# How The Mainstream Views AEW (Jericho hilariously roasted)



## .christopher.

This shit was obviously going to happen, too. If any casual saw AEW they'd be immediately turned off, and if AEW's outlaw fuckfest doesn't drive them away, that fat bastard Jericho will.

Only AEW fans are blind to this. Well, them, and apparently their stupid management, too.


----------



## midgetlover69

Yup lmao

They look like absolute clowns to anyone not in the wrestling bubble. Made a thread about this. This shit is embarrassing they arent ready to be seen by a mainstream audience


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## Dr. Middy

This just seems like everybody saw Jericho out of shape and is making fun of him if anything. He honestly should be in better shape than he is, dude feels and looks lazy even if he is still entertaining.


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## midgetlover69

Imagine if marko stunt showed up LOL


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## Oracle

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> This just seems like everybody saw Jericho out of shape and is making fun of him if anything. He honestly should be in better shape than he is, dude feels and looks lazy even if he is still entertaining.


Hes not even entertaining anymore hes become comedy relief and its not even funny the shit he does. 

Dude should just retire.


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## PhenomenalOne11

If this is how non wrestling fans, and casuals perceive Jericho and AEW.....they've got no fucking hope of growing their audience in the long run.


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## La Parka

The sad thing is, Jerichos look is hardly his biggest flaw.

Terrible in ring work and is an unfunny comedy character that really only makes himself laugh.


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## Chan Hung

If you think this is laughable, just think what they would have said if they witnessed the Fiend being burned to a crisp.


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## Dr. Middy

Oracle said:


> Hes not even entertaining anymore hes become comedy relief and its not even funny the shit he does.
> 
> Dude should just retire.


Yeah at this point I wouldn't be opposed to him hanging it up if he's just going to continue being lazy and looking like he does. Or at least become more of a manager or take a commentator role instead.


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## The Raw Smackdown

I'm sorry but who the fuck are even any of those people? Are they even legit mainstream?


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## midgetlover69

Chan Hung said:


> If you think this is laughable, just think what they would have said if they witnessed the Fiend being burned to a crisp.


LOL the other day I saw a video with alexa bliss. Cringed so hard I couldnt make it past a minute


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## .christopher.

Chan Hung said:


> If you think this is laughable, just think what they would have said if they witnessed the Fiend being burned to a crisp.


There is a difference, imo.

WWE is WWE. You know you're going to get childish, unwatchable shit.

With AEW, they're new. They have a chance to show casuals a fresh new alternative when they get a chance like tonight but, because of their own stupidity and incompetence, they come off as another WWE and kill their own chances of growing their audience.


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## Ozell Gray

Well it's true. AEW is WWE lite and littered with old guys from WWE, WCW, and Impact. Any casual seeing this company would burst out laughing uncontrollably.


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## Thomazbr

The WWE Knockoff is understandable tbh. For the vast majority the WWE they used to watch as a child and grew out of is as synonym to Pro-Wrestling as UFC is to MMA. In the same level people ask "when is UFC going to be on the olympic games" when talking about the entire sport of MMA people say "do you still watch WWE" even though you're watching like Great Power Uti defending his nigerian title against Gallows.

You have to take those shots and carry on. Jericho should work on his shape tho.


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## Prince Devitt

lol at the mideon referance


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## One Shed

No one has fallen further than Jericho since 2/29. Rather sad actually. Wow.


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## Mr316

Two Sheds said:


> No one has fallen further than Jericho since 2/29. Rather sad actually. Wow.


Unfortunately, Tony Khan doesn’t have the balls to tell him to get his shit together.


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## CtrlAltDel

Market research is a valuable tool. What segment of the TV audience are you trying to capture? Mainstream audience or a niche audience. You won’t be able to capture 100% of an audience. But you want to grow it by finding out what they like or dislike. I think cable is a dying form and steaming should be the goal to increase revenue and gaining an audience.


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## Chip Chipperson

midgetlover69 said:


> Imagine if marko stunt showed up LOL


Some stuck around that long.





















The Raw Smackdown said:


> I'm sorry but who the fuck are even any of those people? Are they even legit mainstream?


NBA fans. Fair few used to be wrestling fans it seems


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## One Shed

Mr316 said:


> Unfortunately, Tony Khan doesn’t have the balls to tell him to get his shit together.


Apparently not.


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## The Raw Smackdown

Chip Chipperson said:


> NBA fans. Fair few used to be wrestling fans it seems


So...not mainstream lol.


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## Chip Chipperson

The Raw Smackdown said:


> So...not mainstream lol.


If you don't class the NBA as mainstream what is it?

These are fans of a mainstream sport. Deal with it.


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## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I'm sorry but who the fuck are even any of those people? Are they even legit mainstream?


These are normal people in the world outside of the wrestling bubble.

The thing is, this will probably boost their ratings and make them think they are doing good. It’s context and knowing the impression you are giving that is important.

Watching wrestling with true casual or lapsed fans is fun. I think WWE fans are at least wary of how WWE is embarrassing television to the outside world. AEW fanboys think this shit is cool.

I know a girl who used to LOVE Chris Jericho. Like, she had a hall pass to fuck him. She can’t even watch him now.

TK had his chance and it’s probably gone. He needs to reel it in anyway. And we need a true alternative.

Put solid wrestling on TBS on a Tuesday and I guarantee it does better than AEW. This shit is underperforming in its own universe.

P.S. Say goodbye to that Shaq program (if it already wasn’t binned).


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## RainmakerV2

Someone will try to spin this as positive lol.


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## Ozell Gray

The NBA is as mainstream as it gets on TNT and they're showing you how they feel about AEW. Thats why signing so many WWE rejects was a bad idea and on top of that they signed a bunch old guys from WCW and Impact. These are the type of responses you're going to get. Chris Jericho? Oh I remember him from WWE. Christopher Daniels? I remember him from TNA. Arn Anderson? I remember him from WCW. AEW isn't mainstream like some think it is.


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## One Shed

Apparently this was their free chance to have people tune in after an NBA game and they presented a beached whale and a small child. What different universes people are living in. Wow. WCW at least managed to actually take over the Tonight show. These geeks get laughed at on Twitter by other goofs.


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## Mr316

The Wood said:


> These are normal people in the world outside of the wrestling bubble.
> 
> The thing is, this will probably boost their ratings and make them think they are doing good. It’s context and knowing the impression you are giving that is important.
> 
> Watching wrestling with true casual or lapsed fans is fun. I think WWE fans are at least wary of how WWE is embarrassing television to the outside world. AEW fanboys think this shit is cool.
> 
> I know a girl who used to LOVE Chris Jericho. Like, she had a hall pass to fuck him. She can’t even watch him now.
> 
> TK had his chance and it’s probably gone. He needs to reel it in anyway. And we need a true alternative.
> 
> Put solid wrestling on TBS on a Tuesday and I guarantee it does better than AEW. This shit is underperforming in its own universe.
> 
> P.S. Say goodbye to that Shaq program (if it already wasn’t binned).


What makes the entire thing so funny is that it should of been so easy to offer a great alternative but it did not happen because it was important for Cody/Bucks/Omega to hire their untalented friends and totally ruin the potential of the show making it a total joke.


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## K4L318

The Wood said:


> These are normal people in the world outside of the wrestling bubble.
> 
> The thing is, this will probably boost their ratings and make them think they are doing good. It’s context and knowing the impression you are giving that is important.
> 
> Watching wrestling with true casual or lapsed fans is fun. I think WWE fans are at least wary of how WWE is embarrassing television to the outside world. AEW fanboys think this shit is cool.
> 
> I know a girl who used to LOVE Chris Jericho. Like, she had a hall pass to fuck him. She can’t even watch him now.
> 
> TK had his chance and it’s probably gone. He needs to reel it in anyway. And we need a true alternative.
> 
> Put solid wrestling on TBS on a Tuesday and I guarantee it does better than AEW. This shit is underperforming in its own universe.
> 
> P.S. Say goodbye to that Shaq program (if it already wasn’t binned).


ya dramatic as hell bruh. Chill. 😂


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## The Raw Smackdown

Chip Chipperson said:


> If you don't class the NBA as mainstream what is it?
> 
> These are fans of a mainstream sport. Deal with it.


Right. They're FANS. They THEMSELVES are not mainstream.


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## The Raw Smackdown

Ozell Gray said:


> The NBA is as mainstream as it gets on TNT and they're showing you how they feel about AEW. Thats why signing so many WWE rejects was a bad idea and on top of that they signed a bunch old guys from WCW and Impact. These are the type of responses you're going to get. Chris Jericho? Oh I remember him from WWE. Christopher Daniels? I remember him from TNA. Arn Anderson? I remember him from WCW. *AEW isn't mainstream like some think it is.*


....Who the fuck thinks AEW is mainstream?


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## Chip Chipperson

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Right. They're FANS. They THEMSELVES are not mainstream.


Oh my lord.

Bro, take the L, new people sampling the Dub didn't like it. Don't get stuck on "They aren't mainstream!" to deflect.


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## The Raw Smackdown

Chip Chipperson said:


> Oh my lord.
> 
> Bro, take the L, new people sampling the Dub didn't like it. Don't get stuck on "They aren't mainstream!" to deflect.


I'm not deflecting shit. I just don't see how I(or anyone else really) am supposed to care about the opinion of some random ass nobodies.


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## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> Oh my lord.
> 
> Bro, take the L, new people sampling the Dub didn't like it. Don't get stuck on "They aren't mainstream!" to deflect.


wait ya goin by tweets now?


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## The Wood

RainmakerV2 said:


> Someone will try to spin this as positive lol.


“He’s a heel.”

“Any attention is good attention.”

“They’re not real fans anyway. You dont



K4L318 said:


> ya dramatic as hell bruh. Chill. 😂


Don’t project. I’m having Christmas cocktails by my pool. I just find this fucking hilarious. 



The Raw Smackdown said:


> Right. They're FANS. They THEMSELVES are not mainstream.


DoT, is that you? They are normal people. This is what normal people think.

On another note: What are the chances this gets back to TNT? When people talk “NBA Twitter,” is that something that the NBA keeps tabs on? I don’t really follow the NBA or social media that much (it would need to be a job). This is the sort of stuff that could have always potentially rocked them.

TNT wasn’t necessarily watching the program while offering them extensions and crossovers and the like. Seeing this sort of social media backlash is potentially eye-opening. “What the fuck actually goes on there? Hole...ly...shit. Get Tony Khan on the phone.”

They don’t care about content until they do.

But I do have to ask, for integrity’s sake (not that I doubt you, Chip): how much was positive? Were there people going “Fuck yeah, this is awesome!” as well, or was it mainly negative?

If this is a story, you can’t expect Dave Meltzer to break it.


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## midgetlover69

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Right. They're FANS. They THEMSELVES are not mainstream.


youre way too far gone


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## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> ....Who the fuck thinks AEW is mainstream?


Lots of people think it is destined to keep growing and become the #1 wrestling oromotiin



The Raw Smackdown said:


> I'm not deflecting shit. I just don't see how I(or anyone else really) is supposed to care about the opinion of some random ass nobodies.


This is what potential new fans think of your product. 



K4L318 said:


> wait ya goin by tweets now?


For an indicator of what people on social media think, why wouldn’t you?


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## K4L318

The Wood said:


> Don’t project. I’m having Christmas cocktails by my pool. I just find this fucking hilarious.


bro ya instigating hard. I find it funny doh. 

Like AEW could do one thing right and you would talk bout bad lighting. I respect it. But opinion on Jericho's appearance aint the sell to a product's hype or viewership 😂


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## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> “He’s a heel.”
> 
> “Any attention is good attention.”
> 
> “They’re not real fans anyway. You dont
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t project. I’m having Christmas cocktails by my pool. I just find this fucking hilarious.
> 
> 
> 
> DoT, is that you? They are normal people. This is what normal people think.
> 
> On another note: What are the chances this gets back to TNT? When people talk “NBA Twitter,” is that something that the NBA keeps tabs on? I don’t really follow the NBA or social media that much (it would need to be a job). This is the sort of stuff that could have always potentially rocked them.
> 
> TNT wasn’t necessarily watching the program while offering them extensions and crossovers and the like. Seeing this sort of social media backlash is potentially eye-opening. “What the fuck actually goes on there? Hole...ly...shit. Get Tony Khan on the phone.”
> 
> They don’t care about content until they do.
> 
> But I do have to ask, for integrity’s sake (not that I doubt you, Chip): how much was positive? Were there people going “Fuck yeah, this is awesome!” as well, or was it mainly negative?
> 
> If this is a story, you can’t expect Dave Meltzer to break it.


I saw almost all negative from the NBA fans. Only ones positive about Jericho were AEW fans.


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## K4L318

The Wood said:


> For an indicator of what people on social media think, why wouldn’t you?


cuz Twitter is known to be a toxic community on habit alone, just like boards are.


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## RainmakerV2

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Right. They're FANS. They THEMSELVES are not mainstream.



These are people checking out the product for the first time and theyre wondering why a 50 year old who has a gut an old cop would be jealous of is on there with a guy who looks like a child. Its not a good look and they're right.


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## qntntgood

midgetlover69 said:


> Yup lmao
> 
> They look like absolute clowns to anyone not in the wrestling bubble. Made a thread about this. This shit is embarrassing they arent ready to be seen by a mainstream audience


The people who should get a push,are not and the people who should not be on the roster are still there.


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## qntntgood

midgetlover69 said:


> Imagine if marko stunt showed up LOL


Those fans left by then,and those who were probably still watching changed the channel.


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## Chip Chipperson

RainmakerV2 said:


> These are people checking out the product for the first time and theyre wondering why a 50 year old who has a gut an old cop would be jealous of is on there with a guy who looks like a child. Its not a good look and they're right.


This.

It's a turn off


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## Chip Chipperson

qntntgood said:


> Those fans left by then,and those who were probably still watching changed the channel.


If you read previous pages one NBA fan referred to Marko as a budget Weird Al


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## The Wood

Chip Chipperson said:


> I saw almost all negative from the NBA fans. Only ones positive about Jericho were AEW fans.


Interesting. The potential fallout of these situations is more interesting than the fucking wrestling, which is a HUGE problem.

Wonder what happens if TK gets a memo not to put Jericho back on TV until he loses weight?


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## midgetlover69

K4L318 said:


> cuz Twitter is known to be a toxic community on habit alone, just like boards are.


youre in denial. These are normal people. Normal people use social media. This is what anyone who isnt a hardcore fan thinks when they turn on aew


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## PhenomenalOne11

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I'm not deflecting shit. I just don't see how I(or anyone else really) am supposed to care about the opinion of some random ass nobodies.


Because the casual audience is what AEW have to market to, they aren't going to bring in any new fans if they market it towards the same niche audience they have been for the past year. Smarks are a small market, and pandering to them will do nothing for ratings or viewership in the long run. Casual audiences are the biggest and most important market, if people are seeing it for the first time and don't like it, what does that say about AEW's casual appeal?


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## The Raw Smackdown

midgetlover69 said:


> youre in denial.* These are normal people. Normal people use social media*. This is what anyone who isnt a hardcore fan thinks when they turn on aew


First. What is Normal?

Second. How do you even know that?


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## RainmakerV2

Chip Chipperson said:


> This.
> 
> It's a turn off



Team Tazz should have been the first thing you put on. A freak like Cage and a miniature Rock in Starks. If not them then Archer and the Lucha Bros maybe. Cool characters and dudes who look like men. But no, Jericho has to beat Top Flight for, some reason?


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## La Parka

The Wood said:


> Wonder what happens if TK gets a memo not to put Jericho back on TV until he loses weight?


TK will never do this. 

As much shit as WWE gets, they make sure the legends look as much like the legends that the fansremember. 

When Kevin Nash returned as an active wrestler for a handful of matches, they made sure he looked 100x better than his run in TNA.
















AEW is a lot like TNA, they don't seem to care about how a performer looks. They only want the guys name on the card.


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## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> First. What is Normal?
> 
> Second. How do you even know that?


You really are in denial.


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## Chip Chipperson

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Because the casual audience is what AEW have to market to, they aren't going to bring in any new fans if they market it towards the same niche audience they have been for the past year. Smarks are a small market, and pandering to them will do nothing for ratings or viewership in the long run. Casual audiences are the biggest and most important market, if people are seeing it for the first time and don't like it, what does that say about AEW's casual appeal?


NBA is probably the best lead in they could get. They should've gone all out tonight to hook them.


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## DJ Punk

The people saying, "Lol Chris Jericho still wrestles?" are the same people saying "I don't know any of these new wrestlers today. I miss it when we had stars like Chris Jericho".


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## midgetlover69

The Raw Smackdown said:


> First. What is Normal?
> 
> Second. How do you even know that?


man what? How do I know people use social media? What?

Come on lol


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## PhenomenalOne11

Chip Chipperson said:


> NBA is probably the best lead in they could get. They should've gone all out tonight to hook them.


Exactly, you have this major platform that TNT have given you, to try and hook NBA fans after the Bucks vs Celtics game, which would have done big numbers considering they're 2 of the top teams in the East, and they blow it by bringing an out of shape, pathetic excuse of what was Chris Jericho, and Marko Stunt who my 2 year old nephew could beat the shit out of.


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## K4L318

midgetlover69 said:


> youre in denial. These are normal people. Normal people use social media. This is what anyone who isnt a hardcore fan thinks when they turn on aew


nah, dats what non wrestling fan who is in their 40s say.


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## midgetlover69

DJ Punk said:


> The people saying, "Lol Chris Jericho still wrestles?" are the same people saying "I don't know any of these new wrestlers today. I miss it when we had stars like Chris Jericho".


Well yea meaning they want new wrestlers who are as charismatic as jericho... not 50 yea old looks like he can barely get off his couch jericho


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## Thomazbr

Chip Chipperson said:


> If you read previous pages one NBA fan referred to Marko as a budget Weird Al


I mean to be fair being compared to Weird Al isn't the worst thing in the world.
He is pretty dope.


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## The Wood

La Parka said:


> TK will never do this.
> 
> As much shit as WWE gets, they make sure the legends look as much like the legends that the fansremember.
> 
> When Kevin Nash returned as an active wrestler for a handful of matches, they made sure he looked 100x better than his run in TNA.
> View attachment 95134
> View attachment 95135
> 
> 
> AEW is a lot like TNA, they don't seem to care about how a performer looks. They only want the guys name on the card.


I agree on the surface of your point, buT the difference between being continued and being dropped when there’s another week of 1 million tuning in dropping to 700k might make a few executives frustrated. Ultimately, TK is going to have to do what they want. It’s just they haven’t given a shit to date because AEW’s content obviously kept them satisfied enough not to peel back the curtain and see the wizard.

What happens when the talent that run the ship get an order? That’ll be interesting.


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## The Raw Smackdown

midgetlover69 said:


> man what? How do I know people use social media? What?
> 
> Come on lol


I mean how do you know these people are "Normal" as you put it.


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## The Wood

Thomazbr said:


> I mean to be fair being compared to Weird Al isn't the worst thing in the world.
> He is pretty dope.


Rainmaker called it, haha. 



The Raw Smackdown said:


> I mean how do you know these people are "Normal" as you put it.


They are crossing over from the National Basketball fucking Association.


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## TheGreatBanana

AEW and Mainstream they don’t even belong in the same sentence. AEW is incapable of being mainstream. Their whole presentation sucks.

How embarrassing is it that a exhibition fight between Tyson and Jones had better production and staging than AEW. They made AEW look crap in comparison and AEWs meant to have more money. This is why AEW will always be seen as a indy fed with national TV. To compete with WWE you need to look as mainstream as WWE.


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## midgetlover69

K4L318 said:


> nah, dats what non wrestling fan who is in their 40s say.


bro im 25 I dont know a damn person who thinks this is cool


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## The Raw Smackdown

The Wood said:


> You really are in denial.


Denial of what? That people don't like AEW? Big Fucking whoop. I don't give a fuck. Let them think what they want.
I Just feel alot of BS in this thread and it's not from the tweets..it's from the OP and the people that agree with him.


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## The Raw Smackdown

The Wood said:


> Rainmaker called it, haha.
> 
> 
> 
> They are crossing over from the National Basketball fucking Association.


But that doesn't mean they're "Normal" though...


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## Thomazbr

Aight okay, if this is part of the ridiculous internet feud between loyalists and haters or whatever the loyalists have to take the L here and accept that it was probably not a good look for potential new viewers and move on.

This shit is retarded. All this dancing around all year from both sides is some disengenuous shit. All this console ear shitposting brings the absolute worst on boards.


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## K4L318

midgetlover69 said:


> bro im 25 I dont know a damn person who thinks this is cool


ya 25 and dont any other 25s dat watch wrestling. And dont know what draws or doesnt. Ya a 2000 baby bro.


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## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Denial of what? That people don't like AEW? Big Fucking whoop. I don't give a fuck. Let them think what they want.
> I Just feel alot of BS in this thread and it's not from the tweets..it's from the OP and the people that agree with him.


No, the bullshit is you asking if people who use social media or watch the NBA are normal and going into apologetics mode. AEW had a chance to make new fans and it shit the bed.

Are you going to say “big whoop” if this shit loses its slot?


----------



## Thomazbr

The Wood said:


> Rainmaker called it, haha.
> 
> 
> 
> They are crossing over from the National Basketball fucking Association.


I mean Weird Al is pretty dope.
Hard to deny that 

It's a pretty weird comparison anyway. You'd think they would attack the height but went instead for the hair.
Anyway it's a good excuse as any to listen to some Weird Al.


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## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> But that doesn't mean they're "Normal" though...


It’s people watching the NBA and tweeting about it that then left the TV long enough to see Chris Jericho. That sounds pretty normal to me.

I asked Chip if the reaction was split. I trust him, and he said that it was almost unanimously negative from people. That is the impression AEW gives normal people (as normal as you are going to get to a TNT executive).


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## midgetlover69

K4L318 said:


> ya 25 and dont any other 25s dat watch wrestling. And dont know what draws or doesnt. Ya a 2000 baby bro.


cant even tell what point youre making


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## K4L318

The Wood said:


> No, the bullshit is you asking if people who use social media or watch the NBA are normal and going into apologetics mode. AEW had a chance to make new fans and it shit the bed.
> 
> Are you going to say “big whoop” if this shit loses its slot?


Ruthless Aggression Era stan is gonna tell peeps how to run wrestling. 😂


----------



## K4L318

midgetlover69 said:


> cant even tell what point youre making


ya dont know what ya talkin bout and pretend to cuz ya read da death of WCW or watch a WWE Network show.


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## The Wood

K4L318 said:


> Ruthless Aggression Era stan is gonna tell peeps how to run wrestling. 😂


I’m not a fan of the “Ruthless Aggression Era” at all. I don’t even think it should be named as such, because it didn’t really have a star that helped define it.

The brand split was a failure and Triple H on top was tedious. Try again.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> I’m not a fan of the “Ruthless Aggression Era” at all. I don’t even think it should be named as such, because it didn’t really have a star that helped define it.
> 
> The brand split was a failure and Triple H on top was tedious. Try again.


bruh ya Hogan was Cena. Dont lie.


----------



## The Wood

K4L318 said:


> bruh ya Hogan was Cena. Dont lie.


Hated Cena because I was a misguided smark. WWE’s presentation of him was jarring and he had to grow into the role, granted, but wrestling fans are a stupid bunch. I can admit that about myself.

But no. Man, what I wouldn’t kill for John Cena right now though.


----------



## midgetlover69

K4L318 said:


> ya dont know what ya talkin bout and pretend to cuz ya read da death of WCW or watch a WWE Network show.


I dont need any of that to tell you wrestling is corny. Nobody watches this shit


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## midgetlover69

K4L318 said:


> bruh ya Hogan was Cena. Dont lie.


lol get this we got internet we can watch old shit too. Dont worry about us!


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## K4L318

midgetlover69 said:


> I dont need any of that to tell you wrestling is corny. Nobody watches this shit


so what make ya qualified to guess wit Twitter? 😂


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## K4L318

midgetlover69 said:


> lol get this we got internet we can watch old shit too. Dont worry about us!


I aint.


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## K4L318

The Wood said:


> Hated Cena because I was a misguided smark. WWE’s presentation of him was jarring and he had to grow into the role, granted, but wrestling fans are a stupid bunch. I can admit that about myself.
> 
> But no. Man, what I wouldn’t kill for John Cena right now though.


I dont buy it. What got ya, at 10 into wrestling? there was only 3 peeps and Rocky wasnt poppin around then


----------



## Chip Chipperson

K4L318 said:


> I dont buy it. What got ya, at 10 into wrestling? there was only 3 peeps and Rocky wasnt poppin around then


Rocky was poppin


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## The Wood

K4L318 said:


> I dont buy it. What got ya, at 10 into wrestling? there was only 3 peeps and Rocky wasnt poppin around then


The Rock was absolutely around when I started watching. So was Austin.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> The Rock was absolutely around when I started watching. So was Austin.


so Rocky made ya a wrestling fan?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The Wood said:


> No, the bullshit is you asking if people who use social media or watch the NBA are normal and going into apologetics mode. AEW had a chance to make new fans and it shit the bed.
> 
> Are you going to say “big whoop” if this shit loses its slot?


No it's not bullshit. You don't know these people. They can be exactly what the wresting fans is now and if that's the case then how much are their opinion are you really gonna take to heart here? And who the fuck is being apologetic? Don't just throw shit out there because you don't like the fact that I'm questioning this.

And yes. I will say Big Whoop. Know why? Because I think AEW can survive that and even if it doesn't. There's still a world of wrestling and entertainment in general for me to sink my teeth into. Shit happens. Shows move nights. Oh well.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> The Rock was absolutely around when I started watching. So was Austin.


Austin's neck was done. He was special guest host. Try again.


----------



## DJ Punk

midgetlover69 said:


> Well yea meaning they want new wrestlers who are as charismatic as jericho... not 50 yea old looks like he can barely get off his couch jericho


Nah, I've talked to people who don't watch wrestling anymore. They don't even care to give the new stuff a chance and just live in the past. Which is 100% ok mind you.

I just find it funny how some people think wrestling has a chance to be appealing to mainstream audiences at this day and age. Attention spans are smaller than ever, there's countless other forms of entertainment, and wrestling is generally looked at as fake fighting ******* soap operas. Nothing any promotion does at this point could appeal to the mainstream audience anymore. That ship has sailed.

Hell, the Attitude Era wouldn't even be as popular today and that's a fact.


----------



## Thomazbr

Man lemme it tell you guys it's real easy to not give a shit about wrestling perspective on the mainstream when you don't pay for your wrestling and you don't live in a wrestling country and your favorite wrestling promotion is already dead


----------



## K4L318

DJ Punk said:


> Nah, I've talked to people who don't watch wrestling anymore. They don't even care to give the new stuff a chance and just live in the past. Which is 100% ok mind you.
> 
> I just find it funny how some people think wrestling has a chance to be appealing to mainstream audiences at this day and age. Attention spans are smaller than ever, there's countless other forms of entertainment, and wrestling is generally looked at as fake fighting ******* soap operas. Nothing any promotion does at this point could appeal to the mainstream audience anymore. That ship has sailed.
> 
> Hell, the Attitude Era wouldn't even be as popular today and that's a fact.


ya from the Attitude Era. I can tell. Props for da facts.


----------



## The Wood

K4L318 said:


> so Rocky made ya a wrestling fan?


Not really, actually. Well, maybe in part.



The Raw Smackdown said:


> No it's not bullshit. You don't know these people. They can be exactly what the wresting fans is now and if that's the case then how much are their opinion are you really gonna take to heart here? And who the fuck is being apologetic? Don't just throw shit out there because you don't like the fact that I'm questioning this.
> 
> And yes. I will say Big Whoop. Know why? Because I think AEW can survive that and even if it doesn't. There's still a world of wrestling and entertainment in general for me to sink my teeth into. Shit happens. Shows move nights. Oh well.


Loyal fan here. Shit happens. Oh well. Move on.



K4L318 said:


> Austin's neck was done. He was special guest host. Try again.


Um, no, he was wrestling lol. What kind of weird cold reading gimmick is this? You’re not very good at it. Maybe just engage in discussion and with what people are actually saying?



DJ Punk said:


> Nah, I've talked to people who don't watch wrestling anymore. They don't even care to give the new stuff a chance and just live in the past. Which is 100% ok mind you.
> 
> I just find it funny how some people think wrestling has a chance to be appealing to mainstream audiences at this day and age. Attention spans are smaller than ever, there's countless other forms of entertainment, and wrestling is generally looked at as fake fighting ******* soap operas. Nothing any promotion does at this point could appeal to the mainstream audience anymore. That ship has sailed.
> 
> Hell, the Attitude Era wouldn't even be as popular today and that's a fact.


Another fan throwing in the towel.


----------



## Hitman1987

$7 billion can buy you a lot of ammo but it can’t buy you casuals


----------



## The Wood

Thomazbr said:


> Man lemme it tell you guys it's real easy to not give a shit about wrestling perspective on the mainstream when you don't pay for your wrestling and you don't live in a wrestling country and your favorite wrestling promotion is already dead


I don’t agree with many of your thoughts here, but gotta say that really sucks man. It’s a perspective a lot of people don’t really consider because they’re in their own bubble.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The Wood said:


> It’s people watching the NBA and tweeting about it that then left the TV long enough to see Chris Jericho. That sounds pretty normal to me.
> 
> *I asked Chip if the reaction was split. I trust him, and he said that it was almost unanimously negative from people. That is the impression AEW gives normal people (as normal as you are going to get to a TNT executive).*


I think you're saying that they're normal because they agree with you and your friends. That's what I think. Would they still have been "Normal" if they liked it? 

And Once again. I don't care if those nobodies don't like it. I just think that y'all are using those tweets to justify yet another "Let's shit on AEW!" thread and it's funny honestly. 

Like it's said over and over again on this forum that social media in general is a big ceesspool of shit on this forum but yet these rando's opinions on Twitter is some sort of indication that AEW is fucking up somehow? I'm not buying this crap. I'm really not.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

DJ Punk said:


> Nah, I've talked to people who don't watch wrestling anymore. They don't even care to give the new stuff a chance and just live in the past. Which is 100% ok mind you.
> 
> I just find it funny how some people think wrestling has a chance to be appealing to mainstream audiences at this day and age. Attention spans are smaller than ever, there's countless other forms of entertainment, and wrestling is generally looked at as fake fighting ******* soap operas. Nothing any promotion does at this point could appeal to the mainstream audience anymore. That ship has sailed.
> 
> Hell, the Attitude Era wouldn't even be as popular today and that's a fact.


Finally someone with some sense.


----------



## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I think you're saying that they're normal because they agree with you and your friends. That's what I think. Would they still have been "Normal" if they liked it?
> 
> And Once again. I don't care if those nobodies don't like it. I just think that y'all are using those tweets to justify yet another "Let's shit on AEW!" thread and it's funny honestly.
> 
> Like it's said over and over again on this forum that social media in general is a big ceesspool of shit on this forum but yet these rando's opinions on Twitter is some sort of indication that AEW is fucking up somehow? I'm not buying this crap. I'm really not.


Social media presence is a big part of you measure a company’s success in today’s day and age. I don’t like engaging with it personally, but to dismiss it because _you_ don’t like the results? Soz.


----------



## midgetlover69

DJ Punk said:


> Nah, I've talked to people who don't watch wrestling anymore. They don't even care to give the new stuff a chance and just live in the past. Which is 100% ok mind you.
> 
> I just find it funny how some people think wrestling has a chance to be appealing to mainstream audiences at this day and age. Attention spans are smaller than ever, there's countless other forms of entertainment, and wrestling is generally looked at as fake fighting ******* soap operas. Nothing any promotion does at this point could appeal to the mainstream audience anymore. That ship has sailed.
> 
> Hell, the Attitude Era wouldn't even be as popular today and that's a fact.


How can you say none of that would work if no one has even tried? What have they done to appeal to the mainstream audience? You just throw marko stunt out there and say "yup told ya. Wrestling has no chance"


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> Not really, actually. Well, maybe in part.
> 
> 
> Um, no, he was wrestling lol. What kind of weird cold reading gimmick is this? You’re not very good at it. Maybe just engage in discussion and with what people are actually saying?


So Rock made ya a fan. It can only be 3 peeps dat made ya a fan. Ya wasnt even a WWF fan. 

nah. he wasnt. 2003 was his last year. Ya was like what 9 or 10 in 2000?


----------



## The Wood

midgetlover69 said:


> How can you say none of that would work if no one has even tried? What have they done to appeal to the mainstream audience? You just throw marko stunt out there and say "yup told ya. Wrestling has no chance"


That’s it. I swear: these people hate wrestling. It sounds so weird. But they don’t want anyone else to have nice things (despite what they say about people who just want the product to get better).


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The Wood said:


> Social media presence is a big part of you measure a company’s success in today’s day and age. I don’t like engaging with it personally, but to dismiss it because _you_ don’t like the results? Soz.


Oh no I'm not dismissing the results. I Just think that y'all are using the results to once again shit on AEW. That's what I think.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

midgetlover69 said:


> How can you say none of that would work if no one has even tried? What have they done to appeal to the mainstream audience? You just throw marko stunt out there and say "yup told ya. Wrestling has no chance"


Do we really need to try? Like do we really?


----------



## midgetlover69

The Wood said:


> That’s it. I swear: these people hate wrestling. It sounds so weird. But they don’t want anyone else to have nice things (despite what they say about people who just want the product to get better).


And what part of this resembles the attitude era? Bro I guess we're too young. Whatevers on the network aint it. They must be talking about ANOTHER attitude era


----------



## DJ Punk

The Wood said:


> Another fan throwing in the towel.


I just see it at is, man. In Elementary everyone was talking about wrestling and it became a taboo topic in High School. If you even mentioned wrestling in HS, you'd get the ol "You know that shit's fake, right?". Which is ironic because a lot of those same people would watch stupid fake shit like Jersey Shore. But ever since some people became 'clever' and found out wrestling was 'fake', it's hurt the business and alienated the mainstream audience. Someone at my work recently was mentioning how they tuned in randomly and saw a wrestler yelling at another to leave his wife alone and thought it was "the most stupid shit I've ever seen". I assume they were talking about the whole Samoa Joe/AJ styles angle which was generally praised by actual wrestling fans. 

But that's the point here. Wrestling doesn't need to be mainstream. Sure, it would help the business overall but trying to appeal to the mainstream audience has only alienated more actual wrestling fans. Like the 2009 guest host celebrity era. 

So yea, is Jericho out of shape? Kind of. Can he still go in the ring? Yep. Can he still work a mic? You're damn right. Is he still entertaining as hell? Definitely. Will him hitting the gym automatically attract a mainstream audience and make AEW's numbers skyrocket? Get your head out of your ass.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The Wood said:


> That’s it. I swear: these people hate wrestling. It sounds so weird. But they don’t want anyone else to have nice things (despite what they say about people who just want the product to get better).


Or maybe we're just being fucking realistic and not living in this little fantasy world where there's several wrestling fans out there twiddling their thumbs waiting for this "Good" Wrestling promotion to come along and shoot wrestling back into the mainstream?


----------



## Thomazbr

The Wood said:


> I don’t agree with many of your thoughts here, but gotta say that really sucks man. It’s a perspective a lot of people don’t really consider because they’re in their own bubble.


It's aight.
It's freeing in a way. I just watch what I enjoy and I don't really have to give a shit about what draws or don't because in the first place it's not like I'm the target audience so it's whatever.
I got into wrestling through highlight videos of Takuya Sugi so I was always destined to be more into the indie out of sight stuff. I watch AEW because it has some dudes whose work I enjoy and it's honestly an easy watch for the most part in my opinion. And when it isn't hey, I just alt tab and go do something else.


----------



## DJ Punk

midgetlover69 said:


> How can you say none of that would work if no one has even tried? What have they done to appeal to the mainstream audience? You just throw marko stunt out there and say "yup told ya. Wrestling has no chance"


Hard to take these posts seriously when you Anti-AEW marks cherry pick the product. I don't even remember the last time I saw Marko Stunt in the ring (I don't watch Dark often).


----------



## Christopher Near

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I'm not deflecting shit. I just don't see how I(or anyone else really) am supposed to care about the opinion of some random ass nobodies.



Couldn't that be said about this whole forum? All of us give our opinions in wrestling that reslly dont mean much


----------



## .christopher.

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Or maybe we're just being fucking realistic and not living in this little fantasy world where there's several wrestling fans out there twiddling their thumbs waiting for this "Good" Wrestling promotion to come along and shoot wrestling back into the mainstream?


But there are wrestling fans waiting for that, which is why ratings boost when something big happens.

Not too long ago SmackDown got 4 million viewers. Those 2+million that have since left after seeing how shit wrestling has become were all waiting for a good product.


----------



## DJ Punk

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Or maybe we're just being fucking realistic and not living in this little fantasy world where there's several wrestling fans out there twiddling their thumbs waiting for this "Good" Wrestling promotion to come along and shoot wrestling back into the mainstream?


Exactly. AEW is far from perfect, but it's pretty damn good. And this is coming from a guy who almost gave up wrestling entirely in 2017 due to how bad WWE got. I'm enjoying the ride now before it's over.


----------



## midgetlover69

DJ Punk said:


> Hard to take these posts seriously when you Anti-AEW marks cherry pick the product. I don't even remember the last time I saw Marko Stunt in the ring (I don't watch Dark often).


He had a match today so its not really cherry picking. I could say orange cassidy or joey janela instead if you want though


----------



## K4L318

Thomazbr said:


> It's aight.
> It's freeing in a way. I just watch what I enjoy and I don't really have to give a shit about what draws or don't because in the first place it's not like I'm the target audience so it's whatever.
> I got into wrestling through highlight videos of Takuya Sugi so I was always destined to be more into the indie out of sight stuff. I watch AEW because it has some dudes whose work I enjoy and it's honestly an easy watch for the most part in my opinion. And when it isn't hey, I just alt tab and go do something else.


every once in a blue ya find da real wrestling fans.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Raw Smackdown said:


> ....Who the fuck thinks AEW is mainstream?


Some think AEW can become mainstream someday and as we can see the mainstream looks at AEW as a joke.


----------



## Christopher Near

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I mean how do you know these people are "Normal" as you put it.



Its simple 
There are normal people
Then there's wrestling fans


----------



## K4L318

Ozell Gray said:


> Some think AEW can become mainstream someday and as we can see the mainstream looks at AEW as a joke.


wrestling aint gonna be mainstream wit dem 40 and up folks anymore. They quit. Their favs are either dead or retired.


----------



## DJ Punk

midgetlover69 said:


> He had a match today so its not really cherry picking. I could say orange cassidy or joey janela instead if you want though


I haven't watched the recent Dynamite yet. I don't mind him though. I just think it's dumb when he gets too much offense. I like Orange Cassidy and he sells merch plus gets crowd reactions, so your logic is kind of flawed there. Joey Janela on the other hand, is an obnoxious slob who begs for crowd reactions. So you'd have a better point there. Problem is, he doesn't appear on Dynamite much either.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

.christopher. said:


> But there are wrestling fans waiting for that, which is why ratings boost when something big happens.
> 
> Not too long ago SmackDown got 4 million viewers. Those 2+million that have since left after seeing how shit wrestling has become were all waiting for a good product.


