielson as a mid card act doing the same routine with jobbers. Even if they're building to something that is the opposite of how you book a dominant stable - You have them start by taking out top guys so they actually put the roster on notice, they don't just say it. You have the title on a guy who looked less like a world champion with each passing week who's longest feud came against a midget that was beaten by a mascot.
> 
> They burned out the nostalgia for Jeff Hardy in record time with quite possibly the worst booking imaginable. Again putting a potential star with people no one will ever care about, having him further destroy his body for absolutely no good reason.
> 
> The booker is trash. The sooner the cult accept that the sooner there can be some pressure to implement some positive changes but they'll carry on cheering for garbage when they know themselves this shit can be so much better.


*Exactly. Let's talk about how Dynamite's viewership is closer to NXT 2.0 - a show that consists of no name athletes with little to no wrestling experience, after signing the biggest free agents in wrestling, and after Jericho proclaiming last fall that they would be beating RAW in total viewership.

That tells you everything you need to know in regards to "wrestling drawing." No one ever gave a fuck about JUST the wrestling. The wrestling only means something if it's built with proper stories, angles, and promos. NXT does a fantastic job of that and Tony Khan just doesn't try at all because he thinks name value is enough to carry his shit show. Even the diehards on Twitter are growing tired of the meaningless matches.*


----------



## Gwi1890

Is there a number or statistics to how many viewers watch via Fite TV?


----------



## La Parka

3venflow said:


> Context and logic have no place in this thread, unfortunately. It's full of shitty hot-takes by the same circle of agenda-driven individuals. Notice the near silence in response to the AEW/NJPW ticket sales


Nobody is denying that AEW doesn’t sell tickets or that the ppv numbers aren’t decent. The reality is the TV show is pretty damn bad right now and the ratings haven’t reached a million since March and that’s WITH the two top free agents in the business and their competition moving to another night.

If anyone told you in 2020 they’d sign CM Punk and Bryan Danielson AND NXT would switch nights that they would still be doing the same numbers, people would be completely baffled.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> WRESTLING is the reason why the Forbidden Door ppv has apparently been sold out already with their pre-sales, and why their ppv buyrates have remained very high since last September (with recent ppvs that focus on wrestling at least 95% of the time).
> 
> Preference for workrate/wrestling is also the reason why Dax Harwood vs Cash Wheeler saw an increase in viewership for their match last week on Dynamite for the remainder of it.
> 
> It's easy to pick and choose a week by making a flawed argument that wrestling 'kills' viewership when 1 of the highest rated quarterly segments in AEW's short history so far is the Elimination match with Adam Page/Dark Order vs the Elite, or when there's been multiple other examples of wrestling contests seeing an increase in viewership such as the first Adam Page vs Bryan Danielson match too long ago.


Then why don't people want to actually watch the show live?



The Definition of Technician said:


> Also, anyone thinking Punk/Bryan were bad investments is a moron. PPV buys tell all the difference before those 2.


They aren't bad investments, but anybody saying they thought AEW would be doing under a million viewers with both is a god damn lie. Punk return is considered one of the biggest returns in wrestling history. Yet it's not really showing in ratings and then you got fans celebrating PPV buys that would have you considered a flop champion if this was graded on the UFC scale. 



3venflow said:


> Context and logic have no place in this thread, unfortunately. It's full of shitty hot-takes by the same circle of agenda-driven individuals. Notice the near silence in response to the AEW/NJPW ticket sales compared to the (expected and yearly) ratings drop against the NBA that is also affecting WWE (RAW has lost over 400,000 viewers since Mania with its demo dropping from 0.63 to 0.38). It's not an 'excuse' for either company, it's a yearly pattern going back eons.
> 
> People have created an imaginary benchmark and any deviations from it equals failure.
> 
> Back on topic and it sounds like Tony Khan is expecting an improved deal:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522536829404209153


No it's an excuse, everytime Dynamite underperforms there's an excuse about how "well other TV exists, so it's not really their fault". They do good ticket sales and decent PPVs. But the ratings are under performing. The reality is the AEW faithful stopped liking to talk TV ratings when beating the shit out of NXT was no longer able to prop up the ratings. WWE can sell the fuck out of a show too, but nobody fails to mention that they consistently lose live viewers on TV. Matter of fact WWE's overall business success is consistently downplayed as a "well that's because TV executives and the Saudi's are dumb". AEW is getting the treatment any major promotion would get.


----------



## 3venflow

La Parka said:


> Nobody is denying that AEW doesn’t sell tickets or that the ppv numbers aren’t decent. The reality is the TV show is pretty damn bad right now and the ratings haven’t reached a million since March and that’s WITH the two top free agents in the business and their competition moving to another night.


The 'million' is that imaginary benchmark. This is not what AEW and Warner are fixated on, nor are most networks, otherwise Smackdown would be a cancellation risk because it regularly finishes below its competition in P2+ (total viewers) but always ranks high (often wins) in P18-49.

Friday's chart below shows Smackdown 'losing' to everything but the CW in network primetime, but in the eyes of FOX, they ranked joint third (+ there was the NBA on cable doing big numbers).










Cable is losing subscribers therefore viewership numbers will naturally drop, as they have for most shows. When AEW Dynamite debuted, there were roughly 83 million people with a cable sub. Currently there are roughly 76 million with a cable sub. That is -7 million or around an 8.5% drop in cable subscribers and I'd bet if you compared the majority of cable shows from 2019 until now, they're all doing lower total viewerships. RAW was still hitting 2.5m around the time Dynamite launched and is now averaging in the 1.6 to 1.7m range.

If I moved my sports team from a city of 5 million people to a city of 2.5 million people, I wouldn't be surprised if fewer people turn out for games. And we're often talking a mere 20,000 people (not that Nielsen ratings are totally accurate anyway and the shows ALWAYS top a million with +3 day DVRs) that somehow separares 'success' and 'failure' because people have this thing in their head where seven digits = success and six digits = failure.

The most objective chart to judge a show's current success by is where it ranks in the Nielsen ratings every week. Brandon Thurston estimates Dynamite to be worth +4.9x times its current value based on its performances.


----------



## Dr. Middy

I do wonder if any other industry judges successes using such an old format like this. I mean even the music industry has moved past CD sales. Like WWE's ratings clearly are falling and have been for years yet they keep generating record revenues, continually get bigger somehow, and secure massive TV deals. So by all measures they are still wildly successful, yet if you simply looked at television ratings alone, we'd all call them failures if we were consistent. Same goes for pretty much most television shows if compared with similar shows 10+ years ago, or virtually most live sports save for the Superbowl. And I thought about this even before AEW existed.

I'm 100% sure I'll just be labeled as making excuses, but this does seem interesting no?


----------



## DaSlacker

This is the content era. You're not going to get weekly killer must see shows each week. It's a PC world of franchises and on demand box sets. You're going to get lots and lots of in ring action and big rosters and address the audience promos. A promo or feud might resonate, occasionally.


----------



## Randy Lahey

TD Stinger said:


>


Lead in was super low and nobody wanted to watch the women at the end


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*@Dr. Middy it's not the same because AEW doesn't have multi billion dollar TV deals, 50 million dollars quarterly from Saudi Arabia, or a single PPV remotely comparable to WrestleMania. They're not even profitable right now, let alone achieving record high profits like WWE. The bottom line is most people on both sides expected AEW to be doing 1.2-1.3 million viewers regularly with the addition of Punk and Bryan, they hit it once on Bryan's Dynamite debut, and they've been on a massive decline since. It's a failure any way you look at it. *


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Legit Lioness said:


> *@Dr. Middy it's not the same because AEW doesn't have multi billion dollar TV deals, 50 million dollars quarterly from Saudi Arabia, or a single PPV remotely comparable to WrestleMania. They're not even profitable right now, let alone achieving record high profits like WWE. The bottom line is most people on both sides expected AEW to be doing 1.2-1.3 million viewers regularly with the addition of Punk and Bryan, they hit it once on Bryan's Dynamite debut, and they've been on a massive decline since. It's a failure any way you look at it. *


Okay, so in it's current state, the entirety of AEW should be considered a failure. 

If they do get a major increase come their next television deal, would they also be considered a failure still if the ratings can't increase past a million or so.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dr. Middy said:


> Okay, so in it's current state, the entirety of AEW should be considered a failure.
> 
> If they do get a major increase come their next television deal, would they also be considered a failure still if the ratings can't increase past a million or so.


*No, but we're talking about right now. When you look at what they've spent, the names they've acquired, and the fact that they're doing mediocre Wednesday Night Wars numbers in spite of all of those roster additions, it's a massive failure.*


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Legit Lioness said:


> *No, but we're talking about right now. When you look at what they've spent, the names they've acquired, and the fact that they're doing mediocre Wednesday Night Wars numbers in spite of all of those roster additions, it's a massive failure.*


Okay, was just curious is all where some of yall stand on that. 

Hopefully they are spending still if they seem confident enough that they'll get a big increase in their next deal. The worst possible outcome is if the new business plan for Warnermedia leads to a small increase or a non-renewal to where they have to downgrade.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522593488252162052

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

The Definition of Technician said:


> Denying that AEW is growing at this point is stupid as fuck.
> Tickets, merch, PPV buys, google trends, youtube views, it's mostly all up year on year.
> 
> Last year they weren't competing with the NBA playoffs during this time, now they're taking a hit, and it'll continue that way for a bit, The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills is back next week too which dominates in the demo, If they put on good shows they can get the numbers to be between 920-1m, if they put on shows like last night it'll be 800-900k. In July they'll bounce back. There's not much to do. What they should be doing is less ADHD booking and make us care about people by featuring them regularly not 1 week in 3 weeks out.
> 
> Also, anyone thinking Punk/Bryan were bad investments is a moron. PPV buys tell all the difference before those 2.





3venflow said:


> Context and logic have no place in this thread, unfortunately. It's full of shitty hot-takes by the same circle of agenda-driven individuals. Notice the near silence in response to the AEW/NJPW ticket sales compared to the (expected and yearly) ratings drop against the NBA that is also affecting WWE (RAW has lost over 400,000 viewers since Mania with its demo dropping from 0.63 to 0.38). It's not an 'excuse' for either company, it's a yearly pattern going back eons.
> 
> People have created an imaginary benchmark and any deviations from it equals failure.
> 
> Back on topic and it sounds like Tony Khan is expecting an improved deal:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522536829404209153


I can always count on you to bring in some logical facts/statistics in order to further prove how successful they’ve been over the past year.

Hell, even Smackdown finally dipped down under 2 million viewers over the past couple of weeks. I STILL think 1.9+ million viewers is still too high for them since that show.

However, I still don’t get why NXT 2.0 was even brought up earlier when that show is regularly under 600 K viewers when there aren’t specials nor any main roster talents used to carry that mediocre show (which is down 100K viewers compared to most of the Indy NXT episodes from last year).

Anyway, what both of you brought up here are perfectly valid reasons for this week’s number, and shouldn’t be labeled as excuses


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522593488252162052
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*Thunder Rosa vs. Serena is another prime example of WRASSLIN not drawing. Look at that pathetic number. No one is interested in this feud because they can't sell a match with their awful promos. It doesn't even matter that they're two of the best workers. A botch filled Jade match will garner more interest, simply because she feels like a star.*


----------



## DammitChrist

I guarantee that Thunder Rosa and Serena Deeb will be among the most talked-about women after Double or Nothing since the majority of the audience appreciate great wrestling.


----------



## .christopher.

ClintDagger said:


> Those two signings were horrible investments. As were Hardy, Cole, Lee, and on and on and on. The people that care about Punk, Bryan et. al. were already tuned in to AEW week after week. AEW needs to stop trying to be WWE lite and instead focus on creating & building new stars.


I tend to agree with the majority of your posts but have to disagree here, chief. I don't think they (Punk and Bryan) were horrible investments or that everyone that cared about them were already watching. After they both joined, AEW gained a few hundred thousand more viewers, and a Bryan segment reached a record high viewership.

The problem is what they saw when they tuned in. The evidence was there that a few hundred thousand more people were willing to try AEW due to them joining, but were ran off in no time by not only 90% of the show being a jabroni fest, but the fact that you had both Punk and Bryan demeaning themselves by wrestling COMPETITIVE matches with jobbers on tv week in, week out


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

.christopher. said:


> I tend to agree with the majority of your posts but have to disagree here, chief. I don't think they (Punk and Bryan) were horrible investments or that everyone that cared about them were already watching. After they both joined, AEW gained a few hundred thousand more viewers, and a Bryan segment reached a record high viewership.
> 
> The problem is what they saw when they tuned in. The evidence was there that a few hundred thousand more people were willing to try AEW due to them joining, but were ran off in no time by not only 90% of the show being a jabroni fest, but the fact that you had both Punk and Bryan demeaning themselves by wrestling COMPETITIVE matches with jobbers on tv week in, week out


*Tony Khan had the nerve to call a card with THIS match on it, the most stacked Dynamite ever:









If you ever needed a visual demonstration of why Punk and Bryan signings have failed to sustain new viewership, look no further.*


----------



## Brodus Clay

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522593488252162052
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Holy shit Tony better save some money because WWE gonna try to get both Wardlow and MJF


----------



## .christopher.

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Tony Khan had the nerve to call a card with THIS match on it, the most stacked Dynamite ever:
> View attachment 121895
> 
> 
> If you ever needed a visual demonstration of why Punk and Bryan signings have failed to sustain new viewership, look no further.*


Just terrible. They actually had Bryan run from the ring away from that jabroni, too.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

.christopher. said:


> Just terrible. They actually had Bryan run from the ring away from that jabroni, too.


*Tony Khan doesn't realize how hard he booked himself into a corner on day 1 by proclaiming he won't use DQs. Now you have to use complete jobbers to give definitive finishes every week, which removes all suspense from your matches, and makes fans care even less. If he actually knew how to book storylines instead of pointless wrestling, it wouldn't be as big a problem. *


----------



## Wolf Mark

Amazing how Tony Khan keep pimpin' his shit and hyping and buying gazillion things and talking about big projects and the ratings are.....800 thousand.  😂🤣😭

The incompetence is greater than Dixie Carter at this point. At the very least TNA was exciting at one point.


----------



## DammitChrist

Wolf Mark said:


> Amazing how Tony Khan keep pimpin' his shit and hyping and buying gazillion things and talking about big projects and the ratings are.....800 thousand.  😂🤣😭
> 
> The incompetence is greater than Dixie Carter at this point. At the very least TNA was exciting at one point.


Yep, those high ppv buyrates and consistently positive reviews for the TV shows on *most* weeks (along with Forbidden Door being sold out very fast) totally scream incompetence.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Tony Khan…. Never has a guy who supposedly knows so little, achieved so much

its almost a ‘Ripley‘s believe it or not’ scenario


----------



## Wolf Mark

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, those high ppv buyrates and consistently positive reviews for the TV shows on *most* weeks (along with Forbidden Door being sold out very fast) totally scream incompetence.


Positive Reviews? What the Hell does that mean? lol And they have a limited amount of PPV shows.


----------



## Wolf Mark

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Tony Khan…. Never has a guy who supposedly knows so little, achieved so much
> 
> its almost a ‘Ripley‘s believe it or not’ scenario


Achieve what? Losing 90 million a year.


----------



## omaroo

Wolf Mark said:


> Achieve what? Losing 90 million a year.


Really?

You got proof for such a "factual" statement?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Wolf Mark said:


> Achieve what? Losing 90 million a year.


how is your position as CFO of AEW going these days?

sorting good tax breaks or nah?


----------



## Randy Lahey

Posted this in the Raw Ratings thread but it’s just as relevant here. AEW Dynamite has closed the gap substantially with Raw over the last 2 years in the Demo:


May 18-20, 2020
Raw: 0.51
Dynamite: 0.26

May 10-13 2021
Raw: 0.53
Dynamite: 0.31

May 17-20 2021
Raw: 0.48
Dynamite: 0.28

May 2-5 2022
Raw: 0.38
Dynamite: 0.32

Most of the gap closure is from Raw losing viewers which in this environment, if AEW can maintain theirs - is a win.


----------



## The real Axel

Dubbalo Defence Force working overtime this week. I've said it once I'll say it again. Just like WWE, bad show = bad ratings. Lift your game AEW, only wrestling nerds care about NJPW and this forbidden door garbage. Don't get me started on ROH.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> The 'million' is that imaginary benchmark. This is not what AEW and Warner are fixated on, nor are most networks, otherwise Smackdown would be a cancellation risk because it regularly finishes below its competition in P2+ (total viewers) but always ranks high (often wins) in P18-49.
> 
> Friday's chart below shows Smackdown 'losing' to everything but the CW in network primetime, but in the eyes of FOX, they ranked joint third (+ there was the NBA on cable doing big numbers).
> 
> View attachment 121873
> 
> 
> Cable is losing subscribers therefore viewership numbers will naturally drop, as they have for most shows. When AEW Dynamite debuted, there were roughly 83 million people with a cable sub. Currently there are roughly 76 million with a cable sub. That is -7 million or around an 8.5% drop in cable subscribers and I'd bet if you compared the majority of cable shows from 2019 until now, they're all doing lower total viewerships. RAW was still hitting 2.5m around the time Dynamite launched and is now averaging in the 1.6 to 1.7m range.
> 
> If I moved my sports team from a city of 5 million people to a city of 2.5 million people, I wouldn't be surprised if fewer people turn out for games. And we're often talking a mere 20,000 people (not that Nielsen ratings are totally accurate anyway and the shows ALWAYS top a million with +3 day DVRs) that somehow separares 'success' and 'failure' because people have this thing in their head where seven digits = success and six digits = failure.
> 
> The most objective chart to judge a show's current success by is where it ranks in the Nielsen ratings every week. Brandon Thurston estimates Dynamite to be worth +4.9x times its current value based on its performances.


It's not an imaginary benchmark it's just not finding every which way to explain how a wrestling show with Punk, Bryan, Moxley, Jericho, The Bucks, Cole, The Hardys, and Sting frequently appearing failing to draw a million viewers is totally cool. When TNA did meh ratings despite the names they got rightfully mocked. AEW isn't going avoid getting slack for having all this talent and failing to convince more people to watch the show. When they do weeks of good viewership they should get praise. When they do weeks of bad viewership they should be criticized. Raw consistently drops viewers and folk acknowledge that despite the good business they do.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> It's not an imaginary benchmark it's just not finding every which way to explain how a wrestling show with Punk, Bryan, Moxley, Jericho, The Bucks, Cole, The Hardys, and Sting frequently appearing failing to draw a million viewers is totally cool. When TNA did meh ratings despite the names that got rightfully mocked. AEW isn't going avoid getting slack for having all this talent and failing to convince more people to watch the show. When they do weeks of good viewership they should get praise. When they do weeks of bad viewership they should be criticized. Raw consistently drops viewers and folk acknowledge that despite the good business they do.


*Exactly. WWE is more financially successful than ever in spite of bad ratings. AEW has nothing to show for all this money spent on every remotely relevant free agent and a whole promotion. Ratings have plummeted since the purchase of ROH. 

Dixie got shit for putting on awful shows with the likes of Kurt Angle, Scott Steiner, Kevin Nash, Booker T, Sting, RVD, Ric Flair, Mick Foley, Hulk Hogan, Jeff Hardy, AJ Styles, and Samoa Joe, so you're damn right AEW is getting shit for tanking ratings after signing every Indy guy you've ever wanted.*


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Exactly. WWE is more financially successful than ever in spite of bad ratings. AEW has nothing to show for all this money spent on every remotely relevant free agent and a whole promotion. Ratings have plummeted since the purchase of ROH.
> 
> Dixie got shit for putting on awful shows with the likes of Kurt Angle, Scott Steiner, Kevin Nash, Booker T, Sting, RVD, Ric Flair, Mick Foley, Hulk Hogan, Jeff Hardy, AJ Styles, and Samoa Joe, so you're damn right AEW is getting shit for tanking ratings after signing every Indy guy you've ever wanted.*


In the spirit of NBA Playoff season, the best way to put it is AEW is getting the flack a perennial MVP candidate would get if they had a long stretch of putting up perennial All-Star stats. Basically they being James Harden right now [emoji23].


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> In the spirit of NBA Playoff season, the best way to put it is AEW is getting the flack a perennial MVP candidate would get if they had a long stretch of putting up perennial All-Star stats. Basically they being James Harden right now [emoji23].


*I'll do you one better-KD. They claim to be the best wrestling promotion in the world, but eliminated themselves in the first round.*


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I'll do you one better-KD. They claim to be the best wrestling promotion in the world, but eliminated themselves in the first round.*


Only reason I wouldn't agree to KD is because at least his disappearance was 4 games lol. We all been looking for James Harden James Harden for months.


----------



## DammitChrist

Either AEW or NJPW *is* the best wrestling promotion of the world.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Basketball is the one thats almost like netball, right?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Hoooo boy...



Mr316 said:


> Tony Khan could book a show with absolutely nothing happening for 2 hours. Just fans staring at the ring and AEW marks would blame something else for the ratings.


I've said this before, haha.

"Dynamite was a lot of fun this week, did you see the fan in row 4? The ratings were only 75,000 because of the Ukraine situation!"



DammitChrist said:


> Huh?
> 
> Name 10 NJPW matches that you’ve watched (that doesn’t involve the 4 AEW shows).


I watch a lot of Japanese wrestling, I really like the style but even I can admit that it would be a turn off or boring to some.

It's my go to for good wrestling but when I want story I wouldn't go there.



DammitChrist said:


> WRESTLING is the reason why the Forbidden Door ppv has apparently been sold out already with their pre-sales, and why their ppv buyrates have remained very high since last September (with recent ppvs that focus on wrestling at least 95% of the time).
> 
> Preference for workrate/wrestling is also the reason why Dax Harwood vs Cash Wheeler saw an increase in viewership for their match last week on Dynamite for the remainder of it.
> 
> It's easy to pick and choose a week by making a flawed argument that wrestling 'kills' viewership when 1 of the highest rated quarterly segments in AEW's short history so far is the Elimination match with Adam Page/Dark Order vs the Elite, or when there's been multiple other examples of wrestling contests seeing an increase in viewership such as the first Adam Page vs Bryan Danielson match too long ago.


The forbidden door event has sold out quickly because it is fresh and new, a first time ever event that will feature the biggest stars of wrestling outside of WWE. Nobody would buy the event if it was just a bunch of good wrestling matches without significant starpower.

Similar to when AEW debuts a new big name, everyone is very excited for the first month or so and then it slowly starts dying down.



thorn123 said:


> I don’t spend much time worrying about ratings because it does my head in.
> AEW is in a lull since the last ppv. Why do AEW viewers tune out with a bit of a lull, but fed viewers stay tuned in with the rubbish they serve up? I have watchEd WWE since the rumble, and after a sound wrestlemania it has been unwatchable yet they maintain viewers. Also, When AEW is on fire (most of the time since crowds have been back), AEW viewerships stays stagnant.


Because the WWE audience likes what they're dishing out, WWE isn't aimed at people like us, nobody gives a fuck if there is a 5 star match or not on WWE TV.

Every smart mark here might think WWE sucks but for every one of you here there is a casual fan who loves watching WWE every week and can't get enough.



3venflow said:


> Context and logic have no place in this thread, unfortunately. It's full of shitty hot-takes by the same circle of agenda-driven individuals. Notice the near silence in response to the AEW/NJPW ticket sales


I think everyone expected AEW/NJPW to sell out.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Tony Khan…. Never has a guy who supposedly knows so little, achieved so much
> 
> its almost a ‘Ripley‘s believe it or not’ scenario


I hate this take.

First, what is Tony's education in the wrestling business? A quick Wikipedia search (I know...I know) shows that his start in the wrestling business was in late 2018 when he filed trademarks for AEW and then he ran a show like 6 months later without any experience.

His TV ratings haven't really grown except for slight boosts due to big name signings or other factors outside of his control (Such as NXT moving away from Wednesday). He hasn't steadily grown an audience or really done too much of anything to try and grow the product.

He doesn't really know how to pivot when things are going wrong either, for example Hangman Page seems to be a flop of a champion but Tony has it written in the book that Punk is taking the belt at Double Or Nothing and that has to remain the case despite Hangman's run being entirely too long for an upper midcard babyface.

Most of the success Tony has got has come down to contacts and money. I've said this a thousand times before but we could give say... @DammitChrist a hundred million dollars and a billionaire for a father and odds are he could achieve just as much as Tony Khan has. DC would've got the TNT deal if Shad Khan was his dad, DC would've eventually gotten the NJPW deal, he would've signed the likes of Danielson, Jericho and Punk also.

Away from having significant bankroll Tony Khan is not a special guy. He is good for the wrestling business solely based on his money alone but AEW will never reach its full potential with him in charge of creative and him being so actively involved in it.


----------



## 3venflow

RapShepard said:


> It's not an imaginary benchmark it's just not finding every which way to explain how a wrestling show with Punk, Bryan, Moxley, Jericho, The Bucks, Cole, The Hardys, and Sting frequently appearing failing to draw a million viewers is totally cool.


Yes it is an imaginary benchmark because it's not a do-or-die number nor is there any suggestion whatsoever that it is meaningful. It's simply a concept created by people hereabouts to try and define success vs. failure without any real knowledge of the how the TV industry is working in 2022. People who don't really know better need simplified concepts to try and understand something, which is why you'll get people respond to a 982,000 rating with 'disappointing!' yet react to 1,000,001 rating with 'good!' despite the difference actually being negligible and irrelevant.

Yesterday's NHL playoffs on TBS drew 1,003,000 and 793,000 in total viewership, while ranking one and two in the Nielsen charts with 0.35 and 0.33 (similar to Dynamite).

Really, what it comes down to is.

1. How is the show ranking in comparison to other shows in the Nielsen ratings? (Answer: usually top 5 out of 3000+ shows)
2. Is its performance enough to warrant an increase in rights fees or the opposite? (Answer: Overwhelming evidence suggests an increase, with Brandon Thurston estimating it is worth +4.9x its current worth but obviously a lot of variables are in play)

So if they sign a double-your-money deal with Warner or someone else next time, it doesn't matter what you or anyone else says on here - the show is successful. If Warner say 'top five is not good enough!' and no one else enters the bidding, forcing AEW off TV for a while, then the show is not performing well enough. Which do you really think its likely to be?

And once again, the rapid decline of cable subscribers is being ignored like it somehow doesn't matter. We're talking millions upon millions of people dropping cable. History shows that AEW is most compelling to the 18-49 demographic and very unpopular with the 50+ demographic (which is the demo that props up WWE's viewership). The 18-49 demographic has migrated en masse to streaming, which is why the networks are so desperate to retain anything that DOES rank high in that metric (even Rhodes to the Top was considered successful and was on course for a season two before Cody jumped).

But hey, if dumbed down concepts make it easier, there's nothing I can say or do to convince you otherwise. Any business analyst would tell you AEW is doing well and is likely to see an improved TV deal. Hell, Bischoff had an NBC guy on his podcast expecting him to trash AEW, and he did the opposite. AEW also has two, maybe three, one million dollar gates coming up (DoN, The Forum, Forbidden Door) and there has not been demand for tickets like this (they could have sold 30,000 tickets for the AEW/NJPW show without even a hint of a card announcement) for any non-WWE promotion since ca. 1999 WCW, so obviously they're doing something right.


----------



## CovidFan

I do find it intriguing and a bit funny that the arbitrary number's always been one million because that's all it is, an arbitrary number. And we all know it's for the simple fact that there's an extra digit at the end of it. Having that one extra digit doesn't define success or failure for the show. The show's success is based on other factors (see the post above). It can be disappointing for fans or used to throw insults at the company/fan boys but in no way does it define success/failure.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> *Yes it is an imaginary benchmark because it's not a do-or-die number nor is there any suggestion whatsoever that it is meaningful. It's simply a concept created by people hereabouts to try and define success vs. failure without any real knowledge of the how the TV industry is working in 2022. People who don't really know better need simplified concepts to try and understand something, which is why you'll get people respond to a 982,000 rating with 'disappointing!' yet react to 1,000,001 rating with 'good!' despite the difference actually being negligible and irrelevant.*
> 
> But hey, if dumbed down concepts make it easier, there's nothing I can say or do to convince you otherwise.




This is you below being very estactic about a match being seen by a million people last week. 




3venflow said:


> Very happy to see a million people got to see that love letter to pro wrestling between FTR. The only QH that gained in both metrics other than the main event, so in that sense the match was well placed.


Why was this million number that is meaningless a big deal to you last week? I mean after all last week they were still doing good business and TV execs would've appreciated the good demo regardless. So why this week is a million viewers something you're dismissive about?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> This is you below being very estactic about a match being seen by a million people last week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why was this million number that is meaningless a big deal to you last week? I mean after all last week they were still doing good business and TV execs would've appreciated the good demo regardless. So why this week is a million viewers something you're dismissive about?


*You have the best "This you?" posts on the forum 😂*


----------



## .christopher.

RapShepard said:


> This is you below being very estactic about a match being seen by a million people last week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why was this million number that is meaningless a big deal to you last week? I mean after all last week they were still doing good business and TV execs would've appreciated the good demo regardless. So why this week is a million viewers something you're dismissive about?


It's very simple. Thr hardcores shift the goal posts based on their agenda. Everyone knows AEW should be getting AT LEAST 1m viewers. They were getting that for a few consecutive weeks on tnt (which the hardcores said was a worse channel than tbs) and before signing the two biggest free agents out there for millions. Not to mention they basically took their competitions main act in the undisputed era.

Look back at the celebrations when AEW got a million after I think Sting's debut. Just look.


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit Lioness said:


> *You have the best "This you?" posts on the forum [emoji23]*


And tbf I get opinions and shit change. But come on lol



.christopher. said:


> It's very simple. Thr hardcores shift the goal posts based on their agenda. Everyone knows AEW should be getting AT LEAST 1m viewers. They were getting that for a few consecutive weeks on tnt (which the hardcores said was a worse channel than tbs) and before signing the two biggest free agents out there for millions. Not to mention they basically took their competitions main act in the undisputed era.
> 
> Look back at the celebrations when AEW got a million after I think Sting's debut. Just look.


I even get the idea that "they're top 10 most weeks they're doing fine", which is true. Most weeks I say the same sentiment. But at the same time it has to be okay to acknowledge you can both do well and underperform at the same time. For them to have all that star power and critical acclaim you'd think more would tune in.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> And tbf I get opinions and shit change. But come on lol
> 
> 
> 
> I even get the idea that "they're top 10 most weeks they're doing fine", which is true. Most weeks I say the same sentiment. But at the same time it has to be okay to acknowledge you can both do well and underperform at the same time. For them to have all that star power and critical acclaim you'd think more would tune in.


*I will bring this up every time they try to downplay how shitty the ratings are. Everyone on both sides thought they would be doing 1.2 to 1.3 mil CONSISTENTLY at this point, yet they're somehow doing worse than the summer of Britt with no major signings. Myself, @.christopher. and several others said if they don't capitalize on Bryan and put the belt on him expeditiously, ratings are going to tank, and here we are at 800 fucking K, 30 signings later.*


----------



## DammitChrist

I can't wait until they inevitably rise up to a million+ viewers again more often by continuing their usual good booking.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> I can't wait until they inevitably rise up to a million+ viewers again more often by continuing their usual good booking.


Have they finally signed a competent booker?


----------



## The real Axel

DammitChrist said:


> I can't wait until they inevitably rise up to a million+ viewers again more often by continuing their usual good booking.


----------



## 3venflow

RapShepard said:


> This is you below being very estactic about a match being seen by a million people last week.


Because it was a quick 'n' easy way to express how glad I was that an old school match grew rather than lost viewers, which is a rarity in Q1 -> Q2. It doesn't mean it would have been any less impressive if it rose to 999,999 viewers. And it also doesn't mean that P18-49 isn't still way more important than P2+, something Tony Khan and umpteen people in the industry have said time and time again.

Why not pick out my umpteen other posts in this very thread talking about how the P18-49 is more important than the P2+, something I've posted OVER AND OVER again, with evidence and citations?

And why ignore all the other points I've made (re: TV rights, cable's decline, the rankings and how it compares to other shows)? Instead we go for the ad hominen by implying I'm some sort of hypocrite, when I've been one of the most consistent posters in explaining what is most important with ratings.

Basically, you expect their total viewership to grow while fewer people have access to cable and/or watch by other means. You expect them to do what few to no shows are doing. That's why their 18-49 demo share (%) is more relevant because whether cable has 100m or 50m viewers, that share still comes out of 100%. They have swam against the tide better than most shows for a long time and are still very consistent. Look at RAW's post-Mania trend in comparison.

It's not even just the cord cutting, but fewer people watching things live now. AEW Dynamite _does_ have well over 1m viewers every week in America, just not live. Go and check Wade Keller's +3 day numbers in the PW Torch. Rampage is the most-watched +3 day wrestling show due to its timeslot.

Here's some March data for those obsessed by the million:



> In our tracking of 3-day viewership of Dynamite, the Feb. 23 episode drew 1.205 million, above the 1.156 million average the prior ten weeks. The Mar. 2 episode drew 1.090 million after three days.
> 
> In our tracking of day viewership of Dynamite, the Feb. 23 episode drew 1.231 million, above the 1.183 million average the prior ten weeks.


And it goes without saying that the NBA is affecting EVERYTHING right now and will do until after mid-June. Smackdown and RAW have done some recent record lows in both metrics.

In the end, facts don't care about feelings, so if AEW land an improved TV rights deal, you're wrong. If AEW struggle and see their TV rights cut, I'm wrong.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Hilarious that when the Demo numbers continue to narrow between Raw and Dynamite, the WWE bots chime in about “but what about total viewers. AEW is such a failure”.

The entire difference is that WWE has a giant over 50+ audience. It’s why NXT has the oldest audience to ever watch a wrestling show. NXT! A show supposedly marketed to casuals. Oldest audience to ever watch wrestling.

AEW will never compete against over 50s bc they’ve been on TV for 2.5 years, while Raw has been on TV for nearly 30 years. If you are over 50, you been watching Raw for a long time. You aren’t going to watch another wrestling show if you are used to your cyrreht show.

AEW is doing great in comparison to WWE in the only 3 metrics that matter: 18-49 demo (which determine TV rights feee), Live Gate Attendance, PPV buys. That’s it.

Facts are if you are over 50 and like womens wrestling, WWE is for you. If you are under 50 and don’t, it’s clear WWE is losing your attention.


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> Because it was a quick 'n' easy way to express how glad I was that an old school match grew rather than lost viewers, which is a rarity in Q1 -> Q2. It doesn't mean it would have been any less impressive if it rose to 999,999 viewers. And it also doesn't mean that P18-49 isn't still way more important than P2+, something Tony Khan and umpteen people in the industry have said time and time again.
> 
> Why not pick out my umpteen other posts in this very thread talking about how the P18-49 is more important than the P2+, something I've posted OVER AND OVER again, with evidence and citations?
> 
> And why ignore all the other points I've made (re: TV rights, cable's decline, the rankings and how it compares to other shows)? Instead we go for the ad hominen by implying I'm some sort of hypocrite, when I've been one of the most consistent posters in explaining what is most important with ratings.
> 
> Basically, you expect their total viewership to grow while fewer people have access to cable and/or watch by other means. You expect them to do what few to no shows are doing. That's why their 18-49 demo share (%) is more relevant because whether cable has 100m or 50m viewers, that share still comes out of 100%. They have swam against the tide better than most shows for a long time and are still very consistent. Look at RAW's post-Mania trend in comparison.
> 
> It's not even just the cord cutting, but fewer people watching things live now. AEW Dynamite _does_ have well over 1m viewers every week in America, just not live. Go and check Wade Keller's +3 day numbers in the PW Torch. Rampage is the most-watched +3 day wrestling show due to its timeslot.
> 
> Here's some March data for those obsessed by the million:
> 
> 
> 
> And it goes without saying that the NBA is affecting EVERYTHING right now and will do until after mid-June. Smackdown and RAW have done some recent record lows in both metrics.
> 
> In the end, facts don't care about feelings, so if AEW land an improved TV rights deal, you're wrong. If AEW struggle and see their TV rights cut, I'm wrong.



You get tracked down because every week no matter what the number is you have 5 paragraphs at the ready about how good it is. So you become the poster boy. The poster boy gets the darts thrown at him the most.


----------



## 3venflow

@RainmakerV2 Tracked down by whom? This is the first time in a while I can remember anyone coming after me personally bar one guy who completely misinterpreted a point I made about brand loyalty meaning swapping Reigns for a Marko Stunt wouldn't help AEW or hurt WWE much.

I will call a spade a spade and primarily judge AEW shows by their Nielsen ranking because that's the most objective way to do it (key metric + % share compared to everything else). And the fact is, AEW has been doing well in that department from day 1 unless preempted. Dynamite tends to always be near the top of those rankings and is still a good performer. That is where WWE also succeeds because its total viewership wouldn't rank it high on TV either. Luckily, FOX, like Warner, are not concerned that Smackdown regularly finishes bottom 3 on network in P2+, because it finishes top 3 in P18-49. It'd be a cancellation risk if P2+ meant what it used to mean.

These fluctuations between 920k and 960k and 1m are fairly meaningless as long as viewership is high enough to maintain their ranking. If they dropped to 300k on the other hand, they're not going to have the same demo share because they do more than 300k in the 18-49 alone right now.

It's the hot-takes and people trying to justify their own agendas with faulty logic I take issue with. If AEW's demo dropped to a 0.25 next week, shifting it from top 5 to 20~30 range I'd be the first on here saying that's a *bad trend*.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Because it was a quick 'n' easy way to express how glad I was that an old school match grew rather than lost viewers, which is a rarity in Q1 -> Q2. It doesn't mean it would have been any less impressive if it rose to 999,999 viewers. And it also doesn't mean that P18-49 isn't still way more important than P2+, something Tony Khan and umpteen people in the industry have said time and time again.
> 
> Why not pick out my umpteen other posts in this very thread talking about how the P18-49 is more important than the P2+, something I've posted OVER AND OVER again, with evidence and citations?
> 
> And why ignore all the other points I've made (re: TV rights, cable's decline, the rankings and how it compares to other shows)? Instead we go for the ad hominen by implying I'm some sort of hypocrite, when I've been one of the most consistent posters in explaining what is most important with ratings.
> 
> Basically, you expect their total viewership to grow while fewer people have access to cable and/or watch by other means. You expect them to do what few to no shows are doing. That's why their 18-49 demo share (%) is more relevant because whether cable has 100m or 50m viewers, that share still comes out of 100%. They have swam against the tide better than most shows for a long time and are still very consistent. Look at RAW's post-Mania trend in comparison.
> 
> It's not even just the cord cutting, but fewer people watching things live now. AEW Dynamite _does_ have well over 1m viewers every week in America, just not live. Go and check Wade Keller's +3 day numbers in the PW Torch. Rampage is the most-watched +3 day wrestling show due to its timeslot.
> 
> Here's some March data for those obsessed by the million:
> 
> 
> 
> And it goes without saying that the NBA is affecting EVERYTHING right now and will do until after mid-June. Smackdown and RAW have done some recent record lows in both metrics.
> 
> In the end, facts don't care about feelings, so if AEW land an improved TV rights deal, you're wrong. If AEW struggle and see their TV rights cut, I'm wrong.





Randy Lahey said:


> Hilarious that when the Demo numbers continue to narrow between Raw and Dynamite, the WWE bots chime in about “but what about total viewers. AEW is such a failure”.
> 
> The entire difference is that WWE has a giant over 50+ audience. It’s why NXT has the oldest audience to ever watch a wrestling show. NXT! A show supposedly marketed to casuals. Oldest audience to ever watch wrestling.
> 
> AEW will never compete against over 50s bc they’ve been on TV for 2.5 years, while Raw has been on TV for nearly 30 years. If you are over 50, you been watching Raw for a long time. You aren’t going to watch another wrestling show if you are used to your cyrreht show.
> 
> AEW is doing great in comparison to WWE in the only 3 metrics that matter: 18-49 demo (which determine TV rights feee), Live Gate Attendance, PPV buys. That’s it.
> 
> Facts are if you are over 50 and like womens wrestling, WWE is for you. If you are under 50 and don’t, it’s clear WWE is losing your attention.


The problem with all of this is both of you are talking out of both sides of your ass. You can't have it both ways. 

3venflow wants a situation where if they do a million he's estactic about the performance. But when they don't, well you better not point out it's underwhelming because really what he cares about is every metric. 

Meanwhile Randy is lying about AEW's demos being superior when really they only beat NXT and occasionally the 3rd hour of Raw. The reality is Dynamite loses to Raw and SmackDown in the "only males 18-49 matter" demo on a consistent basis, loses in mostly every other demo, and loses in viewership. I mean let that sink in AEW isn't even winning the "real wrestling fans are males 18-49 demo

At the end of the year AEW is going to be watched by less people live in person, live on TV, sell less merch, and make less money.


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> @RainmakerV2 Tracked down by whom? This is the first time in a while I can remember anyone coming after me personally bar one guy who completely misinterpreted a point I made about brand loyalty meaning swapping Reigns for a Marko Stunt wouldn't help AEW or hurt WWE much.
> 
> I will call a spade a spade and primarily judge AEW shows by their Nielsen ranking because that's the most objective way to do it (key metric + % share compared to everything else). And the fact is, AEW has been doing well in that department from day 1 unless preempted. Dynamite tends to always be near the top of those rankings and is still a good performer. That is where WWE also succeeds because its total viewership wouldn't rank it high on TV either. Luckily, FOX, like Warner, are not concerned that Smackdown regularly finishes bottom 3 on network in P2+, because it finishes top 3 in P18-49. It'd be a cancellation risk if P2+ meant what it used to mean.
> 
> These fluctuations between 920k and 960k and 1m are fairly meaningless as long as viewership is high enough to maintain their ranking. If they dropped to 300k on the other hand, they're not going to have the same demo share because they do more than 300k in the 18-49 alone right now.
> 
> It's the hot-takes and people trying to justify their own agendas with faulty logic I take issue with. If AEW's demo dropped to a 0.25 next week, shifting it from top 5 to 20~30 range I'd be the first on here saying that's a *bad trend*.



And there's 5 more lol. We get it. Unless they drop to abysmal numbers then the numbers will always be good. It's understood.


----------



## 3venflow

RapShepard said:


> The problem with all of this is both of you are talking out of both sides of your ass. You can't have it both ways.


I've literally explained what I meant and I also quizzed you why you're sidestepping all the other points I made, but again you go for the insults.

I've pointed out why:

1. 18-49 is the main metric and it doesn't matter if I'm happy that FTR vs. FTR did around a million. That does not define success or failure.
2. Cable is losing viewers yet people willfully ignore that and expect them to grow their linear TV viewership with fewer people to attract.
3. Their TV rights are likely go up than down, which all logic will say their numbers are successful comparative to what else is on TV.
4. If you do care about the million so much, Dynamite does over a million every week, just not live viewers (+3 days).

They're also doing well in pretty much every other category, like PPV buys, ticket sales (three potential million dollar gates coming up), social media growth and international expansion (slow but steady with new TV deals).

But feel free to revert to the ad hominen. I'll just make use of my block list because countering hot-takes and insults with data and logic gets boring after a while. Even Reddit has more considered and objective discussion, while this place is a hive of toxic negativity (criticism is fine and we all make it, but people here just want to hate shit because that's the way they are).



RainmakerV2 said:


> And there's 5 more lol. We get it. Unless they drop to abysmal numbers then the numbers will always be good. It's understood.


Until their numbers are viewed as a failure by the network and drop down the rankings, the numbers will be good. I say the exact same about WWE's. Their viewership has fallen year after year after year, but they're still comparatively ranking high in the key metric which is why they're successful and command big money.

I don't understand how anyone with an ounce of common sense can view finishing behind only the NBA playoffs out of thousands of shows in the Nielsen rankings as anything but good.

And sorry for trying to back up my points instead of dealing one-liners.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

There are about 5-6 guys on here who will defend AEW every single week no matter what they do. They were here when Dynamite was doing 600k and losing to NXT with their excuses and they will likely be here until the day AEW dies.

The explanation on why a million people mattered last week but doesn't this week is just depressing. The same old tired argument about 18-49 mattering the most until AEW does a high total viewer number is also lame and played out at this point.

Fact - Yes, 18-49 is the key demo but as we've debated a million times before the AEW audience isn't an audience that a typical advertiser would want. They are not affluent, they often pirate, they often live with family/roommates and they make under the US average. Nobody sees that and goes "Whoa! I need to hit this audience!"

Fact - The argument of "TV is outdated" is a fair one but AEW has drawn 1.5 million multiple times and WWE has done as much as 2.2 million in recent times. That means AEW could significantly grow their television audience but cannot. Also, a live program is generally watched more on television.

Fact - The TV deal will likely go up but AEW will still operate at a loss due to their significant overhead. This renewed Turner deal isn't going to be the saving grace that everyone thinks it will be for the Dub...

Fact - Nobody cares about your block list or your elitism about putting people on it.


----------



## Seth Grimes

RapShepard said:


> The problem with all of this is both of you are talking out of both sides of your ass. You can't have it both ways.
> 
> 3venflow wants a situation where if they do a million he's estactic about the performance. But when they don't, well you better not point out it's underwhelming because really what he cares about is every metric.
> 
> Meanwhile Randy is lying about AEW's demos being superior when really they only beat NXT and occasionally the 3rd hour of Raw. The reality is Dynamite loses to Raw and SmackDown in the "only males 18-49 matter" demo on a consistent basis, loses in mostly every other demo, and loses in viewership. I mean let that sink in AEW isn't even winning the "real wrestling fans are males 18-49 demo
> 
> At the end of the year AEW is going to be watched by less people live in person, live on TV, sell less merch, and make less money.


All people who care about demos and shit are straight lying. Unless you have money invested in AEW there is 0 reason to give a shit about key demos and that. If you want to use viewership to make a point, total might be stronger because you can at least claim that it's more entertaining, so more are watching it. I've not once yet seen a single AEW or WWE fan actually say why they care about demos and such. All they do is point out the obvious "because that demo spends more and is more likely to buy the merch!". Soon as I say, "and? Is that money going into your pocket, why do you care?" they stop replying as none of them have an answer. 3venflow I'm not sure falls into this category you might know if they use this logic, but most of them I've seen in here do that


----------



## .christopher.

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I will bring this up every time they try to downplay how shitty the ratings are. Everyone on both sides thought they would be doing 1.2 to 1.3 mil CONSISTENTLY at this point, yet they're somehow doing worse than the summer of Britt with no major signings. Myself, @.christopher. and several others said if they don't capitalize on Bryan and put the belt on him expeditiously, ratings are going to tank, and here we are at 800 fucking K, 30 signings later.*


Preach, my man.

It's funny how people act like this is an unrealistic target now, too. No, the evidence was there that a few hundred thousand were willing to give AEW a try. All they had to do was put on a good show and not bring Punk and Bryan down to everyone else's level. Well, they didn't put on a good show, and they killed the buzz Bryan and Punk brought as quickly as they killed Sting's.


Randy Lahey said:


> Hilarious that when the Demo numbers continue to narrow between Raw and Dynamite, the WWE bots chime in about “but what about total viewers. AEW is such a failure”.
> 
> The entire difference is that WWE has a giant over 50+ audience. It’s why NXT has the oldest audience to ever watch a wrestling show. NXT! A show supposedly marketed to casuals. Oldest audience to ever watch wrestling.
> 
> AEW will never compete against over 50s bc they’ve been on TV for 2.5 years, while Raw has been on TV for nearly 30 years. If you are over 50, you been watching Raw for a long time. You aren’t going to watch another wrestling show if you are used to your cyrreht show.
> 
> AEW is doing great in comparison to WWE in the only 3 metrics that matter: 18-49 demo (which determine TV rights feee), Live Gate Attendance, PPV buys. That’s it.
> 
> Facts are if you are over 50 and like womens wrestling, WWE is for you. If you are under 50 and don’t, it’s clear WWE is losing your attention.


When people start with the "WWE bots" nonsense you know there's nothing left.

Even if we take demos into account, which aren't important as @Chip Chipperson excellently puts above, it's more of an indictment of WWEs decline rather than AEWs success.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522965847949684737


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

.christopher. said:


> Preach, my man.
> 
> It's funny how people act like this is an unrealistic target now, too. No, the evidence was there that a few hundred thousand were willing to give AEW a try. All they had to do was put on a good show and not bring Punk and Bryan down to everyone else's level. Well, they didn't put on a good show, and they killed the buzz Bryan and Punk brought as quickly as they killed Sting's.
> 
> When people start with the "WWE bots" nonsense you know there's nothing left.
> 
> Even if we take demos into account, which aren't important as @Chip Chipperson excellently puts above, it's more of an indictment of WWEs decline rather than AEWs success.


*Meanwhile, some people in here will try to spin the shit ratings to 400,000 people "cutting the cord" in the last 7 months because ratings are down across the board.*


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> I've literally explained what I meant and I also quizzed you why you're sidestepping all the other points I made, but again you go for the insults.
> 
> I've pointed out why:
> 
> 1. 18-49 is the main metric and it doesn't matter if I'm happy that FTR vs. FTR did around a million. That does not define success or failure.
> 2. Cable is losing viewers yet people willfully ignore that and expect them to grow their linear TV viewership with fewer people to attract.
> 3. Their TV rights are likely go up than down, which all logic will say their numbers are successful comparative to what else is on TV.
> 4. If you do care about the million so much, Dynamite does over a million every week, just not live viewers (+3 days).
> 
> They're also doing well in pretty much every other category, like PPV buys, ticket sales (three potential million dollar gates coming up), social media growth and international expansion (slow but steady with new TV deals).
> 
> But feel free to revert to the ad hominen. I'll just make use of my block list because countering hot-takes and insults with data and logic gets boring after a while. Even Reddit has more considered and objective discussion, while this place is a hive of toxic negativity (criticism is fine and we all make it, but people here just want to hate shit because that's the way they are).
> 
> 
> 
> Until their numbers are viewed as a failure by the network and drop down the rankings, the numbers will be good. I say the exact same about WWE's. Their viewership has fallen year after year after year, but they're still comparatively ranking high in the key metric which is why they're successful and command big money.
> 
> I don't understand how anyone with an ounce of common sense can view finishing behind only the NBA playoffs out of thousands of shows in the Nielsen rankings as anything but good.
> 
> And sorry for trying to back up my points instead of dealing one-liners.


I've said from the beginning and weeks on end that being in the top 10 means they're doing fine. You can go throughout this thread and other ratings threads and see that. Hell anytime the new TV deal thread is made I've said they're likely to get a better deal. 

My point from the beginning is to stop the deflections. Anytime they don't get a great viewership there's an excuse about how 

"Well other TV happened"

And

"Well it doesn't matter anyway because Nielson is archaic and anyway TNT only wanted 500k because everybody is cutting cable".

It's okay to acknowledge they do good business, but with the stars they have and the primetime spot they should probably be getting more viewers. Because we both know if they had killed it this week with something like a 1.2 or higher folk would be talking about how AEW is producing a great show that people want to watch. Well besides the folk that downplay that they are successful. 

They've shown the ability to get multiple weeks of a million viewers. They've shown the ability to at least maintain months of high 900k to low million views. So yeah when they spend a month dropping and hit mid and low 800k that shit is going to get pointed out. AEW and WWE should be producing shows that their fans don't tune out of routinely because "well sports, game shows, and politics were on".


----------



## Mister Sinister

Garty said:


> That's a cop-out... out of the matches that took place LAST NIGHT, which one should have been the main-event?


Of the matches on the show, the main event should have been Wardlow vs mystery meat, and it should have been teased all night.

What I'd have booked: Hangman, Starks and Spears (or another chosen representative of MJF) vs Wardlow, Christian and Punk.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lol
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522965847949684737


You will mock people who want the casuals to follow AEW but will not mock Tony Khan for trying to attract those same people. Wake up call, chief. Bryan, Punk, Henry, Big Show, Jeff Hardy etc were all signed to try and attract casual wrestling fans.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> You will mock people who want the casuals to follow AEW but will not mock Tony Khan for trying to attract those same people. Wake up call, chief. Bryan, Punk, Henry, Big Show, Jeff Hardy etc were all signed to try and attract casual wrestling fans.


i posted a joke chippah, why so serious?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Why is everybody so serious - lets have a Q&A, right?

what is the point of ratings?

@RapShepard @The Legit Lioness @Seth Grimes @.christopher. …. Anybody can answer, really

(hint, its two-fold)


----------



## RapShepard

Seth Grimes said:


> All people who care about demos and shit are straight lying. Unless you have money invested in AEW there is 0 reason to give a shit about key demos and that. If you want to use viewership to make a point, total might be stronger because you can at least claim that it's more entertaining, so more are watching it. I've not once yet seen a single AEW or WWE fan actually say why they care about demos and such. All they do is point out the obvious "because that demo spends more and is more likely to buy the merch!". Soon as I say, "and? Is that money going into your pocket, why do you care?" they stop replying as none of them have an answer. 3venflow I'm not sure falls into this category you might know if they use this logic, but most of them I've seen in here do that


I get the arguments for both just be consistent. Good demo = means good business, cool. Viewership = public enjoyment, cool. Then acknowledge a talk about business isn't necessarily the same as enjoyment. WWE is clearly doing good business. They're constantly falling ratings means that clearly less people feel the need to watch it live. Now they still have enough to do good business, but clearly they aren't as compelling as they could be. Same goes for AEW right now.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i posted a joke chippah, why so serious?


Antagonistic joke to mock those that feel a certain way and then you ask "Why so serious" when someone calls you on it...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Antagonistic joke to mock those that feel a certain way and then you ask "Why so serious" when someone calls you on it...


so antagonistic, take a chill pill Chip, nobody likes a sour patch kid


----------



## .christopher.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Why is everybody so serious - lets have a Q&A, right?
> 
> what is the point of ratings?
> 
> @RapShepard @The Legit Lioness @Seth Grimes @.christopher. …. Anybody can answer, really
> 
> (hint, its two-fold)


you have magic powers. This is one of the rare times I get an alert for a mention. It usually doesn't alert me and I just notice my name scrolling through.


----------



## Mr316

DammitChrist said:


> I can't wait until they inevitably rise up to a million+ viewers again more often by continuing their usual good booking.


Hopefully Big Bang Theory comes out with a brand new season.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Repeat after me;

18-49 Demo is all that matter when renewing TV contracts.

2 years ago, Raw was beating Dynamite 51-26. 24 months later, that margin is now 38-32.

That’s either a huge win for AEW or a huge loss for Raw (or both because a Cable company isn’t going to pay one show 5x the amount of a similar show with similar ratings)

Cole/Punk/Danielson have more than paid for themselves when you look at the massive increase in PPV buys.

You want to know a true failure of a wrestling show? Try NXT 2.0. They do 0.11-0.14 demos in PRIMETIME.


----------



## qntntgood

Alfred Konuwa,reports that the May 6th episode of AEW Rampage brought in 319K viewers.keep in mind this is the over night number,so again I you what is the excuse now .


----------



## rbl85

qntntgood said:


> Alfred Konuwa,reports that the May 6th episode of AEW Rampage brought in 319K viewers.keep in mind this is the over night number,so again I you what is the excuse now .


Just use your brain more than 10s and you'll see why.

I know it's hard but try.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> Repeat after me;
> 
> 18-49 Demo is all that matter when renewing TV contracts.
> 
> 2 years ago, Raw was beating Dynamite 51-26. 24 months later, that margin is now 38-32.
> 
> That’s either a huge win for AEW or a huge loss for Raw (or both because a Cable company isn’t going to pay one show 5x the amount of a similar show with similar ratings)
> 
> Cole/Punk/Danielson have more than paid for themselves when you look at the massive increase in PPV buys.
> 
> You want to know a true failure of a wrestling show? Try NXT 2.0. They do 0.11-0.14 demos in PRIMETIME.



NXT 2.0 is a failure? It's full of green guys and gals who might be making 50k a year and it's only 170K viewers behind Dynamite which has probably 70 million or more dunked into talent alone. 

People like you are exactly what people like @RapShepard are talking about. Every single number is good. Every time. Doesn't matter.


----------



## DammitChrist

Randy Lahey said:


> Repeat after me;
> 
> 18-49 Demo is all that matter when renewing TV contracts.
> 
> 2 years ago, Raw was beating Dynamite 51-26. 24 months later, that margin is now 38-32.
> 
> That’s either a huge win for AEW or a huge loss for Raw (or both because a Cable company isn’t going to pay one show 5x the amount of a similar show with similar ratings)
> 
> Cole/Punk/Danielson have more than paid for themselves when you look at the massive increase in PPV buys.
> 
> You want to know a true failure of a wrestling show? Try NXT 2.0. They do 0.11-0.14 demos in PRIMETIME.


Yep, NXT 2.0 is definitely a huge failure.

They’re down regularly compared to most of Indy NXT’s episodes not too long ago, and they can’t even reach over 800 K viewers at their peak (which Indy NXT did multiple times).

Hell, I think they even struggle to draw over 700+ K viewers. They’ve only done so like a handful of times over the past 8 months so far (whereas Indy NXT managed to do so more often even while COMPETING AGAINST DYNAMITE head-to-head during the pandemic era).

You made an excellent point here regarding which show is actually a failure


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Don't know if this was posted, but lowest number in 50 weeks:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522303265760759810


----------



## rbl85

Some of you seems to shut down their brain everytime a rating is "low".

When a rating is low it's always because "the show suck and it's deserve" and when people point out that without the playoff they would still be doing around 1M you brush it off to the side with "excuses" 

It's going to be funny when Dynamite is back to +/-1M after the playoff. You're probably going to say that it's thanks to the shows being better because you will not accept the fact that you were wrong.

Some of you have been doing that for quite sometime now and strangely in the end you've never been right.


----------



## Randy Lahey

All I know is if you are in prime time, and do 0.11-0.14 (reruns of 20 year old episodes of Law&Order do better) then that’s a failure. Those are numbers that you get cancelled.

The object of any TV show is to simply not get cancelled. USA paid alot for NXT. It doesn’t matter if the roster is low budget or not.

USA could easily replace them with numbers that low. It doesn’t matter how unknown the roster is. Clearly nobody other than 60 years old WWE lifers has any interest in it.

Yes, in comparison to the drops Raw and NXT have had since AEW started, yes AEW numbers do look awesome. If my sales numbers are stable, and my rivals are dropping consistently, that’s a win for me. Especially if I’m a new company that doesn’t have the brand awareness as my rival.

51-26 is a blowout.
38-32 is much closer
I predict a year from now it’ll be a dead heat, which again is great news for AEW and terrible news for Raw. Why would USA pay 5x for the same 18-49 demo? They won’t


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> All I know is if you are in prime time, and do 0.11-0.14 (reruns of 20 year old episodes of Law&Order do better) then that’s a failure. Those are numbers that you get cancelled.
> 
> The object of any TV show is to simply not get cancelled. USA paid alot for NXT. It doesn’t matter if the roster is low budget or not.
> 
> USA could easily replace them with numbers that low. It doesn’t matter how unknown the roster is. Clearly nobody other than 60 years old WWE lifers has any interest in it.
> 
> Yes, in comparison to the drops Raw and NXT have had since AEW started, yes AEW numbers do look awesome. If my sales numbers are stable, and my rivals are dropping consistently, that’s a win for me. Especially if I’m a new company that doesn’t have the brand awareness as my rival.
> 
> 51-26 is a blowout.
> 38-32 is much closer
> I predict a year from now it’ll be a dead heat, which again is great news for AEW and terrible news for Raw. Why would USA pay 5x for the same 18-49 demo? They won’t



You mean the demo that got them sent to the comedy rerun channel for Hockey (which does an awful demo compared to them) right? You realize there's so much more to signing on with a company than just a demo lmao. And the 18-49 wrestling audience is not an audience most advertisers are having orgasms over. All this has been explained to you but obviously AEW can never do a single bad number so it's totally pointless lol.


----------



## DammitChrist

Randy Lahey said:


> All I know is if you are in prime time, and do 0.11-0.14 (reruns of 20 year old episodes of Law&Order do better) then that’s a failure. Those are numbers that you get cancelled.
> 
> The object of any TV show is to simply not get cancelled. USA paid alot for NXT. It doesn’t matter if the roster is low budget or not.
> 
> USA could easily replace them with numbers that low. It doesn’t matter how unknown the roster is. Clearly nobody other than 60 years old WWE lifers has any interest in it.
> 
> Yes, in comparison to the drops Raw and NXT have had since AEW started, yes AEW numbers do look awesome. If my sales numbers are stable, and my rivals are dropping consistently, that’s a win for me. Especially if I’m a new company that doesn’t have the brand awareness as my rival.
> 
> 51-26 is a blowout.
> 38-32 is much closer
> I predict a year from now it’ll be a dead heat, which again is great news for AEW and terrible news for Raw. Why would USA pay 5x for the same 18-49 demo? They won’t


Yep, it’s pretty obvious that they’re happy with the good demographic numbers


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> You mean the demo that got them sent to the comedy rerun channel for Hockey (which does an awful demo compared to them) right? You realize there's so much more to signing on with a company than just a demo lmao. *And the 18-49 wrestling audience is not an audience most advertisers are having orgasms over.* All this has been explained to you but obviously AEW can never do a single bad number so it's totally pointless lol.


prove it - post an ad rate card of 2022


----------



## Wolf Mark

omaroo said:


> Really?
> 
> You got proof for such a "factual" statement?


There's a guy on You Tube who posts reports on the Konnan 100% Certified podcast who is basically the most connected guy in the industry and keep laughing at Meltzer's bullshit and proving him wrong. Check it out.


----------



## Wolf Mark

RapShepard said:


> It's not an imaginary benchmark it's just not finding every which way to explain how a wrestling show with Punk, Bryan, Moxley, Jericho, The Bucks, Cole, The Hardys, and Sting frequently appearing failing to draw a million viewers is totally cool. When TNA did meh ratings despite the names they got rightfully mocked. AEW isn't going avoid getting slack for having all this talent and failing to convince more people to watch the show. When they do weeks of good viewership they should get praise. When they do weeks of bad viewership they should be criticized. Raw consistently drops viewers and folk acknowledge that despite the good business they do.


It's worse than TNA because AEW literally has the World at their feet and little boy Tony has Billions to play with. But like a child with little attention span he cannot keep his eyes on the ball and create a coherent weekly TV show. That could use the stars that they have to create a build up that would generate a momentum to result in good ratings.


----------



## Wolf Mark

.christopher. said:


> Preach, my man.
> 
> It's funny how people act like this is an unrealistic target now, too. No, the evidence was there that a few hundred thousand were willing to give AEW a try. All they had to do was put on a good show and not bring Punk and Bryan down to everyone else's level. Well, they didn't put on a good show, and they killed the buzz Bryan and Punk brought as quickly as they killed Sting's.
> 
> When people start with the "WWE bots" nonsense you know there's nothing left.
> 
> Even if we take demos into account, which aren't important as @Chip Chipperson excellently puts above, it's more of an indictment of WWEs decline rather than AEWs success.


Bro, seeing these guys having Sting, Punk and Bryan and doing nothing with them, wasting it all away is literally soul-crushing as a wrestling fan.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

rbl85 said:


> When a rating is low it's always because "the show suck and it's deserve" and when people point out that without the playoff they would still be doing around 1M you brush it off to the side with "excuses"


Yes, because it is always an excuse. If it was just a one off "Oh it was because of the playoffs" that'd be fine but since the beginning of AEW every single week without failure there has been an excuse.

Oh the rating was down because the AEW fans go out on St Patricks Day, oh the rating was down because of the war in the Ukraine, oh the rating was down because NXT put Sasha Banks on, oh the rating was down because of the presidential election, oh the rating was down because the West Coast fans can't tune in, oh the rating was down because of Cinco De Mayo, oh the rating was down because Tony Khan had to sing Christmas Carols, oh the rating was down because COVID.

We've heard probably hundreds of reasons at this point as to why AEW's ratings drop so excuse us for brushing another one off.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> prove it - post an ad rate card of 2022


You're asking for an impossibility but I'm more than happy to bring out the census again which shows 10,000 fans who all prefer AEW that are making under the median wage, are predominantly living at home or with roommates and that they very rarely spend money on wrestling shit let alone anything else.

Again, as we've discussed probably five times at this point an advertiser doesn't see an audience predominantly made up of cheap nerds with no money (According to the census at least) and say "Aha! This is the audience we need!"

This person was an AEW fan on Reddit by the way. Works 10 hours a week as a dog walker, must get that coveted 150 dollar a week audience!:


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> prove it - post an ad rate card of 2022



Aw pumpkin, them getting kicked to the B channel for a sport hardly anyone in America cares about that does a way less DEMO than them is all the proof I need. Love you too.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> Aw pumpkin, them getting kicked to the B channel for a sport hardly anyone in America cares about that does a way less DEMO than them is all the proof I need. Love you too.


listen sweetie, that is unfortunately only proof that Sport gets better ad rates than normal programming - which is something we all know, industry experts talk about it all the time

a rate card will show if wrestling gets *worse* ad rates than *normal* programming

and pay attention now my dear, if it did - it would’ve been cancelled. So until you can prove your statement with actual ad rates i’m gonna need you to run along while the big bois are debating, mkaaay?


----------



## La Parka

3venflow said:


> The 'million' is that imaginary benchmark. This is not what AEW and Warner are fixated on, nor are most networks, otherwise Smackdown would be a cancellation risk because it regularly finishes below its competition in P2+ (total viewers) but always ranks high (often wins) in P18-49.
> 
> Friday's chart below shows Smackdown 'losing' to everything but the CW in network primetime, but in the eyes of FOX, they ranked joint third (+ there was the NBA on cable doing big numbers).
> 
> View attachment 121873
> 
> 
> Cable is losing subscribers therefore viewership numbers will naturally drop, as they have for most shows. When AEW Dynamite debuted, there were roughly 83 million people with a cable sub. Currently there are roughly 76 million with a cable sub. That is -7 million or around an 8.5% drop in cable subscribers and I'd bet if you compared the majority of cable shows from 2019 until now, they're all doing lower total viewerships. RAW was still hitting 2.5m around the time Dynamite launched and is now averaging in the 1.6 to 1.7m range.
> 
> If I moved my sports team from a city of 5 million people to a city of 2.5 million people, I wouldn't be surprised if fewer people turn out for games. And we're often talking a mere 20,000 people (not that Nielsen ratings are totally accurate anyway and the shows ALWAYS top a million with +3 day DVRs) that somehow separares 'success' and 'failure' because people have this thing in their head where seven digits = success and six digits = failure.
> 
> The most objective chart to judge a show's current success by is where it ranks in the Nielsen ratings every week. Brandon Thurston estimates Dynamite to be worth +4.9x times its current value based on its performances.


Anytime AEW has a big show or a new signing they get a million LIVE viewers. They haven't done this since march. 

They were at this number (900k) when going up against NXT, they were at a million at 10 PM when CM Punk showed up. This shows that despite signing most of NXT's big names, AEW failed to actually keep any of NXT's audience. This also showed that more than a million people on a friday night were willing to tune into CM Punks debut and AEW failed to keep any of them around. 

This should be a concern to fans who defended how CM Punk was used at the start and insisted that having him face Bobby Fish and other lower card guys was fine and it should be a concern to those who say buying ROH was a good thing when AEW's audience doesn't seem to give a single shit about the company. 

As for what the network cares about, we will find out far more by waiting for the next contract and time slot than taking "Brandon Thurstons" estimate at face value.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

La Parka said:


> This should be a concern to fans who defended how CM Punk was used at the start and insisted that having him face Bobby Fish and other lower card guys was fine


Yup. I was told many times I was wrong and that this was good booking and a good use of CM Punk, I guess I was right all along...


----------



## DaSlacker

Wolf Mark said:


> It's worse than TNA because AEW literally has the World at their feet and little boy Tony has Billions to play with. But like a child with little attention span he cannot keep his eyes on the ball and create a coherent weekly TV show. That could use the stars that they have to create a build up that would generate a momentum to result in good ratings.


It's more about timing than quality or viewership.

If TNA of 2004 had debuted in 2019, with strong investment into the touring side of things, then it had every chance of being a financial success. Like AEW, it stagnated at 50% of WWE's viewership in 2009. AEW is slightly higher but much much closer in the 18-49 demo. Impact was generally 1/3 of Raw in the demo even at its peak.

Back then you didn't have Apple, Amazon, Warner etc fighting it out for direct subscription fees. Things like Facebook and YouTube have basically doubled usage from when Impact was cancelled. When TNA started on FOX Sports, Viacom was paying 50 million for WWE and UFC was receiving nothing from them.

15 years later - WWE TV takes 500 milllion for their content, despite losing 2 million viewers. UFC signs with ESPN for 300 million per year.

Tony Khan's objective was:

1) Create a shitload of not controversial original content on a regular basis.
2) Maintain an consistent younger demo that rates high compared to other shows.
3) First rate production values
4) Live and on location.
5) Cast of names with collectively a good social media following.
6) Most important - exist in sellers market.

Higher viewership would be nice I'm sure. But there are a lot more variables in play in the long term.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yes, because it is always an excuse. If it was just a one off "Oh it was because of the playoffs" that'd be fine but since the beginning of AEW every single week without failure there has been an excuse.
> 
> Oh the rating was down because the AEW fans go out on St Patricks Day, oh the rating was down because of the war in the Ukraine, oh the rating was down because NXT put Sasha Banks on, oh the rating was down because of the presidential election, oh the rating was down because the West Coast fans can't tune in, oh the rating was down because of Cinco De Mayo, oh the rating was down because Tony Khan had to sing Christmas Carols, oh the rating was down because COVID.
> 
> We've heard probably hundreds of reasons at this point as to why AEW's ratings drop so excuse us for brushing another one off.
> 
> 
> 
> You're asking for an impossibility but I'm more than happy to bring out the census again which shows 10,000 fans who all prefer AEW that are making under the median wage, are predominantly living at home or with roommates and that they very rarely spend money on wrestling shit let alone anything else.
> 
> Again, as we've discussed probably five times at this point an advertiser doesn't see an audience predominantly made up of cheap nerds with no money (According to the census at least) and say "Aha! This is the audience we need!"
> 
> This person was an AEW fan on Reddit by the way. Works 10 hours a week as a dog walker, must get that coveted 150 dollar a week audience!:


an ad rate card is the only thing that can prove the point

not some dodgy reddit census, stupid podcast, industry experts from 1999 or armchair coaches on here

a 2022 rate card.

you know how i know that wrestling is not worth less ad revenue than other *normal* programming?

*CAUSE IT WOULD’VE BEEN FUCKING CANCELLED IF IT WAS!*


----------



## Wolf Mark

DaSlacker said:


> It's more about timing than quality or viewership.
> 
> If TNA of 2004 had debuted in 2019, with strong investment into the touring side of things, then it had every chance of being a financial success. Like AEW, it stagnated at 50% of WWE's viewership in 2009. AEW is slightly higher but much much closer in the 18-49 demo. Impact was generally 1/3 of Raw in the demo even at its peak.
> 
> Back then you didn't have Apple, Amazon, Warner etc fighting it out for direct subscription fees. Things like Facebook and YouTube have basically doubled usage from when Impact was cancelled. When TNA started on FOX Sports, Viacom was paying 50 million for WWE and UFC was receiving nothing from them.
> 
> 15 years later - WWE TV takes 500 milllion for their content, despite losing 2 million viewers. UFC signs with ESPN for 300 million per year.
> 
> Tony Khan's objective was:
> 
> 1) Create a shitload of not controversial original content on a regular basis.
> 2) Maintain an consistent younger demo that rates high compared to other shows.
> 3) First rate production values
> 4) Live and on location.
> 5) Cast of names with collectively a good social media following.
> 6) Most important - exist in sellers market.
> 
> Higher viewership would be nice I'm sure. But there are a lot more variables in play in the long term.


None of this matters. You create a good product that attracts a large variety of people and the viewers will come. Wrestling is unique cause it's every week all year and wrestling fans are dedicated as Hell. You just have to give out an effort to take those dedicated fans and add other fans as well by raising awareness and come up with a great product to augment the viewership. Putting a wrestling show on a top network and hire great talent is easy. The issue with AEW is that I would take NWA, Impact, MLW or any others wrestling companies outthere and hire a few more stars and they would get the same ratings as Dynamite. Cause Tony Khan is clueless how to produce a wrestling TV show. Guess what if in 1996 Scott Hall would have been hyped with no surprises. Then would have appeared and do a typical promo in his hometown. Then say "I want to wrestle all the young guys in WCW". And headline a PPV with him facing Ray Mysterio with no storylines, sure it may have been a good match. But it would have never moved the needle. But WCW happened to be surrounded by smart people, and old school wrestling types who knew how to build things to a crescendo, create a mystery. THEY KNEW HOW TO TELL A FUCKING STORY.

As long as spoiled rich boy keep being stubborn about doing his way, it will never get better. But he doesn't want to hear about that cause he's always right.


----------



## Sad Panda

All this shit talk and AEW is still reportedly getting a third show, and apparently other projects are lined up for AEW through Discovery-Warner.

What does that suggest? Well, more than likely, that AEW is meeting or even exceeding expectations and is a valued commodity.

Maybe I’m wrong, probably not though.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Sad Panda said:


> All this shit talk and AEW is still reportedly getting a third show, and apparently other projects are lined up for AEW through Discovery-Warner.
> 
> What does that suggest? Well, more than likely, that AEW is meeting or even exceeding expectations and is a valued commodity.
> 
> Maybe I’m wrong, probably not though.


the only thing i’ll ever trust is the greed of tv execs

it hasn’t been cancelled? = good

its getting more shows? = good


----------



## Sad Panda

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the only thing i’ll ever trust is the greed of tv execs
> 
> it hasn’t been cancelled? = good
> 
> its getting more shows? = good


Yeah, it’s pretty cut and dry when it comes down to it.

I do enjoy how many people are wanting Khan and AEW to fail, simply because TK is a billionaire “nerd” who’s leading his merry band of “nerds.” This place Is dominated seemingly by guys who peaked in high school physically and now have no one to stuff in a locker.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Sad Panda said:


> Yeah, it’s pretty cut and dry when it comes down to it.
> 
> I do enjoy how many people are wanting Khan and AEW to fail, simply because TK is a billionaire “nerd” who’s leading his merry band of “nerds.” This place Is dominated seemingly by guys who peaked in high school physically and now have no one to stuff in a locker.


lol, truth


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, truth
> 
> View attachment 121987


The Johnny Depp avi tho, lmao 😂 

Justice 4 Johnny


----------



## 3venflow

Some ticket updates from WrestleTix:

*AEW Presents Dynamite & Rampage
Wed • May 11 • 7:00 PM
UBS Arena, Belmont Park - Long Island, NY*

Available Tickets => 1,284
Current Setup/Capacity => 8,364
Tickets Distributed => 7,080


*All Elite Wrestling
Wed • Jun 08 • 6:00 PM
Cable Dahmer Arena, Independence, MO*

Available Tickets => 398
Current Setup/Capacity => 4,189
Tickets Distributed => 3,791


*AEW x NJPW: Forbidden Door
Sun • Jun 26 • 6:00 PM
United Center, Chicago, IL*

Available Tickets => 42 (all "Official Platinum" tickets (aka super expensive seats))
Current Setup/Capacity => 13,598
Tickets Distributed => 13,556 (99.7%)


*AEW Presents "Dynamite/Rampage"
Wed • Jun 29 • 7:00 PM
Little Caesars Arena, Detroit, MI*

Available Tickets => 2,975
Current Setup/Capacity => 12,260
Tickets Distributed => 9,285


----------



## Geert Wilders

Those forbidden door sales are looking healthy. Pretty much a sell out. The crowd should be raucous. I wonder if it’ll be like wrestlemania. Fans across the globe travelling in.


----------



## 3venflow

Geert Wilders said:


> Those forbidden door sales are looking healthy. Pretty much a sell out. The crowd should be raucous. I wonder if it’ll be like wrestlemania. Fans across the globe travelling in.


I think it'll be mostly Americans since most of the tickets sold in the pre-sale. I really think AEW needs to change the stage here and get as many people in as possible. They could have sold 25~30,000, maybe more, for this already given how many were turned away. Every person turned away is money thrown away, not that Tony is exactly broke, but income is important for any business.

Tony needs to bite the bullet and upscale for a show soon, running a 25~40,000 seater in a hot market. A double header like Omega vs. Punk and Danielson vs. Okada could sell it out and that's what might bring in foreign fans, because you'd assume it wouldn't sell out overnight giving them time to grab tickets.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW is airing on Spanish TV for the first time with the Battle of the Belts shows. Nothing in the press release about Dynamite or Rampage yet, but they say BotB 'kicks off' AEW in Spain so they may follow.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523756665363136512

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sad Panda

I’ll be honest, I had no idea the time changed, I didn’t watch.


----------



## 3venflow

I loved the time change... because it was on at 10:30pm here instead of 3am, while it was Americans for once who had to suffer an inconvenient timeslot. 

I thought this might be the first AEW show ever to rank outside of cable's top 50, but it squeezed in at 49.


----------



## the_flock

3venflow said:


> Based on the demand and those turned away, I believe AEW could have sold around 30,000 tickets for Forbidden Door today.
> 
> When it comes time to do Omega vs. Punk, they need to be looking at a proper stadium.


You do know the Khan's are notorious for buying their own tickets don't you.

A stadium would be absolutely moronic.


----------



## Sad Panda

the_flock said:


> You do know the Khan's are notorious for buying their own tickets don't you.


This has been proven as fact?


----------



## 3venflow

Sad Panda said:


> This has been proven as fact?


It's utter bullshit and a wrestling version of a QAnon conspiracy theory. People were actually posting screenshots of themselves in the queue at like 5000th and many were struggling to get a ticket. Why the fuck would a promoter buy his own tickets during the pre-sale if people are struggling to get one? And why did the scalpers grab a few thousand, which they only do for high-demand events?

If there's one area AEW is good in, it's selling tickets and monetising its fanbase.

The guy you're responding to is a pure bad faith poster who has never uttered a positive word about the company. Just another VKM lover who is trying to will the death of a second major wrestling company that employs 100 workers. Instead of ignoring its existence.


----------



## Sad Panda

3venflow said:


> It's utter bullshit and a wrestling version of a QAnon conspiracy theory. People were actually posting screenshots of themselves in the queue at like 5000th and many were struggling to get a ticket. Why the fuck would a promoter buy his own tickets during the pre-sale if people aren't able to buy them? And why did the scalpers grab a few thousand, which they only do for high-demand events?
> 
> The guy you're responding to is a pure bad faith poster who has never uttered a positive word about the company. Just another VKM lover who is trying to will the death of a second major wrestling company that employs 100 workers. Instead of ignoring its existence.


Oh believe me, I’m well aware of the flock which is why I asked for some legitimacy behind the statement.

He tends to pop up every now again to shit on AEW and then thankfully goes away again.


----------



## DRose1994

That rating for Rampage — yikes. I know it wasn’t their normal time slot and that for sure cut into it a great deal. I mean, it was 5:30 on a Friday, plenty of people are still at work or on their way home or etc.


----------



## Chan Hung

As per a report online via the Torch: AEW Rampage on TNT pulled in 292,000 total viewers. They drew a 0.11 rating total in the key 18-49 demographic. This was the lowest ratings the show has ever done since debuting last August. It aired in an early timeslot (4:30PM EST) and was expected to be down as it was preempted due to TNT airing NHL playoff games.

^^ Holy Shit, Rampage better step it up, they are in some serious trouble with that horrific number. Then again, it's sadly deserved with the low quality show.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> The Johnny Depp avi tho, lmao 😂
> 
> Justice 4 Johnny


*Well, here's something we can agree on 😂*


----------



## the_flock

Randy Lahey said:


> Hilarious that when the Demo numbers continue to narrow between Raw and Dynamite, the WWE bots chime in about “but what about total viewers. AEW is such a failure”.


I seem to recall after Danielson debuted, AEW die hards were preaching total viewers are what counts.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523756665363136512
* As funny as this number is, I'm still at work on the East Coast, so I know the rest of the country was at work at this time. Regardless, they have performed horribly in the 7 o'clock prime time slot, so there's no excuse for Rampage's overall shitty numbers at this point.*



the_flock said:


> I seem to recall after Danielson debuted, AEW die hards were preaching total viewers are what counts.


*Nah, they were still demo obsessed, but still put more emphasis on total viewers than after it plummeted, because they thought Punk and Bryan would have them comfortably at 1.2 mil+.*


----------



## DammitChrist

I guess valid explanations like frequent schedule changes and the death slot are also being ruled out as excuses too.


----------



## Upstart474

The number for Rampage are not good for last week.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523764948895109121


----------



## Mr316

Extremely sad number. Safe to say AEW lost some die hard fans who used to watch no matter what. I remember a few years ago some AEW countdown to the PPV shows on Fridays at 11pm ET doing impressive numbers. Now everyone knows absolutely nothing about Dynamite and Rampage is must see TV. Just a bunch of matches with major lack of storytelling.


----------



## Mr316

DammitChrist said:


> I guess valid explanations like frequent schedule changes and the death slot are also being ruled out as excuses too.


Or maybe nobody cares anymore. Terrible week for AEW.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> Extremely sad number. Safe to say AEW lost some die hard fans who used to watch no matter what. I remember a few years ago some AEW countdown to the PPV shows on Fridays at 11pm ET doing impressive numbers. Now everyone knows absolutely nothing about Dynamite and Rampage is must see TV. Just a bunch of matches with major lack of storytelling.


You just don't get it.

I remember when Dynamite struggled with 500+ K viewers last year in June (*because* of the death slot on Friday nights), but yet they quickly recovered by drawing over a million viewers just 1-2 months after the nonsense regarding the schedule.

We were repeatedly told for a month last year that they 'lost half of their whole audience' even though that was never true at all since the ratings from July 2021 through early October 2021 indicate otherwise.

They've BEEN through far worse, and I expect silence once again when the ratings inevitably rise back.


----------



## DaSlacker

You're not getting decent ratings for a taped wrestling show at 5:30 eastern om a Friday.


----------



## Dr. Middy

I live on the East Coast. I missed Rampage because of work. It was on a 2:30 PM on the West Coast. 

I mean... what do you expect?


----------



## Sad Panda

Mr316 said:


> Or maybe nobody cares anymore. Terrible week for AEW.


Or maybe it’s because it was 530 eastern time? Not excusing the Dynamite number but come on, be fair.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Ruthless Tony is a failure. Time to unleash Attitude Tony!


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> I guess valid explanations like frequent schedule changes and the death slot are also being ruled out as excuses too.


292k is abysmal even if you want to factor in the "valid explanation".


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Low number

oh well… was a great show


----------



## thorn123

That was such a great show. The best wrestling program of the week. It’s a shame no one watched.
Two things stood out:
1) AEW women’s division is on fire
2) No one cares about AEW


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> was a great show





thorn123 said:


> That was such a great show.


----------



## DammitChrist

Whoanma said:


>


Oh my God!

Brooklyn Chase watching and enjoying AEW too confirmed.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Whoanma said:


>


*This is all Riho's fault!!! 🤭*


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Bischoff definitely posts here 😏*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524120585885806592


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Bischoff definitely posts here 😏*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524120585885806592


yeah, likely to be @otbr87 XD


----------



## Wolf Mark

Chan Hung said:


> As per a report online via the Torch: AEW Rampage on TNT pulled in 292,000 total viewers. They drew a 0.11 rating total in the key 18-49 demographic. This was the lowest ratings the show has ever done since debuting last August. It aired in an early timeslot (4:30PM EST) and was expected to be down as it was preempted due to TNT airing NHL playoff games.
> 
> ^^ Holy Shit, Rampage better step it up, they are in some serious trouble with that horrific number. Then again, it's sadly deserved with the low quality show.


Jeez. I'm wondering if Rampage may get cancelled at this point. Also by doing ratings like that, I wonder how the new Warner owner will think about it. What if Dynamite sink down to 500 thousand in the next couple of months?


----------



## 3venflow

More promising signs for AEW and Warner. No surprise of course, given they are a top performer. Both AEW and WWE should do well at the next round of talks.


----------



## Sad Panda

Yeah, again, it’s not surprising. AEW has positioned themselves as one of Warners top performing episodic shows so it would behoove them not to push the brand. It’s why all this hog wash about AEW not being here in 5 years etc is just fodder for those who don’t like the product, Khan etc etc.


----------



## Chelsea

Last night's Dynamite definitely deserves at least 1 million viewers. One of the best wrestling shows I've seen lately.


----------



## Mr316

Chelsea said:


> Last night's Dynamite definitely deserves at least 1 million viewers. One of the best wrestling shows I've seen lately.


Yes but the show from last week will probably hurt them.


----------



## Not Lying

Chelsea said:


> Last night's Dynamite definitely deserves at least 1 million viewers. One of the best wrestling shows I've seen lately.


Good show for AEW but too bad they're competing with the season debut of RHOBH.   


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524559352446832647


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524805370576703488


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524805370576703488


i have some receipts about ‘wrestling fans ain’t worth shit to advertisers’ i’d like to cash in


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i have some receipts about ‘wrestling fans ain’t worth shit to advertisers’ i’d like to cash in


*My energy remains the same: total viewership > demo








It doesn't say 18-49 viewers, but viewers in general. *


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *My energy remains the same: total viewership > demo
> View attachment 122306
> 
> It doesn't say 18-49 viewers, but viewers in general. *


the price is set by the demo

high demo, higher ad rates

cpm is normally more an online ad metric / strange to see it used for tv

might be they’re trying to combo packages of cable and streaming to advertisers


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Just curious if anybody has the numbers for other shows in the same time slot as Rampage. I know on its own and compared to other wrestling shows on the rest of the week it looks bad, but I’d like to see where it sits compared to everything else in the same time slot. And what does TNT usually have on leading in to Rampage? I have no idea cos I never watch that shit. There are even many Fridays that I lose track of time well before 10:00 and miss half the show.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Wolf Mark said:


> Jeez. I'm wondering if Rampage may get cancelled at this point. Also by doing ratings like that, I wonder how the new Warner owner will think about it. What if Dynamite sink down to 500 thousand in the next couple of months?


What if my father comes back from the dead? Will he look like he did when he kicked off, or like he does now and be a walking cremation urn? I wonder what the bongwizards at Discovery will think about that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Reggie Dunlop said:


> What if my father comes back from the dead? Will he look like he did when he kicked off, or like he does now and be a walking cremation urn? I wonder what the bongwizards at Discovery will think about that.


did you enjoy the show last night coach?

i remember you being (rightly) sour about last week's shitshow


----------



## 3venflow

Upfronts week and the cancellations are rolling in, including Mr. Mayor (Ted Danson's show), 4400 and what seems like most of CW's shows.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Upfronts week and the cancellations are rolling in, including Mr. Mayor (Ted Danson's show), 4400 and what seems like most of CW's shows.


was 4400 still a thing?? fucking hell


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

LifeInCattleClass said:


> did you enjoy the show last night coach?
> 
> i remember you being (rightly) sour about last week's shitshow


Yeah, big time. Fun show that I watched twice just to see that Dark Side of the Ring spoof again. That was gold, Jerry, gold. Barry Horowitz the wrestling world’s foremost jobber, Jake Roberts, Taz walking off camera in disgust, and of course Jericho playing it all serious, they all cracked me up. Everybody seemed to be on their game, everything was executed well. Only downer was Britt’s useless promo segment - since she lost the title, it’s like they throw her out there just to give her air time with no actual point or objective to accomplish. Other than that I loved the rest of the show.


----------



## 3venflow

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Just curious if anybody has the numbers for other shows in the same time slot as Rampage. I know on its own and compared to other wrestling shows on the rest of the week it looks bad, but I’d like to see where it sits compared to everything else in the same time slot.


Rampage in its normal timeslot ranks highly among the shows on at the same time on the Nielsen charts. The last show before the temporary time switch was beaten only by two shows (ESPN Sportscenter and some reality show on TLC) out of everything that aired 10pm or later.

Contextually, all of the major pro wrestling shows are doing well except maybe NXT 2.0 (this depends on USA's expectations, but it's key demo is shockingly low for a primetime show). RAW, Smackdown, Dynamite and Rampage on an average week outperform most other same-day shows in the 18-49 demo.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524841658826772485

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Prosper

840K? Shame it wasn't higher because last night's show was B PPV worthy. Incredible 2 hours in my opinion that I'm sure people will see, though not all live. Ah well, the numbers will go back up eventually.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Oh noes!

anyway….


----------



## Chelsea

Well..........fuck.


----------



## Mr316

The result of many bad shows in a row. Last night’s show was really good but damage has been done.


----------



## Whoanma

F*ck you, Khan.


----------



## Sad Panda

Bummer of a number. Is what it is. Probably still strong enough to be one of the higher viewed programs on the evening.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Well that's poor. 

Most likely a consequence of the prior week's show. 

We'll see how next week is if they build on this week's great show.


----------



## 3venflow

Here's the cable charts. NBA playoff domination again with very big numbers, but AEW also has the Housewives to deal with now.

Dynamite did place in the top five again ahead of NHL playoffs. Turner had 1, 2, 3 and 5 in the top 50.


----------



## Sad Panda

Dr. Middy said:


> Well that's poor.
> 
> Most likely a consequence of the prior week's show.
> 
> We'll see how next week is if they build on this week's great show.


Yup. I think the prior poor shows really left a sour taste in peoples mouths. And that really is a shame, because when they’re hitting on all cylinders like yesterdays show provided, they’re the best wrestling company in North America.

It’ll be interesting to see if last nights stellar effort will pop a better rating next week.


----------



## The XL 2

Tony Khan butchered what little star power Punk and Bryan had going in to AEW and Hangman is pretty much a joke of a world champion. What should happen is either Punk or MJF should take the belt and their should be a program or programs for the title centered around Wardlow, MJF, and Punk, but what will probably happen will be a program with Hangman and Cole for the belt with Cole eventually winning it. If they want to turn this around, the main event scene should be MJF, Wardlow, Punk, and Bryan as tier 1 main eventers with the tier 2 main eventers being Keith Lee, Jeff Hardy, and Darby Allen. What will likely happen is the main event scene being dominated by Adam Page, Adam Cole, Kenny Omega. Unfortunate.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Sad Panda said:


> Yup. I think the prior poor shows really left a sour taste in peoples mouths. And that really is a shame, because when they’re hitting in all cylinders like yesterdays show provided, they’re the best wrestling company in North America.
> 
> It’ll be interesting to see if last nights stellar effort will pop a better rating next week.


I think it'll rebound some after the NBA playoffs. Smackdown is somewhat down as well the past few weeks. 

That's been kinda common for most wrestling against the NBA playoffs the past few years. 

That being said, (although I liked the show), last week probably did legitimately hurt some due to the show quality.


----------



## RapShepard

Live Sex Celebration time


----------



## Sad Panda

Dr. Middy said:


> I think it'll rebound some after the NBA playoffs. Smackdown is somewhat down as well the past few weeks.
> 
> That's been kinda common for most wrestling against the NBA playoffs the past few years.
> 
> That being said, (although I liked the show), last week probably did legitimately hurt some due to the show quality.


Bro, I’ll admit, even as an AEW diehard I’ve been watching the playoffs as well over AEW. I’ll then watch the episode on the DVR later or the next day. AEW the past month or so really felt uninspired, it was the same formatted show every week with no real direction, it just felt dull overall.

Hopefully this weeks episode will lead us to exciting content leading up to the PPV.


----------



## Dark Emperor

It's clear AEW's new normal will now be 900k or so, and only special shows will make them sniff 1m again.

There is no free agent in wrestling bigger than CM Punk or Bryan was so not sure how they can get above 1m consistently again.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Prosper said:


> 840K? Shame it wasn't higher because last night's show was B PPV worthy. Incredible 2 hours in my opinion that I'm sure people will see, though not all live. Ah well, the numbers will go back up eventually.


When aew fan boys call every piece of content AEW produces PPV quality eventually that stops having an effect on people…

What’s the point of watching the randomly put together matches on this “PPV” quality show when they’re gonna do the same thing next week or the week after that and it will be called PPV quality again?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ripcitydisciple

LifeInCattleClass said:


> was 4400 still a thing?? fucking hell


It was an attempt at a reboot. A moderization.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Another weak number. Shame because it was a great show. Maybe next week’s viewership will reflect that.

Wonder how quarter hours will go. Darby/Jeff had my interest and I’m not even some big fan of either guy. On the other hand an MJF segment in Long Island, especially it being a contract signing setting up a long-time anticipated with Wardlow, you’d think would top the night. Or maybe one of the first two quarters like usual.


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> When aew fan boys call every piece of content AEW produces PPV quality eventually that stops having an effect on people…
> 
> What’s the point of watching the randomly put together matches on this “PPV” quality show when they’re gonna do the same thing next week or the week after that and it will be called PPV quality again?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nah, last night's episode of Dynamite *was *ppv quality.


----------



## Buhalovski

It wasnt that bad even during the Covid era lol


----------



## The XL 2

Dark Emperor said:


> It's clear AEW's new normal will now be 900k or so, and only special shows will make them sniff 1m again.
> 
> There is no free agent in wrestling bigger than CM Punk or Bryan was so not sure how they can get above 1m consistently again.


He's got nowhere to turn. Cena I'm pretty sure is under WWE contract and would never go to AEW anyway. He already burnt a bridge with Hulk Hogan for no reason. Batista is done with wrestling and would probably stay loyal to HHH if he wanted to return to the business. Obviously Rock would never appear on AEW programming. All they had was Punk and Bryan and they ruined those guys already. To be fair, Punk and Bryan were never really that big of draws, but they had credibility and they were still very accomplished on WWE TV. I mean, Bryan is in a midcard group that is basically centered around Wheeler Yuta. What the fuck is TK doing?


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, last night's episode of Dynamite *was *ppv quality.


----------



## DammitChrist

The XL 2 said:


> He's got nowhere to turn. Cena I'm pretty sure is under WWE contract and would never go to AEW anyway. He already burnt a bridge with Hulk Hogan for no reason. Batista is done with wrestling and would probably stay loyal to HHH if he wanted to return to the business. Obviously Rock would never appear on AEW programming. All they had was Punk and Bryan and they ruined those guys already. To be fair, Punk and Bryan were never really that big of draws, but they had credibility and they were still very accomplished on WWE TV. I mean, *Bryan is in a midcard group that is basically centered around Wheeler Yuta*. What the fuck is TK doing?


How can BCC be centered around Wheeler Yuta when he's heading over to Japan later this week in order to compete in the Best of the Super Junior tournament (starting this Sunday)?

Yuta will be away for 2 weeks since his final match in the tournament will likely be on May 31st, which means that he'll likely miss out on Double or Nothing. That doesn't sound like someone who's the central figure, especially since he'll skip the biggest ppv of the year.

If anything, Jon Moxley is the one who was the central figure of the trio last night.


----------



## The real Axel

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, last night's episode of Dynamite *was *ppv quality.


Let's be honest here, DubbaloChrist. Every Dynamite is PPV quality and AEW has never had a bad show 

Anyways, AEW settling into their new home of 800K. Not surprised in the least. Though I would've guessed lower than 800K yesterday to be fair.


----------



## Sad Panda

Once again, I do love that when tweets are posted regarding Warner supporting AEW, or getting a third show…. nothing, this thread is essentially dead.

But… a perceived bad rating on Thursday afternoon comes in….


----------



## Prosper

NathanMayberry said:


> When aew fan boys call every piece of content AEW produces PPV quality eventually that stops having an effect on people…
> 
> What’s the point of watching the randomly put together matches on this “PPV” quality show when they’re gonna do the same thing next week or the week after that and it will be called PPV quality again?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


1.) I've only said that for 3 Dynamites this year. I'm probably the only one that uses the "B PPV quality" line.

2.) I would happily take a PPV quality show every week. We obviously don't get that which is more than fine. That's what most seem to expect if you read the room as people are wanting the "best show ever" every week. I'm actually of the more objective mind as I realize that they can't possibly do that because you have to spread shit out. Where you have it wrong is that you think its bad for the fans to digest incredible pro wrestling content. It's only bad for you. And before you say "but oNNLyy uurrr uUURRR 840K", please keep in mind the obvious which I have no interest in repeating. 

3.) The matches weren't put together randomly. Every match last night had a purpose and was done for a reason.

4.) Sorry you can't enjoy the show, that's your problem my guy. If you want to come in every week solely when the ratings come out so you can continue to do Mayberry things, then go ahead, but don't quote me.


----------



## La Parka

Sad Panda said:


> Once again, I do love that when tweets are posted regarding Warner supporting AEW, or getting a third show…. nothing, this thread is essentially dead.
> 
> But… a perceived bad rating on Thursday afternoon comes in….
> 
> View attachment 122316


Well nobody watches AEWs second show, so I don’t see people would be interested in discussing the possibility of a third.


----------



## InexorableJourney

An Eddie Kingston production.


----------



## Mr316

Problem is consistency. You can’t have such a pathetic main event/show like the one last week and not expect any consequences.


----------



## Mr316

Also, despite the show last night being good, opening with skinny Adam Cole and Harwood is never gonna draw big numbers.


----------



## DammitChrist

Prosper said:


> 1.) I've only said that for 3 Dynamites this year. I'm probably the only one that uses the "B PPV quality" line.
> 
> 2.) I would happily take a PPV quality show every week. We obviously don't get that which is more than fine. That's what most seem to expect if you read the room as people are wanting the "best show ever" every week. I'm actually of the more objective mind as I realize that they can't possibly do that because you have to spread shit out. Where you have it wrong is that you think its bad for the fans to digest incredible pro wrestling content. It's only bad for you. And before you say "but oNNLyy uurrr uUURRR 840K", please keep in mind the obvious which I have no interest in repeating.
> 
> 3.) The matches weren't put together randomly. Every match last night had a purpose and was done for a reason.
> 
> 4.) Sorry you can't enjoy the show, that's your problem my guy. If you want to come in every week solely when the ratings come out so you can continue to do Mayberry things, then go ahead, but don't quote me.


NXT UK is probably the least watched major brand in WWE, but yet it's consistently the best wrestling show in that company (although Raw sometimes gives a run for its money lately).


----------



## Good Bunny

No millie?


----------



## Sad Panda

La Parka said:


> Well nobody watches AEW second show, so I don’t see people would be interested in discussing the possibility of a third.


Whether you want to discuss the possibility of a third show is not my point. It’s the fact that when there is positive spin put on AEWs relationship with Warner or the future of the company this thread is crickets. But you can put a guarantee that at 4 pm EST that when a rating drops and that number is perceived not good, there’s a group of folks here that pop in and this thread is jumping.

I mean it’s more just an observation than anything else.

There are a lot of folk that takes a weird pride in AEW not doing well.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Here's the cable charts. NBA playoff domination again with very big numbers, but AEW also has the Housewives to deal with now.
> 
> Dynamite did place in the top five again ahead of NHL playoffs. Turner had 1, 2, 3 and 5 in the top 50.
> 
> View attachment 122313


so… Dynamite was 5th on a night with NBA and NHL playoffs?

….

…….

that‘s pretty good, no?


----------



## Prosper

La Parka said:


> *Well nobody watches AEWs second show*, so I don’t see people would be interested in discussing the possibility of a third.


No one watches Rampage?


----------



## 3venflow

I expect all ratings for every show will trend upwards next month when the playoffs are over. This discussion is had every year when every year pro wrestling is hit by the playoffs. This is nothing compared to last year when AEW was preempted for over a month.










Come late June, I expect RAW, Smackdown, Dynamite and Rampage to be doing a little better. After the playoffs last year, it took a couple of weeks of refamiliarization then ratings increased.


----------



## Prosper

DammitChrist said:


> NXT UK is probably the least watched major brand in WWE, but yet it's consistently the best wrestling show in that company (although Raw sometimes gives a run for its money lately).


Never watched NXT UK outside of a couple Walter and Toni Storm matches lol, but I'll take your word for it.


----------



## Randy Lahey

0.33 is fine. When they aren’t going against the playoffs they’ll be back in the 0.38-0.42 range, which for comparison to Raw


3venflow said:


> Here's the cable charts. NBA playoff domination again with very big numbers, but AEW also has the Housewives to deal with now.
> 
> Dynamite did place in the top five again ahead of NHL playoffs. Turner had 1, 2, 3 and 5 in the top 50.
> 
> View attachment 122313


Soccer game did a huge number and they have very similar demos as AEW. 

AEW really does have a small 50+ audience. It’s why looking at total viewers is pointless.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Bad.


----------



## fabi1982

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, last night's episode of Dynamite *was *ppv quality.


And you know what, thats a bad thing imo, because it sets expectations they just cant match every week. 

Of course the Hardy/Darby match was great car crash television, but when you think about it having such spots in a quarterfinal with no build allcango match, how does any „normal“ main event stand a chance of not being „hmm last week was better“? 

Thats why there must be blood in every second match and basically every match needs to be no holds barred and the ref has to look away 20 times in a match to not call DQ for every match. Because they just cant have a good normal television show.

TK is setting his own bar too high because he thinks no one would watch a normal sports entertainment show, but when every show must be epic none is epic.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

time to put the belt back on Omega


----------



## Whoanma

GNKenny said:


> time to put the belt back on Omega


Or the belt*s*.


----------



## DaSlacker

Randy Lahey said:


> AEW really does have a small 50+ audience. It’s why looking at total viewers is pointless.


That could work in its favour. It's not easy to find or develop something original that sways a younger audience on a regular basis. Hell, it's difficult to create a new franchise that gains traction. Look at Hollywood - it's nearly all characters from years ago. Ghostbusters, Spiderman, Batman, Sonic, Scream. TV is awash with things that started several years ago: Real Housewives, Below Deck, 90 Day Fiance, Teen Mom, Deadliest Catch. 

AEW is one of the few newer brands to rank high in 18-49 and therefore a good longterm acquisition in comparison to what it cost Warner.


----------



## 3venflow

DaSlacker said:


> That could work in its favour. It's not easy to find or develop something original that sways a younger audience on a regular basis.


And CW just axed all these shows that were largely aimed at younger audiences, several of them latching on to the superhero craze:

Roswell, New Mexico (S1 started at 0.40, dropped to 0.10 in S2)
Legends of Tomorrow (1.2 to 0.20)
Batwoman (0.40 to 0.10)
In the Dark (0.40 to 0.10)
Legacies (0.60 to 0.30)
Charmed 0.50 to 0.10)
4400 (0.10 to 0.00)
Naomi (0.10)

If The CW is being sold soon, I wonder if they might make a play for AEW when rights renewal comes around (Warner have first option at an increased sum).

Like you say, AEW's consistency and high ranking 18-49 is really impressive. It fluctuates but there's never any major decline unless of preemptions. AEW and WWE are worth their weight in gold to the networks.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

3venflow said:


> And CW just axed all these shows that were largely aimed at younger audiences, several of them latching on to the superhero craze:
> 
> Roswell, New Mexico (S1 started at 0.40, dropped to 0.10 in S2)
> Legends of Tomorrow (1.2 to 0.20)
> Batwoman (0.40 to 0.10)
> In the Dark (0.40 to 0.10)
> Legacies (0.60 to 0.30)
> Charmed 0.50 to 0.10)
> 4400 (0.10 to 0.00)
> Naomi (0.10)
> 
> If The CW is being sold soon, I wonder if they might make a play for AEW when rights renewal comes around (Warner have first option at an increased sum).
> 
> Like you say, AEW's consistency and high ranking 18-49 is really impressive. It fluctuates but there's never any major decline unless of preemptions. AEW and WWE are worth their weight in gold to the networks.


Today I learned there was a Charmed reboot.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*That rating is definitely a reflection of last week's shit show and people giving up on the product. They should come back slowly after hearing the praise this week's episode got.*



3venflow said:


> Here's the cable charts. NBA playoff domination again with very big numbers, but AEW also has the Housewives to deal with now.
> 
> Dynamite did place in the top five again ahead of NHL playoffs. Turner had 1, 2, 3 and 5 in the top 50.
> 
> View attachment 122313


*This show has no damn female viewership, so stop acting like housewives is legitimate competition. It's embarrassing.*


----------



## 3venflow

The Legit Lioness said:


> This show has no damn female viewership, so stop acting like housewives is legitimate competition. It's embarrassing.


It was a tongue-in-cheek comment. NBA is the only serious competition digging into AEW and WWE's ratings right now, since they drag away so many males. Maybe NHL and Liga MX (if AEW has any latino viewers) a little, but not compared to NBA.


----------



## Not Lying

GNKenny said:


> Today I learned there was a Charmed reboot.


I've been watching the reboot for the past 2-3 weeks, finished all 3 completed seasons, but yeah the show sucks, and i'm fast forwading almost half of every episode.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

a bit higher ratings and demo does not matter when its wrestling and the aew brand. advertisers wont care.


----------



## DaSlacker

3venflow said:


> And CW just axed all these shows that were largely aimed at younger audiences, several of them latching on to the superhero craze:
> 
> Roswell, New Mexico (S1 started at 0.40, dropped to 0.10 in S2)
> Legends of Tomorrow (1.2 to 0.20)
> Batwoman (0.40 to 0.10)
> In the Dark (0.40 to 0.10)
> Legacies (0.60 to 0.30)
> Charmed 0.50 to 0.10)
> 4400 (0.10 to 0.00)
> Naomi (0.10)
> 
> If The CW is being sold soon, I wonder if they might make a play for AEW when rights renewal comes around (Warner have first option at an increased sum).
> 
> Like you say, AEW's consistency and high ranking 18-49 is really impressive. It fluctuates but there's never any major decline unless of preemptions. AEW and WWE are worth their weight in gold to the networks.


It really is the beginning of the end for scripted seasonal content on linear channels. You see it with ABC, NBC, CBS cancelling shows and using their parent company's streaming service as the platform of choice. 

Not sure what happens with TheCW. Wrestling wouldn't be a bad investment, though the potential new owners are opening up a lot of options. Going forward these brands will be ever more synonymous with reruns, showing stuff that premiered on a streaming service, live sport, news and local programming. The last one is one of the overlooked forces and far more lucrative than given credit for. Touring i.e localised wrestling and the 18-49 male demo isn't a bad catch. Political money floods into local broadcasting and that fanbase is attractive - particularly in swing states.


----------



## 3venflow

A bit from the article below which covers the Warner/Discovery upfronts.



> “We’re expanding Discovery Premier. It will just be called Premier. We’re going to keep all of the top 30-40 Discovery legacy lifestyle shows when they’re in first run. We’re just adding to it the best of Warner,” he said. “We we have great audiences that come up to comparable reach to broadcast at a lower CPM.”
> 
> The best of Warner means sports, AEW wrestling, the best of CNN’s brand-safe specials and originals documentary films.


If AEW is viewed as one of Warner's best properties, then it might help TK in trying to get ROH some kind of deal.





__





Loading…






www.nexttv.com


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524925089833156621

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chan Hung

We need more consistency though. Last night show was good. If they can continue to do good shows the ratings should be at least high 900+. They have the talent, that is for sure.


----------



## Chan Hung

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524925089833156621
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Jeff Hardy and Darby with them ratings grabs


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

I enjoyed the show, but that's a terrible rating. That's what happens when you put out shit shows consistently and then only now have a good show.


----------



## ClintDagger

I say this with peace and love, peace & love, but the demo number for wrestling DOES NOT MATTER. Wrestling has horrific demos. Wwe, AEW, it doesn’t matter. AEW and WWE aren’t valuable to cable or broadcast networks because of the ad dollars they bring. Respectable advertisers do not want to be associated with a low income and low educated audience even if they do skew young. Wrestling brings a good number for overall viewers which helps in rights fees. That’s it. Period. Stop listening to people who don’t know the industry or are shills for AEW & WWE.


----------



## Mr316

ClintDagger said:


> I say this with peace and love, peace & love, but the demo number for wrestling DOES NOT MATTER. Wrestling has horrific demos. Wwe, AEW, it doesn’t matter. AEW and WWE aren’t valuable to cable or broadcast networks because of the ad dollars they bring. Respectable advertisers do not want to be associated with a low income and low educated audience even if they do skew young. Wrestling brings a good number for overall viewers which helps in rights fees. That’s it. Period. Stop listening to people who don’t know the industry or are shills for AEW & WWE.


Numbers don’t matter. Close the thread because Clit Dagger said so.


----------



## RainmakerV2

ClintDagger said:


> I say this with peace and love, peace & love, but the demo number for wrestling DOES NOT MATTER. Wrestling has horrific demos. Wwe, AEW, it doesn’t matter. AEW and WWE aren’t valuable to cable or broadcast networks because of the ad dollars they bring. Respectable advertisers do not want to be associated with a low income and low educated audience even if they do skew young. Wrestling brings a good number for overall viewers which helps in rights fees. That’s it. Period. Stop listening to people who don’t know the industry or are shills for AEW & WWE.



You better duck


----------



## Prosper

ClintDagger said:


> I say this with peace and love, peace & love, but the demo number for wrestling DOES NOT MATTER. Wrestling has horrific demos. Wwe, AEW, it doesn’t matter. * AEW and WWE aren’t valuable to cable or broadcast networks because of the ad dollars they bring.* Respectable advertisers do not want to be associated with a low income and low educated audience even if they do skew young. Wrestling brings a good number for overall viewers which helps in rights fees. That’s it. Period. Stop listening to people who don’t know the industry or are shills for AEW & WWE.


How do you figure that? Please do tell. Define respectable when it comes to DTC or consumer brands. Is McDonalds/Pizza Hut/Progressive or any other middle-class promo offer not acceptable to the wrestling audience (or any TV audience for that matter) or favorable to the brands serving the ads? These are stupid rich companies that have millions to spend on brand presence. Do the ads running during a wrestling program whether AEW or WWE not come from billion-dollar companies looking for additional/new brand exposure? What brands do you expect them to attract or what messaging do you expect to be served?

95% of humanity falls under the low to middle class. Are you looking for Lamborghini commercials served to the hardcores/casuals? Bentleys? Rolex? There's a reason why companies like that don't run TV ads often, because the wealthy are not investing their time into cable television. When's the last time you saw a Gucci commercial? Probably never. They wouldn't be wealthy if they were, they're too busy stacking paper and doing entrepreneurial things. Catering to them via alternate means. This doesn't only fall under just the pro wrestling umbrella, but almost 100% of network TV. Pilots and series are getting canceled left and right. I was a huge fan of the show "Colony" and it was canceled because the demos and overalls were shit.

The demos matter because for a brand like Geico, exposing yourself to the middle class or the young has proven to result in positive returns. Because they're the ones making the new decisions on brand choice/loyalty on the daily, the older folks are set in their ways. If not, they wouldn't continue to invest ad dollars in television. It would be a waste. AEW outside of the NBA/NFL is always in the top 5, why wouldn't that be favorable to a network considering that network execs are aware of the dwindling and dying cable audience?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Boop!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524957996358451200


----------



## RoganJosh

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Boop!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524957996358451200


Who even subscribes to Apple TV?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RoganJosh said:


> Who even subscribes to Apple TV?


25m paid subscribers and 50m as part of the free year with a new apple device

that‘s not ‘nobody’


----------



## Sad Panda

In


ClintDagger said:


> I say this with peace and love, peace & love, but the demo number for wrestling DOES NOT MATTER. Wrestling has horrific demos. Wwe, AEW, it doesn’t matter. AEW and WWE aren’t valuable to cable or broadcast networks because of the ad dollars they bring. Respectable advertisers do not want to be associated with a low income and low educated audience even if they do skew young. Wrestling brings a good number for overall viewers which helps in rights fees. That’s it. Period. Stop listening to people who don’t know the industry or are shills for AEW & WWE.


So… why in the heck did Fox invest so much to attain WWE Smackdown?

And why is your opinion so vastly superior to anyone elses? What are your credentials? Can you post a resume?


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

What a shocker (not.) It's almost as if people don't care about awful acts like Danhausen, or a 12 year old like Cole. Also I believe the ship has sailed with Punk too. Also last weeks abomination didn't help


----------



## InfamousGerald

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> It's almost as if people don't care about awful acts like Danhausen, or a 12 year old like Cole.


People care about Danhausen bruh... what kind of statement is this? Also calling a Cole a 12 year old is just one of 10000 cringy "jokes" on this forum... I've never seen more painfully unfunny people than here


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Boop!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524957996358451200


Ruby Soho is to Tony Khan what Natalya is to Vince McMahon. We're just stuck seeing her.


----------



## Good Bunny

RoganJosh said:


> Who even subscribes to Apple TV?


Oh shtt that reminds me, I need to cancel before my free 3 months runs out next week


----------



## Fearless Viper

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524880617955024903


----------



## InfamousGerald

GNKenny said:


> Ruby Soho is to Tony Khan what Natalya is to Vince McMahon. We're just stuck seeing her.


People were complaining that she wasn't featured on TV enough. Do you not want to see her at all?


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

GNKenny said:


> time to put the belt back on Omega


Maybe he should just come back already


----------



## RoganJosh

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 25m paid subscribers and 50m as part of the free year with a new apple device
> 
> that‘s not ‘nobody’


Na mate Apple TV is the Impact Wrestling of the streaming world. Nobody gives a shit, that's why they give out free subs. Netflix and Disney Plus are the preferred choices.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RoganJosh said:


> Na mate Apple TV is the Impact Wrestling of the streaming world. Nobody gives a shit, that's why they give out free subs. Netflix and Disney Plus are the preferred choices.


why do people always invalidate a 4th or 5th biggest

are you saying 25m people is ‘nothing’?

and growing btw - its not the best, but its not horrible either

Ted Lasso alone is worth the price of the sub


----------



## Aedubya

When are the NBA playoffs over?


----------



## RoganJosh

LifeInCattleClass said:


> why do people always invalidate a 4th or 5th biggest
> 
> are you saying 25m people is ‘nothing’?
> 
> and growing btw - its not the best, but its not horrible either
> 
> Tedd Lasso alone is worth the price of the sub


It could be that they signed up for the freebie but forgot to cancel hence now they've become paying customers. I'm just saying nobody over here even gives Apple TV a thought when thinking about streaming services. We have way too many, including the free ones offered by the terrestrial broadcasters BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5. Heck there's even a paid version of a combined terrestrial offering called Britbox. I can't see anyone other than the older viewer subbing to that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RoganJosh said:


> It could be that they signed up for the freebie but forgot to cancel hence now they've become paying customers. I'm just saying nobody over here even gives Apple TV a thought when thinking about streaming services. We have way too many, including the free ones offered by the terrestrial broadcasters BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5. Heck there's even a paid version of a combined terrestrial offering called Britbox. I can't see anyone other than the older viewer subbing to that.


its got 25m subs bruv

50m free on top

stop pretending thats de nada


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

InfamousGerald said:


> People were complaining that she wasn't featured on TV enough. Do you not want to see her at all?


No, I do not.


----------



## .christopher.

Brings Punk back after a 7 year hiatus
Signs Bryan Danielson
Moves to apparently a better channel in TBS
Poaches their competitions main act in the undisputed era

Loses 600 thousand viewers

No amount of excuses can excuse AEWs ability to kill hype and momentum.


----------



## WrestleFAQ

There's just not much interesting happening in AEW.

There aren't enough storylines.
The few storylines they have aren't that good.
The few storylines they do have move waaaaaaay too slow.
The few storylines they do have rarely have worthy payoffs.

Tony Khan's daddy's money can put together a great roster. Unfortunately, Tony Khan's daddy's money can't buy Tony the creativity and wrestling sense to do much interesting with that roster. If Tony ever wants AEW to grow, he needs to accept this reality, put his ego aside, and hire someone who can.

Give us Vince Russo.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Reggie Dunlop said:


> What if my father comes back from the dead? Will he look like he did when he kicked off, or like he does now and be a walking cremation urn? I wonder what the bongwizards at Discovery will think about that.


As long as it does ratings.


----------



## 3venflow

If AEW moved to BT, it'd affect UK viewers considerably, since FITE would lose rights to it I assume. It'd mean more money for AEW, but less convenience for viewers who don't have BT.

-

Warner Bros. Discovery is set to launch a new sports venture with BT that could potentially affect WWE and AEW content distribution in the UK.

Per Variety, BT Sport will be transferred to Warner Bros. Discovery as part of the planned 50-50 venture. This would mean that BT Sport and Eurosport UK would be operated together.

BT Sport and Eurosport UK are expected to remain separate brands initially, before being brought under as single brand. A date for this has not been announced.

It was also noted that customers who access BT Sport through BT, as well as a large portion of BT TV customers, will receive Discovery+ as part of their existing subscriptions.

BT Sport is notably the home of WWE in the UK. Warner Bros. Discovery also owns TBS and TNT, the networks which AEW Dynamite and Rampage air on in the US. UK AEW fans currently have to watch through FITE.

The report did not mention how the change will affect WWE and AEW streaming in the UK. AEW is set to negotiate a new TV deal in the next couple of years, which could result in AEW content moving to this new brand in the UK.

We will continue to provide updates as they become available.









WWE & AEW TV To Be Offered On Same TV Package? - WrestleTalk


Warner Bros. Discovery is set to launch a new sports venture with BT that could potentially affect WWE and AEW content in the UK.




wrestletalk.com


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> If AEW moved to BT, it'd affect UK viewers considerably, since FITE would lose rights to it I assume. It'd mean more money for AEW, but less convenience for viewers who don't have BT.
> 
> -
> 
> Warner Bros. Discovery is set to launch a new sports venture with BT that could potentially affect WWE and AEW content distribution in the UK.
> 
> Per Variety, BT Sport will be transferred to Warner Bros. Discovery as part of the planned 50-50 venture. This would mean that BT Sport and Eurosport UK would be operated together.
> 
> BT Sport and Eurosport UK are expected to remain separate brands initially, before being brought under as single brand. A date for this has not been announced.
> 
> It was also noted that customers who access BT Sport through BT, as well as a large portion of BT TV customers, will receive Discovery+ as part of their existing subscriptions.
> 
> BT Sport is notably the home of WWE in the UK. Warner Bros. Discovery also owns TBS and TNT, the networks which AEW Dynamite and Rampage air on in the US. UK AEW fans currently have to watch through FITE.
> 
> The report did not mention how the change will affect WWE and AEW streaming in the UK. AEW is set to negotiate a new TV deal in the next couple of years, which could result in AEW content moving to this new brand in the UK.
> 
> We will continue to provide updates as they become available.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE & AEW TV To Be Offered On Same TV Package? - WrestleTalk
> 
> 
> Warner Bros. Discovery is set to launch a new sports venture with BT that could potentially affect WWE and AEW content in the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wrestletalk.com


well, if BT Sports has AEW live, it will be a positive for them and FITE will lose out or lose all rights

interesting moves


----------



## Kishido

Sorry to say... But absolutely deserved... While the match Jeff vs Darbin (who still looks like someone I would KO with one punch) was cool there is absolutely no good story going on. They try hard to do so with Punk and Page... But sorry Page is sidelined ever since he won the title that we can't take him seriouslz 

BCC is boring as well.


----------



## DammitChrist

I just found this quarterly breakdown from a friend of mine on Discord somewhere:



> Q1 - The first quarter with Adam Cole vs. Dax Harwood did 816,000 viewers ad 343,000 in 18-49. Even though they had Big Bang Theory lead-in, sports killed that show since it was down 27 percent from usual.
> 
> Q2 - The second quarter with the end of Cole vs. Harwood, a Darby Allin & Jeff Hardy package and most of C.M. Punk vs. John Silver did 829,000 viewers and 402,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q3 - The third quarter with the end of Punk vs. Silver, interviews with Britt Baker, Jamie Hayter and Rebel, Tony Nese vs. Danhausen and the post-match wit Hook did 872,000 viewers and 419,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q4 - The MJF, Wardlow, Shawn Spears and Mark Sterling contract signing segment did 886,000 viewers and 460,000 in 18-49. This was the high point of the show in 18-34 and tied for the high point in men 18-34.
> 
> Q5 - A package with Samoa Joe, Jay Lethal, Sonjay Dutt and Satnam Singh, Ricky Starks vs. Jungle Boy for the FTW title with Swerve Strickland, Keith Lee, Powerhouse Hobbs, Luchasaurus and Christian all out did 835,000 views and 446,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q6 - The Jericho Appreciation Society segment with Jon Moxley, Bryan Danielson, William Regal, Wheeler Yuta, Santana, Ortiz and Eddie Kingston did 874,000 viewers ad 470,000 in 18-49. It was the high point of he show both with viewers and 18-49 as well as Males 18-49, tied for the tops with Males 18-34, as well as tops in 35-49 and Males 35-49.
> 
> Q7 - Toni Storm vs. Jamie Hayter plus interviews with Scorpio Sky, Frankie Kazarian, Sammy Guevara and Tay Conti did 807,000 viewers and 435,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q8 - Jeff Hardy vs. Darby Allin in the Hart tournament and post-match with Young Bucks, Adam Cole, Bobby Fish, Kyle O’Reilly, Sting and Matt Hardy did 852,000 viewers and 439,000 in 18-49.


Anyone else on here is free to confirm if this data is true though


----------



## 3venflow

WON: Double or Nothing is expected to be a $1.2m gate, making it the biggest gate in pro wrestling history outside of the WWE. 13,226 tickets sold but some production holds should become available late on.

Forbidden Door will also top $1m in gate income with 15,000+ fans.

No mention of The Forum show, but I imagine that'll be at least $900k or something since it has sold 13,550+ (but tickets probably not as expensive as DoN).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Kishido said:


> Sorry to say... But absolutely deserved... While the match Jeff vs Darbin (who still looks like someone I would KO with one punch) was cool there is absolutely no good story going on. They try hard to do so with Punk and Page... But sorry Page is sidelined ever since he won the title that we can't take him seriouslz
> 
> BCC is boring as well.


no story?

you must’ve missed the 3 month build-up to the Owen tournament and then the qualifiers and finally the fact that the quarters started

do you watch AEW with your sound turned down and your head facing away from the screen or something?


----------



## Prosper

3venflow said:


> WON: Double or Nothing is expected to be a $1.2m gate, making it the biggest gate in pro wrestling history outside of the WWE. 13,226 tickets sold but some production holds should become available late on.
> 
> Forbidden Door will also top $1m in gate income with 15,000+ fans.
> 
> No mention of The Forum show, but I imagine that'll be at least $900k or something since it has sold 13,550+ (but tickets probably not as expensive as DoN).


Those are some fat gates! Love it.


----------



## Kishido

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no story?
> 
> you must’ve missed the 3 month build-up to the Owen tournament and then the qualifiers and finally the fact that the quarters started
> 
> do you watch AEW with your sound turned down and your head facing away from the screen or something?


No good story as I said


----------



## InfamousGerald

Kishido said:


> While the match Jeff vs Darbin (who still looks like someone I would KO with one punch)


No way your anonymous ass said this Lmao... Post a picture of yourself then big man


----------



## Sad Panda

Kishido said:


> No good story as I said


Maybe watch the never ending story then. You’ll get your fix there.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Kishido said:


> No good story as I said


might i recommend ‘Drive’

its a wonderful film for the critical connoisseur and has some high paced action in the latter half for those who need their adrenaline fix 

the nameless protagonist really encompasses the feeling of loneliness beautifully in the film


----------



## Mister Sinister

It will be a battle from hell trying to grow Dynamite's audience again. If I were taking over the show, I'd tell Tony Khan the truth-- we can do perfect shows for the next six months and the audience isn't going to break a million because so many potential viewers have given up at this point.

If they had hired writers from the beginning, they never would have fallen, and everytime we have seen them do over a million in the last few years would have represented a new wave of viewers. By now, AEW should be at about 2 million viewers. Every wave should have been growth instead of a one-week surge.

The show after DON is their best chance to hook the audience to come back. If that show doesn't set the hook, you're going back down to 800k.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

ClintDagger said:


> I say this with peace and love, peace & love, but the demo number for wrestling DOES NOT MATTER. Wrestling has horrific demos. Wwe, AEW, it doesn’t matter. AEW and WWE aren’t valuable to cable or broadcast networks because of the ad dollars they bring. Respectable advertisers do not want to be associated with a low income and low educated audience even if they do skew young. Wrestling brings a good number for overall viewers which helps in rights fees. That’s it. Period. Stop listening to people who don’t know the industry or are shills for AEW & WWE.


Don't bother, I've been saying this for 2 years now including statistics and people tell me I'm wrong.



Prosper said:


> How do you figure that? Please do tell. Define respectable when it comes to DTC or consumer brands. Is McDonalds/Pizza Hut/Progressive or any other middle-class promo offer not acceptable to the wrestling audience (or any TV audience for that matter) or favorable to the brands serving the ads? These are stupid rich companies that have millions to spend on brand presence. Do the ads running during a wrestling program whether AEW or WWE not come from billion-dollar companies looking for additional/new brand exposure? What brands do you expect them to attract or what messaging do you expect to be served?
> 
> 95% of humanity falls under the low to middle class. Are you looking for Lamborghini commercials served to the hardcores/casuals? Bentleys? Rolex? There's a reason why companies like that don't run TV ads often, because the wealthy are not investing their time into cable television. When's the last time you saw a Gucci commercial? Probably never. They wouldn't be wealthy if they were, they're too busy stacking paper and doing entrepreneurial things. Catering to them via alternate means. This doesn't only fall under just the pro wrestling umbrella, but almost 100% of network TV. Pilots and series are getting canceled left and right. I was a huge fan of the show "Colony" and it was canceled because the demos and overalls were shit.
> 
> The demos matter because for a brand like Geico, exposing yourself to the middle class or the young has proven to result in positive returns. Because they're the ones making the new decisions on brand choice/loyalty on the daily, the older folks are set in their ways. If not, they wouldn't continue to invest ad dollars in television. It would be a waste. AEW outside of the NBA/NFL is always in the top 5, why wouldn't that be favorable to a network considering that network execs are aware of the dwindling and dying cable audience?


It isn't a youth thing it's a thing where AEW fans don't have a lot of money, you mention Geico which is insurance, these people most likely aren't spending a lot of money on insurance.

The AEW fans pirate everything and make under the average wage, they are not attractive people to advertise to unfortunately.



Sad Panda said:


> In
> 
> 
> So… why in the heck did Fox invest so much to attain WWE Smackdown?
> 
> And why is your opinion so vastly superior to anyone elses? What are your credentials? Can you post a resume?


FOX invested so much to attain WWE Smackdown as it is the biggest wrestling show in the world and can not only bring huge wrestling stars (Roman, Brock etc) but celebrities such as The Rock also.

I totally agree with Clint by the way. My credentials? 14 years in the wrestling business.



Mister Sinister said:


> It will be a battle from hell trying to grow Dynamite's audience again. If I were taking over the show, I'd tell Tony Khan the truth-- we can do perfect shows for the next six months and the audience isn't going to break a million because so many potential viewers have given up at this point.
> 
> If they had hired writers from the beginning, they never would have fallen, and everytime we have seen them do over a million in the last few years would have represented a new wave of viewers. By now, AEW should be at about 2 million viewers. Every wave should have been growth instead of a one-week surge.
> 
> The show after DON is their best chance to hook the audience to come back. If that show doesn't set the hook, you're going back down to 800k.


I think they would have fallen but not this much. 1.4 million down to 800-900k now. Oof.


----------



## Sad Panda

Chip Chipperson said:


> FOX invested so much to attain WWE Smackdown as it is the biggest wrestling show in the world and can not only bring huge wrestling stars (Roman, Brock etc) but celebrities such as The Rock also.
> 
> I totally agree with Clint by the way. My credentials? 14 years in the wrestling business.


I respect your opinion, but unless you worked in the television biz then your opinion holds as much water as anyone else’s.

And again, I ask, why exactly are there reports coming out that Warner is not only planning a third show, but also prioritizing AEW content in the future? They are also Reporting that AEW will be a featured part of their presentation to advertisers later this month, the first presentation after the merger.


----------



## 3venflow

wrong thread


----------



## The real Axel

Do they do ban bets on this forum? Dubbalo Defence Force, when do they go back over a million? Pick a date.


----------



## Good Bunny

LifeInCattleClass said:


> why do people always invalidate a 4th or 5th biggest
> 
> are you saying 25m people is ‘nothing’?
> 
> and growing btw - its not the best, but its not horrible either
> 
> Ted Lasso alone is worth the price of the sub


There’s nothing on this app. I watched that movie with Bill Murray and Rashida Jones and it was so boring. The stuff with Denzel and the other one with Sam Jackson are also boring. These are low scale writers for sure.

I need to watch Ted Lasso. It’s apparently the best show there.

Oh yeah the other shitty show, the one with Tiffany Haddish as a detective. I fell asleep on every episode and I’m on episode 3.

There’s no great content on Apple TV. I won’t be resubbing.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Good Bunny said:


> There’s nothing on this app. I watched that movie with Bill Murray and Rashida Jones and it was so boring. The stuff with Denzel and the other one with Sam Jackson are also boring. These are low scale writers for sure.
> 
> I need to watch Ted Lasso. It’s apparently the best show there.
> 
> Oh yeah the other shitty show, the one with Tiffany Haddish as a detective. I fell asleep on every episode and I’m on episode 3.
> 
> There’s no great content on Apple TV. I won’t be resubbing.


watch Ted Lasso before you do - its mint


----------



## DaSlacker

Chip Chipperson said:


> FOX invested so much to attain WWE Smackdown as it is the biggest wrestling show in the world and can not only bring huge wrestling stars (Roman, Brock etc) but celebrities such as The Rock also.


Smackdown was most definitely considered the B show for most of its run by fans and management and had been that when FOX bought it. It was doing in the region of 2.3 million viewers and showing signs of dropping below the 2 million number on a Tuesday night. The Rock hadn't appeared on it since 2014. Roman Reigns had been attached to Raw since mid 2016. Brock and Cena didn't work it. They still paid 1 billion.


----------



## .christopher.

The real Axel said:


> Do they do ban bets on this forum? Dubbalo Defence Force, when do they go back over a million? Pick a date.


If I had to guess, the episode _after _Omega's return. Or that very episode if his return is advertised beforehand.


----------



## La Parka

The real Axel said:


> Do they do ban bets on this forum? Dubbalo Defence Force, when do they go back over a million? Pick a date.


Omega vs Punk will be on TV, is my guess. 

And it’ll break a million.


----------



## The real Axel

La Parka said:


> Omega vs Punk will be on TV, is my guess.
> 
> And it’ll break a million.


I'd watch  

Just keep Omega away from the clowns I beg.


----------



## DrEagles

And I really don’t blame the fans as much as I do the “wrestling journalists” who report and talk about ratings so much for both WWE & AEW. I’ve seen just about every episode of Dynamite live, but recently found out your viewership is not counted towards the ratings if you watch on YouTube TV, or any streaming service for that matter. So not once has my time spent watching AEW gone towards any metric used to measure viewership. There are now more streaming subscribers than cable yet the ratings only reflect those that watch cable. How does any of this make sense? Why haven’t they updated the ratings system by now?

So why do so many people care about ratings for wrestling shows in general when most people know how poor the actual rating system is? Makes no sense folks


----------



## Geeee

I think it's mainly Monday Night War nostalgia


----------



## ClintDagger

Pro wrestling as an entertainment product quite frankly isn’t very good and hasn’t been for 20 years. The more interesting aspect of it is the business side which is almost entirely based on the tv revenue they generate. Following the viewership numbers is the best way to track that. My question would be, why do people still follow pro wrestling as an entertainment medium when there are so many better options out there? I mean if you’re a kid I get it, but as an adult why watch this stuff when it is so inferior to other entertainment?


----------



## Randy Lahey

Ratings determine whether your favorite show gets cancelled or stays on air, so they are pretty damn important.


----------



## thorn123

Being in another countrys time zones, I have seen every dynamite, rampage and ppv and never watched one live. I follow ratings to check the shows won’t get cancelled.


----------



## ClassicFan

As an old school wrestling fan, I've never understood why some people allow ratings to dictate who they consider great or not. Like, simply because someone brings in ratings should not dictate that you have to like them. You either like them or you don't.


----------



## Honey Bucket

I’ve never fathomed why ratings matter as a fan. Back in 1999 sure it mattered because it was a real talking point in magazines etc, nowadays it’s utterly worthless. Just brings up arguments, bragging rights and tribal bullshit. Just horrendous. Even ten years ago it was like…can you just fuck off? 
This was coming from ‘I hate smarks’ then those same idiot cretins would argue for days over business figures and ratings stats like some boring ass schmucks, trying to downplay both companies.

NOTHING has changed.


----------



## Araxen

Because they think the WWE's 1.5 million viewers means a WAR is on!!! When in reality that is pittance to what it was back the day. It'll just take one hot angle to get over that viewer mark.The WWE should have *several* million more viewers than AEW.


----------



## RapShepard

Because people care about fitting in, in the real world. People only discount numbers when what they like is doing meh to bad numbers. There's a reason no matter what form of entertainment it is there's a subsection of hardcore fans that go

"Psh idk care if these mainstream idiots like what I'm into"

All that shit is hurt because they like some unpopular shit. It's easier to convince yourself that people that don't like what you like are dumb. Than it is to acknowledge maybe you like some shit that's meh to bad. 

Keep it wrestling, when WWE/AEW are selling out arenas and stadiums or getting big deals, numbers matter. But when it comes to TV popularity suddenly who cares about numbers.


----------



## elo

Wrestling journalists should absolutely care about television ratings, televisions ratings are the lifeblood of professional wrestling, the higher the rating the more bargaining power the wrestling company they have in negotiating broadcasting deals. Streaming numbers there is far less transparency about but the people that need to know the numbers know them, and again the higher the better when it comes to negotiating. It is the job of wrestling journalists to report and comment on television ratings.

Wrestling fans getting into tit for tat arguments over who and what and which rating nonsense is simply sad. Every professional wrestling fan should hope for every professional wrestling show to get as many eyeballs as possible period, even shows/companies they don't watch/like.


----------



## Rick Sanchez

A lot of fans seem to care about ratings only when it suits them.


----------



## sideon

Araxen said:


> Because they think the WWE's 1.5 million viewers means a WAR is on!!! When in reality that is pittance to what it was back the day. It'll just take one hot angle to get over that viewer mark.The WWE should have *several* million more viewers than AEW.


Funny how you're trying to put this on the WWE, when it was Jericho who started the ratings/demo debate. It doesn't matter what you would take since you're only one person, and if the ratings didn't matter then Tony wouldn't keep making "huge announcements" every month.


----------



## CM Buck

Same reason why parents get excited about their children's little league game even though the trophy is a you're doing super participation ribbon.

Except the people who care about ratings Don't have children so they live vicariously through their chosen medium be it movies, music or sports.

Of course there are the rare exceptions where you're paid to care about numbers. But your average wrestling ratings fan isn't a TV executive. They just want their surrogate child to do well. Especially against the rich kid from the public school in Hartford.

In short I dunno. Wrestling fans be a weird bunch.


----------



## The XL 2

There is absolutely nothing suggesting that people are watching AEW or WWE in large quantities outside of on TV. The NBA just drew its highest rated opening 1st round of the playoffs in 11 years. The NFL was doing massive ratings this year. TV isn't dead, not when it comes to live sports and entertainment. Wrestling just pissed away their audience. NFL streamed Thursday games live and free on Twitch, they drew about 30,000 per game, they draw well over 10 million on TV. If only 30K are bothering to watch free games online for football, they sure aren't going to be watching wrestling through that medium. 

This whole TV is dead thing is cope from wrestling fans. Wrestling isn't popular anymore, nothing more or less, that's why it draws shit numbers. It's live sports/entertainment and it has a historically huge built in fan base from decades and decades ago, it has a massive advantage when compared to a new IP trying to get over from scratch. They just ran off most of the people with a subpar product. No one is watching this shit anywhere else except the occasional 3 minute YouTube clip that you can skip through.


----------



## Araxen

sideon said:


> Funny how you're trying to put this on the WWE, when it was Jericho who started the ratings/demo debate. It doesn't matter what you would take since you're only one person, and if the ratings didn't matter then Tony wouldn't keep making "huge announcements" every month.


It isn't Jericho trying to start the ratings debate. The ratings debating has been going on long before you were born. It's obvious because you have no clue how the Usenet WWF vs WCW debates went down on RSPW. WWE started this ratings pittance war by throwing NXT on Wednesday nights which they got trounced on.

Quit trying pronounce you are some bastion of history knowledge of ratings in the professional wrestling world and stick to the Roman Reigns show. Maybe you should go back to Reddit where belong on circlejerks.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> watch Ted Lasso before you do - its mint


The only show making me think about resigning with them. But with 5 other services I still don’t know


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> The only show making me think about resigning with them. But with 5 other services I still don’t know


i unsubbed / i’ll resub at season 3 

i only have Netflix, Amazon prime and my local cable now

used to have Crunchyroll - but their server routers in ZA sucks. Get buffering all the time


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i unsubbed / i’ll resub at season 3
> 
> i only have Netflix, Amazon prime and my local cable now
> 
> used to have Crunchyroll - but their server routers in ZA sucks. Get buffering all the time


Add Disney+, Sky and WWEnetwork to my list.


----------



## .christopher.

Randy Lahey said:


> Ratings determine whether your favorite show gets cancelled or stays on air, so they are pretty damn important.


Simples. I don't get why this is hard to understand. Also, it can determine who gets pushed or not which is the unique thing regarding ratings for live wrestling compared to every other tv show out there.


----------



## DUSTY 74

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525055341494472704


----------



## La Parka

DUSTY 74 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525055341494472704


I can see why a podcast with a thousand followers would discourage talk about viewership


----------



## Aleisters

I watch weekly on watchwrestling (I do buy the ppv's) though. There are at least 5 of my friends that do the same and I'm sure alot of others do as well. I'm sure the ratings numbers are way off for actual viewers


----------



## Soul Rex

ClintDagger said:


> Pro wrestling as an entertainment product quite frankly isn’t very good and hasn’t been for 20 years. The more interesting aspect of it is the business side which is almost entirely based on the tv revenue they generate. Following the viewership numbers is the best way to track that. My question would be, why do people still follow pro wrestling as an entertainment medium when there are so many better options out there? I mean if you’re a kid I get it, but as an adult why watch this stuff when it is so inferior to other entertainment?


Wrestling as niche product has a loyan fan as it is, it's a really ridiculous and boring form of enterainment in general.

But people who like this shit will never go away lol


----------



## DaSlacker

Soul Rex said:


> Wrestling as niche product has a loyan fan as it is, it's a really ridiculous and boring form of enterainment in general.
> 
> But people who like this shit will never go away lol


Without stronger kayfabe it's a very niche or nerdy for of entertainment. Hence why Vince McMahon has pushed the WWE brand as its own entity and a weekly live content producer that sits below the sports leagues but is cheaper than an original scripted show that only runs for 20 weeks. Best of both worlds in the binge-watch era. It still has that carny, travelling circus appeal appeal and guilty pleasure element. You either like it or you don't, hence why during the 80's boom and late 90's boom the growth only lasted 3-5 years apiece.


----------



## Mister Sinister

On one hand, the ratings system is messed up and dvrs should have AI that prevents viewers from skipping commercials (that's essentially enabling pirating of tv channels at a price). 

On the other hand, WWE and everyone else on tv plays by the same system.

Pretending that ratings don't matter is bullshit.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526172589818667010


----------



## DaSlacker

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526172589818667010


Likely why the Khans went all with the longer matches, big roster, workrate, statistics and two weekly YouTube shows. It's a franchise/league, live sport and content heavy market thesedays. Probably not so much a must-see episodic male soap opera thing, in which growing TV viewership trumps the bigger picture.


----------



## Aedubya

When are the NBA playoffs over?


----------



## 3venflow

Warner Bros Discovery upfronts are on Wednesday:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525833678592647169


Aedubya said:


> When are the NBA playoffs over?


June 19th I believe.


----------



## omaroo

Sorry for the silly question what exactly are the upfronts and how will AEW benefit from it?


----------



## 3venflow

It's where companies pitch their products to advertisers in an attempt to get new clients. So the fact AEW is getting a push at Warner/Discovery's upfronts can only be viewed as a good sign. I have no idea if they'll have luck pitching pro wrestling as a live sport, but AEW could argue it has more sports-like elements than the competition with its greater focus on in-ring matches and rankings.

WWE is sending talents to the FOX upfronts, where they're also apparently going to try the 'live sports' route, but AEW won't because they have Dynamite/Rampage that day.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

omaroo said:


> Sorry for the silly question what exactly are the upfronts and how will AEW benefit from it?


think of it as the 'showreel' for your channel

its what every sales person is stuck in his hand with and pitches to advertisers about the key programming with the best demos, reach, buzz et all


----------



## Sad Panda

LifeInCattleClass said:


> think of it as the 'showreel' for your channel
> 
> its what every sales person is stuck in his hand with and pitches to advertisers about the key programming with the best demos, reach, buzz et all


Wait till they see that handsome devil Hook.

“Give ‘em whatever they want!”


----------



## Prized Fighter

3venflow said:


> It's where companies pitch their products to advertisers in an attempt to get new clients. So the fact AEW is getting a push at Warner/Discovery's upfronts can only be viewed as a good sign. I have no idea if they'll have luck pitching pro wrestling as a live sport, but AEW could argue it has more sports-like elements than the competition with its greater focus on in-ring matches and rankings.
> 
> WWE is sending talents to the FOX upfronts, where they're also apparently going to try the 'live sports' route, but AEW won't because they have Dynamite/Rampage that day.


AEW really should have had someone go on their behalf to present the product. It would probably be best to use some of the vets like Christian, Dustin, and Paul Wight, along with Omega. That way you can present recognizable faces and one of the biggest stars that won't be on Dynamite.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prized Fighter said:


> AEW really should have had someone go on their behalf to present the product. It would probably be best to use some of the vets like Christian, Dustin, and Paul Wight, along with Omega. That way you can present recognizable faces and one of the biggest stars that won't be on Dynamite.


lol, i mean - they’re wrestlers not sales people

they won‘t know the first thing to discuss with advertisers


----------



## Dr. Middy

Prized Fighter said:


> AEW really should have had someone go on their behalf to present the product. It would probably be best to use some of the vets like Christian, Dustin, and Paul Wight, along with Omega. That way you can present recognizable faces and one of the biggest stars that won't be on Dynamite.


I mean you could easily send Omega, The Bucks, Jade, Sting and so forth without much change to Dynamite. 

Did somewhere say they weren't sending anybody? Just curious.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage

Viewers*: 340,000
*18-49*: 0.12

#30 on cable.

This is up from last week's record low (292k/0.11/#49) but obviously still below the average in its normal timeslot.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Well, at least more people watched than last week! *😂


----------



## DammitChrist

Smackdown continuing to get mediocre ratings (after delivering awful shows for most of the last 7 months) warms my heart


----------



## Sad Panda

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage
> 
> Viewers*: 340,000
> *18-49*: 0.12
> 
> #30 on cable.
> 
> This is up from last week's record low (292k/0.11/#49) but obviously still below the average in its normal timeslot.


Was this another early time slot?

They have to stop messing with these hours, its all over the place.


----------



## 3venflow

@Sad Panda Yeah, it was. I read it's on at 7pm this week, leading into Smackdown. I still think it'll below its usual average despite a better timeslot (I think 7pm would be a better permanent slot), just because all this preempting causes a loss of viewers. But it should be up on the past two weeks.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Sad Panda said:


> Was this another early time slot?
> 
> They have to stop messing with these hours, its all over the place.


*Yes, 5:30 again. *


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage
> 
> Viewers*: 340,000
> *18-49*: 0.12
> 
> #30 on cable.
> 
> This is up from last week's record low (292k/0.11/#49) but obviously still below the average in its normal timeslot.


Still better than NXT who didn’t chart in the top 50 in prime time.

Rampage was on in the middle of the afternoon on the west coast so this is probably a decent number for the time slot


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526350114012413952


----------



## Businessman

The Legit Lioness said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526350114012413952


But but but...people are canceling their cable subscriptions at a rapid pace so how is this possible?

Or is it that only wrestling fans that are canceling but sports fans remain dedicated to traditional cable?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Businessman said:


> But but but...people are canceling their cable subscriptions at a rapid pace so how is this possible?
> 
> Or is it that only wrestling fans that are canceling but sports fans remain dedicated to traditional cable?


Context matters. Shit like this is why I can never take Brandon Thurston seriously, he constantly does this.

In 2019, the Raptors a Canadian team were NBA Champions and were one of the best teams in the league that led to viewership that year being much lower compared to years prior. 2020 and 2021 were COVID-19 impacted seasons, one was in a dome with no fans, and last year featured smaller market teams.

Ratings being up this year for basketball shouldn't be surprising compared to the years he used. If you want to see a real picture of ratings for the NBA look at 2018, 2017, 2016. 2018 NBA playoff ratings

2022 ratings are down 25% compared to 2018, the last year the NBA had a "normal" playoff season. Where we will really be able to tell gains/losses will be the NBA Finals. They peaked last decade at 31 million viewers for game 7 in 2016 which was the highest since Jordan's last NBA Finals appearing in 1998.









As you can see in 2021, the NBA was at 12.5 million. That's almost 20 million viewers gone in 6 years (that series was GOAT though) its still down 33% from 2018, which was a basic sweep that wasn't even worth watching cuz the Cavs had no chance.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526390044688269312


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526569549495209986

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Thurston says Rampage should be taken off TV and sold to a streaming service:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526569551634243584*


----------



## Whoanma

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526390044688269312
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526569549495209986
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





The Legit Lioness said:


> *Thurston says Rampage should be taken off TV and sold to a streaming service:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526569551634243584*


----------



## Sad Panda

I’d be all for that.

With the amount of schedule changes that’s been going on with Rampage and the relative shitty time slot It’s already in, I find myself missing rampage 80 percent of the time.


----------



## Prized Fighter

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Thurston says Rampage should be taken off TV and sold to a streaming service:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526569551634243584*


That is not what he said in that tweet. He said it COULD be a valuable program for major streaming services.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prized Fighter said:


> That is not what he said in that tweet. He said it COULD be a valuable program for major streaming services.


*Some of you really need help with interpreting context.*


----------



## Prized Fighter

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Some of you really need help with interpreting context.*


If you choose to read into a tweet without knowing the actual context then that is your choice, but I choose not to put words in Brandon Thurston's (or anyone) mouth. If you want more context then wait until he discusses this stuff on YouTube.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Businessman said:


> But but but...people are canceling their cable subscriptions at a rapid pace so how is this possible?
> 
> Or is it that only wrestling fans that are canceling but sports fans remain dedicated to traditional cable?


Well, pretty much the vast majority of the country is getting rid of cable. Like, yeah wrestling ratings are down and Dynamite being under a million is problematic, but it's a legitimate Fact that people are getting rid of cable in droves, and the only reason it remains alive is live sports. 





































Fading Ratings: How Far Broadcast TV Has Tumbled Since 2015


New VIP+ Analysis: The steep decline in 18-49s tuning in underscores a viewership landscape radically different today than the one of yore.




variety.com


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Rampage is on at primetime. No EXCUSES this week.*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526556643189739521


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Thurston says Rampage should be taken off TV and sold to a streaming service:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526569551634243584*


Wouldn't be a bad idea at this point.

Whatever ratings they get, trying to have a show that airs anywhere from 5pm EDT to 11pm EDT and changes by the week is just a recipe for disaster and hard for most people to keep track of. I didn't even watch the last two weeks because I was commuting home from work. 

They should try it out in a better live slot on the eventual merger of HBO Max and Discovery Plus that Warner Bros Discovery are eventually going to roll out.


----------



## CovidFan

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Rampage is on at primetime. No EXCUSES this week.*


Who can possibly care that much? It's a wrestling show that none of us have an investment in aside from feelings. Spoiler: ratings go up because they can't get much worse but they don't do peak numbers and get 400k-600k (like they do every other week they're on at the normal time).


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dr. Middy said:


> Wouldn't be a bad idea at this point.
> 
> Whatever ratings they get, trying to have a show that airs anywhere from 5pm EDT to 11pm EDT and changes by the week is just a recipe for disaster and hard for most people to keep track of. I didn't even watch the last two weeks because I was commuting home from work.
> 
> They should try it out in a better live slot on the eventual merger of HBO Max and Discovery Plus that Warner Bros Discovery are eventually going to roll out.


*They fear 8 o clock because of Smackdown and they never do well in the prime time 7 o clock slot. Rampage is a lost cause. TK put too much garbage on the show after a strong debut and showed us it's just a glorified episode of Dark.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *They fear 8 o clock because of Smackdown and they never do well in the prime time 7 o clock slot. Rampage is a lost cause. TK put too much garbage on the show after a strong debut and showed us it's just a glorified episode of Dark.*


you my sweetie are talking a lot less on this forum about Sasha / Naomi than i envisaged you would

i was expecting threads, fire and brimstone - yet its Rampage ratings

….. maybe…… maybe….

maybe you’re starting to prefer AEW


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you my sweetie are talking a lot less on this forum about Sasha / Naomi than i envisaged you would
> 
> i was expecting threads, fire and brimstone - yet its Rampage ratings
> 
> ….. maybe…… maybe….
> 
> maybe you’re starting to prefer AEW


*Because I'm using a bigger platform in Twitter to get my rants off. The whole world can see it instead of the same 20 people here.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Because I'm using a bigger platform in Twitter to get my rants off. The whole world can see it instead of the same 20 people here.*


But the 20 people here are the most interested, based off all the megathreads and issues you’ve so eagerly highligted over the last year

i mean, where does Sasha and Naomi walking out before a show and WWE doing that statement rank on the list of ‘Ghosting marko’ and ‘Shida is not injured’ list of dumpster fires?

inquiring minds need to know

 

We‘re just eager to experience the same energy


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> But the 20 people here are the most interested, based off all the megathreads and issues you’ve so eagerly highligted over the last year
> 
> i mean, where does Sasha and Naomi walking out before a show and WWE doing that statement rank on the list of ‘Ghosting marko’ and ‘Shida is not injured’ list of dumpster fires?
> 
> inquiring minds need to know
> 
> 
> 
> We‘re just eager to experience the same energy


*The truth is the 20 people in the AEW section are more fun than the 5 in the WWE section 😆*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *The truth is the 20 people in the AEW section are more fun than the 5 in the WWE section 😆*


Lollll - I KNEW IT!

we rock, wwe section sucks!

Legit loves all of us AEW fanbois ❤ ❤ ❤

edit> for you Legit, cause i know you are sad about Sasha - i hope Rampage does an average rating this week so that you can dunk on it <3 <3


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lollll - I KNEW IT!
> 
> we rock, wwe section sucks!
> 
> Legit loves all of us AEW fanbois ❤ ❤ ❤
> 
> edit> for you Legit, cause i know you are sad about Sasha - i hope Rampage does an average rating this week so that you can dunk on it <3 <3


*Thanks for your support in my time of sadness, Cow man! I and the 5 WWE posters will be enjoying NXTITTY TUESDAY if you'd like to join us!*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Thanks for your support in my time of sadness, Cow man! I and the 5 WWE posters will be enjoying NXTITTY TUESDAY if you'd like to join us!*


I was actually about to pop over and make some NXTiddy jokes xD

you read my mind XD


----------



## DammitChrist

Nah, they get the valid justification of Rampage getting its time slot changed yet again already, which clearly impacts the ratings due to its major fluctuation.

This is like the 5th change within the past 1.5+ months alone.


----------



## CovidFan

Obviously it's valid. I looked here to see what the card was at 345pm (in AZ) and I realized it had just finished. You can't expect people to be home watching at 230.


----------



## Sad Panda

The Legit Lioness said:


> *The truth is the 20 people in the AEW section are more fun than the 5 in the WWE section 😆*


A tear dropped from my eye. He loves us, he really loves us!!


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

CovidFan said:


> Obviously it's valid. I looked here to see what the card was at 345pm (in AZ) and I realized it had just finished. You can't expect people to be home watching at 230.


*It's 7pm EST this week. That's primetime.*


----------



## 3venflow

AEW listed as the premier option to marketers for Wednesdays at the Warner Discovery upfronts. Red Velvet being the poster girl is very interesting.

This event is being held at MSG and currently ongoing. Lizzo is onstage for the HBO presentation.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> AEW listed as the premier option to marketers for Wednesdays at the Warner Discovery upfronts. Red Velvet being the poster girl is very interesting.
> 
> This event is being held at MSG and currently ongoing. Lizzo is onstage for the HBO presentation.
> 
> View attachment 122687


*Really dumb not to use Jade for this. That's literally why she works here-to be a face of the company. She checks all the boxes: presence, beauty, diversity, and speaking ability.*


----------



## Prosper

3venflow said:


> AEW listed as the premier option to marketers for Wednesdays at the Warner Discovery upfronts. Red Velvet being the poster girl is very interesting.
> 
> This event is being held at MSG and currently ongoing. Lizzo is onstage for the HBO presentation.
> 
> View attachment 122687


That's awesome, more confirmation on AEW's standing with the network. Surprised they didn't use a picture of CM Punk. Red Velvet seems kinda random but good for her.


----------



## Businessman

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526941283385737216


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Businessman said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526941283385737216


one moonsault is better than no moonsault


----------



## NathanMayberry

Businessman said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526941283385737216


Not surprised... Warner are basically stuck with AEW till 2023. Take note of this and be sure to compare it with next year's


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

NathanMayberry said:


> Not surprised... Warner are basically stuck with AEW till 2023. Take note of this and be sure to compare it with next year's


I doubt warner continues with them if they keep shoving political stuff that alienates people


----------



## RoganJosh

3venflow said:


> AEW listed as the premier option to marketers for Wednesdays at the Warner Discovery upfronts. Red Velvet being the poster girl is very interesting.
> 
> This event is being held at MSG and currently ongoing. Lizzo is onstage for the HBO presentation.
> 
> View attachment 122687


Is that a hijabi girl in the Sunday image? So America has finally embraced diversity instead of making out that Muslims are all evil?


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 922,000
18-49: 0.33

It's their highest viewership for around a month, but the 18-49 was about the same as recently.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Viewership up as expected from last week's awesome show. This week's wasn't as good, but not offensive either (outside of Jericho and Deeb).*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527377419556237312


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

That's really low in the demo. Surprised since there was only 1 NBA game that didn't start until 9PM EST (Hour 2).


----------



## RainmakerV2

Oh do overall viewers matter today or no?


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite finished seventh on cable, which is lower than its usual top five spot.

NHL, which AEW usually beats, finished above it with what I assume were some important games. The 9pm NBA game did an absolutely monster rating and I'll be curious to see Dynamite QHs from hour one vs. two if they're released.


----------



## CovidFan

Nice little bounce back for them.



Showstopper said:


> That's really low in the demo. Surprised since there was only 1 NBA game that didn't start until 9PM EST (Hour 2).


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

RainmakerV2 said:


> Oh do overall viewers matter today or no?


Under a million they don't matter, over a million AEW is changing the world and is about to to put Vince McMahon out of business.


----------



## Randy Lahey

0.33 is fine. The NBA and Liga are hurting them. Any live sports are going to beat wrestling


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> Dynamite finished seventh on cable, which is lower than its usual top five spot.
> 
> NHL, which AEW usually beats, finished above it with what I assume were some important games. The 9pm NBA game did an absolutely monster rating and I'll be curious to see Dynamite QHs from hour one vs. two if they're released.
> 
> View attachment 122815


*Yes, the Rangers were riding a heavy wave of momentum after coming back from 1-3 against the favored Penguins, so all hockey fans watched their game 1 against the Hurricanes, which went to OT.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

CovidFan said:


> Nice little bounce back for them.


1 NBA game that didn't start to air until hour 2 and .33 in the demo is bad.


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> Dynamite finished seventh on cable, which is lower than its usual top five spot.
> 
> NHL, which AEW usually beats, finished above it with what I assume were some important games. The 9pm NBA game did an absolutely monster rating and I'll be curious to see Dynamite QHs from hour one vs. two if they're released.
> 
> View attachment 122815


NHL playoffs always do monster ratings. It’s why they can command such large tv deals even though their regular season games are low. Playoffs make up for it


----------



## CovidFan

Showstopper said:


> 1 NBA game that didn't start to air until hour 2 and .33 in the demo is bad.


shrug. i just find your tribalism and rare appearances in here endearing 💘💋


----------



## Seafort

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> I doubt warner continues with them if they keep shoving political stuff that alienates people


It’s likely only an issue only if they lean consistently into this.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

CovidFan said:


> shrug. i just find your tribalism and rare appearances in here very cute 💘💋


Nothing but facts, though. You think that is cute, you should check out a certain someone in the RAW thread.


----------



## Mister Sinister

I'm surprised they were up. I thought for sure the Page vs some Japanese dude plus Punk with the pro baby killing shirt would have sent them down further than last week.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> Nothing but facts, though. You think that is cute, you should check out a certain someone in the RAW thread.


if you’re talking about me, yea a show that is consistently in a 0.30 to 0.45 range, over a 3 year period, is in a better place for the future than a show that has went 0.75 to 0.45 in the same period.

Gap gets smaller. Raw declines. AEW maintains. AEW eventually wins. Simple math. AEW maintaining their 18-49. Raw losing theirs.

If Raw goes up against Liga, NBA playoffs and NHL playoffs, they’ll be in the 0.30-0.40 range. Same as Dynamite.

if AEW and Raw are close, it’s a huge win for AEW and a loss for Raw. Bc of the rights fees. You can’t have that big of gap in fees, when the 18-49 demo are that close. Ad rates don’t compute


----------



## RLT1981

NBA has been hurting both AEW and WWE hell Raw finally got a night without it and there ratings went back to normal same will happen with AEW's rating when NBA is done.


----------



## Dr. Middy

They had a better number due to the highs of the last show, and hopefully given this show was mostly good should continue that. 

I do laugh at people getting so up in arms about Punk's shirt to where they think numbers would be down because of it. Probably the same types to bitch about cancel culture too if I'd guess.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> if you’re talking about me, yea a show that is consistently in a 0.30 to 0.45 range, over a 3 year period, is in a better place for the future than a show that has went 0.75 to 0.45 in the same period.
> 
> Gap gets smaller. Raw declines. AEW maintains. AEW eventually wins. Simple math. AEW maintaining their 18-49. Raw losing theirs.
> 
> If Raw goes up against Liga, NBA playoffs and NHL playoffs, they’ll be in the 0.30-0.40 range. Same as Dynamite.
> 
> if AEW and Raw are close, it’s a huge win for AEW and a loss for Raw. Bc of the rights fees. You can’t have that big of gap in fees, when the 18-49 demo are that close. Ad rates don’t compute


You've been saying (just like you did during the last RAW/USA negotiations) that RAW will get a severe deduction, or not TV contract at all (you at least said that multiple time last time).

Third hour of RAW just beat everything on Cable AND Network TV this week:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526677497336606720
Oh, and check out this article from today. Amazon and other streaming networks are ready to jump in the RAW/WWE bidding for their streaming rights:









Do you smell what Bezos is cooking? Amazon could buy the WWE, analyst predicts


The "best case scenario" for World Wrestling Entertainment is if Amazon buys its streaming rights in the US and internationally, according to Needham.




www.cnbc.com





And RAW has gone up against the NBA all-Spring and hasn't hit this low of a number. So, you're wrong again. Just like always.

Try again. Because you're way, way, WAY off on what you're spewing here. Fact.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Not too bad this week.


----------



## Randy Lahey

That Amazon article is from Feb 2020. Bezos isn’t in charge anymore.

Raw just did a 0.38 a few weeks ago.

They lose 20% of their demo every year. They’ll eventually get down to AEW’s level.


----------



## DammitChrist

Man, I want both Dynamite and Raw (nowadays) to succeed.


----------



## RLT1981

DammitChrist said:


> Man, I want both Dynamite and Raw (nowadays) to succeed.


agreed its better for wrestling to have more then one option.

I don't really agree with the direction both company takes at times but at the end of the day its good we have 2 top wrestling companys.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

0.33 - stable against last week

still, 7th - been a long time since they were that low - looks like a competitive night though


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Number one AEW optimist Dave Meltzer had nothing positive to say about the upfronts:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527393278995230722*


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Number one AEW optimist Dave Meltzer had nothing positive to say about the upfronts:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527393278995230722*


Anybody with half a brain could and should have understood last May when the merger was announced that AEW's TV situation was far from guaranteed. The closer the merger got and the more people responsible for bringing AEW to Warner that were ousted from the company along with the newly merged corporation wanting to significantly cut costs and AEW's TV deal ending in a relatively short amount of time it only made it more of a crapshoot going forward for them. It certainly didn't take like Meltzer trying to dissect the 2022-2023 upfronts to make people realize it. Anyway I don't think TV deal ends until the end of 2023/early 2024 so next Year's upfronts would be a far better indication of what is planned and where AEW stands.


----------



## Prosper

Good to see the numbers up, wish the demo was around a 0.40 though.


----------



## Businessman

To give you an idea of how much Warner Bros. Discovery values All Elite Wrestling, read this press release

Warner Bros. Discovery Spotlights Portfolio of Sports, News, Lifestyle and Premium Entertainment in First Upfront Presentation as Combined Company | Warner Bros. Discovery


----------



## Mr316

Businessman said:


> To give you an idea of how much Warner Bros. Discovery values All Elite Wrestling, read this press release
> 
> Warner Bros. Discovery Spotlights Portfolio of Sports, News, Lifestyle and Premium Entertainment in First Upfront Presentation as Combined Company | Warner Bros. Discovery


not looking good.


----------



## Cosmo77

Some of you are taking this out of proportion,


----------



## Sad Panda

I know nothing about this stuff, nor do I really care to. Doesn’t seem ideal but they were still featured as their highlighted show on Wednesdays.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

That's surprising. Thought they would value AEW at least alittle bit more than that.


----------



## DaSlacker

I've been around to see WWF, GWF, ECW, WCW and TNA all cancelled by media giants. If it happens to AEW, then it happens. Though I'm not sure how WWE content is worth 2 billion and AEW isn't even worth 225 million. But if the media sees it that way.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

DaSlacker said:


> I've been around to see WWF, GWF, ECW, WCW and TNA all cancelled by media giants. If it happens to AEW, then it happens. Though I'm not sure how WWE content is worth 2 billion and AEW isn't even worth 225 million. But if the media sees it that way.


A significant global reach, decades of history, a plethora of content to mine, and a good relationship with advertisers tends to work in WWE's favour.

The biggest obstacle for AEW is WBD's desire to cut $3 billion in costs. That's something that a company that is soon to be due and more than likely expect should be worried about because their TV deal expires in the relatively short term making them an easy cost to cut. The other obstacle that AEW could face is that in the event of them not being a part of WBD's long term plans there isn't a vast number of venues available to them that can conceivably provide them the amount of money and level of availability that want. WWE already has domestic deals with Comcast and Fox and an international deal with Disney that extend beyond the end of AEW's current TV deal likely eliminating them as potential landing spots for AEW. Leaving only Paramount as a major that could potentially bring them on. After that they are likely looking at significant decreases in fees and reach available to them from potential landing spots.


----------



## Good Bunny

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 922,000
> 18-49: 0.33
> 
> It's their highest viewership for around a month, but the 18-49 was about the same as recently.


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Number one AEW optimist Dave Meltzer had nothing positive to say about the upfronts:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527393278995230722*


Hopefully they don't get fucked over like WCW with new owners thinking they're too good for wrestling. It's not perfect, but it's enjoyable.


----------



## La Parka

Most of the shows showcased sound like ASS. Even as bad as AEW can be, it should be more valuable than some of that shit lol.


----------



## lunchb0xx

literally what they chose to show as their top show on wen so I don't see an issue here ..better hope AEW dont get canned ..most of the posters wont have crap to cry about any more


----------



## Dr. Middy

La Parka said:


> Most of the shows showcased sound like ASS. Even as bad as AEW can be, it should be more valuable than some of that shit lol.


The amount of money being made off shows as shit as 90 Day Fiancé boggles my mind. And no lie, it has like a dozen different spinoffs, and people just eat that shit up. 

Stuff like this makes wrestling look like high brow, but people love it.


----------



## lunchb0xx

Dr. Middy said:


> The amount of money being made off shows as shit as 90 Day Fiancé boggles my mind. And no lie, it has like a dozen different spinoffs, and people just eat that shit up.
> 
> Stuff like this makes wrestling look like high brow, but people love it.


That's the casual market everyone wants AEW to go after fyi


----------



## RainmakerV2

Anderson Cooper lulz


----------



## Mister Sinister

Warner Discovery are allegedly freezing all original content at TBS and TNT. There are only a handful of shows, including Snowpiercer, AEW and American Dad. The chances of AEW being cancelled seem 50/50. AEW hasn't impressed. They aren't breaking 1.5 million viewers every week. They aren't moving towards 2 million. They are kinda shitting the bed and refusing to alter creative direction. The show has been under a million for several weeks.

WD seems intent on just cleaning house of everything. Next we will have remodeling wives of Vegas and naked storage wars airing primetime on TNT.

Where they can save real money:
-Fold HBO and Discovery+ into one service or merge the services (not companies) with Disney.
-Cancel all of the HBO DC shows, including the spin-offs from The Batman.
-Make Justice League 2 and Man of Steel 2 instead of this woke shit they are rumoured to be making.
-Only air Warner owned movies on TBS and TNT.
-Bring back MonsterVision, air cheaply licensed garbage like the old days.
-Move Adult Swim to TBS.
-Make Cartoon Network 24-hours of real cartoons.
-Air Warner owned cartoons on TBS and TNT in the mornings and early afternoon (classics that do not air on CN).
-Make some cheap horror movies like A Nightmare on Elm Street instead of expensive HBO Max shows.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Dr. Middy said:


> The amount of money being made off shows as shit as 90 Day Fiancé boggles my mind. And no lie, it has like a dozen different spinoffs, and people just eat that shit up.
> 
> Stuff like this makes wrestling look like high brow, but people love it.


It's also incredibly cheap to produce which is wildly enticing to a company hoping to significantly cut costs. As opposed to AEW which will probably be looking for $100+ million per year in rights fees. 



lunchb0xx said:


> View attachment 122838
> 
> 
> literally what they chose to show as their top show on wen so I don't see an issue here ..better hope AEW dont get canned ..most of the posters wont have crap to cry about any more


AEW is under their umbrella until the winter of 2023, the upfronts this year were never the one that mattered. It's next spring that people should be looking at as the major indication of how they see AEW.


----------



## the_flock

Mr316 said:


> not looking good.


AEW will be lucky to get any kind of deal at all.

I don't think it's unfair to suggest that AEW will be changing network every other year ala TNA.


----------



## the_flock

RapShepard said:


> Hopefully they don't get fucked over like WCW with new owners thinking they're too good for wrestling. It's not perfect, but it's enjoyable.


WCW didn't get fucked over by new owners, they simply fucked themselves over.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Number one AEW optimist Dave Meltzer had nothing positive to say about the upfronts:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527393278995230722*


scuse me…. I think i am number 1 optimist?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> scuse me…. I think i am number 1 optimist?


*Would you ever accept $100,000 per year to print lies about the quality of AEW? Wait, who am I kidding? You do it for FREE! 😀*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Would you ever accept $100,000 per year to print lies about the quality of AEW? Wait, who am I kidding? You do it for FREE! 😀*


lies are only lies if you don’t believe them with your whole heart


----------



## RainmakerV2




----------



## CovidFan

KOR losing a bunch of viewers in a singles match? Color me shocked. And lol at Cole's quarter nosediving.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Fucking hell, get Cole and Hardy off tv bruv

take the talking away from Rosa / Deeb too - just let them wrestle


----------



## DammitChrist

It’s good to see Adam Page (along with CM Punk), and a newer top-tier Japanese wrestler in Konosuke Takeshita having the highest rated quarterly segment for this week


----------



## 3venflow

The NBA game started at 9pm so hour two was always going to drop. I'd like someone to explain that incredibly sharp drop in the final quarter though since it doesn't really follow the pattern. Was the NBA game (which did a 2.2 in the 18-49 and 6.5m viewers) at an important moment there or did people just tune out for whatever reasons? Looks like female joker/Maki Ito brought in some viewers too since that was the only point of hour two where both metrics rose. Likewise, Hangman vs. Takeshita did really well and they probably could have promoted this better as an ace vs. ace main event.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Don’t ever give Deeb the mic or any TV time again. She drove off a shit ton of people.

Great job of Hangman/Takeshita building their audience even thru a commercial break. It’s easy to see what draws and what tanks. Hopefully TK sees it


----------



## Mr316

No one gives a flying fuck about Adam Cole.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> No one gives a flying fuck about Adam Cole.


Plenty of wrestling fans care about Adam Cole.

Hell, plenty of people in that crowd chanted his name; so no, you’re wrong about him.


----------



## Mr316

DammitChrist said:


> Plenty of wrestling fans care about Adam Cole.
> 
> Hell, plenty of people in that crowd chanted his name; so no, you’re wrong about him.


Okay Adam.


----------



## La Parka

Itoh is a bigger draw than Adam Cole.

Ya love to see it.


----------



## Chelsea

La Parka said:


> Itoh is bigger than Adam Cole.
> 
> Ya love to see it.


Fixed


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Never give Serena Deeb a microphone again HOLY SHIT!

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527729226874507266*


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Last weeks quarterly hours 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527730019316940802

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> Itoh is a bigger draw than Adam Cole.
> 
> Ya love to see it.


The entirety of September 2021 says otherwise (where they mostly drew 1+ millions heavily featuring Adam Cole)


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527737324729147399

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

That final quarter this week, wow. Jeff/Cole didn’t do shit, might’ve been better to go with Darby in that spot. Throwing Deeb out there with a mic probably didn’t help things either. Her strength is her in ring work, not sure why they thought giving her a relatively lengthy promo would be a good idea. I’m a fan of Deeb, but her promo skills aren’t good. Needs to be letting her actions do the talking. 


MJF/Wardlow consistently doing some of the best numbers each week is good. It’s easily the best storyline in AEW right now.

Punk/Page didn’t do well last week, but this week was a good showing in the quarters.

Jeff/Darby did relatively well last week. Good to see.

Great to see the quarters back.


----------



## Geeee

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Never give Serena Deeb a microphone again HOLY SHIT!
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527729226874507266*


That's the most dramatic drop in a quarter I've seen wow


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Geeee said:


> That's the most dramatic drop in a quarter I've seen wow


*I'm pretty sure without looking that it's worse than anything the Dumb Fucks have done with their awful tag matches. It also shows what a flop Adam Cole is in AEW.*


----------



## Mr316

Geeee said:


> That's the most dramatic drop in a quarter I've seen wow


Adam Cole Bay Bay!


----------



## DammitChrist

The Young Bucks are an awesome tag team, and yes, 1 of the most over talents on AEW (who's also thankfully still in the tournament) is a 'huge flop' but yet continues to succeed due to his great talent.

Edit:



DammitChrist said:


> There's been multiple instances where both Adam Cole and the Young Bucks have either held up the viewership pretty well, or their segments ended up receiving a fairly good number respectively.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479255448981286912
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484285286221680643
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486889869548920833
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493633453224456192
> Admittedly, I'm limited with examples for the Young Bucks for this particular thread since they've barely wrestled much this year; but I definitely recall them (and Adam Cole) receiving really good numbers back in July through September last year.
> 
> Plus, I think the Young Bucks generally had more good weeks with the ratings than poor weeks back in the pandemic era where Dynamite was aired/taped in Daily's Place.
> 
> Every wrestler unfortunately goes through underwhelming weeks at some point regarding the ratings. Besides, AEW usually struggles with Quarter 7 on a historical basis. That unusual dip for this week was an unfortunate one.
> 
> Can we not make it seem like Adam Cole and the Young Bucks are 'killing' the viewership because of some instances where the ratings dip or fluctuate for whatever reason?


The inaccurate narrative of talented guys like Cole 'killing' the ratings is incredibly misleading.


----------



## Gn1212

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I'm pretty sure without looking that it's worse than anything the Dumb Fucks have done with their awful tag matches. It also shows what a flop Adam Cole is in AEW.*


Or you could see it as the women segments killing the show. Which they kinda did if we're being honest here...


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Gn1212 said:


> Or you could see it as the women segments killing the show. Which they kinda did if we're being honest here...


*The viewers stayed for Britt vs Itoh and they even saw a gain from the previous quarter. Adam Cole and shitty promo Serena tanked the ratings to a catastrophic extent. Imagine crying about agendas every day when you tried to pull some bullshit like that.*


----------



## .christopher.

They need someone with basic common sense booking this show. What idiot gives Serena Deeb of all people significant mic time, and uses that lame midget Adam Cole in the main event? Someone who has no clue; that's who.


----------



## Aedubya

Another top class rating


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> They need someone with basic common sense booking this show. What idiot gives Serena Deeb of all people significant mic time, and uses that lame midget Adam Cole in the main event? Someone who has no clue; that's who.


I see that those other examples of Adam Cole drawing well in other past quarterly segments (which I posted twice earlier) were conveniently ignored again.

I see that the supposed-‘ratings killer’ in Adam Page being part of the highest quarterly segment for this week is also getting no-sold too.

Edit:

Anyway, I’m glad that Serena Deeb is thankfully getting pushed since she’ll have a killer match against Thunder Rosa on the biggest ppv of the year (which should showcase some of the best wrestling within the women's division in AEW).


----------



## Gn1212

The Legit Lioness said:


> *The viewers stayed for Britt vs Itoh and they even saw a gain from the previous quarter. Adam Cole and shitty promo Serena tanked the ratings to a catastrophic extent. Imagine crying about agendas every day when you tried to pull some bullshit like that.*


Or, the viewers saw that Itoh nonsense and the Deeb promo and tuned out. 😬


----------



## CovidFan

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I'm pretty sure without looking that it's worse than anything the Dumb Fucks have done with their awful tag matches. It also shows what a flop Adam Cole is in AEW.*


I haven't really paid much attention to how Cole's prior ratings have been. Though wasn't their a thread saying they were good a couple weeks ago? Despite that, the drop off for that quarter (a main event no less) is very alarming.


----------



## Wolf Mark

La Parka said:


> Itoh is a bigger draw than Adam Cole.
> 
> Ya love to see it.


She's also bigger.


----------



## The XL 2

AEW has pretty decent talent now, unlike when the company got started. A main event scene of MJF, Wardlow, Jeff Hardy, Keith Lee, CM Punk, Chris Jericho, Darby Allin would be pretty damn good, instead it's more or less Hangman, Adam Cole, and Kenny Omega when he returns. Yuck. Khan has enough national level talent that he doesn't need to stink up the main event with goofy nonsense, but alas, he's an idiot.


----------



## fabi1982

Maki Itoh showing why she should be part of any female roster. You just have to love her!!


----------



## DammitChrist

The XL 2 said:


> AEW has pretty decent talent now, unlike when the company got started. A main event scene of MJF, Wardlow, Jeff Hardy, Keith Lee, CM Punk, Chris Jericho, Darby Allin would be pretty damn good, instead it's more or less *Hangman, Adam Cole, and Kenny Omega when he returns.* Yuck. Khan has enough national level talent that he doesn't need to stink up the main event with goofy nonsense, but alas, he's an idiot.


Nope, that honestly sounds like great choices for main-eventers 

Tony Khan knows what he's doing since he made the smart choice of picking those guys to be high up on the card


----------



## zorori

Just thinking about that dramatic drop. Sure, Deeb wasn't great on the mic, but if you've watched a few recent programs -- you'd know to switch off for Hardy v Cole.

Why? Watching Jeff has been painful in the last week matches. He moves like someone who is injured and in genuine pain. Yes, he has name/pop value, but now you've seen him in a couple of matches, why would you want to watch him? The only pull he has now is some high spots... and after the Darby & AFO matches, you've probably had your fill. Keep him off TV though, let him heel up a little, get Matt on whatever Jericho has been doing, and I am sure a tag run would work -- even if it's short.

Adam Cole seems overexposed. It seems like he's been involved in a match every week, which haven't been classics, so why why would I want to see yet another Adam Cole match?

Put those two together... and well, you have your result.


----------



## Kishido

It's because of NBA and all. But the argument inks works one side.

BTW what about Rampage


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528828262595678209

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Whoanma

Mr316 said:


> Adam Cole Bay Bay!


You know it’s all about tha BOOM!


----------



## 3venflow

No surprise it was up in both metrics due to the better timeslot, even if below its former average. This week's is a standalone show with a strange showtime of 3pm (is it a holiday this Friday in the States?), which probably means an hour of Dark then 4pm start. So does it air live at 4pm or on a slight delay?

Rampage charted 13th in the cable rankings.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*That's an abysmal number for a prime time slot that was advertised a week in advance. The time slot was never the issue. The show just sucks.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Huh, it's almost like messing with the schedule/time slots nearly 10 times over the past couple of months leads to the ratings fluctuating significantly (with viewership getting hurt in the process) , and that it has nothing to do with the quality of the show itself.

Apparently, that valid explanation needs to be addressed once again.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

3venflow said:


> No surprise it was up in both metrics due to the better timeslot, even if below its former average. This week's is a standalone show with a strange showtime of 3pm (is it a holiday this Friday in the States?), which probably means an hour of Dark then 4pm start. So does it air live at 4pm or on a slight delay?
> 
> Rampage charted 13th in the cable rankings.
> 
> View attachment 123049


Looks like Guy Fieri needs to win the AEW title on Rampage


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

GNKenny said:


> Looks like Guy Fieri needs to win the AEW title on Rampage


* It's crazy that the same people who think everyone should research an obscure Japanese wrestler in a promotion that no one in the country has heard of also think advertised timeslot changes are unreasonable for the average fan.*


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> No surprise it was up in both metrics due to the better timeslot, even if below its former average. This week's is a standalone show with a strange showtime of 3pm (is it a holiday this Friday in the States?), which probably means an hour of Dark then 4pm start. So does it air live at 4pm or on a slight delay?
> 
> Rampage charted 13th in the cable rankings.
> 
> View attachment 123049


Old people really have no interest in AEW. It’s the entire difference in the WWE audience and AEW.

Look at the 50+ demo. Very low


----------



## DammitChrist

Randy Lahey said:


> Old people really have no interest in AEW. It’s the entire difference in the WWE audience and AEW.
> 
> Look at the 50+ demo. Very low


Yea, that 50+ demo group will inevitably decrease over the next several years for the former's audience.


----------



## La Parka

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, that 50+ demo group will inevitably decrease over the next several years for the former's audience.


But by then much of AEWs 18-40 demo will be the 50+ demo...

That’ll be pretty funny to be honest. The “young” bucks walking around looking like HBK does now and still doing the super kicks. Excalibur wearing a mask of an unknown Indy promotion from 40 years prior. All of this for an audience of 50 year olds

Maybe Cody and brandi will be back by then and bring their kid.


----------



## CovidFan

La Parka said:


> But by then much of AEWs 18-40 demo will be the 50+ demo...
> 
> That’ll be pretty funny to be honest.


That'd be ideal for AEW. Having older loyal fans while attracting new young ones. Sounds promising


----------



## La Parka

CovidFan said:


> That'd be ideal for AEW. Having older loyal fans while attracting new young ones. Sounds promising


Is AEW attracting new ones? The future 18-40 demo seems to be in WWE. Every time I see a wwe show it’s filled with kids and AEW is filled with dudes


----------



## CovidFan

La Parka said:


> Is AEW attracting new ones? The future 18-40 demo seems to be in WWE. Every time I see a wwe show it’s filled with kids and AEW is filled with dudes


Eventually it'll be the same with AEW. People grow up on AEW, eventually they have kids, those kids start watching with them and maybe longer. For instance, my dad watched wrestling, I became a life long fan, and my kid watched when she was like 7-13.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

CovidFan said:


> Eventually it'll be the same with AEW. People grow up on AEW, eventually they have kids, those kids start watching with them and maybe longer. For instance, my dad watched wrestling, I became a life long fan, and my kid watched when she was like 7-13.


So your plan is for the AEW fans (Majority who are single or live with their family) to have children and bring them up on AEW which will lead to them becoming fans of the product?


----------



## Sad Panda

Chip Chipperson said:


> So your plan is for the AEW fans (Majority who are single or live with their family) to have children and bring them up on AEW which will lead to them becoming fans of the product?


That’s what I’m doing with my kids. And I have two buddies whom have families that also watch AEW that have multiple children.

Im not refuting your statement that the majority are single or living with family, but I despise this notion that there are no children that attend these shows or families that watch it. When I went to Grand Slam and the show in Newark, there were a lot of children there. As many as a WWE event? No, but WWE has generations of fans. Their grandpa watched which led to their dad to watch, now his kids watch. There’s an advantage to being the main act in an already niche market. Being around since the 50’s/60’s has its advantages.


----------



## 3venflow

Could be something. The execs will see a big 14,000+ crowd.


----------



## InexorableJourney

3venflow said:


> Could be something. The execs will see a big 14,000+ crowd.
> 
> View attachment 123123


It's a trap!


----------



## RoganJosh

929k, 0.35 key demo.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RoganJosh said:


> 1.15m, 0.40 key demo.


Really or trolling? lol


----------



## La Parka

RoganJosh said:


> 1.15m, 0.40 key demo.


Solid rating.

Doesn’t surprise me. That cage match was a fantastic opener


----------



## RainmakerV2

Uh the ratings aren't out yet that's a guess. Lol


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529919635453267974

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RainmakerV2

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529919635453267974
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was gonna say if they did almost 1.2 mil and a .40 demo against celtics heat game 5 I'll eat my own underwear lol


----------



## Dark Emperor

RainmakerV2 said:


> Uh the ratings aren't out yet that's a guess. Lol


Lol thought so, the ratings wont jump almost 250k whilst the NBA is on for no apparent reason.

Very optimistic.


----------



## La Parka

RainmakerV2 said:


> Uh the ratings aren't out yet that's a guess. Lol


Awww still no 1 mill.


----------



## Dark Emperor

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529919635453267974
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Decent in comparison to last few weeks.


----------



## bdon

How many of you motherfuckers wasting your time in these ratings threads have your pockets directly tied to the ratings? Sheesh.


----------



## 3venflow

Here's the cable chart. Only the sports finished above it, so another fine day at the office.


----------



## CovidFan

Just think how good AEW would be doing if real sports didn't exist!!! Unfortunately they do and now us AEW fans have to use a (valid*) excuse to justify under one million viewers 

*™ by DC


----------



## Randy Lahey

Raw did 0.41
Dynamite did 0.35

Getting closer.


----------



## Prosper

I'm good with those numbers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

checks in, all good still?

good, checks out


----------



## La Parka

Where are the people that were shittin on hockey?










who betta?!


----------



## Dark Emperor

La Parka said:


> Where are the people that were shittin on hockey?
> 
> View attachment 123182
> 
> 
> who betta?!


Yep, Warner made the right move getting hockey rights and prioritising over AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> Where are the people that were shittin on hockey?
> 
> View attachment 123182
> 
> 
> who betta?!


24/7/365 bruv?

playoffs innit


----------



## Prosper

La Parka said:


> Where are the people that were shittin on hockey?
> 
> View attachment 123182
> 
> 
> who betta?!


Hockey still sucks outside of the brawls lol


----------



## RLT1981

haha shocking that those new japan goofs could not spike the ratings

Tony needs to stop that crap noone other then diehards watching new japan.

I watch enough wrestling as is with WWE and AEW have no desire to watch anymore so I don't give a shit about ROH and New Japan.


----------



## DammitChrist

RLT1981 said:


> *haha shocking that those new japan goofs could not spike the ratings*
> 
> Tony needs to stop that crap noone other then diehards watching new japan.


You're kidding me, right?

Your thoughts on Forbidden Door already being one of the highest-attended, and most successful AEW ppvs (ticket sales-wise) in their short history where they'll be working *heavily* with those 'New Japan goofs?'



> *I watch enough wrestling as is with WWE and AEW have no desire to watch anymore so I don't give a shit about ROH and New Japan.*


We're indifferent to your lack of interest.

Anyway, they should continue with this long-awaited partnership with NJPW


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> Where are the people that were shittin on hockey?
> 
> View attachment 123182
> 
> 
> who betta?!


Has it been beating AEW every week? Or is it just a playoffs thing? Genuinely curious, because I never pay attention to this ratings shit.

My pockets aren’t tied to them, so why should I care..?


----------



## Aedubya

Awesome again


----------



## RLT1981

DammitChrist said:


> You're kidding me, right?
> 
> Your thoughts on Forbidden Door already being one of the highest-attended, and most successful AEW ppvs (ticket sales-wise) in their short history where they'll be working *heavily* with those 'New Japan goofs?'
> 
> 
> 
> We're indifferent to your lack of interest.
> 
> Anyway, they should continue with this long-awaited partnership with NJPW


we have WWE twice a week,nxt on tuesdays,and AEW on wednesday thats plenty enough wrestling for me and add in the monthy ppvs who has time for anymore?


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> Has it been beating AEW every week? Or is it just a playoffs thing? Genuinely curious, because I never pay attention to this ratings shit.
> 
> My pockets aren’t tied to them, so why should I care..?


No idea haha.

I’m surprised to see hockey beating anything in the US tbh.


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> No idea haha.
> 
> I’m surprised to see hockey beating anything in the US tbh.


Hockey is such a shit investment. I still can’t believe TNT took it under their banner given how many times the NHL has failed to capture TV audiences over my 37 years on this Earth, and I say that as someone who watched ALL sports on ESPN growing up. Back when they highlighted the puck, and it felt like the coolest shit I’d ever seen. Haha


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Randy Lahey said:


> Raw did 0.41
> Dynamite did 0.35
> 
> Getting closer.


This is sadder than the time people here celebrated a victory over RAW during one quarter in the demo.


----------



## Randy Lahey

La Parka said:


> No idea haha.
> 
> I’m surprised to see hockey beating anything in the US tbh.


playoff hockey does pretty well. It destroyed Raw


Chip Chipperson said:


> This is sadder than the time people here celebrated a victory over RAW during one quarter in the demo.


TBS should be ecstatic with these numbers. 

Raw is about 15% higher in the demo. (And that margin is shrinking every quarter).

USA is paying Raw about 5x more to be to win 0.41 to 0.35.

That ain’t gonna cut it. Either Dynamite is worth way more, Raw worth way less, or both.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> This is sadder than the time people here celebrated a victory over RAW during one quarter in the demo.


What’s sad is that you’re still here looking up this thread as a non-watcher.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Prosper said:


> What’s sad is that you’re still here looking up this thread as a non-watcher.


It's sad to be interested in the business side of professional wrestling? I follow the ratings and attendances of every major wrestling organisation, how is that sad?


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's sad to be interested in the business side of professional wrestling? I follow the ratings and attendances of every major wrestling organisation, how is that sad?


Because you look them up to gloat over live cable when you most likely don’t even have a box, that’s sad from my POV. We all know your M.O it’s been 3 years. You’re not really here out of genuine interest lol, correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t remember you ever commenting in other ratings threads on WF or on other shows in general.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> playoff hockey does pretty well. It destroyed Raw
> 
> 
> TBS should be ecstatic with these numbers.
> 
> Raw is about 15% higher in the demo. (And that margin is shrinking every quarter).
> 
> USA is paying Raw about 5x more to be to win 0.41 to 0.35.
> 
> That ain’t gonna cut it. Either Dynamite is worth way more, Raw worth way less, or both.


Says the guy who last time said RAW would get a huge decrease from USA or no TV deal at all for them.

What happened?

They got the biggest TV deal in wrestling history.

This show was 6th for the night? WOOF. Brutally embarrassing on every level. YIKES.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Prosper said:


> Because you look them up to gloat over live cable when you most likely don’t even have a box, that’s sad from my POV. We all know your M.O it’s been 3 years. You’re not really here out of genuine interest lol, correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t remember you ever commenting in other ratings threads on WF or on other shows in general.


Of course I'm here out of genuine interest, I wouldn't check the ratings if I wasn't interested, lol. And yes, I've commented on plenty of non AEW wresting in my time here, you need to chill bro.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

RLT1981 said:


> haha shocking that those new japan goofs could not spike the ratings
> 
> Tony needs to stop that crap noone other then diehards watching new japan.
> 
> I watch enough wrestling as is with WWE and AEW have no desire to watch anymore so I don't give a shit about ROH and New Japan.


The AEW super fans will always have an excuse why the ratings are low, first it's NBA, then Hockey and in November it will be because of mid-terms. The fact of the matter is AEW has peaked and if they keep catering towards the neckbeards and hardcore fans they will stay right where they are. Casuals don't care about New Japan or ROH...I don't care for New Japan or ROH either...Also Adam Cole and company are really dragging things down too, also it doesn't help that the second hour was woeful. I turned the show off after that first hour. I like Samoa Joe, but KOR is more boring than watching paint dry


----------



## Chelsea

Wardlow >>>>>>>>>> Britt Baker


----------



## 3venflow

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That must be its best start for some time. The NBA hadn't started and the NHL playoffs also hadn't quite started yet, so I'd guess those variables factor in.

People questioned putting the cage match and Punk/Hangman promo first, but they aired that before the Heat/Celtics match so that was smart. Maximum exposure for the two main PPV matches.

The downturn pretty much came when the NBA broadcast started. That did monster ratings again (2.25 in key demo, 6.4m in total). A decent recovery for the main event after every other quarter had lost viewers, although a lot of the 18-49s had tuned out by then.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Bad drop for FTR-Rapongi Vice but the NBA game was starting around 9pm est. 

Good idea for Tony to put the best stuff on in the first hour.

Good on Joe/Kyle for bringing back some viewers after they most left in the 2nd hour


----------



## Chip Chipperson

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> The AEW super fans will always have an excuse why the ratings are low, first it's NBA, then Hockey and in November it will be because of mid-terms. The fact of the matter is AEW has peaked and if they keep catering towards the neckbeards and hardcore fans they will stay right where they are. Casuals don't care about New Japan or ROH...I don't care for New Japan or ROH either...Also Adam Cole and company are really dragging things down too, also it doesn't help that the second hour was woeful. I turned the show off after that first hour. I like Samoa Joe, but KOR is more boring than watching paint dry


Don't forget the war in the Ukraine, COVID, St Patricks Day, Christmas, Halloween, Thanksgiving, any elections and the real housewives series.


----------



## Sad Panda

Randy Lahey said:


> Bad drop for FTR-Rapongi Vice but the NBA game was starting around 9pm est.
> 
> Good idea for Tony to put the best stuff on in the first hour.
> 
> Good on Joe/Kyle for bringing back some viewers after they most left in the 2nd hour


Absolutely, that’s a nice gain of viewers for the main event. That was a heck of a match too so I’m glad it was able to attain more eyeballs.

Also as others have expressed that was a smart maneuver putting a lot of the main storylines during hour 1 before hockey and basketball started.


----------



## CovidFan

Putting an actual believable man in the main event lifted ratings a bit. I'd have never thought . Kudos to Joe.


----------



## DammitChrist

CovidFan said:


> Putting an actual believable man in the main event lifted ratings a bit. I'd have never thought . Kudos to Joe.


Hey, Kyle O’Reilly was in that main event too (as well as Adam Cole), and he’s one of the best wrestlers in the company atm.

He deserves credit too since that banger of a main event won back some of the audience in the last part of the 2nd hour


----------



## CovidFan

Yes, KOR was there too. As I said, kudos to Joe for bringing some realism and intensity to that quarter.


----------



## zkorejo

Could have used ROH tag title match time to build TNT title match instead.

Don't like how TNT title feud isn't getting tv time since last 2-3 weeks.


----------



## 3venflow

Looking at the UK ratings for Dynamite this week, is this what Nielsen is planning with its updated model? Showing the numbers from different platforms including streaming?

148,000 viewers
62,000 as it aired on 4
16,000 within same day
70,000 on-demand on the ITV Hub or DVR

Shows how dominant streaming/on-demand is these days. Keller often posted the AEW +3 and +7 day numbers but I don't have a Torch sub to see if he's still doing it. Rampage has a lot of people who watch it in the days after.


----------



## 3venflow

In it's 6:30pm timeslot on Friday, Rampage did 341,000 viewers and 0.14 in the key demo (#26 on cable).

That's down from the week before in both metrics and above the two weeks prior to that in both metrics.

Does anyone know when it returns to its permanent timeslot? How many more NBA playoff games will there be on Friday nights?


----------



## CovidFan

Game 3 is Wednesday June 8
Game 4 is Friday June 10

NBA done on Wed/Fri after that.

So in the words of LegitLionness(sp?) YOU HAVE NO EXCUSE THIS WEEK!!!


----------



## 3venflow

Airing at 11:34pm, the Road to Double or Nothing half hour special on TNT did 258,000 viewers and 0.09 in the key demo on Friday. It ranked 62nd on cable for the day.


----------



## GarpTheFist

3venflow said:


> In it's 6:30pm timeslot on Friday, Rampage did 341,000 viewers and 0.14 in the key demo (#26 on cable).
> 
> That's down from the week before in both metrics and above the two weeks prior to that in both metrics.
> 
> Does anyone know when it returns to its permanent timeslot? How many more NBA playoff games will there be on Friday nights?


Yikes is that the lowest number? Whats the lowest its done?


----------



## 3venflow

GarpTheFist said:


> Yikes is that the lowest number? Whats the lowest its done?


Total viewers? Third lowest. Lowest was 292k in the afternoon timeslot, second lowest was 340,000 the week after that. It's changing timeslots every week at the moment.


----------



## GarpTheFist

3venflow said:


> Total viewers? Third lowest. Lowest was 292k in the afternoon timeslot, second lowest was 340,000 the week after that. It's changing timeslots every week at the moment.


Doesn't rampage in its usual slot still lose to nxt often?


----------



## 3venflow

GarpTheFist said:


> Doesn't rampage in its usual slot still lose to nxt often?


Total viewers: yes. Key demo/Nielsen rankings: no. NXT is on in primetime and Rampage at 10pm, or else I think their viewership would be quite similar.


----------



## GarpTheFist

3venflow said:


> Total viewers: yes. Key demo/Nielsen rankings: no. NXT is on in primetime and Rampage at 10pm, or else I think their viewership would be quite similar.


Still pretty sad that aew's B show gets beat by wwe's c show(and developmental at that) while having no talent of value while rampage still gets top names


----------



## DammitChrist

GarpTheFist said:


> Still pretty sad that aew's B show gets beat by wwe's c show(and developmental at that) while having no talent of value while rampage still gets top names


Uh no, it's really not 'sad' when the frequent schedule changes at poor time slots clearly impacts their ratings.


----------



## GarpTheFist

DammitChrist said:


> Uh no, it's really not 'sad' when the frequent schedule changes at poor time slots clearly impacts their ratings.


Lol out of curiosity, how old are you?


----------



## DammitChrist

GarpTheFist said:


> Lol out of curiosity, how old are you?


What does that have to with anything here?


----------



## GarpTheFist

DammitChrist said:


> What does that have to with anything here?


Because you always try to desperately defend aew while getting sort of bullied for it so it made me feel bad, if i know you are an adult, I'll stop feeling bad 😂


----------



## GarpTheFist

Guess I'm not getting an answer lol


----------



## ThirdMan

DammitChrist said:


> Uh no, it's really not 'sad' when the frequent schedule changes at poor time slots clearly impacts their ratings.


The counterpoint to that is if it was _truly_ valued by Turner, Rampage probably wouldn't get shuffled around the schedule so frequently.

I'm not speaking to the relative quality of the show, mind you, because I realize some folks think it's better than Dynamite some weeks, and that fine. Rampage is just not a high priority for Turner, is all.


----------



## .christopher.

GarpTheFist said:


> Guess I'm not getting an answer lol


No, but you are getting his signature move: the eye roll emoji. You should be honoured.


----------



## DammitChrist

GarpTheFist said:


> Guess I'm not getting an answer lol


Oh, I was more interested in watching AEW Dark and other wrestling content.

Anyway, I'm 24.


----------



## CovidFan

ThirdMan said:


> Rampage is just not a high priority for Turner, is all.


Hasn't it been getting shuffled due to NBA? You can't fault Rampage for having to make way for something as huge as the NBA playoffs. It's one of the times DC's right about a "valid" excuse/reason.


----------



## ThirdMan

CovidFan said:


> Hasn't it been getting shuffled due to NBA? You can't fault Rampage for having to make way for something as huge as the NBA playoffs. It's one of the times DC's right about a "valid" excuse/reason.


If it was a higher priority, it would be on a channel that would allow it to not be pre-empted due to NBA playoffs, or anything else, most of the time. As Dynamite is now, on TBS.


----------



## Randy Lahey

I don’t think Rampage has really caught on. Despite it being a live show this week, that is a very low number. 

I do wonder, if TK doesn’t get a ROH tv deal, if he doesn’t just make Rampage the ROH show. If it’s a completely different show perhaps more people will watch than it being seen as basically a nothing hour of AEW


----------



## Not Lying

ThirdMan said:


> If it was a higher priority, it would be on a channel that would allow it to not be pre-empted due to NBA playoffs, or anything else, most of the time. As Dynamite is now, on TBS.


Or Rampage is exceeding expectations, which is why they kept, and they think it’s a show that can be moved around and lose viewership yet still be profitable to them. not many shows have dedicated fans like wrestling.


----------



## ThirdMan

The Definition of Technician said:


> Or Rampage is exceeding expectations, which is why they kept, and they think it’s a show that can be moved around and lose viewership yet still be profitable to them. not many shows have dedicated fans like wrestling.


The mental gymnastics you guys engage in sometimes.


----------



## Not Lying

ThirdMan said:


> The mental gymnastics you guys engage in sometimes.


Ok, then why did they keep it? why don't they just cancel it? wasn't there rumor it will move to TBS too, yet TNT didn't let it go. 

It's a different perspective that a hater won't see.


----------



## ThirdMan

The Definition of Technician said:


> Ok, then why did they keep it? why don't they just cancel it? wasn't there rumor it will move to TBS too, yet TNT didn't let it go.
> 
> It's a different perspective that a hater won't see.


You take discussions about these things way too personally. Name-calling? Really?

Rampage is a show that's performing well enough, relative to other shows on TNT, to not get cancelled. But if it was a _high_ priority for Turner right now, it would be put on a station and timeslot that would keep it from regularly being shuffled around the schedule. Just as Dynamite has. Because Dynamite is clearly a higher priority for Turner. We'll see how it goes for Rampage in the months (or years) to come. Perhaps things will change.

And that'll be all, on my end of things. You may continue to argue that Rampage is a high priority for Turner, if you are so inclined.


----------



## Not Lying

ThirdMan said:


> You take discussions about these things way too personally. Name-calling? Really?
> 
> Rampage is a show that's performing well enough, relative to other shows on TNT, to not get cancelled. But if it was a _high_ priority for Turner right now, it would be put on a station and timeslot that would keep it from regularly being shuffled around the schedule. Just as Dynamite has. Because Dynamite is clearly a higher priority for Turner. We'll see how it goes for Rampage in the months (or years) to come. Perhaps things will change.
> 
> And that'll be all, on my end of things. You may continue to argue that Rampage is a high priority for Turner, if you are so inclined.


No worse than you saying mental gymnastics for a different perspective. Rampage could be bumped to another channel but maybe they want to keep that viewership for TNT. It was a top 5-10 show when it had no competition and regular schedule (10pm no less).


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

I’m posting this here since they went head to head with AEW Double or Nothing


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532077023547764736

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rankles75

Considering the lack of NBA, and the publicity from the MJF work/shoot/thing, there’s no excuse for a sub 1m rating for tonight’s show.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Regarding Rampage, I legit cannot remember what time its on it changes so goddamn much, and I missed the last like 4 or so due to work.

If they're going to shift it around constantly, it's going to do bad. I can see if stabilizing in its usual number after the NBA Playoffs


----------



## GarpTheFist

Rankles75 said:


> Considering the lack of NBA, and the publicity from the MJF work/shoot/thing, there’s no excuse for a sub 1m rating for tonight’s show.


Agreed. I'm expecting a 1m because punk is champion and post ppv bump


----------



## Aedubya

Still 0.9 or slightly above


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Those are some spikes, if you consider Punk won a championship during all this


----------



## fabi1982

Rankles75 said:


> Considering the lack of NBA, and the publicity from the MJF work/shoot/thing, there’s no excuse for a sub 1m rating for tonight’s show.


Honestly with no NBA and the MJF stuff everything below a 1.2m should be concidered a ok at max (just look at the graph from @LifeInCattleClass and the general buzz of everyone in here). It always sounded like the NBA had a big impact and this should reflect with more than just 80k more viewers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Honestly with no NBA and the MJF stuff everything below a 1.2m should be concidered a ok at max (just look at the graph from @LifeInCattleClass and the general buzz of everyone in here). It always sounded like the NBA had a big impact and this should reflect with more than just 80k more viewers.


i dunno - doesn’t a hot angle normally mean next week’s ratings will go up?

that is usually how it worked out

i do think it will be above a million though - doubt it’ll reach 1.2


----------



## Sad Panda

1.08 is my guess.


----------



## Mr316

fabi1982 said:


> Honestly with no NBA and the MJF stuff everything below a 1.2m should be concidered a ok at max (just look at the graph from @LifeInCattleClass and the general buzz of everyone in here). It always sounded like the NBA had a big impact and this should reflect with more than just 80k more viewers.


It’s gonna take more than one show to get to 1.2 million.


----------



## just_one

MJF pipebomb wont affect yesterday show but the show next week i think, knowing AEW they wont even talk about it unfortunally


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> I’m posting this here since they went head to head with AEW Double or Nothing
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532077023547764736
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank goodness for that NBA ratings update I was pretty worried that Game 7 of the Eastern Conference finals would struggle "against" a wrestling PPV. Especially with all that MJF chatter. It's really fortunate that the NBA survived such a scare.


----------



## fabi1982

Mr316 said:


> It’s gonna take more than one show to get to 1.2 million.


And @LifeInCattleClass: but do you both think that the NBA has such a small impact in the ratings, when over the last 8 weeks it was „such a big impact“. So there has to be 250k viewers out of those millions who now have free time again and an interest in such an edgy product?!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> And @LifeInCattleClass: but do you both think that the NBA has such a small impact in the ratings, when over the last 8 weeks it was „such a big impact“. So there has to be 250k viewers out of those millions who now have free time again and an interest in such an edgy product?!


i dunno if it had a ‘big impact’

maybe 50k to 100k people?

i would say the time shifts had a bigger impact on rampage than anything else for instance


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i dunno if it had a ‘big impact’
> 
> maybe 50k to 100k people?
> 
> i would say the time shifts had a bigger impact on rampage than anything else for instance


Bbbbbut thats what the people in here told everyone  

But I am with you, the impact might not be that big.

Still I am dissapointed if it is below 1.2m


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Bbbbbut thats what the people in here told everyone
> 
> But I am with you, the impact might not be that big.
> 
> Still I am dissapointed if it is below 1.2m


lol, i can‘t speak for ‘people’ xD

these are just my own opinions


----------



## RoganJosh

Are ratings coming out tonight or is there a delay due to the holiday weekend?

Do we think they will draw over a million? Was there NBA competition?


----------



## RainmakerV2

If they can't do a mil and beat RAWs demo this week I'm not sure it's ever gonna happen


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532452558949826565

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

A 0.02 behind RAW in the key demo. This seemed like their best opportunity to beat RAW for a while. Maybe the momentum carries over to next week. It was still their highest in that metric since March.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Raw on a Holiday beat Dynamite in the demo. Holy shit.


----------



## Mr316

Good. Now keep the momentum going with the MJF story and you’ll be over 1 million.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Off a PPV with Punk winning the belt and the MJF story and still can't do a mil.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW ranked second on cable behind only the NHL Conference Finals.


----------



## Sad Panda

They’re gonna have to keep the momentum going next week with a big
Time show.

but yes that’s a bummer of a rating for sure


----------



## RoganJosh

RainmakerV2 said:


> Off a PPV with Punk winning the belt and the MJF story and still can't do a mil.


Does it light a fire in your ass like a spicy curry?


----------



## GarpTheFist

Punk wins title, post ppv bump and all the MJF hype and they still can't get to a million? How sad 😂 and here i was thinking it'd easily be a million. They've really plateaued if even all that doesn't get them a million.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## Jeru The Damaja

Damn, 31,000 viewers away from being a successful company.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Punk not a draw confirmed

bring back Hangman!


----------



## RoganJosh

3venflow said:


> AEW ranked second on cable behind only the NHL Conference Finals.
> 
> View attachment 123728


Who even watches shitty hockey? Seems a bit of a girly sport tbh.


----------



## TD Stinger

A decent bump coming off of DON and no NBA competition for the 1st time in months. Though next week they’ll be against Game 3 of the NBA Finals.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

GarpTheFist said:


> Punk wins title, post ppv bump and all the MJF and they still can't get to a million? How sad 😂 and here i was thinking it'd easily be a million. They've really plateaued if even all that doesn't get them a million.



Yup, I was expecting over a million, maybe even close to 1.1 million with only the NHL on as major sports competition. Of course, many of the people who know about the MJF behind the scenes situation are mostly the same people that would normally watch the show anyways.


----------



## RoganJosh

GarpTheFist said:


> Punk wins title, post ppv bump and all the MJF and they still can't get to a million? How sad 😂 and here i was thinking it'd easily be a million. They've really plateaued if even all that doesn't get them a million.


Does it burn your arse?


----------



## fabi1982

So thats the new wrestling boom?


----------



## 3venflow

RoganJosh said:


> Who even watches shitty hockey? Seems a bit of a girly sport tbh.


NHL playoffs have been doing really well lately and the networks must be thrilled with them. The regular season games seem to have only a fraction of the interest though - I recall Rampage beating them at points in the Nielsen charts.


----------



## RainmakerV2

RoganJosh said:


> Does it burn your arse?



You're the one who seems to care a lot lol


----------



## Whoanma

fabi1982 said:


> So thats the new wrestling boom?


You know it’s all about tha boom.


----------



## GarpTheFist

fabi1982 said:


> So thats the new wrestling boom?


Nah this week doesn't count, boom starts next week. they'll bounce back with 2m next week, just you watch hater.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Not a good number with everything it has going into it. Quarter hour ratings will tell the story, but a lot of the show on paper didn’t look super interesting. A few tag matches, and a Mox/Garcia main event match which I think has already been done a couple times at least?

It was a mistake advertising Punk for the 6-man tag and then leading that into a promo, rather than advertising the promo, saving it for the mid-point of the show and setting up the 6-man for the main event there if they HAD to do that 6-man (which they didn’t). Could’ve just had the Punk promo leading to the reveal of Tanahashi, and then either saved MJF for the end of the show OR have him open the show.

While I did enjoy the show and was hyped for some things, the actual card of matches mostly looked uninteresting. Hopefully the quality of this show and the MJF promo leads to a big increase next week. They can’t advertise MJF but MJF can certainly “advertise” himself.


----------



## Derek30

RoganJosh said:


> Who even watches shitty hockey? Seems a bit of a girly sport tbh.


You shut your fucking mouth!


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

fabi1982 said:


> So thats the new wrestling boom?


Technically, it would be the week after that would see any sort of increase. 

However, I assume MJF is now off of television for the foreseeable future and the NBA Finals are back next week. I think it's quite obvious that any sort of 'boom' that happens in modern day wrestling isn't going to be reflected in any ratings and that goes for both AEW and WWE. This isn't 1998 anymore where the only way to actually watch wrestling was via live cable. 

I've seen enough buzz on social media from places I've never seen talk about wrestling to know that the storyline has the _makings_ of being successful for AEW. It's just how they handle it from here. 

I would say 969,000 isn't a terrible number, but I think they should be disappointed it wasn't more. 14,000 seater, Punks debut as champion, announcement of an MJF promo etc., The minute by minute will be interesting though. Because if they had over a million viewers for parts of that first hour that involved Punk and MJF, then we can say they done their job. If it then fell of a cliff throughout that second hour then that would level out the average.


----------



## Sad Panda

GarpTheFist said:


> Nah this week doesn't count, boom starts next week. they'll bounce back with 2m next week, just you watch hater.


I know you’re kidding. They do certainly however need to ride this momentum. If they string together a bunch of shows that are killer then maybe that rating starts to increase.

We shall see.


----------



## .christopher.

just_one said:


> MJF pipebomb wont affect yesterday show but the show next week i think, knowing AEW they wont even talk about it unfortunally


You are correct, sir. The ratings here will be for CM Punk becoming champion. Next weeks will be because of MJF. We'll see if he does the business then.


RainmakerV2 said:


> Off a PPV with Punk winning the belt and the MJF story and still can't do a mil.


MJF is a non factor this week. Next week is when we'll see.

about Punk, though. Like Bryan, how could they not see this coming? They killed whatever attraction they had left with their counter productive booking. This was expected.


----------



## GarpTheFist

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Not a good number with everything it has going into it. Quarter hour ratings will tell the story, but a lot of the show on paper didn’t look super interesting. A few tag matches, and a Mox/Garcia main event match which I think has already been done a couple times at least?
> 
> It was a mistake advertising Punk for the 6-man tag and then leading that into a promo, rather than advertising the promo, saving it for the mid-point of the show and setting up the 6-man for the main event there if they HAD to do that 6-man (which they didn’t). Could’ve just had the Punk promo leading to the reveal of Tanahashi, and then either saved MJF for the end of the show OR have him open the show.
> 
> While I did enjoy the show and was hyped for some things, the actual card of matches mostly looked uninteresting. Hopefully the quality of this show and the MJF promo leads to a big increase next week. They can’t advertise MJF but MJF can certainly “advertise” himself.


Very much agreed. When i heard that punk was going to be in a random 6man tag, i was disappointed. Just advertise a promo segment, that's what you do when you get a new world champion, this company can't even do something as basic as that? Just have punk say his stuff then be interrupted or jumped by tanahashi to set up the feud and get yourself a hot hot opener.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Sad Panda said:


> I know you’re kidding. They do certainly however need to ride this momentum. If they string together a bunch of shows that are killer then maybe that rating starts to increase.
> 
> We shall see.


I wont hold my breath. They cut off his mic and pretended nothing happend so my guess is we may not see mjf next week and anything other than him doesn't intrest me because the other thing of intrest(punk) is going to be in a random heatless feud with someone i don't know and dont want to see. 

But I'm hope I'm wrong because i really do want to see mjf next week


----------



## Geert Wilders

This is AEWs new normal. Let’s face it.


----------



## Kentucky34

AEW has hit its ceiling.


----------



## fabi1982

Jeru The Damaja said:


> Technically, it would be the week after that would see any sort of increase.
> 
> However, I assume MJF is now off of television for the foreseeable future and the NBA Finals are back next week. I think it's quite obvious that any sort of 'boom' that happens in modern day wrestling isn't going to be reflected in any ratings and that goes for both AEW and WWE. This isn't 1998 anymore where the only way to actually watch wrestling was via live cable.
> 
> I've seen enough buzz on social media from places I've never seen talk about wrestling to know that the storyline has the _makings_ of being successful for AEW. It's just how they handle it from here.
> 
> I would say 969,000 isn't a terrible number, but I think they should be disappointed it wasn't more. 14,000 seater, Punks debut as champion, announcement of an MJF promo etc., The minute by minute will be interesting though. Because if they had over a million viewers for parts of that first hour that involved Punk and MJF, then we can say they done their job. If it then fell of a cliff throughout that second hour then that would level out the average.


But all you wrestling geniuses in here wrote it on the wall since Sunday? And that kind of explanation „if x does good all is fine“, how do you invest people into the product when they can see „x“ on youtube or other social media? The show needs to be good as a whole and thats what Dynamite is lacking since day 1. TKs coked up nose only has fire for half an hour max, thats not enough.

Those 900k dont care about quality, they will parade everything AEW on their sholders and tell everyone it is the second coming of crist. But this basically is the same 900k for two years now and TK doesn seem to care that he has every card in his hand, he is taking more and more cards and cant see what he had anymore.

I am happy for a boom period, because it will make WWE better in the process, but this sadly wont happen. And afraid that the execs where there to see this show…doesnt help getting more money thats for sure.


----------



## GarpTheFist

.christopher. said:


> You are correct, sir. The ratings here will be for CM Punk becoming champion. Next weeks will be because of MJF. We'll see if he does the business then.
> 
> MJF is a non factor this week. Next week is when we'll see.
> 
> about Punk, though. Like Bryan, how could they not see this coming? They killed whatever attraction they had left with their counter productive booking. This was expected.


Say whatever you want about wwe, they know how to make a star ACTUALLY feel like a star. If edge had returned in aew then he'd be feuding with lower carders and nobodys instead of main eventers, robbing him of all his star power. His first feud with orton right off the bat was the best thing in the company. Thats how bryan and punk should've been booked from the jump. If they were, they could likely be getting 1.2m today and might i dare say, easily at that.


----------



## RainmakerV2

.christopher. said:


> You are correct, sir. The ratings here will be for CM Punk becoming champion. Next weeks will be because of MJF. We'll see if he does the business then.
> 
> MJF is a non factor this week. Next week is when we'll see.
> 
> about Punk, though. Like Bryan, how could they not see this coming? They killed whatever attraction they had left with their counter productive booking. This was expected.



He's a non factor? He was the biggest story in wrestling this weekend and was advertised 12 hours before the show started. It's not like he just popped up lmao.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

GarpTheFist said:


> Very much agreed. When i heard that punk was going to be in a random 6man tag, i was disappointed. Just advertise a promo segment, that's what you do when you get a new world champion, this company can't even do something as basic as that? Just have punk say his stuff then be interrupted or jumped by tanahashi to set up the feud and get yourself a hot hot opener.


It’s frustrating because I really want AEW to grow their audience, but as long as they seem to prioritize heavily advertising matches over promos 90% of the time, they’ll be stuck in their current situation. Which isn’t even bad necessarily. Tony can do what he’s doing, always be #2, and if he’s fine with that then good for him. I guess I’m just hoping for too much.

I’m not even saying don’t do the matches necessarily and certainly some can be advertised, but as you pointed out Punk just won the belt. In fact it’s the top SINGLES title in the company. The first thing he does? Wrestles some random 6-man tag so he gets to team with FTR. Thing is, a Punk/FTR team I can get behind but to just throw it out there as the first thing Punk does a champ is really poor booking. Matches can lead well into promos, but that wasn’t the time for it.


----------



## GarpTheFist

#BadNewsSanta said:


> It’s frustrating because I really want AEW to grow their audience, but as long seems to prioritize heavily advertising matches over promos 90% of the time, they’ll be stuck in their current situation. Which isn’t even bad necessarily. Tony can do what he’s doing, always be #2, and if he’s fine with that then good for him. I guess I’m just hoping for too much.
> 
> I’m not even saying don’t do the matches necessarily and certainly some can be advertised, but as you pointed out Punk just won the belt. In fact it’s the top SINGLES title in the company. The first thing he does? Wrestles some random 6-man tag so he gets to team with FTR. Thing is, a Punk/FTR team I can get behind but to just throw it out there as the first thing Punk does a champ is really poor booking. Matches can lead well into promos, but that wasn’t the time for it.


Yeah they need to take a page of wwe's booking and sometimes have promos lead to matches. It can add unpredictably to the show which is heavily needed as they feel the need to advertise literally everything in advance.


----------



## Dr. Middy

RoganJosh said:


> Who even watches shitty hockey? Seems a bit of a girly sport tbh.


They're some of the toughest athletes out there. They're skating at a hell of a quick pace constantly, will get into fights, get boarded (basically when one guys shoves another into the outer edge of the rink), and get a ton of bumps, bruises, and injuries. A lot of them will play through that shit too, hell there's been many stories of guys getting their faces busted up, going to the back for some stiches, then coming back and continuing to play. 

Hockey rules.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

Showstopper said:


> Raw on a Holiday beat Dynamite in the demo. Holy shit.


NEW BOOM PERIOD!!!!


----------



## Randy Lahey

0.40 is a good number. It’s too bad The Match was competing against it. That’s what kept it lower. Brady/Mahomes/Rodgers/Allen all playing golf is a draw. They are both competing for the same main demo (males 18-49)

Raw’s 50+ is a 0.74
Dynamite 50+ is a 0.34

Old viewers just don’t like watching Dynamite. AEW is a promotion for the young which also explains why Rampage does poor on Friday nights.


----------



## CovidFan

Dr. Middy said:


> They're some of the toughest athletes out there. They're skating at a hell of a quick pace constantly, will get into fights, get boarded (basically when one guys shoves another into the outer edge of the rink), and get a ton of bumps, bruises, and injuries. A lot of them will play through that shit too, hell there's been many stories of guys getting their faces busted up, going to the back for some stiches, then coming back and continuing to play.
> 
> Hockey rules.


"This ain't ballet, son" ???

Obligatory lol @ that number. Next week won't get a big bump because of NBA. I expect it to go down slightly


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

LOL at the excuses from one guy. Clown'd. Love it.


----------



## fabi1982

Showstopper said:


> LOL at the excuses from one guy. Clown'd. Love it.


Something I learned about AEW fans, there is always an excuse on hand. First its the over use of words like „greatest“ „all time“ „boom period“ and then if that doesnt play out as it should, its excuses.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Showstopper said:


> LOL at the excuses from one guy. Clown'd. Love it.


Thats what this thread is, full of excuses and desperation to justify aew's existence. The people saying next week will have better ratings because of mjf will blame it on the nba when it doesn't happen.


----------



## Randy Lahey

AEW just needs to maintain their demo in the 0.35-0.40 range. Raw will fall below it. That is inevitable if you look at the trends. 

Raw did a 0.42 against no NFL or NBA.

That projects to 0.32- 0.40 vs NFL this fall most likely. It’ll be a disappointment if Dynamite isn’t consistently beating Raw in the fall.

Dynamite’s 18-49 is stable. Raw’s is dropping every year. Doing worse now than last year in the Thunderdome. Just stay the course. Keep selling out arenas.


----------



## RoganJosh

fabi1982 said:


> Something I learned about AEW fans, there is always an excuse on hand. First its the over use of words like „greatest“ „all time“ „boom period“ and then if that doesnt play out as it should, its excuses.


AEW fans? If you aren't one yourself then why are you posting on here you dumb clown. This forum is a total joke, I find it hard to believe that the so called moderators allow this shit on here. Where are they all, watching gay porn or something?


----------



## NathanMayberry

So apparently Adam Cole’s forehead is out… this is the new jerk 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fabi1982

RoganJosh said:


> AEW fans? If you aren't one yourself then why are you posting on here you dumb clown. This forum is a total joke, I find it hard to believe that the so called moderators allow this shit on here. Where are they all, watching gay porn or something?


So name calling then? Hope @Firefromthegods puts you on the bench for a week to cool your head off.


----------



## Sad Panda

Looking forward to seeing the quarterly numbers. When do those usually come out?


----------



## RoganJosh

fabi1982 said:


> So name calling then? Hope @Firefromthegods puts you on the bench for a week to cool your head off.


Who are you to tell @Firefromthegods what to do? Name calling? Mate I see you you on here all the time just non-stop criticising. If you don't like the product why are you using so much energy to talk shite? Go find something you do enjoy. You're the one that needs to spend time on the bench, @Firefromthegods or whoever else sort this place out and get rid of these clowns. I know you lot don't get paid for it so probably don't see the point in doing a thorough job.


----------



## CovidFan

fabi1982 said:


> So name calling then? Hope @Firefromthegods puts you on the bench for a week to cool your head off.


soft af


----------



## RoganJosh

CovidFan said:


> soft af


Tell me about it. He sounds like a loser grass.


----------



## Mr316

Yeah…AEW is in big trouble…


They sold out The Forum for their weekly episode.
They sold almost 8000 tickets for a a damn episode of Rampage this Friday.

…but yeah…AEW is in big trouble because 969,000 viewers watched the show and not 1 million. 😂


----------



## omaroo

Mr316 said:


> Yeah…AEW is in big trouble…
> 
> 
> They sold out The Forum for their weekly episode.
> They sold almost 8000 tickets for a a damn episode of Rampage this Friday.
> 
> …but yeah…AEW is in big trouble because 969,000 viewers watched the show and not 1 million. 😂


Back to be a face I see..wonder for how long


----------



## DammitChrist

GarpTheFist said:


> Punk wins title, post ppv bump and all the MJF hype and they still can't get to a million? How sad 😂 and here i was thinking it'd easily be a million. They've really plateaued if even all that doesn't get them a million.


Sure, they 'plateaued' even though they did their highest young demographic numbers since March 23rd, and their highest overall viewership since April 13th


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> Yeah…AEW is in big trouble…
> 
> 
> They sold out The Forum for their weekly episode.
> They sold almost 8000 tickets for a a damn episode of Rampage this Friday.
> 
> …but yeah…AEW is in big trouble because 969,000 viewers watched the show and not 1 million. 😂


man, this face turn has been great

i’m almost sad the month will end soon :,(


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Randy Lahey said:


> AEW just needs to maintain their demo in the 0.35-0.40 range. Raw will fall below it. That is inevitable if you look at the trends.
> 
> Raw did a 0.42 against no NFL or NBA.
> 
> That projects to 0.32- 0.40 vs NFL this fall most likely. It’ll be a disappointment if Dynamite isn’t consistently beating Raw in the fall.
> 
> Dynamite’s 18-49 is stable. Raw’s is dropping every year. Doing worse now than last year in the Thunderdome. Just stay the course. Keep selling out arenas.


Raw was up against an NHL playoff game and Monday was a holiday. Raw's demo was actually up(marginally but still up.) from the week before. 


This week's dynamite had just come off a PPV, coming off a weekend that featured the alleged "greatest work or all time", had the saviour of pro wrestling making his first TV appearance as World Champion, also wasn't up against any NBA game, it wasn't a holiday, and STILL couldn't beat WWE in the demo. But I bet that Rangers vs Lightning game is reason, right?

Excuses go both ways man


----------



## Lady Eastwood

RoganJosh said:


> Where are they all, watching gay porn or something?


If you know of anything that involves AJ Styles and Randy Orton look a likes, I’m all ears.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Must be tough being a aew fan, having to defend them all the time on every little thing 😂


----------



## Mr316

GarpTheFist said:


> Must be tough being a aew fan, having to defend them all the time on every little thing 😂


Yeah extremly tough being a fan of a show that drew close to 15,000 fans last night.


----------



## Chelsea

RoganJosh said:


> Who are you to tell @Firefromthegods what to do?


Also you:



RoganJosh said:


> @Firefromthegods or whoever else sort this place out and get rid of these clowns.






Catalanotto said:


> If you know of anything that involves AJ Styles and Randy Orton look a likes, I’m all ears


Dolph Ziggler and Damian Priest pls!


----------



## Prosper

GarpTheFist said:


> Must be tough being a aew fan, having to defend them all the time on every little thing 😂


I mean we don’t really have to defend AEW against purposeful naivety, detail exclusions, and ignorance. It’s not tough at all debating with people who have common sense.


----------



## Randy Lahey

fabi1982 said:


> Something I learned about AEW fans, there is always an excuse on hand. First its the over use of words like „greatest“ „all time“ „boom period“ and then if that doesnt play out as it should, its excuses.


I have no excuses for why so many 50+ year olds prefer WWE instead of AEW.


MonkasaurusRex said:


> Raw was up against an NHL playoff game and Monday was a holiday. Raw's demo was actually up(marginally but still up.) from the week before.
> 
> 
> This week's dynamite had just come off a PPV, coming off a weekend that featured the alleged "greatest work or all time", had the saviour of pro wrestling making his first TV appearance as World Champion, also wasn't up against any NBA game, it wasn't a holiday, and STILL couldn't beat WWE in the demo. But I bet that Rangers vs Lightning game is reason, right?
> 
> Excuses go both ways man



No, AEW didn’t beat Raw this week because AEW was up against the hockey game AND the prime time golf match.

Raw was not up against 2 live sporting events or they’d most likely would have finished below Dynamite.

But again, when reviewing ratings look at the trends. Last year during this time Dynamite was never this close.

Now they are


----------



## Irish Jet

Things are only going to get worse when they lean into the NJPW stuff.

I’ve ranted enough how they don’t present literally anyone as stars but even by their standards there was so little to get invested in coming out of a PPV. 

The one guy everyone was invested in had his feud come to a definitive end and wasn’t scheduled to shown until Wednesday.


----------



## elo

A lot of the audience left when the first hard ad break hit, they had seen Punk and MJF, flicked over to something else and never really came back. (I'll be honest, Miro v Morrison I sort of only had one eye on - wasn't the way to bring back Miro for me)


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> I have no excuses for why so many 50+ year olds prefer WWE instead of AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> No, AEW didn’t beat Raw this week because AEW was up against the hockey game AND the prime time golf match.
> 
> Raw was not up against 2 live sporting events or they’d most likely would have finished below Dynamite.
> 
> But again, when reviewing ratings look at the trends. Last year during this time Dynamite was never this close.
> 
> Now they are




I can feel the anger in your words lol. You thought you had it. RAW on memorial day against a game 7 while Dynamite is coming off a world title change to what should be their biggest draw in front a 13K house with the biggest is it a shoot or a work story in wrestling in years and still, still, couldn't get a mil or beat RAW in the demo. God that's tough.


----------



## DammitChrist

CM Punk being in the top 2 highest quarterly segment (along with Hiroshi Tanahashi and FTR) last night feels very right 



RainmakerV2 said:


> I can feel the anger in your words lol. You thought you had it. RAW on memorial day against a game 7 while Dynamite is coming off a world title change to what should be their biggest draw in front a 13K house with the biggest is it a shoot or a work story in wrestling in years and still, still, couldn't get a mil or beat RAW in the demo. God that's tough.


Well, I expect a company that's been around for 60+ years (with nearly 30 years of being on television) to beat a wrestling promotion that hasn't even been around on TV for a full 3 years.

Why is this being used as some major victory against AEW when it's what should be happening anyway?


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> man, this face turn has been great
> 
> i’m almost sad the month will end soon :,(


He’s a heel by forbidden door.


----------



## Irish Jet

elo said:


> View attachment 123735
> 
> 
> A lot of the audience left when the first hard ad break hit, they had seen Punk and MJF, flicked over to something else and never really came back. (I'll be honest, Miro v Morrison I sort of only had one eye on - wasn't the way to bring back Miro for me)


This is literally their problem.

Once you’ve seen your guys you know they’re done. Too segregated with no spotlight on any one guy. @DammitChrist can roll those eyes all he wants. Could you imagine if Steve Austin or The Rock were presented with one segment per show?


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> CM Punk being in the top 2 highest quarterly segment (along with Hiroshi Tanahashi and FTR) last night feels very right


I adore Tanahashi but giving him credit for anything there? Really?


----------



## DammitChrist

Irish Jet said:


> This is literally their problem.
> 
> Once you’ve seen your guys you know they’re done. Too segregated with no spotlight on any one guy. @DammitChrist can roll those eyes all he wants. Could you imagine if Steve Austin or The Rock were presented with one segment per show?


CM Punk literally got like 20+ minutes of TV time last night after his huge victory last Sunday.



CovidFan said:


> I adore Tanahashi but giving him credit for anything there? Really?



Yea, I got too cute there by including him 😂


----------



## RapShepard

Randy Lahey said:


> 0.40 is a good number. It’s too bad The Match was competing against it. That’s what kept it lower. Brady/Mahomes/Rodgers/Allen all playing golf is a draw. They are both competing for the same main demo (males 18-49)
> 
> Raw’s 50+ is a 0.74
> Dynamite 50+ is a 0.34
> 
> Old viewers just don’t like watching Dynamite. AEW is a promotion for the young which also explains why Rampage does poor on Friday nights.





Randy Lahey said:


> AEW just needs to maintain their demo in the 0.35-0.40 range. Raw will fall below it. That is inevitable if you look at the trends.
> 
> Raw did a 0.42 against no NFL or NBA.
> 
> That projects to 0.32- 0.40 vs NFL this fall most likely. It’ll be a disappointment if Dynamite isn’t consistently beating Raw in the fall.
> 
> Dynamite’s 18-49 is stable. Raw’s is dropping every year. Doing worse now than last year in the Thunderdome. Just stay the course. Keep selling out arenas.





Randy Lahey said:


> I have no excuses for why so many 50+ year olds prefer WWE instead of AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> No, AEW didn’t beat Raw this week because AEW was up against the hockey game AND the prime time golf match.
> 
> Raw was not up against 2 live sporting events or they’d most likely would have finished below Dynamite.
> 
> But again, when reviewing ratings look at the trends. Last year during this time Dynamite was never this close.
> 
> Now they are


Fucking hell a string of excuses and even sadder, the hope isn't that AEW will do great and just kick the shit out of Raw. The hope is

"Well if AEW just maintains and Raw plummets they'll get em".


----------



## CovidFan

RapShepard said:


> Fucking hell a string of excuses and even sadder, the hope isn't that AEW will do great and just kick the shit out of Raw. The hope is
> 
> "Well if AEW just maintains and Raw plummets they'll get em".


Yeah I didn't want to be the one to point it out but man if you're preying on the downfall of RAW instead of AEW just doing better, that's pretty sad.


----------



## Randy Lahey

elo said:


> View attachment 123735
> 
> 
> A lot of the audience left when the first hard ad break hit, they had seen Punk and MJF, flicked over to something else and never really came back. (I'll be honest, Miro v Morrison I sort of only had one eye on - wasn't the way to bring back Miro for me)


Yeah that’s a huge drop after MJF got off the mic but they did regain for the rest of the show.

Nobody cared to see Miro


----------



## Irish Jet

DammitChrist said:


> CM Punk literally got like 20+ minutes of TV time last night after his huge victory last Sunday.


You miss the point entirely. He could have done 60 minutes - He had his segment and he was gone. Anyone watching for CM Punk has no incentive to stick with the show.

I don’t know how old you are my guy but I actually watched this shit when it was popular. The show should have a narrative structured around the stars - A beginning, a middle and an end that are loosely connected. That is how they did it with Austin, Rock, HHH, Foley, Goldberg, The NWO etc. They knew what most people were invested in and gave them a reason to stay invested.

AEW don’t do this because Khan has no understanding as to how to produce a television show. As MJF said he really is just a mark who wants to see wrestling matches.


----------



## Randy Lahey

RainmakerV2 said:


> I can feel the anger in your words lol. You thought you had it. RAW on memorial day against a game 7 while Dynamite is coming off a world title change to what should be their biggest draw in front a 13K house with the biggest is it a shoot or a work story in wrestling in years and still, still, couldn't get a mil or beat RAW in the demo. God that's tough.


Live sports still beat wrestling


----------



## elo

WWE formula would have worked pretty well last night, you have Punk open the show with a promo, gets attacked by Gunns and Caster, FTR and Tanahashi make the save. Main event trios match with Tanahashi as special enforcer. When Billy Gunn on the outside interferes he gets decked by Tanahashi - Punk and FTR win, Punk and Tanahashi shake hands and staredown to end the show, announced as main event for Forbidden Door - easy.

Sometimes the WWE formula is the way to go, last night it would have kept the show over a million easy by using it.


----------



## La Parka

Tom Brady taking away ratings in multiple sports from the dub 

he better not touch a basketball or heaven forbid a hockey stick!


----------



## Randy Lahey

The demo spike for MJF was outstanding tho. Guy is a real needle mover


----------



## RapShepard

CovidFan said:


> Yeah I didn't want to be the one to point it out but man if you're preying on the downfall of RAW instead of AEW just doing better, that's pretty sad.


It's hilarious, like 

"Eh fuck being better, eventually they'll regress to our level.. then we'll pounce"


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

DammitChrist said:


> CM Punk literally got like 20+ minutes of TV time last night after his huge victory last Sunday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, I got too cute there by including him 😂


Yeah CM Punk got 20 minutes of TV rime but they crammed his promo/match/angle into the same block and then he was done for the rest of the program. That's the point. Guys like Austin, Rock, DX, NWO, Cena, Reigns may start a show but they are/were quite regularly not done for the night after that segment. They would feature later in the show as well.

You could give Punk 8 minutes of TV but spread into one four minute patch each hour and have a reason for people to stay and watch more of the show. Having it be so segmented is just poor formatting. 

I mean holy fuck they could have kept everything in cute little singular blocks so everyone only has to walk through the curtain one time if they didn't run Punk immediately followed by MJF and instead ran MJF to end the show or something.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> Live sports still beat wrestling



That's right buddy we blaming celebrity golf now when Dynamite can't get it done. Fuckin a right


----------



## DammitChrist

CovidFan said:


> Yeah I didn't want to be the one to point it out but man if you're preying on the downfall of RAW instead of AEW just doing better, that's pretty sad.


To be fair, I want both Dynamite and Raw succeed since both of those shows have been delivering good episodes for quite a long while now.


----------



## bdon

Mr316 said:


> Yeah…AEW is in big trouble…
> 
> 
> They sold out The Forum for their weekly episode.
> They sold almost 8000 tickets for a a damn episode of Rampage this Friday.
> 
> …but yeah…AEW is in big trouble because 969,000 viewers watched the show and not 1 million. 😂





Mr316 said:


> Yeah extremly tough being a fan of a show that drew close to 15,000 fans last night.


I know everyone is giving you shit about the fickle nature of your posts, but I don’t want you to ever change. Your opinions have been a pretty good barometer for what is going on in AEW. I don’t post as often anymore, but we’ve basically been in tune since the beginning of Omega’s run.


----------



## Randy Lahey

RapShepard said:


> "Well if AEW just maintains and Raw plummets they'll get em".


But that’s exactly what has happened the last 3 years. AEW is maintaining their audience. Raw is tanking. That’s a win for AEW in todays Cable environment. And it will continue.

One wrestling show does a 0.42.
The other show does a 0.40
Another show does a 0.12

You want to argue Raw is still worth 5x more? Or Dynamite is worth 5x less?

The ratings trend for the last 3 years is a huge win for AEW, huge loss for Raw, and an absolute catastrophe for NXT.

No one can argue to the contrary.


----------



## Mr316

bdon said:


> I know everyone is giving you shit about the fickle nature of your posts, but I don’t want you to ever change. Your opinions have been a pretty good barometer for what is going on in AEW. I don’t post as often anymore, but we’ve basically been in tune since the beginning of Omega’s run.


Thank you brother! I appreciate the kind words. 🙏🏻


----------



## Randy Lahey

RainmakerV2 said:


> That's right buddy we blaming celebrity golf now when Dynamite can't get it done. Fuckin a right


When a primetime celebrity golf event does a 0.36 (and a 0.54 in males) yes you do .


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> When a primetime celebrity golf event does a 0.36 (and a 0.54 in males) yes you do .



Yeah man other shit is on TV, fuckin sucks don't it.


----------



## Mr316

RainmakerV2 said:


> Yeah man other shit is on TV, fuckin sucks don't it.


Yeah and everything on TV ranked behind AEW except for one single program. Yeah…it really fuckin sucks.


----------



## Irish Jet

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532463872480710656Where are all the trash who were arguing he was overrated or that I was delusional for thinking he was so good a few days ago?

This section was literally burying this guy a few days ago with every other comment saying he was delusional about his worth, that Khan should bury him and that Vince would turn him into another EC3, like they’re even in the same stratosphere in terms of talent.

If it takes Bryan/Punk money to secure this guy they should give it because he is by far and away the best talent in professional wrestling.


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> To be fair, I want both Dynamite and Raw succeed since both of those shows have been delivering good episodes for quite a long while now.


I'll be the first to say that Randy doesn't represent everybody. I'd rather see AEW succeed than have RAW dip below AEW.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Mr316 said:


> Yeah and everything on TV ranked behind AEW except for one single program. Yeah…it really fuckin sucks.



I never said it sucked but the guy I quoted is in the RAW ratings thread every week drooling at the mouth with a 5 paragraph essay every week about how Dynamite is gonna beat RAW and this was the best opportunity they've had in ages and didn't do it. Then he pivots to celebrity golf. If you can dish it be able to take it a little.


----------



## Mr316

RainmakerV2 said:


> I never said it sucked but the guy I quoted is in the RAW ratings thread every week drooling at the mouth with a 5 paragraph essay every week about how Dynamite is gonna beat RAW and this was the best opportunity they've had in ages and didn't do it. Then he pivots to celebrity golf. If you can dish it be able to take it a little.


Fair!


----------



## One Shed

MJF already justifying wanting a raise.


----------



## Teemu™

MJF's promo could not have drawn ratings for the show it happened on. The effect, if any, shows next week. No one has real life wrestling friends, so the thing where people text their friends to check out a show that is ongoing doesn't happen. People will read reports online after the show, and if they're interested, they'll check out next week.


----------



## Irish Jet

Teemu™ said:


> MJF's promo could not have drawn ratings for the show it happened on. The effect, if any, shows next week. No one has real life wrestling friends, so the thing where people text their friends to check out a show that is ongoing doesn't happen. People will read reports online after the show, and if they're interested, they'll check out next week.


It did draw though. His segment got huge viewership, the high point of the show and the audience collapsed immediately after.

AEW do not do narratives so it wont have much of a long term impact regardless. It’s very easy to tell who and what is drawing because the viewers know they’ll show up once.


----------



## Teemu™

Irish Jet said:


> It did draw though. His segment got huge viewership, the high point of the show and the audience collapsed immediately after.
> 
> AEW do not do narratives so it wont have much of a long term impact regardless. It’s very easy to tell who and what is drawing because the viewers know they’ll show up once.


Probably the post-PPV bump. And yes, there probably was interest due to MJF - but the promo itself, that specific promo, draws for next week. I'm assuming anyway.


----------



## Irish Jet

Teemu™ said:


> Probably the post-PPV bump. And yes, there probably was interest due to MJF - but the promo itself, that specific promo, draws for next week. I'm assuming anyway.


Very good chance MJF isn’t even mentioned next week with how they’re playing it.


----------



## Teemu™

Irish Jet said:


> Very good chance MJF isn’t even mentioned next week with how they’re playing it.


Not the worst idea. Make it seem real, keep people guessing. They do, however, need something to fall back on in the meantime. Punk should do something more than be happy to be there and happy to be champ.


----------



## chronoxiong

NHL 2 million viewers last night? TNT sure made the right call getting the rights to broadcast the NHL Playoffs.


----------



## Teemu™

@DammitChrist The heck you were rolling your eyes for lol? I was defending AEW against the people laughing at it not breaking a million with that MJF promo. The promo's effects won't show until next week. For once I'm defending AEW lmao. Geeshus Christ with you, man.


----------



## ClintDagger

I’ve said all along that Punk was a bad investment. Casual fans will always look at him as the guy that embarrassed himself in MMA & got obliterated by a journalist. No chance for growth there. The people that care about Punk will watch AEW anyways. But MJF does have a chance to do something special. They should go all in with him and give him the creative control to do whatever he thinks can catch fire.


----------



## Sad Panda

chronoxiong said:


> NHL 2 million viewers last night? TNT sure made the right call getting the rights to broadcast the NHL Playoffs.


Having the New York Rangers be one of the teams definitely helps as well.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Teemu™ said:


> @DammitChrist The heck you were rolling your eyes for lol? I was defending AEW against the people laughing at it not breaking a million with that MJF promo. The promo's effects won't show until next week. For once I'm defending AEW lmao. Geeshus Christ with you, man.


You mean next week when they are against a Game 3 of the NBA Finals? Sometimes competition does indeed suck.


----------



## .christopher.

GarpTheFist said:


> Say whatever you want about wwe, they know how to make a star ACTUALLY feel like a star. If edge had returned in aew then he'd be feuding with lower carders and nobodys instead of main eventers, robbing him of all his star power. His first feud with orton right off the bat was the best thing in the company. Thats how bryan and punk should've been booked from the jump. If they were, they could likely be getting 1.2m today and might i dare say, easily at that.


True.


RainmakerV2 said:


> He's a non factor? He was the biggest story in wrestling this weekend and was advertised 12 hours before the show started. It's not like he just popped up lmao.


In terms of their ratings, sure. Next week is when you'll see if his story has an impact. My guess is nothing changes.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Wow still can't crack a million? Dub is in the mud, that's pathetic. 

(I know I'm going to have to clarify myself so the AEW neckbeards don't throw a fit but I'm JOKING)


----------



## RainmakerV2

.christopher. said:


> True.
> 
> In terms of their ratings, sure. Next week is when you'll see if his story has an impact. My guess is nothing changes.



Uh they're going against game 3 of the finals. Won't be any seen impact.


----------



## MEMS

As a long time pro wrestling fan, watching Raw and then Dynamite, there are no words to describe the crazy fact that more people choose to watch Raw. Just mind boggling. 

How are ratings even calculated in this day and age of DVRs and streaming?


----------



## Not Lying

RainmakerV2 said:


> Uh they're going against game 3 of the finals. Won't be any seen impact.


i thought competition don’t matter snd it’s just excuses?


----------



## RainmakerV2

The Definition of Technician said:


> i thought competition don’t matter snd it’s just excuses?



I mean 17 weeks out of the year RAW has the biggest competition possible on TV and no one seems to cut them slack. So, meh.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> I mean 17 weeks out of the year RAW has the biggest competition possible on TV and no one seems to cut them slack. So, meh.


Heck, I'm willing to give Raw the same slack.

They apparently faced major competition this week, AND they were on a holiday too.

They'll surely go up in the ratings next Monday. 

I'm willing to be forgiving/lenient with good wrestling programs (like Dynamite and Raw BOTH have been quality-wise over the last several months).


----------



## Not Lying

RainmakerV2 said:


> I mean 17 weeks out of the year RAW has the biggest competition possible on TV and no one seems to cut them slack. So, meh.


😂😂 NFL excuses for RAW has been going on ages you know that right? Before AEW existed. 

You know RTWM isn’t against the NFL on purpose yeah?


----------



## fabi1982

RoganJosh said:


> Who are you to tell @Firefromthegods what to do? Name calling? Mate I see you you on here all the time just non-stop criticising. If you don't like the product why are you using so much energy to talk shite? Go find something you do enjoy. You're the one that needs to spend time on the bench, @Firefromthegods or whoever else sort this place out and get rid of these clowns. I know you lot don't get paid for it so probably don't see the point in doing a thorough job.


How do you know I dont get energy from criticising? And why does no one of you „fans“ know what a forum is all about? If you want to only see positive notes, go write a journal.

You are the one insulting people left and right not sharing your opinion, thats less on topic than what I write. And if you dont like it, defend it, or put me on ignore. But going around with the same stupid argument „if you dont like, dont write“ has nothing to do with discussion, which a forum is essentially all about.


----------



## RoganJosh

fabi1982 said:


> How do you know I dont get energy from criticising? And why does no one of you „fans“ know what a forum is all about? If you want to only see positive notes, go write a journal.
> 
> You are the one insulting people left and right not sharing your opinion, thats less on topic than what I write. And if you dont like it, defend it, or put me on ignore. But going around with the same stupid argument „if you dont like, dont write“ has nothing to do with discussion, which a forum is essentially all about.


People are entitled to opinions both good and bad, but all you ever do is talk shit about the product. This is why I'm suggesting you go find another pass time which you enjoy.


----------



## fabi1982

RoganJosh said:


> People are entitled to opinions both good and bad, but all you ever do is talk shit about the product. This is why I'm suggesting you go find another pass time which you enjoy.


