# Brodie Lee is terrible



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Thanks for that.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Thanks for telling us your opinion is terrible. A guy who's a good talker and very good in the ring with Brusier Brody look is anything but terrible. He's been a great hire for AEW and best is still yet to come for him.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

Was it Worth a new thread ?


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Disagree.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

Brodie Lee has the talent to be great in the right role.

I don't care this gimmick at all really, it's just not interesting to me. I somehow care even less about the Dark Order than I did before.


----------



## ObsoleteMule (Sep 4, 2016)

This guy bitches about everything


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Luke Harper was excellent. A guy with solid size (not the giant people think he is), that was into whatever he was doing in the ring and made it look explosive and legitimate. He was such a treat. Brodie Lee has a massive chip on his shoulder, and because they're afraid to present guys too similar to how they were in WWE, because they listen to the internet and think they'll reject it, they've completely changed him and given him _the_ most bush league debut for anyone since the Shockmaster. 

His gear is awful. The matches he's been having reek of "Please remember I'm talented," and the vignettes are just fucking smarmy "Lol, Vince is a tyrant" in-jokes that make the guys and the promotion look bitter and insecure.

How hard was it to license "Immigrant Song" and have Brodie Lee kill people in a few minutes and look like a fucking psychopath doing it? Not hard at all, but they've made it hard for themselves because they are nerds that think that everything needs to be "different."


----------



## The Principal (Apr 5, 2019)

rbl85 said:


> Was it Worth a new thread ?


Probably wouldn’t get as much attention if it was posted in an existing thread, and I think attention was the only motive for this.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

He's not trash he's just not this underutilized hidden gem some see him as. He's a great tag guy or midcard but not midcard title type guy. He should be dominating in tags or the guy folk beat on their way to a midcard belt.


----------



## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

It's okay to make a critic about any wrestler but at least put some fucking effort lol


----------



## AreYaSerious (Apr 2, 2020)

Tell us why? I kind of like it. I'd rather not see him in the dark order but I like Brodie Lee so far.

It's okay not to like someone but if you're gonna come and make a thread about it, tell us why.


Side note: I liked seeing QT Marshall get beat. He should be a jobber.


----------



## Wridacule (Aug 23, 2018)

Almost every time he's on screen someone gets wrecked. He brings an element of danger a lot of guys don't.


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

To be honest he's starting to grow on me. I'm liking this.


----------



## Hangman (Feb 3, 2017)

I'd take him over Fatt Lardy any day 🤷‍♂️


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

The Wood said:


> His gear is awful.
> 
> the vignettes are just fucking smarmy "Lol, Vince is a tyrant" in-jokes that make the guys and the promotion look bitter and insecure.


I'm a huge fan of his potential. And the new character should be excellent, save for the insecure parody elements. But there's 2 unavoidable criticisms here:

1. An intelligent monster heel, obsessed with power and eliminating weakness, would never expose such insecurity in himself by taking indirect, comedic shots from a smaller pond. It kills the character because we're watching him show weakness with his actions, and doing so while legitimately thinking what he's doing is intelligent, presumably, which then creates a slight dent to his aura when playing an intelligent character.

But the character's direction could change on a dime.
It's the second criticism that is most concerning.

2. The second criticism is most concerning because it used to be 100% controllable, but now it's a sign it will never, ever change.

It's the fact that a fully motivated Brodie Lee, unfortunately, looks fatter than a 70yo Vince McMahon.


----------



## Oracle (Nov 9, 2011)

Brodie Lee is easily the best of the new talent they have signed. 

i agree with you re matt hardy but not here.


----------



## liquified perception (Apr 3, 2020)

he is cute


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

I have to agree. I've been following Brodie's career before he got into WWE and back then he was doing a Bruiser Brody gimmick which I think he needs to get back into without being a tribute act. Just be a big wild man who kicks peoples faces in.

This week his segment poked fun at WWE's formal dressing policy. We get it, you hate WWE. What else you got?


----------



## liquified perception (Apr 3, 2020)

why would he need anything else?


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss (Apr 6, 2012)

this dork was saying he won't watch AEW ever again after the Hardy/Jericho angle lol.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

liquified perception said:


> why would he need anything else?


In wrestling the design is to make money, draw ratings and sell tickets. Brodie Lee mocking the rules in WWE doesn't do any of those three things and it's already old for me and I'm sure others. 

It's similar to the Voodoo Kin Mafia gimmick in TNA where Road Dogg and Billy Gunn wanted to fight Shawn Michaels and Triple H. They mocked them both plus the WWE for about 8 weeks before people stopped caring, saw it as petty and stopped supporting the gimmick.


----------



## liquified perception (Apr 3, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> In wrestling the design is to make money, draw ratings and sell tickets. Brodie Lee mocking the rules in WWE doesn't do any of those three things and it's already old for me and I'm sure others.
> 
> It's similar to the Voodoo Kin Mafia gimmick in TNA where Road Dogg and Billy Gunn wanted to fight Shawn Michaels and Triple H. They mocked them both plus the WWE for about 8 weeks before people stopped caring, saw it as petty and stopped supporting the gimmick.


that isn't necessarily the design,and not in all of wrestling.besides,this CAN make money and do all that things,if they keep doin it long enough,how do u automatically know it won't? r u by any chance blind wwe mark/shill?


----------



## bonkertons (Aug 23, 2014)

Thanks for the info. The next time another useless thought enters your brain, please feel free to create another thread.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

liquified perception said:


> that isn't necessarily the design,and not in all of wrestling.besides,this CAN make money and do all that things,if they keep doin it long enough,how do u automatically know it won't? r u by any chance blind wwe mark/shill?


It is the design. The AEW audience is made up of almost 100% hardcore wrestling fans who read the newsletters, listen to podcasts and know about Vince's weird quirks when it comes to running WWE. It can't make money because nobody wants to buy a PPV or a ticket to a show to see Brodie Lee vaguely make fun of the way WWE operates. 

I haven't watched WWE week to week since 2006 so I'm pretty far from a WWE fan.


----------



## liquified perception (Apr 3, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> It is the design. The AEW audience is made up of almost 100% hardcore wrestling fans who read the newsletters, listen to podcasts and know about Vince's weird quirks when it comes to running WWE. It can't make money because nobody wants to buy a PPV or a ticket to a show to see Brodie Lee vaguely make fun of the way WWE operates.
> 
> I haven't watched WWE week to week since 2006 so I'm pretty far from a WWE fan.


like I said,it's not ALWAYS that design.
how do u know what aew audience is made up of? how did u come to that number precisely?
how do u know NOBODY,like LITERALLY NOT ONE INDIVIDUAL,wants to buy a ticket to a show that does that? you are talkin literally out of your ass,with no logic or proofs or evidence,just random statements and opinions presented as facts lol

I don't believe you


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

liquified perception said:


> like I said,it's not ALWAYS that design.
> how do u know what aew audience is made up of? how did u come to that number precisely?
> how do u know NOBODY,like LITERALLY NOT ONE INDIVIDUAL,wants to buy a ticket to a show that does that? you are talkin literally out of your ass,with no logic or proofs or evidence,just random statements and opinions presented as facts lol
> 
> I don't believe you


Thus far we have seen Brodie making some subtle jab at WWE weekly.

It's pretty obvious of what the AEW fan base is made up of. That first show they did had well over 1 million tune in and all that is left are the hardcore fans who think Omega is the greatest of all time and that AEW can do no wrong. You are right though there might be casual fans who have been hooked but I really doubt it.

How do I know nobody wants to buy a ticket to see a guy slag off the WWE? Past experience. TNA had so many guys come out and hate on WWE and it did nothing for them. A subtle jab here and there won't hurt anyone but when being the guy who hates WWE is your identity how do you capitalise?


----------



## liquified perception (Apr 3, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Thus far we have seen Brodie making some subtle jab at WWE weekly.
> 
> It's pretty obvious of what the AEW fan base is made up of. That first show they did had well over 1 million tune in and all that is left are the hardcore fans who think Omega is the greatest of all time and that AEW can do no wrong. You are right though there might be casual fans who have been hooked but I really doubt it.
> 
> How do I know nobody wants to buy a ticket to see a guy slag off the WWE? Past experience. TNA had so many guys come out and hate on WWE and it did nothing for them. A subtle jab here and there won't hurt anyone but when being the guy who hates WWE is your identity how do you capitalise?


it isn't obvious at all, they have very heterogeneous fanbase

well that may change over time,just cuz people found something unappealing IN THE PAST, doesn't mean they will ALWAYS,IN THE FUTURE find it unappealing again,that's logical fallacy. you can capitalise by putting the title on brodie lee and watch aew get 3+ mil ratings,cuz everyone hates vince and likes to watch people mock him,it's money gimmick ffs


----------



## kingfrass44 (Sep 19, 2019)

liquified perception said:


> like I said,it's not ALWAYS that design.
> how do u know what aew audience is made up of? how did u come to that number precisely?
> I don't believe you


you are talkin literally out of your ass,with no logic or proofs or evidence,just random statements and opinions presented as facts lol
Majority of fans aew 
You mean yourself Hardcore
want to believe it or not, this is painful facts


----------



## Zapato (Jun 7, 2015)

It makes worry what they are going to do to Revival when they come on board, turn them into rappers? I thought it was Vince that took talent from elsewhere then soiled it with his own idea while feeding them to his own guys. Ironically Brodie Lee in parodying Vince is proving Vince right not to see anything more than a Hillbilly gimmick, as if this all he has (and those ideas he chatted about on Jericho’s podcast), too right Vince was right to shoot it down. He even took that potshot about the Bludgeon Brothers which was better than this, just as always seemed the story of Harper and Rowan each of them kept individually getting hurt.

I really like what they have done with Lance Archer and adore Jake and have done since I was a kid, but it just pains me that I wanted Brodie doing that role and not this. All that pent up frustration at wanting to be used, and he gets a crack at free reign and it’s this? It‘s almost like when Sandow went to Impact.


----------



## liquified perception (Apr 3, 2020)

kingfrass44 said:


> you are talkin literally out of your ass,with no logic or proofs or evidence,just random statements and opinions presented as facts lol
> Majority of fans aew
> You mean yourself Hardcore
> want to believe it or not, this is painful facts


what?


----------



## P Thriller (Jan 6, 2016)

AEW, just like WWE, is ruining his potential. The Dark Order is a failure and they should have pulled the plug on it a long time ago. It is doing him no favors. Either way, he really needs to find his identity. He can talk, He can wrestle and he is big but he hasn't really put together an entertaining personality.