Well y'all gonna be waiting forever tbh.


----------



## DJ Punk

Ozell Gray said:


> Some think AEW can become mainstream someday and as we can see the mainstream looks at *Wrestling* as a joke.


Fixed.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DJ Punk said:


> I haven't watched the recent Dynamite yet. I don't mind him though. I just think it's dumb when he gets too much offense. I like Orange Cassidy and he sells merch plus gets crowd reactions, so your logic is kind of flawed there. Joey Janela on the other hand, is an obnoxious slob who begs for crowd reactions. So you'd have a better point there. Problem is, he doesn't appear on Dynamite much either.


Joey main evented last week against the World Champion


----------



## K4L318

Christopher Near said:


> Its simple
> There are normal people
> Then there's wrestling fans


aint no normal peeps watching wrestling. 

norm peeps would say dats stupid. Norm peeps in 2020 watching news, streaming or on TikTok.

Wrestling fan today is a hardcore small base. 

look at ya right now. Ya have a Bayley icon, no one knows who she is. Norm peeps at a store dont. She dont got distinctive look or anything. So what are dem norm peeps?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

DJ Punk said:


> Fixed.


And there's nothing that can be done about that tbh. But people here just refuse to see it. 

Come back to reality please: We're all waiting for you here.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

K4L318 said:


> aint no normal peeps watching wrestling.
> 
> norm peeps would say dats stupid. Norm peeps in 2020 watching news, streaming or on TikTok.
> 
> Wrestling fan today is a hardcore small base.
> 
> look at ya right now. Ya have a Bayley icon, no one knows who she is. Norm peeps at a store dont. She dont got distinctive look or anything. So what are dem norm peeps?


Why do you write like this when your first posts here are normal?

No hate just asking.


----------



## DJ Punk

Chip Chipperson said:


> Joey main evented last week against the World Champion


Yea? And he got utterly destroyed while Kenny was working commentary too. He looked like a joke. Just as he should have looked. My point was that he barely shows up on Dynamite. Didn't say he never does. And when he does, he makes other stars look good.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> Why do you write like this when your first posts here are normal?
> 
> No hate just asking.


I got tired of it. And got kicked out. Took years off and stuff changed to when I didnt care anymore and just kept it real. Its just life man.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DJ Punk said:


> Yea? And he got utterly destroyed while Kenny was working commentary too. He looked like a joke. Just as he should have looked. My point was that he barely shows up on Dynamite. Didn't say he never does. And when he does, he makes other stars look good.


He put the World Champion through a table.


----------



## DJ Punk

Chip Chipperson said:


> He put the World Champion through a table.


I honestly forgot that even happened. All I remember is Joey getting slapped with cookie trays while Kenny was talking shit on the mic. This is more deviating towards a psychology-based argument now though, no? Table spots simply serve as a way to get the crowd to pop. It doesn't make one guy look more dominant than the other. If anything, it makes the guy who got put through the table look even better when he's the one who ends up winning the match imo.


----------



## midgetlover69

DJ Punk said:


> Yea? And he got utterly destroyed while Kenny was working commentary too. He looked like a joke. Just as he should have looked. My point was that he barely shows up on Dynamite. Didn't say he never does. And when he does, he makes other stars look good.


but thats not the point. You cant have a joey janela this week or a marko stunt the next and then say you gave it a fair shot at appealing to a wider mainstream audience


----------



## K4L318

I became a wrestling fan in dem early 90s. Bret and Sunny was what made me a wrestling fan. On WCW it was Sting n Vader n DDP n I wanted Mero's wife to motorboat me.I misspoke 

I wanted her to motorboat me 










Dat was mainstream wrestling.

2020 ya cant have it anymore.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

You can have mainstream wrestling. Just stop insulting the audience.

Tonight if they kicked off with a six man exciting tag team match with a star in it who knows where they end up with these NBA fans?


----------



## Ozell Gray

K4L318 said:


> wrestling aint gonna be mainstream wit dem 40 and up folks anymore. They quit. Their favs are either dead or retired.


I was talking about AEW not any other company.




DJ Punk said:


> Fixed.


You didn’t “fix” anything because I meant what I said about AEW. AEW will never be mainstream at all. It’s a small promotion that just happen to be on tv.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Chip Chipperson said:


> You can have mainstream wrestling. Just stop insulting the audience.
> 
> Tonight if they kicked off with a six man exciting tag team match with a star in it who knows where they end up with these NBA fans?


They would've thought the same thing.


----------



## K4L318

Ozell Gray said:


> I was talking about AEW not any other company.


but its wrestling, and it just never can be dat.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Raw Smackdown said:


> They would've thought the same thing.


Nope. Disagree entirely.

Eli Drake, Jay Lethal and Michael Elgin Vs Alexander Hammerstone, Jacob Fatu and Pac keeps the fans there tonight.

Especially if CM Punk turns up before the opening match with a big gold belt.

They've bet on the wrong talent. Nobody in AEW is all that appealing to casuals or lapsed fans


----------



## DJ Punk

midgetlover69 said:


> but thats not the point. You cant have a joey janela this week or a marko stunt the next and then say you gave it a fair shot at appealing to a wider mainstream audience


Idk about you, but watching Marko Stunt and Joey Janela get destroyed by other wrestlers is entertaining to me. I can't speak for what mainstream people would want when they already think wrestling is stupid to begin with. 

But if I had to guess, I imagine a mainstream person would probably act like this:

"Wow Jericho's so fat. He still wrestles?"

"Is that guy wearing a dinosaur mask? How stupid!"

"Look at some of these guys. How have they not been busted for steroids yet?"

"Is this Jon Moxley guy supposed to be a ripoff Stone Cold?"

"God, I have no idea who any of these people are. Oh cool, Sting! I miss the old days..."

"I like how this MJF guy think he's so cool and then decides to put on undies and fake play fight with other men"


You see what I'm getting at here? Wrestling can't win a mainstream audience anymore and I'm sure AEW knows this already. It has a bad reputation amongst the general populace now. And the people who did watch back then and gave it up will have a hard time accepting anything new. Plain and simple.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nope. Disagree entirely.
> 
> Eli Drake, Jay Lethal and Michael Elgin Vs Alexander Hammerstone, Jacob Fatu and Pac keeps the fans there tonight.
> 
> Especially if CM Punk turns up before the opening match with a big gold belt.
> 
> They've bet on the wrong talent. Nobody in AEW is all that appealing to casuals or lapsed fans


Nah, they'd say midgets and boring. 

wasting CM Punk now wit no fans is not smart.

I agree here. No one from last 20 years would bring a number other than Sting and Jericho.


----------



## Ozell Gray

K4L318 said:


> but its wrestling, and it just never can be dat.


Doesn’t matter. We’re here talking about AEW which won’t ever be mainstream. WWE could be mainstream again because it has the name recognition that AEW can only dream of.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nope. Disagree entirely.
> 
> Eli Drake, Jay Lethal and Michael Elgin Vs Alexander Hammerstone, Jacob Fatu and Pac keeps the fans there tonight.
> 
> Especially if CM Punk turns up before the opening match with a big gold belt.
> 
> They've bet on the wrong talent. Nobody in AEW is all that appealing to casuals or lapsed fans


Guys like MJF, Darby Allin and Miro can. But AEW don't use these guys fucking right.


----------



## K4L318

Ozell Gray said:


> Doesn’t matter. We’re here talking about AEW which won’t ever be mainstream. WWE could be mainstream again because it has the name recognition that AEW can only dream of.


neither will. None of dem reaching teen kids.


----------



## DJ Punk

Ozell Gray said:


> WWE could be mainstream again.


You honestly believe that?


----------



## K4L318

DJ Punk said:


> You honestly believe that?


so he just not gonna answer dat?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nope. Disagree entirely.
> 
> Eli Drake, Jay Lethal and Michael Elgin Vs Alexander Hammerstone, Jacob Fatu and Pac keeps the fans there tonight.
> 
> Especially if CM Punk turns up before the opening match with a big gold belt.
> 
> They've bet on the wrong talent. Nobody in AEW is all that appealing to casuals or lapsed fans


No they wouldn't. They'd still look at it as a joke no matter what. That might get more wrestling fans on board but everyone else? Nope. They still wouldn't give a shit. Wrestling is not going to get any bigger than it is now.


----------



## Hitman1987

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nope. Disagree entirely.
> 
> Eli Drake, Jay Lethal and Michael Elgin Vs Alexander Hammerstone, Jacob Fatu and Pac keeps the fans there tonight.
> 
> Especially if CM Punk turns up before the opening match with a big gold belt.
> 
> They've bet on the wrong talent. Nobody in AEW is all that appealing to casuals or lapsed fans


I agree, if this show had opened with an in-shape Jericho and Hager vs MJF and Wardlow I think people would’ve stuck around. There’s an ex-WWE guy they know, a legit MMA fighter, a guy who looks like a beast and I would’ve had MJF cut a promo pre match to show them that he’s all about the promos and make them want to see him get beat up.

They have the resources to grow the audience, they just don’t know what they are doing. Whoever thought it was a good idea to put on 3 filler shows after your 2 biggest storylines of the year (Sting/Omega win) is an idiot.

People can say that wrestling will never be mainstream again because it’s fake but it’s a cop out. In recent years I’ve seen a show based around incest and dragons become a worldwide hit, why? Because it has good stories, good characters, sex appeal and action/violence and that’s what people like. Always have done, always will do.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Raw Smackdown said:


> No they wouldn't. They'd still look at it as a joke no matter what. That might get more wrestling fans on board but everyone else? Nope. They still wouldn't give a shit. Wrestling is not going to get any bigger than it is now.


They said that in 95 as well


----------



## DJ Punk

Hitman1987 said:


> I agree, if this show had opened with an in-shape Jericho and Hager vs MJF and Wardlow I think people would’ve stuck around


Yikes. We're reaching delusional levels that shouldn't be possible.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> They said that in 95 as well


bro it aint 95, think what ya watched in 95 to now.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Chip Chipperson said:


> They said that in 95 as well


That was then. This is now.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DJ Punk said:


> Yikes. We're reaching delusional levels that shouldn't be possible.


The mockery was literally because Jericho is fat and old. Ripped and throwing out lionsaults what would they mock?


----------



## DJ Punk

Chip Chipperson said:


> The mockery was literally because Jericho is fat and old. Ripped and throwing out lionsaults what would they mock?


Idk. You tell me:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1341944039650848768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1341946806389907456


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Chip Chipperson said:


> The mockery was literally because Jericho is fat and old. Ripped and throwing out lionsaults what would they mock?


The fact that it's fake?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DJ Punk said:


> Idk. You tell me:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1341944039650848768
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1341946806389907456


Soooo like I've been saying for six months now stop hiring every ex WWE guy that becomes available. There's no reason Swagger should be signed.



The Raw Smackdown said:


> The fact that it's fake?


Watch out your comments bro. Fake is disrespectful to all of us


----------



## Hitman1987

DJ Punk said:


> Yikes. We're reaching delusional levels that shouldn't be possible.


You do realise that these people who are criticising on social media actually gave the show a chance by watching it. If they hated wrestling they would’ve just tuned out before it started but they stuck around and then decided it was a rip off WWE.

The show opened with an inner circle match against an unknown green tag team so i used the best people available from those 2 teams to make a tag team match. If I’d had my choice of the whole roster and match type I would’ve put something like Hangman vs Wardlow/Cage and let them tear it up for 15 minutes.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

With new audience you want a recognisable star who is young and well known.

That leaves two people. Cody and Mox. I'd have had Cody go over in 6 minutes on someone

Sorry @bdon


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Chip Chipperson said:


> With new audience you want a recognisable star who is young and well known.
> 
> That leaves two people. Cody and Mox. I'd have had Cody go over in 6 minutes on someone
> 
> Sorry @bdon


IDK about well known but you got the Young Part right.


----------



## Hitman1987

Chip Chipperson said:


> With new audience you want a recognisable star who is young and well known.
> 
> That leaves two people. Cody and Mox. I'd have had Cody go over in 6 minutes on someone
> 
> Sorry @bdon


I can agree with that. I’m no fan of Cody either but I can accept that he is more well known than most on the roster and looks like a wrestler.


----------



## validreasoning

DJ Punk said:


> You honestly believe that?


I hate the word "mainstream" but WWE are far more in public eye than AEW. People look at tv ratings but in reality gap is much bigger https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=/m/0gy1_,/g/11fj7hstmt

3 of the biggest action movie stars are WWE guys. 3rd biggest drawing UFC guy in history is wwe guy and 2nd biggest joined wwe. Wall Street loves WWE in recent years. ESPN has WWE on their station, Fallon, Kimmel have WWE talent on. Lots of current WWE talent have been in movies and TV shows, you see WWE talent in ads, in reality TV programming.

The IWC would have us believe WWE is ultra niche in the US but that's far from the truth. Roller Derby and rugby union is niche in the US as far as tv exposure is concerned.


----------



## DJ Punk

Hitman1987 said:


> If I’d had my choice of the whole roster and match type I would’ve put something like Hangman vs Wardlow/Cage and let them tear it up for 15 minutes.


Hangman vs Wardlow would get criticism from the wrestling community that, "AEW can't give us new matches. This match just happened not that long ago". And Hangman vs Cage would get, "This shouldn't be given away on free TV. Talk about random too! No buildup or anything..."


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

validreasoning said:


> I hate the word "mainstream" but WWE are far more in public eye than AEW. People look at tv ratings but in reality gap is much bigger https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=/m/0gy1_,/g/11fj7hstmt
> 
> 3 of the biggest action movie stars are WWE guys. 3rd biggest drawing UFC guy in history is wwe guy and 2nd biggest joined wwe. Wall Street loves WWE in recent years. ESPN has WWE on their station, Fallon, Kimmel have WWE talent on. Lots of current WWE talent have been in movies and TV shows, you see WWE talent in ads, in reality TV programming.
> 
> The IWC would have us believe WWE is ultra niche in the US but that's far from the truth. Roller Derby and rugby union is niche in the US as far as tv exposure is concerned.


I mean WWE is Niche. Not a single thing you listed makes them legit visible. 

When the E is on the scene like The Marvel Cinematic Universe then we can talk.


----------



## Hitman1987

DJ Punk said:


> Hangman vs Wardlow would get criticism from the wrestling community that, "AEW can't give us new matches. This match just happened not that long ago". And Hangman vs Cage would get, "This shouldn't be given away on free TV. Talk about random too! No buildup or anything..."


Nobody would complain about a rematch between Hangman and Wardlow, especially if Wardlow got the win and it was leading to a rubber match with a possible gimmick (iron man, 2 out of 3 falls) on the forthcoming special shows. Feuds build stars.

They had an opportunity to bring in new eyes and you only get one chance to make a first impression so you have to roll out the big guns. Doesn’t have to be a PPV level World title match but it has to be credible workers who look the part and can back it up in the ring.

The wrestling community would understand.


----------



## DJ Punk

Hitman1987 said:


> The wrestling community would understand.


HA.


----------



## La Parka

I’ll never understand why certain fans think wrestling should stay niche and do nothing to bring in the causal fan. WWE and AEW are the main two wrestling companies in North America and both are terrible TV. What’s wrong with trying to actually put on a decent wrestling show and seeing what casuals think of it? Because this SNL parody of wrestling isn’t exactly lighting the world on fire

What business dosen’t try to attract new customers? I’ve never heard of a successful business say “fuck everyone, let’s just cater to 800 thousand people!”

Are the 800k people going to leave if a wrestling match doesn’t have 300 dives? I doubt it.


----------



## Hitman1987

La Parka said:


> I’ll never understand why certain fans think wrestling should stay niche and do nothing to bring in the causal fan. WWE and AEW are the main two wrestling companies in North America and both are terrible TV. What’s wrong with trying to actually put on a decent wrestling show and seeing what casuals think of it? Because this SNL parody of wrestling isn’t exactly lighting the world on fire
> 
> What business dosen’t try to attract new customers? I’ve never heard of a successful business say “fuck everyone, let’s just cater to 800 thousand people!”
> 
> Are the 800k people going to leave if a wrestling match doesn’t have 300 dives? I doubt it.


Exactly, what start up business doesn’t put their best foot forward at every opportunity and capitalise on the momentum it has gained from their big investments (e.g. Sting)


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

La Parka said:


> I’ll never understand why certain fans think wrestling should stay niche and do nothing to bring in the causal fan. WWE and AEW are the main two wrestling companies in North America and both are terrible TV. What’s wrong with trying to actually put on a decent wrestling show and seeing what casuals think of it? Because this SNL parody of wrestling isn’t exactly lighting the world on fire
> 
> What business dosen’t try to attract new customers? I’ve never heard of a successful business say “fuck everyone, let’s just cater to 800 thousand people!”
> 
> Are the 800k people going to leave if a wrestling match doesn’t have 300 dives? I doubt it.


Because bringing in a casual audience means that the hardcore fans may not get their workrate darlings pushed in favour of stars with the look and charisma.


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

.....who gives a shit, these don't even look like the type of people worth listening to. Wrestling will NEVER EVER be mainstream again, not with all the different entertainment options we have today. You morons seethe over comedy and goofyness yet super serious Cornette approved characters like Timothy Thatcher on the other show sink the ratings like nothing in comparison. Wrestling is a niche. It will forever remain a niche. There's absolutely nothing you can do to make it mainstream again. Deal with it or find a new hobby.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Majmo_Mendez said:


> .....who gives a shit, these don't even look like the type of people worth listening to. Wrestling will NEVER EVER be mainstream again, not with all the different entertainment options we have today. You morons seethe over comedy and goofyness yet super serious Cornette approved characters like Timothy Thatcher on the other show sink the ratings like nothing in comparison. Wrestling is a niche. It will forever remain a niche. There's absolutely nothing you can do to make it mainstream again. Deal with it or find a new hobby.


While you're probably right about it forever being a niche, there's no harm in trying to appeal to a casual fanbase or at least try and improve with the times.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Wrestling hasn't been mainstream for decades so no change there. It's not like those folks enjoy a different wrestling product is it.

I also don't see what's remarkable when it's clearly the done thing to shit on everything on social media in 2020, get with the programme guys lol.

I enjoyed the show, doesn't bother me what some randoms thought of it.


----------



## the_flock

Chip Chipperson said:


> With new audience you want a recognisable star who is young and well known.
> 
> That leaves two people. Cody and Mox. I'd have had Cody go over in 6 minutes on someone
> 
> Sorry @bdon


Then the comments would be haha Stardust has a god awful neck tattoo now and thinks he's a star. Or Dean Ambrose is still getting fucked over.


----------



## the_flock

Chip Chipperson said:


> You can have mainstream wrestling. Just stop insulting the audience.
> 
> Tonight if they kicked off with a six man exciting tag team match with a star in it who knows where they end up with these NBA fans?


They would have been better off rolling out Joel Gertner and have him rip on basketball fans for 10 mins before getting laid out by Cage, that would keep them interested. Not a boring 6 man tag. Or have the likes of Allie come out in low cut tops, whilst the cameras zoom in on their chest and JR makes an obnoxious, but funny comment. That is what people would rather see.


----------



## Ozell Gray

K4L318 said:


> neither will. None of dem reaching teen kids.



WWE can but whether or not they will is another story.




DJ Punk said:


> You honestly believe that?


The fact speaks for itself. WWE has the name recognition to make it happen.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

the_flock said:


> Then the comments would be haha Stardust has a god awful neck tattoo now and thinks he's a star. Or Dean Ambrose is still getting fucked over.


And that's assuming they'd know who either of them were.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Ozell Gray said:


> WWE can but whether or not they will is another story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact speaks for itself. WWE has the name recognition to make it happen.


No and No.


----------



## THE_OD

Jericho has had an amazing career and is still entertaining to this day. But it's true that he seems like a dinosaur from a forgotten age now, much like Hogan did in the 2000's.

If people tune in and see that guy they saw wrestle 20 years ago, it really can give the wrong impression.
Jericho has been super important to AEW's start, and bringing credibility, but it's kinda scary how fast he went downhill from his time wrestling Omega in Japan, he's crossed the magical barrier where the body just doesnt want to play along anymore.

I say its time to phase him out.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

La Parka said:


> I’ll never understand why certain fans think wrestling should stay niche and do nothing to bring in the causal fan. WWE and AEW are the main two wrestling companies in North America and both are terrible TV. What’s wrong with trying to actually put on a decent wrestling show and seeing what casuals think of it? Because this SNL parody of wrestling isn’t exactly lighting the world on fire
> 
> What business dosen’t try to attract new customers? I’ve never heard of a successful business say “fuck everyone, let’s just cater to 800 thousand people!”
> 
> Are the 800k people going to leave if a wrestling match doesn’t have 300 dives? I doubt it.


Well noone is saying not to try tho.


----------



## K4L318

Ozell Gray said:


> WWE can but whether or not they will is another story.


nah they cant. There arent any more Tyson 98 figures in wrestling dat drove viewership numbers sky high wit a once in a lifetime talent like Austin.


----------



## patpat

As much as I criticize aew myself posts like this tell me not to take people like you seriously. Taking few twitter posts and making a thread calling 20 people on twitter "the mainstream" is ridiculous. 
Used to think you actually were a rational person making well constructed criticism, guess I was wrong. Its just blindly shitting on everything they do using the most fallacious and _not so bright_ arguments 
Actually disappointed


----------



## patpat

Two Sheds said:


> No one has fallen further than Jericho since 2/29. Rather sad actually. Wow.


Thats an interesting conversation actually. Instead of talking about literal nobodies on twitter, THIS here is the real story. Hoe jericho in one year went from being the best thing in aew to a joke.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

patpat said:


> As much as I criticize aew myself posts like this tell me not to take people like you seriously. Taking few twitter posts and making a thread calling 20 people on twitter "the mainstream" is ridiculous.
> Used to think you actually were a rational person making well constructed criticism, guess I was wrong. Its just blindly shitting on everything they do using the most fallacious and _not so bright_ arguments
> Actually disappointed


I only took the first few I saw that were amusing. Jericho was trending because of how bad he appeared


----------



## JerryMark

jericho ain't even that old he can fucking do better...

hogana nd flair were older in the last in ring runs in WWE. flair was like 56 when he was in evolution.


----------



## JerryMark

imagine if they opened with a hot darby allin/ricky starks match instead with a mainstream lead in.

promoting 101 tony...


----------



## DJ Punk

JerryMark said:


> jericho ain't even that old he can fucking do better...
> 
> hogana nd flair were older in the last in ring runs in WWE. flair was like 56 when he was in evolution.


Are you implying that Hogan and Flair could wrestle better than current Jericho? Or are you implying that Flair and Hogan weren't also out of shape at 50+? Because either way, you're wrong.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

JerryMark said:


> imagine if they opened with a hot darby allin/ricky starks match instead with a mainstream lead in.
> 
> promoting 101 tony...


Nobody really would've cared though, you need big stars who aren't embarrassing to look at or watch.

CM Punk turns up, JR announces that in tonight's main event we're going to see Dalton Castle Vs Jon Moxley, Sting is going to arrive at some point for a chat, CM Punk is going to call out MJF for shit talking him and taking him out two weeks ago, Darby is going to wrestle Ricky Starks in the midcard tonight, Sammy Guevara is going to team with Jericho to take on Hangman and Eli Drake

All that stuff leads to people going "Ooooh, I'll stay here" and sticking around. It might look a bit WWE knock offish to have Punk but at least he's early forties as opposed to Jericho who is 50 and out of shape.


----------



## DJ Punk

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nobody really would've cared though, you need big stars who aren't embarrassing to look at or watch.
> 
> CM Punk turns up, JR announces that in tonight's main event we're going to see Dalton Castle Vs Jon Moxley, Sting is going to arrive at some point for a chat, CM Punk is going to call out MJF for shit talking him and taking him out two weeks ago, Darby is going to wrestle Ricky Starks in the midcard tonight, Sammy Guevara is going to team with Jericho to take on Hangman and Eli Drake
> 
> All that stuff leads to people going "Ooooh, I'll stay here" and sticking around. It might look a bit WWE knock offish to have Punk but at least he's early forties as opposed to Jericho who is 50 and out of shape.


I would mark so hard if Punk showed up but that's just never going to happen unless Tony really does decide to throw a ludicrous amount of money at him. And I have a feeling that ludicrous amount is much more than Jericho and Sting are being paid right now. Plus, Punk's just not into wrestling anymore. So would we even get the passion-driven CM Punk we got back in 2011-2013 or would he just half ass it and go through the motions? That's not the Punk I want back.


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

On one hand I agree that you want to keep your Evil Unos and Marko Stunts off a show like this but on the other hand I very much doubt that any of those people would stick around no matter what was on the card. Not even going to question why would anyone care about Twatter mob at this point.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DJ Punk said:


> Are you implying that Hogan and Flair could wrestle better than current Jericho? Or are you implying that Flair and Hogan weren't also out of shape at 50+? Because either way, you're wrong.












Hogan at 50.


----------



## Garty

Chip Chipperson said:


> I only took the first few I saw that were amusing. Jericho was trending because of how bad he appeared


Can you also inform everyone here what the other 339,999,980 out of the 340,000,000 Twitter users were talking about at that exact moment as well? Yeah, probably not, huh? An entire group of 20 people (out of a possible cumulative 2-3 million) watching the NBA game in the USA (where 95% of the combined worldwide audience was watching live), with a 10+ minute recap and player interviews of said game just played, with the full broadcast going over 6-7 minutes past the 10PM "scheduled start-time", meaning that AEW started at approximately 10:07 PM. Pretty good math, huh?! 

So, 20 people hanging around, some not even actually watching the show, is really "How The Mainstream Views AEW (Jericho hilariously roasted)"?! Yeah, sure!  Maybe Life could hire you as a statistical analyst or summfinn?!


----------



## DJ Punk

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hogan at 50.


Not too long after:


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

nba is hardly mainstream they are a niche product failing faster than wrestling
the nba ratings are in the toilet they struggle to get nxt numbers for primetime games
nba twitter is far from mainstream they are literally the vocal minority same as wrestling twitter


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DJ Punk said:


> Not too long after:
> 
> View attachment 95148


That was when Hogan was 56 years old, I was at the Sydney leg of this tour.

50 and 56 are pretty different.


----------



## CM Buck

Why did this need to be a thread here @Chip Chipperson ? Are you wanting a discussion or for aew fans to be pissed off? Cause 316 calling fans marks isn't sending the right message especially when his mocking people for being fans of the express?

Is it to complain that wrestling which by its nature is not meant to be mainstream isn't mainstream what exactly is the purpose of this thread?

How is it any different from 316s constant hate threads?


----------



## RamPaige

Well, that's not a surprise. When was the last time wrestling was actually popular? Most stopped watching after the Attitude Era was over and never looked back. Of course, they're going to have low opinions on the current product. It's not like people think highly of the WWE, which is what most non-wrestling fans base their opinion of wrestling on. 

The Rock's return was the last time wrestling almost felt like how it was in the late 90s/early 00s. Everyone was talking about it, from my timeline, friends, strangers in the street, my damn mom. Contrast to when Ronda debuted in the WWE and the world just mocked her for being too pussy to fight in the UFC anymore.


----------



## Garty

Firefromthegods said:


> Why did this need to be a thread here @Chip Chipperson ? Are you wanting a discussion or for aew fans to be pissed off? Cause 316 calling fans marks isn't sending the right message especially when his mocking people for being fans of the express?
> 
> Is it to complain that wrestling which by its nature is not meant to be mainstream isn't mainstream what exactly is the purpose of this thread?
> 
> How is it any different from 316s constant hate threads?


Well, look at that will 'ya?  Sir... you are a God after all.


----------



## CM Buck

Garty is All Elite said:


> Well, look at that will 'ya?  Sir... you are a God after all.


Like I said. If its being critical for a purpose im not going to stop it. But if its the same stuff adnauseum or its clogging up the page I'll do something.

I don't mind complaining as long as its constructive. I'm struggling to find why its a big deal wrestling is mocked by mainstream media.

Wrestling has always been mocked by the mainstream. Keeping up with the kardashians is more acceptable than wrestling around the water cooler. Always will be the case too.

Its not like some knuckle dragging sports fans loving aew will suddenly make it get 10 million viewers. Delivering high quality TV is what gets viewers. The last 3 shows won't. Shit like early July and the first few shows from debut will.

Aews problem isn't not being mainstream. It's not being consistent and making a million viewers the baseline


----------



## Mr316

TheGreatBanana said:


> AEW and Mainstream they don’t even belong in the same sentence. AEW is incapable of being mainstream. Their whole presentation sucks.
> 
> How embarrassing is it that a exhibition fight between Tyson and Jones had better production and staging than AEW. They made AEW look crap in comparison and AEWs meant to have more money. This is why AEW will always be seen as a indy fed with national TV. To compete with WWE you need to look as mainstream as WWE.
> 
> View attachment 95136
> View attachment 95137


The production for this event was out of this world. Amazing. Instead, AEW gave 1 million per year to a commentator who’s definitely not as good as he used to be and they put some wrestlers with absolutely zero creativity in charge of the show.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Mr316 said:


> The production for this event was out of this world. Amazing. Instead, AEW gave 1 million per year to a commentator who’s definitely not as good as he used to be and they put some wrestlers with absolutely zero creativity in charge of the show.


Thing is that Jim Ross is still better now than most of the commentators today. AEW have a great duo in Ross and Schiavone yet they have to ruin it with Excalibur. Just a two man booth with those two is fine.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chip Chipperson said:


> Due to the NBA game today AEW got a fair amount of crossover fans. They kicked the show off with Chris Jericho and it has hilariously backfired.
> 
> I've shared some posts below but also wanted to point out that much of what they're saying is how myself and others have said AEW is likely perceived by the fans who no longer watch.
> 
> Let us begin:
> 
> View attachment 95124
> 
> 
> This guy views AEW as a rip off of the WWE on his first impression.
> 
> View attachment 95125
> 
> 
> This woman seems to think she's actually watching WWE.
> 
> View attachment 95126
> 
> 
> "Is this supposed to be WWE?" Fucking oof
> 
> View attachment 95127
> 
> 
> Not good
> 
> View attachment 95128
> 
> 
> I don't think he means crazy in a good way...
> 
> View attachment 95129
> 
> 
> 
> "Horribly scripted"
> 
> View attachment 95130
> 
> 
> Will he tune back?
> 
> ---
> 
> This is the mainstream my friends. They are unforgiving and vicious but this is valuable insight for AEW
> 
> Stay away from the older guys from WWE, stick with guys who are in shape and marketable. Also get a proper creative team
> 
> Thanks guys, looking forward to your views
> 
> Lyle "Chip" Chipperson


*That's completely Jericho's fault for being disgustingly out of shape. If he took care of himself like Billy Gunn, I'm pretty sure the reception would have been different and they would have been willing to give him a chance. First impression is everything. *


----------



## midgetlover69

DJ Punk said:


> Idk about you, but watching Marko Stunt and Joey Janela get destroyed by other wrestlers is entertaining to me. I can't speak for what mainstream people would want when they already think wrestling is stupid to begin with.
> 
> But if I had to guess, I imagine a mainstream person would probably act like this:
> 
> "Wow Jericho's so fat. He still wrestles?"
> 
> "Is that guy wearing a dinosaur mask? How stupid!"
> 
> "Look at some of these guys. How have they not been busted for steroids yet?"
> 
> "Is this Jon Moxley guy supposed to be a ripoff Stone Cold?"
> 
> "God, I have no idea who any of these people are. Oh cool, Sting! I miss the old days..."
> 
> "I like how this MJF guy think he's so cool and then decides to put on undies and fake play fight with other men"
> 
> 
> You see what I'm getting at here? Wrestling can't win a mainstream audience anymore and I'm sure AEW knows this already. It has a bad reputation amongst the general populace now. And the people who did watch back then and gave it up will have a hard time accepting anything new. Plain and simple.


Theres no logic in not even trying tough. I get what youre saying but thats the real world outside of the niche bubble. People arent going to coddle you so you have to put your best effort forward.

Im not going to act like there wont be those that say shit no matter what, but how can you know for certain there wont be others that end up enjoying it? Thats absolutely crazy. You havent even tried but youre going to write them off and phone it in already? Thats your business model? Clearly many of these people HAVE watched wrestling before. They were a fan at one point so why cant they be now?

How does it hurt you at all for attempting to put on a better product? Legit stars, a serious roster from top to bottom, logical writing, good production. How much can people really joke about that? You dont think you would grow the audience even a little bit? Even if it doesnt, as a fan why wouldnt you want that for yourself? This is a nothing to lose but everything to gain situation


----------



## El Hammerstone

After coming off watching real athletes who have become bigger and stronger over the years across all sports, modern day wrestling is going to look laughable.


----------



## shadow_spinner

Some online are saying “they’re just WWE marks”. No they aren’t. Most of them are people who used to watch years ago and don't anymore. These same would clown WWE as well.

Here is the thing with casual fans. Casual Wwe fans who stopped watching won’t go search up another wrestling alternative. They’ll just stop watching. Same as casual NBA fans, those who stop caring about NBA’s product won’t go searching a European league to watch.


----------



## midgetlover69

Firefromthegods said:


> Like I said. If its being critical for a purpose im not going to stop it. But if its the same stuff adnauseum or its clogging up the page I'll do something.
> 
> I don't mind complaining as long as its constructive. I'm struggling to find why its a big deal wrestling is mocked by mainstream media.
> 
> Wrestling has always been mocked by the mainstream. Keeping up with the kardashians is more acceptable than wrestling around the water cooler. Always will be the case too.
> 
> Its not like some knuckle dragging sports fans loving aew will suddenly make it get 10 million viewers. Delivering high quality TV is what gets viewers. The last 3 shows won't. Shit like early July and the first few shows from debut will.
> 
> Aews problem isn't not being mainstream. It's not being consistent and making a million viewers the baseline


LOL youre a wrestling fan calling other people dumb? The jokes write themselves


----------



## Christopher Near

K4L318 said:


> aint no normal peeps watching wrestling.
> 
> norm peeps would say dats stupid. Norm peeps in 2020 watching news, streaming or on TikTok.
> 
> Wrestling fan today is a hardcore small base.
> 
> look at ya right now. Ya have a Bayley icon, no one knows who she is. Norm peeps at a store dont. She dont got distinctive look or anything. So what are dem norm peeps?


Exactly the only active wrestler who is close to mainstream is roman


----------



## shadow_spinner

DJ Punk said:


> The people saying, "Lol Chris Jericho still wrestles?" are the same people saying "I don't know any of these new wrestlers today. I miss it when we had stars like Chris Jericho".


Older NBA fans would say they want guys like Shaq back in the league. No one is clamoring for Shaq himself to keep playing. There is a difference.


----------



## thorn123

Jericho isn’t mainstream and neither is wrestling


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

shadow_spinner said:


> Some online are saying “they’re just WWE marks”. No they aren’t. Most of them are people who used to watch years ago and Sony anymore. These same would clown WWE as well.
> 
> Here is the thing with casual fans. Casual Wwe fans who stopped watching won’t go search up another wrestling alternative. They’ll just stop watching. Same as casual NBA fans, those who stop caring about NBA’s product won’t go searching a European league to watch.


Exactly, the first remark that they go for is that you're a bitter WWE mark, I've been called one myself, even though I've stopped watching WWE outside of Reigns segments.


----------



## CM Buck

Qudhufo said:


> I thought u were gonna delete my post, what happened? Lmao
> View attachment 95157


Meant to warn you. I don't want silly shit like that. You want to criticise aew that's fine. Baiting responses like that Sheldon gif add nothing and just incite.


----------



## yeahright2

I have no idea who these people who sent out a random bunch of tweets are, so their opinion doesn´t matter more than anyones. And that one guy who said "horribly scripted".. Shows how much he know, if it was then there wouldn´t be 20 minute spotfests all the time.
Chip found a series of mostly negative tweets, but I think you can find about just as many that are positive -such is the ways of wrestling.
A few years ago I talked with a buddy of mine who hadn´t watched wrestling in 25 years. His knowledge was mostly due to The Rock starting to make movies. We talked about if he even knew anyone from the current roster (wwe). I told him Undertaker was still wrestling, and he was like" Oh, that´s cool". But he´s not tuning in again, and I´m guessing the people who wrote those tweets doesn´t intend to either.


I think it´s quite telling how the tweets have one thing in comon though -They all remember the old guys and doesn´t know one single one of the younger generation.. Where´s the "Wow, Young Bucks, Cody AND Kenny Omega on the same show?, Cool!" And it´s an indication about how AEW isn´t as mainstream as they think.
A few negative tweets isn´t market research, but apparently they´re using Nielsen Social to get statistics (Khan loves them), that´s probably a more precise indication of how the casual fans percieve AEW than a bunch of tweets selcected by one person.


----------



## CM Buck

midgetlover69 said:


> LOL youre a wrestling fan calling other people dumb? The jokes write themselves


No. I know wrestling is stupid. I don't need to defend my fandom. And I've seen enough sports fans social media posts to know those people aren't very bright. 

Twitter is a big exposure on dumb


----------



## Boldgerg

A few nobodies put out a couple of Tweets "roasting" (probably the weakest use of that word I've seen) Jericho...

Cool.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Chris Jericho Trends Heavily On Twitter Due To His Physique - Wrestling Inc.


----------



## midgetlover69

This is like bizarro world in here

"nobodies" thats the whole fucking point. These are average everyday regular people. Not famous, in the wrestling bubble whoevers. Its not just a few tweets. This is really how most people view the current wrestling product


----------



## bigwrestlingfan22

Firefromthegods said:


> Like I said. If its being critical for a purpose im not going to stop it. But if its the same stuff adnauseum or its clogging up the page I'll do something.
> 
> I don't mind complaining as long as its constructive. I'm struggling to find why its a big deal wrestling is mocked by mainstream media.
> 
> Wrestling has always been mocked by the mainstream. Keeping up with the kardashians is more acceptable than wrestling around the water cooler. Always will be the case too.
> 
> Its not like some knuckle dragging sports fans loving aew will suddenly make it get 10 million viewers. Delivering high quality TV is what gets viewers. The last 3 shows won't. Shit like early July and the first few shows from debut will.
> 
> Aews problem isn't not being mainstream. It's not being consistent and making a million viewers the baseline


You aren't TOTALLY wrong but mod or not COME ON. To act like it's not a problem that Jericho is still a top 3 trend in the world the morning after on Xmas eve is silly. He's being DESTROYED in America right now over his weight and how it looks like AEW is running washed up legends out there. Please understand in the American culture something like this becomes a "meme" and it's all she wrote.

