# CM Punk Return is a complete and utter Flop!



## Smark1995 (Sep 18, 2020)

Seriously, it's been 2 months since he debuted and what has he done during this time?
All he did was go out and read dull and borring promos about how awesome AEW is and what awesome fans they have; he squashed no-name low cards jobbers on a second-rate show that no one watches or just sat blankly and commented the show. Seriously? Did they bring Punk back just to be a commentator or what? Why didn't he take part in any serious feud for 2 full months? they just don't know what to do with him at all!
Imagine what it would be like if Punk returned to the WWE and all he did was read empty promos about how he liked the new WWE and how he loves the fans, after which he would had a matches with the likes of Ricochet, Cedric Alexander, Dolph Ziggler and Angel Garza and then he would be a commentator on RAW? AEW fans would rip it apart! Punk's return is the biggest disappointment in wrestling in the last 6 years by a mille!
Seriously, what's next? He will start having matches on Dark and Elavation because why the fuck not right?


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## MrMeeseeks (Aug 6, 2020)

dear god those were certainly words that came right out of your ass


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Not at all. It's not as amazing as it maybe could've been, but certainly not a flop. Great promos and matches consistently, even with a pretty basic character at this point and no story. He's done well so far.


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## justin waynes (Feb 8, 2020)

I knew its only a matter of time till the fickle fan start lashing cm punk. Fans are clueless


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

I actually agree with you OP. I love Punk, was keen to see what he could do right away but AEW has given me zero reason to care.


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## Victor86 (Jan 7, 2020)

Well it was expected. Punks biggest asset was being able to call out backstage bs politics and in AEW he can’t do that as it would essentially burry the entire show .

And he can’t just go out in AEW and talk direct crap about wwe so what does he have left besides that? Ring skills? Others can do it just as well or better. Outside of wrestling accomplishments? If you can call being the worst ufc fighter of all time an accomplishment… and he isn’t a freak of nature like Brock or even someone like Batista or Goldberg where he looks like a big deal just by standing in the middle of the ring.

He also can’t talk down on the younger guys becuase when he was younger he was ripping the older guys up for taking space and being paid more, I remember him making a huge deal that Taker got paid more for their WM match when punk did most of the ring work- and now it’s punk that’s being carried by the younger guys while getting paid a lot more than them..

So even as far as mic work goes his options are limited due to what he used to say in the past.

I am fully expecting him to keep disappointing but I am also glad becuase people kept saying how huge of a star he is and how in AEW he will take stuff to the next level


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## p862011 (Jan 6, 2011)

i agree with OP i am a huge cm punk fan he was my favorite wrestler for awhile all the way back to his roh days but this just feels like phil brooks in wrestling gear who is just happy to be there not someone who is a game changing acquisition where is the character work,the epic promos but instead he is wrestling lower card talent

imagine if when edge returned after 9 years away he just started wrestling guys like ziggler and jinder mahal while just smiling and shaking fans hands


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Jeez... Give it time. 

If he was booked like Goldberg, Lesnar and The Undertaker have been during WM season or at big 4 shows. You just end up in a situation where the part timer becomes the star. As it they have a world class performer with name recognition. It will have more impact once they pull the trigger on a storyline or character development. 

Meanwhile Darby, Sammy and Hangman are being pushed as or towards being legit headliners.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Victor86 said:


> Well it was expected. Punks biggest asset was being able to call out backstage bs politics and in AEW he can’t do that as it would essentially burry the entire show .


Punk's biggest asset is his microphone ability and the vitriol he can spew. Pissed off Punk is what people want it doesn't necessarily have to be related to backstage stuff or authority injustices although I would agree that he was probably at his best in WWE doing that. He is also a much better heel than a face, I understand he needed to debut as a face but he should be close to turning heel now.






Look at the heat he gets here by just being an absolute cunt and antagonising people. That's the CM Punk you want and imagine it with an AEW audience. Imagine the hatred he would get if he said he fleeced Tony and only came back for the money and he'll take it easy because he doesn't give a fuck?


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## CovidFan (Aug 19, 2020)

I'm not satisfied with it. And the fans who say "just wait" or "LONG TERM STORYTELLING", no. I'm not down with long term storytelling that's boring the shit out of me. That's an excuse that persists with the AEW fans (even itt) that are just satisfied with anything put out by them. Punk's character atm is shit and long term storytelling isn't redeemable if it isn't compelling.


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

I was against his signing, but actually have dug his handling and booking so far. It's a slow burn, but the guy has been gone for seven years so it makes sense kayfabe that he'd want to ease in rather than being dropped into the title scene. I like the happy warrior Punk as well, he can't be bitter pissed off Punk because why would that guy have even came back?


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## P Thriller (Jan 6, 2016)

They have managed to get me to lose interest in him way faster than I thought possible. His ratings on each Rampage also go down every single week which tells me I'm not the only one losing interest in this return.

I hate to play this card, but in this case I think it's true. If WWE booked CM Punk's return this exact same way, all the people defending it right now would be trashing it. Some of that is fine, considering AEW has built up more trust at this point. But man, AEW fans give them so much more leeway than they do WWE


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

CovidFan said:


> I'm not satisfied with it. And the fans who say "just wait" or "LONG TERM STORYTELLING", no. I'm not down with long term storytelling that's boring the shit out of me. That's an excuse that persists with the AEW fans (even itt) that are just satisfied with anything put out by them. Punk's character atm is shit and long term storytelling isn't redeemable if it isn't compelling.


I remember when Kenny won the belt and was doing the belt collector thing the guys here kept saying "BE PATIENT GUYS! THIS WILL BE THE BIGGEST ANGLE IN WRESTLING!" and it never really became much of anything.


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## the_hound (Jun 14, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Punk's biggest asset is his microphone ability and the vitriol he can spew. Pissed off Punk is what people want it doesn't necessarily have to be related to backstage stuff or authority injustices although I would agree that he was probably at his best in WWE doing that. He is also a much better heel than a face, I understand he needed to debut as a face but he should be close to turning heel now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i don't recall punk being in thee wwe after his roh stint


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## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

the_hound said:


> i don't recall punk being in thee wwe after his roh stint


Yeah neither can I. He left pro wrestling in 2005 right?


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## the_hound (Jun 14, 2016)

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Yeah neither can I. He left pro wrestling in 2005 right?


i believe so, then he trained hard for mma, believe he got injured in training took a hissy fit and cried on a podcast, then went back to mma training only to get humiliated by a wet paper bag and a kid the size dominc mysterio


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## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

He got over cutting shoot promos against the WWE machine in a different era. In this new era, in this company, he's more New York than anyone else on that roster.


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## The One (Jul 16, 2012)

Don't act like you wasn't the one begging him to come back. You can't say shit now.


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## .christopher. (Jan 14, 2014)

It has been bad. Same as Bryan's run. The buzz both brought? Already gone.

I don't care for Edge, and can't stand the WWE, but compare his return to Punk's. It's night and day. Edge came back and immediately went into a blood feud with a star. That's how you book big stars making a comeback.

Same with Shawn Michaels back in 2002. He came back to WWEs biggest angle at the time - the nWo flop - and then immediately went into a blood feud with a star.

Punk's return is a joke so far.


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Not a complete flop because Punks ability in the ring and on the mic are still there but he’s being used very poorly. If you were to tell a wrestling fan that CM Punk would return to wrestling but have no feuds and only wrestle at 10 pm on a Friday night, they wouldn’t believe you.


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## Fergal (Apr 29, 2021)

Say what you want about WWE but they can make returning stars look like huge deal .
Punk would have been much better coming back to WWE imagine the feuds we could have had Punk vs Reigns,Punk vs Rollins or even Punk vs Lesnar 2 those matches are infinite times more interesting than what he is doing in AEW.


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Some of the responses are 100% unsurprising here.

I've enjoyed him so far, it seems like he's trying to get the rust off himself, especially in the ring with some of the matches he's had, and so far is looking better in that regard the more he actually does wrestle. 

I'm not gonna say he's been shit, for me he hasn't been close to bad, but I am at the point where I'd be happier if he did start actually having some more serious feuds. Feel like there should have been more to the Team Taz stuff. 

If we're going with like grades or something I'd say like a B+ or something.


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## Victor86 (Jan 7, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Punk's biggest asset is his microphone ability and the vitriol he can spew. Pissed off Punk is what people want it doesn't necessarily have to be related to backstage stuff or authority injustices although I would agree that he was probably at his best in WWE doing that. He is also a much better heel than a face, I understand he needed to debut as a face but he should be close to turning heel now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Punks biggest feuds and most memorable promo wars were against Cena, HHH and Rock- and all of them he was The Voice of the Voiceless character even when a heel .

Without the WWE machine to fight against as well as the machines top chosen roided stars for him to call them out , punk doesn’t really have any fuel to do anything . His feud with Bryan back then as well as his first feud with Darby lacked any heat and the reason his feud with Cena was so great was that they were the polar opposites- they were the same age and height and everything else was different - punk made his name in the indies while Cena was a wwe home grown star and this had privileged booking; punk was natural and straigh edge while Cena was the perfect superhero on roids look; punk was all covered in colorful tattoos Cena was all clean cut like a perfect corporate face.

Without contrasting characters for him to call out , his mic skills can’t do anything on their own on top of the fact that punk does everything that he was fighting against before : Taking spotlight from the younger guys ? Check. Getting carried in his matches while getting paid a lot more ? Check; working part time collecting big checks while others who are more “deserving “ gets shafted? Check; Having the machine behind him only due to his name alone ? Check; etc etc.

His return was always going to flop due to people expecting stuff from him that he simply can’t deliver at this stage and unless he completely revamps himself as some corporate heel who purposely takes the spotlight for himself and just want to be The Guy no matter the cost - his face character will just never work


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## MrMeeseeks (Aug 6, 2020)

Fergal said:


> Say what you want about WWE but they can make returning stars look like huge deal .
> Punk would have been much better coming back to WWE imagine the feuds we could have had Punk vs Reigns,Punk vs Rollins or even Punk vs Lesnar 2 those matches are infinite times more interesting than what he is doing in AEW.


he was out for 7 years did you rerally expect him to come back and be thrown right into the world title scene? seriously some of you fans are braindead


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

MrMeeseeks said:


> he was out for 7 years did you rerally expect him to come back and be thrown right into the world title scene? seriously some of you fans are braindead


Yeah, it would be ridiculous for AEW to throw someone in a title scene after being away from wrestling for so long...


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

La Parka said:


> Yeah, it would be ridiculous for AEW to throw someone in a title scene after being away from wrestling for so long...
> View attachment 110313


Keep in mind Christian also beat Kenny on that show, lol.


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## MEMS (Jun 18, 2013)

He's back to wrestle and that's exactly what he's doing. Most AEW fans just enjoy pro wrestling. He hasn't squashed anyone. His matches keep getting better. His return hasn't been anything even close to a flop. 

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Keep in mind Christian also beat Kenny on that show, lol.


CM Punk just ain’t the name that Christian is.


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## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

Y'all really going to make me defend the use of CM Punk after I wasn't the one that was overly hyped for his return to wrestling. Over expectations.

The difference between CM Punk and Edge is that CM Punk chose to leave the business. Edge was forced to retire. Edge trained to get back in the ring before he returned (probably with Christian) while CM Punk returned and then worked to get back in shape, which Punk clearly still has some endurance to work on as he shakes off the rust. Punk clearly just wants to get some matches under his belt before he gets in to a deep feud.

As for Christian, he wasn't away from the ring as long as CM Punk had been and he wasn't "burnt out" of the business either. Both he and Edge were very much still involved in some way even when they weren't wrestling. Besides, Christians been back in the ring this whole year basically. He was in the Royal Rumble match in January and has been in AEW since March.

Lets not lose sight that it wasn't long ago that CM Punk wasn't interested in returning to wrestling. Lets slow down with the guy....

For 7 years fans have wanted CM Punk back. Turning him heel right now would be dumb.


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## CaféDeChampion (Sep 27, 2021)

I think some people lose sight of who CM Punk is. This is basically the biggest name AEW could get, this is an actual star that should totally change the game and it shows AEW's biggest flaw.

They are incapable of spicing up their shows and delivering moments. They are so focus on the larger picture, they forget they also have to deliver something hype right now to get people involved.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Fearless said:


> Y'all really going to make me defend the use of CM Punk after I wasn't the one that was overly hyped for his return to wrestling. Over expectations.
> 
> The difference between CM Punk and Edge is that CM Punk chose to leave the business. Edge was forced to retire. Edge trained to get back in the ring before he returned (probably with Christian) while CM Punk returned and then worked to get back in shape, which Punk clearly still has some endurance to work on as he shakes off the rust. Punk clearly just wants to get some matches under his belt before he gets in to a deep feud.
> 
> ...


Christian had worked 2 matches in 6 years before returning to AEW and beating Kenny Omega. One was a 1 minute match against Orton and one was a rumble.

It's pretty much the same thing.


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Bullshit thread.


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## TheGreatBanana (Jul 7, 2012)

His return has been a total waste and he has been super boring. His return didn’t increased any viewership. Rampage consistently went down in viewership since his return.

If Punk returned to WWE he would’ve immediately be put into a long program against Reigns and treated as a main eventer again. Punk vs Reigns is a big money match. Punk’s return would’ve had more meaning and generated more business.

In AEW he fought no named guys on Rampage. No one gives a shit about that. Punk has spent 3 weeks on commentary on Dynamite. Punk in no way should be doing commentary. Khan has reduced two top tier WWE maineventers to Punk doing commentary and Bryan doing YouTube preshow matches. Talk about devaluing your two biggest commodities.


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## THE_OD (Nov 21, 2016)

I thought that the Darby match was just a stepping stone on his way to bigger things. But on the contrary hes actually moved down the card.

I have no idea what the hell they are doing.
Punk is arguably their biggest star, was ultra over upon his return, and they should strike while the iron is hot.

Maybe he wants to work with up and commers, maybe its a storyline, maybe he's easing into it. Doesnt matter. At the end of a day this is a business and Tony is wasting his hottest commodity.


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## ElTerrible (Feb 8, 2004)

Meanwhile Punk has silently picked up four wins and is now 4-0. Give it another few weeks, he´ll be 10-0 and when Bryan demands his world title shot vs. Hangman/Omega, I sense a reminder of the moniker Best In The World and who has the superior record.


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

ElTerrible said:


> Meanwhile Punk has silently picked up four wins and is now 4-0. Give it another few weeks, he´ll be 10-0 and when Bryan demands his world title shot vs. Hangman/Omega, I sense a reminder of the moniker Best In The World and who has the superior record.


Well Im not sure if Punk should face Bryan just now. This will really show how bad Punk is in the ring.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Smark1995 said:


> Seriously, what's next?


This is what is next.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

.christopher. said:


> It has been bad. Same as Bryan's run. The buzz both brought? Already gone.
> 
> I don't care for Edge, and can't stand the WWE, but compare his return to Punk's. It's night and day. Edge came back and immediately went into a blood feud with a star. That's how you book big stars making a comeback.
> 
> ...


Problem is they bring in Punk to do an angle right off the bat with Darby then it seems instead of moving up, he's moving lower with guys like Sydal. 

Bryan also kind of is in the same boat dealing with guys who are mostly job guys ala Fisher.

AEW tends to give too much time to wrestlers who should be kept in dark not on the two main shows, although Rampage is turning into elevation basically.


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## CRCC (Sep 25, 2017)

Him not going straight for the title is good, I hate that kind of booking.

Debuting against Darby was also pretty good. 

The problem was that nothing came out of it and he is regressing in the card. He is in no serious feud, the brief feud he had with team Taz seems to be done (he could have a great program with Starks) and is wrestling nobodies with 0 heat.


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## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

I am no punk fan, but I have enjoyed his time in AEW. He is clearly calling his own shots, his matches have actually been better than I anticipated and his future is bright. My anticipation is building and am looking forward to the pay off.


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## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

Chan Hung said:


> Problem is they bring in Punk to do an angle right off the bat with Darby then it seems instead of moving up, he's moving lower with guys like Sydal.
> 
> Bryan also kind of is in the same boat dealing with guys who are mostly job guys ala Fisher.
> 
> AEW tends to give too much time to wrestlers who should be kept in dark not on the two main shows, although Rampage is turning into elevation basically.


But then people complain there are no new stars in wrestling.


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## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

La Parka said:


> Yeah, it would be ridiculous for AEW to throw someone in a title scene after being away from wrestling for so long...
> View attachment 110313


Dude, this match occurred 5 MONTHS after Christian Cage returned to wrestling full-time after retiring for mostly 7 years.

Seriously, let's revisit this thread around this time next year.

I'm sure those who voted 'No' will most likely be eating their words once CM Punk inevitably feuds with other main-eventers in the world championship scene.

It is Adam Page's time to shine on top for now.

Let Punk continue to polish himself more in the ring, and work his way up the card. He's been anything, but a "flop."


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## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

Dr. Middy said:


> Some of the responses are 100% unsurprising here.
> 
> I've enjoyed him so far, it seems like he's trying to get the rust off himself, especially in the ring with some of the matches he's had, and so far is looking better in that regard the more he actually does wrestle.
> 
> ...


Mate, you can’t apply common sense to a WF thread…


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, this match occurred 5 MONTHS after Christian Cage returned to wrestling full-time after retiring for mostly 7 years.
> 
> Seriously, let's revisit this thread around this time next year.
> 
> ...


CM Punk is 42 years old, how long do you think he’s going to be sticking around? In a years time he may be at the tail end of his time with the company. His mystic is dying and the ratings of rampage show that. I don’t think he needed to be world champion in his first month but having him have a feud with a story and some heat would’ve been much better. Imagine Punk and Starks (if Starks and team taz weren’t complete jokes who have already lost to everyone) having a feud with the two going back and forth on the mic.

