# Cody wins TNT title for 3rd time



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Cody’a been a face acting like a heel for years.

Im starting to get the feeling hes just really tone deaf and isn’t ever going to turn heel.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

La Parka said:


> Cody’a been a face acting like a heel for years.
> 
> Im starting to get the feeling hes just really tone deaf and isn’t ever going to turn heel.


He isn’t tone deaf. He just knows that by staying a face who acts like a heel, he gets to play both sides of the fence to remain as relevant as possible.

And it just buries anyone’s gimmick that he works opposite, because he’s both the cool heel and the babyface to both sets of fans: those who cheer the heel and those who cheer the baby.

Fuck this guy sucks, man.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

He's set to beat ric flairs world championship record


----------



## HeBrokehimintwo22 (Dec 18, 2021)

Lol typical Cody "HHH" Rhodes.


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

Cody rules. Suck on dat.


----------



## KingofKings1524 (Aug 27, 2007)

Cody is the biggest heel in wrestling right now. And it’s fucking hysterical.


----------



## Upstart474 (May 13, 2018)

shandcraig said:


> He's set to beat ric flairs world championship record


It would be funny if Cody Rhodes becomes the Charlotte Flair of AEW. The Flairs don't have say so in booking but Cody does since he is EVP.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

La Parka said:


> Cody’a been a face acting like a heel for years.
> 
> Im starting to get the feeling hes just really tone deaf and isn’t ever going to turn heel.


I think it's clearly intentional at this point. A way to get real heel heat.


----------



## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

he's winning the secondary title and not even beating people of consequence. Does anybody really care or is this just a f cody thing?


----------



## Jnewt (Jan 12, 2018)

He is my only complaint from AEW. I love the show top to bottom but it's just become a meme at this point. Over 3 years and the only people he's put over is MJF, Jericho, and Darby. And Darby is debatable because he had to get 3 over on Darby before he gave Darby the win. I'm so glad it was spoiled so that I could just skip rampage this week. Is it heat? yes. Is it heat to get me to watch him get beat up? nope. Same with Charlotte, it isn't even a contemplation anymore, just change the channel or go to bed and turn on netflix. Miro was on such a fucking roll and I knew the second they took the belt off of him it was just a transition for Cody to get his belt back.


----------



## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

Cody isn’t even a heel. He has XPac heat. The go away heat.

The only way this move makes any sense is the guy beating him will get a huge pop from the crowd but right now there’s not lot of guys that need or derserve that.

Me personally I’d put that belt on Eddie Kingston. It’s a belt that would mean more to Eddie and the fans would love him having it. It’d be similar to a Mick Foley finally winning a belt type of reaction.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Hephaesteus said:


> he's winning the secondary title and not even beating people of consequence. Does anybody really care or is this just a f cody thing?


It's a grrrr Cody bad kind of thing. That's all.


----------



## Fearless Viper (Apr 6, 2019)

I don't get why people hate the guy. As long as he's not hogging the main title then all is good. It's obvious that Cody is trying to the next Cena/Roman who gets any reaction wherever part of the cards their in.


----------



## Braylyt (Jan 19, 2015)

Haven't been keeping up with wrestling for a minute but great to see Cody still winning at life


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

Randy Lahey said:


> Cody isn’t even a heel. He has XPac heat. The go away heat.
> 
> The only way this move makes any sense is the guy beating him will get a huge pop from the crowd but right now there’s not lot of guys that need or derserve that.
> 
> Me personally I’d put that belt on Eddie Kingston. It’s a belt that would mean more to Eddie and the fans would love him having it. It’d be similar to a Mick Foley finally winning a belt type of reaction.



You have no idea what go away heat is. Lol.


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)




----------



## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

RainmakerV2 said:


> You have no idea what go away heat is. Lol.


It’s channel changing heat. It’s “we’re sick of you” heat. Cody has it.


----------



## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

He will turn heel when he is good and ready, and will be hated, as a heel should. I am tired of ”cool” heels that fans love And buy their merch etc…


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

He is closest thing they have to Fotc. Now is time to go all in

Everyone can clearly tell Cody not Omega or Punk or Bryan or Jericho or Moxley has been presented as top guy for past 3 years.


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

Hephaesteus said:


> he's winning the secondary title and not even beating people of consequence. Does anybody really care or is this just a f cody thing?



Hey now, Sammy is one of da pillars of AEW. 🤣


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

validreasoning said:


> He is closest thing they have to Fotc. Now is time to go all in
> 
> Everyone can clearly tell Cody not Omega or Punk or Bryan or Jericho or Moxley has been presented as top guy for past 3 years.