I'm a huge AEW fan but I'm a realist too. Last night was a very very bad look for the company. Tony Khan needs to be a man and tell Jericho to lose weight. He's gained A LOT of weight since the pandemic started. Besides Sting, Jericho is AEW's most well known star in wrestling. Problem being is you have to feature him in spots like last night but with how he looks right now? Ouch.


----------



## bigwrestlingfan22

midgetlover69 said:


> This is like bizarro world in here
> 
> "nobodies" thats the whole fucking point. These are average everyday regular people. Not famous, in the wrestling bubble whoevers. Its not just a few tweets. This is really how most people view the current wrestling product


Correct, the battle lines seem draw on this message board. Some of the posters are going to bash AEW no matter what and some will defend them no matter what. The fact you have people on here saying this isn't a problem or it's "no big deal" is crazy. AEW got memed last night. Jericho and AEW are now a running joke with mainstream sports fans. He's STILL trending and it's Christmas Eve in America.


----------



## A PG Attitude

The biggest thing I took from this thread is that Chip went and found a bunch of tweets from some random nobodies to continue his agenda of shitting on AEW at every possible opportunity. You need to find a new hobby, one that makes you happy.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Not sure if it's the case for people outside of Canada, but typing either Jericho or Chris Jericho into the twitter searchbar right now results in 'Chris Jericho Fat' being the first option; that's not good any way you look at it.


----------



## Thomazbr

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nobody really would've cared though, you need big stars who aren't embarrassing to look at or watch.
> 
> CM Punk turns up, JR announces that in tonight's main event we're going to see Dalton Castle Vs Jon Moxley, Sting is going to arrive at some point for a chat, CM Punk is going to call out MJF for shit talking him and taking him out two weeks ago, Darby is going to wrestle Ricky Starks in the midcard tonight, Sammy Guevara is going to team with Jericho to take on Hangman and Eli Drake
> 
> All that stuff leads to people going "Ooooh, I'll stay here" and sticking around. It might look a bit WWE knock offish to have Punk but at least he's early forties as opposed to Jericho who is 50 and out of shape.


Dalton Castle is embarrassing tho


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

A PG Attitude said:


> The biggest thing I took from this thread is that Chip went and found a bunch of tweets from some random nobodies to continue his agenda of shitting on AEW at every possible opportunity. You need to find a new hobby, one that makes you happy.


Exactly. 

That's exactly why I thought this thread was crap from the get go.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Christopher Near said:


> Exactly the only active wrestler who is close to mainstream is roman


*Sasha Banks is literally in Star Wars.*



El Hammerstone said:


> Chris Jericho Trends Heavily On Twitter Due To His Physique - Wrestling Inc.


*I think it's funny how people here act like it's just 5 random people on Twitter, yet it made wrestling news sites because it was actually thousands.*


----------



## bigwrestlingfan22

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Exactly.
> 
> That's exactly why I thought this thread was crap from the get go.


A top 3 trend in America on Christmas Eve. Blaming Chip for this is utterly insane.


----------



## bigwrestlingfan22

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Sasha Banks is literally in Star Wars.*


Really? That's pretty cool which movie is Sasha in?


----------



## CM Buck

bigwrestlingfan22 said:


> You aren't TOTALLY wrong but mod or not COME ON. To act like it's not a problem that Jericho is still a top 3 trend in the world the morning after on Xmas eve is silly. He's being DESTROYED in America right now over his weight and how it looks like AEW is running washed up legends out there. Please understand in the American culture something like this becomes a "meme" and it's all she wrote.
> 
> I'm a huge AEW fan but I'm a realist too. Last night was a very very bad look for the company. Tony Khan needs to be a man and tell Jericho to lose weight. He's gained A LOT of weight since the pandemic started. Besides Sting, Jericho is AEW's most well known star in wrestling. Problem being is you have to feature him in spots like last night but with how he looks right now? Ouch.


Oh its a Jericho looks thread. I legitimately couldn't tell after 5 pages cause it all looked like a general aew hate thread with some of the posts. In my defense it's hard to differentiate sometimes 

Yes Jericho absolutely needs to sort himself out or atleast wear a shirt. But at the same time LA park has a gut and his one of mlws biggest draws.

But yes if Jericho is gonna be getting in major feuds again he needs to earn itand not coast on name.

But that can be said for the company as a whole they're very complacent too often

To also answer your question sasha is in the baby yoda show


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bigwrestlingfan22 said:


> Really? That's pretty cool which movie is Sasha in?


*Koska Reeves in The Mandalorian, which is the most popular broadcasted series right now.*


----------



## bigwrestlingfan22

Firefromthegods said:


> Oh its a Jericho looks thread. I legitimately couldn't tell after 5 pages cause it all looked like a general aew hate thread with some of the posts. In my defense it's hard to differentiate sometimes
> 
> Yes Jericho absolutely needs to sort himself out or atleast wear a shirt. But at the same time LA park has a gut and his one of mlws biggest draws.
> 
> But yes if Jericho is gonna be getting in major feuds again he needs to earn itand not coast on name.
> 
> But that can be said for the company as a whole they're very complacent too often


Agreed with all you said there. The whole LA Park thing though, who cares. MLW is super small and isn't ANYWHERE close to mainstream. MLW would kill to get the kind of chances AEW gets on TNT. Hopefully Tony or somebody close to Jericho gets with him and says you got to get in shape man. He still has a ton he can provide to AEW which he's proven this year but it's all out the window if he keeps packing on the LBs.


----------



## bigwrestlingfan22

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Koska Reeves in The Mandalorian, which is the most popular broadcasted series right now.*


I had no idea Sasha was in the Mandalorian. Big character? It's a show I've had on my list to check out for the better part of a year now but simply haven't.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bigwrestlingfan22 said:


> I had no idea Sasha was in the Mandalorian. Big character? It's a show I've had on my list to check out for the better part of a year now but simply haven't.


*Without spoiling anything, she has a prominent role in two episodes in season 2. Check it out ASAP.*


----------



## Dr. Middy

I mean there's acknowledging Jericho should lose weight and him trending and all like that is not good, but I think some people here are extremely overreacting to this. If anything, its going to hurt Jericho as a performer much more than it hurts AEW. Also, shit like this trends on twitter daily, so most likely it'll be forgotten about in a few days like the majority of stuff that trends (BTW it's not even in the top 30 trends in the country at this point).


----------



## CM Buck

bigwrestlingfan22 said:


> Agreed with all you said there. The whole LA Park thing though, who cares. MLW is super small and isn't ANYWHERE close to mainstream. MLW would kill to get the kind of chances AEW gets on TNT. Hopefully Tony or somebody close to Jericho gets with him and says you got to get in shape man. He still has a ton he can provide to AEW which he's proven this year but it's all out the window if he keeps packing on the LBs.


Well I care about mlw so ouch lol but yes you are right even if its hurtful lol. I don't think Tony will honestly. Like you said its been a months long ordeal with Jericho. If Tony had any courage he would but his too focused on cultivating a fun working environment.

You can't lead without being tough but fair. Its perfectly reasonable to demand things from your employees


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

A PG Attitude said:


> The biggest thing I took from this thread is that Chip went and found a bunch of tweets from some random nobodies to continue his agenda of shitting on AEW at every possible opportunity. You need to find a new hobby, one that makes you happy.


Them being nobodies is the entire point. They should be trying to appeal to said every day casual fans yet based on the response last night nobody is gonna care.


----------



## A PG Attitude

bigwrestlingfan22 said:


> I had no idea Sasha was in the Mandalorian. Big character? It's a show I've had on my list to check out for the better part of a year now but simply haven't.


You need to watch it immediately. The Mandalorian is the Star Wars fans have been crying out for for the last 30 years... imagine if Vince suddenly decided to give us everything we wanted all the time... that's The Mandalorian.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

A PG Attitude said:


> You need to watch it immediately. The Mandalorian is the Star Wars fans have been crying out for for the last 30 years... imagine if Vince suddenly decided to give us everything we wanted all the time... that's The Mandalorian.


Gonna be honest, tried watching it and couldn't get past two episodes. Found it way too boring. That's just me


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Gonna be honest, tried watching it and couldn't get past two episodes. Found it way too boring. That's just me


*Season 1 is very uneventful tbh. You can start with two after reading a summary of 1 and be fine.*


----------



## redban

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I'm sorry but who the fuck are even any of those people? Are they even legit mainstream?


One of the persons quoted in OP admits he hasn’t watched wrestling in 11 years. How is his criticism of AEW meaingful when the person doesn’t like wrestling? And another person thought she was watching WWE, so she doesn’t have sense


----------



## One Shed

DJ Punk said:


> Nah, I've talked to people who don't watch wrestling anymore. They don't even care to give the new stuff a chance and just live in the past. Which is 100% ok mind you.
> 
> I just find it funny how some people think wrestling has a chance to be appealing to mainstream audiences at this day and age. Attention spans are smaller than ever, there's countless other forms of entertainment, and wrestling is generally looked at as fake fighting ******* soap operas. Nothing any promotion does at this point could appeal to the mainstream audience anymore. That ship has sailed.
> 
> Hell, the Attitude Era wouldn't even be as popular today and that's a fact.


I am not sure there has been a post on here I disagree more than with than this one (I have seen a few similar ones before and called them all out).

Attention spans are NOT smaller than ever. Long form podcasts about complex topics have immensely more views than news shows with constant commercials and six minute segments that would appeal to people if they had short attention spans. Saying humans have shorter attention spans is one of the largest misunderstandings of our time. For me, the issue is clearly there is just so much more content and so much of it is mediocre to bad that few people want to watch it.

We saw the poll of why people no longer watch wrestling. We know why they no longer watch. And from what I am seeing, a lot of these people tuned in after the NBA game and laughed at what they saw and not in a good way.

"Nothing any promotion does at this point could appeal to the mainstream audience anymore. That ship has sailed."

I disagree with this line of thinking so much and it IS wrong. This is the line of thinking of someone in 1995 saying wrestling just will never be able to be as good as the golden era of the 80's. You can even make a similar case of someone in the early 80's saying nothing could ever make wrestling like it was in earlier eras too. What NONSENSE. I imagine people with this mindset living around the year 2000 saying things like "wow, why do they keep trying to make movies based on comic books? Those things are never going to appeal to normal people. Batman & Robin was horrible, they should just stop trying. NOTHING they do could appeal to a mainstream audience!"

Your mindset has been proven wrong time, after time, after time. Leave your defeatism at the door please. It is a built in excuse for mediocrity.

The Attitude Era would of course not be as popular today because it reflected society AT THE TIME, not today. That is the whole point. Same goes for every era of EVERYTHING, not just wrestling. You think something like M*A*S*H would be as popular today this far removed from the Korean War? Come on. And this is not just a rant directed at you, but everyone with this defeatist attitude because you are all so hilariously wrong.

Side note: I hope someone has posted this since deleted tweet from Jericho in here because it is so deliciously ironic:


----------



## VIP86

the show last night was insulting to the viewers intelligence
that's all i can say since i'm lost for words after watching this garbage

as for Chris Jericho
i don't blame Chris Jericho for still wanting to wrestle despite his Physique as much as i do blame him for wasting the creative freedom he was given on stupidity


----------



## yeahright2

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Sasha Banks is literally in Star Wars.*
> 
> Side note: I hope someone has posted this since deleted tweet from Jericho in here because it is so deliciously ironic:
> 
> View attachment 95158


Yeah, but it´s just Sasha without the blue hair. No one sees her and think "Sweet, I´m gonna start watching wrestling"

The Chris Jericho tweet -It´s not that Ironic. Leasnar was a physical specimen and a beast, a gut destroys that image a little. Jercho was always more of a mic worker who destroyed his opponents verbally and then took them down in the ring due to his great wrestling skills. He can have a little belly (but otherwise I agree, he really has let himself go)


----------



## OwenSES

Fans of other sports always shit on wrestling. It's been like that for years. AEW is no exception.


----------



## midgetlover69

Two Sheds said:


> I am not sure there has been a post on here I disagree more than with than this one (I have seen a few similar ones before and called them all out).
> 
> Attention spans are NOT smaller than ever. Long form podcasts about complex topics have immensely more views than news shows with constant commercials and six minute segments that would appeal to people if they had short attention spans. Saying humans have shorter attention spans is one of the largest misunderstandings of our time. For me, the issue is clearly there is just so much more content and so much of it is mediocre to bad that few people want to watch it.
> 
> We saw the poll of why people no longer watch wrestling. We know why they no longer watch. And from what I am seeing, a lot of these people tuned in after the NBA game and laughed at what they saw and not in a good way.
> 
> "Nothing any promotion does at this point could appeal to the mainstream audience anymore. That ship has sailed."
> 
> I disagree with this line of thinking so much and it IS wrong. This is the line of thinking of someone in 1995 saying wrestling just will never be able to be as good as the golden era of the 80's. You can even make a similar case of someone in the early 80's saying nothing could ever make wrestling like it was in earlier eras too. What NONSENSE. I imagine people with this mindset living around the year 2000 saying things like "wow, why do they keep trying to make movies based on comic books? Those things are never going to appeal to normal people. Batman & Robin was horrible, they should just stop trying. NOTHING they do could appeal to a mainstream audience!"
> 
> Your mindset has been proven wrong time, after time, after time. Leave your defeatism at the door please. It is a built in excuse for mediocrity.
> 
> The Attitude Era would of course not be as popular today because it reflected society AT THE TIME, not today. That is the whole point. Same goes for every era of EVERYTHING, not just wrestling. You think something like M*A*S*H would be as popular today this far removed from the Korean War? Come on. And this is not just a rant directed at you, but everyone with this defeatist attitude because you are all so hilariously wrong.
> 
> Side note: I hope someone has posted this since deleted tweet from Jericho in here because it is so deliciously ironic:
> 
> View attachment 95158


knew somebody would be able to say it better


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Who is insecure enough to worry about what a bunch of randoms on twitter care about a TV show they watch lol.

Imagine the Attitude Era was aired these days what ridicule is would garner on social media. Much of the content was hardly cool, unless you were a child or teenager. 90% of my peers all shat on wrestling because it was fake, even back then. 

At the end of the day, who cares? 🤔


----------



## Klitschko

I did not read any of the pages. Couple of things in the op.

1. They are a year old company. Can't really be competing with WWE on who is more mainstream when you have 1/50th the legacy WWE does. WWE/WWF is all most people know when it comes to pro wrestling.

2. Of course they are not mainstream. They get a million viewers on a good week. Pro wrestling just isn't that mainstream anymore and has not been in a long time.

3. The posts are cherry picked to fit an agenda. Just like how you found posts where people are shitting on Jericho/AEW, im sure if you look you could probably find people posting about how awesome AEW is and make a thread on here saying "look how mainstream AEW is".

4. They could do a better job of getting themselves out there. For example telling people like Shaq who has 15 million followers to tweet he will be on the show. They pay him and Tyson a ton of money for 0 advertising.

5. Great post @Two Sheds


----------



## One Shed

A PG Attitude said:


> You need to watch it immediately. The Mandalorian is the Star Wars fans have been crying out for for the last 30 years... imagine if Vince suddenly decided to give us everything we wanted all the time... that's The Mandalorian.


And this is also a GREAT comparison to all the people on here saying wrestling just CANNOT (by some natural law apparently) become mainstream or great again. I mean why even bother trying?!?

Star Wars had for DECADES put out piss poor to mediocre content. Jar Jar Binks is basically the Orange Cassidy or Jelly Janela of Star Wars. They made a pretty craptastic prequel trilogy AND sequel trilogy. But then out of nowhere the same company that made the sequel trilogy (Disney) made amazing stuff like Rogue One and The Mandalorian. Luckily for Star Wars fans the "why even bother" crowd lost this one. I hope they lose their weird love of wrestling being dumb and goofy and niche too.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Raw Smackdown said:


> No and No.


“No and no” isn’t a good reply. You’re just saying something to just be saying it.



K4L318 said:


> nah they cant. There arent any more Tyson 98 figures in wrestling dat drove viewership numbers sky high wit a once in a lifetime talent like Austin.


The viewership wasn’t high because of Tyson. It was high because the shows made viewers want to tune in and see what was going to happen so yes they can become mainstream again.


----------



## RapShepard

The denial in this thread is heavy as fuck. While @Chip Chipperson airs on the critical side, it's not like he paid for people to kill Jericho on Twitter. This isn't going to destroy AEW or anything like that. But this is hardly the look they'd want when they got a lead in from the fucking NBA. Trying to down play it as if it doesn't matter is silly as hell.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RapShepard said:


> The denial in this thread is heavy as fuck. While @Chip Chipperson airs on the critical side, it's not like he paid for people to kill Jericho on Twitter. This isn't going to destroy AEW or anything like that. But this is hardly the look they'd want when they got a lead in from the fucking NBA. Trying to down play it as if it doesn't matter is silly as hell.



I made peace with the fact that most people think wrestling is fake BS many years ago. I don't find it surprising and it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the show.


----------



## RapShepard

Pentagon Senior said:


> I made peace with the fact that most people think wrestling is fake BS many years ago. I don't find it surprising and it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the show.


It definitely shouldn't change how you feel about the show. But when a show gets a look like this, that's certainly not the response they'd want.


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> The denial in this thread is heavy as fuck. While @Chip Chipperson airs on the critical side, it's not like he paid for people to kill Jericho on Twitter. This isn't going to destroy AEW or anything like that. But this is hardly the look they'd want when they got a lead in from the fucking NBA. Trying to down play it as if it doesn't matter is silly as hell.


It is especially crazy because they have shown they CAN put on very good shows when they try. They had TWO times this month to get lapsed or new fans. I would argue the much larger chance was the week after Sting debuted when they decided to mail in a shit sandwich. Last night was less of one because of the late start of the show but they still did have am chance to grab NBA fans and they presented Jerigut.


----------



## RapShepard

Two Sheds said:


> It is especially crazy because they have shown they CAN put on very good shows when they try. They had TWO times this month to get lapsed or new fans. I would argue the much larger chance was the week after Sting debuted when they decided to mail in a shit sandwich. Last night was less of one because of the late start of the show but they still did have am chance to grab NBA fans and they presented Jerigut.


Yeah they're definitely in a slump right now, shit happens. But I'm sure they'll get another chance as the NBA season is going to be all over the place this year.


----------



## wrasslin_casual

.christopher. said:


> There is a difference, imo.
> 
> WWE is WWE. You know you're going to get childish, unwatchable shit.
> 
> With AEW, they're new. They have a chance to show casuals a fresh new alternative when they get a chance like tonight but, because of their own stupidity and incompetence, they come off as another WWE and kill their own chances of growing their audience.


This is so spot on! Regardless of what WWE is now, when a casual, even someone like me who watches every so often, tunes in, I know exactly what to expect. WWE has name value. 


If I tuned into AEW for the first time, hadn't seen wrestling in 10 or 20 years and I saw what they do...I would never switch back lo


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

They hid the likes/dislikes ratio on Youtube so I guess they noticed


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RapShepard said:


> It definitely shouldn't change how you feel about the show. But when a show gets a look like this, that's certainly not the response they'd want.


Fair enough. One point I would make though is that everyone shits on everything these days lol, it seems to be the done thing esp on social media. I also have no idea how 'cherry picked' these random comments are but knowing Chip the answer is likely - very. Final point, I don't see AEW maintaining any major bumps in the near future. If they manage to grow - and I hope they do - it will be a very gradual process imo. I don't see them gaining a few hundred thousand viewers permanently from one show, so I'm not sure it's that big of a deal in that regard.


----------



## shadow_spinner

A PG Attitude said:


> The biggest thing I took from this thread is that Chip went and found a bunch of tweets from some random nobodies to continue his agenda of shitting on AEW at every possible opportunity. You need to find a new hobby, one that makes you happy.


Jericho was trending on twitter tho.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Ozell Gray said:


> “No and no” isn’t a good reply. You’re just saying something to just be saying it.


Perfect response honestly.


----------



## shadow_spinner

BTW, can we please stop saying "NBA fans" as if both fandoms are mutually exclusive. I'm a fan of wrestling and the NBA. Some fans like 1 thing, some fans like 6 things.


----------



## RapShepard

Pentagon Senior said:


> Fair enough. One point I would make though is that everyone shits on everything these days lol, it seems to be the done thing esp on social media. I also have no idea how 'cherry picked' these random comments are but knowing Chip the answer is likely - very. Final point, I don't see AEW maintaining any major bumps in the near future. If they manage to grow - and I hope they do - it will be a very gradual process imo. I don't see them gaining a few hundred thousand viewers permanently from one show, so I'm not sure it's that big of a deal in that regard.


I mean you can check the trend it's not really cherry picked at all. Wrestlinginc did a story on it as well. But yeah it's ultimately no big deal, but a great show for that crowd could've been a good thing.


----------



## DJ Punk

Two Sheds said:


> I am not sure there has been a post on here I disagree more than with than this one (I have seen a few similar ones before and called them all out).
> 
> Attention spans are NOT smaller than ever. Long form podcasts about complex topics have immensely more views than news shows with constant commercials and six minute segments that would appeal to people if they had short attention spans. Saying humans have shorter attention spans is one of the largest misunderstandings of our time. For me, the issue is clearly there is just so much more content and so much of it is mediocre to bad that few people want to watch it.
> 
> We saw the poll of why people no longer watch wrestling. We know why they no longer watch. And from what I am seeing, a lot of these people tuned in after the NBA game and laughed at what they saw and not in a good way.
> 
> "Nothing any promotion does at this point could appeal to the mainstream audience anymore. That ship has sailed."
> 
> I disagree with this line of thinking so much and it IS wrong. This is the line of thinking of someone in 1995 saying wrestling just will never be able to be as good as the golden era of the 80's. You can even make a similar case of someone in the early 80's saying nothing could ever make wrestling like it was in earlier eras too. What NONSENSE. I imagine people with this mindset living around the year 2000 saying things like "wow, why do they keep trying to make movies based on comic books? Those things are never going to appeal to normal people. Batman & Robin was horrible, they should just stop trying. NOTHING they do could appeal to a mainstream audience!"
> 
> Your mindset has been proven wrong time, after time, after time. Leave your defeatism at the door please. It is a built in excuse for mediocrity.
> 
> The Attitude Era would of course not be as popular today because it reflected society AT THE TIME, not today. That is the whole point. Same goes for every era of EVERYTHING, not just wrestling. You think something like M*A*S*H would be as popular today this far removed from the Korean War? Come on. And this is not just a rant directed at you, but everyone with this defeatist attitude because you are all so hilariously wrong.
> 
> Side note: I hope someone has posted this since deleted tweet from Jericho in here because it is so deliciously ironic:
> 
> View attachment 95158


I'm not sure I agree with your point about attention spans. Many people just play podcasts while they're multi-tasking and aren't 100% tuned into what they're hearing. But for most people who do listen to podcasts, they're the ones with larger attention spans than most. You'll notice as well that many YT videos have decreased in length over the years and it has become a more successful model than posting long 10 min+ videos. But let's agree to disagree.


As for your point about wrestling, I'll just say I admire your optimism if anything. I can see you really believe it has a chance to be mainstream again and you're not 100% wrong. A new generation of people growing up with wrestling could potentially make that happen (in theory). All your points are valid as well. However, wrestling now has a certain stigma it didn't really have in the past. That being..."It's fake". Sure, some people knew back in 95' but it wasn't as widely known. And you can say "well comics and movies are fake too". "Many things are fake". And you'd be right. But unfortunately, it's generally viewed in a different light. It's hypocritical and a dumb reason, but it is what it is sadly.


And I brought up the AE argument because some people don't get that. You're 100% right about that. But some people think all we need is an AE-esque product with larger than life characters like Austin and The Rock and the mainstream will be back with the snap of a finger. And that is 100% wrong which I'm sure you know.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RapShepard said:


> I mean you can check the trend it's not really cherry picked at all. Wrestlinginc did a story on it as well. But yeah it's ultimately no big deal, but a great show for that crowd could've been a good thing.


Ok thanks, I don't do social media generally so I'll take your word for it.

I was more annoyed last week personally as it was a worse show imo and followed the Sting bump. But in general I don't expect a great show every week and they have a few specials coming up which are likely to be better.

According to certain narratives it's panic stations every week at AEW 😅


----------



## One Shed

DJ Punk said:


> I'm not sure I agree with your point about attention spans. Many people just play podcasts while they're multi-tasking and aren't 100% tuned into what they're hearing. But for most people who do listen to podcasts, they're the ones with larger attention spans than most. You'll notice as well that many YT videos have decreased in length over the years and it has become a more successful model than posting long 10 min+ videos. But let's agree to disagree.
> 
> 
> As for your point about wrestling, I'll just say I admire your optimism if anything. I can see you really believe it has a chance to be mainstream again and you're not 100% wrong. A new generation of people growing up with wrestling could potentially make that happen (in theory). All your points are valid as well. However, wrestling now has a certain stigma it didn't really have in the past. That being..."It's fake". Sure, some people knew back in 95' but it wasn't as widely known. And you can say "well comics and movies are fake too". "Many things are fake". And you'd be right. But unfortunately, it's generally viewed in a different light. It's hypocritical and a dumb reason, but it is what it is sadly.
> 
> 
> And I brought up the AE argument because some people don't get that. You're 100% right about that. But some people think all we need is an AE-esque product with larger than life characters like Austin and The Rock and the mainstream will be back with the snap of a finger. And that is 100% wrong which I'm sure you know.


I think maybe we can split the difference on attention spans and say maybe it is harder to hold someone's attention than before because there are so many more things vying for it. However, once something manages to be good enough to warrant that attention, it will grab it right? That is what I am saying. I just do not think the actual average attention span for humans has declined in mere decades. Evolution just does not work like that. In the days of three networks on TV, it was either watch what was on one channel or the other or actually talk to your family.

I am not saying it WILL get popular again, only that it can. It will take hard work and talent to do so, just like it did before. I do disagree that it was not widely known in the 90's that wrestling was predetermined. I started watching at 13 and knew. I agree that wrestling and TV/movies are thought of very differently. You can portray rape and murder on TV or a movie in a worked setting but wrestling would never get away with having a real heel going around trying to rape the staff etc, especially today.

It is definitely wrong to think it will magically come back. Nothing in life works that way. It will take hard work and real effort to happen. It starts with not presenting crap like small children being portrayed as threats to adult humans. Start with something simple like that and the overall general big one of not insulting your audiences' intelligence and go from there.


----------



## CtrlAltDel

Now imagine if these fans find out Jericho is AEW first world champion.


----------



## validreasoning

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I mean WWE is Niche. Not a single thing you listed makes them legit visible.
> 
> When the E is on the scene like The Marvel Cinematic Universe then we can talk.


So basically everything that isn't the MCU is niche...


----------



## intelligent person

this isn't how mainstream views aew tho, it's how a couple of random nobodies on twitter views it lol

and even if it was,so fucking what,who cares? they would be even harsher regarding wwe which is way more childish,overall worse etc,so I don't see what's the point,who gives a shit and why if wrestling is mainstream or not? mainstream mostly sucks anyway


----------



## johnmangala

intelligent person said:


> this isn't how mainstream views aew tho, it's how a couple of random nobodies on twitter views it lol
> 
> and even if it was,so fucking what,who cares? they would be even harsher regarding wwe which is way more childish,overall worse etc,so I don't see what's the point,who gives a shit and why if wrestling is mainstream or not? mainstream mostly sucks anyway


Mainstream is NBA, NFL. That doesnt suck. Even MCU is mainstream, those dont suck either.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

NBA fans are legit retarded ..anyone still watching and enjoying it after all this blm and sjw woke shit have legit brain damage

"Hur dur jericho is fat"
Meanwhile they would cream themselves at oldburg who dispite looking decent looks about he's going to die 30 seconds into a match


----------



## Thomazbr

Actually 11 minutes videos are the prefered way of youtube videos nowadays because that's the maximum ad per lenght or something like that.
That's why if you follow any popular gaming youtuber you get tons of videos that really are like 30 seconds information stretched over 10 minutes.


----------



## intelligent person

johnmangala said:


> Mainstream is NBA, NFL. That doesnt suck. Even MCU is mainstream, those dont suck either.


nba isn't really mainstream last couple of years. but regardless, those clowns talkin shit on twitter are just FANS of nba, hence-nobodies. it's not like jordan,shaq etc,you know,some CELEBRITY,and thus ACTUAL mainstream,said aew is horrible etc,quite the contrary,shaq is working with them so..epic fail lol

MCU does suck, it's stupid cringy brainless crap for children and mentally handicapped


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Firefromthegods said:


> Why did this need to be a thread here @Chip Chipperson ? Are you wanting a discussion or for aew fans to be pissed off? Cause 316 calling fans marks isn't sending the right message especially when his mocking people for being fans of the express?
> 
> Is it to complain that wrestling which by its nature is not meant to be mainstream isn't mainstream what exactly is the purpose of this thread?
> 
> How is it any different from 316s constant hate threads?


We talk almost daily on here about how to attract lapsed fans to AEW, what they'd think of some of it, who or what could draw them back.

Yesterday we found out what they don't want and that's out of shape Jericho walking out on TV.

This isn't a hate thread it's interesting to me how general population or "non fans" feel about AEW. I'd be interested in their views on all wrestling.

I actually always sit my Mrs down after my shows (she sells tickets for me) and ask as a non fan what appealed, what didn't, what was fun, what was boring etc.

It's vital information.

Merry Christmas Big Dog



A PG Attitude said:


> The biggest thing I took from this thread is that Chip went and found a bunch of tweets from some random nobodies to continue his agenda of shitting on AEW at every possible opportunity. You need to find a new hobby, one that makes you happy.


I've got plenty of hobbies and interests. Thanks for the concern.



Thomazbr said:


> Dalton Castle is embarrassing tho


I like him although admittedly don't watch ROH that much so don't know what he's up to currently.



redban said:


> One of the persons quoted in OP admits he hasn’t watched wrestling in 11 years. How is his criticism of AEW meaingful when the person doesn’t like wrestling? And another person thought she was watching WWE, so she doesn’t have sense


Because he's a wrestling fan who has left. You know? The type of guy that AEW claimed they're trying to hook originally?



Klitschko said:


> I did not read any of the pages. Couple of things in the op.
> 
> 1. They are a year old company. Can't really be competing with WWE on who is more mainstream when you have 1/50th the legacy WWE does. WWE/WWF is all most people know when it comes to pro wrestling.
> 
> 2. Of course they are not mainstream. They get a million viewers on a good week. Pro wrestling just isn't that mainstream anymore and has not been in a long time.
> 
> 3. The posts are cherry picked to fit an agenda. Just like how you found posts where people are shitting on Jericho/AEW, im sure if you look you could probably find people posting about how awesome AEW is and make a thread on here saying "look how mainstream AEW is".
> 
> 4. They could do a better job of getting themselves out there. For example telling people like Shaq who has 15 million followers to tweet he will be on the show. They pay him and Tyson a ton of money for 0 advertising.
> 
> 5. Great post @Two Sheds


1. Nobody said they should be competing with WWE in the mainstream just that they could've given a better first impression.

2. Could change.

3. Admittedly I picked the funniest comments to make the thread appealing but I scrolled back quite far and the only positive Jericho comments were from AEW fans. NBA fans shit all over it which is why wrestling fans are reporting thousands of negative Jericho comments. It's not like the five or six in my original post were the only negative comments.

4. Agree but the product doesn't appeal to anyone outside the wrestling bubble. First they need an awesome product then they can worry about bringing in stars to let the world know they have an awesome product.


----------



## The XL 2

People can spin the sad state of the business all they want, but no one watches anymore because the talent is bad and the writing is worse. If this program started with Rock or Austin, or Taker and Kane, or Batista and HHH, or Cena and HBK in their primes, there would be millions upon millions of more people watching.


----------



## intelligent person

The XL 2 said:


> People can spin the sad state of the business all they want, but no one watches anymore because the talent is bad and the writing is worse. If this program started with Rock or Austin, or Taker and Kane, or Batista and HHH, or Cena and HBK in their primes, there would be millions upon millions of more people watching.


nope lol, the thing is that people just tend to look through rose-tinted glasses and falsely think that stars from attitude era were better,but they weren't,they were in fact drastically inferior,both in ring and on mic etc, they just had better booking,so it's all booking team's fault tbh


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

validreasoning said:


> So basically everything that isn't the MCU is niche...


No. I'm saying WWE isn't on that level just because you see some wrestlers on a show and on some sports channel that gets paid to cover them...


----------



## TKO Wrestling

.christopher. said:


> This shit was obviously going to happen, too. If any casual saw AEW they'd be immediately turned off, and if AEW's outlaw fuckfest doesn't drive them away, that fat bastard Jericho will.
> 
> Only AEW fans are blind to this. Well, them, and apparently their stupid management, too.


Apparently TNT since they seem to love AEW. And fans under 50, they seem rather fond of it also. Guess that just leaves old fans, hmmm.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

.christopher. said:


> There is a difference, imo.
> 
> WWE is WWE. You know you're going to get childish, unwatchable shit.
> 
> With AEW, they're new. They have a chance to show casuals a fresh new alternative when they get a chance like tonight but, because of their own stupidity and incompetence, they come off as another WWE and kill their own chances of growing their audience.


Yet they are the only wrestling company to grow their audience in 2020. Interesting. They were up 18%/28% on viewers and demos LAST week on a DOWN WEEK from the week before.

A few NBA fans laughed at wrestling, wont be the first or last time. They tune in for Luka & LeBron, not Omega & Reigns.


----------



## The XL 2

intelligent person said:


> nope lol, the thing is that people just tend to look through rose-tinted glasses and falsely think that stars from attitude era were better,but they weren't,they were in fact drastically inferior,both in ring and on mic etc, they just had better booking,so it's all booking team's fault tbh


I don't know in what deluded world you live in where guys like Hogan, Rock, Austin, Mick Foley, etc were worse on the mic than these guys. That's a pretty wild take. And pretty much no one knows how to work nowadays, all they know how to do is nonstop high spots.


----------



## The Sheik

Wrestling just isn't cool anymore. They are losing fans rapidly and using legends like Jericho or Sting, people are just going to wonder why the fuck they're still around after 30 years.


----------



## One Shed

intelligent person said:


> nope lol, the thing is that people just tend to look through rose-tinted glasses and falsely think that stars from attitude era were better,but they weren't,they were in fact drastically inferior,both in ring and on mic etc, they just had better booking,so it's all booking team's fault tbh


OK now I definitely know you are just a troll.


----------



## intelligent person

The XL 2 said:


> I don't know in what deluded world you live in where guys like Hogan, Rock, Austin, Mick Foley, etc were worse on the mic than these guys. That's a pretty wild take. And pretty much no one knows how to work nowadays, all they know how to do is nonstop high spots.


it's not ''deluded'', deluded is to think that some bald ugly wife beater was oh so insanely charismatic,good etc on his own,that booking didn't have aaanything to do with his popularity etc,gimme a break -.- if u give for example, to johnny gargano the same gimmick (rebelious anti-authority figure and beer drinking badass) he would also knock it out of the park,even more so than steven james anderson,cuz he's twice the worker than he is.
newsflash einstein,high spots=charisma=mic skills


----------



## Klitschko

@Chip Chipperson, I have not read through this thread yet. Have people attacked your personal life and mental health yet?


----------



## The XL 2

The Sheik said:


> Wrestling just isn't cool anymore. They are losing fans rapidly and using legends like Jericho or Sting, people are just going to wonder why the fuck they're still around after 30 years.


Why isn't it cool though? Even after the boom period of the Monday Night Wars, WWE would still draw 4+ million people on Raw and had stars like Cena, Batista, Bryan, Punk etc. They've fallen off of a cliff during the last 6-7 years.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> @Chip Chipperson, I have not read through this thread yet. Have people attacked your personal life and mental health yet?


Just my personal life not my mental health


----------



## Charzhino

The XL 2 said:


> Why isn't it cool though? Even after the boom period of the Monday Night Wars, WWE would still draw 4+ million people on Raw and had stars like Cena, Batista, Bryan, Punk etc. They've fallen off of a cliff during the last 6-7 years.


Cena killed the WWE. He was pushed to be marketed towards children and the smarks hated him which created the electric atmospheres of many ppvs ''lets go cena, cena sux''. All that worked at the time but it was on a terminal diagnosis. Cena and the booking did A LOT of childish, lame and cringey promos, segments that WWE are full on doing now. Once those children grew up and matured 8-10 years later they stopped watching because the WWE was stuck being a childrens shows. Once Cena stopped full time, the smarks remaining from the attitude era/ruthless aggression era stopped watching. Which leads us to the situation we are in now. WWE/wrestling has been a childrens programme for 10-12 years now. So when casuals tune in and see the childish antics on both top promotion shows, they tune out because they are embarrassed to be seen watching a childrens show.


----------



## One Shed

Charzhino said:


> Cena killed the WWE. He was pushed to be marketed towards children and the smarks hated him which created the electric atmospheres of many ppvs ''lets go cena, cena sux''. All that worked at the time but it was on a terminal diagnosis. Cena and the booking did A LOT of childish, lame and cringey promos, segments that WWE are full on doing now. Once those children grew up and matured 8-10 years later they stopped watching because the WWE was stuck being a childrens shows. Once Cena stopped full time, the smarks remaining from the attitude era/ruthless aggression era stopped watching. Which leads us to the situation we are in now. WWE/wrestling has been a childrens programme for 10-12 years now. So when casuals tune in and see the childish antics on both top promotion shows, they tune out because they are embarrassed to be seen watching a childrens show.


1000x this. I stopped watching because of Cena and his childish crap. I never want to see that goof again.


----------



## Klitschko

Chip Chipperson said:


> Just my personal life not my mental health


Well the day is still young.


----------



## LongPig666

Who gives two shits about casuals?


----------



## The XL 2

Charzhino said:


> Cena killed the WWE. He was pushed to be marketed towards children and the smarks hated him which created the electric atmospheres of many ppvs ''lets go cena, cena sux''. All that worked at the time but it was on a terminal diagnosis. Cena and the booking did A LOT of childish, lame and cringey promos, segments that WWE are full on doing now. Once those children grew up and matured 8-10 years later they stopped watching because the WWE was stuck being a childrens shows. Once Cena stopped full time, the smarks remaining from the attitude era/ruthless aggression era stopped watching. Which leads us to the situation we are in now. WWE/wrestling has been a childrens programme for 10-12 years now. So when casuals tune in and see the childish antics on both top promotion shows, they tune out because they are embarrassed to be seen watching a childrens show.


I don't know if he killed it, but I think Batista would have been the better choice long term as the FOTC instead of the number 2 guy.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Perfect response honestly.


It isn't though. It's not really giving any perspective or saying anything of substance. In order for AEW to be succ they have to get the casual audience and not just the smarks whom they already have watching. Depending on their smarks for your business isn't sustainable and is short sighted thinking. Every show and business is successful because of casuals not the hardcore people who they already have.