Instead, Punk comes out and cuts the same promo every week and works with a job guy that everyone knows the result of when he’s not commenting on other people’s matches.


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## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

He is in the right position doing the right thing. AEW have not brought in talent to immediately put them in a main event feud, win and get the title with little to no delay. One thing we must do is separate WWE-style booking from AEW-style booking.


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## chronoxiong (Apr 1, 2005)

You can't expect Punk to shoot right up to the top and be da Man of AEW. This is the original AEW guy's time. Let them get theirs. I think Punk will have his time eventually. Hopefully because he's aging now. Same for Bryan Danielson. You didnt see Bret Hart be World Champ when he first arrived to WCW. He had to work to start from the bottom and work his way up to the top feuds.


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## SAMCRO (Jul 10, 2006)

chronoxiong said:


> You can't expect Punk to shoot right up to the top and be da Man of AEW. This is the original AEW guy's time. Let them get theirs. I think Punk will have his time eventually. Hopefully because he's aging now. Same for Bryan Danielson. You didnt see Bret Hart be World Champ when he first arrived to WCW. He had to work to start from the bottom and work his way up to the top feuds.


Lol please don't talk about Bret's WCW booking as if it was good or well done lol, that was a fucking disaster, Bret himself will tell you he was miserable there and his booking was awful.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

DaveRA said:


> But then people complain there are no new stars in wrestling.


It doesn't have to be one or the other. Look at ECW for example, they'd bring in big stars like The Steiners, Terry Funk, Sid etc but they still managed to build up young guys also.


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## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Tony khan has to take all the blame, the big issue is that in attempt of a ratings boost, khan has needlessly over exposed punk (much like sting) by throwing him into matches with acts that nobody cares about or takes seriously, doing pointless promos and doing commentary and the thing is it hasn't even done much for aew's ratings short term but long term it could have consequences because the initial intrigue and bump in ratings from curious fans that didn't really follow aew before will not continue to watch aew as the novelty of punk in wrestling and his star power has already quickly eroded.


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## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Fergal said:


> Say what you want about WWE but they can make returning stars look like huge deal .
> Punk would have been much better coming back to WWE imagine the feuds we could have had Punk vs Reigns,Punk vs Rollins or even Punk vs Lesnar 2 those matches are infinite times more interesting than what he is doing in AEW.


I sought of agree but in this case wwe would have likely just fed him straight away to reigns because vince is fixated on trying re-write history that reigns is the best ever to have step foot in wrestling.


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## WrestleFAQ (May 26, 2020)

Yep. They blew it.

Remember when Kurt Angle debuted in TNA and immediately went into a major feud with Samoa Joe? Remember how Meltzer and the smarks said that was a mistake, and they should have built up to it over months? And then the Angle/Joe stuff went on to do the biggest numbers TNA's ever done, proving Meltzer and the Meltzettes to be buffoons?

Well, AEW has taken that wrong approach with Punk and (to a lesser extent) Bryan, and it's been a total dud so far.

Instead of striking while the iron was hot and going with something big, like TNA did with Angle, they've completely killed all of their momentum. Now they're just a couple of guys floating aimlessly, wrestling boring matches against scrubs like Matt Sydal and Bobby Fish, drawing subpar ratings. Momentum going, going, gone . . .

Just a total screw up on AEW's part. There's no excusing it.


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## kingfunkel (Aug 17, 2011)

Once Punk finds his legs and is able to suck the fans in. Then he'll make a heel turn and suddenly be thrilling. Punk is a great baby face but he's an even better heel. 

At the minute it feels like Punk is smelling his roses and getting rid of the rust. In ring rust and promo rust. Hasn't been in front of a live audience for nearly a decade,


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## The_Great_One21 (Feb 22, 2012)

Yip. Absolute joke.

You get the hottest star you possibly could. And they book him to commentate more than he wrestles and when he does wrestle it’s on the B show against mid carders.

seriously, whats he doing since the Darby thing? Sort of feuding with team taz. Kind of. 
shambles. Zero direction. The darby feud is fine. After that he should have had a clear path to move up. Instead, he’s wrestling matt sydal on rampage.

fucking laughable booking


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## ShadowCounter (Sep 1, 2016)

La Parka said:


> CM Punk is 42 years old, how long do you think he’s going to be sticking around?


Jericho's 50, so potentially at least 8 years. It's not like he has a heavy schedule. It's literally 1 day a week. 2 if there is a ppv.

So many bookers here that think they know better yet TK is the only guy in 20 years to pull this close to WWE. This is Miro all over again. A year from now when Punk is running on all cylinders and challenging for or has the AEW title you same guys will be posting about how you knew Punk was gonna be the "best in the world" all along. Hilarious.


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## The_Great_One21 (Feb 22, 2012)

ShadowCounter said:


> Jericho's 50, so potentially at least 8 years. It's not like he has a heavy schedule. It's literally 1 day a week. 2 if there is a ppv.
> 
> So many bookers here that think they know better yet TK is the only guy in 20 years to pull this close to WWE. This is Miro all over again. A year from now when Punk is running on all cylinders and challenging for or has the AEW title you same guys will be posting about how you knew Punk was gonna be the "best in the world" all along. Hilarious.


Sorry… you’re trying to praise it being “Miro all over again”?

It’s supposed to be a good thing they utterly fucked up CMFUCKINGPUNK return because a year from now he’ll be ok? Great. I’m sure the exact same audience that watch it now will enjoy that. Whilst the people who they had the chance to add to the viewership won’t give a shit because they won’t be watching.
In fact, they already aren’t watching because they managed to somehow fuck it up so bad they’ve lost viewers since Punk returned


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Punk's biggest asset is his microphone ability and the vitriol he can spew. Pissed off Punk is what people want it doesn't necessarily have to be related to backstage stuff or authority injustices although I would agree that he was probably at his best in WWE doing that. He is also a much better heel than a face, I understand he needed to debut as a face but he should be close to turning heel now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I mean he already is giving interviews irl calling out AEW for their shit. I really can't see him staying there long.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

the_flock said:


> I mean he already is giving interviews irl calling out AEW for their shit. I really can't see him staying there long.


Has he? I haven't seen those yet.


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

ShadowCounter said:


> Jericho's 50, so potentially at least 8 years. It's not like he has a heavy schedule. It's literally 1 day a week. 2 if there is a ppv.
> 
> So many bookers here that think they know better yet TK is the only guy in 20 years to pull this close to WWE. This is Miro all over again. A year from now when Punk is running on all cylinders and challenging for or has the AEW title you same guys will be posting about how you knew Punk was gonna be the "best in the world" all along. Hilarious.


He's not the only guy in 20 years, that's a myth created by the AEW smarks. 

Miro hasn't been great, it's just distorted by how utterly shit his best man gimmick was. He hasn't drawn a dime. 

Punk won't be running on all cylinders, he's never been a huge draw.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

ShadowCounter said:


> Jericho's 50, so potentially at least 8 years. It's not like he has a heavy schedule. It's literally 1 day a week. 2 if there is a ppv.
> 
> So many bookers here that think they know better yet TK is the only guy in 20 years to pull this close to WWE. This is Miro all over again. A year from now when Punk is running on all cylinders and challenging for or has the AEW title you same guys will be posting about how you knew Punk was gonna be the "best in the world" all along. Hilarious.


Do you really want to see 50 year old CM Punk running around? I don't think even Punk wants to see that to be honest. Realistically I'd say 2-3 years of Punk left as an active in ring competitor and then Tony will probably keep him on as a colour commentator.

In regards to Tony being a great booker because he's got close to Vince, a few things to unpack here:

1. He isn't close to Vince. He is a distant second in this wrestling war and is doing under half of what WWE does. 

2. The only reason he's been able to pull into second is because of money. Take me for example, I'm an independent booker and promoter if someone came along and gave me a hundred million dollars I could probably do better than Tony, I've said before I think most people here probably could. He has his million person a week audience because there are a million people out there who are into the guys he pays money to. He hasn't built the audience (He's actually lost 500k of them), there aren't any great storylines you can point to and say "This really grew the rating".

The trend with AEW tends to be TK spends millions on a popular talent, the popular talent debuts to a 1.2 - 1.3 rating, the audience sticks around for a couple weeks, realises that said popular talent isn't doing anything of note and then leaves. Proof is in the pudding really, next PPV is going to be Hangman Vs Omega with Hangman over when if Tony was a businessman and a good promoter it'd be Bryan over Omega. Dudes a mark I'm sorry to say.

3. Tony didn't really do anything to reinvent Miro it's pretty much the same gimmick he did in WWE. Big angry man destroys other grown men.


----------



## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

Whether you call his time as a success or a flop, stop blaming khan…punk is calling his own shots…that’s obvious


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

You're all just so impatient lmao.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

chronoxiong said:


> You can't expect Punk to shoot right up to the top and be da Man of AEW. This is the original AEW guy's time. Let them get theirs. I think Punk will have his time eventually. Hopefully because he's aging now. Same for Bryan Danielson. You didnt see Bret Hart be World Champ when he first arrived to WCW. He had to work to start from the bottom and work his way up to the top feuds.


Just for comparison sake, here are Bret Hart's first five televised matches in WCW:

Match #1 Vs Ric Flair (PPV Semi Main Event)

Match #2 Vs Brian Adams (Won in four minutes) (Semi Main Event Nitro)

Match #3 Vs Curt Hennig (PPV Match)

Match #4 Vs Kevin Nash & Randy Savage with Sting (TV Main Event)

Match #5 Vs Randy Savage (PPV Semi Main Event)

Compare it to CM Punk in AEW:

Match #1 Vs Darby Allin (PPV Semi Main Event)

Match #2 Vs Powerhouse Hobbs ( TV Opener)

Match #3 Vs Daniel Garcia (TV Opener)

Match #4 Vs Matt Sydal (TV Opener)

---

Keep in mind that Bret's run has been criticised as well with many saying he instantly should've been going after Hogan...




DaveRA said:


> Whether you call his time as a success or a flop, stop blaming khan…punk is calling his own shots…that’s obvious


Tony claims everything goes through him first therefore the blame is on him and on Punk if he's coming up with this.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Why do people keep pretending the only entertaining thing he could do is go for the world title. It's okay to acknowledge his return has been meh. There's no need to lie as if anybody was sitting here hoping Punk would return just to be wrestling random matches against nobodies post Darby. Just give him a legit story, not a "well it's AEW let me assume there's some great hidden story"


----------



## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Just for comparison sake, here are Bret Hart's first five televised matches in WCW:
> 
> Match #1 Vs Ric Flair (PPV Semi Main Event)
> 
> ...


Of course punk is in control. It may go through khan, but it’s on punk.

Not that I, or the majority, have a problem with how it’s going, and I am no punk guy.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

DaveRA said:


> Of course punk is in control. It may go through khan, but it’s on punk.
> 
> Not that I, or the majority, have a problem with how it’s going, and I am no punk guy.


How could you not have an issue with it? Lol. Dude is doing nothing.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

Massive flop. I am close to saying it's one of the biggest dropped balls in wrestling history.

AEW get CM Punk, the biggest star they could ever realistically get, and they immediately overexpose him by putting him on commentary, have him cut repetitive happy promos and wrestle Team Taz in the midcard. 

The title picture argument is a false dichotomy. He does not have to go the title right away, but that doesn't mean he has to flounder in the mid-card in pointless feuds. Everyone is saying be patient and wait for the heel turn. Why? Just do it now before any lustre and star power is gone.


----------



## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> How could you not have an issue with it? Lol. Dude is doing nothing.


Like I said, I have never been a punk guy and knew he wouldn’t move the needle much, but I have enjoyed his matches, his love fest promos and his commentary and look forward to him turning on everyone and feuding for the title - in the fullness of time.


----------



## Stylebender (Oct 12, 2019)

His babyface run in the fall of 2011 was dull too until he turned heel. Punk is such a great talent its only a matter of time before he levels up. Maybe they want to take it slow so that he,s inring ready before he,s in the mainevent. Plus with the win-loss record he has to beat some lowercard guys before he,s in the mainevent.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

SAMCRO said:


> Lol please don't talk about Bret's WCW booking as if it was good or well done lol, that was a fucking disaster, Bret himself will tell you he was miserable there and his booking was awful.


Exactly 

Remember when Bret's first PPV match was with that young up and Comer Ric Flair.

Heard that young guy did some big things after getting the rub from Hart.

I mean did you guys even watch the F'n Attitude Era, or are you just getting all your information from bad pdocasts?


----------



## BringBackTV14 (Oct 12, 2017)

he's just there to get a paycheck, cut the same boring promo, do commentary and occassionaly go over a mid-carder on Rampage and the PPVs


----------



## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Punk's biggest asset is his microphone ability and the vitriol he can spew. Pissed off Punk is what people want it doesn't necessarily have to be related to backstage stuff or authority injustices although I would agree that he was probably at his best in WWE doing that. He is also a much better heel than a face, I understand he needed to debut as a face but he should be close to turning heel now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Soon. Not yet. But soon.

It’s a nice twist on the Foley character in ECW


----------



## BringBackTV14 (Oct 12, 2017)

Chip Chipperson said:


> and imagine it with an AEW audience.



can't because the aew crowd is a hivemind that pops for every thing aew does.


----------



## ShadowCounter (Sep 1, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Do you really want to see 50 year old CM Punk running around?


Depends on how in shape he keeps himself both on the mic and in the ring. Jericho is doing fine, and is over like crazy with most. Why can't Punk do the same with 7 years less of damage to the body and no vodka induced love handles slowing him down?



Chip Chipperson said:


> 1. He isn't close to Vince. He is a distant second in this wrestling war and is doing under half of what WWE does.


In 2 years he's pulled within a few hundred thousand viewers away from beating what was WWE's number 1 show of 28 years. He already has beaten them in the key demos twice. He's selling more tickets and got 1 of the biggest ppv buy rates in years again in just year 2 of their existence. Yes, that is closing in on WWE on a number of fronts. As for making half the money, well that is due to Saudi Arabia and tv contracts and AEW is gonna get a massive tv contract increase and/or WWE will see a reduction if ratings continue as they are going. As for the Saudi deal.....hadn't they literally just requested parts of AEW's roster to show up at Crown Jewel a few months ago and WWE had to break it to them there were 2 companies now and some of those requested were contracted elsewhere? Saudi Arabia is a whole other discussion.



Chip Chipperson said:


> 2. The only reason he's been able to pull into second is because of money.


TNA had a ton of money at first too and they never got these crowds to buy merch/ppvs or even attend shows in number.



Chip Chipperson said:


> Proof is in the pudding really, next PPV is going to be Hangman Vs Omega with Hangman over when if Tony was a businessman and a good promoter it'd be Bryan over Omega. Dudes a mark I'm sorry to say.


You really want to abort the 1 storyline that has been running since before the company started really to force Bryan into Hangman's spot thus causing the audience to turn on him and possibly shit all over the match? You don't think that would kill off Bryan faster than anything? It didn't come off that great at Mania with Edge and Reigns. This would be 100 times worse. Imagine if the crowd started booing both Omega and Danielson while chanting for Hangman the whole time. Then what would you have left? Anger and disappointment.



Chip Chipperson said:


> 3. Tony didn't really do anything to reinvent Miro it's pretty much the same gimmick he did in WWE. Big angry man destroys other grown men.


Well that's quite the simplification. So by that logic does Reigns, Lesnar, McIntyre, and Lashley all just equal Hulk Hogan remakes? Is Sasha Banks/Becky just the same gimmick as Trish Stratus or Lita's? I don't think you really believe that.


----------



## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

Nice gaff on Bryan Daniel last night by punk. JR must be feeling better today lol.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

DaveRA said:


> Like I said, I have never been a punk guy and knew he wouldn’t move the needle much, but I have enjoyed his matches, his love fest promos and his commentary and look forward to him turning on everyone and feuding for the title - in the fullness of time.


Exactly this. He brings a differently paced match than what the rest of the AEW is doing. His matches have real selling and stories. His promos are obviously leading down the road of him turning on the crowd and everyone else. Outside of him screwing up on the Daniel Bryan of it all, his commentary is a decent mix of fun, snarky, and a good departure of naming every move with a bit of an over the top yell. 

When he turns, which he will, it'll be a fun fun time for everyone.


----------



## thorwold (Dec 19, 2015)

Smark1995 said:


> Seriously, what's next? He will start having matches on Dark and Elavation because why the fuck not right?


Because TV ratings are important, and their YouTube views are not so much. Difficult to wrap the head around, right? 

Could they have done something better, bigger, hotter? Sure they could. Clearly, for the time being they are fine just coasting and capitalizing on the wave of people just happy to see him. They've even acknowledged it in his promos. It may not be perfect, but as he doesn't seem to be going anywhere any time soon I don't really see what about it is worth getting so fucking angry about  The guy is there on TV every week, does that count for nothing?

Could it be he maybe is taking time to get back into the swing of things? He's in his 40s, and not done this in years, right? In AEW you're generally expected to be able to go in the ring, so maybe the dude needs to take some time to get back to optimum condition.


----------



## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

Give him more time, the fact he's been giving us better matches than the usual AEW shite is more valuable than you think


----------



## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Christian had worked 2 matches in 6 years before returning to AEW and beating Kenny Omega. One was a 1 minute match against Orton and one was a rumble.
> 
> It's pretty much the same thing.


Christian had already been training before he even appeared in the Royal Rumble. That much was obvious when he and Edge were moving very well in the Royal Rumble match. I don't count the unsanctioned match with Orton last year because that really wasn't much of a match.