----------



## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Why do all these wrestling promotions keep falling into the trap of having to shoot on wwe on their shows.

I really thought aew was going to be different with the noise that was coming from the promotion before they started doing TV shows but they couldn't help themselves, it's crazy coz it was actually wwe at first that was bringing up aew. Catering to smart marks is not going to help their business grow.

As for Brodie Lee, this dark order full of generic losers that nobody gives a fuck about is dragging the guy down as he has actually come across as engaging in his vignettes and there is some potential in his character if he could shake off this crappy stable and move away from the Vince McMahon stuff.


----------



## Swan-San (May 25, 2019)

I think they need writers for things like this. Sometimes people need help and they'll be good. So far most of AEW seems like a good attempt from amatuers at doing a professionals job at writing scripts.
He seems like he has charisma he just needs to confidence and a good story and direction to follow, i'm not really feeling this. I was expecting a more Jim Jones esq leader not a coorporate leader with pussified followers who fear him for no reason. He babbles a bit in his promos and it seems pointless, but I do like him and think he has potential with the right direction.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Thank you


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

AreYaSerious said:


> Tell us why? I kind of like it. I'd rather not see him in the dark order but I like Brodie Lee so far.
> 
> It's okay not to like someone but if you're gonna come and make a thread about it, tell us why.
> 
> ...


You may like him but hes not goong to move the needle and get over like mjf and hangman. AEW needs to bemkre careful with wwe pickings. Most of the wwe roster aint moving the needle for getting bug crowd pops for a reason


----------



## Mike E (Feb 7, 2020)

I really like Brodie's character. I think he is doing some very good vignettes and talks very well. I will be happy when he starts wrestling some stronger competition. I'm not the biggest fan of squash matches but I do understand why they do them.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Hangman said:


> I'd take him over Fatt Lardy any day 🤷‍♂️


Luckily, in AEW you get both!



liquified perception said:


> that isn't necessarily the design,and not in all of wrestling.besides,this CAN make money and do all that things,if they keep doin it long enough,how do u automatically know it won't? r u by any chance blind wwe mark/shill?


Brodie Lee cannot make any money. Not anymore. It’s done. Finished. He’s a geek. They established that themselves when they put him with The Dark Order and sent him out there looking like he made his gear in a kindergarten art class. He’s fucked.

Because the gimmick is meant to childishly mock Vince, Bruce Prichard or someone has probably shown him, and Vince probably cackled to himself because it is sooooo bad.



liquified perception said:


> like I said,it's not ALWAYS that design.
> how do u know what aew audience is made up of? how did u come to that number precisely?
> how do u know NOBODY,like LITERALLY NOT ONE INDIVIDUAL,wants to buy a ticket to a show that does that? you are talkin literally out of your ass,with no logic or proofs or evidence,just random statements and opinions presented as facts lol
> 
> I don't believe you


AEW fans, ladies and gentlemen. 



liquified perception said:


> it isn't obvious at all, they have very heterogeneous fanbase
> 
> well that may change over time,just cuz people found something unappealing IN THE PAST, doesn't mean they will ALWAYS,IN THE FUTURE find it unappealing again,that's logical fallacy. you can capitalise by putting the title on brodie lee and watch aew get 3+ mil ratings,cuz everyone hates vince and likes to watch people mock him,it's money gimmick ffs


Look into the crowd and what do you see? Ugly white people. That’s not heterogeneous, genius. Wrestling chased cool people away a long time ago, and AEW is NOT going to bring them back.


----------



## BlueEyedDevil (Dec 26, 2019)

Brodie Lee is my second most favorite member of the roster with Jericho being #1. Brodie is big, intimidating, and dangerous.


----------



## liquified perception (Apr 3, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Luckily, in AEW you get both!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nope lol stop lyin


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

liquified perception said:


> nope lol stop lyin


Where's the lie?


----------



## AreYaSerious (Apr 2, 2020)

shandcraig said:


> You may like him but hes not goong to move the needle and get over like mjf and hangman. AEW needs to bemkre careful with wwe pickings. Most of the wwe roster aint moving the needle for getting bug crowd pops for a reason


Can't have big crowd pops without a crowd, WWE isn't getting big crowd pops either.. Kinda just how it is right now. I think with AEW getting more momentum better talent will come along. However I think Brodie could be a good wrestler for AEW.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Dizzie said:


> Why do all these wrestling promotions keep falling into the trap of having to shoot on wwe on their shows.


The crowds react positively to it hence why they think it's a good idea. A subtle jab every now and then at the WWE to "stick it to the man" is fine but basing entire characters around it very rarely works.

WWE themselves did it towards WCW back in the day with the Billionaire Ted skits and it was cringe. Huckster and Nacho Man Savage weren't much better either it made the WWF look bad.

WCW also did it with characters like Oklahoma who were also super cringe.

TNA did it so many times and it very rarely came across well although the times someone was genuinely done wrong by WWE and made that known it was received well. The times TNA based entire characters around hating WWE it sucked though.

Now AEW is doing it and it's still cringe.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

It bothers me how they do it but then say they didn't do it. Cody is like "Oh, I just hit this throne with a sledgehammer because I thought it was cool," or "I guess I can see the similarities between Vince McMahon and Brodie Lee, but I swear that's not what we're trying to do." Fucking cowards lol.


----------



## Awareness (Jun 11, 2015)

One of the big payoffs to one of your big angles that has been around since the beginning is the leader doing an extended shoot promo on Vince/WWE. 

Is this TNA?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I'm surprised The Dark Order aren't called The Villain Kin Menagerie or something like that.

By the way, why would a group that wants to recruit people call themselves "The Dark Order?" Shouldn't they be "The Light Order?" You know, to make themselves sound good?

God, this gimmick is fucking shit. Tony Khan needs to fire himself as booker if this is really his.


----------



## JBLGOAT (Mar 24, 2014)

Yeah with the whole "perception=reality" thing it's unquestionably vince mcmahon. 

Lots of gimmicks are based on real people/characters. Not everyone is going to like every gimmick and storyline.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Luke Harper was excellent. A guy with solid size (not the giant people think he is), that was into whatever he was doing in the ring and made it look explosive and legitimate. He was such a treat. Brodie Lee has a massive chip on his shoulder, and because they're afraid to present guys too similar to how they were in WWE, because they listen to the internet and think they'll reject it, they've completely changed him and given him _the_ most bush league debut for anyone since the Shockmaster.
> 
> His gear is awful. The matches he's been having reek of "Please remember I'm talented," and the vignettes are just fucking smarmy "Lol, Vince is a tyrant" in-jokes that make the guys and the promotion look bitter and insecure.
> 
> How hard was it to license "Immigrant Song" and have Brodie Lee kill people in a few minutes and look like a fucking psychopath doing it? Not hard at all, but they've made it hard for themselves because they are nerds that think that everything needs to be "different."


I know you didn’t just complain about his gear. Lol


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Whoever came up with the idea doesn't know much about cults and it's clear. If you look at the history of cults which I have done in the past because it's an interesting topic you'll see that most cult leaders are incredibly nice at least at first to draw the people in and get them to join. Scientology for example makes promises at their Californian church that if young actors join they will receive help to become Hollywood stars, others join Scientology to feel part of something bigger or with the promises of happiness and fulfilment. Generally cults are super attractive early on with really charismatic people leading the charge to get more and more people to join.

Then once the members are kind of at a point of no return the abuse starts occurring. Members won't leave because they either believe in the cause or are afraid of losing things (Family, money, place to live etc). A cult leader wouldn't be getting in peoples faces over things like attire and coughing/sneezing.

I think it's a hard angle to book but I think Brodie should've made his debut as this ultra charismatic tweener leaning more towards the side of babyface to begin with. Start approaching wrestlers promising them better lives, help with their insecurities etc etc. Recruit this cool group of cult members who genuinely believe in Brodie's vision and then slowly something happens to cause Brodie to snap and he goes from this ultra charismatic tweener to a full blown heel. He can then focus on completely asinine things like sneezing and dress code because it would then make sense because he's stressed and all fucked up mentally due to whatever happened.

If you book it that way you build emotional connection with not only Brodie but his followers PLUS he has reasoning to act like a dickhead cult leader. For someone just tuning in without context Brodie is just bullying guys in masks for no reason. We have no connection with the dudes in masks or with Brodie.


----------



## Awareness (Jun 11, 2015)

I also think he should have totally chopped off the beard since it's way too linked to his Wyatt Family days and will leave that impression to any WWE/casual fan. I just look back and see how even though they are the same person, Mean Mark and Undertaker look like totally different people. This is Luke Harper but he talks more and wears some goofy outfit that doesn't even look all that different from his Bludgeon Brothers get up. 

It's amusing how even though it's not necessarily meant to be one, but Seth Rollins and his Monday Night Messiah gimmick is more of an appropriate and 'realistic' cult leader gimmick than this Exalted One shit.


----------



## Deathiscoming (Feb 1, 2019)

liquified perception said:


> he is cute, why would he need anything else?


Cute?? 

As for the OP, Brodie Lee/Luke Harper is damn talented and good, but the whole AEW show, their roster, and the Dark Order thing is garbage. AEW and WWE both suck.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Apparently the gimmick has come from Tony Khan. It’s easy to imagine a kid coming up with it and wanting it to be like the Corporate Ministry only with more corporate than ministry.


----------



## PandaPawPaw (Nov 28, 2014)

It's hard to like him due to seeing how meh he was in WWE even though it wasn't due to him. It'll take a while to get used to him being his own character in AEW.


----------



## go stros (Feb 16, 2020)

I think Brody is in the wrong role. I look at him and still see Luke Harper follower, not a leader. I think he would have made a better #1 monster worker for the Dark Order.


----------



## Jagaver (Aug 11, 2019)

I like what they're trying to present his as, this slightly abusive cult leader, but it's not quite connecting yet. I'll give them a pass as it's hard without a crowd, and without Uno and Stu being around. I think perhaps in the case of Brodie they'd have been better waiting until after the lockdown. It's going to be really hard for them to develop this anywhere at the moment.


----------



## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Apparently the gimmick has come from Tony Khan. It’s easy to imagine a kid coming up with it and wanting it to be like the Corporate Ministry only with more corporate than ministry.


It reminds me more of lucha underground when mil muertes had a trio of bland masked disciples except they were booked stronger.

The dark order were onto a loss from day one, nobody was taking the original crew serious when they debuted at double or nothing, the faction needed a complete overhaul to stand a chance of working, I would have preferred to have seen Jake revealed as the leader and then banish the entire faction for letting him down and had him recruit both Brodie Lee and lance archer as his new recruits.