----------



## Scholes18

If people ever wanted to argue whether “the look”is important, there’s your answer definitively. Non fans perception of wrestling is heavily muscled people and when they don’t see it, they think it’s second rate.


----------



## DJ Punk

Twitter: "STOP FATSHAMING"

Also Twitter: "LOL JERICHO SO FAT NOW OMG"


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Chip Chipperson said:


> Due to the NBA game today AEW got a fair amount of crossover fans. They kicked the show off with Chris Jericho and it has hilariously backfired.
> 
> I've shared some posts below but also wanted to point out that much of what they're saying is how myself and others have said AEW is likely perceived by the fans who no longer watch.
> 
> Let us begin:
> 
> View attachment 95124
> 
> 
> This guy views AEW as a rip off of the WWE on his first impression.
> 
> View attachment 95125
> 
> 
> This woman seems to think she's actually watching WWE.
> 
> View attachment 95126
> 
> 
> "Is this supposed to be WWE?" Fucking oof
> 
> View attachment 95127
> 
> 
> Not good
> 
> View attachment 95128
> 
> 
> I don't think he means crazy in a good way...
> 
> View attachment 95129
> 
> 
> 
> "Horribly scripted"
> 
> View attachment 95130
> 
> 
> Will he tune back?
> 
> ---
> 
> This is the mainstream my friends. They are unforgiving and vicious but this is valuable insight for AEW
> 
> Stay away from the older guys from WWE, stick with guys who are in shape and marketable. Also get a proper creative team
> 
> Thanks guys, looking forward to your views
> 
> Lyle "Chip" Chipperson


So question is do you honestly think the mainstream sees any other brand differently?

If anything this also backs up what I've said about the millions of fans waiting for the right product to get back in to wrestling is completely made up.Wrestling is not viewed as cool by the vast majority of people.

Majority of comments were about a 50 year old looking out of shape......wow what a shocker that that would be the case lol.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Mr316 said:


> There you go. Do you see it now AEW marks? We’ve been telling you for weeks/months. There’s nothing cool about AEW. Dark Order...Marko Stunt...Luchasaurus...😂
> 
> Wake up marks! No one is gonna become a fan with these people on the show.


So you think if it was WWE and the mainstream seen viking raiders fight ninjas or Newday toss pancakes around while gyrating they would all be new fans instead of making fun of it?

Newsflash ......wrestling isn't cool to mainstream period.


----------



## Krin

I mean... no denying he looks like a washed up rockstar but it is what it is I guess.


----------



## Krin

Chip Chipperson said:


> Stay away from the older guys from WWE, stick with guys who are in shape and marketable. Also get a proper creative team
> 
> Thanks guys, looking forward to your views
> 
> Lyle "Chip" Chipperson


except, Goldberg still looks incredible and he's in shape. Don't associate old with fat.


----------



## johnmangala

intelligent person said:


> nba isn't really mainstream last couple of years. but regardless, those clowns talkin shit on twitter are just FANS of nba, hence-nobodies. it's not like jordan,shaq etc,you know,some CELEBRITY,and thus ACTUAL mainstream,said aew is horrible etc,quite the contrary,shaq is working with them so..epic fail lol
> 
> MCU does suck, it's stupid cringy brainless crap for children and mentally handicapped


Those are opinions.

NBA is definitely mainstream, just because it isnt the golden years doesnt say anything. Your jaded ass means shit. 

Mcu could be for babies but would still be mainstream. 

Both are better than AEW and WWE.


----------



## Krin

johnmangala said:


> Those are opinions.
> 
> NBA is definitely mainstream, just because it isnt the golden years doesnt say anything. Your jaded ass means shit.
> 
> Mcu could be for babies but would still be mainstream.
> 
> Both are better than AEW and WWE.


I can see both sides. Wrestling has always been a shameful form of entertainment to the mainstream. Wrestling fans shouldn't put too much weight into what these people think. They don't get wrestling. They're bandwagon fans that will flock to whatever facet is trending. Don't get me wrong, it would be great to have mainstream appeal like the attitude era days and I can see why they'd shit on AEW, it does feel like a glorified indy fed at times.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

$Dolladrew$ said:


> *So question is do you honestly think the mainstream sees any other brand differently?*
> 
> If anything this also backs up what I've said about the millions of fans waiting for the right product to get back in to wrestling is completely made up.Wrestling is not viewed as cool by the vast majority of people.
> 
> Majority of comments were about a 50 year old looking out of shape......wow what a shocker that that would be the case lol.


I can think of an Australian based amateur promotion they would think was great

All jokes aside - _newsflash_ most people think pro wrestling is lame


----------



## Dickhead1990

Jericho is still amazing at what he does, but his appearance is woeful! I'm not surprised that NBA fans were thrown by this!

As for the show itself, of course they've never heard of it, they're clearly not wrestling fans anymore - otherwise they would know that Jericho left in the first place.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pentagon Senior said:


> I can think of an Australian based amateur promotion they would think was great
> 
> All jokes aside - _newsflash_ most people think pro wrestling is lame


How is that remotely a joke? It's baiting after we agreed less than two weeks ago to stop.

Calling my group amateur is an insult to me and a ton of professional wrestlers.


----------



## StreetProfitsfan

Honestly, this shows out of touch you guys are on here and in wrestling. It doesn't matter who aew put out there, they was getting lit up by nba twitter. Don't matter if it was Jericho, moxley, Dalton castle???( This one funny cause they would have had a field day with him). 


It's all jokes. This is not going to kill aew. This is not an indication of " how bad aew is". This doesn't mean they cannot grow. 


All this was, was just folks having a field day at wrestling expense. If the table was turned and it was nxt, mlw, wcw, tna, lucha underground, it was getting put in a pack. 

NBA twitter is also the same people that makes jokes about legends in the game like Jordan and lebron. But I guess that mean the nba is trash huh? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnmangala

Krin said:


> I can see both sides. Wrestling has always been a shameful form of entertainment to the mainstream. Wrestling fans shouldn't put too much weight into what these people think. They don't get wrestling. They're bandwagon fans that will flock to whatever facet is trending. Don't get me wrong, it would be great to have mainstream appeal like the attitude era days and I can see why they'd shit on AEW, it does feel like a glorified indy fed at times.


But the point is they are casuals. They are the market these wrestling promotions want most. They want to cater to them, and that they are rejecting it still shows a lot.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> How is that remotely a joke? It's baiting after we agreed less than two weeks ago to stop.
> 
> Calling my group amateur is an insult to me and a ton of professional wrestlers.


Didn't mean to insult and didn't realise you were in the pro leagues 👍

The joke is these randoms on social media likely think all pro wrestling is lame but it was made into a predictable stab at AEW


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

Right off the bat let me just say that no I don't think this is a nuclear situation that threatens the future of the company.

But it's a bit of a black eye. You had a good spot after a big NBA game that brought tons of new, curious eyes to your product and instead of winning over fans you totally embarrassed yourself and gave the impression that your show is a cheap knockoff of WWE with its old, aging talent

Doesn't matter that it isn't reality, the social media narrative is going to be what dominants and AEW went viral for all the wrong reasons. This actually isn't good for its reputation. When a show makes itself easy fodder for jokes, the social media crowds are going to keep going back to that well and sooner or later your product has been sorted into the "lame" column in popular imagination

This won't lose AEW core supporters but it's such a sad missed opportunity. Imagine if all those new eyes had come out of the show thinking "hey this Darby Allin guy is cool, he reminds me of guys I used to love like Jeff Hardy" instead of "wow, Chris Jericho looks washed up on this bootleg show"

I like AEW a lot so I honestly think this situation sucks but I hope they can use it as an opportunity to fine tune their product even more. At least their corniness is being aired out by eyes that come from outside the wrestling bubble. That's ultimately still better than living totally in the segregated bubble universe of an 80 year old man

But I think this speaks to why wrestling in general needs to drastically change everything about its presentation if the industry wants to be "cool" again because bursting the bubble really exposed how little their is for new fans to latch on to


----------



## 304418

This topic is super weird.

Let me get this straight:

AEW fans, who have been critiquing Jericho’s physique for months now and thinking that he is trying to be one of the cool kids with his wrestling antics (like MJF), and have also thought that AEW is a rip off of WWE. Are now upset because NBA fans are critiquing Jericho’s physique and that he is still trying to hang with the cool kids (like MJF), and think AEW is a rip off of WWE. And that these critiques by these fans is a sign that wrestling isn’t cool anymore.

Whaaa? Did I miss something? This is what has gone 15+ pages? Sounds like there is an overlap with the AEW and NBA fanbases more than anything else.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Pentagon Senior said:


> I can think of an Australian based amateur promotion they would think was great
> 
> All jokes aside - _newsflash_ most people think pro wrestling is lame


Yeah I've been saying this since I joined this forum.Also I've seen it tossed around that the right wrestling product could bring back millions of viewers who used to watch.......not true at all.I don't care what product you put together it will never reach 10 million viewers on the regular ever again. 

Kayfabe is fucking dead,everyone knows its predetermined so it severely limits the audience.There is MMA other combat sports if you want to watch fighting,and there is better drama and storylines on tv,movies if you want that.At the end of the day you got 2 guys/gals in colorful spandex play fighting it does not appeal to alot of people.

People can laugh at the knock off WWE comments but these are from people who dont watch wrestling. It's no different then someone watching Bellator mma for the first time and seeing Frank Mir and laugh at how fat he is and say he's in the knock off UFC.People who don't know shit about the sport think UFC=MMA/WWE=Pro Wrestling.I guarantee they'd be snickering at WWE or any other wrestling because it's simply not cool to the majority of people.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

CHAMPIONSHIPS said:


> Right off the bat let me just say that no I don't think this is a nuclear situation that threatens the future of the company.
> 
> But it's a bit of a black eye. You had a good spot after a big NBA game that brought tons of new, curious eyes to your product and instead of winning over fans you totally embarrassed yourself and gave the impression that your show is a cheap knockoff of WWE with its old, aging talent
> 
> Doesn't matter that it isn't reality, the social media narrative is going to be what dominants and AEW went viral for all the wrong reasons. This actually isn't good for its reputation. When a show makes itself easy fodder for jokes, the social media crowds are going to keep going back to that well and sooner or later your product has been sorted into the "lame" column in popular imagination
> 
> This won't lose AEW core supporters but it's such a sad missed opportunity. Imagine if all those new eyes had come out of the show thinking "hey this Darby Allin guy is cool, he reminds me of guys I used to love like Jeff Hardy" instead of "wow, Chris Jericho looks washed up on this bootleg show"
> 
> I like AEW a lot so I honestly think this situation sucks but I hope they can use it as an opportunity to fine tune their product even more. At least their corniness is being aired out by eyes that come from outside the wrestling bubble. That's ultimately still better than living totally in the segregated bubble universe of an 80 year old man
> 
> But I think this speaks to why wrestling in general needs to drastically change everything about its presentation if the industry wants to be "cool" again because bursting the bubble really exposed how little their is for new fans to latch on to


Spot the fuck on.👍


----------



## validreasoning

$Dolladrew$ said:


> So you think if it was WWE and the mainstream seen viking raiders fight ninjas or Newday toss pancakes around while gyrating they would all be new fans instead of making fun of it?
> 
> Newsflash ......wrestling isn't cool to mainstream period.


Attitude Era fans sat through Mr Socko, Mae Young giving birth to a hand, beaver cleavage. Go back a little further you had Doink and Dink, the Gooker, Mantaur, Red Rooster and so it's not like anyone should be tuning into wwe expecting a serious ahow


----------



## $Dolladrew$

validreasoning said:


> Attitude Era fans sat through Mr Socko, Mae Young giving birth to a hand, beaver cleavage. Go back a little further you had Doink and Dink, the Gooker, Mantaur, Red Rooster and so it's not like anyone should be tuning into wwe expecting a serious ahow


That is part of the reason it isn't popular and is laughed at by the majority of people today. It's not a real sporting event and the acting is second rate.


----------



## The Wood

It’s amazing how many wrestling fans think wrestling is shit and don’t want it to get any better.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> It’s amazing how many wrestling fans think wrestling is shit and don’t want it to get any better.


I've only ever seen you refer negatively to wrestling and I've never seen you give a realistic alternative that is successful and ticks all your boxes. A lot of us here really like AEW. If anyone hates wrestling...



validreasoning said:


> Attitude Era fans sat through Mr Socko, Mae Young giving birth to a hand, beaver cleavage. Go back a little further you had Doink and Dink, the Gooker, Mantaur, Red Rooster and so it's not like anyone should be tuning into wwe expecting a serious ahow


Imagine social media and message boards were popular back then!



$Dolladrew$ said:


> Yeah I've been saying this since I joined this forum.Also I've seen it tossed around that the right wrestling product could bring back millions of viewers who used to watch.......not true at all.I don't care what product you put together it will never reach 10 million viewers on the regular ever again.
> 
> Kayfabe is fucking dead,everyone knows its predetermined so it severely limits the audience.There is MMA other combat sports if you want to watch fighting,and there is better drama and storylines on tv,movies if you want that.At the end of the day you got 2 guys/gals in colorful spandex play fighting it does not appeal to alot of people.
> 
> People can laugh at the knock off WWE comments but these are from people who dont watch wrestling. It's no different then someone watching Bellator mma for the first time and seeing Frank Mir and laugh at how fat he is and say he's in the knock off UFC.People who don't know shit about the sport think UFC=MMA/WWE=Pro Wrestling.I guarantee they'd be snickering at WWE or any other wrestling because it's simply not cool to the majority of people.


Yup, 95% of my friends would never watch pro wrestling these days and it's not because there's 'too many flips'


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Yup, 95% of my friends would never watch pro wrestling these days and it's not because there's 'too many flips'


Then don’t do so many flips? How’s that for a realistic scenario?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> Then don’t do so many flips? How’s that for a realistic scenario?


Think you misread my post


----------



## somerandomfan

While Jericho's physique is a bad look to newcomers, I think the bigger problem AEW had was how many NBA fans referred to it as a "WWE knockoff". Although that kind of speaks to the industry as a whole though.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Think you misread my post


How? You said I’m always negative (lie) and that I don’t provide any realistic scenarios to improve things (lie again). Your friends don’t watch because there are too many flips? Cut out the flips.

Where have I misread?



somerandomfan said:


> While Jericho's physique is a bad look to newcomers, I think the bigger problem AEW had was how many NBA fans referred to it as a "WWE knockoff". Although that kind of speaks to the industry as a whole though.


AEW hasn’t done enough to set themselves apart. Would any wrestling get the same response? Maybe. But they knew it wasn’t WWE (well, most people). But they knew it was a knock-off.


----------



## hardcorewrasslin

So a literal handful of NBA fans out of the 800kish viewers of the show dissed Jericho’s physique on Twitter... Hmmm okayyyy? How is this a good indication of anything? the mean everybody disses Jericho’s physique, even AEW fans.

Chip, don’t you have a failed indie promotion to go and manage? lmao!


----------



## The Wood

hardcorewrasslin said:


> So a literal handful of NBA fans out of the 800kish viewers of the show dissed Jericho’s physique on Twitter... Hmmm okayyyy? How is this a good indication of anything? the mean everybody disses Jericho’s physique, even AEW fans.
> 
> Chip, don’t you have a failed indie promotion to go and manage? lmao!


You sound sore. They also lost about 1.5 million people from the lead-in.


----------



## hardcorewrasslin

The Wood said:


> You sound sore. They also lost about 1.5 million people from the lead-in.


I dunno from where you got that number but regardless, they retained their regular viewers, if anything this shows that basketball fans don’t like pro wrestling and the Twitter comments indicate that like 8 people think Jericho’s fat, which isn’t breaking news either.

Let’s face it wrestling is a niche product for a niche crowd and both promotions are


----------



## The Wood

hardcorewrasslin said:


> I dunno from where you got that number but regardless, they retained their regular viewers, if anything this shows that basketball fans don’t like pro wrestling and the Twitter comments indicate that like 8 people think Jericho’s fat, which isn’t breaking news either.
> 
> Let’s face it wrestling is a niche product for a niche crowd and both promotions are


Another one! Wrestling might be more popular if it were better.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> How? You said I’m always negative (lie) and that I don’t provide any realistic scenarios to improve things (lie again). Your friends don’t watch because there are too many flips? Cut out the flips.
> 
> Where have I misread?


I said NOT because there's too many flips. Easily missed, no stress.


----------



## Shleppy

In 5 years when AEW is declared bankrupt we’ll look back on threads like this and wonder what could have been

This is a company that has the Young Bucks as executives, that’s all you need to know


----------



## StreetProfitsfan

Shleppy said:


> In 5 years when AEW is declared bankrupt we’ll look back on threads like this and wonder what could have been
> 
> This is a company that has the Young Bucks as executives, that’s all you need to know


Since you can tell the future, what are the lottery numbers for next month 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## shandcraig

Shleppy said:


> In 5 years when AEW is declared bankrupt we’ll look back on threads like this and wonder what could have been
> 
> This is a company that has the Young Bucks as executives, that’s all you need to know



lets hope that is not the case and in the next year and actually 2 years basing this around covid , lets hope the company has mega changes of direction and everything. They have such a chace at this to become big. But if they blow it so far i would say im not suprised what so ever.But they can still figure it out. We all said that they would likely have a lot of change the first few years. Even cody said aew is yet to find its identity. It will prob find its idenity in a year and likely once a lot of guys have come and gone. 

it will be great for AEW once guys are coming and going and they stop acting like its a honey moon and get down to business. They have managed to setup this company to be ran like a proper structured business which i cant say TNA ever figured out.So now they just have to figure out its direction and also stop being so dam save.


----------



## hardcorewrasslin

The Wood said:


> Another one! Wrestling might be more popular if it were better.


Wrestling is not popular because of its toxic fandom


----------



## Chip Chipperson

hardcorewrasslin said:


> Chip, don’t you have a failed indie promotion to go and manage? lmao!


Don't shy away from this question. Be brave.

How has my promotion "failed"?

Actively ran shows in 2020

Has made small profits on my tax return every single year it's ran.

Scheduled for six events already for 2021 including four paid events

What's failing about it? Don't be like Dammitchrist and claim that anything except the top ten promotions in the world is a failure


----------



## somerandomfan

The Wood said:


> AEW hasn’t done enough to set themselves apart. Would any wrestling get the same response? Maybe. But they knew it wasn’t WWE (well, most people). But they knew it was a knock-off.


I think that's more just a comment on the industry as a whole really, other companies get called WWE all the time just because non-wrestling fans think that's the entire industry. Hell I remember like 2015 when Impact did the worked injury to Jeff Hardy before the UK tour tapings (he was still on probation from the 2011 incident) some non wrestling sources were saying "Jeff Hardy injured at WWE show" or something like that.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> I said NOT because there's too many flips. Easily missed, no stress.


Ah, didn’t pay enough attention to ya. Sorry. Why don’t they watch?


----------



## yeahright2

somerandomfan said:


> I think that's more just a comment on the industry as a whole really, other companies get called WWE all the time just because non-wrestling fans think that's the entire industry. Hell I remember like 2015 when Impact did the worked injury to Jeff Hardy before the UK tour tapings (he was still on probation from the 2011 incident) some non wrestling sources were saying "Jeff Hardy injured at WWE show" or something like that.


Yep, I saw those reports at the time too, and was thinking "FFS, get your facts straight!" To a lot of people, wrestling _IS _WWE


----------



## CMPunkRock316

I don't care about twitter tards or the NBA.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

The Wood said:


> Ah, didn’t pay enough attention to ya. Sorry. Why don’t they watch?


Because of all the things I've already listed.....


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> We talk almost daily on here about how to attract lapsed fans to AEW, what they'd think of some of it, who or what could draw them back.
> 
> Yesterday we found out what they don't want and that's out of shape Jericho walking out on TV.
> 
> This isn't a hate thread it's interesting to me how general population or "non fans" feel about AEW. I'd be interested in their views on all wrestling.
> 
> I actually always sit my Mrs down after my shows (she sells tickets for me) and ask as a non fan what appealed, what didn't, what was fun, what was boring etc.
> 
> It's vital information.
> 
> Merry Christmas Big Dog
> 
> 
> 
> I've got plenty of hobbies and interests. Thanks for the concern.
> 
> 
> 
> I like him although admittedly don't watch ROH that much so don't know what he's up to currently.
> 
> 
> 
> Because he's a wrestling fan who has left. You know? The type of guy that AEW claimed they're trying to hook originally?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Nobody said they should be competing with WWE in the mainstream just that they could've given a better first impression.
> 
> 2. Could change.
> 
> 3. Admittedly I picked the funniest comments to make the thread appealing but I scrolled back quite far and the only positive Jericho comments were from AEW fans. NBA fans shit all over it which is why wrestling fans are reporting thousands of negative Jericho comments. It's not like the five or six in my original post were the only negative comments.
> 
> 4. Agree but the product doesn't appeal to anyone outside the wrestling bubble. First they need an awesome product then they can worry about bringing in stars to let the world know they have an awesome product.


Just making sure. Wrestlingfan82 i think also explained its more an indictment on Jericho's appearance representing aews product badly.


----------



## alex0816

"oh man some random twitter folk called Jericho fat, lets a make a thread about how they are completely normal people and their opinion is gospel and if they don't like it, it must mean AEW is the absolute worse thing!!!!"

"we'll also call those random people "mainstream" instead of casual to make it sound worse, so funny!!"

y'all a fucking weird. like seriously. shouldn't this be considered a bait thread too?


----------



## CM Buck

hardcorewrasslin said:


> So a literal handful of NBA fans out of the 800kish viewers of the show dissed Jericho’s physique on Twitter... Hmmm okayyyy? How is this a good indication of anything? the mean everybody disses Jericho’s physique, even AEW fans.
> 
> Chip, don’t you have a failed indie promotion to go and manage? lmao!


Do you want a week off? Stop with the personal attacks and grow up

@alex0816 this is a criticism thread about Jericho’s appearance not being a good representation of aew. Jericho deserves to be called out for letting himself go.


----------



## alex0816

Firefromthegods said:


> Do you want a week off? Stop with the personal attacks and grow up
> 
> @alex0816 this is a criticism thread about Jericho’s appearance not being a good representation of aew. Jericho deserves to be called out for letting himself go.


no it's not. it's another bash AEW thread with a poor reason to even be made by someone who likes absolutely nothing about AEW to begin with.

idk how thats not labeled bait. the other people who don't like AEW are gonna have a blast bashing it cause some random twitter people said some things, and some people think this thread is rediculous based on the replies i saw because it's a poor reason to make a thread and push a narrative that "completely normal people(whatever the hell that means) don't like their first impression of AEW, so that means they suck"

do you really think Ol Chip would have made a thread saying "AEW gets love from mainstream audience who haven't watched wrestling in a decade" if the posts were positve?


----------



## RapShepard

The amount of whining to mods is ridiculous lol


----------



## CM Buck

alex0816 said:


> no it's not. it's another bash AEW thread with a poor reason to even be made by someone who likes absolutely nothing about AEW to begin with.
> 
> idk how thats not labeled bait. the other people who don't like AEW are gonna have a blast bashing it cause some random twitter people said some things, and some people think this thread is rediculous based on the replies i saw because it's a poor reason to make a thread and push a narrative that "completely normal people(whatever the hell that means) don't like their first impression of AEW, so that means they suck"
> 
> do you really think Ol Chip would have made a thread saying "AEW gets love from mainstream audience who haven't watched wrestling in a decade" if the posts were positve?


Chip didn't verify it an aew fan did cause i thought it was a generic hate thread. They're the ones that explained Jericho being fat and pushed reflects badly on the product.

Its not. I trust the independent source


----------



## alex0816

Firefromthegods said:


> Chip didn't verify it an aew fan did cause i thought it was a generic hate thread. They're the ones that explained Jericho being fat and pushed reflects badly on the product.
> 
> Its not. I trust the independent source


no matter who started it, the narrative is baseless. again, this thread wouldn't be made if the narrative was positive. but whatever.


----------



## The Wood

alex0816 said:


> no matter who started it, the narrative is baseless. again, this thread wouldn't be made if the narrative was positive. but whatever.


Drop it, mate. This is now becoming a wrestling meme of sorts. People are noticing how bad Jericho is getting.


----------



## CM Buck

alex0816 said:


> no matter who started it, the narrative is baseless. again, this thread wouldn't be made if the narrative was positive. but whatever.


There is some truth to it. Jericho looks horrible and its something Tony needs to sort out thats a fact. But is aew not being mainstream as bad as some are implying? Certainly not.

But that's up for debate. And its gotten aew attention so should the publicity be not discussed?


----------



## qntntgood

The Wood said:


> You sound sore. They also lost about 1.5 million people from the lead-in.


I'm interested in the hour by hour numbers,because it wouldn't surprise me at all.if the numbers dropped each and every hour,aew got torn to shredded's by casual viewing audience.


----------



## alex0816

Firefromthegods said:


> There is some truth to it. Jericho looks horrible and its something Tony needs to sort out thats a fact. But is aew not being mainstream as bad as some are implying? Certainly not.
> 
> But that's up for debate. And its gotten aew attention so should the publicity be not discussed?


what attention? some nba fans calling jericho fat?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

alex0816 said:


> no matter who started it, the narrative is baseless. again, this thread wouldn't be made if the narrative was positive. but whatever.


For what it's worth I'd have made the thread if the comments were positive.


----------



## CM Buck

alex0816 said:


> what attention? some nba fans calling jericho fat?


Not them. It trended for a while which means Jericho is likely to mention it next week.


----------



## kamaro011

Any self respecting and sane person will look at AEW and say "This is a shit product, WTF i'm watching".

You don't need confirmation from twitter or any social media for what we have been saying for the past month.


----------



## The Wood

alex0816 said:


> what attention? some nba fans calling jericho fat?


Yes. It’s representative of the 1.25 million people you lost off your lead-in.

If you want to talk demos (ugh), the NBA went from a 0.8 to AEW’s 0.32. Ouch. For comparison, Friends got a 0.22 at 3pm that day. I wonder what it would have done following up the NBA? What if TNT works out they’re better off doing a Friends marathon every Wednesday night?


----------



## alex0816

kamaro011 said:


> Any self respecting and sane person will look at AEW and say "This is a shit product, WTF i'm watching".
> 
> You don't need confirmation from twitter or any social media for what we have been saying for the past month.


post like this basically prove my point from my previous post



The Wood said:


> Yes. It’s representative of the 1.25 million people you lost off your lead-in.


cause all those people would have kept their eyes locked in the tv if not for jericho? there were 3 other people involved in the match. people on twitter only paying attention to jericho isn't on AEW.


----------



## CM Buck

alex0816 said:


> post like this basically prove my point from my previous post
> 
> 
> cause all those people would have kept their eyes locked in the tv if not for jericho? there were 3 other people involved in the match. people on twitter only paying attention to jericho isn't on AEW.


Good point. @kamaro011 i hope you are referring to the last 3 weak shows


----------



## The Wood

alex0816 said:


> post like this basically prove my point from my previous post
> 
> 
> cause all those people would have kept their eyes locked in the tv if not for jericho? there were 3 other people involved in the match. people on twitter only paying attention to jericho isn't on AEW.


They probably would have turned it off because it’s honestly a pretty bad product and it made a lot of them think it was bootleg WWE.

That’s not a good thing.


----------



## CM Buck

The Wood said:


> They probably would have turned it off because it’s honestly a pretty bad product and it made a lot of them think it was bootleg WWE.
> 
> That’s not a good thing.


For statements like this please say imo. This is a subjective opinion


----------



## kamaro011

Firefromthegods said:


> Good point. @kamaro011 i hope you are referring to the last 3 weak shows


There's more than just 3 last weak AEW Shows.

But yeah, i probably shouldn't implying that the other bases. No matter how much AEW is suck from my point of view.


----------



## CM Buck

kamaro011 said:


> There's more than just 3 last weak AEW Shows.
> 
> But yeah, i probably shouldn't implying that the other bases. No matter how much AEW is suck from my point of view.


Just do imo. Alot of people get upset about people trying to imply that aew is objectively bad. If there's an in my opinion or something similar then there's no dramas


----------



## kamaro011

Firefromthegods said:


> Just do imo. Alot of people get upset about people trying to imply that aew is objectively bad. If there's an in my opinion or something similar then there's no dramas


Asking for no dramas in internet forum boards is asking for a world peace, not possible i'm afraid.

I mean we have rant subforum that encourages drama, so there's that.

Anyway i will try to behave and focusing my opinion on AEW product and not on individual board member (no matter how much they asking for it to bait).


----------



## The Wood

I think it’s a bit silly we have to overtly state what our opinions are when it’s obviously implied.

“AEW sucks” hurts their feelings, but “AEW sucks imo” is going to be fine with them? You’re going to get whinged at anyway, haha.

Imo


----------



## CM Buck

The Wood said:


> I think it’s a bit silly we have to overtly state what our opinions are when it’s obviously implied.
> 
> “AEW sucks” hurts their feelings, but “AEW sucks imo” is going to be fine with them? You’re going to get whinged at anyway, haha.
> 
> Imo


I'm aware but it saves me having to repeat myself over and over again


----------



## kamaro011

The Wood said:


> I think it’s a bit silly we have to overtly state what our opinions are when it’s obviously implied.
> 
> “AEW sucks” hurts their feelings, but “AEW sucks imo” is going to be fine with them? You’re going to get whinged at anyway, haha.
> 
> Imo


I disagree with you on this, i'm just trying to be polite and stay out from trouble/drama.

But atleast from what i have seen so far the "Hater" group have a diversity on opinion and we may not always agree for everything related on Wrestling.


----------



## RapShepard

Firefromthegods said:


> Just do imo. Alot of people get upset about people trying to imply that aew is objectively bad. If there's an in my opinion or something similar then there's no dramas


This is silly, it's a forum people shouldn't need to have to throw in "imo" to protect people's sensitivities it's ridiculous. Some people think AEW is the best product going, they shouldn't need to clarify its their subject opinion just because someone might disagree. Some people think it's awful, they shouldn't need to throw in extra to protect people's feelings.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Firefromthegods said:


> For statements like this please say imo. This is a subjective opinion





Firefromthegods said:


> Just do imo. Alot of people get upset about people trying to imply that aew is objectively bad. If there's an in my opinion or something similar then there's no dramas


Who else's opinion would it be?


----------



## CM Buck

RapShepard said:


> This is silly, it's a forum people shouldn't need to have to throw in "imo" to protect people's sensitivities it's ridiculous. Some people think AEW is the best product going, they shouldn't need to clarify its their subject opinion just because someone might disagree. Some people think it's awful, they shouldn't need to throw in extra to protect people's feelings.


I also shouldn't have to repeat that over and over but some folk are unable to see the difference between subjective and objective


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Having to say "in my opinion" on an opinions forum is fucking ridiculous

In my opinion


----------



## RapShepard

Firefromthegods said:


> I also shouldn't have to repeat that over and over but some folk are unable to see the difference between subjective and objective


Tough titty if they don't get it, let em be upset. They'll live


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> Having to say "in my opinion" on an opinions forum is fucking ridiculous
> 
> In my opinion


Alright Alright get off my back i wasn't able to differentiate between a couple of opinions and thought they were said objectively.

Im just trying to keep folk happy


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Firefromthegods said:


> Alright Alright get off my back i wasn't able to differentiate between a couple of opinions and thought they were said objectively.
> 
> Im just trying to keep folk happy


Fuck em. If they're so sensitive they need every post to be tagged with "in my opinion" they can fuck off. I hope nobody here is genuinely that fucking sensitive.


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> Fuck em. If they're so sensitive they need every post to be tagged with "in my opinion" they can fuck off. I hope nobody here is genuinely that fucking sensitive.


I think if people didn't go out of way to undercut and invalidate other peoples opinions, this wouldn't be an issue.


----------



## The Wood

10gizzle said:


> I think if people didn't go out of way to undercut and invalidate other peoples opinions, this wouldn't be an issue.


This is me undercutting and invalidating your opinion. 

If AEW were better and stopped letting the inmates run the asylum, we wouldn't have a product that people felt self-conscious about defending. 

Get it together for the fans, AEW.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

10gizzle said:


> I think if people didn't go out of way to undercut and invalidate other peoples opinions, this wouldn't be an issue.


Bro every week it's something new with the loyalists here. Last week they were trying to get @Two Sheds banned for some ridiculous reason.

If we cave to it they'll just want more. Just like the left.


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> Bro every week it's something new with the loyalists here. Last week they were trying to get @Two Sheds banned for some ridiculous reason.
> 
> If we cave to it they'll just want more. Just like the left.


And there lies the problem. Its a wrestling company. Not a political ideology. If people treated AEW like a wrestling company and not the possible saviour or death knell of the industry there wouldn't be an issue.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Firefromthegods said:


> And there lies the problem. Its a wrestling company. Not a political ideology. If people treated AEW like a wrestling company and not the possible saviour or death knell of the industry there wouldn't be an issue.


Issue mainly comes from one side. I'd post the ban count but I've been asked nicely not to because it triggers people


----------



## 10gizzle

The Wood said:


> This is me undercutting and invalidating your opinion.
> 
> If AEW were better and stopped letting the inmates run the asylum, we wouldn't have a product that people felt self-conscious about defending.
> 
> Get it together for the fans, AEW.


And if you want to spend your time, week after week, saying the same old points, that's your perogative. More power to you brother. 

AEW should be better. They should have more structure and hold talent more accountable. Anybody who disagrees with that is a clown. 

My problem is what right you think you have to invalidate anybodies opinion? You've done it to me countless times already. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> Bro every week it's something new with the loyalists here. Last week they were trying to get @Two Sheds banned for some ridiculous reason.
> 
> If we cave to it they'll just want more. Just like the left.


On that point I'm with you man. It's bullshit on both ends of the spectrum. It's immature and laughable.

Can we not just ignore these people? Cut them off completely? It's like - should an adult bother getting into a petty, cyclical argument with a 14 year old?


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> Issue mainly comes from one side. I'd post the ban count but I've been asked nicely not to because it triggers people


Your side like the right are just less likely to accept something new and prefer the status quo because it worked years ago. Systemic wrestling if you will. And like the conservative anti gay pollys I'm assuming some of you actually like flippy guys and Orange Cassidy 

But yes you are right you don't have any alex Jones or tucker Carlson that live to antagonise. At best you are like bush or rand Paul moderate Republicans

@10gizzle i love you making logical points


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Firefromthegods said:


> Your side like the right are just less likely to accept something new and prefer the status quo because it worked years ago. Systemic wrestling if you will. And like the conservative anti gay pollys I'm assuming some of you actually like flippy guys and Orange Cassidy
> 
> But yes you are right you don't have any alex Jones or tucker Carlson that live to antagonise.
> 
> @10gizzle i love you making logical points


They wouldn't be Angry Aussies if they liked flippies and Orange Cassidy


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> They wouldn't be Angry Aussies if they liked flippies and Orange Cassidy


I've seen enough anti gay politicians found in gay clubs to be sceptical lol. For all I know shed could have a shed full of orange gear and thousands of gigabytes of young buck matches on a secret hard drive somewhere lol


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Firefromthegods said:


> I've seen enough anti gay politicians found in gay clubs to be sceptical lol. For all I know shed could have a shed full of orange gear and thousands of gigabytes of young buck matches on a secret hard drive somewhere lol


@Two Sheds any truth to this?

It'd break my heart if he was into that. He's one of the originals!


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> @Two Sheds any truth to this?
> 
> It'd break my heart if he was into that. He's one of the originals!


Im more worried about what dark stuffs bdons been hiding. Maybe his been the "invisible hand" pulling Cody's strings and he rants about Cody to throw us off


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Firefromthegods said:


> Im more worried about what dark stuffs bdons been hiding. Maybe his been the "invisible hand" pulling Cody's strings and he rants about Cody to throw us off


@bdon is way too far deep in Cody hatred for it to be a work

Maybe it's me, maybe the loyalists are right and I'm just a big troll that has a Kenny Omega autograph in my loungeroom not a Lou Thesz one.

Hammerstone has been quiet lately... perhaps him


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> @bdon is way too far deep in Cody hatred for it to be a work
> 
> Maybe it's me, maybe the loyalists are right and I'm just a big troll that has a Kenny Omega autograph in my loungeroom not a Lou Thesz one.
> 
> Hammerstone has been quiet lately... perhaps him


Just let them be man. Let them be blind loyalists. Shouldn't be any skin off your knuckle.

For fucks sake you were a promoter at one point, it's uncouth for you to engage with the simpletons.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

10gizzle said:


> Just let them be man. Let them be blind loyalists. Shouldn't be any skin off your knuckle.
> 
> For fucks sake you were a promoter at one point, it's uncouth for you to engage with the simpletons.


I'm a promoter currently, fam.


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> @bdon is way too far deep in Cody hatred for it to be a work
> 
> Maybe it's me, maybe the loyalists are right and I'm just a big troll that has a Kenny Omega autograph in my loungeroom not a Lou Thesz one.
> 
> Hammerstone has been quiet lately... perhaps him


Probably. I should just make civil war rant in the rants section instead of just trying to please all sides. Would probably be more entertaining than raven 3s banter


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Firefromthegods said:


> Probably. I should just make civil war rant in the rants section instead of just trying to please all sides. Would probably be more entertaining than raven 3s banter


I called out the guys on rants the bravest one was @KingofKings1524


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm a promoter currently, fam.


No shit. That's awesome man. Can you share any info (even via PM)? Would love to check out your work.

Makes it even more baffling that you're giving such people the time of your day.

Then again I'm nobody to tell anyone what to do. I'm just a big believer in picking your battles wisely.


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> I called out the guys on rants the bravest one was @KingofKings1524


Maybe you are right


----------



## Chip Chipperson

10gizzle said:


> No shit. That's awesome man. Can you share any info (even via PM)? Would love to check out your work.
> 
> Makes it even more baffling that you're giving such people the time of your day.
> 
> Then again I'm nobody to tell anyone what to do. I'm just a big believer in picking your battles wisely.


I love wrestling fans I'm one myself. I don't see myself as better or above anyone here and I've made heaps of friends.

Many on here really really know their shit


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> I love wrestling fans I'm one myself. I don't see myself as better or above anyone here and I've made heaps of friends.
> 
> Many on here really really know their shit


I'm moreso specially referring to a subset of fans that are found on both ends of the spectrum that clearly have no interest in open discussion and sensibility.

Those are the people I think should just be ignored.

It's akin to arguing with someone who believes the earth is flat.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Pretty much sums up r/SC defending the Dub


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

Lmao @ Chip and his other Australian sock accounts calling his low effort trolling "constructive criticism"


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Majmo_Mendez said:


> Lmao @ Chip and his other Australian sock accounts calling his low effort trolling "constructive criticism"


You're right mate, all 20 accounts are me and I somehow manage to not get caught for account sharing whilst also maintaining different writing styles


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Majmo_Mendez said:


> Lmao @ Chip and his other Australian sock accounts calling his low effort trolling "constructive criticism"


Yep I'm definitely Chip, totally bro.