Christian probably even as far back as that confrontation with Orton last year was wanting to get back in the ring. After all, Edge had returned and that gave him hope I am sure. Consider all of that PLUS Christian having 10 matches between the Royal Rumble and AEW before he had that Impact World title match with Kenny Omega. Christians path to returning to the ring was different than CM Punks since CM Punk admittedly in his first interview after joining AEW said that he hadn't started training in the ring yet.


----------



## hardcorewrasslin (Jun 29, 2016)

OP probably one of those retards who wanted CM Punk to be AEW, TNT, Tag and Women’s champion on the first night.


----------



## hardcorewrasslin (Jun 29, 2016)

La Parka said:


> Yeah, it would be ridiculous for AEW to throw someone in a title scene after being away from wrestling for so long...
> View attachment 110313


you seriously want Punk to be TNA champion in his first night back? Damn bro, why don’t you just ask TK to shoot him point blank in the face and get it over and down with. Fuck that.


----------



## thorwold (Dec 19, 2015)

La Parka said:


> Yeah, it would be ridiculous for AEW to throw someone in a title scene after being away from wrestling for so long...
> View attachment 110313


The thing is, he worked NINE completely unspecial matches prior to that one over the course of like 4 months, and more importantly when they went to that match/feud they did it as a backup thing because Page went home, and given their recent acquisitions they were no longer in a position where they needed a world title program that would carry or sell that show.

AEW has never been in to going straight to the big one, they more often than not tend to take their time with stuff. Again, they could have definitely given him bigger deal stuff since the Darby match than they have done, but I think getting him ring time is more important, so putting him in some major feud where it's going to be more about build is a secondary concern to them.


----------



## thorwold (Dec 19, 2015)

Hey, here's another thing. How many people who love to lol at how AEW just keeps picking up WWE's cast offs is now laughing at the fact that AEW are taking time building a WWE star back up on their own time? They got eyeballs on their product, that is undeniable. Now they're doing their thing.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Punk didn't need time to be built up, please stop that.

Its funny Jericho (who btw wasn't within a light year as over as Punk) had show built around him from the off.

One of the big issues with AEW and I said it many times is that they don't have anyone for Punk to go against regardless how hard they push. There is no Vince, no HHH, no Roman Reigns, basically no evil empire in fans mind he can topple.


----------



## go stros (Feb 16, 2020)

Not a flop but underwhelming. There is a great opponent for him if TK wants to go in that direction. His name is Cody. There are 2 types of Cody fans. The ones that love him and the ones that hate him. Have Punk be the voice of the non Cody fans.


----------



## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

What people don't seem to realize is that Punk and Bryan didn't get their biggest runs because of their work and their talking ability. From 2010-2013 their segments would routinely bomb in TV ratings and the PPVs they were promoted in did awful. They got over because they were the avatar of the anti establishment, they were the proxy through which the increasingly more hardcore live audiences could live through. That's dead and buried now. They're not more indy than 99% of this roster. They have a very apparent ceiling.



validreasoning said:


> Punk didn't need time to be built up, please stop that.
> 
> Its funny Jericho* (who btw wasn't within a light year as over as Punk) *had show built around him from the off.
> 
> One of the big issues with AEW and I said it many times is that they don't have anyone for Punk to go against regardless how hard they push. There is no Vince, no HHH, no Roman Reigns, basically no evil empire in fans mind he can topple.


Yeah, I'm not sure where you're basing that one. Their is absolutely nothing that suggests that CM Punk has historically been a bigger star than Chris Jericho. He may have gotten louder reactions from smark crowds in recent years, but that's about it.


----------



## zodiacF5 (Apr 3, 2017)

How the Fuck Dynamite beat RAW in rating when they are not in the same day. You AEW neckbeards surely delusional


----------



## YoshiMadness (Jul 25, 2021)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Punk's biggest asset is his microphone ability and the vitriol he can spew. Pissed off Punk is what people want it doesn't necessarily have to be related to backstage stuff or authority injustices although I would agree that he was probably at his best in WWE doing that. He is also a much better heel than a face, I understand he needed to debut as a face but he should be close to turning heel now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Completely agreed! I love CM Punk and he's one of my all time favorites, but tbh, I feel like the smarky, 4th wall breaking "shoot" stuff was a tad overrated. Punk was at his best when he was antagonistic or completely despicable or when he was on his high horse about his straight edge lifestyle or as scary cult leader.





















CM Punk Mocks Jeff Hardy | September 4, 2009 Friday Night Smackdown

CM Punk & Paul Heyman makes it personal with The Undertaker

CM Punk interrupts Undertaker's tribute to Paul Bearer Raw, March 11, 2013

CM Punk taunts The Undertaker with Paul Bearer's urn: Raw, March 18, 2013

SmackDown: Straight Edge Society Induction Ceremony

CM Punk's Straight Edge Salvation of Serena (1/2)

CM Punk's Straight Edge Salvation of Serena (2/2)

CM Punk Straight Edge Intervention


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

The XL 2 said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure where you're basing that one. Their is absolutely nothing that suggests that CM Punk has historically been a bigger star than Chris Jericho. He may have gotten louder reactions from smark crowds in recent years, but that's about it.


I said 'more over'. Nobody can argue that Punk was 'more over' when he walked out on Rampage that night than Jericho was in May 2019 yet AEW had zero problems building around Jericho back then even though Omega was hotter coming off NJPW run than Jericho was... 

Jericho has never been a difference maker. Punk at least was the second biggest star on Earth for a period something Jericho never came close to. Punk sold merch, outsold Cena for a while again something Jerichos never done.

In terms of actual interest Punk's trumped Jericho past decade+ https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=/m/026xcd,/m/05l473


----------



## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

Just a standard WWE troll thread from the WWE robots. Ignored forever


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan (May 9, 2017)

his return has been similar to christian's. it is clear he will never again be "the guy". but he puts on good matches


----------



## YoshiMadness (Jul 25, 2021)

Randy Lahey said:


> Just a standard WWE troll thread from the WWE robots. Ignored forever


Not ignored enough to not post in this thread though.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Well, at least the outcome of the poll is favorable enough.


----------



## MrMeeseeks (Aug 6, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Christian had worked 2 matches in 6 years before returning to AEW and beating Kenny Omega. One was a 1 minute match against Orton and one was a rumble.
> 
> It's pretty much the same thing.


the main difference is Christian isnt showing the signs of ring rust like Punk. once again how you ever were a promoter is beyond me


----------



## Smark1995 (Sep 18, 2020)

Randy Lahey said:


> Just a standard WWE troll thread from the WWE robots. Ignored forever


No wonder so many people consider AEW fans a cult. Can't take criticism


----------



## YoshiMadness (Jul 25, 2021)

DammitChrist said:


> Well, at least the outcome of the poll is favorable enough.


Yeah, because AEW marks will defend literally anything the company does. I feel like Cody could literally open fire on the audience, and you'd have threads on here about his amazing heel work.


----------



## VodooPimpin (Oct 10, 2021)

ya I think the whole thing is he should have returned to wwe or not have returned at all. It just feels like to me aew kinda doesn’t fit him. Or I didn’t expect him to be wrestling I think it would have been a bit more epic if he came back to wwe to the average fan. Its cool he is in aew though. We will see what they do with him.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

YoshiMadness said:


> *Yeah, because AEW marks will defend literally anything the company does.* I feel like Cody could literally open fire on the audience, and you'd have threads on here about his amazing heel work.


You realize that we can easily spin this the opposite way too regarding negative threads on here when something awesome happens (like Adam Page winning the AEW World title next month after a top MOTY contender against Kenny Omega), right?



Smark1995 said:


> No wonder so many people consider AEW fans a cult. Can't take criticism


No, it's a ridiculous question to begin with since CM Punk just came back not too long ago, and you're already calling his run a "flop" when he'll undoubtedly be in the main-event picture plenty of months from now. 

He's taking his time beating lower-level opponents to eliminate any ring rust he had. 

You don't NEED to blow through everything at once. You already have Bryan Danielson who's near the world title picture atm. CM Punk working his way back up to the top makes sense.

I don't see how that's so hard to understand for some of you.

Anyway, it's clear that you can't take folks calling you out for a questionable topic if that's how you're going to dismiss wrestling fans.


----------



## thorwold (Dec 19, 2015)

validreasoning said:


> Punk didn't need time to be built up, please stop that.
> 
> Its funny Jericho (who btw wasn't within a light year as over as Punk) had show built around him from the off.
> 
> One of the big issues with AEW and I said it many times is that they don't have anyone for Punk to go against regardless how hard they push. There is no Vince, no HHH, no Roman Reigns, basically no evil empire in fans mind he can topple.


The Punk and Jericho situations are obviously completely different. If Punk had come to AEW when it was beginning, before they got their TV deal extended in early 2020, he would have 100% been thrust straight into the main event, because they were a start up, and needed to immediately maximize any little bit of star power that they could. They got their big TV deal, they vanquished NXT, they no longer have to do that. They cashed in big time with his debut, and now they're doing their thing.


----------



## DZ Crew (Sep 26, 2016)

I'm a fan of Punk's and glad he's back. He's put on solid matches and proven that he can still go in the ring even after being away for 7 years. That being said, they need to give this guy a real feud and stop using him as a ratings grab for Rampage. Even that's not working well anymore as some of the "must seeness" about him and Bryan have now worn off. 

Punk is still a great talent and will always be a top guy for the company. I wouldn't call his return a flop, he's just cooled off since the initial hype has died off and they've failed to capitalize on their momentum as they always do. Punk and Bryan are still two big names but I still laugh at those who were claiming that this was the moment AEW would take on wwe and be a real war. The sad truth is the majority of fans who were clamoring to see guys like Punk and Bryan were already watching AEW and the ratings reflect that because even advertising Punk for Rampage isn't doing diddly squat for the ratings and it's not helping that he's wrestling middle card job guys.


----------



## CowboyKurtAngle (Jul 18, 2014)

It's early days, but it's been the same "happy to be here" promo most weeks. That's why it is easier for heels. I still laugh at Taz's "It's Sting! Aren't you tired of hearing that shit?" promo, a lot of MJF's ones and Dan Lambert.

For as much as Jericho can be annoying on commentary, he is also a level above Punk too, as a face right now. Maybe once he feuds with MJF, we will see the proper Punk.

He is new, but so is Black, and his presentation has been far better. Including beating the golden boy twice.


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

The Darby feud was the perfect introduction but since then it's been a little underwhelming, feels like he's coasting whilst removing the ring rust. Which makes logical sense tbf. Hopefully he gets into a meaty feud soon though - he seems to be progressing well enough. 

But ultimately, the Punk "flop" takes will end up being filed away with the Miro "buried" and Hangman "no longer relevant" takes.

AEW can struggle to maintain a shorterm buzz but the longer term payoffs are what makes it all worthwhile.


----------



## DUD (Feb 21, 2021)

Given CM Punk hasn't wrestled on seven years its absolutely understandable why they'd want him in the ring picking up victories against the likes of Matt Sydal to shake off ring rust and improve his endurance levels. To write him off before we've even seen him in programs with MJF, Bryan, Omega, Page, Cole, Mox etc is precisely why the hierarchy at WWE don't really care for online feedback and AEW at some point may have to go down the same route.


----------



## Victor86 (Jan 7, 2020)

Pentagon Senior said:


> The Darby feud was the perfect introduction but since then it's been a little underwhelming, feels like he's coasting whilst removing the ring rust. Which makes logical sense tbf. Hopefully he gets into a meaty feud soon though - he seems to be progressing well enough.
> 
> But ultimately, the Punk "flop" takes will end up being filed away with the Miro "buried" and Hangman "no longer relevant" takes.
> 
> AEW can struggle to maintain a shorterm buzz but the longer term payoffs are what makes it all worthwhile.


The Darby feud was a disaster and it’s the reason he lost a lot of steam.

Not just becuase Darby is a nobody with zero physical presence but the way they build the match.

They tried to book it like some huge dream match of Taker/Sting, Rock/Hogan, Rock/Cena etc level. With Sting going out to kiss Punks ass and assure that he won’t even be around becuase he doesn’t want to ruin this “collosal” moment.

For one, Punk coming out and calling out Darby for no apparent reason was beyond dumb- in every legit sport it’s the young up and comer who would call out the veteran in order to try make a name for himself. Why did punk had to call out Darby when it should have been Darby interrupting punk, telling him he doesn’t have it anymore and challenges punk to a match to make a statement? Instead you have this multi time World champ returning and calling out a guy who never won a major title, is green and is physically smaller than him…

Second of all the match should absolutely had a screw up finish with Sting coming out after all and hitting punk with a baseball bat to protect his protege. Which would have naturally made punk come out later for a bloody vengeance feud the same way Edge did with Orton or even now with Rollins.

The Darby match lacked any heat, any intrigue and everyone knew punk is winning so it just ended up being a meh program overall.


----------



## TonySirico (Sep 8, 2021)

He didn’t move enough t shirts for ya, chief?
Fucking mark lol


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

DammitChrist said:


> You realize that we can easily spin this the opposite way too regarding negative threads on here when something awesome happens (like Adam Page winning the AEW World title next month after a top MOTY contender against Kenny Omega), right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So why did he start off with his first match being Darby? That directly goes against getting his legs back under him in the undercard.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Victor86 said:


> The Darby feud was a disaster and it’s the reason he lost a lot of steam.
> 
> Not just becuase Darby is a nobody with zero physical presence but the way they build the match.
> 
> ...


Tbf Darby called out Punk first


----------



## Victor86 (Jan 7, 2020)

RapShepard said:


> Tbf Darby called out Punk first


Maybe I missed that part but what I saw was punk coming back cutting a promo then called out Darby . It Darby called punk first it was probably at a point of the show where many of us wasn’t even watching lol


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Victor86 said:


> Maybe I missed that part but what I saw was punk coming back cutting a promo then called out Darby . It Darby called punk first it was probably at a point of the show where many of us wasn’t even watching lol


----------



## Upstart474 (May 13, 2018)

It is Tony Khan who is the complete flop, fraud promotor of the year.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

77 to 49. Look like the nays have it.


----------



## SAMCRO (Jul 10, 2006)

BringBackTV14 said:


> he's just there to get a paycheck, cut the same boring promo, do commentary and occassionaly go over a mid-carder on Rampage and the PPVs
> 
> View attachment 110323


Lol damn all the shows where he's just promoted as a commentator or just gonna cut his happy promo, but never a match or a face to face with someone, just CM Punk will talk lol.


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

Victor86 said:


> Maybe I missed that part but what I saw was punk coming back cutting a promo then called out Darby . It Darby called punk first it was probably at a point of the show where many of us wasn’t even watching lol


Yeah Darby did actually call out Punk first so that's not an issue. 

The rest is subjective but for me Darby was the perfect first opponent - a rising star and fan favourite calling out an older returning star and fan favourite to give the audience a feel good moment. Punk's promos about his motivation og working with the young talent ties in and Darby was pretty much the highest guy in the card who could afford a loss. 

Each to their own though.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

MrMeeseeks said:


> the main difference is Christian isnt showing the signs of ring rust like Punk. once again how you ever were a promoter is beyond me


Not were, am.


----------



## Jay Trotter (Apr 10, 2019)

There is simply no heat and no story to anything he does. Not even the build with Darby had any fire to it cause of the mutual respect factor. He had a brief dispute with Team Taz for a few weeks, but not against the only member of the group that is worth his time. Punk vs Starks? I think that would've rated better. Someone that can hang with him on the mic. He has matches for the sake of having matches against bottom card jobbers. You can have the guy shaking off the ring rust against the best of Dark on Friday at 10pm, but there damn well should've been an angle to work with in the process. Punk vs MJF fued leading into Full Gear? Same as above. I think that also would've rated better. Someone that can hang with him on mic. He has promos for the sake of having promos with the same repetitive message that never leads to anything. How can you take one of the most electric live promos of all time and give me next to nothing to work with? 

He is still as natural and fantastic as ever on the mic, but the happy go lucky speech has ran it's course. Honestly, it's never even been his personality. Punk needs to have a chip on his shoulder or be pissed off about something in his promos. He has been a bigger factor on commentary than as performer on the A show in Dynamite. That should sum it up in a nutshell how terribly this has been booked. He is basically irrelevant on the only show that matters to AEW. He is never treated like a big deal on anything except the B show in Rampage. I don't even watch it live. I see little online traffic about it. Guy is still insanely over. Pops are still loud as hell. It's like the fans are just waiting for something for him to sink his teeth into. 

It's not his fault. Totally on booking. You can have long term storytelling, but give the man something relevant to work with.


----------



## ShadowCounter (Sep 1, 2016)

Forum Dud said:


> Given CM Punk hasn't wrestled on seven years its absolutely understandable why they'd want him in the ring picking up victories against the likes of Matt Sydal to shake off ring rust and improve his endurance levels. To write him off before we've even seen him in programs with MJF, Bryan, Omega, Page, Cole, Mox etc is precisely why the hierarchy at WWE don't really care for online feedback and AEW at some point may have to go down the same route.


Not to mention get his body used to prolonged bumps again. Hell just running the ropes probably hurt like hell the first 2 or 3 matches. He was gone for 7 years and didn't do much in the way of practicing before he came back. Frankly, I'm surprised he's been as good as he has.


----------



## Unorthodox (Jan 8, 2013)

He needs to move on to bigger things soon, If he stays wrestling job guys the mystique will vanish. If he went back to WWE i have no doubt they would have presented him as a huge deal and put him in a main event program instantly.

Teaming him up with Danielson for a few tag team matches against the elite would be a great start for me.


----------



## Gn1212 (May 17, 2012)

This thread is still alive, feels like Wrestling Forum in 2011-2012. People can't stop talking about Punk. 