----------



## dan the marino (Oct 22, 2006)

Blocked for having objectively wrong opinions kid.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

dan the marino said:


> Blocked for having objectively wrong opinions kid.


Well tell us why he's great and not just okay


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Dizzie said:


> It reminds me more of lucha underground when mil muertes had a trio of bland masked disciples except they were booked stronger.
> 
> The dark order were onto a loss from day one, nobody was taking the original crew serious when they debuted at double or nothing, the faction needed a complete overhaul to stand a chance of working, I would have preferred to have seen Jake revealed as the leader and then banish the entire faction for letting him down and had him recruit both Brodie Lee and lance archer as his new recruits.


That's good damage control. It would have been even smarter to see The Dark Order, realize they are shit out the gate (which isn't hard to do), and just not do any of this in the first place.


----------



## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

P Thriller said:


> AEW, just like WWE, is ruining his potential.


If he has failed runs in multiple companies how long until he would take blame for the failures? Considering he is meant to have full creative freedom and all, maybe WWE wouldn't give it to him for a reason.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Luke Harper was excellent in the tag team with Rowan circa 2012/2013. I liked his match with Randy Orton at Elimination Chamber 2017. He may be out of that good period though. The dude is 40. And if this is the bush league shit he wants to do, it's going to be hard to bring yourself to care. There's a sweet spot between the booking (WWE when he was great) and the guy (right now) that is probably to blame for why he has never been more than a speed-bump for more over acts. 

It's trendy to put all the blame on the company though. He really should have worked out some promos, worked on a good look and come up with something that would really hit coming out of WWE. He had enough time.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Brodie is a parody of Miscavige, not Vince.

Its Scientology.

And the whole Dark Order is a parody of Scientology. I wonder if he was more supernatural, people would prefer it more? Actually, maybe not.

I love the fact Brodie is studying all of it though and going all in for the character. It'll finesse itself. When a live audience and all the talent are back I am sure we will see their real purpose and presence.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

MJF said:


> Brodie is a parody of Miscavige, not Vince.
> 
> Its Scientology.
> 
> ...


People are so fucking impatient it's unbelievable. The guy does a couple of Vince mocks and the rabbid whiteknights thinks that's ALL he's gona do and it's useless or whatever, without giving the guy a chance.
Being this committed to the character gives me hope this could turn great.


----------



## Zapato (Jun 7, 2015)

The thing is he hasn’t done just a couple of Vince McMahon parodies. He is being called Mr Brodie for crying out loud. He is attached to a group that have soiled the bed already and are on what, the third or fourth reboot. The impatience comes from waiting for Brodie to get a run on his own after waiting so long and the hype building, then we get this. Sure he could change and become something more, dually he could also have dumpster fire from the get-go. As Wood’s has said, Brodie had a hell of alot of time to come up with something and if this is it then he might as well have stayed in the wilderness.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

The Definition of Technician said:


> People are so fucking impatient it's unbelievable. The guy does a couple of Vince mocks and the rabbid whiteknights thinks that's ALL he's gona do and it's useless or whatever, without giving the guy a chance.
> Being this committed to the character gives me hope this could turn great.


If anything it's quite scary that there are parallels to Scientology, cults and Vince McMahon.

Seriously, watch a cult documentary or anything on Miscavige and it's almost obvious it's a parody on him. Ffs, the line be used in his last promo was something Miscavige has said previously.

For me, the vignettes and his character have been a home run. The only negatives I have are his ring attire.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Definition of Technician said:


> People are so fucking impatient it's unbelievable. The guy does a couple of Vince mocks and the rabbid whiteknights thinks that's ALL he's gona do and it's useless or whatever, without giving the guy a chance.
> Being this committed to the character gives me hope this could turn great.


I mean how much more patience can you afford a group that has been around since the beginning. You know Archer doesn't have this problem because he's actually new. Brodie walked into a ready made thing and folk still aren't any closer to knowing what the fuck is up with The Dark Order.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> I mean how much more patience can you afford a group that has been around since the beginning. You know Archer doesn't have this problem because he's actually new. Brodie walked into a ready made thing and folk still aren't any closer to knowing what the fuck is up with The Dark Order.


I feel like with Brodie it's almost a re-set and they're going to drag this out, so we're not close to the finish line


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Definition of Technician said:


> I feel like with Brodie it's almost a re-set and they're going to drag this out, so we're not close to the finish line


And that's the problem. He really should've been given freedom instead of being tasked with saving this group that has already been spinning it's wheels.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> And that's the problem. He really should've been given freedom instead of being tasked with saving this group that has already been spinning it's wheels.


but it seems he is enjoying it and wants to work the program considering he's very dedicated to it.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Definition of Technician said:


> but it seems he is enjoying it and wants to work the program considering he's very dedicated to it.


Wrestlers personally enjoying themselves doesn't really matter to me, especially if I don't enjoy it lol. For as much as I don't see star potential in him, this gimmick feels like a disservice.


----------



## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

They just need to call it quits like the Nightmare Collective.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

The first promo was cpearly stuff targeted at Vince, as was the 2nd though not as obvious. And here’s the thing, you can call this a Vince Parody, you can call this Darwinism, or anything else. This started with parodying Vince, and that’s nothing I care to see for a variety of reasons:

1. You’re constantly thinking of someone else during his promos. I mean let’s just be honest here if people didn’t have the reaction of “OMG he’s mocking Vince!” would this even have half the people talking about it that they do now? Probably not. You can argue that’s a good thing, but again, if the first thing I think when I see Brodie now is Vince, is it really?

2. This doesn’t really do anything to benefit the Dark Order as a stable. With the kind of mindset Brodie has created, the only people that would want to join this group are complete losers. Most of them are just nameless faces in masks.

People call this being a good cult leader, but I don’t. A cult leader to me should be someone who is charismatic to the point where you actually believe he’s s good person helping you when in reality he’s pure evil. There’s nothing subtle about the stuff Brodie is doing. He’s just an asshole.

So with the current character Brodie is playing, the only one that will really benefit is Brodie. Which leads to point #3.

3. It’s just not that entertaining. Look, I don’t give a shit about defending Vince. This is a guy who is having his talent work live shows during a pandemic instead of just taping mass content. He deserves what he gets.

But that doesn’t mean a parody of him is instantly entertaining. It actually has to deliver. And to me, his segments come across more as awkward than anything else.

When I thought of Brodie leaving WWE and having more freedom, him doing this gimmick wasn’t what I had in mind and from everything I’ve seen of Brodie Lee and Luke Harper in the past, this isn’t the best version of himself. He feels like a guy trying really hard to play a character as opposed to just being a character.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

TD Stinger said:


> The first promo was cpearly stuff targeted at Vince, as was the 2nd though not as obvious. And here’s the thing, you can call this a Vince Parody, you can call this Darwinism, or anything else. This started with parodying Vince, and that’s nothing I care to see for a variety of reasons:
> 
> 1. You’re constantly thinking of someone else during his promos. I mean let’s just be honest here if people didn’t have the reaction of “OMG he’s mocking Vince!” would this even have half the people talking about it that they do now? Probably not. You can argue that’s a good thing, but again, if the first thing I think when I see Brodie now is Vince, is it really?
> 
> ...


1. Depends who you are. I don't see him mocking Vince at all or even parodying him. As mentioned before, he's clearly basing his character on a mix between a stereotypical sociopath and Miscavige. If you see Vince in that, then maybe Vince himself is a sociopath and runs his company like that of a cult. 

2. I mean, that's how it works... Most people in cults are losers. That get brainwashed into believing they actually belong to something worthwhile. They believe Brodie Lee is powerful and because he's made them part of something, are worried that disobeying him would see them going back to being losers on their own. It's peak Stockholm syndrome. 

Regarding believing he's someone good. That's never going to work in wrestling for a viewer. The followers clearly believe he is someone good as they follow him, we see that. The vignettes, him beating up his followers and the squash matches ultimately show US as viewers that he clearly isnt a good person. Those following him are brainwashed. 

Of course he's the only one who's going to benefit. That's the whole point. 

3. And that depends on the viewer. I have found it entertaining. I feel like it probably would have come across better in front of a live audience with the roster of talent available but for what it's been so far, I've enjoyed it. 

He speaks well, his Scientology lines are delivered relatively well, his squash matches are fine and I think he portrays a unnerving figure well. His attire, as I've mentioned a few times, puts me off abit but it is what it is. He needed something different from dirty trucker and I guess all black would have just continued to give people more fuel to the whole "ViNcE pArOdY" thing.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

The Definition of Technician said:


> People are so fucking impatient it's unbelievable. The guy does a couple of Vince mocks and the rabbid whiteknights thinks that's ALL he's gona do and it's useless or whatever, without giving the guy a chance.
> Being this committed to the character gives me hope this could turn great.



Its not about that at all, everything hes done has simply shown he doesn't have "IT" hes an average guy given a cool character which he doesnt executive well and he doesn't have it in the ring either.

Ite not about my opinion because what matters is what the masses of the audience think and even above that.

Hes still talented person and AEW trying many guys out is smart until they catch winners like hangman ans mjf that sre highly over with the crowd.

But of course its still early and things can change. I gave shawn spears a lot of time but that didnt change.

Its just clear what a lot of aew fans think of lee already and you cant hide what fans see and think.

And again there is room for solid workers and you gotta try many to find the ones so this is good.

Hopefully it does change though! Because the character has potential and if true that its scientology basee i dont think main stream promotion has seen something like that so it could work. Sorry lots of random points here lol


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss (Apr 6, 2012)

Lee is a good talent in a wrong role.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1248314749676408834
Hadn't even seen this before. 

Makes sense. People see "alpha leader", "sociopath" and "cult" and automatics think its some kind of WWE parody. 

Its understandable. Vince is a strange alpha leader sociopath who runs his company like a cult.


----------



## ceeder (May 10, 2010)

Honestly, I would have preferred him with Jake and Archer. A tag team that destroys everybody and has a great mouthpiece.

DO is just career death. Also his ring attire is fucking cringeworthy.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

MJF said:


> Brodie is a parody of Miscavige, not Vince.
> 
> Its Scientology.
> 
> ...


I get that you're one of the more vocal optimistic AEW fans here but please lets not try and sway it this way. I find Scientology pretty interesting and have done quite a lot of research. Brodie Lee has very few similarities with David Miscavige and is clearly a Vince McMahon knock off. 