----------



## The Wood

(stands up) I am Chip!


----------



## One Shed

Firefromthegods said:


> I've seen enough anti gay politicians found in gay clubs to be sceptical lol. For all I know shed could have a shed full of orange gear and thousands of gigabytes of young buck matches on a secret hard drive somewhere lol





Chip Chipperson said:


> @Two Sheds any truth to this?
> 
> It'd break my heart if he was into that. He's one of the originals!


Whoa now, you can call me just about any name you like, but accusing me of having (or as an IT person there actually existing) thousands of gigabytes of Young Bucks matches is quite insulting. I would hope that such a large number of that kind of video existing would not be possible, let alone someone taking up valuable space by having it purposefully.

We also all know that having the best selling shirt of the year from a site that boasts that ("probably" according to the owner's own words) 150,000 shirts being sold over seven years as their #1 seller of all time is somehow a lot. I would not be surprised to learn that Steve Austin still sells more shirts TODAY than OC based on this information. Has anyone on here actually encountered a human being they did not know walking around in an OC shirt in the past year? I know I have not. Now compare that to seeing people in Austin and Rock gear in the AE randomly on the street. As far as what is in my shed (I have only one, I have only discussed getting a second), and what is on my secret hard drives, it is mainly material your mom has sent me. Only the top quality for me.

I take your larger point about the most vocal anti-gay conservative politicians (Larry Craig, a hilarious amount of the televangelists) turning out to be completely into airport bathroom stuff with other dudes though. That does seem to be a thing. But that kind of a belief is based on ignorance of science (that same sex attraction is somehow a choice and not biology based) and a self hatred created by being brainwashed by nonsensical bronze age beliefs as children. Not liking most of what the Bucks do is more akin to having a problem if someone gets into the NBA and starts kicking the ball to pass it or as Cornette would say "as phony as a football bat." That kind of thing makes what you are doing no longer basketball. Calling that out does not translate to me secretly having been kicking basketballs in my shed for years. If anything, saying I loved Bucks matches would be EASIER than saying they suck. It would be the easy, lazy position to take. One would not have to do any work to say that. That is why SJW stuff is so insanely popular today. At the base of it, one does not need to know, and indeed if you look at the base philosophy of it one CANNOT know anything (there is no objective truth) so the less you know about reality the more qualified you are to be good at it. Just like stuff like the Bucks. The less you know about wrestling, the more likely you are to enjoy what they do.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Two Sheds said:


> Whoa now, you can call me just about any name you like, but accusing me of having (or as an IT person there actually existing) thousands of gigabytes of Young Bucks matches is quite insulting.


Come now Sheds, the jig is up; I know for a fact you have it, because I myself have it, and I am you, and you are me, and we are both Chip, and Chip is Wood. Why I am choosing to talk to myself like this over a public forum is beyond even me; who am I, what am I, which one is my real face!? Somebody please help us, I'm frightened.


----------



## One Shed

El Hammerstone said:


> Come now Sheds, the jig is up; I know for a fact you have it, because I myself have it, and I am you, and you are me, and we are both Chip, and Chip is Wood. Why I am choosing to talk to myself like this over a public forum is beyond even me; who am I, what am I, which one is my real face!? Somebody please help us, I'm frightened.


I knew I should have stopped letting us post when we went off our meds.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> @bdon is way too far deep in Cody hatred for it to be a work
> 
> Maybe it's me, maybe the loyalists are right and I'm just a big troll that has a Kenny Omega autograph in my loungeroom not a Lou Thesz one.
> 
> Hammerstone has been quiet lately... perhaps him


I am definitely as legit as they come. Fuck that piece of shit. Cody Runnels leaving AEW will be the day the company can grow.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> I am definitely as legit as they come. Fuck that piece of shit. Cody Runnels leaving AEW will be the day the company can grow.


Would you accept Cody strictly becoming a midcard guy?


----------



## Brad Boyd

They still had old guys wrestle back in the day but they werent featured prominently like they have been in WWE and AEW recently to an extent. But damn Goldust doesn't have much appeal left in him. It would be nice if pro wrestling felt like a youth movement again instead of having to rely on old stars to get numbers up.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Brad Boyd said:


> They still had old guys wrestle back in the day but they werent featured prominently like they have been in WWE and AEW recently to an extent. But damn Goldust doesn't have much appeal left in him. It would be nice if pro wrestling felt like a youth movement again instead of having to rely on old stars to get numbers up.


I feel like back in the day the older guys were used better. The Road Warriors for example were still running around in the late 90's but they were mainly putting guys over, involved in midcard feuds and driving business despite last being super popular in the late 80's and early 90's

Today if you had a super popular team from a decade ago they'd be a big deal in both AEW and WWE.


----------



## Prosper

No way I’m reading this whole thread but damn 20 pages for fat shaming NBA fans. Wrestling fans shit on Jericho’s physique all the time but we’re giving all this attention to NBA fans who aren’t interested in getting back into fake fighting in the first place? Come on people.

I’ll add this though:

1.) Wrestling is not mainstream and nothing you put in the first segment is going to attract new fans in a sport where new fans are not suddenly being made outside of the young. You could have started with Cody. Could have started with Sting. Could have started with Moxley. It wouldn’t have mattered those people are not coming back next week they’re gonna watch the next NBA or NFL game instead no matter how good the show is. Are you people gonna suddenly start watching the Disney Channel every week at the same time after not watching it for 20 years? Of course not. It’s not your style and it’s not the content you’re actively looking for. 

2.) The fact that these people are saying “Jericho is still wrestling?” Means they are older and not interested in getting back into wrestling. It’s obvious by the underlying tone of these tweets. Fat or not no actual person who is a wrestling fan interested in the sport is gonna see Jericho and say “fuck this”. He did nothing offensive or comical in that match. They would appreciate him, not drag his name in the mud because he decided to eat and drink more during quarantine, much like they have done.

3.) Lesnar got destroyed for going to WWE after MMA and the audience didn’t grow from his presence nor did new mainstream fans suddenly start to love wrestling. Rousey got labeled as running away to fake sports
and got ripped heavy. Hogan was ripped for still wrestling in TNA. AEW shouldn’t be singled out as some kind of place that should be immune to negativity on social media.

4.) Of course they think it’s WWE, AEW is one year old and WWE is all they know. How is this a talking point? You people are more intelligent than this especially you @Chip Chipperson

5.) Every promotion has been and will be looked at by the mainstream in the same way. Wrestling is fake and all wrestling is bad scripting. Taker coming back from the dead is bad scripting. Austin killing 30 people in the alliance is bad scripting. Wrestling itself is bad scripting. It’s always been.

6.) Are some of you people really criticizing AEW for not going mainstream in a time where WWE is barely there? If so, then get a grip and smarten up.

Yes Jericho needs to get in better shape. No one is denying that. But I don’t really think this is thread worthy amongst hardcores who are smarter than playing into these meme comments.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Would you accept Cody strictly becoming a midcard guy?


Like as a legit midcard guy who works to keep the shows entertaining between the main story, which is absolutely featured and getting more air time?

He’d be nearly perfect for that spot. The bad part is that he believes he should be a main attraction, which requires just so much airtime and smoke and mirrors for him to be entertaining.


----------



## KingofKings1524

Jericho deserves every bit of the criticism he’s getting.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> Like as a legit midcard guy who works to keep the shows entertaining between the main story, which is absolutely featured and getting more air time?
> 
> He’d be nearly perfect for that spot. The bad part is that he believes he should be a main attraction, which requires just so much airtime and smoke and mirrors for him to be entertaining.


If Omega was pushed like Cody would you be cool with it?


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> If Omega was pushed like Cody would you be cool with it?


If Omega, Page, MJF, Moxley, maybe even Pac, were pushed like Cody, it would be understandable as they are simply more captivating, main attraction level talents.

Cody just isn’t that guy. If you have to go to the extent he has, featuring himself so heavily with more air time than anyone else not named Chris Jericho, and you still haven’t put a distance between yourself and those talents, then you probably don’t belong in that spot.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> No way I’m reading this whole thread but damn 20 pages for fat shaming NBA fans. Wrestling fans shit on Jericho’s physique all the time but we’re giving all this attention to NBA fans who aren’t interested in getting back into fake fighting in the first place? Come on people.
> 
> I’ll add this though:
> 
> 1.) Wrestling is not mainstream and nothing you put in the first segment is going to attract new fans in a sport where new fans are not suddenly being made outside of the young. You could have started with Cody. Could have started with Sting. Could have started with Moxley. It wouldn’t have mattered those people are not coming back next week they’re gonna watch the next NBA or NFL game instead no matter how good the show is. Are you people gonna suddenly start watching the Disney Channel every week at the same time after not watching it for 20 years? Of course not. It’s not your style and it’s not the content you’re actively looking for.
> 
> 2.) The fact that these people are saying “Jericho is still wrestling?” Means they are older and not interested in getting back into wrestling. It’s obvious by the underlying tone of these tweets. Fat or not no actual person who is a wrestling fan interested in the sport is gonna see Jericho and say “fuck this”. He did nothing offensive or comical in that match. They would appreciate him, not drag his name in the mud because he decided to eat and drink more during quarantine, much like they have done.
> 
> 3.) Lesnar got destroyed for going to WWE after MMA and the audience didn’t grow from his presence nor did new mainstream fans suddenly start to love wrestling. Rousey got labeled as running away to fake sports
> and got ripped heavy. Hogan was ripped for still wrestling in TNA. AEW shouldn’t be singled out as some kind of place that should be immune to negativity on social media.
> 
> 4.) Of course they think it’s WWE, AEW is one year old and WWE is all they know. How is this a talking point? You people are more intelligent than this especially you @Chip Chipperson
> 
> 5.) Every promotion has been and will be looked at by the mainstream in the same way. Wrestling is fake and all wrestling is bad scripting. Taker coming back from the dead is bad scripting. Austin killing 30 people in the alliance is bad scripting. Wrestling itself is bad scripting. It’s always been.
> 
> 6.) Are some of you people really criticizing AEW for not going mainstream in a time where WWE is barely there? If so, then get a grip and smarten up.
> 
> Yes Jericho needs to get in better shape. No one is denying that. But I don’t really think this is thread worthy amongst hardcores who are smarter than playing into these meme comments.


1. Disagree entirely, when I studied media my instructors would always say that the first 20 seconds is where you absolutely need to hook someone. Whether that's a big name, something interesting, something funny etc. That's why many TV shows kick off with "What happened last week" and it's a minute or two of the biggest thing that happened in that past week.

With wrestling and a two hour show I know for a fact they stick with it a bit longer (About 90-120 seconds according to my YouTube analytics) but it's still not a long time which is why you need an immediate hook, 30 second intro and straight to the announcers hyping tonight's show (60 seconds) and then into a big star right off the bat (Interview, match, backstage segment etc) would be enough I think

Your Disney analogy doesn't work here, these people recognise Jericho so clearly were wrestling fans at some point. It'd be more like the NBA trying to get fans back who have stopped watching the NBA in the past 10 years which heaps of sporting franchises do regularly.

2. If they weren't interested in giving wrestling a try they wouldn't have even stuck around. They are asking why Jericho is still around because he's been on TV for 23 years at this point which is a shit load of time. Jericho didn't really give them an answer of "Because I'm still great even if I am older" instead it came across exactly as how it is which is a rival promotion signing Jericho and putting him on TV because he's famous from his time in WWE.

3. We don't know that, I do recall plenty of MMA fans being interested in Brock's return to MMA and WWE getting tons of mainstream press out of it. Rousey got tons of mainstream press for them also, I remember the national news here in Australia reporting on Rousey signing to WWE in their sports report. AEW would kill for a mention on the national Australian news let alone a story.

4. It proves my long standing point that AEW should be trying to look, sound and act different to WWE. If they tuned in and the venue was darker, two wrestlers were in the ring that were exciting and flashy without coming across as lame, they had a young vibrant announce team and the only stars from WWE were guys who still deserved to be stars on TV in 2020 they perhaps would've thought differently. Instead it all came across as WWE lite to them because that's exactly what it is...

5. No it hasn't always been that way, there were decades where people thought wrestling was a shoot or were unsure about it all. There are still millions of people that would go back and watch wresting if it didn't insult their intelligence every week. Remember the study, people tuned out because the characters were boring and because wrestling became stupid and did silly things. Nobody tuned out because "wrestling is fake" (Incredibly disrespectful to say especially since you're a fan, by the way)

6. We're criticising them for not being able to attract the mainstream when they had an opportunity to. They didn't care, they put shit out there and didn't even try to hook anyone.


----------



## The Wood

prosperwithdeen said:


> No way I’m reading this whole thread but damn 20 pages for fat shaming NBA fans. Wrestling fans shit on Jericho’s physique all the time but we’re giving all this attention to NBA fans who aren’t interested in getting back into fake fighting in the first place? Come on people.
> 
> I’ll add this though:
> 
> 1.) Wrestling is not mainstream and nothing you put in the first segment is going to attract new fans in a sport where new fans are not suddenly being made outside of the young. You could have started with Cody. Could have started with Sting. Could have started with Moxley. It wouldn’t have mattered those people are not coming back next week they’re gonna watch the next NBA or NFL game instead no matter how good the show is. Are you people gonna suddenly start watching the Disney Channel every week at the same time after not watching it for 20 years? Of course not. It’s not your style and it’s not the content you’re actively looking for.
> 
> 2.) The fact that these people are saying “Jericho is still wrestling?” Means they are older and not interested in getting back into wrestling. It’s obvious by the underlying tone of these tweets. Fat or not no actual person who is a wrestling fan interested in the sport is gonna see Jericho and say “fuck this”. He did nothing offensive or comical in that match. They would appreciate him, not drag his name in the mud because he decided to eat and drink more during quarantine, much like they have done.
> 
> 3.) Lesnar got destroyed for going to WWE after MMA and the audience didn’t grow from his presence nor did new mainstream fans suddenly start to love wrestling. Rousey got labeled as running away to fake sports
> and got ripped heavy. Hogan was ripped for still wrestling in TNA. AEW shouldn’t be singled out as some kind of place that should be immune to negativity on social media.
> 
> 4.) Of course they think it’s WWE, AEW is one year old and WWE is all they know. How is this a talking point? You people are more intelligent than this especially you @Chip Chipperson
> 
> 5.) Every promotion has been and will be looked at by the mainstream in the same way. Wrestling is fake and all wrestling is bad scripting. Taker coming back from the dead is bad scripting. Austin killing 30 people in the alliance is bad scripting. Wrestling itself is bad scripting. It’s always been.
> 
> 6.) Are some of you people really criticizing AEW for not going mainstream in a time where WWE is barely there? If so, then get a grip and smarten up.
> 
> Yes Jericho needs to get in better shape. No one is denying that. But I don’t really think this is thread worthy amongst hardcores who are smarter than playing into these meme comments.


This isn’t fat-shaming. This isn’t punching down or picking on a regular citizen with an eating disorder. This is a world class athlete and performer who has lost control. It might be sad and morbid, but Jericho is a target for satire. NBA fans coming in are a great sample of the type of audience AEW could realistically hope to ensnare to help them grow. Jericho flopping hard IS a story, no matter how badly you want to dismiss it.

1. This defeatist attitude is exactly why I consider AEW apologists to be the ones that don’t want the best for AEW, and why I think they secretly hate wrestling. Why can’t good wrestling make new fans? It’s absurd to suggest otherwise.

2. They were interested and they did check it out. They were offended and it was silly. That’s the whole “on the surface of it” point. You’re arguing from the conclusion you want. I know it’s hard to admit that the “haters” have the evidence, but it’s offensive and silly when you just dismiss eye-witness testimony because you don’t like the narrative.

3. WWE cultivates a lot of their own criticism, true. That doesn’t mean AEW gets away from it either. Brock Lesnar and Ronda Rousey’s runs have no doubt been effective. Brock and Ronda have definitely helped in their own way.

4. Branding? Through the visuals of the show and the announcing? This isn’t hard. It got compared to WWE because its presentation isn’t unique or distinct enough.

5. Bad wrestling is viewed as bad wrestling. Good wrestling engages people. Sometimes without them even knowing.

6. WWE being “cold” is why AEW exists in the first place. To fill a market gap.

You could have just said that Jericho needs to get into better shape and be done with it.


----------



## The Wood

TrollKiller said:


> just imagine something your instructor didnt teach you working. or even crazier. imagine there being more then one way to do things


There are quite a few ways to prepare certain dishes. Some ways are just flat-out inedible though. There is actually a right and a wrong way to do things. An effective and ineffective way.

A lot of wrestling fans think wrestling is this subjective art you just go out there and do, and your intention to create is how you measure the response. No. It doesn’t work like that. It’s about eliciting an emotion. That means you have to be able to draw that emotion out of people. You have to either put it there or find it in someone.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TrollKiller said:


> just imagine something your instructor didnt teach you working. or even crazier. imagine there being more then one way to do things


Admittedly being different can at times work but I can't think of a better way to hook someone than having a big star, a cool hype video and a 60 second run down of what to stick around for.

Obviously AEW's method of just throwing guys out there for an immediate match isn't really working.


----------



## alex0816

theres a smackdown promo every 30 seconds of every nfl game on fox every week, you think wwe is getting a fraction of that audience?

the nba isn't close in term of popularity to the nfl. so this "mainstream aundience" factor to get more fans is overblown. 

who cares what nba fans say when they have no interest in wrestling to begin with? you could start it off with a match, a recap, stone cold steve austin, or a bra and panties match, none of those people were gonna watch


----------



## Chip Chipperson

alex0816 said:


> who cares what nba fans say when they have no interest in wrestling to begin with? you could start it off with a match, a recap, stone cold steve austin, or a bra and panties match, none of those people were gonna watch


Again, they are people who used to like wrestling. Odds are if they saw something they used to like on or even something new and appealing they might have been interested.


----------



## The Wood

TrollKiller said:


> right and wrong is opinion based mostly


It’s my opinion that people shouldn’t stick forks in electric sockets. If you want to have an opinion to the contrary, that’s on you. 



alex0816 said:


> theres a smackdown promo every 30 seconds of every nfl game on fox every week, you think wwe is getting a fraction of that audience?
> 
> the nba isn't close in term of popularity to the nfl. so this "mainstream aundience" factor to get more fans is overblown.
> 
> who cares what nba fans say when they have no interest in wrestling to begin with? you could start it off with a match, a recap, stone cold steve austin, or a bra and panties match, none of those people were gonna watch


These people used to watch wrestling, were interested in checking it out and DID check it out. These aren’t people who are allergic to the shit. Their opinions were not calibrated to internet lore. It turns out seeing an old, fat Chris Jericho just isn’t how you’re going to get people hooked going into 2020.

This defeatist attitude is one of my biggest pet peeves. This idea that wrestling has to suck and be looked down on. That no one new is going to watch.

People try and they don’t like it. Make it better. It’s that simple.


----------



## CM Buck

Two Sheds said:


> Whoa now, you can call me just about any name you like, but accusing me of having (or as an IT person there actually existing) thousands of gigabytes of Young Bucks matches is quite insulting. I would hope that such a large number of that kind of video existing would not be possible, let alone someone taking up valuable space by having it purposefully.
> 
> We also all know that having the best selling shirt of the year from a site that boasts that ("probably" according to the owner's own words) 150,000 shirts being sold over seven years as their #1 seller of all time is somehow a lot. I would not be surprised to learn that Steve Austin still sells more shirts TODAY than OC based on this information. Has anyone on here actually encountered a human being they did not know walking around in an OC shirt in the past year? I know I have not. Now compare that to seeing people in Austin and Rock gear in the AE randomly on the street. As far as what is in my shed (I have only one, I have only discussed getting a second), and what is on my secret hard drives, it is mainly material your mom has sent me. Only the top quality for me.
> 
> I take your larger point about the most vocal anti-gay conservative politicians (Larry Craig, a hilarious amount of the televangelists) turning out to be completely into airport bathroom stuff with other dudes though. That does seem to be a thing. But that kind of a belief is based on ignorance of science (that same sex attraction is somehow a choice and not biology based) and a self hatred created by being brainwashed by nonsensical bronze age beliefs as children. Not liking most of what the Bucks do is more akin to having a problem if someone gets into the NBA and starts kicking the ball to pass it or as Cornette would say "as phony as a football bat." That kind of thing makes what you are doing no longer basketball. Calling that out does not translate to me secretly having been kicking basketballs in my shed for years. If anything, saying I loved Bucks matches would be EASIER than saying they suck. It would be the easy, lazy position to take. One would not have to do any work to say that. That is why SJW stuff is so insanely popular today. At the base of it, one does not need to know, and indeed if you look at the base philosophy of it one CANNOT know anything (there is no objective truth) so the less you know about reality the more qualified you are to be good at it. Just like stuff like the Bucks. The less you know about wrestling, the more likely you are to enjoy what they do.


Very much worth the hilarious rant thank you sir


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Sasha Banks is literally in Star Wars.
> 
> 
> I think it's funny how people here act like it's just 5 random people on Twitter, yet it made wrestling news sites because it was actually thousands.*


She is in Star Wars in which I liked since she did decent in her role. Also Becky Lynch was on Billionairs and that production team said she came come back if she wants to. Also was in Marvel projects before the pandemic ends. Wrestlers can be mainstream. It depends who gets noticed first. Both members of the 4HW proved it can happen.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> If Omega, Page, MJF, Moxley, maybe even Pac, were pushed like Cody, it would be understandable as they are simply more captivating, main attraction level talents.
> 
> Cody just isn’t that guy. If you have to go to the extent he has, featuring himself so heavily with more air time than anyone else not named Chris Jericho, and you still haven’t put a distance between yourself and those talents, then you probably don’t belong in that spot.


Lol see what you did there though? You don't have a problem with the booking style and the heavy exposure, you just don't like that it's Cody in that spot and not someone you would prefer. Which is fine we all have our favorites. I'd probably put Omega in that spot too if I'm being honest. Before it seemed like you were completely against booking styles that had HHH vibes attached to them. But Cody has a lot of fans and is on the same level as the guys you had mentioned or at least close to it. A lot of people including myself find Cody to be captivating and main event level. The guy can wrestle, he's great on the mic, has awesome charisma, and a nice presence to him. He dresses like a star, is very marketable, has a beautiful wife, a faction, etc.

Not putting a distance between himself and the talent you mentioned is more of a good thing than a bad thing. If he is to create a real distance then he would win a lot more than he does now, meaning that Darby Allin for example wouldn't have won at Full Gear, which results in more hate towards Cody. But with all of his exposure, the other guys still feel like they are on his level, which is awesome. The opposite would be a Roman Reigns situation where he's the top dog and everyone else is a peasant. I hate that because now Roman has no opponents. Cody does. The guys you listed make 2-3 years worth of high-level feuds right there.



Chip Chipperson said:


> 1. Disagree entirely, when I studied media my instructors would always say that the first 20 seconds is where you absolutely need to hook someone. Whether that's a big name, something interesting, something funny etc. That's why many TV shows kick off with "What happened last week" and it's a minute or two of the biggest thing that happened in that past week.
> 
> With wrestling and a two hour show I know for a fact they stick with it a bit longer (About 90-120 seconds according to my YouTube analytics) but it's still not a long time which is why you need an immediate hook, 30 second intro and straight to the announcers hyping tonight's show (60 seconds) and then into a big star right off the bat (Interview, match, backstage segment etc) would be enough I think
> 
> Your Disney analogy doesn't work here, these people recognise Jericho so clearly were wrestling fans at some point. It'd be more like the NBA trying to get fans back who have stopped watching the NBA in the past 10 years which heaps of sporting franchises do regularly.
> 
> 2. If they weren't interested in giving wrestling a try they wouldn't have even stuck around. They are asking why Jericho is still around because he's been on TV for 23 years at this point which is a shit load of time. Jericho didn't really give them an answer of "Because I'm still great even if I am older" instead it came across exactly as how it is which is a rival promotion signing Jericho and putting him on TV because he's famous from his time in WWE.
> 
> 3. We don't know that, I do recall plenty of MMA fans being interested in Brock's return to MMA and WWE getting tons of mainstream press out of it. Rousey got tons of mainstream press for them also, I remember the national news here in Australia reporting on Rousey signing to WWE in their sports report. AEW would kill for a mention on the national Australian news let alone a story.
> 
> 4. It proves my long standing point that AEW should be trying to look, sound and act different to WWE. If they tuned in and the venue was darker, two wrestlers were in the ring that were exciting and flashy without coming across as lame, they had a young vibrant announce team and the only stars from WWE were guys who still deserved to be stars on TV in 2020 they perhaps would've thought differently. Instead it all came across as WWE lite to them because that's exactly what it is...
> 
> 5. No it hasn't always been that way, there were decades where people thought wrestling was a shoot or were unsure about it all. There are still millions of people that would go back and watch wresting if it didn't insult their intelligence every week. Remember the study, people tuned out because the characters were boring and because wrestling became stupid and did silly things. Nobody tuned out because "wrestling is fake" (Incredibly disrespectful to say especially since you're a fan, by the way)
> 
> 6. We're criticising them for not being able to attract the mainstream when they had an opportunity to. They didn't care, they put shit out there and didn't even try to hook anyone.


1.) I see what you're getting at but they have to be interested in really investing themselves back into the genre of wrestling on a week to week basis in the first place, which I don't think they are. The tweets you posted show no point of entry. They only show sarcasm and superiority to the entire idea of wrestling. They have received impressions continuously from WWE for the past 20 years. So whenever they think about wrestling, they will think WWE and that's not a good thing for lapsed fans who look at AEW and think about whether to watch or not the following week. If they had any passion for wrestling, then it's dead now. Especially after the John Cena era which was the absolute worst. Only hardcores who are actively looking for it, much like the fans on this forum, are the ones who will stay week after week. If they had opened up with the return of Moxley and they had this super badass Omega segment, followed up with a Sting appearance, then if they had gone on to book a full year of perfect TV, you actually think AEW would attract and keep mainstream people? Extremely doubtful. Some would stay but they won't come in droves. The argument could actually be made that Jericho, a legend, was the best choice in who they should have started the show with. It's unfortunate that his physique is all people cared about though. Yeah, they were wrestling fans at one point, but these people have outgrown the sport and they have moved on to investing themselves into the deep amount of content that we now have available on demand.

2.) This is why I can't understand why we are looking at this as such a negative in the first place. Of course AEW is going to sign the big names that they can sign. Whether they are from WWE, TNA, NJPW, etc. But these folk don't understand that talent jump ship to different companies from time to time so they think they are watching WWE, the only promotion they know. And those that realize that it's not WWE will say what you posted about it looking like a "knockoff". WWE also looked like a "knock off" of TNA when they signed AJ Styles and Samoa Joe. They looked like a knockoff of the indies when you had guys like CM Punk and Daniel Bryan coming through. TNA looked like a WWE knockoff for the most obvious of reasons. We hardcores understand the difference, NBA fans don't.

3.) We are talking about the mainstream audience sticking around though, aren't we? You don't remember all the hate that Rousey got for joining WWE? She lost her first fight in MMA and went ghost for a while, then showed up on WWE TV. Her detractors then go on to say that she can't hang in MMA and that she had to go the fake route, but the reality was that it was always her dream to wrestle. None of that mainstream press mattered because Rousey and Lesnar, the 2 biggest signings they have had in a while, didn't result in increased cable viewership. It instead went way down. Now we don't know how much the audience actually grew though given that most of those people are streaming anyway, which is the same that can be said about AEW.

4.) The term wrestling is synonymous with WWE. 35 years worth. They can do everything you suggested and a mainstream individual tuning in would easily still think it's WWE if it's live content. If AEW is "WWE Lite", then TNA certainly was. So these people have been thinking this for 20 years now in regards to any non-WWE promotion they come across. The only thing that can truly set it apart at a fundamental level is going the cinematic route like Lucha Underground, but I don't think there are many that want that. Live is always better.

5.) Yeah but then kayfabe was shattered and people smartened up. There's no way we can go backwards. They grew up and realized that their intelligence has been insulted the whole time. It's only the hardcores who are still into the intelligence-insulting tropes of wrestling. Wrestling has always been doing silly things. That's why it's always been considered sports entertainment and not this sports-based 100% serious product that people are hoping and wishing for. The Attitude Era, which is widely regarded as the most popular of all time, clearly did more stupid things than AEW does now. I don't mean any disrespect to fans of wrestling when I say it's fake, but sometimes you have to be blunt with debates such as this one.

6.) Starting off with something other than IC vs Top Flight would have been better I agree, but as I said earlier, I genuinely do not believe it would have mattered. These people would have carried on with their week then come next Wednesday they would have been surfing the channels looking for live sports or a cool Netflix series to watch with their significant other.


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol see what you did there though? You don't have a problem with the booking style and the heavy exposure, you just don't like that it's Cody in that spot and not someone you would prefer. Which is fine we all have our favorites. I'd probably put Omega in that spot too if I'm being honest. Before it seemed like you were completely against booking styles that had HHH vibes attached to them. But Cody has a lot of fans and is on the same level as the guys you had mentioned or at least close to it. A lot of people including myself find Cody to be captivating and main event level. The guy can wrestle, he's great on the mic, has awesome charisma, and a nice presence to him. He dresses like a star, is very marketable, has a beautiful wife, a faction, etc.
> 
> Not putting a distance between himself and the talent you mentioned is more of a good thing than a bad thing. If he is to create a real distance then he would win a lot more than he does now, meaning that Darby Allin for example wouldn't have won at Full Gear, which results in more hate towards Cody. But with all of his exposure, the other guys still feel like they are on his level, which is awesome. The opposite would be a Roman Reigns situation where he's the top dog and everyone else is a peasant. I hate that because now Roman has no opponents. Cody does. The guys you listed make 2-3 years worth of high-level feuds right there.


Stars should be booked like stars. If you’re booked and featured this goddamn much, I want your ass drawing ratings. I hate Hogan, but Nitro was fucking watched by MILLIONS. Cody being featured more and more prominently during the first COVID shows and during his TNT Title reign lead to a massive drop in ratings and the shows being shit. When he went off TV, the shows became more compelling and saw a fucking uptick in ratings. He came back, and they dropped.

There is a direct correlation between how heavily featured Cody is and what the ratings will do.


----------



## bdon

And the reason Cody gets the HHH treatment from me is that without the book, he is not a star. He books himself, and himself ONLY, this way. Moxley was the goddamn world heavyweight champion and got 2 minute promos. Kenny is out here attempting to conquer the wrestling world, and he doesn’t get featured that heavily.

That’s the issue. If Cody can write himself into THAT much goddamn TV, then he can find more meaningful shit for Darby Allin, Page, Pac, Jungle Boy, Moxley, etc to do.


----------



## RainmakerV2

So WWE had a HUGE NFL lead in last night. Over 4 mil. How did twitter react to KOs fatness?


----------



## hardcorewrasslin

Chip Chipperson said:


> Don't shy away from this question. Be brave.
> 
> How has my promotion "failed"?
> 
> Actively ran shows in 2020
> 
> Has made small profits on my tax return every single year it's ran.
> 
> Scheduled for six events already for 2021 including four paid events
> 
> What's failing about it? Don't be like Dammitchrist and claim that anything except the top ten promotions in the world is a failure


And yet I’ve never heard of it...


----------



## hardcorewrasslin

Firefromthegods said:


> Do you want a week off? Stop with the personal attacks and grow up
> 
> @alex0816 this is a criticism thread about Jericho’s appearance not being a good representation of aew. Jericho deserves to be called out for letting himself go.


Jericho is a 50 year old man, and despite the fluff he is still in decent shape for somebody his age who doesn’t juice. Not to mention he can still wrestle and do the same moves he’s done since 2000. 

I think you need to grow up and stop body shaming people on the internet my dude.


----------



## hardcorewrasslin

Edit: double post


----------



## hardcorewrasslin

Edit: double post


----------



## alex0816

Chip Chipperson said:


> Again, they are people who used to like wrestling. Odds are if they saw something they used to like on or even something new and appealing they might have been interested.





The Wood said:


> It’s my opinion that people shouldn’t stick forks in electric sockets. If you want to have an opinion to the contrary, that’s on you.
> 
> 
> 
> These people used to watch wrestling, were interested in checking it out and DID check it out. These aren’t people who are allergic to the shit. Their opinions were not calibrated to internet lore. It turns out seeing an old, fat Chris Jericho just isn’t how you’re going to get people hooked going into 2020.
> 
> This defeatist attitude is one of my biggest pet peeves. This idea that wrestling has to suck and be looked down on. That no one new is going to watch.
> 
> People try and they don’t like it. Make it better. It’s that simple.


it was 5 people on twitter who haven't watched wrestling in a decade. AEW came on literally 2 seconds after the nba game. they had no interest in watching wrestling no matter who was on since, like they said themselves, they haven't watched in over a decade, i doubt anyone new in 2020 would make someone who hasn't watched wrestling in years is just gonna become insanely interested again. they stopped watching in 2009 when CM Punk, Batista, Jericho, Undertaker, HHH, Orton, Cena, the Hardys, Mysterio, were on every week. they stopped liling wrestling a long time ago


----------



## DJ Punk

400 posts just to talk about how Jericho looks out of shape at 50. How can any of you honestly say that this section isn't an Anti-AEW fanclub in disguise?


----------



## hardcorewrasslin

RainmakerV2 said:


> So WWE had a HUGE NFL lead in last night. Over 4 mil. How did twitter react to KOs fatness?


Perhaps Chip can provide us with these details since apparently that’s what he does, lol!


----------



## alex0816

DJ Punk said:


> 400 posts just to talk about how Jericho looks out of shape at 50. How can any of you honestly say that this section isn't an Anti-AEW fanclub in disguise?


cause aparently not capitalizing on 5 people who haven't watched wrestling in over a decade means AEW will never be good and can't ever have good ratings.....cause of 5 people


----------



## RainmakerV2

hardcorewrasslin said:


> Perhaps Chip can provide us with these details since apparently that’s what he does, lol!


I dont think there was any, that was my point.


----------



## hardcorewrasslin

RainmakerV2 said:


> I dont think there was any, that was my point.


Hmm... I wonder why, haha!


----------



## RainmakerV2

alex0816 said:


> cause aparently not capitalizing on 5 people who haven't watched wrestling in over a decade means AEW will never be good and can't ever have good ratings.....cause of 5 people


They had Sting, Shaq, a title change with another company crossover and still didnt hit a million. Now they're back under 800k. They have no idea how to capitalize on any momentum and are trying to "long term" book like Gedo does in NJPW. Problem is, this is America, where you have 400 channels at your disposal and half the country probably has ADD. Shit doesnt work. Its not like they cant have "good ratings." Its that they (or Tony Khan in particular) doesnt know how.


----------



## DJ Punk

alex0816 said:


> cause aparently not capitalizing on 5 people who haven't watched wrestling in over a decade means AEW will never be good and can't ever have good ratings.....cause of 5 people


This thread has more posts than the thread about Omega gunning for the other promotions titles which is arguably the biggest angle in all of wrestling right now. Wtf WF...


----------



## midgetlover69

Diehards trying to downplay anyone who criticizes them

"These arent even real people" "Just nba fans" "J-just 5 of them man!"

How pathetic haha


----------



## K4L318

RainmakerV2 said:


> So WWE had a HUGE NFL lead in last night. Over 4 mil. How did twitter react to KOs fatness?


top trend last night for WWE was?


----------



## RainmakerV2

DJ Punk said:


> This thread has more posts than the thread about Omega gunning for the other promotions titles which is arguably the biggest angle in all of wrestling right now. Wtf WF...


The biggest angle in all of wrestling? Lmao. I guess those 4 million that watched Roman last night dont count. You guys are really stuck in this bubble where you think Rich Swann vs. Kenny Omega in a double title match is gonna change the business or something. Its funny as shit.


----------



## hardcorewrasslin

midgetlover69 said:


> Diehards trying to downplay anyone who criticizes them
> 
> "These arent even real people" "Just nba fans" "J-just 5 of them man!"
> 
> How pathetic haha


So by your logic, if I go on Twitter and post about how stupid the NBA is then the NBA is automatically deemed a failure and anybody who’s says otherwise is just a diehard? Looool!


----------



## K4L318

RainmakerV2 said:


> The biggest angle in all of wrestling? Lmao. *I guess those 4 million that watched Roman last night dont count*. You guys are really stuck in this bubble where you think Rich Swann vs. Kenny Omega in a double title match is gonna change the business or something. Its funny as shit.


they there next week? put your account on it


----------



## RainmakerV2

K4L318 said:


> they there next week? put your account on it


Are the 990K that watched Omega win the belt still there? When will they hit that again? Put your account on it.


----------



## midgetlover69

hardcorewrasslin said:


> So by your logic, if I go on Twitter and post about how stupid the NBA is then the NBA is automatically deemed a failure and anybody who’s says otherwise is just a diehard? Looool!


actually no because that would be you doing it out of spite since you are mad af they roasted the shit out of aew


----------



## DJ Punk

RainmakerV2 said:


> The biggest angle in all of wrestling? Lmao. I guess those 4 million that watched Roman last night dont count. You guys are really stuck in this bubble where you think Rich Swann vs. Kenny Omega in a double title match is gonna change the business or something. Its funny as shit.


Omega implied he'll be going for more titles than just TNA's alone. Do you even watch? And it's something different as opposed to Roman just basically being Brock Lesnar 2.0


----------



## K4L318

RainmakerV2 said:


> Are the 990K that watched Omega win the belt still there? When will they hit that again? Put your account on it.


They average a million a week on cable.

Dem 4M who watched Rocky's cuzo against Owens arent staying and dropped off more than 50% by end of hour 1. So nah.


----------



## RainmakerV2

K4L318 said:


> They average a million a week on cable.
> 
> Dem 4M who watched Rocky's cuzo against Owens arent dropped off more than 50% by end of hour 1. So nah.


Who averages a million a week? Do what?


----------



## hardcorewrasslin

midgetlover69 said:


> actually no because that would be you doing it out of spite since you are mad af they roasted the shit out of aew



But I genuinely don’t like basketball, I think it’s boring and tedious I’m also pretty sure there are many people out there who think so too. Are our opinions not valid? 

Hmmm...


----------



## alex0816

RainmakerV2 said:


> They had Sting, Shaq, a title change with another company crossover and still didnt hit a million. Now they're back under 800k. They have no idea how to capitalize on any momentum and are trying to "long term" book like Gedo does in NJPW. Problem is, this is America, where you have 400 channels at your disposal and half the country probably has ADD. Shit doesnt work. Its not like they cant have "good ratings." Its that they (or Tony Khan in particular) doesnt know how.


ok and? 

wrestling isn't popular anymore. rating have gone up and down since they started and they do the same for wwe as well.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DJ Punk said:


> Omega implied he'll be going for more titles than just TNA's alone. Do you even watch? And it's something different as opposed to Roman just basically being Brock Lesnar 2.0



Oh man, winning the NWA and ROH titles are gonna bring in a new attitude era. God damn, Vince has to be losing sleep at night over this shit. I bet hes got fuckin voodoo dolls of Callis and Omega just praying he can stab them away LMAO.