Thanks for supporting my man. 👍


----------



## yeahbaby! (Jan 27, 2014)

His match against Sydal was great. The only minus for me so far is his commentary.


----------



## mwc2k5 (Jul 5, 2016)

Its still early to tell but i do have to say i hated his demeanor so far in AEW. When Bryan Danielson showed up, he was basically like "I'm here to kick people's fucking heads in and show why I am still the best in the world." While CM Punk was like "Gee golly, i used to be the best in world but i don't know if i still got it. I am just here to put over the young guys." Thats not what fans want from CM Punk after a 7 years absence. We want best in the world CM Punk, not "I am just happy to be here" CM Punk.


----------



## Driver79 (Sep 19, 2021)

CM Punk and his fans are figuring out what Vince already knew 10 years ago. That he is not the star he thinks he is.

Punk was never gonna be a bigger babyface than Cena, Rock and Undertaker. It was just never in the cards. He's too small and he just doesn't have that same appeal. The thought of him main eventing Wrestlemania and going over one of those guys clean probably made Vince laugh to be honest.

That's not to say Punk wasn't a star because he definitely was. When Rock came back he only wrestled a handful of times and Punk was the only guy not named John Cena who was worthy enough to step in the ring with him. But he was never going to win and he was never going to get put over as a babyface. The only way that match happens is if Punk turns heel so that Rock can go over.

So you can't say Vince didn't have a high opinion of Punk. He booked him against Rock, he booked him against Taker... those were some pretty high profile matches. And yet for some reason Punk and his fans think lowly of them because he had to play second fiddle... but in reality that was his ceiling. We're seeing it now. 

At the very least he should be a heel, no doubt about it. It was great that he came back as a face so that he and the fans can have that moment and embrace his return... but the only way they save this now is by turning him heel on the fans. We had the lovefest, it was great... but everyone knows Punk is at his best and can reach his highest point when he is someone you love to hate.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

instead of people being delusional and blaming aew why dont you put on some brain power and actually consider that there really is not that much depth for him to offer and stop attaching yourselves to the one cool pipebomb storyline he had as a rebellious gimmick against a shitty wwe system that was during a time when wwe was trash.

it is possible you know. really try and look past that one thing and really think about what hes offered other than the under dog run that ran its course very fast so if hes not crying about how the business should be what does he have

you people really wanna see a repeat punk pull the same boring pipe bomb gimmick against aew and how wrestling is bad bla bla bla after he goes on being cute each week about how hes happy. 

hes been a master at trailing people along him after being gone for so long because hes so much better than the business.

please


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

zodiacF5 said:


> How the Fuck Dynamite beat RAW in rating when they are not in the same day. You AEW neckbeards surely delusional


By comparing the ratings they got that week. If one is higher than the other than that show beat the other.

It's not that hard chief.


----------



## ajmaf625 (Dec 7, 2007)

The return was crazy good as was the match with Darby, the follow up not so much. They've completely oversaturated Dynamite and mostly Rampage with Punk and he's overstayed his welcome. The one thing WWE does correctly is its use of Brock which is how AEW should use Punk. Maybe not as a champion but as a big time star who comes back for the big time matches.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life (Jul 31, 2013)

AEW doesnt really do fueds or storys. Its all debut moments, and matches for Meltzer ratings. So ofc they had no plan but to sign Punk and debut him. Compare his return to Edges and his feuds with Orton, Roman and now Rollins.


----------



## cai1981 (Oct 2, 2016)

Punk's return is reminding me of the 80s and 90s WWF when a star would return and you would only see them on Superstars or Wrestling Challenge facing jobbers for months while the company tried to figure out how to fit them in...30-35 years later with the exposure on TV and social media, this is TERRIBLE BUSINESS!!

Punk needs to be in a real feud with a star, not going through jobbers on the B show that barely draws 500k viewers. That crap of working off ring rust is BS! He is 43 years old and is not going to get in optimal ring shape wrestling 1 match every other week. At least if he returned to WWE, he would have 1 TV and 3-4 house shows per week to get in shape.

He is what he is going to be physivally. Just get him in the ring with marquee up and coming names and hope he does what he needs to do outside the ring to get in shape. People didn't wait 7 years for this man to come back to be wrestling green jobbers and irrelevant has-beens like Sydal. Use this man to draw attention to your company by elevating your hopeful stars.


----------



## wwetna1 (Apr 7, 2005)

Punk has been Bret Hart going to WCW, down to the plan to push him on Thunder


----------



## wwetna1 (Apr 7, 2005)

cai1981 said:


> Punk's return is reminding me of the 80s and 90s WWF when a star would return and you would only see them on Superstars or Wrestling Challenge facing jobbers for months while the company tried to figure out how to fit them in...30-35 years later with the exposure on TV and social media, this is TERRIBLE BUSINESS!!
> 
> Punk needs to be in a real feud with a star, not going through jobbers on the B show that barely draws 500k viewers. That crap of working off ring rust is BS! He is 43 years old and is not going to get in optimal ring shape wrestling 1 match every other week. At least if he returned to WWE, he would have 1 TV and 3-4 house shows per week to get in shape.
> 
> He is what he is going to be physivally. Just get him in the ring with marquee up and coming names and hope he does what he needs to do outside the ring to get in shape. People didn't wait 7 years for this man to come back to be wrestling green jobbers and irrelevant has-beens like Sydal. Use this man to draw attention to your company by elevating your hopeful stars.


Even had he not been during road shows ... Vince would have had him at the PC training or would have sent a ring to him like Rock, Brock, and Taker to train and wrote that shit off


----------



## Sterling Golden (Oct 18, 2021)

I don't see how you could claim it hasn't been a flop. Cm punks return went from being one of the most anticipated returns in pro wrestling to fizzling out within a month.

Rampages tv ratings has been declining with him on it. They're not even maintaining viewers, they're losing them. You can look at other measurements of popularity like Google trends and see that his momentum has died.

Cm punk is already 43 years old and he was very unathletic even in his prime. He doesn't have the time to slowly find his groove agains. If he had a lot of ring rust, they should simply have fixed that by having him train behind the scenes. Shawn Michaels didn't come back to wrestling wrestling jobbers after being out for 4 years.

You have to have deeply tribal feelings about AEW to deny that the booking has been lackluster.
Imagine if some other comebacks had been booked similarly to Cm Punk's comeback:

It's 2000. Steve Austin makes a return from his neck injury and spends a couple of months wrestling Stevie Richards, Val venis and Dean Malenko on heat.

It's the end of 1996. Bret Hart makes a comeback wrestling guys like Savio Vega, the Sultan and Bob holly on WWF superstars and shotgun Saturday.


----------



## Rated Phenomenal (Dec 31, 2011)

I’m not even joking, I completely forgot Punk was in AEW untill I saw this thread, man thats bad, too bad we won’t see him in WWE would love to see a fued between him and Rollins, Reigns w/ Paul Heyman and AJ Styles.


----------



## SevenStarSplash (Jul 29, 2021)

I like AEW and CM Punk but I voted YES for it being a flop. His return was built up for 7 years...7 years of chants...7 years of him saying he'll never return.....7 years of HYPE. His return was great, hearing cult of personality was great it was all done well and then....

A debut match vs Darby Allen which has had no follow up, A mini 3 week feud with Team Tazz and CM PUNK LIVE INTERVIEW with TONY x 3?! 


I know AEW is into long term storytelling but imagine telling someone to tune into CM Punk because he's back and it's just him having matches with young guys....there is just no bite to anything he does. He's just having okay matches without any angles, unlike Bryan Danielson who can just have matches randomly and it makes sense, CM Punk as a character needs constant obstacles and angles to keep him fresh since his best points are on the mic rather than in-ring.

I assume it'll get better but for now 2 months in it hasn't been a good run for CM Punk.


----------



## greasykid1 (Dec 22, 2015)

It amazes me sometimes that one person can make an absolutely ridiculous comment, stating something that is quite literally 100% incorrect on every level ... and the thread will still end up full of people agreeing LMAO

I have massively enjoyed every match that Bryan and Punk have been involved in since their debuts in AEW, and I am still excited to see them do more, and see where their characters go.

If you don't like AEW, or don't like Punk, just say you don't like them. Don't make up this blatantly bullshit narrative about their appearances, matches etc being bad. Both of them are still getting the biggest reactions from the live crowds. If that is your definition of a "flop", you need to buy a new dictionary.


----------



## A PG Attitude (Nov 5, 2012)

greasykid1 said:


> It amazes me sometimes that one person can make an absolutely ridiculous comment, stating something that is quite literally 100% incorrect on every level ... and the thread will still end up full of people agreeing LMAO
> 
> I have massively enjoyed every match that Bryan and Punk have been involved in since their debuts in AEW, and I am still excited to see them do more, and see where their characters go.
> 
> If you don't like AEW, or don't like Punk, just say you don't like them. Don't make up this blatantly bullshit narrative about their appearances, matches etc being bad. Both of them are still getting the biggest reactions from the live crowds. If that is your definition of a "flop", you need to buy a new dictionary.


It's because people have got used to WWE putting people straight into main events upon return, or even when debuting from NXT. But in doing that you lose all the value in a characters story arc. AEW have shown they build stories over a year or two, and Punk has said himself he's laying the foundations, calling it a flop when the story hasn't been told yet is silly and impatient.


----------



## wwetna1 (Apr 7, 2005)

CM Punk is the modern day Jerry The King Lawler basically with his current booking


----------



## YoshiMadness (Jul 25, 2021)

greasykid1 said:


> It amazes me sometimes that one person can make an absolutely ridiculous comment, stating something that is quite literally 100% incorrect on every level ... and the thread will still end up full of people agreeing LMAO
> 
> I have massively enjoyed every match that Bryan and Punk have been involved in since their debuts in AEW, and I am still excited to see them do more, and see where their characters go.
> 
> If you don't like AEW, or don't like Punk, just say you don't like them. Don't make up this blatantly bullshit narrative about their appearances, matches etc being bad. Both of them are still getting the biggest reactions from the live crowds. If that is your definition of a "flop", you need to buy a new dictionary.







I don't like AEW very much, and I won't pretend otherwise. But I do love Punk. And his return was great. And his feud with Darby was cool. Everything after was shit. His AEW run has been massively disappointing so far.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

His match quality has been high but I'm ready for him to have an actual feud. I guess they dropped the angle with Team Taz? I was looking forward to Starks and Punk having promo battles but then they didn't even have a match


----------



## JeSeGaN (Jun 5, 2018)

It started kinda strong, but it went downhill fast...

Him botching around the ring is also not really helping.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Sterling Golden said:


> I don't see how you could claim it hasn't been a flop. Cm punks return went from being one of the most anticipated returns in pro wrestling to fizzling out within a month.
> 
> Rampages tv ratings has been declining with him on it. They're not even maintaining viewers, they're losing them. You can look at other measurements of popularity like Google trends and see that his momentum has died.
> 
> ...



You have to realize why he has created such a perfect illusion of a comeback. The guy came off of one co storyline that was against ahjtty wwe when wwe is being shitty. He leaves and is one of the only people to stay away for 7 years and he drags everyone alone with him for 7 years being a Twitter loser tease.


It's all smoking mirrors. This is what you get and what he is capable of. Either I'm happy punk I'm in wrestling again or turn heel and bitch about aew and do the exact same cry baby story that got him over In wwe.

I'm trying to tell people to wake up and realize this is the reality but people are foolish and now we have endless people wondering why he's meh but still defend it.

Do we really want aew just to be based on matches. Even In sew they have proved this doesn't really matter who wins compared to story and characters. This is hey people should stop thinking about who he's facing and more what he's doing. If he faces better guys it's still going to be the same


----------



## AuthorOfPosts (Feb 9, 2020)

Tony Khan using him in random matches that don't play into anything and Punk having zero character right now has Punk looking like a nobody.

He's never been great in the ring but he used to be entertaining on the mic. He doesn't have that now. 

Being positioned as the face of Rampage must be some sort of punishment or Tony Khan is just a fucking idiot.


----------



## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

I'm not saying he's bad, but his best stuff was when he was breaking the fourth wall and shocking people with what he said. I was watching some of his promo work against Cena and HHH and it was fun but that's literally his whole character. He's always needed a gimmick like he had in the SES stable or breaking the fourth wall to get over. Everybody breaks the fourth wall these days. Everyone. He's just another guy right now and he's a lot older and slower.

So yes, expectations where blown out of proportion indeed.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

CM punk should come to the ring in flip flops if he reads this forum


----------



## DUSTY 74 (Aug 11, 2021)

wwetna1 said:


> CM Punk is the modern day Jerry The King Lawler basically with his current booking


Knowing Punk and being here now where he has the autonomy to play out something he grew up a fan of in a modern way this is probably exactly what’s he’s going for in his booking


----------



## wwetna1 (Apr 7, 2005)

DUSTY 74 said:


> Knowing Punk and being here now where he has the autonomy to play out something he grew up a fan of in a modern way this is probably exactly what’s he’s going for in his booking


I think it’s what he wants. I really have no comparison for someone who spends so much time announcing and then switching to wrestling besides King and then goes back to the booth


----------



## Awareness (Jun 11, 2015)

Watching CM Punk and watching Edge is like watching two different species at work.


----------



## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)




----------



## DUSTY 74 (Aug 11, 2021)

Brodus Clay said:


> View attachment 110586


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Punk is an all time great talent, GOAT level... But he hurt his legacy coming back, his run in AEW is tras and smarks are turning on him, shiit.


----------



## Victor86 (Jan 7, 2020)

Soul Rex said:


> Punk is an all time great talent, GOAT level... But he hurt his legacy coming back, his run in AEW is tras and smarks are turning on him, shiit.


Punk is not an all time great in any means, sure he cut one promo talking shit about the company which made people think he was the next coming of Steve Austin but Mox did a similar promo when he joined AEW and if given the chance would have cut it during his WWE time.

Besides that talking out of character and calling people by their real names or talking about backstage politics in order to pander to the smarks is hardly an “all time great “ thing .

When punk has to stick to a character without backstage shit he is just an ok talent with a big ego and nothing special just as we are seeing right now …


----------



## ThenWo/WCW (Jan 8, 2014)

Worst comeback in wrestling history

He didn't do anything for AEW


----------



## Gn1212 (May 17, 2012)

ThenWo/WCW said:


> Worst comeback in wrestling history
> 
> He didn't do anything for AEW


Yeah, he simply took down their shop for days. His ringer tees are often out of stock and you'll be lucky to get one. Cody said they had to quadruple their servers to maintain the traffic they're now receiving because of him.
He has a brought lots of attention to AEW which has helped them beat RAW, and SD(H2H).
But yeah, worst comeback in wrestling history. 😬


----------



## Ockap (Jun 11, 2021)

I can tell how many posters are very young when they say Punk is the worst wrestling comeback. Don't get me wrong now, I don't think it's been all that great but it can't be the worst when this happened:


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal (Feb 24, 2014)

justin waynes said:


> I knew its only a matter of time till the fickle fan start lashing cm punk. Fans are clueless


Fans are always clueless.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Ockap said:


> I can tell how many posters are very young when they say Punk is the worst wrestling comeback. Don't get me wrong now, I don't think it's been all that great but it can't be the worst when this happened:



You're aware most of it's audience are younger. The type that watched everything wwe in the 2010ish days. It's just unbelievable when people have to be offended when for once people might actually be giving a different opinion about a guy that hasn't proven that he has a diverse long standing career. But no we have to have excuses why anyone critisises this guy


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Gn1212 said:


> Yeah, he simply took down their shop for days. His ringer tees are often out of stock and you'll be lucky to get one. Cody said they had to quadruple their servers to maintain the traffic they're now receiving because of him.
> He has a brought lots of attention to AEW which has helped them beat RAW, and SD(H2H).
> But yeah, worst comeback in wrestling history. 😬



Of course he did, this guy's created the biggest string along anticipation of all time. Trolled the internet for years and rare person that actually didn't come back. It's easy to do this to people these days and especially from someone that actually walked away


----------



## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

It's very night and day between the way him and bryan have spent the early part of of their career in aew, bryan is fighting the best and credible guys and is in a tournament to get a chance to get a shot at the title, punk should be getting the same booking.


----------



## Driver79 (Sep 19, 2021)

Dizzie said:


> It's very night and day between the way him and bryan have spent the early part of of their career in aew, bryan is fighting the best and credible guys and is in a tournament to get a chance to get a shot at the title, punk should be getting the same booking.


My theories:

1. Bryan is in much better wrestling shape than Punk. There's a small chance that Punk didn't want to put himself in a top spot right away in case he couldn't handle the load.

2. Punk doesn't want to come off as doing what he used to criticize the WWE part timers for. He doesn't wanna be the guy who took years off and then comes right back to a plush main event spot at the expense of the guys who've been putting in the work the last year and a half.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*OP is like:







*


----------



## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Driver79 said:


> My theories:
> 
> 1. Bryan is in much better wrestling shape than Punk. There's a small chance that Punk didn't want to put himself in a top spot right away in case he couldn't handle the load.
> 
> 2. Punk doesn't want to come off as doing what he used to criticize the WWE part timers for. He doesn't wanna be the guy who took years off and then comes right back to a plush main event spot at the expense of the guys who've been putting in the work the last year and a half.


Maybe but he faces and best darby in his first match back could have had programs with Christian and also attached himself to a group like bryan did by teaming up with darby and sting.


----------



## ShadowCounter (Sep 1, 2016)

This thread is gonna be laugh out loud funny a year from now when Punk is challenging MJF for the AEW title and all these nay sayers are posting about how Punk is the greatest thing ever.