IF Brodie was doing a David Miscavige parody he'd be talking about "the hole" and sending his minions to it, he'd be subjecting them to rigorous "religious discipline", he'd be having them throw insults at one another to lower their self esteem (A brainwashing technique apparently). Hell, if it's all just a big Scientology parody why not have the Dark Order undergo personality tests which is probably the most publicised way of Scientology recruitment or creating his own infomercials or videos promoting his group? Why isn't he buddying up to wrestlers who can benefit The Dark Order like Miscavige did with Tom Cruise and other celebrities? Why aren't his minions going on recruitment drives?

Not to mention Miscavige is a short guy with a Napoleon Complex who is able to bully his followers due to rank whilst Brodie Lee is a 6'5 massive beast of a man who can bully his minions because he's physically intimidating. 

Now look at the similarities with Vince.

Tall and physically intimidating? Yes.

Allegedly gets upset about people sneezing or yawning because it's a sign of weakness? Yes.

Has had a dress policy for his superstars for close to a decade? Yes.

Wants his minions to look better than the average person at the airport? Yup. That's another Vince thing where he likes his stars to walk through an airport or into a public place and have people know they're a big deal.

Mr. Brodie? Sounds a lot like Vince running around for the better part of 20 years demanding people call him Mr. McMahon on TV and not Vince. We also know that the WWE backstage area is quite formal and that nobody really is on a first name basis with Vince McMahon unless they're close to him.

In 3 weeks we've had 5 similarities with Vince from a guy who openly doesn't like Vince and a company that encourages people to shoot on WWE any chance they get. Brodie is doing this gimmick to "throw shade" at Vince McMahon and trying to imply WWE is some kind of cult clearly. To even suggest it's a Miscavige parody is laughable.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I get that you're one of the more vocal optimistic AEW fans here but please lets not try and sway it this way. I find Scientology pretty interesting and have done quite a lot of research. Brodie Lee has very few similarities with David Miscavige and is clearly a Vince McMahon knock off.
> 
> IF Brodie was doing a David Miscavige parody he'd be talking about "the hole" and sending his minions to it, he'd be subjecting them to rigorous "religious discipline", he'd be having them throw insults at one another to lower their self esteem (A brainwashing technique apparently). Hell, if it's all just a big Scientology parody why not have the Dark Order undergo personality tests which is probably the most publicised way of Scientology recruitment or creating his own infomercials or videos promoting his group? Why isn't he buddying up to wrestlers who can benefit The Dark Order like Miscavige did with Tom Cruise and other celebrities? Why aren't his minions going on recruitment drives?
> 
> ...


".. That means you two are looking at an exit ramp and not the highway ahead where the next sign reads." 

A Scientology enthusiast like yourself would know who said that line right? 

Brodie said it this past week. Its quite clear he's going all in on this gimmick. 

Why isn't he buddying up? It's literally been, what? 3 weeks? With a depleted roster. Let it play out. He looked like he was taking a keen showing to Marco last week. 

Pretty sure the airport thing was a Kevin Nash saying too. If anything, he's just a stereotypical alpha who wants people in his company to look respectable. Maybe Vince just happens to share similar traits to that of a sociopath... Or a cult leader in general? 

To suggest anything other than the Dark Order being a parody on Scientology is pretty laughable. 

Are there Vince traits in there? Sure. Vince is a shit person, commands respect from his peers and is a sociopath. Would Brodie have thrown some Vince into his work? Sure? But it's certainly not a parody of Vince. Certainly not on the lines of Billionaire Ted anyway. 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the matter. You'll continue to view Vince when watching Brodie come on your screen and I'll continue watching with patience to see what happens. It is what it is mate.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

MJF said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1248314749676408834
> Hadn't even seen this before.
> 
> Makes sense. People see "alpha leader", "sociopath" and "cult" and automatics think its some kind of WWE parody.
> ...


Cody also said he wasn't necessarily taking a shot when he destroyed the HHH throne lol


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

RapShepard said:


> Cody also said he wasn't necessarily taking a shot when he destroyed the HHH throne lol


Pretty sure he said it was a shot at HHH but it was Cody taking the shot, not AEW.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

MJF said:


> I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the matter. You'll continue to view Vince when watching Brodie come on your screen and I'll continue watching with patience to see what happens. It is what it is mate.


The "wait and see approach" drove me insane many times watching WWE, but so far AEW hasn't really given me a reason not to be patient with them.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

MJF said:


> Pretty sure he said it was a shot at HHH but it was Cody taking the shot, not AEW.


No he said "it wasn't a shot at HHH just a shot I couldn't do the role yada yada" lol


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

The Definition of Technician said:


> The "wait and see approach" drove me insane many times watching WWE, but so far AEW hasn't really given me a reason not to be patient with them.


AEW themselves said it best:

"We want long term stories and sometimes you have to struggle and suffer a little bit to get to the climax of the story. Wrestling fans are just used to getting exactly what they need at the snap of a finger now"


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

RapShepard said:


> No he said "it wasn't a shot at HHH just a shot I couldn't do the role yada yada" lol


Oh, fair enough. I must have read this wrong. 

"Rhodes said the decision to destroy the throne was his since he sees it as a more personal dig at Triple H for the lack of opportunities he received from him in the past.

He said: “The decision to blow up the throne was my decision alone and doesn’t reflect on AEW at all.

It was something I had thought long and hard about, and I, honestly, think it came from more of a personal standpoint than the company firing that first shot.

"And that’s gonna be something that, I don’t know how many more of those I get in me, because as I become more engrained in the AEW business side, as an employee and as one of the executive vice presidents, I don’t get as many, ‘Oh, well he’s just a dumb talent doing dumb things.’

"Plain and simple, I was a huge fan of Triple H. I learned a great deal from Triple H, a great deal. I probably wrestled him in the Capital One Arena.

"But when push came to shove and I thought I was better than 99 percent of the people he was putting ahead of me, he didn’t see that. So in that moment, there is no greater revenge in the world than success.

"So I knew I was walking out to a sold-out crowd, wrestling a 50-year-old man in a match that people, at one point, deemed unworthy and the place was literally shaking. So I felt no need. Like, this is the perfect time to do it, to fire my own shot, and it was my own shot, not an AEW shot.”


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

MJF said:


> Oh, fair enough. I must have read this wrong.
> 
> "Rhodes said the decision to destroy the throne was his since he sees it as a more personal dig at Triple H for the lack of opportunities he received from him in the past.
> 
> ...


Also said this during the scrum

”Okay, so, I had a literal dream about this type of entrance. I loved when Triple H came out at WrestleMania 30 and he was kind of like Shao Kahn and it was really cool. The throne kind of symbolized his reign, and, man, I want to play ball. I know we don’t say ‘competition’ but it stands for itself. I also want people to know this role, this Executive Vice President role, which I love and I’m excited about, I want to be a wrestler first. And that’s great, we were able to do that tonight. Tony Khan sat in Gorilla and timed the show. That takes years how to learn. Gerald Brisco, he was like the only guy who could do it for a long time. Tony did it tonight on his first try. So they don’t always need us there in those executive roles. We were able to go out there and be wrestlers. And that, more than anything... not so much a shot at Triple H, more a shot at I’m not ready to dive into that role and lean into it. I want to be a wrestler first and foremost. I’m not done. I know that people think Kenny (Omega) is the best, and I know that people think Chris (Jericho) is the best, and now Jon Moxley is the best -- I’m always going to be wondering ‘what can I do? What’s the step?’


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

MJF said:


> 1. Depends who you are. I don't see him mocking Vince at all or even parodying him. As mentioned before, he's clearly basing his character on a mix between a stereotypical sociopath and Miscavige. If you see Vince in that, then maybe Vince himself is a sociopath and runs his company like that of a cult.
> 
> 2. I mean, that's how it works... Most people in cults are losers. That get brainwashed into believing they actually belong to something worthwhile. They believe Brodie Lee is powerful and because he's made them part of something, are worried that disobeying him would see them going back to being losers on their own. It's peak Stockholm syndrome.
> 
> ...


Well yes that is basically how Vince runs his company. Brodie yelling at guys sneezing and yawning, which are things people like Paul Heyman and others have talked about before when it comes to Vince. If you don't know about those things like I'm sure a number of fans don't, then it's not really an issue. But I do know those things, and I can't just forget while watching. And if you've seen most of the social media response to these promos, usually the first name you see when people tweet isn't "Brodie", it's "Vince."

You say that making people believe he's good wouldn't work for a viewer. I look at it the opposite way. Because of how obvious he makes it that he's an asshole, it doesn't allow for any subtly or depth to this act. So anyone that would follow him has nothing to really aspire to, so it makes it almost impossible to care about them. Now this has been AEW's gameplan, as they name these guys be numbers. To me what I'm seeing isn't brainwashing because it's completely transparent with what he's doing. And the people who follow him should know what they're getting into right away because again, there's no real depth to this.

As a viewer, I want something a little more challenging. If Brodie was really brainwashing people, he would be able to take people higher on the card and convince them that what he is doing is the right thing even though it's clearly not.

And as far as Brodie being the only one that benefits, the problem is the Dark Order was introduced as a stable far before Brodie was even in the company. Far before the idea of an Exalted One even existed. So now if you're sacrificing everyone in Dark Order which is mainly Uno and Grayson just to try and get Brodie over the rest of the group just feels like an afterthought. And I can't say the act has been good enough to really justify that.

And about it being entertaining, it's not really clicking for me yet. And yes, a lot of that may have to do with not being in front an audience right now. We'll see how that changes. But when I see him in the ring, I see the same guy I've seen for years doing the same kind of moves and when I see him doing the promos, he feels like a guy reciting line as opposed to really being that character.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

WWE just had a 3 man group called the Forgotten Sons debut on Smackdown last night and the leader looks very similar to Lee so either the leader copied Lee's look or vice versa.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lots of very intelligent posts pointing out what is wrong with this, and calling bullshit on the “it’s not a Vince parody” bullshit, but (and this is coming from long-winded me) The Dark Order aren’t worth the fucking energy.

They are the worst faction since DOA. They have shat the bed since day one. They have a terrible name, terrible members and have never done anything good. The AEW fans who eat up anything have rejected it countless times. And they keep jamming it down your fucking throats because it’s Tony Khan’s gimmick that he’s always wanted to do since he was a teenager and this is a vanity promotion.

You can really cut this conversation down to “The Dark Order is horrible.” Because it is. The Dark Order is horrible.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

elidrakefan76 said:


> WWE just had a 3 man group called the Forgotten Sons debut on Smackdown last night and the leader looks very similar to Lee so either the leader copied Lee's look or vice versa.