----------



## K4L318

RainmakerV2 said:


> Who averages a million a week? Do what?


AEW does. They own numbahs guy said it.


----------



## alex0816

midgetlover69 said:


> Diehards trying to downplay anyone who criticizes them
> 
> "These arent even real people" "Just nba fans" "J-just 5 of them man!"
> 
> How pathetic haha


and people like you trying to spin it as AEW is just the absolute worst thing on TV in the history of television


----------



## K4L318

alex0816 said:


> and people like you trying to spin it as AEW is just the absolute worst thing on TV in the history of television


bruh this da same shit peeps said about WCW only it was in school.


----------



## midgetlover69

hardcorewrasslin said:


> But I genuinely don’t like basketball, I think it’s boring and tedious I’m also pretty sure there are many people out there who think so too. Are our opinions not valid?
> 
> Hmmm...


you just convinced a grand total of no one


----------



## RainmakerV2

K4L318 said:


> AEW does. They own numbahs guy said it.


Dude, if you're gonna speak in gibberish just to do it, then I mean, whatever lol. I guess since " theys own numbahs guy" ( the fuck is that?) Said it, its obviously true.


----------



## midgetlover69

alex0816 said:


> and people like you trying to spin it as AEW is just the absolute worst thing on TV in the history of television


not necessarily the worst but theres a lot of trash on tv. Thats not really great company


----------



## Dupe1114

Hahaha, TY for posting. I can only IMAGINE if many of the backyard looking, unprofessional child like looking " talents" like DORK ORDER, STUNT, JELLY, or some of the other unprofessional looking wrestlers would have been seen by casual viewers/NBA cross over Audience.
It's a helluva difference from when that Crossover Audience would look on NITRO and see athletes. Professional looking athletes. Athletes that wouldn't make professional wrestling look like a joke at first glance.
Wether you want to HONESTLY admit it, YOU GET ONE CHANCE TO MAKE A FIRST, PROFESSIONAL IMPRESSION. YOU HAVE TO MAKE NEW FANS....


----------



## hardcorewrasslin

midgetlover69 said:


> you just convinced a grand total of no one


Diehards trying to downplay anyone who criticizes them

“You’re doing this out of spite” "you just convinced a grand total of no one"

How pathetic haha


----------



## K4L318

RainmakerV2 said:


> Dude, if you're gonna speak in gibberish just to do it, then I mean, whatever lol. I guess since " theys own numbahs guy" ( the fuck is that?) Said it, its obviously true.


I call dem numbahs guy.


----------



## midgetlover69

hardcorewrasslin said:


> Diehards trying to downplay anyone who criticizes them
> 
> “You’re doing this out of spite” "you just convinced a grand total of no one"
> 
> How pathetic haha





midgetlover69 said:


> actually no because that would be you doing it out of spite since you are mad af they roasted the shit out of aew


----------



## K4L318

midgetlover69 said:


> you just convinced a grand total of no one


ya can criticize but make sense. How ya think NFL lead in aint racking in network $$$$


----------



## hardcorewrasslin




----------



## midgetlover69

K4L318 said:


> ya can criticize but make sense. How ya think NFL lead in aint racking in network $$$$


I dont watch wwe its ass too


----------



## K4L318

midgetlover69 said:


> I dont watch wwe its ass too


dat aint what I was saying.


----------



## alex0816

people getting boners for anything negative about AEW. yall weird man


----------



## DJ Punk

RainmakerV2 said:


> Oh man, winning the NWA and ROH titles are gonna bring in a new attitude era. God damn, Vince has to be losing sleep at night over this shit. I bet hes got fuckin voodoo dolls of Callis and Omega just praying he can stab them away LMAO.


Wtf are you even on? When did I say any of that?


----------



## bdon

I can’t imagine thinking the best anything is what the masses choose.

Lemmings everywhere, man.


----------



## Ozell Gray

SmackDown just got over 3 million viewers and didn’t get clowned by any of the NFL fans so for any AEW fans saying AEW is “less embarrassing “ than WWE clearly the masses and other sports fans disagrees with wholeheartedly. How come none of the NFL fans clowned SmackDown like the NBA fans clowned Dynamite? Because SmackDown actually put on a better a show to keep them interested while Dynamite did none of that.


----------



## Ger

New to this said:


> Lol... if any of the WWE blowboys believe that the same wouldn’t be said about that product, then it just shows their ignorance.Modern wrestling is trash. Get over it.


Thx u for enlighten us.  FYI: people here know that since years, while you found out 40 mins ago and created an account here to tell us. If you just found out in 2020 over chrismas, maybe you are not the most qualified person for advices.


----------



## RapShepard

alex0816 said:


> it was 5 people on twitter who haven't watched wrestling in a decade. AEW came on literally 2 seconds after the nba game. they had no interest in watching wrestling no matter who was on since, like they said themselves, they haven't watched in over a decade, i doubt anyone new in 2020 would make someone who hasn't watched wrestling in years is just gonna become insanely interested again. they stopped watching in 2009 when CM Punk, Batista, Jericho, Undertaker, HHH, Orton, Cena, the Hardys, Mysterio, were on every week. they stopped liling wrestling a long time ago


5 people calling him fat wouldn't have trended. The fact is enough watched and thought criticize his appearance to the point it became a trend. 



DJ Punk said:


> 400 posts just to talk about how Jericho looks out of shape at 50. How can any of you honestly say that this section isn't an Anti-AEW fanclub in disguise?


I mean you're contributing to this thread, which means you want to discuss the negative just as much even if you're giving defense. 



hardcorewrasslin said:


> So by your logic, if I go on Twitter and post about how stupid the NBA is then the NBA is automatically deemed a failure and anybody who’s says otherwise is just a diehard? Looool!


This point makes no sense at all as your tweet alone isn't going to trend. But if say you and thousands of others were simultaneously tweeting about how shitty the NBA is to the point it was a top trend then yes that would be something to take notice of. 

Let be honest here if the trending Twitter topic was "omg this AEW stuff is pretty awesome, why am I just now finding it". None of you would be blowing Twitter off. You'd be doing backflips about how people get why AEW is awesome and the future.


----------



## DJ Punk

RapShepard said:


> I mean you're contributing to this thread, which means you want to discuss the negative just as much even if you're giving defense.


That's fair. But I contributed mainly when this was first posted. The fact it's still continuing days later is just weird to me. How much more can people really talk about Jericho being fat?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Jericho was done the moment he feuded and lost with Orange Cassidy. 


Also this thread is hilarious. For over a year, we've been telling the AEW fans that the stupid shit they've been booking is dumb and won't attract casuals. Now we have evidence of casuals not being impressed, all the AEW fans wanna do now is disregard them completely. 

Funnily enough, these are the same people AEW are gonna rely on to tune in when Shaq shows up again


----------



## NathanMayberry

DJ Punk said:


> This thread has more posts than the thread about Omega gunning for the other promotions titles which is arguably the biggest angle in all of wrestling right now. Wtf WF...


Its clearly not. That Omega angle is dumb and no one outside of ultra-hardcore Wrestling fans give a fuck.. Impact's ratings are lower now with Omega than they were before he started whatever the fuck he's doing with Callis.


----------



## K4L318

NathanMayberry said:


> Jericho was done the moment he feuded and lost with Orange Cassidy.
> 
> 
> Also this thread is hilarious. For over a year, we've been telling the AEW fans that the stupid shit they've been booking is dumb and won't attract casuals. Now we have evidence of casuals not being impressed, all the AEW fans wanna do now is disregard them completely.
> 
> Funnily enough, these are the same people AEW are gonna rely on to tune in when Shaq shows up again


Ightz bet Nathan. I give ya da pen. What opens Wednesday Night Dynamite on dat first 1/2 hour 

Go. Give me a match dat runs 30 mins. No plurals, give me 1


----------



## NathanMayberry

New to this said:


> Lol... if any of the WWE blowboys believe that the same wouldn’t be said about that product, then it just shows their ignorance.Modern wrestling is trash. Get over it.


I wonder which triggered AEW fan created this account to post this...

BTW, here's what was posted about Roman last night.



https://www.reddit.com/gallery/kka34b



Women love him, a fifty year old fat Trump supporting racist.. not so much


----------



## Chip Chipperson

hardcorewrasslin said:


> And yet I’ve never heard of it...


You didn't answer, I asked you not to deliberately avoid the question and to be brave.

If you've not heard of it how would you know if it's a failure or not? Do you follow Australian independent wrestling specifically in Sydney? If not then no, you probably never have heard of me. Not that I've ever posted my business name up here anyway so you wouldn't know anyway.

Not a great argument mate, did you want to try again?



alex0816 said:


> cause aparently not capitalizing on 5 people who haven't watched wrestling in over a decade means AEW will never be good and can't ever have good ratings.....cause of 5 people


This is just silly at this point.

It's been reported on multiple sources that it was THOUSANDS of people. Jericho TRENDED on Twitter because of how silly and awful AEW was.

I'm sorry if that upsets you, I know you're a big AEW fan but that's how it is.



New to this said:


> Lol... if any of the WWE blowboys believe that the same wouldn’t be said about that product, then it just shows their ignorance.Modern wrestling is trash. Get over it.


With this post made from presumably another re-joiner (Guys, if you come on the boards and immediately have an agenda we know you're not truly new) I decided to check out the first 15 minutes of WWE Smackdown.

I won't do a full review or anything but lets see

- Show kicks off with 1991's "Are You Ready" by AC/DC and a cage match for the Universal Title being hyped.

- Roman Reigns, a man with movie star looks and a body comes out with Paul Heyman, one of the best managers and talkers of all time. Roman Reigns is just 35 years old as opposed to Chris Jericho who is 50.

- Owens come out and whilst yes, he's a fat guy he also looks young (He's only 36 years old), has a beard, tattoos and generally looks like someone you would not fuck with in a bar or a steel cage.

- They then proceed to have a cage match on television which I'm sure is still a rarity for the WWE. 

- Cut to what's coming tonight, a lumberjack match, Daniel Bryan in action against Jey Uso and Asuka/Charlotte Flair in action before cutting to break.

- They then proceed to have a segment with a wide range of attractive women.

---

Compare it to AEW which had 50 year old Jericho in a match against two very young wrestlers for almost 12 minutes, a Hager promo, an acclaimed rap video, a Sting interview and a match involving Marko Stunt that went over 10 minutes.

Which one is more likely to be laughed at by the casual viewer?


----------



## NathanMayberry

K4L318 said:


> Ightz bet Nathan. I give ya da pen. What opens Wednesday Night Dynamite on dat first 1/2 hour
> 
> Go. Give me a match dat runs 30 mins. No plurals, give me 1


I literally don't give a fuck what opens, closes or is in the middle of Dynamite on Wednesday. I have no plans on watching it live... If anything good or noteworthy happens I will watch the streamable of it, but that hasn't happened since Sting arrived, and I already have no interest in watching him since he's being wasted on a clown like Darby Allin.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NathanMayberry said:


> I literally don't give a fuck what opens, closes or is in the middle of Dynamite on Wednesday. I have no plans on watching it live... If anything good or noteworthy happens I will watch the streamable of it, but that hasn't happened since Sting arrived, and I already have no interest in watching him since he's being wasted on a clown like Darby Allin.


Probably saving time, AEW doesn't really have a young known star who can really kick off a show and have people go "Whoa, I know him!" and be impressed. MAYBE Cody.

That's not a slam on AEW, they have plenty of great young talent but that still talent is becoming known by a national audience


----------



## K4L318

NathanMayberry said:


> *I literally don't give a fuck what opens*, closes or is in the middle of Dynamite on Wednesday. I have no plans on watching it live... If anything good or noteworthy happens I will watch the streamable of it, but that hasn't happened since Sting arrived, and I already have no interest in watching him since he's being wasted on a clown like Darby Allin.


so ya talkin out your ass. Like I thought.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

K4L318 said:


> so ya talkin out your ass. Like I thought.


It's already been said.

AEW needed to kick off with a young established star known to past wrestling fans in a good match. Older star might have been okay also but he had to be in shape and be able to still pull out some impressive shit.

Instead we got Jericho who is a big name but looks more like he should be a manager or an announcer in 2020.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's already been said.
> 
> AEW needed to kick off with a young established star known to past wrestling fans in a good match. Older star might have been okay also but he had to be in shape and be able to still pull out some impressive shit.
> 
> Instead we got Jericho who is a big name but looks more like he should be a manager or an announcer in 2020.


they showcased Top Flight who aint even 22 and MJF wit Jericho, and made MJF get da W over Jericho.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

K4L318 said:


> they showcased Top Flight who aint even 22 and MJF wit Jericho, and made MJF get da W over Jericho.


MJF and Top Flight are not established national stars. Top Flight don't have a whole lot to attract a national audience yet either, keep in mind 6 months ago they were exclusively on the indies.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> MJF and Top Flight are not established national stars. Top Flight don't have a whole lot to attract a national audience yet either, keep in mind 6 months ago they were exclusively on the indies.


MJF isnt established? homie got a New York Times award. 😂


----------



## Chip Chipperson

K4L318 said:


> MJF isnt established? homie got a New York Times award. 😂


Nobody knows him, mate. He's a star in a niche product followed by about a million people. NBA fans don't know him.


----------



## The Wood

Just dealing with page 21 first:



alex0816 said:


> it was 5 people on twitter who haven't watched wrestling in a decade. AEW came on literally 2 seconds after the nba game. they had no interest in watching wrestling no matter who was on since, like they said themselves, they haven't watched in over a decade, i doubt anyone new in 2020 would make someone who hasn't watched wrestling in years is just gonna become insanely interested again. they stopped watching in 2009 when CM Punk, Batista, Jericho, Undertaker, HHH, Orton, Cena, the Hardys, Mysterio, were on every week. they stopped liling wrestling a long time ago


It’s not 5 people. It was trending. Youre



DJ Punk said:


> 400 posts just to talk about how Jericho looks out of shape at 50. How can any of you honestly say that this section isn't an Anti-AEW fanclub in disguise?


It’s relevant. You’re in deniak



DJ Punk said:


> This thread has more posts than the thread about Omega gunning for the other promotions titles which is arguably the biggest angle in all of wrestling right now. Wtf WF...


There is no way that is the biggest story in wrestling. You’re in denial.


----------



## Prosper

@Ozell Gray you gotta give it a rest brotha. I can assure you NFL fans are not interested in SD.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nobody knows him, mate. He's a star in a niche product followed by about a million people. NBA fans don't know him.


ya said he wasnt established but he is. A star dat is different. Established name he is.


----------



## The Wood

AEW fans salty as shit because WWE proved something they said was impossible could be done.

Man, just wait and see what happens when The Rock starts his own promotion.


----------



## RainmakerV2

prosperwithdeen said:


> @Ozell Gray you gotta give it a rest brotha. I can assure you NFL fans are not interested in SD.


Im an NFL fan who watches SD.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> AEW fans salty as shit because WWE proved something they said was impossible could be done.
> 
> Man, just wait and see what happens when The Rock starts his own promotion.


I promise ya, 4 million not watching Smackdown after this. Ya gain no audience. No one salty but ya capping. 

He probably gonna fail too. First year? no rub, if it aint on CBS, in da tank.


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> Im an NFL fan who watches SD.


Lol you know what I mean, I'm talking casual sports viewing masses not hardcores.


----------



## RainmakerV2

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol you know what I mean, I'm talking casual sports viewing masses not hardcores.


I dont consider myself hardcore. I dont watch RAW and I havent watches but maybe 30 min of the last two Dynamites because they've just been full of meaningless predictable tags.


----------



## Ozell Gray

prosperwithdeen said:


> @Ozell Gray you gotta give it a rest brotha. I can assure you NFL fans are not interested in SD.


They stayed watching SmackDown throughout was my only point. NFL fans didn’t trash the show like NBA fans did with Dynamite. That was all I ever said bro.


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> I dont consider myself hardcore. I dont watch RAW and I havent watches but maybe 30 min of the last two Dynamites because they've just been full of meaningless predictable tags.


In my opinion, anyone who frequents a wrestling board and keeps up with wrestling news is a hardcore. Even the ones that rely on Youtube to catch clips because they don't want to watch full shows. 



Ozell Gray said:


> They stayed watching SmackDown throughout was my only point. NFL fans didn’t trash the show like NBA fans did with Dynamite. That was all I ever said bro.


Oh I can guarantee you that both NBA and NFL fans trashed or laughed at the shows for the simple fact that it's wrestling. Our love for wrestling doesn't translate to most of the outside world unfortunately.


----------



## Ozell Gray

prosperwithdeen said:


> Oh I can guarantee you that both NBA and NFL fans trashed or laughed at the shows for the simple fact that it's wrestling. Our love for wrestling doesn't translate to most of the outside world unfortunately.


the NFL fans weren’t vocal about their dislike of SmackDown like the NBA fans were of Dynamite. I know that SmackDown’s numbers will drop next week but this week is a massive win for WWE and shows that growing your audience on tv can be done. I agree wrestling isn’t popular and doesn’t translate to casuals.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> Stars should be booked like stars. If you’re booked and featured this goddamn much, I want your ass drawing ratings. I hate Hogan, but Nitro was fucking watched by MILLIONS. Cody being featured more and more prominently during the first COVID shows and during his TNT Title reign lead to a massive drop in ratings and the shows being shit. When he went off TV, the shows became more compelling and saw a fucking uptick in ratings. He came back, and they dropped.
> 
> There is a direct correlation between how heavily featured Cody is and what the ratings will do.


Cody is booked like a star. Who and what is gonna draw big ratings in 2020? What angle could they possibly run? 

If Lesnar and Rousey didn't make a difference then I genuinely don't see what any promotion can do. 



bdon said:


> And the reason Cody gets the HHH treatment from me is that without the book, he is not a star. He books himself, and himself ONLY, this way. Moxley was the goddamn world heavyweight champion and got 2 minute promos. Kenny is out here attempting to conquer the wrestling world, and he doesn’t get featured that heavily.
> 
> That’s the issue. If Cody can write himself into THAT much goddamn TV, then he can find more meaningful shit for Darby Allin, Page, Pac, Jungle Boy, Moxley, etc to do.


Yeah, Cody does get that extra Dynamite loving for sure. As long as he doesn't win everything though I'm cool with it for now. If he had beat Darby Allin at Full Gear I would be right there with you bashing him. Seeing as Brodie has also been out so long and Tony has been reluctant to talk about it, I don't even think Cody winning the title back in the Dog Collar match was the original plan at this point. Something personal has to be going on with the big man. But yeah I do agree that the storyline wealth needs to be spread a little more going into their 2nd year.


----------



## The Wood

Lol, Chris Jericho made an embarrassing tweet about this. Bragged about how much fitter than everybody else he is and that he has thick skin...

Which if he had, he wouldn’t have made the tweet.


----------



## Prosper

Ozell Gray said:


> the NFL fans weren’t vocal about their dislike of SmackDown like the NBA fans were of Dynamite. I know that SmackDown’s numbers will drop next week but this week is a massive win for WWE and shows that growing your audience on tv can be done. I agree wrestling isn’t popular and doesn’t translate to casuals.


I mean it's possible that they just weren't tweeting on Christmas night...doesn't mean the convos are not being had though.

Last night's show was good but they have been phoning it in all year, especially with the Braun/Wyatt stuff that went on for like 5 months straight. Imagine if Roman didn't have a heel turn or come back lol or if Sasha Banks wasn't being the goddess that she is every week.


----------



## The Wood

prosperwithdeen said:


> I mean it's possible that they just weren't tweeting on Christmas night...
> 
> Last night's show was good but they have been phoning it in all year, especially with the Braun/Wyatt stuff that went on for like 5 months straight. Imagine if Roman didn't have a heel turn or come back lol or if Sasha Banks wasn't being the goddess that she is every week.


Yeah, but he did and she is. People can tweet from their phones. Chris Jericho is just obviously having a mid-life crisis and people called AEW out in trotting that out on TV.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> Last night's show was good but they have been phoning it in all year, especially with the Braun/Wyatt stuff that went on for like 5 months straight. Imagine if Roman didn't have a heel turn or come back lol or if Sasha Banks wasn't being the goddess that she is every week.


You guys are scraping the bottom of the barrel today.

Imagine if Eric Bischoff never put Hulk Hogan in the nWo or if Vince McMahon didn't give Stone Cold the opportunity to cut a promo after winning King Of The Ring.

We're now at the point where "WWE would suck if they didn't have such good ideas!". Jeeeeeez

Meanwhile in the "Suggestions" section of this forum another AEW loyalist is trying to get an "AEW Rants" section created because he doesn't like AEW being called on their BS.


----------



## Ozell Gray

prosperwithdeen said:


> I mean it's possible that they just weren't tweeting on Christmas night...doesn't mean the convos are not being had though.
> 
> Last night's show was good but they have been phoning it in all year, especially with the Braun/Wyatt stuff that went on for like 5 months straight. Imagine if Roman didn't have a heel turn or come back lol or if Sasha Banks wasn't being the goddess that she is every week.


They could’ve had those conversations, but they weren’t out there for us to see them but at the same time they retained some NFL fans for the show.

If Roman Reigns didn’t turn heel and Sasha Banks wasn’t getting pushed then SmackDown wouldn’t be seeing the ratings it has now.


----------



## Prosper

's


Chip Chipperson said:


> You guys are scraping the bottom of the barrel today.
> 
> Imagine if Eric Bischoff never put Hulk Hogan in the nWo or if Vince McMahon didn't give Stone Cold the opportunity to cut a promo after winning King Of The Ring.
> 
> We're now at the point where "WWE would suck if they didn't have such good ideas!". Jeeeeeez
> 
> Meanwhile in the "Suggestions" section of this forum another AEW loyalist is trying to get an "AEW Rants" section created because he doesn't like AEW being called on their BS.


No barrel-scraping here brotha. The difference between your examples and the reality of SD now is that Bischoff gave a shit about his shows all year so putting Hogan in the NWO was an add-on to top off what was already an entertaining product. Same with Austin back in the late 90's. What we have now though is a WWE product where execs haven't given a shit for the last 5-6 years who are lucky to have people be interested in Roman's heel turn because they had nothing else going on. The WWE section absolutely trashed the show prior to his return and now it's the greatest thing ever? Because of one built up guy who the entire show revolves around? Please, spare me. If they didn't have him there would be nothing to the show which is a vast difference to Bischoff's WCW or The Attitude Era. Last night was a good start in the right direction though with Bianca getting more storyline involvement and Big E winning the IC gold.


----------



## The Wood

Nah, it’s barrel-scraping. People blaming the WWE on it presenting stars is pretty hilarious.


----------



## CM Buck

hardcorewrasslin said:


> Jericho is a 50 year old man, and despite the fluff he is still in decent shape for somebody his age who doesn’t juice. Not to mention he can still wrestle and do the same moves he’s done since 2000.
> 
> I think you need to grow up and stop body shaming people on the internet my dude.


No dude, criticising Jericho's gut is perfectly fine. Every male wrestler gets critiqued for looks. You went after a poster for something completely irrelevant to the discussion for no reason at all.

You don't need to do that over a wrestling promotion you enjoy


----------



## jroc72191

Chip Chipperson said:


> Due to the NBA game today AEW got a fair amount of crossover fans. They kicked the show off with Chris Jericho and it has hilariously backfired.
> 
> 
> Not good
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think he means crazy in a good way...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Horribly scripted"
> 
> 
> Will he tune back?
> 
> ---
> 
> This is the mainstream my friends. They are unforgiving and vicious but this is valuable insight for AEW
> 
> Stay away from the older guys from WWE, stick with guys who are in shape and marketable. Also get a proper creative team
> 
> Thanks guys, looking forward to your views
> 
> Lyle "Chip" Chipperson



you are the person keeping this forum alive and for that i am grateful lol. now i got 22 pages to catch up on tonight


----------



## Chip Chipperson

jroc72191 said:


> you are the person keeping this forum alive and for that i am grateful lol. now i got 22 pages to catch up on tonight


I appreciate the warm compliments but WF would keep on going without the Chippah


----------



## jroc72191

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nope. Disagree entirely.
> 
> Eli Drake, Jay Lethal and Michael Elgin Vs Alexander Hammerstone, Jacob Fatu and Pac keeps the fans there tonight.
> 
> Especially if CM Punk turns up before the opening match with a big gold belt.
> 
> They've bet on the wrong talent. Nobody in AEW is all that appealing to casuals or lapsed fans


Jesus Christ I hate how right this is


----------



## hardcorewrasslin

Chip Chipperson said:


> If you've not heard of it how would you know if it's a failure or not?


Because I’ve never heard of it.


----------



## hardcorewrasslin

Firefromthegods said:


> No dude, criticising Jericho's gut is perfectly fine. Every male wrestler gets critiqued for looks. You went after a poster for something completely irrelevant to the discussion for no reason at all.
> 
> You don't need to do that over a wrestling promotion you enjoy


No body shaming is not fine. Especially if the person can’t really control it. 

Also I went after him because he always criticises promotions and yet his own promotion is a by definition a failure.


----------



## La Parka

hardcorewrasslin said:


> Not to mention he can still wrestle and do the same moves he’s done since 2000.


You’re delusional.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle

Wrestling in general is not cool, and probably never will be again. And AEW was never going to become truly mainstream regardless of what they did. But if people knew in 2016/17 that a few years from then there would be a new wrestling promotion with the likes of Omega, Ambrose, Jericho, Cody, the Bucks, Cage, Rusev, Swagger, Neville, Pentagon etc etc, on TNT, with a tv-14 rating, doing 700-900k viewers, thousands in live attendance (pre pandemic) and Jr and Schiavone on commentary, I think we all would have been pretty surprised and happy about it. 



DJ Punk said:


> 400 posts just to talk about how Jericho looks out of shape at 50. How can any of you honestly say that this section isn't an Anti-AEW fanclub in disguise?


Lol, this is the first time ive been on here in ages. Wtf happened to this section? looks like the honeymoon period is over.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

hardcorewrasslin said:


> Because I’ve never heard of it.


This is an awful argument. I'm going to leave this one here because I'm feeling embarrassed.


----------



## La Parka

Every small business in Australia is a failure.

Ive never even heard of any of them!


----------



## CM Buck

hardcorewrasslin said:


> No body shaming is not fine. Especially if the person can’t really control it.
> 
> Also I went after him because he always criticises promotions and yet his own promotion is a by definition a failure.


Jericho can though. He looked much better earlier in the year. 

Fine. You want to take someone's criticism of aew personally call them out in rants. Personal insults are allowed there. Anywhere else you get in trouble as per the rules of wrestling forum


----------



## .christopher.

alex0816 said:


> people getting boners for anything negative about AEW. yall weird man


What's more weird is enjoying AEW. It's an embarrassment.


----------



## CM Buck

.christopher. said:


> What's more weird is enjoying AEW. It's an embarrassment.


Come on mate don't go that far.


----------



## Cooper09

They're doing what WWE does all the time, boost up their product by showcasing some fat hasbeen. And AEW was supposed to be the place where new talent will be showcased.


----------



## qntntgood

Lesnar Turtle said:


> Wrestling in general is not cool, and probably never will be again. And AEW was never going to become truly mainstream regardless of what they did. But if people knew in 2016/17 that a few years from then there would be a new wrestling promotion with the likes of Omega, Ambrose, Jericho, Cody, the Bucks, Cage, Rusev, Swagger, Neville, Pentagon etc etc, on TNT, with a tv-14 rating, doing 700-900k viewers, thousands in live attendance (pre pandemic) and Jr and Schiavone on commentary, I think we all would have been pretty surprised and happy about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, this is the first time ive been on here in ages. Wtf happened to this section? looks like the honeymoon period is over.


Smackdown just draw it's highest rating,in a long time do to the NFL lead in.4 million viewers watched,and 4 million viewers stayed until end of the end of the show.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle

qntntgood said:


> Smackdown just draw it's highest rating,in a long time do to the NFL lead in.4 million viewers watched,and 4 million viewers stayed until end of the end of the show.


....okay? not sure what your point is? wrestling is cool now because SD did a decent number with an NFL lead in?

Btw FWIW it didnt maintain 4 million for the full show, it dropped to 2.5m for hour two. People started tuning out after the cage match.


----------



## qntntgood

Lesnar Turtle said:


> ....okay? not sure what your point is? wrestling is cool now because SD did a decent number with an NFL lead in?
> 
> Btw FWIW it didnt maintain 4 million for the full show, it dropped to 2.5m for hour two. People started tuning out after the cage match.


My point is wrestling can make comeback,there still a market for it but they have to cut out the stupid craps.no wrestling at this point is not cool,because it doesn't appeal to today's audience.


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> Cody is booked like a star. Who and what is gonna draw big ratings in 2020? What angle could they possibly run?
> 
> If Lesnar and Rousey didn't make a difference then I genuinely don't see what any promotion can do.


Not having 20+ minutes of Dynamite revolving around Cody every week lifted the ratings from the 700k range into the 850k range.

So, that is one thing THIS promotion can do and did. Stop shoving Cody rHHHodes down our throats, and your ratings will increase.

And you fucking admitted to me that you KNEW Cody needed to not be involved in Sting/Darby’s relationship going forward. Yet here you are defending Cody rHHHodes again.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

La Parka said:


> Every small business in Australia is a failure.
> 
> Ive never even heard of any of them!


He then proceeds to say that I'm by definition a failure.

Failure means a lack of success and whilst I admit my success has been limited and is only regional it's still success so he's wrong there also.

Oof


----------



## $Dolladrew$

The Wood said:


> They probably would have turned it off because it’s honestly a pretty bad product and it made a lot of them think it was bootleg WWE.
> 
> That’s not a good thing.


Every wrestling promotion is a bootleg wwe to mainstream ......


----------



## Lesnar Turtle

qntntgood said:


> My point is wrestling can make comeback,there still a market for it but they have to cut out the stupid craps.no wrestling at this point is not cool,because it doesn't appeal to today's audience.


What appeals to todays audience though?

Dont get me wrong, theres definitely things AEW could do better, for one the matches on Dynamite tend to be too long and too tag focused. But I cant see any reliable way to consistently push the numbers past the 1m mark right now, short of going full WCW and making unrealistically big signings like Cena, Brock, Rock, Punk etc.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

I'm fully enjoying this thread quite entertaining if I'm being honest lol.

Everyone roasting AEW should stop to think that even the WWE is looked at as a fucking laughingstock by these people.Pro wrestling is not cool in today's world, and regardless the product you put out it would be laughed at.. this thread isn't how mainstream sees AEW.....this is how the mainstream views pro wrestling period.


----------



## RapShepard

prosperwithdeen said:


> 's
> 
> No barrel-scraping here brotha. The difference between your examples and the reality of SD now is that Bischoff gave a shit about his shows all year so putting Hogan in the NWO was an *add-on to top off what was already an entertaining product. Same with Austin back in the late 90's.* What we have now though is a WWE product where execs haven't given a shit for the last 5-6 years who are lucky to have people be interested in Roman's heel turn because they had nothing else going on. The WWE section absolutely trashed the show prior to his return and now it's the greatest thing ever? Because of one built up guy who the entire show revolves around? Please, spare me. If they didn't have him there would be nothing to the show which is a vast difference to Bischoff's WCW or The Attitude Era. Last night was a good start in the right direction though with Bianca getting more storyline involvement and Big E winning the IC gold.


Wait isn't it like commonly accepted that WCW and WWF were down in the dumps prior to these breakthrough moments for each company. Those moment took shows that weren't well received and took them too new heights. That's turning something around not a cherry on top


----------



## Seth Grimes

The saddest part is that's one of their best outcomes. Imagine they ended up seeing anyone from Jurassic Express, FTR, or the Dark Order. They should have been putting Cody, Kenny, MJF or maybe Mox, front and centre.


----------



## Seth Grimes

Oh, and GOD forbid they seen Orange Cassidy. Casuals would love him, because he basically makes a joke out of wrestling, and they could laugh and he no sells, and does those dumbass shin kicks.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

$Dolladrew$ said:


> I'm fully enjoying this thread quite entertaining if I'm being honest lol.
> 
> Everyone roasting AEW should stop to think that even the WWE is looked at as a fucking laughingstock by these people.Pro wrestling is not cool in today's world, and regardless the product you put out it would be laughed at.. this thread isn't how mainstream sees AEW.....this is how the mainstream views pro wrestling period.


The WWE gained two million viewers from their lead in. They dropped some but finished in the three millions overall.

I've not seen any NFL fans really mocking them yet


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> The WWE gained two million viewers from their lead in. They dropped some but finished in the three millions overall.
> 
> I've not seen any NFL fans really mocking them yet


All of this. I hate WWE and Vince with a passion, but they were able to have people view them without being mocked all over social media.

AEW needs to stop putting the fucking joke characters on TV. You want to be a joke, then you’ll be a joke to the potential audience you’re trying to attract.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle

bdon said:


> All of this. I hate WWE and Vince with a passion, but they were able to have people view them without being mocked all over social media.





Chip Chipperson said:


> I've not seen any NFL fans really mocking them yet


Couldnt this partly be because most people are already semi-familiar with the WWE and what its like? AEW is new, it would have been the first time many of those NBA fans had seen it, some might not have even been aware it existed until that point. Because of that theres probably going to be more of a "wtf is this?" reaction than with the WWE.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Chip Chipperson said:


> The WWE gained two million viewers from their lead in. They dropped some but finished in the three millions overall.
> 
> I've not seen any NFL fans really mocking them yet


Aew made a mistake not thinking through the lead in match for sure.They assumed Jericho being a bigger name would appeal to the older fans remembering him......unfortunately they did but for all the wrong reasons.Honestly though even if they had Brisn cage instead of Jericho I guarantee there would've been comments of the knockoff WWE because to mainstream WWE=WRESTLING.General population have never heard of AEW but have atleast heard of WWE.Also WWE have been seeing record low viewership so for them to basically just end up with the normal number of viewers isn't that impressive. 

Pro wrestling is not popular or cool you guys can laugh and snicker but just remember this is a reflection of the entire industry. If they did a poll or questionnaire for the general population about pro wrestlings popularity and overall perception itd be overwhelmingly negative. 

Go ahead and go to the store any store and ask 10 random people about wrestling LMFAO you're bubble would be burst in minutes.There is s very limited appeal to anyone outside the pro wrestling bubble.The same can be said for combat sports.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Lesnar Turtle said:


> Couldnt this partly be because most people are already semi-familiar with the WWE and what its like? AEW is new, it would have been the first time many of those NBA fans had seen it, some might not have even been aware it existed until that point. Because of that theres probably going to be more of a "wtf is this?" reaction than with the WWE.


Exactly people have atleast heard of WWE and are familiar with it being scripted and goofy with AEW it was a double WTF is this ? Seeing AEW being pro wrestling which anything outside WWE is labeled a knockoff by casuals anyway,then recognizing Jericho and seeing him pudgy just fueled the roast lol.


----------



## The Wood

People are trying to explain this away like it isn’t a bad thing.


----------



## validreasoning

prosperwithdeen said:


> 's
> 
> No barrel-scraping here brotha. The difference between your examples and the reality of SD now is that Bischoff gave a shit about his shows all year so putting Hogan in the NWO was an add-on to top off what was already an entertaining product. Same with Austin back in the late 90's.


Lol did you watch back then? 1995 is the absolute lowest point of pro wrestling is the US in the modern era (84- ).

Only a few months before NWO arrived the yeti and dungeon of doom was top angle. You had doomsday cage match, a 50 year old giant haystacks getting main event push only for him to get cancer. Only 1,800 paid into nitro the night Scott Hall walked out..

WWF for their part weren't good either. 95 was an absolute disaster for them. 96 they produced most boring tv in my time of watching despite hot angle on first show of year. We had billionaire Ted then fake diesel and razor as answers to nitros debut then hall and Nash. 97 gave us Sid as champion, everyone in a midcard faction and uninteresting Taker title. Wasn't until post Summerslam 97 did wwf becoming interesting. By that point they had already lost significant amount of money that year.



> What we have now though is a WWE product where execs haven't given a shit for the last 5-6 years who are lucky to have people be interested in Roman's heel turn because they had nothing else going on.


Not true. Lots of stuff has gone on last 6 years.
Bryan's rise, the shield, the Wyatt's, rise of women from piss break to Wrestlemania mainevent, Strowman vs Reigns program, Goldberg vs Brock (everything 2004 should have been), Styles push in 2016-17.

Could have listed loads of other stuff like pushes for Owens, Kofi, Jinder, Nakamura etc etc. It's not like WWE haven't tried..they have. The biggest problem is no replacement for Cena so without face of company most pushes and angles don't resonate past initial programs.



> The WWE section absolutely trashed the show prior to his return and now it's the greatest thing ever?


The iwc doesn't watch SD and haven't during whole time I have been part of it so who exactly are these people?

SD has been good tv for over a year now. Bayley and Sasha were fantastic as a team. Sheamus and Jeff Hardy did their best work in years. The Wyatt and Cena stuff on SD was great (match at Wrestlemania was weird), Bryan and styles program in early summer. So yeah it was good before Reigns returned.

Good tv has never meant shit though. If you follow WWE you do so to watch the "stars". That's why we get so much use of word "geek"" "jobber" "larger than life" in the iwc

People want to tune into WWE for guys that are presented as superstars. However harping back to initial point without your fotc you really can't do that. You need a tide to lift all boats first.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle

The Wood said:


> People are trying to explain this away like it isn’t a bad thing.


Its ultimately a pretty meaningless thing being blown out of proportion. They could have hit it out of the park with that episode and next week the ratings would have barely changed. Some chick who hasnt seen any wrestling since she was a child in 2007 (and doesnt even realize its not WWE she watching) isnt magically going to become a fan because you booked a good show. A lot of people just think wrestling is lame, dead and watched exclusively by thirty something neckbeards. It is what it is.


I'm actually pleasantly surprised that AEW is doing in the 700-900k range tbh. I expected that after a year of weekly tv the novelty would have worn off and it'd be more like 500-600k now. Some people just expect too much of AEW, they will never become the new WCW, theres essentially nothing they could do creatively to get those kinds of numbers, its a different world. Their ceiling is around a million if they can find a particularly hot storyline/star.


----------



## The Wood

People are trying to e p


Lesnar Turtle said:


> Its ultimately a pretty meaningless thing being blown out of proportion. They could have hit it out of the park with that episode and next week the ratings would have barely changed. Some chick who hasnt seen any wrestling since she was a child in 2007 (and doesnt even realize its not WWE she watching) isnt magically going to become a fan because you booked a good show. A lot of people just think wrestling is lame, dead and watched exclusively by thirty something neckbeards. It is what it is.
> 
> 
> I'm actually pleasantly surprised that AEW is doing in the 700-900k range tbh. I expected that after a year of weekly tv the novelty would have worn off and it'd be more like 500-600k now. Some people just expect too much of AEW, they will never become the new WCW, theres essentially nothing they could do creatively to get those kinds of numbers, its a different world. Their ceiling is around a million if they can find a particularly hot storyline/star.