----------



## Gn1212 (May 17, 2012)

ShadowCounter said:


> This thread is gonna be laugh out loud funny a year from now when Punk is challenging MJF for the AEW title and all these nay sayers are posting about how Punk is the greatest thing ever.


I would be surprised if MJF vs. Punk doesn't happen sooner. Sounds like he and Wardlow are facing off at Full Gear. I assume he will be teaming up with Sting and Darby for his next program.
I also expect him to be a heel in a year's time. 😅


----------



## Smark1995 (Sep 18, 2020)

Wait ... Now Punk Feuds with 45-year-old Jobber from NXT? Guys who voted no in the poll - it's not too late to admit that I was right and change the vote. 
You must be able to admit your mistakes


----------



## Gn1212 (May 17, 2012)

Smark1995 said:


> Wait ... Now Punk Feuds with 45-year-old Jobber from NXT? Guys who voted no in the poll - it's not too late to admit that I was right and change the vote.
> You must be able to admit your mistakes


Feuds with? It's a simple match. 😂
Fish was in the main event of Dynamite last week btw against Bryan and had a great match with him.
You do realize they're waiting to pull the trigger on Punk either saving Darby or confronting MJF, right?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

ShadowCounter said:


> This thread is gonna be laugh out loud funny a year from now when Punk is challenging MJF for the AEW title and all these nay sayers are posting about how Punk is the greatest thing ever.


AEW's rating? 1.0 million.


----------



## The_Great_One21 (Feb 22, 2012)

Shambles. It really is.

Imagine if when The Rock came back this was the garbage they did with him in 2011/12/13. Instead he fought Cena and Punk himself.

He feels completely stripped of every ounce of star power. Could not have been booked worse.


----------



## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

As someone who was sceptical about how well Punk's comeback in AEW would go I've been pleasantly surprised how well it has actually gone. 

His Chicago home coming was one of the beat wrestling moments I've seen, he's a joy on commentary, his promos are engaging and energy creators and the story they're telling of this rusty guy working his way through hungry active wrestlers to build himself up to previous levels I'm on board with.


He'll be in the main even picture before long and will start to get in the ring with some of the big players. Omega, Danielson and Hangman Page are the main men right now - and Punk's found a place on the card where he co exists and build himself up to compete in those big matches. It's refreshing how little ego Punk is showing.


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW's rating? 1.0 million.


Yup. By the time they actually do anything with Punk, any lapsed or casual fan AEW may have attracted have checked out.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

Im exaggerating a little bit here, but i feel like im the only one who actually likes anything when i read these threads.


----------



## Smark1995 (Sep 18, 2020)

AEW President Tony Khan sparked heavy debate a few weeks back when he posted several tweets referring to WCW and Ted Turner and stating that if the billionaire had 1% of the knowledge he had about wrestling then WCW would still be around.


That comment caused former WCW President Eric Bischoff to come to the defense of Turner and stated that Khan’s tweets comparing himself to Turner were ignorant and uninformed. Khan responded to Bischoff when he appeared on Busted Open Radio and fired back at WCW’s former leader.

Khan responded to Bischoff telling him to just “shut up and wrestle” in regard to his comments about competing with WWE. The AEW President also mentioned how AEW beat WWE head-to-head for a 30-minute period in the key demographic (18-49) and that TNT was “over the moon” about it on Friday night.

Bischoff responded to Khan’s comments on the latest episode of the 83 Weeks Podcast, stating his view of the situation on Friday night. The WWE Hall of Famer spoke about Khan’s comments where he referred to having to position CM Punk at the top of the show to garner a better rating than WWE at that time to suggest he’s a big star. Bischoff also stated his belief that WWE’s move to have an extra 30 minutes of SmackDown was done so AEW would react and believes it having a negative effect on the show.

“Great anticipation about CM Punk right? I put it over, I was excited about it,” Bischoff mentioned. “And I’ve never met CM Punk, I’ve never had a conversation with Punk but I’m well aware of the equity and value in that character and the way it was teased and the anticipation that was created, I was so excited about that. It was the first time in a long time that I’ve seen a real orchestrated controlled build that really created the anticipation that I think is such a big part of what makes wrestling work. Since that time, they’re right back down to 500,00-600,000 viewers. Tony says ‘Well, they decided they were going to go head to head with us and I was going to put Punk and Sydal,’ and this is not negative to either but what did it do? Not much arguably but what did happen, and this is the art of war part of this, is WWE forced by doing that overlap into AEWs time slot, forced a situation where now CM Punk is opening up the show.”


“WWE made a move that was the catalyst for Tony Khan to take his highest profile piece of talent, arguably, and put him in that time slot and the show did less than a million viewers. How is that a f***ing win? Burning up talent, putting someone into a match with a storyline, with no angle. It was definitely an in-delicious move but you’re burning up resources and you walked away with less than a million viewers?”

“WWE delivered more viewers, which affects everything. Pay per view, merchandise, ticket sales, all the other metrics you want to identify. WWE delivered more viewers than AEW on a third or fourth tier cable outlet than AEW did with one their highest profile pieces and new fresh talent and WWE outperformed them. Now, if you don’t want to acknowledge that and you want to shift everybody on the internet’s focus to a key demo for a 30-minute period of time, hurrah for you. It’s not real, not when it comes to context. My point in this diatribe is that Vince caused you to make a big move that, in my opinion, was less than flattering.”

Several weeks back, CM Punk made a comment stating that AEWs talent acquisitions were bigger than when WCW brought in Scott Hall and Kevin Nash and stated that wrestling fans won’t see the affects of the big signings until “five years down the road”. Having been the President of the company at the time, Bischoff refuted those comments heavily and said “Punk has sh*t the bed” since coming into AEW with high ratings. Bischoff continued to talk about CM Punk and the fact that in his eyes, “The Best in the World” has not reached the level that was promised in AEW and needs to “be careful about what you say until you’re delivering” for AEW.

“Punk hasn’t delivered,” Bischoff said. “Punk was the guy that came out and his first comments were ‘The addition of this talent was more significant than Scott Hall and Kevin Nash,’ constantly making references to WCW because they want to be the company that WCW was back in the mid-90s. There’s these constant references to WCW. When Scott Hall and Kevin Nash came in, we took off. Punk, you came in and you sh*t the bed, in terms of ratings. It ain’t there and there’s nothing in reality to suggest otherwise. You just need to be careful about what you say until you’re delivering. That comment that Punk made about these guys being more significant than Hall and Nash in 96 and then two weeks after Punk made his big arrival the ratings dropped by 40-50%.


“This is what lit my fuse, I wasn’t going to comment on any of this until Punk came out and said ‘It’s going to take five years for the effect of this talent to really show up significantly in the ratings,’ are you f***ing kidding me? Does anybody other than an uninformed wrestling fan who loves CM Punk, is anybody going to believe that nonsense? It’s going to take five years? Dude, you’re going to be getting AARP mail, because it happens soon as you start getting close to 50 they start pounding you with this s--t. I let that one go but then to come out a couple weeks later, after in my opinion he should be embarrassed, and for the ratings to take the dive the way they did after his debut, suggests to me that he ain’t as hot as he’s trying to make people think he is. If he was, the numbers would be much bigger.”


----------



## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

Lol Eric literally said he would debut Punk in AEW as a commentator.


----------



## SuperstarSlyme (Oct 25, 2021)

TK does need to stfu sometimes but yawn Eric tryna stay relevant with his opinions lol kudos to him but brotha u had 1-5 good idea(s) 25 years ago give it up


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

And if he was rocketed into the title scene after a seven year layoff very likely the same people would be bitching. It's a cottage industry.


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

Punk has delivered.

Everyone is focusing on a single measure: the quantity of viewers:

But they fail to account for the intangible influence of CM Punk on the existing pool of wrestling fans who now wholeheartedly believe in AEW as a viable long-term competitor to WWE.

I myself was already leaning towards AEW this year, but when they began hinting at Punk’s return, that’s when I personally felt a confident swing in favour of AEW and the importance of what they’re putting out there.

I went back and re-watched Hangman’s interactions with Omega.

I watched a few full episodes of BTE for the first time.

I stopped watching WWE on the day altogether, only watching SD highlights on Youtube later (and I’ve completely missed several shows altogether, not even bothering to watch Roman’s segments some weeks).

None of the above measures are captured by my viewership of AEW. I was already watching, but I’m far more engaged long-term than I felt 6 months ago after the sparklers incident.

These factors are all influenced by Punk’s return to AEW and the symbolism behind it.

How many people have strengthened their long-term interest in AEW like me? Am I an outlier or are 100’s of thousands of AEW fans investing into the product a lot more than they otherwise would’ve been largely because of Punk’s return and what it represents?

If so, his return has been a success.

Critics are looking at a single measure that is important, but doesn’t capture the full story.


----------



## Gn1212 (May 17, 2012)

Just reading through it you can see how salty Bischoff is over the whole thing. It went on and on and on and on...

It's well documented by his peers that Eric doesn't have a good wrestling mind and it shows.


----------



## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

Salty AF


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

IronMan8 said:


> Punk has delivered.
> 
> Everyone is focusing on a single measure: the quantity of viewers:
> 
> ...


This is a long horse shit post to spin his run to this point as a positive.

In our hardcore bubble every big moment is disingenuously the new "this made me love wrestling again". 

AEW getting Punk, Bryan, and Cole is a big deal no doubt. But the reality is as of now there doesn't seem to be some big benefit of signing all those names. Which means in the real world that folk that watch wrestling didn't in mass go "oh shit AEW is legit"

Your post hits good in forums especially AEW leaning forums, but when you actually look to actual evidence it's clear you're talking bull shit. 

That doesn't mean AEW can't or won't grow. But as of now Punk hasn't been the hit most would think. In AEW first fans heart of hearts I doubt if somebody told them at the beginning of the year that AEW would get Punk, Bryan, and Cole yet Dynamite would still be losing out to Raw folk would believe it.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Why are people offended by the rising amount of people that that believe hes Isn't great. People should Just accept the truth so we can get on with this


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

There's nothing to actually dispute Bischoff on here. AEW produced good shows, but the signings of Punk, Bryan, and Cole haven't produced the change that most would've thought. And no the "but AEW is only 2 years old" doesn't work here. Guys like Punk, Bryan, and Cole are supposed to bring even more recognition and name value to an already bubbling brand like AEW.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> This is a long horse shit post to spin his run to this point as a positive.
> 
> In our hardcore bubble every big moment is disingenuously the new "this made me love wrestling again".
> 
> ...



I think Tony fussing over spending way to much money to sign these guys nonstop is taking away from Tony focused on getting himself or others to build the aew identity and direction and creative. No one outside of die hard have a clue or care about these guys.

Aew is still identityless just like Cody stated himself


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

If WWE booked his return like this, people would be shitting on them endlessly.

AEW had the hottest possible free agent signing and they completely dropped the ball.

I don’t care if it was Punks creative freedom, you do not allow a top star go out there and have matches with nameless guys on a show that nobody will ever care about.

We are a few weeks away from a PPV and Punk is currently feuding with Bobby Fish! Cmon...


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

shandcraig said:


> I think Tony fussing over spending way to much money to sign these guys nonstop is taking away from Tony focused on getting himself or others to build the aew identity and direction and creative. No one outside of die hard have a clue or care about these guys.
> 
> Aew is still identityless just like Cody stated himself


He's in a tough spot honestly. How does he build out from the core without alienating the core. Look at what happened with TNA back in the day. They got more eyes with Bischoff and Hogan, but most of the diehards felt betrayed. He's doing stuff that pleases his core, but clearly ain't doing nothing beyond that as of now.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

La Parka said:


> If WWE booked his return like this, people would be shitting on them endlessly.
> 
> AEW had the hottest possible free agent signing and they completely dropped the ball.
> 
> ...


Bingo, he should've had storylines mapped out for him. There's plenty of room between "make Punk champ immediately" and "have him do random heatless matches"


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

CM Punk's run started strong with his match with Darby Allin which was brilliant, but it has fallen ever since. He doesn't feel special, he doesn't feel like a big deal anymore.


----------



## TonySirico (Sep 8, 2021)

bischoff is a fucking boomer who never really understood the business anyway. he had about as much grasp as vince russo. he needs to keep talking shit to get people tuning into his shit and it's obviously working because i'm making a comment about his comments like a fucking mark.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> He's in a tough spot honestly. How does he build out from the core without alienating the core. Look at what happened with TNA back in the day. They got more eyes with Bischoff and Hogan, but most of the diehards felt betrayed. He's doing stuff that pleases his core, but clearly ain't doing nothing beyond that as of now.



except that got attention outside of die hard wrestling fans. these guys being brought in are just attracting a few hundred thousand die hards and which many of them are not even that impressed by it.

i just mean i think he needs to focus on the aew brand rather than continue to focus on endless talent and matches. thats all aew feels like now. parade of talent and matches matches matches. which means he needs to hire more people because he cant possibly do all of that. if he wants to focus on talent talent talent and matches matches matches fine but needs someone to put the promotion in direction and have creative vision.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

TonySirico said:


> bischoff is a fucking boomer who never really understood the business anyway. he had about as much grasp as vince russo. he needs to keep talking shit to get people tuning into his shit and it's obviously working because i'm making a comment about his comments like a fucking mark.


based off how new you're and your statements it proves you were not around to watch that era and have no clue what you truly are talking about. very armature lines.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

RapShepard said:


> There's nothing to actually dispute Bischoff on here. AEW produced good shows, but the signings of Punk, Bryan, and Cole haven't produced the change that most would've thought. And no the "but AEW is only 2 years old" doesn't work here. Guys like Punk, Bryan, and Cole are supposed to bring even more recognition and name value to an already bubbling brand like AEW.


But how are they gonna bring in more people though? All 3 are names that were big inside the wrestling bubble and that's the best they were going to do.


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

RapShepard said:


> This is a long horse shit post to spin his run to this point as a positive.
> 
> In our hardcore bubble every big moment is disingenuously the new "this made me love wrestling again".
> 
> ...


No disrespect, but you haven’t actually understood my point.

I’ve already answered everything you’ve stated here.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

IronMan8 said:


> No disrespect, but you haven’t actually understood my point.
> 
> I’ve already answered everything you’ve stated here.


No I understand your point, it's just a bull shit point. You're giving Punk credit for unquantifiable things because you can't actually give him credit for quantifiable progress we have access to. The reality is Tony didn't bring in Punk because he wanted you to go "hey I'll watch that Being The Elite show that makes the company no money". 



The Raw Smackdown said:


> But how are they gonna bring in more people though? All 3 are names that were big inside the wrestling bubble and that's the best they were going to do.


If I had that answer I'd be making money off one of these companies. But for AEW to be the company that fans swear is reinvigorating wrestling, it's not producing the results. It has to be acknowledged that the growth doesn't match the new names.


----------



## VodooPimpin (Oct 10, 2021)

La Parka said:


> If WWE booked his return like this, people would be shitting on them endlessly.
> 
> AEW had the hottest possible free agent signing and they completely dropped the ball.
> 
> ...


I agree that I don’t know why they are putting Cm punk with a guy that most people don’t know with Sydal and then fish. I think they missed the whole point of his return which I thought would have been to bring some excitement , and maybe some people who haven’t watched in a while and want to tune in to see CM Punk. The thing is it seems that he doesn’t have is the best in the world cocky pipe bomb type attitude this time around


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

RapShepard said:


> There's nothing to actually dispute Bischoff on here. AEW produced good shows, but the signings of Punk, Bryan, and Cole haven't produced the change that most would've thought. And no the "but AEW is only 2 years old" doesn't work here. Guys like Punk, Bryan, and Cole are supposed to bring even more recognition and name value to an already bubbling brand like AEW.


Okay, I’ll gladly take 60 seconds to do a quick google search to easily disprove Eric‘s argument lol.

I’ll even play within Eric’s proposed paradigm: the total viewership pre and post-Punk.

AEW Dynamite viewers pre-Punk rumours averaged ~750k.

AEW Dynamite viewers post-Punk rumours averaged ~1.1m.

That’s a 46% increase in total viewership of AEW’s flagship TV product pre and post-Punk rumours.

That increase had already peaked before the first Bryan or Cole tease, so they merely supported a pre-existing wave.

There.

Took me about 60 seconds.

It’s not hard to dispute a genius of the wrestling world (...let’s face it, that’s like being the nicest guy in prison, with all due respect to that game show host guy)


----------



## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

Eric isn't wrong in his assessment.

Punk claimed that his jump was bigger than Hall and Nash in WCW, yet the effects of both instances are night and day. CM Punk is lacking direction right now and the ratings haven't swung much in their favor, while Hall and Nash instantly set the wrestling world on fire with one of the hottest/ most profitable angles in history.

It's fair game for Eric to call him out on it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

AEW is the true heat wagon

all the old guys are trying to hitch it


----------



## TonySirico (Sep 8, 2021)

shandcraig said:


> based off how new you're and your statements it proves you were not around to watch that era and have no clue what you truly are talking about. very armature lines.


based on your reply(not to mention your extremely shitty grasp of the english language), i'm pretty sure you weren't there. tell me what i said that was wrong. bischoff used a billionaire's money to sign kennedy's 3 biggest draws from the 1980's and copied a japanese story line. he had no idea how to book young talent and create new stars. stunad.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

RapShepard said:


> If I had that answer I'd be making money off one of these companies. But for AEW to be the company that fans swear is *reinvigorating wrestling*, it's not producing the results. It has to be acknowledged that the growth doesn't match the new names.


For them or in General?


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

IronMan8 said:


> Okay, I’ll gladly take 60 seconds to do a quick google search to easily disprove Eric‘s argument lol.
> 
> I’ll even play within Eric’s proposed paradigm: the total viewership pre and post-Punk.
> 
> ...




