# The MOTYC Thread 2007!!!



## MrPaiMei

Hey, I'll steal this thread from DVDVR, because its a damn good idea and I think it will work here. Come in and just post on the matches you see from around the world that you believe everyone who votes on MOTY should see. I'll start it off by saying to those of you who watch indy's exclusivly: see Cena vs. Umaga and Cena vs. Michaels... now!


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## Tnarocks

How bout Joe vs Christian.
this thread is pointless imo


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## Homicide_187

I'll go with Joe/Christian from Destination X.



> How bout Joe vs Christian.
> this thread is pointless imo


Not pointless just way to early


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## Corey

Definitely Cena/Michaels from WM last night.


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## T-C

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Definitely Cena/Michaels from WM last night.


Taker/Batista smoked that match. It had the crowd behind it throughout, told a better story and didn't get ruined by the filler that was the leg work, that was later no sold by Cena.

So far in the year there hasn't been much balls out awesome stuff, but Kanemoto/Tanahashi deserves a mention, along with the aforementioned Batista/Taker and Briscoes/MarvZuki.


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## Thats_howIroll

Singles
Cena vs Umaga
Taker vs Batista
Joe vs Christian

Tag
Briscoes vs MarvZuki
DX vs Rated RKO

For some reason I'm liking wwe matches more than 99% of others on this forum do.


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## -Mystery-

-Low Ki/Roderick Strong from IWA-MS Hurt 2007
-Low Ki/Chuck Taylor from IWA-MS Winter Wars 2007
-Rated RKO/DX from WWE New Year's Revolution 2007
-Samoa Joe/Christian Cage from TNA Destination X 2007

In my opinion, MOTYCs are **** or higher. Taker/Batista nor Cena/Michaels were that good. Cena/Umaga maybe (have it sitting at ***3/4).


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## The Imperfect

Briscoes/MarvZuki sucked you idiots.


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## Future Star

royal rumble- John Cena vs Umaga
Destination X- Christian Cage vs Joe
Wretlemania 23- Batista vs Undertaker


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## Princess Xtyne

Shelley/Sabin vs Knight/Bishop (UWA Feb 16)
Joe vs Christian (Destination X)


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## McQueen

It is really damn early to be making this thread but so far I'd say my 2007 MOTY is Yuji Nagata vs Minoru Suzuki (**** 1/4) for the Triple Crown at the NJPW 35th Anniversary Show, then again I haven't seen much from this year yet.


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## Honor™

MOTY so far is HBk and HHH VS Orton & Edge from New Years Revolution, followed by Umaga VS Cena from the ROyal RUmble


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## Kdrag

Cena Vs. Umaga RR - ****

DX Vs. Rated-RKO NRY - *** 3/4

Taker Vs. Batista WM23 - **** 1/4


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## angryWEFposter.

I didn't think that Rated RKO vs DX was a MOTY Candinate in my opinion. And also I think Michaels vs Cena from WM is the only realistic candinate so far.


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## Ste

Joe/Cage was quality, closely followed by HBK/Cena


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## .EMO

Team Roh vs. Team Dragon Gate at 3/30


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## ROH

MarvSuzuki vs RockyIshmori. EASILY.


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## MrPaiMei

So far, **** matches I've seen are...
Hiroshi Tanahshi vs. Koji Kanemoto ****1/4
Takeshi Morishima vs. KENTA ****
Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe ****
Batista vs. Undertaker ****
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels ****1/2

Still need to get that damn Dome show...
As for people saying its too early, the point of the thread is to try and make sure people don't miss out on matches that happen in a time like now. It works better in a puro landscape like DVR, where stuff is harder to find and theres more stuff that goes undetected, but I think it will work well here. For example, this thread makes me want to specifically seek out Ki vs. Strong and DX vs. RKO, which I wouldn't have done otherwise. SO everytime you see something, say, ****1/4 and above you think may go underrated, let us know. We'll all be glad.


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## TheUnholyDragon

Haven't been keeping up with a lot of modern wrestling. Mostly been watching stuff a few years old, so you'll have to pardon my only having seen a little thus far.

Great concept by the way. I like to keep a list of my contenders throughout the year, so this could prove helpful.

DX vs. Rated RKO - WWE MYR - **** 1/2

_A really heated and intense Southern style brawl, better than any similar tags since the AMW vs. Naturals feud ended in my opinion. Well built and smartly wrestled, this match managed to work with the strengths and cover the weaknesses of the participants so well that HHH's injury and the DQ ending almost seemed to HELP the match. Great stuff._

John Cena vs. Umaga - WWE NYR - ****

_They went an entirely different route from the usual Cena match, and the usual WWE match for that matter. They completely played up how overmatched Cena was with Umaga just destroying him and cutting him off before he could get any significant offense. Cena sold the beating like a champ and Umaga gave and took the perfect amounts of offense. They even managed to put over Cena's inability to hit the FU as exhaustion instead of weakness, which is one of those subtleties that seem almost foreign in the overblown landscape of WWE._

Aside from that, I have yet to see a match over **** from 07, mostly due to how little I've been watching. What can I say? Nothing in televised wrestling is really captivating me right now. I'll have to check out some of the other matches listed here and get back to you. Many I have downloaded and on backlog. But for now, yeah, that's it.


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## Spartanlax

I haven't seen anything from Japan this year, so...

Samoa Joe vs. Christian Cage- ****1/4
Degeneration X vs. Rated RKO- ****1/4
John Cena vs. Umaga- ****

I'll have actual reasons up later.


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## watts63

IWA-MS HURT 2007: Roderick Strong vs. Low Ki ****1/4


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## MrPaiMei

I'd definatly say Originals vs. New Breed is about ****, everyone check it out.


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## -Mystery-

MrPaiMei said:


> I'd definatly say Originals vs. New Breed is about ****, everyone check it out.


Which match? Either way neither match was ****.


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## Homicide_187

MrPaiMei said:


> I'd definatly say Originals vs. New Breed is about ****, everyone check it out.


That match is a MOTYC I wouldn't go that high because it could have been way longer but ***3/4 is not pushing it at all great overall match up.


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## El Conquistador

For some reason, I haven't came across this thread in the past couple of days. I just feel like voicing my opinion and I'd like to throw in a match that I thought was one of the better tag matches I have ever seen, that being Briscoes/Lords of the Ring in Chicago on 2/24. The wrestling was exceptional (you can always expect exceptional wrestling from Jay, Mark, Daniels, and Sydal), the psychology was above par, and the selling was really good. Once the DVD comes out, I'm telling you now, you wont be disappointed. It's a must buy just for this match.


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## Algernon

RKO vs DX at NYR and Cena vs Umaga at the Rumble are the only WWE matches on the radar for me. I have yet to see Batista vs Taker a 2nd time. No way Cena/Michaels and Cage/Joe are candidates, both are ***3/4 IMO. Just missed the cut. 

I can't wait to see all the indy and japan matches people are already listing as their MOTYC. This has been a good year thus far, at least as far as televised matches, a lot of very good bordering on great matches thus far.


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## Invader Dave

The best match I've seen, personally, so far would be the Kings of Wrestling vs. Team K-Dojo.


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## bmxmadb53

187 said:


> For some reason, I haven't came across this thread in the past couple of days. I just feel like voicing my opinion and I'd like to throw in a match that I thought was one of the better tag matches I have ever seen, that being Briscoes/Lords of the Ring in Chicago on 2/24. The wrestling was exceptional (you can always expect exceptional wrestling from Jay, Mark, Daniels, and Sydal), the psychology was above par, and the selling was really good. Once the DVD comes out, I'm telling you now, you wont be disappointed. It's a must buy just for this match.


To an extent I agree with you, but I think that Jimmy Jacobs vs. Colt Cabana shined a little brighter during that show. Now I know that Jacobs vs. Whitmer probably blew that match out of the water, but I have not seen that one yet. 

The match that really sticks out in my mind is IWA-MS Hurt 2007 Roderick Strong vs. Low Ki as watts63 briefly mentioned. I was there live and I solidly agree with him. This match was easily one of the best matches I've ever seen live. If you have not checked out the match/promotion yet; I suggest you do. 

The Briscoes vs. Daniels/Sydal ***3/4
Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****
Low Ki vs. Roderick Strong ****1/2


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## Tnarocks

watts63 said:


> IWA-MS HURT 2007: Roderick Strong vs. Low Ki ****1/4


I take this thread being pointless comment back. 

Now I wanna see this match!!!:agree:


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## T-C

Just watched Tanahashi vs Nagata, and given my dislike for Nagata I was pleasantly surprised with how this turned out. Nagata still had a couple of goofy face moments that put me off a bit, but we didn't see him rolling his eyes back into his head so I got over it, I will also forgive him for it because for the most part his selling was solid.

The main thing that impressed me in this match however was that for the first time I looked at Tanahashi as the ace that NJ have been trying to make him for the last 6 months or so. He was really compelling and the lines could be drawn so easily between him and Cena it isn't funny. I used to hold both of them with utter comtempt, but now both have had two MOTYC each in the space of just over 4 months.

Back to the actual match and the one spot of the match that I really loved was when Tana went for the Frog Splash, and Nagata knowing that the only way he could avoid getting hit with it was to get his injured knees up to block it. He knew that this could cost him the match but it was a move he had to make. I loved that story.

We all know that Tanahashi's strikes are not the most believable, but I thoroughly enjoyed watching his headbutts and his striking in this match looked credible. The roundhouse kick that was hit by Nagata was also a real thing of beauty, I re-watched it at least 4 times. Some people may not have liked the "no-selling" of the Sling-Blade but it really didn't bother me, the finish was hot and the crowd were in full support of the outcome.

Overall I don't know if I would put this above the Kanemoto defence but it was still really close and possibly equal to it, and worth viewing. The rise of Tanahashi has been great over the last couple of months and I hope he can continue to improve at this rate. This is just another example of why NJ is currently smoking NOAH this year.

By the way lets try and keep this thread alive as I think if it used correctly it has the potential to be really helpful and fun. Any chance of it getting pinned :side:?


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## watts63

Another MOTYC has got to be Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima from ROH FYF: NYC (****).


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## Dimebag619

THe MITB in mania is really good.


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## Telf

_Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima - AJPW World Jr Heavyweight Title (AJPW 2/17/07)

That's it, pro-wrestling is fun again. This here match is far from perfect and will probably get torn to pieces by the more demanding fans, but maaan, did I ever get a kick out of it. The premier factor that makes this bout so absurdly enjoyable despite all its flaws is Nakajima's charisma. He is the ultimate young babyface hero, with shiny silver pants and snappy kick-based offense. There is no doubt you want him to win this match. You, over there, fuck off. The kid oozes courage and determination in a way that makes you want to 'believe' again, and that's beautiful. You really feel this match means the world to him, what with the numerous Odes to Mochizuki/TAKA/Kaz/AKIRA/Kensuke and all that. In contrast, Kondo has a pretty bland personality, but good lord does he bring some crazy ass offense to the table. While some of his bigger spots felt a tad un-necessary (like the top-rope DDT), others were down right jaw dropping in their complexity (yet rarely too contrived).

Surprisingly, Katsuhiko doesn't let the champ hog all the 'nifty offense spotlight', and breaks out tons of new shit I've never seen from him, all of it very well executed. The early limb work somewhat pays off, as Nakajima goes back to his opponent's injured arm later on to hugely positive reactions from the crowd, as a crisp high kick/lariat counter gets a bigger pop than any of the match's most ambitious high spots. The finish won't be everyone's cup of tea, but I thought it worked surprisingly well despite all the shady selling, perhaps because I was so pumped on seeing Katsuhiko get the big win. Of course, the post-match Kensuke Office celebration is a thing of beauty, but that goes without saying. The whole thing is a really successful modern day Sumo Hall-type big match, with massive crowd heat, big moves and tons of near-falls, and Nakajimmy's performance just seals the deal._


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## T-C

Telf said:


> _Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima - AJPW World Jr Heavyweight Title (AJPW 2/17/07)
> 
> That's it, pro-wrestling is fun again. This here match is far from perfect and will probably get torn to pieces by the more demanding fans, but maaan, did I ever get a kick out of it. The premier factor that makes this bout so absurdly enjoyable despite all its flaws is Nakajima's charisma. He is the ultimate young babyface hero, with shiny silver pants and snappy kick-based offense. There is no doubt you want him to win this match. You, over there, fuck off. The kid oozes courage and determination in a way that makes you want to 'believe' again, and that's beautiful. You really feel this match means the world to him, what with the numerous Odes to Mochizuki/TAKA/Kaz/AKIRA/Kensuke and all that. In contrast, Kondo has a pretty bland personality, but good lord does he bring some crazy ass offense to the table. While some of his bigger spots felt a tad un-necessary (like the top-rope DDT), others were down right jaw dropping in their complexity (yet rarely too contrived).
> 
> Surprisingly, Katsuhiko doesn't let the champ hog all the 'nifty offense spotlight', and breaks out tons of new shit I've never seen from him, all of it very well executed. The early limb work somewhat pays off, as Nakajima goes back to his opponent's injured arm later on to hugely positive reactions from the crowd, as a crisp high kick/lariat counter gets a bigger pop than any of the match's most ambitious high spots. The finish won't be everyone's cup of tea, but I thought it worked surprisingly well despite all the shady selling, perhaps because I was so pumped on seeing Katsuhiko get the big win. Of course, the post-match Kensuke Office celebration is a thing of beauty, but that goes without saying. The whole thing is a really successful modern day Sumo Hall-type big match, with massive crowd heat, big moves and tons of near-falls, and Nakajimmy's performance just seals the deal._


I'm pretty sure I read this same review of this match on the DVDVR Board.

[quote name='Shuriken' date='Feb 21 2007, 04:25 AM' post='626072']
*Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima - AJPW World Jr Heavyweight Title (AJPW 2/17/07)*

That's it, pro-wrestling is fun again. This here match is far from perfect and will probably get torn to pieces by the more demanding fans, but maaan, did I ever get a kick out of it. The premier factor that makes this bout so absurdly enjoyable despite all its flaws is Nakajima's charisma. He is the ultimate young babyface hero, with shiny silver pants and snappy kick-based offense. There is no doubt you want him to win this match. You, over there, fuck off. The kid oozes courage and determination in a way that makes you want to 'believe' again, and that's beautiful. You really feel this match means the world to him, what with the numerous Odes to Mochizuki/TAKA/Kaz/AKIRA/Kensuke and all that. In contrast, Kondo has a pretty bland personality, but good lord does he bring some crazy ass offense to the table. While some of his bigger spots felt a tad un-necessary (like the top-rope DDT), others were down right jaw dropping in their complexity (yet rarely too contrived). 

Surprisingly, Katsuhiko doesn't let the champ hog all the 'nifty offense spotlight', and breaks out tons of new shit I've never seen from him, all of it very well executed. The early limb work somewhat pays off, as Nakajima goes back to his opponent's injured arm later on to hugely positive reactions from the crowd, as a crisp high kick/lariat counter gets a bigger pop than any of the match's most ambitious high spots. The finish won't be everyone's cup of tea, but I thought it worked surprisingly well despite all the shady selling, perhaps because I was so pumped on seeing Katsuhiko get the big win. Of course, the post-match Kensuke Office celebration is a thing of beauty, but that goes without saying. The whole thing is a really successful modern day Sumo Hall-type big match, with massive crowd heat, big moves and tons of near-falls, and Nakajimmy's performance just seals the deal.
[/quote]


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## TheUnholyDragon

It seems a lot of Puro posters are finding their way here from DVDVR, I'd imagine SSS, and some other places. 

God only knows how or why. Truthfully, I'd be interested in seeing the NSW crew duke it out with the idiots in the WWE section here.


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## T-C

TheUnholyDragon said:


> It seems a lot of Puro posters are finding their way here from DVDVR, I'd imagine SSS, and some other places.
> 
> *God only knows how or why. Truthfully, I'd be interested in seeing the NSW crew duke it out with the idiots in the WWE section here. *


That could only be greatness. It would be like watching a car crash, horrible but you can't take your eyes off it.


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## Mr. Reinheimer

Cena vs. Umaga is the best WWE match that I've seen this year. I would have given that around ****. Also, Lethal Lockdown I put as ****. I'm pretty sure there will be some better matches down the line mind you.


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## Casket Cakes

Best TNA match i've seen this year has to be the Xscape match at Lockdown! Worth checking out just for Sabin and Shelley' double teaming.


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## Spartanlax

Telf stole a review AGAIN?! I fucking knew it. 

That's it, you're gone. You've been warned about this so many times it's not even funny.


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## ROH

Spartanlax said:


> That's it, you're gone. You've been warned about this so many times it's not even funny.


No offence here, but how can you say to him "you're gone" when you're not a Mod anymore?

Despite what I posted a few pages back, nothing I've seen yet from this year (and I've seen everything mentioned in this thread except all the WWE matches) is a MOTYC IMO. Saying that though, an MOTYC has to be ****1/2 or higher in my book, so that's probably why.


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## Wrestling is Life

Joe Vs. Christian Cage no doubt.


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## Spartanlax

ROH™ said:


> No offence here, but how can you say to him "you're gone" when you're not a Mod anymore?


Well, I've still pretty much been an unofficial mod since I stepped down, giving advice/my opinion on certain situations, letting them know threads that need to be closed and members that need to be banned, etc. I tell him he's gone, because he's gone, simple enough.


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## ROH

^ Ok doke. How did he get so much rep by the way?


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## Mr. Reinheimer

ROH™ said:


> Despite what I posted a few pages back, nothing I've seen yet from this year (and I've seen everything mentioned in this thread except all the WWE matches) is a MOTYC IMO. Saying that though, an MOTYC has to be ****1/2 or higher in my book, so that's probably why.


That's stupid. The MOTYC is one of the best matches of the year. If a MOTYC has to be ****1/2 or higher, then that must mean we have already seen a match of that magnitude. For all we know, Cena vs. Umaga may be the match of the year, and that was only around ****. So until we actually see a match that sets the standard of around ****1/2, you can't say that anything below that cannot be considered a MOTYC.


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## watts63

Jay Briscoe & Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin. Period.


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## ROH

Mr. Reinheimer said:


> That's stupid. The MOTYC is one of the best matches of the year. If a MOTYC has to be ****1/2 or higher, then that must mean we have already seen a match of that magnitude. For all we know, Cena vs. Umaga may be the match of the year, and that was only around ****. So until we actually see a match that sets the standard of around ****1/2, you can't say that anything below that cannot be considered a MOTYC.


I said it's in my opinion. Considering how high I rate matches, it's not stupid.


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## Mr. Reinheimer

ROH™ said:


> I said it's in my opinion. Considering how high I rate matches, it's not stupid.


So you're telling me that if there is no match that is rated ****1/2 or higher, then there will be no MOTY. That is stupid as there will always be a MOTY in wrestling.


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## ROH

Mr. Reinheimer said:


> So you're telling me that if there is no match that is rated ****1/2 or higher, then there will be no MOTY. That is stupid as there will always be a MOTY in wrestling.


Then maybe the best ****1/4 or **** match will be the MOTY? Did that thought ever cross your mind?

Like I said, I rate things very highly, there's *always* matches each year that get ****1/2 or higher from me.


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## Mr. Reinheimer

ROH™ said:


> Then maybe the best ****1/4 or **** match will be the MOTY? Did that thought ever cross your mind?
> 
> Like I said, I rate things very highly, there's *always* matches each year that get ****1/2 or higher from me.


No, you said a MOTYC HAS to be ****1/2. And you don't know if there will be a ****1/2 match this year. That's just a guess.


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## -Mystery-

Mr. Reinheimer said:


> No, you said a MOTYC HAS to be ****1/2. And you don't know if there will be a ****1/2 match this year. That's just a guess.


A company called ROH is around. Between now and the end of this year they'll produce 20 ****1/2 matches. 

I usually set a standard for different companies. For example the minimum rating to consider a WWE match at MOTYC is **** because of their style of wrestling their isn't a lot of MOTYCs each year. For Indys like ROH and IWA-MS I set the bar a bit high at ****1/2 because of the quality of matches they put on a consistant basis.


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## Mr. Reinheimer

-Mystery- said:


> A company called ROH is around. Between now and the end of this year they'll produce 20 ****1/2 matches.


Well that's you. I personally wouldn't rate a ROH match as high as that.


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## -Mystery-

Mr. Reinheimer said:


> Well that's you. I personally wouldn't rate a ROH match as high as that.


Because WWE fans like you don't understand the style. Many people can't grasp the psychology behind a match that last 30, 40, 50, and even 60 mins. This business is professional wrestling and ROH is just that. I could go on and explain more but something tells me that'd do no good.


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## ROH

Mr. Reinheimer said:


> No, you said a MOTYC HAS to be ****1/2. And you don't know if there will be a ****1/2 match this year. That's just a guess.


:no: 

Ugh, that's because I know there will be a ****1/2 match. Like Mystery said ROH and IWA:MS set the bar/standard high.


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## Mr. Reinheimer

Excuse me? Never underestimate me.

Just because I'm a WWE fan doesn't mean that I don't understand the ROH style. I've personally seen many ROH matches. I've seen the Unification match between Danielson and Nigel whatever. Thirty minutes of beat you down, get a near fall, get beaten down, kick out of a near fall, beat you down etc. I'll emphasis on the words THIRTY MINUTES! Sure, there's psychology involved there, but anyone could do that. It's nothing special. What else is there... Kenta vs. Danielson? An indy moderator on another forum recommended this match to me after showing my dislike for the Unification match, and said it was one of their best matches of 06. So I read up on it, and started watching it. How dull can you fucking get? Slap, hold, hold, work on the arm, slap, slap, knee, snore. Again, nothing special in it at all. Just a plain ass simply match, with no excitement that most wrestlers could do. One match that actually got me interested was Punk vs. Raven. I was watching the build up to that, and it was amazing. Then come to the match which was a Dog Coller match, and sweet jesus. No decent spots, nothing innovative, and the only part I can remember from it was some guy interfering at the end costing Raven the match. Is there something I'm missing?

Perhaps you should think about what you say next time, and realise that just because someone doesn't like ROH, doesn't mean they don't understand their style.


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## ROH

Mr. Reinheimer said:


> Excuse me? Never underestimate me.
> 
> Just because I'm a WWE fan doesn't mean that I don't understand the ROH style. I've personally seen many ROH matches. I've seen the Unification match between Danielson and Nigel whatever. Thirty minutes of beat you down, get a near fall, get beaten down, kick out of a near fall, beat you down etc. I'll emphasis on the words THIRTY MINUTES! Sure, there's psychology involved there, but anyone could do that. It's nothing special. What else is there... Kenta vs. Danielson? An indy moderator on another forum recommended this match to me after showing my dislike for the Unification match, and said it was one of their best matches of 06. So I read up on it, and started watching it. How dull can you fucking get? Slap, hold, hold, work on the arm, slap, slap, knee, snore. Again, nothing special in it at all. Just a plain ass simply match, with no excitement that most wrestlers could do. One match that actually got me interested was Punk vs. Raven. I was watching the build up to that, and it was amazing. Then come to the match which was a Dog Coller match, and sweet jesus. No decent spots, nothing innovative, and the only part I can remember from it was some guy interfering at the end costing Raven the match. Is there something I'm missing?
> 
> Perhaps you should think about what you say next time, and realise that just because someone doesn't like ROH, doesn't mean they don't understand their style.


Mystery was right. Further explanation isn't needed. There's no point in wasting time on people like you.

P.S KENTA/Dragon was ***** and the 2006 MOTY. :agree:


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## Mr. Reinheimer

ROH™ said:


> Mystery was right. Further explanation isn't needed. There's no point in wasting time on people like you.
> 
> P.S KENTA/Dragon was ***** and the 2006 MOTY. :agree:


Nah, I would have given it ***1/2 at the most :agree:

... And there's no need to explain. It's obvious that it's a waste of time for me to even take your ratings seriously.


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## ROH

Mr. Reinheimer said:


> Nah, I would have given it ***1/2 at the most :agree:
> 
> ... And there's no need to explain. It's obvious that it's a waste of time for me to even take your ratings seriously.


Why are you so obnoxious? What you said about Nigel/Dragom and KENTA/Dragon clearly said you were barely paying attention to them/concentrating while watching the match. It wasn't just "kick, slap, armwork" (in Dragon/KENTA) you'd have to be a moron for saying that statement seriously. Dragon went in with the injured shoulder, and KENTA worked the body part, destroying it with his kicks. Normally Dragon dictates the pace in his title defences, but this time his challenger did. That led to an atmosphere where the whole building though KENTA had the title, that he was a legitamate threat to it. You can see that played off when everyone was on their feet ready for the title change when he hit the Go 2 Sleep. Also all the arm work was paid off with the fujiwara armbar, which again every fan in attendance brought Dragon submitting to. The match had everything a good match needs, a good story, flow, psycology, wrestling and heat (and more). The rating "***1/2" for it is completely laughable. I'll think you'll find everyone else here doesn't take *your* ratings seriously, not mine.


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## KingKicks

ROH™ said:


> Mystery was right. Further explanation isn't needed. There's no point in wasting time on people like you.
> 
> P.S *KENTA/Dragon was ***** and the 2006 MOTY. :agree:*


Definetly, with McGuiness/Danielson and Marufuji/McGuiness a close second


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## Future Star

ROH dont worry, he doesnt look at the psychology and storytelling to rate matches like us...just let him watch his entertainment


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## ROH

^ lol yeah. He can just enjoy his entertainment, not wrestling.


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## -Mystery-

Mr. Reinheimer you're a typical WWE fan who doesn't understand Indy matches. You have to understand concepts like in-ring psychology, storytelling, work ethic, etc to understand Indy matches which you quite obviously don't understand. Just take yourself back to the WWE section.

Also, Pelle > Orton


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## ROH

-Mystery- said:


> Mr. Reinheimer you're a typical WWE fan who doesn't understand Indy matches. You have to understand concepts like in-ring psychology, storytelling, work ethic, etc to understand Indy matches which you quite obviously don't understand. Just take yourself back to the WWE section.
> 
> Also, Pelle > Orton


OWNAGE!!11!


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## GenerationNeXt

-Mystery- said:


> Mr. Reinheimer you're a typical WWE fan who doesn't understand Indy matches. You have to understand concepts like in-ring psychology, storytelling, work ethic, etc to understand Indy matches which you quite obviously don't understand. Just take yourself back to the WWE section.
> 
> Also, Pelle > Orton


Actually most of the Shimmer roster > Orton. Oh yeah I said it..


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## Spartanlax

GenerationNeXt6 said:


> Actually most of the Shimmer roster > Orton. Oh yeah I said it..


Well, to be fair, Sara Del Ray is freaking awesome, and > a good portion of the indy scene.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Alright guys, lets not go overboard. Theres a big differance between not understanding ROH style and not enjoying it. You would find a lot of big puro fans HATE ROH with a passion. It's not because they don't understand great matches, but the style is definatly polarizing.I personally, try to be a fan of everything. Some of you hate WWE. Cool, thats fine. Some people hate ROH, don't act all elitist and try to be that "smart" wrestling fan.


----------



## Spartanlax

I agree 100%, PaiMei. If someone doesn't like or enjoy ROH, that's fine. HOWEVER, saying the wrestlers and matches aren't good is a whole 'nother story. Take Pyro™ from this forum. He hates ROH with a passion, yet calls them the best wrestling promotion in the world. Why? Because he may not enjoy the product, but there's no denying the matches and wrestlers are incredible. That's why people are on Mr. Reinhamer's (or whatever's) case.


----------



## MrPaiMei

I agree, Spartanlax. He never disparaged the wrestlers, so I have his back, but matches (and wrestlers to a lesser extent) is a matter of opinion. If he thought KENTA-Dragon was a snorefest thats his opinion. I don't, I think it was *****, but it ain't my decision what he thinks. I hated BJ vs. Brent but if someone said "****1/2 amazing contest" who I am to say they're wrong? He wasn't a scumbag so I felt disparaging him (and I'm sure you agree with me" wasn't necessary. If he said "Brian Danielson sux he pale matches boring BOOOO" that's another story. But he didn't.


----------



## VenturaPt

Rumble, Cena vs Umaga;
Mania, Cena vs Hbk;
5th Year Festival, Shima vs Joe; 
Nav. Evolution, Morishima and Yone vs Akiyama and Rikio(maybe overrating, but I mark for it)

Also, saying that Kenta vs AmDrag and AmDrag vs Nigel wasn't that good...is stupid. Sorry.


----------



## ROH Fan #1

I enjoyed Joe vs. Nigel at Liverpool but since that is impossible to mention yet ill say: Undertaker vs. Batista WM 23. There will be an indy match which will surpass this though. And I also liked the LockDown main event.


----------



## Mr. Reinheimer

-Mystery- said:


> Mr. Reinheimer you're a typical WWE fan who doesn't understand Indy matches. You have to understand concepts like in-ring psychology, storytelling, work ethic, etc to understand Indy matches which you quite obviously don't understand. Just take yourself back to the WWE section.
> 
> Also, Pelle > Orton


I don't understand it because I don't like? Oh dear god. The reason why I DON'T watch ROH is because it bores me to death, not because it's too hard to understand. It also makes me sick that people will give matches from them very high ratings. By saying Danielson vs. Kenta is just as good as wrestling classics such as Flair vs. Steamboat and Hart vs. Hart, or saying they're just as good as matches that innovated pro wrestling like HBK vs. Razor and HBK vs. Undertaker is a fucking joke.

Like a poster said below me, rating are completely opinionative. I haven't told ANY of you that your opinion is wrong, yet you continue to alienate me for thinking differently? Typical.

To whoever said that I value entertainment more than the wrestling itself... wrestling is about entertaining the fans. A good match is one that you actually enjoy. Whether it comes thru twisting storylines, or twisting leg holds is up to the fan. But your NOT a smart fan just because you like ROH over any other brand such as the WWE. 

Also, this is a MOTYC for all wrestling. I have as much right to be here than any of you.


----------



## MrPaiMei

I don't agree with your opinion on the match, but he is exactly right. Case closed.


----------



## -Mystery-

Mr. Reinheimer said:


> I don't understand it because I don't like? Oh dear god. The reason why I DON'T watch ROH is because it bores me to death, not because it's too hard to understand. It also makes me sick that people will give matches from them very high ratings. By saying Danielson vs. Kenta is just as good as wrestling classics such as Flair vs. Steamboat and Hart vs. Hart, or saying they're just as good as matches that innovated pro wrestling like HBK vs. Razor and HBK vs. Undertaker is a fucking joke.
> 
> Like a poster said below me, rating are completely opinionative. I haven't told ANY of you that your opinion is wrong, yet you continue to alienate me for thinking differently? Typical.


You just kind of contradicted yourself, huh? First you say it makes you sick that people rate matches like KENTA/Danielson highly and that comapring them to classics is a joke. Then, you say you never said our opinions were wrong. Well, hate to break it to you, you just did.

It doesn't surprise me that a typical WWE fan is bored by a match like KENTA/Danielson seeing how the match nearly went 40 mins. I mean when is the last time WWE (minus the Rumble) has had a match go 40 mins? Let me tell you it happens every once and a blue moon.

Finally, for the record I'll take Joe/Punk II (*****) over anything ever produced.


----------



## GenerationNeXt

-Mystery- said:


> You just kind of contradicted yourself, huh? First you say it makes you sick that people rate matches like KENTA/Danielson highly and that comapring them to classics is a joke. Then, you say you never said our opinions were wrong. Well, hate to break it to you, you just did.
> 
> It doesn't surprise me that a typical WWE fan is bored by a match like KENTA/Danielson seeing how the match nearly went 40 mins. I mean when is the last time WWE (minus the Rumble) has had a match go 40 mins? Let me tell you it happens every once and a blue moon.
> 
> Finally, for the record I'll take Joe/Punk II (*****) over anything ever produced.


For some reason I've always liked Joe/Punk I other then Joe/Punk II anyways, Two MOTYC's in my opinion are McGuinness Vs Marufuji and KENTA Vs Danielson both from Glory By Honor V: Night 2.


----------



## Mr. Reinheimer

-Mystery- said:


> You just kind of contradicted yourself, huh? First you say it makes you sick that people rate matches like KENTA/Danielson highly and that comapring them to classics is a joke. Then, you say you never said our opinions were wrong. Well, hate to break it to you, you just did.
> 
> It doesn't surprise me that a typical WWE fan is bored by a match like KENTA/Danielson seeing how the match nearly went 40 mins. I mean when is the last time WWE (minus the Rumble) has had a match go 40 mins? Let me tell you it happens every once and a blue moon.
> 
> Finally, for the record I'll take Joe/Punk II (*****) over anything ever produced.


Saying something is a joke and saying something is wrong are two completely different things. There was no contradiction in there at all.

Tell me, why is the length in a match so important? Are you saying that ROH need to rely on long matches for them to be good?

Last but not least, I'ld like you to continue calling me a typical WWE fan. Hell, to me you're a typical ROH fan, and your opinion means as much to me as mine means to you.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

*sigh*

I have to say, this thread is living up to the earlier NSW joke...

So many elitists. SO many...


----------



## -Mystery-

I'll go ahead and say Quackenbush/Claudio from Chikara's Time Will Prove Everything as a possible MOTYC. Now, I gave the match **** but some of you may enjoy the match more than me and may rate it higher.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Just DVR'd Michaels-Cena II, how is it?


----------



## Homicide_187

MrPaiMei said:


> Just DVR'd Michaels-Cena II, how is it?


Fucking great on first viewing I'd give it ****.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

-Mystery- said:


> You just kind of contradicted yourself, huh? First you say it makes you sick that people rate matches like KENTA/Danielson highly and that comapring them to classics is a joke. Then, you say you never said our opinions were wrong. Well, hate to break it to you, you just did.
> 
> It doesn't surprise me that a typical WWE fan is bored by a match like KENTA/Danielson seeing how the match nearly went 40 mins. I mean when is the last time WWE (minus the Rumble) has had a match go 40 mins? Let me tell you it happens every once and a blue moon.
> 
> Finally, for the record I'll take Joe/Punk II (*****) over anything ever produced.



Well, Raw certainly owned you didn't it?


----------



## ROH

*Mike Quackenbush vs Claudio Castagnoli at CHIKARA's Time Will Prove Everything*. It probably isn't this high of a rating, but I just loved every bit of the match, and I don't feel right not giving it a high ratings considering how perfect it was. ****1/4_****1/2.


----------



## Kawada = god

My current top ten:

#1. Yuji Nagata vs. Minoru Suzuki - NJPW 1/4
#2. Ricky Marvin/Kotaro Suzuki vs. Jay Briscoe/Mark Briscoe - NOAH 1/21
#3. Satoshi Kojima vs. Minoru Suzuki - AJPW 2/17
#4. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Taiyo Kea - NJPW 1/4
#5. John Cena vs. Umaga - WWE Royal Rumble 1/28
#6. KENTA vs. Takeshi Morishima - NOAH 3/4
#7. The Undertaker vs. Batista - WWE Wrestlemania XXIII 4/1
#8. Takashi Sasaki vs. Yuko Miyamoto - BJW 3/14
#9. KENTA/Marufuji/Rikio vs. Takayama/Suzuki/SUWA - NOAH 1/21
#10. Ricky Marvin/Kotaro Suzuki vs. Taiji Ishimori/Rocky Romero - NOAH 2/24


----------



## Role Model

HBK/Cena 2. Amazing match ****1/2. Just as good on TV, as it was live.


----------



## -Mystery-

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Well, Raw certainly owned you didn't it?


I never said WWE doesn't put on lengthy matches. I just said they few and far between. I guarantee you right here and now WWE won't put on another 30+ min match this year.

Anyways, Cena/Michaels II is a WWE MOTYC. Very good match except the selling sucked big time.


----------



## Role Model

I'm sure WWE will put on another 30+ minute match this year, I can't believe you think they won't after the success of last night.

Cena still can't sell, but at least he did better than at WM.


----------



## -Mystery-

Role Model said:


> I'm sure WWE will put on another 30+ minute match this year, I can't believe you think they won't.
> 
> Cena still can't sell, but at least he did better than at WM.


Unless it's gimmick it won't happen. I mean how many non-gimmick matches last year went over 30 mins? I probably should've been a bit more clear with my statement. We won't see another 30+ min wrestling match.


----------



## X/L/AJ

I'm not much for rating matches and all that but two people gave Claudio/Quack from Time Will Prove Everything as a possible MOTYC? I finally just saw that today and I found it to be my least favorite of their meetings I have seen. I've seen 5 of their 7 or 8 matches. It was pretty good but not a MOTYC I don't think.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Alright were about a 1/3 of the way through the year, so lets list what may not be MOTYC's, but are definatly must see.
WWE
D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO - New Year's Revolution
John Cena vs. Umaga - Royal Rumble
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 23
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - RAW

TNA
Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe - Destination X

ROH
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima - Fifth Year Festival: NYC
Jay and Mark Briscoe vs. El Generico and Kevin Steen - Fifth Year Festival: Philly
Six Man Mayhem - Fifth Year Festival: Dayton
Davey Richards vs. Samoa Joe - Fifth Year Festival: Dayton
Lords of the Ring vs. The Briscoes - Fifth Year Festival: Chicago
Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs - Fifth Year Festival: Chicago

NOAH
The Briscoes vs. Ricky Marvin and Kotaru Suzuki - 1.21.07
Ricky Marvin and Kotaru Suzuki vs. Rocky Romero and Taiji Ishimori - 2.24.07

New Japan
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Yugi Nagata - 4.19.06
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Koji Kanemoto - 2.18.07
Minoru Suzuki vs. Yugi Nagata - 1.4.06
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Taiyo Kae - 1.4.06

All Japan
Shugi Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima - 2.17.06
Minoru Suzuki vs. Satoshi Kojima - 2.17.06

IWA-MS
Low Ki vs. Roderick Strong - Hurt 2007

CHIKARA
Mike Quackenbush vs. Claudio Castagnoli - Time Will Prove Everything


Anything I miss or isn't deserving? I haven't seen everything but I have a stack of puro to watch so I'll update, hopefully with some DG stuff, after. Upon second watch, my current MOTY is Briscoes-Marvin and Suzuki at ****1/2, as I dug it as more epic this time and now prefer it to the 6MM.


----------



## T-C

I'm not much of a deathmatch fan, but people should check out some Big Japan from this year, it has been really stellar, specifically Yuko Miyamoto Vs. Takashi Sasaki, from 03/14. But what I really want to mention is Takayama's current run in Zero-1, everyone should be clamouring to see that stuff, really great shit. The best in that run so far in my opinion is Shinjiro Otani & Takao Omori Vs. Yoshihiro Takayama & Kohei Sato, from 02/18, but pretty much everything in the feud with Omori has been awesome.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

-Mystery- said:


> I never said WWE doesn't put on lengthy matches. I just said they few and far between. I guarantee you right here and now WWE won't put on another 30+ min match this year.
> 
> Anyways, Cena/Michaels II is a WWE MOTYC. Very good match except the selling sucked big time.


I was poking fun mostly. It was just funny timing that they threw that match on almost immediately after you made that comment.

Speaking of which, I need to see if I can track that down...


----------



## LL4E

Just watched Cena/HBK from WrestleMania, very dissapointed as a whole. Michaels was dead on that night, working the leg, moonsault, and busting out the old piledriver on the steps :shocked: Cena though, got his knee destroyed for a good bit, and emmediately not only no-sold it, but was f'n running! Anyway, just my personal thoughts on the match. I rather liked the match from Raw last night, not something you see very often on televesion these days length wise.


----------



## USAUSA1

Last night Raw match is super overrated. You can't seriously put that match in the top 10 unless its a WWE top 10. I take MVP vs. Benoit from Smackdown over this match.

Big Japan has been on point with everything this year and it will only get better starting this weekend. 

Takashi Sasaki vs. Yuko Miyamoto - BJW 3/14 is still the match of the year too me. It had everything for every fan. The promo build up earlier on the show was UFC/HBO like.


----------



## McQueen

Current Top 5 for the year thus far..

1. Minoru Suzuki vs Yuji Nagata - NJPW/AJPW 1/04/2007 Dome Show (**** 1/2)
2. John Cena vs Umaga (Last Man Standing) - WWE Royal Rumble 2007 (**** 1/2)
3. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Koji Kanemoto - NJPW 2/18/2007 (**** 1/4)
4. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Yuji Nagata - NJPW 4/13/2007 (**** 1/4)
5. Samoa Joe vs Takeshi Morishima - ROH FYF NYC (****)


----------



## peep4life

McQueen said:


> Current Top 5 for the year thus far..
> 
> 1. Minoru Suzuki vs Yuji Nagata - NJPW/AJPW 1/04/2007 Dome Show (**** 1/2)
> 2. John Cena vs Umaga (Last Man Standing) - WWE Royal Rumble 2007 (**** 1/2)
> 3. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Koji Kanemoto - NJPW 2/18/2007 (**** 1/4)
> 4. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Yuji Nagata - NJPW 4/13/2007 (**** 1/4)
> *5. Samoa Joe vs Takeshi Morishima - ROH FYF NYC (****)*



Just got all the FYF dvds and watched this match, thought it was four stars as well, but I don't think that it was as good as his title match with Christian. Thats just my opinion though.


----------



## McQueen

peep4life said:


> [/B]
> Just got all the FYF dvds and watched this match, thought it was four stars as well, but I don't think that it was as good as his title match with Christian. Thats just my opinion though.


I simply haven't seen the Joe/Christian match, so I couldn't tell you if it's good or not.
I don't watch a lot of TNA but i've heard good things about that match.


----------



## dormu

Briscoes vs MarvZuki
Joe vs Morishima

Why the hell does everybody like Joe vs Christian so much? It was good but nowhere near MOTY level


----------



## watts63

Top 3 MOTYC So Far (Which I Saw):

1: The Briscoes vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****1/2 (Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/27/07)
2: Low Ki vs. Roderick Strong ****(IWA-MS HURT 2007)
3: Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima **** (ROH Fifth Year Festival: NYC)


----------



## TheNineTails

Super Dragon vs. Low Ki


----------



## Homicide_187

I have to add Batista/Taker from Backlash in this thread ****1/2 to ****3/4 stars they certainly surpassed by expectations.


----------



## KingKicks

From what I've seen so far

TNA MOTY - Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe from Destination X

WWE MOTY - Batista vs. Undertaker from Backlash

ROH MOTY - Either Takeshi Morishima vs. Samoa Joe from FYF:NY or The Briscoes vs. The Lords Of The Ring from FYF:Chicago


----------



## ROH

dormu said:


> Why the hell does everybody like Joe vs Christian so much? It was good but nowhere near MOTY level


Well it's opinionated. Also, it was that good, it had all the qualities it needed (the most odvious one being drama and heat). Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's not an MOTYC, at least in other's opinions.


----------



## FiftyThreeSai

Shinsuke Nakamura vs Toshiaki Kawada - New Japan Pro Wrestling

Great stiff action as one would expect from these two. There was a very nice suplex exchange in the middle with Kawada taking a sick looking tiger suplex. Kawada pulls out the win after 20+ min with a Dangerous Kick. The only problems I had with the match was the slow pace it seemed to be moving at, and the crowd being pretty much dead.

Jun Akiyama vs Go Shiozaki - Pro Wrestling NOAH

This match, while essentially being a squash, was extremely well done with Shiozaki getting destroyed but coming back and not giving up. Akiyama worked a legit hurt arm through the match trying to tear it off at some points. Lots of near falls from both guys, Shiozaki kicks the exploder but finally gets put down with the wrist clutch variant.


----------



## USAUSA1

Billy Boy vs. Gran Apache Second best match of the year


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Finally watched both Michaels vs. Cena matches.

Cena vs. Michaels from Mania I gave ****3/4 and have it sitting as my current MOTY. The Raw rematch I gave ****1/2. I posted full reviews in my wrestling LJ, so if you want to read my reasoning go to my sig and click the link. I'm fairly extensive on it, actually.


----------



## T-C

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Finally watched both Michaels vs. Cena matches.
> 
> Cena vs. Michaels from Mania I gave ****3/4 and have it sitting as my current MOTY. The Raw rematch I gave ****1/2. I posted full reviews in my wrestling LJ, so if you want to read my reasoning go to my sig and click the link. I'm fairly extensive on it, actually.


Very good write-ups. I especially agree with Cena being the best big match wrestler on the planet currently, and him for the most part carrying Michaels in the matches. I slightly preferred the Raw match however, mainly because I'm a big fan of matches playing off stories from previous matches. I really liked the finish of the Raw match because not only did it play off the fact that Michaels was saying that all he needed was a second to hit the kick in the build up to the Mania match, but also because at the start of the match Cena was showing Michaels that it just took one second for him to lock in the STFU and make Michaels tap. I also loved how at the start of the match it made you think that if Cena caught him with the drop toe hold it could end that quickly.


----------



## Illusion

I'd have to say that Shawn Michaels v. John Cena II on RAW is my favorite match so far this year presented on a WWE, non-PPV, broadcast.


----------



## USAUSA1

> Cena being the best big match wrestler on the planet currently,


Well, second best behind Sasaki.


----------



## dman88

Briscoes vs Alex Shelly & Chris Sabin 4/28/07 **** - **** 1/2


----------



## MrPaiMei

Will update with a top 10 list after I finish off the 5 or so matches I need to watch tonight, but just watched the GHC Tag Titlew match and its awesome, ****1/4, and Suiguira BECOMES A STAR. The DG vs. NOAH 6 man from the same show is also worth a watch, round ***1/2. Will watch Sano vs. Misawa soon, as well as the Team Dragon vs. Team KENTA six man. Heard the Kotaru Suzuki vs. Tatsuhito Takeiwa GHC Junior match was AWFUL, but I may check it out. Will update soon.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

that's cool said:


> Very good write-ups. I especially agree with Cena being the best big match wrestler on the planet currently, and him for the most part carrying Michaels in the matches. I slightly preferred the Raw match however, mainly because I'm a big fan of matches playing off stories from previous matches. I really liked the finish of the Raw match because not only did it play off the fact that Michaels was saying that all he needed was a second to hit the kick in the build up to the Mania match, but also because at the start of the match Cena was showing Michaels that it just took one second for him to lock in the STFU and make Michaels tap. I also loved how at the start of the match it made you think that if Cena caught him with the drop toe hold it could end that quickly.


Glad you enjoyed em. Keep an eye on there for more in the future, as well as a chance to see how *I* wrestle (backyard, but more RoH/NOAH than XPW style)

But yeah, I preferred the Mania match personally. I thought it had a lot more intensity and a stronger feeling to it. As much as I did like how they played off the Mania match, part of what I noted about the Raw match was how Cena spent the first 50-70% of the match treating it like a standard exhibition, which worked in the context of the match, but took away some of the suspense. 

Basically, my preference more or less came down to atmosphere. The way Cena cursed his arm in that match was awesome though. Also, Jerry Lawler is an awesome commentator when he wants to be.


----------



## Spartanlax

Sorry, but I don't get why people are rating the Mania match so highly, I just don't see it. It was nothing too special until the last 5 minutes, and Cena's whole...y'know...running and jumping around immediately following 10 minutes of leg work isn't too hot either. 

However, whoever was praising that BJW scaffold/lighttubes match earlier in this thread, I think it was USAUSA1 or something, you were so right about that match being awesome. I downloaded it and had a blast watching it, and I was surprised to see it actually being worked really well as a match instead of just hitting each other with weapons for no reason. Loved it.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Ya, I REALLY need to start watching more Big Japan.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Spartanlax said:


> Sorry, but I don't get why people are rating the Mania match so highly, I just don't see it. It was nothing too special until the last 5 minutes, and Cena's whole...y'know...running and jumping around immediately following 10 minutes of leg work isn't too hot either.


It was a matter of subtlety and consistancy throughout building a complex and well executed story. Something most wrestlers can't do anymore.

And as for the legwork, as I explained in my review, the only reason it was so effective was because Shawn stayed on him. Once Cena got him off his back, he was able to recover quickly. It's perfectly logical and happens all the time, though I will say that Cena should have sold it a little more in the short term.

That said, I stand by my statement that Cena is the best big match worker in the world today. He can bring a big time match style and feel like no other.


----------



## Sephiroth

anyone add Briscoes vs. Motor City Machine Guns from 4/28? add that!

oh and Mushiking Terry winning a title, MOTY no doubt.


----------



## T-C

sephy37 said:


> anyone add Briscoes vs. Motor City Machine Guns from 4/28? add that!
> 
> *oh and Mushiking Terry winning a title, MOTY no doubt.*


I'm hoping that was a joke.


----------



## Sephiroth

that's cool said:


> I'm hoping that was a joke.


you think Mushiking Terry is a joke? HE'S THE GHC JR. CHAMP, YOU BOW DOWN


----------



## T-C

sephy37 said:


> you think Mushiking Terry is a joke? HE'S THE GHC JR. CHAMP, YOU BOW DOWN


Hehe, Terry is cool and all, but any match involving Takaiwa is not going to be good. This match being a good example of that.


----------



## Sephiroth

that's cool said:


> Hehe, Terry is cool and all, but any match involving Takaiwa is not going to be good. This match being a good example of that.


yeah, i didn't mean the match deserved it simply on the quality, but on the fact that Terry won a title


----------



## X/L/AJ

I just watched Kingston vs Hero from CZW Out With The Old, In With The New and it was amazing. Easily a MOTYC. They tore each other apart and it was stiff as hell. Imagine that. Too bad the show was overshadowed by Zandig flipping out and firing King but the match sure is something to see.


----------



## Kawada = god

Takaiwa has had good matches before. There's no reason Takaiwa vs Terry can't be at least good.


----------



## T-C

Kawada = god said:


> Takaiwa has had good matches before. There's no reason Takaiwa vs Terry can't be at least good.


Just watch it, they botched so much including the finish. Not good at all.


----------



## dormu

Joe vs Morishima is a great Puro-like Heavyweight match


----------



## -Mystery-

I've got a new overall MOTY. Briscoe/Briscoe from ROH's Fifth Year Festival: Finale.

****1/2 - ****3/4


----------



## McQueen

-Mystery- said:


> I've got a new overall MOTY. Briscoe/Briscoe from ROH's Fifth Year Festival: Finale.
> 
> ****1/2 - ****3/4


Wow, I've been hearing good things about that match and I'm watching that show soon, looking forward to it, as of right now my ROH MOTY goes to Briscoes vs Doi/Shingo but lets see if this tops it.


----------



## -Mystery-

McQueen said:


> Wow, I've been hearing good things about that match and I'm watching that show soon, looking forward to it, as of right now my ROH MOTY goes to Briscoes vs Doi/Shingo but lets see if this tops it.


Briscoe/Briscoe has some great psychology to it. The timeless classic of brother vs. brother along with the fact that they're so dedicated to tag team wrestling that they're willing to nearly kill each other to become refocused made for a great story told.


----------



## El Conquistador

-Mystery- said:


> Briscoe/Briscoe has some great psychology to it. The timeless classic of brother vs. brother along with the fact that they're so dedicated to tag team wrestling that they're willing to nearly kill each other to become refocused made for a great story told.


I'd agree with you, -Mystery-. I just watched the FYF Liverpool Series this morning because my dog woke me up at 5 a.m. Hard hitting, outstanding psychology, great wrestling, but I felt the finish kind of ruins the match, well at least for me. Not going to get too much into detail because I don't want to spoil the whole match.

As for Doi/Shingo vs. Briscoes, I just felt that was boring, I wasn't very lively and energetic during that match. Just wait till the Chicago 4/28 DVD is revealed and released, Shelley/Sabin vs. Briscoes was off the hook and outdid any other tag team match up I've seen this year.


----------



## w00t?

1. Money in the Bank Ladder Match at WM23
2. Christian Cage Vs Samoa Joe
3. Undertaker Vs Batista
4. John Cena Vs HBK Vs Edge Vs Randy Orton at Backlash
5. Low Ki Vs Roderick Strong at IWA Hurt

This is how it goes for me so far. I still have to catch up with ROH though. I haven't watched a single ROH show of 2007 and when I do catch up I think my top 5 will change for sure, maybe even drasticaly.


----------



## McQueen

w00t? said:


> 1. Money in the Bank Ladder Match at WM23


Really? Granted there were fun moments in that match but I thought that match was the worst MITB yet and the worst match that could have been taken seriously on the WM 23 card (so discarding Khali/Kane and the Women's match). Not meaning to flame just a little surprised is all.


----------



## w00t?

McQueen said:


> Really? Granted there were fun moments in that match but I thought that match was the worst MITB yet and the worst match that could have been taken seriously on the WM 23 card (so discarding Khali/Kane and the Women's match). Not meaning to flame just a little surprised is all.


I though it was the best MITB match yet. There were many people in it but everything come out well.

As I said, the top will probably change once I catch up with ROH.


----------



## Role Model

This year's MITB might be one of the most overrated matches of the year, it was really nothing special at all. Easily the worst MITB match.


----------



## Kdrag

Role Model said:


> This year's MITB might be one of the most overrated matches of the year, it was really nothing special at all. Easily the worst MITB match.


I agree with you BPP, it was a spot-fest, yes it was. A doozie on the eyes but overall, not that great'v a match, lemme tell ya, brother.

So far I would have to say:

Cena/Umaga RR
'Taker/Batista WM
'Taker/Batista Backlash
Ashley/Melina WM

No particular order my brotha.


----------



## -Mystery-

Kdrag said:


> I agree with you BPP, it was a spot-fest, yes it was. A doozie on the eyes but overall, not that great'v a match, lemme tell ya, brother.
> 
> So far I would have to say:
> 
> Cena/Umaga RR
> 'Taker/Batista WM
> 'Taker/Batista Backlash
> *Ashley/Melina WM*
> 
> No particular order my brotha.


:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Role Model

I'm hoping that was a joke.


----------



## Kdrag

I don't joke, brotha. I also think Benoit MVP at Backlash is a candidate for '07, yezsir it was.


----------



## -Mystery-

Kdrag said:


> I don't joke, brotha. I also think Benoit MVP at Backlash is a candidate for '07, yezsir it was.


You have terrible taste in wrestling. A less than 3 minute, horrible women's match a MOTYC? :lmao x 1000


----------



## MrPaiMei

My current top 20.

1) Nigel McGuinness vs. Jimmy Rave - 3.4
2) Jay and Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaru Suzuki and Ricky Marvin - 1.21
3) Jay and Mark Briscoe vs. Naruki Doi and Shingo - 3.3
4) Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe - 3.4
5) Naruki Doi and Shingo vs. No Remorse Corps - 3.4
6) John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - 4.1
7) Jun Akiyama and Takeshi Rikio vs. Takeshi Suiguira and Yoshihiro Takayama - 4.28
8) John Cena vs. Umaga - 1.22
9) Claudio Castagnoli vs. Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Cross vs. Pelle Primeau vs. Roderick Strong vs. Shingo - 2.23
10) John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - 4.22 (?)
11) Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Koji Kanemoto - 2.22 (?)
12) Nigel McGuinness vs. Samoa Joe - 3.3
13) Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima - 2.16
14) Kotaru Suzuki and Ricky Marvin vs. Rocky Romero and Taiji Ishimori - 2.24
15) El Generico and Kevin Steen vs. Jay and Mark Briscoe - 2.17
16) Davey Richards vs. Samoa Joe - 2.23
17) Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs - 2.24
18) Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe - 3.25 (?)
19) Christopher Daniels and Matt Sydal vs. Jay and Mark Briscoe - 2.24
20) BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs - 3.4

I'm REALLY behind on Puro, had a rough month with a lot of projects for school. I've seen no DG, and minimal NJPW and AJPW though I've kept up with NOAH. No BJPW either. Got more time now, though. Tonights matches should be:
Hero vs. Kingston Loser Leaves CZW
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Yuji Nagata 
Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima
Low Ki vs. Roderick Strong 

That should have me covered till Entourage comes on. Will update this as I see more. And yes, I know Jimmy Rave, my least favorite wrestler EVER, is in my #1, but he deserves it for that match. I also hate that the 6MM dropped so much, but the GHC Junior tag was better on a second watch, as was Cena-Umaga, and then the UK shows dominated the top 10. Such is life.


----------



## McQueen

That's a nice list PaiMei and while I disagree with some of it those matches on your list that I've seen have been great. Nagata vs Tanahashi is a great match and I wouldn't be surprised if it cracks your top ten. The NJPW/AJPW joint 1/4 Toko Dome show has a few great matches in the tokyo dome as well you should try to get a copy or download of that show.


----------



## -Mystery-

Hero/Kingston from CZW's 'Out With The Old, In With The New' is a definate MOTYC and possibly only second behind Briscoe/Briscoe for overall MOTY. 

Just a great match between two men whos hatred literally radiates through your television. The entrances of both men gave me goosebumps because you could seriously feel the emotion and hatred without having to attend the show live. The end gave me goosebumps too. It's not too often I get goosebumps while watching a match but this match was something special. It was by far the best match CZW has produced in it's 8 year history and MUST be seen. ****1/2


----------



## MrPaiMei

Hero-King is top 5 and Yuji-Tanahashi is lower Top 10. I have a copy of 1.4 on its way, can't wait.


----------



## McQueen

MrPaiMei said:


> Hero-King is top 5 and Yuji-Tanahashi is lower Top 10. I have a copy of 1.4 on its way, can't wait.


Cool, Minoru Suzuki/Yuji Nagata from the dome is my current #1 MOTY but it's kinda starting to fall behind, Kawada vs Nakamura is some pretty choice shit as well. Briscoe vs Briscoe is a serious threat to it now and I like Tanahashi/Nagata more everytime I watch it.

Updated Top 5

1. Minoru Suzuki vs Yuji Nagata - NJPW/AJPW 1/04/2007 Dome Show (**** 1/2)
2. John Cena vs Umaga (Last Man Standing) - WWE Royal Rumble 2007 (**** 1/2)
3. Jay Briscoe vs Mark Briscoe - ROH Fifth Year Festival: Finale 3/4/2007 (**** 1/2)
4. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Yuji Nagata - NJPW 4/13/2007 (**** 1/4)
5. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Koji Kanemoto - NJPW 2/18/2007 (**** 1/4)
__________________


----------



## Cookie Monsta

Ricky Marvin & Kotaru Suzuki vs. Rocky Romero & Taiji Ishimori


----------



## watts63

*MOTYC I Seen So Far*

Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaru Sukuzi & Ricky Marvin (Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/21/07) ****1/2

John Cena vs. Umaga (WWE Royal Rumble '07) ****1/2

Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishma (ROH FYF: NYC) ****

El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe (ROH FYF: Philly) ****

Low Ki vs. Roderick Strong (IWA-MS HURT 2007) ****

John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels II (WWE RAW 4/23/07) ****


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima - RoH: FYF NYC - ****1/4

Thought it was at least as good as Joe vs. Kobashi. Less atmosphere, but better storytelling with Mori dominating Joe in both power and quickness, something Joe's not used to. Joe could only control with his vicious strikes, the one thing Mori couldn't match. It makes sense in terms of history, as Joe went shot for shot with Kobashi in the aforementioned match and Mori's not quite there yet. 

The finisher exchanges were expected, but still hot and done with build to each rather than the usual "You hit yours then I'll counter something and hit mine" 30 second booking usually used. Down the closing stretch, Joe's use of the Half-Nelson Suplex was a nice nod to his matches with Kobashi and also logical in the sense of using the move of a NOAH ace to put down a NOAH star. The Choke finish was well done too, with Morishima fighting as much as he can but Joe using the same tenacity and viciousness that got him the advantage earlier to hold on and get the win. Great stuff here and the best Joe in RoH match in a very long time.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Finally starting to catch up, pimped Castagnoli vs. Quackenbush from CHIKARA last night. Prettygood, but not a MOTYC at all. Claudios ear work was interesting butway too long and waytoo pointless. What, does it prevent that left side of the head headbutt? It was fun down the stretchbut was never out of this world quick or anything, and the ref bump finish was annoying. ***1/2


----------



## Superkick_Kid

Here's a list I've compiled with help from others:


Edge vs. Shawn Michaels - Street Fight WWE Raw 1/22
John Cena vs. Umaga - Last Man Standing, WWE Royal Rumble 1/28
Money in the Bank 3 - WWE Wrestlemania 23 4/1
Undertaker vs. Batista - WWE Wrestlemania 23 4/1
Shawn Michaels vs. John Cena - WWE Wrestlemania 23 4/1
ECW Originals vs. The New Breed - Extreme Rules ECW on Sci Fi 4/3
Samoa Joe vs Christian Cage - TNA Destination X 3/11
Team Angle vs Team Cage - TNA Lockdown 4/15
Shawn Michaels vs John Cena - WWE Raw 4/23
Samoa Joe vs Takeshi Morishima
Chris Benoit vs MVP - WWE Smackdown
The Briscoe Brothers vs Ricky Marvin and Kotaro Suzuki
John Cena vs Umaga - WWE New Years Revolution 1/7
Royal Rumble Match - WWE Royal Rumble 1/28
Undertaker vs Finlay - WWE Smackdown
Cena vs Edge vs Michaels vs Orton - WWE Backlash 4/29
Edge vs Randy Orton - WWE Raw 4/30


----------



## Role Model

Not sure why you have MITB3 and no DX/Rated RKO from NYR on that list.


----------



## -Destiny-

The best match I have seen this year is probabaly Cena/Michales from Raw, but imo it didn't come across as great on T.V as it did watching live, mainly due to the commercials.


----------



## Role Model

Yeah it did spoil it slightly due to the fact it meant bits of the match were missed. I still think it came across very well on TV, live it was amazing though.


----------



## Superkick_Kid

Killah B. said:


> The best match I have seen this year is probabaly Cena/Michales from Raw, but imo it didn't come across as great on T.V as it did watching live, mainly due to the commercials.


I taped it and fast forwarded through the commercials. It went much smoother that way.


----------



## sXe Pac

Watched Dedicated. Solid show but nothing no real MOTYC even though I enjoyed Nigel Vs Joe.

I'm gonna watch Battle of the Icons now. It looks like there isn't any MOTYC but it has a good lineup and promises to be a good show.

Then it's FYF.


----------



## Dom479

Im not a Cena fan i hate him, But his match against SHawn Michaels at WM22 was easily the best of the year.


----------



## MrPaiMei

sXe Pac said:


> Watched Dedicated. Solid show but nothing no real MOTYC even though I enjoyed Nigel Vs Joe.
> 
> I'm gonna watch Battle of the Icons now. It looks like there isn't any MOTYC but it has a good lineup and promises to be a good show.
> 
> Then it's FYF.


The six man is a good ****, but theres no MOTYCs. Jimmy-BJ and Nigel-Rave are both quite entertaining, though.


----------



## sXe Pac

Jimmy Rave puked himself all over during the match. He looked pretty messed up dunno what happened to him.

That match shouldn't have been the opeining match. It just doesn't have that opening match feeling. It's more like a match for the upper card.


----------



## Spartanlax

Well, I gotta throw another TNA match into the MOTYC thread; Chris Harris vs James Storm. Quite possibly the best hardcore match TNA has ever had. This was such an emotional contest, that felt like a real, legit fight between two men who now hate each other. The spots made sense and were FRESH, out-of-nowhere but sensible type stuff. Also, the selling was quite good, and both men went all out. Plus, I'm still trying to figure out whether both men bladed or got legit cut, because if they bladed...these are two of the best blade jobs ever, and Storm literally wears a crimson mask (I swear, at the very end of the match, he's a 10 on the Muta scale). Awesome, awesome match, which I'd give a ****1/2 on the first viewing.


----------



## ROH

Briscoes/Daniels and Sydal from ROH, FYF: Chicago. The match I've enjoyed most from this year, and surprisingly I haven't enjoted much from this year.

Rating: ****1/2.


----------



## KeepItFresh

Naomichi Marufuji & Atsushi Aoki vs. Bryan Danielson & Taiji Ishimori -****1/2 from NOAH's SEM Show sometime this year.


----------



## sXe Pac

Morishima Vs Joe was very good. Looked like Godzilla Vs King Kong and both with both being pretty agile for their side. Some roided up guys in the WWE could take agility lessons from both.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Spartanlax said:


> Well, I gotta throw another TNA match into the MOTYC thread; Chris Harris vs James Storm. Quite possibly the best hardcore match TNA has ever had. This was such an emotional contest, that felt like a real, legit fight between two men who now hate each other. The spots made sense and were FRESH, out-of-nowhere but sensible type stuff. Also, the selling was quite good, and both men went all out. Plus, I'm still trying to figure out whether both men bladed or got legit cut, because if they bladed...these are two of the best blade jobs ever, and Storm literally wears a crimson mask (I swear, at the very end of the match, he's a 10 on the Muta scale). Awesome, awesome match, which I'd give a ****1/2 on the first viewing.


I hope that was a typo and you meant 1.0 on the Muta scale, cause a 10 would be clinically dead 5 times over. Very excited to see that match, gonna download it and Joe-AJ, even though Joe-AJ sounds like the exact same match from TTMU.

And ****1/2 for a SEM match?????? THAT I'll have to peep out.


----------



## Spartanlax

MrPaiMei said:


> I hope that was a typo and you meant 1.0 on the Muta scale, cause a 10 would be clinically dead 5 times over. Very excited to see that match, gonna download it and Joe-AJ, even though Joe-AJ sounds like the exact same match from TTMU.
> 
> And ****1/2 for a SEM match?????? THAT I'll have to peep out.


Haha, wasn't a typo; I just forgot it's 0-1 instead of 1-10, haha. And you'll be pleasenty suprised with the Joe/Styles match; it's like no match they've ever hard before. Tons of new action, combos, spots, etc. Played it safe, so nothing breath taking, but it's a very solid match worthy of a pretty good rating.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Awesome. DL'd em both and will watch em tonight if I'm not feeling raw. Joe vs. AJ is pretty much my favorite pairing their is so I'm very excited, to say the least.



Keep_It_Fresh said:


> Naomichi Marufuji & Atsushi Aoki vs. Bryan Danielson & Taiji Ishimori -****1/2 from NOAH's SEM Show sometime this year.


Care to up this? I can't find it anywear. I didn't even know this show had aired yet, SEM usually takes months.


----------



## Thats_howIroll

Looks like I need to rewatch Cena vs HBk from Mania and Tista vs Taker from backlash. Along with watching HBK vs Cena III, All the ROH MOTYC and Storm vs Harris.


----------



## sXe Pac

Harris Vs Storm was brutal. You've got to love the finish. It makes so fucking sence considering what they went through and damn was Storm a bloody mess at the end.

Without a question MOTYC and a very real one. Got to watch Briscoe Vs Briscoe now.


----------



## Role Model

I watched Briscoe Vs Briscoe today, pretty badass indeed.


----------



## sXe Pac

My MOTYC list so far (no real order yet):

MITB Ladder Match III
Samoa Joe Vs Christian Cage
Undertaker Vs Batista
Edge Vs Cena Vs Orton Vs HBK
Strong Vs Low Ki
Harris Vs Storm
Lynn Vs Sabin (2/3 Falls)


----------



## KeepItFresh

MrPaiMei said:


> Awesome. DL'd em both and will watch em tonight if I'm not feeling raw. Joe vs. AJ is pretty much my favorite pairing their is so I'm very excited, to say the least.
> 
> 
> Care to up this? I can't find it anywear. I didn't even know this show had aired yet, SEM usually takes months.


It was early this month, I think. I downloaded it from PWT and if I uploaded it would be the whole show and I think thats against the rules. If you have a PWT account just search SEM and it should show up.


----------



## Corey

I saw two MOTYC in the ROH FYF: Finale. Briscoe vs. Briscoe is ****1/2 - ****3/4 and Nigel vs. Rave in the Fight Without Honor is ****1/2 in my books.


----------



## CMAngle33

The Backlash World Championship matches have been mentioned, but I know a **** NYWC match that hasn't: Dan Barry vs Quiet Storm vs Javi-Air vs Benny Martinez vs Grim Reefer from Psycho Circus. It won't make it but was great. PM for upload.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

It's probably been mentioned, but someone should really pin this so we don't lose track of it. Just saying...


----------



## T-C

TheUnholyDragon said:


> It's probably been mentioned, but someone should really pin this so we don't lose track of it. Just saying...


Yea I mentioned this earlier.

Anyway, Joe vs Nigel from the Liverpool show was just great, I'm not into star ratings, but this is definetly one of the best matches that I have seen this year.


----------



## Future Star

that's cool said:


> Yea I mentioned this earlier.
> 
> Anyway, Joe vs Nigel from the Liverpool show was just great, I'm not into star ratings, but this is definetly one of the best matches that I have seen this year.


definately, i had it at around ****1/2, maybe a little high, but i just loved this


----------



## Corey

^^ I liked Joe/Cide over Joe/McGuinness. None of them are MOTYC in my eyes but Joe/Cide stands at **** - ****1/4 and Joe/Nigel at ***3/4. My current MOTY is Nigel/Jimmy in the Fight Without Honor from FYF: Finale. ****1/2.


----------



## T-C

Jack Evans 187 said:


> ^^ I liked Joe/Cide over Joe/McGuinness. None of them are MOTYC in my eyes but Joe/Cide stands at **** - ****1/4 and Joe/Nigel at ***3/4. My current MOTY is Nigel/Jimmy in the Fight Without Honor from FYF: Finale. ****1/2.


The way in which Joe and Nigel played with the crowd in that match was just perfect. The crowd was pro-Joe for the first 3/4 of the match but for the last few minutes people were going totally apeshit for Nigel, it was crazy being there. They maintained the heat really well throughout, and the people popping huge for the false finishes. Whenever he did that rebound roll-up I was so sure that he had the pin, great false-finish. Nigel's lariat variations are almost at Hansen level now aswell, yes I said it.


----------



## El Conquistador

My match of the year is the Motor City Machine Guns vs. The Briscoes from "Good Times, Great Memories". I can't wait until the DVD is released and I get to relive the match for a second time. Best match of the year so far, everybody should be anticipating it as much as I am, I promise you all, it wont let you down.

A close second for me is Jay/Mark at Finale. On a side note, the guy that mentioned MITB III being a possible MOTYC needs to stop hallucinating, that wasn't even the best MITB. Here's my top five:

1) "Good Times, Great Memories": Briscoes vs. Motor City Machine Guns (****3/4)
2) "FYF: Finale": Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe (****1/2)
3) "NJPW (4-13-07)": Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (****1/3)
4) "FYF: NYC": Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima (****1/3)
5) "Royal Rumble 2007": John Cena vs. Umaga (****1/4)


----------



## Future Star

^^^no nigel/rave from finale?


----------



## El Conquistador

Future Star said:


> ^^^no nigel/rave from finale?


No, I don't even think it was their best match out of the series of the matches they had together. The Final Battle 2006 match impressed me more than that. Rave/Nigel doesn't even graze the top 10 for me. I have SyDaniels vs. The Briscoes, Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs (FYF: Chicago), John Cena vs. HBK (Raw), Morishima vs. Homicide (FYF: Philly), and Joe/Nigel (FYF: Liverpool) all ahead of it. A couple of Puro matches are in front of that too, IMO.


----------



## SuperDuperDragon

Samoa Joe vs. Low Ki PWG ASW V Night 2


----------



## watts63

SuperDuperDragon said:


> Samoa Joe vs. Low Ki PWG ASW V Night 2


Finally someone names a PWG match in this thread lol.


----------



## T-C

Rave vs Nigel at Finale was good but it did lack a bit of emotion. It was almost as if it was just an exhibition of bumps on Jimmy's part. Also why in the hell would anyone after taking a Tower Of London on to a meatal freakin' guardrail then start headbutting his opponent. After that Tower of London, Nigel should have hit the death lariat and pinned him. Rave almost worked the match as a babyface which just seemed stupid. This might be in my top 20 so far but not near the top.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Watched Harris vs. Storm. Awesome, old school brawl. The finish, especially, of Harris beating Storm to the draw was great. Little too much "spot, rest, spot" in the middle after the crowd brawling, but still great. Not to the level of Nigel vs. Rave though. ****1/4


----------



## Homicide_187

M.W. said:


> My match of the year is the Motor City Machine Guns vs. The Briscoes from "Good Times, Great Memories". I can't wait until the DVD is released and I get to relive the match for a second time. Best match of the year so far, everybody should be anticipating it as much as I am, I promise you all, it wont let you down.
> 
> A close second for me is Jay/Mark at Finale. On a side note, the guy that mentioned MITB III being a possible MOTYC needs to stop hallucinating, that wasn't even the best MITB. Here's my top five:
> 
> 1) *"Good Times, Great Memories": Briscoes vs. Motor City Machine Guns (****3/4)*
> 2) "FYF: Finale": Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe (****1/2)
> 3) "NJPW (4-13-07)": Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (****1/3)
> 4) "FYF: NYC": Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima (****1/3)
> 5) "Royal Rumble 2007": John Cena vs. Umaga (****1/4)


I can't wait to see this match to see if it can top my current ROH MOTY (Jay vs Mark at FYF)


----------



## Sephiroth

M.W. said:


> My match of the year is the Motor City Machine Guns vs. The Briscoes from "Good Times, Great Memories". I can't wait until the DVD is released and I get to relive the match for a second time. Best match of the year so far, everybody should be anticipating it as much as I am, I promise you all, it wont let you down.
> 
> A close second for me is Jay/Mark at Finale. On a side note, the guy that mentioned MITB III being a possible MOTYC needs to stop hallucinating, that wasn't even the best MITB. Here's my top five:
> 
> 1) "Good Times, Great Memories": Briscoes vs. Motor City Machine Guns (****3/4)
> 2) "FYF: Finale": Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe (****1/2)
> 3) "NJPW (4-13-07)": Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (****1/3)
> 4) "FYF: NYC": Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima (****1/3)
> 5) "Royal Rumble 2007": John Cena vs. Umaga (****1/4)


my list is almost the same except i haven't seen Nagata vs. Tanahashi. it's on my too watch list along with some CTU matches, MiSu title defenses, and AJPW's Champion's Carnival this year.

(has MiSu vs. Tajiri been booked yet? or has it happened?)

my top 5 has to be this:

1) Good Times, Great Memories: The Briscoes vs. Murder City Machine Guns (****3/4)
2) Supercard of Honor 2: Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer (Cage Match) (****1/2)
3) FYF: Finale: Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe (****1/2)
4) Briscoes vs. Suzuki & Marvin (****1/4)
5) Royal Rumble: John Cena vs. Umaga (****1/4)

i can't wait to see Briscoes vs. CC & Sydal from the ROH PPV. i hope that tops all expectations and hype.


----------



## El Conquistador

Homicide_187 said:


> I can't wait to see this match to see if it can top my current ROH MOTY (Jay vs Mark at FYF)


I think it could go either way, personally I enjoyed both of the matches but with the dusty finish at the end of Briscoe/Briscoe, I just believe there was some room for improvement. 

The action started off slow with some cheating tactics from both Shelley & Sabin. They were goofing off and joking around for the first couple of minutes. Eventually though, the pace picked up with awesome double team moves and finishers. Time after time again, everybody in the match was isolated at some point and somehow kicked out of all the high impact moves. Atmosphere wise, it was awesome. People were mostly rooting and cheering for Sabin/Shelley (A couple other people and I were cheering for The Briscoes).

Lately I've seen Sydal/Daniels vs. Jay/Mark from "FYF: Chicago" rated about ****1/2. Personally I thought it was about ****'s. I don't know if you managed to get a hold of that match and watch it, but if you liked that, Motor City Machine Guns vs. The Briscoes was ten times better, IMO. It put that match to shame.


----------



## watts63

New MOTYC By PWG:

PWG DDT4 Tag Team Tournament Night One: Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA ****1/4-****1/2


----------



## ROH

Some after my recent ROH binge:

ROH FYF: Finale: Mark Briscoe vs Jay Briscoe
ROH FYF: Finale: Shingo and Doi vs the No Remorse Corps (maybe not a real MOTYC, still real good though)
ROH All Star Extravaganza 3: Team Dragon Gate vs Team ROH.

^ all ****1/2 from me.


----------



## Future Star

My new MOTY is Jimmy Jacobs vs BJ Whitner Cage Match from SCOH II. What a friggin match, they basically killed each other ****3/4 from me


----------



## KingKicks

Future Star said:


> My new MOTY is Jimmy Jacobs vs BJ Whitner Cage Match from SCOH II. What a friggin match, they basically killed each other ****3/4 from me


Just finished watching this, and i have to agree. It was an incredibly brutal and bloody match with Jimmy acting like a great sicko in it. I also rate this ****3/4


----------



## T-C

Just finished watching the big 7 on 7 Dragon Gate match between Typhoon and MO'Z, and it was terrific. It was your typical Dragon Gate non' stop sprint match that you would expect, but it had many other stories intertwined in that sprint. Really good stuff. If anyone is interested in seeing it I uploaded it here.

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other...wz-14-man-elimination-match-17-04-2007-a.html


----------



## Armagreth

that's cool said:


> Just finished watching the big 7 on 7 Dragon Gate match between Typhoon and MO'Z, and it was terrific. It was your typical Dragon Gate non' stop sprint match that you would expect, but it had many other stories intertwined in that sprint. Really good stuff. If anyone is interested in seeing it I uploaded it here.
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other...wz-14-man-elimination-match-17-04-2007-a.html


I'll check that out tonight, ta for the UL.

Just finished watching Out with the Old.... and Kingston/Hero is amazing, MOTYC with a strong running so far.


----------



## MrPaiMei

I watched that DG match a little while back, and I wasn't feelin it as a MOTYC. It didn't really pick it up till it was 4 v. 4, and its not like it was good heel heat, it was just...moves. It did pick up, and the post match angle was damn good, too. ***3/4, maybe.


----------



## T-C

MrPaiMei said:


> I watched that DG match a little while back, and I wasn't feelin it as a MOTYC. It didn't really pick it up till it was 4 v. 4, and its not like it was good heel heat, it was just...moves. It did pick up, and the post match angle was damn good, too. ***3/4, maybe.


I wasn't hailing it as a legit MOTYC, I was just saying that it is a match that people should definetly check out.


----------



## McQueen

that's cool said:


> I wasn't hailing it as a legit MOTYC, I was just saying that it is a match that people should definetly check out.


I watched that match last night and boy it was fun, not a MOTY as said but still a fantastic match. T.C. get us some Liger in DG *hint*  

I watched BJ/Jacobs Steel Cage last night as although I really enjoyed the match I wouldn't call it MOTY as there were certain aspects of it that bothered me (ie easiest one to mension is)


Spoiler



whitmer's complete no sell of missing the top of the cage superfly


, and to be honest I still think Briscoe/Joe cage match is the best one in ROH history. However I must say about the match, I'm thinking 4 1/4 on my rating maybe 4 1/2 but I will be rewatching it later. However Jimmy Jacobs' performance throughout the closing days of the fued and this match has been fantastic and really raised the guys stock in my eyes. I am starting to see him credible enough for a title run in the future (or a job in the WWE).


----------



## T-C

McQueen said:


> I watched that match last night and boy it was fun, not a MOTY as said but still a fantastic match. T.C. get us some Liger in DG *hint*
> 
> I watched BJ/Jacobs Steel Cage last night as although I really enjoyed the match I wouldn't call it MOTY as there were certain aspects of it that bothered me (ie easiest one to mension is)
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> whitmer's complete no sell of missing the top of the cage superfly
> 
> 
> , and to be honest I still think Briscoe/Joe cage match is the best one in ROH history. However I must say about the match, I'm thinking 4 1/4 on my rating maybe 4 1/2 but I will be rewatching it later. However Jimmy Jacobs' performance throughout the closing days of the fued and this match has been fantastic and really raised the guys stock in my eyes. I am starting to see him credible enough for a title run in the future (or a job in the WWE).


That was subtle.

No doubt that Jimmy has made that feud. I can't wait to see that cage match.

I would really love to see what Jimmy would be able to accomplish with a really top notch brawler, like Necro maybe, because it BJ has really just been riding on Jimmy's coattails throughout this feud.


----------



## McQueen

that's cool said:


> That was subtle.
> 
> No doubt that Jimmy has made that feud. I can't wait to see that cage match.
> 
> I would really love to see what Jimmy would be able to accomplish with a really top notch brawler, like Necro maybe, because it BJ has really just been riding on Jimmy's coattails throughout this feud.


Haha, yeah Jacobs vs Necro would be interesting! I like whitmer and we've talked about that before but I do agree with you that Jimmy was the one carrying the fued and it's pretty painfully obvious he is once the FYF comes around. Still the Cage match was a fitting end to there fued and i'm glad it's over, but in a way jimmy is the one losing out because he got injured right when he had a huge wave of momentum going.