Disagree with this. Cody has not been presented as FOTC in any way. He has never won the World Title and is never given a priority in terms of storylines and headliners.

The FOTC is Moxley or Omega.


----------



## jpickens (May 3, 2015)

All this does is give the TNT belt some relevancy.


----------



## BLISSED & LYNCHED (Dec 21, 2021)

Boring. Mid-card jobber that is getting booed out of the building as a supposed face. On a positive note, at least it's not Kenny Omega, Adam Cole or the Young Bucks in the title picture. Wonder what they'll call the TNT title next week since AEW is leaving the network and going to TBS. Great idea naming both men and women secondary titles after the tv network.


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

Cody's finishing move symbolised a foreshadowed heel turn.

In a promo last month he teased "using another move instead" with the double arms hooked as a reference to turning heel by becoming AEW's version of HHH.

He did the move.

Cody is now a heel.

And another subtle, but intentional, detail - the commentators brilliantly sold the finish as if they were prepped for Sammy to win, as if Sammy was originally booked to win the match, but Cody had the result changed due to his power as an EVP near the end of his 3-year contract. Did anyone else think they intentionally brought up certain tidbits about Cody's status in the company for the viewer to infer from? They dropped crumbs about it throughout the match, from start to finish.

I think the implication was Cody leveraged his contract status to change the outcome of this match. 

In kayfabe, Cody is now officially a heel that uses his elevated status within the company for personal gain... should be an interesting time ahead.


----------



## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

I haven't watched it yet, because Christmas. 

My initial impression isn't that I'm that upset. Guevara's reign has been very unimpressive so far, let's be honest.


----------



## Jnewt (Jan 12, 2018)

thorn123 said:


> He will turn heel when he is good and ready, and will be hated, as a heel should. I am tired of ”cool” heels that fans love And buy their merch etc…


Jesus Christ could appear and bring Randy Savage and Miss Elizabeth back to life, Cody could come out with alberto del rio, adolf hitler, and the terrorists that flew planes into the twin towers to form a new Nightmare Family, drop the leg on both Randy and Liz, kill them again, followed by slaughtering a newborn batch of puppies. You could guarantee me that Chuck Norris and Optimus Prime would come out on the shoulders of Hacksaw Jim Duggan to beat every one of them down into the pits of hell, cutting off their weiners, and making them watch all 3 hours of monday night raw as a final punishment for their evil deeds.... And I still wouldn't watch it. Even if it was free. He just is that Fake.


----------



## Moonlight_drive (Oct 8, 2008)

Good, because no one needs to see Sammy with a title.


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Dickhead1990 said:


> I haven't watched it yet, because Christmas.
> 
> My initial impression isn't that I'm that upset. Guevara's reign has been very unimpressive so far, let's be honest.


Agree. They didn't give Guevara a fair shot. If I was Guevara, I would be pissed. He's successfully defended the title 4 times and they were all against jobbers. 

But I mean, he's acting like a Midcard jobber on the internet, so maybe that's all he will amount to - a discount Miz.


----------



## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

Geert Wilders said:


> Agree. They didn't give Guevara a fair shot. If I was Guevara, I would be pissed. He's successfully defended the title 4 times and they were all against jobbers.
> 
> But I mean, he's acting like a Midcard jobber on the internet, so maybe that's all he will amount to - a discount Miz.


He'll rise to a higher level in time. I think he just needs to mature a bit first.


----------



## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

Geert Wilders said:


> Agree. They didn't give Guevara a fair shot. If I was Guevara, I would be pissed. He's successfully defended the title 4 times and they were all against jobbers.


Jay Lethal isn't a jobber.


----------



## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

It is hilarious that some people are justifying this by saying Guevara isn't champ, so it is fine. First off, Sammy was just getting started with the title. He never even got into a real feud and had to waste his time playing 2nd fiddle to Jericho. Secondly, Cody is clearly going to drop the title back to Sammy in a few months. It is the same shit Cody did with Darby. He needed to make it seem that he was putting someone over just by simply being in his orbit. I have no doubt that Cody is a heel, but the question is will be actually commit to it. This half and half character stuff hurts him and his rivals. 

Also, every one seems to be missing the most obvious reason for Cody winning. The Go-Big Show comes back in a few weeks. This could be something TNT asked for.


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

Geert Wilders said:


> Disagree with this. Cody has not been presented as FOTC in any way. He has never won the World Title and *is never given a priority in terms of storylines and headliners.*
> 
> The FOTC is Moxley or Omega.