I enjoy this place, so either learn to live with it, that I am here, or ignore me. Again, if you cant handle criticism or take it personal, thats your problem. Bye for now 😘


----------



## RoganJosh

fabi1982 said:


> I enjoy this place, so either learn to live with it, that I am here, or ignore me. Again, if you cant handle criticism or take it personal, thats your problem. Bye for now 😘


What, enjoy being negative all the time? Not good for mental health mate.


----------



## fabi1982

RoganJosh said:


> What, enjoy being negative all the time? Not good for mental health mate.


What seems negative for you doesnt have to be negative for someone else. And at the end I just state facts, you throw a tantrum when someone says anything about AEW you dont like. Not sure if I am the one with „the problem“ here.


----------



## GarpTheFist

RoganJosh said:


> People are entitled to opinions both good and bad, but all you ever do is talk shit about the product. This is why I'm suggesting you go find another pass time which you enjoy.


Aren't you the same guy who told him not to tell the mods what to do? How about YOU not tell him what to do? If he bothers you then put him on your ignore list or learn to deal with it, acting like a child isn't going to help you. Grow up and learn to take criticism. Now back you go onto my ignore list lmao.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

The Definition of Technician said:


> 😂😂 NFL excuses for RAW has been going on ages you know that right? Before AEW existed.
> 
> You know RTWM isn’t against the NFL on purpose yeah?


That and the fact that there were 8 WrestleMania events before WWE even had a prime time TV show that aired opposite Monday Night Football. I'm not sure there were ever plans to move WrestleMania from the spring.


----------



## FrankieDs316

They can’t even crack a million after a major ppv, a real life angle with MJF, and CM Punk as champion. Not good at all


----------



## Hotdiggity11

The Definition of Technician said:


> 😂😂 NFL excuses for RAW has been going on ages you know that right? Before AEW existed.
> 
> You know RTWM isn’t against the NFL on purpose yeah?




RTWM has always been a 1-1.5 month buildup before Wrestlemania. That typically happens in January for an event that happens in March or early April. They didn't program the RTWM for after the NFL regular season, it was like that before RAW even started.





MEMS said:


> As a long time pro wrestling fan, watching Raw and then Dynamite, there are no words to describe the crazy fact that more people choose to watch Raw. Just mind boggling.
> 
> How are ratings even calculated in this day and age of DVRs and streaming?




The WWE is a more well-known overall brand and many people just watch it out of habit since Mondays are usually not a great day for original sports-based television programming anyways outside of Monday Night Football during the NFL season. The NBA usually puts their big nationally televised games on during the middle of the week [Wednesday-Friday]. ESPN usually puts their premiere baseball games on Sundays. College football is on Saturdays and the bulk of NFL games are on Sunday.

Wednesday will always be a more competitive day.







elo said:


> View attachment 123735
> 
> 
> A lot of the audience left when the first hard ad break hit, they had seen Punk and MJF, flicked over to something else and never really came back. (I'll be honest, Miro v Morrison I sort of only had one eye on - wasn't the way to bring back Miro for me)



After Jericho, there was little reason for a lot of casuals to continue watching. Punk/MJF/Jericho were already thrown into the first hour. The last hour of the show was just for the hardcore fans outside of Wardlow who has the potential to be a draw [They need to start booking him into a real feud again though]. Way too much tag team matches on this show.


----------



## kentl

Hotdiggity11 said:


> RTWM has always been a 1-1.5 month buildup before Wrestlemania. That typically happens in January for an event that happens in March or early April. They didn't program the RTWM for after the NFL regular season, it was like that before RAW even started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The WWE is a more well-known overall brand and many people just watch it out of habit since Mondays are usually not a great day for original sports-based television programming anyways outside of Monday Night Football during the NFL season. The NBA usually puts their big nationally televised games on during the middle of the week [Wednesday-Friday]. ESPN usually puts their premiere baseball games on Sundays. College football is on Saturdays and the bulk of NFL games are on Sunday.
> 
> Wednesday will always be a more competitive day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After Jericho, there was little reason for a lot of casuals to continue watching. Punk/MJF/Jericho were already thrown into the first hour. The last hour of the show was just for the hardcore fans outside of Wardlow who has the potential to be a draw [They need to start booking him into a real feud again though]. Way too much tag team matches on this show.


Look NHL did numbers... but do we have any evidence to suggest that NHL and aew share the same fan base? 
Has the NHL ever shown a drop off for aew before?
It's possible for 2 million non wrestling fans to watch other shows.


----------



## RapShepard

Randy Lahey said:


> But that’s exactly what has happened the last 3 years. AEW is maintaining their audience. Raw is tanking. That’s a win for AEW in todays Cable environment. And it will continue.
> 
> One wrestling show does a 0.42.
> The other show does a 0.40
> Another show does a 0.12
> 
> You want to argue Raw is still worth 5x more? Or Dynamite is worth 5x less?
> 
> The ratings trend for the last 3 years is a huge win for AEW, huge loss for Raw, and an absolute catastrophe for NXT.
> 
> No one can argue to the contrary.


What they're worth is on cable providers WWE and AEW will get increases come their next deals and WWE will still get multiple times what AEW gets.


----------



## RapShepard

Delete


----------



## Geert Wilders

WWE gets good deals because they are a household brand. It’s bragging rights for networks in order to sell ad space to the highest buyer. Simple as that.

until AEW becomes a household brand, they will be worth less to networks. I don’t believe they will become a household brand in my lifetime.


----------



## kingfunkel

The ratings have confused me. Between the CM Punk/FTR & MJF segments the show is over a million. Then suddenly the back end of MJF & Miro/JE segment it drops like 169k. Which wasn't overly offensive, then the show just never recovered. 

Why did 169k fans turn off in the space of 15mins? I'd understand if Itoh who was on after the MJF segment. Surely 169k fans didn't turn over at the ads and thought fuck it...i've seen Punk, I've seen MJF; usually the rest of the show isn't worth watching. 
This is why your top stars shouldn't be in a set segment and go missing for the rest of the show. Need to keep a thread running through segments. 
Eg. Have Punk open the show, show up on the hour for a brief time, then towards the end of the show. Let the fans know that their favourites might show up at any moment.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532758380896460802

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Full size:










One thing this shows me is that ad breaks are fatal for viewership, as many just don't want to sit through them.

Also, lovely to see Ace of the Universe, Tanahashi, draw a nice MbM number.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

GarpTheFist said:


> Punk wins title, post ppv bump and all the MJF hype and they still can't get to a million? How sad 😂 and here i was thinking it'd easily be a million. They've really plateaued if even all that doesn't get them a million.


Too much damage to the audience, most people have made up their minds about whether they like AEW or not.



Randy Lahey said:


> Old viewers just don’t like watching Dynamite. AEW is a promotion for the young which also explains why Rampage does poor on Friday nights.


Oh yeah? Because all the AEW fans that make below the average income, live with their parents and pirate wrestling PPVs are out there in the club hooking up with babes every Friday, right?

Unless something super exciting happens in AEW in which case they don't go to the club that night  



RoganJosh said:


> Who are you to tell @Firefromthegods what to do? Name calling? Mate I see you you on here all the time just non-stop criticising. If you don't like the product why are you using so much energy to talk shite? Go find something you do enjoy. You're the one that needs to spend time on the bench, @Firefromthegods or whoever else sort this place out and get rid of these clowns. I know you lot don't get paid for it so probably don't see the point in doing a thorough job.


Do you not talk about anything you feel negatively about? No political complaints? No sports team complaints?


----------



## Aedubya

------Anything above 0.80 is ok, Anything above 0.85 is good, anything above 0.9 is v good , anything above 0.95 is brilliant , anything above 1.0 is outstanding-----

BRILLIANT


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532764613611249664]


----------



## GarpTheFist

Chip Chipperson said:


> Too much damage to the audience, most people have made up their minds about whether they like AEW or not.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah? Because all the AEW fans that make below the average income, live with their parents and pirate wrestling PPVs are out there in the club hooking up with babes every Friday, right?
> 
> Unless something super exciting happens in AEW in which case they don't go to the club that night
> 
> 
> 
> Do you not talk about anything you feel negatively about? No political complaints? No sports team complaints?


Good news, rogan is gone for good now lol. He was being so toxic


----------



## Dr. Middy

Chip Chipperson said:


> Oh yeah? Because all the AEW fans that make below the average income, live with their parents and pirate wrestling PPVs are out there in the club hooking up with babes every Friday, right?
> 
> Unless something super exciting happens in AEW in which case they don't go to the club that night


I still find you inherent lumping of all AEW fans together via one reddit census and subsequent dislike of these people and putting them beneath you as weird, even after we talked about it awhile back. 

Especially with how you see poor people, it seems even more suspect.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Dr. Middy said:


> I still find you inherent lumping of all AEW fans together via one reddit census and subsequent dislike of these people and putting them beneath you as weird, even after we talked about it awhile back.
> 
> Especially with how you see poor people, it seems even more suspect.


Not AEW fans, hardcore wrestling fans in general really. Just so happens that hardcore wrestling fans really dig AEW.


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

3venflow said:


> Full size:
> 
> View attachment 123783
> 
> 
> One thing this shows me is that ad breaks are fatal for viewership, as many just don't want to sit through them.
> 
> Also, lovely to see Ace of the Universe, Tanahashi, draw a nice MbM number.


Everyone saw what they wanted to see and dipped out, it seems. Honestly they should have saved it for the end of the show. Though I can understand why they didn't.

When did the NHL game start? 30 or so minutes into the show? Because 300,000 tuning out at an ad-break seems like a mental number. And it happened twice on that chart. After the MJF promo and during the JAS segment when both were over 1,000,000.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Chip Chipperson said:


> Not AEW fans, hardcore wrestling fans in general really. Just so happens that hardcore wrestling fans really dig AEW.


I mean I'm technically a hardcore fan who lives with my parents still. 

I just don't get shitting on them. Sure, they might not be as financially set or be like big social magnets getting girls or some shit, but who cares?


----------



## Dr. Middy

Jeru The Damaja said:


> Everyone saw what they wanted to see and dipped out, it seems. Honestly they should have saved it for the end of the show. Though I can understand why they didn't.
> 
> When did the NHL game start? 30 or so minutes into the show? Because 300,000 tuning out at an ad-break seems like a mental number. And it happened twice on that chart. After the MJF promo and during the JAS segment when both were over 1,000,000.


The game started around 8:15 or so. I was watching it with Dynamite on my laptop, kinda switching back and forth.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Dr. Middy said:


> I mean I'm technically a hardcore fan who lives with my parents still.
> 
> I just don't get shitting on them. Sure, they might not be as financially set or be like big social magnets getting girls or some shit, but who cares?


I'm not shitting on them just people always try to claim that the AEW fanbase is mad affluent and spend every Friday night in the club busy being social. The people who live at home with their parents and pirate PPVs aren't the same guys going to clubs chasing girls on weekends.

People don't watch Rampage because it usually sucks.


----------



## fabi1982

GarpTheFist said:


> Good news, rogan is gone for good now lol. He was being so toxic


Color me surprised 😮


----------



## Dr. Middy

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm not shitting on them just people always try to claim that the AEW fanbase is mad affluent and spend every Friday night in the club busy being social. The people who live at home with their parents and pirate PPVs aren't the same guys going to clubs chasing girls on weekends.
> 
> People don't watch Rampage because it usually sucks.


Bro social doesn't mean being at a club chasing girls, that's a weird generalization. Hanging out at a friends house is social, or going to a bar with some mates, or a movie, or a concert, or whatever, all of those are examples of being social. It's not like all hardcore fans are just shut-ins or somethng. I've also never heard people call wrestling fans even wealthy, but even if they aren't, they are probably the ones still spending the most money on AEW.

Rampage isn't booked like an A-show at all which surely doesn't help, but it's normal timeslot is late for a show to get good ratings on, and their situation with the playoffs hurt it even more since it has been on as early as 5 pm for me, to as late as 11pm. It's difficult to keep track of that.


----------



## GarpTheFist

fabi1982 said:


> Color me surprised 😮


I had to report him lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Never realized how much ad breaks could kill a viewerships quarters until seeing those minute by minute numbers. Obviously knew there was some negative effect, but seeing them lose over 300k/30% of the audience due to an ad break after MJF promo, and then after the JAS segment losing over 200k is pretty crazy.

Of course this isn't just an AEW thing, so nothing unique to them. But will definitely make me consider ad breaks more in quarter numbers when I see them.


----------



## DammitChrist

3venflow said:


> Full size:
> 
> View attachment 123783
> 
> 
> One thing this shows me is that ad breaks are fatal for viewership, as many just don't want to sit through them.
> 
> Also, lovely to see Ace of the Universe, Tanahashi, draw a nice MbM number.


Over a million American viewers got to see the living wrestling legend in Hiroshi Tanahashi on live TV.

That is very heartwarming news


----------



## One Shed

MJF's promo peaked at a 0.51 in the precious demo.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533195233684402176


----------



## 3venflow

Well, going by former fast nationals which are usually (not always) lower than the finals, that could be half a million when the finals are in on Monday. They haven't passed a half million since April with all the moving around. Hopefully Alfred is enjoying his cheese platters.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533195233684402176


wonder if he got a cheese board this time


----------



## RainmakerV2

Can't beat NXT 2.0 in its regular time slot with a huge Punk announcement and a TNT title match and The Bucks vs. The Bros.._deep breath_..AND it was live so no spoilers.






Man that's tuff


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Can't beat NXT 2.0 in its regular time slot with a huge Punk announcement and a TNT title match and The Bucks vs. The Bros.._deep breath_..AND it was live so no spoilers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man that's tuff


It's like the valid explanation of the Rampage schedule switching every week in different time slots over the last 2 months (which consequently hurts their viewership) continues to be glossed over in favor of misleading statements.

Heck, I didn't even know what time that Rampage aired yesterday until someone on here told me mere hours before the show started.


----------



## RapShepard

RainmakerV2 said:


> Can't beat NXT 2.0 in its regular time slot with a huge Punk announcement and a TNT title match and The Bucks vs. The Bros.._deep breath_..AND it was live so no spoilers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man that's tuff


Look if nothing else had happened on TV, you'd see that there's actually 300+ million people who'd rather be watching Rampage. It's just other shit happened


----------



## 3venflow

Early estimates for DoN 2022 are 150,000 to 155,000 buys (traditional PPV buys) according to the WON. That would make it either the second or third* most purchased AEW PPV.

* Revolution 2022 is still listed as an estimated 146,000 to 170,000 by Brandon Thurston so DoN being second or third depends on the final figure for that. The top AEW PPV remains (and may forever remain) All Out 2021.


----------



## Soul Rex

The drop after MJF promo is not normal.

Did they pissed off fans or sum? 😆


----------



## Teemu™

Soul Rex said:


> The drop after MJF promo is not normal.
> 
> Did they pissed off fans or sum? 😆


Everybody shows up on Dynamite only once per episode. They knew MJF wasn't gonna be featured again, so why keep watching.


----------



## CovidFan

At least this coming Wednesday they advertised something for the beginning of the show that'll play into the finish of it. Shame they're against NBA, though.


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

Soul Rex said:


> The drop after MJF promo is not normal.
> 
> Did they pissed off fans or sum? 😆


Not far off the same thing happened on the same show after MJFs promo though, so perhaps normal....


1,078,000 viewers are tuned in by the end of MJFs promo.
_cuts to commercial break_
Viewership drops down to 731,000

1,034,000 viewers are tuned in during the JAS/BCC segment.
_cuts to commercial break_
Viewership drops to 795,000


Viewership simply drops during picture-in-pictureless commercials. It's a shame we haven't got the minute-by-minute screenshot of the second hour to see if anything similar happened again during other commercials.


----------



## Irish Jet

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533195233684402176


They need to be rid of Rampage. It's basically what Thunder was to WCW at this point. It could have been something but they booked it like a B show and now only the most die hard in the cult tune in for that shit.


----------



## Not Lying

You should all know by now that looking at Quarters now is not significant by itself, it’s this min by min breakdown that matters.

Watch this (from 1-2 years ago) and see how it works.

i’d actually pay for the site if we could get the minutes breakdown weekly.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Irish Jet said:


> They need to be rid of Rampage. It's basically what Thunder was to WCW at this point. It could have been something but they booked it like a B show and now only the most die hard in the cult tune in for that shit.


I will not have you shitting on Thunder


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

Tbh Rampage is useless if it's only an extra hour of TV for no reason. Make it feel different or make it ROH.


----------



## 3venflow

Some numbers from Uncle Dave.

-

AEW is likely to end up with its biggest four-week period as far as revenue from touring in its existence.

• Double or Nothing at the T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas did 13,800 paid for $1.15 million, the largest gate for a non-WWE pro wrestling event in North America history.
• Kia Forum did 13,900 paid for $860,000, company’s third-largest paid attendance in its history.
• Ontario, CA sold out more than a month in advance with another 7,400 paid.
• Forbidden Door at United Center will top 15,000 fans to be AEW's second ever million-dollar gate.


----------



## GarpTheFist

B


3venflow said:


> Some numbers from Uncle Dave.
> 
> -
> 
> AEW is likely to end up with its biggest four-week period as far as revenue from touring in its existence.
> 
> • Double or Nothing at the T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas did 13,800 paid for $1.15 million, the largest gate for a non-WWE pro wrestling event in North America history.
> • Kia Forum did 13,900 paid for $860,000, company’s third-largest paid attendance in its history.
> • Ontario, CA sold out more than a month in advance with another 7,400 paid.
> • Forbidden Door at United Center will top 15,000 fans to be AEW's second ever million-dollar gate.


Wcw never managed a 1.15m gate?? How is that possible?


----------



## 3venflow

GarpTheFirst said:


> Wcw never managed a 1.15m gate?? How is that possible?


Because tickets were cheaper then. If you ran WCW's two big Georgia Dome shows (Goldberg vs. Hogan, Nash vs. Hogan) through an inflation calculator though, what they made would be the equivalent of about $1.5m today ($900,000 to $930,000 then). But technically speaking, it's true that AEW has the biggest gates outside of WWE.

On another note, the Rampage finals are in. They did 475,000 viewers and a 0.14, placing them 14th on cable for Friday. That's their highest viewership since mid-April but the demo was better the week before at 0.15.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Some numbers from Uncle Dave.
> 
> -
> 
> AEW is likely to end up with its biggest four-week period as far as revenue from touring in its existence.
> 
> • Double or Nothing at the T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas did 13,800 paid for $1.15 million, the largest gate for a non-WWE pro wrestling event in North America history.
> • Kia Forum did 13,900 paid for $860,000, company’s third-largest paid attendance in its history.
> • Ontario, CA sold out more than a month in advance with another 7,400 paid.
> • Forbidden Door at United Center will top 15,000 fans to be AEW's second ever million-dollar gate.


this is why ‘butts in seats’ is the only true metric of success a fan can follow

everything else is vastly different from the 90s

but butts in seats never change


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> this is why ‘butts in seats’ is the only true metric of success a fan can follow
> 
> everything else is vastly different from the 90s
> 
> but butts in seats never change


How long until we're counting virtual butts in virtual seats


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> How long until we're counting virtual butts in virtual seats


you can count all the butts you want xD

i would not even go down that route with streaming and piracy

but do you see something wrong with my statement? The only real and logical way to determine success across eras is butts in seats

its like in the ‘boom period’ thread I said the same thing to crickets

what constitutes a ‘boom period’ ?

think about it, we have 3 shows a week, sometimes 4 when rampage is live, that is selling out 5k to 15k per show

that is = to the heights of wrestling


----------



## Hotdiggity11

GarpTheFist said:


> B
> 
> Wcw never managed a 1.15m gate?? How is that possible?



if accurate? Inflation.

$100 then is about $180 today (IMO the peak of WCW is ‘97 along with ‘98.





__





Value of 1997 US Dollars today - Inflation Calculator


How much are 1997 dollars (USD) worth today? This tool calculates the time value of money based on inflation and CPI historical data from the United States.




www.inflationtool.com


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you can count all the butts you want xD
> 
> i would not even go down that route with streaming and piracy
> 
> but do you see something wrong with my statement? The only real and logical way to determine success across eras is butts in seats
> 
> its like in the ‘boom period’ thread I said the same thing to crickets
> 
> what constitutes a ‘boom period’ ?
> 
> think about it, we have 3 shows a week, sometimes 4 when rampage is live, that is selling out 5k to 15k per show
> 
> that is = to the heights of wrestling


No I meant as in like actual virtual butts. Like selling tickets to VR seats in the metaverse. I'm surprised neither company has tried that yet.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> No I meant as in like actual virtual butts. Like selling tickets to VR seats in the metaverse. I'm surprised neither company has tried that yet.


lol - one day

you mean like a whole crazy experience - meet and greets, visit the stadium, ‘sit’ and watch the show

that’ll be pretty amazing actually


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - one day
> 
> you mean like a whole crazy experience - meet and greets, visit the stadium, ‘sit’ and watch the show
> 
> that’ll be pretty amazing actually


Yeah something like that, with how they do the VR YouTube videos it seem like a real marketplace for it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Yeah something like that, with how they do the VR YouTube videos it seem like a real marketplace for it.


yeah - I mean, this concept is facebook’s whole current goal

Its why the bought oculus, it’s why they’re investing in AI and why they rebranded

will be interesting to see where it’s all headed over the next 10 years


----------



## Soul Rex

Hotdiggity11 said:


> if accurate? Inflation.
> 
> $100 then is about $180 today (IMO the peak of WCW is ‘97 along with ‘98.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Value of 1997 US Dollars today - Inflation Calculator
> 
> 
> How much are 1997 dollars (USD) worth today? This tool calculates the time value of money based on inflation and CPI historical data from the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.inflationtool.com


WCW also ran smaller venues.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SCJerk/comments/v77n57
Milf Maryse > Pepsi phil


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Soul Rex said:


> WCW also ran smaller venues.



They also ran big venues. It's definitely inflationary. WCW had numerous shows with 20k+ in attendance. A few with over 30k+.







WCW Top Attendance







oswreview.com










Lenny Leonard said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SCJerk/comments/v77n57
> Milf Maryse > Pepsi phil



Puts the whole "If MJF goes to WWE, he will be the next Miz" argument in perspective.


----------



## DammitChrist

Lenny Leonard said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SCJerk/comments/v77n57
> Milf Maryse > Pepsi phil


Hey, remember when CM Punk sold out an entire arena in Chicago (full of wrestling fans who wanted to see his big return) without being advertised on the show at all last August, and how that episode still managed to reach over 1+ million viewers despite being broadcasted live on an awful time slot?

Remember when CM Punk’s quarterly segment with FTR and (an unadvertised) Hiroshi Tanahashi last week managed to draw over 1+ million views?

The guy has a broken foot, and you’re more interested in instigating a misleading argument about his drawing power.


----------



## 3venflow

Tony Khan confirmed roughly 155,000 buys for DoN. So it's their third most purchased PPV yet (Revolution buyrate still isn't final but seems to be slightly higher) and continues the year-on-year growth compared to its previous equivalents.


----------



## GarpTheFist

It made me chuckle seeing miz beat rampage. Punk's unnecessary hate of miz has more fuel now.


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

So apparently, Double or Nothing did an estimated 155,000 PPV buys.

That would make it AEW's 3rd highest PPV sales total, behind All Out 2021 and Revolution 2022. This also continues the trend of each AEW PPV beating its previous year's incarnation.

Double or Nothing 2019 - 98,000
Double or Nothing 2020 - 105,000
Double or Nothing 2021 - 115,000
Double or Nothing 2022 - 155,000

30% increase on last years event.


----------



## Sad Panda

When it comes to putting asses in the seats, and fans paying their hard earned money to watch their PPVS, AEW is incredibly successful.

It makes sense too. I’ve never been dissatisfied with a PPV nor when I’ve attended live. Good shit for the company. The growth is a what you’re looking for.


----------



## Teemu™

Looks like Punk hasn't been able to maintain interest since the fall. As expected. Also notice how it's exactly like in WWE: as soon as Punk is in the main event, buys go down. When will people learn.


----------



## DammitChrist

GarpTheFist said:


> It made me chuckle seeing miz beat rampage. Punk's unnecessary hate of miz has more fuel now.





Teemu™ said:


> Looks like Punk hasn't been able to maintain interest since the fall. As expected. Also notice how it's exactly like in WWE: as soon as Punk is in the main event, buys go down. When will people learn.


Nah, their growth in ppv buyrates over the past year has a lot to do with CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, and Adam Cole joining the company to help them out with growing even more interest to their product.


----------



## Teemu™

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, their growth in ppv buyrates over the past year has a lot to do with CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, and Adam Cole joining the company to help them out with growing even more interest to their product.


Looking at the raw data, it looks like it was a mistake not giving the title to Adam Cole. 10k people immediately decided to no longer purchase AEW pay per views. Acknowledge him, baybay, I suppose.


----------



## Not Lying

Lenny Leonard said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SCJerk/comments/v77n57
> Milf Maryse > Pepsi phil


Lol. What a reach. Pathetic.

see you in 3 weeks when their ratings are cut in half.

Debut show and all following an 1.8m episode of RAW, 1/3rd cared to stick around for the premier of this crap.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Tony Khan confirmed roughly 155,000 buys for DoN. So it's their third most purchased PPV yet (Revolution buyrate still isn't final but seems to be slightly higher) and continues the year-on-year growth compared to its previous equivalents.
> 
> View attachment 124441


so, Punk has basically brought in on average 50k paying customers more per PPV

that is what.... 2.4m per PPV

not shitty at all


----------



## GarpTheFist

So I'm looking at the ratings from 2009 and tna is consistently doing 1.5 to 2m viewers and the same for ecw, meanwhile "superstars" is doing near 1m 😂


----------



## Sad Panda

GarpTheFist said:


> So I'm looking at the ratings from 2009 and tna is consistently doing 1.5 to 2m viewers and the same for ecw, meanwhile "superstars" is doing near 1m 😂


What do these stats have to do with AEW friend?


----------



## GarpTheFist

Sad Panda said:


> What do these stats have to do with AEW friend?


I'm sure you can guess


----------



## Sad Panda

GarpTheFist said:


> I'm sure you can guess


Why guess when you can explain yourself?


----------



## 3venflow

GarpTheFist said:


> I'm sure you can guess


Have you had a look at how many people have cut the cord since then and how TV viewing habits have changed? May as well compare WWE now to back then (when RAW was still doing 5 to 6 million), it'd be equally as flawed. TNA would generally pull in about 25% to 33% of what WWE RAW was so AEW is closer to WWE in terms of their share of people who watch live/same day wrestling in 2022. WWECW also outdrew TNA's flagship show more often than not.


----------



## Sad Panda

3venflow said:


> Have you had a look at how many people have cut the cord since then and how TV viewing habits have changed? May as well compare WWE now to back then (when RAW was still doing 5 to 6 million), it'd be equally as flawed. TNA would generally pull in about 25% to 33% of what WWE RAW was so AEW is closer to WWE in terms of their share of people who watch live/same day wrestling in 2022.


I really commend your patience. Always a pleasure reading your posts.


----------



## RapShepard

Random RKO


----------



## zorori

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so, Punk has basically brought in on average 50k paying customers more per PPV
> 
> that is what.... 2.4m per PPV
> 
> not shitty at all


Isn't that worldwide? It will be less than that, since only US customers pay $50, then there's the provider cut, etc.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

zorori said:


> Isn't that worldwide? It will be less than that, since only US customers pay $50, then there's the provider cut, etc.


i don’t think this includes fite - they don’t normally this early

but I could be wrong. Who knows


----------



## CovidFan

Last night's show deserves sub 700k but in reality it'll have done well over 700k.

They can do better but Punk, Bryan, and MJF being gone is a huge handicap. I assume those 3 will miss next week as well. At least Jericho/Kingston should be some fun.


----------



## Gn1212

Watch this show do good numbers now to throw logic completely out of the window. 🤣
Honestly though, wouldn't be surprised if this does the worst numbers in the year so far.


----------



## 3venflow

Gn1212 said:


> Watch this show do good numbers now to throw logic completely out of the window. 🤣
> Honestly though, wouldn't be surprised if this does the worst numbers in the year so far.


Warriors vs. Celtic probably killed everything on TV last night. I wouldn't be surprised if that does 11m+ viewers and 4.0+ in the 18-49. History shows NBA eats into WWE and AEW numbers and this is one of the finals, not another playoff, so it could feasibly be their lowest of the year (currently 0.31 in the 18-49 on 2/16 and 833k in viewers on 5/4).

Game 1 did 11.4m viewers and 3.63 in the key demo
Game 2 did 11.9m viewers and 4.15 in the key demo

Last night was the first time a wrestling show has gone head-to-head with the NBA finals. I believe Smackdown and Rampage are up against it on Friday next.


----------



## Soul Rex

Lmao NBA finals going to drag this trash ass show into the mud.


----------



## Mr316

Soul Rex said:


> Lmao NBA finals going to drag this trash ass show into the mud.


They deserve it.


----------



## shadow_spinner

What's with the constant hate on AEW on this forum? Every thread is basically people complaining about the wrestlers, the matches, Tony how much everything sucks and now are trying to pretend that NJPW would be a bad thing. What happened to people?


----------



## Mr316

shadow_spinner said:


> What's with the constant hate on AEW on this forum? Every thread is basically people complaining about the wrestlers, the matches, Tony how much everything sucks and now are trying to pretend that NJPW would be a bad thing. What happened to people?


No one was complaining last week. Last night was a shitshow.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> They deserve it.


Nah, they deserve high ratings after delivering yet another fun show last night


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Soul Rex said:


> Lmao NBA finals going to drag this trash ass show into the mud.



NBA Finals were not even on for the first 70 minutes of Dynamite. Will LOL if that Battle Royal killed the first hour.


----------



## Chan Hung

Gn1212 said:


> Watch this show do good numbers now to throw logic completely out of the window. 🤣
> Honestly though, wouldn't be surprised if this does the worst numbers in the year so far.


Couple things.

Some here will blame the NBA if numbers are low, which in reality are not going to affect viewership much. However, it will be a defense story they will use just to latch on to an excuse. .

If the ratings are higher, some may say that it's coming from the anticipation of what MJF will do or what happens to the Punk situation. I doubt the ratings will be higher this week, than last. I would be shocked.

Personally, if you tuned in the first 15 minutes, you likely know that if that is the best that you'll get (since they usually start off that way), thus, the ratings should reflect pretty much lower than last week, due to the entire show being shitful drits.

Let's see though like you said how the numbers go.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

shadow_spinner said:


> What's with the constant hate on AEW on this forum? Every thread is basically people complaining about the wrestlers, the matches, Tony how much everything sucks and now are trying to pretend that NJPW would be a bad thing. What happened to people?


bots


----------



## Dr. Middy




----------



## omaroo

Mr316 said:


> No one was complaining last week. Last night was a shitshow.


Oh so you turned again troll...how original.

I dont even have words to describe how sad someone can be with just sheer negativity all the time.

Dont like the show. Hate the show. Hate AEW. Then to you and other haters just fuck off and go watch something else. Not too hard to grasp is it?


----------



## Mr316

omaroo said:


> Oh so you turned again troll...how original.
> 
> I dont even have words to describe how sad someone can be with just sheer negativity all the time.
> 
> Dont like the show. Hate the show. Hate AEW. Then to you and other haters just fuck off and go watch something else. Not too hard to grasp is it?


Don’t like me? Hate my opinion? Then you and other haters just fuck off go ahead and mute me and read someome else. Not too hard to grasp is it?


----------



## omaroo

Mr316 said:


> Don’t like me? Hate my opinion? Then you and other haters just fuck off go ahead and mute me and read someome else. Not too hard to grasp is it?


Being a fucking troll all the time about a product that you supposedly quit watching doesnt really show me as a hater.

I dont even know you and thank god I dont.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534989162880942081

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr316

omaroo said:


> Being a fucking troll all the time about a product that you supposedly quit watching doesnt really show me as a hater.
> 
> I dont even know you and thank god I dont.


Kiss my ass


----------



## omaroo

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534989162880942081
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Decent rating all things considered.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Honestly that's not a bad number with that shit show and the finals


----------



## Mr316

omaroo said:


> Decent rating all things considered.


Yes. Condidering how awful it was.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534990112265846791

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## .christopher.

The MJF buzz from last week helped. Problem is next week will suffer due to this weeks poor show. Unless something big gets hyped.


----------



## 3venflow

After a long time, Dynamite was back on top of the pile - the number one show on all of cable TV. It helps that the NBA is on ABC, not cable.










Here's the network numbers, with the NBA doing a ridiculous 3.65 in the key demo and 11.5m total viewers.


----------



## Gn1212

shadow_spinner said:


> What's with the constant hate on AEW on this forum? Every thread is basically people complaining about the wrestlers, the matches, Tony how much everything sucks and now are trying to pretend that NJPW would be a bad thing. What happened to people?


Nothing happened. It's just tribalism.

However, you shouldn't worry about it that much. It's a good thing people care. Whether they realize this or not, AEW is giving them a reason to give a shit about wrestling in 2022.


----------



## Gn1212

AEW doing a great number with arguably their worst show in some time is something.


----------



## Mister Sinister

I thought it would have died in real time last night when it became apparent no one else was joining the battle royale. The next few weeks are going to reflect on how stupid last night was. I predict down in the 800s next week, and maybe in the 700s two weeks from now.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I just want the quarter hours to see the plummet. @M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 are you subbed to Thurston?*


----------



## CovidFan

If they can do 940k with that garbage show against the NBA finals, they should be doing 1.1m+ next week. Anything less and they should pack it up.


----------



## Chan Hung

.christopher. said:


> The MJF buzz from last week helped. Problem is next week will suffer due to this weeks poor show. Unless something big gets hyped.


The week after a shitty show the ratings usually reflect. This week they did solid, and i believe last weeks was not so bad so there you go.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534989162880942081
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


didn’t make a milli cause Hangman mentioned Okada and no video package played


----------



## NathanMayberry

It’s always interesting how year over year numbers stopped being talked about once Dynamite was no longer able to compare unopposed episodes to one’s that went against nxt…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Geert Wilders

NathanMayberry said:


> It’s always interesting how year over year numbers stopped being talked about once Dynamite was no longer able to compare unopposed episodes to one’s that went against nxt…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


AEW has become NXT lite. The same people who lost against AEW are now being pushed in AEW.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Mox going after World Title for first time in over a year. Same week nearly doubled last year's viewership, which was down from prior year... when Mox was the champion.

Moxamania runnin' wild again, brother! <insertmoxinhoganattiresmilietoindicatethispostisajoke>


----------



## 3venflow

NathanMayberry said:


> It’s always interesting how year over year numbers stopped being talked about once Dynamite was no longer able to compare unopposed episodes to one’s that went against nxt…
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They did 487,000 viewers and 0.19 in the key demo for the equivalent show last year, because they were pre-empted against the NBA. Just like they did lower than last year some weeks recently because they were up against the NBA whereas last year they weren't. The next month or so will blow away last year's numbers for the same reason (NBA vs. no NBA).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> They did 487,000 viewers and 0.19 in the key demo for the equivalent show last year, because they were pre-empted against the NBA. Just like they did lower than last year some weeks recently because they were up against the NBA whereas last year they weren't. The next month or so will blow away last year's numbers for the same reason (NBA vs. no NBA).


trust 3venflow to set shit right


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> trust 3venflow to set shit right


*That last statement won't age well with shit shows like this.*


----------



## 3venflow

The Legit Lioness said:


> *That last statement won't age well with shit shows like this.*


The one about blowing last year's equivalent shows out of the water in the next weeks? There's no chance they're dropping to last year's preemption levels.

June 4, 2021: 462,000 / 0.19
June 11, 2021: 487,000 / 0.19
June 18, 2021: 552,000 / 0.20
June 26, 2021: 649,000 / 0.21
June 30, 2021: 883,000 / 0.35 <== this is where it'll start to get competitive again


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> The one about blowing last year's equivalent shows out of the water in the next weeks? There's no chance they're dropping to last year's preemption levels.
> 
> June 11, 2021: 487,000 / 0.19
> June 18, 2021: 552,000 / 0.20
> June 26, 2021: 649,000 / 0.21
> June 30, 2021: 883,000 / 0.35 <== this is where it'll start to get competitive again


*Ah yes, the excessive preemptions. Got it. Carry on then.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Gn1212 said:


> AEW doing a great number with arguably their worst show in some time is something.


Their 'worst' show (which was really fun for an episode that was missing several top stars) currently has a 7.48 rating on Cagematch, and that's a site that can be really critical with their evaluations whenever a show/wrestler underperforms.


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> It’s always interesting how year over year numbers stopped being talked about once Dynamite was no longer able to compare unopposed episodes to one’s that went against nxt…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are you sure that you want to be talking about year-over-year numbers here though when you realize that Dynamite last year was drawing around 500 K viewers throughout June?

That was back when they kept getting unfairly accused for losing 'half' of their overall audience (which was several weeks before the numbers inevitably skyrocketed back up).

Edit:

Never mind, @3venflow beat me to it


----------



## Mister Sinister

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Mox going after World Title for first time in over a year. Same week nearly doubled last year's viewership, which was down from prior year... when Mox was the champion.
> 
> Moxamania runnin' wild again, brother! <insertmoxinhoganattiresmilietoindicatethispostisajoke>


This might be what we are all underestimating. There may be an audience for Mox who didn't care about Omega or Page.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Decent Number good job! 

But wait im a bot! LMAO


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Mister Sinister said:


> This might be what we are all underestimating. There may be an audience for Mox who didn't care about Omega or Page.


 
Well yeah, he’s a former WWE guy that a lot of their casual fans will recognize.


----------



## La Parka

Next week should be the one to get one million.

TLC and a hair vs hair match should draw well.


----------



## bdon

Mister Sinister said:


> This might be what we are all underestimating. There may be an audience for Mox who didn't care about Omega or Page.


Omega drew well as champion. The show’s ratings fell when they decided to build it entirely around all of the E guys. 🤷🏼‍♂️


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> didn’t make a milli cause Hangman mentioned Okada and no video package played


What the E drones really won’t admit is that their boys who TK has taken to building the entire show around? They haven’t been the draw that even Omega, The Bucks, and Darby were.

I mean, Punk and Bryan had to leave the small time (ROH) for the big leagues (WWE) in order to become “a voice for the voiceless” and have the crowds admitting “yes!” we know who you are now.

The crowds FOUND Omega, all the way on the other side of the goddamned planet.
But they don’t want to have that convo…


----------



## Teemu™

bdon said:


> What the E drones really won’t admit is that their boys who TK has taken to building the entire show around? They haven’t been the draw that even Omega, The Bucks, and Darby were.
> 
> I mean, Punk and Bryan had to leave the small time (ROH) for the big leagues (WWE) in order to become “a voice for the voiceless” and have the crowds admitting “yes!” we know who you are now.
> 
> The crowds FOUND Omega, all the way on the other side of the goddamned planet.
> But they don’t want to have that convo…


Not gonna lie, and not even an AEW fan, but I kinda want Omega back. He would do AEW a lot of good. Omega as the top guy gave the company an identity. Omega is just that guy, you know. He has the cred as that guy and having him represent your company gave AEW something that none of the guys can really do. When I first saw AEW last year, about a year ago, it was curious to see the Kenny Omega everyone talks about. No one else has the same effect currently. Yea, Hangman is also an original, but I kinda do prefer having a heel be the dominant champion. Omega will probably return as a babyface and feud with Adam Cole, but still. Omega represents the modern era of wrestling, and was and is the perfect guy to work as poster boy for an AEW. Even if I personally dig Moxley.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> What the E drones really won’t admit is that their boys who TK has taken to building the entire show around? They haven’t been the draw that even Omega, The Bucks, and Darby were.
> 
> I mean, Punk and Bryan had to leave the small time (ROH) for the big leagues (WWE) in order to become “a voice for the voiceless” and have the crowds admitting “yes!” we know who you are now.
> 
> The crowds FOUND Omega, all the way on the other side of the goddamned planet.
> But they don’t want to have that convo…


the elite, darby > your fed faves

its true


----------



## bdon

Teemu™ said:


> Not gonna lie, and not even an AEW fan, but I kinda want Omega back. He would do AEW a lot of good. Omega as the top guy gave the company an identity. Omega is just that guy, you know. He has the cred as that guy and having him represent your company gave AEW something that none of the guys can really do. When I first saw AEW last year, about a year ago, it was curious to see the Kenny Omega everyone talks about. No one else has the same effect currently. Yea, Hangman is also an original, but I kinda do prefer having a heel be the dominant champion. Omega will probably return as a babyface and feud with Adam Cole, but still. Omega represents the modern era of wrestling, and was and is the perfect guy to work as poster boy for an AEW. Even if I personally dig Moxley.


Well, as I often say, Omega and Moxley are the Yin and Yang of AEW. They represent the company (for better or worse) better than anyone else. 


LifeInCattleClass said:


> the elite, darby > your fed faves
> 
> its true


It’s damn true!

And I know we’re joking a little, but there is some truth in every joke.


----------



## DammitChrist

Teemu™ said:


> Not gonna lie, and not even an AEW fan, but I kinda want Omega back. He would do AEW a lot of good. Omega as the top guy gave the company an identity. Omega is just that guy, you know. He has the cred as that guy and having him represent your company gave AEW something that none of the guys can really do. When I first saw AEW last year, about a year ago, it was curious to see the Kenny Omega everyone talks about. No one else has the same effect currently. Yea, Hangman is also an original, but I kinda do prefer having a heel be the dominant champion. Omega will probably return as a babyface and feud with Adam Cole, but still. Omega represents the modern era of wrestling, and was and is the perfect guy to work as poster boy for an AEW. Even if I personally dig Moxley.


Woah, did we just personally agree on something (regarding Kenny Omega here)?


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

NathanMayberry said:


> It’s always interesting how year over year numbers stopped being talked about once Dynamite was no longer able to compare unopposed episodes to one’s that went against nxt…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can only assume it's because people realised comparing television ratings to a previous year on a dying industry like cable is silly?

Ticket sales and gates are probably a better thing to compare year on year to see if a company is truly growing, not television numbers.

On a totally unrelated note to your post...

#1 on cable during the NBA finals seems rather.... _good_

Not as good of a number or demo as last week as to be expected. Last week was the fall out to a PPV, Punk as champion for the first time and the whole MJF business so this show lacked a lot of 'starpower' but it held up relatively well. Good effort.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Omega doesn’t need to return anytime soon. He felt irrelevant as World Champion for most of his run and doesn’t bring anything to the table dozens of other guys in AEW do. He has a bit more star power than most of those guys, but that’s it. He can and should take as much time as he needs to return and the company will be fine.

The only thing AEW needs to do is not screw this MJF storyline up. They have a hard time capitalizing on momentum they get, but this is actually a potential game changing storyline. MJF is the true star of the company right now, and while taking him off TV makes sense he needs to be back on the show somewhat sooner rather than later. Even if it’s unadvertised.


----------



## 3venflow

WON:

_Dynamite lost to ABC, but beat CBS in the first hour, beat NBC all night, and beat FOX in the second hour so both hours Dynamite was third in 18-49 in all of TV, And that’s with the huge advantage of network over cable in viewers._


----------



## 3venflow

From the WON. As you'd expect, hour one outdid hour two when the NBA final started. Pre-game NBA coverage started in Q3, the game proper around the start of Q5.

Viewership peak in Q1, 18-49 peak in Q2.

Hour one: 1.019m viewers / 472k 18-49
Hour two: 861k viewers / 412k 18-49

Q1 - Casino Battle Royal - 1,128,000 / 500,000
Q2 - Casino Battle Royal - 1,087,000 / 516,000
Q3 - PAC vs. Buddy Matthews - 957,000 / 435,000
Q4 - Eddie, FTR/Trent, UE (both) interviews - 904,000 / 438,000
Q5 - Hangman vs. Finlay - 889,000 / 441,000
Q6 - TR/Marina, Wardlow, Tag titles interviews - 872,000 / 428,000
Q7 - Thunder Rosa vs. Marina Shafir - 830,000 / 394,000
Q8 - Moxley vs. KOR - 851,000 / 419,000


----------



## DammitChrist

Yep, that looks about right knowing the strong competition they faced in the 2nd hour.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Idk if this was posted, but last week's chart showed 169,000 people left after the MJF promo:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535037836201689088
This once again kills the myth that wrestling draws, even here.*


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> From the WON. As you'd expect, hour one outdid hour two when the NBA final started. Pre-game NBA coverage started in Q3, the game proper around the start of Q5.
> 
> Viewership peak in Q1, 18-49 peak in Q2.
> 
> Hour one: 1.019m viewers / 472k 18-49
> Hour two: 861k viewers / 412k 18-49
> 
> Q1 - Casino Battle Royal - 1,128,000 / 500,000
> Q2 - Casino Battle Royal - 1,087,000 / 516,000
> Q3 - PAC vs. Buddy Matthews - 957,000 / 435,000
> Q4 - Eddie, FTR/Trent, UE (both) interviews - 904,000 / 438,000
> Q5 - Hangman vs. Finlay - 889,000 / 441,000
> Q6 - TR/Marina, Wardlow, Tag titles interviews - 872,000 / 428,000
> Q7 - Thunder Rosa vs. Marina Shafir - 830,000 / 394,000
> Q8 - Moxley vs. KOR - 851,000 / 419,000


*As expected, the show opened strong and 130,000 people once again tuned out when they saw all the jobbers and the eventual winner.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Forbidden Door is literally sold out already (over a month in advance too) at the concept of *GOOD/NEW* wrestling matches.

That alone proves the fact that wrestling does draw well.

For the record, one of the highest quarterly segments in Dynamite’s short history involve a 20+ minute Elimination tag match at Fight for the Fallen last July (which had Kenny Omega, Adam Page, and the Young Bucks in it) that drew 1.3+ million viewers.

Kyle O’Reilly vs Samoa Joe just a few weeks ago saw a notable increase in viewership, which turned out to be a pretty damn good wrestling match that lasted around 12 minutes.

It’s not a myth. Wrestling draws. That’s kinda the big concept of doing these ppvs.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Next week is the first time they haven’t had any live sports competition in a long time. No NBA, Hockey, or Golf. They should be shooting for a 0.45+


----------



## Whoanma

The Legit Lioness said:


> *As expected, the show opened strong and 130,000 people once again tuned out when they saw all the jobbers and the eventual winner.*


KoR the draw.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Whoanma said:


> KoR the ANTI draw.


*FIXED! *


----------



## DammitChrist

Whoanma said:


> KoR the draw.


Kyle O’Reilly was in the highest quarterly rated segment on Dynamite this week, was able to recover 20 K viewers (along with Jon Moxley) in spite of the strong competition during the main event, and his match with Samoa Joe 2 weeks ago saw a decent increase in viewership for that main event.

If anything, this just proves that O’Reilly is also a reliable hand in terms of maintaining interest for his big singles matches.


----------



## Whoanma

DammitChrist said:


> Kyle O’Reilly was in the highest quarterly rated segment on Dynamite this week, was able to recover 20 K viewers (along with Jon Moxley) in spite of the strong competition during the main event, and his match with Samoa Joe 2 weeks ago saw a decent increase in viewership for that main event.
> 
> If anything, this just proves that O’Reilly is also a reliable hand in terms of maintaining interest for his big singles matches.


I’m sorry, I know you like those guys, but they soured me on nXt and now I have to watch them overexposed on AEW. I‘ll never say anything remotely positive about any of them, I just can’t. I can’t wait for the day they get released, sorry if that bothers you.


----------



## omaroo

Whoanma said:


> I’m sorry, I know you like those guys, but they soured me on nXt and now I have to watch them overexposed on AEW. I‘ll never say anything remotely positive about any of them, I just can’t. I can’t wait for the day they get released, sorry if that bothers you.


They might be good in ring workers but they dont get me invested at all.

How the hell they are featured so much over guys like hobbs, starks, death triangle, HOB etc is mind blowing.


----------



## DammitChrist

I get the hype with all those other names, but I just don't get the hype with Powerhouse Hobbs.

He's like the least impressive member in Team Taz. The booking for Hobbs (as a midcard/tag guy) is where he should be presented for now.

Anyway, I do hope that Adam Cole and Kyle O'Reilly continue to be on TV every week. They deserve to be mainstays in the upper card.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

3venflow said:


> Have you had a look at how many people have cut the cord since then and how TV viewing habits have changed?





3venflow said:


> Warriors vs. Celtic probably killed everything on TV last night. I wouldn't be surprised if that does 11m+ viewers and 4.0+ in the 18-49.


This doesn't make sense, friend.



omaroo said:


> Oh so you turned again troll...how original.
> 
> I dont even have words to describe how sad someone can be with just sheer negativity all the time.
> 
> Dont like the show. Hate the show. Hate AEW. Then to you and other haters just fuck off and go watch something else. Not too hard to grasp is it?


Oh look, the "Don't like? Don't watch!" argument again.



DammitChrist said:


> Their 'worst' show (which was really fun for an episode that was missing several top stars) currently has a 7.48 rating on Cagematch, and that's a site that can be really critical with their evaluations whenever a show/wrestler underperforms.


Cagematch is a site for smart marks, of course the worst AEW show on there is well above average.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Kyle O’Rly killed the town. 🤣

I wish to admit I was one of the 237k that watched him win the battle royal but had no interest in watching the main event. Especially with Marina Shafir as the lead-in to it. 😉


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Chip Chipperson said:


> This doesn't make sense, friend.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh look, the "Don't like? Don't watch!" argument again.
> 
> 
> 
> Cagematch is a site for smart marks, of course the worst AEW show on there is well above average.


Cagematch is great for historical information (Finding past matches for guys during certain time periods and what promotions they worked in). But yeah, a place that has Adam Cole significantly rated higher than Hulk Hogan with all the top rated guys being Japanese wrestlers is definitely work rate smarks territory.


----------



## 3venflow

Chip Chipperson said:


> This doesn't make sense, friend.


Why not? Warriors vs. Celtics wasn't on cable for one, and two, it's factual that millions have cut the cord in America and it continues to lose subscribers quarter by quarter.

Any episodic show that is growing its audience on cable is an anomaly in 2022. Just look at what The Walking Dead is doing now (1.5m to 2m) compared to what it was ten years ago (10m to 12m). Or more relevant, look at WWE RAW's ratings year on year.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Kyle O’Rly killed the town. 🤣
> 
> I wish to admit I was one of the 237k that watched him win the battle royal but had no interest in watching the main event. Especially with Marina Shafir as the lead-in to it. 😉


It shows an *increase* in viewership for Kyle O'Reilly's match against Jon Moxley, which isn't the first time that a rise in viewership happening in a main event involving the guy since the same instance happened in his match against Samoa Joe 2 weeks ago.

Plus, O'Reilly was also part of the most watched quarterly segment at over 1 million viewers this week. If he was such an 'anti-draw' or a 'ratings killer' (which he's not), then that Battle Royal would've drew under 920 K viewers while the segments afterwards increased in viewership to around 1 million viewers (which didn't happen at all).

Can we not give misleading information involving talents we dislike?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> It shows an *increase* in viewership for Kyle O'Reilly's match against Jon Moxley, which isn't the first time that a rise in viewership happening in a main event involving the guy since the same instance happened in his match against Samoa Joe 2 weeks ago.
> 
> Plus, O'Reilly was also part of the most watched quarterly segment at over 1 million viewers this week. If he was such an 'anti-draw' or a 'ratings killer' (which he's not), then that Battle Royal would've drew under 920 K viewers while the segments afterwards increased in viewership (which didn't happen at all).
> 
> Can we not give misleading information involving talents we dislike?


Q2 - Casino Battle Royal - 1,087,000 / 516,000

Q8 - Moxley vs. KOR - 851,000 / 419,000



Quite the increase there. 😂


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> Cagematch is a site for smart marks, of course the worst AEW show on there is well above average.


To be fair, it's the same site that criminally underrates Britt Baker, and that consistently gives low ratings for Elevation episodes plus AEW Dark episodes.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Q2 - Casino Battle Royal - 1,087,000 / 516,000
> 
> Q8 - Moxley vs. KOR - 851,000 / 419,000
> 
> 
> 
> Quite the increase there. 😂


Look at that Q7, and get back to me then 😂

You're being spiteful on purpose.

For the record, I see you conveniently ignored the fact that O'Reilly was part of the most watched quarterly segment, which kills your 'anti-draw' myth about him. I can tell that you didn't bother reading my whole post properly.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> Look at that Q7, and get back to me then 😂
> 
> You're being spiteful on purpose.
> 
> For the record, I see you conveniently ignored the fact that O'Reilly was part of the most watched quarterly segment, which kills your 'anti-draw' myth about him. I can tell that you didn't bother reading my whole post properly.



Except I wasn’t talking about Marina/TR’s ratings? I compared the people who saw O’Reilly win to those wanting to see him in the main event. Looks like you should be the one going back and properly reading my posts. 😉


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Except I wasn’t talking about Marina/TR’s ratings? I compared the people who saw O’Reilly win to those wanting to see him in the main event. Looks like you should be the one going back and properly reading my posts. 😉


Okay, so you're willingly ignoring the strong competition that Dynamite faced throughout the 2nd hour this week; which explains why they went under 900 K viewers for ALL those quarterly segments in favor of a misleading argument that doesn't even provide the full context then


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> Okay, so you're willingly ignoring the strong competition that Dynamite faced throughout the 2nd hour this week; which explains why they went under 900 K viewers in favor of a misleading argument that doesn't even provide the full context then


Context is: Kyle O’Reilly probably shouldn’t be opening and closing Dynamite. 🤣


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Context is: Kyle O’Reilly probably *shouldn’t be opening* and closing Dynamite. 🤣


Nah, O'Reilly's match in the first 2 quarterly segments were the highest at over a million viewers.

It might've been a Battle Royal. However, it still counts since that match included O'Reilly too.

The numbers show that he isn't the 'ratings killer' that he's made out to be here.

Plus, Kyle O'Reilly's match against Jon Moxley this week was one of the best singles matches that's been televised on Dynamite so far; so no, he deserves his place in the upper card.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, O'Reilly's match in the first 2 quarterly segments were the highest at over a million viewers.
> 
> It might've been a Battle Royal. However, it still counts since that match included O'Reilly too.
> 
> The numbers show that he isn't the 'ratings killer' that he's made out to be here.


Yeah, a battle royal. In which no one knew who all was going to be in it. I do recall tons of people here fantasy booking Danielson, Wardlow, Jericho, a returning Omega, MJF, and Darby in that match. Only one of them was there. KOR winning was a big lead balloon. 🤣


----------



## Randy Lahey

The fact Kyle/Mox increased viewers despite being up against an NBA Finals game is a big positive for both guys.


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> For the record, I see you conveniently ignored the fact that O'Reilly was part of the most watched quarterly segment


You can't even debate in good faith. KOR may have been in that segment but that segment's big because of the lead in and he was 1 part of 50 guys in that segment. The actual draw in that match was the world title and that nobody knew who was going to be in it. And yes you can roll your eyes if you'd like but you have no actual good faith argument.


----------



## DammitChrist

CovidFan said:


> You can't even debate in good faith. KOR may have been in that segment but that segment's big because of the lead in and he was 1 part of 50 guys in that segment. The actual draw in that match was the world title and that nobody knew who was going to be in it. And yes you can roll your eyes if you'd like but you have no actual good faith argument.


That was only 1 example though to be fair.

Here is another case of Kyle O'Reilly not tanking the ratings 2 weeks against Samoa Joe (which I trust that you'll acknowledge at least):











That entire 2nd hour struggled, but that main event (featuring O'Reilly and Joe) recovered reasonably well at least.


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> That was only 1 example though to be fair.


That wasn't an example. That was bs you say because you like someone.

Yes we went through this Joe thing before. Remember when I said "good job Joe"  . Good job Mox. Though I'll give KOR a bit more credit this time. I just don't enjoy him _shrug_


----------



## CovidFan

_I'll say this for KOR. I think he should be on tv a lot. He brings in a bit of realism and that's what makes Joe so great and to a much lesser extent, Moxley. They don't make a joke of wrestling as quite a few AEW wrestlers do with their gymnastics routines_


----------



## .christopher.

That big starting number is 100% MJF. I’m not even a fan and I can say that.

It’s as I said, his impact would be seen this week from his promo and he delivered. Problem is, AGAIN, AEW squander all that buzz in record time.


----------



## Mister Sinister

So they started big and then flopped in real time when everyone saw there was no MJF or Wardlow.


----------



## NathanMayberry

DammitChrist said:


> Forbidden Door is literally sold out already (over a month in advance too) at the concept of *GOOD/NEW* wrestling matches.


AEW is the only promotion with "sold out" shows where the tickets on the secondary market CONSTANTLY sells for less than the original price.









AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door Tickets


AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door tickets - Buy and sell AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door tickets at StubHub




www.stubhub.com





There are literally hundreds of seats going for below retail value right now. Entire rows (13 seats together in section 227 for example) are up for sale. The show is still 2 weeks away but I wouldn;t be surprised if the prices dropped even further like they did for The Last Dance or Dynamite debut when they were going for like $4 on the secondary market.

Nothing says a legitimate sell out more than people who were so interested in buying tickets a few weeks ago, not buying them at an even cheaper price now. I'd love it if concert tickets were like AEW "sold out" tickets.. The Bad Bunny concert sold here and tickets that retailed at $150 were going for $400+ on resale.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

.christopher. said:


> The MJF buzz from last week helped. Problem is next week will suffer due to this weeks poor show. Unless something big gets hyped.


Agree


----------



## GarpTheFist

NathanMayberry said:


> AEW is the only promotion with "sold out" shows where the tickets on the secondary market CONSTANTLY sells for less than the original price.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door Tickets
> 
> 
> AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door tickets - Buy and sell AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door tickets at StubHub
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.stubhub.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are literally hundreds of seats going for below retail value right now. Entire rows (13 seats together in section 227 for example) are up for sale. The show is still 2 weeks away but I wouldn;t be surprised if the prices dropped even further like they did for The Last Dance or Dynamite debut when they were going for like $4 on the secondary market.
> 
> Nothing says a legitimate sell out more than people who were so interested in buying tickets a few weeks ago, not buying them at an even cheaper price now. I'd love it if concert tickets were like AEW "sold out" tickets.. The Bad Bunny concert sold here and tickets that retailed at $150 were going for $400+ on resale.


So that's how they "sell out"? 😂 no wonder none of the wrestling channels that jerk them off ever mentioned this, how embarrassing


----------



## 3venflow

Tickets appearing on scalper sites means the scalpers anticipated demand. As shows draw closer, prices drop. If there was no demand, the scalpers wouldn't buy tickets in the first place.

From an AEW perspective, those tickets are sold. They have sold over $1m worth of them. The scalpers paid full price for them and bought around 2,300 of the 15,000 sold.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Cagematch and its users are infested with brainworms. Great site for historical info though.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*"Will Ospreay needs no introduction"* 😂

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535681021860933632


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> Tickets appearing on scalper sites means the scalpers anticipated demand. As shows draw closer, prices drop. If there was no demand, the scalpers wouldn't buy tickets in the first place.
> 
> From an AEW perspective, those tickets are sold. They have sold over $1m worth of them. The scalpers paid full price for them and bought around 2,300 of the 15,000 sold.


That's totally it! 

Scalpers are totally in the business of spending tens of thousands of dollars to make a loss, just so Tiny Kahn can look good. 

Does scalper mean charity or idiot in the UK?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NathanMayberry said:


> That's totally it!
> 
> Scalpers are totally in the business of spending tens of thousands of dollars to make a loss, just so Tiny Kahn can look good.
> 
> Does scalper mean charity or idiot in the UK?


I do get what he means, an example for me would be if I hosted a show and all my seats got bought up by scalpers that is technically a sell out for me and technically I've made my money so I don't really care too much past the wanting actual fans in the building.

However, it is incorrect to use these sell outs as a way to gauge AEW's popularity if scalpers are buying them up.


----------



## 3venflow

NathanMayberry said:


> That's totally it!
> 
> Scalpers are totally in the business of spending tens of thousands of dollars to make a loss, just so Tiny Kahn can look good.
> 
> Does scalper mean charity or idiot in the UK?


Maybe the scalpers overestimated secondary demand. Or maybe people don't want limited view tickets? The link you posted, the cheapest lot say 'limited or obstructed view', which would be off-putting to me personally.

Thousands were turned away trying to get tickets on the first go. There were screenshots on Twitter of the queue size. That's a fact. After an actual card is announced, people may explore the secondary market more. Ditto the limited view seats page they added to Ticketmaster.

Fact is though, as much as you weirdos who want the company to fail and die project in here, AEW sold all of the main tickets and is this will be the second $1m gate for a non-WWE show in American wrestling history. An unequivocal financial success no matter how much you try to spin it. And we've gone from 'they'll never sell tickets with NJPW!' to 'scalpers can't sell their tickets!'.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

It astounds me how people don’t know in 2022 how scalpers work or what constitutes a sell out

never change haters, your tears is honey for my tea


----------



## omaroo

Fuck the haters and like it or not but fucking AEW has shown unprecedented success. 

Expecting them to be like the WWE machine is beyond illogical..


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Legit Lioness said:


> *"Will Ospreay needs no introduction"* 😂
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535681021860933632


This dude's twitter mirrors that AEWBotch twitter. 

Like an odd continually shitting of it weekly.


----------



## JasmineAEW

LifeInCattleClass said:


> It astounds me how people don’t know in 2022 how scalpers work or what constitutes a sell out
> 
> never change haters, your tears is honey for my tea


I have no idea how scalpers work. I just wish they’d all drop dead.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dr. Middy said:


> This dude's twitter mirrors that AEWBotch twitter.
> 
> Like an odd continually shitting of it weekly.


*Can you actually respond to the criticism though?*


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Can you actually respond to the criticism though?*


In the particular tweet, I don't really pay attention to fast nationals, never did.

Regarding that Rampage show, I didn't watch it because I was busy, and plan on rewatching it at some point. That being said, I'd prefer if they made like highlight video packages for Ospreay and other NJPW stars they bring over so people who might not know who they are perhaps becomes interested. It doesn't bother me too much since I already am an avid fan of NJPW to begin with, but I get that part.

Regarding the Rampage numbers in general, it's a B show treated as such that was hurt from the booking (like when they try to shove too many things onto it and forgo entrances, which I think turns people off; or the higher usage of lower midcarders) and the way it constantly seemed to jump around timeslots. It getting 400-500K with some weeks above 500 on occasion probably is where it'll remain as long as it sticks to said timeslot.

If you like seeing some of the other acts you don't see on Dynamite as much, and like an overall short wrestling show, then Rampage is good. I more often than not enjoy it for what it is, but it has faults aplenty.


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> Maybe the scalpers overestimated secondary demand. Or maybe people don't want limited view tickets? The link you posted, the cheapest lot say 'limited or obstructed view', which would be off-putting to me personally.
> 
> Thousands were turned away trying to get tickets on the first go. There were screenshots on Twitter of the queue size. That's a fact. After an actual card is announced, people may explore the secondary market more. Ditto the limited view seats page they added to Ticketmaster.
> 
> Fact is though, as much as you weirdos who want the company to fail and die project in here, AEW sold all of the main tickets and is this will be the second $1m gate for a non-WWE show in American wrestling history. An unequivocal financial success no matter how much you try to spin it. And we've gone from 'they'll never sell tickets with NJPW!' to 'scalpers can't sell their tickets!'.
> 
> View attachment 124798


It astounds me how in 2022 people don't know how bots work.

2000 people waiting in line, in that screenshot, thousands of people who weren't able to get through overall, yet for some reason those totally real people aren't buying even better seats at cheaper prices.. 

Artists and companies buying their own tickets for their concerts and events have been happening for decades.. The latest weird music industry scheme: artists scalping their own tickets - usually its done for profit because these sold out tickets are in high demand and they can be marked up for the desperate fans.With AEW its completely different, these shows that sell out in matter of minutes somehow have no demand from the fans who missed out.. its bizarre


----------



## La Parka

The Legit Lioness said:


> *"Will Ospreay needs no introduction"* 😂
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535681021860933632


It’s a shame because I think an Ospreay introduction would make a lot of fans interested but AEW seems intent on only catering to the fringes of its audience.


----------



## 3venflow

NathanMayberry said:


> It astounds me how in 2022 people don't know how bots work.
> 
> 2000 people waiting in line, in that screenshot, thousands of people who weren't able to get through overall, yet for some reason those totally real people aren't buying even better seats at cheaper prices..
> 
> Artists and companies buying their own tickets for their concerts and events have been happening for decades.. The latest weird music industry scheme: artists scalping their own tickets - usually its done for profit because these sold out tickets are in high demand and they can be marked up for the desperate fans.With AEW its completely different, these shows that sell out in matter of minutes somehow have no demand from the fans who missed out.. its bizarre


WrestleTix has/d the full data on people sales vs. scalper sales using his software, and about 2,300~2,400 of the initial lot of 15,000ish sold were scooped up by scalpers. The rest were gone, finito, not for resale. When tickets for The First Dance went on sale, 3,500 of the initial 13,600 sold were picked up by scalpers, which is a higher % than this show. By bell time, the place was crammed.

You also deliberately sorted by lowest price on that site, so basically the least appealing (obstructed/limited view) seats appeared first. If you sort by row, there are tickets going for huge prices, over $1,000. I just sorted by lowest for Summerslam, lo and behold, there are cheap tickets for that on StubHub too.









WWE SummerSlam Tickets


WWE SummerSlam tickets - Buy and sell WWE SummerSlam tickets at StubHub




www.stubhub.com





You just have this bizarro grudge against AEW and/or Tony Khan so much that you're not willing to accept _anything_ they do is a success. When in fact, ticket sales are one of their strongest points and have gone to places TNA could never even imagine. They have made a million-plus dollars from ticket sales from this show. Only one other show outside of WWE has managed to do that since the late 90s when WCW existed, and that happened recently (Double or Nothing 2022). By all means, continue your hot takes about the ratings, but ticket sales are certainly not one of AEW's big concerns. And come Forbidden Door, you'll see nearly every seat full, just like at Double or Nothing (where there was also a big secondary market), the recent Forum show that did over 14,000, and of course Grand Slam.


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535732247017492482
I assume that's the Will Ospreay affect.


----------



## DammitChrist

Jeru The Damaja said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535732247017492482
> I assume that's the Will Ospreay affect.


The (Billy GOAT) man who needs no introduction getting that attention!


----------



## Gn1212

Jeru The Damaja said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535732247017492482
> I assume that's the Will Ospreay affect.


You got the wrong date.


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

Gn1212 said:


> You got the wrong date.


God damn it, I am.

Apparently, 182k watched the 27th may episode of Dynamite too. Which is actually rather impressive considering it airs Friday nights in the UK.


----------



## Gn1212

Jeru The Damaja said:


> God damn it, I am.
> 
> Apparently, 182k watched the 27th may episode of Dynamite too. Which is actually rather impressive considering it airs Friday nights in the UK.


Tony wasn't lying when he said AEW does well in the UK. I've met quite a few people who watch it on ITV and I always tell them to watch it on Fite instead.


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage finals:

Viewers: 476,000
18-49: 0.16

This would make it the highest numbers in both metrics since April 22, which isn't surprising as it's back in the regular timeslot so things will start to normalize again.

They finished 6th on cable, which is pretty good although there was very little competition on the night on cable itself. The NBA finals did 12m viewers and 3.63 in the 18-49 on ABC.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *"Will Ospreay needs no introduction"* 😂
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535681021860933632


i’m sorry, what?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’m sorry, what?


*Huh? Fast Nationals are always lower than the final. They just give you a ballpark figure.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Huh? Fast Nationals are always lower than the final. They just give you a ballpark figure.*


i know - but it was all like ‘lolz’

and it ended up being an ok day

no ‘lolz’ needed


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i know - but it was all like ‘lolz’
> 
> and it ended up being an ok day
> 
> no ‘lolz’ needed


*Under 500k viewers featuring the first AEW match of an INTERNATIONAL SUPERSTAR THAT DON'T NEED NO EVIL FED VIDEO PACKAGES is definitely laughable 😂*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Under 500k viewers featuring the first AEW match of an INTERNATIONAL SUPERSTAR THAT DON'T NEED NO EVIL FED VIDEO PACKAGES is definitely laughable 😂*


they were 6th on the night

and the numbers were up after being moved around for 4 weeks

thats a win


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they were 6th on the night
> 
> and the numbers were up after being moved around for 4 weeks
> 
> thats a win


*Nah, it's an L. Everyone should just GOOGLE Rampage start times every week so they know when to watch. *


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Nah, it's an L. Everyone should just GOOGLE Rampage start times every week so they know when to watch. *


lol, they should

its just the casuals who didn’t watch cause they can’t google

not sure why that’s a point of pride, but we live in weird times


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they were 6th on the night
> 
> and the numbers were up after being moved around for 4 weeks
> 
> thats a win


The best/highest ratings (in spite of the shitty time slot) in the last 1-2 months is the episode with Will Ospreay in it, which is an unsurprising W.

You'd love to see it


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DammitChrist said:


> The best/highest ratings (in spite of the shitty time slot) in the last 1-2 months is the episode with Will Ospreay in it, which is an unsurprising W.
> 
> You'd love to see it


billy goat does it again, draws the hardcores that knows how the google

smart fans indeed


----------



## TheDraw

I never check this thread or ratings until today. I was surprised to see AEW on a downward trend. Reading online from most fans I would have thought they had WWE numbers.


----------



## Mr316

TheDraw said:


> I never check this thread or ratings until today. I was surprised to see AEW on a downward trend. Reading online from most fans I would have thought they had WWE numbers.


not even close brother


----------



## GarpTheFist

TheDraw said:


> I never check this thread or ratings until today. I was surprised to see AEW on a downward trend. Reading online from most fans I would have thought they had WWE numbers.


Thats also the impression i had before i came to this forum. We are surrounded by so many aew tryhards who never dislike anything, but its only a bubble that we live in. Nobody outisde of this bubble likes or cares aew and that ratings prove that.
Ofcourse there will be excuses for it, spearheaded by a certain someone


----------



## IronMan8

GarpTheFist said:


> Thats also the impression i had before i came to this forum. We are surrounded by so many aew tryhards who never dislike anything, but its only a bubble that we live in. Nobody outisde of this bubble likes or cares aew and that ratings prove that.
> Ofcourse there will be excuses for it, spearheaded by a certain someone


Welcome to the future, poster from 2020!

A lot has changed in the world since you got that flux capacitor working, I'd suggest you spend a few weeks on Google to catch-up on everything you missed.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

IronMan8 said:


> Welcome to the future, poster from 2020!
> 
> A lot has changed in the world since you got that flux capacitor working, I'd suggest you spend a few weeks on Google to catch-up on everything you missed.


GREAT SCOTT!!


----------



## the_flock

Chip Chipperson said:


> I do get what he means, an example for me would be if I hosted a show and all my seats got bought up by scalpers that is technically a sell out for me and technically I've made my money so I don't really care too much past the wanting actual fans in the building.
> 
> However, it is incorrect to use these sell outs as a way to gauge AEW's popularity if scalpers are buying them up.


It's been reported multiple times that a shed load of tickets are being given away, which is usual in this business. 

I wouldn't believe that scalpers are buying all the tickets when there's people on social media saying they are given up to 10 tickets every week for Dynamite free of charge.


----------



## the_flock

3venflow said:


> Rampage finals:
> 
> Viewers: 476,000
> 18-49: 0.16
> 
> This would make it the highest numbers in both metrics since April 22, which isn't surprising as it's back in the regular timeslot so things will start to normalize again.
> 
> They finished 6th on cable, which is pretty good although there was very little competition on the night on cable itself. The NBA finals did 12m viewers and 3.63 in the 18-49 on ABC.
> 
> View attachment 124968


They didn't finish 6th, they were 18th.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> It's been reported multiple times that a shed load of tickets are being given away, which is usual in this business.
> 
> I wouldn't believe that scalpers are buying all the tickets when there's people on social media saying they are given up to 10 tickets every week for Dynamite free of charge.


i think you‘re thinking about RAW

i saw on twitter someone was comped 4 front row tix this past Raw


----------



## the_flock

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think you‘re thinking about RAW
> 
> i saw on twitter someone was comped 4 front row tix this past Raw


No it was definitely Dynamite. Lots of posts on social media, saying don't believe ticket sales. Lots of people saying they never buy tickets for Dynamite, they wait until a couple of days before and usually get them for free.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> No it was definitely Dynamite. Lots of posts on social media, saying don't believe ticket sales. Lots of people saying they never buy tickets for Dynamite, they wait until a couple of days before and usually get them for free.


you would think there would be some people on this board it happened to


----------



## 3venflow

the_flock said:


> They didn't finish 6th, they were 18th.


No, they finished sixth. The default and industry standard ranking is Nielsen's 18-49. That's why FOX, USA and TBS often tout Smackdown, RAW and Dynamite as the #1 show, when otherwise none of them would ever finish #1 and most of the top rankings would be occupied by news shows. Only American Ninja Wars and the usual CW stuff finished below Smackdown in P2+ on all of network last Friday, but Smackdown finished fourth in 18-49 behind NBA and Jimmy Kimmel. If it was viewership-first, FOX would axe Smackdown without second thought as it never finishes near the top of network's P2+. But Smackdown is a big player in the 18-49 so worth its weight in gold.

I'm amazed this is still an argument in 2022. Stop the bad faith bullshit and be objective for once. WWE and AEW are successful because of their younger audience and that's why they keep these cushy deals. If these shows were judged on total viewers, it'd be a brutal death for them all. RAW ranked #1, #2 and #3 for each hour on Monday, but the 55th placed January 6th Hearings on MSNBC had more viewers. But that means squat to the network.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

3venflow said:


> No, they finished sixth. The default and industry standard ranking is Nielsen's 18-49. That's why FOX, USA and TBS often tout Smackdown, RAW and Dynamite as the #1 show, when otherwise none of them would ever finish #1 and most of the top rankings would be occupied by news shows. Only American Ninja Wars and the usual CW stuff finished below Smackdown in P2+ on all of network last Friday, but Smackdown finished fourth in 18-49 behind NBA and Jimmy Kimmel. If it was viewership-first, FOX would axe Smackdown without second thought as it never finishes near the top of network's P2+. But Smackdown is a big player in the 18-49 so worth its weight in gold.
> 
> I'm amazed this is still an argument in 2022. Stop the bad faith bullshit and be objective for once. WWE and AEW are successful because of their younger audience and that's why they keep these cushy deals. If these shows were judged on total viewers, it'd be a brutal death for them all. RAW ranked #1, #2 and #3 for each hour on Monday, but the 55th placed January 6th Hearings on MSNBC had more viewers. But that means squat to the network.


We're back to this argument, hey?

The Reddit census shows that most AEW fans live with roommates/at home with parents, are under the average wage earners annually, pirate AEW PPVs etc.

Which advertiser sees that and says "We need to target these people"?


----------



## 3venflow

Chip Chipperson said:


> We're back to this argument, hey?
> 
> The Reddit census shows that most AEW fans live with roommates/at home with parents, are under the average wage earners annually, pirate AEW PPVs etc.
> 
> Which advertiser sees that and says "We need to target these people"?


If their ads didn't make a decent amount of money, they wouldn't be in primetime. And if total viewers were the be-all and end-all, they may as well run news around the clock on every channel as that's guaranteed millions of boomer viewers.

You always go back to the Reddit census as if that's some definitive proof of something or else. But it is both a limited sample size and doesn't represent all wrestling fans. For example, I didn't take that census and am not exactly poor (nor rich). How many WFers took that census? How many of the wealthier wrestling fans or those with families even bother with Reddit?

AEW fans sure have enough money to buy tickets and merchandise in droves. Have you seen the merchandise lines at AEW events? Did you see how popular the meet-and-greets were before DoN?

Just because they don't attract live sport level ad revenues, doesn't mean their 18-49 audience is irrelevant and all on the poverty line. The three main wrestling shows are all in primetime for a reason. All would be axed in favor of cheaper programming if their 18-49s were worthless.

Pro wrestling will never be as valuable as the Premier League, NBA or NFL, but it has it clearly has its appeal to networks all around the world. WWE has a huge global footprint and AEW is adding new TV deals across the globe regularly.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

3venflow said:


> If their ads didn't make a decent amount of money, they wouldn't be in primetime. And if total viewers were the be-all and end-all, they may as well run news around the clock on every channel as that's guaranteed millions of boomer viewers.
> 
> You always go back to the Reddit census as if that's some definitive proof of something or else. But it is both a limited sample size and doesn't represent all wrestling fans. For example, I didn't take that census and am not exactly poor (nor rich). How many WFers took that census? How many of the wealthier wrestling fans or those with families even bother with Reddit?
> 
> AEW fans sure have enough money to buy tickets and merchandise in droves. Have you seen the merchandise lines at AEW events? Did you see how popular the meet-and-greets were before DoN?
> 
> Just because they don't attract live sport level ad revenues, doesn't mean their 18-49 audience is irrelevant and all on the poverty line. The three main wrestling shows are all in primetime for a reason. All would be axed in favor of cheaper programming if their 18-49s were worthless.
> 
> Pro wrestling will never be as valuable as the Premier League, NBA or NFL, but it has it clearly has its appeal to networks all around the world. WWE has a huge global footprint and AEW is adding new TV deals across the globe regularly.


I use the census but also my own experiences in the wrestling business which is nearing 15 years now. Wrestling fans traditionally don't have a lot of money, yes there are some who are wealthy I'm not saying they all don't have money but from my experience the census backs up how it is in Australia.

Lets face facts, we love wrestling but wrestling isn't something wealthy communities attend. As a matter of fact I know of a promoter who runs wrestling shows in a wealthy affluent area and his last show had a legitimate 21 people in the crowd, they don't want it and they don't like it. Wrestling draws the best in lower middle class to middle class areas.

Wrestling tickets have always been cheap, the merchandise has always been cheap and in my own personal experience the fans always complain if prices go up even if you're giving them more value. "What? The price went up when you've booked 10 former WWE stars and a New Japan guy? Why?!"


----------



## 3venflow

9,504 users took the Reddit census last year. 35.2% of them (3,345) said they watch Dynamite live/same day, with 26.5% (886) watching it live/legally through their TV provider. Of that 886, 58.8% (521) were American. So that's 521 of those who come into America's 18-49 demographic.

So how on earth is that a credible sample size of American viewers of pro wrestling/AEW that are watching Dynamite and contributing to that coveted 18-49 demographic? How many of the 14,000 at the Forum the other week or 14,000 at Double or Nothing contributed to that census?

AEW just did its first ever $1m gate by clearly putting up their ticket prices for Double or Nothing (since it had less fans than Grand Slam which was just short of $1m). Forbidden Door has also sold $1m worth of tickets. So fans clearly have money to pay extra for tickets and WWE makes major dollars through live gates with some huge ticket prices at times.

Again, I would never argue that pro wrestling attracts the big ads like the top sports do. They will never be prioritized over those. But on the other hand, they sit on a tier somewhere in the area below that and they're not exactly the National Knitting Contest. Or else why doesn't TBS just throw the BBT on in primetime instead of giving Dynamite the better timeslot? It typically has more viewers after all. WWE's viewership has tumbled by the year for many a year, but their % share of the 18-49 remains comparatively strong to the other shows on cable and network.


----------



## Businessman

Warner Brother Discovery says 50+ are wealthiest and the biggest consumers (over half) in America so it's possible David Zaslav sees 50+ as the new "key demo"

Here's evidence









Warner Bros. Discovery Spotlights Portfolio of Sports, News, Lifestyle and Premium Entertainment in First Upfront Presentation as Combined Company


Warner Bros. Discovery, a premier global media and entertainment company, offers audiences the world's most differentiated and complete portfolio of content, brands and franchises across television, film, streaming and gaming. The new company combines WarnerMedia's premium entertainment, sports...



wbd.com


----------



## ElTerrible

Businessman said:


> Warner Brother Discovery says 50+ are wealthiest and the biggest consumers (over half) in America so it's possible David Zaslav sees 50+ as the new "key demo"
> 
> Here's evidence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Warner Bros. Discovery Spotlights Portfolio of Sports, News, Lifestyle and Premium Entertainment in First Upfront Presentation as Combined Company
> 
> 
> Warner Bros. Discovery, a premier global media and entertainment company, offers audiences the world's most differentiated and complete portfolio of content, brands and franchises across television, film, streaming and gaming. The new company combines WarnerMedia's premium entertainment, sports...
> 
> 
> 
> wbd.com


No shit. Genius at work. 50 year olds make more money than highschoolers or college students. 50 year olds also have life long established habits they ain´t changing anymore. 

What´s more likely. 

Grandma: I need to get this new iphone.
Grandson: Grandma can you buy me the new iphone.


----------



## Prosper

Any word on Double or Nothing 2022 buy rates yet?


----------



## Aedubya

.94 guess for dynamite


----------



## Businessman

ElTerrible said:


> No shit. Genius at work. 50 year olds make more money than highschoolers or college students. 50 year olds also have life long established habits they ain´t changing anymore.
> 
> What´s more likely.
> 
> Grandma: I need to get this new iphone.
> Grandson: Grandma can you buy me the new iphone.


The point the geniuses at Discovery are making is that you want to advertise to the biggest spenders, which are 50+ and someone mentioned that WWE gets huge TV deals because they draw good in the 18-49 demo however they draw even better in the 50+ demo which could be a huge reason for their big TV deals

Yes AEW does good in 18-49 (still less than WWE) but they are rather awful in the 50+ demo, which could mean they won’t get the type of TV deal from Discovery that they were hoping for

Also let’s remember that everyone that helped get AEW on TNT and TBS is now gone from the company

A year from now it’s going to be very interesting


----------



## Chip Chipperson

ElTerrible said:


> No shit. Genius at work. 50 year olds make more money than highschoolers or college students. 50 year olds also have life long established habits they ain´t changing anymore.
> 
> What´s more likely.
> 
> Grandma: I need to get this new iphone.
> Grandson: Grandma can you buy me the new iphone.


I dunno man I think you'll find many older people embrace technology now. Before my grandmother passed away last year she had 2 iPads and loved them, she was 93 years old.

I'm not saying they're beating out the youth when it comes to the latest trends just simply saying that grandma and grandpa might enjoy an iPhone or iPad also.



Businessman said:


> The point the geniuses at Discovery are making is that you want to advertise to the biggest spenders, which are 50+ and someone mentioned that WWE gets huge TV deals because they draw good in the 18-49 demo however they draw even better in the 50+ demo which could be a huge reason for their big TV deals
> 
> Yes AEW does good in 18-49 (still less than WWE) but they are rather awful in the 50+ demo, which could mean they won’t get the type of TV deal from Discovery that they were hoping for
> 
> Also let’s remember that everyone that helped get AEW on TNT and TBS is now gone from the company
> 
> A year from now it’s going to be very interesting


Yeah, WWE gets the big bucks because they do well catering to everyone.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 761,000
18-49: 0.28

Awful on both fronts. Curious to see where they rank with that and whether something above it ate everything up or if a bunch of shows beat Dynamite.


----------



## 3venflow

Here's the Nielsen rankings and somehow they finished 2nd with that 0.28.










Stanley Cup won the night on all TV, but their numbers were well below the NBA playoffs, against which AEW did decent numbers, so I'm not sure what happened on U.S. TV last night.


----------



## Buhalovski

I think this may be the first and last Forbidden door lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

HOLY SHIT.


----------



## TD Stinger

761k is the lowest they've done in a while but still #2 for the night even with a .28. So yeah, I guess that's still fine.

Similar to Wednesday Night War numbers.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TD Stinger said:


> 761k is the lowest they've done in a while but still #2 for the night even with a .28. So yeah, I guess that's still fine.
> 
> Similar to Wednesday Night War numbers.


728k now passes for "fine"?

What would trouble you? 300k?


----------



## Prosper

Yeah that's bad. Surprised it dropped to that extent. People may have been disappointed with CM Punk having to drop the title, I know I was.

Oh well, they'll be back up.


----------



## GarpTheFist

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 761,000
> 18-49: 0.28
> 
> Awful on both fronts. Curious to see where they rank with that and whether something above it ate everything up or if a bunch of shows beat Dynamite.


What even?? Did that awful show last week turn away SO MANY people?? That's like Wednesday night war numbers but unopposed


----------



## Not Lying

Terrible.
AEW should book a match between 2 of the BH housewives and get that female demo.


----------



## RainmakerV2

It's clear no one cares about NJPW. And I like NJPW.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Awful number. The shows have been wretched lately from a booking perspective. Good wrestling can only cover for so much similar to Nitro in the later years.


----------



## Joe Gill

Fans knew in advance there would be no Punk, no MJF... bunch of NJPW crap that only a small minority of fans care about. Not surprised at all.


----------



## GarpTheFist

RainmakerV2 said:


> It's clear no one cares about NJPW. And I like NJPW.


Hmm that might explain the horrible number. Do you reckon the bad pr from the hardy situation turned some people off?


----------



## RainmakerV2

GarpTheFist said:


> Hmm that might explain the horrible number. Do you reckon the bad pr from the hardy situation turned some people off?



I mean originally people were excited for the crossover to see Okada, Naito, Ibushi, hiromu, etc, and they've gotten none of those guys.


----------



## GarpTheFist

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 761,000
> 18-49: 0.28
> 
> Awful on both fronts. Curious to see where they rank with that and whether something above it ate everything up or if a bunch of shows beat Dynamite.


Do you remember last week's numbers? How many did they lose?


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

NXT 2.0 is catching up 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Forbidden Door should've always been an after thought instead of the forefront of the TV show. Kind of like when WWE and WCW used to do these deals with NJPW, you'd never see them dedicating large chunks of their TV show to it rather just a segment or two.

But as I said in the weary Winter of 2020, Tony Khan just doesn't know what he's doing...


----------



## D Z

Time for booking changes.


----------



## Aedubya

That's not good at all 
Wtf is all that about?


----------



## Sad Panda

Oofa , rough number.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Also people know this is a one off so there's probably people just waiting for FD to be over who aren't interested in NJPW.


----------



## GarpTheFist

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> NXT 2.0 is catching up
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Its already beating rampage consistently, you might not be wrong lol


----------



## Whoanma

Last week’s was shite, that could explain last night’s number.


----------



## Joe Gill

RainmakerV2 said:


> I mean originally people were excited for the crossover to see Okada, Naito, Ibushi, hiromu, etc, and they've gotten none of those guys.


by people do you mean about 200k super hardcore fans in america that follow njpw? the majority of aew fans right now are scratching their heads wondering who the hell half these guys are. There is a reason wwe never did major crossovers with njpw on monday night raw. TK is oblivious to this... he is booking everything based on his hardcore fantasies while ignoring reality that the average aew doesnt give a shit


----------



## Geert Wilders

OOOOOF


but apparently everyone knows about NJPW


lmfao


----------



## RainmakerV2

Joe Gill said:


> by people do you mean about 200k super hardcore fans in america that follow njpw? the majority of aew fans right now are scratching their heads wondering who the hell half these guys are. There is a reason wwe never did major crossovers with njpw on monday night raw. TK is oblivious to this... he is booking everything based on his hardcore fantasies while ignoring reality that the average aew doesnt give a shit



I mean yeah, but at least there would be some novelty to seeing those top guys. People have already seen Jay White. No one knows anything about the fucking United Empire and Aussie Open or El Desperado. It's pretty clear NJPW doesn't really give a fuck about this card and is just using AEW for some publicity.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Joe Gill said:


> by people do you mean about 200k super hardcore fans in america that follow njpw? the majority of aew fans right now are scratching their heads wondering who the hell half these guys are. There is a reason wwe never did major crossovers with njpw on monday night raw. TK is oblivious to this... he is booking everything based on his hardcore fantasies while ignoring reality that the average aew doesnt give a shit



Agreed. If he wants to do that, at least tell the audience just how good or special they are with interviews or video packages for all of them. Tell us the history they share with some of the aew roster.


----------



## Geert Wilders

I have said it before.

Don't tell me that fans will google these unknown guys.

THEY'LL JUST TUNE OUT

no excuse for last night's rating. the show is just shit full of these unknown international intruders.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Even still, you had a hair vs. Hair and a ladder match on this show. And Baker vs. Storm. Thats a horrific number all things considered.


----------



## D Z

We need the graphs too


----------



## Borko

Horrible. CM Punk, Bryan Danielson and MJF are all absent and we don't know when they are coming back. Not surprising at all. Three biggest stars in the company. Even though Khan has done his best to make Danielson an afterthought.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Borko said:


> Horrible. CM Punk, Bryan Danielson and MJF are all absent and we don't know when they are coming back. Not surprising at all. Three biggest stars in the company. Even though Khan has done his best to make Danielson an afterthought.


AEW were doing million before punk and bryan

they didnt draw any extra viewers

this is AEW simply not knowing their fanbase.

When this forbidden door stuff is over, AEW will probably return to milli.


----------



## Chan Hung

Joe Gill said:


> Fans knew in advance there would be no Punk, no MJF... bunch of NJPW crap that only a small minority of fans care about. Not surprised at all.


Same, not shocking. AEW's core base is about 700,000 on average. The additional 200k or so are casuals. This is an indicator that they are holding on to their core and showing a show like last week that includes mostly unknown talent from Japan, simply does not appeal to casuals. For whoever saw last weeks' program, you laid witness to what was undoubtably the worst, most boring show AEW has aired on a Wednesday. This caused people to tune out this week.

Ironically, i felt yesterday's show was solid and more enjoyable than lasts. So we shall see what happens next week.


----------



## .christopher.

As I said. The ratings last week were for MJF. People tuned in tor his story, got a shit show, and this is the result.

I can't believe people thought they'd bring in more viewers this week.


----------



## Chan Hung

Geert Wilders said:


> AEW were doing million before punk and bryan
> 
> they didnt draw any extra viewers
> 
> this is AEW simply not knowing their fanbase.
> 
> When this forbidden door stuff is over, AEW will probably return to milli.


Agreed. The forbidden door stuff, closes the door to the casuals and if anything will hurt the product in the long run. I've said many times, AEW is too young of a company, they need to focus on their own talent, give them the airtime! But nope, instead they sacrifice their own brand in exchange of confusing the public with a ton of belts, a ton of talent from outside that comes from another almost unknown organization in one week, leaves the next.

AEW alone already has a roster that is too bloated, hence why everyone is in a faction. To add to this confusion to the public, they insist on interacting with companies that most dont give two shits about, ultimately in the process they devalue their own brand.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Kenny as champ drew the best consistent numbers 👀

Anyway it'll be back up next week and the game will continue


----------



## RainmakerV2

Geert Wilders said:


> I have said it before.
> 
> Don't tell me that fans will google these unknown guys.
> 
> THEY'LL JUST TUNE OUT
> 
> no excuse for last night's rating. the show is just shit full of these unknown international intruders.




Tell me If this sounds familiar. 


_clears throat_


Well go watch WWE if you need shit spoonfed to you. Are people so fucking God damn lazy they can't go to YouTube and watch videos about these NJPW guys? FUCK.


200K tune out and the show does the lowest number in a year.



Well GOOD. FUCK those casuals anyway. Now only the REAL wrestling fans are fucking left. God damn I HATE THE NBA. Yes I'm writing another essay on how much I HATE THE NBA.


----------



## Chan Hung

Prosper said:


> Yeah that's bad. Surprised it dropped to that extent.


How come? It was more than obvious it would.

They featured their worst show last week. On top of that , AEW is promoting a company and talent that less than 200 thousand have heard of or care about. It makes sense people are tuning out until the focus is actually on AEW.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Tony, if you're reading the board, message me. You need a creative team. Anyone who knows about writing will tell you honestly, they don't want to do this alone themselves-- any writer is going to know that you need a team. You need multiple voices.

WhoJPW is the darling that needs to be cut.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAh


----------



## .christopher.

Chan Hung said:


> How come? It was more than obvious it would.
> 
> They featured their worst show last week. On top of that , AEW is promoting a company and talent that less than 200 thousand have heard of or care about. It makes sense people are tuning out until the focus is actually on AEW.


i can't believe some don't get this


----------



## ProWresBlog

I figured they would do better without the NBA, but the build to Forbidden Door has been a disaster.

They have done everything wrong. They've debuted people with no explanation. They've debuted a whole bunch of people at the same time to add to the confusion. And they've done absolutely stupid stuff like having Will Osperay lose in his debut.

People just have to understand that the average person has no clue about who any of these people are and will not care unless it is explained to them well.


----------



## KrysRaw1

What an awful abismal rating. Laughable. They deserved it this week. Let's be honest, NO one gives a fuck about new japan. Keep that shit off TNT please. 👌Thats more for YouTube.. We barely know know 1/2 of AEWs own roster and they expect to get good ratings on talent from Japan who can't speak clear english to understand as it is 😥


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

Whoanma said:


> Last week’s was shite, that could explain last night’s number.


Or it could be the fact that AEW is killing off the casuals. It seems like nobody cares about acts like Adam Cole, Jay White, etc...Osepray is cool but they definitely need booking changes it is quite obvious the fans don't care about the forbidden door stuff


----------



## KrysRaw1

.christopher. said:


> As I said. The ratings last week were for MJF. People tuned in tor his story, got a shit show, and this is the result.
> 
> I can't believe people thought they'd bring in more viewers this week.


they turned off people 👎


----------



## Geeee

I'd say ratings are usually reactionary and last week's show was bad


----------



## Geeee

It's really surprising to me that this number was still #2 on cable. WTF happened to all of cable? There was nothing above 0.3


----------



## RainmakerV2

ProWresBlog said:


> I figured they would do better without the NBA, but the build to Forbidden Door has been a disaster.
> 
> They have done everything wrong. They've debuted people with no explanation. They've debuted a whole bunch of people at the same time to add to the confusion. And they've done absolutely stupid stuff like having Will Osperay lose in his debut.
> 
> People just have to understand that the average person has no clue about who any of these people are and will not care unless it is explained to them well.



Then you're obviously just a stupid fan who needs everything spoonfed to you from Vince. Fucking casual.


----------



## TD Stinger




----------



## Randy Lahey

0.28 is a very bad number. But even the over 50+ was a very low 0.29. Old people will not watch AEW.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Yeesh. Ospreay is a great talent, but he got thrown on TV outta nowhere and lost his debut match on the B show. It ain't surprising.


----------



## 3venflow

It's New Japan's fault but all except one of the advertised matches were for completely in-house feuds? And if NewJa is to blame this week, is NewJa getting the credit for last couple of week's of higher than before ratings?

Seems like the easy go-to excuse to blame New Japan and Forbidden Door when those feuds are taking up less space on Dynamite than the normal in-house affairs. The hair vs. hair and ladder match were the main things on the marquee.


----------



## Randy Lahey

TD Stinger said:


>


That is a really bizarre chart. Why would the overrun have 100,000 more people decide to tune in?


----------



## DammitChrist

Lenny Leonard said:


> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAh


The fact that you're continuously rooting for an alternative wrestling promotion that isn't WWE to fail (even though they consistently deliver a better wrestling product than 90% of their shows) is just sad.


----------



## Geeee

TD Stinger said:


>


Looking at this graph, it seems like Will Ospreay vs Dax slowly brought the viewers back and then the main event really lost them. I suppose you could blame Jeff Hardy for that?


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

3venflow said:


> It's New Japan's fault but all except one of the advertised matches were for completely in-house feuds? And if NewJa is to blame this week, is NewJa getting the credit for last couple of week's of higher than before ratings?
> 
> Seems like the easy go-to excuse to blame New Japan and Forbidden Door when those feuds are taking up less space on Dynamite than the normal in-house affairs.


No it's Tony's booking.

He needs a December 2019 wakeup call in all honesty. I think he needs help too. Every writer has a shelf life.

These shows feel disjointed and senseless....to me.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*WORST VIEWERSHIP ALL TIME IN THE NORMAL TIME SLOT 🤣🤣🤣🤣*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537529259551498241


----------



## kuja killer

I say they deserved this rating this week... they've defintely lost me as a viewer personally. I was seriously 100% excited and finally going to start watching AEW every week once CM punk won the belt ...cause i was most interested in him....

Then he goes and pulls that stupid "jump into the crowd" stunt to injure himself...and that absoultely just ruined it ALL for me after his announcement that he's now out for X number of months... 

I love CM punk but god damn man... that killed it all. I also loved the MJF promo...but after these 2 guys are now gone for the forseeable future...i just dont care anymore.


----------



## Martyn

It seems like the whole cable was down on that day judging by ratings of other programs. Either way, they were #2, so thats a good number.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Geeee said:


> Looking at this graph, it seems like Will Ospreay vs Dax slowly brought the viewers back and then the main event really lost them. I suppose you could blame Jeff Hardy for that?


The jump in Q4 of hour 1 is probably from people watching hockey who flipped over at the 1st period intermission


----------



## DammitChrist

It's funny because this negative anomaly is still somehow higher than last year's viewership


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> It's New Japan's fault but all except one of the advertised matches were for completely in-house feuds? And if NewJa is to blame this week, is NewJa getting the credit for last couple of week's of higher than before ratings?
> 
> Seems like the easy go-to excuse to blame New Japan and Forbidden Door when those feuds are taking up less space on Dynamite than the normal in-house affairs. The hair vs. hair and ladder match were the main things on the marquee.



This is the first time Ospreay has been advertised. Also everyone knew White would be there after winning the belt. Also the first time Tanahashi was actually advertised.

That's why.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Nikkita Lyons and Mandy Rose > Will Ospreay and Tanahashi. We love to see it.















*


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

It is weird how Khan's largely brushed aside the pandemic era roster to feature guys they beat decisively.


----------



## DammitChrist

Will Ospreay's segment actually GAINED viewership as his match with Dax Harwood progressed all the way until the finish, and it easily beats anything that NXT 2.0 'draws' nowadays.

He was part of the highest rated quarterly segment for this week too with multiple other guys.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Eddie Kingston was all over the show, what did they expect.

Ratings poison.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Congrats to those who were happy for this rating I suppose.


----------



## ProjectGargano

That is shockingly low, but besides having good matches, there is barely any storyline going at this moment, and the fact that there are constantly appearing new people without explanation to casuals could cause some people to tune out. I like it because I know them from NJPW, but they are presenting them in a way that they think that everyone knows them, and that's not the case.


----------



## RLT1981

such a shame a great show got such a terible rating and When did people start giving a shit about hockey in the states? Hockey has never put a dent in wrestling ratings or anything for that matter oh well sucks but not going to let it ruin my day cause it was still a great show.


----------



## RLT1981

DammitChrist said:


> It's funny because this negative anomaly is still somehow higher than last year's viewership


let them bitch still don't change the fact it was a great show.


----------



## 3venflow

RainmakerV2 said:


> This is the first time Ospreay has been advertised. Also everyone knew White would be there after winning the belt. Also the first time Tanahashi was actually advertised.
> 
> That's why.


So we place all the blame on Ospreay vs. Dax and Tanahashi, but nothing on Jericho vs. Ortiz, the Bucks vs. Jurassics, Wardlow and anything else?

Have a look at those QHs and tell me where the most eye-catching drop was. Also, what did the highest QH feature? Tanahashi's two appearances have both done well above the average numbers on those shows.

Personally, I expect these numbers to be an outlier, but even if they're not, throwing all the blame at New Japan is laughable when five of the eight QHs were entirely AEW storylines.

If anything, Forbidden Door is getting less specific attention than the usual AEW PPV due to many of its guys being in Japan.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> Yeah that's bad. Surprised it dropped to that extent. People may have been disappointed with CM Punk having to drop the title, I know I was.
> 
> Oh well, they'll be back up.


More likely its the filler NJPW event. Not saying folk don't want it in the AEW core, but it's probably turned a few off for now.


----------



## RainmakerV2

I think Khan also miscalculated that the AEW hardcore fan base also watches and cares about NJPW. I think there's a good portion of AEW hardcores that just watch AEW and could not give a shit about NJPW or Impact. For example, if you're an AEW hardcore who's super into the Hangman Page story, I don't think they wanna see Jay White beat his ass and stand tall over him, and it may even turn them off.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hiroshi Tanahashi was seen by 1+ million viewers a couple of weeks ago, and he was part of the highest quarterly rated segment for this week too despite the weird overall number for the show.

American fans interested in the top NJPW stars (Tanahashi and Ospreay) confirmed


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

TD Stinger said:


>


*Jericho will take full credit for this when it's actually Moxley and Tanahashi. Everyone wanted him to fuck off.*


----------



## DammitChrist

3venflow said:


> So we place all the blame on Ospreay vs. Dax and Tanahashi, but nothing on Jericho vs. Ortiz, the Bucks vs. Jurassics, Wardlow and anything else?
> 
> Have a look at those QHs and tell me where the most eye-catching drop was. Also, what did the highest QH feature?
> 
> Personally, I expect these numbers to be an outlier, but even if they're not, throwing all the blame at New Japan is laughable when five of the eight QHs were entirely AEW storylines.
> 
> If anything, Forbidden Door is getting less specific attention than the usual AEW PPV due to many of its guys being in Japan.


I'd also like to point out too that Q7 is historically known to struggle the most throughout Dynamite's short history no matter who's in it; so that really doesn't take anything away from the headlining acts that were there this week.


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> So we place all the blame on Ospreay vs. Dax and Tanahashi, but nothing on Jericho vs. Ortiz, the Bucks vs. Jurassics, Wardlow and anything else?
> 
> Have a look at those QHs and tell me where the most eye-catching drop was. Also, what did the highest QH feature? Tanahashi's two appearances have both done well above the average numbers on those shows.
> 
> Personally, I expect these numbers to be an outlier, but even if they're not, throwing all the blame at New Japan is laughable when five of the eight QHs were entirely AEW storylines.
> 
> If anything, Forbidden Door is getting less specific attention than the usual AEW PPV due to many of its guys being in Japan.



Because if you advertise shit people don't care about, (and most AEW fans are smart and know the next two weeks are gonna be forbidden door build) people are much more likely to just DVR or pirate the show after and just watch what they're interested in.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I am giggling like a school girl at huge AEW fans who also love NJPW trying to now blame AEW for the ratings failure and not NJPW.

It's like trying to pick your favourite child.


----------



## Cosmo77

Imagine your a "casual" AEW watcher/viewer,you wouldnt know who,besides Osprey,Jay white, you wouldnt know/care who some of these NJPW westlers are 

I also blame NJPW,they didnt send their Stars casuals care about


----------



## Whoanma

TD Stinger said:


>


----------



## FrankieDs316

Holy Shit those ratings are bad.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

DammitChrist said:


> The fact that you're continuously rooting for an alternative wrestling promotion that isn't WWE to fail (even though they consistently deliver a better wrestling product than 90% of their shows) is just sad.


The fact that you think all of these vanilla midgets that AEW constantly put out there to wrestle 20 minute matches will bring in viewers or make good TV is sad. Straight wrestling does not draw whatsoever.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Realistically though, I kinda expect it to rebound decently. The weird part was the ratings dropping steadily from the get-go, and even the start was much lower than usual. The two big matches/segments to open the show didn't involve NJPW guys with the exception of the beatdown at the end of the Ortiz match still didn't do well. 

Show was mostly very good to me, that's what mostly concerns me anyway.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> It's New Japan's fault but all except one of the advertised matches were for completely in-house feuds? And if NewJa is to blame this week, is NewJa getting the credit for last couple of week's of higher than before ratings?
> 
> Seems like the easy go-to excuse to blame New Japan and Forbidden Door when those feuds are taking up less space on Dynamite than the normal in-house affairs. The hair vs. hair and ladder match were the main things on the marquee.


It's not that hard to see how NJPW could be at fault. The company is very clearly doing a filler PPV with a bunch of guys they aren't exactly doing the best job of introducing to fans who aren't in the know and "don't want to do the homework". Numbers likely stabilize upwards after the summer when they're building stories towards Double or Nothing that have real consequences.


----------



## 3venflow

RainmakerV2 said:


> Because if you advertise shit people don't care about, (and most AEW fans are smart and know the next two weeks are gonna be forbidden door build) people are much more likely to just DVR or pirate the show after and just watch what they're interested in.


Hair vs. hair and ladder matches should surely pique the interest of people under normal circumstances, but none of the blame is being attributed to those?

QH4 seemed to cause a significant spike with live viewers. That was the aftermath of Ospreay vs. Dax and the advertised face-to-face, also featuring the Jericho schmozz and Suzuki-gun appearance. That even outdrew Q1 which is quite often Dynamite's biggest QH (that or the main event anyway) due to the lead-in.

The main ratings nosedive was in hour two, when except for Jay White's brief appearance, it was entirely AEW vs. AEW stuff. This blame game on NJPW is a bit of bullshit. Last week, David f'n Finlay was on the show and did just fine.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

3venflow said:


> Hair vs. hair and ladder matches should surely pique the interest of people under normal circumstances, but none of the blame is being attributed to those?
> 
> QH4 seemed to cause a significant spike with live viewers. That was the aftermath of Ospreay vs. Dax and the advertised face-to-face, also featuring the Jericho schmozz and Suzuki-gun appearance. That even outdrew Q1 which is quite often Dynamite's biggest QH (that or the main event anyway) due to the lead-in.
> 
> The main ratings nosedive was in hour two, when except for Jay White's brief appearance, it was entirely AEW vs. AEW stuff. This blame game on NJPW is a bit of bullshit. Last week, David f'n Finlay was on the show and did just fine.


So...AEW ratings bad because of AEW? Because you guys don't usually say that, lol.

Was there a basketball game we can blame?


----------



## DammitChrist

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> The fact that you think all of these vanilla midgets that AEW constantly put out there to wrestle 20 minute matches will bring in viewers or make good TV is sad. Straight wrestling does not draw whatsoever.


Wait, what? 😂

You were just hyped last night about Dax Harwood vs Will Ospreay delivering an awesome match (which consists of 2 smaller guys), but now it's suddenly 'not' good TV?

Anyway, you're wrong because Forbidden Door is already pretty much sold out already; which just further proves that's workrate/wrestling *does* draw.


----------



## GarpTheFist

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> The fact that you think all of these vanilla midgets that AEW constantly put out there to wrestle 20 minute matches will bring in viewers or make good TV is sad. Straight wrestling does not draw whatsoever.



"Pure wrestling draws" is just a propaganda created by marks to justify their own enjoyment of it. It has never ever drawn, the two biggest era's of wrestling had no actual wrestling in it for the most past. Stars, characters and storylines are what draws casuals to wrestling. But TK doesn't get that because in the words of MJF himself, He's a F'N mark!


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> Hair vs. hair and ladder matches should surely pique the interest of people under normal circumstances, but none of the blame is being attributed to those?
> 
> QH4 seemed to cause a significant spike with live viewers. That was the aftermath of Ospreay vs. Dax and the advertised face-to-face, also featuring the Jericho schmozz and Suzuki-gun appearance. That even outdrew Q1 which is quite often Dynamite's biggest QH (that or the main event anyway) due to the lead-in.
> 
> The main ratings nosedive was in hour two, when except for Jay White's brief appearance, it was entirely AEW vs. AEW stuff. This blame game on NJPW is a bit of bullshit. Last week, David f'n Finlay was on the show and did just fine.


So you're saying 3 of the biggest stars in the company (Jericho and the bucks) in big gimmick matches are to blame? What are you saying exactly?


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> More likely its the filler NJPW event. Not saying folk don't want it in the AEW core, but it's probably turned a few off for now.


I mean if that's the case it is what it is, its only a one month thing. But the last 2 weeks have had NJPW guys on the show and ratings were stronger so I wouldn't just blame NJPW as a whole. The show also had a ladder match main event, hair vs hair, and a women's match involving just AEW talent. Dax vs Ospreay is also something that AEW fans crave as far as in ring quality. Crowd was hot all night. Sometimes the card just doesn't click for some people. Ospreay was the only NJPW guy in a match this week and everything else involving NJPW were just short segments, one of which involved Jericho and Moxley who are both proven draws. Most of the show is still AEW based so the nosedive this week is weird. Last night's show had no issues except the Wardlow mess. It was more or less what has given AEW higher ratings in the past. I'm chalking it up to an anomaly personally.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Good wrestling draws when it has a reason. For example, Chris Benoit and Kurt Angle had a feud going on about 20 years ago about who was the better mat technician, they feuded over it, they yelled and screamed at one another about it, they had personal beef about it and then they went into the ring and had a great technical match that the people were invested in.

Good wrestling just for good wrestling sake is fine but AEW often has it overstay its welcome. We don't need 4 10+ minute matches a week.


----------



## Prosper

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> The fact that you think all of these vanilla midgets that AEW constantly put out there to wrestle 20 minute matches will bring in viewers or make good TV is sad. Straight wrestling does not draw whatsoever.


Stop being a hypocrite bro, you were all over Ospreay last night you made a whole thread about it.


----------



## RapShepard

Delete


----------



## Geert Wilders

TD Stinger said:


>


Taking the title off non draw Jurassic express was absolutely the right idea.


----------



## 3venflow

RainmakerV2 said:


> So you're saying 3 of the biggest stars in the company (Jericho and the bucks) in big gimmick matches are to blame? What are you saying exactly?


No, I'm saying that if they didn't draw the usual numbers despite being in the two traditionally highest rated QHs (1 and 8 - also the most convenient to tune into to and come back for), then why is the comparatively brief New Japan presence to blame (especially when a quarter hour loaded with it was the highest on the show?).

My theory is that it's more of an outlier than anyone or anything specifically being to blame because the number is such an anomaly compared to usual. Like when RAW dropped to 1.5m recently (in between shows with viewerships of 1.73m and 1.87m). Look at the TV ratings, cable and network, and nothing seemed to do very well. Even the Stanley Cup didn't do anywhere near NBA numbers.

So if the numbers go up again next week, what happens to this narrative of it being all on NJPW? And again, why didn't the ratings drop last week or the week before on the road to Forbidden Door? It just all seems very convenient to blame NJPW, especially as the same complainants wouldn't have given an ounce of credit to them in previous weeks.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> I am giggling like a school girl at huge AEW fans who also love NJPW trying to now blame AEW for the ratings failure and not NJPW.
> 
> It's like trying to pick your favourite child.


I'm giggling at how you happen to be in the thread being loud AF this week but nowhere to be found when they are pulling solid numbers. 

It's like trying to pick your favorite week to gloat.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Wait, what?
> 
> You were just hyped last night about Dax Harwood vs Will Ospreay delivering an awesome match (which consists of 2 smaller guys), but now it's suddenly 'not' good TV?
> 
> Anyway, you're wrong because Forbidden Door is already pretty much sold out already; which just further proves that's workrate/wrestling *does* draw.


You can like something that's not a draw and still understand why it's not killing it in a positive way TV wise. 




Prosper said:


> I mean if that's the case it is what it is, its only a one month thing. But the last 2 weeks have had NJPW guys on the show and ratings were stronger so I wouldn't just blame NJPW as a whole. The show also had a ladder match main event, hair vs hair, and a women's match involving just AEW talent. Dax vs Ospreay is also something that AEW fans crave as far as in ring quality. Crowd was hot all night. Sometimes the card just doesn't click for some people. Ospreay was the only NJPW guy in a match this week and everything else involving NJPW were just short segments, one of which involved Jericho and Moxley who are both proven draws. Most of the show is still AEW based so the nosedive this week is weird. Last night's show had no issues except the Wardlow mess. It was more or less what has given AEW higher ratings in the past. I'm chalking it up to an anomaly personally.


But as folk always acknowledge pro, hater, or in the middle ratings don't drastically change over night. Going into the 3rd week of filler build for crossover PPV with bad build, folk who aren't diehards know they're not building anything long-term serious so it's less incentive to watch. 

It's nice to not want to blame NJPW. But the most likely answer is their presence is a net negative TV wise, in this presentation.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Prosper said:


> I'm giggling at how you happen to be in the thread being loud AF this week but nowhere to be found when they are pulling solid numbers.
> 
> It's like trying to pick your favorite week to gloat.


Well the last time they pulled a solid number was March 23rd so kudos to AEW for pulling that good number 3 months ago.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chip Chipperson said:


> I am giggling like a school girl at huge AEW fans who also love NJPW trying to now blame AEW for the ratings failure and not NJPW.
> 
> It's like trying to pick your favourite child.


*You peeped the same people defending the Bucks when I shit on them for tanking ratings are throwing them under the bus today? 😂*


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> No, I'm saying that if they didn't draw the usual numbers despite being in the two traditionally highest rated QHs (1 and 8 - also the most convenient to tune into to and come back for), then why is the comparatively brief New Japan presence to blame (especially when a quarter hour loaded with it was the highest on the show?).
> 
> My theory is that it's more of an outlier than anyone or anything specifically being to blame because the number is such an anomaly compared to usual. Like when RAW dropped to 1.5m recently (in between shows with viewerships of 1.73m and 1.87m). Look at the TV ratings, cable and network, and nothing seemed to do very well. Even the Stanley Cup didn't do anywhere near NBA numbers.
> 
> So if the numbers go up again next week, what happens to this narrative of it being all on NJPW? And again, why didn't the ratings drop last week or the week before on the road to Forbidden Door? It just all seems very convenient to blame NJPW, especially as the same complainants wouldn't have given an ounce of credit to them in previous weeks.



Because people are having trouble grasping how a themed show with the three of the biggest stars you have in gimmick matches, and hell, even Wardlow 20 vs. 1 and Baker vs. Storm could do such a number. So they obviously are pivoting to the outlier, NJPW. Maybe it is some huge anomaly and they'll be back to nearly 1 mil next week. I guess we will see.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> But as folk always acknowledge pro, hater, or in the middle ratings don't drastically change over night. Going into the 3rd week of filler build for crossover PPV with bad build, folk who aren't diehards know they're not building anything long-term serious so it's less incentive to watch.
> 
> It's nice to not want to blame NJPW. But the most likely answer is there presence is a net negative TV wise, in this presentation.


Less incentive for some to watch later and not live I can see, but we have had nosedives like this in the past for consistently good programming too. Shows that have been praised have pulled low ratings. I don't think it's so black and white to say NJPW is 100% the issue. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> Well the last time they pulled a solid number was March 23rd so kudos to AEW for pulling that good number 3 months ago.


They have been over 925K for the past like 5 weeks my guy. Not touching a milli doesn't equate to "bad" and also doesn't equate to "incredible", but most definitely good or solid.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RainmakerV2 said:


> Maybe it is some huge anomaly and they'll be back to nearly 1 mil next week. I guess we will see.


----------



## DammitChrist

3venflow said:


> No, I'm saying that if they didn't draw the usual numbers despite being in the two traditionally highest rated QHs (1 and 8 - also the most convenient to tune into to and come back for), then why is the comparatively brief New Japan presence to blame (especially when a quarter hour loaded with it was the highest on the show?).
> 
> My theory is that it's more of an outlier than anyone or anything specifically being to blame because the number is such an anomaly compared to usual. Like when RAW dropped to 1.5m recently (in between shows with viewerships of 1.73m and 1.87m). Look at the TV ratings, cable and network, and nothing seemed to do very well. Even the Stanley Cup didn't do anywhere near NBA numbers.
> 
> So if the numbers go up again next week, what happens to this narrative of it being all on NJPW? And again, why didn't the ratings drop last week or the week before on the road to Forbidden Door? *It just all seems very convenient to blame NJPW, especially as the same complainants wouldn't have given an ounce of credit to them in previous weeks.*


Yea, that explains the case here for Will Ospreay and Hiroshi Tanahashi (who was seen by 1+ million viewers a couple of weeks ago too) last night.

Edit:

Anyway, I'm going to quit postponing and check out today's NXT UK episode now. Hopefully, that show cheers me up considering that bummer of a dip for this week's anomaly.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Prosper said:


> They have been over 925K for the past like 5 weeks my guy. Not touching a milli doesn't equate to "bad" and also doesn't equate to "incredible", but most definitely good or solid.


They've previously had as high as 1.5 million. Losing over half a million of those people and settling into just under a million is not good or solid.

Good or solid would probably be 1.1 - 1.2 million if we were being entirely honest.


----------



## Geert Wilders

No scissor me daddio is why ratings were in rhe toilet this week

MJF, shoot or work, will probably be feeling vindicated tonight.


----------



## RLT1981

if the new japan stuff is turning away a few casuals from the tv then no big deal they be back after the ppv.

Aslong as the diehards buy the ppv and it does a great buy rate then this was a success.

I know I'm enjoying it and I was the biggest critic going into this.


----------



## D Z

Based Tanahashi drawing the dimes.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RLT1981 said:


> if the new japan stuff is turning away a few casuals from the tv then no big deal they be back after the ppv.
> 
> Aslong as the diehards buy the ppv and it does a great buy rate then this was a success.


Err I'm not sure how that's how it goes, chief. 

Maybe they won't come back after the PPV. Why would they? I'm sure we'll see more of this cringey NJPW stuff throughout AEW's existence.

Focusing on the die hards is a good way to kill your business.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I'm actually glad that Okada won't be involved in this shit show.*


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> They've previously had as high as 1.5 million. Losing over half a million of those people and settling into just under a million is not good or solid.
> 
> Good or solid would probably be 1.1 - 1.2 million if we were being entirely honest.


Losing viewers after their debut show? Jesus, I'm not getting into this debate again.


----------



## 3venflow

RainmakerV2 said:


> Because people are having trouble grasping how a themed show with the three of the biggest stars you have in gimmick matches, and hell, even Wardlow 20 vs. 1 and Baker vs. Storm could do such a number. So they obviously are pivoting to the outlier, NJPW. Maybe it is some huge anomaly and they'll be back to nearly 1 mil next week. I guess we will see.


I'd be more inclined to agree if the most NJPW dominant QH hadn't blown away everything else on the show. So it just doesn't make sense to me, when more of the marquee was devoted to in-house programs than the NJPW stuff. Even Q1 was well below usual when it has the BTT lead-in.

There is also this from Thurston that could be very relevant: "It was second lowest Wednesday for cable TV viewership going back six years (and probably decades) with the exception of July 4, 2018."


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Prosper said:


> Losing viewers after their debut show? Jesus, I'm not getting into this debate again.


They did 1.3 million less than 12 months ago.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

The sooner this "Forbidden Door" shit is over with, the sooner AEW can actually concentrate on their own talent for the entire two hours. Who knows, maybe they can even develop a good product around them.


Or just continue to depend on the next "BIG ANNOUNCEMENT!!!!!"


----------



## Prosper

RLT1981 said:


> if the new japan stuff is turning away a few casuals from the tv then no big deal they be back after the ppv.
> 
> Aslong as the diehards buy the ppv and it does a great buy rate then this was a success.
> 
> I know I'm enjoying it and I was the biggest critic going into this.


It's already been a success with the gate buys, so I mean we're arguing semantics at the end of the day.


----------



## D Z

Hire russo


----------



## Danielallen1410

Said it for ages, im desperate for AEW to succeed because I hate the way wwe is and I miss loving a wrestling show.

But overall they have only one thing good, the wrestling.

The storylines are boring, they don’t ever leave a cliffhanger.

They cater too much to the internet, they should have capitalised on cm punks arrival by putting the title on him straight away like wcw did hogan, but no they had to cater to the internet fans who would have moaned that jungle boy deserved it more for his workrate.

I haven’t watched a full episode for months, I can catch everything I want to see on YouTube.

They’ve even got lazy with their presentation, they didn’t have any sort of special stage for double or nothing.

Its gone to shit.


----------



## redban

The low rating might be a reaction to the poor show they gave last week?

Or maybe NJPW … as someone who doesn’t know much about NJPW, I have some trouble following all these unknown wrestlers and storylines


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> They did 1.3 million less than 12 months ago.


Then they went on to hit over a milli probably 5-6 times this year, with most of the other weeks being right under it. And like always they come down and go back up, then down and back up again, and off in this repetitive cycle we go with people shitting on the company when they hit their lows and being silent as the grave when they hit their highs. People like @HookedOnThuganomics AKA MoxAsylum can thoroughly enjoy a show and change his mind when the ratings come out. It's stupid.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> Less incentive for some to watch later and not live I can see, but we have had nosedives like this in the past for consistently good programming too. Shows that have been praised have pulled low ratings. I don't think it's so black and white to say NJPW is 100% the issue.


Sure maybe not 100% to blame, but they're probably the biggest factor


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hey guys, what is…






nevermind…


----------



## RLT1981

Prosper said:


> It's already been a success with the gate buys, so I mean we're arguing semantics at the end of the day.


good point.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Hey guys, what is…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nevermind…


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Sure maybe not 100% to blame, but they're probably the biggest factor


I just don't see it. I could be wrong though. I guess we can form more of a conclusion in comparing next week's ratings with post-Forbidden Door.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Prosper said:


> It's already been a success with the gate buys, so I mean we're arguing semantics at the end of the day.


Didn't we learn a few days back that scalpers buy up all the tickets and resell them? @The Legit Lioness, I think you were involved in this convo?



Prosper said:


> Then they went on to hit over a milli probably 5-6 times this year, with most of the other weeks being right under it. And like always they come down and go back up, then down and back up again, and off in this repetitive cycle we go with people shitting on the company when they hit their lows and being silent as the grave when they hit their highs. People like @HookedOnThuganomics AKA MoxAsylum can thoroughly enjoy a show and change his mind when the ratings come out. It's stupid.


Yeah my point is the million isn't good anymore, there is no ratings growth.


----------



## redban

WE ALL KNOW WHY PEOPLE CHANGED THE CHANNEL!!!!!!


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Didn't we learn a few days back that scalpers buy up all the tickets and resell them? @The Legit Lioness, I think you were involved in this convo?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah my point is the million isn't good anymore, there is no ratings growth.


So now the original goal post isn't good anymore? So is good now consistently getting a 1.5+? Yeah let's just move the goalpost to the point where AEW will always be perceived as failing. 

There won't be any significant cable growth no matter how well the show is booked. All TV is on a decline outside of the obvious sports, because that shit is too expensive. I would bet money that less than 7% of the users here even have a cable box or watch on cable.

Even in the case of scalpers, the whole goal is to sell them at inflated prices when demand is higher closer to the show, or there is no point to scalping. I'm certain that every seat will be full on that night. There are always reports of the queues being full on pre-sells, so scalpers snagging up all the tix is more of an industry issue not an "AEW can't sell out" issue. A lot of the time people can't even get the tix if they wanted to, until they are re-sold.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Imagine if the NBA finals was on, how low it'd have gone. Terrible numbers.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Prosper said:


> It's already been a success with the gate buys, so I mean we're arguing semantics at the end of the day.


It was a huge box office success because I bet you people were expecting Okada, Naito, Hiromu, Ibushi, etc in big spots. Now none of them are on the show as of this week..(thought I don't believe Cole when he says Okada isn't there necessarily), and I bet no one bought tickets thinking Orange Cassidy was gonna be in one of the main events.


----------



## The XL 2

The show is basically unwatchable without Punk and especially MJF, so this isn't surprising.


----------



## 3venflow

The boss seems happy enough anyway.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537557019653292037


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> It was a huge box office success because I bet you people were expecting Okada, Naito, Hiromu, Ibushi, etc in big spots. Now none of them are on the show as of this week..(thought I don't believe Cole when he says Okada isn't there necessarily), and I bet no one bought tickets thinking Orange Cassidy was gonna be in one of the main events.


Well people knew Ibushi had a falling out with NJPW, there were reports he was fired but I never followed up on that. I think he's done. AEW booking him would definitely sour the relationship. 

Naito I don't know what's going on there. 

Okada is expecting a baby so who knows if he can make it. I think he will. Would suck if his wife is expected to go into labor that week. Not for him but for us. They will probably do the coin drop at the PPV itself and just book him in a match, which I don't agree with but whaddya gonna do. 

OC is one of the biggest draws AEW has outside of the obvious Moxley's and Punk's, despite you and I not being fans.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

3venflow said:


> The boss seems happy enough anyway.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537557019653292037



Khan pulling out all the cope for this failure of a number. 🤣


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> I just don't see it. I could be wrong though. I guess we can form more of a conclusion in comparing next week's ratings with post-Forbidden Door.


True and we'll really see once next year's Forbidden Door happens


----------



## RainmakerV2

Prosper said:


> Well people knew Ibushi had a falling out with NJPW, there were reports he was fired but I never followed up on that. I think he's done. AEW booking him would definitely sour the relationship.
> 
> Naito I don't know what's going on there.
> 
> Okada is expecting a baby so who knows if he can make it. I think he will. Would suck if his wife is expected to go into labor that week. Not for him but for us. They will probably do the coin drop at the PPV itself and just book him in a match, which I don't agree with but whaddya gonna do.
> 
> OC is one of the biggest draws AEW has outside of the obvious Moxley's and Punk's, despite you and I not being fans.



I'm just saying if you told people before they started buying tickets that Naito, Hiromu, Ibushi, Shingo, wouldn't be there and Okada may or may not be there, I guarantee it doesn't sell out as fast.


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> I'm just saying if you told people before they started buying tickets that Naito, Hiromu, Ibushi, Shingo, wouldn't be there and Okada may or may not be there, I guarantee it doesn't sell out as fast.


You're probably right, this is expected to be a yearly thing though according to Tony Khan, so hopefully we see more of them in the future. People also expected Punk in a big match which is a blower. Just a bunch of things out of the fans/bookers control. 

I think the card looks pretty good despite not having Okada on there, but I could see how some would be disappointed.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Geert Wilders said:


> I have said it before.
> 
> Don't tell me that fans will google these unknown guys.
> 
> THEY'LL JUST TUNE OUT
> 
> no excuse for last night's rating. the show is just shit full of these unknown international intruders.


Very few average viewers want to do "homework" to follow the TV shows they watch.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Prosper said:


> You're probably right, this is expected to be a yearly thing though according to Tony Khan, so hopefully we see more of them in the future. People also expected Punk in a big match which is a blower. Just a bunch of things out of the fans/bookers control.
> 
> I think the card looks pretty good despite not having Okada on there, but I could see how some would be disappointed.



Yes but first impressions always matter. I get saving some of the dream matchups for future crossovers, but all those top NJPW guys missing the show isn't a good first look to hook people back next time.


----------



## DammitChrist

3venflow said:


> The boss seems happy enough anyway.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537557019653292037


Well, I guess there's not much reason to be down/gloomy about the ratings dip if he's happy with the numbers regardless then


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

RainmakerV2 said:


> Tell me If this sounds familiar.
> 
> 
> _clears throat_
> 
> 
> Well go watch WWE if you need shit spoonfed to you. Are people so fucking God damn lazy they can't go to YouTube and watch videos about these NJPW guys? FUCK.
> 
> 
> 200K tune out and the show does the lowest number in a year.
> 
> 
> 
> Well GOOD. FUCK those casuals anyway. Now only the REAL wrestling fans are fucking left. God damn I HATE THE NBA. Yes I'm writing another essay on how much I HATE THE NBA.


You can hate the NBA all you want but there wasn't an NBA game last night.

It's not that people are too lazy to look wrestlers up on YouTube it's that people average people don't typically want to do "homework" in order to get/care about the TV shows they watch.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> Well, I guess there's not much reason to be down/gloomy about the ratings dip if he's happy with the numbers regardless then



Yes wrestling promoters don't ever lie or no sell. You got it


----------



## RainmakerV2

MonkasaurusRex said:


> You can hate the NBA all you want but there wasn't an NBA game last night.
> 
> It's not that people are too lazy to look wrestlers up on YouTube it's that people average people don't typically want to do "homework" in order to get/care about the TV shows they watch.


I'm picking at a certain poster on here lol. I don't think these things.


----------



## the_hound




----------



## MonkasaurusRex

RainmakerV2 said:


> I'm picking at a certain poster on here lol. I don't think these things.


My bad, bro.

Anyway, for anyone making those kinds of excuses or comments the point remains the same.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

MonkasaurusRex said:


> You can hate the NBA all you want but there wasn't an NBA game last night.
> 
> It's not that people are too lazy to look wrestlers up on YouTube it's that people average people don't typically want to do "homework" in order to get/care about the TV shows they watch.




People went to sleep early last night in order to be well-rested enough to watch tonight's NBA game.


Damn NBA killing the ratings again!


----------



## Randy Lahey

Dynamite is a show geared towards Males 18-49. They dominate that demo and I’m good with that. Hope they don’t change the show due to low female ratings, or low over 50 ratings

The 50+ viewership is crazy low tho.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Prosper said:


> So now the original goal post isn't good anymore? So is good now consistently getting a 1.5+? Yeah let's just move the goalpost to the point where AEW will always be perceived as failing.
> 
> There won't be any significant cable growth no matter how well the show is booked. All TV is on a decline outside of the obvious sports, because that shit is too expensive. I would bet money that less than 7% of the users here even have a cable box or watch on cable.
> 
> Even in the case of scalpers, the whole goal is to sell them at inflated prices when demand is higher closer to the show, or there is no point to scalping. I'm certain that every seat will be full on that night. There are always reports of the queues being full on pre-sells, so scalpers snagging up all the tix is more of an industry issue not an "AEW can't sell out" issue. A lot of the time people can't even get the tix if they wanted to, until they are re-sold.


Good would be the 1.2 - 1.3 million mark as I previously said, the bottom should be a million people. Remember, this is a product that is spending millions of dollars weekly on star power alone.

Nothing is growing. AEW's Twitter is still under a million, guys like Sammy Guevara and Jungle Boy who are apparently the future of this company are competitive with ex WWE midcarders from a followers perspective and even YouTube isn't amazing anymore, the last million plus video they did was CM Punk leaving due to injury.

Most videos without a big name WWE star are under 300-400k. This is not a growing company.


----------



## Christopher Near

I think people overestimate how many care about new japan.

It reminds me back in 2019 when fans would complain about raw amd say they want triple h to take over yet would not watch nxt


----------



## Jay Trotter

It was just bad timing for them to start up this NJPW stuff, which will never appeal to the silent majority that makes up the bulk of Nielsen Ratings. I really hope they move away from it entirely to kickoff July cause the contract renewal is coming up sooner than you think. It may have worked better with the top guys around, but I had my fears about a big viewer drop during this crossover for AEW. 

Your hottest guy in MJF is out for story reasons. Must let this play out instead of rushing him back. Your second hottest guy in Wardlow has cooled considerably cause he caught fire with the best heel in the business. Now it will probably be a bunch of semi squash matches in his future, but it will lose it's luster without having a great villain to prop him up. 

Your two biggest stars in Punk and Danielson are out with injury, who like MJF can bring more to the table than "workrate". That pretty much leaves you with Moxley and Jericho as your star power. Your second best homegrown star in Darby was in a "blink and you missed it" for someone that's posted good numbers in the main event. Just another core guy on the roster that's been there from the start getting lost in the shuffle of a bloated roster with endless weekly debuts. 

While I still say that only a very loud yet very small minority know anything about NJPW, it would probably work better if it lined up with a Omega return. Not so much for these so called dream matches at the PPV, but just to have one of the faces of AEW back on TV would help right now. Ultimately, I hope Tony will get it through his head to stop this stuff with Impact and NJPW (that could barely beat an overnight infomercial in viewers) and start getting back to the AEW talent. Guys that have raised the PPV buyrates by a ton in the last full year. Guys that were here for their best ratings stretch last fall.


----------



## La Parka

The NJPW shit is too niche for even the most hardcore of fans by the looks of it.

Even I find myself fast forwarding through that shit and I watched Jericho and orange cassidy “wrestle” twice.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah..................HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


That is fucking garbage


----------



## One Shed

Can people see now that in most cases outside a pre-emption or big news item for the week, the ratings usually reflect the previous week's show?

Last week everyone was saying how the rating was great when the show was piss poor, but once again some tried to point out it would be the next week that suffered. And just as predicted, here we are


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah..................HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> 
> That is fucking garbage


Sure, let's root for an alternative wrestling promotion that consistently delivers a good wrestling product to fail; but yet continue to make excuses for a revamp that's truly *garbage* in quality in such hilarious irony (that's been outdrawn by the previous version due to *good *wrestling 

I genuinely can't wait until they inevitably go back to 1+ million viewers again soon where you'll predictably be silent.


----------



## The real Axel

Forbidden Door has flopped confirmed. Might be time for the Dubbalos to focus on their real Forbidden Door.


----------



## DammitChrist

The real Axel said:


> Forbidden Door has flopped confirmed. Might be time for the Dubbalos to focus on their real Forbidden Door.
> 
> View attachment 125418


Forbidden Door selling out in attendance already, and 2 top NJPW stars (in Hiroshi Tanahashi plus Will Ospreay) being featured in the highest quarterly rated segment last night says otherwise.

It's the opposite of a flop.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> Sure, let's root for an alternative wrestling promotion that consistently delivers a good wrestling product to fail; but yet continue to make excuses for a revamp that's truly *garbage* in quality in such hilarious irony (that's been outdrawn by the previous version due to *good *wrestling
> 
> I genuinely can't wait until they inevitably go back to 1+ million viewers again soon where you'll predictably be silent.


It's sad that people are happy with a million now. I remember a few years back people were predicting that AEW could be fighting it out with RAW or Smackdown now.


----------



## NathanMayberry

RainmakerV2 said:


> It's clear no one cares about NJPW. And I like NJPW.


You're clearly only saying this because you are a bot or an AEW hater.. remember the forbidden door sOlD ouT.. pay no attention to the tickets on the secondary market that are now going for even lower than last week.. AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door Tickets/




M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> NXT 2.0 is catching up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dynamite is closer to NXT 2.0 than it is to Raw.. Dynamite + Rampage won't even equal Raw's viewership this week..


Geert Wilders said:


> AEW were doing million before punk and bryan
> 
> they didnt draw any extra viewers
> 
> this is AEW simply not knowing their fanbase.
> 
> When this forbidden door stuff is over, AEW will probably return to milli.


Return implies that its somethng it regularly does.. Dynamite has never been able to consistently maintain a million viewers.


TD Stinger said:


>


There's something hilarious at Bald FTR and the Young Sucks being the biggest ratings vacuums on the show.. Best in the world my black ass.



Randy Lahey said:


> That is a really bizarre chart. Why would the overrun have 100,000 more people decide to tune in?


Maybe they thought the trash was on between 8 and 10 pm was over and they wanted to watch more Big Bang Theory reruns



DammitChrist said:


> Will Ospreay's segment actually GAINED viewership as his match with Dax Harwood progressed all the way until the finish, and it easily beats anything that NXT 2.0 'draws' nowadays.
> 
> He was part of the highest rated quarterly segment for this week too with multiple other guys.


Being the highest rated segment on the lowest rated show in over a year is pathetic. Stars bring people in, and lift the tide for everyone else. His advertised first televised match led to hundreds of thousands of people not watching, he's not a star. Just another Indy flipper that works in New Japan that Metlzer and his marks won't shut up about. 



DammitChrist said:


> Hiroshi Tanahashi was seen by 1+ million viewers a couple of weeks ago, and he was part of the highest quarterly rated segment for this week too despite the weird overall number for the show.
> 
> American fans interested in the top NJPW stars (Tanahashi and Ospreay) confirmed


Cope



Chip Chipperson said:


> I am giggling like a school girl at huge AEW fans who also love NJPW trying to now blame AEW for the ratings failure and not NJPW.
> 
> It's like trying to pick your favourite child.


Its been quite the site.. Ratings are in the gutter and you have AEW marks trying to convince us this is a good rating, it was a great show and a bunch of Japanese guys no one gives a fuck about are actually stars..



HookedOnThuganomics said:


> The fact that you think all of these vanilla midgets that AEW constantly put out there to wrestle 20 minute matches will bring in viewers or make good TV is sad. Straight wrestling does not draw whatsoever.


It's not even straight wrestling that's the issue. No one would be complaining if it was long straight wrestling matches between top guys people actually gave a fuck about or if there were actual reasons for the matches going that long aka an actual build. Instead we get long drawn out matches where literal no names go the distance with legit stars in matches that are happening for no reason.



Prosper said:


> Most of the show is still AEW based so the nosedive this week is weird.


it really isn't... but then again my face isn't close tiny's ass 



RainmakerV2 said:


> I'm just saying if you told people before they started buying tickets that Naito, Hiromu, Ibushi, Shingo, wouldn't be there and Okada may or may not be there, I guarantee it doesn't sell out as fast.


Yes it would. Tiny's bots will still buy tickets


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> You're clearly only saying this because you are a bot or an AEW hater.. remember the forbidden door sOlD ouT.. pay no attention to the tickets on the secondary market that are now going for even lower than last week.. AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door Tickets/
> 
> 
> 
> Dynamite is closer to NXT 2.0 than it is to Raw.. Dynamite + Rampage won't even equal Raw's viewership this week..
> 
> Return implies that its somethng it regularly does.. Dynamite has never been able to consistently maintain a million viewers.
> 
> There's something hilarious at Bald FTR and the Young Sucks being the biggest ratings vacuums on the show.. Best in the world my black ass.
> 
> 
> Maybe they thought the trash was on between 8 and 10 pm was over and they wanted to watch more Big Bang Theory reruns
> 
> 
> Being the highest rated segment on the lowest rated show in over a year is pathetic. Stars bring people in, and lift the tide for everyone else. His advertised first televised match led to hundreds of thousands of people not watching, he's not a star. Just another Indy flipper that works in New Japan that Metlzer and his marks won't shut up about.
> 
> 
> Cope
> 
> 
> Its been quite the site.. Ratings are in the gutter and you have AEW marks trying to convince us this is a good rating, it was a great show and a bunch of Japanese guys no one gives a fuck about are actually stars..
> 
> 
> It's not even straight wrestling that's the issue. No one would be complaining if it was long straight wrestling matches between top guys people actually gave a fuck about or if there were actual reasons for the matches going that long aka an actual build. Instead we get long drawn out matches where literal no names go the distance with legit stars in matches that are happening for no reason.
> 
> 
> it really isn't... but then again my face isn't close tiny's ass
> 
> 
> Yes it would. Tiny's bots will still buy tickets


This long inaccurate rant is hilarious when Forbidden Door is already sold out in attendance, when they clearly have a lot of good will from many wrestling fans due to the fact that they consistently deliver a good product on weekly basis, when they have a program where workrate guys like FTR plus the Young Bucks are over as hell with the audience (disproving this false claim about them being 'charisma vacuums'), when this week's negative anomaly is *still* up in viewership compared to last year's number (which something that you openly complained about last week regarding a moot point of yours that backfired), and when there's 2 top NJPW stars who are clearly capable of being part of the highest rated quarterly segment (which debunks this myth that 'nobody' cares about NJPW wrestlers).

Your hostility to the wrestling fanbase isn't necessary. They should continue what they're doing regardless since you're clearly rooting for them to fail in spite of their ongoing success 

FTR and the Young Bucks *are* among the best tag teams in the world btw


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Sure, let's root for an alternative wrestling promotion that consistently delivers a good wrestling product to fail; but yet continue to make excuses for a revamp that's truly *garbage* in quality in such hilarious irony (that's been outdrawn by the previous version due to *good *wrestling
> 
> I genuinely can't wait until they inevitably go back to 1+ million viewers again soon where you'll predictably be silent.


You really can't take a joke can you? And if you genuinely believe I want AEW to fail you're dumber than I expected.


----------



## PunkyChickMagnet

DammitChrist said:


> Sure, let's root for an alternative wrestling promotion that consistently delivers a good wrestling product to fail; but yet continue to make excuses for a revamp that's truly *garbage* in quality in such hilarious irony (that's been outdrawn by the previous version due to *good *wrestling
> 
> I genuinely can't wait until they inevitably go back to 1+ million viewers again soon where you'll predictably be silent.


The ratings are down, that is fact.

Less people watching, means that there is something wrong with their product to where it not only does not gain more viewers but loses its core audience.

By chastising and critizing AEW, it allows them to remove the negatives and continue to add or accentuate the positives.

Defending them, despite the ratings being down and there clearly being a problem, only enables them to further continue what they’re doing wrong and harm them.

So how can you claim to love AEW when you’re defending the bad?

It’s like with parenting, you can’t applaud everything your kid does, when they mess you, you have to discipline them so that they’re able to grow and learn.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

PunkyChickMagnet said:


> The ratings are down, that is fact.
> 
> Less people watching, means that there is something wrong with their product to where it not only does gain more viewers but loses its core audience.
> 
> By chastising and critizing AEW, it allows them to remove the negatives and continue to add or excentuate the positives.
> 
> *Defending them, despite the ratings being down and there clearly being a problem, only enables them to further continue what they’re doing wrong and harm them.
> 
> So how can you claim to love AEW when you’re defending the bad?*
> 
> It’s like with parenting, you can’t applaud everything your kid does, when they mess you, you have to discipline them so that they’re able to grow and learn.




^He's got a point ya know.


----------



## zkorejo

Why was cable/satellite overall down in viewership? Is something happening in US?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

zkorejo said:


> Why was cable/satellite overall down in viewership? Is something happening in US?



Nothing interesting on. Last Wednesday had the NBA finals, which had massive viewership. This week, they had NHL Finals which gets far less viewers. AEW apparently didn't grab the viewers.


----------



## JasmineAEW

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Nothing interesting on. Last Wednesday had the NBA finals, which had massive viewership. This week, they had NHL Finals which gets far less viewers. AEW apparently didn't grab the viewers.


I read Meltzer on Twitter today. AEW was _waaaaaaaayy_ down yesterday. But it apparently still finished tied for No. 1 in the ratings (or maybe it was No. 2?). That obviously means most other shows were also way down. The question is why? I doubt it had anything to do with hockey or the Trump proceedings. 

You are missed in that other place, by the way.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

JasmineAEW said:


> I read Meltzer on Twitter today. AEW was _waaaaaaaayy_ down yesterday. But it apparently still finished tied for No. 1 in the ratings (or maybe it was No. 2?). That obviously means most other shows were also way down. The question is why? I doubt it had anything to do with hockey or the Trump proceedings.
> 
> You are missed in that other place, by the way.



I posted once recently. I'll jump over there maybe tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## JasmineAEW

Hotdiggity11 said:


> I posted once recently. I'll jump over there maybe tonight or tomorrow.


YESSS!!!


----------



## zkorejo

3venflow said:


> I'd be more inclined to agree if the most NJPW dominant QH hadn't blown away everything else on the show. So it just doesn't make sense to me, when more of the marquee was devoted to in-house programs than the NJPW stuff. Even Q1 was well below usual when it has the BTT lead-in.
> 
> *There is also this from Thurston that could be very relevant: "It was second lowest Wednesday for cable TV viewership going back six years (and probably decades) with the exception of July 4, 2018."*


I don't understand why though. 4th July is American independence if I'm not mistaken. 

Why would the masses all decide they don't want to watch tv on a random Wednesday.


----------



## RainmakerV2

PunkyChickMagnet said:


> The ratings are down, that is fact.
> 
> Less people watching, means that there is something wrong with their product to where it not only does gain more viewers but loses its core audience.
> 
> By chastising and critizing AEW, it allows them to remove the negatives and continue to add or excentuate the positives.
> 
> Defending them, despite the ratings being down and there clearly being a problem, only enables them to further continue what they’re doing wrong and harm them.
> 
> So how can you claim to love AEW when you’re defending the bad?
> 
> It’s like with parenting, you can’t applaud everything your kid does, when they mess you, you have to discipline them so that they’re able to grow and learn.



Because here's a secret.


*they don't actually care about the company growing and one day competing with WWE.*


They dont care. They just want it to be their little tree house that caters to them and as long as it does then they're happy.


----------



## DammitChrist

PunkyChickMagnet said:


> The ratings are down, that is fact.
> 
> Less people watching, means that there is something wrong with their product to where it not only does gain more viewers but loses its core audience.
> 
> By chastising and critizing AEW, it allows them to remove the negatives and continue to add or excentuate the positives.
> 
> Defending them, despite the ratings being down and there clearly being a problem, only enables them to further continue what they’re doing wrong and harm them.
> 
> So how can you claim to love AEW when you’re defending the bad?
> 
> It’s like with parenting, you can’t applaud everything your kid does, when they mess you, you have to discipline them so that they’re able to grow and learn.





RainmakerV2 said:


> Because here's a secret.
> 
> 
> *they don't actually care about the company growing and one day competing with WWE.
> 
> 
> They dont care. They just want it to be their little tree house that caters to them and as long as it does then they're happy.*


No, that's not accurate at all because they're already delivering a pretty good wrestling product on a weekly basis, and they'll inevitably continue to grow more of their audience in the long-term as long as they continue what they're doing regardless of the resentment of pretty much anything they do on here. 

I clearly do care about their growth and success; which is further exemplified by their impressive ppv buyrates since late August along with Forbidden Door being sold out already attendance-wise, which continues to get no-sold anyway for whatever reason. Plus, I don't laugh at any of their minor setbacks either because their consistently high quality deserves way better ratings.

Anyway, you must be watching some other wrestling program because last night was a great episode that had very *few* negatives


----------



## PunkyChickMagnet

DammitChrist said:


> No, that's not accurate at all because they're already delivering a pretty good wrestling product on a weekly basis, and they'll inevitably continue to grow more of their audience in the long-term as long as they continue what they're doing regardless of the resentment of pretty much anything they do on here.
> 
> I clearly do care about their growth and success; which is further exemplified by their impressive ppv buyrates since late August along with Forbidden Door being sold out already attendance-wise, which continues to get no-sold anyway for whatever reason. Plus, I don't laugh at any of their minor setbacks either because their consistently high quality deserves way better ratings.
> 
> Anyway, you must be watching some other wrestling program because last night was a great episode that had very *few* negatives


Then why are the numbers fluctuating?

They haven’t been over a million in a while, you gaslighting everyone, does no one any good.

It’s annoys those who offer legit criticism but most of all…

You hurt AEW.

If someone in management at AEW were to take your gaslighting and/or trolling serious and work off you’re feedback to continue to do the things that are costing them viewers… *then you actually hurt the company.*

When someone criticizes they do so in order that the criticism is heeded and whoever/whatever is criticized… *improves*.

When a child does something wrong, why does the parent discipline them?

So they learn not to do it again and grow as a person.

You understand this, it’s common nature, don’t pretend you don’t.

You want to pretend everything is fine? Go ahead, but when AEW fails the blood is partially on your hands.

But don’t gaslight people who want to make it better and for it be so prosperous that it beats WWE, as some haters who want to hurt AEW, because the only one hurting AEW is you enabling the bad.

Let me ask you with a Jesus Christ like parable,

Scenario: There’s a guy heavily addicted to hard drugs.

Person A criticizes him and demands he goes to rehab.

Person B tells them they’re actually doing good and to keep doing what they’re doing?

Who is the one who loves and who is the hater?

Person A obviously, as they’re trying to save him.

*The 1st step to fixing the problem is acknowledging there is a problem.*


----------



## PunkyChickMagnet

RainmakerV2 said:


> Because here's a secret.
> 
> 
> *they don't actually care about the company growing and one day competing with WWE.*
> 
> 
> They dont care. They just want it to be their little tree house that caters to them and as long as it does then they're happy.


I see that, my problem is them trying to gaslight us into thinking that they want it to grow.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Imagine doing the same numbers with Bryan Danielson on your roster when people like Jimmy Havoc, Sonny Kiss, Big Swole and Joey Janela were prominently featured WITH direct competition. 

It's time to admit something isn't working.


----------



## PunkyChickMagnet

GNKenny said:


> Imagine doing the same numbers with Bryan Danielson on your roster when people like Jimmy Havoc, Sonny Kiss, Big Swole and Joey Janela were prominently featured WITH direct competition.
> 
> It's time to admit something isn't working.


Imagine in this scene instead of Geena Davis being shocked at his ear falling off, she gaslights him and says everything is ok?

That’s many AEW fans in this sub.


----------



## GarpTheFist

GNKenny said:


> Imagine doing the same numbers with Bryan Danielson on your roster when people like Jimmy Havoc, Sonny Kiss, Big Swole and Joey Janela were prominently featured WITH direct competition.
> 
> It's time to admit something isn't working.



Ikr? The same people defending this also said aew would easily get 1.5m ratings with bryan/punk. Turns out they went downhill instead lol.


----------



## JasmineAEW

GNKenny said:


> Imagine doing the same numbers with Bryan Danielson on your roster when people like Jimmy Havoc, Sonny Kiss, Big Swole and Joey Janela were prominently featured WITH direct competition.
> 
> It's time to admit something isn't working.


Maybe TV audiences for pro wrestling have maxed out? At least for now?

The WWE’s numbers aren’t growing, either.

When you think about it, other sports have plateaued when it comes to ratings as well, although I’m guessing the NFL may be an exception.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's sad that people are happy with a million now. I remember a few years back people were predicting that AEW could be fighting it out with RAW or Smackdown now.


*A few years? Chris Jericho and some goofy Twitter fans said they'd be BEATING RAW last October. I told y'all I'd be right here laughing my ass off 6 months later, and we're way past that point.*


----------



## Geert Wilders

JasmineAEW said:


> Maybe TV audiences for pro wrestling have maxed out? At least for now?
> 
> The WWE’s numbers aren’t growing, either.
> 
> When you think about it, other sports have plateaued when it comes to ratings as well, although I’m guessing the NFL may be an exception.


AEW could grab WWEs viewership.


----------



## JasmineAEW

Geert Wilders said:


> AEW could grab WWEs viewership.


That’s a good point. That would be great, as long as AEW doesn’t become WWE in order to do it. At least, from my perspective.


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> t bummer of a dip for this week's anomaly.


I guess I'll skip the 150 posts that follow this one and guess you had no "valid reason" for that 7xxk number this week.

But I do agree with you. Next week should be up a bit. I thought the show last night wasn't that good but still way better than last week's and next week is the go home ppv show.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

JasmineAEW said:


> Maybe TV audiences for pro wrestling have maxed out? At least for now?
> 
> The WWE’s numbers aren’t growing, either.
> 
> When you think about it, other sports have plateaued when it comes to ratings as well, although I’m guessing the NFL may be an exception.


Even if you're a staunch AEW fan I dunno how you could like the direction right now. It absolutely has that Russo chaotic energy in the worst way.

I know some people here don't wanna hear it, but a consistent roster with more cohesive storytelling would help right off the bat. They had that at one time and the shows were way better...in my opinion.

As for WWE the shows just stink. We've seen the lapsed audience turn up a few times in recent years. They exist. I don't want to hear that nonsense about it not counting because it was a special episode. You mean to tell me they couldn't retain even a mere fraction of them if the show was actually good?


----------



## JasmineAEW

GNKenny said:


> Even if you're a staunch AEW fan I dunno how you could like the direction right now.


I just like what I like, I guess. I’m loving AEW. Wednesday is my favorite day of the week thanks to Dynamite, and Fridays aren’t far behind.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

GNKenny said:


> Imagine doing the same numbers with Bryan Danielson on your roster when people like Jimmy Havoc, Sonny Kiss, Big Swole and Joey Janela were prominently featured WITH direct competition.
> 
> It's time to admit something isn't working.




Everything is going great. There's nothing to worry about!


----------



## GarpTheFist

The Legit Lioness said:


> *A few years? Chris Jericho and some goofy Twitter fans said they'd be BEATING RAW last October. I told y'all I'd be right here laughing my ass off 6 months later, and we're way past that point.*


Has jericho always been this stupid? Either he's gone insane since he went to aew or the creative freedom has brought forth all the stupidity that was held back by vince. Someone needs to make a compilation of all the stupid things he has said or done pre aew for comparison.




GNKenny said:


> Even if you're a staunch AEW fan I dunno how you could like the direction right now. It absolutely has that Russo chaotic energy in the worst way.
> 
> I know some people here don't wanna hear it, but a consistent roster with more cohesive storytelling would help right off the bat. They had that at one time and the shows were way better...in my opinion.
> 
> As for WWE the shows just stink. We've seen the lapsed audience turn up a few times in recent years. They exist. I don't want to hear that nonsense about it not counting because it was a special episode. You mean to tell me they couldn't retain even a mere fraction of them if the show was actually good?



I remember they did a SD legends show in 2018/9 and that show got over 3m!! That was when SD was only getting around 2m so they got almost 1m fans back who dont watch because there are no stars, and they only came back for the stars. That opened up my eyes and made me realize that there's definitely an audience there that you can bring back if your show is good enough or you make huge stars.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> I'd be more inclined to agree if the most NJPW dominant QH hadn't blown away everything else on the show. So it just doesn't make sense to me, when more of the marquee was devoted to in-house programs than the NJPW stuff. Even Q1 was well below usual when it has the BTT lead-in.
> 
> There is also this from Thurston that could be very relevant: "It was second lowest Wednesday for cable TV viewership going back six years (and probably decades) with the exception of July 4, 2018."


*The Ospreay match was one of the lowest rated segments. The Tanahashi/Moxley showdown drew the most interest, because it's the only thing on the card worth a damn. Just because Tanahashi did well doesn't mean the random New Japan tag teams with no proper introduction are getting over.*


----------



## DammitChrist

The highest rated quarterly segment on Dynamite *featured* Will Ospreay within the early minutes of Q4, which is safe to say that more viewers eventually tuned in as his match progressed just in time to see the post-match segment/confrontation with Orange Cassidy.

The top NJPW stars did their part in bringing some more interest to this episode in spite of the weird dip this week.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> Stop being a hypocrite bro, you were all over Ospreay last night you made a whole thread about it.


*Ospreay being a great gymnast and choreographer changes nothing about the fact that he doesn't draw in the states because the television audience doesn't know who the fuck he is. There are plenty of great wrestlers who never drew a dime and never will. I don't know how many times the ratings have to tank for useless wrestling matches and spike dramatically for talking segments for y'all to get the point.*


----------



## Not Lying

Obviously the NJPW partnership doesn’t translate well except For Hardcore fans



The Legit Lioness said:


> *Ospreay being a great gymnast and choreographer changes nothing about the fact that he doesn't draw in the states because the television audience doesn't know who the fuck he is. There are plenty of great wrestlers who never drew a dime and never will. I don't know how many times the ratings have to take for useless wrestling matches and spiked dramatically for talking segments for y'all to get the point.*


well true.

* Cries in Alex Shelley’s only megafan.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> Obviously the NJPW partnership doesn’t translate well except For Hardcore fans
> 
> 
> 
> well true.
> 
> * Cries in Alex Shelley’s only megafan.


*Do you think SARAYA will be a needle mover if she comes over here?*


----------



## the_hound

The Legit Lioness said:


> *because the television audience doesn't know who the fuck he is.*


had he been in aew during the meetoo movement then the tv audience would have known exactly who he is.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

JasmineAEW said:


> I just like what I like, I guess. I’m loving AEW. Wednesday is my favorite day of the week thanks to Dynamite, and Fridays aren’t far behind.


Hey it's all good. I won't disparage what anyone likes. I'll argue till I'm blue in the face that late 2000-2001 WCW was a good-great wrestling show.

I dunno. I won't pretend I'm an expert on television ratings as I've said before, but I can't see how anyone would be satisfied with their numbers for a while now. Their roster is truly elite now and they haven't had direct wrestling competition for a while. You'd think they'd be much higher and more consistent but they aren't. I'm not just talking about this number, I mean in general. This thread is just a fun little game, because it fluctuates so much. Next week it'll probably go up, if not they are in genuine trouble.

I think that's due in part to it being about the brand to an extent ala ECW. (In my opinion) nobody really feels important because Khan seems afraid to have top guys beat other top guys at times. Or to pull the trigger on big matches already. TNA had the same problem, but for different reasons. 

AEW has the this thing where a lot of the show moves glacially slow, but they book for television and hotshot constantly. It's very weird.

Now as for personal enjoyment, this is the least I've liked AEW ever. You can't knock the in ring aspect, but the storytelling is either bad or practically nonexistent. They're also doing a number on Wardlow's momentum. To me it feels like he's cooled off exponentially.

This is the most active board and AEW is the most interesting company to talk about; so here I remain haha.


----------



## GarpTheFist

GNKenny said:


> Hey it's all good. I won't disparage what anyone likes. I'll argue till I'm blue in the face that late 2000-2001 WCW was a good-great wrestling show haha.
> 
> I dunno. I won't pretend I'm an expert on television ratings as I've said before, but I can't see how anyone would be satisfied with their numbers for a while now. Their roster is truly elite now and they haven't had direct wrestling competition for a while. You'd think they'd be much higher and more consistent but they aren't. I'm not just talking about this number, I mean in general. This thread is just a fun little game, because it fluctuates so much. Next week it'll probably go up, if not they are in genuine trouble.
> 
> I think that's due in part to it being about the brand to an extent ala ECW. (In my opinion) nobody really feels important because Khan seems afraid to have top guys beat other top guys at times. Or to pull the trigger on big matches already. AEW has the weirdest thing where a lot of the show moves glacially slow, but they book for television and hotshot constantly. It's very weird.
> 
> Now as for personal enjoyment, this is the least I've liked AEW ever. You can't knock the in ring aspect, but the storytelling is either bad or practically nonexistent. They're also doing a number on Wardlow's momentum. To me it feels like he's cooled off exponentially.
> 
> This is the most active board and AEW is the most interesting company to talk about; so here I remain haha.



Might be a unpopular opinion, idk, but aew was kinda good from first winter is coming till all out(late 2020-sep2021). It went downhill after that and i stopped watching untill recently.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

GarpTheFist said:


> Might be a unpopular opinion, idk, but aew was kinda good from first winter is coming till all out(late 2020-sep2021). It went downhill after that and i stopped watching untill recently.


It really has felt like everything started to fall apart when Kenny left. Least to me anyway. The problems had been building for a while though.


----------



## Jaxon

awful number, next week it will go back up and repeat. nothing to see here


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Do you think SARAYA will be a needle mover if she comes over here?*


I don’t know 😂 I haven’t followed for years, she has a huge social media following like many divas/total divas of the 2013-2015 era but idk how devoted they are to her. If she can bring some with her yeah, but she’s not gona be moving the needle neither for her wrestling or promos.

she’s not needed in wrestling anymore.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

3venflow said:


> Here's the Nielsen rankings and somehow they finished 2nd with that 0.28.
> 
> View attachment 125391
> 
> 
> Stanley Cup won the night on all TV, but their numbers were well below the NBA playoffs, against which AEW did decent numbers, so I'm not sure what happened on U.S. TV last night.
> 
> View attachment 125392


I found your answer in the Broadcast ratings;

The Price is Right 50th Anniversary Show. For those who are from the U.S. I don't have to say how significant that is. For those who are from another country, that don't know what that is, the show is typically on at early to mid-afternoon (I watched at 11pm when I was too sick to go to school/work) depending on where you are at. Having it at night is a rare and very big deal. 

Someone who didn't grow up with Bob Barker in their homes will never understand his place in American History and Nostalgia.


----------



## GarpTheFist

GNKenny said:


> It really has felt like everything started to fall apart when Kenny left. Least to me anyway. The problems had been building for a while though.



It's not kenny for me, its the amount of signings since then and the mishandling of bryan/punk/cole. I think miro was gone by then right? He was one of the things keeping me interested. They put their focus on ex wwe guys which also turned off many people.


----------



## NathanMayberry

ripcitydisciple said:


> I found your answer in the Broadcast ratings;
> 
> The Price is Right 50th Anniversary Show. For those who are from the U.S. I don't have to say how significant that is. For those who are from another country, that don't know what that is, the show is typically on at early to mid-afternoon (I watched at 11pm when I was too sick to go to school/work) depending on where you are at. Having it at night is a rare and very big deal.
> 
> Someone who didn't grow up with Bob Barker in their homes will never understand his place in American History and Nostalgia.



It’s becoming beyond pathetic at the excuses y’all come up with.. this is one of the worst I’ve seen yet..

A show watched by boomers that barely drew 4 million people isn’t a big deal. Nor is it airing at night rare, it happens fairly frequently.. Ratings: Price Is Right Ties 9-1-1s and American Idol for Monday Demo Win

I know it’s easier to look externally when you see low ratings, but it’s time y’all started accepting the fact that Dynamite isn’t as good as y’all proclaim every Wednesday night 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NathanMayberry

This wins 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Zappers

That's .. how do you say. Not good ratings. 

But as long as the AEW fans are happy over there. Good for them I guess. 🤷‍♂️ I feel sorry for the performers that needless risk their lives doing crazy spots on a weekly basis for those ratings.

Story, work, whatever. But MJF's promo was right. You don't have to do that to be over.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Terrible number, which is a shame because show was pretty stacked. Maybe indicative of last week’s quality but however you want to put it, it’s a bad number.


----------



## kingfunkel

So punk was a need mover. Turns out he was keeping the wheels on.

At 1 point aew had 1.4m viewers, that's half the audience has thought "you know what, fuck that shit". 2 years ago 700k would be acceptable, but it's outgrown that. This is a nose dive off a high cliff into an oncoming train.
They need to stop with this forbidden door. The casual audience doesn't care or know why these Japanese characters are suddenly turning up. Tbf I'm more on the hardcore side of the fence and I don't care for it. It's aew not njew.


----------



## DammitChrist

Will Ospreay and Hiroshi Tanahashi being among the several names who were part of the most viewed quarterly segment for this week just feels right.

Plenty of wrestling fans want to see good workrate/wrestling


----------



## The real Axel

DammitChrist said:


> Forbidden Door selling out in attendance already, and 2 top NJPW stars (in Hiroshi Tanahashi plus Will Ospreay) being featured in the highest quarterly rated segment last night says otherwise.
> 
> It's the opposite of a flop.


Man if you told me Ospreay was gonna be facing the guy who fights with his hands in his pockets I'd think you were making some sick joke. 

Please no 'fun' spin on this I beg


----------



## Zappers

kingfunkel said:


> So punk was a need mover. Turns out he was keeping the wheels on.
> 
> At 1 point aew had 1.4m viewers, that's half the audience has thought "you know what, fuck that shit". 2 years ago 700k would be acceptable, but it's outgrown that. This is a nose dive off a high cliff into an oncoming train.
> They need to stop with this forbidden door. The casual audience doesn't care or know why these Japanese characters are suddenly turning up. Tbf I'm more on the hardcore side of the fence and I don't care for it. It's aew not njew.


The Forbidden Door. OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's someone from WWE or New Japan or Impact.


----------



## Kishido

That damn NBA!!! Oh wait... That damn whatever!

But do not sorry WWE will bury themselves before with Stephanie as head of the table


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> I don’t know 😂 I haven’t followed for years, she has a huge social media following like many divas/total divas of the 2013-2015 era but idk how devoted they are to her. If she can bring some with her yeah, but she’s not gona be moving the needle neither for her wrestling or promos.
> 
> she’s not needed in wrestling anymore.


*Your 2014 self would be FLAMING you right now. I can't BELIEVE this is the same person I argued with every day about Paige sucking 🤣🤣🤣🤣*


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

730k!?!?!?!?!!?!?!










Maybe have Wardlow take on a SWAT team next week Tony!!!!! LMAO


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> 730k!?!?!?!?!!?!?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe have Wardlow take on a SWAT team next week Tony!!!!! LMAO


*Damn, it's almost like everyone who said putting random C list Japanese talent on television will flop was right.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Damn, it's almost like everyone who said putting random C list Japanese talent on television will flop was right.*


guess next week will be the same then, cause its the go-home of the no video package japanese extravaganza

even less maybe?


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> guess next week will be the same then, cause its the go-home of the no video package japanese extravaganza
> 
> even less maybe?



We'll see. IF it was just an anomaly and a lot of people didn't watch TV that night they'll bounce back to around their average. If it's another bad number than it's pretty clear to see what's going on here.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> guess next week will be the same then, cause its the go-home of the no video package japanese extravaganza
> 
> even less maybe?


*Second worst regular time slot rating ever. Extremely low viewership for Ospreay vs. Dax. Our point was already proven.*


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

am just gonna bang on incessantly again for a bit. This thread is just a fun game since the ratings go up and down and I think most of us know that. Next week the other side can chalk it up as a win when they inevitably go back up, oh boy.

Though sincerely I dunno how you can call these numbers for the last few months a win with the roster at their disposal and no NXT. That's without getting into how they nuked Darby Allin's momentum who felt like he was on the cusp of something great prior to losing the TNT title/to Punk. Wardlow is currently trending downward himself, though I never really saw what the big deal was with him.

ok that's enough incessant banging on, it's getting redundant


----------



## DammitChrist

Oh, I guess Will Ospreay being part of the highest quarterly rated segment on Dynamite this week (especially as his match with Dax Harwood progressed all the way through his post-match segment with Orange Cassidy) will continue to be no-sold since he's a top NJPW star who happens to be an excellent workrate guy.



GNKenny said:


> am just gonna bang on incessantly again for a bit. This thread is just a fun game since the ratings go up and down and I think most of us know that. *Next week the other side can chalk it up as a win when they inevitably go back up, oh boy.*


Oh, we'd have every right to be loud when they inevitably rise back up.


----------



## La Parka

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, I guess Will Ospreay being part of the highest quarterly rated segment on Dynamite this week (especially as his match with Dax Harwood progressed all the way through his post-match segment with Orange Cassidy) will continue to be no-sold since he's a top NJPW star who happens to be an excellent workrate guy.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, we'd have every right to be loud when they inevitably rise back up.


Well they can't get much lower


----------



## Hotdiggity11

La Parka said:


> Well they can't get much lower



Don't challenge Tony Khan on that one.


----------



## Art Vandaley

Agreed re the NJPW stuff depressing viewership and ratings, but also Punk, Bryan, Omega, MJF and Hardy are all out of action.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Art Vandaley said:


> Agreed re the NJPW stuff depressing viewership and ratings, but also Punk, Bryan, Omega, MJF and Hardy are all out of action.


*Kenny was never a top draw, just a stabilizer. They've done great numbers consistently without him. Punk and MJF being out is KILLING them.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Hiroshi Tanahashi and Will Ospreay being prominently featured in Q4, which got the highest rated quarterly segment this week is evident that NJPW guys are capable of maintaining or capturing interest in AEW too.


----------



## zorori

The ratings are low due to a number of factors:


No Punk, MJF, Bryan, etc.
Following that absolutely terrible episode of Dynamite (I almost didn't watch this week after that...) I'd also say the show quality has generally been lower (MJF segments aside) and has been rather hit and miss.
NJPW isn't a pull for a portion of the audience.

Hopefully things will pick up after forbidden door.


----------



## DammitChrist

Last week’s episode of Dynamite wasn’t even terrible.

It has a 7.39 rating on Cagematch, and that’s coming from a site where voters frequently gives low ratings for AEW Dark and Elevation (as well as give harsh ratings to some matches, especially some of the women).

It had an excellent main event with Kyle O’Reilly vs Jon Moxley, the big debut of Will Ospreay (who is someone that you’ll keep hearing about or seeing for a long time), a fun Battle Royal that had plenty of stakes, and a solid wrestling match with Buddy Matthews vs Pac.

It was definitely a filler episode, but it was far from being terrible.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

zorori said:


> The ratings are low due to a number of factors:
> 
> 
> No Punk, MJF, Bryan, etc.
> Following that absolutely terrible episode of Dynamite (I almost didn't watch this week after that...) I'd also say the show quality has generally been lower (MJF segments aside) and has been rather hit and miss.
> NJPW isn't a pull for a portion of the audience.
> 
> Hopefully things will pick up after forbidden door.


*I'm glad someone can be honest around here.*


----------



## IronMan8

DammitChrist said:


> Last week’s episode of Dynamite wasn’t even terrible.
> 
> It has a 7.39 rating on Cagematch, and that’s coming from a site where voters frequently gives low ratings for AEW Dark and Elevation (as well as give harsh ratings to some matches, especially some of the women).
> 
> It had an excellent main event with Kyle O’Reilly vs Jon Moxley, the big debut of Will Ospreay (who is someone that you’ll keep hearing about or seeing for a long time), a fun Battle Royal that had plenty of stakes, and a solid wrestling match with Buddy Matthews vs Pac.
> 
> It was definitely a filler episode, but it was far from being terrible.


Dude, I've made about 1000 posts on AEW over the past 2 years. I've been nothing but a fanboy in that time. I can't remember making a single negative post, or at least nothing seriously negative.

Last week's episode was so bad I almost quit watching AEW altogether.

It was that bad, and the ratings are evidence I wasn't the only one.

I went from loving every single episode, to feeing insulted, ripped off, and disrespected by AEW for their jaw-droppingly nonsensical segments with insulting logic gaps and dumb ideas one after another.

I almost thought they'd completely jumped the shark in just 1 week - it was _that_ bad (and I use the term 'jumping the shark' deliberately and accurately here). I've loved every other episode in recent months, so I begrudgingly watched this week's episode to give them a chance.

Actually, that Ethan Page / Miro YouTube promo was what gave me the spark to be sure I would watch Dynamite, as it was one of the best promos I've seen all year - and this week's episode _was_ back to their awesome best - but still, it contained more dumbfounding decisions that are harder to ignore with the bitter aftertaste of last week's episode. For example, the bewildering decision to just throw that Ethan/Miro match out there cold without showing any of that absolutely incredible A+ promo.

What the hell were they thinking?

You have one of the absolute best promos you've ever had someone cut in your company, and you decide to just not show it and put the match out there cold?

And it was for _that_ title. And speaking of titles... they had the ROH tag champ + AAA tag champ against a Japan US champ carrying some other Japan belt? On the same night someone else won the AEW tag belts? 

I'm sorry, but that's just a microcosm of the regular low IQ stuff that in sum reflects poorly on the future of AEW. I really don't get it. But most of all, I'm annoyed by it because so much of what they do is awesome, but they keep shooting themselves in the foot with easily fixable problems that they don't fix.

It's not about any individual talent. It's not about New Japan. The issue is their core philosophies were exposed as being dumb as hell in recent weeks.

Unintentionally, they disrespected the fans with last week's episode. If they don't truly understand why and how they disrespected the fans, they're going to do it again in the future.

The best analysis that I've found on this issue was on Wade Keller's The Fix with Todd Martin.

If Tony Kahn only has 2 hours to get a concise analysis of all the essential problems to last week's episode, that's the one source I wish he'd take to heart.

AEW will continue to produce amazing episodes, but their fundamental flaws are a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. And not the sparkler kind.


----------



## CovidFan

KOR/Mox and Pac/Buddy were good but for me the show was already bad after that horrid battle royal (putting it kindly). It was a battle royal for a shot at a world fucking championship and you could've put it on dark and nobody would've missed anything except the winner. I'm sure there was other bad stuff but that soured me a lot and pretending that it was anything but a complete miss is laughable.


----------



## DammitChrist

IronMan8 said:


> Dude, I've made about 1000 posts on AEW over the past 2 years. I've been nothing but a fanboy in that time. I can't remember making a single negative post, or at least nothing seriously negative.
> 
> Last week's episode was so bad I almost quit watching AEW altogether.
> 
> It was that bad, and the ratings are evidence I wasn't the only one.
> 
> I went from loving every single episode, to feeing insulted, ripped off, and disrespected by AEW for their jaw-droppingly nonsensical segments with insulting logic gaps and dumb ideas one after another.
> 
> I almost thought they'd completely jumped the shark in just 1 week - it was _that_ bad (and I use the term 'jumping the shark' deliberately and accurately here). I've loved every other episode in recent months, so I begrudgingly watched this week's episode to give them a chance.
> 
> Actually, that Ethan Page / Miro YouTube promo was what gave me the spark to be sure I would watch Dynamite, as it was one of the best promos I've seen all year - and this week's episode _was_ back to their awesome best - but still, it contained more dumbfounding decisions that are harder to ignore with the bitter aftertaste of last week's episode. For example, the bewildering decision to just throw that Ethan/Miro match out there cold without showing any of that absolutely incredible A+ promo.
> 
> What the hell were they thinking?
> 
> You have one of the absolute best promos you've ever had someone cut in your company, and you decide to just not show it and put the match out there cold?
> 
> And it was for _that_ title. And speaking of titles... they had the ROH tag champ + AAA tag champ against a Japan US champ carrying some other Japan belt? On the same night someone else won the AEW tag belts?
> 
> I'm sorry, but that's just a microcosm of the regular low IQ stuff that in sum reflects poorly on the future of AEW. I really don't get it. But most of all, I'm annoyed by it because so much of what they do is awesome, but they keep shooting themselves in the foot with easily fixable problems that they don't fix.
> 
> It's not about any individual talent. It's not about New Japan. The issue is their core philosophies were exposed as being dumb as hell in recent weeks.
> 
> Unintentionally, they disrespected the fans with last week's episode. If they don't truly understand why and how they disrespected the fans, they're going to do it again in the future.
> 
> The best analysis that I've found on this issue was on Wade Keller's The Fix with Todd Martin.
> 
> If Tony Kahn only has 2 hours to get a concise analysis of all the essential problems to last week's episode, that's the one source I wish he'd take to heart.
> 
> AEW will continue to produce amazing episodes, but their fundamental flaws are a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. And not the sparkler kind.


Dude, it was a fun filler episode that did the best they could with giving good highlights despite not having their multiple top stars available that night.

It's not that deep.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

With all due respect to DC the new car seems to be wearing off for everyone but him. The more and more I go around the internet wrestling community the more and more I see "AEW used to be good" and "I loved AEW for a long time but I don't follow anymore"

Admittedly WWE has people saying the same things but AEW needs as much audience as it can get...


----------



## GarpTheFist

Chip Chipperson said:


> With all due respect to DC the new car seems to be wearing off for everyone but him. The more and more I go around the internet wrestling community the more and more I see "AEW used to be good" and "I loved AEW for a long time but I don't follow anymore"
> 
> Admittedly WWE has people saying the same things but AEW needs as much audience as it can get...



They can't admit aew is bad because then it wouldn't justify their anti-wwe agendas. They need aew to be good at all times or it falls apart for them.


----------



## DammitChrist

GarpTheFist said:


> They can't admit aew is bad because then it wouldn't justify their anti-wwe agendas. They need aew to be good at all times or it falls apart for them.


Except for the fact that AEW is good.


----------



## squarebox

edit: sorry i couldn't be bothered.


----------



## Wolf Mark

TBS Presents: Google Wrestling


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Wtf was that rampage rating?

legit cancellation territory

madness - time to put the TNT title exclusive on there IMO


----------



## 3venflow

Very sharp drop indeed for Rampage. These are the type of numbers you worry about if you're AEW (0.10 in the 18-49 which is sub-NXT 2.0), not the usual ones that we get hyperbole over every week but which are contextually fine on cable.

Curious where to see where it finished on cable. Dynamite's ratings were shocking on first glance, but were pretty much joint first on Weds. I doubt Rampage will be the same, though.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Very sharp drop indeed for Rampage. These are the type of numbers you worry about if you're AEW (0.10 in the 18-49), not the usual ones that we get hyperbole over every week but which are contextually fine on cable.


yeah - this is legit the first number that has me worried for cancellation

like - it was a ok to good Rampage - not sure why it went so low

but TK has to do something - he won‘t survive 5 more of these


----------



## ProjectGargano

Yikes to Rampage rating...i blame TK with that, right now Rampage is a big nothing, only with matches that aren't important and without any angles, if you miss it you don't lose anything...


----------



## TD Stinger

Rampage Ratings in the Mud, Ditch, Dirt, Earth, etc.

I think the thing with Rampage is that it often feels like Dynamite's Leftovers. That's pretty much what last week's show felt like, even with a Mox match. It didn't feel like a big show to go out of your way to see. It just felt like another hour of TV. A decent hour of TV, but nothing worthwhile. And I kind of get it. Rampage 8/10 times is taped and they want the more important stuff to happen on the live show. But in turn that makes Rampage feel less important.

People always mention changing timeslots but with WWE Competition and TK, and his dad, owning an NFL team, meaning they can't compete against the NFL, they're left with few options:

Sunday: That's NFL Day
Monday: Monday Night Football and Raw
Tuesday: Basketball Night for TNT
Wednesday: Already have Dynamite
Thursday: Basketball Night for TNT and Thursday Night Football
Friday: Smackdown in prime time

Really the only other day they could use is Saturday.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Nothing interesting happens on Rampage. It's just Veloctiy with longer matches. Now I loved me some Velocity but it was a far cry from a legit 2nd show. Rampage feels like a C show at best most of the time. 

I once again reiterate Khan should let someone else book Rampage and experiment with it more. It's pretty much the same thing every week.


----------



## 3venflow

Here's the rankings. Rampage finished 22nd, which is higher than I thought with that 0.10, because the Friday before that would've had them anywhere from #33 to #43. The #1 show only did a 0.24 in the 18-49, so there wasn't exactly a high bar on the day.


----------



## DammitChrist

I think it's obvious at this point that frequently changing time slots every week for 2 months pretty much crippled them in the ratings.

I'd just move Rampage to Saturday evenings around 7 PM EST, and HOPE that they can go several months without being interrupted or kicked off for sports.

The 10 PM EST time slot is a pain in the ass for the most part since that's usually when most wrestling programs end.


----------



## Dr. Middy

I find the show an easy hour to watch, but the shows are just skippable and there's nothing overly major that ever seems to happen on them. Like somebody else said, a bunch of easy to predict matches and nothing else isn't really worth the time to most people, and I can't blame them. 

They should add maybe like a somewhat noteable segment or match to every show. The ratings seemed way better for Rampage when they did like the Britt/Ruby promos on it, or when they did like the Andrade/PAC matches, or Tag title matches, and so forth. You gotta give people a reason to care about watching the show, and it's clear for most that isn't the case, even if they were hurt by so many time slot shifts.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Lost to 2.0 in the demo, ho-lee, on a big night for wrestling too with the Vince news and Roman defense.


----------



## TD Stinger




----------



## Dark Emperor

So Smackdown gets 2.4m viewers and Rampage gets 331k straight after. Embarrassing number.

Tony Khan in the mud. Lets see how he brags about this.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TD Stinger said:


>


that demo ain’t it - terrible number


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Any company besides AEW and it'd be a talking point on how they completely botched Darby Allin's momentum. Wardlow is next unless something changes pronto. 

He can always be the Fat Chick Thriller I guess.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

GNKenny said:


> Any company besides AEW and it'd be a talking point on how they completely botched Darby Allin's momentum. Wardlow is next unless something changes pronto.
> 
> He can always be the Fat Chick Thriller I guess.


Darby’s momentum isn’t botched

he’s around the midcard / upper - where he currently should be

now granted, he should’ve beaten Jeff and he definitely should have beaten KOR

but the very nature of the guy is IMO ‘unburiable’ - he can win the TNT or AA title tomorrow and nobody will bat an eye


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Darby’s momentum isn’t botched
> 
> he’s around the midcard / upper - where he currently should be
> 
> now granted, he should’ve beaten Jeff and he definitely should have beaten KOR
> 
> but the very nature of the guy is IMO ‘unburiable’ - he can win the TNT or AA title tomorrow and nobody will bat an eye


Nah I disagree. He had something as TNT Champion and felt like he was on the cusp of truly breaking out. He's shot downwards hard ever since the title loss and then moreso against Punk. The latest losses are just ridiculous.

He's still over, but it just doesn't feel the same to me. 

I dunno. I could be wrong, but I think it'll go down as one of their bigger mistakes in a few years once hindsight is applicable.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Hard to believe with this big match lineup.

A face vs face match featuring Jon Moxley against a midcarder with no mic skills

2 lower tier tag team match

A title match with Jade against a jobber with a losing record

Darby Allin vs the third wheel of AEW's Undisputed Era


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

GNKenny said:


> Nah I disagree. He had something as TNT Champion and felt like he was on the cusp of truly breaking out. He's shot downwards hard ever since the title loss and then moreso against Punk. The latest losses are just ridiculous.
> 
> He's still over, but it just doesn't feel the same to me.
> 
> I dunno. I could be wrong, but I think it'll go down as one of their bigger mistakes in a few years once hindsight is applicable.


up to you mate, but after the tnt title his pairing with Sting got some massive tag matches and wins

spotlight too

i think you might be making your calls based on his last 2 losses only - ignoring his complete 2022 record and even his latest win against Fish

but that is just IMO


----------



## Lenny Leonard

But tiny said they won the Friday night war


----------



## La Parka

Lenny Leonard said:


> But tiny said they won the Friday night war


THAT WAS PROVEN IN COURT


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Lenny Leonard said:


> But tiny said they won the Friday night war



No CM Punk, who carried AEW in the Friday Night War. Just asking Fucking Jerry McDevitt who admitted it in court!


----------



## RainmakerV2

La Parka said:


> THAT WAS PROVEN IN COURT



331 >2.4




Duh


----------



## RainmakerV2

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Hard to believe with this big match lineup.
> 
> A face vs face match featuring Jon Moxley against a midcarder with no mic skills
> 
> 2 lower tier tag team match
> 
> A title match with Jade against a jobber with a losing record
> 
> Darby Allin vs the third wheel of AEW's Undisputed Era



I mean you've got what should be their biggest draw vs. A guy they claim is supposed to be a huge future star

The chick that's goldberging her division and is a champ

And one of your biggest homegrown stars vs. A guy from a stable that's pushed down our throats every week.

I mean the matches are a little predictable but they aren't just throwing local ham and eggers out there either. On a night where 2.5 mil just watched Reigns title defense and 2.3 mil watched Vinces segment. With no major sports competition. 

There's no spinning that number, it's horrific.


----------



## Businessman

331k is still better than whatever Smackdown did

Just ask Tony, booker of the decade


----------



## DammitChrist

Lenny Leonard said:


> But tiny said they won the Friday night war


First of all, his name is Tony Khan. Spell it right already.

Secondly, they tied (and even BEAT) the Smackdown ratings with the young demographic numbers back in October where Ruby Soho vs Bunny embarrassingly tied 2 of the most overpushed bores on Smackdown; so that alone is a huge W that'll never be taken away from Rampage.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> First of all, his name is Tony Khan. Spell it right already.
> 
> *Secondly, they tied (and even BEAT) the Smackdown ratings with the young demographic numbers back in October where Ruby Soho vs Bunny embarrassingly tied 2 of the most overpushed bores on Smackdown; so that alone is a huge W that'll never be taken away from Rampage.*



AEW barely 3 years old and we're already talking about the good ol' days of what AEW used to do. LOL


----------



## Sad Panda

As someone who is busy and has children, 10pm on a Friday is just too much. I haven’t watched Rampage in months.

That time slot is just the shits and will always be the shits.

When they had that one live Rampage that was on at 7 pm I believe it was, that was fantastic.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> AEW barely 3 years old and we're already talking about the good ol' days of what AEW used to do. LOL


Once again, you completely misinterpreted an accurate post regarding the ratings.


----------



## GarpTheFist

GNKenny said:


> Any company besides AEW and it'd be a talking point on how they completely botched Darby Allin's momentum. Wardlow is next unless something changes pronto.
> 
> He can always be the Fat Chick Thriller I guess.



Darby is one of the many casualties of Tony's "long term booking". Imagine if vince waited when cena/batista got hot instead of giving both of them the titles 😂


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> Once again, you completely misinterpreted an accurate post regarding the ratings.



Nothing was misinterpreted. Everyone else here is talking about Rampage's most recent rating [It was pretty bad]. You are currently talking about a rating from October of last year.


It's quite clearly a hearty glass of copium from someone that can't bear the thought of anyone criticizing his precious wrestling company.


----------



## DammitChrist

GarpTheFist said:


> Darby is one of the many casualties of Tony's "long term booking". Imagine if vince waited when cena/batista got hot instead of giving both of them the titles 😂


Huh, you mean the long-term booking that Vince used for Batista where it took nearly 3 years for him to finally turn on Triple H (only for the long build up/storyline to ACTUALLY work in the end)?

How about Vince waiting nearly 2 years to finally commit with a big push on John Cena around the main event scene (where he started getting super over within the 2nd half of 2003)?



Hotdiggity11 said:


> Nothing was misinterpreted. Everyone else here is talking about Rampage's most recent rating [It was pretty bad]. You are currently talking about a rating from October of last year.
> 
> 
> *It's quite clearly a hearty glass of copium from someone that can't bear the thought of anyone criticizing his precious wrestling company.*


Dude, your whole gimmick here is to provoke (even against fans who are primarily discussing and rationalizing the ratings). If you've still got nothing substantial to add here, then don't even bother.

As I said, it's obvious to everyone else that the 2 months of nonstop frequent changes to the time slot is what crippled them; but hey, the company is apparently dying regardless of their good quality.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> Huh, you mean the long-term booking that Vince used for Batista where it took nearly 3 years for him to finally turn on Triple H (only for the long build up/storyline to ACTUALLY work in the end)?
> 
> How about Vince waiting nearly 2 years to finally commit with a big push on John Cena around the main event scene (where he started getting super over within the 2nd half of 2003)?
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, your whole gimmick here is to provoke (even against fans who are primarily discussing and rationalizing the ratings). If you've still got nothing substantial to add here, then don't even bother.
> 
> As I said, it's obvious to everyone else that the 2 months of nonstop frequent changes to the time slot is what crippled them; but hey, the company is apparently dying regardless of their good quality.



My "whole gimmick?" I've been on this forum almost a decade longer than you dude. What, did I make this profile in anticipation for AEW's creation 13 years later? LOL, please.

It's just a fact that almost every post I see [Not just mine] on this forum that is even a hint of criticism of AEW usually has your eye rolling emoticon. We're all talking about Rampage's current rating and you are bringing up a rating from October of 2021. You have an excuse for anything that doesn't show the company in a perfect light. It's hilarious.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> My "whole gimmick?" I've been on this forum almost a decade longer than you dude. What, did I make this profile in anticipation for AEW's creation 13 years later? LOL, please.
> 
> It's just a fact that almost every post I see [Not just mine] on this forum that is even a hint of criticism of AEW usually has your eye rolling emoticon. We're all talking about Rampage's current rating and you are bringing up a rating from October of 2021. You have an excuse for anything that doesn't show the company in a perfect light. It's hilarious.



Dread it, run from it, the eyeroll arrives all the same.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> My "*whole gimmick*?" I've been on this forum almost a decade longer than you dude. What, did I make this profile in anticipation for AEW's creation 13 years later? LOL, please.


Who said it can't be recent and temporary? 



> It's just a fact that almost every post I see [Not just mine] on this forum that is even a hint of criticism of AEW usually has your eye rolling emoticon. We're all talking about Rampage's current rating and you are bringing up a rating from October of 2021. You have an excuse for anything that doesn't show the company in a perfect light. It's hilarious.


I don't give 'excuses' at all since I give valid reasons regarding the ratings each week, which you continue to overlook. What's truly amusing though will be the imminent silence when they'll inevitably rise up back to 1 million+ viewers soon


----------



## RainmakerV2

Sad Panda said:


> As someone who is busy and has children, 10pm on a Friday is just too much. I haven’t watched Rampage in months.
> 
> That time slot is just the shits and will always be the shits.
> 
> When they had that one live Rampage that was on at 7 pm I believe it was, that was fantastic.



Yet somehow 2.5 million had no issue tuning in at 945 pm for Roman's defense lol.


----------



## DammitChrist

That ratings boost being due to Vince's scandal and Riddle being pretty darn over with various crowds confirmed (while being in a world title match too).


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Yet more than 2 million of the people who watched the tail-end of Smackdown didn't bother turning it over to Dynamite to watch former AEW champion [Probably 2 time soon] Jon Moxley in a match. Strange!


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Yet more than 2 million of the people who watched the tail-end of Smackdown didn't bother turning it over to Dynamite to watch former AEW champion [Probably 2 time soon] Jon Moxley in a match. Strange!


It says a lot that they'd rather see the far worse wrestling show that regularly insults their intelligence each week.

Again, it's almost like the 2 months of nonstop time slot changes for almost every week crippled Rampage's viewership for the long-term.


----------



## Sad Panda

RainmakerV2 said:


> Yet somehow 2.5 million had no issue tuning in at 945 pm for Roman's defense lol.


I don’t care what 2.5 million people did, I don’t watch WWE. I’m just saying, for me(and I’m sure a lot of folks) 10 pm on Fridays is a crappy time slot.


----------



## zorori

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Hard to believe with this big match lineup.
> 
> A face vs face match featuring Jon Moxley against a midcarder with no mic skills
> 
> 2 lower tier tag team match
> 
> A title match with Jade against a jobber with a losing record
> 
> Darby Allin vs the third wheel of AEW's Undisputed Era


When you look at it, beyond just "match quality" it was:

* Predictable match.

* Squash.

* Predictable match.

* Interesting match, but late in the evening.

I know the hardcore AEW fans seem to be against DQ/Interference and rematches, but that's exactly what needs to be done to spice up such a card. If say Moxley lost or this ended in a DQ due to some JAS/NJPW stuff or a Dante turn (I know this would be silly with the upcoming title match), I'd be more interested in seeing such a lopsided matchup the next time it was booked.


----------



## Joe Gill

these horrific ratings dont surprise me one bit... no punk, no mjf, no bryan.... forbidden door where only a few hundred thousand super hardcore fans care about...no compelling storylines right now that are must see tv. They have ruined wardlows momentum. TK has done the unimaginable...just about every wrestler on the roster right now is either downtrending or stangnant. Everything since the last ppv has been a complete disaster...and it now reflects on plummeting ratings. The aew cheerleaders on this forum need to get out of their bubble and accept the fact that the majority of fans have no interest in following 20 clusterfuck groups and storylines. TK needs to shed half the roster and focus the show on the 5 or 6 biggest stars and easy to follow and compelling storylines like mjf vs punk or wordlow vs mjf. No one gives a fuck about 20 stables of mediocre wrestlers.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Joe Gill said:


> these horrific ratings dont surprise me one bit... no punk, no mjf, no bryan.... forbidden door where only a few hundred thousand super hardcore fans care about...no compelling storylines right now that are must see tv. They have ruined wardlows momentum. TK has done the unimaginable...just about every wrestler on the roster right now is either downtrending or stangnant. Everything since the last ppv has been a complete disaster...and it now reflects on plummeting ratings. The aew cheerleaders on this forum need to get out of their bubble and accept the fact that the majority of fans have no interest in following 20 clusterfuck groups and storylines. TK needs to shed half the roster and focus the show on the 5 or 6 biggest stars and easy to follow and compelling storylines like mjf vs punk or wordlow vs mjf. No one gives a fuck about 20 stables of mediocre wrestlers.



Yeah, unfortunately this "Forbidden Door" stuff has stifled any interesting story lines to bring in people that won't be around afterwards. MJF hasn't even been mentioned since the shoot promo unless I missed it. Wardlow looks like he's going for the TNT Title but the past few weeks have been filler leading up to that.


Hopefully after this weekend, AEW can do a hard reset and get back on track.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Yeah, unfortunately this "Forbidden Door" stuff has stifled any interesting story lines to bring in people that won't be around afterwards. MJF hasn't even been mentioned since the shoot promo unless I missed it. Wardlow looks like he's going for the TNT Title but the past few weeks have been filler leading up to that.
> 
> 
> Hopefully after this weekend, AEW can do a hard reset and get back on track.



Tony has panicked and announced bryan for this Wednesday, let's see how that works out.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

GarpTheFist said:


> Tony has panicked and announced bryan for this Wednesday, let's see how that works out.



I assumed Danielson would be involved in the show anyways unless he is still having concussion issues.


----------



## One Shed

They never should have launched a second show without really establishing themselves as a brand. They put it in the Friday night death slot and no Rampage has felt must watch since the first few with Punk. I have not watched Rampage in months and never feel like I have missed any story's development or important thing that I need to go back and watch once I hear about it. It could function as the fun match show with Dynamite being the character and storyline driving show, but no, just more matches and debuts of people 12 people and DC knows.

Please let Punk, Danielson, and MJF return soon and Miro to actually stay around and not get lost in any more voids. Can we trade the void Daniel Garcia and like 12 of his cookie cutter clones to keep Miro this time?


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> They never should have launched a second show without really establishing themselves as a brand. They put it in the Friday night death slot and no Rampage has felt must watch since the first few with Punk. I have not watched Rampage in months and never feel like I have missed any story's development or important thing that I need to go back and watch once I hear about it. It could function as the fun match show with Dynamite being the character and storyline driving show, but no, just more matches and debuts of people 12 people and DC knows.
> 
> Please let Punk, Danielson, and MJF return soon and Miro to actually stay around and not get lost in any more voids. Can we trade the void Daniel Garcia and like 12 of his cookie cutter clones to keep Miro this time?


Aw, can we please keep Daniel Garcia though? 

We can keep trade someone else that we both find (kinda) bland in favor of him


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Aw, can we please keep Daniel Garcia though?
> 
> We can keep trade someone else that we both find (kinda) bland in favor of him


I think he might be the most forgettable person in wrestling history. Not BAD, but he is just...there and with one of the most generic, forgettable names ever. He can literally be on the screen and when someone else starts talking, I forget he exists as a human within three seconds.

Someone we both find bland? (looks at roster) Scorpio Sky?


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> I think he might be the most forgettable person in wrestling history. Not BAD, but he is just...there and with one of the most generic, forgettable names ever. He can literally be on the screen and when someone else starts talking, I forget he exists as a human within three seconds.
> 
> Someone we both find bland? (looks at roster) Scorpio Sky?


How about Dante Martin then?


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> How about Dante Martin then?


What? You are not a fan of Dante?


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> What? You are not a fan of Dante?


Dante can be really fun/impressive in the ring; but he's bland as a singles guy, and he's better off teaming with his brother since he comes off as a filler opponent regardless.

They seemed to position him as 1 of the newer '4 Pillars' throughout late 2021; which would consist of Ricky Starks, Daniel Garcia, Wheeler Yuta, and Dante Martin.

However, his push has gradually cooled off right around the same time that Hook made his debut on Rampage last December.

My newer '4 Pillars' would be Starks, Yuta, Garcia, and Hook atm.

I don't dislike Dante at all since I appreciate his in-ring ability; but he'd be on my personal C-tier list atm.

I don't think he's ready to be pushed as a up-and-comer who's consistently near the upper card the same way that Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia are presented atm.

I think he's better off teaming with his brother once he eventually recovers from his injury so that they can get some more direction in the tag division.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Dante can be really fun/impressive in the ring; but he's bland as a singles guy, and he's better off teaming with his brother since he comes off as a filler opponent regardless.
> 
> They seemed to position him as 1 of the newer '4 Pillars' throughout late 2021; which would consist of Ricky Starks, Daniel Garcia, Wheeler Yuta, and Dante Martin.
> 
> However, his push has gradually cooled off right around the same time that Hook made his debut on Rampage last December.
> 
> My newer '4 Pillars' would be Starks, Yuta, Garcia, and Hook atm.
> 
> I don't dislike Dante at all since I appreciate his in-ring ability; but he'd be on my personal C-tier list atm.
> 
> I don't think he's ready to be pushed as a up-and-comer who's consistently near the upper card the same way that Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia are presented atm.
> 
> I think he's better off teaming with his brother once he eventually recovers from his injury so that they can get some more direction in the tag division.


I think Dante has a ton of potential and a bright future, but agree he is not ready for prime time yet. Keep him training and developing a personality. I would not throw him in the void like Garcia and Sky.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Darby’s momentum isn’t botched
> 
> he’s around the midcard / upper - where he currently should be
> 
> now granted, he should’ve beaten Jeff and he definitely should have beaten KOR
> 
> but the very nature of the guy is IMO ‘unburiable’ - he can win the TNT or AA title tomorrow and nobody will bat an eye


*You're half right because you're not acknowledging that two things can be true. Darby's momentum is derailed AND he can recover quickly. The two aren't mutually exclusive.*


----------



## .christopher.

GarpTheFist said:


> Tony has panicked and announced bryan for this Wednesday, let's see how that works out.


won't do shit, chief. Tony has killed any remaining star power Bryan had left with his nonsensical booking.


Two Sheds said:


> They never should have launched a second show without really establishing themselves as a brand. They put it in the Friday night death slot and no Rampage has felt must watch since the first few with Punk. I have not watched Rampage in months and never feel like I have missed any story's development or important thing that I need to go back and watch once I hear about it. It could function as the fun match show with Dynamite being the character and storyline driving show, but no, just more matches and debuts of people 12 people and DC knows.
> 
> Please let Punk, Danielson, and MJF return soon and Miro to actually stay around and not get lost in any more voids. Can we trade the void Daniel Garcia and like 12 of his cookie cutter clones to keep Miro this time?


I was wary about them creating a second show because they hadn't even produced a consistent product for Dynamite yet, and, lo and behold, it's absolute pants.


----------



## .christopher.

Also, @Hotdiggity11 is on a roll here


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*2nd worst rating ever for Dynamite
Worst rating ever for Rampage

Are y'all ready to admit the product is shit now, or just keep telling people to stop watching? Because it worked.*


----------



## DammitChrist

It's going to be pretty satisfying when ratings inevitably rise back up, and they continue what they're doing regardless (with no major changes hopefully); especially considering how truly good the product has been over the last several months.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> It's going to be pretty satisfying when ratings inevitably rise back up, and they continue what they're doing regardless (with no major changes hopefully); especially considering how truly good the product has been over the last several months.


What if they don't? I'm sure in 2019 people were saying the 1.5 million would eventually come back and it never did. Maybe AEW will never regularly do 900k again?

Tbh it is likely that they will but people won't stick with a product forever. Eventually there is a time where they say to themselves "I can't be bothered" and do something better.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *You're half right because you're not acknowledging that two things can be true. Darby's momentum is derailed AND he can recover quickly. The two aren't mutually exclusive.*


or i’m all right and two losses, while i disagree with them, did nothing to derail Darby

he was always getting his win back from Jeff if Jeff wasn’t a fuckup

and the KOR call was stupid, but ultimately harmless, as he and sting will now proceed to pummel ReDragon


----------



## izhack111

The Legit Lioness said:


> *2nd worst rating ever for Dynamite
> Worst rating ever for Rampage
> 
> Are y'all ready to admit the product is shit now, or just keep telling people to stop watching? Because it worked.*


They will tell us to google it LOL


----------



## zkorejo

AEW does something cool like MJF pipebomb. People tune in to watch next week but they drop a shit episode. This has happened quite a few times. Then the week it was actually good, but they get a bad rating. 

I dont know if it counts as that this time, as they still ended up #2 for the night. But it has happened in the past. 

Its still miles better than any other wrestling product so.. its not bad at all.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

izhack111 said:


> They will tell us to google it LOL


*Let these numbers continue and you WILL have to Google "how to watch AEW"*


----------



## Randy Lahey

Rampage is in a death time slot. No one is watching wrestling at 10pm on a Friday. If it was doing that number in an 8pm time slot then it’d be ripe for cancellation like NXT 2.0 is.

Unless TNT decides to change the time slot I doubt they care much what they put on in the late hours of Friday. Just like that show Fox Sports used to run that had Punk on it. Nobody cared what ratings it got bc to them it’s just filling programming hours in death spots.

What Tony Khan should do though is NEVER put anything better on Rampage that should be on Dynamite. Which ultimately should mean making Rampage a mostly womens show since no one is watching anyway. And making sure Dynamite gets the absolute best stuff on it (I.e no more womens segments, or heatless’s mens matches).


----------



## imscotthALLIN

Booker of the decade might need some help here.


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> Again, it's almost like the 2 months of nonstop time slot changes for almost every week crippled Rampage's viewership for the long-term.


Well those people are the casuals you don't want anyways. If people are curious enough about Rampage, they can Google to find the time. Maybe Rampage just isn't worth it except for a base of around 325k-425k people. Fuck the casuals.



> It's going to be pretty satisfying when ratings inevitably rise back up


This will be good. It's just a shame AEW has passed the point of reaching it's true potential. They had a chance back in Sept/Oct/Nov. The Hangman issue kinda fucked it all up.


----------



## Savage Elbow

Uncle Dave's probably super busy at the moment working out the rankings in the 27-32yo males who own more than one pair of Nike Airs & 25yo female hamster owners demos looking for a win


----------



## Fearless Viper

Their placement on the chart?


----------



## NathanMayberry

TD Stinger said:


> Rampage Ratings in the Mud, Ditch, Dirt, Earth, etc.
> 
> I think the thing with Rampage is that it often feels like Dynamite's Leftovers. That's pretty much what last week's show felt like, even with a Mox match. It didn't feel like a big show to go out of your way to see. It just felt like another hour of TV. A decent hour of TV, but nothing worthwhile. And I kind of get it. Rampage 8/10 times is taped and they want the more important stuff to happen on the live show. But in turn that makes Rampage feel less important.
> 
> People always mention changing timeslots but with WWE Competition and TK, and his dad, owning an NFL team, meaning they can't compete against the NFL, they're left with few options:
> 
> Sunday: That's NFL Day
> Monday: Monday Night Football and Raw
> Tuesday: Basketball Night for TNT
> Wednesday: Already have Dynamite
> Thursday: Basketball Night for TNT and Thursday Night Football
> Friday: Smackdown in prime time
> 
> Really the only other day they could use is Saturday.


Why the fuck does this trash keep getting repeated? The NFL doesn't give a fuck about AEW.. there are several NFL owners who own other sports franchises that play games on the same day as their NFL teams and y'all actually beleive the NFL is going to give a fuck about some show that gets 0.10? The Jaguars aren't even good. They don't even get prime time games on Sunday or Monday nights.


----------



## NathanMayberry

DammitChrist said:


> I think it's obvious at this point that frequently changing time slots every week for 2 months pretty much crippled them in the ratings.
> 
> I'd just move Rampage to Saturday evenings around 7 PM EST, and HOPE that they can go several months without being interrupted or kicked off for sports.
> 
> The 10 PM EST time slot is a pain in the ass for the most part since that's usually when most wrestling programs end.


Or its obvious that Tiny Kahn books bad wrestling shows and people don't want to watch

Funny how for years AEW fans told people who had issues with the product "well I enjoy it, stop watching it then" not realizing that they'd need these fans... go on tho Tiny, keep booking for an increasingly smaller niche group of sycophants who will never ever call you out.

Year over year ratings used to be the go to to "prove" AEW is growing. Y'all aren;'t doing that anymore. Now its all about the totally real "sell out" the Forbidden Door has. Meanwhile tickets are now going for $12 on the secondary market, AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door Tickets

Someone (aka Tiny himself) literally bought thousands of tickets and is losing tens of thousands of dollars out of the goodness of their heart to make Tiny look good. Seems so freaking legit


----------



## 3venflow

Fearless Viper said:


> Their placement on the chart?


22nd, which is 10-20 places higher than they would've been a week earlier with that demo. Rampage itself topped 0.24 (which last Friday's #1 did) twice this year, so I dunno what's going on with cable in the past week.


----------



## RapShepard

Despite the dick jacking people want to do about Rampage being the easiest hour of wrestling to watch, the truth is nobody wants to watch because it's inconsequential. In terms of wrestling show length sure, an hour is certainly easier than 2 or 3, but when that hour is full of pre recorded matches not worth a damn what's the point. Until AEW treats Rampage like a legitimate show then it's destined to be treated like a slightly better Dark episode.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Darby’s momentum isn’t botched
> 
> he’s around the midcard / upper - where he currently should be
> 
> now granted, he should’ve beaten Jeff and he definitely should have beaten KOR
> 
> but the very nature of the guy is IMO ‘unburiable’ - he can win the TNT or AA title tomorrow and nobody will bat an eye


Now I definitely believe nobody is ever truly buried because wrestling is on going and things can be turned around.

But you're respectfully full of shit here. Darby went from a guy who was seemingly coming into his own when he finally won the TNT title off of Cody. To Sting's little buddy in random tag feuds with teams that aren't even leading to them being tag champs. Paling around with Sting has put Darby in a standstill and nobody wants to acknowledge it because "well at least Sting isn't losing to HHH or Rollins".




DammitChrist said:


> Huh, you mean the long-term booking that Vince used for Batista where it took nearly 3 years for him to finally turn on Triple H (only for the long build up/storyline to ACTUALLY work in the end)?
> 
> How about Vince waiting nearly 2 years to finally commit with a big push on John Cena around the main event scene (where he started getting super over within the 2nd half of 2003)?


Nobody was asking for 2002, 2003, or even early 2004 Batista to be a singles star so why are you lying. 

As far as Cena he was actually built up "properly" according to how the IWC wants things. Did the low card thing. Did the midcard thing. Then became a main eventers.





Randy Lahey said:


> Rampage is in a death time slot. No one is watching wrestling at 10pm on a Friday. If it was doing that number in an 8pm time slot then it’d be ripe for cancellation like NXT 2.0 is.
> 
> Unless TNT decides to change the time slot I doubt they care much what they put on in the late hours of Friday. Just like that show Fox Sports used to run that had Punk on it. Nobody cared what ratings it got bc to them it’s just filling programming hours in death spots.
> 
> What Tony Khan should do though is NEVER put anything better on Rampage that should be on Dynamite. Which ultimately should mean making Rampage a mostly womens show since no one is watching anyway. And making sure Dynamite gets the absolute best stuff on it (I.e no more womens segments, or heatless’s mens matches).


This is all horse shit because it normally doesn't do nearly this bad. The excuse train has to stop every time AEW shits the bed. The reality is we all know Rampage is skippable. Pretending that the AEW core of "real wrestling fans" is out partying it up and enjoying the night life in their city, on Friday is laughable as fuck. They don't watch because they know nothing of note rarely happens on Rampage. Until Rampage consistently has real consequences it will be treated like the missable show it is.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Now I definitely believe nobody is ever truly buried because wrestling is on going and things can be turned around.
> 
> But you're respectfully full of shit here. Darby went from a guy who was seemingly coming into his own when he finally won the TNT title off of Cody. To Sting's little buddy in random tag feuds with teams that aren't even leading to them being tag champs. Paling around with Sting has put Darby in a standstill and nobody wants to acknowledge it because "well at least Sting isn't losing to HHH or Rollins".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody was asking for 2002, 2003, or even early 2004 Batista to be a singles star so why are you lying.
> 
> As far as Cena he was actually built up "properly" according to how the IWC wants things. Did the low card thing. Did the midcard thing. Then became a main eventers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is all horse shit because it normally doesn't do nearly this bad. The excuse train has to stop every time AEW shits the bed. The reality is we all know Rampage is skippable. Pretending that the AEW core of "real wrestling fans" is out partying it up and enjoying the night life in their city, on Friday is laughable as fuck. They don't watch because they know nothing of note rarely happens on Rampage. Until Rampage consistently has real consequences it will be treated like the missable show it is.


i take your 'respectfully full of shit' and i rub it on my balls

then i throw it back in your face and force you to sniff it


----------



## Jaxon

ouch not a good week at all ratings wise, i do just wish that when it is this bad (it is) people just say yeah that is bad. and when they go back up(it will) people say fair play on getting people back.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539257719764418562

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539257266028806146


----------



## GarpTheFist

Jaxon said:


> ouch not a good week at all ratings wise, i do just wish that when it is this bad (it is) people just say yeah that is bad. and when they go back up(it will) people say fair play on getting people back.


I've seen many of the aew critics give credit to aew whenever it gets a good or decent rating but can't say the same about the aew defenders, they always have to make some kind ot excuse whenever they get a bad rating.


----------



## DammitChrist

Jaxon said:


> ouch not a good week at all ratings wise, i do just wish that when it is this bad (it is) people just say yeah that is bad. and when they go back up(it will) people say fair play on getting people back.





GarpTheFist said:


> I've seen many of the aew critics give credit to aew whenever it gets a good or decent rating but can't say the same about the aew defenders, they always have to make some kind ot excuse whenever they get a bad rating.


Nah, we consistently give valid reasons for the ratings each week, and we don't even give any 'excuses' either. Our explanations are genuinely fair.

There's going to be silence once again once the ratings inevitably rise back up (from the weird anomaly) where wrestling fans will be vindicated and proven right.


----------



## Mr316

GarpTheFist said:


> I've seen many of the aew critics give credit to aew whenever it gets a good or decent rating but can't say the same about the aew defenders, they always have to make some kind ot excuse whenever they get a bad rating.


Thank you brother.


----------



## 3venflow

Here's a good chart that shows, in proper context (vs. other shows in the industry), how Dynamite and Rampage are faring.

Dynamite continues to do very well by being pretty much permanently in the cable top ten.

Rampage has shown clear signs of decline though, and needs a boost. Considering Dynamite's success, the secondary show should at least be top 15 at all times, especially on Friday night when not much is on cable.


----------



## midgetlover69

Embarrassing lol

The writing is on the wall for aew. They have 0 momentum. The only thing they have going for them is being on tbs. If they ever lose that deal then aew is pretty much done


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Hotdiggity11 said:


> My "whole gimmick?" I've been on this forum almost a decade longer than you dude. What, did I make this profile in anticipation for AEW's creation 13 years later? LOL, please.
> 
> It's just a fact that almost every post I see [Not just mine] on this forum that is even a hint of criticism of AEW usually has your eye rolling emoticon. We're all talking about Rampage's current rating and you are bringing up a rating from October of 2021. You have an excuse for anything that doesn't show the company in a perfect light. It's hilarious.


The eyeroll reaches every nook and cranny of this site he even drops them in the WWE sections. It's amazing. I think they even get dropped in the WOW section.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

MonkasaurusRex said:


> The eyeroll reaches every nook and cranny of this site he even drops them in the WWE sections. It's amazing. *I think they even get dropped in the WOW section.*



Damn, I've been here forever and I think I accidentally dropped by that section one time. Saw it was just mostly a bunch of dudes drooling over women out of their league. Haven't been there since lol.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Damn, I've been here forever and I think I accidentally dropped by that section one time. Saw it was just mostly a bunch of dudes drooling over women out of their league. Haven't been there since lol.


Makes perfect sense.


----------



## RainmakerV2

RAW just did 2 mil against the Stanley Cup. No excuses.


----------



## CovidFan

RapShepard said:


> Despite the dick jacking people want to do about Rampage being the easiest hour of wrestling to watch, the truth is nobody wants to watch because it's inconsequential. In terms of wrestling show length sure, an hour is certainly easier than 2 or 3, but when that hour is full of pre recorded matches not worth a damn what's the point. Until AEW treats Rampage like a legitimate show then it's destined to be treated like a slightly better Dark episode.


This misses the mark pretty hard. It's not always prerecorded and there are consequential things that happen and things that they do to try to drive interest. Ospreay's debut and some TNT title defenses are easy to name off the top of my head that happened recently and I'm sure some other shit's happened.

The prerecorded thing is a weird thing to mention to because WWE usually doesn't suffer in the ratings from when spoilers get out so I wouldn't give AEW that excuse, either. People miss the show because while some stuff does happen on there, it's clearly the B-show and it's pretty late. And of course DC is correct about the time changes being annoying for people, too.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Miz & Mrs. on USA Network at 11:02pm: 587,000 viewers P18-49: 0.20 



Miz and Maryse at 11PM on a Monday significantly outdrawing Rampage. :O


----------



## RainmakerV2

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Miz & Mrs. on USA Network at 11:02pm: 587,000 viewers P18-49: 0.20
> 
> 
> 
> Miz and Maryse at 11PM on a Monday significantly outdrawing Rampage. :O



"Nobody watches TV that late! Don't you know all the hardcore AEW fans are out getting all the puss that late?" Pfttt


----------



## DammitChrist

How are Monday nights (worknights) even comparable to Friday nights (weekend time)?


----------



## Randy Lahey

I think the main problem with Rampage is it’s presentation relative to other wrestling shows.

Raw is a live 3 hour show (8-11)
NXT is a live 2 hour show (8-10)
Dynamite is a live 2 hour show (8-10)
Smackdown is a live 2 hour show (8-10)
Rampage is a taped 1 hour show (10-11)

if you want to make Rampage a show that draws good ratings, it needs to be a live 2 hour show in primetime like the others. Otherwise it comes as a missable Sunday Night Heat style show


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Rampage gets outdrawn Maryse's titties.*









__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538935508595789824


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> How are Monday nights (worknights) even comparable to Friday nights (weekend time)?




Great point. By 11pm on a Monday, even most adults are asleep. On the other hand, plenty of adults are usually still awake at 10pm on a Friday. You'd think the AEW fanbase would be coming through for them since they are supposedly part of that all-important demo. We already know millions of people were still around to watch Roman/Riddle that ended right before Rampage began.


In other words, the point you were trying to make is actually making Rampage look worse.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Great point. By 11pm on a Monday, even most adults are asleep. On the other hand, plenty of adults are usually still awake at 10pm on a Friday. You'd think the AEW fanbase would be coming through for them since they are supposedly part of that all-important demo. We already know millions of people were still around to watch Roman/Riddle that ended right before Rampage began.
> 
> 
> In other words, the point you were trying to make is actually making Rampage look worse.


I like how you selectively chose 1 of the multiple valid points I made regarding the ratings, but yet you continue to ignore how Rampage's viewership has been crippled by outside factors beyond their control for approximately 2 months nonstop in order to continue your inaccurate assumptions; but hey, why rationalize the whole context when you can use selective attention to something irrelevant instead


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> I like how you selectively chose 1 of the multiple valid points I made regarding the ratings, but yet you continue to ignore how Rampage's viewership has been crippled by outside factors beyond their control for approximately 2 months nonstop in order to continue your inaccurate assumptions; but hey, why rationalize the whole context when you can use selective attention to something irrelevant instead




According to various AEW fans here, all you have to do is Google the information. So, all the "real" AEW fans will always know when Rampage is on and who cares about the casuals who get disparaged here all the time?


Fact is, around 2 million people watched the end of Smackdown but didn't bother switching over to Rampage. Excuses are opinionated, the actual numbers are telling us Dynamite and Rampage are struggling at the moment to maintain a consistently good viewership. All the copium in the world can't change data.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Oh no, punk is going to hate miz more now for being a bigger draw 😂😂


----------



## Hotdiggity11

GarpTheFist said:


> Oh no, punk is going to hate miz more now for being a bigger draw 😂😂




Say goodbye to the good old days
They're never coming back, watch your future fade


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> According to various AEW fans here, all you have to do is Google the information. So, all the "real" AEW fans will always know when Rampage is on and who cares about the casuals who get disparaged here all the time?


Huh, I guess you missed a couple of my posts weeks ago where I admitted on here that Rampage has been tough for even me to keep track (despite never missing 1 episode) because they've shifted their time slots for 2 months.

You're underestimating how often people can still mistake one time slot for another. Even I thought the Wrestlemania 38 pre-show (on Night 1) started at 5 PM EST instead of 6 PM EST despite *googling *the start time days and even hours beforehand.




> Fact is, around 2 million people watched the end of Smackdown but didn't bother switching over to Rampage. Excuses are opinionated, the actual numbers are telling us Dynamite and Rampage are struggling at the moment to maintain a consistently good viewership. All the copium in the world can't change data.


No, I'm giving valid explanations. I've yet to give a single 'excuse' since I'm being fair regarding the ratings.

Anyway, we'll get back to you when they inevitably rise up in the ratings big time where you'll continue to ignore and refuse to acknowledging their ongoing success


----------



## DammitChrist

GarpTheFist said:


> Oh no, punk is going to hate miz more now for being a bigger draw 😂😂


CM Punk actually sold out an entire arena last August without even being advertised beforehand 😂

That automatically makes him the bigger (drawing) star.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> Huh, I guess you missed a couple of my posts weeks ago where I admitted on here that Rampage has been tough for even me to keep track (despite never missing 1 episode) because they've shifted their time slots for 2 months.
> 
> You're underestimating how often people can still mistake one time slot for another. Even I thought the Wrestlemania 38 pre-show (on Night 1) started at 5 PM EST instead of 6 PM EST despite *googling *the start time days and even hours beforehand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'm giving valid explanations. I've yet to give a single 'excuse' since I'm being fair regarding the ratings.
> 
> Anyway, we'll get back to you when they inevitably rise up in the ratings big time where you'll continue to ignore and refuse to acknowledging their ongoing success




lol. Define "inevitably rise up in the ratings." No shit they will probably be going up from the record or near-record lows they are currently experiencing. Khan would have to start pressing the "Panic" button at rapid speed if he had a lower viewership this week than he did last week for Dynamite.

I remember when 1 million was the baseline for AEW Dynamite. So far, they've only hit over 1 million 6 times this year and none of those have been since late March. Even the Dynamite that had CM Punk as the new AEW Champion and had MJF advertised after all the controversy that occurred the previous weekend couldn't get a consistent million viewers. I also remember when 500-600k for Rampage was being talked about as a good baseline for Dynamite and the show has only hit those numbers a few times this year. 

How much further are we gonna move the goalposts on what is considered a success this time?


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> lol. Define "inevitably rise up in the ratings." No shit they will probably be going up from the record or near-record lows they are currently experiencing. Khan would have to start pressing the "Panic" button at rapid speed if he had a lower viewership this week than he did last week for Dynamite.
> 
> I remember when 1 million was the baseline for AEW Dynamite. So far, they've only hit over 1 million 6 times this year and none of those have been since late March. Even the Dynamite that had CM Punk as the new AEW Champion and had MJF advertised after all the controversy that occurred the previous weekend couldn't get a consistent million viewers. I also remember when 500-600k for Rampage was being talked about as a good baseline for Dynamite and the show has only hit those numbers a few times this year.
> 
> *How much further are we gonna move the goalposts on what is considered a success this time?*


They can continue to draw consistently high ppv buyrates, sell out numerous arenas, maintain good ratings with the demographic numbers, go back to maintaining their near 1-million baseline, and continue to chart as one of the highest rated shows on cable; but yet you'll still be one of those moving the goalposts of them 'failing' no matter how well they do


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> They can continue to draw consistently high ppv buyrates, sell out numerous arenas, maintain good ratings with the demographic numbers, go back to maintaining their near 1-million baseline, and continue to chart as one of the highest rated shows on cable; but yet you'll still be one of those moving the goalposts of them 'failing' no matter how well they do



Fuking almost 75-year old Ric Flair can still sell out arenas. How about instead of worrying about how I'd react to them getting the numbers they were supposed to get, how about they actually do it first? Because so far in 2022, they have largely been inconsistent in getting 1 million for Dynamite and 500-600k for Rampage.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Fuking almost 75-year old Ric Flair can still sell out arenas. How about instead of worrying about how I'd react to them getting the numbers they were supposed to get, how about they actually do it first? Because so far in 2022, they have largely been inconsistent in getting 1 million for Dynamite and 500-600k for Rampage.


Nah, they don't need to prove anything since they've already shown that they're capable of doing good numbers often still


----------



## GarpTheFist

Alvarez says "he was given the impression that bryan may not be cleared to complete at forbidden door"
If true, it was definitely a panic movie because of the record low ratings. What's he even going to say if he's not cleared?


----------



## 3venflow

Another 10k+ crowd coming up right after Forbidden Door.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539412315434586114


----------



## GarpTheFist

That's impressive to get a 10k+ corwd for a dynamite. It does have a huge gimmick match but impressive nonetheless.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

GarpTheFist said:


> Alvarez says "he was given the impression that bryan may not be cleared to complete at forbidden door"
> If true, it was definitely a panic movie because of the record low ratings. What's he even going to say if he's not cleared?



It wouldn’t look good for Dynamite to advertise Danielson just for him to announce he can’t compete at the PPV. We’ll see.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> It wouldn’t look good for Dynamite to advertise Danielson just for him to announce he can’t compete at the PPV. We’ll see.


Yea, that's exactly why I think Bryan Danielson is medically cleared/recovered now.

If he was really unable to compete at Forbidden Door or even Blood & Guts, then they should've announced that last week instead of getting the audience's hopes up this close to the ppv.

I'm sure that Bryan is fine now to wrestle shortly.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> It wouldn’t look good for Dynamite to advertise Danielson just for him to announce he can’t compete at the PPV. We’ll see.


 just announcing he's getting away from BCC will be a big win. Not a big bryan guy but he's being wasted in the group, give him a singles push, that's what will get people watching.


----------



## Randy Lahey

All the big audience for Smackdown and small audience for Rampage means there is no crossover between WWE fans and AEW. None. 

And we already knew that given the tiny 50+ audience that watches AEW vs the gigantic 50+ that watch WWE relatively speaking.

Dynamite’s ratings are fine. As long as they stay either #1 or in that 0.35-0.45 range they will continue to be a great product for TBS. Remember what USA pays for Raw relative to what Turner pays for AEW. We will need to see if last Wed show was an anomaly given that it was the lowest TV audience for a Wed in like 6 years


----------



## Joe Gill

Randy Lahey said:


> All the big audience for Smackdown and small audience for Rampage means there is no crossover between WWE fans and AEW. None.
> 
> And we already knew that given the tiny 50+ audience that watches AEW vs the gigantic 50+ that watch WWE relatively speaking.
> 
> Dynamite’s ratings are fine. As long as they stay either #1 or in that 0.35-0.45 range they will continue to be a great product for TBS. Remember what USA pays for Raw relative to what Turner pays for AEW. We will need to see if last Wed show was an anomaly given that it was the lowest TV audience for a Wed in like 6 years


it was likely a perfect storm...partly due to less people watching tv for some reason...njpw crossover where most cusual fans dont give a shit, and viewers knew in advance mjf, cm punk and daniel bryan wouldnt be on the show, and the fact that since the last ppv the show is a giant clusterfuck right now with no engaging storylines other than warldow who was in one of the cringiest segments in aew history. Maybe when the njpw shit is over and when punk and mjf return they could get back in the 900k range, But for now TK is in damage control for the next while until he gets his shit together and starts building storylines that casual fans care about that are easy to follow.

It isnt just about beung number 1 or number 2 in ratings....total viewers matters since its a sign of a popular busines that can then sell more t shirts, tickets and ppvs. If you look at the viewers for shows like Dark,,,, they are also on a steady decline... from 800k when it first started...down to 600k,,, then 400k.... now its in the 300k range... and you cant blame that on cord cutting. AEW is slowly losing its casual audience but still remains strong with the hardcore audience. The question will eventually become can TK justify his expenses if there are only hardcore fans remaining?


----------



## the_flock

If Rampage drops another 100k viewers they will be able to start a new war against Impact.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

the_flock said:


> If Rampage drops another 100k viewers they will be able to start a new war against Impact.


Rampage has already destroyed Smackdown in the Friday Night Wars. Might as well move on to its next conquest.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Just remember all of these comments when TK makes an announcement or big match for getting Rampage ratings

cause the same people will go ‘lol, he’s doing this for ratings’

yeah, no shit


----------



## Hotdiggity11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Just remember all of these comments when TK makes an announcement or big match for getting Rampage ratings
> 
> cause the same people will go ‘lol, he’s doing this for ratings’
> 
> yeah, no shit


I’m fine with big announcements. Not as fine when they turn out to be underwhelming things like signing another former midcarder from WWE. Not really much of a big announcements unless you intentionally set your expectations low.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Just remember all of these comments when TK makes an announcement or big match for getting Rampage ratings
> 
> cause the same people will go ‘lol, he’s doing this for ratings’
> 
> yeah, no shit


Wealthy people exist for us to pelt petty insults at them even when they do right. Get with the program ya class traitor lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Wealthy people exist for us to pelt petty insults at them even when they do right. Get with the program ya class traitor lol


lol... what makes you think I am not wealthy - maybe I have jets and shit?

(i don't) XD XD


----------



## Fearless Viper

Wrestling Inc decided not put an article of Rampage rating but instead they decided to combine it with SmackDown article lol! That's not how they usually do! 








Did Vince McMahon Controversy Lead To Big WWE SmackDown Viewership?


Vince McMahon issued a short promo to open SmackDown and the numbers for the 6/17 episode showed it to be beneficial for Fox.




www.wrestlinginc.com


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol... what makes you think I am not wealthy - maybe I have jets and shit?
> 
> (i don't) XD XD


Well you're still class traitoring. You should be somewhere eating caviar and wagyu off some whores titties in Dubai.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Well you're still class traitoring. You should be somewhere eating caviar and wagyu off some whores titties in Dubai.


.... i've kinda done that before XD


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> .... i've kinda done that before XD


You beautiful scoundrel lol


----------



## Saintpat

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, that's exactly why I think Bryan Danielson is medically cleared/recovered now.
> 
> If he was really unable to compete at Forbidden Door or even Blood & Guts, then they should've announced that last week instead of getting the audience's hopes up this close to the ppv.
> 
> I'm sure that Bryan is fine now to wrestle shortly.


We’ll see but why would the announcement be about two shows and not just the NJPW crossover if he’s well? 

I’d just assume if someone is not injured or recovered for injury that they’re back … not for two specific shows … if he is cleared for Forbidden Door then obviously he’s cleared for the other one.


----------



## GarpTheFist

the_flock said:


> If Rampage drops another 100k viewers they will be able to start a new war against Impact.


I'm all for it, it'll be funny and also give me a reason to keep up with impact


----------



## DammitChrist

Saintpat said:


> We’ll see but why would the announcement be about two shows and not just the NJPW crossover if he’s well?
> 
> I’d just assume if someone is not injured or recovered for injury that they’re back … not for two specific shows … if he is cleared for Forbidden Door then obviously he’s cleared for the other one.


Assuming that Bryan Danielson is healthy (which I still think he is), he could just confirm that he’s joining Blood & Guts since he was never advertised beforehand.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Predictions on this week's Dynamite rating? Seems like several segments will probably be big turn-offs for casual viewers. I did enjoy Christian and Danielson though.


I'll be optimistic and say 865k.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dunno… 920?
0.36

2nd on the night
Maybe first


----------



## CovidFan

795k


----------



## Mr316

It was the go home show for the PPV. Anything under 850k would be a disaster.


----------



## theshape31

Mr316 said:


> It was the go home show for the PPV. Anything under 850k would be a disaster.


849,999 🌊☄🌪⚡


----------



## GarpTheFist

Mr316 said:


> It was the go home show for the PPV. Anything under 850k would be a disaster.



They advertised bryan and a heel Christian promo along with it being a go home show. I'd say anything under 900k would be a disappointment. But then again it could be further proof that aew has stripped bryan of his starpower with terrible booking if they don't do over 900k.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

3venflow said:


> Another 10k+ crowd coming up right after Forbidden Door.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539412315434586114


That's fantastic. New stage plz.


----------



## Chan Hung

It was way too New Japan heavy and it diluted what should have been a better show.

Edit: Last week they had 760,000. So, i'll go with a generous 780,000 overall viewership. If they go over 840,000 that would be considered very good considering what they had on last night. I guess we shall see.


----------



## Mister Sinister

720k is my call.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Anything under 800 would be..not good.


----------



## KrysRaw1

I'll say 725000. They'll likely get 830 though.


----------



## RapShepard

RapShepard said:


> 923k .32 demo


was my guess from live thread


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 878,000
18-49: 0.31

Number one on cable.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540063153538703364

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 878,000
> 18-49: 0.31
> 
> Number one on cable.


a rise, therefore a success, right?

that how it works?


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> a rise, therefore a success, right?
> 
> that how it works?



Eh its enough of a bounce back where it's no disaster but that demo is not great.


----------



## Mr316

Decent number for a pretty awful show.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 878,000
> 18-49: 0.31
> 
> Number one on cable.
> 
> View attachment 125956


there we go lads

number 1, cannot get better

Forbidden Door and x NJPW a massive success

100k more fans tuned in from last week

happy happy days, tale back all the bullshit everybody said

this house is clear


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> Eh its enough of a bounce back where it's no disaster but that demo is not great.


its number 1 bruv

demo is working out on the cumulative total watchers of the night

double the demo of the much vaunted NXTiddy that you all love as the best wwe show


----------



## Chan Hung

LifeInCattleClass said:


> a rise, therefore a success, right?
> 
> that how it works?


Success from their abysmal last week, yes i will give them that.

Success in general, no way. June 8 they had 939,000 viewers. And on June 1, 969,000. They are clearly struggling to get 900k. More evidence New Japan has been a failure.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 878,000
> 18-49: 0.31
> 
> Number one on cable.
> 
> View attachment 125956


If AEW and Real Housewives did a cross over it could be a huge demo success. They basically have an inverted audience that loves nonsense and scripted fights.


----------



## Sad Panda

RapShepard said:


> If AEW and Real Housewives did a cross over it could be a huge demo success. They basically have an inverted audience that loves nonsense and scripted fights.


AEW x Real Housewives? Eureka!


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its number 1 bruv
> 
> demo is working out on the cumulative total watchers of the night



Whats the goalpost? Being 1 or the actual number? If it's just being 1 then RAWs demo is fantastic every week and I'm told every week by certain people here that's it cratering and awful


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chan Hung said:


> Success from their abysmal last week, yes i will give them that.
> 
> Success in general, no way. June 8 they had 939,000 viewers. And on June 1, 969,000. They are clearly struggling to get 900k. More evidence New Japan has been a failure.


you know the difference in those 2 numbers is like 1 nielson box tv, right?

maybe 2

ratings and imaginary benchmarks are a joke

demo good, number on the chart good, all good


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> Whats the goalpost? Being 1 or the actual number? If it's just being 1 then RAWs demo is fantastic every week and I'm told every week by certain people here that's it cratering and awful


raw’s demo and position number is fantastic

anybody who says different is lying to you and themselves


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> raw’s demo and position number is fantastic
> 
> anybody who says different is lying to you and themselves




Hmmm. Won't tag em but I think we know


----------



## GarpTheFist

Decent number when compared to last week but it's still bad considering you had bryan being advertised, Christians promo, okada showing up anc a big main event. This should have done 900k.


----------



## KrysRaw1

878 is nothing to gloat about though . The standard keeps going lower on the boards as to what is good. Now some say that is a great rating. 
I bet if it was 820k some would say that is also a success 😆 

Its been a flop lets call it like it is. If youre in the 800ks there's nothing good about that rating. 👍


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> Hmmm. Won't tag em but I think we know


tag away, i’ll happily debate them alongside you xD


----------



## Sad Panda

LifeInCattleClass said:


> raw’s demo and position number is fantastic
> 
> anybody who says different is lying to you and themselves


Agreed. Anyone who thinks wrestling is somehow in a bad spot in todays landscape are off their rockers. WWE and AEW are here to stay. They are about as rock solid as you can get from episodic television, and the kicker is, they’re on every single week.


----------



## Chan Hung

RainmakerV2 said:


> Whats the goalpost? Being 1 or the actual number? If it's just being 1 then RAWs demo is fantastic every week and I'm told every week by certain people here that's it cratering and awful


The goalpost will change. The truth in reality is when is the last time they had 1 million and how long did they keep that million from week to week? That should be the standard to aim at. Not, wow congrats we did better than last week so we can celebrate right? LOL


----------



## fabi1982

Wasnt 40 the demo‘go‘to last year? Now we are happy with a 31 @LifeInCattleClass? And according to some people going into the „biggest and fastest selling“ ppv with a below 900k? Hmm..not so sure how we can twist that into a positive?


----------



## RapShepard

Sad Panda said:


> AEW x Real Housewives? Eureka!


Tay gets a drink thrown in her face, she hits the bitch with a chair. Good times lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Wasnt 40 the demo‘go‘to last year? Now we are happy with a 31 @LifeInCattleClass? And according to some people going into the „biggest and fastest selling“ ppv with a below 900k? Hmm..not so sure how we can twist that into a positive?


i don’t make the charts bro - you know how weighted averages work of a cumulative total

what is higher than number 1 is the real question?

more number 1?


----------



## One Shed

And again, the rating is usually a week behind the show quality.


----------



## RapShepard

fabi1982 said:


> Wasnt 40 the demo‘go‘to last year? Now we are happy with a 31 @LifeInCattleClass? And according to some people going into the „biggest and fastest selling“ ppv with a below 900k? Hmm..not so sure how we can twist that into a positive?


It's one of those things where at the end of the day they literally are successful and succeeding, number 1 is number 1. Though there's of course nothing wrong with discussing if they could, should, or can do better.


----------



## Sad Panda

RapShepard said:


> Tay gets a drink thrown in her face, she hits the bitch with a chair. Good times lol


Anna Jay and Jungle Boy double date with Tay and Sammy. Christian for whatever reason is their limo driver. Special appearance by Marko Stunt as the bus boy.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> It's one of those things where at the end of the day they literally are successful and succeeding, number 1 is number 1. Though there's of course nothing wrong with discussing if they could, should, or can do better.


more people watching Dynamite last night would do nothing to the number (i mean, people who were not watching tv at all)

if more people overall watched all of cable last night, their share of the total would be higher and their demo too

The total watchers of cable on the day plays a massive part in the calculation


----------



## RapShepard

Sad Panda said:


> Anna Jay and Jungle Boy double date with Tay and Sammy. Christian for whatever reason is their limo driver. Special appearance by Marko Stunt as the bus boy.


Oh I can see the "Since not getting re-signed by AEW I've fallen on hard times." Confessional from Marko now


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540068690628169729

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

^ Cable is undergoing a slow and drawn out death as more streaming options become available with shows that attract the cool kidz. Pro wrestling (minus Smackdown since it has the network deal) may eventually be better off on the big streaming platforms but maintaining a smaller presence on cable.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540068690628169729
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


so, they did better on a day where there was less overall viewers

double win babyyyy


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> ^ Cable is undergoing a slow and drawn out death as more streaming options become available with shows that attract the cool kidz. Pro wrestling (minus Smackdown since it has the network deal) may eventually be better off on the big streaming platforms but maintaining a smaller presence on cable.


nielson is supposedly releasing a new streaming x cable x on demand tracker in 2024 that tracks all the data of all households

should be interesting pictures then

a product that skews younger will have more streaming viewers

i always said, the real barometer we can trust today is butts in seats - we have 3 x prime time wrestling shows, filling 5k - 10k arenas every week (yes, more butts in seats than attitude era on average)

it astounds me that people think ‘nobody is watching this’ - (wwe and aew)


----------



## Mr316

You know cable is dead when a show that draws 800k is ranked #1.


----------



## Chan Hung

Mr316 said:


> You know cable is dead when a show that draws 800k is ranked #1.


Yep. It will be more clear in five years unless something major changes with cable. People are cutting cords since its a mere monopoly with Spectrum over here.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Terrible number. Nowhere near a million. 3 months and counting now since they got 1m viewers. 

The decline in total viewership is evident.


----------



## Chan Hung

Dark Emperor said:


> Terrible number. Nowhere near a million. 3 months and counting now since they got 1m viewers.
> 
> The decline in total viewership is evident.


Christian Cage said it right yesterday...people remember stories and passion, not flippy matches that are put on randomly that will be forgotten the day after. Stories like Moxley's debut, Cody vs his brother; MJF vs Wardlow are memorable. I do not honestly recall any Young Bucks match this entire time as memorable.They do so many mistakes in this company, it's a shame.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Dark Emperor said:


> Terrible number. Nowhere near a million. 3 months and counting now since they got 1m viewers.
> 
> The decline in total viewership is evident.



Do we think they'll ever get a million again this year unless they get a huge surprise or something? Maybe the mjf storyline can get them there this year?


----------



## Randy Lahey

0.31 is still low given the Raw number on Monday was way up, even NXT was way up. I think the New Japan stuff has soured some on the show.


----------



## Whoanma

So, was it a good or bad number? Each time I take a look at this thread I end up confused.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Predictions on this week's Dynamite rating? Seems like several segments will probably be big turn-offs for casual viewers. I did enjoy Christian and Danielson though.
> 
> 
> *I'll be optimistic and say 865k.*


Damn, so close!


----------



## Chan Hung

GarpTheFist said:


> Do we think they'll ever get a million again this year unless they get a huge surprise or something? Maybe the mjf storyline can get them there this year?


They can but it's on them. They really need to do some major shakeups with booking and engage fans with better stories. Even the Wardlow / Scorpio Sky thing has been a dud.


----------



## RLT1981

Chan Hung said:


> Yep. It will be more clear in five years unless something major changes with cable. People are cutting cords since its a mere monopoly with Spectrum over here.


only thing Spectum will be selling in 5 years is internet service unless they see the light and become a streaming company and ditch there cable packages.


----------



## DammitChrist

KrysRaw1 said:


> 878 is nothing to gloat about though . The standard keeps going lower on the boards as to what is good. Now some say that is a great rating.
> I bet if it was 820k some would say that is also a success 😆
> 
> *Its been a flop* lets call it like it is. If youre in the 800ks there's nothing good about that rating. 👍


Nah, Forbidden Door being sold out within 24 hours proves that the show, and NJPW isn't a flop at all


----------



## RLT1981

878 is terrible they better hope they can get some fans back with the MJF storyline and blood and guts if not this might be there new normal rating since alot of there fans did'n care for this new japan guys


----------



## RLT1981

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, Forbidden Door being sold out within 24 hours proves that the show, and NJPW isn't a flop at all


its great that it sold out for the diehards but still don't change the fact that it has ran alot of there tv viewers off and that should matter to in the long run.


----------



## .christopher.

They were doing better ratings before spending MILLIONS on Bryan and Punk lmao. Who would've thought they'd cock it up this much.


----------



## DammitChrist

Dark Emperor said:


> Terrible number. Nowhere near a million. 3 months and counting now since they got 1m viewers.
> 
> The decline in total viewership is evident.


Sure, they got a big boost in ratings here on a week (where overall viewership on cable last night was even *lower* compared to last week); but yea, their audience is 'declining' and the number is 'terrible' 😂



Chan Hung said:


> Christian Cage said it right yesterday...people remember stories and passion, not flippy matches that are put on randomly that will be forgotten the day after. Stories like Moxley's debut, Cody vs his brother; MJF vs Wardlow are memorable. I do not honestly recall any Young Bucks match this entire time as memorable.They do so many mistakes in this company, it's a shame.


Nah, you're definitely misinformed here (especially about the 'numerous mistakes'); especially due to the fact that the Steel Cage match with the Young Bucks vs Lucha Bros, Young Bucks vs Kenny Omega/Adam Page, Dax Harwood vs Will Ospreay, and Kenny Omega vs Pac vs Orange Cassidy are memorable gems that had plenty of 'flips/moves.'


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Whoanma said:


> So, was it a good or bad number? Each time I take a look at this thread I end up confused.


Here‘s a clue - its ranked 1

1 normally means the best


----------



## Dark Emperor

GarpTheFist said:


> Do we think they'll ever get a million again this year unless they get a huge surprise or something? Maybe the mjf storyline can get them there this year?


They'll get it at some point in next few months. But it will be few and far between compared to last year when it was regularly achieved and expected. 

They got over 1.3m for Bryan's debut 9 months ago. Surely we can all see the decline.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Next week will be up to 900k when this NJPW angle is finished.
Next Wednesday should be all about Mox, Christian and Wardlow.


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Here‘s a clue - its ranked 1
> 
> 1 normally means the best


It should be, but I’m reading it’s a terrible number and nothing to gloat about, so I’m understandably confused.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

Chan Hung said:


> Yep. It will be more clear in five years unless something major changes with cable. People are cutting cords since its a mere monopoly with Spectrum over here.


Yep and Spectrum price gouges at that


----------



## RLT1981

if blood and guts don't get them back to a million then they are not getting back there for awhile.


----------



## .christopher.

Whoanma said:


> It should be, but I’m reading it’s a terrible number and nothing to gloat about, so I’m understandably confused.


It's simple, brother. Before spending millions on Bryan and Punk, they were getting around and above 1 million the month or so before. After spending millions on them, they've lost hundreds of thousands of viewers and, like @Dark Emperor says above, haven't got a mil in about 3 months now.

that's bad


----------



## TD Stinger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540082646029635585
.10 to .12

LFG WADE


----------



## CovidFan

A nice little rebound from last week. Keep going up next week for B+G


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Wonder if there has been a rash of cord cutting beyond the usual in the last couple months since gas prices have jumped so drastically and has started to effect the price of a lot of things. They're number one on cable so that's good, but they are down from where they were a couple months back.

Has to be something going on with it seemingly effecting everyone on cable.


----------



## Geeee

I think we need TK to bribe an intern in return for sexual favors


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Geeee said:


> I think we need TK to bribe an intern in return for sexual favors


Coca Caine is the only girl Tony Khan needs.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Geeee said:


> I think we need TK to bribe an intern in return for sexual favors


Not sure Tony cares about females to do anything crazy like that. 

Vince character is the GOAT so he gets away with anything like a boss. He'll get confronted eventually on screen I hope lol. 

AEW will have to rush MJF back and hope for the best. Unfortunately Punk & Bryan (as much as I love him) did not draw much for ratings wise. 

So best case is catching fire with MJF which I have my doubts about.


----------



## Prosper

Solid rebound from last week, #1 on cable which is great but the demo should have been higher. I'm fine with todays' numbers. Last week was terrible though.

The build to All Out after Forbidden Door should hopefully get them to 950K - 1.2Mil a little more consistently. MJF should be back and hopefully Kenny Omega.

Moxley should be champion and he has proven to do pretty good numbers in the past.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Whoanma said:


> It should be, but I’m reading it’s a terrible number and nothing to gloat about, so I’m understandably confused.


lol, just follow your hart, head and all common sense in the world - you’ll get to the one true answer


----------



## Prosper

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Wonder if there has been a rash of cord cutting beyond the usual in the last couple months since gas prices have jumped so drastically and has started to effect the price of a lot of things. They're number one on cable so that's good, but they are down from where they were a couple months back.
> 
> Has to be something going on with it seemingly effecting everyone on cable.


Could be part of it. 99% of the time there is so much more going on in people's lives that effect their viewing habits over WF's consensus of "Tony Khan not booking the show how I think casuals want to see it"

A lot of the hardcores on here including myself can't watch live every week, what does that say about the less hardcore viewers?


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Here‘s a clue - its ranked 1
> 
> 1 normally means the best





.christopher. said:


> It's simple, brother. Before spending millions on Bryan and Punk, they were getting around and above 1 million the month or so before. After spending millions on them, they've lost hundreds of thousands of viewers and, like @Dark Emperor says above, haven't got a mil in about 3 months now.
> 
> that's bad





LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, just follow your hart, head and all common sense in the world - you’ll get to the one true answer


I’m starting to feel like


----------



## 3venflow

Topping the Nielsen charts is great whatever the situation. A 0.31 and finishing #1 is as good as a 0.35 and finishing #5, because you're still attracting the biggest percentage of the key demographic. The total viewership argument goes on, but while I'm seeing an acknowledgment of mass cord cutting, people still expect same day viewership to go up in the long-term. Which is kind of like expecting a movie in 50 cinemas to make as much money as it would do in 100 cinemas.

For those interested, this is the latest data on cable/cord-cutting I can find, covering January to March of this year. Top cable providers have 40.485m subscribers according to the chart at the link below - HBO/HBO Max, a potential streaming home for AEW, reached 48.6m U.S. subscribers in Q1 2022 (76.8m worldwide).

-

Leichtman Research Group, Inc. reported that the largest pay-TV providers in the U.S. including Comcast, Spectrum, DIRECTV, and others, lost about 1.45 million net video subscribers in Q1 2022.

That number includes both cable and satellite providers, as shown in the chart below.


Top cable providers had a net loss of about 825,000 video subscribers in 1Q 2022 – compared to a loss of about 780,000 subscribers in 1Q 2021
Other traditional pay-TV services had a net loss of about 625,000 subscribers in 1Q 2022 – compared to a loss of about 865,000 subscribers in 1Q 2021









Cable & Satellite Lost Around 1.45M Customers in Q1 2022 | Cord Cutters News


Leichtman Research Group, Inc. reported that the largest pay-TV providers in the U.S. including Comcast, Spectrum, DIRECTV, and others, lost about 1.45 million net video subscribers in Q1 2022. That number includes both cable and satellite providers, as shown in the chart below. Top cable...




www.cordcuttersnews.com


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Whoanma said:


> I’m starting to feel like


here is the clincher

ready?

the ratings don’t matter, like what you like, hate what you hate

it’ll be fine xD


----------



## The real Axel

900k is the new 1 million. RIP dubbalos.