----------



## T-C

McQueen said:


> Haha, yeah Jacobs vs Necro would be interesting! I like whitmer and we've talked about that before but I do agree with you that Jimmy was the one carrying the fued and it's pretty painfully obvious he is once the FYF comes around. Still the Cage match was a fitting end to there fued and i'm glad it's over, but in a way jimmy is the one losing out because he got injured right when he had a huge wave of momentum going.


Agreed, I would have loved to have seen what Jimmy could have done with that win behind him. 

By the way that Dynamite/Hansen match was upped with you in mind.:hb


----------



## Corey

ROH Supercard of Honor II has two MOTYC. BJ/Jimmy in the cage I currently have ****1/2. But my current MOTY is the Dragon Gate 6-Man, which I have at ****3/4. Great show.


----------



## sXe Pac

Just watched Briscoes/Doi & Shingo from FYF: Liverpool and it was a great match. Definitely a MOTYC if you ask me.


----------



## MrPaiMei

SPOILER









Really, of all the no selling in the match, the cage dive bothered you? I didn't see it as a big deal at all, he's doing a splash so he has the ability to protect himself. MOTYCs from Mania weekend are the cage match and the six man, both of which I'll rewatch later but are atleast ****1/2. The roderick matches and the 3/30 main are also great **** or so, but not at the level of the other two.


----------



## El Conquistador

Necro Butcher vs. Masada from IWA-MS Sunday Bloody Sunday was a hard hitting, excellent match, potentially the IWA-MS match of the year this far, although I wouldn't put it in front of Roderick/Low Ki from Hurt. I have Necro/Masada at ****1/3, the range has been anywhere from **** to ****1/2, watch it if you get time, I highly recommend it.

As for an entertainment standpoint, Josh Abercrombie vs. Brandon Thomaselli was damn good. I have it at ***3/4. Realistically, it's not a match of the year candidate because of the TLC Match looking unrealistic at the beginning but the pace picks up and the selling is absolutely outstanding from the middle to the end.


----------



## Homicide_187

M.W. said:


> Necro Butcher vs. Masada from IWA-MS Sunday Bloody Sunday was a hard hitting, excellent match, potentially the IWA-MS match of the year this far, although I wouldn't put it in front of Roderick/Low Ki from Hurt. I have Necro/Masada at ****1/3, the range has been anywhere from **** to ****1/2, watch it if you get time, I highly recommend it.


I hope someone uploads Butcher/Masada


----------



## El Conquistador

Homicide_187 said:


> I hope someone uploads Butcher/Masada


Don't want to get your hopes up, but I MIGHT be able to do it. After I buy the DVD along with other IWA-MS DVD's tomorrow at the Candido Cup, I could check and see if my joiner and Windows Movie Maker is working. Last month it wasn't when I was trying to work on February Fury and Dedication, so I just kind of gave up. Hopefully you'll be in luck and it will work, but by no means expect it, Cide'.


----------



## KeepItFresh

The Finals of the GPWA Differ Cup are amazing. I'd say who was involved in the match, but that may spoil the tournament for some. **** 3/4.

You'd have to watch the whole tournament to get why I'd rate this high, probably. Both teams using everything they could. Trying to use the things that won the earlier matches in tournament, but everything is being broken up. Then both teams get desperate and try using other things to beat their opponents, but neither could pick it up there. Then the finish was great proving that both teams really wanted to pick the victory at all costs.


----------



## The_Boogey_Man

Homicide_187 said:


> I hope someone uploads Butcher/Masada


Well your in luck cause i happen to have that match. My cousin ripped it for me off the DVD. Ill upload it ASAP.


----------



## ROH

New CHIKARA MOTYC:

Chris Hero vs Claudio Castagnoli - Reys de Volodores (****_****1/4)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ROH MOTYC (This my MOTY so far, and I don't think anything in the future this year can top it!)

CIMA, Shingo and Susumu Yokozuka vs Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito and Masaaki Mochuzuki - ROH SuperCard of Honor 2 (*****)


----------



## watts63

I need a complete list of MOTYCs because I am wayyyyyyyy behind right now. Only MOTYC matches I seen is on my sig. I give rep to ppl for does it for me.


----------



## Sephiroth

watts63 said:


> I need a complete list of MOTYCs because I am wayyyyyyyy behind right now. Only MOTYC matches I seen is on my sig. I give rep to ppl for does it for me.


you mean from this thread or a quick MOTYC list that most people can agree on?


----------



## watts63

sephy37 said:


> you mean from this thread or a quick MOTYC list that most people can agree on?


Quick MOTYC list that most people can agree on.


----------



## Sephiroth

Here you go Watts, I put this together for you.

Note: I have not seen some of them and I'm going on word of mouth whether they are or not. Also where I've put "None (Help me figure this out)", that means I couldn't think of any (for SD and ECW that applies) and the others I do not follow enough to know (like IWA: MS, CZW, AJPW, or NJPW). Also if there's something you guys think should be added, let me know and I'll add it.

----------------

WWE PPV:
Royal Rumble - John Cena vs. Umaga (Last Man Standing)
Royal Rumble - The Royal Rumble
Wrestlemania 23 - Batista vs. The Undertaker
Wrestlemania 23 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels
Backlash - Undertaker vs. Batista
Backlash - John Cena vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels

WWE Raw:
April 23rd - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels
April 30th - Edge vs. Randy Orton

WWE ECW:
None (Help me figure this out)

WWE Smackdown:
None (Help me figure this out)

TNA PPV:
Final Resolution - Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe (30 Minute Ironman)
Against All Odds - Christian Cage vs. Kurt Angle
Destination X - Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe
Lockdown - Team Cage (Christian Cage, A.J. Styles, Scott Steiner, Abyss, & Tomko) vs. Team Angle (Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe, Rhino, Sting, & Jeff Jarrett)
Sacrifice - Chris Harris vs. James Storm (Texas Deathmatch)

TNA iMPACT:

None (Help me figure this out)

ROH:
FYF: NYC - Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima
FYF: Chicago - Christopher Daniels & Matt Sydal vs. The Briscoes
FYF: Liverpool - The Briscoes vs. Naruki Doi & SHINGO
FYF: Liverpool - Samoa Joe vs. Nigel McGuinness
FYF: Finale - Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe
FYF: Finale - Naruki Doi & SHINGO vs. Roderick Strong & Davey Richards
FYF: Finale - Nigel McGuinness vs. Jimmy Rave
All Star Extravaganza - Austin Aries, Delirious, Claudio Castagnoli, & Rocky Romero vs. CIMA, Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito, & Susumu Yokosuka
Supercard of Honor 2 - Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer (Cage Match)
Supercard of Honor 2 - CIMA, SHINGO, & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito, and Masaaki Mochizuki
Fighting Spirit - Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness
Good Times, Great Memories - Takeshi Morishima vs. SHINGO
Good Times, Great Memories - The Briscoes vs. Murder City Machine Guns (Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin)
Respect Is Earned - Naomichi Marufuji vs. Rocky Romero
Respect Is Earned - The Briscoes vs. Claudio Castagnoli & Matt Sydal

Chikara:
Time Will Prove Everything - Claudio Castagnoli vs. Mike Quackenbush
Rey De Voladores - Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli
Anniversario? - Chris Hero vs. Mike Quackenbush

CZW: (Thanks to The_Boogey_Man)
Out With The Old, In With The New - Chris Hero vs. Eddie Kingston (Loser Leaves Town)

FIP: 
Eddie Graham Memorial Battle of the Belts - Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens
The Briscoes vs. Madman Pondo & Necro Butcher

PWG:
Based On A True Story - Joey Ryan vs. Human Tornado (Guerrilla Warfare)
Holy Diver Down - Murder City Machine Guns (Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin) vs. Arrogance (Scott Lost & Chris Bosh)
Holy Diver Down - Human Tornado vs. El Generico
All Star Weekend V: Night 1 - Low Ki vs. Davey Richards
All Star Weekend V: Night 1 - El Generico vs. Pac
All Star Weekend VL Night 2 - Samoa Joe vs. Low Ki
Dynamite Duumvirate Tag Team Title Tournament: Night 1 - CIMA vs. Bryan Danielson
Dynamite Duumvirate Tag Team Title Tournament: Night 2 - El Generico vs. CIMA
Dynamite Duumvirate Tag Team Title Tournament: Night 2 - The Briscoes vs. Roderick Strong & Pac

IWA: MS: (Thanks to The_Boogey_Man)
Necro Butcher vs. Masada (Street Fight)
Drake Younger vs. CJ Otis (Barbed Wire Massacre)
Drake Younger vs. CJ Otis (Last Man Standing Match)

Pro Wrestling NOAH:
First Navigation - The Briscoes vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin

Dragon Gate:
None(Help me figure this out)

AJPW:
None (Help me figure this out)

NJPW: (Thanks to McQueen)
Shinsuke Nakamura vs Toshiaki Kawada - 1/4/07
Minoru Suzuki vs Yuji Nagata - 1/4/07
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Koji Kanemoto - 2/18/07
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Yuji Nagata - 4/13/07

BJPW: (Thanks to The_Boogey_Man)
Takashi Sasaki vs. Yuko Miyamoto (Light Tubes & Scafolding Match)


----------



## McQueen

These should be added to your list as MOTY canadates:

NJPW
Shinsuke Nakamura vs Toshiaki Kawada - 1/4/07
Minoru Suzuki vs Yuji Nagata - 1/4/07
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Koji Kanemoto - 2/18/07
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Yuji Nagata - 4/13/07


----------



## Sephiroth

McQueen said:


> These should be added to your list as MOTY canadates:
> 
> NJPW
> Shinsuke Nakamura vs Toshiaki Kawada - 1/4/07
> Minoru Suzuki vs Yuji Nagata - 1/4/07
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Koji Kanemoto - 2/18/07
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Yuji Nagata - 4/13/07


changed it. also i have a question, what would i put the GPWA under? i want to add the finals of the Differ Cup but i'm not sure what banner it falls under since GPWA is just a bunch of them.


----------



## The_Boogey_Man

sephy37 said:


> Here you go Watts, I put this together for you.
> 
> Note: I have not seen some of them and I'm going on word of mouth whether they are or not. Also where I've put "None (Help me figure this out)", that means I couldn't think of any (for SD and ECW that applies) and the others I do not follow enough to know (like IWA: MS, CZW, AJPW, or NJPW). Also if there's something you guys think should be added, let me know and I'll add it.
> 
> ----------------
> 
> WWE PPV:
> Royal Rumble - John Cena vs. Umaga (Last Man Standing)
> Royal Rumble - The Royal Rumble
> Wrestlemania 23 - Batista vs. The Undertaker
> Wrestlemania 23 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels
> Backlash - Undertaker vs. Batista
> Backlash - John Cena vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels
> 
> WWE Raw:
> April 23rd - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels
> April 30th - Edge vs. Randy Orton
> 
> WWE ECW:
> None (Help me figure this out)
> 
> WWE Smackdown:
> None (Help me figure this out)
> 
> TNA PPV:
> Final Resolution - Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe (30 Minute Ironman)
> Against All Odds - Christian Cage vs. Kurt Angle
> Destination X - Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe
> Lockdown - Team Cage (Christian Cage, A.J. Styles, Scott Steiner, Abyss, & Tomko) vs. Team Angle (Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe, Rhino, Sting, & Jeff Jarrett)
> Sacrifice - Chris Harris vs. James Storm (Texas Deathmatch)
> 
> TNA iMPACT:
> 
> None (Help me figure this out)
> 
> ROH:
> FYF: NYC - Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima
> FYF: Chicago - Christopher Daniels & Matt Sydal vs. The Briscoes
> FYF: Liverpool - The Briscoes vs. Naruki Doi & SHINGO
> FYF: Liverpool - Samoa Joe vs. Nigel McGuinness
> FYF: Finale - Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe
> FYF: Finale - Naruki Doi & SHINGO vs. Roderick Strong & Davey Richards
> FYF: Finale - Nigel McGuinness vs. Jimmy Rave
> All Star Extravaganza - Austin Aries, Delirious, Claudio Castagnoli, & Rocky Romero vs. CIMA, Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito, & Susumu Yokosuka
> Supercard of Honor 2 - Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer (Cage Match)
> Supercard of Honor 2 - CIMA, SHINGO, & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito, and Masaaki Mochizuki
> Fighting Spirit - Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness
> Good Times, Great Memories - Takeshi Morishima vs. SHINGO
> Good Times, Great Memories - The Briscoes vs. Murder City Machine Guns (Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin)
> Respect Is Earned - Naomichi Marufuji vs. Rocky Romero
> Respect Is Earned - The Briscoes vs. Claudio Castagnoli & Matt Sydal
> 
> Chikara:
> Time Will Prove Everything - Claudio Castagnoli vs. Mike Quackenbush
> Rey De Voladores - Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli
> Anniversario? - Chris Hero vs. Mike Quackenbush
> 
> *CZW:
> None (Help me figure this out)*
> 
> FIP:
> Eddie Graham Memorial Battle of the Belts - Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens
> The Briscoes vs. Madman Pondo & Necro Butcher
> 
> PWG:
> Based On A True Story - Joey Ryan vs. Human Tornado (Guerrilla Warfare)
> Holy Diver Down - Murder City Machine Guns (Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin) vs. Arrogance (Scott Lost & Chris Bosh)
> Holy Diver Down - Human Tornado vs. El Generico
> All Star Weekend V: Night 1 - Low Ki vs. Davey Richards
> All Star Weekend V: Night 1 - El Generico vs. Pac
> All Star Weekend VL Night 2 - Samoa Joe vs. Low Ki
> Dynamite Duumvirate Tag Team Title Tournament: Night 1 - CIMA vs. Bryan Danielson
> Dynamite Duumvirate Tag Team Title Tournament: Night 2 - El Generico vs. CIMA
> Dynamite Duumvirate Tag Team Title Tournament: Night 2 - The Briscoes vs. Roderick Strong & Pac
> 
> *IWA: MS:
> None (Help me figure this out)*
> 
> Pro Wrestling NOAH:
> First Navigation - The Briscoes vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin
> 
> Dragon Gate:
> None(Help me figure this out)
> 
> AJPW:
> None (Help me figure this out)
> 
> NJPW: (Thanks to McQueen)
> Shinsuke Nakamura vs Toshiaki Kawada - 1/4/07
> Minoru Suzuki vs Yuji Nagata - 1/4/07
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Koji Kanemoto - 2/18/07
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Yuji Nagata - 4/13/07


CZW
Chris Hero vs. Eddie Kingston - Loser Leaves Town

IWA MS
Necro Butcher vs. Masada - Street Fight
Drake Younger vs. CJ Otis - Barbed Wire Massacre
Drake Younger vs. CJ Otis - Last Man Standing Match

Also Another Fed to throw in here is BJPW and here is a great MOTYC from them:

Takashi sasaki vs. Yuko Miyamoto - Light Tubes & Scafolding Match


----------



## McQueen

sephy37 said:


> changed it. also i have a question, what would i put the GPWA under? i want to add the finals of the Differ Cup but i'm not sure what banner it falls under since GPWA is just a bunch of them.


You could just put it under GWPA or do GWPA/NOAH.


----------



## Sephiroth

The_Boogey_Man said:


> CZW
> Chris Hero vs. Eddie Kingston - Loser Leaves Town
> 
> IWA MS
> Necro Butcher vs. Masada - Street Fight
> Drake Younger vs. CJ Otis - Barbed Wire Massacre
> Drake Younger vs. CJ Otis - Last Man Standing Match
> 
> Also Another Fed to throw in here is BJPW and here is a great MOTYC from them:
> 
> Takashi sasaki vs. Yuko Miyamoto - Light Tubes & Scafolding Match


thanks for the help. i can't believe i forgot Hero vs. Kingston. also i've been hearing that BJPW has been having a great year.


----------



## watts63

Thanks guys for the MOTYCs. I will begin watching these matches & somewhat be catching up.


----------



## Corey

Just saw the Last Man Standing match between Cena and Umaga. Wow, that's definitely my current WWE MOTY. I'd give it ****1/2. Great match.


----------



## KingKicks

sephy37 said:


> Here you go Watts, I put this together for you.
> 
> Note: I have not seen some of them and I'm going on word of mouth whether they are or not. Also where I've put "None (Help me figure this out)", that means I couldn't think of any (for SD and ECW that applies) and the others I do not follow enough to know (like IWA: MS, CZW, AJPW, or NJPW). Also if there's something you guys think should be added, let me know and I'll add it.
> 
> ----------------
> 
> WWE PPV:
> Royal Rumble - John Cena vs. Umaga (Last Man Standing)
> Royal Rumble - The Royal Rumble
> Wrestlemania 23 - Batista vs. The Undertaker
> Wrestlemania 23 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels
> Backlash - Undertaker vs. Batista
> Backlash - John Cena vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels
> 
> WWE Raw:
> April 23rd - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels
> April 30th - Edge vs. Randy Orton
> 
> WWE ECW:
> None (Help me figure this out)
> 
> WWE Smackdown:
> None (Help me figure this out)
> 
> TNA PPV:
> Final Resolution - Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe (30 Minute Ironman)
> Against All Odds - Christian Cage vs. Kurt Angle
> Destination X - Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe
> Lockdown - Team Cage (Christian Cage, A.J. Styles, Scott Steiner, Abyss, & Tomko) vs. Team Angle (Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe, Rhino, Sting, & Jeff Jarrett)
> Sacrifice - Chris Harris vs. James Storm (Texas Deathmatch)
> 
> TNA iMPACT:
> 
> None (Help me figure this out)
> 
> ROH:
> FYF: NYC - Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima
> FYF: Chicago - Christopher Daniels & Matt Sydal vs. The Briscoes
> FYF: Liverpool - The Briscoes vs. Naruki Doi & SHINGO
> FYF: Liverpool - Samoa Joe vs. Nigel McGuinness
> FYF: Finale - Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe
> FYF: Finale - Naruki Doi & SHINGO vs. Roderick Strong & Davey Richards
> FYF: Finale - Nigel McGuinness vs. Jimmy Rave
> All Star Extravaganza - Austin Aries, Delirious, Claudio Castagnoli, & Rocky Romero vs. CIMA, Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito, & Susumu Yokosuka
> Supercard of Honor 2 - Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer (Cage Match)
> Supercard of Honor 2 - CIMA, SHINGO, & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito, and Masaaki Mochizuki
> Fighting Spirit - Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness
> Good Times, Great Memories - Takeshi Morishima vs. SHINGO
> Good Times, Great Memories - The Briscoes vs. Murder City Machine Guns (Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin)
> Respect Is Earned - Naomichi Marufuji vs. Rocky Romero
> Respect Is Earned - The Briscoes vs. Claudio Castagnoli & Matt Sydal
> 
> Chikara:
> Time Will Prove Everything - Claudio Castagnoli vs. Mike Quackenbush
> Rey De Voladores - Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli
> Anniversario? - Chris Hero vs. Mike Quackenbush
> 
> CZW: (Thanks to The_Boogey_Man)
> Out With The Old, In With The New - Chris Hero vs. Eddie Kingston (Loser Leaves Town)
> 
> FIP:
> Eddie Graham Memorial Battle of the Belts - Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens
> The Briscoes vs. Madman Pondo & Necro Butcher
> 
> PWG:
> Based On A True Story - Joey Ryan vs. Human Tornado (Guerrilla Warfare)
> Holy Diver Down - Murder City Machine Guns (Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin) vs. Arrogance (Scott Lost & Chris Bosh)
> Holy Diver Down - Human Tornado vs. El Generico
> All Star Weekend V: Night 1 - Low Ki vs. Davey Richards
> All Star Weekend V: Night 1 - El Generico vs. Pac
> All Star Weekend VL Night 2 - Samoa Joe vs. Low Ki
> Dynamite Duumvirate Tag Team Title Tournament: Night 1 - CIMA vs. Bryan Danielson
> Dynamite Duumvirate Tag Team Title Tournament: Night 2 - El Generico vs. CIMA
> Dynamite Duumvirate Tag Team Title Tournament: Night 2 - The Briscoes vs. Roderick Strong & Pac
> 
> IWA: MS: (Thanks to The_Boogey_Man)
> Necro Butcher vs. Masada (Street Fight)
> Drake Younger vs. CJ Otis (Barbed Wire Massacre)
> Drake Younger vs. CJ Otis (Last Man Standing Match)
> 
> Pro Wrestling NOAH:
> First Navigation - The Briscoes vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin
> 
> Dragon Gate:
> None(Help me figure this out)
> 
> AJPW:
> None (Help me figure this out)
> 
> NJPW: (Thanks to McQueen)
> Shinsuke Nakamura vs Toshiaki Kawada - 1/4/07
> Minoru Suzuki vs Yuji Nagata - 1/4/07
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Koji Kanemoto - 2/18/07
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Yuji Nagata - 4/13/07
> 
> BJPW: (Thanks to The_Boogey_Man)
> Takashi Sasaki vs. Yuko Miyamoto (Light Tubes & Scafolding Match)


Also The Windy City Deathmatch between Cabana and Jacobs.


----------



## Future Star

benjo said:


> Also The Windy City Deathmatch between Cabana and Jacobs.


i dont think so, i thought that match was a bit overrated


----------



## KingKicks

Future Star said:


> i dont think so, i thought that match was a bit overrated


For me it was, but then again I'm a big Jimmy Jacobs fan so i would overrate it as well


----------



## ROH

^ That match was WELL overrated (WCDM).

Also, *sephy37*, when putting Cage/Angle on the MOTYC list, do you mean TNA MOTYC, or overall MOTYC. I'm hoping and guessing just TNA MOTYC.


----------



## KingKicks

ROH™ said:


> ^ That match was WELL overrated (WCDM).
> 
> Also, *sephy37*, when putting Cage/Angle on the MOTYC list, do you mean TNA MOTYC, or overall MOTYC. I'm hoping and guessing just TNA MOTYC.


Ah ok sorry bout that, I'm spoiler free when it comes to ROH shows so i didn't know it had been overrated.

and the Cage/Angle match i didn't even think was a TNA MOTYC.


----------



## ROH

^ Nah, you don't have to be sorry, it is just pretty overrated though. People on the ROH board have been giving it high MOTYC praise, but all they'd actually said about the match is how much blood it had in it, like blood levels = ratings.


----------



## Cleavage

FYF: Chicago Colt Cabana vs Jimmy Jacobs ( yer it was overrated but i loved it)
Supercard of Honor 2 - Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer (Cage Match)
Sacrifice - Chris Harris vs. James Storm (Texas Deathmatch)


----------



## KingKicks

Finally watched the loser leaves town match between Kingston and Hero, and i gotta say that it really impressed me. I haven't enjoyed a CZW match as much as that since Dutt vs. M Dogg in a loser leaves town match at COD6.


----------



## watts63

Finally watched Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer in the Steel Cage & that match was incredible. ****1/2 is now my #1 MOTYC.


----------



## Corey

Just saw Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli from Chikara Rey De Voladores. It was great. Would've been a little higher if it had a clean finish, but it was awesome anyways. Probably the best Chikara match I've ever seen. ****1/4


----------



## watts63

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid & Maasaki Mochizuki vs. CIMA, SHINGO & Susumu Yokosuka ****1/4​


----------



## Corey

Just saw the GHC Jr. Tag Titles match between The Briscoes and Kotaro Suzuki/Ricky Marvin from NOAH 1/21 I believe. Amazing match. So many awesome double teams, innovative moves, and a bunch of near falls. Currently my NOAH MOTY and probably my Tag MOTY so far. ****1/2 - ****3/4


----------



## watts63

*My Top Five MOTYC So Far*

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****1/2

*CZW Out With The Old, In With The New*
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****1/2

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/21/07*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****1/2

*WWE Royal Rumble '07*
John Cena vs. Umaga ****1/2

*PWG DDT4 Tag Team Title Tournament Night One*
CIMA vs. Bryan Danielson ****1/4-****1/2

Honorable Mention

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid & Maasaki Mochizuki vs. CIMA, SHINGO & Susumu Yokosuka ****1/4​


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Finally got around to watching Cena vs. Umaga from the Rumble, and I have to give it ****1/2 easy. Just a crazy, crazy good brawl unlike most anything seen in WWE.

It's amazing how much dominance Cena has over this thread actually. "Can't work" my ass.


----------



## ENCIRE

Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuiness from last nihgts ROH show


----------



## ROH

^ Were you there?


----------



## Mark.

Jay Briscoe vs Mark Briscoe at FYF Finale


----------



## El Conquistador

Naomichi Marufuji vs. Taiji Ishimori from the NOAH 6/3/07 show was an excellent match. The excitement built up second by second along with the pace of the match. I was thrilled to see the repetition of awesome reversals, another stellar Marufuji performance, and Ishimori pulling off some quality high risk moves.

**** - ****1/3, **** in my book. Realistically, it wont be able to beat out the bad boys like Briscoe/Briscoe but everybody should attempt to check this out.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Hm. Well, here's the list of what I've seen that's over **** this year, organized by increments (worst to best)

I need to get more viewing in.


Edge vs. Randy Orton - WWE Raw - ****
WWE Title: John Cena (c) vs. Umaga - WWE NYR - ****
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima - RoH FYF - ****

NWA Title: Christian Cage (c) vs. Samoa Joe - TNA Destination X - ****1/4

DX vs. Rated RKO - WWE NYR - ****½
WWE Title: John Cena (c) vs. Umaga - Last Man Standing - WWE Royal Rumble - ****½
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - WWE Raw - ****½

BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs - Steel Cage - RoH SoH II - ****3/4
WWE Title: John Cena (c) vs. Shawn Michaels - WWE WM23 - ****3/4


----------



## -Mystery-

Michaels/Cena - ****3/4? I'm sorry but I don't agree. I read your write up on the match on thought the write up was very good but Cena's selling then no selling of his leg brought down the match rating a bit for me. I still gave it a solid ****.

I pretty much agree on everything else you have listed except for Edge/Orton which I rated ***3/4.


----------



## Spartanlax

I'm kinda shocked you think Edge/Orton is as good as Cage/Joe. Cage/Joe was absolutely incredible from start to finish, and Joe looked like such a dominant force, just destroying Cage the entire time while Cage could only get a cheap shot or two in, getting lucky the entire time (which is what his character is, a chickenshit heel who cheats or gets lucky). Plus, Cage trying to get the count out but getting thrown back in by the TNA good guys added so much to the match. Overall, from me, a ****1/2 rating. Edge/Orton was just...well, it was a real good match on RAW, and really nothing more. Don't think it deserves that score, and certainly doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same category as Joe/Cage.


----------



## peep4life

Watched Briscoe/Briscoe and Nigel/Joe both are fantastic but my MOTY is still Cage/Joe, maybe I'm biased but I think that match all around is fantastic.


----------



## Saint Dick

WWE:

Cena vs HBK vs Edge vs Orton (Backlash) - ****1/2
Cena vs HBK (Raw) - ****1/2
Cena vs Umaga (last man standing) - ****1/4
DX vs Rated RKO (NYR) - ****
Batista vs Taker (WM23) - ****
Orton vs Edge (Raw) - ****


----------



## El Conquistador

Here's a list I compiled of everything that I considered around the level of four stars. I probably need to rewatch some of these as I can't recall full sequences of the matches but these are the matches that I deem worthy enough of being potential MOTYC's.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*CZW*

-Out With The Old, In With The New 4/7: Chris Hero vs. Eddie Kingston (Loser Leaves Town)

*IWA-MS*

-Hurt 1/5: Low Ki vs. Roderick Strong

*Japan*

-AJPW Champions Carnival 3/31: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Satoshi Kojima
-AJPW 2/17: Satoshi Kojima vs. Minoru Suzuki
-Dragon Gate: CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid, BXB Hulk, Anthony Mori, & Matt Sydal vs. Magnitude Kishiwada, Naruki Doi, Masata Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi, Gamma, Cyber King, & Jack Evans
-NJPW 4/13: Tanashi vs. Yuji Nagata
-NJPW 1/4: Yuji Nagata vs. Minoru Suzuki
-NOAH 1/21: Briscoes vs. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki
-NOAH 2/24: Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki vs. Taiji Ishimori & Rocky Romero
-NOAH 6/3: Naomichi Marufuji vs. Taiji Ishimori

*ROH*

-All Star Extravaganza III: Austin Aries, Delirious, Claudio Castagnoli, & Rocky Romero vs. CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Dragon Kid, & Ryo Saito
-FYF: Finale: Nigel McGuinness vs. Jimmy Rave (Fight Without Honor)
-FYF: Finale: Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe
-FYF: NYC: Takeshi Morishima vs. Samoa Joe
-FYF: Chicago: Matt Sydal & Christopher Daniels vs. Briscoes
-FYF: Chicago: Jimmy Jacobs vs. Colt Cabana (Windy City Deathmatch)
-Good Times, Great Memories: Briscoes vs. MCMG
-SCOH II: BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs (Steel Cage Warfare)
-SCOH II: Susumu Yokosuka, CIMA, & Shingo vs. Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito, & Masaaki Mochizuki

*TNA*

-Destination X 2007: Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe
-Sacrifice: Chris Harris vs. James Storm (Texas Deathmatch)

*WWE*

-Backlash 2007: HBK vs. Cena vs. Orton vs. Edge
-New Years Revolution: Rated RKO vs. DX
-Royal Rumble 2007: John Cena vs. Umaga (Last Man Standing)
-Wrestlemania 23: Batista vs. Undertaker


----------



## KingKicks

My MOTY's from companies so far from what i've seen are:

*WWE*

Batista vs. Taker - Wrestlemania 23
Batista vs. Taker - Backlash
HBK vs. John Cena - Raw
John Cena vs. Umaga - Royal Rumble 2007

*ROH*

Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima - FYF:NYC
The Briscoes vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico - FYFhilly
Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs - FYF:Chicago
The Briscoes vs. Lords Of The Ring - FYF:Chicago
Samoa Joe vs. Nigel McGuiness - FYF:Liverpool
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe - FYF:Finale
Nigel McGuiness vs. Jimmy Rave - FYF:Finale
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer - SOH2 (My Number 1 MOTY)
Susumu Yokosuka, CIMA, & Shingo vs. Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito, & Masaaki Mochizuki - SOH2
Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuiness - Fighting Spirit
The Briscoes vs. Claudio Castagnoli and Matt Sydal - Respect Is Earned
Rocky Romero vs. Naomichi Marufuji - Respect Is Earned (Some people don't agree with this but being a big fan of both men, and my first time seeing both live, i absoloutely loved it)

*TNA*

Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe - Destination X
Chris Harris vs. James Storm - Sacrifice

*CZW*

Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero - Out With the Old, In With The New

*Japan*

The Briscoes vs. Ricky Marvin and Kotaro Suzuki - NOAH 1/21
Yuji Nagata vs. Minoru Suzuki - Wrestle Kingdom In The Tokyo Dome


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

-Mystery- said:


> Michaels/Cena - ****3/4? I'm sorry but I don't agree. I read your write up on the match on thought the write up was very good but Cena's selling then no selling of his leg brought down the match rating a bit for me. I still gave it a solid ****.
> 
> I pretty much agree on everything else you have listed except for Edge/Orton which I rated ***3/4.


Here's the way I see it...if he had continued to sell, then no-sell it through the match, it would have been stupid. But he didn't. He powered through it, shook it off, and that was that. In all reality, Shawn hadn't done any major work on it and therefore it stood to reason that Cena could shake it off fairly quickly.

I also love the story of the match, the intensity, and the closing stretch more than any other match this year. In fact, the only reason it's NOT ***** is occasional selling problems, but I didn't feel they detracted from the match any more than that.



Spartanlax said:


> I'm kinda shocked you think Edge/Orton is as good as Cage/Joe. Cage/Joe was absolutely incredible from start to finish, and Joe looked like such a dominant force, just destroying Cage the entire time while Cage could only get a cheap shot or two in, getting lucky the entire time (which is what his character is, a chickenshit heel who cheats or gets lucky). Plus, Cage trying to get the count out but getting thrown back in by the TNA good guys added so much to the match. Overall, from me, a ****1/2 rating. Edge/Orton was just...well, it was a real good match on RAW, and really nothing more. Don't think it deserves that score, and certainly doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same category as Joe/Cage.


This is one of those cases where two matches have the same rating despite one being notably better in my mind. In all truth, I was debating between ***3/4 and **** for Edge/Orton, but the intensity and great nearfalls just gave it the nod into **** territory. 

As for Cage vs. Joe...I really liked it, and it's on the high end of ****. Could probably bump it up to ****1/4 (and I might, actually, after I post this) but that's about all I got from it. It was a really good monster vs. chickenshit heel match, but it was a touch formulaic and plain at times for me. I'd go into detail, but I'm waaaay too tired right now.

I'm *really* going to get hate for this, but I actually enjoyed Cage vs. Jarrett from last year's Against All Odds better for the babyface vs. chickenshit heel act.


----------



## Seb

Cena V Michaels from RAW


----------



## Corey

Just finished watching the ROH vs. Dragon Gate 8-Man Tag from All Star Extravaganza III. Holy shit was that insane. Non-stop action the whole way through. My only problem was that it was Yokosuka's first ROH appearance and he didn't get much offense at all. But that doesn't take anything away from the rating. I'd give it ****1/2.

*ROH MOTYC (****+)*
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima (FYF: NYC) - ****
The Briscoes vs. Kevin Steen/El Generico (FYF: Philly) - ****1/4
Roderick Strong vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Pelle Primeau vs. Shingo vs. Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Cross (FYF: Dayton) - **** to ****1/4
Windy City Death Match: Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs (FYF: Chicago) - ****
The Briscoes vs. Shingo/Naruki Doi (FYF: Liverpool) - **** to ****1/4
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe (FYF: Finale) - ****1/2
Shingo/Naruki Doi vs. Roderick Strong/Davey Richards (FYF: Finale) - ****1/4
Fight Without Honor: Nigel McGuinness vs. Jimmy Rave (FYF: Finale) - ****1/4
Samoa Joe vs. Homicide (FYF: Finale) - ****
ROH vs. Dragon Gate 8-Man Tag (ASE III) - ****1/2
Steel Cage: BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs (SCOH II) - ****1/2
Dragon Gate 6-Man (SCOH II) - ****1/2 to ****3/4
Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness (Fighting Spirit) - ****


----------



## ROH

Jack Evans 187 said:


> My only problem was that it was Yokosuka's first ROH appearance and he didn't get much offense at all. But that doesn't take anything away from the rating.


Agreed. The only real thing he hit was Jumbo No Kachi, but the commentaors just called it a 'lariat'. Aries' selljob of it (the lariat) put it over big though .


----------



## lizmark

CZW "Out Whit The Old, In Whit The New" - Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero 

CZW "Restore the Order" - Scotty Vortex vs. Cloudy

ROH "Fifth Year Festival" - Briscoes vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico


----------



## Rated R Poster

Sorry if its a little Cliche, but the DG 6 man is IMO the best match of the year. ****1/2. Other runner ups again in my opinion are Whitmer/Jacobs ****1/4 and Briscoe vs Briscoe ****1/4. Doesnt it seem like any Briscoe match can be placed in these discussions?


----------



## Caligula

KENTA/Danielson from 6/23/07 is already the MOTY. tbh.


----------



## ROH

Rated R Poster said:


> Sorry if its a little Cliche, but the DG 6 man is IMO the best match of the year. ****1/2.


Not very cliche . Unfortunately, lots of people (*not* including me) don't think it was that good.


----------



## Blasko

Killa CaLi said:


> KENTA/Danielson from 6/23/07 is already the MOTY. tbh.


If it was anything like their second battle (Better wrestling wise, but the fans were dead), I might have to agree.

IMO.:yum:


----------



## Corey

I watched the double main event from Baclash last night. Two great matches. I wasn't really into Taker/Batista too much and I really don't know why, it just kept going and going and going. I'd still give it ***3/4 - ****

The Fatal Four Way was awesome. Great action the whole way through. The finishing sequence was sweet and made sense. ****1/2

*WWE MOTYC (****+)*
Last Man Standing: John Cena vs. Umaga (Royal Rumble) - ****1/2
Undertaker vs. Batista (WM 23) - ****
John Cena vs. HBK (WM 23) - ****
John Cena vs. HBK (RAW) - ****1/2
John Cena vs. HBK vs. Randy Orton vs. Edge (Backlash) - ****1/2
Edge vs. Randy Orton (RAW) - ****
Ladder Match: The Hardyz vs. The World's Greatest Tag Team (ONS) - ****

***NOTE*** I have not seen DX vs. Rated RKO from New Years Revolution.


----------



## AdamBombSquad

Honestly, the hooliganz v WGTT from last night was great.

Orton v Edge on Raw was amazing too. Orton's ability gets underrated.


----------



## FreshKevin

John Cena vs. Shawn Micheals 1 and 2(The thrid one sucks.)


----------



## -Mystery-

AdamBombed said:


> Honestly, the hooliganz v WGTT from last night was great.
> 
> Orton v Edge on Raw was amazing too. Orton's ability gets underrated.


Did you watch the same match I watched? Sure it was a decent little match but it was way too short and lacked any sort of psychology to be considered a good match.

Also, it's not so much Orton's ability gets underrated, it's that Edge is that damn good. That match was clearly led by Edge and he's the reason the match was good.


----------



## Word

Cena Vs. Orton Vs. Michaels Vs. Edge
Cena Vs. HBK I & II
DX Vs. Rated RKO


----------



## The BoogeyMan

*My current MOTY is Storm vs Harris at this point in time, just because i haven't seen such a well structured, thought-out match in a while. It had intelligent spots rather than random silly smacks with a chair, and the finish made more sense than any finish i think i've ever seen.*


----------



## Sephiroth

The BoogeyMan said:


> * just because i haven't seen such a well structured, thought-out match in a while.*


i hope i don't sound like i'm knocking this match because i personally loved it too and thought it was 4 stars, but you should check out Jay Briscoes & Erick Stevens vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen from ROH's show Fighting Spirit. you can find it in the Indy media section.


----------



## watts63

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****3/4

*CZW Out With The Old, In With The New*
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****1/2

*NJPW 4/13/07*
Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi ****1/2

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe ****1/2

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/21/07*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****1/2

*WWE Royal Rumble*
John Cena vs. Umaga ****1/2

*PWG DDT4 Tag Team Title Tournament Night One*
Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA ****1/4-****1/2

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer ****1/4

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
CIMA, SHINGO & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid & Masaaki Mochizuki ****1/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/24/07*
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Rocky Romero & Taiji Ishimori ****1/4

*ROH All-Star Extravaganza III*
CIMA, Ryo Saito, Susumu Yokosuks & Dragon Kid vs. Austin Aries, Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious & Rocky Romero ****-****1/4

*WWE Vengeance '07*
Edge vs. Batista ****-****1/4

*IWA-MS Sunday Bloody Sunday*
Necro Butcher vs. Masada ****-****1/4

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Dayton*
Roderick Strong vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. M-Dogg 20 vs. Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO vs. Pelle Primeau ****-****1/4

*CHIKARA Rey de Voladores*
Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli ****-****1/4

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: NYC*
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Samoa Joe vs. Homicide ****

*IWA-MS HURT 2007*
Roderick Strong vs. Low Ki ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Philly*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Chicago*
Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****

*ROH Fighting Spirit*
El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. Jay Briscoe & Erick Stevens & Then Mark Briscoe ****

*WWE RAW ???*
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels II ****​


----------



## Sephiroth

i think we can add Danielson vs. KENTA from 6/23 on the list .


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Optional ratings are absurd. Decide on one and deal with it. If your opinions change later, you're not legally bound to stand by your first rating.

Also, live matches often lose something on tape, therefore wait to see how it turns out before citing it as a MOTYC.

This has been a presentation of "Brendan's gripes" brought to you by Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama for the GHC from 2004, which another viewing today made me realize is still awesome, yet so very overrated. (**** from me for those who care)


----------



## MrPaiMei

BxB Hulk, Cyber Kong, and Shingo Takagi vs. CIMA, Ryo Saito, and Susumu Yokosuka from Infinity64 is incredible and must see, the best DG match this year and the best Triangle Gate match in a LONG time. A good ****, maybe ****1/4. I have a few All Japan and WWE matches to watch then I'll have an updated top 10 list.


----------



## Corey

*ROH Good Times Great Memories*

*Takeshi Morishima vs. Shingo (ROH World Title) 
*Awesome match here. NOAH vs. Dragon Gate and it didn't dissapoint. Very hard hitting as you'd expect, and it REALLY looked like Shingo was gonna win the title. He could very easily be a top guy in ROH. Very strong and a high workrate. MOTYC that kinda caught me by surprise.
*****1/2*

*The Briscoes vs. Murder City Machine Guns (ROH World Tag Team Titles)
*WOW. I can not descibe how great this match was. You gotta see it for yourself. Just like the Shingo match, the near falls in this were insane. Oh and by the way, Alex Shelley hates ********.








*****3/4*


----------



## KingKicks

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *ROH Good Times Great Memories*
> 
> *Takeshi Morishima vs. Shingo (ROH World Title)
> *Awesome match here. NOAH vs. Dragon Gate and it didn't dissapoint. Very hard hitting as you'd expect, and it REALLY looked like Shingo was gonna win the title. He could very easily be a top guy in ROH. Very strong and a high workrate. MOTYC that kinda caught me by surprise.
> *****1/2*
> 
> *The Briscoes vs. Murder City Machine Guns (ROH World Tag Team Titles)
> *WOW. I can not descibe how great this match was. You gotta see it for yourself. Just like the Shingo match, the near falls in this were insane. Oh and by the way, Alex Shelley hates ********.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *****3/4*


Just finished this show, thought it was an awesome show and The Briscoes vs. MCMG is now my favorite match this year.
I loved Morishima vs. Shingo, definetly a favorite of mine this year.


----------



## Corey

Just watched two matches that people have claimed to be MOTYCs in their eyes:

*DX vs. Rated RKO - New Year's Revolution*
Awesome match. Orton lost an amazing amount of blood. Not quite MOTYC IMO. If HHH would'nt have hurt his leg it would've been. The crowd was kinda like 'what the hell was that' after Orton ran in with the chair and then ran out. Botched RKO too.
******

*Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Yuji Nagata - NJPW 4/13*
Very good match. Didn't quite live up to the expectations from what I had heard about it though. Maybe it's just me, but I really couldn't get into it. Maybe it's because I'm not too familiar with these two guys. This was my first time seeing Tanahashi in a match.
***** - ****1/4*


----------



## musdy

Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli- Chikara Rey De Voladores
Pro Wrestling NOAH vs. Dragon Gate: Naomichi MARUFUJI, Ricky MARVIN & Ippei OTA vs. CIMA, Susumu YOKOSUKA & Dragon Kid- 04/28/07

GTGM is currently shipping


----------



## Mark.

Jay Briscoe vs Mark Briscoe - ROH Fifth Year Festival: Finale
****1/2

Fantastic match, possibly the best ROH has done in the '07

Man up!


----------



## ROH

musdy said:


> Pro Wrestling NOAH vs. Dragon Gate: Naomichi MARUFUJI, Ricky MARVIN & Ippei OTA vs. CIMA, Susumu YOKOSUKA & Dragon Kid- 04/28/07


Sure it was awesome and all, but MOTYC? There were so many problems with it...


----------



## MrPaiMei

Ya, it was pretty good but nowhere near MOTYC to me, I had it round ***1/2. CIMA killing rookies is always good, though.


----------



## ROH

^ ***1/2_***3/4 for me, too.


----------



## musdy

I forgot to add The Briscoes vs Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki.

I really don't look into matches like that.


----------



## watts63

New Addition to My MOTYC List...

*WWE Vengeance '07*
Edge vs. Batista ****-****1/4


----------



## ROH

musdy said:


> I really don't look into matches like that.


I don't most of the time, but that match it hit me staraight in the face. The most notable one was the DG guys virtually squashing the NOAH guys, when the NOAH guys had *Naomichi Marafuji* on their team. Great booking there...


----------



## musdy

ROH™ said:


> I don't most of the time, but that match it hit me staraight in the face. The most notable one was the DG guys virtually squashing the NOAH guys, when the NOAH guys had *Naomichi Marafuji* on their team. Great booking there...


NOAHs booking has always been hit & miss


----------



## watts63

I finally found a match better than Hero vs. Kingston...

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*

Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****3/4


----------



## Drogba

_ *Phil Schneider'current 2007 MOTYC list

1. Nigel McGuinness v. Samoa Joe ROH 3/3
2. John Cena v. Umaga WWE 1/28
3. Nigel McGuinness v. Takeshi Morishima ROH 4/14
4. Chris Harris v. James Storm TNA 5/13
5. Jimmy Jacobs v. B.J. Whitmer ROH 3/4
6. Samoa Joe v. Takeshi Morishima ROH 2/16
7. Shawn Micheals v. John Cena WWE 4/23
8. Jimmy Jacobs v. B.J. Whitmer ROH 3/31
9. Solar 1/Mano Negra v. ***** Navarro/Black Terry Lucha Libre VIP 3/10
10. MNM v. Hardy Boyz WWE 1/28
11. Briscoes v. Ricky Marvin/Kontaro Suzuki NOAH 1/21
12. John Cena v. Great Khali 5/20
13. Finlay v. Undertaker 3/6 WWE
14. Briscoes v. Kevin Steen/El Generico ROH 4/14
15. Colt Cabana v. Jimmy Jacobs ROH 2/24
16. Takeshi Sasaki v. Yuki Miyamoto BJW 3/14
17. John Cena v. Shawn Michaels WWE 4/1
18. Shinjiro Ohtani/Takao Omori/Kazunari Murakami v. Kohei Sato/Hirotaka Yokoi/Yoshiro Takayama Zero 1 1/19
19. Matt Sydal v. The Man Gravity Forgo PAC ROH 3/4
20. Davey Richards/Roderick Strong v. Jack Evans/Delirious ROH 4/14
21. Mitsuhara Misawa v. Takuma Sano NOAH 4/28
22. John Cena v. Great Khali v. Umaga WWE 6/4
23. Chris Benoit v. MVP 4/10
24. Nigel McGuiness v. Jimmy Rave ROH 3/4
25. Yuji Nagata v. Hiroshi Tanahashi NJ 4/13*_​


----------



## Word

Drogba said:


> _ *My current 2007 MOTYC list, In no particular order:*
> 
> 1. Nigel McGuinness v. Samoa Joe ROH 3/3
> 2. John Cena v. Umaga WWE 1/28
> 3. Nigel McGuinness v. Takeshi Morishima ROH 4/14
> 4. Chris Harris v. James Storm TNA 5/13
> 5. Jimmy Jacobs v. B.J. Whitmer ROH 3/4
> 6. Samoa Joe v. Takeshi Morishima ROH 2/16
> 7. Shawn Micheals v. John Cena WWE 4/23
> 8. Jimmy Jacobs v. B.J. Whitmer ROH 3/31
> 9. Solar 1/Mano Negra v. ***** Navarro/Black Terry Lucha Libre VIP 3/10
> 10. MNM v. Hardy Boyz WWE 1/28
> 11. Briscoes v. Ricky Marvin/Kontaro Suzuki NOAH 1/21
> *12. John Cena v. Great Khali 5/20*
> 13. Finlay v. Undertaker 3/6 WWE
> 14. Briscoes v. Kevin Steen/El Generico ROH 4/14
> 15. Colt Cabana v. Jimmy Jacobs ROH 2/24
> 16. Takeshi Sasaki v. Yuki Miyamoto BJW 3/14
> 17. John Cena v. Shawn Michaels WWE 4/1
> 18. Shinjiro Ohtani/Takao Omori/Kazunari Murakami v. Kohei Sato/Hirotaka Yokoi/Yoshiro Takayama Zero 1 1/19
> 19. Matt Sydal v. The Man Gravity Forgo PAC ROH 3/4
> 20. Davey Richards/Roderick Strong v. Jack Evans/Delirious ROH 4/14
> 21. Mitsuhara Misawa v. Takuma Sano NOAH 4/28
> 22. John Cena v. Great Khali v. Umaga WWE 6/4
> 23. Chris Benoit v. MVP 4/10
> 24. Nigel McGuiness v. Jimmy Rave ROH 3/4
> 25. Yuji Nagata v. Hiroshi Tanahashi NJ 4/13_​


Explination pretty please? That match was decent, NOT a MOTYC.


----------



## Corey

Drogba said:


> _ *My current 2007 MOTYC list, In no particular order:*_​
> _1. Nigel McGuinness v. Samoa Joe ROH 3/3_
> _2. John Cena v. Umaga WWE 1/28_
> _3. Nigel McGuinness v. Takeshi Morishima ROH 4/14_
> _4. Chris Harris v. James Storm TNA 5/13_
> _5. Jimmy Jacobs v. B.J. Whitmer ROH 3/4_
> _6. Samoa Joe v. Takeshi Morishima ROH 2/16_
> _7. Shawn Micheals v. John Cena WWE 4/23_
> _8. Jimmy Jacobs v. B.J. Whitmer ROH 3/31_
> _9. Solar 1/Mano Negra v. ***** Navarro/Black Terry Lucha Libre VIP 3/10_
> _*10. MNM v. Hardy Boyz WWE 1/28*_
> _11. Briscoes v. Ricky Marvin/Kontaro Suzuki NOAH 1/21_
> _12. John Cena v. Great Khali 5/20_
> _13. Finlay v. Undertaker 3/6 WWE_
> _14. Briscoes v. Kevin Steen/El Generico ROH 4/14_
> _15. Colt Cabana v. Jimmy Jacobs ROH 2/24_
> _16. Takeshi Sasaki v. Yuki Miyamoto BJW 3/14_
> _17. John Cena v. Shawn Michaels WWE 4/1_
> _18. Shinjiro Ohtani/Takao Omori/Kazunari Murakami v. Kohei Sato/Hirotaka Yokoi/Yoshiro Takayama Zero 1 1/19_
> _19. Matt Sydal v. The Man Gravity Forgo PAC ROH 3/4_
> _20. Davey Richards/Roderick Strong v. Jack Evans/Delirious ROH 4/14_
> _21. Mitsuhara Misawa v. Takuma Sano NOAH 4/28_
> _22. John Cena v. Great Khali v. Umaga WWE 6/4_
> _23. Chris Benoit v. MVP 4/10_
> _24. Nigel McGuiness v. Jimmy Rave ROH 3/4_
> _25. Yuji Nagata v. Hiroshi Tanahashi NJ 4/13_​


What!? I wouldn't go higher than ***1/2 for that match. And you put it in front of Briscoes/Suzuki & Marvin. Explanation please?

This list actually reminds me of the list from DVDVR...


----------



## Drogba

Jack Evans 187 said:


> What!? I wouldn't go higher than ***1/2 for that match. And you put it in front of Briscoes/Suzuki & Marvin. Explanation please?
> 
> This list actually reminds me of the list from DVDVR...


I said they are not in any particular order.


----------



## Corey

Drogba said:


> I said they are not in any particular order.


:$ 
Sorry. I just saw the numbers and didn't read what you had above... I still don't think it's a MOTYC though... along a lot of things on your list... but I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion...


----------



## -Mystery-

Drogba said:


> _ *My current 2007 MOTYC list, In no particular order:*
> 
> 1. Nigel McGuinness v. Samoa Joe ROH 3/3
> 2. John Cena v. Umaga WWE 1/28
> 3. Nigel McGuinness v. Takeshi Morishima ROH 4/14
> 4. Chris Harris v. James Storm TNA 5/13
> 5. Jimmy Jacobs v. B.J. Whitmer ROH 3/4
> 6. Samoa Joe v. Takeshi Morishima ROH 2/16
> 7. Shawn Micheals v. John Cena WWE 4/23
> 8. Jimmy Jacobs v. B.J. Whitmer ROH 3/31
> 9. Solar 1/Mano Negra v. ***** Navarro/Black Terry Lucha Libre VIP 3/10
> *10. MNM v. Hardy Boyz WWE 1/28*
> 11. Briscoes v. Ricky Marvin/Kontaro Suzuki NOAH 1/21
> *12. John Cena v. Great Khali 5/20*
> 13. Finlay v. Undertaker 3/6 WWE
> 14. Briscoes v. Kevin Steen/El Generico ROH 4/14
> 15. Colt Cabana v. Jimmy Jacobs ROH 2/24
> 16. Takeshi Sasaki v. Yuki Miyamoto BJW 3/14
> 17. John Cena v. Shawn Michaels WWE 4/1
> 18. Shinjiro Ohtani/Takao Omori/Kazunari Murakami v. Kohei Sato/Hirotaka Yokoi/Yoshiro Takayama Zero 1 1/19
> 19. Matt Sydal v. The Man Gravity Forgo PAC ROH 3/4
> 20. Davey Richards/Roderick Strong v. Jack Evans/Delirious ROH 4/14
> 21. Mitsuhara Misawa v. Takuma Sano NOAH 4/28
> *22. John Cena v. Great Khali v. Umaga WWE 6/4
> 23. Chris Benoit v. MVP 4/10*
> 24. Nigel McGuiness v. Jimmy Rave ROH 3/4
> 25. Yuji Nagata v. Hiroshi Tanahashi NJ 4/13_​


:lmao


----------



## ROH

ROH GTGM - Briscoes vs MCMG - ****3/4.


----------



## El Conquistador

*M.W.'s Top Five MOTYC's*

*1.* ROH 6/23: KENTA vs. Bryan Danielson III *****
*2.* Good Times, Great Memories: Briscoes vs. MCMG ****3/4
*3.* FYF: Finale: Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe ****2/3
*4.* All Star Extravaganza III: Austin Aries, Delirious, Claudio Castagnoli, & Rocky Romero vs. CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Dragon Kid, & Ryo Saito ****1/2
*5.* Good Times, Great Memories: Takeshi Morishima vs. Shingo ****1/2


----------



## KingKicks

Drogba said:


> _ *My current 2007 MOTYC list, In no particular order:*
> 
> 1. Nigel McGuinness v. Samoa Joe ROH 3/3
> 2. John Cena v. Umaga WWE 1/28
> 3. Nigel McGuinness v. Takeshi Morishima ROH 4/14
> 4. Chris Harris v. James Storm TNA 5/13
> 5. Jimmy Jacobs v. B.J. Whitmer ROH 3/4
> 6. Samoa Joe v. Takeshi Morishima ROH 2/16
> 7. Shawn Micheals v. John Cena WWE 4/23
> 8. Jimmy Jacobs v. B.J. Whitmer ROH 3/31
> 9. Solar 1/Mano Negra v. ***** Navarro/Black Terry Lucha Libre VIP 3/10
> *10. MNM v. Hardy Boyz WWE 1/28*
> 11. Briscoes v. Ricky Marvin/Kontaro Suzuki NOAH 1/21
> *12. John Cena v. Great Khali 5/20*
> 13. Finlay v. Undertaker 3/6 WWE
> 14. Briscoes v. Kevin Steen/El Generico ROH 4/14
> 15. Colt Cabana v. Jimmy Jacobs ROH 2/24
> 16. Takeshi Sasaki v. Yuki Miyamoto BJW 3/14
> 17. John Cena v. Shawn Michaels WWE 4/1
> 18. Shinjiro Ohtani/Takao Omori/Kazunari Murakami v. Kohei Sato/Hirotaka Yokoi/Yoshiro Takayama Zero 1 1/19
> *19. Matt Sydal v. The Man Gravity Forgo PAC ROH 3/4*
> 20. Davey Richards/Roderick Strong v. Jack Evans/Delirious ROH 4/14
> 21. Mitsuhara Misawa v. Takuma Sano NOAH 4/28
> *22. John Cena v. Great Khali v. Umaga WWE 6/4*
> 23. Chris Benoit v. MVP 4/10
> 24. Nigel McGuiness v. Jimmy Rave ROH 3/4
> 25. Yuji Nagata v. Hiroshi Tanahashi NJ 4/13_​


I'm pretty surprised at those, and no Briscoe vs. Briscoe?


----------



## Corey

This was really hard, but I came up with my Top 10:

1. ROH GTGM: The Briscoes vs. MCMG
2. ASE III: Team Dragon Gate vs. Team ROH
3. NOAH 1/21: The Briscoes vs. Ricky Marvin/Kotaro Suzuki
4. Royal Rumble: John Cena vs. Umaga (Last Man Standing)
5. FYF Finale: Briscoe vs. Briscoe
6. SCOH II: Dragon Gate 6-Man
7. SCOH II: BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs (Steel Cage)
8. GTGM: Morishima vs. Shingo
9. FYF Finale: Nigel McGuinness vs. Jimmy Rave (Fight Without Honor)
TIE for 10. Backlash: Cena vs. Orton vs. HBK vs. Edge
RAW ??? John Cena vs. HBK
*
Honorable Mention:*
Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness - Fighting Spirit
Briscoes vs. Shingo/Naruki Doi - FYF Liverpool
Shingo/Naruki Doi vs. Roderick Strong/Davey Richards - FYF Finale
Briscoes vs. Kevin Steen/El Generico - FYF Philly


----------



## T-C

Drogba said:


> _ *My current 2007 MOTYC list, In no particular order:*
> 
> 1. Nigel McGuinness v. Samoa Joe ROH 3/3
> 2. John Cena v. Umaga WWE 1/28
> 3. Nigel McGuinness v. Takeshi Morishima ROH 4/14
> 4. Chris Harris v. James Storm TNA 5/13
> 5. Jimmy Jacobs v. B.J. Whitmer ROH 3/4
> 6. Samoa Joe v. Takeshi Morishima ROH 2/16
> 7. Shawn Micheals v. John Cena WWE 4/23
> 8. Jimmy Jacobs v. B.J. Whitmer ROH 3/31
> 9. Solar 1/Mano Negra v. ***** Navarro/Black Terry Lucha Libre VIP 3/10
> 10. MNM v. Hardy Boyz WWE 1/28
> 11. Briscoes v. Ricky Marvin/Kontaro Suzuki NOAH 1/21
> 12. John Cena v. Great Khali 5/20
> 13. Finlay v. Undertaker 3/6 WWE
> 14. Briscoes v. Kevin Steen/El Generico ROH 4/14
> 15. Colt Cabana v. Jimmy Jacobs ROH 2/24
> 16. Takeshi Sasaki v. Yuki Miyamoto BJW 3/14
> 17. John Cena v. Shawn Michaels WWE 4/1
> 18. Shinjiro Ohtani/Takao Omori/Kazunari Murakami v. Kohei Sato/Hirotaka Yokoi/Yoshiro Takayama Zero 1 1/19
> 19. Matt Sydal v. The Man Gravity Forgo PAC ROH 3/4
> 20. Davey Richards/Roderick Strong v. Jack Evans/Delirious ROH 4/14
> 21. Mitsuhara Misawa v. Takuma Sano NOAH 4/28
> 22. John Cena v. Great Khali v. Umaga WWE 6/4
> 23. Chris Benoit v. MVP 4/10
> 24. Nigel McGuiness v. Jimmy Rave ROH 3/4
> 25. Yuji Nagata v. Hiroshi Tanahashi NJ 4/13_​


You just copied Phil Schneider's Match of the Year list from his blog.

http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/


----------



## MrPaiMei

Ya, that's definatly Schneiders. For him, that is in order, for the record.


----------



## Word

Its such a shit list though. Actually thats a bit harsh but most matches on there just dont deserve to be there im sorry. Its stupid.


----------



## Corey

Yeah I'm with you on that one. That list is really shitty... So many of them are in front of others that were way better and some don't even deserve to be on the list.


----------



## T-C

People have different tastes, and if Phil was here he would back up his opinions and tell you why he likes matches above others.

Read through the blog if you want to see why he likes what he likes.


----------



## ROH

Shut up. Al of you. Phil Schneider is a better wrestling fan than all of you. Actually he's better than any other wrestling fan. Even Rob Naylor.

(joke)


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod

I've been trying to catch up on everything, so here's what I have so far:


1) Royal Rumble match - Royal Rumble 2007
2) John Cena vs. Umaga - Last Man Standing match for the WWE Championship - Royal Rumble
3) Batista vs. The Undertaker - World Heavyweight Championship - WrestleMania 23
4) Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe vs. Christian Cage vs. A.J. Styles vs. Chris Harris - King of the Mountain match for the vacant TNA World Heavyweight Title - Slammiversary 2007
5) John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - WWE Championship - WrestleMania 23
6) John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - RAW - April 23rd, 2007
7) Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe - NWA World Heavyweight Championship - Destination X 2007
8) Randy Orton vs. Edge - RAW, April 30th, 2007

I still need to see the "Texas Deathmatch" between James Storm & Chris Harris.


----------



## -Mystery-

that's cool said:


> People have different tastes, and if Phil was here he would back up his opinions and tell you why he likes matches above others.
> 
> Read through the blog if you want to see why he likes what he likes.


You can't justify Umaga/Khali/Cena being a MOTYC, you just can't.


----------



## Future Star

Finally saw MCMG vs Briscoes...and that replaces the SCOH II Cage match as my MOTY


----------



## MrPaiMei

-Mystery- said:


> You can't justify Umaga/Khali/Cena being a MOTYC, you just can't.


22. John Cena v. Great Khali v. Umaga WWE 6/4

This was the last of the really fun Cena v. Khali series, and they added in Umaga to throw things and bump. Cena is typically great at taking a beating, and at this point has a ton of stuff he can do with both guys. After trying for a month we finally get an FU on Khali (that isn't on a crash pad), it looked really great too with tall ass Khali taking a cool awkward bump on the move. WWE does monster v. monster teases really well. The matches usually kind of stink, but the battle royal staredowns or in this case 2 minute 3 way dances are almost always great. I loved all of the Khali v. Umaga stuff, and the Samoan Spike on Khali looked great. Honestly I don't think a singles match between those two would be any good, so it is probably better that Khali got moved, and they can save another face off for the Royal Rumble. 

Decent enough for a top 20 explanation, I suppose. I see where he's coming from.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod

I have to admit that I thought Cena/Khali/Umaga was a lot of fun. The Khali/Umaga monster stuff was great, and it made Umaga come off as a lovably stupid, but dangerous tweener. Cena played the hero role nicely, and the action was very swift. For a match where two of the competitors are over 300 lbs., the triple-threat rules really got things moving. I think I actually liked this better than the Cena/Khali match at ONS the night before.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

-Mystery- said:


> You can't justify Umaga/Khali/Cena being a MOTYC, you just can't.


That's only because you're an elitist.

And even though I know it wasn't one of the *best* matches of the year, gotta give credit to Shelton Benjaman for making Lashley look GOOD tonight on Raw.


----------



## Word

BGLWrestlingGod said:


> I've been trying to catch up on everything, so here's what I have so far:
> 
> 
> 1) *Royal Rumble match - Royal Rumble 2007*
> 2) John Cena vs. Umaga - Last Man Standing match for the WWE Championship - Royal Rumble
> 3) Batista vs. The Undertaker - World Heavyweight Championship - WrestleMania 23
> 4) Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe vs. Christian Cage vs. A.J. Styles vs. Chris Harris - King of the Mountain match for the vacant TNA World Heavyweight Title - Slammiversary 2007
> 5) John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - WWE Championship - WrestleMania 23
> 6) John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - RAW - April 23rd, 2007
> 7) Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe - NWA World Heavyweight Championship - Destination X 2007
> 8) Randy Orton vs. Edge - RAW, April 30th, 2007
> 
> I still need to see the "Texas Deathmatch" between James Storm & Chris Harris.


I really wouldnt count any royal rumble match-up as a MOTYC in any year. It just doesnt have the same " " (cant think of a word) as any other match. Certainly they are allowed yes but me myself wouldnt consider it being one regardless if it was *****


----------



## Corey

*NOAH 2/24 - GHC Jr. Tag Title match - Kotaro Suzuki/Ricky Marvin vs. Rocky Romero/Taiji Ishimori*
This match was pretty much insane. Ishimori does some amazing stuff in the ring. Briscoes/Marvzuki was slightly better, but this match wasn't far behind. I think Marvzuki are gonna have those titles for a long time...
*****1/4*


----------



## MrPaiMei

Yeah, that's a great defense, I went ****1/4...
----------------------------------------------
TOP 10 (edit... rewatched some stuff and updated)
1) Jay Briscoe and Mark Briscoe vs. Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin - 4.28
2) CIMA, Shingo, and Susumu Yokosuka vs. Dragon Kid, Masaaki Mochizuki, and Ryo Saito - 3.31
3) BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs - 3.31
4)Jay Briscoe and Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki and Ricky Marvin - 1.28
5) Hiroshi Tanahshi vs. Yuji Nagata - 4.28
6) Chris Hero vs. Eddie Kingston - 4.21
7) Jimmy Rave vs. Nigel McGuinness - 3.4
8) Jun Akiyama and Takeshi Rikio vs. Takeshi Suguira and Yoshihiro Takayama - 4.28
9) Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe - 3.4
10) Jay Briscoe and Mark Briscoe vs. Naruki Doi and Shingo - 3.3


----------



## watts63

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****3/4

*CZW Out With The Old, In With The New*
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****1/2

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe ****1/2

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/21/07*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****1/2

*ROH Respect is Earned*
Jay & Mark Briscoe (c) vs. Matt Sydal & Claudio Castagnoli ****1/2

*WWE Royal Rumble*
John Cena vs. Umaga ****1/2

*PWG DDT4 Tag Team Title Tournament Night One*
Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA ****1/4-****1/2

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer ****1/4

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
CIMA, SHINGO & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid & Masaaki Mochizuki ****1/4

*NJPW 4/13/07*
Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi ****1/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/24/07*
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Rocky Romero & Taiji Ishimori ****1/4

*ROH All-Star Extravaganza III*
CIMA, Ryo Saito, Susumu Yokosuks & Dragon Kid vs. Austin Aries, Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious & Rocky Romero ****-****1/4

*WWE Vengeance '07*
Edge vs. Batista ****-****1/4

*IWA-MS Sunday Bloody Sunday*
Necro Butcher vs. Masada ****-****1/4

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Dayton*
Roderick Strong vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. M-Dogg 20 vs. Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO vs. Pelle Primeau ****-****1/4

*CHIKARA Rey de Voladores*
Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli ****-****1/4

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: NYC*
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Samoa Joe vs. Homicide ****

*IWA-MS HURT 2007*
Roderick Strong vs. Low Ki ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Philly*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Chicago*
Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****

*ROH Fighting Spirit*
El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. Jay Briscoe & Erick Stevens & Then Mark Briscoe ****

*WWE RAW ???*
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels II ****

*ROH Respect is Earned*
Rocky Romero vs. Naomichi Marufuji ****
​


----------



## ROH

Jay and Mark Briscoe vs Claudio Castagnoli and Matt Sydal - ROH - Respect is Earned *****1/2*.

Shuji Kondo vs Katsuhiko Nakajima - AJPW 2/14/07 - *****1/2*.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Well, I rewatched Nakajima-Kondo, and its fantastic and everyone should see it, but I still ain't feeling it as top 10. I mean, and I'd give it ****1/4, don't get me wrong here, but its too goofy almost. I saw it as basically overkill. They do big move nearfalls for the last like, 12-13 minutes, and then it ends. Most people point to Briscoes matches as overkill, but those have exciting finishing sequences. In this match, the last move wins, that's just how it works. Nothing differenciates the last 30 seconds from any other 30 seconds in that 12 minute stretch. So must see? Yes. Top 10 MOTYC? No. Best part of the match is Katsuhiko getting a nearfall off a Northern Lights Bomb, and then the camera cuts to Kenskay, all pissed his move didn't close it out.


----------



## ROH

^ Pfft, the match OWNED.

Just watched Nagata/Tanahashi, it's either REALLY OVERRATED or I just couldn't get into it at all. I also watched MiSu/Nagata and that didn't impress me much. I really can't get into Nagata.


----------



## T-C

ROH™ said:


> ^ Pfft, the match OWNED.
> 
> Just watched Nagata/Tanahashi, it's either REALLY OVERRATED or I just couldn't get into it at all. I also watched MiSu/Nagata and that didn't impress me much. I really can't get into Nagata.


The main reason for not getting Nagata is that he is one of the most overrated wrestlers of the last decade. He is like a Create-A-Wrestler, tons of moves, but very little real emotion.


----------



## ROH

that's cool said:


> The main reason for not getting Nagata is that he is one of the most overrated wrestlers of the last decade. He is like a Create-A-Wrestler, tons of moves, but very little real emotion.


I thought you loved Nagata/Tanahashi.

???


----------



## T-C

ROH™ said:


> I thought you loved Nagata/Tanahashi.
> 
> ???


It is a very good match, but that doesn't mean that I like Nagata.


----------



## ROH

^ Cool. Apart from Nagata's kick to the head (man, what a kick) near the end, nothing really caught my eye in that match.


----------



## McQueen

ROH™ said:


> ^ Cool. Apart from Nagata's kick to the head (man, what a kick) near the end, nothing really caught my eye in that match.


I love that kick, I remember telling That's Cool about immediately after I saw the match.

I actually really really enjoy Nagata given his previously noted shortcomings and Nagata/Tanahashi is probably my 5th favorite match of the year.

Unrelated note to the match, but I'm marking out at the annoucement that Shinjiro Ohtani will probably be making a return to New Japan to team with Nagata at the 9/9 show. Ohtani = fucking greatness.


----------



## T-C

McQueen said:


> Unrelated note to the match, but I'm marking out at the annoucement that Shinjiro Ohtani will probably be making a return to New Japan to team with Nagata at the 9/9 show. Ohtani = fucking greatness.


That is freakin' tremendous news. Someone's gonna get slapped.


----------



## McQueen

that's cool said:


> That is freakin' tremendous news. Someone's gonna get slapped.


And if Ohtani is slapping people we'll hear it all the way over here :lmao

Ohtani slaps might just be the consistantly loudest hits in professional wrestling.


----------



## watts63

McQueen said:


> And if Ohtani is slapping people we'll hear it all the way over here :lmao
> 
> Ohtani slaps might just be the consistantly loudest hits in professional wrestling.


What does the five finger say in the face? SLAP! I'm Ohtani Bitch!


----------



## McQueen

watts63 said:


> What does the five finger say in the face? SLAP! I'm Ohtani Bitch!


:lmao yeah it says that or and ear shattering

THWAP!


----------



## Rush

Briscoes vs Murder City Machine Guns. That match was bloody awesome


----------



## sim0n_says

Jimmy Jacobs vs Bj Whitmer - Steel Cage Showdown. Awesome match with sick spots and great storytelling!


----------



## musdy

I'm gonna add MCMG vs. The Briscoes to my list.


----------



## potatohed123

i have a question, when does that KENTA/Danielson ***** match become available to watch?


----------



## MrPaiMei

Late October.


----------



## Corey

*TNA Destination X - Samoa Joe vs. Christian Cage*
Great match. Joe should've won though...
******

Also, I don't have a rating for it, but the 3-way TNA Title match from Impact a few weeks ago between Angle, Rhino, and Christian has gotta be on the list. That match was pretty awesome and exceeded my expectations by a mile.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *TNA Destination X - Samoa Joe vs. Christian Cage*
> Great match. Joe should've won though... It's currently #1 on my TNA MOTYC list, but I'm sure the Texas Deathmatch from Sacrifice will top it...
> ***** - ****1/4*
> 
> Also, I don't have a rating for it, but the 3-way TNA Title match from Impact a few weeks ago between Angle, Rhino, and Christian has gotta be on the list. That match was pretty awesome and exceeded my expectations by a mile.


Ah yes. The match of 1,000 run-ins.


----------



## Homicide_187

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Ah yes. The match of 1,000 run-ins.


It didn't hurt the match at all though.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Oh come on, like *** is a stretch for that garbage. SO SO SO SO Overbooked.


----------



## -Mystery-

I liked Angle/Cage/Rhino but I hated how they kept cutting away from the match.


----------



## watts63

-Mystery- said:


> I liked Angle/Cage/Rhino but I hated how they kept cutting away from the match.


I agree. Also I hate how Rhino beated Angle twice in that match.


----------



## Kenton

John Cena vs HBK at Wrestlemania 23


----------



## Corey

watts63 said:


> I agree. Also I hate how Rhino beated Angle twice in that match.


Yeah I've always noticed that Angle isn't really that good at making a near fall look real. If the camera is up in his face, you can clearly see how he waits for the ref's hand to stop and then gets his shoulder up. Actually, one time back in '01 I think he completely forgot to get his shoulder up...


----------



## watts63

I just saw Joe vs. Cage & I gave it ***3/4.


----------



## Homicide_187

watts63 said:


> I just saw Joe vs. Cage & I gave it ***3/4.


I rewatched the DVD last night and it was a bit sloppy at parts but nothing to take it down to much I gave it **** stars.


----------



## Caligula

Pretty sure Briscoes/MCMG is gonna be my MOTY unless Danielson has a ***** match.


----------



## watts63

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****3/4

*CZW Out With The Old, In With The New*
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****1/2

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe ****1/2

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/21/07*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****1/2

*ROH Respect is Earned*
Jay & Mark Briscoe (c) vs. Matt Sydal & Claudio Castagnoli ****1/2

*WWE Royal Rumble*
John Cena vs. Umaga ****1/2

*PWG DDT4 Tag Team Title Tournament Night One*
Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA ****1/4-****1/2

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer ****1/4

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
CIMA, SHINGO & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid & Masaaki Mochizuki ****1/4

*NJPW 4/13/07*
Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi ****1/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/24/07*
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Rocky Romero & Taiji Ishimori ****1/4

*ROH All-Star Extravaganza III*
CIMA, Ryo Saito, Susumu Yokosuks & Dragon Kid vs. Austin Aries, Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious & Rocky Romero ****-****1/4

*WWE Vengeance '07*
Edge vs. Batista ****-****1/4

*IWA-MS Sunday Bloody Sunday*
Necro Butcher vs. Masada ****-****1/4

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Dayton*
Roderick Strong vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. M-Dogg 20 vs. Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO vs. Pelle Primeau ****-****1/4

*CHIKARA Rey de Voladores*
Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli ****-****1/4

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: NYC*
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Samoa Joe vs. Homicide ****

*IWA-MS HURT 2007*
Roderick Strong vs. Low Ki ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Philly*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Chicago*
Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****

*ROH Fighting Spirit*
El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. Jay Briscoe & Erick Stevens & Then Mark Briscoe ****

*IWA-MS It's Gotta Be The Shoes*
Chuck Taylor vs. Low Ki ****

*WWE RAW ???*
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels II ****

*ROH Respect is Earned*
Rocky Romero vs. Naomichi Marufuji ****
​

Damn the Briscoes are having an amazing year. My top 5 has the Briscoes involve except Kingston/Hero.


----------



## El Conquistador

I'm considering giving The Briscoes/MCMG *****'s. Currently I'm borderline ****3/4 - *****'s but I think another view will help me sway one way or the other. Right now I just don't think I've witnessed a better tag team match than this one, which is why it's deserving of *****'s in my eyes.

Anyways, here's my top five for 2007 thus far:

_-Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA 6/23 (*****)
-Shelley/Sabin vs. Briscoes 4/28 (****3/4)
-Briscoe vs. Briscoe 3/4(****3/4)
-CIMA, Saito, Yokosuka, & Dragon Kid vs. Claudio, Aries, Delirious, & Romero 3/30 (****1/4)
-Takeshi Morishima vs. Shingo 4/28 (****1/4)_


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

I am wholly of the opinion that if you've only seen a match live, you shouldn't put it on an MOTYC list.

I'd disavow star ratings, but I've roughed them myself. That said, a well done match can seem like ***** live and be bollocks on tape. Works in reverse too. Therefore, why I stand that live perception should not decide MOTYC.

Also, I need to watch more recent wrestling. Seriously. That said, I imagine my 11 disc History of the GHC DVD set is going to distract me for at least a week when it gets here...


----------



## McQueen

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Also, I need to watch more recent wrestling. Seriously. That said, I imagine my 11 disc History of the GHC DVD set is going to distract me for at least a week when it gets here...


I've had that a while but I had other thinks to watch 1st but I'm about onto that. I'm looking forward to seeing some of the title defences I haven't seen yet like Takayama vs Misawa, and Taue beating Rikio.


----------



## Future Star

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Also, I need to watch more recent wrestling. Seriously. That said, I imagine my 11 disc History of the GHC DVD set is going to distract me for at least a week when it gets here...


How much is that dvd set?


----------



## McQueen

Future Star said:


> How much is that dvd set?


It was like 24.99 I think at IPV.


----------



## MrPaiMei

KENTA and Taiji Ishimor vs. Kota Ibushi and Naomichi Marufuji - at least ****1/4

My new list (added some Japan)
1) Jay Briscoe and Mark Briscoe vs. Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin - 4.28
2) CIMA, Shingo, and Susumu Yokosuka vs. Dragon Kid, Masaaki Mochizuki, and Ryo Saito - 3.31
3) BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs - 3.31
4) Jay Briscoe and Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki and Ricky Marvin - 1.28
5) Hiroshi Tanahshi vs. Yuji Nagata - 4.28
6) BxB Hulk, Cyber Kong, and Shingo Takagi vs. Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito, and Susumu Yokosuka vs. Magnitude Kishiwada, Masato Yoshino, and Naruki Doi - 6.5
7) Chris Hero vs. Eddie Kingston - 4.21
8) Jimmy Rave vs. Nigel McGuinness - 3.4
9) Jun Akiyama and Takeshi Rikio vs. Takeshi Suguira and Yoshihiro Takayama - 4.28
10) KENTA and Taiji Ishimori vs. Kota Ibushi and Naomichi Marufuji - 7.15


----------



## Sephiroth

MrPaiMei said:


> KENTA and Taiji Ishimor vs. Kota Ibushi and Naomichi Marufuji - at least ****1/4


PaiMei, why did KENTA have his knee taped up during this match?

i'm watching it right now and it's fantastic.


----------



## MrPaiMei

sephy37 said:


> PaiMei, why did KENTA have his knee taped up during this match?
> 
> i'm watching it right now and it's fantastic.


Well, I assume it's legit cause he cancelled off ROH. If I was to guess, he injured it on a house show in the nTV Cup, fought through it so he could finish the tour, and now is taking time off sicne the next tour isn't till September.


----------



## watts63

I'm downloading the match now, I'm really excited.

EDIT:

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****3/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/03/07*
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****1/2-****3/4

*CZW Out With The Old, In With The New*
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****1/2

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe ****1/2

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/21/07*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****1/2

*ROH Respect is Earned*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal & Claudio Castagnoli ****1/2

*WWE Royal Rumble*
John Cena vs. Umaga ****1/2

*PWG DDT4 Tag Team Title Tournament Night One*
Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA ****1/4-****1/2

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07*
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi ****1/4-****1/2

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07*
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/4-****1/2

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer ****1/4

*Dragon Gate 4/17/07*
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid, BxB Hulk, Anthony W. Mori & Matt Sydal vs. Magnitude Kishiwada, Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi, Gamma, Cyber Kong & Jack Evans ****1/4

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
CIMA, SHINGO & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid & Masaaki Mochizuki ****1/4

*NJPW 4/13/07*
Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi ****1/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/24/07*
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Rocky Romero & Taiji Ishimori ****1/4

*ROH All-Star Extravaganza III*
CIMA, Ryo Saito, Susumu Yokosuks & Dragon Kid vs. Austin Aries, Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious & Rocky Romero ****-****1/4

*WWE Vengeance '07*
Edge vs. Batista ****-****1/4

*IWA-MS Sunday Bloody Sunday*
Necro Butcher vs. Masada ****-****1/4

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Dayton*
Roderick Strong vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. M-Dogg 20 vs. Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO vs. Pelle Primeau ****-****1/4

*CHIKARA Rey de Voladores*
Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli ****-****1/4

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: NYC*
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima ****

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki II ****

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07*
Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Samoa Joe vs. Homicide ****

*IWA-MS HURT 2007*
Roderick Strong vs. Low Ki ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Philly*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Chicago*
Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****

*ROH Fighting Spirit*
El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. Jay Briscoe & Erick Stevens & Then Mark Briscoe ****

*IWA-MS It's Gotta Be The Shoes*
Chuck Taylor vs. Low Ki ****

*WWE RAW ???*
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels II ****

*ROH Respect is Earned*
Rocky Romero vs. Naomichi Marufuji ****​


----------



## -Mystery-

3 Way Tag Match: Magnitude Kishiwada, Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino vs. Dragon Kid, Susumu Yokosuka & Ryo Saito vs. Shingo Takagi, BxB Hulk & Cyber Kong - ****1/2 - ****3/4


----------



## watts63

-Mystery- said:


> 3 Way Tag Match: Magnitude Kishiwada, Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino vs. Dragon Kid, Susumu Yokosuka & Ryo Saito vs. Shingo Takagi, BxB Hulk & Cyber Kong - ****1/2 - ****3/4


Damn, I must see that match.