Here's the monthly average of Dynamite this year with context

Dynamite Average Rating and Viewership January 2021- 753k viewership and .3 demo (new years specials and NXT competition)

Dynamite Average Rating and Viewership February 2021- 790k viewership and .31 demo

Dynamite Average Rating and Viewership March 2021- 780k viewership and .29 demo

Dynamite Average Rating and Viewership April 2021- 975k viewership and .35 demo (2nd week NXT leaves Wednesday)

Dynamite Average Rating and Viewership May 2021- 843k viewership .27 demo (NBA playoffs several Dynamites moved)

Dynamite Average Rating and Viewership June 2021- 758k viewership .22 demo (NBA Playoffs only one Wednesday Dynamite)

Dynamite Average Rating and Viewership July 2021- 1.121 viewership .4 demo (Had Fyterfest 1 and 2, Road rager, and fight for the fallen)

Dynamite Average Rating and Viewership August 2021- 1.057 viewership .41demo (Punk Dynamite debut)

Dynamite Average Rating and Viewership September 2021- 1.193 viewership .43 demo (All Out fall out show and Grand Slam in this Bryan and Cole have arrived)

Dynamite Average Rating and Viewership October 2021- 888k .32 demo (just for the 2 Dynamites we've had this month one being a Saturday show, but Punk, Bryan, and Cole are in company)

In actual context Punk, Bryan, and Cole haven't caused major gains as of yet. You're bullshitting and trying to compare covid era numbers with no fans to an era where fans where allowed and AEW got some names.



https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2...mo-rating-for-the-second-anniversary-episode/


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

TonySirico said:


> based on your reply(not to mention your extremely shitty grasp of the english language), i'm pretty sure you weren't there. tell me what i said that was wrong. bischoff used a billionaire's money to sign kennedy's 3 biggest draws from the 1980's and copied a japanese story line. he had no idea how to book young talent and create new stars. stunad.



im dyslexic, you have a problem with that ? you're claiming eric did not do a good. He managed to compete and beat wwe 3 years after taking over and a year before wwf reached the most successful peak in wrestling history to this day and you make such silly remarks like this. Success is success, no one cares weather you like it or not. to this day most of the formats that he changed in the wrestling game are still done to this day for a reason.


----------



## TonySirico (Sep 8, 2021)

KYRA BATARA said:


> Eric isn't wrong in his assessment.
> 
> Punk claimed that his jump was bigger than Hall and Nash in WCW, yet the effects of both instances are night and day. CM Punk is lacking direction right now and the ratings haven't swung much in their favor, while Hall and Nash instantly set the wrestling world on fire with one of the hottest/ most profitable angles in history.
> 
> It's fair game for Eric to call him out on it.


meanwhile at the time everyone thought hall and nash were with wwf and they were pushed so much harder than wcw wrestlers that it ended up burying their homegrown talent. bischoff is the one who needs to shut the fuck up. all that he knows is "controversy creates cash". he's a bigger mark for himself than cm punk is.


----------



## TonySirico (Sep 8, 2021)

shandcraig said:


> im dyslexic, you have a problem with that ? you're claiming eric did not do a good. He managed to compete and beat wwe 3 years after taking over and a year before wwf reached the most successful peak in wrestling history to this day and you make such silly remarks like this. Success is success, no one cares weather you like it or not. to this day most of the formats that he changed in the wrestling game are still done to this day for a reason.


do you know anything about the fucking house show gates from that era, you fucking idiot? did you know that wcw was getting consistently smoked at the gate or are you just a mark for the neilsen ratings like your boy bischoff?
get the fuck out of here with your half assed bullshit. you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

bischoff was so great that he ran some of the biggest stars of the ruthless aggression era out of his company due to his garbage booking and ass kissing of hogan. he was so great that he let vince mcmahon swoop in and buy wcw right from under his nose.

stunad.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> For them or in General?


In general


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

TonySirico said:


> do you know anything about the fucking house show gates from that era, you fucking idiot? did you know that wcw was getting consistently smoked at the gate or are you just a mark for the neilsen ratings like your boy bischoff?
> get the fuck out of here with your half assed bullshit. you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.
> 
> bischoff was so great that he ran some of the biggest stars of the ruthless aggression era out of his company due to his garbage booking and ass kissing of hogan. he was so great that he let vince mcmahon swoop in and buy wcw right from under his nose.
> ...


I'm done with you and your insult game. Your new so I'll let you figure this out first


----------



## TonySirico (Sep 8, 2021)

shandcraig said:


> I'm done with you and your insult game. Your new so I'll let you figure this out first


you're done because you have nothing insightful to add to the discussion. you're the one who started with the trash talk. i laid it on a little thicker than you, but at least i made a few points......that you have zero retort for. stunad.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

RapShepard said:


> In general


Well Then I'm more inclined to agree with you although you and everyone else really just need to ignore the AEW stans that say shit like that at this point.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> There's nothing to actually dispute Bischoff on here. AEW produced good shows, but the signings of Punk, Bryan, and Cole haven't produced the change that most would've thought. And no the "but AEW is only 2 years old" doesn't work here. Guys like Punk, Bryan, and Cole are supposed to bring even more recognition and name value to an already bubbling brand like AEW.


But they don't and they didn't in wwe. Wwe just has its own bubble and at the time they were popular with in it. Doesn't mean outside of that bubble thet are a draw or popular. No one outside of wrestling is cares about these guys.

Aew brand is just not exciting like wwe is not exciting. Tony needs to work harder to different aew but likely he just wants more die hard market


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

TonySirico said:


> based on your reply(not to mention your extremely shitty grasp of the english language), i'm pretty sure you weren't there. tell me what i said that was wrong.* bischoff used a billionaire's money to sign kennedy's 3 biggest draws from the 1980's and copied a japanese story line. he had no idea how to book young talent and create new stars. stunad.*


Agreed Bischoff is a failure. Point Blank.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well Then I'm more inclined to agree with you although you and everyone else really just need to ignore the AEW stans that say shit like that at this point.


There's nothing to ignore as I understand that it's really only being said in spaces like this. It's acknowledging both sides. AEW certainly isn't a failure like some haters would like. But it's not taking the world by storm like some Stan's would hope


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

RapShepard said:


> There's nothing to ignore as I understand that it's really only being said in spaces like this. It's acknowledging both sides. AEW certainly isn't a failure like some haters would like. But it's not taking the world by storm like some Stan's would hope


Except people keep going on and on about AEW superfans and how they overhype it. Hell there are people in that thread about SD beating AEW on Saturday that are throwing it in the faces of AEW fans because AEW didn't beat them. It's childish as hell and for what? There is something to ignore and it needs to happen more often.


----------



## TonySirico (Sep 8, 2021)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Agreed Bischoff is a failure. Point Blank.


a "genius" who "revolutionized the business" should've been able to bury kennedy and his ripping off of ecw with all of that money and all of those resources.

the guy who gave away hogan vs goldberg on free tv the same week of a ppv is getting defended on here by kids who are defending their stupidity by saying shit like "i'm dyslexic". fucking lol.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

People are just soo short sighted and impatient. Punk's story is progressing naturally.


----------



## TonySirico (Sep 8, 2021)

The Definition of Technician said:


> People are just soo short sighted and impatient. Punk's story is progressing naturally.


punk could wrestle sonny kiss for the next 3 weeks and people will still be invested. he knows it and tony knows it. he gets the loudest reaction every fucking night, he sells the most t shirts and he's making people look strong by having competitive matches with them even though he's getting the win. plus, we know aew is about wins and losses kayfabe. he's building up his record. i might be a punk mark but i think he knows what he's doing and once this "reunion tour" shit starts to get stale, he'll feel it and he'll move on to whatever is next.

if he moved into the title picture, people would be bitching about him taking hangman's spot. wrestling fans are just fucking annoying and like to complain.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

TonySirico said:


> punk could wrestle sonny kiss for the next 3 weeks and people will still be invested. he knows it and tony knows it. he gets the loudest reaction every fucking night, he sells the most t shirts and he's making people look strong by having competitive matches with them even though he's getting the win. plus, we know aew is about wins and losses kayfabe. he's building up his record. i might be a punk mark but i think he knows what he's doing and once this "reunion tour" shit starts to get stale, he'll feel it and he'll move on to whatever is next.
> 
> if he moved into the title picture, people would be bitching about him taking hangman's spot. wrestling fans are just fucking annoying and like to complain.


Exactly. I'm pretty sure Punk knows what he's doing and he's telling his comeback story.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Eric is getting a bit carried away now. If the dude was such a genius WCW would still be around.

We get it, he is the only one who beat WWE for 83 weeks. And then he got his ass handed to him. That's the part he seems to have forgotten lately.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

zkorejo said:


> Eric is getting a bit carried away now. If the dude was such a genius WCW would still be around.
> 
> We get it, he is the only one who beat WWE for 83 weeks. And then he got his ass handed to him. That's the part he seems to have forgotten lately.


he’s also forgetting his recent stint in smackdown at the top which was ‘blink and you’ll miss it’ - or how he shat the bed in TNA

y’know what they say, if you can’t do the work anymore, become a podcaster


----------



## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

Even if punk booked himself (and he is booking himself) brilliantly - straight into the main event, it wouldn't move the AEW needle. No current wrestler would ... maybe the rock


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Except people keep going on and on about AEW superfans and how they overhype it. Hell there are people in that thread about SD beating AEW on Saturday that are throwing it in the faces of AEW fans because AEW didn't beat them. It's childish as hell and for what? There is something to ignore and it needs to happen more often.


Stop it got to take the praise with the gate. When AEW gets wins or perceived wins pro the thread and section is hype. When they get losses or perceived losses the thread and sections sees negative criticism. That's logical and reasonable.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> he’s also forgetting his recent stint in smackdown at the top which was ‘blink and you’ll miss it’ - or how he shat the bed in TNA
> 
> y’know what they say, if you can’t do the work anymore, become a podcaster


I'm sure he has a new book coming out or some other project so he's making some noise to get some attention.


----------



## TonySirico (Sep 8, 2021)

zkorejo said:


> I'm sure he has a new book coming out or some other project so he's making some noise to get some attention.


imagine getting to fuck a prime kimberly page regularly and still feeling the need to run your mouth into old age. 


he must have a tiny johnson


----------



## DUD (Feb 21, 2021)

I love Eric Bischoff but I knew he'd get butt hurt over the Hogan, Hall, Nash comparison. Even in 2021 he'd still jump off a cliff if one of them asked him too.

He completely missed the point of what Punk was trying to get at by saying you'll judge how successful the run has been in five years. Punk wasn't being self-indulgent like 90%+ people in WCW were. He's suggested the next generation will be significantly better off because of what the likes of himself and Bryan are going to do to elevate them.


----------



## TonySirico (Sep 8, 2021)

Forum Dud said:


> I love Eric Bischoff but I knew he'd get butt hurt over the Hogan, Hall, Nash comparison. Even in 2021 he'd still jump off a cliff if one of them asked him too.
> 
> He completely missed the point of what Punk was trying to get at by saying you'll judge how successful the run has been in five years. Punk wasn't being self-indulgent like 90%+ people in WCW were. He's suggested the next generation will be significantly better off because of what the likes of himself and Bryan are going to do to elevate them.



what do you mean hall and nash didn't elevate talent? you mean the two of them coming out and wrecking dozens of guys every week wasn't helping the young talent? you must be some kind of mark.


----------



## DUD (Feb 21, 2021)

TonySirico said:


> what do you mean hall and nash didn't elevate talent? you mean the two of them coming out and wrecking dozens of guys every week wasn't helping the young talent? you must be some kind of mark.


I take it back. I forget Kevin Nash lost to Rey Mysterio before beating him. What a great guy.


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

RapShepard said:


> Here's the monthly average of Dynamite this year with context
> 
> Dynamite Average Rating and Viewership January 2021- 753k viewership and .3 demo (new years specials and NXT competition)
> 
> ...


You were arguing that Eric's opinion couldn't be disputed. I disputed it with the fact that viewership surged 40%+ after Punk's rumours began in July. 

Heck, in just one month, using your own numbers - from June to July - viewership jumped from 758k to 1.12m (47% increase). That's a faster surge than I originally thought. 

Thanks for clarifying that my point was stronger than I originally realised.

Punk's rumours in July led to a 47% increase in viewership over the prior month, and this has been sustained for the 3 months since (October's schedule jumping around tells us nothing, we'll know if it's continued to be sustained from next month's numbers)


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

IronMan8 said:


> You were arguing that Eric's opinion couldn't be disputed. I disputed it with the fact that viewership surged 40%+ after Punk's rumours began in July.
> 
> Heck, in just one month, using your own numbers - from June to July - viewership jumped from 758k to 1.12m (47% increase). That's a faster surge than I originally thought.
> 
> ...


No your premise falls apart drastically with actual context. You want to give massive credit to Punk, when the reality is Bischoff is right and Punk didn't cause the gain most would've thought. You disingenuously trying to say he's caused a 50% increase is as stupid as Dynamite naysayers pretending Friday/Saturday night Dynamite are normal numbers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> No your premise falls apart drastically with actual context. You want to give massive credit to Punk, when the reality is Bischoff is right and Punk didn't cause the gain most would've thought. You disingenuously trying to say he's caused a 50% increase is as stupid as Dynamite naysayers pretending Friday/Saturday night Dynamite are normal numbers.


you always said context should be ignored in ratings

’doesn’t matter if its a pandemic’ / ‘doesn’t matter if its Saturday’ / ‘Doesn’t matter what is running against it’

don’t go back on your hard line in public like this - you know a quick search can get quite a few examples


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you always said context should be ignored in ratings
> 
> ’doesn’t matter if its a pandemic’ / ‘doesn’t matter if its Saturday’ / ‘Doesn’t matter what is running against it’
> 
> don’t go back on your hard line in public like this - you know a quick search can get quite a few examples


Well if we're doing that then Punk is literally tanking the ratings this month [emoji57][emoji2379]


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

RapShepard said:


> Stop it got to take the praise with the gate. When AEW gets wins or perceived wins pro the thread and section is hype. When they get losses or perceived losses the thread and sections sees negative criticism. That's logical and reasonable.


That's not what I'm even talking about but okay.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> Well if we're doing that then Punk is literally tanking the ratings this month [emoji57][emoji2379]


lol, i can live with that if you can live with him ‘boosting them’ as @IronMan8 said


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, i can live with that if you can live with him ‘boosting them’ as @IronMan8 said


Doesn't work as that would mean AEW saw a loss by getting Punk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> Doesn't work as that would mean AEW saw a loss by getting Punk


how so?

ps> watch out, Punk vs Fish on Dynamite and the ratings will spike 

so we’ll have a live example - nothing to do with a move from Saturday to Wednesday - its all Punk


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> how so?
> 
> ps> watch out, Punk vs Fish on Dynamite and the ratings will spike
> 
> so we’ll have a live example - nothing to do with a move from Saturday to Wednesday - its all Punk


This month is currently doing 888k average on Dynamite that's down a lot from the pre-Punk 1.121 million average. 

All I know is he ain't crushing it yet


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

RapShepard said:


> This month is currently doing 888k average on Dynamite that's down a lot from the pre-Punk 1.121 million average.
> 
> All I know is he ain't crushing it yet


Is this including the Saturdays? If not, that’s ridiculously bad.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Geert Wilders said:


> Is this including the Saturdays? If not, that’s ridiculously bad.


It's only 2 Dynamites a Wednesday and Saturday lol


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

RapShepard said:


> It's only 2 Dynamites a Wednesday and Saturday lol


Ok so a massive asterisk in your post.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Geert Wilders said:


> Ok so a massive asterisk in your post.


Nope no asterisk given the conversation being had.


----------



## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

In the grand scheme of things, Punks comeback has meant nothing. Forget it being as big as the NWOs debut, it has about as much meat on the bone as, say, Visceras WWE return in 2005 had. Its a complete flop and Punk is nothing if he's not shooting against the WWE machine.


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Anyway, concerning the actual thread subject.
I said around Punk debut, that he is a B+ player.
I have not changed my mind about that. He simply cannot draw like real A+ players.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> This month is currently doing 888k average on Dynamite that's down a lot from the pre-Punk 1.121 million average.
> 
> All I know is he ain't crushing it yet


You all should start realizing it’s more objective to compare year on year .




Geert Wilders said:


> Anyway, concerning the actual thread subject.
> I said around Punk debut, that he is a B+ player.
> I have not changed my mind about that. He simply cannot draw like real A+ players.


Who are these A+ players?
Goldberg hasn’t moved the needle facing the most pushed guy of the past year, in fact RAW some of its worst viewership.

Lesnar and Cena and Reigns all barely bump between 100–200K viewers, they’re not difference makers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> This month is currently doing 888k average on Dynamite that's down a lot from the pre-Punk 1.121 million average.
> 
> All I know is he ain't crushing it yet


yeah, but when he debuted it went up from the average


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

I'm just going to merge this with your other thread


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

RapShepard said:


> No your premise falls apart drastically with actual context. You want to give massive credit to Punk, when the reality is Bischoff is right and Punk didn't cause the gain most would've thought. You disingenuously trying to say he's caused a 50% increase is as stupid as Dynamite naysayers pretending Friday/Saturday night Dynamite are normal numbers.


I used the actual numbers you provided me with.

There is a 47% surge in ratings the exact month everyone starts expecting Punk to join AEW.

It’s not a gradual increase - it’s a 1-month surge... that has been sustained for at least 3 months since.

It’s actually a pretty strong case that I haven’t seen argued elsewhere. I think we’re into something here!