The Forgotten Sons have been around for like three years.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

MJF said:


> 1. Depends who you are. I don't see him mocking Vince at all or even parodying him. As mentioned before, he's clearly basing his character on a mix between a stereotypical sociopath and Miscavige. If you see Vince in that, then maybe Vince himself is a sociopath and runs his company like that of a cult.
> 
> 2. I mean, that's how it works... Most people in cults are losers. That get brainwashed into believing they actually belong to something worthwhile. They believe Brodie Lee is powerful and because he's made them part of something, are worried that disobeying him would see them going back to being losers on their own. It's peak Stockholm syndrome.
> 
> ...


You're being intentionally obtuse. While the entire thing isn't a Vince parody, he's obviously made some comments that Vince is rumored to have said in the past. Things like Vince not liking people sneezing around him, he must eat first and making people dress better are where they are parodying Vince. This is them likening Vince to a cult leader, not outright playing a Vince McMahon character. As if Cody is going to straight up admit to that. Your staunch defense on this is laughable, because it's pretty fucking obvious what they're doing.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

elidrakefan76 said:


> WWE just had a 3 man group called the Forgotten Sons debut on Smackdown last night and the leader looks very similar to Lee so either the leader copied Lee's look or vice versa.


How do they look similar? One of them looks like a marine and the other looks like a hobo in a suit. Oh they both have beards? How could WWE copy AEW like that?!


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I don’t know how anyone can deny the Vince elements. Yes, the cult recruiting has bits of Scientology mixed in, but it’s obviously a Vince parody. Denying it is just weird, and it says to me that people must think it’s a bad idea to parody Vince. Otherwise, why deny it? So it’s like an unconscious admission that this is pretty horrible.


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit (Aug 23, 2016)

Troll better.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

Cult03 said:


> How do they look similar? One of them looks like a marine and the other looks like a hobo in a suit. Oh they both have beards? How could WWE copy AEW like that?!


The hobo in the suit is the one that Lee copied then or vice versa because they look eerily similar and it isn't just because they have beards.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

elidrakefan76 said:


> The hobo in the suit is the one that Lee copied then or vice versa because they look eerily similar and it isn't just because they have beards.


What? Neither of them copied from each other. Ryker has looked like that since his TNA days and he's fucking jacked. The beard is the only similarity


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Saying Brodie Lee and Jaxson Ryker look eerily similar is high-key racist [emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

RapShepard said:


> Saying Brodie Lee and Jaxson Ryker look eerily similar is high-key racist [emoji23][emoji23]


Fine. I'll say that Brodie Lee is a Ryker wannabe then. And both of them could be Braun Strowman wannabes. Or all of them are Bruiser Brody wannabes. Who the heck knows.


----------



## Dondada78 (Jun 10, 2019)

They should have just signed Killer Kross & Scarlett Bordeaux like I said instead Matt Hardy & Brodie Lee. They have significantly more upside than WWE "stars" in the twilight of their careers. Only way I think Brodie Lee would be a success would be to release him and hope he gets picked up by either New Japan, NWA, MLW, Impact or ROH. 

I liked the idea of him apart of the revamped Villain Enterprises with Marty Scurll, Flip Gordon, Brody King, Darby Allin & El Phantasma. Not so much as a singles wrestler and head of the dark order (rejects).


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Brodie Lee in New Japan could have been something, provided his body could hold up. Give me Suzuki vs. Lee all day long, please. 

They tried to sign Killer Kross & Scarlett, but WWE just offer so much more exposure.

Jaxson Ryker (fuck that's a forced name) has had that look since TNA. It's just a cliched wrestling look (long hair + beard). It works for his pissed off veteran gimmick. Brodie Lee was going for gator stalker, but now he's got it tied back because he's doing the Vince McMahon knock-off. 

i


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

The Wood said:


> Brodie Lee in New Japan could have been something, provided his body could hold up. Give me Suzuki vs. Lee all day long, please.
> 
> *They tried to sign Killer Kross & Scarlett, but WWE just offer so much more exposure.*
> 
> ...


This. It isn't that AEW didn't try to get Killer Kross. He just chose WWE/NXT instead likely because his woman is there.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

elidrakefan76 said:


> This. It isn't that AEW didn't try to get Killer Kross. He just chose WWE/NXT instead likely because his woman is there.


And his woman is there because she isn't going to Brandi Rhodes jealous and has got a potential audience of 2.3 million people, versus 700k.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

elidrakefan76 said:


> This. It isn't that AEW didn't try to get Killer Kross. He just chose WWE/NXT instead likely because his woman is there.


There hasn't been any confirmation to say that AEW even offered Killer Kross a contract.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

The Wood said:


> And his woman is there because she isn't going to Brandi Rhodes jealous and has got a potential audience of 2.3 million people, versus 700k.


Can't argue with this post though I think Scarlett would have fared better and had a better chance to succeed in AEW. She'll likely just get lost in the shuffle in WWE/NXT.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

elidrakefan76 said:


> Can't argue with this post though I think Scarlett would have fared better and had a better chance to succeed in AEW. She'll likely just get lost in the shuffle in WWE/NXT.


I think if they try and use her as a wrestler in NXT, it will be kind "meh." She'll look good doing it, but then again, so does Alexa Bliss. I think the money in her is as a character and heel manager type -- the bunny boiler that pisses off the other girls because she doesn't care about the Women's Revolution -- she just wants to reclaim "Diva." 

That's gonna get attention. She'll be the biggest women's draw on Wednesday nights.


----------



## Dondada78 (Jun 10, 2019)

Ozell Gray said:


> There hasn't been any confirmation to say that AEW even offered Killer Kross a contract.


Exactly. They should've went all in on that one guy. They should threw the checkbook @ Kross, Hammerstone, ELI Drake, National Treasure Nick Aldi's,Jacob Fatu, Brian Cage & the Von Erich's.
I do like Bronson Steiner as a prospect though. He should be a priority to get under contract & develop. I'm also high on Locked n Loaded, Bill Collier, Lokomotiv Ivan Markov & Edge Stone who are likely ready now.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Holy shit, some grown-ass men! Edge Stone has a tremendous look, but he’d need to change his name. Stone is fine, but the Edge is too similar to, well, Edge.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Dondada78 said:


> Exactly. They should've went all in on that one guy. They should threw the checkbook @ Kross, Hammerstone, ELI Drake, National Treasure Nick Aldi's,Jacob Fatu, Brian Cage & the Von Erich's.
> I do like Bronson Steiner as a prospect though. He should be a priority to get under contract & develop. I'm also high on Locked n Loaded, Bill Collier, Lokomotiv Ivan Markov & Edge Stone who are likely ready now.


Yep they should've at least made an attempt to get Kross but they didn't for some reason. They should've signed Eli Drake and Jacob Fatu when they had the oppritunity last year to sign those guys. Im pretty sure they're getting Brian Cage which isn't good because hes injury proned but hes going there to have his "dream match" against Kenny Omega that he wants. They should be getting young talent like Jacob Fatu, Eli Drake, and Hammerstone ect. They can get these young guys at a much cheaper price than the ex WWE guys. They could sign these young guys at a cheap price develop them and push them as their stars but they're so bent on signing ex WWE guys to big money contracts that it seems pointless at this point. Like I said build up your young talent while you have them because if they don't then their young talent will leave and go to WWE, Impact, or even AAA and thats something you don't want to happen.

So they should be agressive and try and sign these guys especially since the NWA and MLW doesn't pay alot. So they should offer Eli Drake, Jacob Fatu, The Von Erichs, and Hammerstone ect contracts to sign them to bigger money then what they're getting in NWA and MLW.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Holy shit, some grown-ass men! Edge Stone has a tremendous look, but he’d need to change his name. Stone is fine, but the Edge is too similar to, well, Edge.


They need more young talent as well NOT more ex WWE guys like The Revival. If they can get guys like Jacob Fatu, Brian Pillman jr., and Eli Drake they'll straight.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Ozell Gray said:


> There hasn't been any confirmation to say that AEW even offered Killer Kross a contract.


Lol they better have offered him a contract. If they didn't they are incompetent and need to throw in the towel ASAP


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> Lol they better have offered him a contract. If they didn't they are incompetent and need to throw in the towel ASAP


Fully agree if they didn't offer Killer Kross a contract then theres no hope and they can't be trusted to sign talented wrestlers.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Dondada78 said:


> They should have just signed Killer Kross & Scarlett Bordeaux like I said instead Matt Hardy & Brodie Lee. They have significantly more upside than WWE "stars" in the twilight of their careers. Only way I think Brodie Lee would be a success would be to release him and hope he gets picked up by either New Japan, NWA, MLW, Impact or ROH.
> 
> I liked the idea of him apart of the revamped Villain Enterprises with Marty Scurll, Flip Gordon, Brody King, Darby Allin & El Phantasma. Not so much as a singles wrestler and head of the dark order (rejects).


There is nothing in it for Kross and Scarlett. WWE has a magnificent track record for decades and decades of turning people into stars. AEW has helped turn one guy into a star and that is MJF which is more of a happy accident than anything else. MJF got himself over but Kross and Scarlett have no reason to sign with AEW because they've hurt their talent more than helped them.

Also, as The Wood pointed out the WWE exposure is too hard to turn down. If you can have a good run in WWE for 2-3 years it can really set you up with decent side income for the rest of your life and maybe even a living if you were a big star for them. Who do you think is more popular amongst the convention promoters and independent promoters? Billy Gunn or Darby Allin? I know who I'd book...


----------



## Matthew Castillo (Jun 9, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> There is nothing in it for Kross and Scarlett. WWE has a magnificent track record for decades and decades of turning people into stars. AEW has helped turn one guy into a star and that is MJF which is more of a happy accident than anything else. MJF got himself over but Kross and Scarlett have no reason to sign with AEW because they've hurt their talent more than helped them.


Does WWE have a history of turning people into stars? Because most of the major stars in since Vince Sr. died were either already big stars from other promotions that the WWE bought (this includes Hulk Hogan) or were guys that were allowed to just do whatever because the company was feeling desperate (Austin, Rock, and Cena).


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Matthew Castillo said:


> Does WWE have a history of turning people into stars? Because most of the major stars in since Vince Sr. died were either already big stars from other promotions that the WWE bought (this includes Hulk Hogan) or were guys that were allowed to just do whatever because the company was feeling desperate (Austin, Rock, and Cena).


Semantics. I know I’d rather be The Rock than Darby Allin.


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

Why don’t you venture out a little bit? How about an equally pointless thread about an AEW wrestler you don’t hate. . .