----------



## Corey

*NOAH 7/15 - KENTA/Taiji Ishimori vs. Naomichi Marufuji/Kota Ibushi*
Phenomenal match. This was my first time seeing Ibushi, and he impressed the fuck outta me. Awesome stuff. The KENTA/Marufuji exchanges were great, and Ishimori was his usual awesome self. I loved the finish too. NOAH has had some of the best tag matches in the world this year.
*****1/2*

Can someone help me out and tell me if NOAH has had any singles MOTYC this year? Thanks.

*ROH Battle of St. Paul - Takeshi Morishima vs. Austin Aries*
Crowd was completely behind Aries in this one. The first half of the match wasn't anything special, but it really picked up in the second half. The brainbuster/450 combo looked like it was gonna put Mori away; insane near fall. Morishima's 3rd best title defense so far.
******


----------



## Future Star

> NOAH 7/15 - KENTA/Taiji Ishimori vs. Naomichi Marufuji/Kota Ibushi


I am downloading it, and will watch tomorow, im pumped


----------



## watts63

Kota Ibushi is awesome man. Love to see him in ROH.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

McQueen said:


> It was like 24.99 I think at IPV.


IVP Videos...the only place where I can get 21 discs of Puro for $70 Canadian INCLUDING SHIPPING.

They have a 25 cent sampler disc which looks good too.

But yeah.

Watched this today:

RoH: Supercard of Honor 2
Roderick Strong vs. Austin Aries
****1/2

Real sleeper match which I think is overlooked because of the matches surrounding it. It's a shame really, as Strong and Aries put on a hell of a show. They use familiarity to build a match far differently than any I've seen of them before. Strong works phenominally as the heel who's a coward when in the defensive, but downright vicious when he's on offense. And the finish is such overkill that it makes Strong look like a killer while keeping Aries looking good. Great stuff and my number 3 match of the year.

Also worth noting that my 2nd and 3rd favourite matches of the year are from that show. Pick it up folks.


----------



## Future Star

TheUnholyDragon said:


> RoH: Supercard of Honor 2
> Roderick Strong vs. Austin Aries
> ****1/2


Sorry, but i totally disagree, i thought it was a little slow and definately not ****1/2, i have it at ***3/4


----------



## Corey

He is right about Aries/Strong not getting any talk at all this year though. It seems the Cage match and the DG 6-man overshadowed it and it gets no talk at all. It was a great match, **** for me. And I'm watching a bunch of MOTYC today and tomorrow so expect a large post probably tomorrow.


----------



## musdy

KENTA/Taiji vs. Marufuji/Kota 

that moonsault Kota did was 10 kinds of awesome!!


----------



## watts63

musdy said:


> KENTA/Taiji vs. Marufuji/Kota
> 
> that moonsault Kota did was 10 kinds of awesome!!


Yes it was man.

---------------------------------

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki II ****-****1/4​


----------



## T-C

Just watched Taue vs Misawa, and it was really fun. It is the first NOAH main event that I can remember where I actually wanted it to go on for longer in order for Taue to get a good comeback in. But when the crowd were getting into the comeback, Misawa just killed him with a sick brainbuster. I wouldn't put it at the top of any list but it is well worth a view and real fun.


Taue Rules!!!


----------



## El Conquistador

watts63 said:


> Yes it was man.
> 
> ---------------------------------
> 
> *Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07*
> Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki II ****-****1/4​


Really? Why so low? I have it at high ****1/2. Personally, I thought it was the better match of their encounters.

Hot crowd, ridiculously amazing double team moves, great psychology, sprint past, high work rate, Marvin dazzling people with his incredible spots in the beginning, and solid selling.

Not quite as great of a master piece as MCMG/Briscoes, but definitely earned a spot in my top five.

_Updated list:_
1: Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA 6/23 *(*****)*
2: Shelley/Sabin vs. Briscoes 4/28 *(****3/4)*
3: Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe 7/15 *(****1/2 - ****3/4)*
4: Briscoe vs. Briscoe *(****1/2)*
T-5: CIMA, Saito, Yokosuka, & Dragon Kid vs. Claudio, Aries, Delirious, & Romero 3/30 *(****1/4)*
T-5: Takeshi Morishima vs. Shingo 4/28 *(****1/4)*


----------



## watts63

M.W. said:


> Really? Why so low? I have it at high ****1/2. Personally, I thought it was the better match of their encounters.
> 
> Hot crowd, ridiculously amazing double team moves, great psychology, sprint past, high work rate, Marvin dazzling people with his incredible spots in the beginning, and solid selling.
> 
> Not quite as great of a master piece as MCMG/Briscoes, but definitely earned a spot in my top five.
> 
> _Updated list:_
> 1: Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA 6/23 *(*****)*
> 2: Shelley/Sabin vs. Briscoes 4/28 *(****3/4)*
> 3: Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe 7/15 *(****1/2 - ****3/4)*
> 4: Briscoe vs. Briscoe *(****1/2)*
> T-5: CIMA, Saito, Yokosuka, & Dragon Kid vs. Claudio, Aries, Delirious, & Romero 3/30 *(****1/4)*
> T-5: Takeshi Morishima vs. Shingo 4/28 *(****1/4)*


It was a great match in all but I didn't think that it was better than their first one & matter of fact it wasn't even the best match of the night. Something must be wrong with my volume on this laptop because that crowd wasn't hot but it was in the ending.


----------



## El Conquistador

watts63 said:


> It was a great match in all but I didn't think that it was better than their first one & matter of fact it wasn't even the best match of the night. Something must be wrong with my volume on this laptop because that crowd wasn't hot but it was in the ending.


There really is no disputing if KENTA/Taiji Ishimori vs. Naomichi Marufuji/Kota Ibushi was the match of the night because it was, but I don't buy into what you said about the crowd not reacting. They reacted virtually everytime a double move occurred. 

Also, your opinion on whether or not it was better than their first match is your opinion and I respect that, but there's one specific point that I see as being invalid. Just because it wasn't the best match of the night shouldn't decrease it's rating like it did. Knocking a match's rating down for that sole reason alone has never resignated in my mind.


----------



## watts63

M.W. said:


> There really is no disputing if KENTA/Taiji Ishimori vs. Naomichi Marufuji/Kota Ibushi was the match of the night because it was, but I don't buy into what you said about the crowd not reacting. They reacted virtually everytime a double move occurred.
> 
> Also, your opinion on whether or not it was better than their first match is your opinion and I respect that, but there's one specific point that I see as being invalid. Just because it wasn't the best match of the night shouldn't decrease it's rating like it did. Knocking a match's rating down for that sole reason alone has never resignated in my mind.



Just to let you know, I didn't decrease the star rating of the match because KENTA/Ishimori vs. Marufuji/Ibushi was better.

It would have gotten a ****1/4 if Mark Briscoe didn't botch the moonsault/backbreaker tag team manuever when he mostly landed on Jay Briscoe.


----------



## USAUSA1

I';m surprise to see a lot of NOAH matches. I think the company been fairly weak for the past year and a half. I rank them fourth overall in Japan at the moment.


----------



## Corey

^^^ NOAH has had some of the best tag matches in the world this year.

*NOAH 7/15 - The Briscoes vs. Kotaro Suzuki/Ricky Marvin*
The Briscoes are the best tag team in the WORLD. They are absolutely on fire this year. Anyway, crowd was pretty drained from the last match but they REALLY got into it in the last few minutes. I was actually kinda confused on who was heel and who was face (if that's how it was). I thought the Briscoes were the heel team, but at one point in the match, Marvin kicked Mark square in the nuts, so I don't know... Their 1/21 match and the previous match in the same show match was a tad better, but this was phenomenal. Oh, and this match REALLY needs to happen in an ROH ring, cause the crowd would be insane and if they had this kind of match, or the kind of match they had 1/21, it'd be *****.
*****1/2*


----------



## Blasko

USAUSA1 said:


> I';m surprise to see a lot of NOAH matches. I think the company been fairly weak for the past year and a half. I rank them fourth overall in Japan at the moment.


 Just because NOAH is in a slight slump doesn't mean it can't pull out great matches.


----------



## watts63

You know what, I'm gonna watch both 7/15 tag team matches again.

EDIT:

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07*
KENTA & Taiji Ishmori vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi ****1/4-****1/2
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki ****1/4-****1/2


----------



## Corey

*TNA Slammiversary - King of the Mountain Match*
Despite the rules being confusing to some people, it's not hard to love this match. Total non-stop action the whole way through (pun intended). AJ was the story here though as he was involved in some crazy spots. Chris Harris was looking pretty damn impressive as well. But there's one small problem with this match: Joe absolutely disappeared for the last couple minutes of the match. He was laying on the floor but they never showed why he was laid out...  My current TNA MOTY but I've yet to see the Texas Death Match from Sacrifice...
*****1/4*


----------



## KeepItFresh

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *TNA Slammiversary - King of the Mountain Match*
> Despite the rules being confusing to some people, it's not hard to love this match. Total non-stop action the whole way through (pun intended). AJ was the story here though as he was involved in some crazy spots. Chris Harris was looking pretty damn impressive as well. But there's one small problem with this match: Joe absolutely disappeared for the last couple minutes of the match. He was laying on the floor but they never showed why he was laid out...  My current TNA MOTY but I've yet to see the Texas Death Match from Sacrifice...
> *****1/4*


That was a fine match, but I probably wouldn't give it anything higher than ***1/2. The Texas Death Match on the other hand I'd give ****.


----------



## Corey

*WWE Vengeance - Edge vs. Batista*
Not much to see in the first half of the match. Just a lot of armwork on Batista's shoulder. Then the second half really picks. Lots of near falls. It's a good thing Teddy restarted the match too cause that ending would of been shitty (DQ). After the restart there's another huge near fall and they're some people in the crowd who go NUTS when Batista kicks out. :lmao But the finish was really gay.  Still a great match.
******


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Future Star said:


> Sorry, but i totally disagree, i thought it was a little slow and definately not ****1/2, i have it at ***3/4


Okay...why?

Obviously your opinion is your own and I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying that it seems a little odd for a match to lose *1/4 for being 'a little slow'

And that said, even the slowness was more deliberate than boring. The two of them were playing human chess, building up to their signature moves instead of just hitting them. On top of that, the finish was glorious overkill and made Strong look like a vicious killer.

It does have some unneccesarily slow points which keep it from being ***** for me, but I don't see it losing a full star over that. If anything, I think it was more hurt by placement, which is why I watched it by itself instead of watching the show in full (though I rarely watch wrestling DVDs in full in one sitting)

But yeah...not doing something as pretentious as saying you're wrong. Just wondering what your reasoning is.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Double posting, because this is an entirely different subject.

Finally got around to watching Nagata vs. Tanahashi. I was really, really impressed by it. Moreover, it was nice to see Tanahashi stepping up to the role of a main eventer after months of sorta missing the point of it. While Nagata did a lot of good as the grumpy veteran beating the piss out of the poor, young champ, it was Tanahashi's work which really brought the match together.

The work on the leg in particular was brilliant. It started with him seeing an opening and progressed nicely after that. He's finding himself unable to handle Nagata in a toe to toe fight, so he works smart instead. This works both to weaken Nagata and limit his ability to use his kicks and several of his big moves. At one point it even saves him from certain defeat.

Once the big moves kick in, it's a fun ride. Nagata and Tanahashi both make it look like a dozen moves are going to finish and bring the escalation really well. To me though, it's one single moment which shows why Nagata won. When he puts his knees up to block the frog splash, it furthers the damage to his leg. That said, he takes the damage in order to inflict more on his opponent and ultimately get the opening he needs to come back and take the win.

Great, great match which makes both men look phenominal and really makes me want to watch more of the NJPW heavyweights.

****1/2, #4 on my MOTY list.


----------



## Corey

^^^ What's your top 3? Just curious...


----------



## Future Star

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Okay...why?
> 
> Obviously your opinion is your own and I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying that it seems a little odd for a match to lose *1/4 for being 'a little slow'
> 
> And that said, even the slowness was more deliberate than boring. The two of them were playing human chess, building up to their signature moves instead of just hitting them. On top of that, the finish was glorious overkill and made Strong look like a vicious killer.
> 
> It does have some unneccesarily slow points which keep it from being ***** for me, but I don't see it losing a full star over that. If anything, I think it was more hurt by placement, which is why I watched it by itself instead of watching the show in full (though I rarely watch wrestling DVDs in full in one sitting)
> 
> But yeah...not doing something as pretentious as saying you're wrong. Just wondering what your reasoning is.


Im stunned that you can actually consider it being almost a perfect match.

I just rewatched it and yes they were building up to the finishers, but yet it was still slow and somewhat boring at times. The crowd chanted "ROOOODDERRRIIICCCKKK" the entire match which annoyed me. They would start off decent paced. Then start the body work. Then all of a sudden, they get this energy to go fast paced, then go back to slow again, and back to a fast paced match AGAIN. I am still sticking with ***3/4, but may also bump it to ****, but i certainly dont see ****1/2


----------



## Corey

*Dragon Gate - May 10 (Infinity 64) - Open The Triangle Gate - CIMA/Ryo Saito/Susumu Yokosuka vs Shingo/BxB Hulk /Cyber Kong*
First thought that went through my mind: :lmao Cyber Kong looks like one goofy motherfucker. This is the first time I've seen him and he didn't do too much that impressed me so that doesn't help my impression on him either.  But anyway, the first 5 minutes of the match was crazy with guys running around throwing shit at each other, running out of the ring to attack somebody else, just not going very smooth. But then it got a lot better, and these guys really wanted to beat the hell out of each other. The last 5-6 minutes were awesome, with a lot of near falls and innovative double teams. BxB Hulk has now become one of my favorite DG wrestlers (which is such a long list since they have so many talented guys). Oh, and Shingo's finisher is sweet. 
******


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod

I think I'd have to agree that my current MOTY is the KOTM match at Slammiversary. I had modest expectations after last year's KOTM, which was a surprisingly boring spot-fest, but I loved every second of this match. It was a rare combination of a great match AND a great spot-fest. Harris and Cage had wonderful chemistry, as did Joe and Angle, and Styles was wonderful, as always. Despite that, everyone still worked very well with each other, and the right man won. Just an amazingly entertaining match, and my favorite of the year.


----------



## Cryme Tyme

Just watched Jimmy Jacobs vs BJ Whitmer in the cage and thats was insanly good ****.


----------



## watts63

Yesterday, I saw The Briscoes vs. Ibushi/Marufuji from NOAH 7/01/07 on youtube & y'all should check out. I think I gave it ***3/4-**** or **** so I need to watch it again.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Just finished watching Nigel McGuinness vs. Takeshi Morishima from RoH Fighting Spirit.

I'm not really sure what to say about this one...

It felt a lot like a NOAH main event, with all the strengths and weaknesses. A lot of people will say Nigel carried Morishima to a great showing, but I really felt Mori carried the match. Nigel looked like a fool throughout, using great armwork then completely forgetting to go back to it in favour of a million lariats. He also failed to capitalize on the Tower of London off the apron, which was easily the biggest move he hit in the match. He was facing a bigger and tougher opponent and should have wrestled smart instead of hard.

That said, they did a nice job of working an intense, hard hitting match. Both guys brought a lot of fire to the table and made you legitimately wonder who was going to walk out with the title. The finishing sequence is a terrific cap to a 'big match' styled contest. 

Really good stuff...and maybe a low-end MOTYC. ****


----------



## Corey

Rewatched the *Dragon Gate 6-Man from ROH SCOH2* last night, and I have to say, I gotta bump down the rating to *****1/4*. There were so many things that happened in the match that were unnecessary. (Yokosuka's arm work, DK's leg work) and they picked the pace up, and you thought it was gonna get real good, but then they went back to isolation on one guy. It doesn't make sense. Last year's was better and I believe the crowd was better last year as well. Still an awesome match though. And to showcase ROH's awesomeness this year, I've compiled their MOTYC list *(in chronological order):*


*ROH MOTYC (****+)
*1. Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima (FYF: NYC) - ****
2. The Briscoes vs. Kevin Steen/El Generico (FYF: Philly) - ****1/4
3. Roderick Strong vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Pelle Primeau vs. Shingo vs. Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Cross (FYF: Dayton) - **** 
4. Windy City Death Match: Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs (FYF: Chicago) - ****
5. The Briscoes vs. Shingo/Naruki Doi (FYF: Liverpool) - ****
6. Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe (FYF: Finale) - ****1/2
7. Shingo/Naruki Doi vs. Roderick Strong/Davey Richards (FYF: Finale) - ****1/4
8. Fight Without Honor: Nigel McGuinness vs. Jimmy Rave (FYF: Finale) - ****1/4
9. Samoa Joe vs. Homicide (FYF: Finale) - ****
10. Roderick Strong vs. Jack Evans (ASE III) - ****+
11. ROH vs. Dragon Gate 8-Man Tag (ASE III) - ****1/2
12. Austin Aries vs. Roderick Stong (SCOH II) - ****
13. Steel Cage: BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs (SCOH II) - ****1/2
14. Dragon Gate 6-Man (SCOH II) - ****1/4
15. Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness (Fighting Spirit) - ****
16. Takeshi Morishima vs. Austin Aries (BOSP) - ****
17. The Briscoes vs. Murder City Machine Guns (GTGM) - ****3/4
18. Takeshi Morishima vs. Shingo (GTGM) - ****1/4
19. The Briscoes vs. Claudio Castagnoli/Matt Sydal (Respect Is Earned) - ****1/2


----------



## watts63

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/03/07*
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****1/2-****3/4​
Excellent tag team wrestling. Marvin & Suzuki are the #2 best tag team in the world, period. Ishimori was incredible. KENTA in tag team matches terrific as usual. Too bad KENTA missing a kick which Marvin sold because it could have gotten ****3/4.


----------



## Corey

^^^ Damn I need to download that. Stupid sendspace free service thingy won't let me....

*ROH Respect is Earned*

*R**OH World Tag Team Titles: The Briscoes(c) vs. Claudio Castagnoli/Matt Sydal
*This is the definition of tag team wrestling in ROH. High energy, fast paced, great double teams, near falls, etc. MOTN. Nothing else to say... just watch it.
*****1/2*


----------



## watts63

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07*
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/4-****1/2​
NTV Cup has been terrific. Great matches over & over from KENTA/Ishimori, Briscoes & Suzuki/Marvin.


----------



## musdy

gonna add The Briscoes vs. Sydal & Castagnoli


----------



## MrPaiMei

Briscoes vs. KENTA/Ishimori - Okay, this was awesome. Really hot up until the final, last second nearfall. Awesome crowd too and the Briscoes are perfect as scumbag foreign heels, working a good 10 minute heat segment on Ishimori. Just misses my top 10. ****1/4

KENTA/Ishimori vs. Suzuki/Marvin - Another perfectly worked match, just slightly less exciting with a slightly worse crowd. It is apparent now, however, they were holding back for the upcoming title match. ****, maybe a really low end ****1/4.


----------



## ROH

^ Which NOAH show was that?

After reading this thread I had to download the NOAH 7/15/07 show. Those 2 tag matches better be MOTYCs!



watts63 said:


> *Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07*
> KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/4-****1/2​
> NTV Cup has been terrific. Great matches over & over from KENTA/Ishimori, Briscoes & Suzuki/Marvin.


Watts man, where are you getting all this stuff?


----------



## Taker578

Marvin/Suzuki vs The Briscoes, Jan 07. Its going to be hard to beat it.


----------



## MrPaiMei

I posted them in the other section, they're unaired.


----------



## Sephiroth

*KENTA & Ishimori vs. Marufuji & Ibushi - **** 1/2*

man, i can't believe how over Ibushi is. he really impressed me. it's good seeing the younger guys stepping up and giving NOAH staples likes KENTA a run for his money


----------



## watts63

ROH™ said:


> ^ Which NOAH show was that?
> 
> After reading this thread I had to download the NOAH 7/15/07 show. Those 2 tag matches better be MOTYCs!
> 
> 
> Watts man, where are you getting all this stuff?


On the Other section in Wrestling Multimedia.


----------



## dav

the briscoes vs mcmg was awesome


----------



## ROH

Found 'em.


----------



## Cage21

I haven't seen any of he NTV Cup matches yet so, I'd have say MCMG/Briscoes from GTGM..


----------



## Corey

*AJPW 2/17 - World Jr. Heavyweight Title - Shuji Kondo(c) vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima*
Finally found this match and downloaded it after I heard such awesome things about it. First let me just say that Nakajima is SO damn good for his age. :agree: He looks like he's been in the ring for years and has such a large arsenal of moves. I'd love to see him face either KENTA or Marufuji... Anyway, this was a damn good match. I love how they cut over to Sasaki and he always looks so shocked and baffled. It's pretty funny. Not too much else I can say cause I'm not too familiar with either of them, but they were both really impressive. I love Kondo's finisher. 
*****1/4*

And for anyone else who needs to see this match, keep an eye on the media section cause I've got it uploading right now and it'll be up later tonight. But also keep in mind that it's MP4 format...


----------



## Cage21

> AJPW 2/17 - World Jr. Heavyweight Title - Shuji Kondo(c) vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima
> Finally found this match and downloaded it after I heard such awesome things about it. First let me just say that Nakajima is SO damn good for his age. He looks like he's been in the ring for years and has such a large arsenal of moves. I'd love to see him face either KENTA or Marufuji... Anyway, this was a damn good match. I love how they cut over to Sasaki and he always looks so shocked and baffled. It's pretty funny. Not too much else I can say cause I'm not too familiar with either of them, but they were both really impressive. I love Kondo's finisher.
> ****1/4
> 
> And for anyone else who needs to see this match, keep an eye on the media section cause I've got it uploading right now and it'll be up later tonight. But also keep in mind that it's MP4 format...


That's one of the only matches that people talk about that I haven't seen. Too bad I can' tplay MP4's or know of anything that does play MP4's

Anyone care to point me in the right direction?


----------



## Corey

Cage21 said:


> That's one of the only matches that people talk about that I haven't seen. Too bad I can' tplay MP4's or know of anything that does play MP4's
> 
> Anyone care to point me in the right direction?


I use Quicktime. Just downloaded it right off their site...


----------



## Sephiroth

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I use Quicktime. Just downloaded it right off their site...


MP4 is the main iTunes format. so Quicktime, iTunes, or a certain format package for Winamp, RealPlayer, or WMP works too


----------



## Corey

Just posted it:
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other/357827-ajpw-2-17-07-shuji-kondo-vs-katsuhiko-nakajima-mp4-motyc.html#post4547131


----------



## Cage21

I normally use Winamp so I'll have to look for that format package. Thanks.


----------



## McQueen

I use VLC Media player which works for pretty much everything. I does kinda suck for WMV files but I still have that in my player list so it's all good.


----------



## Future Star

I cant really download anything as my computer is packed, i guess i need to delete some matches


----------



## Spartanlax

Takeshi Morishima vs. Austin Aries- ****
Takeshi Morishima vs. Shingo- ****3/4
Briscoe Brothers vs. Murder City Machine Guns- ****3/4
Drake Younger vs. CJ Otis (Barbed Wire)- ****


----------



## Penishead

Just download the Klite codec pack to play MP4's or convert the video.


----------



## McQueen

Spartanlax said:


> Takeshi Morishima vs. Shingo- ****3/4


:shocked: highest rating I've seen for that match.

Anyone want to take a guess at why I've had GTGM for about 3 weeks now and I still haven't finished the show.


----------



## Spartanlax

McQueen said:


> :shocked: highest rating I've seen for that match.
> 
> Anyone want to take a guess at why I've had GTGM for about 3 weeks now and I still haven't finished the show.


I've watched it more than 10 times since I've gotten it, and it's honestly one of my favorite matches ever. Everything is just soooo perfect...but I just don't feel good giving it 5 stars, so I did the next best thing.


----------



## -Mystery-

McQueen said:


> :shocked: highest rating I've seen for that match.
> 
> Anyone want to take a guess at why I've had GTGM for about 3 weeks now and I still haven't finished the show.


Too busy with porn?


----------



## Corey

McQueen said:


> :shocked: highest rating I've seen for that match.
> 
> Anyone want to take a guess at why I've had GTGM for about 3 weeks now and I still haven't finished the show.


Cause you've watched Morishima/Shingo and Briscoes/MCMG over and over again?



-Mystery- said:


> Too busy with porn?


:lmao


----------



## McQueen

-Mystery- said:


> Too busy with porn?


:lmao

It was a hypothetical question but I like your answer. Nah i'm just a little burnt out on ROH and Wrestling in general lately, but I really should go back and finish the show.

I've watched up the Toland's segment, I haven't seen the Tag Match yet.


----------



## -Mystery-

Yeah, I kinda know what you mean. I love watching wrestling but if I watch too many shows in a row I become completely burnt out. For example, last Thanksgiving weekend, I watched Anarchy in the UK, Epic Encounter II, Gut Check, and both nights of Glory By Honor V in like a span of 3 days. I didn't watch wrestling for 2 weeks after that.


----------



## Caligula

McQueen said:


> :lmao
> 
> It was a hypothetical question but I like your answer. Nah i'm just a little burnt out on ROH and Wrestling in general lately, but I really should go back and finish the show.
> 
> I've watched up the Toland's segment, I haven't seen the Tag Match yet.


Watch MCMG/Briscoes plz.


----------



## Spartanlax

I didn't care for ROH for about 6 months after watching 20 shows in a week. Live shows I loved, but I'd buy the DVDs and never watch. I just started really watching wrestling again, like, a month and a half ago.


----------



## McQueen

I've still got a buncha stuff from IPV to watch too (like 3 full G-1 Climax's, the GHC Title History) so that doesn't help. I've been scrambling to get that watched and i've gone and overdone it. :$


----------



## MrPaiMei

I'm feeling it too. I've been watchin a lot more movies lately as its currently looking like my college will be a film school. But I am bringing a new friend to DBDV N1 so I made a comp of the Briscoe-Steenerico stuff released so far so were gonna have to bang through that soon.


----------



## KingKicks

-Mystery- said:


> Yeah, I kinda know what you mean. I love watching wrestling but if I watch too many shows in a row I become completely burnt out. For example, last Thanksgiving weekend, I watched Anarchy in the UK, Epic Encounter II, Gut Check, and both nights of Glory By Honor V in like a span of 3 days. I didn't watch wrestling for 2 weeks after that.


I know that feeling, watched 5 ROH shows + 2 Dragon Gate + 1 AJPW in 1 week.
And now I've yet to finish my other 11 IVP DVDs and that was about 2 weeks ago.


----------



## Sephiroth

i remember when i watched Great American Bash 2004 live at a friend's house....i was burnt out for at least a month

same thing would have happened after December to Dismember, but luckily i got over it once the the show started for Chicago Spectacular: Night 1


----------



## watts63

benjo said:


> I know that feeling, watched 5 ROH shows + 2 Dragon Gate + 1 AJPW in 1 week.
> And now I've yet to finish my other 11 IVP DVDs and that was about 2 weeks ago.


In christmas, I watched 2 ROH shows, 6 PWG shows & like 7 puro shows in a week. I was burnt out for a month.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

That's why I almost never watch full shows.

Honest to god, unless I'm in the mood to do a review, I tend to just pick and choose matches based on what I'm in the mood for. Otherwise I'd still be watching tapes.


----------



## ROH

I got burtn out a while ago, never been for ages though.

And Spartanlax, I read your Pulse review for Shingo/Shima, and let me highlight a part of it that is completely wrong;

"'Shima behead Shingo with one of his best looking lariats yet, and then only gets a two count"

NO WAY. That lariat sucked. It was planned for Shingo to flip over, but he flipped over too early, so Shima's arm barely grazed his forehead. Calling it one of his best lariats yet = overhyping.


----------



## ROH

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Rewatched the *Dragon Gate 6-Man from ROH SCOH2* last night, and I have to say, I gotta bump down the rating to *****1/4*. There were so many things that happened in the match that were unnecessary. (Yokosuka's arm work, DK's leg work) *and they picked the pace up, and you thought it was gonna get real good, but then they went back to isolation on one guy*. It doesn't make sense. Last year's was better and I believe the crowd was better last year as well. Still an awesome match though.


Oh c'mon dude, that happens in just about every Briscoes' match. Also, it was more of a case of Shingo seeing how dangerous Dragon Kid's legs were (after he saw the hurricanrana on Yokosuka) so he decided to work them over/take them out of the equation.


----------



## Corey

ROH™ said:


> Oh c'mon dude, that happens in just about every Briscoes' match. Also, it was more of a case of Shingo seeing how dangerous Dragon Kid's legs were (after he saw the hurricanrana on Yokosuka) so he decided to work them over/take them out of the equation.


But there really wasn't any reason for it. It didn't play any part in the match. It's not like anybody sold anything. In just about every Yokosuka singles match that I've seen, they always work on his arm and he never sells. It's Jumbo No Kachi after Jumbo No Kachi. It's pointless... Still ****1/4. Last years was better like I said and I've seen better OTTG matches.


----------



## ROH

Jack Evans 187 said:


> But there really wasn't any reason for it. It didn't play any part in the match. It's not like anybody sold anything. In just about every Yokosuka singles match that I've seen, they always work on his arm and he never sells. It's Jumbo No Kachi after Jumbo No Kachi. It's pointless... Still ****1/4. Last years was better like I said and I've seen better OTTG matches.


I see where you're coming from, but I have to disagree on the Susumu point. I've seen at least 3 (1 of which was a OTTG match) where he has definately sold his arm, in general and hitting the Jumbo No Kachis.

-----

*Pro wrestling NOAH: 15/7/07*

*MOTYC*: *KENTA and Tajiri Ishmori vs Naomichi Marufuji and Kota Ibushi* - *****1/2_****3/4*. Everything clicked, it was just all out awesomeness. Would have a solid 4*3/4 without certain botches.

-----

Also, from the same show, *The Briscoes vs Marvin and Suzuki 2* in no way near an MOTYC IMO. 5 of the main bad points:



Repetivity. There was way too many superkicks, dropkicks and elbows/forearms.

Pacing. After Mark made the hot tag (after he was worked over) they went into a finishing sequence pace, hitting big moves. They did this for like, 5 minutes, then slowed down and the Briscoes worked over Suzuki. WTF!? They should have gone straight to working over Suzuki. The Briscoes even hit the Doomsday Device (like it's not one of their main finishers)!

Botches. I counted like, 8.

Un-crispness. Both teams were no where near as crisp as they usually are.

The very finish. Mark kicked out of like, 4 finishers there. WTF!? Shouldn't have happened.
Sorry to be a negative asshole, but those things _really_ stood out to me. It's a shame this match was put on after such a masterpeice (KENTAIshmore vs MaruIbushi) because the fans were pretty dead. 

I liked the Briscoes' heel work, and how they played off things from their earlier encounter. The final few minutes (despite Mark kicking out of things he shouldn't have) were pretty damn good, I must say.

****1/2* rating wise, I wouldn't even think of going ****+ or calling it a MOTYC.


----------



## watts63

I'm gonna finally watch Kondo vs. Nakajima. I can't wait!


----------



## Spartanlax

ROH™ said:


> I got burtn out a while ago, never been for ages though.
> 
> And Spartanlax, I read your Pulse review for Shingo/Shima, and let me highlight a part of it that is completely wrong;
> 
> "'Shima behead Shingo with one of his best looking lariats yet, and then only gets a two count"
> 
> NO WAY. That lariat sucked. It was planned for Shingo to flip over, but he flipped over too early, so Shima's arm barely grazed his forehead. Calling it one of his best lariats yet = overhyping.


It is one his best lariats since coming to ROH, mostly due to the way Shingo sold it. Flip too early? No, he flipped when he got hit. And he didn't graze him, he mostly made contact. You also gotta remember; the dude is 300 pounds, even grazing someone while running near-full speed is gonna be enough to take him out. Yes, it wasn't perfect, or phenomenal, but his other ones thus far haven't looked that well anyway, so that's why I call it one of his best yet in ROH. But, saying it sucked? Bogus, dude. Then again, you're the guy that is always talking about how a lariat looks, like if someone doesn't get run over and flip onto their head then it's not good enough. At least, I think that was you, correct me if I'm mistaken. You expect way too much from lariats, not everyone can pull a Danielson or Styles when they get hit. Either way, the comment stands.


----------



## ROH

Spartanlax said:


> It is one his best lariats since coming to ROH, mostly due to the way Shingo sold it. Flip too early? No, he flipped when he got hit. And he didn't graze him, he mostly made contact. You also gotta remember; the dude is 300 pounds, even grazing someone while running near-full speed is gonna be enough to take him out. Yes, it wasn't perfect, or phenomenal, but his other ones thus far haven't looked that well anyway, so that's why I call it one of his best yet in ROH. But, saying it sucked? Bogus, dude. Then again, you're the guy that is always talking about how a lariat looks, like if someone doesn't get run over and flip onto their head then it's not good enough. At least, I think that was you, correct me if I'm mistaken. You expect way too much from lariats, not everyone can pull a Danielson or Styles when they get hit. Either way, the comment stands.


Well that wasn't me, cos I've never said that, and if a lariat looks stiff or powerful then it's fine for me, selling by flips is not always neccasary (sp?).

I just rewatched the lariat, and I'm not changing my mind at all. One of the worst lariats I've ever seen. I think you should re-watch it too, but this time (I'm guessing you haven't done thins yet) watch it in *slow-mo*. If you watch it on slow-mo, you'll see how the lariat BARELY connected.


----------



## Spartanlax

Hmm, coulda sworn you were angry that a 'bad-looking lariat' got a pinfall a while back. My bad, hard to keep track.

I've seen the lariat 10+ times, 'cause that's how many times I've watched the match...but why would I watch it in slow-mo? That's just a stupid thing to do, because wrestling's FAKE! If you slow down everything, you'd be surprised how many things don't connect at all, such as Joe's jumping knee strike off the top/middle rope. It looks great every time, but doesn't touch the guy at all...slowing it down is just gonna ruin that moment and possibly that match. If you're literally sitting there slowing moves down to try and see how 'bad' it is, you're gonna end up ruining a lot of great moments for yourself. The point is; it looks like it connects, it sounds like it connects, Shingo sells like it connects...so it connects. Remember; suspend disbeleif, keep your finger off the 1/2 Speed button.


----------



## ROH

Spartanlax said:


> Hmm, coulda sworn you were angry that a 'bad-looking lariat' got a pinfall a while back. My bad, hard to keep track.
> 
> I've seen the lariat 10+ times, 'cause that's how many times I've watched the match...but why would I watch it in slow-mo? That's just a stupid thing to do, because wrestling's FAKE! If you slow down everything, you'd be surprised how many things don't connect at all, such as Joe's jumping knee strike off the top/middle rope. It looks great every time, but doesn't touch the guy at all...slowing it down is just gonna ruin that moment and possibly that match. If you're literally sitting there slowing moves down to try and see how 'bad' it is, you're gonna end up ruining a lot of great moments for yourself. The point is; it looks like it connects, it sounds like it connects, Shingo sells like it connects...so it connects. Remember; suspend disbeleif, keep your finger off the 1/2 Speed button.


Well ending a match with a weak looking move = weak ending, as simple as that.

FYI, I don't watch much on slow mo. I saw it normally, and thought "wait a minute, that looked like it didn't connect. I'll watch it in slow mo to prove if it did/didn't". And hell no, it did not. It didn't look like it connected, it didn't sound like it connected (there was no noise from it), Shingo just looked like a fool for selling it (yeah I know he can't no sell it, wrestling is fake). So it didn't actually connect.


----------



## $id

ROH™ said:


> Mystery was right. Further explanation isn't needed. There's no point in wasting time on people like you.
> 
> P.S KENTA/Dragon was ***** and the 2006 MOTY. :agree:


Oh my gawd!,v r teh watch onle wraslin in gyms n stdios..Wwe r teh bad cuz it r no wersltin.

I mean fuck?,do you seriously need to watch 30-40-50-60 mins of matches to make it awsome? Wrestling was never meant to be always technical?,it was always suppose to just entertain and grasp a crowd.Wrestling entertains its not real...NOT REAL.If you suddenly like the wwe style which actually entertains and provide variety rather to a similar "technical" match ALL the fucking time is disaster to the eyes.Im not putting down roh but the IWC thinks whatever is mainstream and whatever is technical is always good.Sometimes it just isnt.And what no need to explain,say you cant back answer.An intelligent post was posted by reinhimer and it was valid might I add need explaination.

Typical internet fan...Thinks he knows all about wrestling.

Reinhimer=Awsome


----------



## -Mystery-

$id said:


> Oh my gawd!,v r teh watch onle wraslin in gyms n stdios..Wwe r teh bad cuz it r no wersltin.
> 
> I mean fuck?,do you seriously need to watch 30-40-50-60 mins of matches to make it awsome? Wrestling was never meant to be always technical?,it was always suppose to just entertain and grasp a crowd.Wrestling entertains its not real...NOT REAL.If you suddenly like the wwe style which actually entertains and provide variety rather to a similar "technical" match ALL the fucking time is disaster to the eyes.Im not putting down roh but the IWC thinks whatever is mainstream and whatever is technical is always good.Sometimes it just isnt.And what no need to explain,say you cant back answer.An intelligent post was posted by reinhimer and it was valid might I add need explaination.
> 
> Typical internet fan...Thinks he knows all about wrestling.
> 
> Reinhimer=Awsome


:lmao 

I'm laughing because ROH made that post on 4/22 and you waited 3 months to rebut him. :lmao


----------



## ROH

$id said:


> Oh my gawd!,v r teh watch onle wraslin in gyms n stdios..Wwe r teh bad cuz it r no wersltin.
> 
> I mean fuck?,do you seriously need to watch 30-40-50-60 mins of matches to make it awsome? Wrestling was never meant to be always technical?,it was always suppose to just entertain and grasp a crowd.Wrestling entertains its not real...NOT REAL.If you suddenly like the wwe style which actually entertains and provide variety rather to a similar "technical" match ALL the fucking time is disaster to the eyes.Im not putting down roh but the IWC thinks whatever is mainstream and whatever is technical is always good.Sometimes it just isnt.And what no need to explain,say you cant back answer.An intelligent post was posted by reinhimer and it was valid might I add need explaination.
> 
> Typical internet fan...Thinks he knows all about wrestling.
> 
> Reinhimer=Awsome


I don't know it ALL about wrestling, but judging by your post that didn't make sense, I know a hell of a lot more than you.


----------



## watts63

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Takeshi Morishima vs. SHINGO ****1/2

*ROH Battle of St. Paul*
Takeshi Morishima vs. Austin Aries ****

--------------------------------------------

*ROH 6/23/07*
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA III *****

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****3/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/03/07*
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****1/2-****3/4

*CZW Out With The Old, In With The New*
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****1/2

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe ****1/2

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/21/07*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****1/2

*ROH Respect is Earned*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal & Claudio Castagnoli ****1/2

*WWE Royal Rumble ‘07*
John Cena vs. Umaga ****1/2

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Takeshi Morishima vs. SHINGO ****1/2

*PWG DDT4 Tag Team Title Tournament Night One*
Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA ****1/4-****1/2

*AJPW 2/17/07*
Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima ****1/4-****1/2

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07*
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi ****1/4-****1/2

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer ****1/4

*ROH 7/16/07*
Bryan Danielson vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4

*Dragon Gate 4/17/07*
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid, BxB Hulk, Anthony W. Mori & Matt Sydal vs. Magnitude Kishiwada, Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi, Gamma, Cyber Kong & Jack Evans ****1/4

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
CIMA, SHINGO & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid & Masaaki Mochizuki ****1/4

*NJPW 4/13/07*
Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi ****1/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/24/07*
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Rocky Romero & Taiji Ishimori ****1/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07*
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/4

*ROH All-Star Extravaganza III*
CIMA, Ryo Saito, Susumu Yokosuks & Dragon Kid vs. Austin Aries, Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious & Rocky Romero ****-****1/4

*WWE Vengeance '07*
Edge vs. Batista ****-****1/4

*IWA-MS Sunday Bloody Sunday*
Necro Butcher vs. Masada ****-****1/4

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Dayton*
Roderick Strong vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. M-Dogg 20 vs. Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO vs. Pelle Primeau ****-****1/4

*CHIKARA Rey de Voladores*
Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli ****-****1/4

*ROH Battle of St. Paul*
Takeshi Morishima vs. Austin Aries ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: NYC*
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima ****

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki II ****

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07*
Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Samoa Joe vs. Homicide ****

*IWA-MS HURT 2007*
Roderick Strong vs. Low Ki ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Philly*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Chicago*
Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****

*ROH Fighting Spirit*
El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. Jay Briscoe & Erick Stevens & Then Mark Briscoe ****

*IWA-MS It's Gotta Be The Shoes*
Chuck Taylor vs. Low Ki ****

*WWE RAW ???*
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels II ****

*ROH Fight At The Roxbury*
Nigel McGuinness vs. Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Mike Quackenbush ****

*ROH Fight At The Roxbury*
Kevin Steen vs. Mark Briscoe ****

*ROH Respect is Earned*
Rocky Romero vs. Naomichi Marufuji ****​


----------



## ROH

Not really MOTYCs in my eyes, but not too far off.

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/03/07* - *Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori* - ******.
*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07* - *KENTA and Tajiri Ishmori vs the Briscoes* - *****1/4*.

I can't quite put my finger on why they aren't high, probably because I'm not too much of a fan of long matches - both matches were 30 mins each, with 5 mins cut off I probably would have liked them more.


----------



## watts63

Two More MOTYCs:

*ROH 6/23/07*
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA III *****

*AJPW 2/17/07*
Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima ****1/4-****1/2


----------



## ROH

watts63 said:


> *AJPW 2/17/07*
> Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima ****1/4-****1/2


Aaand you know this, man!


----------



## Future Star

*KENTA vs Bryan Danielson 6/23/07*​This is just a fantastic match, i have it at eaither ****3/4 or *****. The only thing that is stopping me from definately going to a full *****, is how KENTA no sold the GTS and the MMA elbows wile dragon was on KENTAS shoulders for the GTS. He should have let him down, dragon go for either some kind of suplex or a lariat, then KENTA could hit the GTS for the win...It is very close to call though, the rest of this match is phenomonal


----------



## Sephiroth

Future Star said:


> *KENTA vs Bryan Danielson 6/23/07*​This is just a fantastic match, i have it at eaither ****3/4 or *****. The only thing that is stopping me from definately going to a full *****, is how KENTA no sold the GTS and the MMA elbows wile dragon was on KENTAS shoulders for the GTS. He should have let him down, dragon go for either some kind of suplex or a lariat, then KENTA could hit the GTS for the win...It is very close to call though, the rest of this match is phenomonal


you should check out PaiMei's comments about Danielson's Go To Sleep in the Indy DVD Thread if you haven't already.


----------



## watts63

*ROH 7/16/07*
Bryan Danielson vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4​
Bring Shiozaki back to ROH Gabe, PLZ.


----------



## T-C

Just watched Dragon vs KENTA. Holy shit was that excellent. Even the slight botch with the powerbomb worked. So stiff, so intense, so well wrestled, so compelling.

I could see a lot of people bitching about KENTA "no-selling" the Go 2 Sleep. But I thought it was Fighting Spirit done the the way Fighting Spirit should be done.

Incredible match, and definetly my current MOTY.


----------



## Blasko

As I said in the Indy DVD thread, I have Go/Danielson at **** 1/2 at the first watch. 

Go should be pushed in NOAH. After seeing this, I don't know what he's a jobber in NOAH.


----------



## T-C

-Blasko- said:


> As I said in the Indy DVD thread, I have Go/Danielson at **** 1/2 at the first watch.
> 
> *Go should be pushed in NOAH. After seeing this, I don't know what he's a jobber in NOAH*.


Because there seems to be a real hierarchy in NOAH of people who can go over other people. Therefore Go hasn't really got his foot in the door yet.

It sucks, but I'm hoping it will change if Kobashi returns.


----------



## Blasko

that's cool said:


> Because there seems to be a real hierarchy in NOAH of people who can go over other people. Therefore Go hasn't really got his foot in the door yet.
> 
> It sucks, but I'm hoping it will change if Kobashi returns.


 I really don't see why people think NOAH is going to make a "ZOMG WTF" huge change as soon as Kobashi returns.

I see change, but no really big changes.


----------



## T-C

-Blasko- said:


> I really don't see why people think NOAH is going to make a "ZOMG WTF" huge change as soon as Kobashi returns.
> 
> I see change, but no really big changes.


It may not change the landscape of NOAH, but it will be a big boost for Go's career. I really don't think Kobashi will be able to go for long spells in main event matches when he comes back. So I see him starting off with a tag run, with his apprentice, Go, as his most likely partner, therefore giving a Go a nice push.

It is fantasy booking, but it is probably the most likely outcome.


----------



## Blasko

I really don't see Kobashi going to the tag division. I see him doing some big stuff. 

Who knows. His return is a good 5 months away.


----------



## T-C

-Blasko- said:


> I really don't see Kobashi going to the tag division. I see him doing some big stuff.
> 
> Who knows. His return is a good 5 months away.


There is no way he can just come back from freakin' cancer and go wrestle a NOAH main event with all they entail. He needs to break himself in. 

I see him doing the Takayama role for a while, to see how he fares.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Kobashi would be awesome as the Misawa to Go's Akiyama.

Interestingly enough, I could see Akiyama and Rikioh working well as their Holy Demon Army. It would be to a lesser extent, but you get the idea.


----------



## dragonkid

The MOTY has to be Jimmy jacobs and Lacey of course.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

...

Lame.

Very, very lame.


----------



## Sephiroth

dragonkid said:


> The MOTY has to be Jimmy jacobs and Lacey of course.


considering Jimmy has become disinterested in Lacey for reason unknown, i doubt this will be the case at the end of the year.


----------



## ROH

Rewatcehed Dragon/KENTA 3, and let me just say, for me, it's no where near *****. I don't know why, I just really haven't enjoyed it on both views. Maybe it's because everything just felt a step below the GBHV: N2 encounter IMO.

Still a great MOTYC (****1/2) but no where near their GBHV: N2 match and ***** IMO.

-----

Gonna watch Go vs Dragon now, hopefully that's as good as everyone say it is.

EDIT: Go/Dragon was GREAT. I enjoyed it way more than KENTA/Dragon. *****1/4_****1/2* rating wise, low end MOTYC.


----------



## Corey

It's great hearing how good KENTA/Dragon III and Dragon/Go were. I think I'm gonna wait for the PPV and for the DVD to see them though. I already have a bunch of other stuff to watch. The unaired NTV Cup matches are next...


----------



## Sephiroth

Jack Evans 187 said:


> It's great hearing how good KENTA/Dragon III and Dragon/Go were. I think I'm gonna wait for the PPV and for the DVD to see them though. I already have a bunch of other stuff to watch. The unaired NTV Cup matches are next...


KENTA/Dragon III wasn't for the PPV. they are gonna have Dragon vs. Nigel from 6/9 as the main event of the PPV instead

i just realized...Dragon vs. Nigel AND Dragon vs. KENTA III on the same dvd :|

that's gotta already be a contender for best ROH dvd ever


----------



## Corey

sephy37 said:


> KENTA/Dragon III wasn't for the PPV. they are gonna have Dragon vs. Nigel from 6/9 as the main event of the PPV instead
> 
> i just realized...Dragon vs. Nigel AND Dragon vs. KENTA III on the same dvd :|
> 
> that's gotta already be a contender for best ROH dvd ever


Wait, I'm confused. So what was the date for Dragon/KENTA III again??


----------



## Sephiroth

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Wait, I'm confused. So what was the date for Dragon/KENTA III again??


6/23. the 2nd PPV taping. but it was just a match for the live crowd and dvd.


----------



## Corey

sephy37 said:


> 6/23. the 2nd PPV taping. but it was just a match for the live crowd and dvd.


Okay, so Dragon/Nigel is gonna main event the PPV, but it's from 6/22, right??

And the rest of 6/23 (except for Dragon/KENTA III) will be on the PPV, correct?

If this is correct then I'll have to download ^ right now...


----------



## ROH

Jack Evans 187 said:


> 1 Okay, so Dragon/Nigel is gonna main event the PPV, but it's from 6/22, right??
> 
> 2 And the rest of 6/23 (except for Dragon/KENTA III) will be on the PPV, correct?
> 
> 3 If this is correct then I'll have to download ^ right now...


1) *Nigel/Dragon* is from 6/9. 6/22 had *Shima and Marufuji vs Nigel McGuiness and Dragon*.

2) Yes, except Nigel vs Hero.

3) Dragon/KENTA won't be out for a while, so yeah, you should DL it.


----------



## Sephiroth

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Okay, so Dragon/Nigel is gonna main event the PPV, but it's from 6/22, right??
> 
> And the rest of 6/23 (except for Dragon/KENTA III) will be on the PPV, correct?
> 
> If this is correct then I'll have to download ^ right now...


Dragon/Nigel was a surprise match on the 6/9 Philly show. 

not all the matches from 6/23 will be on the PPV. i'm certain Hero vs. Nigel and Dragon vs. KENTA won't.

as for the PPV, it'll most likely be...



Spoiler



1) NRC (Strong, Romero, Richards) vs. The Resilience (Stevens and Cross) & Delirious 
2) Claudio vs. Sydal 
3) Morishima vs. Rave 
4) Albright vs. Pelle 
5) Briscoes vs. Generico/Steen
6) Nigel vs. Dragon

not quite sure about Albright vs. Pelle or Mori's title defense. Mori fought twice on the show, once against Rave and then later when Pearce made an open challenge, so who knows. 

also there was a really good women's tag match, but i don't think it'll be on the PPV)



so yeah, go download it now!


----------



## MrPaiMei

Dragon/Nigel is 6/8. The PPV in full should be:
EDIT: I see I have been beaten. I think the whole first half will be the PPV though, here's my timeing
Delirious, Stevens, Cross vs. Strong, Richards, Romero w/Aries return segment (20 min)
Claudio vs. Sydal w/Sydal and Hero segment (15 minutes)
Marufuji vs. Whitmer (15 minutes)
Albright vs. Pelle (5 minutes)
Morishima vs. Rave (8 minutes)
Briscoes vs. Steen/Generico (20 minutes)
Dragon vs. Nigel (35 minutes)

Those are all generous and it still equals out under 2 hours.


----------



## Corey

ROH™ said:


> 1) *Nigel/Dragon* is from 6/9. 6/22 had *Shima and Marufuji vs Nigel McGuiness and Dragon*.
> 
> 2) Yes, except Nigel vs Hero.
> 
> 3) Dragon/KENTA won't be out for a while, so yeah, you should DL it.


Thanks for the help. I was getting real confused. But just cause Dragon/Nigel is on the PPV, they aren't going to push back the release of the 6/9 show are they? Cause I was definitely gonna get that. (I believe it's the show where Mori faced Roddy...)


----------



## Sephiroth

MrPaiMei said:


> Marufuji vs. Whitmer (15 minutes)


ugh, i forgot about this match. what a bunch of crap. Whitmer really knows how to bring the suck.


----------



## watts63

sephy37 said:


> ugh, i forgot about this match. what a bunch of crap. Whitmer really knows how to bring the suck.


Wow it was that bad?


----------



## MrPaiMei

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Thanks for the help. I was getting real confused. But just cause Dragon/Nigel is on the PPV, they aren't going to push back the release of the 6/9 show are they? Cause I was definitely gonna get that. (I believe it's the show where Mori faced Roddy...)


The match was clipped off. The 6/9 DVD, to be released within a week probably, will feature the 6/9 show minus Dragon/Nigel. The 6/23 DVD, to be released October 28, will feature the 2nd PPV on one disc (including Dragon/Nigel 6/9) and the second half of 6/23 on Disc Two (Dragon/KENTA, Nigel/Hero).


----------



## Sephiroth

watts63 said:


> Wow it was that bad?


well i rated it ***, but Marufuji is the highlight. if it weren't for him and his usual awesomeness, it would have been way lower.


----------



## ROH

ROH in Japan 7/16/07 - *The Briscoe Brothers and Naomichi Marufuji vs Matt Sydal, Ricky marvin and Atsuchi Aoki* - *****1/2*.

AWESOME stuff, it's in the media section, DL/Watch it now!

NOTE: It would have been like, MOTY if KENTA was in it.


----------



## Corey

MrPaiMei said:


> The match was clipped off. The 6/9 DVD, to be released within a week probably, will feature the 6/9 show minus Dragon/Nigel. The 6/23 DVD, to be released October 28, will feature the 2nd PPV on one disc (including Dragon/Nigel 6/9) and the second half of 6/23 on Disc Two (Dragon/KENTA, Nigel/Hero).


Ok thanks. I'm definitely gonna have to get 6/23. It looks like it could be ROH's best release ever. And 6/9 minus Dragon/Nigel still looks like a very good all-around show. :agree:


----------



## gusbarba

WWE
Cena vs HBK

TNA
Joe vs Christian

JAPAN
Briscoes vs Marvin &Suzuki

Mexico (CMLL) 
Mistico vs Averno


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH In Japan 7/16/07*

*Bryan Danielson vs. Go Shiozaki* - ****1/2 - Go needs to be booked for more ROH, the guy is just phenomenal. I was excited for this match when it was announced and it didn't disappoint me in the slightest.

*The Briscoes and Naomichi Marufuji vs Matt Sydal, Ricky Marvin and Atushi Aoki* - ****1/4 - Great match, The Briscoes and Marufuji were a great team, pulled out great triple team moves and the crowd loved them as well. As ROH said, if KENTA had been in it it may of been MOTY.


----------



## Future Star

Benjo, did u find that on a torrent like mystery did?


----------



## Sephiroth

Future Star said:


> Benjo, did u find that on a torrent like mystery did?


those two matches are in the indy media section here. both from the same thread


----------



## KingKicks

Future Star said:


> Benjo, did u find that on a torrent like mystery did?


Yeah i did.


----------



## watts63

Two Great Matches From ROH Fight At The Roxbury:

Kevin Steen vs. Mark Briscoe ****

Chris Hero vs. Nigel McGuinness vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Mike Quackenbush ****


----------



## KingKicks

watts63 said:


> Two Great Matches From ROH Fight At The Roxbury:
> 
> Kevin Steen vs. Mark Briscoe ****
> 
> Chris Hero vs. Nigel McGuinness vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Mike Quackenbush ****


Damn i'm really looking forward to those two, i can't believe my DVDs haven't arrived yet.


----------



## ROH

benjo said:


> The Briscoes and Marufuji were a great team, pulled out great triple team moves and the crowd loved them as well.


:agree: Best thing I've heard all day!

Agreed on the rest of the post, too, but I have the 6 man at ****1/2.


----------



## KENTA80

MOTY so far: MCMG vs Briscoes


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Hm, for all the hype, I was really let down by Low Ki vs. Roderick Strong from Hurt. They started off strong with some nice matwork and Ki teasing kicks, but it sort of fell apart in the middle. While Roderick was in control, it was an excellent match. His offense was fresh and varied and great, and if his heat segments were longer, this would have been a better match. However, Ki spent so much time in control that it totally exposed him as unable to do anything beyond kick people. The useless bastard does nothing else, aside from poor looking chops. Even when they go to the finishing sequence, it's Roderick's work that gets me into the near falls. Due only to his great work is this a good match at all, though it's no MOTYC and it completely exposes Ki as the shitty worker he is. ***1/2

Mike Quackenbush vs. Chris Hero from CHIKARA however, I loved. This match is getting no real outward praise, and yet it's so very good. They do a nice job building on how well these two know each other, how desperate Quack is to win, and how Hero wants to not only beat Quack, but embarass him so he can force him to wait another two years. The early matwork is great, the pace is smooth and builds nicely to a hot finishing sequence and a killer submission move. Worth noting that a submission is easily the best and most satisfying ending for it too. My only complaint is that it felt a bit too short and honestly felt like it was MISSING something. Perhaps it needed more hate. Anyway, it's a low end MOTYC for me, and a really fun match beyond that. ****1/4


----------



## ROH

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Hm, for all the hype, I was really let down by Low Ki vs. Roderick Strong from Hurt. They started off strong with some nice matwork and Ki teasing kicks, but it sort of fell apart in the middle. While Roderick was in control, it was an excellent match. His offense was fresh and varied and great, and if his heat segments were longer, this would have been a better match. However, Ki spent so much time in control that it totally exposed him as unable to do anything beyond kick people. The useless bastard does nothing else, aside from poor looking chops. Even when they go to the finishing sequence, it's Roderick's work that gets me into the near falls. Due only to his great work is this a good match at all, though it's no MOTYC and it completely exposes Ki as the shitty worker he is. ***1/2
> 
> Mike Quackenbush vs. Chris Hero from CHIKARA however, I loved. This match is getting no real outward praise, and yet it's so very good. They do a nice job building on how well these two know each other, how desperate Quack is to win, and how Hero wants to not only beat Quack, but embarass him so he can force him to wait another two years. The early matwork is great, the pace is smooth and builds nicely to a hot finishing sequence and a killer submission move. Worth noting that a submission is easily the best and most satisfying ending for it too. My only complaint is that it felt a bit too short and honestly felt like it was MISSING something. Perhaps it needed more hate. Anyway, it's a low end MOTYC for me, and a really fun match beyond that. ****1/4


I agreee on the Hurt match, it does get well ovehyped here for what it is. But I have to disagree on the Low Ki points. If you say all he can do/does is kick people I think you need to see a bit more of his work, because I've seen great (****+) Low Ki matches with barely any kicks. Also, if you think his chops suck, watch his chops in his match vs KENTA @ ROH FB05. If you call those poor looking then I don't know what your standards are for good looking chops.

I'm happy about the Hero/Quack love, because, live reports stated it to be awesome, and I realy love the match on paper, but when the DVD came out and everyone saw it, and everyone slagged it off - I'm glad someone likes it/thinks it's good.


----------



## -Mystery-

I still think Ki/Strong is a top tier MOTYC and I've watched the match atleast 10 times. To each his own I suppose.


----------



## El Conquistador

-Mystery- said:


> I still think Ki/Strong is a top tier MOTYC and I've watched the match atleast 10 times. To each his own I suppose.


Same here. I've viewed it once live and once when I got the DVD, still can't come to the realization that it's a *** - ***3/4 match. I have it at ****1/4, my goal is to rewatch it tonight after I get home from work. I'll post my thoughts then.


----------



## watts63

I got Ki vs. Strong at ****.


----------



## Spartanlax

UD already knows that I will never, ever understand his hate for Ki. Ever. 

But, Hero/Quack with a rating like THAT?! That's shocking to me. The match was really good, but nothing special, the finish sucked, etc.


----------



## watts63

Spartanlax said:


> UD already knows that I will never, ever understand his hate for Ki. Ever.
> 
> But, Hero/Quack with a rating like THAT?! That's shocking to me. The match was really good, but nothing special, the finish sucked, etc.



I agree. Hero vs. Quackenbush got ***3/4 from me.


----------



## ROH

Spartanlax said:


> UD already knows that I will never, ever understand his hate for Ki. Ever.
> 
> But, Hero/Quack with a rating like THAT?! That's shocking to me. The match was really good, but nothing special, the* finish sucked*, etc.


I recently spoke (on MSN messenger) to a friend who is a huge CHIKARA mark, and he said the finish to Quack/Hero wasn't bad at all.

How it went (as accurately as I can remember):



> Me: A few people on a forum I'm on said the finish to Quack/Hero sucked.
> 
> Him: Wrong.
> 
> Me: They said the submisssion didn't look painful at all.
> 
> Him: Hero was tied up and had NOWHERE to go.


I'll wait till I see the match myself (when my YL5N3 DVD arrives) to judje it.


----------



## Spartanlax

Well, you spoke to a CHIKARA mark, that's why, haha. Here's the thing; while the submission hold did tie up Hero, he tapped out in about ten seconds (I forget, only watched it twice like a month ago, but it was really quick) despite no previous body work and the submission focused weakly on the entire body, so like it didn't affect one part of the body strongly, just a lot of the body weakly. Not only that, but as you know Hero's a tall motherfucker, and he has a free leg the entire time that could have most easily kneed Quack in his SURGICALLY-REPAIRED back. At first glance, the submission makes sense for the simple fact that Hero can't really move, but then you look at it more and think about it and it makes Hero look like a retard.


----------



## elo

benjo said:


> *ROH In Japan 7/16/07*
> 
> *Bryan Danielson vs. Go Shiozaki* - ****1/2 - Go needs to be booked for more ROH, the guy is just phenomenal. I was excited for this match when it was announced and it didn't disappoint me in the slightest.


Only 4.5!? I thought this match was perfection...Go IMO is the best seller in the business...and Danielson was his usual awesomeness. The match had everything, great technical chain segments, plenty of hard hits, high flying, power struggle grapples...just excellent flow to it, the Japanese went nuts after this one. My favourite singles match this year.


----------



## ROH

Spartanlax said:


> Well, you spoke to a CHIKARA mark, that's why, haha. Here's the thing; while the submission hold did tie up Hero, he tapped out in about ten seconds (I forget, only watched it twice like a month ago, but it was really quick) despite no previous body work and the submission focused weakly on the entire body, so like it didn't affect one part of the body strongly, just a lot of the body weakly. Not only that, but as you know Hero's a tall motherfucker, and he has a free leg the entire time that could have most easily kneed Quack in his SURGICALLY-REPAIRED back. At first glance, the submission makes sense for the simple fact that Hero can't really move, but then you look at it more and think about it and it makes Hero look like a retard.


I see your point with it making Hero look stupid etc, but I don't think the move needs this much analysis. It was more of a really satisfying babyface win to a big feud, rather than a one off technical wrestling match when yeah, the analysis on the move would be appropriate.

Sorry for basing my argument only on what I've heard/read.


----------



## MrPaiMei

It's not really a MOTYC, but I posted one of my favorite NOAH 6-mans from this year in the other media section, Dragon/Nigel/Romero vs. Shiozaki/Morishima/Yone. It's probably ***1/2 or so, but it's SO entertaining and hot, kinda similar to the PWG 8-mans everyone loves.


----------



## ROH

elo said:


> *Only 4.5!?* I thought this match was perfection...Go IMO is the best seller in the business...and Danielson was his usual awesomeness. The match had everything, great technical chain segments, plenty of hard hits, high flying, power struggle grapples...just excellent flow to it, the Japanese went nuts after this one. My favourite singles match this year.


I doubt you'll see anyone give it higher than 4.5...


----------



## watts63

MrPaiMei said:


> It's not really a MOTYC, but I posted one of my favorite NOAH 6-mans from this year in the media section, Dragon/Nigel/Romero vs. Shiozaki/Morishima/Yone. It's probably ***1/2 or so, but it's SO entertaining and hot, kinda similar to the PWG 8-mans everyone loves.


Yeah that was one my favorite NOAH matches this year. It was faster pace than I thought it would be & normally a NOAH Six-Man Tag is. ***1/2-***3/4 from me.


----------



## KingKicks

MrPaiMei said:


> It's not really a MOTYC, but I posted one of my favorite NOAH 6-mans from this year in the other media section, Dragon/Nigel/Romero vs. Shiozaki/Morishima/Yone. It's probably ***1/2 or so, but it's SO entertaining and hot, kinda similar to the PWG 8-mans everyone loves.


That was very enjoyable and i loved the opening exchange between Nigel and Morishima.

And on the subject of Shiozaki vs.Danielson

It was a fantastic match, while watching it going through my mind was "This is the kind of match that makes me love wrestling" but i just coulden't give it anymore then that.


----------



## MrPaiMei

I gave Danielson-Shiozaki ****, great match. Great match, great selling by Shiozaki and a great way to get around the limb work to the finish unlike certain other Japan vs. America matches recently...... I just couldn't give it any higher though, considring it was a middle of the show match with no backstory or hate or anything.


----------



## watts63

Danielson/Shiozaki is ****1/4 by me. I couldn't give it any higher myself.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Homicide and Low Ki vs. Necro Butcher and Toby Klein - 6/30

This was great. It was a intense, awesome brawl that didn't go on too long and had a bunch of cool shit. But, very much like Joe-Necro, it had some glaring flaws. The Rott did not really sell at all for the Deathmatch guys and gave them basically nothing while the TCB bumped like crazy. HOWEVER, unlike Joe-Necro, this wasn't even just a straight beating, it had a great story of them trying to "out-crazy" each other. Low Ki threw some of the sickest kicks of all time to Necro, and the infamous table spot is definatly cringe worthy. There's an awesome spot where Cide headbutts Toby, Toby barks, and Cide's all like "Lets go then" and they roll in the ring and have a headbutt contest. If this had a white hot crowd comparable to Joe-Necro, it'd probably be a MOTYC, but it didn't, so it isn't. Probably about ****. However, this makes me EXTREMELY excited to see Masada/Necro vs. Ki/Hernandez in Texas. If you wanna check this match out, my request folder in my sig has it, it was upped by the uncomparably awesome mike-e. Check if you have anything I need while your at it .


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

ROH™ said:


> I agreee on the Hurt match, it does get well ovehyped here for what it is. But I have to disagree on the Low Ki points. If you say all he can do/does is kick people I think you need to see a bit more of his work, because I've seen great (****+) Low Ki matches with barely any kicks. Also, if you think his chops suck, watch his chops in his match vs KENTA @ ROH FB05. If you call those poor looking then I don't know what your standards are for good looking chops.
> 
> I'm happy about the Hero/Quack love, because, live reports stated it to be awesome, and I realy love the match on paper, but when the DVD came out and everyone saw it, and everyone slagged it off - I'm glad someone likes it/thinks it's good.


I've been watching Low Ki since 2002 and have seen matches from pre-RoH as well as more recent stuff. I am well aware of his resume. That said, I think he's devolved from a very solid wrestler in his own right to a spotty arrogant prick since the first time he left Ring of Honor. His offense thinned out and his matches started to devolve to stiff-fests. 

I've seen his match with KENTA too, and honestly I don't recall the chops so they must not have impressed me. 

I'm not ignorant, and I could (and have done in the past) easily make a point-by-point explanation of why I hate Ki. It's just not really the time or the place.

As for Quack vs. Hero, I could see why people may not put it over ****. A lot of what pushes it over for me is understanding of the build behind things. They took past matches and built upon them, also showing a different kind of hatred from the garden variety...a whole lot of little things done well imo.

As for the finish...it was a good finish. Saying the move didn't look credible borders on absurd, as Quack wrapped him up like a pretzel which is more or less enough. Remember, this is pro wrestling. It doesn't matter if the move is strong, only that it's over.

Never forget this is a medium which uses Irish Whips.


----------



## Spartanlax

Yeah, Quack wrapped him up in a way where he pretty much couldn't roll anywhere or move, and that's why I didn't mind it at first, and was actually impressed by it. But, Hero just tapped way too fast...especially since one of his extremely long legs was free and could have easily kneed Quack in the back, which made Hero look a bit silly. I just wish the hold wasn't more than "you can't move" after all they had been through.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Ehh...my point is basically that as long as the hold was over, it doesn't matter.

Like I said...it's not the move, it's how the fans are conditioned to believe in the move.


----------



## El Conquistador

*CHIKARA Rey De Voladores -- Up In Smoke vs. F.I.S.T 2/3 Falls​*
After watching this match, I truly can't figure out which was more impressive: Quack & Leonard on commentary or how surprisingly delightful the match itself was. Let me just say, my expectations weren't high. Cloudy & Cheech didn't impress me at the IWA-MS Candido Cup and I'm just not sold on Icarus.

Well, oddly enough, the match itself was tremendous. The story pertaining to Cheech & Cloudy being underdogs along with the extensive amount of time they dominated the match really played a helping hand in increasing my rating.

The double team moves, signature moves, and high impact moves hit in this match was beneficial too. Akuma is the fucking man. Besides the weak looking top rope powerbomb finish and Cloudy puking, the match was virtually perfect. If not for those two principles, I would have rated this match much much higher. Oh yeah, I was affably bewildered that the much went 20 + minutes.

One of the better North American tag team matches I've viewed this year.

*Rating:* ****


----------



## watts63

As of 7/27/07

*ROH 6/23/07*
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA III ****3/4-*****

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****3/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/03/07*
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****1/2-****3/4

*CZW Out With The Old, In With The New*
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****1/2

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe ****1/2

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/21/07*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****1/2

*ROH Respect is Earned*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal & Claudio Castagnoli ****1/2

*WWE Royal Rumble ‘07*
John Cena vs. Umaga ****1/2

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Takeshi Morishima vs. SHINGO ****1/2

*PWG DDT4 Tag Team Title Tournament Night One*
Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA ****1/4-****1/2

*AJPW 2/17/07*
Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima ****1/4-****1/2

*ROH 7/16/07*
Bryan Danielson vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4-****1/2

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07*
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi ****1/4-****1/2

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer ****1/4

*Dragon Gate 4/17/07*
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid, BxB Hulk, Anthony W. Mori & Matt Sydal vs. Magnitude Kishiwada, Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi, Gamma, Cyber Kong & Jack Evans ****1/4

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
CIMA, SHINGO & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid & Masaaki Mochizuki ****1/4

*NJPW 4/13/07*
Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi ****1/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/24/07*
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Rocky Romero & Taiji Ishimori ****1/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07*
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/4

*ROH All-Star Extravaganza III*
CIMA, Ryo Saito, Susumu Yokosuks & Dragon Kid vs. Austin Aries, Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious & Rocky Romero ****-****1/4

*WWE Vengeance '07*
Edge vs. Batista ****-****1/4

*ROH 7/16/07*
Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness II ****-****1/4

*IWA-MS Sunday Bloody Sunday*
Necro Butcher vs. Masada ****-****1/4

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Dayton*
Roderick Strong vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. M-Dogg 20 vs. Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO vs. Pelle Primeau ****-****1/4

*CHIKARA Rey de Voladores*
Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli ****-****1/4

*ROH 7/16/07*
Naomichi Marufuji, Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal, Ricky Marvin & Atsushi Aoki ****-****1/4

*ROH Battle of St. Paul*
Takeshi Morishima vs. Austin Aries ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: NYC*
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima ****

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki II ****

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07*
Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Samoa Joe vs. Homicide ****

*IWA-MS HURT 2007*
Roderick Strong vs. Low Ki ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Philly*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Chicago*
Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****

*ROH Fighting Spirit*
El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. Jay Briscoe & Erick Stevens & Then Mark Briscoe ****

*IWA-MS It's Gotta Be The Shoes*
Chuck Taylor vs. Low Ki ****

*WWE RAW 4/23/07*
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels II ****

*ROH Fight At The Roxbury*
Nigel McGuinness vs. Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Mike Quackenbush ****

*ROH Fight At The Roxbury*
Kevin Steen vs. Mark Briscoe ****

*ROH Respect is Earned*
Rocky Romero vs. Naomichi Marufuji ****

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Austin Aries vs. Rocky Romero ****

*PWG Based On A True Story*
El Generico & Quicksilver vs. Phoenix Star & Zorke ****​


----------



## ROH

M.W. said:


> *CHIKARA Rey De Voladores -- Up In Smoke vs. F.I.S.T 2/3 Falls​*
> After watching this match, I truly can't figure out which was more impressive: Quack & Leonard on commentary or how surprisingly delightful the match itself was. Let me just say, my expectations weren't high. Cloudy & Cheech didn't impress me at the IWA-MS Candido Cup and I'm just not sold on Icarus.
> 
> Well, oddly enough, the match itself was tremendous. The story pertaining to Cheech & Cloudy being underdogs along with the extensive amount of time they dominated the match really played a helping hand in increasing my rating.
> 
> The double team moves, signature moves, and high impact moves hit in this match was beneficial too. Akuma is the fucking man. Besides the weak looking top rope powerbomb finish and Cloudy puking, the match was virtually perfect. If not for those two principles, I would have rated this match much much higher. Oh yeah, I was affably bewildered that the much went 20 + minutes.
> 
> One of the better North American tag team matches I've viewed this year.
> 
> *Rating:* ****


Awesome! Some proper appreciation for that match. It's actually one of my favorites of the year, most likely because on that night (April 22nd), on this other board I'm on with only diehard CHIKARA fans and the ones who frequently attend shows, EVERYONE really wanted Cheech and Cloudy to win. I remember as the results came in, as Cheech and Cloudy got the first fall I was marking out. In the end with FIST winning, I was indeed dissapointed, but watching the match wand all those great nearfalls, remembering how I thought Cheech and Cloudy were gonna do it was awesome.


----------



## Role Model

Cena/HBK II was on Monday 23rd of April, just so you know.


----------



## Word

Role Model said:


> Cena/HBK II was on Monday 23rd of April, just so you know.


I think everyone on this forum wanted to know that. Definatley MOTYC due to its length.


----------



## watts63

Role Model said:


> Cena/HBK II was on Monday 23rd of April, just so you know.


Thanks I forgot what the date that match was. Great match tho.


----------



## ROH

Word.Life said:


> Definatley MOTYC due to its length.


Ok, I haven't seen the match or anything, but just because a match is long doesn't mean it's good.

-----

*Dragon Gate MOTY* (a general MOTYC too): Susumu Yokosuka, Dragon Kid and Ryo Saito vs Magnitude Kishiwada, Naruki Doi and Masato Yoshino vs SHINGO, Cyber Kong and BxB Hulk - *****1/2* (nearly ****3/4 from me, BTW)


----------



## Role Model

Best match I've ever seen live, although that's not saying much when I've only ever been to two Raw's, but still...


----------



## ROH

MrPaiMei said:


> ROH™ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, I haven't seen the match or anything, but just because a match is long doesn't mean it's good.
> 
> The whole match was built around them trying to outlast each others moves and hang on, so the length, especially in the current stage of WWE, made the match special and contributed greatly to the story.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the explanation, I thought the other guy was just saying long = good.
Click to expand...


----------



## Role Model

That guy probably was to be honest.


----------



## musdy

Typhoon vs. Muscle Outlaw'z Naniwa-Style Elimination Match: CIMA & Susumu Yokosuka & Ryo Saito & Dragon Kid & Anthony W. Mori & BxB Hulk & Matt Sydal vs. Magnitude Kishiwada & Naruki Doi & Gamma & Genki Horiguchi & Masato Yoshino & Cyber Kong & Jack Evans- ****


----------



## watts63

*ROH 7/16/07*
Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness II ****-****1/4​
Why their jaws didn't break? It's very cool the japanese crowd chanted ROH before the match started. It's weird that the japanese crowd didn't like when Morishima pushed Sinclair but the crowd here loves it lol.

*After McGuinness Uppercutted Danielson*
Danielson: WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR PROBLEM?!


----------



## Word

Great American Bash 2007
John Cena Vs. Bobby Lashley
***3/4

I just have to move it up to the **** I loved this match. It showed a great conrast in their styles and showed how powerful and dominant Lashley could be. Cena struggled in this match to cope and we all new it wouldnt take a typical FU to win. He had to climb up the top rope and pull a great spot off. The build up I thought was pretty decent and built up to great tension in this solid main event. Maybe not MOTY but thought I would mention it.​


----------



## KingKicks

watts63 said:


> *ROH 7/16/07*
> Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness II ****-****1/4​
> Why their jaws didn't break? It's very cool the japanese crowd chanted ROH before the match started. It's weird that the japanese crowd didn't like when Morishima pushed Sinclair but the crowd here loves it lol.
> 
> **After McGuinness Uppercutted Danielson*
> Danielson: WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR PROBLEM?*!



LOL i loved that part, and how the crowd just went silent when Danielson said it.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Yuji Nagata vs. Togi Makabe - IWGP Championship

This was so great, so anarchic, the crowd was molten. It's a Makabe match through and through, chain, scissors, interferance, and it works perfectly. Nagata, still awesome manipulating crowds, makes his comebacks at the perfect moments, while all hell is breaking loose. Once the ref decides enough is enough, these two guys, bloodied, just start throwing bombs at each other, seeing who can withstand more punishement. I know Nagata gets hate here, but he is SO awesome at building to his big moves so when he hits that head kick, or backdrop, it means something. ****, maybe ****1/4.


----------



## McQueen

MrPaiMei said:


> Yuji Nagata vs. Togi Makabe - IWGP Championship
> 
> This was so great, so anarchic, the crowd was molten. It's a Makabe match through and through, chain, scissors, interferance, and it works perfectly. Nagata, still awesome manipulating crowds, makes his comebacks at the perfect moments, while all hell is breaking loose. Once the ref decides enough is enough, these two guys, bloodied, just start throwing bombs at each other, seeing who can withstand more punishement. I know Nagata gets hate here, but he is SO awesome at building to his big moves so when he hits that head kick, or backdrop, it means something. ****, maybe ****1/4.


I think Nagata is a great wrestler, a little bit of a bland personality but still he's awesome in the ring. Anyways this match sounds pretty good and I may just have to check it out, NJPW has been putting out a series of great title matches this year.

I just watched KENTA vs Danielson III, I haven't given it a definitive rating yet but after I rewatch it i'll probably put it at **** 1/2, maybe **** 3/4. One of the better matches this year though for sure.


----------



## Thats_howIroll

Still have to see a ton of matches. Matches with the same rating are NOT IN ORDER.


----------



## Role Model

Where's Cena/HBK II? How you can have KOTM match, Royal Rumble, Cena/Lashley, Team Angle/Team Cage and Edge/Batista and then not have that is really strange in my opinion.


----------



## KingKicks

Role Model said:


> Where's Cena/HBK II? How you can have KOTM match, Royal Rumble, Cena/Lashley, Team Angle/Team Cage and Edge/Batista and then not have that is really strange in my opinion.


That's exactly what i was thinking.

Cena vs. Batista was good imo but not a MOTYC.

HBK vs. John Cena, Taker vs. Batista and Umaga vs. Cena Last Man Standing are the only WWE matches i consider MOTYC's.


----------



## ROH

Thats_howIroll said:


> Still have to see a ton of matches. Matches with the same rating are NOT IN ORDER.


You really should see NOAH's NTV cup.


----------



## -Mystery-

ROH™ said:


> You really should see NOAH's NTV cup.


I'm getting ready to watch the 7/15 NOAH show along with Suzuki & Marvin vs. KENTA & Ishimori and KENTA & Ishimori vs. Briscoes. 

Is Aoki & Romero vs. Suzuki & Marvin worth downloading?


----------



## Thats_howIroll

ROH™ said:


> You really should see NOAH's NTV cup.


I'm about to watch one of the matches right now. I have the video paused on my computer.


----------



## watts63

-Mystery- said:


> I'm getting ready to watch the 7/15 NOAH show along with Suzuki & Marvin vs. KENTA & Ishimori and KENTA & Ishimori vs. Briscoes.
> 
> Is Aoki & Romero vs. Suzuki & Marvin worth downloading?


Yeah. it's not a MOTYC but it's very good match. I think I give ***1/2-***3/4.


----------



## ROH

-Mystery- said:


> I'm getting ready to watch the 7/15 NOAH show along with Suzuki & Marvin vs. KENTA & Ishimori and KENTA & Ishimori vs. Briscoes.
> 
> Is Aoki & Romero vs. Suzuki & Marvin worth downloading?


Cool.

And no, Aoki and Romero vs Suzuki and Marvin isn't worth downloading. It's not horrible, but it's nothing special.


----------



## Role Model

Role Model said:


> Where's Cena/HBK II? How you can have KOTM match, Royal Rumble, Cena/Lashley, Team Angle/Team Cage and Edge/Batista and then not have that is really strange in my opinion.


Bump incase you missed it Thats_howIroll. :$


----------



## Thats_howIroll

Role Model said:


> Bump incase you missed it Thats_howIroll. :$


I just started to watch Raw again this summer because I was really busy during the school year. So yeah I haven't seen the match yet. Oh and all those matches except Edge vs Batista I had at ***3/4-**** but I ended up including them in the list.



ROH said:


> Pro wrestling NOAH: 15/7/07
> 
> *MOTYC: KENTA and Tajiri Ishmori vs Naomichi Marufuji and Kota Ibushi - ****1/2_****3/4. Everything clicked, it was just all out awesomeness. Would have a solid 4*3/4 without certain botches.*
> 
> -----
> 
> Also, from the same show, The Briscoes vs Marvin and Suzuki 2 in no way near an MOTYC IMO. 5 of the main bad points:
> Repetivity. There was way too many superkicks, dropkicks and elbows/forearms.
> Pacing. After Mark made the hot tag (after he was worked over) they went into a finishing sequence pace, hitting big moves. They did this for like, 5 minutes, then slowed down and the Briscoes worked over Suzuki. WTF!? They should have gone straight to working over Suzuki. The Briscoes even hit the Doomsday Device (like it's not one of their main finishers)!
> Botches. I counted like, 8.
> Un-crispness. Both teams were no where near as crisp as they usually are.
> The very finish. Mark kicked out of like, 4 finishers there. WTF!? Shouldn't have happened.
> Sorry to be a negative asshole, but those things really stood out to me. It's a shame this match was put on after such a masterpeice (KENTAIshmore vs MaruIbushi) because the fans were pretty dead.
> 
> I liked the Briscoes' heel work, and how they played off things from their earlier encounter. The final few minutes (despite Mark kicking out of things he shouldn't have) were pretty damn good, I must say.
> 
> ***1/2 rating wise, I wouldn't even think of going ****+ or calling it a MOTYC.