----------



## Seafort

Chan Hung said:


> Success from their abysmal last week, yes i will give them that.
> 
> Success in general, no way. June 8 they had 939,000 viewers. And on June 1, 969,000. They are clearly struggling to get 900k. More evidence New Japan has been a failure.


The people who watch NJPW in the United States are already also watching AEW. That's not going to pull in new viewership; rather, it would ideally merely retain viewership.

But not all AEW viewers watch NJPW. Some of them are turning out when AEW is suddenly inundated with people that they are not familiar with, have no characters, and have no investment in.


----------



## iarwain

.christopher. said:


> They were doing better ratings before spending MILLIONS on Bryan and Punk lmao. Who would've thought they'd cock it up this much.


They've made Bryan feel unimportant, and Punk alienated fans by pushing his politics.
Personally, I like the New Japan stuff, but I could see why some fans wouldn't. People like to have a self contained show where they have a reference for who people are.


----------



## Irish Jet

iarwain said:


> They've made Bryan feel unimportant, *and Punk alienated fans by pushing his politics.*


lol Jesus.

I have many criticisms of AEW but this is laughable. God why are conservatives such fucking snowflakes?


----------



## CovidFan

Seriously. Nobody gives a shit about his politics except a few bitches who can't handle opposing opinions.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

I barely even think of Punk's politics while watching him. Much like I didn't care about Jaxson Ryker when he was in the WWE.


----------



## Sad Panda

TBS released a press release touting AEW’s Wednesday at #1.


*“TBS’ “AEW Dynamite” was Wednesday’s #1 cable program in 18-49 at 8pm. *

AEW: Dynamite on TBS delivered 411k among P18-49, up +13% vs. prior week. (Wednesday, June 22)


· Ranked #1 on cable for Wednesday among P18-49.

· P2+ was +15% (878k) and P18-34 was +35% (144k).


Last night’s “AEW: Dynamite” was live from Milwaukee, WI, with Jon Moxley and NJPW's Hiroshi Tanahashi teaming up to take on Chris Jericho and Lance Archer, Bryan Danielson addressing his future plans, Malakai Black and Penta Oscuro facing off in the final AEW All-Atlantic Championship Qualifying Match, Orange Cassidy joining Roppongi Vice to face Will Ospreay and Aussie Open, and Christian Cage sharing comments after his shocking betrayal of Jungle Boy.


Founded by CEO, GM and Head of Creative Tony Khan in 2019, AEW is headlined by CM Punk, Thunder Rosa, Bryan Danielson, Chris Jericho, Kenny Omega, The Young Bucks (Matt and Nick Jackson), Adam Cole, Sting, Jon Moxley, Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus, Jade Cargill, Dr. Britt Baker, Scorpio Sky, Hangman Page, Sammy Guevara, Matt Hardy, Samoa Joe, Swerve Strickland, Miro, Lucha Bros., PAC, MJF, Darby Allin, Nyla Rose, Red Velvet, Ruby Soho, Toni Storm, Hikaru Shida, Malakai Black, Andrade El Idolo, Christian Cage, Eddie Kingston, Ethan Page, Orange Cassidy, Ricky Starks, Powerhouse Hobbs, Lance Archer, Keith Lee and many more. For the first time in many years, AEW is offering an alternative to mainstream wrestling, with a roster of world-class talent that is injecting new spirit, freshness and energy into the industry. “AEW: Dynamite” airs every Wednesday from 8-10 p.m. ET on TBS and attracts the youngest wrestling audience on television.”

I also found it interesting that they made it clear to add that Dynamite attracts the youngest wrestling audience in wrestling. Maybe gives you a glimpse of what audience they’re trying to attract and maintain.


----------



## zkorejo

Oh no aew is ded. No one's watching. Everybodiez tuned out : (

JungleMom-JungleSisterReluctantFlippingOff.gif


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Hotdiggity11 said:


> It wouldn’t look good for Dynamite to advertise Danielson just for him to announce he can’t compete at the PPV. We’ll see.


*That's exactly what they did, yet still couldn't get 900k to watch the go home show to what SHOULD be their biggest PPV ever 😂😂😂😂😂.*




iarwain said:


> They've made Bryan feel unimportant, and Punk alienated fans by pushing his politics.
> 
> Personally, I like the New Japan stuff, but I could see why some fans wouldn't. People like to have a self contained show where they have a reference for who people are.


*Yeah, I'm sure the biggest draw in the company (that's been off TV for a month) saying women should be able to have body autonomy is the reason no one gives a FUCK about C list New Japan talent.*


----------



## DammitChrist

They gained 100K+ viewers this week on a night where overall viewership on cable was somehow even lower than last week, but yet it's somehow 'laughably awful' (even though the shift in misleading goalposts is what's truly hilarious) 😂 😂

Whenever they inevitably go back to 1+ million viewers, the new narrative will undoubtedly be how it's 'still not' 1.4 million viewers.

Their obvious success (with NJPW talents too) won't get acknowledged anyway.


----------



## zkorejo

DammitChrist said:


> They gained 100K+ viewers this week on a night where overall viewership on cable was somehow even lower than last week, but yet it's somehow 'laughably awful' (even though the change in misleading goalposts is what's truly hilarious) 😂 😂
> 
> Whenever they inevitably go back to 1+ million viewers, the new narrative will undoubtedly be how it's 'still not' 1.4 million viewers.
> 
> Their obvious success (with NJPW talents too) won't get acknowledged anyway.


If NJPW struck a deal with E instead. They would have been the MOST prestigious wrestling organization. 

The double standards are so obvious it's embarrassing to read. 

Last week all the people tuned out apparently because of NJPW guys showing up... So why did they tune back in again this week? Oh but yes ofcourse... Still below 1 million. So let's focus on that instead. And when it hits a million.. why isn't it 1.5 million.. it's fucking embarrassing to read some of you guys. 

It's not even concern trolling at this point. It's outright Trolling and it's somehow completely acceptable and okay here in this section by everyone.


----------



## GarpTheFist

I've noticed DC never gives the eyeroll to legit, hmm. Could it be? Is it possible that you can be saved from the wrath of the eyeroll if you become friends with him? Is that all i need to do, become friends with him? But will i need to be blindly defending aew if i do become friends with him? So many questions


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

zkorejo said:


> If NJPW struck a deal with E instead. They would have been the MOST prestigious wrestling organization.


*Literally no one said this when Nick Khan was in talks with New Japan last year.*



> The double standards are so obvious it's embarrassing to read.


*Yeah, it IS embarrassing to read you whine about double standards while quoting the guy who said Roman Reigns gaining 600,000 viewers week to week for Smackdown is a flop.*



> Last week all the people tuned out apparently because of NJPW guys showing up... So why did they tune back in again this week? Oh but yes ofcourse... Still below 1 million. So let's focus on that instead. And when it hits a million.. why isn't it 1.5 million.. it's fucking embarrassing to read some of you guys.


*They went from an all time low rating to a subpar number and you expect us to be impressed?*



> It's not even concern trolling at this point. It's outright Trolling and it's somehow completely acceptable and okay here in this section by everyone.


*Yes, because stating facts is trolling. Only in the AEW section is the truth offensive.*


----------



## zkorejo

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Literally no one said this when Nick Khan was in talks with New Japan last year.
> 
> 
> Yeah, it IS embarrassing to read you whine about double standards while quoting the guy who said Roman Reigns gaining 600,000 viewers week to week for Smackdown is a flop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They went from an all time low rating to a subpar number and you expect us to be impressed?
> 
> 
> Yes, because stating facts is trolling.*


The fact that Nick Khan approached NJPW and wanted to strike a deal in itself is evident enough of NJPW prestige and 50 year old history. It doesn't matter what a few people on internet says it is a fact.

I don't read smackdown ratings thread.. because I don't watch smackdown regularly. I don't watch smackdown regularly because I'm not a fan of it. It's that simple. I honestly have no idea what you meant here.

Terrible and subpar still ended up #2 and #1 last week and this week if I'm not mistaken. Dubbing it "terrible" and "subpar" is opinions, them being #2 and #1 is facts.

That's the problem, you're not impressed by AEW or 80% of anything it does. We get it. It's a shit show you don't like majority of, it's run by a drug riddled nerd moneymark you hate the guts of and there's probably no hope for it in your books. So why waste time on it? Please don't pull a chipperson with "because I care".


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

zkorejo said:


> The fact that Nick Khan approached NJPW and wanted to strike a deal in itself is evident enough of NJPW prestige and 50 year old history. It doesn't matter what a few people on internet says it is a fact.


*That's not what YOU said though, which is hilarious coming from the guy crying about moving goal posts and double standards. You said WE would be calling New Japan the most prestigious wrestling organization if they partnered with WWE. You were wrong. Hold the L.*



> Terrible and subpar still ended up #2 and #1 last week and this week if I'm not mistaken. Dubbing it "terrible" and "subpar" is opinions, them being #2 and #1 is facts.


*It's actually not an opinion when you're dealing with numbers and averages. It's definitely not up for debate when we have OVER A YEAR of statistical trends to suggest being below 900,000 viewers is subpar.*



> That's the problem, you're not impressed by AEW or 80% of anything it does. We get it. It's a shit show you don't like majority of, it's run by a drug riddled nerd moneymark you hate the guts of and there's probably no hope for it in your books. So why waste time on it? Please don't pull a chipperson with "because I care".


*Because there are a few wrestlers I enjoy as performers who are horribly utilized because Tony Khan would rather put bullshit on TV. If they didn't have Britt, Jade, Darby, and MJF's release is finalized, I would never watch this trash.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Forbidden Door being sold out, and this week's rating (which gained 100+ K viewers on a night that had an even lower audience watching on cable) still being up over last year's rating indicates that many more wrestling fans enjoy the product.


----------



## zkorejo

The Legit Lioness said:


> *That's not what YOU said though, which is hilarious coming from the guy crying about moving goal posts and double standards. You said WE would be calling New Japan the most prestigious wrestling organization if they partnered with WWE. You were wrong. Hold the L.
> 
> 
> It's actually not an opinion when you're dealing with numbers and averages. It's definitely not up for debate when we have OVER A YEAR of statistical trends to suggest being below 900,000 viewers is subpar.
> 
> 
> Because there are a few wrestlers I enjoy as performers who are horribly utilized because Tony Khan would rather put bullshit on TV. If they didn't have Britt, Jade, Darby, and MJF's release is finalized, I would never watch this trash.*


Hold the L for what? A presumption I made of WWE fans possibly championing NJPW if they made a deal with WWE instead? I'm not "whining" about anything. Moving goal posts isn't my problem with you or other posters either.

It's the clear hatred of the product and desperately wanting it to fail and celebrating everytime it dips in any way. It's really sad to see some people being genuinely happy for something taking a hit and possibly dying just because they don't like it.

Wasting all the time and energy on tearing something down they hate rather than building something up they believe in is something very very sad to watch.

You don't just quite get it.. do you? The viewership was down on Wednesday last week, this week it was down even further and AEW still managed to be #1 and pull a better number than last week without it's biggest stars. Feel free to call it subpar because I will keep calling it #1 of the night. Factually I'm the one who's correct here.

So Tony Khan did something right after all. Britt, Jade, MJF and Darby are all AEW made. Looking forward to a Tony Khan appreciation thread by you for bringing these 4 to your attention.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i don’t make the charts bro - you know how weighted averages work of a cumulative total
> 
> what is higher than number 1 is the real question?
> 
> more number 1?


I know that it doesnt help the show being better, but just think about all these „I dont care about the ratings“ people, when the station just decides to not give Khan more money with the new deal? Or even less? We both know he is working on a thin line here with all these investments in talent. Discussing ratings is not about „what should be better than no.1“, its more about „is this enough to keep Dynamite on the Wednesday prime time slot for 45m a year“.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

zkorejo said:


> Hold the L for what? A presumption I made of WWE fans possibly championing NJPW if they made a deal with WWE instead? I'm not "whining" about anything. Moving goal posts isn't my problem with you or other posters either.


*Keep digging the hole.*



> It's the clear hatred of the product and desperately wanting it to fail and celebrating everytime it dips in any way. It's really sad to see some people being genuinely happy for something taking a hit and possibly dying just because they don't like it.
> 
> Wasting all the time and energy on tearing something down they hate rather than building something up they believe in is something very very sad to watch.


*Ok, then don't watch it. Block me. It's a really simple fix, but you'd rather complain about complaints you don't have to read.*



> You don't just quite get it.. do you? The viewership was down on Wednesday last week, this week it was down even further and AEW still managed to be #1 and pull a better number than last week without it's biggest stars. Feel free to call it subpar because I will keep calling it #1 of the night. Factually I'm the one who's correct here.


*No, you aren't. Ratings are judged year to year across the board. AEW is doing significantly worse ratings than they were in their regular time slot last summer with MUCH less talent. Tony Khan spent MILLIONS on a bunch of ex WWE guys to lose 200,000 viewers in about 10 months. That's pathetic.*



> So Tony Khan did something right after all. Britt, Jade, MJF and Darby are all AEW made. Looking forward to a Tony Khan appreciation thread by you for bringing these 4 to your attention.


*You must've missed the "horribly utilized" part, but it's not surprising given your responses to other straight forward statements.*


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so, they did better on a day where there was less overall viewers
> 
> double win babyyyy


You can read, right?


----------



## GarpTheFist

"Don't watch it if you don't like it" 
Translation: i can't take valid criticism of the thing i like


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

GarpTheFist said:


> "Don't watch it if you don't like it"
> Translation: i can't take valid criticism of the thing i like


*And they're so oblivious that they don't understand people are actually taking their advice and not watching this garbage.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Yep, 'nobody' is watching even though the viewership increased by 100 K+ viewers on a night *with an even lower cable audience than last week's unusually low number*, and that they're still above last year's Dynamite rating too.

No-selling these facts isn't even surprising since that would mean agreeing that many wrestling fans genuinely find this fun product to be *good.*

Edit:

For the record, Tony Khan's investments (of millions) literally are paying off since his recent ppvs since All Out 2021 have been consistently very high, and Forbidden Door's financial success is looking to be an impressive one too


----------



## GarpTheFist

The Legit Lioness said:


> *And they're so oblivious that they don't understand people are actually taking their advice and not watching this garbage.*


I was actually going to say it but didn't bother with it because i knew someone will go "well they went up in the ratings this week didn't they?" As if anything under 900k is anything to celebrate. We went from hearing the signings of punk/bryan will mean easy 1.3-1.5m ratings each week to celebrating something under 900k. I bet some also said they'd beat raw like that tool jericho


----------



## zkorejo

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Keep digging the hole.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, then don't watch it. Block me. It's a really simple fix, but you'd rather complain about complaints you don't have to read.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you aren't. Ratings are judged year to year across the board. AEW is doing significantly worse ratings than they were in their regular time slot last summer with MUCH less talent. Tony Khan spent MILLIONS on a bunch of ex WWE guys to lose 200,000 viewers in about 10 months. That's pathetic.
> 
> 
> You must've missed the "horribly utilized" part, but it's not surprising given your responses to other straight forward statements.*


I'm not discussing the profit/loss statement of a privately owned company that has never shared any of it's data. All you have is ppv numbers and ratings and the network is happy, their last show was #1 on the charts for the night and they clearly can afford to keep signing biggest names on wrestling industry. Tony Khan is not losing money, that has been shared with public many times. And he expected it to not be profitable until after 5 years of it's inception if I'm not mistaken.

Why would I block you or anyone? I know a bad opinion when I read one and I know a bad intention when I see one. I enjoy calling people out on it, it's the part of the fun of discussion boards.

I just think this place would be do much better if there wasn't so much trolling happening openly. I love this place and have been reading/participating here for over a decade actively and long before that as a silent lurker. Aew hate just comes across as phony and forced for the most part and I'm just here pointing out that something like this is usually considered trolling. Atleast in most other forums I have also been a part of.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> I know that it doesnt help the show being better, but just think about all these „I dont care about the ratings“ people, when the station just decides to not give Khan more money with the new deal? Or even less? We both know he is working on a thin line here with all these investments in talent. Discussing ratings is not about „what should be better than no.1“, its more about „is this enough to keep Dynamite on the Wednesday prime time slot for 45m a year“.


when you discuss it in the context of “is the ratings enough to keep it alive’

which i agree is the most important context and the only discussion worth having

then IMO, being in the top 5 consistently means it has never been under threat

now, does it get more than its 45m per year rights fee?

that…. I am not too sure of.

so, it has to make profit from tickets and international rights, as US rights will make it breakeven at best

i can live with that - my interest is in them staying alive, not their ROI

what do you think?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> You can read, right?


i sometimes doubt it xD

where did i misread?


----------



## RogueSlayer

A show for nerds produced by nerds and that's reason why AEW will never ever grow their audience.

I wouldn't be shocked in two years time if both Rampage and Dynamite are off the air and become YouTube shows.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> when you discuss it in the context of “is the ratings enough to keep it alive’
> 
> which i agree is the most important context and the only discussion worth having
> 
> then IMO, being in the top 5 consistently means it has never been under threat
> 
> now, does it get more than its 45m per year rights fee?
> 
> that…. I am not too sure of.
> 
> so, it has to make profit from tickets and international rights, as US rights will make it breakeven at best
> 
> i can live with that - my interest is in them staying alive, not their ROI
> 
> what do you think?


All my discussion about ratings is mostly just „can they stay alive“ and I have doubt that constantly top 5 will keep them save, when you see that the tbbt reruns have better numbers and are probably cheaper with better advertisers. So the top5 argument never counts for me. All it takes is one exec who hates wrestling to get the boot.

But overall you are right they keep to maintain a positive revenue stream. Just not so sure when daddy Khan wants his investment back and with what interest. Not like he gave TK 200m for his birthday (or maybe he did).


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i sometimes doubt it xD
> 
> where did i misread?


It said „only original programming“, doesnt have mean that the overall number has to be lower than last week


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> All my discussion about ratings is mostly just „can they stay alive“ and I have doubt that constantly top 5 will keep them save, when you see that the tbbt reruns have better numbers and are probably cheaper with better advertisers. So the top5 argument never counts for me. All it takes is one exec who hates wrestling to get the boot.
> 
> But overall you are right they keep to maintain a positive revenue stream. Just not so sure when daddy Khan wants his investment back and with what interest. Not like he gave TK 200m for his birthday (or maybe he did).


i don’t see how its not enough. Tv can’t be reruns only - it’ll die quicker

and it is likely cheaper to produce / license than any of the other top 5

what does NBA or Real Housewives cost? Much more for sure

IMO, top 10 guarantees them life for the foreseeable future

execs aren’t like in the 90s, reality trash tv is king, wrestling won’t phase any of them


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> It said „only original programming“, doesnt have mean that the overall number has to be lower than last week


well, yeah

‘Of what we can measure’

that is really all we can talk about with any certainty, isn’t it?


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i don’t see how its not enough. Tv can’t be reruns only - it’ll die quicker
> 
> and it is likely cheaper to produce / license than any of the other top 5
> 
> what does NBA or Real Housewives cost? Much more for sure
> 
> IMO, top 10 guarantees them life for the foreseeable future
> 
> execs aren’t like in the 90s, reality trash tv is king, wrestling won’t phase any of them


You know what happend to the TNT 8pm timeslot, right? So dont tell me "much cheaper" is enough. They got the boot for hockey, a sport not doing anything in the ratings besides the semifinals/finals. This tells you how "save" AEW is with his cheap original programming.

And of course it will probably will go the TNA route and not just get cut, but how much do stars want to work for channel 98 at 11pm? Think the biggest asset for TK is the 8pm timeslot, and that is not set in stone as you saw with hockey.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, yeah
> 
> ‘Of what we can measure’
> 
> that is really all we can talk about with any certainty, isn’t it?


sorry I had to do that 

At the end I love discussing with you, because it really feels like discussing with a friend about a common topic


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> You know what happend to the TNT 8pm timeslot, right? So dont tell me "much cheaper" is enough. They got the boot for hockey, a sport not doing anything in the ratings besides the semifinals/finals. This tells you how "save" AEW is with his cheap original programming.
> 
> And of course it will probably will go the TNA route and not just get cut, but how much do stars want to work for channel 98 at 11pm? Think the biggest asset for TK is the 8pm timeslot, and that is not set in stone as you saw with hockey.


it was a lateral move though

now, if they get moved again for football or NFL or whatever, it’s understandable- wrestling will never compete with the value of live sports

but they won’t get moved for other original programming

IMO the timeslot is cemented until another sports license comes along, and you can’t do anything about that

and what is the worst that can happen? You lose CM Punk, Jericho, Danielson and Mox? Well, i am more interested in Darby, Jungle Bou etc anyway

it can be TNA 2.0, that doesn’t faze me personally


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> sorry I had to do that
> 
> At the end I love discussing with you, because it really feels like discussing with a friend about a common topic


lol, its cause that is what it is - we‘re debating something where we both have knowledge but no skin in the game

its a lot more fun xD

and who really cares anyway in the end, its just wrestling


----------



## Aedubya

-----Anything above 0.80 is ok, Anything above 0.85 is good, anything above 0.9 is v good , anything above 0.95 is brilliant , anything above 1.0 is outstanding-----

Good rating x #1 = VERY GOOD EVENINGS WORK FOR THE DUBYA!!


----------



## Hotdiggity11

zkorejo said:


> The fact that Nick Khan approached NJPW and wanted to strike a deal in itself is evident enough of NJPW prestige and 50 year old history. It doesn't matter what a few people on internet says it is a fact.



I 100% also can believe WWE would not use a foreign exchange agreement the same way as AEW has. They would probably be more like WCW in bringing in guys for extended programs or eventually full-time contracts instead of a 3-week clusterfuck. They could also probably throw some of the NIL athletes or NXT guys they aren't using over to Japan to do the same while they are progressing instead of just filling up the Performance Center.

The big issue isn't that AEW and NJPW partnered up. It was this buildup to the PPV which was very messy.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hotdiggity11 said:


> I 100% also can believe WWE would not use a foreign exchange agreement the same way as AEW has. They would probably be more like WCW in bringing in guys for extended programs or eventually full-time contracts instead of a 3-week clusterfuck. They could also probably throw some of the NIL athletes or NXT guys they aren't using over to Japan to do the same while they are progressing instead of just filling up the Performance Center.
> 
> The big issue isn't that AEW and NJPW partnered up. It was this buildup to the PPV which was very messy.


the buildup has been 2 years

everybody who is anybody knows about forbidden door


----------



## Hotdiggity11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the buildup has been 2 years
> 
> everybody who is anybody knows about forbidden door



I must have missed Tanahashi, Ospreay, Sabre, and some guy named Clark Connors on AEW television for the past 2 years.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hotdiggity11 said:


> I must have missed Tanahashi, Ospreay, Sabre, and some guy named Clark Connors on AEW television for the past 2 years.


but you got the concept, right?

you don’t need to know who Marrow is for 20 issues to understand The X-men


----------



## MrOrange100

Delete


----------



## Hotdiggity11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but you got the concept, right?
> 
> you don’t need to know who Marrow is for 20 issues to understand The X-men



But I wasn't commenting on the "concept." I was commenting on the buildup to the PPV. You know, series of matches, promos, and all that jazz.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hotdiggity11 said:


> But I wasn't commenting on the "concept." I was commenting on the buildup to the PPV. You know, series of matches, promos, and all that jazz.


fair enough, IMO the concept sells the PPV

since tix was sold out before 1 match was announced - but i get your point


----------



## Hotdiggity11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> fair enough, IMO the concept sells the PPV
> 
> *since tix was sold out before 1 match was announced* - but i get your point



I mean, Ric Flair's retirement basically did too lol.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hotdiggity11 said:


> I mean, Ric Flair's retirement basically did too lol.


yeah, no arguments there

which is why I say, the concept sells this, not the build to the matches

hence why a month of speed-build is ok, all things considered


----------



## zkorejo

Hotdiggity11 said:


> I 100% also can believe WWE would not use a foreign exchange agreement the same way as AEW has. They would probably be more like WCW in bringing in guys for extended programs or eventually full-time contracts instead of a 3-week clusterfuck. They could also probably throw some of the NIL athletes or NXT guys they aren't using over to Japan to do the same while they are progressing instead of just filling up the Performance Center.
> 
> The big issue isn't that AEW and NJPW partnered up. It was this buildup to the PPV which was very messy.





Hotdiggity11 said:


> I 100% also can believe WWE would not use a foreign exchange agreement the same way as AEW has. They would probably be more like WCW in bringing in guys for extended programs or eventually full-time contracts instead of a 3-week clusterfuck. They could also probably throw some of the NIL athletes or NXT guys they aren't using over to Japan to do the same while they are progressing instead of just filling up the Performance Center.
> 
> The big issue isn't that AEW and NJPW partnered up. It was this buildup to the PPV which was very messy.


Most matches had no build if you really think about it. Matches were announced and they all came out. Build could have been better sure. But the point I was calling out was that NJPW involvement caused the loss of viewers which is bullshit.


----------



## TD Stinger

The funny thing for me is that last week, even with a .28 rating, they were barely beat out for the #1 slot on Cable and it's like the sky was falling. Now this week they are barely #1 with a similar Demo and to some it's like a celebration, lol. It's why even last week I didn't take the rating that seriously because at the end of the day, they were still #2. And this week they were #1.

Now I'm sure they want to get that Demo number up. And yeah, the dreams of beating Raw on a consistent basis that some had in the recent past seems like a pipe dream at this point. But at the same time, I'm not really that worried going forward.


----------



## Geert Wilders

They will go back to 1 million when the forbidden door storyline is over, Omega and Punk are back.
But is that even a dub? They were doing a million without Punk and Omega. Seems like a downgrade in terms of their ratings.

Cord cutting etc yes but still. It means people are not willing to continue paying for cable to watch AEW. It suggests AEW is not must watch TV.


----------



## Kishido

Amazing number!!! Beat NXT bzw nearly 200k with their go home show! And they are Numero 1 as well in cable and demo! 

Now just sign Wyatt and get rid of NJWP and you will get 1.2 millions easilz


----------



## CovidFan

Geert Wilders said:


> Cord cutting etc yes but still. It means people are not willing to continue paying for cable to watch AEW. It suggests AEW is not must watch TV.


laughably hyperbolic.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Kishido said:


> Amazing number!!! Beat NXT bzw nearly 200k with their go home show! And they are Numero 1 as well in cable and demo!
> 
> Now just sign Wyatt and get rid of NJWP and you will get 1.2 millions easilz


*Yeah, the show with MILLIONS of dollars worth of EX WWE guys beat the developmental program full of college athletes and social media influencers by 200,000 viewers. The Forbidden Door build has been a ROARING success!*


----------



## Dr. Middy

Geert Wilders said:


> They will go back to 1 million when the forbidden door storyline is over, Omega and Punk are back.
> But is that even a dub? They were doing a million without Punk and Omega. Seems like a downgrade in terms of their ratings.
> 
> Cord cutting etc yes but still.* It means people are not willing to continue paying for cable to watch AEW. *It suggests AEW is not must watch TV.


Even if AEW was peak AE good every week, cable is incredibly expensive nowadays to just pay for it alone. A lot of most basic TV plans alone are like $50, and that doesn't include cable boxes and other fees. I know my parents pay over $100 for it (hopefully I can get them onto Sling or something one day).

It's much cheaper to just get a good internet plan and a couple streaming services.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Yeah, the show with MILLIONS of dollars worth of EX WWE guys beat the developmental program full of college athletes and social media influencers by 200,000 viewers. The Forbidden Door build has been a ROARING success!*


this is not what we expect from our over 40k comments customers sir, please… do better

on topic, NXT almost certainly with the performance centre and 1m coaches and 1m athletes cost in the same ballpark as AEW

what does the shareholder thingie say on the quarterly costs?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> this is not what we expect from our over 40k comments customers sir, please… do better
> 
> on topic, NXT almost certainly with the performance centre and 1m coaches and 1m athletes cost in the same ballpark as AEW
> 
> what does the shareholder thingie say on the quarterly costs?


*Yeah no. NXT wrestlers with no established name are on $30-50k contracts.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Yeah no. NXT wrestlers with no established name are on $30-50k contracts.*


the infrastructure isn’t

those coaches, facilities, daily training is not cheapo

and tv production is tv production - its gonna cost something

300 x 30k contracts is also like 9m already, and some will be on more


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the infrastructure isn’t
> 
> those coaches, facilities, daily training is not cheapo
> 
> and tv production is tv production - its gonna cost something
> 
> 300 x 30k contracts is also like 9m already, and some will be on more


*That's still significantly less than a bunch of I̶n̶t̶e̶r̶c̶h̶a̶n̶g̶e̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶j̶o̶b̶b̶e̶r̶s̶ "GAME CHANGERS" on 100k+ contracts.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *That's still significantly less than a bunch of interchangeable J̶o̶b̶b̶e̶r̶s̶ "GAME CHANGERS" on 100k+ contracts.*


there is no way to know for sure

especially not to use a word like significantly

i mean, do we think Liv Morgan gets paid more or less than lets say Jungle Boy - then just work from there

i would say AEW in total likely costs more, but if you take total cost and work it back to ‘spend per 0.01 rating’ i think you’ll find they most likely are close AF

that is my assumption, not fact


----------



## CovidFan

We know so little about their financials that it's really not even worth speculating about.



> *The Forbidden Door build has been a ROARING success!*


When I envisioned the FD stuff before it was a thing was a good card with some dream matches announced for ppv. There has been some good stuff on AEW tv but AEW wrestlers have so little time for tv that I think it's actually a significant mistake to feature NJPW on US tv. The people who buy FD aren't swayed by NJPW wrestlers on tv.


----------



## Outlaw91

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 300 x 30k contracts is also like 9m already, and some will be on more


LOL does a NXT wrestler really only make 30 K? Why would you even sign such a shit contract?


----------



## Geert Wilders

CovidFan said:


> laughably hyperbolic.


In what way? If it was unmissable, people would pay no? Not everyone knows about VPNs and using fite tv. 

Surely there’s basic cable packages that will allow you just to get TNT channels? I’m not based in America but here I can get very basic specific channels and pay only for those 

and are you saying 200k AEW viewers left cable roughly around the same time? To go from a million to 800k in a few months and blaming it solely cable cutting, losing Punk and Omega (when they were doing a million without them before) seems ridiculous to me.

The cause is the forbidden door.


----------



## CovidFan

Geert Wilders said:


> In what way?


....



Dr. Middy said:


> Even if AEW was peak AE good every week, cable is incredibly expensive nowadays to just pay for it alone. A lot of most basic TV plans alone are like $50, and that doesn't include cable boxes and other fees.
> 
> It's much cheaper to just get a good internet plan and a couple streaming services.


I just didn't want to type it out because I think you know it's incredibly hyperbolic. I watch AEW when I can. I don't have cable. I'm not buying cable for a single tv show and I'd think that's the overwhelming majority.



> and are you saying 200k AEW viewers left cable roughly around the same time? To go from a million to 800k in a few months and blaming it solely cable cutting, losing Punk and Omega (when they were doing a million without them before) seems ridiculous to me.


This is moving your goalpost. I responded to a post saying AEW was worth a cable subscription (which obviously nobody's doing).


----------



## Geert Wilders

CovidFan said:


> ....
> 
> I just didn't want to type it out because I think you know it's incredibly hyperbolic. I watch AEW when I can. I don't have cable. I'm not buying cable for a single tv show and I'd think that's the overwhelming majority.
> 
> This is moving your goalpost. I responded to a post saying AEW was worth a cable subscription (which obviously nobody's doing).


If AEW is not worth a cable subscription, then it is not unmissable 🤷

If you watch AEW without a cable or fite tv subscription, it means you're not contributing to their success.


----------



## CovidFan

Geert Wilders said:


> If AEW is not worth a cable subscription, then it is not unmissable


take your strawman elsewhere.



> If you watch AEW without a cable or fite tv subscription, it means you're not contributing to their success.


ok and? I never said I was. I just watch the product. I wouldn't pay for it. It's missable for me, if you will. Like I said, I watch when I can. I'm not a hardcore fan like DC or others here


----------



## Geert Wilders

CovidFan said:


> take your strawman elsewhere.
> 
> ok and? I never said I was. I just watch the product. I wouldn't pay for it. It's missable for me, if you will. Like I said, I watch when I can. I'm not a hardcore fan like DC or others here


lol there we go. you literally just said it's missable for you.

And we also know that there is at least 2 million people subscribed to cable who watch wrestling. These are the people TK should be trying to grab.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> there is no way to know for sure
> 
> especially not to use a word like significantly
> 
> i mean, do we think Liv Morgan gets paid more or less than lets say Jungle Boy - then just work from there
> 
> i would say AEW in total likely costs more, but if you take total cost and work it back to ‘spend per 0.01 rating’ i think you’ll find they most likely are close AF
> 
> that is my assumption, not fact


*I just think it's funny that you tried to throw in production costs and salaries for NXT like AEW has none 😂*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I just think it's funny that you tried to thrown in production costs and salaries for NXT like AEW has none 😂*


Not at all like none - c’mon

i said work total cost back to cost per 0.01 rating and you can compare apples with apples

i’m sure AEWs costs are massive

i’m sure NXT is not cheap either


----------



## RapShepard

zkorejo said:


> I'm not discussing the profit/loss statement of a privately owned company that has never shared any of it's data. All you have is ppv numbers and ratings and the network is happy, their last show was #1 on the charts for the night and they clearly can afford to keep signing biggest names on wrestling industry. Tony Khan is not losing money, that has been shared with public many times. And he expected it to not be profitable until after 5 years of it's inception if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> Why would I block you or anyone? I know a bad opinion when I read one and I know a bad intention when I see one. I enjoy calling people out on it, it's the part of the fun of discussion boards.
> 
> I just think this place would be do much better if there wasn't so much trolling happening openly. I love this place and have been reading/participating here for over a decade actively and long before that as a silent lurker. Aew hate just comes across as phony and forced for the most part and I'm just here pointing out that something like this is usually considered trolling. Atleast in most other forums I have also been a part of.


You've been on this forum over a decade. Which means for over a decade you've seen WWE get shit on relentlessly, so relentlessly that hoping Vince dies isn't uncommon. Despite their overwhelming business success, ratings success, and clear stay as the number 1 wrestling company, you've been fine with all the hate they get. 

But people saying that AEW getting under a million shouldn't be celebrated given the money and stars in the company is hate trolling? Get the fuck out with this thin skinned double standard shit. There's this weird thing where some of the AEW fans want them to be treated as both a juggernaut and an underdog. If it's positive AEW news or opinions AEW is a juggernaut changing the business. But if it's negative news or opinions, then it's just the plucky underdog with a billionaire owner who should get the kid gloves.


----------



## zkorejo

RapShepard said:


> You've been on this forum over a decade. Which means for over a decade you've seen WWE get shit on relentlessly, so relentlessly that hoping Vince dies isn't uncommon. Despite their overwhelming business success, ratings success, and clear stay as the number 1 wrestling company, you've been fine with all the hate they get.
> 
> But people saying that AEW getting under a million shouldn't be celebrated given the money and stars in the company is hate trolling? Get the fuck out with this thin skinned double standard shit. There's this weird thing where some of the AEW fans want them to be treated as both a juggernaut and an underdog. If it's positive AEW news or opinions AEW is a juggernaut changing the business. But if it's negative news or opinions, then it's just the plucky underdog with a billionaire owner who should get the kid gloves.


Yes I have seen tons of hate for Vince and WWE. However I have never seen the same few names on a mission to hate on everything Vince does, tweets, is reported over. I have seen tons of hate on WWE, I have never seen the haters not like a single damn thing about WWE.

That kind of resentment takes years to build, and funnily enough it's possible for someone to develop that sort of hate for Vince since WWE is 40 years old. Usually people hated WWE because it was a monopoly and a lot of people had nowhere else to go. It's just not realistic to hate a barely 3 year old product at the same intensity as a company that has been serving shit sandwiches for over a decade. But again..... it could be different for everybody.

However if you don't have a single fucking thing you can appreciate about a show but watch it every week regardless, even though you have other options (that apparently are better in your opinion), and then you decide to stay in the section and constantly hate on it day in and day out, picking up on every single little detail to dissect it and find something to hate on, then you're simply just a troll.

Oh and btw. People have always called out trolls in WWE section from what I remember and I believe lots of them were banned as well.

Edit:

Also how many times does the same thing needs to be repeated? I mean different usernames, same message. "It's not growing". I get it?.. guess what.. I dont fucking care. I enjoy it so let me enjoy the wrestling show that doesn't insult my intelligence atleast one week without reminding me how it's not growing and will die soon. 

It has been 3 years.. every week it's the same old bullshit argument.. and I think if haters knew what the fuck they actually were talking about... it should have died by now.

I don't think the hate is legit. The arguments are shit. I think it's not airing grievances, or complaining.. it's more about convincing others that the product sucks and no one should enjoy it. And then you see the same posters drooling over Vince's giant turd he drops every week on Mondays and Fridays and defend that garbage like it's fuckin Game of thrones season 4.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Yeah. Went up like most expected.


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> You've been on this forum over a decade. Which means for over a decade you've seen WWE get shit on relentlessly, so relentlessly that hoping Vince dies isn't uncommon. Despite their overwhelming business success, ratings success, and clear stay as the number 1 wrestling company, you've been fine with all the hate they get.
> 
> But people saying that AEW getting under a million shouldn't be celebrated given the money and stars in the company is hate trolling? Get the fuck out with this thin skinned double standard shit. There's this weird thing where some of the AEW fans want them to be treated as both a juggernaut and an underdog. If it's positive AEW news or opinions AEW is a juggernaut changing the business. But if it's negative news or opinions, then it's just the plucky underdog with a billionaire owner who should get the kid gloves.


Way to completely misinterpret his argument. There is no double-standard here at all.

The other ratings threads for WWE don’t get nearly as negatively scrutinized or pessimistic in hostile fashion compared to this one.

For the record, I’m supportive for Raw’s weekly ratings because that show is the only good WWE program on TV nowadays; so it deserves to get higher ratings.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

zkorejo said:


> Yes I have seen tons of hate for Vince and WWE. However I have never seen the same few names on a mission to hate on everything Vince does, tweets, is reported over. I have seen tons of hate on WWE, I have never seen the haters not like a single damn thing about WWE.
> 
> That kind of resentment takes years to build, and funnily enough it's possible for someone to develop that sort of hate for Vince since WWE is 40 years old. Usually people hated WWE because it was a monopoly and a lot of people had nowhere else to go. It's just not realistic to hate a barely 3 year old product at the same intensity as a company that has been serving shit sandwiches for over a decade. But again..... it could be different for everybody.
> 
> However if you don't have a single fucking thing you can appreciate about a show but watch it every week regardless, even though you have other options (that apparently are better in your opinion), and then you decide to stay in the section and constantly hate on it day in and day out, picking up on every single little detail to dissect it and find something to hate on, then you're simply just a troll.
> 
> Oh and btw. People have always called out trolls in WWE section from what I remember and I believe lots of them were banned as well.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Also how many times does the same thing needs to be repeated? I mean different usernames, same message. "It's not growing". I get it?.. guess what.. I dont fucking care. I enjoy it so let me enjoy the wrestling show that doesn't insult my intelligence atleast one week without reminding me how it's not growing and will die soon.
> 
> It has been 3 years.. every week it's the same old bullshit argument.. and I think if haters knew what the fuck they actually were talking about... it should have died by now.
> 
> I don't think the hate is legit. The arguments are shit. I think it's not airing grievances, or complaining.. it's more about convincing others that the product sucks and no one should enjoy it. And then you see the same posters drooling over Vince's giant turd he drops every week on Mondays and Fridays and defend that garbage like it's fuckin Game of thrones season 4.


so much truth here

some people want to treat a 3 year old and a 75 year old who both shit their pants the same

no, there are distinct fucking differences and realities xD


----------



## NathanMayberry

Forbidden Door tickets are now going for $3..









Seems legit 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I'd go out on a limb and say the salary of Punk, Danielson and Jericho tops the salaries for all of NXT. Could probably even cut one of those out and still be correct.



BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Wonder if there has been a rash of cord cutting beyond the usual in the last couple months since gas prices have jumped so drastically and has started to effect the price of a lot of things. They're number one on cable so that's good, but they are down from where they were a couple months back.
> 
> Has to be something going on with it seemingly effecting everyone on cable.


I got a good laugh out of this. Can't blame sport or major news? Must be the gas prices, people can't afford cable to watch AEW!



GarpTheFist said:


> I've noticed DC never gives the eyeroll to legit, hmm. Could it be? Is it possible that you can be saved from the wrath of the eyeroll if you become friends with him? Is that all i need to do, become friends with him? But will i need to be blindly defending aew if i do become friends with him? So many questions


Nah, he respects me and we are friendly but I still get a daily eyeroll.



NathanMayberry said:


> Forbidden Door tickets are now going for $3..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems legit
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Biggest event of the year.


----------



## RapShepard

zkorejo said:


> Yes I have seen tons of hate for Vince and WWE. However I have never seen the same few names on a mission to hate on everything Vince does, tweets, is reported over. I have seen tons of hate on WWE, I have never seen the haters not like a single damn thing about WWE.
> 
> That kind of resentment takes years to build, and funnily enough it's possible for someone to develop that sort of hate for Vince since WWE is 40 years old. Usually people hated WWE because it was a monopoly and a lot of people had nowhere else to go. It's just not realistic to hate a barely 3 year old product at the same intensity as a company that has been serving shit sandwiches for over a decade. But again..... it could be different for everybody.
> 
> However if you don't have a single fucking thing you can appreciate about a show but watch it every week regardless, even though you have other options (that apparently are better in your opinion), and then you decide to stay in the section and constantly hate on it day in and day out, picking up on every single little detail to dissect it and find something to hate on, then you're simply just a troll.
> 
> Oh and btw. People have always called out trolls in WWE section from what I remember and I believe lots of them were banned as well.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Also how many times does the same thing needs to be repeated? I mean different usernames, same message. "It's not growing". I get it?.. guess what.. I dont fucking care. I enjoy it so let me enjoy the wrestling show that doesn't insult my intelligence atleast one week without reminding me how it's not growing and will die soon.
> 
> It has been 3 years.. every week it's the same old bullshit argument.. and I think if haters knew what the fuck they actually were talking about... it should have died by now.
> 
> I don't think the hate is legit. The arguments are shit. I think it's not airing grievances, or complaining.. it's more about convincing others that the product sucks and no one should enjoy it. And then you see the same posters drooling over Vince's giant turd he drops every week on Mondays and Fridays and defend that garbage like it's fuckin Game of thrones season 4.


You're just flat out lying here. What's typically banned in the WWE section is shit like actual spam posters and folk over stepping boundaries replying to other users. But no people never got banned for consistently stating they can't stand the state of WWE. 

Hell when the WWE section was thriving to what it is now the general consensus in the section has typically leaned towards "what will they fuck up even worse tonight" or "what can I enjoy tonight, before they shortly fuck it up ". Negativity towards the WWE product is and has always been considered acceptable. That shit has been post weekly for over a decade and you're fine with it. 

A lot of AEW fans are just going to have to accept that despite being enjoyable, 3 years in that new car smell is starting to wear off to where people will get more comfortable with giving negative criticism unabashedly. You see it's coming given how the non-match portion of Hangman's title reign has been discussed, the total willingness to call the women's division and whatever Scorpio vs Sammy was misguided. The willingness to point out maybe they rely to heavily on surprise debuts. And even now folk admitting the Forbidden Door PPV could've been handled better isn't being treated as taboo to admit. 

You might as well get used to folk pointing out the flaws the perceive with AEW. The "but it's only 3 years old" shit isn't going to work much longer.


----------



## zkorejo

RapShepard said:


> You're just flat out lying here. What's typically banned in the WWE section is shit like actual spam posters and folk over stepping boundaries replying to other users. But no people never got banned for consistently stating they can't stand the state of WWE.
> 
> Hell when the WWE section was thriving to what it is now the general consensus in the section has typically leaned towards "what will they fuck up even worse tonight" or "what can I enjoy tonight, before they shortly fuck it up ". Negativity towards the WWE product is and has always been considered acceptable. That shit has been post weekly for over a decade and you're fine with it.
> 
> A lot of AEW fans are just going to have to accept that despite being enjoyable, 3 years in that new car smell is starting to wear off to where people will get more comfortable with giving negative criticism unabashedly. You see it's coming given how the non-match portion of Hangman's title reign has been discussed, the total willingness to call the women's division and whatever Scorpio vs Sammy was misguided. The willingness to point out maybe they rely to heavily on surprise debuts. And even now folk admitting the Forbidden Door PPV could've been handled better isn't being treated as taboo to admit.
> 
> You might as well get used to folk pointing out the flaws the perceive with AEW. The "but it's only 3 years old" shit isn't going to work much longer.


Never said AEW was perfect. Far from it. But it's no way near as bad as WWE. They make mistakes but it's not the same case as Vince being petty and stubborn with his shit booking. It is universally acceptable because Vince has proven time and time again he doesn't give a shit about what people want to watch. 

I can see why one hates Orange Cassidy but his presence on the card can be explained with "but he's over and sells shirts and gets tons of views on social media". But Shanky is dancing his ass off just to please that old bastard and you know it. 

AEW atleast tries, WWE has given up completely. If you can't see these differences, then you will never understand my point. 

Point is, you can't justify targeted hate on AEW by saying "but WWE gets hate too". Yes the honeymoon period is over certainly. I myself find disagreeing with alot that goes on in AEW now that the rose tinted glasses are off, but hating on everything it does consistently and finding holes in everything isn't "valid criticism". 

Celebrating the losses and desperately wanting to see a product fail and die is not "valid criticism", it's just frankly downright pathetic. 

I think I made my points very clear and now I feel like I'm paraphrasing myself and being repetitive. I am done with this conversation.


----------



## GarpTheFist

^ you also can't justify aew being good only in comparison to wwe, that's a terrible argument. Everytime anyone says they don't like something aew does, one of the biggest counter arguments is always the "well it's not as bad as wwe tho!" Compare aew to it's own standards and not what other promotions are doing. That's what genuine fans do who know how to point out a flaw in something they like and not blindly love everything they are being dished. I know of huge aew fans who have been saying for months that while aew is not terrible, it's no where near as great as it used to be. I've not seen them resort to the "it's not as bad as wwe" and neither should you. Take the current aew and tell me, is it as good as last year? The year before that?


----------



## Aedubya

The hurt, it's real


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Chip Chipperson said:


> I got a good laugh out of this. Can't blame sport or major news? Must be the gas prices, people can't afford cable to watch AEW!


If all of cable is hitting record lows multiple weeks in a row, then yeah it's a possibility something bigger is going on.


----------



## Mr316

Holy shit that’s embarrassing. 5$ tickets to go at Forbidden Door.


----------



## RapShepard

zkorejo said:


> Never said AEW was perfect. Far from it. But it's no way near as bad as WWE. They make mistakes but it's not the same case as Vince being petty and stubborn with his shit booking. It is universally acceptable because Vince has proven time and time again he doesn't give a shit about what people want to watch.
> 
> I can see why one hates Orange Cassidy but his presence on the card can be explained with "but he's over and sells shirts and gets tons of views on social media". But Shanky is dancing his ass off just to please that old bastard and you know it.


As if people are asking for Marina Schafir, the Indian with Jay Lethal, or Scorpio Sky 



> AEW atleast tries, WWE has given up completely. If you can't see these differences, then you will never understand my point.


Define try. They certainly don't try with the women's division. They certainly don't try to present champions in interesting stories. They certainly don't try to keep most hot behind their debut month. 



> Point is, you can't justify targeted hate on AEW by saying "but WWE gets hate too". Yes the honeymoon period is over certainly. I myself find disagreeing with alot that goes on in AEW now that the rose tinted glasses are off, but hating on everything it does consistently and finding holes in everything isn't "valid criticism".
> 
> Celebrating the losses and desperately wanting to see a product fail and die is not "valid criticism", it's just frankly downright pathetic.


So admittedly they have negatives you agree with. And admittedly you know folk shit on WWE incessantly for their negatives and believe that's fine. But with AEW it's not. 



> I think I made my points very clear and now I feel like I'm paraphrasing myself and being repetitive. I am done with this conversation.


Well yeah your point is very clear it's

"Well I like this thing better, so people being negative on it bothers me. Now being negative on this other thing I like less is cool though."


----------



## Outlaw91

RapShepard said:


> A lot of AEW fans are just going to have to accept that despite being enjoyable, 3 years in that new car smell is starting to wear off to where people will get more comfortable with giving negative criticism unabashedly.


My car is actually also the same age AEW is and I managed to keep the smell like it is still new


----------



## RapShepard

Outlaw91 said:


> My car is actually also the same age AEW is and I managed to keep the smell like it is still new


Well you need to stop cleaning your car so thoroughly before I call the police. Get a regular unexciting smelling car like the rest of us you jerk [emoji23]


----------



## Outlaw91

RapShepard said:


> Well you need to stop cleaning your car so thoroughly before I call the police. Get a regular unexciting smelling car like the rest of us you jerk [emoji23]


This helps a lot though. It says you can also use it at home but I assume it is for the case when you sleep in your car and call it home.


----------



## iarwain

Irish Jet said:


> I have many criticisms of AEW but this is laughable. God why are conservatives such fucking snowflakes?


I bet you would be the first person to complain if someone came out with a MAGA hat. Punk literally tweeted ''F white people". That's not offensive?


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541513672601878528

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hotdiggity11

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541513672601878528
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Another rough night for the "Friday Night Wars."


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Another rough night for the "Friday Night Wars."


*BUT TONY KHAN FUCKING WON THE FRIDAY NIGHT WARS, HOT DIGGITY! IT'S IN THE FUCKING COURT DOCUMENTS! FUCK! 😡😡😡*


----------



## Whoanma

The Legit Lioness said:


> *BUT TONY KHAN FUCKING WON THE FRIDAY NIGHT WARS, HOT DIGGITY! IT'S IN THE FUCKING COURT DOCUMENTS! FUCK! 😡😡😡*


----------



## Hotdiggity11

The Legit Lioness said:


> *BUT TONY KHAN FUCKING WON THE FRIDAY NIGHT WARS, HOT DIGGITY! IT'S IN THE FUCKING COURT DOCUMENTS! FUCK! 😡😡😡*



Lemme call Jerry McDevitt and get verification on this.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Tony sure is quiet these days about the friday night wars, i wonder why


----------



## Chan Hung

No wonder Tony doesn't flaunt Rampage on Twitter.


----------



## zkorejo

Whoanma said:


> View attachment 126355


----------



## Prosper

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541842643474423816
So 100K buys? Pretty good. If there weren't so many injuries, I'm guessing it would have been much higher.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prosper said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541842643474423816
> So 100K buys? Pretty good. If there weren't so many injuries, I'm guessing it would have been much higher.


i have a feeling number 2 next year will be bought a lot more, based off the quality of this one


----------



## Serpico Jones

Cokey T has to do something to get those Rampage numbers up. Otherwise the show’s headed for cancellation.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Dun dun dunnnnn


----------



## kentl

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i have a feeling number 2 next year will be bought a lot more, based off the quality of this one


Have they actually said it's gonna be an anaul event?


----------



## Aedubya

Guessing 0.93 for last night's Dynamite


----------



## 3venflow

1.023m
0.36 in the 18-49

Number one on cable by a distance.

These are the numbers BTW, not my prediction.


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> 1.023m
> 0.36 in the 18-49
> 
> Number one on cable by a distance.
> 
> These are the numbers BTW, not my prediction.


OHHHHHH HELL YEAHHHH!


----------



## CovidFan

That's reasonable.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

3venflow said:


> 1.023m
> 0.36 in the 18-49
> 
> Number one on cable by a distance.
> 
> These are the numbers BTW, not my prediction.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542599427118047233



For those wondering why I’m laughing , look at the number he tweeted out. It’s in the billions not millions lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RainmakerV2

That's about right.


----------



## RainmakerV2

War games drew some of the oldies in.


----------



## CovidFan

Was Adam Cole on the show last night? Asking for a friend


----------



## Whoanma

Jane, the draw.


----------



## Outlaw91

Good to see them back over 1 million, I hope they keep it this way.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Decent follow up to Forbidden Door. The only offensive part of the show was announcing another jobber battle royal for #1 contendership on Rampage.*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542601639206469639


----------



## DammitChrist

HA!

Dynamite *did* inevitably go back up to 1+ million viewers after all without making any major changes to their good booking.

This high number is with multiple top stars being absent in this episode; such as CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Kenny Omega, MJF, Adam Page, Adam Cole, Samoa Joe, ReDRagon (top tag team), Britt Baker, and Thunder Rosa.

Orange Cassidy and the Young Bucks were featured in this episode, which further proves that they aren't ratings killers.

Forbidden Door was a big success.

A good portion of wrestling fans care about NJPW talents.

Good wrestling/workrate definitely draws at this point.

The company is still continuing to grow their audience.

Fans were right.

This has been a great week for wrestling fans (*in spite* of the ongoing injury bug)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Good number. Hopefully we get quarters posted by Thurston on Twitter. I want to see if that second hour carried the show or was it a case of a super strong lead in?


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542602049036210176

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chelsea

Very happy for them. Congrats.


----------



## fabi1982

DammitChrist said:


> HA!
> 
> Dynamite *did* inevitably go back up to 1+ million viewers after all without making any major changes to their booking.
> 
> This high number is with multiple top stars being absent in this episode; such as CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Kenny Omega, Adam Page, Adam Cole, Samoa Joe, ReDRagon (top tag team), Britt Baker, and Thunder Rosa being on it.
> 
> Orange Cassidy and the Young Bucks were featured in this episode, which further proves that they aren't ratings killers.
> 
> Forbidden Door was a big success.
> 
> A good portion of wrestling fans care about NJPW talents.
> 
> Good wrestling/workrate definitely draws at this point.
> 
> The company is still continuing to grow their audience.
> 
> This has been a great week for wrestling fans (*in spite* of the ongoing injury bug)


Oh so we are ignoring the mediocre 0.36 demo and gloat about the viewership? Thats interesting


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

fabi1982 said:


> Oh so we are ignoring the mediocre 0.36 demo and gloat about the viewership? Thats interesting


*Or the fact that this is the first time in 3 MONTHS that they've hit a million 🤣

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542601825555304451*


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Now Tony Clown is back to thanking the fans for watching 😂

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542603003953385473*


----------



## DammitChrist

fabi1982 said:


> Oh so we are ignoring the mediocre 0.36 demo and gloat about the viewership? Thats interesting


I've always claimed that both of those aspects matter, so I'm not inconsistent here 

I'll happily take one good metric over the other; but ideally, they'd excel on both those metrics.

That still doesn't take away from this being a great week for them


----------



## fabi1982

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Now Tony Clown is back to thanking the fans for watching 😂
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542603003953385473*


TK the viewership god? Btw what was B/G last year?


----------



## Aedubya

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542602049036210176
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do they mean 1.6 ??

0.16 isn't very impressive in Canada surely?


----------



## Chan Hung

Ratings are in. Good over 1 million. I hope they can continue the over 1 million but the gimmick of B&G was what put them over. Likely next week they'll sit lower but hope they can sustain over 1 million.

Furthermore, let's just be honest and admit that the New Japan thing was a ratings failure on TV. It drove people away. This is not an opinion. The proof is evident in the ratings, that people do not care or want to see New Japan on national TV. AEW focusing on their on brand is what people really want and people came back to see AEW talent, not New Japan.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lemme guess, over 1m, great success

under 1m horrific failure

lol, no - its a 0.36 - not bad, could be better - they ideally need to reach 0.4

then again, they are number 1 on the night - and what is better than 1 when you get down to it


----------



## Joe Gill

If MJF is holding out for more money in real life he just lost some leverage with this bump in ratings


----------



## Dark Emperor

Nice rating. I've always said the viewership is what matters and i continue to believe so.

About time they got back to 1m+. 3 months is a long ass time.


----------



## DammitChrist

Tony Khan knowing how to book a good wrestling show confirmed.



Chan Hung said:


> Ratings are in. Good over 1 million. I hope they can continue the over 1 million but the gimmick of B&G was what put them over. Furthermore, let's just be honest and admit that the New Japan thing was a ratings failure. The ratings prove that people dont want to see New Japan. Thank you.


Nah, blaming the NJPW talents doesn't work here because they got a big increase in overall viewership last week on a night where the cable audience was somehow even lower than they were 2 weeks ago when Dynamite had that negative anomaly.

Plus, Forbidden Door turned out to be a big financial success; which further proves that the NJPW partnership is working out very well for them, and that a good portion of the wrestling audience cares about seeing these NJPW/Japanese talents.


----------



## Geert Wilders

So as expected, the unknown international wrestlers put the viewers off. Good to see that I was right and that it would bounce back immediately.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lemme guess, over 1m, great success
> 
> under 1m horrific failure
> 
> lol, no - its a 0.36 - not bad, could be better - they ideally need to reach 0.4
> 
> then again, they are number 1 on the night - and what is better than 1 when you get down to it


*AEW is no longer going out of business. I'm in the mud!*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Now Tony Clown is back to thanking the fans for watching 😂
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542603003953385473*


you want Tony to shit on their heads or something?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you want Tony to shit on their heads or something?


*Nah, I just need him to thank all 700,000 people who watched too! 😃*


----------



## KrysRaw1

Once the Japanese geeks left people came back. What a shock !


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lemme guess, over 1m, great success
> 
> under 1m horrific failure
> 
> lol, no - its a 0.36 - not bad, could be better - they ideally need to reach 0.4
> 
> then again, they are number 1 on the night - and what is better than 1 when you get down to it


Watching Stranger Things, 1 is basically last…I‘m confused


----------



## 3venflow

0.36 demo was a big share. Second place did 0.27.

They also finished fourth in female 18-49. I'll be interested to hear Dave's reaction as he thinks blood drives women off.


----------



## Mr316

The GENIUS strikes again! Tony fucking Khan!


----------



## Chelsea

Mr316 said:


> The GENIUS strikes again! Tony fucking Khan!


There you are! Babyface of the week!


----------



## Joe Gill

Geert Wilders said:


> So as expected, the unknown international wrestlers put the viewers off. Good to see that I was right and that it would bounce back immediately.


TK got lucky....he was playing with fire with the njpw shit....if that kept going for additional weeks who knows what would have happened.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Joe Gill said:


> TK got lucky....he was playing with fire with the njpw shit....if that kept going for additional weeks who knows what would have happened.


I think they would’ve returned eventually.

Hopefully it’s a learning point for him. Avoid any NJPW shit on dynamite and just have an exhibition PPV once a year like @Chip Chipperson put it. He will still make PPV money without affecting his weekly pocket money.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chelsea said:


> There you are! Babyface of the week!


*He has more turns than the Big Show.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Nah, I just need him to thank all 700,000 people who watched too! 😃*


i’m sure its in his ‘to-do’ list after he thanks 400k people for watching Rampage


----------



## CovidFan

Obviously this week was boosted by people waiting for the NJPW wrestlers to show up again.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Watching Stranger Things, 1 is basically last…I‘m confused


lol, which season are you watching?


----------



## Buhalovski

Next time when you have Forbidden door please instead of throwing random matches just make some proper storylines and you might have more than 700-800k viewers.


----------



## MEMS

The buzz from a successful Forbidden Door was a big boost. Good stuff. Now will there be a big drop off next week coming off an underwhelming Dynamite?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> 0.36 demo was a big share. Second place did 0.27.
> 
> They also finished fourth in female 18-49. I'll be interested to hear Dave's reaction as he thinks blood drives women off.


Dave is such a dumdum


----------



## Chan Hung

Geert Wilders said:


> I think they would’ve returned eventually.
> 
> Hopefully it’s a learning point for him. Avoid any NJPW shit on dynamite and just have an exhibition PPV once a year like @Chip Chipperson put it. He will still make PPV money without affecting his weekly pocket money.


Internally, AEW had pressure to receive a good ratings report; after the follow up of that 1 hour gimmick match.

The match itself gained enough viewership to keep people glued to the trainwreck chaos. 

Now the challenge is, Can AEW sustain most of the 1 million? They've had a hard time doing that and they need to figure out how to .


----------



## Chan Hung

MEMS said:


> The buzz from a successful Forbidden Door was a big boost. Good stuff. Now will there be a big drop off next week coming off an underwhelming Dynamite?


I think it was more about New Japan buzzing off. 

The buzz was the actual gimmick match. From what i gather, that is what trended moreso for AEW twitter yesterday, nothing to do with New Japan.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Buhalovski said:


> Next time when you have Forbidden door please instead of throwing random matches just make some proper storylines and you might have more than 700-800k viewers.


the thing is, there was stories. But those 200k+ viewers weren't interested or didnt' know enough.

@DammitChrist can laugh all he wants, but Dynamite should really be catering to the mass. hardcore fans or NJPW fans will watch the ppv regardless of the build.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, which season are you watching?


Just finished first part of the 4th, just in time for the second part tomorrow.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Just finished first part of the 4th, just in time for the second part tomorrow.


duuuude, isn’t s4 the best so far?

i’ve enjoyed it a lot more than s2 and s3 - both not bad, but nowhere close to s4


----------



## DammitChrist

Geert Wilders said:


> the thing is, there was stories. But those 200k+ viewers weren't interested or didnt' know enough.
> 
> [B]@DammitChrist can laugh all he wants, but Dynamite should really be catering to the mass. hardcore fans or NJPW fans will watch the ppv regardless of the build.[/B]


Nope, the NJPW talents are capable of maintaining or boosting up interest in the AEW shows.

Excluding or demoting them entirely would be a tremendous mistake. 

This week has already demonstrated that a big portion of wrestling fans want to see the NJPW talents compete too, and that featuring them over the last few weeks never killed the AEW audience at all.

The NJPW talents deserve to be showcased on Dynamite too whenever they're finally available.


----------



## bdon

Mr316 said:


> The GENIUS strikes again! Tony fucking Khan!


Never change, Paul. Haha


----------



## Araxen

I thought AEW was DYING. WTF


----------



## MEMS

Chan Hung said:


> I think it was more about New Japan buzzing off.
> 
> The buzz was the actual gimmick match. From what i gather, that is what trended moreso for AEW twitter yesterday, nothing to do with New Japan.


Of course it was trending on the day of. But there isn't a question a successful show leads to a boost in numbers. And that's what happened here.


----------



## DammitChrist

Araxen said:


> I thought AEW was DYING. WTF





Lenny Leonard said:


> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAh


Tee hee; they're still thriving


----------



## Geert Wilders

DammitChrist said:


> Nope, the NJPW talents are capable of maintaining or boosting up interest in the AEW shows.
> 
> Excluding or demoting them entirely would be a tremendous mistake.
> 
> *This week has already demonstrated that a big portion of wrestling fans want to see the NJPW talents compete too, and that featuring them over the last few weeks never killed the AEW audience at all.*
> 
> The NJPW talents deserve to be showcased on Dynamite too whenever they're finally available.


how tf did you come up with that? 

there were NO njpw wrestlers on the show this week. They went from 800k fans to 1 million in 1 week. And it' snot a coincidence that the forbidden door PPV is over. an odd 200k AEW fans returned to watch their favourite AEW wrestlers go at it.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> duuuude, isn’t s4 the best so far?
> 
> i’ve enjoyed it a lot more than s2 and s3 - both not bad, but nowhere close to s4


Yeah up until now I would say 1-4-2-3…and damn that twist in ep7…will binge all weekend 😂😂


----------



## DammitChrist

Geert Wilders said:


> how tf did you come up with that?
> 
> there were NO njpw wrestlers on the show this week. They went from 800k fans to 1 million in 1 week. And it' snot a coincidence that the forbidden door PPV is over. an odd 200k AEW fans returned to watch their favourite AEW wrestlers go at it.


They also got a boost in viewership WITH those NJPW guys being showcased last week on a night where the cable audience was even lower than the negative anomaly 2 weeks ago, and it was never confirmed beforehand that all of the NJPW talents would be gone after Forbidden Door (which is further proven by the fact that Hirooki Goto plus YOSHI-HASHI are still in the United States atm); so clearly, there's plenty of AEW fans that also care about those NJPW talents too.


----------



## Randy Lahey

This was an acceptable rating. They should never be even with other non-sports shows like Real Housewives.

So hopefully they get back on track. I think they did take a short term hit on ratings by promoting FD but given the PPV buys it was a fine give and take


----------



## fabi1982

Oh and checking the 2021 numbers they basically are down in both the demo and the viewership.


----------



## .christopher.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dave is such a dumdum


Still can't believe he said that. Imagine thinking women can't handle blood. On a wrestling show. It's like thinking women can't handle a football game because all their clothes get muddy.


----------



## Geert Wilders

DammitChrist said:


> They also got a boost in viewership WITH those NJPW guys being showcased last week on a night where the cable audience was even lower than the negative anomaly 2 weeks ago, and it was never confirmed beforehand that all of the NJPW talents would be gone after Forbidden Door (which is further proven by the fact that Hirooki Goto plus YOSHI-HASHI are still in the United States atm); so clearly, there's plenty of AEW fans that also care about those NJPW talents too.


now imagine if they didn't showcase those njpw. they would have had a bigger boost.

and as i've said, they should be catering to the masses. not those "plenty of AEW fans". they should cater to all.


----------



## DammitChrist

Geert Wilders said:


> now imagine if they didn't showcase those njpw. they would have had a bigger boost.
> 
> and as i've said, they should be catering to the masses. not those "plenty of AEW fans". they should cater to all.


Nah, they should just continue what they're doing (which includes showcasing these NJPW talents on their shows whenever they're available).

I'm opposed to making unnecessary major changes atm, especially when it comes to prioritizing the casuals over the hardcore audience (which possibly leads to the expense of top-quality programming).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Yeah up until now I would say 1-4-2-3…and damn that twist in ep7…will binge all weekend 😂😂


1/4 is = for me

then 3 and last is 2


----------



## Geert Wilders

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, they should just continue what they're doing (which includes showcasing these NJPW talents on their shows whenever they're available).
> 
> I'm opposed to making unnecessary major changes atm, especially when it comes to prioritizing the casuals over the hardcore audience (which possibly leads to the expense of top-quality programming).


this show catered to the casuals and it was one of the best shows in the last few months


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

.christopher. said:


> Still can't believe he said that. Imagine thinking women can't handle blood. On a wrestling show. It's like thinking women can't handle a football game because all their clothes get muddy.


‘Women can’t handle blood’

You stuttering mfer, ever heard of the menstrual cycle? XD

i am not a fan of dave


----------



## InexorableJourney

Congratulations to AEW even Eddie Kingston couldn't kill it.


----------



## Randy Lahey

2021 Blood and Guts did a 0.42 (2nd place show 0.32)

2022 Blood and Guts did a 0.36 (2nd place show did a 0.27)

So by % they have about the same dominant level over the competition. But fewer people watching cable means less revenue for future tv deals.

Ive argued this on the Raw thread and will do so here. Cable companies are buying viewers when they buy shows. If there are fewer viewers watching, they will pay less for the show even if it’s still a 1st place show.

Given that Warner is paying 1/5 what Raw gets from USA, I think they are in line for an increase but obviously they can command more if the demo is higher.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Oh and checking the 2021 numbers they basically are down in both the demo and the viewership.


i saw this on twitter - not sure if accurate
but i’m too lazy to check

2021 June: 0.19 + 0.19 + 0.20 + 0.21 + 0.35 = 0.228
2022 June: 0.40 + 0.34 + 0.28 + 0.31 + 0.36 = 0.338


----------



## CovidFan

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i saw this on twitter - not sure if accurate
> but i’m too lazy to check
> 
> 2021 June: 0.19 + 0.19 + 0.20 + 0.21 + 0.35 = 0.228
> 2022 June: 0.40 + 0.34 + 0.28 + 0.31 + 0.36 = 0.338


Accurate


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> duuuude, isn’t s4 the best so far?
> 
> i’ve enjoyed it a lot more than s2 and s3 - both not bad, but nowhere close to s4


Season 2 and 3 deviated away from the 80s horror theme far too much. I’ve got about 30 minutes left of the first half of Season 4, been saving it for this evening exactly.


fabi1982 said:


> Yeah up until now I would say 1-4-2-3…and damn that twist in ep7…will binge all weekend 😂😂


HEY STFU, BRO!!! Haha


----------



## Sad Panda

It was a really good show revolving around a really well build match. Glad a lot of eyes got to see it.


----------



## Not Lying

In retrospect, I think the strategy with AEW’s partnership with NJPW is to maintain a strong hold on their core audience.
I don’t know if it’s intentional, but honestly it’s not so bad, here’s the positive for the relationship:

1-NJPW/AEW build up is happening in May/June, around the same time as NBA playoffs finals and they lose a bunch of viewership there anyways. It’s a yearly trend.The more casual watch NBA, but hardcore stay and love it more, giving them dream matches.

2- Since they were going to be down anyways, a 1-2 month build up for this mashup was perfect lengths , and still a financial success (gates + merch +ppv buys without Punk/Omega/Bryan)

3- They get to give teasers and still some guys really stand out like Jay White, ZSB, Okada and Ospreay. Some out of the masses of wrestlers will stick out to American audience.

4- Everybody wins and it’s a cost of viewership he was gona lose a chunk of it anyways, so why not get more money per head this month and do a thing that pleases the hardcore.

Hats off Tony. ☺🤗❄❄


----------



## Prosper

That's awesome!! I need all the people from 2 weeks ago saying they'd never hit a milli again to speak up. They probably won't though.

They're still licking their wounds from Forbidden Door being a success.


----------



## Not Lying

#1 for almost 3 weeks now too.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Actual AEW product > NJPW crossover

Like many of us said. The viewers have spoken. 😃


----------



## Randy Lahey

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i saw this on twitter - not sure if accurate
> but i’m too lazy to check
> 
> 2021 June: 0.19 + 0.19 + 0.20 + 0.21 + 0.35 = 0.228
> 2022 June: 0.40 + 0.34 + 0.28 + 0.31 + 0.36 = 0.338


They were preempted during June last year for NBA playoffs. Most of the shows were on Friday so couldn’t have valid comparison


----------



## Pentagon Senior

InexorableJourney said:


> Congratulations to AEW even Eddie Kingston couldn't kill it.


I admire the persistence of your gimmick, I find it strange yet equally compelling. Kudos


----------



## DammitChrist

Ooh, I'm really curious to see last night's quarterly breakdown now 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542615672135360512


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Santana sacrificed his leg to the ratings gods for this moment.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

Fantastic number, OC and blood and guts are draws 🔥🔥🔥 great job TK, the show was fantastic


----------



## 3venflow

AEW has had the #1 and #3 most attended TV shows in North America this year (per WrestleTix), with Wednesday's Dynamite/Rampage the #3. I suspect Grand Slam will take over the number one slot before the year is out.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Just saw that Jobber Battle Royal winner. Rampage will comfortably remain at 400k viewers 😂*


----------



## DammitChrist

That's cool.

That automatically means that the Battle Royal must be a pretty good talent then.

That's even more reason to tune in to Rampage tomorrow night


----------



## qntntgood

Same shit different toilet,and it's been 3 years of no growth.


----------



## DammitChrist

qntntgood said:


> Same shit different toilet,and it's been 3 years of no growth.


Their ongoing growth and success says otherwise.


----------



## qntntgood

DammitChrist said:


> Their ongoing growth and success says otherwise.


Bullshit, it's the same song and dance for three years and the same people get excited for 1 million viewers.


----------



## RapShepard

Aye good ass number


----------



## 3venflow

Here's TBS' press release. I think they did one last week when Dynamite also finished #1 on cable.


----------



## One Shed

@fabi1982 @bdon @LifeInCattleClass 

The new season of Stranger Things is good? I saw some dude on the internet say it was not great so naturally I avoided it. Kidding, I just wanted to wait for the rest of the season to drop so I did not have to be annoyed and wait for the rest if it was great.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> @fabi1982 @bdon @LifeInCattleClass
> 
> The new season of Stranger Things is good? I saw some dude on the internet say it was not great so naturally I avoided it. Kidding, I just wanted to wait for the rest of the season to drop so I did not have to be annoyed and wait for the rest if it was great.


It’s been very good. I wouldn’t call it great, just very good.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> It’s been very good. I wouldn’t call it great, just very good.


bdon with the undersell

s4 is great @Two Sheds


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Here's TBS' press release. I think they did one last week when Dynamite also finished #1 on cable.
> 
> View attachment 126608


what does the (0.71 rtg) etc mean?

what wasn’t their demo number

0.55 was not the overall - it was 0.36

or is that something else?


----------



## GarpTheFist

That number is further proof that casuals do exist, as much as aew diehards want to deny it, they were just being driven away by njpw/bad booking.


----------



## Prosper

Two Sheds said:


> @fabi1982 @bdon @LifeInCattleClass
> 
> The new season of Stranger Things is good? I saw some dude on the internet say it was not great so naturally I avoided it. Kidding, I just wanted to wait for the rest of the season to drop so I did not have to be annoyed and wait for the rest if it was great.


I heard it was fire. I've seen the earlier seasons and now just waiting for it to be over so I can binge it in one week same as you. I'll be doing the same for House of the Dragon which also looks like it'll be awesome. Good thing the source material is already done and they won't be making shit up as they go like the final season of the original GOT.


----------



## Seafort

Randy Lahey said:


> 2021 Blood and Guts did a 0.42 (2nd place show 0.32)
> 
> 2022 Blood and Guts did a 0.36 (2nd place show did a 0.27)
> 
> So by % they have about the same dominant level over the competition. But fewer people watching cable means less revenue for future tv deals.
> 
> Ive argued this on the Raw thread and will do so here. Cable companies are buying viewers when they buy shows. If there are fewer viewers watching, they will pay less for the show even if it’s still a 1st place show.


WWE is dominating Monday nights, albeit with a continually decreasing total number of viewers. Yet they are projected to get an even bigger content rights deal next time.


----------



## Seafort

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I just think it's funny that you tried to throw in production costs and salaries for NXT like AEW has none 😂*





LifeInCattleClass said:


> Not at all like none - c’mon
> 
> i said work total cost back to cost per 0.01 rating and you can compare apples with apples
> 
> i’m sure AEWs costs are massive
> 
> i’m sure NXT is not cheap either


I'm guessing that AEW is operating at close to break even or is moderately unprofitable. However I am also guessing that the game plan would have been to operate at a loss until the second content rights deal.

I posted on a separate threat that excluding merchandising and international deals, I would project that they are pulling in $90M annually between PPV revenue, ticket sales, and the WB content rights deal.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Seafort said:


> I'm guessing that AEW is operating at close to break even or is moderately unprofitable. However I am also guessing that the game plan would have been to operate at a loss until the second content rights deal.
> 
> I posted on a separate threat that excluding merchandising and international deals, I would project that they are pulling in $90M annually between PPV revenue, ticket sales, and the WB content rights deal.


that seems right - there was a report that 2021 was 84m


----------



## DammitChrist

GarpTheFist said:


> That number is further proof that casuals do exist, as much as aew diehards want to deny it, they were just being driven away by njpw/bad booking.


Nah, the boost for last week’s episode, and the big success for Forbidden Door strongly indicates that a great portion of wrestling fans tuned in to see the NJPW talents too.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Okay, this thread has popped me huge.

First of all, the ratings have not popped back up because the Japan guys are gone (Although I do agree they are a hinderance) they have popped up because everybody loves a good cage match and they're a draw. AEW has given away their equivalent of WAR GAMES for free on television featuring a few former WWE World Champions and recognisable names. However, I'm not so sure I'd be pumping my fists and kissing Don West because despite this huge match being given away for free with the Dynamite debut of a biggish star in Cesaro they only managed to get a boost of about 150k people.

Second of all, the fanboys going "FUCK THE HATERS! WHERE THEY AT?!" will never fail to pop me. Settle the fuck down, they did a million and 24 thousand people. It isn't like they did 1.24m and really blew it out of the water they just barely scraped the basic number people give them a pass for but some here are celebrating like AEW has just thrown the winning touchdown to win the Superbowl.

Third, I can tell you all what the excuse will be from the AEW fans when AEW doesn't get renewed on big money. For years it has been AEW will be upgraded and it'll be huge but they've already slipped in their excuse already. That excuse? "Cable TV is a dying medium so of course AEW weren't given a better deal"

Le sigh. So predictable.


----------



## chronoxiong

Congrats on the 1 million viewers for the week. Well deserved.


----------



## Teemu™

Dynamite did an absolutely staggering one *BILLION* viewers! Extremely impressive. I don't really know what to say, the AEW fans proved me wrong, I have no argument or defense. One billion is huge.

Real talk: us haters always gloat whenever Dynamite fails, so the fans deserve their gloat now. It's only fair. Battle by battle.


----------



## Irish Jet

Chip Chipperson said:


> Okay, this thread has popped me huge.
> 
> First of all, the ratings have not popped back up because the Japan guys are gone (Although I do agree they are a hinderance) they have popped up because everybody loves a good cage match and they're a draw. AEW has given away their equivalent of WAR GAMES for free on television featuring a few former WWE World Champions and recognisable names. However, I'm not so sure I'd be pumping my fists and kissing Don West because despite this huge match being given away for free with the Dynamite debut of a biggish star in Cesaro they only managed to get a boost of about 150k people.
> 
> Second of all, the fanboys going "FUCK THE HATERS! WHERE THEY AT?!" will never fail to pop me. Settle the fuck down, they did a million and 24 thousand people. It isn't like they did 1.24m and really blew it out of the water they just barely scraped the basic number people give them a pass for but some here are celebrating like AEW has just thrown the winning touchdown to win the Superbowl.
> 
> Third, I can tell you all what the excuse will be from the AEW fans when AEW doesn't get renewed on big money. For years it has been AEW will be upgraded and it'll be huge but they've already slipped in their excuse already. That excuse? "Cable TV is a dying medium so of course AEW weren't given a better deal"
> 
> Le sigh. So predictable.


Seriously.










Even their paid propagandist realises this lol.

I will say it certainly helps when you give your main guys more screen time, which is a huge issue with AEW’s regular segregated programming. No one gets the shine. Giving the B&G match so long meant that was the case by default. You’d like to think they’d learn but they wont.


----------



## DammitChrist

Irish Jet said:


> Seriously.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even their paid propagandist realises this lol.
> 
> I will say it certainly helps when you give your main guys more screen time, which is a huge issue with AEW’s regular segregated programming. No one gets the shine. Giving the B&G match so long meant that was the case by default. You’d like to think they’d learn but they wont.


Nah, last night was a really impressive number


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, last night was a really impressive number


Cmon DC...

Last years blood and guts did a 1.090m this time did a 1.026m. I'd say in terms of star power this one was bigger as well especially with Cesaro's first AEW TV match given away in it.

It's the return episode from what you and others have said is one of their best PPVs so interest should be super high, they've got a double cage match with a ton of stars in it, they had Orange Cassidy who people claim is a huge draw, Cargill, FTR etc.

All of this in their favour and they've snuck ever so slightly over that million mark, it's like getting 51% on a test, yeah you did pass and congratulations on that but you've only just barely made it over the line.


----------



## zkorejo

Good number!

Off topic. Stranger things season 4 volume 1 was really very good. But the last episode and cliffhanger set up for volume two which might be out by now has the potential to make it best of all seasons. 

Show of the summer for me has been The Boys season 3. Absolutely amazing so far. Last episode was a 10/10.


----------



## Kishido

Awesome numbers this time


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Teemu™ said:


> View attachment 126616
> 
> 
> Dynamite did an absolutely staggering one *BILLION* viewers! Extremely impressive. I don't really know what to say, the AEW fans proved me wrong, I have no argument or defense. One billion is huge.
> 
> Real talk: us haters always gloat whenever Dynamite fails, so the fans deserve their gloat now. It's only fair. Battle by battle.


Over one billion viewers. The numbers don’t lie, PAL. Dynamite is the most successful show in human history.


----------



## Top bins

Teemu™ said:


> View attachment 126616
> 
> 
> Dynamite did an absolutely staggering one *BILLION* viewers! Extremely impressive. I don't really know what to say, the AEW fans proved me wrong, I have no argument or defense. One billion is huge.
> 
> Real talk: us haters always gloat whenever Dynamite fails, so the fans deserve their gloat now. It's only fair. Battle by battle.


Satnam Singh bringing in the whole of India!
#ratingsdraw


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i saw this on twitter - not sure if accurate
> but i’m too lazy to check
> 
> 2021 June: 0.19 + 0.19 + 0.20 + 0.21 + 0.35 = 0.228
> 2022 June: 0.40 + 0.34 + 0.28 + 0.31 + 0.36 = 0.338


Oh so you compare june 2021, the month with 2 fridays and one saturday Daynamite? Here, take the straw


----------



## CovidFan

July 2021 on 4 Wednesday airings: .33, .40, .44, .45 = .405


----------



## The real Axel

You win this round, Dubbalos


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Oh so you compare june 2021, the month with 2 fridays and one saturday Daynamite? Here, take the straw


lol, how do you want to compare it?

i don’t know what to do with this straw - do you have a milkshake to go with it? XD


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, how do you want to compare it?
> 
> i don’t know what to do with this straw - do you have a milkshake to go with it? XD


Of course you can compare months, but when basically every week was on another day than the month this year, you know...oh and the straw, you want to blow air up my butt?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Of course you can compare months, but when basically every week was on another day than the month this year, you know...*oh and the straw, you want to blow air up my butt?*


yes please


----------



## Wolf Mark

Claudio Spells Ratings. Accept it. Learn to Love it. Cause it may be a regular occurance. 

Seriously though when you delivers something like this, like a War Game match, people are gonna come. AEW bring on the heat every week and build things up and create hot angles and the ratings are gonna rise. Do not do a quiet show next week.


----------



## Chan Hung

GarpTheFist said:


> That number is further proof that casuals do exist, as much as aew diehards want to deny it, they were just being driven away by njpw/bad booking.


I agree that they went beyond their base. The gimmick match helped draw in casuals that definitely helped them exceed in the ratings.


----------



## Chan Hung

DammitChrist said:


> Ooh, I'm really curious to see last night's quarterly breakdown now
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542615672135360512


I think this was honestly a no brainer. Most of us expected them to score big and their use of putting the B&G match for one hour was bound to do that. Anything less would have been a big disappointment.


----------



## 3venflow

Here's the Forbidden Door PPV breakdown from the WON:

125,000 to 127,000 buys
7,000 buys on NJPW World (it aired at 8am to 1pm on a Monday in Japan)
80% of buys in the USA (higher than normal)

AEW PPV buys from Thurston:


----------



## Fearless Viper

Impressive especially with no big AEW names involved.


----------



## GarpTheFist

That's a big drop in buys, considering this is a supershow


----------



## Shaz Cena

Fearless Viper said:


> Impressive especially with no big AEW names involved.


Pretty sure Jericho, Moxley, Claudio, and Eddie are a big name.


----------



## CovidFan

GarpTheFist said:


> That's a big drop in buys, considering this is a supershow


I'd think that was expected. It's a special attraction to an audience that's already small. I also think that's why they added a separate ppv for it a month after one of their own real ones instead of dedicating All Out to it.



Shaz Cena said:


> Pretty sure Jericho, Moxley, Claudio, and Eddie are a big name.


Well at least two of them are. AEW's missing their top three guys and still pulled off 1 million. That's a great feat. Imagine if they were on the show


----------



## Mister Sinister

They literally did War Games x HIAC with a body tossed off the top of a giant f'n cage to try to bump the ratings.

They would have bumped over the line of 2 million viewers last night if they had writers writing some narrative for this show. It was the first show after a PPV and they put on an injury factory of a match for no damn reason.

The only real story is Christian, Luchasaurus and Jungle Boy. Christian should be world champion. He is the only guy doing an angle and cutting a promo.


----------



## Prosper

That's pretty good considering all the injuries. Beats all of 2020 and even beats DON last year. Next year should have an even higher buyrate.


----------



## 3venflow

Q1: Orange Cassidy vs. Ethan Page – 1,025,000 viewers, 458,000 in 18-49
Q2: Christian Cage promo/Luchasaurus vs. Serpentico/Scorpio Sky & Wardlow segment – 986,000 viewers (down 39,000), 461,000 in 18-49 (up 3,000)
Q3: Danhausen & FTR vs. Max Caster & Gunn Club/Jay Lethal, Sonjay Dutt & Satnam Singh promo – 953,000 viewers (down 33,000), 432,000 in 18-49 (down 29,000)
Q4: Jade Cargill vs. Leila Gray/Young Bucks promo/Jim Ross introduction/Blood & Guts video – 959,000 viewers (up 6,000), 434,000 in 18-49 (up 2,000)
Q5: Jericho Appreciation Society vs. Blackpool Combat Club – 1,037,000 viewers (up 78,000), 505,000 in 18-49 (up 74,000)
Q6: Jericho Appreciation Society vs. Blackpool Combat Club – 1,072,000 viewers (up 35,000), 504,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
Q7: Jericho Appreciation Society vs. Blackpool Combat Club – 1,075,000 viewers (up 3,000), 483,000 in 18-49 (down 21,000)
Q8: End of JAS vs. BCC – 1,075,000 viewers (even), 500,000 in 18-49 (up 17,000)

Edit: The Thurston version below.


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> Q1: Orange Cassidy vs. Ethan Page – 1,025,000 viewers, 458,000 in 18-49
> Q2: Christian Cage promo/Luchasaurus vs. Serpentico/Scorpio Sky & Wardlow segment – 986,000 viewers (down 39,000), 461,000 in 18-49 (up 3,000)
> Q3: Danhausen & FTR vs. Max Caster & Gunn Club/Jay Lethal, Sonjay Dutt & Satnam Singh promo – 953,000 viewers (down 33,000), 432,000 in 18-49 (down 29,000)
> Q4: Jade Cargill vs. Leila Gray/Young Bucks promo/Jim Ross introduction/Blood & Guts video – 959,000 viewers (up 6,000), 434,000 in 18-49 (up 2,000)
> Q5: Jericho Appreciation Society vs. Blackpool Combat Club – 1,037,000 viewers (up 78,000), 505,000 in 18-49 (up 74,000)
> Q6: Jericho Appreciation Society vs. Blackpool Combat Club – 1,072,000 viewers (up 35,000), 504,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
> Q7: Jericho Appreciation Society vs. Blackpool Combat Club – 1,075,000 viewers (up 3,000), 483,000 in 18-49 (down 21,000)
> Q8: End of JAS vs. BCC – 1,075,000 viewers (even), 500,000 in 18-49 (up 17,000)
> 
> Edit: The Thurston version below.
> 
> View attachment 126679


Very nice!


----------



## DammitChrist

Even the lowest quarterly rated segment for Dynamite this week is a healthy number


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

This part here is why OC will always have work

ad break in there and everything - younger people stayed tuned


----------



## Randy Lahey

Excellent job of BG maintaining an audience


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Good number.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543010971098251270
Very solid rating for Blood N Guts. The fans watched what they were supposed to watch. Now, just don't put a bunch of bullshit on TV next week and run everyone off again.*


----------



## 3venflow

Detroit was AEW's fourth highest Dynamite attendance since returning to the road. This coming week's in Rochester will be a smaller show, despite the two singles title matches, and is currently at 4,600+ sold (probably touch 5,000 by showtime).


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> Here's the Forbidden Door PPV breakdown from the WON:
> 
> 125,000 to 127,000 buys
> 7,000 buys on NJPW World (it aired at 8am to 1pm on a Monday in Japan)
> 80% of buys in the USA (higher than normal)
> 
> AEW PPV buys from Thurston:
> 
> View attachment 126664


The least bought PPV in over a year... what growth

Great to see Dynamite reaching a million! Surely Tiny Kahn will be able to keep this up for another week... Are there any ex WWE stars to debut?


----------



## GarpTheFist

NathanMayberry said:


> The least bought PPV in over a year... what growth
> 
> Great to see Dynamite reaching a million! Surely Tiny Kahn will be able to keep this up for another week... Are there any ex WWE stars to debut?



Shh we're not supposed to mention the decline, only their growth or the blind faith merchants will get mad at us

And well, i don't think no way jose is signed to any company? We can hype up his debut as a MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT


----------



## La Parka

NathanMayberry said:


> The least bought PPV in over a year... what growth
> 
> Great to see Dynamite reaching a million! Surely Tiny Kahn will be able to keep this up for another week... Are there any ex WWE stars to debut?












“I was skeptical when they first signed Shane but that banger he had with orange cassidy completely changed everything. great signing!”


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> The least bought PPV in over a year... what growth
> 
> Great to see Dynamite reaching a million! Surely Tiny Kahn will be able to keep this up for another week... Are there any ex WWE stars to debut?





GarpTheFist said:


> Shh we're not supposed to mention the decline, only their growth or the blind faith merchants will get mad at us
> 
> And well, i don't think no way jose is signed to any company? We can hype up his debut as a MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT


I like how Forbidden Door was originally going to be dismissed as a flop weeks before the ppv was scheduled to take place; but now that we have (more) data/evidence of that event turning out to be a major success, you're predictably downplaying it after moving the goalposts again.

This cross-promotional ppv beats any of the ppvs pre-2021; but sure, they're totally 'not' showing growth even though it's already obvious by looking at that chart.

For the record, this ppv had multiple top stars absent, and yet they* still* topped every ppv in 2019 through 2020; which makes that number even more impressive


----------



## theshape31

Attendance: 16,529 (Second highest live attendance ever)

127,000 PPV buys (higher than 8 of their first 9 PPVs)

And for perspective, AEW has 4 major PPV events throughout the year and this wasn’t one of them. It’s a secondary event that went into completely uncharted territories, testing an entirely unfamiliar concept.

AEW’s PPV growth is proven by the fact that every single one of their 4 major events has significantly improved year after year. Not until any of their [now 5] PPV buyrates drop from the previous year would it be at all appropriate to claim anything otherwise. So even while their weekly TV ratings have struggled recently, this aspect of their business continues to be hugely successful.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Kip looks like a supervillain

i m kinda keen to see him back now


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543005672887013376

EDIT> wrong thread, but oh well!


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW 'Royal' Rampage ratings*:

Viewers: 486,000
18-49: 0.16

#3 on cable and the highest viewership since April 22nd. Also joint highest in the key demo (with 6/10) since the same April show.

*Last two months*:

6/24: 422,000 / 0.12
6/17: 331,000 / 0.10
6/10: 476,000 / 0.16
6/3: 475,000 / 0.14
5/27: 341,000 / 0.14
5/20: 410,000 / 0.15
5/13: 340,000 / 0.12
5/6: 292,000 / 0.11


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW 'Royal' Rampage ratings*:
> 
> Viewers: 486,000
> 18-49: 0.16
> 
> #3 on cable and the highest viewership since April 22nd. Also joint highest in the key demo (with 6/10) since the same April show.
> 
> *Last two months*:
> 
> 6/24: 422,000 / 0.12
> 6/17: 331,000 / 0.10
> 6/10: 476,000 / 0.16
> 6/3: 475,000 / 0.14
> 5/27: 341,000 / 0.14
> 5/20: 410,000 / 0.15
> 5/13: 340,000 / 0.12
> 5/6: 292,000 / 0.11
> 
> View attachment 127161


nice to see growth and new fans checking it out

wonderful 

jokes aside, getting 0.16 and being 3rd on a 10 spot on friday night is some kinda feat - thanks Bucks!


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> nice to see growth and new fans checking it out
> 
> wonderful


🤣🤣🤣🤣

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544411873499561987


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> 🤣🤣🤣🤣
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544411873499561987


yeah, i saw the rating up there

you trying to show me something new orrrr?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah, i saw the rating up there
> 
> you trying to show me something new orrrr?


*The ratings aren't official until Thurston posts them. You know the drill, cow man! 🐮*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *The ratings aren't official until Thurston posts them. You know the drill, cow man! 🐮*


lol… i mean… showbuzzdaily is a little more official than him

but i’ll allow it xD


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol… i mean… showbuzzdaily is a little more official than him
> 
> but i’ll allow it xD


*Not gonna lie, I had nothing witty to say since I'm more focused on shilling Giulia than trolling the consistently bad Rampage ratings 😂.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Not gonna lie, I had nothing witty to say since I'm more focused on shilling Giulia than trolling the consistently bad Rampage ratings 😂.*


*good ratings

check that graphs, stats never lie

that’s G R O W T H baybeeee


----------



## CovidFan

Brody King is is a draw. People heard he won and they flocked to their television sets to see this beefy bitch get the W. Let's see what happens if we put Brody over Mox


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Fearless Viper said:


> Impressive especially with no big AEW names involved.




First AEW champion Jericho and current interim champion Jon Moxley don't qualify as big names anymore?





The Legit Lioness said:


> *The ratings aren't official until Thurston posts them. You know the drill, cow man! 🐮*



Isn't he the guy who initially posted Dynamite got a billion plus viewers?


----------



## Fearless Viper

Hotdiggity11 said:


> First AEW champion Jericho and current interim champion Jon Moxley don't qualify as big names anymore?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't he the guy who initially posted Dynamite got a billion plus viewers?


They are but I don't see them bringing the show into 1m category.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Fearless Viper said:


> They are but I don't see them bringing the show into 1m category.



As opposed to who? CM Punk? Dynamite couldn't even get over a million the episode after he became champion.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Hotdiggity11 said:


> As opposed to who? CM Punk? Dynamite couldn't even get over a million the episode after he became champion.


Nah, I mean ppv fallout + big names like Punk, Bryan and others are needed to take them back to 1m mark but turns out they don't need them.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Fearless Viper said:


> Nah, I mean ppv fallout + big names like Punk, Bryan and others are needed to take them back to 1m mark but turns out they don't need them.



As he pointed out, a ppv fallout + punk's first world title in 9 years as well as the MJF controversy couldn't bring them 1m


----------



## Fearless Viper

GarpTheFist said:


> As he pointed out, a ppv fallout + punk's first world title in 9 years as well as the MJF controversy couldn't bring them 1m












I get your point though but nonetheless still a great rating.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544829693530185728


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544829693530185728



Always bug eyed and bushy tailed TK


----------



## One Shed

Have not made a prediction in awhile, but I am going to guess this week's episode will be higher than the yearly average (I will say around 900K) due to coming after Blood & Guts last week, but the quarters will show a significant drop off in the second hour. Next week is going to be much lower based on what they chose to present tonight.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> Have not made a prediction in awhile, but I am going to guess this week's episode will be higher than the yearly average (I will say around 900K) due to coming after Blood & Guts last week, but the quarters will show a significant drop off in the second hour. Next week is going to be much lower based on what they chose to present tonight.


nah, Qs will stay strong

people love Mox

but i also predict around 950k total


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 979,000
18-49: 0.36

Number one on cable again.

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

6/29: 1,023,000 / 0.36
6/22: 878,000 / 0.31
6/15: 761,000 / 0.28
6/8: 939,000 / 0.34
6/1: 969,000 / 0.40
5/25: 929,000 / 0.35
5/18: 922,000 / 0.33
5/11: 840,000 / 0.33


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Number 1 with a bullet - 0.06 over next closest

nice, roll on next week


----------



## RapShepard

Good on number 1, but they clearly don't know how to stay hot. They need a hot story and to run with it for more than one segment.


----------



## Prosper

Good stuff. How many times has AEW been #1 on cable this year? Has to be a lot.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Good rating given that the show was a throwaway. It equaled last week


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Good on number 1, but they clearly don't know how to stay hot. They need a hot story and to run with it for more than one segment.


number 1…. Don‘t know how to stay hot…..


yeah, if they did they would be MORE number 1 😂 😂🤣


----------



## Dr. Middy

Number is good, but that also was influenced by last week. 

Will be curious what next week does based on the show last night.


----------



## La Parka

Two Sheds said:


> Have not made a prediction in awhile, but I am going to guess this week's episode will be higher than the yearly average (I will say around 900K) due to coming after Blood & Guts last week, but the quarters will show a significant drop off in the second hour. Next week is going to be much lower based on what they chose to present tonight.


AEWs ability to snatch defeat in the jaws of victory is unprecedented. 

Million viewers? Give em a show with a literal child leading a stable! 

Two weeks later when the ratings are in the 800 range "people just ain't watchin tv anymore, guys"


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> number 1…. Don‘t know how to stay hot…..
> 
> 
> yeah, if they did they would be MORE number 1


Smaller number in the ever important male demo and viewership from the week before. So yeah clearly they can't stay hot. Back under a million. Yeah they can do better, calm your cape


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Smaller number in the ever important male demo and viewership from the week before. So yeah clearly they can't stay hot. Back under a million. Yeah they can do better, calm your cape


or same 0.36 as last week and number 1

you know, its sometimes ok to just say ‘well done’ and move on

don't worry, next week or the week thereafter the rating can be shit again and crits will be logical again

ps> what does calm your cape even mean?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Huh… only 0.01 off from RAW

not bad


----------



## Sad Panda

Good number. Maybe with next week being week 1 of Fyter Fest they’ll be able to keep the momentum going forward. 

Claudio vs Hager, Bucks vs. Starks/Hobbs vs. Lee/Swerve is a good start.


----------



## DammitChrist

Brody King being accused of being responsible to lower viewership below 900 K viewers (due to his victory on Rampage) only for the TV ratings to reveal that they received approximately 980 K viewers for his world title shot against Jon Moxley, which headlined this episode.

King being the right winner of the Royal Rampageconfirmed. Kudos to both men for bringing more interest to their main event here 

I think this week's number is also a good look for the likes of Wardlow and Christian Cage (along with Luchasaurus by association).

I'm really curious to check out the quarterly numbers; but I bet the 1st hour got the stronger end of the deal regarding the ratings, and then Moxley vs King brought the numbers back even higher toward the end of this episode.


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite has finished number one on cable four weeks in a row now, I believe.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> Good stuff. How many times has AEW been #1 on cable this year? Has to be a lot.


AEW Dynamite #1 2022

January - 1, 1/19

February -1 2/9

March- 1 3/9

June- 3 6/8, 6/22, 6/29

July- 1 7/6

So out of 27 weeks Dynamite was number 1 on Wednesday 7 times 





LifeInCattleClass said:


> or same 0.36 as last week and number 1
> 
> you know, its sometimes ok to just say ‘well done’ and move on
> 
> don't worry, next week or the week thereafter the rating can be shit again and crits will be logical again
> 
> ps> what does calm your cape even mean?


When you a juggernaut you're going to get judged even when you're number 1. Fucking Drake just released an album that hit number 1 to 10 in every notable country, every song charted in the US. And the reception was still "but yeah this is shit, what was he thinking" [emoji23]. Heavy criticism goes to the top guys. If AEW ain't gaining they losing, even if they winning.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Dynamite has finished number one on cable four weeks in a row now, I believe.


not bad for a filler episode outside of the Wardlow win


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> When you a juggernaut you're going to get judged even when you're number 1. Fucking Drake just released an album that hit number 1 to 10 in every notable country, every song charted in the US. And the reception was still "but yeah this is shit, what was he thinking"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Heavy criticism goes to the top guys. If AEW ain't gaining they losing, even if they winning.


judge it all you like - but judge it fairly

it was 0.36 last week and 0.36 this week

how is that ‘cannot stay hot’ ?

logically since last week was blood&guts, they should be lower this week - but they’re not

so, your statement is wrong - if they were number 1 but 0.31 you’d have a point


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> judge it all you like - but judge it fairly
> 
> it was 0.36 last week and 0.36 this week
> 
> how is that ‘cannot stay hot’ ?
> 
> logically since last week was blood&guts, they should be lower this week - but they’re not
> 
> so, your statement is wrong


I'm all about consistency. Raw and SmackDown get no leeway when they drop numbers despite always being a top 10 show, so neither will Dynamite. Want to be a top dog you get treated like one. Dynamite lost viewers on the ever important 18-49 male demo and viewership despite having 2 title matches. So clearly they didn't stay hot [emoji2379][emoji23].


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

RAW aired on the 4th of July and still won. Stop.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I'm all about consistency. Raw and SmackDown get no leeway when they drop numbers despite always being a top 10 show, so neither will Dynamite. Want to be a top dog you get treated like one. Dynamite lost viewers on the ever important 18-49 male demo and viewership despite having 2 title matches. So clearly they didn't stay hot [emoji2379][emoji23].


lol, if they lost male demo, they must’ve gained female demo to stay flat on overall Demo?

and the overall viewers is just a representation of the total viewers on the night - on a different night 0.36 might be = to 2m / you know i don;t care about overall, its arbitrary math

them being = on 0.36 means they stayed the same level of heat as last week - that is staying hot, no matter how you slice it daddy-o



Showstopper said:


> RAW aired on the 4th of July and still won. Stop.


…. No one said they didn’t mate. Don’t worry - Raw is safe xD xD


----------



## 3venflow

TK on ratings/next TV deal to the NY Post:

_"Whenever our next media right deal, the next one does kick in, it will be historic. It will be recorded in history because everything in wrestling is recorded in history into posterity. It will make history however it goes. Right now, everyone would expect very, very well. We expect it’s going to go very well for us based on how strong we’ve been performing."_

He also spoke about ROH's new deal with Warner (B/R Report) and hopes that can lead to something more. Sounds like he's hoping Death by Dishonor could interest Warner Bros. Discovery enough to give them some kind of weekly deal.









Tony Khan talks AEW’s next TV deal, Kenny Omega’s status, Ring of Honor plans


AEW president Tony Khan opens up in a Q&A with The Post.




nypost.com


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> I'm all about consistency. Raw and SmackDown get no leeway when they drop numbers despite always being a top 10 show, so neither will Dynamite. Want to be a top dog you get treated like one. Dynamite lost viewers on the ever important 18-49 male demo and viewership despite having 2 title matches. So clearly they didn't stay hot [emoji2379][emoji23].


Except for the fact that they *did* stay hot.

978 K viewers is a strong rating for a filler episode, especially when they couldn't even catch a break for most of last month due to various outside factors out of their control.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> TK on ratings/next TV deal to the NY Post:
> 
> _"Whenever our next media right deal, the next one does kick in, it will be historic. It will be recorded in history because everything in wrestling is recorded in history into posterity. It will make history however it goes. Right now, everyone would expect very, very well. We expect it’s going to go very well for us based on how strong we’ve been performing."_
> 
> He also spoke about ROH's new deal with Warner (B/R Report) and hopes that can lead to something more. Sounds like he's hoping Death by Dishonor could interest Warner Bros. Discovery enough to give them some kind of weekly deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony Khan talks AEW’s next TV deal, Kenny Omega’s status, Ring of Honor plans
> 
> 
> AEW president Tony Khan opens up in a Q&A with The Post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nypost.com


the best part of that article is right in the beginning

‘Edited for clarity and length’

XD

TK is IMO a great booker, but he is a hard interviewee to listen to or read sometimes xD

kinda the dishevelled professor archetype


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> AEW Dynamite #1 2022
> 
> January - 1, 1/19
> 
> February -1 2/9
> 
> March- 1 3/9
> 
> June- 3 6/8, 6/22, 6/29
> 
> July- 1 7/6
> 
> So out of 27 weeks Dynamite was number 1 on Wednesday 7 times


Hmm thought it was closer to 15 times


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Back under a million? They're going out of business again.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Back under a million? They're going out of business again.*


dammit, guess Sasha has to go back to the Fed now

:’()


----------



## Randy Lahey

I think this week does show that the New Japan stuff did have a negative effect on the demo.

June 15
Dynamite -0.28
Housewives- 0.28

June 22
Dynamite - 0.31
Housewives- 0.31

June 29
Dynamite- 0.36
Housewives- 0.27

July 6
Dynamite- 0.36
Housewives- 0.30

Although some of that the June 15/22 declines could be attributed to Stanley Cup Finals too. Housewives wouldn’t lose demo to hockey, but AEW certainly would so it can’t be all blamed on New Japan turning off some viewers


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Randy Lahey said:


> I think this week does show that the New Japan stuff did have a negative effect on the demo.
> 
> June 15
> Dynamite -0.28
> Housewives- 0.28
> 
> June 22
> Dynamite - 0.31
> Housewives- 0.31
> 
> June 29
> Dynamite- 0.36
> Housewives- 0.27
> 
> July 6
> Dynamite- 0.36
> Housewives- 0.30
> 
> Although some of that the June 15/22 declines could be attributed to Stanley Cup Finals too. Housewives wouldn’t lose demo to hockey, but AEW certainly would so it can’t be all blamed on New Japan turning off some viewers




I sure as hell know my TV was often turned to a different channel when random guys from NJPW with no background came on TV.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Huh… only 0.01 off from RAW
> 
> not bad


Oh you mean the 4th of July RAW? Like the worst RAW of the year even before Christmas


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dammit, guess Sasha has to go back to the Fed now
> 
> :’()


*No need, she can just wrestle Stardom matches in America. New Japan got spare keys to the Forbidden Door made. Get fucked Tony Khan! 😃*


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Sasha needs to join AEW in order to be the 12th member in some stable.


----------



## Chan Hung

They did surprisingly good for a very weak, lousy show.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Awful rating. Just goes to show how pathetic AEW are that they can't consistently get 1 million viewers. It's a failure of a company.


----------



## La Parka

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Awful rating. Just goes to show how pathetic AEW are that they can't consistently get 1 million viewers. It's a failure of a company.


DC gonna reply to this with a ger like post


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

La Parka said:


> DC gonna reply to this with a ger like post


Oh I'm counting on it.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Give AEW a break. Still recovering from bringing a bunch of randoms from Japan instead of concentrating on building their own product.


----------



## Sad Panda

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Give AEW a break. Still recovering from bringing a bunch of randoms from Japan instead of concentrating on building their own product.


Establishing a fan base outside of North America is quite important as well. I understand your poin, by the way, and I’m not dismissing it. But while the ratings weren’t there, gaining a following in other countries can only help grow the brand internationally. It’s quite the feat for a 3 year old company to be branching out to places like Japan, England and Canada.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Sad Panda said:


> Establishing a fan base outside of North America is quite important as well. I understand your poin, by the way, and I’m not dismissing it. But while the ratings weren’t there, gaining a following in other countries can only help grow the brand internationally. It’s quite the feat for a 3 year old company to be branching out to places like Japan, England and Canada.


I’m fine with them eventually growing their brand but they should start domestically. AEW has largely stagnated in their ratings for both Dynamite and Rampage. They pushed aside a lot of possible storylines and utilization of their massive hiring sprees to promote the stars of other companies. They keep trying new pet projects for the sake of it. Remember when they had a similar thing with Impact?


----------



## Chan Hung

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Awful rating. Just goes to show how pathetic AEW are that they can't consistently get 1 million viewers. It's a failure of a company.


Seems like 1 million average more than two weeks in a row is their Kryptonite


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> I’m fine with them eventually growing their brand but they should start domestically. AEW has largely stagnated in their ratings for both Dynamite and Rampage. They pushed aside a lot of possible storylines and utilization of their massive hiring sprees to promote the stars of other companies. They keep trying new pet projects for the sake of it. Remember when they had a similar thing with Impact?


No thanks, I’m not waiting another 3 years for AEW to finally (re)introduce some of the best professional wrestlers in NJPW; especially when many of us have wanted AEW to work with NJPW since they started up this company in 2019.

The major success with Forbidden Door, and the strong positive reception for that ppv from the wrestling audience just furthers proves that a lot of people really want to see more of these awesome cross-promotional matches.

They should continue building up their global audience by showcasing these NJPW talents on TV whenever they’re sporadically available throughout the year.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> No thanks, I’m not waiting another 3 years for AEW to finally (re)introduce some of the best professional wrestlers in NJPW; especially when many of us have wanted AEW to work with NJPW since they started up this company in 2019.
> 
> The major success with Forbidden Door, and the strong positive reception for that ppv from the wrestling audience just furthers proves that a lot of people really want to see more of these awesome cross-promotional matches.
> 
> They should continue building up their global audience by showcasing these NJPW talents on TV whenever they’re sporadically available throughout the year.



That’s nice. We already saw the ratings decline from all these amazing talents coming in. You can keep using your built-up excuses but a lot of us were correct that Dynamite and Rampage’s ratings would jump back up after these mostly unknown NJPW stopped dominating the shows.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Chan Hung said:


> Seems like 1 million average more than two weeks in a row is their Kryptonite


Yep, they just can't do it. They're so ADHD in their booking.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Yep, they just can't do it. They're so ADHD in their booking.


NBA and NHL are over. Now it’s probably Desperate Housewives and the 92nd game in the 896 game MLB season.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> That’s nice. We already saw the ratings decline from all these amazing talents coming in. You can keep using your built-up excuses but a lot of us were correct that Dynamite and Rampage’s ratings would jump back up after these mostly unknown NJPW stopped dominating the shows.


That week that saw a 100 K+ boost in viewership where Hiroshi Tanahashi closed Dynamite in a tag match with Jon Moxley against the pair of Chris Jericho plus Lance Archer, where Kazuchika Okada finally made his AEW debut, and where Will Ospreay was showcased in a tag match says otherwise.

This fact continues to be no-sold by those who are opposed to NJPW, but that Dynamite episode took place on the *same night* where the overall cable audience was somehow even lower than the previous week where Dynamite had that weird negative anomaly with its ratings.

Again, plenty of wrestling fans are really interested in seeing these NJPW wrestlers get showcased in AEW too.

Plus, there’s also the fact that over a million viewers got to witness Hiroshi Tanahashi's AEW debut live on Dynamite last month 

Anyway, I'm not using 'excuses.' I'm using logic, facts, and valid reasoning.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Fans of NXT 2.0 talking shit about AEW’s ratings is just 😂.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Oh you mean the 4th of July RAW? Like the worst RAW of the year even before Christmas


hey, i don’t create the dates xD

you can only play the game in front of you


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> hey, i don’t create the dates xD
> 
> you can only play the game in front of you


But you can think about making a comment when you see the game is rigged


----------



## Geert Wilders

Well look at that. Further prof that Forbidden door affected Dynamites rating.


----------



## Teemu™

Chan Hung said:


> They did surprisingly good for a very weak, lousy show.


Ratings don't really reflect that week's show. It's moreso the prior week and overall interest.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> But you can think about making a comment when you see the game is rigged


i've always been told when I give reasons for a low number i should ignore it, cause they would 'draw anyway'

I am a mirror, i give back what is given to me XD


----------



## Teemu™

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i've always been told when I give reasons for a low number i should ignore it, cause they would 'draw anyway'
> 
> I am a mirror, i give back what is given to me XD


You being a mirror explains why I'm always so disgusted and horrified by your posts.

(I'm really not, just wanted to make that joke.)

😏


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i've always been told when I give reasons for a low number i should ignore it, cause they would 'draw anyway'
> 
> I am a mirror, i give back what is given to me XD


Thats not your best gimmick


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Thats not your best gimmick


haha! That is actually not a gimmick

i always give back what is given to me - its my life rule


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

Didn't old Uncle Dave say the Blood & Guts rating was nothing to write home about and frame the demo number it got as disappointing? That was a free TV PPV essentially and it got only slightly more viewers and the same demo number as this week's regular standard edition of Dynamite.

Does that mean Melting Dave was right that B&G was underwhelming from a ratings perspective or...? Certain people around here take Dave's words as gospel and go to great lengths to protect his reputation so I'm curious about any thoughts on his recent doom and gloom takes on AEW's ratings.


----------



## Irish Jet

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> Does that mean Melting Dave was right that B&G was underwhelming from a ratings perspective or...?


----------



## 3venflow

From the Observer. I've bolded the peaks for both metrics (done two for the 18-49 as not sure how relevant the overrun is) and underlined the lows. Mox vs. Brody took the 18-49 from the lowest to the highest with a huge spike.

Q1: Wardlow vs. Scorpio Sky/Jon Moxley promo – *1,121,000 viewers*, 473,000 in 18-49
Q2: Tony Nese, Mark Sterling and Keith Lee segment/Christian Cage, Luchasaurus and Matt Hardy segment/Blood and Guts interviews – 1,018,000 viewers (down 103,000), 472,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
Q3: The Butcher & The Blade vs. Keith Lee & Swerve Strickland – 971,000 viewers (down 47,000), 469,000 in 18-49 (down 3,000)
Q4: Eddie Kingston promo/Jericho Appreciation Society attacks Ruby Soho/The Dark Order & QT Marshall segment – 964,000 viewers (down 7,000), 475,000 in 18-49 (up 6,000)
Q5: Penta Oscuro vs. Rush, Jay Lethal promo – 931,000 viewers (down 33,000), 478,000 in 18-49 (up 3,000)
Q6: Tony Nese, Mark Sterling & Best Friends segment/Gunn Club & The Acclaimed vs. Fuego del Sol & Ruffin’ It/Miro promo/Nyla Rose & Marina Shafir vs. Thunder Rosa & Toni Storm – 940,000 viewers (up 9,000), 475,000 in 18-49 (down 3,000)
Q7: End of Rose & Shafir vs. Thunderstorm/Jade Cargill interview/Daniel Garcia promo/FTR promo – 899,000 viewers (down 41,000), 456,000 in 18-49 (down 19,000)
Q8: Jon Moxley vs. Brody King – 980,000 viewers (up 81,000), *494,000 in 18-49* (up 38,000)
Overrun: End of Moxley vs. King – 1,019,000 viewers (up 39,000),* 503,000 in 18-49* (up 9,000)


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

It's really funny how Tony always puts the women in Quarter 7. I dunno if it's just a coincidence but that seems to be the death slot where viewership always seems to fall regardless of what's in it.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Watching mox's match numbers be 1m made me go "wait mox is getting 1m like cena in 2013?! He's that big of a draw?" Then i remembered cena actually GAINED 1m viewers for his segments ontop of the already existing viewers numbers. This is not a shot at mox or aew but it's kind of wild to think that in just 9 years, wrestling has fallen off so far. Iirc Bryan and brock post wm30 segments averaged 5m each. Any company would be lucky to get anywhere near those numbers these days.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Strong start, and a nice recovery for the main event. Don’t know what the quarter numbers have been for the last month besides Blood and Guts (since that’s the only one Thurston posted on Twitter recently), but main event going back up big like that is far from a guarantee. Mox/Brody performed really well considering it was a filler Interim Title match with virtually no build up. Good stuff.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

GNKenny said:


> It's really funny how Tony always puts the women in Quarter 7. I dunno if it's just a coincidence but that seems to be the death slot where viewership always seems to fall regardless of what's in it.


or its the opposite -its the death slot cause the women are in there


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

LifeInCattleClass said:


> or its the opposite -its the death slot cause the women are in there


----------



## Peerless

The main event did better than I thought


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Peerless said:


> The main event did better than I thought



Moxley is ok but he's not the draw that the Moist of the Moistless seems to be.


----------



## Peerless

Apart from Punk’s early few weeks has he even been a big quarter draw? I just remember his main event match with MJF doing underwhelming numbers


----------



## Martyn

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Strong start, and a nice recovery for the main event. Don’t know what the quarter numbers have been for the last month besides Blood and Guts (since that’s the only one Thurston posted on Twitter recently), but main event going back up big like that is far from a guarantee. Mox/Brody performed really well considering it was a filler Interim Title match with virtually no build up. Good stuff.


Virtually no build up? It wasn’t a personal grudge match, but Brody won his spot in a two ring 20 man battle royal which had never really been done before. That’s quite a build up.


----------



## DammitChrist

3venflow said:


> From the Observer. I've bolded the peaks for both metrics (done two for the 18-49 as not sure how relevant the overrun is) and underlined the lows. Mox vs. Brody took the 18-49 from the lowest to the highest with a huge spike.
> 
> Q1: Wardlow vs. Scorpio Sky/Jon Moxley promo – *1,121,000 viewers*, 473,000 in 18-49
> Q2: Tony Nese, Mark Sterling and Keith Lee segment/Christian Cage, Luchasaurus and Matt Hardy segment/Blood and Guts interviews – 1,018,000 viewers (down 103,000), 472,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
> Q3: The Butcher & The Blade vs. Keith Lee & Swerve Strickland – 971,000 viewers (down 47,000), 469,000 in 18-49 (down 3,000)
> Q4: Eddie Kingston promo/Jericho Appreciation Society attacks Ruby Soho/The Dark Order & QT Marshall segment – 964,000 viewers (down 7,000), 475,000 in 18-49 (up 6,000)
> Q5: Penta Oscuro vs. Rush, Jay Lethal promo – 931,000 viewers (down 33,000), 478,000 in 18-49 (up 3,000)
> Q6: Tony Nese, Mark Sterling & Best Friends segment/Gunn Club & The Acclaimed vs. Fuego del Sol & Ruffin’ It/Miro promo/Nyla Rose & Marina Shafir vs. Thunder Rosa & Toni Storm – 940,000 viewers (up 9,000), 475,000 in 18-49 (down 3,000)
> Q7: End of Rose & Shafir vs. Thunderstorm/Jade Cargill interview/Daniel Garcia promo/FTR promo – 899,000 viewers (down 41,000), 456,000 in 18-49 (down 19,000)
> Q8: Jon Moxley vs. Brody King – 980,000 viewers (up 81,000), *494,000 in 18-49* (up 38,000)
> Overrun: End of Moxley vs. King – 1,019,000 viewers (up 39,000),* 503,000 in 18-49* (up 9,000)





DammitChrist said:


> Brody King being accused of being responsible to lower viewership below 900 K viewers (due to his victory on Rampage) only for the TV ratings to reveal that they received approximately 980 K viewers for his world title shot against Jon Moxley, which headlined this episode.
> 
> King being the right winner of the Royal Rampage confirmed. Kudos to both men for bringing more interest to their main event here
> 
> *I think this week's number is also a good look for the likes of Wardlow and Christian Cage (along with Luchasaurus by association).*
> 
> I'm really curious to check out the quarterly numbers; *but I bet the 1st hour got the stronger end of the deal regarding the ratings, and then Moxley vs King brought the numbers back even higher toward the end of this episode.*


Yea, that sounds about right


----------



## Not Lying

fabi1982 said:


> But you can think about making a comment when you see the game is rigged


When AEW was losing viewership year on year in April because of NBA playoffs (which weren't in 04/2021) where you giving them the benefit of the doubt or just looking at the numbers?


----------



## bdon

Randy Lahey said:


> Fans of NXT 2.0 talking shit about AEW’s ratings is just 😂.


It really is.z


----------



## Shaz Cena

Peerless said:


> The main event did better than I thought


Real talk I had that match in the background while doing other things. I looked back at it realizing I was not missing much.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 428,000
18-49: 0.15

#10 on cable

*Last two months*:

7/1: 486,000 / 0.16 (Royal Rampage)
6/24: 422,000 / 0.12
6/17: 331,000 / 0.10
6/10: 476,000 / 0.16
6/3: 475,000 / 0.14
5/27: 341,000 / 0.14
5/20: 410,000 / 0.15
5/13: 340,000 / 0.12

Friday's show did very well (#3) in M18-49, but the F18-49 didn't reflect Dynamite's strong showing with a measly 0.09 (#22 by my count).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewers: 428,000
> 18-49: 0.15
> 
> #10 on cable
> 
> *Last two months*:
> 
> 7/1: 486,000 / 0.16 (Royal Rampage)
> 6/24: 422,000 / 0.12
> 6/17: 331,000 / 0.10
> 6/10: 476,000 / 0.16
> 6/3: 475,000 / 0.14
> 5/27: 341,000 / 0.14
> 5/20: 410,000 / 0.15
> 5/13: 340,000 / 0.12
> 
> Friday's show did very well (#3) in M18-49, but the F18-49 didn't reflect Dynamite's strong showing with a measly 0.09 (#22 by my count).
> 
> View attachment 127451


more young people watch Rampage on 10 at a Friday than NXT at 8 on a Tuesday

i don't know what that says about the young people that watch on a Friday though XD


----------



## The real Axel

LifeInCattleClass said:


> more young people watch Rampage on 10 at a Friday than NXT at 8 on a Tuesday
> 
> i don't know what that says about the young people that watch on a Friday though XD


Not even slightly surprising that Dubbalos are home on a Friday night


----------



## InexorableJourney

Eddie Kingston shits the bed yet again.


----------



## DammitChrist

The real Axel said:


> Not even slightly surprising that Dubbalos are home on a Friday night


It’s almost like the younger folks are more drawn to an entertaining product between both those shows.


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

LifeInCattleClass said:


> more young people watch Rampage on 10 at a Friday than NXT at 8 on a Tuesday
> 
> i don't know what that says about the young people that watch on a Friday though XD


Lol @ you bringing up NXT unprovoked, the Wednesday Night Pillow Fight has been over for a year and you're still thinking about the Ded Fed's developmental brand.


----------



## DammitChrist

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> Lol @ you bringing up NXT unprovoked, the Wednesday Night Pillow Fight has been over for a year and you're still thinking about the Ded Fed's developmental brand.


NXT's big special got a mediocre rating last Tuesday, which is pretty amusing.

I do find it convenient how NXT 2.0 talk is only welcomed here when it's only at the expense of Rampage, or even Dynamite occasionally. That's predictable and expected.

Anyway, his point is still valid


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

DammitChrist said:


> NXT's big special got a mediocre rating last Tuesday, which is pretty amusing.
> 
> I do find it convenient how NXT 2.0 talk is only welcomed here when it's only at the expense of Rampage, or even Dynamite occasionally. That's predictable and expected.
> 
> Anyway, his point is still valid


NXT has no star power and is WWE's developmental C brand, Rampage has stars like Moxley regularly on it. The fact that NXT beats Rampage in the ratings is just plain sad.

Serious question, why do you use so many emoji's? I'm legitimately cyrious. No judgement just want to know the fascination.


----------



## DammitChrist

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> NXT has no star power and is WWE's developmental C brand, Rampage has stars like Moxley regularly on it. The fact *that NXT beats Rampage in the ratings is just plain sad.*
> 
> Serious question, why do you use so many emotions? I'm legitimately cyrious. No judgement just want to know the fascination.


Nah, it's not really sad at all since both shows are on at different times, and since Rampage is stuck on the Friday night death slot (which is put at an even worse disadvantage since it just went 2 months straight of being swapped at different time slots at every other week not too long ago).


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, it's not really sad at all since both shows are on at different times, and since Rampage is stuck on the Friday night death slot (which is put at an even worse disadvantage since it just went 2 months straight of being swapped at different time slots at every other week not too long ago).


Cool, now answer my question about your obsessive overuse of emoji's.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> Lol @ you bringing up NXT unprovoked, the Wednesday Night Pillow Fight has been over for a year and you're still thinking about the Ded Fed's developmental brand.


it was an observation, look at you getting all defensive and uptight about it


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it was an observation, look at you getting all defensive and uptight about it


Yes, I suppose you are correct, I got defensive over your defensive attack at NXT. I'll do better next time. If you want to take petty shots at a show you allegedly don't watch because of some lame "war" that ended a year ago you have at it. We all need a hobby I guess.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> Yes, I suppose you are correct, I got defensive over your defensive attack at NXT. I'll do better next time. If you want to take petty shots at a show you allegedly don't watch because of some lame "war" that ended a year ago you have at it. We all need a hobby I guess.


did you even comprehend my comment there bud?

i took a shot at the social lives of AEW fans - but you’re so desperate to ‘stand up’ for the Fed you got your neck all out of joint

go for a massage and a colonic irrigation and loosen up whatever is stuck up there champ


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

LifeInCattleClass said:


> did you even comprehend my comment there bud?
> 
> i took a shot at the social lives of AEW fans - but you’re so desperate to ‘stand up’ for the Fed you got your neck all out of joint
> 
> go for a massage and a colonic irrigation and loosen up whatever is stuck up there champ


You still brought up NXT instead of ignoring it's existence entirely. It's peak irony for the guy who launches himself in front of bullets for Tony Khan and AEW in general to accuse someone else of being a desperate fanboy. Are you saying I'm to WWE what you are to AEW? If so gross, I hope I don't come off as that much of a WWE suckup.

Hard as you may try you just aren't as funny and witty as you seem to think you are so I'll forego that massage and look into getting you a good joke book instead.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> You still brought up NXT instead of ignoring it's existence entirely. It's peak irony for the guy who launches himself in front of bullets for Tony Khan and AEW in general to accuse someone else of being a desperate fanboy. Are you saying I'm to WWE what you are to AEW? If so gross, I hope I don't come off as that much of a WWE suckup.
> 
> Hard as you may try you just aren't as funny and witty as you seem to think you are so I'll forego that massage and look into getting you a good joke book instead.


your posts are joke book enough bud

i'v getting great 'forever alone' material


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

LifeInCattleClass said:


> your posts are joke book enough bud
> 
> i'v getting great 'forever alone' material


You have by far the most posts here, your forever alone material coming from home big guy?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> You have by far the most posts here, your forever alone material coming from home big guy?


well, you're very active suddenly for a Joined 22 Sept 2021 with 173 posts bro - you come here often, or just drawn by the allure of my posts?

lets see your activity over the next little while shall we? 

in the meantime, click here to continue


----------



## Randy Lahey

I don’t think a taped show at 10pm on a Friday night is ever going to do good numbers. I know Tony doesn’t want to go directly against Smackdown, but he really should. Guarantee more people will watch at 8pm on a Friday vs 10pm. I don’t know what else TNT would rather put on that 8pm slot.

While the 0.15 at 10pm on a Friday isn’t good, it’s not near the disaster a NXT is doing 0.12 at 8pm on a Tuesday


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Randy Lahey said:


> I don’t think a taped show at 10pm on a Friday night is ever going to do good numbers. I know Tony doesn’t want to go directly against Smackdown, but he really should. Guarantee more people will watch at 8pm on a Friday vs 10pm. I don’t know what else TNT would rather put on that 8pm slot.
> 
> While the 0.15 at 10pm on a Friday isn’t good, it’s not near the disaster a NXT is doing 0.12 at 8pm on a Tuesday


i wish they'd bite the bullet and put it live on a Saturday at 8 or something

just run some smaller venues - will be a great lead-in to PPVs - you make it a weekend thing

if you don't want it live, taped will work as well of course - but it needs an 8 o'clock slot


----------



## Randy Lahey

Saturday night would be preferred especially live. AEW is probably hesitant to try it bc it may not be cost effective to run 2 live shows a week depending on what TNT is paying them for Rampage.

I think ultimately Tony is trying to get TV for Ring of Honor and I could see a Rampage/ROH combining and running live. The main problem however running Saturday night is it would get killed in the Fall with most 18-49 watching college football. But from Jan thru Aug it’d be ok. 

Right now, with Rampage being a taped 1 hour show it feels like an episode of Sunday Night Heat or Superstars. May be good matches but a missable show


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, you're very active suddenly for a Joined 22 Sept 2021 with 173 posts bro - you come here often, or just drawn by the allure of my posts?
> 
> lets see your activity over the next little while shall we?
> 
> in the meantime, click here to continue
> 
> View attachment 127482


You have 797 posts...in just this month according to the leader board. I have 172 now 173 posts in 294. By my shitty math that works out to 1.69 posts a day. Truly forever alone material.

And if you you must know I joined originally signed up here in 2010, username was Jack Donaghy before I changed it to Don Draper, hence my new name and "surprised I'm still alive too" header. I was voted best new user of 2010. I stopped posting in about 2016 and came back with a new account when I couldn't for the life of me remember my own password so created this one.

I feel dirty now so I think I'm gonna go now.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> You have 797 posts...in just this month according to the leader board. I have 172 now 173 posts in 294. By my shitty math that works out to 1.69 posts a day. Truly forever alone material.
> 
> And if you you must know I joined originally signed up here in 2010, username was Jack Donaghy before I changed it to Don Draper, hence my new name and "surprised I'm still alive too" header. I was voted best new user of 2010. I stopped posting in about 2016 and came back with a new account when I couldn't for the life of me remember my own password so created this one.
> 
> I feel dirty now so I think I'm gonna go now.


you'll never go again now that i've drawn you in


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you'll never go again now that i've drawn you in


You got me there, no more 5 year sabbaticals for me.


----------



## the_hound




----------



## PhenomenalOne11

AEW ratings being terrible as usual, you love to see it.


----------



## 3venflow

All Out tickets moving fast in the pre-sale.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547600808807526401


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> All Out tickets moving fast in the pre-sale.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547600808807526401


what is a combo ticket?


----------



## 3venflow

@LifeInCattleClass They're running All Out, Dynamite and Rampage on three different nights in the NOW Arena, so you can buy combo tickets for those shows.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> @LifeInCattleClass They're running All Out, Dynamite and Rampage on three different nights in the NOW Arena, so you can buy combo tickets for those shows.


wow - sounds like a must buy if you can


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 942,000
18-49: 0.32

Number one on cable for (I believe) the fifth week running?

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

7/6: 979,000 / 0.36
6/29: 1,023,000 / 0.36
6/22: 878,000 / 0.31
6/15: 761,000 / 0.28
6/8: 939,000 / 0.34
6/1: 969,000 / 0.40
5/25: 929,000 / 0.35
5/18: 922,000 / 0.33

F18-49 was down from last week's upsurge, but they still blew away the nearest competition in total 18-49 by 0.06.


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 942,000
> 18-49: 0.32
> 
> Number one on cable for (I believe) the fifth week running?
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 7/6: 979,000 / 0.36
> 6/29: 1,023,000 / 0.36
> 6/22: 878,000 / 0.31
> 6/15: 761,000 / 0.28
> 6/8: 939,000 / 0.34
> 6/1: 969,000 / 0.40
> 5/25: 929,000 / 0.35
> 5/18: 922,000 / 0.33



Bad demo who but cares number 1! Those oldies only matter when we want em too!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 942,000
> 18-49: 0.32
> 
> Number one on cable for (I believe) the fifth week running?
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 7/6: 979,000 / 0.36
> 6/29: 1,023,000 / 0.36
> 6/22: 878,000 / 0.31
> 6/15: 761,000 / 0.28
> 6/8: 939,000 / 0.34
> 6/1: 969,000 / 0.40
> 5/25: 929,000 / 0.35
> 5/18: 922,000 / 0.33
> 
> View attachment 127744


down on demo though

F 18-49 looking good on the flip side


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> down on demo though
> 
> F 18-49 looking good on the flip side



Yeah I'm sure those chicks were super turned on by having the guy they tuned in to see dig in another man's pockets and play with a clown.


----------



## Chan Hung

RainmakerV2 said:


> Yeah I'm sure those chicks were super turned on by having the guy they tuned in to see dig in another man's pockets and play with a clown.


Certainly gives a bad perception to an audience that the newly crowned babyface champ struggled with a scrawny geek to barely win. Funny how he was amazingly effortlessly against 10 security guards all at the same time but barely pinned this chump.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> Yeah I'm sure those chicks were super turned on by having the guy they tuned in to see dig in another man's pockets and play with a clown.


i spoke to all of them

they were

they also said the rankings rule


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i spoke to all of them
> 
> they were
> 
> they also said the rankings rule



Good to know.



I'm also gonna assume the ones you spoke to looked like this.












Now thats too sweet.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> Good to know.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also gonna assume the ones you spoke to looked like this.
> 
> View attachment 127746
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now thats too sweet.


who is that hot mamma in the middle?

tall drink o' water with the beard

... no, the other one with the beard


----------



## DammitChrist

Chan Hung said:


> Certainly gives a bad perception to an audience that the newly crowned babyface champ struggled with a scrawny geek to barely win. Funny how he was amazingly effortlessly against 10 security guards all at the same time but barely pinned this chump.


Orange Cassidy is a great wrestler who possibly gave Wardlow his best singles match yet.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Ratings up *≠* Eddie Kingston


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

InexorableJourney said:


> Ratings up *≠* Eddie Kingston


eddie was on li'l bro

but the demo was down....


soo... you're right I guess?

(then again, he was on last week as well...sooooooo)


----------



## Randy Lahey

I think next week they should expect to pop a 0.40 with the Jericho-Kingston headliner. There won’t be any live sports to compete with.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Horrible demo considering there was no competition last night. Yikes.


----------



## DammitChrist

The 'Attitoodz' is among us, fellas


----------



## DUSTY 74

Randy Lahey said:


> I think next week they should expect to pop a 0.40 with the Jericho-Kingston headliner. There won’t be any live sports to compete with.


All though they are head to head w The ESPY’s


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Wardlow gift wrapped the female demo they couldn't reach in THREE FUCKING YEARS, and they already made a joke out of him. Idiots. He isn't buried, but that was still fucking stupid.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Wardlow gift wrapped the female demo they couldn't reach in THREE FUCKING YEARS, and they already made a joke out of him. Idiots. He isn't buried, but that was still fucking stupid.*


jokes’ on you

da fems love OC


----------



## DammitChrist

I bet the women also love Orange Cassidy


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> jokes’ on you
> 
> da fems love OC


*Wardlow gave AEW their highest female demo ever last week. He takes priority.*


----------



## Geeee

what happened to cable? Seems like it really tanked in the last couple months. AEW dominating the night with a really mediocre number.


----------



## NathanMayberry

LifeInCattleClass said:


> jokes’ on you
> 
> da fems love OC





DammitChrist said:


> I bet the women also love Orange Cassidy


Orange Cassidy appeals to dudes..


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> Orange Cassidy appeals to dudes..


Dudes can be cool too.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

DammitChrist said:


> Orange Cassidy is a great wrestler who possibly gave Wardlow his best singles match yet.


Wow Ive seen you say it all now lol


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Viewership solid and #1 again in demo is good to see but would like to see the demo stay flat or rise.


----------



## Mr316

Geeee said:


> what happened to cable? Seems like it really tanked in the last couple months. AEW dominating the night with a really mediocre number.


Well, it’s summer. No NBA, no NHL, no NFL.All the great shows have moved to streaming platforms. So yes, cable has tanked in the last few weeks.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Chan Hung said:


> Certainly gives a bad perception to an audience that the newly crowned babyface champ struggled with a scrawny geek to barely win. Funny how he was amazingly effortlessly against 10 security guards all at the same time but barely pinned this chump.


While i don't think it was as damaging as some here like to claim, it certainly is a bad look, especially for those new women/fans he brought in. Women don't like seeing a strong guy being made to look weak so this could be a big deal for them. It will probably take more of this kind of booking for the overall fans to cool down on him, because he still gets big reactions from the crowd.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> jokes’ on you
> 
> da fems love OC


[emoji848] Wardlow and OC buddy film of them fucking through Europe! Surely getting that pornhub demo will bring up the ratings


----------



## .christopher.

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Wardlow gift wrapped the female demo they couldn't reach in THREE FUCKING YEARS, and they already made a joke out of him. Idiots. He isn't buried, but that was still fucking stupid.*


The shocking thing would've been AEW retaining those moist ladies. Why book Wardlow to kill a lower card heel thus making the ladies wet when you can book him to play goofball with a manchild?


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> The shocking thing would've been AEW retaining those moist ladies. Why book Wardlow to kill a lower card heel thus making the ladies wet when you can book him to play goofball with a manchild?


Nah, I'd rather see a really good match with Wardlow vs Orange Cassidy here over another monster having a squash match 

Besides, plenty of women also like to see fun wrestling matches too.


----------



## .christopher.

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, I'd rather see a really good match with Wardlow vs Orange Cassidy here over another monster having a squash match
> 
> Besides, plenty of women also like to see fun wrestling matches too.


Yeah, we all know what you want to see.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

RainmakerV2 said:


> Good to know.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also gonna assume the ones you spoke to looked like this.
> 
> View attachment 127746
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now thats too sweet.




Damn, Nash not getting the groupies he used to get. Sucks getting old.


----------



## Teemu™

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Damn, Nash not getting the groupies he used to get. Sucks getting old.


The age pill is the harshest pill of them all. And it will get everyone.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Wardlow and OC buddy film of them fucking through Europe! Surely getting that pornhub demo will bring up the ratings


money money!


----------



## La Parka

Dan Dongz said:


> You sound butthurt it did better than all your beloved Fox news shows faggott. Hope you get kidnapped by a massive bodybuilder, he straps you stomach first to a table, strips you naked, and duct tapes you to said table wrapping up your whole table but leaving your bare ass exposed. He sticks his tongue out and his eyeballs begin to rapidly rotate, one clock wise and one counter clockwise, and he begins licking your ass crack clean like a bowl of ice cream whilst maniacally wiggling his fingers, meanwhile you scream "AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!" 🤠
> 
> Hope the same things happens to these buttfuckers too:
> 
> @La Parka
> @Seth Grimes
> @Two Sheds
> @.christopher.
> 
> And SHOEBADDADADABEEBAHHBAHBAHBOOPBOOPBEEPBOOPOHFUCKSHITPISS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🤠😎🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠😈😥🦓🦓🦓🦓🦓🗿🗿🦓🦓🦓


How’s buying the forum? It’s been over a year now.


----------



## Seth Grimes

Dan Dongz said:


> You sound butthurt it did better than all your beloved Fox news shows faggott. Hope you get kidnapped by a massive bodybuilder, he straps you stomach first to a table, strips you naked, and duct tapes you to said table wrapping up your whole table but leaving your bare ass exposed. He sticks his tongue out and his eyeballs begin to rapidly rotate, one clock wise and one counter clockwise, and he begins licking your ass crack clean like a bowl of ice cream whilst maniacally wiggling his fingers, meanwhile you scream "AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!" 🤠
> 
> Hope the same things happens to these buttfuckers too:
> 
> @La Parka
> @Seth Grimes
> @Two Sheds
> @.christopher.
> 
> And SHOEBADDADADABEEBAHHBAHBAHBOOPBOOPBEEPBOOPOHFUCKSHITPISS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🤠😎🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠😈😥🦓🦓🦓🦓🦓🗿🗿🦓🦓🦓


Chrome you're a weirdo, go and touch grass


----------



## GarpTheFist

This is what happens when you lose power, even if it's something as stupid and inconsequential as a mod on a forum.


----------



## Chelsea

Still not sure why I hate SG and christopher... I mean, still not sure why Chrome hates SG and christopher.


----------



## La Parka

GarpTheFist said:


> This is what happens when you lose power, even if it's something as stupid and inconsequential as a mod on a forum.


Dudes saltier than trump (who ironically Chrome voted for)


----------



## Irish Jet

> Hope you get kidnapped by a massive bodybuilder, he straps you stomach first to a table, strips you naked, and duct tapes you to said table wrapping up your whole table but leaving your bare ass exposed. He sticks his tongue out and his eyeballs begin to rapidly rotate, one clock wise and one counter clockwise, and he begins licking your ass crack clean like a bowl of ice cream whilst maniacally wiggling his fingers


Plz do me next.


----------



## 3venflow

The *highs* and lows for each key metric highlighted. Like last week, I've double bolded the 18-49 peak since the overrun is so brief and not a quarter hour.

The biggest gain in total viewers, besides the overrun (which IIRC was maybe two minutes long?), was Q5, while the biggest loss (a staggering -100,000) was Q6.

Q1: Wardlow vs. Orange Cassidy – *1,093,000 viewers*, *446,000 in 18-49*
Q2: Pac vs. Shota Umino video/Chris Jericho promo/Eddie Kingston promo – 1,004,000 viewers (down 89,000), 442,000 in 18-49 (down 4,000)
Q3: Jon Moxley vs. Konosuke Takeshita – 958,000 viewers (down 46,000), 406,000 in 18-49 (down 36,000)
Q4: Christian Cage promo/Luchasaurus vs. Griff Garrison/Jericho Appreciation Society promo/Hangman Page & Dark Order segment – 945,000 viewers (down 13,000), 400,000 in 18-49 (down 6,000)
Q5: Claudio Castagnoli vs. Jake Hager/HOOK segment – 972,000 viewers (up 27,000), 412,000 in 18-49 (up 12,000)
Q6: Thunder Rosa vs. Miyu Yamashita video/Thunderstorm, Britt Baker & Jamie Hayter segment/Serena Deeb vs. Anna Jay – 872,000 viewers (down 100,000), 377,000 in 18-49 (down 23,000)
Q7: The Young Bucks vs. Swerve Strickland & Keith Lee vs. Ricky Starks & Powerhouse Hobbs – 866,000 viewers (down 6,000), 407,000 in 18-49 (up 30,000)
Q8: The Young Bucks vs. Swerve Strickland & Keith Lee vs. Ricky Starks & Powerhouse Hobbs – 875,000 viewers (up 9,000), 404,000 in 18-49 (down 3,000)
Overrun: End of Bucks vs. Swerve & Lee vs. Starks & Hobbs – 998,000 viewers (up 123,000), *464,000 in 18-49* (up 60,000)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Tag match at the end didn’t recover like Mox/Brody did last week (besides overrun). Of course Mox’s match this week didn’t stop the decline. 

Whole show just seemed to decline besides Q5 and Q8 slightly. Q5 actually is a good sign for Claudio since most breakdowns I have that quarter seems to go down. Not a massive gain but still highest of the night and it did beat out the World Title Eliminator and Tag title matches which again, is a good sign for Claudio (again, besides accounting for overrun).


----------



## La Parka

Am I reading that right? The women's match lost 100k people?! 

Jeeeeeeezus.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Women’s segment losing 100,000 viewers is gigantic. And you can’t blame anything else on TV coming on at that time. 

Tony just needs to kill it permanently.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> The *highs* and lows for each key metric highlighted. Like last week, I've double bolded the 18-49 peak since the overrun is so brief and not a quarter hour.
> 
> The biggest gain in total viewers, besides the overrun (which IIRC was maybe two minutes long?), was Q5, while the biggest loss (a staggering -100,000) was Q6.
> 
> Q1: Wardlow vs. Orange Cassidy – *1,093,000 viewers*, *446,000 in 18-49*
> Q2: Pac vs. Shota Umino video/Chris Jericho promo/Eddie Kingston promo – 1,004,000 viewers (down 89,000), 442,000 in 18-49 (down 4,000)
> Q3: Jon Moxley vs. Konosuke Takeshita – 958,000 viewers (down 46,000), 406,000 in 18-49 (down 36,000)
> Q4: Christian Cage promo/Luchasaurus vs. Griff Garrison/Jericho Appreciation Society promo/Hangman Page & Dark Order segment – 945,000 viewers (down 13,000), 400,000 in 18-49 (down 6,000)
> Q5: Claudio Castagnoli vs. Jake Hager/HOOK segment – 972,000 viewers (up 27,000), 412,000 in 18-49 (up 12,000)
> Q6: Thunder Rosa vs. Miyu Yamashita video/Thunderstorm, Britt Baker & Jamie Hayter segment/Serena Deeb vs. Anna Jay – 872,000 viewers (down 100,000), 377,000 in 18-49 (down 23,000)
> Q7: The Young Bucks vs. Swerve Strickland & Keith Lee vs. Ricky Starks & Powerhouse Hobbs – 866,000 viewers (down 6,000), 407,000 in 18-49 (up 30,000)
> Q8: The Young Bucks vs. Swerve Strickland & Keith Lee vs. Ricky Starks & Powerhouse Hobbs – 875,000 viewers (up 9,000), 404,000 in 18-49 (down 3,000)
> Overrun: End of Bucks vs. Swerve & Lee vs. Starks & Hobbs – 998,000 viewers (up 123,000), *464,000 in 18-49* (up 60,000)


damn - so i was right

9:30 is not the death slot - any segment with the women is the death slot

they need a star or they need to bin the division


----------



## Randy Lahey

LifeInCattleClass said:


> damn - so i was right
> 
> 9:30 is not the death slot - any segment with the women is the death slot
> 
> they need a star or they need to bin the division


I think the tanking of the womens segments shows that AEW and WWE have distinctly different fan bases. 

You could put Sasha and Charlotte Flair on and the AEW fan base still won’t watch. Hopefully Tony realizes this and surrenders womens wrestling to WWE. WWE’s fanbase is indifferent to womens wrestling. AEW’s clearly hates it in comparison to men. 

Give your audience what they want Tony. 2 hours of the best wrestling on the planet. And with a roster as stacked as AEW, those 2 hours should have no place for women wrestling


----------



## Teemu™

Randy Lahey said:


> I think the tanking of the womens segments shows that AEW and WWE have distinctly different fan bases.
> 
> You could put Sasha and Charlotte Flair on and the AEW fan base still won’t watch. Hopefully Tony realizes this and surrenders womens wrestling to WWE. WWE’s fanbase is indifferent to womens wrestling. AEW’s clearly hates it in comparison to men.
> 
> Give your audience what they want Tony. 2 hours of the best wrestling on the planet. And with a roster as stacked as AEW, those 2 hours should have no place for women wrestling


Note that I'm not taking sides here, at all. Just an objective observation.

But this strengthens the theory I've had that AEW has a lot of fans that feel modern WWE is too woke. And disliking women's wrestling (feeling like it's feminism being shoved down their throats) is a big part of this. The perceived general lack of diversity in AEW compared to the WWE may also play a part in the fandom.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

LifeInCattleClass said:


> damn - so i was right
> 
> 9:30 is not the death slot - any segment with the women is the death slot
> 
> they need a star or they need to bin the division


If you continue with this narrative you and me are going to have a problem and you are going to be added to the list.

To give you another chance to set things right; I think we are getting Women's Tag Team Titles. In ROH not AEW. The Bunny and Penelope Ford will be the first Champions.

Great idea Right???? Cause you looove women's wrestling.


----------



## Randy Lahey

I think AEW only works if it’s different than WWE. People see women wrestling on AEW, and they tune out because they could watch it in WWE if they felt like it.

The reason a viewer would watch AEW instead of WWE is if they feel AEW is offering something different or better than WWE. With AEW’s male wrestling, it is generally a far different style, more action. In many ways it’s seen (at least to the people warching) as better quality than WWE matches.

But I don’t think any AEW viewer could argue the womens matches/segments are any better or even different than what they’d see in WWE, and in some ways probably worse since WWE has more established female characters. 

The lapsed WWE fan, or the new 18-49 viewer they may try to attract, isn’t interested in watching women wrestle in AEW.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Teemu™ said:


> Note that I'm not taking sides here, at all. Just an objective observation.
> 
> But this strengthens the theory I've had that AEW has a lot of fans that feel modern WWE is too woke. And disliking women's wrestling (feeling like it's feminism being shoved down their throats) is a big part of this. The perceived general lack of diversity in AEW compared to the WWE may also play a part in the fandom.



You may be right but the biggest factor is because aew doesn't care about women so why would their audience care? If you put aside baker, it's not like there is anyone must see in that division. Now if you put the four horsewomen along with other top wwe female names like asuka and I'm pretty sure aew fans will care to watch even if the booking stays the same because those wwe names are way better than anyone in aew's women's division. they might even start drawing some viewers back for their segments.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ripcitydisciple said:


> If you continue with this narrative you and me are going to have a problem and you are going to be added to the list.
> 
> To give you another chance to set things right; I think we are getting Women's Tag Team Titles. In ROH not AEW. The Bunny and Penelope Ford will be the first Champions.
> 
> Great idea Right???? Cause you looove women's wrestling.


all sounds logical and good to me 

(Don’t hurt me boss) 😂


----------



## ripcitydisciple

LifeInCattleClass said:


> all sounds logical and good to me
> 
> (Don’t hurt me boss) 😂


So I give you another chance and you use it by insulting me? I don't ever want to be compared to Boss.


----------



## Prosper

That's an aggressive drop for the women, sucks to see because I'm a fan of both of them. Serena Deeb is straight class, only if she could cut a strong promo...


----------



## ElTerrible

3venflow said:


> The *highs* and lows for each key metric highlighted. Like last week, I've double bolded the 18-49 peak since the overrun is so brief and not a quarter hour.
> 
> The biggest gain in total viewers, besides the overrun (which IIRC was maybe two minutes long?), was Q5, while the biggest loss (a staggering -100,000) was Q6.
> 
> Q1: Wardlow vs. Orange Cassidy – *1,093,000 viewers*, *446,000 in 18-49*
> Q2: Pac vs. Shota Umino video/Chris Jericho promo/Eddie Kingston promo – 1,004,000 viewers (down 89,000), 442,000 in 18-49 (down 4,000)
> Q3: Jon Moxley vs. Konosuke Takeshita – *958,000 viewers* (down 46,000), 406,000 in 18-49 (down 36,000)





LifeInCattleClass said:


> damn - so i was right
> 
> 9:30 is not the death slot - any segment with the women is the death slot
> 
> they need a star or they need to bin the division


Maybe they should also bin Jericho, Kingston and Moxley, cause they lost 135k overall and 40k in the demo to Wardlow/OC in just 30 minutes.

Orange Cassidy is the biggest draw in AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ElTerrible said:


> Maybe they should also bin Jericho, Kingston and Moxley, cause they lost 135k overall and 40k in the demo to Wardlow/OC in just 30 minutes.
> 
> Orange Cassidy is the biggest draw in AEW.


OC for the win!


----------



## Teemu™

LifeInCattleClass said:


> OC for the win!


Tony did mention that somewhere; that OC is actually one of their biggest draws, which is why he's featured. I don't get it, personally, but as a science-oriented person, data is data and it doesn't care about your feelings. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Shaz Cena

Teemu™ said:


> Tony did mention that somewhere; that OC is actually one of their biggest draws, which is why he's featured. I don't get it, personally, but as a science-oriented person, data is data and it doesn't care about your feelings. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


This is exactly why OC needs to win the AEW World heavyweight championship. He is Brock Lesnar main event over. When Punk returns he should sacrifice his title to OC. There is no one better to hold it but OC.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan

AEW can’t just discontinue the women’s division. It is also impossible to “shove it down our throats” when women are like 50.1% of the population. They obviously don’t make up half the fan base of AEW or at least the female audience doesn’t enjoy the constantly evolving AEW women’s division. 

Aside from Britt and Jade nobody else is presented even half as strongly as the two AEW women with BIG personalities. When Mercedes Dos arrives in January or whatever they will finally have THREE. Thunder Rosa WAS on her way to that shortlist but several weak promos as champ have drastically diminished her aura.

Even if they don’t get Sasha the Smasha or Trinity Table AEW could NEVER just downplay the women and eventually shelve the division what with them broads in it. The bad “press” would overwhelm social media. The shitstorm would just cripple any attempts to defend the logic behind that decision.

I guess TK COULD just start a “sister” AEW in ALL ELITE WOMEN promotion. The argument could be that Japan does it that way…mostly. Creating an entirely female promotion on a YouTube or Rampage time slot will always look like demanding the ladies to lesser exposure. They would need to play up the division of the division as unique to North America. Yes, there are some places like SHIMMER and smaller groups prior to All Elite Women Wrestling existing. AEWW would run weekly though while places like SHIMMER hold giant tapings a few times annually.

It MIGHT work. Pushing it strongly MIGHT also accidentally allow the disinterested to tune out completely. None of this would go well with fans and fans who hate-watch online.


----------



## Teemu™

@DammitChrist Why did you rolleye me when I defended OC, and AEW's utilization of him? You make no sense.


----------



## Randy Lahey

I don’t think canning the womens division will cause anything. It’s a TV show. Low rated segments get cut. There’s nothing sexist about it’s just based on numbers. When 100,000 people tune out literally immediately, that’s problem 

Unless Tony non-renews all the women, I don’t think there will be any backlash. Simply put their stuff on YouTube. Tony is still trying to create enough content to get a streaming deal so I’m sure he’ll keep enough employed to create content.

For Dynamite, they can use Anna/Tay in angles involving their boyfriends. Britt is good enough on the mic she could easily do an interview segment like she did on The Waiting Room on Dark.

Just keep them out of the ring. AEW has a smart audience focused on work rate. It’s why the womens segments are shit on bc there’s far better male talent not getting on the show just to do the affirmative action womens segment. The live audience knows it. The TV viewing audience does as well


----------



## Ultimo Duggan

Randy Lahey said:


> I don’t think canning the womens division will cause anything. It’s a TV show. Low rated segments get cut. There’s nothing sexist about it’s just based on numbers. When 100,000 people tune out literally immediately, that’s problem
> 
> Unless Tony non-renews all the women, I don’t think there will be any backlash. Simply put their stuff on YouTube. Tony is still trying to create enough content to get a streaming deal so I’m sure he’ll keep enough employed to create content.
> 
> For Dynamite, they can use Anna/Tay in angles involving their boyfriends. Britt is good enough on the mic she could easily do an interview segment like she did on The Waiting Room on Dark.
> 
> Just keep them out of the ring. AEW has a smart audience focused on work rate. It’s why the womens segments are shit on bc there’s far better male talent not getting on the show just to do the affirmative action womens segment. The live audience knows it. The TV viewing audience does as well


Relegating the women to lesser roles would REALLY get a backlash. There is no putting the toothpaste cat genie back in the tube, bag or bottle when it comes to women’s wrestling. AEW doesn’t have the brand identity and ego to downgrade the women from the spots they currently occupy. WWE could decide tomorrow that Rhonda is done and switch all the women to manager or spokeswoman roles for the company. It wouldn’t be the smartest move but they could withstand the twitterverse revolt and any subsequent media attention that may result.

AEW definitely could be hurt so much worse if they ever went that route. The only way they wouldn’t get much flack is if somehow the women in wrestling somehow banded together with a women’s wrestler union. Then they would gradually segregate themselves with an all women’s promotion or two. That would absolve WWE, AEW and Impact from the hate and scorn that the vocal wrestling mob would unleash for giving up on integrating the men and women together in one or more of the largest wrestling promotions already running.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Women’s wrestling just isn’t that exciting in general. Doesn’t help that AEW barely have any talents that can cut a promo. Thunder Rosa got too much hype here and looks like her reign is a total bust. Yet Britt got overexposed for over a year so they would he hesitant in putting the title back on her.


Oops?


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 435,000
18-49: 0.14

#11 on cable.

*Last two months*:

7/8: 428,000 / 0.15
7/1: 486,000 / 0.16 (Royal Rampage)
6/24: 422,000 / 0.12
6/17: 331,000 / 0.10
6/10: 476,000 / 0.16
6/3: 475,000 / 0.14
5/27: 341,000 / 0.14
5/20: 410,000 / 0.15


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> I think the tanking of the womens segments shows that AEW and WWE have distinctly different fan bases.
> 
> You could put Sasha and Charlotte Flair on and the AEW fan base still won’t watch. Hopefully Tony realizes this and surrenders womens wrestling to WWE. WWE’s fanbase is indifferent to womens wrestling. AEW’s clearly hates it in comparison to men.
> 
> Give your audience what they want Tony. 2 hours of the best wrestling on the planet. And with a roster as stacked as AEW, those 2 hours should have no place for women wrestling


You can't cater to woke twitter and then take women off the show lol.


Sorry, you're in too deep.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

AEW Rampage

435,000 viewers
P18-49 rating: 0.14

WWE Smackdown

2,077,000 viewers
P18-49 rating: 0.47


Another rough week for the Friday Night Wars.


----------



## NathanMayberry

The 1 year anniversary of Rampage is fast approaching. I can't wait to see how much the Rampage audience has grown year over year,


----------



## GarpTheFist

Rampage is struggling to even reach 500k and yet wwe's developmental with no stars is regularly doing close to or over 600k. I don't understand how considering wwe don't even promote nxt while rampage always gets promoted on dynamite.


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

Teemu™ said:


> @DammitChrist Why did you rolleye me when I defended OC, and AEW's utilization of him? You make no sense.


He's obsessed with doing that, I'm starting to think he's got an emoji fetish or something. No lie I once got over 30 notifications in 1 day because he was going through my posts leaving eye rolling or laughing reactions. It's his way of being passive aggressive.


----------



## DammitChrist

GarpTheFist said:


> Rampage is struggling to even reach 500k and yet wwe's developmental with no stars is regularly doing close to or over 600k. I don't understand how considering wwe don't even promote nxt while rampage always gets promoted on dynamite.


It's almost like Rampage is stuck on the Friday night death slot (with the other disadvantage being that they went nearly 2 months of weekly time shifts to their schedule which ended up being another anchor to their viewership) whereas NXT 2.0 is broadcasted on prime time with significantly worse viewership compared to the last several months of Indy NXT last year.

You're comparing 2 shows that take place at completely different time slots that aren't even on the same day (with 1 of those shows not even having the same consistency at its *own* time slot too).

Why do you keep ignoring this true comparison, and why must this keep being repeated to you?



Don Draper's Ghost said:


> He's obsessed with doing that, I'm starting to think he's got an emoji fetish or something. No lie I once got over 30 notifications in 1 day because he was going through my posts leaving eye rolling or laughing reactions. It's his way of being passive aggressive.


None of this has *anything* to do with ratings talk.


----------



## GarpTheFist

NathanMayberry said:


> The 1 year anniversary of Rampage is fast approaching. I can't wait to see how much the Rampage audience has grown year over year,



We should make bets on if year on year numbers will be brought up or not 🤣


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

GarpTheFist said:


> We should make bets on if year on year numbers will be brought up or not 🤣


that’s a silly bet - you guys just brought it up and will again xD

unless….. you are saying….. your opinions shouldn’t count?


----------



## Whoanma

ElTerrible said:


> Orange Cassidy is the biggest draw in AEW.





LifeInCattleClass said:


> OC for the win


----------



## the_flock

Ultimo Duggan said:


> AEW can’t just discontinue the women’s division. It is also impossible to “shove it down our throats” when women are like 50.1% of the population. They obviously don’t make up half the fan base of AEW or at least the female audience doesn’t enjoy the constantly evolving AEW women’s division.
> 
> Aside from Britt and Jade nobody else is presented even half as strongly as the two AEW women with BIG personalities. When Mercedes Dos arrives in January or whatever they will finally have THREE. Thunder Rosa WAS on her way to that shortlist but several weak promos as champ have drastically diminished her aura.
> 
> Even if they don’t get Sasha the Smasha or Trinity Table AEW could NEVER just downplay the women and eventually shelve the division what with them broads in it. The bad “press” would overwhelm social media. The shitstorm would just cripple any attempts to defend the logic behind that decision.
> 
> I guess TK COULD just start a “sister” AEW in ALL ELITE WOMEN promotion. The argument could be that Japan does it that way…mostly. Creating an entirely female promotion on a YouTube or Rampage time slot will always look like demanding the ladies to lesser exposure. They would need to play up the division of the division as unique to North America. Yes, there are some places like SHIMMER and smaller groups prior to All Elite Women Wrestling existing. AEWW would run weekly though while places like SHIMMER hold giant tapings a few times annually.
> 
> It MIGHT work. Pushing it strongly MIGHT also accidentally allow the disinterested to tune out completely. None of this would go well with fans and fans who hate-watch online.



Said this before. Tony needs to cut the underperforming stars and build again, with the women it would be easy because they go under the radar in AEW.

AEW has Dynamite, Rampage and Dark, there's enough shows to feature the women.

The biggest issue for me is TK booking everything. He needs to bring in someone with pedigree who could manage and book the women and train those who are lacking. WWE have Molly Holly as a producer and Sara Del Rey as a trainer. AEW only have Indie male producers, so it's no surprise.

A couple of years ago,.Lisa Varon (Victoria) offered to work with AEW as a female producer...she was turned down

Awesome Long, Gail Kim, Mickie James, any of these would be decent.


----------



## the_flock

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Women’s wrestling just isn’t that exciting in general. Doesn’t help that AEW barely have any talents that can cut a promo. Thunder Rosa got too much hype here and looks like her reign is a total bust. Yet Britt got overexposed for over a year so they would he hesitant in putting the title back on her.
> 
> 
> Oops?


Doesn't help that Britt got more promo time than the rest of the women's roster put together. Doesn't help that Britt got.more airtime than all the women's champions put together. Doesn't help that the female referee gets more focus than the entire female division. Doesn't help that AEW doesn't promote their women's champion. Doesn't help that AEWs producers are all uncharismatic, vanilla male midgets. Doesn't help that the women have no female representation backstage. Doesn't help that TK who was obsessed with ECW growing up, who had no female representation, is booking the shows. Doesn't help that their female division comprises of all the dregs that the other promotions didn't want.


----------



## GarpTheFist

the_flock said:


> Said this before. Tony needs to cut the underperforming stars and build again, with the women it would be easy because they go under the radar in AEW.
> 
> AEW has Dynamite, Rampage and Dark, there's enough shows to feature the women.
> 
> The biggest issue for me is TK booking everything. He needs to bring in someone with pedigree who could manage and book the women and train those who are lacking. WWE have Molly Holly as a producer and Sara Del Rey as a trainer. AEW only have Indie male producers, so it's no surprise.
> 
> A couple of years ago,.Lisa Varon (Victoria) offered to work with AEW as a female producer...she was turned down
> 
> Awesome Long, Gail Kim, Mickie James, any of these would be decent.



It's bizzare that aew has all these veterans in the company yet they don't make use of them to book the show and give it a better structure.


----------



## the_flock

GarpTheFist said:


> It's bizzare that aew has all these veterans in the company yet they don't make use of them to book the show and give it a better structure.


Dean Malenko, Jerry Lynn - vanilla WCW midgets
Ace Steel, BJ Whitmer - ROH midgets
Pat Buck - Indie midget.

Mark Henry - Ethnic representation.

In the beginning they kinda did the right thing - Cody in charge of the singles wrestlers, The Bucks in charge of the tag division, Kenny, Awesome Kong and Brandi in charge of the women, then Kong left, Kenny pushed the Joshis and Brandi was terrible. Then somewhere along the line TK said fuck it and took control of everything.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

the_flock said:


> Doesn't help that Britt got more promo time than the rest of the women's roster put together. Doesn't help that Britt got.more airtime than all the women's champions put together. Doesn't help that the female referee gets more focus than the entire female division. Doesn't help that AEW doesn't promote their women's champion. Doesn't help that AEWs producers are all uncharismatic, vanilla male midgets. Doesn't help that the women have no female representation backstage. Doesn't help that TK who was obsessed with ECW growing up, who had no female representation, is booking the shows. Doesn't help that their female division comprises of all the dregs that the other promotions didn't want.



Ok? What does on-air promo time have to do with the lack of women currently capable of cutting a promo? Serena Deeb has been around for over 15 years. Thunder Rosa 8 years. Athena 15 years.


Is Britt to blame for veterans being dull on the mic?


----------



## the_flock

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Ok? What does on-air promo time have to do with the lack of women currently capable of cutting a promo? Serena Deeb has been around for over 15 years. Thunder Rosa 8 years. Athena 15 years.
> 
> 
> Is Britt to blame for veterans being dull on the mic?


It's well known that Britt gets prioritised. She gets regular introductions and interviews with Schiavone, gets scripted promos, gets hot spots that no others get etc etc.

In ring, she's one of the worst.


----------



## Irish Jet

GarpTheFist said:


> It's bizzare that aew has all these veterans in the company yet they don't make use of them to book the show and give it a better structure.


This show it literally Tony's masturbatory fantasies playing out on TV. It's a vanity project and no more. Him having total control is the point.


----------



## DammitChrist

the_flock said:


> Doesn't help that Britt got more promo time than the rest of the women's roster put together. Doesn't help that Britt got.more airtime than all the women's champions put together. Doesn't help that the female referee gets more focus than the entire female division. Doesn't help that AEW doesn't promote their women's champion. Doesn't help that AEWs producers are all uncharismatic, vanilla male midgets. Doesn't help that the women have no female representation backstage. Doesn't help that TK who was obsessed with ECW growing up, who had no female representation, is booking the shows. Doesn't help that their female division comprises of all the dregs that the other promotions didn't want.


Nah, AEW is filled with plenty of charismatic, smaller workrate guys in their talented roster


----------



## AttitudeEraTom

Hopefully this fucking trash nosedives in the ratings like it deserves. It’ll probably get 900K due to people being a bunch of dumb cunts and watching it despite everything, but we can only hope the following week does 700K or lower.

Anything to get it closer to being cancelled


----------



## Mr316

AttitudeEraTom said:


> Hopefully this fucking trash nosedives in the ratings like it deserves. It’ll probably get 900K due to people being a bunch of dumb cunts and watching it despite everything, but we can only hope the following week does 700K or lower.
> 
> Anything to get it closer to being cancelled


next week’s card looks like garbage too.


----------



## AttitudeEraTom

Mr316 said:


> next week’s card looks like garbage too.


Yup. Can’t be surprised anymore. 

Guess I’ll just watch some old WCW and weep for what used to be. It’s kinda sad sometimes.


----------



## DammitChrist

AttitudeEraTom said:


> Hopefully this fucking trash nosedives in the ratings like it deserves. It’ll probably get 900K due to people being a bunch of dumb cunts and watching it despite everything, but we can only hope the following week does 700K or lower.
> 
> Anything to get it closer to being cancelled


Thankfully, the ratings won’t nosedive since their overall audience continues to gradually grow as time goes on 

Honestly, WCW is old news, but at least we still have this show


----------



## AttitudeEraTom

DammitChrist said:


> Thankfully, the ratings won’t nosedive since their overall audience continues to gradually grow as time goes on


Yeah… I guess keep telling yourself that one. Lord where do we even start with this one?


----------



## Chan Hung

I'll be in the minority here.... i'm not a big fan of Ruby Riott..i still think she was an okay pickup due to recognition. Also Athena. I'm not saying they are game changers or great, but AEW's women division needs that boost and STILL DOES. If they sign Sasha Banks, then game on. They will add a major player. But they still need to push girls like Stratlander or however you spell it, Toni Storm, etc. They also need to do i think better storylines with the girls.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chan Hung said:


> I'll be in the minority here.... i'm not a big fan of Ruby Riott..i still think she was an okay pickup due to recognition. Also Athena. I'm not saying they are game changers or great, but AEW's women division needs that boost and STILL DOES. If they sign Sasha Banks, then game on. They will add a major player. But they still need to push girls like Stratlander or however you spell it, Toni Storm, etc. They also need to do i think better storylines with the girls.


You were close, dude!

Just remove the 1st “r” in Kris Statlander’s last name from your post, and boom, you’re good 👍


----------



## RainmakerV2

No numbers yet zomg


----------



## Aedubya

.88??


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 910,000
18-49: 0.32

Number one on cable for the fifth week running. Key demo the same as last week, viewership down on the last three weeks.

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

7/13: 942,000 / 0.32
7/6: 979,000 / 0.36
6/29: 1,023,000 / 0.36
6/22: 878,000 / 0.31
6/15: 761,000 / 0.28
6/8: 939,000 / 0.34
6/1: 969,000 / 0.40
5/25: 929,000 / 0.35


----------



## DUSTY 74




----------



## Chan Hung

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 910,000
> 18-49: 0.32
> 
> Number one on cable for the fifth week running. Key demo the same as last week, viewership down on the last three weeks.
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 7/13: 942,000 / 0.32
> 7/6: 979,000 / 0.36
> 6/29: 1,023,000 / 0.36
> 6/22: 878,000 / 0.31
> 6/15: 761,000 / 0.28
> 6/8: 939,000 / 0.34
> 6/1: 969,000 / 0.40
> 5/25: 929,000 / 0.35
> 
> View attachment 128221


So they did 910? Not horrible. But also a bit worrisome..you're getting very close to that 8 number and also since 6/29 they've been going down each week...its a trend so far and not a good one. If it continues it's in the 8's next week. I would recommend instead of throwing gimmick matches , focus on characters, promos and good storylines. While workrate is fine, leave more of that for the pay per view. TV time is crucial to develop talents, get people time to understand story and character. Too often they just put a match to wow a crowd just for a quick rating and also often too many of these on TV are green talent,.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Down again with a barbed wire match promoted to the gills lol. Eventually all these gimmick matches over and over have diminishing returns. Blood ain't cool when you see it every week.


----------



## Geert Wilders

RainmakerV2 said:


> Down again with a barbed wire match promoted to the gills lol. Eventually all these gimmick matches over and over have diminishing returns. Blood ain't cool when you see it every week.


Nah I dunno man. The product overall is just dead in the water. I think even if it was the first gimmick match in a year, people wouldn’t watch.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Geert Wilders said:


> Nah I dunno man. The product overall is just dead in the water. I think even if it was the first gimmick match in a year, people wouldn’t watch.



It's their typical " because we only have PPVs every 3 months, 2 months after one is just gonna be a bunch of filler until we have to build for the next one a month out" lull.


----------



## Geert Wilders

RainmakerV2 said:


> It's their typical " because we only have PPVs every 3 months, 2 months after one is just gonna be a bunch of filler until we have to build for the next one a month out" lull.


You’re definitely right. Me personally, I’ve not enjoyed the product properly for a whole year.

It’s lacked the guys I enjoyed watching. 
We had a massive push of NXT rejects. 
The storylines have been pretty abysmal.
BCC is trash. 
JAS is unnecessary.
Hangman pages first reign was the worst booked “top calibre” reign of all time. He was booked like a jobber with a transient reign.


----------



## Groose

"Dead in the water"

Number one on the night yet again


----------



## RainmakerV2

Geert Wilders said:


> You’re definitely right. Me personally, I’ve not enjoyed the product properly for a whole year.
> 
> It’s lacked the guys I enjoyed watching.
> We had a massive push of NXT rejects.
> The storylines have been pretty abysmal.
> BCC is trash.
> JAS is unnecessary.
> Hangman pages first reign was the worst booked “top calibre” reign of all time. He was booked like a jobber with a transient reign.



A lot of the warts have been covered up with 20 minute Punk or MJF promos and 30 minute Danielson matches. With those gone Khan actually has to write something and that hasn't looked too hot.


----------



## DammitChrist

The ex-NXT guys are great talents who deserve to be on TV.


----------



## Geert Wilders

RainmakerV2 said:


> A lot of the warts have been covered up with 20 minute Punk or MJF promos and 30 minute Danielson matches. With those gone Khan actually has to write something and that hasn't looked too hot.


Mind blown. I didn’t even think of things like this. He used them as plasters.


----------



## Geert Wilders

DammitChrist said:


> The ex-NXT guys are great talents who deserve to be on TV.


for you, but I’m talking about my own enjoyment. Don’t get why people get so upset if I don’t like their favourites.


----------



## DammitChrist

The product is entertaining enough already.

The sooner that the likes of CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Samoa Joe, Adam Cole, Pac, Kyle O'Reilly, and even Bobby Fish make their returns on TV; the more fun that these upcoming shows will end up becoming


----------



## RainmakerV2

Groose said:


> "Dead in the water"
> 
> Number one on the night yet again



Who said they were dead?


----------



## Groose

RainmakerV2 said:


> Who said they were dead?



You literally quoted a comment that said it my guy


----------



## Geert Wilders

DammitChrist said:


> The product is entertaining enough already.
> 
> The sooner that the likes of CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Samoa Joe, Adam Cole, Pac, Kyle O'Reilly, and even Bobby Fish make their returns on TV; the more fun that these upcoming shows will end up becoming


sure. The matches might improve. But the storylines need to be better.


----------



## Geeee

seems to me they are hemorrhaging 50+ but all the other numbers are in the green.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Groose said:


> You literally quoted a comment that said it my guy



He said the product to him is dead in the water. Not that the rating is shit or that they're going out of business lol. He doesn't like the current direction of the product. Everyone here seems to think RAW is the worst wrestling show to ever exist yet its still number 1 almost every week.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> He said the product to him is dead in the water. Not that the rating is shit or that they're going out of business lol. He doesn't like the current direction of the product. *Everyone here seems to think RAW is the worst wrestling show to ever exist yet its still number 1 almost every week.*


Yea, I don't agree with that viewpoint at all here 

I think Raw is WWE's 2nd best weekly show (behind NXT UK) quality-wise nowadays.

They deserve even better viewership just like Dynamite does too.


----------



## Geert Wilders

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, I don't agree with that viewpoint at all here
> 
> I think Raw is WWE's 2nd best weekly show (behind NXT UK) quality-wise nowadays.
> 
> They deserve even better viewership just like Dynamite does too.


You seem to enjoy everything. Tbh I wish I could enjoy wrestling more like you.

I think my standards are just different as I grew up on 90s + attitude era.


----------



## Jedah

RainmakerV2 said:


> Down again with a barbed wire match promoted to the gills lol. Eventually all these gimmick matches over and over have diminishing returns. Blood ain't cool when you see it every week.


Exactly. It's becoming trashy backyard wrestling at this point. The shock value is gone.

It's a good rating all things considered.


----------



## DammitChrist

Geert Wilders said:


> You seem to enjoy everything. Tbh I wish I could enjoy wrestling more like you.
> 
> I think my standards are just different as I grew up on 90s + attitude era.


Oh, that’s just me focusing on the positives of current wrestling 

I dislike the overall direction of NXT 2.0 (along with what it represents now), and I *hate* Smackdown nowadays.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Trash 

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## The real Axel

And back under 900k next week after that disgrace of a main event. Dark days for the Dubbalos.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Trash
> 
> 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


You’re wrong since it was the highest rated program on cable last night 😂

The show is truly entertaining btw


----------



## KrysRaw1

They say the ratings are a week behind. Next week they'll be below 850 then since last nights show was awful.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Geeee said:


> seems to me they are hemorrhaging 50+ but all the other numbers are in the green.


That doesn't sound like a bad thing to me. The 50+ is like the cherry on the Sundae. Still tastes good whether you have one or not.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

DammitChrist said:


> You’re wrong since it was the highest rated program on cable last night 😂
> 
> The show is truly entertaining btw


I can't understand how they still don't get it. IT'S BEEN 3 YEARS!!!!! If total viewers is the end all be all then why wasn't Tucker Carlson #1? He nearly had 4 million people watch him last night.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, that’s just me focusing on the positives of current wrestling
> 
> I dislike the overall direction of NXT 2.0 (along with what it represents now), and I *hate* Smackdown nowadays.


Yeah there's nothing worse than giving developing talent a platform to ply their trade. Damn that NXT for not sticking to losing money for nearly a decade while trying to be Evolve with a large budget.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> You’re wrong since it was the highest rated program on cable last night 😂
> 
> The show is truly entertaining btw


Nah they're trash, AEW is in the mud and they'll be close to dead in a few years time.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Disappointing demo for sure. MJF, Danielson, Omega, Punk are needed back. Yesterday was the first show that you can’t blame New Japan influence on suppressing the numbers.

AEW seems to have a core audience of 0.30 but they need their full roster to get in the 0.40-0.45 range. The poor shows the last several weeks haven’t helped. AEW fans aren’t gonna watch wwe lite with the b squad of the roster


----------



## Randy Lahey

Geeee said:


> seems to me they are hemorrhaging 50+ but all the other numbers are in the green.


The 50+ watching Raw and not watching Dynamite is staggering

Raw did a 0.90 in 50+
Dynamite did a 0.37 in 50+.
Even NXT did a 0.34 in 50+

Basically if you are over 50+ and have been indoctrinated in WWE wrestling for 30+ years, you aren’t going to watch any other wrestling. 

But it actually does make sense. Given how bad Raw is, if you are over 50+ and are still watching at this point, then you’ll literally watch anything WWE makes and not seek out other wrestling shows


----------



## La Parka

Almost in the 800s and they promoted a barbed wired main event.

No MLB, no NFL, No NBA and no NHL.

Not good.


----------



## Seafort

DUSTY 74 said:


> View attachment 128223
> 
> View attachment 128222


Next week will be under 840K


----------



## Shaz Cena

Geert Wilders said:


> I think my standards are just different as I grew up on 90s + attitude era.


What's stopping AEW from bring Attitude Era back? Like they can literally do anything. 

Dax Harwood = Stone Cold Steve Austin : His catch phrase "My daughter"

Ricky Starks = The Rock: He's already got his version of the People's elbow.

Wardlow = Goldburg: The guy is big with intensity!


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

Doesn't surprise me, AEW has been simless with a bunch of special events. Nothing is interesting


----------



## SeiyaKanie

Cody outdraws dynamite?


----------



## Mister Sinister

Maybe people don't watch for cold matches and self mutilation...


----------



## RogueSlayer

A show with hardly any storylines and random matches is never gonna do great ratings, as long as Tony Khan is in charge of AEW they will never grow their audience because the show is catered towards marks.


----------



## kingfunkel

It didn't even deserve 800k. That show was awful and it has been for weeks now. 
CM Punk and MJF were carrying this show and since Punk's injury the quality of the product has dropped severally. Including the segments he wasn't involved in. 

AEW is still a relatively new show, it won't get many 2nd and 3rd chances with the casual viewer. I'm a big time wrestling fan and I have to record it because I can't sit through a full Dynamite... Even with a fast forward button, it takes 2 to 3 goes.


----------



## GarpTheFist

They have been going down ever since the big gimmick of B&G match proving that that's the only way they will get over a million nowadays or a big debut/return. Next week will probably be under 900k given the mess that was the main event between jericho and kingston.


----------



## fabi1982

La Parka said:


> Almost in the 800s and they promoted a barbed wired main event.
> 
> No MLB, no NFL, No NBA and no NHL.
> 
> Not good.


Bbbbbbbbbbbbbut the ESPYS!!!!!!


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

SeiyaKanie said:


> Cody outdraws dynamite?


?? Our favorite midcarder is a draw, brother.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Groose said:


> "Dead in the water"
> 
> Number one on the night yet again


i don't know you, but i like you XD


----------



## Irish Jet

Down over 20% from last year.

Wow.


----------



## 3venflow

Last seven days on cable ranked by key demo. If pro wrestling is dead, I guess damn near everything else is too (including Better Call Saul). 

RAW was also down 18% in 18-49 and 8% in P2+ YoY but guess what, cable is losing viewers by the tens of thousands, and both pro wrestling companies are doing well *contextually*.


----------



## Seafort

Shaz Cena said:


> What's stopping AEW from bring Attitude Era back? Like they can literally do anything.
> 
> Dax Harwood = Stone Cold Steve Austin : His catch phrase "My daughter"
> 
> Ricky Starks = The Rock: He's already got his version of the People's elbow.
> 
> Wardlow = Goldburg: The guy is big with intensity!


LOL…although yes, Starks has always reminded me of 1997 Rock.

What established the Attitude Era was breaking barriers and setting new trends. Vince McMahon bucked USA requests and bet a lot on going in a adult direction with Springer themes. Tony Khan faces immediate cancellation if he steps over the line, and because of the modern economics of wrestling that means the end of AEW (or WWE if the Raw and Smackdown deals were cancelled).


----------



## RapShepard




----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Raw went head to head with the MLB HR Derby and still did considerably better in the demo. Crazy.


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


>


I popped in this thread for the first time in a while and I jumped right to the most recent posts. How did we get to this exactly? I have more questions depending on your answers.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Showstopper said:


> Raw went head to head with the MLB HR Derby and still did considerably better in the demo. Crazy.



Demo doesn't matter unless it does better than Raw. The new thing now is "being number 1" on the night.


----------



## RapShepard

Prized Fighter said:


> I popped in this thread for the first time in a while and I jumped right to the most recent posts. How did we get to this exactly? I have more questions depending on your answers.


Lmao I just thought it was ridiculous and had to share it.


----------



## Kishido

So now demo doesn't matter just being Numero 1 unopposed.

So all the stuff by Tony and Demo God Jericho was just shit talking.


----------



## RainmakerV2

RapShepard said:


>



Wtf lmao


----------



## .christopher.

Kishido said:


> So now demo doesn't matter just being Numero 1 unopposed.
> 
> So all the stuff by Tony and Demo God Jericho was just shit talking.


Standard goalpost shifting. It’s like when they say a million viewers don’t matter. Go back and look at the ratings thread after Sting debuted and everyone was throwing babies in the air celebrating getting over a mil.


----------



## 3venflow

Kishido said:


> So now demo doesn't matter just being Numero 1 unopposed.


What does this even mean? They're number one because of the demo, it's ranked by demo. Demo does matter and has always mattered since they started - something a few of us have emphasized from the very beginning while people argue over +/- 20,000 people (keep in mind that there are about 42,000 Nielsen households so in reality, these shows could be doing more or less than they are since that sample size will never be 100% accurate - and then there's DVR) here and there from a flawed counting system. High viewerships are easy on the eye, but you've a better chance of getting cancelled with 1.2m and 0.20 in the 18-49 than 900k and 0.35 in the 18-49, unless you're a news show or something.

Obviously they'd want that 18-49 number higher because it's called the 'sales demo' for a reason, but finishing #1 out of several thousand cable shows on any given day is good - finishing #1 five weeks in a row even better.

RAW, Smackdown and Dynamite are unquestionable successes in the 2022 climate. This should not even be an argument at this point. If you compare them to 2000, 2005 or 2010 it'd look bad, but then look at the data and they're doing well within today's context. We had the doom-mongering about the Warner Discovery merger and the outcome... afterparty hosted by the new bosses at The Forum, synergy with Shark Week, ROH PPVs moved to Warner-owned B/R Live, regular press releases celebrating #1 on cable. Seems AEW is doing something right with their numbers.

Their total viewerships are nothing special (Smackdown is on broadcast and often right down total viewership but nearly always first or second in 18-49), but that doesn't matter and there are small budget shows that rank around 110 in the Nielsen ratings that can often RAW and Dynamite in total viewership. They all get enough viewers to command dominant shares of the 18-49 and that's why they'll probably get better deals *again* next time around.

There's so much toxic / bad faith bullshit on this board that people get caught up in their own narratives (what they want to be true) and ignore the real situation. AEW and WWE are doing well on the TV side (WWE comes with higher expectations obviously but their deals speak for themselves), that's a fact.


----------



## Geeee

GarpTheFist said:


> Demo doesn't matter unless it does better than Raw. The new thing now is "being number 1" on the night.


Number 1 on the night is ranked by demo.

Also, I don't think Dynamite has ever beaten Raw head to head in the demo. So, basically everything in your post is wrong.

Ranking by demo also helps WWE, otherwise Fox News is #1 in total viewers every night


----------



## 3venflow

Geeee said:


> Ranking by demo also helps WWE, otherwise Fox News is #1 in total viewers every night


Between the big four (ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX) last Friday, Smackdown in primetime ranked:

Number one (of eight) in the 18-49
Number six (of eight) in total viewership

If total viewers were the priority, Smackdown would be a cancellation risk because this is common. But they're quite the opposite, because of the 18-49.

The same goes for Dynamite and RAW on cable. Outnumbered on FOX News (51st in the 18-49) did more average viewers than RAW on Monday, but I doubt it'll be commanding $1bn or whatever come renewal time.


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


> Lmao I just thought it was ridiculous and had to share it.


Now my follow up is where did you find that? The Internet is a weird place, so it could be anywhere. Lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Last seven days on cable ranked by key demo. If pro wrestling is dead, I guess damn near everything else is too (including Better Call Saul).
> 
> RAW was also down 18% in 18-49 and 8% in P2+ YoY but guess what, cable is losing viewers by the tens of thousands, and both pro wrestling companies are doing well *contextually*.
> 
> View attachment 128246


people are really underselling ‘number 1 on the night’ IMO

wrestling is in a good spot


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> people are really underselling ‘number 1 on the night’ IMO
> 
> wrestling is in a good spot


Yep, AEW’s audience is obviously continuing to grow steadily.

We’re still early into the ongoing NJPW G1 tournament atm.

Plus, there’s a big ROH ppv taking place tomorrow night too.

Professional wrestling is in a pretty good place right now, and that’s undeniable


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, AEW’s audience is obviously continuing to grow steadily.
> 
> We’re still early into the ongoing NJPW G1 tournament atm.
> 
> Plus, there’s a big ROH ppv taking place tomorrow night too.
> 
> Professional wrestling is in a pretty good place right now, and that’s undeniable


its always funny once you have a conversation about weekly tickets being sold

and people realise we have 3 shows doing 5000 - 8000 tickets each weekly

which is the same or higher than the attitude / wcw era

It always goes very quiet afterwards xD


----------



## Randy Lahey

I definitely think the drop in viewership on Cable TV will inevitably lead to Cable TV paying less for the content they put on their station. If you have fewer people watching, that’s means less you can charge for ads. Less ad revenue means less money to buy shows with. 

I think Dynamite is definitely priced appropriately in this market. It’s WWE that is massively overpriced given their demo drops since the time their current deal was negotiated. #1 or not in demo, you’re paying for viewers when you buy a TV show. Even if every other show also drops that only makes you look good in comparison to them. Sure wrestling is doing good vs other shows, but if the entire platform (cable tv shows) are down then the cable tv shows are losing value to advertisers and cable channels themselves.

I think wrestling’s last big payday is to hope these streamers (Apple, Amazon, Paramount, Netflix, ESPN+, HBO Max, Peacock) overpay for content in an attempt to build their market share. Nick Khan already ripped off Peacock (they’ve lost over a billion dollars) and we’ll see if Tony Khan will do the same thing. Get the steaming services to bid up the price.

I think Cable TV is dying and Warner knows it which is why they’ve stopped new production on a lot of Discovery shows. Simply can’t afford them


----------



## NathanMayberry

GarpTheFist said:


> Demo doesn't matter unless it does better than Raw. The new thing now is "being number 1" on the night.


Only until the summer ends and when the new seasons begin, the new excuses will commence and being number 1 on TV will go the way of that amazing year-over-year growth.

Success is being #1 when there's no competition, shrinking audience be damned. It means they'll stay there forever and you are a bot for daring to say anything other than positive things about AEW. Nothing should be done differently, Dynamite was #1.


----------



## Soul Rex

Wrestling is always suppose to be top show on cable, look at the shows it competes against, none have a bigger weekly budget.

But it always folds when it goes against legit competition, meaning nobody gives a shit about it unless there is nothing else to watch.


----------



## validreasoning

3venflow said:


> Between the big four (ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX) last Friday, Smackdown in primetime ranked:
> 
> Number one (of eight) in the 18-49
> Number six (of eight) in total viewership
> 
> If total viewers were the priority, Smackdown would be a cancellation risk because this is common. But they're quite the opposite, because of the 18-49.


No it wouldn't. UFC on Fox which SD replaced drew lower viewership than SD for last 2 years of its run between 2017-19 and FOX offered them double their previous deal to stay, UFC wanted 4.5 times and left.. 

Also SD does pretty much identical viewership as live MLB games Saturday night on Fox and those games are always huge rivalry games ie Redsox vs Yankees, Giants vs Dodgers 



> The same goes for Dynamite and RAW on cable. Outnumbered on FOX News (51st in the 18-49) did more average viewers than RAW on Monday, but I doubt it'll be commanding $1bn or whatever come renewal time.


Outnumbered is FOX produced show so not apples to apples comparison at all.

FOX News shows command gigantic advertising fees and main anchors are paid astronomical amounts of money. Tucker Carlson alone Fox pays $35-40 million per year (puts Lesnars $5 million into the shade).


----------



## validreasoning

Randy Lahey said:


> I definitely think the drop in viewership on Cable TV will inevitably lead to Cable TV paying less for the content they put on their station. If you have fewer people watching, that’s means less you can charge for ads. Less ad revenue means less money to buy shows with.


Every major sport even fucking F1 (i didn't know anyone in the US watches F1) got big rights increase in recent years. 

Less people watch TV year after year. That's not going to stop the demand for certain content. 



> I think Dynamite is definitely priced appropriately in this market.


Define appropriate. 



> It’s WWE that is massively overpriced given their demo drops since the time their current deal was negotiated.


Current WWE tv deals had little to nothing to do with demo. If demo was reason networks bid on WWE content they would have gotten big tv deals in 2009 and 2014 when their demos were far higher than 2019 yet they had to settle for lower deals. 



> #1 or not in demo, you’re paying for viewers when you buy a TV show. Even if every other show also drops that only makes you look good in comparison to them. Sure wrestling is doing good vs other shows, but if the entire platform (cable tv shows) are down then the cable tv shows are losing value to advertisers and cable channels themselves.


If you are #1 you are #1 end of 



> I think wrestling’s last big payday is to hope these streamers (Apple, Amazon, Paramount, Netflix, ESPN+, HBO Max, Peacock) overpay for content in an attempt to build their market share.


Next decade will still be tv deals not streaming. Netflix are dying slow death, ESPN probably don't want fake wrasslin, HBO is Turner, peacock is NBC. Rest not a chance they bid. 



> Nick Khan already ripped off Peacock (they’ve lost over a billion dollars) and we’ll see if Tony Khan will do the same thing. Get the steaming services to bid up the price.


Rip off how? Network was generating ~$200m a year and Peacock paid 1b for 5. How was that a rip off, if anything NBC got great deal because they spend nothing to produce the content that's still all on WWE and it's got a much bigger global reach than a small family run promotions streaming service could ever provide. 

ESPN+ paid far more for UFC with alot less value. 

Wrestlemania was second most watched thing ever on Peacock. 



> I think Cable TV is dying and Warner knows it which is why they’ve stopped new production on a lot of Discovery shows. Simply can’t afford them


They stopped because of the ridiculous takeover. Billions of debt is now on the head of company so obviously cuts and big cuts across the board will have to be made


----------



## TD Stinger

The main thing I've noticed is that Cable TV has crashed a lot during the Summer, but WWE and AEW (even if they dropped some viewership themselves) has been able to remain at the top of the charts as of late.

But of course, then the Fall is going to come and the NFL, College Football, and the NBA, along with new seasons of shows starting, are going to change that.


----------



## Wolf Mark

RapShepard said:


>


Damn we have found the solution for all the crazy feminists and SJWs.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

3venflow said:


> Last seven days on cable ranked by key demo. If pro wrestling is dead, I guess damn near everything else is too (including Better Call Saul).
> 
> RAW was also down 18% in 18-49 and 8% in P2+ YoY but guess what, cable is losing viewers by the tens of thousands, and both pro wrestling companies are doing well *contextually*.
> 
> View attachment 128246


Better Call Saul has been losing viewers since season 1.


----------



## 3venflow

9,400 tickets have been sold in the early sales for Grand Slam in September (735 on resale), per WrestleTix.


----------



## TD Stinger

I imagine Grand Slam will eventually sell out but it's not going to be the instant thing it was last year since it's no longer a 1st time thing.


----------



## Dark Emperor

TD Stinger said:


> The main thing I've noticed is that Cable TV has crashed a lot during the Summer, but WWE and AEW (even if they dropped some viewership themselves) has been able to remain at the top of the charts as of late.
> 
> But of course, then the Fall is going to come and the NFL, College Football, and the NBA, along with new seasons of shows starting, are going to change that.


Honestly, wrestling has been doing really well ratings wise. It kills basically all non sports shows on Cable. Its also cheaper per episode to the Networks and it's every single week. I really don't see either shows struggling to get a better deal unless advertisers really hate wrestling.



3venflow said:


> 9,400 tickets have been sold in the early sales for Grand Slam in September (735 on resale), per WrestleTix.


Wasn't this the show that sold 20k last year almost instantly? Quite interesting they haven't sold half that yet. I dont think it will be a sellout but massive crowd either way.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 428,000
18-49: 0.17

Highest P18-49 rating since April, which put it in sixth place on cable.

*Last two months*:

7/15: 435,000 / 0.14
7/8: 428,000 / 0.15
7/1: 486,000 / 0.16 (Royal Rampage)
6/24: 422,000 / 0.12
6/17: 331,000 / 0.10
6/10: 476,000 / 0.16
6/3: 475,000 / 0.14
5/27: 341,000 / 0.14


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551663128106209286
* Rampage continues to be completely skippable television.*


----------



## CovidFan

Rampage holding steady. Good stuff.


----------



## Araxen

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewers: 428,000
> 18-49: 0.17
> 
> Highest P18-49 rating since April, which put it in sixth place on cable.
> 
> *Last two months*:
> 
> 7/15: 435,000 / 0.14
> 7/8: 428,000 / 0.15
> 7/1: 486,000 / 0.16 (Royal Rampage)
> 6/24: 422,000 / 0.12
> 6/17: 331,000 / 0.10
> 6/10: 476,000 / 0.16
> 6/3: 475,000 / 0.14
> 5/27: 341,000 / 0.14
> 
> View attachment 128480


They would have made the top 5 if it wasn't for Live PD(now known as On Patrol: Live) coming back. On Patrol: Live will be #1 in a week or two. Rampage won't sniff the top 5 ever again.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 976,000
18-49: 0.33

Number two on cable, with MLB (Yankees/Mets) ending Dynamite's five-week run on top.

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

7/20: 910,000 / 0.32
7/13: 942,000 / 0.32
7/6: 979,000 / 0.36
6/29: 1,023,000 / 0.36 (Blood & Guts)
6/22: 878,000 / 0.31
6/15: 761,000 / 0.28
6/8: 939,000 / 0.34
6/1: 969,000 / 0.40


----------



## Prosper

Todo bien!


----------



## fabi1982

So with AEW fans logic of „last weeks show makes this weeks ratings“ last weeks show must have been great to awesome.


----------



## Prosper

fabi1982 said:


> So with AEW fans logic of „last weeks show makes this weeks ratings“ last weeks show must have been great to awesome.


That's the argument given by the detractors actually. Last week's show was pretty bad. But maybe others didn't think so. 

My argument is that people are smart enough to look up the card and decide whether they want to watch or not. Obviously every show is different.


----------



## DammitChrist

That's yet another strong rating for them


----------



## RapShepard

Good shit for them

The rating charts are hilarious though lol. There's really a mother fucker nicknamed Dr. Pimple Popper who really just delivering a top 15 cable show every week lol. 

Y'all think he got TV groupies and Dr groupies???


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> So with AEW fans logic of „last weeks show makes this weeks ratings“ last weeks show must have been great to awesome.


that is a 'critic' argument buddy XD

thanks for proving them wrong


----------



## RapShepard

And also why the fuck is Shark Week still a thing. What the fuck else is there to learn and see about sharks . Shits been on since I was in elementary school 20 years ago surely we've exhausted all the shark based facts and TV ideas. Why can't we learn about fucking hippos or something. They be putting mother fuckers the fuck down like sharks pretend to do.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> And also why the fuck is Shark Week still a thing. What the fuck else is there to learn and see about sharks . Shits been on since I was in elementary school 20 years ago surely we've exhausted all the shark based facts and TV ideas. Why can't we learn about fucking hippos or something. They be putting mother fuckers the fuck down like sharks pretend to do.


hippos are legit scary MFers

Warthogs too - don't fuck with them, they're not friendly

Apes will also disembowel someone in a 'fuck around and find out' sorta way


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> And also why the fuck is Shark Week still a thing. What the fuck else is there to learn and see about sharks . Shits been on since I was in elementary school 20 years ago surely we've exhausted all the shark based facts and TV ideas. Why can't we learn about fucking hippos or something. They be putting mother fuckers the fuck down like sharks pretend to do.


Lol they should replace it with new "Plant Earth" episodes, then at least we'd be learning about the entire ecosystem every year


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> hippos are legit scary MFers
> 
> Warthogs too - don't fuck with them, they're not friendly
> 
> Apes will also disembowel someone in a 'fuck around and find out' sorta way


Yeah like let one of them get that shark shine. 

Finding out Hippos really give it up was definitely one of the more surprising factoids I've learned lol.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> Lol they should replace it with new "Plant Earth" episodes, then at least we'd be learning about the entire ecosystem every year


Something, anything lol. How many more shark cages can be lowered, with nobody getting finished off before we call foul as a country lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Yeah like let one of them get that shark shine.
> 
> Finding out Hippos really give it up was definitely one of the more surprising factoids I've learned lol.


we were once on a safari and one of those massive shits came out of the lake and just wandered around the golf course

they basically shut the place down until it decided to finish its walk

when we wanted a closer look, the ranger just gently nudged us back and did the 'no...don't' nod XD


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> we were once on a safari and one of those massive shits came out of the lake and just wandered around the golf course
> 
> they basically shut the place down until it decided to finish its walk
> 
> when we wanted a closer look, the ranger just gently nudged us back and did the 'no...don't' nod XD


That's some real power right there . Just ruin a whole groups outting lol


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Viewership and Demo up despite people hating last weeks show despite beng #2 on the night/ Definitely a better show IMO and I don't mind Garcia winning, Hook/Starks/Hobbs all kinda elevated in that segment. Who knew Jungle Boy could pull off the promo he did.


----------



## D Z

The cracks are off the rose.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Decent number given it was up against a big Mets/Yankees game. 

Hopefully with it being a great show it’ll get more people to tune in next week


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Under a million? Close the doors.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Under a million? Close the doors.*


Do they even have doors? Don't imagine they can afford them if they're getting under a million viewership.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Under a million? Close the doors.*



28th July, 2021 - 1,110,000


This is AEW’s version of progress. 😉


----------



## redban

Randy Lahey said:


> Decent number given it was up against a big Mets/Yankees game.
> 
> Hopefully with it being a great show it’ll get more people to tune in next week


I am a huge baseball fan— unlike nationally televised NFL or NBA games, nationally televised baseball games do *not* draw big viewers. Baseball is a provincial game: people watch the games only when their own teams are playing. To say that the Mets / Yankees game would be an especial competition for AEW’s Dynamite isn’t accurate. The only ones watching that game are, generally, Yankees and Mets fans. Those people have always watched the Mets or Yankees games every Wednesday anyways


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Hotdiggity11 said:


> 28th July, 2021 - 1,110,000
> 
> 
> This is AEW’s version of progress. 😉


*40 signings later and 135,000 viewers lost! Great investment! *


----------



## Hotdiggity11

A “big” Mets/Yankees game in July. 🤣


----------



## La Parka

Hotdiggity11 said:


> A “big” Mets/Yankees game in July. 🤣


the superbowl of baseball games.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

La Parka said:


> the superbowl of baseball games.



Over 60 regular season games to go. It’s getting heated!


----------



## DammitChrist

Dynamite continuing to thrive in the ratings, especially due to the fact that their numbers evidently increased over the last couple of weeks.

You'd love to see their obvious growth


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

RapShepard said:


> And also why the fuck is Shark Week still a thing. What the fuck else is there to learn and see about sharks . Shits been on since I was in elementary school 20 years ago surely we've exhausted all the shark based facts and TV ideas. Why can't we learn about fucking hippos or something. They be putting mother fuckers the fuck down like sharks pretend to do.


You are right about Shark Week but it's been on since the summer of '88. They have exhausted all their ideas and had the cast of Jackass messing around with sharks the last two years. I have no use for it but my brother is always super hyped for it.

As far as Dynamite goes, good rating and the summer is their time to shine. Sadly for AEW, pro wrestling isn't really essential viewing, meaning that is the thing you must watch first before all else. In the regular tv season, they aren't priority viewing but fare better when the competition is less.


----------



## Mister Sinister

It's safe to say they blew the post PPV swell.


----------



## fabi1982

Prosper said:


> That's the argument given by the detractors actually. Last week's show was pretty bad. But maybe others didn't think so.
> 
> My argument is that people are smart enough to look up the card and decide whether they want to watch or not. Obviously every show is different.


I‘ actually too lazy to look thet up, but I am pretty sure that with a good show and a bad rating, that always the last weeks bad show is blamed for that bad rating. I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure. Mostly used by blind hardcore lovers.

Edit: just look at Randy last page and this funkel guy on this page basically proving my point?


----------



## kingfunkel

I have to say after last week's awful show, I'm surprised the number was this high. 

They need Punk back, even as an onscreen personality.


----------



## Teemu™

Prosper said:


> That's the argument given by the detractors actually. Last week's show was pretty bad. But maybe others didn't think so.
> 
> My argument is that people are smart enough to look up the card and decide whether they want to watch or not. Obviously every show is different.


You really think people look up a fucking match card, and decide whether or not they're going to watch a TV show? That's hilarious.


----------



## Aedubya

WrestlingInc nonchalantly reporting another positive AEW rating 

They really are team WWE regardless of anything


----------



## RapShepard

THE MAN.THE MYTH.THE SHIV.THE END. said:


> You are right about Shark Week but it's been on since the summer of '88. They have exhausted all their ideas and had the cast of Jackass messing around with sharks the last two years. I have no use for it but my brother is always super hyped for it.


Holy shit I didn't know it went back before my birth [emoji23]


----------



## 3venflow

*Highs* and lows highlighted.

Q1: Jon Moxley vs. Rush – 1,023,000 viewers, 418,000 in 18-49
Q2: End of Moxley vs. Rush/Chris Jericho challenges Moxley/Dante Martin promo – *1,094,000 viewers* (up 71,000), 463,000 in 18-49 (up 45,000)
Q3: Ricky Starks vs. Danhausen/Ricky Starks vs. HOOK/Powerhouse Hobbs turn/Acclaimed promo – 1,046,000 viewers (down 48,000), 454,000 in 18-49 (down 9,000)
Q4: Sammy Guevara vs. Dante Martin/Daniel Garcia promo/Jay Lethal, Sonjay Dutt, Satnam Singh & Best Friends segment – 995,000 viewers (down 51,000), 430,000 in 18-49 (down 24,000)
Q5: Jungle Boy & Christian Cage segment/Young Bucks, Hangman Page & Dark Order segment/Swerve Strickland vs. Tony Nese & Mark Sterling – 1,008,000 viewers (up 13,000), *464,000 in 18-49* (up 34,000)
Q6: End of Strickland vs. Nese & Sterling/House of Black promo/Thunder Rosa vs. Miyu Yamashita – 892,000 viewers (down 116,000), 423,000 in 18-49 (down 41,000)
Q7: End of Rosa vs. Yamashita – 847,000 viewers (down 45,000), 408,000 in 18-49 (down 15,000)
Q8: Bryan Danielson vs. Daniel Garcia – 902,000 viewers (up 55,000), 432,000 in 18-49 (up 24,000)

-

More notes per the WON:

Dynamite had been at #1 for the past five weeks, but that ended this time thanks to the New York Yankees vs. New York Mets game on ESPN, which had 2,120,000 viewers and a 0.50. However, AEW did manage to beat ABC and NBC, which aired reruns. The second hour beat FOX.

The show was #9 in women 18-49, #2 in men 18-49, #2 in 18-34, #4 in women 12-34 and #3 in men 12-34. Compared to last week, it was up 7.3% in viewers, up 3.1% in 18-49 and up 22.7% in 18-34. Compared to last year, however, it was down 11.9% in viewers, down 26.5% in 18-49 and down 16.1% in 18-34.

AEW had 91,000 viewers in men 18-34 (up 46.8%), 71,000 in women 18-34 (up 14.5%), 199,000 in men 35-49 (down 5.2%) and 76,000 in women 35-49 (down 14.6%). The audience was 66.4% male in 18-49. It had an 0.13 in 12-17 (up 30%), 0.23 in 18-34 (up 22.7%), 0.43 in 35-49 (down 8%) and 0.41 in 50+ (up 10.8%).

The best quarters for men were two, five and eight. For women 18-34, the peak was Q5, while women 35-49 peaked in Q3. Q2 was also the peak in total viewers. Q5 was the peak in 18-49.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Women lost over 100,000 viewers again…that’s over 10% audience leaving and not coming back.

Please kill it Tony


----------



## Mr316

Women match was a disaster. Thunder Rosa shouldn’t be champ. Put the belt back on Britt ASAP.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Rosa is a fuckin disaster. Gotta get the belt off her.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *Highs* and lows highlighted.
> 
> Q1: Jon Moxley vs. Rush – 1,023,000 viewers, 418,000 in 18-49
> Q2: End of Moxley vs. Rush/Chris Jericho challenges Moxley/Dante Martin promo – *1,094,000 viewers* (up 71,000), 463,000 in 18-49 (up 45,000)
> Q3: Ricky Starks vs. Danhausen/Ricky Starks vs. HOOK/Powerhouse Hobbs turn/Acclaimed promo – 1,046,000 viewers (down 48,000), 454,000 in 18-49 (down 9,000)
> Q4: Sammy Guevara vs. Dante Martin/Daniel Garcia promo/Jay Lethal, Sonjay Dutt, Satnam Singh & Best Friends segment – 995,000 viewers (down 51,000), 430,000 in 18-49 (down 24,000)
> Q5: Jungle Boy & Christian Cage segment/Young Bucks, Hangman Page & Dark Order segment/Swerve Strickland vs. Tony Nese & Mark Sterling – 1,008,000 viewers (up 13,000), *464,000 in 18-49* (up 34,000)
> Q6: End of Strickland vs. Nese & Sterling/House of Black promo/Thunder Rosa vs. Miyu Yamashita – 892,000 viewers (down 116,000), 423,000 in 18-49 (down 41,000)
> Q7: End of Rosa vs. Yamashita – 847,000 viewers (down 45,000), 408,000 in 18-49 (down 15,000)
> Q8: Bryan Danielson vs. Daniel Garcia – 902,000 viewers (up 55,000), 432,000 in 18-49 (up 24,000)
> 
> -
> 
> More notes per the WON:
> 
> Dynamite had been at #1 for the past five weeks, but that ended this time thanks to the New York Yankees vs. New York Mets game on ESPN, which had 2,120,000 viewers and a 0.50. However, AEW did manage to beat ABC and NBC, which aired reruns. The second hour beat FOX.
> 
> The show was #9 in women 18-49, #2 in men 18-49, #2 in 18-34, #4 in women 12-34 and #3 in men 12-34. Compared to last week, it was up 7.3% in viewers, up 3.1% in 18-49 and up 22.7% in 18-34. Compared to last year, however, it was down 11.9% in viewers, down 26.5% in 18-49 and down 16.1% in 18-34.
> 
> AEW had 91,000 viewers in men 18-34 (up 46.8%), 71,000 in women 18-34 (up 14.5%), 199,000 in men 35-49 (down 5.2%) and 76,000 in women 35-49 (down 14.6%). The audience was 66.4% male in 18-49. It had an 0.13 in 12-17 (up 30%), 0.23 in 18-34 (up 22.7%), 0.43 in 35-49 (down 8%) and 0.41 in 50+ (up 10.8%).
> 
> The best quarters for men were two, five and eight. For women 18-34, the peak was Q5, while women 35-49 peaked in Q3. Q2 was also the peak in total viewers. Q5 was the peak in 18-49.


….. not to join the chorus….  But maybe they need to go back to the drawing board with Rosa

something is really bothering me about the women’s division

you have GREAT wrestlers - like in-ring peeps

Shida, Kris, Hayter, Riho, Emi, Athena & Toni (to a degree)

why can’t they seem to buy tv time? I mean, i would watch Kris v Riho on Dynamite and Rampage - yet they don’t put their strongest in-ring women front and centre for an in-ring heavy fanbase

does my head in


----------



## DammitChrist

Nah, Thunder Rosa SHOULD still be the AEW Women’s World Champion atm.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, Thunder Rosa SHOULD still be the AEW Women’s World Champion atm.


devil’s advocate - based on what?


----------



## 3venflow

I've been a huge fan of Thunder Rosa's work in the past, but something just hasn't been there for a while now. Look at the poor quality of Britt vs. Rosa in the cage compared to their previous St. Patrick's Day Slam match. I can't recall a worse Miyu Yamashita match than the one on Dynamite either. Rosa did have fine defenses against Nyla, Serena (the pick of the bunch) and Toni Storm, but nothing blowaway. Go back to 2020 and her matches against Shida and Serena and she seemed a much better worker. Is it age? Injuries? I don't know, but she isn't performing at the level I'd hoped when she became champion.

On the other hand, what would putting the belt back on Britt achieve and would it really bump ratings much? She went through the entire division near enough in her first reign and there's nothing fresh unless they turn Hayter face and do that for a while. The division is in a flux and there's no correct answer. Britt was supposed to torpedo the division since she'd bring the promos/stories Shida (still the best in-ring champ for me) didn't, but in turn her matches were bad. Rosa is neither bringing the promo quality or the high workrate (it's a step up from Britt in the ring but Shida had better matches).

I'd like to see Statlander get a chance since she's an AEW original who has put in a lot of effort. Or form a group of heel joshis, like Lucha Underground's Black Lotus Triad, and put the belt on one of those. But to keep it on topic, the women's quarter continues to see big drops before the main event drags some people back, so there's clearly disinterest in the division. I wonder if TK has reached out to Sasha yet, because with HHH in charge she could do a U-turn.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> I've been a huge fan of Thunder Rosa's work in the past, but something just hasn't been there for a while now. Look at the poor quality of Britt vs. Rosa in the cage compared to their previous St. Patrick's Day Slam match. I can't recall a worse Miyu Yamashita match than the one on Dynamite either. Rosa did have fine defenses against Nyla, Serena (the pick of the bunch) and Toni Storm, but nothing blowaway. Go back to 2020 and her matches against Shida and Serena and she seemed a much better worker. Is it age? Injuries? I don't know, but she isn't performing at the level I'd hoped when she became champion.
> 
> On the other hand, what would putting the belt back on Britt achieve and would it really bump ratings much? She went through the entire division near enough in her first reign and there's nothing fresh unless they turn Hayter face and do that for a while. The division is in a flux and there's no correct answer. Britt was supposed to torpedo the division since she'd bring the promos/stories Shida (still the best in-ring champ for me) didn't, but in turn her matches were bad. Rosa is neither bringing the promo quality or the high workrate (it's a step up from Britt in the ring but Shida had better matches).
> 
> I'd like to see Statlander get a chance since she's an AEW original who has put in a lot of effort. Or form a group of heel joshis, like Lucha Underground's Black Lotus Triad, and put the belt on one of those. But to keep it on topic, the women's quarter continues to see big drops before the main event drags some people back, so there's clearly disinterest in the division. I wonder if TK has reached out to Sasha yet, because with HHH in charge she could do a U-turn.


I'd like them to circle round back to Riho for a short stint if she's better

Otherwise Kris is primed for the champ

or, just make Jade double champ - what she lacks in match quality she has in presence + the baddies can interfere when needed

As a side note, its been time to turn Nyla face

ps> Sasha is almost 100% going back now IMO


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> devil’s advocate - based on what?


I’ll go with great wrestling ability and charisma/overness 

Edit:

She’s underrated on the mic on here too.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DammitChrist said:


> I’ll go with great wrestling ability and charisma/overness
> 
> Edit:
> 
> She’s underrated on the mic on here too.


I would say Kris and Baker has her beat on both counts - hell, Hayter too

She regressed in the ring and I have a feeling she's wrestling injured since the cage match


----------



## CovidFan

LifeInCattleClass said:


> devil’s advocate - based on what?


iStandWithAEW.jpg


----------



## Randy Lahey

I don’t think it’s complicated. Womens wrestling is a net loser. It doesn’t matter who is in the ring or what time slot.

AEW fans like watching AEW because it offers something different than Raw, Smackdown or NXT offers. That being superior mens wrestling. When women show up, it’s no longer a superior product. It’s just as bad if not worse than what you’d find on Raw or Smackdown


----------



## NathanMayberry

Hotdiggity11 said:


> 28th July, 2021 - 1,110,000
> 
> 
> This is AEW’s version of progress. [emoji6]


The goal posts have been shifted for year over year growth to Tony’s pubes 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NathanMayberry

La Parka said:


> the superbowl of baseball games.


Is the World Series? 

This is hot primarily because it’s the first time in a long time that both teams have been as dominant and going against each other. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Teemu™

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ….. not to join the chorus…. But maybe they need to go back to the drawing board with Rosa
> 
> something is really bothering me about the women’s division
> 
> you have GREAT wrestlers - like in-ring peeps
> 
> Shida, Kris, Hayter, Riho, Emi, Athena & Toni (to a degree)
> 
> why can’t they seem to buy tv time? I mean, i would watch Kris v Riho on Dynamite and Rampage - yet they don’t put their strongest in-ring women front and centre for an in-ring heavy fanbase
> 
> does my head in


Cattle critical of AEW? Who hacked you? Tony never makes mistakes.










Please click.


----------



## Diggins

Ive been reading alot of people bitch about how AEW doesnt get good ratings. Do people not realize that cable tv is dead and ratings are nothing like how it was 20 even 10 years ago? Or is it just trolling?


----------



## La Parka

Does Raw operate in a universe where cable TV is thriving?


----------



## bigwrestlingfan22

They want to be able to judge the show. They want to be able to put themselves back in time when wrestling was fun and there was a ratings war. 

I will say they're fairly relevant in 2022 as wrestling companies basically live off those TV deals. AEW is hoping for a nice big increase during their next TV deal.


----------



## the_flock

Diggins said:


> Do people not realize that cable tv is dead


If that's the case, why didn't TK use his millions to set up his own streaming service. Why after buying ROH has he still not set up his own streaming service?

Cable or tv ratings are only dead when AEW fans want to prove a point.


----------



## No Chance in Hell

Punk and Bryan didn't move the needle. Crying won't change that fact.


----------



## CaptainCharisma2005

Theyre worried about the future of the sport, I on the other hand dont mind too much since recently in wrestling ratings usually means pandering to casuals of wrestling and younger people. Nxt gets a third of the rawkdown ratings probably because it isnt too kid friendly and is the much better show for me because of it


----------



## Dickhead1990

Diggins said:


> Ive been reading alot of people bitch about how AEW doesnt get good ratings. Do people not realize that cable tv is dead and ratings are nothing like how it was 20 even 10 years ago? Or is it just trolling?


No they don't. Like most things discussed on here, people don't have the first fucking clue and just parrot other people's opinions.

If ratings were the be all and end all today, then WWE would have died with their sharp decline.


----------



## lagofala

Its because wrestling media keeps harping on it and it became an important metric for everyone to flout.


----------



## Moonlight_drive

I don't care. I just download the shows I want to see, because I don't have a tv subscription.


----------



## thorwold

Ratings are important for AEW/their fans because the quality of them is the primary key to them getting a bigger deal next time round and being able to grow.

WWE trolls going on about them are like... It's like if McDonalds flexed over how far ahead of Wendy's they are. Small dick energy, you know?


----------



## Dickhead1990

Moonlight_drive said:


> I don't care. I just download the shows I want to see, because I don't have a tv subscription.


As do most wrestling fans realistically. I ran a poll on here a while ago, where the majority did just that (62.3% illegally or on YouTube). So yeah, ratings...


----------



## Diggins

Isnt AEW in the top 10 anyways for there timeslot ratings wise? I just dont get the argument in 2022. Most people i know watch wrestling off the internet.


----------



## kingfunkel

It's a nice way to gauge growth. If the viewership goes up, then usually it means you're doing something right and vice versa. Also the quarter breakdowns show what is losing or gaining viewers. 
Then you have the demo. If your main audience is kids you want adverts targeted towards kids and you want to cater moreso towards them. 

While it's not the end all, it's the best way to see what the general consensus is from week to week / quarter to quarter.


----------



## Diggins

kingfunkel said:


> It's a nice way to gauge growth. If the viewership goes up, then usually it means you're doing something right and vice versa. Also the quarter breakdowns show what is losing or gaining viewers.
> Then you have the demo. If your main audience is kids you want adverts targeted towards kids and you want to cater moreso towards them.
> 
> While it's not the end all, it's the best way to see what the general consensus is from week to week / quarter to quarter.





kingfunkel said:


> It's a nice way to gauge growth. If the viewership goes up, then usually it means you're doing something right and vice versa. Also the quarter breakdowns show what is losing or gaining viewers.
> Then you have the demo. If your main audience is kids you want adverts targeted towards kids and you want to cater moreso towards them.
> 
> While it's not the end all, it's the best way to see what the general consensus is from week to week / quarter to quarter.


Arent they in the top of the ratings though anyways? Plus you can watch aew one week on tbs but then say fuck it im gonna watch it on the internet later when it’s convenient. So i still dont get why it matters that much.


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> Does Raw operate in a universe where cable TV is thriving?


Is Raw burning it up..?


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> Is Raw burning it up..?


No, but they're doing a lot better than AEW and its fans don't have a list of excuses as to why a mid week baseball game in july outdraws them.


----------



## Diggins

La Parka said:


> No, but they're doing a lot better than AEW and its fans don't have a list of excuses as to why a mid week baseball game in july outdraws them.


Isnt WWE a legendary brand that has been around for decades and AEW has only been around for 3?


----------



## DUD

The Neilsen ratings always have been a very flawed system and I've never understood why people judge a show based on it.


----------



## La Parka

Diggins said:


> Isnt WWE a legendary brand that has been around for decades and AEW has only been around for 3?


Isnt Simpsons a legendary brand that has been around for decades and Stranger Things has only been around for 7? Which one is more prominent in the social zeitgeist?


----------



## Diggins

La Parka said:


> Isnt Simpsons a legendary brand that has been around for decades and Stranger Things has only been around for 7? Which one is more prominent in the social zeitgeist?


Thats not a good comparison. Try again.


----------



## DUD

La Parka said:


> Isnt Simpsons a legendary brand that has been around for decades and Stranger Things has only been around for 7? Which one is more prominent in the social zeitgeist?


I stopped watching both after Series 2. Which kind of me gets me to my point over if you enjoy something who cares if other people enjoy it.


----------



## 3venflow

They just finished number one five weeks in a row (knocked off by Yankees/Mets this week) on the Nielsen charts, so their ratings are good in today's context. Like, TNA had more viewers for a period, but never got anywhere close to the top of the charts because contextually more people watched cable and they weren't as close to the top. People just feel the need to compare ratings to a national institution (WWE) or ratings from 20 years ago when there were 10000000 fewer options.

When the TV rights are renewed, this whole argument should come to an end. If they get an increase, they're doing good. If they get a decrease, they're doing bad. If they get about the same, they're doing ok.



La Parka said:


> No, but they're doing a lot better than AEW and its fans don't have a list of excuses as to why a mid week baseball game in july outdraws them.


RAW had a higher peak to fall down from. Between 2016 and 2020, they lost 41% of their total audience. But again, contextually they're doing very good even though their ratings look shit compared to even a few years ago. And again, that's because of the cable decline. Of all the major sports stuff in that same time period, only the NFL Draft gained viewers (NFL regular season lost).


----------



## La Parka

Diggins said:


> Thats not a good comparison. Try again.





https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=CA&q=%2Fm%2F0131ln7y,%2Fm%2F07c72





https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=CA&q=WWE,AEW



How isn't it?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Ratings are important because they tell you who people want to see on TV and who they don't want to see on TV. For example, if Marina Shafir is tanking ratings with her terrible matches (she did), that's an indicator that she needs to be taken off TV for the better women's wrestlers.*


----------



## DUD

3venflow said:


> They just finished number one five weeks in a row (knocked off by Yankees/Mets this week) on the Nielsen charts, so their ratings are good in today's context. Like, TNA had more viewers for a period, but never got anywhere close to the top of the charts because contextually more people watched cable and they weren't as close to the top. People just feel the need to compare ratings to a national institution (WWE) or ratings from 20 years ago when there were 10000000 fewer options.
> 
> When the TV rights are renewed, this whole argument should come to an end. If they get an increase, they're doing good. If they get a decrease, they're doing bad. If they get about the same, they're doing ok.
> 
> 
> 
> RAW had a higher peak to fall down from Between 2016 and 2020, they lost 41% of their total audience. But again, contextually they're doing very good even though their ratings look shit compared to even a few years ago. And again, that's because of the cable decline.
> 
> View attachment 129122


No one ever mentions it but the turnover of Neilsen TNA weekly viewers on Spike to PPV subscribers in 2010 was traumatic. I'm pretty sure one of there better wrestling quality PPVs (Genesis or Turning Point) at the end of the 2010 was less than 20k. But Russo sympathisers point out he had the pencil when TV ratings were high.

"Context is King" as they say.


----------



## Diggins

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Ratings are important because they tell you who people want to see on TV and who they don't want to see on TV. For example, if Marina Shafir is tanking ratings with her terrible matches (she did), that's an indicator that she needs to be taken off TV for the better women's wrestlers.*


Arent they always in the top ratings though every week?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Diggins said:


> Arent they always in the top ratings though every week?


*I'm talking about quarter hour ratings. AEW's overall ratings will be +-250,000 depending on show quality and competition, so they'll always be in the top three at worst. That doesn't tell the full story of how the audience receives the show.*


----------



## Tell it like it is

Ratings only matter to the people who run companies. Fans worrying about ratings or bragging about ratings just sound like dorks. If the product is good and you enjoy watching it that should be enough. I've never seen another fandom talk about TV Ratings as much as wrestling fans do it's insane.


----------



## Diggins

Tell it like it is said:


> Ratings only matter to the people who run companies. Fans worrying about ratings or bragging about ratings just sound like dorks. If the product is good and you enjoy watching it that should be enough. I've never seen another fandom talk about TV Ratings as much as wrestling fans do it's insane.


Yeah i just dont get it. And yes, dorks is what i think as well. Especially the ones that actually go out of there way and research so they can argue there point with some other dork on a wrestling forum.


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite finished #7 out of every show on cable for the seven days leading to Thursday. RAW finished #2 and the baseball game that knocked Dynamite off top spot, Yankees vs. Mets, finished #1.


----------



## Tell it like it is

Diggins said:


> Yeah i just dont get it. And yes, dorks is what i think as well. Especially the ones that actually go out of there way and research so they can argue there point with some other dork on a wrestling forum.


Thats a nerd's tool to clash and troll on internet. If they dont do that with ratings they do that with other things (overreactions about a missed spot, a tiny botch or anything else that can help them find something to bitch about).


----------



## Diggins

Tell it like it is said:


> Thats a nerd's tool to clash and troll on internet. If they dont do that with ratings they do that with other things (overreactions about a missed spot, a tiny botch or anything else that can help them find something to bitch about).


You just tell it like it is lol


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> No, but they're doing a lot better than AEW and its fans don't have a list of excuses as to why a mid week baseball game in july outdraws them.


Is it doing better relative to its own standards is the question. It is expected to outdraw AEW. The WWE brand is a part of American culture. DisneyWorld rides fucking suck, but the park still does better than every other amusement park in the country. Yearly.

If you like amusement parks for the rides, then you aren’t going to Disney. You go to Disney for the experience. For the history. To say you did it. And you go back, because there is always something going on.

WWE has reached that status of American culture. Other amusement parks exist. Universal Studios is 10 mins from DisneyWorld, yet it isn’t THE reason millions flock to Orlando each year. Kudos to Vince’s business savvy in that regard.


----------



## RapShepard

Diggins said:


> Isnt WWE a legendary brand that has been around for decades and AEW has only been around for 3?


This is one of the sillier arguments consistently used to defend AEW. You can't have guys hardcore fans call stars like Punk, Bryan, Sting, Jericho, Moxley, Omega, and The Bucks. Then go 

"Well of course AEW isn't cracking a million, they're a new brand"

Lol either the guys they got are draws or they're not.


----------



## Diggins

RapShepard said:


> This is one of the sillier arguments consistently used to defend AEW. You can't have guys hardcore fans call stars like Punk, Bryan, Sting, Jericho, Moxley, Omega, and The Bucks. Then go
> 
> "Well of course AEW isn't cracking a million, they're a new brand"


yeah you can


----------



## thisissting

Nobody watches wrestling these days apart from us nerds. You can't compare roman reigns Daniel Bryan Randy Orton to hulk hogan the macho man undertaker rock and stone cold. Wrestling is just a niche audience these days not mainstream at all and possibly never will be again. The audience is too smart now and the day kayfabe died was the day wrestling died.


----------



## Diggins

thisissting said:


> Nobody watches wrestling these days apart from us nerds. You can't compare roman reigns Daniel Bryan Randy Orton to hulk hogan the macho man undertaker rock and stone cold. Wrestling is just a niche audience these days not mainstream at all and possibly never will be again. The audience is too smart now and the day kayfabe died was the day wrestling died.


Is it really not mainstream though? Both AEW and WWE are top in the tv ratings on there respectively days of the week.


----------



## thisissting

Diggins said:


> Is it really not mainstream though? Both AEW and WWE are top in the tv ratings on there respectively days of the week.


Not to the man in the street though. There's also too many competing things to watch these days. The rise of MMA on TV as well as an option with folk knowing its actually real. Wwe does a good job with wrestlmamia as a product and do well shifting merch to kids. The average man on the street has no idea who roman reigns Randy Orton or the miz are for example. Being top of TV ratings might just mean the other things in the list are junk or they are not going head to head with nfl or other draws.


----------



## Diggins

thisissting said:


> Not to the man in the street though. There's also too many competing things to watch these days. The rise of MMA on TV as well as an option with folk knowing its actually real. Wwe does a good job with wrestlmamia as a product and do well shifting merch to kids. The average man on the street has no idea who roman reigns Randy Orton or the miz are for example. Being top of TV ratings might just mean the other things in the list are junk or they are not going head to head with nfl or other draws.


You sure it might just not be people are to embarrassed to admit they like and watch wrestling?


----------



## thisissting

Diggins said:


> You sure it might just not be people are to embarrassed to admit they like and watch wrestling?


If it was mainstream they wouldn't be embarrassed to admit they watch it lol. But your right there is an embarrassment factor and that's a sad emdightment of the state of the business these days. Most people would laugh at you if you said you watch wrestling several times a week and most would say its not as good as it used to be with all the characters back in the day hogan flair macho warrior etc. At least that's what I observe anyway being a wrestling fan.


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> Dynamite finished #7 out of every show on cable for the seven days leading to Thursday. RAW finished #2 and the baseball game that knocked Dynamite off top spot, Yankees vs. Mets, finished #1.
> 
> View attachment 129125


Formula 1 racing has been doing monster numbers for their time slot all year. Auto Racing is one sports property that can compete against wrestling and would be desirable for TV, although moving those races to week nights to compete vs wrestling would be hard to do. Auto racing is generally always a weekend event


----------



## Diggins

thisissting said:


> If it was mainstream they wouldn't be embarrassed to admit they watch it lol. But your right there is an embarrassment factor and that's a sad emdightment of the state of the business these days. Most people would laugh at you if you said you watch wrestling several times a week and most would say its not as good as it used to be with all the characters back in the day hogan flair macho warrior etc. At least that's what I observe anyway being a wrestling fan.


Yeah idk man i get what you mean. Im just saying if its always top tv ratings it has to be mainstream. I just think people are too embarrassed to say it because its a guilty pleasure to most. I dont give a fuck though myself, all my friends know inlove wrasslin!


----------



## Dizzie

Of course ratings are important, without them there is no TV deal and even wwe would struggle massively to even sustain its popularity without the exposure on prime broadcasting channels.

Ratings get's you a better TV platform in good time slots and bigger budget for growth


----------



## Diggins

Dizzie said:


> Of course ratings are important, without them there is no TV deal and even wwe would struggle massively to even sustain its popularity without the exposure on prime broadcasting channels.
> 
> Ratings get's you a better TV platform in good time slots and bigger budget for growth


Isnt aew in the top ratings for there time slot?


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> This is one of the sillier arguments consistently used to defend AEW. You can't have guys hardcore fans call stars like Punk, Bryan, Sting, Jericho, Moxley, Omega, and The Bucks. Then go
> 
> "Well of course AEW isn't cracking a million, they're a new brand"
> 
> Lol either the guys they got are draws or they're not.


Austin, Cena, Hogan, and Rock can show up Monday, and they’re not going to start drawing much more than Raw already does.

Because wrestling is itself is a dying entertainment medium.


----------



## bdon

@RapShepard , you have tried using America’s Got Talent and The Voice as a reason why AEW should be blowing WWE out the water, but before you go that route, remember what I said: wrestling itself is a dying medium. No one is bringing it back to life. Just like boxing. Just like baseball. They’ve had their time in the sun. UFC will face a similar fate one day. As do all forms of niche entertainment.


----------



## Diggins

Who all plays dungeons and dragons in here?!?


----------



## imscotthALLIN

Don’t blame the people, this ratings crap is all on Tony. The guy drools over ratings like Moxley does over pouring blood in a mudshow match. Tony has a legit obsession with the weekly numbers and the people just follow his lead. It’s why he hotshots his programs with a big wrestler debut or some shock factor weekly, to attempt a spike in ratings.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

La Parka said:


> Isnt Simpsons a legendary brand that has been around for decades and Stranger Things has only been around for 7? Which one is more prominent in the social zeitgeist?


Tbh, more people still know The Simpsons and Simpsons memes than whatever boring Stephen King-esque nonsense Stranger Things was. 

The Simpsons are evergreen.


----------



## Honey Bucket

Even from back in my early days on this forum, certain people have been obsessed with ratings. Before AEW was even a thing. Using ratings to justify something.

So glad I’m not friends with these cunts.


----------



## CM Buck

Went ahead and merged with the ratings thread


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

That is one low ass demo for Dynamite.


----------



## .christopher.

Tell it like it is said:


> Ratings only matter to the people who run companies. Fans worrying about ratings or bragging about ratings just sound like dorks. If the product is good and you enjoy watching it that should be enough. I've never seen another fandom talk about TV Ratings as much as wrestling fans do it's insane.


That’s because wrestling is unique. People get more tv time if their segments gain viewers. Probably a push, too. On the flip side, if you constantly lose viewers, you’ll likely never be pushed unless the booker/boss has a boner for you.

It matters to fans because if someone you like brings in viewers, you’ll most likely get to see them in a more prominent position, and vice versa if they lose viewers.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan

If TK didn’t talk about ratings he would be inundated with lunatics asking about them. He really shouldn’t care as much about comparing the companies to each other. There is no comparison when you have a forty year headstart. That is Vince’s greatest legacy as a promoter. WWE IS Kleenex. WWE is XEROX. 

The one trademark they can’t seem to replace is thankfully Sports Entertainment. The fans will always know that this stuff really is. If that was Tony Khan’s legacy it would be brought up every single post. TK would be called a failure and a silly money mark. He has no idea what he is doing. He couldn’t replace pro wrestling with sports entertainment. He is such a mark and sports entertainment is his legacy. 

Thankfully TK is not brazen enough to try and change the very basic language that defines professional wrestling. 

We are all marks. All we really have is our opinions. Some fans don’t even have those though as threads like this proves. Using facts to qualify your opinions is silly. When I do use facts it is usually to dispute facts that are misrepresented or ignored. Interest in a particular event can be proven with live event sales. Maybe I slip up every now and then and contradict my stance here. I’m not perfect.


----------



## Randy Lahey

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Tbh, more people still know The Simpsons and Simpsons memes than whatever boring Stephen King-esque nonsense Stranger Things was.
> 
> The Simpsons are evergreen.



I find WWE to be very comparable to The Simpsons. It’s a safe well known formulaic brand.

AEW is like early stages South Park. I don’t think many loyal Simpsons viewers were giving South Park a chance but eventually they got 2 different fanbases.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> Isnt Simpsons a legendary brand that has been around for decades and Stranger Things has only been around for 7? Which one is more prominent in the social zeitgeist?


is this a real question?

Simpsons, by far

a veritable landslide

that is like asking what is more culturally impactful, Batman or Locke and Key


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> is this a real question?
> 
> Simpsons, by far
> 
> a veritable landslide
> 
> that is like asking what is more culturally impactful, Batman or Locke and Key


Nobody is talking about the Simpsons in 2022. The cultural impact of the simpsons *had *an impact but that is very long ago. Its not the early 2000s anymore. 

The last time it made main stream news was when Apu was getting killed off and even that died down after a while. Stranger things on the other hand is in every store, consistently talked about online and its actors are finding work everywhere.

AEW isn't even close to the above and using "bbbbbut WWE's been around longer" is a pathetic excuse and avoids the real reason why AEW has no footprint in the entertainment world because its largely unappealing to 99 percent of the population.


----------



## La Parka

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Tbh, more people still know The Simpsons and Simpsons memes than whatever boring Stephen King-esque nonsense Stranger Things was.
> 
> The Simpsons are evergreen.


Knowing about something does not make something relevant.

More people know about Justin Timberlake than Juice Wrld and despite being dead for 2 years Juice Wrld is still getting more album plays in 2022.

More people know about Star Wars than Black Panther, but whats going to make more money? Black Panther 2 or Star Wars 45?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> Nobody is talking about the Simpsons in 2022. The cultural impact of the simpsons *had *an impact but that is very long ago. Its not the early 2000s anymore.
> 
> The last time it made main stream news was when Apu was getting killed off and even that died down after a while. Stranger things on the other hand is in every store, consistently talked about online and its actors are finding work everywhere.
> 
> AEW isn't even close to the above and using "bbbbbut WWE's been around longer" is a pathetic excuse and avoids the real reason why AEW has no footprint in the entertainment world because its largely unappealing to 99 percent of the population.


dude - do the grandma test and come back to me

ask a grandma if she knows the Simpsons or if she knows Stranger Things

there is leagues of difference.

its like Google, its become a verb. WWE is a verb for wrestling.

to think their longevity plays no part is so astronomically pepega, i wonder if i should even debate it


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude - do the grandma test and come back to me
> 
> ask a grandma if she knows the Simpsons or if she knows Stranger Things
> 
> there is leagues of difference.
> 
> its like Google, its become a verb. WWE is a verb for wrestling.
> 
> to think their longevity plays no part is so astronomically pepega, i wonder if i should even debate it





La Parka said:


> Knowing about something does not make something relevant.
> 
> More people know about Justin Timberlake than Juice Wrld and despite being dead for 2 years Juice Wrld is still getting more album plays in 2022.
> 
> More people know about Star Wars than Black Panther, but whats going to make more money? Black Panther 2 or Star Wars 45?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

star wars

star wars makes more money

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

fucking hell


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> star wars
> 
> star wars makes more money
> 
> 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
> 
> fucking hell


You think the next Star Wars will make more money than this?










Could Black Panther: Wakanda Forever make box office history?


Black Panther: Wakanda Forever trailer debuts at the San Diego Comic-Con, setting the internet on fire. Could Ryan Coogler's sequel become one of the highe...




bamsmackpow.com





You're an out of touch old man.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> You think the next Star Wars will make more money than this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could Black Panther: Wakanda Forever make box office history?
> 
> 
> Black Panther: Wakanda Forever trailer debuts at the San Diego Comic-Con, setting the internet on fire. Could Ryan Coogler's sequel become one of the highe...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bamsmackpow.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're an out of touch old man.


mate, are you trolling?

Black Panther 2 will have an amazing box office

it will have good after market sales and it will have a nice couple of toys

and then it will be on to the next one

Star Wars, whatever the next one is, will have merch and toy sales for the next 20 years

they’re still making Darth Vader lego sets ffs, like years and years later

it is different stratospheres. A hot weekend and good money does not put something in the cultural zeitgeist.

only longevity at a certain level does that.

ps) on the ‘out of touch old man’ comment, i can run rings around you in any discussion about marvel, dc, sci fi or any other geek topic like that. My nerd cred is astronomical. I can tell you the history of Black Panther through all its iterations and creators and storylines. Don’t fart against thunder sonny… me and my 50,000 comic book collection is eagerly awaiting xD


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ps) the funny thing is we always speak about the ‘attitude era’ - and that is an actual example of a cultural zeitgeist 

lol, so silly this is even a debate


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> mate, are you trolling?
> 
> Black Panther 2 will have an amazing box office
> 
> it will have good after market sales and it will have a nice couple of toys
> 
> and then it will be on to the next one
> 
> Star Wars, whatever the next one is, will have merch and toy sales for the next 20 years
> 
> they’re still making Darth Vader lego sets ffs, like years and years later
> 
> it is different stratospheres. A hot weekend and good money does not put something in the cultural zeitgeist.
> 
> only longevity at a certain level does that.


Your standard of being in the cultural zeitgeist is how many legos they sell? lol. Anyways the question I posted was which of the two would make more money at the box office and you said the next star wars. So despite the fact that Black Panther 1 was a bigger draw than every star wars since 2017 and number 2 is predicted to be even bigger you think Star Wars (despite running off many of its current fans and not making many new ones) is going to do better.

Regardless of which stratosphere Star Wars is in and which one black panther is in, The point is, regardless of how new your brand is, you can still make an impact. Using "AEW has only been around 3 years, so they should be getting lower ratings than a meaningless mid july baseball game" is the weakest of AEW excuses since that "west coast viewers have to watch at 5" excuse. 

ps) Bringing up your comic book collection as some sort of dunk is another example of being out of touch. It would be like a 50 year old woman bringing out her Madonna records at an Ariana Grande concert to show her in touch she is with the pop music. Put em away, grandpa.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> Your standard of being in the cultural zeitgeist is how many legos they sell? lol. Anyways the question I posted was which of the two would make more money at the box office and you said the next star wars. So despite the fact that Black Panther 1 was a bigger draw than every star wars since 2017 and number 2 is predicted to be even bigger you think Star Wars (despite running off many of its current fans and not making many new ones) is going to do better.
> 
> Regardless of which stratosphere Star Wars is in and which one black panther is in, The point is, regardless of how new your brand is, you can still make an impact. Using "AEW has only been around 3 years, so they should be getting lower ratings than a meaningless mid july baseball game" is the weakest of AEW excuses since that "west coast viewers have to watch at 5" excuse.
> 
> ps) Bringing up your comic book collection as some sort of dunk is another example of being out of touch. It would be like a 50 year old woman bringing out her Madonna records at an Ariana Grande concert to show her in touch she is with the pop music. Put em away, grandpa.


you didn’t say box office bud

you are also ignoring the 20 movies before it that leads in to BP2, in order to make it a success

in itself, its not even new, its a sequel - it’s literally the silliest example you could choose to make your point, because it proves the opposite

if you launched BP2 cold, with no context it would do a quarter of the money - but it has Marvel, avengers, BP1 to fall back on - ie) legacy and longevity as a backdrop and lead-in

slating comics is also dumb, because it is what your actual example is based on, further tying into longevity playing a part in success. But i understand why you might dislike them. You don’t strike me as…. a reader


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you didn’t say box office bud


I clearly listed the two movie titles. 

Why would it be anything else?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> I clearly listed the two movie titles.
> 
> Why would it be anything else?


money comes from all sides. Movies, itunes sales, disney plus subs, games, tshirts, toys

why would you not talk about it holistically when you’re trying to make an argument about success?


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> money comes from all sides. Movies, itunes sales, disney plus subs, games, tshirts, toys
> 
> why would you not talk about it holistically when you’re trying to make an argument about success?


So, which of those avenues is AEW close to beating WWE in?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> So, which of those avenues is AEW close to beating WWE in?


none, they’re not doing to bad for bums in seats if you took it show by show


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> Nobody is talking about the Simpsons in 2022. The cultural impact of the simpsons *had *an impact but that is very long ago. Its not the early 2000s anymore.
> 
> The last time it made main stream news was when Apu was getting killed off and even that died down after a while. Stranger things on the other hand is in every store, consistently talked about online and its actors are finding work everywhere.
> 
> *AEW isn't even close to the above and using "bbbbbut WWE's been around longer" is a pathetic excuse* and avoids the real reason why AEW has no footprint in the entertainment world because its largely unappealing to 99 percent of the population.


I don't see how that valid statement is an 'excuse' when it's completely true.

It took WWE 6-7 years of being on TV in order to eventually see its peak ratings for their history, and that's with the company already having 40+ years beforehand to be established overall.


----------



## CovidFan

It's true that WWE has more brand recognition because it's been around longer but it has that recognition because it went through a couple of boom periods. With the decline of cable, AEW will very likely never see a boom period and be able to garner the kind of views or attention WWE does now. Round and round this argument goes


----------



## Wolf Mark

Diggins said:


> Is it really not mainstream though? Both AEW and WWE are top in the tv ratings on there respectively days of the week.


They top the ratings cause everything else is shit. They win by default. If WWE had this low ratings in 1998, they would have been cancelled.


----------



## Diggins

Great opinions and excuses negative assholes!!! My opinion is so changed!


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

La Parka said:


> Knowing about something does not make something relevant.
> 
> More people know about Justin Timberlake than Juice Wrld and despite being dead for 2 years Juice Wrld is still getting more album plays in 2022.
> 
> More people know about Star Wars than Black Panther, but whats going to make more money? Black Panther 2 or Star Wars 45?


Wtf is juice!.. Wrld? I'm lookin for some grape drink baby! Mmm, it's purple.

-----

Something is relevant so long as it remains a cultural touchstone that people remember and can relate something to.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> is this a real question?
> 
> Simpsons, by far
> 
> a veritable landslide
> 
> that is like asking what is more culturally impactful, Batman or Locke and Key


Yeah seriously.

I know The Simpsons has fallen off, but the good stuff they did is still as relevant today as it ever was and it was a worldwide phenomenon. Even the topics they covered in a lot of the earlier seasons -- at least in the West, they aged very well, and it was kind of designed that way.

They live on Evergreen Terrace ffs.



La Parka said:


> Your standard of being in the cultural zeitgeist is how many legos they sell?


Ask somebody if they know who Darth Vader is, then ask someone if they know wtf Juice Wrld is.

"Is that that new juice bar down the street I've been hearing about?!"


----------



## La Parka

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Wtf is juice!.. Wrld? I'm lookin for some grape drink baby! Mmm, it's purple.
> 
> -----
> 
> Something is relevant so long as it remains a cultural touchstone that people remember and can relate something to.
> 
> 
> Yeah seriously.
> 
> I know The Simpsons has fallen off, but the good stuff they did is still as relevant today as it ever was and it was a worldwide phenomenon. Even the topics they covered in a lot of the earlier seasons -- at least in the West, they aged very well, and it was kind of designed that way.
> 
> They live on Evergreen Terrace ffs.
> 
> 
> 
> Ask somebody if they know who Darth Vader is, then ask someone if they know wtf Juice Wrld is.
> 
> "Is that that new juice bar down the street I've been hearing about?!"


I’m not talking to someone about modern cultural relevance that hasn’t even heard about a massive musical act like juice wrld.

it would be like talking with a caveman about an electrical car.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

La Parka said:


> I’m not talking to someone about modern cultural relevance that hasn’t even heard about a massive musical like juice wrld.
> 
> it would be like talking with a caveman about an electrical car.


Great out for not having to actually prove the relevance of whatever Juice Wrld is. 

It's a musical? lol.. super relevant.

Is it like Cats? Memorable enough to have a ludicrously overproduced and overbudget disasterpiece made 20 years later ?

Oh.. he was a lame emo soundcloud rapper who died 3 years ago from taking too many percs when the cops were raiding his private plane -- the absolute height of relevance


----------



## Hotdiggity11

These people talking about WWE having a “forty year head start” are ignoring that the company wasn’t started by a billionaire and wasn’t getting multi-million dollar nationally televised tv deals out of the gate.

Let’s skip pretending AEW is some mom and pop company that started from scratch, shall we? 🙄


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Hotdiggity11 said:


> These people talking about WWE having a “forty year head start” are ignoring that the company wasn’t started by a billionaire and wasn’t getting multi-million dollar nationally televised tv deals out of the gate.
> 
> Let’s skip pretending AEW is some mom and pop company that started from scratch, shall we? 🙄


I certainly wouldn't call it some kind of grass roots mom and pop, but neither was WWWF back in the day.

40 years with Vince in charge and 20 as basically a monopoly isn't something to handwave either.


----------



## La Parka

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Great out for not having to actually prove the relevance of whatever Juice Wrld is.
> 
> It's a musical? lol.. super relevant.
> 
> Is it like Cats? Memorable enough to have a ludicrously overproduced and overbudget disasterpiece made 20 years later ?
> 
> Oh.. he was a lame emo soundcloud rapper who died 3 years ago from taking too many percs when the cops were raiding his private plane -- the absolute height of relevance


Point proven.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

La Parka said:


> Point proven.


Yeah, pretty sure me and @LifeInCattleClass solved that point for you the hard way brother. 

Snapped that shit off like a celery stalk and threw it in the tall grass.