You absolutely can make those people fans, lol. You’re making very reasonable points otherwise, but I simply disagree that these people are lost to wrestling. If anything, they are unspoiled and a perfect audience to make an impression on.


----------



## Dickhead1990

The Wood said:


> You absolutely can make those people fans, lol. You’re making very reasonable points otherwise, but I simply disagree that these people are lost to wrestling. If anything, they are unspoiled and a perfect audience to make an impression on.


Honestly, not many will be though, regardless of which company follows the other program. WWF/E's reputation has soiled the image of pro-wrestling, a reputation born prior to the attitude era might I add. I can totally understand as wrestling is a bit of a trash genre in all honesty, as much as I love it. Poor scripting and acting, fake combat and over-the-top cheesiness is as jarring as soap operas or cheesy musicals to most people at the end of the day. You might get the odd few people willing to give it a try, but most will likely have had some form of interest already - which is what AEW are actually aiming for. They're after the disengaged and hardcore fan clearly.

Still, they managed to get a reaction. By many people's books, that can be a positive - even if they were fat-shaming Jericho.


----------



## The Wood

Dickhead1990 said:


> Honestly, not many will be though, regardless of which company follows the other program. WWF/E's reputation has soiled the image of pro-wrestling, a reputation born prior to the attitude era might I add. I can totally understand as wrestling is a bit of a trash genre in all honesty, as much as I love it. Poor scripting and acting, fake combat and over-the-top cheesiness is as jarring as soap operas or cheesy musicals to most people at the end of the day. You might get the odd few people willing to give it a try, but most will likely have had some form of interest already - which is what AEW are actually aiming for. They're after the disengaged and hardcore fan clearly.
> 
> Still, they managed to get a reaction. By many people's books, that can be a positive - even if they were fat-shaming Jericho.


You may not get millions and millions of new fans, but you can at least try. Yes, wrestling has a bad image. But that can also be challenged and changed. AEW has done absolutely nothing to help wrestling.


----------



## Dickhead1990

The Wood said:


> You may not get millions and millions of new fans, but you can at least try. Yes, wrestling has a bad image. But that can also be challenged and changed. AEW has done absolutely nothing to help wrestling.


What you said made total sense.

Then you lost me on the last part.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle

The Wood said:


> People are trying to e p
> 
> 
> You absolutely can make those people fans, lol. You’re making very reasonable points otherwise, but I simply disagree that these people are lost to wrestling. If anything, they are unspoiled and a perfect audience to make an impression on.


How exactly do you do it though? And what numbers should AEW be doing to be considered a success anyway? like I said 700-900k seems pretty good all things considered. I just cant see any realistic creative moves they could make that would push it much beyond a million weekly viewers, never mind bring it close to WWE numbers. Do you think theres a star or angle at their disposal right now that could make them "mainstream"?


----------



## Cult03

Dickhead1990 said:


> What you said made total sense.
> 
> Then you lost me on the last part.


Then argue it? Don't just say it's not true, explain what they've done for wrestling.


----------



## The Wood

Dickhead1990 said:


> What you said made total sense.
> 
> Then you lost me on the last part.


I genuinely think they’ve left wrestling in a potentially worse spot than it was before. And I think anyone who isn’t already indoctrinated into the world of wrestling is going to look at AEW and laugh. It hasn’t helped wrestling’s image at all. Hence this thread. 



Lesnar Turtle said:


> How exactly do you do it though? And what numbers should AEW be doing to be considered a success anyway? like I said 700-900k seems pretty good all things considered. I just cant see any realistic creative moves they could make that would push it much beyond a million weekly viewers, never mind bring it close to WWE numbers. Do you think theres a star or angle at their disposal right now that could make them "mainstream"?


Success is subjective. I think 1.6 million viewers would be considered a good TV number. Keep in mind Raw does 1.6 and it’s a horrible three hour borefest.

How do you do it? Cop-out answer, good wrestling. Lol. Guys who look like stars, talk shit, then beat the shit out of each other. Too much effort is put into making wrestling something other than wrestling.


----------



## Dickhead1990

Cult03 said:


> Then argue it? Don't just say it's not true, explain what they've done for wrestling.


They've provided an alternative for viewers and employment for many hundreds of people and stability to them during a major pandemic, which led to huge swathes of the world being furloughed or made unemployed. If that's doing nothing for wrestling, then you my friend are delusional.


----------



## Dickhead1990

The Wood said:


> I genuinely think they’ve left wrestling in a potentially worse spot than it was before. And I think anyone who isn’t already indoctrinated into the world of wrestling is going to look at AEW and laugh. It hasn’t helped wrestling’s image at all. Hence this thread.


They'll laugh at any company, or get bored for others. I fail to see how that can make it worse. Wrestling is pretty low-brow to say the least.


----------



## Cult03

Dickhead1990 said:


> They've provided an alternative for viewers and employment for many hundreds of people and stability to them during a major pandemic, which led to huge swathes of the world being furloughed or made unemployed. If that's doing nothing for wrestling, then you my friend are delusional.


I didn't say I agreed with Wood, they've certainly done something for wrestling. I am simp;y asking AEW fans to start justifying their opinions.


----------



## Dickhead1990

Cult03 said:


> I didn't say I agreed with Wood, they've certainly done something for wrestling. I am simp;y asking AEW fans to start justifying their opinions.


I would think this would go without saying really. Anyone with a degree of common sense would agree that all wrestling promotions make a mark on the wrestling landscape, even without considering what they actually put out there.

No need for the us vs them rhetoric here, I'm just a wrestling fan in general. I just happen to enjoy and only find time for AEW. Mind you, I'm now starting to see why people think wrestling fans are a bit special based on some of these threads.


----------



## The Wood

Dickhead1990 said:


> They've provided an alternative for viewers and employment for many hundreds of people and stability to them during a major pandemic, which led to huge swathes of the world being furloughed or made unemployed. If that's doing nothing for wrestling, then you my friend are delusional.


All that is very short-term. I think they’ve potentially shot the chances of other people getting into wrestling in the foot. I’m really hoping that a new promotion springs up, but if this hands more of a monopoly over to Vince, it’s not a benefit to wrestling. 

I do not consider them an alternative in terms of quality.



Dickhead1990 said:


> They'll laugh at any company, or get bored for others. I fail to see how that can make it worse. Wrestling is pretty low-brow to say the least.


That’s actually not a given. You might as well try good wrestling that doesn’t go for that low-brow approach and see how it does


----------



## Cult03

Dickhead1990 said:


> I would think this would go without saying really. Anyone with a degree of common sense would agree that all wrestling promotions make a mark on the wrestling landscape, even without considering what they actually put out there.
> 
> No need for the us vs them rhetoric here, I'm just a wrestling fan in general. I just happen to enjoy and only find time for AEW. Mind you, I'm now starting to see why people think wrestling fans are a bit special based on some of these threads.


I think there's a certain level of comprehension that wrestling fans are lacking when it comes to understanding hyperbole and other rhetorical devices on this website especially. I can guarantee Wood knows AEW has made a mark, but just how positive has that mark been in regards to the growth of wrestling around the world? One could argue they've given us some of the most embarrassing wrestling seen on television in some time. Stuff that is seen as a detriment to the growth of wrestling worldwide. They have definitely added to that negative image that wrestling already has. Is that the kind of mark AEW was trying to make?


----------



## Dickhead1990

The Wood said:


> All that is very short-term. I think they’ve potentially shot the chances of other people getting into wrestling in the foot. I’m really hoping that a new promotion springs up, but if this hands more of a monopoly over to Vince, it’s not a benefit to wrestling.
> 
> I do not consider them an alternative in terms of quality.
> 
> 
> 
> That’s actually not a given. You might as well try good wrestling that doesn’t go for that low-brow approach and see how it does


They've only existed for the short-term and don't appear to be going anywhere anytime soon. What you mean is that it isn't for you, not that it hasn't made an impact. If you don't like it, that's fine. May I suggest moving onto something that you do like, instead of hanging around and engaging in shadenfreud.

There is not and never has been high-brow wrestling. It's a fake sport at the end of the day.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I remember about ten years ago fans would avoid saying fake to not offend the wrestlers.

Now every fan points it out daily to excuse things.


----------



## Dickhead1990

Cult03 said:


> I think there's a certain level of comprehension that wrestling fans are lacking when it comes to understanding hyperbole and other rhetorical devices on this website especially. I can guarantee Wood knows AEW has made a mark, but just how positive has that mark been in regards to the growth of wrestling around the world? One could argue they've given us some of the most embarrassing wrestling seen on television in some time. Stuff that is seen as a detriment to the growth of wrestling worldwide. They have definitely added to that negative image that wrestling already has. Is that the kind of mark AEW was trying to make?


Nearly everything written on this site is hyperbole and opinion, it doesn't mean that you can't be called out on it.

I see your point, but that is always the case on wrestling forums for everything. I will point at WWE, simply because it's been around for the longest. Can you remember a time when people weren't saying that the current era is the worst? Even during the attitude era, people were shouting their dismay for The Rock through their Windows 98 desktops. What makes me laugh even more is that people now look back with rose-tinted goggles to around 2009-12 - the era that turned most of us away. Fast forward and now the focus is on AEW, whilst people are simultaneously doing the same for WWE. The big questions is do any of us actually like wrestling?

What in real terms has been more embarrassing in AEW than any period in the last 20 years of wrestling?


----------



## Dickhead1990

Chip Chipperson said:


> I remember about ten years ago fans would avoid saying fake to not offend the wrestlers.
> 
> Now every fan points it out daily to excuse things.


To the average person, it is fake. Sure, we know very well that bumps hurt, you need to be physically fit and spots are pre-determined, but it's not a legit sport. This is what damaged wrestling and you can blame WWF in the late 80's for that.

The big question is though, is it more offensive to call wrestling fake or to constantly rag on their efforts on forums?


----------



## Cult03

Dickhead1990 said:


> Nearly everything written on this site is hyperbole and opinion, it doesn't mean that you can't be called out on it.
> 
> I see your point, but that is always the case on wrestling forums for everything. I will point at WWE, simply because it's been around for the longest. Can you remember a time when people weren't saying that the current era is the worst? Even during the attitude era, people were shouting their dismay for The Rock through their Windows 98 desktops. What makes me laugh even more is that people now look back with rose-tinted goggles to around 2009-12 - the era that turned most of us away. Fast forward and now the focus is on AEW, whilst people are simultaneously doing the same for WWE. The big questions is do any of us actually like wrestling?
> 
> What in real terms has been more embarrassing in AEW than any period in the last 20 years of wrestling?


It takes that level of comprehension to understand what he's saying though. We all know it's made a mark, but he's arguing whether it's been a good mark.

Marko Stunt wrestling giants, Shawn Spears getting de-pantsed, Michael Nakazawa, Luther, Joey Janela being allowed on tv without a shirt, Johnny Hunngiieeeeee or whatever the fuck that is, MJF and Jericho breaking out into song, a guy wrestling with his hands in his pants, a legitimate feud over who is the worst in the company.


----------



## Dickhead1990

Cult03 said:


> It takes that level of comprehension to understand what he's saying though. We all know it's made a mark, but he's arguing whether it's been a good mark.
> 
> Marko Stunt wrestling giants, Shawn Spears getting de-pantsed, Michael Nakazawa, Luther, Joey Janela being allowed on tv without a shirt, Johnny Hunngiieeeeee or whatever the fuck that is, MJF and Jericho breaking out into song, a guy wrestling with his hands in his pants, a legitimate feud over who is the worst in the company.


And my answer didn't prove that? Hyperbole or not, it's a pretty daft statement.

Pick a year in WWE (again, just because I'm more qualified to find a comparison, not knocking them).


----------



## Cult03

Dickhead1990 said:


> And my answer didn't prove that? Hyperbole or not, it's a pretty daft statement.
> 
> Pick a year in WWE (again, just because I'm more qualified to find a comparison, not knocking them).


WWE have been a detriment too. Hence why wrestling has turned to shit. AEW was supposed to be different. This proves my point entirely.


----------



## Dickhead1990

Cult03 said:


> WWE have been a detriment too. Hence why wrestling has turned to shit. AEW was supposed to be different. This proves my point entirely.


My point is that this is what wrestling is; low-brow entertainment. People often complain about a show being full of work-rate wrestling, then they complain about entertainment. It's high-time we learn to take wrestling a lot less seriously than we do. I used to complain non-stop about it when I was younger, then I realised it's all trashy and just enjoyed it for just that. Grappling and banter with some storylines thrown in.

As for AEW not being different. It clearly is in some ways. But what were you realistically expecting to be different in the first place? The fact is that although some of those things you listed were awful, you can justify some of them too.

Marco Stunt with giants - he got killed!
Shawn Spears - Okay, that was awful.
Nakazawa - He's awful, but he's a jobber.
Luther - Doesn't belong near a ring.
Joey Janela without a shirt - He's not in good shape, but he can still go (moderately).
Jonnie Hungeee - He's part of a spooky pervert cult, which are very banterous. It's fitting.
MJF and Jericho - They tried something different here.
Orange Cassidy - He's pleasantly surprised me to be honest.
The feud over the worst in the company - which was on Dark and BTE, rarely to be seen anywhere near Dynamite.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Dickhead1990 said:


> As for AEW not being different. It clearly is in some ways. But what were you realistically expecting to be different in the first place?


Well for one we were promised a serious sports style approach with only the best of the WWE being signed


----------



## Dickhead1990

Chip Chipperson said:


> Well for one we were promised a serious sports style approach with only the best of the WWE being signed


I still see more serious sports styling than their main roster competitors if I'm quite frank. Whether it's better than NXT, similarly marketed alongside the developmental aspect, is down to personal interpretation. So far no one's been burnt alive, buried alive or thrown from the top of a building, like has happened this year alone in WWE.

There's a line they have to draw to have people actually want to watch the show instead of the likes of ROH.

As for the best of WWE being signed. Was that actually a promise or an assumption? Whether I agreed with these signings or not, it appeared that people on here believed that they were all worth more than they were in WWE.


----------



## yeahright2

Dickhead1990 said:


> As for the best of WWE being signed. Was that actually a promise or an assumption? Whether I agreed with these signings or not, it appeared that people on here believed that they were all worth more than they were in WWE.


That was a promise. They said "There´s 3, MAYBE 4 people in WWE that we want"


----------



## Dickhead1990

yeahright2 said:


> That was a promise. They said "There´s 3, MAYBE 4 people in WWE that we want"


When and where did they say this? And how many signings did they make after?

If I recall, this came from an interview around the time of the mass culling from WWE. In which case, they did sign around 4 people.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Dickhead1990 said:


> When and where did they say this? And how many signings did they make after?
> 
> If I recall, this came from an interview around the time of the mass culling from WWE. In which case, they did sign around 4 people.


It was early on from I think Jericho. They've gone onto sign about 40 ex WWE wrestlers/staff since


----------



## Dickhead1990

Chip Chipperson said:


> It was early on from I think Jericho. They've gone onto sign about 40 ex WWE wrestlers/staff since


Fair play if he did. Mind you, Jericho's position in recruitment is what exactly?

Whilst I agree that some shouldn't have been hired, who would you say wasn't worth it?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Dickhead1990 said:


> Fair play if he did. Mind you, Jericho's position in recruitment is what exactly?
> 
> Whilst I agree that some shouldn't have been hired, who would you say wasn't worth it?


Jericho might not have a spot in recruitment but odds are he got that from Khan directly.

Fair few ex WWE guys shouldn't have been signed. Not because they're not talented but because AEW didn't know what to do with them

Off the top of my head Brodie, Hardy, Hager, Cordona, Vickie Guerrero, JR, Sydal, Miro and I'm sure I'm forgetting several others


----------



## Dickhead1990

Chip Chipperson said:


> Jericho might not have a spot in recruitment but odds are he got that from Khan directly.
> 
> Fair few ex WWE guys shouldn't have been signed. Not because they're not talented but because AEW didn't know what to do with them
> 
> Off the top of my head Brodie, Hardy, Hager, Cordona, Vickie Guerrero, JR, Sydal, Miro and I'm sure I'm forgetting several others


I have to say that I actually agree with most of those.

Miro will prove us wrong with time though and JR does bring a lot with him outside of commentary. Also, I'm not aware that AEW ever signed Cardona or Vicky Guerrero to contracts (the former definitely isn't).

Some quick Maths:

According to the roster page, AEW has:
64 male wrestlers.
20 female wrestlers.
8 members of the broadcasting team.
5 Referees.

Also, it's worth noting that Jimmy Havoc was previously signed before his release, and was never in WWE.

As no one really cares about where the referees came from, I will discount them. Same with the announce team.

Of the wrestlers known more for their time in WWE (and not simply appearing in FCW or on an episode of Heat or Velocity in 2003 to never be seen again outside of the indie scene), you have:
14 male wrestlers (being generous and including Lance Archer and Trent)
3 female wrestlers that have performed in WWE, none for more than a short time.

Only 8 male wrestlers from this list did not debut at the beginning of AEW, of which I am including Jake Hager in this number, despite appearing very early on.

That makes 17 out of 84, which makes 20% of the roster.

So actually, they hired 8 WWE alumni as wrestlers after the first Dynamite, not around 40. This is why people get annoyed with these posts.


----------



## yeahright2

Dickhead1990 said:


> When and where did they say this? And how many signings did they make after?
> 
> If I recall, this came from an interview around the time of the mass culling from WWE. In which case, they did sign around 4 people.


I can´t remember when (or who) said it, but

Cody Rhodes, April 2019
"5% of WWE Talent Would Be Accepted into AEW; 'That May Increase'" (This was including himself, Moxley, Jericho and JR)
(For those that likes math, 5 % of the 200 wrestlers is 10 people))

Chris Jericho, January 2019 (Twitter)
It was in regards to his new company’s interest in some of the talent on North America’s top three promotions, claiming that AEW is only interested in 6-8 of their talents total. 
(again, 3 companies, 8 people in total, that´s roughly 3 from each place)

Chris Jericho, May 2019
"I don't think we're interested in getting a lot of so-called free agents. If you leave the WWE, it doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to take you in AEW. We don't want this to be TNA or WCW, where they were just taking everybody. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but there's too much talent out there with potential huge name value. That's what we want."

And now you´ll say "But Jericho doesn´t represent the company policy". Yes he does. He has been in so many interviews and on his Podcast that if he didn´t, they´d call him in and tell him what´s okay to say, and what´s not.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Dickhead1990 said:


> I have to say that I actually agree with most of those.
> 
> Miro will prove us wrong with time though and JR does bring a lot with him outside of commentary. Also, I'm not aware that AEW ever signed Cardona or Vicky Guerrero to contracts (the former definitely isn't).
> 
> Some quick Maths:
> 
> According to the roster page, AEW has:
> 64 male wrestlers.
> 20 female wrestlers.
> 8 members of the broadcasting team.
> 5 Referees.
> 
> Also, it's worth noting that Jimmy Havoc was previously signed before his release, and was never in WWE.
> 
> As no one really cares about where the referees came from, I will discount them. Same with the announce team.
> 
> Of the wrestlers known more for their time in WWE (and not simply appearing in FCW or on an episode of Heat or Velocity in 2003 to never be seen again outside of the indie scene), you have:
> 14 male wrestlers (being generous and including Lance Archer and Trent)
> 3 female wrestlers that have performed in WWE, none for more than a short time.
> 
> Only 8 male wrestlers from this list did not debut at the beginning of AEW, of which I am including Jake Hager in this number, despite appearing very early on.
> 
> That makes 17 out of 84, which makes 20% of the roster.
> 
> So actually, they hired 8 WWE alumni as wrestlers after the first Dynamite, not around 40. This is why people get annoyed with these posts.


I don't want to count them all but if you search you'll find a post where I took a count of every guy who had been under WWE contract at one point.

I believe the number was 39.


----------



## Ger

Dickhead1990 said:


> ...
> No need for the us vs them rhetoric here, I'm just a wrestling fan in general. ...


I read your last few postings here and I see what you trying, but many "vs"-people won`t listen anyway. If somebody spents his time to watch AEW, just because it is not WWE, let them do it. Everybody is free to watch the program. If people want to talk about that vs-stuff, it is a bit annoying, but we all can stand it. I am just bored to death, if people try to pull me or others into their companyX vs. companyY game and put us on "one side". I am not a author, investor, stock holder, wrestler, janitor or whatever of any wrestling company. Also I am not that much into that fan of companyZ concept. So why should me or others care about these drawers? 

To come back to the topic:
Obvisouly AEW in their first phase invested ressources into taking over wrestling fans from other companies and put out a lot of old names there. In my opinion AEW should stop that phase in 2021 and focus on a program to attract more and more "new" casual viewers. If that doesn`t work with some wrestlers, use other ones!
In my opinion it is a pretty good moment to try getting new viewers, cause Vince in WWE won`t change the next few months/years, so the chance WWE adapts to new ideas (in time) is pretty low.
And if somebody with comes with "wrestling is death" blabla .... fine ... I accept that opinion, but then this person calls all the threads in WF about these themes pointless from the very beginning.


----------



## Dickhead1990

yeahright2 said:


> I can´t remember when (or who) said it, but
> 
> Cody Rhodes, April 2019
> "5% of WWE Talent Would Be Accepted into AEW; 'That May Increase'" (This was including himself, Moxley, Jericho and JR)
> (For those that likes math, 5 % of the 200 wrestlers is 10 people))
> 
> Chris Jericho, January 2019 (Twitter)
> It was in regards to his new company’s interest in some of the talent on North America’s top three promotions, claiming that AEW is only interested in 6-8 of their talents total.
> (again, 3 companies, 8 people in total, that´s roughly 3 from each place)
> 
> Chris Jericho, May 2019
> "I don't think we're interested in getting a lot of so-called free agents. If you leave the WWE, it doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to take you in AEW. We don't want this to be TNA or WCW, where they were just taking everybody. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but there's too much talent out there with potential huge name value. That's what we want."
> 
> And now you´ll say "But Jericho doesn´t represent the company policy". Yes he does. He has been in so many interviews and on his Podcast that if he didn´t, they´d call him in and tell him what´s okay to say, and what´s not.


You likely hadn't seen the post I made above as you were typing this. Read in particular Cody's and Jericho's first quote and cross-reference with what I've posted.


----------



## yeahright2

Dickhead1990 said:


> I have to say that I actually agree with most of those.
> 
> Miro will prove us wrong with time though and JR does bring a lot with him outside of commentary. Also, I'm not aware that AEW ever signed Cardona or Vicky Guerrero to contracts (the former definitely isn't).
> 
> Some quick Maths:
> 
> According to the roster page, AEW has:
> 64 male wrestlers.
> 20 female wrestlers.
> 8 members of the broadcasting team.
> 5 Referees.
> 
> Also, it's worth noting that Jimmy Havoc was previously signed before his release, and was never in WWE.
> 
> As no one really cares about where the referees came from, I will discount them. Same with the announce team.
> 
> Of the wrestlers known more for their time in WWE (and not simply appearing in FCW or on an episode of Heat or Velocity in 2003 to never be seen again outside of the indie scene), you have:
> 14 male wrestlers (being generous and including Lance Archer and Trent)
> 3 female wrestlers that have performed in WWE, none for more than a short time.
> 
> Only 8 male wrestlers from this list did not debut at the beginning of AEW, of which I am including Jake Hager in this number, despite appearing very early on.
> 
> That makes 17 out of 84, which makes 20% of the roster.
> 
> So actually, they hired 8 WWE alumni as wrestlers after the first Dynamite, not around 40. This is why people get annoyed with these posts.


They have 84 contracted wrestlers? That is hilarious, because it leads me to another Jericho quote (from april 2019)
_“It’s different. We’re not doing it that way where anyone who doesn’t like what they’re doing in WWE is automatically guaranteed a job in AEW. We will look at every talent on an individual basis.There’s some guys we’d love to have in WWE, and there’s some guys we probably wouldn’t take. Obviously we haven’t even had a show yet and our roster is already very deep. When you talk about the Double or Nothing show, how many people can you book on that show? *If you have 60-70 guys, you end up with the same problem as WWE.”*_


----------



## The Wood

Dickhead1990 said:


> They've only existed for the short-term and don't appear to be going anywhere anytime soon. What you mean is that it isn't for you, not that it hasn't made an impact. If you don't like it, that's fine. May I suggest moving onto something that you do like, instead of hanging around and engaging in shadenfreud.
> 
> There is not and never has been high-brow wrestling. It's a fake sport at the end of the day.


Nope, I’m a wrestling devotee. And people moving on to other things isn’t good for wrestling either.


----------



## Dickhead1990

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't want to count them all but if you search you'll find a post where I took a count of every guy who had been under WWE contract at one point.
> 
> I believe the number was 39.


Did you count the likes of Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks in there? The likes of which weren't actually main roster wrestlers or known to the world prior to their indie runs? They're not really WWE guys, are they?


----------



## Dickhead1990

yeahright2 said:


> They have 84 contracted wrestlers? That is hilarious, because it leads me to another Jericho quote (from april 2019)
> _“It’s different. We’re not doing it that way where anyone who doesn’t like what they’re doing in WWE is automatically guaranteed a job in AEW. We will look at every talent on an individual basis.There’s some guys we’d love to have in WWE, and there’s some guys we probably wouldn’t take. Obviously we haven’t even had a show yet and our roster is already very deep. When you talk about the Double or Nothing show, how many people can you book on that show? *If you have 60-70 guys, you end up with the same problem as WWE.”*_


Aren't they launching a new show though? That makes sense if that's the case.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Dickhead1990 said:


> Did you count the likes of Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks in there? The likes of which weren't actually main roster wrestlers or known to the world prior to their indie runs? They're not really WWE guys, are they?


I counted anyone under developmental or full time contract

Kenny was counted, Bucks were not


----------



## Dickhead1990

Chip Chipperson said:


> I counted anyone under developmental or full time contract
> 
> Kenny was counted, Bucks were not


Well then that's not telling an accurate story is it? What's the point of counting people who never even made WWE television? Counting Kenny Omega as a "WWE" guy is really scraping the barrel.


----------



## yeahright2

Dickhead1990 said:


> Aren't they launching a new show though? That makes sense if that's the case.


And when will they launch that second show? They have that bloated roster problem NOW, and have had that problem for a very long time.


----------



## The Wood

It depends what you are counting them for. The average fan is not going to recognise Kenny Omega from WWE TV, but if the point is simply to count the people who have come from that system, then Kenny is definitely someone you should count...because he is from that system.


----------



## Dickhead1990

yeahright2 said:


> And when will they launch that second show? They have that bloated roster problem NOW, and have had that problem for a very long time.


It's been announced within the last few days to be happening early in 2021. The copyright has been filed with an announcement due in the coming weeks.


----------



## The Wood

Maybe if they ask WWE nicely they’ll let them have the Thunder name for free.

I’m excited to see if WWE counter-programs it. Any bets? NXT UK? Original show? I was thinking the other day that with WALTER, Ilja Dragunov and Tyler Bate you’ve got a pretty good starting roster there. But you could even send someone like Cesaro down. Maybe send Pete Dunne back, or send Burch & Lorcan back.

Could be potential for show with some amazing matches. Could end up doing better than NXT Prime, haha. Maybe Elevation/NXT UK becomes the hotter “war?”


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> It depends what you are counting them for. The average fan is not going to recognise Kenny Omega from WWE TV, but if the point is simply to count the people who have come from that system, then Kenny is definitely someone you should count...because he is from that system.


You're correct. I'm counting who came from the system and who was contracted to WWE.


----------



## The Wood

I think people forget just how much penetration WWE TV has. You might not think much of Trent Baretta’s WWE work, but he was up there for quite a few years. Most people would recognise him from there and not Ring of Honor, New Japan or even AEW.


----------



## yeahright2

The Wood said:


> I think people forget just how much penetration WWE TV has. You might not think much of Trent Baretta’s WWE work, but he was up there for quite a few years. Most people would recognise him from there and not Ring of Honor, New Japan or even AEW.


That´s 100% correct. As someone who watched ROH and TNA, I don´t even remember him being there, and my girlfriend still calls him Trent Baretta when he´s on AEW.


----------



## The Wood

Frankie Kazarian only appeared a few times on Velocity, but that show was in many different countries around the world. It may seem insignificant, but I think people would be shocked to discover how many people know him from WWE.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> Frankie Kazarian only appeared a few times on Velocity, but that show was in many different countries around the world. It may seem insignificant, but I think people would be shocked to discover how many people know him from WWE.


He was promoted as a former WWE star on his tour of Australia in 2005 despite being a former TNA X Division and Tag Champion.


----------



## yeahright2

Chip Chipperson said:


> He was promoted as a former WWE star on his tour of Australia in 2005 despite being a former TNA X Division and Tag Champion.


What? that´s kinda funny


----------



## Chip Chipperson

yeahright2 said:


> What? that´s kinda funny


Velocity aired here and TNA didn't so I suppose that's why they went that way


----------



## The Wood

I’m not surprised. That WWE name. It draws people in.


----------



## kamaro011

WWE at this point is become synonymously as Pro Wrestling itself.

You have casual people that have few knowledge about wrestling and show them AEW, ROH, TNA, etc. Those people will at first glance is going to point those show "Is this a WWE?".

That's how deep WWE TV penetration was and i'm not saying this to be a compliment for them. It's already near proven fact by now.


----------



## alex0816

Firefromthegods said:


> Come on mate don't go that far.


told you shit like that would be said, "just a discussion" right?


Dickhead1990 said:


> Did you count the likes of Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks in there? The likes of which weren't actually main roster wrestlers or known to the world prior to their indie runs? They're not really WWE guys, are they?


of course he did. Lance Archer worked for wwe 11 years ago for like 4 months. im sure everyone who watches dynamite is like "hey, i remember him from wwe ecw in 2009!!!" cause he's the most wwe guy ever apparently. it's also a problem if you were a ref in wwe at any point


----------



## CM Buck

alex0816 said:


> told you shit like that would be said, "just a discussion" right?
> 
> 
> of course he did. Lance Archer worked for wwe 11 years ago for like 4 months. im sure everyone who watches dynamite is like "hey, i remember him from wwe ecw in 2009!!!" cause he's the most wwe guy ever apparently. it's also a problem if you were a ref in wwe at any point


And I handled it. I'm not going to crack on people having controversial opinions. I will if they try to imply I should be embarrassed to watch aew. He didn't single me out but I don't like shots at fanbases. The company itself is fine.

I don't care about Tony and I'm sure they don't sweat some anonymous dude on a message board.


----------



## The Wood

alex0816 said:


> told you shit like that would be said, "just a discussion" right?
> 
> 
> of course he did. Lance Archer worked for wwe 11 years ago for like 4 months. im sure everyone who watches dynamite is like "hey, i remember him from wwe ecw in 2009!!!" cause he's the most wwe guy ever apparently. it's also a problem if you were a ref in wwe at any point


I think you'd be surprised.


----------



## Sidloo

*
Bryan Alverez blaming who for the nba debacle take a guess
A. WWE
B.WWE
C.WWE
D.TK and Jerico*




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1343288863486304258


----------



## hardcorewrasslin

La Parka said:


> Every small business in Australia is a failure.
> 
> Ive never even heard of any of them!


Youre telling me you haven’t ever heard of Lube Mobile?


----------



## The Wood

hardcorewrasslin said:


> Youre telling me you haven’t ever heard of Lube Mobile?


If he hasn’t, that’s going to be awkward.




Sidloo said:


> *Bryan Alverez blaming who for the nba debacle take a guess
> A. WWE
> B.WWE
> C.WWE
> D.TK and Jerico*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1343288863486304258


I actually like Garrett. I don’t think the point he’s making is insane. The WWE have run a lot of people off from wrestling. But so is AEW.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle

The Wood said:


> How do you do it? Cop-out answer, good wrestling. Lol. Guys who look like stars, talk shit, then beat the shit out of each other. Too much effort is put into making wrestling something other than wrestling.


What is good wrestling though really? especially through the eyes of someone on NBA twitter? I mean, NJPW is the best of the best in ring wise but has zero casual appeal, then on the other end of the spectrum theres something like Lucha Underground - very character/story driven, highly stylised etc......and it averaged like 100k viewers its entire existence. NWA Powerrr had imo the perfect ratio of in ring/promos, the promo quality was great and it was full of rugged, credible tough looking wrestlers.....but their first episode has gotten 670k views on Youtube over the course of a year plus. Their is just no secret formula for success with this stuff, quality doesnt guarantee success unfortunately. 




Chip Chipperson said:


> Well for one we were promised a serious sports style approach with only the best of the WWE being signed


If they actually went for a serious sports style approach the ratings would probably be half what they are now, or less. They didnt have the right kind of roster for that style of wrestling in the first place anyway. As for the signings, Jericho, Mox, Cody, Rusev, Matt, Pac, Brodie (RIP) isnt too shabby imho, as far as ex-WWE names.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Lesnar Turtle said:


> What is good wrestling though really? especially through the eyes of someone on NBA twitter? I mean, NJPW is the best of the best in ring wise but has zero casual appeal, then on the other end of the spectrum theres something like Lucha Underground - very character/story driven, highly stylised etc......and it averaged like 100k viewers its entire existence. NWA Powerrr had imo the perfect ratio of in ring/promos, the promo quality was great and it was full of rugged, credible tough looking wrestlers.....but their first episode has gotten 670k views on Youtube over the course of a year plus. Their is just no secret formula for success with this stuff, quality doesnt guarantee success unfortunately.


NJPW has limited appeal because Americans (And other countries also) struggle to get into foreign talents. For example, in the USA it's obviously easier to get behind someone who grew up in Oklahoma and grew up idolising Stone Cold as opposed to someone who grew up in Osaka and grew up idolising Jushin Liger.

I think the perfect wrestling show for an American audience would be a similar sports style approach to New Japan with the hard hits, unique moves, protecting stars etc mixed in with NWA Power and their ability to tell stories, do video packages, the squash matches etc.

As for why NWA Power hasn't had success, simply put the star power hasn't been there yet. The biggest star to have appeared on Power is 57 year old Scott Steiner.


----------



## The Wood

Good wrestling follows the fundamentals of what we know works. Other media has hijacked so much from pro-wrestling and it still works. Wrestling just has to overthink everything and be self-conscious about what it is.

Guys who talk about kicking with flare and then go out and kick ass. It isn’t really hard. New Japan doesn’t have the promos for western audiences and obviously isn’t as accessible as something on TNT in English. Lucha Underground had the silly, supernatural stuff, which is always going to tie a string around your finger.

You take the the in-ring of a New Japan or ROH and then mix it with the promos of an NWA and you’ve got a pretty good blend of what fans of pure pro-wrestling are going to be attracted to. This is largely what the lapsed fan is missing. That and stars.


----------



## Dickhead1990

alex0816 said:


> of course he did. Lance Archer worked for wwe 11 years ago for like 4 months. im sure everyone who watches dynamite is like "hey, i remember him from wwe ecw in 2009!!!" cause he's the most wwe guy ever apparently. it's also a problem if you were a ref in wwe at any point


I'm sure that most of us know him more as Lance Hoyt from TNA in his underwhelming run. The team with Jimmy Rave and Christy Hemme before he left anyone? I know, I'd rather not remember either! I'd still count him anyway as he did actually make TV and have a very slight push. I'm not sure how I associate him in all fairness, he's a tricky one to put a label on.



The Wood said:


> Frankie Kazarian only appeared a few times on Velocity, but that show was in many different countries around the world. It may seem insignificant, but I think people would be shocked to discover how many people know him from WWE.


You're right, I for one first properly noticed him there. With that said, he was a TNA guy before that though.



The Wood said:


> I think people forget just how much penetration WWE TV has. You might not think much of Trent Baretta’s WWE work, but he was up there for quite a few years. Most people would recognise him from there and not Ring of Honor, New Japan or even AEW.


Agreed, hence I included him.



The Wood said:


> Maybe if they ask WWE nicely they’ll let them have the Thunder name for free.
> 
> I’m excited to see if WWE counter-programs it. Any bets? NXT UK? Original show? I was thinking the other day that with WALTER, Ilja Dragunov and Tyler Bate you’ve got a pretty good starting roster there. But you could even send someone like Cesaro down. Maybe send Pete Dunne back, or send Burch & Lorcan back.
> 
> Could be potential for show with some amazing matches. Could end up doing better than NXT Prime, haha. Maybe Elevation/NXT UK becomes the hotter “war?”


I would actually love NXT UK to get further exposure and investment. I don't have time to watch it myself, but I have followed a few of the ones on there at some of the UK indies like WhatCulture Wrestling and IPW.



The Wood said:


> It depends what you are counting them for. The average fan is not going to recognise Kenny Omega from WWE TV, but if the point is simply to count the people who have come from that system, then Kenny is definitely someone you should count...because he is from that system.


Being that he lasted less than a year and was already featured on indie shows prior (albeit small local ones), this is a tenuous one. Counting Kenny Omega as a legit WWE product is like someone beginning a degree course and dropping out by the first reading week - they don't really count.


----------



## Dickhead1990

Chip Chipperson said:


> NJPW has limited appeal because Americans (And other countries also) struggle to get into foreign talents. For example, in the USA it's obviously easier to get behind someone who grew up in Oklahoma and grew up idolising Stone Cold as opposed to someone who grew up in Osaka and grew up idolising Jushin Liger.
> 
> I think the perfect wrestling show for an American audience would be a similar sports style approach to New Japan with the hard hits, unique moves, protecting stars etc mixed in with NWA Power and their ability to tell stories, do video packages, the squash matches etc.
> 
> As for why NWA Power hasn't had success, simply put the star power hasn't been there yet. The biggest star to have appeared on Power is 57 year old Scott Steiner.


You're spot on with the first point.

I feel that NWA's biggest problem is if people actually know it exists and where to find it. If you're anything short of a determined hardcore fan, it doesn't really appear anywhere.


----------



## bdon

AEW is almost like a parody of professional wrestling. It is an all too self-aware promotion for the geeks to feel good for enjoying “silly ol’ pro wrestling”.

And I say that as someone who DOES defend AEW when they deserve it and do great things.


----------



## JayBull

Jericho can pretend like hes taking it in his stride as much as he wants, hes being lazy with his physique and he knows it.


----------



## RapShepard

Chip Chipperson said:


> As for why NWA Power hasn't had success, simply put the star power hasn't been there yet. The biggest star to have appeared on Power is 57 year old Scott Steiner.


I think Powers biggest issue is it comes off like a parody due to the aesthetic. It goes from "lol they're making fun of old school wrestling" to "oh no they really think this looks good" fairly quickly. Which sucks because they have interesting talent, but it's too hard to take serious.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RapShepard said:


> I think Powers biggest issue is it comes off like a parody due to the aesthetic. It goes from "lol they're making fun of old school wrestling" to "oh no they really think this looks good" fairly quickly. Which sucks because they have interesting talent, but it's too hard to take serious.