I just watched that match and it was amazing. There were a couple weird spots in the match where a guy would not get hit but sold it anyway, but sometimes you have to sell those moves so you don't mess up the match. That match is currently sitting at ****3/4 for me. Currently watching Briscoes vs Marvin & Suzuki II.


----------



## T-C

5 STAR CLASSIC!!!!

Mil Mascaras' Important Luchadors, Dos Mil Siete Bellwood & Ray High Mountain vs Toru Owashi/Johnny Dan, NOSAWA GENOME, July 6, 2007.


----------



## McQueen

that's cool said:


> 5 STAR CLASSIC!!!!
> 
> Mil Mascaras' Important Luchadors, Dos Mil Siete Bellwood & Ray High Mountain vs Toru Owashi/Johnny Dan, NOSAWA GENOME, July 6, 2007.


5 STARS? Fuck that more like

********3/4

That match was so awesome :lmao


----------



## watts63

Must...see...this...match!


----------



## McQueen

watts63 said:


> Must...see...this...match!


Make sure you also see Kiku Angle vs Muscle Lesnar from the same show too :lmao


----------



## T-C

McQueen said:


> Make sure you also see Kiku Angle vs Brock Lesnar from the same show too :lmao


Dude, it was Muscle Lesnar vs Kiku Angle vs Josh Kintaro for the NGF Heavyweight Title. It was fantastic, but it didn't have the smooth lucha transitions that the tag offered.


----------



## Ste

My top 4 Matches of the year so far

KENTA/Danielson - *****
MCMG/Brsicoes - ****3/4 (as close to ***** as you can get)
Briscoe/Briscoe - ****1/2
Cena/Umaga - ****1/2​


----------



## ROH

*CHIKARA MOTY* (so far)*, general MOTYC*

Aniversario? : *Mike Quackenbush vs Chris Hero*

The biggest and most anticipated match in CHIKARA history, and boy did it deliver. Right from the opening bell you could tell Quack wasn't wasting this near once in a lifetime oppurtunity, going straight for the win with a few quick pin attempts. He then proceeded to explode with lucha on Hero, changing up his usual armdrag variations for Hero knoews them, and could easily counter them. When Hero gained control, it was beautiful. Hero worked over Quack perfectly, overpowering him, working the injured back and just plain disrespecting Quack. Quack's comeback was AWESOME on so many levels (Quack knowing Hero's moves, Hero getting cocky, etc), I marked out like nuts when he hit that palm strike. Some excellent nearfalls to follow up, Quack putting the emphasis on his kickouts showed how desperate he was to keep fighting and win the match. And when Quack headbutted Hero, you knew this match was heated. The finish was downright AMAZING. That match combined with some of the crispest wrestling I've ever seen, a hot crowd and a great post match promo from Quack makes this the best and my favourite match in CHIKARA history.

-----

I've seen lots of people here crap on the finish, so let me give a five reasons why it was no where near a bad finish;

1) It fit the match perfectly. (Quack coming up with something new because the ususal stuff Hero knows and would reverse)
2) Hero was tied up and had nowhere to go.
3) (Hero couldn't reach the ropes) There was no other way Hero could have gotten out of it. (He couldn't have kneed Quack in the back, because his free leg was around the other side of Quack, so he would have had to knee Quack in the stomach or something) 
4) The move was over. It doesn't matter if it looked weak, if the fans thought it was credible, it was credible. Ask yourself this: What's more credible; a random Indy headrop (Saito suplex) or a slam that always pins someone (Jushin Liger's Liger Bomb)?
5) A clean finish to a match with a finisher is no way bad.


----------



## Spartanlax

Holy shit, Quack truly is the most overrated man on the indy circuit.


----------



## Role Model

Glad someone has said it.


----------



## ROH

Spartanlax said:


> Holy shit, Quack truly is the most overrated man on the indy circuit.


Is that supposed to be a comeback on my reasons why the finsh was good? If so, it wasn't a very good one.


----------



## Blasko

Spartanlax said:


> Holy shit, Quack truly is the most overrated man on the indy circuit.


 That title goes to Tom Carter. :side:


----------



## T-C

-Blasko- said:


> That title goes to Tom Carter. :side:


What's a Tom Carter?


----------



## Blasko

T-C said:


> What's a Tom Carter?


 Tom "Reckless Youth" Carter.

Think Quack lite, but more sloppy.


----------



## Spartanlax

ROH™ said:


> Is that supposed to be a comeback on my reasons why the finsh was good? If so, it wasn't a very good one.


...no, that was supposed to be a statement about a wrestler. If you want a comeback to your reasons:

1. Agreed, but the move shoulda looked somewhat painful.
2. That's the only thing I liked, but Hero tapped so ridiculously fast.
3. Fine, he couldn't knee him in the back...does that change the fact he coulda used his extremely long legs to kick Quack in some way? He had incredibly easy access to Quack's side...give'em a good knee or two. 
4. The move wasn't over; this was it's debut! The fans didn't pop when the hold was put on, they were just there (not silent, but didn't get any louder by any means), and when it was over they had no idea what happened aside from thinking Quack won. And it doesn't matter if it looked weak? Just a few days ago you were going on about how stupid Shingo was for selling a lariat that 'obviously mised and sucked'. Also, your comparison/analogy made no sense. Of course the Liger Bomb is more credible, it's been used for over 10 years to put away people, while the The 'Chikara Special' looks lame and was used for the first time ever in this match...so...how is it credible? How is it like the Liger Bomb of submission holds? No idea where you were going with this.
5. So any clean finish involving a finisher can't be bad? Yes it can...like someone tapping ridiculously too quickly to a move that doesn't look good and isn't established in any way, shape, or form.

EDIT- I wouldn't give Reckless that title only because he doesn't nearly have as much cartoonish/annoying offense that Quack does. People selling a 170 pound's man slap as death just sucks.


----------



## T-C

Yea I know Reckless Youth, just never knew he went by Tom Carter.

And for the most part most indy guys are overrated, to a point.


----------



## Blasko

It's his name, he's 'semi' retired, so he uses his real name now-a-days.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

The 'CHIKARA Special' argument is getting almost as old as some 'Canadian Destroyer' arguments. I think it's time to agree to disagree.


----------



## ROH

Spartanlax said:


> ...no, that was supposed to be a statement about a wrestler. If you want a comeback to your reasons:
> 
> 1. Agreed, but the move shoulda looked somewhat painful.
> 2. That's the only thing I liked, but Hero tapped so ridiculously fast.
> 3. Fine, he couldn't knee him in the back...does that change the fact he coulda used his extremely long legs to kick Quack in some way? He had incredibly easy access to Quack's side...give'em a good knee or two.
> 4. The move wasn't over; this was it's debut! The fans didn't pop when the hold was put on, they were just there (not silent, but didn't get any louder by any means), and when it was over they had no idea what happened aside from thinking Quack won. And it doesn't matter if it looked weak? Just a few days ago you were going on about how stupid Shingo was for selling a lariat that 'obviously mised and sucked'. Also, your comparison/analogy made no sense. Of course the Liger Bomb is more credible, it's been used for over 10 years to put away people, while the The 'Chikara Special' looks lame and was used for the first time ever in this match...so...how is it credible? How is it like the Liger Bomb of submission holds? No idea where you were going with this.
> 5. So any clean finish involving a finisher can't be bad? Yes it can...like someone tapping ridiculously too quickly to a move that doesn't look good and isn't established in any way, shape, or form.
> 
> EDIT- I wouldn't give Reckless that title only because he doesn't nearly have as much cartoonish/annoying offense that Quack does. People selling a 170 pound's man slap as death just sucks.


Insulting Quack's palm strike's credibility is ridiculous. Like I said, it doesn't matter what the move looks like (if it looks painful), as long as it's over it's credible. I have to refer to Jushin Liger again, he toned down his flippy style and got over A STRIKE WITH HIS PALM (hardly gonna be the most painful looking move ever). He still uses the palm strike nowadays and it's still credible, because the fans believe in it - it's over. If the move is over with the live audience (like Quack's palm strike is) then it's a good move, and should be sold, full stop. If you think Quack's offence is annoying, you must hate Jushin Liger.

1. It looked painful enough to me, whatever.
2. (I actually timed it and it took 16 seconds for Hero to tap not 10 like you said) 15(+) seconds of pressure was long enough IMO.
3. Well I've watched alot o' wrestling in my time, and I've never actually seen anyone knee or use their legs to strike their way out of a submission hold. It just don't happen.
4. The Shingo thing was just me hating the actual lariat itself (the move, not what it meant in the match) and getting annoyed at someone praising it. Anyways, the move (CHIKARA special) was over, for the fans popped quite a bit when Quack put it on, they were going nuts chanting for Hero to tap. Maybe they thought it was way more painful than you described it, if the submission hold (any one Quack could have applied at the time) truly looked weak there would have been no heat behind it. The move was over as soon as Quack put it on because it looked painful to the fans. Nowadays (since Hero has tappen to it) it's well over, getting submission victories everywhere. 
5. Whatever, it's all opinions on whether the hold looked weak and whether Hero tapped to quickly. The finish perfectly fitted the match, so I'm happy with it. End of discussion from me.


----------



## Spartanlax

Insulting the credibility of Quack's palm strike isn't ridiculous, Quack using the palm strike as a move that will knock someone across the ring or KO them is ridiculous. It DOES matter what the move looks like at times. You can't possibly tell me a SLAP from a 170 pound guy (give or take a few pounds) is going to do major damage. Should I believe the Ass Punch is a legitimate finisher as well?

And no, I don't hate Liger at all, I love Liger. I hate Quack because of his annoying and cartoonish offense, and because of how overrated he is by so many people.


----------



## Blasko

170? were did you get this number?

Quack is 245. 

Edit, or 225. 

shit, i'm losing it...

OTHER EDIT- They said 225ish when he faced Claudio for the 35847523464 time at "Time will prove everything".


----------



## ROH

Spartanlax said:


> Insulting the credibility of Quack's palm strike isn't ridiculous, Quack using the palm strike as a move that will knock someone across the ring or KO them is ridiculous. It DOES matter what the move looks like at times. You can't possibly tell me a SLAP from a 170 pound guy (give or take a few pounds) is going to do major damage. Should I believe the Ass Punch is a legitimate finisher as well?
> 
> And no, I don't hate Liger at all, I love Liger. I hate Quack because of his annoying and cartoonish offense, and because of how overrated he is by so many people.


Does it really matter how much the dude weighs? I think it matters on like, how hard he hits them/how fast is hand is moving. It isn't a slap anyway, it's a palm strike. I know hitting someone with the palm of your hand on their forehead is hardly enough to KO them, but hey, wrestling is fake. Even the weakest looking move can get over, eg Liger's and Quack's palm strikes.

I don't see what you find cartoonish. If the lucha stuff annoys you then that's fine, but calling it cartoonish is a bit weird IMO. Also, for every Indy wrestler that gets praised there is ALWAYS someone on this Earth who thinks that wrestler is overrated. To each his own.


----------



## T-C

To be fair lucha is pretty much a big cartoon.


----------



## McQueen

> Even the weakest looking move can get over, eg Liger's and Quack's palm strikes.


Since when are Liger's palm strikes weak looking, I've seen quite a few really stiff palms strikes by the guy.

Cartoonish or not I find quackenbush to be entertaining and that's all that really matters, end of story.


----------



## ROH

McQueen said:


> Since when are Liger's palm strikes weak looking, I've seen quite a few really stiff palms strikes by the guy.


I've seen about 20 Liger matches, and none have looked paricularly powerful. They only make a noise when it's an actual slap, and how powerful they actually look is determined by the person taking them - Liger hits you in the head with his palm --> you bump.



McQueen said:


> Cartoonish or not I find quackenbush to be entertaining and that's all that really matters, end of story.


:agree:


----------



## Blasko

McQueen said:


> Cartoonish or not I find quackenbush to be entertaining and that's all that really matters, end of story.


 QFT.

End of story.


----------



## Katsuyori Murakami

If I could just jump in here; a palm strike from anyone is dangerous. Ask KENTA, he'll attest to how much it hurt when he got nailed by Joe. Actually, he probably won't, because he was probably knocked too loopy to remember it. The arguement of Joe being bigger isn't really relevant considering Joe didn't hit KENTA full force anyway. Besides, people never watched Pancrase? People easily get dropped by slaps/palm strikes in real life, even by small guys. Even if pro wrestling is 'fake,' it should still be subject to the same physics as reality. In reality you could get totaled from Quack's palm strike, so in pro wrestling it should be the same.


Anyway, what I'm posting to say is that holy Mother of God, I cannot believe how overrated KENTA vs Danielson is. Five stars? Five freakin' stars? I think star ratings are completely stupid and petty usually, but calling that a five star match is hilarious. The finish was nuts. That's really all it had going for it. Other than that it was just completely average through and through, mostly the two of them running through their trademark spots. Danielson vs Shiozaki was twice as good. So was Morishima vs McGuinness.

Not that Danielson vs KENTA was a bad match, because it wasn't, it was pretty good, but five star? Haha. I'd sooner call either one of the aforementioned matches 'match of the year' than Danielson vs KENTA.


----------



## ROH

Katsuyori Murakami said:


> If I could just jump in here; a palm strike from anyone is dangerous. Ask KENTA, he'll attest to how much it hurt when he got nailed by Joe. Actually, he probably won't, because he was probably knocked too loopy to remember it. The arguement of Joe being bigger isn't really relevant considering Joe didn't hit KENTA full force anyway. Besides, people never watched Pancrase? People easily get dropped by slaps/palm strikes in real life, even by small guys. Even if pro wrestling is 'fake,' it should still be subject to the same physics as reality. In reality you could get totaled from Quack's palm strike, so in pro wrestling it should be the same.
> 
> 
> Anyway, what I'm posting to say is that holy Mother of God, I cannot believe how overrated KENTA vs Danielson is. Five stars? Five freakin' stars? I think star ratings are completely stupid and petty usually, but calling that a five star match is hilarious. The finish was nuts. That's really all it had going for it. Other than that it was just completely average through and through, mostly the two of them running through their trademark spots. Danielson vs Shiozaki was twice as good. So was Morishima vs McGuinness.
> 
> Not that Danielson vs KENTA was a bad match, because it wasn't, it was pretty good, but five star? Haha. I'd sooner call either one of the aforementioned matches 'match of the year' than Danielson vs KENTA.


Are you talking about Danielson vs KENTA 3 (up in the media section)?


----------



## Katsuyori Murakami

Yup, Danielson vs KENTA III. I thought that was the only match they'd had this year... Can't really remember if their NOAH match was this year or last year. Whatever, you get the idea.


----------



## El Conquistador

_ROH Domination_ -- Chris Hero & Claudio Castagnoli vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe (ROH Tag Titles) -- ****1/2*
_ROH Fight at the Roxbury_ -- El Generico vs. Matt Sydal -- ******
_IWA-MS Point Proven_ -- Toby Klein & Necro Butcher vs. Homicide & Low Ki -- ****3/4*
_IWA-MS Point Proven_ -- Chris Hero, Cloudy, Cheech, Claudio Castagnoli vs. Ruckus, B-Boy, Sabian, Ricky Reyes -- ****1/2*
_IWA-MS Bad Blood Rising_ -- Corporal Robinson vs. Tank -- Fans Bring The Weapons (IWA-MS Deathmatch Title) -- ******


----------



## watts63

M.W. said:


> _ROH Domination_ -- Chris Hero & Claudio Castagnoli vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe (ROH Tag Titles) -- ****1/2*
> *I]ROH Fight at the Roxbury[/I] -- El Generico vs. Matt Sydal -- *****
> _IWA-MS Point Proven_ -- Toby Klein & Necro Butcher vs. Homicide & Low Ki -- ****3/4*
> _IWA-MS Point Proven_ -- Chris Hero, Cloudy, Cheech, Claudio Castagnoli vs. Ruckus, B-Boy, Sabian, Ricky Reyes -- ****1/2*
> _IWA-MS Bad Blood Rising_ -- Corporal Robinson vs. Tank -- Fans Bring The Weapons (IWA-MS Deathmatch Title) -- ******


Really? I gave it ***1/2-***3/4. When the ref counted to 3 when Sydal did the standing moonsault really hurt it for me.


----------



## El Conquistador

watts63 said:


> Really? I gave it ***1/2-***3/4. When the ref counted to 3 when Sydal did the standing moonsault really hurt it for me.


Yeah. I was borderline ***3/4 - ****'s. Despite that poor display of mechanics from the ref, that spot didn't turn away any of my interest. Like you said, a ***1/2 - ***3/4 rating is understandable though.


----------



## watts63

Two more MOTYC from PWG Based On A True Story:

Joey Ryan vs. Human Tornado ****1/2

Phoenix Star & Zorke vs. El Generico & Quicksilver ****

----------------------------------

*ROH 6/23/07*
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA III ****3/4-*****

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****3/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/03/07*
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****1/2-****3/4

*CZW Out With The Old, In With The New*
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****1/2

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe ****1/2

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/21/07*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****1/2

*ROH Respect is Earned*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal & Claudio Castagnoli ****1/2

*WWE Royal Rumble ‘07*
John Cena vs. Umaga ****1/2

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Takeshi Morishima vs. SHINGO ****1/2

*PWG Based On A True Story*
Joey Ryan vs. Human Tornado ****1/2

*PWG DDT4 Tag Team Title Tournament Night One*
Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA ****1/4-****1/2

*AJPW 2/17/07*
Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima ****1/4-****1/2

*ROH 7/16/07*
Bryan Danielson vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4-****1/2

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07*
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi ****1/4-****1/2

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer ****1/4

*Dragon Gate 4/17/07*
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid, BxB Hulk, Anthony W. Mori & Matt Sydal vs. Magnitude Kishiwada, Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi, Gamma, Cyber Kong & Jack Evans ****1/4

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
CIMA, SHINGO & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid & Masaaki Mochizuki ****1/4

*NJPW 4/13/07*
Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi ****1/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/24/07*
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Rocky Romero & Taiji Ishimori ****1/4

*PWG Guitarmageddon II: Armoryageddon*
El Generico & Quicksilver vs. Roderick Strong & Davey Richards ****1/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07*
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/4

*ROH All-Star Extravaganza III*
CIMA, Ryo Saito, Susumu Yokosuks & Dragon Kid vs. Austin Aries, Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious & Rocky Romero ****-****1/4

*WWE Vengeance '07*
Edge vs. Batista ****-****1/4

*ROH 7/16/07*
Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness II ****-****1/4

*IWA-MS Sunday Bloody Sunday*
Necro Butcher vs. Masada ****-****1/4

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Dayton*
Roderick Strong vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. M-Dogg 20 vs. Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO vs. Pelle Primeau ****-****1/4

*CHIKARA Rey de Voladores*
Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli ****-****1/4

*ROH 7/16/07*
Naomichi Marufuji, Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal, Ricky Marvin & Atsushi Aoki ****-****1/4

*ROH Battle of St. Paul*
Takeshi Morishima vs. Austin Aries ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: NYC*
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima ****

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki II ****

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07*
Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Samoa Joe vs. Homicide ****

*IWA-MS HURT 2007*
Roderick Strong vs. Low Ki ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Philly*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Chicago*
Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****

*ROH Fighting Spirit*
El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. Jay Briscoe & Erick Stevens & Then Mark Briscoe ****

*IWA-MS It's Gotta Be The Shoes*
Chuck Taylor vs. Low Ki ****

*WWE RAW 4/23/07*
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels II ****

*ROH Fight At The Roxbury*
Nigel McGuinness vs. Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Mike Quackenbush ****

*ROH Fight At The Roxbury*
Kevin Steen vs. Mark Briscoe ****

*ROH Respect is Earned*
Rocky Romero vs. Naomichi Marufuji ****

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Austin Aries vs. Rocky Romero ****

*PWG Based On A True Story*
El Generico & Quicksilver vs. Phoenix Star & Zorke ****​


----------



## Future Star

So you saw it...how is the overall? (BOATS)

EDIT: NVM i saw in Indy help thread


----------



## watts63

Future Star said:


> So you saw it...how is the overall?


Yeah I reviewed it in the indy dvd thread.

Hate to double post but...

*PWG Holy Diver Down*
Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin vs. Chris Bosh & Scott Lost ****1/4-****1/2 

Both teams are in my top 5 best tag teams in the world. Another great PWG tag team match.

*PWG Holy Diver Down*
Kevin Steen vs. PAC ****1/4

OMFG. I'm speechless.​
---------------------------------

*ROH Driven*
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA III ****3/4-*****

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****3/4

*CZW Out With The Old, In With The New*
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****3/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/03/07*
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****1/2-****3/4

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe ****1/2

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/21/07*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****1/2

*ROH Respect is Earned*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal & Claudio Castagnoli ****1/2

*WWE Royal Rumble ‘07*
John Cena vs. Umaga ****1/2

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Takeshi Morishima vs. SHINGO ****1/2

*PWG Based On A True Story*
Joey Ryan vs. Human Tornado ****1/2

*PWG DDT4 Tag Team Title Tournament Night One*
Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA ****1/4-****1/2

*AJPW 2/17/07*
Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima ****1/4-****1/2

*ROH 7/16/07*
Bryan Danielson vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4-****1/2

*PWG Holy Diver Down*
Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin vs. Chris Bosh & Scott Lost ****1/4-****1/2

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07*
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi ****1/4-****1/2

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer ****1/4

*Dragon Gate 4/17/07*
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid, BxB Hulk, Anthony W. Mori & Matt Sydal vs. Magnitude Kishiwada, Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi, Gamma, Cyber Kong & Jack Evans ****1/4

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
CIMA, SHINGO & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid & Masaaki Mochizuki ****1/4

*NJPW 4/13/07*
Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi ****1/4

*PWG Holy Diver Down*
Kevin Steen vs. PAC ****1/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/24/07*
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Rocky Romero & Taiji Ishimori ****1/4

*PWG Guitarmageddon II: Armoryageddon*
El Generico & Quicksilver vs. Roderick Strong & Davey Richards ****1/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07*
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/4

*ROH All-Star Extravaganza III*
CIMA, Ryo Saito, Susumu Yokosuks & Dragon Kid vs. Austin Aries, Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious & Rocky Romero ****-****1/4

*WWE Vengeance '07*
Edge vs. Batista ****-****1/4

*ROH 7/16/07*
Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness II ****-****1/4

*IWA-MS Sunday Bloody Sunday*
Necro Butcher vs. Masada ****-****1/4

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Dayton*
Roderick Strong vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. M-Dogg 20 vs. Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO vs. Pelle Primeau ****-****1/4

*CHIKARA Rey de Voladores*
Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli ****-****1/4

*ROH 7/16/07*
Naomichi Marufuji, Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal, Ricky Marvin & Atsushi Aoki ****-****1/4

*ROH Battle of St. Paul*
Takeshi Morishima vs. Austin Aries ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: NYC*
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima ****

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki II ****

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07*
Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Samoa Joe vs. Homicide ****

*IWA-MS HURT 2007*
Roderick Strong vs. Low Ki ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Philly*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Chicago*
Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****

*ROH Fighting Spirit*
El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. Jay Briscoe & Erick Stevens & Then Mark Briscoe ****

*IWA-MS It's Gotta Be The Shoes*
Chuck Taylor vs. Low Ki ****

*WWE RAW 4/23/07*
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels II ****

*ROH Fight At The Roxbury*
Nigel McGuinness vs. Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Mike Quackenbush ****

*ROH Fight At The Roxbury*
Kevin Steen vs. Mark Briscoe ****

*ROH Respect is Earned*
Rocky Romero vs. Naomichi Marufuji ****

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Austin Aries vs. Rocky Romero ****

*PWG Based On A True Story*
El Generico & Quicksilver vs. Phoenix Star & Zorke ****​


----------



## ROH

watts63 said:


> Kevin Steen vs. PAC [/center]


I'm gonna see that live...


----------



## peep4life

I got another one to add to the list.
PWG All Star Weekend V Night 1
Pac vs El Generico-****1/4 
Fantastic match, somewhat botched finish kind of hurt it though.


----------



## Spartanlax

^My thoughts exactly. If that finish hit, I woulda bumped it to an outstanding ****1/2


----------



## watts63

Spartanlax said:


> ^My thoughts exactly. If that finish hit, I woulda bumped it to an outstanding ****1/2


Damn I can't wait for this show to come.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Just finished watching the DG main event from Supercard of Honor II. I have to say it was easily the weakest of the triple main event.

While it was a really fun spotfest, it lacked the consistancy of the previous year's. I thought the middle portion dragged a fair bit too long and some of the spots just didn't come off as well as they could have. These things are more important when you're specifically working a spotfest, and because of that, I was honestly a bit disinterested.

That said, the final sequence was probably better than the previous year's and totally saved the match. I'd still say it's the weakest of the triple main event...but it's still a low-end MOTYC. ****


----------



## ROH

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Just finished watching the DG main event from Supercard of Honor II. I have to say it was easily the weakest of the triple main event.
> 
> While it was a really fun spotfest, it lacked the consistancy of the previous year's. I thought the middle portion dragged a fair bit too long and some of the spots just didn't come off as well as they could have. These things are more important when you're specifically working a spotfest, and because of that, I was honestly a bit disinterested.
> 
> That said, the final sequence was probably better than the previous year's and totally saved the match. I'd still say it's the weakest of the triple main event...but it's still a low-end MOTYC. ****


Wow, I think Aries/Strong has NOTHING on it (the DG 6 man). To each his own I guess.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Yes, well...no offense here, but you seem to be more spot-oriented as far as match preferences from what I've seen...

Not that there's anything WRONG with that. It would just explain why our tastes and ratings are typically pretty far off.


----------



## ROH

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Yes, well...no offense here, but you seem to be more spot-oriented as far as match preferences from what I've seen...
> 
> Not that there's anything WRONG with that. It would just explain why our tastes and ratings are typically pretty far off.


Indeed.


----------



## Word

WWE MOTYC Thread

DX Vs. Rated RKO
_New Years Revolution_
*****1/2*

John Cena Vs. Umaga
_Royal Rumble_
*****1/2*

Batista Vs. Undertaker
_Wrestlemania 23_
******

John Cena Vs. HBK
_RAW_
******

Undertaker Vs. Batista
_Backlash_
******

John Cena Vs. Edge Vs. Shawn Michaels Vs. Randy Orton
_Backlash_
*****1/2*

Edge Vs. Batista
_Vengeance_
*****1/4*

John Cena Vs. Bobby Lashley
_Great American Bash_
****3/4*​


----------



## T-C

NJPW - Minoru vs Taguchi IWGP Jr. Title Match 7/6/2007

This is really great. Minoru puts Taguchi over almost perfectly, Minoru is really excellent. Taguchi brought it too and showed that he was worthy of carrying the strap. Check this out!

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other/362250-minoru-c-vs-taguchi-iwgp-jr-title-match-7-6-2007-a.html


----------



## PulseGlazer

I have full reviews for pretty much all of these, so if you want, ask, but I thought I'd weigh in with the ROH MOTYC's so far:

*1. Danielson vs. Nigel - Driven (**** 3/4) *- probably 5* but I hate giving that before I see something on DVD.

*2. BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs - SCOH 2 (****3/4)* - It's one of the best blow offs to a long standing feud ever. Remember when Tully and Magnum tried to cripple each other? It's about as good as that. This feud was violent and insane to begin with and they took it to all new levels in this without taking away any of the storytelling and drama. If Jacobs didn't absolutely destroy his knee at the finish, it probably would have gotten the full 5. The best brawl in years.

*3. Briscoes vs. MCMG - GT, GM (**** 3/4)* - There's two absolute kill spots that probably shouldn't have been kicked out of and a touch of awkward selling by Shelley. Besides that, tag perfection.

*4. Nigel McGuinness vs. Takeshi Morishima - Fighting Spirit (**** 1/2)* - Nigel and Morishima are, to this point, friends, but, of course, the title trumps all such considerations. Nigel's been at the cusp of winning the World Title for the better part of a year and here he gets a shot where he likely can't unseat the behemoth, but there is a legitimate long shot chance of a title change. These are two heavyweights and they hit each other hard. Nigel, sick of coming up short, comes up with interesting new maneuvers and variations on the old. Dealing with Morishima's size is a constant challenge and Morishima consistently crushes Nigel beneath him. The finish of this match is hot. Knowing Nigel really probably wouldn't win the entire crowd still exploded for the near falls. Really, great stuff here.

*5. Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe - FYF Finale (**** 1/2)* -Jay and Mark Briscoe lost the tag titles due to some shoddy strategy and in typical Briscoe fashion, decide they've gone soft and need to toughen each other up. To do so they beat the living hell out of each other in the second match from the Fifth Year Festival Finale to make this part of the list. I actually lowered this a quarter star, mostly on the feel that this is an amazing match, but not quite memorable enough to be one step below perfection. That isn't to say that it isn't fantastic. Jay and Mark beat the living hell out of each other. Every sick move in each man's arsenal is nailed on each other and they don't hold back at all. This is two guys killing each other to make themselves stronger and is a violent spectacle. 

*6. Morishima vs. Joe - FYF: NYC (****1/2)* - Joe and Morishima are behemoths. Joe was preparing to leave ROH, the place where he was the monster and made his name. Morishima is coming in on Joe's territory and he and his fellow NOAH wrestlers are running roughshod over the promotion with KENTA defeating most of the roster and only suffering one loss and Marufuji successfully defending the GHC belt on a ROH show. Joe was pissed and when these two got in the ring to settle it, they just crushed each other. Joe would not and could not let the new behemoth on the block steal his thunder as he was leaving the company. He couldn't let Morishima, beast though he is, take what Joe worked so hard to build. But he could also barely hurt Morishima. Want to see Joe go all out with a man who might be bigger, stronger and even faster than he is? Here's your match. Joe shows here why he is so tough as he just guts out a big win.

*7. Briscoes vs. Doi and Shingo - FYF Liverpool - (**** 1/2)- *Wow this was close. The winner of the Nigel match was set in stone and it was the perfect culmination to a great feud. The winner of this was set in stone and it was the perfect set up to a long, dominant Briscoe reign… until they lost. That they lost is what makes the match better than the one before. The story in the ring made the dominant Briscoes beatable for this night and they had the perfect opponents to take advantage of that. From the fast pace and innovative moves, it's how the story flipped expectations on end that sets this one apart.

*8. Jay Briscoe and ( Erick Stevens)Mark Briscoe vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico - Fighting Spirit -(**** 1/2)* - This is one of the best booked matches I've ever seen. Jay hates Steen at this point for attacking Mark even though Mark had a bad concussion so he goes after him every chance he gets. Erick Stevens, Mark's fill in, gets over by looking in place with the high bar these guys set, until the guys he's feuding with, the No Remorse Corps, take him out with a powerbomb into the guardrail. From there it's Jay alone against Steen and Generico and he fights back valiantly, but has no hope. Eventually Mark emerges from the crowd and the timing leading to the hot tag is built to absolutely perfectly. Mark's timing here is great and his selling is phenomenal with every shot to the head looking like it might seriously injure him. When Steen finished Mark he truly comes off looking evil. What a great in ring story.

*9. Nigel McGuinness vs. Jimmy Rave -FYF Finale - (**** ½)* - Well, these two had major heat over respect. Rave continually tried to break Nigel's leg while Nigel tried to take Rave's head off with lariats and other high impact moves. Nigel actually broke Rave's jaw here and when breaking a bone before your opponent can break yours is the blow off to a feud, you know you have something special.

*10. CIMA, Yokosuka, and Shingo vs. Dragon Kid, Saito, and Mochizuki - SCOH II - (**** 1/2)* - There's crazy spotfests and then there's crazy spotfests. Last year's Supercard of Honor Dragon Gate Six Man was a ***** that came out of nowhere. This years wasn't as good, but it was a very different match and still excellent. The lack of the surprise factor here hurts the match a bit, as does the familiarity of the audience with the workers and what they do at this point, but the Dragon Gate guys are still basically the high point in the world when it comes to crazy spotfests.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Hm...just got Good Times, Great Memories. Haven't watched Aries vs. Romero or Mori vs. Shingo yet, but I have got through the two sell points of the DVD for me, and it's two more MOTYCs.

Roderick Strong vs. Jack Evans - ****

Not as good as their first match from FIP, but damn close. Strong brings a ton of hate and vicious offense, looking more like a bully than anyone Cole would ever call. Evans brings some fire himself, with a ton of quick and smart offense. Having just watched 2004 Evans, the difference is night and day. He's really evolved, to the point where I'd say him and Strong are two of the best wrestlers in the world today. This match is a solid example, with both guys just playing their roles so well. My girlfriend, who is only a casual fan with the benefit of hearing me talk a lot, just stared in awe and said "This is a really good match." And it is. Low end MOTYC.


RoH Tag Titles: The Briscoes (c) vs. The Murder City Machine Guns - ****1/4

I know I'm going to get nailed for that rating, so let me explain. I LOVED this match. It was a blast to watch, and really well worked. There are a ton of great things in this, not the least of which is the array of great tag offense from both teams, and the crazy finishing sequence. The problems are threefold, though.

1) It feels very exhibition-y. At times it doesn't seem as though they're fighting for a title, which is a big problem.

2) The Machine Guns couldn't seem to decide on a role. I understand they were getting cheered, but they alternated between playing faces and heels which throws me off a little.

3) I love Shelley's mannerisms to death, but using comedic spots near the hot finish of an intense match is something I've bashed Nigel for as well. It throws off the feel for me.

So yeah, probably one of my favourite matches of 2007, but in no way would I say its the best.


----------



## ROH

^^^ I hate when Shelley goes "Fuck you!" to his opponent, *gives them the middle finger* before he hits a move (ie. Enziguri). It's really un-necessary IMO.


----------



## Duke Silver

PulseGlazer said:


> I have full reviews for pretty much all of these, so if you want, ask, but I thought I'd weigh in with the ROH MOTYC's so far:
> 
> *1. Danielson vs. Nigel - Driven (**** 3/4) *- probably 5* but I hate giving that before I see something on DVD.


How does it compare to Unified?


----------



## Saint Dick

*WWE MOTYCs*
Cena vs Umaga - Royal Rumble - ****1/2
Cena vs HBK - RAW - ****1/2
Cena vs HBK vs Edge vs Orton - Backlash - ****1/2
DX vs Rated RKO - NYR - ****
Batista vs Taker - WrestleMania - ****
Batista vs Taker - Backlash - ****

Honorable mentions:
Edge vs Batista - Vengeance - ***3/4-****
Orton vs Edge - RAW - ***3/4
Cena vs Lashley - GAB - ***3/4
Benoit vs Edge - SD! - ***3/4


----------



## Jon Staley

*Chris Harris vs. James Storm at Sacrifice.*


----------



## Sephiroth

ROH said:


> ^^^ I hate when Shelley goes "Fuck you!" to his opponent, *gives them the middle finger* before he hits a move (ie. Enziguri). It's really un-necessary IMO.


i don't think it works as well for Shelley as it did for Joe when he'd yell "DIE MOTHERFUCKER!"


----------



## ROH

sephy37 said:


> i don't think it works as well for Shelley as it did for Joe when he'd yell "DIE MOTHERFUCKER!"


When Davey does it before hitting a lariat it's awesome too, cos he makes it sound intense, which kinda puts over the lariat too.

The difference is, Shelley would do it before a Quebrada or a complicated move. It works before a lariat or a Yakuza kick (a simple, powerful strike) but not before a Quebrada or complicated move, that's why it dont work for Shelley.

Also, when Shelley says it he sounds like a 12 year old saying it to one of his enemies in the playground, in school.

EDIT: Sorry for going so off topic, I haven't seen a MOTYC (from this year) in ages .


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Yeah...Shelley has great mannerisms, but he needs to learn how to turn them off.

Nigel McGuinness and Bryan Danielson are plagued by the same problem, Danielson to a lesser extent.


----------



## PulseGlazer

WORLD said:


> How does it compare to Unified?


It's better. The emotion is off the hook and they work a very different style with much more focussed psychology. They do an awesome sequence early reminiscent of Low Ki and Dragon at RRC, some fantastic back work that plays into the finish, stiff exchanges... they never slow down or stop, but they never get so its unbelievable, they're just driven by hatred and their rivalrly. It's just amazing.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Two more matches watched from GTGM, one more ****+ for the list.

RoH World Title: Takeshi Morishima (c) vs. Shingo - ****

I didn't enjoy it as much as some others did, but it was really good for what it was. They brought a lot of intensity to the plate and managed to deliver a really solid, NOAH main event style match. The build to some of the finishers was nice, as was Shingo's desperation to win down the stretch. I also loved how Mori stepped up his game as soon as he realized his title was in danger. Great stuff here, though I'd say it's only the third best of the show.

Also, Romero vs. Aries was really close. They did a lot of great work and brought the hate big time, but I just hated seeing Aries survive all of Romero's finishers and then just hit a Brainbuster and 450 out of nowhere for the win. The finish just seemed very tacked on. Still ***1/2 or so, and well worth a look. GTGM is probably one of the best purchases I've made as far as full shows go.


----------



## ROH

^ If Shingo/Mori was first, Briscoes/MCMG ws first, what was second IYO?


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Strong vs. Evans


----------



## ROH

Oh. Okay.


----------



## MrPaiMei

The double main event from last night in Boston NEEDS to be seen, I could easily go ****1/2+ on both when I get the DVD. The street fight was all out craziness, maybe the best brawl in ROH history. And Claudio-Mori...so great. Claudio felt, for the first time, like a legit top guy instead of a fun mid-carder. Crowd was SO into him and completely bought him winning. From the "We Will Rock You" clapping, to the streamers, then the greatest nearfall of all time, and a standing o post match, I'd say he's a main eventer, no doubt. I'm gonna rewatch my entire top 10 of the year over the next week, they'res some stuff I think might get moved down (DG 6-man from ROH) and some stuff getting moved up (KENTA/Taiji vs. marufuji/Ibushi) based on how "into" wrestling I was when I watched em.


----------



## Blasko

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Strong vs. Evans


 Can someone explain this to me? 

This match got ** 1/2 by many and **** by others.


----------



## watts63

-Blasko- said:


> Can someone explain this to me?
> 
> This match got ** 1/2 by many and **** by others.


This match is very mixed. I gave it ***3/4, I really didn't see the problem with that match.


----------



## GenerationNeXt

I actually enjoyed Evans and Strong I gave it around I think like *** - ***1/2. I'll have to rewatch it.


----------



## ROH

I gave it ***_***1/4. Good, but not great, both guys seemed to be off their respective games.


----------



## El Conquistador

-Blasko- said:


> Can someone explain this to me?
> 
> This match got ** 1/2 by many and **** by others.


Of course you'll have to witness it yourself and come to your own conclusion, but I felt both guys just kind of ran through the motions and phoned the match in, which is why I gave it **3/4. A real decent match that was incredibly disappointing in my view.


----------



## Thats_howIroll

How many times have you guys busted out the ***** rating this year. So far I haven't used it, but I seen tons of **** plus matches this year after watching dozens of matches recently.


----------



## ROH

^ Once for me - CIMA, Susumu and Shingo vs Saito, Kid and Mochi - ROH SOH2.


----------



## watts63

Thats_howIroll said:


> How many times have you guys busted out the ***** rating this year. So far I haven't used it, but I seen tons of **** plus matches this year after watching dozens of matches recently.



KENTA vs. Bryan Danielson III. ****3/4-*****.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

-Blasko- said:


> Can someone explain this to me?
> 
> This match got ** 1/2 by many and **** by others.


It's a different kind of match than people would expect from them.

It's much more of a slower, hate filled match than a quick paced match full of high spots. Evans is only in control very briefly, yet he always feels like he could win. Strong absolutely decimates him, but can't seem to put him away without help.

It plays well off their history and current roles, while bringing enough intensity and good wrestling for me to love.


As for ***** matches in 2007, I have yet to log one.


----------



## El Conquistador

Thats_howIroll said:


> How many times have you guys busted out the ***** rating this year. So far I haven't used it, but I seen tons of **** plus matches this year after watching dozens of matches recently.


Haven't this year. Live at the 6/23 Chicago Ridge ROH show, I gave Danielson/KENTA *****'s because of the adrenaline and emotion in the match and throughout the crowd. After rewatching it, I substantially lowered it to ****1/2.

Also, I was tempted to give MCMG vs. Briscoes from 4/28 the same ***** rating. For whatever reason, I just can't, it's missing something. So that stands at ****3/4 for me.

No ***** matches this year, although a few have came extremely close.


----------



## McQueen

Kiku Angle vs Muscle Lesnar vs John Kintaro - *****

Nah not really but it was damn entertaining. :lmao


----------



## El Conquistador

NOAH 6/03/07 -- Bison Smith vs. Mitsuharu Misawa -- GHC World Title -- *(***1/2)*

Very dull right off the bat but it got more and more interesting as it progressed. Disappointing match overall, despite both of the guys being two of my top five favorite puro wrestlers currently. Completely unrelated to the match, but damn, I'd hate to take a shoulder block from Bison.

Next up on the agenda is KENTA vs. Go Shiozaki from the same 6/3/07 show along with Tanashi vs. Nagata from NJPW earlier this year.


----------



## McQueen

M.W. said:


> NOAH 6/03/07 -- *Bison Smith* vs. Mitsuharu Misawa -- GHC World Title -- *(***1/2)*
> 
> Very dull right off the bat but it got more and more interesting as it progressed. Disappointing match overall, *despite both of the guys being two of my top five favorite puro wrestlers currently.* Completely unrelated to the match, but damn, I'd hate to take a shoulder block from Bison.
> 
> Next up on the agenda is KENTA vs. Go Shiozaki from the same 6/3/07 show along with Tanashi vs. Nagata from NJPW earlier this year.


----------



## Future Star

***1/2 is a MOTYC?


----------



## El Conquistador

McQueen said:


>


Sorry for the miserable wording I used. It was 2 A.M. and I was tired. Not like you couldn't have painted your own picture, I'm sure you understood what I meant. 



> ***1/2 is a MOTYC?


****'s or higher are what I consider MOTYC's. Don't know if you've been paying attention, but a couple of people have given Bison/Misawa ****'s. The point behind this thread is to give your perspective on each MOTYC up for discussion, is it not?

Why don't you do me a favor and critique a match yourself instead of constantly asking others and myself what a MOTYC is? Thanks.


----------



## Katsuyori Murakami

Future Star said:


> ***1/2 is a MOTYC?


It could very well be. The best match in any given year doesn't necessarily need to be four star or five star. Sometimes pro wrestling just has crappy years. I'd say that whatever the 'MOTY' is for 07, unless some amazing peice of miraculous booking occurs, it's probably not even going to be 'four star.'

People don't seem to understand that a four star match is not just a good match. A four star match is an awesome match which is absolutely perfect in every single way. A five star match is a match which is perfect in absolutely every single way and then some, to the point where it's mindblowing and an instant classic. I'd say it's a push to even say there has been one four star match this year.


----------



## SAL

I'm not sure how other people are grading matches, but my perspective is that every match starts at 3 stars and then moves up or down depending on how I feel about it. Yeah, a whole hell of a lot has to happen for a match to approach 5 stars. But that's just where I'd come from. 

Briscoes/MCMG was the last truly great match I've seen (****1/2). The ending cost it any chance for 5 stars from me, as I thought something more would happen. The finish definitely trumped all the set-up moves but it just seemed thrown on top of everything else, like "how can we get out of this match?"

I do love this thread though, and now I'm off to find Morishima/Joe and a change of pants.


----------



## ROH

IMO, a MOTYC is a match where when I look back at the year, could say it's the years MOTY and not think there is anything really much better. One that you can post here and say it's your MOTY with no-one questoning it.

If everything I gave **** or more was a MOTYC, that would be stupid, because pretty much all the matches I give ****_****1/4 I wouldn't say are _the_ MOTY at the end of the year.


----------



## -Mystery-

Katsuyori Murakami said:


> It could very well be. The best match in any given year doesn't necessarily need to be four star or five star. Sometimes pro wrestling just has crappy years. I'd say that whatever the 'MOTY' is for 07, unless some amazing peice of miraculous booking occurs, it's probably not even going to be 'four star.'
> 
> People don't seem to understand that a four star match is not just a good match. A four star match is an awesome match which is absolutely perfect in every single way. A five star match is a match which is perfect in absolutely every single way and then some, to the point where it's mindblowing and an instan t classic. *I'd say it's a push to even say there has been one four star match this year.*


What fucking rating scale are you using?


----------



## ROH Fan #1

MCMG vs. Briscoes was 4 stars to start off with. I recently watched that and had to agree with everybody that it is the best I have seen from this up till now off course.


----------



## Future Star

M.W. said:


> ****'s or higher are what I consider MOTYC's. Don't know if you've been paying attention, but a couple of people have given Bison/Misawa ****'s. The point behind this thread is to give your perspective on each MOTYC up for discussion, is it not?
> 
> Why don't you do me a favor and critique a match yourself instead of constantly asking others and myself what a MOTYC is? Thanks.


Calm down buddy. I wasnt around for the ealrier post, and didnt see it. I know what a MOTYC is , i use it as **** and up, so i dont need your help, but
thanks


----------



## PulseGlazer

Claudio vs. Morishima goes to 4 and a half * and is a MOTYC...

I've given 2 matches tenative 5* this year... Dragon vs. Nigel and The cage match from SCOH2... I'm still teetering between 4 and 3/4 and 5 for that last one.


----------



## Future Star

PulseGlazer said:


> Claudio vs. Morishima goes to 4 and a half * and is a MOTYC...
> 
> I've given 2 matches tenative 5* this year... Dragon vs. Nigel and The cage match from SCOH2... I'm still teetering between 4 and 3/4 and 5 for that last one.


have u seen Briscoes/MCMG, if so what did u give it?


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

-Mystery- said:


> What fucking rating scale are you using?


His own, obviously.


I love how if someone's opinion differs by more than a marginal degree from someone else's or a majority's, it automatically makes them an idiot.

Elitists.

It honestly gets ridiculous when stating your opinion on a match gets you flamed out the asshole because you 'obviously don't understand wrestling', meanwhile the people DOING the flaming often have a far less accurate opinion imo.

Ratings are subject to the tastes of the viewer. Every match could be a ***** match depending on what said viewer is looking for. It's supposed to be entertainment, so if someone's entertained, I don't see the problem.

Honestly, it's like you people WANT wrestling to be vanilla.


EDIT: I just want to note, this is not a personal shot at you Mystery. Just the comment was a good example of a problem I've noticed in a lot of folks around here lately.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Future Star said:


> have u seen Briscoes/MCMG, if so what did u give it?


4 and 3/4 also. 

I've seen all but the four most recent DVDs released, which I just bought... and the Japan shows. I caught the recent LI, Edison, Boston and Philly live.


----------



## Saint Dick

I gave Briscoes/MCMG the full 5. I just loved that match. Might bump it down to ****3/4 when I watch it over but on first viewing it was just a phenomenal tag team match with all four guys putting in a superb effort. Plus Sabin and Shelley are entertaining as hell.

Right now that is my MOTY with Danielson/KENTA right behind it (****3/4).


----------



## PulseGlazer

Ownage™ said:


> I gave Briscoes/MCMG the full 5. I just loved that match. Might bump it down to ****3/4 when I watch it over but on first viewing it was just a phenomenal tag team match with all four guys putting in a superb effort. Plus Sabin and Shelley are entertaining as hell.
> 
> Right now that is my MOTY with Danielson/KENTA right behind it (****3/4).


My problems with it: 

1. Shelley sells really awkwardly early on.
2. Doomsday Dropkick, Superkick, Shwein --> Clean kick out? No. Shouldn't happen.
3. Cutthroat Driver ---> Clean kick out? See above.


----------



## Katsuyori Murakami

Yeah, ooooooverkill. Wristclutch reverse death vally driver guillotine legdrop combo? God _damn_, haha. Not that it wasn't a fun match, it really was. But Jesus, that was ludicrous. They'd better hope they never wrestle each other again. If they do I'll expect pretty much every move to be a Steiner screwdriver or a 630.




-Mystery- said:


> What fucking rating scale are you using?


The 'don't mark to insanity for everything remotely decent' scale. If people rate anything this year that high (KENTA vs Danielson ****-*****?), then what's one of the better Misawa/Kawada matches? Eight and a quarter stars out of five? People just have their standards way too low. When you start giving 'good' matches a 'great' rating, when a truly great match comes along you can give it the highest rating on whatever scale you use but it will severely devalue the truly great match in comparison because it will only appear slightly higher on the scale than a match it's far better than.

But, no mind. Again I'm not a big fan of the whole star rating thing. Just calling it like I see it.


----------



## Sephiroth

the only glaring problem with Briscoes vs. MCMG besides kill moves being kicked out of was Shelley no selling Mark's chops to the head when he had Jay in a leg submission (can't remember what it was, maybe a cloverleaf).

Mark looked like a total idiot overhead chopping Shelley for like 20 seconds to no reaction by Shelley


----------



## LowKi

2007 MOTYC so far ?

Danielson vs Go Shiozaki 
Dig it !


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Katsuyori Murakami said:


> The 'don't mark to insanity for everything remotely decent' scale. If people rate anything this year that high (KENTA vs Danielson ****-*****?), then what's one of the better Misawa/Kawada matches? Eight and a quarter stars out of five? People just have their standards way too low. When you start giving 'good' matches a 'great' rating, when a truly great match comes along you can give it the highest rating on whatever scale you use but it will severely devalue the truly great match in comparison because it will only appear slightly higher on the scale than a match it's far better than.
> 
> But, no mind. Again I'm not a big fan of the whole star rating thing. Just calling it like I see it.


At the same time, I've known people who said Misawa vs. Kawada sucked.

Different strokes.


----------



## -Mystery-

Katsuyori Murakami said:


> The 'don't mark to insanity for everything remotely decent' scale. If people rate anything this year that high (KENTA vs Danielson ****-*****?), then what's one of the better Misawa/Kawada matches? Eight and a quarter stars out of five? People just have their standards way too low. When you start giving 'good' matches a 'great' rating, when a truly great match comes along you can give it the highest rating on whatever scale you use but it will severely devalue the truly great match in comparison because it will only appear slightly higher on the scale than a match it's far better than.
> 
> But, no mind. Again I'm not a big fan of the whole star rating thing. Just calling it like I see it.


Dude, just because two matches get rated 5 stars doesn't mean one can't be better than the other. I've given Joe/Punk II 5 stars and every Flair/Steamboat match from '89 5 stars but yet I still think Joe/Punk II is the better match. Just because matches get the same rating doesn't mean one can't be better than the other.

Also, you say people have low standards. Well, that works both ways, buddy. Some can easily say you have high standards which results in you rating matches lower than the majority.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Couple more from some DVD's I just got. If I put it together, both would probably be top 20.

El Generico and Kevin Steen vs. Jigsaw and Mike Quackenbush - Beautiful. Perfect formula tag wrestling, they had the crowd building and building, then once they hit the spots, they spaced them out, and nothing too big, as it was the third match. See, the thing with ROH is, many guys since DG invaded have done "big moves tags" but many times they don't have the phychology of the original SOH, that every move was bigger than the last, thus the crowd got hotter and hotter till the biggest move, and that was the finish. That happened here and it was great. Just as the crowd hit their hottest, after the now-famous Quack breakup, they hit the big move, the Piledriver-Brainbuster, and it was over. Great. ****-****1/4

Kevin Steen vs. PAC - This was absolutly spectacular. Wicked crowd, and awesome story of "arrogant prick Steen vs. the indestructable PAC". Unfortunatly, unlike the last match, I feel they did too much. Near the end, they were hitting moves, and by the last big kickout, there was hardly a huge pop. That said, I loved the match, but if they spaced the spots out and/or cut some, were looking at a top 10 match. But they didn't and I'd rank it right under the last match. ****, MAYBE ****1/4.


----------



## Blasko

TheUnholyDragon said:


> At the same time, I've known people who said Misawa vs. Kawada sucked.


 Those people should be hanged. 

:side:


----------



## S-Mac

MrPaiMei said:


> Couple more from some DVD's I just got. If I put it together, both would probably be top 20.
> 
> El Generico and Kevin Steen vs. Jigsaw and Mike Quackenbush - Beautiful. Perfect formula tag wrestling, they had the crowd building and building, then once they hit the spots, they spaced them out, and nothing too big, as it was the third match. See, the thing with ROH is, many guys since DG invaded have done "big moves tags" but many times they don't have the phychology of the original SOH, that every move was bigger than the last, thus the crowd got hotter and hotter till the biggest move, and that was the finish. That happened here and it was great. Just as the crowd hit their hottest, after the now-famous Quack breakup, they hit the big move, the Piledriver-Brainbuster, and it was over. Great. ****-****1/4
> 
> Kevin Steen vs. PAC - This was absolutly spectacular. Wicked crowd, and awesome story of "arrogant prick Steen vs. the indestructable PAC". Unfortunatly, unlike the last match, I feel they did too much. Near the end, they were hitting moves, and by the last big kickout, there was hardly a huge pop. That said, I loved the match, but if they spaced the spots out and/or cut some, were looking at a top 10 match. But they didn't and I'd rank it right under the last match. ****, MAYBE ****1/4.


Ive noticed this with Pac he seems to kick out of everything and it just doesnt seem right sometimes.


----------



## PulseGlazer

T-C said:


> Rave vs Nigel at Finale was good but it did lack a bit of emotion. It was almost as if it was just an exhibition of bumps on Jimmy's part. Also why in the hell would anyone after taking a Tower Of London on to a meatal freakin' guardrail then start headbutting his opponent. After that Tower of London, Nigel should have hit the death lariat and pinned him. Rave almost worked the match as a babyface which just seemed stupid. This might be in my top 20 so far but not near the top.


This wasn't a match in isolation, it was the blow off to a feud. In that feud Nigel was the top dog who disrespected Rave. Rave was insulted and tried to injure Nigel, owning him at every turn. The Finale match was the emotional payoff to Nigel getting beaten for so long. That's why Nigel was so dominant. Nigel was finally snapping at Rave to the point where Rave could do literally nothing to stop it.

Why the headbutts? They aren't the best choice, but Rave was basically a dead man walking at that point. He was just doing anything he could to fight back. Was it a no sell? Sure, probably. Or maybe he was concussed to crap by then and just reacting on instinct before Nigel finished him. It's not a perfect match, but it's top 10 of the year so far.


----------



## T-C

There is way too much wrong with that match for it to get some of the ratings that it is getting. As a blow off to a feud it totally lacked emotion.


----------



## PulseGlazer

T-C said:
 

> There is way too much wrong with that match for it to get some of the ratings that it is getting. As a blow off to a feud it totally lacked emotion.


I thought the emotion was great and apparently so did the crowd. It was payback Rave's payback for months of torture.

What was wrong with it that I didn't explain?


----------



## MrPaiMei

Cape Fear vs. No Remorse Corps

I've seen people give this ****+, and I don't get it. There's a long, 10 minute+ work over section on Quik, and it's all good, but once he makes that hot tag to Generico, it all falls apart. It's just move...move...kickout...move with no transitions or flow. Now, Strong bled a gusher hardway, and I believe Quik was concussed, so it's no ones fault, but still, I don't see why this got pimped hard. I'd go about ***1/4.


----------



## Katsuyori Murakami

-Blasko- said:


> Those people should be hanged.
> 
> :side:


Yup, those people are stupid and their opinions are wrong.


----------



## Penishead

Casual fans will most likely say Kawada vs Misawa sucked and doesn't deserve ***** stars because they don't understand good psychology, which was AJPW's strong point during the 90's.


----------



## T-C

PulseGlazer said:


> I thought the emotion was great and apparently so did the crowd. It was payback Rave's payback for months of torture.
> 
> What was wrong with it that I didn't explain?


There was not emotion in that match the way there should be emotion in a feud ending match. The crowd were just into it for the spots. I felt very little hate in the match, which is what is required in a feud ending match. The storytelling was pretty basic. It was about respect, so Rave kicks out a lot. It was stupid having Rave play the babyface role in the match, he actually got cheers after it. The headbutts were ridiculous. It went too long, should have ended after the Tower of London to the rail. A match with all these faults should not get a rating above 4 stars in my mind.


----------



## lizmark

Vito vs Brandon Thomaselli - CZW BOTB 7

Morishima vs Strong - ROH(dont remember the shows name)


----------



## FreshKevin

Any and all Bryan Danielson matches. Especially the El Generico vs. Danielson for PWG title. I give it a ****.


----------



## -Mystery-

Piper4Life said:


> Any and all Bryan Danielson matches. Especially the El Generico vs. Danielson for PWG title. I give it a ****.


Even his matches against Hagadorn and Pearce?


----------



## PulseGlazer

T-C said:


> There was not emotion in that match the way there should be emotion in a feud ending match. The crowd were just into it for the spots. I felt very little hate in the match, which is what is required in a feud ending match. The storytelling was pretty basic. It was about respect, so Rave kicks out a lot. It was stupid having Rave play the babyface role in the match, he actually got cheers after it. The headbutts were ridiculous. It went too long, should have ended after the Tower of London to the rail. A match with all these faults should not get a rating above 4 stars in my mind.


The feud was not about hatred, it was about respect... and who are you to say why the crowd was into it? They were into it from the openning bell, before any spots. 

The storytelling was playing off their previous encounters, with Nigel showing he was the better man finally. Rave wasn't playing face, Nigel was going over convincingly. Rave got "good job" cheers post match. That's standard after any great match in the indies from a face or a heel. Neither was a straight "heel" in the match itself. Both were trying to earn the other's respect by taking them out in the most viscious way possible. That Rave is the heel comes from the sneak attacks and earlier matches. If viewed in a bubble it's easy to see where you're getting this, but if you actually consider the story going in you're wildly off base.

The match could have ended after the tower on the rail. It didn't to sell how big the match was to Rave. This was the big one for him. He had dominated Nigel, and now Nigel was dominating him, but this was still his big chance to go over conclusively. So he didn't stay down. Of course, to end the feud that the heel dominated, the big face went over cleanrly anyway and came off looking the better for it, while Rave seemed more important and dangerous for being able to take Nigel's best.


----------



## El Conquistador

*ROH Domination: Morishima vs. Strong -- ROH World Title*

High impact match with brutal and devastating moves showcased throughout. The big boot from Roderick to Morishima at the beginning of the match was awesome, it literally looked like Roddy kicked his head off. No lack of emotion at all, I loved how the fighting spirit was used in this match, too.

The only thing I saw as a negative was a couple of Morishima's lariats looking incredibly weak. Then again, if he were to go full force on his lariats, he's capable of killing somebody.

****3/4 - *****


----------



## Modified Cravate

MOTYC- La Parkita -vs- Del Futuro @ CHIKARA's Maximum Overdraft...


----------



## McQueen

Honestly am I the only one who thought Strong/Morishima was a bit of a mismatch? I like the agression shown by Strong in the beginning of the match and the finishing sequence was pretty good but I thought the middle was bogged down by the fact Roddy's heavyweight style (ie lifting people) didn't work too well against the much larger Morishima. I know he got him up a few times near the end but it visibly took a lot out of him and for most of the match all he could do was chop at him.

Just an observation I made, I should rewatch the match tbh.


----------



## watts63

As of 8/16/07

*ROH Driven*
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA III ****3/4-*****

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****3/4

*CZW Out With The Old, In With The New*
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****3/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/03/07*
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****1/2-****3/4

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe ****1/2

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/21/07*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****1/2

*ROH Respect is Earned*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal & Claudio Castagnoli ****1/2

*WWE Royal Rumble ‘07*
John Cena vs. Umaga ****1/2

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Takeshi Morishima vs. SHINGO ****1/2

*PWG Based On A True Story*
Joey Ryan vs. Human Tornado ****1/2

*PWG DDT4 Tag Team Title Tournament Night One*
Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA ****1/4-****1/2

*AJPW 2/17/07*
Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima ****1/4-****1/2

*ROH 7/16/07*
Bryan Danielson vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4-****1/2

*PWG Holy Diver Down*
Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin vs. Chris Bosh & Scott Lost ****1/4-****1/2

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07*
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi ****1/4-****1/2

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer ****1/4

*PWG All-Star Weekend V Night Two*
Low Ki vs. Samoa Joe ****1/4

*Dragon Gate 4/17/07*
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid, BxB Hulk, Anthony W. Mori & Matt Sydal vs. Magnitude Kishiwada, Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi, Gamma, Cyber Kong & Jack Evans ****1/4

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
CIMA, SHINGO & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid & Masaaki Mochizuki ****1/4

*NJPW 4/13/07*
Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi ****1/4

*PWG Holy Diver Down*
Kevin Steen vs. PAC ****1/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/24/07*
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Rocky Romero & Taiji Ishimori ****1/4

*PWG Guitarmageddon II: Armoryageddon*
El Generico & Quicksilver vs. Roderick Strong & Davey Richards ****1/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07*
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/4

*ROH All-Star Extravaganza III*
CIMA, Ryo Saito, Susumu Yokosuks & Dragon Kid vs. Austin Aries, Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious & Rocky Romero ****-****1/4

*WWE Vengeance '07*
Edge vs. Batista ****-****1/4

*ROH 7/16/07*
Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness II ****-****1/4

*IWA-MS Sunday Bloody Sunday*
Necro Butcher vs. Masada ****-****1/4

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Dayton*
Roderick Strong vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. M-Dogg 20 vs. Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO vs. Pelle Primeau ****-****1/4

*CHIKARA Rey de Voladores*
Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli ****-****1/4

*PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One*
Low Ki vs. Davey Richards ****-****1/4

*ROH 7/16/07*
Naomichi Marufuji, Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal, Ricky Marvin & Atsushi Aoki ****-****1/4

*PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One*
El Generico vs. PAC ****-****1/4

*ROH Battle of St. Paul*
Takeshi Morishima vs. Austin Aries ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: NYC*
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima ****

*PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One*
Roderick Strong vs. Rocky Romero ****

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki II ****

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07*
Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Samoa Joe vs. Homicide ****

*IWA-MS HURT 2007*
Roderick Strong vs. Low Ki ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Philly*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen ****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Chicago*
Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****

*ROH Fighting Spirit*
El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. Jay Briscoe & Erick Stevens & Then Mark Briscoe ****

*PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One*
Kaz Hayashi vs. Alex Shelley ****

*IWA-MS It's Gotta Be The Shoes*
Chuck Taylor vs. Low Ki ****

*WWE RAW 4/23/07*
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels II ****

*ROH Fight At The Roxbury*
Nigel McGuinness vs. Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Mike Quackenbush ****

*ROH Fight At The Roxbury*
Kevin Steen vs. Mark Briscoe **** 

*FIP New Years Classic '07*
Roderick Strong & Jack Evans vs. SHINGO & Jimmy Rave ****

*PWG 70|30*
Alex Shelley vs. Rocky Romero ****

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Austin Aries vs. Rocky Romero ****

*PWG Based On A True Story*
El Generico & Quicksilver vs. Phoenix Star & Zorke ****​


----------



## VenturaPt

I'll limit myself to a top5:

1) Jacobs vs Whitmer, Steel Cage - ****3/4
2) Cena vs HBK, RAW - ****1/2
3) KENTA/Taiji Ishimori vs Naomichi Marufuji/Kota Ibushi - ****1/2 (my fun one)
4) Morishima vs Nigel II - ****
5) The Undertaker vs Batista - ****

I would also like to rank MsChif vs Amazing Kong (NWA NGN) as **** and Sara Del Rey vs Mercedez Martinez (Shimmer III) ***3/4.


----------



## PulseGlazer

McQueen said:


> Honestly am I the only one who thought Strong/Morishima was a bit of a mismatch? I like the agression shown by Strong in the beginning of the match and the finishing sequence was pretty good but I thought the middle was bogged down by the fact Roddy's heavyweight style (ie lifting people) didn't work too well against the much larger Morishima. I know he got him up a few times near the end but it visibly took a lot out of him and for most of the match all he could do was chop at him.
> 
> Just an observation I made, I should rewatch the match tbh.


I actually agree. It's not that the story was bad- Roddy was trying to strike Mori until he was weak enough to be lifted, but really, who the hell thought that would work?


----------



## peep4life

Heres a new one
PWG All Star Weekend Night 2
Joe vs. Low Ki ****1/4


----------



## El Conquistador

Yesterday, I rewatched the complete FYF series and came across a serious MOTYC. If Joe vs. Nigel from FYF: Liverpool wasn't one of the better matches Ring of Honor has produced this year, then I don't know what is.

No clear cut botches, smooth transitions, enormous amount of emotion, high impact moves, near falls, and a tremendous story. My highest rated matches this year are Briscoes/MCMG (****1/2) & Danielson/KENTA (****1/2). I'd certainly say this match is in contention, if not in the lead.

As a follow up, how come this match hasn't been mentioned frequently? Tis a shame.


----------



## McQueen

M.W. said:


> Yesterday, I rewatched the complete FYF series and came across a serious MOTYC. If Joe vs. Nigel from FYF: Liverpool wasn't one of the better matches Ring of Honor has produced this year, then I don't know what is.
> 
> No clear cut botches, smooth transitions, enormous amount of emotion, high impact moves, near falls, and a tremendous story. My highest rated matches this year are Briscoe/MCMG (****1/2) & Danielson/KENTA (****1/2). I'd certainly say this match is in contention, if not in the lead already for me.
> 
> As a follow up, how come this match hasn't been mentioned frequently? Tis a shame.


T-C and I have been campaigning that as one of the better matches of the year in any promotion, but yeah I agree that match doesn't get the love it deserves.

**** 1/2


----------



## MrPaiMei

I loved the match, I think I gave it ****1/4 which is pretty high for me, but I felt, ore than anything, actually, that Joe leaving and the crowd reaction hurt it. As the whole story was "Nigel defending pride of UK vs. Joe" but until the last few minutes the whole crowd was behind Joe. I realise they turned them and it was great, but...a finish does not a whole match make, ya know. Plus a lot of the whole matwork deal felt kinda unnecessary and tacked on.


----------



## Future Star

> Yesterday, I rewatched the complete FYF series and came across a serious MOTYC. If Joe vs. Nigel from FYF: Liverpool wasn't one of the better matches Ring of Honor has produced this year, then I don't know what is.


I gave it ****1/2, and Blasko flamed me for it :no:


----------



## PulseGlazer

Nigel McGuinness vs. Samoa Joe 3/3/07 (****1/4)

This match started with an amazing story as Nigel's new lariat based offense was too much for Joe and paid it off with Joe eventually having to just outright try and kill Nigel because he couldn't stop him any other way. Nigel got to retain heat by coming back again after that and having to be killed dead a second time before he finally lost the match.
This is a major match for Nigel and marks his full transition from his old move set, with his arm submission based offense, which Joe easily handled to his new lariat based offense, which controlled Joe until the kill move. That Nigel wrestled this whole match with a hurt groin adds bonus points, but hurts the pace.

The second part of the Nigel-Joe match almost felt tacked on and there's no real point where you feel that Joe might lose. That hurts a match like this, as a lot of the fun rested on Nigel finally getting the big win. Some false finishes, more of a struggle leading up to big moves, something like that needed to be present for this to have a true shot at being MOTY.


----------



## T-C

Many people in the crowd thought that Nigel was going to win whenever he did the rebound roll-up. I'm not into star ratings, but I thought this was definetly one of the best matches so far this year.


----------



## watts63

I guess it's time for me to watch Joe vs. McGuinness lol.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

You know, the argument about the Lariat based system working better against Joe fails when you realize Nigel beat Joe twice with his old style, once being perfectly cleanly.


----------



## ROH

I loved Roddy/Shima too. No MOTYC, but was really awesome, reminded me of a Joe/Strong match. ***3/4.


----------



## FCapo89

I really loved Joe/Nigel. Simple match that really elevated McGuiness. The rebound lariat being blocked all match, only for him to rebound into a roll-up near the end was one of my favorite false finishes in the company's history. It's number three on my MOTY list behind Jacobs/Whitmer in the Cage and Michaels/Cena 4/23 respectively.


----------



## Sephiroth

TheUnholyDragon said:


> You know, the argument about the Lariat based system working better against Joe fails when you realize Nigel beat Joe twice with his old style, once being perfectly cleanly.


maybe whenever Joe comes back, Nigel can have a rematch but under pure rules then.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Human Tornado vs. Joey Ryan - Anything Goes ****


----------



## watts63

MrPaiMei said:


> Human Tornado vs. Joey Ryan - Anything Goes ****


It's actually called Guerrilla Warfare Match if your talking their PWG match.


----------



## McQueen

watts63 said:


> It's actually called Guerrilla Warfare Match if your talking their PWG match.


It's actually still just an 'Anything Goes' match with a gimmicked name.


----------



## Spartanlax

It's actually worthless since it involves Joey Ryan and Human Tornado.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Dude, forget that and watch it, really.


----------



## watts63

Spartanlax said:


> It's actually worthless since it involves Joey Ryan and Human Tornado.


Quit being an f'n idiot man. They put on a fantastic match (****1/2). Watch the damn match before you judge it.


----------



## Spartanlax

^I was kidding. I was planning on watching the match anyway since it's wrestling, and I happen to like Tornado. What the hell put you in such a mood?


----------



## GenerationNeXt

Spartanlax said:


> ^I was kidding. I was planning on watching the match anyway since it's wrestling, and I happen to like Tornado. What the hell put you in such a mood?


Ahh it's nothin Lax, Watts is just a big PWG fan, and he probably feels like when someone says something negative about his favorite promotion he gets defensive. Just like a ROH fan would if someone told them that a match between for example MCMG Vs Briscoe Bros. sucked they'd get defensive....yeah I don't know.


----------



## watts63

Spartanlax said:


> ^I was kidding. I was planning on watching the match anyway since it's wrestling, and I happen to like Tornado. What the hell put you in such a mood?


I thought you were serious about what you said.


----------



## Blasko

We should all stop fighting amongst each other and hug!

HUG.


----------



## Spartanlax

Being serious or not doesn't really change anything, but whatever, not in the mood to go any further. And Blasko, you know I'd hug you...but Inoki's chin is in the way.


----------



## Blasko

....

Chin or lax. 

Tough choice.


----------



## GenerationNeXt

-Blasko- said:


> ....
> 
> Chin or lax.
> 
> Tough choice.


I'll hug you.....yeah....:side:


----------



## MrPaiMei

Well, were basically through the summer, and I want to post my top 11 (couldn't cut one out of this list), in no order, cause we got some CRAZY shit coming out soon sure to throw a wrench into it. G1, Detirmination League, DDT4, BOLA, Driven, ROH in Japan full shows, GBHVI, Summerslam, WrestleJAM, DBDV, TPI, so much good stuff. So, here, in no order, is my current top 10 (all are at or above ****1/4)...

BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs
CIMA, Shingo, and Susumu Yokosuka vs. Dragon Kid, Masaaki Mochizuki, and Ryo Saito
Jay Briscoe and Mark Briscoe vs. Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA
Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness
Chris Hero vs. Eddie Kingston 
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Yuji Nagata
BxB Hulk, Cyber Kong, and Shingo Takagi vs. Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito, and Susumu Yokosuka vs. Magnitude Kishiwada, Masato Yoshino, and Naruki Doi
Jay Briscoe and Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki and Ricky Marvin
Jun Akiyama and Takeshi Rikio vs. Takashi Suguira and Yoshihiro Takayama
KENTA and Taiji Ishimori vs. Kota Ibushi and Naomichi Marufuji


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Watched Quack vs. Claudio vs. Hero vs. McGuinness last night...not really in the mood to go into detail, but it was a great match which played everything up right. The history between the lot was noted and well handled and the finishing sequence was great.

Probably the best FCS I've seen. Top 3 to be sure. ****


----------



## ROH

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Watched Quack vs. Claudio vs. Hero vs. McGuinness last night...not really in the mood to go into detail, but it was a great match which played everything up right. The history between the lot was noted and well handled and the finishing sequence was great.
> 
> Probably the best FCS I've seen. Top 3 to be sure. ****


Completely agreed. The only thing I didn't really like was they showed off a bit too many Quack/Claudio exchanges (save 'em for later, y'know) for my liking, but it barely took away from the match.


----------



## KeepItFresh

It's probably been discussed in length by now, but Bryan Danielson v.s Go Shiozaki was awesome. 

My rating is ****1/2-****3/4.


----------



## Thats_howIroll

MrPaiMei said:


> Well, were basically through the summer, and I want to post my top 11 (couldn't cut one out of this list), in no order, cause we got some CRAZY shit coming out soon sure to throw a wrench into it. G1, Detirmination League, DDT4, BOLA, Driven, ROH in Japan full shows, GBHVI, Summerslam, WrestleJAM, DBDV, TPI, so much good stuff. So, here, in no order, is my current top 10 (all are at or above ****1/4)...
> 
> BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs
> CIMA, Shingo, and Susumu Yokosuka vs. Dragon Kid, Masaaki Mochizuki, and Ryo Saito
> Jay Briscoe and Mark Briscoe vs. Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin
> Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA
> Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness
> Chris Hero vs. Eddie Kingston
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Yuji Nagata
> BxB Hulk, Cyber Kong, and Shingo Takagi vs. Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito, and Susumu Yokosuka vs. Magnitude Kishiwada, Masato Yoshino, and Naruki Doi
> Jay Briscoe and Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki and Ricky Marvin
> Jun Akiyama and Takeshi Rikio vs. Takashi Suguira and Yoshihiro Takayama
> KENTA and Taiji Ishimori vs. Kota Ibushi and Naomichi Marufuji


Good list, my top 5 matches this year would have to be (no order)

ROH-KENTA vs Bryan Danielson
NOAH-KENTA & Ishimori vs Ibushi & Marufuji
ROH-MCMG vs The Briscoes
NOAH-Akiyama & Rikio vs Suguira & Takayama
AJPW-Kondo vs Nakajima


----------



## VenturaPt

KENTA vs Bryan Danielson III was a HUGE let down for me. Not even sure if it's a **** match. Maybe I was overhyped, so will see the match again and then post my full thoughts...


----------



## Future Star

VenturaPt said:


> KENTA vs Bryan Danielson III was a HUGE let down for me. Not even sure if it's a **** match. Maybe I was overhyped, so will see the match again and then post my full thoughts...


 Really? I have this borderline at ****3/4 to *****


----------



## -GP-

VenturaPt said:


> KENTA vs Bryan Danielson III was a HUGE let down for me. Not even sure if it's a **** match. Maybe I was overhyped, so will see the match again and then post my full thoughts...


I personally thought the thing was a work of art...
Matter of taste i guess


----------



## gusbarba

ROH - KENTA vs Bryan Danielson
NOAH - KENTA & Ishimori vs Ibushi & Marufuji
ROH - MCMG vs The Briscoes
ROH - Marufuji vs Castrognelli


----------



## ROH

KENTA/Dragon also let me down. I'll have to see it on DVD with the ROH commentary etc, but what I saw I didn't think was anywhere close to *****. Their GBHVN2 match was so much better.

I still have it at a ****1/2, could go up or down though when I see the DVD.



gusbarba said:


> ROH - Marufuji vs Castrognelli


What the hell's this?


----------



## Sephiroth

ROH said:


> What the hell's this?


that didn't even happen...


----------



## T-C

Cena vs Orton (SummerSlam)

Cena is the man right now, and Orton has stepped up big in the last few months. They had a great match, that has to be one of the best of the year. Orton's headlocks looked so great, and looked like he was trying to strangle Cena, playing off how Orton had been working the head and neck throughout the feud. Orton's look and demeanour throughout the whole match made him look a legit threat to the "unstoppable" Cena, and made him look like the "career killer" he claims to be. I also liked how Orton was cutting the Cena comebacks off pretty easily in the early going, but as the matc hwent on, he was finding it much more difficult to contain Cena's fire. Cena was his usual good-self, and of course his comeback was great, when he dodged the kick to the head, it was a great moment. The finish was great as it showed that Orton made a mistake, and still has a bit to go before he can be considered the man, plus it sets up a rematch nicely.

All in all, great match, that made both men look great. Cena's run continues, how he gets the heat he gets is unbelievable to me now and totally undeserved.


----------



## Role Model

The ROH commentary will only bring KENTA/Dragon down for me, I hope the match has no commentary on the DVD.


----------



## Spartanlax

> All in all, great match, that made both men look great. Cena's run continues, how he gets the heat he gets is unbelievable to me now and *totally undeserved*.


Holding the belt for nearly 2 years straight (since WM21 with very, very few breaks), killing the entire RAW roster (who the fuck is credible aside from Triple H?), extremely childish/cheesy promos that have no entertainment value and are usually done at the expense of other wrestlers (ex. Cena on Carlito's Cabana the second time), and really only being 'pretty good' in the ring. I wouldn't call it undeserved at all. Now, a good amount of that stuff is bookings fault, but the boos towards him should be taken as boos towards the booking of him.

ALthough yeah, that match was pretty damn good, and I'm so happy Orton didn't screw anything up, because this year he's been building his own botch-a-mania video whether it be promos or matches. Not sure how he was so great in 2004 yet such shit this year (up until last night's match). Wouldn't call it a MOTYC, but I saw it live and was too busy cheering/booing, so I need to see it again on DVD.


----------



## T-C

I doubt anybody else on the roster could have had the run that Cena has had with the belt for the last 11 months or so. Every title program he has had he has not only had good matches, but elevated the person that he was facing in doing so.

He gets crappy, over-scripted promos to deliver every night on Raw, but when it comes to PPV there is no-one better.


----------



## Future Star

Role Model said:


> The ROH commentary will only bring KENTA/Dragon down for me, I hope the match has no commentary on the DVD.


 Why wouldnt it have commentary?


----------



## Role Model

Future Star said:


> Why wouldnt it have commentary?


Loads of big matches in the past haven't had commentary, good enough reason?


----------



## Future Star

Role Model said:


> Loads of big matches in the past haven't had commentary, good enough reason?


The only ones i cant think of are the matches in the ROH/CZW feud...what else?

Anyway i do agree. The match was great without commentary, and i think that it will bring down the match


----------



## Role Model

Joe/Kobashi didn't have commentary I don't think.


----------



## Future Star

No it did not, but that was a one time thing. Kenta/Dragon was the third, i highly doubt it wont have commentary


----------



## Role Model

I can dream. I wish you had the option of having commentary on or off on the DVD, I'd usually always have it off...


----------



## -Mystery-

KENTA/Danielson might not have commentary since it'll be a DVD extra in the future.


----------



## Future Star

Role Model said:


> I can dream. I wish you had the option of having commentary on or off on the DVD, I'd usually always have it off...


Yeah, PWG has it, but because the commentators suck


----------



## Blasko

Future Star said:


> Yeah, PWG has it, but because the commentators suck


 Now that's a lie.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Spartanlax said:


> Holding the belt for nearly 2 years straight (since WM21 with very, very few breaks), killing the entire RAW roster (who the fuck is credible aside from Triple H?), extremely childish/cheesy promos that have no entertainment value and are usually done at the expense of other wrestlers (ex. Cena on Carlito's Cabana the second time), and really only being 'pretty good' in the ring. I wouldn't call it undeserved at all. Now, a good amount of that stuff is bookings fault, but the boos towards him should be taken as boos towards the booking of him.


'Winning cleanly' and 'killing the roster' are different things. Cena does more in the way of the former than the latter. 

And honestly, Steve Austin was the same way and he's considered one of the best ever. Nevermind Hulk Hogan!

The biggest problem isn't Cena destroying the roster. It's WWE's seeming impossibility to elevate anyone on the undercard to a level where they can face him. 

And after all the good-great matches Cena's had in the last year, I think he's past the point of being considered 'pretty good' Honestly, everyone complains about him while he's having consistant **** PPV matches, meanwhile they're pimping guys like Kennedy who have yet to get one single **** match. Cena's been outperforming everyone this year, even guys who I typically prefer (Punk for example) and guys who are pimped as being better (Kennedy, Burke)

Cena is awesome. That is all.


----------



## Future Star

-Blasko- said:


> Now that's a lie.