----------



## La Parka

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Yeah, pretty sure me and @LifeInCattleClass solved that point for you the hard way brother.
> 
> Snapped that shit off like a celery stalk and threw it in the tall grass.


Don't drag life into this.

You're the one who by me forgetting the word "act" in my post genuinely thought a top 10 selling artist in 2020 was a musical and yet think you belong at the table to discuss modern culture relevance? Sit this one out, pops.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

La Parka said:


> Don't drag life into this.
> 
> You're the one who by me forgetting the word "act" in my post genuinely thought a top 10 selling artist in 2020 was a musical and yet think you belong at the table to discuss modern culture relevance? Sit this one out, pops.


Lol wasn't about you forgetting that haha, jeezum lord mercy; I literally didn't look up what Juice Wrld was because I was waiting for you to explain who he was and why he was so relevant -- when it became clear you had nothing I looked him up and he was a flash in the pan rapper who died 3 years ago. 🤷‍♂️ 

Sorry but talking about the cultural zeitgeist and relevancy and then bringing up a guy who had some songs that sold well for a couple years for a segment of kids and is now dead is a losing argument. 

-----

Aren't you like 33 or something? Pops? 

Stop it. 

The way you know someone is actually part of the cultural zeitgeist and is actually relevant is when you hear about them regardless of whether you want to or not.

Juice WRLD was never that kind of draw, he was just another lame emo soundcloud rapper who died young off a drug overdose. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> @RapShepard , you have tried using America’s Got Talent and The Voice as a reason why AEW should be blowing WWE out the water, but before you go that route, remember what I said: wrestling itself is a dying medium. No one is bringing it back to life. Just like boxing. Just like baseball. They’ve had their time in the sun. UFC will face a similar fate one day. As do all forms of niche entertainment.


Nah it'll be brought back to life. Just by some dumbass wrestler neither of us could predict lol. Watch it'll be some weirdo that was inspired by R-Truth or John Silver or some shit. Or some fuck head 2nd string Ohio State or Alabama linebacker lol.


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ….. not to join the chorus…. But maybe they need to go back to the drawing board with Rosa
> 
> something is really bothering me about the women’s division
> 
> you have GREAT wrestlers - like in-ring peeps
> 
> Shida, Kris, Hayter, Riho, Emi, Athena & Toni (to a degree)
> 
> why can’t they seem to buy tv time? I mean, i would watch Kris v Riho on Dynamite and Rampage - yet they don’t put their strongest in-ring women front and centre for an in-ring heavy fanbase
> 
> does my head in



Kenny's gonna force Japanese chicks you don't know down your throat and you're finna like it bro


----------



## La Parka

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Lol wasn't about you forgetting that haha, jeezum lord mercy; I literally didn't look up what Juice Wrld was because I was waiting for you to explain who he was and why he was so relevant -- when it became clear you had nothing I looked him up and he was a flash in the pan rapper who died 3 years ago. 🤷‍♂️
> 
> Sorry but talking about the cultural zeitgeist and relevancy and then bringing up a guy who had some songs that sold well for a couple years for a segment of kids and is now dead is a losing argument.
> 
> -----
> 
> Aren't you like 33 or something? Pops?
> 
> Stop it.
> 
> The way you know someone is actually part of the cultural zeitgeist and is actually relevant is when you hear about them regardless of whether you want to or not.
> 
> Juice WRLD was never that kind of draw, he was just another lame emo soundcloud rapper who died young off a drug overdose. 🤷‍♂️


Lol, even if I did believe that you didn't think juice wrld was a musical, your summarization of him is so hilariously off that discussing anything modern with you is pointless. You're someone who's knowledge of entertainment likely died in the 90s and anything after that is strange to you. I'm sure in your circle people are still raving about that great Metallica concert back in 97 or that hilarious Simpsons episode that everyone is totally still talking about. Honestly I was giving you the benefit of the doubt with the whole "pops" thing. If you're an old dude, it's to be expected that you don't know modern music. The fact that you're possibly in your late 20s or early 30s and are already at your "what's a Bieber" phase is rough. 






Heres a video with more views than any WWE video has. Not only does it have more views than any WWE video has. It has more views than 30 of WWEs top videos COMBINED 

and guess what? that video is only his second biggest. This is the unstoppable force that AEW can't possibly compete with? the "emo SoundCloud" rapper who is apparently irrelevant managed to do quite well. 


My point is simple. Entertainment grows. Using WWE as an excuse as to why AEW is so far behind WWE is weak. Good shows draw. Good music draws. AEW is just garbage. The reason why AEW is nothing in modern society is because every time they get people's attention they fuck themselves over.

Kenny Omega wins the world title? Here's a guy that was hyped up as the best guy to never be in WWE. What do they do? They put his early title run on a crossover episode with a wrestling company thats on Twitch.

Sign CM Punk and draw a huge rating? Here's 30 back to back rampages featuring some of the most Indy garbage ever seen and the guy you tuned into see? Yeah he's going to wrestle competitively with every underneath talent aew has ever had.

Sign Adam Cole? Here's a bigger star 3 seconds later to completely kill any buzz that signing had going for it.

Sign Bryan Danielson? Heres him facing every bar wrestler you've ever seen oh and here's one to beat him.

Have a young talent like Wardlow over after finally destroying MJF? Here's a feud with the comedy jackoff lawyer. Have Wardlow win a title? Here's a 30 min match with 2022 Eugene and let's take him off tv for 3 weeks for people can really forget about him.

This isn't the case of AEW being awesome and modern culture not giving it a chance because they're in love with the old days. This is a case of modern culture seeing AEW and mostly rejecting it.

Don't you as an AEW fan wonder why AEW is doing the exact same numbers as it did when it went up against NXT? Doesn't it bother you that AEW signed almost all of NXT black and golds roster and it's audience didn't come over?

I'm fine with AEW being niche but lets stop pretending that this is the garage band that nobody will give a chance to because everyones going to the taylor swift concert and doesn't get "real" music.


----------



## RainmakerV2

La Parka said:


> Lol, even if I did believe that you didn't think juice wrld was a musical, your summarization of him is so hilariously off that discussing anything modern with you is pointless. You're someone who's knowledge of entertainment likely died in the 90s and anything after that is strange to you. I'm sure in your circle people are still raving about that great Metallica concert back in 97 or that hilarious Simpsons episode that everyone is totally still talking about. Honestly I was giving you the benefit of the doubt with the whole "pops" thing. If you're an old dude, it's to be expected that you don't know modern music. The fact that you're possibly in your late 20s or early 30s and are already at your "what's a Bieber" phase is rough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heres a video with more views than any WWE video has. Not only does it have more views than any WWE video has. It has more views than 30 of WWEs top videos COMBINED
> 
> and guess what? that video is only his second biggest. This is the unstoppable force that AEW can't possibly compete with? the "emo SoundCloud" rapper who is apparently irrelevant managed to do quite well.
> 
> 
> My point is simple. Entertainment grows. Using WWE as an excuse as to why AEW is so far behind WWE is weak. Good shows draw. Good music draws. AEW is just garbage. The reason why AEW is nothing in modern society is because every time they get people's attention they fuck themselves over.
> 
> Kenny Omega wins the world title? Here's a guy that was hyped up as the best guy to never be in WWE. What do they do? They put his early title run on a crossover episode with a wrestling company thats on Twitch.
> 
> Sign CM Punk and draw a huge rating? Here's 30 back to back rampages featuring some of the most Indy garbage ever seen and the guy you tuned into see? Yeah he's going to wrestle competitively with every underneath talent aew has ever had.
> 
> Sign Adam Cole? Here's a bigger star 3 seconds later to completely kill any buzz that signing had going for it.
> 
> Sign Bryan Danielson? Heres him facing every bar wrestler you've ever seen oh and here's one to beat him.
> 
> Have a young talent like Wardlow over after finally destroying MJF? Here's a feud with the comedy jackoff lawyer. Have Wardlow win a title? Here's a 30 min match with 2022 Eugene and let's take him off tv for 3 weeks for people can really forget about him.
> 
> This isn't the case of AEW being awesome and modern culture not giving it a chance because they're in love with the old days. This is a case of modern culture seeing AEW and mostly rejecting it.
> 
> Don't you as an AEW fan wonder why AEW is doing the exact same numbers as it did when it went up against NXT? Doesn't it bother you that AEW signed almost all of NXT black and golds roster and it's audience didn't come over?
> 
> I'm fine with AEW being niche but lets stop pretending that this is the garage band that nobody will give a chance to because everyones going to the taylor swift concert and doesn't get "real" music.



Hol e shit hit the deck


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

La Parka said:


> Lol, even if I did believe that you didn't think juice wrld was a musical, your summarization of him is so hilariously off that discussing anything modern with you is pointless. You're someone who's knowledge of entertainment likely died in the 90s and anything after that is strange to you. I'm sure in your circle people are still raving about that great Metallica concert back in 97 or that hilarious Simpsons episode that everyone is totally still talking about. Honestly I was giving you the benefit of the doubt with the whole "pops" thing. If you're an old dude, it's to be expected that you don't know modern music. The fact that you're possibly in your late 20s or early 30s and are already at your "what's a Bieber" phase is rough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heres a video with more views than any WWE video has. Not only does it have more views than any WWE video has. It has more views than 30 of WWEs top videos COMBINED
> 
> and guess what? that video is only his second biggest. This is the unstoppable force that AEW can't possibly compete with? the "emo SoundCloud" rapper who is apparently irrelevant managed to do quite well.
> 
> 
> My point is simple. Entertainment grows. Using WWE as an excuse as to why AEW is so far behind WWE is weak. Good shows draw. Good music draws. AEW is just garbage. The reason why AEW is nothing in modern society is because every time they get people's attention they fuck themselves over.
> 
> Kenny Omega wins the world title? Here's a guy that was hyped up as the best guy to never be in WWE. What do they do? They put his early title run on a crossover episode with a wrestling company thats on Twitch.
> 
> Sign CM Punk and draw a huge rating? Here's 30 back to back rampages featuring some of the most Indy garbage ever seen and the guy you tuned into see? Yeah he's going to wrestle competitively with every underneath talent aew has ever had.
> 
> Sign Adam Cole? Here's a bigger star 3 seconds later to completely kill any buzz that signing had going for it.
> 
> Sign Bryan Danielson? Heres him facing every bar wrestler you've ever seen oh and here's one to beat him.
> 
> Have a young talent like Wardlow over after finally destroying MJF? Here's a feud with the comedy jackoff lawyer. Have Wardlow win a title? Here's a 30 min match with 2022 Eugene and let's take him off tv for 3 weeks for people can really forget about him.
> 
> This isn't the case of AEW being awesome and modern culture not giving it a chance because they're in love with the old days. This is a case of modern culture seeing AEW and mostly rejecting it.
> 
> Don't you as an AEW fan wonder why AEW is doing the exact same numbers as it did when it went up against NXT? Doesn't it bother you that AEW signed almost all of NXT black and golds roster and it's audience didn't come over?
> 
> I'm fine with AEW being niche but lets stop pretending that this is the garage band that nobody will give a chance to because everyones going to the taylor swift concert and doesn't get "real" music.


Lol you started out by saying Stranger Things is more relevant than The Simpsons and got your ass stomped and then came back with Justin Timberlake vs Juice WRLD, somebody whose never going to make another song since he's dead and your big comeback is an Eminem song featuring the guy from 2 and a half years ago. 

Wonder why it's relevant? It's because of Eminem.

Eminem is part of the cultural zeitgeist. Ask anyone who isn't comatose who Eminem is and they'd know. 

Sorry that you're all butt hurt and up in your feelings about some stupid rapper who OD'd because the cops were searching his plane and he swallowed a fistful of percs to hide evidence, when he had 71 pounds of weed in the cargo. 

----- 

Lol I wasn't even on about the ratings war or Adam Cole or Punk, lol tf is all that jabber. 

It was a minor point about Stranger Things vs The Simpsons and relevancy which turned into some shit about Juicey Fruit and his legendary status as a mumbling idiot, but you obviously can't take the L and love digging holes so have at it ⛏ 😁


----------



## La Parka

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Lol you started out by saying Stranger Things is more relevant than The Simpsons and got your ass stomped and then came back with Justin Timberlake vs Juice WRLD, somebody whose never going to make another song since he's dead and your big comeback is an Eminem song featuring the guy from 2 and a half years ago.
> 
> Wonder why it's relevant? It's because of Eminem.
> 
> Eminem is part of the cultural zeitgeist. Ask anyone who isn't comatose who Eminem is and they'd know.
> 
> Sorry that you're all butt hurt and up in your feelings about some stupid rapper who OD'd because the cops were searching his plane and he swallowed a fistful of percs to hide evidence, when he had 71 pounds of weed in the cargo.
> 
> -----
> 
> Lol I wasn't even on about the ratings war or Adam Cole or Punk, lol tf is all that jabber.
> 
> It was a minor point about Stranger Things vs The Simpsons and relevancy which turned into some shit about Juicey Fruit and his legendary status as a mumbling idiot, but you obviously can't take the L and love digging holes so have at it ⛏ 😁



and heres yet another example of...

1) you not reading my full post

and 

2) you being out of touch with modern day entertainment 

Because I knew you'd bring up the eminem shit because I know thats probably the only rapper you actually know, I pointed out that it was his SECOND highest viewed video. 

Heres his first: 





oh wow look at that! HE GOT MORE VIEWS ON HIS OWN THAN THE ONE WITH EMINEM 

because you can't seem to get the point..... 






















Juice WRLD - Armed & Dangerous (Directed by Cole Bennett)

Juice WRLD - Wishing Well (Official Music Video) 

Every single video listed above has 10x more views than ANY WWE video that has ever been posted on youtube. 

Stranger Things is clearly more relevant than simpsons today (which I already proved before but here we go for a second time) 





__





Loading…






trends.google.com





sigh... yes we know you and your old friends love talking about the Simpsons but most people TODAY actually like other things. I know its hard to believe given your stance on AEW struggling vs WWE but TV shows can be more relevant than shows that have been around for decades.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> I certainly wouldn't call it some kind of grass roots mom and pop, but neither was WWWF back in the day.
> 
> 40 years with Vince in charge and 20 as basically a monopoly isn't something to handwave either.




WWWF wasn’t totally humble beginnings but it was still a territory and was mostly started by successful promoters that were relatively wealthy. But still quite different from a billionaire with resources.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> Kenny's gonna force Japanese chicks you don't know down your throat and you're finna like it bro


the Joshi being the focus was the last time i really enjoyed the women’s division


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

La Parka said:


> and heres yet another example of...
> 
> 1) you not reading my full post
> 
> and
> 
> 2) you being out of touch with modern day entertainment
> 
> Because I knew you'd bring up the eminem shit because I know thats probably the only rapper you actually know, I pointed out that it was his SECOND highest viewed video.
> 
> Heres his first:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh wow look at that! HE GOT MORE VIEWS ON HIS OWN THAN THE ONE WITH EMINEM
> 
> because you can't seem to get the point.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Juice WRLD - Armed & Dangerous (Directed by Cole Bennett)
> 
> Juice WRLD - Wishing Well (Official Music Video)
> 
> Every single video listed above has 10x more views than ANY WWE video that has ever been posted on youtube.
> 
> Stranger Things is clearly more relevant than simpsons today (which I already proved before but here we go for a second time)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trends.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sigh... yes we know you and your old friends love talking about the Simpsons but most people TODAY actually like other things. I know its hard to believe given your stance on AEW struggling vs WWE but TV shows can be more relevant than shows that have been around for decades.


Sigh.. since you wanna go google trends. 





__





Loading…






trends.google.com





Seems the most relevant thing he ever did was die 

Hey some of the most viewed wrestling videos on the internet are Joey Ryan intergender matches.. somebody should book that guy! He's getting 70 million views wrestling in a VFW hall on youtube! /s

You're the one missing the point here young man.


----------



## La Parka

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Sigh.. since you wanna go google trends.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trends.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems the most relevant thing he ever did was die
> 
> Hey some of the most viewed wrestling videos on the internet are Joey Ryan intergender matches.. somebody should book that guy! He's getting 70 million views wrestling in a VFW hall on youtube! /s
> 
> You're the one missing the point here young man.


Well yeah.. Kurt Cobain's most relevant thing he ever did was die as well. That was the lead singer of a band called Nirvana. I know someone like you who enjoys things like Joey Ryan getting his dick grabbed, Grown men consistently cutting themselves every week, Orange Cassidy putting his hands in his pockets and the young bucks playing grab ass is your kind of entertainment but Nirvana was a pretty popular band back in the day.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

@Catalanotto - can we have a facepalm emoticon reaction added please?

feel free to replace the sad face or something xD


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

La Parka said:


> Well yeah.. Kurt Cobain's most relevant thing he ever did was die as well. That was the lead singer of a band called Nirvana. I know someone like you who enjoys things like Joey Ryan getting his dick grabbed, Grown men consistently cutting themselves every week, Orange Cassidy putting his hands in his pockets and the young bucks playing grab ass is your kind of entertainment but Nirvana was a pretty popular band back in the day.


Guess you missed the /s for sarcasm on that Joey Ryan bit.

Hey lets throw a bunch of shit at the wall and see what actually has real longterm relevancy as part of the cultural zeitgeist. 





__





Loading…






trends.google.com


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Guess you missed the /s for sarcasm on that Joey Ryan bit.
> 
> Hey lets throw a bunch of shit at the wall and see what actually has real longterm relevancy as part of the cultural zeitgeist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trends.google.com


and even this does not paint the picture

cause people consume simpsons / wwe etc on tv - there’s no need for online searching

when something becomes a verb or synonomous with a genre, or defines an era - that is cultural zeitgeist

St Elmo’s fire is a great movie, but its not Breakfast Club in the mind of the masses.

American Dad is a popular adult themed cartoon, but its not South Park

AEW is a brilliant promotion, but its not WWE 

this is not about quality, its about longevity at a certain level - to argue against this is asinine - there are a million examples


----------



## La Parka

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Guess you missed the /s for sarcasm on that Joey Ryan bit.
> 
> Hey lets throw a bunch of shit at the wall and see what actually has real longterm relevancy as part of the cultural zeitgeist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trends.google.com


It wasn’t missed. I just find it hard to believe that an AEW superfan like yourself was totally appalled by Joey Ryan but somehow ends his nights laughing for hours on end at the same hands in his pocket joke that’s been told for the past 3 years. Seems like the type of thing your kind is into.

Ahh yes comparing modern cultural impact and relevancy is bringing up a graph that started when juice wrld was in middle school. Next you’ll show me game tape of your high school basketball game from 1950 and say “where’s Lebron bro?!”

No one is talking about who’s had more cultural impact from 2004, the topic is “what is more relevant in 2022?” and considering how ignorant you are on the most well unknown of entertainers of this current generation, I doubt we’re going to get anywhere.


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> and even this does not paint the picture
> 
> cause people consume simpsons / wwe etc on tv - there’s no need for online searching
> 
> when something becomes a verb or synonomous with a genre, or defines an era - that is cultural zeitgeist
> 
> St Elmo’s fire is a great movie, but its not Breakfast Club in the mind of the masses.
> 
> American Dad is a popular adult themed cartoon, but its not South Park
> 
> AEW is a brilliant promotion, but its not WWE
> 
> this is not about quality, its about longevity at a certain level - to argue against this is asinine - there are a million examples


only one of these things is apparently oppressed by the others existence. Can you guess which it is?

all of your examples are debatable in terms of relevance in 2022 but one thing that sticks out is AEW. Comparing WWE to AEW is just so far off in regards to relevance. You brought up American dad to South Park but AEW is not even American dad. AEW is drawn together. A niche show that very few people will ever bring up again. Only AEW is on a bigger network and it’s fanbase thinks the wwe is totally preventing them from being relevant.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

LifeInCattleClass said:


> and even this does not paint the picture
> 
> cause people consume simpsons / wwe etc on tv - there’s no need for online searching
> 
> when something becomes a verb or synonomous with a genre, or defines an era - that is cultural zeitgeist
> 
> St Elmo’s fire is a great movie, but its not Breakfast Club in the mind of the masses.
> 
> American Dad is a popular adult themed cartoon, but its not South Park
> 
> there’s levels to this shit


Oh yeah most definitely, after a certain point some things become so ingrained in society it's not even really consciously though of it's just kind of there as a cultural touchstone and used as a universal reference point. 

It becomes part of the way we look at the world and it become part of the way we talk and interact with people to an extent, and most of the time you don't even realize you're caught up in something like that. 

Shit's pretty wild when you take a step back.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> only one of these things is apparently oppressed by the others existence. Can you guess which it is?
> 
> all of your examples are debatable in terms of relevance in 2022 but one thing that sticks out is AEW. Comparing WWE to AEW is just so far off in regards to relevance. You brought up American dad to South Park but AEW is not even American dad. AEW is drawn together. A niche show that very few people will ever bring up again. Only AEW is on a bigger network and it’s fanbase thinks the wwe is totally preventing them from being relevant.


what are you talking about?

do you just come up with this BS?

nobody is saying ‘wwe is keeping aew from being bigger because of its cultural relevance’

people are just saying ‘wwe is bigger because of its longevity and cultural relevance’

hell, its a compliment - not even sure what you are debating / you’ve been spinning in this thread the last 2 days about nothing

like headless chicken arguments - for what? What point are you trying to make?



BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Oh yeah most definitely, after a certain point some things become so ingrained in society it's not even really consciously though of it's just kind of there as a cultural touchstone and used as a universal reference point.
> 
> It becomes part of the way we look at the world and it become part of the way we talk and interact with people to an extent, and most of the time you don't even realize you're caught up in something like that.
> 
> Shit's pretty wild when you take a step back.


this is such a good skit to show it 






if you spoke to a casual about wrestling today, they’d say ‘oh, that WWE stuff. I like Stone Cold and the Undertaker’


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what are you talking about?
> 
> do you just come up with this BS?
> 
> nobody is saying ‘wwe is keeping aew from being bigger because of its cultural relevance’
> 
> people are just saying ‘wwe is bigger because of its longevity and cultural relevance’
> 
> hell, its a compliment - not even sure what you are debating / you’ve been spinning in this thread the last 2 days about nothing
> 
> like headless chicken arguments - for what? What point are you trying to make?


Multiple people have stated that WWE is the reason for AEWs lack of ratings.

“WWE ran all the wrestling fans off and now there’s none left for AEW!”

WWE is a bigger company because of cultural longevity but they aren’t kicking AEWs ass every week on TV because of cultural longevity. They’re kicking AEWs ass because of terrible booking on AEWs part. 

I’ve explained my point thousands of times. No matter how long your competitor has been around, there is no valid excuse to be THAT far behind.
There’s a reason why AEW is THAT far behind and you don’t want to admit that it’s poor writing and are insistent on making excuses for AEW.

Simpson’s may have been well known for 25 years but game of thrones somehow managed to get 19 million viewers on HBO. An accomplishment that the simpsons would love to do in 2022


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

La Parka said:


> It wasn’t missed. I just find it hard to believe that an AEW superfan like yourself was totally appalled by Joey Ryan but somehow ends his nights laughing for hours on end at the same hands in his pocket joke that’s been told for the past 3 years. Seems like the type of thing your kind is into.
> 
> Ahh yes comparing modern cultural impact and relevancy is bringing up a graph that started when juice wrld was in middle school. Next you’ll show me game tape of your high school basketball game from 1950 and say “where’s Lebron bro?!”
> 
> No one is talking about who’s had more cultural impact from 2004, the topic is “what is more relevant in 2022?” and considering how ignorant you are on the most well unknown of entertainers of this current generation, I doubt we’re going to get anywhere.


Nah, it'd be like me bringing up Space Jam and the Lebron Sequel.. Y'know why they made the sequel with Lebron, because people still loved Space Jam because it had seeped into the cultural zeitgeist to an extent.

More than ever, in a world that is increasingly niche, long term relevancy actually means something despite teenagers and apparently your desire to chase the latest hype.

w.e. doesn't matter, Juicy Fruity is dead he ain't gonna be doing a run in at the rumble 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> this is such a good skit to show it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if you spoke to a casual about wrestling today, they’d say ‘oh, that WWE stuff. I like Stone Cold and the Undertaker’


That's hilarious! Ngl I just clicked on it and it took me a couple seconds, fuck me it's early..

But yeah, Stone Cold, The Rock, The Undertaker and for an older crowd, Hogan, Macho, Flair. Those guys can generally pass the grandma test -- they were those touchstones and reference points for people and represented the entire idea of pro-wrestling in the minds of the majority.


La Parka said:


> Simpson’s may have been well known for 25 years but game of thrones somehow managed to get 19 million viewers on HBO. An accomplishment that the simpsons would love to do in 2022


Pfff.. 19 million? Dick Beyer vs Rikidozan got 70 million back in 63'. Kids these days with their dragons and what not. Bunch of fuckin jabronies! /s


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> Multiple people have stated that WWE is the reason for AEWs lack of ratings.
> 
> “WWE ran all the wrestling fans off and now there’s none left for AEW!”
> 
> WWE is a bigger company because of cultural longevity but they aren’t kicking AEWs ass every week on TV because of cultural longevity. They’re kicking AEWs ass because of terrible booking on AEWs part.
> 
> I’ve explained my point thousands of times. No matter how long your competitor has been around, there is no valid excuse to be THAT far behind.
> There’s a reason why AEW is THAT far behind and you don’t want to admit that it’s poor writing and are insistent on making excuses for AEW.
> 
> Simpson’s may have been well known for 25 years but game of thrones somehow managed to get 19 million viewers on HBO. An accomplishment that the simpsons would love to do in 2022


AEW gets 60% of WWE Raw’s audience 3 years in with 100m investment (67% if you just take Key demo)

a 5b juggernaut who had a monopoly for 20 years and been in business thrice that long vs a 3yr upstart 🤦‍♂️

XFL got 20% and less of NFLs with 500m investment

AEW is not far behind WWE and they are 1000% not behind because of bad booking - you mad AF

game of thrones and simpsons are not the same genre you madman XD XD


----------



## Diggins

I havent even read this topic in the past couple days and all i can see is people deflecting my responses or very violently coming up with excuses on why wrestling sucks. Lol, lol


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> AEW gets 60% of WWE Raw’s audience 3 years in with 100m investment (67% if you just take Key demo)
> 
> a 5b juggernaut who had a monopoly for 20 years and been in business thrice that long vs a 3yr upstart 🤦‍♂️
> 
> XFL got 20% and less of NFLs with 500m investment
> 
> AEW is not far behind WWE and they are 1000% not behind because of bad booking - you mad AF
> 
> game of thrones and simpsons are not the same genre you madman XD XD


AEWs one show gets 60 percent of one of the two main shows WWE has. That isn’t all that impressive given that AEW is signing a ton of former WWE stars, AEW is on a channel that is more available than the one raw is on and WWE splits the roster into two different shows.

I like how it’s fine to compare a real sport (xfl) to a scripted entertainment show (aew) but it’s completely crazy to compare GOT and Simpson’s. Funny how that works.


----------



## Diggins

La Parka said:


> You seem to still be here.
> 
> 
> So not everyone.





Irish Jet said:


> I'm down. Where you at?


shutup pussy. All i see is you bitching too


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> AEWs one show gets 60 percent of one of the two main shows WWE has. That isn’t all that impressive given that AEW is signing a ton of former WWE stars, AEW is on a channel that is more available than the one raw is on and WWE splits the roster into two different shows.
> 
> I like how it’s fine to compare a real sport (xfl) to a scripted entertainment show (aew) but it’s completely crazy to compare GOT and Simpson’s. Funny how that works.


have you completely lost track of the conversation?

I was comparing XFL with NFL

that is like for like - if you can't follow that, I am not sure its worth even discussing the rest?


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> have you completely lost track of the conversation?
> 
> I was comparing XFL with NFL
> 
> that is like for like - if you can't follow that, I am not sure its worth even discussing the rest?


You’re comparing AEWs success / money put in vs XFLs success / money put in. 

No?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> You’re comparing AEWs success / money put in vs XFLs success / money put in.
> 
> No?


no

i am comparing the audience reached for a new venture vs an established one that is the cultural zeitgeist - in this case XFL vs NFL

you're saying 67% of the audience of the key demo is bad in AEW Dynamite vs WWE Raw - and i gave you an example when another start-up with 500% more investment only reached 20% or less of the audience of its competitor

so, that should give you some logical conclusions to make if you choose to see them about how good AEW is doing

spoiler - very good


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no
> 
> i am comparing the audience reached for a new venture vs an established one that is the cultural zeitgeist - in this case XFL vs NFL
> 
> you're saying 67% of the audience of the key demo is bad in AEW Dynamite vs WWE Raw - and i gave you an example when another start-up with 500% more investment only reached 20% or less of the audience of its competitor
> 
> so, that should give you some logical conclusions to make if you choose to see them about how good AEW is doing
> 
> spoiler - very good


Football is much more appealing to advertisers so naturally XFL will have more money put in.

NFL also has a stranglehold on talent, which WWE does not. If XFL signed as many stars from the NFL as AEW signed from WWE than the ratings would likely be much closer than AEWs is to WWE.

Spoiler - not all that impressive


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> Football is much more appealing to advertisers so naturally XFL will have more money put in.
> 
> NFL also has a stranglehold on talent, which WWE does not. If XFL signed as many stars from the NFL as AEW signed from WWE than the ratings would likely be much closer than AEWs is to WWE.
> 
> Spoiler - not all that impressive


who is talking about advertisers? we're talking about audience share

you have no guarantee that in year 3 of the XFL that they would not have singed a ton of ex-NFL. If you want to compare apples with apples then compare year 1 vs year 1 between the two companies. AEW's audience share maybe drops to 55%. the point still stands


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> who is talking about advertisers? we're talking about audience share
> 
> you have no guarantee that in year 3 of the XFL that they would not have singed a ton of ex-NFL. If you want to compare apples with apples then compare year 1 vs year 1 between the two companies. AEW's audience share maybe drops to 55%. the point still stands


You brought up the money XFL put in and I was giving you a reason as to why that was. 

I can guarantee you they wouldn’t sign a ton of big named NFLers based on the fact that they had zero appealing talent in year one. No one in XFL was sought after by the NFL. While AEW had a huge star in jericho, a former wwe champion in mox mix that in with Bucks, Omega and Cody who were all heavily sought after and you have a decent foundation. XFL on the other hand had Matt Mcgloin.

AEW then added a bunch of big WWE names and are only doing slightly better than they were in year one.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> You brought up the money XFL put in and I was giving you a reason as to why that was.


your reason for why there is more investment is wrong - its a more expensive business, that is why the investment was more. Football players cost on average a lot more than wrestlers. Stadiums costs more than arenas, but I digress - the money was beside the point. It was to illustrate we're talking about similar start-ups going against similar ingrained institutions



La Parka said:


> I can guarantee you they wouldn’t sign a ton of big named NFLers based on the fact that they had zero appealing talent in year one. No one in XFL was sought after by the NFL.


your statement here makes no sense. the XFL would not sign ex-NFL because no one in the XFL was sought after by the NFL? like, what do you mean dude? Would that not mean if it was successful year one they would 100% throw more money at NFL stars?



La Parka said:


> While AEW had a huge star in jericho, a former wwe champion in mox mix that in with Bucks, Omega and Cody who were all heavily sought after and you have a decent foundation. XFL on the other hand had Matt Mcgloin.


hence why they managed a bigger audience share compared to XFL vs NFL - well, that and better booking and shows



La Parka said:


> AEW then added a bunch of big WWE names and are only doing slightly better than they were in year one.


slightly better is still better, soooo....


you're trying to win an argument you can never win

because your premise is flawed - 'AEW has less viewers than WWE, not because of WWE's longevity and brand loyalty but because 'AEW shits the bed with bad booking' "

you can never prove your statement, because its based on your opinion. While I can compare any number of long-standing businesses and shows and most likely come up with the same or similar result each time. My statement is easy to prove with figures I can google. Your statement is based off your opinion, which is why it'll always be wrong as a factual statement


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> your reason for why there is more investment is wrong - its a more expensive business, that is why the investment was more. Football players cost on average a lot more than wrestlers. Stadiums costs more than arenas, but I digress - the money was beside the point. It was to illustrate we're talking about similar start-ups going against similar ingrained institutions
> 
> 
> 
> your statement here makes no sense. the XFL would not sign ex-NFL because no one in the XFL was sought after by the NFL? like, what do you mean dude? Would that not mean if it was successful year one they would 100% throw more money at NFL stars?
> 
> 
> 
> hence why they managed a bigger audience share compared to XFL vs NFL - well, that and better booking and shows
> 
> 
> 
> slightly better is still better, soooo....
> 
> 
> you're trying to win an argument you can never win
> 
> because your premise is flawed - 'AEW has less viewers than WWE, not because of WWE's longevity and brand loyalty but because 'AEW shits the bed with bad booking' "
> 
> you can never prove your statement, because its based on your opinion. While I can compare any number of long-standing businesses and shows and most likely come up with the same or similar result each time. My statement is easy to prove with figures I can google. Your statement is based off your opinion, which is why it'll always be wrong as a factual statement


The XFL couldn’t sign nfl stars because no NFL star would have any interest in XFL, no matter how much money they offered and they certainly wouldn’t be able to get them for a similar price that they were getting in the NFL. Which is why the brag about AEW doing better is pretty weak. AEW can get Jericho by offering him the same amount as WWE would and maybe even less in Moxleys case. Where as for the XFL to get someone like Michael Thomas, they’d have to pay Liv tour money.

Slightly better is bad when you take into consideration all of the signings AEW has had AND the fact that their main competitor dropped their Wednesday night broadcast.

Let’s say XFL started its league with Kyler Murray, Aaron Rodgers and 3 of the best college players that they managed to pry away from the NCAA. After 2 years of doing slightly decent ratings they decide to sign Antonio Brown, Derrick Henry, Deshaun Watson, Lamar Jackson, Dak Prescott, Tom Brady, Julio Jones, Rob Gronkowski and Ezekiel Elliot. Year 3 starts and much like years 1 and 2 the officiating is terrible, the games are all of terrible quality, you got coaches running the ball on 4th and 30 and despite all the big names coming over the ratings are only slightly better.

Wouldn’t you say, hey maybe we should get some decent refs? Maybe we should get some decent coaches? AEW is this but wrestling. The matches are filled with botches, the most basic of moves seem incredibly difficult for the performers to do, wrestling rules are made up on the spot, many of the promos are awkward as fuck and sometimes fan favourites go missing for weeks on end.


----------



## RapShepard

In my expert fence sitter opinion I'll say this.

AEW is doing well, it's no way around admitting that unless you're pulling out ratings standards from the 90s. 

But people that say it can't compete on a more even scale ratings wise because it's 3 years old are being disingenuous. 

AEW has a lot of money invested to it and a lot of people hardcore fans claim to be big stars. You can't claim all these guys in AEW are stars and well loved, and then turn around and say "well of course you can't expect AEW to draw more people". Either they have stars or they don't.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> In my expert fence sitter opinion I'll say this.
> 
> AEW is doing well, it's no way around admitting that unless you're pulling out ratings standards from the 90s.
> 
> But people that say it can't compete on a more even scale ratings wise because it's 3 years old are being disingenuous.
> 
> AEW has a lot of money invested to it and a lot of people hardcore fans claim to be big stars. You can't claim all these guys in AEW are stars and well loved, and then turn around and say "well of course you can't expect AEW to draw more people". Either they have stars or they don't.


i don’t think anybody was saying that


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 375,000
18-49: 0.11

After its highest P18-49 rating since April last week, Rampage slumps in both main metrics to its lowest since June 17th, finishing #23 on cable for the day. Since the Royal Rampage, there haven't really been any marquee matches on the show. This Friday's is a rare live Rampage though, so hopefully they run something big (last live Rampage had Bucks vs. Lucha Brothers).

*Last two months*:

7/22: 428,000 / 0.17
7/15: 435,000 / 0.14
7/8: 428,000 / 0.15
7/1: 486,000 / 0.16 (Royal Rampage)
6/24: 422,000 / 0.12
6/17: 331,000 / 0.10
6/10: 476,000 / 0.16
6/3: 475,000 / 0.14


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554201231345819650


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewers: 375,000
> 18-49: 0.11
> 
> After its highest P18-49 rating since April last week, Rampage slumps in both main metrics to its lowest since June 17th, finishing #23 on cable for the day. Since the Royal Rampage, there haven't really been any marquee matches on the show. This Friday's is a rare live Rampage though, so hopefully they run something big (last live Rampage had Bucks vs. Lucha Brothers).
> 
> *Last two months*:
> 
> 7/22: 428,000 / 0.17
> 7/15: 435,000 / 0.14
> 7/8: 428,000 / 0.15
> 7/1: 486,000 / 0.16 (Royal Rampage)
> 6/24: 422,000 / 0.12
> 6/17: 331,000 / 0.10
> 6/10: 476,000 / 0.16
> 6/3: 475,000 / 0.14


that’s cancel territory

they need to pull finger on Rampage

throw some big guns maybe


----------



## Christopher Near

Friday night war.....


----------



## Oracle

I thought Tony said he was going back to his RUTHLESS ROOTS with Rampage....

when was that again?


----------



## Mister Sinister

Warner is cancelling shows left and right. The Flash and Riverdale are being pulled.

AEW is in the danger zone. They are super expensive and Tony has spent millions on WWE stars instead of a few hundred thousand on a writing team and the show has lost its identity. It's now more a WWE brand extension than a new promotion.

The talk of AEW's original stars is which ones are going to end up in WWE (MJF, Wardlow, Starks, Jade).


----------



## Randy Lahey

I don’t think it’s cancel territory given the time slot. If it were in primetime anything under a 0.15 would be cancelville. 

At this rate they just need to not put anything good on the show that most people are going to miss. The 18-49 demo simply isn’t watching TV at 10pm on a Friday night. 

I’d be happy if they make it the Ring of Honor show and then you get only the best stuff on Dynamite each week. And RoH may be different enough to attract a specific viewer


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Not surprised with the rampage rating. It doesn't feel like MUST SEE to me and I haven't seen the last 3 or 4 and I never used to miss any AEW shows, including the youtube ones. Hope it does rebound and right its ship.


----------



## Not Lying

Mister Sinister said:


> Warner is cancelling shows left and right. The Flash and Riverdale are being pulled.


Both those shows should have ended around the same time Arrow did tbh.


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> Football is much more appealing to advertisers so naturally XFL will have more money put in.
> 
> NFL also has a stranglehold on talent, which WWE does not. *If XFL signed as many stars from the NFL as AEW signed from WWE than the ratings would likely be much closer than AEWs is to WWE.*
> 
> Spoiler - not all that impressive


And yet, NBA vs that 3-on-3 bullshit proves this theory wrong lol


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> In my expert fence sitter opinion I'll say this.
> 
> AEW is doing well, it's no way around admitting that unless you're pulling out ratings standards from the 90s.
> 
> But people that say it can't compete on a more even scale ratings wise because it's 3 years old are being disingenuous.
> 
> AEW has a lot of money invested to it and a lot of people hardcore fans claim to be big stars. You can't claim all these guys in AEW are stars and well loved, and then turn around and say "well of course you can't expect AEW to draw more people". Either they have stars or they don't.


You can sign Austin, Rock, Hogan, and Cena, and you’re still not getting bigger numbers than WWE right now. You just aren’t.

Disney is a shitty theme park, but they still outsell every other theme park. Children hear amusement park, and they think DisneyWorld.

Y’all used to fucking laugh at the comment that Howard Stern thought AEW was WWE, but now you’re pretending that isn’t a part of the adversity AEW faces? Why doesn’t anyone topple Coca-Cola? Why hasn’t my local burger joint topped McDonald’s? Why is Church’s Chicken not doing more business than KFC? Why is it that every time an expansion team debuts in the NBA or NFL, they are the laughing stock of the league?


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> And yet, NBA vs that 3-on-3 bullshit proves this theory wrong lol


that 3 on 3 bullshit had no stars. Athletes lose star value when they are no longer good enough to play in the real league. 

Which is why my examples were of modern athletes and not Joe Montana or Jerry Rice.


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> You can sign Austin, Rock, Hogan, and Cena, and you’re still not getting bigger numbers than WWE right now. You just aren’t.
> 
> Disney is a shitty theme park, but they still outsell every other theme park. Children hear amusement park, and they think DisneyWorld.
> 
> Y’all used to fucking laugh at the comment that Howard Stern thought AEW was WWE, but now you’re pretending that isn’t a part of the adversity AEW faces? Why doesn’t anyone topple Coca-Cola? Why hasn’t my local burger joint topped McDonald’s? Why is Church’s Chicken not doing more business than KFC? Why is it that every time an expansion team debuts in the NBA or NFL, they are the laughing stock of the league?


Howard Stern once thought UFC was TNA. 

He ain't exactly into wrestling.


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> Howard Stern once thought UFC was TNA.
> 
> He ain't exactly into wrestling.


And yet, you expect an entire country who got turned off wrestling, when WWE was a monopoly, over the last two decades, to somehow just KNOW that AEW isn’t another extension of WWE.

Funny how that works.


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> And yet, you expect an entire country who got turned off wrestling, when WWE was a monopoly, over the last two decades, to somehow just KNOW that AEW isn’t another extension of WWE.
> 
> Funny how that works.


Oh they know.

They just don't care for AEW.

Also....

"nobody is saying ‘wwe is keeping aew from being bigger because of its cultural relevance’ - @LifeInCattleClass 

Didn't even last a day before becoming the coldest of takes.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> Oh they know.
> 
> They just don't care for AEW.
> 
> Also....
> 
> "nobody is saying ‘wwe is keeping aew from being bigger because of its cultural relevance’ - @LifeInCattleClass
> 
> Didn't even last a day before becoming the coldest of takes.


?? Man, i can’t follow what you write


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ?? Man, i can’t follow what you write


You said nobody was saying WWE is keeping AEW from being bigger but only a few hours later @bdon states that WWE drove off fans and AEW can't be expected to get these fans to even know who they are.


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> You said nobody was saying WWE is keeping AEW from being bigger but only a few hours later @bdon states that WWE drove off fans and AEW can't be expected to get these fans to even know who they are.


Because they can’t. WWE being the only game in town, along with the slow death of cable television, has KILLED wrestling in the eyes of the masses. AEW is just an extension of WWE, and we have proof of this in Howard Stern, who you and others used as a way to mock AEW just a year or two ago. Now we’re trying to sweep that fact under the rug.

You can have prime Austin and Rock on a wrestling show today, and it isn’t gaining a foothold. It is dead. The wrestling industry is dead. WWE‘s monopoly insured the death of the industry. Vince Sr understood this, and Vince JR’s greed killed it for all, including his children and grandchildren.


----------



## bdon

Boxing used to be a great sport, enjoyed by everyone, and it doesn’t do the numbers it once did. Baseball used to be the top dog in terms of the Big 3 sports in the US, and now it is massively distant 3rd. No sport is catching NFL and NBA, because those sports have become the face of American sports during the cable tv era. Kobe Bryant and LeBron James are better players than Michael Jordan, accomplishing nearly as much as he did despite facing zone defenses and a salary cap designed to create parody, yet many fans refuse to watch NBA cause for them Jordan is STILL the face of the league.

My Dallas Cowboys haven’t won shit in 26 years, and they are still the most valuable team by a wide margin.


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> Because they can’t. WWE being the only game in town, along with the slow death of cable television, has KILLED wrestling in the eyes of the masses. AEW is just an extension of WWE, and we have proof of this in Howard Stern, who you and others used as a way to mock AEW just a year or two ago. Now we’re trying to sweep that fact under the rug.
> 
> You can have prime Austin and Rock on a wrestling show today, and it isn’t gaining a foothold. It is dead. The wrestling industry is dead. WWE‘s monopoly insured the death of the industry. Vince Sr understood this, and Vince JR’s greed killed it for all, including his children and grandchildren.


If wrestling is killed why is WWE doing so well? Why did SummerSlam trend so much on Twitter? Why was Logan Paul showing up in WWE? Why is AEW even on national TV? Why is AEW doing better PPV numbers than TNA ever did? 

The reality is both WWE and yes even AEW prove that wrestling is not dead. 

I don't even think AEW is that bad in terms of success, I just reject the laundry list of excuses that seem to pop up comes rating time. In the same way, I think WWE could do a lot better too, theres just not a crowd of people rushing to their defense


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> If wrestling is killed why is WWE doing so well? Why did SummerSlam trend so much on Twitter? Why was Logan Paul showing up in WWE? Why is AEW even on national TV? Why is AEW doing better PPV numbers than TNA ever did?
> 
> The reality is both WWE and yes even AEW prove that wrestling is not dead.
> 
> I don't even think AEW is that bad in terms of success, I just reject the laundry list of excuses that seem to pop up comes rating time. In the same way, I think WWE could do a lot better too, theres just not a crowd of people rushing to their defense


Wrestling is dead, bro. Only the hardcore of hardcore watch it. No casual fans are watching. If you like WWE, then you are not going to like AEW. If you don’t like wrestling as you have known it, then there is a mountain of reasons as to why you won’t even watch AEW. Howard Stern’s reasoning being the #1 reason.

And if AEW has to do its shows like WWE to steal some of that remaining 2 million wrestling fans, then I am goddamn glad they are doing lesser numbers.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

La Parka said:


> If wrestling is killed why is WWE doing so well? Why did SummerSlam trend so much on Twitter? Why was Logan Paul showing up in WWE? Why is AEW even on national TV? Why is AEW doing better PPV numbers than TNA ever did?
> 
> The reality is both WWE and yes even AEW prove that wrestling is not dead.
> 
> I don't even think AEW is that bad in terms of success, I just reject the laundry list of excuses that seem to pop up comes rating time. In the same way, I think WWE could do a lot better too, theres just not a crowd of people rushing to their defense


But by that logic if WWE had been doing better than the overall pie of people willing to watch wrestling would be larger and AEW would be doing better as well wouldn't it?

The problem is that they shrunk the pie of people willing to give wrestling a shot and have become so synonymous with pro wrestling that ESPN doesn't even have a wrestling category, it's just all called and reported under the banner of WWE. 

If you didn't like WWE why would you care about what is seemingly just another WWE brand in AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> You said nobody was saying WWE is keeping AEW from being bigger but only a few hours later @bdon states that WWE drove off fans and AEW can't be expected to get these fans to even know who they are.


i said ‘i think nobody…’

ie> nobody i’ve seen - and since Bdon said what he said after that, he can explain to you why he disagrees

🤷‍♂️

why are you so eager for a gotcha moment bruv? Be happy, Papa HHH is booking Raw tonight. Life is good


----------



## bdon

When I was a kid, I would often go to Busch Gardens in Williamsburg, VA and Kings Island in Ohio. I sat in line for 2 hours minimum per ride wait times, just to get to ride 3-4 of the top coasters. That is how the entire day was spent.

I took my children to Busch Gardens 2 weeks as a surprise vacation before I work this 54 day hitch on the boat (covering for my relief who is having his second kid), and the look on their faces when they heard “Busch Gardens” made me feel like shit. They ONLY know DisneyWorld. As an avid coaster guy, I have kept up with the rides of today, and I knew that DisneyWorld was still behind the times in terms of thrill-seeking coasters, yet my kids thought they were going to a rinky sink carnival because it didn’t have the name “Disney World”.

Once we got there, and they saw the rides, they were stoked, right? Well, let’s rewind for a second: I sat in line as a kid waiting on coasters 2 hours minimum. Despite there being new coasters and typical tourist season, we were able to ride every ride within 3-4 trips. No wait times hardly at all.

If you want to ride coasters, then you aren’t going to DisneyWorld. Yet Disney is making hand over fist more money than everyone else. Same basic genre, but you choose Disney for the experience of “Disney”. The magic of Disney as they say it.

Vince McMahon’s greatest achievement is doing to wrestling is growing his business to be the DisneyWorld wrestling. If you want what the industry was built on, wrestling or coasters, then you aren’t likely to enjoy your time there. But if you ONLY know those two names, then everything else feels like a knockoff as my kids’ faces told the entire story.

AEW has to just survive on TNT these first few years. Become an established part of American culture, then we can start to discuss them taking over. No amount of money spent is going to have a shoe company gaining ground on Nike in the first few years.


----------



## bdon

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> But by that logic if WWE had been doing better than the overall pie of people willing to watch wrestling would be larger and AEW would be doing better as well wouldn't it?
> 
> The problem is that they shrunk the pie of people willing to give wrestling a shot and have become so synonymous with pro wrestling that *ESPN doesn't even have a wrestling category, it's just all called and reported under the banner of WWE.*
> 
> If you didn't like WWE why would you care about what is seemingly just another WWE brand in AEW.


I quit watching ESPN years ago due to the shock jock radio nature of their programming, but is this true? If so, then there ya go. Further evidence.

And yes, your point about the pool of people even willing to watch wrestling shrinking is the biggest mountain for AEW to climb. They have to prove themselves as a viable second company that isn’t going anywhere, and they have to also somehow shake the natural stigma that wrestling carries with it in the eyes of its US audience.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i said ‘i think nobody…’
> 
> ie> nobody i’ve seen - and since Bdon said what he said after that, he can explain to you why he disagrees
> 
> 🤷‍♂️
> 
> why are you so eager for a gotcha moment bruv? Be happy, Papa HHH is booking Raw tonight. Life is good


WWE becoming good again is a necessity for AEW to potentially outgrow them. WWE becoming good again will force those unwilling to give wrestling a chance to potentially seek other avenues of wrestling.

The stigma that wrestling holds in the eyes of US citizens is massively negative. Many who don’t even remember WCW, which means the industry was shrunk by Vince Jr to benefit himself and himself only. As I said, Vince Sr knew this was bad for the overall industry.

Barnum and Bailey Circus used to be a wonderful event when we were kids. Do they still even exist? Why doesn’t some millionaire just start up his own traveling circus show?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> WWE becoming good again is a necessity for AEW to potentially outgrow them. WWE becoming good again will force those unwilling to give wrestling a chance to potentially seek other avenues of wrestling.
> 
> The stigma that wrestling holds in the eyes of US citizens is massively negative. Many who don’t even remember WCW, which means the industry was shrunk by Vince Jr to benefit himself and himself only. As I said, Vince Sr knew this was bad for the overall industry.
> 
> Barnum and Bailey Circus used to be a wonderful event when we were kids. Do they still even exist? Why doesn’t some millionaire just start up his own traveling circus show?


i dunno mate, i feel all we’re really seeing when we see ‘growth’ is people who decide to watch live on the night instead of DVR

and i kinda feel the opposite is what happens when the numbers fall.

the following thing gets me, right?

so - at the ‘height’ of pro wrestling - lets say attitude era / monday night wars - there was 3 shows a week - and they were doing ticket sales of 5000 - 7000

same as right now.

the ratings were massive, but localised to the US and in a different time / era.

now we have stadium shows, 2 night wrestlemanias. NJPW doing 2 night tokyo domes, Saudi shows. The international shows sell out and wrestling is in more countries that it ever was before

any night there is a wrestling show on, it trends globally on twitter

record profits for WWE - AEW and NJPW is also doing well

none of this feels like a stagnant or shrunk market to me.

its just a changed business. International as opposed to local

digital as opposed to physical

doomed industries do not draw 15k on average live fans a week to shows


----------



## bdon

And these aren’t excuses. They’re just realities of the economy and society we live. We don’t communicate, and we don’t like to have to leave our homes. We don’t like to have to watch anything on a set schedule, unless it is a single hour on a Sunday night when there isn’t shit else to do: chores are done for the week, kids don’t have practice, we don’t have a big meeting scheduled for the next day and if we do we already took care of it, etc. 

Sunday’s are prime real estate, which is also why the most iconic and memorable shows of the past 2-3 decades typically were shown on Sunday’s, such as GoT or Sopranos or the like.

AEW’s booking does suck at times, but I don’t buy that as the reason it can’t grow. It can’t grow, because for that less than a half percent of the US population willing to watch wrestling, WWE is the name of the game. For those unwilling to watch wrestling, you have to prove yourself to be “NOT the WWE.”

Stigmas are a motherfucker.


----------



## Mister Sinister

I disagree with all arguments that wrestling is down, tv is down, foolsball is back, ect. If you make must see tv, people must see it.

AEW is not being written or booked by writing professionals or produced by people who care or have the power to say, "This is fn bullshit, we need creative professionals."

I know what Eric Bischoff would do. He would hire a group of professional writers because he knows he needs a variety of voices and ideas. No one person writes a hit show alone. That is a myth.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i dunno mate, i feel all we’re really seeing when we see ‘growth’ is people who decide to watch live on the night instead of DVR
> 
> and i kinda feel the opposite is what happens when the numbers fall.
> 
> the following thing gets me, right?
> 
> so - at the ‘height’ of pro wrestling - lets say attitude era / monday night wars - there was 3 shows a week - and they were doing ticket sales of 5000 - 7000
> 
> same as right now.
> 
> the ratings were massive, but localised to the US and in a different time / era.
> 
> now we have stadium shows, 2 night wrestlemanias. NJPW doing 2 night tokyo domes, Saudi shows. The international shows sell out and wrestling is in more countries that it ever was before
> 
> any night there is a wrestling show on, it trends globally on twitter
> 
> record profits for WWE - AEW and NJPW is also doing well
> 
> none of this feels like a stagnant or shrunk market to me.
> 
> its just a changed business. International as opposed to local
> 
> digital as opposed to physical
> 
> doomed industries do not draw 15k on average live fans a week to shows


Well, I’m American, and if you understand that, then you understand why we don’t give a fuck about “international” numbers. 😂😂😂


----------



## bdon

Mister Sinister said:


> I disagree with all arguments that wrestling is down, tv is down, foolsball is back, ect. If you make must see tv, people must see it.
> 
> AEW is not being written or booked by writing professionals or produced by people who care or have the power to say, "This is fn bullshit, we need creative professionals."


By your logic, why has a Hollywood production company not come along, threw their name into the hat, and made a dent in Vince’s armor? If it is simply a lack of ability to write compelling TV, then why is Hollywood not taking over the game the moment Vince signed a billion dollar rights deal?


----------



## Mister Sinister

You have to have someone directing who understands wrestling and tv both. And you have to have the company being interested and convinced they can challenge WWE. Hollywood hasn't been interested in the gamble and they haven't seen it as a good bet. Hollywood wants WWE, not wrestling. They don't want to fight WWE. They want a ready made promotional tool. Disney or someone may offer to buy WWE, but they won't buy Impact from a $5 bin. They want an established franchise.

AEW has proven that you can't just dump money into a promotion. You just burn money. You have to have someone who knows how to do this.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

bdon said:


> I quit watching ESPN years ago due to the shock jock radio nature of their programming, but is this true? If so, then there ya go. Further evidence.
> 
> And yes, your point about the pool of people even willing to watch wrestling shrinking is the biggest mountain for AEW to climb. They have to prove themselves as a viable second company that isn’t going anywhere, and they have to also somehow shake the natural stigma that wrestling carries with it in the eyes of its US audience.


Yeah check the website, any wrestling news including AEW, is reported under the WWE banner. 

At the very least MMA is reported under the MMA banner, not UFC. 

Even XFL has its own category outside of the NFL.


----------



## bdon

Mister Sinister said:


> You have to have someone directing who understands wrestling and tv both. And you have to have the company being interested and convinced they can challenge WWE. Hollywood hasn't been interested in the gamble and they haven't seen it as a good bet. Hollywood wants WWE, not wrestling. They don't want to fight WWE. They want a ready made promotional tool. Disney or someone may offer to buy WWE, but they won't buy Impact from a $5 bin. They want an established franchise.
> 
> AEW has proven that you can't just dump money into a promotion. You just burn money. You have to have someone who knows how to do this.


And yet it is so easy, but they don’t want to take that risk..? Contradicting but ok…lol


----------



## bdon

Movies are so easy, @LifeInCattleClass . So many Americans routinely turn out for Marvel movies. Why doesn’t DC just write better movies? Pretty simple. More comic book movies, just write better!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Movies are so easy, @LifeInCattleClass . So many Americans routinely turn out for Marvel movies. Why doesn’t DC just write better movies? Pretty simple. More comic book movies, just write better!


G E N I U S !

i’ll phone DC and tell them!


----------



## bdon

First mover’s advantage is a real thing people.


----------



## 3venflow

Here's an easy-to-read year-on-year chart for Dynamite, RAW, Smackdown, NXT, IMPACT and cable shows in general, courtesy of Brandon Thurston.

The right-most category (non-news cable originals) I think is the best to compare wrestling in general to (except Smackdown since that isn't cable) as it shows how wrestling is comparing to the industry in general.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Raw will eventually sink below Dynamite in the 18-49 demo. It won’t be Dynamite increasing to pass them,but Dynamite decreasing at a lesser rate than Raw that will allow Dynamite to be the most popular wrestling show for 18-49.

The over 50+ viewer which is the majority of the total viewer number are so engrained with Raw over 30 years of being on TV that Dynamite doesn’t have really any chance of getting that segment.

It’d be like LIV Golf trying to do better ratings of 50+ over the PGA Tour. Simply isn’t going to happen


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The lack of ratings and growth for AEW is simple, it doesn't appeal to the masses, they've definitely tried and still do but they don't know how to hook them. Take a look at just two examples of when AEW successfully attracted the masses and how quickly they fucked it up.

---

AEW Dynamite Episode #1: AEW debuts to a smidge over 1.4 million people, a great audience for a wrestling show and very promising. With two hours to hook the audience they gave them a stupidly long opening match between Cody Rhodes and Sammy Guevara who was dressed in his panda headgear. I tuned out myself during this stupidly long opener.

MJF squashed Brandon Cutler, we never learned who MJF was

Stupidly long match between Adam Page (Who the audience didn't know at this point) and PAC (Who was a WWE midcarder)

Nyla Rose Vs Riho who the audience don't know anything about.

Token AEW Six Man which was Jericho, Santana and Ortiz Vs Kenny and The Bucks. Casual audience only really knows Jericho who was late forties at this point.

Jake Hager ends the show as the big surprise.

Why would you tune back in for week 2? They didn't, rating dropped down by about 400,000 people.

---

AEW Rampage Episode #2: CM Punk debuts in the opening segment which was stupid (Should've been the main event segment) in front of 1.1 million people.

Followed up by The Jurassic Express Vs Private Party in another stupidly long match featuring four wrestlers the audience doesn't know.

Then Jade Cargill beat Kiera Hogan who are also two wrestlers that your average wrestling fan wouldn't know.

Then Moxley beat Daniel Garcia in the main event.

Needless to say the rating dropped significantly the next week. Why would you tune back in? They didn't.

---

And that's kind of it...Tony Khan doesn't know what he's doing nor does anyone in the management over there.


----------



## CovidFan

wow. terribad rating for Rampage.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

3venflow said:


> Here's an easy-to-read year-on-year chart for Dynamite, RAW, Smackdown, NXT, IMPACT and cable shows in general, courtesy of Brandon Thurston.
> 
> The right-most category (non-news cable originals) I think is the best to compare wrestling in general to (except Smackdown since that isn't cable) as it shows how wrestling is comparing to the industry in general.
> 
> View attachment 129287


Fuck me looks like cable is in a free fall in 18-49 -- I remember I brought it up maybe 2 months ago if the gas hikes and price increases were going to start showing in cord cutting and June showing a -44% drop seems like it actually hit.


----------



## Mr316

Chip Chipperson said:


> The lack of ratings and growth for AEW is simple, it doesn't appeal to the masses, they've definitely tried and still do but they don't know how to hook them. Take a look at just two examples of when AEW successfully attracted the masses and how quickly they fucked it up.
> 
> ---
> 
> AEW Dynamite Episode #1: AEW debuts to a smidge over 1.4 million people, a great audience for a wrestling show and very promising. With two hours to hook the audience they gave them a stupidly long opening match between Cody Rhodes and Sammy Guevara who was dressed in his panda headgear. I tuned out myself during this stupidly long opener.
> 
> MJF squashed Brandon Cutler, we never learned who MJF was
> 
> Stupidly long match between Adam Page (Who the audience didn't know at this point) and PAC (Who was a WWE midcarder)
> 
> Nyla Rose Vs Riho who the audience don't know anything about.
> 
> Token AEW Six Man which was Jericho, Santana and Ortiz Vs Kenny and The Bucks. Casual audience only really knows Jericho who was late forties at this point.
> 
> Jake Hager ends the show as the big surprise.
> 
> Why would you tune back in for week 2? They didn't, rating dropped down by about 400,000 people.
> 
> ---
> 
> AEW Rampage Episode #2: CM Punk debuts in the opening segment which was stupid (Should've been the main event segment) in front of 1.1 million people.
> 
> Followed up by The Jurassic Express Vs Private Party in another stupidly long match featuring four wrestlers the audience doesn't know.
> 
> Then Jade Cargill beat Kiera Hogan who are also two wrestlers that your average wrestling fan wouldn't know.
> 
> Then Moxley beat Daniel Garcia in the main event.
> 
> Needless to say the rating dropped significantly the next week. Why would you tune back in? They didn't.
> 
> ---
> 
> And that's kind of it...Tony Khan doesn't know what he's doing nor does anyone in the management over there.


So true!


----------



## validreasoning

Randy Lahey said:


> I don’t think it’s cancel territory given the time slot. If it were in * primetime * anything under a 0.15 would be cancelville.


Friday at 10pm is primetime What Time is Really Primetime? | Nielsen.

Second part of your sentence isn't correct either


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> G E N I U S !
> 
> *i’ll phone DC and tell them!*


I can confirm that he did tell us


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I went and checked a random day in 2020 to see what TNT had on a friday before Rampage

couldn’t find it - slot did not come up in the first 150

somehow…. Weirdly…. It seems like this is not cancel territory.

but, its still bad and they should shape up


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> Wrestling is dead, bro. Only the hardcore of hardcore watch it. No casual fans are watching. If you like WWE, then you are not going to like AEW. If you don’t like wrestling as you have known it, then there is a mountain of reasons as to why you won’t even watch AEW. Howard Stern’s reasoning being the #1 reason.
> 
> And if AEW has to do its shows like WWE to steal some of that remaining 2 million wrestling fans, then I am goddamn glad they are doing lesser numbers.


Wrestling is far from dead and AEW is doing shows like WWE. The casuals flock to WWE and have even went to AEW at times but AEW does whatever it can to run them the fuck off. Which is one of the reasons why people aren’t into AEW. It’s not because AEW is some wrestling based show only for the purest of wrestling fans. Its because the show is wwe lite. Jericho with fireballs, cinematic trash, old attitude era tropes and shitty slapstick humor. It’s all there in AEW and it’s often done shitter.



















both of these things have an attitude era like vibe but one was forgotten in a day and the other has gotten attention from casuals everywhere. Why? One reason is yea because wwe is bigger another is because the entire thing was done 300x better at summerslam. The Brock thing was an unpredictable spin on using vehicles in wrestling and the Jericho one was a shitty looking knock off of an Austin beer bath.




BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> But by that logic if WWE had been doing better than the overall pie of people willing to watch wrestling would be larger and AEW would be doing better as well wouldn't it?
> 
> The problem is that they shrunk the pie of people willing to give wrestling a shot and have become so synonymous with pro wrestling that ESPN doesn't even have a wrestling category, it's just all called and reported under the banner of WWE.
> 
> If you didn't like WWE why would you care about what is seemingly just another WWE brand in AEW.


The pie is smaller but the pie isn’t completely gone. Casuals do give AEW a chance. We seen it when they signed Punk and AEW got 1.5 million. We seen it when AEW overused gimmick matches and would consistently get a million (until they ran that concept into the ground). Casuals have given AEW a chance, AEW just hasn’t given them much of a reason to stick around. AEW doesn’t want casual fans, AEWs own fanbase dosent want them either. AEW fans want AEW to stay niche. They don’t want the company to beat raw or smackdown because then they aren’t the “cool kids” who are into something that nobody else is into. It’s like the dude who loves his local bar band and then claims they sold out when they hit it big.


LifeInCattleClass said:


> i said ‘i think nobody…’
> 
> ie> nobody i’ve seen - and since Bdon said what he said after that, he can explain to you why he disagrees
> 
> 🤷‍♂️
> 
> why are you so eager for a gotcha moment bruv? Be happy, Papa HHH is booking Raw tonight. Life is good


I just found it funny that you denied there were people like this and only 5 hours or so later multiple AEW fans started blaming WWE for AEWs lack of success.

It’s not a “gotcha” moment. It’s a “you have your head in the sand“ moment. AEW fans have brought these excuses up for years and considering you post on this site more than most, I’m quite surprised that this excuse has slipped your purview.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> Wrestling is far from dead and AEW is doing shows like WWE. The casuals flock to WWE and have even went to AEW at times but AEW does whatever it can to run them the fuck off. Which is one of the reasons why people aren’t into AEW. It’s not because AEW is some wrestling based show only for the purest of wrestling fans. Its because the show is wwe lite. Jericho with fireballs, cinematic trash, old attitude era tropes and shitty slapstick humor. It’s all there in AEW and it’s often done shitter.
> 
> View attachment 129305
> 
> 
> View attachment 129306
> 
> 
> both of these things have an attitude era like vibe but one was forgotten in a day and the other has gotten attention from casuals everywhere. Why? One reason is yea because wwe is bigger another is because the entire thing was done 300x better at summerslam. The Brock thing was an unpredictable spin on using vehicles in wrestling and the Jericho one was a shitty looking knock off of an Austin beer bath.
> 
> 
> 
> The pie is smaller but the pie isn’t completely gone. Casuals do give AEW a chance. We seen it when they signed Punk and AEW got 1.5 million. We seen it when AEW overused gimmick matches and would consistently get a million (until they ran that concept into the ground). Casuals have given AEW a chance, AEW just hasn’t given them much of a reason to stick around. AEW doesn’t want casual fans, AEWs own fanbase dosent want them either. AEW fans want AEW to stay niche. They don’t want the company to beat raw or smackdown because then they aren’t the “cool kids” who are into something that nobody else is into. It’s like the dude who loves his local bar band and then claims they sold out when they hit it big.
> 
> I just found it funny that you denied there were people like this and only 5 hours or so later multiple AEW fans started blaming WWE for AEWs lack of success.
> 
> It’s not a “gotcha” moment. It’s a “you have your head in the sand“ moment. AEW fans have brought these excuses up for years and considering you post on this site more than most, I’m quite surprised that this excuse has slipped your purview.


my purview you say

verily


----------



## bdon

Imagine thinking casual fans exist in 2022. You show your age, bro. The 2 million people tuning into WWE is not a casual audience. That is less than a half percent of the entire US population. That is not casual. Lmao


----------



## bdon

The 1.7 million or so fans that still tune into Raw is the equivalent of Rampage’s numbers. That’s a number propped up by the “I will not miss the show ever” crowd.


----------



## validreasoning

bdon said:


> Imagine thinking casual fans exist in 2022. You show your age, bro. The 2 million people tuning into WWE is not a casual audience. That is less than a half percent of the entire US population. That is not casual. Lmao


You are ignoring how many watch on hulu, peacock, dvr and especially youtube.

There isn't 2 million people on the IWC or even 1/10th or 1/100th of that.

Smackdown got 167 comments past Friday on a worldwide basis here on biggest wrestling forum on the web yet 2.2 million viewers live in the US, so where are the 2.1999 million other hardcores at July 29, 2022 SmackDown Discussion Thread: Sofia...


----------



## bdon

validreasoning said:


> You are ignoring how many watch on hulu, peacock, dvr and especially youtube.
> 
> There isn't 2 million people on the IWC or even 1/10th or 1/100th of that.
> 
> Smackdown got 167 comments past Friday on a worldwide basis here on biggest wrestling forum on the web yet 2.2 million viewers live in the US, so where are the 2.1999 million other hardcores at July 29, 2022 SmackDown Discussion Thread: Sofia...


Now you’re sounding like @LifeInCattleClass making excuses.

There aren’t 400k motherfuckers posting about Rampage either. I guess _The Casuals_ ARE watching Rampage, CattleClass.


----------



## Prosper

validreasoning said:


> You are ignoring how many watch on hulu, peacock, dvr and especially youtube.
> 
> There isn't 2 million people on the IWC or even 1/10th or 1/100th of that.
> 
> Smackdown got 167 comments past Friday on a worldwide basis here on biggest wrestling forum on the web yet 2.2 million viewers live in the US, so where are the 2.1999 million other hardcores at July 29, 2022 SmackDown Discussion Thread: Sofia...


Says the guy that also ignores how many watch AEW online. You can’t present these arguments only when they suit you.


----------



## validreasoning

bdon said:


> Now you’re sounding like @LifeInCattleClass making excuses.
> 
> There aren’t 400k motherfuckers posting about Rampage either. I guess _The Casuals_ ARE watching Rampage, CattleClass.


Rampage viewership continues to erode so it's obvious they are not hardcore fans no

Your argument that 2 million is certain % of US population makes no sense. At peak of Attitude Era, Raw averaged just over 6 million viewers weekly which is less than 2% of US population and that was biggest boom in the industry since early 50s blowing away Hogan 80s era in popularity yet less than 2% of people living in the US watched Raw.

NBA regular season on TNT/ESPN averages 1.5m viewers, MLB averages 700,000 and NHL 500,000. I don't buy for one second there are more hardcore IWC members than three of the four biggest sports in the US.

Ton of fans out there not hardcore, just look at India alone Data: WrestleMania 38 watched by 56m+ in India


Prosper said:


> Says the guy that also ignores how many watch AEW online. You can’t present these arguments only when they suit you.


Where do I do that? I don't even comment on AEW viewers at all. I defended AEW viewership big time in the 'Is AEW like WCW 2000' thread but again you see my name and immediately try to bury my post


----------



## bdon

Prosper said:


> Says the guy that also ignores how many watch AEW online. You can’t present these arguments only when they suit you.


Bingo. Lol


----------



## Prosper

The Boy Wonder said:


> At one point will Vince start to get bitter towards Triple H? 🤣





validreasoning said:


> Rampage viewership continues to erode so it's obvious they are not hardcore fans no
> 
> Your argument that 2 million is certain % of US population makes no sense. At peak of Attitude Era, Raw averaged just over 6 million viewers weekly which is less than 2% of US population and that was biggest boom in the industry since early 50s blowing away Hogan 80s era in popularity yet less than 2% of people living in the US watched Raw.
> 
> NBA regular season on TNT/ESPN averages 1.5m viewers, MLB averages 700,000 and NHL 500,000. I don't buy for one second there are more hardcore IWC members than three of the four biggest sports in the US.
> 
> Ton of fans out there not hardcore, just look at India alone Data: WrestleMania 38 watched by 56m+ in India
> 
> 
> Where do I do that? I don't even comment on AEW viewers at all. I defended AEW viewership big time in the 'Is AEW like WCW 2000' thread but again you see my name and immediately try to bury my post


You just did above in the same post. "Rampage viewership continues to erode"...How do you know how many are casual or hardcore? You say "obvious" like all hardcore fans are in the house on Friday night at 10PM watching wrestling. I never am. Obviously they're watching later. Youtube views for Rampage always far exceed what you get on cable.


----------



## Randy Lahey

bdon said:


> Imagine thinking casual fans exist in 2022. You show your age, bro. The 2 million people tuning into WWE is not a casual audience. That is less than a half percent of the entire US population. That is not casual. Lmao


Exactly. The 1.70 million people watching Raw are primarily over 50+ diehards that have been watching for 30 years.

There’s nothing casual about them. WWE lost all their casual fans when they pushed Reigns and the women


----------



## midgetlover69

“Casual” or not there are a lot of people who are willing to watch wrestling who choose not to watch aew


----------



## .christopher.

Randy Lahey said:


> Exactly. The 1.70 million people watching Raw are primarily over 50+ diehards that have been watching for 30 years.
> 
> There’s nothing casual about them. WWE lost all their casual fans when they pushed Reigns and the women


Basically. It wasn't some hallucination that RAW was getting 4-5m viewers weekly before Reigns' push and the "women's revolution".


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Even the hardcore audience has declined a bit. The casual viewers are pretty much all gone, save a small few who will come for big one off shows, big returns, or some other random reason. The biggest attraction for casuals in wrestling is WrestleMania, and that doesn’t even make much of a difference nowadays for the weekly TV product leading up.

Casuals I knew personally who came back and watched wrestling when Rock returned in 2011-2013, who enjoyed things like the Punk pipebomb and his title run during that time, while also having things like Taker/HHH to help keep their interest… they were all gone by late 2015. Only watching Mania once a year but even that stopped at some point. They watched AEW once and thought it sucked, haven’t really watched it since. Had a brief conversation with them about the MJF promo before he left, but I don’t think they even saw anything else that show, and didn’t watch the week after. Same when CM Punk returned. Watched his return after the fact, but that was really that. Don’t even know if they know he won the AEW World Title.

So from my limited view point, casuals don’t give a shit about wrestling, and haven’t in about 7 years. Really Rock is the only thing that brought them back. Casuals don’t care about guys nowadays like Reigns, Rollins, Moxley, Omega, Bryan, even guys like Punk and Lesnar. It’s just 99% hardcore fans. Not all hardcore fans are the same though. There are old WWE fans who don’t let go, there are Indy fans that like watching crazy wrestling matches, and even then there are subsets within those.

Casuals don’t watch wrestling anymore. They left years ago.


----------



## .christopher.

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Even the hardcore audience has declined a bit. The casual viewers are pretty much all gone, save a small few who will come for big one off shows, big returns, or some other random reason. The biggest attraction for casuals in wrestling is WrestleMania, and that doesn’t even make much of a difference nowadays for the weekly TV product leading up.
> 
> Casuals I knew personally who came back and watched wrestling when Rock returned in 2011-2013, who enjoyed things like the Punk pipebomb and his title run during that time, while also having things like Taker/HHH to help keep their interest… they were all gone by late 2015. Only watching Mania once a year but even that stopped at some point. They watched AEW once and thought it sucked, haven’t really watched it since. Had a brief conversation with them about the MJF promo before he left, but I don’t think they even saw anything else that show, and didn’t watch the week after. Same when CM Punk returned. Watched his return after the fact, but that was really that. Don’t even know if they know he won the AEW World Title.
> 
> So from my limited view point, casuals don’t give a shit about wrestling, and haven’t in about 7 years. Really Rock is the only thing that brought them back. Casuals don’t care about guys like nowadays like Reigns, Rollins, Moxley, Omega, Bryan, even guys like Punk and Lesnar. It’s just 99% hardcore fans. Not all hardcore fans are the same though. There are old WWE fans who don’t let go, there are Indy fans that like watching crazy wrestling matches, and even then there are subsets within those.
> 
> Casuals don’t watch wrestling anymore. They left years ago.


Yep. Rock basically gifted WWE/SmackDown! 4m viewers when they debuted on FS1 and they lost a load instantly because why watch when the entire mens roster has been buried by a charisma vacuum? His never-ending feud with Lesnar even killed any drawing ability he had.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Warner just cancelled the freaking Batgirl movie. They are cutting money everywhere. Tony Khan needs to demonstrate that he is investing in creative talent.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

I said it months ago but Khan has too many pet projects going on with NJPW collaborations, this ROH stuff (Which seems to have stagnated in finding a content provider), the constant stop/go of presenting talent on your roster, etc. Meanwhile Rampage has been floundering for a while now. He should probably get his main shows in order first before doing all this extracurricular shit.


----------



## bdon

Mister Sinister said:


> Warner just cancelled the freaking Batgirl movie. They are cutting money everywhere. Tony Khan needs to demonstrate that he is investing in creative talent.


Warner been getting their teeth kicked in by Marvel for 2 decades running now. They are taking L’s everywhere. Warner needs to demonstrate that they are investing in creative talent.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> Raw will eventually sink below Dynamite in the 18-49 demo. It won’t be Dynamite increasing to pass them,but Dynamite decreasing at a lesser rate than Raw that will allow Dynamite to be the most popular wrestling show for 18-49.
> 
> The over 50+ viewer which is the majority of the total viewer number are so engrained with Raw over 30 years of being on TV that Dynamite doesn’t have really any chance of getting that segment.
> 
> It’d be like LIV Golf trying to do better ratings of 50+ over the PGA Tour. Simply isn’t going to happen




Lol he won't give it up


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 938,000
18-49: 0.32

#1 on cable for the sixth time in seven weeks (last week being the exception).

Last two months (viewers / 18-49)

7/27: 976,000 / 0.33
7/20: 910,000 / 0.32
7/13: 942,000 / 0.32
7/6: 979,000 / 0.36
6/29: 1,023,000 / 0.36 (Blood & Guts)
6/22: 878,000 / 0.31
6/15: 761,000 / 0.28
6/8: 939,000 / 0.34

They cleared the competition and then some in M18-49, but the F18-49 is still not great. A few weeks back they did 0.29 in F18-49 but it's been down since then. Boomer rating also wasn't great.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 938,000
> 18-49: 0.32
> 
> #1 on cable for the sixth time in seven weeks (last week being the exception).
> 
> Last two months (viewers / 18-49)
> 
> 7/27: 976,000 / 0.33
> 7/20: 910,000 / 0.32
> 7/13: 942,000 / 0.32
> 7/6: 979,000 / 0.36
> 6/29: 1,023,000 / 0.36 (Blood & Guts)
> 6/22: 878,000 / 0.31
> 6/15: 761,000 / 0.28
> 6/8: 939,000 / 0.34


nice one

good rating for a good show


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 938,000
> 18-49: 0.32
> 
> #1 on cable for the sixth time in seven weeks (last week being the exception).
> 
> Last two months (viewers / 18-49)
> 
> 7/27: 976,000 / 0.33
> 7/20: 910,000 / 0.32
> 7/13: 942,000 / 0.32
> 7/6: 979,000 / 0.36
> 6/29: 1,023,000 / 0.36 (Blood & Guts)
> 6/22: 878,000 / 0.31
> 6/15: 761,000 / 0.28
> 6/8: 939,000 / 0.34
> 
> They cleared the competition and then some in M18-49, but the F18-49 is still not great. A few weeks back they did 0.29 in F18-49 but it's been down since then. Boomer rating also wasn't great.
> 
> View attachment 129586


So they can’t even get half of Raw’s audience…


----------



## RainmakerV2

Mr316 said:


> So they can’t even get half of Raw’s audience…



Barely half their demo. But a few certain people can't wait for MNF to start so they can ejaculate over the demo being close again.


----------



## La Parka

RainmakerV2 said:


> Barely half their demo. But a few certain people can't wait for MNF to start so they can ejaculate over the demo being close again.


MNF has nothing on that fucking classic of a baseball game featuring the Mets and Yankees last week.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555285695387803650

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sad Panda

Respectable numbers. About par for the course according to recent viewership numbers.


----------



## bigwrestlingfan22

They just can't get over a million at any constant basis. Sort of sad considering where they debuted at. Second lowest overall viewer total this summer for them after that monster WWE rating. ouch.


----------



## DammitChrist

bigwrestlingfan22 said:


> They just can't get over a million at any constant basis. Sort of sad considering where they debuted at. Second lowest overall viewer total this summer for them after that monster WWE rating. ouch.


They've consistently ranked #1 on their network 6 times over the last couple of months.

'Ouch'?

They're doing good with the numbers atm (  ), and that's with some of their top stars being absent too


----------



## bigwrestlingfan22

DammitChrist said:


> They've consistently ranked #1 on their network 6 times over the last couple of months.
> 
> 'Ouch'?
> 
> They're doing good with the numbers atm (  ), and that's with some of their top stars being absent too


They got absolutely merked in the ratings war this week by WWE. Oh and Meltzer broke news that they aren't safe with Warner. To act like there is no problem here is why you are 100% known as a AEW stan who won't say a negative word about them. There is clearly a reason for concern right now with AEW and their TV situation. To act like there isn't is bordering on the insane. But then again you are the same one who says a sub 400 number on Rampage is no big deal!


----------



## The real Axel

Dubbalos celebrating 930k ya love to see it  

Are they truly content with never passing their debut rating?


----------



## bigwrestlingfan22

The real Axel said:


> Dubbalos celebrating 930k ya love to see it
> 
> Are they truly content with never passing their debut rating?


It's pretty hilarious how they are celebrating a sub 1 million rating. I remember they told us once the change to to TBS was made it'd never be below a million again due to the west coast numbers. There are 3 or 4 posters on here who will never ever say a bad thing about AEW just the way it is.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*No MJF or Punk is really hurting them. Moxley isn't that guy and never will be, and we've been SICK of Jericho for two years.*


----------



## DammitChrist

bigwrestlingfan22 said:


> They got absolutely merked in the ratings war this week by WWE. Oh and Meltzer broke news that they aren't safe with Warner. *To act like there is no problem here is why you are 100% known as a AEW stan who won't say a negative word about them.* There is clearly a reason for concern right now with AEW and their TV situation. To act like there isn't is bordering on the insane. But then again you are the same one who says a sub 400 number on Rampage is no big deal!


Why would I be negative for no good reason when they rarely ever disappoint with their programming? 

Anyway, you're definitely wrong here since they're continuing to gradually grow their audience, and they'll continue to stay on TV drawing solid numbers too 

By the way, It's on you here if you're still unable to understand the context of Rampage's viewership months later.


----------



## bigwrestlingfan22

DammitChrist said:


> Why would I be negative for no good reason when they rarely ever disappoint with their programming?
> 
> Anyway, you're definitely wrong here since they're continuing to gradually grow their audience, and they'll continue to stay on TV drawing solid numbers too
> 
> By the way, It's on you here if you're still unable to understand the context of Rampage's viewership months later.


This is why we struggle to take you and a few of the AEW guys seriously. "Gradually grow their audience" uh want to tell us what their initial ratings were again? Well over 1 million. Sorry but we live in the real world.


----------



## DammitChrist

bigwrestlingfan22 said:


> It's pretty hilarious how they are celebrating a sub 1 million rating. I remember they told us once the change to to TBS was made it'd never be below a million again due to the west coast numbers. There are 3 or 4 posters on here who will never ever say a bad thing about AEW just the way it is.


It's pretty amusing that you're still blatantly no-selling the fact that they've consistently been the highest rated program on cable 6 times over the last 7 weeks; but yet you want to pretend that they're in trouble.


----------



## Mr316

The Legit Lioness said:


> *No MJF or Punk is really hurting them. Moxley isn't that guy and never will be, and we've been SICK of Jericho for two years.*


Talents aren’t the problem. The person writing the show is the problem.


----------



## .christopher.

So, you’re missing the majority of your big stars. Finally, one is ready to return. Instead of bringing them back to a hot angle to try and bring some excitement and viewers , you not only bring him back to have another heat free match against a jabroni, you have him lose, too.

What was the result? No impact on the ratings whatsoever. From the same guy who brought AEW its highest ever viewership when people actually thought he was going to be treated like something.

Bravo.


----------



## Prosper

#1 on cable again, another good rating.


----------



## 3venflow

bigwrestlingfan22 said:


> Sort of sad considering where they debuted at.


You mean a pilot did better than the norm? That must be a first...

They've never done a million consistently throughout the year (seven weeks being their max during their hottest spell with all the new debutants). And with the cable audience shrinking every month, it'll only get harder. The only way they may get bigger viewer numbers on a regular basis is if they land a broadcast TV deal or go on a top streaming platform.

These are their yearly average viewers, which doesn't mitigate for several things (such as preemptions during the playoffs and competition), but they're still up year-on-year in that metric.

2019: 903,333 
2020: 810,755
2021: 891,810
2022*: 957,000


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> So, you’re missing the majority of your big stars. Finally, one is ready to return. Instead of bringing them back to a hot angle to try and bring some excitement and viewers , you not only bring him back to have another heat free match against a jabroni, you have him lose, too.
> 
> What was the result? No impact on the ratings whatsoever. From the same guy who brought AEW its highest ever viewership when people actually thought he was going to be treated like something.
> 
> Bravo.


Daniel Garcia winning last week was the right decision since it cemented his status as a credible, up-and-coming future star.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Consistent demo number. Dynamite’s core is 0.32-0.35 which they should be able to stay at. 

By next year that’s where Raw will be too so it’s important for Dynamite to simply not lose their base.


----------



## .christopher.

DammitChrist said:


> Daniel Garcia winning last week was the right decision since it cemented his future status as a credible, up-and-coming future star.


Lmaaaaaaaaaaaooo

Almost as good as comparing Wheeler Yuta to Austin and Steamboat. Almost.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

RAW more then doubled them up in Overall and almost doubled them up in the demo. Horrible number by RL standards.


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> Lmaaaaaaaaaaaooo


Yep, it's amusing how truthful that post was about Daniel Garcia beating Bryan Danielson being the right decision really is here (which it indeed was btw) 



> Almost as good as comparing Wheeler Yuta to Austin and Steamboat. Almost.


You must be confusing me for someone else because I honestly have no idea what you're on about.


----------



## Randy Lahey

DammitChrist said:


> It's pretty amusing that you're still blatantly no-selling the fact that they've consistently been the highest rated program on cable 6 times over the last 7 weeks; but yet you want to pretend that they're in trouble.


Yeah. It’s a show that Turner pays 20% of what USA pays Raw to still win the night.

Every night AEW wins ends up hurting Raw. Why pay what USA does? If you pay 5x for a show, it better do 5x the rating. Raw doesn’t.


These Vince-bots failed math class


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> Consistent demo number. Dynamite’s core is 0.32-0.35 which they should be able to stay at.
> 
> By next year that’s where Raw will be too so it’s important for Dynamite to simply not lose their base.



Dude will be on his deathbed trying to calculate ways Dynamite beats RAW in the demo no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary lol.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I really do think AEW is in trouble with Warner being cost-cutting mode.

Why would Turner pay AEW at all? They were perfectly fine and saving $45 million per year before AEW became a thing. Now they're spending more and getting much bang for their buck at all. TNT and TBS are just fine without AEW. Can't say the same for USA without WWE and it's prorgramming


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

RainmakerV2 said:


> Dude will be on his deathbed trying to calculate ways Dynamite beats RAW in the demo no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary lol.


His amount of COPE is unfounded. It's BEAUTIFUL.


----------



## 3venflow

Showstopper said:


> RAW more then doubled them up in Overall and almost doubled them up in the demo. Horrible number by RL standards.


If AEW was making half of what WWE was making, them doing half in comparison to RAW might have more relevance. Also, anyone with a brain compares A vs. B on averages, not a single week. I doubt RAW doubles them in anything over the entirety of 2022 unless they're averaging 1.9m.

Wish for the prosperity of all wrestling promotions, not just your fav.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Showstopper said:


> RAW more then doubled them up in Overall and almost doubled them up in the demo. Horrible number by RL standards.


since when do you comment about AEW ratings? Thought you didn’t really care


----------



## Mr316

So funny to see AEW fans bragging about being #1 on cable TV with 938k and being the only live event on Wednesday nights that cost 1 million $ per episode to produce. Cable is fucking dead except for live sports and Tucker Carlson. 😂


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

LifeInCattleClass said:


> since when do you comment about AEW ratings? Thought you didn’t really care


This is for that Randy dude. You should check his posts out on the RAW thread. It's deserved.


----------



## .christopher.

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, it's amusing how truthful that post was about Daniel Garcia beating Bryan Danielson being the right decision really is here (which it indeed was btw)
> 
> 
> 
> You must be confusing me for someone else because I honestly have no idea what you're on about.


I’m not saying you said that. I’m saying what you said was almost as funny as that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

All the Raw-files suddenly appearing

please do a quick calculation for us

in baseball they talk about ‘cost per run’ or ‘cost per win’

just calculate what RAWs cost per 0.01 rating point is and come back to me - i want to see something


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Showstopper said:


> This is for that Randy dude. You should check his posts out on the RAW thread. It's deserved.


dunno - if one aew guy bothers you in the raw thread, just look around mate. There’s more than enough of that back in this thread

like 10-fold


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

LifeInCattleClass said:


> All the Raw-files suddenly appearing
> 
> please do a quick calculation for us
> 
> in baseball they talk about ‘cost per run’ or ‘cost per win’
> 
> just calculate what RAWs cost per 0.01 rating point is and come back to me - i want to see something


Problem with that is USA would have nothing w/o WWE. Can't say the same for TNT/TBS with re: AEW.


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> If AEW was making half of what WWE was making, them doing half in comparison to RAW might have more relevance. Also, anyone with a brain compares A vs. B on averages, not a single week. I doubt RAW doubles them in anything over the entirety of 2022 unless they're averaging 1.9m.
> 
> Wish for the prosperity of all wrestling promotions, not just your fav.


Anyone with a brain would know that advertisers will want to advertise right after a Logan Paul segment than advertise during a match where Jericho is getting cut open by a pizza cutter.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> So funny to see AEW fans bragging about being #1 on cable TV with 938k and being the only live event on Wednesday nights that cost 1 million $ per episode to produce. Cable is fucking dead except for live sports and Tucker Carlson. 😂


How is being #1 on cable for several weeks something to be frowned upon here?

Edit:

For the record, that #1 ranking is also heavily weighted using the demographic numbers too btw.


----------



## Sad Panda

Mr316 said:


> So funny to see AEW fans bragging about being #1 on cable TV with 938k and being the only live event on Wednesday nights that cost 1 million $ per episode to produce. Cable is fucking dead except for live sports and Tucker Carlson. 😂


#1 is #1 no?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Showstopper said:


> Problem with that is USA would have nothing w/o WWE. Can't say the same for TNT/TBS with re: AEW.


they did not have a top 50 show on a wed or friday for years before AEW

much less a top 5


----------



## Mr316

Showstopper said:


> I really do think AEW is in trouble with Warner being cost-cutting mode.
> 
> Why would Turner pay AEW at all? They were perfectly fine and saving $45 million per year before AEW became a thing. Now they're spending more and getting much bang for their buck at all. TNT and TBS are just fine without AEW. Can't say the same for USA without WWE and it's prorgramming


They can just put two extra episodes of Big Bang and they get more money from advertisers than for two hours of Dynamite.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they did not have a top 50 show on a wed or friday for years before AEW
> 
> much less a top 5


They have the NBA Playoffs alone off the top of my head which destroys AEW..


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> They can just put two extra episodes of Big Bang and they get more money from advertisers than for two hours of Dynamite.


do you think reruns of Big Bang costs less than Dynamite?


----------



## Mr316

Sad Panda said:


> #1 is #1 no?


Sure. But doesn’t mean shit for Warner if a show with 450k gets more advertising.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Showstopper said:


> They have the NBA Playoffs alone off the top of my head which destroys AEW..


i said shows - consistent weekly


----------



## Sad Panda

Mr316 said:


> Sure. But doesn’t mean shit for Warner if a show with 450k gets more advertising.


So your a television advertising expert now?

Meltzer mentions something’s and your just gonna run with it huh?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i said shows - consistent weekly


They air reruns of of former big name sitcoms that do well enough and cost nothing due to being reruns. Also, Warner is in cost-cutting mode. They might be happy enough to become a rerun channel again.


----------



## DammitChrist

Sad Panda said:


> So your a television advertising expert now?
> 
> Meltzer mentions something’s and your just gonna run with it huh?


Dave Meltzer's 'unreliable' word only matters in topics when it's convenient.


----------



## Mr316

Sad Panda said:


> So your a television advertising expert now?
> 
> Meltzer mentions something’s and your just gonna run with it huh?


I was gonna open a thread about it even before Meltzer mentioned this. I’m not surprised at all. I really do think AEW is fucked and will have to find a new network.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Showstopper said:


> They air reruns of of former big name sitcoms that do well enough and cost nothing due to being reruns. Also, Warner is in cost-cutting mode. They might be happy enough to become a rerun channel again.


mate, i don’t know where the thought of prime time reruns are cheap comes from

they are not. Licensing is a bitch

reruns are also diminishing returns no matter how you slice it.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

LifeInCattleClass said:


> mate, i don’t know where the thought of prime time reruns are cheap comes from
> 
> they are not. Licensing is a bitch
> 
> reruns are also diminishing returns no matter how you slice it.


Their reruns. Meaning these episodes aired already and are years old...and multiple times at that. There's a reason alot of Cable Networks do nothing but air old sitcom repeats...because they're relatively inexpensive in comparison to other stuff, like live sports.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555295380543356928


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Boop


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555294297066446850


----------



## Mr316

LifeInCattleClass said:


> mate, i don’t know where the thought of prime time reruns are cheap comes from
> 
> they are not. Licensing is a bitch
> 
> reruns are also diminishing returns no matter how you slice it.


But you do realize that if AEW was actually succesful…


they would not have been replaced on TNT by the NHL;
Rampage would not be in a dead time slot on Friday Nights;
Rampage would not constantly move timeslot like it was a rerun of some old show no one watches.

Anyone with a brain can see it. Warner couldn’t care less about AEW. Tony was lucky to have a contact but now this guy is no longer there. Not looking good.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Showstopper said:


> Their reruns. Meaning these episodes aired already and are years old...and multiple times at that. There's a reason alot of Cable Networks do nothing but air old sitcom repeats...because they're relatively inexpensive in comparison to other stuff, like live sports.


yeah, if you’re gonna rerun old Sanford and Sons - sure.

or i guess old Friends that everybody and their uncle licensed

but putting 4 x episodes of big bang on a Wed will not be cheap


----------



## Sad Panda

Mr316 said:


> I was gonna open a thread about it even before Meltzer mentioned this. I’m not surprised at all. I really do think AEW is fucked and will have to find a new network.


Again, based off of what exactly? I’ll be the first to say that I don’t feel like AEW has maximized their talent pool and probably missed out on a broader fan base. BUT with that said, AEW on a rapidly declining medium consistently gives them #3-#1 ratings every Wednesday 52 Wednesdays out of the year.

Im no expert on this stuff, and maybe because Warner Discovery are in cost cutting mode it will ultimately lead to them either offering a similar deal or no deal at all to AEW. I don’t know. But just based off of pure performance AEW is probably their most consistent program from the start of the year through the end of it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> But you do realize that if AEW was actually succesful…
> 
> 
> they would not have been replaced on TNT by the NHL;
> Rampage would not be in a dead time slot on Friday Nights;
> Rampage would not constantly move timeslot like it was a rerun of some old show no one watches.
> 
> Anyone with a brain can see it. Warner couldn’t care less about AEW. Tony was lucky to have a contact but now this guy is no longer there. Not looking good.


quick, someone play the FUCKING theme of Curb your Enthusiasm


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555294297066446850


----------



## Mr316

Sad Panda said:


> Again, based off of what exactly? I’ll be the first to say that I don’t feel like AEW has maximized their talent pool and probably missed out on a broader fan base. BUT with that said, AEW on a rapidly declining medium consistently gives them #3-#1 ratings every Wednesday 52 Wednesdays out of the year.
> 
> Im no expert on this stuff, and maybe because Warner Discovery are in cost cutting mode it will ultimately lead to them either offering a similar deal or no deal at all to AEW. I don’t know. But just based off of pure performance AEW is probably their most consistent program from the start of the year through the end of it.


I


LifeInCattleClass said:


> quick, someone play the FUCKING theme of Curb your Enthusiasm
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555294297066446850


Doesn’t mean a damn thing.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> I
> 
> 
> Doesn’t mean a damn thing.


well, now you’re just blatantly trolling


----------



## bigwrestlingfan22

The copium is strong tonight with AEW stans. Love to see it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bigwrestlingfan22 said:


> The copium is strong tonight with AEW stans. Love to see it.


don’t you mean the trolling is strong and you love to partake?

makes your nipples hard or something?

i dunno, you guys are all pretty weird xD


----------



## Mr316

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, now you’re just blatantly trolling


I’m not trolling. Doesn’t mean AEW will get renewed.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Mr316 said:


> I’m not trolling. Doesn’t mean AEW will get renewed.


Do you want it renewed?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> I’m not trolling. Doesn’t mean AEW will get renewed.


lol, you’re going on mute until next week or when i get word you’re funny again xD


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> I’m not trolling. Doesn’t mean AEW will get renewed.


I bet my truck that they will get renewed.


----------



## Mr316

Dr. Middy said:


> Do you want it renewed?


I don’t think they deserve it but sure!


----------



## Sad Panda

bigwrestlingfan22 said:


> The copium is strong tonight with AEW stans. Love to see it.


I don’t think it’s “copium”. More just people have different opinions than you. Also with the opinion Meltzer offered it has given certain folks ammo to announce the death of AEW.


----------



## DammitChrist

Sad Panda said:


> I don’t think it’s “copium”. More just people have different opinions than you. Also with the opinion Meltzer offered it has given certain folks ammo to pronounce the death of AEW.


Wait, Dave Meltzer is suddenly believable now because he said something negative about AEW's future?

I still think he's a really reliable source btw, but there are some occasions where I respectfully disagree with him. He's still a credible source though.


----------



## Sad Panda

DammitChrist said:


> Wait, Dave Meltzer is suddenly believable now because he said something negative about AEW's future?
> 
> I still think he's a really reliable source btw, but there are some occasions where I respectfully disagree with him. He's still a credible source though.


I think he’s credible too. He’s been around the business long enough to lend an informative opinion, obviously. But with that said what he offered in that snippet was nothing but opinion based off of news reports of Warner Media. Nothing more, nothing less. Alot can happen between now and the end of
2023.


----------



## the_flock

DammitChrist said:


> How is being #1 on cable for several weeks something to be frowned upon here?
> 
> Edit:
> 
> For the record, that #1 ranking is also heavily weighted using the demographic numbers too btw.


Except they've never been number 1. Oh you're obsessing over the demographic of 24 year old neckbeards, with straight pubes, webbed feet and black teeth, living in their parents basements. Oh yeah AEW is definitely number 1 in that demo


----------



## Dr. Middy

Mr316 said:


> I don’t think they deserve it but sure!


I mean if you don't think it deserves it, then it's no surprise you think anybody arguing that AEW is successful as out of their minds or something. 

Same goes for any AEW fans attempting any conversation with the bunch of people basically hoping it get cancelled in the thread Smark made.


----------



## Geert Wilders

normal rating for AEW. too much importance placed on ratings.


----------



## Sad Panda

the_flock said:


> Except they've never been number 1. Oh you're obsessing over the demographic of 24 year old neckbeards, with straight pubes, webbed feet and black teeth, living in their patents basements. Oh yeah AEW is definitely number 1 in that demo


Very witty stuff!


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> quick, someone play the FUCKING theme of Curb your Enthusiasm
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555294297066446850


So what? They are not even sports in their eyes and in the same sentence as 90 day fiancé and whatever that other stuff is. And I am pretty sure 90 day fiancé doesnt cost 45m?! How many none-news and sports premieres does they have? You cant just say „hey look they are shown in a broschure“ when its the one of „thats what we cancel next year“


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> So what? They are not even sports in their eyes and in the same sentence as 90 day fiancé and whatever that other stuff is. And I am pretty sure 90 day fiancé doesnt cost 45m?! How many none-news and sports premieres does they have? You cant just say „hey look they are shown in a broschure“ when its the one of „thats what we cancel next year“


c’mon man, even you don’t believe what you just typed xD

90 day fiancé most likely cost per episode close to Dynamite actually


----------



## Geert Wilders

fabi1982 said:


> So what? They are not even sports in their eyes and in the same sentence as 90 day fiancé and whatever that other stuff is. And I am pretty sure 90 day fiancé doesnt cost 45m?! How many none-news and sports premieres does they have? You cant just say „hey look they are shown in a broschure“ when its the one of „thats what we cancel next year“


because wrestling is not a sport dummy.

who the fuck watches wrestling as a sport?


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> c’mon man, even you don’t believe what you just typed xD
> 
> 90 day fiancé most likely cost per episode close to Dynamite actually


Same goes to you posting random tweets to counter boop whatevery negative stuff people have to say.

And yes it is embarrasing when you are mentioned right next to 90 day fiancé


----------



## Randy Lahey

The WWE-Bots are abnormally feisty today. If you look at long term trends, Raw is sinking in demo about 10-15% a year. That puts them in the 0.35-0.45 range. Some of the stuff around Vince spiked things recently but it wore off and that’s the trend they are moving too. 

Now, let’s just say AEW Dynamite is in the 0.28-0.33 range for next year which is reasonable given how sticky and consistent their audience has been. 

0.35-0.45 vs 0.28-0.33

One show isn’t 5x more valuable than the other. And if Dave is right, that AEW doing 0.28-0.33 is too expensive to renew, you best believe Raw is absolutely fucked. Bc NBC Universal/Comcast has already lost 2 billion dollars on Peacock and one of Peacock’s major investments was WWE Network. They ain’t making that mistake again. 

So WWE bots, just chill. The math isn’t in your favor. If you like wwe great. There’s a forum for that. This isn’t it though.

And if you hate AEW, we’ll your wrestling opinions are pretty shit. It’s like fans of Marvel movies thinking The Godfather sucks.


----------



## fabi1982

Geert Wilders said:


> because wrestling is not a sport dummy.
> 
> who the fuck watches wrestling as a sport?


Looking how hard some get over lengthy matches and stuff I think most AEW fans do think its a sport…it is called „sports entertainment“ for a reason 🥸


----------



## fabi1982

See eyerolling jerk is the best example


----------



## DammitChrist

fabi1982 said:


> Looking how hard some get over lengthy matches and stuff I think most AEW fans do think its a sport…it is called „sports entertainment“ for a reason 🥸


Lengthy wrestling matches that are of top-quality sounds more like professional wrestling to me.


----------



## fabi1982

DammitChrist said:


> Lengthy wrestling matches that are of top-quality sounds more like professional wrestling to me.


And professional wrestling is what exaclty?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Same goes to you posting random tweets to counter boop whatevery negative stuff people have to say.
> 
> And yes it is embarrasing when you are mentioned right next to 90 day fiancé


do you know what all the shows mentioned have in common?

they are the top rated shows on the network

nothing embarrassing about it. Wrestling is trash tv / reality tv for men anyway

that slide is definitely not inconsequential and is definitely not random


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> do you know what all the shows mentioned have in common?
> 
> they are the top rated shows on the network
> 
> nothing embarrassing about it. Wrestling is trash tv / reality tv for men anyway
> 
> that slide is definitely not inconsequential and is definitely not random


Doesnt it is a common thing here to be embarrased that sometimes more people watxh 90 day fiancé than AEW? Or whatever other trash they get beaten by?

And the „is trash tv for men“ is why AEW is in trouble according to BD, look at WWE they are reaching for the females, becauer they bring the ad dollars. Violence loving men dont…but you are not to convince to step at least a little away from your idea of „AEW is perfect“…but you know what, I love you for that


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Doesnt it is a common thing here to be embarrased that sometimes more people watxh 90 day fiancé than AEW? Or whatever other trash they get beaten by?
> 
> And the „is trash tv for men“ is why AEW is in trouble according to BD, look at WWE they are reaching for the females, becauer they bring the ad dollars. Violence loving men dont…but you are not to convince to step at least a little away from your idea of „AEW is perfect“…but you know what, I love you for that


no, why would it be embarrassing? XD XD

more people watch a LOT of stuff more than wrestling - AEW and WWE combined. Its only the demo that saves wrestling

who is BD?

i don’t think AEW is perfect. Far from it

i DO think the insane hate it receives is heavily out of balance to the quality it puts out on a regular basis - which will always make me defend something. Not just wrestling, but anything


----------



## Randy Lahey

I think the most interesting thing this week will be the quarterly breakdowns involving the womens match. If they lost a ton again, Tony could scrap it


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Look, I’ve had my gripes with this product lately, but Jesus fuck, what is wrong with being the #1 show on cable for the night AGAIN? How is that a bad thing? You people are back to finding any reason imaginable to keep shitting on it. So it’s not doing numbers close to RAW. Guess what, not a whole fucking lot of anything else is. Yeah, and all of a sudden you’re all sucking Meltzer’s dick now because he’s reporting something less than promising about AEW’s future TV deal prospects. Tony Khan can’t book. Their story lines suck. Wheeler Yuta getting a push is why this company is going to fail. This shit gets more and more ridiculous every week. You’re all fucking pathetic.


----------



## La Parka

Randy Lahey said:


> I think the most interesting thing this week will be the quarterly breakdowns involving the womens match. If they lost a ton again, Tony could scrap it


He’s never dropping the women’s division.

You have to get over this lol.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555285695387803650
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


OMG This is embarrassing


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> OMG This is embarrassing


what is?

being number 1?

or your reaction to it?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The week in tv so far by demo


----------



## The XL 2

At the end of the day, 900K isn't a good number for a national wrestling show.


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> quick, someone play the FUCKING theme of Curb your Enthusiasm
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555294297066446850


----------



## CMPunkRock316

RainmakerV2 said:


> Barely half their demo. But a few certain people can't wait for MNF to start so they can ejaculate over the demo being close again.


Fact is Dynamite beat Raw in the demo before MNF even began last fall despite Raw having a even higher demo last year post Summerslam.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The XL 2 said:


> At the end of the day, 900K isn't a good number for a national wrestling show.


yeah, being number 1 is bad…. They should be…. More number 1

like…. More


----------



## bdon

Mr316 said:


> So they can’t even get half of Raw’s audience…


Let’s see if Raw can maintain 80% of the post-Vince bump.


----------



## .christopher.

The XL 2 said:


> At the end of the day, 900K isn't a good number for a national wrestling show.


Especially when you factor in that they were doing more than that before spending millions on some of the bigger full time names left in wrestling.

Sting gave them a bump. Punk did. Bryan did. AEW just couldn’t get any new fans to stick around despite there being evidence that a few hundred more thousand were willing to give them a chance.


----------



## 3venflow

Why is it so hard to understand that average viewership is, in most cases (like probably 90%+ of shows), going to go down when there are fewer households it's available to? There will be spikes here and there (debuts, special events, fallout shows), but expecting actual viewership growth on a long-term basis is pretty unfair.

AEW is actually up year-on-year in viewers by over 65,000 per show compared to 2021 right now, but you have to mitigate for last year's preemptions there, as it absolutely butchered AEW's yearly average with numbers as low as 462,000 which severely offset their hot spell. This year, due to the TBS move, they were impacted but not nearly as much by the playoffs, which I think is why they're up year-on-year.

In 2012, 80% of U.S. households had cable TV. In 2022, 50% of U.S. households have cable TV... and is in the process of falling below that. Rational thinking and context is a must here, not lazy hot-takes.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

938k is awful, seems like their ratings keep dropping, it is a shame too because this past weeks show was actually decent


----------



## NathanMayberry

Randy Lahey said:


> The WWE-Bots are abnormally feisty today. If you look at long term trends, Raw is sinking in demo about 10-15% a year. That puts them in the 0.35-0.45 range. Some of the stuff around Vince spiked things recently but it wore off and that’s the trend they are moving too.
> 
> Now, let’s just say AEW Dynamite is in the 0.28-0.33 range for next year which is reasonable given how sticky and consistent their audience has been.
> 
> 0.35-0.45 vs 0.28-0.33
> 
> One show isn’t 5x more valuable than the other. And if Dave is right, that AEW doing 0.28-0.33 is too expensive to renew, you best believe Raw is absolutely fucked. Bc NBC Universal/Comcast has already lost 2 billion dollars on Peacock and one of Peacock’s major investments was WWE Network. They ain’t making that mistake again.
> 
> So WWE bots, just chill. The math isn’t in your favor. If you like wwe great. There’s a forum for that. This isn’t it though.
> 
> And if you hate AEW, we’ll your wrestling opinions are pretty shit. It’s like fans of Marvel movies thinking The Godfather sucks.


Your entire post and logic is flawed just based on the fact that they spent a billion dollars on hockey which gets lower ratings than dynamite and is on for way less nights.. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> Why is it so hard to understand that average viewership is, in most cases (like probably 90%+ of shows), going to go down when there are fewer households it's available to? There will be spikes here and there (debuts, special events, fallout shows), but expecting actual viewership growth on a long-term basis is pretty unfair.
> 
> AEW is actually up year-on-year in viewers by over 65,000 per show compared to 2021 right now, but you have to mitigate for last year's preemptions there, as it absolutely butchered AEW's yearly average with numbers as low as 462,000 which severely offset their hot spell. This year, due to the TBS move, they were impacted but not nearly as much by the playoffs, which I think is why they're up year-on-year.
> 
> In 2012, 80% of U.S. households had cable TV. In 2022, 50% of U.S. households have cable TV... and is in the process of falling below that. Rational thinking and context is a must here, not lazy hot-takes.
> 
> View attachment 129598


This reads like the perfect excuse for Raw… it was around in 2012… AEW was not.

When it started there were 2 million people willing to watch wrestling on Wednesday nights.. less than half of that remains today 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The XL 2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah, being number 1 is bad…. They should be…. More number 1
> 
> like…. More


It's still not historically good for a national wrestling program. Wrestling has a historically huge wrestling TV base to draw from, and both WWE and AEW, especially AEW, have done a poor job in getting those people interested in their products.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

900k+ is the new goalpost it seems. 😉


----------



## 3venflow

NathanMayberry said:


> When it started there were 2 million people willing to watch wrestling on Wednesday nights.. less than half of that remains today


Cable is losing viewers yearly, monthly and weekly. Correction, cable is *hemorrhaging *viewers. It is relentless. At this rate, it'll only be the elderly watching it in ten years time, which is why networks tend to prize the shows that attract a young audience so, because they'll go the extra mile to hold on to them.

NXT had a big 50+ crowd who stick with WWE out of brand loyalty, AEW has not managed to grab these and probably never will. They appeal to younger males and do very well among them by any standard, cable or broadcast.

The overwhelmingly majority of shows on cable have lower ratings year on year. It's not an excuse, it's statistical fact. Why should AEW be any different (even though it actually is, but for reasons I stated, I believe last year's preemptions impact the averages a lot). There will be spikes, but nothing is going change the long-term. Better Call Saul just aired one of its most hyped episodes ever, called Breaking Bad, which tied it into one of the most popular shows ever. It did 1.3m viewers with 0.36 in the 18-49. The week before did 1.19m with 0.32 in the 18-49. A spike, an anomaly compared to the season average. In fact, BCS is a great study of cable's general decline based on viewership.

Season 1: 3.21m viewers
Season 2: 2.16m viewers
Season 3: 1.64m viewers
Season 4: 1.49m viewers
Season 5: 1.37m viewers

BCS has been a consistently *outstanding* show throughout its run, yet has lost viewers... I wonder why? Simple, because since it started in 2015, cable has lost a huge chunk of its viewers. There are fewer people to watch it. Since Dynamite started in 2019, cable has also lost a big chunk of its viewers. The week Dynamite started and did 1.4m viewers for its pilot, WWE Smackdown did 3.89m for its premiere on FOX and RAW did 2.59m. Numbers neither company does now either.

AEW may one day pop 1.2m viewers, but that will be an anomaly, not the norm. Just like you shouldn't expect RAW to match what it did on Monday very often.


----------



## Sad Panda

3venflow said:


> Cable is losing viewers yearly, monthly and weekly. Correction, cable is *hemorrhaging *viewers. It is relentless. At this rate, it'll only be the elderly watching it in ten years time, which is why networks tend to prize the shows that attract a young audience so, because they'll go the extra mile to hold on to them.
> 
> NXT had a big 50+ crowd who stick with WWE out of brand loyalty, AEW has not managed to grab these and probably never will. They appeal to younger males and do very well among them by any standard, cable or broadcast.
> 
> The overwhelmingly majority of shows on cable have lower ratings year on year. It's not an excuse, it's statistical fact. Why should AEW be any different (even though it actually is, but for reasons I stated, I believe last year's preemptions impact the averages a lot). There will be spikes, but nothing is going change the long-term. Better Call Saul just aired one of its most hyped episodes ever, called Breaking Bad, which tied it into one of the most popular shows ever. It did 1.3m viewers with 0.36 in the 18-49. The week before did 1.19m with 0.32 in the 18-49. A spike, an anomaly compared to the season average. In fact, BCS is a great study of cable's general decline based on viewership.
> 
> Season 1: 3.21m viewers
> Season 2: 2.16m viewers
> Season 3: 1.64m viewers
> Season 4: 1.49m viewers
> Season 5: 1.37m viewers
> 
> BCS has been a consistently *outstanding* show throughout its run, yet has lost viewers... I wonder why? Simple, because since it started in 2015, cable has lost a huge chunk of its viewers. There are fewer people to watch it. Since Dynamite started in 2019, cable has also lost a big chunk of its viewers. The week Dynamite started and did 1.4m viewers for its pilot, WWE Smackdown did 3.89m for its premiere on FOX and RAW did 2.59m. Numbers neither company does now either.
> 
> AEW may one day pop 1.2m viewers, but that will be an anomaly, not the norm. Just like you shouldn't expect RAW to match what it did on Monday very often.


Thank you for the well written and researched post. Always is a pleasure reading your stuff.


----------



## NathanMayberry

It is important to note that: 

TBS can and does get higher ratings with Big Bang theory reruns, every single week when it gives dynamite a massive lead in. 

Tnt can easily get higher ratings airing a movie than it gets from Rampage on a Friday night. 

Being #1 during the summer dead season when all shows are on break/hiatus is not the selling point y’all seem to think it is.

Dynamite is still averaging less viewers than TBS does on average: U.S.: TBS viewers 2021 | Statista. Tbs has several reruns (which don’t get counted in ratings charts) that consistently get well over a million viewers per episode. 

AEW really has not made a proper case that it deserves a massive increase for its broadcasting rights. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mister Sinister

The news is doing 3-4 million viewers. Wrestling can do the same on a platform like TNT and TBS. If you're in the writing room in WWE or AEW, you have to ask the question, how the fk are we getting beat by Tucker Carlson? That's how dry of a sandpaper handjob wrestling is right now. No story anyone cares about, the characters the fans want are put under or missing (Christian/Wardlow/MJF), no drama, no heat.


----------



## Sad Panda

NathanMayberry said:


> It is important to note that:
> 
> TBS can and does get higher ratings with Big Bang theory reruns, every single week when it gives dynamite a massive lead in.
> 
> Tnt can easily get higher ratings airing a movie than it gets from Rampage on a Friday night.
> 
> Being #1 during the summer dead season when all shows are on break/hiatus is not the selling point y’all seem to think it is.
> 
> Dynamite is still averaging less viewers than TBS does on average: U.S.: TBS viewers 2021 | Statista. Tbs has several reruns (which don’t get counted in ratings charts) that consistently get well over a million viewers per episode.
> 
> AEW really has not made a proper case that it deserves a massive increase for its broadcasting rights.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Interesting. That could indeed hurt AEW when negotiating time comes around for sure


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> Cable is losing viewers yearly, monthly and weekly. Correction, cable is *hemorrhaging *viewers. It is relentless. At this rate, it'll only be the elderly watching it in ten years time, which is why networks tend to prize the shows that attract a young audience so, because they'll go the extra mile to hold on to them.
> 
> NXT had a big 50+ crowd who stick with WWE out of brand loyalty, AEW has not managed to grab these and probably never will. They appeal to younger males and do very well among them by any standard, cable or broadcast.
> 
> The overwhelmingly majority of shows on cable have lower ratings year on year. It's not an excuse, it's statistical fact. Why should AEW be any different (even though it actually is, but for reasons I stated, I believe last year's preemptions impact the averages a lot). There will be spikes, but nothing is going change the long-term. Better Call Saul just aired one of its most hyped episodes ever, called Breaking Bad, which tied it into one of the most popular shows ever. It did 1.3m viewers with 0.36 in the 18-49. The week before did 1.19m with 0.32 in the 18-49. A spike, an anomaly compared to the season average. In fact, BCS is a great study of cable's general decline based on viewership.
> 
> Season 1: 3.21m viewers
> Season 2: 2.16m viewers
> Season 3: 1.64m viewers
> Season 4: 1.49m viewers
> Season 5: 1.37m viewers
> 
> BCS has been a consistently *outstanding* show throughout its run, yet has lost viewers... I wonder why? Simple, because since it started in 2015, cable has lost a huge chunk of its viewers. There are fewer people to watch it. Since Dynamite started in 2019, cable has also lost a big chunk of its viewers. The week Dynamite started and did 1.4m viewers for its pilot, WWE Smackdown did 3.89m for its premiere on FOX and RAW did 2.59m. Numbers neither company does now either.
> 
> AEW may one day pop 1.2m viewers, but that will be an anomaly, not the norm. Just like you shouldn't expect RAW to match what it did on Monday very often.


That Better Caul Saul example doesn’t prove shit other than people prefer watching binge worthy shows via the many streaming platforms available at their own time than at the one single time they can watch it when it airs. When it first started airing, it wasn’t immediately available on demand seconds after, same with Breaking Bad, so you kinda had to watch it then or wait months to stream it on Netflix or download it illegally. 

The massive drop in ratings for better call Saul coincided with it being added to Netflix. There’s a reason why EVERY single scripted show that comes out today can be found in a streaming platform. 

Live sports and wrestling are sold to networks as being immune to that. No one is skipping dynamite episodes so they can binge them all in one sitting. That’s why the “people are watching NXT on the wwe network” excuse didn’t fly when people were using it for nxt’s ratings.

If you want big money from a network you have to demonstrate the ability to creatively deliver not make excuses. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NathanMayberry

Prosper said:


> Says the guy that also ignores how many watch AEW online. You can’t present these arguments only when they suit you.


Why would those at TBS or Warner Media care about these indeterminate amount of people? 

How exactly is this gonna fly in contract renegotiations? 

Tk: “we have a massive number of fans who watch AEW online”

Execs: “oh really? How many are there? And on what? 

Tk: “I’m not really sure but wrestlestreams.cm seems to be slow on Wednesday nights at 8 pm, try it yourself just make sure you use a pop up blocker so you don’t get any porn ads” 

Execs: “umm.. I see how much money do they pay?”

Tk: “nothing, but they post a lot on a wrestling forum” 

Execs: “…”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

NathanMayberry said:


> That Better Caul Saul example doesn’t prove shit other than people prefer watching binge worthy shows via the many streaming platforms available at their own time than at the one single time they can watch it when it airs.


Just like a lot of people will watch RAW, Dynamite and Rampage next day. Never has watching something live been less necessary. Rampage was the most DVR'd show (% of +7 day viewers) of all the wrestling shows as of earlier this year due to its atrocious timeslot.

And BCS isn't the only show that has declined. Virtually everything is down, including live sport for the most part with the occasional exceptions (ie. NBA playoffs opening weekend in 2022). Common sense: when cable is in <50% of households compared to 80% in 2012, and when that trend continues quarter-on-quarter (-2m subs in Q1 2022), do you not see why the majority of shows, including wrestling, will see reduced average viewerships per year?












> Live sports and wrestling are sold to networks as being immune to that. No one is skipping dynamite episodes so they can binge them all in one sitting.


Nielsen only cover live + same-day. What about the many people who will watch next day? You realise AEW Dynamite easily passes a million every week with the +3 and +7 day numbers?



> If you want big money from a network you have to demonstrate the ability to creatively deliver not make excuses.


RAW, Smackdown and Dynamite all deliver for what they cost. They are among the strongest originals on broadcast (Smackdown) and cable (RAW, Dynamite). It's great value for 52 weeks of entertainment. Whether it's deemed value enough by Warner Bros Discovery to warrant a raise in 2024 remains to be seen, due to what is going on. Before the merger, I would've said it was a certainty and analysts said it was massively undervalued, but now it's less certain and they may have to shop for rival bidders. WB are contractually obligated to give AEW a raise if they keep them, but I suppose they could offer $45,000,001 instead of $45,000,000.

Also, since you are against 'excuses' (even when backed by hard facts), won't the +65,000 viewers per episode average in 2022 vs. 2021 impress the network since that is, on paper, swimming against the tide and technically demostrates YoY growth in an industry where the opposite is happening to most shows? (my 'excuse' being Dynamite is only up on average this year because of the preemptions last year)


----------



## Randy Lahey

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The week in tv so far by demo
> 
> View attachment 129595


There must be TV execs trying to come up with a way to get Formula 1 racing in primetime. To do that high of rating at 9am on a Sunday Morning is insane


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The XL 2 said:


> It's still not historically good for a national wrestling program. Wrestling has a historically huge wrestling TV base to draw from, and both WWE and AEW, especially AEW, have done a poor job in getting those people interested in their products.


that is a weird take, cause you basically have no data to draw from in over 20 years

number 1 is number 1

if it was 20 years ago, number 1 would be 6m. Now, its 900k - you can only play the game before you.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Let me preface this with saying I do wish they were getting more total viewers and a higher demo but they have been #1 on cable 7 of the last nine weeks and #2 the other two. I'll let Warner Bros. Discovery be the arbiter of if AEW'S numbers are satisfactory or not.

It is true that summer is the best time for AEW to do well. There is less competition and they do need to maximize their success which must be viewed through the prism of acknowledging the reality of cord cutting. Pro wrestling in general and AEW specifically, isn't essential viewing. People might watch it, but it's not MUST WATCH before anything else kind of television.

I am curious to see where AEW shakes out once Nielsen revises everything by including digital viewing and streaming in 2024.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no, why would it be embarrassing? XD XD
> 
> more people watch a LOT of stuff more than wrestling - AEW and WWE combined. Its only the demo that saves wrestling
> 
> who is BD?
> 
> i don’t think AEW is perfect. Far from it
> 
> i DO think the insane hate it receives is heavily out of balance to the quality it puts out on a regular basis - which will always make me defend something. Not just wrestling, but anything


Sorry I meant DM in Dave Meltzer, was thinking about Bryan Danielson and how bad they treat him while typing. 

And whats the „insane“ hate? People dont like AEW, so what? It is embarrasing seing the blind followers telling us how much it grows, so thats also insane. See the thread after the news that they move to TBS, how they will never be below a million. And see where they were with the hype of BD and Punk and where they are now. Isnt that enough so that people can say the show is in danger? And it will at least cost 45m to keep it, does this fiancé show?

And sorry but the show is not more entertaining thang RAW was on Monday, but that always has been a personal thing. Why cant you accept that people hate the show and tell it? Why is it always „not right to hate AEW“?

All what differentiates you from blind followers like DC is throwing rolling eyes.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Sorry I meant DM in Dave Meltzer, was thinking about Bryan Danielson and how bad they treat him while typing.
> 
> And whats the „insane“ hate? People dont like AEW, so what? It is embarrasing seing the blind followers telling us how much it grows, so thats also insane. See the thread after the news that they move to TBS, how they will never be below a million. And see where they were with the hype of BD and Punk and where they are now. Isnt that enough so that people can say the show is in danger? And it will at least cost 45m to keep it, does this fiancé show?
> 
> And sorry but the show is not more entertaining thang RAW was on Monday, but that always has been a personal thing. Why cant you accept that people hate the show and tell it? Why is it always „not right to hate AEW“?
> 
> All what differentiates you from blind followers like DC is throwing rolling eyes.


lolll, prople can hate it all they want

but if you don’t see there is a continuous need to keep on sharing that hate for no reason - well no, the reason is to troll - then you are blind

we have users admitting that is all they are doing, so you can’t even say i’m wrong, we have users who were banned, just creating alts to do it

I’ll never have a problem with somebody disliking AEW

I’ll always have a problem with people who can’t shut up about it and only come in here 10 times a day to suggest how stupid we all are for enjoying it.

you can decide where you fall in that spectrum xD


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

3venflow said:


> You mean a pilot did better than the norm? That must be a first...
> 
> They've never done a million consistently throughout the year (seven weeks being their max during their hottest spell with all the new debutants). And with the cable audience shrinking every month, it'll only get harder. The only way they may get bigger viewer numbers on a regular basis is if they land a broadcast TV deal or go on a top streaming platform.
> 
> These are their yearly average viewers, which doesn't mitigate for several things (such as preemptions during the playoffs and competition), but they're still up year-on-year in that metric.
> 
> 2019: 903,333
> 2020: 810,755
> 2021: 891,810
> 2022*: 957,000


I mean they have so many added bonuses this year bragging about 2022 having higher ratings isn't that impressive. 2019- early 2021 they had to compete with NXT, now they don't. 2020-some of 2021 they were hurt by being stuck in Daily's Place with a limited audience that everyone here cited as a bad thing for ratings. Now they're in a new town every week with full crowds. They have more starpower now and more brand recognition having been around longer than they were in 2019-2021.

Adding guys like Punk (returning to wrestling after a 7 year absence), Cole and Danielson to a roster that already had Jericho, Moxley, Sting, Christian Cage, Jeff Hardy for awhile, and homegrown and non WWE stars like Omega, MJF, the Young Bucks, Hangman, etc you'd expect considerably higher ratings not just mildly better. 

Last year there was no Punk, Cole or Danielson yet 2021 had better ratings and a better demo number. With a big increase in talent contracts I assume TK isn't happy with consistent Yoy drops even with no pandemic or NXT competition.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Randy Lahey said:


> Consistent demo number. Dynamite’s core is 0.32-0.35 which they should be able to stay at.
> 
> By next year that’s where Raw will be too so it’s important for Dynamite to simply not lose their base.


So you'd rather wait Raw's ratings to drop to match Dynamite's rating rather than let Dynamite grow to match Raw's current rating? That's just sad.


----------



## IronMan8

This might sound simple, but I just realised how true this is

Today's ratings are constantly framed in context of what they used to be. The implication being that today's product is worse and therefore less people are watching. But here's the thing...

Nobody had anything to do back then.

People just put on the TV and flipped between a couple of channels - whatever was on - and that's about it. It was a simpler time. A cliffhanger or a shocking story or two were more effective tools in that market. But of course, those past viewers were never fans, they don't reflect the quality of the product today, and probably aren't even a tiny chance to ever be attracted to watching wrestling again today.

I don't know why, but I never realised just how illogical the whole comparison thing is

Anyway, carry on


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lolll, prople can hate it all they want
> 
> but if you don’t see there is a continuous need to keep on sharing that hate for no reason - well no, the reason is to troll - then you are blind
> 
> we have users admitting that is all they are doing, so you can’t even say i’m wrong, we have users who were banned, just creating alts to do it
> 
> I’ll never have a problem with somebody disliking AEW
> 
> I’ll always have a problem with people who can’t shut up about it and only come in here 10 times a day to suggest how stupid we all are for enjoying it.
> 
> you can decide where you fall in that spectrum xD


And who from the ones disliking on the last 4 pages falls under your description? From my view actually no one. The likes you described are gone, so the ones disliking now usually have a reason for that and thats not trolling or blind hate.

And you accepting AEW haters but in the next sentence dont want them to express their feelings. Is that something South African?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> And who from the ones disliking on the last 4 pages falls under your description? From my view actually no one. The likes you described are gone, so the ones disliking now usually have a reason for that and thats not trolling or blind hate.
> 
> And you accepting AEW haters but in the next sentence dont want them to express their feelings. Is that something South African?


yes, we believe in bottling our feelings up


----------



## IronMan8

fabi1982 said:


> And who from the ones disliking on the last 4 pages falls under your description? From my view actually no one. The likes you described are gone, so the ones disliking now usually have a reason for that and thats not trolling or blind hate.
> 
> And you accepting AEW haters but in the next sentence dont want them to express their feelings. Is that something South African?


Um, the intention to troll by several users in here is... an obvious fact. Lol. Also, the sky is blue.

I try to skim past and accept their posts in the trolling spirit they're intended for the most part, but sometimes it clutters up the board too much so it becomes a deterrence for fans who want good faith AEW talk.

You probably haven't noticed it because you assume posters are dumber than they really are... right?

If you think of posters as people with an actual brain, I guarantee you'll suddenly notice how obvious the trolling is lol

Also, people who watch wrestling are probably predisposed to being the best at trolling on the internet if you think about it


----------



## Chip Chipperson

fabi1982 said:


> Sorry I meant DM in Dave Meltzer, was thinking about Bryan Danielson and how bad they treat him while typing.
> 
> And whats the „insane“ hate? People dont like AEW, so what? It is embarrasing seing the blind followers telling us how much it grows, so thats also insane. See the thread after the news that they move to TBS, how they will never be below a million. And see where they were with the hype of BD and Punk and where they are now. Isnt that enough so that people can say the show is in danger? And it will at least cost 45m to keep it, does this fiancé show?
> 
> And sorry but the show is not more entertaining thang RAW was on Monday, but that always has been a personal thing. Why cant you accept that people hate the show and tell it? Why is it always „not right to hate AEW“?
> 
> All what differentiates you from blind followers like DC is throwing rolling eyes.


The blind followers that get offended relate to Tony, he most likely is just like them and would book a wrestling show just like they would therefore they don't understand how anyone could dislike it and are passionate about it.

I could see Tony Khan on here if he wasn't a billionaire and the owner of AEW hating on the AEW "haters" and making personal attacks.


----------



## fabi1982

IronMan8 said:


> Um, the intention to troll by several users in here is... an obvious fact. Lol. Also, the sky is blue.
> 
> I try to skim past and accept their posts in the trolling spirit they're intended for the most part, but sometimes it clutters up the board too much so it becomes a deterrence for fans who want good faith AEW talk.
> 
> You probably haven't noticed it because you assume posters are dumber than they really are... right?
> 
> If you think of posters as people with an actual brain, I guarantee you'll suddenly notice how obvious the trolling is lol
> 
> Also, people who watch wrestling are probably predisposed to being the best at trolling on the internet if you think about it


Then again please show me examples? Everyone I see on the last couple pages (especially in reation to this weeks rating) make valid points or just laugh about the rating but no one is trolling.

Even though Meltzer is crap even he realizes thst AEW is in danger, nothing else does anyone on the last couple pages were saying over the last year. 

Mentioning the non existent increase in viewers/demo with Punk/BD/Cole coming in.
TNT dropping them for hockey.
The anticipated increase in viewers with the move to TBS which didnt happen.
Moving goalposts with every month they are unable to get 1m viewers or any kind of demo above .4 (something which was said to be the norm not too long ago).
So then „we“ are the trolls bringing that up? Parading the 6 out of 7 weeks no.1 around in a time where there is no competition is laughable. Like every week the TBBT rerun is getting more viewers, thats why the first quarter mostly being the best.

So why is it not ok to bring all that up? The thing is „we“ are worried that there is just WWE in two years time because TK thinks he wants a billion dollar as well and no one willing to pay that.

And this is not the „the show was good“ thread, this is the ratings thread and funnily enough it seems not to be ok to discuss ratings in here.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yes, we believe in bottling our feelings up


Good for you. Try to breeze in a plastic bag once in a while when the pressure is too high 😘


----------



## .christopher.

IronMan8 said:


> This might sound simple, but I just realised how true this is
> 
> Today's ratings are constantly framed in context of what they used to be. The implication being that today's product is worse and therefore less people are watching. But here's the thing...
> 
> Nobody had anything to do back then.
> 
> People just put on the TV and flipped between a couple of channels - whatever was on - and that's about it. It was a simpler time. A cliffhanger or a shocking story or two were more effective tools in that market. But of course, those past viewers were never fans, they don't reflect the quality of the product today, and probably aren't even a tiny chance to ever be attracted to watching wrestling again today.
> 
> I don't know why, but I never realised just how illogical the whole comparison thing is
> 
> Anyway, carry on


"Back then"... RAW was getting 4-5m viewers a few years ago lol


----------



## IronMan8

fabi1982 said:


> Then again please show me examples? Everyone I see on the last couple pages (especially in reation to this weeks rating) make valid points or just laugh about the rating but no one is trolling.
> 
> Even though Meltzer is crap even he realizes thst AEW is in danger, nothing else does anyone on the last couple pages were saying over the last year.
> 
> Mentioning the non existent increase in viewers/demo with Punk/BD/Cole coming in.
> TNT dropping them for hockey.
> The anticipated increase in viewers with the move to TBS which didnt happen.
> Moving goalposts with every month they are unable to get 1m viewers or any kind of demo above .4 (something which was said to be the norm not too long ago).
> So then „we“ are the trolls bringing that up? Parading the 6 out of 7 weeks no.1 around in a time where there is no competition is laughable. Like every week the TBBT rerun is getting more viewers, thats why the first quarter mostly being the best.
> 
> So why is it not ok to bring all that up? The thing is „we“ are worried that there is just WWE in two years time because TK thinks he wants a billion dollar as well and no one willing to pay that.
> 
> And this is not the „the show was good“ thread, this is the ratings thread and funnily enough it seems not to be ok to discuss ratings in here.


Why are you using weird "quotation" marks?

Are you a bot?


----------



## fabi1982

IronMan8 said:


> Why are you using weird "quotation" marks?
> 
> Are you a bot?


Cool thats what you took from that, that I quotet we? I do that all the time because I dont think that those with the opinion that AEW is not all roses and sugar cupcakes has to be classified as a "we" but "you" diehards created this "if they are not with us they are against us" trope.

But hey I guess you agree with me, if this is all you come back with.

Beep Boop Beep Klonk


----------



## IronMan8

.christopher. said:


> "Back then"... RAW was getting 4-5m viewers a few years ago lol


The comparisons I'm talking about are from the late 90's, but even with your interpretation, you're still going "back" to an era where you're talking about old male viewers who still hadn't figured out how to use this weird new thing called Netflix and hadn't yet realised there was anything else to do

Now? Compared to even 10 years ago?

There's a million things for people to do _whenever they choose _

Even the rise of DVR means people are watching stuff they would've missed that week instead of just watching whatever happens to be on live. There's many reasons for it but the basic point is true:

Back then, people had nothing to do

They used to be 100% passive / reactive to what's on

Now they're closed to 100% active / proactive about what they do in their spare time 

I've always know this, but it kind of just clicked at how much it applies to comparing ratings across the passive vs active eras of entertainment


----------



## IronMan8

fabi1982 said:


> Cool thats what you took from that, that I quotet we? I do that all the time because I dont think that those with the opinion that AEW is not all roses and sugar cupcakes has to be classified as a "we" but "you" diehards created this "if they are not with us they are against us" trope.
> 
> But hey I guess you agree with me, if this is all you come back with.
> 
> Beep Boop Beep Klonk


Sugar cupcakes.

Are you an ad?

Kidding 

I would love to discuss AEW's flaws on here, and I'm certainly not into gatekeeping. I used to just watch WWE and didn't really get into AEW until the Hangman story took off. So personally, I don't like to group people into categories of us vs them, as I've floated across that category myself. To me, AEW's product is just way better right now.

To answer your questions, no I didn't place you in the troll category, yes it's perfectly fine to criticise AEW, and yeah I know this isn't "the show is good" thread and that's not my expectation.

My sole purpose in quoting your post was to point out that the sky is indeed blue. You've responded by requesting evidence of trolling from the last couple of pages of this particular thread. Is that a great way to prove trolls exist on these boards?

Plus, it's very easy to be disingenuous when you're trolling on a stats topic. Think about it - you could just play dumb and make bad faith arguments with numbers and wait for people to prove you wrong. It'd be the easiest way to troll ever. Hence I let them do their thing and won't get into the game of mass quoting people over it lol


----------



## fabi1982

IronMan8 said:


> Sugar cupcakes.
> 
> Are you an ad?
> 
> Kidding
> 
> I would love to discuss AEW's flaws on here, and I'm certainly not into gatekeeping. I used to just watch WWE and didn't really get into AEW until the Hangman story took off. So personally, I don't like to group people into categories of us vs them, as I've floated across that category myself. To me, AEW's product is just way better right now.
> 
> To answer your questions, no I didn't place you in the troll category, yes it's perfectly fine to criticise AEW, and yeah I know this isn't "the show is good" thread and that's not my expectation.
> 
> My sole purpose in quoting your post was to point out that the sky is indeed blue. You've responded by requesting evidence of trolling from the last couple of pages of this particular thread. Is that a great way to prove trolls exist on these boards?
> 
> Plus, it's very easy to be disingenuous when you're trolling on a stats topic. Think about it - you could just play dumb and make bad faith arguments with numbers and wait for people to prove you wrong. It'd be the easiest way to troll ever. Hence I let them do their thing and won't get into the game of mass quoting people over it lol


I was actually just talking about this thread, because you made the comment in that thread. Of course there are trolls in the AEW section, hell even in the ratings thread. But most of the not so positive comments mostly come from people who are not trolling.

But I get your points, still dont see poeple make bad faith arguments with numbers alot, but I do not follow discussions in here closely, just when I see @LifeInCattleClass quoting people or rolling eyes being thrown around 

And yeah I am an ad, you handsome thing. I would love for you to try me...for just 5.99 at your local shop.


----------



## Kishido

Cable is down for everyone bar WWE! Understand that! They are still the demo gods and Numero 1. It just needs one new ex WWE star to get over 1 million again


----------



## DammitChrist

Kishido said:


> Cable is down for everyone bar WWE! Understand that! They are still the demo gods and Numero 1. It just needs one new ex WWE star to get over 1 million again


Being #1 on cable 6 times out of the past 7 weeks isn’t something to no-sell here at all, especially during a time where there’s even less of it in households nowadays.


----------



## Kishido

DammitChrist said:


> Being #1 on cable 6 times out of the past 7 weeks isn’t something to no-sell here at all, especially during a time where there’s even less of it in households nowadays.


Yes AEW will be above 1,2 million after all people come back


----------



## Randy Lahey

I got all the bots on ignore, so I’m going to just post plain facts: 

Raw’s lost almost 50% of their own demo since AEW debuted in 2019. In Fall of 2019 they averaged around a 0.75 during NFL season. This fall they will be around 0.45 or lower.

You know how much demo AEW has lost since they debut’ed in Fall 2019? 0! Basically nothing. They averaged around 0.33 three years ago during Fall 2019. That’s near where they are still despite Cable homes drying up. 

So all you WWE bots, save the AEW is dying trope. TNT paid to get a 0.35. They are still getting that. USA paid for a 1.0+ in 2017, and they get a 0.45 if lucky today.

Who again is in trouble? I don’t see your concern trolling for Raw’s tanking ratings?

One company gets paid 20% of the other, and their ratings are consistent since signing the deal.

Another company gets paid 5x, their ratings drop by nearly 50%, so again what network is disappointed?

Go concern troll the Raw ratings thread


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> You can sign Austin, Rock, Hogan, and Cena, and you’re still not getting bigger numbers than WWE right now. You just aren’t.
> 
> Disney is a shitty theme park, but they still outsell every other theme park. Children hear amusement park, and they think DisneyWorld.
> 
> Y’all used to fucking laugh at the comment that Howard Stern thought AEW was WWE, but now you’re pretending that isn’t a part of the adversity AEW faces? Why doesn’t anyone topple Coca-Cola? Why hasn’t my local burger joint topped McDonald’s? Why is Church’s Chicken not doing more business than KFC? Why is it that every time an expansion team debuts in the NBA or NFL, they are the laughing stock of the league?


Yet Sony and Microsoft surpassed Nintendo, despite coming after them. If you have a product folk want they will flock to it. Fact of the matter is folk just aren't that impressed with AEW and Kenny Omega.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Randy Lahey said:


> I got all the bots on ignore


Imagine being unable to handle a different opinion this badly.


----------



## IronMan8

I'm not familiar with USA's total cable decline, but to try and clarify I found 84m in 2019 dropping to 70m in 2021/2, which represents a 20% decline in total cable subscribers. But not all cable subscribers get the channels AEW is on, correct? 

Does someone know the exact figure for AEW's viewership as a percentage of their TV station's total subscribers?

E.g. 2019: 700,000 average / 50m subscribers
etc


----------



## Fearless Viper

Randy Lahey said:


> I got all the bots on ignore, so I’m going to just post plain facts:
> 
> Raw’s lost almost 50% of their own demo since AEW debuted in 2019. In Fall of 2019 they averaged around a 0.75 during NFL season. This fall they will be around 0.45 or lower.
> 
> You know how much demo AEW has lost since they debut’ed in Fall 2019? 0! Basically nothing. They averaged around 0.33 three years ago during Fall 2019. That’s near where they are still despite Cable homes drying up.
> 
> So all you WWE bots, save the AEW is dying trope. TNT paid to get a 0.35. They are still getting that. USA paid for a 1.0+ in 2017, and they get a 0.45 if lucky today.
> 
> Who again is in trouble? I don’t see your concern trolling for Raw’s tanking ratings?
> 
> One company gets paid 20% of the other, and their ratings are consistent since signing the deal.
> 
> Another company gets paid 5x, their ratings drop by nearly 50%, so again what network is disappointed?
> 
> Go concern troll the Raw ratings thread


So this is Tony Khan's WF account.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> I got all the bots on ignore, so I’m going to just post plain facts:
> 
> Raw’s lost almost 50% of their own demo since AEW debuted in 2019. In Fall of 2019 they averaged around a 0.75 during NFL season. This fall they will be around 0.45 or lower.
> 
> You know how much demo AEW has lost since they debut’ed in Fall 2019? 0! Basically nothing. They averaged around 0.33 three years ago during Fall 2019. That’s near where they are still despite Cable homes drying up.
> 
> So all you WWE bots, save the AEW is dying trope. TNT paid to get a 0.35. They are still getting that. USA paid for a 1.0+ in 2017, and they get a 0.45 if lucky today.
> 
> Who again is in trouble? I don’t see your concern trolling for Raw’s tanking ratings?
> 
> One company gets paid 20% of the other, and their ratings are consistent since signing the deal.
> 
> Another company gets paid 5x, their ratings drop by nearly 50%, so again what network is disappointed?
> 
> Go concern troll the Raw ratings thread



So you just ignore anyone who points out how wrong you are lol.


Hey still waiting for 2.0s cancelation. Lemme start brewing some coffee.


----------



## fabi1982

Randy Lahey said:


> I got all the bots on ignore, so I’m going to just post plain facts:
> 
> Raw’s lost almost 50% of their own demo since AEW debuted in 2019. In Fall of 2019 they averaged around a 0.75 during NFL season. This fall they will be around 0.45 or lower.
> 
> You know how much demo AEW has lost since they debut’ed in Fall 2019? 0! Basically nothing. They averaged around 0.33 three years ago during Fall 2019. That’s near where they are still despite Cable homes drying up.
> 
> So all you WWE bots, save the AEW is dying trope. TNT paid to get a 0.35. They are still getting that. USA paid for a 1.0+ in 2017, and they get a 0.45 if lucky today.
> 
> Who again is in trouble? I don’t see your concern trolling for Raw’s tanking ratings?
> 
> One company gets paid 20% of the other, and their ratings are consistent since signing the deal.
> 
> Another company gets paid 5x, their ratings drop by nearly 50%, so again what network is disappointed?
> 
> Go concern troll the Raw ratings thread


You really are a clueless person.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Yet Sony and Microsoft surpassed Nintendo, despite coming after them. If you have a product folk want they will flock to it. Fact of the matter is folk just aren't that impressed with AEW and Kenny Omega.


in 3 years bruv?


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> in 3 years bruv?


Aye I enjoy AEW, but just like WWE they aren't doing much to inspire the masses to watch them. 

If you were talking about the video game shit, Sony came in the game and the PlayStation beat the fuck out of The Nintendo 64 and Sega Saturn. Then The PS2 and Xbox outsold the GameCube


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Aye I enjoy AEW, but just like WWE they aren't doing much to inspire the masses to watch them.
> 
> If you were talking about the video game shit, Sony came in the game and the PlayStation beat the fuck out of The Nintendo 64 and Sega Saturn. Then The PS2 and Xbox outsold the GameCube


i’m talking games

you are overestimating the sales of ps1, xbox 1 and underestimating Nintendo

it took some time - more than 3 years - Nintendo’s handheld market alone kept them well in the game

it will take AEW time too



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles



on the flip side, there’s way more examples of something coming after hot unseating the biggest marketshare rival


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’m talking games
> 
> you are overestimating the sales of ps1, xbox 1 and underestimating Nintendo
> 
> it took some time - more than 3 years - Nintendo’s handheld market alone kept them well in the game
> 
> it will take AEW time too
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles
> 
> 
> 
> on the flip side, there’s way more examples of something coming after hot unseating the biggest marketshare rival


This why you the homie lol you pulled out a super technicality . 

Microsoft doesn't have a handheld line and Sony didn't have one until right before the PlayStation 3. When it comes to home consoles the Nintendo 64 lost out to the PS1 and the GameCube lost out to the PS2 and Xbox. 

Bruh really hit me with a "but actually when you add the Gameboy". You goated for that response lol.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> This why you the homie lol you pulled out a super technicality .
> 
> Microsoft doesn't have a handheld line and Sony didn't have one until right before the PlayStation 3. When it comes to home consoles the Nintendo 64 lost out to the PS1 and the GameCube lost out to the PS2 and Xbox.
> 
> Bruh really hit me with a "but actually when you add the Gameboy". You goated for that response lol.


haha! Mate, you know me squirming on some stats shit xD


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> haha! Mate, you know me squirming on some stats shit xD


Can't even hate on it lol


----------



## Aedubya

Great job


----------



## TD Stinger

It's almost become boring to talk about AEW ratings. Like, every week now you know they're gonna do like 930k and a .31-.33 in the Demo. And they're either gonna be #1 in the ratings or #2.

To me the recent trend of wrestling ratings just shows how much cable is down across the board. NXT this week did a .15 in the Demo which isn't amazing but were #7 for the night. Raw & SD usually dominate their nights. Point being while ratings have gone down across the board, wrestling has mostly thrived throughout the summer.

The real test is when the Fall comes and Raw has to compete with MNF, NXT & AEW have to compete with the NBA, SD & Rampage will have college football, and of course the return of new seasons of shows. So for now I don't really get that worked up one way or another over ratings.


----------



## Mister Sinister

I'm sick of reading the claim that they are number one in ratings with 900k viewers. There are shows stomping their face into the ground every week with three and four times their viewership. Ordering the ratings based on demos does not make you the most viewed show of the night.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mister Sinister said:


> I'm sick of reading the claim that they are number one in ratings with 900k viewers. There are shows stomping their face into the ground every week with three and four times their viewership. Ordering the ratings based on demos does not make you the most viewed show of the night.


same with the fed bruv

Tucker Carlson and The five usually push their shit it - but lucky for them and lucky for AEW, the rankings are based on demo, sooooo….🤷‍♂️


----------



## 3venflow

If the rankings weren't based on demos, I doubt even WWE would have finished #1 in umpteen number of years. Smackdown would rank close to the bottom of broadcast every week, instead of being touted as the number one show on TV on Fridays. Between FOX, ABC, NBC and CBS last Friday, Smackdown finished sixth out of eight shows in P2+, but first in P18-49. Accept the fact that the 18-49 demo is the default and industry standard for ranking shows now. TBS don't issue press releases about Dynamite being first on cable for the lulz.


----------



## Geeee

TD Stinger said:


> It's almost become boring to talk about AEW ratings. Like, every week now you know they're gonna do like 930k and a .31-.33 in the Demo. And they're either gonna be #1 in the ratings or #2.
> 
> To me the recent trend of wrestling ratings just shows how much cable is down across the board. NXT this week did a .15 in the Demo which isn't amazing but were #7 for the night. Raw & SD usually dominate their nights. Point being while ratings have gone down across the board, wrestling has mostly thrived throughout the summer.
> 
> The real test is when the Fall comes and Raw has to compete with MNF, NXT & AEW have to compete with the NBA, SD & Rampage will have college football, and of course the return of new seasons of shows. So for now I don't really get that worked up one way or another over ratings.


Right even Rampage which does awful ratings regularly finishes like 12th or something


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Yet Sony and Microsoft surpassed Nintendo, despite coming after them. If you have a product folk want they will flock to it. Fact of the matter is folk just aren't that impressed with AEW and Kenny Omega.


Sony dropped the Platstation a year before Nintendo 64. What would happen if WWE just stopped making content for 7 fucking years..? Think someone couldn’t come in and steal their market share?

This is not apples to apples, bro.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Sony dropped the Platstation a year before Nintendo 64. What would happen if WWE just stopped making content for 7 fucking years..? Think someone couldn’t come in and steal their market share?
> 
> This is not apples to apples, bro.


But it was still the same console generation and Nintendo and Sega in theory should've had a devoted loyal fan base that wouldn't leave them you know.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Aye I enjoy AEW, but just like WWE they aren't doing much to inspire the masses to watch them.
> 
> If you were talking about the video game shit, Sony came in the game and the PlayStation beat the fuck out of The Nintendo 64 and Sega Saturn. Then The PS2 and Xbox outsold the GameCube


Sega really fucked up that launch. They randomly drop the Sega Saturn without releasing any details for when it would drop. Like…you just woke up and they’d started selling them.

Nintendo 64 dropped their next gen console a full year after Sony had released the PlayStation, so again, the First Mover’s Advantage for next-gen console gaming was won by Sony, which would be akin to AEW and WWE stopping for a few years, then it becoming a race to see who delivered a TV product first.

First Mover’s Advantage is a very real fucking thing. It’s amazing that some are acting like it isn’t.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> But it was still the same console generation and Nintendo and Sega in theory should've had a devoted loyal fan base that wouldn't leave them you know.


SONY BEAT THEM TO THE PUNCH BY RELEASING THEIR SYSTEM FIRST!!!!!

How are you not fucking understanding that you are proving The First Mover’s Advantage works?


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> SONY BEAT THEM TO THE PUNCH BY RELEASING THEIR SYSTEM FIRST!!!!!
> 
> How are you not fucking understanding that you are proving The First Mover’s Advantage works?


How do you not get that Nintendo already existed in the market. You're trying to argue "oh you can't beat first movers advantage". Yet the fact that 2 different companies started game consoles after Nintendo and Sega and ended up surpassing them in home consoles proves your point is fucking moot. Hell the fact that WWE which started after your precious NWA was formed yet put that shit in the ground proves you wrong. If AEW had an undeniable product people would watch it regardless of WWE being good or bad. The reality is AEW isn't wowing the public accept.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Aye I enjoy AEW, but just like WWE they aren't doing much to inspire the masses to watch them.
> 
> If you were talking about the video game shit, Sony came in the game and the PlayStation beat the fuck out of The Nintendo 64 and Sega Saturn. Then The PS2 and Xbox outsold the GameCube


I mean real shit what can any wrestling company do to inspire masses and masses to watch? You can book the best storyline of all time and nothing would change honestly. Video games are a different beast.


----------



## 3venflow

I think a ROH TV or streaming deal may be coming soon for Tony Khan. ROH have today signed the Boys (Tate Twins) after the Briscoes, Dalton Castle, Kaun, Toa Liona, Josh Woods, Anthony Henry and Blake Christian to tiered deals. I mean, surely something must be in the making if he's bothering to do that, or else you're just signing them for bi-monthly PPVs and the occasional AEW/AEW Dark appearance. Which you could just bring them in as freelancers for like they have done with so many.

If ROH is getting a deal is it on a Warner platform? If so, then it bodes well for AEW's long-term future in the WBD family. There's also this All Elite Women thing they've filed trademarks for, which Meltzer thinks will be a reality show. Again, if they're doing that then you'd expect some sort of TV deal for that concept is in the bag.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> I mean real shit what can any wrestling company do to inspire masses and masses to watch? You can book the best storyline of all time and nothing would change honestly. Video games are a different beast.


I think of it like this, people simple as hell. Least here in the US lol. The fucking crate challenge had a moment. So if that stupid shit can capture the public's imagination I can't imagine that wrestling could never be the talk of the town again.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I think of it like this, people simple as hell. Least here in the US lol. The fucking crate challenge had a moment. So if that stupid shit can capture the public's imagination I can't imagine that wrestling could never be the talk of the town again.


legit…. Like legit legit

the only way wrestling becomes the ‘talk of the town’

is with Orange Cassidy or Danhausen

And i am not even fucking joking


----------



## 3venflow

Meltzer didn't have the Dynamite QHs in time for the Observer on Friday and I don't have a sub to Thurston's Patreon, but I found some notes.


AEW’s peak for overall viewership took place during their first quarter (OC vs. Lethal).
AEW’s peak for overall key demographic viewership took place during the Jay Lethal and Wardlow angle and The Undisputed Elite’s promo & Young Bucks ambush attack segment.
The Dumpster match between The Gunn Club and The Acclaimed drew the peak viewership for several of AEW’s key demographic viewership groups.

The last bullet point makes me want to see the full QHs more as the dumpster match was thrown in the usual women's 'death slot'.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Fearless Viper said:


> So you'd rather wait Raw's ratings to drop to match Dynamite's rating rather than let Dynamite grow to match Raw's current rating? That's just sad.


He's the same guy who predicted that RAW would get no TV deal whatsoever a couple of years ago; and we all know what happened there (best wrestling TV contract EVER, which is gonna happen again soon enough). So, I wouldn't put any stock in what he has to say.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> legit…. Like legit legit
> 
> the only way wrestling becomes the ‘talk of the town’
> 
> is with Orange Cassidy or Danhausen
> 
> And i am not even fucking joking


You probably ain't far off lol, gotta meme folk back into wrestling


----------



## DammitChrist

3venflow said:


> Meltzer didn't have the Dynamite QHs in time for the Observer on Friday and I don't have a sub to Thurston's Patreon, but I found some notes.
> 
> 
> AEW’s peak for overall viewership took place during their first quarter (OC vs. Lethal).
> AEW’s peak for overall key demographic viewership took place during the Jay Lethal and Wardlow angle and The Undisputed Elite’s promo & Young Bucks ambush attack segment.
> The Dumpster match between The Gunn Club and The Acclaimed drew the peak viewership for several of AEW’s key demographic viewership groups.
> 
> The last bullet point makes me want to see the full QHs more as the dumpster match was thrown in the usual women's 'death slot'.


Adam Page, Undisputed Elite, and the Young Bucks being really over with the younger audience confirmed.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> How do you not get that Nintendo already existed in the market. You're trying to argue "oh you can't beat first movers advantage". Yet the fact that 2 different companies started game consoles after Nintendo and Sega and ended up surpassing them in home consoles proves your point is fucking moot. Hell the fact that WWE which started after your precious NWA was formed yet put that shit in the ground proves you wrong. If AEW had an undeniable product people would watch it regardless of WWE being good or bad. The reality is AEW isn't wowing the public accept.


AND SONY BEAT THEM TO NEXT-GEN! WHAT ABOUT THIS DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND!?

The WWE was also the FIRST to offer wrestling on television to the entire country thanks to cable tv. The territories, NWA, JCP, did not offer this until a few years later.

FIRST…MOVER’S…ADVANTAGE


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> AND SONY BEAT THEM TO NEXT-GEN! WHAT ABOUT THIS DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND!?
> 
> The WWE was also the FIRST to offer wrestling on television to the entire country thanks to cable tv. The territories, NWA, JCP, did not offer this until a few years later.
> 
> FIRST…MOVER’S…ADVANTAGE


But according to your logic Nintendo existed first and had the brand loyalty from a decade prior. According to your silly ass logic folk should've saw the PlayStation and gone

"What the fuck is this new shit, we don't like new shit we're loyal to Nintendo".


----------



## bdon

__





Loading…






en.m.wikipedia.org





















What is First Mover Advantage and How Does It Work? | Glossary


A first-mover advantage allows a company to gain the upper hand over its competitors by being the first to market a new product or service.




chisellabs.com


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> But according to your logic Nintendo existed first and had the brand loyalty from a decade prior. According to your silly ass logic folk should've saw the PlayStation and gone
> 
> "What the fuck is this new shit, we don't like new shit we're loyal to Nintendo".


No, because they won the race to next-gen. The video game world is and has always been a race to next-gen.

Do you really fucking not believe in something as widely accepted as First Mover’s Advantage!?


----------



## zkorejo

bdon said:


> No, because they won the race to next-gen. The video game world is and has always been a race to next-gen.
> 
> Do you really fucking not believe in something as widely accepted as First Mover’s Advantage!?


That's what helped Microsoft win a big market with Xbox 360. Sony was sleeping and were overconfident. MS came in with a good product and at a much lesser price and alot earlier.

Edit: I'm talking about Xbox 360/PS3 era. Xbox fucked up the next time though. Which furthers the point of bdon that in gaming, the race to the next gen along with factors such as pricing, value for money, launch games and hardware specs matter alot. 

Majority gamers have no loyalty to any brand. They are smart and buy whatever is a better value for their money.

Wrestling fans are marks for a company, while they should be marks for wrestling. It doesn't serve anyone well when you mark for a company.


----------



## bdon

The First Mover’s Advantage does not guarantee success, but it makes it incredibly difficult to lose that share of the market. Especially when you have the funding and marketing to maintain that air of being #1.

Vince Sr having the New York territory all but guaranteed their success. Ted Turner owning a segment of the entire medium nearly pulled off the heist, but as is always the case, the minute WWE done anything remotely cool, everyone ran straight back over there.

It’s fun to cheer the winners for most people.


----------



## bdon

zkorejo said:


> That's what helped Microsoft win a big market with Xbox 360. Sony was sleeping and were overconfident. MS came in with a good product and at a much lesser price and alot earlier.
> 
> Edit: I'm talking about Xbox 360/PS3 era. Xbox fucked up the next time though.


Yep


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> No, because they won the race to next-gen. The video game world is and has always been a race to next-gen.
> 
> Do you really fucking not believe in something as widely accepted as First Mover’s Advantage!?


And yet the fucking Wii outsold the 360 which came first 7th generation wise and outsold the PlayStation 3. This is despite the Wii being the last console to release and it being underpowered compared to the 360 and PS3. It's almost like if you release a product people want, they'll fucking buy it or watch it.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> And yet the fucking Wii outsold the 360 which came first 7th generation wise and outsold the PlayStation 3. This is despite the Wii being the last console to release and it being underpowered compared to the 360 and PS3. It's almost like if you release a product people want, they'll fucking buy it or watch it.


First: The Wii didn’t attempt to compete with 360 and PS3. We know this, because they were priced a full $150 less and as you said, underpowered. They were marketing themselves to a different segment of the market: the budget consumers.

Secondly, you don’t believe in First Mover’s Advantage…? Got it. I won’t respond to you any further on this topic, Rap.


----------



## zkorejo

RapShepard said:


> And yet the fucking Wii outsold the 360 which came first 7th generation wise and outsold the PlayStation 3. This is despite the Wii being the last console to release and it being underpowered compared to the 360 and PS3. It's almost like if you release a product people want, they'll fucking buy it or watch it.


You're right too, but to be fair, Wii was a new thing with it's motion sensor tech. Also helps Nintendo games are exclusives and are big titles that people grew up with. It's a gaming console at the end of the day but it's so different than Xbox/playstation games and it's much cheaper.

Different industries and different markets. I really don't think the two compare.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> So, you don’t believe in First Mover’s Advantage. Got it. I won’t respond to you any further on this topic, Rap.


I'll extend you this because you the forum homie and an excellent shit talker. You debate and talk shit like my favorite real life family members lol. 

1. I can definitely fucking agree with you that being around before a competitor is an advantage. Like obviously being able to establish yourself first helps and shit. I'm not dumb enough to argue being around first doesn't help the WWE. 

2. Now I do hard disagree at the idea that coming after just means there's no way you can compete evenly or even surpass the product that came before. I'm not saying that shits easy to do, just it can be done if you got a dope product. Because business wise we can point to businesses that got surpassed by a competitor they predated


----------



## bdon

Actually, one last thought, the Wii is an example of why AEW should have stayed the course and not try to start doing more sports entertainment BS that has caused them to lose momentum over the last 9 months. Don’t try to compete with WWE. Offer something different, which they were. Then they started trying to steal the WWE’s market share vs growing the market they had, which is something many have asked of them since the beginning.

I don’t want a WWE-like product at all. Not even if just it’s just “some weeks”.


----------



## RapShepard

zkorejo said:


> You're right too, but to be fair, Wii was a new thing with it's motion sensor tech. Also helps Nintendo games are exclusives and are big titles that people grew up with. It's a gaming console at the end of the day but it's so different than Xbox/playstation games and it's much cheaper.
> 
> Different industries and different markets. I really don't think the two compare.


I don't disagree with anything you said, my post above explains it more. But my point was just you can beat something that had a headstart. @bdon just a debate and shit talking champ so I wasn't elaborating as good as I should have


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> I'll extend you this because you the forum homie and an excellent shit talker. You debate and talk shit like my favorite real life family members lol.
> 
> 1. I can definitely fucking agree with you that being around before a competitor is an advantage. Like obviously being able to establish yourself first helps and shit. I'm not dumb enough to argue being around first doesn't help the WWE.
> 
> 2. Now I do hard disagree at the idea that coming after just means there's no way you can compete evenly or even surpass the product that came before. I'm not saying that shits easy to do, just it can be done if you got a dope product. Because business wise we can point to businesses that got surpassed by a competitor they predated


You piss me off a lot, but I got nothing but love for ya. You argue like my goddamn brother, making the shit a battle of wills and no longer a discussion but an attempt to “win”. Lmao

WWE being first doesn’t ensure it’s top dog status, but it also ensures that having a badass product does not guarantee success. Vince’s stranglehold and being the market leader nearing monopoly status has changed the perception of what wrestling should look and feel like.

The NWA Powerrr shows, by all accounts, more closely resemble wrestling at its peak, yet they can’t gain a foothold in the market. TNA tried to out soap opera Vince, and they never came close to competing. AEW needs to focus on what it does right and does well while ignoring the segments of the population that claim they’re doing things wrong. Stay the course and grow YOUR niche.

That’s how you overcome the First Mover’s Advantage. You have to offer something different. It doesn’t go unnoticed that the more they lean into the WWE-style, the more the shows suck and the more the ratings stagnate and/or fall.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> You piss me off a lot, but I got nothing but love for ya. You argue like my goddamn brother, making the shit a battle of wills and no longer a discussion but an attempt to “win”. Lmao
> 
> WWE being first doesn’t ensure it’s top dog status, but it also ensures that having a badass product does not guarantee success. Vince’s stranglehold and being the market leader nearing monopoly status has changed the perception of what wrestling should look and feel like.
> 
> The NWA Powerrr shows, by all accounts, more closely resemble wrestling at its peak, yet they can’t gain a foothold in the market. TNA tried to out soap opera Vince, and they never came close to competing. AEW needs to focus on what it does right and does well while ignoring the segments of the population that claim they’re doing things wrong. Stay the course and grow YOUR niche.
> 
> That’s how you overcome the First Mover’s Advantage. You have to offer something different. It doesn’t go unnoticed that the more they lean into the WWE-style, the more the shows suck and the more the ratings stagnate and/or fall.


You the bruh lol. You gotta have a friend or 2 that'll call you a dumb bitch with bad taste on one breath, and uppercut a fucker out of their shoes for you in the next breath. Those the friends that keep you humble and real with yourself .


----------



## zkorejo

RapShepard said:


> I don't disagree with anything you said, my post above explains it more. But my point was just you can beat something that had a headstart. @bdon just a debate and shit talking champ so I wasn't elaborating as good as I should have


Agreed. but in wrestling industry brand loyalty is a strong factor in wrestling fanbase though. Wrestling fans are very.. emotional as opposed to being smart, they are loyal to the fault to the point of ride or die. And WWE has atleast 1-2 million of those die hard fans.


----------



## RapShepard

zkorejo said:


> Agreed. but in wrestling industry brand loyalty is a strong factor in wrestling fanbase though. Wrestling fans are very.. emotional as opposed to being smart, they are loyal to the fault to the point of ride or die. And WWE has atleast 1-2 million of those die hard fans.


Again nothing I'd actively disagree with. Just more I guess AEW needs to find a way to create it's own bigger fan base. Now of course idk how the fuck they do that, but shit I'm a fan bringing a bigger audience ain't my task. Maybe if they add more titties to the show. Have some busty refs


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Again nothing I'd actively disagree with. Just more I guess AEW needs to find a way to create it's own bigger fan base. Now of course idk how the fuck they do that, but shit I'm a fan bringing a bigger audience ain't my task. Maybe if they add more *titties* to the show. Have some busty refs


TNT suggested that, and Tony Khan misread that word as badly as I did at first glance, @RapShepard .


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> TNT suggested that, and Tony Khan misread that word as badly as I did at first glance, @RapShepard .
> 
> View attachment 129840


 TNT in the office confused on how add 3somes turned into trio belts


----------



## Mister Sinister

Changing definitions doesn't change who is factually drawing the larger audience. The numbers are piss for AEW at three years. They are at just over 900k. They should have two million by now.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 468,000
18-49: 0.15

#5 on cable for Friday.

*Last two months*:

7/29: 375,000 / 0.11
7/22: 428,000 / 0.17
7/15: 435,000 / 0.14
7/8: 428,000 / 0.15
7/1: 486,000 / 0.16 (Royal Rampage)
6/24: 422,000 / 0.12
6/17: 331,000 / 0.10
6/10: 476,000 / 0.16


----------



## fabi1982

Afternoon premiere league gets a better demo? UK soccer more beloved than wrestling in the US? Cudos to them.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Afternoon premiere league gets a better demo? UK soccer more beloved than wrestling in the US? Cudos to them.


call me when the Bundesliga makes the top 10 🤣


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> call me when the Bundesliga makes the top 10 🤣


Sadly there is only FCB and Dortmund who are in any way interesting for foreign soccer fans. Probably this could reach the top10. Will call you in rants when that happens 😘


----------



## Geeee

man Friday is such a dead night if a 0.15 is 5th


----------



## 3venflow

Geeee said:


> man Friday is such a dead night if a 0.15 is 5th


Demos have been low in general lately. Only a select number of shows, like RAW with its huge post-Summerslam number, have really bucked the trend.

Last week, the #1 rated shows on cable did:

Monday - 0.60 (RAW's 3-hour average)
Tuesday - 0.24 (Tucker Carlson)
Wednesday - 0.32 (AEW Dynamite)
Thursday - 0.23 (The Five)
Friday - 0.19 (On Patrol Live)

Pro wrestling is one of cable's saving graces right now. F1 (0.49) also did really well on the Sunday before last week.


----------



## CovidFan

Over 20% increase in viewers and over 25% in demo seems pretty good. Way to go Big T!!!


----------



## Geeee

CovidFan said:


> Over 20% increase in viewers and over 25% in demo seems pretty good. Way to go Big T!!!


It's really surprising because it's not like this Rampage card was anything to write home about. Maybe you CAN put Jon Moxley on against random indie wrestlers!


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Another W for WWE in the Friday Night Wars! 😂

Good to see Rampage got a decent rating though.


----------



## CovidFan

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Another W for WWE in the Friday Night Wars! 😂


It'd seem that way but as Randy would likely tell you, SD actually lost ~4.5% of viewers from the previous Friday and Rampage gained ~20% so it's just a matter of time until SD lowers themselves to Rampage's standards Rampage overtakes SD in the ratings!! So really, this is a huge win for Rampage!


----------



## Hotdiggity11

CovidFan said:


> It'd seem that way but as Randy would likely tell you, SD actually lost ~4.5% of viewers from the previous Friday and Rampage gained ~20% so it's just a matter of time until SD lowers themselves to Rampage's standards Rampage overtakes SD in the ratings!! So really, this is a huge win for Rampage!



Ah, mathematical rating trends. Great in theory, bad in application.

Doesn’t matter though, he apparently blocks anyone who dares disagree with him. 😂


----------



## Chip Chipperson

3venflow said:


> If the rankings weren't based on demos, I doubt even WWE would have finished #1 in umpteen number of years. Smackdown would rank close to the bottom of broadcast every week, instead of being touted as the number one show on TV on Fridays. Between FOX, ABC, NBC and CBS last Friday, Smackdown finished sixth out of eight shows in P2+, but first in P18-49. Accept the fact that the 18-49 demo is the default and industry standard for ranking shows now. TBS don't issue press releases about Dynamite being first on cable for the lulz.


Back to the grand old argument though, that being that okay AEW is indeed number 1 in the coveted demo but who wants to market to a bunch of nerdy neckbeards who make under the average wage and mostly live at home with their parents or with roommates?

This isn't me creating a narrative either, I'm of course talking about the Reddit census.


----------



## IronMan8

Best normal Rampage in 2 months.

Good signs.


----------



## JasmineAEW

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Another W for WWE in the Friday Night Wars! 😂
> 
> Good to see Rampage got a decent rating though.


It seems pretty clear Rampage gets better ratings when their show is live. When it's taped, many (if not most fans) will read the spoilers and perhaps decide, "Ok, now I don't need to watch."


----------



## NathanMayberry

This was the last week we will not have year over year ratings to compare rampage to. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Randy Lahey

JasmineAEW said:


> It seems pretty clear Rampage gets better ratings when their show is live. When it's taped, many (if not most fans) will read the spoilers and perhaps decide, "Ok, now I don't need to watch."


I think if Rampage was live and 2 hours earlier it’d be a 0.25 show. 10pm on a Friday is a death slot though for 18-49.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Geeee said:


> man Friday is such a dead night if a 0.15 is 5th


Nobody watches TV on Friday. Almost all the shows in the top 15 were from one channel Fox News


----------



## Dark Emperor

fabi1982 said:


> Afternoon premiere league gets a better demo? UK soccer more beloved than wrestling in the US? Cudos to them.


It's the Mighty Arsenal mate. AEW Rampage had no chance competing on same day against our New boy Jesus & Star boy Saka.


----------



## 3venflow

Chip Chipperson said:


> Back to the grand old argument though, that being that okay AEW is indeed number 1 in the coveted demo but who wants to market to a bunch of nerdy neckbeards who make under the average wage and mostly live at home with their parents or with roommates?
> 
> This isn't me creating a narrative either, I'm of course talking about the Reddit census.


Yes, the Reddit census I completely deconstructed and which you no-sold by instead replying to other people in the thread.

As I wrote.

_9,504 users took the Reddit census last year. 35.2% of them (3,345) said they watch Dynamite live/same day, with 26.5% (886) watching it live/legally through their TV provider. Of that 886, 58.8% (521) were American. So that's 521 of those who come into America's 18-49 demographic.

So how on earth is that a credible sample size of American viewers of pro wrestling/AEW that are watching Dynamite and contributing to that coveted 18-49 demographic? How many of the 14,000 mostly 18-49 people at the Forum the other week or 14,000 at Double or Nothing (who paid up to $800 for a ticket) contributed to that census? _

And then you have USA, FOX and TNT/TBS flouting RAW, Smackdown and Dynamite as the number one shows on cable/broadcast when they finish far from top in total viewers. Oh, and if the sales demo (18-49) revenue was no good for pro wrestling, why doesn't USA make RAW two hours again - something that would improve the program, but which would make no financial sense?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Yes, the Reddit census I completely deconstructed and which you no-sold by instead replying to other people in the thread.
> 
> As I wrote.
> 
> _9,504 users took the Reddit census last year. 35.2% of them (3,345) said they watch Dynamite live/same day, with 26.5% (886) watching it live/legally through their TV provider. Of that 886, 58.8% (521) were American. So that's 521 of those who come into America's 18-49 demographic.
> 
> So how on earth is that a credible sample size of American viewers of pro wrestling/AEW that are watching Dynamite and contributing to that coveted 18-49 demographic? How many of the 14,000 mostly 18-49 people at the Forum the other week or 14,000 at Double or Nothing (who paid up to $800 for a ticket) contributed to that census? _
> 
> And then you have USA, FOX and TNT/TBS flouting RAW, Smackdown and Dynamite as the number one shows on cable/broadcast when they finish far from top in total viewers. Oh, and if the sales demo (18-49) revenue was no good for pro wrestling, why doesn't USA make RAW two hours again - something that would improve the program, but which would make no financial sense?
> 
> View attachment 130024


lol - the reddit census 

not hard to guess who you are "debating" with XD

just place on ignore mate - there is no light at the end of that rainbow


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - the reddit census
> 
> not hard to guess who you are "debating" with XD
> 
> just place on ignore mate - there is no light at the end of that rainbow


To be honest, there's a few toxic posters I've considered doing that with, but it interrupts the flow of the board so I'm reluctant to. No problem with critical posters (and I post criticisms of my own), but those who post 99% bad faith takes and will AEW's failure to stroke their own egos and have their 'gotcha' moment are barely sufferable. It's hard to find any rational discussion on here right now.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> To be honest, there's a few toxic posters I've considered doing that with, but it interrupts the flow of the board so I'm reluctant to. No problem with critical posters (and I post criticisms of my own), but those who post 99% bad faith takes and will AEW's failure to stroke their own egos and have their 'gotcha' moment are barely sufferable. It's hard to find any rational discussion on here right now.


yep - clear difference between a critic and a toxic bad faith poster

i've added some to ignore - and while you are right, it disrupts the flow

it does save you a lot of time 

up to you


----------



## Dr. Middy

3venflow said:


> Yes, the Reddit census I completely deconstructed and which you no-sold by instead replying to other people in the thread.
> 
> As I wrote.
> 
> _9,504 users took the Reddit census last year. 35.2% of them (3,345) said they watch Dynamite live/same day, with 26.5% (886) watching it live/legally through their TV provider. Of that 886, 58.8% (521) were American. So that's 521 of those who come into America's 18-49 demographic.
> 
> So how on earth is that a credible sample size of American viewers of pro wrestling/AEW that are watching Dynamite and contributing to that coveted 18-49 demographic? How many of the 14,000 mostly 18-49 people at the Forum the other week or 14,000 at Double or Nothing (who paid up to $800 for a ticket) contributed to that census? _
> 
> And then you have USA, FOX and TNT/TBS flouting RAW, Smackdown and Dynamite as the number one shows on cable/broadcast when they finish far from top in total viewers. Oh, and if the sales demo (18-49) revenue was no good for pro wrestling, why doesn't USA make RAW two hours again - something that would improve the program, but which would make no financial sense?
> 
> View attachment 130024


Statistically speaking the reddit census isn't bad, but also only takes a look at specific fans who not only use reddit, but use r/squaredcircle frequently enough to fill out a specific form about it. You're going to get obvious biases in the data given the type of clientele which use reddit on a daily basis, and who would spend the time to fill out such a form and provide said data, whih is a fraction of said fraction. 

I'm not going to really talk about it any more than this, I've had conversations with Chip about it prior, but it feels like the census is mostly used as a roundabout way to call AEW fans losers or something, which I don't really understand why it's necessary, but have at it I suppose.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Battle of the Belts III*

Viewers: 437,000
18-49: 0.12

#12 on cable.

A Rampage number, basically. This was down on I and II which is unfortunate as it was way better. It wasn't very well promoted either, to be honest, and felt like an obligation to advertise.

They have one more BotB in October to finish up those quarterlies, then we wait and see if they come back for 2023.


----------



## Saintpat

3venflow said:


> *AEW Battle of the Belts III*
> 
> Viewers: 437,000
> 18-49: 0.12
> 
> #12 on cable.
> 
> A Rampage number, basically. This was down on I and II which is unfortunate as it was way better. It wasn't very well promoted either, to be honest, and felt like an obligation to advertise.
> 
> They have one more BotB in October to finish up those quarterlies, then we wait and see if they come back for 2023.
> 
> View attachment 130027


The regret we’ve already forgot.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*This is awful and inexcusable. They did a fucking horrible job of promoting this.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557009677224972290*


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> *AEW Battle of the Belts III*
> 
> Viewers: 437,000
> 18-49: 0.12
> 
> #12 on cable.
> 
> A Rampage number, basically. This was down on I and II which is unfortunate as it was way better. It wasn't very well promoted either, to be honest, and felt like an obligation to advertise.
> 
> They have one more BotB in October to finish up those quarterlies, then we wait and see if they come back for 2023.
> 
> View attachment 130027


Those are numbers why wrestling doesn’t work on saturdays. Live sports will beat it easily, and even lesser popular live sports in the US like Soccer, UFC, and auto racing will too. 

So I don’t think Rampage will ever be on Saturday. I think the best TV night is Tuesday, but then you’d have shows on back to back nights which could never work on a live basis unless you split roster. Can’t run 2 shows back to back nights in same city


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Lol these shows did better than BOTB III except for Smack Talk


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557025228907331586

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr316

Man. Truly feels like the downfall has begun. Fans are losing interest in the product and Tony Khan has lost control.


----------



## Saintpat

How is Battle of the Belts supposed to stand out and feel ‘you need to watch this’ special when every week Dynamite has a name?: Quake at the Lake, Quiver by the River, Subpoena by the Marina, Fight for the Fallen (never quite got that one — who are the fallen they’re fighting for?), Fyter Fest (named after a big island party that was a disaster that basically no one even remembers, lol), Battle for the Cattle (would be a great name for a Dynamite in Nebraska or maybe rural Texas), etc.

It’s like a department store that has a sale every week of the year — it’s not a sale anymore, it’s just what your prices are.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Lol these shows did better than BOTB III except for Smack Talk
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557025228907331586
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*AEW got outdrawn by one of the worst big name draws in the 90's 😂*


----------



## Irish Jet

Mr316 said:


> Man. Truly feels like the downfall has begun. Fans are losing interest in the product and Tony Khan has lost control.


It’s honestly quite astonishing to see the different trajectories of both companies right now.

Punk and MJF returning may help some. Omega’s fans will be watching anyways so doubt he’ll move much but god this Moxley era has been as bad as wrestling gets. Predictable yet bizarre. Not a winning combination.


----------



## 3venflow

Some TV-related stuff here from a TK interview with an industry magazine. Sounds like the AEW/WBD partnership remains very stable.

Any thoughts on the IP they could be working with?

*Tony Khan on working with WBD management and integration with a prestigious IP:* “For such a hands-on, strong, and respected management team to have identified AEW multiple times in their presentation is something that is important. Privately and in business, I’m seeing it like that on a daily basis. Since the Shark Week integration was such a great success, *we’re working on another huge partnership* that I’m very excited about in terms of creativity and a hugely prestigious IP that we’re being trusted to partner with. I believe it’s because we have shown we can do a good job with integrations and be easy and fun and collaborative and have a good audience that makes us good partners. We recently also collaborated on a panel with AEW representation at Comic-Con through the Warner Bros. Discovery PR and media team. They were so helpful. That was a huge success. Now I’m excited about another integration that hasn’t been announced yet. I’m very pumped about it. It’s going to be very soon. *The IP is very prestigious in the world of television.* The partnership represents another really good sign that Warner Bros. Discovery likes what AEW is doing.”

*Tony Khan on talks with Warner Bros. Discovery management:* “I’m very excited about the reception we’ve gotten from the management of Warner Bros. Discovery, which has been the most engagement we’ve had, and being involved in the company’s biggest initiatives. It was in a meeting with several of the top executives in the new Warner Bros. Discovery family several months ago when they mentioned the idea of getting AEW involved with Shark Week in co-promotion. I suggested Fyter Fest and Shark Week would go together perfectly. It was an incredibly successful promotion for everyone involved. Management from Warner Bros. Discovery reached out to say they were very pleased all-around with that partnership. That integration was one of two slides in the recent main presentation that involved AEW as company highlights, which is so great for us because we have this hands-on management with Warner Bros. Discovery. They are putting their stamp on the new company, and *we’re part of their plans*.”


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Some TV-related stuff here from a TK interview with an industry magazine. Sounds like the AEW/WBD partnership remains very stable.
> 
> Any thoughts on the IP they could be working with?
> 
> *Tony Khan on working with WBD management and integration with a prestigious IP:* “For such a hands-on, strong, and respected management team to have identified AEW multiple times in their presentation is something that is important. Privately and in business, I’m seeing it like that on a daily basis. Since the Shark Week integration was such a great success, *we’re working on another huge partnership* that I’m very excited about in terms of creativity and a hugely prestigious IP that we’re being trusted to partner with. I believe it’s because we have shown we can do a good job with integrations and be easy and fun and collaborative and have a good audience that makes us good partners. We recently also collaborated on a panel with AEW representation at Comic-Con through the Warner Bros. Discovery PR and media team. They were so helpful. That was a huge success. Now I’m excited about another integration that hasn’t been announced yet. I’m very pumped about it. It’s going to be very soon. *The IP is very prestigious in the world of television.* The partnership represents another really good sign that Warner Bros. Discovery likes what AEW is doing.”
> 
> *Tony Khan on talks with Warner Bros. Discovery management:* “I’m very excited about the reception we’ve gotten from the management of Warner Bros. Discovery, which has been the most engagement we’ve had, and being involved in the company’s biggest initiatives. It was in a meeting with several of the top executives in the new Warner Bros. Discovery family several months ago when they mentioned the idea of getting AEW involved with Shark Week in co-promotion. I suggested Fyter Fest and Shark Week would go together perfectly. It was an incredibly successful promotion for everyone involved. Management from Warner Bros. Discovery reached out to say they were very pleased all-around with that partnership. That integration was one of two slides in the recent main presentation that involved AEW as company highlights, which is so great for us because we have this hands-on management with Warner Bros. Discovery. They are putting their stamp on the new company, and *we’re part of their plans*.”


Wonder what the big IP is?

Animal Planet? XD

as an aside, you don't partner on IPs with guys you don't trust - so this all bodes very well


----------



## .christopher.

Haha

QUICK, let's book a star vs a jobber in a 10+ minute competitive match to make up for this!



The Legit Lioness said:


> *AEW got outdrawn by one of the worst big name draws in the 90's 😂*


Lex Luger > shitty indy-esque wrestling


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Wonder what the big IP is?
> 
> Animal Planet? XD
> 
> as an aside, you don't partner on IPs with guys you don't trust - so this all bodes very well


Could be. Another thought I had with an idea...

The Game of Thrones spin-off, House of Dragon, debuts on HBO on August 21st. It fits the 'huge IP' description and there's a fitting match for it...

'American Dragon' Bryan Danielson vs. 'Dragon Slayer' Daniel Garcia

They could even run it in a medieval style 'dragon' pit.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW wrestlers in MultiVersus would be huge and great free publicity too. That's something TK should angle for.

MJF on Sesame Street

Sammy and Tay on 90 Day Fiance

Ricky Starks as The Flash

Winter is Coming tie-in to the GoTverse


----------



## 3venflow

Any Italians on here? Looks like AEW is getting a TV deal in Italy because FITE will only be showing their shows two weeks later now.

Taken from someone on Twitter:


----------



## 3venflow

For those interested, WrestleTix posted some charts on their Patreon of average attendances per month and below are AEW's. Obviously these are skewed by PPVs/major TV events. I've included WWE's TV average (not house shows) in brackets to get an idea of how AEW is selling tickets in comparison to the industry leader.

January: 5,127 (WWE: 5,853)
February: 5,529 (WWE: 6,416)
March: 4,672 (WWE: 8,222)
April: 5,183 (WWE: 8,322)
May: 6,740 (WWE: 6,632)
June: 8,807 (WWE: 5,997)
July: 4,985 (WWE: 8,777)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> For those interested, WrestleTix posted some charts on their Patreon of average attendances per month and below are AEW's. Obviously these are skewed by PPVs/major TV events. I've included WWE's TV average (not house shows) in brackets to get an idea of how AEW is selling tickets in comparison to the industry leader.
> 
> January: 5,127 (WWE: 5,853)
> February: 5,529 (WWE: 6,416)
> March: 4,672 (WWE: 8,222)
> April: 5,183 (WWE: 8,322)
> May: 6,740 (WWE: 6,632)
> June: 8,807 (WWE: 5,997)
> July: 4,985 (WWE: 8,777)


bums in seats, the only metric really worth worrying about


----------



## Sad Panda

With all this talk that AEW is potentially in trouble or on the “outs” with Warner Discovery, it sure does seem AEW is being used as a way to advertise some rather massive content within the Warner Discovery universe. Between Shark Week and now Game of Thrones being sponsored on the show next week, those are rather big deals for AEW to be apart of one would think.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Sad Panda said:


> With all this talk that AEW is potentially in trouble or on the “outs” with Warner Discovery, it sure does seem AEW is being used as a way to advertise some rather massive content within the Warner Discovery universe. Between Shark Week and now Game of Thrones being sponsored on the show next week, those are rather big deals for AEW to be apart of one would think.


TNA was used this way as well near the end, I remember many a wrestling fan saying "Impact won't be cancelled! They just did a crossover with Bellator!"

Within a year TNA was punted off Spike TV.


----------



## Not Lying

Sad Panda said:


> With all this talk that AEW is potentially in trouble or on the “outs” with Warner Discovery, it sure does seem AEW is being used as a way to advertise some rather massive content within the Warner Discovery universe. Between Shark Week and now Game of Thrones being sponsored on the show next week, those are rather big deals for AEW to be apart of one would think.


It’ll come down to negotiations. WD will 100% give them an offer due ti how well they’re doing, they’re the #1 show on Wednesday for like 3-4 months in a year it’s good. If another channel is willing to pay more than WD for the next few years, TK should take the $$ even if it means sacrificing some of their viewership.
Depends on how much money TK expects.
All these partnerships are just to sweeten the deal.


----------



## Sad Panda

Chip Chipperson said:


> TNA was used this way as well near the end, I remember many a wrestling fan saying "Impact won't be cancelled! They just did a crossover with Bellator!"
> 
> Within a year TNA was punted off Spike TV.


Interesting, I didn’t know that.

Quite frankly, I don’t know anything regarding TNA and their situation with Spike and if there are similarities between AEW and Warner Discovery. I’m sure there are instances where the crossovers and promotions were an indicator that the network saw a concrete future. While in other cases, like TNA/Spike where it didn’t work out for whatever reason.

Itll be fascinating to follow for the next year and a half.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 972,000
18-49: 0.33

#1 on cable for the seventh time in eight weeks. The demo is very static and not as high as in the past, but it's still getting them atop the Nielsen charts.

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

8/3: 938,000 / 0.32
7/27: 976,000 / 0.33
7/20: 910,000 / 0.32
7/13: 942,000 / 0.32
7/6: 979,000 / 0.36
6/29: 1,023,000 / 0.36 (Blood & Guts)
6/22: 878,000 / 0.31
6/15: 761,000 / 0.28


----------



## RogueSlayer

Quake at the Lake and The Ratings definitely didn't shake


----------



## RainmakerV2

Will Punk get them over the magic 1 mil mark next week? Be there or be square


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

No change really, but not great considering it was Mox/Jericho. With Punk’s return this week though, next week should be strong and above a million.


----------



## fabi1982

I guess a lot of people didnt follow TKs advise?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Even “must see or you’ll regret it” named AEW shows can’t get over a milly now. Ouch.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> I guess a lot of people didnt follow TKs advise?


Dynamite‘s viewers grew, Raw’s fell by 300k

Papa HHH and the Fed in the mud 

sad to see :,(


----------



## NathanMayberry

Year over year 



















There is no competition on tv at all this year for them yet they have to do special episodes with blood, world titles and CM Punk returning to even meet the numbers from last year..

This isn’t sustainable, all those things have lost their appeal and getting more and more complaints.. tiny is too rich to understand that the biggest reason why people want things is that they can’t have them. Punk didn’t need to go through those nobodies before facing Moxley, all those unnecessary matches killed the allure of CM Punk, that’s why Dynamites can’t even draw what he did on a Friday night anymore. 

Imagine if last night was how Punk debuted in AEW. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chelsea

Madison Rayne draws big.


----------



## Saintpat

RogueSlayer said:


> Quake at the Lake and The Ratings definitely didn't shake


Huddle in the Puddle is going to be massive.


----------



## The XL 2

Wrestling is niche programming that still does well on cable relative to the landscape because, despite the fact that wrestling has bled out viewers over the past 20 years, even what remains is still more than the field. Both AEW and WWE could be doing way better though.


----------



## Randy Lahey

0.33 is their sticky audience. Very consistent. It’d be better if they were at a 0.40 but this is the way Cable is trending. I think Raw is going to be a 0.35-0.45 show so staying at 0.35 is fine. You need to build an audience that will stay with you, and I think AEW is doing that 

Love the 0.44 in men 18-49. That is very strong.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The week in demo

Funny - when you look at this like a lot of people WANT to look at it, ie) overall

then wwe is 9th and AEW is 19th

for overall viewers, a lot of stuff beats wrestling

luckily the demo matters


----------



## RapShepard

Randy Lahey said:


> 0.33 is their sticky audience. Very consistent. It’d be better if they were at a 0.40 but this is the way Cable is trending. I think Raw is going to be a 0.35-0.45 show so staying at 0.35 is fine. You need to build an audience that will stay with you, and I think AEW is doing that
> 
> Love the 0.44 in men 18-49. That is very strong.


I guess if you predict it every fucking week maybe one day you'll be right.


----------



## The real Axel

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dynamite‘s viewers grew, Raw’s fell by 300k
> 
> Papa HHH and the Fed in the mud
> 
> sad to see :,(


Keep coping, Dubbalo. The downfall is in full swing and I'm glad to be along for the ride


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The real Axel said:


> Keep coping, Dubbalo. The downfall is in full swing and I'm glad to be along for the ride


sorry FedFam, not sure what numbers you are watching

Dynamite grew. That means we got those sweet casuals to tune in

Raw lost 300k viewers, that means Papa HHHs booking sux and he should have played a video package for Dexter Lumis cause lolnobodywatchesNXTLOL


----------



## Garmonbozia

No milly???


----------



## Sad Panda

The real Axel said:


> Keep coping, Dubbalo. The downfall is in full swing and I'm glad to be along for the ride


Aww, that’s sweet, im glad your happy.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Down year over year in both Demo and Overall, so according to one poster in particular, bad number based on that alone.


----------



## Sad Panda

Garmonbozia said:


> No milly???


Is that Danielsons dog or something?


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dynamite‘s viewers grew, Raw’s fell by 300k
> 
> Papa HHH and the Fed in the mud
> 
> sad to see :,(


Sad to see you sink to our level. You have been a role model for so many young girls and now this?


----------



## Geeee

LifeInCattleClass said:


> sorry FedFam, not sure what numbers you are watching
> 
> Dynamite grew. That means we got those sweet casuals to tune in
> 
> Raw lost 300k viewers, that means Papa HHHs booking sux and he should have played a video package for Dexter Lumis cause lolnobodywatchesNXTLOL


I watched Raw as a casual and I was so confused by Dexter Lumis that a vein popped in my forehead. True story!


----------



## 3venflow

Considering there are about 45,000 Nielsen houses in the USA, there's probably a considerable margin of error so they may be hitting this fictional 1 million benchmark on the same day (they breeze past it +3 and +7) in reality, or they might be doing 890,000. It's barely relevant anyway, as long as the audience is high enough to sustain their high cable ranking. If they dropped to 500k for example, their demo would fall in turn to about 0.20 and that would be bad.



Showstopper said:


> Down year over year in both Demo and Overall, so according to one poster in particular, bad number based on that alone.


Year on year average, they are up by quite a lot. But it's stupid to look at things in such simplistic ways without context. The reason they're up this year, as I said last week, is because they were hurt less by the NBA playoffs this year. The move to TBS ensured fewer preemptions. They dropped as low as 462k/0.19 last year due to that. Even so, they're consistent, stable and healthy. They should by all rights get a raise in 2024, but the WBD shake-up obviously makes it less of a certainty even though there are good signs right now that they are favored by the company. A rival bidder for the rights is the best thing that could happen to up the ante, but I'm not sure what options there really are. If RAW moved to FOX, USA maybe.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Sad to see you sink to our level. You have been a role model for so many young girls and niw this?


i’ve learned from the best xD


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Showstopper said:


> Down year over year in both Demo and Overall, so according to one poster in particular, bad number based on that alone.


but up from last week, therefore new growth

AEW wins again  

Mox’s blood drew all the casuals


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

3venflow said:


> Considering there are about 45,000 Nielsen houses in the USA, there's probably a considerable margin of error so they may be hitting this fictional 1 million benchmark on the same day (they breeze past it +3 and +7) in reality, or they might be doing 890,000. It's barely relevant anyway, as long as the audience is high enough to sustain their high cable ranking. If they dropped to 500k for example, their demo would fall in turn to about 0.20 and that would be bad.
> 
> 
> 
> Year on year average, they are up by quite a lot. But it's stupid to look at things in such simplistic ways without context. The reason they're up this year, as I said last week, is because they were hurt less by the NBA playoffs this year. The move to TBS ensured fewer preemptions. They dropped as low as 462k/0.19 last year due to that. Even so, they're consistent, stable and healthy. They should by all rights get a raise in 2024, but the WBD shake-up obviously makes it less of a certainty even though there are good signs right now that they are favored by the company. A rival bidder for the rights is the best thing that could happen to up the ante, but I'm not sure what options there really are. If RAW moved to FOX, USA maybe.


I'm talking from this week last year (8/11/21), as someone posted above, they are down from that show. One poster in particular who claims to be an AEW fan always claims when Raw is down year on year from the same week the previous year, it's a bad number, even when they did a .61 demo last week.

Just serving it back to him and using his logic.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’ve learned from the best xD


Imitation is the best form of flattery


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but up from last week, therefore new growth
> 
> AEW wins again
> 
> Mox’s blood drew all the casuals


Actually, they got destroyed by RAW this week in both demo and overall and probably will by SD tomorrow, too.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but up from last week, therefore new growth
> 
> AEW wins again
> 
> Mox’s blood drew all the casuals


Bbbbut he just have so much blood to give. Dont dry Mox out just for new casuals. You just have one Mox


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Showstopper said:


> Actually, they got destroyed by RAW this week in both demo and overall and probably will by SD tomorrow, too.


sorry sir, its not a competition cause its not on the same night

maybe when papa HHH has the balls to put his show against AEW again we’ll find out

but since TK already slaughtered him once and sent him packing to Tuesdays, i think we’ll never know

 




fabi1982 said:


> Bbbbut he just have so much blood to give. Dont dry Mox out just for new casuals. You just have one Mox


Darby can bleed for the casuals next week


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

LifeInCattleClass said:


> sorry sir, its not a competition cause its not on the same night
> 
> maybe when papa HHH has the balls to put his show against AEW again we’ll find out
> 
> but since TK already slaughtered him once and sent him packing to Tuesdays, i think we’ll never know













Ahhh, now it's not a competition. Can't say I blame ya'. Last time it was the minors vs. the minors (NXT). Replacing NXT with either of the main-rosters shows, would be a completely different ballgame.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Showstopper said:


> Ahhh, now it's not a competition. Can't say I blame ya'. Last time it was the minors vs. the minors (NXT). Replacing NXT with either of the main-rosters shows, would be a completely different ballgame.


sorry, i don’t deal in hypotheticals sir

i do think papa HHH should work on his booking - needs more blood and guts


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> sorry sir, its not a competition cause its not on the same night
> 
> maybe when papa HHH has the balls to put his show against AEW again we’ll find out
> 
> but since TK already slaughtered him once and sent him packing to Tuesdays, i think we’ll never know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Darby can bleed for the casuals next week


Does he even has blood? I thought all he does contain of is coil springs and idiocy


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

LifeInCattleClass said:


> sorry, i don’t deal in hypotheticals sir
> 
> i do think papa HHH should work on his booking - needs more blood and guts


Agreed. And I'm just busting balls. I like all of ya' here minus one. I'm okay with some more blood for sure. Just not blood for the sake of blood. Not claiming AEW does that because I wouldn't know. Just saying while I certainly for more of a 'risque' product than Magoo (Vince) was giving us, I don't need it to be 90's ECW, either. There is a sweet-spot there.


----------



## DammitChrist

Dynamite receiving another strong rating yet again


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Does he even has blood? I thought all he does contain of is coil springs and idiocy


nope, that sounds like Ricochet


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Showstopper said:


> Agreed. And I'm just busting balls. I like all of ya' here minus one. I'm okay with some more blood for sure. Just not blood for the sake of blood. Not claiming AEW does that because I wouldn't know. Just saying while I certainly for more of a 'risque' product than Magoo (Vince) was giving us, I don't need it to be 90's ECW, either. There is a sweet-spot there.


lol, don’t worry mate - i was taking none of this seriously

i rarely do

hell… i don’t even post in this section anymore


----------



## RapShepard

Considerable amount of salt that AEW can't hit a million.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Considerable amount of salt that AEW can't hit a million.


i think its more like paprika


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think its more like paprika


But it's not smoked paprika


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> But it's not smoked paprika


in the end, nothing really is


----------



## The real Axel

LifeInCattleClass said:


> sorry FedFam, not sure what numbers you are watching
> 
> Dynamite grew. That means we got those sweet casuals to tune in
> 
> Raw lost 300k viewers, that means Papa HHHs booking sux and he should have played a video package for Dexter Lumis cause lolnobodywatchesNXTLOL


I don't know who Dexter Lumis is but I'm sure his debut was awesome. #I'mwithHHH


----------



## ElTerrible

Geeee said:


> I watched Raw as a casual and I was so confused by Dexter Lumis that a vein popped in my forehead. True story!


 I knew it. Dexter and Lumen have a son. Once Showtime signs him away from USA Network it is on. How is Julia Stiles looking these days?


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> But it's not smoked paprika


Whatever it is, it is definitely inhaled.


----------



## Geeee

ElTerrible said:


> I knew it. Dexter and Lumen have a son. Once Showtime signs him away from USA Network it is on. How is Julia Stiles looking these days?


I saw a Reddit thread and Julia Stiles was actually at an indie wrestling show recently


----------



## ElTerrible

Geeee said:


> I saw a Reddit thread and Julia Stiles was actually at an indie wrestling show recently


Of course. Good parents show interest in their children´s job.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Once again they threw a bucket of blood on the mat and it didn't move the needle. You need better story building, continuity and promotion to make people even aware Jericho vs Mox is being given away on tv. This matchup, plus Punk returning, could main event Raw, but on Dynamite, with no writers, it can't break a million viewers.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

Another crappy rating below a million. Tony better be worried because the new guy at Warner might scrap them too.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The real Axel said:


> I don't know who Dexter Lumis is but I'm sure his debut was awesome. #I'mwithHHH


lol, your ‘ sign breaks the hashtag

you just hashtagged ‘I’ noob

typical HHH fan

#doesnotunderstandhashtags #doeshashtagsevenworkhere


----------



## Sad Panda

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> Another crappy rating below a million. Tony better be worried because the new guy at Warner might scrap them too.


You and Mr316 are the same person. Either that or long distance cousins.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Sad Panda said:


> You and Mr316 are the same person. Either that or long distance cousins.


they are so closely related, they own the same dog xD


----------



## Sad Panda

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they are so closely related, they own the same dog xD


is the dog named “Milly”?


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> Considerable amount of salt that AEW can't hit a million.


From where. Outside of Life fucking around I haven't seen much.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> From where. Outside of Life fucking around I haven't seen much.


all my posts are serious


----------



## Kishido

Next week it finally will happen and from that point it will just go upwards


----------



## 3venflow

Another press release from Warner celebrating Dynamite's cable domination on Wednesdays.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

3venflow said:


> Another press release from Warner celebrating Dynamite's cable domination on Wednesdays.
> 
> View attachment 130291


Certainly a good sign. 

Warner was already high on them before the merger but it seems Discovery is as well considering they're doing a lot of this kind of cross promotion stuff. 

Something I thought was a really good idea I heard from I think Garret Gonzalez on the Fight Game Podcast would be to promote next weeks show with the hook of an exclusive extended trailer for House of Dragons.

-----

I don't know if they're going to get as much as they would have before the merger when they go to renegotiate but I think they're still going to get an increase.

Having another bidder would be pretty big at the bargaining table though -- I heard someone recently saying that FOX actually wanted both RAW and Smackdown but USA's first bid for RAW was just too much for them to stomach. I think those deals run out around the same time as the AEW contract since they were signed for 5 years in 2018? 

I dunno.. if either company could get AEW for half or even less they might be kind of interested. But if they're doing well for WBD and they're a fraction of the price of WWE, NHL, and the NBA, they might be interested in keeping them close and cozy.


----------



## CovidFan

3venflow said:


> Another press release from Warner celebrating Dynamite's cable domination on Wednesdays.
> 
> View attachment 130291


Warner praising AEW seems like the nail in the coffin haters were expecting. Congrats, haters! You won and AEW is DEAD!


----------



## Chip Chipperson

3venflow said:


> Considering there are about 45,000 Nielsen houses in the USA, there's probably a considerable margin of error so they may be hitting this fictional 1 million benchmark on the same day (they breeze past it +3 and +7) in reality, or they might be doing 890,000. It's barely relevant anyway, as long as the audience is high enough to sustain their high cable ranking. If they dropped to 500k for example, their demo would fall in turn to about 0.20 and that would be bad.
> 
> 
> 
> Year on year average, they are up by quite a lot. But it's stupid to look at things in such simplistic ways without context. The reason they're up this year, as I said last week, is because they were hurt less by the NBA playoffs this year. The move to TBS ensured fewer preemptions. They dropped as low as 462k/0.19 last year due to that. Even so, they're consistent, stable and healthy. They should by all rights get a raise in 2024, but the WBD shake-up obviously makes it less of a certainty even though there are good signs right now that they are favored by the company. A rival bidder for the rights is the best thing that could happen to up the ante, but I'm not sure what options there really are. If RAW moved to FOX, USA maybe.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Chip Chipperson said:


>


Hey c'mon man.. You gotta account for the other half of this board --


----------



## NathanMayberry

Umm didn’t Warner Media have a press release touting Dynamite’s ratings: 411MANIA | TNT Issues Press Release Touting AEW Dynamite’s Ratings Boost one month before they announced it was moving to TBS for hockey that gets less viewers and D E M O: AEW Franchise Continues Domination and Expands to TBS in 2022 | Pressroom 

These press releases don’t mean much. They have AEW for another year, they still have to sell ad slots until that time is up regardless of whether or not they’re keeping it. 

If marketing’s role is to grow revenue by marketing shows in their catalog why wouldn’t they market their show? This is a message to sponsors. 

Are the quality of commercials going up? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Chip Chipperson said:


>


Interesting response since I'm actually arguing that 2022's viewership increase on 2021 is illusionary as opposed to the growth it seems to be on paper, due to variables (playoffs). Imagine being able to be rational like that!

Oh and you no-sold my deconstruction of your weak Reddit census crutch for a second time, since you know it's ridiculous and your excuse to justify your self-loathing hatred of wrestling fans.

LICC was right, it's pointless debating with bad faith actors/shitposters like yourself who are so desperate for your 'gotcha' moment that you can't argue rationally. My ignore list finally has an entrant and it's the fake bookerman.


----------



## Irish Jet

That's the diminishing returns of giving every Dynamite a theme and having Moxley defend the belt against nobodies every week. Self sabotage.

With a professional running things this company could be so fucking good.


----------



## 3venflow

*Highs* and lows highlighted.

Q1: Darby Allin vs. Brody King – *1,064,000 viewers*, *507,000 in 18-49*
Q2: Jon Moxley promo/Chris Jericho promo/Rush & Andrade el Idolo vs. Lucha Bros – 972,000 viewers (down 92,000), 442,000 in 18-49 (down 65,000)
Q3: End of Rush & Andrade vs. Lucha Bros/Young Bucks, Hangman Page & Dark Order segment – 941,000 viewers (down 31,000), 407,000 in 18-49 (down 35,000)
Q4: Luchasaurus vs. Anthony Henry/Christian Cage & Jungle Boy segment/Miro promo/Jay Lethal, Wardlow & FTR segment/JAS promo – 948,000 viewers (up 7,000), 407,000 in 18-49 (even)
Q5: Ricky Starks vs. Aaron Solo/Gunn Club segment/Best Friends & Trustbusters segment/Jade Cargill vs. Madison Rayne – 950,000 viewers (up 2,000), 409,000 in 18-49 (up 2,000)
Q6: End of Cargill vs. Rayne/ThunderStorm interview/lineup for next week – 926,000 viewers (down 24,000), 408,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
Q7: Jon Moxley vs. Chris Jericho – 968,000 viewers (up 42,000), 432,000 in 18-49 (up 24,000)
Q8: End of Moxley vs. Jericho/CM Punk returns – 1,003,000 viewers (up 35,000), 444,000 in 18-49 (up 12,000)

Last week's:

Q1: Jay Lethal vs. Orange Cassidy - *1,020,000* / 444,000
Q2: Lethal/Wardlow angle, Undisputed Elite angle, Mox promo - 980,000 / *451,000*
Q3: Christian promo/Jungle Boy, ThunderStorm vs. Baker & Hayter - 885,000 / 396,000
Q4: End of tag, Sammy/Tay/Kingston, Hobbs squash/Starks angle, Miro & Darby promos - 915,000 / 404,000
Q5: Christian vs. Matt Hardy, Jungle Boy post-match, Daniel Garcia promo - 944,000 / 422,000
Q6: Pac video, Ethan Page/Stokely, JAS segment, most of Acclaimed vs Ass Boys - 946,000 / 430,000
Q7: End of dumpster match, Jericho vs. Yuta intros - 922,000 /435,000
Q8: Yuta/Jericho, Mox promo - 892,000 / 407,000

So Tony moving the women's division around, well... see above (that was a very good match too). Perhaps they need to do one of two things: get fully behind it and try to make it interesting or can it completely. Last week's main event also lost interest which goes against the norm, the predictability of the outcome probably not helping.


----------



## 3venflow

Just updated the post above with last week's QHs for anyone interested.


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> *Highs* and lows highlighted.
> 
> Q1: Darby Allin vs. Brody King – *1,064,000 viewers*, *507,000 in 18-49*
> Q2: Jon Moxley promo/Chris Jericho promo/Rush & Andrade el Idolo vs. Lucha Bros – 972,000 viewers (down 92,000), 442,000 in 18-49 (down 65,000)
> Q3: End of Rush & Andrade vs. Lucha Bros/Young Bucks, Hangman Page & Dark Order segment – 941,000 viewers (down 31,000), 407,000 in 18-49 (down 35,000)
> Q4: Luchasaurus vs. Anthony Henry/Christian Cage & Jungle Boy segment/Miro promo/Jay Lethal, Wardlow & FTR segment/JAS promo – 948,000 viewers (up 7,000), 407,000 in 18-49 (even)
> Q5: Ricky Starks vs. Aaron Solo/Gunn Club segment/Best Friends & Trustbusters segment/Jade Cargill vs. Madison Rayne – 950,000 viewers (up 2,000), 409,000 in 18-49 (up 2,000)
> Q6: End of Cargill vs. Rayne/ThunderStorm interview/lineup for next week – 926,000 viewers (down 24,000), 408,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
> Q7: Jon Moxley vs. Chris Jericho – 968,000 viewers (up 42,000), 432,000 in 18-49 (up 24,000)
> Q8: End of Moxley vs. Jericho/CM Punk returns – 1,003,000 viewers (up 35,000), 444,000 in 18-49 (up 12,000)
> 
> Last week's:
> 
> Q1: Jay Lethal vs. Orange Cassidy - *1,020,000* / 444,000
> Q2: Lethal/Wardlow angle, Undisputed Elite angle, Mox promo - 980,000 / *451,000*
> Q3: Christian promo/Jungle Boy, ThunderStorm vs. Baker & Hayter - 885,000 / 396,000
> Q4: End of tag, Sammy/Tay/Kingston, Hobbs squash/Starks angle, Miro & Darby promos - 915,000 / 404,000
> Q5: Christian vs. Matt Hardy, Jungle Boy post-match, Daniel Garcia promo - 944,000 / 422,000
> Q6: Pac video, Ethan Page/Stokely, JAS segment, most of Acclaimed vs Ass Boys - 946,000 / 430,000
> Q7: End of dumpster match, Jericho vs. Yuta intros - 922,000 /435,000
> Q8: Yuta/Jericho, Mox promo - 892,000 / 407,000
> 
> So Tony moving the women's division around, well... see above (that was a very good match too). Perhaps they need to do one of two things: get fully behind it and try to make it interesting or can it completely. Last week's main event also lost interest which goes against the norm, the predictability of the outcome probably not helping.


They put the women in the 1st hour. Still dropped 100,000 viewers.

That should be evidence AEW fans do not like womens wrestling, and will never like it. 

Imagine the ratings they’d get if they simply did 2 full hours of mens matches


----------



## Chip Chipperson

3venflow said:


> Interesting response since I'm actually arguing that 2022's viewership increase on 2021 is illusionary as opposed to the growth it seems to be on paper, due to variables (playoffs). Imagine being able to be rational like that!
> 
> Oh and you no-sold my deconstruction of your weak Reddit census crutch for a second time, since you know it's ridiculous and your excuse to justify your self-loathing hatred of wrestling fans.
> 
> LICC was right, it's pointless debating with bad faith actors/shitposters like yourself who are so desperate for your 'gotcha' moment that you can't argue rationally. My ignore list finally has an entrant and it's the fake bookerman.




You won't see this since I'm allegedly on ignore (Oh noes! How will I go on?!) but I figured I should respond since I don't typically ignore messages.

First of all, the offending meme was posted because you will regularly make these posts trying to justify a number going down, in this circumstance it was directed at you saying there is some margin of error which is true but is never brought up when AEW pops a big rating but will come up once they struggle to hit the coveted million. It is also never brought up in relation to the WWE or any other wrestling related things, just the Dub.

Second of all, I never "no-sold" anything, I didn't see the post because I don't typically click my notifications to read the messages unless it's from someone I actually like/am interested in reading the opinion of. I'm sure it was the typical argument that I've already read many times before though which of course would be the "There are a million wrestling fans but they only surveyed 10,000 people so how do we know for sures!". Again, not interested in reading someone "deconstruct" something when they don't understand how a survey works.

Third of all, I don't hate wrestling fans I'm just honest about them. They ON AVERAGE are the nerdier types who don't get out much, don't spend much money and aren't exactly killing it with well paying jobs. Doesn't bother me really, I've just always said and to this day maintain that ADVERTISERS wouldn't necessarily find that attractive therefore the "AEW does well in the demo!" argument is null and void.

As for the "Fake Bookerman" comment, very original. Never seen that one before.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dynamite‘s viewers grew, Raw’s fell by 300k
> 
> Papa HHH and the Fed in the mud
> 
> sad to see :,(


Delusional


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> Delusional


sorry, i don’t make the rules


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 528,000
18-49: 0.17

Its highest viewership in four months.










*Last two months*

8/5: 468,000 / 0.15
7/29: 375,000 / 0.11
7/22: 428,000 / 0.17
7/15: 435,000 / 0.14
7/8: 428,000 / 0.15
7/1: 486,000 / 0.16 (Royal Rampage)
6/24: 422,000 / 0.12
6/17: 331,000 / 0.10

Rampage finished #10 on cable, down from last week's #5 despite a higher demo number.


----------



## DammitChrist

Daniel Garcia being the right up-and-comer to beat Bryan Danielson confirmed.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Why do people still doubt Orange Cassidy is the real question


----------



## Dr. Middy

That segment with Danielson/Garcia should be something they use on every Rampage. It actually was worth watching on the show and furthered their storyline while building up to their next match on Dynamite.

MORE of this please.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewers: 528,000
> 18-49: 0.17
> 
> Its highest viewership in four months.
> 
> View attachment 130513
> 
> 
> *Last two months*
> 
> 8/5: 468,000 / 0.15
> 7/29: 375,000 / 0.11
> 7/22: 428,000 / 0.17
> 7/15: 435,000 / 0.14
> 7/8: 428,000 / 0.15
> 7/1: 486,000 / 0.16 (Royal Rampage)
> 6/24: 422,000 / 0.12
> 6/17: 331,000 / 0.10
> 
> Rampage finished #10 on cable, down from last week's #5 despite a higher demo number.
> 
> View attachment 130514


😂😂😂

This has been the most negative reviewed Rampage yet and it is _this _episode that gets it back to over 500 thousand.

😂😂😂😂


----------



## 3venflow

ripcitydisciple said:


> 😂😂😂
> 
> This has been the most negative reviewed Rampage yet and it is _this _episode that gets it back to over 500 thousand.
> 
> 😂😂😂😂


Bizarre even if not unprecedented, as some bad Dynamites have done better than good ones.

There can only be one explanation for this...


----------



## HoneyBee

3venflow said:


> Bizarre even if not unprecedented, as some bad Dynamites have done better than good ones.
> 
> There can only be one explanation for this...


This theme will single handedly get them over. I'm already a fan lol. That Boudreaux dude does not belong on TV but I like his cheesy forced tough guy act. He's just a tattooed fat guy flexing.


----------



## Geeee

Danielson was advertised for the show. So, maybe that's why? It may have also helped that Smackdown's main event was really good and ended 3 minutes early, so people may have channel surfed for more rasslin'


----------



## Oracle

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559277793300516865
Thats the real truth


----------



## Whoanma

The Last Jedi?


----------



## IronMan8

Dr. Middy said:


> That segment with Danielson/Garcia should be something they use on every Rampage. It actually was worth watching on the show and furthered their storyline while building up to their next match on Dynamite.
> 
> MORE of this please.


Yep. Basically, they said "We know you all wanted to see Bryan Danielson tonight, but you can't have him... you'll have to watch Rampage to see him speak!"

So the reason was their decision to promote Bryan Danielson during Dynamite.


----------



## Good Bunny

Sonny Kiss is a draw brothers


----------



## Randy Lahey

I think the main reason the rating was higher was that more people were home Friday night watching TV (specifically men, bc the NFL was back) than the rest of the summer Friday nights, and a few of them flipped over to Rampage. 

I wouldn’t get that excited about this rating given that NXT has had a couple pop randomly and then go right back down.


----------



## zkorejo

Randy Lahey said:


> I think the main reason the rating was higher was that more people were home Friday night watching TV (specifically men, bc the NFL was back) than the rest of the summer Friday nights, and a few of them flipped over to Rampage.
> 
> I wouldn’t get that excited about this rating given that NXT has had a couple pop randomly and then go right back down.


This sounds like the most likely explanation. 

Bryan advertised also helped I'm sure. Rampage cards have not been must see wrestling in a while. This is the first time in a while I was looking forward to Rampage due to Bryan announcement.


----------



## NathanMayberry

This. Is. Interesting.











I used to wonder why the “sold out” shows did so shit on the secondary market. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Aedubya

Aedubya said:


> -----Anything above 0.80 is ok, Anything above 0.85 is good, anything above 0.9 is v good , anything above 0.95 is brilliant , anything above 1.0 is outstanding-----
> 
> Good rating x #1 = VERY GOOD EVENINGS WORK FOR THE DUBYA!!


BRILLIANT


----------



## Prized Fighter

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560239673339006977
I am dropping this here and backing away. Do with it what you will.


----------



## bdon

Prized Fighter said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560239673339006977
> I am dropping this here and backing away. Do with it what you will.


Other than PPV’s WHEN I AM ACTUALLY HOME, I can’t name the last time I watched anything on an actual television, let alone the live shows.


----------



## BIIIG Nige

NathanMayberry said:


> This. Is. Interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used to wonder why the “sold out” shows did so shit on the secondary market.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Couldn't be faked could it? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔


----------



## bdon

NathanMayberry said:


> This. Is. Interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used to wonder why the “sold out” shows did so shit on the secondary market.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I live in the area. 6 mins from the building. This did not occur.


----------



## 3venflow

bdon said:


> I live in the area. 6 mins from the building. This did not occur.







Even if it did, it'd be nothing new. Complete sell outs are a rarity. He's just trying to put down AEW as per. WrestleTix said the show did 4,168 FWIW, which is nothing amazing but was up on last time they were there. They didn't open the second tier, but filled much of the hardcam area unlike last time (WrestleTix posted a pic comparison of the two shows).


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 957,000
18-49: 0.30

#2 on cable this week (joint in the demo with #1). Down from last week and the lowest demo in some time. Viewership much of muchness for recently.

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

8/10: 972,000 / 0.33 (Quake by the Lake)
8/3: 938,000 / 0.32
7/27: 976,000 / 0.33
7/20: 910,000 / 0.32
7/13: 942,000 / 0.32
7/6: 979,000 / 0.36
6/29: 1,023,000 / 0.36 (Blood & Guts)
6/22: 878,000 / 0.31

They performed well with men, but the Real Housewives show mopped up the F18-49.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Punk comes back, Bryan is in a big match with a supposed future star, Omegas return is leaked and viewership DROPS lol.


Line up the excuses leggo


----------



## Sad Panda

In my opinion that’s gotta be considered a disappointing rating.


----------



## Kentucky34

Bad number.


----------



## BIIIG Nige

RainmakerV2 said:


> Punk comes back, Bryan is in a big match with a supposed future star, Omegas return is leaked and viewership DROPS lol.
> 
> 
> Line up the excuses leggo


As long as there above 925k there doing good


----------



## RainmakerV2

BIIIG Nige said:


> As long as there above 925k there doing good




And they're off!


----------



## Kentucky34

The bounce has gone from AEW's bungee.


----------



## BIIIG Nige

RainmakerV2 said:


> And they're off!


If you disagree the network are happy with them, at least explain why. 😇


----------



## Fearless Viper

Bad number given with the big names on the show.


----------



## BIIIG Nige

Fearless Viper said:


> Bad number given with the big names on the show.


Your assuming viewers are only watching TV, there's more options


----------



## fabi1982

Beaten by Real Housewives with a confrontation of your supposed 2 biggest stars, the „best two wrestlers“ in a 2/3 falls, Kenny coming back…special episode and all…wow…


----------



## Mr316

Damage has been done a long time ago. It is what it is. Tony Khan is an idiot. Remember Martinez vs Purrazzo main eventing Dynamite? Well…there you go. Damage has been done.


----------



## Rankles75

Consistently in the 900k’s, don’t think there will be a big jump or fall in quite some time. Obviously, being on a Wednesday night means they don’t take a hit when the NFL season starts, but I don’t see where an influx of new fans is going to come from either.


----------



## BIIIG Nige

Rankles75 said:


> I don’t see where an influx of new fans is going to come from either.


Has Tony said that's his goal? You don't believe in giving the fans what they want and delivering great matches that we can all watch?


----------



## fabi1982

BIIIG Nige said:


> Has Tony said that's his goal? You don't believe in giving the fans what they want and delivering great matches that we can all watch?


Which alt are you btw?


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> Beaten by Real Housewives with a confrontation of your supposed 2 biggest stars, the „best two wrestlers“ in a 2/3 falls, Kenny coming back…special episode and all…wow…


The show doesn’t feel like an alternative anymore. Everyone got their WWE show booked by someone other than Vince, so that they can see their favorites pushed.

I have watched the last 2-3 weeks, but prior to that, I hadn’t watched a full episode in a long ass time. And why should I? I don’t like WWE, so why would I watch a show that is littered with WWE guys doing WWE-style feuds and matches. The Jericho-Mox match killed me last week with the Hulk-a-Moxley bullshit. Now this week we have Punk saying fuck a script, I’m going to do and say whatever the fuck I want to stay over on Moxley, who is now the bigger star.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

One day i’ll find that one fucking Nielson household who keeps changing the channel and fuck him up!


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> One day i’ll find that one fucking Nielson household who keeps changing the channel and fuck him up!


Man having Garcia beat Bryan sure was worth it. People filed in like crazy for that big grudge match!


----------



## Rankles75

BIIIG Nige said:


> Has Tony said that's his goal? You don't believe in giving the fans what they want and delivering great matches that we can all watch?


Would be pretty dumb if he didn’t want to grow the fanbase though, wouldn’t he? There’s a lot of lapsed WWE fans out there who are disillusioned with the current product. I’m not saying AEW can massively boost its viewership, but something along the lines of 1.2m should be achievable and certainly should be the kind of numbers they should be aiming for imo.

900k isn’t terrible by any means, but even as someone for whom AEW doesn’t appeal at all, I’m a bit surprised it’s not higher by this point.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Man having Garcia beat Bryan sure was worth it. People filed in like crazy for that big grudge match!


Okay, watch the 2 out of 3 Falls match with Bryan Danielson vs Daniel Garcia having the highest rated quarterly segments of the night then.

Plus, that Dynamite crowd last night were going crazy Garcia having the best performance of his career so far too.

He *is* a future star, and he was the right young guy to beat Bryan too btw.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> The show doesn’t feel like an alternative anymore. Everyone got their WWE show booked by someone other than Vince, so that they can see their favorites pushed.
> 
> I have watched the last 2-3 weeks, but prior to that, I hadn’t watched a full episode in a long ass time. And why should I? I don’t like WWE, so why would I watch a show that is littered with WWE guys doing WWE-style feuds and matches. The Jericho-Mox match killed me last week with the Hulk-a-Moxley bullshit. Now this week we have Punk saying fuck a script, I’m going to do and say whatever the fuck I want to stay over on Moxley, who is now the bigger star.


Nothing to add here.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> Okay, watch the 2 out of 3 Falls match with Bryan Danielson vs Daniel Garcia having the highest rated quarterly segments of the night then.
> 
> Plus, that Dynamite crowd last night were going crazy Garcia having the best performance of his career so far too.
> 
> He *is* a future star, and he was the right young guy to beat Bryan too btw.


Hey it ain't my fault they put people like Kyllin King or whoever the fuck on the show every week at 930 and they lose 100k everytime. Talk to the booker of the year about that.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*It's over. If they can't hit a million with a fantastic show like that and Kenny's long awaited return heavily hinted, they've hit their ceiling. 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560358551599579137*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

They’re really just stuck in this range. The rumors/heavily hinted Omega returning, plus Punk’s return last week didn’t seem to do much. Next week is the big Punk/Moxley title unification match. Needs to better than the usual, or that’s a really bad sign.


----------



## fabi1982

Remember them getting 1.2m for each return of Punk and Danielson. Now they cant even get 1m with both on the show…


----------



## bdon

You may or may not like The Elite, but they are the alternative. Without them, AEW goes the way of TNA.


----------



## bdon

bdon said:


> You may or may not like The Elite, but they are the alternative. Without them, AEW goes the way of TNA.


I remember The Elite carrying the ratings pretty well. I do remember that. Just prior to TK making the show revolve around The WWE Rejects.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Hey it ain't my fault they put people like Kyllin King or whoever the fuck on the show every week at 930 and they lose 100k everytime. Talk to the booker of the year about that.


Tony Khan IS the booker of the year though, and he deserves to win it in 2022 too


----------



## Joe Gill

not surprised there was no bump.... no one gives a shit about a long daniel garcia match.... kenny omega was never a draw to begin with....only big thing was punk moxley segment...but they started the show with it....so why even watch the rest of the show if you are a casual fan?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> Man having Garcia beat Bryan sure was worth it. People filed in like crazy for that big grudge match!


they sure did

it would’ve been 750k otherwise

GOATcia confirmed


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*@Prized Fighter If you have any more questions about why I frequently say wrestling does not draw, look no further than this episode. We saw what was quite possibly the greatest pure wrestling match on AEW television and LOST ratings week to week. I rest my case.*


----------



## NathanMayberry

RainmakerV2 said:


> Punk comes back, Bryan is in a big match with a supposed future star, Omegas return is leaked and viewership DROPS lol.
> 
> 
> Line up the excuses leggo


Well you see homez that Mexican soccer match that started at 9:58 is tough competition 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

Watch the 2/3 Falls match with Bryan Danielson vs Daniel Garcia and the trios main event with La Faccion Ingobernable vs The Elite actually having the highest quarterly segments of the night (which therefore proves that good wrestling *does* draw well with the audience) 

Edit:

Raw under Triple H's influence is living proof that a show with good wrestling clearly draws more.


----------



## Joe Gill

DammitChrist said:


> Watch the 2/3 Falls match with Bryan Danielson vs Daniel Garcia and the trios main event with La Faccion Ingobernable vs The Elite actually having the highest quarterly segments of the night (which therefore proves that good wrestling *does* draw well with the audience)
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Raw under Triple H's influence is living proof that a show with good wrestling clearly draws more.


I am willing to bet you that the garcia match ended with less viewers than it began with. The loser cant post on this forum for a week? wanna take that bet?


----------



## Top bins

It's sad that AEW can't grow its audience. They have the roster and finances why can't they get at least half of WWE's audience. It's time for a refresh. Tony Khan needs to hire a booker with experience and he can move upstairs as just the CEO. 

I do feel like Tony Khan has taken AEW from a booking perspective as far as he can. And it's time for someone else to be given 2 years to grow the audience.


----------



## DammitChrist

Joe Gill said:


> I am willing to bet you that the garcia match ended with less viewers than it began with. The loser cant post on this forum for a week? wanna take that bet?


I can guarantee that the finish to that match wasn't even close to being the lowest quarterly segment of the night.


----------



## TD Stinger

The thing with the ratings recently is that no matter what they do, they get .30-.33. And this is usually good enough for them to win the night or come in 2nd place. But for people thinking they would compete with Raw, that’s a pipe dream as Raw is mostly crushing it’s competition right now.

And the thing is that we’re in the Summer right now where things are easier. They’ll have much stiffer competition in the Fall.




LifeInCattleClass said:


> One day i’ll find that one fucking Nielson household who keeps changing the channel and fuck him up!


----------



## RapShepard

BIIIG Nige said:


> As long as there above 925k there doing good





BIIIG Nige said:


> If you disagree the network are happy with them, at least explain why. [emoji56]





BIIIG Nige said:


> Your assuming viewers are only watching TV, there's more options





BIIIG Nige said:


> Has Tony said that's his goal? You don't believe in giving the fans what they want and delivering great matches that we can all watch?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


>


----------



## NathanMayberry

Rankles75 said:


> Would be pretty dumb if he didn’t want to grow the fanbase though, wouldn’t he? There’s a lot of lapsed WWE fans out there who are disillusioned with the current product. I’m not saying AEW can massively boost its viewership, but something along the lines of 1.2m should be achievable and certainly should be the kind of numbers they should be aiming for imo.
> 
> 900k isn’t terrible by any means, but even as someone for whom AEW doesn’t appeal at all, I’m a bit surprised it’s not higher by this point.


I’m not… 

The biggest long term draw in wrestling has always been the story and AEW has been shit at those from the start. 

Tiny blows his load faster than a teenager in his sock with almost every story he has and not just that, his obsession with always doing that often defies logic and sense. So literally everything is rushed… 

His idea of long term story telling is basically I will make this feud last a long time or will tie in some vague reference that a small percentage of the people will know. 

People gave AEW a chance and now they’ve found their base which is more than likely being boosted by the large lead in Big Bang theory gives it every week. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TD Stinger

RapShepard said:


>





LifeInCattleClass said:


> View attachment 130870


----------



## NathanMayberry

DammitChrist said:


> Okay, watch the 2 out of 3 Falls match with Bryan Danielson vs Daniel Garcia having the highest rated quarterly segments of the night then.
> 
> Plus, that Dynamite crowd last night were going crazy Garcia having the best performance of his career so far too.
> 
> He *is* a future star, and he was the right young guy to beat Bryan too btw.


Just like blood and themed shows, eventually people are gonna get tired of completely underwhelming dudes being called future stars.. 

This is probably the biggest reason why none of the shit that brought in viewers in the past is working today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RLT1981

well we now know CM Punk is not a draw his return still could not get them back over a million .

MJF is there only hope now if he can't do it AEW is fucked and its all Tony's fault for his crap booking.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TD Stinger said:


> View attachment 130871


----------



## The XL 2

RainmakerV2 said:


> Punk comes back, Bryan is in a big match with a supposed future star, Omegas return is leaked and viewership DROPS lol.
> 
> 
> Line up the excuses leggo


None of those guys are real stars and Tony Khan is Herb Abrams reincarnated. 

People seem to forget that Punk was an anti draw in WWE, his TV segments used to do horribly and he never did well on PPV, and Bryan only drew for a few month time period when feuding with much bigger stars than he was in Batista, HHH and Orton


----------



## NathanMayberry

RapShepard said:


>


I bet he’s the dude who posted this last night










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rankles75

NathanMayberry said:


> I’m not…
> 
> The biggest long term draw in wrestling has always been the story and AEW has been shit at those from the start.
> 
> Tiny blows his load faster than a teenager in his sock with almost every story he has and not just that, his obsession with always doing that often defies logic and sense. So literally everything is rushed…
> 
> His idea of long term story telling is basically I will make this feud last a long time or will tie in some vague reference that a small percentage of the people will know.
> 
> People gave AEW a chance and now they’ve found their base which is more than likely being boosted by the large lead in Big Bang theory gives it every week.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, Tony is definitely the main problem imo. Can’t really fault his enthusiasm, but he really needs to get people in who know more about the business.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> View attachment 130870


Punk, Bryan, Moxley, Jericho, and Omega on 1 show


----------



## BIIIG Nige

The XL 2 said:


> None of those guys are real stars and Tony Khan is Herb Abrams reincarnated.
> 
> People seem to forget that Punk was an anti draw in WWE, his TV segments used to do horribly and he never did well on PPV, and Bryan only drew for a few month time period when feuding with much bigger stars than he was in Batista, HHH and Orton


Deffo the most overated world champion WWE had is old Punk.


----------



## The XL 2

Another elephant in the room is that this style of wrestling has never really drawn on a national level. A bunch of smaller bland indy guys working 20-40 minute matches trading spots nonstop has never really generated any sort of interest on a national stage before, AEW always had a very apparent ceiling.


----------



## RapShepard

TD Stinger said:


> View attachment 130871


_smacks lips_ me and @LifeInCattleClass are fucking amazing. Our presence is considered a present in many countries in this world.


----------



## Jbardo37

It’s a hugely disappointing number, there’s no getting away from that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Punk, Bryan, Moxley, Jericho, and Omega on 1 show


just shows you how bad taste has really gotten

its a sad state of affairs - peeps would rather dickride the fed than watch real rasslin’

#SAD #EXCUSES


----------



## RapShepard

NathanMayberry said:


> I bet he’s the dude who posted this last night
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Forum shit talk aside, it really is fucking sad some folk on either side feel the need to harass folk about what wrestling show they like. 

Like I liken this environment more to a sports bar where everybody's talking relatively friendly shit. But to just randomly harass folk online is wild


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jokes aside

if i was Khan, i would quietly sharpen my pencil and work out my ‘cost per 0.01 rating’ for last nights’ show vs the cost per 0.01 without CM, Danielson, Mox, Jericho

cause if you are getting the same rating with just the Elite, Jungleboy, Wardlow… then take the profit and run

ps) for selfish reasons, i would like him to keep Danielson around


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Looks like the Real Housewives of Bitcherly Hills got ahold of Phillip Brooks and fucked that dude up. Damn.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Surprisingly lower than expected. Not really sure what else to say.

Still found the show awesome for the most part though.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> just shows you how bad taste has really gotten
> 
> its a sad state of affairs - peeps would rather dickride the fed than watch real rasslin’
> 
> #SAD #EXCUSES
> 
> View attachment 130873


1. Inaccurate a cock that big would be way more veiny

2. What pervert machinist was sitting around thinking

"Fuck a bull imma get all these drunk bitches to ride a big dick"


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> 1. Inaccurate a cock that big would be way more veiny


I’m about to go shower - i’ll let you know if that theory is true


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m about to go shower - i’ll let you know if that theory is true




Jeeeeeeeezus


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m about to go shower - i’ll let you know if that theory is true


This fucking guy


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Wish it were better. They are just bouncing around in the margin of error each week because the numbers are fairly static now.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

fabi1982 said:


> Remember them getting 1.2m for each return of Punk and Danielson. Now they cant even get 1m with both on the show…


Tiny is totally booker of the year you guys


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Jokes aside
> 
> if i was Khan, i would quietly sharpen my pencil and work out my ‘cost per 0.01 rating’ for last nights’ show vs the cost per 0.01 without CM, Danielson, Mox, Jericho
> 
> cause if you are getting the same rating with just the Elite, Jungleboy, Wardlow… then take the profit and run
> 
> ps) for selfish reasons, i would like him to keep Danielson around


Bingo.

The WWE Rejects were supposed to bring crowds, not run them off, which is exactly what happened the minute the show stopped being centered around The Elite.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

BIIIG Nige said:


> Your assuming viewers are only watching TV, there's more options


Nobody assumes that people are only watching the show in TV. However, the TV viewership is something that TV networks look at when deciding things like how much money they are willing to pay for rights, if they even want to keep shows on TV etc.


----------



## DammitChrist

Lenny Leonard said:


> Tiny is totally booker of the year you guys


His name is *Tony* (Khan), and yes, he is the booker of the year atm since you don't seem to be familiar with this


----------



## NathanMayberry

LifeInCattleClass said:


> just shows you how bad taste has really gotten
> 
> its a sad state of affairs - peeps would rather dickride the fed than watch real rasslin’
> 
> #SAD #EXCUSES
> 
> View attachment 130873


I don’t know how else to put it for you guys… people don’t want tor watch skinny and short guys they don’t know or give a fuck about fake fight. Those guys aren’t brought up to the level of the stars they bring the stars and everyone down with them.

AEW has a big enough roster to never have to feature Indy garbage yet they keep doing it. Eg. They have wardlow and mjf, split them up and now both aren’t on tv regularly.. why? I can already see the excuses being made and people not remembering his promo being told they are at fault for not caring about a guy who hasn’t been on tv for 9 weeks and counting. 

This is the august peak. The new seasons are starting and there’s gonna be a lot more to watch on tv than housewives and news. In the coming months ratings are going even lower.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> I don’t know how else to put it for you guys… people don’t want tor watch skinny and short guys they don’t know or give a fuck about fake fight. Those guys aren’t brought up to the level of the stars they bring the stars and everyone down with them.
> 
> AEW has a big enough roster to never have to feature Indy garbage yet they keep doing it. Eg. They have wardlow and mjf, split them up and now both aren’t on tv regularly.. why? I can already see the excuses being made and people not remembering his promo being told they are at fault for not caring about a guy who hasn’t been on tv for 9 weeks and counting.
> 
> This is the august peak. The new seasons are starting and there’s gonna be a lot more to watch on tv than housewives and news. In the coming months ratings are going even lower.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nah, they are continuing to gradually grow out their overall audience each year


----------



## BIIIG Nige

NathanMayberry said:


> I don’t know how else to put it for you guys… people don’t want tor watch skinny and short guys they don’t know or give a fuck about fake fight. Those guys aren’t brought up to the level of the stars they bring the stars and everyone down with them.
> 
> AEW has a big enough roster to never have to feature Indy garbage yet they keep doing it. Eg. They have wardlow and mjf, split them up and now both aren’t on tv regularly.. why? I can already see the excuses being made and people not remembering his promo being told they are at fault for not caring about a guy who hasn’t been on tv for 9 weeks and counting.
> 
> This is the august peak. The new seasons are starting and there’s gonna be a lot more to watch on tv than housewives and news. In the coming months ratings are going even lower.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Long as the network are happy with them it doesn't matter. TV ratings aren't what they usesd to be in the 90's.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Ratings are stagnant. They may never hit a million again. 

All these white vanilla midgets dont draw. Anyone that cares about Omega returning was already watching to begin with.


----------



## BIIIG Nige

CenaBoy4Life said:


> Ratings are stagnant. They may never hit a million again.
> 
> All these white vanilla midgets dont draw. Anyone that cares about Omega returning was already watching to begin with.


But I'd prefer a good product and good matches, what appeals to a mass audience can be detrimental to the wrestling so. Its not trying to be sports entertainment right


----------



## RainmakerV2

BIIIG Nige said:


> But I'd prefer a good product and good matches, what appeals to a mass audience can be detrimental to the wrestling so. Its not trying to be sports entertainment right




Someone come get their alt


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

bdon said:


> I remember The Elite carrying the ratings pretty well. I do remember that. Just prior to TK making the show revolve around The WWE Rejects.


Exactly, when the elite were the main focus the show's had great ratings, when Tony started focusing on WWE rejects (Jericho and Mox aside) the viewership started to tank. The first two years were amazing TV. I will say that last nights show was dope though. That's probably what Omega was alluding to in his promo last night.


----------



## the_hound

BIIIG Nige said:


> But I'd prefer a good product and good matches, what appeals to a mass audience can be detrimental to the wrestling so. Its not trying to be sports entertainment right


where's the mass audience you speak of?


----------



## bdon

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> Exactly, when the elite were the main focus the show's had great ratings, when Tony started focusing on WWE rejects (Jericho and Mox aside) the viewership started to tank. The first two years were amazing TV. I will say that last nights show was dope though. That's probably what Omega was alluding to in his promo last night.


That promo felt like Kenny drawing a line in the sand, reclaiming what is theirs, and reminding everyone the kind of show that they will be getting.

The line about not being fake or a tribute act now seems like a shot across the bow of Punk.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

bdon said:


> That promo felt like Kenny drawing a line in the sand, reclaiming what is theirs, and reminding everyone the kind of show that they will be getting.
> 
> The line about not being fake or a tribute act now seems like a shot across the bow of Punk.


Yeah, I am pretty sure the elite don't like Punk


----------



## Seafort

bdon said:


> The show doesn’t feel like an alternative anymore. Everyone got their WWE show booked by someone other than Vince, so that they can see their favorites pushed.
> 
> I have watched the last 2-3 weeks, but prior to that, I hadn’t watched a full episode in a long ass time. And why should I? I don’t like WWE, so why would I watch a show that is littered with WWE guys doing WWE-style feuds and matches. The Jericho-Mox match killed me last week with the Hulk-a-Moxley bullshit. Now this week we have Punk saying fuck a script, I’m going to do and say whatever the fuck I want to stay over on Moxley, who is now the bigger star.


That's their challenge. 

ECW had it very easy in 1994-mid 1996 being an alternative to a world of Sharks, Doinks, Yetis, TL Hoppers, and Dungeon of Dooms. Once the nWo and Attitude Era kicked off, they couldn't differentiate themselves successfully anymore and they began to resemble not something different, but rather something minor league.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Cody a genius for leaving lmao


----------



## The real Axel

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> Cody a genius for leaving lmao


Yeah the ship is truly sinking now. Compare Cody's return to WWE to Kenny's return yesterday. I know where I'd rather be.


----------



## DammitChrist

The real Axel said:


> Yeah the ship is truly sinking now. Compare Cody's return to WWE to Kenny's return yesterday. I know where I'd rather be.


Yep, the answer to that last part is AEW


----------



## CovidFan

Disappointing number. No amount of eyeroll or laughing emojis will change that fact.


----------



## Boldgerg

If they want bigger numbers then the likes of Wardlow should be front and centre.

But no, when he was extremely hot, they cooled him off and have basically kept him off TV for a month.


----------



## Mister Sinister

If you put on bullshit booking, you get bullshit numbers. Hire real creative people who live to write instead of someone who throws a card together while taking a morning shit between brushing and showering.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NathanMayberry said:


> This. Is. Interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used to wonder why the “sold out” shows did so shit on the secondary market.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's a work, brutha.



The Legit Lioness said:


> *It's over. If they can't hit a million with a fantastic show like that and Kenny's long awaited return heavily hinted, they've hit their ceiling.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560358551599579137*


Yeah this is their ceiling and has been for a while now (12 months? More?)



Joe Gill said:


> not surprised there was no bump.... no one gives a shit about a long daniel garcia match.... kenny omega was never a draw to begin with....only big thing was punk moxley segment...but they started the show with it....so why even watch the rest of the show if you are a casual fan?


Kenny is a draw but as some people said in the last few days the people who love Kenny are already watching AEW every week.



Top bins said:


> It's sad that AEW can't grow its audience. They have the roster and finances why can't they get at least half of WWE's audience. It's time for a refresh. Tony Khan needs to hire a booker with experience and he can move upstairs as just the CEO.
> 
> I do feel like Tony Khan has taken AEW from a booking perspective as far as he can. And it's time for someone else to be given 2 years to grow the audience.


How are they going to grow it? I'm not saying you're wrong but moreso that AEW has blown their opportunity.

For me I think they've had a handful of chances that being the debut show (Flop), around the time Sting debuted (Also a flop), Punk's debut (Flop), Bryan's debut (Flop) and maybe a couple of others that I'm forgetting.

Every time this casual audience or non AEW audience or whatever you want to call them has tuned in they've been let down so unless AEW can land a huge signing they aren't going to get that opportunity to hook them again.


----------



## IronMan8

Seafort said:


> That's their challenge.
> 
> ECW had it very easy in 1994-mid 1996 being an alternative to a world of Sharks, Doinks, Yetis, TL Hoppers, and Dungeon of Dooms. Once the nWo and Attitude Era kicked off, they couldn't differentiate themselves successfully anymore and they began to resemble not something different, but rather something minor league.


Agree, AEW has less differentiation than a month ago. I thought this week's show was A+ quality, but the rating didn't move.

The two major factors that I like most about AEW are the freer promos and superior wrestling. It sounds like WWE is doing freer promos (not as much, but an improvement) and longer matches (still not as good, but less differentiation).

Does AEW change their identity or double down on their current identity to increase the difference between the two products? They had to pick one of these 2 possible pathways. Non-negotiable. Unless they do what WWE does on a bigger visual stage to make WWE look smaller by comparison, which isn't realistic.

I'd double down on the quality of their wrestling by hard selling themselves as the one, true "elite" league in professional wrestling. You haven't made it until you've proven yourself in All Elite Wrestling, which offers a higher caliber of competition than the entertainment leagues. They don't sell that idea even though it's embedded in their name.

"Elite" wrestling will continue to play into AEW's competitive advantage, since WWE will always have 5 hours per week and therefore be prone to filler WWE-style matches.

To me, WWE has felt like the minor league over the past 1-2 years because they're putting out a lower quality show, and over time, I expect popularity to shift towards the better product.

So, I view AEW as the big leagues. But if that's not going to be true under Paul's booking due to reduced differentiation, then AEW is lesser than unless they sharpen up their identity to continue to differentiate themselves as the clearly superior product.

AEW is still a superior product IMO, but the TV format is still riddled with simple mistakes that haven't been improved upon (or very slowly get improved upon), so now that the gap in quality has been reduced, I think it's imperative for AEW to fine tune these many small flaws in their formatting and booking to deliver the same exact show but with the polish that less hardcore fans would expect.

That ultimately pressures TK to work full-time on AEW, which I hope will happen, as it's hard to imagine any part-time boss dethroning the full-time Paul-driven WWE.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

IronMan8 said:


> Agree, AEW has less differentiation than a month ago. I thought this week's show was A+ quality, but the rating didn't move.
> 
> The two major factors that I like most about AEW are the freer promos and superior wrestling. It sounds like WWE is doing freer promos (not as much, but an improvement) and longer matches (still not as good, but less differentiation).
> 
> Does AEW change their identity or double down on their current identity to increase the difference between the two products? They had to pick one of these 2 possible pathways. Non-negotiable. Unless they do what WWE does on a bigger visual stage to make WWE look smaller by comparison, which isn't realistic.
> 
> I'd double down on the quality of their wrestling by hard selling themselves as the one, true "elite" league in professional wrestling. You haven't made it until you've proven yourself in All Elite Wrestling, which offers a higher caliber of competition than the entertainment leagues. They don't sell that idea even though it's embedded in their name.
> 
> "Elite" wrestling will continue to play into AEW's competitive advantage, since WWE will always have 5 hours per week and therefore be prone to filler WWE-style matches.
> 
> To me, WWE has felt like the minor league over the past 1-2 years because they're putting out a lower quality show, and over time, I expect popularity to shift towards the better product.
> 
> So, I view AEW as the big leagues. But if that's not going to be true under Paul's booking due to reduced differentiation, then AEW is lesser than unless they sharpen up their identity to continue to differentiate themselves as the clearly superior product.
> 
> AEW is still a superior product IMO, but the TV format is still riddled with simple mistakes that haven't been improved upon (or very slowly get improved upon), so now that the gap in quality has been reduced, I think it's imperative for AEW to fine tune these many small flaws in their formatting and booking to deliver the same exact show but with the polish that less hardcore fans would expect.
> 
> That ultimately pressures TK to work full-time on AEW, which I hope will happen, as it's hard to imagine any part-time boss dethroning the full-time Paul-driven WWE.