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

DOTL said:


> Why don’t you venture out a little bit? How about an equally pointless thread about an AEW wrestler you don’t hate. . .


This has led to good discussion. Stop sooking.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Matthew Castillo said:


> Does WWE have a history of turning people into stars? Because most of the major stars in since Vince Sr. died were either already big stars from other promotions that the WWE bought (this includes Hulk Hogan) or were guys that were allowed to just do whatever because the company was feeling desperate (Austin, Rock, and Cena).


Not sure if serious lol.

Hogan was main eventing AWA but didn't become the superstar that he is today until the WWE gave him the mega push. If Vince never signed Hogan and wasn't into the idea of a big powerful superhero type babyface leading the company Hulk would probably be a pretty big "What if?" story in 2020. WWF definitely made Hogan a star internationally.

Others? There are so many it's hard to list. From the 80's you could say Piper was made a big time international star thanks to the WWF, Jake Roberts, Andre, Savage, Warrior and a heap of others who are still making a living today from wrestling due to being a big deal in the WWF back then.

1990's you have Hall, Nash, Bret, Michaels, Austin, Rock, Foley, Triple H and again a heap of others who are still making a living today from wrestling due to being a big deal for the WWF back then.

2000's you have Cena, Batista, Angle, Orton, Brock, Edge and a heap of others known around the world because of their time in WWE no matter how little.

I get your point that most of these guys got their start somewhere else and maybe even got a taste of TV time elsewhere or were even big regional stars in some territories but all of those guys listed became the stars they are today because of the WWF/WWE making them stars. Even if you wanted to make it a challenge and say that you can't pick anyone who appeared on national television before the WWE it's still a much better list than the AEW offering with guys like Cena, Rock, Orton, Brock, Angle, Edge all kind of getting their TV starts in the WWE and becoming legends in the WWE.

But if we're not counting guys that were on TV before AEW that'd take MJF away because MLW has TV also...


----------



## Matthew Castillo (Jun 9, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Not sure if serious lol.
> 
> Hogan was main eventing AWA but didn't become the superstar that he is today until the WWE gave him the mega push. If Vince never signed Hogan and wasn't into the idea of a big powerful superhero type babyface leading the company Hulk would probably be a pretty big "What if?" story in 2020. WWF definitely made Hogan a star internationally.


If Vince never signed Hogan his national expansion bid would have failed and the WWF would have folded because Vince signed Hogan because he was already the biggest wrestling star in the country, if not the world.


> Others? There are so many it's hard to list. From the 80's you could say Piper was made a big time international star thanks to the WWF, Jake Roberts, Andre, Savage, Warrior and a heap of others who are still making a living today from wrestling due to being a big deal in the WWF back then.
> 
> 1990's you have Hall, Nash, Bret, Michaels, Austin, Rock, Foley, Triple H and again a heap of others who are still making a living today from wrestling due to being a big deal for the WWF back then.
> 
> ...


You might be able to argue the guys in the 90s, but the guys in the 80s are what made the WWF a big deal, not the other way around. The WWF went from a promotion to the promotion in the mid-eighties because Vince bought all the most well known talent in the country.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

The Wood said:


> And his woman is there because she isn't going to Brandi Rhodes jealous and has got a potential audience of 2.3 million people, versus 700k.


he’s going to nxt where they get 600k


----------



## Dondada78 (Jun 10, 2019)

Ozell Gray said:


> They need more young talent as well NOT more ex WWE guys like The Revival. If they can get guys like Jacob Fatu, Brian Pillman jr., and Eli Drake they'll straight.


Eli Drake isn't a young talent @ 38. AEW problem early on is they wanted to be indyriffic. Instead of signing guys who could move the needle they decided to cater to the vocal minority who'll stick around no matter what instead of going after grown men who can portray a character and talk with a live mic in front of them the chose the ddt/pwg spot monkeys with no regard for storytelling & selling. I keep hearing all this talk about Punk, but Punk was NEVER great.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Dondada78 said:


> Eli Drake isn't a young talent @ 38. AEW problem early on is they wanted to be indyriffic. Instead of signing guys who could move the needle they decided to cater to the vocal minority who'll stick around no matter what instead of going after grown men who can portray a character and talk with a live mic in front of them the chose the ddt/pwg spot monkeys with no regard for storytelling & selling. I keep hearing all this talk about Punk, but Punk was NEVER great.


Who should they have signed, in your opinion, who would move a needle? 

Bare in mind, no wrestler truly moves the needle for the biggest wrestling company in existence.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

MJF said:


> Who should they have signed, in your opinion, who would move a needle?
> 
> Bare in mind, no wrestler truly moves the needle for the biggest wrestling company in existence.


no one will move the needle in wwe because the entire company is shit and everyone knows it. No one acts like characters in wwe now,They act as them dorky selves and a lot of people in AEW are making the same mistake. What moves the needle for aew is very un likely 99 percent of the wwe people and aew should reframe from hiring most of them because they have been born into a format that is just hurting the business.

People that will nove the needle in AEW and its going to take a good while like years is a roster full of people that are like MJF and Hangman.Guys that have characters and persona and dont come to the ring acting like their dorky self. We all sit at home being our dorky selfs,Why the hell would we wanna see a bunch of wrestlers act the same. 

Characters drive interest of a brand and of course the brand itself. wwe brand is now generic with zero personality or character to it as is . AEW as a brand is also pretty generic which is insanely shocking to me. I thought they would come swinging with an idenity but they are new so i assume the identity will come in a few years. But right now lik Dyanimte for an example, Its a show it has a name it should be themed it should stand out but its nothing.It really feels no different than a ppv except with out big time mach ups. Its fucking name is Dyanmite so it should act like one but it dont. Things like this are what moves the needle which is direction and history proves this and someone in the business needs to get back to it. Look at the indies,Every promotion is exactly the same


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Chip Chipperson said:


> There is nothing in it for Kross and Scarlett. WWE has a magnificent track record for decades and decades of turning people into stars. AEW has helped turn one guy into a star and that is MJF which is more of a happy accident than anything else. MJF got himself over but Kross and Scarlett have no reason to sign with AEW because they've hurt their talent more than helped them.
> 
> Also, as The Wood pointed out the WWE exposure is too hard to turn down. If you can have a good run in WWE for 2-3 years it can really set you up with decent side income for the rest of your life and maybe even a living if you were a big star for them. Who do you think is more popular amongst the convention promoters and independent promoters? Billy Gunn or Darby Allin? I know who I'd book...



wwe not turned anyone into a star in 20 years except THEIR fluke of Cena. the wwe brand the way it is now prevents stars


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

shandcraig said:


> no one will move the needle in wwe because the entire company is shit and everyone knows it. No one acts like characters in wwe now,They act as them dorky selves and a lot of people in AEW are making the same mistake. What moves the needle for aew is very un likely 99 percent of the wwe people and aew should reframe from hiring most of them because they have been born into a format that is just hurting the business.
> People that will nove the needle in AEW and its going to take a good while like years is a roster full of people that are like MJF and Hangman.Guys that have characters and persona and dont come to the ring acting like their dorky self. We all sit at home being our dorky selfs,Why the hell would we wanna see a bunch of wrestlers act the same.
> 
> Characters drive interest of a brand and of course the brand itself. wwe brand is now generic with zero personality or character to it as is . AEW as a brand is also pretty generic which is insanely shocking to me. I thought they would come swinging with an idenity but they are new so i assume the identity will come in a few years. But right now lik Dyanimte for an example, Its a show it has a name it should be themed it should stand out but its nothing.It really feels no different than a ppv except with out big time mach ups. Its fucking name is Dyanmite so it should act like one but it dont. Things like this are what moves the needle which is direction and history proves this and someone in the business needs to get back to it. Look at the indies,Every promotion is exactly the same


Yes, in future the AEW talent, not tainted by WWE, like MJF, Page, Guevara etc might prove to be draws for the company but everytime AEW aim to sign someone the same people say "they aren't going to move the needle" - I am just intrigued as to why people keep saying this. Who SHOULD they be signing, who's available, who will move the needle? 

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by identity? 

I think the identity of AEW so far is that it tends to lean towards the idea of sending your audience home happy (whilst listening to them for the most part). Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean. 

The show is less then 6 months old. Has had to deal with a pandemic and an audienceless show directly after, arguably their hottest star, Moxley wins the belt and about to enter a pretty interesting world title fued with rising star MJF - which has halted probably most plans they had going into their anniversary PPV of Double or Nothing. 

It needs to evolve. And to be allowed to evolve. I'd personally like to see small little things added to the show which I feel would enhance it and make it different but I'm not sure what you were expecting. A live stick of Dynamite? More fire? Explosions?


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

The Wood said:


> This has led to good discussion. Stop sooking.


Same old crap: AEW sucks. No it doesn’t.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

MJF said:


> Yes, in future the AEW talent, not tainted by WWE, like MJF, Page, Guevara etc might prove to be draws for the company but everytime AEW aim to sign someone the same people say "they aren't going to move the needle" - I am just intrigued as to why people keep saying this. Who SHOULD they be signing, who's available, who will move the needle?
> 
> I'm not entirely sure what you mean by identity?
> 
> ...



Yeah i said it will happen but probably not for a few years. They have to figure out who they are. Being hope for audience is not a brand its an idea on paper. They are changing things constantly to figure out who they are but they still will need to have a brand not act like wwe which acts like its the nhl, nfl, nba,Which is identity less because its just teams of people all acting the same presenting skill in the ring on the field in the rink. A brand is something that has some form of feel of its direction and branding. You dont get it so nevermind 

I like AEW and will continue to watch. Its just going to take a few years to settle into something. Maybe bad exmaple but look at when Paul heyman took over ecw.It did not change right away but a few years later it slowly started to form into its identity. When Eric took over wcw it took a few years to get into the mold of his vision and then slowly build up.

It will come its exciting and i have hope yes. But people are shitting on lee because is the simple truth that he is like many guys from the newest era of wwe. They just dont have IT. We have to keep searching which aew is going to do .The indies are the best place to look because thats where people have to make something for themselves to stand out or nothing happens.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

shandcraig said:


> Yeah i said it will happen but probably not for a few years. They have to figure out who they are. Being hope for audience is not a brand its an idea on paper. They are changing things constantly to figure out who they are but they still will need to have a brand not act like wwe which acts like its the nhl, nfl, nba,Which is identity less because its just teams of people all acting the same presenting skill in the ring on the field in the rink. A brand is something that has some form of feel of its direction and branding. You dont get it so nevermind
> 
> I like AEW and will continue to watch. Its just going to take a few years to settle into something. Maybe bad exmaple but look at when Paul heyman took over ecw.It did not change right away but a few years later it slowly started to form into its identity. When Eric took over wcw it took a few years to get into the mold of his vision and then slowly build up.
> 
> It will come its exciting and i have hope yes. But people are shitting on lee because is the simple truth that he is like many guys from the newest era of wwe. They just dont have IT. We have to keep searching which aew is going to do .The indies are the best place to look because thats where people have to make something for themselves to stand out or nothing happens.