----------



## Sephiroth

Role Model said:


> Joe/Kobashi didn't have commentary I don't think.


neither did the last 5-10 minutes of the Dragon Gate 6 man nor did the ROH/CZW brawls and i believe COD, and the brawl after Joe/Lethal vs. Ki/Cide from Punk: TFC. those are all that i can think of.


----------



## KingKicks

sephy37 said:


> neither did the last 5-10 minutes of the Dragon Gate 6 man nor did the ROH/CZW brawls and i believe COD, and the brawl after Joe/Lethal vs. Ki/Cide from Punk: TFC. those are all that i can think of.


The last 20 minutes of Joe vs. Punk II i think as well.


----------



## Sephiroth

Benjo™ said:


> The last 20 minutes of Joe vs. Punk II i think as well.


that .gif in your sig is the greatest moment of my life (so far)


----------



## Cradle Shock

Punk vs. Burke Judgement day


O and Lethal and Dutt vs. XXX vs. MCMG's at Hard Justice. I know I have a weird taste.

Please don't double post next time.


----------



## Blasko

Future Star said:


>


 http://excalcomments1.ytmnd.com/

How is that bad?


----------



## -GP-

Considering Orton-Cena:

It's so funny, going on forums and seeing a bunch of "smartened-up" fans yelling and complaining about Cena retaining once again, saying they'll never watch WWE again, because they think it's cool or something to hate Cena 
It was said above, and i'll say it again, Cena may not have Bryan Danielson-like skills, but when it comes to telling a story in the ring, he does a mighty good job. 
His PPVs this year have been fantastic, from the Last Man Standing with Umaga, to the Four-Way with HBK, Edge and Orton, to Cena-HBK (on Raw) to SummerSlam's Cena-Orton.

Summerslam's match was terrific live, because it had INSANE amounts of heat. Hearing people go ballistic over a headlock is a sight to behold. 
I thought they did a really good job, put the match over (despite Vinny Mac getting all the TV time on Raw), told a solid story in the ring and build a fluid finish. Nothing fancy, nothing spectacular, but a solid match.
Watching it live i was on the edge of my seat, because of how well it turned out to be. Crowd was dead all night and seeing them waken up for this was great.
The only way this would've been better without being a totaly different match, would be if Orton kicked out of the FU and hit an RKO for the pin. Not for the sake of the result, but because the roof would blow off the damn place if he did...

Not sure if it's ****. I mean Joe-Kobashi wasn't *****, but got it because of the terrific crowd (imo), so i guess we could say this is a ****-match combined with it's crowd


----------



## Mr Joe Perfect

My MOTY so far is the Briscoes vs MCMG


----------



## Saint Dick

WWE MOTYCs:

1. Cena vs HBK - Raw (****1/2)
2. Cena vs HBK vs Edge vs Orton - Backlash (****1/4-1/2)
3. Cena vs Umaga - LMS (****1/4)
4. Batista vs Taker - WM (****)
5. Cena vs Orton - SummerSlam (****)

Cena's having one hell of a year.


----------



## MrPaiMei

So summer's over, and I know if no one else does it I will be running an official WF Other Wrestling forum awards. So so far, what's everyone seeing as companies MOTY's?

WWE: John Cena vs. Umaga
TNA: Chris Harris vs. James Storm
ROH: Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA
PWG: El Generico vs. PAC
IWA:MS: Homicide and Low Ki vs. Necro Butcher and Toby Klein
CHIKARA: Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli
CZW: Chris Hero vs. Eddie Kingston
NOAH: KENTA and Taiji Ishimori vs. Kota Ibushi and Naomichi Marufuji
NJPW: Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Yuji Nagata
AJPW: Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima
Dragon Gate: BxB Hulk, Cyber Kong, and Shingo Takagi vs. Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito, and Susumu Yokosuka vs. Magnitude Kishiwada, Masato Yoshino, and Naruki Doi


----------



## ROH

^ From what I've seen

CHIKARA: Quack vs Hero - Aniversario?
ROH: DG 6 man - SCOH2
Dragon Gate: 3 way trios - Infinity 65
AJPW: Kondo/Nakajima (Duh)
NOAH: KENTA/Ishi vs Kota/Fuji - 7/15.


----------



## Mr. Bojangles

Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima. 

Everything that a match should be.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

MrPaiMei said:


> So summer's over, and I know if no one else does it I will be running an official WF Other Wrestling forum awards. So so far, what's everyone seeing as companies MOTY's?
> 
> WWE: John Cena vs. Umaga
> TNA: Chris Harris vs. James Storm
> ROH: Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA
> PWG: El Generico vs. PAC
> IWA:MS: Homicide and Low Ki vs. Necro Butcher and Toby Klein
> CHIKARA: Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli
> CZW: Chris Hero vs. Eddie Kingston
> NOAH: KENTA and Taiji Ishimori vs. Kota Ibushi and Naomichi Marufuji
> NJPW: Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Yuji Nagata
> AJPW: Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima
> Dragon Gate: BxB Hulk, Cyber Kong, and Shingo Takagi vs. Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito, and Susumu Yokosuka vs. Magnitude Kishiwada, Masato Yoshino, and Naruki Doi


WWE: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels at Mania
TNA: Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe (though I haven't seen Harris vs. Storm...it was only upped in two parts, and that irritates me to no end)
RoH: Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer in the cage
CHIKARA: Hero vs. Quackenbush
NJPW: Tanahashi vs. Nagata

Any others, I'm painfully undereducated on this year. Need to watch more from my backlog, I think.


----------



## KingKicks

WWE: John Cena vs. Umaga - Last man standing
TNA: Chris Harris vs. James Storm - Texas Deathmatch
ROH: MCMG vs. Briscoes
Dragon Gate: 3 way trios - Infinity 65
AJPW: Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima
NOAH: KENTA and Tajiri Ishimori vs. Kota Ibushi and Naomichi Marufuji
CZW: Chris Hero vs. Eddie Kingston

Number 1 MOTYC: MCMG vs. Jay and Mark Briscoe


----------



## BioPW

NOAH.07.15.07 - KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi.


----------



## TKS

Chuck Taylor vs. Nate Webb!!


----------



## El Conquistador

Rewatched Nigel vs. Morishima from ROH Fighting Spirit last night before dazing off and eventually falling asleep. It's completely befundling to see people give it **** + stars, it just wasn't inspiring or impressive at all. Both of them were hesitant, neither wanted to give direction, and it looked like they just ran through the motions. Finish aside, the match sucked.

Currently, I have it at high ***1/4 range, close to ***1/2.


----------



## -GP-

WWE: John Cena vs. Umaga
TNA: Chris Harris vs. James Storm
ROH: Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA III
CHIKARA: Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli
NOAH: KENTA and Taiji Ishimori vs. Kota Ibushi and Naomichi Marufuji

Got more to watch...


----------



## PulseGlazer

WWE - HBK - Cena at Mania
ROH - Danielson vs. Nigel
TNA - Christian vs. Joe
Chikara - Hero vs. Claudio
NOAH - KENTA and Taiji Ishimori vs. Kota Ibushi and Naomichi Marufuji
NJPW- Tahanashi vs. Nagata


----------



## Sephiroth

currently:
Raw: HBK vs. Cena
ECW: Punk vs. Burke 2/3 Falls
Smackdown: any MVP vs. Matt Hardy
Overall WWE: John Cena vs. Umaga
TNA: Chris Harris vs. James Storm 
ROH: Motor City Machine Guns vs. The Briscoes
ROH PPV: Briscoes vs. Claudio Castagnoli & Matt Sydal
CZW: Chris Hero vs. Eddie Kingston
IWA: MS: Roderick Strong vs. Low Ki
PWG: Joe vs. Low Ki
Chikara: Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli
FIP: N/A
SHIMMER: ???
NOAH: KENTA/Ishimori vs. Marufuji/Ibushi
Dragon Gate: ???
NJPW: NA
AJPW: NA

i'm drawing blanks for DG and SHIMMER


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

M.W. said:


> Rewatched Nigel vs. Morishima from ROH Fighting Spirit last night before dazing off and eventually falling asleep. It's completely befundling to see people give it **** + stars, it just wasn't inspiring or impressive at all. Both of them were hesitant, neither wanted to give direction, and it looked like they just ran through the motions. Finish aside, the match sucked.
> 
> Currently, I have it at high ***1/4 range, close to ***1/2.


Yes, because ***1/4 - ***1/2 is sucking. You're honestly not all too fsr from a **** rating yourself and yet you're saying it doesn't even deserve to be considered for one. Half a star is NOT an immense difference...


How did this thread end up four pages back anyway? Somebody pin it already...


----------



## watts63

*ROH Driven*
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA III ****3/4-*****

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****3/4

*CZW Out With The Old, In With The New*
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****3/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/03/07*
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****1/2-****3/4

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale*
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe ****1/2

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/21/07*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****1/2

*ROH Respect is Earned*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal & Claudio Castagnoli ****1/2

*WWE Royal Rumble ‘07*
John Cena vs. Umaga ****1/2

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Takeshi Morishima vs. SHINGO ****1/2

*PWG Based On A True Story*
Joey Ryan vs. Human Tornado ****1/2

PWG DDT4 Tag Team Title Tournament Night One
Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA ****1/4-****1/2

AJPW 2/17/07
Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima ****1/4-****1/2

ROH Live in Toyko
Bryan Danielson vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4-****1/2

PWG Holy Diver Down
Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin vs. Chris Bosh & Scott Lost ****1/4-****1/2

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Finale
Nigel McGuinness vs. Jimmy Rave ****1/4-****1/2

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi ****1/4-****1/2

ROH Supercard of Honor II
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer ****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night Two
Low Ki vs. Samoa Joe ****1/4

Dragon Gate 4/17/07
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid, BxB Hulk, Anthony W. Mori & Matt Sydal vs. Magnitude Kishiwada, Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi, Gamma, Cyber Kong & Jack Evans ****1/4

ROH Supercard of Honor II
CIMA, SHINGO & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid & Masaaki Mochizuki ****1/4

NJPW 4/13/07
Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 8/19/07
Takeshi Morishima vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4

PWG Holy Diver Down
Kevin Steen vs. PAC ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/24/07
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Rocky Romero & Taiji Ishimori ****1/4

PWG Guitarmageddon II: Armoryageddon
El Generico & Quicksilver vs. Roderick Strong & Davey Richards ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/4

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Finale
SHINGO & Naruki Doi vs. Roderick Strong & Davey Richards ****1/4

ROH All-Star Extravaganza III
CIMA, Ryo Saito, Susumu Yokosuks & Dragon Kid vs. Austin Aries, Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious & Rocky Romero ****-****1/4

WWE Vengeance '07
Edge vs. Batista ****-****1/4

ROH Live in Toyko
Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness II ****-****1/4

IWA-MS Sunday Bloody Sunday
Necro Butcher vs. Masada ****-****1/4

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Dayton
Roderick Strong vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. M-Dogg 20 vs. Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO vs. Pelle Primeau ****-****1/4

CHIKARA Rey de Voladores
Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli ****-****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
Low Ki vs. Davey Richards ****-****1/4

ROH Fighting Spirit
El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. Jay Briscoe & Erick Stevens & Then Mark Briscoe ****-****1/4

ROH Live in Toyko
Naomichi Marufuji, Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal, Ricky Marvin & Atsushi Aoki ****-****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
El Generico vs. PAC ****-****1/4

ROH Battle of St. Paul
Takeshi Morishima vs. Austin Aries ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: NYC
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima ****

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
Roderick Strong vs. Rocky Romero ****

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki II ****

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07
Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale
Samoa Joe vs. Homicide ****

IWA-MS HURT 2007
Roderick Strong vs. Low Ki ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Philly
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Chicago
Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
Kaz Hayashi vs. Alex Shelley ****

IWA-MS It's Gotta Be The Shoes
Chuck Taylor vs. Low Ki ****

WWE RAW 4/23/07
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels II ****

ROH Fight At The Roxbury
Nigel McGuinness vs. Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Mike Quackenbush ****

ROH Fight At The Roxbury
Kevin Steen vs. Mark Briscoe **** 

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Liverpool
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO & Naruki Doi ****

FIP New Years Classic '07
Roderick Strong & Jack Evans vs. SHINGO & Jimmy Rave ****

PWG 70|30
Alex Shelley vs. Rocky Romero ****

ROH Good Times, Great Memories
Austin Aries vs. Rocky Romero ****​


----------



## GenerationNeXt

*ROH Good Times Great Memories*
Shingo Vs Morishima - ****/****1/4

*ROH Good Times Great Memories*
Motor City Machine Guns Vs Briscoe Bros. - *****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Philly*
Steenerico Vs Briscoe Bros. - ****1/2

*ROH Domination*
Steenerico Vs QuackenJig - ****1/2

*ROH Good Times Great Memories*
Austin Aries Vs Rocky Romero - ****

*ROH All Star Extravaganza 3* 
*Steel Cage Match* BJ Whitmer Vs Jimmy Jacobs ****1/2

*CZW Dishonorable Conduct*
Drake Younger Vs Brain Damage - ****

I'll add more


----------



## VenturaPt

a suggestion:

MsChif vs Amazing Kong, SHIMMER Vol.9 - ***3/4-****


I also thing that a LOT of that indy spotty stuff is waaaaaay to overrated. And the tag match in NOAH wasn't superior to Misawa-Taue, imo. 
Also, my favorite match this year in ROH was Jacobs-Whitmer, every move had importance and meaning, not to mention the great feud. Jacobs is SO the man. 
In TNA, Harris vs Storm was by far the best match of the company this year. 
About WWE...

Cena-Orton, SS ****
HBK-Cena, RAW ****
Cena-Umaga ****1/2
Tista-Taker, Wm ***3/4-****


My 0.02$...


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

GenerationNeXt6 said:


> *ROH Good Times Great Memories*
> Austin Aries Vs Rocky Romero - ****


I really, really liked this one up until Aries basically survived all Romero's finishers then just no-sold and hit his finishing combo for the win. Totally turned the match from a coming out performance into a burial for Romero.


----------



## watts63

*ROH Driven
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA III ****3/4-*****

ROH Good Times, Great Memories
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****3/4

CZW Out With The Old, In With The New
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****3/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/03/07
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****1/2-****3/4

ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe ****1/2

Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/21/07
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****1/2

ROH Respect is Earned
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal & Claudio Castagnoli ****1/2

WWE Royal Rumble '07
John Cena vs. Umaga ****1/2

ROH Good Times, Great Memories
Takeshi Morishima vs. SHINGO ****1/2

PWG Based On A True Story
Joey Ryan vs. Human Tornado ****1/2

PWG DDT4 Tag Team Title Tournament Night One
Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA ****1/4-****1/2

AJPW 2/17/07
Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima ****1/4-****1/2

ROH Live in Toyko
Bryan Danielson vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4-****1/2

PWG Holy Diver Down
Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin vs. Chris Bosh & Scott Lost ****1/4-****1/2

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Finale
Nigel McGuinness vs. Jimmy Rave ****1/4-****1/2

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi ****1/4-****1/2

ROH Supercard of Honor II
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer ****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night Two
Low Ki vs. Samoa Joe ****1/4

AJPW/NJPW Supershow 1/4/07
Minoru Suzuki vs. Yuji Nagata ****1/4

Dragon Gate 4/17/07
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid, BxB Hulk, Anthony W. Mori & Matt Sydal vs. Magnitude Kishiwada, Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi, Gamma, Cyber Kong & Jack Evans ****1/4

ROH Supercard of Honor II
CIMA, SHINGO & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid & Masaaki Mochizuki ****1/4

NJPW 4/13/07
Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 8/19/07
Takeshi Morishima vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4

PWG Holy Diver Down
Kevin Steen vs. PAC ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/24/07
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Rocky Romero & Taiji Ishimori ****1/4

PWG Guitarmageddon II: Armoryageddon
El Generico & Quicksilver vs. Roderick Strong & Davey Richards ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/4

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Finale
SHINGO & Naruki Doi vs. Roderick Strong & Davey Richards ****1/4

ROH All-Star Extravaganza III
CIMA, Ryo Saito, Susumu Yokosuks & Dragon Kid vs. Austin Aries, Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious & Rocky Romero ****-****1/4

WWE Vengeance '07
Edge vs. Batista ****-****1/4

ROH Live in Toyko
Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness II ****-****1/4

IWA-MS Sunday Bloody Sunday
Necro Butcher vs. Masada ****-****1/4

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Dayton
Roderick Strong vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. M-Dogg 20 vs. Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO vs. Pelle Primeau ****-****1/4

CHIKARA Rey de Voladores
Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli ****-****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
Low Ki vs. Davey Richards ****-****1/4

ROH Fighting Spirit
El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. Jay Briscoe & Erick Stevens & Then Mark Briscoe ****-****1/4

ROH Live in Toyko
Naomichi Marufuji, Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal, Ricky Marvin & Atsushi Aoki ****-****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
El Generico vs. PAC ****-****1/4

ROH Battle of St. Paul
Takeshi Morishima vs. Austin Aries ****

PWG Battle of Los Angeles '07 Night One
Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Dragon Kid & Sumusu Yokosuka ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: NYC
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima ****

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
Roderick Strong vs. Rocky Romero ****

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki II ****

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07
Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale
Samoa Joe vs. Homicide ****

IWA-MS HURT 2007
Roderick Strong vs. Low Ki ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Philly
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Chicago
Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
Kaz Hayashi vs. Alex Shelley ****

IWA-MS It's Gotta Be The Shoes
Chuck Taylor vs. Low Ki ****

WWE RAW 4/23/07
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels II ****

ROH Fight At The Roxbury
Nigel McGuinness vs. Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Mike Quackenbush ****

ROH Fight At The Roxbury
Kevin Steen vs. Mark Briscoe **** 

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Liverpool
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO & Naruki Doi ****

Dragon Gate Wrestle JAM 2 ???
Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Jimmy Rave & Muscle Gang vs. CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Dragon Kid & Matt Sydal vs. SHINGO, Cyber Kong, El Generico & Jack Evans ****

FIP New Years Classic '07
Roderick Strong & Jack Evans vs. SHINGO & Jimmy Rave ****

TNA Sacrifice '07
Chris Harris vs. James Storm ****

PWG 70|30
Alex Shelley vs. Rocky Romero ****

ROH Good Times, Great Memories
Austin Aries vs. Rocky Romero *****​


----------



## Kapone89

Nice list you got there, Watts


----------



## RVDECCW420

My current MOTY

TNA:No Surrender
Lethal vs. Angle: ****3/4


----------



## crane333_3

Figured I'd post this, it's all the matches I've rated 4 stars and above. I need to go back and re watch a bunch of them when I get some free time.

1. ROH Supercard of Honor II - Dragon Kid, Masaaki Mochizuki & Ryo Saito vs. CIMA, SHINGO & Susumu Yokosuka (****3/4)
2. ROH Fifth Year Festival Finale - Mark Briscoe vs. Jay Briscoe (****!/2)
3. ROH Good Times, Great Memories - Mark & Jay Briscoe vs. Alex Shelly & Chris Sabin (****1/2)
4. WWE Royal Rumble - John Cena vs. Umaga (****1/2)
5. ROH Respet is Earned - Takeshi Morishima & Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA & Nigel McGuinness (****1/2)
6. ROH All Star Extravaganza III - Claudio, Aries, Romero & Delirious vs. Dragon Kid, CIMA, Ryo Saito, & Susumu Yokosuka (****1/2)
7. ROH Dedicated - Samoa Joe vs. Nigel McGuinness (****1/2)
8. BJPW 07.08.07 - Takashi Sasaki vs. Ryuji Ito (****1/4)
9. ROH Good Times, Great Memories - Takeshi Morishima vs. SHINGO (****1/4)
10. ROH Fifth Year Festival NYC - Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima (****1/4)
11. ROH Supercard of Honor II - Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer (Cage) (****1/4)
12. BJW Deathmatch Wars #116 - Takashi Sasaki vs. Yuko Miyamoto (****1/4)
13. ROH Fifth Year Festival Finale - Nigel McGuinness vs. Jimmy Rave (Fight Without Honor) (****)
14. BJPW 05.28.07- Ryuji Ito vs. Jaki Numazawa (****)
15. ROH Fifth Year Festival Dayton - Davey Richards vs. Samoa Joe (****)
16. ROH Battle of the Icons - Austin Aries, Roderick Strong, & Jack Evans vs. Delirious, Davey Richards, & SHINGO (****)
17. ROH Fifth Year Festival Philly - Kevin Steen/El Generico vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe (****)
18. WWE Royal Rumble Match (****)
19. ROH Fifth Year Festival Chicago - Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal & Christopher Daniels (****)


----------



## ROH

crane333_3 said:


> 7. ROH Dedicated - Samoa Joe vs. Nigel McGuinness (****1/2)


Whaaa???


----------



## crane333_3

That's one of the main ones I want to go and re watch. I was so into Joe around the time I saw that so I have a feeling I overrated it.


----------



## ROH

^ kk.

CHIKARA MOTYC: Invaders Weekend Night 2: *Claudio Castagnoli vs PAC*

Well you know what to expect here, and yes, it was downright awesome. My only gripe was they should have done 1 - 2 more nearfalls, but kudos for not going overkill (like Claudio/Ricochet @ KOTN3). PAC needs to return to CHIKARA, too.

Rating: *****_****1/4*


----------



## StraightEdge

ROH said:


> Whaaa???


I Think he meant the Nigel Vs Joe Match from the FYF Liverpool Show....?


----------



## ROH

(Thanks MrPaiMei!)

PWG All Star Weekend V: Night 2: *PAC vs El Generico*

The start and middle portions were a bit too slow. They could have cut off 2 mins of the total match time, but kept everything that happened in - basically do it all faster - and it would have been better. Still a really, really good match, with one of the best finishing sequences I've seen all year.

*Rating*: ****1/4_****1/2.


----------



## Sephiroth

ROH Presents: Man Up*Tag Team Title Ladder War: Jay & Mark Briscoe (c) vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen*

*Rating*: *****

Read my live report for why i believe it's the full 5.

edit: also after seeing that match, i can say that KENTA vs. Dragon III and Briscoes vs. MCMG aren't *****.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Sephiroth said:


> ROH Presents: Man Up*Tag Team Title Ladder War: Jay & Mark Briscoe (c) vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen*
> 
> *Rating*: *****
> 
> Read my live report for why i believe it's the full 5.
> 
> edit: also after seeing that match, i can say that KENTA vs. Dragon III and Briscoes vs. MCMG aren't *****.


After every Chicago show it seems a match that's **** 1/2ish gets the full 5 from Chi fans. It's really getting annoying.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Ya, fuck those Chicago fans and that 1/2* difference of opinion.


----------



## ROH

MrPaiMei said:


> Ya, fuck those Chicago fans and that 1/2* difference of opinion.


He wasn't saying that. He was complaining about the Chiacgo fans always overhyping stuff from Live Reports. Which is perfectly true, IMO.

Just re-watched *PAC vs Claudio*, and it was _better_ than before! Kinda reminded me of Kel Steenerico vs QuackenSaw from ROH Domination; perfect formula with workover periods etc, then (only a few) QUALITY nearfalls without going overkill. The finish was at the perfect moment - PAC saw he had Claudio on the edge, went for the big finish but Claudio proved he was just too much for PAC, catching him and hitting the Ricola for the win.

Rating: *A Solid ****1/2*.


----------



## -Mystery-

ROH said:


> He wasn't saying that. He was complaining about the Chiacgo fans always overhyping stuff from Live Reports. Which is perfectly true, IMO.
> 
> Just re-watched *PAC vs Claudio*, and it was _better_ than before! Kinda reminded me of Kel Steenerico vs QuackenSaw from ROH Domination; perfect formula with workover periods etc, then (only a few) QUALITY nearfalls without going overkill. The finish was at the perfect moment - PAC saw he had Claudio on the edge, went for the big finish but Claudio proved he was just too much for PAC, catching him and hitting the Ricola for the win.
> 
> Rating: *A Solid ****1/2*.


All fans overhype shit. Not just Chicago fans...


----------



## .EMO

Marafugi vs. Generico. Definately


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

In all honesty, Chicago RoH fans don't wank over the product as much as some on the message boards. Also, I find most matches come off better live than on tape. The flaws don't really come through as clearly, which is why I say that nothing should be put on an MOTY list until it's been seen ON TAPE.


----------



## Sephiroth

PulseGlazer said:


> After every Chicago show it seems a match that's **** 1/2ish gets the full 5 from Chi fans. It's really getting annoying.


being there live makes anyone bias. like people saying Albright/Morishima and Claudio/Morishima are both **** 1/2 which seems a little high to me for some reason even tho i honestly hope they are that good.

anyways, as for the ladder match. it's just got a lot going for it as a MOTYC. people loved the Cage of Death last year and this match may not have been as big of a blowoff, it had just as much emotion and atmosphere than CoD did.

here's a little excerpt from my live report (i hope you read it Aaron)



Sephiroth said:


> Rating: you know...before i give the rating, i just want you guys to know that this might not have been as technically sound as their match against the Murder City Machine Guns or Claudio/Sydal, but this match was definitely way "better" than the others. FIVE FUCKING STARS! this will live up to the hype and i have no doubt this will be given the full 5 by Meltzer and given MOTY. it just had all the qualities you'd except. tons of heat, great atmopshere, the crowd was great, first time kind of match, very innovative, balls to the wall action, and just the kind of emotion you'd get from something truly special (like Dragon vs. KENTA I). i admit i wanted to see El Generico and Steen walk out as the winners before the match started, but by the end, i didn't care. it was amazing. Briscoes really manned up and this show will man up and prove why ROH is the best anywhere. there is a ton more that happened that i didn't mention. A LOT MORE.


i feel dumb now for name dropping Meltz but he's, you know, the "authority" when it comes to star ratings.

edit: also i have no doubt this will come off better on dvd or on PPV. they will have time to do little edits and make the transitions smoother. there were a few parts where some ladders didn't cooperate and Jay had trouble getting the belts down, and those little parts can be easily fixed with some good editing.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Of course I read your review. I've just been overhyped by Chicago reports a few times now and it's really getting old. I don't want to be disappointed in great matches. Most other huge matches are NY or Philly so I don't buy into the hype, I've found I'm usually fairly accurate at giving live report ratings as compared to on DVD, with the notable exception of Steenerico Briscoes one which was nowhere near on DVD what it was live.


----------



## MrPaiMei

I was in Boston and there's no doubt in my mind the average Claudio-Morishima rating will be about ****1/4.
-----------------------------------
We're into the fall and I'm thinking about how we should run the awards at the end of the year. I have a good plan, if you have any personal suggestions lemme know. But we're in the fall, and I want everyone to keep up so we can have some great voting. So here, based on popular opinion and not my own, is what EVERYONE needs to see so far before voting. If you can't find a link, lemme know. If you think something should be added...lemme know. One last thing...this is what is MUST SEE. Rottweilers vs. Necro/Toby is a great **** match, but isn't must see, it's not showing up on anyone's top 10, this is stuff that I expect to see on top 10s and everyone should see ALL OF THIS before voting.

WWE
John Cena vs. Umaga (Royal Rumble)
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania)
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels (RAW in England)
John Cena vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels (Backlash)

TNA
Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe (Destination X)
Chris Harris vs. James Storm (Sacrifice)

ROH
Nigel McGuinness vs. Samoa Joe (Liverpool)
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe (Finale)
Jimmy Rave vs. Nigel McGuinness (Finale)
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer (SCOHII)
CIMA/Susumu Yokosuka/Shingo vs. Dragon Kid/Ryo Saito/Masaaki Mochizuki (SCOHII)
Jay Briscoe/Mark Briscoe vs. Alex Shelley/Chris Sabin (GTGM)
Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness (Driven)
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA (Driven)
Bryan Danielson vs. Go Shiozaki (Tokyo)
Nigel McGuinness vs. Takeshi Morishima (Tokyo)

PWG
El Generico vs. PAC (ASWVN1)
Samoa Joe vs. Low Ki (ASWVN2

CHIKARA
Chris Hero vs. Mike Quackenbush (Anniversario?)

CZW
Chris Hero vs. Eddie Kingston (OWTOIWTN07)

NOAH (watching 9/9 and 8/31 soon, will update)
Jay Briscoe/Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki/Ricky Marvin (1/22)
Jun Akiyama/Takeshi Rikio vs. Takashi Suguira/Yoshihiro Takayama (4/28)
KENTA/Taiji Ishimori vs. Naomichi Marufuji/Kota Ibushi (7/15)

NJPW (Watching G1 now, will update)
Minoru Suzuki vs. Yuji Nagata (1/4)
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Yuji Nagata (April PPV)
Minoru vs. Ryusuke Taguchi (7/6)

AJPW (anyone seen some of the recent stuff? Suzuki-Mutoh, Suzuki-Kenskay, Naka-Sabin?)
Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima (2/16)

Dragon's Gate
MO'z vs. NH vs. Typhoon (Infinity 65)
NH vs. MO'z (World, just posted in other media)


----------



## McQueen

For NJPW, I think Tanahashi vs Koji Kanemoto from 2/18 for the IWGP is slick enough to make the grade, but I've seen other matches that deserve to be on the list more. Joe vs McGuiness from Liverpool should be on as well. And if your going to put Nigel/Morishima from Tokyo on there you might as well throw the 6 man from that show as well, because honestly I thought it was vastly superior to the title match.

Need to see NOAH 7/15 and the G-1 Climax


----------



## Taroostyles

For TNA, I think u need to add Joe vs Christian from Destination X and the Harris/Storm rematch from Impact.


----------



## Sephiroth

Taroostyles said:


> For TNA, I think u need to add Joe vs Christian from Destination X and the Harris/Storm rematch from Impact.


neither of those are 4 stars imo. so they shouldn't be considered MOTYC material even if they are two of the better TNA matches this year.


----------



## Taroostyles

Sephiroth said:


> neither of those are 4 stars imo. so they shouldn't be considered MOTYC material even if they are two of the better TNA matches this year.


Well the Harris/Storm rematch may not be **** but IMO Joe/Christian is somewhere between **** and ****1/4.


----------



## Sephiroth

Taroostyles said:


> Well the Harris/Storm rematch may not be **** but IMO Joe/Christian is somewhere between **** and ****1/4.


well i think it's more like *** 1/2. but if you think it's that good, then tell PaiMei to add it.


----------



## Blasko

Just re-watched Go/Dragon and what ya know, it got better~!

**** 3/4's and my current MOTY.

And just watched KENTA/Ishimori vs. Marufuji/Ibushi, even with Fuji there, it got a solid **** 1/4 or even **** 1/2, haven't decided yet.

Good stuff. :Agree:


----------



## PulseGlazer

WWE
Cena vs. Umaga
HBK vs. Cena (Wrestlemania)

TNA
Harris vs. Storm
Christian vs. Joe

ROH
Danielson vs. Go
Danielson vs. Nigel
Danielson vs. Morishima 1
MCMG vs. Briscoes
Jacobs vs. Whitmer SCOH 2
Briscoes vs. Steenerico Ladder War

PWG
Joe vs. Ki

Chikara
Hero vs. Quackenbush


----------



## MrPaiMei

I'm not really adding live stuff till it's seen widely on tape. As for the other ones brought up, I'll give you Joe-McGuinness, great story, and if Nigel does reach potential will be seen as a hugely important match. ABsolutly not Harris-Storm 2, that will show up on 0 top 10's guarenteed. Joe-Christian...that's REALLY borderline, but ok. Hero-Quack I'll def add, if only because a number of people REALLY loved it, thus you should check it out if you plan on voting. I'm working on an archive with links for every match there, I'll post in November or so when I start the voting process.


----------



## Future Star

MrPaiMei said:


> *John Cena* vs. Umaga (Royal Rumble)
> *John Cena *vs. Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania)
> *John Cena* vs. Shawn Michaels (RAW in England)


And people think he sucks :no: 

Also add Cena vs Edge vs Orton vs HBK from Backlash, fantastic match


----------



## MrPaiMei

Completely forgot bout that and it deserves a spot


----------



## -Mystery-

Hell, I'd even throw in Cena/Lashley as a low end MOTYC. I fucking loved that match.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Anyone who reads this thread and still doubts that Cena is the fucking man deserves a slap to the face.


----------



## lizmark

El Generico vs. PAC @PWG All Stars Weekend
Davey Richards vs. Low Ki @PWG All Stars Weekend
Samoa Joe vs. Low Ki @PWG All Stars Weekend
BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs @ROH Supercard Of Honor II
Danielsson/McGuinnes vs. Morishima/Marufuji @ROH United We Stand


----------



## MrPaiMei

-Mystery- I haven't seen that. Is it honestly top 10 material? I'm doing one more cut on the list in November, then I'm gonna request everyne make sure they see everything their before voting, so I don't want it to be overwhelming.


----------



## bstaple12

I think Cena-Lashley is a pretty good match but not a motyc.


----------



## -Mystery-

MrPaiMei said:


> -Mystery- I haven't seen that. Is it honestly top 10 material? I'm doing one more cut on the list in November, then I'm gonna request everyne make sure they see everything their before voting, so I don't want it to be overwhelming.


Definitely top 10 material for the WWE.


----------



## PulseGlazer

MrPaiMei said:


> I'm not really adding live stuff till it's seen widely on tape. As for the other ones brought up, I'll give you Joe-McGuinness, great story, and if Nigel does reach potential will be seen as a hugely important match. ABsolutly not Harris-Storm 2, that will show up on 0 top 10's guarenteed. Joe-Christian...that's REALLY borderline, but ok. Hero-Quack I'll def add, if only because a number of people REALLY loved it, thus you should check it out if you plan on voting. I'm working on an archive with links for every match there, I'll post in November or so when I start the voting process.


American MOTY seems like a guarantee to come from ROH. Any disagreement?

Danielson vs. Go, MCMG vs. Briscoes, and Jacobs vs. Whitmer in the cage are the frontrunners on DVD, though in a week, the new frontrunner will be on PPV.


----------



## StraightEdge

PulseGlazer said:


> American MOTY seems like a guarantee to come from ROH. Any disagreement?
> 
> Danielson vs. Go, MCMG vs. Briscoes, and Jacobs vs. Whitmer in the cage are the frontrunners on DVD, though in a week, the new frontrunner will be on PPV.


Yeah, and Don't Forget KENTA Vs Dragon/ And the Briscoes Vs Generico & Steen Ladder Matches are Front Runners that will be Released (Somewhat) soon.


----------



## MrPaiMei

I don't think it's a guarentee. Hero-Kingston is up there with everything but KENTA-Dragon from what I've seen, and I'm sure HBK could carry Cena to a true classic at the end of the year. As for TNA... they could give guys like Joe and AJ 30 minutes and they WOULD give us a ***** match, but they won't.


----------



## KingKicks

PulseGlazer said:


> American MOTY seems like a guarantee to come from ROH. Any disagreement?
> 
> Danielson vs. Go, MCMG vs. Briscoes, and Jacobs vs. Whitmer in the cage are the frontrunners on DVD, though in a week, the new frontrunner will be on PPV.


After all the reactions from Saturday's show, i'm sure that the ladder match will be the MOTY for ROH.

To the people who went to Manhattan Mayhem II, how was Morishima vs. Danielson?


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

PulseGlazer said:


> American MOTY seems like a guarantee to come from ROH. Any disagreement?
> 
> Danielson vs. Go, MCMG vs. Briscoes, and Jacobs vs. Whitmer in the cage are the frontrunners on DVD, though in a week, the new frontrunner will be on PPV.


I dunno...a lot of people seem very focused on early year WWE. Even I have three Cena matches clocking in at ****+, including my current top match.

It DOES seem like a guarantee that the American MOTY *won't* come from TNA though. :agree:


----------



## PulseGlazer

Benjo™ said:


> After all the reactions from Saturday's show, i'm sure that the ladder match will be the MOTY for ROH.
> 
> To the people who went to Manhattan Mayhem II, how was Morishima vs. Danielson?


The only big match I've missed so far this year is the ladder war. The two best matches I've seen are Dragon vs. Nigel and Dragon vs. Morishima. Both could be 5*, though I have a feeling the latter will be 4 and 3/4. 

Dragon vs. Kenta and Dragon vs. Go are a step below, but still amazing. Then there's the two big Briscoe matches in Chicago, including this weekend. I don't think anything has touched those matches in that order.

The two big Cena matches (vs. HBK at Mania and vs. Umaga at Rumble) are a step below, particularly Mania which only has atmosphere on the others. It technically isn't in the same league as the top Dragon stuff (I'm sorry, but if you honestly think it does, you need a lesson on the degree of difficulty in what they're attempting, both are great for what they are, Dragon's big 4 matches are just FAR deeper and more difficult). The Umaga match I've got all over the place, to be honest. I'm settling at about 4 and a half. It's very comparable to the Jacobs vs. Whitmer match, with less heat and better booking.


----------



## watts63

Newest Edition To My MOTYC List:

*WWE Backlash '07*
John Cena vs. Edge vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton ****-****1/4

*WWE Backlash '07*
Batista vs. The Undertaker II ****-****1/4

------------------------------------------------------------

*ROH Driven
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA III ****3/4-*****

ROH Good Times, Great Memories
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****3/4

CZW Out With The Old, In With The New
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****3/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/03/07
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****1/2-****3/4

ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe ****1/2

Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/21/07
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****1/2

ROH Respect is Earned
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal & Claudio Castagnoli ****1/2

WWE Royal Rumble '07
John Cena vs. Umaga ****1/2

ROH Good Times, Great Memories
Takeshi Morishima vs. SHINGO ****1/2

PWG Based On A True Story
Joey Ryan vs. Human Tornado ****1/2

PWG DDT4 Tag Team Title Tournament Night One
Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA ****1/4-****1/2

AJPW 2/17/07
Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima ****1/4-****1/2

ROH Live in Toyko
Bryan Danielson vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4-****1/2

PWG Holy Diver Down
Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin vs. Chris Bosh & Scott Lost ****1/4-****1/2

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Finale
Nigel McGuinness vs. Jimmy Rave ****1/4-****1/2

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi ****1/4-****1/2

ROH Supercard of Honor II
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer ****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night Two
Low Ki vs. Samoa Joe ****1/4

AJPW/NJPW Supershow 1/4/07
Minoru Suzuki vs. Yuji Nagata ****1/4

Dragon Gate 4/17/07
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid, BxB Hulk, Anthony W. Mori & Matt Sydal vs. Magnitude Kishiwada, Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi, Gamma, Cyber Kong & Jack Evans ****1/4

ROH Supercard of Honor II
CIMA, SHINGO & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid & Masaaki Mochizuki ****1/4

NJPW 4/13/07
Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 8/19/07
Takeshi Morishima vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4

PWG Holy Diver Down
Kevin Steen vs. PAC ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/24/07
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Rocky Romero & Taiji Ishimori ****1/4

PWG Guitarmageddon II: Armoryageddon
El Generico & Quicksilver vs. Roderick Strong & Davey Richards ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/4

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Finale
SHINGO & Naruki Doi vs. Roderick Strong & Davey Richards ****1/4

ROH All-Star Extravaganza III
CIMA, Ryo Saito, Susumu Yokosuka & Dragon Kid vs. Austin Aries, Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious & Rocky Romero ****-****1/4

WWE Vengeance '07
Edge vs. Batista ****-****1/4

ROH Live in Toyko
Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness II ****-****1/4

IWA-MS Sunday Bloody Sunday
Necro Butcher vs. Masada ****-****1/4

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Dayton
Roderick Strong vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. M-Dogg 20 vs. Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO vs. Pelle Primeau ****-****1/4

CHIKARA Rey de Voladores
Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli ****-****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
Low Ki vs. Davey Richards ****-****1/4

ROH Fighting Spirit
El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. Jay Briscoe & Erick Stevens & Then Mark Briscoe ****-****1/4

ROH Live in Toyko
Naomichi Marufuji, Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal, Ricky Marvin & Atsushi Aoki ****-****1/4

WWE Backlash '07
Batista vs. The Undertaker ****-****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
El Generico vs. PAC ****-****1/4

WWE Backlash '07
John Cena vs. Edge vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton ****-****1/4

SHIMMER Vol. 9
Amazing Kong vs. MsChif ****

WWE Wrestlemania 23
Batista vs. The Undertaker I ****

ROH Battle of St. Paul
Takeshi Morishima vs. Austin Aries ****

PWG Battle of Los Angeles '07 Night One
Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Dragon Kid & Sumusu Yokosuka ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: NYC
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima ****

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
Roderick Strong vs. Rocky Romero ****

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki II ****

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07
Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale
Samoa Joe vs. Homicide ****

IWA-MS HURT 2007
Roderick Strong vs. Low Ki ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Philly
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Chicago
Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
Kaz Hayashi vs. Alex Shelley ****

IWA-MS It's Gotta Be The Shoes
Chuck Taylor vs. Low Ki ****

WWE RAW 4/23/07
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels II ****

ROH Fight At The Roxbury
Nigel McGuinness vs. Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Mike Quackenbush ****

ROH Fight At The Roxbury
Kevin Steen vs. Mark Briscoe **** 

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Liverpool
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO & Naruki Doi ****

Dragon Gate Wrestle JAM 2 ???
Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Jimmy Rave & Muscle Gang vs. CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Dragon Kid & Matt Sydal vs. SHINGO, Cyber Kong, El Generico & Jack Evans ****

FIP New Years Classic '07
Roderick Strong & Jack Evans vs. SHINGO & Jimmy Rave ****

TNA Sacrifice '07
Chris Harris vs. James Storm ****

PWG 70|30
Alex Shelley vs. Rocky Romero ****

WWE Great American Bash '07
John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley ****

WWE New Year's Revolution '07
Randy Orton & Edge vs. Triple H & Shawn Michaels ****

ROH Good Times, Great Memories
Austin Aries vs. Rocky Romero *****​


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

PulseGlazer said:


> The two big Cena matches (vs. HBK at Mania and vs. Umaga at Rumble) are a step below, particularly Mania which only has atmosphere on the others. It technically isn't in the same league as the top Dragon stuff (I'm sorry, but if you honestly think it does, you need a lesson on the degree of difficulty in what they're attempting, both are great for what they are, Dragon's big 4 matches are just FAR deeper and more difficult).


See, the trick is realizing that it's a different kind of match. I understand the degree of difficulty in what Dragon goes for, but I find him to be overambitious in his attempts to make every match a classic.

In trying to put on good, fun matches laced with psychology and storytelling, I still maintain that Cena has outworked him, regardless. The quality of a wrestling match is more or less measured in how well it accomplishes what it sets out to do, and no one wrestles the kind of match they go for as well as Cena tends to and did at Mania.

And for that matter, since when did complexity automatically equate to quality?


----------



## the_last_rites

I hope that *Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Jimmy Rave & Muscle Gang vs. CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Dragon Kid & Matt Sydal vs. SHINGO, Cyber Kong, El Generico & Jack Evans* match doesnt turn out to be something like the Do Fixer/ Blood Gen match from last year which Meltzer creamed his pants multiple times over because frankly that match is terribly overrated


----------



## Blasko

the_last_rites said:


> I hope that *Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Jimmy Rave & Muscle Gang vs. CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Dragon Kid & Matt Sydal vs. SHINGO, Cyber Kong, El Generico & Jack Evans* match doesnt turn out to be something like the Do Fixer/ Blood Gen match from last year which Meltzer creamed his pants multiple times over because frankly that match is terribly overrated


 Like Joe s Kobashi?


----------



## -GP-

TheUnholyDragon said:


> And for that matter, since when did complexity automatically equate to quality?


That's exactly what makes reading Cena-bashing posts in the other sections so much fun to read!
Everyone's main argument is that he "only does five moves"
I'm going to skip past the irony of some of these people being Taker marks or something - nothing wrong with that, it's just ironic - and ask, like you said, "Since when does complexity equates quality"?
If that was the case, we should all only be watching Danielson and Quack all the time.
Look at Mick Foley.
The man admits he sucks as a pure wrestler, but he's had some classic matches because he rocks in ring psychology and in-ring storytelling. 
Same with Taker, and same with Cena...

It's just such a laugh to listen to people who's "best match ever" is the Cell from KotR '98, claim Cena sucks because "he only does five moves"...i'm not even gonna point out the irony there.

"Cena sucks" really defines a smark for me. All smartened up but still not realising what wrestling is all about.
Just look at all the people populating this thread, who watch indys and japan, saying Cena is pretty damn good and look at all the WWE-only guys bashing him because they think that's cool


Anyway, about ROH having the north-American MOTY, i'm pretty sure about that too.
Kingston-Hero was good, but i don't think it was the kind of match that gets MOTY...not in my book anyway

From WWE you had Cena-Umaga being the best contender but it still falls short of the ROH matches...maybe with HBK comming back later in the year...we'll see.

TNA has really had a crap year thus far in terms of matches (not that it's been good in other terms...)
Lots of matches near ****, but their best match for me (Harris-Storm) is nowhere near MOTY matterial
They can always just put Chris Daniels and AJ in a ring and give us a ****+ belter, but i'm not holding my breath...


----------



## Mike Rivers

Here A list of TNA'S 4+ Star Matches (Rated By Dave Meltzer)

Destination X: Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe **** 

Lockdown: Christian Cage/Tomko/Abyss/Scott Steiner/AJ Styles vs. Kurt Angle/Sting/Samoa Joe/Rhino/Jeff Jarrett (Lethal Lockdown) ****

Sariface: Chris Sabin vs. Jay Lethal vs. Sonjay Dutt ****

Sariface: Chris Harris vs. James Storm (Texas Death) ****1/4

Slammaversary: Samoa Joe vs. AJ Styles vs. Chris Harris vs. Christian Cage vs. Kurt Angle (King of the Mountain) ****1/4

Source http://www.geocities.com/mfoy18/tnastarlist.html


----------



## Sephiroth

the_last_rites said:


> I hope that *Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Jimmy Rave & Muscle Gang vs. CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Dragon Kid & Matt Sydal vs. SHINGO, Cyber Kong, El Generico & Jack Evans* match doesnt turn out to be something like the Do Fixer/ Blood Gen match from last year which Meltzer creamed his pants multiple times over because frankly that match is terribly overrated


i doubt Meltzer will rate it.

Meltzer only rates certain ROH and Puro stuff. he's too busy jerking off to MMA these days to care about anything outside mainstream wrestling.


----------



## /TNAngle/

Mike Rivers said:


> Destination X: Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe ****


 ****?!

This guy needs to lay off the crack pipe!


----------



## peep4life

/TNAngle/ said:


> ****?!
> 
> This guy needs to lay off the crack pipe!


I know I gave it at least ****1/4.
Seriously, this was a fantastic match.


----------



## watts63

Mike Rivers said:


> Here A list of TNA'S 4+ Star Matches (Rated By Dave Meltzer)
> 
> Slammaversary: Samoa Joe vs. AJ Styles vs. Chris Harris vs. Christian Cage vs. Kurt Angle (King of the Mountain) ****1/4
> 
> Source http://www.geocities.com/mfoy18/tnastarlist.html


What? I gave it ***1/4-***1/2. That match nothing but very good spots & the ending was just dumb.


----------



## Mike Rivers

watts63 said:
 

> What? I gave it ***1/4-***1/2. That match nothing but very good spots & the ending was just dumb.


I did not mind the ending(But Joe Should Have Won).


----------



## watts63

Mike Rivers said:


> I did not mind the ending(But Joe Should Have Won).


I just hated that Harris did not spear the man who clearly had the title in his hands (Angle). Christian should have had the title & when Harris speared him, Angle could have took the belt off of Cage just in time to win but yeah I was hoping for Joe to win too.


----------



## ROH

watts63 said:


> I just hated that Harris did not spear the man who clearly had the title in his hands (Angle). Christian should have had the title & when Harris speared him, Angle could have took the belt off of Cage just in time to win but yeah I was hoping for Joe to win too.


Agreed about the finish. Watching the match, I was surprised at the lack of totally illogical spots like that, until the finish. Harris should have dropkicked the ladder or something.


----------



## watts63

Two More Great Matches From The 'E:

*WWE New Year's Revolution '07*
Randy Orton & Edge vs. Triple H & Shawn Michaels ****

*WWE Wrestlemania 23*
Batista vs. The Undertaker I ****


----------



## -GP-

watts63 said:


> *WWE New Year's Revolution '07*
> Randy Orton & Edge vs. Triple H & Shawn Michaels ****


You know what i really love about this match?

Once HHH gets injured, all hell breaks loose. 
Trips and Edge are down in the ring with the ref going from one to the other to figure out what to do (which takes too long), Orton is on the outside and is COMPLETELY lost, going as fas as almost ruining the match with that mistaken run-in with the chair...
Overall, the whole thing is a clusterfuck for a couple of minutes.
And then...
Shawn Michaels takes control!
He dashes through the ring, dives onto Orton on the outside and goes berserk, getting rid of the ref, putting everyone in his place, calling the whole thing on the fly and quite simply not only salvaging the match, but giving it a hugely enjoyable finish as well!
Well done HBK!


----------



## watts63

cp_punk said:


> You know what i really love about this match?
> 
> Once HHH gets injured, all hell breaks loose.
> Trips and Edge are down in the ring with the ref going from one to the other to figure out what to do (which takes too long), Orton is on the outside and is COMPLETELY lost, going as fas as almost ruining the match with that mistaken run-in with the chair...
> Overall, the whole thing is a clusterfuck for a couple of minutes.
> And then...
> Shawn Michaels takes control!
> He dashes through the ring, dives onto Orton on the outside and goes berserk, getting rid of the ref, putting everyone in his place, calling the whole thing on the fly and quite simple not only salvaging the match, but giving it a hugely enjoyable finish as well!
> Well done HBK!


HBK totally saved the match & also HHH still doing the Pedigree on Edge even tho he destroyed his knee. Gotta respect that.


----------



## GenerationNeXt

*ROH Good Times Great Memories*
Shingo Vs Morishima - ****/****1/4

*ROH Good Times Great Memories*
Motor City AKA Murder City Machine Guns Vs Briscoe Bros. - *****

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Philly*
Steenerico Vs Briscoe Bros. - ****1/2

*ROH Domination*
Steenerico Vs QuackenSaw - ****1/2

*ROH Good Times Great Memories*
Austin Aries Vs Rocky Romero - ****

*ROH Supercard of Honor II*
*Steel Cage Match * BJ Whitmer Vs Jimmy Jacobs ****1/2

*CZW Dishonorable Conduct*
Drake Younger Vs Brain Damage - ****

*CZW Dishonorable Conduct*
*Ladder Match* Scotty Vortexz Vs Cloudy - **** (Short, but whoa, fuckin insane match. Vortexz kills Cloudy at the end with I don't even know what the hell to call it lol)

*ROH Fight at The Roxbury*
Kevin Steen Vs Mark Briscoe - **** (I found this match even though short, very entertaining)

I'll add more


----------



## watts63

> ROH Domination
> Steenerico Vs QuackenJig - ****1/2
> 
> ROH All Star Extravaganza 3
> Steel Cage Match BJ Whitmer Vs Jimmy Jacobs ****1/2
> 
> I'll add more



Whitmer vs. Jacobs Steel Cage actually happened on Supercard of Honor II & Quackenbush & Jigsaw is actually Quacksaw.


----------



## GenerationNeXt

watts63 said:


> Whitmer vs. Jacobs Steel Cgae actually happened on Supercard of Honor II & Quackenbush & Jigsaw is actually Quacksaw.


Alright I'll change the Whitmer Vs Jacobs thing man, and I also have it QuackenJig because that was the first thing I named the team lol.


----------



## Sephiroth

GenerationNeXt6 said:


> ROH Good Times Great Memories
> Motor City Machine Guns Vs Briscoe Bros. - *****


you spelled "Murder City Machine Guns" wrong >_>


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

They were the Motor City Machine Guns first.

So he outsmarked you.


----------



## -Mystery-

TheUnholyDragon said:


> They were the Motor City Machine Guns first.
> 
> So he outsmarked you.


But Murder City Machine Guns sounds sooo much cooler.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

And also makes less sense.

Motor City Machine Guns fits, due to their mutual hometown of Detroit. Also known as "The Motor City"

Murder City Machine Guns sounds like they're trying too hard to be intimidating, meanwhile missing the original point of the name.


----------



## Sephiroth

TheUnholyDragon said:


> They were the Motor City Machine Guns first.
> 
> So he outsmarked you.


i like to think as "Motor City Machine Guns" as a sign of oppression from TNA and they won't be free until they are shed of that name and be the "Murder City Machine Guns" again

besides, during GTGM, they are called and referred to as "Murder", not "Motor" and whether they were called "Motor" first or not doesn't matter because he mentioned the GTGM tag match where they should be referred to as "Murder"


----------



## watts63

Another Great Match From John Cena:

*WWE Great American Bash '07*
John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley ****​
Has anybody seen any great Joshi matches this year?


----------



## Sephiroth

watts63 said:


> Another Great Match From John Cena:
> 
> *WWE Great American Bash '07*
> John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley ****​
> Has anybody seen any great Joshi matches this year?


uh...i saw Amazing Kong vs. Stalker Ichikawa Z from 2005 (i think it was 2005)

**** 3/4

almost perfection, it needed more fingerpokes in Kong's butt tho


----------



## Blasko

Sephiroth said:


> almost perfection, it needed more fingerpokes in Kong's butt tho


 Kong's ass of steel would have broke Stalker's hands. 

HANDS.


----------



## -Mystery-

TheUnholyDragon said:


> And also makes less sense.
> 
> Motor City Machine Guns fits, due to their mutual hometown of Detroit. Also known as "The Motor City"
> 
> Murder City Machine Guns sounds like they're trying too hard to be intimidating, meanwhile missing the original point of the name.


Not sure if you know this or not but Detriot is notorious for high rates of murder.


----------



## PulseGlazer

TheUnholyDragon said:


> See, the trick is realizing that it's a different kind of match. I understand the degree of difficulty in what Dragon goes for, but I find him to be overambitious in his attempts to make every match a classic.
> 
> In trying to put on good, fun matches laced with psychology and storytelling, I still maintain that Cena has outworked him, regardless. The quality of a wrestling match is more or less measured in how well it accomplishes what it sets out to do, and no one wrestles the kind of match they go for as well as Cena tends to and did at Mania.
> 
> And for that matter, since when did complexity automatically equate to quality?


The quality does not come from the moves, but the story told. Cena is having an amazing year and is my MVP, but the stories he's been telling do not measure up. They are nearly perfect, fairly simple stories. If we're comparing it to a book, say Of Mice and Men, which is great, plenty intelligent and damn near perfect. It can be your favorite, but it doesn't take the level of skill to accomplish it that other works did.

Bryan Danielson does sometimes try too much, but not in his best 3-4 Matches (KENTA, Morishima, Go, and Nigel). He isn't doing any big fancy moves in these for the most part. He's just weaving more threads into his story. Continuing the analogy from earlier, while Cena's Of Mice and Men is damn near perfect, even though it's very straightforward, when Danielson is clicking in these matches, he's going damn near War and Peace, or, if we want to use Steinbeck Grapes of Wrath or East of Eden, which are just technically much more difficult and take more skill to accomplish. Cena has been great, but Danielson has been just as great in those matches with a FAR greater degree of difficulty.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Oh and to be anal, I'm going to complain at some match ratings:

*ROH Driven
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA III ****3/4-******

Great as it was live, nearly everyone who rewatched bumped it down to 4 and a half to 4 and 3/4 at most. There's some glaring errors in there and it's the worst of the four huge Danielson matches this year. Remember, Dragon-KENTA 1 might be my fav match ever, so that pains me to say.


*ROH Supercard of Honor II
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer ****1/4*

I don't know how you can underrate this so much. They went absolutely sky high with the violence and still told a compelling story. Jacobs hurt leg at the end stops it from being 5, but it's still **** 1/2 to **** 3/4.

*ROH Live in Toyko
Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness II ****-****1/4*

The story was hackneyed. This is *** 1/2-ish. Their fighting spirit match is **** 1/2.

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories
Takeshi Morishima vs. SHINGO ****1/2*

Give me a real reason why. It's ****, just fun and surprising.

*ROH Live in Toyko
Bryan Danielson vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4-****1/2*

Rewatch this, realize what they accomplished with their story and what they did to a dead crowd. This is **** 1/2 to **** 3/4, the best match on DVD right now this year.

*PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
Low Ki vs. Davey Richards ****-****1/4*

Ki carried him, but he didn't carry him that high. 

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: NYC
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima *****

What were you watching? This played so beautifully off these guys history, particularly Joe's with Joe in the Kobashi role just 2 years later. Fantastic. **** 1/2 and I rarely see it lower.

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale
Samoa Joe vs. Homicide *****

Emotional, but not actually very good. Joe vs. Nigel the night before is **** 1/4 and better. This is closer to *** 1/2.

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories
Austin Aries vs. Rocky Romero *****

***. Most overrated fun match around.

And I forgot to copy it, but Quacksaw vs. Steenerico is **** tops. It's great for what it is, but is still what it is.


----------



## MrPaiMei

PulseGlazer said:


> Oh and to be anal, I'm going to complain at some match ratings:
> 
> *ROH Driven
> Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA III ****3/4-******
> 
> Great as it was live, nearly everyone who rewatched bumped it down to 4 and a half to 4 and 3/4 at most. There's some glaring errors in there and it's the worst of the four huge Danielson matches this year. Remember, Dragon-KENTA 1 might be my fav match ever, so that pains me to say.
> 
> *ROH Live in Toyko
> Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness II ****-****1/4*
> 
> The story was hackneyed. This is *** 1/2-ish. Their fighting spirit match is **** 1/2.
> 
> *ROH Live in Toyko
> Bryan Danielson vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4-****1/2*
> 
> Rewatch this, realize what they accomplished with their story and what they did to a dead crowd. This is **** 1/2 to **** 3/4, the best match on DVD right now this year.
> 
> And I forgot to copy it, but Quacksaw vs. Steenerico is **** tops. It's great for what it is, but is still what it is.


Please elaborate. I see no flaws in Dragon-KENTA III, don't understand what was so hackneyed in the Tokyo main event (it was too guys beating on each other for a title done perfectly with a great build, not too many nearfalls, and a hot as fuck crowd) and don't understand what great story brings Dragon-Shiozaki up from a "vet vs. student" exhibitiony ****, right after praising the virtues of Dragon's complex stories (which I admittadley saw in the KENTA match).


----------



## -GP-

PulseGlazer said:


> The quality does not come from the moves, but the story told. Cena is having an amazing year and is my MVP, but the stories he's been telling do not measure up. They are nearly perfect, fairly simple stories. If we're comparing it to a book, say Of Mice and Men, which is great, plenty intelligent and damn near perfect. It can be your favorite, but it doesn't take the level of skill to accomplish it that other works did.
> 
> Bryan Danielson does sometimes try too much, but not in his best 3-4 Matches (KENTA, Morishima, Go, and Nigel). He isn't doing any big fancy moves in these for the most part. He's just weaving more threads into his story. Continuing the analogy from earlier, while Cena's Of Mice and Men is damn near perfect, even though it's very straightforward, when Danielson is clicking in these matches, he's going damn near War and Peace, or, if we want to use Steinbeck Grapes of Wrath or East of Eden, which are just technically much more difficult and take more skill to accomplish. Cena has been great, but Danielson has been just as great in those matches with a FAR greater degree of difficulty.


Love the analogy you're using here!

He is telling simple stories and doing a mighty fine job at it. I honestly think that even if he could pull off the complex stories of the likes of Dragon, they'd probably fly over the heads of 90% of the audience he performs for.
They'd probably dismiss, say, KENTA's Fighting Spirit for "no selling" or something like that. 

It's to Cena's credit that he's managed to carry several "Lenny"s like Lashley to decent matches, and it's only when you see Batista-Khali that you realise how good a job he did with him.
i'm really looking forward to HBK's return so we may get a decent oponent for him to work with.
I'm confident he'll pull off another belter with Orton in a type of match he's good in (his Last Man Standing with Umaga is my personal WWE MOTY - although not my overall MOTY)

Anyway, i agree with you that he probably won't be getting MOTY even if he does get a ****3/4 match or something under his belt by the end of the year (maybe a Triple Threat with HHH & HBK...?) because of the simplicity of the stories he's been telling.


----------



## watts63

PulseGlazer said:


> Oh and to be anal, I'm going to complain at some match ratings:
> 
> *ROH Driven
> Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA III ****3/4-******
> 
> Great as it was live, nearly everyone who rewatched bumped it down to 4 and a half to 4 and 3/4 at most. There's some glaring errors in there and it's the worst of the four huge Danielson matches this year. Remember, Dragon-KENTA 1 might be my fav match ever, so that pains me to say.
> 
> 
> *ROH Supercard of Honor II
> Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer ****1/4*
> 
> I don't know how you can underrate this so much. They went absolutely sky high with the violence and still told a compelling story. Jacobs hurt leg at the end stops it from being 5, but it's still **** 1/2 to **** 3/4.
> 
> 
> *ROH Fifth Year Festival: NYC
> Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima *****
> 
> What were you watching? This played so beautifully off these guys history, particularly Joe's with Joe in the Kobashi role just 2 years later. Fantastic. **** 1/2 and I rarely see it lower.
> 
> *ROH Good Times, Great Memories
> Takeshi Morishima vs. SHINGO ****1/2*
> 
> Give me a real reason why. It's ****, just fun and surprising.
> 
> 
> And I forgot to copy it, but Quacksaw vs. Steenerico is **** tops. It's great for what it is, but is still what it is.



1. I did rewatched KENTA/Danielson III & I took it down from a full ***** lol. Still loved it.

2. Jacobs vs. Whitmer was excellent but at times it got un-realistic to me like when they were both stabbing each other at the same time. Didn't like that so much.

3. I watch this match several times & it's still just **** to me. I don't see how this can be ****1/2 or higher.

4. I'm gonna make this short & sweet why it was this high...I fucking loved it lol. Puro Heavyweight Wrestling At Its Finest.

Also I don't look much into matches except a story, botches & selling which I is to look at in a match, I don't know lol but I respect your opinions. Every match on my list is exciting to me.


----------



## PulseGlazer

MrPaiMei said:


> Please elaborate. I see no flaws in Dragon-KENTA III, don't understand what was so hackneyed in the Tokyo main event (it was too guys beating on each other for a title done perfectly with a great build, not too many nearfalls, and a hot as fuck crowd) and don't understand what great story brings Dragon-Shiozaki up from a "vet vs. student" exhibitiony ****, right after praising the virtues of Dragon's complex stories (which I admittadley saw in the KENTA match).


My KENTA -Dragon live review- 

Okay, first know that this was slow and these guys basically eschewed all major spots, telling their story mostly with the basics and kicking the shit out of each other, but oh- what a story. 

In their early encounters, Danielson would wrestle a regular match in which KENTA would simply match him before using a big strike to knock Danielson out. Their big title match occurred right after Danielson hurt his shoulder, so KENTA spent much of the match attacking that, not the head, and the big move, the Go to Sleep, wasn't enough to put Danielson away as a result. That combined with Danielson, wounded and dangerous, deciding that since his offense wasn't enough decided to borrow liberally from previous opponents offense. In this way Danielson was successful in the defense.

_In this match, Danielson, cocky as always and undefeated since his return, went back to his basic offense, just adding new twists. This was effective and he controlled much of the match. KENTA this time, however, didn't stray from his strategy of trying to knock Danielson out. Danielson actually hurt his right shoulder in the middle of this match and KENTA all but ignored it, knowing that it cost him the title in their first singles encounter. Danielson, this time, attacked all the limbs of KENTA, trying to wear down the striking power, but in the end, he couldn't do it enough. KENTA is stronger and faster and when he stuck to his strategy and didn't go off attacking any limbs, but stuck with the knockout blows, his offense managed to pay off before Danielson's wear and tear attack. Great stuff._

The problems are not with KENTA here, but with Dragon. He comes off looking like a rather dumb wrestler attempting to strike with KENTA for so much of the match when he never did this in their previous encounters and kept losing quickly. There's also a good bit of pointlessness at the beginning which would serve as a feeling out proccess were this not match 3.


Now from HayHay17 on the ROH Board: Go vs. Danielson

_EVERYTHING I love about wrestling this match had. Great selling, Danielson being a dick, cool japanese guy choping people, reincorporation (Seriously, the struggle over ther fishermans buster is probably my fave sequence in any match this year, pure genius, puts Danielson's arm work over, puts his fighting spirit over, puts Shiosaki over as a touhg SOB, as well as smart, great stuff) This was how I'd always imagined a Danielson Vs Kobashi match would be, only it was probably better because Danielson got to set the pace so there was an emphasis on selling (plus no wacky junior vs heavy dynamic). Seriously, go out of your way to see this match, its just so good. Whats amazing about Danielson is the intensity he brings to the small holds. Just the opening arm work has the sense he's trying to finish the match. It means that unlike The Briscoes or Nigel or other "ROH style" guys, you never feel like your just waiting for the hot finishing sequence. The entire match is rewarding. Seriously, Bryan Danielson=Best in the world, and LIGHT YEARS above the rest of the roster. Gabe, just give him his belt back already (I used to say this jokingly, but its geting painful how much better he is than everyone else, ROH's infusion of fresh talent means he would have a bunch of fresh matches as champ. Just give him the belty, please. Or Nigel for a little while, then Danielson. I'm not picky)_

More from me:

Dragon vs. Go has that great story you mentioned, but quite a bit more. Early in the match Danielson is really, REALLY scared of Go's chops, but kind of treats him like a joke besides. A lot of what happens after is Dragon's slow realization that this guy can maybe go with him on the mat and has perhaps superior technical skills. So Dragon ups the ante, and Go can adapt and stay with him, but Dragon still has the arm work, and young Go is reliant on his chops. Without them he can't quite wear Danielson down enough for his tools to get him the win, and when Danielson realizes this (and there's a specific moment), he just changes the match and kills. Just perfect pay off and great quality.

Again from HayHay on Nigel vs. Mori 2- 

_Seriously this was one of the worst matches of Morishima's reign. Nigel...if your not going to reincorporate the arm work from the start, don't do it. It wastes time, is pointless, and ruins the story. The match was everything we hate about post Kobashi Noah, poor selling, emphasis on fighting spirit with out bothering to tie it to charachter or story, contrived big moves done with no reason etc. Just really poor. 

Seriously Nigel, its not the lariats, its the lack of logic and thought in your matches. ROH is supposed to be the thinking man's wrestling company. Thats the tradition of CM Punk and Samoa Joe. If you want to be an ROH main eventer, we don't just want stiff strikes and cool sunglases. We want a story thats compelling, we want matches that build to a finish, logically, with out the rest of the match feeling pointless. In short, we want you to think. Please._

I'll pile on a bit. Now, Nigel apparently learned nothing in their first match. He goes to the same things the same ways. He barely fell short by being unpredictable time one. Time two he's perfectly predictable and just normal Nigel, except with less payoff and no actual build to any of the spots that are payed off from earlier in the match, let alone from the last match. Also, I really really hate pointless body work. That might as well not have been in the match for all the effect it had.


----------



## MrPaiMei

I'm going to rewatch KENTA-Dragon and Dragon-Go and respond, because I see your points but I'm really not sure if I agree with them, to be honest. Nigel-Mori we'll never agree on. To me, the body work was just a attempt at creating the great puro atmosphere by having a through and through NOAH match, so it did not bother me in the slightest. And while Nigel used the same strategy as FS, that strategy resulted in Nigel pinning Mori at UWS so I also liked that.


----------



## Sephiroth

what do you guys think about Randy Orton vs. Edge from last April as a WWE MOTYC? i thought it was fantastic and it was one of the better WWE matches this year. and based on what everone i saying, basically the only MOTYC's WWE has are HBK/Cena I, HBK/Cena in London, Cena/Edge/Orton/HBK, Cena/Umaga, and that's it. so 4 contenders for WWE?

i like having MOTYC put up against other MOTYC from the same promotion. it's never fair to compare MOTYC's from NOAH, ROH, WWE, TNA, and others especially when everyone is giving ROH tons of **** 3/4 ratings for matches and WWE's best is maybe **** 1/2 (imo the best WWE match this year is Cena/Umage and i gave it **** 1/4)


----------



## watts63

I thought Edge vs. Orton was very good but not even a **** match to me.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

watts63 said:


> 2. Jacobs vs. Whitmer was excellent but at times it got un-realistic to me like when they were both stabbing each other at the same time. Didn't like that so much.


If you're looking for realism, you should never watch Dragon Gate. Ever.

Seriously...that was such a pro wrestling moment and it was EPIC. I don't see how you can hate it.


And Glazer, I have to say I dug your analogy with the Danielson/Cena thing and respect your opinions on it. I'm still not of the same opinion, but I can agree to disagree on it before we take over the thread.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Hurm. Double post.


----------



## watts63

TheUnholyDragon said:


> If you're looking for realism, you should never watch Dragon Gate. Ever.
> 
> Seriously...that was such a pro wrestling moment and it was EPIC. I don't see how you can hate it.


But I love Dragon Gate lol. I didn't say I hate it, I liked it but I wasn't really crazy for that spot like everybody else.


----------



## El Conquistador

Rewatched KENTA vs. Danielson from ROH Driven (6/23/07). Deciding to settle on ****3/4for now. I was there live and originally gave it *****'s but after rewatching it two times I came to the conclusion ****3/4's is the perfect rating for it.


----------



## PulseGlazer

TheUnholyDragon said:


> If you're looking for realism, you should never watch Dragon Gate. Ever.
> 
> Seriously...that was such a pro wrestling moment and it was EPIC. I don't see how you can hate it.
> 
> 
> And Glazer, I have to say I dug your analogy with the Danielson/Cena thing and respect your opinions on it. I'm still not of the same opinion, but I can agree to disagree on it before we take over the thread.


Agreed to disagree, sounds good. 

I'll decide on KENTA vs. Dragon's final scoring when I watch again. I'm keeping Go vs. Dragon at **** 1/2, but it's a high 4 and a half, if that makes sense. Clearly better than the similarly rated Joe vs. Mori and Nigel vs. Mori 1.


----------



## ROH

PulseGlazer said:


> *ROH Live in Toyko
> Bryan Danielson vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4-****1/2*
> 
> Rewatch this, realize what they accomplished with their story and what they did to a dead crowd. This is **** 1/2 to **** 3/4, the best match on DVD right now this year.


What? Dude, he gave it ****1/4_*1/2*, and you're complaining saying it should be *****1/2*_3/4. Quit yer moanin'.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Realize the difference between best match on DVD currently and middle of the pack MOTYC and know it isn't about the star rating.


----------



## watts63

A Great Women's Match:

*SHIMMER Vol. 9*
Amazing Kong vs. MsChif ****

Would have gotten ****-****1/4 if MsChif didn't botch a Small Package. This was the first match I ever saw from Amazing Kong & now I'm looking for more.

"Weighting At None of Your Damn Business" Kong Rules.

EDIT: Also saw Steenerico vs. Quacksaw & gave it ***3/4-****.


----------



## musdy

I saw Driven & im gonna add Danielson/McGuiness-****1/2


----------



## Mr. Papaya

I just got around to watching Joe-Nigel from FYF: Liverpool, and that one would have to be around 4 1/2 stars. Cena-HBK II is still my current match of the year.


----------



## watts63

*ROH Driven
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA III ****3/4

ROH Good Times, Great Memories
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****3/4

CZW Out With The Old, In With The New
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****3/4

ROH Death Before Dishonor V Night Two
Roderick Strong, Davey Richards, Rocky Romero & Matt Sydal vs. Austin Aries, Erick Stevens, M-Dogg 20 & Delirious ****1/2-****3/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/03/07
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****1/2-****3/4

BJPW 3/14/07
Takashi Sasaki vs. Yuko Miyamoto ****1/2-****3/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/21/07
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****1/2

ROH Respect is Earned
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal & Claudio Castagnoli ****1/2

WWE Royal Rumble '07
John Cena vs. Umaga ****1/2

ROH Manhattan Mayhem II
Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson ****1/2

ROH Good Times, Great Memories
Takeshi Morishima vs. SHINGO ****1/2

WWE RAW 4/23/07
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels II ****1/2

ROH Driven
Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness ****1/2

PWG Giant Size Annual #4
El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson ****1/2

Pro Wrestling NOAH 12/2/07
Kenta Kobashi & Yoshihiro Takayama vs. Mitsuhara Misawa & Jun Akiyama ****1/2

Dragon Gate Infinity #65
Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino & Magnitude Kishiwada vs. SHINGO, Cyber Kong & BxB Hulk vs. Susumu Yokosuka, Ryo Saito & Dragon Kid ****1/2 

PWG DDT4 Tag Team Title Tournament Night Two
Roderick Strong & PAC vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/2

PWG DDT4 Tag Team Title Tournament Night One
Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA ****1/4-****1/2

AJPW 2/17/07
Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima ****1/4-****1/2

ROH Live in Toyko
Bryan Danielson vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4-****1/2

WWE No Mercy '07
Triple H vs. Randy Orton II ****1/4-****1/2

Pro Wrestling NOAH 4/28/07
Jun Akiyama & Takeshi Rikio vs. Takashi Suguira & Yoshihiro Takayama ****1/4-****1/2

PWG Holy Diver Down
Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin vs. Chris Bosh & Scott Lost ****1/4-****1/2

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Finale
Nigel McGuinness vs. Jimmy Rave ****1/4-****1/2

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi ****1/4-****1/2

IWA-MS Ted Petty Invitional '07 Night Two
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****1/4-****1/2

NJPW 7/6/07
Minoru vs. Ryusuke Taguchi ****1/4-****1/2

ROH Supercard of Honor II
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer ****1/4

ROH Man Up
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico ****1/4

ROH Death Before Dishonor V Night One
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico ****1/4

PWG Based On A True Story
Joey Ryan vs. Human Tornado ****1/4

ROH Race To The Top Tournament Night Two
Claudio Castagnoli vs. El Generico ****1/4 

AJPW/NJPW Supershow 1/4/07
Minoru Suzuki vs. Yuji Nagata ****1/4

NJPW 11/11/07
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Hirooki Goto ****1/4

FIP Battle of The Belts
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens ****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night Two
Low Ki vs. Samoa Joe ****1/4

ROH Supercard of Honor II
CIMA, SHINGO & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid & Masaaki Mochizuki ****1/4

NJPW 4/13/07
Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi ****1/4

Dragon Gate 4/17/07
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid, BxB Hulk, Anthony W. Mori & Matt Sydal vs. Magnitude Kishiwada, Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi, Gamma, Cyber Kong & Jack Evans ****1/4

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Liverpool
Samoa Joe vs. Nigel McGuinness ****1/4

PWG Giant Size Annual #4
Roderick Strong & PAC vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 8/19/07
Takeshi Morishima vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4

ROH Glory By Honor VI Night Two
Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima ****1/4

PWG Holy Diver Down
Kevin Steen vs. PAC ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/24/07
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Rocky Romero & Taiji Ishimori ****1/4

Dragon Gate Infinity #64
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka & Ryo Saito vs. SHINGO, BxB Hulk & Cyber Kong ****1/4

NJPW 10/8/07
Ryusuke Taguchi vs. Minoru ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 10/27/07
MushiKing Terry vs. Yoshinobu Kanemaru ****1/4

WWE Survivor Series '07
Batista vs. The Undertaker ****1/4

CHIKARA The Sordid Perils Of Everyday Existence
Chris Hero vs. Equinox ****1/4

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Finale
SHINGO & Naruki Doi vs. Roderick Strong & Davey Richards ****1/4

CHIKARA Cibernetico & Robin
Cheech & Cloudy vs. Jimmy & Colin Olsen ****1/4

ROH All-Star Extravaganza III
CIMA, Ryo Saito, Susumu Yokosuka & Dragon Kid vs. Austin Aries, Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious & Rocky Romero ****-****1/4

NJPW G-1 Climax '07 8/5/07
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Shinsuke Nakamura ****-****1/4

WWE Vengeance '07
Edge vs. Batista ****-****1/4

ROH Live in Toyko
Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness II ****-****1/4

ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe ****-****1/4

IWA-MS Sunday Bloody Sunday
Necro Butcher vs. Masada ****-****1/4

NJPW LOCK UP 11/24/07
Tomohiro Ishii vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ****-****1/4

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Dayton
Roderick Strong vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. M-Dogg 20 vs. Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO vs. Pelle Primeau ****-****1/4

CHIKARA Rey de Voladores
Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli ****-****1/4

ROH Fighting Spirit
El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. Jay Briscoe & Erick Stevens & Then Mark Briscoe ****-****1/4

NJPW 7/6/07
Yuji Nagata vs. Togi Makabe ****-****1/4

ZERO1-MAX Fire Festival 7/16/07
Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ****-****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
Low Ki vs. Davey Richards ****-****1/4

ROH Live in Toyko
Naomichi Marufuji, Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal, Ricky Marvin & Atsushi Aoki ****-****1/4

WWE Backlash '07
Batista vs. The Undertaker ****-****1/4

WWE Wrestlemania 23
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels ****-****1/4

King of Europe Cup '07 Night Two
Nigel McGuinness vs. Doug Williams ****-****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
El Generico vs. PAC ****-****1/4

WWE Backlash '07
John Cena vs. Edge vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton ****-****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 10/27/07
D'Lo Brown & Buchanan vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Takeshi Sugiura ****-****1/4

ROH Manhattan Mayhem II
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico ****-****1/4

PWG Guitarmageddon II: Armoryageddon
El Generico & Quicksilver vs. Roderick Strong & Davey Richards ****-****1/4

IPW: UK Pre-Show 4/28/07
El Generico vs. PAC ****

SHIMMER Vol. 9
Amazing Kong vs. MsChif ****

WWE Wrestlemania 23
Batista vs. The Undertaker I ****

NJPW 10/08/07
Hiroyoshi Tenzan vs Hirooki Goto ****

ROH Battle of St. Paul
Takeshi Morishima vs. Austin Aries ****

PWG Battle of Los Angeles '07 Night One
Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Dragon Kid & Sumusu Yokosuka ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: NYC
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima ****

Dragon Gate 9/22/07
Ryo Saito & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Keni'chiro Arai & Taku Iwasa ****

Pro Wrestling NOAH 8/25/07
Jun Akiyama vs. Go Shiozaki ****

NJPW 2/18/07
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Koji Kanemoto ****

ROH Glory By Honor VI Night Two
Claudio Castagnoli vs. Naomichi Marufuji ****

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
Roderick Strong vs. Rocky Romero ****

Pro Wrestling NOAH 9/21/07
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Naruki Doi & Genki Horiguchi ****

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki II ****

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07
Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****

ROH Glory By Honor VI Night One
Nigel McGuinness vs. Chris Hero ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale
Samoa Joe vs. Homicide ****

ROH Supercard of Honor II
Roderick Strong vs. Austin Aries ****

IWA-MS HURT 2007
Roderick Strong vs. Low Ki ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Philly
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Chicago
Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****

Pro Wrestling NOAH 12/2/07
Naomichi Marufuji vs. Takeshi Morishima ****

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
Kaz Hayashi vs. Alex Shelley ****

IWA-MS It's Gotta Be The Shoes
Chuck Taylor vs. Low Ki ****

ROH Fight At The Roxbury
Nigel McGuinness vs. Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Mike Quackenbush ****

ROH Fight At The Roxbury
Kevin Steen vs. Mark Briscoe **** 

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Liverpool
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO & Naruki Doi ****

Dragon Gate Wrestle JAM 2 ???
Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Jimmy Rave & Muscle Gang vs. CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Dragon Kid & Matt Sydal vs. SHINGO, Cyber Kong, El Generico & Jack Evans ****

FIP New Years Classic '07
Roderick Strong & Jack Evans vs. SHINGO & Jimmy Rave ****

TNA Sacrifice '07
Chris Harris vs. James Storm ****

PWG Battle of Los Angeles '07 Night Three
Nigel McGuinness vs. El Generico ****

PWG 70|30
Alex Shelley vs. Rocky Romero ****

ROH Driven
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico ****

WWE Great American Bash '07
John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley ****

WWE New Year's Revolution '07
Randy Orton & Edge vs. Triple H & Shawn Michaels ****

CHIKARA Time Will Prove Everything
Eddie Kingston, Ruckus, Joker & Sabian vs. Hallowicked, Worker, Solider & Fire Ant ****

Pro Wrestling NOAH 6/3/07
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Taku Iwasa & Kenichiro Arai ****

AJPW 3/30/07
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Satoshi Kojima ****

PWG Battle of Los Angeles '07 Night Three
CIMA vs. Roderick Strong vs. El Generico ****

ROH Survival of The Fittest '07
Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Austin Aries vs. Roderick Strong vs. Rocky Romero vs. Human Tornado ****
*​


----------



## Honor™

Havent watched much wrestling this year, especially since the Benoit tragedy. 