AEW might have the better show (I don't watch much of either product) but their product isn't appealing to the masses at all which is why you probably haven't seen anything in terms of growth or the rating moving.

The audience that does watch AEW is out there and for that audience AEW is great but it will never appeal to the average joe that just likes wrestling. Even myself as a lover of wrestling rolled my eyes yesterday when Justin Roberts announced Kenny Omega's favourite candy bar in his big return announcement.

AEW quite frankly has too much wrestling. Dynamite had 53 minutes and 50 seconds of wrestling on their last episode whilst the 3 hour episode of RAW had 74 minutes and 43 seconds of wrestling. For comparison sake the 2 hour Smackdown had 34 minutes and 20 seconds of in ring action.

I see AEW had a 26 minute opener yesterday, that's insane and booking 101 dictates that an opener should never be that long...


----------



## Top bins

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's a work, brutha.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah this is their ceiling and has been for a while now (12 months? More?)
> 
> 
> 
> Kenny is a draw but as some people said in the last few days the people who love Kenny are already watching AEW every week.
> 
> 
> 
> How are they going to grow it? I'm not saying you're wrong but moreso that AEW has blown their opportunity.
> 
> For me I think they've had a handful of chances that being the debut show (Flop), around the time Sting debuted (Also a flop), Punk's debut (Flop), Bryan's debut (Flop) and maybe a couple of others that I'm forgetting.
> 
> Every time this casual audience or non AEW audience or whatever you want to call them has tuned in they've been let down so unless AEW can land a huge signing they aren't going to get that opportunity to hook them again.


I'm not sure Chippah that's the question. Maybe an attitude style announcement by Tony Khan a press release that he's given up all creative duties to the new person. 

I definitely think though rotating the roster is an awful idea. Sometimes you have to wait 4-5 weeks to see Miro if he's one of your favourites. So if the roster trimmed down that's an idea and you'd cut the comedy out. 

With WWE now under new creative AEW is probably no longer the wrestling show. It's no longer an alternative. They need to HAMMER home the wins/losses as in WWE they don't track those, that's a way of being different. And having stats like in sports stats how many kick outs for a finish , and potentially ring control how long was a guy on offence for, be a bit more UFC like with the stats. 

They can no longer be an alternative with what they are doing, because Raw is putting on longer matches and not with Drew McIntyre vs Akira Tozawa for 15 minutes, like they did with Wardlow and Cassidy. 

Imagine if we had to wait 4-5 weeks to see Stone Cold on TV or in action?

The matches there's too many gimmick matches every week and it rarely blows off a feud. Less is more. 

And the long term storytelling Tony booked Adam Page incorrectly as a drunk and then he had the most underwhelming title reign ever. 

Sometimes you have to change plans on the fly. Vince did it too much and Tony sticks with his original vision. 

I do think personally with better booking AEW could have the potential to have almost the same viewership as RAW. 

They also announce everything that's going to happen on the show a week in advance. So there's no surprise factor on the show. All the matches have been announced. 

Can only recall two matches that's happened as impromptu in almost 3 years which was cm punk and Moxley vs FTR and hook vs Ricky Starks. 

But I do agree I think Tony's stubbornness has cost the company a chance of growing.


----------



## fabi1982

RainmakerV2 said:


> Someone come get their alt


Can someone of the mods @Firefromthegods look into this, really writes familiar.


----------



## Not Lying

IMO the show didn’t have time enough “hype” and it wasn’t an ideal to follow up Punk’s return.
Like legit, Garcia is still a rookie and we get good wrestling so much recently, the match was just there.
Also wtf was promoting Toni Storm vs King???
Did they even hype Punk’s interview?
And obviously not one more other than the 950K already watching gives a fuck about Omega; not a single person this number. Rush and Andrade too there, lol. 

next week’s show is rushed too and i’m not keeping my hopes up. Punk/Mox should be have been announced in a bigger way.


----------



## CM Buck

fabi1982 said:


> Can someone of the mods @Firefromthegods look into this, really writes familiar.


He is on our radar


----------



## Top bins

Top bins said:


> I'm not sure Chippah that's the question. Maybe an attitude style announcement by Tony Khan a press release that he's given up all creative duties to the new person.
> 
> I definitely think though rotating the roster is an awful idea. Sometimes you have to wait 4-5 weeks to see Miro if he's one of your favourites. So if the roster trimmed down that's an idea and you'd cut the comedy out.
> 
> With WWE now under new creative AEW is probably no longer the wrestling show. It's no longer an alternative. They need to HAMMER home the wins/losses as in WWE they don't track those, that's a way of being different. And having stats like in sports stats how many kick outs for a finish , and potentially ring control how long was a guy on offence for, be a bit more UFC like with the stats.
> 
> They can no longer be an alternative with what they are doing, because Raw is putting on longer matches and not with Drew McIntyre vs Akira Tozawa for 15 minutes, like they did with Wardlow and Cassidy.
> 
> Imagine if we had to wait 4-5 weeks to see Stone Cold on TV or in action?
> 
> The matches there's too many gimmick matches every week and it rarely blows off a feud. Less is more.
> 
> And the long term storytelling Tony booked Adam Page incorrectly as a drunk and then he had the most underwhelming title reign ever.
> 
> Sometimes you have to change plans on the fly. Vince did it too much and Tony sticks with his original vision.
> 
> I do think personally with better booking AEW could have the potential to have almost the same viewership as RAW.
> 
> They also announce everything that's going to happen on the show a week in advance. So there's no surprise factor on the show. All the matches have been announced.
> 
> Can only recall two matches that's happened as impromptu in almost 3 years which was cm punk and Moxley vs FTR and hook vs Ricky Starks.
> 
> But I do agree I think Tony's stubbornness has cost the company a chance of growing.


Dammit Christ- any suggestions on how to grow the audience?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Top bins said:


> Dammit Christ- any suggestions on how to grow the audience?


rebrand it WWE and it will get 2m by next wed


----------



## Aedubya

Another week, another negative led story on this from WrestleInc


----------



## Aedubya

Why have all these new trolls appeared on here slating this too?


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Someone needs to remake this classic for AEW


----------



## IronMan8

There's a qualitative aspect to AEW's ratings that I'm not sure how to look at.

A number of 950k is the quantity. Let's say that's an enthusiastic 950k, and this is different to a 950K of habitual, bored viewers. We can't tell the difference in perceived quality by looking at the rating.

So, assuming AEW does lean towards the enthusiastic end of the quality spectrum with the fans they do have ("the super-served million"), what is the value in that? Is there a better measure for it than TV ratings? Or is that value irrelevant unless you cross a threshold measured by a viewer not tuning in the next week?

These aren't leading questions, I'm just curious what people think about the product quality aspect of a rating.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

IronMan8 said:


> There's a qualitative aspect to AEW's ratings that I'm not sure how to look at.
> 
> A number of 950k is the quantity. Let's say that's an enthusiastic 950k, and this is different to a 950K of habitual, bored viewers. We can't tell the difference in perceived quality by looking at the rating.
> 
> So, assuming AEW does lean towards the enthusiastic end of the quality spectrum with the fans they do have ("the super-served million"), what is the value in that? Is there a better measure for it than TV ratings? Or is that value irrelevant unless you cross a threshold measured by a viewer not tuning in the next week?
> 
> These aren't leading questions, I'm just curious what people think about the product quality aspect of a rating.


butts in seats and merch sales usually tell the rest of the story

as long as they sell 4k - 8k of tix a week, it’ll be golden

ppv sales as well of course

another one which we’ll never really know is ‘attentiveness and engagement during picture in picture’

if they can have viewers actually watch the ads during this time, there is some quantifiable value


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's a work, brutha.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah this is their ceiling and has been for a while now (12 months? More?)
> 
> 
> 
> Kenny is a draw but as some people said in the last few days the people who love Kenny are already watching AEW every week.
> 
> 
> 
> How are they going to grow it? I'm not saying you're wrong but moreso that AEW has blown their opportunity.
> 
> For me I think they've had a handful of chances that being the debut show (Flop), around the time Sting debuted (Also a flop), Punk's debut (Flop), Bryan's debut (Flop) and maybe a couple of others that I'm forgetting.
> 
> Every time this casual audience or non AEW audience or whatever you want to call them has tuned in they've been let down so unless AEW can land a huge signing they aren't going to get that opportunity to hook them again.


They still have to do something effective with a big signing. AEW's pattern of making a big signing and then turning that person into just another face in the crowd prohibits any major signing from making the type of long term impact they want it make.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

MonkasaurusRex said:


> They still have to do something effective with a big signing. AEW's pattern of making a big signing and then turning that person into just another face in the crowd prohibits any major signing from making the type of long term impact they want it make.


100% agree.


----------



## BIIIG Nige

MonkasaurusRex said:


> They still have to do something effective with a big signing. AEW's pattern of making a big signing and then turning that person into just another face in the crowd prohibits any major signing from making the type of long term impact they want it make.


They don't want to rush pushing everyone. Aew is long term booking until that star can make it over the line. Look how slow Punks progression was. Look at Austin Theory someone who may be champ and only been around a short while in WWE.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

BIIIG Nige said:


> They don't want to rush pushing everyone. Aew is long term booking until that star can make it over the line. Look how slow Punks progression was. Look at Austin Theory someone who may be champ and only been around a short while in WWE.


And look at the relative lack of general interest there is in CM Punk right now as opposed to when he arrived n AEW last year. They had people tuning in for CM Punk and they let him become as close to "just another guy" as possible before doing something meaningful with him. Also comparing CM Punk to Austin Theory is less than fair. Theory is a guy whose "brand" is still being built. 

I never said EVERYONE has to be pushed immediately but if you make a "monumental" signing you have to capitalize on the general interest increase before the novelty wears off. Say there were able to sign John Cena, you don't have him wrestle 10 minute back and forth matches with undercard guys for two months with no feud for him.

Eric Bischoff didn't say "hey we signed Hall and Nash two of WWE's top guys now let's have them wrestle The State Patrol for two months while we figure out what to do with them."

You don't have to make everyone a title contender or champion out the gate but when you sign a guy with the "name value" of a CM Punk you should be doing everything possible to make sure he's a BIG part of your product


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*The heatless Toni Storm match killed the show. 100,000 people left and came back to see Kenny, then left again when they realized they had to watch The Young Bucks wrestle.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560603152143253504*


----------



## BIIIG Nige

The Legit Lioness said:


> *The heatless Toni Storm match killed the show. 100,000 people left and came back to see Kenny, then left again when they realized they had to watch The Young Bucks wrestle.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560603152143253504*


Punk and Bryan the real draws here, that's not that far away from Punks debut, say 8% lower? It's a tiny margin.


----------



## Not Lying

Seeing them throw Toni Storm (who has zero momentum) vs noname jobber on the show of Punk’s return pissed me off. 
Who books this shit? Who legit though this would hold viewers interest?
A blind fish could have predicted a drop for this match.

FFS use Jade or Britt, or do a segment between Toni/Rosa instead of a heatless match

But the funniest shit, How about them 100K fans tuning out after seeing Omega 😂🤣 couldn’t even stay till the end of his return match.

I am SO GLAD we’re not getting FTR/Bucks for this 6man crap.


----------



## Dr. Middy

I never understood why they keep throwing the women out at the exact same time because this will keep happening if you do. Do more matches like that great tag we got in the first hour the week prior.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> Seeing them throw Toni Storm (who has zero momentum) vs noname jobber on the show of Punk’s return pissed me off.
> Who books this shit? Who legit though this would hold viewers interest?
> A blind fish could have predicted a drop for this match.
> 
> FFS use Jade or Britt, or do a segment between Toni/Rosa instead of a heatless match


*Let's talk about it. 
*Heatless match
*Random opponent off the street
*Immediate picture in picture throughout more than half the match
*Glorified squash 

What's the incentive for ANYONE to stay for this? Unless you're a super Toni Storm fan, you have no reason to give a shit about any of this. Meanwhile, Jade vs Athena, which is literally the only women's program with any kind of momentum, got no air time whatsoever.*


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

BIIIG Nige said:


> Punk and Bryan the real draws here, that's not that far away from Punks debut, say 8% lower? It's a tiny margin.


If you're going to use the math to make a point you have to do ALL of the math.

Punk's debut segment did 1.34 million total and 842k in the demo(on Rampage) as opposed to 1.04 and 437k in the demo from Dynamite this week. That is indeed a roughly 8% decrease in overall viewership but it's also a 48% decrease in the 18-49 demo that AEW loves touting and considering that Dynamite airs in peak prime as opposed to Rampage airing in late prime time it should be doing BETTER numbers. That said ANY decrease is technically a bad sign because Punk was supposed be a guy that boosted numbers for the company. Even his specific quarters are down over time.


----------



## BIIIG Nige

The Definition of Technician said:


> Seeing them throw Toni Storm (who has zero momentum) vs noname jobber on the show


When we saw Super Crazy on the same show as Austin and Rock in 1997 did you say the same thing?


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

BIIIG Nige said:


> When we saw Super Crazy on the same show as Austin and Rock in 1997 did you say the same thing?


Guy probably wasn't even watching wrestling in 1997. Of course I could be wrong in that.


----------



## 3venflow

*Dynamite*










*Rampage*


----------



## rich110991

Dynamite was miles better than RAW, and SD won’t top it either.

The million extra fans that RAW and SD gets are missing out


----------



## Not Lying

BIIIG Nige said:


> When we saw Super Crazy on the same show as Austin and Rock in 1997 did you say the same thing?


I started watching regularly WWE in mid 2000s and only catched WCW in 2000-2001.

But to answer your question? Did Rock or Austin make their return a week earlier?
Were they in negotiations and should have been pulling out the big guns? (God Tony better be smarter than this).
Also, Did Super Crazy get a graphic and had hype for his match for a week?

god really some of you will defend anything.
The Women segment stays, but you follow up Athena/Jade or do something with Britt or something with the Champ.
This random match set up Toni Storm to fail big time.



The Legit Lioness said:


> *Let's talk about it.
> *Heatless match
> *Random opponent off the street
> *Immediate picture in picture throughout more than half the match
> *Glorified squash
> 
> What's the incentive for ANYONE to stay for this? Unless you're a super Toni Storm fan, you have no reason to give a shit about any of this. Meanwhile, Jade vs Athena, which is literally the only women's program with any kind of momentum, got no air time whatsoever.*


Facts.

Toni is like the 5th most over woman ij the company, she’s not in a program and doesn’t have momentum (ala Wardlow 2 months ago)

you don’t do heatless matches like this unless it’s with a proven draw with momentum people wana tune in to see beat someone. Toni ain’t it, yet.

This ain’t Martinez/Deonna main eventing level stupid, but this match out there was just so random.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Let me praise AEW for something they did right. Y'all know how we've been complaining for the last 3 years about them not revisiting segments or creating continued threads throughout the night? They finally figured it out and brought back Punk and Moxley unexpectedly for the pull apart, which caused a significant ratings increase for the quarter. That's that Attitude Era shit that can work in modern wrestling.*


----------



## Not Lying

3venflow said:


> *Dynamite*
> 
> View attachment 130923
> 
> 
> *Rampage*
> 
> View attachment 130922


Brandon’s graphs were better 😜
I need to know the # of commercials in each segment before I rip into Omega more.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> Brandon’s graphs were better 😜
> I need to know the # of commercials in each segment before I rip into Omega more.


*100,000 of the fans that were run off by the terrible women's match came back to see Kenny bro. They just left when they realized they had to watch a Young Bucks match 😂.*


----------



## bdon

Oh


3venflow said:


> *Dynamite*
> 
> View attachment 130923
> 
> 
> *Rampage*
> 
> View attachment 130922


Oh look! Punk also lost 91k viewers over the course of his 15-minute segment as opposed to the 89k viewers that changed the channel during Omega’s return.
Gosh. What would they do without that mega draw CM PUNK, @LifeInCattleClass !?

That feeling when your math sucks must hurt, eh @The Definition of Technician ?


----------



## DammitChrist

CM Punk and Kenny Omega both drew (as well as the Young Bucks too).

Boom, problem solved.


----------



## IronMan8

The Punk quarter hour? No ads.
The Danielson/Garcia quarter hour? 1-2 ad breaks
etc.

Quarter hours are misleading


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

IronMan8 said:


> The Punk quarter hour? No ads.
> The Danielson/Garcia quarter hour? 1-2 ad breaks
> etc.
> 
> Quarter hours are misleading


yip - you need a minute by minute breakdown to really know whats up

fans looking at quarterlies is kinda silly TBH - there is so much data lacking its staggering


----------



## Irish Jet

The rating has little to nothing to do with the quality of the show on Wednesday. 

It's what happens after months of awful, directionless content with little to no star power. When you build a show around Jericho and Moxley in 2022 it's gonna be a bad time.


----------



## Hell No

Shame I really enjoyed the last episode of Dynamite should of did over a million easy.


----------



## Kishido

Punk is the Dollar and Cents 

Omega a Megastar 

Next wee will be easily 1,2 million


----------



## Irish Jet

Kishido said:


> Punk is the Dollar and Cents
> 
> Omega a Megastar
> 
> Next wee will be easily 1,2 million


There are no Kenny Omega fans who aren’t already watching Dynamite.


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> Oh
> 
> Oh look! Punk also lost 91k viewers over the course of his 15-minute segment as opposed to the 89k viewers that changed the channel during Omega’s return.
> Gosh. What would they do without that mega draw CM PUNK, @LifeInCattleClass !?
> 
> That feeling when your math sucks must hurt, eh @The Definition of Technician ?


Look at this guy. Bruh. Before you come at me like this get your facts straight 😂😂

The Graphs’ point shows the average of the 15min quarter, not the minute by minute “what’s happening” breakdown. You have no idea if Punk “lost” viewers in his segment and the fact Q4 gained some tells me no.

The line of the decline you see is 100% due to Quarter 2’s average being 1m while the Q1 was 1.1m, the decline doesn’t show you minutebyminute ratings moving.


----------



## bdon

The Definition of Technician said:


> Look at this guy. Bruh. Before you come at me like this get your facts straight 😂😂
> 
> The Graphs’ point shows the average of the 15min quarter, not the minute by minute “what’s happening” breakdown. You have no idea if Punk “lost” viewers in his segment and the fact Q4 gained some tells me no.
> 
> The line of the decline you see is 100% due to Quarter 2’s average being 1m while the Q1 was 1.1m.


[/QUOTE]
Yes, it OPENED at 1.1million. Quarter 1 CLOSED at 1million, opening quarter 2 at that same number on average.

Over the course of a 15 minute segment, Punk’s quaffed hour lose 91k eyes, and Omega’s lost 89k.

MaTh iS rEaLlY HaRd!!!


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> Yes, it OPENED at 1.1million. Quarter 1 CLOSED at 1million, opening quarter 2 at that same number on average.
> 
> Over the course of a 15 minute segment, Punk’s quaffed hour lose 91k eyes, and Omega’s lost 89k.
> 
> MaTh iS rEaLlY HaRd!!!


Your bias is blinding you.

it didn’t open at 1.1m.
8h-8h15 AVERAGED 1.1m (so at 50% of the time MORE than that)
8h15-8h30 AVERAGE is 1m.

Get it now??
I’ll be waiting for your apology like Punk waited on VKM


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yip - you need a minute by minute breakdown to really know whats up
> 
> fans looking at quarterlies is kinda silly TBH - there is so much data lacking its staggering


*The women outside of Britt and Jade (and Shida in early 2020) not drawing has been a constant for years though.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *The women outside of Britt and Jade (and Shida in early 2020) not drawing has been a constant for years though.*


yeah, i won‘t dispute that trend

i think we all agree the division is the shits and TK should hand the women’s book over to somebody who cares about the division


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah, i won‘t dispute that trend
> 
> i think we all agree the division is the shits and TK should hand the women’s book over to somebody who cares about the division


*It really annoys me because I remember being very excited for Shida's push in early 2020. I thought the women's division was finally going in the right direction. Tony Khan booked her to her strengths and let her shine with solid wrestling matches. Once those Britt Baker wheelchair PowerPoints started, he just threw her in the trash and she never recovered.*


----------



## Dr. Middy

I believe nothing until somebody brings me the quarter second breakdown.


----------



## Joe Gill

just as predicted the long garcia match lost over a hundred thousand viewers....TK is clueless if he thinks people are going to tune in to watch a nobody wrestle for 20+ minutes. And also as predicted once everyone found out who the mystery partner was they changed the channel....when a casual fans sees omega start to orgasm its an immediate channel changer. The only draw AEW has right now is punk vs moxley....and it looks like they are going to hot shot it next week instead of further building the feud for the ppv.


----------



## BIIIG Nige

Joe Gill said:


> just as predicted the long garcia match lost over a hundred thousand viewers....TK is clueless if he thinks people are going to tune in to watch a nobody wrestle for 20+ minutes. And also as predicted once everyone found out who the mystery partner was they changed the channel....when a casual fans sees omega start to orgasm its an immediate channel changer. The only draw AEW has right now is punk vs moxley....and it looks like they are going to hot shot it next week instead of further building the feud for the ppv.


A nobody?

I'm not the guy to talk, but I'd say you lost credibility there.


----------



## NathanMayberry

BIIIG Nige said:


> A nobody?
> 
> I'm not the guy to talk, but I'd say you lost credibility there.


Of all the things he wrote Daniel Garcia being a nobody is the least disputable 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BIIIG Nige

NathanMayberry said:


> Of all the things he wrote Daniel Garcia being a nobody is the least disputable
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hmm, not used to seeing young talent getting over with the fans are you now.


----------



## GarpTheFist

This is new guy seems to me like a hybrid of @Evenflow and @Erik. Or maybe erik got smarter and changed his writing style so he doesn't get found out again by chippah


----------



## Randy Lahey

The Definition of Technician said:


> I started watching regularly WWE in mid 2000s and only catched WCW in 2000-2001.
> 
> But to answer your question? Did Rock or Austin make their return a week earlier?
> Were they in negotiations and should have been pulling out the big guns? (God Tony better be smarter than this).
> Also, Did Super Crazy get a graphic and had hype for his match for a week?
> 
> god really some of you will defend anything.
> The Women segment stays, but you follow up Athena/Jade or do something with Britt or something with the Champ.
> This random match set up Toni Storm to fail big time.
> 
> 
> 
> Facts.
> 
> Toni is like the 5th most over woman ij the company, she’s not in a program and doesn’t have momentum (ala Wardlow 2 months ago)
> 
> you don’t do heatless matches like this unless it’s with a proven draw with momentum people wana tune in to see beat someone. Toni ain’t it, yet.
> 
> This ain’t Martinez/Deonna main eventing level stupid, but this match out there was just so random.


No womens matches draw ever. Doesn’t matter who it is or the time slot

100,000+ people have been tuning out whether it’s Brit/Hayter vs Thunder Storm in the 1st hour, or Storm/King, or Rosa’s segments, Womens wrestling is an absolute drag on the rest of the show. It’s not even worth putting on any matches.


----------



## The XL 2

Daniel Garcia is an absolute nobody. Looks like he serves tables at Denny's, and is generic and bland as them come. Why should I care that he's a 'great' worker(He's not) when he's not interesting or believable enough to be in that spot in the first place?


----------



## BIIIG Nige

GarpTheFist said:


> This is new guy seems to me like a hybrid of @Evenflow and @Erik. Or maybe erik got smarter and changed his writing style so he doesn't get found out again by chippah


Will you be apologising when it's proved I am not the same guy as European "Erik", which is what your mate said? Thought not.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Dr. Middy said:


> I believe nothing until somebody brings me the quarter second breakdown.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560789520748003329

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

The XL 2 said:


> Daniel Garcia is an absolute nobody. Looks like he serves tables at Denny's, and is generic and bland as them come. Why should I care that he's a 'great' worker(He's not) when he's not interesting or believable enough to be in that spot in the first place?


I guarantee you that statements like this were posted about Bryan Danielson, AJ Styles, CM Punk, Seth Rollins, Kenny Omega, and Jon Moxley online in the early-mid 2000s only for those comments to age poorly when they all eventually broke out in the upper card or in the main event picture several years later.

Daniel Garcia is a rising star, and it's just inevitable at this point.

The dude was mostly an unknown name just a year ago, and now he's already a newer pillar that already has a decisive win over Bryan Danielson (who's also technically beaten him twice via submission).

Not only that, but Garcia is also a great worker, and he's ONLY *23 years old* too (which is 6 years younger than Jay White and Will Ospreay; who are young guys that have currently been breaking out in their prime over the last few years).

Garcia is only going to get even better as a performer too.


----------



## Not Lying

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560789520748003329
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is a graph I like 😍

So indeed Q7>Q8, and 1 commercial each? Omega fails.

Bryan/Garcia I loved but it’s match that came out of nowhere in Garcia’s career, and not surprised to see it lose 100K too (with Q2 and Q3 also having 1 commercial)

and we can now cut the ladies some slack as it was 2 ads in their Quarter.

Punk and Mox drew, in more than 1 segment 😍 (Been saying since Mox’s first run he needs to make more 1
Segment appearance per show)

All this also confirms to me we don’t need those trios titles.
these 6men tag bullshit have been killing AEW’s ratings since early on in Omega’s run (Feb-March 2021) when the doofuses Anderson/Gallows from TNA Showed up.
If the ELITE lose viewers for their 6man BS, it’s gona be bad for the rest of teams except Best Friends


So stop doing heatless shit, either do them right or don’t.
Garcia vs Bryan is a match I wanted 2 years from now, not this rushed BS no sense which had in the span of a few weeks Yuta beating Garcia, Garcia beating Bryan, Jericho beating Yuta, Mox beating Jericho, and then Bryan beating Daniel.


----------



## Gn1212

I told someone in another thread a day or two ago people tuned out for Toni Storm v KiLynn King, I'll accept the apology via mail.


----------



## .christopher.

I'm just here to laugh at AEW

Harhar


----------



## kingfunkel

So my take from the quater break down was the women's match shit the bed. Killed the rating, some returned towards the end to catch the mainevent. Seen Omega return and 90k turned off the show. Was it a case of people knowing the result and thinking fuck it?


----------



## RogueSlayer

The XL 2 said:


> Daniel Garcia is an absolute nobody. Looks like he serves tables at Denny's, and is generic and bland as them come. Why should I care that he's a 'great' worker(He's not) when he's not interesting or believable enough to be in that spot in the first place?


Couldn't agree more 💯

Nothing screams generic create a wrestler more than Daniel Garcia lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Punk/Mox doing really well in the quarter hours. Omega’s return seemed to get a pop of interest, but then lost all of it shortly after during his match.

Woman’s segment a disaster yet again. Garcia/Bryan also not doing well. TBH while it was a great match, I had very little interest going into it myself even as a Bryan fan.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Once again the Bucks are a ratings drop. They have been doing the same match now for 3 years. They never improve, or change. Its time to cut the Bucks and end their drama / bad ratings segments. 

Garcia is a dork and does not deserve his spot. The guy comes out with a boscovs oversize towel like he is going swimming. The towel is bigger than him. Hes a complete failure and another no charisma "im a real shoot fighter " davey richards wannabe. He is perfect for ROH not for national TV.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Punk/Mox doing really well in the quarter hours. Omega’s return seemed to get a pop of interest, but then lost all of it shortly after during his match.
> 
> Woman’s segment a disaster yet again. Garcia/Bryan also not doing well. TBH while it was a great match, I had very little interest going into it myself even as a Bryan fan.


*You've known for years that I never agree with Bryan Alvarez about anything, but he sure was spitting about this AEW women's division. There wasn't a single miss in this rant. The tag match two weeks ago was well received and they followed it up with this bullshit.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560980803047239680
And apparently Tony Khan learned nothing from this failure, because this is next week's scheduled match:









Britt Baker is the company Band-Aid whenever he fails to properly present the women and I'm sick of it. He completely ignores the core issues and thinks because he puts her on television everything will be fine. This is coming from the biggest Britt Baker fan on this site.*


----------



## DammitChrist

CenaBoy4Life said:


> Once again the Bucks are a ratings drop. They have been doing the same match now for 3 years. They never improve, or change. Its time to cut the Bucks and end their drama / bad ratings segments.
> 
> Garcia is a dork and does not deserve his spot. The guy comes out with a boscovs oversize towel like he is going swimming. The towel is bigger than him. Hes a complete failure and another no charisma "im a real shoot fighter " davey richards wannabe. He is perfect for ROH not for national TV.


Nah, the Young Bucks are part of the life blood of AEW since they’re among the handful of men that helped build this company, and a great portion of the wrestling audience (who follow or support the Elite) frequently tune in to see them.

Getting rid of 2 talented guys who represent a great alternative (and who are crucial in helping start this promotion) is a huge red flag.

Daniel Garcia is definitely not a ‘failure’ since he’s one of the most over/hottest acts out of the younger guys. The fact that the Dynamite audience cheered Garcia, and hoped to see him turn on his own faction pretty much demonstrates that he’s anything but a ‘charisma vacuum’ (because that term doesn’t describe wrestlers who receive that loud ovation).

Daniel Garcia teasing a face turn by standing up to JAS, and receiving that loud crowd support is even more impressive since he technically just beat Bryan Danielson (who’s arguably the most beloved babyface over the last decade) twice over the last month.

Edit:

For the record, KiLynn King deserves to be showcased on TV since she’s a talented/good worker who also adds plenty of size in the lower card; so Tony Khan definitely knows what he’s doing regarding the women. Hopefully, he continues what he’s doing, and focuses on his own ideas instead


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Young bucks are in the bottom tier of ratings every damn time how are they the life blood? Nobody likes them at all. The entire Elite have been a dud.

Garcia getting cheerd by the live crowd means nothing. They cheer for anything just like the Impact Zone fans.


----------



## midgetlover69

Time is ticking for aew and they are over here wasting their top talent on daniel garcia and wheeler yuta. Cant make this up


----------



## Aedubya

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 957,000
> 18-49: 0.30
> 
> #2 on cable this week (joint in the demo with #1). Down from last week and the lowest demo in some time. Viewership much of muchness for recently.
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 8/10: 972,000 / 0.33 (Quake by the Lake)
> 8/3: 938,000 / 0.32
> 7/27: 976,000 / 0.33
> 7/20: 910,000 / 0.32
> 7/13: 942,000 / 0.32
> 7/6: 979,000 / 0.36
> 6/29: 1,023,000 / 0.36 (Blood & Guts)
> 6/22: 878,000 / 0.31
> 
> They performed well with men, but the Real Housewives show mopped up the F18-49.
> 
> View attachment 130866


-----Anything above 0.80 is ok, Anything above 0.85 is good, anything above 0.9 is v good , anything above 0.95 is brilliant , anything above 1.0 is outstanding----- 

BRILLIANT


----------



## BIIIG Nige

Incredible show, one of the best this year I reckon. Still amazes me wrestling fans love to hate on it.


----------



## La Parka

.christopher. said:


> I'm just here to laugh at AEW
> 
> Harhar


Remember the good ole days when people said AEW would catch raw in a few years?


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> I'm just here to laugh at AEW
> 
> Harhar


This doesn't even make sense.

What's there to even 'laugh' about?

Ha, AEW is clearly succeeding as a big alternative, and they just delivered what was arguably one of the best Dynamite episodes of the year too


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> Remember the good ole days when people said AEW would catch raw in a few years?


plz, no cries in sept mkay?

Remember, demos > overall



https://www.nfl.com/schedules/2022/reg1/


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> plz, no cries in sept mkay?
> 
> Remember, demos > overall
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nfl.com/schedules/2022/reg1/


will AEW even be on TV in sept?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> will AEW even be on TV in sept?


who knows 😢


----------



## omaroo

La Parka said:


> will AEW even be on TV in sept?


No it will be dead according to the genius reports.

Better get the I told you sos ready.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

omaroo said:


> No it will be dead according to the genius reports.
> 
> Better get the I told you sos ready.


i’ve read there is a Xero exclusive coming out about it


----------



## TD Stinger

The Legit Lioness said:


> *You've known for years that I never agree with Bryan Alvarez about anything, but he sure was spitting about this AEW women's division. There wasn't a single miss in this rant. The tag match two weeks ago was well received and they followed it up with this bullshit.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560980803047239680
> And apparently Tony Khan learned nothing from this failure, because this is next week's scheduled match:
> View attachment 131006
> 
> 
> Britt Baker is the company Band-Aid whenever he fails to properly present the women and I'm sick of it. He completely ignores the core issues and thinks because he puts her on television everything will be fine. This is coming from the biggest Britt Baker fan on this site.*


Saw Bryan's comments on Reddit and while I go back and forth on what I agree with him on, he was spot on. People talking about the women not drawing when in the end they are put on the same slot on the show every week, the creative around them sucks (lacking any kind of nuance or depth that they might have for the men) and the top performers of the division are usually left on the sidelines.

"Well golly gee wiz they just don't draw." It's like, no shit they don't draw. You constantly tell your audience they don't matter and give them nothing to work with. Every week they tell the audience that part of their roster doesn't matter. And people will say "well just don't have a women's division". That is never happening in a million years in 2022, even if they get their own show as rumored. So with that in mind, put some effort into what you're doing week to week.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> plz, no cries in sept mkay?
> 
> *Remember, demos > overall*
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nfl.com/schedules/2022/reg1/


This is correct, which is why I know the Fed is far superior to the Dub when their top 2 shows crush their competition when AEW can't manage to beat the Real Housewives.

That's totally what you're trying to say right?.......Right?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TD Stinger said:


> This is correct, which is why I know the Fed is far superior to the Dub when their top 2 shows crush their competition when AEW can't manage to beat the Real Housewives.
> 
> That's totally what you're trying to say right?.......Right?


lol, sure - why not

Fed > Dub in demoez


----------



## Randy Lahey

BIIIG Nige said:


> Still amazes me wrestling fans love to hate on it.


The present day WWE fan that hates AEW isn’t a wrestling fan. They are fans of a specific type of sports entertainment that WWE has created.

Pro wrestling (New Japan, ROH, AEW, MLW, Indy’s) all exist outside of that realm. MMA exists outside of that realm.


----------



## Randy Lahey

TD Stinger said:


> And people will say "well just don't have a women's division". That is never happening in a million years in 2022,


I think it will. TV deals are based on demos. Tony will eventually have to cut the underperforming slots to get the demos up, and that means the women. He even put Thunder Storm vs Brit Baker/Hayter in the 1st hour and it lost 100,000 viewers. 

And if Bryan is right that HHH is going to double down on womens wrestling, WWE is going to tank their ratings too. The answer is NOT for AEW to try to mimic WWE. They need to be alternative. If that means WWE has lot of womens matches, AEW should have none.0. 

There’s a reason the NBA get better ratings than the WNBA. And mens soccer does better than womens. And nearly every sport you name. When AEW’s survival is based on TV deals/demos, he’s going to have push the people that keep the viewership. That’s not women.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

TD Stinger said:


> Saw Bryan's comments on Reddit and while I go back and forth on what I agree with him on, he was spot on. People talking about the women not drawing when in the end they are put on the same slot on the show every week, *the creative around them sucks* (lacking any kind of nuance or depth that they might have for the men) and the top performers of the division are usually left on the sidelines.


The bold part is the big problem. The timeslot even wouldn't be that big of a deal, and may even be a benefit being consistently put in the same slot (people would know when to watch them), IF the feuds in the women's division were worth watching. AEW's creative is/storylines are definitely not always on point, but for the women specifically it feels like it's just always been bad. Like, I don't think I can tell you about a single meaningful women's feud that's happened in AEW. Like sure, Baker winning the AEW women's title was cool, but outside of that I really can't tell you a single thing that happened during her reign from memory... well except that one time she teamed with her husband for like a week. Even then, I don't remember who they were facing for sure (I want to say it was OC and Statlander as a guess). Even that was more about the OC/Cole feud than the women that were a part of it.

Even looking at Jade, there's just nothing there story wise besides her being a super dominant long champion. I'm cool with her being a champion that squashes people, and I'm aware of this feud with Athena going on right now but I don't remember anyone else she's fought. And with how this Athena feud has gone, I'm not sure I'll remember it a month after it ends.

Part of the problem is there aren't many good mic workers or even in ring workers in the women's division (they have more of the latter, but no one besides Deeb I'd really put up there as great). On the mic specifically they really only have Baker right now from what I've seen who can carry feuds/programs, and even then she has her limits if the material/story given to her/her opponent are trash. 

The problem too is now you have guys like Punk, Bryan, Moxley, and others back/recently debuted like Omega, Claudio... may even have MJF back soon. Miro/Darby/Sting feuding with HoB. BCC/JAS. The men's division alone has too much going on in it for a 2 hour show that they already have to cut stuff out, that putting random women's matches on the show that serve no purpose makes it even worse because they're taking away from potential interesting feuds on the men's side. So I think Tony Khan's interest in making the women's division anything meaningful is at an all-time low right now, and you can argue it was already really low to begin with.

Like I said, I think there's a talent issue there in the women's division from what I've seen, but the biggest thing is that no story they're ever in is interesting.


----------



## Irish Jet

Tony Khan doesn’t like women’s wrestling so it stands to reason that his fans don’t either.

Just pull the plug and let the more talented girls go to HHH who will actually do the work and get them over.


----------



## Not Lying

It’s insane Thunder Rosa was more over early on in the pandemic era than she is now after 5months of champ.
Nothing memorable about this reign so far.

the only women that can draw are Jade or Britt. Toni too but she needs right booking/momentum.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 461,000
18-49: 0.12

After last week's spike (Meltzer said it was due to The Last Jedi leading in, plus Danielson/Garcia showdown was the first segment), the numbers were closer to their usual average on Friday. Demo was below recent average (#14 on cable, last week was #10), only beating the 7/29 show and tying 6/24. NFL being on at the same time probably played a part in that, eating into the M18-49 number. Viewership slightly higher than all of July's shows except the Royal Rampage, but below the past two weeks.

*Last two months*

8/12: 528,000 / 0.17
8/5: 468,000 / 0.15
7/29: 375,000 / 0.11
7/22: 428,000 / 0.17
7/15: 435,000 / 0.14
7/8: 428,000 / 0.15
7/1: 486,000 / 0.16 (Royal Rampage)
6/24: 422,000 / 0.12


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewers: 461,000
> 18-49: 0.12
> 
> After last week's spike (Meltzer said it was due to The Last Jedi leading in, plus Danielson/Garcia showdown was the first segment), the numbers were closer to their usual average on Friday. Demo was below recent average (#14 on cable, last week was #10), excluding the 7/29 and 6/24 shows. NFL being on at the same time probably played a part in that, eating into the M18-49 number. Viewership slightly higher than all of July's shows except the Royal Rampage.
> 
> *Last two months*
> 
> 8/12: 528,000 / 0.17
> 8/5: 468,000 / 0.15
> 7/29: 375,000 / 0.11
> 7/22: 428,000 / 0.17
> 7/15: 435,000 / 0.14
> 7/8: 428,000 / 0.15
> 7/1: 486,000 / 0.16 (Royal Rampage)
> 6/24: 422,000 / 0.12
> 
> View attachment 131124


i’ve read a rumour they are going to reduce Rampage to all Ad breaks


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’ve read a rumour they are going to reduce Rampage to all Ad breaks


Xero Newz tells me Warner Discovery plan on making it a G-rated 30 minute show which must do 2 million viewers or be cancelled.


----------



## RapShepard

You all are fucking imbeciles. The rumor is Rampage is going softcore with Sammy and Tay in a starring role.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Dat year over year growth 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bdon

NathanMayberry said:


> Dat year over year growth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Who is the star power that gets the lion’s share of the credit and blame again?

Ohhh. That’s right…


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’ve read a rumour they are going to reduce Rampage to all Ad breaks


It pretty much already is.


----------



## 3venflow

If any of our resident Canadians are planning to go to the Toronto show, presale codes for Thursday (10am Eastern) are:

KTSWIN
RYTOJG

This is expected to be a quick sell out and they probably should have run larger like WWE yesterday (which was the highest TV attendance of the year so far).


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Randy Lahey said:


> I think it will. TV deals are based on demos. Tony will eventually have to cut the underperforming slots to get the demos up, and that means the women. He even put Thunder Storm vs Brit Baker/Hayter in the 1st hour and it lost 100,000 viewers.
> 
> And if Bryan is right that HHH is going to double down on womens wrestling, WWE is going to tank their ratings too. The answer is NOT for AEW to try to mimic WWE. They need to be alternative. If that means WWE has lot of womens matches, AEW should have none.0.
> 
> There’s a reason the NBA get better ratings than the WNBA. And mens soccer does better than womens. And nearly every sport you name. When AEW’s survival is based on TV deals/demos, he’s going to have push the people that keep the viewership. That’s not women.


I agree 100000%. Women need to be used as valets. Look at the ratings drop for WWE since the women's revolution. It just isn't a real draw.


----------



## 3venflow

The Mox/Jericho episode did AEW's record high on ITV4 In the UK, with 190,000 viewers - up 72,000 from the previous week. AEW's numbers on ITV4 have fluctuated heavily, I think because many of the viewers are so-called 'casuals' (it airs late on Friday nights), while many of the more serious viewers watch it quicker through FITE. However, the viewership has been higher on average in recent months and also set a new record in June.

You'd never see Dynamite and Rampage this close in America:

*July 25, 2022 Update*
AEW Rampage from July 8 (aired July 12) – 110,000 (up 14,000 on the prior week) [Rampage started at 11.15pm]
AEW Dynamite from July 13 (aired July 15) – 127,000 (up 9,000 on the prior week) [Dynamite started at 11.20pm]









UK TV Ratings


In the UK, WWE currently broadcasts on BT Sport – having moved there after spending decades with Sky Sports. Raw, SmackDown and NXT usually air live (that is, the same time as in the US) on B…




backbodydrop.com


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

Randy Lahey said:


> The present day WWE fan that hates AEW isn’t a wrestling fan. They are fans of a specific type of sports entertainment that WWE has created.
> 
> Pro wrestling (New Japan, ROH, AEW, MLW, Indy’s) all exist outside of that realm. MMA exists outside of that realm.


I didn't know there were AEW fans that were still this deluded.

You're not a part of a special movement. It's another wrestling promotion that works like every other wrestling promotion.

Trying to pretend it's like MMA is insane and kind of embarrassing.



La Parka said:


> Remember the good ole days when people said AEW would catch raw in a few years?


"1.4m for the first show and it's just gonna keep growing"


----------



## DammitChrist

AEW is still growing (as it always has been)


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

DammitChrist said:


> AEW is still growing (as it always has been)


You might be the most delusional AEW fan that exists. And that's quite the task.


----------



## DammitChrist

AuthorOfPosts said:


> You might be the most delusional AEW fan that exists. And that's quite the task.


Nah, I was stating the reality/truth about their growing audience


----------



## Lady Eastwood

I thought AEW ratings were declining?

Not even trying to be a dick, I just thought I read that recently. I don't really pay attention to weekly ratings, it just came up in an article I was reading.


----------



## DammitChrist

Eastwood said:


> I thought AEW ratings were declining?
> 
> Not even trying to be a dick, I just thought I read that recently. I don't really pay attention to weekly ratings, it just came up in an article I was reading.


I'd say AEW's ratings had more peaks (plus more lows) last year, but their viewership is more stable this year despite the amount of cord-cutting continuing to increase recently.


----------



## 3venflow

Eastwood said:


> I thought AEW ratings were declining?
> 
> Not even trying to be a dick, I just thought I read that recently. I don't really pay attention to weekly ratings, it just came up in an article I was reading.


Year-on-year, they're actually up again on average. But that is helped by fewer preemptions skewing the average, which is a variable that can't be ignored. They're a lot more stable and consistent this year.

As an aside, I wonder if Mox vs. Punk only being two minutes long will lead to a smaller rating than expected for yesterday's show. It didn't even last a full QH.


----------



## 3venflow

Once again, they have left money on the table in a first-time market. Tony Khan needs to be bolder in cases like this, as this type of lost income could go in the coffers for when they underperform in repeat markets.

They could have done the building WWE did for RAW and probably sold it out or close enough.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562806140786085888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562808565609349123


----------



## IronMan8

Eastwood said:


> I thought AEW ratings were declining?
> 
> Not even trying to be a dick, I just thought I read that recently. I don't really pay attention to weekly ratings, it just came up in an article I was reading.


The truth is AEW's ratings have steadily risen every year since they started.

It's been a consistent upward trend.

The only major change since they started was Punk's arrival, which caused a quick, significant jump in the ratings that was obvious to anyone with half a brain, and that jump was retained and since increased gradually by a small amount.

They're the facts.

People have agendas, but numbers don't lie if you know how to analyse them yourself


----------



## CovidFan

IronMan8 said:


> Punk's arrival, which caused a quick, significant jump in the ratings that was obvious to anyone with half a brain, and that jump was retained and since increased gradually by a small amount.
> 
> People have agendas, but numbers don't lie if you know how to analyse them yourself


From Punk's first Dynamite through February (6 months), average viewership: 1,074,200
March through current (6 months), average viewership: 940,560


----------



## bdon

IronMan8 said:


> The truth is AEW's ratings have steadily risen every year since they started.
> 
> It's been a consistent upward trend.
> 
> The only major change since they started was Punk's arrival, which caused a quick, significant jump in the ratings that was obvious to anyone with half a brain, and that jump was retained and since increased gradually by a small amount.
> 
> They're the facts.
> 
> People have agendas, but numbers don't lie if you know how to analyse them yourself


Take away the shows last year that weren’t pre-empted due to TNT scheduling conflicts.


----------



## Aedubya

.91 for last night?


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 1,049,000
18-49: 0.34

#1 on cable

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

8/17: 957,000 / 0.30
8/10: 972,000 / 0.33 (Quake by the Lake)
8/3: 938,000 / 0.32
7/27: 976,000 / 0.33
7/20: 910,000 / 0.32
7/13: 942,000 / 0.32
7/6: 979,000 / 0.36
6/29: 1,023,000 / 0.36 (Blood & Guts)


----------



## Mr316

Pretty good number I guess.


----------



## RapShepard

Guessing Punk vs Moxley got a 1.5ish for their quarter hour


----------



## RainmakerV2

Heyyyyyyy they got there ! Party in the showers tonight!


----------



## Peerless

Interested to see what the quarter ratings will show. Punk-Mox lasting 8 min (entrance to exit) instead of two quarters undermined their numbers.


----------



## fabi1982

Look, growth. Now everyone can be happy again.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 1,049,000
> 18-49: 0.34
> 
> #1 on cable
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 8/17: 957,000 / 0.30
> 8/10: 972,000 / 0.33 (Quake by the Lake)
> 8/3: 938,000 / 0.32
> 7/27: 976,000 / 0.33
> 7/20: 910,000 / 0.32
> 7/13: 942,000 / 0.32
> 7/6: 979,000 / 0.36
> 6/29: 1,023,000 / 0.36 (Blood & Guts)
> 
> View attachment 131406


demo back up, good to see

arbitrary 1m sure to satisfy the peeps in the cheap seats too


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Better Overall number than usual, but the same demo as usual. Not sure if it was worth giving away your biggest match just for this number. Can't believe that match didn't increase the demo from it's usual range (.30-.34).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Anybody know why wwe is 3 separate hours on this chart, but aew is a combined 2 hrs?

@3venflow - maybe you do?


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Anybody know why wwe is 3 separate hours on this chart, but aew is a combined 2 hrs?
> 
> @3venflow - maybe you do?


Same goes for smackdown. Guess it is that 3h thing?


----------



## Christopher Near

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, I was stating the reality/truth about their growing audience


It's not the truth though. They had more last year and had to hotshot a big match to pop a rating


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Anybody know why wwe is 3 separate hours on this chart, but aew is a combined 2 hrs?
> 
> @3venflow - maybe you do?


They always separate it and I read the reason once, but can't remember. It's for ratings purposes but maybe someone else knows the exact reason. This has been done going back to the 90s when it'd be Raw is War then hour two would be the Warzone (which was more adult/risque) with its own extra intro.

Last seven days on cable from Brandon:


----------



## Han Popo

Biggest draw in AEW is MJF easily


----------



## Geeee

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Anybody know why wwe is 3 separate hours on this chart, but aew is a combined 2 hrs?
> 
> @3venflow - maybe you do?


If I had to guess, it's because USA network wants it that way

Also, I feel like we've confirmed that a lot of AEW's viewers were 49 in 2021 LOL


----------



## HoneyBee

Christopher Near said:


> It's not the truth though. They had more last year and had to hotshot a big match to pop a rating


They are a television company first and foremost, it's not hot shotting at all.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Ah shit they got the million. Everyone go home, we'll get 'em next time.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Guessing Punk vs Moxley got a 1.5ish for their quarter hour


*They gave away their biggest match on free television in a stupid ass squash and couldn't hit 1.1 million. Only MJF coming back could do a bigger number. This is literally like Bischoff giving away Goldberg vs. Hogan on free TV, but the fan base won't acknowledge that.*


----------



## RapShepard

Compare

*Dynamite 9/22/21 Grand Slam*- Omega vs Bryan, .48 demo 1.27 Million viewership 

*Dynamite 12/15/21 Winter is Coming 2*- Hangman vs Bryan 1, .31 Demo 948k viewership 

*Dynamite 1/5/22* Hangman vs Bryan 2, .43 demo 1.01 viewership


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit Lioness said:


> *They gave away their biggest match on free television in a stupid ass squash and couldn't hit 1.1 million. Only MJF coming back could do a bigger number. This is literally like Bischoff giving away Goldberg vs. Hogan on free TV, but the fan base won't acknowledge that.*


I don't have a problem with them doing it on TV honestly, just weird to do it right before the PPV.


----------



## chronoxiong

Congrats on the 1 million viewers. Been a while.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Kenny's Ghost said:


> Ah shit they got the million. Everyone go home, we'll get 'em next time.


That cat guy looks angry as hell that the other guy is giving him the jerk-off motion.


----------



## One Shed

World champ unification advertised match was a big draw. We will see what the fallout of what they decided to do is.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Anybody know why wwe is 3 separate hours on this chart, but aew is a combined 2 hrs?
> 
> @3venflow - maybe you do?


WWE has done this for over 20 years with RAW. When RAW first became two hours, the first hour was RAW is WAR and the second hour was The War Zone. They did this specifically to say they had two highly rated shows (and possibly also to have more adult related content on the 9pm show vs 8pm and have the hours get different content ratings) on cable. This continues when it became three hours but the actual name difference was not maintained. So yes, it is all marketing BS.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Good number, highest in almost 7 months. I do wonder if putting it in the middle of the show had an impact on the overall number. Quarter hours will tell that story.


----------



## The real Axel

Kenny's Ghost said:


> Ah shit they got the million. Everyone go home, we'll get 'em next time.


You win this round, dubbalos


----------



## DammitChrist

Yep, 1.1 million is suddenly the new goal apparently 



Christopher Near said:


> It's not the truth though. They had more last year and had to hotshot a big match to pop a rating


Oh, okay then.

AEW finally reaches the 1+ million mark (that repeatedly gets obsessed for months on here in spite of their obvious stability); but yet the reasoning behind it must somehow be frowned upon 👏

Anyway, I didn't make any typos. It *IS* the truth though


----------



## BIIIG Nige

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 1,049,000
> 18-49: 0.34
> 
> #1 on cable
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 8/17: 957,000 / 0.30
> 8/10: 972,000 / 0.33 (Quake by the Lake)
> 8/3: 938,000 / 0.32
> 7/27: 976,000 / 0.33
> 7/20: 910,000 / 0.32
> 7/13: 942,000 / 0.32
> 7/6: 979,000 / 0.36
> 6/29: 1,023,000 / 0.36 (Blood & Guts)
> 
> View attachment 131406


Gonna be salty peeps upset they weren't under 1m. 🤣🤣


----------



## bdon

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Good number, highest in almost 7 months. I do wonder if putting it in the middle of the show had an impact on the overall number. Quarter hours will tell that story.


Surely a coincidence given the timing, eh?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Great rating this week. 

Now can they maintain it when they’re not putting their two biggest stars in a world title match? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## bdon

To those that worried about the demise of AEW…


----------



## Good Bunny

Only a milly? 🥴

Nah but for real this is like an increase of 70,000 viewers from last week. And that’s honestly all they deserve for that shitty title match.

The trios main event was the only thing worth watching


----------



## Randy Lahey

Strong rating last night. Limiting the womens TV segments was key! Keep it up Tony


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I do want to see the quarters and see if there was a precipitous drop in the ratings post title match or if the viewers stayed pretty strong the rest of the way.


----------



## ClintDagger

That’s probably a slight, slight disappointment. Better than a disaster.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> I don't have a problem with them doing it on TV honestly, just weird to do it right before the PPV.


*Right, that's the most egregious offense. That squash did nothing to make us excited to buy the PPV. It just highlighted more than anything that Punk is washed, and if Moxley loses to a washed Punk, he looks like an even bigger geek. It's a no win situation here.*


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

Congrats on hitting a milly again even though the show left a lot to be desired


----------



## RuthlessAttitude

AEW should pull the plug on PPV and implement more dqs, countouts so they book a rematch or three with ease. Put all the effort into TV and keeping viewership high as possible


----------



## Geeee

Unless my eyes are going crossed, AEW led in every demo except 50+


----------



## Geert Wilders

Omega is a draw.


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## Mr316

Mox and Punk is where the money is and Tony Khan is about to ruin it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Holy hell Punk/Mox bumped that shit up. About a 15% increase followed by everyone dropping after the match was done.

They made a big mistake not having it main event.


----------



## Good Bunny

3venflow said:


> View attachment 131420


So people initially tuned in to see when the title match would be. Came back for said title match, and quickly dipped the fuck out


----------



## 3venflow

Good Bunny said:


> So people initially tuned in to see when the title match would be. Came back for said title match, and quickly dipped the fuck out


There'll always be a drop after a world title match, so no surprise there. I think the retention rate was fine, not too much lower than before the title match itself. A good % of the key demo stuck around too. It was therefore probably smarter to have it at 9pm than opening at 8pm. The world title in main event argument is relevant but I think starting a world title match at 9:50pm would be too much of a giveaway and that this one had special circumstances (the first very short AEW World Title match in history). I guess what they could have done is started the world title match around 9:40pm then have Mox cut the promo he did backstage in the ring to drag out the time more.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> View attachment 131420


*Britt Baker got the women out of the mud.

@RapShepard I am once again asking you to please acknowledge the massive difference in Punk's segments and everyone else's. Yes, he is FAR more important than The Elite. Being a founder of the company has nothing to do with the interest you draw to the television program.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

From the quarter hours I have (missing some of May-June-July-August), that's the highest quarter since Punk/Dax match from 3/23, which had 1.221 but opened the show. Highest number for a non-Q1 since Q2 of 1/26 (continuation of the Cody/Sammy ladder match from Q1), and highest for a quarter not connected to whatever was happening in Q1 since 9/22/2021 (night of Bryan/Omega, which had a high overall viewership and every quarter except Q4 that night was higher than Punk/Mox).

Really impressive quarter hour number, especially compared to the rest of the show.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

Is it a strong number?

Obviously there was going to be a jump from the meh numbers they were doing but this is the biggest match they could've put on TV and they only got an okay improvement from it. A number they realistically should be doing for an average run of the mill show.


----------



## Jay Trotter

1.2 mil in middle of show. If they put this on to open or close, it would've gotten 1.3 mil easily. Punk and Mox not getting a proper fued and match is leaving money on table. I am skeptical about these reports of a rematch in 10 days. All Out buys will suffer with or without it after last night either way.

Another interesting note is Will's trio match this week smoked Kenny's return/trio match last week in numbers in the main event slot. Just a little funny after hearing what Kenny said to Will in the post match promo last night. Fans had the extra incentive to turn it off after they booked the world title match as a squash but stuck around more than expected.


----------



## Peerless

#BadNewsSanta said:


> From the quarter hours I have (missing some of May-June-July-August), that's the highest quarter since Punk/Dax match from 3/23, which had 1.221 but opened the show. Highest number for a non-Q1 since Q2 of 1/26 (continuation of the Cody/Sammy ladder match from Q1), and highest for a quarter not connected to whatever was happening in Q1 since 9/22/2021 (night of Bryan/Omega, which had a high overall viewership and every quarter except Q4 that night was higher than Punk/Mox).
> 
> Really impressive quarter hour number, especially compared to the rest of the show.


It also didn’t take up the full quarter. Fans definitely tuned out during Christian’s promo. It’s minute per minute average for their segment specifically was 1.2M+ for sure.


----------



## DammitChrist

Jay Trotter said:


> 1.2 mil in middle of show. If they put this on to open or close, it would've gotten 1.3 mil easily. Punk and Mox not getting a proper fued and match is leaving money on table. I am skeptical about these reports of a rematch in 10 days. All Out buys will suffer with or without it after last night either way.
> 
> Another interesting note is Will's trio match this week smoked Kenny's return/trio match last week in numbers in the main event slot. Just a little funny after hearing what Kenny said to Will in the post match promo last night. Fans had the extra incentive to turn it off after they booked the world title match as a squash but stuck around more than expected.


You do realize that Kenny Omega was in Will Ospreay’s final segment too, right?

It’s not nearly as ‘amusing’ as it apparently seems to be here.


----------



## DUSTY 74




----------



## IronMan8

Over a million. 

Phew.

We can all take a week off now!


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> View attachment 131420


That’s very encouraging a few things jump out.

#1. Putting the main event at the top of hour 2 was smart. 

#2. The “death slot” isn’t 8:30. It’s simply when the least interesting part of the show is on, which is usually women. This time it was the Gunns. And not surprised since I don’t think people want to see Billy Gunn wrestle.

#3. Great job by Ospreay and company. There were 3 commercial breaks during their match and they still held strong to the end.

Very well executed by Dynamite last night. Main event at top of hour 2. Women kept short. And hot last hour main event


----------



## Peerless

Mox’s quarter ratings since he became interim champ:


Aug 24- 1.198M (162K bump) (Q5) [highest of night]

Aug 17- 1.104M & 1.007M (98k bump) (Q1 and Q4) [highest of night]

Aug 10 - 968K & 1.003M (42k bump then 77k bump) (Q7 and Q8)

Aug 3 - no in ring segment 

July 27 - 1.023M & 1.094M (Q1 and Q2) [highest of night]

July 20 - can’t find it (tag match with Yuta vs Best friends)

July 13 - 958k (Q3) (46k drop)

July 6 - 980K & 1.019M (Q8+) (98k bump)

June 29 - 1.065M avg (Q5-Q8) (105K bump) [highest of night]

His only match that dropped numbers was the eliminator match against Takeshita. His quarters have down quite well as champion. It’s not surprising there was a lot of interest in him vs Punk.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Peerless said:


> Mox’s quarter ratings since he became interim champ:
> 
> 
> Aug 24- 1.198M (162K bump) (Q5) [highest of night]
> 
> Aug 17- 1.104M & 1.007M (98k bump) (Q1 and Q4) [highest of night]
> 
> Aug 10 - 968K & 1.003M (42k bump then 77k bump) (Q7 and Q8)
> 
> Aug 3 - no in ring segment
> 
> July 27 - 1.023M & 1.094M (Q1 and Q2) [highest of night]
> 
> July 20 - can’t find it (tag match with Yuta vs Best friends)
> 
> July 13 - 958k (Q3) (46k drop)
> 
> July 6 - 980K & 1.019M (Q8+) (98k bump)
> 
> June 29 - 1.065M avg (Q5-Q8) (105K bump) [highest of night]
> 
> His only match that dropped numbers was the eliminator match against Takeshita. His quarters have down quite well as champion. It’s not surprising there was a lot of interest in him vs Punk.


Mox is an actual needle mover 😎


----------



## Peerless

Randy Lahey said:


> Mox is an actual needle mover 😎


July 6-27 was actually an interesting period because he was in heat-less matches that didn’t have a build and the outcome was obvious. I expected worse numbers during that time period since he was up against Brody King, Takeshita, Best Friends, and Rush lol.


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Britt Baker got the women out of the mud.
> 
> @RapShepard I am once again asking you to please acknowledge the massive difference in Punk's segments and everyone else's. Yes, he is FAR more important than The Elite. Being a founder of the company has nothing to do with the interest you draw to the television program.*


This really isn't the week for that. By your own admission Punk and Moxley had such a divisive match that it running off viewers isn't a crazy argument. On top of that it's just illogical to go 

"Punk's world title unification match opposite of Moxley did better than The Elite vs guys who've appeared on Dynamite all of 4 times. Punk is such a better draw".


----------



## zkorejo

Showstopper said:


> That cat guy looks angry as hell that the other guy is giving him the jerk-off motion.


AEW section in a nutshell.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> This really isn't the week for that. By your own admission Punk and Moxley had such a divisive match that it running off viewers isn't a crazy argument. On top of that it's just illogical to go
> 
> "Punk's world title unification match opposite of Moxley did better than The Elite vs guys who've appeared on Dynamite all of 4 times. Punk is such a better draw".


*We have dozens of charts in this very thread that show Punk spiking ratings with standard promos in comparison to Young Bucks tag team matches absolutely tanking. This isn't an anomaly and you know it.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> View attachment 131420


punk brings in 200k fans

been that way since the beginning i’ve noticed (after the initial bump)

A lot of people always spoke about the lead in when he opened, but it was always 200k ish diff from the other Qs

here it is clear as day


----------



## Goku

The numbers look _insert adjective_.

I think it's _insert adjective_ that they did this particular thing but the other thing was less _insert same or different adjective_.

The company seems to be _insert verb_, being carried on the back of _insert wrestler_.

- several dozen NPCs.


----------



## IronMan8

Goku said:


> The numbers look _insert adjective_.
> 
> I think it's _insert adjective_ that they did this particular thing but the other thing was less _insert same or different adjective_.
> 
> The company seems to be _insert verb_, being carried on the back of _insert wrestler_.
> 
> - several dozen NPCs.


The numbers look _like a work_.

I think it's _totally a shoot t_hat they did this particular thing but the other thing was _less palatable for casual fans._

The company seems to be_ bringing in the casuals_, being carried on the back of_ Mark Stirling & Tanahashi._


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit Lioness said:


> *We have dozens of charts in this very thread that show Punk spiking ratings with standard promos in comparison to Young Bucks tag team matches absolutely tanking. This isn't an anomaly and you know it.*


Now what about Omega? Making the point that Punk in a unification match against Jon Moxley did better than Omega and The Bucks vs 3 guys with little exposure isn't a hoorah moment.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Goku said:


> The numbers look _insert adjective_.
> 
> I think it's _insert adjective_ that they did this particular thing but the other thing was less _insert same or different adjective_.
> 
> The company seems to be _insert verb_, being carried on the back of _insert wrestler_.
> 
> - several dozen NPCs.



The numbers look _delectable_

I think it's _ballsy_ that they did this particular thing but the other thing was less _batshit crazy_

The company seems to be _going ALL OUT,_ being carried on the back of _Takeshita & Orange Cassidy_

- Daddy LICC


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Now what about Omega? Making the point that Punk in a unification match against Jon Moxley did better than Omega and The Bucks vs 3 guys with little exposure isn't a hoorah moment.


*Okay, Ospreay did better than Omega's 9 month return after said controversial world title match and his segments have been some of the lowest since he came here. What now?*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

@RapShepard v @The Legit Lioness 

the irresistible force vs the immovable object 

will this thread even survive - we might be talking about these talking points still in 2023


----------



## DammitChrist

Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks hilariously hold one of the record high quarterly rated segments/matches in Dynamite's history in Fight for the Fallen 2021 (against the team of Adam Page/Dark Order); but sure, they apparently 'tank' the ratings even though those 3 men are primarily responsible for attracting a good portion of their NJPW fanbase into watching AEW 😂









AEW Dynamite Fight For The Fallen Draws Fourth-Most Viewers In Show History


Wednesday's live Fight for the Fallen edition of AEW Dynamite reportedly drew 1.108 million viewers on TNT, according to Brandon Thurston of Wrestlenomics. This is…




www.wrestlinginc.com


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Okay, Ospreay did better than Omega's 9 month return after said controversial world title match and his segments have been some of the lowest since he came here. What now?*


Will's peaks in AEW are lower than Omega's peaks so that's that. If you want to say Omega and The Bucks aren't big draws cool. But the best argument isn't 

"Punk and Moxley had a World Title Unification Match and it had 200k more viewers than The Elite vs Guys that don't even go here"

Punk and Moxley have a combined 15 years of National TV experience in WWE the number 1 brand in wrestling. Their World Title match only did 200k more eyes over The Elite with 3 years of US eyes and Aussie Open with 5 episodes of US eyes.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

If Bucks and Kenny left, the viewership will drop to 500k easy



RapShepard said:


> *Punk and Moxley have a combined 15 years of National TV experience in WWE the number 1 brand in wrestling. Their World Title match only did 200k more eyes over The Elite with 3 years of US eyes and Aussie Open with 5 episodes of US eyes.*


did you just argue FOR first mover and tenure advantage???

where’s @bdon


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> This really isn't the week for that. By your own admission Punk and Moxley had such a divisive match that it running off viewers isn't a crazy argument. On top of that it's just illogical to go
> 
> "Punk's world title unification match opposite of Moxley did better than The Elite vs guys who've appeared on Dynamite all of 4 times. Punk is such a better draw".










Punk and Moxley’s quarter hour barely broke into the Top 5.


----------



## bdon

“Omega can’t draw against Andrade who fans from the top 2 companies have been dragging as boring for years. News at 11!!!”


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> If Bucks and Kenny left, the viewership will drop to 500k easy
> 
> 
> 
> did you just argue FOR first mover and tenure advantage???
> 
> where’s @bdon


I ain’t even gotta say anything. Lol


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Will's peaks in AEW are lower than Omega's peaks so that's that. If you want to say Omega and The Bucks aren't big draws cool. But the best argument isn't
> 
> "Punk and Moxley had a World Title Unification Match and it had 200k more viewers than The Elite vs Guys that don't even go here"
> 
> Punk and Moxley have a combined 15 years of National TV experience in WWE the number 1 brand in wrestling. Their World Title match only did 200k more eyes over The Elite with 3 years of US eyes and Aussie Open with 5 episodes of US eyes.


Acting like Penta, Re Fenix, and Pac - three of AEW’s most popular acts in the early days - is the equivalent of Andrade, Rush, and Dragon Lee is crazy.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> If Bucks and Kenny left, the viewership will drop to 500k easy
> 
> 
> 
> did you just argue FOR first mover and tenure advantage???
> 
> where’s @bdon


Not necessarily, I still maintain if you're the one then you should do numbers and bring folk too you. 

But context is always important. To use a true mismatch regardless it's like going

"If Taker is such a big star why didn't him vs Mabel do the same or better numbers than Hogan vs Macho Man"


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Not necessarily, I still maintain if you're the one then you should do numbers and bring folk too you.
> 
> But context is always important. To use a true mismatch regardless it's like going
> 
> "If Taker is such a big star why didn't him vs Mabel do the same or better numbers than Hogan vs Macho Man"


----------



## kingfunkel

A trios match with relevantly little appeal loses 200k, shocker. Did they see the CM Punk/Mox outcome and turn it off? 
Be interesting to see next week's ratings. Usually they say this weeks ratings, are a reflection on last week's show.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Will's peaks in AEW are lower than Omega's peaks so that's that. If you want to say Omega and The Bucks aren't big draws cool.


*Yeah, that's my point. Will's ratings generally suck, yet more people stayed for him after a world title squash than Kenny, who wrestled his first match in 9 months.*



> But the best argument isn't
> 
> "Punk and Moxley had a World Title Unification Match and it had 200k more viewers than The Elite vs Guys that don't even go here"
> 
> Punk and Moxley have a combined 15 years of National TV experience in WWE the number 1 brand in wrestling. Their World Title match only did 200k more eyes over The Elite with 3 years of US eyes and Aussie Open with 5 episodes of US eyes.


*Again, what's your excuse when Punk's random promos do 1-200,000 more viewers than Elite try hard matches?*


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Yeah, that's my point. Will's ratings generally suck, yet more people stayed for him after a world title squash than Kenny, who wrestled his first match in 9 months.*
> 
> 
> *Again, what's your excuse when Punk's random promos do better than Elite try hard matches?*


The problem you're having is this.

If you want to say Punk is a bigger draw than Omega, I agree. 

But you're pretending that Punk is some light-years ahead of Omega draw and that's just simply not true. 




Take it in basketball terms 

As a LeBron fan I'd agree he's better than Kobe and KD, 2 rivals he's had at different points in his career. 

But I'd have to be in stan mode to pretend that Bron's name shouldn't be uttered with Kobe and KD.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> The problem you're having is this.
> 
> If you want to say Punk is a bigger draw than Omega, I agree.
> 
> But you're pretending that Punk is some light-years ahead of Omega draw and that's just simply not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take it in basketball terms
> 
> As a LeBron fan I'd agree he's better than Kobe and KD, 2 rivals he's had at different points in his career.
> 
> But I'd have to be in stan mode to pretend that Bron's name shouldn't be uttered with Kobe and KD.


*AEW has such little viewership that we have to use relative numbers to suggest who the "big draws" are. With WWE, we can see drops and gains between 1.5-2 million viewers, whereas in AEW, 200K is very significant, because their ceiling is 1 million. 

So considering that Punk and MJF are the only guys who have CONSISTENTLY gained upwards of 200k for their segments while the Elite either stagnate or plummet, it's safe to say that they shouldn't be in the same conversation. I can't stand Moxley, but he has a much better argument than the Elite.*


----------



## Not Lying

Literally all we need is last week evidence to know that 950K saw Omega return between 8:30-8:45, and dropped to 850K in 8:45-900K.
That’s facts. That’s hard numbers. Those parameters are solid. deal with it.

So 100K person saw Omega return and said “fuck this bot worth it”. That’s a hard pill to swallow for Elite fans i imagine.


----------



## bdon

Not Lying said:


> 131453[/ATTACH]
> "]
> Literally all we need is last week evidence to know that 950K saw Omega return between 8:30-8:45, and dropped to 850K in 8:45-900K.
> That’s facts. That’s hard one numbers. Those parameters are solid. deal with it.
> 
> So 100K person saw Omega return and said “fuck this bot worth it”. That’s a hard pill to swallow for Elite fans i imagine.


----------



## Irish Jet

Numbers exactly as expected. Hilarious how bad the ramifications of this may be. So many tuned into see _that match _and that's what they saw. 

I doubt I'm the only one they pushed away with that bullshit.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Irish Jet said:


> Numbers exactly as expected. Hilarious how bad the ramifications of this may be. So many tuned into see _that match _and that's what they saw.
> 
> I doubt I'm the only one they pushed away with that bullshit.


*I have seen every AEW PPV this year in a theatre, including Forbidden Door with the shitty build because I had a free voucher from them almost making us miss MJF vs. Wardlow the previous month, but am heavily considering skipping All Out. They completely destroyed the aura of the world title match. The women's fatal 4 way (that wasn't even planned) has me hanging on by a thread.*


----------



## Irish Jet

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I have seen every AEW PPV this year in a theatre, including Forbidden Door with the shitty build because I had a free voucher from them almost making us miss MJF vs. Wardlow the previous month, but am heavily considering skipping All Out. They completely destroyed the aura of the world title match. The women's fatal 4 way (that wasn't even planned) has me hanging on by a thread.*


There's as much chance of me competing at All Out as there is me watching it.


----------



## Irish Jet

Randy Lahey said:


> #2. The “death slot” isn’t 8:30. It’s simply when the least interesting part of the show is on, which is usually women. This time it was the Gunns. And not surprised since I don’t think people want to see Billy Gunn wrestle.


The women's quarter gained.

And the death slot is 9:30pm not 8:30pm. Women had been in that slot 9 of the last 10 weeks. This week that slot lost nearly 50,000 and it could have been four times that had Moxley/Punk gone longer. You've somehow brought attention to the evidence completely contradicting your point.


----------



## DammitChrist

Not Lying said:


> Literally all we need is last week evidence to know that 950K saw Omega return between 8:30-8:45, and dropped to 850K in 8:45-900K.
> That’s facts. That’s hard numbers. Those parameters are solid. deal with it.
> 
> So 100K person saw Omega return and said “fuck this bot worth it”. That’s a hard pill to swallow for Elite fans i imagine.


Except it's actually a hard pill to swallow by accepting the fact that Kenny Omega's grand return saw a nice boost in viewership for his return, and multiple members of the Elite still hold the record for having one of the highest quarterly segments in Dynamite history 

Those are truly cold, hard numbers here.

Yikes at pretending like Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks are 'anti-draws' when they practically brought a good portion of their audience from NJPW into watching AEW in the first place as a big alternative.


----------



## 3venflow

Here's the Canada pre-sale numbers. They should be able to squeeze more people into that building by opening hardcam seats and possibly using the lower/big show stage.

*AEW Presents "Dynamite"
Wed • Oct 12 • 7:00 PM
Coca-Cola Coliseum, Toronto, ON*

Available Tickets => 34
Current Setup/Capacity => 6,774
Tickets Distributed => 6,740

*AEW Presents "RAMPAGE"
Thu • Oct 13 • 7:00 PM
Coca-Cola Coliseum, Toronto, ON*

Available Tickets => 2,161
Current Setup/Capacity => 6,774
Tickets Distributed => 4,613


----------



## Jaxon

why such a small building?


----------



## Not Lying

DammitChrist said:


> Except it's actually a hard pill to swallow by accepting the fact that Kenny Omega's grand return saw a nice boost in viewership for his return, and multiple members of the Elite still hold the record for having one of the highest quarterly segments in Dynamite history
> 
> Those are truly cold, hard numbers here.
> 
> Yikes at pretending like Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks are 'anti-draws' when they practically brought a good portion of their audience from NJPW into watching AEW in the first place as a big alternative.


No the facts are 100K people tuned out after his return because they didn’t give a shit about seeing him and his goofy faces after 9 months.


----------



## Whoanma

@bdon once more, with feeling.


----------



## DammitChrist

Not Lying said:


> No the facts are 100K people tuned out after his return because they didn’t give a shit about seeing him and his goofy faces after 9 months.


Nah, you're just wrong. It's already been demonstrated that Kenny Omega's return saw a boost in viewership for that particular moment within the 9:30 PM through 9:45 PM time range; so dismissing him as an 'anti-draw' is simply laughable.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Yeah AEW totally undersold themselves in Canada. What a strange decision. Hopefully they get a proper building for the UK whenever that happens.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I have seen every AEW PPV this year in a theatre, including Forbidden Door with the shitty build because I had a free voucher from them almost making us miss MJF vs. Wardlow the previous month, but am heavily considering skipping All Out. They completely destroyed the aura of the world title match. The women's fatal 4 way (that wasn't even planned) has me hanging on by a thread.*


you’ll watch that shit and like it


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you’ll watch that shit and like it


Honestly, the fact that a tremendous worker in Tyler Bate will most likely lose his NXT United Kingdom title to Bron Breakker after JUST winning it 3 days earlier (at least on the NXT UK taping where he *officially* wins it) at Worlds Collide that same night makes watching All Out live an even easier decision


----------



## bdon

Not Lying said:


> No the facts are 100K people tuned out after his return because they didn’t give a shit about seeing him and his goofy faces after 9 months.


No, they’d didn’t care about Andrade (who every fan from WWE and AEW finds boring as shit) and 2 guys barely ever seen on Dynamite.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you’ll watch that shit and like it


*Yes, I will enjoy the women's match 🙂.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Yes, I will enjoy the women's match 🙂.*


you’ll enjoy the trios match and cheer for the Elite dammit!


----------



## FITZ

I don't really watch any wrestling show regularly anymore. If something seems interesting I'll watch, if the PPV card looks good I'll buy, and if they come to town for a show I'll go. I ended up doing what the general ratings trend was here. I watched the show when it started and turned it off after the title match. I understand why they booked it this way timing wise, like there's no shock that the title match lasts 3 minutes when the bell to start it rings at 9:54 P.M. But I was watching the show this week for the title match and once it ended I got what I wanted out of the show. 

Decent chance I'll watch the trios match because on paper it seemed really impressive.


----------



## 3venflow

Jaxon said:


> why such a small building?


Apparently, the Scotiabank Arena is booked by Michael Buble on the same night.

John Pollock is saying they should be able to eventually get 8,000 in for each show. Dynamite will hit it easily, Rampage may struggle to get there but you never know.

AEW is planning to run more live Rampages so hopefully they bump the quality of the cards.


----------



## IronMan8

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I have seen every AEW PPV this year in a theatre, including Forbidden Door with the shitty build because I had a free voucher from them almost making us miss MJF vs. Wardlow the previous month, but am heavily considering skipping All Out. They completely destroyed the aura of the world title match. The women's fatal 4 way (that wasn't even planned) has me hanging on by a thread.*


Their PPVs always deliver regardless of the build, and All Out is their biggest PPV of the year... it'll be better than the card looks I'm sure


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

IronMan8 said:


> Their PPVs always deliver regardless of the build, and All Out is their biggest PPV of the year... it'll be better than the card looks I'm sure


*I think Double Or Nothing this year and Exploding Barbwire Bullshit last year are the only disappointments. Forbidden Door was garbage on paper and overdelivered, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here. Athena should give Jade her best match, so I have something else to look forward to.*


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

3venflow said:


> Apparently, the Scotiabank Arena is booked by Michael Buble on the same night.
> 
> John Pollock is saying they should be able to eventually get 8,000 in for each show. Dynamite will hit it easily, Rampage may struggle to get there but you never know.
> 
> AEW is planning to run more live Rampages so hopefully they bump the quality of the cards.


Scotiabank Arena was booked for both nights. There's the Michael Bublé concert and then the next night is a Maple Leafs game. The Coca-Cola Coliseum was really their biggest option in the city.

By running two nights at Coca-Cola they are trying to ensure that they will move as close to as many tickets as they would had they been able to run Scotia on the Wednesday night. Rampage is being taped on the Thursday so it likely isn't about doing a live episode of the show.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 431,000
18-49: 0.11

Key demo was joint lowest in the past two months (#22 on cable), while viewership was down on August's other shows and up on 3/5 of July's shows.

*Last two months*

8/19: 461,000 / 0.12
8/12: 528,000 / 0.17
8/5: 468,000 / 0.15
7/29: 375,000 / 0.11
7/22: 428,000 / 0.17
7/15: 435,000 / 0.14
7/8: 428,000 / 0.15
7/1: 486,000 / 0.16 (Royal Rampage)

I just checked and at least three Rampages in October will be standalone and/or live events. The fourth is uncertain but the Dynamite before (on a Tuesday due to preemption) isn't currently advertised as a Dynamite/Rampage double event like usual.

October 7 is live Rampage plus the Battle of the Belts IV taping, October 13 is part of the Toronto double header, and October 28 is in Uncasville, CT two days after Dynamite in Norfolk, VA. The Canada one is being held on Thursday so either the TV timeslot moves that day or (more likely) it's a 24 hour delay. With these changes I'd expect Rampage to feel a lot more premium that month and probably bump the ratings.

Next week's Rampage is live as part of the NOW Arena triple header for All Out, but the rest of September is taped (inc. Grand Slam).


----------



## Hotdiggity11

AEW better hope for a decent rating for Dynamite considering the decisions made last week and because it's the go-home show for a quarterly PPV. Dynamite certainly didn't get more people to tune into Rampage based on that rating/viewership.


----------



## Randy Lahey

It sure seems like late Friday night wrestling is a loser. Need a different time slot


----------



## IronMan8

They didn't advertise anything of importance, so a drop is to be expected.

The bump 2 weeks ago was when they advertised "Danielson speaks" as the hook for tuning in and it worked

I watch regardless of what they advertise, but i guess they casuals need more of a hook to tune in. More Hook could help too.


----------



## FITZ

3venflow said:


> October 7 is live Rampage plus the Battle of the Belts IV taping, October 13 is part of the Toronto double header, and October 28 is in Uncasville, CT two days after Dynamite in Norfolk, VA. The Canada one is being held on Thursday so either the TV timeslot moves that day or (more likely) it's a 24 hour delay. With these changes I'd expect Rampage to feel a lot more premium that month and probably bump the ratings.
> 
> Next week's Rampage is live as part of the NOW Arena triple header for All Out, but the rest of September is taped (inc. Grand Slam).


I'm suspicious of the October 28th Rampage. 

Rampage as it's own event is happening in Chicago as part of All Out Weekend, Washington DC as part of Battle of Belts AND Dynamite being at the same venue the Wednesday before, and part of double shot in Toronto. 

October 28th at Mohegan Sun is the only one that is a stand alone Rampage that isn't just in the same city that week as Dynamite. It makes me wonder if they have some other plans for that weekend. Especially when New Japan has a show in New York on October 28th as well...


----------



## Aedubya

.92 is the guess


----------



## La Parka

3 people is my guess


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 1,020,000
18-49: 0.35

#2 on cable (behind Serena Williams).

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

8/24 1,049,000 / 0.34
8/17: 957,000 / 0.30
8/10: 972,000 / 0.33
8/3: 938,000 / 0.32
7/27: 976,000 / 0.33
7/20: 910,000 / 0.32
7/13: 942,000 / 0.32
7/6: 979,000 / 0.36


----------



## RainmakerV2

A mil but not number 1. I'm so confused on whether this is good or not. Halp


----------



## Joe Gill

anything above 1 million is solid....and they didnt have to hot shot any world title matches this time.
i think all the behind the scenes drama and clusterfuck of a situation is leading to more curious viewers 
the product hasnt improved but the uncertainty and unpredictability has. 
shoot work angles might pay off for aew...even if it leads to chaos behind the scenes


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> A mil but not number 1. I'm so confused on whether this is good or not. Halp


If you use your logic machine, then you’ll see the demo is stable - so for a lead up to a PPV its a little disappointing but hardly a horrorshow

just stable


----------



## HoneyBee

RainmakerV2 said:


> A mil but not number 1. I'm so confused on whether this is good or not. Halp


Good going for AEW, two weeks in a row.

A mill for the go home show can only be a good thing, hopefully the world title match sells a few more PPVs.


----------



## 3venflow

It was their highest number in the key demo for almost two months against a strong competitor (Serena's retirement tour) so I think that's a good number. Last year for the equivalent show during their summer hot streak that everyone references, they did 0.37/1.047m, so quite similar really.


----------



## Uncle Iroh

I feel wrestling has more buzz and the hottest it's been in what feels like a while.

There's a buzz around WWE with HHH now in charge and it's shown in their ratings, it wouldn't surprise me if the eyes on that product are also meaning we see more eyes on AEW in the process, even if that's just AEW fans deciding to tune in live. We were pretty used to Raw getting 1.7m and AEW getting 850k or so each week just a few months ago. Now for 2 weeks running, WWE have had 2m and Dynamite on 1m. That's nearly 400k increase in wrestling fans watching live. Can only be good news.


----------



## jobber77

Really didn't think that many cared for such a boring sport as tennis


----------



## Geeee

Uncle Iroh said:


> I feel wrestling has more buzz and the hottest it's been in what feels like a while.
> 
> There's a buzz around WWE with HHH now in charge and it's shown in their ratings, it wouldn't surprise me if the eyes on that product are also meaning we see more eyes on AEW in the process, even if that's just AEW fans deciding to tune in live. We were pretty used to Raw getting 1.7m and AEW getting 850k or so each week just a few months ago. Now for 2 weeks running, WWE have had 2m and Dynamite on 1m. That's nearly 400k increase in wrestling fans watching live. Can only be good news.


a strong WWE is great for the whole business.


----------



## drougfree

decent rating , Mox vs Punk feud is working


----------



## La Parka

jobber77 said:


> Really didn't think that many cared for such a boring sport as tennis


Its the second biggest sporting event in america. 

Only the Mets and Yankees mid july classic is held in higher regard.


----------



## JasmineAEW

jobber77 said:


> Really didn't think that many cared for such a boring sport as tennis


Normally they wouldn’t. But yesterday featured Serena Williams and her epic upset over the No. 2 seed. It was the talk of the sports world.


----------



## RapShepard

Good on them


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Good number


----------



## BIIIG Nige

RainmakerV2 said:


> A mil but not number 1. I'm so confused on whether this is good or not. Halp


Anything above 900k is smashing it.


----------



## The real Axel

Another win for the dubbalos. It hurts to see but there's always another week.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Good number and nice improvement in the demo. Last year they were getting awfully close to .50 in the codger demo (50+) and . 44 feels like the highest in a while for that particular age group.

If they keep putting on good shows, they should get some momentum and keep pulling in what are good numbers for them. Summer is nearing its end though and we'll see how much havoc first run network programming and sports wreak on them.

Positive number heading into ALL OUT.


----------



## bdon

SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE said:


> Good number and nice improvement in the demo. Last year they were getting awfully close to .50 in the codger demo (50+) and . 44 feels like the highest in a while for that particular age group.
> 
> If they keep putting on good shows, they should get some momentum and keep pulling in what are good numbers for them. Summer is nearing its end though and we'll see how much havoc first run network programming and sports wreak on them.
> 
> Positive number heading into ALL OUT.


I have enjoyed the formatting of the show. No reason to do like they were doing for the better part of the year in having Punk open, followed by Bryan, followed by a Mox or MJF, followed by Adam Cole, followed by Malakai, etc.

Split the stars up with breather segments and characters in between, and you are less likely to have people changing the channel at a given time, risking them not returning at any point in the night.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## bdon

Whoanma said:


>


----------



## DUSTY 74




----------



## CovidFan

People watching until Punk leaves . Must be a coincidence.


----------



## Irish Jet

Holy fuck Omega and The Bucks are trash lol. Literal channel changers. Where were the guys arguing he was a bigger draw than Punk?!?! 🤣

What a decision to build the show around a trios division. Tony will cite ratings to laugh at the idea of featuring his women’s champion but will put this Meltzer porn nonsense as their main event every week lmao. We could have had the Bucks vs FTR…

Actually a better number than I expected on the whole. They maintained more of those who tuned in last week than I thought they would. Mox-Punk has people invested, whether that shows with buyrate I’m not so sure.


----------



## bdon

Trios titles were always fucking stupid. Always. Elite, Punk and FTR, New Day, the fucking Free Birds… Don’t matter. American audiences do not give a fuck about trios matches enough to justify a title.

I mean, TK apparently had plans of doing a Punk and FTR trios match with Ospreay and Aussie Open on the Forbidden Door PPV. Your world fucking champion, and he’s going to do a goddamn trios match on what amounts to dream card scenarios?

Stupid. One of the “alternative” ideas that I have never enjoyed.


----------



## bdon

Huh? Lol


----------



## bdon

Bryan Danielson once again losing massive amounts of viewers EARLY in the show. They need to figure something out for him.


----------



## DammitChrist

Yea, those quarterly ratings are weird.

Did the #1 most watched program last night take place during the 2nd hour of Dynamite?


----------



## DUSTY 74

Oh they meant something on The Freebird’s but it was a moment in time and a specific combination of combustible parts that flickered Bright , Lit up Fast , Burned HOT , and left a timeless mark in a specific Territory and now it was simply a gimmick the actual players involved in that feud were what the people were so passionate about over those 17 months but it was a unique way at the time to create another Avenue for them to meet in the squared circle and it did its job


----------



## bdon

DUSTY 74 said:


> Oh they meant something on The Freebird’s but it was a moment in time and a specific combination of combustible parts that flickered Bright , Lit up Fast , Burned HOT , and left a timeless mark in a specific Territory and now it was simply a gimmick the actual players involved in that feud were what the people were so passionate about over those 17 months but it was a unique way at the time to create another Avenue for them to meet in the squared circle and it did its job


But it wasn’t a trios title. It was just them working tag titles with whichever 2 members they wanted. Trios matches are too much of a clusterfuck and can’t keep a running narrative throughout the match. The only reason the Trios matches make any sense currently was for the glimpse of Omega and Ospreay, which isn’t a sustainable story weekly within the realm of trios matches.

We have ALL bitched about the goddamn multiman matches for 3 years. They fucking suck and are goofy.


----------



## DUSTY 74

bdon said:


> But it wasn’t a trios title. It was just them working tag titles with whichever 2 members they wanted. Trios matches are too much of a clusterfuck and can’t keep a running narrative throughout the match. The only reason the Trios matches make any sense currently was for the glimpse of Omega and Ospreay, which isn’t a sustainable story weekly within the realm of trios matches.
> 
> We have ALL bitched about the goddamn multiman matches for 3 years. They fucking suck and are goofy.



I’m referring to the World Class Wrestling Six man Tag Titles

Von Erich‘s Freebirds one of the Greatest feuds of All Time


----------



## Jay Trotter

Punk and Moxley carrying the show for the third straight week. Real stars in intriguing unpredictable stories. That will always be the key to drawing ratings on TV and getting fans talking on the IWC.

Wow. Omega in the main event flops hard for the second time in last three weeks. You would think in his big return after nine months away he would see a increase over a decrease in numbers. At the very least you wanna hold steady instead of losing this many. Look at last weeks breakdown. Ospreay and AO did much better in the main event against Death Triangle over Omega and Bucks.


----------



## Peerless

Seems like Mox-Punk is AEW's biggest ever draw as a feud. All their quarters have had +1M since Punk came back. Their youtube videos are doing +1M views too. It'll be interesting to see what All Out does with PPV buys.


----------



## bdon

DUSTY 74 said:


> I’m referring to the World Class Wrestling Six man Tag Titles
> 
> Von Erich‘s Freebirds one of the Greatest feuds of All Time
> 
> View attachment 131934
> 
> View attachment 131935


Ahhh. Going way back in the vault.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

bdon said:


> View attachment 131932
> 
> Huh? Lol




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565505727346917377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565505732451209216

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DUSTY 74

bdon said:


> View attachment 131932
> 
> Huh? Lol


🤣😂

He corrected it


----------



## bdon

DUSTY 74 said:


> 🤣😂
> 
> He corrected it
> View attachment 131936


He really trying to make Bryan look like he lost over a 100k viewers TWICE on the same show. Haha


----------



## 3venflow

QH6 was when the biggest chunk of viewers tuned out. Serena Williams' match seemed to finish around 9:20pm, which I have a feeling had an effect on Dynamite since it was a big deal in America and that is when Dynamite had that sudden fall after great consistency. The losses after that were negligible compared to the QH6 drop which stands out.

The show seemed to have a strong start too, not sure if that was due to the BBT lead-in (I mean, it hasn't always helped this much) or Mox being sent straight out there.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Big collapse shortly after Punk's promo was done. Started strong and kept a good bit above a million, but the trios match main event didn't work to hold interest from most of the night. Though it was probably the right main event match given the card, they really should've made the contract signing thing more of a theme throughout the night and had that close the show. Backstage segment with Ace giving Punk the contract but Punk handing it back to Ace and saying he'd go out there later in the night to respond. Maybe even do the first part of his promo he did live backstage, and then when he closes the show he gives the fired up promo he gave to end the night. 

AEW rarely has promo segments close and that's fine, but Punk/Moxley is where the biggest interest is right now and starting with it, running a theme of it throughout the night, and then closing the show with it was the way to go.


----------



## Kishido

Will and Kenny are mega draws!


----------



## One Shed

Heatless spotfests lead to more channel buttons being pushed than moves during the matchs.


----------



## DammitChrist

Jay Trotter said:


> Punk and Moxley carrying the show for the third straight week. Real stars in intriguing unpredictable stories. That will always be the key to drawing ratings on TV and getting fans talking on the IWC.
> 
> Wow. Omega in the main event flops hard for the second time in last three weeks. You would think in his big return after nine months away he would see a increase over a decrease in numbers. At the very least you wanna hold steady instead of losing this many. Look at last weeks breakdown. Ospreay and AO did much better in the main event against Death Triangle over Omega and Bucks.


Except for the fact that the overall ratings have clearly been higher around 1+ million viewers ever since Kenny Omega made his long-awaited return, so no, you're clearly wrong here.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> Goofy multiman matches lead to more channel buttons being pushed than moves during the matchs.


FIFY


----------



## GarpTheFist

Irish Jet said:


> Holy fuck Omega and The Bucks are trash lol. Literal channel changers. Where were the guys arguing he was a bigger draw than Punk?!?! 🤣
> 
> What a decision to build the show around a trios division. Tony will cite ratings to laugh at the idea of featuring his women’s champion but will put this Meltzer porn nonsense as their main event every week lmao. We could have had the Bucks vs FTR…
> 
> Actually a better number than I expected on the whole. They maintained more of those who tuned in last week than I thought they would. Mox-Punk has people invested, whether that shows with buyrate I’m not so sure.


Tbf, Bryans match saw a much bigger drop, so much for him being a draw. He's constantly been losing viewers ever since he came back.


----------



## bdon

GarpTheFist said:


> Tbf, Bryans match saw a much bigger drop, so much for him being a draw. He's constantly been losing viewers ever since he came back.


Shhhh. It’s not as fun or in line with the narratives.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> FIFY


Both statements are correct.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

jobber77 said:


> Really didn't think that many cared for such a boring sport as tennis


They do when Serena plays! She's the GOAT!


----------



## Dr. Middy

You know, I do wonder if they flipped the entire show around how it would do. So just make mentions throughout the show about Punk making an announcement in the main event or something, and open with the 6 man tag match.


----------



## bdon

Dr. Middy said:


> You know, I do wonder if they flipped the entire show around how it would do. So just make mentions throughout the show about Punk making an announcement in the main event or something, and open with the 6 man tag match.


Yeah. It’s weird to not start with a hot, fast paced match to set the mood.

But I’m also a child of the Monday Night Nitro days, so I expect a certain format to shows.


----------



## Jay Trotter

DammitChrist said:


> Except for the fact that the overall ratings have clearly been higher around 1+ million viewers ever since Kenny Omega made his long-awaited return, so no, you're clearly wrong here.


Sorry. Nope. You can't argue against the facts. Omega's quarter hours speak for themselves in his first return to action since Nov. Not boosting the ratings on his end. Why is he losing this many viewers in back to back main events on the 17th and 31st? Why did Aussie Open vs Death Triangle on the 24th do so much better? Ratings are up cause Punk is back after two months gone. Ratings are up cause Moxley is being booked like a star once again. If you put them together in a compelling story, you're gonna do better business. Omega might have done great quarters a year ago for a few weeks as one of his fans keeps posting a dozen times a day in topic after topic. But the truth is he was in the can't miss spot of being apart of Bryan's FIRST weeks in AEW. It easy to draw big numbers in the DEBUT match, promo, and segment of one of WWE's biggest stars of the 2010's.


----------



## Lady Eastwood

jobber77 said:


> Really didn't think that many cared for such a boring sport as tennis


Serena Williams is retiring so people are all over her last tournament.


----------



## RainmakerV2

No one stuck around for the main event gymnastics routine eh. Tough.


----------



## DammitChrist

Jay Trotter said:


> Sorry. Nope. You can't argue against the facts. Omega's quarter hours speak for themselves in his first return to action since Nov. Not boosting the ratings on his end. Why is he losing this many viewers in back to back main events on the 17th and 31st? Why did Aussie Open vs Death Triangle on the 24th do so much better? Ratings are up cause Punk is back after two months gone. Ratings are up cause Moxley is being booked like a star once again. If you put them together in a compelling story, you're gonna do better business. Omega might have done great quarters a year ago for a few weeks as one of his fans keeps posting a dozen times a day in topic after topic. But the truth is he was in the can't miss spot of being apart of Bryan's FIRST weeks in AEW. It easy to draw big numbers in the DEBUT match, promo, and segment of one of WWE's biggest stars of the 2010's.


Once again, you're still wrong since there was a noticeable boost in viewership for Kenny Omega's quarter (which was Q7) a couple of weeks ago since many wrestling fans clearly wanted to see his grand return. You keep pretending like he's 'tanking' the viewership when the guy still holds one of the highest quarterly rated segments in Dynamite's short history (along with the Young Bucks too), which occurred multiple times btw. Fight for the Fallen 2021 alone debunks your whole myth since that was at least a month before CM Punk and Bryan Danielson even made their respective AEW debuts, and that whole 30+ minute segment with the Elite drew over a million viewers too.

Plus, it was already pointed out that the second half of the 2nd hour was competing against Serena Williams on a different program. You might want to use real context and valid reasoning instead of providing misleading arguments regarding these statistics 



RainmakerV2 said:


> No one stuck around for the main event gymnastics routine eh. Tough.


What are you even talking about? 

The total number of people who saw that awesome main event is approximately 900,000x more than what you're stating here.

Edit:

Anyway, it's rough getting crickets since that hyperbole wasn't amusing.


----------



## Uncle Iroh

Trios title look sketchy ratings wise. Last week's trios main event also lost about the same.


----------



## Joe Gill

TK needs to stop listening to the vocal minority indy geeks that chant this is awsome during ballet routines and focus more on storylines and larger than life characters. What drew people into dynamite this week was all centered around punk and moxley and the potential rematch...once that was resolved no one gave a shit about the random matches and omegas in ring orgasms


----------



## bdon

Uncle Iroh said:


> Trios title look sketchy ratings wise. Last week's trios main event also lost about the same.


Trios and multiman matches always lose viewers. I’m an Omega fan, and I was praying he’d not be involved in the trios. Is that because I no longer enjoy Omega? No, it’s because trios and multiman matches fucking suck!

Anyone who watched that match last night could easily see what was worth watching was Omega and Ospreay, so everything else is just pointless filler.


----------



## Not Lying

I’m just laughing my ass off at The Elite killing the ratings again with their 6man bullshit.
No one gives a shit about their video game wrestling.
Those 6men matches with Gallows and Anderson esrly in Omega’s run killed a lot of AEW’s momentum.
Atlantic Title..
Trios title..

a lot of bullshit being served up recently. Like wtf.

Punk and Mox doing what they do best.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DUSTY 74 said:


> View attachment 131930


those +50s sure love Mox and Punk

definitely fed fam


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> Bryan Danielson once again losing massive amounts of viewers EARLY in the show. They need to figure something out for him.


Honestly? You dont just think like 150k people still had the channel on after TBBT ended? You can put whomever in that first quarter, when it starts close to 1.2m there will always be a big drop. Even Omega couldnt hold that 1.2m


----------



## Not Lying

Also good job for the ladies holding the ratings in Hour 1. 
Put some respect on Shida’s name.


----------



## DammitChrist

Not Lying said:


> I’m just laughing my ass off at The Elite killing the ratings again with their 6man bullshit.
> No one gives a shit about their video game wrestling.
> Those 6men matches with Gallows and Anderson esrly in Omega’s run killed a lot of AEW’s momentum.
> Atlantic Title..
> Trios title..
> 
> a lot of bullshit being served up recently. Like wtf.
> 
> Punk and Mox doing what they do best.


I'm laughing at the fact that the Elite still currently hold one of the highest quarterly segments in Dynamite history (with Fight at the Fallen 2021 and the post-All Out episode last year) and the fact that Dynamite's overall ratings managed to get even higher ratings with all 3 men reuniting weeks ago, which automatically debunks your inaccurate statement here 😂

They're also a big reason why this company even exists, and why many wrestling fans who watched NJPW followed them into AEW years ago.

The Elite keeping the ratings stable yet again is quite admirable to behold


----------



## kingfunkel

Is this the 3rd week in a row, that a trios tournament has tanked the ratings?


----------



## Not Lying

DammitChrist said:


> I'm laughing at the fact that the Elite still currently hold one of the highest quarterly segments in Dynamite history (with Fight at the Fallen 2021 and the post-All Out episode last year) and the fact that Dynamite's overall ratings managed to get even higher ratings with all 3 men reuniting weeks ago, which automatically debunks your inaccurate statement here 😂
> 
> They're also a big reason why this company even exists, and why many wrestling fans who watched NJPW followed them into AEW years ago.
> 
> The Elite keeping the ratings stable yet again is quite admirable to behold


Doesn’t debunk anything.

Bryan’s debut and the post all out buzz got AEW that high Q, not the Shitlite.

They tuned in to see him in a quarter with 1 commercial, while Q6 had 2 commercials, and then Q8 dropped again by 100K. Meaning they didn’t care to stick till the end.
Main event should increase viewers and they fail everytime.

The Elite might b me why company exist, but they’re the reason they don’t grow.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Oh look the young bucks dropped the ratings once again. This seems to be a reoccurring theme now its always the women or the bucks at the bottom tier. And it doesnt matter what spot on the card they are on first, middle or last.

Nobody likes these flippy clowns.


----------



## DammitChrist

Not Lying said:


> Doesn’t debunk anything.


It was already debunked.



> Bryan’s debut and the post all out buzz got AEW that high Q,


That doesn't explain their impressive 1+ million quarters for Fight at the Fallen 2021 though.

If they were the 'anti-draws' that you pretend that the Elite are here, then that high rated quarterly segment with Bryan Danielson and Adam Cole last year on the post-All Out 2021 episode would've never happened at all.



> not the Shitlite.


Who?

That group isn't in AEW.



> They tuned in to see him in a quarter with 1 commercial, while Q6 had 2 commercials, and then Q8 dropped again by 100K. Meaning they didn’t care to stick till the end.


Ooh, but yet the Elite are largely responsible for bringing a good portion of NJPW viewers into watching this fun alternative in AEW; *and* there still ended up being a noticeable boost in viewership to see Kenny Omega's epic return after being gone for 9 months. It's almost like they have a big fanbase that largely tune in to see those 3 guys regardless of these random fluctuation of the ratings that inevitably lead to misleading arguments about 'anti-draws.'.



> Main event should increase viewers and they fail everytime.


Nah, the competition regarding Serena Williams was already pointed multiple times earlier.



> The Elite might b me why company exist, but they’re the reason they don’t grow.


It *already* did grow *because* of the Elite. Without them, there is no big wrestling alternative.

Depushing the Elite is an automatic no buys, and a massive red flag.



CenaBoy4Life said:


> Oh look the young bucks dropped the ratings once again. This seems to be a reoccurring theme now its always the women or the bucks at the bottom tier. And it doesnt matter what spot on the card they are on first, middle or last.
> 
> *Nobody likes these flippy clowns.*


Except for approximately 1 million fans that like the Young Bucks (along with that rowdy Chicago crowd last night on Dynamite), and a good portion of those people that followed them to AEW; which invalidates your first paragraph too


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

CM Punk keep proving why he is the biggest name in the promotion while the elite tanking the ratings time and time again. Water is wet.


----------



## Irish Jet

GarpTheFist said:


> Tbf, Bryans match saw a much bigger drop, so much for him being a draw. He's constantly been losing viewers ever since he came back.


Bryan was booked into irrelevance months ago. Tony has destroyed him. He’s basically Moxley’s bitch.


----------



## Jaxon

thats a big drop considering who was in the main, can anyone explain why


----------



## bdon

kingfunkel said:


> Is this the 3rd week in a row, that a trios tournament has tanked the ratings?


Every time. Not just the tournament either. We ALL moan when we see anymore than a typical tag team. They are and have almost always been nothing more than a clusterfuck. 

Look what the hottest, most prioritized feud in the company at the time did back in December:









We know Sting, Punk, MJF, etc all hold their own in quarter hour breakdowns. Yet, even THEY couldn’t hold viewers for what is a very well crafted, story-driven feud. I be DAMNED if I am going to believe anyone turns the channels because of Sting. 

MULTIMAN MATCHES DO NOT WORK!

Seriously, who amongst us enjoys these? I’ll be shocked if anyone really prefers seeing that shit.


----------



## Jaxon

bdon said:


> Every time. Not just the tournament either. We ALL moan when we see anymore than a typical tag team. They are and have almost always been nothing more than a clusterfuck.
> 
> Look what the hottest, most prioritized feud in the company at the time did back in December:
> 
> View attachment 131952
> 
> We know Sting, Punk, MJF, etc all hold their own in quarter hour breakdowns. Yet, even THEY couldn’t hold viewers for what is a very well crafted, story-driven feud. I be DAMNED if I am going to believe anyone turns the channels because of Sting.
> 
> MULTIMAN MATCHES DO NOT WORK!
> 
> Seriously, who amongst us enjoys these? I’ll be shocked if anyone really prefers seeing that shit.


i understand what you are saying but i thought people would be more excited to see Will and Omega in the ring together if im honest


----------



## bdon

Jaxon said:


> i understand what you are saying but i thought people would be more excited to see Will and Omega in the ring together if im honest


They would, but you can feel the lull in the match every time Omega and Ospreay weren’t in there together, which again defeats the purpose. No one wants to have to sit through the bullshit to wait for the good part. EVERYONE wanted to see Punk and MJF, yet they didn’t hold the initial bump. EVERYONE loves seeing Sting, yet he didn’t hold the initial bump.

Multiman matches fucking suck.


----------



## bdon

They might be able to get away with the occasional 6-man match, but it needs to be at the start of a show to get the crowd moving and, more importantly, don’t go 20+ fucking minutes. Keep it simple. 10-12 minutes tops. That match had 2 ad breaks. Why does a 6-man match need 2 ad breaks? If you know Will and Kenny are going to be money, then why not give them just a taste, get in, get out, and leave them wanting more?

Love AEW, but goddamn if there aren’t a few things they get inherently wrong.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Every time. Not just the tournament either. We ALL moan when we see anymore than a typical tag team. They are and have almost always been nothing more than a clusterfuck.
> 
> Look what the hottest, most prioritized feud in the company at the time did back in December:
> 
> View attachment 131952
> 
> We know Sting, Punk, MJF, etc all hold their own in quarter hour breakdowns. Yet, even THEY couldn’t hold viewers for what is a very well crafted, story-driven feud. I be DAMNED if I am going to believe anyone turns the channels because of Sting.
> 
> MULTIMAN MATCHES DO NOT WORK!
> 
> Seriously, who amongst us enjoys these? I’ll be shocked if anyone really prefers seeing that shit.


i like multiman matches


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i like multiman matches


I know you do, but you also know and understand the realities of them, right? Lol


----------



## Aedubya

-----Anything above 0.80 is ok, Anything above 0.85 is good, anything above 0.9 is v good , anything above 0.95 is brilliant , anything above 1.0 is outstanding-----

OUTSTANDING


----------



## MEMS

Tony has to stop booking non AEW talent in big spots. As amazing a talent Ospreay is, a huge chunk of your viewers don't know him or his buddies. Doing your main roster a big disservice by giving guys like that major spots. You want to book Ospreay in main events? Wait for him to become available, sign him, and properly introduce him to your audience.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I know you do, but you also know and understand the realities of them, right? Lol


course - I am after all not blind XD


----------



## 3venflow

I'll reiterate, that sharp fall in Q6 came right around the time Serena Williams was serving for the match in her farewell tour. AEW is generally quite consistent across the board with the men. If it does 800k, 900k or 1m viewers, it'll typically be steady across the board, except sometimes the women at 9:30pm. So sharp drops in a male segment like Q6 are usually an anomaly. The AFP tweeted Serena's win at 9:17pm on Tuesday and that was in Q6 of Dynamite when Moxley was giving his second promo. So technically, Moxley was likely losing the viewers, but I think clearly there's mitigating circumstances here. If the trios match had opened the show and and Hager vs. Danielson headlined, their numbers would have been reversed. That's my impression anyway.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

bdon said:


> Every time. Not just the tournament either. We ALL moan when we see anymore than a typical tag team. They are and have almost always been nothing more than a clusterfuck.
> 
> Look what the hottest, most prioritized feud in the company at the time did back in December:
> 
> View attachment 131952
> 
> We know Sting, Punk, MJF, etc all hold their own in quarter hour breakdowns. Yet, even THEY couldn’t hold viewers for what is a very well crafted, story-driven feud. I be DAMNED if I am going to believe anyone turns the channels because of Sting.
> 
> MULTIMAN MATCHES DO NOT WORK!
> 
> Seriously, who amongst us enjoys these? I’ll be shocked if anyone really prefers seeing that shit.


Um... what?

While I agree 6-man tags are generally trash and skippable, the one you just posted here proves that they can maintain interest throughout a show and be the highest quarter of the night. Not drop 100-150k from where most of the night was hovering around (like the Elite/Ospreay and crew match did). Surely you can find a better example than this? Even then, you've already proven 6-man tag matches CAN maintain interest.

Just to be clear, nothing really deserves blame for the final 3 quarters flopping besides the main event. That was the big advertised close to the show with stakes (and a potential tease of a "dream match"), and it flopped. To be fair though, I think pretty much any match was doomed to fail in that spot. The Punk segment should've closed as that was the story keeping people tuned in based on the quarter numbers. Once that happened, nobody expected the follow up Moxley promo (I missed it live myself and had to DVR rewind it), or anything else of note to happen regarding it, and a bunch tuned out. The base AEW audience stayed though, which is right around that 900k mark.


----------



## bdon

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Um... what?
> 
> While I agree 6-man tags are generally trash and skippable, the one you just posted here proves that they can maintain interest throughout a show and be the highest quarter of the night. Not drop 100-150k from where most of the night was hovering around (like the Elite/Ospreay and crew match did). Surely you can find a better example than this? Even then, you've already proven 6-man tag matches CAN maintain interest.
> 
> Just to be clear, nothing really deserves blame for the final 3 quarters flopping besides the main event. That was the big advertised close to the show with stakes (and a potential tease of a "dream match"), and it flopped. To be fair though, I think pretty much any match was doomed to fail in that spot. The Punk segment should've closed as that was the story keeping people tuned in based on the quarter numbers. Once that happened, nobody expected the follow up Moxley promo (I missed it live myself and had to DVR rewind it), or anything else of note to happen regarding it, and a bunch tuned out. The base AEW audience stayed though, which is right around that 900k mark.


The match above saw an initial spike in interest, yet with all of those guys involved, they STILL saw a decrease by the end. If we’re going to ham up guys losing 4k viewers over 2 quarter hours, then we have to point out that a segment with Sting, Darby, Punk, and MJF in a hotly contested, story-driven feud still lost viewers into that final quarter hour.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

bdon said:


> The match above saw an initial spike in interest, yet with all of those guys involved, they STILL saw a decrease by the end. If we’re going to ham up guys losing 4k viewers over 2 quarter hours, then we have to point out that a segment with Sting, Darby, Punk, and MJF in a hotly contested, story-driven feud still lost viewers into that final quarter hour.


It's not about them losing 4k in 2 quarters (they actually lost about 33k but even that's not a huge deal on it's own for a show doing a million). It's about most of the show doing 1.05 million, and while it dropped for Q6, the 6-man tag didn't recover the audience. It was in that 900k spot which was down 100k+ for a match that should've done better. Hell, it dropped even more from where Q6 dropped which is even worse.

The breakdown you posted showed the Punk/Sting/Darby vs. MJF guys itself gained on most of the show, although that episode as a whole was very consistent. Maybe because of the strong main event that kept most of them, maybe due to outside factors and people were just watching the full show that night.


----------



## bdon

#BadNewsSanta said:


> It's not about them losing 4k in 2 quarters (they actually lost about 33k but even that's not a huge deal on it's own for a show doing a million). It's about most of the show doing 1.05 million, and while it dropped for Q6, the 6-man tag didn't recover the audience. It was in that 900k spot which was down 100k+ for a match that should've done better. Hell, it dropped even more from where Q6 dropped which is even worse.
> 
> The breakdown you posted showed the Punk/Sting/Darby vs. MJF guys itself gained on most of the show, although that episode as a whole was very consistent. Maybe because of the strong main event that kept most of them, maybe due to outside factors and people were just watching the full show that night.


You’re right. I looked at the number wrong.

Point remains, 6-man/multiman matches do not maintain an audience over 2 quarters. Time and time again. You had Punk in goddamn 1986 Sting facepaint, popped the rating, and proceeded to have a portion of those same people tuning out by the second half of that match. And this was THE TOP FEUD IN THE COMPANY.

All of the story time, promo time, and everything else has been given to that feud, and it still lost viewers over the course of 2quarter hours. Seeing 3 generations of wrestlers honoring my boy Sting was a sight to fucking see, no doubt, but by the second half of that match, a few had enough. Top feud in the company.

6-man/multiman matches just don’t work for American audiences, bro. Lol


----------



## Not Lying

3venflow said:


> I'll reiterate, that sharp fall in Q6 came right around the time Serena Williams was serving for the match in her farewell tour. AEW is generally quite consistent across the board with the men. If it does 800k, 900k or 1m viewers, it'll typically be steady across the board, except sometimes the women at 9:30pm. So sharp drops in a male segment like Q6 are usually an anomaly. The AFP tweeted Serena's win at 9:17pm on Tuesday and that was in Q6 of Dynamite when Moxley was giving his second promo. So technically, Moxley was likely losing the viewers, but I think clearly there's mitigating circumstances here. If the trios match had opened the show and and Hager vs. Danielson headlined, their numbers would have been reversed. That's my impression anyway.


So I get that by 9:40 all Serena’s stuff should have been over and Q8 should have recovered but it didn’t. 
I doubt there’s much crossover between Women Tennis and AEW.


----------



## Irish Jet

3venflow said:


> I'll reiterate, that sharp fall in Q6 came right around the time Serena Williams was serving for the match in her farewell tour. AEW is generally quite consistent across the board with the men. If it does 800k, 900k or 1m viewers, it'll typically be steady across the board, except sometimes the women at 9:30pm. So sharp drops in a male segment like Q6 are usually an anomaly. The AFP tweeted Serena's win at 9:17pm on Tuesday and that was in Q6 of Dynamite when Moxley was giving his second promo. So technically, Moxley was likely losing the viewers, but I think clearly there's mitigating circumstances here. If the trios match had opened the show and and Hager vs. Danielson headlined, their numbers would have been reversed. That's my impression anyway.


Literally the exact same thing happened the previous week involving the same jerkoff acrobats.


----------



## 3venflow

Irish Jet said:


> Literally the exact same thing happened the previous week involving the same jerkoff acrobats.


All but two quarter hours (one of them being the unification match) last week lost viewers, so should we blame the rest of the roster too? Punk vs. Mox was the main attraction and when that went on, people started to turn off. Those 'jerkoff acrobats' have done some of AEW's top quarter hours in its history, too. Omega has been in the highest rated QH in four of AEW's five most watched Dynamites after the debut. So trying to turn a personal dislike against certain wrestlers into some kind of evidence they are channel changers is wrong. Like I said, if you had swapped Hager/Danielson with the trios match on Wednesday, their numbers would probably have switched around too.


----------



## Irish Jet

3venflow said:


> All but two quarter hours (one of them being the unification match) last week lost viewers, so should we blame the rest of the roster too? Punk vs. Mox was the main attraction and when that went on, people started to turn off. Those 'jerkoff acrobats' have done some of AEW's top quarter hours in its history, too. Omega has been in the highest rated QH in four of AEW's five most watched shows after the debut. So trying to turn a personal dislike against certain wrestlers into some kind of evidence they are channel changers if pretty much wrong. Like I said, if you had swapped Hager/Danielson with the trios match on Wednesday, their numbers would probably have switched around too.


👍


----------



## 3venflow

If you go through QH history, you could probably cherry pick any wrestler's worst weeks to make them look bad. Even Punk has lost viewers in some QHs. Punk vs. MJF (Dynamite main event) had fewer viewers for all three of its QHs than Mox vs. Yuta, Brandi/Lambert and Andrade/Hardy promos, and PAC/Penta vs. Malakai/Brody on the same show. But no one sane would try and use that data to say Punk and MJF are channel changers and lesser draws than Yuta and Dan Lambert.


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> If you go through QH history, you could probably cherry pick any wrestler's worst weeks to make them look bad. Even Punk has lost viewers in some QHs. *Punk vs. MJF (Dynamite main event) had fewer viewers for all three of its QHs than Mox vs. Yuta, Brandi/Lambert and Andrade/Hardy promos, and PAC/Penta vs. Malakai/Brody on the same show.* But no one sane would try and use that data to say Punk and MJF are channel changers and lesser draws than Yuta and Dan Lambert.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

bdon said:


> You’re right. I looked at the number wrong.
> 
> Point remains, 6-man/multiman matches do not maintain an audience over 2 quarters. Time and time again. You had Punk in goddamn 1986 Sting facepaint, popped the rating, and proceeded to have a portion of those same people tuning out by the second half of that match. And this was THE TOP FEUD IN THE COMPANY.
> 
> All of the story time, promo time, and everything else has been given to that feud, and it still lost viewers over the course of 2quarter hours. Seeing 3 generations of wrestlers honoring my boy Sting was a sight to fucking see, no doubt, but by the second half of that match, a few had enough. Top feud in the company.
> 
> 6-man/multiman matches just don’t work for American audiences, bro. Lol


But see, it did work in that Punk match case. It did maintain the audience. A small slippage of 15k during the match itself (while still being 26k above the QH prior to the match) doesn't really show anything. So your point still doesn't really show in this case. Especially if you want to count multi-man matches in general.

But you did get me curious. Got me to look at all the multi-man match main events breakdowns I have, all should be in this thread somewhere but feel free to add any that aren't (all are tag matches except the first one)

10/6/2021 - Casino Ladder Match Main Evented - *1.068m* average for Q11 and Q12 where match took place (rest of show *1.048m*)
10/27/2021 - Dark Order vs. The Elite - *964k* for Q12 (rest of show *938k*)
11/24/2021 - FTR/Andrade/Malakai vs. Cody and Death Triangle - *881k* average for Q11 and Q12 (rest of show *903k*)
12/22/2021 - Punk/Sting/Darby vs. MJF and FTR - *1.044m* average for Q11 and Q12 (rest of show *1.013m*)
12/29/2021 - Cole/Fish/O'Reilly vs. Best Friends - *1.056m* average for Q12 (rest of show *963k*)
3/2/2022 - Adam Page/Reynolds/John Silver vs. Cole/O'Reily/Reilly - *853k* for Q12 (rest of show *981k* - w/o Q1 it's *962k*)
6/15/2022 - Bucks vs. Lee/Strickland vs. Starks/Hobbs - *870k *average for Q11 and Q12 (rest of show *974k *- w/o Q1 it's *950k*)
6/29/2022 - BCC vs. JAS (Blood and Guts) - *1.064m* average for quarter hours 9-12 (rest of show *980k* - w/o Q1 it's *966k*)
8/17/2022 - Elite vs. Andrade's team (Omega return) - *908k* average for quarter hours 11 and 12 (rest of show *974k*, w/o Q1 it's *948k*)
8/24/2022 - Death Triangle vs. United Empire - *990k* average for quarters 11 and 12 (rest of show *1.068m*, w/o Q1 it's *1.063m*)
8/31/2022 - Elite vs. United Empire - *912k* average for quarters 11 and 12 (rest of show *1.055m*, w/o Q1 it's *1.029m*)
(had w/o Q1 for the 2022 shows since TBS/BBT run in has a big impact on first QH)

That's 5 increases over rest of show, 6 losses. If you want to take the ladder match out of the equation to just keep it to team matches, that's 4-6. Still actually a bit surprising it's that close. I know I'm missing some breakdowns though, so data's incomplete anyway. For reference earliest breakdown I have is 7/14/2021.


----------



## Wolf Mark

bdon said:


> I know you do, but you also know and understand the realities of them, right? Lol


AEW should threat multi-men matches just like WCW was doing, as a novelty act to pop the crowd in the middle of a card. I believe that AEW make them more important because The Bucks have booking power.


----------



## bdon

Wolf Mark said:


> AEW should threat multi-men matches just like WCW was doing, as a novelty act to pop the crowd in the middle of a card. I believe that AEW make them more important because The Bucks have booking power.


This is exactly what I’m saying. It shouldn’t feature. It should be used at the beginning of the show to get the crowd lively for television. Taping Dark and all that shit before every Dynamite really fucking drains you as a fan in attendance. If you’ve been to a show, you know the feeling.

It’s just…so fucking…much.

Don’t get me wrong. You get your money’s worth, but goddamn it is tough to try and stay energetic after 3 hours of shit going on. Lol


----------



## bdon

#BadNewsSanta said:


> But see, it did work in that Punk match case. It did maintain the audience. A small slippage of 15k during the match itself (while still being 26k above the QH prior to the match) doesn't really show anything. So your point still doesn't really show in this case. Especially if you want to count multi-man matches in general.
> 
> But you did get me curious. Got me to look at all the multi-man match main events breakdowns I have, all should be in this thread somewhere but feel free to add any that aren't (all are tag matches except the first one)
> 
> 10/6/2021 - Casino Ladder Match Main Evented - *1.068m* average for Q11 and Q12 where match took place (rest of show *1.048m*)
> 10/27/2021 - Dark Order vs. The Elite - *964k* for Q12 (rest of show *938k*)
> 11/24/2021 - FTR/Andrade/Malakai vs. Cody and Death Triangle - *881k* average for Q11 and Q12 (rest of show *903k*)
> 12/22/2021 - Punk/Sting/Darby vs. MJF and FTR - *1.044m* average for Q11 and Q12 (rest of show *1.013m*)
> 12/29/2021 - Cole/Fish/O'Reilly vs. Best Friends - *1.056m* average for Q12 (rest of show *963k*)
> 3/2/2022 - Adam Page/Reynolds/John Silver vs. Cole/O'Reily/Reilly - *853k* for Q12 (rest of show *981k* - w/o Q1 it's *962k*)
> 6/15/2022 - Bucks vs. Lee/Strickland vs. Starks/Hobbs - *870k *average for Q11 and Q12 (rest of show *974k *- w/o Q1 it's *950k*)
> 6/29/2022 - BCC vs. JAS (Blood and Guts) - *1.064m* average for quarter hours 9-12 (rest of show *980k* - w/o Q1 it's *966k*)
> 8/17/2022 - Elite vs. Andrade's team (Omega return) - *908k* average for quarter hours 11 and 12 (rest of show *974k*, w/o Q1 it's *948k*)
> 8/24/2022 - Death Triangle vs. United Empire - *990k* average for quarters 11 and 12 (rest of show *1.068m*, w/o Q1 it's *1.063m*)
> 8/31/2022 - Elite vs. United Empire - *912k* average for quarters 11 and 12 (rest of show *1.055m*, w/o Q1 it's *1.029m*)
> (had w/o Q1 for the 2022 shows since TBS/BBT run in has a big impact on first QH)
> 
> That's 5 increases over rest of show, 6 losses. If you want to take the ladder match out of the equation to just keep it to team matches, that's 4-6. Still actually a bit surprising it's that close. I know I'm missing some breakdowns though, so data's incomplete anyway. For reference earliest breakdown I have is 7/14/2021.


Blood and Guts is a pretty fucking big deal as is any match involving a cage.

Trios/multiman tag matches are inherently shit lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

bdon said:


> Trios/multiman tag matches are inherently shit lol


On that we can agree!

(Well, and Blood and Guts being a big deal but it was still a multiman match between teams).


----------



## bdon

#BadNewsSanta said:


> On that we can agree!
> 
> (Well, and Blood and Guts being a big deal but it was still a multiman match between teams).


Cage matches are about the only time I enjoy clusterfuck multi man matches. Can’t stand Triple Threats and Fatal Four-ways either.

They all just feel like lazy fucking booking.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

All this talk about nothing

its well known the elite has 700k to 800k loyal viewers

if they weren‘t there - deduct 800k from whatever number you are looking at

so, a lot of 50+ tuned out - whoooooo cares?

EL OH EL 

(man, the hate this’ll get, lol )


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> All this talk about nothing
> 
> its well known the elite has 700k to 800k loyal viewers
> 
> if they weren‘t there - deduct 800k from whatever number you are looking at
> 
> so, a lot of 50+ tuned out - whoooooo cares?
> 
> EL OH EL
> 
> (man, the hate this’ll get, lol )


I genuinely find myself hoping that TK’s Punk love forces The Elite to go north. Let The Elite talk about how they had to leave, because TK only wanted to play with his WWE toys and never really wanted a revolution.

TK can not afford to lose The Elite. Do that, and the loyal fanbase who props up Dynamite’s floor ratings-wise will feel betrayed and leave AEW with its dick in its hand.

And I’m sure Hunter knows this.


----------



## 3venflow

The Elite as a unit leaving AEW could be more disastrous than any other one individual leaving. Even if all of them are sidelined right now with broken legs, the fans know they're still *there*, part of the furniture and coming back. If they left for WWE or New Japan, that would disappear and the entire foundation of the promotion would have crumbled. The 'alternative', that being a group of guys who earned an organic/grassroots following in America that led to the creation of AEW, would be gone.

Now if Punk left, you'd definitely take a hit and the ratings peaks wouldn't be as high, you'd lose his impact on international brand awareness, merch, and ticket sales, but things would be stable because that in-built fanbase would still be there, like it was when it was just the Elite, Mox, Jericho and a bunch of midcarders.

The Elite, as a collective, are the least expendable talents in all of AEW. There's greater risk from them leaving than anyone else, be it Punk, Mox, Jericho, MJF or FTR.


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> The Elite as a unit leaving AEW could be more disastrous than any other one individual leaving. Even if all of them are sidelined right now with broken legs, the fans know they're still *there*, part of the furniture and coming back. If they left for WWE or New Japan, that would disappear and the entire foundation of the promotion would have crumbled. The 'alternative', that being a group of guys who earned an organic/grassroots following in America that led to the creation of AEW, would be gone.
> 
> Now if Punk left, you'd definitely take a hit and the ratings peaks wouldn't be as high, you'd lose his impact on international brand awareness, merch, and ticket sales, but things would be stable because that in-built fanbase would still be there, like it was when it was just the Elite, Mox, Jericho and a bunch of midcarders.
> 
> The Elite, as a collective, are the least expendable talents in all of AEW. There's greater risk from them leaving than anyone else, be it Punk, Mox, Jericho, MJF or FTR.


The moment The Elite leave, especially if it is assumed to be under strange circumstances (ie TK used them to attract the WWE guys), fans would leave right along with The Elite. The fans would feel betrayed and would know and be forced to accept that TK is no different than Punk: the only change he wanted was who he felt should be at top.

The Elite are irreplaceable.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

All truth


----------



## omaroo

Lets hope that day never comes.

If the elite leave AEW then AEW is done and finished. I hope TK actually understands this.


----------



## Hell No

Irish Jet said:


> Bryan was booked into irrelevance months ago. Tony has destroyed him. He’s basically Moxley’s bitch.


I am a huge Bryan fan I and have no interest in him at the moment...I can't believe he is playing 2nd fiddle to fucking Jon Moxley.


----------



## bdon

Hell No said:


> I am a huge Bryan fan I and have no interest in him at the moment...I can't believe he is playing 2nd fiddle to fucking Jon Moxley.


Well, Jon Moxley is actually an entertaining character.

Bryan Danielson is a guy, who…wrestles? Enjoys grappling? His entire character is “Old Man Daniel Garcia.”


----------



## DammitChrist

The Elite, CM Punk, AND Bryan Danielson *all* deserve their prominent spots in AEW.


----------



## omaroo

DammitChrist said:


> The Elite, CM Punk, AND Bryan Danielson *all* deserve their prominent spots in AEW.


I love punk I really do but the elite and their importance to the company is far more important than those two guys you mentioned.


----------



## Wolf Mark

bdon said:


> I genuinely find myself hoping that TK’s Punk love forces The Elite to go north. Let The Elite talk about how they had to leave, because TK only wanted to play with his WWE toys and never really wanted a revolution.
> 
> TK can not afford to lose The Elite. Do that, and the loyal fanbase who props up Dynamite’s floor ratings-wise will feel betrayed and leave AEW with its dick in its hand.
> 
> And I’m sure Hunter knows this.


I would love to see it. Without the Elite, TK would actually have to make an effort.


----------



## bdon

Wolf Mark said:


> I would love to see it. Without the Elite, TK would actually have to make an effort.


Well, we’d see the death of AEW, because the ratings floor would fall the fuck out…


----------



## validreasoning

Elite leaving won't make a jot of difference. Both Bucks and Omega have been hugely disappointing in AEW compared to their previous runs from 2017-19 where they were legit drawing acts.

Yes AEW was built on success of the Elite from 2017-19 but the current and future trajectory does not depend on the trio at all.

Losing Turner tv deal is probably only thing that makes a serious difference to business for the foreseeable future going forward.


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage has been given a two-hour timeslot for Grand Slam later this month. Like last year, which had six matches, it'll be 10pm until midnight.


----------



## NascarStan

Wolf Mark said:


> I would love to see it. Without the Elite, TK would actually have to make an effort.


Without the elite their main event would not 100k viewers every week


----------



## Wolf Mark

NascarStan said:


> Without the elite their main event would not 100k viewers every week


I think the die hards in the stands would be the most affected by it. But logically, if you put wrestling on TV with top stars, you should get 1 million viewers easy.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 485,000
18-49: 0.16

Big bump in both metrics, especially the key demo, compared to the week prior for Friday's live Rampage.

The show finished 11th on cable.

*Last two months*

8/26: 431,000 / 0.11
8/19: 461,000 / 0.12
8/12: 528,000 / 0.17
8/5: 468,000 / 0.15
7/29: 375,000 / 0.11
7/22: 428,000 / 0.17
7/15: 435,000 / 0.14
7/8: 428,000 / 0.15


----------



## BettsyUK

One would expect the ratings to be above a mil tonight given the circumstances, possibly their highest since launch. Tony has to come out, address the audience and explain that all concerned are suspended until due notice. Then have MJF interrupt Tony, mock him somewhat for caving into his demands, perhaps have a cheap shot at the situation that occurred after All Out and then move on to the next segment. That's how I'd plan it. Those quarters alone should pop a peak higher than anything seen recently.


----------



## Teemu™

Even though I don't like the Dub, I am predicting over a million today as a result of this admittedly genius work. 
I will give Tony credit if this works out.


----------



## La Parka

Teemu™ said:


> Even though I don't like the Dub, I am predicting over a million today as a result of this admittedly genius work.
> I will give Tony credit if this works out.


They're wise not to really announce anything yet. 

People will tune in just incase its a work.


----------



## Joe Gill

today is a pivotal moment in aews history.... if they get a huge ratings boost (1.2 million) then expect a new era of work shoot wrestling where wrestlers talk all sorts of shit about each other and make feuds personal.....truly blurring the line beetween real and kayfabe. If the ratings are where they normally are... in the 900k to 1 mill range then TK needs to take control of his company and start firing wrestler for unprofessional conduct.


----------



## Martyn

I would expect a massive first quarter and decline trough the rest of the show with Yuta/Garcia doing around 850,000k.


----------



## Teemu™

I think they squandered a silver platter opportunity by having a boring run of the mill Dynamite.


----------



## zkorejo

Meltzer is right about this, he thinks this can potentially hurt the ratings because alot of AEW fans have soured on AEW due to this. And if it somehow pops the rating, it's just one week because this buzz will die down by next week and Punk/Elite won't be around for a while anyways.

Also according to a redditor who was attending the show; Crowd was torn too. They booed Tony when he came out after the show. Crowd was generally pissed about not seeing Punk and Elite.

Ratings for this show will be interesting.


----------



## Teemu™

zkorejo said:


> Meltzer is right about this, he thinks this can potentially hurt the ratings because alot of AEW fans have soured on AEW due to this. And if it somehow pops the rating, it's just one week because this buzz will die down by next week and Punk/Elite won't be around for a while anyways.
> 
> Also according to a redditor who was attending the show; Crowd was torn too. They booed Tony when he came out after the show. Crowd was generally pissed about not seeing Punk and Elite.
> 
> Ratings for this show will be interesting.


They weren't booing Tony Khan, they were actually chanting BOOOOOOOOOOO-ker of the year. You fucking edrone.


----------



## IronMan8

zkorejo said:


> Meltzer is right about this, he thinks this can potentially hurt the ratings because alot of AEW fans have soured on AEW due to this. And if it somehow pops the rating, it's just one week because this buzz will die down by next week and Punk/Elite won't be around for a while anyways.
> 
> Also according to a redditor who was attending the show; Crowd was torn too. They booed Tony when he came out after the show. Crowd was generally pissed about not seeing Punk and Elite.
> 
> Ratings for this show will be interesting.


I honestly can't imagine many upset AEW fans choosing to miss dynamite this week. 

Let's see what happens about 2 minutes into the opening trios match. That'll be the first moment fans are left alone with their own thoughts to decide if they're in / out. Potential fork in the road moment right there.

Until that moment, the rest of the first QH was booked perfectly to retain the core AEW fan IMO:


Tony's announcement was as smart and strong as anyone could've expected
He immediately announced a title tournament with great brackets (that were then shown for enough time to let the viewer imagine all the permutations)
Hangman vs Danielson was announced for later in the show
Jericho promo announced
Open the actual show with the big MJF return promo (who's going to stop watching here?! Even Larry would keep watching)
The MJF segment blended into an all-time great Mox promo rallying the troops
And finally, for the first match, they went into a fast, high octane trios match between the 2 longest lasting original AEW trios teams.
A good number and typical retention would leave me very confident of good numbers over the next month.

A bad number with poor retention will sharpen my ability to spin this into a positive


----------



## Mr316

Very small crowd last night in Buffalo.


----------



## Aedubya

1.04 prediction


----------



## HoneyBee

Mr316 said:


> Very small crowd last night in Buffalo.


5.5k is hardly small is it? Some cities do better than others. Canada show is already sold out with 7k.


----------



## 3venflow

HoneyBee said:


> 5.5k is hardly small is it? Some cities do better than others. Canada show is already sold out with 7k.


Would've been a top five attendance of all time for TNA in America. Not bad for a 'small crowd'.  

They didn't need to book such a big building for the show really, but I don't know what, if any, alternatives there are in the area. WWE ran it back in April for RAW and did around 6,500 paid if memory serves, which is still only a fraction of what the place can hold if the third level is open.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

5,500 is good business


----------



## Mr316

Highest rating in Canada since Blood and Guts. Controversy creates cash. Not 20 minute matches between Yuta and Garcia.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 1,035,000
18-49: 0.38

#2 on cable, which is funny as they often finish #1 with lower. This was their highest 18-49 rating since June 1.

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

8/31: 1,020,000 / 0.35
8/24 1,049,000 / 0.34
8/17: 957,000 / 0.30
8/10: 972,000 / 0.33
8/3: 938,000 / 0.32
7/27: 976,000 / 0.33
7/20: 910,000 / 0.32
7/13: 942,000 / 0.32


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 1,035,000
> 18-49: 0.38
> 
> #2 on cable, which is funny as they often finish #1 with lower. This was their highest 18-49 rating since June 1.
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 8/31: 1,020,000 / 0.35
> 8/24 1,049,000 / 0.34
> 8/17: 957,000 / 0.30
> 8/10: 972,000 / 0.33
> 8/3: 938,000 / 0.32
> 7/27: 976,000 / 0.33
> 7/20: 910,000 / 0.32
> 7/13: 942,000 / 0.32
> 
> View attachment 132814


With all the buzz I was expecting way more honestly. Quite disappointing.


----------



## Kishido

Expected more to be honest


----------



## HoneyBee

1mill 3 weeks in a row. Good job, hopefully this continues.


----------



## Uncle Iroh

The show wasn't going to have Punk or The Elite present and what happened was never going to be mentioned. And we all saw the card.

I'd say being over a million was expected and anyone honestly believing it'd be higher in the realms of their highest rated show was giving them an impossible task.

They had buzz coming off the back of Double or Nothing with the whole MJF thing and then even had MJF on the post Dynamite show _with _a newly crowned champion in Punk and that didn't even crack a million.

What's interesting is how next week does.


----------



## Mr316

HoneyBee said:


> 1mill 3 weeks in a row. Good job, hopefully this continues.


It won’t. It nearly reached 1 million despite all the buzz.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567967762210865163*No Punk, no Elite, no problem. MJF can easily carry the show.*


----------



## Dr. Middy

I wonder if they started really high but dropped a good amount once some people realized Punk & The Elite weren't going to be on here or even mentioned.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Joe Gill said:


> today is a pivotal moment in aews history.... if they get a huge ratings boost (1.2 million) then expect a new era of work shoot wrestling where wrestlers talk all sorts of shit about each other and make feuds personal.....truly blurring the line beetween real and kayfabe. If the ratings are where they normally are... in the 900k to 1 mill range then TK needs to take control of his company and start firing wrestler for unprofessional conduct.


Guess it's time for TK to fire people and take control of the company.


That said anyone who had been following the dirtsheets knew there was going to be no reference to the controversy and no appearances from any of the involved parties.


----------



## Serpico Jones

This is why Tony is going to have such a hard time firing Punk, the ratings will be out the door with him.


----------



## CovidFan

Expected rating. Only the hardcore fans would know about the drama so only hardcore fans tuned in. Fuck the casuals anyways, amirite? 

Would bet that it goes under 1m next week and the demo's under .33.


----------



## Joe Gill

the quarter breakdowns fill be very interesting... I am expecting a huge audience to begin the show (1.2 mill) but it will end with 800k by end of garcia yuta match.


----------



## Gn1212

I wouldn't be surprised if the show hit 1.1-1.2 million at one point and then tuned out.
Waiting for the quarter hour ratings. 👀


----------



## DrEagles

CovidFan said:


> Expected rating. Only the hardcore fans would know about the drama so only hardcore fans tuned in. Fuck the casuals anyways, amirite?
> 
> Would bet that it goes under 1m next week and the demo's under .33.


This. Casuals didn’t know about the drama. My buddies dad watched the ppv, but called him when the show started all confused why titles were being vacated


----------



## HoneyBee

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567972684012875776


----------



## Joe Gill

DrEagles said:


> This. Casuals didn’t know about the drama. My buddies dad watched the ppv, but called him when the show started all confused why titles were being vacated


TK makes it virtually impossible for casual fans to follow along....hell even I have a hard time figuring out whats going on half the time like the main event roh rules.... as long as TK keeps pandering to the indy neckbeards the show or audience will never grow. Just about everyone already knows the ratings are going to tank for the main event.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Good number.


----------



## fabi1982

😂😂


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Serpico Jones said:


> This is why Tony is going to have such a hard time firing Punk, the ratings will be out the door with him.



Dude is either a pain in the ass or injured nowadays. Hard to have CM Punk when he gets constantly injured at every PPV.


----------



## HoneyBee

fabi1982 said:


> 😂😂


Do you even know what you're laughing at Fabi?


----------



## Aedubya

Aedubya said:


> 1.04 prediction


Close!!!!!


----------



## FrankieDs316

A good number for all the wrong reasons


----------



## Not Lying

Let's hope the streak continues.
They should aim for 1.1m at GS.


----------



## Irish Jet

Considering the amount of intrigue from the real life drama and the potential fallout that’s a shockingly low number.

Can’t see them hitting a million next week.


----------



## Peerless




----------



## Peerless

340k viewers tuned out from the start to the end of the show.

In the past weeks having their big stars appear multiple times on the show (Punk/Mox) helped stop the linear drop.

Also I don't think a Daniel Garcia match ever gained viewers lol. I was gonna say Yuto too, but at least Mox-Yuta drew well on Rampage. For being such a big numbers guy, It seems weird Tony's been insistent on showcasing him.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Given that Punk and The Elite were absent, this show did a nice rating, especially in the demo for them. Quarter hours shall be quite interesting.


----------



## Mr316

Peerless said:


> View attachment 132820


Ouch. Not surprised.


----------



## Mr316

No one gives a flying fuck about Yuta ans Garcia.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> No one gives a flying fuck about Yuta ans Garcia.


Except for the hundreds of thousand wrestling fans who clearly care about Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia (especially the latter by last night's crowd in New York).

Besides, both men aren't even 26 years old yet. 

They won't be going anywhere for a *long* time thankfully because they're younger talents who represent AEW's future


----------



## Gn1212

Peerless said:


> View attachment 132820


Losing 300+k, that's criminal.
Btw, look at P18-49. Started at 600k. 👀 

That's what happens when you lose your top draw and despite their flaws namesake of the damn show.

TK better call Punk and The Elite and offer them big money to make amends.
Tony should beg Punk to at least do commentary.


----------



## Mr316

340k tuned out because there was no reason to stay tuned in. I said it last night. Tony doesn’t know how to write exciting TV.


----------



## BIIIG Nige

Three weeks over 1 million.

Suck ittttttt


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Peerless said:


> View attachment 132820


hangers and bryan brining them back

i like yuta / garcia as much as the next guy

but for this show, it wasn‘t the play

and it never was the main event

match order is one of my biggest aew pet peeves


----------



## Irish Jet

Irish Jet said:


> Considering the amount of intrigue from the real life drama and the potential fallout that’s a shockingly low number.
> 
> Can’t see them hitting a million next week.





Peerless said:


> View attachment 132820


Haha don’t have to wait to next week to confirm what’s happening here. They’re fucked.

Early intrigue got people invested but absolutely nothing beyond that and holy shit look at that drop. They don’t give anyone a reason to stay around because the stars do one segment and out. Every week.

Now that it’s clear how their proceeding with(out) Punk and the Elite the intrigue is gone. What a debacle this situation is. Tony is being brutally exposed for the amateur that he is.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*MJF: 1,200,000
Everyone else: dogshit*


----------



## Irish Jet

DammitChrist said:


> Except for the hundreds of thousand wrestling fans who clearly care about Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia (especially the latter by last night's crowd in New York).
> 
> Besides, both men aren't even 26 years old yet.
> 
> They won't be going anywhere for a *long* time thankfully because they're younger talents who represent AEW's future


Can’t help but respect your effort. When the curtains are being closed you’ll be telling us how it bodes well going forward.


----------



## 3venflow

Those QHs are mostly as expected. I love Garcia and like Yuta but it's kinda like doing a Sammy vs. Kip main event in 2019 so was never going to have a great retention rate. If you put an in-development young guy in the main event, it should preferably involve at least one big star. I'd have swapped Hangman/Danielson and that match and the viewership line might have been straighter then. Even so, good numbers in both metrics by today's standards.

Those early 18-49 numbers were huge, by far the highest Dynamite has done for some time. To put it into perspective, Smackdown's 10-week average on network is 0.50 and Dynamite opened with 0.47.


----------



## Gn1212

The Legit Lioness said:


> *MJF: 1,200,000
> Everyone else: dogshit*
> View attachment 132836


More like MJF and Mox(with massive help from The Elite and Punk drama): 1,200,000


----------



## One Shed

The Legit Lioness said:


> *MJF: 1,200,000
> Everyone else: dogshit*
> View attachment 132836


No clearer picture could be painted.


----------



## Joe Gill

Joe Gill said:


> the quarter breakdowns fill be very interesting... I am expecting a huge audience to begin the show (1.2 mill) but it will end with 800k by end of garcia yuta match.


damn I nailed it.... opening segment was 1.2 mill and show ended in 800k range. Idiot TK decides to blow his load in first 15 minutes... and all the casuals turned the tv off since they dont give a shit about yuta and garcia. I am predicting next week will average 850k viewers with no punk and no drama or enticing storylines


----------



## GarpTheFist

Bryan losing viewers again. Every week the numbers prove that he was never a draw outside of a couple of weeks 8 years ago.


----------



## cai1981

Don't get caught up in the fact that they averaged over 1M ...just like last week, they had a big auduence to start but they bailed in droves as the show went on! Daniel Garcia in the main event was a harder pass than The So-Called Elite vs. Cirque de Osperay and company.

North of 1.2M to start and they finish in the 800k's...OUCH!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Second quarter hour actually held up well. The drama+announcement+MJF's opening promo leading into Moxley's promos held around 1.2 million viewers consistently. That's great, and the trios tag title match held pretty well too going into QH3, though was a big drop from QH2. But then QH4 drops big again, Bryan/Page only maintained but didn't recover viewership, and the main event went even lower. Not necessarily disappointing considering it was Garcia and Yuta, two young talents who haven't really been established yet, but certainly a pretty bad number. Don't know if Page/Bryan would've kept the viewership up if it was the main event given how it performed, or what could've really been put at the end of the show besides the MJF promo. Match wise there wasn't really anything this week I think that could've held things up a bit better.


----------



## Irish Jet

GarpTheFist said:


> Bryan losing viewers again. Every week the numbers prove that he was never a draw outside of a couple of weeks 8 years ago.


He's been booked into oblivion. Any chance they had to make him standout was quickly destroyed.

Hilariously had they gone with heel Bryan as champ from the start like I was crying out for them to do they would have built to Punk-Danielson and none of the current drama would even exist. Would just be two stars making money.

But no they had to sacrifice that at the alter of "long term storytelling" and Adam Page provided the worst world title reign in decades. A genuine act of self harm. Tony is insane.


----------



## Gn1212

Irish Jet said:


> He's been booked into oblivion. Any chance they had to make him standout was quickly destroyed.
> 
> Hilariously had they gone with heel Bryan as champ from the start like I was crying out for them to do they would have built to Punk-Danielson and none of the current drama would even exist. Would just be two stars making money.
> 
> But no they had to sacrifice that at the alter of "long term storytelling" and Adam Page provided the worst world title reign in decades. A genuine act of self harm. Tony is insane.


Yep. It was stupid.
Page didn't need a long reign. He will eventually get a second reign anyway, probably third too.

Could have gone Bryan v Punk at Double Or Nothing, the big money feud, a match that could genuinely main event a Wrestlemania, main eventing an AEW PPV.

Even if Punk returns, it feels that ship passed.


----------



## Peerless

MJF’s comeback promo has done poor numbers on YouTube. Only 310k views.


----------



## DammitChrist

Gn1212 said:


> More like MJF and Mox(with massive help from The Elite and Punk drama): 1,200,000


I love how only MJF received the credit; but yet the intrigue in the situation regarding CM Punk plus the Elite, Jon Moxley, and that trios tag match featuring Orange Cassidy plus Pac (which still maintained over 1+ million viewers) got ignored.


----------



## Irish Jet

DammitChrist said:


> I love how only MJF received the credit; but yet the intrigue in the situation regarding CM Punk plus the Elite, Jon Moxley, and that trios tag match featuring Orange Cassidy plus Pac (which still maintained over 1+ million viewers) got ignored.


You’re right. It was all Pac.


----------



## DammitChrist

Irish Jet said:


> He's been booked into oblivion. Any chance they had to make him standout was quickly destroyed.
> 
> Hilariously had they gone with heel Bryan as champ from the start like I was crying out for them to do they would have built to Punk-Danielson and none of the current drama would even exist. Would just be two stars making money.
> 
> But no they had to sacrifice that at the alter of "long term storytelling" and Adam Page provided the worst world title reign in decades. A genuine act of self harm. Tony is insane.


No, Adam Page being the guy to beat Kenny Omega for the AEW World title was the obvious right move because it fulfilled his whole redemption angle and character arc once their long-term storyline ended (which was great btw since many wrestling fans wanted to see it).

Any other wrestler beating Omega for the world title would've been an atrocious decision since that would've hurt Page's stock (since he'd never get another big moment for a major story like that ever again), and it would've sent a message to the other AEW originals that their previous plans wouldn't matter in the long term since the newer ex-WWE guys would just be the top priority instead.

Sacrificing great quality in order to cause a minor temporary boost in viewership for the short term is an extremely bad decision. If anything, I'd even be willing to claim that the backstage drama would've occurred earlier if Bryan Danielson and CM Punk both ended up becoming world champions within 6 months after their respective debuts (instead of giving Adam Page his big moment when it made sense).

Oh, for the record, Page had a really good world title reign that's criminally underrated on here.

Thankfully, Tony Khan ended up making the right decision by pleasing the majority of the audience with his long-term storytelling, and by refusing to cave in with Bryan Danielson or CM Punk being booked on top right away


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Joe Gill said:


> damn I nailed it.... opening segment was 1.2 mill and show ended in 800k range. Idiot TK decides to blow his load in first 15 minutes... and all the casuals turned the tv off since they dont give a shit about yuta and garcia. I am predicting next week will average 850k viewers with no punk and no drama or enticing storylines


Dude, you're the guy who said if they didn't average 1.2 million they should be firing people.


----------



## Irish Jet

DammitChrist said:


> No, Adam Page being the guy to beat Kenny Omega for the AEW World title was the obvious right move because it fulfilled his whole redemption angle and character arc once their long-term storyline ended (which was great btw since many wrestling fans wanted to see it).
> 
> Any other wrestler beating Omega for the world title would've been an atrocious decision since that would've hurt Page's stock (since he'd never get another big moment for a major story like that ever again), and it would've sent a message to the other AEW originals that their previous plans wouldn't matter in the long term since the newer ex-WWE guys would just be the top priority instead.
> 
> Sacrificing great quality in order to cause a minor temporary boost in viewership for the short term is an extremely bad decision. If anything, I'd even be willing to claim that the backstage drama would've occurred earlier if Bryan Danielson and CM Punk both ended up becoming world champions within 6 months after their respective debuts (instead of giving Adam Page his big moment when it made sense).
> 
> Oh, for the record, Page had a really good world title reign that's criminally underrated on here.
> 
> Thankfully, Tony Khan ended up making the right decision by pleasing the majority of the audience with his long-term storytelling, and by refusing to cave in with Bryan Danielson or CM Punk being booked on top right away


You can have Page beat Omega. Then you have Bryan take it off him immediately. Kicking his head in after the match. Full on heel with nuclear heat from those same fans who were so in love with such an artistic piece of storytelling. Tolstoy would blush at this tale of the hangman. 

Temporary rise? Buddy the viewership hemorrhaged under Page. His reign was a disaster and still is to this day. For him as much as anyone else as he was an afterthought to the actual stars who should have been in that spot. He wasn’t elevated in the slightest, quite the opposite - It discredited him and the title both, probably for good.

He’s in a worse position now than ever - jerking himself off with jobbers - and he’s somehow also managed to alienate the top star of the company. His unprofessionalism has left the company humiliated and directionless. He wasn’t even close to ready but Khan pulled the trigger to appease people like yourself, as if you wouldn’t have been calling a Danielson reign of terror the greatest thing ever had it happened.

I don’t know why I’m bothering with this as I’m 99% sure you’re trolling people with the blind loyalty but alas the Page reign was so monumentally destructive for the company that it really cannot be brought up enough.


----------



## Joe Gill

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Dude, you're the guy who said if they didn't average 1.2 million they should be firing people.


they should... get rid of all the indy scrubs like yuta garcia, best friends etc... or demote them to rampage or dark


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Joe Gill said:


> they should... get rid of all the indy scrubs like yuta garcia, best friends etc... or demote them to rampage or dark


Sure, that'll solve all the problems. It's Daniel Garcia that is the problem not shoddy storytelling or poor formatting.


----------



## Joe Gill

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Sure, that'll solve all the problems. It's Daniel Garcia that is the problem not shoddy storytelling or poor formatting.


well... you cant fire TK....but they should defintely fire QT


----------



## IronMan8

The Toni Storm match lost ~10% of the key demo... what's wrong with young men these days?


----------



## Jay Trotter

Tony doesn't have a clue on how to format a show. It bites him in the ass time after time. The main event is rarely ever in the main event to hold the audience. Whether it be match, promo, or story related. He blows his load in the opening segment or the first hour (9 times out of 10) and can't sustain the viewers the rest of the way by spreading things out. Save your big announcement to open the second hour (tease it to start the show to milk the scandal for longer than a minute) and slot in Moxley's promo to follow it once Tony is done as a State Of Union so to speak. Keep MJF in the opening making vague references to the state of the AEW title (No Mox) and play off the crowd interaction in same way they did. Danielson vs Adam "I don't need advice from the vets" Page in the main event is a no brainer. 

Nope. Can't book something to get the most out of a show that should've scored much higher in viewers given all the factors. Let's stick two bland basic charisma vacuums in the main event over a nothing title from a dead ass promotion. Workrate doesn't draw on it's own for the millionth time. You need stars and stakes for it to bump a rating. Next week is going to be ugly.


----------



## DammitChrist

Jay Trotter said:


> Tony doesn't have a clue on how to format a show. It bites him in the ass time after time. The main event is rarely ever in the main event to hold the audience. Whether it be match, promo, or story related. He blows his load in the opening segment or the first hour (9 times out of 10) and can't sustain the viewers the rest of the way by spreading things out. Save your big announcement to open the second hour (tease it to start the show to milk the scandal for longer than a minute) and slot in Moxley's promo to follow it once Tony is done as a State Of Union so to speak. Keep MJF in the opening making vague references to the state of the AEW title (No Mox) and play off the crowd interaction in same way they did. Danielson vs Adam "I don't need advice from the vets" Page in the main event is a no brainer.
> 
> Nope. Can't book something to get the most out of a show that should've scored much higher in viewers given all the factors. Let's stick two bland basic charisma vacuums in the main event over a nothing title from a dead ass promotion. Workrate doesn't draw on it's own for the millionth time. You need stars and stakes for it to bump a rating. Next week is going to be ugly.


Honestly, the fact that you're falsely labeling 2 young rising stars as 'charisma vacuums' (even though both men have already proven to be more than capable of getting over with the wrestling audience when I BET that there were still careless folks who said the same about top stars like Bryan Danielson and AJ Styles 15+ years ago) automatically makes everything else you said irrelevant.

Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia are already great workers who are reasonably over with crowds yet they're still several years away from reaching their respective primes; but yet you're already dismissing them with a horribly overused, misleading label.

You clearly don't know what 'charisma' means, and you clearly don't get what a 'dead' promotion really is here (especially when AEW has consistently managed to draw good ratings).

It's like the success of AEW's ppvs plus Forbidden Door (with over 90% of those shows being nothing *but* wrestling) and that Trios World title match from last night's episode of Dynamite (which still maintained over a million viewers) isn't enough to debunk this false myth about workrate 'not' drawing.

Anyway, you're especially wrong about both those statements; so it's best not to take these ideas up above in the quote seriously, especially when Tony Khan already knows what he's doing


----------



## CovidFan

DC, the people who stopped watching (like me) last night's show when the main event spot started wouldn't have turned them off if they possessed charisma. They don't make me at all intrigued about what they're going to do because they're bland and boring despite having some good ring work. Maybe you need the definition of charisma. Here it is:



> cha·ris·ma
> /kəˈrizmə/
> noun
> 
> 
> 1.
> compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others.


Those two are the exact opposite of the definition of charisma.

Of course the trios match did fine. Each one of Death Triangle has charisma. Things that make you want to see them. Penta has a hand gesture and a good look, Rey's a phenomenal athlete/gymnast with a good look, Pac has a great character and is great in the ring....with a good look.


----------



## MEMS

IronMan8 said:


> The Toni Storm match lost ~10% of the key demo... what's wrong with young men these days?


Where do you want to start....


----------



## DammitChrist

CovidFan said:


> DC, the people who stopped watching (like me) last night's show when the main event spot started wouldn't have turned them off if they possessed charisma. They don't make me at all intrigued about what they're going to do because they're bland and boring despite having some good ring work. Maybe you need the definition of charisma. Here it is:
> 
> 
> Those two are the exact opposite of the definition of charisma.
> 
> Of course the trios match did fine. Each one of Death Triangle has charisma. Things that make you want to see them. Penta has a hand gesture and a good look, Rey's a phenomenal athlete/gymnast with a good look, Pac has a great character and is great in the ring....with a good look.


I’ve seen that definition of charisma for 6+ years often enough now; so I don’t need to see it again because I’m good 

Anyway, dude, you’re getting your definition for charisma mixed up with *drawing ability.*

You just gave a solid explanation for drawing ability/power, which is what you mean here.

If we go by your restrictive definition for ‘charisma,’ then pretty much 98% of every wrestler to ever perform are ‘charisma vacuums’ then since very few names end up being big draws like The Rock or Steve Austin.

That’s a misleading perspective, and that universal definition said nothing about ratings.

Crowd reactions are a way better indicator of determining how charismatic someone truly is because you’re actually getting the chance to HEAR how much charm or attractiveness a performer has with the audience through crowd noise.

A wrestler with (varying levels of) charisma is basically compelling and/or inspiring a large group of people in the arena to react with verbal crowd noise here.

For example, MJF is super charismatic NOT because of what the TV ratings are indicating, but because he’s a great heel who’s fully capable of drawing tremendous heat with his compelling promos plus his character work. He’s really charismatic because of his consistently loud crowd reactions who are compelled with whatever he does.

Ratings are just statistics that can easily fluctuate for multiple weeks randomly due to various reasons, so they’re not a reliable indicator of how charismatic a wrestler is here; especially when even their top stars sometimes have the unfortunate weeks where their quarterly ratings see a dip during their matches/segments. TV ratings aren’t actual living beings, so they aren’t an accurate representation of someone having charisma.

You’re referring to *drawing power* here, which is a completely different story.


----------



## bdon

Bryan (in singles action here) is a massive drop in ratings damn near every time.

I guess he’s about as big a draw as Kenny in trios, huh?


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> I’ve seen that definition of charisma for 6+ years often enough now; so I don’t need to see it again because I’m good <snip>


All I see are your excuses. No valid explanations there. They have no drawing power because they don't possess charisma. Death Triangle don't drop 100k viewers because they do possess charisma. Garcia and Yuta are devoid of charisma because they possess precisely 0 attractiveness or charm. Calling them CAW's would be generous. End of.



> Ratings are just statistics <snip>


I'd agree with you here if it were one of them vs. an established star. Maybe it'd be just fluctuation. But having two guys who possess zero charisma in the main event is easy to spot as an error and a predictable tumble in ratings with superbly bad judgment by the booker.


----------



## DammitChrist

CovidFan said:


> All I see are your *excuses.* No valid explanations there.


Really, you're going there, dude?

I just gave you a detailed explanation about the difference between 'charisma' and 'drawing power' in my previous post (since numerous folks tend to confuse the former for the latter, which further leads to this big misconception with both those terms).

How is nothing that I said up above valid?



> They have no drawing power because they don't possess charisma.


No, those 2 terms are *not* mutually exclusive.

They're weak in drawing power (for now) because both men are young, rising talents who aren't that established yet. Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia were almost unknown to the AEW audience just over a year ago. They're already the newer 'pillars' more than a year later, and neither of them are even 26 years old yet; so they have plenty of more room to further develop themselves as established performers.

They totally *DO *possess some charisma since both men have already connected well with various crowds over the last several months. Wheeler Yuta managed to get himself over by AEW crowds after delivering an amazing performance against Jon Moxley earlier this year, and by aligning himself with the BCC. Daniel Garcia is starting to receive louder pops and "he's a wrestler" chants through this storyline with JAS (mainly Chris Jericho) plus Bryan Danielson.

They clearly do possess *some* charisma (as I previously stated up above). Otherwise, they'd be coming out to crickets no matter what they do.

You'd be correct if you were talking about the Varsity Blondes because pretty much nobody cares about them. They almost get no crowd reactions; which in *THIS* case, it'd make sense to call them 'charisma vacuums.'



> Death Triangle don't drop 100k viewers because they do possess charisma. Garcia and Yuta are devoid of charisma because they possess precisely 0 attractiveness or charm. Calling them CAW's would be generous. End of.
> 
> I'd agree with you here if it were one of them vs. an established star. Maybe it'd be just fluctuation. But having two guys who possess zero charisma in the main event is easy to spot as an error and a predictable tumble in ratings with superbly bad judgment by the booker.


Uh no, we're continuing this story because what you just said here makes no sense since it's very misleading.

You're just proving my earlier point that you're mixing up 'charisma' with 'drawing power.' They're not the same at all.

If we go by your weak example up above, then it turns out that CHAOS (aka Orange Cassidy/Best Friends) and Death Triangle had a higher quarterly rating than both Bryan Danielson and Adam Page.

Are you going to tell me that Bryan Danielson and Adam Page are 'less' charismatic than someone like Chuck Taylor just because their match happened to have a minor dip? Are you going to make the claim that both those top stars are
'more devoid of charisma' than someone like Trent Beretta?

For the record, I like both members of Best Friends, and I think they're a fairly charismatic pair who's over with different crowds; but using *TV ratings* to judge the charisma of certain wrestlers (especially when ratings tend to fluctuate randomly multiple weeks for various reasons) is a horrible way to evaluate them.

Again, Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia DO possess some charisma (which is further made evident by their ability to get over with various AEW crowds around the country). It's a truthful statement that I refuse to let go here because it's obvious by *listening* to the audience's responses on television most weeks.

Honestly, it's better to just admit that you don't like Yuta nor Garcia because it'd be much more honest than just dismissing their charisma. You even called them 'CAWs' too (even though some of the biggest/most popular stars looked similar in their early years). A disliked wrestler doesn't *need* to appeal toward you in order to possess some charisma.


----------



## Joe Gill

they should do an episode of dynamite without any matches...just promos and interviews about all the backstage drama....i bet it would get 1.3 mill viewers


----------



## zkorejo

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/x9g6ep

Idk what he's talking about, there is no change in the ratings. What bump? 

I think it's safe to say all this drama has not impacted the ratings and probably won't.


----------



## fabi1982

HoneyBee said:


> Do you even know what you're laughing at Fabi?


Im laughing at all the comments how all this buzz should lead to 1.2m or more. People in here saying how full their twitter timeline was and what great a work this is.

And you know what, it seems nobody cared. Less people watched than before the PPV. Thats what I am laughing at


----------



## HoneyBee

fabi1982 said:


> Im laughing at all the comments how all this buzz should lead to 1.2m or more. People in here saying how full their twitter timeline was and what great a work this is.
> 
> And you know what, it seems nobody cared. Less people watched than before the PPV. Thats what I am laughing at


House of the Dragon did 10 million live but after all on-demand viewings were tallied the number was 20 million. The point being you have no clue what the full number of viewers is bar the live number. I am sure many people have watched on the website or app afterwards. 1 million live is excellent.


----------



## BIIIG Nige

As long as its above 900k there fine. 😊


----------



## fabi1982

HoneyBee said:


> House of the Dragon did 10 million live but after all on-demand viewings were tallied the number was 20 million. The point being you have no clue what the full number of viewers is bar the live number. I am sure many people have watched on the website or app afterwards. 1 million live is excellent.


You know who cares about DVR? No f**king one!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Im laughing at all the comments how all this buzz should lead to 1.2m or more. People in here saying how full their twitter timeline was and what great a work this is.
> 
> And you know what, it seems nobody cared. Less people watched than before the PPV. Thats what I am laughing at


you find humour in the strangest things brother Fabi

i’m happy you’re happy


----------



## BIIIG Nige

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you find humour in the strangest things brother Fabi
> 
> i’m happy you’re happy


Imagine being that unhappy to contribute to a wrestling company you hate. 🤣


----------



## Sad Panda

fabi1982 said:


> You know who cares about DVR? No f**king one!


Why?


----------



## fabi1982

Sad Panda said:


> Why?


Because no one will watch ads when they DVR


----------



## HoneyBee

fabi1982 said:


> Because no one will watch ads when they DVR


They will when there is picture in picture.


----------



## DUSTY 74




----------



## Jaxon

can anyone compare last year to this year and then this should show if it was a good number?


----------



## mazzah20

Seeing those numbers and having Bryan-Hang midshow with Yuta-Garcia as the main, could they establish a Co-Main and Main structure on Dynamite with each starting on the half hour?

EG
Co-Main - Strong Title Match at ?:30 // 20 min time limit
Main - Bryan-Hangers at ?:30 // 30 min time limit

Not every week but just to give a bit of structure, expectation and hierarchy when they have a few biggish TV matches scheduled.

See if viewers return for the matchups or not.


----------



## NathanMayberry

DUSTY 74 said:


> View attachment 132906
> 
> View attachment 132907
> 
> View attachment 132908


Seems like a shit main event drew shitty viewership 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> Seems like a shit main event drew shitty viewership
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Except for the fact that the main event was a great wrestling match that plenty of fans enjoyed in the end


----------



## THANOS

GarpTheFist said:


> Bryan losing viewers again. Every week the numbers prove that he was never a draw outside of a couple of weeks 8 years ago.


They've made him an afterthought in AEW. Go check his match and feud with Kenny when he debuted. He was leading the show.


----------



## DammitChrist

If anything, Bryan Danielson is more relevant now in AEW than ever before


----------



## THANOS

DammitChrist said:


> If anything, Bryan Danielson is more relevant now in AEW than ever before


----------



## Not Lying

DammitChrist said:


> If anything, Bryan Danielson is more relevant now in AEW than ever before


----------



## ElTerrible

DUSTY 74 said:


> View attachment 132906
> 
> View attachment 132907
> 
> View attachment 132908


So it´s Moxley and Christian Cage.


----------



## The real Axel

DammitChrist said:


> If anything, Bryan Danielson is more relevant now in AEW than ever before


Never change, DubbaloChrist


----------



## kingfunkel

All things considering, underwhelming ratings. Was expecting close to 1.3m.

Started off with close to 200k extra fans, 1 hour in and the ratings were back to the normal. These trios matches, don't draw. Those extra eyes only managed 1 hour before turning off. 

Again the ratings tanked to 800k towards the end. 
Think that's their ceiling. If all this talk could only bring in between 100-200k but throughout the show it lost 340k fans...then there is no growth to be made.


----------



## Aedubya

-----Anything above 0.80 is ok, Anything above 0.85 is good, anything above 0.9 is v good , anything above 0.95 is brilliant , anything above 1.0 is outstanding-----

OUTSTANDING


----------



## Gn1212

Card is strong next week and then there's Grand Slam. 
Honestly, there should be no excuses here. Gotta maintain the ratings at the very least, and if we're honest, they have to go up.

If ratings don't go up now Tony should start worrying.


----------



## CovidFan

Gn1212 said:


> Card is strong next week and then there's Grand Slam.
> Honestly, there should be no excuses here. Gotta maintain the ratings at the very least, and if we're honest, they have to go up.
> 
> If ratings don't go up now Tony should start worrying.


But they've been over 1m the past 3 weeks. I thought this was some magical number. Why would you worry if you don't drop below it 



> All things considering, underwhelming ratings. Was expecting close to 1.3m.


Those are your own unrealistic expectations. Nobody should've expected this drama to draw in many extra. Only hardcore fans would even know about it (and care enough about it to watch) and they already watch.


----------



## Gn1212

CovidFan said:


> But they've been over 1m the past 3 weeks. I thought this was some magical number. Why would you worry if you don't drop below it
> 
> Those are your own unrealistic expectations. Nobody should've expected this drama to draw in many extra. *Only hardcore fans would even know about it *(and care enough about it to watch) and they already watch.


Look how many viewers tuned into the show and then how many dropped out by the end. Clearly the buzz did have an effect but the show wasn't compelling or structured enough to maintain the viewership.

Just sorting the structure alone for this episode I think the show would've done one of its best numbers in months.


----------



## Not Lying

Gn1212 said:


> Look how many viewers tuned into the show and then how many dropped out by the end. Clearly the buzz did have an effect but the show wasn't compelling or structured enough to maintain the viewership.
> 
> Just sorting the structure alone for this episode I think the show would've done one of its best numbers in months.


They only started 30K higher than the week prior and it was a post-PPV show, so they should have. 
I don't think the drama added anything.


----------



## CovidFan

Not Lying said:


> They only started 30K higher than the week prior and it was a post-PPV show, so they should have.
> I don't think the drama added anything.


Beat me to it.

As you (gn1212) said, if they structured it better, it could've done better but it has nothing to do with the backstage drama and everything to do with putting on two generic wrestlers in the main event instead of something compelling (which I imagine is what you meant).

You also didn't address my point to you which was, why should TK start worrying now? Ratings seem to have been doing fine. For the 10 weeks prior to June 29th, they averaged in the high 800ks. For the past 11 weeks, they've averaged in the high 900ks and that was without Bryan and Punk for a few of those weeks. Why should this and next week's Dynamite shows be so worrisome to TK?


----------



## Gn1212

CovidFan said:


> Beat me to it.
> 
> As you (gn1212) said, if they structured it better, it could've done better but it has nothing to do with the backstage drama and everything to do with putting on two generic wrestlers in the main event instead of something compelling (which I imagine is what you meant).
> 
> You also didn't address my point to you which was, why should TK start worrying now? Ratings seem to have been doing fine. For the 10 weeks prior to June 29th, they averaged in the high 800ks. For the past 11 weeks, they've averaged in the high 900ks and that was without Bryan and Punk for a few of those weeks. Why should this and next week's Dynamite shows be so worrisome to TK?


Next week's card looks pretty strong and Grand Slam is perhaps their biggest annual TV show.

I don't think it's gonna look great if the ratings don't reflect that, especially after the whole drama.

Grand Slam specifically needs to do well.
He better put that AEW World Championship match as the main event.


----------



## NascarStan

1.2 is the absolute ceiling of AEW and it took their world champion having the biggest meltdown since Bash at The Beach 2000

Next week it'll be 950 as usual


----------



## Hotdiggity11

That Wheeler Yuta/Garcia viewership plunge. 🤣


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> That Wheeler Yuta/Garcia viewership plunge. 🤣


Nah, Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia will thankfully still be around for another 2 decades (not tanking anything at all btw), which is great since plenty of wrestling fans care about them


----------



## 3venflow

All Out took in an estimated $4.5m, per Wrestlenomics. AEW's third million dollar gate too. All Out 2021 remains the most successful PPV even though it did far less in gate revenues. The PPV buyrate was much higher than anything else they've done.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> All Out took in an estimated $4.5m, per Wrestlenomics. AEW's third million dollar gate too. All Out 2021 remains the most successful PPV even though it did far less in gate revenues. The PPV buyrate was much higher than anything else they've done.
> 
> View attachment 133058


not a bad Sunday all things considered 😆


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Looking at most recent Thurston post, seems like final numbers for Double or Nothing and Forbidden door haven't come in yet (or hasn't been given by him). Also noticed a few changes to a few PPVs from last time I saw him post them (Full Gears 2019 and 2020, as well as this past Revolution and Full Gear pay per views getting a few extra).


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568979175473647616
All Out being down from last year is no surprise. Punk return match hype was huge and really, probably added about an extra 100k buys looking at how All Out usually does compared to Double or Nothing looking at 2019 and 2020. So I think this year's number is still really good and a sign of normal PPV growth at least. Plus it's an early number, might be around 150-160k when it's all said and done.

Full Gear though will be interesting. Last year Page's journey to the title did great business for the PPV (plus they had Punk, and Bryan wrestling on PPV for first time in AEW with World Title implications), and unless MJF is main eventing this year's then I doubt we'll get anything that compares (and even then his "Kenny Omega" in CM Punk won't be opposite of him so that will hurt the overall story). Wouldn't surprise me if Full Gear ends up down a good deal from last year, though I think something in the 130k neighborhood will still be good. Though ideally beats out Forbidden Door at least.


----------



## 3venflow

Upcoming Rampages:

9/16: taped
9/23: taped (two-hour timeslot for Grand Slam)
9/30: taped
10/7: live
10/13: standalone event but on Thursday
10/21: live
10/28: live
11/4: live
11/11: taped
11/18: live

So from October leading into Full Gear, AEW is significantly expanding its live events with more live Rampages than ever before. The 10/13 Canada one is happening on Thursday, probably because they need to get back to the States, so I'm just assuming it'll be 24-hour tape delay rather than live.


----------



## 3venflow

Meltzer said the minute-by-minute showed 1.01 million were watching by the end of Garcia vs. Yuta. This would have been the very end, like the last minute or two.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569092778927456259


----------



## shadow_spinner

where's the "this match certainly lost the show some viewers" people? 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569092778927456259


----------



## DammitChrist

Yep, _nobody_ cares about Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta though since they're _charisma vacuums_ (even though multiple crowds in 2022 say otherwise).


----------



## NascarStan

shadow_spinner said:


> where's the "this match certainly lost the show some viewers" people?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569092778927456259


Dave and his mysterious source again that always comes out with information that makes AEW look good

Funny how there's no article or graph showing this but Meltzer would never lie!


----------



## CovidFan

shadow_spinner said:


> where's the "this match certainly lost the show some viewers" people?


It did. Just look at the quarterly hours . Unless this is the new goalpost shift. From viewers to demo and now from quarterlies to "only the highest two minutes count".


----------



## DammitChrist

CovidFan said:


> It did. Just look at the quarterly hours . Unless this is the new goalpost shift. From viewers to demo and now from quarterlies to "only the highest two minutes count".


That updated tweet clearly proves that Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia brought back even more viewers to around the 1 million mark by the last several minutes of their great main event; but hey, let’s continue associating them with misleading labels like ‘charisma vacuums’ ( 😂 ) even though that’s been debunked multiple times on here already


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> That updated tweet clearly proves that Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia brought back even more viewers to around the 1 million mark by the last several minutes of their great main event ( 😂 ); but hey, let’s continue classifying them with misleading labels like ‘charisma vacuum’ even though that’s been debunked multiple times already


I've not once said "charisma vacuum". At least quote me correctly. It has not been debunked. The two drew 8xxk people. Why is it no other week do we look at minute-by-minute itt but you find this out and it's all the sudden a thing to justify a horrific quarterly drop? That's the definition of goalpost shifting. I'd bet that most weeks the viewership goes up the last 2-3 minutes to see if something interesting happens to end the show. You failed hard here


----------



## Hotdiggity11

shadow_spinner said:


> where's the "this match certainly lost the show some viewers" people?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569092778927456259




? It did. Did you miss the quarterly data? Or are we moving the goalposts to some new metric now?




CovidFan said:


> I've not once said "charisma vacuum". At least quote me correctly. It has not been debunked. The two drew 8xxk people. Why is it no other week do we look at minute-by-minute itt but you find this out and it's all the sudden a thing to justify a horrific quarterly drop? That's the definition of goalpost shifting. I'd bet that most weeks the viewership goes up the last 2-3 minutes to see if something interesting happens to end the show. You failed hard here




Be gentle with DC. He’s just sad the wrestling he likes doesn’t really draw a big audience. 😉




3venflow said:


> All Out took in an estimated $4.5m, per Wrestlenomics. AEW's third million dollar gate too. All Out 2021 remains the most successful PPV even though it did far less in gate revenues. The PPV buyrate was much higher than anything else they've done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like they will have to do something massive to exceed AO2021. By far their biggest event so far.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> ? It did. Did you miss the quarterly data? Or are we moving the goalposts to some new metric now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be gentle with DC. He’s just sad the wrestling he likes doesn’t really draw a big audience. 😉


Hey, these misleading explanations (meant to discredit their success 😂 ) don't change the fact that a little over 1 million viewers tuned in to see Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta within the last several minutes of their awesome main event last Wednesday; which are impressive numbers for 2 young rising stars. There's no spinning around both men drawing in around a million viewers in the end too 

Plus, the big success of Forbidden Door alone proves that the (great) wrestling I like draws a big audience


----------



## One Shed

100,000 immediately tuned out after Danielson won because they had no interest in what followed, but they plus more people made sure to come back during the last two minutes hoping the match would be over and that something involving the drama from All Out would close the show. There really is no other argument. Those people had no interest in watching the match. If they did, they would have.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

One Shed said:


> 100,000 immediately tuned out after Danielson won because they had no interest in what followed, but they plus more people made sure to come back during the last two minutes hoping the match would be over and that something involving the drama from All Out would close the show. There really is no other argument. Those people had no interest in watching the match. If they did, they would have.



They loved the match so much, they changed the channel until the last 2 minutes in order to catch the results of who won the ultra prestigious ROH Pure Championship!


----------



## CovidFan

Hotdiggity11 said:


> They loved the match so much, they changed the channel until the last 2 minutes in order to catch the results of who won the ultra prestigious ROH Pure Championship!


But the point is, THEY DID IT!!!! AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS!!!


----------



## Gn1212

Tony Khan should never listen to Moxley's ideas.


----------



## Gn1212

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568980811277369345
I wonder what happened before All Out 2021.


----------



## Jaxon

One Shed said:


> 100,000 immediately tuned out after Danielson won because they had no interest in what followed, but they plus more people made sure to come back during the last two minutes hoping the match would be over and that something involving the drama from All Out would close the show. There really is no other argument. Those people had no interest in watching the match. If they did, they would have.


yeah pretty much this


----------



## DammitChrist

Big kudos to Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia for bringing back even more people to 1+ million viewers with their awesome match last Wednesday 👏

The numbers they pulled at the end despite not being established names yet speaks more volumes than any random ratings fluctuation. Both men certainly have a bright future ahead of them. That's for sure 

Hopefully, they continue to be pushed in the upper card (which they will thankfully).


----------



## IronMan8

Yuta and Garcia were unknown to most AEW fans a year ago.

Now they're getting major crowd reactions and drawing 1+ million viewers to main event Dynamite.

Yeah, they could've relied on older stars to deliver a slightly better number, but this is how you build up your roster for the future.

TK is just watering the grass to make sure it's greener in the future


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Big kudos to Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia for bringing back even more audience to 1+ million viewers with their awesome match last Wednesday 👏
> 
> The numbers they pulled at the end despite not being established names yet speaks more volumes than any random ratings fluctuation. Both men certainly have a bright future ahead of them. That's for sure
> 
> Hopefully, they continue to be pushed in the upper card (which they will thankfully).





IronMan8 said:


> Yuta and Garcia were unknown to most AEW fans a year ago.
> 
> Now they're getting major crowd reactions and drawing 1+ million viewers to main event Dynamite.
> 
> Yeah, they could've relied on older stars to deliver a slightly better number, but this is how you build up your roster for the future.
> 
> TK is just watering the grass to make sure it's greener in the future


The viewers came back in the final minute or two according to that report. That means they literally SKIPPED the match and only wanted to see the aftermath. How hard is this?


----------



## IronMan8

One Shed said:


> The viewers came back in the final minute or two according to that report. That means they literally SKIPPED the match and only wanted to see the aftermath. How hard is this?


"the viewers"

You're talking about 10%

That means 90% of "the viewers" stayed to watch these guys who were nobodies a year ago

Small cost for a future payoff

That 900,000 who stuck around for them will be more interested in seeing them in the future (even if just for knowing who they are and seeing they're presented as somewhat important vs being perceived as nobodies), so it'll help those 900,000 stick around in future segments


----------



## One Shed

IronMan8 said:


> "the viewers"
> 
> You're talking about 10%
> 
> That means 90% of "the viewers" stayed to watch these guys who were nobodies a year ago
> 
> Small cost for a future payoff
> 
> That 900,000 who stuck around for them will be more interested in seeing them in the future (even if just for knowing who they are and seeing they're presented as somewhat important vs being perceived as nobodies), so it'll help those 900,000 stick around in future segments


Look at the quarter hours for the past few weeks and tell me again how trios nonsense and guys with no personalities are growing anything?

You can present something as important, but at the end of the day people have eyes and ears and the product does not match the description.


----------



## IronMan8

One Shed said:


> Look at the quarter hours for the past few weeks and tell me again how trios nonsense and guys with no personalities are growing anything?
> 
> You can present something as important, but at the end of the day people have eyes and ears and the product does not match the description.


It works though

If you signal "we think these guys are important" then that signal alone increases interest because people know there'll be future payoffs for those characters 

Or look at it this way... 90% of viewers stuck around to watch 2 guys who were unknown a year ago compete for a ROH mid card title in the main event of Dynamite 

Yuta's value grew in that match with Moxley on Rampage in front of just 500,000 viewers, and he joined BCC over a couple of weeks in random Dynamite segments

That's a small investment within a short period of time that's now led to him keeping 900,000 in the main event - not bad

Garcia has been given a bit more, but still not much really

Nobody is saying they're mega stars, but their value has definitely grown, so they're created pretty good value at a very small cost


----------



## One Shed

IronMan8 said:


> It works though
> 
> If you signal "we think these guys are important" then that signal alone increases interest because people know there'll be future payoffs for those characters
> 
> Or look at it this way... 90% of viewers stuck around to watch 2 guys who were unknown a year ago compete for a ROH mid card title in the main event of Dynamite
> 
> Yuta's value grew in that match with Moxley on Rampage in front of just 500,000 viewers, and he joined BCC over a couple of weeks in random Dynamite segments
> 
> That's a small investment within a short period of time that's now led to him keeping 900,000 in the main event - not bad
> 
> Garcia has been given a bit more, but still not much really
> 
> Nobody is saying they're mega stars, but their value has definitely grown, so they're created pretty good value at a very small cost


It was a bad call though. You had a lot of people tuning into see the program due to the buzz from the previous several days and what they chose to present as a main event chased away any of those potential new or lapsed viewers.

I understand the argument many make that it is "fine" for the company to just cater to the existing hardcore fans. If that is the argument, fine, but you do not get to then say this catering is building and growing their fanbase and audience when it clearly is not.

People just need to acknowledge the reality that many things they choose to present as much less popular than others.


----------



## IronMan8

One Shed said:


> It was a bad call though. You had a lot of people tuning into see the program due to the buzz from the previous several days and what they chose to present as a main event chased away any of those potential new or lapsed viewers.
> 
> I understand the argument many make that it is "fine" for the company to just cater to the existing hardcore fans. If that is the argument, fine, but you do not get to then say this catering is building and growing their fanbase and audience when it clearly is not.
> 
> People just need to acknowledge the reality that many things they choose to present as much less popular than others.


Well, if they end up around say 600k in 6 months when it's time to cash in on the equity they put into Yuta/Garcia, then I'll concede that this was a missed opportunity

As long as viewers keep tuning in, then this will be a win down the line


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 429,000
18-49: 0.14

#16 on cable. It wasn't live unlike the week before, but still kind've disappointing number considering the strength of the card. Demo was ok (#1 in its timeslot), viewership low. You'd hope for a more regular upturn when it goes live regularly in October.

*Last two months*

9/2: 485,000 / 0.16
8/26: 431,000 / 0.11
8/19: 461,000 / 0.12
8/12: 528,000 / 0.17
8/5: 468,000 / 0.15
7/29: 375,000 / 0.11
7/22: 428,000 / 0.17
7/15: 435,000 / 0.14


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

People came back for that shit to end so they can watch battle bots. Nobody is tuning in for garcia vs yugi yoda.

How is that so hard to understand? OMG a million viewers but only in the last minutes!! Yeah people wanted the next show to fucking start.


----------



## DammitChrist

CenaBoy4Life said:


> People came back for that shit to end so they can watch battle bots. Nobody is tuning in for garcia vs yugi yoda.
> 
> How is that so hard to understand? OMG a million viewers but only in the last minutes!! Yeah people wanted the next show to fucking start.


Nah, plenty of more folks tuned in to see the rest of the awesome match that Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta had in the main event; which is why they ended up receiving 1+ million viewers within the last several minutes.

That automatically debunks the myth that they 'tanked' viewership, especially when 1+ million viewers ended up witnessing their match live at the end of the day here


----------



## 3venflow

CenaBoy4Life said:


> People came back for that shit to end so they can watch battle bots. Nobody is tuning in for garcia vs yugi yoda.
> 
> How is that so hard to understand? OMG a million viewers but only in the last minutes!! Yeah people wanted the next show to fucking start.


Nielsen had nothing from TBS in the top 150 for after Dynamite, so either that was a re-run or something else aired.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, plenty of more folks tuned in to see the rest of the awesome match that Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta had in the main event; which is why they ended up receiving 1+ million viewers within the last several minutes.
> 
> That automatically debunks the myth that they 'tanked' viewership, especially when 1+ million viewers ended up witnessing their match live at the end of the day here


That makes no sense at all. People didnt care enough to watch but tuned in for the finish. Yeah ok.

Completely falling for that meltz lies and I would hardly call that an awesome match. Really sad how desperate some people are for home grown stars they actually think these two are draws, are stars or have talent.


----------



## DammitChrist

CenaBoy4Life said:


> That makes no sense at all. People didnt care enough to watch but tuned in for the finish. Yeah ok.
> 
> Completely falling for that meltz lies and I would hardly call that an awesome match. Really sad how desperate some people are for home grown stars they actually think these two are *draws, are stars or have talent.*


It'll be okay. There was definitely a time when young guys like CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, AJ Styles, Seth Rollins, Kenny Omega, Jon Moxley, Kevin Owens, and Sami Zayn were accused of being 'talentless charisma vacuums' with 'no drawing potential' by folks who refused to give any of them a chance in the 2000s (only for those guys to live up to the hype in the end).

This'll just make it even sweeter when the likes of Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta inevitably debunk your bolded myth several years from now.

They aren't going anywhere for a long time. Garcia and Yuta are already great performers in the ring right now despite not even being 26 years old yet; so they'll definitely grown even more as overall talents in the long run.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, plenty of more folks tuned in to see the rest of the awesome match that Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta had in the main event; which is why they ended up receiving 1+ million viewers within the last several minutes.
> 
> That automatically debunks the myth that they 'tanked' viewership, especially when 1+ million viewers ended up witnessing their match live at the end of the day here


This is pure fantasyland thinking. They came back to see if any hot angle would close the show. If they wanted to watch the match, they would have actually watched the match.


----------



## Sensei Utero

AEW dyin', DC cryin'. 'Member when people on DumbSmarks called me out for stating the Punk signing would flop? Glad to be right on that one, brother. Where are they all now? LOL.


----------



## CovidFan

Sensei Utero said:


> AEW dyin', DC cryin'.


AEW clearly ain't dying which is why it's so funny to see DC shift goalposts so far to defend the trash idea of that main event. Just take an L there. It was clearly a bad decision.



Sensei Utero said:


> 'Member when people on DumbSmarks called me out for stating the Punk signing would flop? Glad to be right on that one, brother. Where are they all now? LOL.


Check the numbers underneath for before and after Punk's signing. LOL.


Gn1212 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568980811277369345
> I wonder what happened before All Out 2021.


And to IronMan who said "900k" stuck around. I think it's pretty clear 800-900k is their hardcore audience who will watch anything because they enjoy wrestling.


----------



## Sensei Utero

CovidFan said:


> AEW clearly ain't dying which is why it's so funny to see DC shift goalposts so far to defend the trash idea of that main event. Just take an L there. It was clearly a bad decision.
> 
> Check the numbers underneath for before and after Punk's signing. LOL.
> 
> 
> And to IronMan who said "900k" stuck around. I think it's pretty clear 800-900k is their hardcore audience who will watch anything because they enjoy wrestling.


The way things are goin', brother - don't be surprised to see either 1) fans leave this company, 2) Khan shuttin' up shop after about 5 or 6 years when things only carry on the way they are, and they haven't got any further forward. Are we really surprised about certain cowards shifting goalposts though and just being marks? Best to just pretend they don't exist, brother. 'Cause at the end of the day, they're only killin' the business.

But as for the numbers, Punk isn't a needle mover, brother. The biggest financial flop in the entire industry.


----------



## bdon

Sensei Utero said:


> The way things are goin', brother - don't be surprised to see either 1) fans leave this company, 2) Khan shuttin' up shop after about 5 or 6 years when things only carry on the way they are, and they haven't got any further forward. Are we really surprised about certain cowards shifting goalposts though and just being marks? Best to just pretend they don't exist, brother. 'Cause at the end of the day, they're only killin' the business.
> 
> But as for the numbers, Punk isn't a needle mover, brother. The biggest financial flop in the entire industry.


Getting paid more than anyone in the company to do 18k more weekly viewers on average than when The Cucamonga Kids and Twinkletoes were front and center.


----------



## CovidFan

> But as for the numbers, Punk isn't a needle mover, brother. The biggest financial flop in the entire industry.


Whatever helps you sleep with your hatred of Punk. and fwiw, I have no opinion of Punk, really. He's just objectively not a "financial flop" let alone the biggest one.


----------



## IronMan8

CovidFan said:


> And to IronMan who said "900k" stuck around. I think it's pretty clear 800-900k is their hardcore audience who will watch anything because they enjoy wrestling.


900k who will watch anything? I'd go by their Rampage viewers for that, so maybe 450k


----------



## DammitChrist

CovidFan said:


> AEW clearly ain't dying which is why it's so funny to see DC shift goalposts so far to defend the trash idea of that main event. Just take an L there. It was clearly a bad decision.
> 
> Check the numbers underneath for before and after Punk's signing. LOL.
> 
> 
> And to IronMan who said "900k" stuck around. I think it's pretty clear 800-900k is their hardcore audience who will watch anything because they enjoy wrestling.


Nah, Wheeler Yuta vs Daniel Garcia ended up being a good decision to main event the previous Dynamite episode since 1+ million viewers ended up seeing the later portions of the contest here.

This is a valid position that I refuse to back down here too


----------



## Jay Trotter

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, Wheeler Yuta vs Daniel Garcia ended up being a good decision to main event the previous Dynamite episode since 1+ million viewers ended up seeing the later portions of the contest here.
> 
> This is a valid position that I refuse to back down here too


It was a fantastic match.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, Wheeler Yuta vs Daniel Garcia ended up being a good decision to main event the previous Dynamite episode since 1+ million viewers ended up seeing the later portions of the contest here.
> 
> This is a valid position that I refuse to back down here too


It is not a valid position though. The fans who tuned in during the final two minutes of the show literally did not watch the match. You are just mathematically wrong here, this is not just a difference of opinion. There is being stubborn, and then there is living in a world of "alternative facts."


----------



## CovidFan

One Shed said:


> It is not a valid position


literally people's only criticism of it itt. Maybe some day it can be a main event but not in September of 2022.


----------



## Jaxon

has anyone got year on year ratings?


----------



## bdon

Jaxon said:


> has anyone got year on year ratings?


Up about 18k viewers average per week.

Because Punk is such a needle mover, ya know?


----------



## Mr316

3400 tickets sold for tomorrow night. This company is not going in the right direction.


----------



## 3venflow

Mr316 said:


> 3400 tickets sold for tomorrow night. This company is not going in the right direction.


And yet they're about to have their fourth million dollar gate of 2022 (and of all time) later this month for Grand Slam (which is on course to make more money than last year's while selling fewer tickets). If you keep pulling off gates like that, you can deal with a few below average shows on the road.

It's not a good number for tomorrow, but it's not like their business is sinking. Canada tickets flew, NOW Arena triple header made them big money, and they did 5.5k in Buffalo last week. They probably should not have run NY state three weeks running and the middle one (tomorrow) is the one suffering most from doing that.

If the Punk/Elite thing has a worse case scenario outcome, then I think you'll start to see some problems with attendances in the longer term.


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> And yet they're about to have their fourth million dollar gate of 2022 (and of all time) later this month for Grand Slam (which is on course to make more money than last year's while selling fewer tickets). If you keep pulling off gates like that, you can deal with a few below average shows on the road.
> 
> It's not a good number for tomorrow, but it's not like their business is sinking. Canada tickets flew, NOW Arena triple header made them big money, and they did 5.5k in Buffalo last week. They probably should not have run NY state three weeks running.


Grand Slam is not making more money than last year. They’ve barely sold half of what they sold last year.


----------



## 3venflow

Mr316 said:


> Grand Slam is not making more money than last year. They’ve barely sold half of what they sold last year.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569556352791646209
They have bumped prices for a lot of bigger shows this year. There are primary market tickets going for $500+ for Grand Slam right now.

AEW tickets used to be, on average, cheaper. Like WWE, they can now seemingly sell fewer tickets for bigger shows and make more money.


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569556352791646209
> They have bumped prices for a lot of bigger shows this year. There are primary market tickets going for $500+ for Grand Slam right now.
> 
> AEW tickets used to be, on average, cheaper. Like WWE, they can now seemingly sell fewer tickets for bigger shows and make more money.
> 
> View attachment 133288


It’s called Platinum tickets. Every single events on ticketmaster now have platinum tickets at ridiculous prices. Most tickets left for the show are averaging 70$ and they’re not selling for shit.


----------



## 3venflow

Mr316 said:


> It’s called Platinum tickets. Every single events on ticketmaster now have platinum tickets at ridiculous prices. Most tickets left for the show are averaging 70$ and they’re not selling for shit.


Price-point is still way higher than last year as is the case for many shows. So they can sell less and make more as long as they move a good %. If they don't think they're moving enough tickets, then they simply will drop the prices again. Standard business practice really.

WWE brings in 2~3k for many of its house shows but they must be profitable at the prices or else they would cancel them.

AEW is heading to their fourth $1m gate of the year and all time. That's a lot of money and something only the WWE have done in the last 20 years (WCW never did, but with $ inflation would have a handful of times). Tomorrow's show may not be selling very well, but AEW is having its highest gate revenue year yet.

You can see a glance of ticket revenues going up below.

All Out 2021 = 10,126 at NOW Arena = $630k

Full Gear 2021 = 10,442 at Target Center = $650k

All Out 2022 = 10,014 at NOW Arena = $1.1m


----------



## kingfunkel

Slightly off topic but I seen NXT did 720k. I don't watch or keep up to date with it; any particular reason why the number is relatively high?


----------



## SeiyaKanie

kingfunkel said:


> Slightly off topic but I seen NXT did 720k. I don't watch or keep up to date with it; any particular reason why the number is relatively high?


Anniversary special probably. or people wants to watch quincy elliott


----------



## Aedubya

0.93 guess


----------



## 3venflow

I expect a drop this week then a rise again next week for Grand Slam.


----------



## Mr316

895k


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 1,175,000
18-49: 0.39

#1 on cable. Highest viewership since 22 September 2021, highest key demo since 1 June 2022.

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

9/7: 1,035,000 / 0.38
8/31: 1,020,000 / 0.35
8/24 1,049,000 / 0.34
8/17: 957,000 / 0.30
8/10: 972,000 / 0.33
8/3: 938,000 / 0.32
7/27: 976,000 / 0.33
7/20: 910,000 / 0.32


----------



## Kishido

Awesome number


----------



## Chelsea

The Gift of Jericock being tapped by The American Dragon draws


----------



## Peerless

It's a shame Punk got injured because imagine having this kind of momentum and not making use of the heat between Punk and the Elite. 

The show was shit, but Mox, Bryan, Jericho, and MJF all had lengthy segments.


----------



## The real Axel

Keep the Elite and Punk off the show I guess? Hats off to the Dub and their loyal Dubbalos for their improving ratings recently.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Thank you based Danielson and Based Jericho


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Good number. Hope they keep that momentum.


----------



## DammitChrist

kingfunkel said:


> Slightly off topic but I seen NXT did 720k. I don't watch or keep up to date with it; any particular reason why the number is relatively high?


I'd say it's a combination of NXT 2.0 having its 1-year anniversary episode this week, and a bit of uncertainty for their future since they have a slightly deeper roster with (former) NXT UK talents.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570505704045445121


----------



## Martyn

Fantastic rating😍


----------



## HoneyBee

Excellent rating. This backstage melee angle is paying off lol. Goes to show that all this scandal isn't turning people away. 

So that's 1mill 4 weeks in a row. So perhaps they are growing after all?


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

kingfunkel said:


> Slightly off topic but I seen NXT did 720k. I don't watch or keep up to date with it; any particular reason why the number is relatively high?


It was the one year anniversary of the NXT 2.0 rebrand. People probably tuned in thinking they were going to revert to Black and Gold in all honesty. Only reason I can think of. There was also a cage match, but they don't seem to mean much in the ratings anymore.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Works, work?


----------



## The XL 2

It's like I said, the Bucks and Omega aren't stars. Pretty damn big rating without them


----------



## DammitChrist

AEW still continuing to grow their audience confirmed.


----------



## DammitChrist

The XL 2 said:


> It's like I said, the Bucks and Omega aren't stars. Pretty damn big rating without them


Nah, some of the highest quarterly ratings in Dynamite's short history had Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks in a segment/match.

The same goes for CM Punk too.


----------



## Mr316

Not gonna lie, I’m surprised by this number.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Punk is a b+ player. The show has drawn more without him.


----------



## HoneyBee

All the doubters keeps saying they hit 1M for one reason or another and that it will be back to usual range the following week. 4 weeks and still over 1M, what's the reason this week?


----------



## The XL 2

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, some of the highest quarterly ratings in Dynamite's short history had Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks in a segment/match.
> 
> The same goes for CM Punk too.


And yet, this overall number destroys the average weekly number they did with those guys on the show


----------



## HoneyBee

Geert Wilders said:


> Punk is a b+ player. The show has drawn more without him.


Even so, I'm a fan and would like to see him on TV. Not every wrestler has to be there to pull in a million plus.


----------



## DammitChrist

The XL 2 said:


> And yet, this overall number destroys the average weekly number they did with those guys on the show


That's quite amusing (and misleading) because they started drawing 1+ million viewers again right around the time the Elite reunited last month


----------



## Not Lying

Must be September.

It’s always their highest month.


----------



## HoneyBee

Not Lying said:


> Must be September.
> 
> It’s always their highest month.


And there you have it, someone with an answer for why they're doing 1M. I knew it wouldn't take long. They just can't accept that there is a lot of interest in the product and a gain in following.


----------



## Top bins

Happy that AEW are growing their audience. Let's hope they can pull in at least 1.2/1.3 next week or am I reaching?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Mr316 said:


> 895k


----------



## Uncle Iroh

Almost as if MJF is a generational talent.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

Mr316 said:


> 895k


This didn't age well


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Ok who has patreon to get the quarter hours


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570513235899711489


----------



## Not Lying

Someone post the quarters please 😂

I’m walling the best Q8 increased unlike previous weeks.




Uncle Iroh said:


> Almost as if MJF is a generational talent.


That’d be Moxley.


----------



## Uncle Iroh

Not Lying said:


> That’d be Moxley.


The correlation seems more in line with MJF in this situation though.


----------



## 3venflow

There isn't a whole lot of competition on TV right now which helps. AEW and WWE are always hit by live sports, look at RAW's drop on Monday.

And it seems obvious that when you open and close with big matches, you maximize your chances of retaining an audience. I don't know why TK frontloads the show sometimes, allowing the fans to drift away in hour two.

They tied RAW in M18-49 this week (0.55) and beat them in young males 12-34 (0.31 vs. 0.30), but RAW had its usual advantages in F18-49 (0.34 vs. 0.23) and their brand-loyal P50+ (0.89 vs. 0.50).


----------



## Not Lying

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570510614157742083
Interesting.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Ok who has patreon to get the quarter hours
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570513235899711489


I'll get them. Give me about 10 minutes. Acknowledge me after I post it.


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## Uncle Iroh

All 8 quarters were over a million apparently.

Can't have been too many times in history where that's happened.

Edit - beaten by Wizard.


----------



## Joe Gill

wow...surprised by that very solid rating...and next week is grandslam so they might get an even bigger number. The episode after grandslam will be very telling of just how important punk/omega/bucks are.... if the ratings are still 1 mill plus thats a sign to TK that he doesnt need to kiss their asses anymore.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Acclaimed and Orange Cassidy in the highest quarter!


----------



## Joe Gill

3venflow said:


> View attachment 133464


TK needs to figure out the mess of the womens division...its a big channel changer/bathroom break for a lot of viewers. Rest of show was very consistent.


----------



## DammitChrist

Just LOOK at that BEAUTIFUL CONSISTENCY in the 1st hour 

Edit:

I wish we still had that smiley with Triple H lying down wearing a blue suit for moments like this.


----------



## BettsyUK

That's a stonkingly good number, I expected the rating to be somewhere around a million, so to find around 130,000 viewers is a very substantial gain. Hats off to em, next week I think will be lower but should certainly be above a million. 

Hope I'm proved wrong and growth is seen above 1.2mil


----------



## The Boy Wonder

The Boy Wonder said:


> Acclaimed and Orange Cassidy in the highest quarter!


September 7th Quarter-Hours:



Orange Cassidy in the highest quarter. Maybe he should be the next AEW World Champion?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hey guys… whats up?


----------



## rich110991

great rating..

but tbh the show wasn’t their best, they can and have done better!


----------



## Not Lying

3venflow said:


> View attachment 133464


So about 300K more people at least prefer to watch Jericho vs Bryan than Yuta vs Garcia 👋🏼


----------



## BettsyUK

Interesting to see growth, real growth in the tv audience lately, but the live growth at the gate has seemed abit flat at recent dynamite shows. Like always between 4 or 5k with the odd exception here or there. If the live audience could grow by similar percentages than they would be showing an real solid trajectory all round.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

CM Punk and the Elite are clearly B+ players. 


No surprise the only real drop was the "We have to put women in a random tag team on the show" match.


----------



## RuthlessAttitude

Joe Gill said:


> TK needs to figure out the mess of the womens division...its a big channel changer/bathroom break for a lot of viewers. Rest of show was very consistent.


If that All Elite Women show is actually happening then take female matches off Dynamite and have them on the new show and Rampage. Make Dynamite a male division show.


----------



## NascarStan

I give AEW shit but credit where credit is due, that is a good number and proves AEW do not need Puke and can hopefully fire him


----------



## DUSTY 74




----------



## Chan Hung

Well shit. They did higher numbers with no Punk, no Elite. Not sure how to spin this.


----------



## Chan Hung

NascarStan said:


> I give AEW shit but credit where credit is due, that is a good number and proves AEW do not need Puke and can hopefully fire him


They also by this rationale, do not need the Elite then either, and Hangman Page.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

If there ever was any doubt that the AEW world title is ‘worth‘ something - then peep those Qs


----------



## Not Lying

Chan Hung said:


> Well shit. They did higher numbers with no Punk, no Elite. Not sure how to spin this.


No spinning . They’d have done less with the Elite because their segments suck and even more than that if Punk was there because his segments are usually the best 🤷‍♂️


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Not Lying said:


> No spinning . They’d have done less with the Elite because their segments suck and even more than that if Punk was there because his segments are usually the best 🤷‍♂️


CM Who? Is he from MLW?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> CM Who? Is he from MLW?




And what does the CM stand for? Cocky Manlet?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hotdiggity11 said:


> And what does the CM stand for? Cocky Manlet?


cringey mcfuckface i heard

indie star


----------



## sideon

This could be great news or bad news depending on the next couple of weeks. If they can keep this viewership at least at the 1mil level then it's great news for their future, if it drops after Grand Slam then it was more about people wanting to see the resulting fallout from the press conference and immediate future. If they can keep this up then I believe it'll be all the ammunition Tony needs to release Punk and tell the Elite to get their shit together or they can kick rocks as well.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Danielson and Jericho drew the highest demo of the night and increased total viewers and demo for the closing quarter.

Next week I believe fall tv starts again so the competition will be greater. I wonder if Mox v Danielson opens like Omega/Danielson did last year or goes on last?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> cringey mcfuckface i heard
> 
> indie star




Look in his eyes

What do you see?

Another title ending injury...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE said:


> Danielson and Jericho drew the highest demo of the night and increased total viewers and demo for the closing quarter.
> 
> Next week I believe fall tv starts again so the competition will be greater. I wonder if Mox v Danielson opens like Omega/Danielson did last year or goes on last?


it better not fucking open - i hate it when they start with a title match

EXCEPT…. If Swerve in our Glory v the Acclaimed main events


----------



## Good Bunny

Everybody loves the Acclaimed

I busted out laughing at the women being the ONLY dip 💀


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> *CM Punk and the Elite are clearly B+ players.*
> 
> 
> No surprise the only real drop was the "We have to put women in a random tag team on the show" match.


Nah, they're truly A-level players 



Chan Hung said:


> Well shit. They did higher numbers with no Punk, no Elite. Not sure how to spin this.


Nah, they started drawing 1+ million viewers ever since CM Punk and the Elite made their respective returns/reunion last month; so we don't need to 'spin' anything since that fact speaks for itself 



NascarStan said:


> I give AEW shit but credit where credit is due, that is a good number and proves AEW do not need Puke and can hopefully fire him


Nah, CM *Punk *won't get fired at all thankfully


----------



## Not Lying

LifeInCattleClass said:


> CM Who? Is he from MLW?


CM GOAT


----------



## Peerless

DUSTY 74 said:


> View attachment 133468
> 
> View attachment 133469
> 
> View attachment 133470
> 
> 
> View attachment 133471


Moxley’s quarters have done monster numbers since his title match vs Jericho.


----------



## One Shed

Look what happens when you put main events in the main event vs trios nonsense or personalityless CAWs.

The buzz around the real life situation has people interested. Hopefully they can capitalize on the obviously large number of people who are tuning in to see what happens.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Not Lying said:


> CM GOAT


must be NWA


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> Look what happens when you put main events in the main event vs trios nonsense or personalityless CAWs.
> 
> The buzz around the real life situation has people interested. Hopefully they can capitalize on the obviously large number of people who are tuning in to see what happens.


Nah, they should keep doing fun trios matches, and keep pushing young rising talents like Daniel Garcia plus Wheeler Yuta too.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, they should keep doing fun trios matches, and keep pushing young rising talents like Daniel Garcia plus Wheeler Yuta too.


Nah, not if they want to grow their audience. The numbers speak for themselves.


----------



## Not Lying

One Shed said:


> Nah, not if they want to grow their audience. The numbers speak for themselves.


Legit. This is what a real main event looks like. 
Jericho vs Mox had a similar rise in Q7 and then in Q8. 
it’s rare there’s this climb in Aew BUT THATS HOW IT SHOULD BE FOR A MAIN EVENT.


----------



## CovidFan

3venflow said:


> View attachment 133464


Look what happens when you don't put two no names with zero charisma for a different company's belt in the main event slot. Not only did two established stars retain viewers, they gained viewers.

I can't wait until in 5 days time it comes out that the final two minutes actually did 800k and we should just look at that . Oh wait, that wouldn't happen because it doesn't shift goalposts positively for the dub


----------



## One Shed

Not Lying said:


> Legit. This is what a real main event looks like.
> Jericho vs Mox had a similar rise in Q7 and then in Q8.
> it’s rare there’s this climb in Aew BUT THATS HOW IT SHOULD BE FOR A MAIN EVENT.


It is so simple you might think it would be obvious but...


----------



## drougfree

easy e knew it better


----------



## .christopher.

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, they should keep doing fun trios matches, and keep pushing young rising talents like Daniel Garcia plus Wheeler Yuta too.


I thought you supported AEW. Why would you want to cause long term damage like that


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> Nah, not if they want to grow their audience. The numbers speak for themselves.


Nah, the numbers started rising up to 1+ million viewers once CM Punk and the Elite made their returns/reunion last month; which isn’t a coincidence at all


----------



## DammitChrist

CovidFan said:


> Look what happens when you don't put two no names with zero charisma for a different company's belt in the main event slot. Not only did two established stars retain viewers, they gained viewers.
> 
> I can't wait until in 5 days time it comes out that the final two minutes actually did 800k and we should just look at that . Oh wait, that wouldn't happen because it doesn't shift goalposts positively for the dub


The various positive crowd reactions that Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta have received over the past several months kills this myth that they’re “charisma vacuums”; which is even made more evident by the fact that a million folks ended up tuning in to see the last several minutes of their awesome main event last week


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, the numbers started rising up to 1+ million viewers once CM Punk and the Elite made their returns/reunion last month; which isn’t a coincidence at all


They took a nose dive whenever the trios stuff happened and with Kenny's "big" return. The numbers are black and white there.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> They took a nose dive whenever the trios stuff happened and with Kenny's "big" return. The numbers are black and white there.


And Punk dressed as 1987 Sting, Sting, and Darby saw a spike in viewership that also lost massive viewers by the 2nd quarter hour of their segment. A match that was story-driven and part of the hottest feud in the company.

All black and white there, too.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> They took a nose dive whenever the trios stuff happened and with Kenny's "big" return. The numbers are black and white there.


Except for the fact that Kenny Omega’s *big* return actually saw a noticeable rise in viewership for Q7 last month because numerous wrestling fans genuinely wanted to see the guy make his big comeback; so nah, the numbers aren’t as ‘black and white’ as you say it is here.

Edit:

Yea, I refuse to budge on my points.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> And Punk dressed as 1987 Sting, Sting, and Darby saw a spike in viewership that also lost massive viewers by the 2nd quarter hour of their segment. A match that was story-driven and part of the hottest feud in the company.
> 
> All black and white there, too.


A trios match you say? I think I mentioned how those chase away viewers so that makes sense there.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> A trios match you say? I think I mentioned how those chase away viewers so that makes sense there.


Yeah. A trios match. So, I’m not sure what Omega’s return has to do with it. It popped a 100k viewers. Trios lost viewers, because multiman matches are fucking awful, unless it is a street fight or specialty match like Blood and Guts.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Yeah. A trios match. So, I’m not sure what Omega’s return has to do with it. It popped a 100k viewers. Trios lost viewers, because multiman matches are fucking awful, unless it is a street fight or specialty match like Blood and Guts.


Yeah, it popped 100K people who tuned into see what he was going to do, then promptly left when they saw what that was.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Except for the fact that Kenny Omega’s *big* return actually saw a noticeable rise in viewership for Q7 last month because numerous wrestling fans genuinely wanted to see the guy make his big comeback; so nah, the numbers aren’t as ‘black and white’ as you say it is here.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Yea, I refuse to budge on my points.


And like I just showed, once they saw what he was going to do, they promptly changed the channel again.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> Yeah, it popped 100K people who tuned into see what he was going to do, then promptly left when they saw what that was.
> 
> View attachment 133486


And that is due to trios. Not Omega.









A trios match that is actually story-driven and the hottest feud in the company only popped 40k viewers and lost half of that. Trios do not draw. Has nothing to do with Omega. Trios. Trios. Trios.

The audience tunes in if you can give them a visual, but trios/multiman clusterfuck matches simply do not retain audiences.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> And that is due to trios. Not Omega.
> View attachment 133487
> 
> 
> A trios match that is actually story-driven and the hottest feud in the company only popped 40k viewers and lost half of that. Trios do not draw. Has nothing to do with Omega. Trios. Trios. Trios.


Yeah, trios suck. Punk lost a lot less there though.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> Yeah, trios suck. Punk lost a lot less there though.


Because it was an actual story-driven match, not just a TK created, heatless fucking tournament match against opponents that no one gives a shit about in Andrade and two guys with a combined total of 5 episodes of Dynamite exposure.


----------



## Wolf Mark

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, they should keep doing fun trios matches, and keep pushing young rising talents like Daniel Garcia plus Wheeler Yuta too.


I lift my hat to your trolling, sir!


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Because it was an actual story-driven match, not just a TK created, heatless fucking tournament match against opponents that no one gives a shit about in Andrade and two guys with a combined total of 5 episodes of Dynamite exposure.


Wait, wait, you mean good characters and storylines are what people want to see and not just random heatless matches packed full of meaningless movez? I am completely shocked by this information!


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> And like I just showed, once they saw what he was going to do, they promptly changed the channel again.


You *just* admitted that Kenny Omega drew a noticeable boost in viewership here (which he clearly did); so you basically just contradicted yourself.


----------



## DammitChrist

Wolf Mark said:


> I lift my hat to your trolling, sir!


I’m dead-serious though.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> Wait, wait, you mean good characters and storylines are what people want to see and not just random heatless matches packed full of meaningless movez? I am completely shocked by this information!


Yes. So, I’m not sure why you continue trying to portray that Omega isn’t typically a draw for the company.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> You *just* admitted that Kenny Omega drew a noticeable boost in viewership here (which he clearly did); so you basically just contradicted yourself.


No, I did not. I said people tuned into see his return and what he would be doing (though, it was much less than the peak of the show so it was hardly any kind of big return other than getting viewers from the 9:30 women's mass tuneout). Once they saw him return and what he was going to do, they all left again.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

Chan Hung said:


> Well shit. They did higher numbers with no Punk, no Elite. Not sure how to spin this.


It's almost as if they should have been pushing Bryan in the main event spotlight. I like Omega and the Bucks but I don't like them together


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> Wait, wait, you mean good characters and storylines are what people want to see and not just random heatless matches packed full of meaningless movez? I am completely shocked by this information!


That’s pretty funny because the highest rated quarterly segment for this week was Swerve Strickland/Keith Lee vs Lucha Bros, which was pretty much filled with MOVES and flips.

Again, you’re wrong since this example alone also debunks this myth that workrate, flips, and moves (which are all important btw) ‘don’t’ draw.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Yes. So, I’m not sure why you continue trying to portray that Omega isn’t typically a draw for the company.


I am not saying he is not A draw. Just not anything to stop the presses about.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Excellent rating.

Consistent quarters and peaking 18-49 in the ME.

Lowest quarter almost 1.1 Mil could be the best minus the premiere and maybe Grandslam (don't remember quaterly numbers for premiere) last year if memory serves me correct.


----------



## DammitChrist

Yea, the quarterly ratings for the women’s tag match is still a positive since the lowest point of the show still drew over 1 million viewers.

Most of the TV audience got to see Serena Deeb, Athena, Toni Storm, and Britt Baker work a really good tag match here.

Excellent workers like Serena and Athena deserved that big exposure (since they’ve generally been featured on either Rampage or on the YouTube shows lately).


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> That’s pretty funny because the highest rated quarterly segment for this week was Swerve Strickland/Keith Lee vs Lucha Bros, which was pretty much filled with MOVES and flips.
> 
> Again, you’re wrong since this example alone also debunks this myth that workrate, flips, and moves (which are all important btw) ‘doesn’t’ draw.


How was it the highest rated..oh wait, I forgot the demo does not matter except when it benefits you. It was a tag title match, though it was heatless.

The outlier does not disprove the trend.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, the quarterly ratings for the women’s tag match is still a positive since the lowest point of the show still drew over 1 million viewers.
> 
> Most of the TV audience got to see Serena Deeb, Athena, Toni Storm, and Britt Baker work a really good tag match here.
> 
> Excellent workers like Serena and Athena deserved that big exposure (since they’ve generally been featured on either Rampage or on the YouTube shows lately).


Athena? Excellent worker? Now I know you have fallen and hit your head lately.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> How was it the highest rated..oh wait, I forgot the demo does not matter except when it benefits you. It was a tag title match, though it was heatless.
> 
> The outlier does not disprove the trend.


I mean, I’ve been claiming that both of those metrics matter over the past year, dude.


----------



## bdon

If we want to just leave it at TK is scared to fucking death of booking stars with stars doing star-like shit, then I think we are in agreement, @One Shed .


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> Athena? Excellent worker? Now I know you have fallen and hit your head lately.


Really, dude?

I’ve seen Athena’s (tag) matches/highlights over the past few years with Asuka, Sasha Banks, Io Shirai, Candice LeRae, and Dakota Kai; which were generally pretty good.

She even had some great wrestling exchanges with Serena Deeb last night too, which would be a great preview for a future singles match-up.

I guarantee that if you allow Athena to wrestle someone like Serena Deeb or Hikaru Shida for 15+ minutes in a highly prominent match-up, that you’ll likely see a pretty darn good women’s match.


----------



## bdon

DammitChrist said:


> Really, dude?
> 
> I’ve seen Athena’s (tag) matches/highlights over the past few years with Asuka, Sasha Banks, Io Shirai, Candice LeRae, and Dakota Kai; which were generally pretty good.
> 
> She even had some great wrestling exchanges with Serena Deeb last night too, which would be a great preview for a future singles match-up.
> 
> I guarantee that if you allow Athena to wrestle someone like Serena Deeb or Hikaru Shida for 15+ minutes in a highly prominent match-up, that you’ll likely see a pretty darn good women’s match.


None of the women’s matches are ever going to draw shit, because TK makes no effort to give them any TV time with a live mic or even a vignette outside of Britt and Jade. Stories need time to flesh out, which is why having a roster of 180 talents is ridiculous.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Really, dude?
> 
> I’ve seen Athena’s (tag) matches/highlights over the past few years with Asuka, Sasha Banks, Io Shirai, Candice LeRae, and Dakota Kai; which were generally pretty good.
> 
> She even had some great wrestling exchanges with Serena Deeb last night too, which would be a great preview for a future singles match-up.
> 
> I guarantee that if you allow Athena to wrestle someone like Serena Deeb or Hikaru Shida for 15+ minutes in a highly prominent match-up, that you’ll likely see a pretty darn good women’s match.


If they actually put 15 minutes of her wrestling on a show, it would make a trios match segment look like a mega draw.


----------



## bdon

Facts are that dating back to when the show debuted, they have always had a problem with letting the top talent mingle amongst each other. I am sure it is TK’s attempt to avoid placing a glass ceiling like Jericho, Eddie, Benoit, etc faced at WCW, but it hurts your overall television program. Even before they had Punk, Bryan, and the like, they still had a fucking bang up top of the card main event scene in Cody, Omega, Jericho, Mox, Hangman, MJF, and Pac. No reason those guys couldn’t have their stories constantly intertwining, unless you fear the fans bitching…like we currently do about Jericho being a heat vampire. Because we want our cake and eat it, too.

So yeah, I understand TK’s dilemma, but it doesn’t help the overall television show.


----------



## Wolf Mark

DammitChrist said:


> I’m dead-serious though.


No you're not!


----------



## Hell No

Wow that's a great number


----------



## Wolf Mark

bdon said:


> And that is due to trios. Not Omega.
> View attachment 133487
> 
> 
> A trios match that is actually story-driven and the hottest feud in the company only popped 40k viewers and lost half of that. Trios do not draw. Has nothing to do with Omega. Trios. Trios. Trios.
> 
> The audience tunes in if you can give them a visual, but trios/multiman clusterfuck matches simply do not retain audiences.


Trios should only exist in this form:


----------



## One Shed

Wolf Mark said:


> Trios should only exist in this form:


Also in the Torrie Wilson, Dawn Marie, and me form.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> If they actually put 15 minutes of her wrestling on a show, it would make a trios match segment look like a mega draw.


The trios tournament was fun, but you have to be a person who enjoys the art of the matches, even if they lack story. Kind of like the barrier NJPW faces with Western audiences.

But goddamn, I can’t stand trios matches. It’s lazy and feels like just a way to get other guys on television, which diverts the audience’s attention away from the matchup they want to see. Like Kenny and Will or Kenny and Hangman in the finals for instance.

Lazy shit.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> Also in the Torrie Wilson, Dawn Marie, and me form.


Dawn Marie is such an overlooked choice of hottest ladies in wrestling history. No other female oozed “I will suck your dick, fat fan or beefy wrestler” like her. Hah


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Dawn Marie is such an overlooked choice of hottest ladies in wrestling history. No other female oozed “I will suck your dick, fat fan or beefy wrestler” like her. Hah


She has always been in my top 5 in wrestling. I know you hate WWE, but I hope you have seen clips of her "interactions" with Torrie Wilson in WWE.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> The trios tournament was fun, but you have to be a person who enjoys the art of the matches, even if they lack story. Kind of like the barrier NJPW faces with Western audiences.
> 
> But goddamn, I can’t stand trios matches. It’s lazy and feels like just a way to get other guys on television, which diverts the audience’s attention away from the matchup they want to see. Like Kenny and Will or Kenny and Hangman in the finals for instance.
> 
> Lazy shit.


The way they are done today, they do not even devolve into no rules, anything goes, nothing matters forgettable nonsense, they are that from bell to bell. It is just an opportunity for guys to try and one up each other on how much choreography they can memorize and perform without stopping/selling/let the match breathe. Just awful.


----------



## hybrid92_

have to hand it to TK that's a great number. I enjoyed the show a lot more than last weeks.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> She has always been in my top 5 in wrestling. I know you hate WWE, but I hope you have seen clips of her "interactions" with Torrie Wilson in WWE.


No, I have not, but I might have to look them up.


----------



## Wolf Mark

One Shed said:


> Also in the Torrie Wilson, Dawn Marie, and me form.


How about the classic old HLA


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> No, I have not, but I might have to look them up.


Make sure you are alone


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> She has always been in my top 5 in wrestling. I know you hate WWE, but I hope you have seen clips of her "interactions" with Torrie Wilson in WWE.


Goddamn.

One clip and I see what I missed out on. The hotel room make out session!


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> Make sure you are alone


This was the first one I seen on YouTube. Haha


----------



## NascarStan

DammitChrist said:


> Except for the fact that Kenny Omega’s *big* return actually saw a noticeable rise in viewership for Q7 last month because numerous wrestling fans genuinely wanted to see the guy make his big comeback; so nah, the numbers aren’t as ‘black and white’ as you say it is here.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Yea, I refuse to budge on my points.


You dont have a point


----------



## RainmakerV2

The bucks clusterfucks always do shit numbers. No surprise.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> The bucks clusterfucks always do shit numbers. No surprise.


Nah, that's very inaccurate since it ignores the fact that the Young Bucks helped draw one of the highest rated quarterly hour segments in AEW history at Fight for the Fallen 2021 in their 25+ minute match; which kills this myth that they 'kill' the ratings from that example alone, especially when they're 2 of the handful of men who are responsible for bringing a good portion of wrestling fans from NJPW into committing with AEW on a weekly basis.

The Young Bucks do solid/good numbers, and they're partially responsible for building up this company too


----------



## THANOS

RuthlessAttitude said:


> If that All Elite Women show is actually happening then take female matches off Dynamite and have them on the new show and Rampage. Make Dynamite a male division show.


I couldn't agree more. Take them off the show and give them their own show. Then hire a different Booker to book that show who understands how to book women and get them over.


----------



## zkorejo

If Jade Cargill vs Britt Baker doesn't do good numbers... Time to pack it up and give them even less Dynamite time. 

Everyone that whines about women's division not getting more time.. this is why.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, the quarterly ratings for the women’s tag match is still a positive since the lowest point of the show still drew over 1 million viewers.
> 
> Most of the TV audience got to see Serena Deeb, Athena, Toni Storm, and Britt Baker work a really good tag match here.
> 
> Excellent workers like Serena and Athena deserved that big exposure (since they’ve generally been featured on either Rampage or on the YouTube shows lately).


Do you ever stop being a bot? Serena, Toni and Athena are atrocious....You have to be one of the most annoying posters ever.


----------



## Gn1212

3venflow said:


> View attachment 133464


This is a fantastic rating and finally a show where it all didn't go downhill once the the first segment ended.

Who would've guessed putting a good *structured *show would keep people tuned in.

Fascinating to see how Grand Slam does.


----------



## zkorejo

I hope Punk and Elite check their egos on the door when they return back to AEW and try to play nice. 

This ratings number is a statement that AEW can do fine without them.


----------



## DammitChrist

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> Do you ever stop being a bot? Serena, Toni and Athena are atrocious....*You have to be one of the most annoying posters ever.*


Ha, that's some good irony here.

Anyway, since you made that false statement about them; I guess Serena Deeb, Toni Storm, and Athena really are good female talents after all, so thanks for confirming that for me once again


----------



## bdon

zkorejo said:


> I hope Punk and Elite check their egos on the door when they return back to AEW and try to play nice.
> 
> This ratings number is a statement that AEW can do fine without them.


Junctions haven’t been handed out yet. Until they are, AEW probably gets to ride the wave of news following their white Ford Bronco.

So to speak.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Holy shit, even when AEW does excellent nbetd this place turns into a bitchfest. 


Seriously, WTF is wrong with people?


----------



## GarpTheFist

The XL 2 said:


> It's like I said, the Bucks and Omega aren't stars. Pretty damn big rating without them



I like how you conveniently leave out punk but gotta push the agenda amirite? The biggest match he can have in aew currently with mox did almost 200k less than this episode. If anything, this proves punk isn't a draw and isn't needed. It's embarrassing that this episode did a much higher number than a PPV worthy match on free tv with the alleged ratings draw.


----------



## Top bins

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it better not fucking open - i hate it when they start with a title match
> 
> EXCEPT…. If Swerve in our Glory v the Acclaimed main events


From my memory I may be wrong but I don't think Omega vs Danielson was for the title. With the 60 time limit draw they did it made complete sense to put that match first as you'd end the show on a weak ending. 

I highly doubt (although have been proven otherwise by Tony Khan) that he is stupid enough to put Moxley and Danielson on first. I would be mortified if that was the first match next week.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

zkorejo said:


> I hope Punk and Elite check their egos on the door when they return back to AEW and try to play nice.
> 
> This ratings number is a statement that AEW can do fine without them.


The ratings without the Elite and Punk shows they are all expendable losers and should all be fired or released if requested. The bucks first of all always crash the ratings so they should be cut tomorrow.


----------



## Tell it like it is

The XL 2 said:


> It's like I said, the Bucks and Omega aren't stars. Pretty damn big rating without them


Don't give a shit about ratings but counter point on the Elite: While their trios matches haven't drawn well, last year's run of 1 million viewers and .40+ demo all summer long and into the fall came with Kenny Omega and The Bucks at the top of the card. No one has touched those numbers since in minute by minute, until someone does Kenny is the biggest drawing champion.


----------



## bdon

Tell it like it is said:


> Don't give a shit about ratings but counter point on the Elite: While their trios matches haven't drawn well, last year's run of 1 million viewers and .40+ demo all summer long and into the fall came with Kenny Omega and The Bucks at the top of the card. No one has touched those numbers since in minute by minute, until someone does Kenny is the biggest drawing champion.


Facts.


----------



## kingfunkel

Great rating. Stayed above 1m throughout a 2 hour period. The women's division is still a main issue but still kept it above 1m. Britt was red hot last year and she's sizzled away with bad booking. 
On the top of the hour 1.2m were tuned in and between 9-9:30 they lost 130k before regaining 70k. I'd love to see the minute by minute to see where they left.

All in all fantastic numbers. Especially in the main event, which has been a bit of a rating curse for a while now.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Top bins said:


> From my memory I may be wrong but I don't think Omega vs Danielson was for the title. With the 60 time limit draw they did it made complete sense to put that match first as you'd end the show on a weak ending.
> 
> I highly doubt (although have been proven otherwise by Tony Khan) that he is stupid enough to put Moxley and Danielson on first. I would be mortified if that was the first match next week.


it wasn’t for the title - and it had a 30min time limit as a result

opening with it though was the worst booking call TK has ever made - and i don’t say that lightly

the crowd doesn’t know how much tv time is remaining, you could’ve started it 9:30 like they did Kenny v Pac that one time and it would’ve been fine


----------



## RuthlessAttitude

There's a case to be made the Jericho vs Danielson is the biggest main event they have done, in the eyes of casuals.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it wasn’t for the title - and it had a 30min time limit as a result
> 
> opening with it though was the worst booking call TK has ever made - and i don’t say that lightly
> 
> the crowd doesn’t know how much tv time is remaining, you could’ve started it 9:30 like they did Kenny v Pac that one time and it would’ve been fine


Desperate to pop a rating. The crowd was as electric for those two as any you’ll see. It was AEW’s version of Hogan and Andre in a show that was, at the time, AEW’s coming out party to the world, and they squandered it. 

In the annals of AEW history, Britt Baker main evented the only 20k seat show AEW has ever done. That’s a travesty.


----------



## fabi1982

Good 50+ number, interesting to understand why so much more of them showed up this week. Anyways this number says alot about general draw power, drama is what counts. If they can keep that momentum for next week I will be shocked.


----------



## Wolf Mark

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Holy shit, even when AEW does excellent nbetd this place turns into a bitchfest.
> 
> 
> Seriously, WTF is wrong with people?












Seriously though it was a steady strong number. It's the first time I have seen a Dynamite line where it doesn't go up or down, it maintained the same tragectory throughout the show.


----------



## Not Lying

Jungle Boy holding that rating down in Q3-Q4 is mighty impressive. True pillar.


----------



## Jay Trotter

50+ demo is the reason for this big bump. Did the casual viewers get caught up on the scandal after last weeks show? It makes sense since they are the silent majority that doesn't keep up with the dirtsheets. Did they tune back in like this cause it could've been have a work to them? Let's see how things shake out next week cause this feels like an anomaly. You would expect this more for the post All Out show or Grand Slam. Not this week.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Wolf Mark said:


> Seriously though it was a steady strong number. It's the first time I have seen a Dynamite line where it doesn't go up or down, it maintained the same tragectory throughout the show.


Yeah of all the shows, this show was the one that maintained the audience lol. Maybe all the folks with ratings boxes went out to party and left their boxes running to show their undying support for aew?


----------



## Not Lying

The show maintaining viewers has A LOT TO DO with having a godamn good main event advertised.


----------



## Jaxon

thats a great number, hopefully they can continue to get these numbers


----------



## 3venflow

It was the joint fifth most-watched episode of Dynamite (live + same day) for those interested.

Interestingly, it was joint with the episode from almost exactly the same date last year (Sept 15 last year, Sept 14 this year).

Top five:

1. Episode #1 (pilot show) - 1,409,000
2. Fallout from All Out 2021 (after Danielson and Cole debuted) - 1,319,000
3. Grand Slam 2021 (Omega vs. Danielson) - 1,273,000
4. 4/14/21 edition with Mike Tyson as enforcer in Dax/Jericho - 1,219,000
5. This week's edition and last year's equivalent edition - 1,175,000

The 18-49 demo share was higher on last year's shows however (post-All Out 2021 doing their best ever non-pilot rating at 0.53).


----------



## Stevieg786

Not Lying said:


> The show maintaining viewers has A LOT TO DO with having a godamn good main event advertised.


THIS!

from now on they need their main eventers in the main event spot, not some trios or jobbers headlining


----------



## 3venflow

Meltzer's take on the rating.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*These are the numbers AEW should be getting. No complaints here. I just hate that Jericho is taking full credit for a Bryan Danielson World Championship main event.  I'm glad that Tony Khan got his s*** together and figured out what needs to go on last though.*


----------



## RainmakerV2

I'm gonna attribute this to no Wheeler Utah.


----------



## MEMS

Get the title on Danielson. Dude is a draw! Imagine he was still doing the YES shit


----------



## omaroo

Big rating for sure.

You would think it will be similiar for sure for next weeks show. 

Will be interesting to see how long they can maintain over a million viewers for as you would think inevitably it may go back under a million.

If long term they are doing similar ratings then wouldn't seem all doom and gloom without the elite and punk.


----------



## ChrammitDist

Another GREAT and MASSIVE rating, which just proves what me and other REAL wrestling fans have been saying all this time,and that's that workrate DOES draw 
Oh and for the record, Wheeler Utah Jazz is the next Stone Cold Steve Austin


----------



## omaroo

I smell a troll account!


----------



## ChrammitDist

omaroo said:


> I smell a troll account!


If you're referring to me, you're sorely mistaken,PAL! I ain't no ''troll account'' dawg, I just appreciate workrate wrasslin and am HUGE Marko Stunt enthusiast 
Oh and by the way you're just jealous of my superior wrestling taste,that's okay


----------



## One Shed

I welcome this new user and look forward to his future contribution to...


...ANNNNNND ITS GONE!


----------



## Dr. Middy

ChrammitDist said:


> If you're referring to me, you're sorely mistaken,PAL! I ain't no ''troll account'' dawg, I just appreciate workrate wrasslin and am HUGE Marko Stunt enthusiast
> Oh and by the way you're just jealous of my superior wrestling taste,that's okay


@HookedOnThuganomics Kind of a lame attempt bro.


----------



## Prosper

Even with all the shit going down, ratings have stayed over a milli and demos looking solid. Good shit.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

Dr. Middy said:


> @HookedOnThuganomics Kind of a lame attempt bro.


That wasn't me, cool story bro. I have more important things to worry about than creating a troll account for that tool


----------



## Wolf Mark

Stevieg786 said:


> THIS!
> 
> from now on they need their main eventers in the main event spot, not some trios or jobbers headlining


That's all we've ever asked, putting your top guys in the maint event.


----------



## ElTerrible

3venflow said:


> View attachment 133464


So let´s see stars, promos, more stars, promos, more stars, women, more stars. 

Let´s play find the weak link. 

Sure there are big stars like Moxley, Jericho, Danielson, but there are also "home-made stars" like Guevara, JungleBoy, Hobbs, Starks, Hook, Orange Cassidy, Pac, Lucha Bros, Swerve In Our Glory, that have shown they can carry a segment or two. Just stop over-exposing the enhancement talent with no personality yet like Yuta, Garcia etc.


----------



## mazzah20

Last week the AEW Galaxy saw Daniel Garcia win the ROH Pure Title. This week everybody waited in anticipation to see the end of the Jericho vs Bryan match, and who Daniel Garcia would swear his allegiance too.

Only explanation for the ratings this week. They were there for the Heartbreak Yid Daniel Garcia.


----------



## GarpTheFist

ChrammitDist said:


> If you're referring to me, you're sorely mistaken,PAL! I ain't no ''troll account'' dawg, I just appreciate workrate wrasslin and am HUGE Marko Stunt enthusiast
> Oh and by the way you're just jealous of my superior wrestling taste,that's okay



@DammitChrist did you make another account to double the amount of eyerolls you hand out?


----------



## IronMan8

One Shed said:


> It was a bad call though. You had a lot of people tuning into see the program due to the buzz from the previous several days and what they chose to present as a main event chased away any of those potential new or lapsed viewers.
> 
> I understand the argument many make that it is "fine" for the company to just cater to the existing hardcore fans. If that is the argument, fine, but you do not get to then say this catering is building and growing their fanbase and audience when it clearly is not.
> 
> People just need to acknowledge the reality that many things they choose to present as much less popular than others.


We can now say with certainty the Yuta/Garcia decision was a good call.

Dynamite drew the 3rd highest rating ever a week later, which means they were able to put serious equity into two 25yos for the future without any cost in the short-term.

Smart move in an industry that leans too heavily on 40yos+ IMO


----------



## CovidFan

The amount of mental gymnastics to reach that conclusion...and the fact you had his post saved or went back and grabbed a post that deep back says a lot.

istandwithAEW.jpeg here


----------



## Gn1212

5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ said:


> *These are the numbers AEW should be getting. No complaints here. I just hate that Jericho is taking full credit for a Bryan Danielson World Championship main event. I'm glad that Tony Khan got his s*** together and figured out what needs to go on last though.*


Can't wait for him to put Mox v Bryan for the World Title as the opener next week.


----------



## IronMan8

CovidFan said:


> The amount of mental gymnastics to reach that conclusion...and the fact you had his post saved or went back and grabbed a post that deep back says a lot.
> 
> istandwithAEW.jpeg here


It's from last week, I just clicked on my notifications tab and it was right there, so I thought why not. 

We basically agreed that while the idea of elevating young guys is sound, the timing was risky. They were potentially sacrificing the temporary CM Punk buzz on something with too much of a short-term cost to be worthwhile.

- If ratings drop, then it was a bad call because nobody would be around to see the fruits of the investment.

- If ratings hold or climb, then it was a good call because it gives AEW more tickets to cash in later to keep future viewers interested.

This week's number confirms the decision didn't cost them anything.

So, last week they elevated two 25yos without cost, and that's objectively always a good thing for any wrestling company to do. If you see a flaw in my conclusion, please feel free to point it out while I wait on the edge of my seat ;p


----------



## 3venflow

AEW will likely run Revolution 2023 at the Cow Palace in San Francisco, California, per Fightful.

It'll be their first show at the Cow Palace, which can seat around 14,000 for basketball and 16,500 for concerts.

Not a lot has happened there with major promotions in recent times.

NJPW 7/7/18: 6,333 (Omega vs. Cody)
WWE 2/11/12: 4,000 (Orton vs. Barrett)
WWE 4/14/10: 6,000 (Undertaker/Edge/Mysterio vs. Jericho/Punk/Gallows)

Further back, Eddie Guerrero beat Brock Lesnar for the WWE Title there at No Way Out 2004, with that show drawing 11,000.


----------



## CovidFan

IronMan8 said:


> It's from last week <snip>


I realize that which is why I mentioned it.

So what you're saying is that there was an actual question of if those two could retain viewers? Anyone on this planet who follows wrestling could've told you they'd drop viewers. They gained exactly 0 from putting them in the main event. In fact, they lost because they immediately lost viewers. This week shows that if you announce a couple of strong matches and actually hold off and put one of them in the main event that people will stay to see stars. ofc you know this but istandwithAEW.jpeg


----------



## DammitChrist

Nah, 1+ million viewers ended up seeing Daniel Garcia vs Wheeler Yuta within the last several minutes (due to their great wrestling match) by around the end; so big kudos to both those men for helping maintain interest in last week's show


----------



## IronMan8

CovidFan said:


> I realize that which is why I mentioned it.
> 
> So what you're saying is that there was an actual question of if those two could retain viewers? Anyone on this planet who follows wrestling could've told you they'd drop viewers. They gained exactly 0 from putting them in the main event. In fact, they lost because they immediately lost viewers. This week shows that if you announce a couple of strong matches and actually hold off and put one of them in the main event that people will stay to see stars. ofc you know this but istandwithAEW.jpeg


Annnnnd on the ignore list you go.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

3venflow said:


> AEW will likely run Revolution 2023 at the Cow Palace in San Francisco, California, per Fightful.
> 
> It'll be their first show at the Cow Palace, which can seat around 14,000 for basketball and 16,500 for concerts.
> 
> Not a lot has happened there with major promotions in recent times.
> 
> NJPW 7/7/18: 6,333 (Omega vs. Cody)
> WWE 2/11/12: 4,000 (Orton vs. Barrett)
> WWE 4/14/10: 6,000 (Undertaker/Edge/Mysterio vs. Jericho/Punk/Gallows)
> 
> Further back, Eddie Guerrero beat Brock Lesnar for the WWE Title there at No Way Out 2004, with that show drawing 11,000.


I think they should have gone to Sacramento. Probably doesn't matter all that much because the cities aren't far apart, but, as you noted, Cow Palace has been a moderate draw. I am quite sure Sacramento would draw a big number.

Of course, this being AEW'S first foray into NoCal should be a big drawing card, in and of itself, for them. Hope so.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571952023309778944


----------



## 3venflow

The taped Rampage got maybe a little momentum from a high-rating Dynamite but nothing major.

This week's Rampage Grand Slam will be a two-hour special from 10pm to midnight. Given the strength of the card, you'd expect some sort of bump even if it does go late into the night.

After the last two Rampages of September, it will become a regular live show through October instead of taped nearly every week.

*9/16: 470,000 / 0.14*
9/9: 429,000 / 0.14
9/2: 485,000 / 0.16
8/26: 431,000 / 0.11
8/19: 461,000 / 0.12
8/12: 528,000 / 0.17
8/5: 468,000 / 0.15
7/29: 375,000 / 0.11
7/22: 428,000 / 0.17
7/15: 435,000 / 0.14


----------



## RuthlessAttitude

3venflow said:


> AEW will likely run Revolution 2023 at the Cow Palace in San Francisco, California, per Fightful.
> 
> It'll be their first show at the Cow Palace, which can seat around 14,000 for basketball and 16,500 for concerts.
> 
> Not a lot has happened there with major promotions in recent times.
> 
> NJPW 7/7/18: 6,333 (Omega vs. Cody)
> WWE 2/11/12: 4,000 (Orton vs. Barrett)
> WWE 4/14/10: 6,000 (Undertaker/Edge/Mysterio vs. Jericho/Punk/Gallows)
> 
> Further back, Eddie Guerrero beat Brock Lesnar for the WWE Title there at No Way Out 2004, with that show drawing 11,000.


Hmm I remember WCW holding 3 Superbrawl PPVs at that venue in the late 90's. We know how much of a self confessed mark Tony is for that promotion, during that era.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

3venflow said:


> The taped Rampage got maybe a little momentum from a high-rating Dynamite but nothing major.
> 
> This week's Rampage Grand Slam will be a two-hour special from 10pm to midnight. Given the strength of the card, you'd expect some sort of bump even if it does go late into the night.
> 
> After the last two Rampages of September, it will become a regular live show through October instead of taped nearly every week.
> 
> *9/16: 470,000 / 0.14*
> 9/9: 429,000 / 0.14
> 9/2: 485,000 / 0.16
> 8/26: 431,000 / 0.11
> 8/19: 461,000 / 0.12
> 8/12: 528,000 / 0.17
> 8/5: 468,000 / 0.15
> 7/29: 375,000 / 0.11
> 7/22: 428,000 / 0.17
> 7/15: 435,000 / 0.14


Cow Palace is one of my favourite arenas. Lotta history there. I wish the Hara Arena was still around.


----------



## Aedubya

-----Anything above 0.80 is ok, Anything above 0.85 is good, anything above 0.9 is v good , anything above 0.95 is brilliant , anything above 1.0 is outstanding-----

OUTSTANDING


----------



## IronMan8

This week's Raw ~ 1.5 million 
Last week's Dynamite ~1.2 million

Competition raises all boats... could it happen anytime soon?


----------



## Geert Wilders

IronMan8 said:


> This week's Raw ~ 1.5 million
> Last week's Dynamite ~1.2 million
> 
> Competition raises all boats... could it happen anytime soon?


I remember when people were saying this last year and the year before that.


----------



## IronMan8

Geert Wilders said:


> I remember when people were saying this last year and the year before that.


Me too, but the gap is smaller each year


----------



## kingfunkel

IronMan8 said:


> This week's Raw ~ 1.5 million
> Last week's Dynamite ~1.2 million
> 
> Competition raises all boats... could it happen anytime soon?


Only if Punk and the elite can put their egos aside and make some money from this disaster. 
Unfortunately their hottest angle going forward went down with the drain. After a compelling story was coming back round, it's kinda left MJF and their patience in no man's land.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

IronMan8 said:


> Me too, but the gap is smaller each year


It was 1.6 and Raw went up against 2 NFLGames this week. Not the norm at all. Guess the overall number matters this week then.


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite won't hit 1.5m viewers on cable unless of something very unforeseen or the cable industry turning itself around. You're playing to fewer viewers every year so it's a monumental task. They have millions fewer potential viewers now than in 2019 due to relentless cord-cutting and no decades-long brand value to fall back on.

They should instead focus on getting the 18-49 over .40 as much as possible before renewal time, as that'll give them more negotiating leverage than a couple hundred thousand extra boomers tuning in.


----------



## BettsyUK

1.1mil rating tonight, 2hr rampage with that stellar card should do around 600k, (providing it's pushed on tonight's broadcast.) 

I don't think Dynamite will increase in rating but shouldn't dip below a million ethier.


----------



## just_one

in a perfect world yesterday would do 1.4 but im seeing them doing around 1/1.1 unfortunally


----------



## CovidFan

They put the championship on last so I'd like to think it can do around last week's # so I'm going with 1.2.


----------



## Aedubya

1.08


----------



## zkorejo

3venflow said:


> Dynamite won't hit 1.5m viewers on cable unless of something very unforeseen or the cable industry turning itself around. You're playing to fewer viewers every year so it's a monumental task. They have millions fewer potential viewers now than in 2019 due to relentless cord-cutting and no decades-long brand value to fall back on.
> 
> They should instead focus on getting the 18-49 over .40 as much as possible before renewal time, as that'll give them more negotiating leverage than a couple hundred thousand extra boomers tuning in.


I always look for @3venflow posts in this thread. Always with facts and good opinions.


----------



## Prosper

I’m thinking they stay consistent with last week at 1.2 mil, hopefully at a 0.40+ in the demo.


----------



## RuthlessAttitude

From a casual standpoint and in terms of the over 50's, who lean heavily towards WWE, it was very well structured. 

Claudio "Cesaro" Castagnoli vs Chris Jericho For a world title

Acclaimed vs Keith Lee and Stickland 
Acclaimed are red hot right now and would work well in WWE. 

MJF promo 

PAC vs Orange Cassidy
They have good chemistry and pulled a huge number on YouTube in 2020.

Surprise "Paige" debut 

Bryan "Daniel Bryan" Danielson vs Jon "Dean Ambrose" Moxley.
For the vacant title and very difficult match to call. Didn't even conclude until 21:58.