No, you said identity. Not brand. 

I didn't mention brand. So I do get it. Just not sure what on earth you're talking about. 

The early days of WCW and ECW are good comparisons.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Danielallen1410 said:


> he’s going to nxt where they get 600k


He’s part of a system that gets at least 2 million viewers in the US and has TV deals all over the world. 



MJF said:


> Who should they have signed, in your opinion, who would move a needle?
> 
> Bare in mind, no wrestler truly moves the needle for the biggest wrestling company in existence.


Moving the needle in a smaller pond is much easier. Jericho and Moxley move the needle for AEW, whereas they meant shit in WWE.

Randy Orton, Brock Lesnar and Edge would have all moved the needle for AEW. CM Punk would have helped. Bryan Danielson and Rey Mysterio (with xertain



DOTL said:


> Same old crap: AEW sucks. No it doesn’t.


Get out of the thread. Everyone else going back and forth having a good discussion proves you wrong.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Dondada78 said:


> Eli Drake isn't a young talent @ 38. AEW problem early on is they wanted to be indyriffic. Instead of signing guys who could move the needle they decided to cater to the vocal minority who'll stick around no matter what instead of going after grown men who can portray a character and talk with a live mic in front of them the chose the ddt/pwg spot monkeys with no regard for storytelling & selling. I keep hearing all this talk about Punk, but Punk was NEVER great.


I didn't know that Eli Drake was 38 years old. But I agree their problem is AEW is an overbudgeted indy company that caters to the vocal MINORITY. Yeah ALL their storylines has WWE rejects and the EVPs in them. Its amazing how they have veterans like Chris Jericho and Jim Ross but they have no one who has a character, no good storylines, and they have nothing more than spot monkey matches. I guess we'll hear an interview in the future from Chris Jericho where he says: "Tony we call him money mark hes a dude hes a guy I didn't get that boss vibe that I got from Vince. He was giving me and Dean kinda free will to do whatever we wanted on tv."


----------



## r0scoe (Apr 1, 2014)

I'm good with the character and progression. Like someone said earlier, I feel las though anytime he's on screen someone is gonna get hurt bad and I love that


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Ozell Gray said:


> I didn't know that Eli Drake was 38 years old. But I agree their problem is AEW is an overbudgeted indy company that caters to the vocal MINORITY. Yeah ALL their storylines has WWE rejects and the EVPs in them. Its amazing how they have veterans like Chris Jericho and Jim Ross but they have no one who has a character, no good storylines, and they have nothing more than spot monkey matches. I guess we'll hear an interview in the future from Chris Jericho where he says: "Tony we call him money mark hes a dude hes a guy I didn't get that boss vibe that I got from Vince. He was giving me and Dean kinda free will to do whatever we wanted on tv."


Yeah, wanna make a bet? I am willing to wager right now that Jericho will never go back to WWE other than possibly a HOF appearance someday.

That vocal minority is about all that will be left in wrestling 3 years from now with the rate WWE is running fans off these last few years. Then it will be back to 1993 all over again between two companies that are fighting to get fans, not just one.


----------



## bonkertons (Aug 23, 2014)

The Wood said:


> He’s part of a system that gets at least 2 million viewers in the US and has TV deals all over the world.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I get that shitting on AEW is your gimmick or whatever but at least try to be a bit unbiased. Saying Moxley/Ambrose meant "shit" in WWE is just false, no matter how you look at it. At one point Ambrose was up there with Cena as one of the top merch sellers in the company, even when they were fighting his push. He was probably the most consistently over wrestler during the span of 3 or 4 years. Even if we're talking kayfabe credibility, IIRC Ambrose was the last World Champ before they went ahead with the brand split and added a 2nd belt. For a company with more talent than they know what to do with - even back then - that's pretty impressive and a good indicator of how important he was to them. 

Hell, even his NJPW run where he declared for the G1 was their highest viewed video on YouTube, beating out stuff that's been up for 4 or 5 years. That tells me a bunch of WWE fans thought he was important enough to hear that he popped up in another promotion and decided to check it out. 

Let's at least be a little fair and reasonable here.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

bonkertons said:


> I get that shitting on AEW is your gimmick or whatever but at least try to be a bit unbiased. Saying Moxley/Ambrose meant "shit" in WWE is just false, no matter how you look at it. At one point Ambrose was up there with Cena as one of the top merch sellers in the company, even when they were fighting his push. He was probably the most consistently over wrestler during the span of 3 or 4 years. Even if we're talking kayfabe credibility, IIRC Ambrose was the last World Champ before they went ahead with the brand split and added a 2nd belt. For a company with more talent than they know what to do with - even back then - that's pretty impressive and a good indicator of how important he was to them.
> 
> Hell, even his NJPW run where he declared for the G1 was their highest viewed video on YouTube, beating out stuff that's been up for 4 or 5 years. That tells me a bunch of WWE fans thought he was important enough to hear that he popped up in another promotion and decided to check it out.
> 
> Let's at least be a little fair and reasonable here.


Where were you when people were saying WWE treated him like shit? Sounds like they treated him pretty damn well when you explain it like this. I have a hard time feeling sorry for him now. Poor guy


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yeah, wanna make a bet? I am willing to wager right now that Jericho will never go back to WWE other than possibly a HOF appearance someday.
> 
> That vocal minority is about all that will be left in wrestling 3 years from now with the rate WWE is running fans off these last few years. Then it will be back to 1993 all over again between two companies that are fighting to get fans, not just one.


I agree with you. 

He has no reason to go back. He doesn't need the money like other legends. He has a comfy job in AEW where he gets to put over guys he feels are probably worth it and a commentary job just sitting there for him

Not to mention his music. 

HOF will be the only time Jericho is back in WWE and that's a night.


----------



## bonkertons (Aug 23, 2014)

Cult03 said:


> Where were you when people were saying WWE treated him like shit? Sounds like they treated him pretty damn well when you explain it like this. I have a hard time feeling sorry for him now. Poor guy


Did they treat him like shit? I don't recall hearing that.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

I don't think they treated him too bad in WWE. He was World Champ and had moments where he was really on fire. Being a part of a 3 man stable where all 3 are main eventers and future HOFers will limit your opportunities. Look at Scott Hall, that guy should have been WCW world champ somewhere in there but never got his run due to being in a stable with Nash & Hogan. Had Hall just made his epic debut without the others being added later on then im sure he would have been a WCW World Champ.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yeah, wanna make a bet? I am willing to wager right now that Jericho will never go back to WWE other than possibly a HOF appearance someday.


Wishful thinking my friend. WWE will come knocking with a big money offer to come back on a limited schedule and work a Mania match or two to finish his in ring career off in front of a massive 50,000+ crowd. They will then allow him to do what he wants (Within reason) and give him a Hall Of Fame induction.




MJF said:


> I agree with you.
> 
> He has no reason to go back. He doesn't need the money like other legends. He has a comfy job in AEW where he gets to put over guys he feels are probably worth it and a commentary job just sitting there for him
> 
> ...


All because he doesn't need the money doesn't mean he doesn't want it. WWE have always been cool with him doing his music stuff haven't they?



TKO Wrestling said:


> I don't think they treated him too bad in WWE. He was World Champ and had moments where he was really on fire. Being a part of a 3 man stable where all 3 are main eventers and future HOFers will limit your opportunities. Look at Scott Hall, that guy should have been WCW world champ somewhere in there but never got his run due to being in a stable with Nash & Hogan. Had Hall just made his epic debut without the others being added later on then im sure he would have been a WCW World Champ.


Unfortunately for Scott Hall he had a big alcohol and drug problem. Rumour was he was meant to take the belt from Sid in 2000 but that didn't occur.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yeah, wanna make a bet? I am willing to wager right now that Jericho will never go back to WWE other than possibly a HOF appearance someday.
> 
> That vocal minority is about all that will be left in wrestling 3 years from now with the rate WWE is running fans off these last few years. Then it will be back to 1993 all over again between two companies that are fighting to get fans, not just one.


And you'll lose that bet because the fact of the matter is Chris Jericho will fill up his pockets in AEW and then hes going to go back to WWE.

WWE will be alright its AEW whose gonna have to worry because the minority (the iwc) will tune out and turn on them just like they did ROH (and ROH still hasn't recovered) and then AEW will be big trouble. ROH is a perfect example of what will happen to AEW in the future the lowest common denominator (the iwc) will turn on AEW then AEW will end up like ROH, because they decided to appeal to the lowest common denominator (the iwc) and once they turn on AEW will be done because that was their fanbase. So once the iwc turns on AEW they'll end up like ROH and will never recover from that (see ROH right now). This is why it'll never become competition to WWE because it only appeals to a niche audience and this is why it won't succeed in the long run. WWE will be alright because they appeal to the casuals and mainstream. All they have to do is make their shows better and they'll get better tv ratings then they're getting now. AEW doesn't have that luxury because once the vocal minority turn on them (and they will) they're done and it'll be known as ROH 2.0. AEW is nothing more than a fad for the vocal minority until they get tired of AEW.


----------



## SuicideSlushPuppie (Jun 24, 2015)

Kinda ironic coming from a Moxley fan, considering Moxley is probably the most overrated talent in recent memory.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Ozell Gray said:


> And you'll lose that bet because the fact of the matter is Chris Jericho will fill up his pockets in AEW and then hes going to go back to WWE.
> 
> WWE will be alright its AEW whose gonna have to worry because the minority (the iwc) will tune out and turn on them just like they did ROH (and ROH still hasn't recovered) and then AEW will be big trouble. ROH is a perfect example of what will happen to AEW in the future the lowest common denominator (the iwc) will turn on AEW then AEW will end up like ROH, because they decided to appeal to the lowest common denominator (the iwc) and once they turn on AEW will be done because that was their fanbase. So once the iwc turns on AEW they'll end up like ROH and will never recover from that (see ROH right now). This is why it'll never become competition to WWE because it only appeals to a niche audience and this is why it won't succeed in the long run. WWE will be alright because they appeal to the casuals and mainstream. All they have to do is make their shows better and they'll get better tv ratings then they're getting now. AEW doesn't have that luxury because once the vocal minority turn on them (and they will) they're done and it'll be known as ROH 2.0. AEW is nothing more than a fad for the vocal minority until they get tired of AEW.