Current MOTY is Shelly & Sabin VS Briscoes in ROH at ****3/4, followed by Umaga VS Cena from the rumble at ****1/2

Im downloading Driven featuring the much hyped Danielson VS Nigel match. I am interested to see if they can top their ***** Unified match. Thats a tall order.


----------



## antoniomare007

just saw Driven, outstanding PPV 

Nigel vs Dragon = ***** or at least ****3/4, you can't rate this match lower than that. 

never thought this two could do something similar (even better maybe?? i would have to watch it again though...) to their Unified match


----------



## Honor™

Just finished watching Driven and that was one hell of a show.

Danielson proved that he is god, and everyone on the card performed very well.

The opening tag match was a fun spot fest. ***1/2

Sydal VS Claudio --- ***1/4 (Unbelievable that they didnt screw anything up.)

BJ Whitmer VS Marafuji --- ***

Squash was fine. Made Albright look like a killer

Briscoes VS Steen & Genechiro --- ***3/4

Rave VS Morishima --- ** (For getting the point accross)

Danielson VS Nigel --- ****3/4 (a shade under their Unified match). I loved the "This is wrestling" chant on another note. Is that what ROH crowds are chanting these days?

Great stuff all around.


----------



## Blasko

Honor™ said:


> Danielson VS Nigel --- ****3/4 (a shade under their Unified match). I loved the "This is wrestling" chant on another note. Is that what ROH crowds are chanting these days?


 They chant _anything_.


----------



## Homicide_187

Honor™ said:


> Just finished watching Driven and that was one hell of a show.
> 
> Danielson proved that he is god, and everyone on the card performed very well.
> 
> The opening tag match was a fun spot fest. ***1/2
> 
> Sydal VS Claudio --- ***1/4 (Unbelievable that they didnt screw anything up.)
> 
> BJ Whitmer VS Marafuji --- ***
> 
> Squash was fine. Made Albright look like a killer
> 
> Briscoes VS Steen & Genechiro --- ***3/4
> 
> Rave VS Morishima --- ** (For getting the point accross)
> 
> Danielson VS Nigel --- ****3/4 (a shade under their Unified match). I loved the "This is wrestling" chant on another note. Is that what ROH crowds are chanting these days?
> 
> Great stuff all around.


I'm seriously thinking about giving the main event the full *****.


----------



## Sephiroth

Honor™ said:


> Is that what ROH crowds are chanting these days?


we chanted "Fuck This Guy" during Man Up when The Briscoes were getting in the face of some guy who was being the biggest asshole ever. he was the only guy doing Benoit chants and saying all this shit about the women and The Briscoes. we all wanted him to die.


----------



## watts63

*ROH Driven*
Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness ****1/2 (Would Have Gave It ****1/2-****3/4 if Sinclair didn't count to three in the ending).

*ROH Driven*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico ****


----------



## KingKicks

Just watched Driven.

Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuiness - ****3/4

Jay and Mark Briscoe vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico - ****


----------



## slaper

Danielson vs Nigel from Driven PPV has just topped the Whitmer/Jacobs cage match as my MOTY. Two very different matches but both are incredible. Thats why I love ROH I guess.


----------



## watts63

*IPW: UK Pre-Show 4/28/07*
El Generico vs. PAC ****

It was just like their match on PWG ASW V Night One, including a botch ending. Generico took a nasty bump when PAC did the Dragonrana.

EDIT: Another Great Match in the UK:

*King of Europe Cup '07 Night Two*
Nigel McGuinness vs. Doug Williams ****-****1/4


----------



## arjun14626rko

watts63 said:


> I thought Edge vs. Orton was very good but not even a **** match to me.



Really? Obviously I do not watch as much wrestling as you do from various promotions, and I do not have your wrestling knowledge, but I thought that was a sure-fire **** from every critic. The match had months of storyline to it, and the match proved to be a nice culmination to it. Everyone probably figured Orton would lose, but there were many times where I thought Orton might win. My heart rate changed pace during the match a few times.


----------



## Modified Cravate

Cheech/Cloudy vs. The Olsen Twins from CHIKARA: Cibernetico y Robin 2007.
**** 1/4.


----------



## Blasko

Modified Cravate said:


> Cheech/Cloudy vs. The Olsen Twins from CHIKARA: Cibernetico y Robin 2007.
> **** 1/4.


 Sorry, but I find that somewhat hard to believe.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Basically every report puts it in Chikkys top 3 from 07.


----------



## Honor™

Homicide_187 said:


> I'm seriously thinking about giving the main event the full *****.


Its a fair call, and i wouldnt argue it. But for me, the match had to be better than their Unified match, and i think it just quite didnt get there


----------



## El Conquistador

_ROH Driven: Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness_ -- ******'s*

Five fucking stars, seriously. The ending was the most intense exchange I've ever seen in a wrestling match and I really bought into. Earlier in the match, I wasn't feeling how fake some of the moves looked, one being that strangle hold Danielson locked on Nigel. Could the crowd be any more annoying either? Highly doubt it.

But back to the positives and why I'm giving this encounter *****'s. The exchanges at the end, the intensity, technical prowess by both men, commentary (yes, it was actually good this time and I loved all the details given by Prazak and Leonard), and of course the different paces set during the match. Didn't drag as much as the Unified match and I enjoyed it this time around a lot more.

Absolutely incredible. Those two just feed off each other, I've never seen anything like it.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Danielson vs. McGuinness - Driven, **** 3/4 - MOTY so far.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

M.W. said:


> _ROH Driven: Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness_ -- ******'s*
> 
> Five fucking stars, seriously. The ending was the most intense exchange I've ever seen in a wrestling match and I really bought into. Earlier in the match, I wasn't feeling how fake some of the moves looked, one being that strangle hold Danielson locked on Nigel. Could the crowd be any more annoying either? Highly doubt it.
> 
> But back to the positives and why I'm giving this encounter *****'s. The exchanges at the end, the intensity, technical prowess by both men, commentary (yes, it was actually good this time and I loved all the details given by Prazak and Leonard), and of course the different paces set during the match. Didn't drag as much as the Unified match and I enjoyed it this time around a lot more.
> 
> Absolutely incredible. Those two just feed off each other, I've never seen anything like it.


I don't understand how you can point out a flaw within a match while giving it *****

Just saying.


Anyway, finally got around to watching both Backlash main events.

WHC - Undertaker (c) vs. Batista - Last Man Standing

They kept it simple, with lots of brawling and plain old beatdowns which really plays to the strengths of both guys. It strikes me that Batista is more interesting playing the underdog than the dominant champ, too. Taker did a great job of controlling him and selling frustration at his inability to put him down. The part where he sat down on the ring steps and just waited for the count was a great example, as was the "What the fuck?" look on his face when Batista got up. For his part, Dave actually did a terrific job selling his knee as well as timing his comebacks perfectly. The end result was a great match with a nice closing stretch that had people buying into the false finishes big time. The draw was a bit cliche, and way too obviously trying to keep Batista strong when a loss wouldn't have really hurt him here, but everything leading up to the finish was pretty snazzy. ****1/4


WWE Title - John Cena (c) vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton vs. Edge

This one worked well for what it was, providing almost nonstop action and paying attention to the massive amount of history between all the participants. They built up the suspense nicely and had all sorts of alliances being made and broken as well as a ton of great nearfalls along the way. The finishing sequence was fantastic stuff too, timed and sold to perfection. ****1/4

Hard to say which one I liked better, but I'll give a slight edge to Undertaker and Batista, if only because I was expecting it less.


----------



## watts63

Is it funny how bad the WWE has been but they are still able to put up MOTYCs especially early this year?


----------



## Sephiroth

watts63 said:


> Is it funny how bad the WWE has been but they are still able to put up MOTYCs especially early this year?


yeah, the months from from January to May are usually the prime months for "good" shit since January to March-April is the build to WM and that's the time when the writers actually "try" and not pull shit out of their asses and just throw it on paper. April-May usually get the benefit of having some good matchups building off of it that lead to Backlash


----------



## watts63

Sephiroth said:


> yeah, the months from from January to May are usually the prime months for "good" shit since January to March-April is the build to WM and that's the time when the writers actually "try" and not pull shit out of their asses and just throw it on paper. April-May usually get the benefit of having some good matchups building off of it that lead to Backlash


Yeah. John Cena & Batista had more great matches than TNA all year so far & that is just sad.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

WWE has been fine lately. I'd actually say it's the best balance between good wrestling and sports entertainment that it's been in years. 

It's not the best product ever, but it's fairly fun, harmless, and well rounded. While I admit, I'm not going out of my way to watch it usually, I find I'm rarely frustrated when I do which is a big step up from previous years.

TNA on the other hand, has been dogshit.


----------



## El Conquistador

TheUnholyDragon said:


> I don't understand how you can point out a flaw within a match while giving it *****
> 
> Just saying.
> 
> 
> Anyway, finally got around to watching both Backlash main events.
> 
> WHC - Undertaker (c) vs. Batista - Last Man Standing
> 
> They kept it simple, with lots of brawling and plain old beatdowns which really plays to the strengths of both guys. It strikes me that Batista is more interesting playing the underdog than the dominant champ, too. Taker did a great job of controlling him and selling frustration at his inability to put him down. The part where he sat down on the ring steps and just waited for the count was a great example, as was the "What the fuck?" look on his face when Batista got up. For his part, Dave actually did a terrific job selling his knee as well as timing his comebacks perfectly. The end result was a great match with a nice closing stretch that had people buying into the false finishes big time. The draw was a bit cliche, and way too obviously trying to keep Batista strong when a loss wouldn't have really hurt him here, but everything leading up to the finish was pretty snazzy. ****1/4
> 
> 
> WWE Title - John Cena (c) vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton vs. Edge
> 
> This one worked well for what it was, providing almost nonstop action and paying attention to the massive amount of history between all the participants. They built up the suspense nicely and had all sorts of alliances being made and broken as well as a ton of great nearfalls along the way. The finishing sequence was fantastic stuff too, timed and sold to perfection. ****1/4
> 
> Hard to say which one I liked better, but I'll give a slight edge to Undertaker and Batista, if only because I was expecting it less.


Just because I disliked the crowd doesn't mean the match can't receive *****'s. Actually, the Philly crowd was to into it. Rather than chanting "please don't tap" whenever somebody locked in a submission hold or "let's go Dragon, let's go Nigel" back and forth repeatedly, they should have sat back and enjoyed the match while it was unfolding.

Nigel & Dragon worked magic. That was as close to a perfect match I've seen all year. Way better than KENTA/Dragon III and I actually prefered this encounter over their Unified, which I gave ****3/4.


----------



## -GP-

M.W. said:


> Way better than KENTA/Dragon III


Wouldn't say "way better" myself...they were pretty much on the same level of greatness...
I think i give KENTA/Danielson the edge though...not sure why, i just think they clicked a bit better together.
I'll have to watch them both again and get back to you on that though


----------



## Legend

*TNA*
Destination X: Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe - **** 1/2
Lockdown: Lethal Lockdown - **** 1/4
Sacrifice: James Storm vs. Chris Harris - **** 1/4
Slammiversary: King Of The Mountain - **** 1/4
No Surrender: Kurt Angle vs. Jay Lethal - ****

*WWE*
New Years Revolution: Degeneration X vs. Rated RKO - ****
Royal Rumble: John Cena vs. Umaga - **** 1/4
SmackDown!: Finlay vs. The Undertaker - ****
Wrestlemania: Batista vs. The Undertaker - **** 1/4
Wrestlemania: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - ****
SmackDown!: Chris Benoit vs. MVP - ****
Raw: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - ****
Backlash: Batista vs. The Undertaker II - **** 1/4
Backlash: John Cena vs. Randy Orton vs. Edge vs. Shawn Michaels - **** 1/4
Raw: Edge vs. Randy Orton - ****
One Night Stand: The Hardys vs. WGTT Ladder Match - ****
Vengeance: Batista vs. Edge III - **** 1/4
Great American Bash: John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley - ****


----------



## mobyomen

I can't say much about Dragon vs McGuiness because I haven't seen that match yet and I do love Ring of Honor. But I'll go out on a limb and say that the best matches that have aired on TV so far have been either CM Punk vs John Morrison from ECW (where punk wins) or Cena vs HBK Wrestlemania rematch on RAW. Definetely the best 2 TV matches and I would put CM Punk vs John Morrison in the MOTY catagory. The crowd was so into the match and with the all false finishes, I was jumping up and down watch it at home on TV. 

I'll also suggest ECW's Extreme Rules 8 Man Tag match the Tuesday night after Wrestlemania for best TV match of the year. It was a classic hardcore match.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

M.W. said:


> Just because I disliked the crowd doesn't mean the match can't receive *****'s. Actually, the Philly crowd was to into it. Rather than chanting "please don't tap" whenever somebody locked in a submission hold or "let's go Dragon, let's go Nigel" back and forth repeatedly, they should have sat back and enjoyed the match while it was unfolding.
> 
> Nigel & Dragon worked magic. That was as close to a perfect match I've seen all year. Way better than KENTA/Dragon III and I actually prefered this encounter over their Unified, which I gave ****3/4.


I was actually referring to this...



M.W.Earlier in the match said:


> ...as something like that would be enough to knock it down from ***** for me. In my opinion, a ***** should be good enough to keep you absolutely hooked all the way through, rather than have you kind of lost at the start then going nuts at the end.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

I'd edit, but this is a completely different point.

Mark Briscoe vs. Jay Briscoe - RoH FYF: Finale

Really fun and almost hit par with their first RoH match, despite being entirely different. I loved how things started out as a fun exhibition and quickly but naturally turned into a hate-filled, high impact slugfest. Tons of big moves and vicious strikes, more hate than in most blood feuds, and a nice build to all of it. My only problem is that since they loaded the middle with nearfalls, they went for the overkill at the end, but in selling the exhaustion, things sort of just fell apart. It ended up becoming spot-rest-spot-rest until the finish, and I also did NOT buy the double KO. Still a great match, but the weak closing stretch keeps it from matching up to the original. ****


----------



## PulseGlazer

TheUnholyDragon said:


> I'd edit, but this is a completely different point.
> 
> Mark Briscoe vs. Jay Briscoe - RoH FYF: Finale
> 
> Really fun and almost hit par with their first RoH match, despite being entirely different. I loved how things started out as a fun exhibition and quickly but naturally turned into a hate-filled, high impact slugfest. Tons of big moves and vicious strikes, more hate than in most blood feuds, and a nice build to all of it. My only problem is that since they loaded the middle with nearfalls, they went for the overkill at the end, but in selling the exhaustion, things sort of just fell apart. It ended up becoming spot-rest-spot-rest until the finish, and I also did NOT buy the double KO. Still a great match, but the weak closing stretch keeps it from matching up to the original. ****


I like their 1 Year Anniversary match a lot better than HIB match. Why do you prefer the HIB?


----------



## Sephiroth

PulseGlazer said:


> I like their 1 Year Anniversary match a lot better than HIB match. Why do you prefer the HIB?


have either of you guys seen their first singles encounter in CZW?


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

PulseGlazer said:


> I like their 1 Year Anniversary match a lot better than HIB match. Why do you prefer the HIB?


To answer both you and the poster after you, I haven't seen it.

I have it on the Best of the Briscoes DVD too...just haven't got to it.

Common opinion is that it's not as good though. You're the first to say otherwise that I've seen.


Also, they had a REALLY shitty match in some almost-backyard fed in 2005. It was their first match back after Mark's injury and they had completely lost it, just throwing out big spots and weapon shots with no rhyme or reason.

Thank god they took a few months before returning to RoH...


----------



## watts63

You can found this match on the indy section now:

*ROH Manhattan Mayhem II*
Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson ****1/2

---------------------------------------------------

*My New Top 10*

*ROH Driven
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA III ****3/4

ROH Good Times, Great Memories
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****3/4

CZW Out With The Old, In With The New
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****3/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/03/07
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****1/2-****3/4

ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe ****1/2

Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/21/07
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****1/2

ROH Respect is Earned
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal & Claudio Castagnoli ****1/2

WWE Royal Rumble '07
John Cena vs. Umaga ****1/2

ROH Manhattan Mayhem II
Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson ****1/2

ROH Good Times, Great Memories
Takeshi Morishima vs. SHINGO ****1/2*​


----------



## Sephiroth

Manhatten Mayhem II - Takeshi Morishima(c) vs. Bryan Danielson

WOW! at about 4-5 minutes into the match Morishima just decks him with a right to the face and since that spot, Danielson is favoring the eyes and looks like he's in real pain. i have so much respect for Danielson after seeing him tough it out for that almost 25 minute match with the eye injury.

i loved the story being told with Danielson trying to take out the legs and keep the big guy from being too mobile. the crowd was absolutely fucking great throughout the match and i loved the huge pop when Morishima finally fell after Danielson put tons of punishment to his left thigh/leg.

lots of great stuff in this match. if you don't buy this DVD, but intend to order the 3rd PPV, make sure to watch this match at least before their rematch at the PPV. their match at Man Up just means a whole lot more now that i see they played off their first encounter and WHY Morishima got the win like he did (not gonna spoil it for you guys).

Danielson is a monster. he's a fucking tough SOB and truly one of the best wrestlers today. SEE THIS MATCH NOW!

***** 3/4*


----------



## ROH

^ Thanks for that, Sephy.

*My Current MOTY*

*ROH Driven: Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness* - *******

Easily the best match all year. Perfect pacing, storytelling, intensity, this match had everything which makes pro wrestling awesome in it.


----------



## Penishead

ROH said:


> ^ Thanks for that, Sephy.
> 
> *My Current MOTY*
> 
> *ROH Driven: Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness* - *******
> 
> Easily the best match all year. Perfect pacing, storytelling, intensity, this match had everything which makes pro wrestling awesome in it.


****3/4. Nigel's bad logic keeps it from being five star imo.

Is the Mori vs Danielson match in the media section in Japanese commentary or English commentary? ~_~


----------



## ROH

Penishead said:


> ****3/4. Nigel's bad logic keeps it from being five star imo.


Oh yeah, Nigel's *bad* logic of when he was in trouble/physically hurt he would try to put Dragon away as quickly as he could with anything he could (lariats, half Boston crab, etc).


----------



## Penishead

Yeah, but where the fuck does the half boston crab fit in so late in the match? A armbar or another submission which effects the arm would make more sense since there was prior work on the arm and Danielson's shoulder was previously injured.


----------



## ROH

Penishead said:


> Yeah, but where the fuck does the half boston crab fit in so late in the match? A armbar or another submission which effects the arm would make more sense since there was prior work on the arm and Danielson's shoulder was previously injured.


I see where you're coming from now, but the logic of the half Boston crab was perfect. Nigel knew he was in trouble and had to end Dragon quick before he could recover. Instead of resting, Nigel did the first thing he could think of - slapped on the first hold he could think of. He was too tired and desperate to remember about the earlier armwork of anything.


----------



## Sephiroth

Penishead said:


> ****3/4. Nigel's bad logic keeps it from being five star imo.
> 
> Is the Mori vs Danielson match in the media section in Japanese commentary or English commentary? ~_~


Japanese commentary. it's worth watching just to hear the announcers go "ooooooooooooooooh Final Countdown"


----------



## PulseGlazer

ROH said:


> I see where you're coming from now, but the logic of the half Boston crab was perfect. Nigel knew he was in trouble and had to end Dragon quick before he could recover. Instead of resting, Nigel did the first thing he could think of - slapped on the first hold he could think of. He was too tired and desperate to remember about the earlier armwork of anything.


I'm fine with the half crab, it isn't perfect, but it's timed well. I relaly had a problem with Nigel forgetting the backwork for a 3-5 minute period before rememberring to sell it again. It's REAL minor, but keeps it from 5* for me. Still MOTY.


----------



## ROH

One of the best matches from ROH this year, definate MOTYC:

*ROH Manhattan Mayhem 2: ROH World Title Match: Takeshi Morishima (c) vs Bryan Danielson - ****1/2*

Wanted to give this higher but just cant. The story was among the smartest stuff I've ever seen in wrestling. I could write a whole paragraph on it, but here it is in short:

Dragon immobilises Morishima with kicks to the thigh, so Dragon can hit all his big stuff easier. In the end, he can't immobilise Morishima enough, and Shima takes him OUT with a running lariat. Backdrop Driver follows and the match is over.

Never really slow, hotr crowd, Dragon felt like a relly legit challenger; amazing match.


----------



## Sephiroth

i absolutely love the moment in the final 5 minutes when Morishima just falls straight down when Dragon works the leg for a second because Dragon has murdered his left leg/thigh. the whole match and the leg work built to that, but sadly for Dragon, it wasn't effective enough to keep him down. great moment. love the crowd pop when he falls.


----------



## antoniomare007

Sephiroth said:


> Japanese commentary. it's worth watching just to hear the announcers go "ooooooooooooooooh Final Countdown"


:lmao so true....


----------



## ROH

Sephiroth said:


> i absolutely love the moment in the final 5 minutes when Morishima just falls straight down when Dragon works the leg for a second because Dragon has murdered his left leg/thigh. the whole match and the leg work built to that, but sadly for Dragon, it wasn't effective enough to keep him down. great moment. love the crowd pop when he falls.


Completely agreed. Like you said, it was sad the ULTIMATE UNPROTECTED STOMPS TO THE FACE OF DEATH~! weren't enough for Dragon.


----------



## El Conquistador

_ROH 8.10.07 Claudio Castagnoli vs. Takeshi Morishima_ -- ***1/2

Way too many miscommunications and there just seemed to be a lack of chemistry. There were a few examples that I could mention but the one that sticks out the most is Claudio ducking that lariat on the wrong side and Morishima having to throw his elbow to cover up that mistake. Whether or not it was Claudio's fault, it wasn't the type of beginning either men were looking for.

Good match for what it was worth, but it doesn't rank anywhere close to my elite MOTYC's. Oh yeah, I couldn't help but laugh at the fans chanting "match of the year" before it even ended.


----------



## MrPaiMei

From the indy DVD thread... I did a write up on Claudio-Morishima there too.

Danielson vs. Nigel - So so great. Intense, really focused, great build, awesome finish. ONly thing keeping it from 5* to me is that, well, it's not so much that the winner isn't in doubt, it's that it doesn't really matter. The fans didn't know it was #1 contender, so instead of cheering wrestlersm they kinda chanted and reacted as to look good on TV. I don't know if what I'm sayingv makes sense, whatever. Plus, while I'm not sure which match I prefer, Unified definatly felt more epic and that finishing stretch I can play in my mind with no hesitation. Great fucking match though. ****1/2-****3/4


Morishima vs. Dragon - WOW. This match is fucking awesome. It starts, and you get the feeling that it's gonna be speedy Dragon dancing round Morishima, then BOOM! Morishima knocks him the fuck out and it's a fight for survival for Dragon. Dragon survives to the 15 minute mark, and starts throwing BOMBS to close it out. But, cause hes hurt, every time Morishima hits anything, even minor (like a boot), he's knocked the fuck out. ANd eventually, he's got no bombs left, and a backdrop driver finishes. AWESOME match, #1 or 2 for the year. ****3/4-*****


----------



## watts63

M.W. said:


> _ROH 8.10.07 Claudio Castagnoli vs. Takeshi Morishima_ -- ***1/2
> 
> Way too many miscommunications and there just seemed to be a lack of chemistry. There were a few examples that I could mention but the one that sticks out the most is Claudio ducking that lariat on the wrong side and Morishima having to throw his elbow to cover up that mistake. Whether or not it was Claudio's fault, it wasn't the type of beginning either men were looking for.
> 
> Good match for what it was worth, but it doesn't rank anywhere close to my elite MOTYC's. Oh yeah, I couldn't help but laugh at the fans chanting "match of the year" before it even ended.


That match was very overrated & Sinlcair fucking up twice really pissed me off.


----------



## Blasko

Is it just me or could Shima have sold the leg better during Shima/Dragon? 

Aside from a few moments, he no sold it.


----------



## watts63

*NJPW 7/6/07*
Yuji Nagata vs. Togi Makabe ****-****1/4

There was this one sick moment that Nagata was forearming the hell out of Makabe which cause him to spill a lot of blood & it never slow down for 10 minutes straight. What a war.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Did you see Nagata vs. Koshinaka? It's super fun.


----------



## watts63

MrPaiMei said:


> Did you see Nagata vs. Koshinaka? It's super fun.


Nah, when did that match happen?

*NJPW 2/18/07*
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Koji Kanemoto ****

Great match but would have been higher if it wasn't for a few (I thnk two) botches.


----------



## MrPaiMei

May, I think. It was his first defense.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

This is surprising?

I know he gets a lot of online flack, but I've always loved Nagata, right back to the first match I saw with him (vs. Ultimo Dragon from WCW Halloween Havoc 1998)


----------



## watts63

TheUnholyDragon said:


> I know he gets a lot of online flack, but I've always loved Nagata, right back to the first match I saw with him (vs. Ultimo Dragon from WCW Halloween Havoc 1998)


Yeah I don't know why. That's was the 4th match I ever seen him in (Hanahashi ('06 **** & '07 ****1/4), MiSu (****1/4) & Makabe. Nagata is awesome.


----------



## Sephiroth

ROH said:


> it was sad the ULTIMATE UNPROTECTED STOMPS TO THE FACE OF DEATH~! weren't enough for Dragon.


just wait till you see the 3rd PPV, you'll mark out for the continuity ...or be disappointed. either way, it's GOOD that you've seen their first encounter before their PPV encounter.


----------



## McQueen

TheUnholyDragon said:


> This is surprising?
> 
> I know he gets a lot of online flack, but I've always loved Nagata, right back to the first match I saw with him (vs. Ultimo Dragon from WCW Halloween Havoc 1998)


I can understand the flack Nagata gets too a point, but I do enjoy the man's matches 95% of the time. I remember some of the Ultimo/Nagata encounters as well and I remember being a young fan and hating Nagata as a heel.

That and I mark the **** out for his theme music, I dunno I just love it for some reason.


----------



## PulseGlazer

**** 3/4- ***** for Danielson vs. Morishima. That or Dragon vs. Nigel is MOTY so far. The only thing preventing either from the full 5 is a few minutes of not selling. Not enough to really detract since the selling is still effective, but just enough to not be perfection.


----------



## El Conquistador

_ROH 8.25.07 Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima -- ****3/4_

Seriously struggling with a rating for this one. I enjoyed it every bit as much as Nigel/Dragon (which I rated *****'s) but I felt this match lacked something. There's still a possibility I'll alter the rating after my second viewing, but ****3/4 seems right for now.


----------



## Spartanlax

Toss me on the ****3/4 bus for Shima/Dragon. Glazer and Blasko pretty much said it best; a few moments of no-selling from Morishima brought it down just a tad. Although, Shima really shouldn't be selling as much as someone like Aries or Danielson; he's built like a tank and wrestles like one too. He absorbs punishment to an extent due to his size and strength.


----------



## Blasko

Spartanlax said:


> Toss me on the ****3/4 bus for Shima/Dragon. Glazer and Blasko pretty much said it best; a few moments of no-selling from Morishima brought it down just a tad. Although, Shima really shouldn't be selling as much as someone like Aries or Danielson; he's built like a tank and wrestles like one too. He absorbs punishment to an extent due to his size and strength.


 I pondered on that for a while, but came to this. 

No matter who you are, when someone kicks your leg for over 10 minutes, you HAVE to feel it. Danielson even went as far to use a forgien object on Shima and he no sold it. It's just logic.

Also, Danielson getting away with that chair shot REALLY urked the hell out of me. He should have been DQ'ed on the spot. That's another reason why it didn't get anything above the 3/4's mark. 

ROH REFS ARE RACIST!!!


----------



## Spartanlax

DQ'ed on the spot? Dude, it's an ROH World Title match; refs relax the rules a bit in that situation. 

And Shima DID sell the leg, just not as good as he should have.


----------



## RPC

Yeah I saw in the Shima/Castagnoli match he hit him with a steel chair right in front of the ref too. I can understand why ROH wouldn't wanna end there main events with a DQ


----------



## Blasko

Using anything illegal in a regular match up while the ref is watching just urks the living hell out of myself.

And Shima sold the leg, yes. But only until the final minutes of the match. Danielson spent 3/4's of the match working over his leg, he should have shown it atlest a tad more.


----------



## watts63

Seriously tho, how many matches in ROH period, has ever ended in DQ? It's really rare.


----------



## Sephiroth

all you guys are gonna love the rematch even more since you've seen and understood the story of Mori/Dragon I

i'm even more excited about the Man Up PPV now


----------



## lizmark

Another MOTYC..

*IWA-EC Stiff Competition - Brain Damage vs. Necro Butcher* ****
(Its now in the indy media section) 


Cant wait for their match at Master of Pain.


----------



## casper-21

My Top 15:

1. *Bryan Daneilson - KENTA III - ROH*
2. Bryan Danielson - Nigel McGuinness - ROH Driven
3. Briscoes - Naruki Doi & Shingo I - ROH FYF Liverpool
4. Briscoes - Claudio Castagnoli & Matt Sydal - ROH Respect Is Earned
5. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori - Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi - NOAH
6. Jun Akiyama & Takeshi Rikio - Yoshihiro Takayama & Takashi Sugiura - NOAH
7. Jay Briscoe - Mark Briscoe - ROH FYF Final
8. Bryan Danielson & Nigel McGuinness - Takeshi Morishima & Naomichi Marufuji - ROH United We Stand
9. Briscoes - Kevin Steen & El Generico - ROH Driven
10. El Generico - Pac - PWG ASW5
11. Briscoes - Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin - ROH Good Times Great Memories
12. CIMA, Pac, Susumu Yokosuka & Dragon Kid - Shingo, Cyber Kong, Jack Evans & El Generico - Dragon Gate 
13. Mike Quackenbush - Chris Hero - Chikara Aniversario
14. Bryan Danielson - Go Shiozaki - ROH Live in Japan
15. Hiroshi Tnahashi - Yuji Nagata I - NJPW
15. Yuji Nagata - Shinsuke Nakamura - NJPW G-1 Climax
15. Masato Tanaka - Daisuke Sekimoto - Zero-1 Fire Festival


----------



## PulseGlazer

casper-21 said:


> My Top 15:
> 
> 1. *Bryan Daneilson - KENTA III - ROH*
> 2. Bryan Danielson - Nigel McGuinness - ROH Driven
> 3. Briscoes - Naruki Doi & Shingo I - ROH FYF Liverpool
> 4. Briscoes - Claudio Castagnoli & Matt Sydal - ROH Respect Is Earned
> 5. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori - Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi - NOAH
> 6. Jun Akiyama & Takeshi Rikio - Yoshihiro Takayama & Takashi Sugiura - NOAH
> 7. Jay Briscoe - Mark Briscoe - ROH FYF Final
> 8. Bryan Danielson & Nigel McGuinness - Takeshi Morishima & Naomichi Marufuji - ROH United We Stand
> 9. Briscoes - Kevin Steen & El Generico - ROH Driven
> 10. El Generico - Pac - PWG ASW5
> 11. Briscoes - Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin - ROH Good Times Great Memories
> 12. CIMA, Pac, Susumu Yokosuka & Dragon Kid - Shingo, Cyber Kong, Jack Evans & El Generico - Dragon Gate
> 13. Mike Quackenbush - Chris Hero - Chikara Aniversario
> 14. Bryan Danielson - Go Shiozaki - ROH Live in Japan
> 15. Hiroshi Tnahashi - Yuji Nagata I - NJPW
> 15. Yuji Nagata - Shinsuke Nakamura - NJPW G-1 Climax
> 15. Masato Tanaka - Daisuke Sekimoto - Zero-1 Fire Festival


Your order irks me tono end. Briscoes Steenerico Driven isn't int he same league as Draggon vs. Go at the very least.


----------



## casper-21

IMHO they are in the same league.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

casper-21 said:


> My Top 15:
> 
> 1. *Bryan Daneilson - KENTA III - ROH*
> 2. Bryan Danielson - Nigel McGuinness - ROH Driven
> 3. Briscoes - Naruki Doi & Shingo I - ROH FYF Liverpool
> 4. Briscoes - Claudio Castagnoli & Matt Sydal - ROH Respect Is Earned
> 5. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori - Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi - NOAH
> 6. Jun Akiyama & Takeshi Rikio - Yoshihiro Takayama & Takashi Sugiura - NOAH
> 7. Jay Briscoe - Mark Briscoe - ROH FYF Final
> 8. Bryan Danielson & Nigel McGuinness - Takeshi Morishima & Naomichi Marufuji - ROH United We Stand
> 9. Briscoes - Kevin Steen & El Generico - ROH Driven
> 10. El Generico - Pac - PWG ASW5
> 11. Briscoes - Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin - ROH Good Times Great Memories
> 12. CIMA, Pac, Susumu Yokosuka & Dragon Kid - Shingo, Cyber Kong, Jack Evans & El Generico - Dragon Gate
> 13. Mike Quackenbush - Chris Hero - Chikara Aniversario
> 14. Bryan Danielson - Go Shiozaki - ROH Live in Japan
> 15. Hiroshi Tnahashi - Yuji Nagata I - NJPW
> 15. Yuji Nagata - Shinsuke Nakamura - NJPW G-1 Climax
> 15. Masato Tanaka - Daisuke Sekimoto - Zero-1 Fire Festival


Wow. I can't even figure out your favourite style of wrestling through this. Impressive.


----------



## Akira_Taue's_Beard

Makabe/Nagata is still my MOTY. Cena/Umaga is second.


----------



## bloodletting

Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima- 8/25 Manahtten Center. great great match


----------



## watts63

An old dog can still put on a great match:

*AJPW 3/30/07*
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Satoshi Kojima ****


----------



## KingKicks

*WWE No Mercy 2007 - Last Man Standing*
Triple H vs. Randy Orton - ****1/2

My new WWE MOTY.


----------



## Sephiroth

i really hope that match doesn't beat out Cena/Umaga as MOTY


----------



## Chicago_Nut

I'd definitely put up HHH/Orton up there now. It was great suspense, with nice drama and nice spots added in to the unpredictability of the match.


----------



## Blasko

watts63 said:


> An old dog can still put on a great match:


----------



## watts63

-Blasko- said:


>


As I can see, you have took it personally.


----------



## Sephiroth

-Blasko- said:


>


i know what you're thinking...Kojima isn't that old...

Kawada doesn't age, he's timeless. he'll be giving a Gamengiri to bitches in the year 3000


----------



## watts63

*WWE No Mercy '07*
Triple H vs. Randy Orton II ****1/4-****1/2


----------



## Saint Dick

It's hard to choose between HHH/Orton, Cena/Michaels and Cena/Umaga as WWE's MOTY. They're all in the ****1/4-****1/2 range.


----------



## SuperBrawl

I still think the Cena/Michaels from Raw just edges out HHH/Orton and Cena/Umaga for WWE moty, but they were all great matches so it's arguable.


----------



## KIG1

Call me an Orton mark but my initial rating for the Orton/HHH match is ****3/4


----------



## -Mystery-

WXW 16 Carat Gold Tournament - Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli - ****1/2


----------



## Saint Dick

After re-watching HHH/Orton I've settled on ****1/2.

imo:

1. Cena/Michaels - Raw (****1/2)
2. HHH/Orton - No Mercy (****1/2)
3. Cena/HBK/Edge/Orton - Backlash (****1/4)
4. Cena/Umaga - Royal Rumble (****1/4)
5. Batista/Taker - WrestleMania (****)


----------



## -Mystery-

DX/Rated RKO should be in the top 5, IMO.


----------



## StraightEdge

-Mystery- said:


> DX/Rated RKO should be in the top 5, IMO.


Yeah, Its defintally a WWE Top 5, Probably even the top 3.


----------



## -GP-

Did anybody else think of Nigel-Dragon from Driven when HHH-Orton did that rail spot...? 

Either way, yeah, definitely going to be neck and neck for WWE MOTY between Cena-Umaga and this for me. 
Cena-HBK from RAW was good, but not THAT good...


----------



## Saint Dick

-Mystery- said:


> DX/Rated RKO should be in the top 5, IMO.


I didn't like that match as much as most. It was going well until Trips tore his quad and Michaels did a good job there at the end but Orton running at Hunter with a chair and then turning around and running away was fucked up. I have it at ****, maybe I should re-watch it.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Ownage™ said:


> I didn't like that match as much as most. It was going well until Trips tore his quad and Michaels did a good job there at the end but Orton running at Hunter with a chair and then turning around and running away was fucked up. I have it at ****, maybe I should re-watch it.


I'm with you on that. 

The top 3 in WWE I've seen are either Umaga-Cena, the Backlash four way, or Cena-HBK (Mania). Beyond those two are a number of Cena matches, Punk vs. Nitro (the title change) and Taker-Batista Backlash match.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

PulseGlazer said:


> I'm with you on that.
> 
> The top 3 in WWE I've seen are either Umaga-Cena, the Backlash four way, or Cena-HBK (Mania). Beyond those two are a number of Cena matches, Punk vs. Nitro (the title change) and Taker-Batista Backlash match.


Gasp and shock.

Have I finally found someone else who prefers the Mania match to the super long Raw match?


----------



## PulseGlazer

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Gasp and shock.
> 
> Have I finally found someone else who prefers the Mania match to the super long Raw match?


Who doesn't? Mania is a better match. Raw is impressive moreso than especially good. I'd have to rewatch to break it down again, and I'm really not going to, but I checked once (I do for all American MOTYCs) and Mania is just superior. 

WWE doesn't have 1 of my top 10 American matches of the year though, maybe more. Hell their best isn't better than CZW's (King vs. Hero) and might not beat out Chikara (Quack vs. Hero) or PWG (Joe vs. Ki or Generico vs. Pac), or IWA-MS (King vs. Hero).


----------



## Saint Dick

The Raw rematch is way better than the Mania match as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Ownage™ said:


> The Raw rematch is way better than the Mania match as far as I'm concerned.


Explain away.


----------



## Saint Dick

PulseGlazer said:


> Explain away.


Great psychology, great selling, great atmosphere, great finish. Cena's no selling of Shawn's leg work at Mania brought down that match for me.


----------



## Sephiroth

Cena/HBK rematch was pretty much "going long for the sake of going long"

it's good tho that it was a great match regardless. they could have done a lot more in a shorter time if they tried tho.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Thanks for saving me the trouble Sephy.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Ownage™ said:


> Great psychology, great selling, great atmosphere, great finish. Cena's no selling of Shawn's leg work at Mania brought down that match for me.


Mania had better psychology and selling, with a hotter crowd and a better finish. And the legwork wasn't "no sold" at all. So you know, you might want to rethink that explanation.


Reposting my reviews from just after watching them back to back. (also found in my handy blog link down below)

I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with either my ratings or my reasons, but I feel justified in them, so feel free to debate, but don't expect to sway me otherwise.


Wrestlemania 23

WWE Title: John Cena © vs. Shawn Michaels

This match is the ultimate proof that John Cena is the best big match wrestler in the world today. They manage to establish a great story right from the beginning with Shawn coming in expecting to easily beat Cena. He can dodge his blows and Cena can’t match him on the mat. The thing is though, Cena is smart enough that he realizes this as well and manages to bait Shawn into making a mistake, which leads to him getting dumped. Shawn’s so frustrated that he got caught that he decides to bust out a big gun early in the Asai Moonsault. 

The legwork is something a lot of people have problems with, saying that it didn’t go anywhere or that it was spottily sold. The thing is, it fits perfectly. Shawn wasn’t looking to beat Cena with legwork. It was just a way to both dominate him for a while and play the better wrestler. While it’s true that Cena does more or less shrug it off, he sells it as though the only reason it was a serious problem was because Shawn kept working it and once he got a respite, he managed to shrug it off. Makes perfect sense.

It should be noted how well they build Cena’s punches. Shawn dodges them in the early going because he knows they’re Cena’s best shot. When Cena hits them throughout, they do more damage than a lot of Shawn’s carefully plotted work. Then when they get into the slug out near the end, Cena easily wins. One of those little stories which is done tremendously.

And of course, coming near the finish there’s the big moves. They do a good job showing how Cena and Michaels have each other well scouted, with several well done counters throughout. The Piledriver on the steps added so much to the match, since it’s a trick that hasn’t been seen in years and showed how desperate Michaels was to win. It also set up one of my favourite moments of the match, where Shawn goes through his usual finishing sequence thinking Cena’s beat already and gets NAILED on the Sweet Chin Music attempt. Great stuff.

The finisher kickouts weren’t really necessary, but they were fun. I liked how Cena managed to outsmart Shawn to get the FU but Shawn had to use a ref distraction to hit Sweet Chin Music. It’s also around this time that Cena’s superiority really shows. Shawn’s a one trick pony with the Sweet Chin Music. If that fails, his best option is to try it again. Cena goes for both a top rope FU and the STFU, and as he gets closer and closer it becomes obvious that Shawn has nothing left to stop him. When he goes for the FU and IMMEDIATELY grabs the STFU upon Shawn’s counter, there is no doubt left to me that Cena is by far the better wrestler and very much deserving of his win. Match of the year thus far, easily. ****3/4


WWE Raw: 04/23/07

John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels

Well, this one had some hype behind it. It’s interesting to see how they work the roles here. Cena isn’t taking the match all too seriously, viewing it as more of an exhibition since it’s not for the title and he’s beaten Shawn already. On the other hand, Shawn is taking this even more seriously than the Mania match, since a loss here means that he just can’t beat Cena and may as well get out of title contention.

Cena’s ability to outwrestle Shawn here as well as early attempts for the STFU are just great stuff. Both of them show Cena is completely in control and completely in Shawn’s head. They also show he’s been learning from past encounters and working on improving himself, which is good character work outside the match context as well. 

They work a nice story here within their roles. Shawn is super-intense because of his will to win, which is causing him to make stupid mistakes. That gives Cena the ability to control, but because he’s taking the match lightly at first, he doesn’t do more than basic holds and wear downs, which contributes greatly to the length of the match in a logical, natural way. 

It’s not until the second half where things really start to heat up. Cena only really loses control once, and only for a brief period of time. They work in a really nice spot where Shawn tunes up the band, then Cena goes to clothesline him like at Wrestlemania and Shawn sidesteps and gets a backslide. Building off past matches. That’s how it’s done kids. Shawn’s kickout of the FU is perfectly timed, especially in a TV environment where they’re RIGHT about at a commercial and they’ve been running a long time already. I’ll bet people seeing it live were SURE that was it.

The finishing sequence works really well too. Cena starts going nuts when he can’t seem to put Shawn away with anything, a large part of which can be attributed to his lax work early on. Shawn is fighting tooth and nail with everything he has, but still seems just behind Cena. The top rope legdrop Cena does while Shawn is standing is both awesome looking, and shows how determined Cena’s become to win. Still, his determination leads to desperation, causing him to make rare slips in the timing of his finisher use. When he put on the STFU, he had just spent a minute or so dragging Shawn into the ring. With that much rest time, Shawn managed to get the energy to escape the STFU. Ultimately, the same mistake costs him the match as he goes for an FU and Shawn catches him with his pants down, landing on his feet in an awesome counter and hitting Sweet Chin Music for the win. Another great match, proving once again just how good Cena is at storytelling in ring. The only thing that keeps it from being as good as Wrestlemania is the lack of intensity and the odd moment where it felt like they were going long just to go long. Still, great match. Especially for free TV. ****1/2


----------



## PulseGlazer

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Mania had better psychology and selling, with a hotter crowd and a better finish. And the legwork wasn't "no sold" at all. So you know, you might want to rethink that explanation.
> 
> 
> Reposting my reviews from just after watching them back to back. (also found in my handy blog link down below)
> 
> I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with either my ratings or my reasons, but I feel justified in them, so feel free to debate, but don't expect to sway me otherwise.
> 
> 
> Wrestlemania 23
> 
> WWE Title: John Cena © vs. Shawn Michaels
> 
> This match is the ultimate proof that John Cena is the best big match wrestler in the world today. They manage to establish a great story right from the beginning with Shawn coming in expecting to easily beat Cena. He can dodge his blows and Cena can’t match him on the mat. The thing is though, Cena is smart enough that he realizes this as well and manages to bait Shawn into making a mistake, which leads to him getting dumped. Shawn’s so frustrated that he got caught that he decides to bust out a big gun early in the Asai Moonsault.
> 
> The legwork is something a lot of people have problems with, saying that it didn’t go anywhere or that it was spottily sold. The thing is, it fits perfectly. Shawn wasn’t looking to beat Cena with legwork. It was just a way to both dominate him for a while and play the better wrestler. While it’s true that Cena does more or less shrug it off, he sells it as though the only reason it was a serious problem was because Shawn kept working it and once he got a respite, he managed to shrug it off. Makes perfect sense.
> 
> It should be noted how well they build Cena’s punches. Shawn dodges them in the early going because he knows they’re Cena’s best shot. When Cena hits them throughout, they do more damage than a lot of Shawn’s carefully plotted work. Then when they get into the slug out near the end, Cena easily wins. One of those little stories which is done tremendously.
> 
> And of course, coming near the finish there’s the big moves. They do a good job showing how Cena and Michaels have each other well scouted, with several well done counters throughout. The Piledriver on the steps added so much to the match, since it’s a trick that hasn’t been seen in years and showed how desperate Michaels was to win. It also set up one of my favourite moments of the match, where Shawn goes through his usual finishing sequence thinking Cena’s beat already and gets NAILED on the Sweet Chin Music attempt. Great stuff.
> 
> The finisher kickouts weren’t really necessary, but they were fun. I liked how Cena managed to outsmart Shawn to get the FU but Shawn had to use a ref distraction to hit Sweet Chin Music. It’s also around this time that Cena’s superiority really shows. Shawn’s a one trick pony with the Sweet Chin Music. If that fails, his best option is to try it again. Cena goes for both a top rope FU and the STFU, and as he gets closer and closer it becomes obvious that Shawn has nothing left to stop him. When he goes for the FU and IMMEDIATELY grabs the STFU upon Shawn’s counter, there is no doubt left to me that Cena is by far the better wrestler and very much deserving of his win. Match of the year thus far, easily. ****3/4
> 
> 
> WWE Raw: 04/23/07
> 
> John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels
> 
> Well, this one had some hype behind it. It’s interesting to see how they work the roles here. Cena isn’t taking the match all too seriously, viewing it as more of an exhibition since it’s not for the title and he’s beaten Shawn already. On the other hand, Shawn is taking this even more seriously than the Mania match, since a loss here means that he just can’t beat Cena and may as well get out of title contention.
> 
> Cena’s ability to outwrestle Shawn here as well as early attempts for the STFU are just great stuff. Both of them show Cena is completely in control and completely in Shawn’s head. They also show he’s been learning from past encounters and working on improving himself, which is good character work outside the match context as well.
> 
> They work a nice story here within their roles. Shawn is super-intense because of his will to win, which is causing him to make stupid mistakes. That gives Cena the ability to control, but because he’s taking the match lightly at first, he doesn’t do more than basic holds and wear downs, which contributes greatly to the length of the match in a logical, natural way.
> 
> It’s not until the second half where things really start to heat up. Cena only really loses control once, and only for a brief period of time. They work in a really nice spot where Shawn tunes up the band, then Cena goes to clothesline him like at Wrestlemania and Shawn sidesteps and gets a backslide. Building off past matches. That’s how it’s done kids. Shawn’s kickout of the FU is perfectly timed, especially in a TV environment where they’re RIGHT about at a commercial and they’ve been running a long time already. I’ll bet people seeing it live were SURE that was it.
> 
> The finishing sequence works really well too. Cena starts going nuts when he can’t seem to put Shawn away with anything, a large part of which can be attributed to his lax work early on. Shawn is fighting tooth and nail with everything he has, but still seems just behind Cena. The top rope legdrop Cena does while Shawn is standing is both awesome looking, and shows how determined Cena’s become to win. Still, his determination leads to desperation, causing him to make rare slips in the timing of his finisher use. When he put on the STFU, he had just spent a minute or so dragging Shawn into the ring. With that much rest time, Shawn managed to get the energy to escape the STFU. Ultimately, the same mistake costs him the match as he goes for an FU and Shawn catches him with his pants down, landing on his feet in an awesome counter and hitting Sweet Chin Music for the win. Another great match, proving once again just how good Cena is at storytelling in ring. The only thing that keeps it from being as good as Wrestlemania is the lack of intensity and the odd moment where it felt like they were going long just to go long. Still, great match. Especially for free TV. ****1/2


You do a great job of exposing the matches strengths, but really ignore the weaknesses. 

The selling in the 'mania match was absolutely weak and should have been come back to if so long were to be spent on it. If the story doesn't come back, then it isn't well done. For that reason, **** 1/4. I also like the teiring of moves, where Michaels has to use everything to beat the younger, stronger Cena, but for Cena, punches are basically enough until the finish.

The second match featured far too much control by one man for me to buy. If a guy is controlled that long, even in a long match, he should be worn down enough to go down. If he isn't, especially if he's the smaller guy, then that weardown was obviously pointless and ineffective. Also, it makes the comeback feel forced and weak since he was so dominated and his opponent should absolutely not be weakenned enough to go down to any of his desperation offense. See also, Roderick vs.Dragon, Supercard of Honor.


----------



## watts63

PulseGlazer said:


> You do a great job of exposing the matches strengths, but really ignore the weaknesses.
> 
> The selling in the 'mania match was absolutely weak and should have been come back to if so long were to be spent on it. If the story doesn't come back, then it isn't well done. For that reason, **** 1/4. I also like the teiring of moves, where Michaels has to use everything to beat the younger, stronger Cena, but for Cena, punches are basically enough until the finish.


I finally watched the 'Mania match & I agree with you. Selling was really bad & the story (AKA Shawn Michaels) saved this match.

*WWE Wrestlemania 23*
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels ****-****1/4

I'm about to re-watch Cena/Michaels II.

EDIT:

*WWE RAW 4/23/07*
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels II ****1/2


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

PulseGlazer said:


> You do a great job of exposing the matches strengths, but really ignore the weaknesses.
> 
> The selling in the 'mania match was absolutely weak and should have been come back to if so long were to be spent on it. If the story doesn't come back, then it isn't well done. For that reason, **** 1/4. I also like the teiring of moves, where Michaels has to use everything to beat the younger, stronger Cena, but for Cena, punches are basically enough until the finish.
> 
> The second match featured far too much control by one man for me to buy. If a guy is controlled that long, even in a long match, he should be worn down enough to go down. If he isn't, especially if he's the smaller guy, then that weardown was obviously pointless and ineffective. Also, it makes the comeback feel forced and weak since he was so dominated and his opponent should absolutely not be weakenned enough to go down to any of his desperation offense. See also, Roderick vs.Dragon, Supercard of Honor.


I'm going to have to rewatch the Mania match, because I didn't find he worked the leg terribly long, nor terribly well. I sort of equated it to when you fall and smack your knee on the pavement...sure it hurts for a bit, but given some time to walk it off, you'll be fine as long as you don't bash it again. I also more or less figured Shawn didn't go for it again because he realized that was the case and he'd lost his opening since he was more or less trying to outclass him instead of doing anything with it.

Interestingly enough, people always bitch about Cena "not selling it" but not Shawn completely ignoring it after that point, thus giving Cena no reason to sell it further. Like I said, not a crippling injury.

As for the rematch, I actually agree with you about the weardown aspect, but at the same time, I found Cena to be trying to outclass Shawn without really doing any damage for so long that it felt fine to me. Especially since Shawn was fired up like crazy. Though that is why I docked half a star...Cena was in control for too long without ever trying to put him away. Even in an exhibition setting, that's stupid.


----------



## watts63

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Interestingly enough, people always bitch about Cena "not selling it" but not Shawn completely ignoring it after that point, thus giving Cena no reason to sell it further. Like I said, not a crippling injury.


Because it would have been pointless for Shawn to back on the leg when Cena just shook it off & started running around. It shown that HBK's plan to take out the leg failed, so Shawn had to find another option to take down the younger, stronger champion.


----------



## McQueen

I guess I need to watch Cena/HBK II from RAW (I have it on my computer just haven't watched it yet) and compare it too the WM Main Event which I did really enjoy a lot more than I expected I would. I do have to agree on UD's stance that Cena didn't get his leg worked over enough to really make it that much of a deal that he should have been selling the hell out of it (Funk style). Anyways I'll have to watch both matches back to back this weekend.


----------



## PulseGlazer

McQueen said:


> I guess I need to watch Cena/HBK II from RAW (I have it on my computer just haven't watched it yet) and compare it too the WM Main Event which I did really enjoy a lot more than I expected I would. I do have to agree on UD's stance that Cena didn't get his leg worked over enough to really make it that much of a deal that he should have been selling the hell out of it (Funk style). Anyways I'll have to watch both matches back to back this weekend.


If it wasn't going to be brought back or used then it shouldn't be in the match. It's like a dangling plot thread in a novel.


----------



## El Conquistador

_AJPW 8-26-07: Chris Sabin vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima (World Jr. Heavyweight Title) ****3/4_

Flawless match for the most part. My favorite match all year apart from Dragon/Nigel from Driven but both Sabin and Nakajima put on a hell of a performance. They meshed extremely well, layed it all out on the line, and had good pacing throughout. The way Nakajima sold that dragon leg whip was priceless. Awesome selling on his part and it was great to see how relentless Sabin was. I loved watching the high impact exchanges, sick stuff. Classic match, would have been close to receiving the full five if it wasn't for that weak finish.


----------



## KingKicks

M.W. said:


> _AJPW 8-26-07: Chris Sabin vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima (World Jr. Heavyweight Title) ****3/4_
> 
> Flawless match for the most part. My favorite match all year apart from Dragon/Nigel from Driven but both Sabin and Nakajima put on a hell of a performance. They meshed extremely well, layed it all out on the line, and had good pacing throughout. The way Nakajima sold that dragon leg whip was priceless. Awesome selling on his part and it was great to see how relentless Sabin was. I loved watching the high impact exchanges, sick stuff. Classic match, would have been close to receiving the full five if it wasn't for that weak finish.


That sounds awesome, looking forward to getting my hands on that match.


----------



## casper-21

Sabin vs Nakajima is a very good match, probably in my top 25, but not in my top 10.


----------



## RVDECCW420

*TNA Impact! 10/4/07*
Samoa Joe/Junior Fatu/LAX vs. Christian Cage/AJ Styles/XXX(Senshi/Daniels) 
****3/4

My current TV match of the year and my second overall only behind Angle vs. Lethal(****3/4-*****).


----------



## PulseGlazer

RVDECW420 said:


> *TNA Impact! 10/4/07*
> Samoa Joe/Junior Fatu/LAX vs. Christian Cage/AJ Styles/XXX(Senshi/Daniels)
> ****3/4
> 
> My current TV match of the year and my second overall only behind Angle vs. Lethal(****3/4-*****).


What are you on? Where can I get some?


----------



## RVDECCW420

PulseGlazer said:


> What are you on? Where can I get some?


Just what we need, another blind WWE mark.

Please go back here:
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/
And don't come back.

'Nuff Said.


----------



## -Mystery-

RVDECW420 said:


> Just what we need, another blind WWE mark.
> 
> Please go back here:
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/
> And don't come back.
> 
> 'Nuff Said.


Stevie Wonder can see better than you, tbh.


----------



## ROH

RVDECW420 said:


> I am an idiot.


Who un-banned this idiot?


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

PulseGlazer said:


> If it wasn't going to be brought back or used then it shouldn't be in the match. It's like a dangling plot thread in a novel.


It was used though...to establish Shawn being a better wrestler than Cena and Cena being much tougher than Shawn anticipated.

Above that, it adds a sense of realism in "Shawn tries something, it doesn't work, he tries something else" and building up Cena as basically being unbeatable no matter what Shawn pulls out of the hat.


----------



## Akira_Taue's_Beard

Just what we need, another blind TNA mark.

Please go back here:
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/total-nonstop-action-wrestling/
And don't come back.

'Nuff Said.


----------



## KingKicks

Akira_Taue's_Beard said:


> Just what we need, another blind TNA mark.
> 
> Please go back here:
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/total-nonstop-action-wrestling/
> And don't come back.
> 
> 'Nuff Said.


Funny the guy is always saying TNA > ROH, yet he never posts in the TNA section.


----------



## watts63

M.W. said:


> _AJPW 8-26-07: Chris Sabin vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima (World Jr. Heavyweight Title) ****3/4_
> 
> Flawless match for the most part. My favorite match all year apart from Dragon/Nigel from Driven but both Sabin and Nakajima put on a hell of a performance. They meshed extremely well, layed it all out on the line, and had good pacing throughout. The way Nakajima sold that dragon leg whip was priceless. Awesome selling on his part and it was great to see how relentless Sabin was. I loved watching the high impact exchanges, sick stuff. Classic match, would have been close to receiving the full five if it wasn't for that weak finish.


I just watched this match & I have to say...overrated. ***3/4. They put on a very good performance but definetly not a MOTYC by any means. I wanted to give it **** but the ending was too weak.


----------



## El Conquistador

watts63 said:


> I just watched this match & I have to say...overrated. ***3/4. They put on a very good performance but definetly not a MOTYC by any means. I wanted to give it **** but the ending was too weak.


The finish alone brought it down to ***3/4? I know it's a matter of personal opinion but if you used that logic to degrade it that much then I don't know what to tell you. What else besides the finish was wrong with the match?


----------



## ROH

M.W. said:


> The finish alone brought it down to ***3/4? I know it's a matter of personal opinion but if you used that logic to degrade it that much then I don't know what to tell you. What else besides the finish was wrong with the match?


Tell me where to DL this match now


----------



## -Mystery-

*WXW 16 Carat Gold Tournament Night 2*
-Chris Hero vs. Ryo Saito - ****
-Murat Bosporus vs. Go Shiozaki - ****


----------



## watts63

M.W. said:


> The finish alone brought it down to ***3/4? I know it's a matter of personal opinion but if you used that logic to degrade it that much then I don't know what to tell you. What else besides the finish was wrong with the match?


No. I thought the match was very good but definetly not a MOTYC like you think it is. I felt they could have done more as the ending just came out of nowhere.


----------



## -Mystery-

ROH said:


> Tell me where to DL this match now


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other...suhiko-nakajima-vs-chris-sabin-8-26-07-a.html


----------



## xYCSMx

I love how people think just because a match didn't end up with someone getting run over by a truck and killed it's not a good match. Not ending with a finisher is more realistic anyway.


----------



## ROH

-Mystery- said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other...suhiko-nakajima-vs-chris-sabin-8-26-07-a.html


cheers.


----------



## El Conquistador

ROH said:


> Tell me where to DL this match now


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other...suhiko-nakajima-vs-chris-sabin-8-26-07-a.html



watts63 said:


> No. I thought the match was very good but definetly not a MOTYC like you think it is. I felt they could have done more as the ending just came out of nowhere.


Don't know what to tell you then. If you can't point out any flaws in the match then I'm not going to second guess my rating. The match itself went twenty five minutes and both Nakajima and Sabin were killing each other with high impact move after high impact move, can't determine what exactly the match was lacking besides a better finishing move.


----------



## watts63

M.W. said:


> Don't know what to tell you then. If you can't point out any flaws in the match then I'm not going to second guess my rating. The match itself went twenty five minutes and both Nakajima and Sabin were killing each other with high impact move after high impact move, can't determine what exactly the match was lacking besides a better finishing move.


I didn't think nothing was wrong with it except the ending of course, I just don't see how you gave that match ****3/4.


----------



## ROH

xyoucantseemex said:


> I love how people think just because a match didn't end up with someone getting run over by a truck and killed it's not a good match. Not ending with a finisher is more realistic anyway.


No, you're mis-interpreting what Watts's saying. 

He didn't say it WASN'T a good match because of the finish. He said it WAS a good match (hence ***3/4), but would have been BETTER with a stronger finish.


----------



## musdy

I just watched Cena/Michaels II on RAW and for sure a top 10 match. Good psychology, excellent selling and a hot crowd to make a great match. I hated Cena up to this point but now I think its time to let that go.


----------



## watts63

musdy said:


> I just watched Cena/Michaels II on RAW and for sure a top 10 match. Good psychology, excellent selling and a hot crowd to make a great match. I hated Cena up to this point but now I think its time to let that go.


Definetly. I may never be a fan of Cena but, I now respect the guy for what he's done this year.


----------



## Katsuyori Murakami

musdy said:


> I just watched Cena/Michaels II on RAW and for sure a top 10 match. Good psychology, excellent selling and a hot crowd to make a great match. I hated Cena up to this point but now I think its time to let that go.


Isn't that the match with the extended and then completely disregarded limbwork?


----------



## musdy

Any other Cena matches I should check out from this year??


----------



## watts63

musdy said:


> Any other Cena matches I should check out from this year??



His Wrestlemania match with HBK
Fatal Four Way on Backlash
Last Man Standing with Umaga on Royal Rumble
vs. Bobby Lashley on Great American Bash.


----------



## musdy

The saddest thing is I skipped all those matches because of Cena.


----------



## ROH

Just rewatched Nakajima/Kondo, and I stick by my ****1/2 rating. The young underdog (Nakajima) vs cocky veteran (Kondo) story was done SO well, as well as many smaller stories (the finisher blocking, Nakajima paying ode to other legendary juniors in wrestling, etc). Really well built nearfalls, and an awesome finsh. Number 2 (behind KENTA/Ishimori and Maru/Ibushi) on my Japanese MOTYC list.

Gonna watch Nakajima/Sabin now 

EDIT: Nakajima/Sabin was awesome and flawless, but not really good enough to be an MOTYC for me. I'd give it **** for a rating.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

M.W. said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other...suhiko-nakajima-vs-chris-sabin-8-26-07-a.html
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know what to tell you then. If you can't point out any flaws in the match then I'm not going to second guess my rating. The match itself went twenty five minutes and both Nakajima and Sabin were killing each other with high impact move after high impact move, can't determine what exactly the match was lacking besides a better finishing move.


Doesn't Nakajima essentially rape any credibility the Cradle Shock had as a finisher in that match?

Cause if so, that's a good reason to dock it some.


----------



## MrPaiMei

My current top 10, in no real order... 
BJ vs. Jimmy 3/31 
CIMA/Shingo/Susumu vs. Kidou/Mochizuki/Saito 3/31 
Dragon vs. Nigel 6/9 
Dragon vs. KENTA 6/23 
Dragon vs. Morishima 8/25 
Tanahashi vs. Nagata 4/22 
Akiyama/Rikio vs. Takayama/Suguira 4/28 
KENTA/Ishimori vs. Marufuji/Ibushi 7/15 
Doi/Yoshino/Kishiwada vs. Shingo/Hulk/Kong vs. Saito/Susumu/Kidou 6/5 
Kingston vs. Hero 4/8


----------



## starttheinfeKKtion

watts63 said:


> His Wrestlemania match with HBK
> Fatal Four Way on Backlash
> Last Man Standing with Umaga on Royal Rumble
> vs. Bobby Lashley on Great American Bash.


Also, IMO not MOTYC's or anything but "good" are..

Cena/Umaga - Royal Rumble
Cena/Michaels vs. MVP/Kennedy - SD 2/16
Cena/Michaels vs. Undertaker/Batista - No Way Out
Cena vs. Foley vs. Orton vs. Booker vs. Lashley - Vengeance
Cena/Orton - SummerSlam
:agree:


----------



## PulseGlazer

MrPaiMei said:


> My current top 10, in no real order...
> BJ vs. Jimmy 3/31
> CIMA/Shingo/Susumu vs. Kidou/Mochizuki/Saito 3/31
> Dragon vs. Nigel 6/9
> Dragon vs. KENTA 6/23
> Dragon vs. Morishima 8/25
> Tanahashi vs. Nagata 4/22
> Akiyama/Rikio vs. Takayama/Suguira 4/28
> KENTA/Ishimori vs. Marufuji/Ibushi 7/15
> Doi/Yoshino/Kishiwada vs. Shingo/Hulk/Kong vs. Saito/Susumu/Kidou 6/5
> Kingston vs. Hero 4/8


I'll do just American in no Order

King vs. Hero Out with the Old
Dragon vs. Nigel Driven
Dragon vs. Morishima Manhattan Mayhem 2
Dragon vs. Go Live in Tokyo
Dragon vs. KENTA Driven
Jacobs vs. Whitmer Supercard of Honor 2
Briscoes vs. MCMG Good Times Great Memories
Jay Briscoe and Erick Stevens vs. El Steenerico - Fighting Spirit
Briscoes vs. Doi and Shingo - FYF: Liverpool
Hero vs. Quack - Anniversario?


----------



## -Mystery-

PulseGlazer said:


> I'll do just American in no Order
> 
> King vs. Hero Out with the Old
> Dragon vs. Nigel Driven
> Dragon vs. Morishima Manhattan Mayhem 2
> Dragon vs. Go Live in Tokyo
> Dragon vs. KENTA Driven
> Jacobs vs. Whitmer Supercard of Honor 2
> Briscoes vs. MCMG Good Times Great Memories
> *Jay Briscoe and Erick Stevens vs. El Steenerico - Fighting Spirit*
> Briscoes vs. Doi and Shingo - FYF: Liverpool
> Hero vs. Quack - Anniversario?


You'd put that over Briscoe/Briscoe? Care to explain?


----------



## PulseGlazer

-Mystery- said:


> You'd put that over Briscoe/Briscoe? Care to explain?


It's the best booked match I've seen this year. The timing was perfect, the storytelling was perfect. Mark actually sold the head wonderfully. His mom and Cary's interaction went amazingly. Jay being able to almost hold off the other team plays off ASE 3 awesomely. Stevens showed he's a very good tag wrestler hanging with these guys. They built everything to a frenzy, then pulled the plug on the crowd, making Steen and Generico monster threats. 

Jay vs. Mark is #11, if it helps. Rave vs. Nigel, Nigel vs. Morishima 1, and Morishima vs. Joe are the next closest to the list.


----------



## Sephiroth

Katsuyori Murakami said:


> Isn't that the match with the extended and then completely disregarded limbwork?


that's pretty much all of Cena's matches where he's worked over for an extensive period of time.

seriously, Cena's a hell of a worker even tho he's no Bryan Danielson, but the man sucks at remembering to sell shit


----------



## LL4E

How was the Triple Crown: Minoru Suzuki © vs. Kensuke Sasaki match? Two pretty good names in a big match up. Just wondering. I know it went pretty long. Anyway, if anyone can help me out with that one it would be awesome.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

-Mystery- said:


> You'd put that over Briscoe/Briscoe? Care to explain?


Briscoe vs. Briscoe had the single most spotty, wanktastic finishing sequence I've ever seen in my life. It was like they'd exhausted the heated nearfalls mid-match and thus had to resort to insane moves followed by a minute of selling exhaustion.

They were trying far too hard to make it an epic there, and went to far too great a length not to put one over the other.


----------



## musdy

some Dragon gate to add:
IJ Tag Titles: Taku Iwasa, Keni'chiro Arai vs Ryo Saito, Susumu Yokosuka-****1/2

Open the Triangle Gate: Masaaki Mochizuki, Don Fujii, K-ness vs Shingo Takagi, Cyber Kong, Kota Iibushi- ****1/4


----------



## MrPaiMei

Have you watched Doi-CIMA? Is it up there? I know he busted out the Redline so I was hoping it was pretty good.


----------



## musdy

I will tonight. Also Mr. Duke


----------



## smitty33

WWE - Umaga vs Cena - Royal rumble

ROH - Briscoes vs Motor City


----------



## Sephiroth

LL4E said:


> How was the Triple Crown: Minoru Suzuki © vs. Kensuke Sasaki match? Two pretty good names in a big match up. Just wondering. I know it went pretty long. Anyway, if anyone can help me out with that one it would be awesome.


it's TOO fucking long. it's in the Other Media section if you want to see it...but beware. 

i didn't really like it that match. it was ok i guess


----------



## WillTheBloody

smitty33 said:


> ROH - Briscoes vs Motor City


SWEET ZOMBIE JESUS! The Briscoes fought an entire f*cking city? Talk about "Manning Up"! When did this happen?!


----------



## PulseGlazer

Not only did they fight a city, but it was a MURDER city. Poor hicks.


----------



## watts63

*ROH Death Before Dishonor V Night Two*
Roderick Strong, Davey Richards, Rocky Romero & Matt Sydal vs. Austin Aries, Erick Stevens, M-Dogg 20 & Delirious ****1/2-****3/4

Incredible match. Roderick Strong & Erick Stevens are easily the MVPs of this match. This is now in my top 5.

*ROH Driven
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA III ****3/4

ROH Good Times, Great Memories
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****3/4

CZW Out With The Old, In With The New
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****3/4

ROH Death Before Dishonor V Night Two
Roderick Strong, Davey Richards, Rocky Romero & Matt Sydal vs. Austin Aries, Erick Stevens, M-Dogg 20 & Delirious ****1/2-****3/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/03/07
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****1/2-****3/4*​


----------



## musdy

CIMA vs. Naruki Doi- ****


----------



## MrPaiMei

This PPV sounds AWESOME.


----------



## watts63

*Dragon Gate Infinity #65*
Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino & Magnitude Kishiwada vs. SHINGO, Cyber Kong & BxB Hulk vs. Susumu Yokosuka, Ryo Saito & Dragon Kid ****1/2


----------



## PulseGlazer

watts63 said:


> *ROH Death Before Dishonor V Night Two*
> Roderick Strong, Davey Richards, Rocky Romero & Matt Sydal vs. Austin Aries, Erick Stevens, M-Dogg 20 & Delirious ****1/2-****3/4
> 
> Incredible match. Roderick Strong & Erick Stevens are easily the MVPs of this match. This is now in my top 5.
> 
> *ROH Driven
> Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA III ****3/4
> 
> ROH Good Times, Great Memories
> Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****3/4
> 
> CZW Out With The Old, In With The New
> Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****3/4
> 
> ROH Death Before Dishonor V Night Two
> Roderick Strong, Davey Richards, Rocky Romero & Matt Sydal vs. Austin Aries, Erick Stevens, M-Dogg 20 & Delirious ****1/2-****3/4
> 
> Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/03/07
> Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****1/2-****3/4*​


What'd you think of the night 1 street fight?


----------



## watts63

PulseGlazer said:


> What'd you think of the night 1 street fight?


Haven't seen it yet.


----------



## clif

Still for me, the Briscoe Brothers vs.MCMGS Close to 5 stars


----------



## smitty33

> Still for me, the Briscoe Brothers vs.MCMGS Close to 5 stars


Agreed, that match was a ***** match or damn close to it.


----------



## PulseGlazer

smitty33 said:


> Agreed, that match was a ***** match or damn close to it.


Too flawed for 5, imo. 4 and a half or 4 and 3/4, though.


----------



## watts63

Pulse Glazer, what did you think of the Night 1 street fight of Steenerico vs. Briscoes?


----------



## PulseGlazer

**** 1/4ish. It's an absolute blast, but didn't have the insane spots or the selling (Stevens <3) of night 2. It's brutal and builds well, but that's all it is. One of the more fun matches of the year.


----------



## Sephiroth

PulseGlazer said:


> One of the more fun matches of the year.


isn't that all that wrestling really should come down to?


----------



## ROH

Sephiroth said:


> isn't that all that wrestling really should come down to?


Yes and no. Something could be really fun, but make no sense at the same time.


----------



## PulseGlazer

ROH said:


> Yes and no. Something could be really fun, but make no sense at the same time.


Just fun simply isn't as memorable as fun and really good.


----------



## ROH

PulseGlazer said:


> Just fun simply isn't as memorable as fun and really good.


:agree:


----------



## watts63

*Dragon Gate Infinity #64*
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka & Ryo Saito vs. SHINGO, BxB Hulk & Cyber Kong ****1/4

CIMA's hate for SHINGO & New Hazard made this match for me. CIMA was more vicious than I ever seen him been on SHINGO & BxB Hulk. Heck he was doing heel tactics. With that & great action...a low MOTYC.


----------



## ROH

Cheech and Cloudy vs Olsens is probably #3 (behind Hero/Quack and Pac/CC) on my Chikky MOTY list. ****1/4 for rating.


----------



## watts63

*ROH Death Before Dishonor V Night One*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico ****1/4


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod

I can't pinpoint which one match I would say is my favorite, but I agree with most of the top choices:

Cena/Umaga - Royal Rumble
Christian/Joe - Destination X
Batista/Undertaker - WrestleMania
Cena/Michaels - WrestleMania
Cena/Michaels - RAW
Batista/Undertaker - Backlash (though the draw finish was silly)
Cena/Michaels/Edge/Orton - Backlash
Harris/Storm - Sacrifice 2007
HHH/Orton - Last Man Standing - No Mercy 2007

I don't know if it was mentioned before, but a match that I absolutely loved was the KOTM match at Slammiversary. It was just non-stop excitement, and a great wrestling match inside of the spot-fest. The finish was a little questionable--why would Harris just spear Christian when he would have to assume it would give Angle the opening--but everything else was perfect.


----------



## starttheinfeKKtion

Briscoes vs. MCMG ****1/2

I tried watching this like 5 times, but I could never sit through the whole match, but I finally did.
It was pretty damn good. Some great Comedy to start, but damn it dragged in the beginning. The could of easily cut 10 minutes out of this match. But it really picked up near the end. I will say it is the Best Tag Team match of the year, but is is overrated, IMO.


----------



## SuperDuperDragon

starttheinfeKKtion said:


> Briscoes vs. MCMG ****1/2
> 
> I tried watching this like 5 times, but I could never sit through the whole match, but I finally did.
> It was pretty damn good. Some great Comedy to start, but damn it dragged in the beginning. The could of easily cut 10 minutes out of this match. But it really picked up near the end. I will say it is the Best Tag Team match of the year, but is is overrated, IMO.


I wolud say the only reason it is overrated is the fact that the match included MCMG, who will always be a little bit overrated IMO.


----------



## ROH

Oh MY! *Claudio/Shima* from DBDVN1 was so fucking good. Perfect storytelling and selling from Claudio, perfectly built as a whole and some real mark out worthy nearfalls. On par with Dragon for best Mori defence. *****1/2*.


----------



## watts63

ROH said:


> Oh MY! *Claudio/Shima* from DBDVN1 was so fucking good. Perfect storytelling and selling from Claudio, perfectly built as a whole and some real mark out worthy nearfalls. On par with Dragon for best Mori defence. *****1/2*.


Those "worthy nearfalls" are Sinlcair botching the three count twice.


----------



## lizmark

*ROH Death Before Dishonor V - Night 1*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico: Street Fight ****1/4


----------



## ROH

watts63 said:


> Those "worthy nearfalls" are Sinlcair botching the three count twice.


Whatever, I really didn't care about that Sinclair stuff.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Sinclair stuff was on purpose to set up the three-way. On another note, watched Claudio-PAC (CHIKARA) and couldn't get into it as anything more than a really good spotfest. ***1/2, and I prefered the Ricochet-Claudio match.


----------



## watts63

MrPaiMei said:


> Sinclair stuff was on purpose to set up the three-way.


If that was the case...I hope they never do that again because it was stupid to me if it was on purpose.


----------



## Sephiroth

how can you guys say it was Sinclair fucking up a three count? if anything, it's Morishima not fucking kicking out when he's supposed to


----------



## ROH

Sephiroth said:


> how can you guys say it was Sinclair fucking up a three count? if anything, it's Morishima not fucking kicking out when he's supposed to


He does kick out, but doesn't get his shoulder up clearly enough.


----------



## btbgod

SuperDuperDragon said:


> I wolud say the only reason it is overrated is the fact that the match included MCMG, who will always be a little bit overrated IMO.


MCMG overated? lol there awsome.


----------



## PulseGlazer

btbgod said:


> MCMG overated? lol there awsome.


Both they and the Briscoes are over-rated. Both are great, but they're being put up with all time great teams after far too little time.


----------



## WillTheBloody

PulseGlazer said:


> Both they and the Briscoes are over-rated. Both are great, but they're being put up with all time great teams after far too little time.


Maybe I missed something, but I've never heard someone compare the Briscoes with the best teams ever. That seems silly...but not nearly as silly as stunting another wrestling fans right to mark out with the "overrated" argument, an argument that is waaaayyy overrated. It's, like, maybe a top ten argument. MAYBE. But certainly not top three and definately not the best ever. LOL.

And, just because I'm curious: who do you feel is the best tag team today?


----------



## ROH

WillTheBloody said:


> Maybe I missed something, but I've never heard someone compare the Briscoes with the best teams ever. That seems silly...but not nearly as silly as stunting another wrestling fans right to mark out with the "overrated" argument, an argument that is waaaayyy overrated. It's, like, maybe a top ten argument. MAYBE. But certainly not top three and definately not the best ever. LOL.
> 
> And, just because I'm curious: who do you feel is the best tag team today?


One ROHBot on the ROH Bard sais they;re the best tag team ever to lace up a pair of boots :lmao

I think the best today is Kel Steenerico, although I do need to see more DG (Doi/Yoshino, Susumu/Saito).


----------



## -Mystery-

ROH said:


> One ROHBot on the ROH Bard sais they;re the best tag team ever to lace up a pair of boots :lmao
> 
> *I think the best today is Kel Steenerico, although I do need to see more DG (Doi/Yoshino, Susumu/Saito).*


Lies.

Los Ice Creams FTW.


----------



## ROH

-Mystery- said:


> Lies.
> 
> Los Ice Creams FTW.


Well, I kinda was talking in kayfabe...


----------



## MrPaiMei

Minor change in the top 10, as the WM DG 6-man gets dropped...
BJ vs. Jimmy 3/31 
Dragon vs. Nigel 6/9 
Dragon vs. KENTA 6/23 
Dragon vs. Morishima 8/25 
Tanahashi vs. Nagata 4/22 
Akiyama/Rikio vs. Takayama/Suguira 4/28 
KENTA/Ishimori vs. Marufuji/Ibushi 7/15 
Doi/Yoshino/Kishiwada vs. Shingo/Hulk/Kong vs. Saito/Susumu/Kidou 6/5 
Kingston vs. Hero 4/8
Danielson vs. Generico 7/30


----------



## ROH

MrPaiMei said:


> Minor change in the top 10, as the WM DG 6-man gets dropped...


----------



## MrPaiMei

ROH said:


>


Meh, it was great, but looking at what to drop from the list it's a really insignificant match (even last years 6-man led to the MO'z formation). The other 3 I considered dropping were...
Akiyama/Rikio vs. Takayama/Suguira 4/28 - Star making performance for Suguira, and an awesome match with great Veteran vs. Noob psychology

KENTA/Ishimori vs. Marufuji/Ibushi 7/15 - Peak of the junior tag resurgence in NOAH

Doi/Yoshino/Kishiwada vs. Shingo/Hulk/Kong vs. Saito/Susumu/Kidou 6/5 - One of the main points in how over NH is, great match and even if they are about the same in overall quality, was much more innovative and interesting than "just another 6-man". 

So the 6-man was a great match, but nothing I'll look back at at the end of the year and think, "Wow, that meant something", which I think I can say for everything else on the list.


----------



## ROH

^ I see what ya mean. I thought if something were to go from the list it's be the Infinity 65 match, but I guess the SCOH2 match will suffice.


----------



## PulseGlazer

WillTheBloody said:


> Maybe I missed something, but I've never heard someone compare the Briscoes with the best teams ever. That seems silly...but not nearly as silly as stunting another wrestling fans right to mark out with the "overrated" argument, an argument that is waaaayyy overrated. It's, like, maybe a top ten argument. MAYBE. But certainly not top three and definately not the best ever. LOL.
> 
> And, just because I'm curious: who do you feel is the best tag team today?


It may be the Briscoes. I don't love the idea, but really... London and Kendrick are better workers, but aren't as good together and really aren't given the freedom. MCMG are probably just as good, but again, freedom is an issue. Steen and Generico haven't had the longevity as partners. Aries and Strong were better, but ... oh well. LAX would have a shot, but Hernandez still needs to improve. Steiners and Dudleyz are past their prime. AJ and Tomko won't team for long. Quacksaw are better, but really don't team nearly often enough. The Kings are gone. I don't follow DG, but the tag scene is fairly dead in the big three. 

All that's really left is Jay and Mark, though Steen and Generico are damn close, Quack and Jigsaw would be better, as would Aries and Strong, and Steen and Generico will be better soon. The Kings would be up there too.

Off topic, but are Los Ice Creams Hallow and Jig?


----------



## ROH

PulseGlazer said:


> Off topic, but are Los Ice Creams Hallow and Jig?


No, they're fucking El Hijo del Ice Cream and Ice cream Junior!