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

IronMan8 said:


> I used the actual numbers you provided me with.
> 
> There is a 47% surge in ratings the exact month everyone starts expecting Punk to join AEW.
> 
> ...


Nah that's fans returning doing the number.


----------



## Dark Emperor (Jul 31, 2007)

Punk was never a massive draw. This is why WWE never made him that 'too good to refuse offer' to return for all those years despite being desperate for stars.

It's no surprise after a couple of weeks bump, the rating is lower than before he arrived and the show he wrestles on getting record low numbers week after week.


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Punk is a flop. He was never the guy anywhere unless to the small number of hardcores who saw him as "anti-establishment". In a company where everyone does whatever they want, he can´t be "anti-establishment" and everybody knows it. Punk sold out.


----------



## RogueSlayer (Mar 31, 2021)

His return has been boring, was excited that they signed him but I've completely switched off from AEW because of how boring old washed up Cm Punk and the show is.


----------



## The.Great.One (May 5, 2014)

From the perspective of someone who doesn't watch AEW, and doesn't really like Punk I can say that I've seen almost no major news pop up on any of my feeds (following 'Wrestling' for example on Google interests) and all I see is articles critiquing his current role or discussing a match he had with someone I've never heard of - So in essence I vote flop. 

BUT at the same time, I think his role is healthy - He's come back from a long break, is wrestling guys low/mid-card guys outside of the skinny guy with face paint (mid card or higher?) instead of being rushed into the title picture which is probably full with talent AEW took on before Punk.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Smark1995 said:


> Wait ... Now Punk Feuds with 45-year-old Jobber from NXT? Guys who voted no in the poll - it's not too late to admit that I was right and change the vote.
> You must be able to admit your mistakes


*It's funny how the narrative is "Let things play out." when we were told that he and Bryan would have them in the 1.3-1.5 range instantly. Meanwhille, the last Wednesday show number was worse than summer of Britt.*


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

RapShepard said:


> Nah that's fans returning doing the number.


The number went above the previous level they did with fans, so it’s not just fans.

The Punk rumours directly created a buzz and increased ratings literally as it happened. The timing you’re suggesting is far less clearcut and vague than the Punk timing I’m suggesting, which was very obviously the main cause.

Do you remember the CM Punk buzz?

I don’t have time to do a week-by-week breakdown and don’t care, but even if both of what we’re saying coincides together, you have to admit the CM Punk buzz significantly contributes to the 47% increase in ratings.

Without even checking, I’m sure WWE’s ratings didn’t increase by 47%.

How much did WWE’s ratings increase? Maybe we could use that as the baseline, then attribute the rest to Punk? (WWE’s transition was sharper though, as AEW had 25% capacity for 3 months or so previous compared to the thunderdome). WWE’s crowds returned on July 17, MITB, I believe.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

IronMan8 said:


> The number went above the previous level they did with fans, so it’s not just fans.
> 
> The Punk rumours directly created a buzz and increased ratings literally as it happened. The timing you’re suggesting is far less clearcut and vague than the Punk timing I’m suggesting, which was very obviously the main cause.
> 
> ...


Return of crowds and move to the road saw a boost away from the sub million numbers. Punk then provided a small to moderate boost onto that. To say Punk increased viewership is false you and I both know it. It doesn't make him a scrub, he's just not the game changer folk thought he could be. We all know covid was hampering numbers


----------



## The real Axel (May 20, 2006)

Yeah hard to disagree. I'm definitely what would be called a casual fan these days. From WWE I only watched Wrestlemania, Summerslam and the 2 title matches from Crown Jewel this year, and from AEW I skimmed through All Out to see Punk's debut and Omega/Christian (used to be a big fan of both). I still keep up to date with AEW news now and then but hearing about Punk fighting all these no names does absolutely nothing for me and I will not be watching.

Same kind of deal with Sting who was my all time favourite. Watched the debut street fight out of intrigue but then hear he's doing TV matches against Scorpio Sky and some other guy in a tag match and I'm like nah not for me.


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

RapShepard said:


> Return of crowds and move to the road saw a boost away from the sub million numbers. Punk then provided a small to moderate boost onto that. To say Punk increased viewership is false you and I both know it. It doesn't make him a scrub, he's just not the game changer folk thought he could be. We all know covid was hampering numbers


I didn’t think you were a troll, but I will assume you’re a troll now as that’s better than the alternative explanation.


----------



## TheGreatBanana (Jul 7, 2012)

IronMan8 said:


> I didn’t think you were a troll, but I will assume you’re a troll now as that’s better than the alternative explanation.


How is he a troll if he is providing other credible reasons for the increase of viewership. WWE also increased in viewership due to the fact that fans returned and they were touring again. The return of the fans has got more to do with viewership than Punk.

Whatever buzz Punk created is no longer around. Rampage which is practically Punk’s show now and has saw a major decline in viewership since his debut. Punk hasn’t got the drawing power that he is expected to have. He’s been exaggerated over the years. What’s worse is whatever starpower he had AEW has reduced him to wrestling nobody’s on free TV. WWE doesn’t do that with Brock, they’re very careful in how they book Lesnar. Punk is meant to be AEW’s top attraction and they’re ruining whatever value has. Punk’s return would’ve been far better handled in WWE.


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

TheGreatBanana said:


> How is he a troll if he is providing other credible reasons for the increase of viewership. WWE also increased in viewership due to the fact that fans returned and they were touring again. The return of the fans has got more to do with viewership than Punk.
> 
> Whatever buzz Punk created is no longer around. Rampage which is practically Punk’s show now and has saw a major decline in viewership since his debut. Punk hasn’t got the drawing power that he is expected to have. He’s been exaggerated over the years. What’s worse is whatever starpower he had AEW has reduced him to wrestling nobody’s on free TV. WWE doesn’t do that with Brock, they’re very careful in how they book Lesnar. Punk is meant to be AEW’s top attraction and they’re ruining whatever value has. Punk’s return would’ve been far better handled in WWE.


If you listen to The Fix you might recognise this kind of back and forth was recently articulated. The best thing to do when someone isn’t thinking about your argument is to either repeat your overlooked points or back away. It’s a waste of time to get sucked in when you’re not being heard, just because there’s a follow-up doesn’t mean the exchange moves forward.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

IronMan8 said:


> I didn’t think you were a troll, but I will assume you’re a troll now as that’s better than the alternative explanation.


No you're just salty you have no actual proof to provide that Punk has been a massive draw for AEW viewership. That's not my issue, that's your issue. Your disingenuously trying to pretend covid numbers are the norm to pretend he caused a 50% viewership increase and that's simply not true. We all know it's not. Face facts, they've barely moved the viewership and ratings needle despite the signings

Numbers before his arrival once fans and touring resumed don't lie

Dynamite Average Rating and Viewership June 2021- 758k viewership .22 demo (NBA Playoffs only one Wednesday Dynamite)

Dynamite Average Rating and Viewership July 2021- 1.121 viewership .4 demo (Had Fyterfest 1 and 2, Road rager, and fight for the fallen)

Dynamite Average Rating and Viewership August 2021- 1.057 viewership .41demo (Punk Dynamite debut)

Dynamite Average Rating and Viewership September 2021- 1.193 viewership .43 demo (All Out fall out show and Grand Slam in this Bryan and Cole have arrived)

Dynamite Average Rating and Viewership October 2021- 888k .32 demo (just for the 2 Dynamites we've had this month 1 being a Saturday show, but Punk, Bryan, and Cole are in company)


In actual context Punk, Bryan, and Cole haven't caused major gains as of yet. You're bullshitting and trying to compare covid era numbers with no fans to an era were fans where allowed and AEW got some names. 









AEW Dynamite Viewership Down From Last Week, Big Drop In Key Demo Rating


Wednesday's live Second Anniversary edition of AEW Dynamite drew 1.053 million viewers on TNT, according to Showbuzz Daily. This is down 8.59% from last week's…




 www.wrestlinginc.com


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

RapShepard said:


> No you're just salty you have no actual proof to provide that Punk has been a massive draw for AEW viewership. That's not my issue, that's your issue. Your disingenuously trying to pretend covid numbers are the norm to pretend he caused a 50% viewership increase and that's simply not true. We all know it's not. Face facts, they've barely moved the viewership and ratings needle despite the signings
> 
> Numbers before his arrival once fans and touring resumed don't lie
> 
> ...


WWE’s viewership *increased by only 10% *for the first week, then it was only up by *only 5% or less* in the weeks afterwards.

AEW *surged* *by 47%* and stayed there for *3+ months.*

How do you reconcile your explanation with the above?


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Smark1995 said:


> Wait ... Now Punk Feuds with 45-year-old Jobber from NXT? Guys who voted no in the poll - it's not too late to admit that I was right and change the vote.
> You must be able to admit your mistakes


Except that you (along with the rest who voted yes) were never “right” at all to begin with here, and you look absolutely ridiculous for claiming that CM Punk’s run a “flop” when he hasn’t even been with this company for a full 3 months yet. 

Hell, just look at the poll results where the 61% of voters who get it completely disagree with you. Why are you and that other dude ignoring those hundred+ people who say otherwise?

We aren’t admitting anything to you. If anything, we can just bump this thread over a year from now to laugh at you once CM Punk finally enters the world title picture to kill it in the main-event scene.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

IronMan8 said:


> WWE’s viewership *increased by only 10% *for the first week, then it was only up by *only 5% or less* in the weeks afterwards.
> 
> AEW *surged* *by 47%* and stayed there for *3+ months.*
> 
> How do you reconcile your explanation with the above?


Again you're talking no fans no touring covid numbers vs numbers with fans and touring (with out even showing numbers) you're full of it salty Punk didn't provide a big bump


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

RapShepard said:


> Again you're talking no fans no touring covid numbers vs numbers with fans and touring (with out even showing numbers) you're full of it salty Punk didn't provide a big bump


Do you listen to The Fix and you’re intentionally doing that? If so, that’s pretty funny, otherwise I‘ll just say I feel my point hasn’t been heard as closely as I’d like.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

DammitChrist said:


> Except that you (along with the rest who voted yes) were never “right” at all to begin with here, and you look absolutely ridiculous for claiming that CM Punk’s run a “flop” when he hasn’t even been with this company for a full 3 months yet.
> 
> Hell, just look at the poll results where the 61% of voters who get it completely disagree with you. Why are you and that other dude ignoring those hundred+ people who say otherwise?
> 
> We aren’t admitting anything to you. If anything, we can just bump this thread over a year from now to laugh at you once CM Punk finally enters the world title picture to kill it in the main-event scene.


"In a year from now when he's finally doing something" isn't a great example of how good his run is going


IronMan8 said:


> Do you listen to The Fix and you’re intentionally doing that? If so, that’s pretty funny, otherwise I‘ll just say I feel my point hasn’t been heard as closely as I’d like.


What are you babbling about in trying to explain how Punk actually is a big ratings draw


----------



## Nothing Finer (Apr 12, 2017)

I don't get this shit at all. They call him THE BEST IN THE WORLD at every opportunity and he's having competitive matches with Bobby fucking Fish?! Is that the level that Bobby Fish is at - near best in the world?


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

RapShepard said:


> "In a year from now when he's finally doing something" isn't a great example of how good his run is going


Dude, you know when was the last time that a major star returned to wrestling in a semi-frequent basis after being away for 7+ years?

It was Brock Lesnar in April 2012. 

He had a rough start booking-wise in the beginning, but he was eventually presented like an unstoppable dominant monster by April 2014 after he ended the Undertaker's Streak. 

I guarantee you that if this same thread was made about Lesnar in June 2012 (a couple of months after his return) or even within that same calendar year, the majority of folks on here would be calling his run a major "flop."

However, Lesnar eventually went on to receive what is arguably the strongest push out of anybody on the roster just a couple of years later in 2014 until now. He's only rivaled by the current Universal Champion on that department. I definitely wouldn't call Lesnar's 2nd WWE run to be a "flop" at all.

It's just plain ridiculous to claim that CM Punk's run is already a "flop." The dude has even yet to sniff the world title picture, and he wants to take his time before he's involved in major main-event programs (which I respect completely because Punk does not want to under-deliver in the main-event scene). 

You'll have a MUCH better idea of how Punk's run turns out a couple years from now. After all, It took Lesnar a couple of years to erase any doubts of his 2nd run.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, you know when was the last time that a major star returned to wrestling in a semi-frequent basis after being away for 7+ years?
> 
> It was Brock Lesnar in April 2012.
> 
> ...


Nobody is saying Punk's run can't turn around and become great. But as of now it fucking sucks for anybody that isn't being fake positive. Nobody wanted Punk to come back to wrestling to fool around with fuckers like Matt Sydal and Bobby Fish. AEW is an entertaining wrestling promotion so eventually they'll get him on point. But as of now his return is a drag and let down


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

RapShepard said:


> Nobody is saying Punk's run can't turn around and become great. But as of now it fucking sucks for anybody that isn't being fake positive. Nobody wanted Punk to come back to wrestling to fool around with fuckers like Matt Sydal and Bobby Fish. AEW is an entertaining wrestling promotion so eventually they'll get him on point. But as of now his return is a drag and let down


You'll turn that frown upside-down by next year! 

I'm just grateful that the guy is even back.

You already have Bryan Danielson working as the new top star who's involved near the main-event picture.

Let CM Punk climb his way to the top since he's been away for so long.

It allows names like Adam Page, MJF, Darby Allin, Malakai Black, Pac, and Andrade El Idolo to step up in the meantime.

I'm sure the 39% will end up eating crow anyway once Punk is finally ready to take on more big names. 

I was patient with Christian Cage, and he ended up being part of 2 bangers with Kenny Omega just 5-6 months into his full-time return to wrestling.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

DammitChrist said:


> You'll turn that frown upside-down by next year!
> 
> I'm just grateful that the guy is even back.
> 
> ...


Save the fluff for somebody buying it. His run as of now sucks and nobody will be discussing it in future Punk documentaries


----------



## Nothing Finer (Apr 12, 2017)

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, you know when was the last time that a major star returned to wrestling in a semi-frequent basis after being away for 7+ years?
> 
> It was Brock Lesnar in April 2012.
> 
> ...


You can't compare them. In April 2012 Brock Lesnar was 35 years old and was having main event matches with huge stars like John Cena and Triple H over the course of a year. During that year he was the main event. There was a Monday Night Raw entitled "Monday Night Raw Starring Brock Lesnar", he was breaking Triple H's arm, killing Vince etc.

CM Punk is 43 and having matches with Bobby Fish, Matt Sydel and Powerhouse Hobbs. Apparently he's up against another nothing character in Wardlow at the next PPV. 

While I agree that it's too early to call Punk a flop, Brock Lesnar had a lot more time on his side and was booked like a much bigger star. AEW are burning up the goodwill Punk has much, much faster


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

RapShepard said:


> Save the fluff for somebody buying it. His run as of now sucks and nobody will be discussing it in future Punk documentaries


61% and over 100s of folks who voted say otherwise.

Punk's run doesn't "suck" at all


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> Save the fluff for somebody buying it. His run as of now sucks and nobody will be discussing it in future Punk documentaries


Always impatient Rap and you miss whats the right infront because you can’t look further than your nose.

Miro’s just the proof you need. He never looked weak even as he was teaming with Kip and ya’ll were pretending he wasn’t credible. 

Punk has has positive effect on ratings, you just looking to cherry pick what you want to compare it to for a “gotcha” moment. 

Deal with it.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Definition of Technician said:


> Always impatient Rap and you miss whats the right infront because you can’t look further than your nose.
> 
> Miro’s just the proof you need. He never looked weak even as he was teaming with Kip and ya’ll were pretending he wasn’t credible.
> 
> ...


Miro spent almost a full term pregnancy being shitty. His solo run was gold no doubt, but the first 9 months trash. Now he's back to ehhh


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> Miro spent almost a full term pregnancy being shitty. His solo run was gold no doubt, but the first 9 months trash. Now he's back to ehhh


But he never look weak and you could see the writing on the wall for the beast that was unleashed. He was dominating OC after his feud with Jericho. It was taking 4-5 men in battle royal to damage him. He was winning all his matches convincingly.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Definition of Technician said:


> But he never look weak and you could see the writing on the wall for the beast that was unleashed. He was dominating OC after his feud with Jericho. It was taking 4-5 men in battle royal to damage him. He was winning all his matches convincingly.


Let's keep it a buck Miro's AEW peak and Rusev's WWE peak are similar. It's just Rusev had a longer run of dominance and fell to a star in Cena unlike Miro who fell to Sammy Guevara . 

I mean what I put above, but I will say Miro is a fun midcard character and has some stories to tell in AEW


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

The Definition of Technician said:


> But he never look weak and you could see the writing on the wall for the beast that was unleashed. He was dominating OC after his feud with Jericho. It was taking 4-5 men in battle royal to damage him. He was winning all his matches convincingly.


*No one looks "weak" in AEW because they stat pad on YouTube and every bum off the street goes 15 minutes with top guys. Matt Sydal has a negative record on television, but they constantly brag about his YouTube wins that no one sees during pre match reels because they know he's viewed as a jobber. Miro was a complete joke before the redeemer gimmick.*


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

The Legit DMD said:


> *No one looks "weak" in AEW because they stat pad on YouTube and every bum off the street goes 15 minutes with top guys. Matt Sydal has a negative record on television, but they constantly brag about his YouTube wins that no one sees during pre match reels because they know he's viewed as a jobber. Miro was a complete joke before the redeemer gimmick.*


They should do that to lower cards like Sydal so they have a reason to appear to Dynamite. But Miro was always untouchable before. He taggs in, he dominates, he attacks and he destroys, in multi-man matches it look Wardlow/MJF + others to take him down even in his “Gamer” gimmick. He was always a threat waiting to be unleashed



RapShepard said:


> Let's keep it a buck Miro's AEW peak and Rusev's WWE peak are similar. It's just Rusev had a longer run of dominance and fell to a star in Cena unlike Miro who fell to Sammy Guevara .
> 
> I mean what I put above, but I will say Miro is a fun midcard character and has some stories to tell in AEW



You can’t just compare peaks. We compare bottoms and time spent doing nothing on TV 😉


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Dude, you know when was the last time that a major star returned to wrestling in a semi-frequent basis after being away for 7+ years?