Not sure Khan could put on a stronger show in terms of pulling in the Raw and Smackdown viewer.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 1,039,000
18-49: 0.35

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

9/14: 1,175,000 / 0.39
9/7: 1,035,000 / 0.38
8/31: 1,020,000 / 0.35
8/24 1,049,000 / 0.34
8/17: 957,000 / 0.30
8/10: 972,000 / 0.33
8/3: 938,000 / 0.32
7/27: 976,000 / 0.33


----------



## Hotdiggity11

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 1,039,000
> 18-49: 0.35
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 9/14: 1.175,000 / 0.39
> 9/7: 1,035,000 / 0.38
> 8/31: 1,020,000 / 0.35
> 8/24 1,049,000 / 0.34
> 8/17: 957,000 / 0.30
> 8/10: 972,000 / 0.33
> 8/3: 938,000 / 0.32
> 7/27: 976,000 / 0.33



So, last week was definitely an outlier.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 1,039,000
> 18-49: 0.35
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 9/14: 1.175,000 / 0.39
> 9/7: 1,035,000 / 0.38
> 8/31: 1,020,000 / 0.35
> 8/24 1,049,000 / 0.34
> 8/17: 957,000 / 0.30
> 8/10: 972,000 / 0.33
> 8/3: 938,000 / 0.32
> 7/27: 976,000 / 0.33


meh - was hoping they’d creep back towards 0.40 with this show


----------



## BettsyUK

RuthlessAttitude said:


> From a casual standpoint and in terms of the over 50's, who lean heavily towards WWE, it was very well structured.
> 
> Claudio "Cesaro" Castagnoli vs Chris Jericho For a world title
> 
> Acclaimed vs Keith Lee and Stickland
> Acclaimed are red hot right now and would work well in WWE.
> 
> MJF promo
> 
> PAC vs Orange Cassidy
> They have good chemistry and pulled a huge number on YouTube in 2020.
> 
> Surprise "Paige" debut
> 
> Bryan "Daniel Bryan" Danielson vs Jon "Dean Ambrose" Moxley.
> For the vacant title and very difficult match to call. Didn't even conclude until 21:58.
> 
> Not sure Khan could put on a stronger show in terms of pulling in the Raw and Smackdown viewer.





3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 1,039,000
> 18-49: 0.35
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 9/14: 1.175,000 / 0.39
> 9/7: 1,035,000 / 0.38
> 8/31: 1,020,000 / 0.35
> 8/24 1,049,000 / 0.34
> 8/17: 957,000 / 0.30
> 8/10: 972,000 / 0.33
> 8/3: 938,000 / 0.32
> 7/27: 976,000 / 0.33


Good rating, about in line with what I thought. Next week may have a bump back up to the 1.1mil range with the Paige appearance and a lot of titles changing hands.

Will be interesting to see where the dip was, as I expect the show to have held up well during the first hour.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Masked singer is a force to be reckoned with


----------



## Top bins

BettsyUK said:


> Good rating, about in line with what I thought. Next week may have a bump back up to the 1.1mil range with the Paige appearance and a lot of titles changing hands.
> 
> Will be interesting to see where the dip was, as I expect the show to have held up well during the first hour.


I would guess it was when Orange Cassidy was on screen.


----------



## Joe Gill

Hotdiggity11 said:


> So, last week was definitely an outlier.


last week was all about the casuals tuning in after they realized there was serious backstage drama....but idiot TK chose to ignore it and move on....and some of those casuals also moved on. 
Next week will likely be back in the 900k range... followed by 800k range by november


----------



## RapShepard

Solid number, but yeah they're a long way from catching that 1 spot. This was a perfect week to do it.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573038800682782720


----------



## RapShepard

6 weeks of a million viewers and high .3s is good especially showing they can do it with just Moxley and Bryan.


----------



## RapShepard

RainmakerV2 said:


> Masked singer is a force to be reckoned with


You kid but it really is lol.


----------



## RainmakerV2

RapShepard said:


> You kid but it really is lol.



Nah I know it is lol


----------



## fabi1982

So they went down both on overall and demo for THEIR BIGGEST DYNAMITE OF THE YEAR?!

ooooh booyyyyyy


----------



## Christopher Near

3 big title marches and they went down?


----------



## 3venflow

RainmakerV2 said:


> Nah I know it is lol


Masked Singer actually had less viewers than its previous season premieres, but last night seemed to be full of network premieres (Goldbergs, Big Sky, Survivor, Chicago franchises, etc.), which probably affected it and Dynamite a little bit maybe.


----------



## La Parka

Good run by AEW here.

Hopefully they keep it up for next week and not do something like put Deeb vs Wheeler Yuta in the main event.


----------



## 3venflow

Cable charts. An easy #1 rank, with most of the competition coming from network (see above) besides the Housewives.

Can Saraya help their weakest key demographic (F18-49)?


----------



## HoneyBee

Why is there so many news programs in the rankings? Americans prefer news over good dramas.


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> Good run by AEW here.
> 
> Hopefully they keep it up for next week and not do something like put *Deeb vs Wheeler Yuta in the main event.*


Oh, great. Now I genuinely want to see that match 😂


----------



## La Parka

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, great. Now I genuinely want to see that match 😂


----------



## Dr. Middy

HoneyBee said:


> Why is there so many news programs in the rankings? Americans prefer news over good dramas.


Old people adore cable news, which is a massive problem on its own.

I'd rather remove my own left eye with a rusty spoon than watch an hour of CNN or Fox


----------



## RapShepard

Dr. Middy said:


> Old people adore cable news, which is a massive problem on its own.
> 
> I'd rather remove my own left eye with a rusty spoon than watch an hour of CNN or Fox


Yup my grandmother watches the 12 o'clock, 5 o'clock, 6 o'clock, 6:30 world news, and 11 o'clock news every day. Mind you 4 of the 5 are local hour long broadcasts lol


----------



## FITZ

Very strange how of a rating they got for September 14th. I mean it was a really good show but the same big names for the 14th (Jericho, Danielson, Moxley) were all on the card last night two and last night had bigger matches.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Also the Survivor Premiere was last night which draws more than The Mask Singer. I actually watch Survivor too that is why I am mentioning it.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

HoneyBee said:


> Why is there so many news programs in the rankings? Americans prefer news over good dramas.




Political hack opinion shows aren't news programs.


----------



## 3venflow

FITZ said:


> Very strange how of a rating they got for September 14th. I mean it was a really good show but the same big names for the 14th (Jericho, Danielson, Moxley) were all on the card last night two and last night had bigger matches.


Competition factors in obviously. RAW has lost several hundred thousand viewers because of MNF which eats into a similar audience.

With Dynamite, there was no live sports competition that would as directly share the same audience, but a ton of premieres on network.

9/14 and 9/21 side-by-side. Over 6m more people watched network at 8pm this week compared to last at a rough estimate. (Green = Premiere)


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

fabi1982 said:


> So they went down both on overall and demo for THEIR BIGGEST DYNAMITE OF THE YEAR?!
> 
> ooooh booyyyyyy


Almost as if Moxley isn't a draw, the real draw was the Elite/Punk stuff.


----------



## Tell it like it is

Well if there's something positive that comes out of this is that Kenny is still the highest drawing champion of AEW @bdon. But then again I don't care about ratings


----------



## BettsyUK

Compared to where the ratings were two months back (when it looked like AEW would never hit a mil again) this is fantastic. They just need to retain the audience and look to grow it further.

From a business perspective they could do with a mainstream celebrity or top end influencer to boost word of mouth and casual interest which may spike the viewership. If there's no spike (certainly in the female demo) from Saraya's impact than I'd say my point is proven.

I'd rather casuals tuned in due to big feel moments and shock twists, but I reckon the way of getting new viewers to tune in is via more modern methods whom may stick around due to the surprise factor those big moments could give.


----------



## Gn1212

Expected the dip but still the viewership to be over 1m.

I don't think they'll maintain that for long. Expecting total viewership to be closer 900k than 1m for the remainder of the year.


----------



## Whoanma

Tell it like it is said:


> Well if there's something positive that comes out of this is that Kenny is still the highest drawing champion of AEW @bdon. But then again I don't care about ratings
> View attachment 134080


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Yup my grandmother watches the 12 o'clock, 5 o'clock, 6 o'clock, 6:30 world news, and 11 o'clock news every day. Mind you 4 of the 5 are local hour long broadcasts lol


It is unreal how alike people in our neck of the woods are loo


----------



## Dark Emperor

Not bad. Expected them to maintain last week's numbers but i guess those viewers came for a specific reason after hearing about the suspensions.

Overall 1m is good on a consistent basis.


----------



## RuthlessAttitude

It was a tough night for competition. Then again, Raw was up against 911, The Voice, NCIS and MNF. It is what it is. Khan couldn't have put on stronger, more attractive show unless The Rock, John Cena, Batista and Brock Lesnar become All Elite! 

As a completey irrelevant side note, from looking at these ratings I just found out there's a reboot of Quantum Leap. Really need to check that out now 😂


----------



## Saintpat

RuthlessAttitude said:


> It was a tough night for competition. Then again, Raw was up against 911, The Voice, NCIS and MNF. It is what it is. Khan couldn't have put on stronger, more attractive show unless The Rock, John Cena, Batista and Brock Lesnar become All Elite!
> 
> As a completey irrelevant side note, from looking at these ratings I just found out there's a reboot of Quantum Leap. Really need to check that out now 😂


Wrestling fans live in a bubble and it’s all about WWE/AEW.

But networks live in the television world. To them it’s not about whether they beat another wrestling show, it’s where their show landed in the ratings, what the trend of those ratings are and, most importantly, what ad revenue is being generated by those ratings (no idea if it’s still true but it’s been said by industry insiders that wrestling doesn’t generate ad revenue on par with its ratings as far as what a non-wrestling show with the same numbers would generate because some advertisers don’t want to be associated with it).

So networks understand the competitive marketplace (not wrestling show vs. wrestling show but their shows vs. other shows) and realize that tough competition is going to eat into their viewers … but they still want their shows to find a way to compete against those other shows and retain/grow viewers. They don’t look at it like ‘well if The Voice wasn’t on and actually if there were no other shows on at all, everybody would have watched our shows.’ They know there is ALWAYS competition — sometimes it’s tougher (MNF, Housewives, big news event, whatever) — but they still want performance.

I’m not saying WBD is unhappy with this number but I expect on truth serum Tony would admit he expected a bigger number for this ultra-hyped show (basically a PLE on regular TV). I mean they had the huge, hot crowd and threw everything in the playbook (as far as all their available star power and promises of surprises, etc.) at it and still lost week over week.

And if he’s really being honest, he ought to be fuming at Punk and the EVPs for their actions taking away some of his biggest names going into a big show (yeah Punk was injured but if not he could have come out and done a promo or something, but the main and trios titles being vacated coming off his biggest PPV is a buzzkill).


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> It is unreal how alike people in our neck of the woods are loo


Yup lol


----------



## DammitChrist

HOLY SHIT were the ratings consistent throughout last night.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DammitChrist said:


> HOLY SHIT were the ratings consistent throughout last night.


that is an engaged audience

pretty good


----------



## DammitChrist

For the record, I'm glad that the women's Fatal 4 Way match had an increase in viewership here.

I really enjoyed that particular match. All 4 women did a pretty good job in the ring last night


----------



## Itiswhatitis

Gn1212 said:


> Expected the dip but still the viewership to be over 1m.
> 
> I don't think they'll maintain that for long. Expecting total viewership to be closer 900k than 1m for the remainder of the year.


Why would you expect a dip? It was promoted as a huge deal. It's a huge disaster. Ratings flop


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that is an engaged audience
> 
> pretty good


It is an indicator of what happens when you stop booking for one guy. Reminiscent of a year ago when Omega and The Bucks didn’t need much booking.


----------



## Gn1212

Itiswhatitis said:


> Why would you expect a dip? It was promoted as a huge deal. It's a huge disaster. Ratings flop


Oh, it is a big flop. That was genuinely one of the most packed Dynamites ever, new champions crowned, big surprise, you name it.

I know Tony will try to spin it as a win but he gave away a PPV on free TV and the ratings went down. I saw somewhere that this episode had a bigger drop from last week than RAW which had big competition.

I expected the dip myself because I've kinda gotten a grasp of how random ratings can be. I felt last week was a bit of an outlier despite being a better structured show. So this week's episode shit was back to norm. Would have probably been a lower rating if the show wasn't stacked.

Reminds me a bit of last year where they did a massive rating after All Out and then Grand Slam was up next and people thought it was gonna be even better yet the ratings went down instead.


----------



## One Shed

Trashitty dropping that key demo.


----------



## Gn1212

Don't give me the eye roll @DammitChrist .

Even Dave admitted it's a disappointing rating.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573044475055996928
That show was PPV like stacked. It's not particularly great that it didn't do better.

The only plus here is the stable viewership but it should be a worry that more people didn't tune in to watch such a stacked show?
Pretty heavy advertisement went into this as well.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573053145072148480


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

One Shed said:


> Trashitty dropping that key demo.


Nothing to do with OC 🤡 last weeks show was terrible and the ROH stuff is killing viewers too, also no Elite/Punk is killing interest on top of all of the atrocious booking.


----------



## 3venflow

By and large, this is what the networks will prioritize looking at because it contextualizes where it ranks in the big picture as ratings go up and down across the board.

Thurston says AEW have been talking to DAZN about media partnership too. Nothing has come to fruition regarding the UK, but he said they could partner for rest of the world. He spoke of how Rampage or ROH could go streaming domestically, but DAZN has a very high price-point in the USA ($19.99 p/m) so there could be pushback if they went with them.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> Trashitty dropping that key demo.


That name wasn't even on the show last night, so it's impossible to tank the key demographic numbers if he's not even on the roster in the first place.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> That name wasn't even on the show last night, so it's impossible to tank the key demographic numbers if he's not even on the roster in the first place.


Imagine still trying to pretend you do not understand how basic nicknames work.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

One Shed said:


> Imagine still trying to pretend you do not understand how basic nicknames work.


Imagine you not understanding that he's a shill


----------



## DUSTY 74




----------



## CovidFan

Disappointing but solid number.


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> By and large, this is what the networks will prioritize looking at because it contextualizes where it ranks in the big picture as ratings go up and down across the board.
> 
> Thurston says AEW have been talking to DAZN about media partnership too. Nothing has come to fruition regarding the UK, but he said they could partner for rest of the world. He spoke of how Rampage or ROH could go streaming domestically, but DAZN has a very high price-point in the USA ($19.99 p/m) so there could be pushback if they went with them.
> 
> View attachment 134084


If they go to DAZN, they are done.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> If they go to DAZN, they are done.


Yeah that's almost certain to hurt them. I don't think even Canelo did great relevancy wise under them


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Yeah that's almost certain to hurt them. I don't think even Canelo did great relevancy wise under them


I can tell you right now, I won’t be watching. Without cable television, then it is small time, will have a small time feel, and will lose the star power it has as no one is going to enjoy lack of exposure.


----------



## 3venflow

bdon said:


> I can tell you right now, I won’t be watching. Without cable television, then it is small time, will have a small time feel, and will lose the star power it has as no one is going to enjoy lack of exposure.


Well, he was mostly theorizing that Rampage or ROH could be subject to bids from DAZN, not Dynamite. Rampage's day/timeslot combo is so bad that it might not be a huge downgrade to get a lucrative streaming deal for it. He could always WWE Main Event on Hulu-ize it (cash for basic content).

Dynamite won't leave cable unless for one of the big streaming giants like Netflix or HBO Max I imagine. AEW needs its flagship show somewhere many people can see it.


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> Well, he was mostly theorizing that Rampage or ROH could be subject to bids from DAZN, not Dynamite. Rampage's day/timeslot combo is so bad that it might not be a huge downgrade to get a lucrative streaming deal for it. He could always WWE Main Event on Hulu-ize it (cash for basic content).
> 
> Dynamite won't leave cable unless for one of the big streaming giants like Netflix or HBO Max I imagine. AEW needs its flagship show somewhere many people can see it.


Ah. I misunderstood.


----------



## Jay Trotter

There you go. Proof that last weeks increase was about the casuals getting caught up on the news of their biggest scandal. They don't follow the dirtsheets like the hardcores so the controversy was a big WTF to them in the Post All Out show on 9/7. 50+ demo getting that big jump last week was based on the curiosity factor of real life drama. Last night was a PPV card given away on free TV. Not one quarter hour is over 1.1 million. Punk and Mox's five minute squash in the middle of the show did a 1.198 million on 8/24. More than everything on last night's show by a big margin and last weeks "best ratings of the year" except for the tag team titles segment build that did 1.203 million. Anyway, AEW back on a winning streak over 1 million viewers as a whole is good. Let's hope they can keep it up next week. But it helps those Elite trio matches aren't sinking the viewership anymore in the main event slot like on 8/17 and 8/31. Your main event shouldn't lose that much so it's getting back to being steady with those three off TV. Cause the pomp and circumstance of their big reunion after 9 months flopped like a fish in the numbers.


----------



## Seafort

HoneyBee said:


> Why is there so many news programs in the rankings? Americans prefer news over good dramas.


It’s modern day SportsCenter, or at the very least Sports Talk


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

DUSTY 74 said:


> View attachment 134090


This would be funnier if Renee was actually in AEW, but she's actually above AEW


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

That's a very consistent show meaning the World Title main event did work in maintaining the viewers that actually started watching the show. Problem is, there was a decline in viewers and the AEW World Title match wasn't the top quarter of the show. So it's definitely a mixed bag for that. Overall it's a solid number but definitely should've been higher given it was Grand Slam, arguably the biggest Dynamite of the year.


----------



## zkorejo

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/xld98k

Without CM Punk Or Elite lol.


----------



## zkorejo

@DammitChrist don't be sad. This is a good sign. With egos as big as these 4 guys, it should be a good slap of reality that AEW can and will do fine without any or all of them. Especially Punk.. "I'm trying to run a business here" fuck off.


----------



## DammitChrist

Jay Trotter said:


> There you go. Proof that last weeks increase was about the casuals getting caught up on the news of their biggest scandal. They don't follow the dirtsheets like the hardcores so the controversy was a big WTF to them in the Post All Out show on 9/7. 50+ demo getting that big jump last week was based on the curiosity factor of real life drama. Last night was a PPV card given away on free TV. Not one quarter hour is over 1.1 million. Punk and Mox's five minute squash in the middle of the show did a 1.198 million on 8/24. More than everything on last night's show by a big margin and last weeks "best ratings of the year" except for the tag team titles segment build that did 1.203 million. Anyway, AEW back on a winning streak over 1 million viewers as a whole is good. Let's hope they can keep it up next week. But it helps those Elite trio matches aren't sinking the viewership anymore in the main event slot like on 8/17 and 8/31. Your main event shouldn't lose that much so it's getting back to being steady with those three off TV. Cause the pomp and circumstance of their big reunion after 9 months flopped like a fish in the numbers.


Nah, you're wrong once again considering the fact that the highest numbers in Dynamite's short history on TV occurred during Kenny Omega's world title reign last year (along with the Young Bucks having a 20+ minute opener at Fight for the Fallen 2021), which you conveniently like to ignore since it automatically debunks your false narrative.

Plus, the 5+ week streak of Dynamite receiving 1+ million viewers began with the return of CM Punk and the Elite reunion (which received solid numbers for their awesome trios tag matches too btw); so again, you still don't seem to get how ratings fluctuations really work.


----------



## Not Lying

zkorejo said:


> @DammitChrist don't be sad. This is a good sign. With egos as big as these 4 guys, it should be a good slap of reality that AEW can and will do fine without any or all of them. Especially Punk.. "I'm trying to run a business here" fuck off.


Well he’s the only one 😂 but he shouldn’t have said that.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Did aew sell way less tickets for this year's grandslam? I saw a lot of empty seats in the main event and just seen many fans say they sold 7k less tickets this year. Is that true? Did the bad publicity hit them or just the result of a bad product?


----------



## Not Lying

GarpTheFist said:


> Did aew sell way less tickets for this year's grandslam? I saw a lot of empty seats in the main event and just seen many fans say they sold 7k less tickets this year. Is that true? Did the bad publicity hit them or just the result of a bad product?


prices were higher and they’ve been running New York for 3 weeks, last year it was their first show in NY and prices were cheaper


----------



## Not Lying

DammitChrist said:


> HOLY SHIT were the ratings consistent throughout last night.


Oh look. Having a good main event lets people stay. Shocking.


----------



## kingfunkel

Another great number! Despite being a big show, that dropped in viewership from last week. Which may have been an inflated number due to the drama. Currently 1.2m is probably AEW's ceiling, it's faster to burn down a building, than it is to build.

Be interesting to see the quaters. The women's division tends to make or break the viewership. Usually the biggest loser in number. Which isn't great because last year Britt was red hot.

Edit: just seen the quaters. Every quater above a million. Fantastic. Big names in the main event = more people stay throughout. Who would have thought that.


----------



## Teemu™

People heard CM Punk isn't on the show, and are tuning in. Makes perfect sense, honestly.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

One Shed said:


> Imagine still trying to pretend you do not understand how basic nicknames work.


friendly reminder that nickname crew has been voted as the 'geekiest wrestling fans' on this board





https://www.wrestlingforum.com/threads/who-is-more-of-a-geek.2450971/


----------



## Martyn

Another solid number. I guess it’s the first time ever they had so many shows over a million.
Same can be said about the streak of being top 1-2 on cable for like 3 months now. 

They’re going to be moved to tuesday in october, so just like last year, that’s probably when the ratings will go down again. Luckily they’re on TBS now, so it won’t happen as often.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573287549224845315


CMPunkRock316 said:


> Also the Survivor Premiere was last night which draws more than The Mask Singer. I actually watch Survivor too that is why I am mentioning it.


*Survivor hasn't been relevant since the year 2000. Holy shit, the desperation to justify mediocrity is absurd.*


----------



## DammitChrist

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Also the Survivor Premiere was last night which draws more than The Mask Singer. I actually watch Survivor too that is why I am mentioning it.


Yep, that's a perfectly valid explanation/justification that played a part toward this week's number; which still turned out to be very strong anyway, dude 

The product has been pretty darn good for at least several months now too.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573287549224845315
> 
> 
> *Survivor hasn't been relevant since the year 2000. Holy shit, the desperation to justify mediocrity is absurd.*


the insistence of calling 'number one on the night' mediocre is not just absurd, it is so out of touch with reality on such a grand scale, the finger of Shiva must be scratching your balls behind a dimensional elevator by now


----------



## 3venflow

Wrestling wishes it was as irrelevant like Survivor. 0.79 in the 18-49 (#1 on all of TV ahead of Masked Singer and the Chicago shows) and 5m viewers. 

Like pretty much everything on TV, it doesn't rate like it once did, but it's still pretty damn popular in today's climate.










Full Gear pre-sale numbers. I imagine they'll open more seats because they got capacity to 13,000 for Dynamite in the same building in September '21.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573374220154839040


----------



## omaroo

@3venflow whats the total capacity of the Prudential Center ?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

omaroo said:


> @3venflow whats the total capacity of the Prudential Center ?



They supposedly got around 14k in January. Depending on how they set everything up, I'd assume around 16-18k max capacity? Which is probably a bit high since AEW usually doesn't sell out all the hard cam seating.


----------



## GarpTheFist

I was just checking the WrestleTix page and noticed aew isn't selling as well compared to wwe. They aren't even close to selling out in big markets like DC and Philadelphia (while wwe is only around 500 short of selling a number of their upcoming shows/House shows.) DC has two shows coming in October with under 4k seats available and they have both barely sold 2.5k. Looks like Punk did indeed damage aew to a degree and strip them of their good will after all the drama. Funny how flow isn't posting any of the bad numbers aew is doing haha.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

GarpTheFist said:


> I was just checking the WrestleTix page and noticed aew isn't selling as well compared to wwe. They aren't even close to selling out in big markets like DC and Philadelphia (while wwe is only around 500 short of selling a number of their upcoming shows/House shows.) DC has two shows coming in October with under 4k seats available and they have both barely sold 2.5k. Looks like Punk did indeed damage aew to a degree and strip them of their good will after all the drama. Funny how flow isn't posting any of the bad numbers aew is doing haha.


what a weird post after they just sold 12k tickets and sold out Full Gear in basically 2 days


----------



## Teemu™

Nice to see Punk's absence drawing in lapsed fans.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573264801207562242


----------



## Teemu™

5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573264801207562242


Makes sense. Because of her attire, people thought Britt was Cody.


----------



## Goku

Teemu™ said:


> Makes sense. Because of her attire, people thought Britt was Cody.


Hey Teemu, how's it going? How's life?


----------



## Teemu™

Goku said:


> Hey Teemu, how's it going? How's life?


Awful as always. But I mean, pretty good! I fell off my fitness plans for a few days, trying to get back on the wagon lol. Ever been to sub 10% bodyfat? Getting there is one thing, but then you get there, and you just want to eat everything you see. Just today, I was shoving those fucking pastries in my face like CM Punk at the press conference. But this is familiar territory, I always make it back. Thanks for asking!


----------



## Goku

Teemu™ said:


> Awful as always. But I mean, pretty good! I fell off my fitness plans for a few days, trying to get back on the wagon lol. Ever been to sub 10% bodyfat? Getting there is one thing, but then you get there, and you just want to eat everything you see. Just today, I was shoving those fucking pastries in my face like CM Punk at the press conference. But this is familiar territory, I always make it back. Thanks for asking!


I don't know my bodyfat ratio, I used to track it but don't use those metrics anymore. I would estimate I'm at 6-8% most of the year, a bit more during my indulgence months (which just pop up sometime during the year and then I'm done). If you need chiseling advice, I recommend more fruit incorporation. Fruit hydrates you like nothing else and releases all the acidity from your body (adipose). Less meat, more fruit, reduce salt in the food (salt holds onto water in the body, which will make you pudgy), obviously nothing fried. Desserts and sweets are totally fine as long as they're within caloric restraints. Of course, knowing what to do and actually doing it are two different things.

You are welcome. You're a great poster (one of my faves), and I like to know how you're getting about. Take care, my brother.


----------



## Teemu™

Goku said:


> I don't know my bodyfat ratio, I used to track it but don't use those metrics anymore. I would estimate I'm at 6-8% most of the year, a bit more during my indulgence months (which just pop up sometime during the year and then I'm done). If you need chiseling advice, I recommend more fruit incorporation. Fruit hydrates you like nothing else and releases all the acidity from your body (adipose). Less meat, more fruit, reduce salt in the food (salt holds onto water in the body, which will make you pudgy), obviously nothing fried. Desserts and sweets are totally fine as long as they're within caloric restraints. Of course, knowing what to do and actually doing it are two different things.
> 
> You are welcome. You're a great poster (one of my faves), and I like to know how you're getting about. Take care, my brother.


Yea, fitness and nutrition are my field, so I know all this, but the thought counts, thanks!


----------



## Chan Hung

Not Lying said:


> Oh look. Having a good main event lets people stay. Shocking.


Of course. This instead of bland geeks like Yuta or Daniel Garcia will bring in viewership



zkorejo said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/xld98k
> 
> Without CM Punk Or Elite lol.


It dropped though from the previous week. But great way to spin it.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chan Hung said:


> Of course. This instead of bland geeks like Yuta or Daniel Garcia will bring in viewership
> 
> 
> It dropped though from the previous week. But great way to spin it.


Nah, Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta are both *great* talents who deserve to be showcased weekly on TV (as further demonstrated by the fact that 1+ million people tuned in to see the last several minutes of their awesome main event 2 weeks ago), and who will THANKFULLY be around for the next 2 decades too


----------



## IronMan8

Garcia/Yuta was a risky move that gets a tick.

It worked because they invested in youth without losing viewers in the following weeks.

Can't really argue with anything AEW is doing during their highest sustained viewership in history, that's the rule for record-breaking numbers

This is the equivalent of AEW's attitude era and it's all because of Yuta/Garcia kicking it off!


----------



## ElTerrible

IronMan8 said:


> Garcia/Yuta was a risky move that gets a tick.
> 
> It worked because they invested in youth without losing viewers in the following weeks.
> 
> Can't really argue with anything AEW is doing during their highest sustained viewership in history, that's the rule for record-breaking numbers
> 
> This is the equivalent of AEW's attitude era and it's all because of Yuta/Garcia kicking it off!


They are still boring to me, but I have to admit that setting Garcia up to take the world title of honour from Le Champion is by far the best way to get out of this mess. Jericho can mock the concept for a few more weeks before Garcia snaps and challenges him for the title. They can even do a follow up feud between Garcia and the sports entertainer couple GuevTay. In that regard this works out well for all parties. Jericho gets to stroke his ego a bit with another world title, TK gets his big name champion to try and sell ROH, and ultimately it wil elevate Garcia and maybe even Guevara, who has been pretty direction-less himself since his Inner Circle babyface turn.


----------



## 45banshee

Well Damn kudos to Khan. Just when I think after that episode of CM Punk vs John Moxley hit a 1M..I'm thinking the ratings are gonna dip back under 900 thousand or less...but the sonofabitch has hit 7 digits for five straight weeks.

Is their actually putting on a better product that fans want to tune in more? Could it be cause more fans are interested in WWE again with Triple H, therefore it has a ripple effect that fans are checking out AEW more?

Could it be something as crazy as CM Punk and The Young Bucks were turning away viewers, now that their gone for now more people are tuning cause they know know they won't be there?

Who really knows AEW has never done five weeks in a row of 1M viewers. The most they done before this was in their first year they gotten a million 3 weeks straight.

Whatever it is fans are tuning into Dynamite live now more than ever


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574489260010487822


----------



## 3venflow

Nielsen listed Rampage's two hours separately like WWE does with its shows.

Hour one finished 4th on cable, hour two finished 8th on cable. On average it did 522,000 viewers with 0.17 in the key demo. The 10~11pm hour, which is their usual timeslot, was their best performance in that timeslot since April. Hour two was closer to the usual Rampage nowadays but performed well in that timeslot (11pm~12am).

However, last year's Grand Slam Rampage rated higher and Rampage itself was a lot more popular at that point.

After this week in Philly, Rampage will be mostly standalone events in October and November.


----------



## IronMan8

The correct and only answer is MJF.

WWE fans are seeing MJF all over YouTube and think he's coming to WWE. 

Naturally, they want more.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Dynamite hit 1M+ for 7 straight weeks from 8/25/21 through 10/06/21 so you might want to revise your factually incorrect OP, not to mention this is what the Ratings thread is for.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Nielsen listed Rampage's two hours separately like WWE does with its shows.
> 
> Hour one finished 4th on cable, hour two finished 8th on cable. On average it did 522,000 viewers with 0.17 in the key demo. The 10~11pm hour, which is their usual timeslot, was their best performance in that timeslot since April. Hour two was closer to the usual Rampage nowadays but performed well in that timeslot (11pm~12am).
> 
> However, last year's Grand Slam Rampage rated higher and Rampage itself was a lot more popular at that point.
> 
> After this week in Philly, Rampage will be mostly standalone events in October and November.
> 
> View attachment 134365


being 4th at 10 is no mean feat


----------



## TeamFlareZakk

MJF is better than CM Punk!


----------



## Hotdiggity11

TeamFlareZakk said:


> MJF is better than CM Punk!


At this point, that’s a given.


----------



## Victor Chaos

TeamFlareZakk said:


> MJF is better than CM Punk!


MJF is better than everyone on the AEW roster, and we all know it.


----------



## 3venflow

Looks like TNT are airing Rampage and Battle of the Belts IV live back-to-back on 10/7. BotB is usually taped and aired a day later.

Rampage will be 10~11pm and BoTB 11pm~12am.


----------



## Shaz Cena

MJF is overrated I am watching it for Wheeler Yuta.


----------



## Dickhead1990

But I thought the vocal Karendom on here all said that AEW was rubbish and was in decline? Could it be that they are wrong? 

_exasperates and checks notes_

Again!


----------



## La Parka

Dickhead1990 said:


> But I thought the vocal Karendom on here all said that AEW was rubbish and was in decline? Could it be that they are wrong?
> 
> _exasperates and checks notes_
> 
> Again!


I feel like you won't be happy until a thread turns into a bitch fest and if it doesn't you'll get us kick started because you're kinda a drama whore.


----------



## Dickhead1990

La Parka said:


> I feel like you won't be happy until a thread turns into a bitch fest and if it doesn't you'll get us kick started because you're kinda a drama whore.


No, I'm just happy to see a wrestling company succeed against a sea of terminal and tiresome naysayers. Well done to AEW and wrestling in general!


----------



## Joe Gill

This week will be the first without the backstage drama/ punk./ grandslam special....its a normal episode and there isnt much going on right now storyline wise....I would be shocked if it gets over 1 million viewers. Last year AEW peaked at grandslam...it was all downhill after that. Only thing that is going to keep AEW relevant is the upcoming Moxley vs MJF feud....after that there isnt much to look forward to unless Punk returns.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Shaz Cena said:


> MJF is overrated I am watching it for Wheeler Yuta.


This is Luigi Primo erasure and I won't stand for it.


----------



## Ockap

Despite my criticisms of AEW, I hope this keeps up.


----------



## JeSeGaN

And yet ticket sales are major ass.

Huh.


----------



## OmegaPunk34

For a Wrestling company that is not WWE in a Dying Sport one million of viewers is very Good


----------



## Dickhead1990

JeSeGaN said:


> And yet ticket sales are major ass.
> 
> Huh.


Inflation is a definite driver behind that. I'd love to see how WWE are comparing for Raw and Smackdown. Of course, they have the added bonus of getting better recently though.


----------



## Dickhead1990

Well @JeSeGaN, I thought I'd Google it and found this. 









List Of Attendance Figures For This Week’s WWE and AEW TV Events


WrestleTix put together a list of the attendance figures for the WWE and AEW television shows from this week. This week Dynamite topped the list while




www.google.com





Not sure how accurate this is, but there's clearly something here.


----------



## JeSeGaN

Dickhead1990 said:


> Not sure how accurate this is


Looks shoddy as all hell, ngl


----------



## Dickhead1990

JeSeGaN said:


> Looks shoddy as all hell, ngl


It does, but still food for thought nonetheless.


----------



## Top bins

I hope I'm wrong but I can see the number being 910-950 tonight possibly worse.


----------



## Rankles75

Don’t see any reason for it to dip below 1m tbh. Probably something like 1.075m.


----------



## HoneyBee

Top bins said:


> I hope I'm wrong but I can see the number being 910-950 tonight possibly worse.


I'll raise you. It will be slightly over a million.


----------



## Top bins

HoneyBee said:


> I'll raise you. It will be slightly over a million.


I hope your right. I want AEW to grow


----------



## DammitChrist

For the record, I think the ratings might take a dip this week due to Hurricane Ian.

There's at least 2 million people here in Florida who lost power because of the storm as of last night, and the hurricane is still advancing within the southeastern states too.

I guess that we'll find out how many possible viewers in western Florida watch Dynamite momentarily.

If the number ends up being the same at 1+ million viewers, then I guess people in western Florida don't watch wrestling


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

I love the commitment @DammitChrist has to AEW. Dynamite could do 600k viewers and dude would be saying it's a big rating for the show.

Most people just don't have that amount of unabashed love for something.


----------



## omaroo

I see the rating being between 850k-900k partly because of the hurricane but also it was one of the worst dynamites of 2022.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 990,000
18-49: 0.34

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

9/21: 1,039,000 / 0.35
9/14: 1,175,000 / 0.39
9/7: 1,035,000 / 0.38
8/31: 1,020,000 / 0.35
8/24 1,049,000 / 0.34
8/17: 957,000 / 0.30
8/10: 972,000 / 0.33
8/3: 938,000 / 0.32

Dynamite finished #9 on cable which is lower than usual even with a similar average demo, and here is why:


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 990,000
> 18-49: 0.34
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 9/21: 1,039,000 / 0.35
> 9/14: 1,175,000 / 0.39
> 9/7: 1,035,000 / 0.38
> 8/31: 1,020,000 / 0.35
> 8/24 1,049,000 / 0.34
> 8/17: 957,000 / 0.30
> 8/10: 972,000 / 0.33
> 8/3: 938,000 / 0.32


Right within their average range. Nothing wrong with that.

Storm coverage is a draw and understandably so. Not a shock to see it occupy the top spots.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 990,000
> 18-49: 0.34
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 9/21: 1,039,000 / 0.35
> 9/14: 1,175,000 / 0.39
> 9/7: 1,035,000 / 0.38
> 8/31: 1,020,000 / 0.35
> 8/24 1,049,000 / 0.34
> 8/17: 957,000 / 0.30
> 8/10: 972,000 / 0.33
> 8/3: 938,000 / 0.32
> 
> Dynamite finished #9 on cable which is lower than usual even with a similar average demo, and here is why:
> 
> View attachment 134567


ok rating for a tepid show

but 9th is horrible - should send a clear message they should listen to

edit> ok... I guess the hurricane did big numbers


----------



## Dark Emperor

Not bad viewership or rating. Looks like everyone was watching the news. Even younger viewers.


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ok rating for a tepid show
> 
> but 9th is horrible - should send a clear message they should listen to
> 
> edit> ok... I guess the hurricane did big numbers



Putting the belt on Mox again was a misque. The people are over it.


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ok rating for a tepid show
> 
> but 9th is horrible - should send a clear message they should listen to


tbf, only the Hurricane Ian stuff and Tucker Carlson was above it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> Putting the belt on Mox again was a misque. The people are over it.


agreed - no heat to the Mox win this time around

Bryan would've been better

hell, I am rooting for Hangman to take it off him


----------



## DammitChrist

MonkasaurusRex said:


> I love the commitment @DammitChrist has to AEW. Dynamite could do 600k viewers and dude would be saying it's a big rating for the show.
> 
> Most people just don't have that amount of unabashed love for something.


Oh, pardon me for using logic regarding a natural disaster that affected millions of people in my state.


----------



## kingfunkel

Anyone got the quaters? It's high enough to suggest it had a decent number before people gave up on it.
It was an awful show, pretty much constantly bad throughout.


----------



## DammitChrist

For the record, I expected a way bigger dip than that because of the storm; so it's really nice to see them hang in the 990+ K range 

They probably would've maintain the 1+ million streak without the storm too.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Normally I don't buy excuses with other programming most of the time, but hurricane coverage of a catastrophic storm like Ian can fit there.


----------



## Peerless

Isn't a 10k difference the equivalent of 1 person with a Nielson box?

Honestly, that's a decent number given the hurricane coverage and not having viewers from Florida who were busy dealing with the storm. I expected lower.


----------



## D Z

The ratings are down because the worked shoot CM Punk and elite angle buzz coooled off.


----------



## Rankles75

What the fuck is a misque?


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, pardon me for using logic regarding a natural disaster that affected millions of people in my state.


Dude I actually like that you have an unabashed love for AEW. That kind of passion for something is rare we should all be so lucky to love it without cynicism.

It had nothing to do with your comments or level of concern for people affected by the hurricane. Stop thinking everything is a frikkin insult.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

🤭

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575577760894156800


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Good number for what sounded like a lackluster show. Hurricane dominated the night to no one's surprise.


----------



## drougfree

no punk no ratings


----------



## RainmakerV2

Rankles75 said:


> What the fuck is a misque?



Me being a moron, obviously.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Welp, the streak just got Kevin Nash'd. It was a pretty overall weak episode so no surprise.


----------



## CovidFan

Would've gotten well over a milly had the storm not been a thing. Surprising to me. Thought the show started off and stayed quite poor until the main event.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

I had figured about 920k (on the high end). So I was surprised considering Grand Slam is over and the build to the PPV hasn't begun plus the Hurricane is dominating the news.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> agreed - no heat to the Mox win this time around
> 
> Bryan would've been better
> 
> hell, I am rooting for Hangman to take it off him


Because Punk just HAD to get his win back and ruined Mox’s streak of never losing clean. This is why you don’t waste shit like that on guys who don’t need the goddamn rub.

I hope that mf’er never sees a ring ever again. Fucking selfish prick.


----------



## DammitChrist

bdon said:


> Because Punk just HAD to get his win back and ruined Mox’s streak of never losing clean. This is why you don’t waste shit like that on guys who don’t need the goddamn rub.
> 
> I hope that mf’er never sees a ring ever again. Fucking selfish prick.


CM Punk will thankfully be back on Dynamite in 2023, and the product will be even better largely because of him (along with the Elite)


----------



## Saintpat

WBD announces new rights deal with WCCW — Weather Channel Championship Wrestling.

Bucks w/ Kenny Omega vs. Punk/Ace w/ Larry the dog in tornado tag team main event for the pilot episode with special guest referee legal counsel Megha.


----------



## fabi1982

Bbbbbbbbbuuuut the news!!!!!!


----------



## 3venflow

Very strong start to the show for Jericho's thing with 559,000 in the 18-49 and 1.2m total. 16% of the audience went away after that and during the first match (which was a bore to be honest). Possibly some of those had been watching the BBT.

The Moxley/Juice stuff also did well, but hour two fell very heavily in both of the main metrics, specifically QH7. So yeah, the best match of the night rated the worst, while everything else did fairly well to differing degrees. QH3 stands out as an anomaly in losing quite a bit before the next QH regained them. As Thurston said in his stream, ad breaks can hurt ratings a lot.


----------



## Peerless

Moxley’s streak of having his quarters do +1 million continues.


----------



## DammitChrist

There must have been a lot of competition regarding news of the hurricane weather within the last 15 minutes of Dynamite then.

I remember the number from yesterday afternoon went from at least 500 K Floridians losing power to over 2 million Floridians dealing with no power by Wednesday night (which was close to 10 PM too).


----------



## DammitChrist

For the record, those high quarterly numbers for the segments featuring Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta look really promising for both of those men 

Their stock has really elevated by working with Jon Moxley, Bryan Danielson, Chris Jericho, and/or MJF over the last several months since they're getting over with various AEW crowds.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Not good, but we all know that because all the AEW marks ran in here to defend it quickly lmao


----------



## RapShepard

No surprise Jericho vs Brandido tanked


----------



## Itiswhatitis

No shock. Ratings tanked. Had ROH and NJPW geeks that ruined the show.


----------



## DammitChrist

Itiswhatitis said:


> No shock. Ratings tanked. Had ROH and NJPW geeks that ruined the show.


Except for the fact that Juice Robinson was seen by 1+ million viewers (as well as Hiroshi Tanahashi nearly 4 months ago); which debunks your false myth that NJPW wrestlers ‘can’t’ draw whatsoever.


----------



## One Shed

Saintpat said:


> WBD announces new rights deal with WCCW — Weather Channel Championship Wrestling.
> 
> Bucks w/ Kenny Omega vs. Punk/Ace w/ Larry the dog in tornado tag team main event for the pilot episode with special guest referee legal counsel Megha.











Watch Saturday Night Live Highlight: Weather Scope: El Niño - NBC.com


Watch Saturday Night Live highlight 'Weather Scope: El Niño' on NBC.com




www.nbc.com


----------



## Good Bunny

Yo Tony, you still there?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Terrible demo. Woof.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

Showstopper said:


> Terrible demo. Woof.


Doesn't surprise me, Moxley as champion is tiresome, MJF and the devil stuff is disrespectful, no Elite/Punk...Everything in AEW feels meh


----------



## TeamFlareZakk

"AEW Galaxy" 😂😂


----------



## Hotdiggity11

3venflow said:


> Very strong start to the show for Jericho's thing with 559,000 in the 18-49 and 1.2m total. 16% of the audience went away after that and during the first match (which was a bore to be honest). Possibly some of those had been watching the BBT.
> 
> The Moxley/Juice stuff also did well, but hour two fell very heavily in both of the main metrics, specifically QH7. So yeah, the best match of the night rated the worst, while everything else did fairly well to differing degrees. QH3 stands out as an anomaly in losing quite a bit before the next QH regained them. As Thurston said in his stream, ad breaks can hurt ratings a lot.
> 
> View attachment 134571





RapShepard said:


> No surprise Jericho vs Brandido tanked



You mean putting someone in a main event that most people have never heard of and hasn’t been built to be anyone doesn’t draw views? Riveting. 🤣


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Wheeler Useless is so fucking AWFUL that he tanked an MJF segment. Holy shit get this fucker off TV.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575617595046182912*


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> You mean putting someone in a main event that most people have never heard of doesn’t draw views? Riveting. 🤣


It's honestly baffling how a tremendous main event in Chris Jericho vs Bandido is somehow automatically worthless now just because of a random ratings dip 😂

It's not like there was a good portion of western Floridians, and heavy competition regarding news coverage of the hurricane during that time frame or anything.

Gloating over that dip is distasteful, especially when there's plenty of wrestling fans that would love to see Bandido get signed after that outstanding performance last night.


----------



## DammitChrist

Yes, let's use a troll account on Twitter to falsely attack a reasonably popular rising talent in Wheeler Yuta even though at least 1 of his segments drew a strong quarterly rating just last night with over 990+ K viewers at least.

Hopefully, Tony Khan continues to push Wheeler Yuta then since he's a great wrestler who'll continue debunking this misleading theory that he 'kills' the ratings.


----------



## Saintpat

DammitChrist said:


> There must have been a lot of competition regarding news of the hurricane weather within the last 15 minutes of Dynamite then.
> 
> I remember the number from yesterday afternoon went from at least 500 K Floridians losing power to over 2 million Floridians dealing with no power by Wednesday night (which was close to 10 PM too).


If the 2M people without power (or however many during each quarter of primetime, which would presumably grow larger over the course of the evening) is reflected in the lower rating, it’s also reflected in the ratings for The Weather Channel and everything else, right?

I mean people without power weren’t just not watching AEW, they weren’t watching anything.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> It's honestly baffling how a tremendous main event in Chris Jericho vs Bandido is somehow automatically worthless now just because of a random ratings dip 😂
> 
> It's not like there was a good portion of western Floridians, and heavy competition regarding news coverage of the hurricane during that time frame or anything.
> 
> Gloating over that dip is distasteful, especially when there's plenty of wrestling fans that would love to see Bandido get signed after that outstanding performance last night.




Yes, everyone was watching AEW until they randomly turned it over to the Weather Channel at 9:45PM EST. 

A-E-DOUBLEU A-E-DOUBLEU A-E-DOUBLEU!

Sorry, your logic isn’t adding up here.


----------



## DammitChrist

Saintpat said:


> If the 2M people without power (or however many during each quarter of primetime, which would presumably grow larger over the course of the evening) is reflected in the lower rating, it’s also reflected in the ratings for The Weather Channel and everything else, right?
> 
> I mean people without power weren’t just not watching AEW, they weren’t watching anything.


I mean, we're comparing an ordinary wrestling show that airs every week to what'll likely be the worst hurricane to hit western (plus northern) Florida in a century.

I don't think it's an equal comparison. I'm not surprised that the storm had so much attention/coverage on a national scale.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> I mean, we're comparing an ordinary wrestling show that airs every week to what'll likely be the worst hurricane to hit western (plus northern) Florida in a century.
> 
> I don't think it's an equal comparison. I'm not surprised that the storm had so much attention/coverage on a national scale.


So, what does a hurricane everyone already knew about have to do with a two hour show starting with 1.2 million viewers and end at less than 900k, with the final quarter hour bottoming out in the demo with the second lowest overall viewers? Did the hurricane take a break for the first hour and forty-five minutes?


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Yes, everyone was watching AEW until they randomly turned it over to the Weather Channel at 9:45PM EST.
> 
> A-E-DOUBLEU A-E-DOUBLEU A-E-DOUBLEU!
> 
> Sorry, your logic isn’t adding up here.


Hey, if you're unwilling to listen about the logic regarding the heavy competition with the weather channel(s) within the latter half of the 2nd hour, and more central/northern Floridians losing more power during that time frame as the storm advanced to the northeast; then that's on you.

That makes far more sense than using that misleading theory where some hidden gem in Bandido somehow 'tanked' the ratings when Juice Robinson didn't do anything to hurt the viewership (since his match against Jon Moxley received 1+ million viewers); especially when his opponent in Chris Jericho received the highest quarterly overall rating of the night nearly 2 hours beforehand.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

Hotdiggity11 said:


> So, what does a hurricane everyone already knew about have to do with a two hour show starting with 1.2 million viewers and end at less than 900k, with the final quarter hour bottoming out in the demo with the second lowest overall viewers? Did the hurricane take a break for the first hour and forty-five minutes?


Don't bother arguing with that bot


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, if you're unwilling to listen about the logic regarding the heavy competition with the weather channel(s) within the latter half of the 2nd hour, and more central/northern Floridians losing more power during that time frame as the storm advanced to the northeast; then that's on you.
> 
> That makes far more sense than using that misleading theory where some hidden gem in Bandido somehow 'tanked' the ratings when Juice Robinson didn't do anything to hurt the viewership (since his match against Jon Moxley received 1+ million viewers); especially when his opponent in Chris Jericho received the highest quarterly overall rating of the night nearly 2 hours beforehand.




I’m arguing with actual numbers. You are arguing out of emotional impulses because you like some random wrestler. Guess which one is actual empirical evidence? Fact is, the numbers plummeted when Jericho faced some random guy most people have never heard of. Low demo. Low viewership numbers. A hurricane that already existed didn’t cause AEW to lose over 300,000 viewers from start to finish.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> I’m arguing with actual numbers. You are arguing out of emotional impulses because you like some random wrestler. Guess which one is actual empirical evidence? Fact is, the numbers plummeted when Jericho faced some random guy most people have never heard of. Low demo. Low viewership numbers. A hurricane that already existed didn’t cause AEW to lose over 300,000 viewers from start to finish.


Sure, you somehow aren't arguing out of emotional impulses because they decided to introduce a previously 'unknown' talent in Bandido, and expose him to a bigger audience as if that's something to be frowned upon here.

No, you're using that ratings dip as an excuse to ridicule and downplay an impressive outside talent (even though his match with Chris Jericho was one of the biggest highlights on the show quality-wise). You're completely wrong about Bandido (or even Chris Jericho) 'tanking' the ratings; especially when it's an undisputed fact that more viewers continued to lose power in central/northern Florida as the storm progressed northeast into my state, and that's without even mentioning the heavy news coverage that took place within the latter half of the 2nd hour. I'm the one using rational explanations for that ratings dip near the end of the show (which I'm willing even to argue decreased before both of their entrances for the main event).

If what you're saying is true (which is clearly not btw), then the ratings should've decreased during the Juice Robinson match too since he was also unknown to the usual AEW audience for the most part.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> Sure, you somehow aren't arguing out of emotional impulses because they decided to introduce a previously 'unknown' talent in Bandido, and expose him to a bigger audience as if that's something to be frowned upon here.
> 
> No, you're using that ratings dip as an excuse to ridicule and downplay an impressive outside talent (even though his match with Chris Jericho was one of the biggest highlights on the show quality-wise). You're completely wrong about Bandido (or even Chris Jericho) 'tanking' the ratings; especially when it's an undisputed fact that more viewers continued to lose power in central/northern Florida as the storm progressed northeast into my state, and that's without even mentioning the heavy news coverage within the latter half of the 2nd hour. I'm the one using rational explanations for that ratings dip at the end.
> 
> If what you're saying is true (which is clearly not btw), then the ratings should've decreased during the Juice Robinson match too since he was also unknown to the usual AEW audience for the most part.




Nope, my argument isn’t emotional. The numbers speak for themselves. You are the one making excuse after excuse after excuse. 

Florida has less than 5% of the total population of the United States but power going out in parts of the state caused viewership to decline approximately 20% from start to finish. Yeah, that makes sense. Sorry, Florida isn’t the center of the universe. Or even the country.


----------



## DammitChrist

Again, it somehow makes sense to blame the ratings dip on Bandido here even though there's actual proof that an 'unknown' wrestler in Juice Robinson can maintain the viewership (at over 1+ million viewers) against an opponent who's ALSO a big star; but yet it somehow doesn't make sense to accurately point out that the terrible weather in central/northern Florida was hit hard during that time frame, and that there was also the extra competition with the weather program(s) within the last half-hour of the show last night.

How is 1 non-AEW wrestler responsible for 'tanking' the viewership when the other non-AEW talent had no negative effect to the ratings 45 minutes earlier?

*That* doesn't make sense.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Nope, my argument isn’t emotional. The numbers speak for themselves. You are the one making excuse after excuse after excuse.
> 
> Florida has less than 5% of the total population of the United States but power going out in parts of the state caused viewership to decline approximately 20% from start to finish. Yeah, that makes sense. *Sorry, Florida isn’t the center of the universe. Or even the country.*


Okay, sure; the 3rd most populated state in the country somehow has a negligible factor to the overall ratings 

Their 5+ week streak of being above 1+ million views ended this week due to a natural disaster; but hey, let's use a ratings dip as a convenient excuse to blame an unknown wrestler due to your negative emotions toward the guy (even though there was ANOTHER unknown wrestler that had no negative effect to the ratings earlier on the show, and that good match wasn't nearly as great as the main event too).

Anyway, let's also pretend like the storm wasn't still destroying the northeastern parts of my state while the show was close to finishing.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> Again, it somehow makes sense to blame the ratings dip on Bandido here even though there's actual proof that an 'unknown' wrestler in Juice Robinson can maintain the viewership (at over 1+ million viewers) against an opponent who's ALSO a big star; but yet it somehow doesn't make sense to accurately point out that the terrible weather in central/northern Florida was hit hard during that time frame, and that there was also the extra competition with the weather program(s) within the last half-hour of the show last night.
> 
> How is 1 non-AEW wrestler responsible for 'tanking' the viewership when the other non-AEW talent had no negative effect to the ratings 45 minutes earlier?
> 
> *That* doesn't make sense.




Juice Robinson - Moxley had almost 200k less overall viewers and 100k less viewers in the demo than the opening segment which was pretty much just a promo. Danielson-Menard even somehow drew more viewers.


Keep digging. 🤣


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> Okay, sure; the 3rd most populated state in the country somehow has a negligible factor to the overall ratings
> .




21 million people in a nation of approximately 330 million doesn’t cause a show to dip by over 20% dude. Dat dere maff.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Juice Robinson - Moxley had almost 200k less overall viewers and 100k less viewers in the demo than the opening segment which was pretty much just a promo. Danielson-Menard even somehow drew more viewers.
> 
> 
> Keep digging. 🤣


How is Jon Moxley vs Juice Robinson being in the top 3 for both most overall viewers and highest demographic numbers on the show supposed to be something frowned upon here?

They still received a strong number despite some folks not being introduced to Juice before last night.



Hotdiggity11 said:


> 21 million people in a nation of approximately 330 million doesn’t cause a show to dip by over 20% dude. Dat dere maff.


Alright, let's ignore the logical explanations given to you then


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> How is Jon Moxley vs Juice Robinson being in the top 3 for both most overall viewers and highest demographic numbers on the show supposed to be something frowned upon here?
> 
> They still received a strong number despite some folks not being introduced to Juice before last night.
> 
> 
> 
> Alright, let's ignore the logical explanations given to you then




Let me repeat myself:


Danielson and Matt Menard in the middle of the first hour

Got more viewers


Than a match with the top champion in the company near the top of the second hour.


----------



## CM Buck

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Let me repeat myself:
> 
> 
> Danielson and Matt Menard in the middle of the first hour
> 
> Got more viewers
> 
> 
> Than a match with the top champion in the company near the top of the second hour.


To be fair to bandido the ratings being 900 k by the end isn't his fault. It's more a sign that people truly Don't give a fuck about roh as a whole cause of companies like AEW existing.

But I'm glad America didn't disappoint me and overrate last night's show


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Firefromthegods said:


> To be fair to bandido the ratings being 900 k by the end isn't his fault. It's more a sign that people truly Don't give a fuck about roh as a whole cause of companies like AEW existing.
> 
> But I'm glad America didn't disappoint me and overrate last night's show




People not caring about ROH is pretty much in line with what I’ve said for months. If Khan thought putting the belt on Jericho would suddenly lead to increased interest in a dead company or make more people care about the title, he’s probably gonna be disappointed.

I proposed just combining all the titles with the AEW versions and trashing the Pure Title a month or two ago. Instead, they are now regularly on AEW television.


----------



## IronMan8

Come on, it's a bit low to take advantage of the hurricane as an excuse to take random shots at AEW

Poor taste by some in this thread


----------



## CM Buck

Hotdiggity11 said:


> People not caring about ROH is pretty much in line with what I’ve said for months. If Khan thought putting the belt on Jericho would suddenly lead to increased interest in a dead company or make more people care about the title, he’s probably gonna be disappointed.
> 
> I proposed just combining all the titles with the AEW versions and trashing the Pure Title a month or two ago. Instead, they are now regularly on AEW television.


It's like 2022 wwecw


----------



## Saintpat

DammitChrist said:


> I mean, we're comparing an ordinary wrestling show that airs every week to what'll likely be the worst hurricane to hit western (plus northern) Florida in a century.
> 
> I don't think it's an equal comparison. I'm not surprised that the storm had so much attention/coverage on a national scale.


I’m sure a lot of people were watching the hurricane coverage. I’m less sold on the idea that having however-many sets in Florida go black due to power outages affected AEW’s ratings — those people above all others would have been watching weather coverage if they hadn’t already evacuated.

That’s all I was trying to say.


----------



## Dr. Middy

I get what he's trying to do with the ROH titles and guys, but the sooner they can get some sort of TV deal, the better so you can separate them from AEW and streaming everything better. It's pretty clear the audience for the most part outside of the more hardcore fans, don't really pay ROH too much mind now. It's really been the case since The Bucks, Cody, and friends all left.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

Firefromthegods said:


> It's like 2022 wwecw


It's actually worse. WWECW actually had some up and coming stars including a young CM Punk...Elijah Burke was another fantastic talent, John Morrison, Mordecai, Lashley, Angle was on there, etc...Nobody cares about a bunch of no names from ROH I have zero idea who Juce or Bandido are


----------



## zkorejo

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> It's actually worse. WWECW actually had some up and coming stars including a young CM Punk...Elijah Burke was another fantastic talent, John Morrison, Mordecai, Lashley, Angle was on there, etc...Nobody cares about a bunch of no names from ROH I have zero idea who Juce or Bandido are


Juice is a solid upper midcarder in NJPW and Bandido is considered one of the best luchas. If you don't know them, that's on you.

Also, judging from your post, you probably didn't know who CM Punk was because clearly you weren't following ROH then. So when Punk was ECW, you probably called him a geek then anyways.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

zkorejo said:


> Juice is a solid upper midcarder in NJPW and Bandido is considered one of the best luchas. If you don't know them, that's on you.
> 
> Also, judging from your post, you probably didn't know who CM Punk was because clearly you weren't following ROH then. So when Punk was ECW, you probably called him a geek then anyways.


No I didn't, Punk actually came across as a star even in WWECW. 🤡🤡🤡 Even with you explaining who they are, they are still geeks


----------



## DammitChrist

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> No I didn't, Punk actually came across as a star even in WWECW. 🤡🤡🤡 Even with you explaining who they are, they are still geeks


Juice Robinson has decisive wins over Jon Moxley, Kenny Omega, Will Ospreay, and Shingo Takagi though (who are also [former] world champions too).


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

DammitChrist said:


> Juice Robinson has decisive wins over Jon Moxley, Kenny Omega, Will Ospreay, and Shingo Takagi though (who are also [former] world champions too).


Good for that geek 🤡 still have zero idea who he is and quite frankly don't care


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Dr. Middy said:


> I get what he's trying to do with the ROH titles and guys, but the sooner they can get some sort of TV deal, the better so you can separate them from AEW and streaming everything better. It's pretty clear the audience for the most part outside of the more hardcore fans, don't really pay ROH too much mind now. It's really been the case since The Bucks, Cody, and friends all left.



Problem with the TV deal argument is that Tony Khan can’t even get a good time slot for his secondary show (Rampage) and the tv provider that he is working with is currently cost-cutting. There’s not much realistic wiggle room to get a meaningful ROH show on tv.


----------



## CM Buck

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> It's actually worse. WWECW actually had some up and coming stars including a young CM Punk...Elijah Burke was another fantastic talent, John Morrison, Mordecai, Lashley, Angle was on there, etc...Nobody cares about a bunch of no names from ROH I have zero idea who Juce or Bandido are


Bandido is an up and coming star but I take your point


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> Very strong start to the show for Jericho's thing with 559,000 in the 18-49 and 1.2m total. 16% of the audience went away after that and during the first match (which was a bore to be honest). Possibly some of those had been watching the BBT.
> 
> The Moxley/Juice stuff also did well, but hour two fell very heavily in both of the main metrics, specifically QH7. So yeah, the best match of the night rated the worst, while everything else did fairly well to differing degrees. QH3 stands out as an anomaly in losing quite a bit before the next QH regained them. As Thurston said in his stream, ad breaks can hurt ratings a lot.
> 
> View attachment 134571


It always amuses me when I read posts like this. So the first quarter is good because who was on and not because what was on before Dynamite? Even though there is a patern of basically 90% of Dynamites losing after Q1, AEW diehards still dont want to see that?


----------



## kingfunkel

It started hot with a 1.2m viewers. I wouldn't put it down to a single segment, the show was rotten. The quaters are exactly how I thought they'd be, which is annoying because they've had over 1m for consecutive weeks. Then they tank the momentum with this. 

I'm not buying the hurricane as a massive impact on the ratings. The first number suggests, it didn't make much difference... Just down to the card being brutal.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

kingfunkel said:


> It started hot with a 1.2m viewers. I wouldn't put it down to a single segment, the show was rotten. The quaters are exactly how I thought they'd be, which is annoying because they've had over 1m for consecutive weeks. Then they tank the momentum with this.
> 
> I'm not buying the hurricane as a massive impact on the ratings. The first number suggests, it didn't make much difference... Just down to the card being brutal.




Nope, apparently everyone simultaneously jumped over to the Weather Channel at 9:45PM for hurricane news. Otherwise Bandido would have done 1.1 million plus. Like clockwork bro!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> No surprise Jericho vs Brandido tanked


which is a shame, cause it was the best part of the show

which confirms again, ratings does not = good taste


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> Very strong start to the show for Jericho's thing with 559,000 in the 18-49 and 1.2m total. 16% of the audience went away after that and during the first match (which was a bore to be honest). Possibly some of those had been watching the BBT.
> 
> The Moxley/Juice stuff also did well, but hour two fell very heavily in both of the main metrics, specifically QH7. So yeah, the best match of the night rated the worst, while everything else did fairly well to differing degrees. QH3 stands out as an anomaly in losing quite a bit before the next QH regained them. As Thurston said in his stream, ad breaks can hurt ratings a lot.
> 
> View attachment 134571


Bryan Danielson’s ability to quickly lose 200k viewers is impressive and very consistent.

But let’s parrot Cornette and pretend again that it was actually Omega who lost those 200k viewers.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Problem with the TV deal argument is that Tony Khan can’t even get a good time slot for his secondary show (Rampage) and the tv provider that he is working with is currently cost-cutting. There’s not much realistic wiggle room to get a meaningful ROH show on tv.


ROH prior to Tony buying it was shoved onto Sinclair's lesser channels at really late night hours, so they weren't really getting viewership at all given this. With Tony behind them, they could probably get something maybe a little less than Rampage, or something weekly on a streaming service, but I think given AEW fans viewership habits with other wrestling, it should do well enough and get enough engagement. 

The last updates to the Warner/Discovery stuff from what I remember was that they consider AEW to be pretty integral to their programming lineup especially thanks to overall low production costs, so they are fairly safe right now. Warner/Discovery just raved about the House of Dragons partnership too.


----------



## GarpTheFist

bdon said:


> Bryan Danielson’s ability to quickly lose 200k viewers is impressive and very consistent.
> 
> But let’s parrot Cornette and pretend again that it was actually Omega who lost those 200k viewers.



Exactly this! I've been pointing this out for the last few weeks, anyone who still calls bryan a draw holds no credibility. Never was one and never will be one. Not every incredibly over guy is going to move numbers and he is one of them.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Nope, apparently everyone simultaneously jumped over to the Weather Channel at 9:45PM for hurricane news. Otherwise Bandido would have done 1.1 million plus. Like clockwork bro!


I mean, that valid explanation makes far more sense than anything I heard last night


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575902717523861505


----------



## Prosper

Not a bad rating but damn that fall off was huge as the night went on. Of course the news surrounding the hurricane played some kind of part in the decline, people love to watch the live coverage of disaster. But not to the extent of that kind of dropoff. It was just a really weak show with weak matches this week that didn’t keep people engaged. And that’s okay, just book a better show next week.


----------



## Mr316

Raw has to face the NFL every Monday night and they’re still doing very good numbers. Can’t imagine how bad the AEW ratings would be if they went head to head with NFL.


----------



## Prosper

Mr316 said:


> Raw has to face the NFL every Monday night and they’re still doing very good numbers. Can’t imagine how bad the AEW ratings would be if they went head to head with NFL.


So does that make RAW this extraordinary show that can’t be missed? Or is it something else?


----------



## Good Bunny

Word on the street is that Rampage did a ZERO in the 18-34 demo

the fuck


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Prosper said:


> So does that make RAW this extraordinary show that can’t be missed? Or is it something else?



Three full hours of sports entertainment, bro!


----------



## zorori

RapShepard said:


> No surprise Jericho vs Brandido tanked


Unless I am looking at the wrong chart, but why is everyone mentioning a hurricane at 9:45 when the viewership looks to have dropped after 9:30 and never recovered?

No idea about US TV, so did anything of note start at 9:30pm?


----------



## NathanMayberry

zorori said:


> Unless I am looking at the wrong chart, but why is everyone mentioning a hurricane at 9:45 when the viewership looks to have dropped after 9:30 and never recovered?
> 
> No idea about US TV, so did anything of note start at 9:30pm?


I think you’re looking at the wrong chart because viewership dropped at 8:15 and never recovered


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RuthlessAttitude

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Problem with the TV deal argument is that Tony Khan can’t even get a good time slot for his secondary show (Rampage) and the tv provider that he is working with is currently cost-cutting. There’s not much realistic wiggle room to get a meaningful ROH show on tv.


I think the problem is that the networks see more value in long blocks of live content. Take away that factor and you have a subpar scripted show that is spoiled online. Warner did ask if he wanted to make Dynamite a three hour show, but Tony went with an additional tape delay show. Very understandable, yet it left him with a poor timeslot and inability to air it live because the ticket paying audience isn't there . Plus the demo was never going to hold because it's a Friday. 

A third hour of Dynamite would likely be doing 700,000/0.25 at a minimum. Not great, but better than what they get.

Dynamite (TBS - 8pm to 11pm)
Rampage (YouTube - 1 hour) 
ROH Wrestling (YouTube - 1 hour) 

That works better than a clusterfuck of talent and two 'dark match' brands that don't make sense outside of the wrestling bubble.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 472,000
18-49: 0.16

#9 on cable.

We now enter a period of live/standalone Rampages and we'll see how live compares to taped.

*Last two months*

9/23: 522,000 / 0.17 (Grand Slam)
9/16: 470,000 / 0.14
9/9: 429,000 / 0.14
9/2: 485,000 / 0.16
8/26: 431,000 / 0.11
8/19: 461,000 / 0.12
8/12: 528,000 / 0.17
8/5: 468,000 / 0.15



Good Bunny said:


> Word on the street is that Rampage did a ZERO in the 18-34 demo
> 
> the fuck


They did a 0.07 in the 18-34 demo (joint #8 on cable). It was Alfred Konuwa and his 'fast nationals' who posted the 0.00 info.


----------



## Wolf Mark

It's funny how the show TK hyped the most did the worst in a long time. The guy was literally creaming himself, talking about it as a game changer. 

Always stays humble.


----------



## IronMan8

Wolf Mark said:


> It's funny how the show TK hyped the most did the worst in a long time. The guy was literally creaming himself, talking about it as a game changer.
> 
> Always stays humble.


It could've been the greatest show in decades and it's still not going to immediately reflect in that week's rating.


----------



## zorori

RuthlessAttitude said:


> A third hour of Dynamite would likely be doing 700,000/0.25 at a minimum. Not great, but better than what they get.
> 
> Dynamite (TBS - 8pm to 11pm)
> Rampage (YouTube - 1 hour)
> ROH Wrestling (YouTube - 1 hour)
> 
> That works better than a clusterfuck of talent and two 'dark match' brands that don't make sense outside of the wrestling bubble.


+1 on that. I'd have also been up for a 2 hour Dynamite followed by a 1 hour ROH show. You could watch the whole 3 hours, or just record the ROH show to watch later (better than 10pm on Friday!)


----------



## GarpTheFist

@3venflow
I saw your reply in Mr316's numbers thread but I'll reply here since that thread is dead and i dont want to revive it.

Idk which rampage thread you were talking about, Weekly one? In which case i dont check it like many who don't and only come here to find all aew related numbers so i dont get the point of posting bad ticket sales numbers in a thread which barely gets 100 comments for each show.

Unless you were deliberately trying to post the bad numbers in a thread you knew would go undetected by most who frequent this thread?

All I'm saying is, you post the good ticket sales here all the time so you should also use this thread to show us bad ticket sales numbers. Not a weekly rampage thread which many of us don't check.


----------



## 3venflow

GarpTheFist said:


> @3venflow
> I saw your reply in Mr316's numbers thread but I'll reply here since that thread is dead and i dont want to revive it.
> 
> Idk which rampage thread you were talking about, Weekly one? In which case i dont check it like many who don't and only come here to find all aew related numbers so i dont get the point of posting bad ticket sales numbers in a thread which barely gets 100 comments for each show.
> 
> Unless you were deliberately trying to post the bad numbers in a thread you knew would go undetected by most who frequent this thread?
> 
> All I'm saying is, you post the good ticket sales here all the time so you should also use this thread to show us bad ticket sales numbers. Not a weekly rampage thread which many of us don't check.


The only attendance info I've posted in this thread in over a month was the Full Gear pre-sale. I posted the Rampage sales in the Rampage thread because it was relevant to Rampage going live soon and the need to put on stronger cards to sell tickets for certain shows.

I just resubbed to WrestleTix after a month off and can see more numbers now. Here's all the ticket info from the past seven days (sold/current capacity):

September 28 (Dynamite) - 5,124/6,147 (final number)
October 5 (Dynamite) - 2,819/3,287
October 12 (Dynamite) - 6,802/6,815
October 13 (Rampage) - 4,885/6,014
October 18 (Dynamite) - 3,335/5,145
October 21 (Rampage) - 2,325/3,723
October 26 (Dynamite) - 2,217/3,618 ($144,767 estimated gate)
October 28 (Rampage) - 3,768/5,003
November 2 (Dynamite) - 1,604/2,337
November 4 (Rampage) - 1,218/4,731
November 9 (Dynamite) - 2,322/2,919
November 19 (PPV) - 9,939/11,953
November 23 (Dynamite/Rampage) - 3,964/6,076
January 4 (Dynamite) - 6,224/7,968


----------



## Aedubya

Going well


----------



## 3venflow

Last night's show finished at 3,043 sold per WrestleTix, selling a couple hundred more tickets on the day. It was the third show they've run in that building this year, with the first (Dynamite) doing a reported 3,595 and the second (Rampage) doing 2,819. And they're running the same building again, their fourth of the year, on Friday for Rampage + BOTB4, so this is the very definition of squeezing a territory. That show had moved 2,265 tickets as of over a week ago (waiting for new updates).

It was well below the average of Dynamite on the road (5,863) since touring resumed. Next week in Canada is for all intents and purposes sold out and will be above that average with 6,800+ tickets sold.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Raw did a .40 and with the show being an anniversary show with almost all the big names, MJF, Darby, Mox, Hangman, Danielson, Baker, Saraya, etc, maybe there's an outside shot at a W?


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> Raw did a .40 and with the show being an anniversary show with almost all the big names, MJF, Darby, Mox, Hangman, Danielson, Baker, Saraya, etc, maybe there's an outside shot at a W?


I think at most they match it.


----------



## 3venflow

They haven't hit 0.40 since June, even with Grand Slam happening, so I'd be very surprised. This week or next might be their last chance for a while with NBA about to start up again.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 1,038,000
18-49: 0.33

#2 on cable.

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

9/28: 990,000 / 0.34
9/21: 1,039,000 / 0.35
9/14: 1,175,000 / 0.39
9/7: 1,035,000 / 0.38
8/31: 1,020,000 / 0.35
8/24 1,049,000 / 0.34
8/17: 957,000 / 0.30
8/10: 972,000 / 0.33


----------



## Prosper

Damn demo is not close to RAW's but back over a milli. #2 on cable is good too. Solid rating.

I thought the show was pretty good last night despite the lack of storylines right now.


----------



## Joe Gill

No Punk, no Omega, no Bucks, no major storylines, no reason to tune in....yet they still manage a million viewers. Impressive


----------



## RapShepard

Good shit


----------



## HoneyBee

They're growing


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bad demo for a good show

that’s how it goes sometimes


----------



## Wigglypuff

HoneyBee said:


> They're growing


By what metric?









AEW Dynamite back over one million viewers, 18-49 demo rating down


Dynamite averaged 1.038 million viewers for its third-anniversary episode.




www.f4wonline.com





_As compared to the same week in 2021, Dynamite was down 1.4 percent in overall viewers and down 10.8% in 18-49. While it's the 13th straight week of year-over-year declines for Dynamite in the key demo, these numbers held up better than most episodes of late.

_


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Its honestly insane how many threads are stickied in this section. Obvioulsy ratings should be stickied, but most our pointless


----------



## DammitChrist

Kudos to them for going back to 1+ million viewers overall; which is always a really satisfying number.

They would've kept their 5+ week streak if it weren't for Hurricane Ian destroying the western and (north)central parts of my state.


----------



## 3venflow

QHs. The extra 15 minutes took away rather than added to the average. It could be that a lot of people didn't set their DVRs for the +15 minutes (same day DVRs are counted in the ratings) as even people in the live thread didn't realise they had extra time. MJF vs. Yuta did very well to sustain the start-up audience though. The Acclaimed were the only QH to increase in the 18-49 rather than lose. They seem popular with that audience.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578115170748039183*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578141687888883712


----------



## Hotdiggity11

HoneyBee said:


> They're growing



Down in overall viewers and demo from last year is growth?




3venflow said:


> QHs. The extra 15 minutes took away rather than added to the average. It could be that a lot of people didn't set their DVRs for the +15 minutes (same day DVRs are counted in the ratings) as even people in the live thread didn't realise they had extra time. MJF vs. Yuta did very well to sustain the start-up audience though. The Acclaimed were the only QH to increase in the 18-49 rather than lose. They seem popular with that audience.
> 
> View attachment 135180



A consistent decline in viewers throughout the show. Yikes.


----------



## BettsyUK

3venflow said:


> QHs. The extra 15 minutes took away rather than added to the average. It could be that a lot of people didn't set their DVRs for the +15 minutes (same day DVRs are counted in the ratings) as even people in the live thread didn't realise they had extra time. MJF vs. Yuta did very well to sustain the start-up audience though. The Acclaimed were the only QH to increase in the 18-49 rather than lose. They seem popular with that audience.
> 
> View attachment 135180


Basically the first hour was about 1.1mil average. Alot of positives to take from that, just shows the company doesn't need the elite nor punk as much as some would have us believe.

Heck, the Acclaimed have completely outsold them both on merch this year.


----------



## THANOS

Danielson just doesn't matter anymore. Tony's jobbed him out in big matches and he feels like the least important member of his own stable.

This is the same guy that was gaining more viewers than HHH, Lesnar, Taker, Cena, Orton, Reigns and more in the 6 months leading to WM30. The proof was in the quarter hour breakdowns for RAW and Smackdown at that time.

Now his star power is virtually rung dry, and his presence is gone.

Booking malpractice. That's what this is. 

A lot of blame falls on Bryan, because all he cares to do is wrestle. 

But still, if the creative team is literally just Tony, then Tony should be booking angles to make Danielson fun and interesting outside of his matches.

Danielson's Anger Management segments in WWE were super entertaining, and his Vegan Heel run was incredible as well.

Give him something to sink his teeth into and he'll soar like a phoenix.


----------



## Seafort

THANOS said:


> Danielson just doesn't matter anymore. Tony's jobbed him out in big matches and he feels like the least important member of his own stable.
> 
> This is the same guy that was gaining more viewers than HHH, Lesnar, Taker, Cena, Orton, Reigns and more in the 6 months leading to WM30. The proof was in the quarter hour breakdowns for RAW and Smackdown at that time.
> 
> Now his star power is virtually rung dry, and his presence is gone.
> 
> Booking malpractice. That's what this is.
> 
> A lot of blame falls on Bryan, because all he cares to do is wrestle.
> 
> But still, if the creative team is literally just Tony, then Tony should be booking angles to make Danielson fun and interesting outside of his matches.
> 
> Danielson's Anger Management segments in WWE were super entertaining, and his Vegan Heel run was incredible as well.
> 
> Give him something to sink his teeth into and he'll soar like a phoenix.


I love his vegan heel run. I would have taken it so much further. Live interview at the Bryan compound, speaking to Bryan in his tree house while a miserable Brie shivers in the background. Refusing to wrestle unless the audience pledges to be carbon negative. Refusing to wrestle because he spotted someone eating a hot dog. Coming to the ring at WrestleMania in a 1968 hippie bus, perhaps with the Captain Planet theme playing.

And then reveal it is all a cynical ploy when an video surfaced of Bryan driving a Hummer while eating a massive cheeseburger.


----------



## DammitChrist

THANOS said:


> Danielson just doesn't matter anymore. Tony's jobbed him out in big matches and he feels like the least important member of his own stable.
> 
> This is the same guy that was gaining more viewers than HHH, Lesnar, Taker, Cena, Orton, Reigns and more in the 6 months leading to WM30. The proof was in the quarter hour breakdowns for RAW and Smackdown at that time.
> 
> Now his star power is virtually rung dry, and his presence is gone.
> 
> Booking malpractice. That's what this is.
> 
> A lot of blame falls on Bryan, because all he cares to do is wrestle.
> 
> But still, if the creative team is literally just Tony, then Tony should be booking angles to make Danielson fun and interesting outside of his matches.
> 
> Danielson's Anger Management segments in WWE were super entertaining, and his Vegan Heel run was incredible as well.
> 
> Give him something to sink his teeth into and he'll soar like a phoenix.


Except for the fact that Bryan Danielson does matter, and that there's still plenty of drawing power left in him.


----------



## Joe Gill

TK should thank the big bang theory...great lead in programming...but most weeks the numbers start to drop off into the 800k range by end of show...thats a real bad sign that the company doesnt have much of a main even scene right now for casuals to stick around. TK needs to stop with all this yuta and garcia nonsense.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Whoa they went up? Must be the anniversary hook. The show was good so they might retain the same number next week as well or gain bit more

Edit: just saw the QHs and they lost 300k again. That's a bad sign, it shows the people do not care about the main event to stick around.


----------



## THANOS

DammitChrist said:


> Except for the fact that Bryan Danielson does matter, and that there's still plenty of drawing power left in him.


There's definitely some. Bryan's been stamped out before in WWE in 18 seconds actually, and then rose like a phoenix and drew a ton of viewers.

The difference here, is he's not doing anything interesting while jobbing. He's just kind of there...

I blame Tony and Bryan himself for that. Mostly Tony though, because he insists on being the only booker & writer.



Seafort said:


> I love his vegan heel run. I would have taken it so much further. Live interview at the Bryan compound, speaking to Bryan in his tree house while a miserable Brie shivers in the background. Refusing to wrestle unless the audience pledges to be carbon negative. Refusing to wrestle because he spotted someone eating a hot dog. Coming to the ring at WrestleMania in a 1968 hippie bus, perhaps with the Captain Planet theme playing.
> 
> And then reveal it is all a cynical ploy when an video surfaced of Bryan driving a Hummer while eating a massive cheeseburger.


Lmao 🤣 amazing!


----------



## NathanMayberry

Tiny’s gonna secure that bag. 

Warner media would be pretty dumb to let go of AEW. They’ve shown they can survive on prime time. They’ve done better in the season return than raw has but Monday night football has been crazy. 

Three years in their viewership is delivering for Warner. Attendance is another story as is the shit happening backstage. But that’s for another day. 

They’re getting extended by Warner


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hell No

THANOS said:


> Danielson just doesn't matter anymore. Tony's jobbed him out in big matches and he feels like the least important member of his own stable.
> 
> This is the same guy that was gaining more viewers than HHH, Lesnar, Taker, Cena, Orton, Reigns and more in the 6 months leading to WM30. The proof was in the quarter hour breakdowns for RAW and Smackdown at that time.
> 
> Now his star power is virtually rung dry, and his presence is gone.
> 
> Booking malpractice. That's what this is.
> 
> A lot of blame falls on Bryan, because all he cares to do is wrestle.
> 
> But still, if the creative team is literally just Tony, then Tony should be booking angles to make Danielson fun and interesting outside of his matches.
> 
> Danielson's Anger Management segments in WWE were super entertaining, and his Vegan Heel run was incredible as well.
> 
> Give him something to sink his teeth into and he'll soar like a phoenix.


I haven't watched since Bryan lost to Moxley. Bryan is just another guy on the roster and I have zero interest in what he is doing and I am a huge Bryan fan.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW's top merchandise sellers per Brandon Thurston. What stood out to me is Shida is the top female performer despite being sidelined for most of the year.

Also, look at Danhausen's performance and that's where cult/camp characters like this bring value.


----------



## kingfunkel

Am I reading the merch table wrong... Punk sells more merch in a month than Page/Omega? 
Not surprised to see the Acclaimed that high, mega over and hot. Crazy it all started with Danhausen calling the Gunn clubs ass boys and it just rubbed all over the Acclaimed.


----------



## HoneyBee

NathanMayberry said:


> Tiny’s gonna secure that bag.
> 
> Warner media would be pretty dumb to let go of AEW. They’ve shown they can survive on prime time. They’ve done better in the season return than raw has but Monday night football has been crazy.
> 
> Three years in their viewership is delivering for Warner. Attendance is another story as is the shit happening backstage. But that’s for another day.
> 
> They’re getting extended by Warner
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well I'll be.. you are speaking positive of AEW. I agree but I hope the backstage drama doesn't make them want to distance themselves. Hopefully not, as it's hardly racism, homophobia or sexism is it now.


----------



## La Parka

Good to see em at a million again.

Toronto show should do similar numbers.


----------



## Not Lying

3venflow said:


> AEW's top merchandise sellers per Brandon Thurston. What stood out to me is Shida is the top female performer despite being sidelined for most of the year.
> 
> Also, look at Danhausen's performance and that's where cult/camp characters like this bring value.
> 
> View attachment 135212


i’ve seen it saying it for a while. Shida is an asset and a draw for women. She was recently (well last time she appeared) in a segment which increased viewers and her title matches back in 2020 also used to do well.


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> QHs. The extra 15 minutes took away rather than added to the average. It could be that a lot of people didn't set their DVRs for the +15 minutes (same day DVRs are counted in the ratings) as even people in the live thread didn't realise they had extra time. MJF vs. Yuta did very well to sustain the start-up audience though. The Acclaimed were the only QH to increase in the 18-49 rather than lose. They seem popular with that audience.
> 
> View attachment 135180


But I was told by Bryan Danielson fans that the 2nd quarter hour is destined to lose ratings. You know, because he often loses 200k viewers in that same time slot.


----------



## RapShepard




----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


>


so, will be flat week on week - cause you always add a 100k or so, right?


----------



## 3venflow

The fast nationals are unpredictable. Sometimes they are similar to the finals, sometimes they are a way off. Konuwa, a notorious grifter and bad faith actor (Andrew Zarian also received the fast nationals from WWE, which are sent for propaganda purposes, but had the common sense to realise they were being used in bad faith and stopped), is the one who said they did a 0.00 in the 18-34 and 0.10 in the 18-49 last week, when they did a 0.07 in the 18-34 and 0.16 in the 18-49. He also compares fast nationals to last week/year's finals (although they will be well down on last year as Rampage was still a new show with some buzz doing great numbers for its timeslot).

Wouldn't surprise me if Rampage did rate low, as it wasn't exactly an enticing card and the one match with most intrigue, Andrade vs. 10 (career vs. mask), was cancelled. I did think the live factor could help, but maybe the taped vs. live effect isn't that big when there aren't major matches. If it does stay in the fast nationals territory, that'll be their lowest since late July and a very sharp drop from last week.


----------



## IronMan8

RapShepard said:


>


Man, that tweet is dripping in disingenuousness. Terrible "reporting". 

WrestlingInc has really gone downhill since the buyout.


----------



## 3venflow

Full Gear passed the 10,000 tickets sold mark. The thing that is holding this from being a full sell-out is AEW's insistence, like with All Out, on pushing combo tickets to try and get people in for the Rampage on Friday. It'll get there in the end and they should be able to open more seats based on past events there.

It has sold more tickets than All Out now, so assuming the average price is the same, this will be another $1m gate for AEW and their fifth of 2022 (after zero in 2019, 2020 and 2021... Grand Slam 2021 reached around $960k apparently).

Per WrestleTix:

*AEW Presents Full Gear
Sat • Nov 19 • 7:00 PM
Prudential Center, Newark, NJ*

Available Tickets => 934
Available Combo Tickets => 939
Current Setup/Capacity => 11,953
Tickets Distributed => 10,080

Canada updates:

*AEW Presents "Dynamite"
Wed • Oct 12 • 7:00 PM
Coca-Cola Coliseum, Toronto, ON*

Available Tickets => 27
Current Setup/Capacity => 7,070
Tickets Distributed => 7,043

*AEW Presents "RAMPAGE"
Thu • Oct 13 • 7:00 PM
Coca-Cola Coliseum, Toronto, ON*

Available Tickets => 1,115
Current Setup/Capacity => 6,014
Tickets Distributed => 4,899

Next week's Dynamite has been slowly picking up but is still a long way off a sell out despite a big main event.

*AEW Presents: Dynamite
Tue • Oct 18 • 7:00 PM
Heritage Bank Center, Cincinnati, OH*

Available Tickets => 1,510
Current Setup/Capacity => 5,145
Tickets Distributed => 3,635

Rampage still has nothing announced so they'll push for a walk-up after revealing matches on Dynamite I imagine.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 404,000
18-49: 0.13

#20 on cable

In terms of total viewers, this was Rampage's lowest since 29 July. As for the key demo, the lowest since 26 August.

*Last two months*

9/30: 472,000 / 0.16
9/23: 522,000 / 0.17 (Grand Slam)
9/16: 470,000 / 0.14
9/9: 429,000 / 0.14
9/2: 485,000 / 0.16
8/26: 431,000 / 0.11
8/19: 461,000 / 0.12
8/12: 528,000 / 0.17

*AEW Battle of the Belts IV*

Viewers: 317,000
18-49: 0.10

#37 on cable. Down in both metrics on the previous, although this aired at 11pm~midnight while the others aired on Saturday nights in primetime spots (8/7c).

*Previous BotB*

III (8/6): 437,000 / 0.12 (#12 on cable)
II (4/16): 527,000 / 0.18 (#10 on cable)
I (1/8): 704,000 / 0.27 (#11 on cable)

This was the last of these TNT quarterlies and we now see if they continue next year. If so, I hope they drop the Battle of the Belts concept and do something different.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579567336650321922


----------



## Saintpat

Was Rampage live or taped last week? I honestly can’t remember.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Saintpat said:


> Was Rampage live or taped last week? I honestly can’t remember.


Live


----------



## Saintpat

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Live


Thanks. BotB was taped IIRC and not just a second hour of live Rampage, right?


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Saintpat said:


> Thanks. BotB was taped IIRC and not just a second hour of live Rampage, right?


BOTB was also Live


----------



## 3venflow

NBA starts next week so I'd expect Dynamite to start taking a hit, like RAW has from MNF.

Live sport is starting to dominate the cable rankings again.


----------



## Not Lying

3venflow said:


> NBA starts next week so I'd expect Dynamite to start taking a hit, like RAW has from MNF.
> 
> Live sport is starting to dominate the cable rankings again.
> 
> View attachment 135601


Incoming the end is near posts


----------



## One Shed

Hopefully they never have another special on a Friday night, and have less specials in general.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Why on earth do they treat BOTB like a D show instead of a special? Has a world title ever been defended on it? I can't recall one, it's such an open goal to book this special yet they can't even dot that. I can't imagine the network would be happy with the numbers or maybe they dont care either or it'd be given a better timeslot. 

Also @3venflow is right, just scrap this concept and come up with a standard special name and treat like a PPV in between the 4 regular PPVs. That would solve the problem of prolonging feuds way past their expiration date which would greatly improve weekly tv.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Ouch.


----------



## Aedubya

-----Anything above 0.80 is ok, Anything above 0.85 is good, anything above 0.9 is v good , anything above 0.95 is brilliant , anything above 1.0 is outstanding-----

OUTSTANDING


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Khan really needs to get out of the death slot for his secondary show. AEW largely tries to appeal to a demographic that is the least likely to be at home in front of a tv at 10pm EST on a Friday.


----------



## 3venflow

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Khan really needs to get out of the death slot for his secondary show. AEW largely tries to appeal to a demographic that is the least likely to be at home in front of a tv at 10pm EST on a Friday.


If Warner offered AEW a two-hour show in a better timeslot/day tomorrow, I'd shelve the Rampage brand if I was Tony Khan. It's an earner ('an eight-figure payday') but a stagnant brand having been mostly taped and in the Friday night death slot for most of its run.

If AEW ever decides to make a second show as important as Dynamite, I'd go with a whole new concept just because 'Rampage' comes the stigma of being not a B show, but a C show. When WWF expanded, they didn't turn use the existing Heat brand, they created Smackdown instead. Likewise WCW with Thunder instead of Saturday Night/Worldwide.

I honestly think with all the injuries and suspensions, AEW would struggle with a second major program compared to earlier this year, particularly if it went two hours. You need a strong upper deck when you expand and they don't have Punk or Omega (two of their top five singles stars) right now, plus a bunch of second/third tier guys are suspended/injured/on leave (Cole, Malakai, Christian, Andrade).

Staying one hour but in a better timeslot (Tuesday or Saturday 8/7c?) would probably work best right now.


----------



## CM Dunk05

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Khan really needs to get out of the death slot for his secondary show. AEW largely tries to appeal to a demographic that is the least likely to be at home in front of a tv at 10pm EST on a Friday.


Wasn’t aware there was a rule in America whereby males had to be away from their mothers basement between the hours of 10.00 - 11 EST on a Friday. Learn something new everyday


----------



## IronMan8

CM Dunk05 said:


> Wasn’t aware there was a rule in America whereby males had to be away from their mothers basement between the hours of 10.00 - 11 EST on a Friday. Learn something new everyday


Actually those ratings would count in the >49yo female demographic, which is where WWE dominates 

Is demo ratio a thing? AEW's ratio is great for independent young males.


----------



## IronMan8

45% of Dynamite viewers are in the demo
35% of Raw viewers are in the demo
31% of Smackdown viewers are in the demo

Therefore, without a shadow of a doubt, WWE viewers are older and/or more likely to live in someone's basement


----------



## Jones1

IronMan8 said:


> 45% of Dynamite viewers are in the demo
> 35% of Raw viewers are in the demo
> 31% of Smackdown viewers are in the demo
> 
> Therefore, without a shadow of a doubt, WWE viewers are older and/or more likely to live in someone's basement


Interesting that AEW has a younger audience. I guess it shouldn't surprise me with the content AEW put out.


----------



## bdon

Anyone going to complain and try to pretend that Bryan Danielson didn’t just have the largest drop in numbers? You mf’ers want to always lie and claim that Kenny Omega lost 200k viewers, yet you’re constantly hush about Bryan.

Dude is in the largest drop in ratings way too often.


----------



## Jaxon

at what point do they give up with Rampage


----------



## Geeee

What I personally would do with Rampage is use it as a "throw shit at the wall and see what sticks" kind of show. Like if someone is showing promise on YouTube give them a shot at a big match, or if someone who doesn't usually cut promos has an idea for a promo, give them a chance. If someone has an idea for a storyline that is a little weird, give a test go on Rampage etc. No one is watching Rampage anyway and you might find something that works for Dynamite.

Another thing you could try is making it a one match show. It's only an hour long, maybe you could build up to like one epic main event like Wardlow vs Samoa Joe TV title vs TV title with full entrances and stuff and then a 30+ minute banger.


----------



## midgetlover69

bdon said:


> Anyone going to complain and try to pretend that Bryan Danielson didn’t just have the largest drop in numbers? You mf’ers want to always lie and claim that Kenny Omega lost 200k viewers, yet you’re constantly hush about Bryan.
> 
> Dude is in the largest drop in ratings way too often.


it should come as no surprise since bryan sabotaged any bit of star power he had. He is just another guy at this point. It happens when you job to daniel garcia of all people

I remember a lot of people called it when it happened


----------



## bdon

midgetlover69 said:


> it should come as no surprise since bryan sabotaged any bit of star power he had. He is just another guy at this point. It happens when you job to daniel garcia of all people
> 
> I remember a lot of people called it when it happened


Cornette, @One Shed , the PWI fuck that was quoted here, and so many keep harping on that Omega lost 200k viewers the night of his return. It was Bryan Danielson who lost 200k viewers.

I demand this be discussed. Almighty Bryan, psychology and grown up wrestling, man’s man, losing viewers. Why is that? He’s been losing viewers for a long while at that, but not a single one of those mf’ers dare point it out.


----------



## Wolf Mark

3venflow said:


> AEW's top merchandise sellers per Brandon Thurston. What stood out to me is Shida is the top female performer despite being sidelined for most of the year.
> 
> Also, look at Danhausen's performance and that's where cult/camp characters like this bring value.
> 
> View attachment 135212


Blackpool Combat Club? Interesting.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Per Dave Meltzer on Wrestling Observer Radio, the bout(On Battle of the Belts IV)was the lowest rated AEW TV match ever. Meltzer noted:


> “Boy did that match not draw, that (Gates of Agony vs) FTR match. It was the lowest rated match in the history of AEW television.”


----------



## bdon

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Per Dave Meltzer on Wrestling Observer Radio, the bout(On Battle of the Belts IV)was the lowest rated AEW TV match ever. Meltzer noted:


I thought they are supposed to be a big deal.

“THEY LOST 200k VIEWERS!!” 🙄


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> Cornette, @One Shed , the PWI fuck that was quoted here, and so many keep harping on that Omega lost 200k viewers the night of his return. It was Bryan Danielson who lost 200k viewers.
> 
> I demand this be discussed. Almighty Bryan, psychology and grown up wrestling, man’s man, losing viewers. Why is that? He’s been losing viewers for a long while at that, but not a single one of those mf’ers dare point it out.


Where did Bryan lose 200K? It was a 65K drop for 10-10:15pm


----------



## bdon

Not Lying said:


> Where did Bryan lose 200K? It was a 65K drop for 10-10:15pm


The night that Kenny returned. Everyone screamed that Kenny lost 200k viewers. The first 15-minute quarter gained a 100k viewers. By the second quarter hour, Andrade and two guys who had a total of 4 episodes of Dynamite TV under their belt helped them lose 90k viewers. So a net gain of 10k viewers from the segment prior to his.

Cornette started screaming that Kenny lost 200k viewers, and so many parroted that. It was not true at all. Bryan lost 200k viewers that night in quarter hour #2. Bryan has lost 200k viewers a couple of times since then as well.


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> Cornette, @One Shed , the PWI fuck that was quoted here, and so many keep harping on that Omega lost 200k viewers the night of his return. It was Bryan Danielson who lost 200k viewers.
> 
> I demand this be discussed. Almighty Bryan, psychology and grown up wrestling, man’s man, losing viewers. Why is that? He’s been losing viewers for a long while at that, but not a single one of those mf’ers dare point it out.


It took Bryan years of putting over jobbers to get down to omegas level.

Lmao


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> It took Bryan years of putting over jobbers to get down to omegas level.
> 
> Lmao


It isn’t Omega’s level. Omega didn’t lose 200k viewers. Bryan did.

Try keeping up, Jim.


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> It isn’t Omega’s level. Omega didn’t lose 200k viewers. Bryan did.
> 
> Try keeping up, Jim.











AEW Dynamite suffers ratings dip despite Kenny Omega's long-awaited return


AEW Dynamite's ratings have been released, reflecting a drop in average viewership and the key 18-49 demo.




www.sportskeeda.com





Imagine still thinking omega is a draw.

Couldn’t be me. Excited to see AEW get another million this week while Omega is off the card!


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> AEW Dynamite suffers ratings dip despite Kenny Omega's long-awaited return
> 
> 
> AEW Dynamite's ratings have been released, reflecting a drop in average viewership and the key 18-49 demo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sportskeeda.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine still thinking omega is a draw.
> 
> Couldn’t be me. Excited to see AEW get another million this week while Omega is off the card!


I’m pretty sure that Kenny Omega has headlined MULTIPLE NJPW events that had even higher crowd attendances than AEW’s biggest events just a few years ago.

Hell, he’s a BIG reason why the NJPW show at Madison Square Garden in early 2019 sold out since numerous wrestling fans thought he was going to face Kazuchika Okada.

He also helped lure in a good portion of the NJPW/ROH audience into watching AEW on a weekly basis.

Two of AEW’s most successful events in its short history had Kenny Omega headlining in big matches; which were against Bryan Danielson at Dynamite - Grand Slam 2021, and against Christian Cage at All Out 2021.

Imagine still pretending that Omega is an ‘anti-draw’ despite all of these facts.

Edit:

For the record, the same goes to those who want to keep downplaying Bryan Danielson’s obvious drawing power.


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> AEW Dynamite suffers ratings dip despite Kenny Omega's long-awaited return
> 
> 
> AEW Dynamite's ratings have been released, reflecting a drop in average viewership and the key 18-49 demo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sportskeeda.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine still thinking omega is a draw.
> 
> Couldn’t be me. Excited to see AEW get another million this week while Omega is off the card!


Every bit the draw of anyone not named Jon Moxley. The almighty Punk at the front and center of Dynamite with a hot feud against fellow ratings draw, MJF, had the shows _a whopping 18k more weekly viewers. _

These are facts.

Also facts are that not a single person you think is a draw has had anyone bet a $100m on their ability to draw. Kenny, Cody, and the Bucks did that.

Facts.


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> AEW Dynamite suffers ratings dip despite Kenny Omega's long-awaited return
> 
> 
> AEW Dynamite's ratings have been released, reflecting a drop in average viewership and the key 18-49 demo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sportskeeda.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine still thinking omega is a draw.
> 
> Couldn’t be me. Excited to see AEW get another million this week while Omega is off the card!


Kenny had a 10k viewer net gain in the final quarter hour against Andrade who no one cares about and 2 guys with a total exposure to Dynamite of 4 episodes.

Bryan lost 200k viewers that night.

Keep making up lies, Jim.


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> Every bit the draw of anyone not named Jon Moxley. The almighty Punk at the front and center of Dynamite with a hot feud against fellow ratings draw, MJF, had the shows _a whopping 18k more weekly viewers. _
> 
> These are facts.
> 
> Also facts are that not a single person you think is a draw has had anyone bet a $100m on their ability to draw. Kenny, Cody, and the Bucks did that.
> 
> Facts.


Nobody bet a million on Kenny.

TK knew there was an appetite for wrestling not named WWE and he was right. AEW had buzz before Kenny even signed and will have it long after he goes back to Japan or jobs in wwe. 

AEW is bigger than ever and the reality is, omega is further from the product then ever before. AEW has past omega and the young bucks by.


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> Kenny had a 10k viewer net gain in the final quarter hour against Andrade who no one cares about and 2 guys with a total exposure to Dynamite of 4 episodes.
> 
> Bryan lost 200k viewers that night.
> 
> Keep making up lies, Jim.


10k viewers for a return hahaha. Pathetic! The good brothers did a million YouTube views in wwe


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> Nobody bet a million on Kenny.
> 
> TK knew there was an appetite for wrestling not named WWE and he was right. AEW had buzz before Kenny even signed and will have it long after he goes back to Japan or jobs in wwe.
> 
> AEW is bigger than ever and the reality is, omega is further from the product then ever before. AEW has past omega and the young bucks by.


Name your all-time favorites. Name those that you believe to be a big time draw…

I’ll be waiting to see your list of names that had a $100m bet on them.


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> 10k viewers for a return hahaha. Pathetic! The good brothers did a million YouTube views in wwe


100k viewers gained in the first quarter. Saw it. Got tired of Andrade and two guys who were not part of the Dynamite rotation and checked out.

6-man matches have proven to not hold audiences’ attention. Even Punk/Stung/Darby lost a massive amount of viewers over two quarter hours, and that wasn’t a heatless match like Kenny with Andrade’s 6 man. The Punk/Sting/Darby match was part of the hottest feud in the company with MJF and FTR.

But you keep skirting around Bryan losing 200k viewers on multiple occasions, so I am now going to give you the last word as it is clear to anyone paying attention that you don’t want to have a discussion about facts.


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> Name your all-time favorites. Name those that you believe to be a big time draw…
> 
> I’ll be waiting to see your list of names that had a $100m bet on them.


I'm not sure how a list would be relevant considering we are talking about Omega, who also never had someone bet 100m on them. Considering AEW was already a thing before Omega signed lol.

You either aren't as big of an AEW as you claim to be or you're dabbling in revisionist history. Do me a favor and rewatch the first AEW press conference and tell me where Omega is.


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> 10k viewers for a return hahaha. Pathetic! The good brothers did a million YouTube views in wwe


You're seriously telling us that Kenny Omega wouldn’t draw at least 2 million viewers via YouTube clip if he made his WWE debut to a loud pop?


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> I'm not sure how a list would be relevant considering we are talking about Omega, who also never had someone bet 100m on them. Considering AEW was already a thing before Omega signed lol.
> 
> You either aren't as big of an AEW as you claim to be or you're dabbling in revisionist history. Do me a favor and rewatch the first AEW press conference and tell me where Omega is.


Kenny signing was always the plan for TK. He watched what Jericho and Kenny did for NJPW, watched Kenny selling out NJPW’s biggest shows, and the plan was always to nab he, The Bucks, Cody, and Jericho.

Pretending AEW exists without Kenny is comical. He did everything that Punk TALKED about doing and didn’t have to go suck McMahon cock to make the audience find him. They came to HIM…

To the tune of $100m bet that wrestling backed he, Cody, Bucks, and Jericho would work.


----------



## Stevieg786

What time are Dynamite’s ratings out?


----------



## Aussierex

Where my ratings fix at


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 983,000
18-49: 0.32

#4 on cable. They beat the NBA preseason games but the MLB game won the night with 0.81(!) and 3.1m viewers. As expected, live sport will start to impact AEW although not too much yet.

This ended a long run of being down YoY as for the equivalent show in 2021 they did 0.28/728,000 - the very point their hot spell came to an end and they were kind of fucked over by preemptions.

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

10/5: 1,038,000 / 0.33
9/28: 990,000 / 0.34
9/21: 1,039,000 / 0.35
9/14: 1,175,000 / 0.39
9/7: 1,035,000 / 0.38
8/31: 1,020,000 / 0.35
8/24 1,049,000 / 0.34
8/17: 957,000 / 0.30


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> Couldn’t be me. Excited to see AEW get another million this week while Omega is off the card!


Aw, dangnabbit!

They were a bit short of a million viewers this week 

Send us Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks to help the viewership then!


----------



## Top bins

I'd be interested to see the hour by hour quarter breakdown. Did they start over 1 million and then they saw who was in the main event and thought nah fuck that. And gradually tuned out.


----------



## bdon

Top bins said:


> I'd be interested to see the hour by hour quarter breakdown. Did they start over 1 million and then they saw who was in the main event and thought nah fuck that. And gradually tuned out.


Danielson losing viewers is almost a guarantee.


----------



## Saintpat

I was planning to watch AEW last night but when the Braves-Phillies playoff game got delayed a few hours to a later start by weather I went baseball. With Philly winning the first game it became must-win for Atlanta and I was invested.

I suspect that little glitch figured into a few hundred thousand people making decisions on what to watch live.


----------



## The real Axel

Rejoice my fellow E-bots we got em!


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Tony Khan counting down the days until 2022 is over.


----------



## 3venflow

Bad quality for now as it's ripped from a stream. Like last week, it largely lost viewers as it went along with the exception of Q3, which had The Acclaimed and Billy. The biggest drop in total viewers was by far the women's QH. There were also small gains in the 18-49 for the end of Jericho vs. Danielson, arresting a downward trend in that metric after Q3.

Perhaps Jericho vs. Danielson might have held a bit more as main event, but there's no telling for sure.


----------



## The XL 2

I don't dislike Danielson, but the guy was pretty big anti draw TV ratings wise until the Yes movement, and after that was over, he didn't move the needle much either. If he's not being used as either an underdog babyface or a chickenshit heel, he's not going to do any positive business. No one cares about him being this tough technical wrestler in the way of William Regal or Dean Malenko. And what makes it worse is that he's being pushed as a tough guy who loses all the time.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

What, the extremely prestigious All-Atlantic Championship didn’t draw in the viewers? Bummer!


----------



## bdon

The XL 2 said:


> I don't dislike Danielson, but the guy was pretty big anti draw TV ratings wise until the Yes movement, and after that was over, he didn't move the needle much either. If he's not being used as either an underdog babyface or a chickenshit heel, he's not going to do any positive business. No one cares about him being this tough technical wrestler in the way of William Regal or Dean Malenko. And what makes it worse is that he's being pushed as a tough guy who loses all the time.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> What, the extremely prestigious All-Atlantic Championship didn’t draw in the viewers? Bummer!


Nah, the All-Atlantic title is super prestigious, and it gave us an awesome moment last night to close the show too


----------



## omaroo

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, the All-Atlantic title is super prestigious, and it gave us an awesome moment last night to close the show too


Prestigious? ok if you say so   

The trash OC winning a title just sums it up where everything is with AEW right now.


----------



## Geeee

they should put The Acclaimed in the main event


----------



## DammitChrist

omaroo said:


> Prestigious? ok if you say so
> 
> *The trash OC* winning a title just sums it up where everything is with AEW right now.


Nah, the majority of the audience/fans say otherwise 

Orange Cassidy is honestly a great talent, and he deserves to finally hold some singles gold.

For the record, there's really nothing wrong with the entertaining product atm


----------



## Itiswhatitis

Ouch. Look at those ratings fall!! So much for pet projects like the clown show Cassidy and Garcia . Both ratings disasters. Tony will never learn.


----------



## DammitChrist

Itiswhatitis said:


> Ouch. Look at those ratings fall!! So much for pet projects like the clown show Cassidy and Garcia . Both ratings disasters. Tony will never learn.


Nah, there's actually multiple examples where Orange Cassidy and Daniel Garcia have received good ratings due to the fact that they're both over acts on weekly TV.

Both men deserve to be pushed even more


----------



## One Shed

Yup, the predictable Q8 slide into oblivion by not only featuring Garbage Trashitty but actually having a guy like PAC job to the dork. Sucks to see the awful booking decisions continue.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The rating is still effectively a million and the demo just over .3. Would like a higher demo but it's still a good number. The competition is far greater than in the summer so I am interested to see if they can maintain near theswe numbers. The returning Elite should fortify their ratings.

Time will tell. I hope their ratings do stay stable.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> Yup, the predictable Q8 slide into oblivion by not only featuring Garbage *Trashitty but actually having a guy like PAC job to the dork*. Sucks to see the awful booking decisions continue.


Who’s that guy?

No, Pac lost to *Orange Cassidy* last night, which was definitely the right booking decision 

Let’s not ignore the rest of the other occasions where Cassidy has clearly drawn good quarterly numbers throughout the last 2+ years.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Who’s that guy?
> 
> No, Pac lost to *Orange Cassidy* last night, which was definitely the right booking decision
> 
> Let’s not ignore the rest of the other occasions where Cassidy has clearly drawn good quarterly numbers throughout the last 2+ years.


Even the hardcores are growing more and more tired of his lazy, one dimensional, boring ass. Keep pretending otherwise though.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Cornette, @One Shed , the PWI fuck that was quoted here, and so many keep harping on that Omega lost 200k viewers the night of his return. It was Bryan Danielson who lost 200k viewers.
> 
> I demand this be discussed. Almighty Bryan, psychology and grown up wrestling, man’s man, losing viewers. Why is that? He’s been losing viewers for a long while at that, but not a single one of those mf’ers dare point it out.


You seem to be conflating anyone who disagrees with you on anything here.

How about we go back and actually look what I said:



One Shed said:


> Yeah, it popped 100K people who tuned into see what he was going to do, then promptly left when they saw what that was.
> 
> View attachment 133486


As far as Danielson losing viewers, no way it could be due to his awful booking, jobbing to everyone, and being in a match with personality vacuum Daniel Garcia right?

And before you say "but but Kenny was in a trios match with another personality vacuum like Andrade!" I agree with you, and also note on that same page back when we discussed this before I said:



One Shed said:


> I am not saying he is not A draw. Just not anything to stop the presses about.


So that is it. When Danielson showed up and was kicking heads in, it was great. When he started jobbing to everyone and having nonstop matches with Yuta and Garcia, everyone started tuning out because the Booker of the Year managed to once again take the star power away from one of his few big stars. And yes, same thing when Kenny goofed around with the Hardlys and did the trios nonsense. All the trios garbage matches were channel changers. And as far as Punk and the 18,000 goes, yeah I am the one who did that math, remember? But we were comparing the entirety of Kenny's reign (removing the days they were preempted) vs the entirety of the ratings of the show the week after he lost the title to (at that time) present. Now, that is comparing when Omega was CHAMP to when he was not, NOT to a time when Danielson or Punk were champ. It was mostly when Hangman's boring reign was occurring. And ratings still were up over Kenny. Was Danielson the champ and focus of the show during that time? No. Was Punk? No. So the like for like comparison that you want to be there, is not there.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> Even the hardcores are growing more and more tired of his lazy, one dimensional, boring ass. Keep pretending otherwise though.


Nah, I ain’t pretending since last night’s crowd says otherwise.

The people who attended Dynamite last night in the arena erupted when Orange Cassidy finally won singles gold.

You don’t really represent the majority of wrestling fans who find the guy to be an awesome talent to watch perform.

He’s super entertaining btw, and he’s a great wrestler too


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> You seem to be conflating anyone who disagrees with you on anything here.
> 
> How about we go back and actually look what I said:
> 
> 
> As far as Danielson losing viewers, no way it could be due to his awful booking, jobbing to everyone, and being in a match with personality vacuum Daniel Garcia right?
> 
> And before you say "but but Kenny was in a trios match with another personality vacuum like Andrade!" I agree with you, and also note on that same page back when we discussed this before I said:
> 
> 
> So that is it. When Danielson showed up and was kicking heads in, it was great. When he started jobbing to everyone and having nonstop matches with Yuta and Garcia, everyone started tuning out because the Booker of the Year managed to once again take the star power away from one of his few big stars. And yes, same thing when Kenny goofed about with the Hardlys and did the trios nonsense. All the trios garbage matches were channel changers. And as far as Punk and the 18,000 goes, yeah I am the one who did that math, remember? But we were comparing the entirety of Kenny's reign (removing the days they were preempted) vs the entirety of the ratings of the show the week after he lost the title to (at that time) present. Now, that is comparing when Omega was CHAMP to when he was not, NOT to a time when Danielson or Punk were champ. It was mostly when Hangman's boring reign was occurring. And ratings still were up over Kenny. Was Danielson the champ and focus of the show during that time? No. Was Punk? No. So the like for like comparison that you want to be there, is not there.


Nah, Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta are both the complete opposite of ‘charisma vacuums’ since they both consistently get good crowd reactions over the last several months.

If this was 2004, then I bet the likes of Bryan Danielson and AJ Styles would both be called ‘charisma vacuums’ early on in their careers even though it’s such an inaccurate claim.

That term means absolutely nothing now since it’s been butchered to death for several years.

Edit:

Adam Page’s AEW World title reign was really good btw


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, I ain’t pretending since last night’s crowd says otherwise.
> 
> The people who attended Dynamite last night in the arena erupted when Orange Cassidy finally won singles gold.
> 
> You don’t really represent the majority of wrestling fans who find the guy to be an awesome talent to watch perform.
> 
> He’s super entertaining btw, and he’s a great wrestler too


Oh, I would not know. Like a lot of the audience I immediately turned out when the match started.

And I must say again, the majority of wrestling fans are not watching AEW so it is not accurate to say most wrestling fans like the goof. Quite the opposite. Just now, even the more hardcore fans who will watch anything are even saying that enough is enough.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta are both the complete opposite of ‘charisma vacuums’ since they both consistently get good crowd reactions over the last several months.
> 
> If this was 2004, then I bet the likes of Bryan Danielson and AJ Styles would both be called ‘charisma vacuums’ early on in their careers even though it’s such an inaccurate claim.
> 
> That term means absolutely nothing now since it’s been butchered to death for several years.


I never said charisma vacuums, I said personality vacuums. Stop having straw man arguments with phantoms. Those might be easier to have, but you will be arguing with yourself.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> Oh, I would not know. Like a lot of the audience I immediately turned out when the match started.
> 
> And I must say again, the majority of wrestling fans are not watching AEW so it is not accurate to say most wrestling fans like the goof. *Quite the opposite. Just now, even the more hardcore fans who will watch anything are even saying that enough is enough.*


Nah, it’s definitely the opposite. 

Most of the AEW audience are entertained greatly by Cassidy, and they love watching the guy perform in the ring.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, it’s definitely the opposite.
> 
> Most of the AEW audience are entertained greatly by Cassidy, and they love watching the guy perform in the ring.


Quite the opposite? So his match did not bleed viewers and was the lowest rated segment on the show? Do you not know what words mean?


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> Quite the opposite? So his match did not bleed viewers and was the lowest rated segment on the show? Do you not know what words mean?


Ratings fluctuate unpredictably, and I guarantee that you’d be silent had Cassidy been at least in the top 4 highest rated quarterly segments.

My valid point still stands


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Ratings fluctuate unpredictably, and I guarantee that you’d be silent had Cassidy been at least in the top 4 highest rated quarterly segments.
> 
> My valid point still stands


"Unpredictably"

Hahahaha. Yeah, no possible reasons or explanations to be found! All just a huge mystery!


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> "Unpredictably"
> 
> Hahahaha. Yeah, no possible reasons or explanations to be found! All just a huge mystery!


Yep, now you’re finally getting somewhere


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, now you’re finally getting somewhere


Absolutely hysterical if you actually believe that.

A day in the universe you seem to inhabit:

_DC looks out the window seeing dark clouds_

You: "Sure is a great day. I think I will walk to the store."

_Starts pouring rain_

You: "Man, weather sure does fluctuate unpredictably! What a mystery! If only I had a way to know whether I should pack an umbrella or not."


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> Absolutely hysterical if you actually believe that.
> 
> A day in the universe you seem to inhabit:
> 
> _DC looks out the window seeing dark clouds_
> 
> You: "Sure is a great day. I think I will walk to the store."
> 
> _Starts pouring rain_
> 
> You: "Man, weather sure does fluctuate unpredictably! What a mystery! If only I had a way to know whether I should pack an umbrella or not."


Okay, this one killed me 😂

Edit:

I’m actually tearing up.


----------



## IronMan8

For reference, most weeks AEW Dynamite is getting:

80% of Raw's demo
65% of SD's demo



bdon said:


> Danielson losing viewers is almost a guarantee.


Proof?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> *Ratings fluctuate unpredictably*, and I guarantee that you’d be silent had Cassidy been at least in the top 4 highest rated quarterly segments.
> 
> My valid point still stands




No hurricane to blame the downward drop on this week?


----------



## IronMan8

Hotdiggity11 said:


> No hurricane to blame the downward drop on this week?


Downward drop or dancing of the means?

Is that a rhetorical question?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

IronMan8 said:


> Downward drop or dancing of the means?
> 
> Is that a rhetorical question?



“Dancing of the means” when there was only one quarterly increase throughout the show and it was consistently under its 4 week moving average?


----------



## IronMan8

Hotdiggity11 said:


> “Dancing of the means” when there was only one quarterly increase throughout the show and it was consistently under its 4 week moving average?


I mean big picture.

These data are extrapolated ya know.

Isn't 1 quarterly increase typical for these data? Pattern looks normal.

Since this week's rating is up by like 25% over last year, sustaining this approximate water level will represent significant growth on last year - anything 900 plus next couple of months = huge year on year growth numbers for AEW

Every single year has shown growth thus far, so AEW is and always has been on an upward trajectory


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> You seem to be conflating anyone who disagrees with you on anything here.
> 
> How about we go back and actually look what I said:
> 
> 
> As far as Danielson losing viewers, no way it could be due to his awful booking, jobbing to everyone, and being in a match with personality vacuum Daniel Garcia right?
> 
> And before you say "but but Kenny was in a trios match with another personality vacuum like Andrade!" I agree with you, and also note on that same page back when we discussed this before I said:
> 
> 
> So that is it. When Danielson showed up and was kicking heads in, it was great. When he started jobbing to everyone and having nonstop matches with Yuta and Garcia, everyone started tuning out because the Booker of the Year managed to once again take the star power away from one of his few big stars. And yes, same thing when Kenny goofed around with the Hardlys and did the trios nonsense. All the trios garbage matches were channel changers. And as far as Punk and the 18,000 goes, yeah I am the one who did that math, remember? But we were comparing the entirety of Kenny's reign (removing the days they were preempted) vs the entirety of the ratings of the show the week after he lost the title to (at that time) present. Now, that is comparing when Omega was CHAMP to when he was not, NOT to a time when Danielson or Punk were champ. It was mostly when Hangman's boring reign was occurring. And ratings still were up over Kenny. Was Danielson the champ and focus of the show during that time? No. Was Punk? No. So the like for like comparison that you want to be there, is not there.


Look further. You’ll find you were saying Kenny lost 200k viewers and even quoting some PWI as fact checking until I pointed out that it was wrong.

Punk was front and center the moment Kenny dropped the belt. It wasn’t Hangman opening shows with MJF back and forths. Hangman was champ in name only. The show revolves entirely around Punk and MJF, which is another reason why Hangman failed miserably as champ (besides being boring).

Anyone pretending Dynamite was not the CM Punk show is lying to themselves. There is a reason Punk was opening the show every week, followed by a Bryan quarter. Followed by MJF. Followed by Bay Bay and Page.

You know better…


----------



## bdon

IronMan8 said:


> For reference, most weeks AEW Dynamite is getting:
> 
> 80% of Raw's demo
> 65% of SD's demo
> 
> 
> 
> Proof?


Go back and look at his quarter hours. I know of multiple times he has lost 200k viewers since Omega’s return in mid-August.


----------



## IronMan8

bdon said:


> Go back and look at his quarter hours. I know of multiple times he has lost 200k viewers since Omega’s return in mid-August.


I've been checking this thread most weeks and I haven't seen evidence of what you're claiming

They went 15 minutes overtime one week and the number dropped, but I attributed that to timeslot/DVR

Even Skye Blue or QT Marshall don't cause 200k dynamite viewers to turn off the show, so I don't understand how Danielson could possibly be causing 200k AEW fans to change the channel because of his appearances. 

I don't get it, so I'm asking for more info in case I'm wrong


----------



## CovidFan

IronMan8 said:


> Since this week's rating is up by like 25% over last year


This is quite a cherry pick considering last year's was on a Saturday. Let me guess, if they get 1.1m next week, you'll claim they're up 100% yoy because last year was 575k when they were also on a Saturday...

This is the second time in a few weeks I've caught you either being disingenuous or straight up lying (because you don't fact check or do it well).


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Look further. You’ll find you were saying Kenny lost 200k viewers and even quoting some PWI as fact checking until I pointed out that it was wrong.
> 
> Punk was front and center the moment Kenny dropped the belt. It wasn’t Hangman opening shows with MJF back and forths. Hangman was champ in name only. The show revolves entirely around Punk and MJF, which is another reason why Hangman failed miserably as champ (besides being boring).
> 
> Anyone pretending Dynamite was not the CM Punk show is lying to themselves. There is a reason Punk was opening the show every week, followed by a Bryan quarter. Followed by MJF. Followed by Bay Bay and Page.
> 
> You know better…


I did quote Dave Scherer so you can argue with him if you want. For my part, the only other thing I said regarding that number was this:



One Shed said:


> Fact is, viewers went down whenever anything to do with the trios stuff was known to be happening. The first week, with the "hype" he was returning, over 200,000 less were watching by the end of moment than had started watching the show. For the specific segment, yes many did come back after the women's match chased them off but most turned it off again after they saw the trios stuff was going to be even more ridiculous than the normal level of ridiculous stuff the Hardlys are involved in. Rinse and repeat for the whole tournament. People turned in when it was Punk and Mox doing stuff, then promptly tuned out when it was Kenny's turn. The point of the argument in that article is just that maybe Kenny is not the one that should be talking down to the locker room including saying he would not hire 80% of them when he has been part of what has caused fans to tune out since being back.
> 
> And of course you fail to address any of the other points, but that would require thinking vs just dismissing and attacking people personally who say things you disagree with. I mean who is THIS guy anyway who points out things that happened? Can he not just print things I want to read?


Now, did I say 200,000 people tuned out because of Kenny? No. So...keep searching...

One of issues with AEW is the show does not revolve around anyone. Punk may have opened many shows (as he should) but the show never revolved around him. Like everyone else in AEW, he had his segment and in most cases was never seen again on the show. But tell me more about how the show revolved around Punk. Did he open and close the show? Did the announcers talk about what Punk was doing in every segment? No? Of course not. Now, I know you remember WCW. In those days, the show DID revolve around the main event guys. In most matches, the commentary was actually able to multitask and both call the match and put the guys over, but make sure to keep the audience up to date on what was going on with the big angles. AEW refuses to do that. They have a bunch of unconnected and disjointed segments stapled together in most cases. Do you disagree?

Again, Punk opened the show a lot but then usually vanished. That is not revolving a show around someone, but it is featuring your biggest star at least. Now, either Punk or Danielson SHOULD have won the belt instead of Page and everyone knows it. I kind of even felt bad for Page because he was so hilariously upstaged by better talent that it sabotaged him in a way.


----------



## DammitChrist

No, Adam Page was 100% the RIGHT guy to beat Kenny Omega for the AEW World title last year.

It wasn't CM Punk's time nor was it Bryan Danielson's time to win the world championship.

It's an extremely questionable booking decision to coronate either man so early into their AEW runs.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> I did quote Dave Scherer so you can argue with him if you want. For my part, the only other thing I said regarding that number was this:
> 
> 
> Now, did I say 200,000 people tuned out because of Kenny? No. So...keep searching...
> 
> One of issues with AEW is the show does not revolve around anyone. Punk may have opened many shows (as he should) but the show never revolved around him. Like everyone else in AEW, he had his segment and in most cases was never seen again on the show. But tell me more about how the show revolved around Punk. Did he open and close the show? Did the announcers talk about what Punk was doing in every segment? No? Of course not. Now, I know you remember WCW. In those days, the show DID revolve around the main event guys. In most matches, the commentary was actually able to multitask and both call the match and put the guys over, but make sure to keep the audience up to date on what was going on with the big angles. AEW refuses to do that. They have a bunch of unconnected and disjointed segments stapled together in most cases. Do you disagree?
> 
> Again, Punk opened the show a lot but then usually vanished. That is not revolving a show around someone, but it is featuring your biggest star at least. Now, either Punk or Danielson SHOULD have won the belt instead of Page and everyone knows it. I kind of even felt bad for Page because he was so hilariously upstaged by better talent that it sabotaged him in a way.


Did the show revolve around Kenny? Two can play that game.


----------



## bdon

IronMan8 said:


> I've been checking this thread most weeks and I haven't seen evidence of what you're claiming
> 
> They went 15 minutes overtime one week and the number dropped, but I attributed that to timeslot/DVR
> 
> Even Skye Blue or QT Marshall don't cause 200k dynamite viewers to turn off the show, so I don't understand how Danielson could possibly be causing 200k AEW fans to change the channel because of his appearances.
> 
> I don't get it, so I'm asking for more info in case I'm wrong


Here ya go, and these are just from the time Kenny returned:

























In less than 2 months, Bryan lost 200k viewers twice and 130k viewers another time.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

IronMan8 said:


> I mean big picture.
> 
> These data are extrapolated ya know.
> 
> Isn't 1 quarterly increase typical for these data? Pattern looks normal.
> 
> *Since this week's rating is up by like 25% over last year, *sustaining this approximate water level will represent significant growth on last year - anything 900 plus next couple of months = huge year on year growth numbers for AEW
> 
> Every single year has shown growth thus far, so AEW is and always has been on an upward trajectory




Which was on a Saturday…


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Did the show revolve around Kenny? Two can play that game.


No, I agree with you. I just said one of their issues is it does not revolve around anyone.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> No, I agree with you. I just said one of their issues is it does not revolve around anyone.


And my point was that Punk was treated like champ with all of the bells and whistles for his feud and all of the TV time. He got 20 minute promos where The Story of the Adams got 3-4 minute promos. It was much like Mox’s reign in the pandemic playing second fiddle to Cody and Jericho.

Now mine you, I said all along that I thought Page should have dropped the title immediately to Bryan or Punk, because it was clear to anyone watching that Page would be overshadowed.

But the point is when Omega, ie THE alternative, left television, a show headlined by Bryan, Punk, Mox, Jericho, and MJF all working programs together (as they should), the difference was a whopping 18k viewers.

And in the highest rated episodes in Dynamites history, Omega was the highest rated segmenta in 3 out of the 5.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> No, Adam Page was 100% the RIGHT guy to beat Kenny Omega for the AEW World title last year.
> 
> It wasn't CM Punk's time nor was it Bryan Danielson's time to win the world championship.
> 
> It's an extremely questionable booking decision to coronate either man so early into their AEW runs.


Not their "time."

Imagine this line of thinking. Now apply it to literally any other industry.

"We just hired the former CEO of a successful company, but he is too new so we have him answering calls at the front desk."

"We just drafted the Heisman trophy winner #1 in the draft, but he just got here so he needs to be third string for now."

"We just hired a 20 year veteran welder, but he just got here so we have him working under Steve who just celebrated his one year anniversary here."

"That paramedic has 10 years experience, but that was in the county next door. He needs to drive for now until it is his time."

"Congrats on having the best sales record for the year, but you have only been here one year. Bob here has been here 20 and sold 1/10th of what you did, but your time for promotion will come."

Brooklyn Brawler 4 champ!


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> And my point was that Punk was treated like champ with all of the bells and whistles for his feud and all of the TV time. He got 20 minute promos where The Story of the Adams got 3-4 minute promos. It was much like Mox’s reign in the pandemic playing second fiddle to Cody and Jericho.
> 
> Now mine you, I said all along that I thought Page should have dropped the title immediately to Bryan or Punk, because it was clear to anyone watching that Page would be overshadowed.
> 
> But the point is when Omega, ie THE alternative, left television, a show headlined by Bryan, Punk, Mox, Jericho, and MJF all working programs together (as they should), the difference was a whopping 18k viewers.
> 
> And in the highest rated episodes in Dynamites history, Omega was the highest rated segmenta in 3 out of the 5.


Can you imagine a 20 minute Page promo though? Yes, Punk got a few, but it was hardly HHH literally every week 20 minute level. But that is Tony wanting to have it both ways. He wanted to do the All Friends thing, but he also knew Punk was the star. You always need to strike then the iron is hot. They managed to completely miss the ball on Wardlow too. Imagine Goldberg doing what he did, beating Raven for the US Title, then beating Scott Hall, and then...disappearing for a month and then just going back to randomly defending the US title in competitive matches with Silver King and El Dandy. Remember when Hulk Hogan was feuding with Billy Kidman? 18K right there.

On the last point, I just do not see what alternative he is. I get that you like him, but he is just another guy to me who has goofy tendencies and bores me more than he entertains me. But that is just my preference, when a lot of the other stuff is like incredibly bad booking vs preference


----------



## CovidFan

CovidFan said:


> This is quite a cherry pick considering last year's was on a Saturday. Let me guess, if they get 1.1m next week, you'll claim they're up 100% yoy because last year was 575k when they were also on a Saturday...
> 
> This is the second time in a few weeks I've caught you either being disingenuous or straight up lying (because you don't fact check or do it well).


DC I see you out here giving eye rolls. What exactly do you disagree with here? Was I lying somehow? Does the truth make you cry?


----------



## IronMan8

bdon said:


> Here ya go, and these are just from the time Kenny returned:
> View attachment 135812
> 
> View attachment 135814
> 
> View attachment 135815
> 
> 
> In less than 2 months, Bryan lost 200k viewers twice and 130k viewers another time.


Thank you for finding these. 

That's why I'm always happy to debate you bdon, you're respectful and take the time to argue in good faith.

I accept these numbers as facts. To summarise, you've provided factual evidence that viewership dropped 3 times in 2nd quarters featuring Danielson, by:


91k
136k
192k

These are facts. 

Now, I will look at the 192k drop. The above graphic provides me with 3 additional facts:


Danielson was present in both the 1st & 2nd quarter
The 2nd quarter had 2 ad breaks (pip + regular ads) while the 1st quarter had no ads
The 2nd quarter had 2 other segments that did not feature Danielson

Therefore, all facts considered, I reject the above evidence as confirmation that Danielson caused 192k viewers to change the channel.

Lastly, I will consider the 136k drop. The above graphic provides me with 1 additional key fact:

- The 2nd quarter had 2 ad breaks (pip + regular ads) while the 1st quarter had no ads

Therefore, all facts considered, I reject the above evidence as confirmation that Danielson caused 136k viewers to change the channel.

Quarter hours are subject to many confounding factors such as disproportionate ad placements and segments not fitting neatly into each QH chunk.

What say you?


----------



## bdon

IronMan8 said:


> Thank you for finding these.
> 
> That's why I'm always happy to debate you bdon, you're respectful and take the time to argue in good faith.
> 
> I accept these numbers as facts. To summarise, you've provided factual evidence that viewership dropped 3 times in 2nd quarters featuring Danielson, by:
> 
> 
> 91k
> 136k
> 192k
> 
> These are facts.
> 
> Now, I will look at the 192k drop. The above graphic provides me with 3 additional facts:
> 
> 
> Danielson was present in both the 1st & 2nd quarter
> The 2nd quarter had 2 ad breaks (pip + regular ads) while the 1st quarter had no ads
> The 2nd quarter had 2 other segments that did not feature Danielson
> 
> Therefore, all facts considered, I reject the above evidence as confirmation that Danielson caused 192k viewers to change the channel.
> 
> Lastly, I will consider the 136k drop. The above graphic provides me with 1 additional key fact:
> 
> - The 2nd quarter had 2 ad breaks (pip + regular ads) while the 1st quarter had no ads
> 
> Therefore, all facts considered, I reject the above evidence as confirmation that Danielson caused 136k viewers to change the channel.
> 
> Quarter hours are subject to many confounding factors such as disproportionate ad placements and segments not fitting neatly into each QH chunk.
> 
> What say you?


First: Bryan lost 195k viewers from the previous segment in the first graphic. 1.104 in Qtr 1 all the way down to 909 by the end of Bryan’s segment.

I am only riding Bryan, because those pretending Omega isn’t a draw have routinely ignored that Bryan is often the biggest culprit in the largest viewership drop.

Jim Cornette, some PWI guy, and everyone who listens to them were commenting that Omega’s big return had lost 200k viewers when that just wasn’t the case. It was Bryan. Omega showing up gained 100k viewer, and a boring 6-man match involving Andrade and 2 guys the TV audience don’t know lost 90k. That was still a net gain over the prior quarter hour of 10k viewers over a 30-minute period. It had 2 ad breaks as well, but it was still a net positive.

Yet all the Cornette Clowns could do was parrot Jim in talking about how Omega’s big return lost viewers. If you can get a net gain at the end of the show while occupying 2 quarter hours with fucking Andrade, you are not part of the problem.

Bryan does have reasons for losing viewers, but losing 100k plus viewers three seperate times in a 2 month period is alarming and should be all the more reason to end this stupid Garcia shit.


----------



## Top bins

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, the All-Atlantic title is super prestigious, and it gave us an awesome moment last night to close the show too


Fucking hell 😂😭 super prestigious 😭😭😭😭😭😭😂😭😂😭😭😭😂😭

With Trent Barretta, Kip Sapian and Orange Cassidy being the challengers for the belt and man is gonna say the title is prestigious 😭😭😭😭😭😂😭😭😭 I legitimately spat out my morning coffee reading that 😭😂😭😭😭😭 😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Super duper prestigious!


----------



## DammitChrist

Top bins said:


> Fucking hell 😂😭 super prestigious 😭😭😭😭😭😭😂😭😂😭😭😭😂😭
> 
> With Trent Barretta, Kip Sapian and Orange Cassidy being the challengers for the belt and man is gonna say the title is prestigious 😭😭😭😭😭😂😭😭😭 I legitimately spat out my morning coffee reading that 😭😂😭😭😭😭 😂😂😂😂😂


Yep, it's hilarious because my earlier post is true


----------



## Top bins

Hotdiggity11 said:


> What, the extremely prestigious All-Atlantic Championship didn’t draw in the viewers? Bummer!


The main event according to the stats was 856K. So clearly a lot of people never returned for the main event. 

Remember when Dean Malenko main eventer Monday night raw against Funaki with the European title on the line? Or the cruiserweights? 

This program with PAC and Cassidy wasn't even on dynamite. And Cassidy returned on battle of the belts which drew probably half of what dynamite draws. So half of dynamite's usual audience didn't even see/care when Cassidy showed up on battle of the belts. 

And that program was with the main event slot of your biggest TV show?

Fucking hell Tony Khan.


----------



## Top bins

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, it's hilarious because my earlier post is true


Man you are funny 😭😂 I give you that


----------



## One Shed

Top bins said:


> This program with PAC and Cassidy wasn't even on dynamite. And Cassidy returned on battle of the belts which drew probably half of what dynamite draws. So half of dynamite's usual audience didn't even see/care when Cassidy showed up on battle of the belts.


Oh, it drew less than 1/3 of what Dynamite usually does.


----------



## IronMan8

bdon said:


> First: Bryan lost 195k viewers from the previous segment in the first graphic. 1.104 in Qtr 1 all the way down to 909 by the end of Bryan’s segment.
> 
> I am only riding Bryan, because those pretending Omega isn’t a draw have routinely ignored that Bryan is often the biggest culprit in the largest viewership drop.
> 
> Jim Cornette, some PWI guy, and everyone who listens to them were commenting that Omega’s big return had lost 200k viewers when that just wasn’t the case. It was Bryan. Omega showing up gained 100k viewer, and a boring 6-man match involving Andrade and 2 guys the TV audience don’t know lost 90k. That was still a net gain over the prior quarter hour of 10k viewers over a 30-minute period. It had 2 ad breaks as well, but it was still a net positive.
> 
> Yet all the Cornette Clowns could do was parrot Jim in talking about how Omega’s big return lost viewers. If you can get a net gain at the end of the show while occupying 2 quarter hours with fucking Andrade, you are not part of the problem.
> 
> Bryan does have reasons for losing viewers, but losing 100k plus viewers three seperate times in a 2 month period is alarming and should be all the more reason to end this stupid Garcia shit.


Ah, I see.

So you're seeing criticism towards Omega

It's wrong

And you want to reject it

That makes sense. The reasons I'm rejecting the Danielson stuff are the same reasons you can reject the Omega stuff - QHs are a terrible indicator of any single wrestler's value and can't be taken seriously.

Meltzer only refers to them when he doesn't have the minutes on hand, and Keller disregards them completely, then talks about the minutes when he gets them.

Nobody uses QHs, so why should we?

Tony himself cites the minutes if anything. MJF's pipebomb recent kayfabe example of the same

Even in the late 90's, WCW wrestlers took advantage of the many QH quirks to make themselves look like bigger draws... that's how flimsy they are. Nobody takes them seriously

So instead of using Danielson's QH's as ammo for a good cause, the OWA here is the anti-QH stuff, anything else is the word of Don Callis and Don Callis sucks even if I did pop for Hangman's win


----------



## kingfunkel

Wow Jericho and Danielson tanked that audience. Surprised by that because of the name values but the angle is dreadful. It's starting to look like the only actual draw at this point is Moxley. 

Tony Khan needs to wrap his head round the women's division. It's torture and a ratings killer, majority of the time. I would honestly just pawn it off onto Serena Deeb. Experienced, intelligent, the best wrestler they have. Let her try run the whole division.


----------



## bdon

IronMan8 said:


> Ah, I see.
> 
> So you're seeing criticism towards Omega
> 
> It's wrong
> 
> And you want to reject it
> 
> That makes sense. The reasons I'm rejecting the Danielson stuff are the same reasons you can reject the Omega stuff - QHs are a terrible indicator of any single wrestler's value and can't be taken seriously.
> 
> Meltzer only refers to them when he doesn't have the minutes on hand, and Keller disregards them completely, then talks about the minutes when he gets them.
> 
> Nobody uses QHs, so why should we?
> 
> Tony himself cites the minutes if anything. MJF's pipebomb recent kayfabe example of the same
> 
> Even in the late 90's, WCW wrestlers took advantage of the many QH quirks to make themselves look like bigger draws... that's how flimsy they are. Nobody takes them seriously
> 
> So instead of using Danielson's QH's as ammo for a good cause, the OWA here is the anti-QH stuff, anything else is the word of Don Callis and Don Callis sucks even if I did pop for Hangman's win


No, I am merely trying to make people keep their energy and be honest. Bryan doesn’t draw, and it’s “well, he’s just been booked poorly.” Kenny consistently outdraws him, and it ranges from “Kenny is no big time draw or anything to write home about” to flat out lying and attributing Bryan’s viewership losses to Kenny.

Because it is impossible that the WWE guy know for his seriousness is getting outdrew by Harpo McFingerFuck. Can’t possibly be.


----------



## IronMan8

bdon said:


> No, I am merely trying to make people keep their energy and be honest. Bryan doesn’t draw, and it’s “well, he’s just been booked poorly.” Kenny consistently outdraws him, and it ranges from “Kenny is no big time draw or anything to write home about” to flat out lying and attributing Bryan’s viewership losses to Kenny.
> 
> Because it is impossible that the WWE guy know for his seriousness is getting outdrew by Harpo McFingerFuck. Can’t possibly be.


But Bryan does draw

There's no evidence to the contrary at least


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

IronMan8 said:


> Thank you for finding these.
> 
> That's why I'm always happy to debate you bdon, you're respectful and take the time to argue in good faith.
> 
> I accept these numbers as facts. To summarise, you've provided factual evidence that viewership dropped 3 times in 2nd quarters featuring Danielson, by:
> 
> 
> 91k
> 136k
> 192k
> 
> These are facts.
> 
> Now, I will look at the 192k drop. The above graphic provides me with 3 additional facts:
> 
> 
> Danielson was present in both the 1st & 2nd quarter
> The 2nd quarter had 2 ad breaks (pip + regular ads) while the 1st quarter had no ads
> The 2nd quarter had 2 other segments that did not feature Danielson
> 
> Therefore, all facts considered, I reject the above evidence as confirmation that Danielson caused 192k viewers to change the channel.
> 
> Lastly, I will consider the 136k drop. The above graphic provides me with 1 additional key fact:
> 
> - The 2nd quarter had 2 ad breaks (pip + regular ads) while the 1st quarter had no ads
> 
> Therefore, all facts considered, I reject the above evidence as confirmation that Danielson caused 136k viewers to change the channel.
> 
> Quarter hours are subject to many confounding factors such as disproportionate ad placements and segments not fitting neatly into each QH chunk.
> 
> What say you?


Jesus you're the only person on here who breaks out advanced trigonometry and college thesis length posts to defend one of your favorites tanking the ratings. It ain't that serious homeslice. Your long-winded post can be tl:dr translated into: "No, muh Bryan is a draw so shut up!"


----------



## Irish Jet

One Shed said:


> One of issues with AEW is the show does not revolve around anyone. Punk may have opened many shows (as he should) but the show never revolved around him. Like everyone else in AEW, he had his segment and in most cases was never seen again on the show. But tell me more about how the show revolved around Punk. Did he open and close the show? Did the announcers talk about what Punk was doing in every segment? No? Of course not. Now, I know you remember WCW. In those days, the show DID revolve around the main event guys. In most matches, the commentary was actually able to multitask and both call the match and put the guys over, but make sure to keep the audience up to date on what was going on with the big angles. AEW refuses to do that. They have a bunch of unconnected and disjointed segments stapled together in most cases. Do you disagree?
> 
> Again, Punk opened the show a lot but then usually vanished. That is not revolving a show around someone, but it is featuring your biggest star at least. Now, either Punk or Danielson SHOULD have won the belt instead of Page and everyone knows it. I kind of even felt bad for Page because he was so hilariously upstaged by better talent that it sabotaged him in a way.














Top bins said:


> Fucking hell 😂😭 super prestigious 😭😭😭😭😭😭😂😭😂😭😭😭😂😭
> 
> With Trent Barretta, Kip Sapian and Orange Cassidy being the challengers for the belt and man is gonna say the title is prestigious 😭😭😭😭😭😂😭😭😭 I legitimately spat out my morning coffee reading that 😭😂😭😭😭😭 😂😂😂😂😂


DC is nothing if not entertaining. I genuinely appreciate the commitment to the act.


----------



## GarpTheFist

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> Jesus you're the only person on here who breaks out advanced trigonometry and college thesis length posts to defend one of your favorites tanking the ratings. It ain't that serious homeslice. Your long-winded post can be tl:dr translated into: "No, muh Bryan is a draw so shut up!"



Bdon gave him irrefutable evidence, you can see Bryan's match literally lose viewers on this week's QH graph too yet blind fans like him still dont want to accept bryan is an anti-draw. Cry about it all you want but it's the truth. Any amount of "aew made him lose star power" doesn't change that fact and that argument can be applied to so many wrestlers of the last 20 years but funny how you never hear it for others.


----------



## Not Lying

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> Jesus you're the only person on here who breaks out advanced trigonometry and college thesis length posts to defend one of your favorites tanking the ratings. It ain't that serious homeslice. Your long-winded post can be tl:dr translated into: "No, muh Bryan is a draw so shut up!"


In other words, simple analysis is not your strong suit.


----------



## IronMan8

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> Jesus you're the only person on here who breaks out advanced trigonometry and college thesis length posts to defend one of your favorites tanking the ratings. It ain't that serious homeslice. Your long-winded post can be tl:dr translated into: "No, muh Bryan is a draw so shut up!"


Whatever it is I'm doing is effortless, but uh... I'll give it a shot:

"Brah, wrong tl;dr!"

How'd I go? 





GarpTheFist said:


> Bdon gave him irrefutable evidence, you can see Bryan's match literally lose viewers on this week's QH graph too yet blind fans like him still dont want to accept bryan is an anti-draw. Cry about it all you want but it's the truth. Any amount of "aew made him lose star power" doesn't change that fact and that argument can be applied to so many wrestlers of the last 20 years but funny how you never hear it for others.


Already debunked... keep up!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

QH and 'who is a draw' are such silly arguments to be having

we have 5% of the needed data to make an actual, analytical argument - QHs is just a way for people to prop their faves and slag the ones they hate

next week the QH with the All Atlantic goes higher and then everybody is in a tizzy


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

I mean, if we want to get really into the weeds about who draws vs who doesn’t, and I mean REALLY then you need the following (though there may be more factors):

-Minute by minute numbers
-The recent history of any wrestlers involved in those minutes
-How the viewership was in those minutes the prior weeks
-Who consistently has drawn in that segment taking place in minute by minute numbers prior week (any segment they were in that took place exactly in those minutes)
-What other shows were on in those minutes prior weeks, what actually happened in those minutes on those shows and how it compares to prior weeks for those shows (was there a big moment that got more people watching a particular week vs prior weeks)

And that’s not all, because you’d also need to consider irl events that takes people out of the house and not watching at particular times. There’s probably more factors to consider too.

While QH are far from perfect for determining who draws, if someone’s segment is largely in that quarter then it can be a decent source of information. Not perfect by any means, but far better than hourly numbers or the overall show average.


----------



## Jaxon

how can they stop that slide that they have every week when the show is on that they lose viewers


----------



## bdon

IronMan8 said:


> But Bryan does draw
> 
> There's no evidence to the contrary at least


He doesn’t draw according to the same metrics they are using to argue Omega doesn’t draw: the TV ratings. I’m being pretty straight-forward here, man. I don’t believe Bryan isn’t an asset, but if THEY are going to argue Omega isn’t a draw based on his return alone popping 100k extra viewers but his match with Andrade and two guys the tv viewing audience doesn’t know losing 90k, then BY THEIR STANDARDS, Bryan is not a draw at all considering he lost 200k viewers that night, 130k another night, and 200k a third night.

I am only hammering home the point to try and make these people admit to how ignorant their POV is.


----------



## IronMan8

bdon said:


> He doesn’t draw according to the same metrics they are using to argue Omega doesn’t draw:


My whole point is the QHs are meaningless and can't be used to prove anything


----------



## bdon

IronMan8 said:


> My whole point is the QHs are meaningless and can't be used to prove anything


And my point is that until these people shut up claiming Omega lost 200k viewers in one breath and excusing (or outright ignoring) Bryan losing 200k viewers, I’m going to beat this drum. 


My point isn’t aimed at you, so you don’t need to be offended.


----------



## Mr316

The QHs mean EVERYTHING. When a show starts with 1,1 millions viewers and ends with 800k, it means everything.

There’s a reason why WWE very often open their shows with Reigns and then show him in some backstage segments and then close the shows with him. They would do the same thing with Cena, Rock, Austin, Hogan. That’s how you fucking keep viewers watching throughout the show. It’s a formula that WORKS.

AEW could do this with their top draws (Mox, MJF, The Acclaimed, etc) but for whatever reason Tony won’t do it.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> The QHs mean EVERYTHING. When a show starts with 1,1 millions viewers and ends with 800k, it means everything.
> 
> There’s a reason why WWE very often open their shows with Reigns and then show him in some backstage segments and then close the shows with him. They would do the same thing with Cena, Rock, Austin, Hogan. That’s how you fucking keep viewers watching throughout the show. It’s a formula that WORKS.
> 
> AEW could do this with their top draws (Mox, MJF, The Acclaimed, etc) but for whatever reason Tony won’t do it.


Nah, the current Universal Champion generally opens multiple shows because it’s already been long established for years that he’s a non-draw who needs to be booked for the 1st quarter (where most fans are likely to tune in regardless of who opens) since they know that he’s incapable of drawing much viewers himself.

Comparing him to Steve Austin, The Rock, John Cena, and Hulk Hogan is an insult to those legends. 

Anyway, AEW should continue what they’re doing instead of using your outdated method which won’t work


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, the current Universal Champion generally opens multiple shows because it’s already been long established for years that he’s a non-draw who needs to be booked for the 1st quarter (where most fans are likely to tune in regardless of who opens) since they know that he’s incapable of drawing much viewers himself.
> 
> Comparing him to Steve Austin, The Rock, John Cena, and Hulk Hogan is an insult to those legends.
> 
> Anyway, AEW should continue what they’re doing instead of using your outdated method which won’t work


Comparing Yawn Cena to those other three legends is an insult to them.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

It’s AE Dubbalo official. AEW crushing WWE in viewership.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581453582292828161


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hotdiggity11 said:


> It’s AE Dubbalo official. AEW crushing WWE in viewership.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581453582292828161


they most likely do if you count DVR +7 and online + international

hell, wwe likely gets double that, or triple - people really misunderstand the current viewing landscape huh?


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 458,000
18-49: 0.17

Its best demo since Grand Slam and best non-Grand Slam demo since August meant Rampage cracked cable's top 10 on Friday.

*Last two months*

10/7: 404,000 / 0.13
9/30: 472,000 / 0.16
9/23: 522,000 / 0.17 (Grand Slam)
9/16: 470,000 / 0.14
9/9: 429,000 / 0.14
9/2: 485,000 / 0.16
8/26: 431,000 / 0.11
8/19: 461,000 / 0.12


----------



## Geeee

It's crazy that a 0.17 is top 10 on Friday. People really not watching TV that day.

Rampage actually 3rd after baseball O_O


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage QHs from Friday:


----------



## Geeee

3venflow said:


> Rampage QHs from Friday:
> 
> View attachment 136114


interesting that it mostly held.


----------



## Top bins

Mr316 said:


> The QHs mean EVERYTHING. When a show starts with 1,1 millions viewers and ends with 800k, it means everything.
> 
> There’s a reason why WWE very often open their shows with Reigns and then show him in some backstage segments and then close the shows with him. They would do the same thing with Cena, Rock, Austin, Hogan. That’s how you fucking keep viewers watching throughout the show. It’s a formula that WORKS.
> 
> AEW could do this with their top draws (Mox, MJF, The Acclaimed, etc) but for whatever reason Tony won’t do it.


You mean Orange Cassidy didn't draw the viewers back in 😱


----------



## Aedubya

.92 prediction


----------



## kingfunkel

Ratings will be interesting this week. Switch of day, against NXT and the start of Baseball. I imagine the average will drop to 870k but still out draw NXT.


----------



## GarpTheFist

I'd be shocked if they aren't under 900k


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Switched days always do bad

guessing 750k to 800k max


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 752,000
18-49: 0.26

#8 on cable

*NXT*

Viewers: 676,000
18-49: 0.18

#12 on cable










-

Last two months (viewers / 18-49)

10/12: 983,000 / 0.322
10/5: 1,038,000 / 0.33
9/28: 990,000 / 0.34
9/21: 1,039,000 / 0.35
9/14: 1,175,000 / 0.39
9/7: 1,035,000 / 0.38
8/31: 1,020,000 / 0.35
8/24 1,049,000 / 0.34


----------



## NathanMayberry

So Dynamite either owes its success to the Big Bang theory’s lead in and then switching days. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Switched days always do bad
> 
> *guessing 750k to 800k max*


Wow, are you some kind of wizard?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RIHO WINS AGAIN


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582825869470375936


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> RIHO WINS AGAIN
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582825869470375936


----------



## Dr. Middy

Switched to Tuesday and with the MLB Playoffs and NBA opening night.

I mean, what did we expect?


----------



## Mr316

Fine number considering everything.


----------



## Christopher Near

They really should've saved mox vs hangman for a tv special


----------



## RapShepard

Surprised viewership was close the demo wash was expected


----------



## DammitChrist

To be fair, the viewership for both shows is pretty reasonable for this week.

That's with the added competition going against both Dynamite and NXT too.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

About what I expected, given the move, playoffs, and a competing wrestling product. On tthe bright side, next week is going to have a very nice rebound.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582829784748343297


----------



## NathanMayberry

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582829784748343297


Oh so they had an even bigger lead in than usual. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

VRMS7 said:


> DAAAAAADDD, they didn't want to see my mudshow, everybody left
> View attachment 136192


Except for the fact that plenty of people actually watched Dynamite too.


----------



## rich110991

You just know that WWE drones would have gone on and on if they had beat Dynamite. But now it’s just “you beat our developmental”.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Not a bad number for both shows that had NHL and NBA on their backs.


----------



## One Shed

Obviously not being on their normal day means less people watching. I even forgot it was on until halfway through.


----------



## Saintpat

If you had offered both companies these numbers yesterday afternoon or take their chances given the competition (not so much with each other but with MLB/NBA), I think they’d both have taken these gladly.

Good number for AEW switching nights and in top 10, NXT highest demo since August (and in the range of normal total viewership) is a win for WWE — the head to head really matters little, it’s how they stand in the total landscape that matters and both did well for themselves.

I call this a win for wrestling on both fronts.


----------



## 3venflow

Both shows lost a lot of viewers in hour two. Is that (9pm) when the basketball and/or baseball started proper?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

VRMS7 said:


> View attachment 136193


how does it feel to be a permabanned rejoiner and having to come back here cause no place else wants you either?


----------



## CovidFan

It's 250k down from last week but that's ok because it's up 23.5% year over year!!!

I think this performed about how any rational person thought it would.


----------



## drougfree

not surprised when you are pushing geeks like Page and your biggest star and draw (Punk) aint there


----------



## 3venflow

drougfree said:


> not surprised when you are pushing geeks like Page and your biggest star and draw (Punk) aint there


Not surprised by their rating being down like every other show in history that is preempted? Their numbers have been incredibly consistent in their normal timeslot, more than ever. If Punk was there there would have been very little difference.

Newsflash: The October 23 show last year was preempted and had Punk in an angle on the show plus a main event of Cody vs. Malakai... and drew 575,000/0.22. Almost like being shunted to another day has an impact on ratings, not to mention live sports (RAW lost half a million viewers when MNF started).


----------



## NathanMayberry

Didn't AEW have like 4 titles including a World Title match on the line?


Saintpat said:


> If you had offered both companies these numbers yesterday afternoon or take their chances given the competition (not so much with each other but with MLB/NBA), I think they’d both have taken these gladly.
> 
> Good number for AEW switching nights and in top 10, NXT highest demo since August (and in the range of normal total viewership) is a win for WWE — the head to head really matters little, it’s how they stand in the total landscape that matters and both did well for themselves.
> 
> I call this a win for wrestling on both fronts.


AEW is happy with having a world title match have 600,000 viewers? Less and less people are tuning into the things that are supposed to be the biggest draw for the company.


----------



## 3venflow

Look at past preemptions AEW has had - this fared better than most of them.

In 2021, they went from 821,000 viewers on a normal week to 526,000 preempted (followed by 462,000 the next week). Later that year, they went from 1.05m on a normal week to 727,000 preempted (followed by 575,000 the next week).

The rating would have been par the course in its normal timeslot. And not only were they preempted, they were against another wrestling show in its normal timeslot, with WWE eager to beat Dynamite and promoting the hell out of it (plus sending a lot of main roster talents), plus a bunch of live sports.

The number was fine given all of these variables. It looks like hour two of both AEW and NXT were impacted by whatever was happening on the live sports shows as both lost a lot of viewers even though they hadn't aired all of their main content yet.


----------



## rich110991

NathanMayberry said:


> Didn't AEW have like 4 titles including a World Title match on the line?
> 
> AEW is happy with having a world title match have 600,000 viewers? Less and less people are tuning into the things that are supposed to be the biggest draw for the company.


Different night
Sports competition

figured I’d just simplify it for you


----------



## Prosper

Not too shabby all things considered. With the fallout to Hangman’s legit injury and the strong card next week (with Riho too 😂)I’m expecting a much better number.


----------



## IronMan8

The benevolent Tony Kahn decided not to book the one wrestler who outdraws Roman Reigns on days like these - The Bunny.

Good sportsmanship by TK


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

AEW fans convincing themselves this is a win aren't good at following things very well.

Getting 750k viewers and beating NXT is worse than getting a million viewers and having more eyes on your product.

AEW being once again put on the same level as NXT even though this time it's even more developmental, isn't great for AEW either.


----------



## DammitChrist

AuthorOfPosts said:


> AEW fans convincing themselves this is a win aren't good at following things very well.
> 
> Getting 750k viewers and beating NXT is worse than getting a million viewers and having more eyes on your product.
> 
> AEW being once again put on the same level as NXT even though this time it's even more developmental, isn't great for AEW either.


Nah, this week was actually a good rating for Dynamite, and someone else already proved earlier on that they retained far more viewership than the previous occasions where they changed time slots.

Once again, AEW continues to steadily grow


----------



## CovidFan

AuthorOfPosts said:


> AEW fans convincing themselves this is a win aren't good at following things very well.
> 
> Getting 750k viewers and beating NXT is worse than getting a million viewers and having more eyes on your product.
> 
> AEW being once again put on the same level as NXT even though this time it's even more developmental, isn't great for AEW either.


Satire or ???


----------



## Itiswhatitis

Wow what a Ratings FLOP!!! Down about 260,000 and no sign of growing an audience. Just clinging to that small base. That opening trios match was a booking disaster and dud.


----------



## DammitChrist

Itiswhatitis said:


> Wow what a Ratings FLOP!!! Down about 260,000 and no sign of growing an audience. Just clinging to that small base. That opening trios match was a booking disaster and dud.


Sure, a ratings 'flop' equates to a great show retaining well in viewership compared to previous occasions where they swapped nights 

The opening trios match was actually pretty good btw, and it was a definite success too


----------



## Itiswhatitis

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, this week was actually a good rating for Dynamite, and someone else already proved earlier on that they retained far more viewership than the previous occasions where they changed time slots.
> 
> Once again, AEW continues to steadily grow


Growth? How? Not even close. They've dropped a ton this week. They aren't gaining new viewers.


----------



## DammitChrist

Itiswhatitis said:


> Growth? How? Not even close. They've dropped a ton this week. They aren't gaining new viewers.


It's like the concept of switching nights and/or changing the time slots consequently affecting the viewership for a given week is totally lost on you.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

The delusion of AEW fans still going strong.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

AuthorOfPosts said:


> The delusion of AEW fans still going strong.


They will honestly need therapy if AEW goes out of business lol


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

rich110991 said:


> Different night
> Sports competition
> 
> figured I’d just simplify it for you


The show started with the same 1m viewers in Q1 it always does, if being on a different night and facing sports hurts that much shouldn't the show have started with a lot less viewers than normal? NXT faced a lot of competition too and their viewership was about the same as it usually is and their demo was tied for their highest of the year. 

I don't want to hear about some main roster stars being on NXT used as an excuse either. According to the IWC WWE can't or isn't willing to create stars anymore so ok if that's true what would adding some Raw and Smackdown wrestlers help? 

There aren't any stars in WWE anymore so there shouldn't be a difference made in ratings, right? A Rhea Ripley appearance shouldn't add any more viewers than an NXT regular like Cora Jade. 

They got a lead-in from a Yankees playoff game that had nearly 5m viewers, they started off with 1m but slid down to only 600k+ by the main event. The normal audience was there from the start they just didn't stick around. Sports competition, a different day and NXT weren't huge factors.


----------



## plontivorst

LifeInCattleClass said:


> how does it feel to be a permabanned rejoiner and having to come back here cause no place else wants you either?


@mods
is this not bullying?! the poor guy obviously has no friends n just wanted to belong in SOME community,ANY community,even the online wrestling one (the saddest one probably tho all of dem r sad),n dis heartless sociopath mocks him n bullies him maybe even to a point of suicide

fucking soulless psychopaths


----------



## GarpTheFist

plontivorst said:


> @mods
> is this not bullying?! the poor guy obviously has no friends n just wanted to belong in SOME community,ANY community,even the online wrestling one (the saddest one probably tho all of dem r sad),n dis heartless sociopath mocks him n bullies him maybe even to a point of suicide
> 
> fucking soulless psychopaths



@Firefromthegods @Eastwood Before you ban him, tell us who the guy is


----------



## Top bins

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> The show started with the same 1m viewers in Q1 it always does, if being on a different night and facing sports hurts that much shouldn't the show have started with a lot less viewers than normal? NXT faced a lot of competition too and their viewership was about the same as it usually is and their demo was tied for their highest of the year.
> 
> I don't want to hear about some main roster stars being on NXT used as an excuse either. According to the IWC WWE can't or isn't willing to create stars anymore so ok if that's true what would adding some Raw and Smackdown wrestlers help?
> 
> There aren't any stars in WWE anymore so there shouldn't be a difference made in ratings, right? A Rhea Ripley appearance shouldn't add any more viewers than an NXT regular like Cora Jade.
> 
> They got a lead-in from a Yankees playoff game that had nearly 5m viewers, they started off with 1m but slid down to only 600k+ by the main event. The normal audience was there from the start they just didn't stick around. Sports competition, a different day and NXT weren't huge factors.


Did they see Orange Cassidy in the first match and thought 'nah fuck that'? Honest question


----------



## Irish Jet

rich110991 said:


> Different night
> Sports competition
> 
> figured I’d just simplify it for you


Interesting that NXT almost maintained it's viewership with the very same sports competition. They even went up in the demo!

A strong lead in on Dynamite ending with 600,000 viewers for the world title match! Wow! 

They absolutely haemorrhaged viewers on the night. Concerning times in Jacksonville for sure.


----------



## CM Buck

GarpTheFist said:


> @Firefromthegods @Eastwood Before you ban him, tell us who the guy is


I'm not quite sure. Cat is usually better at catching the unobvious ones


----------



## Irish Jet

3venflow said:


> Look at past preemptions AEW has had - this fared better than most of them.
> 
> In 2021, they went from 821,000 viewers on a normal week to 526,000 preempted (followed by 462,000 the next week). Later that year, they went from 1.05m on a normal week to 727,000 preempted (followed by 575,000 the next week).


Hahaha. You've taken this from Meltzer. Literal propaganda.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582886424243712000
Do I even need to point out why this is so hilariously disingenuous? "Unfamiliar night" is not the same night and the NBA is not College Football.

I love how he framed this as an effort to apply context when he's actually removing it. Trash.


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

Irish Jet said:


> Hahaha. You've taken this from Meltzer. Literal propaganda.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582886424243712000
> Do I even need to point out why this is so hilariously disingenuous? "Unfamiliar night" is not the same night and the NBA is not College Football.
> 
> I love how he framed this as an effort to apply context when he's actually removing it. Trash.


Melting Dave also conviently ignored the big MLB playoff game lead-in Dynamite benefited from this year vs last.


----------



## DammitChrist

Irish Jet said:


> Hahaha. You've taken this from Meltzer. Literal propaganda.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582886424243712000
> Do I even need to point out why this is so hilariously disingenuous? "Unfamiliar night" is not the same night and the NBA is not College Football.
> 
> I love how he framed this as an effort to apply context when he's actually removing it. Trash.





Don Draper's Ghost said:


> Melting Dave also conviently ignored the big MLB playoff game lead-in Dynamite benefited from this year vs last.


Nah, Dave Meltzer is honestly a pretty reliable source regardless of your input


----------



## Freelancer

Did moving nights help? Of course not. Are the ratings improving? Not really. That being said, I still find it hilarious that the WWE fanboys want them to fail.


----------



## Lady Eastwood

GarpTheFist said:


> @Firefromthegods @Eastwood Before you ban him, tell us who the guy is


This angry Serbian guy who makes 800 alts. Most people wouldn’t remember him at all. He’s been banned for about a year now and still comes back to say the same old boring shit. He broke rules, got banned, his booty still hurts. This is like his 4th alt this week.


----------



## Geeee

So, all the people that think the change in night didn't matter are willing to bet that Dynamite is going to be 750k going forward?


----------



## 3venflow

Irish Jet said:


> Hahaha. You've taken this from Meltzer. Literal propaganda.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582886424243712000
> Do I even need to point out why this is so hilariously disingenuous? "Unfamiliar night" is not the same night and the NBA is not College Football.
> 
> I love how he framed this as an effort to apply context when he's actually removing it. Trash.


I posted it hours before Meltzer, but good try.

Preemptions always hurt. Always. Especially day shifts, as opposed to starting an hour earlier or later. The worst obviously being a day shift _and_ later time, which is what dropped Dynamite to 462,000/0.19 last July. When Smackdown was shifted to FS2 last time, it lost over 50% of its viewers (2.24m to 1.03m) and the reason wasn't sudden disinterest, it was channel shift, as shown when they were up to 2.09m the following week.

Normal timeslot vs. different day against another wrestling show (which WWE put the mothership behind in promoting and sent a host of main roster stars) plus MLB and NBA (the top raters on the night).

Anyone who didn't expect or doesn't understand why the rating dropped is being disingenuous, not whatever you thought my post to be. Look at the trend of ratings going back months and the answer is in the data. It's the second time this year they dropped below 800,000 viewers (vs. 13 times last year). It wasn't sudden disinterest that created this ratings anomaly, it was preemption.

Dynamite did fine. Could have done a bit better, could have done a lot worse.


----------



## IronMan8

HHH fans love putting their noses in someone else's business, don't they?


----------



## 3venflow

IronMan8 said:


> HHH fans love putting their noses in someone else's business, don't they?


And always curiously absent on a normal week when they finish first or second on cable. These people are oddities who hate seeing a second company doing well. Only a truly miserable soul could be unhappy that both major companies are doing well right now, with WWE reversing a years-long trend of ratings falling and AEW the most consistent it has ever been over the year, and impressing WBD.


----------



## cai1981

Irish Jet said:


> Hahaha. You've taken this from Meltzer. Literal propaganda.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582886424243712000
> Do I even need to point out why this is so hilariously disingenuous? "Unfamiliar night" is not the same night and the NBA is not College Football.
> 
> I love how he framed this as an effort to apply context when he's actually removing it. Trash.


He forgot to mention that AEW was moverd to Saturdays last year...the night that no one watches TV!


----------



## ElTerrible

When I think of WWE trolls, I think of a Coke fan standing in a supermarket yelling at random strangers, because they buy Pepsi.


----------



## Kishido

Awesome numbers. They beat NXT after all like in the past


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

NXT won over time if you take away the lead in for AEW. Quincy Elliot beat out the AEW champs LOL.


----------



## DammitChrist

CenaBoy4Life said:


> NXT won over time if you take away the lead in for AEW. Quincy Elliot beat out the AEW champs LOL.


Nah, AEW destroyed NXT this week (and that includes Quincy Elliott)


----------



## Hotdiggity11

AEW still NXT's daddy I see.


----------



## One Shed

Top bins said:


> Did they see Orange Cassidy in the first match and thought 'nah fuck that'? Honest question


100%. They should have started off with something that could have grabbed potential new viewers. But no, they decided to show the Best Friends and Trashitty and the remotes could not click away fast enough.


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> Both shows lost a lot of viewers in hour two. Is that (9pm) when the basketball and/or baseball started proper?
> 
> View attachment 136195


So basically the better lead in and MJF saved AEW from losing to NXT. Thats…ok.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> 100%. They should have started off with something that could have grabbed potential new viewers. But no, they decided to show the Best Friends and Trashitty and the remotes could not click away fast enough.


Best Friends teamed with *Orange Cassidy* (aka 3 of the many members in CHAOS) on Dynamite this week.

That other name doesn't exist, dude.

By the way, nah, CHAOS received a strong rating for their trios match against Death Triangle.


----------



## bdon

Dave is being disingenuous as fuck. Tuesday vs Saturday is a major thing. Different channel is a major thing. Different time is a major thing.

Trying to compare preemptions due to NBA playoffs to this is just straight up BS. Lol


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, AEW destroyed NXT this week (and that includes Quincy Elliott)


That is total Bs when you break it down. 
Elliot and Quinn won their match in total viewers and so did Grimes with good brothers.

AEW only won from the lead in and mjf. Then people bounced and said fuck that shit. Looking at NXT you can say they held their total and have only been going up since HBK took over. That is what you call real growth. AEW should be shitting their depends right now.


----------



## DammitChrist

CenaBoy4Life said:


> That is total Bs when you break it down.
> Elliot and Quinn won their match in total viewers and so did Grimes with good brothers.
> 
> AEW only won from the lead in and mjf. Then people bounced and said fuck that shit. Looking at NXT you can say they held their total and have only been going up since HBK took over. That is what you call real growth. AEW should be shitting their depends right now.


AEW won this week (while continuing to grow their audience), and that's ultimately all that matters


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

really not even worth responding to you anymore


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

If there is one metric where AEW kicks the crap out of WWE it's the number of people arguing about TV ratings.


----------



## La Parka

MonkasaurusRex said:


> If there is one metric where AEW kicks the crap out of WWE it's the number of people arguing about TV ratings.


What's the demo of the people arguing? That's the real question.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

La Parka said:


> What's the demo of the people arguing? That's the real question.


Pure gold, boss.


----------



## Wolf Mark

At some point Dynamite was doing 1m head to head with NXT. Before NXT left Dynamite did 632k. And now Dynamite does 900 average unopposed. So that number is worse than we think.

752 vs 676 I feel like these are the numbers these companies would get if they were head to head again.


----------



## kingfunkel

So ratings are in NXT kept roughly within the recent average of upper 600k and lower 700k. So either the NXT fans don't watch AEW or they'd prefer to watch NXT.

AEW was a massive drop, which can be put to the change of date and some preferring to watch NXT. 
How many viewers on average were each company getting when head to head, on a Wednesday? 1.4m seems like the amount of wrestling fans, who would watch wrestling on a Tuesday. 

Also does Dave Meltzer have shares in AEW?


----------



## CovidFan

Wolf Mark said:


> And now Dynamite does 900 average unopposed.


Maybe we can call it 1m unopposed when this happens for two months?

10/12: 983,000 / 0.322
10/5: 1,038,000 / 0.33
9/28: 990,000 / 0.34
9/21: 1,039,000 / 0.35
9/14: 1,175,000 / 0.39
9/7: 1,035,000 / 0.38
8/31: 1,020,000 / 0.35
8/24 1,049,000 / 0.34

IstandWithAEW . but fr let's give some props to them *growing their audience*.

Emphasized for my buddy, DC


----------



## DUSTY 74




----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584635710379888651


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Smackdown continuing its endless streak of victories in the Friday Night Wars. 😁


----------



## 3venflow

Other than Grand Slam, that was Rampage's most viewed episode since September 2nd. The 18-49 was well down from last week though, even though more people watched the show.


----------



## Prosper

La Parka said:


> What's the demo of the people arguing? That's the real question.


10-12 year olds from the shit I read on here.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584691497483599872


----------



## SeiyaKanie

next week smackdown is on FS1. Time to send the bunny face off against the tribal chief again


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 997,000
18-49: 0.32

#5 on cable (NBA was #1 and #2).

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

10/18: 752,000 / 0.26
10/12: 983,000 / 0.32
10/5: 1,038,000 / 0.33
9/28: 990,000 / 0.34
9/21: 1,039,000 / 0.35
9/14: 1,175,000 / 0.39
9/7: 1,035,000 / 0.38
8/31: 1,020,000 / 0.35


----------



## HoneyBee

Back on track with the ratings. Good shit.


----------



## RapShepard

Stable install base with of without Punk or The Elite has to be conforming business wise


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

A million viewers and 5th in the demo. Like Mark Henry, it's what they do.They are doing better in the 50+ than usual.


----------



## the_hound

SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE said:


> A million viewers and 5th in the demo. Like Mark Henry, it's what they do.They are doing better in the 50+ than usual.


Viewers: *997,000, last i checked 997,000 is not 1 million*


----------



## HoneyBee

the_hound said:


> Viewers: *997,000, last i checked 997,000 is not 1 million*


Last I checked the hound was dead meat.


----------



## Christopher Near

Wheeler yuta has got to go


----------



## DammitChrist

the_hound said:


> Viewers: *997,000, last i checked 997,000 is not 1 million*


Man, what difference does it make?

That's pretty much a million viewers since that's the overall rating (on average of all 8 quarters). The difference between both those numbers isn't even a big gap.

That's like nitpicking over a Raw bump not drawing 2 million viewers just because they drew 1.997 million viewers.


----------



## DammitChrist

Christopher Near said:


> Wheeler yuta has got to go


That loud crowd who chanted Wheeler Yuta's name last night says otherwise.


----------



## Prosper

Niceeee. I'd love to see the demo back over a 0.4 though.


----------



## rich110991

Deserved more. Pissed all over RAW.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

DammitChrist said:


> That loud crowd who chanted Wheeler Yuta's name last night says otherwise.


A bunch of dammitcrists in that crowd thats why lmao theyll cheer for anyone AEW


----------



## Hotdiggity11

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> A bunch of dammitcrists in that crowd thats why lmao theyll cheer for anyone AEW



The shorter and more malnourished, the louder the neckbeards squeal.


----------



## CovidFan

drougfree said:


> not surprised when you are pushing geeks like Page and your biggest star and draw (Punk) aint there





Itiswhatitis said:


> Wow what a Ratings FLOP!!! Down about 260,000 and no sign of growing an audience. Just clinging to that small base. That opening trios match was a booking disaster and dud.





Itiswhatitis said:


> Growth? How? Not even close. They've dropped a ton this week. They aren't gaining new viewers.





BestInTheWorld312 said:


> They will honestly need therapy if AEW goes out of business lol


OMG YOU GUYS!!! DYNAMITE SURGED WITH 250K MORE PEOPLE THIS WEEK!!! THAT'S A 33% INCREASE OF PEOPLE WEEK-OVER-WEEK!!! I WONDER WHY THAT WOULD BE!!!!? 

apologies to the haters I missed. I have a bunch of you on ignore


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 997,000
> 18-49: 0.32
> 
> #5 on cable (NBA was #1 and #2).
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 10/18: 752,000 / 0.26
> 10/12: 983,000 / 0.32
> 10/5: 1,038,000 / 0.33
> 9/28: 990,000 / 0.34
> 9/21: 1,039,000 / 0.35
> 9/14: 1,175,000 / 0.39
> 9/7: 1,035,000 / 0.38
> 8/31: 1,020,000 / 0.35
> 
> View attachment 136665


look at growth week on week


----------



## Sad Panda

it always amuses me the ghost town this thread becomes when AEW pops a good rating.

The mob shall rest in the shadows until next week at 4 pm eastern time.


----------



## IronMan8

33% growth this week!

At this rate:

Next week: 1,326,000 viewers
In 2 weeks: 1,763,000 viewers (beat Raw)
In 3 weeks: 2,345,000 viewers (beat SD)
A month: 3,119,000 viewers
...and by Christmas: 12,982,547 viewers

*assuming good weather, of course


----------



## Kishido

Yes!!! 33 % more


----------



## HoneyBee

Looking back at last year's episode, there's some good and bad news for the program. The 10/27/2021 airing of "Dynamite" had a total audience of 941,000 putting Wednesday's episode up six percent over 2021. However, this year's episode was down in the key demographic. Last year's had an audience of 518,000, nearly 100,000 more than this week's episode, totaling for a 20% drop and a 0.40 rating.

Read More: AEW Dynamite Viewership Reaches Nearly 1 Million After Shifting Back To Wednesday Night - Wrestling Inc.


----------



## Fearless Viper

They're back to 900k+ range.


----------



## .christopher.

Christopher Near said:


> Wheeler yuta has got to go


It'd a WCW-esque mistake letting the new Stone Cold Steve Austin go to the WWE.


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

rich110991 said:


> Deserved more. Pissed all over RAW.


How would you know unless you watch Raw?


----------



## IronMan8

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> How would you know unless you watch Raw?


With all due respect, it's WWE.

I can't think of a single Raw from 2017-2019 that was as fun as this week's Dynamite. Raw gargled, and you know it 

But each to their own, some people love WWE and love ain't a bad thing


----------



## Aedubya

Winning


----------



## rich110991

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> How would you know unless you watch Raw?


Who said I didn’t?


----------



## shadow_spinner

*AEW Dynamite 10/26 quarter-hours*









Total viewers (18-49 demo)
Q1: BCC vs JAS tag match - 1,076,000 (477,000)
Q2: End of match, BCC interview, Elite tease, JAS promo, start of FTR vs SIOG - 1,075,00 (472,000)
Q3: FTR vs SIOG, post match, Britt/Saraya interview - 1,037,000 (443,000)
Q4: MJF promo, Taven/Wardlow video, start of Danielson vs. Sammy - 1,021,000 (445,000)
Q5: Danielson vs. Sammy, Rey Fenix promo - 982,000 (408,000)
Q6: Riho vs. Jamie Hayer - 927,000 (390,000)
Q7: Eddie promo, Darby promo, Jay Lethal & co. promo, start of Mox vs. Penta - 906,000 (361,000)
Q8: Mox vs Penta, Firm beatdown - 955,000 (351,000)


----------



## bdon

shadow_spinner said:


> *AEW Dynamite 10/26 quarter-hours*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Total viewers (18-49 demo)
> Q1: BCC vs JAS tag match - 1,076,000 (477,000)
> Q2: End of match, BCC interview, Elite tease, JAS promo, start of FTR vs SIOG - 1,075,00 (472,000)
> Q3: FTR vs SIOG, post match, Britt/Saraya interview - 1,037,000 (443,000)
> Q4: MJF promo, Taven/Wardlow video, start of Danielson vs. Sammy - 1,021,000 (445,000)
> Q5: Danielson vs. Sammy, Rey Fenix promo - 982,000 (408,000)
> Q6: Riho vs. Jamie Hayer - 927,000 (390,000)
> Q7: Eddie promo, Darby promo, Jay Lethal & co. promo, start of Mox vs. Penta - 906,000 (361,000)
> Q8: Mox vs Penta, Firm beatdown - 955,000 (351,000)


Jim Cornette and his cronies: “THE ELITE LOSE ANOTHER HUNDRED THOUSAND OR SO VIEWERS, BRIIIIIIIANNNNNN! WHAT AM I MISSING HERE!?”


----------



## 3venflow

shadow_spinner said:


> *AEW Dynamite 10/26 quarter-hours*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Total viewers (18-49 demo)
> Q1: BCC vs JAS tag match - 1,076,000 (477,000)
> Q2: End of match, BCC interview, Elite tease, JAS promo, start of FTR vs SIOG - 1,075,00 (472,000)
> Q3: FTR vs SIOG, post match, Britt/Saraya interview - 1,037,000 (443,000)
> Q4: MJF promo, Taven/Wardlow video, start of Danielson vs. Sammy - 1,021,000 (445,000)
> Q5: Danielson vs. Sammy, Rey Fenix promo - 982,000 (408,000)
> Q6: Riho vs. Jamie Hayer - 927,000 (390,000)
> Q7: Eddie promo, Darby promo, Jay Lethal & co. promo, start of Mox vs. Penta - 906,000 (361,000)
> Q8: Mox vs Penta, Firm beatdown - 955,000 (351,000)


That's a very impressive retention from Q2 to Q1 given that is the most vulnerable QH for losing fans due to leftovers from the lead-in. MJF vs. Yuta recently also did a good job of holding viewers in the same way.

Hour two still has a habit of losing viewers, leaving the main event to claw back some of those viewers.

BTW, here is the year-on-year data. Statistically speaking, this is their best year, but I feel that's slightly misleading as the preemptions absolutely ravaged them in the past with the Friday/Saturday night Dynamites. The move to TBS has been a godsend.

Dynamite 2019 average (12 shows): 911,000 viewers, 0.35 demo
Dynamite 2020 average (52 shows): 855,000 viewers, 0.31 demo
Dynamite 2021 average (52 shows): 903,000 viewers, 0.34 demo
Dynamite 2022 average so far (42 shows): 980,000 viewers, 0.36 demo


----------



## Prized Fighter

3venflow said:


> That's a very impressive retention from Q2 to Q1 given that is the most vulnerable QH for losing fans due to leftovers from the lead-in. MJF vs. Yuta recently also did a good job of holding viewers in the same way.
> 
> Hour two still has a habit of losing viewers, leaving the main event to claw back some of those viewers.
> 
> BTW, here is the year-on-year data. Statistically speaking, this is their best year, but I feel that's slightly misleading as the preemptions absolutely ravaged them in the past with the Friday/Saturday night Dynamites. The move to TBS has been a godsend.
> 
> Dynamite 2019 average (12 shows): 911,000 viewers, 0.35 demo
> Dynamite 2020 average (52 shows): 855,000 viewers, 0.31 demo
> Dynamite 2021 average (52 shows): 903,000 viewers, 0.34 demo
> Dynamite 2022 average so far (42 shows): 980,000 viewers, 0.36 demo


Yuta being part of QH that retain viewers does go against the feeling that he is some anti-draw. The year over year is interesting. I agree that less preemptions matter, but we also have to take into account the roster fluctuation. At times during this year, AEW has been without Punk, Danielson, Mox, MJF, and The Elite. As bloated as the roster is, this year does show the need for a deep reserve roster.


----------



## IronMan8

3venflow said:


> That's a very impressive retention from Q2 to Q1 given that is the most vulnerable QH for losing fans due to leftovers from the lead-in. MJF vs. Yuta recently also did a good job of holding viewers in the same way.
> 
> Hour two still has a habit of losing viewers, leaving the main event to claw back some of those viewers.
> 
> BTW, here is the year-on-year data. Statistically speaking, this is their best year, but I feel that's slightly misleading as the preemptions absolutely ravaged them in the past with the Friday/Saturday night Dynamites. The move to TBS has been a godsend.
> 
> Dynamite 2019 average (12 shows): 911,000 viewers, 0.35 demo
> Dynamite 2020 average (52 shows): 855,000 viewers, 0.31 demo
> Dynamite 2021 average (52 shows): 903,000 viewers, 0.34 demo
> Dynamite 2022 average so far (42 shows): 980,000 viewers, 0.36 demo


Don't forget the 12 million viewer christmas episode will bump up the numbers 

We've got a 33% increase going each week now


----------



## DammitChrist

Oh hey, Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia were (heavily) featured in the top 2 highest rated quarterly segments of Dynamite for this week. Established stars like Chris Jericho, Bryan Danielson, and Claudio Castagnoli were also involved too.

This just further reinforces the fact that Yuta and Garcia should continue being pushed on TV each week as long-term investments for the company


----------



## DammitChrist

By the way, over a million viewers watching the Elite's tease in the 2nd quarter, and the ratings STILL holding steady shortly afterwards is just really satisfying to see.

They were never the alleged anti-draws.


----------



## kingfunkel

Numbers held well. 
Khan should be disappointed in himself Bryan was 1 of the biggest losers in viewers, yet he's 1 of the biggest names. If Tony needs to be the booker, then he needs someone beside him with experience.
He went from a fantastic heel, to irrelevant at this point.


----------



## Fearless Viper

.christopher. said:


> It'd a WCW-esque mistake letting the new Stone Cold Steve Austin go to the WWE.


What's even funnier is that there are some people that actually believe that.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> By the way, over a million viewers watching the Elite's tease in the 2nd quarter, and the ratings STILL holding steady shortly afterwards is just really satisfying to see.
> 
> They were never the alleged anti-draws.


And of course that is not what happened for anyone who can do math. There was not a huge drop off after the tease, but not a single net additional person tuned in after they aired it did they?


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> And of course that is not what happened for anyone who can do math. There was not a huge drop off after the tease, but not a single net additional person tuned in after they aired it did they?


The Elite didn't tank the ratings as some folks continue to pretend that they do, which was basically the main point.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> The Elite didn't tank the ratings as some folks continue to pretend that they do, which was basically the main point.


Their trios matches did tank ratings and a tease for their supposed "triumphant" return was met with a popcorn fart.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> Their trios matches did tank ratings and a tease for their supposed "triumphant" return was met with a popcorn fart.


Nah, that's completely false since there's multiple cases where the most watched Dynamite episodes in history had an Elite member in the highest rated quarterly segment, and there was a significant ratings bump where many wrestling fans genuinely wanted to see Kenny Omega make his long-awaited return.

The Elite also brought a large portion of fans (from NJPW + ROH) into watching AEW every week back in 2019.

Those trios matches were also MOTY contenders too.


----------



## 3venflow

A few ticket sale updates (sold/current config) from the last couple of weeks c/o WrestleTix:

11/9 @ Agganis Arena (MA): 2,519/3,530
11/16 @ Total Mortgage Arena (CT): 2,036/4,174
11/18 @ Prudential Center (NJ): 5,062/7,013 (Rampage)
11/19 @ Prudential Center (NJ): 10,362/11,953 (Full Gear)
11/23 @ Wintrust Arena (IL): 4,347/6,076
11/30 @ Indiana Farmers Coliseum (IN): 2,512/3,873
12/7 @ H-E-B Center (TX): 2,273/3,334
12/21 @ Freeman Coliseum (TX): 2,449/4,773

*2023*
1/4 @ Climate Pledge Arena (WA): 6,392/8,469
1/11 @ Kia Forum (CA): 5,626/8,941


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, that's completely false since there's multiple cases where the most watched Dynamite episodes in history had an Elite member in the highest rated quarterly segment, and there was a significant ratings bump where many wrestling fans genuinely wanted to see Kenny Omega make his long-awaited return.
> 
> The Elite also brought a large portion of fans (from NJPW + ROH) into watching AEW every week back in 2019.
> 
> Those trios matches were also MOTY contenders too.


Keep living in the past. The one trick ponies showed people everything they are capable of doing. No one wants to see another round of "choose me as your friend/partner" one-dimensional Hardly Boys storyline.

MOTY is subjective. People tuned out by the hundreds of thousands. It is perfectly fine to like things that turn other people away. You kind of have to know what that feels like if you like the clown crew.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> Keep living in the past. The one trick ponies showed people everything they are capable of doing. No one wants to see another round of "choose me as your friend/partner" one-dimensional Hardly Boys storyline.
> 
> MOTY is subjective. People tuned out by the hundreds of thousands. It is perfectly fine to like things that turn other people away. You kind of have to know what that feels like if you like the clown crew.


Nah, the Elite consist of draws, and the majority of wrestling fans want to see them back in AEW (along with CM Punk too).

They built this company, and they have a big passionate following too


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, the Elite consist of draws, and the majority of wrestling fans want to see them back in AEW (along with CM Punk too).
> 
> They built this company, and they have a big passionate following too


Most wrestling fans DO NOT watch the product. That is an objective fact.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> Their trios matches did tank ratings and a tease for their supposed "triumphant" return was met with a popcorn fart.


Kenny returning popped a 100k viewers. Trios matches being inherently stupid and incessantly long lost 90k of those.

If they are such shitty draws, then why isn’t Punk the one in the highest rated quarter hours of the highest rated shows..?


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> Keep living in the past. The one trick ponies showed people everything they are capable of doing. No one wants to see another round of "choose me as your friend/partner" one-dimensional Hardly Boys storyline.
> 
> MOTY is subjective. People tuned out by the hundreds of thousands. It is perfectly fine to like things that turn other people away. You kind of have to know what that feels like if you like the clown crew.


Tell me more how Bryan Danielson is a massive draw, despite him losing 200k viewers from one quarter to the next, while arguing that Kenny is such an anti-draw. 🙄

And it is noted how you again use Cornette’s ignorant argument that they lose HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of viewers, when they were a net positive 10k viewers over a 30min quarter hour.

You know: as opposed to the loss of 196k viewers that Bryan saw despite his oh so serious style that is made for casual observers.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Kenny returning popped a 100k viewers. Trios matches being inherently stupid and incessantly long lost 90k of those.
> 
> If they are such shitty draws, then why isn’t Punk the one in the highest rated quarter hours of the highest rated shows..?


Again, they tuned into see what he would be doing, then promptly tuned back out.

Now, I am not a Kenny fan but I can admit that IF Kenny had good, consistent booking that I do believe he would be a decent to good draw. I wanted them to do that when he won the title but they had him goof around with the Hardlys and "69 me Don." If Punk had come in and actually been a centerpiece of the show, he likely (though not for certain) would have drawn more. He DID get them their first million dollar gate though.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Tell me more how Bryan Danielson is a massive draw, despite him losing 200k viewers from one quarter to the next, while arguing that Kenny is such an anti-draw. 🙄
> 
> And it is noted how you again use Cornette’s ignorant argument that they lose HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of viewers, when they were a net positive 10k viewers over a 30min quarter hour.
> 
> You know: as opposed to the loss of 196k viewers that Bryan saw despite his oh so serious style that is made for casual observers.


Yes, Danielson's booking has been atrocious since they formed the BCC and the vast majority of Danielson fans are very annoyed by it. The booking is the consistent awful thing between Kenny, Danielson, and Punk.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> Again, they tuned into see what he would be doing l, then promptly tuned back out.
> 
> Now, I am not a Kenny fan but I can admit that IF Kenny had good, consistent booking that I do believe he would be a decent to good draw. I wanted them to do that when he won the title but they had him goof around with the Hardlys and "69 me Don." If Punk had come in and actually been a centerpiece of the show, he likely (though not for certain) would have drawn more. He DID get them their first million dollar gate though.


And by the end, he couldn’t move more tickets vs Moxley than Page moved vs Moxley…in a smaller building and higher priced ticket. Wanna explain..?


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> And by the end, he couldn’t move more tickets vs Moxley than Page moved vs Moxley…in a smaller building and higher priced ticket. Wanna explain..?


Yes, bad booking has made the stars that came in seem like just other guys.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> Again, they tuned into see what he would be doing, then promptly tuned back out.
> 
> Now, I am not a Kenny fan but I can admit that IF Kenny had good, consistent booking that I do believe he would be a decent to good draw. I wanted them to do that when he won the title but they had him goof around with the *Hardlys and "69 me Don."* If Punk had come in and actually been a centerpiece of the show, he likely (though not for certain) would have drawn more. He DID get them their first million dollar gate though.


Who are those guys?

They don't exist.

The only guys that Kenny Omega has actually hung out with on TV over the past few years are Cody Rhodes (within AEW's 1st year), Adam Page, the Young Bucks, Adam Cole, Don Callis, Riho (a few times early on), KENTA (twice), Brandon Cutler, and Michael Nakazawa.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Who are those guys?
> 
> They don't exist.
> 
> The only guys that Kenny Omega has actually hung out with on TV over the past few years are Cody Rhodes (within AEW's 1st year), Adam Page, the Young Bucks, Adam Cole, Don Callis, Riho (a few times early on), KENTA (twice), Brandon Cutler, and Michael Nakazawa.


Dude, you know how nicknames work. No need to act like a child sticking its fingers in its ears. You DO know that the names you listed are not their ACTUAL names in most cases either right?


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> Yes, bad booking has made the stars that came in seem like just other guys.


Bad booking by Tony Khan, so this brings about another question: why do you keep insisting it was just the Bucks refusing to put over FTR?

I get that the Bucks fucking suck and do love to play in their tiny circle, but top guys avoiding each other to avoid having one person or team lose seems like a TK thing more than anyone else. The mark genuinely believes guys can’t lose to other top guys without being ruined.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Bad booking by Tony Khan, so this brings about another question: why do you keep insisting it was just the Bucks refusing to put over FTR?
> 
> I get that the Bucks fucking suck and do love to play in their tiny circle, but top guys avoiding each other to avoid having one person or team lose seems like a TK thing more than anyone else. The mark genuinely believes guys can’t lose to other top guys without being ruined.


If Tony believed that he would not have Danielson losing to everyone.

I am sure it is probably a combination of the Hardly's pushing for Tony to do the trios crap vs the match the fans were calling for as well as Tony being a bad booker, but ultimately it IS Tony's call and fault the booking ended up the way it did.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> If Tony believed that he would not have Danielson losing to everyone.
> 
> I am sure it is probably a combination of the Hardly's pushing for Tony to do the trios crap vs the match the fans were calling for as well as Tony being a bad booker, but ultimately it IS Tony's call and fault the booking ended up the way it did.


Ok cool. I don’t like the Bucks personally, but I never got the sense they were trying to derail FTR. I just think TK sucks as a Booker. Think about how long he’s avoided Mox and Page. Page and MJF. Cody and anyone of substance after MJF. Never uses a top heel costing an equally over babyface a title match or #1 contender match to jumpstart a program.

He books like wrestling stuck in the 80s when you only got to see very predictable matches.


----------



## .christopher.

Fearless Viper said:


> What's even funnier is that there are some people that actually believe that.


You can only help Tony's learnt from Bischoff's mistakes.


----------



## 3venflow

Tickets for last week's shows c/o WrestleTix.

*AEW Presents Dynamite
Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 7:00 pm
Chartway Arena, Norfolk, VA*

Tickets Distributed => 3,431

(Meltzer said 3,000 paid in the WON)

*AEW Presents Rampage
Fri • Oct 28 • 8:00 PM
Mohegan Sun Arena, Uncasville, CT*

Tickets Distributed => 4,030

-

This week's below. For the second week running, Rampage could outsell Dynamite.

*All Elite Wrestling Dynamite
Wed • Nov 02 • 7:00 PM
Chesapeake Employers Insurance Arena, Baltimore, MD*

Available Tickets => 844
Current Setup/Capacity => 3,443
Tickets Distributed => 2,599

*AEW Presents Rampage
Fri • Nov 04 • 8:00 PM
Boardwalk Hall, Atlantic City, NJ*

Available Tickets => 1,985
Current Setup/Capacity => 4,731
Tickets Distributed => 2,746


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 378,000
18-49: 0.12

Lowest viewership since July and lowest key demo since August. World Series and NBA dominated the night and also impacted Smackdown on FS1 (835k/0.23).

Rampage ranked #27 on cable, Smackdown #5.

*Last two months*

10/21: 480,000 / 0.13
10/14: 458,000 / 0.17
10/7: 404,000 / 0.13
9/30: 472,000 / 0.16
9/23: 522,000 / 0.17 (Grand Slam)
9/16: 470,000 / 0.14
9/9: 429,000 / 0.14
9/2: 485,000 / 0.16


----------



## Geeee

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewers: 378,000
> 18-49: 0.12
> 
> Lowest viewership since July and lowest key demo since August. World Series dominated the night and also impacted Smackdown on FS1 (835k/0.23).
> 
> *Last two months*
> 
> 10/21: 480,000 / 0.13
> 10/14: 458,000 / 0.17
> 10/7: 404,000 / 0.13
> 9/30: 472,000 / 0.16
> 9/23: 522,000 / 0.17 (Grand Slam)
> 9/16: 470,000 / 0.14
> 9/9: 429,000 / 0.14
> 9/2: 485,000 / 0.16


in terms of the card, this was pretty much an episode of AEW Dark and Moxley wasn't added until the last minute.


----------



## DammitChrist

Dynamite beating Smackdown in overall viewership is a bingo card that I didn't see coming; but it's quite satisfying to see nonetheless


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587841212458754048


----------



## rich110991

Guys, I’m in the UK so forgive me for not catching on sooner, but am I right that RAW and SD are on free TV? And Dynamite isn’t?!


----------



## 3venflow

Appears that Battle of the Belts is on the 2023 schedule, so Warner must be happy enough with what it's doing. I wish they'd change the concept though. Dynamite is 'Battle of the Belts' most weeks lately.

BOTB 5 will be part of AEW's Portland debut in January, paired with a live Rampage.


----------



## One Shed

rich110991 said:


> Guys, I’m in the UK so forgive me for not catching on sooner, but am I right that RAW and SD are on free TV? And Dynamite isn’t?!


RAW and Dynamite are both on cable stations here, Smackdown is on free broadcast TV.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588263500853698561


----------



## DammitChrist

Huh, I guess they just needed to advertise Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia in a match then.

After all, they were part of the highest rated quarterly segment last week


----------



## Kishido

Colt Cabana and Jeff Jarrett are the game changers as it seems


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 911,000
18-49: 0.29

#3 on cable despite the demo drop, behind NBA which dominated. World Series on network TV killed everything on cable, with 11.8m viewers and 2.78 in the key demo.

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

10/26: 997,000 / 0.31
10/18: 752,000 / 0.26
10/12: 983,000 / 0.32
10/5: 1,038,000 / 0.33
9/28: 990,000 / 0.34
9/21: 1,039,000 / 0.35
9/14: 1,175,000 / 0.39
9/7: 1,035,000 / 0.38


----------



## RainmakerV2

Not to worry. They'll be over a mil every week from now on as long as DOUBLE J JEFF JARRETT is on the show.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588269778871148544


----------



## Joe Gill

besides mjf (who wasnt even on the show) is there any reason/storyline to even tune in anymore?
Is it to see 65 year old Jeff Jarrett? Is it to see a ROH tv title matchup? Is it to see Colt Cabana? Is it to see Marina Shafir? 
TK is the worst fucking booker in wrestling history. All that talent he paid for...yet cant help himself but to put on an Indy show.


----------



## Kentucky34

They need a Seth Rollins to push their numbers well over 1 million.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

LMAOOOO 


M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588263500853698561


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

nnnnnn


RainmakerV2 said:


> Not to worry. They'll be over a mil every week from now on as long as DOUBLE J JEFF JARRETT is on the show.


I wonder if Tony is supplying the guitars


----------



## NathanMayberry

I still don’t understand how or why this guy continues to sign more people. 

He can’t even book a show that keeps his current talent on tv regularly and he just keeps adding more and more. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## La Parka

Probably one of those weeks, where its a benefit if less people watched your TV show.

Awful episode last night.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Really bad. Especially that demo. .20's is danger territory.


----------



## DammitChrist

Kentucky34 said:


> They need a Seth Rollins to push their numbers well over 1 million.


Hey, look at the bright side though:

At least this week's episode of Dynamite still managed to beat Smackdown's ratings from last Friday (where they lost 1.4 million viewers)


----------



## CMPunkRock316

La Parka said:


> Probably one of those weeks, where its a benefit if less people watched your TV show.
> 
> Awful episode last night.


It was a subpar episode and I am one of the most pro-AEW fans om here.

No MJF. Wardlow barely on. WTF!


----------



## The XL 2

The show was fucking horrendous. The decision to put Wardlow on ice for months after he beat MJF was catastrophic.


----------



## Irish Jet

Deserved much worse tbh.

What a debacle this company is.


----------



## DammitChrist

The XL 2 said:


> The show was fucking horrendous. The decision to put Wardlow on ice for months after he beat MJF was catastrophic.


Nah, the decision to not feature him much on TV is a good one, and everything is fine because of that smart booking decision.



Irish Jet said:


> Deserved much worse tbh.
> 
> What a debacle this company is.


Nah, the company is actually growing each year, and they're succeeding now due to their entertaining product


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

DammitChrist has to be Dave Meltzer


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, look at the bright side though:
> 
> At least this week's episode of Dynamite still managed to beat Smackdown's ratings from last Friday (where they lost 1.4 million viewers)


Reigns doesn't draw


----------



## Irish Jet

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> DammitChrist has to be Dave Meltzer


Even he said the show was bad. He’s Tony.


----------



## Irish Jet

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, the decision to not feature him much on TV is a good one, and everything is fine because of that smart booking decision.
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, the company is actually growing each year, and they're succeeding now due to their entertaining product


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DC is truly the white knight for the fair maiden that is AEW. 😂


----------



## bdon

NathanMayberry said:


> I still don’t understand how or why this guy continues to sign more people.
> 
> He can’t even book a show that keeps his current talent on tv regularly and he just keeps adding more and more.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because he is a fucking mark that only thinks of “how awesome would it be to see Superman fight The Incredible Hulk on TV!?!?”

He has the money to make it happen, but when people ask him why they’re fighting to build the big movie event, he has no logical reason for why it would happen, “but wouldn’t it be coolllll!?”


----------



## Itiswhatitis

Ratings were awful and close to 800k. The show is suffering with having many vanilla characters. It'll only get worse at this pace 😱


----------



## Scuba Steve

Itiswhatitis said:


> Ratings were awful and close to 800k. The show is suffering with having many vanilla characters. It'll only get worse at this pace 😱




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588263500853698561
911k is not close to 800k.


----------



## DammitChrist

Scuba Steve said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588263500853698561
> 911k is not close to 800k.


If anything, Smackdown's ratings from last Friday was closer to 800 K (even with Dynamite's dip for this week).


----------



## 3venflow

Live sport obviously plays a part this time of the year (look at RAW's number on Monday), but they have suffered more in terms of viewers in the past.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588270264177295360


----------



## IronMan8

New demo gods? The Elite.

The demo has declined over 2 months while total viewers remains steady. You know what that means... older viewership is booming!

From where do you gain older wrestling viewers?

WWE.

That's right, AEW's booming older viewership represents dissatisfied WWE viewers who dislike HHH and his NXT booking, so they're turning to AEW.

This smaller demo is therefore evidence that AEW is growing


----------



## CivilMan61

AEW is solid but nothing special.


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

3venflow said:


> Live sport obviously plays a part this time of the year (look at RAW's number on Monday), but they have suffered more in terms of viewers in the past.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588270264177295360


Is it really fair compare the current ratings to 2019 and 2020? They had to go against NXT back then which factored into the ratings drop. There is no more head to head competition with another wrestling show. They didn't have Danielson either back then.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Six months ago that same building was packed 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## IronMan8

NathanMayberry said:


> Six months ago that same building was packed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is the ratings thread thank you very much and we've just established that AEW's older audience is booming, so clearly they're just less likely to attend live events past 9pm


----------



## Scuba Steve

NathanMayberry said:


> Six months ago that same building was packed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Those pics aren't even from the same building.


----------



## 3venflow

The Acclaimed showed again how popular they are, reversing a declining trend for the Daddy Ass Birthday Bash. Other than that, the only QH that gained total viewers was the three-way with Shibata's appearance. The show fell incredibly in the main event, when the main event often claws back hour two lost viewers. I'm not sure where the World Series (which did its best rating since 2019 for the no-hitter) and NBA were at that time of the night and if it had any direct impact, but that 18-49 in particular should be a red flag for Tony Khan. The main event tanked in both metrics.


----------



## Not Lying

3venflow said:


> The Acclaimed showed again how popular they are, reversing a declining trend for the Daddy Ass Birthday Bash. Other than that, the only QH that gained total viewers was the three-way with Shibata's appearance. The show fell incredibly in the main event, when the main event often claws back hour two lost viewers. I'm not sure where the World Series (which did its best rating since 2019 for the no-hitter) and NBA were at that time of the night and if it had any direct impact, but that 18-49 in particular should be a red flag for Tony Khan. The main event tanked in both metrics.
> 
> View attachment 137562


Ugh. I feel bad for Joe/Cage.
Two guys who probably haven’t had 1h of TV times
Combined this whole year put in the main event. Obviously not as bad Deonna/Mercedes fiasco. 
TK just doing random matches and announcing them on twitter. Hope he has that bag secured from WB.


----------



## kingfunkel

I'm from England, so I obviously don't know the full story. Did something happen on other channels after the Acclaimed to cause the drop off? 
Or can I put it all on Colt Cabana for tanking the show.


----------



## Joe Gill

AEW is lucky they have a very strong lead in with the big bang theory... the constant tanking of the ratings after first quarter is telling...of those million viewers how many of them actually tuned in to see Dynamite...and how many just had the tv still on after watching bbt? 738k for main event... not surprising at all...when is TK going to get it through his thick head that most fans dont give a shit about ROH tv title?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Scuba Steve said:


> Those pics aren't even from the same building.


They were both taken at the Chesapeake Employers Insurance Arena in Baltimore.


----------



## NathanMayberry

kingfunkel said:


> I'm from England, so I obviously don't know the full story. Did something happen on other channels after the Acclaimed to cause the drop off?
> Or can I put it all on Colt Cabana for tanking the show.


Jericho has reached the point of his career where people change the channel when he's announced.


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> Jericho has reached the point of his career where people change the channel when he's announced.


Sure, that explains why Chris Jericho was part of the highest rated quarterly segment just last week


----------



## Scuba Steve

NathanMayberry said:


> They were both taken at the Chesapeake Employers Insurance Arena in Baltimore.












First image is Moxley from Rampage on 10/28 VS Menard w/Parker. Second Pic is the Baltimore Dynamite show from earlier this year.


----------



## theshape31

Everybody loves The Acclaimed!


----------



## Joe Gill

DammitChrist said:


> Sure, that explains why Chris Jericho was part of the highest rated quarterly segment just last week


you still havent figured out how tv works do you? the first quarter is likely to be the highest rated because of the strong lead in programming from big bang theory...but after that ratings usually begin to crash once people realize they are watching a giant clusterfuck


----------



## IronMan8

Joe Gill said:


> you still havent figured out how tv works do you? the first quarter is likely to be the highest rated because of the strong lead in programming from big bang theory...but after that ratings usually begin to crash once people realize they are watching a giant clusterfuck


If you're going to insult someone for not getting it, then at least demonstrate a kindergarten level of understanding yourself, otherwise you're not keeping up with the rest of us


----------



## Joe Gill

IronMan8 said:


> If you're going to insult someone for not getting it, then at least demonstrate a kindergarten level of understanding yourself, otherwise you're not keeping up with the rest of us


what did I get wrong? Dynamite has had a very common pattern....its start off with its highest quarter and then the ratings decline...by the last quarter they lose 200k viewers usually. Last week Jericho was on the first quarter..which is why he was on the highest rated segment that week. Everything I said is factually correct...you are clearly the one that cant spot the patterns is Dynamites ratings.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 455,000
18-49: 0.14

#20 on cable.

*Last two months*

10/28: 378,000 / 0.12
10/21: 480,000 / 0.13
10/14: 458,000 / 0.17
10/7: 404,000 / 0.13
9/30: 472,000 / 0.16
9/23: 522,000 / 0.17 (Grand Slam)
9/16: 470,000 / 0.14
9/9: 429,000 / 0.14


----------



## Jay Trotter

LOL. Look at all that channel changing at the return of Cabana. In this same spot to start the 2nd hour about 10 weeks ago, Punk vs Moxley did 1.2 million viewers. It's always fun to see Jericho's troll jobs blow up in his face. All this bullshit put into motion by the circle jerk foursome (Elite/Page) over that expendable irrelevant jobber losing his spot in catering. They couldn't bare being without one of their mascots to play with backstage so let's slander the company's biggest star publicly and privately. Did it matter to them Tony wasn't booking Cabana in the six months prior to Punk's arrival? Nope. Now they can share stories about how the Elite's big trio reunion in Aug and Cabana's big return in Nov both lost 150-200K viewers.


----------



## DammitChrist

Jay Trotter said:


> LOL. Look at all that channel changing at the return of Cabana. In this same spot to start the 2nd hour about 10 weeks ago, Punk vs Moxley did 1.2 million viewers. It's always fun to see Jericho's troll jobs blow up in his face. All this bullshit put into motion by the circle jerk foursome (Elite/Page) over that expendable irrelevant jobber losing his spot in catering. They couldn't bare being without one of their mascots to play with backstage so let's slander the company's biggest star publicly and privately. Did it matter to them Tony wasn't booking Cabana in the six months prior to Punk's arrival? Nope. Now they can share stories about how the Elite's big trio reunion in Aug and Cabana's big return in Nov both lost 150-200K viewers.


Nah, the Elite are more than capable of drawing since some of the most watched Dynamite episodes frequently had Kenny Omega and/or the Young Bucks in the highest rated quarterly segments/matches. 

Thankfully, the Elite members are coming back soon to make the product even more entertaining than it is already


----------



## 3venflow

The Pinnacle/Joe vs. Embassy feud has been cold as ice ratings-wise, not too surprising given the heels have been made total gimps losing every match.


----------



## Blonde

Jay Trotter said:


> LOL. Look at all that channel changing at the return of Cabana. In this same spot to start the 2nd hour about 10 weeks ago, Punk vs Moxley did 1.2 million viewers. It's always fun to see Jericho's troll jobs blow up in his face. All this bullshit put into motion by the circle jerk foursome (Elite/Page) over that expendable irrelevant jobber losing his spot in catering. They couldn't bare being without one of their mascots to play with backstage so let's slander the company's biggest star publicly and privately. Did it matter to them Tony wasn't booking Cabana in the six months prior to Punk's arrival? Nope. Now they can share stories about how the Elite's big trio reunion in Aug and Cabana's big return in Nov both lost 150-200K viewers.


Jeribloat surely showed Punk! Lol!

What’s sad is that the Acclaimed increased the ratings in the last quarter of the first hour, actually showing that they are draws and Jeribloat and Cabana tanked it despite booking their shit in a stronger quarter.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Damn ratings aren’t up yet


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 930,000
18-49: 0.32

#6 on cable. Up on last week (which had the World Series on network doing colossal numbers) but still probably impacted a bit by the NBA (which finished #1 and #2). Was the best 18-49 rating in a month.

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

11/2: 911,000 / 0.29
10/26: 997,000 / 0.31
10/18: 752,000 / 0.26
10/12: 983,000 / 0.32
10/5: 1,038,000 / 0.33
9/28: 990,000 / 0.34
9/21: 1,039,000 / 0.35
9/14: 1,175,000 / 0.39


----------



## theshape31

I want to see the quarter hours. I bet the dreadful 9:00-9:30 tanked the show, with a either a leveling off or slight increase during the main event.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Should have advertised Jarrett and had him in like, 4 segments. When will they learn.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 930,000
> 18-49: 0.32
> 
> #6 on cable. Up on last week (which had the World Series on network doing colossal numbers) but still probably impacted a bit by the NBA (which finished #1 and #2). Was the best 18-49 rating in a month.
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 11/2: 911,000 / 0.29
> 10/26: 997,000 / 0.31
> 10/18: 752,000 / 0.26
> 10/12: 983,000 / 0.32
> 10/5: 1,038,000 / 0.33
> 9/28: 990,000 / 0.34
> 9/21: 1,039,000 / 0.35
> 9/14: 1,175,000 / 0.39
> 
> View attachment 138428


not bad


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> Should have advertised *Jarrett and had him in like, 4 segments*. When will they learn.


say sike li’l bro plzzz


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> say sike li’l bro plzzz



Nah mate Double J is the bees knees


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

LifeInCattleClass said:


> say sike li’l bro plzzz


Double J>>>>Wheeler


----------



## hybrid92_

can't even hit a million viewers now. TK needs writers and a booking committee.


----------



## RuthlessAttitude

Looking at those ratings. Khan should just find who on his roster is conservative, who is MAGA and who is liberal. Then have them talk trash to each other about the news for two hours. Throw-in a match or two between the three camps. 

That's where the money is in 2022 😂


----------



## Dr. Middy

Well it's higher than last week. Curious how the quarters are.



RuthlessAttitude said:


> Looking at those ratings. Khan should just find who on his roster is conservative, who is MAGA and who is liberal. Then have them talk trash to each other about the news for two hours. Throw-in a match or two between the three camps.
> 
> That's where the money is in 2022 😂


...Sounds a speed run for me to jump off my roof head first.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> Double J>>>>Wheeler


in AGE

lollll..lol…..

heh…

:-|


----------



## DammitChrist

Wheeler Yuta is the reason why we have wheels in our cars.

What an awesome wrestler that guy truly is nowadays 👏


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Ok who is a subscriber?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590851863292923906


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

DammitChrist said:


>


Don't worry buddy we're here for you


----------



## Scuba Steve

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> Double J>>>>Wheeler


Wheeler out here living rent free in his haters heads. He stays winning 😀


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> View attachment 138510


Jim Cornette and his Cult: “The ‘so-called’ Elite CONTINUUUUEEEEE to lose SEVERAL hundred thousand viewers. I mean, my God! When is Tony going to take these 3 out back and shoot them? And for the love of God, shoot old Haaaaangnaillll while you’re at it. What did you think of these ratings, Briiiiiiannnnn..?”


----------



## CovidFan

I think that quarterly graph will disappoint some


----------



## bdon

Bryan is not worth whatever crazy number he is getting paid. Flat out.


----------



## 3venflow

Some ticket info from the WrestleTix Patreon.

*Final Counts*

10/23 Rampage (Uncasville, CT): 4,030
10/26 Dynamite (Norfolk, VA): 3,431
11/2 Dynamite (Baltimore, MD): 2,732
11/4 Rampage (Atlantic City, NJ): 2,904
11/9 Dynamite (Boston, MA): 3,609

*Rest of 2022*

11/19: 10,494/11,953
11/30: 2,683/3,873
12/7: 2,455/3,524
12/14: 2,932/4,274
12/28: 2,549/3,643 (first count)

12/10 ROH PPV: 1,505/2,505 (first count)

*2023*

1/4: 6,753/8,469
1/6: 1,372/3,058 (presale numbers)
1/11: 6,065/8,941
1/18: 1,592/4,884 (presale numbers)
1/25: 1,558/4,855 (presale numbers)


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> Some ticket info from the WrestleTix Patreon.
> 
> *Final Counts*
> 
> 10/23 Rampage (Uncasville, CT): 4,030
> 10/26 Dynamite (Norfolk, VA): 3,431
> 11/2 Dynamite (Baltimore, MD): 2,732
> 11/4 Rampage (Atlantic City, NJ): 2,904
> 11/9 Dynamite (Boston, MA): 3,609
> 
> *Rest of 2022*
> 
> 11/19: 10,494/11,953
> 11/30: 2,683/3,873
> 12/7: 2,455/3,524
> 12/14: 2,932/4,274
> 12/28: 2,549/3,643 (first count)
> 
> 12/10 ROH PPV: 1,505/2,505 (first count)
> 
> *2023*
> 
> 1/4: 6,753/8,469
> 1/6: 1,372/3,058 (presale numbers)
> 1/11: 6,065/8,941
> 1/18: 1,592/4,884 (presale numbers)
> 1/25: 1,558/4,855 (presale numbers)


TK has killed his company by running it into the ground in the same markets, bending over backwards for certain performers, and killing goodwill.

Way to go, dog wanker! Maybe now you’ll ease off the creative, give the power back to the boys who had you on an upward trajectory, and fuck right off to cashing checks.

…but probably not.


----------



## kingfunkel

What was AEW up against? I know there some kind of sports whether it football or hockey. Which obviously affected the ratings. 

Seemed to be a nice steady rating throughout the show. The last half lost about 100k, which tells you everything you need to know about the booking of Danielson. He was red hot before the BCC and now no one is interested enough to stick around for him. Obviously it had a 1m+ lead in but realistically the audience for the show was 950-860k.

Also fucking Jeff Jarrett. Just why.


----------



## Mr316

bdon said:


> TK has killed his company by running it into the ground in the same markets, bending over backwards for certain performers, and killing goodwill.
> 
> Way to go, dog wanker! Maybe now you’ll ease off the creative, give the power back to the boys who had you on an upward trajectory, and fuck right off to cashing checks.
> 
> …but probably not.


Tony is an idiot. At some point you gotta listen to people around you. He never did. Does he even have a marketing team?


----------



## RuthlessAttitude

Mr316 said:


> Tony is an idiot. At some point you gotta listen to people around you. He never did. Does he even have a marketing team?


The problem with Tony is that he tries to be friends with the fans and performers. Thing is, the fans are divided on what they actually want. He's burnt out goodwill from casuals and now only has the devotees eager and ready for a show of spot based 15 minute matches.

Traditionally a promoter treats the fans like an abused spouse. He/she manipulates them and their emotions, playing bait and switch with the direction of the production. Maintains a small cast list of edgy characters. Then the fan comes back because nothing else offers the same experience and he/she doesn't know what is coming next. 

Khan just cucks for one audience.


----------



## bdon

RuthlessAttitude said:


> The problem with Tony is that he tries to be friends with the fans and performers. Thing is, the fans are divided on what they actually want. He's burnt out goodwill from casuals and now only has the devotees eager and ready for a show of spot based 15 minute matches.
> 
> Traditionally a promoter treats the fans like an abused spouse. He/she manipulates them and their emotions, playing bait and switch with the direction of the production. Maintains a small cast list of edgy characters. Then the fan comes back because nothing else offers the same experience and he/she doesn't know what is coming next.
> 
> Khan just cucks for one audience.


TK is a mark who bought his way into the business, rode the Elite’s coattails to relevancy, and is determined to just fantasy book whatever fucked up ideas his coked out mind can come up with.

I will forever refer to myself as a Little Stinger, so I am fine with his booking. But Tony Khan doesn’t just stop at Sting. Anyone that he ever enjoyed, he is going to buy their services and make them act out how HE thought things should have gone.


----------



## 3venflow

Full Gear is annually the weakest selling PPV, so it'll be interesting to see how this does compared to last year's and other PPVs this year. I'm sure it'll do better than the 2019 and 2020 editions, but what about 2021? This is the first PPV of the post-Punk era. All Out 2020 (90,000 buys) had the same main event as this year's Full Gear.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591826723603025920
*Shoutouts to Britt Baker and Saraya for getting the second highest viewership midway through the show when women's segments and Dynamite in general have been on a massive downward decline.*


----------



## RuthlessAttitude

bdon said:


> TK is a mark who bought his way into the business, rode the Elite’s coattails to relevancy, and is determined to just fantasy book whatever fucked up ideas his coked out mind can come up with.
> 
> I will forever refer to myself as a Little Stinger, so I am fine with his booking. But Tony Khan doesn’t just stop at Sting. Anyone that he ever enjoyed, he is going to buy their services and make them act out how HE thought things should have gone.


Yup. I suppose he doesn't need the money and will break even when all is said and done. Simply because a bunch of conglomerates are hungry for relatively cheap content. Plus the income from toys, merchandise, international distribution, video games, PPV etc. He's finding a lot of wrestlers some work. 

The attendance will gradually drop though, as the predictability and direction of the product becomes ever more obvious. AEW should do OK as a weekly provider of 15 minute mid card 50/50 matches between everybody who is isn't signed to WWE. Doubtful he gives the opposition anything to worry about, unless HHH really fucks up or something unstoppable i.e NWO falls into his lap. 

I'd take a guess AEW leads to the eventual demise of Impact and MLW in the next few years. Via buyouts. As it was with ROH. And how USWA, SMW and ECW died during the Monday Night Wars. Always casualties from two financially strong giants.


----------



## 3venflow

For those interested, a bit of data from WOR:

Dynamite's average DVR increase on its same day rating this year is *18%*.

Rampage's average DVR increase on its same day rating this year is *55%* with lots of people watching the show on Saturday morning. That means, going by the average, the most recent rated show might have had 705,000 cable viewers in total.

So it's not complete disinterest as opposed to just 'not worth watching late at night'. TK should really try and get Rampage on another day, even if the options are limited. Saturday at 8pm sounds nice. Or what about going old school with some morning/lunchtime rasslin' on Saturday?

Speaking of Rampage, the 11/25 Black Friday edition is being preempted to 4pm Eastern due to the NHL.

re: the UK tour, I don't know how much faith to put into this but...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592106594384416774
I'd expect an announcement on Dynamite of where they will run after Tony Schiavone's comments last week.

AO Arena is actually bigger than Wembley Arena but can be scaled for a smaller show. This is the building where the terrorist attack on an Ariana Grande concert happened in 2017. WWE has ran there a lot, originally with a UK-exclusive version of No Mercy 1999 and most recently in November 2021. A show topped by AJ vs. Mox in 2016 drew 13,000. IMPACT also ran there in 2016, drawing 3,500. It can seat as many as 21,000 people, while Wembley Arena has a capacity of 12,500.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

People used to viciously mock TNA and Dixie for the DVR spin. My how the times change.

Well at least people pay to go to AEW shows, unlike 'ol Tits N Ass.


----------



## Scuba Steve

The UK shows will slap. Tony is going to load those shows up and deliver and the crowds will be white hot. 

Can't fn wait.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dub ded


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592249940138676225


----------



## HoneyBee

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dub ded
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592249940138676225


PPVs will always sell well, but they need to improve on the weekly attendance as this revenue will keep the company going as well as give the show a good look on telly. TNA made a loss during the Hogan era as they were doing poor ticket sales when they went on the road. 

They probably get rubbish attendance because they're re-running the same locations. Maybe hit new markets. The UK shows will sell out.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 456,000
18-49: 0.11

Viewership was up on the past two weeks, but the demo slid and pushed Rampage out of the cable top 50 (#55) for what may have been the first time (can't confirm that at the moment). 0.11 is their joint lowest demo for Rampage, tied with two other episodes.

*Last two months*

11/4: 455,000 / 0.14
10/28: 378,000 / 0.12
10/21: 480,000 / 0.13
10/14: 458,000 / 0.17
10/7: 404,000 / 0.13
9/30: 472,000 / 0.16
9/23: 522,000 / 0.17 (Grand Slam)
9/16: 470,000 / 0.14


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewers: 456,000
> 18-49: 0.11
> 
> Viewership was up on the past two weeks, but the demo slid and pushed Rampage out of the cable top 50 (#55) for what may have been the first time (can't confirm that at the moment). 0.11 is their joint lowest demo for Rampage, tied with two other episodes.
> 
> *Last two months*
> 
> 11/4: 455,000 / 0.14
> 10/28: 378,000 / 0.12
> 10/21: 480,000 / 0.13
> 10/14: 458,000 / 0.17
> 10/7: 404,000 / 0.13
> 9/30: 472,000 / 0.16
> 9/23: 522,000 / 0.17 (Grand Slam)
> 9/16: 470,000 / 0.14


YIKES


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewers: 456,000
> 18-49: 0.11
> 
> Viewership was up on the past two weeks, but the demo slid and pushed Rampage out of the cable top 50 (#55) for what may have been the first time (can't confirm that at the moment). 0.11 is their joint lowest demo for Rampage, tied with two other episodes.
> 
> *Last two months*
> 
> 11/4: 455,000 / 0.14
> 10/28: 378,000 / 0.12
> 10/21: 480,000 / 0.13
> 10/14: 458,000 / 0.17
> 10/7: 404,000 / 0.13
> 9/30: 472,000 / 0.16
> 9/23: 522,000 / 0.17 (Grand Slam)
> 9/16: 470,000 / 0.14


yup, bad demo

the kids are going out fridays

seems not all aedub fans are basement dwelling neckbeards xD


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yup, bad demo
> 
> the kids are going out fridays
> 
> seems not all aedub fans are basement dwelling neckbeards xD


Or 48 year olds as some would suggest.


----------



## La Parka

DammitChrist• said:


> I’ll let you all in on a little secret
> 
> Me and 3venflow FaceTime each other in the nude right before the ratings come out and when we see the *amazing *ratings each week for Dynamite we both jerk off and watch each other while doing it
> 
> It’s become a ritual of ours, we are both homosexual and love AEW and we are both in love with Tony Khan
> 
> I hope you can all respect our love for this company


TMI, DC.


----------



## theshape31

La Parka said:


> TMI, DC.


You just got Fake Kane’d, lol.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 818,000
18-49: 0.28

#4 on cable behind NBA. A sharp fall in viewers for the go-home show, while the key demo was down but not to the same degree.

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

11/9: 930,000 / 0.32
11/2: 911,000 / 0.29
10/26: 997,000 / 0.31
10/18: 752,000 / 0.26
10/12: 983,000 / 0.32
10/5: 1,038,000 / 0.33
9/28: 990,000 / 0.34
9/21: 1,039,000 / 0.35


----------



## The real Axel

RIP Dubbalos, it's over.


----------



## CovidFan

Deserved rating. Was the worst show in a while. Next week will certainly pick up with the fall out from Full Gear and MJF doing something whether he wins or loses.


----------



## RainmakerV2

For a go home too? Oh goodness


----------



## Lenny Leonard

Hahahahaha. The hottest wrestling show you guys

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SCJerk/comments/yxhrkp


----------



## VamosRamos




----------



## Mr316

Boom. But hey, I guess I’m just a hater and speaking non sense right? The shows have been a total borefest. Well deserved rating. Important changes have to be made.


----------



## DammitChrist

Lenny Leonard said:


> Hahahahaha. The hottest wrestling show you guys
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SCJerk/comments/yxhrkp


I can't wait to hear your silence when AEW (aka the actual hottest wrestling show) delivers yet another great ppv in 55+ hours from now.

Imagine rooting for the wrestling industry to have a monopoly again due to your strong resentment to having a good, alternative promotion


----------



## Dr. Middy

Full Gear will probably be great, but yeah, not much to say about this. 

OOF moment indeed.


----------



## DammitChrist

Oops, sorry for the double-post. This site is lagging so much atm.


----------



## Dr. Middy

DammitChrist said:


> I can't wait to hear your silence when AEW (aka the actual hottest wrestling show) delivers yet another great ppv in 55+ hours from now.
> 
> Imagine rooting for the wrestling industry to have a monopoly again due to your strong resentment to having a good, alternative promotion


----------



## Hotdiggity11




----------



## RainmakerV2

Mr316 said:


> Boom. But hey, I guess I’m just a hater and speaking non sense right? The shows have been a total borefest. Well deserved rating. Important changes have to be made.



I was gonna say this. The show is soooooo fucking boring. My God. Say what you want about Cody but at least he knew how to create moments, stir shit up. Whether it was the disaster weigh in or the fake retirement or the flaming table, at least there was something to talk about. 

This show is just so fucking boring now. Match, promo, match, promo, match, promo, match. Nothing ever happens, no cliffhangers, it's literally just WWE with smaller crowds and a little better workrrate. I fell asleep last night watching it. Could be because I had my space heater on high and my room was warm af. But like, God damn its such a boring show.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> Boom. But hey, I guess I’m just a hater and speaking non sense right? The shows have been a total borefest. Well deserved rating. Important changes have to be made.


Nah, the go-home episode last night was pretty good.

No big changes need to be made whatsoever.


----------



## theshape31

Dr. Middy said:


> Full Gear will probably be great, but yeah, not much to say about this.
> 
> OOF moment indeed.


OOF?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

This upcoming PPV might have the least hype of any actual AEW PPV [So, including that Forbidden Door and AEW bullshit]. Brutal.


Saraya's return might have had some potential but her brutal first few promos definitely killed that spark.


----------



## Mr316

Hotdiggity11 said:


> This upcoming PPV might have the least hype of any actual AEW PPV [So, including that Forbidden Door and AEW bullshit]. Brutal.


God damn I love when I’m right. And that happens 99.9% of the time. No hype at all. Zero. Nada.


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 818,000
> 18-49: 0.28
> 
> #4 on cable behind NBA. A sharp fall in viewers for the go-home show, while the key demo was down but not to the same degree.
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 11/9: 930,000 / 0.32
> 11/2: 911,000 / 0.29
> 10/26: 997,000 / 0.31
> 10/18: 752,000 / 0.26
> 10/12: 983,000 / 0.32
> 10/5: 1,038,000 / 0.33
> 9/28: 990,000 / 0.34
> 9/21: 1,039,000 / 0.35
> 
> View attachment 139261


It is basically exactly the same degree  12% down for both if I calculated correctly.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> This upcoming PPV might have the least hype of any actual AEW PPV [So, including that Forbidden Door and AEW bullshit]. Brutal.


Nah, it's not really brutal at all considering the fact that Forbidden Door is widely considered to be the best AEW ppv of the year even though various folks never gave that show a chance and resented the whole concept weeks/months before the event even took occurred.

The silence will be deafening once everyone else will be raving about how the awesome quality of the Full Gear ppv by Sunday morning


----------



## CM Dunk05

Not surprised. It’s the same stale shit with very little stories for people to become invested in and tune in for. Hopefully a wake up call and the company can try to correct it before it’s too late


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, it's not really brutal at all considering the fact that Forbidden Door is widely considered to be the best AEW ppv of the year even though various folks never gave that show a chance and resented the whole concept weeks/months before the event even took occurred.
> 
> The silence will be deafening once everyone else will be raving about how the awesome quality of the Full Gear ppv by Sunday morning




This is what denial looks like, fellas.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Hey @IronMan8 . You were saying the other day?!


----------



## Hotdiggity11

King Meltzer hath Spoken. This is definitely not 5 star material.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593357952391389184


----------



## Mr316

AEW is officially TNA 2.0. Congrats Tony you did it!


----------



## Blonde

If you think this is bad, wait until the Elite drop that by another 200k.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Mr316 said:


> AEW is officially TNA 2.0. Congrats Tony you did it!



Oh come on, that would require Jeff Jarret....



Errr, wait what?


----------



## Irish Jet

Death throes.

Honestly everything about AEW has had this negative feel for a while and this rating has been a long time coming. Can't blame a world series or a moved time slot. This is where AEW are as a promotion and it's really bad. Morale has dropped even among their die-hards and there's no way to spin it. 

I think Khan will probably panic and go back to basics after this. Fully expect a Jericho/Omega JAS/Elite feud because that sort of trash is all he knows


----------



## DammitChrist

Rhhodes said:


> If you think this is bad, *wait until the Elite drop that by another 200k.*


Considering the fact that the Elite's return back in early August started their 6+ week streak where Dynamite maintained over 1+ million viewership, the bolded part is confirmed to be completely false.

The Elite will inevitably keep the ratings up and/or steady since many wrestling fans missed them during their absence


----------



## DammitChrist

Irish Jet said:


> Death throes.
> 
> Honestly everything about AEW has had this negative feel for a while and this rating has been a long time coming. Can't blame a world series or a moved time slot. This is where AEW are as a promotion and it's really bad. Morale has dropped even among their die-hards and there's no way to spin it.
> 
> I think Khan will probably panic and go back to basics after this. Fully expect a Jericho/Omega JAS/Elite feud because that sort of trash is all he knows


Nah, last night's episode of Dynamite was pretty good, and the overall product has been consistently entertaining over the past year; so they definitely deserve to have even higher viewership due to their consistency of delivering fun shows on a weekly basis.


----------



## Buhalovski

Looks like AEW will need at least a year coz of the CM Punk fiasco. Hope they can bounce back but so far this is the most boring period since the company started.


----------



## Mr316

This is what happens when you put on the screen a bunch of guys that never drew a dime and never will. This is the result of months of very awful shows. Keep going Tony, give me some Sonjay Dutt and some Dante Martin and some other clowns no one gives a flying fuck about.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Imagine only being 150k up on NXT. Yikes


----------



## Sad Panda

AEW needs to use Saturdays PPV to essentially reset all angles going forward. There needs to be continuity, there needs to be no more ROH, they have to focus on the AEW brand going forward because they no longer have any sense of direction or real identity. 

Yesterdays show was poor. It just felt minor league. Not necessarily the in ring work, but the production, the camera work, the last segment leading into the pay per view was one of the more poorly constructed and executed segments I can remember considering that was the final vision heading into this PPV.

There are going to be ebbs and flows, just like any other company. It’s going to be impotent for Tony Khan to get better, he needs to adjust. I’m not saying it’s desperation time, but to draw that type of audience in your go home show, on top of the piss poor audience that attended the show.. it’s not s good look and has to be alarming.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

"What was once a captivating, trendsetting program has now deteriorated into a cliched, let's be honest, boring snoozefest that is dire need of a knight in shining armor.”


----------



## Mr316

And one more thing, this is not happening because Punk is gone. This is happening because Tony Khan can’t write an entertaining wrestling program to save his life.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Sad Panda said:


> AEW needs to use Saturdays PPV to essentially reset all angles going forward. There needs to be continuity, there needs to be no more ROH, they have to focus on the AEW brand going forward because they no longer have any sense of direction or real identity.
> 
> Yesterdays show was poor. It just felt minor league. Not necessarily the in ring work, but the production, the camera work, the last segment leading into the pay per view was one of the more poorly constructed and executed segments I can remember considering that was the final vision heading into this PPV.
> 
> There are going to be ebbs and flows, just like any other company. It’s going to be impotent for Tony Khan to get better, he needs to adjust. I’m not saying it’s desperation time, but to draw that type of audience in your go home show, on top of the piss poor audience that attended the show.. it’s not s good look and has to be alarming.



It's just a boring TV show. There's no angles or real stories. No sex appeal, no romance. No real heat. Just a bunch of wrestling matches.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Imagine only being 150k up on NXT. Yikes


AEW draws far more than NXT (2.0) 😂

I guarantee that they aren't worried about this week's number (and they shouldn't be either).


----------



## VamosRamos

It's Dynamite time baby


----------



## One Shed

Must have been that weather or big sportsball game right?


----------



## Irish Jet

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, last night's episode of Dynamite was pretty good, and the overall product has been consistently entertaining over the past year; so they definitely deserve to have even higher viewership due to their consistency of delivering fun shows on a weekly basis.


I hope you get the help you need my man. We’re here for you.


----------



## DammitChrist

Sad Panda said:


> AEW needs to use Saturdays PPV to essentially reset all angles going forward. There needs to be continuity, there needs to be no more ROH, they have to focus on the AEW brand going forward because they no longer have any sense of direction or real identity.
> 
> Yesterdays show was poor. It just felt minor league. Not necessarily the in ring work, but the production, the camera work, the last segment leading into the pay per view was one of the more poorly constructed and executed segments I can remember considering that was the final vision heading into this PPV.
> 
> There are going to be ebbs and flows, just like any other company. It’s going to be impotent for Tony Khan to get better, he needs to adjust. I’m not saying it’s desperation time, but to draw that type of audience in your go home show, on top of the piss poor audience that attended the show.. it’s not s good look and has to be alarming.


Nah, they have absolutely no reason to be alarmed at all.

Plus, last time I've checked, there was pretty much no ROH presence last night.

They pretty much 'focused on the AEW brand' last night, which is *exactly *what folks keep wanting here. The *only* ROH presence was probably its world title in the opening tag match, but that contest featured 4 of AEW's prominent stars; so that's not really a good example. Plus, Bandido is officially an AEW talent now. None of the matches last night featured a ROH name.

It's almost like these random ratings fluctuation happen no matter which talents get advertised or showcased each week.

Finally, the Dynamite episode was pretty good for a go-home show, so there was nothing 'poor' about it.


----------



## RainmakerV2

What Khan needs to do is stop spending millions on talent he doesn't use, and see how much it would cost to buy Heymans contract out, put him in charge of day to day booking. Hire Bischoff to run TV production, and get the fuck out the way.


----------



## Blonde

DammitChrist said:


> Considering the fact that the Elite's return back in early August started their 6+ week where Dynamite maintained over 1+ million viewership, the bolded part is confirmed to be completely false.
> 
> The Elite will inevitably keep the ratings up and/or steady since many wrestling fans missed them during their absence


They objectively had nothing to do with getting 1+ million viewers LOL. They couldn’t even keep them!


----------



## DammitChrist

VamosRamos said:


> It's Dynamite time baby
> View attachment 139277


Yep, turning off or changing the channel is what numerous fans have been doing ever since his megapush started in 2014.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Hotdiggity11 said:


> King Meltzer hath Spoken. This is definitely not 5 star material.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593357952391389184














Hotdiggity11 said:


> Oh come on, that would require Jeff Jarret....
> 
> 
> 
> Errr, wait what?


When JJ comes in, death is always near.


----------



## VamosRamos

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, turning off or changing the channel is what numerous fans have been doing ever since his megapush started in 2014.


----------



## Mr316

Can’t wait to see the quarter hours bay bay!!!


----------



## FeelingUcey

Yikes, that's a terrible rating. I gave up on watching live myself, every now and I might DVR through stuff, or watching stuff on Youtube. No CM Punk and all of the ROH stuff has kinda killed my interest, hopefully TK realizes the ROH stuff is not good for business


----------



## Missionary Chief

I tried to watch it but had to shut it down midway through the trios dance contest.


----------



## DammitChrist

FeelingUcey said:


> Yikes, that's a terrible rating. I gave up on watching live myself, every now and I might DVR through stuff, or watching stuff on Youtube. No CM Punk and all of the ROH stuff has kinda killed my interest, hopefully TK realizes the ROH stuff is not good for business


There was *no* ROH presence at all since every (signed) AEW wrestler were competing last night, and yet this random ratings dip still occurred.

They draw solid-to-good TV ratings no matter what promotion/background that talents have in multiple weeks.


----------



## Mr316

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593343856296484864


----------



## Christopher Near

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, turning off or changing the channel is what numerous fans have been doing ever since his megapush started in 2014.


The ratings say other wise. Explain why his match with riddle on smackdown drew 2.2 million? According to you the fans changed the channel but where's the proof


----------



## Serpico Jones

Jim Cornette was right about all of these fucking jabronis. Tony’s only hope right now is to give up booking and hire someone else to do it. 

Maybe William Regal can do it. Maybe you bring in Bischoff as a consultant. You’ll lose the jabroni flip monkeys but no one pays to watch them anyways.


----------



## Irish Jet

It has been coming for a long time. Attendances always drop off first but the ratings are never too far behind. This will not be an isolated case and there's no quick fix. 

Unless Khan is willing to humble himself and hand the book to a professional then this slide isn't going to stop. I think it would have happened much sooner had Punk/Danielson not came in to bring an injection of energy - The initial enthusiasm was always going to die off but they had so many opportunities to establish a creative direction and blown it every time. There's no ambition with the booking, no story, no excitement. 

It's sad. With the financial backing and the TV deal this promotion had the potential to be what professional wrestling was crying out for but instead it's turned out to be the vanity project of a super fan.


----------



## Irish Jet

Mr316 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593343856296484864


I'm only seeing this now. Holy fuck Moxley is a disgrace.


----------



## Missionary Chief

What about those new platform boots MJF had on. Those have to be 3" lifts.


----------



## Christopher Near

If everything Is fine I wonder why some folk on here can't explain the decline in ratings


----------



## Mr316

Serpico Jones said:


> Jim Cornette was right about all of these fucking jabronis. Tony’s only hope right now is to give up booking and hire someone else to do it.
> 
> Maybe William Regal can do it. Maybe you bring in Bischoff as a consultant. You’ll lose the jabroni flip monkeys but no one pays to watch them anyways.


They desperately need a lethal dose of Russo injected into this show.


----------



## VamosRamos




----------



## RainmakerV2

Mr316 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593343856296484864



Moxley was a fucking embarrassment last night.


----------



## Sad Panda

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, they have absolutely no reason to be alarmed at all.
> 
> Plus, last time I've checked, there was pretty much no ROH presence last night.
> 
> They pretty much 'focused on the AEW brand' last night, which is *exactly *what folks keep wanting here. The *only* ROH presence was probably its world title in the opening tag match, but that contest featured 4 of AEW's prominent stars; so that's not really a good example. Plus, Bandido is officially an AEW talent now. None of the matches last night featured a ROH name.
> 
> It's almost like these random ratings fluctuation happen no matter which talents get advertised or showcased each week.
> 
> Finally, the Dynamite episode was pretty good for a go-home show, so there was nothing 'poor' about it.


You’re right, last night they did keep the ROH to a minimum, which was nice. But I think you’d agree that the last few weeks have been dominated by ROH content. One week we’ll see Dalton Castle and then we’ll never see him again. We’ll see the Gates of Agony and then we won’t see them for 2-3 weeks. It’s that type of inconsistency that will turn off the viewer.

Listen, I was a fan of the show “The Office”. Could you imagine if one week we get Dwight Shrute, and Michael Scott as priority characters and then they’re not seen again for 2 weeks? It gives the viewer a hard time investing in the characters when they’re not consistently on the show. 

Outside of Mox, Jericho, and Toni Storm you don’t know who your getting week to week. I’m sure statistics would prove that wrestler usage is quite sporadic… that can’t happen.


----------



## DammitChrist

Christopher Near said:


> The ratings say other wise. Explain why his match with riddle on smackdown drew 2.2 million? According to you the fans changed the channel but where's the proof


That's obviously because Matt Riddle was easily one of the most over babyfaces on the roster earlier this June (along with Cody Rhodes and Randy Orton) before he inevitably got buried by the current Universal Champion.

You're acting like I'm supposed to be impressed by that number for that bore's match. If anything, that was a pretty good sign for Riddle since he was red hot with momentum earlier this summer (before that loss). 

Plus, you do realize that Ricochet vs Sami Zayn (for the Intercontinental title) drew the same rating earlier this year on Smackdown, right?

That's a sad sign that he's been overpushed this hard for 8+ years, but yet he can't even outdraw 2 midcarders on his own show; which reinforces the fact that he's not a big TV draw at all.


----------



## RaohNorthStar

They need to stop pushing crappy women and give Shida the belt back!


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> I was gonna say this. The show is soooooo fucking boring. My God. Say what you want about Cody but at least he knew how to create moments, stir shit up. Whether it was the disaster weigh in or the fake retirement or the flaming table, at least there was something to talk about.
> 
> This show is just so fucking boring now. Match, promo, match, promo, match, promo, match. Nothing ever happens, no cliffhangers, it's literally just WWE with smaller crowds and a little better workrrate. I fell asleep last night watching it. Could be because I had my space heater on high and my room was warm af. But like, God damn its such a boring show.


It’s felt like a cheap knockoff of WWE since November last year, starting with the very first Dynamite following Full Gear where we saw AEW actually start off the Fallout show with a promo. Only the top star gets attention creatively, and everyone is treated as unimportant to the overall production.

What is worse is TK has a penchant for throwing a tantrum and not trying to adjust when he has a wrench threw into his game plans. Punk threw a massive one in there and likely destroyed a year’s worth of creative TK had in store for his favorite.

This is TK no longer caring about the product, wasting away weeks and months to get to the next part in his creative.

I hate that fucking dog wanker.


Sad Panda said:


> AEW needs to use Saturdays PPV to essentially reset all angles going forward. There needs to be continuity, there needs to be no more ROH, they have to focus on the AEW brand going forward because they no longer have any sense of direction or real identity.
> 
> Yesterdays show was poor. It just felt minor league. Not necessarily the in ring work, but the production, the camera work, the last segment leading into the pay per view was one of the more poorly constructed and executed segments I can remember considering that was the final vision heading into this PPV.
> 
> There are going to be ebbs and flows, just like any other company. It’s going to be impotent for Tony Khan to get better, he needs to adjust. I’m not saying it’s desperation time, but to draw that type of audience in your go home show, on top of the piss poor audience that attended the show.. it’s not s good look and has to be alarming.


TK isn’t going to adjust. He never adjusts. His plans got ripped up by Punk, and his dream was always to bring Punk back to wrestling. He did it and had it ripped from him.

The guy does not care anymore.


----------



## Irish Jet

Mr316 said:


> They desperately need a lethal dose of Russo injected into this show.


Britt Baker vs Saraya is now Adam Cole on a pole BAY BAY!


----------



## Christopher Near

DammitChrist said:


> That's obviously because Matt Riddle was easily one of the most over babyfaces on the roster earlier this June (along with Cody Rhodes and Randy Orton) before he inevitably got buried by the current Universal Champion.
> 
> You're acting like I'm supposed to be impressed by that number for that bore's match. If anything, that was a pretty good sign for Riddle since he was red hot with momentum earlier this summer (before that loss).
> 
> Plus, you do realize that Ricochet vs Sami Zayn (for the Intercontinental title) drew the same rating earlier this year on Smackdown, right?
> 
> That's a sad sign that he's been overpushed this hard for 8+ years, but yet he can't even outdraw 2 midcarders on his own show; which reinforces the fact that he's not a big TV draw at all.


So how come riddles other matches didn't do that number?

Who in wrestling draws better? Moxley sure isn't lol


----------



## DammitChrist

Irish Jet said:


> It has been coming for a long time. Attendances always drop off first but the ratings are never too far behind. This will not be an isolated case and there's no quick fix.
> 
> Unless Khan is willing to humble himself and hand the book to a professional then this slide isn't going to stop. I think it would have happened much sooner had Punk/Danielson not came in to bring an injection of energy - The initial enthusiasm was always going to die off but they had so many opportunities to establish a creative direction and blown it every time. There's no ambition with the booking, no story, no excitement.
> 
> It's sad. With the financial backing and the TV deal this promotion had the potential to be what professional wrestling was crying out for but instead it's turned out to be the vanity project of a super fan.


What?

Where was this energy when Dynamite was consistently maintaining 1+ million viewers for 6+ weeks not too long ago? 😂

We're seriously going to ignore the fact that their TV ratings in 2022 are much more stable than last year?

No, they shouldn't do any of the quoted ideas at all. I guarantee that the ppv will silence a lot of these unnecessary suggestions.


----------



## RainmakerV2

bdon said:


> It’s felt like a cheap knockoff of WWE since November last year, starting with the very first Dynamite following Full Gear where we saw AEW actually start off the Fallout show with a promo. Only the top star gets attention creatively, and everyone is treated as unimportant to the overall production.
> 
> What is worse is TK has a penchant for throwing a tantrum and not trying to adjust when he has a wrench threw into his game plans. Punk threw a massive one in there and likely destroyed a year’s worth of creative TK had in store for his favorite.
> 
> This is TK no longer caring about the product, wasting away weeks and months to get to the next part in his creative.
> 
> I hate that fucking dog wanker.
> 
> TK isn’t going to adjust. He never adjusts. His plans got ripped up by Punk, and his dream was always to bring Punk back to wrestling. He did it and had it ripped from him.
> 
> The guy does not care anymore.



Like I said, take that 10 million you're using in ROH and talents who never see TV and buy out Heymans contract, give him the book, and hire Bischoff to run production. He has so much money to waste on shit the company doesn't need but refuses to delegate. A sign of a bad leader is refusing to delegate even when it's clear you're over your head.


----------



## Mr316

RainmakerV2 said:


> Like I said, take that 10 million you're using in ROH and talents who never see TV and buy out Heymans contract, give him the book, and hire Bischoff to run production. He has so much money to waste on shit the company doesn't need but refuses to delegate. A sign of a bad leader is refusing to delegate even when it's clear you're over your head.