FUCK YOU FOR YOUR MISIDENTIFICATION OF THA CREAMS


----------



## -GP-

I miss the Kings...


----------



## MrPaiMei

PulseGlazer said:


> It may be the Briscoes. I don't love the idea, but really... London and Kendrick are better workers, but aren't as good together and really aren't given the freedom. MCMG are probably just as good, but again, freedom is an issue. Steen and Generico haven't had the longevity as partners. Aries and Strong were better, but ... oh well. LAX would have a shot, but Hernandez still needs to improve. Steiners and Dudleyz are past their prime. AJ and Tomko won't team for long. Quacksaw are better, but really don't team nearly often enough. The Kings are gone. I don't follow DG, but the tag scene is fairly dead in the big three.
> 
> All that's really left is Jay and Mark, though Steen and Generico are damn close, Quack and Jigsaw would be better, as would Aries and Strong, and Steen and Generico will be better soon. The Kings would be up there too.
> 
> Off topic, but are Los Ice Creams Hallow and Jig?


I've heard rumors of all kinds of guys being under the Ice Cream hood, but I just saw one of them in the ring with Jig so I doubt it. As for tag teams...Steenerico have been teaming long enough and are > than the Briscoes, as are Akiyama/Rikio, Saito/Susumu, Doi/Yoshino, a number of other DG teams, but most notably the best team out there today... Arai/Iwasa.


----------



## PulseGlazer

cp_punk said:


> I miss the Kings...


I said that every single show the first half of the year when they did NOTHING with CC or Hero.


----------



## starttheinfeKKtion

BJW - 3-14-07 - Takashi Sasaki vs. Yuko Miyamoto (BJW Death Match Heavyweight Title - Scaffold Death Match) 

****3/4


----------



## McQueen

PulseGlazer said:


> Both they and the Briscoes are over-rated. Both are great, but they're being put up with all time great teams after far too little time.


I agree, the Briscoes while a great modern day team aren't really at the level to be compared to teams like The British Bulldogs, The Funks, Freebirds, Hansen & Brody, Hart Foundation, Taue/Kawada, MVC, Rock n' Roll Express and of course Rikishi and Scotty Too Hotty. Will they accomplish enough to be a great team, probably but as said it's still too early to call them a "legendary" team. The KoW and Aries/Strong were better teams anyways IMO.

I've been really turned off in the last year or so on the Briscoes due to the fact that most of there matches have simply broken down to a "Let's do cool moves!" mentality. It may be fun to watch but I'd rather watch a match with real emotion behind it not a "This is awesome" match a lot of the time.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

McQueen said:


> I agree, the Briscoes while a great modern day team aren't really at the level to be compared to teams like The British Bulldogs, The Funks, Freebirds, Hansen & Brody, Hart Foundation, Taue/Kawada, MVC, Rock n' Roll Express and of course Rikishi and Scotty Too Hotty. Will they accomplish enough to be a great team, probably but as said it's still too early to call them a "legendary" team. The KoW and Aries/Strong were better teams anyways IMO.
> 
> I've been really turned off in the last year or so on the Briscoes due to the fact that most of there matches have simply broken down to a "Let's do cool moves!" mentality. It may be fun to watch but I'd rather watch a match with real emotion behind it not a "This is awesome" match a lot of the time.


Freebirds? Rikishi and Scotty?

I will grant that Kish was dishing out some shockingly stiff offense at that point, but I wouldn't rank that team with the greats.


The Briscoes are good at creating a well organized spotfest, usually. That's all they're really good at and they know it, so they stick to their guns. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't make them the best team around.

My vote goes to Londrick. They're above average within a straightjacket. My mouth waters to think of what a team they could be without limitations. Still...even though they don't have ****+ matches to go with it, I think the quality of their work within the matches they get exceeds the Briscoes. 

If that makes sense.


----------



## lizmark

*ROH Manhattan Mayhem II* 

Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson ****3/4


----------



## McQueen

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Freebirds? Rikishi and Scotty?


I like the Freebirds and they could be argued as a classic team, but the 'Kish/Scotty comment was a joke.

In fact I loathe S2H, I was just making a goofy comment to see if anyone would call me on it.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

McQueen said:


> I like the Freebirds and they could be argued as a classic team, but the 'Kish/Scotty comment was a joke.
> 
> In fact I loathe S2H, I was just making a goofy comment to see if anyone would call me on it.


The funny thing is, despite Scotty being boring as fuck at that point, Rikishi was working pretty stiff, which led to some fairly decent matches with the Bashams.


----------



## PulseGlazer

TheUnholyDragon said:


> The funny thing is, despite Scotty being boring as fuck at that point, Rikishi was working pretty stiff, which led to some fairly decent matches with the Bashams.


Stiff does not equal good.


----------



## Pablo Escobar

I havent seen any talk of HHH vs Orton Last man standing as a top match for this year. Does this match not live up to everyone's standards of a MOTYC? Just curious. I thought it was one of the better wwe matches all year, and thought the match was perfectly set up earlier in the night. I'd say it was about 4 1/4 stars, but i only watched it once. Your thoughts on that match?


----------



## Blasko

PulseGlazer said:


> Stiff does not equal good.


 Correct. 

It equals _entertainment._


----------



## PulseGlazer

Not to me it doesn't. At least not in every situation.


----------



## Horselover Fat

***: Th* **TYC Th**ad 2007!!!*

*ti** i* ** *v**d*n* th*** day* I c**ld ca** l***.


----------



## McQueen

-Blasko- said:


> Correct.
> 
> It equals _entertainment._


Pretty sure B-Boy and a lot of the other guys in the indies who are stiff for the sake of it being "cool" still suck ass.

Now "Stiff" as in Chris Hero and Eddie Kingston beating the shit out of each other due to a long standing rivalry and intense hatred (therefore giving them a reason to work stiff) = _entertainment & awesomeness_.

By the way I watched that CZW "Loser Leaves Town" match they had this year this past week and it is a MOTYC for sure - **** 1/2


----------



## PulseGlazer

McQueen said:


> Pretty sure B-Boy and a lot of the other guys in the indies who are stiff for the sake of it being "cool" still suck ass.
> 
> Now "Stiff" as in Chris Hero and Eddie Kingston beating the shit out of each other due to a long standing rivalry and intense hatred (therefore giving them a reason to work stiff) = _entertainment & awesomeness_.
> 
> By the way I watched that CZW "Loser Leaves Town" match they had this year this past week and it is a MOTYC for sure - **** 1/2


I could not possibly agree more for everything in this post.


----------



## Horselover Fat

*Re: **: Th* **TYC Th**ad 2007!!!*



WCW said:


> *ti** i* ** *v**d*n* th*** day* I c**ld ca** l***.


Pretty sure I ment to type "stiff is so overdone these days I could care less".


----------



## ROH

I don't like it when stiffness is unnecessary. If the fans want to see it, yeah go for it, but if no-one cares, you're just getting hurt for no reason.

When it's necessary though (ie King, Hero), it sure is entertaining.


----------



## Horselover Fat

It's also the reason Benoit had the brain of an 86 year old Alzheimer's patient and Dynamite is in a wheelchair.


----------



## KeepItFresh

McQueen said:


> Pretty sure B-Boy and a lot of the other guys in the indies who are stiff for the sake of it being "cool" still suck ass.
> 
> Now "Stiff" as in Chris Hero and Eddie Kingston beating the shit out of each other due to a long standing rivalry and intense hatred (therefore giving them a reason to work stiff) = _entertainment & awesomeness_.
> 
> By the way I watched that CZW "Loser Leaves Town" match they had this year this past week and it is a MOTYC for sure - **** 1/2


What about Drake Younger v.s Low Ki from IWA-MS? ****

Too bad I haven't seen anything else noteworthy from Drake Younger.


----------



## McQueen

I haven't seen that match KIF, so I can't comment.


----------



## WillTheBloody

Keep_It_Fresh said:


> What about Drake Younger v.s Low Ki from IWA-MS? ****
> 
> Too bad I haven't seen anything else noteworthy from Drake Younger.


I thought the match was OK. I'm not a big Ki fan, so to me it was the same "Mid-South Massacre" that Ki has been doing to a most folks in IWA-MS. His match with Roddy back in January was much better. Give credit to Younger though. He sold a good beating.


----------



## lizmark

Just recently watched..

*ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
Murder City Machine Guns vs. The Briscoe Brothers 
****3/4

*ROH Driven*
Bryan Danielson vs.KENTA
****3/4

*ROH Death Before Dishonor - Night 2*
Roderick Strong & Davey Richards & Rocky Romero & Matt Sydal vs. Austin Aries & Erick Stevens & M-Dogg 20 & Delirious - Street Fight
****1/2

*IWA-MS Hurt*
Low Ki vs. Roderick Strong
****1/4

*ROH FYF - Chicago*
Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs - Windy City Deathmatch
****


----------



## PulseGlazer

lizmark said:


> Just reasonetly watched..
> 
> *ROH Good Times, Great Memories*
> Murder City Machine Guns vs. The Briscoe Brothers
> ****3/4
> 
> *ROH Driven*
> Bryan Danielson vs.KENTA
> ****3/4
> 
> *ROH Death Before Dishonor - Night 2*
> Roderick Strong & Davey Richards & Rocky Romero & Matt Sydal vs. Austin Aries & Erick Stevens & M-Dogg 20 & Delirious - Street Fight
> ****1/2
> 
> *IWA-MS Hurt*
> Low Ki vs. Roderick Strong
> ****1/4
> 
> *ROH FYF - Chicago*
> Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs - Windy City Deathmatch
> ****


Agreed besides the Street fight. It's Recently, btw.


----------



## Horselover Fat

Where did you watch Dragon/KENTA? The DVD isn't out yet.


----------



## musdy

They showed it in Japan.


----------



## Blasko

WCW said:


> Where did you watch Dragon/KENTA? The DVD isn't out yet.


 Samurai TV, if I am not mistaken.


----------



## ROH

WCW said:


> The DVD isn't out yet.


u = insiderz


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

PulseGlazer said:


> Stiff does not equal good.


You know, I would think by now that you would know that I know that...

What made it fun was the fact that he was taking tag formula matches and just adding a little extra "oomph" to his moves, making them look extra crisp and hitting his strikes nice and hard, which...in the uber-safe realm of WWE at the time, made it feel very _different_ and...well, good.


A hundred times better than any Low Ki work in what seems like forever.


----------



## WillTheBloody

Just finished watching Ki/Hernandez from IWA-MS this year. Reminded me of Joe/Kobashi in stiffness, and that the crowd kinda dictated the pace. It was really good, even if the finish was extremely weak.


----------



## watts63

*FIP Battle of The Belts*
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens ****1/4


----------



## musdy

PWG DDT4
CIMA vs. Bryan Danielson- ****1/2


----------



## Blasko

Misawa vs Joe- **** 1/4. 

Pretty badass stuff. I had pretty love expatiations but was surprised of how good it went. 

Really hope Joe does a tour again, he could be a key players in NOAH's lacking Heavyweight division.


----------



## watts63

Joe vs. Misawa ***3/4


----------



## PulseGlazer

*** 3/4 is a motyc now?


----------



## -Mystery-

PulseGlazer said:


> *** 3/4 is a motyc now?


Different standards for different promotions. With NOAH being in a slump this year, a ***3/4 match could be considered a MOTYC by their standards.


----------



## watts63

PulseGlazer said:


> *** 3/4 is a motyc now?


Nope. I just posted in the wrong thread.


----------



## ROH

Steenerico vs Davey and Dragon - ****1/2

This was FUCKING INCREDIBLE. I'll have more up tomorrow.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

PulseGlazer said:


> *** 3/4 is a motyc now?


Someone else put it up as an MOTYC, therefore he's saying that his opinion doesn't match it. 

Same with when I said Roddy vs. ki from Hurt was only ***1/2 imo.

The point is not just to put forward your MOTYCs, but discuss those which have already been noted. Occasionally, I'll also note a match which I may only consider ***1/2-***3/4, but that someone else may consider ****+. The point is to throw as many high end matches as possible out to give people a heads up and get them watching so by the end of the year, they can have an educated decision for their MOTY listing.


----------



## Blasko

I feel stupid for giving that match so high. 

I re-watched it again and gave it ****, might have to rewatch it again for a final rating.


----------



## ROH

TWO MOTYC's from PWG 'Giant Size Annual 4:

*Strong and PAC vs Kel Steenerico - ****1/2* - This is a pretty low ****1/2. AWESOME match.

*Generico vs Danielson - ****1/2* - The most dramtic thing I've seen all year, awesome.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Nakajima vs. Sabin - **** 1/4 or **** 1/2.. great stuff, damn near an all time classic, before a few flaws. At first Sabin is using his speed, but Nakajima is actually faster, so Sabin works the leg a bit until he has the speed advantage. Nakajima then uses his brains, outsmarting the now faster Sabin, but Sabin works his way around that. The story and selling to this point are at an all time classic level and Sabin uses his brains to hit a super Cradle Shock. It's a bit out of nowhere to go with a super finisher before the normal, but okay, since it just kind of came to him. That gets two. Sabin then goes with a normal cradle shock, for another two, that really annoyed me... 2 back to back finishers, the super first, basically make it look like Sabin has nothing that can beat Nakajima and he's weak. The finish sees him get a bit of heat back kicking out of Nakajima's German Suplex finisher, only to fall to a kick right after, but really, the guy was just totally whupped. He had Nakajima beat in every way, but apparently Nakajima just outclassed him for no discernable reason in the in ring story. It hurt what was otherwise an amazing match.


----------



## Sephiroth

Chris Sabin is so underrated as a wrestler. he's been overshadowed by Daniels, Joe, AJ, and even Alex in TNA, and was never given a shot in ROH outside of a few great matches. 

plus his hair is better than your hair, nuff said.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Sabin is better than Daniels or Shelley 8 nights out of 10 and getting damn close to AJ. He's gotten great and he actually SELLS!


----------



## Sephiroth

Aaron, at this point in his carrer, a cardboard box is better than Daniels.

yeah, i said it. he's boring as fuck and too formula...TOO formula.

plus, a cardboard box could probably bend more for Danielson if they ever had a match (i really disliked Daniels vs. Danielson from Night of Tribute...had to throw that in there for the heck of it)


----------



## MrPaiMei

Minoru vs. Ryusuke Taguchi 7/6 ****1/2 (THIS is fighting spirit, top 10)


TOP 10
BJ vs. Jimmy 3/31 
Dragon vs. Nigel 6/9 
Dragon vs. KENTA 6/23 
Dragon vs. Morishima 8/25 
Tanahashi vs. Nagata 4/22 
Minoru vs. Taguchi 7/6
KENTA/Ishimori vs. Marufuji/Ibushi 7/15 
Doi/Yoshino/Kishiwada vs. Shingo/Hulk/Kong vs. Saito/Susumu/Kidou 6/5 
Kingston vs. Hero 4/8
Danielson vs. Generico 7/30


----------



## El Conquistador

PulseGlazer said:


> Nakajima vs. Sabin - **** 1/4 or **** 1/2.. great stuff, damn near an all time classic, before a few flaws. At first Sabin is using his speed, but Nakajima is actually faster, so Sabin works the leg a bit until he has the speed advantage. Nakajima then uses his brains, outsmarting the now faster Sabin, but Sabin works his way around that. The story and selling to this point are at an all time classic level and Sabin uses his brains to hit a super Cradle Shock. It's a bit out of nowhere to go with a super finisher before the normal, but okay, since it just kind of came to him. That gets two. Sabin then goes with a normal cradle shock, for another two, that really annoyed me... 2 back to back finishers, the super first, basically make it look like Sabin has nothing that can beat Nakajima and he's weak. The finish sees him get a bit of heat back kicking out of Nakajima's German Suplex finisher, only to fall to a kick right after, but really, the guy was just totally whupped. He had Nakajima beat in every way, but apparently Nakajima just outclassed him for no discernable reason in the in ring story. It hurt what was otherwise an amazing match.


Thank you. At least somebody enjoyed it as much as I did. I remember giving it a ****1/2 - ****3/4 rating and shortly after people calling me delirious. This just reinsures me that I wasn't high when I viewed it at the time.


----------



## Sephiroth

M.W. said:


> Thank you. At least somebody enjoyed it as much as I did. I remember giving it a ****1/2 - ****3/4 rating and shortly after people calling me delirious. *This just reinsures me that I wasn't high when I viewed it at the time*.


if anything, i'd want to be REASSURED i was high at the time of viewing . how about another go on the match?


----------



## T-C

MrPaiMei said:


> Minoru vs. Ryusuke Taguchi 7/6 ****1/2 (THIS is fighting spirit, top 10)
> 
> 
> TOP 10
> BJ vs. Jimmy 3/31
> Dragon vs. Nigel 6/9
> Dragon vs. KENTA 6/23
> Dragon vs. Morishima 8/25
> Tanahashi vs. Nagata 4/22
> Minoru vs. Taguchi 7/6
> KENTA/Ishimori vs. Marufuji/Ibushi 7/15
> Doi/Yoshino/Kishiwada vs. Shingo/Hulk/Kong vs. Saito/Susumu/Kidou 6/5
> Kingston vs. Hero 4/8
> Danielson vs. Generico 7/30


Yes, I was pimping this match earlier and I thought I was the only one who liked it so much. Good stuff.

However, the distinct lack of Joe/Nigel from Liverpool in your top 10 saddens me.


----------



## El Conquistador

Sephiroth said:


> if anything, i'd want to be REASSURED i was high at the time of viewing . how about another go on the match?


Haha, guess I was high.


----------



## MrPaiMei

T-C said:


> Yes, I was pimping this match earlier and I thought I was the only one who liked it so much. Good stuff.
> 
> However, the distinct lack of Joe/Nigel from Liverpool in your top 10 saddens me.


I think you were at the time, its a fucking crime it didn't air or anything. I'll do a re-up cause I'm running awards for the board early next year and I want everyone to see this first.

As for Joe-Nigel, I really really liked it. It was great, told an awesome story, but I felt it really had two major flaws that took me out of it. One, the match really felt like two matches to me. One, they built a lot of hate and stuff throughout the 5YF and then they just did matwork for 20 minutes. Good matwork, but I wanted HATE, ya know? Then, the finish was good, but I guess I wanted more. I actually kinda take this back thinking about it, as I felt Apron Buster not working but falling to the choke was anti-climactic, but Joe can't hit an Avalanche Buster on Nigel or anything, so huzzah. Maybe a Island Driver would have worked. So top 25, ya probably. Not 10.


----------



## Blasko

New MOTYC for me...

MushiKing Terry vs Yoshinobu Kanemaru- ****1/4-****1/2.

Un-decided, but a really great match.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Wow, I was gonna skip that due to my intense Mushiking hate. Yoshinobu's been bringing it lately though, so huzzah.


----------



## watts63

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 10/27/07*
MushiKing Terry vs. Yoshinobu Kanemaru ****1/4


----------



## Blasko

MrPaiMei said:


> Wow, I was gonna skip that due to my intense Mushiking hate. Yoshinobu's been bringing it lately though, so huzzah.


 I'm not a big Terry fan e ither, but I can't deny that match was great.


----------



## T-C

I give major props to whoever it was that woke Kanemaru up, because for the last couple of months he has been back to what he is capable of. Another Kanemaru run at this stage is more interesting than anything they could have done with Terry as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Halifax

Don´t know if it is a motyc but I recently watched Hiroki Goto Vs. Hiroyoshi Tenzan. A really great brawl.


----------



## watts63

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 10/27/07*
D'lo Brown & Buchanan vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura ****-****1/4


----------



## gusbarba

D'lo Brown & Buchanan vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura ****


----------



## T-C

Halifax said:


> Don´t know if it is a motyc but I recently watched Hiroki Goto Vs. Hiroyoshi Tenzan. A really great brawl.


That was thoroughly enjoyable, and Tenzan was freakin' good in it, which is somehat of a collector's item these days.


----------



## peep4life

My ROH order finally can in, watch Dragon/Nigel from Driven. It gets ****3/4 from me. Really great intense match with a hot crowd and a fantastic finish.


----------



## McQueen

I also just saw that match and it's now my #1 MOTYC

My current top 10

1. Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness - **** 3/4 (ROH Driven)
2. Marufuji/Ibushi vs KENTA/Ishimori - **** 3/4 (7/15 NOAH)
3. John Cena vs Umaga (Last Man Standing) - **** 1/2 (WWE Royal Rumble)
4. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Yuji Nagata - **** 1/2 (NJPW 4/13)
5. John Cena vs Shawn Micheals - **** 1/2 (WWE Wrestlemania 23)
6. Bryan Danielson vs Go Shiozaki - **** 1/2 (ROH Live in Tokyo)
7. John Cena vs Randy Orton vs Edge vs HBK - **** 1/2 (WWE Backlash)
8. Jay & Mark Briscoe vs Motor City Machine Guns - **** 1/2 (ROH GTGM)
9. Bryan Danielson vs KENTA - **** 1/2 (ROH Driven)
10. Nigel McGuinness vs Samoa Joe - **** 1/2 (ROH FYF Liverpool)


----------



## ROH

These aren't legit MOTYCs (well, some are, w/e), but seeing as this is the thread where you post good matches and write about stuff about them so I think I might as well do that.

*Strong and PAC's recent PWG tag matches are amazing.*

DDT4N1: vs Super Dragon and Davey Richards. This was really good. Seeing as it was the first time Strong and PAC tagged, they made loads of (deliberate) miscommunications, and even purposely botched some double team moves. SD and Davey got great heat, PAC and Strong got over the n00b tagging really well and the action was great throughout. Cut off about 5 minutes and it could have been near MOTYC level. ****3/4_*****.

DDT4N2: vs Dio and Yoshino. MO'z are fucking awesome. They just 'get' tag team wrestling. Everything was as crisp as hell here, and Strong and PAC improved their teamwork slightly, which was a nice touch. Really great match. ****3/4_*****.

DDT4N2: vs the Briscoes. Storytelling wise this was a beautiful culmination of the tournament. The Briscoes played the cocky tough bastards great, and Strong and PAC were the n00b team who were (kayfabe) improving each time out, and they played that stuf off really well. The Briscoes dominated early, so Strong and PAC really stepped their tag game up to get control. In the end it was the Briscoes' cockiness (of the n00b team) that cost them, as Strong and PAC stepped it up quickly enough (hitting FLUID double teams this time out) to damage the Briscoes enough to actually beat them. It was great seeing the Briscoes lose for once. If not for a really annoying pacing flaw (thanks to the Briscoes) this would have been a big MOTYC. PAC's flips here were the best thing I've ever seen, too. *****1/4_1/2*.

Giant Size Annual 4: vs Kel Steenerico. This was fucking awesome. Strong and PAC were confident off their recent success. They expected nothing out of Kel Steenerico, because they never tag in PWG, but they tag together loads in ROH ('other promotions' noted by commentary) so they were a really strong team. Strong and PAC's sucessful matches didn't go very long, so the story of this were the team of Steenerico had more stamina than Strong/PAC, as this was Strong/PAC's longest match and happened to be were they lost for the first time. Add an immensely incredible finishing sequence (STANDING DRAGONRANA) and you have a MOTYC. *****1/2*.


----------



## Thisskateboarding

Danielson is having some sort of year! anyones top 5 could include:
vs McGuiness at Driven
vs Kenta III
vs Go Shiozaki
vs Morishima I
vs El Generico PWG Giant Size

And all those selections in anyones top 5 for MOTY could be justified.

Best In The World


----------



## PulseGlazer

Thisskateboarding said:


> Danielson is having some sort of year! anyones top 5 could include:
> vs McGuiness at Driven
> vs Kenta III
> vs Go Shiozaki
> vs Morishima I
> vs El Generico PWG Giant Size
> 
> And all those selections in anyones top 5 for MOTY could be justified.
> 
> Best In The World


Add in, at around the level of vs. Generico, Dragon vs. Aries from last night. 4 and a half. The sequences they put together were truly special.


----------



## harris11

I am partial to Dragon/Shima II, but that was live, will have to see how it is on DVD


----------



## watts63

*ROH Fifth Year Festival: Liverpool*
Samoa Joe vs. Nigel McGuinness ****1/4


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Man. Working through some of my backlog is going to be a heavy task. Here's a low end one.

Claudio Castagnoli vs. El Generico - Race to the Top Finals - ****

Truthfully, I'm floating anywhere between ***1/2 and **** on this, but I'll go with the latter, if only because it really sucked me in by the end. There were little things along the way that made it better than your average spotfest too...most notably touches in the execution that, intentional or not, made me believe that the finisher had been hit weakly enough to be kicked out of. The Avalanche Waterslide didn't look as nasty as the standard version, and the Ricola Bomb from the ground didn't have the usual impact to it. Like I said, no idea whether this was intentional, but it added believability to the nearfalls for me and made me enjoy this much more than an average spotfest. Not really a contender at this point, but still well worth watching.


----------



## Blasko

Mark vs Jay from Finale- **** 1/4 or even **** 1/2. 

STIFF/MOVEZ. Pretty good stuff.


----------



## watts63

After Watching 11 Months of Wrestling...

*ROH Driven
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA III ****3/4

ROH Good Times, Great Memories
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****3/4

CZW Out With The Old, In With The New
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero ****3/4

ROH Death Before Dishonor V Night Two
Roderick Strong, Davey Richards, Rocky Romero & Matt Sydal vs. Austin Aries, Erick Stevens, M-Dogg 20 & Delirious ****1/2-****3/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/03/07
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****1/2-****3/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/21/07
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****1/2

ROH Respect is Earned
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal & Claudio Castagnoli ****1/2

WWE Royal Rumble '07
John Cena vs. Umaga ****1/2

ROH Manhattan Mayhem II
Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson ****1/2

ROH Good Times, Great Memories
Takeshi Morishima vs. SHINGO ****1/2

WWE RAW 4/23/07
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels II ****1/2

PWG Based On A True Story
Joey Ryan vs. Human Tornado ****1/2

ROH Driven
Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness ****1/2

Dragon Gate Infinity #65
Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino & Magnitude Kishiwada vs. SHINGO, Cyber Kong & BxB Hulk vs. Susumu Yokosuka, Ryo Saito & Dragon Kid ****1/2 

PWG DDT4 Tag Team Title Tournament Night One
Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA ****1/4-****1/2

AJPW 2/17/07
Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima ****1/4-****1/2

ROH Live in Toyko
Bryan Danielson vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4-****1/2

WWE No Mercy '07
Triple H vs. Randy Orton II ****1/4-****1/2

PWG Holy Diver Down
Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin vs. Chris Bosh & Scott Lost ****1/4-****1/2

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Finale
Nigel McGuinness vs. Jimmy Rave ****1/4-****1/2

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi ****1/4-****1/2

ROH Supercard of Honor II
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer ****1/4

ROH Death Before Dishonor V Night One
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico ****1/4

ROH Race To The Top Tournament Night Two
Claudio Castagnoli vs. El Generico ****1/4 

AJPW/NJPW Supershow 1/4/07
Minoru Suzuki vs. Yuji Nagata ****1/4

FIP Battle of The Belts
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens ****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night Two
Low Ki vs. Samoa Joe ****1/4

ROH Supercard of Honor II
CIMA, SHINGO & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid & Masaaki Mochizuki ****1/4

NJPW 4/13/07
Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi ****1/4

Dragon Gate 4/17/07
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid, BxB Hulk, Anthony W. Mori & Matt Sydal vs. Magnitude Kishiwada, Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi, Gamma, Cyber Kong & Jack Evans ****1/4

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Liverpool
Samoa Joe vs. Nigel McGuinness ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 8/19/07
Takeshi Morishima vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4

PWG Holy Diver Down
Kevin Steen vs. PAC ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/24/07
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Rocky Romero & Taiji Ishimori ****1/4

Dragon Gate Infinity #64
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka & Ryo Saito vs. SHINGO, BxB Hulk & Cyber Kong ****1/4

NJPW 10/8/07
Ryusuke Taguchi vs. Minoru ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 10/27/07
MushiKing Terry vs. Yoshinobu Kanemaru ****1/4

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Finale
SHINGO & Naruki Doi vs. Roderick Strong & Davey Richards ****1/4

ROH All-Star Extravaganza III
CIMA, Ryo Saito, Susumu Yokosuka & Dragon Kid vs. Austin Aries, Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious & Rocky Romero ****-****1/4

WWE Vengeance '07
Edge vs. Batista ****-****1/4

ROH Live in Toyko
Takeshi Morishima vs. Nigel McGuinness II ****-****1/4

ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe ****-****1/4

IWA-MS Sunday Bloody Sunday
Necro Butcher vs. Masada ****-****1/4

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Dayton
Roderick Strong vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. M-Dogg 20 vs. Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO vs. Pelle Primeau ****-****1/4

CHIKARA Rey de Voladores
Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli ****-****1/4

ROH Fighting Spirit
El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. Jay Briscoe & Erick Stevens & Then Mark Briscoe ****-****1/4

NJPW 7/6/07
Yuji Nagata vs. Togi Makabe ****-****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
Low Ki vs. Davey Richards ****-****1/4

ROH Live in Toyko
Naomichi Marufuji, Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Matt Sydal, Ricky Marvin & Atsushi Aoki ****-****1/4

WWE Backlash '07
Batista vs. The Undertaker ****-****1/4

WWE Wrestlemania 23
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels ****-****1/4

King of Europe Cup '07 Night Two
Nigel McGuinness vs. Doug Williams ****-****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
El Generico vs. PAC ****-****1/4

WWE Backlash '07
John Cena vs. Edge vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton ****-****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 10/27/07
D'Lo Brown & Buchanan vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Takeshi Sugiura ****-****1/4

PWG Guitarmageddon II: Armoryageddon
El Generico & Quicksilver vs. Roderick Strong & Davey Richards ****-****1/4

IPW: UK Pre-Show 4/28/07
El Generico vs. PAC ****

SHIMMER Vol. 9
Amazing Kong vs. MsChif ****

WWE Wrestlemania 23
Batista vs. The Undertaker I ****

ROH Battle of St. Paul
Takeshi Morishima vs. Austin Aries ****

PWG Battle of Los Angeles '07 Night One
Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Dragon Kid & Sumusu Yokosuka ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: NYC
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima ****

Pro Wrestling NOAH 8/25/07
Jun Akiyama vs. Go Shiozaki ****

NJPW 2/18/07
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Koji Kanemoto ****

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
Roderick Strong vs. Rocky Romero ****

Pro Wrestling NOAH 9/21/07
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Naruki Doi & Genki Horiguchi ****

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/15/07
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki II ****

Pro Wrestling NOAH 7/06/07
Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: The Finale
Samoa Joe vs. Homicide ****

ROH Supercard of Honor II
Roderick Strong vs. Austin Aries ****

IWA-MS HURT 2007
Roderick Strong vs. Low Ki ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Philly
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen ****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Chicago
Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****

PWG All-Star Weekend V Night One
Kaz Hayashi vs. Alex Shelley ****

IWA-MS It's Gotta Be The Shoes
Chuck Taylor vs. Low Ki ****

ROH Fight At The Roxbury
Nigel McGuinness vs. Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Mike Quackenbush ****

ROH Fight At The Roxbury
Kevin Steen vs. Mark Briscoe **** 

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Liverpool
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. SHINGO & Naruki Doi ****

Dragon Gate Wrestle JAM 2 ???
Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Jimmy Rave & Muscle Gang vs. CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Dragon Kid & Matt Sydal vs. SHINGO, Cyber Kong, El Generico & Jack Evans ****

FIP New Years Classic '07
Roderick Strong & Jack Evans vs. SHINGO & Jimmy Rave ****

TNA Sacrifice '07
Chris Harris vs. James Storm ****

PWG 70|30
Alex Shelley vs. Rocky Romero ****

ROH Driven
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico ****

WWE Great American Bash '07
John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley ****

WWE New Year's Revolution '07
Randy Orton & Edge vs. Triple H & Shawn Michaels ****

CHIKARA Time Will Prove Everything
Eddie Kingston, Ruckus, Joker & Sabian vs. Hallowicked, Worker, Solider & Fire Ant **** 

AJPW 3/30/07
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Satoshi Kojima *****​
Damn I need a life lol.


----------



## Michael Kingston

I haven't seen some of the summer ROH matches yet so my early overall pick is Dragon vs. Nigel from Driven. My WWE MOTY is Cena/Umaga from the Rumble so far. I can't think of anything from TNA that I would consider MOTY which is sad given the talent they have.

The Whitmer/Jacobs cage match was pretty solid but I think will be a victim of being too early in the year.


----------



## dmcraigers

Marufuji/Kota vs Ishimora/Kenta is my current pick, one of the better tag team matches in a long time.


----------



## casper-21

I have to add to my list NOAH: Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki vs Taku Iwasa & Kenichiro Arai - GHC Junior Hw. Tag Team Title Match. Seen only now.


----------



## watts63

*PWG DDT4 Tag Team Title Tournament Night Two*
Roderick Strong & PAC vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/2


----------



## GenerationNeXt

ROH Good Times Great Memories
Shingo Vs Morishima - ****/****1/4

ROH Good Times Great Memories
Motor City Machine Guns Vs Briscoe Bros. - *****

ROH Fifth Year Festival: Philly
Steenerico Vs Briscoe Bros. - ****1/2

ROH Domination
Steenerico Vs QuackSaw - ****1/2

ROH Good Times Great Memories
Austin Aries Vs Rocky Romero - ****

ROH All Star Extravaganza 3 
Steel Cage Match BJ Whitmer Vs Jimmy Jacobs ****1/2

CZW Dishonorable Conduct
Drake Younger Vs Brain Damage - ****

ROH Death Before Dishonor V Night Two
Philly Street Fight (The Resilience & Delirious Vs The NRC & Matt Sydal) - ****1/2/****1/4

PWG Holy Diver Down
Kevin Steen Vs PAC - ****

PWG Holy Diver Down
Motor City Machine Guns Vs Arrogance - ****1/4

Pro Wrestling Noah 7/15/07
Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki Vs Briscoe Bros. - ****1/4

CHIKARA Cibernetico & Robin
The Olsen Twins Vs Up In Smoke - ****

IWA-MS Ted Petty Inventational 2007
Last Man Standing: Eddie Kingston Vs Chris Hero - ****


----------



## Legend

My favourite series this year:

*Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe*

@ Destination X for NWA Heavyweight Championship - **** 1/2 to **** 3/4
@ No Surrender - ****
@ Bound For Glory - **** 1/4 to **** 1/2
@ iMPACT - *** 3/4 to ****


----------



## KeepItFresh

Legend said:


> My favourite series this year:
> 
> *Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe*
> 
> @ Destination X for NWA Heavyweight Championship - **** 1/2 to **** 3/4
> @ No Surrender - ****
> @ Bound For Glory - **** 1/4 to **** 1/2
> @ iMPACT - *** 3/4 to ****


I was going to mention the first match there to someone who said he'd not see any MOTC from TNA, but I forgot what PPV it was on.


----------



## Legend

Keep_It_Fresh said:


> I was going to mention the first match there to someone who said he'd not see any MOTC from TNA, but I forgot what PPV it was on.


It's my MOTY so far. Better than anything WWE have put on imo. It's a bit stupid saying TNA has had no MOTY contenders really.


----------



## watts63

Legend said:


> It's my MOTY so far. Better than anything WWE have put on imo. It's a bit stupid saying TNA has had no MOTY contenders really.


I have seen their matches (except Impact) & I thought all of them were very good at best. The only great match I seen from TNA this year is James Storm vs. Chris Harris on Sacifrice & that's not even a legit MOTYC to me.


----------



## KeepItFresh

Legend said:


> It's my MOTY so far. Better than anything WWE have put on imo. It's a bit stupid saying TNA has had no MOTY contenders really.


Earlier this year many people had James Storm v.s Chris Harris in their MOTYCs. I had it at ***3/4-****. What would you rate it at?


----------



## Legend

watts63 said:


> I have seen their matches (except Impact) & I thought all of them were very good at best. The only great match I seen from TNA this year is James Storm vs. Chris Harris on Sacifrice & that's not even a legit MOTYC to me.


Really? Oh dear, I thought it was fantastic myself. To each his own I guess. I must admit I'm surprised you don't rate it that highly though :sad:



> Originally Posted by *Keep It Fresh*
> Earlier this year many people had James Storm v.s Chris Harris in their MOTYCs. I had it at ***3/4-****. What would you rate it at?


I actually have it around **** to **** 1/4 territory. It's another of my favourites this year. The fact that it was two former partners helped with incredible emotion also.


----------



## T-C

I don't know if it has been mentioned yet, but I just finished watching Takashi Sasaki vs Yuko Miyamoto(Scaffold Light Tube; BJPW Death Match Title) from March 14 and it was freakin' spectacular. I'm not high on current day deathmatches, but BJPW had been stellar at the start of the year, and this match was the pinnacle of that period.

Everyone needs to check it out, deathmatch fan or not.


----------



## watts63

Legend said:


> Really? Oh dear, I thought it was fantastic myself. To each his own I guess. I must admit I'm surprised you don't rate it that highly though :sad:


If it had more of a story in the beginning of the match, I would've. I thought their impact match was fantastic but sadly it didn't get enough time.


----------



## GenerationNeXt

watts63 said:


> If it had more of a story in the beginning of the match, I would've. I thought their impact match was fantastic but sadly it didn't get enough time.


watts I was looking at some matches that you had given ratings for and I decided to watch Briscoe Bros. Vs Marvin & Suzuki. This could be one of the best Briscoe Bros. matches i've ever seen, Ricky Marvin is also fuckin' awesome.


----------



## Blasko

T-C said:


> I don't know if it has been mentioned yet, but I just finished watching Takashi Sasaki vs Yuko Miyamoto(Scaffold Light Tube; BJPW Death Match Title) from March 14 and it was freakin' spectacular. I'm not high on current day deathmatches, but BJPW had been stellar at the start of the year, and this match was the pinnacle of that period.
> 
> Everyone needs to check it out, deathmatch fan or not.


Saw this match a little over a month ago. 

near **** 1/2, Sasaki is one of the best death match workers in BJW/The world and Miyamoto has a really bright future ahead of him. Both men, as I said this millions of times before, BLEED fighting spirit.


----------



## watts63

*BJPW 3/14/07*
Takashi Sasaki vs. Yuko Miyamoto ****1/2-****3/4

This was fucking awesome! This is definetly a must-see!


----------



## Briscoe

My current MOTYCs (all are **** 1/2 or above) 

Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuiness (ROH Driven) **** 3/4 
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs MCMG (ROH GTGM) **** 3/4 
Bryan Danielson vs Go Shiozaki (ROH Live in Tokyo) **** 1/2 
Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima (ROH MM II) **** 1/2 
Bryan Danielson vs Kenta (ROH Driven) **** 1/2 
BJ Whitmer vs Jimmy Jacobs (ROH SOH II) **** 1/2 
Kenta & Taiji Ishimori vs Naomichi Marufiji & Kota Ibushi (NOAH 7.15) **** 1/2 
Chris Hero vs Eddie Kingston (CZW Out With The Old,In With The New) **** 1/2 
CIMA, SHINGO & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid & Masaaki Mochizuki (ROH SOH II) **** 1/2


----------



## El Conquistador

IWA-MS TPI 2007: Chris Hero vs. Eddie Kingston; Last Man Standing -- ****1/4


----------



## MrPaiMei

MAN do I need to start watching BJPW.


----------



## alexgem

I've just watched the full version of ROH PPV Driven, with also the bonus matches, and I must say that both Danielson/McGuinness and Danielson/KENTA are very serious MOTYC. I'd rate both of them around ****1/2, but being a huge KENTA mark I can't be objective in saying which is better.
I think that everybody knows about Danielson/McGuinness,unfortunately Danielson/KENTA seems much less known about, I'd recommend anyone who hasn't seen it to check it out!


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Went through a trilogy of sorts on a comp I made in the time before work. I do that sometimes. Anywho, shorter explanations than usual, as I must be off.

RoH Title: Takeshi Morishima (c) vs. Claudio Castagnoli - ****1/4

I really enjoyed this, a lot more than I thought I would. They basically play it up as an epic slugfest between two big bruisers and it's a ton of fun in that regard. Morishima eats Claudio's finishers, but whatcha gonna do?

RoH Title: Takeshi Morishima (c) vs. Brent Albright - ****1/4

I've never really understood the Albright hate. Of course, I've only really seen OVW work with Punk and his awesome underdog work as Gunner Scott, so I may be missing something. Still, he makes this match awesome by looking like he's scouted Morishima and taking it to him throughout most of it. Sometimes a break in the formula is all that's needed, and it led to a great match here. On par, if not a little better, than the Castagnoli match.

RoH Title: Takeshi Morishima (c) vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Brent Albright - ****

Not as good as the singles matches, but works well as a kind of compressed version of them. Everybody brings something new to the table and it works out in making the match an absolute blast to watch. Have to say though, after seeing how they work together and with the way Claudio eliminated Albright, this made me more interested in a match between those two than anything else. Fun stuff.


----------



## starttheinfeKKtion

watts63 said:


> *BJPW 3/14/07*
> Takashi Sasaki vs. Yuko Miyamoto ****1/2-****3/4
> 
> This was fucking awesome! This is definetly a must-see!


Yeah I saw this a while ago too, and I loved it. Just the way they used the lightubes was great. They weren't just hitting each other with them just to hit each other with them..

It totally is a must-see, deathmatch fan or not.


----------



## musdy

D'lo Brown & Buchanan vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura- ****1/4

I loved the team of RO'D, they showed some intensity that really brought a big match feel to this match.


----------



## antoniomare007

i know this is off topic, but what happened to the Wrestling Media section?? 

i can't find it anywhere


----------



## Blasko

Eddie Kingston vs Chris Hero, TPI 07.

**** 1/2 or EVEN **** 3/4's What I saw was brutal and so emotional, much better then their CZW match IMO.


----------



## watts63

-Blasko- said:


> Eddie Kingston vs Chris Hero, TPI 07.
> 
> **** 1/2 or EVEN **** 3/4's What I saw was brutal and so emotional, much better then their CZW match IMO.


Just finished watching it & I honestly don't think it was better than their Loser Leaves CZW match but it was definetly better than their other encounters.

****1/4-****1/2


----------



## BETTERthanYOU44

I know this was already mentioned but I just watched it tonight and good lord I loved it. Definite MOTY candidate and maybe the MOTY for me. Probably others will disagree since they've seen more wrestling this year and bought more DVDs than me but I loved it.

4 & 3/4 stars - 5 stars


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

BETTERthanYOU44 said:


> I know this was already mentioned but I just watched it tonight and good lord I loved it. Definite MOTY candidate and maybe the MOTY for me. Probably others will disagree since they've seen more wrestling this year and bought more DVDs than me but I loved it.
> 
> 4 & 3/4 stars - 5 stars


Um...you forgot the part where you mention what match you're talking about.


----------



## gerrardlfc

hahaha thanks


----------



## gerrardlfc

thanks a lot man


----------



## Blasko

gerrardlfc said:


> thanks a lot man


----------



## eddicts

New Japan Pro Wrestling 11/11/07
*IWGP Heavyweight Title
- Hiroshi Tanahashi (c) vs. Hirooki Goto*
****3/4

my current MOTY

Watch this now!

Part 1
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=21994312
Part 2
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=21994493


----------



## casper-21

Thanks a lot for the link.


----------



## PulseGlazer

watts63 said:


> Just finished watching it & I honestly don't think it was better than their Loser Leaves CZW match but it was definetly better than their other encounters.
> 
> ****1/4-****1/2


I'm with Watts here.


----------



## T-C

Tana/Goto was completely great. Tana and Santino are really the only things in wrestling that interest me right now and Tanahashi is single handedly putting on enough good matches to keep me watching actual matches. Goto hsa become very, very good aswell, and there is no doubt to his potential and charisma.

I would put this on a par with or possibly even better than the April classic.

Is it possible for Tana to have a bad match these days? (without mentioning Akebono)


----------



## MrPaiMei

New Japan is fucking awesome.


----------



## PulseGlazer

eddicts said:


> New Japan Pro Wrestling 11/11/07
> *IWGP Heavyweight Title
> - Hiroshi Tanahashi (c) vs. Hirooki Goto*
> ****3/4
> 
> my current MOTY
> 
> Watch this now!
> 
> Part 1
> http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=21994312
> Part 2
> http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=21994493



**** if that. Goto uses running strikes, so Tanahashi takes out the knee. Goto continues running strikes, even mixing in kicks with his hurt leg. They then forget the knee and beat the shit out of each other for a bit, Goto again with running strikes, and Tanahashi again comes at the knee to control. Eventually Tanahashi starts to lose when Goto uses punches and head drops, which works, except the knee is again ignored. Then Tanahashi counters, fine, he's established as the better technical wrestler by far by now, and locks in another cloverleaf for the tap after the long ignored knee work. What the hell.


----------



## The_Boogey_Man

MrPaiMei said:


> MAN do I need to start watching BJPW.


Yeah but only there deathmatches or main events or anything involving Daisuke Sekimoto. The undercards are pretty bland and are only good every so often. 

As far as the Miyamoto-Saski match, i absolutly agree with what everyone has said so far. If you watched the set up and the events prior to the match, it becomes even more awesome. you have the epic story, The deathmatch champion vs. The up and comer looking for acceptance and prove himself. This match was brillantly preformed and really shows off the athleticism of these two. The crowd was hot for this match and was really into it as well. The scaffolding spots also made sense and weren't overused. The D-Giest (Emerald Fusion) by saski was a crazy spot.Im really gonna go out on a limb and say this that this might be the best deathmatch ever.

Easily ****1/2.

BJW has had a fantastic year with some great DM title matches. Obivously Miyamoto-Saski stands out, but also look into Sasaki vs. Ryuji Ito in 300 light tubes, Miyamoto vs. Jaki Numazawa in a No Rope Barbd wire Match, and Abdullah Kobyashi vs. Jaki Numazawa in the 444 Light tubes match.


----------



## casper-21

<b>MOTY 2007</b>
1. Bryan Daneilson - KENTA III - ROH Driven
1. Bryan Danielson - Nigel McGuinness - ROH Domination
2. Briscoes - Naruki Doi & Shingo I - ROH FYF Liverpool
3. Hiroshi Tanahashi - Hirooki Goto - NJPW
4. Briscoes - Claudio Castagnoli & Matt Sydal - ROH Respect Is Earned
5. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori - Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi - NOAH
6. Briscoes - Kevin Steen & El Generico - street fight - ROH DBD4
7. Jun Akiyama & Takeshi Rikio - Yoshihiro Takayama & Takashi Sugiura - NOAH
8. Jay Briscoe - Mark Briscoe - ROH FYF Final
9. Bryan Danielson & Nigel McGuinness - Takeshi Morishima & Naomichi Marufuji - ROH United We Stand
10. Briscoes - Kevin Steen & El Generico - 2/3 - ROH MM2
11. El Generico - Pac - PWG ASW5
12. Briscoes - Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin - ROH Good Times Great Memories
13. CIMA, Pac, Susumu Yokosuka & Dragon Kid - Shingo, Cyber Kong, Jack Evans & El Generico - Dragon Gate
14. Mike Quackenbush - Chris Hero - Chikara Aniversario
15. Bryan Danielson - Go Shiozaki - ROH Live in Japan
16. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki - Taku Iwasa & Kenichiro Arai - NOAH
17. Hiroshi Tnahashi - Yuji Nagata I - NJPW
18. Yuji Nagata - Shinsuke Nakamura - NJPW G-1 Climax
19. Masato Tanaka - Daisuke Sekimoto - Zero-1 Fire Festival


----------



## Sephiroth

Casper, even tho Dragon-Nigel was taped live at Domination, i think it's a lot easier and less confusing to just say it's from Driven because it was on the actual PPV and on the DVD.

edit: I can't wait till 11/30 and seeing everyone's MOTYC lists shifted down one because of a certain ladder match . it's MOTY i'm telling you.

i really hope it's not a bias for being there live or i'm such a mark for both teams


----------



## Halifax

eddicts said:


> New Japan Pro Wrestling 11/11/07
> *IWGP Heavyweight Title
> - Hiroshi Tanahashi (c) vs. Hirooki Goto*
> ****3/4
> 
> my current MOTY
> 
> Watch this now!
> 
> Part 1
> http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=21994312
> Part 2
> http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=21994493


Thanks a lot. An awesome match. The match is up there as the motyc as well as an another match with Goto. I really like Goto Vs Tenzan as well.


----------



## The Great Maijin

Nothing has really stood out to me this year. Good matches but not match of the year. You could throw some matches as candidates but there definately not going to win it. Only thing that really stood out was Briscoes Vs Marvin/Suzuki 1/21. It was just an amazing match. Not perfect but still a great match. Slammiversary's KOTM was good to. Haven't had chance to see any new ROH stuff of much puro as I want.


----------



## The Great Maijin

Oh yeah, I forgot, I think Batista Vs Undertaker WM23 is WAY overrated and So is WM23. It just isn't that good.


----------



## Halifax

Just watched Chuck Taylor against Jimmy Jacobs. a really good match and much better than I expected.


----------



## McQueen

I didn't realize till about a week after I had Driven that the McGuinness/Danielson match was from Domination. Almost a shame that it isn't on the original show it was intended to be on because it would have made Domination go from a good show to a great show.

Still I enjoyed Domination more than a lot of the other ROH shows from this year for some reason.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

The Great Maijin said:


> Nothing has really stood out to me this year. Good matches but not match of the year. You could throw some matches as candidates but there definately not going to win it. Only thing that really stood out was Briscoes Vs Marvin/Suzuki 1/21. It was just an amazing match. Not perfect but still a great match. Slammiversary's KOTM was good to. Haven't had chance to see any new ROH stuff of much puro as I want.


That's completely impossible.

MOTY is related to the overall quality of the matches each year. Even if you don't find anything to be a **** match, a *** match could be your MOTY as long as it was your top match.

In other words, it is IMPOSSIBLE not to have a Match of the Year without actually ceasing to watch wrestling entirely.

I do find your attempts to sound like a high class, discerning fan amusing though.


----------



## Saint Dick

What's the general consensus on HHH/Orton LMS?


----------



## Sephiroth

Cena/Umaga > Orton/HHH > Batista/Taker

that's my opinion


----------



## Saint Dick

Match ratings?


----------



## watts63

Sephiroth said:


> Cena/Umaga > Orton/HHH > Batista/Taker
> 
> that's my opinion


Here's mine...

Cena/Umaga (LMS) > HBK/Cena (60 Minutes) > Orton/HHH (LMS) > Batista/Undertaker (LMS)


----------



## Saint Dick

I may need to re-watch Cena/Umaga. I only saw it once, didn't think it was as good as HHH/Orton, HBK/Cena and the Backlash fatal 4 way.


----------



## Undertaker777

Cena/Umaga > Fatal Four Way > Batista/Taker > HHH/Orton > HBK/Cena


----------



## Saint Dick

I just re-watched HHH/Orton and my final rating is ****1/4.

My WWE MOTYCs as of now:

1. HBK/Cena - Raw - ****1/2
2. HHH/Orton - No Mercy - ****1/4
3. Cena/HBK/Edge/Orton - Backlash - ****1/4
4. Cena/Umaga - Royal Rumble - ****1/4
5. Batista/Taker - WrestleMania - ****

I also have Batista/Taker from Backlash, Batista/Taker from Cyber Sunday, Cena/Orton from SummerSlam and DX/Rated RKO from NYR at ****.


----------



## -Mystery-

Finised watching massive amounts of ROH and here are the MOTYCs I came across...

-Danielson/Nigel (Driven) - ****3/4
-Briscoes/Steen & Generico (Driven) - ****
-Danielson/KENTA (Driven) - ****3/4
-Claudio/Morishima (DBD V Night 1) - ****1/4
-Briscoes/Steen & Generico (DBD V Night 1) - ****1/2
-Albright/Morishima (DBD V Night 2) - ****1/2
-Resilience & Delirious/NRC & Sydal (DBD V Night 2) - ****3/4
-Claudio/Albright/Morishima (Caged Rage) - ****
-Briscoes/Steen & Generico (Caged Raged) - ****
-Danielson/Morishima (MM II) - ****3/4
-Briscoes/Steen & Generico (MM II) - ****1/2


----------



## Word

Ownage™ said:


> My WWE MOTYCs as of now:
> 
> 1. HBK/Cena - Raw - ****1/2
> 2. HHH/Orton - No Mercy - ****1/4
> 3. Cena/HBK/Edge/Orton - Backlash - ****1/4
> 4. Cena/Umaga - Royal Rumble - ****1/4
> 5. Batista/Taker - WrestleMania - ****


I got Batista/Undertaker at ****1/4 due to the circumstances that it faced. Having said that I have Cena/Umaga and the Fatal Four Way at ****1/2 and I cant give it any lower or higher. I dont know what to give the top MOTYC tbh, it would go something like this:

1. Cena/Umaga - Royal Rumble *****1/2*
2. Fatal Four Way - Backlash *****1/2*
3. Batista/Undertaker - Wrestlemania *****1/4*
4. HBK/Cena - RAW *****1/4*
=. Orton/HHH - No Mercy *****1/4*

Don't know which way to put RAW & No Mercy match. Equally as good in their own different ways.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Yuji Nagata 3 ****1/4-1/2
Tanahashi vs. Goto ****1/4-1/2 
Both are top 10 worthy.


----------



## Undertaker777

John Cena VS Umaga Royal Rumble **** 1\2
John Cena VS HBK VS Orton VS Edge Backlash**** 1\4-**** 1\2
Batista VS Undertaker Wrestlemania ****-**** 1\4
DX VS RKO New Year’s Revolution ****
Batista vs Undertaker Backlash ****
Cena VS HBK Wrestlemania ****
Cena VS HBK Raw ****
Triple H VS Orton No mercy ****
Triple H/Umaga Cyber Sunday ****
Batista/Taker Cyber Sunday ****


----------



## PulseGlazer

Undertaker777 said:


> John Cena VS Umaga Royal Rumble **** 1\2
> John Cena VS HBK VS Orton VS Edge Backlash**** 1\4-**** 1\2
> Batista VS Undertaker Wrestlemania ****-**** 1\4
> DX VS RKO New Year’s Revolution ****
> Batista vs Undertaker Backlash ****
> Cena VS HBK Wrestlemania ****
> Cena VS HBK Raw ****
> Triple H VS Orton No mercy ****
> Triple H/Umaga Cyber Sunday ****
> Batista/Taker Cyber Sunday ****



I just realized, the Ladder Match from last Year's Armaggedon was on the cutoff date. I'd go with that or Cena vs. Umaga as #1 for my WWE list.


----------



## Undertaker777

PulseGlazer said:


> I just realized, the Ladder Match from last Year's Armaggedon was on the cutoff date.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Most sites, the Observer included, use about Dec. 16 as the cutoff date for MOTYC's so anything after that date would go on the next year's list.


----------



## Undertaker777

PulseGlazer said:


> Most sites, the Observer included, use about Dec. 16 as the cutoff date for MOTYC's so anything after that date would go on the next year's list.


I'm not going to use any confusing stuff and just say matches from this year.:agree:. 4 Way ladder match is ****


----------



## -GP-

It was on the cut-off date, but was on a 2006 PPV...my guess the date is there is because that's the year's last PPV. 
Could be wrong though...were there any indy shows with MOTYCs between the 16th and New Year's?


----------



## Claymore

cp_punk said:


> It was on the cut-off date, but was on a 2006 PPV...my guess the date is there is because that's the year's last PPV.
> Could be wrong though...were there any indy shows with MOTYCs between the 16th and New Year's?


Final Battle was in between those two dates my friend. The 23rd of December I think it was, if I am mistaken then I apologise. And perhaps it may not be a MOTYC now - The KOW/Brisoces match on that card was very highly rated....


----------



## M.S.I.I.

I'm usually not a "star-guy." But I'll only break my rule to make it easier for everyone in the thread.

*TNA*
Joe vs. Cage III (Bound For Glory) ****1/2
Joe vs. Cage I (Destination-X) ****
Angle vs. Joe III: 30-Minute Ironman (Final Resolution) ****
Harris vs. Storm: Last Man Standing (Sacrifice) ****
Kazarian vs. Cage: Ladder Match (Genesis) ****
Lethal vs. Angle (No Surrender) ****
LAX vs. XXX: Ultimate-X (Bound For Glory) ****
Angle vs. Cage vs. Styles vs. Joe vs. Harris: KOTM (Slammiversary) ****

*WWE*
Cena vs. Umaga: Last Man Standing (Royal Rumble) ****
Taker vs. Batista (Wrestlemania 23) ****
Cena vs. Michaels (RAW) ****

That's the only matches I can think of right now, so don't jump on me if I forgot some.


----------



## -GP-

Claymore said:


> Final Battle was in between those two dates my friend. The 23rd of December I think it was, if I am mistaken then I apologise. And perhaps it may not be a MOTYC now - The KOW/Brisoces match on that card was very highly rated....


Yeah,I remember that, my point was that if there were any MOTYCs, and any of those turn up on the Observer's MOTYC, then we'll know that's where they cut it off, and it's not just an informal way of saying "2006 is done"


----------



## Claymore

cp_punk said:


> Yeah,I remember that, my point was that if there were any MOTYCs, and any of those turn up on the Observer's MOTYC, then we'll know that's where they cut it off, and it's not just an informal way of saying "2006 is done"


Yeah, I completely understand what you are saying...No problem at all.


----------



## TripleG

Unfortunately most of what I watched this year was TNA, and very little WWE (and even less of other feds) so my list is probably going to get ripped apart, but who cares. 

Oh, and I hate star ratings, so I'm not going to use them. 

*TNA*

Samoa Joe vs. Christian Cage: World Title at Destination X

Chris Sabin vs. Jay Lethal vs. Alex Shelley vs. Sonjay Dutt vs. Shark Boy: X Title Xscape Match at Lockdown

Team Angle vs. Team Cage: Lethal Lockdown Match at Lockdown

Chris Sabin vs. Sonjay Dutt vs. Jay Lethal: X Title 3 Way at Sacrifice

Chris Harris vs. James Storm: Texas Deathmatch at Sacrfice (my pick of MOTY) 

Chris Harris vs. James Storm: KOTM Qualifying Match on Impact

Eric Young vs. Robert Roode: Freedom Match at Slammiversary (I loved this match so BACK OFF!!!) 

Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe vs. Christian Cage vs. AJ Styles vs. Chris Harris; King of the Mountain World Title Match at Slammiversary

Kurt Angle vs. Rhino vs. Christian Cage: World Title 3 Way on Impact

Christopher Daniels vs. Senshi vs. Elix Skipper vs. Kaz vs. Homicide vs. Jay Lethal vs. Petey Williams vs. Puma vs. Shark Boy vs. Sonjay Dutt: Ultimate X Gauntlet

Sting vs. Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe vs. AJ Styles; 4 Way to Determine Kurt Angle's Tag Title Partner on Impact

Kurt Angle vs. Jay Lethal: X Title at No Surrender

Samoa Joe vs. Christian Cage: No Surrender 

Samoa Joe/Junior Fatu/LAX vs. Christian Cage/AJ Styles/Christopher Daniels/Senshi: Main Event to 1st 2 hour Impact. 

LAX vs. XXX: Ultimate X Match at Bound for Glory

Christopher Daniels vs. Jay Lethal: X Title at Bound for Glory

Samoa Joe vs. Christian Cage: Bound for Glory

Kurt Angle vs. Sting: Bound for Glory

Christian Cage vs. Kaz: Impact

The Motor City Machine Guns vs. Team 3D: Genesis

Christian Cage vs. Kaz: Ladder Match at Genesis

*WWE*

John Cena vs. Umaga: WWE Title Last Man Standing at Royal Rumble

Royal Rumble Match from Royal Rumble (particularly the closing minutes with Taker/Shawn) 

Undertaker vs. Batista: World Title at Wrestlemania 23

John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels: WWE Title at Wrestlemania 23

John Cena vs. Randy Orton vs. Edge vs. Shawn Michaels: Backlash 

Undertaker vs. Batista: World Title Cage Match on SD

The Hardy Boyz vs. World's Greatest Tag Team: Ladder Match for Tag Titles at One Night Stand

Undertaker vs. Batista: World Title at Cyber Sunday

I know the WWE list is really short, but I just haven't watched enough of it to make a really long list. And before anyone asks, Michaels vs. Cena from Italy is not my list because I haven't seen it.


----------



## stevethegreat

I've only watched a handful of ROH matches this year and mostly WWE all year so here's my list of MOTYC:

John Cena vs Umaga, Royal Rumble 2007
John Cena vs Shawn Michaels, Wrestlemania XXIII
Undertaker vs Batista, Wrestlemania XXIII
Shawn Michaels vs John Cena, 04/23/07
Shawn Michaels vs Edge vs Randy Orton vs John Cena, Backlash 2007
John Cena vs Randy Orton, Summerslam 2007
Randy Orton vs HHH, No Mercy 2007
The Brisco Brothers vs The Murder City Machine Guns, 04/28/07
The Brisco Brothers vs The Kings Of Wrestling, 06/09/07
The Brisco Brothers vs Naruki Doi/Shingo Takagi, 03/03/07


----------



## Sephiroth

i think November 30th is a good cutoff for MOTYC list. it's the last ROH PPV of the year and suitably the last indy stuff we'll see unless you go to a live show. 

plus with the rumor of the California/Vegas show and GBH weekend being released next Friday, lots of people can be caught up till the 3rd PPV. but i don't think the 11/30 Dayton show should be considered if they have anything that can be considered MOTYC.


----------



## ryo7200

What do people see so good in the Cena/Umaga match at Royal Rumble? It's just the same Last Man Standing match as the others, it's standard.


----------



## -Mystery-

ryo7200 said:


> What do people see so good in the Cena/Umaga match at Royal Rumble? It's just the same Last Man Standing match as the others, it's standard.


You do realize that makes no sense seeing how Cena/Umaga happened before any of the other LMS matches thus if any match is like another, the other LMS matches are like Cena/Umaga.


----------



## Word

Its probably WWE MOTY so far. I think a lot of people will disagree but this was a great match and the start of the year and people have challenged to beat it but I don't think they have. It gets quite underrated due to how long ago it was, people just forge and downgrade it.


----------



## TripleG

-Mystery- said:


> You do realize that makes no sense seeing how Cena/Umaga happened before any of the other LMS matches thus if any match is like another, the other LMS matches are like Cena/Umaga.


Well LMS has been fairly common over the last decade or so. I interpreted what he said as Cena/Umaga being just a standard LMS match in general when put into comparrison to all LMS matches. 

Now my problem with LMS matches is that they tend to follow the same format: 

Do a spot, count to 10, do a spot, count to 10.


----------



## -Mystery-

TripleG said:


> Well LMS has been fairly common over the last decade or so. I interpreted what he said as Cena/Umaga being just a standard LMS match in general when put into comparrison to all LMS matches.
> 
> Now my problem with LMS matches is that they tend to follow the same format:
> 
> Do a spot, count to 10, do a spot, count to 10.


I agree that the psychology of LMS matches is flawed. However, if memory serves me correct, there weren't many 10 counts in the Cena/Umaga match. Granted I haven't seen the match in awhile so I could be wrong.


----------



## Word

This match shows where Umaga should be. I cant remember if it was one spot 10 count and so on but I don't care about that. It was the great physiological chemistry they had with them that made it work. After all it still made Umaga look strong as he had to pass out to win and not get lazy with the 10 count. The improvisation was good with different weapons being used such as the ropes. I liked it, no reason why it shouldn't be MOTY.


----------



## M.S.I.I.

I know I'm not the only one who thought Harris vs. Storm: Last Man Standing (Texas Deathmatch) was better than Cena/Umaga, and any other Last Man Standing match this year.

It had all you ever wanted in a Last Man standing match. 

Lots of Blood, Lots of Weapons, Lots of Spots, A Story, Brawling, Atmosphere, Chemistry, Tension, and A Great Finish.

One of the Best Matches this year. I haven't seen a Last Man Standing that Good in Forever.


----------



## Word

Yeah I separate different matches from different brands. So if we were to talk about other LMS, TNA and the rest wouldn't be involved. I have only seen half of that match and tbh I cant remember anything of it.


----------



## T-C

Harris and Storm was good and really bloody, but it isn't in the same league as Cena/Umaga psychology and storytelling wise.


----------



## M.S.I.I.

T-C said:


> Harris and Storm was good and really bloody, but it isn't in the same league as Cena/Umaga psychology and storytelling wise.


It's a last man standing match. What type of Psychology is supposed to be involved? It's supposed to be a brawl. Brawls don't have psychology.

If by Psychology you mean Chemistry, then yes Harris/Storm have great chemistry, they've tagged together for over 5 years.


----------



## Sephiroth

i don't wanna be that guy but....

IWA: MS "Ted Petty Invitational" - Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero (Last Man Standing) ****3/4*

it was great, but i enjoyed the CZW singles match much better. also i loved the selling by Kingston and i could feel the hate between the two, but it just didn't have it all. the brawling at the beginning was ok, but i thought it was kind of boring. even when they did the suplex spot on the table that didn't break. ouch tho. the great stuff i enjoyed tho started when they got in the ring. Hero just brutalizes Eddie's hand and he does a fantastic job of pretty much selling everything. when his nose gets busted open, damn that was nuts. later in the match when Eddie had a chair around his neck, the crvate-aclasm by Hero was probably the ugliest looking move i've ever seen and i'd be embarrassed if i used a move like that. i absolutely hated the ending tho. when they had the guardrail up in the corner, the whole time i'm thinking, "oh god, just don't do it" because of the metal bar sticking out. it just looked so dangerous and stupid considering if Eddie would have moved to the left just a little bit, i can't imagine what could have happened to Chris. the possibilities range from being impaled by it or breaking his neck. it was just something i just didn't want to see and was relieved when the match finally ended. i don't know, i heard great things about it and expected a little more. in the end it was a great match, but not ****+ like some have been saying. i would have gone *** 1/2, but the selling by Kingston really left and impression so i had to go a little higher. both guys busted their asses off and you should go out of your way to check out the whole weekend tournament.


----------



## -Mystery-

M.S.I.I. said:


> It's a last man standing match. What type of Psychology is supposed to be involved? It's supposed to be a brawl. *Brawls don't have psychology.*
> 
> If by Psychology you mean Chemistry, then yes Harris/Storm have great chemistry, they've tagged together for over 5 years.


Yes, they do. There has to be a reason for certain parts of the brawl to occur. You just don't brawl for no reason. Also, some people like myself place selling under the category of psychology and you most certainly should be selling during a brawl or working over a body part that might be injured coming into the match or occurs during the match.


----------



## Word

After reading what crippler=crossface read on Undertaker/Batista HIAC, was one of the best psychological matches WWE has put on for years.


----------



## T-C

M.S.I.I. said:


> It's a last man standing match. What type of Psychology is supposed to be involved? It's supposed to be a brawl. Brawls don't have psychology.
> 
> If by Psychology you mean Chemistry, then yes Harris/Storm have great chemistry, they've tagged together for over 5 years.


The whole psychology and story of the match was that Cena was going into a war with an unstoppable monster. The story was played out perfectly throughout, as I've explained earlier in this thread, to the point that after the match you don't feel that Cena has beaten Umaga but he has survived Umaga.


----------



## M.S.I.I.

-Mystery- said:


> Yes, they do. There has to be a reason for certain parts of the brawl to occur. You just don't brawl for no reason. Also, some people like myself place selling under the category of psychology and you most certainly should be selling during a brawl or working over a body part that might be injured coming into the match or occurs during the match.


I agree that there is a reason the brawl occurs.

But besides that, brawls have no psychology what so ever. Think about it. If you've ever been in a real fight, when you're fighting that person, you're not concerned about psychology, you're concerned about beating his ass, and hurting him as much as possible, at whatever cost. That's the mind set. That's what a brawl is. Brawls don't involve much psychology.

And there was plenty of good selling in this match-up if you've seen it, and there was a story behind it. 

I could see your point though, if they just randomly showed up and started hitting one another with randomized weapons back and forth.


----------



## T-C

M.S.I.I. said:


> I agree that there is a reason the brawl occurs.
> 
> But besides that, brawls have no psychology what so ever. Think about it. If you've ever been in a real fight, when you're fighting that person, you're not concerned about psychology, you're concerned about beating his ass, and hurting him as much as possible, at whatever cost. That's the mind set. That's what a brawl is. Brawls don't involve much psychology.
> 
> And there was plenty of good selling in this match-up if you've seen it, and there was a story behind it.
> 
> I could see your point though, if they just randomly showed up and started hitting one another with randomized weapons back and forth.


You clearly don't understand what ring psychology is.

As what you just described as a wild brawl or fight is what the psycholgy for a brawl should be in a wrestling match, in order to get the fans to invest in the story of the match.


----------



## M.S.I.I.

T-C said:


> You clearly don't understand what ring psychology is.
> 
> As what you just described as a wild brawl or fight is what the psycholgy for a brawl should be in a wrestling match, in order to get the fans to invest in the story of the match.


Ah I see.

I stand wrong then.

But still doesn't pass the fact that it was an excellent Last Man Standing Match.


----------



## -GP-

M.S.I.I. said:


> I agree that there is a reason the brawl occurs.
> 
> But besides that, brawls have no psychology what so ever. Think about it. If you've ever been in a real fight, when you're fighting that person, you're not concerned about psychology, you're concerned about beating his ass, and hurting him as much as possible, at whatever cost. That's the mind set. That's what a brawl is. Brawls don't involve much psychology.
> 
> And there was plenty of good selling in this match-up if you've seen it, and there was a story behind it.
> 
> I could see your point though, if they just randomly showed up and started hitting one another with randomized weapons back and forth.


I'm sorry, but i don't agree with that.

If there is no psychology in a brawl (not a real brawl, a Pro Wrestling brawl) then we shouldn't enjoy (as matches) any of Foley's matches, or any of the Cells - not a big fan tbh, but still - or any of the ladder matches even - essentially a spotfest brawl.

By saying that a LMS match is bad because it follows the same spot->count->spot->count formula is like saying that a normla singles match is bad because it's move->pin->move->pin.

Cena-Umaga is my WWE MOTY thus far. Not my overall MOTY, but WWE's MOTY none the less. It had emotion, power, impressive spots and spot-on booking.

Harris-Storm was good and everything, but it was a whole other league...just the feeling and importance of it as a match didn't match Cena-Umaga.


----------



## Sephiroth

if you guys wanna discuss psychology in brawls, did you guys check this out yet?

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/380553-guide-storytelling-pro-wrestling.html


----------



## M.S.I.I.

cp_punk said:


> I'm sorry, but i don't agree with that.
> 
> If there is no psychology in a brawl (not a real brawl, a Pro Wrestling brawl) then we shouldn't enjoy (as matches) any of Foley's matches, or any of the Cells - not a big fan tbh, but still - or any of the ladder matches even - essentially a spotfest brawl.
> 
> By saying that a LMS match is bad because it follows the same spot->count->spot->count formula is like saying that a normla singles match is bad because it's move->pin->move->pin.
> 
> Cena-Umaga is my WWE MOTY thus far. Not my overall MOTY, but WWE's MOTY none the less. It had emotion, power, impressive spots and spot-on booking.
> 
> Harris-Storm was good and everything, but it was a whole other league...just the feeling and importance of it as a match didn't match Cena-Umaga.


The importance of the match probably wasn't as big because there was no title involved. But the pride of both wrestlers, definitely was, storyline wise. And I still think in terms of what happened in the ring, Harris/Storm delivered a better match.


----------



## ROH

Sephiroth said:


> if you guys wanna discuss psychology in brawls, did you guys check this out yet?
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/380553-guide-storytelling-pro-wrestling.html


YAY I GOT LINKED!

Thanks Sephy


----------



## lizmark

*ROH FYF: NYC*

Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima 

****1/4 

I know. I watched it little late, but good match still.


----------



## -GP-

Sephiroth said:


> if you guys wanna discuss psychology in brawls, did you guys check this out yet?
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/380553-guide-storytelling-pro-wrestling.html


Actually i'm one of the Grand Total of Two (2) people who actually posted there!


----------



## ROH

cp_punk said:


> Actually i'm one of the Grand Total of Two (2) people who actually posted there!


You're a good man, cp_punk.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Sephiroth said:


> i think November 30th is a good cutoff for MOTYC list. it's the last ROH PPV of the year and suitably the last indy stuff we'll see unless you go to a live show.
> 
> plus with the rumor of the California/Vegas show and GBH weekend being released next Friday, lots of people can be caught up till the 3rd PPV. but i don't think the 11/30 Dayton show should be considered if they have anything that can be considered MOTYC.


I'm gonna be doing MOTY voting for the board (in addition to making a comp of the eventual top 10 or 20). I'm gonna make a topic after the 11/30 and 12/1 doubleshot to discuss what we feel should be included, what shouldn't, if we should wait for certain things to be release4d, etc etc.


----------



## KingKicks

Finally got round to start watching my ROH DVD's that i bought in NYC.

*ROH Driven*
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA - ****3/4

Another amazing match from these 2, not as great as GBHVN2 but still awesome nonetheless.


----------



## watts63

Yeah my cutoff will be on 11/30 because I am done watching wrestling for the rest of the year.


----------



## McQueen

Personally I think you should all wait till early next year to do the voting on what is the 2007 MOTY. Just makes more sense to do it that way to me at least.


----------



## dezpool

Doug Williams Vs Chris Hero from King Of Europe Night 2 was a fantastic technical match that I realy enjoyed this year.


----------



## CM Skittle

McQueen said:


> Personally I think you should all wait till early next year to do the voting on what is the 2007 MOTY. Just makes more sense to do it that way to me at least.


I agree with this person! The Briscoes vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico is definately in the top 3 matches of the year (if not the best match of the year) but it doesn't come on pay per view until Friday and there might be other good matches by the end of the year so you shouldnt stop it until it's 2007!


----------



## Sephiroth

CM Skittle said:


> I agree with this person! The Briscoes vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico is definately in the top 3 matches of the year (if not the best match of the year) but it doesn't come on pay per view until Friday and there might be other good matches by the end of the year so you shouldnt stop it until it's 2007!


here's the thing. the only way people are going to see new indy stuff in December is if they actually go to the show. or if a DVD is released before the NYC doubleshot, then most people won't get it for a week or more into the new year.

the cut off for the year is based on availability for most people. we want to make sure the stuff is available to watch and people won't be voting for stuff they haven't seen, or not voting for stuff that deserves to be voted for.

CM Skittle, you'll most likely be at the Trios show, as will I. but who else? probably BMX and hopefully Mcqueen (seriously, go). that's 4. if there IS a MOTYC on that show, do the 4 of us have the right to be voting for it even tho no one else has seen it? besides, if it's just us 4 voting for it, then it's going to lose and let's just say it's far and away the best match ever, it's not going to get the praise it deserves and will be left off next year's after everyone has had the chance to see it.

for stuff like WWE/TNA or even Puro, then yeah, let's do it at the end of the year, or early next year, but not with Indy stuff.


----------



## ROH

Watched Dragon/KENTA Driven DVD version.

Fucking loved it; easily one of my fav ROH matches this year. But it wasn't perfect - there were a few flaws such as KENTA no selling his own death finisher (GTS) to lock the Cattle Mutilation on Dragon, when he hadn't been working the arms at all. Also, when he put the Cattle Mutilation earlier it didn't make much sense - he'd spent the whole time before working Dragon's head and hadn't yet tried the GTS.

Still an aweosme match, with PERFECT execution and really good selling. A solid ****1/2 for rating.


----------



## Legend

My MVP of the year:

*Christian Cage*
Final Resolution vs. Sting vs. Abyss - NWA Championship - *** 3/4
Against All Odds vs. Kurt Angle - NWA Championship - *** 3/4 to ****
Destination X vs. Samoa Joe - NWA Championship - **** 1/2 to **** 3/4
Lockdown - Lethal Lockdown Match - **** to **** 1/4
Sacrifice vs. Kurt Angle vs. Sting - NWA Championship - *** 1/2 to *** 3/4
Slammiversary vs. AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Harris - KOTM Match - TNA Championship - **** to **** 1/4
iMPACT! vs. Kurt Angle vs. Rhino - TNA Championship - *** 3/4 to ****
Victory Road vs. Chris Harris - *** 3/4 to ****
Hard Justice w/Tomko and AJ Styles vs. Abyss, Sting and Andrew Martin - Doomsday Chamber of Blood - ** 3/4
iMPACT! vs. Abyss - First Blood - *** 3/4
No Surrender vs. Samoa Joe - ****
iMPACT! w/Triple X and AJ Styles vs. LAX, Junior Fatu and Samoa Joe - *** 3/4 to ****
Bound For Glory vs. Samoa Joe - **** 1/4 to **** 1/2
iMPACT! vs. Samoa Joe - *** 3/4 to ****
iMPACT! vs. Kaz - *** 3/4 to ****
Genesis vs. Kaz - Ladder Match - **** 1/4 to **** 1/2

This guy has been THE MAN out of both TNA and WWE for all 2007. He nudges out Cena in my opinion, and needs far more credit for these awesome matches than he gets. As a heel in a match, the Instant Classic is pure gold. His match with Joe at Destination X gets better with each viewing. Phenomenal. Shame about Hard Justice though...


----------



## PulseGlazer

Legend said:


> My MVP of the year:
> 
> *Christian Cage*
> Final Resolution vs. Sting vs. Abyss - NWA Championship - *** 3/4
> Against All Odds vs. Kurt Angle - NWA Championship - *** 3/4 to ****
> Destination X vs. Samoa Joe - NWA Championship - **** 1/2 to **** 3/4
> Lockdown - Lethal Lockdown Match - **** to **** 1/4
> Sacrifice vs. Kurt Angle vs. Sting - NWA Championship - *** 1/2 to *** 3/4
> Slammiversary vs. AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Harris - KOTM Match - TNA Championship - **** to **** 1/4
> iMPACT! vs. Kurt Angle vs. Rhino - TNA Championship - *** 3/4 to ****
> Victory Road vs. Chris Harris - *** 3/4 to ****
> Hard Justice w/Tomko and AJ Styles vs. Abyss, Sting and Andrew Martin - Doomsday Chamber of Blood - ** 3/4
> iMPACT! vs. Abyss - First Blood - *** 3/4
> No Surrender vs. Samoa Joe - ****
> iMPACT! w/Triple X and AJ Styles vs. LAX, Junior Fatu and Samoa Joe - *** 3/4 to ****
> Bound For Glory vs. Samoa Joe - **** 1/4 to **** 1/2
> iMPACT! vs. Samoa Joe - *** 3/4 to ****
> iMPACT! vs. Kaz - *** 3/4 to ****
> Genesis vs. Kaz - Ladder Match - **** 1/4 to **** 1/2
> 
> This guy has been THE MAN out of both TNA and WWE for all 2007. He nudges out Cena in my opinion, and needs far more credit for these awesome matches than he gets. As a heel in a match, the Instant Classic is pure gold. His match with Joe at Destination X gets better with each viewing. Phenomenal. Shame about Hard Justice though...


That's really impressive... until you compare it to the Briscoes, Cena, Danielson, Nigel, or Morishima. They have as many good matches and more great. If you want a rundown of the yearfor any of them, let me know. You're also extremely generous on a lot of these matches, a good full star higher than most for impact matches.


----------



## T-C

PulseGlazer said:


> That's really impressive... until you compare it to the Briscoes, Cena, Danielson, Nigel, or Morishima. They have as many good matches and more great. If you want a rundown of the yearfor any of them, let me know. You're also extremely generous on a lot of these matches, a good full star higher than most for impact matches.


Agreed on everything, throw in Misawa, Tanahashi and Nagata as well. I actually found that list pretty hilarious in all honesty.


----------



## Legend

PulseGlazer said:


> That's really impressive... until you compare it to the Briscoes, Cena, Danielson, Nigel, or Morishima. They have as many good matches and more great. If you want a rundown of the yearfor any of them, let me know. You're also extremely generous on a lot of these matches, a good full star higher than most for impact matches.


Prett sure I mentioned that I was only comparing TNA and WWE, so that's why I didn't mention those other guys who I don't know. As for Cena, he takes 2nd for me.



> Orginally Posted by *T-C*
> Agreed on everything, throw in Misawa, Tanahashi and Nagata as well. I actually found that list pretty hilarious in all honesty.


See above. I don't care about ROH and what not, hence why I wasn't comparing it. Read.


----------



## T-C

That is fair enough if you don't watch it. But I still find it funny that someone could think Christian has had a better year than Cena.


----------



## Legend

T-C said:


> That is fair enough if you don't watch it. But I still find it funny that someone could think Christian has had a better year than Cena.