It was Brock Lesnar in April 2012.

He had a rough start booking-wise in the beginning, but he was eventually presented like an unstoppable dominant monster by April 2014 after he ended the Undertaker's Streak.

I guarantee you that if this same thread was made about Lesnar in June 2012 (a couple of months after his return) or even within that same calendar year, the majority of folks on here would be calling his run a major "flop."

However, Lesnar eventually went on to receive what is arguably the strongest push out of anybody on the roster just a couple of years later in 2014 until now. He's only rivaled by the current Universal Champion on that department. I definitely wouldn't call Lesnar's 2nd WWE run to be a "flop" at all.

It's just plain ridiculous to claim that CM Punk's run is already a "flop." The dude has even yet to sniff the world title picture, and he wants to take his time before he's involved in major main-event programs (which I respect completely because Punk does not want to under-deliver in the main-event scene).

You'll have a MUCH better idea of how Punk's run turns out a couple years from now. After all, It took Lesnar a couple of years to erase any doubts of his 2nd run.
[/QUOTE]


Why are you obsessing over his actual matches, put that aside for a second. What is he doing that is even close to anything exciting as a personality? He's not exciting and all people talk about is the pipe bomb. So besides work rate when he was younger I don't think anyone has much om this guy. He's a decent talker but there isn't prove of range on him.

Just Work rate alone hasn't gotten anyone In the business far. They all had a persona,character ect. Now of course his pipe bomb persona got him far in wwe but that is one storyline.


And again your comparison to Brock is again based on his persona/character


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## Sterling Golden (Oct 18, 2021)

A debut is an introduction of a wrestler. The fact that Cm Punk could be having good storylines two years from now doesn't change the fact that his introduction has been worse than Bret Harts WCW introduction.


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## Greatsthegreats (Apr 15, 2015)

the fact that he came back at all undermines his entire philosophy, the sell out


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> Let's keep it a buck Miro's AEW peak and Rusev's WWE peak are similar. It's just Rusev had a *longer run of dominance and fell to a star in Cena *unlike Miro who fell to Sammy Guevara .
> 
> I mean what I put above, but I will say Miro is a fun midcard character and has some stories to tell in AEW


As if Cena ever needed that win. You shouldn't be defending that move. Cena shouldn't have ended Rusev at Mania, or Wade Barrett and the entire Nexus, or Bray Wyatt.

Miro losing to Sammy does alot more for Sammy than it ever did for Cena. Cena was an already established star who just needed a WM win because he wasn't in the title picture maybe (can't remember). Miro losing to Sammy gives Sammy alot of credibility.

Isnt that the right way to book younger guys?


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

zkorejo said:


> As if Cena ever needed that win. You shouldn't be defending that move. Cena shouldn't have ended Rusev at Mania, or Wade Barrett and the entire Nexus, or Bray Wyatt.
> 
> Miro losing to Sammy does alot more for Sammy than it ever did for Cena. Cena was an already established star who just needed a WM win because he wasn't in the title picture maybe (can't remember). Miro losing to Sammy gives Sammy alot of credibility.
> 
> Isnt that the right way to book younger guys?


If we're talking about the person losing's side it's much better to lose to Cena than Sammy.

As far as Sammy they're not doing much of praise with his TNT title run yet.


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> If we're talking about the person losing's side it's much better to lose to Cena than Sammy.
> 
> As far as Sammy they're not doing much of praise with his TNT title run yet.


No my point is, Cena didn't need that win. It did nothing for him. 

Sammy got a great title win moment from beating Miro. 

His reign, however it may turn out to be is another topic.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

zkorejo said:


> No my point is, Cena didn't need that win. It did nothing for him.
> 
> Sammy got a great title win moment from beating Miro.
> 
> His reign, however it may turn out to be is another topic.


But your point is irrelevant to how it looks for Miro. 

Rusev's first singles loss came to John Cena a former world champion and multiple time Mania main eventer at that point. 

Miro's first singles loss came to Sammy Guevara the Robin of the Inner Circle. 

One is a loss that looks good for the villain the other is ehh


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> But your point is irrelevant to how it looks for Miro.
> 
> Rusev's first singles loss came to John Cena a former world champion and multiple time Mania main eventer at that point.
> 
> ...


Your point is it didn't hurt Miro. But it helped nobody. Had Rusev won that match, he would have benefited from it. Just like Sammy did from him. 

Losing to Sammy didn't hurt Miro either. But it helped Sammy.

An established star should help build future stars.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

zkorejo said:


> Your point is it didn't hurt Miro. But it helped nobody. Had Rusev won that match, he would have benefited from it. Just like Sammy did from him.
> 
> Losing to Sammy didn't hurt Miro either. But it helped Sammy.
> 
> An established star should help build future stars.


No my initial point was let's not jerk off AEW runs, Miro is fun but he's pretty much at the same point he was as og run Rusev, except OG Rusev lost his streak to an actual star. 

After this shitty ATT feud Sammy does need a good feud over the belt tho.


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> No my initial point was let's not jerk off AEW runs, Miro is fun but he's pretty much at the same point he was as og run Rusev, except OG Rusev lost his streak to an actual star.
> 
> After this shitty ATT feud Sammy does need a good feud over the belt tho.


He lost to a star and gained nothing. It established that he's not a main event player because John was the absolute ceiling at the time. 

Miro put over Sammy and it helped Sammy. 

Yes I agree Sammy needs a good solo feud for the TNT title. But his reign just started, let's see how it turns out.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

zkorejo said:


> He lost to a star and gained nothing. It established that he's not a main event player because John was the absolute ceiling at the time.
> 
> Miro put over Sammy and it helped Sammy.
> 
> Yes I agree Sammy needs a good solo feud for the TNT title. But his reign just started, let's see how it turns out.


That's the logic with Cena and WWE I don't and will never get. Losing to Cena the tippy top is a burial there. But losing to somebody with no credibility is fine because it helps them.


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> That's the logic with Cena and WWE I don't and will never get. Losing to Cena the tippy top is a burial there. But losing to somebody with no credibility is fine because it helps them.


Admittedly Sammy wasn't red hot or anything but he has been consistently over with crowds as a babyface. He has been prominently featured in every match/feud he's been involved with or without Jericho and has been doing pretty good. 

I personally would have had him lose the first match and win the rematch but he got a huge pop for that win.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

zkorejo said:


> Admittedly Sammy wasn't red hot or anything but he has been consistently over with crowds as a babyface. He has been prominently featured in every match/feud he's been involved with or without Jericho and has been doing pretty good.
> 
> I personally would have had him lose the first match and win the rematch but he got a huge pop for that win.


I don't have an issue with either loss outside of shit talk. I just find it weird how losing to a bonafide legend in Cena is treated as a negative. But other losses are A-okay. Like in an actual combat sports imagine that logic. Losing to a champ makes you a scrub, but losing to regional riff raff doesn't lol


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> I don't have an issue with either loss outside of shit talk. I just find it weird how losing to a bonafide legend in Cena is treated as a negative. But other losses are A-okay. Like in an actual combat sports imagine that logic. Losing to a champ makes you a scrub, but losing to regional riff raff doesn't lol


It's because Cena gained absolutely nothing from these wins. Cena remained Cena. He always overcomes odds. 

You build a heel for 2 months then Bam... Cena wins Lol. I mean it got repetitive and boring. And it started to become much more annoying when Cena turned from a guy rising to the top beating established stars, to WWE producing new guys just to feed Cena. It got boring, predictable and repetitive.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

zkorejo said:


> It's because Cena gained absolutely nothing from these wins. Cena remained Cena. He always overcomes odds.
> 
> You build a heel for 2 months then Bam... Cena wins Lol. I mean it got repetitive and boring. And it started to become much more annoying when Cena turned from a guy rising to the top beating established stars, to WWE producing new guys just to feed Cena. It got boring, predictable and repetitive.


For me I just thought of it as the alternative as well what do you have him put over everybody, then that doesn't exactly help anybody either similar to how beating Jericho and Kane didn't mean much after a while.


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> For me I just thought of it as the alternative as well what do you have him put over everybody, then that doesn't exactly help anybody either similar to how beating Jericho and Kane didn't mean much after a while.


Rock lost all the time man... He still was the top dog. 

Austin was much more protected, but even he lost alot more in his career than Cena. 

It's not the win/loss record, it's fixed, nobody cares. It's the story that matters. If it makes sense for one wrestler to lose to another because it makes the other guy look credible than you have two stars that can go back and forth. Makes for a good story you are trying to tell.

Nobody will take you for an underdog if you win ever ppv match for a decade.

Jericho/Kane losing all the time was just as stupid just at the other end of the spectrum. Balance is key, you build then you make them lose. Then you give them credibility back. That's how every wrestler should be booked. Regardless if they are a top face. 

No wonder they didn't make many stars during CenaWinsLol era. They still are relying on AE guys. Because the only 5 other names that made a name for themselves were Punk, Bryan, Batista, Orton and Edge. 

And we all know Punk and Bryan popularity forced Vince's hand on their push otherwise they would have been treated the same as Umaga and Barrett and countless others.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

zkorejo said:


> Rock lost all the time man... He still was the top dog.
> 
> Austin was much more protected, but even he lost alot more in his career than Cena.
> 
> ...


Yeah but at a point it became pretty much everybody allegedly should've beat Cena. I think like a Barrett should've beat Cena. But a Rusev was fucked regardless because win streak characters are fucked once they lose anyway.


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> Yeah but at a point it became pretty much everybody allegedly should've beat Cena. I think like a Barrett should've beat Cena. But a Rusev was fucked regardless because win streak characters are fucked once they lose anyway.


I agree. I don't think Rusev should have won either. Wasn't ready for that kind of rub anyways. But then don't have him feud with Cena. 

I was mad about Barrett, Wyatt (Cult) and Ryder.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

TonySirico said:


> bischoff is a fucking boomer who never really understood the business anyway. he had about as much grasp as vince russo. he needs to keep talking shit to get people tuning into his shit and it's obviously working because i'm making a comment about his comments like a fucking mark.


Never really understood the business but was the first and only man to ever beat Vince McMahon.



TonySirico said:


> he had no idea how to book young talent and create new stars. stunad.
















































---

To not embarrass you I'm not counting the careers he improved either such as Steiner, Hogan, Outsiders etc.


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## TonySirico (Sep 8, 2021)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Never really understood the business but was the first and only man to ever beat Vince McMahon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol it's really easy to post pictures.

let's start with goldberg. young? no. got over organically but we can give bischoff a win here

ddp was in his 40s lol.

sting was over before bischoff. sting was being pushed as their hogan in the late 80s.

big show- a guy that size would have gotten top billings everywhere and what did bischoff do for him? jobbed him out to hogan and made him look like a doofus every which way. turned him into a smoker and alcoholic lmao.

benoit- ran him out of the company. gave him that world title for a night bc he thought it would make him stay. it didn't. had to come up with some convoluted ass bullshit reason like his foot was under a rope to get the title off him after he signed with kennedy.

improved hall and nash how? financially. they were on daytime tv talkshows before wcw. they became hogan's lackeys until nash got the book and totally screwed up your boy goldberg.

so you didn't really embarrass anyone but yourself, stunad.

jericho, benoit, eddie guerrero, rey mysterio, dean malenko, booker t, public enemy, yuji nagata, chono, muta all say hi.

keep being smug though. it's a good look for you. fucking lol

bischoff understood the business so much that he was gifted the man coming off the hottest work in wrestling history and totally dropped the ball.

cliffs: you're dumb.


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## BlueEyedDevil (Dec 26, 2019)

Punk made a big return but his act has limited shelf life considering the amount he is being paid.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

TonySirico said:


> lol it's really easy to post pictures.
> 
> let's start with goldberg. young? no. got over organically but we can give bischoff a win here
> 
> ...


Goldberg was only 31 when he debuted in WCW, is that considered old?

DDP was in his 40's but he was what you call TV young meaning he was new and fresh to TV audiences. Batista was late thirties when he got his big push with WWE but you didn't see anyone calling him an old star, do you?

Sting reached the peak of his fame during Eric Bischoff's run in charge. AEW uses the gimmick to this day despite it being 25 years later, that's how good Eric's use of Sting was.

Giant was booked just as well as he was in WWE tbh.

Benoit wasn't given the belt by Bischoff but Bischoff's booking got him to the point where people would accept that. Dude was a star.

Nash and Hall are most known for the nWo, that was proven when Vince brought back the nWo in 2002 instead of Diesel and Razor. Yes, they were famous before joining WCW but Bischoff took them to the next level as opposed to guys like Tony Khan who have signed big stars and had them decline in fame...

As for your young guys, lets assess those one by one:

Jericho - Has openly admitted he wasn't ready for a main event run in WCW when he was there.

Benoit - Reached the top, became a Horseman, multi time champion etc.

Eddie - Nowhere near ready for a main event run during his time in WCW, he started becoming the huge deal he was near the end of his life around 2003-2004. 

Rey - Was nowhere near ready.

Booker T - Actually technically reached the top under the watch of Bischoff and Russo as well, lol.

Public Enemy - Were good simply as a regional act and could never reach the heights of their 2-3 year run with Heyman ever again.

Nagata, Chono and Muta - Commitments were with NJPW and Japanese wrestlers never get over with American audiences. None of these guys had main event potential in WCW especially with the likes of Hogan, Sting, Savage, Hall, Nash, Luger etc running around.

You are right that Eric dropped the ball on Bret but Bret has said himself that he wasn't exactly motivated during his WCW run.


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

zkorejo said:


> Rock lost all the time man... He still was the top dog.
> 
> Austin was much more protected, but even he lost alot more in his career than Cena.


As a top guy no way.

Austins run on top 98-2003 he only lost clean twice, once to HHH at NWO 2001, which btw was treated more as fluke and on his final match to Rock at WM19.

Rock lost but rarely clean. Lesnar and Goldberg were two times but again he was on his way out both times. Vast majority of his other losses were by interference or distraction. 

Cena in 2008 on ppv lost clean more times than Rock and Austin (as top guys) combined I suspect. HHH, JBL, Batista and Orton all pinned Cena clean as a whistle.

And btw wrestling 101 is build up monster heel, have them beat everyone then top baby takes them down, then heel leaves territory or drops into midcard if under long contract. This was the way its been for 100 years. It was during Brunos run (Monsoon), Hogan (Bundy, Andre, Studd, Quake), Austin (Kane, Taker).

1/3 of the entire UK population watched top mega babyface Big Daddy beat monster heel Giant Haystacks on ITV in 1980.


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## cai1981 (Oct 2, 2016)

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, you know when was the last time that a major star returned to wrestling in a semi-frequent basis after being away for 7+ years?
> 
> It was Brock Lesnar in April 2012.
> 
> ...


Lesnar came in to HUGE fanfare and had huge booking. Yeah, he lost his first match to Cena, but he looked like a beast in the match and it may have very well been asked to lose to prove his commitment to the business as he left because he was disinterested. After that, he tapped Triple H out and won 2 of the 3 in their trilogy. After the HHH loss at WM 29, he didn't get pinned or submitted for 2 and a half years when he passed out in Undertaker's Hell's Gate after a screwy finish.

Punk came back, made (not so) subtle remarks about WWE (which have very little impact on an AEW show because everyone from the top stars to jobbers and journey people take digs at WWE EVERY SHOW), gave out ice cream bars, beat little Darby in Chicago and has wrestled 15 minute matches with low midcarders and jobbers ever since....REAL IMPRESSIVE!


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## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

cai1981 said:


> Lesnar came in to HUGE fanfare and had huge booking. Yeah, he lost his first match to Cena, but he looked like a beast in the match and it may have very well been asked to lose to prove his commitment to the business as he left because he was disinterested. After that, he tapped Triple H out and won 2 of the 3 in their trilogy. After the HHH loss at WM 29, he didn't get pinned or submitted for 2 and a half years when he passed out in Undertaker's Hell's Gate after a screwy finish.
> 
> Punk came back, made (not so) subtle remarks about WWE (which have very little impact on an AEW show because everyone from the top stars to jobbers and journey people take digs at WWE EVERY SHOW), gave out ice cream bars, beat little Darby in Chicago and has wrestled 15 minute matches with low midcarders and jobbers ever since....REAL IMPRESSIVE!


CM Punk has STILL yet to lose a match so far, and is still one of the most over men on the show (which he'll continue to be even more over once he faces more top talents), so they must be doing something right then


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## cai1981 (Oct 2, 2016)

DammitChrist said:


> CM Punk has STILL yet to lose a match so far, and is still one of the most over men on the show (which he'll continue to be even more over once he faces more top talents), so they must be doing something right then


Matches are pre-determined and he is over because of all he did prior to AEW. He has done absolutely nothing of note in AEW except give out ice cream bars and take jabs at WWE. 

Ratings have plummeted and since Darby has faced nothing but jobbers. I din't want to hear about him having to work off rust because the guy is blown up every match....even against Bobby Fish who is older than him and is in far better shape. He has to work much harder to get in that "wrestling shape" (which he clearly isn't doing) because he doesn't have a house show loop to work 3-4x a week like if he was in WWE. Merely wrestling a jobber once every other week isn't going to cut it.


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