I love small building wrestling so the look appeals to me but I do know most fans consider anything outside of an arena small time


----------



## RapShepard

Chip Chipperson said:


> I love small building wrestling so the look appeals to me but I do know most fans consider anything outside of an arena small time


While small building is an issue, I think it's the set that's the bigger issue. It justs too on the nose of what it's trying to call back to.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RapShepard said:


> While small building is an issue, I think it's the set that's the bigger issue. It justs too on the nose of what it's trying to call back to.


Yeah I could see it turning people off who aren't fond of studio wrestling.

Personally I love it


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Dickhead1990 said:


> They've only existed for the short-term and don't appear to be going anywhere anytime soon. What you mean is that it isn't for you, not that it hasn't made an impact. If you don't like it, that's fine. May I suggest moving onto something that you do like, instead of hanging around and engaging in shadenfreud.
> 
> There is not and never has been high-brow wrestling. It's a fake sport at the end of the day.


Is it just an Australian thing not realizing wrestling isn't seen as cool and hasn't been since the 90s?

The myth of the millions of sleeper fans waiting for the right product to emerge is utter nonsense.At the end of the day it's a predetermined fight with poor acting.....or soap opera with body slams it has a very limited appeal to people outside the bubble.

I dont care if you had the most realistic pro wrestling out there.....its not going to do much of anything.


----------



## jroc72191

Chip Chipperson said:


> I remember about ten years ago fans would avoid saying fake to not offend the wrestlers.
> 
> Now every fan points it out daily to excuse things.



well when the wrestlers themselves shit on kayfabe and the bookers do too by putting the belt on people who have no business having it (cough riho) then thats an issue too


----------



## $Dolladrew$

LMFAO

if they put a serious sports style wrestling on TNT it would be doing much worse then AEW.Let me reiterate EVERYONE KNOWS ITS FAKE!!!!! Trying to come off as a real fight would only be laughed at as there is real fighting readily available.

There is no "cool" style of wrestling the WWE has contributed to the negative outlook on wrestling with its underwhelming product for decades.WWE is seen as the epitome of wrestling to the vast majority of people,so that pretty much should tell you everything with the garbage they've featured.

Wrestling will never get back to its astronomical numbers during its peak, much like the UFC will never regain its astronomical numbers either.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

$Dolladrew$ said:


> LMFAO
> 
> if they put a serious sports style wrestling on TNT it would be doing much worse then AEW.Let me reiterate EVERYONE KNOWS ITS FAKE!!!!! Trying to come off as a real fight would only be laughed at as there is real fighting readily available.
> 
> There is no "cool" style of wrestling the WWE has contributed to the negative outlook on wrestling with its underwhelming product for decades.WWE is seen as the epitome of wrestling to the vast majority of people,so that pretty much should tell you everything with the garbage they've featured.
> 
> Wrestling will never get back to its astronomical numbers during its peak, much like the UFC will never regain its astronomical numbers either.


The Walking Dead is scripted entertainment but whilst fighting a pack of zombies you never saw the characters break character and start fucking around, did you?

Wrestling needs to suspend disbelief better. Yes, most people know it's scripted (fake is offensive) but a lot of promotions around the world just take the piss. There's a promotion here in Aus doing intergender matches, wrestlers putting others to sleep with fairy dust, teleportation, wrestling wolf in one segment and doing commentary the next. Know what they draw? 50-80 in a major city mainly made up of friends and family because people don't want to see wrestlers taking the piss


----------



## Dickhead1990

Chip Chipperson said:


> The Walking Dead is scripted entertainment but whilst fighting a pack of zombies you never saw the characters break character and start fucking around, did you?
> 
> Wrestling needs to suspend disbelief better. Yes, most people know it's scripted (fake is offensive) but a lot of promotions around the world just take the piss. There's a promotion here in Aus doing intergender matches, wrestlers putting others to sleep with fairy dust, teleportation, wrestling wolf in one segment and doing commentary the next. Know what they draw? 50-80 in a major city mainly made up of friends and family because people don't want to see wrestlers taking the piss


The Walking Dead is a serious and high budget production series though. I agree that there should be more of an element of belief, but I see the banterous aspects as reading the room personally.


----------



## The Wood

Dickhead1990 said:


> I'm sure that most of us know him more as Lance Hoyt from TNA in his underwhelming run. The team with Jimmy Rave and Christy Hemme before he left anyone? I know, I'd rather not remember either! I'd still count him anyway as he did actually make TV and have a very slight push. I'm not sure how I associate him in all fairness, he's a tricky one to put a label on.
> 
> 
> You're right, I for one first properly noticed him there. With that said, he was a TNA guy before that though.
> 
> 
> Agreed, hence I included him.
> 
> 
> I would actually love NXT UK to get further exposure and investment. I don't have time to watch it myself, but I have followed a few of the ones on there at some of the UK indies like WhatCulture Wrestling and IPW.
> 
> 
> Being that he lasted less than a year and was already featured on indie shows prior (albeit small local ones), this is a tenuous one. Counting Kenny Omega as a legit WWE product is like someone beginning a degree course and dropping out by the first reading week - they don't really count.


I’m sure most of us know him from TNA too, but most people familiar with wrestling probably don’t even know TNA existed. We’ve got to be careful thinking our perspective is widespread.

When it comes to determining whether someone is a TNA guy or WWE guy, it’s best to take the biggest promotion and just go with that one as a career high. It’s not as useful looking at where a guy was at first or for how long.

This is going to be weird for people to hear, but it’s very likely that more people know Trinity from her WWE run than her TNA run. For examlle



$Dolladrew$ said:


> Is it just an Australian thing not realizing wrestling isn't seen as cool and hasn't been since the 90s?
> 
> The myth of the millions of sleeper fans waiting for the right product to emerge is utter nonsense.At the end of the day it's a predetermined fight with poor acting.....or soap opera with body slams it has a very limited appeal to people outside the bubble.
> 
> I dont care if you had the most realistic pro wrestling out there.....its not going to do much of anything.


These people aren’t actively waiting, but if the right product comes along? Yep, they absolutely could get on board. You seem some of them try it when The Rock comes back, Goldberg comes back or there’s a strong lead-in.

The products, as they are presented, don’t hook people. It’s that simple. And the reason they don’t is because of their insincerity. We have feedback on this, as well as plenty of veterans who understand how this works that have been screaming it from the rooftops for years.

So many people are like “We’ve tried nothing and nothing’s worked.” At least try a semi-sincere pres



$Dolladrew$ said:


> LMFAO
> 
> if they put a serious sports style wrestling on TNT it would be doing much worse then AEW.Let me reiterate EVERYONE KNOWS ITS FAKE!!!!! Trying to come off as a real fight would only be laughed at as there is real fighting readily available.
> 
> There is no "cool" style of wrestling the WWE has contributed to the negative outlook on wrestling with its underwhelming product for decades.WWE is seen as the epitome of wrestling to the vast majority of people,so that pretty much should tell you everything with the garbage they've featured.
> 
> Wrestling will never get back to its astronomical numbers during its peak, much like the UFC will never regain its astronomical numbers either.


It’s not about whether or not people know it’s fake. It’s about whether or not you have the dignity, pride and integrity to put forward a product that doesn’t feel the need to bash audience members over the head with this.

I know Tom Holland isn’t really Spider-Man either. It doesn’t mean you drop all pretenses of Peter Parker.

Actually try and challenge WWE’s presentation of pro-wrestling instead of just meekly confirming it.


----------



## Dickhead1990

The Wood said:


> I’m sure most of us know him from TNA too, but most people familiar with wrestling probably don’t even know TNA existed. We’ve got to be careful thinking our perspective is widespread.
> 
> When it comes to determining whether someone is a TNA guy or WWE guy, it’s best to take the biggest promotion and just go with that one as a career high. It’s not as useful looking at where a guy was at first or for how long.
> 
> This is going to be weird for people to hear, but it’s very likely that more people know Trinity from her WWE run than her TNA run. For examlle


So then that leaves the whole claim about ex-WWE stars as a bit of a flawed argument then really. I'm sure we could name movie stars who are more famous for smaller movie roles, rather than minor appearances in larger productions. It is what you make of it at the end of the day.

I think the bigger question is whether that talent is a good pick, regardless of where they're from. Overall, the answer here is yes, with some exceptions. I personally think some of their indie choices are far more sketchy.


----------



## The Wood

Dickhead1990 said:


> So then that leaves the whole claim about ex-WWE stars as a bit of a flawed argument then really. I'm sure we could name movie stars who are more famous for smaller movie roles, rather than minor appearances in larger productions. It is what you make of it at the end of the day.
> 
> I think the bigger question is whether that talent is a good pick, regardless of where they're from. Overall, the answer here is yes, with some exceptions. I personally think some of their indie choices are far more sketchy.


No, it doesn’t. It just means that a cup of coffee in the WWE is more notable than a long stint anywhere else to everyone else except the most hardcore fan. That’s kind of the point.

Yeah, good talent can come from anywhere, and the WWE certainly instills a level of professionalism and polish in guys. That’s not the point either. It’s when you say “We only want 5” and then take 35. It’s when you claim to reject the style or the philosophy of taking guys with built-in recognition and then doing exactly the opposite.

For what it’s worth, yes, FTR are absolutely the best tag team AEW has. But don’t tell me that you don’t value the WWE’s tag teams in one breath and then poach your best from their system. It’s pissing on my leg and telling me it’s raining.


----------



## Dickhead1990

The Wood said:


> No, it doesn’t. It just means that a cup of coffee in the WWE is more notable than a long stint anywhere else to everyone else except the most hardcore fan. That’s kind of the point.
> 
> Yeah, good talent can come from anywhere, and the WWE certainly instils a level of professionalism and polish in guys. That’s not the point either. It’s when you say “We only want 5” and then take 35. It’s when you claim to reject the style or the philosophy of taking guys with built-in recognition and then doing exactly the opposite.
> 
> For what it’s worth, yes, FTR are absolutely the best tag team AEW has. But don’t tell me that you don’t value the WWE’s tag teams in one breath and then poach your best from their system. It’s pissing on my leg and telling me it’s raining.


The impression that I get from BTE is that it's not a problem with WWE's talent, but their morals and monopoly. They've been putting over FTR for years now with the whole Fuck The Revival thing. Furthermore, they also had that appearance with New Day. I think it's best to consider what the actual issue is here rather than blanketing all ex-WWE talent with the whole "What's Cohn Jena doing in the Impact Zone?" mindset.

It's also worth noting the constant threads all around the internet asking who everybody wants in AEW, which seems to appear weekly! For months, people wanted Rusev. He appears and it's suddenly the worst thing ever. Granted, his booking has been terrible, but he's there after everyone asked for him. This is why we can't have nice things!


----------



## The Wood

Dickhead1990 said:


> The impression that I get from BTE is that it's not a problem with WWE's talent, but their morals and monopoly. They've been putting over FTR for years now with the whole Fuck The Revival thing. Furthermore, they also had that appearance with New Day. I think it's best to consider what the actual issue is here rather than blanketing all ex-WWE talent with the whole "What's Cohn Jena doing in the Impact Zone?" mindset.
> 
> It's also worth noting the constant threads all around the internet asking who everybody wants in AEW, which seems to appear weekly! For months, people wanted Rusev. He appears and it's suddenly the worst thing ever. Granted, his booking has been terrible, but he's there after everyone asked for him. This is why we can't have nice things!


Well, we can’t have nice things because AEW ruins them. No one was calling for this parody of Rusev. Don’t make that fans’ fault.

Yeah, exactly. I’m not saying it’s the talent either. That’s a smokescreen people go to when they ignore that it is the alleged morals and principle of the matter. Which they clearly don’t give a shit about because they betray it.

They play right into the “We’re not WCW or TNA — we know better” and then make plays for Edge and Goldberg, and bring in everyone from Shawn Spears to Matt Cardona to Tay Conti to Mike Chiota to Shane Helms.

I’m not saying that they SHOULDN’T have. I’m saying that they said they WOULDN’T then they DID.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Chip Chipperson said:


> The Walking Dead is scripted entertainment but whilst fighting a pack of zombies you never saw the characters break character and start fucking around, did you?
> 
> Wrestling needs to suspend disbelief better. Yes, most people know it's scripted (fake is offensive) but a lot of promotions around the world just take the piss. There's a promotion here in Aus doing intergender matches, wrestlers putting others to sleep with fairy dust, teleportation, wrestling wolf in one segment and doing commentary the next. Know what they draw? 50-80 in a major city mainly made up of friends and family because people don't want to see wrestlers taking the piss


Like I've said I agree AEW can do a better job of putting the product together more cohesively,and give off a better presentation. 

But I also think that a completely sport modeled promotion would fail miserably in comparison with AEWs current status. Like I've already mentioned thinking simply making AEW realistic as possible would garner all these new fans is simply overestimating the presence of wrestling in the current culture. Wrestling is super niche.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

The Wood said:


> I’m sure most of us know him from TNA too, but most people familiar with wrestling probably don’t even know TNA existed. We’ve got to be careful thinking our perspective is widespread.
> 
> When it comes to determining whether someone is a TNA guy or WWE guy, it’s best to take the biggest promotion and just go with that one as a career high. It’s not as useful looking at where a guy was at first or for how long.
> 
> This is going to be weird for people to hear, but it’s very likely that more people know Trinity from her WWE run than her TNA run. For examlle
> 
> 
> 
> These people aren’t actively waiting, but if the right product comes along? Yep, they absolutely could get on board. You seem some of them try it when The Rock comes back, Goldberg comes back or there’s a strong lead-in.
> 
> The products, as they are presented, don’t hook people. It’s that simple. And the reason they don’t is because of their insincerity. We have feedback on this, as well as plenty of veterans who understand how this works that have been screaming it from the rooftops for years.
> 
> So many people are like “We’ve tried nothing and nothing’s worked.” At least try a semi-sincere pres
> 
> 
> 
> It’s not about whether or not people know it’s fake. It’s about whether or not you have the dignity, pride and integrity to put forward a product that doesn’t feel the need to bash audience members over the head with this.
> 
> I know Tom Holland isn’t really Spider-Man either. It doesn’t mean you drop all pretenses of Peter Parker.
> 
> Actually try and challenge WWE’s presentation of pro-wrestling instead of just meekly confirming it.


Like I responded to wood I agree the presentation could absolutely be better but I dont think AEW would be anymore popular if it was nothing but serious wrestling.IMO it has to do with getting more storylines going but the 2nd show will help with that and DARK is going to be split to help with mid card and low card story's like we've seen the waiting room used as a vehicle for this. IE SCU storyline and promo,spears and scorpio sky etc.

The rock will garner millions of viewers because he transcends wrestling.....at this point more people know him from movies then wrestling he is a megastar.


----------



## bdon

They did better ratings when they were mainly sports-based. COVID happened, and Cody and Jericho turned the company into full on sports entertainment bullshit.


----------



## qntntgood

Lesnar Turtle said:


> What appeals to todays audience though?
> 
> Dont get me wrong, theres definitely things AEW could do better, for one the matches on Dynamite tend to be too long and too tag focused. But I cant see any reliable way to consistently push the numbers past the 1m mark right now, short of going full WCW and making unrealistically big signings like Cena, Brock, Rock, Punk etc.


Wrestling has always been about large then life character's,let these display their personality more and write a story around that.get the people who have the mainstream look,and clean up the in ring work.


----------



## intelligent person

johnmangala said:


> Those are opinions.
> 
> NBA is definitely mainstream, just because it isnt the golden years doesnt say anything. Your jaded ass means shit.
> 
> Mcu could be for babies but would still be mainstream.
> 
> Both are better than AEW and WWE.


nope lol stop lyin dawg


----------



## $Dolladrew$

bdon said:


> They did better ratings when they were mainly sports-based. COVID happened, and Cody and Jericho turned the company into full on sports entertainment bullshit.


So they did better numbers pre covid .....hmmmm lol no shit.


----------



## bdon

$Dolladrew$ said:


> So they did better numbers pre covid .....hmmmm lol no shit.


They did better numbers after Cody and Jericho stopped being so heavily featured. That was the point. The shows took a nosedive when Cody began having 3 minute entrances plus a 20 minute match and a minute and a half celebration of his win afterwards.

Cody is NOT interesting.


----------



## Wolf Mark

I have to say I get a scary TNA vibe from this. I remember casuals saying this about Hogan in TNA in 2010.


----------



## Claro De Luna

bdon said:


> They did better numbers after Cody and Jericho stopped being so heavily featured. That was the point. The shows took a nosedive when Cody began having 3 minute entrances plus a 20 minute match and a minute and a half celebration of his win afterwards.
> 
> Cody is NOT interesting.


That's your opinion. YouTube would say different.


----------



## bdon

Claro De Luna said:


> That's your opinion. YouTube would say different.


Children playing with toys make millions off their YouTube feed.

Doesn’t make what they’re doing interesting. Just means they found something to corner the ADD market.


----------



## Shleppy

I was thinking maybe Jericho is this heavy for a reason so he can look like a big heel and if he does a face turn he gets on a diet and becomes much leaner like he was only a few years ago

I don’t like seeing him this fat he just doesn’t look healthy


----------



## The Wood

Jericho’s not doing this on purpose. If he did, he wouldn’t be sucking his gut in every photo he takes with a woman half his age.


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> Jericho’s not doing this on purpose. If he did, he wouldn’t be sucking his gut in every photo he takes with a woman half his age.


The legend returns.


----------



## Klitschko

The Wood said:


> Jericho’s not doing this on purpose. If he did, he wouldn’t be sucking his gut in every photo he takes with a woman half his age.


Savage. Wood came back with a vengeance lol.


----------



## The Wood

Klitschko said:


> Savage. Wood came back with a vengeance lol.


Appreciate the recognition, haha. But am I wrong?

The guy photoshops his forehead and injects himself with Botox. If he was getting ugly on purpose he wouldn’t do that. He’s lost control. Whether that’s due to excessive drinking or age and injuries is up to debate. But that whole “I’m a heel in Japan” shtick is utter shit. Where’s Jericho on the Wrestle Kingdom card?


----------



## zaz102

The Wood said:


> Appreciate the recognition, haha. But am I wrong?
> 
> The guy photoshops his forehead and injects himself with Botox. If he was getting ugly on purpose he wouldn’t do that. He’s lost control. Whether that’s due to excessive drinking or age and injuries is up to debate. But that whole “I’m a heel in Japan” shtick is utter shit. Where’s Jericho on the Wrestle Kingdom card?


Has any wrestler ever gotten out of shape for an angle lol? I know actors do it in movies and TV, but I don't think i ever heard of anything like that in wrestling.


----------



## 30yearfan

You consider those people MAIN STREAM ??!! LMAO OK. 👍🏾


----------



## somerandomfan

zaz102 said:


> Has any wrestler ever gotten out of shape for an angle lol? I know actors do it in movies and TV, but I don't think i ever heard of anything like that in wrestling.


Closest example coming to mind is Yokozuna trying to gain more weight.


----------



## JasmineAEW

No, pro wrestling isn’t mainstream, and that is perfectly fine with me. If the sad passing of Brodie Lee should tell us anything, it’s that pro wrestling is a community - and a rather close-knit one at that.

My non-wrestling friends never heard of Brodie Lee or Luke Harper. But that’s okay because they’re not part of the community. I think wrestling is like a brotherhood/sisterhood or fraternity for the wrestlers themselves. They alone really understand and appreciate what it means to be in their profession. They know the sacrifices and hardships and bonds that they share. And although we are on the outside looking in, we fans are also a part of this unique community. Our financial support, viewership, attendance, etc. are part of the lifeblood that keeps the industry afloat.

I like being a part of this community - I’ve been a fan for almost my entire life, since I was a little kid - and I could not possibly care less what “mainstream” people think. When I attend an indy wrestling show, I actually feel more of a kinship with the fans there than I do at a large WWE show. I like being among the passionate, hardcore fans.


----------



## alex0816

is this still a topic? goddam


----------



## The Wood

alex0816 said:


> is this still a topic? goddam


Why do you try to make people feel bad for caring about what they care about? Just because you don’t see a topic worth discussing doesn’t mean that others don’t. Jericho getting dragged by sports fans is an interesting story, especially as it runs contrary to the self-indulgent narratives of wrestling fans who act like the guy is still untouchable.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> Why do you try to make people feel bad for caring about what they care about? Just because you don’t see a topic worth discussing doesn’t mean that others don’t. Jericho getting dragged by sports fans is an interesting story, especially as it runs contrary to the self-indulgent narratives of wrestling fans who act like the guy is still untouchable.


This topic has had 17 THOUSAND views and over 600 posts. Many people care.


----------



## VIP86

i heard that Jericho took some pictures of his abs after this clusterfuck 😁
so clearly he cares, despite some people denying that it matters


----------



## Klitschko

Damn, 31 pages for Jericho's gut. This is as many as a weekly Dynamite thread on a really good day.


----------



## La Parka

Chip Chipperson said:


> This topic has had 17 THOUSAND views and over 600 posts. Many people care.


When it’s competing with such gems as “isn’t Tony Khan the greatest human ever?” Is it any surprise?


----------



## CM Buck

La Parka said:


> When it’s competing with such gems as “isn’t Tony Khan the greatest human ever?” Is it any surprise?


What's wrong with a positive thread praising Tony for last week's show and the effort he put in for the kids and lees wife?

Don't tell me you hate positive discussion


----------



## The Wood

Firefromthegods said:


> What's wrong with a positive thread praising Tony for last week's show and the effort he put in for the kids and lees wife?
> 
> Don't tell me you hate positive discussion


I don’t think it’s so much the positivism as much as it is the realism, or lack thereof. There’s a tiny line of difference between “I enjoyed that show” and “that person who put that show together is undoubtedly a good person.”


----------



## CM Buck

The Wood said:


> I don’t think it’s so much the positivism as much as it is the realism, or lack thereof. There’s a tiny line of difference between “I enjoyed that show” and “that person who put that show together is undoubtedly a good person.”


Fair enough


----------



## JeSeGaN

La Parka said:


> When it’s competing with such gems as “isn’t Tony Khan the greatest human ever?” Is it any surprise?


Sheesh, that thread is one huge circle jerk.

Also, welcome back @The Wood. Your posts have been sorely missed.


----------



## La Parka

Firefromthegods said:


> What's wrong with a positive thread praising Tony for last week's show and the effort he put in for the kids and lees wife?
> 
> Don't tell me you hate positive discussion


It would be the equivalent of me posting a thread of Vince McMahon doing charity work and then saying he must be this amazing person and Raw is just amazing.

Its a nice gesture but let’s not act like Tony Khan is the first person to do something nice for someone.


----------



## The Wood

La Parka said:


> It would be the equivalent of me posting a thread of Vince McMahon doing charity work and then saying he must be this amazing person and Raw is just amazing.
> 
> Its a nice gesture but let’s not act like Tony Khan is the first person to do something nice for someone.


Especially when it is so public.

I’m not saying he didn’t give a shit about Brodie Lee. But it’s always bugged me when people give celebrities (or quasi-celebrities) credit for potentially performative acts of kindness.

Public figures perform. It isn’t inherently a bad thing either, so please, AEW public defenders, please don’t try and turn this into me shitting on TK. But it isn’t necessarily without benefit for them to do so either.

Jericho is performing too. And I think that is why his mainstream exposure failures are more interesting than a lot of his actual current wrestling stuff. Jericho always portrays himself as in control and a master. But he doesn’t have control of this. At all.

It’s a very interesting divide between wrestling fans, who largely still worship the ground he walks on for chewing scenery and what he has done previously, and more casual viewers who see the fat old man and make wrestling fans look extraordinarily out of touch.


----------



## DammitChrist

I guess that I must've missed the part where those were missed :aries2



Firefromthegods said:


> What's wrong with a positive thread praising Tony for last week's show and the effort he put in for the kids and lees wife?
> 
> Don't tell me you hate positive discussion


Hey, I wasn't kidding about earlier when I mentioned how there's plenty of vibes that want this place to be a negative circle-jerk. God forbid someone decides to make a positive discussion


----------



## Brad Boyd

I love how this thread is still active. I really don't see why some are calling this the "fat shaming thread" Jerichos weight was a trending topic it warrants threads like these.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chris Jericho's weight really has nothing to do with the overall product though.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> Chris Jericho's weight really has nothing to do with the overall product though.


It has to do with perception.

Why do you think AEW and most TV shows in general try to start out hot? Law and Order for example usually starts with the crime that they're going to solve for the night being committed or a soap opera might kick off with a recap of the drama from the previous nights episode or even a sports game is going to kick things off with a video package getting you hyped up for the upcoming game.

You can have the best wrestling show on earth but if people tune in and the first thing they see are old out of shape stars who haven't been relevant to them in a decade or more it's off putting and it's unlikely they'll tune back in the next week. WWE had the same issue also, had an extra million or so but retained barely any.


----------



## 30yearfan

What's funny is this topic shows what the"mainstream" thinks of WWE. Admitting they stopped watching over ten years ago lol so basically WWE is played out 🤔


----------



## $Dolladrew$

30yearfan said:


> What's funny is this topic shows what the"mainstream" thinks of WWE. Admitting they stopped watching over ten years ago lol so basically WWE is played out 🤔


Yes this is a reflection on the entire industry for sure.


----------



## Ozell Gray

30yearfan said:


> What's funny is this topic shows what the"mainstream" thinks of WWE. Admitting they stopped watching over ten years ago lol so basically WWE is played out 🤔


No it’s how the mainstream sees AEW which is why they called it a knockoff WWE.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Ozell Gray said:


> No it’s how the mainstream sees AEW which is why they called it a knockoff WWE.


Any pro wrestling seen by non wrestling viewers would be considered a knockoff WWE much like any MMA promotion seen by non fans is seen as knockoff UFC.

This is a testament to the marketing department and the fact both companys have been recognized as the premier ORG for decades.The laughing at wrestling isn't limited to AEW,wrestling hasn't been cool since the 90s.


----------



## Ozell Gray

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Any pro wrestling seen by non wrestling viewers would be considered a knockoff WWE much like any MMA promotion seen by non fans is seen as knockoff UFC.
> 
> This is a testament to the marketing department and the fact both companys have been recognized as the premier ORG for decades.The laughing at wrestling isn't limited to AEW,wrestling hasn't been cool since the 90s.


The NBA fans weren't talking about wrestling in general though. They were talking about AEW. AEW just didn't satisfy those fans with the show.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

$Dolladrew$ said:


> This is a testament to the marketing department and the fact both companys have been recognized as the premier ORG for decades.The laughing at wrestling isn't limited to AEW,wrestling hasn't been cool since the 90s.


Wrestling was cool as of 5 years ago. It's been downhill since then.


----------



## Londonlaw

On this point: 
Apologies if already posted elsewhere.


----------



## Schwartzxz

VIP86 said:


> Whether that’s due to excessive drinking or age and injuries is up to debate.


drinking. maybe not eating right. not training enough. look at Kurt Angle right now. he looks great. Ill mention Nash too because people like to shit on him for a lot of stuff. he looks great now and he looked great 10 years ago when he was in his 50s. 
unless Jericho has some kind of medical problem which somehow makes him fat he has no excuses.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Chris Jericho's weight really has nothing to do with the overall product though.


It absolutely does! It affects how people perceive it and how seriously they consider it. These people didn’t re-engage with AEW after sampling it because it underwhelmed them. 



30yearfan said:


> What's funny is this topic shows what the"mainstream" thinks of WWE. Admitting they stopped watching over ten years ago lol so basically WWE is played out 🤔


Lol, don’t try and switch the blame to WWE. This was AEW’s chance to hook viewers and it was called a “knockoff WWE.” That’s on them.

Of course WWE has its own issues. But if you want to wear big boy pants then you’ve got to be willing to accept responsibility for how you impact the industry you’re in.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Chip Chipperson said:


> Wrestling was cool as of 5 years ago. It's been downhill since then.


Maybe things you liked but mainstream popularity hasn't been there since the 90s.Go ahead and poll random people and you'll see the overall appeal of wrestling isn't there.Wrestling is cool to me again thanks to AEW thats all I can say.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Ozell Gray said:


> The NBA fans weren't talking about wrestling in general though. They were talking about AEW. AEW just didn't satisfy those fans with the show.


Of course they weren't discussing general wrestling because that conversation doesn't exist......there is WWE and everything else is seen as a knockoff.ANY other company could have been on and the knockoff comments wouldn't have changed. Even if it had been WWE the narrative may have changed but they'd still be laughing at it not praising it.

Professional wrestling is not cool or seen positively by the majority of people outside the niche audience.


----------



## Ozell Gray

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Of course they weren't discussing general wrestling because that conversation doesn't exist......there is WWE and everything else is seen as a knockoff.ANY other company could have been on and the knockoff comments wouldn't have changed. Even if it had been WWE the narrative may have changed but they'd still be laughing at it not praising it.
> 
> Professional wrestling is not cool or seen positively by the majority of people outside the niche audience.


It was called knockoff WWE because of all the washed up WWE guys they saw. They even asked "Chris Jericho is still wrestling? I remember him from 20 years ago." Thats an indictment against AEW that they thought a 50 year old Jericho was going to keep people interested.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Ozell Gray said:


> It was called knockoff WWE because of all the washed up WWE guys they saw. They even asked "Chris Jericho is still wrestling? I remember him from 20 years ago." Thats an indictment against AEW that they thought a 50 year old Jericho was going to keep people interested.


All the washed up WWE guys being one person lol.....as I've already said I agree they didn't think through the fact that though Jericho is a big name he is indeed over the hill.But also as I said before they could have had Brian cage taking on Wardlow and the knockoff WWE comments would still be here.

These are comments from people who dont watch wrestling and haven't since the 90s to them WWE=PRO WRESTLING. Even if it were NJPW they'd be like "what's this Japanese WWE KNOCKOFF?"


----------



## Ozell Gray

$Dolladrew$ said:


> All the washed up WWE guys being one person lol.....as I've already said I agree they didn't think through the fact that though Jericho is a big name he is indeed over the hill.But also as I said before they could have had Brian cage taking on Wardlow and the knockoff WWE comments would still be here.
> 
> These are comments from people who dont watch wrestling and haven't since the 90s to them WWE=PRO WRESTLING. Even if it were NJPW they'd be like "what's this Japanese WWE KNOCKOFF?"



They wouldn’t necessarily call it a “WWE knockoff” if they opened the show with Brian Cage or someone else who hadn’t been in WWE because they’ve never heard of them nor seen them in WWE when they used to watch it.

I don’t agree that they’d call NJPW a “Japanese WWE knockoff” because they’re totally different from each other. WWE focuses on storylines and NJPW focuses on matches.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Ozell Gray said:


> They wouldn’t necessarily call it a “WWE knockoff” if they opened the show with Brian Cage or someone else who hadn’t been in WWE because they’ve never heard of them nor seen them in WWE when they used to watch it.
> 
> I don’t agree that they’d call NJPW a “Japanese WWE knockoff” because they’re totally different from each other. WWE focuses on storylines and NJPW focuses on matches.


You're completely overestimating the aptitude of the casual audience.Outside the WWE most people couldn't name a currently operating org,in fact I'd wager ECW and WCW would come up more then anything else.The style of wrestling is interchangeable to them it's all just "wrasslin" which is dominated by the WWE.

Guaranteed knockoff WWE would come up as I've explained before to the vast majority WWE=PRO WRESTLING.This is identical to the MMA landscape.I was part of that industry for many years and the UFC dominates that industry like the WWE does.I covered promotions from amateurs to the pros and the general consensus from mainstream audience always reverted back to the UFC.The perception for wrestling is exactly the same atleast in the US and I can attest to this mindset.


----------



## Ozell Gray

$Dolladrew$ said:


> You're completely overestimating the aptitude of the casual audience.Outside the WWE most people couldn't name a currently operating org,in fact I'd wager ECW and WCW would come up more then anything else.The style of wrestling is interchangeable to them it's all just "wrasslin" which is dominated by the WWE.
> 
> Guaranteed knockoff WWE would come up as I've explained before to the vast majority WWE=PRO WRESTLING.This is identical to the MMA landscape.I was part of that industry for many years and the UFC dominates that industry like the WWE does.I covered promotions from amateurs to the pros and the general consensus from mainstream audience always reverted back to the UFC.The perception for wrestling is exactly the same atleast in the US and I can attest to this mindset.


WWE is the biggest company but people only think it's WWE if they don't know anything about the company but they never say "knockoff WWE" unless it's WWE lite. My parents didn't know AEW existed until sometime last year when they stumbled upon it and they asked about it. I said it's AEW. A new wrestling company so then they said to me "so why are the WWE guys like Ambrose and Jericho there"? I told them because AEW offered Jericho money that he couldn't turn down and Ambrose wanted to leave WWE because he's mad at the company for his booking. 

They thought it was WWE only because they saw all of the WWE guys there so I'm very knowledgeable about how casuals sees other co companies in the wrestling industry. The perception is that it's a knockoff WWE because of the WWE guys they have on the roster.


----------



## The Wood

Something can look like its own thing without reminding people of WWE.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Ozell Gray said:


> WWE is the biggest company but people only think it's WWE if they don't know anything about the company but they never say "knockoff WWE" unless it's WWE lite. My parents didn't know AEW existed until sometime last year when they stumbled upon it and they asked about it. I said it's AEW. A new wrestling company so then they said to me "so why are the WWE guys like Ambrose and Jericho there"? I told them because AEW offered Jericho money that he couldn't turn down and Ambrose wanted to leave WWE because he's mad at the company for his booking.
> 
> They thought it was WWE only because they saw all of the WWE guys there so I'm very knowledgeable about how casuals sees other co companies in the wrestling industry. The perception is that it's a knockoff WWE because of the WWE guys they have on the roster.


So because your parents opinion you think you've got a grasp on the perception of wrestling by mainstream audiences?.....sorry man but that sounds absurd.The reality is most mainstream viewers who dont watch wrestling think that WWE=Wrestling anything not WWE is a knockoff like I've said about MMA and the UFC.


----------



## Ozell Gray

$Dolladrew$ said:


> So because your parents opinion you think you've got a grasp on the perception of wrestling by mainstream audiences?.....sorry man but that sounds absurd.The reality is most mainstream viewers who dont watch wrestling think that WWE=Wrestling anything not WWE is a knockoff like I've said about MMA and the UFC.


Thats just an example that I gave that not everyone is going to think the same way. Clearly the NBA viewers called it a knockoff WWE because they saw Chris Jericho is still wrestling after all these years and my parents thought it was WWE because of all the WWE guys there. Thats the perception AEW has. They have too many WWE guys and that makes people think it's WWE when they first tune in.


----------



## bdon

As long as the show features Midcard Cody in nearly a quarter of the show, it is going to feel like a midcard WWE show.

They only grow when they get away from Cody and Jericho’s sports entertainment bullshit.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Lord the delusions...


----------



## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Lord the delusions...


I think the delusions are honestly coming from the people adding nothing of substance pretending this isn’t a newsworthy deal.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The Wood said:


> I think the delusions are honestly coming from the people adding nothing of substance pretending this isn’t a newsworthy deal.


I mean it's really not but if you wanna pretend it is hey..knock yourself out.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Ozell Gray said:


> Thats just an example that I gave that not everyone is going to think the same way. Clearly the NBA viewers called it a knockoff WWE because they saw Chris Jericho is still wrestling after all these years and my parents thought it was WWE because of all the WWE guys there. Thats the perception AEW has. They have too many WWE guys and that makes people think it's WWE when they first tune in.


Literally every promotion has ex WWE guys in it so you're only reinforcing what I'm saying that every org is seen as a WWE knockoff.Casual fans aren't aware of the roster they have no idea how many ex WWE people are employed they seen 1 ex wwe superstar in Jericho and the majority of comments were about his physique not the knockoff comments.

I'll say it yet again any org coulda been on and they'd be getting made fun of wrestling isn't cool to ALOT of people.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Literally every promotion has ex WWE guys in it so you're only reinforcing what I'm saying that every org is seen as a WWE knockoff.Casual fans aren't aware of the roster they have no idea how many ex WWE people are employed they seen 1 ex wwe superstar in Jericho and the majority of comments were about his physique not the knockoff comments.
> 
> I'll say it yet again any org coulda been on and they'd be getting made fun of wrestling isn't cool to ALOT of people.


Yeah, most promotions are going to have ex WWE guys in them that's a given but look at ROH for example, they've got 3-5 ex WWE guys/girls to my knowledge which is very few compared to AEW but it also looks, feels and acts differently to WWE therefore shedding that "WWE Knockoff" feeling.

I get your point, I know a few people who call all MMA "UFC" but AEW doesn't even really give itself a chance to not be WWE lite especially with like 30-40 guys on the roster who have been contracted to the WWE at one point or another.


----------



## Shock Street

Chip Chipperson said:


> I get your point, I know a few people who call all MMA "UFC" but AEW doesn't even really give itself a chance to not be WWE lite especially with like 30-40 guys on the roster who have been contracted to the WWE at one point or another.


AEW wrestlers complain about a room of writers trying to be funny at WWE, but they don't realize that a bunch of wrestlers getting together and trying write tongue-in-cheek inside joke segments is essentially the same thing without the writing degrees, and slightly more spite. AEW could have the same roster it has with a few exceptions and have an entirely different tone, they just don't write it to be that way.


----------



## The Wood

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, most promotions are going to have ex WWE guys in them that's a given but look at ROH for example, they've got 3-5 ex WWE guys/girls to my knowledge which is very few compared to AEW but it also looks, feels and acts differently to WWE therefore shedding that "WWE Knockoff" feeling.
> 
> I get your point, I know a few people who call all MMA "UFC" but AEW doesn't even really give itself a chance to not be WWE lite especially with like 30-40 guys on the roster who have been contracted to the WWE at one point or another.


I remember the first time I watched a Wrestle Kingdom. My first thought was “Holy shit, this has got WWE production values, but it’s like it a whole new world.”

If the average fan watched New Japan, I think you would get a few “Japanese WWE” comments (because it’s analogous in terms of production quality) and comments about how nobody has a clue what is going on. Maybe a few people asking why that guy just backflipped into another guy kicking him for no reason in prelim matches, but I don’t think you’d get “knockoff WWE.”

AEW clearly went to the school of “the way Vince does things is right” when it comes to their production and the tone of their shows. And the guys they feature, as you say.

If you came out with a movie called “Captain United” and he had a giant sidekick named “The Unbelievable Bulk,” you’re going to get called a Marvel knockoff. It doesn’t mean that every blockbuster nor superhero movie gives that impression.

And you can’t argue with this impression either. That’s why I think so many people are trying to eye-roll here and act like this is not a big deal. Because this is something outside the bubble. When a giant subsection of potential wrestling fans say “this shit is silly and bad,” you don’t get to say “that’s not your real opinion.”


----------