ROH was never a fraction as big as AEW is today even in the middle of the corona crap with half its roster. Not even remotely close to as big.

So, keep dreaming, its what you do, but the fact is WWE has shown NO SIGNS of stopping the loss of fans year after year. None. They lose 500,000 per year and that isn't inflated with the corona stuff, it is even larger this year but I am accounting for about 300k worth of fans loss to Corona.

It isn't that AEW is going to get as big as WWE was before, it is that WWE is continuing to shrink year by year and will be down to the mid 1s by this time next year. 

By 2025, when the TV rights deals are up, you will see the WWE scramble. Remember it is WWE, not AEW, that is having to cut staff today. One is managed for the long term and slow growth, already profitable, and staffed just right for their size.

Remember, one is a rookie, the other a season vet. You like to compare them like they are WCW but WCW had decades under its belt when it made Nitro...AEW is just starting.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

TKO Wrestling said:


> ROH was never a fraction as big as AEW is today even in the middle of the corona crap with half its roster. Not even remotely close to as big.
> 
> So, keep dreaming, its what you do, but the fact is WWE has shown NO SIGNS of stopping the loss of fans year after year. None. They lose 500,000 per year and that isn't inflated with the corona stuff, it is even larger this year but I am accounting for about 300k worth of fans loss to Corona.
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter if ROH wasn't a fraction of what AEW is today my point still stands it'll end up like ROH (in terrible shape because their smark fanbase turned on them). AEW will meet the same fate as ROH whether you like it or want to admit it or not. ROH wasn't as big as AEW because they were never on national tv but it changes none of the facts of what I said.

And AEW has SHOWN NO SIGNS of stopping their viewership from bleeding because they're bleeding viewers WORSE than WWE could ever imagine or hope to so you keep dreaming buddy. WWE are mainstream so all they have to do is put on better shows and their tv ratings would skyrocket. AEW is niche and it'll NEVER grow, get mainstream, or get close to WWE EVER. And AEW has already lost 50% of their audience so thats 700k people that they've lost already within 6 months.

WWE won't go down that far and if they do then AEW will definitely get way lower then what they're getting right now as well. And AEW will tank in to the mid or early 300k viewers range by next year or even later this year.

WWE won't be scrambling for anything it'll be AEW that will be scrambling and struggling to stay alive. WWE has been cutting staff every year and nothing happens to the company. The company just continues to make more money every year. WWE are cutting staff and wrestlers as cost cutting which EVERY big business does. 


🤣 AEW aren't staffed for long term and theres 0 growth going forward. There will only be negative growth and Tony Khan NEVER said that AEW were profitable so I don't know how you can make that outrageous claim without proof.

WCW didn't have decades before it launched Nitro that was Jim Crockett promotions NOT WCW. People knew the former for not the latter because the former was around for decades while the former had started in 1988 when Ted Turner bought Jim Crockett Promotions. So you're just flat out wrong on this, and Nitro beat Raw in its 4th episode while Raw was already established and Dynamite has come no where near close to beating Raw let alone Smackdown in the ratings. Nitro beat Raw because it was a better show and the casuals tuned into watch it, meanwhile Dynamite hasn't done that and won't ever do it because its show isn't good and they have 0 casuals watching. AEW appeals to the lowest common denominator (the iwc), which means they have 0 chance for growth and thats going to bite them long term because smarks will turn on them and it'll end up like ROH (struggling to survive) because AEW was never anything other then a fad. AEW will only be known as a fad because thats all it is. WWE will be fine its AEW that you need to be worrying about, and not to mention WWE makes more revenue and profits then AEW ever will and can ever dream of.


----------



## I'mTheGreatest (Aug 3, 2019)

Ive always loved Harper just wished he was more dark! His attire is also awful as others mentioned.


----------



## Dondada78 (Jun 10, 2019)

Ozell Gray said:


> And you'll lose that bet because the fact of the matter is Chris Jericho will fill up his pockets in AEW and then hes going to go back to WWE.
> 
> WWE will be alright its AEW whose gonna have to worry because the minority (the iwc) will tune out and turn on them just like they did ROH (and ROH still hasn't recovered) and then AEW will be big trouble. ROH is a perfect example of what will happen to AEW in the future the lowest common denominator (the iwc) will turn on AEW then AEW will end up like ROH, because they decided to appeal to the lowest common denominator (the iwc) and once they turn on AEW will be done because that was their fanbase. So once the iwc turns on AEW they'll end up like ROH and will never recover from that (see ROH right now). This is why it'll never become competition to WWE because it only appeals to a niche audience and this is why it won't succeed in the long run. WWE will be alright because they appeal to the casuals and mainstream. All they have to do is make their shows better and they'll get better tv ratings then they're getting now. AEW doesn't have that luxury because once the vocal minority turn on them (and they will) they're done and it'll be known as ROH 2.0. AEW is nothing more than a fad for the vocal minority until they get tired of AEW.


That's my point exactly


----------



## TMTT (Nov 21, 2016)

Far from terrible, he has talent, give him more time.


----------



## link85 (Nov 1, 2015)

I think the Brodie Lee character is interesting. The segments have made me laugh.


----------



## Freelancer (Aug 24, 2010)

I wouldn't say he's terrible, I'd give him a little more time.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Odds on him firing one of his minions next week must be pretty high


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Ozell Gray said:


> It doesn't matter if ROH wasn't a fraction of what AEW is today my point still stands it'll end up like ROH (in terrible shape because their smark fanbase turned on them). AEW will meet the same fate as ROH whether you like it or want to admit it or not. ROH wasn't as big as AEW because they were never on national tv but it changes none of the facts of what I said.
> 
> And AEW has SHOWN NO SIGNS of stopping their viewership from bleeding because they're bleeding viewers WORSE than WWE could ever imagine or hope to so you keep dreaming buddy. WWE are mainstream so all they have to do is put on better shows and their tv ratings would skyrocket. AEW is niche and it'll NEVER grow, get mainstream, or get close to WWE EVER. And AEW has already lost 50% of their audience so thats 700k people that they've lost already within 6 months.
> 
> ...













Since 2015 they have gone down annually, they are down 700k viewers from this time last year, 1.4 million from 2 years ago. Their rating is down below 1.5 now by the way, it has continued to drop. So, yeah, they have alot to worry about. 

But don't let FACTS get in the way of your poorly thought out opinion. Now, run along and go play with your friends in the WWE forum, this page is for AEW fans.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

TKO Wrestling said:


> View attachment 85067
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To make a fair assessment on these numbers you need streaming figures also. WWE might get 2 million people a week tuning in for RAW but might have another million watching via a streaming service. WWE has a fair few options to watch online which might explain their ratings dropping since streaming has only started getting really popular within the past 5 years.

I think you'll find most people aged 12-40 are very rarely turning the TV on these days. I'm late twenties and none of my friends watch TV anymore unless it's live sport and even that is cheaper to stream now. When it's off season for football I go months without the TV on. I pay 40 dollars a month for 4 streaming services and that is more than enough content for me.

Only people regularly watching TV in 2020 are middle aged or old people. I don't understand your panic stations over WWE's TV ratings dropping.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Ozell Gray said:


> And you'll lose that bet because the fact of the matter is Chris Jericho will fill up his pockets in AEW and then hes going to go back to WWE.
> 
> WWE will be alright its AEW whose gonna have to worry because the minority (the iwc) will tune out and turn on them just like they did ROH (and ROH still hasn't recovered) and then AEW will be big trouble. ROH is a perfect example of what will happen to AEW in the future the lowest common denominator (the iwc) will turn on AEW then AEW will end up like ROH, because they decided to appeal to the lowest common denominator (the iwc) and once they turn on AEW will be done because that was their fanbase. So once the iwc turns on AEW they'll end up like ROH and will never recover from that (see ROH right now). This is why it'll never become competition to WWE because it only appeals to a niche audience and this is why it won't succeed in the long run. WWE will be alright because they appeal to the casuals and mainstream. All they have to do is make their shows better and they'll get better tv ratings then they're getting now. AEW doesn't have that luxury because once the vocal minority turn on them (and they will) they're done and it'll be known as ROH 2.0. AEW is nothing more than a fad for the vocal minority until they get tired of AEW.


wow that was a hard read.

were you just tapping at your keyboard over and over?


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

TKO Wrestling said:


> View attachment 85067
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did I say they weren't losing viewers or did I did I say that they can increase their tv ratings if they put on better shows? Plus l ike I said WWE can increase tv ratings by putting on good shows because they're a mainstream company.

And Dynamite has dropped from 1.4 million to 683,000 viewers which means they're down 717,000 viewers just in 6 months. But hey DON'T LET FACTS get in the way of your poorly thought out opinion though. So go run along with your AEW fanboys who are going to agree with your stupidity in this AEW forum.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Danielallen1410 said:


> wow that was a hard read.
> 
> were you just tapping at your keyboard over and over?


Wow your comment is hard for me to read right now. Did you just type just to respond on your keyboard?


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

I want to see him in actual matches. He's a veteran I think he should be done with squash matches. He actually has some great offense. I feel like putting him in squash matches this late in his career is pointless. It would be like putting Randy Orton in a squash match. You don't have to build up Brodie Lee we all know what he can do.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

I would rather his finishing move wasn’t a clothesline


----------



## kingfrass44 (Sep 19, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> To make a fair assessment on these numbers you need streaming figures also. WWE might get 2 million people a week tuning in for RAW but might have another million watching via a streaming service. WWE has a fair few options to watch online which might explain their ratings dropping since streaming has only started getting really popular within the past 5 years.
> 
> I think you'll find most people aged 12-40 are very rarely turning the TV on these days. I'm late twenties and none of my friends watch TV anymore unless it's live sport and even that is cheaper to stream now. When it's off season for football I go months without the TV on. I pay 40 dollars a month for 4 streaming services and that is more than enough content for me.
> 
> Only people regularly watching TV in 2020 are middle aged or old people. I don't understand your panic stations over WWE's TV ratings dropping.


numbers streaming Not great
you wrong
Stop bringing excuses
Your friend is not a measure


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Scrap the dork order.


----------



## dan the marino (Oct 22, 2006)

Brodie Lee has more talent in his big thumb than OP has in his entire cuck body. I'm glad you made this nonsensical thread so I could block your horrid opinions.


----------