I guess it's an interesting debate, but I guess by preference of the Christian character (in the matches) might be tipping the scale.


----------



## watts63

*ROH Manhattan Mayhem II*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico ****-****1/4

Great match but it would have been higher if Steenerico would have gained a fall. It was dumb to me that Steenerico did so much shit & not get a fall as the Briscoes didn't do half the stuff Steenerico did & get two straight falls.


----------



## Sephiroth

Legend said:


> My MVP of the year:
> 
> *Christian Cage*
> Final Resolution vs. Sting vs. Abyss - NWA Championship - *** 3/4
> Against All Odds vs. Kurt Angle - NWA Championship - *** 3/4 to ****
> Destination X vs. Samoa Joe - NWA Championship - **** 1/2 to **** 3/4
> Lockdown - Lethal Lockdown Match - **** to **** 1/4
> Sacrifice vs. Kurt Angle vs. Sting - NWA Championship - *** 1/2 to *** 3/4
> Slammiversary vs. AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Harris - KOTM Match - TNA Championship - **** to **** 1/4
> iMPACT! vs. Kurt Angle vs. Rhino - TNA Championship - *** 3/4 to ****
> Victory Road vs. Chris Harris - *** 3/4 to ****
> Hard Justice w/Tomko and AJ Styles vs. Abyss, Sting and Andrew Martin - Doomsday Chamber of Blood - ** 3/4
> iMPACT! vs. Abyss - First Blood - *** 3/4
> No Surrender vs. Samoa Joe - ****
> iMPACT! w/Triple X and AJ Styles vs. LAX, Junior Fatu and Samoa Joe - *** 3/4 to ****
> Bound For Glory vs. Samoa Joe - **** 1/4 to **** 1/2
> iMPACT! vs. Samoa Joe - *** 3/4 to ****
> iMPACT! vs. Kaz - *** 3/4 to ****
> Genesis vs. Kaz - Ladder Match - **** 1/4 to **** 1/2
> 
> This guy has been THE MAN out of both TNA and WWE for all 2007. He nudges out Cena in my opinion, and needs far more credit for these awesome matches than he gets. As a heel in a match, the Instant Classic is pure gold. His match with Joe at Destination X gets better with each viewing. Phenomenal. Shame about Hard Justice though...


i don't want to sound like a dick, but why'd you even post this here?

sure a lot of us that actually post here are indy fans and TNA/WWE fans so even tho the core of the MOTYC thread is for indy/puro stuff, we also post mainstream stuff. 

you on the other hand, are just a WWE/TNA fan. so why even post this here? 

sorry to sound like a dick, i just want to know why you decided to post it.



watts63 said:


> *ROH Manhattan Mayhem II*
> Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico ****-****1/4
> 
> Great match but it would have been higher if Steenerico would have gained a fall. It was dumb to me that Steenerico did so much shit & not get a fall as the Briscoes didn't do half the stuff Steenerico did & get two straight falls.


that's the one thing i hate about the Briscoes (well, more the way they are booked i guess). Steenerico vs. Briscoes have had arguably the best feud in ROH this year and all they've ever gotten were some inconsequential singles wins and one non-title street fight. they NEEDED a fall in that match. it's a shame Gabe didn't see that.


----------



## watts63

The last great match from the WWE this year for me:

*WWE Survivor Series '07*
Batista vs. The Undertaker ****1/4


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Sephiroth said:


> you on the other hand, are just a WWE/TNA fan. so why even post this here?


God forbid he express his opinion in a forum designed for that exact purpose. Shame on him.



As relates to MOTY voting...as I said to McQueen, I probably won't be making my list until February or March. People who make the cutoff early to mid December are the types who simply have the wankfest need to have an MOTY list ready for January 1.

Sit back. Chill out. Watch as much as you can of that year RIGHT TO THE END, then formulate your opinion.

It's pretty much killed matches from December in standard MOTY voting because people don't tend to remember they float to the next year anyway.


----------



## KingKicks

Wanted to get the rest of my ROH DVD's watched before watching Man Up.

*ROH Manhattan Mayhem II*

Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson - ****3/4 (Simply amazing match)

Jay and Mark Briscoe vs. El Generico and Kevin Steen - ****1/4 (Awesome match, would of been ****1/2 if Steen and Generico had at least won a fall)


----------



## -Mystery-

Benjo™ said:


> Wanted to get the rest of my ROH DVD's watched before watching Man Up.
> 
> *ROH Manhattan Mayhem II*
> 
> Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson - ****3/4 (Simply amazing match)
> 
> Jay and Mark Briscoe vs. El Generico and Kevin Steen - ****1/4 (Awesome match, *would of been ****1/2 if Steen and Generico had at least won a fall*)


Honestly, I didn't have a problem with them not gaining a fall because if they had gained a fall, they would've had to win the match because they would be ending the Briscoes long streak of falls. When someone finally ends the streak, it'll be special because they'll be ending the streak and winning the tag titles. The way the feud was built, Steen & Generico couldn't pick up the fall.


----------



## MrPaiMei

-Mystery- said:


> Honestly, I didn't have a problem with them not gaining a fall because if they had gained a fall, they would've had to win the match because they would be ending the Briscoes long streak of falls. When someone finally ends the streak, it'll be special because they'll be ending the streak and winning the tag titles. The way the feud was built, Steen & Generico couldn't pick up the fall.


See, I TOTALLY disagree. I see the whole point of the gimmick as that whoever gets a fall first, they WON'T win the titles then. You take a slightly over team, say, Jack and Ruckus, and have them get a fall but lose, so they're super duper over but don't have to carry the belts yet, the Briscoes still look like the best team in the world, and you have a super hot rematch built in.


----------



## Sephiroth

this thread is going to get flooded with "Ladder War: Briscoes (c) vs. Steenerico" tomorrow night


----------



## PulseGlazer

MrPaiMei said:


> See, I TOTALLY disagree. I see the whole point of the gimmick as that whoever gets a fall first, they WON'T win the titles then. You take a slightly over team, say, Jack and Ruckus, and have them get a fall but lose, so they're super duper over but don't have to carry the belts yet, the Briscoes still look like the best team in the world, and you have a super hot rematch built in.


Also note the Briscoes lost a normal fall at DBD V Night 1


----------



## dezpool

I gotta show some love for Cheech & Cloudy vs The Olsen Twins from Chikara's Cibernetico & Robin. One of the best Chikara matches I've seen this year.


----------



## Sephiroth

Glory By Honor VI: Night 2
*GHC Heavyweight Champion Mitsuhara Misawa vs. KENTA - *****

Misawa came, he saw, he conquered. great match. the crowd could have been better tho.


----------



## McQueen

I'm tossing up between: 
Kiku Angle vs Muscle Lesnar vs Josh Kintaro from NOSAWA Genome or Stalker Ichizawa Z vs Don Fuji from PWG :side:


----------



## MrPaiMei

Ladder match was around ****1/4, maybe ****1/2 to me. It's in my top 12, which I can't whittle down to 10 without some re-watching. It is...

From ROH:
BJ vs. Jimmy 3/31
Dragon vs. Nigel 6/9
Dragon vs. KENTA 6/23
Dragon vs. Morishima 8/25
Briscoes vs. Steenerico 9/15

From CZW:
Hero vs. Kingston 4/8

From PWG:
Dragon vs. Generico 7/30

From NOAH:
KENTA/Taiji vs. Marufuji/Iifushi 7/15

From NJPW:
Tanahashi vs. Nagata 4/8
Minoru vs. Taguchi 7/6
Tanahashi vs. Nagata 10/8

From Dragon Gate:
Takagi/Hulk/Kong vs. Saito/Susumu/Kidou vs. Doi/Yoshino/Kishiwada 6/5


----------



## The Great Maijin

Legend said:


> *TNA*
> Destination X: Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe - **** 1/2
> Lockdown: Lethal Lockdown - **** 1/4
> Sacrifice: James Storm vs. Chris Harris - **** 1/4
> Slammiversary: King Of The Mountain - **** 1/4
> No Surrender: Kurt Angle vs. Jay Lethal - ****
> 
> *WWE*
> New Years Revolution: Degeneration X vs. Rated RKO - ****
> Royal Rumble: John Cena vs. Umaga - **** 1/4
> SmackDown!: Finlay vs. The Undertaker - ****
> Wrestlemania: Batista vs. The Undertaker - **** 1/4
> Wrestlemania: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - ****
> SmackDown!: Chris Benoit vs. MVP - ****
> Raw: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - ****
> Backlash: Batista vs. The Undertaker II - **** 1/4
> Backlash: John Cena vs. Randy Orton vs. Edge vs. Shawn Michaels - **** 1/4
> Raw: Edge vs. Randy Orton - ****
> One Night Stand: The Hardys vs. WGTT Ladder Match - ****
> Vengeance: Batista vs. Edge III - **** 1/4
> Great American Bash: John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley - ****


I let Taker/Batista slide but why is Cena/Lashley on there as 4 stars. Please explain why you liked it that much and/or why it is four stars.


----------



## McQueen

I just watched MINORU/Taguchi from NJPW 7/6 last night and I feel it was a low end MOTYC - **** 1/4


----------



## watts63

*PWG Giant Size Annual #4*
El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson ****1/2

PWG's MOTY hands down...so far.

*PWG Giant Size Annual #4*
Roderick Strong & PAC vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico ****1/4


----------



## ROH

^ I approve


----------



## Sephiroth

*PWG Giant Size Annual #4*
PWG Title: El Generico (c) vs. Bryan Danielson - ****

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 12/2*
Kenta Kobashi & Yoshihiro Takayama vs. Mitsuhara Misawa & Jun Akiyama - **** 1/2

the crowd, the reactions, the commentators, the match itself, the emotion, it all adds up into one of the best moments i've ever seen in professional wrestling. i know the cut off for MOTY Awards is 11/30 or 12/1...i don't care. THIS MATCH HAS TO BE IN IT FOR CONSIDERATION.

it's not the best match this year, but god damn, it's my favorite.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Ya, it's hard to rank the Kobashi match, but it's absolutly incredible. A truly special match. It's gonna be in my ballot, that's for sure.


----------



## watts63

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 12/2/07*
Kenta Kobashi & Yoshihiro Takayama vs. Mitsuhara Misawa & Jun Akiyama ****1/2

Welcome back Kobashi, welcome back.

This match makes it the 100th **** or ****+ match I have seen this year.


----------



## LL4E

Holy shit. Can't even tell Kobashi has missed the last year and a half. Freaking awesome match. I dont really do stars so . . But I can say, GO WATCH THIS NOW! 2007 Feel Good Moment for damn sure.


----------



## antoniomare007

the emotion on the match was just unbelievable, Kobashi is a freaking beast he missed more than 1 year and puts on this awesome match. ****1/4 - ****1/2


----------



## SuperBrawl

I have it at ****1/4-1/2 as well. Kobashi was pretty awesome.


----------



## watts63

*ROH Man Up*
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico ****1/4

It would be higher if it wasn't for the delayed finish & El Generico having the match won because Jay took too long with the ladder that shown that Briscoes was definetly gonna win.


----------



## ROH

I watched the Kobashi return match earlier and have it at ****_****1/4. Perfect for what they were going for, the best NOAH heavyweight stuff I've seen all year (although I haven't seen much and need to see that 4/28 GHC tag Title match though).


----------



## KingKicks

As i was off from college today i had a chance to watch Man Up and the latest NOAH show.

*ROH Man Up*
Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson - ****1/4

-Not as good as their match from Manhattan Mayhem II or Glory By Honor VI Night 2 but still an awesome match.

*Ladder War*
Jay and Mark Briscoe vs. El Generico and Kevin Steen - ****3/4 - *****

I may of rated this high but it truly was an insane match, and as a big fan of ladder matches it is up there as maybe my favorite ever.

*NOAH 02/12/2007*

Kenta Kobashi and Yoshihiro Takayama vs. Mitsuharu Misawa and Jun Akiyama - ****1/4 - ****1/2

Favorite moment of the year. It was PERFECT for what i wanted when Kobashi finally returned and the aftermath was incredibly emotional imo.


----------



## peep4life

Just watched the Kobashi return match and have it at ****1/4, the emotion and atmosphere make it seem even more special.
Welcome back Kobashi.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

NOAH 12/02/07 - Kenta Kobashi/Yoshihiro Takayama vs. Mitsuharu Misawa/Jun Akiyama - ****3/4

It'll need a second viewing, but Cena vs. Michaels aside, I can't think of a better worked match this year. The whole build of the match was great, with Kobashi being head and shoulders better than anyone else at his best, but still not having the same level of confidence as before. Every now and again, he second guesses himself and leaves an opening for Misawa or Akiyama to take advantage of. Those two know him well enough not to leave any openings if possible, and Takayama does a good job as a general shitkicker. The finishing sequence is particularly nuts, with Kobashi coming within an inch of the win several times before being put down with one of the best finisher runs I've ever seen, leading to a move no one should ever kick out of. 

I still think Cena vs. Michaels was slightly better, but damn if this wasn't close. Fantastic match, and even better moment.


----------



## T-C

The Kobashi match was exceptional. I really loved Misawa in it aswell, his input made it that bit more interesting. I especially loved the moment when he saw Kobashi was weakened, made the tag and came into the ring with such a great "heel" look on his face. I'd love a Misawa heel run after seeing that match.

Moment of the year has to be when Kobashi hit the slam, yelled, then scaled the ropes to hit the moonsault. Such a fantastic wrestling sequence usually, but this time it was just so special. So great.

Taue should have been in the match though. :side:


----------



## Sephiroth

T-C said:


> Taue should have been in the match though. :side:


if they could have gotten Kawada and Taue back together for one night....the world would have exploded with greatness


----------



## LL4E

Sephiroth said:


> if they could have gotten Kawada and Taue back together for one night....the world would have exploded with greatness



Damn you and your uber awesome idea.


----------



## Blasko

Sephiroth said:


> if they could have gotten Kawada and Taue back together for one night....the world would have exploded with greatness


 It'd be better if they faced the Briscoes and beat the fuck out of them. 

To PROVE who the best tag team ever would be.


----------



## ROH

Watch Misawa vs KENTA (11/3) and it was kinda dissapointing (although I had really high expectations). KENTA didn't carry things very well at times and there were LOADS of restholds (probably the most I've seen all year in one match). On the good side the storytelling was great and while there wasn't much there, the finishing sequence was awesome and felt really epic at times. I'm torn between ***3/4 and ****, I'll probably go higher on the ROH DVD version.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

T-C said:


> The Kobashi match was exceptional.


Know what makes it better?

309 MB High Quality version. :agree:

I'mma have to rewatch it now. Prolly burn it to a comp too.


----------



## watts63

*CHIKARA Cibernetico & Robin*
Cheech & Cloudy vs. Jimmy & Colin Olsen ****1/4

They should be in ROH & PWG when its '08.


----------



## T-C

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Know what makes it better?
> 
> 309 MB High Quality version. :agree:
> 
> I'mma have to rewatch it now. Prolly burn it to a comp too.


Oh yes. I have an unparalleled amount of man love for the D.

McQueen says shhhh on throwing the name of that epic man around on here.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Using this to organize my thoughts on American MOTY.

1. Danielson- Morishima 1
2. Danielson - Nigel
3. Kingston vs. Hero (CZW out with the old)
4. Briscoes vs. MCMG
5. Jacobs vs. Whitmer SCOH
6. Briscoes vs. Steen and Generico (DBD V 1)
7. Danielson vs. Go 
8. Danielson vs. KENTA
9. Briscoes vs. Steen and Generico (Man Up)
10. Hero vs. Quack (Chikara)

I feel like I'm missing something, though. Claudio-Morishima, Morishima-Nigel 1, Morishima-Joe, The Cena HBKs...That's it right? I still need to see Danielson vs. Generico.


----------



## watts63

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 4/28/07*
Jun Akiyama and Takeshi Rikio vs. Takashi Suguira and Yoshihiro Takayama ****1/4-****1/2

*NJPW 11/11/07*
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Hirooki Goto ****1/4


----------



## ROH

watts63 said:


> *Pro Wrestling NOAH 4/28/07*
> Jun Akiyama and Takeshi Rikio vs. Takashi Suguira and Yoshihiro Takayama ****1/4-****1/2


I'm about the same here, prob a clean ****1/2.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

T-C said:


> Oh yes. I have an unparalleled amount of man love for the D.
> 
> McQueen says shhhh on throwing the name of that epic man around on here.


I avoid it anyway to keep idiots from raping his site. I've bitched about people posting links too.

But yeah, I watched it with my girlfriend Tuesday night. It's still the sex. She was in awe of Kobashi and the reverence he was shown, and impressed as hell with the match quality.

Keep in mind, she's a casual fan at best. She basically only watches it with me once in a while.

Afterwards, I ask her "Did that feel like 40 minutes?" and she blinks kinda blankly at me as though she had no idea it had been that long.

MOTY material, to be sure.


----------



## KevinC

I Have to agree, Mind blowing.


----------



## McQueen

I finally got around to watching the whole Kobashi return match last night and it was as awesome as I was hoping it would be, it even ascended my expectations a little bit. Post match celecration was really awesome and i'll admit I got a little misty because of it, absolutely incredible moment.


----------



## Oceansized

I've just finished watching the Kobashi return mach. Man that was awesome! The emotion was just incredible!


----------



## LegendofBaseball

Hands down as to be Kevin Steen & El Generico Vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe in the Ladder War Match (okay, I may be a bit of mark for my Quebec Boys doing so good in ROH but that was not only insane, but sound and a classic in its own right).


----------



## vivalabrave

1st post in here so away we go...

Danielson vs. McGuinness ROH 6/9 *****
KENTA/Ishimori vs. Marufuji/Ibushi NOAH 7/15 ****3/4
Briscoes v Steen & El Generico ROH 8/10 ****3/4
Briscoes vs. Shelly/Sabin ROH 4/28 ****3/4
Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima ROH 8/25 ****3/4
KENTA vs. Bryan Danielson ROH 6/23 ****1/2
KENTA/Ishimori vs. Marvin/Suzuki NOAH 8/31 ****1/2
Danielson vs. Shiozaki ROH 7/16 ****1/2
Shawn Michaels vs. John Cena WWE 4/23 ****1/2
BJ Whitmer vs Jimmy Jacobs ROH 3/31 ****1/2
Briscoes vs. Marvin/Suzuki NOAH 1/21 ****1/2
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe ROH 3/4 ****1/2
Nigel McGuinness vs. Takeshi Morishima ROH 4/14 ****1/2
Briscoes v Steen & El Generico ROH 8/25 ****1/2
Briscoes vs. Castagnoli/Sydal ROH 5/12 ****1/2
CIMA/ Yokosuka/ Shingo vs Dragon Kid/ Saito/ Mochizuki ROH 3/31 ****1/2
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima ROH 2/16 ****1/4
Sasaki v. Miyamoto BJW 3/14 ****1/4
Briscoes vs. Marvin/Suzuki NOAH 7/15 ****1/4
Samoa Joe vs. Christian Cage TNA 10/14 ****1/4
Edge vs. Orton vs. Michaels vs. Cena WWE 4/29 ****1/4
John Cena vs. Umaga WWE 1/28 ****1/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton WWE 11/18 ****1/4
Takeshi Morishima vs. Claudio Castagnoli ROH 8/10 ****1/4
Nigel McGuinness vs Jimmy Rave ROH 3/4 ****1/4
HHH vs. Randy Orton 10/7 WWE ****1/4
Pac vs. El Generico KOE 4/28 ****1/4
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels WWE 4/1 ****1/4 
Briscoes vs. KENTA/Ishimori NOAH 7/6 ****
Danielson/Morishima vs. McGuinness/KENTA ROH 5/12 ****
Naruki Doi/Shingo vs. No Remorse Corps ROH 3/4 ****
Briscoes vs. Steen & El Generico ROH 6/23 ****
Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe TNA 3/11 ****
The Briscoes vs. Steen/Generico ROH 8/24 ****
Christina Cage vs. Kaz TNA 11/11 ****
Angle vs. Harris vs. Joe vs. Christian vs. Styles TNA 6/17 ****
Edge vs. Orton vs. Kennedy vs. Punk vs. Booker vs. J. Hardy vs. M. Hardy vs. Finlay 4/1 **** 
Austin Aries vs. Takeshi Morishima ROH 4/27 ****
Takeshi Morishima vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Brent Albright ROH 8/24 ****
Shingo vs. Morishima ROH 4/28 ****
Austin Aries vs Roderick Strong --- ****
Go Shiozaki vs. Davey Richards KOE 4/29 ****
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer ROH 3/4 ****


Just started watching stuff outside of WWE and TNA this year so huzzah. I have the Man Up Ladder match and the Kobashi return match waiting in the wings and I'm sure they'll be up around the top somewhere.


----------



## Sephiroth

vivalabrave said:


> Just started watching stuff outside of WWE and TNA this year so huzzah. I have the Man Up Ladder match and the Kobashi return match waiting in the wings and I'm sure they'll be up around the top somewhere.


if you have the Man Up Ladder War on your computer, mind uploading it for some of us?


----------



## vivalabrave

I've never uploaded before and I can't post in the multimedia section yet. Here's my attempt on MU:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HRGFM9K0

I'm not sure if I did it right (I guess I did) but there it is. 

If it doesn't work then this is where I got it:

http://xtremewrestlingtorrents.net/details.php?id=26606

Credit for everything goes to Lesnar420 at XWT.


----------



## ROH

ROH Man Up - Ladder War.

Have this at a low ****3/4. No particular reason for not the 5, just didn't think it was good enough. Still, this was damn awesome and [I can't really say much that hasn't already been said ].


----------



## vivalabrave

Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima ROH 9/15 ****
When I saw this match only went 13 minutes on Wikipedia, I thought it would suffer. Obviuosly not in MMII's league but still great. 

Briscoes v Steen & El Generico ROH 9/15 ****1/2
A high ****1/2. There were a couple of times in the match that kinda felt awkward. I'm not the kind of guy who thinks the ending of a match matters a bunch ( I like a good ending, but if it's a rollup or whatever then I don't mind), but the ending here really hurt it. I thought Steen did a great job of climbing back up the ladder, though. I think if I saw this before the Boston Street Fight I would have liked it more. All that bitching aside, it was incredible and the Springboard Doomsday spot was one of my favorites of the year.


----------



## musdy

*Supercard of Honor II*
BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs (Steel Cage Match)- *****1/2*
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka & Shingo vs. Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito & Masaaki Mochizuki- *****1/4*


----------



## vivalabrave

PWG Giant Size Annual 4

Steen/Generico vs. Pac/Strong PWG 7/29 ****1/4

El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson PWG 7/29 ****
I liked this but it the ending felt very generic Danielson.


----------



## watts63

*Dragon Gate 9/22/07*
Ryo Saito & Susumu Yokosuka vs. Keni'chiro Arai & Taku Iwasa ****

You can download it on the other media section.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

musdy said:


> *Supercard of Honor II*
> BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs (Steel Cage Match)- *****1/2*
> CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka & Shingo vs. Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito & Masaaki Mochizuki- *****1/4*


Why am I the only one who loves Aries vs. Strong from that show? If nothing else it was better than the six man...


----------



## PulseGlazer

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Why am I the only one who loves Aries vs. Strong from that show? If nothing else it was better than the six man...



In order of appearance for each match-

**** 1/2
****, maybe **** 1/4
**** 1/4. 

You're the only one who loves it because it was wrestled like the start to a series, not meant to be blowaway, then, of course, the rest of their meetings kind of sucked.


----------



## musdy

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Why am I the only one who loves Aries vs. Strong from that show? If nothing else it was better than the six man...


I was expecting more heat from Aries.


----------



## El Conquistador

I'm rather behind on all of my Independent viewings but I'm trying to get caught up through the Multimedia Forum here. Watched a significant amount of some recent RoH stuff and I'll shortly convey my point and say that Austin Aries vs. Danielson from RoH Honor Nation was one of the better wrestled matches of the year at this point. I felt the magic they worked on the mat was the best I've seen all year. This is one of the few matches recently that I could legitimately classify and consider a 'wrestling clinic', imo.

I'm not overly keen on dishing out a rating for the match yet, but a rough estimation would have it around ****1/2.


----------



## PulseGlazer

M.W. said:


> I'm rather behind on all of my Independent viewings but I'm trying to get caught up through the Multimedia Forum here. Watched a significant amount of some recent RoH stuff and I'll shortly convey my point and say that Austin Aries vs. Danielson from RoH Honor Nation was one of the better wrestled matches of the year at this point. I felt the magic they worked on the mat was the best I've seen all year. This is one of the few matches recently that I could legitimately classify and consider a 'wrestling clinic', imo.
> 
> I'm not overly keen on dishing out a rating for the match yet, but a rough estimation would have it around ****1/2.



Just watched- 4 and a quarter. Really enjoyed it and love how these are going to build on each other. Just really good stuff. Danielson's body of work is absurd.


----------



## dezpool

El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson from PWG Giant Size Annual 4 was just a great match IMO. One of the best I've seen this year in PWG.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

PulseGlazer said:


> In order of appearance for each match-
> 
> **** 1/2
> ****, maybe **** 1/4
> **** 1/4.
> 
> You're the only one who loves it because it was wrestled like the start to a series, not meant to be blowaway, then, of course, the rest of their meetings kind of sucked.


I thought it had more subtlety to it than most matches this year, as well as strong heat and a good build leading to a hot finishing sequence...if anything, it suffered from poor placement.

That said, Strong fucking DECIMATED Aries and that should have been the feud right there. Sadly, Roddy's superior work and general heel awesomeness has been shafted to the midcard while Aries is in SUPER DESTROYER mode getting a main event push.

Why is it every time Aries is coming close to the ME, his most annoying habits kick in again?


----------



## mobyomen

I've seen some damn good wrestling matches in ROH this year and I would have to say that the first match out of the series of 3 between Austin Aries and Bryan Danielson was definetely the best "wrestling" match I've seen in '07, but I gotta mark out for the Briscoes vs Steen & Generico Ladder War from Man Up. That match had everything I wanted to see and the insane bumps were icing on the cake. For the pure brutality and for the sake of being a spotfest, Ladder War is by far my MOTY, at least a canidate!


----------



## vivalabrave

KENTA vs. Mitsuharu Misawa ROH 11/3 ****

Not the classic I was hoping for but still good.


----------



## PulseGlazer

TheUnholyDragon said:


> I thought it had more subtlety to it than most matches this year, as well as strong heat and a good build leading to a hot finishing sequence...if anything, it suffered from poor placement.
> 
> That said, Strong fucking DECIMATED Aries and that should have been the feud right there. Sadly, Roddy's superior work and general heel awesomeness has been shafted to the midcard while Aries is in SUPER DESTROYER mode getting a main event push.
> 
> Why is it every time Aries is coming close to the ME, his most annoying habits kick in again?


Aries, to me, wrestles up or down to his opponents. He never dragged a good match out of anyone, but put him with Dragon or Joe and watch the magic. The reason is, imo, he lacks the avility to build crowd heat with his selling which is rather haphazard and he badly mistimes his hope spots, going far too long between offense killing the crowd


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

PulseGlazer said:


> Aries, to me, wrestles up or down to his opponents. He never dragged a good match out of anyone, but put him with Dragon or Joe and watch the magic. The reason is, imo, he lacks the avility to build crowd heat with his selling which is rather haphazard and he badly mistimes his hope spots, going far too long between offense killing the crowd


Funny thing is, that's EXACTLY what I was saying in 2005 when people were hyping him as the best ever.

But yeah, he's definately better as a tag wrestler or working someone who's at a higher level and/or he's familiar with.


----------



## watts63

*ROH Survival of The Fittest '07*
Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Austin Aries vs. Roderick Strong vs. Rocky Romero vs. Human Tornado ****

It's Official: CHRIS IS AWESOME!


----------



## Claymore

PulseGlazer said:


> Aries, to me, wrestles up or down to his opponents. He never dragged a good match out of anyone, but put him with Dragon or Joe and watch the magic. The reason is, imo, he lacks the avility to build crowd heat with his selling which is rather haphazard and he badly mistimes his hope spots, going far too long between offense killing the crowd


This to me is the best description of Austin Aries out there, you summed him up perfectly Glazer...

This is exactly how I feel about him, and you put it into better words than I ever could...


----------



## McQueen

I'm actually a pretty big fan of Aries but that seems like a fair assessment of him.

I find irony in the fact that I found Aries to be the most talented guy in Generation Next in 2004 and Roderick Strong to be the least talented, and now I'd say from a "working ability" standpoint Aries has barely improved (he's still damn good though) and Roderick is maybe the most talented American worker aside from Danielson not working for a major fed.


----------



## ROH

^ I gotta agree McQueen, Strong is WAY better than he gets credit for.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Strong hasn't figured out how to work heel in ring as evidenced by the lack of even very good matches as a heel. His character as a heel is world's ahead of his face character, so it's quite a problem. As a face, he focusses on a bodypart for his hope spots which are timed well and usually pay off in the finishing sequence. The ferocity of the chops and backbreakers makes sure the crowd pops and stays involved despite a generally slow pace. As a heel, he relies a lot more on opponents. The problem is the backbreakers and chops still pop the crowd, while a lack of consistent selling from his opponets, and I'm looking at Aries, Jack and the Briscoes, takes away effectiveness in building sympathy for them. Popping the crowd on his own without being able to build sympathy for the face is not a good combination in a heel. I'd love a heel Strong vs. Face Dragon match to see what they can do together with this dynamic. With Danielson in control less and utilizing more selling, it can top their other encounters, Vendetta included. 

Strong doesn't appear able to call or lead a match himself, as his matches with Delirious, Daniels and other suffer from his muddled role as a heel and further from his awkward pacing. It worked as a face because of the impact of the offense, but as a heel it merely tires the crowd. He's very good at finishing sequences at least though.


----------



## Rainecloud

Here's my current MOTY list:

Marufuji/Ibushi Vs. KENTA/Ishimori - 7/15 NTV Cup Tag League - ***** (flawless)
Misawa/Akiyama Vs. Kobashi/Takayama - 12/2 - ****3/4 (KOBASH KENTAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!)
KENTA/Ishimori Vs. Kanemaru/Aoki - 9/9 - **** (outstanding junior tag match)
Mitsuharu Misawa Vs. Akira Taue - 7/15 GHC Title - ***1/2 (great heavyweight match with a classic, nostalgic feel)
Mitsuharu Misawa Vs. KENTA - 11/3 GHC Title - *** (showed that Misawa still 'has it')

As you can tell, I don't watch much else aside from NOAH these days.


----------



## ROH

Rainecloud said:


> Here's my current MOTY list:
> 
> Marufuji/Ibushi Vs. KENTA/Ishimori - 7/15 NTV Cup Tag League - ***** (flawless)


I disagree. There were a few pretty big botches that took the crowd out of things towards the end, and the (most of the) first 10 minutes was slow mat wrestling for slow mat wrestling's sake.


----------



## manimgoodinbed

cena vs micheals raw sometume in april....it almost went an hour....fanfreakin' tastic


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

PulseGlazer said:


> Strong hasn't figured out how to work heel in ring as evidenced by the lack of even very good matches as a heel. His character as a heel is world's ahead of his face character, so it's quite a problem. As a face, he focusses on a bodypart for his hope spots which are timed well and usually pay off in the finishing sequence. The ferocity of the chops and backbreakers makes sure the crowd pops and stays involved despite a generally slow pace. As a heel, he relies a lot more on opponents. The problem is the backbreakers and chops still pop the crowd, while a lack of consistent selling from his opponets, and I'm looking at Aries, Jack and the Briscoes, takes away effectiveness in building sympathy for them. Popping the crowd on his own without being able to build sympathy for the face is not a good combination in a heel. I'd love a heel Strong vs. Face Dragon match to see what they can do together with this dynamic. With Danielson in control less and utilizing more selling, it can top their other encounters, Vendetta included.
> 
> Strong doesn't appear able to call or lead a match himself, as his matches with Delirious, Daniels and other suffer from his muddled role as a heel and further from his awkward pacing. It worked as a face because of the impact of the offense, but as a heel it merely tires the crowd. He's very good at finishing sequences at least though.


To be fair, Delirious is hard to work with due to his eccentric character often overshadowing the content of the match, not to mention his occasionally spotty nature. And Daniels hasn't had a 'great' performance in RoH in years. I understand the point you're trying to make, but these are not the best examples.

I think a lot of Roddy's problems as a heel stem from the generally muddled views of the RoH crowds. They're often too smarky for their own good and have a tendancy to cheer heels because it's the cool thing to do. Additionally, I don't think he can be faulted for his psychology being blown off by spotty opponents. Especially considering when he's in there with someone who is actually capable of selling it properly, the matches tend to gravitate between 'good' and 'amazing'.

In other words, a large amount of the problems you noted don't seem to revolve around Strong as much as the environment around him.

It also can't help that he hasn't really had a lot of high profile singles matches in RoH aside from Aries, Evans, and Stevens this year...one would have to follow FIP to really get anything of him in that role atm.


----------



## Rainecloud

ROH said:


> I disagree. There were a few pretty big botches that took the crowd out of things towards the end, and the (most of the) first 10 minutes was slow mat wrestling for slow mat wrestling's sake.


Re-watched the match this morning (for the fifth time) after reading your post ... and you're quite right. Still, I loved the match, and I enjoyed it more than anything else I've watched this year. I feel somewhat reluctant to remove the ***** I gave it.


----------



## McQueen

Cena vs Umaga (Last Man Standing) - Royal Rumble
Marufuji/Ibusha vs KENTA/Ishimori - 7/15/07
Danielson vs McGuinness - (Domination/Driven)
Tanahashi vs Nagata - (April)
Danielson vs Morishima - (MM II)

are right now the five best matches i've seen this year. I need to fully watch Tanahashi/Goto, Sasaki/Miyamoto BJW deathmatch and need to find Tanahashi/Nagata III though.


----------



## PulseGlazer

TheUnholyDragon said:


> To be fair, Delirious is hard to work with due to his eccentric character often overshadowing the content of the match, not to mention his occasionally spotty nature. And Daniels hasn't had a 'great' performance in RoH in years. I understand the point you're trying to make, but these are not the best examples.
> 
> I think a lot of Roddy's problems as a heel stem from the generally muddled views of the RoH crowds. They're often too smarky for their own good and have a tendancy to cheer heels because it's the cool thing to do. Additionally, I don't think he can be faulted for his psychology being blown off by spotty opponents. Especially considering when he's in there with someone who is actually capable of selling it properly, the matches tend to gravitate between 'good' and 'amazing'.
> 
> In other words, a large amount of the problems you noted don't seem to revolve around Strong as much as the environment around him.
> 
> It also can't help that he hasn't really had a lot of high profile singles matches in RoH aside from Aries, Evans, and Stevens this year...one would have to follow FIP to really get anything of him in that role atm.



To be great, he really does need to be able to adapt more to the entire enviornment around him not named Bryan. I mean, Danielson used to do a lot of leg work, then he stopped that when he realized it was being wasted, but broke it out against guys who he thought would be goood enough to sell properly.


----------



## Kawada55

Match of year, KOBASHI RETURNS!!!!!!!!! Kenta Kobashi and Yoshihiro Takayama vs Mitsuharu Misawa and Jun Akiyama.(maybe not, but I marked out loud as hell, I'll list more matces once I calm down.)


----------



## Sephiroth

*Death before Dishonor V: Night 2 - Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush **** 1/4*

that was 18 minutes of magic


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

PulseGlazer said:


> To be great, he really does need to be able to adapt more to the entire enviornment around him not named Bryan. I mean, Danielson used to do a lot of leg work, then he stopped that when he realized it was being wasted, but broke it out against guys who he thought would be goood enough to sell properly.


RoH crowds are annoyingly hard to work properly, so I give him a pass on that. No arguments about him needing to adapt to different opponents better, but sometimes there's just a clash of styles.

I'd agree that he's no Danielson, but charisma aside, I don't see an enormous gap between him and Hero, Claudio, Quack, Generico...etc. All of whom I like and all of whom get a ton of praise on here.


----------



## McQueen

TheUnholyDragon said:


> RoH crowds are annoyingly hard to work properly, so I give him a pass on that. No arguments about him needing to adapt to different opponents better, but sometimes there's just a clash of styles.


I agree on this, ROH crowds are often times just plain annoying. I've been watching FIP shows lately and I have to say I enjoy their crowd atmosphere much much more.

Imagine indy heels actually getting booed.


----------



## watts63

McQueen said:


> I agree on this, ROH crowds are often times just plain annoying. I've been watching FIP shows lately and I have to say I enjoy their crowd atmosphere much much more.
> 
> Imagine indy heels actually getting booed.


I agree about the FIP crowd but except that time in FIP Battle of the Belts where one guy single handley killed the post match speech by Erick Stevens because he hates Roderick Strong (who was in the ring as well).


----------



## MrPaiMei

Briscoes vs. Pondo/Necro (the blow-off) ****-****1/4

Weird thing about FIP's crowd (this was basically my first FIP), they are really into it, but it seems they don't care who wins. Big spots = huge pops, but nearfalls themselves got silence.


----------



## McQueen

watts63 said:


> I agree about the FIP crowd but except that time in FIP Battle of the Belts where one guy single handley killed the post match speech by Erick Stevens because he hates Roderick Strong (who was in the ring as well).


I'm watching that show as I type this but why does it seem that in EVERY promotion he goes too the loudest asshole in the crowd hates Strong. :lmao


----------



## PulseGlazer

TheUnholyDragon said:


> RoH crowds are annoyingly hard to work properly, so I give him a pass on that. No arguments about him needing to adapt to different opponents better, but sometimes there's just a clash of styles.
> 
> I'd agree that he's no Danielson, but charisma aside, I don't see an enormous gap between him and Hero, Claudio, Quack, Generico...etc. All of whom I like and all of whom get a ton of praise on here.


I'm not saying I don't think Roddy is very good or I dislike him, just that he has flaws in the ring. I can't think of anyone who doesn't. Roddy is better than Hero, about on par with the other three.


----------



## Sephiroth

PulseGlazer said:


> I'm not saying I don't think Roddy is very good or I dislike him, just that he has flaws in the ring. I can't think of anyone who doesn't. Roddy is better than Hero, about on par with the other three.


time to whip out the scoresheet and see if Roderick really is up to par with them 

wasn't Roddy a 44 and Quack a 49?


----------



## ROH

PulseGlazer said:


> I'm not saying I don't think Roddy is very good or I dislike him, just that he has flaws in the ring. I can't think of anyone who doesn't. Roddy is better than Hero, about on par with the other three.


As much as I hate to say it, CC ain't better than Hero.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Sephiroth said:


> time to whip out the scoresheet and see if Roderick really is up to par with them
> 
> wasn't Roddy a 44 and Quack a 49?


Those were my initial without much thought scorings. The one's we're doing are the ones I'm counting...

And on that note, where's my sample.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

PulseGlazer said:


> I'm not saying I don't think Roddy is very good or I dislike him, just that he has flaws in the ring. I can't think of anyone who doesn't. Roddy is better than Hero, about on par with the other three.


Truthfully, I just find these sorts of debates interesting.

It has got a bit cyclical tho, hasn't it?

And yeah, when it comes to top level workers it really does come down to what they do wrong. I find Danielson to have more flaws than a lot of people notice, which is why he doesn't top my list, but I digress.

I WILL say Roddy's better than Aries, Evans, and possibly even Shelley at this point, making him the Gen Next winner imo, and leave it at that.


----------



## ROH

^ Shelley's overrated to fuck anyway.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Fuck that dude, Shelley's AWESOME. Watching BOLA, it was so clear to me that outside the DG guys, he was just on a whole other level from everyone else.


----------



## taker4567

Shawn Michaels vs. John Cena (c) - Wrestlemania 23 Rematch (non-title)


----------



## ROH

The man (Shelley) is purely wasted potential. I know he CAN go, I've seen that with his Aries match at MM and Dragon match at AW. Apart from those listed matches, he's never had a match where I'd consider him good. Alongside Sabin he's too spotty and flashy, and generally cares more about the flash stuff over storytelling and basic stuff.

I'll try to go in as unbias as possible for BOLA, although I don't see much changing...


----------



## PulseGlazer

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Truthfully, I just find these sorts of debates interesting.
> 
> It has got a bit cyclical tho, hasn't it?
> 
> And yeah, when it comes to top level workers it really does come down to what they do wrong. I find Danielson to have more flaws than a lot of people notice, which is why he doesn't top my list, but I digress.
> 
> I WILL say Roddy's better than Aries, Evans, and possibly even Shelley at this point, making him the Gen Next winner imo, and leave it at that.


Danielson's flaws... such as?

Oh and Shelley vs. Punk from the third year anniversary is 4 and a half Ollie.


----------



## bstaple12

Just watched the ladder match from Man Up for the first time. Its now my MOTY. Damn, what a match.


----------



## Richie

Ladder match from Man Up...*****

Easily. Carried on. Fucking Awsome.


----------



## watts63

*NJPW LOCK UP 11/24/07*
Tomohiro Ishii vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ****-****1/4

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 6/3/07*
Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Taku Iwasa & Kenichiro Arai ****


----------



## casper-21

watts63 said:


> *Pro Wrestling NOAH 6/3/07*
> Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin vs. Taku Iwasa & Kenichiro Arai ****


Awesome match.


----------



## ROH

PulseGlazer said:


> Danielson's flaws... such as?
> 
> Oh and Shelley vs. Punk from the third year anniversary is 4 and a half Ollie.


Oh yeah, forgot about that one. Well yeah, those 3 are the only Shelley matches I've seen where all the hype lives up.


----------



## vivalabrave

Death before Dishonor V Night 2

Takeshi Morishima vs. Brent Albright --- ****

Aries, Delirious, Stevens, & Cross vs. Strong, Romero, Richards, & Sydal --- ****


----------



## PulseGlazer

vivalabrave said:


> Death before Dishonor V Night 2
> 
> Takeshi Morishima vs. Brent Albright --- ****
> 
> Aries, Delirious, Stevens, & Cross vs. Strong, Romero, Richards, & Sydal --- ****


No love for Danielson vs. Quackenbush? I have that at **** too.


----------



## vivalabrave

I have it at ***3/4. I was so close to going over but in the end I felt better leaving it at what it was. Best ***3/4 match of the year, though.


----------



## T-C

Just watched the ladder match from Man Up and it was really good. I wouldn't have it in my top 3 or 5 but really good.

However the amonut of head shots that were taking was quite disturbing and I'm pretty sure Mark Briscoe and Generico died at least twice.


----------



## Blasko

I've been on a mini hunt for the Man Up ladder matcch. I can only find files that only have sound. 

Bah. :side:


----------



## T-C

I'll upload it now, if you can hold on for a bit.


----------



## Jindrak=Ratings

my top 5 

ladder match from man up is my moty so far it was superb from start to finish, makes me proud to be a steen mark 

the NRC/Sydal vs Resilance/Delirous has to be my number 2 another great match, action throughout and stevens proud that he could be a star in this match

Marufuji/Ibushi vs KENTA/Ishimori from the july 1st taping of noah was a great high flying bout, WHY THE HELL NOAH DONT USE IBUSHI MORE THE DUDES SO GREAT

John Cena vs Umaga - as much as i dont watch wwe and as am not a big fan of cena this was a great match, the only wwe ppv i bother with is the rumble and this match stole the show, it was great, cena still sucks at wrestling but can brawl as you can see in this match 

steen and generico vs briscoes from dbdh night 1 - WOW what a brutal street fight


----------



## Oceansized

-Blasko- said:


> I've been on a mini hunt for the Man Up ladder matcch. I can only find files that only have sound.
> 
> Bah. :side:


http://www.free-codecs.com/K_Lite_Codec_Pack_download.htm


----------



## Blasko

T-C said:


> I'll upload it now, if you can hold on for a bit.


 yes plz

Thank you. :$


----------



## bstaple12

-Blasko- said:


> I've been on a mini hunt for the Man Up ladder matcch. I can only find files that only have sound.
> 
> Bah. :side:


Just download the div-x player and it will work.

http://www.divx.com/


----------



## Oceansized

Media Player Classic or VLC are the way forward when it comes to playing pretty much anything!


----------



## Blasko

Watched it , handful of awkward moments drag it down to a very high **** 1/2. Good stuff. Even my 7 year old sister watched with me.

Going to watch it again before I go to sleep. Check up on it.


----------



## ROH

-Blasko- said:


> Even my 7 year old sister watched with me.


Was she stoned???


----------



## Blasko

ROH said:


> Was she stoned???


 No. Jay Briscoe is now her idol and Generico's selling scares her.


----------



## casper-21

MOTY 2007
*1. Briscoes - Kevin Steen & El Generico - ladder war - ROH Man Up*
2. Bryan DanIelson - KENTA III - ROH Driven
3. Bryan Danielson - Nigel McGuinness - ROH Driven/Domination
4. Briscoes - Naruki Doi & Shingo I - ROH FYF Liverpool
5. Hiroshi Tanahashi - Hirooki Goto - NJPW
6. Briscoes - Claudio Castagnoli & Matt Sydal - ROH Respect Is Earned
7. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori - Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi - NOAH
8. Briscoes - Kevin Steen & El Generico - street fight - ROH DBD4
9. Jay Briscoe - Mark Briscoe - ROH FYF Final
10. Bryan Danielson & Nigel McGuinness - Takeshi Morishima & Naomichi Marufuji - ROH United We Stand
11. Jun Akiyama & Takeshi Rikio - Yoshihiro Takayama & Takashi Sugiura - NOAH
12. El Generico - Pac - PWG ASW5
13. Briscoes - Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin - ROH Good Times Great Memories
14. CIMA, Pac, Susumu Yokosuka & Dragon Kid - Shingo, Cyber Kong, Jack Evans & El Generico - Dragon Gate WJam
15. Mike Quackenbush - Chris Hero - Chikara Aniversario
16. Bryan Danielson - Go Shiozaki - ROH Live in Japan
17. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki - Taku Iwasa & Kenichiro Arai - NOAH
18. Takashi Sasaki - Yuko Miyamoto - BJW
19. Briscoes - Kevin Steen & El Generico - 2/3 - ROH MM2
20. Hiroshi Tanahashi - Yuji Nagata III - NJPW
21. Yuji Nagata - Shinsuke Nakamura - NJPW G-1 Climax
22. Masato Tanaka - Daisuke Sekimoto - Zero-1 Fire Festival
23. Briscoes - Kevin Steen & El Generico - ROH Driven
24. Briscoes - Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi - NOAH
25. Briscoes - Pac & Roderick Strong - PWG DDT4
26. Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs Kenta Kobashi & Yoshihiro Takayama - NOAH
27. Bryan Danielson - Takeshi Morishima - ROH MM2
28. Chris Hero - Eddie Kingston - IWA-MS TPI
29. Taku Iwasa & Kenichiro Arai - Susumu Yokosuka & Ryo Saito - Dragon Gate


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

PulseGlazer said:


> Danielson's flaws... such as?


I find that a lot of his heel mannerisms, while typically great, end up showing up in weird places in intense matches taking me out of them emotionally. It's just weird to see him go from highly intense to sort of goofy cocky heel.

Really, it's nothing to do with the wrestling so much as his being too charismatic for his own good sometimes. I have the same problem with Alex Shelley.

He also goes for the 'epic' match too often, I think. I can't recall the last 'amazing' match I've seen by him that was under 30 minutes or so, and that CAN be a problem in and of itself.

Much like you with Roddy, it doesn't mean I think he isn't a great wrestler. I just don't like him as much as everyone else seems to.


----------



## vivalabrave

Danielson's matches against Nigel at Driven and against Morishima at MM2 were under 30 minutes I believe.


----------



## watts63

*ZERO1-MAX Fire Festival 7/16/07*
Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ****-****1/4


----------



## Thisskateboarding

vivalabrave said:


> Danielson's matches against Nigel at Driven and against Morishima at MM2 were under 30 minutes I believe.


Plus his two matches with Aries. his match with Quackenbush an I think all his Morishima matches were under 30.

Got no idea where Dragon was coming from with his 30 min match remark


----------



## vivalabrave

Survival of the Fittest 2007

Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson ****1/4

LOVED this match and have heard nothing about it. This was Nigel's first match after winning the title. You could feel both men still had something to prove in this encounter. Dragon wanted to put Nigel back in his place (it had always been Danielson then Nigel, but now Mcguinness had he strap and Dragon hated it) while Nigel was trying to prove he could beat Danielson. They were trying to force each other into using the ropes throughout the first part (kind of like they were admitting that the other was superior) The selling was tremendous as well. When Nigel had Dragon in a double chicken wing I thought Danielson was gonna die. Sure we all knew the result once it went past 10 minutes (or maybe even the first five considering the way they were mat wrestling), but I still found it to be a great match.

For those who have seen it, what did you think? I've seen 1 guy give it ***1/4 while 2 others said it was on par with their Unified and Driven matches (although they didn't give star ratings).


----------



## McQueen

Does this make it official that Danielson & McGuinness are incapable of having a bad match with each other?


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Yes. Yes it does.


----------



## Sephiroth

McQueen said:


> Does this make it official that Danielson & McGuinness are incapable of having a bad match with each other?


i was there live at Epic Encounter 2...it wasn't bad per se...i just wanted to blow my brains out so it would end


----------



## McQueen

Sephiroth said:


> i was there live at Epic Encounter 2...it wasn't bad per se...i just wanted to blow my brains out so it would end


Cool, I saw that show live too, I thought it was a pretty great match actually at least better than the Generation Now match. The length so much didn't bother me but after the first 20-25 minutes the headlocking thing was starting to get a little old. Thankfully they had enough sense to realize this and the 2nd half was pretty free of gratutious headlocks.


----------



## PulseGlazer

vivalabrave said:


> Survival of the Fittest 2007
> 
> Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson ****1/4
> 
> LOVED this match and have heard nothing about it. This was Nigel's first match after winning the title. You could feel both men still had something to prove in this encounter. Dragon wanted to put Nigel back in his place (it had always been Danielson then Nigel, but now Mcguinness had he strap and Dragon hated it) while Nigel was trying to prove he could beat Danielson. They were trying to force each other into using the ropes throughout the first part (kind of like they were admitting that the other was superior) The selling was tremendous as well. When Nigel had Dragon in a double chicken wing I thought Danielson was gonna die. Sure we all knew the result once it went past 10 minutes (or maybe even the first five considering the way they were mat wrestling), but I still found it to be a great match.
> 
> For those who have seen it, what did you think? I've seen 1 guy give it ***1/4 while 2 others said it was on par with their Unified and Driven matches (although they didn't give star ratings).


I have it at about *** 1/2 - *** 3/4. It lacks anything special, any urgency or anything to make it stand out to take it up to ****. Still very good.


----------



## ROH

I have Nigel/Dragon at EE2 at ****3/4. Speaking of which, I haven't watched it in ages, so it could change on a rewatch and such.


----------



## vivalabrave

I saw one guy on 411 give Nigel-Dragon EE2 only ***! I couldn't believe it. I had heard nothing but awesomeness from this match.

I haven't seen their EE2, WOCN2 or Generation Now matches (although I will come 12/25), but I have loved everytime they have locked up. I have both Unified and Driven at ***** and now their SOTF match very high.


----------



## ROH

vivalabrave said:


> I saw one guy on 411 give Nigel-Dragon EE2 only ***! I couldn't believe it. I had heard nothing but awesomeness from this match.
> 
> I haven't seen their EE2, WOCN2 or Generation Now matches (although I will come 12/25), but I have loved everytime they have locked up. I have both Unified and Driven at ***** and now their SOTF match very high.


Yeah that guy (Jacob Ziegler, I think his name is)'s ratings are way off for lots of matches I find. 

It's not the most fast paced, high impact stuff (like their Driven match), it's very slow and mat based, but it builds perfectly and even though the fans weren't really into it (they seemed tired) I was going nuts for the finishing sequence.


----------



## watts63

*ROH Glory By Honor VI Night One*
Nigel McGuinness vs. Chris Hero ****

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 12/2/07*
Naomichi Marufuji vs. Takeshi Morishima ****


----------



## ROH

watts63 said:


> *ROH Glory By Honor VI Night One*
> Nigel McGuinness vs. Chris Hero ****


Good. Hopefully that can shut up all the ROHBots who say "HERO SUX COZ HE CANT HAV A 5 STAR MATCH!!!11!"


----------



## watts63

ROH said:


> Good. Hopefully that can shut up all the ROHBots who say "HERO SUX COZ HE CANT HAV A 5 STAR MATCH!!!11!"


Who the hell said that?


----------



## musdy

*Pro Wresting NOAH:*
Kenichiro Arai & Taku Iwasa vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin- ****

Tozawa-juku is great!!


----------



## ROH

watts63 said:


> Who the hell said that?


There was like, a whole thread on it on the ROH Board.


----------



## watts63

ROH said:


> There was like, a whole thread on it on the ROH Board.


Another reason why I don't go to that board anymore :no:.


----------



## Sonko

Hero rocks.....


MOTY candidates for me are the following matches

Danielson vs Nigel from Driven

Danielson vs El Generico from Grant Annual size #4 or something like that lol.It's where Danielson gains the PWG Title

Marufuji/Ibushi vs KENTA/Ishimori

Christian vs Joe (all their matches especially @ BFG and Destination X)


----------



## PulseGlazer

watts63 said:


> Another reason why I don't go to that board anymore :no:.


Err, it was me and what I actually said was antics with no intensity shouldn't be the main part of an ROH main eventer. It fits perfectly in the undercard, but at the top of the card, I want more.


----------



## ROH

PulseGlazer said:


> Err, it was me and what I actually said was antics with no intensity shouldn't be the main part of an ROH main eventer. It fits perfectly in the undercard, but at the top of the card, I want more.


Wasn't you dude. There was a whole other thread wher epeople openly said he shouldn't be in ROH because he can't have a 5* classic. God forbid someone have a personality/wacky character nowadays in ROH.


----------



## vivalabrave

I haven't really seen any 4* matches from Chris Hero (I have the 93 minute 2/3 falls match and the TL match on my computer, but I haven't watched them), but I must say that he is still one of my favorites in the company.


----------



## Oceansized

His hair and ring attire just annoys me. The goofy antics don't bother me, I just wish he would change his look.


----------



## McQueen

How the hell can you not like the shiny pants!

My favorite Chris Hero match was vs CM Punk at the IWA: MS event 59:04, mayve a **** 1/2 - **** 3/4 match up IMO. When he wasn't chain wrestling for 40 minutes with no real payoff Hero had some really damn good matches in IWA MS, vs. Homicide in 2003 for the IWA title, vs. Samoa Joe in 2004, his 2005 "I Quit" match with Arik Cannon, a nice 2/3 Falls against Danielson at Phenomenal Invasion and quite a few nice matches with Punk. All of which I could concider over the **** mark.


----------



## watts63

vivalabrave said:


> I haven't really seen any 4* matches from Chris Hero (I have the 93 minute 2/3 falls match and the TLC match on my computer, but I haven't watched them), but I must say that he is still one of my favorites in the company.


Have you seen Hero/Kingston matches?

Their match at Out With The Old, In With The New (****3/4) & TPI '07 Night Two (****1/4-****1/2) are matches you just have to see.


----------



## vivalabrave

I found Hero-kingston III on Dailymotion. I'm not sure which match it is. I heard about the OWTO, IWTN match but I have yet to find it anywhere.


----------



## watts63

I think it's time for you to request for those matches.

*ROH Glory By Honor VI Night Two*
Claudio Castagnoli vs. Naomichi Marufuji ****

*ROH Glory By Honor VI Night Two*
Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima ****1/4 (LMAO At Danielson Curbstomping Morishima's balls & doing a parody on Nigel's lariats)


----------



## PulseGlazer

watts63 said:


> I think it's time for you to request for those matches.
> 
> *ROH Glory By Honor VI Night Two*
> Claudio Castagnoli vs. Naomichi Marufuji ****
> 
> *ROH Glory By Honor VI Night Two*
> Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima ****1/4 (LMAO At Danielson Curbstomping Morishima's balls & doing a parody on Nigel's lariats)


I requested Hero vs. Kingston numerous times and was ignored. I finally sucked it up and bought the DVD. It was worth it. **** and 3/4 indeed. 

Hero vs. Quack from this year, **** 1/2, Chikara MOTY.


----------



## watts63

PulseGlazer said:


> I requested Hero vs. Kingston numerous times and was ignored. I finally sucked it up and bought the DVD. It was worth it. **** and 3/4 indeed.
> 
> Hero vs. Quack from this year, **** 1/2, Chikara MOTY.


Also the Castagnoli vs. Hero match from CHIKARA Rey de Voladores (****-****1/4) that I forgot to mention.


----------



## Blasko

Oceansized said:


> His hair


 HOW THE HELL COULD YOU HATE HIS SMOOTH, BEYOND SILKY HAIR?!

I WANT HIS SHAMPOO, DAMN IT! :cuss:


----------



## peep4life

Hating Hero's hair is just wrong. Hating him for the purple and green ring attire and his beer belly, thats another story.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Aries vs. Danielson 3- **** 1/2

Just beautiful. Being the third in the series they had counters to all the regular spots, which, as the match wore on were reincorporated, usually with Aries, because he's more explosive, being able to hit is big spots before Danielson. They teased the finishes for both match 1 and 2 as well, and the finishing sequence is a thing of beauty. If Aries sold neck work better, it's *****. Better than Dragon-KENTA from Driven.


----------



## vivalabrave

Good to see the final match live up to the hype. When I saw watts63 only give it ***1/2 I was a little dissapointed. Looking forward to this now.


----------



## Spiked.

I just watched Ladder War, now that is my match of the year.


----------



## PulseGlazer

vivalabrave said:


> Good to see the final match live up to the hype. When I saw watts63 only give it ***1/2 I was a little dissapointed. Looking forward to this now.


The most interesting part is that it's about 18 minutes. I think that accounts for a lot of the lower scores you're seeing.


----------



## McQueen

PulseGlazer said:


> The most interesting part is that it's about 18 minutes. I think that accounts for a lot of the lower scores you're seeing.


Yeah, cause everyone around here has gotten the bumfuck idea that if a match is shorter it can't be as good, buncha bullshit I say. Damn I really hope I get my order soon I can't wait to see the best of 3 series now.


----------



## watts63

*NJPW G-1 Climax '07 8/5/07*
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Shinsuke Nakamura ****-****1/4


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

ROH said:


> Yeah that guy (Jacob Ziegler, I think his name is)'s ratings are way off for lots of matches I find.
> 
> It's not the most fast paced, high impact stuff (like their Driven match), it's very slow and mat based, but it builds perfectly and even though the fans weren't really into it (they seemed tired) I was going nuts for the finishing sequence.


I find he's usually pretty spot on, and enjoys slower paced stuff so long as it fits the tone of the match.

To my knowledge, he's only ever given one or two matches ***** in RoH history, and one of them was Joe vs. Punk II.

Next you're going to tell me Mike Campbell doesn't know what he's talking about because he rated Joe vs. Kobashi below ***...

Different reviewers look for different things, and some are more discerning than others. Contrary to popular belief, that doesn't necessarily make them wrong.


----------



## ROH

TheUnholyDragon said:


> I find he's usually pretty spot on, and enjoys slower paced stuff so long as it fits the tone of the match.
> 
> To my knowledge, he's only ever given one or two matches ***** in RoH history, and one of them was Joe vs. Punk II.
> 
> Next you're going to tell me Mike Campbell doesn't know what he's talking about because he rated Joe vs. Kobashi below ***...
> 
> Different reviewers look for different things, and some are more discerning than others. Contrary to popular belief, that doesn't necessarily make them wrong.


I didn't say he was 'wrong', I meant I find his ratings (ie for incredible matches like Nigel/Dragon only *** ) to be way too low or too high.

Also, his reviews kinda suck. He gives vague PBP, talks about completely unrealated (or barely related) things for like, 75% of the match review then says a comment about the actual match and slaps on a star rating.


----------



## Thisskateboarding

I find that Jacob Ziegler to be pretty much around the mark aswell. I think the only matches I have seen him give 5 star are Joe/Punk 2, Nigel/Dragon Driven and Im pretty sure he gave Briscoes/MCMG 5 star aswell.


----------



## MBL

Dragon/Nigel from Driven is ***** and gets my vote for MOTY by a considerable margin. Everything I look for in a wrestling match was right here, absolutly brilliant.


----------



## ROH

CHIKARA MOTYC: Equinox vs Chris Hero, The Sordid Perils of Everyday Existence.

Hot Damn, this match hasn't got nearly enough praise as it deserves. 

After being dissapointed with the 8 man and Helios/Fire Ant (keep in my mind I had really high expectations for both), this really gave me confidence in thinking TSPOEE could be show of the year.

The match itself was SO good. We get Hero disrespecting Equinox from the start, Equinox running wild, Hero destroying him for like 10 minutes, Equinox coming back (arm drag into the chairs~!) and an INSANELY hot finishing stretch. All the stuff that played off their past encounters (powerbomb from Cibernetico, backslide from TBOWCCL) was great and all the post match stuff was awesome.

The best part of it was that the fans actually believed Equinox could pull it off. Dude was near dead at the end, when he hit his big reverse DDT and had that look of "I got one last thing left" and locked in the 'Special I (along with the crowd) was going NUTS. Hero's counter and all the stuff after was cool too, and Quack yelling on commentary was a nice touch. 

Easily the best match of Equinox's career, and I'd go as far to say one of Hero's too. Awesome, awesome stuff.

*****1/4* for a rating.


----------



## ROH

Well, I was in the middle of making a massive list of Best Matches of 2007 and My Favorites from it too, but half way through I realised I haven't watched BOLA, TPI, CHIKARA SC > BoR and the 5 latest ROH releases yet. In a week or more (most likely more) I guess I'll have it up.

Here's my top 15 of CHIKARA anyways, which will probably change 32858 times.

1) Eddie Kingston vs Tim Donst, Showdown in CRISISLand!, 7/21/07 
2) Equinox vs Chris Hero, TSPOEE, 11/17/07 
3) PAC vs Claudio, Invaders Weekend Night 2, 8/18/07 
4) Quack vs Hero, Aniversario?, 5/26/07 
5) The Colony vs Cheech, Cloudy and Hallowicked, King of Trios Night 2, 2/18/07 (most underrated match of the year) 
6) Hero vs Claudio, Rey De Voladores, 4/22/07 
7) FIST vs Cheech and Cloudy, Rey De Voladores, 4/22/07 
8 ) Pantera, Lince and Sicodelico vs QuackenShaneSaw, King of Trios Night 3, 2/18/07 
9) Colony/Hallowicked vs BLKOUT, Time Will Prove Everything, 3/24/07 
10) Quack vs Claudio, Time Will Prove Everything, 3/24/07 
11) The Portal/FIST vs Quack and The Colony, TBOWCCL, 11/16/07 
12) Tim Donst vs Eddie Kingston 2, Bruised, 10/26/07 
13) PAC vs Ricochet, Invaders Night 1, 8/17/07 
14) Quack, Helios and Trik vs Hawke Like an Egyptian, Chapter 11, 11/18/07 
15) Claudio vs MIYAWAKI, TSPOEE, 11/17/07.


----------



## The_Boogey_Man

Alright, i just finished watching Yuko Miyamoto vs. Takashi Sasaki from earlier this month in a Panes of Glass match and i must say WOW! This is the last in the Miyamoto seven deathmatch series and a rematch from there highly acclaimed Scaffolding/Light tubes match from back in March. The crowd was into the match the entire time. Only two panes of glass were used, but the good part is that the Panes of Glass werent what made this match special. Miyamoto still trying to prove he can beat Sasaki, and Sasaki coming out and putting on the match of a lifetime. All the spots seemed to click really well and the uses of the Glass also made alot of sense. This match definitly wasnt just about blood and guts, and really show cased both of there abilities. Easily a ****1/2 - ****3/4 match. im gonna go back and rewatch it to see to see if it pushes more in the ****3/4 spot or the ****1/2 spot.


----------



## PulseGlazer

ROH said:


> CHIKARA MOTYC: Equinox vs Chris Hero, The Sordid Perils of Everyday Existence.
> 
> Hot Damn, this match hasn't got nearly enough praise as it deserves.
> 
> After being dissapointed with the 8 man and Helios/Fire Ant (keep in my mind I had really high expectations for both), this really gave me confidence in thinking TSPOEE could be show of the year.
> 
> The match itself was SO good. We get Hero disrespecting Equinox from the start, Equinox running wild, Hero destroying him for like 10 minutes, Equinox coming back (arm drag into the chairs~!) and an INSANELY hot finishing stretch. All the stuff that played off their past encounters (powerbomb from Cibernetico, backslide from TBOWCCL) was great and all the post match stuff was awesome.
> 
> The best part of it was that the fans actually believed Equinox could pull it off. Dude was near dead at the end, when he hit his big reverse DDT and had that look of "I got one last thing left" and locked in the 'Special I (along with the crowd) was going NUTS. Hero's counter and all the stuff after was cool too, and Quack yelling on commentary was a nice touch.
> 
> Easily the best match of Equinox's career, and I'd go as far to say one of Hero's too. Awesome, awesome stuff.
> 
> *****1/4* for a rating.


You have at least two Hero matches this year rated higher.


----------



## ROH

PulseGlazer said:


> You have at least two Hero matches this year rated higher.


Yeah, so?


----------



## Saint Dick

I've settled on my top 5 WWE matches for 2007:

1. Cena vs Michaels - Raw - ****1/2
2. Cena vs Michaels vs Edge vs Orton - Backlash - ****1/2
3. HHH vs Orton - No Mercy - ****1/4
4. Batista vs Undertaker - WrestleMania 23 - ****1/4
5. Cena vs Umaga - Royal Rumble - ****1/4


----------



## mes

Cena vs Michaels from RAW this year was amazing, easily my WWE Match of the Year


----------



## vivalabrave

Honor Nation
Bryan Danielson vs. Austin Aries ****1/2

Chaos at the Cow Palace
Bryan Danielson vs. Austin Aries ****

Glory by Honor VI Night 1
Bryan Danielson vs. Austin Aries ****1/4

Glory by Honor VI Night 2
Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima ****1/4


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

ROH said:


> I didn't say he was 'wrong', I meant I find his ratings (ie for incredible matches like Nigel/Dragon only *** ) to be way too low or too high.
> 
> Also, his reviews kinda suck. He gives vague PBP, talks about completely unrealated (or barely related) things for like, 75% of the match review then says a comment about the actual match and slaps on a star rating.


You know how much PBP I read aside from the finish?

Approximately none.

It's the guys who throw in side stories and such that are interesting enough to hold my attention. That or Mike Campbell, because Mike Campbell has amazing reviews. If I'm honest, I more or less crib his style in large part for my own reviews.


----------



## ROH

TheUnholyDragon said:


> You know how much PBP I read aside from the finish?
> 
> Approximately none.
> 
> It's the guys who throw in side stories and such that are interesting enough to hold my attention. That or Mike Campbell, because Mike Campbell has amazing reviews. If I'm honest, I more or less crib his style in large part for my own reviews.


If it works for you, cool, but those side stories which are most of the time unrelated to the match he's reviewing really do nothing for me.


----------



## watts63

*CHIKARA The Sordid Perils Of Everyday Existence*
Chris Hero vs. Equinox ****1/4


----------



## Sephiroth

Stephen Colbert > Bill O'Reilly
*Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli - *** 1/4 - *** 1/2*


----------



## PulseGlazer

ROH said:


> If it works for you, cool, but those side stories which are most of the time unrelated to the match he's reviewing really do nothing for me.


Jake's a real good guy and a good writer. We do a very different style than he perpetuates at 411, but as there's obviously an audience for both, I don't see how that's anything but a good thing.


----------



## vivalabrave

Final 2007 MOTY list for me. In order:

Danielson vs. McGuinness ROH 6/9 *****
KENTA/Ishimori vs. Marufuji/Ibushi NOAH 7/15 ****3/4
Briscoes v Steen & El Generico ROH 8/10 ****3/4
Briscoes vs. Shelly/Sabin ROH 4/28 ****3/4
Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima ROH 8/25 ****3/4
Briscoes v Steen & El Generico ROH 9/15 ****1/2
Kobashi/Takayama vs. Misawa/Akiyama NOAH 12/02/07 ****1/2
KENTA vs. Bryan Danielson ROH 6/23 ****1/2
KENTA/Ishimori vs. Marvin/Suzuki NOAH 8/31 ****1/2
Danielson vs. Shiozaki ROH 7/16 ****1/2
Shawn Michaels vs. John Cena WWE 4/23 ****1/2
BJ Whitmer vs Jimmy Jacobs ROH 3/31 ****1/2
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe ROH 3/4 ****1/2
Nigel McGuinness vs. Takeshi Morishima ROH 4/14 ****1/2
Bryan Danielson vs. Austin Aries ROH 10/5 ****1/2
Briscoes vs. Marvin/Suzuki NOAH 1/21 ****1/2
Briscoes v Steen & El Generico ROH 8/25 ****1/2
Briscoes vs. Castagnoli/Sydal ROH 5/12 ****1/2
CIMA/ Yokosuka/ Shingo vs Dragon Kid/ Saito/ Mochizuki ROH 3/31 ****1/2
Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima ROH 11/3 ****1/4
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima ROH 2/16 ****1/4
Samoa Joe vs. Nigel McGuinness ROH 3/3 ****1/4
Sasaki v. Miyamoto BJW 3/14 ****1/4
Briscoes vs. Marvin/Suzuki NOAH 7/15 ****1/4
Samoa Joe vs. Christian Cage TNA 10/14 ****1/4
Edge vs. Orton vs. Michaels vs. Cena WWE 4/29 ****1/4
John Cena vs. Umaga WWE 1/28 ****1/4
Bryan Danielson vs. Austin Aries ROH 11/3 ****1/4
Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness ROH 10/19 ****1/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton WWE 11/18 ****1/4
Takeshi Morishima vs. Claudio Castagnoli ROH 8/10 ****1/4
Nigel McGuinness vs Jimmy Rave ROH 3/4 ****1/4
HHH vs. Randy Orton 10/7 WWE ****1/4
James Storm vs. Chris Harris TNA 5/13 ****1/4
El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson PWG 7/29 ****1/4
Pac vs. El Generico KOE 4/28 ****1/4
Steen/Generico vs. Pac/Strong PWG 7/29 ****1/4
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels WWE 4/1 ****1/4 
Briscoes vs. KENTA/Ishimori NOAH 7/6 ****
Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima ROH 9/15 ****
Aries, Delirious, Stevens, & Cross vs. Strong, Romero, Richards, & Sydal ROH 8/11 ****
Danielson/Morishima vs. McGuinness/KENTA ROH 5/12 ****
Naruki Doi/Shingo vs. No Remorse Corps ROH 3/4 ****
Briscoes vs. Steen & El Generico ROH 6/23 ****
Christian Cage vs. Samoa Joe TNA 3/11 ****
Bryan Danielson vs. Austin Aries ROH 10/21 ****
The Briscoes vs. Steen/Generico ROH 8/24 ****
Christina Cage vs. Kaz TNA 11/11 ****
Angle vs. Harris vs. Joe vs. Christian vs. Styles TNA 6/17 ****
Edge vs. Orton vs. Kennedy vs. Punk vs. Booker vs. J. Hardy vs. M. Hardy vs. Finlay 4/1 **** 
Austin Aries vs. Takeshi Morishima ROH 4/27 ****
Takeshi Morishima vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Brent Albright ROH 8/24 ****
Shingo vs. Morishima ROH 4/28 ****
Austin Aries vs Roderick Strong ROH 3/31 ****
Go Shiozaki vs. Davey Richards KOE 4/29 ****
KENTA vs. Mitsuharu Misawa ROH 11/3 ****
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer ROH 3/4 ****
Takeshi Morishima vs. Brent Albright ROH 8/11 ****


----------



## McQueen

^^^^ Not one New Japan match on your list. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Seriously 5 out of 7 (might be 8 of them if I'm forgetting one) IWGP Heavyweight Title defences are serious MOTYC's. In fact NJPW not only didn't suck this year it was arguably the best promotion of the year as a whole, back to my point if you haven't seen these matches you should.

-Tanahashi vs Kanemoto - 2/18 (awesome Heavy vs Junior match)
-Tanahashi vs Nagata - 4/13 (my favorite MOTY, but maybe not the best)
-Nagata vs Makabe - 7/06 (might be the funnest MOTY, freaking intense bloodbath)
-Nagata vs Tanahashi - 10/18 (some say better than the first title match they had)
-Tanahashi vs Gotoh - 11/11 (Tanahashi goes quasi-heel, Gotoh has a career match)

seriously seriously good stuff, blows most of ROH 2007 away IMO.

Oh and I finally saw the ladder war from Man Up - ****, not MOTY but probably the reason all of those guys shall be wheelchair bound if they keep that up.


----------



## watts63

McQueen said:


> ^^^^ Not one New Japan match on your list. You should be ashamed of yourself.
> 
> Seriously 5 out of 7 (might be 8 of them if I'm forgetting one) IWGP Heavyweight Title defences are serious MOTYC's. In fact NJPW not only didn't suck this year it was arguably the best promotion of the year as a whole, back to my point if you haven't seen these matches you should.
> 
> -Tanahashi vs Kanemoto - 2/18 (awesome Heavy vs Junior match)
> -Tanahashi vs Nagata - 4/13 (my favorite MOTY, but maybe not the best)
> -Nagata vs Makabe - 7/06 (might be the funnest MOTY, freaking intense bloodbath)
> -Nagata vs Tanahashi - 10/18 (some say better than the first title match they had)
> -Tanahashi vs Gotoh - 11/11 (Tanahashi goes quasi-heel, Gotoh has a career match)
> 
> seriously seriously good stuff, blows most of ROH 2007 away IMO.
> 
> Oh and I finally saw the ladder war from Man Up - ****, not MOTY but probably the reason all of those guys shall be wheelchair bound if they keep that up.


Were probably the only two people that has the Ladder match that low (****1/4 from me) & your also forgetting the 30 minute Tanahashi/Nakamura encounter on 5/8/07.


----------



## vivalabrave

McQueen said:


> ^^^^ Not one New Japan match on your list. You should be ashamed of yourself.
> 
> Seriously 5 out of 7 (might be 8 of them if I'm forgetting one) IWGP Heavyweight Title defences are serious MOTYC's. In fact NJPW not only didn't suck this year it was arguably the best promotion of the year as a whole, back to my point if you haven't seen these matches you should.
> 
> -Tanahashi vs Kanemoto - 2/18 (awesome Heavy vs Junior match)
> -Tanahashi vs Nagata - 4/13 (my favorite MOTY, but maybe not the best)
> -Nagata vs Makabe - 7/06 (might be the funnest MOTY, freaking intense bloodbath)
> -Nagata vs Tanahashi - 10/18 (some say better than the first title match they had)
> -Tanahashi vs Gotoh - 11/11 (Tanahashi goes quasi-heel, Gotoh has a career match)
> 
> seriously seriously good stuff, blows most of ROH 2007 away IMO.
> 
> Oh and I finally saw the ladder war from Man Up - ****, not MOTY but probably the reason all of those guys shall be wheelchair bound if they keep that up.


I've seen the 11/11 match and could not have cared less. Might check out the other matches though. I'm moving slowly. In 2006 all I had was WWE and TNA so at least I'm starting to expand a little.

Found all the matches up there on Youtube (except Nagata-Tanahashi 4/13, but I found that on Dailymotion). They've been favorited and await my viewing.


----------



## McQueen

watts63 said:


> Were probably the only two people that has the Ladder match that low (****1/4 from me) & your also forgetting the 30 minute Tanahashi/Nakamura encounter on 5/8/07.


I actually haven't seen that match yet, I was just trying to focus on all the MOTYC's surrounding the IWGP Heavyweight title, I am aware there are a few misc. matches from the promotion that are really good. Supposedly there is a Tenzan/Gotoh match from a few shows before his title shot that is very good as well that I have not seen, and I have yet to see any of the G-1 Climax or Best of the Super Juniors.

And yeah I didn't really get into the ladder war. Granted it was fun to watch, I still sat there and was thinking about all the stupidly and unnessary risks those guy were taking just to show off. I like highspots obviously as they can make a match really fun to watch but Briscoes just have been overdoing it all last year and quite frankly I could care less at the moment if I ever see a match from those guys again.


----------



## -GP-

McQueen said:


> And yeah I didn't really get into the ladder war. Granted it was fun to watch, I still sat there and was thinking about all the stupidly and unnessary risks those guy were taking just to show off. I like highspots obviously as they can make a match really fun to watch but Briscoes just have been overdoing it all last year and quite frankly I could care less at the moment if I ever see a match from those guys again.


Seems like i'm not the only one who sees the Briscoes turning into the "Abyss+thumbtacks/glass" of ROH...
As in done so much it doesn't even make you blink anymore

Same here, Ladder War was fun and everything, but how long before all these huge spots get overdone, and start getting boring (for lack of a better word)?
What then? Do they start jumping off higher things? Shooting each other?

Moderation is needed to make sure these huge, dangerous spots have the proper impact they should have when they're pulled off


----------



## Dark Church

I saw the Ladder War and go with **** and even considered ***3/4. I was entertained but it was not even the best Briscoes match of the year that I have seen. The fans chanting MOTY at the end made laugh my ass off.


----------



## watts63

Dark Church said:


> I saw the Ladder War and go with **** and even considered ***3/4. I was entertained but it was not even the best Briscoes match of the year that I have seen. The fans chanting MOTY at the end made laugh my ass off.


One thing I didn't understand about that match is the beginning. I hope I'm not only one but did y'all ever forget that it was a ladder match when they brawling all over the crowd for several minutes?


----------



## T-C

watts63 said:


> One thing I didn't understand about that match is the beginning. I hope I'm not only one but did y'all ever forget that it was a ladder match when they brawling all over the crowd for several minutes?


It's a Briscoes' match. You are expecting logical psychology in it?


----------



## watts63

T-C said:


> It's a Briscoes' match. You are expecting logical psychology in a match?


Yeah man, you're right. I laugh my ass off when people give that match *****.


----------



## Blasko

watts63 said:


> Yeah man, you're right. I laugh my ass off when people give that match *****.


 *COUGH.* Sephy.


----------



## McQueen

In all fairness to Sephy, that Ladder War would have been cool as hell to watch live. Still there was no depth to it at all, just spots spots spots.


----------



## vivalabrave

watts63 said:


> Yeah man, you're right. I laugh my ass off when people give that match *****.


This is something that I never get. Who really cares if someone gives a match *****? If they enjoyed it that much then good for them. No need to mock.


----------



## McQueen

The internet was made for mocking. Speaking of which i'm going to the "TNA" of wrestling forums for a bit to go make fun of people who thought Briscoes/MCMG was ***** now. *cough* Hailsabin. :side:


----------



## Sephiroth

-Blasko- said:


> *COUGH.* Sephy.


i ALWAYS mention in my live reports that every match has a live bias. why do you think i gave the "meh" Nigel vs. Hero ****

Live Bias = LARRY F'N SWEENEY CALLED ME A "BUM" 

oh and Toland told Bobby that i was getting a hard on while he was doing squats in front of me (at the time, his pants were split in two and he had swamp ass....sexy)


----------



## T-C

Sephiroth said:


> Live Bias = LARRY F'N SWEENEY CALLED ME A "BUM"
> 
> oh and Toland told Bobby that i was getting a hard on while he was doing squats in front of me (at the time, his pants were split in two and he had swamp ass....sexy)


*****


----------



## bmxmadb53

Sephiroth said:


> oh and Toland told Bobby that i was getting a hard on while he was doing squats in front of me (at the time, his pants were split in two and he had swamp ass....sexy)


You probably were.


----------



## McQueen

Who could blame him, we talking about "Big Bad" Bobby D. here.


----------



## Sephiroth

bmxmadb53 said:


> You probably were.


but still, Toland didn't have to point it out


----------



## ROH

ROH Glory By Hnor 6 Night 1:

Austin Aries vs Bryan Danielson - *****1/2*.

Their Honor Nation match is borderline fantastic, just a tiny bit lower than the GBH match.


----------



## PulseGlazer

ROH said:


> ROH Glory By Hnor 6 Night 1:
> 
> Austin Aries vs Bryan Danielson - *****1/2*.
> 
> Their Honor Nation match is borderline fantastic, just a tiny bit lower than the GBH match.


Yay Honor Nation. I agree totally. That or Dragon vs. Go is the most underrated of the year. It was the DBD V Night 1 Street Fight but the hype has caught up to that one.


----------