Very true.


----------



## VamosRamos

This was the best episode in the history of Dynamite since last week 

Unfortunately, the bowling finals from Laos took away some viewers


----------



## Blonde

Sad Panda said:


> Outside of Mox, Jericho, and Toni Storm you don’t know who your getting week to week.


And knowing you’re getting Jeribloat every week makes things worse.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593343856296484864


Yea, that Kenny Olivier loser account has negative credibility; so he's a poor source since he's a well-known troll on Twitter.


----------



## Sad Panda

bdon said:


> TK isn’t going to adjust. He never adjusts. His plans got ripped up by Punk, and his dream was always to bring Punk back to wrestling. He did it and had it ripped from him.
> 
> The guy does not care anymore.


I hope you’re wrong man. What drives me mad is he has the people in place internally to get them to where they need to be. Legit wrestling minds that have scoured the landscape for decades. He needs to give them the reigns. 

I love wrestling, so I really want this to continue to be successful. I am starting to see what you’re saying though. Ever since the first punk injury, shit has just been all over the place. Then the Punk scrum bombshell completely blew the doors off of the company and they’ve had a hard time recovering.


----------



## VamosRamos

Rhhodes said:


> And knowing you’re getting Jeribloat every week makes things worse.


Don't you ever talk like that about our intergalactic wizard that promises pain to his enemies


----------



## DammitChrist

Irish Jet said:


> I'm only seeing this now. Holy fuck Moxley is a disgrace.





RainmakerV2 said:


> Moxley was a fucking embarrassment last night.


Jon Moxley has been the overall wrestling MVP in 2022 so far with his great catalogue of bangers, his consistently good promo work, and his reliability as well; so he is very far from an embarrassing disgrace.

He's only just NOW beginning to wind down due to fatigue, and he's still doing a really good job too.

The guy is overdue from taking a well-deserved vacation


----------



## Irish Jet

DammitChrist said:


> What?
> 
> Where was this energy when Dynamite was consistently maintaining 1+ million viewers for 6+ weeks not too long ago? 😂
> 
> We're seriously going to ignore the fact that their TV ratings in 2022 are much more stable than last year?
> 
> No, they shouldn't do any of the quoted ideas at all. I guarantee that the ppv will silence a lot of these unnecessary suggestions.


Please stop quoting me.


----------



## Geeee

this is certainly a rating that has earned GIFs of The Bloodline


----------



## DammitChrist

Christopher Near said:


> So how come riddles other matches didn't do that number?
> 
> Who in wrestling draws better? Moxley sure isn't lol


*Nobody* in wrestling is a big TV draw.

It's a collective/group effort instead of just one individual.

I honestly thought this fact has already been established for several years now.



Irish Jet said:


> Please stop quoting me.


Nah, I asked reasonable questions.


----------



## VamosRamos

Geeee said:


> this is certainly a rating that has earned GIFs of The Bloodline


Welcome to the Dark Side Uce


----------



## bdon

Sad Panda said:


> I hope you’re wrong man. What drives me mad is he has the people in place internally to get them to where they need to be. Legit wrestling minds that have scoured the landscape for decades. He needs to give them the reigns.
> 
> I love wrestling, so I really want this to continue to be successful. I am starting to see what you’re saying though. Ever since the first punk injury, shit has just been all over the place. Then the Punk scrum bombshell completely blew the doors off of the company and they’ve had a hard time recovering.


They never even attempted to recover. TK’s entire gameplan after Punk’s initial injury could was to put the title on Moxley, let Moxley have some heatless. matches with no story investment, put the title back on Punk, and continue where he left off 3 months prior.

Punk failed him again, and he’s not made a single effort to do anything about it. The All Out situation happened over 2 months ago. Can you imagine any successful booker just throwing his hands in the air and giving up, putting a fucking pause button on creative?

I have been accused of being an AEW shill in the past. This is it for AEW. They’re done if Warner doesn’t pressure Tony to make changes in the creative or take over things themselves. Done. D-O-N-E.


----------



## DammitChrist

bdon said:


> They never even attempted to recover. TK’s entire gameplan after Punk’s initial injury could was to put the title on Moxley, let Moxley have some heatless. matches with no story investment, put the title back on Punk, and continue where he left off 3 months prior.
> 
> Punk failed him again, and he’s not made a single effort to do anything about it. The All Out situation happened over 2 months ago. Can you imagine any successful booker just throwing his hands in the air and giving up, putting a fucking pause button on creative?
> 
> I have been accused of being an AEW shill in the past. *This is it for AEW. They’re done if Warner doesn’t pressure Tony to make changes in the creative or take over things themselves. Done. D-O-N-E.*


AEW succeeding as a big wrestling company (drawing good TV numbers too like they've already been doing) for 20+ more years confirmed.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Hotdiggity11 said:


> King Meltzer hath Spoken. This is definitely not 5 star material.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593357952391389184


----------



## bdon

DammitChrist said:


> AEW succeeding as a big wrestling company (drawing good TV numbers too like they've already been doing) for 20+ more years confirmed.


That may happen, but the potential for them to ever compete with Raw is long gone. Cody left, because he had booking power taken from him, stating that he was gonna save some ideas for his next employer.

Coming out of the pandemic, TK had to rely on Omega to carry him out of the doldrums they were in ratings-wise. Under Omega, TK was able to focus on more of the show top to bottom, and they found momentum.

Who is going to provide that momentum boost this time? The Elite aren’t going to trust Khan to give him their best ideas. MJF‘s title reign is doomed to fail given TK spent the last year only doing storyboard work for Punk, so there are no threats built up in the company.

They might exist, but they are done as a threat. More importantly, I think Punk leaving broke TK’s heart, and he has no motivation to continue “working” for the next angle. AEW is done…because Tony Khan is done with it.


----------



## VamosRamos

Dave was hacked. The number is good and it's certainly better than expected


----------



## Wolf Mark

With all the means AEW has, it is actually frustrating to watch. The thing is, it would be easy to turn it around. It's so damn obvious. I would love to just grab that roster and do awesome shit with it. Maybe do one interesting storyline, create a mystery around it, then add layers. Then every wrestlers that are involved can refresh their characters and get a different role. That's something AEW should do better, identify what you have and give the wrestlers a clearer role. I hate how one day a guy is a A player, then another day he's a B player. You have to have your top guys and make them win more than most and then you have your mid carders and low carders. When you have a big star like Danielson and you have him lose all the time, it sends such a confusing message. Like what is he supposed to be? Don't know. There is not enough care of how you handle your talent.


----------



## Mr316

AEW is doomed as long as Tony keeps booking 5-6 15 to 20 minute matches on Dynamite.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Anyone here a subscriber? Lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593376343575605248


----------



## Irish Jet

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Anyone here a subscriber? Lol
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593376343575605248


Poor MJF.

He may as well be trying to swim the sinking Titanic to shore.


----------



## Mr316

I need to see these quarter hour asap. 😂


----------



## VamosRamos

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Anyone here a subscriber? Lol
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593376343575605248


Chris Jericho, the ratings wizard. He makes them dissapear


----------



## DammitChrist

VamosRamos said:


> Chris Jericho, the ratings wizard. He makes them dissapear


Nah, Chris Jericho was part of the highest rated quarterly segment just a couple of weeks ago (that also had Claudio Castagnoli, Daniel Garcia, and Wheeler Yuta too).

Tony Khan is completely justified in pushing Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia too since they were doing even better with both of those men being advertised on TV


----------



## VamosRamos

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, Chris Jericho was part of the highest rated quarterly segment just a couple of weeks ago (that also had Claudio Castagnoli, Daniel Garcia, and Wheeler Yuta too).
> 
> Tony Khan is completely justified in pushing Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia too since they were doing even better with both of those men being advertised on TV


Tony is saving wrestling


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

what’s going on in this thread today i won….

oh


----------



## IronMan8

Showstopper said:


> Hey @IronMan8 . You were saying the other day?!


These are disappointing numbers for AEW, and definitely below the standard that Tony Kahn is capable of achieving, while at the same time, I still share your view that Raw's 1.4 million is a crazy good number for HHH's standards


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

IronMan8 said:


> I think these are very disappointing numbers for AEW and below the standard that Tony Kahn is capable of reaching, while at the same time, I still share your view that Raw's 1.4 million is a crazy good number for HHH's standards


Hey, that 3rd hour of Raw destroyed Dynamite's Hours 1 and 2 both in Overall and the Demo this week. Thanks for reminding me of that!


----------



## DammitChrist

On the bright side, Dynamite did destroy Smackdown in the ratings (where they lost 1.4+ million viewers) just a few weeks ago; so AEW will always hold yet another victory over them


----------



## Mr316

DammitChrist said:


> On the bright side, Dynamite did destroy Smackdown in the ratings (where they lost 1.4+ million viewers) just a few weeks ago; so AEW will always hold yet another victory over them


Can’t wait for your heel turn DammitChrist. It will be history in the making.


----------



## Araxen

The Jeff Jarrett effect in full force. It was the tipping point for me. It isn't a coincidence the ratings are down bad since his debut.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

When you realize the third hour of Raw this week almost doubled up Dynamite:

Dynamite: 818K
Raw's 3rd Hour: 1.47 Million

Only 130K away. That's up against an NFL Division Rivalry that went down to the wire and involved the only undefeated team left in the league at that point. I'm not trying to be mean, but holy shit. AEW is a disaster right now.


----------



## IronMan8

Showstopper said:


> Hey, that 3rd hour of Raw destroyed Dynamite's Hours 1 and 2 both in Overall and the Demo this week. Thanks for reminding me of that!


It's truly a phenomenal effort for HHH to convince 1.4 million people to watch Raw's main event, it's beyond all of our expectations and deserves to be praised 

Whenever AEW has a down week, it's surprising and disappointing, because in the long run everybody knows and expects Tony Kahn to eventually deliver success to his company, even if HHH is throwing everything he's got at him


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

IronMan8 said:


> It's truly a phenomenal effort for HHH to convince 1.4 million people to watch Raw's main event, it's beyond all of our expectations and deserves to be praised
> 
> Whenever AEW has a down week, it's surprising and disappointing, because in the long run everybody knows and expects Tony Kahn to eventually defeat HHH due to his superior booking on average


You deserve a nice, little pat on the head for being as lost and delusional as you are. Tony Khan is the joke of the wrestling world these days. Couldn't write himself to have a day where he sits in bed all day, watches TV, gets up to take a shit, without fucking it up. Complete amateur.


----------



## IronMan8

Showstopper said:


> When you realize the third hour of Raw this week almost doubled up Dynamite:
> 
> Dynamite: 818K
> Raw's 3rd Hour: 1.47 Million
> 
> Only 130K away. That's up against an NFL Division Rivalry that went down to the wire and involved the only undefeated team left in the league at that point. I'm not trying to be mean, but holy shit. AEW is a disaster right now.


Yep, waiting for Tony to fail is your best hope, since the only way HHH could ever beat Tony Kahn is if Tony trips over his own feet - we all know HHH isn't putting a rocket on his back and taking his show to new heights 

I hope WWE's viewership increases significantly and AEW rises even faster


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

IronMan8 said:


> Yep, the only way HHH can beat Tony Kahn is if Tony trips over his own feet - we all know HHH isn't putting a rocket on his back and taking his show to new heights
> 
> I hope WWE's viewership increases significantly and AEW rises even faster


Triple H has beaten Tony every single week since he took over.

Wait a SECOND. This Dynamite last night was a GO HOME SHOW??? No way. If that is actually true, anyone defending him is absolutely GONE. This was a go home show?!?1?!/

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOLY SHIT!!!!


----------



## VamosRamos

IronMan8 said:


> Yep, waiting for Tony to fail is your best hope, since the only way HHH could ever beat Tony Kahn is if Tony trips over his own feet - we all know HHH isn't putting a rocket on his back and taking his show to new heights
> 
> I hope WWE's viewership increases significantly and AEW rises even faster


You are drinking that Anthony Khan Kool Aid as we speak


----------



## IronMan8

Showstopper said:


> Triple H has beaten Tony every single week since he took over.
> 
> Wait a SECOND. This Dynamite last night was a GO HOME SHOW??? No way. If that is actually true, anyone defending him is absolutely GONE. This was a go home show?!?1?!/
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOLY SHIT!!!!


It's funny when my framing of a situation goes over your head


----------



## Blonde

IronMan8 said:


> Yep, waiting for Tony to fail is your best hope, since the only way HHH could ever beat Tony Kahn is if Tony trips over his own feet - we all know HHH isn't putting a rocket on his back and taking his show to new heights
> 
> I hope WWE's viewership increases significantly and AEW rises even faster


What are you smoking, just wondering.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

IronMan8 said:


> It's funny when my framing of a situation goes over your head


This...was...a....go....home....show......

You know, I actually have some sympathy for Khan right now. Half-full small arena last night, terrible rating....and a PPV in a few days.

I'll layoff alittle bit. Tony must be in shambles, and clearly so are some fans here. Sorry. (yikes)


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Wow, that is a very disconcerting rating, especially in the light of it being the go home show to FG. That rating sucks and you can't spin that.

I do hope it improves but I am still stunned by that anemic rating. See how next week fares.


----------



## IronMan8

Rhhodes said:


> What are you smoking, just wondering.


AEW is below expectation and WWE is above expectation, don't you agree?

My logic unfortunately goes over the head of some WWE fans. There are two ways for a team to "win"


you succeed
the 'other' fails

Celebrating a disappointing outcome for the 'other' is an admission of lack of faith in your team to succeed themselves

In contrast

Just days ago I acknowledged the positive outcome for HHH, he did great, and he exceeded all of our expectation. So, I'm finding a funny difference in confidence levels for this friendly competition


----------



## DammitChrist

Nah, the rating is fine since they'll easily continue to get stronger ratings in the future.

There is nothing for other fans to spin when they've obviously been succeeding for a long time already.


----------



## One Shed

Quick Tony, book more trios matches and another heatless tournament!


----------



## The XL 2

That's a brutal rating for a go home. Between this and their attendance, it's not looking good. They need to push Wardlow to the top, heat up some credible heels like Powerhouse Hobbs and Miro, give Danielson something resembling a character again, put the belt on MJF and off of the plumber. Big Cass looks great, he shouldn't be in a group with a bunch of manlet jobbers. Max Castor is over huge, he can stay in a tag, but they need to feature him as a top singles guy too.

Basically they need to start pushing guys who can become stars, put the guys who have no star power on the back burner, and for the love of fuck, they need to cut down on how long these TV matches are.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> *Nobody* in wrestling is a big TV draw.


At least you have identified one of the biggest current day problems.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> Quick Tony, book more trios matches and another heatless tournament!


The majority of the AEW audience enjoy awesome trios matches and competitive tournaments; so these suggestions deserve to be welcomed


----------



## Dr. Middy

Well following Full Gear is their long west coast tour so hopefully they'll get another spark there along with MJF's reign beginning. They've done fairly well with tickets over there so far it seems.


----------



## DammitChrist

The XL 2 said:


> That's a brutal rating for a go home. Between this and their attendance, it's not looking good. They need to push Wardlow to the top, heat up some credible heels like Powerhouse Hobbs and Miro, give Danielson something resembling a character again, put the belt on MJF and off of the plumber. Big Cass looks great, he shouldn't be in a group with a bunch of manlet jobbers. Max Castor is over huge, he can stay in a tag, but they need to feature him as a top singles guy too.
> 
> Basically they need to start pushing guys who can become stars, put the guys who have no star power on the back burner, and for the love of fuck, they need to cut down on how long these TV matches are.


That's interesting because *all* those names you've mentioned were heavily spotlighted/advertised last night, and yet they still couldn't prevent this dip in viewership from taking place here.

It's almost like they should continue doing their ideas instead of listening to any of these big suggestions.

Besides, the recent Dynamite episodes over the last few months did even better numbers with the workrate/Indy guys being spotlighted (like Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia); so it's almost like none of them 'tanked' the ratings in the first place 

Oh, and they've successfully maintained over 1+ million viewers for several weeks in a row during Jon Moxley's world title reign too btw.


----------



## Blonde

IronMan8 said:


> AEW is below expectation and WWE is above expectation, don't you agree?
> 
> My logic unfortunately goes over the head of some WWE fans. There are two ways for a team to "win"
> 
> 
> you succeed
> the 'other' fails
> 
> Celebrating a disappointing outcome for the 'other' is an admission of lack of faith in your team to succeed themselves
> 
> In contrast
> 
> Just days ago I acknowledged the positive outcome for HHH, he did great, and he exceeded all of our expectation. So, I'm finding a funny difference in confidence levels for this friendly competition


Not really. Both are below expectations. But the difference is WWE, at least on the RAW side, has several stars out with injuries while facing competition from the NFL.

Whereas Tony is working on firing their biggest star to placate Harpo, the Hardlies, Jeribloat and Butterfly Pants.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> The majority of the AEW audience enjoy awesome trios matches and competitive tournaments; so these suggestions deserve to be welcomed


Too bad awesome trios matches are not featured on AEW


----------



## Chelsea

Bad ratings for a bad show. Everything has been boring since Punk left and Bryan lost to that asshole Moxley again.


----------



## VamosRamos

Chelsea said:


> Bad ratings for a bad show. Everything has been boring since Punk left and Bryan lost to that asshole Moxley again.


The ratings are amazing, what do you mean ?
Wrote you on the list


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> Too bad awesome trios matches are not featured on AEW


We just saw an awesome trios match last night between Death Triangle vs Top Flight/AR Fox on Dynamite.

It *just* happened not even a full 24 hours ago, dude.

Edit:

Jon Moxley is still overall the wrestling MVP of 2022 btw, and I'd easily vote for him to win the award this year if I was somehow able to subscribe. Will Ospreay is the only other dude who comes close to his awesome work this year.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> We just saw an awesome trios match last night between Death Triangle vs Top Flight/AR Fox on Dynamite.
> 
> It *just* happened not even a full 24 hours ago, dude.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Jon Moxley is still overall the wrestling MVP of 2022 btw, and I'd easily vote for him to win the award this year if I was somehow able to subscribe. Will Ospreay is the only other dude who comes close to his awesome work this year.


And yet people could not change the channel fast enough. It was yet another rinse and repeat choreography routine. Just nonstop moves where nothing matters or makes sense. People are tired of them and the evidence clearly shows that.

Edit: "somehow able to subscribe?" Is it some huge mystery on how to pay Dave Meltzer money? He uh takes credit cards and uh, uh Paypal. His third form of payment is Mabelpay.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> And yet people could not change the channel fast enough. It was yet another rinse and repeat choreography routine. Just nonstop moves where nothing matters or makes sense. People are tired of them and the evidence clearly shows that.


Nope, you don't speak for the rest of those viewers; especially since much of the buzz for Full Gear involves a highly anticipated match involving Death Triangle. Nobody else is 'tired' of Death Triangle, and there is no evidence showing that at all.

That was clearly the 2nd best match on the show (behind the JAS vs BCC tag opener), and this ratings dip is clearly due to major sports competition regarding the big NBA game(s) last night.


----------



## Rankles75

Ooft, what the heck happened?!


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Nope, you don't speak for the rest of those viewers; especially since much of the buzz for Full Gear involves a highly anticipated match involving Death Triangle. Nobody else is 'tired' of Death Triangle, and there is no evidence showing that at all.
> 
> That was clearly the 2nd best match on the show (behind the JAS vs BCC tag opener), and this ratings dip is clearly due to major sports competition regarding the big NBA game(s) last night.


Is your entire dataset your messages to yourself? Hundreds of thousands of people tune out every time the word "trios" is mentioned. Do you not understand how evidence works?


----------



## VamosRamos

One Shed said:


> Is your entire dataset your messages to yourself? Hundreds of thousands of people tune out every time the word "trios" is mentioned. Do you not understand how evidence works?


He's full on Anthony Kool Aid sadly


----------



## DammitChrist

Rankles75 said:


> Ooft, what the heck happened?!


It's unfortunately one of those weeks where the overall ratings randomly dip/fluctuate, but they'll undoubtedly rebound to even stronger numbers in the (NEAR) future.

I remember AEW was getting unfairly ruled out for several weeks back in June, but yet they inevitably had 6+ weeks of maintaining 1+ million viewers less than 2 months afterwards. Heck, I think they also did over a million viewers for that Blood & Guts episode by the end of that month too, which was way before that golden streak which started in August.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> Is your entire dataset your messages to yourself? Hundreds of thousands of people tune out every time the word "trios" is mentioned. Do you not understand how evidence works?


Nah, a great portion of the AEW audience enjoys these trios matches. Let's not take that away from them


----------



## The XL 2

Mr316 said:


> AEW is doomed as long as Tony keeps booking 5-6 15 to 20 minute matches on Dynamite.


It's so hard to watch. And it doesn't help that the matches have no heat and are nothing more than ugly looking spotfests.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> It's unfortunately one of those weeks where the overall ratings randomly dip/fluctuate, but they'll undoubtedly rebound to even stronger numbers in the (NEAR) future.
> 
> I remember AEW was getting unfairly ruled out for several weeks back in June, but yet they inevitably had 6+ weeks of maintaining 1+ million viewers less than 2 months afterwards. Heck, I think they also did over a million viewers for that Blood & Guts episode by the end of that month too, which was way before that golden streak which started in August.


RANDOMLY FLUCTUATE!

Nope! No patterns or anything to learn here! A true mystery!


DammitChrist said:


> Nah, a great portion of the AEW audience enjoys these trios matches. Let's not take that away from them


Nah, when it is just you and two others on here saying it was anything better than a piss poor show, just realize you are in the tiny minority, which is fine. I am perfectly fine being in the minority when I happen to be, not sure why you seem not to be OK with that.


----------



## drougfree

ths is what happens when you choose geeks like Colt Cabana and the The Elite over the biggest draw and the only reason to watch AEW (Punk)


----------



## Jay Trotter

There it is. All the signs were there for more than a month that the bottom would soon fall out on them. In a reversal of fortunes compared to their first 3 years on cable, it was a random spike in the 50+ demo that kept their head above water through this stretch. Normally, it was the 18-49 demos that was their bread and butter since Oct 19, but they've been falling off for months now. If the old folks are tapping out after that short term aberration, they are in big trouble cause the younger crowd has been losing interest. Never seen this much disinterest in the weekly product. Show thread here is about 10-15 pages less a week. You can hear the crowds getting quieter and see them getting smaller. Trends are falling sooner than usual down the list. YouTube views have been lower and lower. MJF is the only reason to watch right now. Starks and Ethan Page getting a push is reason for optimism. Can't think of much else. Tony's Khan's purchase and oversaturation of ROH on AEW TV was the worst thing that ever happened. All the focus on that brand and their titles has watered down the brand and titles that should always come first.


----------



## zkorejo

I'm not the one calling doom and gloom but the show has had a dark cloud since all out and for a good reason. People are starting to not give a shit because the on screen product has been too safe and downright boring at times.

Last week's show was bad. It was boring and it felt like nobody gave a shit about it. That reflects here this week. The show was okay this week but there was no particular reason to watch this week. Anyone who missed this week's Dynamite won't regret it and that's what you don't want. 

There better be a great reset at FG. Start fresh feuds after FG. Fuck ROH and throw it all in the trash it's not helping anyone. BCC vs JAS feud needed to end like a month ago. All Jericho feuds overstay their welcome, it's a problem. Recognize it. 

Use Bryan as a mainevent guy. Idc what he wants, aew needs big names and he has one but his booking has made him just another guy on the roster. 

Use Elite for something grand upon their return. 

Make MJF your top priority moving forward. 

They can still fix this.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

insulting your audience and putting trash like Colt cabana against Jerichock sure paid off right? Stick it to Punk, LOL, at the cost of 100k fans. good job!


----------



## Joe Gill

Punk alone gave AEW a boost of about 100k fans for tv in the states alone... maybe 20k ppv buys per ppv... and was easily the top merchandise seller..... TK used to rave about what a great investment punk was..... yet the moron ultimately chose career indy horseshit like the bucks and omega over punk....


----------



## RuthlessAttitude

If things get too bad they can always move Dynamite and Rampage to Daily's Place and Universal Studios. Maybe find another regular theatre to use in the south east to mix it up. 800 people in a small setting and some modern production techniques would be better than the dimly lit arena from last night. Then use the major cities for special episodes.


----------



## DammitChrist

Joe Gill said:


> Punk alone gave AEW a boost of about 100k fans for tv in the states alone... maybe 20k ppv buys per ppv... and was easily the top merchandise seller..... TK used to rave about what a great investment punk was..... yet the moron ultimately chose career indy horseshit like the bucks and omega over punk....


Thankfully, you're wrong about the Elite since they're a BIG reason why many wrestling fans even gave AEW a chance in the first place back in 2019; which isn't surprising since they're 3 great talents who will undoubtedly make Full Gear an even better show this Saturday.

AEW is better off keeping BOTH CM Punk and the Elite. Those 4 men are GREAT investments, and Tony Khan is a genius for recognizing that fact.


----------



## zkorejo

Joe Gill said:


> Punk alone gave AEW a boost of about 100k fans for tv in the states alone... maybe 20k ppv buys per ppv... and was easily the top merchandise seller..... TK used to rave about what a great investment punk was..... yet the moron ultimately chose career indy horseshit like the bucks and omega over punk....


Punk fucked it up not Tony. Tony made one blunder.. he raved about Punk Infront of him and in public and gave him a big head. 

You don't want a fuckin Hogan on your hands. It's not like Punk was doing it out of charity. He had a fat contract and was treated as the guy. That's what he always wanted. If you aren't mature enough to tackle locker room adversity from younger guys, you should never have had this position. 

No one is bigger than the company should be the motto of every business owner. TK was just too much of a Punk fan to realize that.


----------



## One Shed

zkorejo said:


> Punk fucked it up not Tony. Tony made one blunder.. he raved about Punk Infront of him and in public and gave him a big head.
> 
> You don't want a fuckin Hogan on your hands. It's not like Punk was doing it out of charity. He had a fat contract and was treated as the guy. That's what he always wanted. If you aren't mature enough to tackle locker room adversity from younger guys, you should never have had this position.
> 
> No one is bigger than the company should be the motto of every business owner. TK was just too much of a Punk fan to realize that.


No, you DEFINITELY would never want a Hulk Hogan in your company. You know, someone who would raise the entire industry many levels. Not saying at all that Punk is on that level or even close, but it is freaking WEIRD to me to hear people saying the last thing a wrestling company needs is someone who could completely transform the business. Nah, give me more generic 5'8 flippers. That will bring the ratings!


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist's Programmer said:


> I would like to sincerely apologize to all of you here at WrestlingForum for my Internet robot DammitChrist, he has clearly malfunctioned
> 
> When I programmed the bot, I admit I made it so my bot would automatically push back at any AEW criticism, however I now see that my creation is out of control
> 
> When someone says "this show was awful" the bot has been programmed to say "nah actually the show was great and the thousands of fans that tuned in agree" or something similar to that, and I really regret adding this code to the bot
> 
> Also my DammitChrist bot was programmed to use the "facepalm", "haha" or "dislike" emoji on all anti AEW posts, which clearly has worked, as it has been added to thousands of posts on this forum
> 
> Because I did not want to risk my DammitChrist bot getting banned, whenever a moderator makes an anti-AEW post, I set the code to use a "sad" emoji, or ignore the post entirely, as DammitChrist is not designed to criticize those individuals in power, even if they also hate AEW, the bot cannot say anything to them out of fear
> 
> Sadly, I have lost control of the bot and it is now operating entirely on its own
> 
> I am sorry once again
> 
> Thank you
> 
> -DammitChrist's Programmer


Next time, can you at least make it more interesting than the personality vacuums it praises the most like Yuta and Garcia?


----------



## VamosRamos

DammitChrist said:


> Thankfully, you're wrong about the Elite since they're a BIG reason why many wrestling fans even gave AEW a chance in the first place back in 2019; which isn't surprising since they're 3 great talents who will undoubtedly make Full Gear an even better show this Saturday.
> 
> AEW is better off keeping BOTH CM Punk and the Elite. Those 4 men are GREAT investments, and Tony Khan is a genius for recognizing that fact.


The Anthony Kool Aid is at an all time high


----------



## zkorejo

One Shed said:


> No, you DEFINITELY would never want a Hulk Hogan in your company. You know, someone who would raise the entire industry many levels. Not saying at all that Punk is on that level or even close, but it is freaking WEIRD to me to hear people saying the last thing a wrestling company needs is someone who could completely transform the business. Nah, give me more generic 5'8 flippers. That will bring the ratings!


When I say Hogan, I usually mean the bad stuff he brought to the table. You probably already are aware of all the bullshit politics he used to do in his day. Hogan serves Hogan only. It worked when he was in his prime, it becomes a problem when you're past your prime and don't want to help build others around you.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> No, you DEFINITELY would never want a Hulk Hogan in your company. You know, someone who would raise the entire industry many levels. Not saying at all that Punk is on that level or even close, but it is freaking WEIRD to me to hear people saying the last thing a wrestling company needs is someone who could completely transform the business. Nah, give me more generic 5'8 flippers. That will bring the ratings!


He's clearly referring to how Hulk Hogan (and company) primarily led to the downfall of TNA over a decade ago.

Hell, I think Hogan might've hurt WCW too at the end with his backstage influence even though he did help that company grow years beforehand.


----------



## Top bins

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, last night's episode of Dynamite was pretty good, and the overall product has been consistently entertaining over the past year; so they definitely deserve to have even higher viewership due to their consistency of delivering fun shows on a weekly basis.


Could the declining ratings this week be because there was no Orange Cassidy, Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia? The three of them are huge difference makers and would of almost certainly kept the ratings over 1 million one would assume?


----------



## Joe Gill

zkorejo said:


> Punk fucked it up not Tony. Tony made one blunder.. he raved about Punk Infront of him and in public and gave him a big head.
> 
> You don't want a fuckin Hogan on your hands. It's not like Punk was doing it out of charity. He had a fat contract and was treated as the guy. That's what he always wanted. If you aren't mature enough to tackle locker room adversity from younger guys, you should never have had this position.
> 
> No one is bigger than the company should be the motto of every business owner. TK was just too much of a Punk fan to realize that.


aew isnt some established company like wwe... they are still relatively young and looking for a big tv deal.... fact is ratings are going down considerably without punk. Yes, TK should have tried to resolve the issue before it got out of control...but he is a little cuck who is too afraid of confrontation. Punk did not fuck up...its a fact that the elite are basically man childs who were jealous of punks success... just like the bucks are jealous of ftr and hold them back. The bucks needed a shit kicking for all the bs they always pull..... now instead of another brilliant program between punk and mjf we get to see 6 man ballet matches with omega doing his facial orgasms.


----------



## DammitChrist

Top bins said:


> Could the declining ratings this week be because there was no Orange Cassidy, Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia? The three of them are huge difference makers and would of almost certainly kept the ratings over 1 million one would assume?


Honestly, I don't really think those 3 men are big TV draws either. However, I definitely don't believe that they're the 'ratings killers' that they were made out to be over the last few months.

This week is just a big example on how they don't kill the viewership at all since those men were largely absent, and you can even include the Elite in there too since they've still yet to physically appear in person.


----------



## zkorejo

Joe Gill said:


> aew isnt some established company like wwe... they are still relatively young and looking for a big tv deal.... fact is ratings are going down considerably without punk. Yes, TK should have tried to resolve the issue before it got out of control...but he is a little cuck who is too afraid of confrontation. Punk did not fuck up...its a fact that the elite are basically man childs who were jealous of punks success... just like the bucks are jealous of ftr and hold them back. The bucks needed a shit kicking for all the bs they always pull..... now instead of another brilliant program between punk and mjf we get to see 6 man ballet matches with omega doing his facial orgasms.


Just like Punk was a man child when Rock came back in 2011 and gave them all the biggest paycheck of their lives while being constantly called out by Punk and Cena? Yeah that's how it works. You can't expect younger guys to match your life experiences and wisdom.

Punk of all people should have had empathy for younger guys who were insecure of him. He should have treated them how he wanted to be treated by the big names when he couldn't crack that ceiling in his time and whined about not being in the mainevent.

He said he was disgusted at the fact he wasn't in WM mainevent and Rock was. Why can't he understand where the aew locker room is coming from? He should have handled it better but ironically he proved to be the biggest man child of them all by throwing a tantrum on a media call and starting a fist fight backstage.. and the worst part is, he is supposed to be the wise one here.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> He's clearly referring to how Hulk Hogan (and company) primarily led to the downfall of TNA over a decade ago.
> 
> Hell, I think Hogan might've hurt WCW too at the end with his backstage influence even though he did help that company grow years beforehand.


No one watched TNA though. Good bookers are rare. We keep getting taught that lesson.


----------



## Top bins

DammitChrist said:


> Honestly, I don't really think those 3 men are big TV draws either. However, I definitely don't believe that they're the 'ratings killers' that they were made out to be over the last few months.
> 
> This week is just a big example on how they don't kill the viewership at all since those men were largely absent, and you can even include the Elite in there too since they've still yet to physically appear in person.


In all fairness DC you are right there ,the evidence this week with those three not on the show in anyway shape or form and the ratings wasn't great this week. 

Why do you think the ratings were bad this week? Honest question


----------



## Dr. Middy

It's fascinating how so many would welcome Punk back with open arms now with a low rating.


----------



## zkorejo

Dr. Middy said:


> It's fascinating how so many would welcome Punk back with open arms now with a low rating.


I don't think it's Punk's absence. More related to people turned off by the all out shitstorm. I know I am. They need to turn it around asap.

The shows haven't been must watch/good to great wrestling show either. Mox title reign is like what a third one.. Jericho vs BCC is stale as fuck and there's nothing exciting on except MJF and Acclaimed.

This has been the most lackluster build to a ppv since AEWs inception (not counting Forbidden door). Match card is good though and they can turn it around if they wanted it to.


----------



## Saintpat

Top bins said:


> In all fairness DC you are right there ,the evidence this week with those three not on the show in anyway shape or form and the ratings wasn't great this week.
> 
> Why do you think the ratings were bad this week? Honest question


Maybe people preemptively tuned out figuring the Elite would finally return this week on the go-home show.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> Is your entire dataset your messages to yourself? Hundreds of thousands of people tune out every time the word "trios" is mentioned. Do you not understand how evidence works?


Nearly a 100k tuned out for Sting, Darby, and Punk in a trios match that was story-driven.

Not sure why anyone gets offended at the idea that trios matches do not draw well.


----------



## bdon

IronMan8 said:


> AEW is below expectation and WWE is above expectation, don't you agree?
> 
> My logic unfortunately goes over the head of some WWE fans. There are two ways for a team to "win"
> 
> 
> you succeed
> the 'other' fails
> 
> Celebrating a disappointing outcome for the 'other' is an admission of lack of faith in your team to succeed themselves
> 
> In contrast
> 
> Just days ago I acknowledged the positive outcome for HHH, he did great, and he exceeded all of our expectation. So, I'm finding a funny difference in confidence levels for this friendly competition


I want AEW to succeed. Don’t care what is going on up north. I can still admit that Tony Khan has given up, and any hopes of “success” or growth need to be stymied. Consistently over a million ain’t happening on Tony Khan’s watch. No matter who is at the top of the card.


One Shed said:


> No, you DEFINITELY would never want a Hulk Hogan in your company. You know, someone who would raise the entire industry many levels. Not saying at all that Punk is on that level or even close, but it is freaking WEIRD to me to hear people saying the last thing a wrestling company needs is someone who could completely transform the business. Nah, give me more generic 5'8 flippers. That will bring the ratings!


If someone in AEW could do that, I’d understand putting up with their shit. Someone being just a hair larger than the Elite or Mox in terms of drawing power? Nah. That someone can fuck right back off to Chicago.


----------



## bdon

zkorejo said:


> I don't think it's Punk's absence. More related to people turned off by the all out shitstorm. I know I am. They need to turn it around asap.
> 
> The shows haven't been must watch/good to great wrestling show either. Mox title reign is like what a third one.. Jericho vs BCC is stale as fuck and there's nothing exciting on except MJF and Acclaimed.
> 
> This has been the most lackluster build to a ppv since AEWs inception (not counting Forbidden door). Match card is good though and they can turn it around if they wanted it to.


TK has routinely given up when his creative plans fell apart. He just hits a pause button, not even trying to do stories, until he can restart his “master” plan.

Punk is gone and working on a buyout. All of TK’s creative has been built around Punk for the last year, not even attempting to build anyone else’s story outside of Punk. Want to know FTR’s biggest problem? It wasn’t that the Bucks wouldn’t job to them. There problem was that they no longer had the Halo Effect of Punk next to them in TK’s eye.

Tony Khan had built a roster that was steadily growing their PPV buyrates without Punk or Bryan. He had developed a core group that audiences knew and could follow their story.

Omega left TV, and Tony Khan’s entire creative focused solely on Punk, much in the same way WWE has routinely only given creative to their handpicked golden boys. Not involved with Cena or Roman? Fuck right off til we need ya next time. Not involved with Punk? Fuck right off til we need ya next time, and this also goes for the highest paid wrestler on the roster, Moxley.

Punk isn’t likely returning, so TK’s likely hit a permanent “pause” this time.


----------



## IronMan8

The vibes have felt a bit off lately... so Full Gear with 12,000 fans has come at the perfect time to intervene and kickstart our hearts again!

What if ratings fall by late January? Will AEW face heavy pressure to bring back CM Punk? The coming weeks hold extra significance for that reason.

Debates will emerge about the value of business vs morale, etc., but as those themes emerge, this very thread will never fail to find increasingly creative ways to slip on new banana peels every step of the way 🍌



Rhhodes said:


> Not really. Both are below expectations.


I was just having fun with @Showstopper

He described Raw's rating this week as "CRAZY GOOD"... I mean, just a few years ago could you imagine Raw getting 1.6m with a 1.47m 3rd hour and fans feeling ecstatic about it as a positive outcome? That's all I meant



zkorejo said:


> Just like Punk was a man child when Rock came back in 2011 and gave them all the biggest paycheck of their lives while being constantly called out by Punk and Cena? Yeah that's how it works. You can't expect younger guys to match your life experiences and wisdom.
> 
> Punk of all people should have had empathy for younger guys who were insecure of him. He should have treated them how he wanted to be treated by the big names when he couldn't crack that ceiling in his time and whined about not being in the mainevent.
> 
> He said he was disgusted at the fact he wasn't in WM mainevent and Rock was. Why can't he understand where the aew locker room is coming from? He should have handled it better but ironically he proved to be the biggest man child of them all by throwing a tantrum on a media call and starting a fist fight backstage.. and the worst part is, he is supposed to be the wise one here.


High EQ post 



Dr. Middy said:


> It's fascinating how so many would welcome Punk back with open arms now with a low rating.


There's also something deeper here that goes beyond Punk's direct influence IMO

The brilliant Hangman/Omega long-term story built a lot of trust in Tony Kahn and AEW. But the Punk drama has created a growing trust issue with AEW's big storylines. Are they carefully constructed and intentionally laid out, or not?

If not... what is the consequence of that?

CM Punk's gripe bomb struck at AEW's creative freedom core.

He exposed his own storyline with Hangman as meaningless, aimless promo banter between 2 individuals not working together to tell a coherent story.

So now, fans are less likely to give the benefit of the doubt when MJF and Moxley's story becomes increasingly opaque.

That's the true cost of Punk's absence IMO.

The fastest and safest solution to the trust issue is to quickly reframe the whole All Out drama to make it appear like a partial work on some level the whole time. A master plan in which Tony outsmarted everyone.

For example, let's say MJF is about to win clean at Full Gear, and the Firm appear... but they side with Mox and Regal, so it looks like MJF is getting screwed out of the title.

Then the lights go out and we see the same devil's trick promo that we saw at All Out... but instead of MJF walking out, this time it's CM Punk walking out in the same devil's mask as MJF.

It was a master plan all along in a mirror image to how All Out ended. This whole time MJF was talking about the devil getting his due, and Moxley was right when he said MJF isn't the devil... but MJF was talking about the original devil CM Punk this whole time.

They devised their master plan after MJF saved Larry that night at All Out, leading to him earning Punk's loyalty. They threatened legal action against Tony if he commented, so they forced Tony to say no comment to everything. AEW's main event story for the year with Punk and MJF has been a brilliant work all along, only changing the timeframe because of injury.

That's how I'd see AEW completely regaining both long-term trust and short-term momentum this year.

The point is - AEW's creative freedom is a double-edged sword, and the Punk drama isn't just about Punk, it symbolises all the cut trust bleeding out of scrummy wounds.

So, a Punk return itself would only be a bandaid.


----------



## kingfunkel

I hope the ratings just tank 1 week. Tony Khan needs to see that his booking is awful and the quality of the show has deteriorated massively. 
In the long run it would be better for the show.

I'd also be begging CM Punk to come back. Put him on commentary, ring announcer, bell keeper, referee. Just anything to have him on screen.


----------



## Irish Jet

IronMan8 said:


> The brilliant Hangman/Omega long-term story built a lot of trust in Tony Kahn and AEW.


"Brilliant" lol.

This is why they'll never learn. That bit of booking was the single worst thing AEW have ever done and they're still living with the ramifications of that decision to this day.

As I said at the time:



Irish Jet said:


> Get the belt on Danielson before he just becomes another guy in the company. The stars have arrived and it's time to get the spotlight on them if you want to appeal to an audience outside their little base.


But hey it's a good thing they recovered and now Bryan Danielson's star has never shone brighter...


----------



## Irish Jet

Rhhodes said:


> Not really. Both are below expectations.


Raw's rating is up 5% from the same week last year.
Dynamite's rating is down _17%_ from the same week last year.

For AEW that's impressively bad.

WWE have reversed years of decline and stagnation to finally start gaining some viewers again in 2022. Bouncing back from covid may be a factor in that but they're undoubtedly ahead of where they expected to be.


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

DammitChrist said:


> Thankfully, you're wrong about the Elite since they're a BIG reason why many wrestling fans even gave AEW a chance in the first place back in 2019; which isn't surprising since they're 3 great talents who will undoubtedly make Full Gear an even better show this Saturday.
> 
> AEW is better off keeping BOTH CM Punk and the Elite. Those 4 men are GREAT investments, and Tony Khan is a genius for recognizing that fact.


Please try to have some dignity, you're having a borderline mental breakdown in public over a wrestling show. Do you just not have any self-awareness at all? As Good Ol' JR would say about heel Triple Haitch: do you have no shame? Did the dog wanking coke fiend save you from a burning building in a past life? You got more posts ITT than there are people who watched Dynamite, you hysterical embarrassment.


----------



## DammitChrist

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> Please try to have some dignity, you're having a borderline mental breakdown in public over a wrestling show. Do you just not have any self-awareness at all? As Good Ol' JR would say about heel Triple Haitch: do you have no shame? Did the dog wanking coke fiend save you from a burning building in a past life? You got more posts ITT than there are people who watched Dynamite, you hysterical embarrassment.


Oops, I didn't realize that providing rational explanations to these numbers (along with the good quality) was something to be apparently ashamed of here. Maybe you're better off learning to chill with the attitude instead of attacking someone who (is proud and) isn't worried about the company's future at all


----------



## Kishido

Awesome numbers


----------



## fabi1982

DammitChrist said:


> The majority of the AEW audience enjoy awesome trios matches and competitive tournaments; so these suggestions deserve to be welcomed


Because you are the majority of the AEW audience now? Or are you talking to the majority? Are they all with you right now?


----------



## La Parka

fabi1982 said:


> Because you are the majority of the AEW audience now?


At this rate, he very well could be in a few years.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Dr. Middy said:


> It's fascinating how so many would welcome Punk back with open arms now with a low rating.


I would have had him on TV days after he had his press conference blowout. And I would have had the Elite too. Confronting him. Those ratings would have exploded. The people during the Monday Night Wars would do this shit all the time. You make money on controversy. You do business regardless if you hate your opponant or not.


----------



## .christopher.

looooooooooooooooool


----------



## .christopher.

Hotdiggity11 said:


> "What was once a captivating, trendsetting program has now deteriorated into a cliched, let's be honest, boring snoozefest that is dire need of a knight in shining armor.”


To be fair, AEW was never captivating or considered trendsetting. It's always been shit with a bright spark here and there.

Unfortunately for AEW, Tony buried those bright sparks in favour of indy garbage.


----------



## Blonde

bdon said:


> TK has routinely given up when his creative plans fell apart. He just hits a pause button, not even trying to do stories, until he can restart his “master” plan.
> 
> Punk is gone and working on a buyout. All of TK’s creative has been built around Punk for the last year, not even attempting to build anyone else’s story outside of Punk. Want to know FTR’s biggest problem? It wasn’t that the Bucks wouldn’t job to them. There problem was that they no longer had the Halo Effect of Punk next to them in TK’s eye.
> 
> Tony Khan had built a roster that was steadily growing their PPV buyrates without Punk or Bryan. He had developed a core group that audiences knew and could follow their story.
> 
> Omega left TV, and Tony Khan’s entire creative focused solely on Punk, much in the same way WWE has routinely only given creative to their handpicked golden boys. Not involved with Cena or Roman? Fuck right off til we need ya next time. Not involved with Punk? Fuck right off til we need ya next time, and this also goes for the highest paid wrestler on the roster, Moxley.
> 
> Punk isn’t likely returning, so TK’s likely hit a permanent “pause” this time.


So clearly Punk should be allowed to return if he’s the only one inspiring TK to be creative and motivating him to do his job.

Yet another positive for Silver Fox Daddy Punk. Good looking + sells merch + draws ratings + draws live attendance + inspires the boss to be creative.


----------



## bdon

Rhhodes said:


> So clearly Punk should be allowed to return if he’s the only one inspiring TK to be creative and motivating him to do his job.
> 
> Yet another positive for Silver Fox Daddy Punk. *Good looking* + sells merch + draws ratings + draws live attendance + inspires the boss to be creative.


Sooo…you like the meth head look? I could you hook up a ton of people back in my hometown. Lol

But no, if only one person gets creative, then that is the same as Vince’s WWE. So, what is the point of an alternative? The best wrestling shows in history were when multiple people felt important. Booking only for the company’s face to feel important is what killed the E in the first place.


----------



## 3venflow

*Highs* and lows marked like so.

Q1: Bryan Danielson & Claudio Castagnoli vs. Chris Jericho & Sammy Guevara – *916,000 viewers*, *404,000* in 18-49
Q2: End of Danielson & Castagnoli vs. Jericho & Guevara/Jon Moxley & MJF video – 854,000 viewers (down 62,000), 403,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
Q3: The Acclaimed video/Anthony Bowens vs. Swerve Strickland – 829,000 viewers (down 25,000), 387,000 in 18-49 (down 16,000)
Q4: Jade Cargill & Nyla Rose video/Samoa Joe, Powerhouse Hobbs & Wardlow segment/Britt Baker promo – 792,000 viewers (down 37,000), 378,000 in 18-49 (down 9,000)
Q5: Death Triangle vs. Top Flight & AR Fox – 801,000 viewers (up 9,000), 365,000 in 18-49 (down 13,000)
Q6: Ethan Page vs. Bandido/Jungle Boy & Luchasaurus video/Saraya promo – 790,000 viewers (down 11,000), 352,000 in 18-49 (down 13,000)
Q7: Toni Storm vs. Anna Jay – 755,000 viewers (down 35,000), 321,000 in 18-49 (down 31,000)
Q8: Jon Moxley & MJF segment – 809,000 viewers (up 54,000), 358,000 in 18-49 (up 37,000)


----------



## CovidFan

Should scrap that women's division. It's not just worthless, it's nearly always a negative.

Is that the worst lead into the show since the move to TBS?


----------



## A PG Attitude

While I still enjoy Dynamite on a weekly basis there's no denying the show has felt pretty flat in the second half of the year. It's lacking the excitement factor and the production badly needs a refresh. A new set should be a priority as they've been using the same one since they started. I'd like to see a bigger focus on entrance production as well.


----------



## Blonde

bdon said:


> Sooo…you like the meth head look? I could you hook up a ton of people back in my hometown. Lol
> 
> But no, if only one person gets creative, then that is the same as Vince’s WWE. So, what is the point of an alternative? The best wrestling shows in history were when multiple people felt important. Booking only for the company’s face to feel important is what killed the E in the first place.


I’m not saying book for just one person. I’m saying he shouldn’t release Punk if he only has ideas for him.


----------



## theshape31

CovidFan said:


> Should scrap that women's division. It's not just worthless, it's nearly always a negative.


Or, I don’t know… book them better?


----------



## endiadj

MJF really bringing in those ratings.😑


----------



## CovidFan

theshape31 said:


> Or, I don’t know… book them better?


They're not good enough in the ring to be worth the trouble.


----------



## theshape31

CovidFan said:


> They're not good enough in the ring to be worth the trouble.


You see, this is why we can’t have nice things.


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

CovidFan said:


> They're not good enough in the ring to be worth the trouble.


We have to suffer through Jeff Jarrett, Jay Lethal and his jobber group, Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta. I don't know anyone who'd choose to see those clowns over Britt, Jade, Jamie, Shida, Riho, Rosa, etc. Being good at pretend fighting ain't the end all be all and even if it was there are plenty of good to great female workers on the roster.

Even if you're looking at it from a shallow POV think about it, Sable couldn't wrestle at all but more people wanted to see her than workrate maestro Taka Michunoku and every other man not named Steve Austin.


----------



## DammitChrist

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> We have to suffer through Jeff Jarrett, Jay Lethal and his jobber group, Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta. I don't know anyone who'd choose to see those clowns over Britt, Jade, Jamie, Shida, Riho, Rosa, etc. Being good at pretend fighting ain't the end all be all and even if it was there are plenty of good to great female workers on the roster.
> 
> Even if you're looking at it from a shallow POV think about it, Sable couldn't wrestle at all but more people wanted to see her than workrate maestro Taka Michunoku and every other man not named Steve Austin.


Nah, people also want to see pretty darn good workers like Daniel Garcia, Wheeler Yuta, and Jay Lethal. There's honestly no suffering at all regarding those talented men 

Hopefully, they continue getting featured on TV going forward.


----------



## La Parka

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, people also want to see pretty darn good workers like Daniel Garcia, Wheeler Yuta, and Jay Lethal. There's honestly no suffering at all regarding those talented men
> 
> Hopefully, they continue getting featured on TV going forward.


Does TK have you hostage? 

React with an eyeroll if so. I'll contact the authorities.


----------



## GarpTheFist

CovidFan said:


> Should scrap that women's division. It's not just worthless, it's nearly always a negative.
> 
> Is that the worst lead into the show since the move to TBS?



Was there no BBT that day? Now can we safely say that AEW always gets an extra 100k+ viewers because of the lead in and we should deduct them to get the final number?


----------



## Wolf Mark

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> We have to suffer through Jeff Jarrett, Jay Lethal and his jobber group, Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta. I don't know anyone who'd choose to see those clowns over Britt, Jade, Jamie, Shida, Riho, Rosa, etc. Being good at pretend fighting ain't the end all be all and even if it was there are plenty of good to great female workers on the roster.
> 
> Even if you're looking at it from a shallow POV think about it, *Sable couldn't wrestle at all but more people wanted to see her than workrate maestro Taka Michunoku and every other man not named Steve Austin*.


You have the solution right there, bro. Hot chicks in hot clothes. I mean before AEW, Penelope was wrestling men in sexual matches in the indies. All the stuff she was doing, people would not believe it if they saw it. Have the AEW females do that.


----------



## CovidFan

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> We have to suffer through Jeff Jarrett, Jay Lethal and his jobber group, Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta. I don't know anyone who'd choose to see those clowns over Britt, Jade, Jamie, Shida, Riho, Rosa, etc. Being good at pretend fighting ain't the end all be all and even if it was there are plenty of good to great female workers on the roster.
> 
> Even if you're looking at it from a shallow POV think about it, Sable couldn't wrestle at all but more people wanted to see her than workrate maestro Taka Michunoku and every other man not named Steve Austin.


I'm not coming from a shallow pov with this. If they could wrestle as well ( or even near as well) as the WWE women, I'd welcome them taking more time on my screen every week but the AEW women are terrible in the ring. 

Also, I'd welcome watching those 4 men in the ring over any two in the AEW women's division.


----------



## theshape31

CovidFan said:


> I'm not coming from a shallow pov with this. If they could wrestle as well ( or even near as well) as the WWE women, I'd welcome them taking more time on my screen every week but the AEW women are terrible in the ring.
> 
> Also, I'd welcome watching those 4 men in the ring over any two in the AEW women's division.


I respect your opinion. But you’re wrong and you should feel bad about it.


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

CovidFan said:


> I'm not coming from a shallow pov with this. If they could wrestle as well ( or even near as well) as the WWE women, I'd welcome them taking more time on my screen every week but the AEW women are terrible in the ring.
> 
> Also, I'd welcome watching those 4 men in the ring over any two in the AEW women's division.


I wasn't saying you were looking at it from a shallow POV, I meant even if you (collective you) were to look at it from a cold economical shallow level hot women can easily outdraw men in wrestling. Most guys would choose watching Jamie, Anna Jay, Toni, etc over boring dudes like Lethal and his crew. 

All of them are terrible in the ring in your opinion? Jamie, Shida, Riho, Deeb, Athena, Toni and Thunder Rosa suck to you? You're entitled to your opinion of course but the majority of fans don't agree with it at all.


----------



## CovidFan

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> All of them are terrible in the ring in your opinion? Jamie, Shida, Riho, Deeb, Athena, Toni and Thunder Rosa suck to you? You're entitled to your opinion of course but the majority of fans don't agree with it at all.


 Of course I'm being hyperbolic saying they're all terrible. I don't think there are enough good women to keep a women's division around which is why I say scrap it. I think Jamie, Shida are fine. Riho's good. Deeb I really don't know her. Athena is god fucking awful from the times I've seen her on Dynamite. Toni's good. Thunder's bad. I'm cool if people disagree but I'll give it a more focused watch for a bit and see if they can change my mind. 



> Most guys would choose watching Jamie, Anna Jay, Toni, etc over boring dudes like Lethal and his crew.


I don't understand this view from guys tbh. There are thousands of women showing their asses online. I watch wrestling for wrestling. To each their own.


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

CovidFan said:


> Of course I'm being hyperbolic saying they're all terrible. I don't think there are enough good women to keep a women's division around which is why I say scrap it. I think Jamie, Shida are fine. Riho's good. Deeb I really don't know her. Athena is god fucking awful from the times I've seen her on Dynamite. Toni's good. Thunder's bad. I'm cool if people disagree but I'll give it a more focused watch for a bit and see if they can change my mind.
> 
> I don't understand this view from guys tbh. There are thousands of women showing their asses online. I watch wrestling for wrestling. To each their own.


Tbf there are also thousands of generic bland dudes doing bang average wrestling online too. Besides if someone specifically wants to see Anna Jay or any other AEW women they can't replicate them with some random porn star. But yeah agree to disagree on this one.


----------



## Saintpat

So which principle wins out this week — post-PPV bump or night-before-Thanksgiving slump?

I figure the total audience number bounces back well but the demo doesn’t.

Be interesting to see.


----------



## CovidFan

Not talking porn stars though. Just women with asses, right? Almost every good looking woman on Instagram has photos of their ass. I'm sure IG ain't the only site where lots of woemn with lots makeup and clothes on showing their ass out there. None of the AEW women are special.

I'm not talking about "generic" women. I'm saying a lot of them are straight up bad wrestlers. At least the men have good coordination, don't botch in every single match, and can lay their moves in like it's a fight.

But we will agree to disagree. Just trying to get across my actual point again


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

.


----------



## 3venflow

Saintpat said:


> So which principle wins out this week — post-PPV bump or night-before-Thanksgiving slump?
> 
> I figure the total audience number bounces back well but the demo doesn’t.
> 
> Be interesting to see.


I had a look at the last three Thanksgiving period Dynamite ratings and compared them to the preceding show.

2021: 898,000 (down 86,000) / 0.31 (down 0.06)
2020: 712,000 (down 138,000) / 0.26 (down 0.11)
2019: 663,000 (down 230,000) / 0.26 (down 0.13)

2022 must have at least some chance of bucking that trend you'd think because of how the go-home show dropped. Also, the decreases have softened year on year. To follow the trend, it'll have to drop below 818,000 / 0.28 this week.


----------



## One Shed

Saintpat said:


> So which principle wins out this week — post-PPV bump or night-before-Thanksgiving slump?
> 
> I figure the total audience number bounces back well but the demo doesn’t.
> 
> Be interesting to see.


They pre-announced a trios match. That is a clear indicator to go be with your family and skip the show.


----------



## Not Lying

One Shed said:


> They pre-announced a trios match. That is a clear indicator to go be with your family and skip the show.


U don’t care about Jericho and Ishiiiiiii?


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> They pre-announced a trios match. That is a clear indicator to go be with your family and skip the show.





Not Lying said:


> U don’t care about Jericho and Ishiiiiiii?


Why would wrestling fans skip both of those awesome matches?

Death Triangle vs The Elite and Chris Jericho vs Tomohiro Ishii are both thrilling bangers that'll inevitably make for great TV.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 445,000
18-49: 0.14

Viewership slightly down, key demo up which meant they finished #17 on cable compared to #52 last week.

*Last two months*

11/11: 456,000 / 0.11
11/4: 455,000 / 0.14
10/28: 378,000 / 0.12
10/21: 480,000 / 0.13
10/14: 458,000 / 0.17
10/7: 404,000 / 0.13
9/30: 472,000 / 0.16
9/23: 522,000 / 0.17 (Grand Slam)

*AEW Countdown to Full Gear*

Viewers: 234,000
18-49: 0.06

#85 on cable.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Not Lying said:


> U don’t care about Jericho and Ishiiiiiii?


Do you think the general American audience is going to delay their travel plans or miss out on time with their families to watch two of fat old guys fake fight with no build behind it? 

The people running AEW have no idea what American audiences are interested in or want to see. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jones1

DammitChrist said:


> Why would wrestling fans skip both of those awesome matches?
> 
> Death Triangle vs The Elite and Chris Jericho vs Tomohiro Ishii are both thrilling bangers that'll inevitably make for great TV.


The average person doesn't care. Bunch of nobodies doing flips and then an old Jericho against some random bloke most haven't heard of.

Great TV...

EDIT: I've just realised they're doing 7 matches. So boring!


----------



## Fearless Viper

AEW is dying...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Fearless Viper said:


> AEW is dying...


michin


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595424987619409920


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> They pre-announced a trios match. That is a clear indicator to go be with your family and skip the show.


And yet, the sum total of viewership for the Elite’s trios matches are a positive 6k viewers over the course of nearly an hour. Maybe try telling Bryan Danielson to not lose 200k viewers in the second quarter hour, and the ratings will be fine.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> And yet, the sum total of viewership for the Elite’s trios matches are a positive 6k viewers over the course of nearly an hour. Maybe try telling Bryan Danielson to not lose 200k viewers in the second quarter hour, and the ratings will be fine.


Agreed, we should tell Tony not to book BD like just another guy losing to potted plants like Yuta and Garcia.


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> michin



Only 150k more people watch Dynamite with probably 100m spent in talent than watch this.













Ouch


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> Only 150k more people watch Dynamite with probably 100m spent in talent than watch this.
> 
> 
> View attachment 139850
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ouch


why do troll bois always think they make points with shit like this?

oh, only double the people watched this over raw, with 1% of the budget


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> why do troll bois always think they make points with shit like this?
> 
> oh, only double the people watched this over raw, with 1% of the budget
> 
> View attachment 139851



Tucks a good lookin cat. Agreed. Thx for pix


----------



## Aedubya

No figures for this week?


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Aedubya said:


> No figures for this week?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595424987619409920


----------



## 3venflow

Full Gear grossed approximately $7.5m according to Meltzer (global PPV buys, ticket sales, theater, merch).

TK was asked in the media scrum about moving branded events to streaming and following the WWE format ($9.99/month for everything), and he said the PPV model is very profitable so they'll continue with this approach.

The dilemma with AEW on streaming is they don't have a huge library like WWE does (old WWF/E, WCW, ECW, etc.) to keep people interested between shows. He has ROH and AEW's backlog, and could potentially make an offer for the TNA library as well as some minor libraries (PWG, CZW, some defunct but historic Japanese groups like FMW and All Japan Women's), but it's still not comparable. Moreover, WWE does at least one PLE per month to keep people paying $9.99, so AEW would have to change its big show model as right now they're on 4+1 (Forbidden Door) PPVs per year.


----------



## Aedubya

Why no Ratings for this week's dynamite?


----------



## 3venflow

Aedubya said:


> Why no Ratings for this week's dynamite?


Thanksgiving. They'll be out tomorrow.


----------



## IronMan8

WWE fans sitting there cackling like Bray Wyatt all weekend hitting refresh in this thread

We see you!


----------



## Scuba Steve

IronMan8 said:


> WWE fans sitting there cackling like Bray Wyatt all weekend hitting refresh in this thread
> 
> We see you!


I am sure they will be loud and proud as I don't expect a great number being last week was the night before Thanksgiving in the US. It's a big "go out drinking" night in the US and also sees a lot of people traveling to be with family and friends for the long holiday weekend.


----------



## Kishido

Excuses are only for AEW as it seems


----------



## La Parka

Let’s not forget about that new all night gas station that just opened up down the road


----------



## Kishido

And the soccer world cup


----------



## CovidFan

Kishido said:


> Excuses are only for AEW as it seems


I think everyone's accepted RAW's "excuse" of MNF for two decades now. That being said, if AEW didn't surpass their debut number of 1.4 million people, it's obviously time to cancel Dynamite.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Scuba Steve said:


> I am sure they will be loud and proud as I don't expect a great number being last week was the night before Thanksgiving in the US. It's a big "go out drinking" night in the US and also sees a lot of people traveling to be with family and friends for the long holiday weekend.


ahhhh already wit the excuses lmao


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

It's objectively true that Thanksgiving/holidays travel and the like have affected ratings in the past. Acknowledging that reality doesn't fit the agenda of some though. And the beat goes on...


----------



## RapShepard

SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE said:


> It's objectively true that Thanksgiving/holidays travel and the like have affected ratings in the past. Acknowledging that reality doesn't fit the agenda of some though. And the beat goes on...


It's because there's pretty much always a reason beyond "maybe folk didn't want to watch" that's trotted out. There's always going to be other shows and world events happening. You can't chalk every decline up to everybody else, but yet attribute every rise to just plain old good TV. 

And yes Raw deserves 0 flak for getting such a chunk took out by MNF. They know every year the NFL is coming, write more exciting shows less people are inclined to tune out.


----------



## 3venflow

RAW dropped from a 5.5 to 4.9 in Thanksgiving week 1998 and from 6.3 to 5.5 in Thanksgiving week 1999, so even (arguably) the hottest product ever was impacted by the holiday.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 880,000
18-49: 0.32

The first time Dynamite has ever managed to go up rather than down on Thanksgiving, helped by the week before being unexpectedly low.

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

11/16: 818,000 / 0.28
11/9: 930,000 / 0.32
11/2: 911,000 / 0.29
10/26: 997,000 / 0.31
10/18: 752,000 / 0.26
10/12: 983,000 / 0.32
10/5: 1,038,000 / 0.33
9/28: 990,000 / 0.34



3venflow said:


> I had a look at the last three Thanksgiving period Dynamite ratings and compared them to the preceding show.
> 
> 2021: 898,000 (down 86,000) / 0.31 (down 0.06)
> 2020: 712,000 (down 138,000) / 0.26 (down 0.11)
> 2019: 663,000 (down 230,000) / 0.26 (down 0.13)


----------



## CovidFan

That's pretty shocking. Losers taking time out from being with their family to watch Dynamite. People must've loved Full Gear


----------



## VamosRamos




----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Decent to pretty good, comparable to last year. Wish it were better. Nice to see it increase, at least.

I will be curious to see how Winter Is Coming performs because it has done very well the last two years but AEW doesn't feel "hot" right now.


----------



## Christopher Near

Everyone went to go see miros new movie that people keep saying hes filming


----------



## RapShepard

So they actually go up, so holidays aren't excuses


----------



## RainmakerV2

Not bad for Thanksgiving I suppose. Sucks MJF couldn't be there though if people tuned in for him.


----------



## CovidFan

RapShepard said:


> So they actually go up, so holidays aren't excuses


tbf, the prior weeks show was really really really fucking bad.


----------



## kingfunkel

Surprised it didn't hit a million, due to the fall out with Regal, MJF and Mox. Maybe they did but once they found out MJF was Mia, they just stopped watching or DVR'd it. Quaters will be interesting


----------



## Rankles75

Not bad, all things considered.


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite finished sixth on cable behind the World Cup and basketball.

BTW, The Challenge has fallen quite a lot this year. It used to be Dynamite's main non-sports rival in the Nielsen rankings.


----------



## VamosRamos

Pictures proving Jericho and Moxley are draws


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## Geeee

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 880,000
> 18-49: 0.32
> 
> The first time Dynamite has ever managed to go up rather than down on Thanksgiving, helped by the week before being unexpectedly low.
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 11/16: 818,000 / 0.28
> 11/9: 930,000 / 0.32
> 11/2: 911,000 / 0.29
> 10/26: 997,000 / 0.31
> 10/18: 752,000 / 0.26
> 10/12: 983,000 / 0.32
> 10/5: 1,038,000 / 0.33
> 9/28: 990,000 / 0.34


It's really boring that this year's Thanksgiving Dynamite has an almost identical rating to last year's. How am I supposed to jump to dramatic conclusions over numbers like this?


----------



## Geeee

3venflow said:


> View attachment 140479


WTF it's just a straight line. How boring is that?


----------



## Serious_frusting

Booker of the year. -_-
AEW: I do like wrestling and this program has so mutch potential but yet it bores me. The wrestlers I enjoy are rarely on. Every segment lives in its own bubble and does not affect the rest of the show. 
TNA at its peak was a car wreck buck at least it was entertaining.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Jericho-Ishii grows in both viewers and demo and is the highest demo save the 1st quarter.

The Demo God has returned LOL


----------



## Hotdiggity11

This low ratings on Thanksgiving Eve thing was a myth anyways. Seriously, not that most people are doing anything different from any other Wednesday night on Thanksgiving Eve. 😂


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Kishido said:


> And the soccer world cup


Don't World Cup Match Days end by like 5pm eastern?


----------



## RLT1981

hahaha 800,000 coming off a suppose great ppv. lol

AEW is dead noone cares anymore and its Tony's fault with his shit booking.


----------



## Blonde

3venflow said:


> View attachment 140479


I’m guessing Jeribloat’s match was turned into some kind of drinking game because who would willingly tune back in for that trash.

Side note: so much for those guaranteed ra ra ratings brought in by the Bucks. Would have been 600k if they booked themselves in the main event.


----------



## Itiswhatitis

So this is 2 weeks in a row that the company has done less than 900,000 viewers. I guess CM Punk is the last one laughing as the elite cry in their tears of low ratings 😂


----------



## Gn1212

3venflow said:


> View attachment 140479


I hope now we can put to bed Tony's theory about OC being a massive draw. The guy got some extra views on YouTube early on but his schtick is not funny anymore, hasn't been for some time.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Could just be the holidays. Smackdown was somewhat lower than it had been too.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Last weeks rating was awful but this being the Thanksgiving Eve episode that is a solid number really considering the demo was on par with when they were drawing around a Million viewers.


----------



## IronMan8

Jake's purple hat increased viewership by 10% in a week that usually drops by 10%

Hat is therefore worth about 20% of the key demo, which represents over 50% of total viewers watching from the new gas station up the road 

Hat phenomenon confirmed!


----------



## Joe Gill

lets be real.... the only thing that is a draw in aew right now is the main event program involving mjf and moxley. No one other than a few hundred thousand hardcore nerds care about anything else. Go look at the youtube views from last weeks dynamite...the moxley/regal segment has over a million views... all the other segments are in the 200-300k range.


----------



## Jay Trotter

Night before Thanksgiving wasn't a Post PPV episode in 19-21 so making the comparison to past years is a misleading one. Show kicked off much stronger this week in the opening than the Go Home show the week before so the audience was there to start out and came back a bit for the main event. No surprise to see The Elite losing viewers once again albeit a small drop. All those promo teasers in recent episodes (and weekend comeback) should've resulted in an increase over decrease. 0-3 is the quarter hour score for them in these trio matches on Dynamite in 22. If the 9 month reunion of these non stars couldn't draw flies to crap, it was very unlikely the 2 month reunion would either even with the extra buzz Punk gave them. It's like they didn't get the message the first time they trolled Punk when Jericho vs Colt lost 140,000 viewers to open Hour 2. But keep on catering to the small vocal niche by booking to take shots at the guy cause it's worked wonders for the ratings so far.


----------



## Wolf Mark

VamosRamos said:


>


AEW 900 is the new TNA 1.1


----------



## Jay Trotter

Joe Gill said:


> lets be real.... the only thing that is a draw in aew right now is the main event program involving mjf and moxley. No one other than a few hundred thousand hardcore nerds care about anything else. Go look at the youtube views from last weeks dynamite...the moxley/regal segment has over a million views... all the other segments are in the 200-300k range.


Yep. The Elite vs Death Triangle can't even hit 400K for the all the pomp and circumstance of their latest big return. Punk, Mox, and MJF have tons of videos over 1 million on the AEW channel. It's easily their most viewed content with those three over these 3 1/2 years. It's like promos and characters matter more than ballet class spotfests.


----------



## DammitChrist

3venflow said:


> View attachment 140479


ROH-related matches and NJPW guys both capable of increasing the viewership confirmed.


----------



## DammitChrist

Jay Trotter said:


> Yep. The Elite vs Death Triangle can't even hit 400K for the all the pomp and circumstance of their latest big return. Punk, Mox, and MJF have tons of videos over 1 million on the AEW channel. It's easily their most viewed content with those three over these 3 1/2 years. It's like promos and characters matter more than ballet class spotfests.


Nah, the wrestling matches/workrate matter BIG time too.

The successful Forbidden Door ppv that drew more than expected (while selling out the arena entirely) is a MAJOR example that already debunks your anti-wrestling myth.

For the record, a decent portion of the wrestling audience tuned out once the GREAT match with Death Triangle vs The Elite ended too. Just check out the dip after that awesome match ended.

Chris Jericho vs Tomohiro Ishii brought back some of those wrestling fans because (believe it or not) people actually want to see good matches/workrate


----------



## DammitChrist

Jay Trotter said:


> Night before Thanksgiving wasn't a Post PPV episode in 19-21 so making the comparison to past years is a misleading one. Show kicked off much stronger this week in the opening than the Go Home show the week before so the audience was there to start out and came back a bit for the main event. No surprise to see The Elite losing viewers once again albeit a small drop. All those promo teasers in recent episodes (and weekend comeback) should've resulted in an increase over decrease. 0-3 is the quarter hour score for them in these trio matches on Dynamite in 22. If the 9 month reunion of these non stars couldn't draw flies to crap, it was very unlikely the 2 month reunion would either even with the extra buzz Punk gave them. It's like they didn't get the message the first time they trolled Punk when Jericho vs Colt lost 140,000 viewers to open Hour 2. But keep on catering to the small vocal niche by booking to take shots at the guy cause it's worked wonders for the ratings so far.


Sure, it's not like the Elite's match against Death Triangle helped keep the ratings steady, and that there wasn't a significant decline that occurred *AFTER* the audience finished watching that awesome match-up between those 6 men. 

For the record, nah, they should continue catering to the workrate audience since AEW has been a successful company over the last 3+ years, so they shouldn't change anything that isn't broken in the first place


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Dynamite finished sixth on cable behind the World Cup and basketball.
> 
> BTW, The Challenge has fallen quite a lot this year. It used to be Dynamite's main non-sports rival in the Nielsen rankings.
> 
> View attachment 140477


i mean, not bad


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

DammitChrist said:


> Sure, it's not like the Elite's match against Death Triangle helped keep the ratings steady, and that there wasn't a significant decline that occurred *AFTER* the audience finished watching that awesome match-up between those 6 men.
> 
> For the record, nah, they should continue catering to the workrate audience since AEW has been a successful company over the last 3+ years, so they shouldn't change anything that isn't broken in the first place


Out of the Buckaroos and Kenneth which of the Elite would you say is the dreamiest?


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> View attachment 140479


Jim Cornette and his idiot followers will still scream that The Elite lost “hundreds of thousands” of viewers, because they love to lie to try and discredit what The Elite did without ever needing to bow at the knee to Vince like certain tatted-up, meth head, Negan cosplayers. 


Hotdiggity11 said:


> This low ratings on Thanksgiving Eve thing was a myth anyways. Seriously, not that most people are doing anything different from any other Wednesday night on Thanksgiving Eve. 😂


I won’t pretend to know your age or background, but I can assure you most of West Virginia is deep in the thicket of the woods hunting deer all Thanksgiving week as it is the only week of the year for gun hunting.

Outside the bubble of WV, the day before Thanksgiving is full of people travelong back to their hometowns to spend the holidays with their families, and Thanksgiving Eve, specifically, is known as Blackout Wednesday for a reason as most people don’t have to work the next day and are getting together with old friends and family for the first time all year.



Rhhodes said:


> I’m guessing Jeribloat’s match was turned into some kind of drinking game because who would willingly tune back in for that trash.
> 
> Side note: so much for those guaranteed ra ra ratings brought in by the Bucks. Would have been 600k if they booked themselves in the main event.


Still won’t stop you and those of your ilk from claiming they lost hundreds of thousands of viewers…🤷🏼‍♂️


----------



## Kishido

Awesome ratings! Thought they would be at 600k because of Thanks Giving


----------



## HoneyBee

Tony Khan Reveals New AEW Dynamite Viewership Record In the UK


AEW reportedly set a new record for Dynamite TV viewership in the UK earlier this month. AEW President, CEO, General Manager & Head of Creative Tony Khan




wrestlingheadlines.com




The upcoming London shows are gonna sell out fast, mark my words. Bear in mind that these numbers are for a show which broadcasts 2 days after live airing, and do not include FITE figures or illegal stream numbers.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Impressive for AEW


----------



## thatonewwefanguy

Spoiler



only 210000?


That's it? Was expecting a wee bit bigger.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Too bad we can't say that about the US..


----------



## Dickhead1990

Sounds about right. These are huge numbers for the UK! I agree that these shows will sell out immediately.


----------



## 3venflow

thatonewwefanguy said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> only 210000?
> 
> 
> That's it? Was expecting a wee bit bigger.


USA has roughly five times more people than the UK. So that is the equivalent of 1.05m in the USA for a show that is two-days delayed (aired Friday) and on the fourth channel of ITV. Many serious fans in the UK watch it on FITE TV which airs it live/on-demand.

It recently got promoted to 9pm on Fridays from 11pm~ which probably helps a bit.


----------



## NathanMayberry

HoneyBee said:


> Tony Khan Reveals New AEW Dynamite Viewership Record In the UK
> 
> 
> AEW reportedly set a new record for Dynamite TV viewership in the UK earlier this month. AEW President, CEO, General Manager & Head of Creative Tony Khan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wrestlingheadlines.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The upcoming London shows are gonna sell out fast, mark my words. Bear in mind that these numbers are for a show which broadcasts 2 days after live airing, and do not include FITE figures or illegal stream numbers.





3venflow said:


> USA has roughly five times more people than the UK. So that is the equivalent of 1.05m in the USA for a show that is two-days delayed (aired Friday) and on the fourth channel of ITV. Many serious fans in the UK watch it on FITE TV which airs it live/on-demand.
> 
> It recently got promoted to 9pm on Fridays from 11pm~ which probably helps a bit.


The numbers aren't just live viewers, they include those who watch VOD same day and between 1 and 7 days after the broadcast.

Here's a report for the week after.









Top programmes report


The top 50 programmes on TV based on the size of their total viewing audience over the week (including live, VOSDAL, time-shifted and total audience viewing figures).




www.thinkbox.tv





Dynamite had 147K total but had 43K people watching it when it originally aired, 9K who watched it on the same day and 95K who watched it within 7 days.


----------



## DUD

NathanMayberry said:


> The numbers aren't just live viewers, they include those who watch VOD same day and between 1 and 7 days after the broadcast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a report for the week after.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top programmes report
> 
> 
> The top 50 programmes on TV based on the size of their total viewing audience over the week (including live, VOSDAL, time-shifted and total audience viewing figures).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thinkbox.tv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dynamite had 147K total but had 43K people watching it when it originally aired, 9K who watched it on the same day and 95K who watched it within 7 days.


I was going to say, I couldn't imagine them hitting as many live viewers as the article suggested given they would be up against I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage *(4pm ET/3pm CT start time)

Viewers: 411,000
18-49: 0.11

*Last two months*

11/18: 445,000 / 0.14
11/11: 456,000 / 0.11
11/4: 455,000 / 0.14
10/28: 378,000 / 0.12
10/21: 480,000 / 0.13
10/14: 458,000 / 0.17
10/7: 404,000 / 0.13
9/30: 472,000 / 0.16


----------



## yeahbaby!

Good work, time to expand in that market.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage *(4pm ET/3pm CT start time)
> 
> Viewers: 411,000
> 18-49: 0.11
> 
> *Last two months*
> 
> 11/18: 445,000 / 0.14
> 11/11: 456,000 / 0.11
> 11/4: 455,000 / 0.14
> 10/28: 378,000 / 0.12
> 10/21: 480,000 / 0.13
> 10/14: 458,000 / 0.17
> 10/7: 404,000 / 0.13
> 9/30: 472,000 / 0.16


For a 1 pm start time out here that rating is _exceptional._


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage finished #43 on cable last Friday in its afternoon timeslot.



ripcitydisciple said:


> For a 1 pm start time out here that rating is _exceptional._


I was expecting far fewer viewers because last time they were shifted to an early start (5:30pm ET/4:30pm CT) on May 6th, they did 292,000 with the same demo rating (0.11).


----------



## Saintpat

Not bad considering.


----------



## IronMan8

Please, AEW... please don't end your big UK show with Pac having a karaoke contest with Mike Tyson!


----------



## VamosRamos




----------



## GarpTheFist

Wait why did the show 2 weeks ago get only 811k? Was it opposie something big?


----------



## IronMan8

GarpTheFist said:


> Wait why did the show 2 weeks ago get only 811k? Was it opposie something big?


It was on a Tuesday one week, but I can't remember if that was the one


----------



## 3venflow

WWE content, but this may be the best example yet of how commercials affect wrestling ratings (hour one was ad-free). As soon as that first ad break hit...


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 870,000
18-49: 0.26

Bad demo rating for them compared to their standard.

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

11/23: 880,000 / 0.32
11/16: 818,000 / 0.28
11/9: 930,000 / 0.32
11/2: 911,000 / 0.29
10/26: 997,000 / 0.31
10/18: 752,000 / 0.26
10/12: 983,000 / 0.32
10/5: 1,038,000 / 0.33


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598433220126711820


----------



## Mr316

The result of many very bad weeks/months of television. Tony Khan has only himself to blame. Keep listening to the AEW marks on the internet Tony.


----------



## RainmakerV2

0.26 with MJFs debut as champ?




Holy eeek


----------



## VamosRamos




----------



## Mr316

Good looking crowd also last night.










Everything is fine folks. Thank god Tony Khan signed AR Fox.


----------



## 3venflow

0.26 is the lowest demo on a Wednesday for Dynamite since it went unopposed last year.

Still waiting for Showbuzz to see where it ranked against other cable shows.


----------



## DammitChrist

There must have been a power surge or something last night.



Mr316 said:


> Good looking crowd also last night.
> 
> View attachment 140659
> 
> 
> Everything is fine folks. Thank god Tony Khan signed AR Fox.


Everything *is* actually fine, and their roster benefits from having a great worker like AR Fox train their younger talents behind the scenes.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598436417088196608
@RapShepard *you've been trying to tell me all year that Punk didn't make much of a difference. I've been telling you all year that no one gives a fuck about The Elite's clusterfuck tag team matches, and here we are. Your guys came back after 3 month hiatus to lose 200,000 viewers.*


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> There must have been a power surge or something last night.
> 
> 
> 
> Everything *is* actually fine, and their roster benefits from having a great worker like AR Fox train their younger talents behind the scenes.



Lol we're resorting to power outages now


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Lol we're resorting to power outages now


Nah, it's a perfectly valid explanation since the show was great last night


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Cant wait for Jericho to say demo don't matter no more lmao


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

DammitChrist said:


> There must have been a power surge or something last night.
> 
> 
> 
> Everything *is* actually fine, and their roster benefits from having a great worker like AR Fox train their younger talents behind the scenes.


Keep on trollin buddy


----------



## Omos=Next Big Thing

Damn I didn´t know that you celebrate Thanksgiving a whole week in the United States. 
This can be the only explanation for this viewership.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, it's a perfectly valid explanation since the show was great last night



I mean I do respect the fact that you're a fan of workrate and it's what you like but now it's just blatant trolling.


----------



## Mr316

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> Cant wait for Jericho to say demo don't matter no more lmao


Jericho will say the ratings tanked because he wasn’t on the show.


----------



## Mr316

That’s also what happens when the week prior you close the show with a random fat Japanese wrestler and Jericho and don’t give your audience a single reason to tune in next week.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Who would have thought having the same 20 minute trios match EVERY WEEK would get boring to people? I mean WHO would have thought?


----------



## VamosRamos




----------



## Mr316

RainmakerV2 said:


> Who would have thought having the same 20 minute trios match EVERY WEEK would get boring to people? I mean WHO would have thought?


The person in charge of the company is an absolute clown and he’s getting what he deserves.


----------



## Christopher Near

Mjfs promos are all the same

The fact he basically still wants to go to wwe and keep mentioning triple h and nick khan does aew no favors even if he's a heel.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*The rise and fall of AEW documentary will be hosted on the Jim Cornette experience.*


----------



## Mr316

It’s okay we’re getting 150 pounds Ricky Starks vs MJF in two weeks. That will put butts in seats 😂😂😂


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

RainmakerV2 said:


> Lol we're resorting to power outages now


In my case I lost my remote.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Mr316 said:


> The person in charge of the company is an absolute clown and he’s getting what he deserves.



You know how they pitched that shit. 

"Hey Tony, if we do a best of 7 with 7 5 star Meltzer classics, it'll definitely raise belt prestige and we'll prove the trios division is the best in the world!"


No one gives a fuck about any of that shit besides an even small minority of the wrestling bubble. No one gives a fuck about Bryan going 20 minutes with bald FTR in a match with no build or meaning. No one cares. And even the demo that used to care seems like they don't care anymore.


----------



## Not Lying

Piss off more Punk fans motheefuckers.


----------



## Mr316

RainmakerV2 said:


> You know how they pitched that shit.
> 
> "Hey Tony, if we do a best of 7 with 7 5 star Meltzer classics, it'll definitely raise belt prestige and we'll prove the trios division is the best in the world!"
> 
> 
> No one gives a fuck about any of that shit besides an even small minority of the wrestling bubble. No one gives a fuck about Bryan going 20 minutes with bald FTR in a match with no build or meaning. No one cares. And even the demo that used to care seems like they don't care anymore.


Yep. Basically, Tony Khan has zero understanding of what has potential to draw ratings because he’s too much of a fucking mark. He would have put Dean Malenko in a main event over Hogan and Goldberg in 97. He simply fucking doesn’t get it.


----------



## The real Axel

DammitChrist said:


> There must have been a power surge or something last night.
> 
> 
> 
> Everything *is* actually fine, and their roster benefits from having a great worker like AR Fox train their younger talents behind the scenes.


Something tells me there's gonna be a lot more "power surges" to come.


----------



## VamosRamos

This is a great number considering that World Cup was on 5 hours before


----------



## Omos=Next Big Thing

Here is how to solve the problem. Next week Chris Jericho will defend the Ring of Honor title against somebody who never appeared in AEW before. But it has to be someone from Japan or somebody who was relevant in ROH 5-10 years ago.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Mr316 said:


> Yep. Basically, Tony Khan has zero understanding of what has potential to draw ratings because he’s too much of a fucking mark. He would have put Dean Malenko in a main event over Hogan and Goldberg in 97. He simply fucking doesn’t get it.



I liked what they did on the show last night. Some of it. Opening with the brawl, following up on it, MJF turning on Regal, Jade wearing next to nothing. I mean there was actually some sex appeal last night and SHIT HAPPENED. But the show for months has been soooooo mundane with nothing ever happening that I don't know if they're getting people back. I mean this is MJFs first show as champ. The guy who's supposed to rule the demo. That's bad. Like, bad.


----------



## Mr316

RainmakerV2 said:


> I liked what they did on the show last night. Some of it. Opening with the brawl, following up on it, MJF turning on Regal, Jade wearing next to nothing. I mean there was actually some sex appeal last night and SHIT HAPPENED. But the show for months has been soooooo mundane with nothing ever happening that I don't know if they're getting people back. I mean this is MJFs first show as champ. The guy who's supposed to rule the demo. That's bad. Like, bad.


Agree. Last night was probably their best show in months but…it’s been god awful for many months and they’ve lost some fans.


----------



## La Parka

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598436158366961664
bucks and knicks played last night. clearly the reason for the weak number.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> That’s also what happens when the week prior you close the show with a random fat Japanese wrestler and Jericho and don’t give your audience a single reason to tune in next week.


Huh? 

Tomohiro Ishii is one of NJPW's best wrestlers who probably outworks at least 90% of the roster at his age, and that tremendous main event against Chris Jericho actually GAINED in viewership too.



RainmakerV2 said:


> Who would have thought having the same 20 minute trios match EVERY WEEK would get boring to people? I mean WHO would have thought?


Yes, how dare a competent wrestling promotion give the majority of the AEW audience what they want, which was an epic main event that featured great *wrestling *(featuring Death Triangle vs The Elite) where everyone else enjoyed that banger.


----------



## RainmakerV2

La Parka said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598436158366961664
> bucks and knicks played last night. clearly the reason for the weak number.



Ho Lee shit


----------



## Lenny Leonard

Lol


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> You know how they pitched that shit.
> 
> "Hey Tony, if we do a best of 7 with 7 5 star Meltzer classics, it'll definitely raise belt prestige and we'll prove the trios division is the best in the world!"
> 
> 
> No one gives a fuck about any of that shit besides an even small minority of the wrestling bubble. No one gives a fuck about Bryan going 20 minutes with bald FTR in a match with no build or meaning. No one cares. And even the demo that used to care seems like they don't care anymore.


Except for the fact that a great portion of AEW audience clearly cared about watching that great opening match with Dax Harwood vs Bryan Danielson (which delivered btw), so that automatically debunks your misleading assumption of 'nobody' caring about their dream match-up. 

It's mindblowing how having 5-star matches and epic wrestling classics is somehow worth being frowned upon here. It's almost like we should resort to watching 2-star matches and mediocre contests instead.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> Yep. Basically, Tony Khan has zero understanding of what has potential to draw ratings because he’s too much of a fucking mark. He would have put Dean Malenko in a main event over Hogan and Goldberg in 97. He simply fucking doesn’t get it.


Sure, that explains why 2022 has been very stable for AEW with many Dynamite episodes actually drawing ratings that are actually *up* from last year 

Tony Khan clearly gets it, dude.


----------



## DammitChrist

Lenny Leonard said:


> Lol


Yea, the silence from your end was amusing once it turned out that the segment with Damage Control (especially Bayley) drew a high quarterly number this week, and once Full Gear inevitably blew Survivor Series out of the water quality-wise


----------



## VamosRamos




----------



## CenaBoy4Life

870k!! LOL

This company is dead. The elite are killing AEW. MJF sucks and every other division is a mess with ROH crap.

Punk was really the only thing keep this going.


----------



## DammitChrist

CenaBoy4Life said:


> 870k!! LOL
> 
> This company is dead. The elite are killing AEW. MJF sucks and every other division is a mess with ROH crap.
> 
> Punk was really the only thing keep this going.


Huh?

The Elite is a BIG reason why this company even exists in the first place 😂


----------



## rich110991

Imagine being happy that the ratings aren’t “high”. Get a life 😂


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> Except for the fact that a great portion of AEW audience clearly cared about watching that great opening match with Dax Harwood vs Bryan Danielson (which delivered btw), so that automatically debunks your misleading assumption of 'nobody' caring about their dream match-up.
> 
> It's mindblowing how having 5-star matches and epic wrestling classics is somehow worth being frowned upon here. It's almost like we should resort to watching 2-star matches and mediocre contests instead.



Dude even the hardcore AEW marks on r/sc are shitting all over the best of 7 series. It's nonsense. It would be one thing if they had gimmicks attached to the matches. Maybe one match is a ladder, maybe one is an Ironman, maybe one is falls count anywhere. Hell maybe one is a parking lot brawl like they did with LAX and the best friends (which was great btw.) Who wants to watch the same exact match 7 weeks in a row? It's not like any of them are gonna go 5 minutes and get out the way. You know they're all going 15 plus with all the same spots.


----------



## Mr316

rich110991 said:


> Imagine being happy that the ratings aren’t “high”. Get a life 😂


Yes. Because the product fucking sucks and needs change before it’s too late and we’re stuck with only fucking WWE again. Imagine that.


----------



## kingfunkel

Time to call up Punk, offer him an EVP position and put him on screen as colour commentator.. Till he recovers. It's clear he adds 300k alone.
If MJF's first TV appearence since winning the championship, isn't doing the numbers. The elite aren't bringing in the 1m. It's clobbering time.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Dude even the hardcore AEW marks on r/sc are shitting all over the best of 7 series. It's nonsense. It would be one thing if they had gimmicks attached to the matches. Maybe one match is a ladder, maybe one is an Ironman, maybe one is falls count anywhere. Hell maybe one is a parking lot brawl like they did with LAX and the best friends (which was great btw.) Who wants to watch the same exact match 7 weeks in a row? It's not like any of them are gonna go 5 minutes and get out the way. You know they're all going 15 plus with all the same spots.


It's 2 of the best trios groups in the company battling against each other multiple times (where ALL 6 men are great professional wrestlers), and they're telling a good story in those contests too (which is an aspect of the industry that keeps getting criticized years later).

When you have a Best of 7 Series where Penta El Zero Miedo is the 'weakest' guy in terms of in-ring ability (even though he's still a great wrestler), that's when you *know* that you'll have killer matches that could be a MOTY candidate.

I would say the same if we got a Best of 7 Series with Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle, Bryan Danielson vs CM Punk, AJ Styles vs Seth Rollins, Asuka vs Charlotte Flair, and Kazuchika Okada vs Will Ospreay.

They wouldn't even need a stipulation for those 7+ matches. Wrestling fans can watch a Best of 7 Series featuring any of these match-ups, and it'll never get old since every aforementioned name is great in the ring.



Mr316 said:


> Yes. Because the product fucking sucks and needs change before it’s too late and we’re stuck with only fucking WWE again. Imagine that.


Nah, the product is actually awesome 

I'll pass to the idea of making any major changes. That's an automatic no buys that'll easily disorient the AEW audience. Let's not make any dramatic changes


----------



## DammitChrist

kingfunkel said:


> Time to call up Punk, offer him an EVP position and put him on screen as colour commentator.. Till he recovers. It's clear he adds 300k alone.
> If MJF's first TV appearence since winning the championship, isn't doing the numbers. The elite aren't bringing in the 1m. It's clobbering time.


Bringing back CM Punk is the *ONLY *major change that's acceptable.

Otherwise, they should just continue what they're doing with their good product.


----------



## Saintpat

RainmakerV2 said:


> I liked what they did on the show last night. Some of it. Opening with the brawl, following up on it, MJF turning on Regal, Jade wearing next to nothing. I mean there was actually some sex appeal last night and SHIT HAPPENED. But the show for months has been soooooo mundane with nothing ever happening that I don't know if they're getting people back. I mean this is MJFs first show as champ. The guy who's supposed to rule the demo. That's bad. Like, bad.


First off, WHY is this MJF’s first show as champ? Why wasn’t he on the next episode after becoming champ? It’s a full 10 days after he won it.

Then he comes on and says (for the upteenth time) how great WWE is. 

I missed the rest of the show flipping channels to find the wrestling show the AEW champ is telling me is better than the show he’s on.


----------



## Chan Hung

Right now Tony Khan is backstage thinking, how the hell can i scrap this 7 match buck match and just have Punk do 7 matches.

Seriously though, this show needs a major re haul. It's getting worse than better. Time to make those changes. It looks like getting rid of most of your casual audience and catering to the small segment will end the end be the nail in the coffin if they don't fix things up fast.


----------



## Cosmo77

Now i know Death Triangle and The Elite are good wrestlers.but i agree this best of 7 series is boring,but at least it keeps The elite occupied


----------



## RLT1981

another bad rating lol cant't even get 900,000 viewers anymore.

and no hoiliday excuse this time its just what i've been saying this company is dead has no hype around it and its all cause of Tony Kahn and his bad booking.

Its just sad at this point to see how hot they was this time last year and Tony has thrown it all a way.


----------



## Chan Hung

RLT1981 said:


> another bad rating lol cant't even get 900,000 viewers anymore.
> 
> and no hoiliday excuse this time its just what i've been saying this company is dead has no hype around it and its all cause of Tony Kahn and his bad booking.
> 
> Its just sad at this point to see how hot they was this time last year and Tony has thrown it all a way.


No excuse. Excactly. You can't spin this. The 7 series is an epic failure and having talents like Ishii and others who are out of shape and or indy jobber looking guys that only a few thousand enjoy won't work on mainstream TV.


----------



## Chan Hung

RainmakerV2 said:


> You know how they pitched that shit.
> 
> "Hey Tony, if we do a best of 7 with 7 5 star Meltzer classics, it'll definitely raise belt prestige and we'll prove the trios division is the best in the world!"
> 
> 
> No one gives a fuck about any of that shit besides an even small minority of the wrestling bubble. No one gives a fuck about Bryan going 20 minutes with bald FTR in a match with no build or meaning. No one cares. And even the demo that used to care seems like they don't care anymore.


It's definitely not gaining viewership. That is the biggest sign you need


----------



## DammitChrist

RLT1981 said:


> another bad rating lol cant't even get 900,000 viewers anymore.
> 
> and no hoiliday excuse this time its just what i've been saying this company is dead has no hype around it and its all cause of Tony Kahn and his bad booking.
> 
> Its just sad at this point to see how hot they was this time last year and Tony has thrown it all a way.


I remember being told back in June 2022 and even June 2021 that they'll never see 1+ million viewers ever again only for the misleading assumptions to immediately be proven wrong just over a month later in both cases where they ended up drawing a 4-6 week streak of drawing over a million fans each week.

Wrestling programming as a whole generally struggles on December; but it's strange how only WWE apparently has the ability to win back viewers gets the benefit of the doubt (because of the Road to Wrestlemania coming up soon) whereas AEW doesn't get that same optimistic treatment.

WWE (especially Raw) has the luxury of dealing with valid explanations for any ratings dips, but yet it's only 'excuses' when it comes to AEW.

Tony Khan didn't throw anything away btw, so your claim isn't accurate since the product is still hot atm


----------



## 3venflow

Last year's equivalent show (12/1/21) was headlined by Cody vs. Andrade with the (in)famous flaming table spot and did 861,000 and 0.31. Punk and Danielson also wrestled on the show. So fewer viewers but much better in the key demo, which is the most important metric. Last year, AEW's ratings popped back up towards Christmas time after quite a lull, be interesting if the same happens in 2022.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chan Hung said:


> No excuse. Excactly. You can't spin this. The 7 series is an epic failure and having talents like Ishii and others who are out of shape and or indy jobber looking guys that only a few thousand enjoy won't work on mainstream TV.


Dude, Tomohiro Ishii is in his mid 40s who's still able to outwork at least 90% of the current roster, and I bet that he's in better physical shape than 99% of us here.

He's an excellent wrestler who happens to be really tough too.

Anyway, the Best of 7 Series is far from a failure. In fact, it's truly a success because they're 3 for 3 in terms of sending the wrestling crowds home happy with 3 MOTYC-level bangers


----------



## endiadj

MJF and Jamie H bringing in those ratings!


----------



## RLT1981

DammitChrist said:


> I remember being told back in June 2022 and even June 2021 that they'll never see 1+ million viewers ever again only for the misleading assumptions to immediately be proven wrong just over a month later in both cases where they ended up drawing a 4-6 week streak of drawing over a million fans each week.
> 
> Wrestling programming as a whole generally struggles on December; but it's strange how only WWE apparently has the ability to win back viewers gets the benefit of the doubt (because of the Road to Wrestlemania coming up soon) whereas AEW doesn't get that same optimistic treatment.
> 
> WWE (especially Raw) has the luxury of dealing with valid explanations for any ratings dips, but yet it's only 'excuses' when it comes to AEW.
> 
> Tony Khan didn't throw anything away btw, so your claim isn't accurate since the product is still hot atm


WWE is redhot with the bloodline storyline and are getting over 2 million on smackdown and Raw will be back over 2 million once football is over with.

Time to face facts AEW has no excuses they are stale and Tony needs to step down as booker and get someone in that can be in touch with the audence that are not smarks.


----------



## RLT1981

endiadj said:


> MJF and Jamie H bringing in those ratings!


don't blame Jamie & MJF both of them are great its just Tony has killed this company that not even MJF can save them now,.


----------



## RapShepard

5 Star Giulia  said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598436417088196608
> @RapShepard *you've been trying to tell me all year that Punk didn't make much of a difference. I've been telling you all year that no one gives a fuck about The Elite's clusterfuck tag team matches, and here we are. Your guys came back after 3 month hiatus to lose 200,000 viewers.*


This would be a great point if Punk had them consistently doing over a million. Even with Punk them doing over a million was few and far between. So yeah no he's not the big massive difference you want him to seem like. They've been a distant 3rd with and with Punk.


----------



## VamosRamos




----------



## 3venflow

Meltzer's critique on AEW (for the 'Meltzer says nothing bad about AEW' sect who would be surprised if they listened to/read his stuff more) in relation to the ratings:










One thing I really agree on is less turns. AEW rarely did heel/face turns in its first couple of years, so that when they did one it felt like an event. Now it's happening all the time. I liked that stability/consistency in alignments.


----------



## DammitChrist

RLT1981 said:


> WWE is redhot with the bloodline storyline and are getting over 2 million on smackdown and Raw will be back over 2 million once football is over with.


Thanks for proving my point about the obvious hypocrisy 

One company is apparently given faith that they'll regain more viewers, but not for the other (on the month of December too which historically isn't known for being a strong month for weekly wrestling programs).

Time to face facts AEW has no excuses they are stale and Tony needs to step down as booker and get someone in that can be in touch with the audence that are not smarks.
[/QUOTE]

Thankfully, Tony Khan is already in touch with a good portion of the audience, and he won't be stepping down any time soon


----------



## RLT1981

RapShepard said:


> This would be a great point if Punk had them consistently doing over a million. Even with Punk them doing over a million was few and far between. So yeah no he's not the big massive difference you want him to seem like. They've been a distant 3rd with and with Punk.


should have put the title on Bryan when he first came in when he was hot instead of cowboy shit that was there first mistake.


----------



## 3venflow

Like many times recently, the sharpest drop was Q1 to Q2. Retention remains an issue in general, but the MJF promo did stray from the trend. There's usually one quarter every week that stops the decline, but then it continues.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

VamosRamos said:


> View attachment 140661


Which annoying no life rejoiner are you exactly? I am not on here for enough hours to decipher like some of the others can. 

Thank you for the assistance.


----------



## RapShepard

RLT1981 said:


> should have put the title on Bryan when he first came in when he was hot instead of cowboy shit that was there first mistake.


No Page was a right choice given the character arc. But theres no reason to believe Bryan would've made a major difference in viewership or even having a good storyline.


----------



## VamosRamos

3venflow said:


> Like many times recently, the sharpest drop was Q1 to Q2. Retention remains an issue in general, but the MJF promo did stray from the trend. There's usually one quarter every week that stops the decline, but then it continues.
> 
> View attachment 140672


Young Cucks and Omegle are huge draws


----------



## VamosRamos

ripcitydisciple said:


> Which annoying no life rejoiner are you exactly? I am not on here for enough hours to decipher like some of the others can.
> 
> Thank you for the assistance.


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> Bringing back CM Punk is the *ONLY *major change that's acceptable.
> 
> Otherwise, they should just continue what they're doing with their good product.


Is there a # of viewers where you'd say AEW has to change? 1 viewer? and still keep it the same cause it's you?


----------



## ripcitydisciple

VamosRamos said:


> View attachment 140675


Yes. I am asking you. That's right. Good to know you can follow basic instructions. Now tell me which rejoiner you are to complete the task. I know you can do it, I believe in you.


----------



## One Shed

The "Elite" and their trios crap chasing off viewers yet again.


----------



## RLT1981

[/QUOTE]


RapShepard said:


> No Page was a right choice given the character arc. But theres no reason to believe Bryan would've made a major difference in viewership or even having a good storyline.


IMO Page's reign started there downfall its not all on him the booking of his reign sucked and more proof Tony needs to step down as booker.


----------



## Mister Sinister

If we were gambling, I'd bet they go back up to 900k next week just because people will want to see if there is a change. Then, when the change doesn't happen, the ratings will drop down to low 800k or below.


----------



## VamosRamos

ripcitydisciple said:


> Yes. I am asking you. That's right. Good to know you can follow basic instructions. Now tell me which rejoiner you are to complete the task. I know you can do it, I believe in you.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Lol trios under 800k duh


----------



## Kabraxal

Can we now all agree Tony has a few problems and that one is clearly trying to appease the Elite and that niche fandom? Not only does the show tank after Q1, showing he can’t book that time to retain viewers, but he only has one soft rebound the entire show?

And gotta love the continued proof that the Elite do NOT draw. And Tony chose them over Punk. Great choice...


----------



## CovidFan

Mr316 said:


> Agree. Last night was probably their best show in months but…it’s been god awful for many months and they’ve lost some fans.


As much as DC doesn't want it to be the case, it seems that could be true because I thought last night would get 900k-999k since it was a pretty good show. 

I'm always shocked that The Elite don't drive ratings up a bit. Maybe the show needs Jericho every week...but I certainly don't


----------



## ripcitydisciple

VamosRamos said:


> View attachment 140676


How about you make me? You think I am afraid of some punk ass bitch like you? Ohh you have a Punisher avatar, I'm so scared. If you're such a bad ass come find me and kill me bitch.


----------



## RainmakerV2

ripcitydisciple said:


> How about you make me? You think I am afraid of some punk ass bitch like you? Ohh you have a Punisher avatar, I'm so scared. If you're such a bad ass come find me and kill me bitch.



Whoaa


----------



## RapShepard

IMO Page's reign started there downfall its not all on him the booking of his reign sucked and more proof Tony needs to step down as booker.[/QUOTE]Tony just seems bad with storytelling. So I don't think he'd have booked Bryan story well. Especially when Bryan is clearly happy to just be a wrestler having good matches.


----------



## VamosRamos

ripcitydisciple said:


> How about you make me? You think I am afraid of some punk ass bitch like you? Ohh you have a Punisher avatar, I'm so scared. If you're such a bad ass come find me and kill me bitch.


----------



## RLT1981

RapShepard said:


> IMO Page's reign started there downfall its not all on him the booking of his reign sucked and more proof Tony needs to step down as booker.


Tony just seems bad with storytelling. So I don't think he'd have booked Bryan story well. Especially when Bryan is clearly happy to just be a wrestler having good matches.
[/QUOTE]

yeah fair point


----------



## ripcitydisciple

VamosRamos said:


> View attachment 140677


That's what I thought.


----------



## VamosRamos

ripcitydisciple said:


> That's what I thought.


----------



## DammitChrist

VamosRamos said:


> View attachment 140675


Yes, it's already well-established that the bore's megapush occurred during a time where WWE lost at least 2+ million viewers ever since he became a singles competitor, so this is a strange flex to have here.


----------



## VamosRamos

DammitChrist said:


> Yes, it's already well-established that the bore's megapush occurred during a time where WWE lost at least 2+ million viewers ever since he became a singles competitor, so this is a strange flex to have here.


You rep a guy who's wife has more WM main events than him


----------



## Itiswhatitis

3 weeks in a row and no coincidence that the elite have not helped in the ratings 3 weeks in a row of declining ratings 😵‍💫🤣🤮


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> The "Elite" and their trios crap chasing off viewers yet again.





RainmakerV2 said:


> Lol trios under 800k duh
> 
> 
> Kabraxal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can we now all agree Tony has a few problems and that one is clearly trying to appease the Elite and that niche fandom? Not only does the show tank after Q1, showing he can’t book that time to retain viewers, but he only has one soft rebound the entire show?
> 
> And gotta love the continued proof that the Elite do NOT draw. And Tony chose them over Punk. Great choice...
Click to expand...

Nah, there's absolutely nothing for us to agree with here.

I like how we're conveniently ignoring the fact that the Elite's banger of a trios match against Death Triangle held the viewership steady just *last week*, and then there was a noticeable dip AFTER their match/segment finished; but yet a small dip (even though the difference between Q1 and Q2 for this week was much more dramatic) somehow disqualifies with them from being obvious draws when they're 3 of the men who helped build/start this company in the first place.

The Elite brought a good portion of wrestling fans of NJPW and ROH in 2019 into committing with AEW in the first place.


----------



## DammitChrist

Itiswhatitis said:


> 3 weeks in a row and no coincidence that the elite have not helped in the ratings 3 weeks in a row of declining ratings 😵‍💫🤣🤮


Last week automatically debunks your false assumption 



ripcitydisciple said:


> How about you make me? You think I am afraid of some punk ass bitch like you? Ohh you have a Punisher avatar, I'm so scared. If you're such a bad ass come find me and kill me bitch.


Woah, it's not that deep, dude.


----------



## La Parka

ripcitydisciple said:


> How about you make me? You think I am afraid of some punk ass bitch like you? Ohh you have a Punisher avatar, I'm so scared. If you're such a bad ass come find me and kill me bitch.


bahahah

Close this thread, we ain’t topping this.


----------



## The real Axel

Where's that clown always crowing about how The Elite are draws and posting that picture of their numbers with Danielson? Get in here bud


----------



## DammitChrist

The real Axel said:


> Where's that clown always crowing about how The Elite are draws and posting that picture of their numbers with Danielson? Get in here bud


The highest rated Dynamite episodes (which drew 1.1+ million viewers) in their short history literally has The Elite appear frequently in their highest-rated quarterly segments.

Why do folks continue to ignore this undisputed fact?

Feel free to go in further detail, @bdon since you're far more experienced/familiar with this argument 

Edit:

Again, the Elite is a BIG reason why many AEW/wrestling fans even tuned in to this company in the first place (especially in 2019). That prominent following doesn't just go away 3+ years later.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Last two shows have been fun, and they’ve had way worse shows than these that got higher ratings. 

Also Danielson dropping ratings shows that he’s basically just another guy now. Still a tremendous wrestler and all but him seemingly being happy with just working matches is to his detriment.

I’m enjoying the 7 match series overall. Hard for me to argue for it not existing if I like it though, but I get why it probably wont get increases.


----------



## Blonde

Punk as he ignores calls from Tony begging him to return.


----------



## DammitChrist

Rhhodes said:


> Punk as he ignores calls from Tony begging him to return.


Oh, CM Punk will come back.

That beloved PUNK will be back to AEW in 2023!


----------



## Irish Jet

Holy shit at main event number Kenny and the boys pulled in. Who could have seen this coming?

  

The company has committed an act of self harm they’ll never recover from. They’re sunk.


----------



## Blonde

3venflow said:


> Meltzer's critique on AEW (for the 'Meltzer says nothing bad about AEW' sect who would be surprised if they listened to/read his stuff more) in relation to the ratings:
> 
> View attachment 140671
> 
> 
> One thing I really agree on is less turns. AEW rarely did heel/face turns in its first couple of years, so that when they did one it felt like an event. Now it's happening all the time. I liked that stability/consistency in alignments.


See how this old wretched cunt still tries to blame Punk? Anything to dance around the fact that the Elite are non-draws. This isn't the first wrestler whose reputation he's hurt by spewing his tabloid gossip just to push his agenda.


----------



## Irish Jet

Rhhodes said:


> See how this old wretched cunt still tries to blame Punk? Anything to dance around the fact that the Elite are non-draws. This isn't the first wrestler whose reputation he's hurt by spewing his tabloid gossip just to push his agenda.


And how even was the “rug pulled” from them exactly? They’re doing the exact same match they were doing when they were last seen. Literally. And over and over again at that.

He talks about people getting them balls cut off but fails to mention FTR who were as over as anyone in the business. A shameless propaganda spewing cunt.

It’s also hilarious to see him saying that about Wardlow when it was a lot of the Meltzer apologists who ridiculed me for saying Wardlow should have been fast tracked to the world title the second Punk went down. Even defended him saying that he wasn’t interested in the interim belt lol.


----------



## DammitChrist

Irish Jet said:


> Holy shit at main event number Kenny and the boys pulled in. Who could have seen this coming?
> 
> 
> 
> The company has committed an act of self harm they’ll never recover from. They’re sunk.


Except for the fact that the company isn't 'sunk' at all since they've rebounded with way lower numbers than this week's ratings a while ago.

By the way, are you seriously ignoring the fact that the Elite's awesome trios contest against Death Triangle literally kept the viewership steady just *LAST WEEK* before the ratings immediately took a significant dip once their segment/match concluded??? 😂 😂 😂

Sure, it's not like the Elite aren't the group that lured wrestling fans of NJPW + ROH into committing with AEW in the first place, and that have a big fanbase too that's completely worth catering to each week or anything like that here 

Plus, it's cute how an insignificantly small ratings dip is somehow the focus here instead of the big difference between Q1 vs Q2, which would inevitably lead to the Elite being crucified more on here (somehow worse than they unnecessarily are atm) if they were in the 2nd quarter instead because God forbid that wrestling fans get what they want by seeing that trio getting rightfully showcased on TV often 

Edit:

It's really sad how the small Q7-Q8 dip is being completely overblown by those who were already going to give the Elite grief no matter what numbers Dynamite drew anyway.


----------



## VamosRamos

I'm leaving for the Evil Fed and Evil Big Nose, boo me please


----------



## DammitChrist

Rhhodes said:


> See how this old wretched cunt still tries to blame Punk? Anything to dance around the fact that the Elite are non-draws. This isn't the first wrestler whose reputation he's hurt by spewing his tabloid gossip just to push his agenda.





Irish Jet said:


> And how even was the “rug pulled” from them exactly? They’re doing the exact same match they were doing when they were last seen. Literally. And over and over again at that.
> 
> He talks about people getting them balls cut off but fails to mention FTR who were as over as anyone in the business. A shameless propaganda spewing cunt.
> 
> It’s also hilarious to see him saying that about Wardlow when it was a lot of the Meltzer apologists who ridiculed me for saying Wardlow should have been fast tracked to the world title the second Punk went down. Even defended him saying that he wasn’t interested in the interim belt lol.


Nah, the Elite are obvious draws that helped *build* this company, and Dave Meltzer is still a reliable source on here 



Irish Jet said:


> It’s also hilarious to see him saying that about Wardlow when it was a lot of the Meltzer apologists who ridiculed me for saying Wardlow should have been fast tracked to the world title the second Punk went down. Even defended him saying that he wasn’t interested in the interim belt lol.


MJF and the Elite are more over than Wardlow atm, so they deserve to get more TV time now. You're just misinformed about Dave Meltzer.


----------



## Tokinorthstar

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, the Elite are obvious draws that helped *build* this company, and Dave Meltzer is still a reliable source on here
> 
> 
> 
> MJF and the Elite are more over than Wardlow atm, so they deserve to get more TV time now. You're just misinformed about Dave Meltzer.


Dude, shut up, nobody cares. You’re the worst poster on this site.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

I’m happy the women match/segment wasn’t the least in viewership and demo. That must be embarrassing for the Elite vs Triangle match to have the women match/segment beat you in viewership and demo 😂


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> This would be a great point if Punk had them consistently doing over a million. Even with Punk them doing over a million was few and far between. So yeah no he's not the big massive difference you want him to seem like. They've been a distant 3rd with and with Punk.


*It's not just about the million though. Punk GUARANTEED +100,000 viewers, whereas The Elite are guaranteed to run 100,000 people off with their fucking redundant goofy ass tag team matches. The DEMO was also at an all time low, so you know those folks who hold it above everything got their feelings hurt.








*


----------



## theshape31

Tokinorthstar said:


> Dude, shut up, nobody cares. You’re the worst poster on this site.


Just joined. First post. Gee, I wonder whose alt account this is.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Tokinorthstar said:


> Dude, shut up, nobody cares. You’re the worst poster on this site.


Log in with your real account.


----------



## DammitChrist

Tokinorthstar said:


> Dude, shut up, nobody cares. You’re the worst poster on this site.


In other words, that doesn't really much since it means that I'm bringing valid and strong reasonable points to this discussion; so I won't take your unwanted advice


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Hi guys, how did the trios match end up doing in the ratin….







OH LAWD


----------



## VamosRamos




----------



## RapShepard

5 Star Giulia [emoji294][emoji294][emoji294][emoji294][emoji294] said:


> *It's not just about the million though. Punk GUARANTEED +100,000 viewers, whereas The Elite are guaranteed to run 100,000 people off with their fucking redundant goofy ass tag team matches. The DEMO was also at an all time low, so you know those folks who hold it above everything got their feelings hurt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


But they didn't run off 100k and their segment held pretty fine so idk this just seems like a bad way to show Punk is some big star. There's not enough gap to brag about. With or without Punk they're the 2nd company by a distance and Dynamite is 3rd by a distance.


----------



## CM Buck

Why is it shows I actually enjoyed do so shit but shows that piss me off do better?


----------



## Chan Hung

Edit


----------



## IronMan8

CM Buck said:


> Why is it shows I actually enjoyed do so shit but shows that piss me off do better?


Haha same for me

I enjoyed Dynamite and can't wait for next week

When it comes to ratings, I'd guess it's what they're not doing from the top down. E.g the formatting and lack of attention put into the show's overarching selling tactics


----------



## The XL 2

Can we finally stop pretending that anyone honestly gives a fuck about the Elite now?


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> Last year's equivalent show (12/1/21) was headlined by Cody vs. Andrade with the (in)famous flaming table spot and did 861,000 and 0.31. Punk and Danielson also wrestled on the show. So fewer viewers but much better in the key demo, which is the most important metric. Last year, AEW's ratings popped back up towards Christmas time after quite a lull, be interesting if the same happens in 2022.
> 
> View attachment 140667


Punk dropped the ball that Omega handed him last year. Confirmed.

WF is full of idiots.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> The "Elite" and their trios crap chasing off viewers yet again.


You really are ignorant, aren’t you? You look at those numbers and blame the Elite. Jesus fucking Christ…


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> You really are ignorant, aren’t you? You look at those numbers and blame the Elite. Jesus fucking Christ…


Are you claiming Tony is forcing them to do a bunch of Trios stuff when we all know it was their idea?


----------



## VamosRamos

The XL 2 said:


> Can we finally stop pretending that anyone honestly gives a fuck about the Elite now?


Eveybody cares about the biggest draws of this generation, bad faith troll


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> But they didn't run off 100k and their segment held pretty fine so idk this just seems like a bad way to show Punk is some big star. There's not enough gap to brag about. With or without Punk they're the 2nd company by a distance and Dynamite is 3rd by a distance.


Thank you for actually being logical. I’m so tired of these fucking morons that literally keep screaming how the Elite run off hundreds of thousands of viewers without a single fucking piece of evidence to back that claim.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> Are you claiming Tony is forcing them to do a bunch of Trios stuff when we all know it was their idea?


No dipshit. The loss in viewers came in the 2nd quarter. There was no fucking hundred thousand viewers tuning out. Just like there was no 200k viewers tuning out the night of Omega’s return, yet you gotta parrot Ol’ Jimmy Boy and keep repeating fucking lies.


----------



## bdon

Maybe if Bryan Danielson could hold his goddamn segments’ viewership numbers for a change, the shows wouldn’t lose so many fucking viewers.


----------



## Saintpat

bdon said:


> Thank you for actually being logical. I’m so tired of these fucking morons that literally keep screaming how the Elite run off hundreds of thousands of viewers without a single fucking piece of evidence to back that claim.


I am not in the camp that say the Elite run off viewers by the drove but it’s hard to make a case that they are draws. Coming back after being away for months and the show is dropping in the ratings — if they were draws, viewership should have held or gone up.


----------



## bdon

This marks the 3rd or 4th time Bryan has lost 200k viewers that refuse to return. There comes a point you have to begin questioning if he wasn’t sent by Vince to kill things much like Russo 20 years ago.


----------



## bdon

Saintpat said:


> I am not in the camp that say the Elite run off viewers by the drove but it’s hard to make a case that they are draws. Coming back after being away for months and the show is dropping in the ratings — if they were draws, viewership should have held or gone up.


They held just fine last week. And generally see a raise or hold the viewership of the previous segment. One week drop over 20+ minutes of television is not some kind of proof that they are not draws.

Also hard to claim Punk is a draw when his Dynamite averaged so few more weekly viewers than The Cucamonga Kids and Twinkle Toes. Yet…everyone pretends the guy is Hulk fucking Hogan and saving AEW.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> Are you claiming Tony is forcing them to do a bunch of Trios stuff when we all know it was their idea?


I guess Dax getting his dream match is just the Bucks’ fault for being jealous of him too, eh?

When you want to have a discussion based on logic, you can talk to me…


----------



## Serpico Jones

Kabraxal said:


> Can we now all agree Tony has a few problems and that one is clearly trying to appease the Elite and that niche fandom? Not only does the show tank after Q1, showing he can’t book that time to retain viewers, but he only has one soft rebound the entire show?
> 
> And gotta love the continued proof that the Elite do NOT draw. And Tony chose them over Punk. Great choice...


It’s their biggest problem but Tony isn’t going to do anything about it. It’s frustrating as hell.


----------



## bdon

It’s the same ignorant “gotcha” dumb shit argument that was made (and parroted by these same fucks) on the night of Omega’s return: “The Elite ran off 200k viewers for Omega’s ‘big’ return!!”

The issue is Bryan being incapable of not only holding viewership but running off 200k people who refuse to give it a second chance, because they assume everything is full of cold, meaningless matches.

But not a word is said. Bryan losing 200k viewers falls at the feet of the Elite.

“Must. Blame. The Elite. _beep boop beep_ Can’t think for self. _beep boop beep_”


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Last year's equivalent show (12/1/21) was headlined by Cody vs. Andrade with the (in)famous flaming table spot and did 861,000 and 0.31. Punk and Danielson also wrestled on the show. So fewer viewers but much better in the key demo, which is the most important metric. Last year, AEW's ratings popped back up towards Christmas time after quite a lull, be interesting if the same happens in 2022.
> 
> View attachment 140667


last year it was also ‘dying’ and ‘lol, punk is not moving the needle’

i’ve grown tired of the discourse from ‘fans’ around ratings - its all hot takes and no substance

love posts like your that draw comparisons


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> last year it was also ‘dying’ and ‘lol, punk is not moving the needle’
> 
> i’ve grown tired of the discourse from ‘fans’ around ratings - its all hot takes and no substance
> 
> love posts like your that draw comparisons


Punk DID prove he doesn’t move the needle. 

He barely outdrew The Cucamonga Kids and TwinkleToes McFingerbang who WF has taught us “nO oNE gIvEs A sHiT aBoUt!!!1!!”


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Punk DID prove he doesn’t move the needle.
> 
> He barely outdrew The Cucamonga Kids and TwinkleToes McFingerbang who WF has taught us “nO oNE gIvEs A sHiT aBoUt!!!1!!”


meh, i am over the whole discussion

its clear there are seasonal movements, ad movements, news movements

in 2 months they do over a million again and then the other side ‘wins’ - but the fact is in today’s day and age, we are ‘arguing‘ with only 25% of the relevant data, and to me thats a muggs game


----------



## bdon

Omega and Hangman on the list. Where’s Punk’s name? Drawwwww


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> meh, i am over the whole discussion
> 
> its clear there are seasonal movements, ad movements, news movements
> 
> in 2 months they do over a million again and then the other side ‘wins’ - but the fact is in today’s day and age, we are ‘arguing‘ with only 25% of the relevant data, and to me thats a muggs game


I don’t give a flying fuck about the ratings. I don’t pop in here when the ratings are good. I don’t pretend everything is kosher. I don’t pretend Omega or the Bucks are massive draws. I keep everything in perspective.

I can’t stand that ignorant shit, though. Just like I got angry when motherfucking E Drones were in here last year arguing Punk wasn’t a draw. I fucking loathe disingenuous and/or ignorant bullshit.


----------



## bdon

“ThE eLiTe LoSt TwO-hUnDrEd ThOuSaNd ViEwErS AgAiN!!!”

Goddamn ignorant fucks.


----------



## DammitChrist

The XL 2 said:


> Can we finally stop pretending that anyone honestly gives a fuck about the Elite now?


Nah, we're not pretending at all due to the fact that a large portion of the AEW audience genuinely cares about the Elite, and that'll never be settled too because they'll always have their big following.

Again, you're wrong because the Elite is a BIG reason why AEW even exists in the first place. They lured a big number of wrestling fans into committing with AEW in 2019.

Their big following is a huge reason why CM Punk vs Kenny Omega and (revisiting) FTR vs Young Bucks are highly anticipated match-ups; so it's patently obvious that plenty of people care about the Elite.

Just listen to the big pop that Adam Page received last night. He's largely associated with the Elite too


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I don’t give a flying fuck about the ratings. I don’t pop in here when the ratings are good. I don’t pretend everything is kosher. I don’t pretend Omega or the Bucks are massive draws. I keep everything in perspective.
> 
> I can’t stand that ignorant shit, though. Just like I got angry when motherfucking E Drones were in here last year arguing Punk wasn’t a draw. I fucking loathe disingenuous and/or ignorant bullshit.


lol, well we can agree the hot takes are tiresome

anybody who thinks the elite isn’t a draw has to eat their food with spoons going forward.

its been proven there is a base 700k solid fans there *because* of the elite - the only time a lot of us were considering not watching or giving up on AEW was during their suspension (and that is 700k cable USA fans, many more online and worldwide)

who cares if some people don’t like them - the video promos showed it - without the Elite there is no AEW

its not even worth discussing further


----------



## DammitChrist

bdon said:


> You really are ignorant, aren’t you? You look at those numbers and blame the Elite. Jesus fucking Christ…


Hey, a valid explanation about the Elite's banger of a match last week against Death Triangle in which ratings held *STEADY* up until their whole segment concluded was conveniently ignored dozens of times.

Anyway, let's dogpile on them for an insignificantly small ratings dip instead, which wasn't even close to the huge dip from Q1 to Q2 (which I won't blame anyone on Q2 too because ratings fluctuations can be highly unpredictable).

I *refuse *to concede that the Elite are draws that is a BIG reason why we even have a wrestling alternative on Wednesday nights in the first place. Without their existence, you can reasonably argue that CM Punk would STILL be in retirement (instead of making his glorious return last year).


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, well we can agree the hot takes are tiresome
> 
> anybody who thinks the elite isn’t a draw has to eat their food with spoons going forward.
> 
> its been proven there is a base 700k solid fans there *because* of the elite - the only time a lot of us were considering not watching or giving up on AEW was during their suspension (and that is 700k cable USA fans, many more online and worldwide)
> 
> who cares if some people don’t like them - the video promos showed it - without the Elite there is no AEW
> 
> its not even worth discussing further


I don’t even give a shit that someone like @One Shed doesn’t like them. I don’t like lots of guys, but I’m not ignorant enough to look at something like this:









And blame someone that lost a few thousand votes at 10pm ET.

Bitch about the stupid shit they might do. Bitch about the way they wear their hair. Bitch about their matches looking fake as fuck, and their selling being shit. You can’t logically look at those numbers, and the first thing that jumps out at you being a fucking reason to cry about the Elite.


----------



## DammitChrist

Saintpat said:


> I am not in the camp that say the Elite run off viewers by the drove but it’s hard to make a case that they are draws. Coming back after being away for months and the show is dropping in the ratings — if they were draws, viewership should have held or gone up.


On the opposite side of the coin, the Elite's return in August just so happened to begin the 5-6 week streak of Dynamite maintaining 1+ million viewers up until mid September; so they're definitely not ratings killers at all.


----------



## DammitChrist

bdon said:


> It’s the same ignorant “gotcha” dumb shit argument that was made (and parroted by these same fucks) on the night of Omega’s return: “The Elite ran off 200k viewers for Omega’s ‘big’ return!!”
> 
> The issue is Bryan being incapable of not only holding viewership but running off 200k people who refuse to give it a second chance, because they assume everything is full of cold, meaningless matches.
> 
> But not a word is said. Bryan losing 200k viewers falls at the feet of the Elite.
> 
> “Must. Blame. The Elite. _beep boop beep_ Can’t think for self. _beep boop beep_”


Heck, the highest rated quarterly segment for Dynamite this week had Adam Page in it (who's a former member of the Elite); so blaming the Elite for 'killing' the viewership this week isn't a strong flex at all.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I don’t even give a shit that someone like @One Shed doesn’t like them. I don’t like lots of guys, but I’m not ignorant enough to look at something like this:
> 
> View attachment 140703
> 
> And blame someone that lost a few thousand votes at 10pm ET.


well, you’d have to have the min by min breakdown for a full picture

but logically it seems like from the prior quarter on average 8k people tuned out

do i think there is 1 household with a Nielson box that was just like ‘fuuck this bro, imma start tweeting rather than watching’

sure, i can buy that - so you can attribute the ‘loss’ of the 8k to the Elite in theory

but its ignoring that a large part of the 790k left over are only there because the Elite is - so really, whats the argument about

conversely, now i have to make the argument ‘Hangman Page is over AF according to the ratings, give him the belt‘


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> I guess Dax getting his dream match is just the Bucks’ fault for being jealous of him too, eh?
> 
> When you want to have a discussion based on logic, you can talk to me…


You keep going back to this really weird black and white argument. Because the Hardlys are awful and to blame for SOME things, you translate that to mean they must be blamed for everything, ever. Drop the strawman, no one has ever said they are to blame for everything. But they ARE a huge influence in the company and to blame for many things. They WANT to be doing this trios garbage. And if you like their circus routine, that is fine. But stop pretending anything they are doing is helping grow the company.

Like Vince, Tony is booking for an audience of one. He has many bad influences in his ear right now. Jericho is #1, but the Hardlys and their gymnastics crap is high up on that list.

Lowest rated segment on the show. And no, they did not lose 200,000 viewers EVERY time, but they did lose viewers almost every time they had a trios match.

Stop defending these immature, bottom level unfunny comedy goofs.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, you’d have to have the min by min breakdown for a full picture
> 
> but logically it seems like from the prior quarter on average 8k people tuned out
> 
> do i think there is 1 household with a Nielson box that was just like ‘fuuck this bro, imma start tweeting rather than watching’
> 
> sure, i can buy that - so you can attribute the ‘loss’ of the 8k to the Elite in theory
> 
> but its ignoring that a large part of the 790k left over are only there because the Elite is - so really, whats the argument about
> 
> conversely, now i have to make the argument ‘Hangman Page is over AF according to the ratings, give him the belt‘


For at least a 3rd or 4th time in as many months, the crowd saw Bryan come on tv and said, “Yep. Fuck this”, changed the channel, and never even tried to return. Perhaps if he could hold his fucking weight with all of that masterclass in psychology and realism, UNLIKE THOSE FAKE BUCKS AND OMEGA, the viewership would have been much higher.

But nah. Can’t blame Mr Psychology. “That goes against my point!!”, so these fucks conveniently ignore it.

Fucking disingenuous, ignorant bullshit.


----------



## Serpico Jones

AEW needs someone like the cowboy Bill Watts to whip that locker room into shape.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> You keep going back to this really weird black and white argument. Because the Hardlys are awful and to blame for SOME things, you translate that to mean they must be blamed for everything, ever. Drop the strawman, no one has ever said they are to blame for everything. But they ARE a huge influence in the company and to blame for many things. They WANT to be doing this trios garbage. And if you like their circus routine, that is fine. But stop pretending anything they are doing is helping grow the company.
> 
> Like Vince, Tony is booking for an audience of one. He has many bad influences in his ear right now. Jericho is #1, but the Hardlys and their gymnastics crap is high up on that list.
> 
> Lowest rated segment on the show. And no, they did not lose 200,000 viewers EVERY time, but they did lose viewers almost every time they had a trios match.
> 
> Stop defending these immature, bottom level unfunny comedy goofs.


Stop claiming they lost 200k viewers…

You literally argued they lost 200k viewers the night of Omega’s return, despite the quarterly hours being right there in front of you showing that Bryan lost 200k and Omega gained 100k only to see it drop 90k (for a total 10k net GAIN) after two quarter hours of the dumb trios shit.

Trios fucking suck. Trios aren’t the reason for shit ratings. Your almighty Psychology master and technician being incapable of only losing a few ten thousand vs the 200k he has lost multiple times is the real issue, but you just want to cry about booking on that one.

Disingenuous as fuck.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> You keep going back to this really weird black and white argument. Because the *Hardlys* are awful and to blame for SOME things, you translate that to mean they must be blamed for everything, ever. Drop the strawman, no one has ever said they are to blame for everything. But they ARE a huge influence in the company and to blame for many things. They WANT to be doing this trios garbage. And if you like their circus routine, that is fine. But stop pretending anything they are doing is helping grow the company.
> 
> Like Vince, Tony is booking for an audience of one. He has many bad influences in his ear right now. Jericho is #1, but the *Hardlys* and their gymnastics crap is high up on that list.
> 
> Lowest rated segment on the show. And no, they did not lose 200,000 viewers EVERY time, but they did lose viewers almost every time they had a trios match.
> 
> Stop defending these immature, bottom level unfunny comedy goofs.


Again, that's *NOT* an actual tag team in the division.

If you're going to (inaccurately) blame a wrestler or a tag team in a serious argument about ratings, then you've got to use proper names.

For the record, no, Tony Khan (along with Chris Jericho AND the Elite) is definitely helping this company grow.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Stop claiming they lost 200k viewers…


Did you...read my post at all?


----------



## Missionary Chief

How many viewers do you figure a cat juggling Teddy Hart could draw to the show?


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Again, that's *NOT* an actual tag team in the division.
> 
> If you're going to (inaccurately) blame a wrestler or a tag team in a serious argument about ratings, then you've got to use proper names.
> 
> For the record, no, Tony Khan (along with Chris Jericho AND the Elite) is definitely helping this company grow.


Oh, I MUST use proper names? You do realize the names you call them are also not their actual names right?

Grow up and understand how nicknames work. Nicknames are one of the biggest parts of wrestling. Holy shit.


----------



## CM Buck

bdon said:


> No dipshit. The loss in viewers came in the 2nd quarter. There was no fucking hundred thousand viewers tuning out. Just like there was no 200k viewers tuning out the night of Omega’s return, yet you gotta parrot Ol’ Jimmy Boy and keep repeating fucking lies.


You want to join 316 ? Knock off the childish insults


----------



## Rankles75

Missionary Chief said:


> How many viewers do you figure a cat juggling Teddy Hart could draw to the show?


Would Teddy be juggling the cat, or would the cat be juggling him?


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> Did you...read my post at all?


I will read it when you can look at the rest of the show and admit who is losing viewers. The trios match lost 9k viewers. They entered the screen with “21 minutes for people to turn off the show” as you put it.

You don’t like the trios shit. I don’t like the trios shit usually (they’ve been good on this best of 7), but trying to equate the factually shitty ratings with your opinion of the shitty Elite simply is not true. What fans apprently REALLY dislike is Mr Paychology and “it looks like a real fight” Bryan Danielson, yet you can only run down the Elite, who typically hold their rating despite being in a shitry fucking trios storyline.


----------



## Missionary Chief

Rankles75 said:


> Would Teddy be juggling the cat, or would the cat be juggling him?


Why not both?


----------



## Serpico Jones

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, Tomohiro Ishii is in his mid 40s who's still able to outwork at least 90% of the current roster, and I bet that he's in better physical shape than 99% of us here.
> 
> He's an excellent wrestler who happens to be really tough too.
> 
> Anyway, the Best of 7 Series is far from a failure. In fact, it's truly a success because they're 3 for 3 in terms of sending the wrestling crowds home happy with 3 MOTYC-level bangers


Nobody cares about that fat jabroni Ishii.


----------



## bdon

CM Buck said:


> You want to join 316 ? Knock off the childish insults


I blame the Bucks. They’re scared of me and changed my postings.


----------



## DammitChrist

Serpico Jones said:


> Nobody cares about that fat jabroni Ishii.


Last week's Dynamite crowd where his incredible match against Chris Jericho that woke up them up (after being fatigued beforehand) says otherwise


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> I will read it when you can look at the rest of the show and admit who is losing viewers. The trios match lost 9k viewers. They entered the screen with “21 minutes for people to turn off the show” as you put it.
> 
> You don’t like the trios shit. I don’t like the trios shit usually (they’ve been good on this best of 7), but trying to equate the factually shitty ratings with your opinion of the shitty Elite simply is not true. What fans apprently REALLY dislike is Mr Paychology and “it looks like a real fight” Bryan Danielson, yet you can only run down the Elite, who typically hold their rating despite being in a shitry fucking trios storyline.


How many times have I posted that BD's booking sucks? Many. He is another person who should not be influencing his own creative. When he came in, he was a big deal and now thanks to his piss poor booking he is just another guy and everybody knows it. "Oh great I guess BD is losing to Midcard X and has no actual story or desire to go after any kind of title of anything. Time to change the channel." So yes, I certainly also run down BD's ideas of how he should be booked, but not his actual matches. The "Elite" suck at all of the above though. Is there anything one of the Hardlys is actually elite at besides performing choreographed moves?


----------



## CM Buck

bdon said:


> I blame the Bucks. They’re scared of me and changed my postings.


I get your shtick is the angry elite fan who wants to protect them from negative comments but watch the insults or you get bounced. This isn't a Cult vs you situation where I gave you leeway cause cult was also being an ass situation


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> How many times have I posted that BD's booking sucks? Many. He is another person who should not be influencing his own creative. When he came in, he was a big deal and now thanks to his piss poor booking he is just another guy and everybody knows it. "Oh great I guess BD is losing to Midcard X and has no actual story or desire to go after any kind of title of anything. Time to change the channel." So yes, I certainly also run down BD's ideas of how he should be booked, but not his actual matches. The "Elite" suck at all of the above though. Is there anything one of the Hardlys is actually elite at besides performing choreographed moves?


At not losing 200k viewers, which you conveniently fail to ignore.

You want to say they suck? Fair enough. Want to bitch about ratings? Complain about someone else, starting with Mr Psychology.


----------



## bdon

CM Buck said:


> I get your shtick is the angry elite fan who wants to protect them from negative comments but watch the insults or you get bounced. This isn't a Cult vs you situation where I gave you leeway cause cult was also being an ass situation


I’m just repeating everyone else. If you feel attacked, that’s on you…


----------



## Serpico Jones

DammitChrist said:


> Last week's Dynamite crowd where his incredible match against Chris Jericho that woke up them up (after being fatigued beforehand) says otherwise


Yeah keep putting him on and watch what happens. They’ll turn into Impact overnight.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> How many times have I posted that BD's booking sucks? Many. He is another person who should not be influencing his own creative. When he came in, he was a big deal and now thanks to his piss poor booking he is just another guy and everybody knows it. "Oh great I guess BD is losing to Midcard X and has no actual story or desire to go after any kind of title of anything. Time to change the channel." So yes, I certainly also run down BD's ideas of how he should be booked, but not his actual matches. The "Elite" suck at all of the above though. Is there anything one of the *Hardlys* is actually elite at besides performing choreographed moves?


That bolded term has nothing to do with that real-life group, and the members of the Elite are truly outstanding wrestlers in the ring. 

Kenny Omega is rightfully regarded as one of the best wrestlers in the industry, and the Young Bucks earned their right in being regarded as one of the best tag teams in the business.

Bryan Danielson is booked very well btw. He honestly still feels like a really big deal.


----------



## CM Buck

bdon said:


> I’m just repeating everyone else. If you feel attacked, that’s on you…


I'm talking about you calling Shed a dipshit


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> At not losing 200k viewers, which you conveniently fail to ignore.
> 
> You want to say they suck? Fair enough. Want to bitch about ratings? Complain about someone else, starting with Mr Psychology.


The difference is at least when the bell rings, BD delivers even if he is in the ring with a broom like Yuta.

I am not ignoring anything. BD's booking has been incredibly butchered that everyone knows that nothing he does matters right now. So of course they tune out.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> That bolded term has nothing to do with that real-life group, and the members of the Elite are truly outstanding wrestlers in the ring.
> 
> Kenny Omega is rightfully regarded as one of the best wrestlers in the industry, and the Young Bucks earned their right in being regarded as one of the best tag teams in the business.
> 
> Bryan Danielson is booked very well btw. He honestly still feels like a really big deal.


You and maybe four other people might believe all that nonsense.

Honestly I want to see the results in a poll for BD.


----------



## DammitChrist

Edit:

Wait, never mind.

I thought you quoted me there.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Loved the show, but that rating is a disappointment especially in the demo. Hope the quality of the show leads to a better rating next week.


----------



## CM Buck

One Shed said:


> You and maybe four other people might believe all that nonsense.
> 
> Honestly I want to see the results in a poll for BD.


He has been booked like shit. I think what @DammitChrist is trying to say is with a genuine star like Bryan it doesn't take much to build up his credibility.

Am I correct DC or have I mistranslated?


----------



## DammitChrist

CM Buck said:


> He has been booked like shit. I think what @DammitChrist is trying to say is with a genuine star like Bryan it doesn't take much to build up his credibility.
> 
> Am I correct DC or have I mistranslated?


Yea, you're correct about what I said.



RainmakerV2 said:


> I had to ignore him. I've always given him the benefit of the doubt but it's just unbearable now. First poster I've ever had to do that too.


Way to be intolerant of valid opinions 😂


----------



## RainmakerV2

One Shed said:


> Oh, I MUST use proper names? You do realize the names you call them are also not their actual names right?
> 
> Grow up and understand how nicknames work. Nicknames are one of the biggest parts of wrestling. Holy shit.



I had to ignore him. I've always given him the benefit of the doubt but it's just unbearable now. First poster I've ever had to do that too.


----------



## One Shed

CM Buck said:


> He has been booked like shit. I think what @DammitChrist is trying to say is with a genuine star like Bryan it doesn't take much to build up his credibility.
> 
> Am I correct DC or have I mistranslated?


No, he clearly said "Bryan Danielson is booked very well btw. He honestly still feels like a really big deal."

He has to be about the only human alive who thinks he has been booked very well.


----------



## One Shed

RainmakerV2 said:


> I had to ignore him. I've always given him the benefit of the doubt but it's just unbearable now. First poster I've ever had to do that too.


He at least makes me laugh unlike @Pippen94 who was just dumb. At this point I want to find a way to prove he managed to get here from an alternate reality where words like "workrate," "psychology," and "good" mean different things than they do here. That is the only explanation I can come up with.


----------



## VamosRamos

No 900K ?


----------



## CM Buck

One Shed said:


> No, he clearly said "Bryan Danielson is booked very well btw. He honestly still feels like a really big deal."
> 
> He has to be about the only human alive who thinks he has been booked very well.


DC doesn't much care for booking. Unless it's Roman reigns. 

So when DC says someone is booked well it means they wrestle an entertaining match. DC only cares about deciphering which matches make his end of year lists.

He is like the casual music fan. Just cares if tracks are bops and doesn't care about composition or lyrical content or if the album makes sense.

He is 24 he is all about the vibe......unless it's Roman reigns. When he hits 30 he is likely to care more about logical booking


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> The difference is at least when the bell rings, BD delivers even if he is in the ring with a broom like Yuta.
> 
> I am not ignoring anything. BD's booking has been incredibly butchered that everyone knows that nothing he does matters right now. So of course they tune out.


This is an opinion. The FACTS say that your OPINION of Bryan delivering is not enough for people to stay and watch his segments, which for the lost part…The Buckaroos do, despite being boring and dumb trios shits. Sorry these facts are hard for you to accept.


----------



## Kishido

What is the excuse this time?


----------



## bdon

Kishido said:


> What is the excuse this time?


It’s the Bucks’ fault Bryan lost 200k viewers again.


----------



## One Shed

CM Buck said:


> DC doesn't much care for booking. Unless it's Roman reigns.
> 
> So when DC says someone is booked well it means they wrestle an entertaining match. DC only cares about deciphering which matches make his end of year lists.
> 
> He is like the casual music fan. Just cares if tracks are bops and doesn't care about composition or lyrical content or if the album makes sense.
> 
> He is 24 he is all about the vibe......unless it's Roman reigns. When he hits 30 he is likely to care more about logical booking


OK, so he only cares about matches. And within matches, he only cares about moves but not selling or psychology. So he cares about 1/3 of what makes a good match.

If Reigns had matches with 24 nearfalls and flipped more do you think he would be a fan?


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> This is an opinion. The FACTS say that your OPINION of Bryan delivering is not enough for people to stay and watch his segments, which for the lost part…The Buckaroos do, despite being boring and dumb trios shits. Sorry these facts are hard for you to accept.


I agree 100% with that though. A good match is NOT enough to keep fans tuning in. Do you really not know that has been my overall position for my entire time here? Characters and stories are what draw people in.

The Hardlys definitely do not keep the fans tuning in though. Who had the lowest rated segment this week?


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> OK, so he only cares about matches. And within matches, he only cares about moves but not selling or psychology. So he cares about 1/3 of what makes a good match.
> 
> If Reigns had matches with 24 nearfalls and flipped more do you think he would be a fan?


I don’t know, but if he used more psychology and made it look like a fight, he’d instantly lose 200k viewers once a month on end.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> I agree 100% with that though. A good match is NOT enough to keep fans tuning in. Do you really not know that has been my overall position for my entire time here? Characters and stories are what draw people in.
> 
> The Hardlys definitely do not keep the fans tuning in though. Who had the lowest rated segment this week?


They only lost 9k viewers. So, apparently their characters and story sucks far less than Mr Psychology. Yet you still instantly cried and found a way to blame them when you saw the ratings.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> OK, so he only cares about matches. And within matches, he only cares about moves but not selling or psychology. So he cares about 1/3 of what makes a good match.
> 
> *If Reigns had matches with 24 nearfalls and flipped more do you think he would be a fan?*


He already kicks out of numerous near-falls from moves done by superior workers, and he flips his hair often enough (especially when he goes for his lame Spear); so no, I wouldn't be a fan regardless.

Plus, no, I care about 100% of what makes a good match. Anything else is just an added bonus.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> They only lost 9k viewers. So, apparently their characters and story sucks far less than Mr Psychology. Yet you still instantly cried and found a way to blame them when you saw the ratings.


They had the lowest rated segment on the show. Again. I did not find a way to blame them. The answer was right there.

Yes, BD's booking is also driving people away as are many other things. One of the consistent things that has driven people away almost every single time is the trios circus act as has BD's segments ever since he stopped kicking people's heads in and formed the BCC. Thankfully, that group seems to finally be done.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> He already kicks out of numerous near-falls from moves done by superior workers, and he flips his hair often enough (especially when he goes for his lame Spear); so no, I wouldn't be a fan regardless.
> 
> Plus, no, I care about 100% of what makes a good match. Anything else is just an added bonus.


Oh, you obviously watch a lot more Roman Reigns matches than I do.

You do realize that the stronger person is supposed to win the match right? Not the better move performer?


----------



## Saintpat

bdon said:


> They held just fine last week. And generally see a raise or hold the viewership of the previous segment. One week drop over 20+ minutes of television is not some kind of proof that they are not draws.
> 
> Also hard to claim Punk is a draw when his Dynamite averaged so few more weekly viewers than The Cucamonga Kids and Twinkle Toes. Yet…everyone pretends the guy is Hulk fucking Hogan and saving AEW.


I didn’t claim anything about Punk. I was talking strictly about the Elite.

Dynamite’s numbers the last few weeks, coinciding with their return, have been below what they were drawing even a month or two ago.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> Oh, you obviously watch a lot more Roman Reigns matches than I do.
> 
> You do realize that the stronger person is supposed to win the match right? Not the better move performer?


No wonder his matches in WWE are boring or underwhelming then if it's already telegraphed in advance that the more skilled/talented workers will just lose and get buried by him.

This is why the main event scene in AEW and NJPW consistently delivers better matches since nobody is unbeatable, and you can easily buy near-falls among several top guys.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> No wonder his matches in WWE are boring or underwhelming then if it's already telegraphed in advance that the more skilled/talented workers will just lose and get buried by him.
> 
> This is why the main event scene in AEW and NJPW consistently delivers better matches since nobody is unbeatable, and you can easily buy near-falls among several top guys.


I am not here to argue in favor of Reigns being unbeaten for two years or even in favor of him in general. I do not even watch WWE at all right now.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> They had the lowest rated segment on the show. Again. I did not find a way to blame them. The answer was right there.
> 
> Yes, BD's booking is also driving people away as are many other things. One of the consistent things that has driven people away almost every single time is the trios circus act as has BD's segments ever since he stopped kicking people's heads in and formed the BCC. Thankfully, that group seems to finally be done.


They ran off 9k viewers. Nine thousand viewers.

Imagine if Bryan had only lost 9k viewers, the show would have been well above 900k by 10pm with a 950k-ish average, despite shitty trios drawing the lowest.

Maybe Mr Psychology should try to do 24 false-finishes and some more flips to carry his weight.


----------



## bdon

Saintpat said:


> I didn’t claim anything about Punk. I was talking strictly about the Elite.
> 
> Dynamite’s numbers the last few weeks, coinciding with their return, have been below what they were drawing even a month or two ago.


Because the show has sucked with TK being heart-broken his lover left…?


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> They ran off 9k viewers. Nine thousand viewers.
> 
> Imagine if Bryan had only lost 9k viewers, the show would have been well above 900k by 10pm with a 950k-ish average, despite shitty trios drawing the lowest.
> 
> Maybe Mr Psychology should try to do 24 false-finishes and some more flips to carry his weight.


How many times have we seen viewers run off but yet come back when it was Mox, Punk, or MJF having a segment later? They saw Bryan and knew that what was coming later was just more trios and women's matches and did not come back. Then on top of all those fans leaving, even more left when the circus act started.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> How many times have we seen viewers run off but yet come back when it was Mox, Punk, or MJF having a segment later? They saw Bryan and knew that what was coming later was just more trios and women's matches and did not come back. Then on top of all those fans leaving, even more left when the circus act started.


And you saw the ratings and decided to cry about the Bucks. That makes lots of sense.


----------



## bdon

I know when I lose $20k it’s ok, but losing that $90 at the end of the night really hurts… 

Logical.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> And you saw the ratings and decided to cry about the Bucks. That makes lots of sense.


No one is crying, if anything just laughing. I saw what was the lowest segment of the night. Usually we see a dip during the 9:30 women's segment and then a gain for the main event. Nope, not for the Hardlys.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> No one is crying, if anything just laughing. I saw what was the lowest segment of the night. Usually we see a dip during the 9:30 women's segment and then a gain for the main event. Nope, not for the Hardlys.


You bitched and cried about them “losing hundreds of thousands of viewers” when their segment still added 10k in mid-August and were mum about Bryan losing 200k viewers for that show, too.

Kind of seeing a pattern.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> You bitched and cried about them “losing hundreds of thousands of viewers” when their segment still added 10k in mid-August and were mum about Bryan losing 200k viewers for that show, too.
> 
> Kind of seeing a pattern.


No, I laughed. And we discussed all of it months ago. You just want to keep harping on the 200K since Jim said it even though I already went through all of it months ago with you. Go look up those posts. I am not relitigating this.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> No, I laughed. And we discussed all of it months ago. You just want to keep harping on the 200K since Jim said it even though I already went through all of it months ago with you. Go look up those posts. I am not relitigating this.


And you parroted it.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> The "Elite" and their trios crap *chasing off viewers yet again.*


Then you doubled down on your stupid Jim Cornette bullshit.

Who really ran off viewers here? I’ll post this one more time, so you can’t pretend you didn’t fucking see it:


----------



## Saintpat

bdon said:


> Because the show has sucked with TK being heart-broken his lover left…?


There’s a lot of facets behind why the show’s audience and live event sales have dropped lately. 

It’s way more about Tony Khan’s booking and poor use of available talent, and also just general structure of the show, than it is about Punk OR the Elite. It doesn’t have to be an either/or thing.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> No one is crying, if anything just laughing. I saw what was the lowest segment of the night. Usually we see a dip during the 9:30 women's segment and then a gain for the main event. Nope, not for the Hardlys.





One Shed said:


> No, I laughed. And we discussed all of it months ago. You just want to keep harping on the 200K since Jim said it even though I already went through all of it months ago with you. Go look up those posts. I am not relitigating this.


There is nothing amusing about ratings fluctuating randomly, and about great talents being blamed unfairly in the proceed for something that they have no control over.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> There is nothing amusing about ratings fluctuating randomly, and about great talents being blamed unfairly in the proceed for something that they have no control over.


RANDOMLY!


Hahahahahahahaha.

Incredible.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Then you doubled down on your stupid Jim Cornette bullshit.
> 
> Who really ran off viewers here? I’ll post this one more time, so you can’t pretend you didn’t fucking see it:
> 
> View attachment 140718


But I have already agreed with you about 87 times now that BD's booking is abysmal.


----------



## theshape31




----------



## CM Buck

One Shed said:


> OK, so he only cares about matches. And within matches, he only cares about moves but not selling or psychology. So he cares about 1/3 of what makes a good match.
> 
> If Reigns had matches with 24 nearfalls and flipped more do you think he would be a fan?


The day DC becomes a fan of Roman is the day bdon sings kingdom at a karaoke bar and Kenny Omega appears on the Cornette experience. It will also be the day a comet hits the earth.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> But I have already agreed with you about 87 times now that BD's booking is abysmal.


Who chased away the viewers. Stop being disingenuous. 200k vs 9k.

You can do this math. I know you can.


----------



## VamosRamos

CM Buck said:


> The day DC becomes a fan of Roman is the day bdon sings kingdom at a karaoke bar and Kenny Omega appears on the Cornette experience. It will also be the day a comet hits the earth.


If Reigns dresses like this, he might appeal him 

1,200 × 628


----------



## Hotdiggity11

I thought people told me the BO7 matches were all going to be unique though? 😉




One Shed said:


> RANDOMLY!
> 
> 
> Hahahahahahahaha.
> 
> Incredible.



All random, bro. I did dun analytics, bro, and the numbas just constantly random, bro. Unless the numbas are high, then it was all me, bro.


----------



## CM Buck

VamosRamos said:


> If Reigns dresses like this, he might appeal him
> 
> 1,200 × 628


Look I know there's a lot of piss taking and smartass comments about DC cause he is making excuses but don't be mean spirited and try and make insinuations about his sexuality. Especially when I'm aware you got alt accounts. 

Speaking of do you want this one to be your primary and I ban that other one?


----------



## VamosRamos

CM Buck said:


> Look I know there's a lot of piss taking and smartass comments about DC cause he is making excuses but don't be mean spirited and try and make insinuations about his sexuality. Especially when I'm aware you got alt accounts.
> 
> Speaking of do you want this one to be your primary and I ban that other one?


Check the IP's and see who's who, I have no problem making fun of him or contradicting with him from this account, I have nothing to hide


----------



## Fearless Viper

AEW is dying...


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

Again, they dug their grave when they chose the replaceables over their by far the biggest star, and they will lay in it. History is history for a reason.


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> View attachment 140701
> 
> 
> Omega and Hangman on the list. Where’s Punk’s name? Drawwwww


1.34 on Rampage at 10pm outdrawing all these amateurs


----------



## Dizzie

The product is not a draw period and points squarely at one person tony khan


----------



## kingfunkel

This might get an eye roll reaction but the rating will slowly creep towards 700k unless they act soon. If you removed the AEW logo and replace it with a WWE logo... These aew fans would call it garbage.

If HHH and the network decided to put NXT up against Dynamite. NXT will overtake them very soon. 
The booking is trash, the continuity doesn't exsist, you keep wrestlers who are getting over massively off screen, replace them with random cold matches with comedy clowns we've seen for 3 years and aren't getting anymore over than they were 3 years ago.

Lets just call a spade, a spade. AEW has been poorly formated, written, booked for months now. The only saving grace was CM Punk, MJF, Wardlow and a few others. While 70% of the show was always remained skippable.


----------



## bdon

Not Lying said:


> 1.34 on Rampage at 10pm outdrawing all these amateurs


Good number for a guy who was returning after 7 years and had spent most of his wrestling days with The Machine behind him. Still couldn’t even bring every WWE fan (that remains) with him, why is that?

And with all that drawing power, why is he not on the above list? Hint: because he isn’t much more of a draw than The Cucamonga Kids and TwinkleToes.


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

Maybe more long, drawn out, predictable, rambling, boring MJF promos where he gushes about the rival company and spams his tired ass talking points ("LOL I'm rich you losers are poor!" "Bidding war of 2024" "my good friends Triple H and Jolly Saint Nick" "I have the mic so shut up" "you're all inbred white trash hicks" etc) will get ratings up?


----------



## Blonde

bdon said:


> Bitch about the stupid shit they might do. Bitch about the way they wear their hair. Bitch about their matches looking fake as fuck, and their selling being shit. You can’t logically look at those numbers, and the first thing that jumps out at you being a fucking reason to cry about the Elite.


What about their outfits?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

One Shed said:


> RANDOMLY!
> 
> 
> Hahahahahahahaha.
> 
> Incredible.


*It's the same guy who shits on Roman Reigns for bringing over 2.2 mil to SmackDown. No one takes him seriously at this point. *


----------



## Omos=Next Big Thing

To the defenders of The Elite. But you know that no viewers tuned in again to see The Elite in the Main Event. Usually Main Events gain viewers and not lose viewers.


----------



## Christopher Near

DammitChrist said:


> That bolded term has nothing to do with that real-life group, and the members of the Elite are truly outstanding wrestlers in the ring.
> 
> Kenny Omega is rightfully regarded as one of the best wrestlers in the industry, and the Young Bucks earned their right in being regarded as one of the best tag teams in the business.
> 
> Bryan Danielson is booked very well btw. He honestly still feels like a really big deal.



So losing a roh title match is bigger than main eventing wrestlemania??

If roh was so relevant why didn't no one watch when it was it's own thing


----------



## IronMan8

The XL 2 said:


> Can we finally stop pretending that anyone honestly gives a fuck about the Elite now?


Year on year it was actually up on last year's episode when CM punk was the centrepiece


----------



## DammitChrist

I don't even get why the nonexistent drawing power of the current Universal Champion was even brought up earlier on when his TV segments are rarely even the most watched on his own show.


----------



## VamosRamos




----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

kingfunkel said:


> This might get an eye roll reaction but the rating will slowly creep towards 700k unless they act soon. If you removed the AEW logo and replace it with a WWE logo... These aew fans would call it garbage.
> 
> If HHH and the network decided to put NXT up against Dynamite. NXT will overtake them very soon.
> The booking is trash, the continuity doesn't exsist, you keep wrestlers who are getting over massively off screen, replace them with random cold matches with comedy clowns we've seen for 3 years and aren't getting anymore over than they were 3 years ago.
> 
> Lets just call a spade, a spade. AEW has been poorly formated, written, booked for months now. The only saving grace was CM Punk, MJF, Wardlow and a few others. While 70% of the show was always remained skippable.


*And now they've killed Wardlow, run CM Punk out of the company, and already buried MJF's title reign before it even started. It's incredible how Tony Khan manages to make the worst possible decisions every single time.*


----------



## Geeee

CM Buck said:


> Why is it shows I actually enjoyed do so shit but shows that piss me off do better?


I think a lot of times a good show one week results in a bump the next week.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Elite aren’t draws. Roman’s not a draw. Mox isn’t a draw. MJF isn’t a draw.

You know who is a draw? Negative 1. He gets betrayed on Rampage and Q1 of Dynamite is over a million. Obviously fans wanting to tune in to see the follow up. When the kid is old enough to wrestle in 9 years and MJF has beaten Bruno’s reign, he should take the belt off MJF. For the ratings.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> The Elite aren’t draws. Roman’s not a draw. Mox isn’t a draw. MJF isn’t a draw.
> 
> You know who is a draw? Negative 1. He gets betrayed on Rampage and Q1 of Dynamite is over a million. Obviously fans wanting to tune in to see the follow up. When the kid is old enough to wrestle in 9 years and MJF has beaten Bruno’s reign, he should take the belt off MJF. For the ratings.


*At least you're consistent Santa 😂*


----------



## Omos=Next Big Thing

#BadNewsSanta said:


> The Elite aren’t draws. Roman’s not a draw. Mox isn’t a draw. MJF isn’t a draw.
> 
> You know who is a draw? Negative 1. He gets betrayed on Rampage and Q1 of Dynamite is over a million. Obviously fans wanting to tune in to see the follow up. When the kid is old enough to wrestle in 9 years and MJF has beaten Bruno’s reign, he should take the belt off MJF. For the ratings.


Not only should he take away the title from MJF, but also from Roman Reigns. Then he will unify the WWE Championship and AEW CHampionship.


----------



## Joe Gill

DammitChrist said:


> The highest rated Dynamite episodes (which drew 1.1+ million viewers) in their short history literally has The Elite appear frequently in their highest-rated quarterly segments.
> 
> Why do folks continue to ignore this undisputed fact?
> 
> Feel free to go in further detail, @bdon since you're far more experienced/familiar with this argument
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Again, the Elite is a BIG reason why many AEW/wrestling fans even tuned in to this company in the first place (especially in 2019). That prominent following doesn't just go away 3+ years later.


hey buddy... have you heard of something called the law of diminishing returns? when you hot shot everything and dont know how to tell believable stories people get sick of your act. The young bucks and clowns like OC are prime examples of this. Initially there is interest because its fresh and exciting.....but after the same old shit every week people get bored.
The MJF segment from Wednesday has nearly a million views... the young bucks omega clip only has 180k views. OC clips used to get massive 10 million+ views.... now they are lucky to break 200k. Bottom line is people are sick of the young bucks... only a few hundred thousand incel neckbeards think they are cool and entertaining


----------



## DammitChrist

Joe Gill said:


> hey buddy... have you heard of something called the law of diminishing returns? when you hot shot everything and dont know how to tell believable stories people get sick of your act. The young bucks and clowns like OC are prime examples of this. Initially there is interest because its fresh and exciting.....but after the same old shit every week people get bored.
> The MJF segment from Wednesday has nearly a million views... the young bucks omega clip only has 180k views. OC clips used to get massive 10 million+ views.... now they are lucky to break 200k. Bottom line is people are sick of the young bucks... only a few hundred thousand incel neckbeards think they are cool and entertaining


Nah, attacking fans unfairly for enjoying those great talents doesn't change the fact that the majority of the AEW audience enjoys watching the Elite and Orange Cassidy 

Various wrestling crowds have never rejected Cassidy (which just shows that the hatred for the guy doesn't even translate to the rest of the audience), and the Elite never gets go-away heat too.

The Elite were only booed last week because they were in CM Punk's home territory in Chicago. 

CM Punk/FTR vs The Elite is a money rivalry that's just waiting to happen within the next year.


----------



## 3venflow

Well, for some positive news - after next week's Dynamite (currently at ca. 2,800), every AEW Dynamite and Rampage show announced up to February 22nd has sold over 3,000 tickets. Going to new markets is already paying off.

The Seattle show in January recently passed 7,100 sold.

Many of the recent decreases have been return visits in the same year. Which, btw, is not exclusive to AEW.



> *WWE Friday Night SmackDown
> Fri • Dec 02 • 7:45 PM
> KeyBank Center, Buffalo, NY*
> 
> Available Tickets => 679
> Current Setup/Capacity => 6,495
> Tickets Distributed => 5,816
> 
> Last time here:
> 4/18/2022 => Raw => 7,380


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598797888636817408


----------



## 3venflow

I'm surprised 0.26 got them in the top five. Here's the full top 20.


----------



## The real Axel

bdon said:


> Who chased away the viewers. Stop being disingenuous. 200k vs 9k.
> 
> You can do this math. I know you can.


I laugh at DubbaloChrist. I just feel bad for you. You take this so seriously.


----------



## .christopher.

The real Axel said:


> I laugh at DubbaloChrist. I just feel bad for you. You take this so seriously.


Pretty much.

CM Punk legitimately broke @bdon .

I do feel bad for @One Shed , too. Tries time and time again to have a decent discussion but bdon is too broke to converse properly now.


----------



## bdon

Rhhodes said:


> What about their outfits?


Absolutely lol


----------



## bdon

.christopher. said:


> Pretty much.
> 
> CM Punk legitimately broke @bdon .
> 
> I do feel bad for @One Shed , too. Tries time and time again to have a decent discussion but bdon is too broke to converse properly now.


200k vs 9k

Stop fucking lying and saying one party is chasing away viewers. Simple as that. Claim they suck, cool. Claim they can’t average a million viewers as the top story, cool.

Bold face lies parroting Jim Cornette about the Elite chasing away viewers when they aren’t is fucking bullshit. Just like the night of Omega’s return, Cornette and those who follow his every word legitimately argued that the Elite chased away 200k viewers, despite their 2 quarter hours having a 10k GAIN on a night that Bryan lost 194k.

Disingenuous bullshit to try and win an argument. There are PLENTY of reasons to justify hating the Elite, claiming THEY are the ones tanking the ratings when Bryan is pretty routinely losing 200k viewers is ignornant and diminishes the arguments for why the Bucks DO suck.

It’s the Cornette bullshit. I like and agree with so much of Cornette’s points, but when he starts the bullshit lies and exaggerrations to try and “prove” his point, it kills anything else he has said previously.


----------



## bdon

The Bucks aren’t holding FTR back. The Bucks aren’t chasing away viewers when they basically hold the rating vs literally watching 200k viewers leave when Bryan comes on television. Punk is a fucking prick. Punk is a draw, but proven to be just slightly more than Mox and the Elite. The Bucks fucking suck and are cringey storytellers.

All true statements.

The Bucks chasing away viewers? You’re just a fucking bold-faced liar.


----------



## Saintpat

bdon said:


> The Bucks aren’t holding FTR back. The Bucks aren’t chasing away viewers when they basically hold the rating vs literally watching 200k viewers leave when Bryan comes on television. Punk is a fucking prick. Punk is a draw, but proven to be just slightly more than Mox and the Elite. The Bucks fucking suck and are cringey storytellers.
> 
> All true statements.
> 
> The Bucks chasing away viewers? You’re just a fucking bold-faced liar.


Correct me if I’m wrong here, but more than 1M people had AEW on when this week’s episode started. The Bucks were in the main event. Fewer than 800k hung around or tuned back in to see their match.

That’s not maintaining. It’s losing 200K.


----------



## bdon

Saintpat said:


> Correct me if I’m wrong here, but more than 1M people had AEW on when this week’s episode started. The Bucks were in the main event. Fewer than 800k hung around or tuned back in to see their match.
> 
> That’s not maintaining. It’s losing 200K.


200k fans left when Bryan came on television. It’s hard to talk customers back into your business.

200k vs 9k. Math is easy.


----------



## DammitChrist

Saintpat said:


> Correct me if I’m wrong here, but more than 1M people had AEW on when this week’s episode started. The Bucks were in the main event. Fewer than 800k hung around or tuned back in to see their match.
> 
> That’s not maintaining. It’s losing 200K.


Again, how are the Young Bucks (or even Kenny Omega) even responsible for those 200+ K viewers when that dip occurred *long* before that trios match even started?

That small dip from Q7 through Q8 is clearly being overblown, and not nearly as much of a significant difference as the one from Q1 through Q2.

Edit:

Honestly, us fans get the right to be super optimistic or extremely vindicated once Dynamite inevitably rises up to 1+ million viewers within the next couple of months because this argument is beyond redundant at this point, and it's going in circles.


----------



## bdon

The Bucks aren’t even in an important position on the show. They’re in a trios setting that, while fun, is clearly an undercard story, no matter how much they want to pretend Trios can catch on in America.

Bryan is a singles wrestler in a faction feud that is prominently displayed throughout the show. Bryan routinely has 200k viewers tune out while he is on TV.

Not sure how anyone can blame Bryan’s failures on the Bucks, who do suck.


----------



## drougfree

Fire the elite goons , push Punk to the moon


----------



## Saintpat

DammitChrist said:


> Again, how are the Young Bucks (or even Kenny Omega) even responsible for those 200+ K viewers when that dip occurred *long* before that trios match even started?
> 
> That small dip from Q7 through Q8 is clearly being overblown, and not nearly as much of a significant difference as the one from Q1 through Q2.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Honestly, us fans get the right to be super optimistic or extremely vindicated once Dynamite inevitably rises up to 1+ million viewers within the next couple of months because this argument is beyond redundant at this point, and it's going in circles.


Because they’re in the main event and 200k people who were watching at the start noped the fuck out and didn’t stick around for the biggest match on the show. Nor did they come back for it.

That’s the opposite of being a draw.


----------



## Saintpat

bdon said:


> 200k fans left when Bryan came on television. It’s hard to talk customers back into your business.
> 
> 200k vs 9k. Math is easy.


When people don’t stick around for the main event and, if they switch the channel, don’t tune back in … that’s 200k who didn’t watch their match who were tuned in when AEW started.

That’s losing 200k viewers.


----------



## VamosRamos




----------



## Hotdiggity11

Saintpat said:


> When people don’t stick around for the main event and, if they switch the channel, don’t tune back in … that’s 200k who didn’t watch their match who were tuned in when AEW started.
> 
> That’s losing 200k viewers.



Correct. According to Bdon’s logic, viewership never goes anywhere but down. Which isn’t really the case. A portion of the audience just isn’t that interested in the trios performance art act.


----------



## bdon

Saintpat said:


> When people don’t stick around for the main event and, if they switch the channel, don’t tune back in … that’s 200k who didn’t watch their match who were tuned in when AEW started.
> 
> That’s losing 200k viewers.


Anakin vs Obi-Wan at the end of Revenge of the Sith is a phenomenal finale. When I see it on, I stop and watch it every time. It is tense as fuck, despite having watched it a hundred times.

I will not sit through the entire movie to get to that point, nor will I wait around, checking my watch to see if it’s time to flip back.

You want the main event to do big numbers, you need to build up to it. It needs to be a crescendo. This is storytelling 101. Doing bullshit prior, leads to bullshit finales. Tommy Gunn vs Rocky Balboa is one of my favorite Rocky fights, “Aye yo, Tommy! I ain’t hear no bell!!! One more round. One more round.”, but that movie sucks so bad I often forget that it even exists.

We all know I fucking LOVE Sting, but this show has sucked so fucking bad for 2 goddamned months that I couldn’t tell you what he has been doing cause I refuse to hate watch through 2 hours hoping to see Sting like I used to do.

When the show was full of fun shit going on in 2021, The Elite were the night’s high point often. Why is that? Because the audience were not chased away having to watch bullshit in between. If I expect a steak dinner, I won’t wait through appetizers consisting of potted meat and government cheese to get to that steak - I have better options.


----------



## CovidFan

Saintpat said:


> Because they’re in the main event and 200k people who were watching at the start noped the fuck out and didn’t stick around for the biggest match on the show. Nor did they come back for it.


tbf to AEW and DC, a lot of those people who were there at the beginning didn't come back for it because they weren't there for wrestling in the first place. Haven't read the whole exchange so maybe DC said that already but it's a pretty weak and disingenuous argument.


----------



## Saintpat

bdon said:


> Anakin vs Obi-Wan at the end of Revenge of the Sith is a phenomenal finale. When I see it on, I stop and watch it every time. It is tense as fuck, despite having watched it a hundred times.
> 
> I will not sit through the entire movie to get to that point, nor will I wait around, checking my watch to see if it’s time to flip back.
> 
> You want the main event to do big numbers, you need to build up to it. It needs to be a crescendo. This is storytelling 101. Doing bullshit prior, leads to bullshit finales. Tommy Gunn vs Rocky Balboa is one of my favorite Rocky fights, “Aye yo, Tommy! I ain’t hear no bell!!! One more round. One more round.”, but that movie sucks so bad I often forget that it even exists.
> 
> We all know I fucking LOVE Sting, but this show has sucked so fucking bad for 2 goddamned months that I couldn’t tell you what he has been doing cause I refuse to hate watch through 2 hours hoping to see Sting like I used to do.
> 
> When the show was full of fun shit going on in 2021, The Elite were the night’s high point often. Why is that? Because the audience were not chased away having to watch bullshit in between. If I expect a steak dinner, I won’t wait through appetizers consisting of potted meat and government cheese to get to that steak - I have better options.


I agree their storytelling is subpar but I also think a hot main event — if they put MJF vs. Mox in a rematch last, surely it does better numbers than this. Even if people tune out and come back for it. You’ve seen the ratings curves:

Show starts high (in part due to people who were watching Big Bang or whatever before who tune out when they see wrestling come on)

It dips. 

Then it goes up and down segment by segment. 

If the main event is a draw then that segment will rise, not continue to fall off a cliff.

But the Bucks aren’t draws. You know this — you don’t even think they’re draws, so I don’t see what the point is.


----------



## bdon

Saintpat said:


> I agree their storytelling is subpar but I also think a hot main event — if they put MJF vs. Mox in a rematch last, surely it does better numbers than this. Even if people tune out and come back for it. You’ve seen the ratings curves:
> 
> Show starts high (in part due to people who were watching Big Bang or whatever before who tune out when they see wrestling come on)
> 
> It dips.
> 
> Then it goes up and down segment by segment.
> 
> If the main event is a draw then that segment will rise, not continue to fall off a cliff.
> 
> But the Bucks aren’t draws. You know this — you don’t even think they’re draws, so I don’t see what the point is.


The point is that they do not chase away 200k viewers. They may not be able to force 200k viewers to return as a mid/undercard trios act, but they did not chase away 200k viewers. That distinction falls solely on Bryan Danielson who has done that once per month for several fucking months now. 

It is disingenuous to look at those quarterlies and immediately scream about the Bucks ruining the ratings, is it not? They’re in a fucking trios story. Is that supposed to be viewed as importantly as the World Title picture..? I don’t see how anyone could say that it is anything more than a midcard act to keep them on the show, maintaining ratings, while not being the focal point.

Maybe you’d prefer they do a Cody or Punk, book themselves far more importantly than the World Title..?


----------



## Jay Trotter

United Empire vs Death Triangle did 987K and 993K quarter hours in the main event on 8/24. In the previous week on 8/17 for The Elite's BIG reunion in Omega's BIG return to action after 9 months, it was a 952K and 863K quarter hours in the main event. Near 100K loss from start to finish. So, let's book the "dream" trio match for the main event on 8/31 cause surely Omega and Ospreay sharing a ring will draw a little bit, right? 929K and 896K. 

Fast forward 2 1/2 months later as the "heart and soul of AEW" makes a second BIG return after sitting out a suspension. Survey Says? The Elite continue to decrease instead of increase the viewership in their quarter hours. Back to back weeks on 11/23 to post a 864K to open second hour and on 11/30 to post a 792K in the main event. At this point, Omega and Bucks should come out wearing t-shirts with a minus sign (-) cause that's all they've been doing to the ratings on two separate overhyped comeback tours. Will they book themselves to open next week to avoid a 0-5? 

Is it a trio match problem? Death Triangle vs United Empire didn't have a problem posting good quarter hours. Is it a main event problem that will at times be a low point? ROH title that few care about vs NJPW guy that few know about saw gains in viewers the week before. Is it an Elite problem? Maybe these guys don't have the star power they think in the USA. Maybe some are burned out on having to watch the exact same style of DWTS matches with them going on three years. #Niche.


----------



## bdon

Jay Trotter said:


> United Empire vs Death Triangle did 987K and 993K quarter hours in the main event on 8/24. In the previous week on 8/17 for The Elite's BIG reunion in Omega's BIG return to action after 9 months, it was a 952K and 863K quarter hours in the main event. Near 100K loss from start to finish. So, let's book the "dream" trio match for the main event on 8/31 cause surely Omega and Ospreay sharing a ring will draw a little bit, right? 929K and 896K.
> 
> Fast forward 2 1/2 months later as the "heart and soul of AEW" makes a second BIG return after sitting out a suspension. Survey Says? The Elite continue to decrease instead of increase the viewership in their quarter hours. Back to back weeks on 11/23 to post a 864K to open second hour and on 11/30 to post a 792K in the main event. At this point, Omega and Bucks should come out wearing t-shirts with a minus sign (-) cause that's all they've been doing to the ratings on two separate overhyped comeback tours. Will they book themselves to open next week to avoid a 0-5?
> 
> Is it a trio match problem? Death Triangle vs United Empire didn't have a problem posting good quarter hours. Is it a main event problem that will at times be a low point? ROH title that few care about vs NJPW guy that few know about saw gains in viewers the week before. Is it an Elite problem? Maybe these guys don't have the star power they think in the USA. Maybe some are burned out on having to watch the exact same style of DWTS matches with them going on three years. #Niche.


_sigh_

Again with the ignorant shit. Omega’s return night did not “start” at 952k. That 15 min quarter hour GAINED 100k viewers. After a full quarter hour of watching trios bullshit, 90k checked out…because no one gave a flying fuck about Andrade and two guys with a total Dynamite exposure of 2 episodes. Still…a 10k GAIN over the segment prior, despite 30 minutes of action.

Last week, they gained 6k viewers. This week they lost 9k.

Bryan Danielson immediately lost 200k viewers on both episodes, the Omega return night and this week’s episode, but you go ahead and keep railing about the Elite holding down the ratings, chief.


----------



## bdon

Playing by your definition of losing 100k viewers, Sting, Punk, MJF, Darby, and FTR lost 15k viewers in a story-driven match involving the company’s prized feud and top angle of Punk and MJF. Couldn’t even outdraw that hot Adam Cole and Orange Cassidy feud.

Pretty fucking ignorant indeed.


----------



## bdon

Also comical talking about the Elite booking themselves to open when everyone in here was laughing at how Punk was opening every show for nearly 3 months straight, followed by Bryan Danielson, followed by Mox, etc.


----------



## Saintpat

bdon said:


> The point is that they do not chase away 200k viewers. They may not be able to force 200k viewers to return as a mid/undercard trios act, but they did not chase away 200k viewers. That distinction falls solely on Bryan Danielson who has done that once per month for several fucking months now.
> 
> It is disingenuous to look at those quarterlies and immediately scream about the Bucks ruining the ratings, is it not? They’re in a fucking trios story. Is that supposed to be viewed as importantly as the World Title picture..? I don’t see how anyone could say that it is anything more than a midcard act to keep them on the show, maintaining ratings, while not being the focal point.
> 
> Maybe you’d prefer they do a Cody or Punk, book themselves far more importantly than the World Title..?


Well considering the world champion doesn’t wrestle often and has stated that he doesn’t intend to, something else *better* be important. And AEW made a big deal about adding the trios title, the AEW fans clamored for it and they are … the Elite. By no means are they some kind of midcard act … they’re considered to be top stars/draws in the promotion.

Whatever you or I think of them, AEW sees them as a main event act … hence them being in the main event. If they’re not worth tuning in for, they are being booked above their station by the TV audience reaction.

A promotion should book a main event people will stay for … or at least if they turn away because of something they’re not interested in during the course of the show will come back for. People knew what the main event was and didn’t stay nor come back.

I’m not saying failing to get all 200K back is on them, but the fact that by their match the majority beyond their very loyal hardcore fans had already either turned away or not tuned in at all … and they STILL lost even more viewers (9K isn’t a big deal but that’s the most loyal fan base that had sat through an hour and 45 minutes of the show and still decided to nope out. Not good.


----------



## bdon

Saintpat said:


> Well considering the world champion doesn’t wrestle often and has stated that he doesn’t intend to, something else *better* be important. And AEW made a big deal about adding the trios title, the AEW fans clamored for it and they are … the Elite. By no means are they some kind of midcard act … they’re considered to be top stars/draws in the promotion.
> 
> Whatever you or I think of them, AEW sees them as a main event act … hence them being in the main event. If they’re not worth tuning in for, they are being booked above their station by the TV audience reaction.
> 
> A promotion should book a main event people will stay for … or at least if they turn away because of something they’re not interested in during the course of the show will come back for. People knew what the main event was and didn’t stay nor come back.
> 
> I’m not saying failing to get all 200K back is on them, but the fact that by their match the majority beyond their very loyal hardcore fans had already either turned away or not tuned in at all … and they STILL lost even more viewers (9K isn’t a big deal but that’s the most loyal fan base that had sat through an hour and 45 minutes of the show and still decided to nope out. Not good.


Again: when has AEW ever placed the most important thing on the show in the main event? Punk rarely was at the end of the show. Omega and Danielson faced off as the opener. Britt Baker and Ruby Soho was really the most important aspect of Grand Slam 1, really?

The Trios title will fall to the wayside as soon as the Elite are no longer involved, because it is an unimportant storyline for an undercard title. Just like it is in NJPW.


----------



## Saintpat

bdon said:


> Again: when has AEW ever placed the most important thing on the show in the main event? Punk rarely was at the end of the show. Omega and Danielson faced off as the opener. Britt Baker and Ruby Soho was really the most important aspect of Grand Slam 1, really?
> 
> The Trios title will fall to the wayside as soon as the Elite are no longer involved, because it is an unimportant storyline for an undercard title. Just like it is in NJPW.


What match on that show was more important in the way it has been promoted or presented — Tony rolled out the OMG BEST OF SEVEN OMG trios thing (which the Bucks probably wanted because they wanted a spotlight) and made a big deal out of it. The next most important segments on this show were billed as ‘we’ll hear from …’


----------



## bdon

Saintpat said:


> What match on that show was more important in the way it has been promoted or presented — Tony rolled out the OMG BEST OF SEVEN OMG trios thing (which the Bucks probably wanted because they wanted a spotlight) and made a big deal out of it. The next most important segments on this show were billed as ‘we’ll hear from …’


That trios title match: where was it on the PPV card again? Ahhh. That’s right… 

Tony can tell us Daniel Garcia/Wheeler Yuta for the nothing ROH whatever title that we don’t care about is important…doesn’t make it so.


----------



## Saintpat

bdon said:


> That trios title match: where was it on the PPV card again? Ahhh. That’s right…
> 
> Tony can tell us Daniel Garcia/Wheeler Yuta for the nothing ROH whatever title that we don’t care about is important…doesn’t make it so.


You say the main match is often put elsewhere on the card. If not the trios, what is the main match on this card?

And Tony Khan, the promoter and decision-maker for AEW, has made the trios best-of-seven the focal point of presumably nearly two months of weekly AEW programming. He announced the matches, dates and places to plant the flag that this wonderful series of matches was the important thing going on for Dynamite through the end of the year.

As for PPV, the Bucks won the inaugural trios championship on the last PPV where they wrestled, didn’t they? The story (and lord knows with this company I use that term loosely) is the Bucks’ quest to win back what is ‘rightfully’ theirs — the whole trios title was created just for them … to put these ‘stars who created AEW’ together and let them run around with gold around their waists … Tony even delayed debuting the trios title until Kenny was back from injury. It’s the Elite’s gift to the Elite.

Don’t try to act like there was some big AEW championship match on Wednesdays card and this was a meaningless throw-in semi-dark walk-off match of no importance to that particular show.

Here’s the ‘poster’ for that episode. The trios match takes up like half the real estate. The other matches promoted were JTTS Bryan vs. Bald FTR Guy (who is a tag performer on a tag team the Elite won’t let near the tag titles) and Ana Jay vs. Willow (and not even Jeff Hardy Willow). There’s no question this was the most important match on the show to AEW … but it wasn’t important to the audience.









AEW Dynamite Results for November 30, 2022


**CONTAINS SPOILERS** Tonight’s episode of AEW DYNAMITE was broadcast live from the Indiana Farmers Coliseum in Indianapolis, IN! Excalibur, Tony Schiavone, and “The Human Suplex Machine” Taz were the broadcast team for tonight’s event. It’s Wednesday night and you know what that means! The show...




www.allelitewrestling.com





If your point is there was nothing important on the show, 200K AEW fans agreed by tuning out for the main event.


----------



## bdon

Saintpat said:


> You say the main match is often put elsewhere on the card. If not the trios, what is the main match on this card?
> 
> And Tony Khan, the promoter and decision-maker for AEW, has made the trios best-of-seven the focal point of presumably nearly two months of weekly AEW programming. He announced the matches, dates and places to plant the flag that this wonderful series of matches was the important thing going on for Dynamite through the end of the year.
> 
> As for PPV, the Bucks won the inaugural trios championship on the last PPV where they wrestled, didn’t they? The story (and lord knows with this company I use that term loosely) is the Bucks’ quest to win back what is ‘rightfully’ theirs — the whole trios title was created just for them … to put these ‘stars who created AEW’ together and let them run around with gold around their waists … Tony even delayed debuting the trios title until Kenny was back from injury. It’s the Elite’s gift to the Elite.
> 
> Don’t try to act like there was some big AEW championship match on Wednesdays card and this was a meaningless throw-in semi-dark walk-off match of no importance to that particular show.
> 
> Here’s the ‘poster’ for that episode. The trios match takes up like half the real estate. The other matches promoted were JTTS Bryan vs. Bald FTR Guy (who is a tag performer on a tag team the Elite won’t let near the tag titles) and Ana Jay vs. Willow (and not even Jeff Hardy Willow). There’s no question this was the most important match on the show to AEW … but it wasn’t important to the audience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Dynamite Results for November 30, 2022
> 
> 
> **CONTAINS SPOILERS** Tonight’s episode of AEW DYNAMITE was broadcast live from the Indiana Farmers Coliseum in Indianapolis, IN! Excalibur, Tony Schiavone, and “The Human Suplex Machine” Taz were the broadcast team for tonight’s event. It’s Wednesday night and you know what that means! The show...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.allelitewrestling.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If your point is there was nothing important on the show, 200K AEW fans agreed by tuning out for the main event.


200k fans left, because Bryan can’t maintain them.

Most people are not going to sit around waiting for one thing on an entire show. I just explained this earlier. You don’t sit through a meal of bologna and government cheese to get a steak.

The trios were not created for the Elite. They are created for all of the factions that run around aimlessly with nothing to do. The Elite are just kicking off the titles to try and dupe audiences into believing they are important.

And using Tony Khan’s bullshit rhetoric as proof that they are important? Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia say hello.


----------



## Saintpat

bdon said:


> 200k fans left, because Bryan can’t maintain them.
> 
> Most people are not going to sit around waiting for one thing on an entire show. I just explained this earlier. You don’t sit through a meal of bologna and government cheese to get a steak.
> 
> The trios were not created for the Elite. They are created for all of the factions that run around aimlessly with nothing to do. The Elite are just kicking off the titles to try and dupe audiences into believing they are important.
> 
> And using Tony Khan’s bullshit rhetoric as proof that they are important? Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia say hello.


On this particular episode, what match was more important?


----------



## bdon

Saintpat said:


> On this particular episode, what match was more important?


I’d argue none of them, because Trios titles are not a thing and will never be a thing, no matter how much the Elite and Tony Khan try to dupe us into believing they’re such an important title that the show’s namesake wants them. Lol

They will either lose this tourney or win and lose the belts to HOB, and the trios title will just float around aimlessly like all of the other titles.

You do realize that is the play, right? Or are you one of those that believe the Bucks and Kenny are so scared of intermingling with the other acts that they had trios titles created to just stay in that lane forever?

Those trios titles don’t mean shit, even if this story is getting intriguing.


----------



## Saintpat

bdon said:


> I’d argue none of them, because Trios titles are not a thing and will never be a thing, no matter how much the Elite and Tony Khan try to dupe us into believing they’re such an important title that the show’s namesake wants them. Lol
> 
> They will either lose this tourney or win and lose the belts to HOB, and the trios title will just float around aimlessly like all of the other titles.
> 
> You do realize that is the play, right? Or are you one of those that believe the Bucks and Kenny are so scared of intermingling with the other acts that they had trios titles created to just stay in that lane forever?
> 
> Those trios titles don’t mean shit, even if this story is getting intriguing.


Well no wonder 200K people tuned out before the main event and viewership dropped steadily across the show segment by segment if there was nothing important happening.

(Yet I’ve seen it praised as a really good episode on here by many.)

I agree that the trios title will lose importance once the EVPs drop them because Tony always gets tired of his new toys (these belts are just trinkets in his toy chest), but for now they’re being treated as important BECAUSE the EVPs hold them. Put them on some other threesome and you won’t see them promoted as ‘OMG BEST OF SEVEN MUST-SEE’ or in main events as the most important match on the show ever again.

Which will further prove my point.


----------



## CovidFan

Saintpat said:


> now they’re being treated as important BECAUSE the EVPs hold them.


No, they don't.


----------



## Saintpat

CovidFan said:


> No, they don't.


LOL, you’re right. I’m from four matches into the future. Should have put the spoiler tag on that one, haha.

But the point is the same. If the EVPs weren’t involved in a spotlighted series of matches to ‘win back the titles they were wrongfully forced to vacate’ then the trios would not be in the most-important-match-on-the-card main event position.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Do people not know what a lead in is? The first seg drop off is because anyone tuned in for the big bang said wtf is this and turned it off.

890k is a more realistic start number if you take away the lead. Then the massive drop off at the end is clearly the Elites fault. 

the bucks are proven ratings killers. Im guessing we need to go back a year and show every large drop they're involved in whether its start, middle or end of show.


----------



## Omos=Next Big Thing

bdon said:


> The Bucks aren’t holding FTR back. The Bucks aren’t chasing away viewers when they basically hold the rating vs literally watching 200k viewers leave when Bryan comes on television. Punk is a fucking prick. Punk is a draw, but proven to be just slightly more than Mox and the Elite. The Bucks fucking suck and are cringey storytellers.
> 
> All true statements.
> 
> The Bucks chasing away viewers? You’re just a fucking bold-faced liar.


OK, so you believe if they showed The Elite vs Death Triangle after the opening segment, they would have kept the 1 million viewers?


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

bdon said:


> 200k fans left, because Bryan can’t maintain them.
> 
> Most people are not going to sit around waiting for one thing on an entire show. I just explained this earlier. You don’t sit through a meal of bologna and government cheese to get a steak.
> 
> The trios were not created for the Elite. They are created for all of the factions that run around aimlessly with nothing to do. The Elite are just kicking off the titles to try and dupe audiences into believing they are important.
> 
> And using Tony Khan’s bullshit rhetoric as proof that they are important? Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia say hello.


But you act like people can't just turn back to the channel when they know an act they like is gonna be on later. Let's say you're right and viewers are in fact turning the channel in droves because of Bryan, those fans know the Elite will be in the main event so shouldn't they have turned back to Dynamite to see them? 

If Stone Cold came back to main event Raw I don't care if the entirety of the show preceeding his match was nothing but squashes with local jobbers people would turn back for Austin.


----------



## bdon

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> But you act like people can't just turn back to the channel when they know an act they like is gonna be on later. Let's say you're right and viewers are in fact turning the channel in droves because of Bryan, those fans know the Elite will be in the main event so shouldn't they have turned back to Dynamite to see them?
> 
> If Stone Cold came back to main event Raw I don't care if the entirety of the show preceeding his match was nothing but squashes with local jobbers people would turn back for Austin.


No. You do not turn away customers and hope that they come back. Simple as that. You don’t fucking send people away. Period.

You build up the show throughout to a crescendo. Each quarter hour should build on the last. Dax vs Bryan SHOULD have been the main event as it is going to be a barn burning, technical masterpiece. The opener should be hot, fast paced and getting your crowd lively.

Formatting this shit wrong buries the talent. Bryan is not someone who should be losing 200k viewers. He should have absolutely been in the main event. Women should also not be starting any top of the hour or half hour break, not even Britt. You are killing your audience with shitty formatting.

Trios matches, even important shit like titles, are an undercard story, perfectly designed for an opener with the fast-paced action, but TK can’t place them in the opener without so many of you crying that they’re just booking themselves first to have the big lead-in rating as we saw so often.

This show sucks from a television standpoint from so many angles. I give Punk shit for barely outdrawing Mox and The Elite, but I’d almost guarantee if the show was formatted better for television, “his” Dynamite would have done better.


----------



## bdon

I would even go as far as to say that they failed Punk’s time as the “Dynamite centerpiece” by forcing him on TV as the opener, followed by Bryan, followed by Mox, etc, trotting out the roster segment by segment from most important to least important.

We all agree that the Bucks suck, but they aren’t the cause of 200k viewers walking away. They are more than capable of drawing a crowd and have shown that ability. Trios matches, no matter how fun they are, just are not important, and we as a western wrestling culture know this. I am an Omega fan and can’t wait for this shit to end, so he can be used properly in the singles department where they are really lacking star power.

But…TK saved these shitty fucking titles, so that he could use and abuse Omega to make them “matter”.


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

bdon said:


> No. You do not turn away customers and hope that they come back. Simple as that. You don’t fucking send people away. Period.
> 
> You build up the show throughout to a crescendo. Each quarter hour should build on the last. Dax vs Bryan SHOULD have been the main event as it is going to be a barn burning, technical masterpiece. The opener should be hot, fast paced and getting your crowd lively.
> 
> Formatting this shit wrong buries the talent. Bryan is not someone who should be losing 200k viewers. He should have absolutely been in the main event. Women should also not be starting any top of the hour or half hour break, not even Britt. You are killing your audience with shitty formatting.
> 
> Trios matches, even important shit like titles, are an undercard story, perfectly designed for an opener with the fast-paced action, but TK can’t place them in the opener without so many of you crying that they’re just booking themselves first to have the big lead-in rating as we saw so often.
> 
> This show sucks from a television standpoint from so many angles. I give Punk shit for barely outdrawing Mox and The Elite, but I’d almost guarantee if the show was formatted better for television, “his” Dynamite would have done better.


The Elite were gone for months and before that Kenny was only just getting back from injury, combine that with the drama and intrigue surrounding their brawl with Punk and viewers should be desperate to see them no matter what. 

Bryan OTOH has lost to Daniel Garcia and isn't involved in any outside drama, imo the Elite in theory should currently be a hotter tv commodity than Bryan all things considered.

And again it's the 21st century I don't care if every segment before the main event was Luther playing a kazoo with his dick, if fans wanted to see the Elite badly enough they would turn back once they knew their match was on. Anyone can quickly check online and see "Oh the Elite's match is on now, guess I'll turn back."


----------



## bdon

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> The Elite were gone for months and before that Kenny was only just getting back from injury, combine that with the drama and intrigue surrounding their brawl with Punk and viewers should be desperate to see them no matter what. Bryan OTOH has lost to Daniel Garcia and isn't involved in any outside drama, imo the Elite in theory should currently be a hotter tv commodity than Bryan all things considered.
> 
> And again it's the 21st century I don't care if every segment before the main even was Luther playing a kazoo with his dick, if fans wanted to see the Elite badly enough they would turn back once they knew their match was on. Anyone can quickly check online and see "Oh the Elite's match is on now, guess I'll turn back."


And yet, television shows do not try and drive away viewers in hopes of getting them back for that one climactic scene.

You act as if fans wanting to see some payoff to the Bucks’ backstage drama should be drawn to a shitty, unimportant set of trios matches that even their fans think was a few matches too long. It isn’t the Bucks’ choice. This is TK booking 101. He has nothing for Bucks and Omega, so he places them in their own little cocoon to keep them from interacting with other top talents and having to see his favorites lose. He is a mark through and through.

How many instances do we have of top guys getting relocated to their “universe”, because TK has nothing for them? Was Jericho and Orange Cassidy the Bucks burying Jericho in a shitty feud that dragged out way too long, because they were scared of him? The Cody Universe? The Moxley and NJPW Old Guy #325 Universe a Bucks booking choice? Was the Bucks Universe after Omega left TV a Bucks choice, or would they prefer to be chasing titles and doing important shit?

TK loves to bury his talent, pulling them off the burner, and letting the heat dissipate.

I can assure you, the NWO would not have saved wrestling if the following weeks, Hogan was booked to do random goofy shit. The minute that Punk and the Bucks fought, TK should have been rewriting his television to slap the titles on the Bucks and dealt with everyone’s crying, saying the Bucks are booking themselves at the top and this and that. That is MONEY.

These stupid goddamn trios titles were supposed to start at Revolution, but with Kenny’s return, TK pushed them back, incapable of adjusting. Why should we think he will do anything to change it now?

That fucking guy sucks ass, man.

tl;dr

If you want to see the Bucks post-Punk to see the Fall Otut, why would you care about a Trios story that doesn’t involve the secondary party? 🤷🏼‍♂️


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

@bdon & @Saintpat need to meet up some place and fight or fuck or something. Damn they argue alot. 

All that "passion" and no payoff has got to suck.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598732160302579712


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Kenny's Ghost said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598732160302579712


earlier he said he was a heel during this time

cody was a lot of things, but never the quarterback or face of AEW


----------



## Saintpat

LifeInCattleClass said:


> earlier he said he was a heel during this time
> 
> cody was a lot of things, but never the quarterback or face of AEW


I’m not a huge Cody fan (don’t hate him either) but he was someone who thought more about putting on a good product than he did about ‘getting his shit in.’ Sorely that is lacking now.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Saintpat said:


> I’m not a huge Cody fan (don’t hate him either) but he was someone who thought more about putting on a good product than he did about ‘getting his shit in.’ Sorely that is lacking now.


mate, i loved Cody - ask anybody

and he was Mr ‘get my shit in’

lets not rewrite history here


----------



## Saintpat

LifeInCattleClass said:


> mate, i loved Cody - ask anybody
> 
> and he was Mr ‘get my shit in’
> 
> lets not rewrite history here


I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree here. His matches never felt like they were overstuffed with every single move in his playbook every time. Compared to the Bucks, say, he was a complete minimalist.

Now did he get angles on TV? Sure. But that’s not ‘I have to get my shit in.’ A guy who has to get his shit in doesn’t get squashed by Brodie Lee.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Saintpat said:


> I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree here. His matches never felt like they were overstuffed with every single move in his playbook every time. Compared to the Bucks, say, he was a complete minimalist.
> 
> Now did he get angles on TV? Sure. But that’s not ‘I have to get my shit in.’ A guy who has to get his shit in doesn’t get squashed by Brodie Lee.


agree to disagree - cause you forget how he got his win back on brodie

in a man event dog collar match wifh Greg the Hammer valentine in attendance

get your shitn, isn’t always moves - its anything you like. And cody likes spectacle and old school shit and grandeur and importance

and blood spots

it had all that in spades. In fact, almost all his matches had


----------



## Saintpat

LifeInCattleClass said:


> agree to disagree - cause you forget how he got his win back on brodie
> 
> in a man event dog collar match wifh Greg the Hammer valentine in attendance
> 
> get your shitn, isn’t always moves - its anything you like. And cody likes spectacle and old school shit and grandeur and importance
> 
> and blood spots
> 
> it had all that in spades. In fact, almost all his matches had


Get your shit in means exactly ‘I want all of my spots/moves in every match.’ It doesn’t mean ‘never loses to someone’ or ‘doesn’t have matches that have a lot of spots/moves.’

I agree that he knew how to make the most of old-school stipulation matches and build in good spots that actually made sense.

But he had plenty of matches that weren’t overloaded with moves. Has there ever been a Bucks match without superkicks? Have they ever allowed themselves to be squashed like Cody did with Lee?


----------



## bdon

MonkasaurusRex said:


> @bdon & @Saintpat need to meet up some place and fight or fuck or something. Damn they argue alot.
> 
> All that "passion" and no payoff has got to suck.


He ain’t been walking right for 2 months. I figured I’d give him a break.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Saintpat said:


> Get your shit in means exactly ‘I want all of my spots/moves in every match.’ It doesn’t mean ‘never loses to someone’ or ‘doesn’t have matches that have a lot of spots/moves.’
> 
> I agree that he knew how to make the most of old-school stipulation matches and build in good spots that actually made sense.
> 
> But he had plenty of matches that weren’t overloaded with moves. Has there ever been a Bucks match without superkicks? Have they ever allowed themselves to be squashed like Cody did with Lee?


had he ever had a match in AEW where there wasn’t some sort of old school wankjob at play?

even the 2min squash

Cody is every bit the bucks equal in living his best life all the time and filling his matches with everything he likes


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> earlier he said he was a heel during this time
> 
> cody was a lot of things, but never the quarterback or face of AEW


Absolutely not.


LifeInCattleClass said:


> mate, i loved Cody - ask anybody
> 
> and he was Mr ‘get my shit in’
> 
> lets not rewrite history here


I wish Chip was around for the incoming rant, so he could remind me to “tell ‘em!!”

Anyways…

_ahem_

Just like Billy Gunn and Road Dogg laughed about in an interview I saw this past summer. Billy literally says, “We didn’t like wrestling. We just wanted to go out there, say our shit, and go to the back.”

The same rings true for Cody. Cody has to get his over-the-top, over-booked finishes like dad. It wasn’t enough to have a wrestling match, every match had to be chock full of pomp and circumstance like 15 minute matches with a Peter Avalon and Sonny Kiss, fucking having to try and get babyface sympathy by bleeding against the companies truest babyface in Jungle Boy, doing a goddamn top rope huricanrana vs Pentagon to show he can do them too, bending the knee and thus taking some of the glory out of Darby’s eventual TV title win, Shaq, Tyson, Sting debuted as Cody is about to get his head bashed by two members of Team Taz who want Darby’s TV title but for some reason aren’t focusing their efforts on Darby, build up Lance Archer only to slay him, build up Malakai while leaving his boots in the ring only to get his win back, Brodie Lee squash only to get his win back 6 weeks later while donning black hair in a spot that fans thought was a signaled heel turn that Cody laughed and said it was Superman returning from the dead…

I could go on, but you get the goddamn picture. Cody is the king of getting his shit in, even if HIS SHIT isn’t about moves, but if you want to make it that, how many CrossRhodes DOES it take to beat a Shawn Spears!?

FUCK CODY RHODES AND CM PUNK!!!


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

bdon said:


> He ain’t been walking right for 2 months. I figured I’d give him a break.


Touché


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Absolutely not.
> 
> I wish Chip was around for the incoming rant, so he could remind me to “tell ‘em!!”
> 
> Anyways…
> 
> _ahem_
> 
> Just like Billy Gunn and Road Dogg laughed about in an interview I saw this past summer. Billy literally says, “We didn’t like wrestling. We just wanted to go out there, say our shit, and go to the back.”
> 
> The same rings true for Cody. Cody has to get his over-the-top, over-booked finishes like dad. It wasn’t enough to have a wrestling match, every match had to be chock full of pomp and circumstance like 15 minute matches with a Peter Avalon and Sonny Kiss, fucking having to try and get babyface sympathy by bleeding against the companies truest babyface in Jungle Boy, doing a goddamn top rope huricanrana vs Pentagon to show he can do them too, bending the knee and thus taking some of the glory out of Darby’s eventual TV title win, Shaq, Tyson, Sting debuted as Cody is about to get his head bashed by two members of Team Taz who want Darby’s TV title but for some reason aren’t focusing their efforts on Darby, build up Lance Archer only to slay him, build up Malakai while leaving his boots in the ring only to get his win back, Brodie Lee squash only to get his win back 6 weeks later while donning black hair in a spot that fans thought was a signaled heel turn that Cody laughed and said it was Superman returning from the dead…
> 
> I could go on, but you get the goddamn picture. Cody is the king of getting his shit in, even if HIS SHIT isn’t about moves, but if you want to make it that, how many CrossRhodes DOES it take to beat a Shawn Spears!?
> 
> FUCK CODY RHODES AND CM PUNK!!!


you see what you did @Saintpat ?

and all cause you did not want to vote


----------



## Saintpat

@bdon just set a personal record with two consecutive posts not blaming Punk for everything from the recession to shooting Archduke Ferdinand to start WWI.

Take a bow and collect your flowers.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you see what you did @Saintpat ?
> 
> and all cause you did not want to vote


I miss Cody. He was a fun target of my ire. Punk legit fucking sucks as a person.


----------



## bdon

Saintpat said:


> @bdon just set a personal record with two consecutive posts not blaming Punk for everything from the recession to shooting Archduke Ferdinand to start WWI.
> 
> Take a bow and collect your flowers.


Sorry. Don’t read my previous post. Lol


----------



## bdon

I really do fucking hate Punk. The world of wrestling would be a better place if he and his fucking fans ceased to exist.


----------



## La Parka

With Cody Rhodes gone, Cole hurt and CM Punk gone and injured.

Who you feuding with next? @bdon


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> With Cody Rhodes gone, Cole hurt and CM Punk gone and injured.
> 
> Who you feuding with next? @bdon


seems like TK and Danielson to me

Jericho is also a valid target


----------



## One Shed

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> And again it's the 21st century I don't care if every segment before the main event was Luther playing a kazoo with his dick


Oh no, please do not let Jericho read this post or it is happening for sure.


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> seems like TK and Danielson to me
> 
> Jericho is also a valid target


this board couldn't handle a @bdon vs TK feud.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> this board couldn't handle a @bdon vs TK feud.


its already simmering brother

the captain is leading the TK izza dumbass charge! Hold onto your hats!


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> seems like TK and Danielson to me
> 
> Jericho is also a valid target


Nah. I don’t mind them being who they are. I get angry when people refuse to open their eyes about certain topics. The way you acted for years over Cody, protecting him and refusing to admit what was clear as day.

Dax is probably the guy who annoys me the most. People not enjoying Bryan isn’t a Bryan issue, but the people who cry about Bucks “chasing away hundreds of thousands of viewers” while being mum about Bryan is not on Bryan. TK being an egomaniac that refuses to put together a team to build a good show is what it is.

But Dax… Dax is a self-important cocksucker. Don’t get the same feelings from Cash. Dax, who I really do think is a fucking amazing wrestler, has a self-importance that will not allow him to fit in any locker room.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Nah. I don’t mind them being who they are. I get angry when people refuse to open their eyes about certain topics. The way you acted for years over Cody, protecting him and refusing to admit what was clear as day.
> 
> Dax is probably the guy who annoys me the most. People not enjoying Bryan isn’t a Bryan issue, but the people who cry about Bucks “chasing away hundreds of thousands of viewers” while being mum about Bryan is not on Bryan. TK being an egomaniac that refuses to put together a team to build a good show is what it is.
> 
> But Dax… Dax is a self-important cocksucker. Don’t get the same feelings from Cash. Dax, who I really do think is a fucking amazing wrestler, has a self-importance that will not allow him to fit in any locker room.


i still like Cody xD

but obvs a lot of the stuff you said turned out correct about him

still hopes he comes back one day

also, Dax - yeah, way too up his own ass


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i still like Cody xD
> 
> but obvs a lot of the stuff you said turned out correct about him
> 
> still hopes he comes back one day
> 
> also, Dax - yeah, way too up his own ass


I have a knack for reading people, bro.

And I’d still take Cody back with open arms. His shitty views on wrestling are at least not built in that shitty Bret Hart energy.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i still like Cody xD
> 
> but obvs a lot of the stuff you said turned out correct about him
> 
> still hopes he comes back one day
> 
> also, Dax - yeah, way too up his own ass


Yeah. Dax’s self-importance is through the fucking roof, and he can fuck right off to retirement any day. Great performer, but I wish that he, like Punk and Bret before him, could learn that there is no show without those other 20-30 faces staring back at you in the locker room. Michael Jordan is great, but he isn’t winning rings without every single person on that Bulls roster.

It is honorable to love the business as much as Dax and Bret do, to take it that seriously, but a little fucking self-awareness that not everyone NEEDS to take it that seriously.

The Bucks might annoy the fuck out of me, but their shit worked well enough to spark idea of a company big enough to give you the creative freedom to be seen as more than just a fucking vanilla midget, Dax. Maybe respect their hustle. Maybe respect the hustle of every guy on that roster, because I assure you, their road to this point was likely filled with a lot more goddamn sacrifices you selfish, self-important fucking prick.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Yeah. Dax’s self-importance is through the fucking roof, and he can fuck right off to retirement any day. Great performer, but I wish that he, like Punk and Bret before him, could learn that there is no show without those other 20-30 faces staring back at you in the locker room. Michael Jordan is great, but he isn’t winning rings without every single person on that Bulls roster.
> 
> It is honorable to love the business as much as Dax and Bret do, to take it that seriously, but a little fucking self-awareness that not everyone NEEDS to take it that seriously.
> 
> The Bucks might annoy the fuck out of me, but their shit worked well enough to spark idea of a company big enough to give you the creative freedom to be seen as more than just a fucking vanilla midget, Dax. Maybe respect their hustle. Maybe respect the hustle of every guy on that roster, because I assure you, their road to this point was likely filled with a lot more goddamn sacrifices you selfish, self-important fucking prick.


i have no idea why the Bucks would annoy you

they’re awesome xD


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i have no idea why the Bucks would annoy you
> 
> they’re awesome xD


Wednesday is a perfect example. They went an extra 2 false finishes too many, which annoys the fuck out of me. It’s like the Cody shit: an otherwise good match can absolutely be ruined for me by a shit finish. No need for Matt Jackson to simply kickout of the Lucha Bros’ finish, not there. Not on free TV. And certainly not when only in match 3.

Getting the knees up was great, but that one sequence where Matt refused to be pinned just killed the flow and crescendo they’d built.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Wednesday is a perfect example. They went an extra 2 false finishes too many, which annoys the fuck out of me. It’s like the Cody shit: an otherwise good match can absolutely be ruined for me by a shit finish. No need for Matt Jackson to simply kickout of the Lucha Bros’ finish, not there. Not on free TV. And certainly not when only in match 3.
> 
> Getting the knees up was great, but that one sequence where Matt refused to be pinned just killed the flow and crescendo they’d built.


pffft, superheroes don’t get pinned… thats for mortals


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> pffft, superheroes don’t get pinned… thats for mortals


Well, my line of thinking is the singles star should be the only one gifted with the superhero abilities. Otherwise, you are killing the believability that you CAN lose.

Matt Jackson just established to the audience that a hammer is his only weakness. Everyone knows Kenny is damn near unbeatable. Better just focus on taking out Nick, and if that don’t work, you’re SOL.


----------



## Wolf Mark

3venflow said:


> Meltzer's critique on AEW (for the 'Meltzer says nothing bad about AEW' sect who would be surprised if they listened to/read his stuff more) in relation to the ratings:
> 
> View attachment 140671
> 
> 
> One thing I really agree on is less turns. AEW rarely did heel/face turns in its first couple of years, so that when they did one it felt like an event. Now it's happening all the time. I liked that stability/consistency in alignments.


Wow Dave Meltzer said this? Completely agree with him. I think the MJF heel turn will go down as perhaps one of the biggest blunders in company history. Among many. He had the crowd in the palm of his hands, he was acting heelish yet getting cheered. It was a great character akin to when Eddie Guererro was cheating and stealing but was a babyface. MJF could have used heel tactics but as a face. I think it would have been great.


----------



## IronMan8

A bit US-centric and short-sighted in here

UK numbers at an all-time high 

MJF's segment has over a million plays on YouTube already 

YouTube numbers great across the board

Australia numbers surely up, Aussies love an underdog

Year-on-year is up

Higher ratings than last year's December episode with Punk

Peacock pumping Dalton Castle is back in a week or two

Historically, ratings dip in December and rise in January - big shows are already booked for January

What's not to love?!


----------



## CovidFan

IronMan8 said:


> Year-on-year is up


It depends which way you want to look at it. For the viewership people, it's up 9k which is roughly a 1.1% increase. As for the "demo's the most important thing ever" crowd, it's down .05 which doesn't sound like a lot but that's down 17% yoy.



> Higher ratings than last year's December episode with Punk


I can spin numbers too even if I don't need to: Why are you comparing this past Wednesday's Dynamite that was on November 30th to a Dynamite with Punk on in December of 2021? What if we compare the last week of each November? AEW's down 28k viewers and that same .05 in the demo. Now if somebody fact checked me, they could explain why that's bs just as I've done with yours time and time again.

One last fun fact: This past Dynamite was ahead of only one Dec. 2021 Dynamite. What will you say when we compare the viewership for 2021 and 2022 for the last 3 weeks of the year?



> Historically, ratings dip in December and rise in January - big shows are already booked for January


What "ratings dip in December"? You should look at #s before spewing nonsense.


----------



## IronMan8

CovidFan said:


> It depends which way you want to look at it. For the viewership people, it's up 9k which is roughly a 1.1% increase. As for the "demo's the most important thing ever" crowd, it's down .05 which doesn't sound like a lot but that's down 17% yoy.
> 
> I can spin numbers too even if I don't need to: Why are you comparing this past Wednesday's Dynamite that was on November 30th to a Dynamite with Punk on in December of 2021? What if we compare the last week of each November? AEW's down 28k viewers and that same .05 in the demo. Now if somebody fact checked me, they could explain why that's bs just as I've done with yours time and time again.
> 
> One last fun fact: This past Dynamite was ahead of only one Dec. 2021 Dynamite. What will you say when we compare the viewership for 2021 and 2022 for the last 3 weeks of the year?
> 
> What "ratings dip in December"? You should look at #s before spewing nonsense.


I'm just here to have fun discussing my favourite hobby

We can talk stats if you want, but that's not fun... and anyway, for 68% of us it's better to draw your own conclusion of what the numbers genuinely reflect about the thing you're trying to quantify with numbers

then see if people agree on that discussion level of things

Holla if ya hear me!


----------



## CovidFan

IronMan8 said:


> We can talk stats if you want, but that's not fun


Facts aren't fun when they don't support your narrative .

DC, what up with the eyeroll? Was I wrong somewhere? Do you disagree with facts?  💋


----------



## IronMan8

CovidFan said:


> Facts aren't fun when they don't support your narrative .


Voters like you are highly valued by US politicians

You think an interpretation of a stat is a fact 

Now you're asking me to teach you a hulluva lotta stuff about numbers and I ain't doin' that for free, but feel free to enquire about my rates


Holla if ya hear me!


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> With Cody Rhodes gone, Cole hurt and CM Punk gone and injured.
> 
> Who you feuding with next? @bdon





LifeInCattleClass said:


> seems like TK and Danielson to me
> 
> Jericho is also a valid target


Unfortunately, it is definitely Dax and Samoa Joe. Dax for being another self-important cocksucker, and Joe for being a pretentious tough guy who thinks in the world of scripted fights he should no-sell other guys’ shit like goddamn Goldberg.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Unfortunately, it is definitely Dax and Samoa Joe. Dax for being another self-important cocksucker, and Joe for being a pretentious tough guy who thinks in the world of scripted fights he should no-sell other guys’ shit like goddamn Goldberg.


i can live with both of those xD


----------



## FrankieDs316

Awful rating. AEW has once again hit another low spot. Nobody want to see the elite in a best of 7. I also think a lot of fans are turned off by them cause if their backstage politics


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i can live with both of those xD


The Dax one sucks, because I absolutely love watching the guy work. He’s a tremendous talent that always makes you care about himself AND his opponent.

Samoa Joe doing that “I just nonchalantly walk out of the way of guys jumping at me” buries every single luchadore from Rey Mysterio to Rey Fenix, every high work rate guy from Shawn Michaels and RVD to Jeff Hardy and Darby.

If you want to be “tough”, take your fat ass to the octagon, you fucking prick. I get that some fans hate the high-flying shit, but at what point do we draw a line? Next thing you know, in an effort to get more over, Wardlow isn’t accepting any move that someone uses from the top rope, because “why should I? Joe doesn’t…” In an effort to show HIS toughness and seriousness, Hobbs begins no-selling even a simple Irish whip.

Before you know it, Jake Hager is world champion, because “fuck everyone, none of you can fucking touch me.”


----------



## bdon

FrankieDs316 said:


> Awful rating. AEW has once again hit another low spot. Nobody want to see the elite in a best of 7. I also think a lot of fans are turned off by them cause if their backstage politics


Bucks to blame for WWE’s fandom being nearly ripped in half once Punk and his goddamn fans left, burning the place to the ground on their way out?


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Unfortunately, it is definitely Dax and Samoa Joe. Dax for being another self-important cocksucker, and *Joe for being a pretentious tough guy who thinks in the world of scripted fights he should no-sell other guys’ shit like goddamn Goldberg.*


Is it pretentious tough guy shit is when Sting spends 4 decades hulking up and no selling moves and scaring off hoardes of people, even now in his 60s? Or is it just an accepted spot that Sting can get off because he's Sting and got it over

You missed Joe's rise, but he was a big deal at one point and that's a signature spot that works for him. It's not even about him being tough, its more getting a leg up on a quicker opponent.


----------



## .christopher.

Credit to @bdon 

This thread was getting stale, but his tears have brought a spark back to it.


----------



## bdon

.christopher. said:


> Credit to @bdon
> 
> This thread was getting stale, but his tears have brought a spark back to it.


I miss Cody rants mid-Dynamite. Lmao


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Is it pretentious tough guy shit is when Sting spends 4 decades hulking up and no selling moves and scaring off hoardes of people, even now in his 60s? Or is it just an accepted spot that Sting can get off because he's Sting and got it over
> 
> You missed Joe's rise, but he was a big deal at one point and that's a signature spot that works for him. It's not even about him being tough, its more getting a leg up on a quicker opponent.


No, it’s an old school spot by an old school guy from a time period when every great wrestler did that specific spot.

Joe is the only person who just walks out of the line of fire, making everyone who has ever engaged in the spot look stupid.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 361,000
18-49: 0.08

#60 on cable. Smackdown on FS1 finished #5 with 0.26/902,000.

That's an appalling key demo rating for AEW Rampage and its lowest ever (previous lowest: 0.10). Second lowest total viewers. Arguably the first time in AEW history that one of their Nielsen ratings has been in 'potential cancellation' territory when all factors are taken into consideration (ie. normal timeslot).

*Last two months*

11/25: 411,000 / 0.11
11/18: 445,000 / 0.14
11/11: 456,000 / 0.11
11/4: 455,000 / 0.14
10/28: 378,000 / 0.12
10/21: 480,000 / 0.13
10/14: 458,000 / 0.17
10/7: 404,000 / 0.13


----------



## CovidFan

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewers: 361,000
> 18-49: 0.08


your new avatar + under title = 

ratings =


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Just cancel Rampage. Literally no one cares anymore.*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599892690342404096


----------



## RapShepard

5 Star Giulia  said:


> *Just cancel Rampage. Literally no one cares anymore.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599884074188910592*


Or care about it lol. 

Dark and Rampage both started with a few worthwhile cards, then they just started not giving a fuck.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I haven't watched Rampage in weeks/months and I was an inveterate AEW fan. I honestly can't remember the last one I watched because it was certainly forgettable.

That ratings is no bueno.


----------



## Geeee

Rampage with that Friday Night Impact rating. I actually thought this show was entertaining but admittedly the card was not appealing. There's kind of a catch 22 here. Like this Rampage had a lot of stuff happening, yet the perception of Rampage is that "nothing happens" on it. I don't know how you resolve this. If stuff happens on Rampage, then people will be confused because they didn't see it and if stuff doesn't happen on Rampage, then there's no reason to watch it.

Like if Athena ever shows up on Dynamite again...people are gonna be super confused because her heel turn has taken place entirely on Dark, Elevation and Rampage.


----------



## Boldgerg

I can't believe people didn't tune in to see Orange Cassidy vs QT Marshall. Incredible.

It's almost as if they're a couple of completely embarrassing fucking nerds who shouldn't be on TV at all.


----------



## bdon

Geeee said:


> Rampage with that Friday Night Impact rating. I actually thought this show was entertaining but admittedly the card was not appealing. There's kind of a catch 22 here. Like this Rampage had a lot of stuff happening, yet the perception of Rampage is that "nothing happens" on it. I don't know how you resolve this. If stuff happens on Rampage, then people will be confused because they didn't see it and if stuff doesn't happen on Rampage, then there's no reason to watch it.
> 
> Like if Athena ever shows up on Dynamite again...people are gonna be super confused because her heel turn has taken place entirely on Dark, Elevation and Rampage.


Friday night death slot. I said from Day 1 the show was doomed.


----------



## DammitChrist

Sure, let's _cancel_ a prominent wrestling show like Rampage just because it's been stuck on the death slot for a year now, and let's reduce the amount of TV opportunities/time that various talents on the AEW roster receive too.

That's totally not a costly move to do at all.



Boldgerg said:


> I can't believe people didn't tune in to see Orange Cassidy vs QT Marshall. Incredible.
> 
> It's almost as if they're a couple of completely embarrassing fucking nerds who shouldn't be on TV at all.


Nah, Orange Cassidy is a great talent who's insanely popular with the AEW audience. They should do the opposite of this advice by continuing to feature Cassidy often on TV.


----------



## 3venflow

Geeee said:


> Rampage with that Friday Night Impact rating. I actually thought this show was entertaining but admittedly the card was not appealing. There's kind of a catch 22 here. Like this Rampage had a lot of stuff happening, yet the perception of Rampage is that "nothing happens" on it. *I don't know how you resolve this*. If stuff happens on Rampage, then people will be confused because they didn't see it and if stuff doesn't happen on Rampage, then there's no reason to watch it.


Marquee names on every Rampage in interesting matches without giving away premium PPV level matches. It can be done, the roster is there and they have a large pool of outsiders they can use too. The results might not be instant but if fans are reconditioned to see Rampage as a B show instead of a C/D show, it might add a decent amount to their numbers.

A random Rampage card plucked from my brain:

Bandido vs. Rey Fenix vs. Mascara Dorada (opening 10 min)
Powerhouse Hobbs vs. Ortiz (3~5 min)
Jamie Hayter & Britt Baker vs. Hikaru Shida & Riho (6~8 min)
Jon Moxley & Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Jericho & Jake Hager (closing 10~15 min)

Vignettes/promos/in-ring angles interspersed.

Every match has Dynamite level talent but every match has a wrestler who can take an L.

They should have also had one of the Elite vs. DT matches on Rampage last week since they weren't on Dynamite. Not having ANY of the Elite/DT matches on Rampage is telling about how TK views that show right now. This is the same program that aired Omega vs. Christian for the IMPACT World Title.

In a way, I don't totally blame Tony Khan. The Friday night timeslot has such a low ceiling that it's never going to do mega-numbers. But I still think with the roster he has, a show can be put together that interests more of the fanbase. And if he wants that extra eight figures per year or whatever Rampage earns them, he needs to put more effort in as 0.08 is a rating that should set off a few alarm bells.


----------



## Saintpat

3venflow said:


> Marquee names on every Rampage in interesting matches without giving away premium PPV level matches. It can be done, the roster is there and they have a large pool of outsiders they can use too. The results might not be instant but if fans are reconditioned to see Rampage as a B show instead of a C/D show, it might add a decent amount to their numbers.
> 
> A random Rampage card plucked from my brain:
> 
> Bandido vs. Rey Fenix vs. Mascara Dorada (opening 10 min)
> Powerhouse Hobbs vs. Ortiz (3~5 min)
> Jamie Hayter & Britt Baker vs. Hikaru Shida & Riho (6~8 min)
> Jon Moxley & Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Jericho & Jake Hager (closing 10~15 min)
> 
> Vignettes/promos/in-ring angles interspersed.
> 
> Every match has Dynamite level talent but every match has a wrestler who can take an L.
> 
> They should have also had one of the Elite vs. DT matches on Rampage last week since they weren't on Dynamite. Not having ANY of the Elite/DT matches on Rampage is telling about how TK views that show right now. This is the same program that aired Omega vs. Christian for the IMPACT World Title.
> 
> In a way, I don't totally blame Tony Khan. The Friday night timeslot has such a low ceiling that it's never going to do mega-numbers. But I still think with the roster he has, a show can be put together that interests more of the fanbase. And if he wants that extra eight figures per year or whatever Rampage earns them, he needs to put more effort in as 0.08 is a rating that should set off a few alarm bells.


I’m not saying Rampage needs its own separate roster but I think they could rotate some higher-level talent to there for, say, a two- or three-month angle to play out — Miro or Wardlow or pick your poison — and then rotate that person to Dynamite with some ready-made short video packages recapping what people missed with their storyline (which makes Dynamite viewers say ‘hey there is something happening there’) and then rotate another top talent or two over.

So you’d know, for instance, that if you tune into Rampage over a couple of months you’d be getting Darby vs. Miro playing out or whatever. Then a few months later it’s Samoa Joe and … whoever. And in the Rampage midcard give Hook a feud and some development that plays out over a month or so. Then give him another. Make him a mainstay there for a bit. (Just throwing out names … the roster is deep enough that you can use some names on Friday nights and give them something real to do and make it matter.)

It’s not hard. Give it a bit of star power and tell some good stories (I realize that’s a big ask of Tony lately) and you can drag some viewers over.

Right now it’s just mostly random people and random matches.


----------



## bdon

Saintpat said:


> I’m not saying Rampage needs its own separate roster but I think they could rotate some higher-level talent to there for, say, a two- or three-month angle to play out — Miro or Wardlow or pick your poison — and then rotate that person to Dynamite with some ready-made short video packages recapping what people missed with their storyline (which makes Dynamite viewers say ‘hey there is something happening there’ and then rotate another top talent or two over.
> 
> So you’d know, for instance, that if you tune into Rampage over a couple of months you’d be getting Darby vs. Miro playing out or whatever. Then a few months later it’s Samoa Joe and … whoever. And in the Rampage midcard give Hook a feud and some development that plays out over a month or so. Then give him another. Make him a mainstay there for a bit. (Just throwing out names … the roster is deep enough that you can use some names on Friday nights and give them something real to do and make it matter.)
> 
> It’s not hard. Give it a bit of star power and tell some good stories (I realize that’s a big ask of Tony lately) and you can drag some viewers over.
> 
> Right now it’s just mostly random people and random matches.


Sad that some random dude on the internet put more effort into marketing and making me want to see Rampage in two paragraphs than Tony Khan has in a single year.

Gotta be the Bucks’ fault.


----------



## Not Lying

Lmao. Fuck Tony Khan for wasting Punk’s return on this stupid ass show.

Should have put some effort but nah, lets have Dark level matches on there.


----------



## bdon

Not Lying said:


> Lmao. Fuck Tony Khan for wasting Punk’s return on this stupid ass show.


Yep. Cared more about popping the rating than getting the most potential eyes on the product. And if memory serves me correctly, he had Punk over there trying to prop the show up every week with meaningless appearances doing nothing vs putting him in cool shit on Dynamite.

Bucks’ fault. Clearly.


----------



## bdon

Tony Khan sucks. Punk, Bucks, Cody, Omega, Jericho…doesn’t matter. The show stands no fucking chance with a booker like TK who not only fails to strike when the iron is hot but seemingly pours water on it to cool it off.

TK has to give up the books and JUST be the Money Mark.


----------



## Econoline

Could understand the low ratings if AEW had a shallow roster but…this program should at least be Sunday night Heat quality but its Velocity level every week!


----------



## Saintpat

Didn’t Tony say he was going to start making Rampage more relevant and use more top talent there with them taking it live sometimes and put a real effort into that?

Oh, yes he did … three moths ago.









Tony Khan Reveals How He Plans To Counter AEW Rampage Ratings Drop - WrestleTalk


Tony Khan has addressed the declining AEW Rampage viewership, and what he plans to do to counter the falling numbers.




wrestletalk.com





I think Tony’s pronouncements operate on the same principle of having someone do something on Dynamite and then they disappear for months on end doing nothing.


----------



## bdon

Saintpat said:


> Didn’t Tony say he was going to start making Rampage more relevant and use more top talent there with them taking it live sometimes and put a real effort into that?
> 
> Oh, yes he did … three moths ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony Khan Reveals How He Plans To Counter AEW Rampage Ratings Drop - WrestleTalk
> 
> 
> Tony Khan has addressed the declining AEW Rampage viewership, and what he plans to do to counter the falling numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wrestletalk.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think Tony’s pronouncements operate on the same principle of having someone do something on Dynamite and then they disappear for months on end doing nothing.


Stop and start. Stop and start. Stop and start.


----------



## DUSTY 74

bdon said:


> I miss Cody rants mid-Dynamite. Lmao


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

I’m curious to see the quarter hours


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599929242854096897


----------



## Geeee

AEW having a tough time with Hunters


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

TK can honestly say Rampage is record setting now. Record low but it's still a record.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Boldgerg said:


> I can't believe people didn't tune in to see Orange Cassidy vs QT Marshall. Incredible.
> 
> It's almost as if they're a couple of completely embarrassing fucking nerds who shouldn't be on TV at all.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599960039871377409


----------



## DammitChrist

Orange Cassidy drawing isn't really a surprise at this point.

This is why Tony Khan is a genius for featuring him on TV every week, and why he should rightfully keep his booking position too


----------



## Hotdiggity11

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewers: 361,000
> 18-49: 0.08
> 
> #60 on cable. Smackdown on FS1 finished #5 with 0.26/902,000.
> 
> That's an appalling key demo rating for AEW Rampage and its lowest ever (previous lowest: 0.10). Second lowest total viewers. Arguably the first time in AEW history that one of their Nielsen ratings has been in 'potential cancellation' territory when all factors are taken into consideration (ie. normal timeslot).
> 
> *Last two months*
> 
> 11/25: 411,000 / 0.11
> 11/18: 445,000 / 0.14
> 11/11: 456,000 / 0.11
> 11/4: 455,000 / 0.14
> 10/28: 378,000 / 0.12
> 10/21: 480,000 / 0.13
> 10/14: 458,000 / 0.17
> 10/7: 404,000 / 0.13


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> Orange Cassidy drawing isn't really a surprise at this point.
> 
> This is why Tony Khan is a genius for featuring him on TV every week, and why he should rightfully keep his booking position too


Sometimes I wonder if your act is so deep that you really hate AEW.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

CovidFan said:


> Sometimes I wonder if your act is so deep that you really hate AEW.


It does feel like a gimmick poster at this point.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Geeee said:


> Rampage with that Friday Night Impact rating. I actually thought this show was entertaining but admittedly the card was not appealing. There's kind of a catch 22 here. Like this Rampage had a lot of stuff happening, yet the perception of Rampage is that "nothing happens" on it. *I don't know how you resolve this.* If stuff happens on Rampage, then people will be confused because they didn't see it and if stuff doesn't happen on Rampage, then there's no reason to watch it.
> 
> Like if Athena ever shows up on Dynamite again...people are gonna be super confused because her heel turn has taken place entirely on Dark, Elevation and Rampage.


You really don't know how to resolve people not giving a fuck about a show that features Orange Cassidy vs QT Marshall and all sorts of other nonsense?

There are about 332 pages in this thread. You can pretty much start on any page and you will find countless posts from users saying how to resolve this..


----------



## Fearless Viper

So SD has beaten Dynamite this week viewership wise. Tied on demo.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Hotdiggity11 said:


> It does feel like a gimmick poster at this point.


He went full Kanye, you never go full Kanye.


----------



## Wolf Mark

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599960039871377409


Says a lot about what the AEW faithful likes.


----------



## Geeee

NathanMayberry said:


> You really don't know how to resolve people not giving a fuck about a show that features Orange Cassidy vs QT Marshall and all sorts of other nonsense?
> 
> There are about 332 pages in this thread. You can pretty much start on any page and you will find countless posts from users saying how to resolve this..


But if you advance main event storylines on Rampage, people will complain about it in the Dynamite thread. Like "why is ... feuding with ..." or "when did ... and ... start teaming together?"


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

Dynamite is doing better than WWE developmental. That's how you know AEW is taking over the wrestling business... 

WWE really have AEW fans defining success like this.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Not sure if anyone posted this from 2 weeks ago but here is the quarter hours from a couple of weeks ago


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600166124003303424


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## DUD

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600166124003303424


----------



## theshape31

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600166124003303424





DUD said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600166124003303424


Did you two plan to wear the same clothes today, or was it just plain luck?


----------



## DUD

theshape31 said:


> Did you two plan to wear the same clothes today, or was it just plain luck?


We're the bots Tony Khan warned you about.


----------



## Shaz Cena

Hotdiggity11 said:


> It does feel like a gimmick poster at this point.


I think he's Tony Khan.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Hey just in case these weren't posted yet.











__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600166124003303424


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Dr. Middy said:


> Hey just in case these weren't posted yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600166124003303424




Wait a minute, I thought Bdon claimed AEW can never get fans back once they lose them. How did the closing segment do the highest overall viewership numbers with this logic?


----------



## NathanMayberry

DammitChrist said:


> Orange Cassidy drawing isn't really a surprise at this point.
> 
> This is why Tony Khan is a genius for featuring him on TV every week, and why he should rightfully keep his booking position too


Imagine calling 380,000 viewers on a national network drawing..


----------



## kingfunkel

Rampage needs a full reboot. This rating just drives the point home.
I don't even watch it, feels like jobber central.


----------



## IronMan8

I watch 2 hours of wrestling in the week leading up to Rampage, so I'm fresh for it, but I imagine WWE viewers would be way too fatigued to care (especially those watching on DVR delay so they miss the start of Rampage)

WWE had a PPV last week right? That's 3 hours of a PPV, then Raw, Dynamite, SD... for those of you who watch both companies, are you still watching Rampage in weeks with WWE PPVs?




kingfunkel said:


> Rampage needs a full reboot. This rating just drives the point home.
> I don't even watch it, feels like jobber central.


I thought this week's episode was fun, you should try it!


----------



## bigwrestlingfan22

IronMan8 said:


> I watch 2 hours of wrestling in the week leading up to Rampage, so I'm fresh for it, but I imagine WWE viewers would be way too fatigued to care (especially those watching on DVR delay so they miss the start of Rampage)
> 
> WWE had a PPV last week right? That's 3 hours of a PPV, then Raw, Dynamite, SD... for those of you who watch both companies, are you still watching Rampage in weeks with WWE PPVs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought this week's episode was fun, you should try it!


Rampage is the absolute drizzling shits. I have way too much going in my life to watch that trash. Only the most hardcore of AEW fans watch it.


----------



## bdon

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Wait a minute, I thought Bdon claimed AEW can never get fans back once they lose them. How did the closing segment do the highest overall viewership numbers with this logic?


At this low of a number, someone changjng the channel and passing by could raise the numbers lmao


----------



## IronMan8

bigwrestlingfan22 said:


> Rampage is the absolute drizzling shits. I have way too much going in my life to watch that trash. Only the most hardcore of AEW fans watch it.


Do you watch WWE?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

bdon said:


> At this low of a number, someone changjng the channel and passing by could raise the numbers lmao




lol'd.


----------



## kingfunkel

IronMan8 said:


> I thought this week's episode was fun, you should try it!


I've tried to watch rampage numerous times and it's god awful. To the point I've just completely given up on it. Yeah you might have 1 that's good but I'm not gonna sit through dozens of bad episodes, waiting and hoping that 1 will be enjoyable. 
Unless something interesting is booked and promoted for the card, I'll never watch it again. 

Rampage has lost all its goodwill with me. Unfortunately AEW as a whole is starting to head that way, as far as I'm concerned anyway. Which is bad because I want them to succeed and push wrestling forward.


----------



## bdon

kingfunkel said:


> I've tried to watch rampage numerous times and it's god awful. To the point I've just completely given up on it. Yeah you might have 1 that's good but I'm not gonna sit through dozens of bad episodes, waiting and hoping that 1 will be enjoyable.
> Unless something interesting is booked and promoted for the card, I'll never watch it again.
> 
> Rampage has lost all its goodwill with me. Unfortunately AEW as a whole is starting to head that way, as far as I'm concerned anyway. Which is bad because I want them to succeed and push wrestling forward.


It’s literally barely even canon in Dynamite.

Show sucks.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Rampage in its current incarnation is pretty much later day Saturday Night or Worldwide.

It even had Luther!





The real one's remember the cult following Shark Boy had on Saturday Night.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Rampage was the best weekly show on tv a mere 4 months ago IMO

what changed? Its like after forbidden door the rampage quality went down


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> Imagine calling 380,000 viewers on a national network drawing..


Oh, I can somehow spin this into a positive if you're willing to give me the chance or the permission to do so here. Are you ready?


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, I can somehow spin this into a positive if you're willing to give me the chance or the permission to do so here. Are you ready?


At least you admit that what you do is just spin.


----------



## DammitChrist

One Shed said:


> At least you admit that what you do is just spin.


Uh no; it would just be for this one (which I haven't exactly done yet since I didn't get the green light to do it atm).


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Rampage was the best weekly show on tv a mere 4 months ago IMO
> 
> what changed? Its like after forbidden door the rampage quality went down


Good wrestling, maybe, as I haven’t watched that show in over a year, but when has anything on there even been part of the AEW canon? They failed to even explain when Page threatened the the Bucks to not cheat in his upcoming title match with Kenny, leaving 75% of the audience going, “Huh?”


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Good wrestling, maybe, as I haven’t watched that show in over a year, but when has anything on there even been part of the AEW canon? They failed to even explain when Page threatened the the Bucks to not cheat in his upcoming title match with Kenny, leaving 75% of the audience going, “Huh?”


yeah, i primarily mean wrestling

most of the ‘story’ should happen on Dynamite - hell, i’d even make rampage pay-off matches to Dynamite stories that can’t conclude on ppv

anybody watching wrestling at 10 on a friday, is watching cause they like good wrestling matches


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah, i primarily mean wrestling
> 
> most of the ‘story’ should happen on Dynamite - hell, i’d even make rampage pay-off matches to Dynamite stories that can’t conclude on ppv
> 
> anybody watching wrestling at 10 on a friday, is watching cause they like good wrestling matches


Right.

Which goes back to the original point: a large audience is NEVER going to watch a wrestling show at 10pm, no matter how much effort you put into it. You can put Punk/FTR vs Elite storylines on there solely, and at least a quarter of the Dynamite audience will still not be watching Rampage.

If a quarter of the audience isn’t watching, then why would you waste your PPV sellers on that show?

I said before the show ever aired that the 10pm slot meant the show was DOA. Until you can get to an earlier time, you’re fucked. Just scrap it and make that the ROH show. It will still be a better time and station than anything ROH had previously.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Right.
> 
> Which goes back to the original point: a large audience is NEVER going to watch a wrestling show at 10pm, no matter how much effort you put into it. You can put Punk/FTR vs Elite storylines on there solely, and at least a quarter of the Dynamite audience will still not be watching Rampage.
> 
> If a quarter of the audience isn’t watching, then why would you waste your PPV sellers on that show?
> 
> I said before the show ever aired that the 10pm slot meant the show was DOA. Until you can get to an earlier time, you’re fucked. Just scrap it and make that the ROH show. It will still be a better time and station than anything ROH had previously.


well, if there is good wrestling - they’ll at least DVR it and you can sneak in some short promos here and there

but no, 10 on a friday was never gonna be ‘must-see’ - which was always the issue


----------



## ChupaVegasX

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, if there is good wrestling - they’ll at least DVR it and you can sneak in some short promos here and there
> 
> but no, 10 on a friday was never gonna be ‘must-see’ - which was always the issue


People will watch, if you give them a reason to. FOX managed to get the largest audience ever for the game on Friday night. The problem isn’t the day or timeslot, it’s the bad matchups and lack of star power. 

“The Utah-USC Pac-12 Championship game averaged 6.23 million viewers on FOX Friday night, the largest audience in the 11-year history of the game. The previous high was just under 6.0 million for Oregon-Arizona in 2014.”



https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2022/12/pac-12-championship-ratings-most-watched-nba-acc-big-ten-challenge-nhl/


----------



## bdon

ChupaVegasX said:


> People will watch, if you give them a reason to. FOX managed to get the largest audience ever for the game on Friday night. The problem isn’t the day or timeslot, it’s the bad matchups and lack of star power.
> 
> “The Utah-USC Pac-12 Championship game averaged 6.23 million viewers on FOX Friday night, the largest audience in the 11-year history of the game. The previous high was just under 6.0 million for Oregon-Arizona in 2014.”
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2022/12/pac-12-championship-ratings-most-watched-nba-acc-big-ten-challenge-nhl/


You…do realize…

Nevermind. Gonna ignore it. Let you think what you want.


----------



## Saintpat

bdon said:


> You…do realize…
> 
> Nevermind. Gonna ignore it. Let you think what you want.


On tomorrow’s media call, Tony Khan is going to announced new signing: the Pac-12 is All Elite.

The league will debut to great fanfare on Rampage and then be relegated to Dark Elevator before they’re forgotten about entirely to never been seen again.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600558179955392526


----------



## bdon

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600558179955392526


This fucking guy..


----------



## ChupaVegasX

bdon said:


> You…do realize…
> 
> Nevermind. Gonna ignore it. Let you think what you want.


One time event on free tv, totally not the same as a weekly event on cable. However, the rhetoric out there that it’s impossible to get ratings on Friday nights is trash.


----------



## Joe Gill

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600558179955392526


big card for tk = ring of honor #1 contender match for the roh tv title or a dork order 6 man tag match against nightmare factory


----------



## ChupaVegasX

Joe Gill said:


> big card for tk = ring of honor #1 contender match for the roh tv title or a dork order 6 man tag match against nightmare factory


Don’t forget some mid NJPW guy vs Matt Taven or Bandido vs AR Fox in an All-Atlantic eliminator match.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600558179955392526




It will be the greatest night in the history of our great sport.


----------



## DammitChrist

ChupaVegasX said:


> One time event on free tv, totally not the same as a weekly event on cable. However, the rhetoric out there that it’s impossible to get ratings on Friday nights is trash.


It's the Friday night *death slot*. There is a good reason why it's even called that.

Ignoring that fact is just baffling. It's not a rhetoric at all if it's the absolute truth.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> It's the Friday night *death slot*. There is a good reason why it's even called that.
> 
> Ignoring that fact is just baffling. It's not a rhetoric at all if it's the absolute truth.




Smackdown is also in the Friday Night death slot and gets SIGNIFICANTLY more viewership when it's on its normal channel compared to Rampage. But ok.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Smackdown is also in the Friday Night death slot and gets SIGNIFICANTLY more viewership when it's on its normal channel compared to Rampage. But ok.


Except for the fact that Smackdown airs a couple of hours earlier on TV, AND WWE's show (which is far more established with 23+ years of history beforehand) has a 2 year head-start over Rampage's debut on *Friday* nights.

That's a completely disingenuous take (meant to bash Rampage's existence for no good reason) since the flawed comparison to Smackdown isn't even close to having the same situation.


----------



## Serpico Jones

DammitChrist said:


> Except for the fact that Smackdown airs a couple of hours earlier on TV, AND WWE's show (which is far more established with 23+ years of history beforehand) has a 2 year head-start over Rampage's debut on *Friday* nights.
> 
> That's a completely disingenuous take (meant to bash Rampage's existence for no good reason) since the flawed comparison to Smackdown isn't even close to having the same situation.


You have an excuse for everything.


----------



## DammitChrist

Serpico Jones said:


> You have an excuse for everything.


Nah, I have valid *reasons/explanations* for anything that's unjustly criticized 

I give no _excuses. _I prefer giving facts, so there's a big difference


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> Except for the fact that Smackdown airs a couple of hours earlier on TV, AND WWE's show (which is far more established with 23+ years of history beforehand) has a 2 year head-start over Rampage's debut on *Friday* nights.
> 
> That's a completely disingenuous take (meant to bash Rampage's existence for no good reason) since the flawed comparison to Smackdown isn't even close to having the same situation.


The Friday Night Death Slot is defined as 8-11PM EST. It’s irrelevant if it airs earlier than Rampage. It’s literally in the death slot.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_night_death_slot




You gave it a nice try but, as usual, ya came up short. 😁


----------



## VamosRamos

Hotdiggity11 said:


> as usual, ya came up short. 😁


He said he is 5'1 once, so that's not unknown for him


----------



## DammitChrist

Hotdiggity11 said:


> The Friday Night Death Slot is defined as 8-11PM EST. It’s irrelevant if it airs earlier than Rampage. It’s literally in the death slot.
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_night_death_slot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *You gave it a nice try but, as usual, ya came up short.* 😁


Edit:

Uh, never mind, he beat me to it.


----------



## Joe Gill

VamosRamos said:


> He said he is 5'1 once, so that's not unknown for him


dammitchrist is 5'1? well that explains his obsession with vanilla midgets


----------



## VamosRamos

Joe Gill said:


> dammitchrist is 5'1? well that explains his obsession with vanilla midgets


Yeah, in a thread about AJ Lee


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> Edit:
> 
> Uh, never mind, he beat me to it.


Don’t worry, DC. If someone ever picked on or bullied ya, I’d be the first one to defend ya. I’m like 1987 Hogan. Well, you hurt my friends, and you hurt my pride, I gotta be a man; I can't let it slide.


----------



## CovidFan

Serpico Jones said:


> You have an excuse for everything.


I like to mess around with DC's reasoning but he's right on that. First, it is a "death slot" being in very late primetime and second, wrestling fans that want to watch wrestling on Friday's will watch SD since it's on sooner and may be in the mood for more wrestling later. Just as an example, I love AEW ppvs but by the 3 hour mark I'm ready for it to just be over no matter the main event and when Rampage comes on that's 3 hours after SD and already 2 hours of wrestling.

Anyways, after last week's good show and given tonight's pretty stacked card, hopefully they can pull out 950+ tomorrow. Snowball that shit into the two big shows in January and hit 1.1 again.



Spoiler: Spoiler!



One can hope


----------



## ChupaVegasX

CovidFan said:


> I like to mess around with DC's reasoning but he's right on that. First, it is a "death slot" being in very late primetime and second, wrestling fans that want to watch wrestling on Friday's will watch SD since it's on sooner and may be in the mood for more wrestling later. Just as an example, I love AEW ppvs but by the 3 hour mark I'm ready for it to just be over no matter the main event and when Rampage comes on that's 3 hours after SD and already 2 hours of wrestling.
> 
> Anyways, after last week's good show and given tonight's pretty stacked card, hopefully they can pull out 950+ tomorrow. Snowball that shit into the two big shows in January and hit 1.1 again.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> One can hope


Not everyone watches both programs.


----------



## CovidFan

ChupaVegasX said:


> Not everyone watches both programs.


 If they do that's going to take away viewers. That's my whole point.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

CovidFan said:


> If they do that's going to take away viewers. That's my whole point.




I mean, it may suck but Khan agreed to have a wrestling show on Friday night at 10pm. Did he have offers to have it on a different day and time? Maybe, maybe not, but it ended up on Friday nights at 10pm EST. And at the moment, it isn't just the fact that the ratings aren't that good but that they are now touching among the lowest ratings in the history of the show. When that occurs, it is irrelevant that it is in a bad time slot but that there are hundreds of thousands of people who used to watch the show but don't anymore.


----------



## CovidFan

Hotdiggity11 said:


> I mean, it may suck but Khan agreed to have a wrestling show on Friday night at 10pm....


I'm not trying to deny or play off that the show's performing very poorly because it clearly is but others saying that they can somehow get very good ratings when they're on at 10pm after another 2 hour wrestling show airs are just wrong. And this past week was never going to do well at all when they had to deal with viewers who already watched a long event with the PAC 12 game along with stuff already mentioned. Willing to bet that without another huge sporting event on this Friday that it performs a bit better and more in line with the past few months.

I'll cease my discussion on Rampage for now though. Much like when it airs, it's not as fun as Dynamite.


----------



## Omos=Next Big Thing

Meltzer already knows if the rating will not be good this week.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600927886562668544


----------



## Mister Sinister

Bigger cards ain't fixing shit. Rampage needs to be moved to Mondays or Sundays and turned into ROH. Let ROH be the indy flippy, cold booking and pizza cutter massacre with masked commentary, all in masks, and twenty minute wrestling porn opening matches.


----------



## bdon

Hotdiggity11 said:


> I mean, it may suck but Khan agreed to have a wrestling show on Friday night at 10pm. Did he have offers to have it on a different day and time? Maybe, maybe not, but it ended up on Friday nights at 10pm EST. And at the moment, it isn't just the fact that the ratings aren't that good but that they are now touching among the lowest ratings in the history of the show. When that occurs, it is irrelevant that it is in a bad time slot but that there are hundreds of thousands of people who used to watch the show but don't anymore.


No one actively chooses the 10pm Friday night death slot. He’s booking that show exactly as he should, because if he was blowing his load on stories over there, it’d still go unnoticed.

That show was destined to get canceled the minute it was determined to go to 10pm. Like ALL Friday night at 10pm shows.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Nah bruv - they’ll be expected to pull ratings without spectrum boxes fam


----------



## theshape31

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Nah bruv - they’ll be expected to pull ratings without spectrum boxes fam


Yep. I tried watching and it was just frozen video. Had to stream through the TBS app, and NHL will be way down as well.

In before: “AEW is dead!”


----------



## The real Axel

Excuses locked and loaded from the dubbalos, ya love to see it.


----------



## Saintpat

Headline: Tony Khan declares WWE bots attacked Spectrum boxes, says he has data to prove it.


----------



## Saintpat

Update: Spectrum has assured its customers that they didn’t miss much, just a bunch of ROH stuff.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Omos=Next Big Thing said:


> Meltzer already knows if the rating will not be good this week.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600927886562668544




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600929518537277440


----------



## 3venflow

You'll see in the QHs how much impact that had because not everyone with a spectrum box would have given up after half an hour and watched something else.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 840,000
18-49: 0.29

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

11/30: 870,000 / 0.26
11/23: 880,000 / 0.32
11/16: 818,000 / 0.28
11/9: 930,000 / 0.32
11/2: 911,000 / 0.29
10/26: 997,000 / 0.31
10/18: 752,000 / 0.26
10/12: 983,000 / 0.32


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 840,000
> 18-49: 0.29
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 11/30: 870,000 / 0.26
> 11/23: 880,000 / 0.32
> 11/16: 818,000 / 0.28
> 11/9: 930,000 / 0.32
> 11/2: 911,000 / 0.29
> 10/26: 997,000 / 0.31
> 10/18: 752,000 / 0.26
> 10/12: 983,000 / 0.32


not bad - demo needs to go back to +30 though


----------



## Lenny Leonard

No million?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

@LifeInCattleClass Buddy, pal of mine, how you feeling today, fam? Everything good? You alright?


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite finished #3 on cable, being beaten only by the NBA.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Nah bruv - they’ll be expected to pull ratings without spectrum boxes fam


Nuclear Bomb gets dropped during Dynamite;

' No million?' and 'Excuses, excuses.'


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Showstopper said:


> @LifeInCattleClass Buddy, pal of mine, how you feeling today, fam? Everything good? You alright?


with my high art, niche wrestling program for intellectuals that the normal casual pleb won‘t understand?

ecstatic


----------



## kingfunkel

The way Meltzer was going about it, I assumed it was gonna be a 700k number. The ratings are within the same range of what they've been doing for the past month.


----------



## bdon

ripcitydisciple said:


> Nuclear Bomb gets dropped during Dynamite;
> 
> ' No million?' and 'Excuses, excuses.'


Wrong.

“THE BUCKS KEEP RUNNING AWAY FANS BY THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS!!”


----------



## Dr. Middy

If the spectrum thing is true, would kinda make sense the demo is higher but overall views are down. Older folks might have a problem trying to watch AEW outside of TBS on cable.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I know Winter Is Coming next week, but looks like it came early for AEW'S ratings.


----------



## Bahn Yuki

I really enjoyed last night's show. Hopefully this trend can build upward. 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## RLT1981

can't even get back to 900,000 anymore that should tell you right there this company is dead and its all Tony's fault.


----------



## 3venflow

BTW, the two NHL games last night did 219,000 / 0.07 key demo and 181,000 / 0.06 key demo. Meltzer said one of them was affected by the Spectrum issues.


----------



## bdon

RLT1981 said:


> can't even get back to 900,000 anymore that should tell you right there this company is dead and its all Tony's fault.


You missed the memo.

_ahem_

The Bucks chased away hundreds of thousands of viewers.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I do hope their ratings increase because they are def. in a lull right now.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

800s and low 900s are the new norm.


----------



## 3venflow

SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE said:


> I do hope their ratings increase because they are def. in a lull right now.


Ratings are quite seasonal. Like last year they were doing bigger numbers then NBA started and they dropped a bit. RAW did its lowest hourly rating in history on Monday due in part to the competition. Dynamite's numbers are not totally dissimilar to this time last year, but the key demo is down.

Still enough to rank it behind only the NBA. Rampage needs attention but Dynamite is doing fine compared to other shows on cable.

12/1/21 - 861,000 / 0.31
12/8/21 - 872,000 / 0.33

11/30/22 - 870,000 / 0.26
12/7/22 - 840,000 / 0.29

Only time in early December that AEW has seen a spike was when Kenny became champion in 2020, but even then the seasonal trends kicked in and numbers went down soon after.

Meltzer's view is that if they go below 0.20 on Wednesday, questions would be asked then.


----------



## NathanMayberry

kingfunkel said:


> The way Meltzer was going about it, I assumed it was gonna be a 700k number. The ratings are within the same range of what they've been doing for the past month.


If you make making excuses the default, dynamite can never have a bad rating 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

3venflow said:


> Ratings are quite seasonal. Like last year they were doing bigger numbers then NBA started and they dropped a bit. RAW did its lowest hourly rating in history on Monday due in part to the competition. Dynamite's numbers are not totally dissimilar to this time last year, but the key demo is down.
> 
> Still enough to rank it behind only the NBA. Rampage needs attention but Dynamite is doing fine compared to other shows on cable.
> 
> 12/1/21 - 861,000 / 0.31
> 12/8/21 - 872,000 / 0.33
> 
> 11/30/22 - 870,000 / 0.26
> 12/7/22 - 840,000 / 0.29
> 
> Only time in early December that AEW has seen a spike was when Kenny became champion in 2020, but even then the seasonal trends kicked in and numbers went down soon after.
> 
> Meltzer's view is that if they go below 0.20 on Wednesday, questions would be asked then.


Below .20 is unimaginable for me. I would be truly shocked because AEW has been a consistently good demo since its inception.


----------



## Geeee

3venflow said:


> BTW, the two NHL games last night did 219,000 / 0.07 key demo and 181,000 / 0.06 key demo. Meltzer said one of them was affected by the Spectrum issues.


wow you add those together and you get rampage. Maybe sky isn't falling, it's just a little bent


----------



## Serpico Jones

Last night’s show was the best episode of Dynamite in quite some time. I expect the ratings to jump up a bit next week.


----------



## RLT1981

bdon said:


> You missed the memo.
> 
> _ahem_
> 
> The Bucks chased away hundreds of thousands of viewers.


the bucks are part of the problem


bdon said:


> You missed the memo.
> 
> _ahem_
> 
> The Bucks chased away hundreds of thousands of viewers.


AEW has alot of problems that are cause this decline.Tony's love for ROH and shoving it on the main program has alot to do it noone cares about ROH but Tony to blind to see it also its his shit booking on top of that.

If he was smart he would take a step back and hire a writer to book his show to freshen it up and send ROH to youtube until he can reach a tv deal for it.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Serpico Jones said:


> Last night’s show was the best episode of Dynamite in quite some time. I expect the ratings to jump up a bit next week.


Winter is Coming has done really well for them the last two years so we'll see how it fares next week.


----------



## DammitChrist

ripcitydisciple said:


> Nuclear Bomb gets dropped during Dynamite;
> 
> ' No million?' and 'Excuses, excuses.'


'Excuses' are apparently only given for AEW, but not for WWE whenever they see the occasional ratings dip too.

I'm just as consistent with my reasoning for Raw whenever they see some minor dips. They're also dealing with major sports competition, and it's also the month of December (which is historically not a strong month for viewership regarding professional wrestling).

These facts will be conveniently ignored though in favor of rooting for this company to 'fail.'


----------



## Chan Hung

Holy shit, 4 weeks straight and not even 900 thousand. All due to failure of booking, certain people on the shows that nobody wants to see, Bucks are not moving the needle, if anything drawing it back...and Punk was a draw. Not looking good. U read also in person shows are struggling with attendance.


----------



## DammitChrist

RLT1981 said:


> can't even get back to 900,000 anymore that should tell you right there this company is dead and its all Tony's fault.


Yea, I'll remember this post for early 2023 when they inevitably surpass 900+ K viewers by reaching the 1+ million mark.

We get to be vindicated by then since you're clearly wrong.


----------



## Chan Hung

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, I'm saving this post for early 2023 when they inevitably surpass 900+ K viewers by reaching the 1+ million mark.
> 
> We get to be vindicated by then since you're clearly wrong.


What is going to get them to average 950-1million though? If what is happening now, cant?

Edit: Maybe Sasha will bump the show to a million on her debut if done right, but how long will that sustain?


----------



## RLT1981

Chan Hung said:


> Holy shit, 4 weeks straight and not even 900 thousand. All due to failure of booking, certain people on the shows that nobody wants to see, Bucks are not moving the needle, if anything drawing it back...and Punk was a draw. Not looking good. U read also in person shows are struggling with attendance.


also have to say Vince stepping down really killed them once Trips took over I think alot of there fans went back to WWE.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

DammitChrist said:


> 'Excuses' are apparently only given for AEW, but not for WWE whenever they see the occasional ratings dip too.
> 
> I'm just as consistent with my reasoning for Raw whenever they see some minor dips. They're also dealing with major sports competition, and it's also the month of December (which is historically not a strong month for viewership regarding professional wrestling).
> 
> These facts will be conveniently ignored though in favor of rooting for this company to 'fail.'




We'll ignore that:

1. WWE gets significantly higher ratings than AEW on their main shows.

2. WWE is a provable profitable company [Which can be shown from their quarterly reports]. AEW, on the other hand, is a private company and doesn't publicly release their financials despite Khan having no problem bragging about million dollar gates.





RLT1981 said:


> also have to say Vince stepping down really killed them once Trips took over I think alot of there fans went back to WWE.




Not just fans but also wrestling talents. I love Vince and he is a complete fucking legend of this business but like many bookers who hit their 60s and 70s [Watts, Fritz Von Erich, Gagne, etc], he was way past his prime creatively.


----------



## DammitChrist

RLT1981 said:


> the bucks are part of the problem
> 
> 
> AEW has alot of problems that are cause this decline.Tony's love for ROH and shoving it on the main program has alot to do it noone cares about ROH but Tony to blind to see it also its his shit booking on top of that.
> 
> If he was smart he would take a step back and hire a writer to book his show to freshen it up and send ROH to youtube until he can reach a tv deal for it.


Smackdown lost 1+ million viewers this past Friday (which is the 2nd time that's occurred within the past months). 

I suppose WWE has a lot of problems then since a huge wrestling company with 29+ years of being on TV shouldn't ever sink below 1 million viewers. Perhaps Triple H _should_ do better with the stale main event scene (especially on Smackdown) then.

Raw just had the lowest viewership for their 3rd hour in recent memory. Perhaps HHH _should_ hire writers that 'know' what they're doing, and push more workrate women since the whole decision has revolved around 1 overpushed woman.

NXT just fell into the 530+ K mark just last night. Maybe Shawn Michaels (or even Triple H) _should_ move on from both of their world champions, and push other smaller/popular names instead of sacrificing them to the same 2 acts.

Yea, I doubt you have the same consistency for WWE whenever any of their shows see a dip in viewership. AEW shouldn't make any major changes to their good product atm, and hopefully your advice gets no-sold by Tony Khan


----------



## 3venflow

That women's quarter hour is a problem nearly every week.


----------



## DammitChrist

Huh, Claudio Castagnoli, Wheeler Yuta, and Daniel Garcia (who are great wrestlers) unsurprisingly maintained the viewership pretty well once again during their tag match at the top of the 2nd hour.

That's even more reason for Tony Khan to continue pushing those talented men, especially since this continues to prove that they're aren't ratings killers at all. They were within the top 3 highest rated quarterly segment here (and even ALMOST in the top 2 as well) 

Edit:

The same applies for the young demographic numbers too in this case. They were also in the top 3 for this week.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Apparently the NHL game on TNT did 219K with a 0.07 demo too due to the issues, which is unfathomably low.

I don't normally shell out for excuses but I mean, Spectrum did mention it themselves. They tweeted this at 8:30 last night, and just searching Spectrum TBS gives you an huge list of people who had problems last night.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600663858540318720


----------



## DammitChrist

Dr. Middy said:


> Apparently the NHL game on TNT did 219K with a 0.07 demo too due to the issues, which is unfathomably low.
> 
> I don't normally shell out for excuses but I mean, Spectrum did mention it themselves. They tweeted this at 8:30 last night, and just searching Spectrum TBS gives you an huge list of people who had problems last night.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600663858540318720


No worries, these facts equate to 'excuses' somehow.


----------



## RLT1981

Dr. Middy said:


> Apparently the NHL game on TNT did 219K with a 0.07 demo too due to the issues, which is unfathomably low.
> 
> I don't normally shell out for excuses but I mean, Spectrum did mention it themselves. They tweeted this at 8:30 last night, and just searching Spectrum TBS gives you an huge list of people who had problems last night.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600663858540318720


thats all you aew fans do is make excuses its always something.

NewsFlash: this company sucks right now and it will suck until Tony gets his head out of his ass.


----------



## Dr. Middy

RLT1981 said:


> thats all you aew fans do is make excuses its always something.
> 
> NewsFlash: this company sucks right now and it will suck until Tony gets his head out of his ass.


Wrong. 

I've acknowledged their rating and attendance issues a ton, go look back if you want. This one I only note because there were a lot of people who legitimately couldn't watch the show. 

If you find it to be another excuse, sure.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

3venflow said:


> That women's quarter hour is a problem nearly every week.
> 
> View attachment 141393




Women's wrestling has limited appeal to a segment of the audience and that has been pretty consistent for years now.


----------



## RLT1981

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Women's wrestling has limited appeal to a segment of the audience and that has been pretty consistent for years now.


its draws well in WWE its just Tony can't book the women div(or anything for that matter).


----------



## FrankieDs316

ooofff terrible rating


----------



## VamosRamos




----------



## Hotdiggity11

RLT1981 said:


> its draws well in WWE its just Tony can't book the women div(or anything for that matter).



Is it though? The biggest QTQ decline this past Monday Night was from the Asuka/Bayley/Ripley match. A not so sexy -12% plunge.


----------



## DammitChrist

FrankieDs316 said:


> ooofff terrible rating


Smackdown's recent number is 1000x worse.


----------



## RapShepard

Dr. Middy said:


> Wrong.
> 
> I've acknowledged their rating and attendance issues a ton, go look back if you want. This one I only note because there were a lot of people who legitimately couldn't watch the show.
> 
> If you find it to be another excuse, sure.


The thing is it's become a "Boy who cried wolf" type situation when Dynamite ratings don't go up. Because for whatever reason, it's pretty much never chalked up to bad string of shows. It's always

Well this sport, this game show, politics, this holiday, hey TV in general 

So when actually technical difficulties arise it's eyeroll worthy. It's not that these things aren't happening, but when everytime there's a reasoning beyond maybe the show isn't attracting new viewers it becomes pathetic.


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> The thing is it's become a "Boy who cried wolf" type situation when Dynamite ratings don't go up. Because for whatever reason, it's pretty much never chalked up to bad string of shows. It's always
> 
> Well this sport, this game show, politics, this holiday, hey TV in general
> 
> So when actually technical difficulties arise it's eyeroll worthy. It's not that these things aren't happening, but when everytime there's a reasoning beyond maybe the show isn't attracting new viewers it becomes pathetic.


Yes, there's a 'bad string of shows' even though the last 2 Dynamite episodes have been especially great.


----------



## omaroo

Ratings are what they are. Not bad nor anything amazing.

I would be more worried about Rampages ratings get more worse. 

Still expect a bigger increase next year for the rights deal if they keep dynamites ratings closer to 900k.


----------



## VamosRamos




----------



## Kabraxal

Soooo... the main event with the Elite loses viewers as it goes on. Aaaaand FTR/Acclaimed manages to gain viewers. Hmmmmmmmmm.

RIP FTR’s last remaining TV time when the Bucks see that.


----------



## The real Axel

VamosRamos said:


> View attachment 141399


 You managed to top the one with Mox falling off the stage. Well done sir


----------



## RainmakerV2

Being back bra and panties matches. Only solution.


----------



## bdon

Chan Hung said:


> What is going to get them to average 950-1million though? If what is happening now, cant?
> 
> Edit: Maybe Sasha will bump the show to a million on her debut if done right, but how long will that sustain?


When did Punk have them averaging a million?

In 2021, AEW had 7 shows over a million viewers prior to Punk’s arrival, despite 2 months of the show’s time and channel being dicked with due to NBA playoffs. In 2022, they had only 7 shows over a million viewers prior to Kenny’s return.

Punk is not some needle mover.


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> That women's quarter hour is a problem nearly every week.
> 
> View attachment 141393


FtR lOsInG HuNdReDs oF ThOuSaNdS oF vIeWeRs.

And mum is the word from the usual suspects.


----------



## bdon

bdon said:


> When did Punk have them averaging a million?
> 
> In 2021, AEW had 7 shows over a million viewers prior to Punk’s arrival, despite 2 months of the show’s time and channel being dicked with due to NBA playoffs. In 2022, they had only 7 shows over a million viewers prior to Kenny’s return.
> 
> Punk is not some needle mover.


Do you understand how they record these ratings? There is an admitted 10% margin of error from Nielsen themselves. Gains and losses of a few thousand don’t really mean anything.


----------



## IronMan8

Super high 90% retention rate from start to finish 

Raw's was only 70% 64% 

Dynamite > Raw


----------



## bdon

IronMan8 said:


> Super high 90% retention rate from start to finish
> 
> Raw's was only 70%
> 
> Dynamite > Raw


Helps to not have Bryan on tv losing 200k viewers at jumpstreet.


----------



## DRose1994

Chan Hung said:


> Holy shit, 4 weeks straight and not even 900 thousand. All due to failure of booking, certain people on the shows that nobody wants to see, Bucks are not moving the needle, if anything drawing it back...and Punk was a draw. Not looking good. U read also in person shows are struggling with attendance.


they have enough talent to do a million consistently. But guys no one wants to see gets tv time (best friends, dark order, Yuta, Garcia) Guys people want to see get little to not tv time (Hobbs, FTR, Starks until recently). Guys that should be doing major angles and segments and matches are used in an uninteresting manner (Daniel Bryan).


----------



## DammitChrist

DRose1994 said:


> they have enough talent to do a million consistently. But guys no one wants to see gets tv time (best friends, dark order, Yuta, Garcia) Guys people want to see get little to not tv time (Hobbs, FTR, Starks until recently). Guys that should be doing major angles and segments and matches are used in an uninteresting manner (Daniel Bryan).


Sure, 'nobody' wants to see great workers like Wheeler Yuta + Daniel Garcia when they're recently maintained the viewership in their most recent TV matches, and when they've clearly connected with AEW crowds around the country over the past several months 

They were part of one of the most watched quarterly matches/segments too for this week.

Edit:

Plus, at no point has Powerhouse Hobbs ever been consistently more over than Wheeler Yuta or Daniel Garcia. His crowd reactions are lukewarm to both those guys in comparison. I don't get why he's this highly regarded.


----------



## VamosRamos




----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

IronMan8 said:


> Super high 90% retention rate from start to finish
> 
> Raw's was only 70% 64%
> 
> Dynamite > Raw


That's what happens when you only have to retain 840K. YIKES.


----------



## DRose1994

DammitChrist said:


> Sure, 'nobody' wants to see great workers like Wheeler Yuta + Daniel Garcia when they're recently maintained the viewership in their most recent TV matches, and when they've clearly connected with AEW crowds around the country over the past several months
> 
> They were part of one of the most watched quarterly matches/segments too for this week.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Plus, at no point has Powerhouse Hobbs ever been consistently more over than Wheeler Yuta or Daniel Garcia. His crowd reactions are lukewarm to both those guys in comparison. I don't get why he's this highly regarded.


lol yes, no one wants to see bland, vapid, 5’8 160lb “great workers” like Yuta or Garcia. They are miserably uninteresting. Imagine Hobbs got the attention and tv time and effort that either of these guys got in the past 6 months? You’d have a budding star comparable to Wardlow (ahh, another guy they’ve bungled).

Yuta or Garcia aren’t over. They’ve been attached at the hip to Jericho and the JAS and to Moxley/Bryan and the BCC, respectively, but they are not over. No one cares for either of those guys.


----------



## FrankieDs316

DammitChrist said:


> Smackdown's recent number is 1000x worse.


LOL no son


----------



## IronMan8

Showstopper said:


> That's what happens when you only have to retain 840K. YIKES.


The inevitable is upon us... are you part of the 36% of Raw viewers who tapped out this week?

A better product is waiting for you


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

IronMan8 said:


> The inevitable is upon us... are you part of the 36% of Raw viewers who tapped out this week?
> 
> A better product is waiting for you


Sorry, can't agree that IMPACT Wrestling is better..


----------



## DammitChrist

DRose1994 said:


> lol yes, no one wants to see bland, vapid, 5’8 160lb “great workers” like Yuta or Garcia. They are miserably uninteresting. Imagine Hobbs got the attention and tv time and effort that either of these guys got in the past 6 months? You’d have a budding star comparable to Wardlow (ahh, another guy they’ve bungled).


Alright, if Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia are 'miserably uninteresting' (which is obviously false because the AEW crowds are invested in these younger talents), then that doesn't bode well for Powerhouse Hobbs at all here since their crowd reactions dwarf 98% of his crowd responses.

After all, more fans would rather react to those _insignificant _workrate guys than that powerhouse dude 



> Yuta or Garcia aren’t over.
> 
> They’ve been attached at the hip to Jericho and the JAS and to Moxley/Bryan and the BCC, respectively, but they are not over.


Oh, of course; it's not like we have 8+ months of evidence where Wheeler Yuta was consistently over to the point where crowds regularly chanted his name (even as recently as his last few tag matches on TV).

I recall a tag contest earlier in October where his name was chanted over more established guys like Chris Jericho and Claudio Castagnoli.

Wheeler Yuta was red hot with crowds from the time where he bled against Jon Moxley back in April up until the point where he first challenged the hottest top guy of the company in MJF earlier this September.

Hell, Yuta was gone for a few weeks from late May through early June (where he missed Double or Nothing due to the NJPW Best of the Super Junior tournament), and yet he was one of the most over men in that Battle Royal where the winner had to face Jon Moxley in that main event.

Daniel Garcia regularly gets "you're a wrestler" chants ever since he teased his betrayal to JAS, and seemingly sided with Bryan Danielson. He's been fairly hot with AEW crowds for months now because of that storyline revolving around his uncertain allegiance to JAS or Bryan.

Yea, claiming that neither Yuta and Garcia are/were _never_ over is a huge lie. You can keep making that misleading argument, but you'd still be wrong 



> No one cares for either of those guys.


Various wrestling crowds around the country over the last 8+ months who frequently react to both those men, and who cheer for them says otherwise. You don't speak for the rest of the AEW audience who clearly do care about Yuta and Garcia


----------



## Dr. Middy

RapShepard said:


> The thing is it's become a "Boy who cried wolf" type situation when Dynamite ratings don't go up. Because for whatever reason, it's pretty much never chalked up to bad string of shows. It's always
> 
> Well this sport, this game show, politics, this holiday, hey TV in general
> 
> So when actually technical difficulties arise it's eyeroll worthy. It's not that these things aren't happening, but when everytime there's a reasoning beyond maybe the show isn't attracting new viewers it becomes pathetic.


Yeah I get that. I usually don't even factor in most things anymore, the rating is what it is, unless you get some otherworldly event, like the whole January 6th riot or something. 

I only actually brought up this thing because for once it actually is legitimately something that prevented people from watching at all, not because they were choosing to watch some other programming. 

But yeah, I get it.


----------



## VamosRamos

IT'S NOT OVER, THE STREAK LIVES


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

This thread is feeling more like Twitter every day. Take that however you want to take it.


----------



## CovidFan

What was up with the lead in? 883k and the second quarter gained viewers for probably the first time ever on TBS. Weird shit.

Women losing >100k


----------



## fabi1982

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, I'll remember this post for early 2023 when they inevitably surpass 900+ K viewers by reaching the 1+ million mark.
> 
> We get to be vindicated by then since you're clearly wrong.


Thats also a way to write the truth, everytime moving one of the goal posts. Typical DC, I like your enthusiasm.

And I will applaud you for your post in 2024 when they again reach 900k+ and we celebrate this as a bug success


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> That women's quarter hour is a problem nearly every week.
> 
> View attachment 141393


well geez, starks and mjf really did something there


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RLT1981 said:


> its draws well in WWE its just Tony can't book the women div(or anything for that matter).


hello user, did you lose access to an older account?


----------



## VamosRamos




----------



## LifeInCattleClass

VamosRamos said:


> View attachment 141423


welcome user, we hope your time on your new account is fun and fruitful


----------



## VamosRamos

LifeInCattleClass said:


> welcome user, we hope your time on your new account is fun and fruitful


----------



## Top bins

DRose1994 said:


> they have enough talent to do a million consistently. But guys no one wants to see gets tv time (best friends, dark order, Yuta, Garcia) Guys people want to see get little to not tv time (Hobbs, FTR, Starks until recently). Guys that should be doing major angles and segments and matches are used in an uninteresting manner (Daniel Bryan).


Couldn't agree more with that post. DC eye rolling because my guy knows the truth 🤣


----------



## Top bins

DammitChrist said:


> Alright, if Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia are 'miserably uninteresting' (which is obviously false because the AEW crowds are invested in these younger talents), then that doesn't bode well for Powerhouse Hobbs at all here since their crowd reactions dwarf 98% of his crowd responses.
> 
> After all, more fans would rather react to those _insignificant _workrate guys than that powerhouse dude
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, of course; it's not like we have 8+ months of evidence where Wheeler Yuta was consistently over to the point where crowds regularly chanted his name (even as recently as his last few tag matches on TV).
> 
> I recall a tag contest earlier in October where his name was chanted over more established guys like Chris Jericho and Claudio Castagnoli.
> 
> Wheeler Yuta was red hot with crowds from the time where he bled against Jon Moxley back in April up until the point where he first challenged the hottest top guy of the company in MJF earlier this September.
> 
> Hell, Yuta was gone for a few weeks from late May through early June (where he missed Double or Nothing due to the NJPW Best of the Super Junior tournament), and yet he was one of the most over men in that Battle Royal where the winner had to face Jon Moxley in that main event.
> 
> Daniel Garcia regularly gets "you're a wrestler" chants ever since he teased his betrayal to JAS, and seemingly sided with Bryan Danielson. He's been fairly hot with AEW crowds for months now because of that storyline revolving around his uncertain allegiance to JAS or Bryan.
> 
> Yea, claiming that neither Yuta and Garcia are/were _never_ over is a huge lie. You can keep making that misleading argument, but you'd still be wrong
> 
> 
> 
> Various wrestling crowds around the country over the last 8+ months who frequently react to both those men, and who cheer for them says otherwise. You don't speak for the rest of the AEW audience who clearly do care about Yuta and Garcia


If Yuta and Garcia left tomorrow would AEW be shaken to its core? 

They are less over than over now. Because the feud has gone on too long. And because they have barely been featured. 

You need to get both of those guys on ROH permanently. They are not AEW talents. There's a lot both need to work on. 

And your powerhouse Hobbs comment if he jobs to James Cipperley twice and loses every meaningful match he is in, then the crowd will not react to him. 

Tony is a awful booker. The ratings tells you that 200 thousand viewers have lost interest the last 2 months. And I think they get back to 600 thousand viewers. 

Tony needs to swallow his pride and step aside for someone who has experience. He's had 3 years and viewership wise there is no buzz about the product.


----------



## DammitChrist

Top bins said:


> Couldn't agree more with that post. DC eye rolling because my guy knows the truth 🤣


There was absolutely no truth in his response, and I'll 100% pass on your suggestion/idea for AEW's product too (which is already pretty good).

The likes of Wheeler Yuta + Daniel Garcia belong on AEW (since they're clearly over with the audience), and Tony Khan shouldn't make any major changes that were suggested here


----------



## kingfunkel

The problem with women's wrestling is: everyone who cares about it, is already watching the show. Those that don't care for it, turn it off. It doesn't draw new viewers, all it does is drive off existing viewers.

Its in the same spot every single week... Every single week it loses 10s of 1000s. It needs fixing. Maybe keep rampage exclusively for the women, might draw in those that like women wrestling and won't tank the ratings of the main show.


----------



## Top bins

DammitChrist said:


> There was absolutely no truth in his response, and I'll 100% pass on your suggestion/idea for AEW's product too (which is already pretty good).
> 
> The likes of Wheeler Yuta + Daniel Garcia belong on AEW (since they're clearly over with the audience), and Tony Khan shouldn't make any major changes that were suggested here


😂🤣😂 Of course there is. Yuta, Garcia and Cipperley look like they would work at the drive thru at burger king. 

Whereas Powerhouse Hobbs looks like a guy who could kick your ass in an alley. 

Your passing on it because you haven't got any comeback 😂 Tony is doing a shit job and that's being reflected in the ratings. 

They were averaging 1 million 2 months ago. So riddle me that?


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

DammitChrist said:


> Smackdown lost 1+ million viewers this past Friday (which is the 2nd time that's occurred within the past months).
> 
> I suppose WWE has a lot of problems then since a huge wrestling company with 29+ years of being on TV shouldn't ever sink below 1 million viewers. Perhaps Triple H _should_ do better with the stale main event scene (especially on Smackdown) then.
> 
> Raw just had the lowest viewership for their 3rd hour in recent memory. Perhaps HHH _should_ hire writers that 'know' what they're doing, and push more workrate women since the whole decision has revolved around 1 overpushed woman.
> 
> NXT just fell into the 530+ K mark just last night. Maybe Shawn Michaels (or even Triple H) _should_ move on from both of their world champions, and push other smaller/popular names instead of sacrificing them to the same 2 acts.
> 
> Yea, I doubt you have the same consistency for WWE whenever any of their shows see a dip in viewership. AEW shouldn't make any major changes to their good product atm, and hopefully your advice gets no-sold by Tony Khan


The casual way you forgot to mention SD dropped so much in ratings was because they were on FS1 instead of Fox is pretty telling. Keep pushing your narratives tho.


----------



## validreasoning

DammitChrist said:


> Smackdown's recent number is 1000x worse.


SD aired on a channel that averaged 294,000 viewers in prime time in 2021 so it beat the prime time average of the channel by over 300%..
Most-Watched Television Networks: Ranking 2021’s Winners and Losers


----------



## Jones1

Is anyone surprised the ratings are down? The show is dreadful and full of wrestlers who won't ever appeal to people outside of the current small AEW fan base. I bet loads of this forum can't even be bothered to watch a full episode (myself included). It's dreadful TV run by someone who doesn't seem to care if it attracts a larger audience.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jones1 said:


> Is anyone surprised the ratings are down? The show is dreadful and full of wrestlers who won't ever appeal to people outside of the current small AEW fan base. I bet loads of this forum can't even be bothered to watch a full episode (myself included). It's dreadful TV run by someone who doesn't seem to care if it attracts a larger audience.


Hello {insert name}, welcome to {insert subforum}

Enjoy your time in our community friend

Sincerely {managementbot}


----------



## DammitChrist

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> The casual way you forgot to mention SD dropped so much in ratings was because they were on FS1 instead of Fox is pretty telling. Keep pushing your narratives tho.


Gee, that sounds like an excuse to me, 'm8' (especially for the biggest wrestling promotion in the world).

If the show was actually good, then more people would've watched Smackdown 

At least that's what we've been told.

I guarantee that your tune would predictably change if that happened to AEW though.


----------



## NathanMayberry

DammitChrist said:


> Gee, that sounds like an excuse to me, 'm8' (especially for the biggest wrestling promotion in the world).
> 
> If the show was actually good, then more people would've watched Smackdown
> 
> At least that's what we've been told.
> 
> I guarantee that your tune would predictably change if that happened to AEW though.


So in 12 hours when Smackdown airs and gets its regular 2 million+ viewers it would be due to them having a fantastic show and the reason Rampage won't do the same is cuz it is trash?


----------



## Itiswhatitis

Lmao at some defending the dreadful ratings and always moving the goal post.🤣

Khans booker of the year philosophy drove potential ticket sales , attendance and ratings down an AEW toilet due to such shitty shows, a bunch of unknown geeks from other places and booking that makes Russo look like a king


----------



## VamosRamos

Good numbers considering everybody was busy decorating for Christmas


----------



## 3venflow

Any chance the mods can do something about the meme shitposter? It makes it hard to find adult conversation in this thread.

Here's some ticket info from WrestleTix. I'll post some advances in the near future.

Next week's show:

*AEW Dynamite/Rampage: Winter is Coming
December 14, 2022 6:00 PM
Curtis Culwell Center, Garland, TX*

Available Tickets => 1,040
Current Setup/Capacity => 5,325
Tickets Distributed => 4,285

This week's:

*AEW Presents Dynamite-Rampage
Wed • Dec 07 • 6:00 PM
H-E-B Center at Cedar Park, Cedar Park, TX*

Tickets Distributed => 3,379


----------



## VamosRamos

3venflow said:


> Any chance the mods can do something about the meme shitposter? It makes it hard to find adult conversation in this thread.


I speak facts only


----------



## Saintpat

Tony needs to stop thinking about the cheap pop and quick payoff.

Expand the trios to a best-of-51 series.


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> So in 12 hours when Smackdown airs and gets its regular 2 million+ viewers it would be due to them having a fantastic show and the reason Rampage won't do the same is cuz it is trash?


You clearly missed the whole point of my previous post. What I said was pretty much a regurgitation of your flawed logic/posts about AEW over the past year.

At *no* point did I ever imply that Rampage was 'trash' (which is highly inaccurate since it's generally a good wrestling show).


----------



## DammitChrist

Itiswhatitis said:


> Lmao at some defending the dreadful ratings and always moving the goal post.🤣
> 
> Khans booker of the year philosophy drove potential ticket sales , attendance and ratings down an AEW toilet due to such shitty shows, a bunch of unknown geeks from other places and booking that makes Russo look like a king


Tony Khan IS the booker of the year who's spearheading them to reasonably solid/decent ratings (due to their consistently good wrestling shows), and he should continue giving spotlight to international talents who aren't geeks at all 

We aren't moving the goal posts on this end though


----------



## DUD

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600927886562668544
Sorry if this has already been posted but Dave's come riding in on his stallion with his sword to defend the drop in raitings.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DUD said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600927886562668544
> Sorry if this has already been posted but Dave's come riding in on his stallion with his sword to defend the drop in raitings.


he was pretty harsh on prior low ratings - why was that ok, but now that there is a valid reason he is defender number 1 again?


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601264853594750978


----------



## theshape31

DUD said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600927886562668544
> Sorry if this has already been posted but Dave's come riding in on his stallion with his sword to defend the drop in raitings.


Yes it was, and Meltzer tweeted that prior to the ratings being announced. He’s simply stating facts here, and you’re spinning it into a narrative that doesn’t exist.



Spoiler



I fucking hate this thread.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

i think there is an important fact people are always missing when discussing AEW in general on TBS / TNT

they are one of the few programs - if not the only - earning the Network revenue outside of Ad Revenue

they do 4 PPVs a year, each one at around 5m to 10m in PPV revenue so far in 2022. In fact, they had 5 this year with Forbidden door thrown in. And then there is the smaller ROH ones too - so maybe a total of 30m in PPV revenue

and the Network takes half of this - so, AEW egenerates TNT / TBS a nice little sum of 10m - 15m + a year

add that to them being a pretty cheap consistent top 5 performer and you can see why they'll be A-ok regeardless of any restructure

its also why the PPV structure will not go away any time soon


----------



## DUD

LifeInCattleClass said:


> he was pretty harsh on prior low ratings - why was that ok, but now that there is a valid reason he is defender number 1 again?


I said it for the laughing emoji's.... that never arrived ☹.

SCJerk material doesn't suit me.


----------



## validreasoning

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think there is an important fact people are always missing when discussing AEW in general on TBS / TNT
> 
> they are one of the few programs - if not the only - earning the Network revenue outside of Ad Revenue
> 
> they do 4 PPVs a year, each one at around 5m to 10m in PPV revenue so far in 2022. In fact, they had 5 this year with Forbidden door thrown in. And then there is the smaller ROH ones too - so maybe a total of 30m in PPV revenue
> 
> and the Network takes half of this - so, AEW egenerates TNT / TBS a nice little sum of 10m - 15m + a year
> 
> add that to them being a pretty cheap consistent top 5 performer and you can see why they'll be A-ok regeardless of any restructure
> 
> its also why the PPV structure will not go away any time soon


What?

Why would Turner take ppv revenue?

You are confusing it with the cable companies who actually run ppv ie comcast, direct TV, cox, xfinity etc. They take 50% share of ppv but it's split between each accordingly


----------



## Mister Sinister

I was wrong. Last week was the bump in interest of viewers tuning in to see if AEW was going to make a creative change.
That may mean the trend will continue downward next week. They might break the glass floor and sink below 800k with another trio title ratings massacre on the card.

One thing has been made clear in the last couple of months. The trios title need to be thrown into the ocean with the Atlantic belt.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DUD said:


> I said it for the laughing emoji's.... that never arrived ☹.
> 
> SCJerk material doesn't suit me.


sorry Dud, you’ll always make me smile inside


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

validreasoning said:


> What?
> 
> Why would Turner take ppv revenue?
> 
> You are confusing it with the cable companies who actually run ppv ie comcast, direct TV, cox, xfinity etc. They take 50% share of ppv but it's split between each accordingly


isn’t turner running the ppvs? Under the same company umbrella?


----------



## Itiswhatitis

This just shows you in this example, money can't get u viewership nor common sense booking.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Itiswhatitis said:


> This just shows you in this example, money can't get u viewership nor common sense booking.




If money is well-utilized, it certainly can. Khan too busy solo booking and having "dream matches" though.


----------



## Fearless Viper

I'm starting to think that DC is not just a troll. He's Tony Khan's WF account for sure!


----------



## Jones1

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Hello {insert name}, welcome to {insert subforum}
> 
> Enjoy your time in our community friend
> 
> Sincerely {managementbot}


What a silly post. I've been here a while a long time. Do you have anything useful to add or is childish posts the limit of your contribution?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jones1 said:


> What a silly post. I've been here a while a long time. Do you have anything useful to add or is childish posts the limit of your contribution?


yes


----------



## 3venflow

Revolution pre-sale/day one sales:

*AEW Revolution
Sun • Mar 05, 2023 • 4:00 PM
Chase Center, SAN FRANCISCO, CA*

Available Tickets => 2,255
Current Setup/Capacity => 7,680
Tickets Distributed => 5,425

Here's how AEW makes its million dollar gates so often now:


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

@One Shed

*For 2 years, we were told the million viewer mark was an arbitrary number created by the critics as an excuse to shit on AEW. Here is Tony Khan HIMSELF at the 13:20 mark of this video saying AND I QUOTE:*

"Hurricane Ian reared its head, but we still came damn close to hitting that million number we go for every week."






*By the owner's own admission, AEW is catastrophically failing. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.*


----------



## bdon

5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ said:


> @One Shed
> 
> *For 2 years, we were told the million viewer mark was an arbitrary number created by the critics as an excuse to shit on AEW. Here is Tony Khan HIMSELF at the 13:20 mark of this video saying AND I QUOTE:*
> 
> "Hurricane Ian reared its head, but we still came damn close to hitting that million number we go for every week."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *By the owner's own admission, AEW is catastrophically failing. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.*


Jesus Christ your reading comprehension sucks.

A goal does not have to be what you EXPECT. It is something you strive for and chase. Of course Tony’s GOAL is to be a weekly million viewer television show. SmackDown’s GOAL is to be 3m viewers weekly, is it a failure?


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage seems to have recovered from last week's record low. The overnights were 421,000 viewers and 138,000 in the 18-49 (not sure yet what that converts to on the Nielsen charts but my guess is better than last week's scary 0.08). The final number is usually higher than the fast/overnights and will be out on Monday.


----------



## CovidFan

3venflow said:


> Rampage seems to have recovered from last week's record low. The overnights were 421,000 viewers and 138,000 in the 18-49 (not sure yet what that converts to on the Nielsen charts but my guess is better than last week's scary 0.08). The final number is usually higher than the fast/overnights and will be out on Monday.


I'm shocked!! 


CovidFan said:


> Willing to bet that without another huge sporting event on this Friday that it performs a bit better and more in line with the past few months.


----------



## IronMan8

I wonder how different a wrestling show would look if TV ratings and other data didn't exist for a year or two and they had to go purely by feel.

There'd be pros and cons - any predictions on how it might go?


----------



## Chan Hung

Regarding Rampage and its miserable ratings, i like the idea of having a specific main 12-14 people weekly on the show that are the focus of it and get over explicitly on that program. Instead of just throwing out cold matches on Rampage and or having too many things happening, maybe that will be better in the long run?


----------



## Jones1

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yes


You're a silly person. Maybe one day you'll have your own company to defend instead of spending your spare time defending a company you don't have anything to do with.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jones1 said:


> You're a silly person. Maybe one day you'll have your own company to defend instead of spending your spare time defending a company you don't have anything to do with.


yes


----------



## hybrid92_

rampage should just be cancelled because no one watches it. the ratings for that show are terrible. tony need to sack half the roster and focus everything on dynamite. he must be bleeding money having to run 2 shows and having a bloated roster.


----------



## Serious_frusting

Well 2 good shows ain't going to change a downward trend that they been on for months. Stick to what they doing and hopefully the fans will come back.
Also AEW needs Punk back


----------



## BettsyUK

Speaking as a fan whom shall be going to the UK show vip, the ratings have clearly fallen off a cliff.

After 3 years to still be hitting similar ratings to the previous years isn't necessarily bad, but shows a stalling growth in the product (domestically) which basically means there's only one way ratings will go...(down) if TK doesn't mix it up to stop the rot.

Push the political correctness narrative with the acclaimed (gets massive crowd reaction) or do something controversial, make matches more unpredictable I mean we all know who's going to win if Wardlow is against QT Marshall it's so easily predictable. Also have continued storytelling throughout shows with the bigger/ more over characters to at the very least retain viewership not decrease.

Personally I'd tell the likes of The Rock, Undertaker and Cena to name their price. Cena v Acclaimed in a rap battle would probably smash aews peak rating for instance.

Imagine if Taker finally had that stare down with Sting? What a moment that could be.

Will never happen but TK should be pushing all avenues. Heck, splash out on some a lister if needs be.


----------



## bdon

BettsyUK said:


> Speaking as a fan whom shall be going to the UK show vip, the ratings have clearly fallen off a cliff.
> 
> After 3 years to still be hitting similar ratings to the previous years isn't necessarily bad, but shows a stalling growth in the product (domestically) which basically means there's only one way ratings will go...(down) if TK doesn't mix it up to stop the rot.
> 
> Push the political correctness narrative with the acclaimed (gets massive crowd reaction) or do something controversial, make matches more unpredictable I mean we all know who's going to win if Wardlow is against QT Marshall it's so easily predictable. Also have continued storytelling throughout shows with the bigger/ more over characters to at the very least retain viewership not decrease.
> 
> Personally I'd tell the likes of The Rock, Undertaker and Cena to name their price. Cena v Acclaimed in a rap battle would probably smash aews peak rating for instance.
> 
> Imagine if Taker finally had that stare down with Sting? What a moment that could be.
> 
> Will never happen but TK should be pushing all avenues. Heck, splash out on some a lister if needs be.


TK isn’t going to grow the ratings no matter what. He is not very good creatively. Simple as that.
He better hope The Elite can pull his sorry ass out of a pickle again.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602408974837551104


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Smackdown’s rating is quite Ucey.


----------



## BettsyUK

bdon said:


> TK isn’t going to grow the ratings no matter what. He is not very good creatively. Simple as that.
> He better hope The Elite can pull his sorry ass out of a pickle again.


Agreed,

he really should make some of the bigger stars a novelty act aswell, instead of having Bryan, Jericho (previously Punk) etc wrestling every week. Make their matches feel must watch, bit like when Sting has a match it's must watch for me. Its what made me buy full gear tbh.

I think Khan will get it eventually, but I fear it'll be too late by then.


----------



## Saintpat

BettsyUK said:


> Agreed,
> 
> he really should make some of the bigger stars a novelty act aswell, instead of having Bryan, Jericho (previously Punk) etc wrestling every week. Make their matches feel must watch, bit like when Sting has a match it's must watch for me. Its what made me buy full gear tbh.
> 
> I think Khan will get it eventually, but I fear it'll be too late by then.


I mean he just signed AR Fox. What do people want?


----------



## bdon

Saintpat said:


> I mean he just signed AR Fox. What do people want?


Personally?

Punk’s head on a platter!!!

sorry sorry lol


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Nice rebound for Rampage but it's silly to live or die on the weekly ratings. Would like to see them stabilize and gradually increase but December might not be the best month for that.


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage rose from #60 on cable with its record low the other week to #20 on Friday. So the stronger card did have some effect but I feel like it'll take a lot of work and consistently interesting cards like Friday's for any longer term gains. 0.11 to 0.14 is the new normal compared to 0.18 to 0.25 at the start of the year. In terms of total viewers, Friday's was their best since 10/21 but it's all quite negligible.

Rampage is averaging a 0.157 demo and 461,000 viewers in 2022.


----------



## The real Axel

Now that DubbaloChrist has been exiled which brave dubster will be leading the defence of Dynamite's dreadful rating later this week? 

I'm looking at you @LifeInTonysAss 👀


----------



## CM Buck

The real Axel said:


> Now that DubbaloChrist has been exiled which brave dubster will be leading the defence of Dynamite's dreadful rating later this week?
> 
> I'm looking at you @LifeInTonysAss 👀


Play nice Curtis


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Saintpat said:


> I mean he just signed AR Fox. What do people want?




THE AR Fox? Shit, how did viewers miss this game changing announcement?





The real Axel said:


> Now that DubbaloChrist has been exiled which brave dubster will be leading the defence of Dynamite's dreadful rating later this week?
> 
> I'm looking at you @LifeInTonysAss 👀



Might be too for my 15+ years in the making heel turn on this forum [For conversation sake].


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The real Axel said:


> Now that DubbaloChrist has been exiled which brave dubster will be leading the defence of Dynamite's dreadful rating later this week?
> 
> I'm looking at you @LifeInTonysAss 👀


I believe I can comply  

ON ONE CONDITION! ............ you finally let us know the taste of Cornette's prostate 

(this was a fair game clapback FFTG bygones)


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I believe I can comply
> 
> ON ONE CONDITION! ............ you finally let us know the taste of Cornette's prostate
> 
> (this was a fair game clapback FFTG bygones)


They come at Cattle sideways..?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I believe I can comply
> 
> ON ONE CONDITION! ............ you finally let us know the taste of Cornette's prostate
> 
> (this was a fair game clapback FFTG bygones)



Speculation suggests it tastes like a combination of a McDonalds Quarter Pounder and a Wendy's Frosty.


----------



## bdon

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Speculation suggests it tastes like a combination of a McDonalds Quarter Pounder and a Wendy's Frosty.


I can’t see Wendy’s logo without picturing the Cult of Cornette face on it now.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

anyway, I am gonna give my best try to honour DC

'Rampage rating was great, we saw some real growth and I for one am happy we saw great wrestlers like Lee Moriarty and Trent Seven carrying the brand, both great wrestlers who the public love to see 

Fuck Roman Reigns'


----------



## Hotdiggity11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> anyway, I am gonna give my best try to honour DC
> 
> 'Rampage rating was great, we saw some real growth and I for one am happy we saw great wrestlers like Lee Moriarty and Trent Seven carrying the brand, both great wrestlers who the public love to see
> 
> Fuck Roman Reigns'




AEW's new streaming service with a low price of $9.99 is great value. Not only do you get all the ROH shows from the past, you get weekly shows with stars in the making like Wheeler Yuta, Athena, and The Embassy as well as legends like Claudio and Dalton Castle.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ze Germans lieben AEW


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602757304713109504
Surely brothers @fabi1982 and @JeSeGaN are extra happy they can now watch AEDub with friends and family on free tv?

jokes aside - is this a big move Fabi? JeS?

ps) multi-year bodes well, as next year is USA renewal, so that is most certainly happening now


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

The real Axel said:


> Now that DubbaloChrist has been exiled which brave dubster will be leading the defence of Dynamite's dreadful rating later this week?
> 
> I'm looking at you @LifeInTonysAss 👀


 DC got banned? I loved that guy. He was totally annoying but also hilarious.


----------



## Geeee

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ze Germans lieben AEW
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602757304713109504
> Surely brothers @fabi1982 and @JeSeGaN are extra happy they can now watch AEDub with friends and family on free tv?
> 
> jokes aside - is this a big move Fabi? JeS?
> 
> ps) multi-year bodes well, as next year is USA renewal, so that is most certainly happening now


David Hasselhoff to make an appearance in AEW?


----------



## JeSeGaN

I had genuinely no idea AEW was this popular in Germany.

I don't watch TV, so I dunno if it's on a prominent channel or not.


----------



## Blonde

LifeInCattleClass said:


> anyway, I am gonna give my best try to honour DC
> 
> 'Rampage rating was great, we saw some real growth and I for one am happy we saw great wrestlers like Lee Moriarty and Trent Seven carrying the brand, both great wrestlers who the public love to see
> 
> Fuck Roman Reigns'


So close.

It’s “Fuck the current Undisputed WWE Universal Champion.”

Also throw in “It was a great show that deserved a higher rating but people have started to celebrate Christmas already. It will inevitably rebound to 1 million in January 👍”

#JusticeForDC


----------



## Shaz Cena

DC fans will be on ratings thread celebrating the great man year after year. The day of his banning will be remembered in the AEW ratings thread for years to come. In the final year of AEW which will be five years from now, WF's Administrators will allow these fans to put this great legend to rest along with there beloved company. 

This is your news report from Shaz Cena You can't see me!.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ze Germans lieben AEW
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602757304713109504
> Surely brothers @fabi1982 and @JeSeGaN are extra happy they can now watch AEDub with friends and family on free tv?
> 
> jokes aside - is this a big move Fabi? JeS?
> 
> ps) multi-year bodes well, as next year is USA renewal, so that is most certainly happening now


Honestly, I guess DMAX is only watched by fat single neckbeards, so probably the best choice for getting some viewers. Usually you see "big trucks through the desert" or "building a big bridge" and stuff like that on DMAX. I am not so sure that this is "the good move" they are talking about, moving from paid tv to free tv. I dont even know where DMAX is in the channel list.

But I read an article in the morning from the AEW-DC-esque Sport1 kissing TKs ass as usual  So at least the only magazine writing about it is saying it is a good deal.


----------



## IronMan8

I've completed a comprehensive, qualitative analysis of AEW Dynamite. The results are in:

This show is far too good to stay below a million long-term 👍


----------



## bdon

IronMan8 said:


> I've completed a comprehensive, qualitative analysis of AEW Dynamite. The results are in:
> 
> This show is far too good to stay below a million long-term 👍


I genuinely think Tony has opened up and is letting someone else help with the shows. That’s three weeks in a row that the shows felt really well pieced together. And FINALLY they went back to the formula that works: start with the hot, fast-paced action and end with the important, dramatic stuff. This is simple TV stuff.

Bischoff is in someone’s ear. Or the Elite doing undercard stuff gives them time to help Tony more with putting the shows together. Or maybe Jeff Jarrett knows tv more than I ever realized. (I didn’t watch TNA, just always assumed it was shitty lol)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I genuinely think Tony has opened up and is letting someone else help with the shows. That’s three weeks in a row that the shows felt really well pieced together. And FINALLY they went back to the formula that works: start with the hot, fast-paced action and end with the important, dramatic stuff. This is simple TV stuff.
> 
> Bischoff is in someone’s ear. Or the Elite doing undercard stuff gives them time to help Tony more with putting the shows together. Or maybe Jeff Jarrett knows tv more than I ever realized. (I didn’t watch TNA, just always assumed it was shitty lol)


or maybe a disruptive element which was soul crushing is gone?


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> or maybe a disruptive element which was soul crushing is gone?


I mean, that could be it, but goddamn, that would suggest Tony was incapable of running his show for a full year after catching a case of the googley-eyes while staring at Punk.

Not exactly a good look.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I mean, that could be it, but goddamn, that would suggest Tony was incapable of running his show for a full year after catching a case of the googley-eyes while staring at Punk.
> 
> Not exactly a good look.


if a major star comes in, and a show is built around him

its quite natural for him to be involved at the start, middle and end

everybody and their uncle also says TK should listen to people with experience - which he likely did as he is a fan of the dude

yet - everytime its happened, the show became a shitshow

it has to be TK x Elite to work and feel like AEW


----------



## 3venflow

Final counts.

*AEW Winter is Coming
Wednesday, December 14, 2022
Curtis Culwell Center, Garland, TX*

Tickets Distributed => 4,978

*AEW: Ring of Honor Presents Final Battle
SAT DEC 10, 2022 – 2:00 PM
College Park Center, Arlington TX*

Tickets Distributed => 2,539

(Riccaboni said the biggest gate in ROH history. Tickets weren't cheap for the most part)


Advances for upcoming shows (total sold/current capacity) per WrestleTix. Waiting for an update on next week's as there hasn't been one since 12/1 when 3,612 tickets had been sold.

*2022*

12/28: 3,773/4,837

*2023*

1/4/23: 7,281/9,685
1/6/23: 3,661/4,969 (Rampage/Battle of the Belts V)
1/11/23: 6,412/8,941
1/18/23: 3,250/4,884
1/25/23: 3,582/4,855
2/1/23: 1,935/6,375
2/8/23: 2,413/3,201
2/22/23: 4,745/6,217
3/1/23: 2,593/5,199
3/5/23: 5,743/7,680 (Revolution PPV)

In general, advances are looking better than in recent history. The 2/1 show is off to a slow start but most of them are looking healthy. Exploring new markets will obviously play a big role in this and I think having the Elite back helps as Omega has often put butts in seats. Jeff Jarrett promised some 'cool things' are coming in terms of live events in Q1 2023.


----------



## Not Lying

LifeInCattleClass said:


> if a major star comes in, and a show is built around him
> 
> its quite natural for him to be involved at the start, middle and end
> 
> everybody and their uncle also says TK should listen to people with experience - which he likely did as he is a fan of the dude
> 
> yet - everytime its happened, the show became a shitshow
> 
> it has to be TK x Elite to work and feel like AEW



When did Punk ever do this? Can we stop rewriting history? He got his 15min allocated for his quarter and that’s it. 95% of the time he didn’t make a second appearance. 

Had they dont that ratings would have been higher 😊


----------



## Aedubya

Guess 0.91


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Not Lying said:


> When did Punk ever do this? Can we stop rewriting history? He got his 15min allocated for his quarter and that’s it. 95% of the time he didn’t make a second appearance.
> 
> Had they dont that ratings would have been higher 😊


and he would have had things to say likely about the segments of young guys and guys who were slated to face him down the line and build and and and

punk had a lot of sway

and are we pretending that scrum was out the blue? He likely said that shit behind closed doors 50 times to various people

it will affect the product if a well regarded star does that

is my assumption - not facts, just spitballing


----------



## bdon

Not Lying said:


> When did Punk ever do this? Can we stop rewriting history? He got his 15min allocated for his quarter and that’s it. 95% of the time he didn’t make a second appearance.
> 
> Had they dont that ratings would have been higher 😊


Why wasn’t Punk the biggest draw in AEW’s most viewed episodes then..?


----------



## One Shed

Where was this show that was built around CM Punk for a year so I can check it out?!?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

One Shed said:


> Where was this show that was built around CM Punk for a year so I can check it out?!?


WWECW


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> Where was this show that was built around CM Punk for a year so I can check it out?!?


If you think the show’s entire culture wasn’t painted in CM Punk’s light, then I don’t know what else to tell you.

What I do know is that Punk wasn’t in the top segments of AEW’s most watched shows.

…why?


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> WWECW


All I remember about WWECW after One Night Stand 2006 is pirates, zombies, and other things Sci-Fi Channel wanted on there and then Kurt Angle doing what he could before it fell apart. I gave up long before that.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> If you think the show’s entire culture wasn’t painted in CM Punk’s light, then I don’t know what else to tell you.
> 
> What I do know is that Punk wasn’t in the top segments of AEW’s most watched shows.
> 
> …why?


Why? Because the show was not built around him as was suggested. He had his segment then disappeared most weeks to make way for the next thing.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Dubbalos no doubt holding vigils and praying this show got a million plus.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> Why? Because the show was not built around him as was suggested. He had his segment then disappeared most weeks to make way for the next thing.


But…someone had to be the top segment on the top rated shows ever, and only Jericho was ever used in multiple segments. Hmm…


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Probably slightly below 900K is my guess.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 950,000
18-49: 0.33

(via PWTorch)

*Prevous editions*

Winter is Coming 2020 (Mox vs. Omega, Sting debut): 913,000 / 0.42
Winter is Coming 2021 (Hangman vs. Danielson): 948,000 / 0.31

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

12/7: 840,000 / 0.29
11/30: 870,000 / 0.26
11/23: 880,000 / 0.32
11/16: 818,000 / 0.28
11/9: 930,000 / 0.32
11/2: 911,000 / 0.29
10/26: 997,000 / 0.31
10/18: 752,000 / 0.26


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603497145914515484


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

That is an unqualified success for them. Great bump in both total viewers and the demo. This is actually a really nice rating for them.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 950,000
> 18-49: 0.33
> 
> (via PWTorch)
> 
> *Prevous editions*
> 
> Winter is Coming 2020 (Mox vs. Omega, Sting debut): 913,000 / 0.42
> Winter is Coming 2021 (Hangman vs. Danielson): 948,000 / 0.31
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 12/7: 840,000 / 0.29
> 11/30: 870,000 / 0.26
> 11/23: 880,000 / 0.32
> 11/16: 818,000 / 0.28
> 11/9: 930,000 / 0.32
> 11/2: 911,000 / 0.29
> 10/26: 997,000 / 0.31
> 10/18: 752,000 / 0.26


demo up, good


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 950,000
> 18-49: 0.33
> 
> (via PWTorch)
> 
> *Prevous editions*
> 
> Winter is Coming 2020 (Mox vs. Omega, Sting debut): 913,000 / 0.42
> Winter is Coming 2021 (Hangman vs. Danielson): 948,000 / 0.31
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 12/7: 840,000 / 0.29
> 11/30: 870,000 / 0.26
> 11/23: 880,000 / 0.32
> 11/16: 818,000 / 0.28
> 11/9: 930,000 / 0.32
> 11/2: 911,000 / 0.29
> 10/26: 997,000 / 0.31
> 10/18: 752,000 / 0.26


B-b-b-b-but….CM Cena said “U CAN’T SEE ME” and left this show! H-h-h-how did they go up in viewers from last year with all of that Bryan Danielson and CM Punk SUPERSTARdom fresh on the show!?


----------



## Lenny Leonard

No million?


----------



## RainmakerV2

I'm going to attribute this to Mario Andretti.


----------



## Chelsea

This show needed more Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta tbh 

Thankfully, if these two talented folks are getting more TV time next week, there's no way the viewership won't hit 1 million 

....

On a serious note, I am glad that the viewership is up from the previous Winter is Coming episodes.


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite finished #3 on cable behind the NBA games, although wasn't too far behind the later game.


----------



## One Shed

Tbh my only hope in life is for Action Andretti to form a trios team with Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia. Such talents need more time on every show honestly.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

One Shed said:


> Tbh my only hope in life is for Action Andretti to form a trios team with Wheeler Yuta and Daniel Garcia. Such talents need more time on every show honestly.


Is Arn gone? If so, Action Andretti is the real AA.


----------



## One Shed

SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE said:


> Is Arn gone? If so, Action Andretti is the real AA.


Who?!? When did he ever do a flip?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Chelsea said:


> This show needed more Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta tbh
> 
> Thankfully, if these two talented folks are getting more TV time next week, there's no way the viewership won't hit 1 million
> 
> ....
> 
> On a serious note, I am glad that the viewership is up from the previous Winter is Coming episodes.











I'm starting to think that Chrome wasn't your only alt, Mani. Admit it, DammitChroMani.


----------



## Prosper

Good to see them back up both in the demos and overalls.


----------



## RapShepard

Elite moved The number up


----------



## Geeee

We need some ACTION!


----------



## FrankieDs316

A bounce back but still a terrible rating for a very big hyped up show.


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## Geeee

women actually gained a little.

Two ad breaks in Q6 is ridiculous


----------



## BettsyUK

Well that's mad, a big world title main event was the lowest quarter, what the hell?!!!


----------



## Rock Crusher

BettsyUK said:


> Well that's mad, a big world title main event was the lowest quarter, what the hell?!!!


Vast majority of fans may have no interest in seeing a guy holding the belt who wrestles like he is in his second week of wrestling
camp. Very limited in the ring. Improved physique yet still far behind guys like PAC, Brian Cage, and Miro, all of whom 
are much more believable as dominant in ring competitors. Maybe fans are tiring of low blow finishing moves from a league which promised a more sports athletic based style of competition.


----------



## Itiswhatitis

Not bad but this wasn't a normal dynamite. Let's see how next few weeks are


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

bdon said:


> I genuinely think Tony has opened up and is letting someone else help with the shows. That’s three weeks in a row that the shows felt really well pieced together. And FINALLY they went back to the formula that works: start with the hot, fast-paced action and end with the important, dramatic stuff. This is simple TV stuff.
> 
> Bischoff is in someone’s ear. Or the Elite doing undercard stuff gives them time to help Tony more with putting the shows together. Or maybe Jeff Jarrett knows tv more than I ever realized. (I didn’t watch TNA, just always assumed it was shitty lol)


TNA's biggest issue was never about how to format a TV show. Most of the time their biggest issue was the inability to avoid being moronic. When TNA had good stuff it was often damn good but the bad stuff was also really bad.


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> View attachment 142446
> 
> 
> View attachment 142447


Well goddaamn!! WOULD YOU LOOK AT THAT!!! The opening segment DOESN’T always lose the Big Bang lead-in!? HOLY SHIT! COLOR ME SHOCKED!!!

And…what’s this!? THE Maxwell Jacob Friedman and Ricky Starks with all of their serious wrestling “ran off hundreds of thousands of viewers”!?!?

@LifeInCattleClass , I’m shocked!!! Shocked I tell ya!!!


----------



## bdon

All your bullshit narratives:

This rating:


----------



## The real Axel

bdon said:


> All your bullshit narratives:
> 
> This rating:
> View attachment 142454


Celebrating 950k for their biggest TV show of the year. Reel it in, dubster


----------



## bdon

The real Axel said:


> Celebrating 950k for their biggest TV show of the year. Reel it in, dubster


I am talking about the fact that these mf’ers act like “muh serious wrestling” will draw at 10pm guaranteed. Or the countless times we had to hear how “of course the second segment will lose a lot of viewers from The Big Bang lead in”.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

- Starks v MJF is the next HHH/Rock they said…


----------



## Kabraxal

The one upside they can say, they only lost 110 K throughout the show. But can we finally agree who the real draw is for AEW? The Big Bang Theory. Without that dude they’ll never start over a mil again. Put the title on ‘em!


----------



## bdon

Kabraxal said:


> The one upside they can say, they only lost 110 K throughout the show. But can we finally agree who the real draw is for AEW? The Big Bang Theory. Without that dude they’ll never start over a mil again. Put the title on ‘em!


The Elite held the rating, unlike some…


----------



## NathanMayberry

bdon said:


> All your bullshit narratives:
> 
> This rating:
> View attachment 142454


What exactly does this rating prove exactly?


----------



## 3venflow

Of the 15 editions of Dynamite in December since it began, Winter is Coming 2022 ranked 5th in total viewership and joint 6th in the coveted 18-49 demographic. December is not the best month for pro wrestling (the best months being the NFL and NBA off-seasons usually) but this week's fared well and was the most viewed of the three Winter is Coming shows despite the least major main event.

AEW's fanbase either seems to have become older this year, even though they still rank impressively high on the Nielsen charts. The Mox vs. Omega show in 2020 drew fewer viewers (913,000 - but there was still NXT competition then) but had much a much bigger key demo share (0.42). Dynamite did beat the second NBA game in young males (12-34) this week.

Gaining in the 18-49 demo from last year's WIC was a good achievement, although Dynamite rose to 0.37 the week after last year and I don't foresee that happening this year (not since mid-September have they done 0.37 or higher). RAW did 0.37 this week so Dynamite was only 0.04 behind, closest it has been in some time.

December stats in AEW history.

*2019*

12/4: 851,000 / 0.32
12/11: 778,000 / 0.28
12/18: 683,000 / 0.25

*2020*

12/2: 913,000 / 0.42
12/9: 995,000 / 0.45
12/16: 806,000 / 0.32
12/23: 775,000 / 0.32
12/30: 977,000 / 0.40

*2021*

12/1: 861,000 / 0.31
12/8: 872,000 / 0.33
12/15: 948,000 / 0.31
12/22: 1,020,000 / 0.37
12/29: 975,000 / 0.37

*2022*

12/7: 840,000 / 0.29
12/14: 950,000 / 0.33


----------



## Hotdiggity11

3venflow said:


> Of the 15 editions of Dynamite in December since it began, Winter is Coming 2022 ranked 5th in total viewership and joint 6th in the coveted 18-49 demographic. December is not the best month for pro wrestling (the best months being the NFL and NBA off-seasons usually) but this week's fared well and was the most viewed of the three Winter is Coming shows despite the least major main event.
> 
> AEW's fanbase either seems to have become older this year, even though they still rank impressively high on the Nielsen charts. The Mox vs. Omega show in 2020 drew fewer viewers (913,000 - but there was still NXT competition then) but had much a much bigger key demo share (0.42). Dynamite did beat the second NBA game in young males (12-34) this week.
> 
> Gaining in the 18-49 demo from last year's WIC was a good achievement, although Dynamite rose to 0.37 the week after last year and I don't foresee that happening this year (not since mid-September have they done 0.37 or higher). RAW did 0.37 this week so Dynamite was only 0.04 behind, closest it has been in some time.
> 
> December stats in AEW history.
> 
> *2019*
> 
> 12/4: 851,000 / 0.32
> 12/11: 778,000 / 0.28
> 12/18: 683,000 / 0.25
> 
> *2020*
> 
> 12/2: 913,000 / 0.42
> 12/9: 995,000 / 0.45
> 12/16: 806,000 / 0.32
> 12/23: 775,000 / 0.32
> 12/30: 977,000 / 0.40
> 
> *2021*
> 
> 12/1: 861,000 / 0.31
> 12/8: 872,000 / 0.33
> 12/15: 948,000 / 0.31
> 12/22: 1,020,000 / 0.37
> 12/29: 975,000 / 0.37
> 
> *2022*
> 
> 12/7: 840,000 / 0.29
> 12/14: 950,000 / 0.33


Lowest demo average since 2019. Ouch.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

bdon said:


> All your bullshit narratives:
> 
> This rating:
> View attachment 142454


Well all the big bang fans forgot to turn the channel duh


----------



## bdon

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> Well all the big bang fans forgot to turn the channel duh


They damn sure remember when it is Bryan.


----------



## IronMan8

Well duh. Everything is in line with the big picture, as expected

AEW easily draws an upward graph each year in a TV population with chronic shrinkage. 

I don't expect next year's MJF numbers to surpass WWE's, but there's really no ceiling to what this product can achieve long-term


----------



## Teemu™

Looks like Ricky Starks is a draw, friend.


----------



## Irish Jet

Almost makes you think Starks should have been featured all along.

Potential star. Shame the MJF feud ended so soon. He should get his wins back over Hook and Hobbs.


----------



## bdon

Irish Jet said:


> Almost makes you think Starks should have been featured all along.
> 
> Potential star. Shame the MJF feud ended so soon. He should get his wins back over Hook and Hobbs.


Take note brothers, @LifeInCattleClass , @Prized Fighter , and @RapShepard :

- Ricky Starks loses 20k viewers from one segment to the next in a main event World Title match, and he is a draw and should have been featured.

- The Elite lose 7k viewers in the main event of an undercard Trios match, and they “chased away hundreds of thousands of viewers”.

- Bryan Danielson routinely loses 100K+ viewers over the course of his tv time, and he should be more featured. The loss in ratings is just natural, because of the big lead-in from The Big Bang.

- The Elite only lose 7k of those Big Bang lead-in viewers, and they should fuck off to PWG.


This week only further proves what I’ve been saying, it isn’t that people don’t care about the main event. It’s the show starting off slow, losing all of the viewers from jumpstreet and merely hoping they return as the night gets later and later for the East Coasters.

One more…for the good guys.


----------



## Serious_frusting

bdon said:


> Take note brothers, @LifeInCattleClass , @Prized Fighter , and @RapShepard :
> 
> - Ricky Starks loses 20k viewers from one segment to the next in a main event World Title match, and he is a draw and should have been featured.
> 
> - The Elite lose 7k viewers in the main event of an undercard Trios match, and they “chased away hundreds of thousands of viewers”.
> 
> - Bryan Danielson routinely loses 100K+ viewers over the course of his tv time, and he should be more featured. The loss in ratings is just natural, because of the big lead-in from The Big Bang.
> 
> - The Elite only lose 7k of those Big Bang lead-in viewers, and they should fuck off to PWG.
> 
> 
> This week only further proves what I’ve been saying, it isn’t that people don’t care about the main event. It’s the show starting off slow, losing all of the viewers from jumpstreet and merely hoping they return as the night gets later and later for the East Coasters.
> 
> One more…for the good guys.


I would argue that when fans new the Elite were the main event everyone just tuned out thinking this is gonna be a poor show with these in the main. With Starks and MJF in the main the fans wanted to stick around to see what was going on. Hence no mass exit in the first quarter.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

Wow twinkletoes and the cucks still lost viewers


----------



## IronMan8

Another week, another 90% retention rate

They'll get an easy 10% increase next month for seasonal reasons.

Now that WWE has gone into turmoil over the Vince thing (which will remain as an eternally looming shadow), it's even more of an issue how Trips keeps tripping over his own banana nose with the booking. Meanwhile, AEW likely has the Mercedes buzz next month adjacent to an MJF/Danielson main event build as seasonal ratings increase, leading to AEW regaining momentum that was temporarily lost after Punk's muffin meltdown.

Very bullish about AEW's medium-term prospects.

That Double or Nothing - Forbidden Door - All Out season in 2023 should be the biggest test for where AEW is truly heading long-term in the ratings. We'll have a clearer picture by All Out, 2023.

But yeah, if next week's Q7 dips by 3% let's dust off the pitchforks for the 37th time


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

IronMan8 said:


> Another week, another 90% retention rate
> 
> They'll get an easy 10% increase next month for seasonal reasons.
> 
> Now that WWE has gone into turmoil over the Vince thing (which will remain as an eternally looming shadow), it's even more of an issue how Trips keeps tripping over his own banana nose with the booking. Meanwhile, AEW likely has the Mercedes buzz next month adjacent to an MJF/Danielson main event build as seasonal ratings increase, leading to AEW regaining momentum that was temporarily lost after Punk's muffin meltdown.
> 
> Very bullish about AEW's medium-term prospects.
> 
> That Double or Nothing - Forbidden Door - All Out season in 2023 should be the biggest test for where AEW is truly heading long-term in the ratings. We'll have a clearer picture by All Out, 2023.
> 
> But yeah, if next week's Q7 dips by 3% let's dust off the pitchforks for the 37th time


if the track record stays true, we’ll have Brawl Out 2 with Sasha vs Baker by all out 2023

’attitude problems’


----------



## RLT1981

such a shame I feel AEW has gotten better since the last ppv but the problem is Tony ran alot of fans off doing the summer with the Japan shit and having ROH all over there show its going to take alot to get them back.


----------



## Teemu™

LifeInCattleClass said:


> if the track record stays true, we’ll have Brawl Out 2 with Sasha vs Baker by all out 2023
> 
> ’attitude problems’


It's gonna be Sasha and Jericho, I feel. Jericho seems to have some deep rooted issues with Sasha. Just from a bystander's perspective. If Sasha, in any way, overshadows Jericho in AEW, it's fucking on.


----------



## bdon

Lenny Leonard said:


> Wow twinkletoes and the cucks still lost viewers


Jesus, you people really will twist anything to fit your fucking narratives.

Proof that most of the people on this board are not here attempting to have a legit convo.

Like I said below…



bdon said:


> Take note brothers, @LifeInCattleClass , @Prized Fighter , and @RapShepard :
> 
> - Ricky Starks loses 20k viewers from one segment to the next in a main event World Title match, and he is a draw and should have been featured.
> 
> - The Elite lose 7k viewers in the main event of an undercard Trios match, and they “chased away hundreds of thousands of viewers”.
> 
> - Bryan Danielson routinely loses 100K+ viewers over the course of his tv time, and he should be more featured. The loss in ratings is just natural, because of the big lead-in from The Big Bang.
> 
> - The Elite only lose 7k of those Big Bang lead-in viewers, and they should fuck off to PWG.
> 
> 
> This week only further proves what I’ve been saying, it isn’t that people don’t care about the main event. It’s the show starting off slow, losing all of the viewers from jumpstreet and merely hoping they return as the night gets later and later for the East Coasters.
> 
> One more…for the good guys.


----------



## Teemu™

What was AEW drawing when Punk was there? Wasn't it around the same? Just below a million?


----------



## Prized Fighter

bdon said:


> Take note brothers, @LifeInCattleClass , @Prized Fighter , and @RapShepard :
> 
> - Ricky Starks loses 20k viewers from one segment to the next in a main event World Title match, and he is a draw and should have been featured.
> 
> - The Elite lose 7k viewers in the main event of an undercard Trios match, and they “chased away hundreds of thousands of viewers”.
> 
> - Bryan Danielson routinely loses 100K+ viewers over the course of his tv time, and he should be more featured. The loss in ratings is just natural, because of the big lead-in from The Big Bang.
> 
> - The Elite only lose 7k of those Big Bang lead-in viewers, and they should fuck off to PWG.
> 
> 
> This week only further proves what I’ve been saying, it isn’t that people don’t care about the main event. It’s the show starting off slow, losing all of the viewers from jumpstreet and merely hoping they return as the night gets later and later for the East Coasters.
> 
> One more…for the good guys.


I would like a Power Point of these numbers on my desk by end of business today.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Never thought I'd say this but I kind of miss VamosRamos and his silly twitter-esque posts. Dammit C too.


----------



## NathanMayberry

IronMan8 said:


> Another week, another 90% retention rate
> 
> They'll get an easy 10% increase next month for seasonal reasons.
> 
> Now that WWE has gone into turmoil over the Vince thing (which will remain as an eternally looming shadow), it's even more of an issue how Trips keeps tripping over his own banana nose with the booking. Meanwhile, AEW likely has the Mercedes buzz next month adjacent to an MJF/Danielson main event build as seasonal ratings increase, leading to AEW regaining momentum that was temporarily lost after Punk's muffin meltdown.
> 
> Very bullish about AEW's medium-term prospects.
> 
> That Double or Nothing - Forbidden Door - All Out season in 2023 should be the biggest test for where AEW is truly heading long-term in the ratings. We'll have a clearer picture by All Out, 2023.
> 
> But yeah, if next week's Q7 dips by 3% let's dust off the pitchforks for the 37th time


Umm is going into January that has the Royal rumble that has already sold more tickets for that night than AEW will for the entire month of January. 

It’s crazy how that’s considered turmoil but a company that’s putting on world title matches on free tv and can’t even hold the million viewers it starts off with is bullish.. if they can sign more ex stars from that company that’s in turmoil [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## redban

A lot of people didn't stay for Starks vs MJF. They rushed Starks into this big spot. He needed some time to rise through the midcard first


----------



## bdon

Serious_frusting said:


> I would argue that when fans new the Elite were the main event everyone just tuned out thinking this is gonna be a poor show with these in the main. With Starks and MJF in the main the fans wanted to stick around to see what was going on. Hence no mass exit in the first quarter.


And yet, in this first graph we see after Bryan Danielson’s “super serious REAL professional wrestling” match ran off 153k viewers, there was only a drop of 85k viewers over an hour and a half of television.











Yet as we see below, The Elite’s “orchestrated dance routine” held 99.3% of the 1m mark lead-in, and MJF and Starks’ “super serious, REAL professional wrestling” lost 106k viewers from the time Dance Dance Revolution ended. Hmmmmm…funny how narratives go, eh?


----------



## bdon

All your bullshit narratives:

This rating:


----------



## Kishido

Yeeeeeesssssss! Over 900k again


----------



## Mister Sinister

😂😂😂 The show fell below 900k by the end. People tuned in to see if the show was going to sober up, and over the course of it, AEW lost the whole bump. 150k people turned the channel. Almost a third of those viewers turned it off during the opening wrestle porn circus or directly after (in response).


----------



## bdon

Mister Sinister said:


> 😂😂😂 The show fell below 900k by the end. People tuned in to see if the show was going to sober up, and over the course of it, AEW lost the whole bump. 150k people turned the channel. Almost a third of those viewers turned it off during the opening wrestle porn circus or directly after (in response).


99.3% stayed vs 153k who just last week decided “fuck this” and changed the channel of super serious wrestlers, Dax and Bryan.

Pretty sure everyone would prefer only losing 150k people over the course of a show vs the roughly 240k that decided to not return because of super serious wrestling.

As we have known since Monday Night Nitro, opening matches should be hot and fast-paced to set the tone of the night. If you open to a drag, most viewers are going to allow the “little bit of everything all of the time” ADD to take control and change the channel.


----------



## Teemu™

I know that in the anti-AEW crowd, the fashionable thing to do is to hate on the wrestling style of Omega and the Bucks and all that, but say what you want about their personalities and characters, but I feel like ring style is right for this ADD era. You do need big personalities and stories and all this stuff, yea, but I just don't see a reason to change the wrestling style. I don't see how slow paced mat wrestling match would be better. That's as boring as eating a dishrag. People love fast-paced car crash action movies, and the Elite style of wrestling is the wrestling equivalent of that. Wrestling is fake, who cares if it's not realistic. Action movies aren't realistic, either. They're entertaining. It's entertainment. AWA tried to do simulated realistic wrestling, and went out of business lol. Decades ago.

I think people have a much higher chance of staying on the channel when the wrestling is awe-inspiring and fast-paced. And I'm not really someone who cares a whole lot one way or the other about Omega and the Bucks.

But there was a time when old timers were really salty about Harley being too flashy with his high knee. Some things never change.


----------



## bdon

Teemu™ said:


> I know that in the anti-AEW crowd, the fashionable thing to do is to hate on the wrestling style of Omega and the Bucks and all that, but say what you want about their personalities and characters, but I feel like ring style is right for this ADD era. You do need big personalities and stories and all this stuff, yea, but I just don't see a reason to change the wrestling style. I don't see how slow paced mat wrestling match would be better. That's as boring as eating a dishrag. People love fast-paced car crash action movies, and the Elite style of wrestling is the wrestling equivalent of that. Wrestling is fake, who cares if it's not realistic. Action movies aren't realistic, either. They're entertaining. It's entertainment. AWA tried to do simulated realistic wrestling, and went out of business lol. Decades ago.
> 
> I think people have a much higher chance of staying on the channel when the wrestling is awe-inspiring and fast-paced. And I'm not really someone who cares a whole lot one way or the other about Omega and the Bucks.
> 
> But there was a time when old timers were really salty about Harley being too flashy with his high knee. Some things never change.


Logic on WF!?

BAN THIS MAN!!! Lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

@bdon Make this your profile pic please. I can’t imagine you any other way.


----------



## bdon

#BadNewsSanta said:


> @bdon Make this your profile pic please. I can’t imagine you any other way.
> View attachment 142784


Must suck getting hit with facts that don’t jive with bullshit narratives.

Thankfully, I reside in the realm of logic and numbers.

“Punk is a big time star, and they drove him away!!!”

The big time star was only good enough for an extra few thousand per week, and as many weeks over the million mark as The Trampoline Gang. And when the shows was at its best…he was not in any of the top rated segments. Ouch. 

“The Elite ran off HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of viewers!!”

Bryan Danielson ran off 200k viewers multiple times, and the remaining audience mostly stayed.

“Well of course they turned it off, they are only getting the big lead-in from The Big Bang!”

Dance Dance Revolution maintained 99.3% of the lead-in over the first 30 minutes resulting in only losing 112k viewers over the course of 2 hours of tv.

What other narratives do y’all wish to have blown up in your face..?


----------



## bdon




----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> 99.3% stayed vs 153k who just last week decided “fuck this” and changed the channel of super serious wrestlers, Dax and Bryan.
> 
> Pretty sure everyone would prefer only losing 150k people over the course of a show vs the roughly 240k that decided to not return because of super serious wrestling.
> 
> As we have known since Monday Night Nitro, opening matches should be hot and fast-paced to set the tone of the night. If you open to a drag, most viewers are going to allow the “little bit of everything all of the time” ADD to take control and change the channel.


Yeah bravo for comparing the 2nd biggest TV show of the year to a random episode.
Before Tony killed Bryan, Bryan vs Adam Page last year started 940K and ended up HIGHER in Q2 and by Q4 gained nealy 100K to get to 1.05m


----------



## bdon

Not Lying said:


> Yeah bravo for comparing the 2nd biggest TV show of the year to a random episode.
> Before Tony killed Bryan, Bryan vs Adam Page last year started 940K and ended up HIGHER in Q2 and by Q4 gained nealy 100K to get to 1.05m


Oh, you mean…Empty-Headed Fucking Dumb Fuck Adam Page, best friend of the Elite?

Yeah. He, too, is part of the Top 5 highest rated segments for AEW’s top shows. Good eye, sport!


----------



## Jones1

Reading you guys arguing over this is hilarious. 

Some of the most cringy and pathetic stuff I've ever read. I hope none of you are adults and posting all this.


----------



## bdon

bdon said:


> Oh, you mean…Empty-Headed Fucking Dumb Fuck Adam Page, best friend of the Elite?
> 
> Yeah. He, too, is part of the Top 5 highest rated segments for AEW’s top shows. Good eye, sport!
> View attachment 142797


You know who is strangely missing, @LifeInCattleClass ?

CM CENA: “U CAN’T SEE ME” on this list.


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> Oh, you mean…Empty-Headed Fucking Dumb Fuck Adam Page, best friend of the Elite?
> 
> Yeah. He, too, is part of the Top 5 highest rated segments for AEW’s top shows. Good eye, sport!
> View attachment 142797


Lmao. Nice deflection. Page >> Omega >> Bucks >> Bucks in trios. But they’re are all meh.

If you know the circumstances around each episode and weren’t so biased you’d see how Bryan is in the 3 of the top 4, and he’s THE MAIN REASON, they got those high ratings.


----------



## bdon

Not Lying said:


> Lmao. Nice deflection. Page >> Omega >> Bucks >> Bucks in trios. But they’re are all meh.
> 
> If you know the circumstances around each episode and weren’t so biased you’d see how Bryan is in the 3 of the top 4, and he’s THE MAIN REASON, they got those high ratings.


That is fair. He is in those, and so was Omega. Omega, who along with Page, was the top rated segment in the 5th highest rated Dynamite sans the debut episode.

Fellow “super serious, REAL professional wrestling” savant CM Cena is so good “U Can’t See Him” in the top 5, despite working with that very same Adam Page roughly 6 months later.

Punk worked a 6 month program with fellow ratings draw MJF. Where’s all of the “muh serious wrestling” in that Top 5? Looks like The Trampoline Kids up and down the list, along with “cringey” Jericho.


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> That is fair. He is in those, and so was Omega. Omega, who along with Page, was the top rated segment in the 5th highest rated Dynamite sans the debut episode.
> 
> CM Cena is so good “U Can’t See Him” in the top 5, despite working with that very same Adam Page roughly 6 months later.


As I pointed out earlier.

Punk beat them all in his return 10pm on a friday with 1.34.

Plus, 2 those episodes were hyped episode following All Out 2021 because Punk and Bryan, but the stupid cokehead booker kept him on rampage wrestling jobbers. But the eyes he brought to the product are thanks to him. Bryan kept them on those highest rated episodes.

Punk was wrestling Hobbs on Friday at GrandSlam why Ruby Soho main fuckinng evented.


----------



## bdon

Not Lying said:


> As I pointed out earlier.
> 
> Punk beat them all in his return 10pm on a friday with 1.34.
> 
> Plus, 2 those episodes were hyped episode following All Out 2021 because Punk and Bryan, but the stupid cokehead booker kept him on rampage wrestling jobbers. But the eyes he brought to the product are thanks to him. Bryan kept them on those highest rated episodes.
> 
> Punk was wrestling Hobbs on Friday at GrandSlam why Ruby Soho main fuckinng evented.


So, he did 1.34m after 7 years? After 7 years, a whopping 200k extra people wanted to see him as opposed to Omega and Page.

Seems like a shit Return on Investment to me, @LifeInCattleClass , but I’d expect nothing less from Empty-headed Fucking Dumb Fuck, CM Cena.


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> So, he did 1.34m after 7 years? After 7 years, a whopping 200k extra people wanted to see him as opposed to Omega and Page.
> 
> Seems like a shit Return on Investment to me, @LifeInCattleClass , but I’d expect nothing less from Empty-headed Fucking Dumb Fuck, CM Cena.


At 10pm. On a friday. Should have been on Dynamite. When comparing apples to apples, your bous fail. Deal with it. Twist whatever logic you want. I showed you the facts before and after Punk arrived. But go ahead and attribute the ratings Punk brought to the ballet dancing goofy champion they had.


----------



## bdon

Not Lying said:


> At 10pm. On a friday. Should have been on Dynamite. When comparing apples to apples, your bous fail. Deal with it. Twist whatever logic you want. I showed you the facts before and after Punk arrived. But go ahead and attribute the ratings Punk brought to the ballet dancing goofy champion they had.


He brought them ratings for his return after 7 years and a show’s second episode ever? Then why isn’t “he” in the highest rated segments of the most watched shows ever? 

Youuuuu can twist things however you feel. Your dealing in if’s. I’m dealing in facts. Here they are one more time for you in case you missed them:


----------



## Mister Sinister

bdon said:


> 99.3% stayed vs 153k who just last week decided “fuck this” and changed the channel of super serious wrestlers, Dax and Bryan.
> 
> Pretty sure everyone would prefer only losing 150k people over the course of a show vs the roughly 240k that decided to not return because of super serious wrestling.
> 
> As we have known since Monday Night Nitro, opening matches should be hot and fast-paced to set the tone of the night. If you open to a drag, most viewers are going to allow the “little bit of everything all of the time” ADD to take control and change the channel.


The new normal is in the 800 thousands. This week bumped back into the 900s (average), but they still lost those returning viewers over the course of the show. I doubt those viewers are coming back in the weeks ahead. There won't be a world title match and Game of Thrones license next week.

The show should be at the door of 2 million viewers by now. It's year three. They have lost about 400k viewers? They are struggling to break 900k now with a stacked roster. This ship is going in the wrong direction.

It's not about the talent or wrestling style. It's about the writing, match continuity/logic/psychology, show pacing, character development, show beats and general lack of knowledge of how writing works.

The long matches on tv should be rare and reserved for shit that's got actual fire behind it. I don't care who is wrestling, you don't open with a long ass opening match that drains the air out of the balloon. Who the hell can follow a 30 minute match? They don't care how much they hurt the rest of the show. They only care about showcasing their shit like they are still auditioning for the WWE.

Look at how Wardlow beats MJF but MJF fails upwards. Look at the mangled narrative we suffered while Mox was lame duck champion so Punk could come back and get injured again. Look at how many times in matches guys will knock a dude down with a big move, run the ropes only for the dude to jump up from the mat to counter and then act tired and lie down.


----------



## bdon

Mister Sinister said:


> The new normal is in the 800 thousands. This week bumped back into the 900s (average), but they still lost those returning viewers over the course of the show. I doubt those viewers are coming back in the weeks ahead. There won't be a world title match and Game of Thrones license next week.
> 
> The show should be at the door of 2 million viewers by now. It's year three. They have lost about 400k viewers? They are struggling to break 900k now with a stacked roster. This ship is going in the wrong direction.
> 
> It's not about the talent or wrestling style. It's about the writing, match continuity/logic/psychology, show pacing, character development, show beats and general lack of knowledge of how writing works.
> 
> The long matches on tv should be rare and reserved for shit that's got actual fire behind it. I don't care who is wrestling, you don't open with a long ass opening match that drains the air out of the balloon. Who the hell can follow a 30 minute match? They don't care how much they hurt the rest of the show. They only care about showcasing their shit like they are still auditioning for the WWE.
> 
> Look at how Wardlow beats MJF but MJF fails upwards. Look at the mangled narrative we suffered while Mox was lame duck champion so Punk could come back and get injured again. Look at how many times in matches guys will knock a dude down with a big move, run the ropes only for the dude to jump up from the mat to counter and then act tired and lie down.


Ummm…have you met TK? This is what he wants. This show, and the previous 2, felt like AEW, not WWE-lite. Early 2022 was full of promos and shorter matches, still only hit 1m viewers 7 times prior to All Out. They hit 1m viewers 7 times in 2021 prior to Sept as well.

_Fuck The Casuals. _Be AEW and provide an alternative.


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> He brought them ratings for his return after 7 years and a show’s second episode ever? Then why isn’t “he” in the highest rated segments of the most watched shows ever?
> 
> Youuuuu can twist things however you feel. Your dealing in if’s. I’m dealing in facts. Here they are one more time for you in case you missed them:
> 
> View attachment 142812


Lmao. Delusional. Keep twisting as I am the one dealing with facts and you have to bend backwards to make your boy not seem like a complete idiot who chases away viewers.
He returned after 8 months to lose 100K viewers within 10min. Just take the L. 

You post that photo and i tell you Punk outdrew them all on 10pm on a friday, and your response is it’s been 7 years? So fucking what??? Did he outdraw them or not? Admit it. 
His weekly videos on youtube would be 2-3x the viewerships of of anyone else. 


And you boy lost 100K viewers after people saw he returned and then said « meh ».
Punk almost always gains viewers.


----------



## bdon

Not Lying said:


> Lmao. Delusional. Keep twisting as I am the one dealing with facts and you have to bend backwards to make your boy not seem like a complete idiot who chases away viewers.
> He returned after 8 months to lose 100K viewers within 10min. Just take the L.
> 
> You post that photo and i tell you Punk outdrew them all on 10pm on a friday, and your response is it’s been 7 years? So fucking what??? Did he outdraw them or not? Admit it.
> His weekly videos on youtube would be 2-3x the viewerships of of anyone else.
> 
> 
> And you boy lost 100K viewers after people saw he returned and then said « meh ».
> Punk almost always gains viewers.


Actually, a 100k tuned in for a heatless trios match WITH ANDRADE and 90k said “meh” after 15 minutes. Still a net gain.

Punk in a trios match driven by the hottest story in the company MJF and flanked by Sting, Darby, and FTR gained something like 50k and lost nearly 20k of that by the final quarter hour. That was a huge, story-driven match.

Punk is a draw, but he is not this massive draw you want to claim. The number confirm ALL of this, man. If he were, there would have been no questioning who stays and who goes. That’s the simple truth of the matter. If Punk were Rock, Hogan, Austin, etc, he wouldn’t have anything to worry about and the Elite would have been gone.

The numbers across the board do not reflect a massive difference in Punk’s drawing ability over Mox, The Elite, etc.

If they did, he would be in the top ratings segments of the highest viewed episodes. If he was a massive draw, Rampage wouldn’t have fell off a cliff immediately after. If he was a massive draw, PPV buyrates wouldn’t have steadily dropped back to the mean since his return. If he was a draw, Dynamite‘s highest rated episodes after the debut episode would have came when he had TBS airing Dynamite and no one fucking with the momentum due to NBA playoffs.


----------



## bdon

Big story-driven match involving 6 of AEW’s Top 20 guys at the time, and they lost nearly half of the gain.

Trios matches do not draw.

Thankfully we have other ways of seeing who are draws. Like “who is in the top rated segments of the most watched episodes?” You can champion Punk being in that huge rating for Rampage’s second episode and his return after 7 years. And I agree, it did draw.

Then the shock of his return wore off, and we see who were drawing the top segments. Then the shock of his return wore off, and the PPV buyrates began dropping back to Mox/Omega levels. Then the shock of his return wore off, and Page/Mox sold more tickets than Punk/Mox, despite being in a smaller venue with more expensive tickets.

Your boy is not a needle mover.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Damn MJF and Stark got slaughtered. That's what happens when a big proven draw like Punk is not there.


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> View attachment 142884
> 
> 
> Big story-driven match involving 6 of AEW’s Top 20 guys at the time, and they lost nearly half of the gain.
> 
> Trios matches do not draw.
> 
> Thankfully we have other ways of seeing who are draws. Like “who is in the top rated segments of the most watched episodes?” You can champion Punk being in that huge rating for Rampage’s second episode and his return after 7 years. And I agree, it did draw.
> 
> Then the shock of his return wore off, and we see who were drawing the top segments. Then the shock of his return wore off, and the PPV buyrates began dropping back to Mox/Omega levels. Then the shock of his return wore off, and Page/Mox sold more tickets than Punk/Mox, despite being in a smaller venue with more expensive tickets.
> 
> Your boy is not a needle mover.


A net gain of 10K??? That’s not how it works. Like lmao good for you outdrawing the women by 100K by then still lost 90K 10min later 😂 for his RETURN 😂😂

It’s quite simple, if he was remotely close the star you think he is people would have at least finished his return match to see his ring shape; but Zero interest; no one missed him. 

Are you insane showing me this graph like it proves your point and not mine??


Omega’s RETURN lost 10% of the audience.
The Punk 6 man with FTR lost 1%. That’s nothing.


----------



## kingfunkel

CM Punk has a quater of 1.34m but it's his fault the rest of the show lost viewers. So that figure doesn't count towards your top quater, in the highest rated episode narrative. 

Not putting massive research or time into it. It's such a ridiculous criteria. Even uncle buck admits Punk is their biggest draw.


----------



## Teemu™

Wolf Mark said:


> Damn MJF and Stark got slaughtered. That's what happens when a big proven draw like Punk is not there.


What happened when Punk headlined Dynamites? Did that happen much? I feel like he was in the opener a lot. And this is a genuine question, I legit don't know. It's a weird trend in wrestling that's been around for a long time where the shows lose viewers towards the end. I wonder if the shows are just too long. Most TV shows are an hour max, and honestly, I feel like an hour of episodic TV is the sweet spot where I'm left wanting more if it ends on a cliffhanger. But I'm not saying that's totally what this is. But The Elite also lost viewers when headlining. People seemed to stick around now that they were opening. Do people just have more energy in the beginning, but the show just bores them towards the end. WWE has the same exact trend.


----------



## bdon

Teemu™ said:


> What happened when Punk headlined Dynamites? Did that happen much? *I feel like he was in the opener a lot.* And this is a genuine question, I legit don't know. It's a weird trend in wrestling that's been around for a long time where the shows lose viewers towards the end. I wonder if the shows are just too long. Most TV shows are an hour max, and honestly, I feel like an hour of episodic TV is the sweet spot where I'm left wanting more if it ends on a cliffhanger. But I'm not saying that's totally what this is. But The Elite also lost viewers when headlining. People seemed to stick around now that they were opening. Do people just have more energy in the beginning, but the show just bores them towards the end. WWE has the same exact trend.


Because he was, and everyone chalked it up to trying to maintain the most viewers from the Big Bang lead-in. When the Elite do it, and successfully maintain the Big Bang lead-in unlike most of AEW’s opening acts of late, everyone cries that the Elite are trying to save face in the ratings.


----------



## bdon

kingfunkel said:


> CM Punk has a quater of 1.34m but it's his fault the rest of the show lost viewers. So that figure doesn't count towards your top quater, in the highest rated episode narrative.
> 
> Not putting massive research or time into it. It's such a ridiculous criteria. Even uncle buck admits Punk is their biggest draw.


Biggest draw does not mean needle mover. I have said that I see Punk as the biggest draw, but the numbers do not show him to be world’s apart from Mox, Jericho, and Omega.

Take away the return of Punk, and you’ll see he’s right in line with every other top guy. The PPV buy rates DWINDLED the further UP the card he climbed to the point that by the end, he and Mox was able to outsell an Omega/Mox PPV by 4k viewers. The ticket sales saw Punk/Mox put less butts in seats than Page/Mox despite being in a smaller venue at a higher price.

Goddamn Punk and MJF delivered the best story and feud in wrestling in HOW LONG, yet he is still not on that too 5 highest ratings list. He was around for those and had as good a chance as any to make his way to the top. You want to give credit to Bryan, ok sure - Bryan is involved in 3 of the 5. Omega is involved in 4 of the 5, one with an “empty-headed fucking dumb fuck” who “has never been anywhere or done anything or sold anything”. So, why wasn’t it Punk delivering the top ratings on those big nights?

But y’all refuse to discuss these FACTS.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW's return to Canada on 3/13/23 (Winnipeg) sold over 5,400 in the pre-sale + day one. Canada is such a lucrative market that they should consider multiple visits per year.

On the other hand, the Laredo, TX debut on 2/15/23 had a poor start to sales with just under 1,200 sold. This one has a lot of work to do to become a decent number.

The 3/8/23 Sacramento show falls somewhere in the middle with 2,354 sold after the pre-sale and day one general sale.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Teemu™ said:


> What happened when Punk headlined Dynamites? Did that happen much? I feel like he was in the opener a lot. And this is a genuine question, I legit don't know. It's a weird trend in wrestling that's been around for a long time where the shows lose viewers towards the end. I wonder if the shows are just too long. Most TV shows are an hour max, and honestly, I feel like an hour of episodic TV is the sweet spot where I'm left wanting more if it ends on a cliffhanger. But I'm not saying that's totally what this is. But The Elite also lost viewers when headlining. People seemed to stick around now that they were opening. Do people just have more energy in the beginning, but the show just bores them towards the end. WWE has the same exact trend.


I was just saying that to tease bdon. lol


----------



## The real Axel

#BadNewsSanta said:


> @bdon Make this your profile pic please. I can’t imagine you any other way.
> View attachment 142784


I can imagine this geek shaking with rage as he defends his precious bucks and their ratings


----------



## bdon

The real Axel said:


> I can imagine this geek shaking with rage as he defends his precious bucks and their ratings


Glad I matter to you so much, kid.


----------



## CM Buck

bdon said:


> Glad I matter to you so much, kid.


He has been duly reprimanded


----------



## Hotdiggity11

What's the excuse game plan if there's an underwhelming rating next week?

"It's 4 days before Christmas, bro!"


----------



## Lenny Leonard

Hotdiggity11 said:


> What's the excuse game plan if there's an underwhelming rating next week?
> 
> "It's 4 days before Christmas, bro!"


Everyone knows christmas eve eve eve eve is the busiest travel day


----------



## IronMan8

Hotdiggity11 said:


> What's the excuse game plan if there's an underwhelming rating next week?
> 
> "It's 4 days before Christmas, bro!"


Nah lol

We know how good the product is 

Let the below fact marinate and get back to me lol

AEW in 2019 - baseline 
AEW in 2020 - increase in ratings 
AEW in 2021 - increase in ratings 
AEW in 2022 - increase in ratings 

WWE in 2000 - peak 
WWE in 2001 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2002 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2003 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2004 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2005 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2006 - decrease in ratings
WWE in 2007 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2008 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2009 - decrease in ratings
WWE in 2010 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2011 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2012 - decrease in ratings
WWE in 2013 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2014 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2015 - decrease in ratings
WWE in 2016 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2017 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2018 - decrease in ratings
WWE in 2019 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2020 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2021 - decrease in ratings
WWE in 2022 - decrease in ratings


----------



## Hotdiggity11

IronMan8 said:


> Nah lol
> 
> We know how good the product is
> 
> Let the below fact marinate and get back to me lol
> 
> AEW in 2019 - baseline
> AEW in 2020 - increase in ratings
> AEW in 2021 - increase in ratings
> AEW in 2022 - increase in ratings
> 
> WWE in 2000 - peak
> WWE in 2001 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2002 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2003 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2004 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2005 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2006 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2007 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2008 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2009 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2010 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2011 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2012 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2013 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2014 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2015 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2016 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2017 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2018 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2019 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2020 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2021 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2022 - decrease in ratings


That’s a lot of text that didn’t address the question but ok.


----------



## IronMan8

Hotdiggity11 said:


> That’s a lot of text that didn’t address the question but ok.


Question answered between the lines / over the forest


----------



## Hotdiggity11

IronMan8 said:


> Question answered between the lines / over the forest


I mean, if we’re going by numbers 









AEW Dynamite ratings so far in 2022 compared to 2021, and how much viewership downturn coincides with Punk's absence - Pro Wrestling Torch


AEW Dynamite this week drew 870,000 live and same-night viewers on cable TV (including traditional cable and broadband streaming services that carry TBS). It’s the third straight week Dynamite has drawn under 900,000 viewers. Last [...]




www.pwtorch.com




.


Numbers are up in 2022 but down in the second half of 2022 compared to the second half of 2021. The decline noticeably started in the aftermath of the All-Out media scrum with the CM Punk-Elite drama.

But no, you didn’t answer the question. Either directly or indirectly.


----------



## One Shed

Hotdiggity11 said:


> I mean, if we’re going by numbers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Dynamite ratings so far in 2022 compared to 2021, and how much viewership downturn coincides with Punk's absence - Pro Wrestling Torch
> 
> 
> AEW Dynamite this week drew 870,000 live and same-night viewers on cable TV (including traditional cable and broadband streaming services that carry TBS). It’s the third straight week Dynamite has drawn under 900,000 viewers. Last [...]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pwtorch.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Numbers are up in 2022 but down in the second half of 2022 compared to the second half of 2021. The decline noticeably started in the aftermath of the All-Out media scrum with the CM Punk-Elite drama.
> 
> But no, you didn’t answer the question. Either directly or indirectly.


But I thought the ratings for sure would be way up with Punk gone and the Hardlys and Kenny doing nonstop trios matches every week?


----------



## Saintpat

Typical Tony Khan booking to go for a cheap ratings spike with the pizza guy then drop him like a lump of dough when the public was wanting more.

It’s been downhill ever since.


----------



## Itiswhatitis

IronMan8 said:


> Nah lol
> 
> We know how good the product is
> 
> Let the below fact marinate and get back to me lol
> 
> AEW in 2019 - baseline
> AEW in 2020 - increase in ratings
> AEW in 2021 - increase in ratings
> AEW in 2022 - increase in ratings
> 
> WWE in 2000 - peak
> WWE in 2001 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2002 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2003 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2004 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2005 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2006 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2007 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2008 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2009 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2010 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2011 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2012 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2013 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2014 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2015 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2016 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2017 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2018 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2019 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2020 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2021 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2022 - decrease in ratings


Yeah thanks to Punk. As he leaves so do the ratings


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> But I thought the ratings for sure would be way up with Punk gone and the Hardlys and Kenny doing nonstop trios matches every week?


Where were you this week when I tagged you? I thought super serious wrestling would increase viewers? I thought it was a given that people tune out every time the Trios are on TV? I thought it was a given that the second quarter would lose a ton of viewers each week, because there is no way to maintain the lead-in from Big Bang..?


----------



## bdon

Saintpat said:


> Typical Tony Khan booking to go for a cheap ratings spike with the pizza guy then drop him like a lump of dough when the public was wanting more.
> 
> It’s been downhill ever since.


The Bucks were scared he tossed pizza better than they toss punches.

Well shit, this one is probably true.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Where were you this week when I tagged you? I thought super serious wrestling would increase viewers? I thought it was a given that people tune out every time the Trios are on TV? I thought it was a given that the second quarter would lose a ton of viewers each week, because there is no way to maintain the lead-in from Big Bang..?


They did still manage to lose viewers though right?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

One Shed said:


> But I thought the ratings for sure would be way up with Punk gone and the Hardlys and Kenny doing nonstop trios matches every week?


It’s ok. I heard the 6 man dance routine is no DQ this week. This Cha Cha Slide is coming with chairs and tables. Bald ref gets a night off as he doesn’t even have to pretend to take 80 seconds to count to 10.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> They did still manage to lose viewers though right?


Less than 1% of the viewers when Nielsen accounts for a 10% margin of error is maintaining. It certainly isn’t chasing off 200k viewers like super serious wrestling Bryan Danielson has done, forcing the rest of the show to play from behind the 8-ball.

Maintain the lead-in, and you‘ll not lose nearly as many by the end. Just as I said. Also as I said, trios should never be main eventing. It’s an undercard title, and it’s a natural fit for a show opener. You watched WCW. You know the impact it has to start a show fast and hot.


----------



## bdon

Hotdiggity11 said:


> It’s ok. I heard the 6 man dance routine is no DQ this week. This Cha Cha Slide is coming with chairs and tables. Bald ref gets a night off as he doesn’t even have to pretend to take 80 seconds to count to 10.


It’s ok. I heard super serious, REAL professional wrestler Bryan Danielson isn’t currently scheduled for action, so there isn’t any guarantee of 100k fans turning off the TV before anything can possibly hook them to stay.


----------



## bdon

Also @One Shed , since you are so quick to blame Trios, give me your mental gymnastics excuse for why super serious professional wrestling lost more viewers in the main event than Dance Dance Revolution did the prior week?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

bdon said:


> It’s ok. I heard super serious, REAL professional wrestler Bryan Danielson isn’t currently scheduled for action, so there isn’t any guarantee of 100k fans turning off the TV before anything can possibly hook them to stay.


Won’t hurt my feelings either.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Less than 1% of the viewers when Nielsen accounts for a 10% margin of error is maintaining. It certainly isn’t chasing off 200k viewers like super serious wrestling Bryan Danielson has done, forcing the rest of the show to play from behind the 8-ball.
> 
> Maintain the lead-in, and you‘ll not lose nearly as many by the end. Just as I said. Also as I said, trios should never be main eventing. It’s an undercard title, and it’s a natural fit for a show opener. You watched WCW. You know the impact it has to start a show fast and hot.


That 10% works on both sides of the fence though right? It could have been a 10% error in the other direction too. But you only want to account for it one way.


bdon said:


> Also @One Shed , since you are so quick to blame Trios, give me your mental gymnastics excuse for why super serious professional wrestling lost more viewers in the main event than Dance Dance Revolution did the prior week?


MJF and Starks had around 100,000 more viewers than the Flip Flip Repetition main event two weeks prior.

And of course their promo segment from 11/30 INCREASED viewers from Q1.


----------



## One Shed

Hotdiggity11 said:


> It’s ok. I heard the 6 man dance routine is no DQ this week. This Cha Cha Slide is coming with chairs and tables. Bald ref gets a night off as he doesn’t even have to pretend to take 80 seconds to count to 10.


Oh man, No DQ?!? What a completely different and brand new way to do a Hardly Boys match! Finally they will be able to get around those enforced rules they normally have to deal with!


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> That 10% works on both sides of the fence though right? It could have been a 10% error in the other direction too. But you only want to account for it one way.
> 
> MJF and Starks had around 100,000 more viewers than the Flip Flip Repetition main event two weeks prior.
> 
> And of course their promo segment from 11/30 INCREASED viewers from Q1.


You really put your foot in it on that one.

Reposting from earlier: this first graph we see after Bryan Danielson’s “super serious REAL professional wrestling” match ran off 153k viewers, there was only a drop of 85k viewers over an hour and a half of television.










Yet as we see below, The Elite’s “orchestrated dance routine” held 99.3% of the 1m mark lead-in, and MJF and Starks’ “super serious, REAL professional wrestling” lost 106k viewers from the time Dance Dance Revolution ended. Hmmmmm…funny how narratives go, eh?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

One Shed said:


> Oh man, No DQ?!? What a completely different and brand new way to do a Hardly Boys match! Finally they will be able to get around those enforced rules they normally have to deal with!


Bald ref could stay in the ring smoking up Khan’s weed until it’s time to make 3 counts. Great gig if you can get it.


----------



## bdon

Try again, chief.

As I said, if Bryan would hold the fucking lead-in, the trios would be par for the course. You run off 200k viewers in the first 15 minutes, then you’re not getting them back. Bryan should absolutely never be allowed to open Dynamite again.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> You really put your foot in it on that one.
> 
> Reposting from earlier: this first graph we see after Bryan Danielson’s “super serious REAL professional wrestling” match ran off 153k viewers, there was only a drop of 85k viewers over an hour and a half of television.
> 
> 
> View attachment 143202
> 
> Yet as we see below, The Elite’s “orchestrated dance routine” held 99.3% of the 1m mark lead-in, and MJF and Starks’ “super serious, REAL professional wrestling” lost 106k viewers from the time Dance Dance Revolution ended. Hmmmmm…funny how narratives go, eh?
> View attachment 143203


Exactly how is going from 1,044,000 to 997,000 a 0.7% loss? You are just making up math now.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

One Shed said:


> Exactly how is going from 1,044,000 to 997,000 a 0.7% loss? You are just making up math now.


Pesky maff! I just assumed he meant 7% but who knows.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> Exactly how is going from 1,044,000 to 997,000 a 0.7% loss? You are just making up math now.


Ah. I misread the number. I saw 1,004,400. I stand corrected.

But the point remains, they did not lose 150-200k viewers within the first 15 minutes. They are not starting from a position behind the 8-ball.

And the Bucks still lost fewer viewers than MJF/Starks, both from Q2 to the end of their segment AND from the segment prior.


----------



## bdon

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Pesky maff! I just assumed he meant 7% but who knows.


No, these old eyes aren’t what they used to be hah


----------



## Hotdiggity11

bdon said:


> No, these old eyes aren’t what they used to be hah


All good brah.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Ah. I misread the number. I saw 1,004,400. I stand corrected.
> 
> But the point remains, they did not lose 150-200k viewers within the first 15 minutes. They are not starting from a position behind the 8-ball.


I agree. Thanks to a year of awful booking, BD is completely meaningless now and just having heatless matches no one cares about.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> I agree. Thanks to a year of awful booking, BD is completely meaningless now and just having heatless matches no one cares about.


Annnnnnd..?

Dance Dance Revolution held the viewership from the end of the opening act better than “muh super serious wrestling”.

You don’t like the Bucks. Your arguments makes
more sense when you stick to that, because the numbers don’t back up your claims. MJF is a ratings and heat magnet, probably the most interesting wrestler currently, and he still lost more viewers than the Buckaroos did a week prior when you tried to vilify them.


----------



## IronMan8

Hotdiggity11 said:


> I mean, if we’re going by numbers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Dynamite ratings so far in 2022 compared to 2021, and how much viewership downturn coincides with Punk's absence - Pro Wrestling Torch
> 
> 
> AEW Dynamite this week drew 870,000 live and same-night viewers on cable TV (including traditional cable and broadband streaming services that carry TBS). It’s the third straight week Dynamite has drawn under 900,000 viewers. Last [...]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pwtorch.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Numbers are up in 2022 but down in the second half of 2022 compared to the second half of 2021. The decline noticeably started in the aftermath of the All-Out media scrum with the CM Punk-Elite drama.
> 
> But no, you didn’t answer the question. Either directly or indirectly.


You go search for your weekly tree to chop down 

I'll appreciate my view of the forest thanks 

AEW in 2019 - baseline 
AEW in 2020 - increase in ratings 
AEW in 2021 - increase in ratings 
AEW in 2022 - increase in ratings 

WWE in 2000 - peak 
WWE in 2001 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2002 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2003 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2004 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2005 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2006 - decrease in ratings
WWE in 2007 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2008 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2009 - decrease in ratings
WWE in 2010 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2011 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2012 - decrease in ratings
WWE in 2013 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2014 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2015 - decrease in ratings
WWE in 2016 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2017 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2018 - decrease in ratings
WWE in 2019 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2020 - decrease in ratings 
WWE in 2021 - decrease in ratings
WWE in 2022 - decrease in ratings


----------



## Hotdiggity11

IronMan8 said:


> You go search for your weekly tree to chop down
> 
> I'll appreciate my view of the forest thanks
> 
> AEW in 2019 - baseline
> AEW in 2020 - increase in ratings
> AEW in 2021 - increase in ratings
> AEW in 2022 - increase in ratings
> 
> WWE in 2000 - peak
> WWE in 2001 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2002 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2003 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2004 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2005 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2006 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2007 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2008 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2009 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2010 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2011 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2012 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2013 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2014 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2015 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2016 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2017 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2018 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2019 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2020 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2021 - decrease in ratings
> WWE in 2022 - decrease in ratings



Your concession has been accepted.


----------



## Not Lying

@IronMan8 WWE actually increased in 2005 and then again 2006. 😜
HHH’s reign of terror and Bitch ass Lesnar failed to follow the 2 Goats.


----------



## IronMan8

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Your concession has been accepted.


My point is there'll be no excuses about the leftover muffin wrappers because it doesn't matter when the big picture smells like roses and sunshine


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 464,000
18-49: 0.15

Their highest viewership since 10/21 and highest key demo since 10/14. Having Moxley on the last two shows has helped quite a bit.

Rampage finished #15 on cable which must be its highest ranking in a long time.

*Last two months*

12/9: 457,000 / 0.11
12/2: 361,000 / 0.08
11/25: 411,000 / 0.11
11/18: 445,000 / 0.14
11/11: 456,000 / 0.11
11/4: 455,000 / 0.14
10/28: 378,000 / 0.12
10/21: 480,000 / 0.13


----------



## RainmakerV2

I liked Omega as Champion. He's a goof but at least he felt like a big deal. Better than the fuckin plumber at least.


----------



## Geeee

I feel like Rampage was really front-loaded last week and had a lot of filler content. We'll see how that affects next week's rating and whether people felt staying up late was worth it


----------



## kingfunkel

RainmakerV2 said:


> I liked Omega as Champion. He's a goof but at least he felt like a big deal. Better than the fuckin plumber at least.


I liked some parts but overall I disliked it. I liked the idea when he had a match with Sonny Kiss and Calis was doing the commentary on the outside, although it was too competitive. They should have done more of that but not competitively, mainly squash matches.. With the occasional flurry from the underdog. 

Then he fully transformed into a wwe lite goof ball, with bad comedy.


----------



## bdon

kingfunkel said:


> I liked some parts but overall I disliked it. I liked the idea when he had a match with Sonny Kiss and Calis was doing the commentary on the outside, although it was too competitive. They should have done more of that but not competitively, mainly squash matches.. With the occasional flurry from the underdog.
> 
> Then he fully transformed into a wwe lite goof ball, with bad comedy.


You’re thinking of Cody. Squashed Sonny, and the guy left TV for nearly a year. Lol


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Man WWE Tribute to the Troops did better in the ratings than Rampage

According to Wrestlenomics on their Patreon, this year’s Tribute To The Troops aired on Saturday afternoon on Fox with a 2:53 pm start time. It was watched by an average of 612,000 viewers. The show had a 0.17 P18-49 rating, or about 220,000 viewers in the age group.


----------



## 3venflow

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Man WWE Tribute to the Troops did better in the ratings than Rampage
> 
> According to Wrestlenomics on their Patreon, this year’s Tribute To The Troops aired on Saturday afternoon on Fox with a 2:53 pm start time. It was watched by an average of 612,000 viewers. The show had a 0.17 P18-49 rating, or about 220,000 viewers in the age group.


As it should. It's the WWE brand on broadcast TV and was on Saturday afternoon. It was the lowest rating in the 20 years they've been doing it, with last year's doing 2.03m viewers and 0.51 in the 18-49 on Sunday at 5pm.

Rampage is the most DVR'd wrestling show for a reason. Even many of the most hardcore fans won't want to watch wrestling at 10pm on a Friday night. Recent report showed that Rampage adds 55% to its audience through non-same day DVR views.


----------



## IronMan8

3venflow said:


> As it should. It's the WWE brand on broadcast TV and was on Saturday afternoon. It was the lowest rating in the 20 years they've been doing it, with last year's doing 2.03m viewers and 0.51 in the 18-49 on Sunday at 5pm.
> 
> Rampage is the most DVR'd wrestling show for a reason. Even many of the most hardcore fans won't want to watch wrestling at 10pm on a Friday night. Recent report showed that Rampage adds 55% to its audience through non-same day DVR views.


Yeah, Rampage is seen by about 700k each weekend

Nothing wrong with choosing to go out on a Friday night instead of watching wrestling


----------



## Teemu™

IronMan8 said:


> Yeah, Rampage is seen by about 700k each weekend
> 
> Nothing wrong with choosing to go out on a Friday night instead of watching wrestling


Wrestling fans, especially AEW fans, don't go out on Fridays. They don't have friends or social responsibilities.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Teemu™ said:


> Wrestling fans, especially AEW fans, don't go out on Fridays. They don't have friends or social responsibilities.



Pandemic and lockdowns in 2020 and Dubbalos were asking “What’s changed?”


----------



## IronMan8

Teemu™ said:


> Wrestling fans, especially AEW fans, don't go out on Fridays. They don't have friends or social responsibilities.


Water is dry 

and sugar is spice

Clap your thighs

and stamp your catheter device


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I'm a pessimistat heart so I expect the number to be lower than last week.Would love to be wronng though.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE said:


> I'm a pessimistat heart so I expect the number to be lower than last week.Would love to be wronng though.


i would like it to be 950

so that the haters can say ‘not a milli’

and the defenders can say ‘dats a good number’

and all of us know in our hearts that none of us know what is actually going on 🤣


----------



## Hotdiggity11

A low rating means less Rick Ross. Which would probably be a blessing.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i would like it to be 950
> 
> so that the haters can say ‘not a milli’
> 
> and the defenders can say ‘dats a good number’
> 
> and all of us know in our hearts that none of us know what is actually going on 🤣


I'm not sure why so many people particularly the detractors have latched on to a million viewers as benchmark for whether or not AEW is successful.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606033714647015448


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Rick “+7k” Ross


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 957,000
18-49: 0.30

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

12/14: 950,000 / 0.33
12/7: 840,000 / 0.29
11/30: 870,000 / 0.26
11/23: 880,000 / 0.32
11/16: 818,000 / 0.28
11/9: 930,000 / 0.32
11/2: 911,000 / 0.29
10/26: 997,000 / 0.31


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Better than I expected. Demo down bit but still at .30. Perhaps the series of good Dyanmites has helped them stabilize their ratings. Overall a good rating for them.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

‘Dats a good number‘


----------



## Hotdiggity11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ‘Dats a good number‘


Oh come on, you were supposed to be DC’s successor. We need more spunk than that. 😟


----------



## 3venflow

Here's the YoY. Last year's equivalent show had painted Punk, Sting & Darby vs. MJF & FTR, Cole vs. OC and Ruby vs. Nyla in the TBS tournament semis. Also the only time they have done a million total viewers in December.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Oh come on, you were supposed to be DC’s successor. We need more spunk than that. 😟


follow me round back, i’ll give ya all the spunk i can muster


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Oh come on, you were supposed to be DC’s successor. We need more spunk than that. 😟


Added a little razzle dazzle with a eye roll for you sir


----------



## Hotdiggity11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> follow me round back, i’ll give ya all the spunk i can muster


You naughty boy.





BestInTheWorld312 said:


> Added a little razzle dazzle with a eye roll for you sir



You truly chose an appropriate username!


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8




----------



## 3venflow

Here's the other version:


----------



## The Boy Wonder




----------



## The Boy Wonder

Damn. Thurston has all three of us signed up!


----------



## The real Axel

People are sick of the clowns versus the guys in the gimp masks methinks.


----------



## IronMan8

AEW's demo is slightly down, but it's actually a good thing because the demo is skewing _younger_ than last year overall

Basically, a bunch of 40-45yo men followed Punk in and out - they've been replaced by 12-34yos

And Saraya + Acclaimed have massively boosted the teenage girl demo

Younger overall demo with more girls watching, and less 45yo men... that's a win


----------



## Kabraxal

The Elite Rating Killers. 

How much more evidence is needed that they aren’t a draw?


----------



## -YouCantSeeMe-

Kabraxal said:


> The Elite Rating Killers.
> 
> How much more evidence is needed that they aren’t a draw?


Yeah especially doing a best of 7. I don't think that was a great idea. Also I don't think people are really invested in the trios titles, I also think the backstage drama stuff between them and Punk soured a lot of fans on liking them. Kenny was much better doing his own thing with Callis.


----------



## IronMan8

The Elite are statistically adequate for their time slot based on recent history, since 2% difference is statistically insignificant


----------



## Teemu™

Not a milli.


----------



## kingfunkel

Wow top of the 9 o'clock hour with Moxley on TV gained nothing and towards the end the women gained back 100k.
They really kicked themselves in the leg having a random best of 7 series... For no apparent reason.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

kingfunkel said:


> Wow top of the 9 o'clock hour with Moxley on TV gained nothing and towards the end the women gained back 100k.
> They really kicked themselves in the leg having a random best of 7 series... For no apparent reason.


The women’s match had the lowest quarter in viewership and demo on the show. Actually laughed that they gave a number for a one minute overrun. The demo crashed from that match.

For all the people that thought the Trios, a fat mid-40s rapper, and a “banger” women’s match would draw? My condolences.


----------



## midgetlover69

Man I tried watching aew for the 1st time in months... I was watching something on tv so I decided to switch to aew during the break and its the trios bullshit loool. Turned it off immediately


----------



## Hotdiggity11




----------



## Kishido

Awesome numbers because there are reasons. 

Can't wait for the awesome Elite winning against PAC and Co after all to celebrate themselves. EVPs for life


----------



## 3venflow

Kabraxal said:


> The Elite Rating Killers.
> 
> How much more evidence is needed that they aren’t a draw?


Q1 to Q2 drops are evidence of nothing since they happen something like 80% of the time unless it's a premium match and even some of those have lost a little bit.

ie.










The Elite, especially Omega, have done plenty of positive ratings throughout AEW's history, mainly in their natural divisions. In TK's words, Kenny was 'box office' on top. Kenny vs. Danielson was one of AEW's most successful matches ever in terms of attendance, ratings and general interest. The P18-49 rating Danielson vs. Omega peaked at was on par with what Smackdown often does on free TV.


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> Q1 to Q2 drops are evidence of nothing since they happen something like 80% of the time unless it's a premium match and even some of those have lost a little bit.
> 
> ie.
> 
> View attachment 144545
> 
> 
> The Elite, especially Omega, have done plenty of positive ratings throughout AEW's history, mainly in their natural divisions. In TK's words, Kenny was 'box office' on top. Kenny vs. Danielson was one of AEW's most successful matches ever in terms of attendance, ratings and general interest. The P18-49 rating Danielson vs. Omega peaked at was on par with what Smackdown often does on free TV.
> 
> View attachment 144544


Wow. Didn’t realize even Punk lost viewers like that from Q1 to Q2. It might be time to accept that AEW is just, I dunno, NOT booked well at all for television purposes? Like I’ve been saying all along..?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

3venflow said:


> Q1 to Q2 drops are evidence of nothing since they happen something like 80% of the time unless it's a premium match and even some of those have lost a little bit.
> 
> ie.
> 
> View attachment 144545
> 
> 
> The Elite, especially Omega, have done plenty of positive ratings throughout AEW's history, mainly in their natural divisions. In TK's words, Kenny was 'box office' on top. Kenny vs. Danielson was one of AEW's most successful matches ever in terms of attendance, ratings and general interest. The P18-49 rating Danielson vs. Omega peaked at was on par with what Smackdown often does on free TV.
> 
> View attachment 144544




Just seeing the type of numbers Dynamite got back in September 2021 compared to now is depressing. 1.19m is pretty much what they often start out with nowadays lol.


----------



## 3venflow

What happens when you branch out and run new markets.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606352893916827648
Some overseas TV news.

_The Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that AEW and DAZN have a new business deal and it will be announced some time after the holidays. DAZN recently released information on the combat sports they will offer in 2023 and an AEW logo was included. Both sides have an agreement to keep the deal a secret for the time being.

However, AEW already does air on DAZN in some countries. Exact details are unknown, but it’s believed that AEW will air on DAZN in all countries where DAZN is available, except where AEW already has a deal. It’s known if Japan will be included, as AEW does stream on New Japan World. The biggest countries at the moment appear to be Spain and Brazil. The deal would only be for AEW shows.

It was noted this is not the reason that AEW stopped airing on Space in Latin America, as they are working on a different deal or Mexico, Central and much of South America._


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> What happens when you branch out and run new markets.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606352893916827648
> Some overseas TV news.
> 
> _The Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that AEW and DAZN have a new business deal and it will be announced some time after the holidays. DAZN recently released information on the combat sports they will offer in 2023 and an AEW logo was included. Both sides have an agreement to keep the deal a secret for the time being.
> 
> However, AEW already does air on DAZN in some countries. Exact details are unknown, but it’s believed that AEW will air on DAZN in all countries where DAZN is available, except where AEW already has a deal. It’s known if Japan will be included, as AEW does stream on New Japan World. The biggest countries at the moment appear to be Spain and Brazil. The deal would only be for AEW shows.
> 
> It was noted this is not the reason that AEW stopped airing on Space in Latin America, as they are working on a different deal or Mexico, Central and much of South America._


G R O W T H

imagine still being stuck in the 90s and thinking USA Nielson cable numbers are the only measurement of growth

couldn’t be me


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

LifeInCattleClass said:


> G R O W T H
> 
> imagine still being stuck in the 90s and thinking USA Nielson cable numbers are the only measurement of growth
> 
> couldn’t be me


They aren't the only measure but when a vast majority of a promotion's income relies upon a US TV deal, Nielsen data as wildly flawed as it is unfortunately still carries a lot of weight.

Not suggesting this is the problem with AEW(they are doing absolutely fine with their TV numbers) but as a rule TV partners don't care if the arena is filled or not, they care about eyes on the TV. Shit numbers lead to no TV deal which leads to significantly less money coming in which leads to a laundry list of other problems.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

MonkasaurusRex said:


> They aren't the only measure but when a vast majority of a promotion's income relies upon a US TV deal, Nielsen data as wildly flawed as it is unfortunately still carries a lot of weight.
> 
> Not suggesting this is the problem with AEW(they are doing absolutely fine with their TV numbers) but as a rule TV partners don't care if the arena is filled or not, they care about eyes on the TV. Shit numbers lead to no TV deal which leads to significantly less money coming in which leads to a laundry list of other problems.


If it’s anything like WWE, the shows themselves don’t make that much money on average. Costs to rent out these event centers and arenas continually go up while ticket prices aren’t keeping up.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Hotdiggity11 said:


> If it’s anything like WWE, the shows themselves don’t make that much money on average. Costs to rent out these event centers and arenas continually go up while ticket prices aren’t keeping up.


 Exactly.

TV and TV money is how a wrestling company the size of AEW stays afloat and relevant.


----------



## Shaz Cena

IronMan8 said:


> The Elite are statistically adequate for their time slot based on recent history, since 2% difference is statistically insignificant


This guy DC but from Marvel.


----------



## 3venflow

Hotdiggity11 said:


> If it’s anything like WWE, the shows themselves don’t make that much money on average. Costs to rent out these event centers and arenas continually go up while ticket prices aren’t keeping up.


WWE shows make money in general, that's why they run so damn many, often two on the same day. They cancel some occasionally when ticket sales most likely fall below the break-even line, but that's not common. WWE is a 'bottom line' organization where revenue is everything, and they registered large profits from live events on their latest report (for the nine months ending September 2022, $99.3 net revenue and $26.4m Adjusted OIBDA for live events).

AEW put their ticket prices up quite a lot for many events this year, which is why they've done all their record gates in 2022. All Out 2021 (10,164 tickets sold) and All Out 2022 (10,014 tickets sold) were held at the same arena. All Out 2021 did $700,000 in gate revenue, All Out 2022 did over $1,000,000 in gate revenue.

Per TK, he and Jeff Jarrett are looking at adding live events/house shows in 2023. I doubt they'd be doing that if live events weren't a good source of revenue. Tony Khan said in a recent interview that the reason he'd run the same area of the USA so much is because it was cost effective and had given AEW good revenue streams. He also said he got some great deals booking buildings for double or triple shows, like Hoffman Estates which they ran three separate shows at in a matter of days in September (Dynamite, Rampage, All Out).

TV is definitely the number one revenue source, but don't discount the other stuff. Forbidden Door made around $6m through ticket sales, PPV buys and merchandise. TK said AEW will gross over $100m in 2022 (Wrestlenomics' 2021 estimate for AEW was $84m), $43.75m of that comes from the TV deal.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

3venflow said:


> WWE shows make money in general, that's why they run so damn many, often two on the same day. They cancel some occasionally when ticket sales most likely fall below the break-even line, but that's not common. WWE is a 'bottom line' organization where revenue is everything, and they registered large profits from live events on their latest report (for the nine months ending September 2022, $99.3 net revenue and $26.4m Adjusted OIBDA for live events).
> 
> AEW put their ticket prices up quite a lot for many events this year, which is why they've done all their record gates in 2022. All Out 2021 (10,164 tickets sold) and All Out 2022 (10,014 tickets sold) were held at the same arena. All Out 2021 did $700,000 in gate revenue, All Out 2022 did over $1,000,000 in gate revenue.
> 
> Per TK, he and Jeff Jarrett are looking at adding live events/house shows in 2023. I doubt they'd be doing that if live events weren't a good source of revenue. Tony Khan said in a recent interview that the reason he'd run the same area of the USA so much is because it was cost effective and had given AEW good revenue streams. He also said he got some great deals booking buildings for double or triple shows, like Hoffman Estates which they ran three separate shows at in a matter of days in September (Dynamite, Rampage, All Out).
> 
> TV is definitely the number one revenue source, but don't discount the other stuff. Forbidden Door made around $6m through ticket sales, PPV buys and merchandise. TK said AEW will gross over $100m in 2022 (Wrestlenomics' 2021 estimate for AEW was $84m), $43.75m of that comes from the TV deal.


You’re talking about revenue, brah. We’re talking about profit. These arenas don’t let WWE and AEW run shows out of the kindness of their hearts.

The only data you did mention regarding net revenue (WWE $99.3 net revenue and $26.4m Adjusted OIBDA for live events through three quarters) is a small portion of their overall profit for the year. WWE makes the overwhelming amount of their money through media rights.



https://corporate.wwe.com/~/media/Files/W/WWE/press-releases/2022/q3-2022-earnings-pr.pdf



Pages 3-4

Also keep in mind a large chunk of the overall live event profit is coming from a few Saudi shows they do a year and a few other major shows. For the 3rd Quarter, the report even mentions they primarily benefited from Clash At the Castle, another overseas live event.


WWE isn’t driven by the constant touring of events anymore and AEW doesn’t even do house show loops. It’s no longer the means in which big wrestling companies survive. The money WWE makes from putting on shows nowadays (Outside of a few domestic/international PLEs and the shows they HAVE to do to meet media rights obligations) are negligible nowadays to the overall business model.


----------



## hybrid92_

good number this week. maintained same rating as last week and didn't lost a lot of viewers. still need to be hitting a million viewers every week though.


----------



## Teemu™

hybrid92_ said:


> good number this week. maintained same rating as last week and didn't lost a lot of viewers. still need to be hitting a million viewers every week though.


WWE gets two million, so that should be the goal. Anything else is a failure. I don't see why AEW can't hit WWE's numbers, the shows are pretty equal. Boring, dumb pro wrestling trash. The same tropes, same angles, same everything.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

3venflow said:


> WWE shows make money in general, that's why they run so damn many, often two on the same day. They cancel some occasionally when ticket sales most likely fall below the break-even line, but that's not common. WWE is a 'bottom line' organization where revenue is everything, and they registered large profits from live events on their latest report (for the nine months ending September 2022, $99.3 net revenue and $26.4m Adjusted OIBDA for live events).
> 
> AEW put their ticket prices up quite a lot for many events this year, which is why they've done all their record gates in 2022. All Out 2021 (10,164 tickets sold) and All Out 2022 (10,014 tickets sold) were held at the same arena. All Out 2021 did $700,000 in gate revenue, All Out 2022 did over $1,000,000 in gate revenue.
> 
> Per TK, he and Jeff Jarrett are looking at adding live events/house shows in 2023. I doubt they'd be doing that if live events weren't a good source of revenue. Tony Khan said in a recent interview that the reason he'd run the same area of the USA so much is because it was cost effective and had given AEW good revenue streams. He also said he got some great deals booking buildings for double or triple shows, like Hoffman Estates which they ran three separate shows at in a matter of days in September (Dynamite, Rampage, All Out).
> 
> TV is definitely the number one revenue source, but don't discount the other stuff. Forbidden Door made around $6m through ticket sales, PPV buys and merchandise. TK said AEW will gross over $100m in 2022 (Wrestlenomics' 2021 estimate for AEW was $84m), $43.75m of that comes from the TV deal.


TV drives a majority of the other aspects of the business. PPV buys, merchandise, attendance, even the ability to charge a premium for tickets. Take TV away and brand awareness takes a significant hit and that affects every aspect of their business beyond the $44m dollars they get from their deal.

Also, AEW's gross revenue means jack shit without knowing their operating costs. $100m coming is meaningless if $150m is going out.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

MonkasaurusRex said:


> They aren't the only measure but when a vast majority of a promotion's income relies upon a US TV deal, Nielsen data as wildly flawed as it is unfortunately still carries a lot of weight.
> 
> Not suggesting this is the problem with AEW(they are doing absolutely fine with their TV numbers) but as a rule TV partners don't care if the arena is filled or not, they care about eyes on the TV. Shit numbers lead to no TV deal which leads to significantly less money coming in which leads to a laundry list of other problems.


its half their revenue - and the revenue is not just for cable us / its for the tnt / tbs streaming stuff too

but even so - growth is growth - wether is 1% or 10% in supplementary places

as long as they can keep their core stable (US / cable) - then all else is money for jam


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

MonkasaurusRex said:


> TV drives a majority of the other aspects of the business. PPV buys, merchandise, attendance, even the ability to charge a premium for tickets. Take TV away and brand awareness takes a significant hit and that affects every aspect of their business beyond the $44m dollars they get from their deal.
> 
> Also, AEW's gross revenue means jack shit without knowing their operating costs. $100m coming is meaningless if $150m is going out.


if this was 100% true, All In would not have sold 10k tix and made 60k ppv sales

the truth is somewhere in the middle - tv helps immensely/ but it is not a requirement for their ultimate survival

survival at the current scale yes, survival as a company, no


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 566,000
18-49: 0.18

#5 on cable. Highest viewership since April 6th, joint highest key demo since April 22nd.

*Last two months*

12/16: 464,000 / 0.15
12/9: 457,000 / 0.11
12/2: 361,000 / 0.08
11/25: 411,000 / 0.11
11/18: 445,000 / 0.14
11/11: 456,000 / 0.11
11/4: 455,000 / 0.14
10/28: 378,000 / 0.12


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Wow good numbers for Rampage


----------



## omaroo

Well that is shocking lol

A very average episode of Rampage


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

I’m curious to see the quarter hours for this one


----------



## CovidFan

Damn that's good shit


----------



## Saintpat

What spiked the rating?

I’ll spell it out for ya:

J-E-Double F J-A-Double R-E-Double T


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Rampage does what for them has to be a great rating. Nice to see some renewed interest in it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

weird, was a very middle-of-the-road average Rampage


----------



## Cydius

You know how good the ratings are when this topic stays very calm.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost




----------



## Geeee

Kenny's Ghost said:


>


Jarrett and Wardlow should feud over whose world it is


----------



## 3venflow

TK to TV Insider:

_"We’ve grown year-over-year. AEW Dynamite is up 9% in total audience, 4% in the 18-49 demo, and 25 percent in viewers aged 18-34. It’s tremendous to see those gains in today’s day and age. These are really good signs for our company."_

I think this is a little skewed due to the preemptions being less crippling than last year, but when selling his product to the network for TV rights, it'll look impressive.

TNT and TBS (and USA Network, home of RAW) have gone from being in 91 million homes to 74 million homes in the past couple of years. So in that kind of climate (where most shows are losing viewers), any sort of positive data, even if conveniently ignoring a few variables, looks good.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Ratings for Dynamite tonight better be in the 1 million range because Raw with a “best of raw 2022” did 1,075,000 viewers with a 0.27 in the 18-49 demo. They should be embarrassed if they at least don’t get in the 1 million range(I think they will do fine in the demo)


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Kenny's Ghost said:


>


It took 35 or so years but Jeffrey Jarrett finally drawing those dimes.
😉



Geeee said:


> Jarrett and Wardlow should feud over whose world it is



Shiet, Wardlow won’t have to worry about that after getting choked out and castrated last night.


----------



## 3venflow

Sean Ross Sapp believes AEW's next TV deal with WBD will see them move to four hours of weekly TV with Rampage moving timeslot.

A two-hour Rampage is only going to work if it airs in primetime, otherwise the motivation won't be there to make it on par with Dynamite as there's a much lower ceiling when it airs in the dead of the night.

Tuesday opposite NXT at 8pm or Thursday at 8pm would be my picks. Monday (RAW), Wednesday (Dynamite) and Friday (Smackdown) primetime slots are out of the question. There's the weekend option too, but do as many people watch TV on weekends?

The alternative is a three-hour Dynamite and one-hour Rampage in a better timeslot.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Sean Ross Sapp believes AEW's next TV deal with WBD will see them move to four hours of weekly TV with Rampage moving timeslot.
> 
> A two-hour Rampage is only going to work if it airs in primetime, otherwise the motivation won't be there to make it on par with Dynamite as there's a much lower ceiling when it airs in the dead of the night.
> 
> Tuesday opposite NXT at 8pm or Thursday at 8pm would be my picks. Monday (RAW), Wednesday (Dynamite) and Friday (Smackdown) primetime slots are out of the question. There's the weekend option too, but do as many people watch TV on weekends?
> 
> The alternative is a three-hour Dynamite and one-hour Rampage in a better timeslot.


3 hr dynamite would be 1000% the wrong way


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Just put Rampage on Thursday from 8-10 if that slot is available. It really won’t matter if it’s back to back days. It’ll beat the shit out of the Friday death slot.


----------



## 3venflow

Thursday sounds ideal because it means AEW can wrap up their TV over two days if they run separate events for Dynamite and Rampage rather than same-night tapings. That would also mean the schedule is still relaxed for wrestlers.

IMPACT is on Thursday nights but doesn't present any real threat to the audience that a WWE show might on Tuesday (Rampage would beat NXT in the key demo H2H on Tuesdays, viewership might be close though).


----------



## omaroo

Rampage being 2 hours and being in prime time is an absolute must if theres any chance at all left of making it as important as dynamite.

Thursaday or Saturday are best options but I have no idea how good Saturday primetime would be for them in terms of viewership.

Being live nearly every week for Rampage would need to happen also to give the unpredicability factor to the show.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I think somehow Fridays work TBH

it is a nice lead-in to the weekend and the crowds seem to love the live Rampages / party atmosphere

just move it to 8 - who cares if its against Smackdown - it will never beat it since its on Fox


----------



## omaroo

I think Dark shows need major revamp also.

Combine both dark shows into one have it as 2 hours but with its own storylines and belts and no contination to Dynamite and rampage.

Maybe WBD could move it one of the lesser networks also. Could work if done right.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

omaroo said:


> I think Dark shows need major revamp also.
> 
> Combine both dark shows into one have it as 2 hours but with its own storylines and belts and no contination to Dynamite and rampage.
> 
> Maybe WBD could move it one of the lesser networks also. Could work if done right.


i know TK doesn’t want to - but making DARK the rebranded ROH is really the way to go


----------



## Hotdiggity11

LICC wearing out that refresh button waiting for dem ratings to hit.


----------



## omaroo

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i know TK doesn’t want to - but making DARK the rebranded ROH is really the way to go


Not sure about that.

As ROH can still be worthwhile on Honor club and may down the line get some sort of TV deal.

Think Dark could be more than it is overall. Having two dark shows is silly and doesnt make sense to me.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hotdiggity11 said:


> LICC wearing out that refresh button waiting for dem ratings to hit.


lol, its gonna be 920k mate - and the sky will fall for the critics and the Dubfans will go ‘not a bad number’

and the hyperbole will start from all sides xD

i’ve been ‘over’ ratings for ages now - these days i’ll just play it up if there is a big number, but its tongue-in-cheek anyway


----------



## Prized Fighter

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, its gonna be 920k mate - and the sky will fall for the critics and the Dubfans will go ‘not a bad number’
> 
> and the hyperbole will start from all sides xD
> 
> i’ve been ‘over’ ratings for ages now - these days i’ll just play it up if there is a big number, but its tongue-in-cheek anyway


You're missing the added flavor of Dynamite beating Raw in the demo this week. That is going to lead to some sweet tribal debate.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prized Fighter said:


> You're missing the added flavor of Dynamite beating Raw in the demo this week. That is going to lead to some sweet tribal debate.


the excuses are baked in anyway - its a ‘rerun with no new content’

right @Showstopper ? 

even so, Dynamite won’t beat raw, but it will beat its 3rd hour of 870k


----------



## Prized Fighter

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the excuses are baked in anyway - its a ‘rerun with no new content’
> 
> right @Showstopper ?
> 
> even so, Dynamite won’t beat raw, but it will beat its 3rd hour of 870k


I was also told by the internet that Raw was the first time Cody spoke since his injury. AEW > Cody Rhodes. It is just science.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the excuses are baked in anyway - its a ‘rerun with no new content’
> 
> right @Showstopper ?
> 
> even so, Dynamite won’t beat raw, but it will beat its 3rd hour of 870k


 

A live Dynamite should be able to beat a Recap show of stuff we just saw. Couple that with AEW's farrrrr superior product and I don't see the problem...?


----------



## bdon

It will have to be either Tuesday or Saturday. Warner is not going to risk competing with themselves for ratings between NBA and wrestling.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Duplicate post


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Showstopper said:


> A live Dynamite should be able to beat a Recap show of stuff we just saw. Couple that with AEW's farrrrr superior product and I don't see the problem...?


its art bro, you won’t get it

you are not attuned to our higher plane of being which is ‘flippy wrestling over all’


----------



## Top bins

I don't think it will be a Thursday if they get another hour. As they would compete against the NFL something Khan doesn't want to do. 

Tuesday would be the logical move against NXT possibly.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the excuses are baked in anyway - its a ‘rerun with no new content’
> 
> right @Showstopper ?
> 
> even so, Dynamite won’t beat raw, but it will beat its 3rd hour of 870k





This is very low energy Dubbalosplaining. Many of us expected better from DC's successor.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

AEW shills have thrown in the towel...Until the big rating comes again lmao


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Top bins said:


> I don't think it will be a Thursday if they get another hour. As they would compete against the NFL something Khan doesn't want to do.
> 
> Tuesday would be the logical move against NXT possibly.




TNT is doing a lot of their NBA games on Tuesdays now. Seems unlikely they are gonna have two different sports-based events on their programming competing against each other for like 5 months out of the year.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Hotdiggity11 said:


> TNT is doing a lot of their NBA games on Tuesdays now. Seems unlikely they are gonna have two different sports-based events on their programming competing against each other for like 5 months out of the year.


Most likely they keep it on Friday and move the show to 9 pm. A one hour cross over with Smackdown isn't going to kill the ratings. It essentially gives one hour of channel flipping and Smackdown becomes a lead into the 2nd hour of Rampage for the people that watch both.


----------



## Top bins

Hotdiggity11 said:


> TNT is doing a lot of their NBA games on Tuesdays now. Seems unlikely they are gonna have two different sports-based events on their programming competing against each other for like 5 months out of the year.


Ah I get you! Do they no longer do the double header on Thursdays either? With my man Chuck? 

I watch the NBA on sky sports and their coverage is shit. 

Would Khan compete against the NFL?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Top bins said:


> Ah I get you! Do they no longer do the double header on Thursdays either? With my man Chuck?
> 
> I watch the NBA on sky sports and their coverage is shit.
> 
> Would Khan compete against the NFL?



From my understanding, they aren't doing the usual Thursday doubleheader during the NFL season. I think it's supposed to return around mid-January. Meanwhile the Tuesday games are the entire season.


Think Tuesdays will have a B-Crew while Thursdays are your usual Shaq/Ernie/Chuck/etc crew once that starts.


----------



## IronMan8

Raw's legendary 23-year unbeaten streak is on the line with the hour 3 number of 852,000

Nobody has beaten Raw for any reason in 23 years... 

How ironic if Cody's return is _the_ moment that costs WWE their incredible streak?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

IronMan8 said:


> Raw's legendary 23-year unbeaten streak is on the line with the hour 3 number of 852,000
> 
> Nobody has beaten Raw for any reason in 23 years...
> 
> How ironic if Cody's return is _the_ moment that costs WWE their incredible streak?


Not feeling confident a LIVE Dynamite can beat a 3 hour Recap show against the NFL? Come on guy. Have some more self-confidence!


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewers: 876,000
18-49: 0.28

#5 on cable

*Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*

12/21: 957,000 / 0.30
12/14: 950,000 / 0.33
12/7: 840,000 / 0.29
11/30: 870,000 / 0.26
11/23: 880,000 / 0.32
11/16: 818,000 / 0.28
11/9: 930,000 / 0.32
11/2: 911,000 / 0.29


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

HAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RAW IS RECAP RULES THE WRESTLING WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Dynamite barely beat the 3rd hour of WWE Recap RAW. 

Huge win. Tons of progress.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite*
> 
> Viewers: 876,000
> 18-49: 0.28
> 
> #5 on cable
> 
> *Last two months (viewers / 18-49)*
> 
> 12/21: 957,000 / 0.30
> 12/14: 950,000 / 0.33
> 12/7: 840,000 / 0.29
> 11/30: 870,000 / 0.26
> 11/23: 880,000 / 0.32
> 11/16: 818,000 / 0.28
> 11/9: 930,000 / 0.32
> 11/2: 911,000 / 0.29


----------



## IronMan8

AEW beat RAW's 3rd hour!

Raw's 23-year unbeaten streak is over!

Factual evidence of AEW's rise


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

It's a party! @LifeInCattleClass ; my fren. Where are you??


----------



## 3venflow

It beat RAW in the default Nielsen metric (18-49), but let's not forget that was a Best Of show. In 2021, AEW beat them 'for real', but not since then.

Only-E-Fans in this thread are strange people though.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Jim might be onto something to get these guys on the show for a boost!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

3venflow said:


> It beat RAW in the default Nielsen metric (18-49), but let's not forget that was a Best Of show. In 2021, AEW beat them 'for real', but not since then.
> 
> Only-E-Fans in this thread are strange people though.


Hey, you got friends in this thread that troll in other ratings threads. Only returning the favor. Don't want none, don't come get some!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Showstopper said:


> HAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> RAW IS RECAP RULES THE WRESTLING WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


dammit! I knew i should’ve skipped Wed and caught that recap!


----------



## IronMan8

Showstopper said:


> HAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> RAW IS RECAP RULES THE WRESTLING WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


We've still got hope - Rampage was taped this week!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

BTW just like the other threads during the week, it's just ball-busting. Nothing more. Keep on rockin', fellers.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The only thing I can surmise from this rating is RAW HOUR 3 in da mud.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dammit! I knew i should’ve skipped Wed and caught that recap!



Sami Zayn gonna have great promos with Matthew Jeffrey Frederick in a few years. Can't wait.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE said:


> The only thing I can surmise from this rating is RAW HOUR 3 in da mud.




HHH's RAW is in shambles and needs a savior.


----------



## Christopher Near

A tv special too wow lol


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Hotdiggity11 said:


> HHH's RAW is in shambles and needs a savior.


Live look at Papa Haitch.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

Ahahahahahahahahahah


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Showstopper said:


> BTW just like the other threads during the week, it's just ball-busting. Nothing more. Keep on rockin', fellers.


Always and it's one of the few things we got left to do around this forum that is just for some jokes and fun 

On a serious note it just goes to show you if they put a decent card they can pull a decent rating...This show was mid from the start and they honestly should've had death triangle pull off the win. That would've been more surprising than anything else happening now


----------



## CovidFan

Sad to see the show dip below 900k. shrug



BestInTheWorld312 said:


> they honestly should've had death triangle pull off the win. That would've been more surprising than anything else happening now


I think this would've been a great swerve if they were able to pull it off. But they booked themselves into a corner by putting match seven in LA. I was excited for this bo7 at the outset but now nearing the end, I think it was a dumb idea and it really doesn't feel dramatic, at all. Just a long wait until the match that really matters in LA.


----------



## 3venflow

This is probably the most 'in context' YoY data to look at, since it excludes the preemptions (which were worse in 2021 than 2022). With that in mind, I'm surprised 2022 had more average viewers than 2021 minus preemptions. I would've guessed the opposite as last year they had all the surprises and big names coming in. Not so surprised about the 18-49.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608603548140589057


----------



## Joe Gill

3venflow said:


> This is probably the most 'in context' YoY data to look at, since it excludes the preemptions (which were worse in 2021 than 2022). With that in mind, I'm surprised 2022 had more average viewers than 2021 minus preemptions. I would've guessed the opposite as last year they had all the surprises and big names coming in. Not so surprised about the 18-49.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608603548140589057


2022 was a perfect storm for aew when comparing it to previous years..... moved to tbs in january 2022: excellent lead in programming with big bang theory, consistent wednesday timeslot with minimal interruptions, no direct competition from nxt, no covid pre taped shows, no empty arenas..... warner handed tk a perfect timeslot on a silver platter.... will be real interesting to compare 2023 ratings to 2022 ratings since all the external factors will be identical for the first time in dynamite history.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

3venflow said:


> This is probably the most 'in context' YoY data to look at, since it excludes the preemptions (which were worse in 2021 than 2022). With that in mind, I'm surprised 2022 had more average viewers than 2021 minus preemptions. I would've guessed the opposite as last year they had all the surprises and big names coming in. Not so surprised about the 18-49.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608603548140589057


A lot of the growth is from the beginning of the year though. The ratings have noticeably dipped from the first quarter in 2022 except for one spike.


----------



## Joe Gill

my prediction is dynamite will average around 840k for next year....it will start around 900k but dip to below 800 by december 2023


----------



## 3venflow

Joe Gill said:


> 2022 was a perfect storm for aew when comparing it to previous years..... moved to tbs in january 2022: excellent lead in programming with big bang theory, consistent wednesday timeslot with minimal interruptions, no direct competition from nxt, no covid pre taped shows, no empty arenas..... warner handed tk a perfect timeslot on a silver platter.... will be real interesting to compare 2023 ratings to 2022 ratings since all the external factors will be identical for the first time in dynamite history.


I'd expect next year's to go down as well as WWE's, though WWE has a loyal 50+ audience who still consume traditional TV more than the younguns and that props up their total viewership numbers. AEW has swam against the tide that is the TV industry for a long time but unless you run into a brand new generation of fans and preferably have a streaming presence too, you're not making any major gains on cable nowadays. Raw, Dynamite and Rampage are available in 74 million homes compared to 91 million a couple of years ago. I think if someone did a study, they'd find at least 90% of shows on TV have lost viewers in the past three years.


----------



## Itiswhatitis

People don't want to see Elite vs Triangle which are a death to the Ratings. There you go


----------



## CovidFan

3venflow said:


> This is probably the most 'in context' YoY data to look at, since it excludes the preemptions (which were worse in 2021 than 2022). With that in mind, I'm surprised 2022 had more average viewers than 2021 minus preemptions.


If it were judged in even more context there'd be a huge asterisk because it'd be down yoy considering the Covid restrictions (and thus less appealing television) until they went on the road again in July.


----------



## Itiswhatitis

IronMan8 said:


> AEW beat RAW's 3rd hour!
> 
> Raw's 23-year unbeaten streak is over!
> 
> Factual evidence of AEW's rise


How pathetic it must be for Khan to realize Raw which was a recap basically killed his live product with his toy bucks 😂


----------



## 3venflow

CovidFan said:


> If it were judged in even more context there'd be a huge asterisk because it'd be down yoy considering the Covid restrictions (and thus less appealing television) until they went on the road again in July.


But then there's the relentless cord-cutting and TBS/TNT/USA/FOX/most every top channel being viewed by fewer people that should also play into the context, surely?

TBS viewership down 15% in 2022
TNT viewership down 12% in 2022
USA viewership down 13% in 2022
FOX viewership down 14% in 2022

The default now should be that most shows are losing viewers and if they're not, they're bucking the trend.

The list is below. Of the top 30 channels, only Paramount gained viewers in 2022. The rest lost or stayed even. And this is an ongoing thing so I don't know how people expect wrestling or anything to have any major gains on traditional TV.









Most-Watched Television Networks: Ranking 2022’s Winners and Losers


There may come a time when it just doesn’t make sense to rank the broadcast and cable networks anymore. Actually, that time is probably already here, with most viewing now taking place via streamin…




variety.com


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Itiswhatitis said:


> People don't want to see Elite vs Triangle which are a death to the Ratings. There you go



I intentionally change the channel until it’s over in protest. Just the same obnoxious crap slightly repackaged.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SCJerk/comments/zyjlr2


----------



## CovidFan

3venflow said:


> But then there's the relentless cord-cutting and TBS/TNT/USA/FOX/most every top channel being viewed by fewer people that should also play into the context, surely?


For sure. We'll obviously not ever get full context.


----------



## Saintpat

Bucks changing finisher name to the Neilson Driver.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Saintpat said:


> Bucks changing finisher name to the Neilson Driver.


I laughed to hard at this lmfao


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Saintpat said:


> Bucks changing finisher name to the Neilson Driver.


No one kicks out of the Nielson Diver.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Odd rating, since last couple weeks have been good and all the shows including this week have been good also. Oh well, hopefully next week is higher given the new set tease and such.


----------



## bdon

Dr. Middy said:


> Odd rating, since last couple weeks have been good and all the shows including this week have been good also. Oh well, hopefully next week is higher given the new set tease and such.


WWE made the right call going with just a recap show.

Nobody wants to sit around a TV set during the holidays. I know I didn’t. I watched the Elite and DT match, then I went back to playing race cars with my son between astronomy stuff with our oldest and coloring with the middle child. And loving on my pregnant wife.

Who wastes a week of kids being out of school by sitting on the couch staring at a boob tube?


----------



## IronMan8

3venflow said:


> This is probably the most 'in context' YoY data to look at, since it excludes the preemptions (which were worse in 2021 than 2022). With that in mind, I'm surprised 2022 had more average viewers than 2021 minus preemptions. I would've guessed the opposite as last year they had all the surprises and big names coming in. Not so surprised about the 18-49.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608603548140589057


The demo is split in half 

12-34yo is up 26%
35-49yo is down (Punk's fans)


----------



## IronMan8

Hotdiggity11 said:


> A lot of the growth is from the beginning of the year though. The ratings have noticeably dipped from the first quarter in 2022 except for one spike.


Their best ever ratings run was in Sep/October/Nov...

The success is undeniable at this point:


AEW increases every single year
WWE declines every single year

That long-term trajectory is clearer when you zoom out and ignore the weekly noise


----------



## IronMan8

Itiswhatitis said:


> How pathetic it must be for Khan to realize Raw which was a recap basically killed his live product with his toy bucks 😂


The Young Bucks defeated Cody's return episode to end an incredible 23-year run for WWE Raw

Bucks > Cody

In their normal timeslots, more people watched AEW Dynamite's main event than Raw's to close 2022

Dynamite is currently more popular than Raw


----------



## Hotdiggity11

IronMan8 said:


> The Young Bucks defeated Cody's return episode to end an incredible 23-year run for WWE Raw
> 
> Bucks > Cody
> 
> In their normal timeslots, more people watched AEW Dynamite's main event than Raw's to close 2022
> 
> Dynamite is currently more popular than Raw


The spirit of DC lives on.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> Always and it's one of the few things we got left to do around this forum that is just for some jokes and fun
> 
> On a serious note it just goes to show you if they put a decent card they can pull a decent rating...This show was mid from the start and they honestly should've had death triangle pull off the win. That would've been more surprising than anything else happening now


3 Hour Raw Recap: 1.075 Million
2 Hour Live Dynamite: 876K

Final tally of the year!


----------



## bdon

IronMan8 said:


> The Young Bucks defeated Cody's return episode to end an incredible 23-year run for WWE Raw
> 
> Bucks > Cody
> 
> In their normal timeslots, more people watched AEW Dynamite's main event than Raw's to close 2022
> 
> Dynamite is currently more popular than Raw


“It ain’t who wins most! It’s who wins most recent!!!”

My uncle, probably, after finally beating his 12 year old nephew(me) on Madden ‘96 after 100 ass kickings.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

bdon said:


> “It ain’t who wins most! It’s who wins most recent!!!”
> 
> My uncle, probably, after finally beating his 12 year old nephew(me) on Madden ‘96 after 100 ass kickings.



Washington Generals winning against the Harlem Globetrotters after 5398 consecutive losses:

“Who your daddy?”


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Showstopper said:


> 3 Hour Raw Recap: 1.075 Million
> 2 Hour Live Dynamite: 876K
> 
> Final tally of the year!



Is that Wrestling Jesus? Lol


----------



## Saintpat

IronMan8 said:


> The demo is split in half
> 
> 12-34yo is up 26%
> 35-49yo is down (Punk's fans)


18-49 is _the _demo. There are demos up and down the age scale plus male/female, etc., but as far as what shows are rated on (as in which ranks first for the night, etc.) it’s 18-49 and that’s what sets ad rates.

Advertisers don’t care how many 12-year-old girls are watching so networks don’t care either, but if a network wanted to know that they can find out by digging into the demo info.


----------



## RainmakerV2

@bdon Bet Bryan opening the show with boring wrestling caused this.


----------



## Shaz Cena

Showstopper said:


> 3 Hour Raw Recap: 1.075 Million
> 2 Hour Live Dynamite: 876K
> 
> Final tally of the year!


Ok this is getting embarrassing...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Shaz Cena said:


> Ok this is getting embarrassing...


no its not, we support a passionate about ratings @Showstopper in this household


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> @bdon Bet Bryan opening the show with boring wrestling caused this.


If he didn’t lose 150-200k viewers, I’ll chalk it up as a win for the guy.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

I'm sure Bryan Danielson and Tony Nese going 20 minutes will draw the coveted million.


----------



## Kishido

Amazing number!!! They never have been this close to RAW! 

Now continue the Elite vs Pac stuff for at least 21 one matches


----------



## bdon

Kenny's Ghost said:


> I'm sure Bryan Danielson and Tony Nese going 20 minutes will draw the coveted million.


Wait, is this really what opened the fucking show!?

I only turned it on to watch Elite and DT, then I went back to family time. They can’t be so goddamn stupid as to open with Bryan Danielson in another heatless match and Tony Neese, can they?


----------



## Wolf Mark

AEW diehards are really like the TNA diehards of the 2010s. For AEW the numbers are always around 900 thousand, for TNA it was always 1.1. It's a small group of dedicated fans, always the same folks. TNA never grew even when they brought big stars like Hogan and Angle. And I fear the same will happen with AEW. That reveal an ultimate failiure at its conception and never willing to adress it. I realised at some point that if TNA could not have bigger numbers and bigger live shows attendances(other than in the UK) with Nash and Sting and Hogan and Bully Ray and Mr. Anderson and the Hardys plus the great homegrown like Joe, AJ Styles, Storm. Roode, etc....then it was a lost cause. Khan should think about not making the same mistakes as TNA. When AEW started at the first press conference, he mentioned not wanting to make the same mistakes as WCW. But he should have thought about TNA first cause the same thing. I am speaking as a former blind TNA loyalist who thought everybody was against us and could not see their mistakes. 

TK may be more proactive as a businessman wanting his company to grow compared to Dixie and Warner seems less demanding from AEW than Spike was from TNA(I believe Dixie had to garantee ratings numbers before every contract renewals). But it's still early into their partnership and Warner has a new ownership so it's rosy for now. But at some point they are gonna ask for numbers too. And TK seem refuse to aknowledge that there is a problem. TNA's problem was presentation and booking. They came off as too trashy and the booking seemed to have been lost in the Attitude Era. For AEW it feels like house shows with a bigger budget. 

TNA turned it around a bit in 2012. They stopped trying to mimick others and the booking became simple, no big story with gazillion wrestlers, it was just about dominating heel champ Bobby Roode. And his feud with his former partner James Storm. The simplicity of the booking came off more visceral and important because of it. Bear in mind it didn't show in the ratings but it was the right path to take. Probably too little too late, though. AEW better wake up soon as well. I'm thinking the MJF push just like the Roode push may be too late too.


----------



## IronMan8

Wolf Mark said:


> AEW diehards are really like the TNA diehards of the 2010s. For AEW the numbers are always around 900 thousand, for TNA it was always 1.1. It's a small group of dedicated fans, always the same folks. TNA never grew even when they brought big stars like Hogan and Angle. And I fear the same will happen with AEW. That reveal an ultimate failiure at its conception and never willing to adress it. I realised at some point that if TNA could not have bigger numbers and bigger live shows attendances(other than in the UK) with Nash and Sting and Hogan and Bully Ray and Mr. Anderson and the Hardys plus the great homegrown like Joe, AJ Styles, Storm. Roode, etc....then it was a lost cause. Khan should think about not making the same mistakes as TNA. When AEW started at the first press conference, he mentioned not wanting to make the same mistakes as WCW. But he should have thought about TNA first cause the same thing. I am speaking as a former blind TNA loyalist who thought everybody was against us and could not see their mistakes.
> 
> TK may be more proactive as a businessman wanting his company to grow compared to Dixie and Warner seems less demanding from AEW than Spike was from TNA(I believe Dixie had to garantee ratings numbers before every contract renewals). But it's still early into their partnership and Warner has a new ownership so it's rosy for now. But at some point they are gonna ask for numbers too. And TK seem refuse to aknowledge that there is a problem. TNA's problem was presentation and booking. They came off as too trashy and the booking seemed to have been lost in the Attitude Era. For AEW it feels like house shows with a bigger budget.
> 
> TNA turned it around a bit in 2012. They stopped trying to mimick others and the booking became simple, no big story with gazillion wrestlers, it was just about dominating heel champ Bobby Roode. And his feud with his former partner James Storm. The simplicity of the booking came off more visceral and important because of it. Bear in mind it didn't show in the ratings but it was the right path to take. Probably too little too late, though. AEW better wake up soon as well. I'm thinking the MJF push just like the Roode push may be too late too.


...except for the fact that AEW ratings have gone up every year 

and WWE ratings have gone down every year for 20+ years


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Shaz Cena said:


> Ok this is getting embarrassing...


Live. Laugh. Love, my friend. Some of us just have a wonderful zest for life. Enjoy it, and God Bless.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no its not, we support a passionate about ratings @Showstopper in this household


Shhh! Some of them still think this 1000% serious business, hehe.


----------



## bdon

Wolf Mark said:


> AEW diehards are really like the TNA diehards of the 2010s. For AEW the numbers are always around 900 thousand, for TNA it was always 1.1. It's a small group of dedicated fans, always the same folks. TNA never grew even when they brought big stars like Hogan and Angle. And I fear the same will happen with AEW. That reveal an ultimate failiure at its conception and never willing to adress it. I realised at some point that if TNA could not have bigger numbers and bigger live shows attendances(other than in the UK) with Nash and Sting and Hogan and Bully Ray and Mr. Anderson and the Hardys plus the great homegrown like Joe, AJ Styles, Storm. Roode, etc....then it was a lost cause. Khan should think about not making the same mistakes as TNA. When AEW started at the first press conference, he mentioned not wanting to make the same mistakes as WCW. But he should have thought about TNA first cause the same thing. I am speaking as a former blind TNA loyalist who thought everybody was against us and could not see their mistakes.
> 
> TK may be more proactive as a businessman wanting his company to grow compared to Dixie and Warner seems less demanding from AEW than Spike was from TNA(I believe Dixie had to garantee ratings numbers before every contract renewals). But it's still early into their partnership and Warner has a new ownership so it's rosy for now. But at some point they are gonna ask for numbers too. And TK seem refuse to aknowledge that there is a problem. TNA's problem was presentation and booking. They came off as too trashy and the booking seemed to have been lost in the Attitude Era. For AEW it feels like house shows with a bigger budget.
> 
> TNA turned it around a bit in 2012. They stopped trying to mimick others and the booking became simple, no big story with gazillion wrestlers, it was just about dominating heel champ Bobby Roode. And his feud with his former partner James Storm. The simplicity of the booking came off more visceral and important because of it. Bear in mind it didn't show in the ratings but it was the right path to take. Probably too little too late, though. AEW better wake up soon as well. I'm thinking the MJF push just like the Roode push may be too late too.


While I do agree with the sentiment and think TK needs to create a better television program, I can’t help but feel like even maintaining numbers against a falling market has to be viewed in a favorable light, even if it IS wrestling.


IronMan8 said:


> ...except for the fact that AEW ratings have gone up every year
> 
> and WWE ratings have gone down every year for 20+ years


Don’t really care what the WWE does. It’s a household name and part of the American television culture. It simply has to follow the overall trend of tv, and they will make bank. Sponsors and execs know it isn’t going anywhere.

TK doesn’t have that luxury, so he has to perform above his contemporaries.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Where dem quarterly numbers at?


----------



## Lenny Leonard

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SCJerk/comments/zyyhgd


----------



## 3venflow

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Where dem quarterly numbers at?


No one has them yet. Brandon Thurston hasn't put them on his Patreon and they weren't in the WON as far as I can tell.

Next week, AEW has two standalone events in new markets with strong advances (12,000+ tickets sold). They keep extending capacity for the Seattle show.

*AEW Dynamite
Wed • Jan 04, 2023 • 4:00 PM
Climate Pledge Arena, Seattle, WA*

Available Tickets => 2,178
Current Setup/Capacity => 10,169
Tickets Distributed => 7,991

*All Elite Wrestling: Rampage
Fri • Jan 06, 2023 • 6:00 PM
Veterans Memorial Coliseum, Portland, OR*

Available Tickets => 571
Current Setup/Capacity => 4,969
Tickets Distributed => 4,398


----------



## Lenny Leonard

The crybaby mods at r/squaredcircle are having a meltdown


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Where dem quarterly numbers at?


----------



## 3venflow

Elite vs. DT holding viewers better than any other QH other than the main event won't go down well on here. 

The women's division is still a problem even with storylines now. Even Shida vs. Hayter didn't do that well if you discount the 60 second overrun and that was one of the best women's matches on US soil this year. That 10% drop in viewers and 11% drop in P18-49 is very striking. Props to the main event for regaining many of those viewers though.


----------



## bdon

A Bryan Danielson match didn’t run off 150k or more viewers this time. Fuck yeah!


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Women’s wrestling is a draw (For the other channels). 😳





3venflow said:


> Elite vs. DT holding viewers better than any other QH other than the main event won't go down well on here.
> 
> The women's division is still a problem even with storylines now. Even Shida vs. Hayter didn't do that well if you discount the 60 second overrun and that was one of the best women's matches on US soil this year. That 10% drop in viewers and 11% drop in P18-49 is very striking. Props to the main event for regaining many of those viewers though.



I perused Twitter a few days ago. A lot of Dubbalos fell for the 1 minute overrun ploy as meaning they drew viewers (After an awful final quarter number). Khan hitting off in the propaganda department.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Women’s wrestling is a draw (For the other channels). 😳


They've done fine when moved out of that spot. When they did a couple of those tag matches with Britt/Hayter earlier in the show, the viewership was fine for them and even ended up being one of the higher things on the show. 

The problem is Tony's put too many lower level women's matches in the same exact spots to where fans know they can tune out at that time if they aren't interested, and it's such an easy problem to fix that it's honestly become infuriating to an extent. If they started putting other segments in that spot and moving the women's matches and such around to different times, most likely there wouldn't be a drop at all.


----------



## bdon

Dr. Middy said:


> They've done fine when moved out of that spot. When they did a couple of those tag matches with Britt/Hayter earlier in the show, the viewership was fine for them and even ended up being one of the higher things on the show.
> 
> The problem is Tony's put too many lower level women's matches in the same exact spots to where fans know they can tune out at that time if they aren't interested, and it's such an easy problem to fix that it's honestly become infuriating to an extent. If they started putting other segments in that spot and moving the women's matches and such around to different times, most likely there wouldn't be a drop at all.


I mean, he has QT fucking Marshall formatting the shows. Lol


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Dr. Middy said:


> They've done fine when moved out of that spot. When they did a couple of those tag matches with Britt/Hayter earlier in the show, the viewership was fine for them and even ended up being one of the higher things on the show.
> 
> The problem is Tony's put too many lower level women's matches in the same exact spots to where fans know they can tune out at that time if they aren't interested, and it's such an easy problem to fix that it's honestly become infuriating to an extent. If they started putting other segments in that spot and moving the women's matches and such around to different times, most likely there wouldn't be a drop at all.



? It closed Dynamite just last week and was the lowest quarter hour on the entire show.




M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


>


----------



## RapShepard

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608603548140589057

So much for Punk being this crazy draw that Tony needs to beg to come back.




> AEW Dynamite finishes 2022 with an average of 960,000 viewers, +2% versus 2021 (942,000).
> 
> And an average P18-49 rating of 0.34, -3% from last year (0.36).
> 
> Excluding any preemptions.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

RapShepard said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608603548140589057
> 
> So much for Punk being this crazy draw that Tony needs to beg to come back.


May want to look at those graphs a little harder, Shepard lol.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Hotdiggity11 said:


> May want to look at those graphs a little harder, Shepard lol.


Like is he okay? lmao


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Elite paid for the hourly ratings to not be released this week lmao


----------



## Hotdiggity11

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> Like is he okay? lmao



Maybe I’m just high as fuck but it looks like by that first graph that 2021 has been mostly killing 2022 the second half of the year (Which would constitute most of the Post-Punk era of AEW).

Also 2022 was smashing 2021 at the beginning of the year but is now underperforming against 2021 to end the year.


----------



## Wolf Mark

IronMan8 said:


> ...except for the fact that AEW ratings have gone up every year
> 
> and WWE ratings have gone down every year for 20+ years


Umm no, the biggest AEW Dynamite ratings was when they first started.


----------



## IronMan8

Wolf Mark said:


> Umm no, the biggest AEW Dynamite ratings was when they first started.


Don't be dumb, it's not fun

We were talking yearly averages because it reflects long-term growth, which is the point


----------



## IronMan8

@fabi1982 don't drive-by eye roll all of my posts. It's not fun. Come and play if you want, but don't throw stones from outside the playground


----------



## NathanMayberry

AEW Losing Canadian Television Network Had Nothing To Do With Ratings


AEW's partnership with Warner Bros Discovery has certainly helped them out a lot. Despite their growing presence, they lost a French-Canadian television




www.ringsidenews.com





Budgets cuts.. I expect that to be a theme moving forward


----------



## Saintpat

IronMan8 said:


> @fabi1982 don't drive-by eye roll all of my posts. It's not fun. Come and play if you want, but don't throw stones from outside the playground


In the immortal words of Ricky Steamboat: If you wanna play, get in the sandbox.


----------



## CovidFan

💋


----------



## Wolf Mark

IronMan8 said:


> Don't be dumb, it's not fun
> 
> We were talking yearly averages because it reflects long-term growth, which is the point


LOL whatever you say to yourself to sleep at night Mr. Khan.


----------



## IronMan8

Wolf Mark said:


> LOL whatever you say to yourself to sleep at night Mr. Khan.


You make a demonstrably wrong comment, get called out, then dismiss the response as if you were right all along?

Nobody likes when people do that. It's not a fun trollish thing either. Engage with the conversation bro


----------



## Wolf Mark

IronMan8 said:


> You make a demonstrably wrong comment, get called out, then dismiss the response as if you were right all along?
> 
> Nobody likes when people do that. It's not a fun trollish thing either. Engage with the conversation bro


The only thing that was demonstrated is that you live in your own little dream World. They had better ratings at the beginning. That's a fact. Going from 1.5 to 900 is not growth. Going from 1 to 3 viewers is growth. If a sport player started his career making 350 thousand. And then his next contract he gets 300, that means his bosses don't see growth in his play. It's a RE-GRE-SSION.

Not only that but bear in mind that before NXT left on Wednesdays, the actual Dynamite number was 675K.


----------



## IronMan8

Wolf Mark said:


> The only thing that was demonstrated is that you live in your own little dream World. They had better ratings at the beginning. That's a fact. Going from 1.5 to 900 is not growth. Going from 1 to 3 viewers is growth. If a sport player started his career making 350 thousand. And then his next contract he gets 300, that means his bosses don't see growth in his play. It's a RE-GRE-SSION.


Dumb and not worth my time


----------



## RapShepard

Hotdiggity11 said:


> May want to look at those graphs a little harder, Shepard lol.






BestInTheWorld312 said:


> Like is he okay? lmao


I mean if you read the tweet the difference between years isn't much. Not as much as Punk fans want you to believe.


----------



## Wolf Mark

IronMan8 said:


> Dumb and not worth my time


I thought you wanted to "engage the conversation". So much for that.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608603548140589057
> 
> So much for Punk being this crazy draw that Tony needs to beg to come back.


I had already pointed this out numerous times this year.


RapShepard said:


> I mean if you read the tweet the difference between years isn't much. Not as much as Punk fans want you to believe.


They don’t want to admit that Punk is marginally a larger draw than Mox/Elite/Jericho, nor do they want to admit the irreparable damage that his scrum did in harming the company just like his stupid fucking pipebomb damaged WWE.

7 times Dynamite went over a million on TNT in 2021 prior to Punk, despite being preempted for 2 months.

7 times Dynaite went over a million on TBS in the same time frame of 2022, despite NOT being preempted as they were in early 2021.


----------



## IronMan8

Wolf Mark said:


> I thought you wanted to "engage the conversation". So much for that.


You haven't responded to the content I put forth, so you'll be ignored until you play for fun


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> I had already pointed this out numerous times this year.
> 
> They don’t want to admit that Punk is marginally a larger draw than Mox/Elite/Jericho, nor do they want to admit the irreparable damage that his scrum did in harming the company just like his stupid fucking pipebomb damaged WWE.
> 
> 7 times Dynamite went over a million on TNT in 2021 prior to Punk, despite being preempted for 2 months.
> 
> 7 times Dynaite went over a million on TBS in the same time frame of 2022, despite NOT being preempted as they were in early 2021.


Because admitting he's just a slightly bigger star means you have to admit

1. WWE wasn't crazy for not making him face over Cena. 

2. Despite #2 guy in WWE exposure and UFC exposure, his fan base is closer to The Elite than Elite haters care to admit.


----------



## Wolf Mark

IronMan8 said:


> You haven't responded to the content I put forth, so you'll be ignored until you play for fun


What content? All I can find is you saying "the ratings have gone up every year". Which is laughable.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

bdon said:


> I had already pointed this out numerous times this year.
> 
> They don’t want to admit that Punk is marginally a larger draw than Mox/Elite/Jericho, nor do they want to admit the irreparable damage that his scrum did in harming the company just like his stupid fucking pipebomb damaged WWE.
> 
> 7 times Dynamite went over a million on TNT in 2021 prior to Punk, despite being preempted for 2 months.
> 
> 7 times Dynaite went over a million on TBS in the same time frame of 2022, despite NOT being preempted as they were in early 2021.




I'm not a Punk fanboy so not sure what I'm admitting or denying. There's no doubt that Punk helps in the ratings. No, he's not some massive Rock or even Cena-like entity that will cause a big jump in ratings but there are clearly people who like Punk since he is one of the few people in the company that can carry himself on the mic in almost every promo. This differientes from the majority of the roster that are work rate geeks but spend little time actually developing their mic work.


----------



## bdon

Hotdiggity11 said:


> I'm not a Punk fanboy so not sure what I'm admitting or denying. There's no doubt that Punk helps in the ratings. No, he's not some massive Rock or even Cena-like entity that will cause a big jump in ratings but there are clearly people who like Punk since he is one of the few people in the company that can carry himself on the mic in almost every promo. This differientes from the majority of the roster that are work rate geeks but spend little time actually developing their mic work.


No one denies that Punk has fans. Spending time with the machine behind him as the #2 guy would guarantee that.

And yet for all of those people that believed To y should bend at the knee to serve Punk and fire the Elite for “not wanting to grow the business”…Punk is only marginally a larger draw. 🤷🏼‍♂️

But so we are clear, I wasn’t pointing the finger at you. I was speaking generally to those that parrot Cornette and act like The Elite and Jericho couldn’t stand a bigger star being around when he clearly isn’t that much larger than they are.


----------



## bdon

It’s just comical for Punk and his fans to talk about the Elite like they have never been anywhere or done anything is a little ironic given Punk was drawing only marginally larger numbers than they were, didn’t start a $100m secondary company, never headlined a Tokyo Dome show (has he ever headlined a show with 40k like Kenny has?), and very hypocritical given he didn’t want to listen to Undertaker and Rock when they were giving out advice.

There is a lot larger discrepancy between Taker/Rock than there is Punk/Elite.


----------



## Bahn Yuki

3venflow said:


> No one has them yet. Brandon Thurston hasn't put them on his Patreon and they weren't in the WON as far as I can tell.
> 
> Next week, AEW has two standalone events in new markets with strong advances (12,000+ tickets sold). They keep extending capacity for the Seattle show.
> 
> *AEW Dynamite
> Wed • Jan 04, 2023 • 4:00 PM
> Climate Pledge Arena, Seattle, WA*
> 
> Available Tickets => 2,178
> Current Setup/Capacity => 10,169
> Tickets Distributed => 7,991
> 
> *All Elite Wrestling: Rampage
> Fri • Jan 06, 2023 • 6:00 PM
> Veterans Memorial Coliseum, Portland, OR*
> 
> Available Tickets => 571
> Current Setup/Capacity => 4,969
> Tickets Distributed => 4,398


I'll be at the Portland show with my gf and buddy that I'm trying to get into wrestling. I don't have the heart to tell him it's Rampage. He'd probably bail since he wants to see Mjf live. 

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Bahn Yuki said:


> I'll be at the Portland show with my gf and buddy that I'm trying to get into wrestling. I don't have the heart to tell him it's Rampage. He'd probably bail since he wants to see Mjf live.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


It's also Battle of the Belts after Rampage though I don't think that increases the chances of MJF much. You might get a ROH World Title match though. 🤨


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> It’s just comical for Punk and his fans to talk about the Elite like they have never been anywhere or done anything is a little ironic given Punk was drawing only marginally larger numbers than they were, didn’t start a $100m secondary company, never headlined a Tokyo Dome show (has he ever headlined a show with 40k like Kenny has?), and very hypocritical given he didn’t want to listen to Undertaker and Rock when they were giving out advice.
> 
> There is a lot larger discrepancy between Taker/Rock than there is Punk/Elite.


Now the last part I won't even hold against Punk lol. Regardless of what section of the entertainment industry it is. It seems like the cycle is

Up and Comer feels most grizzled veterans are out of touch, unless they personally like them. So they ignore the veterans. 

Up and Comer becomes the grizzled veteran. Is confused why only the Up and Comers that sing their praise, pay them any attention.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

3venflow said:


> It's also Battle of the Belts after Rampage though I don't think that increases the chances of MJF much. You might get a ROH World Title match though. 🤨


MJF vs Action Andretti: Once in a lifetime.


----------



## One Shed

Hotdiggity11 said:


> MJF vs Action Andretti: Once in a lifetime.


Can we get "once in a lifetime" in writing?


----------



## Mister Sinister

Still no quarter hours? That's out of the ordinary.


----------



## 3venflow

Mister Sinister said:


> Still no quarter hours? That's out of the ordinary.


They were posted a couple of pages back, just the alternative version.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Wouldn't ya know it finally adding gimmicks to the trios matches actually helps.


----------



## fabi1982

IronMan8 said:


> @fabi1982 don't drive-by eye roll all of my posts. It's not fun. Come and play if you want, but don't throw stones from outside the playground


Not sure there is anything I can do for you and your hopeless comments. You do you and you try to twist everything into a positive. Just dont expect everyone to just laugh at you, some may roll their eyes 

have a happy (and of course in terms of ratings growing) new year ❤


----------



## DRose1994

3venflow said:


> They were posted a couple of pages back, just the alternative version.
> 
> View attachment 146561


another pretty steep drop off. Lost about 250K+ throughout the show. People tuned back in just to see what the fallout would be at the end, but it’s like quarter to quarter people grow less and less interested. What is there to lose if you change the format at this point?


----------



## bdon

DRose1994 said:


> another pretty steep drop off. Lost about 250K+ throughout the show. People tuned back in just to see what the fallout would be at the end, but it’s like quarter to quarter people grow less and less interested. What is there to lose if you change the format at this point?


Hire…television…people!


----------



## Mister Sinister

Trios lost almost 70k alone. You just do not do these best of seven series for any matchup that isn't absolutely a pleasure to watch.
Opening with a twenty minute match also lost 70k viewers and Q6/7 lost 80k. This is all booking/timing problems.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

RainmakerV2 said:


> Wouldn't ya know it finally adding gimmicks to the trios matches actually helps.



Really helped in still losing viewers. Despite being the 9PM match. 😂

Only guys that caused a rise in the ratings was Fat Joe vs the panty dropper.


----------



## bdon

Mister Sinister said:


> Trios lost almost 70k alone. You just do not do these best of seven series for any matchup that isn't absolutely a pleasure to watch.
> Opening with a twenty minute match also lost 70k viewers and Q6/7 lost 80k. This is all booking/timing problems.


Trios only lost 4k viewers. The next segment lost 70k viewers, and the trios was only 2 minutes of that segment. 


Hotdiggity11 said:


> Really helped in still losing viewers. Despite being the 9PM match. 😂
> 
> Only guys that caused a rise in the ratings was Fat Joe vs the panty dropper.


4k viewer loss is nothing.


----------



## IronMan8

fabi1982 said:


> Not sure there is anything I can do for you and your hopeless comments. You do you and you try to twist everything into a positive. Just dont expect everyone to just laugh at you, some may roll their eyes
> 
> have a happy (and of course in terms of ratings growing) new year ❤


Lame

Outside LICC's posts and 4-5 other quality posters I like to read, this forum has been irritating me for a while

Time to step back from posting regularly


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

IronMan8 said:


> Time to step back from posting regularly


----------



## One Shed

IronMan8 said:


> Lame
> 
> Outside LICC's posts and 4-5 other quality posters I like to read, this forum has been irritating me for a while
> 
> Time to step back from posting regularly


Not our fault the product has become mostly lame. If you want to be around people who praise everything no matter how dumb it is or how little sense it makes, join a church.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

bdon said:


> Trios only lost 4k viewers. The next segment lost 70k viewers, and the trios was only 2 minutes of that segment.
> 
> 4k viewer loss is nothing.



9PM should be a viewer gain [If it was anything channel changers wanted to watch]. This trios thing is beyond exhausting at this point.


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

IronMan8 said:


> Lame
> 
> Outside LICC's posts and 4-5 other quality posters I like to read, this forum has been irritating me for a while
> 
> Time to step back from posting regularly


Oh no, anyway, hit it Siri


----------



## Mister Sinister

bdon said:


> Trios only lost 4k viewers. The next segment lost 70k viewers, and the trios was only 2 minutes of that segment.
> 
> 4k viewer loss is nothing.


The next QH is the result of the previous QH.


----------



## bdon

Mister Sinister said:


> The next QH is the result of the previous QH.


No, that’s not how it goes. The quarter hours measure exactly what the average is over that specific 15 minute segment.


----------



## Mister Sinister

bdon said:


> No, that’s not how it goes. The quarter hours measure exactly what the average is over that specific 15 minute segment.


And the viewers say, "that was bullshit" and change the channel in response to what they've seen, not what happens on screen when they've already changed the channel and have no idea what is on air anymore. Thus the trios lost viewers who were no longer interested.

Q2 is the aftermath of Q1, and so on. Q8 is the culmination of whether you've booked a money match, if you set it up in weeks prior, if your seven quarters before held the audience and if you actually made that main event the story of the show with it opening, continuing in the middle and then delivering in Q7/8.

They rarely do a beginning, middle and end episode, so their main event is like a sad stripper with razor rash and ugly titties by the time they get to Q8.


----------



## bdon

Mister Sinister said:


> And the viewers say, "that was bullshit" and change the channel in response to what they've seen, not what happens on screen when they've already changed the channel and have no idea what is on air anymore. Thus the trios lost viewers who were no longer interested.
> 
> Q2 is the aftermath of Q1, and so on. Q8 is the culmination of whether you've booked a money match, if you set it up in weeks prior, if your seven quarters before held the audience and if you actually made that main event the story of the show with it opening, continuing in the middle and then delivering in Q7/8.
> 
> They rarely do a beginning, middle and end episode, so their main event is like a sad stripper with razor rash and ugly titties by the time they get to Q8.


No, that isn’t how it works. If Trios was awful, people would turn the channel during that, not afterward. You’re wrong on this, bud.

Otherwise you’re trying to tell us that Wardlow and Joe didn’t actually entice people to watch, it was just the previous quarter hour of women’s bullshit garbage wrestling.

Nah. It don’t work that way. This is moving goal posts, so that no matter the number, you can somehow blame the Elite. The ratings drop during the Elite’s segment, it’s their fault. Numbers drop after them, it’s their fault.

Goddamn you people are shameless.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> No, that isn’t how it works. If Trios was awful, people would turn the channel during that, not afterward. You’re wrong on this, bud.
> 
> Otherwise you’re trying to tell us that Wardlow and Joe didn’t actually entice people to watch, it was just the previous quarter hour of women’s bullshit garbage wrestling.
> 
> Nah. It don’t work that way. This is moving goal posts, so that no matter the number, you can somehow blame the Elite. The ratings drop during the Elite’s segment, it’s their fault. Numbers drop after them, it’s their fault.
> 
> Goddamn you people are shameless.


ratings drop before the Elite, its because they were advertised for ‘appearing later’ xD


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ratings drop before the Elite, its because they were advertised for ‘appearing later’ xD


Exactly. It’s literally creating a gateway to where any negatives are The Elite’s fault. That’s fucking disingenuous bullshit.

Ratings drop with the Elite not even on the show? It’s because the Elite were on that show that one time.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Happy New Year guys! Here is a list of the 52 biggest events happening on Wednesdays this year so y'all can get a head start on your excuses... 

1: Wednesday November 22 - Thanksgiving Eve

2: Wednesday April 12 - Burmese New Year's Eve

3: Wednesday October 18 - Spirit Day Eve

4: Wednesday December 6 - Hanukkah Eve

5: Wednesday October 4 - Teacher's Day Eve

6: Wednesday November 15 - Fast Food Day Eve

7: Wednesday April 26 - First Day of the NFL Draft Eve

8: Wednesday May 24 - Wine Day Eve

9: Wednesday February 1 - Groundhog's Day Eve

10: Wednesday August 9 - Lazy Day Eve

11: Wednesday May 17 - Ascension Day Eve

12: Wednesday April 19 - 4/20 Eve

13: Wednesday September 6 - Beer Lover's Day Eve

14: Wednesday January 25 - Austrailia Day Eve

15: Wednesday June 28 - Handshake Day Eve

16: Wednesday July 26 - New Jersey Day Eve

17: Wednesday December 20 - First Day of Winter Eve

18: Wednesday July 12 - French Fries Day Eve

19: Wednesday February 8 - Pizza Day Eve

20: Wednesday December 13 - Christmas Jumper Day Eve

21: Wednesday November 29 - Outwork Everyone on your Birthday Eve

22: Wednesday July 5 - Fried Chicken Day Eve

23: Wednesday March 15 - Stone Cold Day Eve

24: Wednesday February 15 - Lithuanian Restoration Day Eve

25: Wednesday June 7 - Best Friends Day Eve

26: Wednesday August 2 - IPA Day Eve

27: Wednesday April 5 - Burrito Day Eve

28: Wednesday August 16 - Black Cat Appreciation Day Eve

29: Wednesday October 11 - Farmer's Day Eve

30: Wednesday November 1 - All Souls Day Eve

31: Wednesday January 4 - Bird's Day Eve

32: Wednesday January 18 - Popcorn Day Eve

33: Wednesday May 31 - Milk Day Eve

34: Wednesday August 30 - Trinidad and Tobago Independence Day Eve

35: Wednesday October 25 - Pumpkin Day Eve

36: Wednesday January 11 - Kiss a Ginger Day Eve

37: Wednesday March 22 - Puppy Day Eve

38: Wednesday June 21 - Australian Winter Solstice Eve

39: Wednesday May 10 - Eat What You Want Day Eve

40: Wednesday March 1 - Texas Independence Day Eve

41: Wednesday March 29 - Bipolar Day Eve

42: Wednesday September 13 - Penelope Ford's Birthday Eve

43: Wednesday August 23 - Waffle Day Eve

44: Wednesday May 3 - Star Wars Day Eve

45: Wednesday November 8 - Chris Jericho's Birthday Eve

46: Wednesday February 22 - Second Day of Lent Eve

47: Wednesday September 20 - International Day of Peace Eve

48: Wednesday July 19 - Moon Day Eve

49: Wednesday December 27 - Indian Congress Foundation Day Eve

50: Wednesday September 27 - Son's Day Eve

51: Wednesday June 14 - Elder Abuse Awareness Day Eve

52: Wednesday March 8 - Kidney Day Eve


----------



## bdon

NathanMayberry said:


> Happy New Year guys! Here is a list of the 52 biggest events happening on Wednesdays this year so y'all can get a head start on your excuses...
> 
> 1: Wednesday November 22 - Thanksgiving Eve
> 
> 2: Wednesday April 12 - Burmese New Year's Eve
> 
> 3: Wednesday October 18 - Spirit Day Eve
> 
> 4: Wednesday December 6 - Hanukkah Eve
> 
> 5: Wednesday October 4 - Teacher's Day Eve
> 
> 6: Wednesday November 15 - Fast Food Day Eve
> 
> 7: Wednesday April 26 - First Day of the NFL Draft Eve
> 
> 8: Wednesday May 24 - Wine Day Eve
> 
> 9: Wednesday February 1 - Groundhog's Day Eve
> 
> 10: Wednesday August 9 - Lazy Day Eve
> 
> 11: Wednesday May 17 - Ascension Day Eve
> 
> 12: Wednesday April 19 - 4/20 Eve
> 
> 13: Wednesday September 6 - Beer Lover's Day Eve
> 
> 14: Wednesday January 25 - Austrailia Day Eve
> 
> 15: Wednesday June 28 - Handshake Day Eve
> 
> 16: Wednesday July 26 - New Jersey Day Eve
> 
> 17: Wednesday December 20 - First Day of Winter Eve
> 
> 18: Wednesday July 12 - French Fries Day Eve
> 
> 19: Wednesday February 8 - Pizza Day Eve
> 
> 20: Wednesday December 13 - Christmas Jumper Day Eve
> 
> 21: Wednesday November 29 - Outwork Everyone on your Birthday Eve
> 
> 22: Wednesday July 5 - Fried Chicken Day Eve
> 
> 23: Wednesday March 15 - Stone Cold Day Eve
> 
> 24: Wednesday February 15 - Lithuanian Restoration Day Eve
> 
> 25: Wednesday June 7 - Best Friends Day Eve
> 
> 26: Wednesday August 2 - IPA Day Eve
> 
> 27: Wednesday April 5 - Burrito Day Eve
> 
> 28: Wednesday August 16 - Black Cat Appreciation Day Eve
> 
> 29: Wednesday October 11 - Farmer's Day Eve
> 
> 30: Wednesday November 1 - All Souls Day Eve
> 
> 31: Wednesday January 4 - Bird's Day Eve
> 
> 32: Wednesday January 18 - Popcorn Day Eve
> 
> 33: Wednesday May 31 - Milk Day Eve
> 
> 34: Wednesday August 30 - Trinidad and Tobago Independence Day Eve
> 
> 35: Wednesday October 25 - Pumpkin Day Eve
> 
> 36: Wednesday January 11 - Kiss a Ginger Day Eve
> 
> 37: Wednesday March 22 - Puppy Day Eve
> 
> 38: Wednesday June 21 - Australian Winter Solstice Eve
> 
> 39: Wednesday May 10 - Eat What You Want Day Eve
> 
> 40: Wednesday March 1 - Texas Independence Day Eve
> 
> 41: Wednesday March 29 - Bipolar Day Eve
> 
> 42: Wednesday September 13 - Penelope Ford's Birthday Eve
> 
> 43: Wednesday August 23 - Waffle Day Eve
> 
> 44: Wednesday May 3 - Star Wars Day Eve
> 
> 45: Wednesday November 8 - Chris Jericho's Birthday Eve
> 
> 46: Wednesday February 22 - Second Day of Lent Eve
> 
> 47: Wednesday September 20 - International Day of Peace Eve
> 
> 48: Wednesday July 19 - Moon Day Eve
> 
> 49: Wednesday December 27 - Indian Congress Foundation Day Eve
> 
> 50: Wednesday September 27 - Son's Day Eve
> 
> 51: Wednesday June 14 - Elder Abuse Awareness Day Eve
> 
> 52: Wednesday March 8 - Kidney Day Eve


Kidney Day Eve is hard for 18 year olds to watch the show due to practicing sobriety. Everyone knows this. Lmao


----------



## Mister Sinister

bdon said:


> No, that isn’t how it works. If Trios was awful, people would turn the channel during that, not afterward. You’re wrong on this, bud.
> 
> Otherwise you’re trying to tell us that Wardlow and Joe didn’t actually entice people to watch, it was just the previous quarter hour of women’s bullshit garbage wrestling.
> 
> Nah. It don’t work that way. This is moving goal posts, so that no matter the number, you can somehow blame the Elite. The ratings drop during the Elite’s segment, it’s their fault. Numbers drop after them, it’s their fault.
> 
> Goddamn you people are shameless.


They started their match with 895 and finished with 826. Long matches lose ratings almost every time, no matter who it is.


----------



## bdon

Mister Sinister said:


> They started their match with 895 and finished with 826. Long matches lose ratings almost every time, no matter who it is.


No, they had TWO fucking minutes of that 826k quarter hour. TWO. Do you realize they average this shit out over a 15 minute period? If there was going to be a viewership loss due to the Elite, it would have occurred the 15 minutes prior, not the final two. 

Just stop. You’re making yourself look really bad on this one.


----------



## One Shed

It is not just Kidney Day, it is Kidney Day EVE where everyone knows you get to unwrap and drink one beer before the big day!


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 470,000
18-49: 0.12

#28 on cable. A drop in viewers from last week's unexpected high, but still the second-most viewed Rampage since 10/21. Key demo dropped to a three-week low, however.

This was probably the first time ever that Rampage was up YoY in total viewers.

*Last two months*

12/23: 566,000 / 0.18
12/16: 464,000 / 0.15
12/9: 457,000 / 0.11
12/2: 361,000 / 0.08
11/25: 411,000 / 0.11
11/18: 445,000 / 0.14
11/11: 456,000 / 0.11
11/4: 455,000 / 0.14


----------



## Saintpat

You’d think a few people would switch over after a SD that drew a massive 2.6M.

Tony should tweet about this being the night that Rampage and WWE combined to draw more than 6M eyeballs to pro wrestling. Kinda like that guy who scored 2 points in an NBA game and said it was the night that he and Michael Jordan combined for 71 points or whatever it was.


----------



## Geeee

Wolf Mark said:


> The only thing that was demonstrated is that you live in your own little dream World. They had better ratings at the beginning. That's a fact. Going from 1.5 to 900 is not growth. Going from 1 to 3 viewers is growth. If a sport player started his career making 350 thousand. And then his next contract he gets 300, that means his bosses don't see growth in his play. It's a RE-GRE-SSION.
> 
> Not only that but bear in mind that before NXT left on Wednesdays, the actual Dynamite number was 675K.


If a player scores 3 touchdowns in his first ever game but never scores 3 touchdowns in a single game again, however he does score more total touchdowns in season 2 and season 3 than he did in season 1, has the player regressed or progressed?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Rampage lost the Friday Night War by over 2 million viewers. 😳


----------



## One Shed

Geeee said:


> If a player scores 3 touchdowns in his first ever game but never scores 3 touchdowns in a single game again, however he does score more total touchdowns in season 2 and season 3 than he did in season 1, has the player regressed or progressed?


Clearly the person in question here will never be as good as Al Bundy.


----------



## bdon

One Shed said:


> Clearly the person in question here will never be as good as Al Bundy.


Polk High baby!!!


----------



## kentl

Just gonna say that QH raitings can be BOTH things


I.e there are people who watch something and turn it off as soon what they don't like comes on
And there are people who turn off after watching something they didn't like.
Both have huge amount of people who do it and it's impossible to actually know which way each individual QH is

Just like there is people who walk out of a movie, a play or anything really and other will sit through it but aitll not enjoy it. They may wait till a break to leave etc


----------



## bdon

kentl said:


> Just gonna say that QH raitings can be BOTH things
> 
> 
> I.e there are people who watch something and turn it off as soon what they don't like comes on
> And there are people who turn off after watching something they didn't like.
> Both have huge amount of people who do it and it's impossible to actually know which way each individual QH is
> 
> Just like there is people who walk out of a movie, a play or anything really and other will sit through it but aitll not enjoy it. They may wait till a break to leave etc


Then we can blame literally anyone for the ratings drops.


----------



## kentl

bdon said:


> Then we can blame literally anyone for the ratings drops.


That's the point. It's NEVER always one reason why. That's not how the world works. 

You can look at patterns to get an idea but the idea that evrey single person views tv the same and will all always turn off for the exact same reason st the same time is crazy


----------



## bdon

kentl said:


> That's the point. It's NEVER always one reason why. That's not how the world works.
> 
> You can look at patterns to get an idea but the idea that evrey single person views tv the same and will all always turn off for the exact same reason st the same time is crazy


Then people might want to stop pretending they know certain people “run off hundreds of thousands of viewers each week!!”


----------



## kentl

bdon said:


> Then people might want to stop pretending they know certain people “run off hundreds of thousands of viewers each week!!”


I agree with that. If you watch patterns you could get a better id3a but absolutes are impossible to have.

My whole point were both sides were saying only their way of watching counted and both sides happen 

Now if you have mutiple times where something losses viewers it could show a pattern but one week alone can't tell you anything without knowing the person who actually turned away and why


----------



## Mister Sinister

bdon said:


> No, they had TWO fucking minutes of that 826k quarter hour. TWO. Do you realize they average this shit out over a 15 minute period? If there was going to be a viewership loss due to the Elite, it would have occurred the 15 minutes prior, not the final two.
> 
> Just stop. You’re making yourself look really bad on this one.


Every quarter is affected by the previous just like the whole show is affected by the previous week. And we can all put down big money that next week's ratings will continue to suck after this limp dick show tonight.


----------



## bdon

Mister Sinister said:


> Every quarter is affected by the previous just like the whole show is affected by the previous week. And we can all put down big money that next week's ratings will continue to suck after this limp dick show tonight.


Well, we must be back to old school AEW, because I loved that episode, minus Shida getting geeked.


----------



## Aedubya

.92 prediction


----------



## CovidFan

I'll say 915k for a precise number

I think this edition will get 875-975k and next week will get a big bump because it's a hyped show from LA plus coming off of this hot Dynamite. I think getting < 1.05m next week would be a huge disappointment.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

950k / 0.32


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Watch it be a good rating, because no awful best of 7 match was on the card! lol


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611105945328799745


----------



## GlisteningSnow

Damn why such a shitty number after all that hype?


----------



## bdon

GlisteningSnow said:


> Damn why such a shitty number after all that hype?


Just wait for it: someone is going to explain how it is The Elite’s fault.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

GlisteningSnow said:


> Damn why such a shitty number after all that hype?


Wait until next week and really see what the ratings will be with possibly Sasha debuting(everyone expecting her to debut next week so ratings should go up next week)


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Well, I'm diapponted with that number for both viewers and demo. That show deserved a much better rating but what can you do. Next week should def. show a big increase. One hopes,at least.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

why does america have no taste?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> Watch it be a good rating, because no awful best of 7 match was on the card! lol


no best of 7, bad number

….. what now?


----------



## kingfunkel

Surprisingly low. With the new revamp and stuff I was expecting it to be close to 1m.

Usually the number of this weeks episode, is based off how good the previous weeks show was.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no best of 7, bad number
> 
> ….. what now?


The Elite wrestled a match that one time, don’t you remember..? Fans didn’t want to watch over that one time…


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> The Elite wrestled a match that one time, don’t you remember..? Fans didn’t want to watch over that one time…


its the quarter hour from last week having a carry-on effect


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its the quarter hour from last week having a carry-on effect


Ah. That’s right.


----------



## Nothing Finer

GlisteningSnow said:


> Damn why such a shitty number after all that hype?


Bird's Day Eve, nobody watches television then.


----------



## 3venflow

Disappointing number, particularly the key demo although that was still enough to rank them #4 on cable. I don't have any explanation as I think the recent shows have been great. Better formatting, pacing, wrestling and now, production, than before. Live sports obviously eats into wrestling but they can still do better than this even with sports opposite them. NBA didn't do amazing or anything either.

Here's the Nielsen ranking.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Disappointing number, particularly the key demo although that was still enough to rank them #4 on cable. I don't have any explanation as I think the recent shows have been great. Better formatting, pacing, wrestling and now, production, than before. Live sports obviously eats into wrestling but they can still do better than this even with sports opposite them.


it amazes me that this number still got a top 4

feels like 2 years ago this would be a position 15 to 20


----------



## Rankles75

If you want a bump in ratings, you have to make an effort. Tony’s been coasting it for weeks.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Rankles75 said:


> If you want a bump in ratings, you have to make an effort. Tony’s been coasting it for weeks.


puleeeze, last 5 weeks have been great tv


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it amazes me that this number still got a top 4
> 
> feels like 2 years ago this would be a position 15 to 20


The NBA barely getting past 1m is the biggest shocker to me. That is WILD.


----------



## Saintpat

GlisteningSnow said:


> Damn why such a shitty number after all that hype?


Serious question: What was hyped? New furniture?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> The NBA barely getting past 1m is the biggest shocker to me. That is WILD.


where’s that guy that said it was the 3rd biggest sport in the world… can’t even catch far over milly  😂


----------



## Sad Panda

Rankles75 said:


> If you want a bump in ratings, you have to make an effort. Tony’s been coasting it for weeks.


youre wrong, AEW has been great as of late. Although, after the scrum, AEW television was bad. I wonder if that has ultimately bit them in the butt.. they seemed to have lost a good deal of viewers in that span.


----------



## Saintpat

bdon said:


> Just wait for it: someone is going to explain how it is The Elite’s fault.


No, it’s Tony’s fault.

You show the exact same match every single week — and hype it as a long series, big deal — and people start tuning out. I didn’t know last night wasn’t going to have the trios match because I just assume they are going to have that same match every week until the world ends because they’ve had it every week going back to like Halloween or Thanksgiving.

They should have done a big ad campaign on the stations and social media telling people that for once they weren’t going to have the same trios match and hope the people it’s driven away have enough courage to come back and see what they are showing.


----------



## bdon

R


Saintpat said:


> No, it’s Tony’s fault.
> 
> You show the exact same match every single week — and hype it as a long series, big deal — and people start tuning out. I didn’t know last night wasn’t going to have the trios match because I just assume they are going to have that same match every week until the world ends because they’ve had it every week going back to like Halloween or Thanksgiving.
> 
> They should have done a big ad campaign on the stations and social media telling people that for once they weren’t going to have the same trios match and hope the people it’s driven away have enough courage to come back and see what they are showing.


See. Right on cue. It’s the Elite’s fault.


----------



## Rankles75

LifeInCattleClass said:


> puleeeze, last 5 weeks have been great tv


Seems a lot of viewers disagree. 🤔


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no best of 7, bad number
> 
> ….. what now?


Not sure, but even I am surprised by that low number...Not good


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Rankles75 said:


> Seems a lot of viewers disagree. 🤔


uncouth ingrates devoid of taste or class

we can’t be swayed by the filth of common folk


----------



## NathanMayberry

Guys the rating is fine…

It was. _checks notes_ Birds’ Day Eve which is the 31st most important Wednesday of the year!

This rating was better than expected! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chan Hung

They are having a hard time growing that number. Have they done enough damage for this? With a new year, new presentation..it may be a fact. I was expecting a higher number. The show was not bad.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Maybe MJF aint the draw we think he is? Then again he never wrestles and just cuts the same damn promo every week at this rate.....Booking needs to do better all around.


----------



## holy

There's nothing MUST SEE on Dynamite. That's the real problem.


----------



## 3venflow

MJF should definitely be made to wrestle more. Plenty of his matches have done fine ratings and the champion usually does some of the best numbers. The 'special attraction' shtick bewilders me when you have bigger stars like Jericho, Mox, Danielson and Omega wrestling nearly every week. I get the sense it isn't even a kayfabe thing as he's spoken about wanting to be healthy in his 40s. How would he do the WWE grind of 80~100 shows per year?

From a drawing perspective, perhaps AEW lacks its true ace. I mean, a cool and marketable guy. Moxley is anti-hero, Hangman has the appearance but is too vulnerable and anxious, Danielson is too nerdy, Wardlow is just missing intangibles at this stage, Darby is too small/niche. They have nailed down next-gen stars for the women (Hayter), tag teams (Acclaimed) and heel side (MJF). There is no babyface equivalent yet and I think that could make a big difference. They're trying with Starks but I'm not sure he'll ever be 'the man'. Dare I suggest, sign MJF's buddy Alexander Hammerstone and push the fuck out of him as a badass babyface action hero.


----------



## RLT1981

What happen Dammit C?

You told me after the new year AEW ratings would get back to one million

haha I tried to tell you that was not going to happen casuals don't care about ring work.They care about storylines and all AEW offers is spot fest after spot fest matches that only smarks like yourself enjoy.


----------



## Dark Emperor

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> Maybe MJF aint the draw we think he is? Then again he never wrestles and just cuts the same damn promo every week at this rate.....Booking needs to do better all around.


MJF has no history of being a significant draw. This is the long term effect of Punk and viewers losing interest.


----------



## bdon

Dark Emperor said:


> MJF has no history of being a significant draw. This is the long term effect of Punk and viewers losing interest.


What happened at All Out stole a lot of goodwill from fans. Elite and Punk fans alike, Tony pretty much shit on all of them. No matter who you liked, you feel as though TK did your party wrong.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it’s awfully hard to imagine working for someone like TK after what he allowed Punk to do.


----------



## RLT1981

Dark Emperor said:


> MJF has no history of being a significant draw. This is the long term effect of Punk and viewers losing interest.


no its the effect of not having any storylines and just match after match you are not going to draw in casuals doing that.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

bdon said:


> What happened at All Out stole a lot of goodwill from fans. Elite and Punk fans alike, Tony pretty much shit on all of them. No matter who you liked, you feel as though TK did your party wrong.
> 
> I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it’s awfully hard to imagine working for someone like TK after what he allowed Punk to do.


Wow we actually agree on something!


----------



## 3venflow

RLT1981 said:


> no its the effect of not having any storylines and just match after match you are not going to draw in casuals doing that.


They have plenty of storylines. Last night, they did a pretty kickass promo duel between MJF and Danielson to tentatively set up a match at the next PPV.

Hangman and Moxley had a face-to-face and have been brawling for weeks.

Britt/Hayter had a sit-down interview where they championed themselves as homegrown heroes.

The tag title match had a storyline leading in (the raps, Caster bringing up Karen Jarrett) and controversial finish, setting up a NHB blow-off match tomorrow.

Saraya/Shida/Toni had a sit-down interview where Saraya chose Toni and Shida looked PISSED.

JAS beat down Starks and the new kid Action after Starks pinned Jericho in the opener.

The Gunn Club came out to do a mock funeral for FTR, who have been losing all of their matches lately.

It's dumb to say they have no storylines. They have a lot of them. 51 of the 120 minutes yesterday went to match time.


----------



## Saintpat

bdon said:


> R
> 
> See. Right on cue. It’s the Elite’s fault.


Your eyes read the words ‘it’s Tony’s fault’ … and somehow your brain translates that to me saying it’s the Elite’s fault?

SMFH.


----------



## Saintpat

RLT1981 said:


> no its the effect of not having any storylines and just match after match you are not going to draw in casuals doing that.


And what did they announce for Rampage/Battle of the Who Cares/next week’s Dynamite? A bunch of matches in a void of meaninglessness.

Gee, can’t wait.


----------



## BettsyUK

Damn, deserved much higher. Really enjoyable dynamite, hot crowd, some good promo's and enjoyable matches.

It had some old school wcw vibes at times for me.

TK has definitely got some more support with the booking of dynamite. The quality has gone up a notch in terms of presentation, recurring themes of storytelling between rivals and match endings seem less farfetched.

Though I'd argue Starkes should have been out from that baseball bat with Jericho getting the dirty win.


----------



## Saintpat

3venflow said:


> They have plenty of storylines. Last night, they did a pretty kickass promo duel between MJF and Danielson to tentatively set up a match at the next PPV.
> 
> Hangman and Moxley had a face-to-face and have been brawling for weeks.
> 
> Britt/Hayter had a sit-down interview where they championed themselves as homegrown heroes.
> 
> The tag title match had a storyline leading in (the raps, Caster bringing up Karen Jarrett) and controversial finish, setting up a NHB blow-off match tomorrow.
> 
> Saraya/Shida/Toni had a sit-down interview where Saraya chose Toni and Shida looked PISSED.
> 
> JAS beat down Starks and the new kid Action after Starks pinned Jericho in the opener.
> 
> The Gunn Club came out to do a mock funeral for FTR, who have been losing all of their matches lately.
> 
> It's dumb to say they have no storylines. They have a lot of them. 51 of the 120 minutes yesterday went to match time.


We define storylines differently. You seem to define it as ‘any interaction.’

What’s the story behind MJF and Bryan? They might have a match, tentatively? Where’s the tension and the reason I should care? Because Bryan finally won a couple matches?

Hangman and Mox: I’ve been knocked out more times than you. That doesn’t excite me as a compelling reason to watch the match unless I’m a fan of CTE.

Britt/Hayter sat down and ‘positioned themselves as homegrown heroes’: How does that make me want to watch a match or see more?

I’ll give you the tag title as a reason to watch the next match but what’s the story exactly? Why should I care about these characters as far as some kind of friction/tension? Because Karen Jarrett? Please.

Toni revealed as ‘mystery partner’ = OK, she’s not Sasha, which is what everyone wants to see. I’m going to tune in to hopefully see Shida take out the mystery partner they finally revealed in hopes that the mixed reports of Sasha/Mercedes turn out to be her actually showing up and participating in a match … but maybe she won’t. And if she doesn’t … what’s interesting about it now?

JAS beatdown is not a storyline. It’s the last 9 months (or is it 18?) on a loop.

FTR loses a match in Japan and that’s a storyline for AEW? My lord.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

Yeah Bryan was literally jobbing to lesser talent before this MJF feud and now all of a sudden he's in the title picture with no real history with MJF. I enjoy MJF more personal feuds. Again just bad booking


----------



## omaroo

I cant ever seem them consistently doing 1m plus anymore.

TK is the one to blame as he has driven away viewers specifically with the debacle of the All out scrum where he proved what an utter moronic incompetent boss he really is.

You only have good will for so long. If you fuck that up then you will pay the price and we are seeing that now.

No matter how good the product is now and may be in months going forward getting those fans back after how TK exposed himself as a boss will be near impossible.


----------



## CovidFan

Rankles75 said:


> If you want a bump in ratings, you have to make an effort. Tony’s been coasting it for weeks.


Tony: changes set and puts on a way way way above average show.
AEW Hater: Tony's coasting


----------



## 3venflow

Saintpat said:


> We define storylines differently. You seem to define it as ‘any interaction.’
> 
> What’s the story behind MJF and Bryan? They might have a match, tentatively? Where’s the tension and the reason I should care? Because Bryan finally won a couple matches?


MJF betrayed and risked the life of Danielson's hero, William Regal, sending him out of AEW in an ambulance. Danielson hates his guts for that and literally chased MJF into the crowd. A pretty logical reason.



> Hangman and Mox: I’ve been knocked out more times than you. That doesn’t excite me as a compelling reason to watch the match unless I’m a fan of CTE.


Hangman explained that he wasn't pissed off at Mox for concussing him, he was pissed off at Mox for joking about something that nearly changed his life. It's personal, it's a storyline.



> Britt/Hayter sat down and ‘positioned themselves as homegrown heroes’: How does that make me want to watch a match or see more?


Britt and Saraya have a pre-existing feud and this is just a continuation of that. It has been largely built around Britt feeling offended/threatened by the outsiders coming in and acting like they can just have the keys to the castle. Saraya is also aiming for Hayter's women's title.



> I’ll give you the tag title as a reason to watch the next match but what’s the story exactly? Why should I care about these characters as far as some kind of friction/tension? Because Karen Jarrett? Please.


Because they don't like each other? What exactly is your idea then? Should Jarrett and Lethal break into Caster's house and burn his rap LPs? Is insulting a man and his wife not enough of a starting point for a feud? Now you have the Dusty finish making Triple J feel aggrieved, leading to the probable blow-off match tomorrow night.



> JAS beatdown is not a storyline. It’s the last 9 months (or is it 18?) on a loop.


It's still a storyline. It is a story fueling a feud, whether it sucks or is great.

Jericho, after dropping the ROH World Title, wanted a 'jobber' to face and got Action. Action beat and humiliated him. Action got a fireball to the face. Meanwhile, Jericho wanted to recruit Starks to the JAS and got shut down badly. Starks and Action have both now humiliated Jericho by defeating him, who has a big ego and a faction named in his honour. He can't handle it with grace and hence his faction destroyed the two yesterday.



> FTR loses a match in Japan and that’s a storyline for AEW? My lord.


They have lost all three of their titles, lost an AEW tag title shot AND lost to the Gunns in their past five matches. This was the Gunns pouring salt on their wounds. Losing streaks for a top tag team can be a storyline just like winning streaks can. Moreover, the Gunns have been mocking FTR for months in backstage segments. This could be the start of a redemption arc for FTR or just part of them being on their way out.

These are all storylines. They may not be the most elaborate or storylines tailored to your expectations, but they are stories behind matches. I'm not sure what a storyline is to you if these are not storylines. Does the WWE format of wrestlers playing poker backstage, getting pissed off, and setting up a same-day match qualify as a storyline for you? Does that make you care about the wrestlers? Does Bray facing his manifested alter egos/family make you care about him more than MJF?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

AEW Dynamite last night (1/4) drew 864,000 live and same-night viewers, down from 876,000 last week and 957,000 the prior week. One year ago on the Jan. 5 episode to start 2022, Dynamite drew 1,010,000 viewers.

In the key 18-49 demo, it drew a 0.26 rating, down from 0.28 and 0.30 the prior two weeks. One year ago to start 2022, Dynamite drew a 0.43 rating in that key demo.









AEW Dynamite viewership and key demo rating down from last week, way down from year ago - Pro Wrestling Torch


AEW Dynamite last night (1/4) drew 864,000 live and same-night viewers, down from 876,000 last week and 957,000 the prior week. One year ago on the Jan. 5 episode to start 2022, Dynamite drew 1,010,000 [...]




www.pwtorch.com





Brutal.


----------



## The real Axel

Hotdiggity11 said:


> AEW Dynamite last night (1/4) drew 864,000 live and same-night viewers, down from 876,000 last week and 957,000 the prior week. One year ago on the Jan. 5 episode to start 2022, Dynamite drew 1,010,000 viewers.
> 
> In the key 18-49 demo, it drew a 0.26 rating, down from 0.28 and 0.30 the prior two weeks. One year ago to start 2022, Dynamite drew a 0.43 rating in that key demo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Dynamite viewership and key demo rating down from last week, way down from year ago - Pro Wrestling Torch
> 
> 
> AEW Dynamite last night (1/4) drew 864,000 live and same-night viewers, down from 876,000 last week and 957,000 the prior week. One year ago on the Jan. 5 episode to start 2022, Dynamite drew 1,010,000 [...]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pwtorch.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brutal.


But think of the year on year growth!!!!! 

The ship continues to sink. I'm glad to be along for the ride.


----------



## Rankles75

CovidFan said:


> Tony: changes set and puts on a way way way above average show.
> AEW Hater: Tony's coasting


My God, he changed the set?! That should have had the people tuning in in their droves. AEW has a ridiculously deep roster, yet Tony keeps giving valuable airtime to people who viewers don’t give a shit about, as well as badly misusing some of the better guys like Wardlow. Current results speak for themselves. 

There’s zero reason an even half-way competent booker shouldn’t be able to be consistently around (or slightly over) 1m viewers at this point, and with the talent at his disposal.


----------



## Serpico Jones

AEW doesn’t have any stars. Kenny Omega is not a star, Jon Moxley is not a star, Chris Jericho is old and fat. CM Punk was the biggest star in the company and they ran him off.

Disaster.


----------



## CovidFan

Rankles75 said:


> My God, he changed the set?! That should have had the people tuning in in their droves.


So you think he shouldn't have made the change? You said he was coasting. Obviously a set change isn't going to rocket ship ratings but do you think a nicer set is a good thing over time? Thus changing something for the better and not coasting?

As for the rest of your post, last night's show was, as I said, way way way above average which indicates he's not coasting and is putting in effort...


----------



## bdon

Serpico Jones said:


> AEW doesn’t have any stars. Kenny Omega is not a star, Jon Moxley is not a star, Chris Jericho is old and fat. CM Punk was the biggest star in the company and they ran him off.
> 
> Disaster.


Ratings say otherwise. Punk is not a needle mover, and you people need to stop pretending that he is.


----------



## Geeee

I don't really understand ratings. To me, Dynamite has been solid every week since the PPV


----------



## bdon

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> Wow we actually agree on something!


I stay steadfast in my “Fuck Phil Brooks” beliefs, though. Cody Rhodes too. Terry Bollea third. Lol


----------



## 3venflow

WBD's major cuts are over and done with. Their focus is shifting to new content now.









Warner Bros. Discovery says it’s done killing shows and movies just for tax write-offs


After a year of cancellations and restructuring, Warner Bros. Discovery wants to move forward.




www.theverge.com


----------



## Sad Panda

BestInTheWorld312 said:


> Yeah Bryan was literally jobbing to lesser talent before this MJF feud and now all of a sudden he's in the title picture with no real history with MJF. I enjoy MJF more personal feuds. Again just bad booking


MJF sent his hero to the hospital after a sneak attack. How does it get more personal than that?


----------



## bdon

Sad Panda said:


> MJF sent his hero to the hospital after a sneak attack. How does it get more personal than that?


“Wins and losses matter…”


----------



## Saintpat

3venflow said:


> MJF betrayed and risked the life of Danielson's hero, William Regal, sending him out of AEW in an ambulance. Danielson hates his guts for that and literally chased MJF into the crowd. A pretty logical reason.
> 
> 
> 
> Hangman explained that he wasn't pissed off at Mox for concussing him, he was pissed off at Mox for joking about something that nearly changed his life. It's personal, it's a storyline.
> 
> 
> 
> Britt and Saraya have a pre-existing feud and this is just a continuation of that. It has been largely built around Britt feeling offended/threatened by the outsiders coming in and acting like they can just have the keys to the castle. Saraya is also aiming for Hayter's women's title.
> 
> 
> 
> Because they don't like each other? What exactly is your idea then? Should Jarrett and Lethal break into Caster's house and burn his rap LPs? Is insulting a man and his wife not enough of a starting point for a feud? Now you have the Dusty finish making Triple J feel aggrieved, leading to the probable blow-off match tomorrow night.
> 
> 
> 
> It's still a storyline. It is a story fueling a feud, whether it sucks or is great.
> 
> Jericho, after dropping the ROH World Title, wanted a 'jobber' to face and got Action. Action beat and humiliated him. Action got a fireball to the face. Meanwhile, Jericho wanted to recruit Starks to the JAS and got shut down badly. Starks and Action have both now humiliated Jericho by defeating him, who has a big ego and a faction named in his honour. He can't handle it with grace and hence his faction destroyed the two yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> They have lost all three of their titles, lost an AEW tag title shot AND lost to the Gunns in their past five matches. This was the Gunns pouring salt on their wounds. Losing streaks for a top tag team can be a storyline just like winning streaks can. Moreover, the Gunns have been mocking FTR for months in backstage segments. This could be the start of a redemption arc for FTR or just part of them being on their way out.
> 
> These are all storylines. They may not be the most elaborate or storylines tailored to your expectations, but they are stories behind matches. I'm not sure what a storyline is to you if these are not storylines. Does the WWE format of wrestlers playing poker backstage, getting pissed off, and setting up a same-day match qualify as a storyline for you? Does that make you care about the wrestlers? Does Bray facing his manifested alter egos/family make you care about him more than MJF?


Why does someone always have to drag WWE into it? Whataboutism. What does Bray have to do with whether AEW has compelling storylines or not?

Seems like half of what you said is ‘they have a long-running feud’ — but a feud over WHAT? That’s the point.

The Sarayah thing to me sums up AEW ‘booking’ — new person comes in, previous person is ‘offended’ or ‘threatened’ even though that person hasn’t really done anything to make themselves a threat. Oh, and she’s also pursuing something else (Hayter’s title) … like stick to one thing and flesh it out and make it an actual story. Have someone (anyone) arrive from WWE and instead of pandering to AEW fans by saying something bad about WWE (hi Sarayah) have them say ‘I’m a big fish who came from the big pond but now I’m swimming with minnows, this is a minor league promotion and I’m a major league player.’ That taps into AEW’s identity and taps into a fan base that mostly hates WWE … yet every single former WWE talent comes in and plays to the crowd instead of playing to the natural heat that’s there waiting to be grabbed — then the AEW ‘homegrown heroes’ can stand up to show this IS a major league promotion to put them in their place. 

“They insulted his wife.” Why did they insult his wife. What’s the motivation here?

MJF betrayed Regal who … betrayed the BCC (thus also Danielson) so now he’s got to avenge the guy who betrayed him? Yet another convoluted basis for a feud.

“I’ve been knocked out more times than I can count and you made a joke about it (while also pointing out you’ve been knocked out) so … I must destroy you?” C’mon man. That’s not a story. That’s a line to put in a promo to try to invent a reason to feud.

If they want to make a story about Jericho’s cherry pick gone wrong and have him feud with Action Jobber Boy and try to completely destroy the guy for humiliating him, that’s something I can sink my teeth into. But no, we have to make it ‘also he tried to recruit Starks so let’s throw Starks in there too and have Jericho feud with both and …’ probably play it out over the next 12 months. Why does Stark have to be in there? What’s the point of convoluting the storyline?

Also, most of FTR’s losing streak has happened in other promotions or over belts of other promotions. That’s textbook AEW: go google up all these titles and all these promotions and all these results and then you’ll understand why the Gunns are making fun of them — no, I don’t. Why aren’t the Gunns trying to win the AEW titles instead of trying to feud with a team that now has NO titles? They should have been Gunning for them to try to take some gold when they had it … now they have nothing and it just makes no sense.

Just like ‘let’s have Joe wreck Wardlow and then we’ll have Darby beat Joe’ … taking Wardlow down a peg just to have the guy who took him down lose. No thought to what’s next as usual.

Which is kind of how AEW booking goes. ‘Hey, we’ll half-ass throw some lines in promos to create a match’ but it’s really ‘we think this will be a good match and that’s the real justification.’ 

Read some books, Tony. Watch some movies. Heck, read some comic books. Give two sides a realistic beef (like MJF getting rejected by Regal was a perfect storyline … only problem being Regal can’t wrestle anymore so no real payoff, kinda like Miro vs. God and God isn’t going to put Miro over so what’s the payoff, lol; or like the Bucks and FTR being from two completely different schools of thought and it’s an ideological battle over what tag wrestling should be) and the rest of this writes itself. 

Just start with simple basics: give two people a real reason to not like each other and let it play out; don’t shoehorn in ‘oh and he or she is also feuding on the side with so-and-so over no real reason’ to dilute it and clog it up.


----------



## bdon

Saintpat said:


> Why does someone always have to drag WWE into it? Whataboutism. What does Bray have to do with whether AEW has compelling storylines or not?
> 
> Seems like half of what you said is ‘they have a long-running feud’ — but a feud over WHAT? That’s the point.
> 
> The Sarayah thing to me sums up AEW ‘booking’ — new person comes in, previous person is ‘offended’ or ‘threatened’ even though that person hasn’t really done anything to make themselves a threat. Oh, and she’s also pursuing something else (Hayter’s title) … like stick to one thing and flesh it out and make it an actual story. Have someone (anyone) arrive from WWE and instead of pandering to AEW fans by saying something bad about WWE (hi Sarayah) have them say ‘I’m a big fish who came from the big pond but now I’m swimming with minnows, this is a minor league promotion and I’m a major league player.’ That taps into AEW’s identity and taps into a fan base that mostly hates WWE … yet every single former WWE talent comes in and plays to the crowd instead of playing to the natural heat that’s there waiting to be grabbed — then the AEW ‘homegrown heroes’ can stand up to show this IS a major league promotion to put them in their place.
> 
> “They insulted his wife.” Why did they insult his wife. What’s the motivation here?
> 
> MJF betrayed Regal who … betrayed the BCC (thus also Danielson) so now he’s got to avenge the guy who betrayed him? Yet another convoluted basis for a feud.
> 
> “I’ve been knocked out more times than I can count and you made a joke about it (while also pointing out you’ve been knocked out) so … I must destroy you?” C’mon man. That’s not a story. That’s a line to put in a promo to try to invent a reason to feud.
> 
> If they want to make a story about Jericho’s cherry pick gone wrong and have him feud with Action Jobber Boy and try to completely destroy the guy for humiliating him, that’s something I can sink my teeth into. But no, we have to make it ‘also he tried to recruit Starks so let’s throw Starks in there too and have Jericho feud with both and …’ probably play it out over the next 12 months. Why does Stark have to be in there? What’s the point of convoluting the storyline?
> 
> Also, most of FTR’s losing streak has happened in other promotions or over belts of other promotions. That’s textbook AEW: go google up all these titles and all these promotions and all these results and then you’ll understand why the Gunns are making fun of them — no, I don’t. Why aren’t the Gunns trying to win the AEW titles instead of trying to feud with a team that now has NO titles? They should have been Gunning for them to try to take some gold when they had it … now they have nothing and it just makes no sense.
> 
> Just like ‘let’s have Joe wreck Wardlow and then we’ll have Darby beat Joe’ … taking Wardlow down a peg just to have the guy who took him down lose. No thought to what’s next as usual.
> 
> Which is kind of how AEW booking goes. ‘Hey, we’ll half-ass throw some lines in promos to create a match’ but it’s really ‘we think this will be a good match and that’s the real justification.’
> 
> Read some books, Tony. Watch some movies. Heck, read some comic books. Give two sides a realistic beef (like MJF getting rejected by Regal was a perfect storyline … only problem being Regal can’t wrestle anymore so no real payoff, kinda like Miro vs. God and God isn’t going to put Miro over so what’s the payoff, lol; or like the Bucks and FTR being from two completely different schools of thought and it’s an ideological battle over what tag wrestling should be) and the rest of this writes itself.
> 
> Just start with simple basics: give two people a real reason to not like each other and let it play out; don’t shoehorn in ‘oh and he or she is also feuding on the side with so-and-so over no real reason’ to dilute it and clog it up.


Tony really does come off like a guy who has never once watched a movie, cartoon, or any sort of fictional entertainment.

I harp on this all of the time, but if he wanted to make Dynamite must-see, he’d watch a shit ton of Adam West’s Batman, learn that format, and apply it within the confines of a wrestling universe.

This shit isn’t that hard, but the OG IWC ring leader just wants to get his favorite toys into the ring; how they get there be damned.


----------



## Jay Trotter

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no best of 7, bad number
> 
> ….. what now?


Who's to say it wouldn't have been worse with them? The Elite have lost viewers in seven of their eight trio matches on Dynamite in 2022 despite two of those ballet classes being heavily promoted returns in Aug and Nov. And the only one that did not was when they booked themselves to open the show few weeks ago so it was impossible to lose viewers.


----------



## Joe Gill

this was a good episode of dynamite.... on paper next week should be good as well..... the key is consistency.... they have to put together a string of 5 or 6 episodes in a row that are story driven involving the top stars and not a bunch of roh or indy spotfest trash.... if they do that they can reach a million again.


----------



## Braylyt

Not suprised by the low number tbh

People have been going to the gym for 4 days now as part of their new year's resolutions and are already more jacked than 90% of the roster

It's kinda wank watching guys fight you could beat up with your pinky toe


----------



## Nothing Finer

I tuned in to look at the new set but once I'd seen it I switched off. There were some things I was interested in seeing - MJF's appearance, what was happening between Moxley and Page, Caster's rap - but there so much shit and ads you've got to sit through to get to it. Why bother when you can just watch it on YouTube the next day?


----------



## Saintpat

bdon said:


> Tony really does come off like a guy who has never once watched a movie, cartoon, or any sort of fictional entertainment.
> 
> I harp on this all of the time, but if he wanted to make Dynamite must-see, he’d watch a shit ton of Adam West’s Batman, learn that format, and apply it within the confines of a wrestling universe.
> 
> This shit isn’t that hard, but the OG IWC ring leader just wants to get his favorite toys into the ring; how they get there be damned.


Cartoons is a good point.

Sylvester wants Tweety because Tweety is a bird and Sylvester is a cat. Cats beat birds and bird doesn’t want to be eaten = story.

Tony wouldn’t get it.


----------



## Saintpat

3venflow said:


> WBD's major cuts are over and done with. Their focus is shifting to new content now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Warner Bros. Discovery says it’s done killing shows and movies just for tax write-offs
> 
> 
> After a year of cancellations and restructuring, Warner Bros. Discovery wants to move forward.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theverge.com


Done for now.

They’ll have a new tax bill next quarter or next year (most businesses of that size pay quarterly I think).


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Who is a subscriber?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611170445729959936


----------



## Mister Sinister

This is a terrible number given TNA used to see a swell in January, and given Warner ran the biggest ad campaign for AEW since probably its debut. I saw the commercials multiple times.

This is the decay of the audience due to the color by number booking. Tony needs professional writers that understand what narrative is, how to break a story, how to pace a tv show and how to hook viewers.

Tony is filling up air time with long matches because he is too lazy or too busy to spend even an hour trying to come up with something different from the structure of the previous 52 weeks where he just filled in the same card format with different matches. 



Sad Panda said:


> MJF sent his hero to the hospital after a sneak attack. How does it get more personal than that?


Did they open last night with a recap of this (I missed the opening)? I doubt they did. I doubt they brought this up multiple times during the show (when I was flipping to another channel).

What I'm getting at is that the show never opens with a story, continues it in the middle of the show, finishes with the same story and then leaves us needing to see what happens with that story the next week.

What I saw was MJF and Danielson in one segment and done. This was the same for everyone on the show. There is no story. To have a story, it has to be driving the whole show.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8




----------



## bdon

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


>


According to @Mister Sinister logic, the MJF and Danielson promo killed Dynamite, because 90k fans watched them and hated it, turning it off AFTERWARDS, and refusing to return.


----------



## Mister Sinister

bdon said:


> According to @Mister Sinister logic, the MJF and Danielson promo killed Dynamite, because 90k fans watched them and hated it, turning it off AFTERWARDS, and refusing to return.


When your quarter is losing and the next quarter is down, it demonstrates a slide during that quarter though we don't get to see minute to minute ratings.

Danielson's rating might have jumped up to a million and then fell dramatically below 800k as the audience tuned out.

It's not about Danielson or Elite, it's about the booking. They lost over 200k viewers from the start of the show.


----------



## Saintpat

Tony’s going to take the lasers and new set and book all of that into the death slot for the women’s match going forward. He learned his lesson.

Rest of the show will just have a series of tunnels for the set to keep the hardcore happy.


----------



## Top bins

I think AEW needs to stick mostly to what's doing. Mainly the right guys are on top. On Dynamite. 

Swerve, Starks getting deserved pushes. Acclaimed being featured. 

Limited Yuta, Garcia and Cipperley. Which has seen the show become much better. 

They need to stay the course and not react. 

Mainly the right guys are being featured on Dynamite.


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> What happened at All Out stole a lot of goodwill from fans. Elite and Punk fans alike, Tony pretty much shit on all of them. No matter who you liked, you feel as though TK did your party wrong.
> 
> I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it’s awfully hard to imagine working for someone like TK after what he allowed Punk to do.


What TK did wrong was allow those rumors to grow and grow instead of fucking addressing them.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


>


lookit Darby being a real one


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

LifeInCattleClass said:


> where’s that guy that said it was the 3rd biggest sport in the world… can’t even catch far over milly  😂


These are US ratings, using that argument soccer isn't popular globally since it's ratings in the US outside the World Cup are much lower than the NBA's.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> These are US ratings, using that argument soccer isn't popular globally since it's ratings in the US outside the World Cup are much lower than the NBA's.


except, USA is not 'soccer's' home nation - its ratings in other countries far exceed this

you lads invented dribble ball, and its the MOST popular there than anywhere else - but still hardly a milly

NBA = AEW basically

sad


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

AEW in the fucking tank. Jesus Christ, what a massacre.


----------



## Joe Gill

if aew didnt have the strong lead in from big bang theory every week its ratings would be in the toilet right now


----------



## Kishido

Awesome numbers!!! Demo King for life!

If not for _insert something_ they would have easily 1m+


----------



## -PartsUnknown-

MJF has to be one of the most boring world champions ever. The man barely wrestles and cuts the same promos and has the same story line over and over.


----------



## T99

Joe Gill said:


> if aew didnt have the strong lead in from big bang theory every week its ratings would be in the toilet right now


Sheldon Cooper is AEWs real biggest star. He is the ratings god.


----------



## shandcraig

Saintpat said:


> Tony’s going to take the lasers and new set and book all of that into the death slot for the women’s match going forward. He learned his lesson.
> 
> Rest of the show will just have a series of tunnels for the set to keep the hardcore happy.


there is no lasers bro, We didnt get what we wanted lol. Just screens. aew wants to be wwe.


----------



## shandcraig

aew deserves the ratings they got and deserves losing 200k. The product just sucks and this slight rebrand is worse than what they had before. Why would anyone wanna keep watching aew when it feels exactly like wwe but a shittier version. wwe is not putting out a good product, brand or presentation. AEW has a chance to be whoever the fuck they want but instead choose to be generic. I almost wrote myself off this place after this weeks show, Its just not exciting. Other than delusional aew marks, people are not caring anymore about people like Bryan. He was nothing more than a gimmick during wwes worse of days. 

wake up, So much wasted poetinal. Its ceary clear there is going to be a insane amount of wrestlers coming and going by the end of 2023.


----------



## shandcraig

Mister Sinister said:


> When your quarter is losing and the next quarter is down, it demonstrates a slide during that quarter though we don't get to see minute to minute ratings.
> 
> Danielson's rating might have jumped up to a million and then fell dramatically below 800k as the audience tuned out.
> 
> It's not about Danielson or Elite, it's about the booking. They lost over 200k viewers from the start of the show.



Who says they tuned in because of Him? thats crazy to assume. They tuned in because of mjf, But it sucked and so they tuned out. If anything its not mjf fault.


----------



## Saintpat

shandcraig said:


> aew deserves the ratings they got and deserves losing 200k. The product just sucks and this slight rebrand is worse than what they had before. Why would anyone wanna keep watching aew when it feels exactly like wwe but a shittier version. wwe is not putting out a good product, brand or presentation. AEW has a chance to be whoever the fuck they want but instead choose to be generic. I almost wrote myself off this place after this weeks show, Its just not exciting. Other than delusional aew marks, people are not caring anymore about people like Bryan. He was nothing more than a gimmick during wwes worse of days.
> 
> wake up, So much wasted poetinal. Its ceary clear there is going to be a insane amount of wrestlers coming and going by the end of 2023.


What AEW is suffering from most (and has from the start IMO) is a lack of identity or vision of what identity it wants — as you say, it could have chosen to be anything but it never made a choice. It’s always been like a Chinese menu: something from column A, something from B, maybe an appetizer over here, etc.

Whether you loved (original, not WWE-rebrand) ECW or hated it, you damned sure knew what it was — a hardcore show with dangerous stunts and weapons and outrageous (but to some degree very real) characters and storylines. You knew what you were getting thematically. 

Lucha Underground, which had a very narrow audience (on a very small platform) had a clear vision of what it was and how it wanted to present itself.

AEW liked to describe itself as a buffet at one time, or at least fans did. But that was just cover for ‘we want to be everything and nothing all at once’ — you had a Codyverse and a space for spot monkeys; on one had you hand ‘we want to be very sports-like with rankings and records’ and on the other you had song-and-dance with Jericho/MJF and (bad) comedy segments; plus ‘let’s bring in Japanese guys and indie darlings that much of the audience has never heard of and not bother to really explain who they are or why they’re here or why anyone should care’ … it’s been all over the place from the very start. 

And nothing to tie it all together. If you tried to describe it to your friends, you’d be at a loss because there was no identity to describe. Like one of those ‘modern art paintings’ where the artist got drunk and flung paint at the canvas like monkeys (spot monkeys?) throwing feces. 

In short, there are some talented performers (some of whom get over and disappear as soon as they do, some of whom are hardly ever seen to begin with) but nothing that brings it all together.


----------



## shandcraig

Saintpat said:


> What AEW is suffering from most (and has from the start IMO) is a lack of identity or vision of what identity it wants — as you say, it could have chosen to be anything but it never made a choice. It’s always been like a Chinese menu: something from column A, something from B, maybe an appetizer over here, etc.
> 
> Whether you loved (original, not WWE-rebrand) ECW or hated it, you damned sure knew what it was — a hardcore show with dangerous stunts and weapons and outrageous (but to some degree very real) characters and storylines. You knew what you were getting thematically.
> 
> Lucha Underground, which had a very narrow audience (on a very small platform) had a clear vision of what it was and how it wanted to present itself.
> 
> AEW liked to describe itself as a buffet at one time, or at least fans did. But that was just cover for ‘we want to be everything and nothing all at once’ — you had a Codyverse and a space for spot monkeys; on one had you hand ‘we want to be very sports-like with rankings and records’ and on the other you had song-and-dance with Jericho/MJF and (bad) comedy segments; plus ‘let’s bring in Japanese guys and indie darlings that much of the audience has never heard of and not bother to really explain who they are or why they’re here or why anyone should care’ … it’s been all over the place from the very start.
> 
> And nothing to tie it all together. If you tried to describe it to your friends, you’d be at a loss because there was no identity to describe. Like one of those ‘modern art paintings’ where the artist got drunk and flung paint at the canvas like monkeys (spot monkeys?) throwing feces.
> 
> In short, there are some talented performers (some of whom get over and disappear as soon as they do, some of whom are hardly ever seen to begin with) but nothing that brings it all together.


Yeah, That was my rant the first 2 years lol. Whats funny is even cody said AEW does not have a identity. The problem is you have an owner obsessed with being in control but his brain is zero creative. He has no thought process of even considering this. Hes a booksmart guy and obsessed with numbers. Its insanely strange to have this type of brain and think you yourself can make a good product that is based about being creative. Like the ceo of a production company thinking they are suddenly a director and will make an epic batman movie. 

If you describe it to your friends we would just say what Tony describes it as, " MATCHES MATCHES MATCHES"

But with this soft rebrand they feel even less like a identity. It feels closer to wwe which wwe is zero idenity and just strickly a NAME brand. Like why the fuck are these people hes hiring wanting to do the exact same shit they did for another company. They should be using their brains to create something. 

This is the exact reason why Eric beat wwf, He took everything wwf was doing and did the opposite. He did several new things the business never had before and are still done to this day by wwe. Its not just Tony though, This is a entire flawed issues amon every single American wrestling promotion right now. All of them are putting on generic branded products. Almost all of them feel identical to each other.

But yeah all nice points and im agreeing. Lucha underground had a great direction. Shame that if a promotion is not on a good enough network and often just being in a studio, That it simply cant grow or appeal.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*MJF definitely posts here:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611859222878109696*


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## LifeInCattleClass

5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ said:


> *MJF definitely posts here:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611859222878109696*


its time to come clean @RapShepard


or maybe @bdon ? 

with the cody, jericho and danielson hate


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## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its time to come clean @RapShepard
> 
> 
> or maybe @bdon ?
> 
> with the cody, jericho and danielson hate


Maybe it is too early, but this one flew right over my head…


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## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Maybe it is too early, but this one flew right over my head…


he says MJF posts here

MJF hates cody, jericho, danielson and Punk + thinks TK is a mark

brother Bdon… agrees

bdon = mjf!


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## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> he says MJF posts here
> 
> MJF hates cody, jericho, danielson and Punk + thinks TK is a mark
> 
> brother Bdon… agrees
> 
> bdon = mjf!


Shhhh… lol


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## Aedubya

Anyone got the average attendance/rating for the years 2019-2023?

They were slowly increasing to 2022


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## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612551196727992321


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewers: 551,000
18-49: 0.15

#30 on cable

*Last two months*

12/30: 470,000 / 0.12
12/23: 566,000 / 0.18
12/16: 464,000 / 0.15
12/9: 457,000 / 0.11
12/2: 361,000 / 0.08
11/25: 411,000 / 0.11
11/18: 445,000 / 0.14
11/11: 456,000 / 0.11


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## 3venflow

*AEW Battle of the Belts V*

Viewers: 409,000
18-49: 0.11

#58 on cable
*
Previous editions*

10/10/22: 317,000 / 0.10
8/6/22: 437,000 / 0.12
4/16/22: 527,000 / 0.18
1/8/22: 704,000 / 0.27


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## LifeInCattleClass

Shiny

Darby and OC - can never go wrong

throw DMD and Hayter out there and you’re set


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## Not Lying

Darby’s still a draw despite a year of irrelevant booking and zero character development


----------



## Geeee

I have a feeling Rampage is about to become The Darby Allin Show and I don't have a problem with that


----------