Hardly anyone is buying that.





Geert Wilders said:


> Agree. They didn't give Guevara a fair shot. If I was Guevara, I would be pissed. He's successfully defended the title 4 times and they were all against jobbers.
> 
> But I mean, he's acting like a Midcard jobber on the internet, so maybe that's all he will amount to - a discount Miz.


Sammy has obvious maturity and decision issues. Which is fine, he’s young so maybe he will get past that. However, AEW is not obligated to put a belt on him because of potential. It’s probably best he lost, even if it’s to Cody R[HHH]odes.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

ceeder said:


> No full heel turn and beats Sammy clean after three Cross Rhodes.
> 
> Discuss.
> 
> AEW disabled comments from the tweets congratulating Cody.


It was great and I really like Sammy

but Cody is very good at wrestling and getting crowd reactions and telling a story - he’ll have an epic 3rd reign


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Banter.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Geert Wilders said:


> Disagree with this. Cody has not been presented as FOTC in any way. He has never won the World Title and is never given a priority in terms of storylines and headliners.
> 
> The FOTC is Moxley or Omega.


Not holding the world title doesn't mean much. He's definitely the FotC on the business end when it comes to the wrestlers. He's also in an extremely highlighted feud. Since losing to MJF he 

1. Was booked to win the inaugural TNT tournament and was put against a debuting Archer and Jake Roberts. 

2. Got to be involved with the debuts of Starks and Kingston through the open challenge

3. Only dropped the title to Brodie because he had to film TV

4. Came back and immediately won the title back. 

5. Was in the Sting debut segment for reasons

6. Had an entire highlight feud nobody wanted to get his shitty students and QT TV and PPV time

7. Got the debut of Black and ultimately beat him in the end 

8. Now he's TNT champ again

He's set up to do a lot of highlighted shit for somebody that's so benevolent they took themselves out of the world title picture. 



IronMan8 said:


> Cody's finishing move symbolised a foreshadowed heel turn.
> 
> In a promo last month he teased "using another move instead" with the double arms hooked as a reference to turning heel by becoming AEW's version of HHH.
> 
> ...


Christ the reaches to explain his current predicament are wild lol. I guess if everything is called a sign eventually folk will be right.


----------



## Gwi1890 (Nov 7, 2019)

So I guess Hook vs Cody happening


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Hitman1987 said:


> View attachment 113744
> 
> View attachment 113745


I really hate this motherfucker.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Geert Wilders said:


> Disagree with this. Cody has not been presented as FOTC in any way. He has never won the World Title and is never given a priority in terms of storylines and headliners.
> 
> The FOTC is Moxley or Omega.


He had priority in storylines for his entire TNT Title reign, hence him calling it “The Most Important Title in the Business” whilst also calling himself the company Ace.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Cody is 15 - 7 in 2021, but i guess nobody will talk about that

meaning he had matches on 42% of the weeks (22 matches in 52 weeks) / and 21% of all shows 104 Dynamites and 4 ppvs

which is below all the other evps

and his win rate is 68%

while Kenny is 70% (i even count draws as a loss) (24 matches)

Nick Jackson is 67% (28 matches)

Matt Jackson is 68% (29 matches)

Hangman has 21 matches - 1 less than Cody

his win rate is 85%

but suuuuurrrrreee, Cody buries everybody

ps> best win rate / most matches in 2021 seems to be Darby

34 matches, 30 wins - 88% win rate


----------



## imscotthALLIN (Feb 18, 2015)

Best mid-card boot licker in the business.


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Blaze2k2 said:


> Jay Lethal isn't a jobber.


Lethal is a jobber in AEW. 


bdon said:


> He had priority in storylines for his entire TNT Title reign, hence him calling it “The Most Important Title in the Business” whilst also calling himself the company Ace.


He might think this but the title itself is presented way differently to the world title.


----------



## thorwold (Dec 19, 2015)

The face who is really a heel thing works only if he stops cutting earnest babyface promos and doing those tacky fucking packages designed Cena style to try everything they can to get you on his side. If they can make that work then good for them (that he didn't say anything prior to the match last night is a step in the right direction) but having your Christmas Day show go off the air like that seems a strange, WWE-esque choice that they're usually above.

I'm fine with putting the title on him, but ending THAT show THAT way I can't say I like. They should have done that on Dynamite.


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Geert Wilders said:


> Disagree with this. Cody has not been presented as FOTC in any way. He has never won the World Title and is never given a priority in terms of storylines and headliners.
> 
> The FOTC is Moxley or Omega.


Holding the big title doesn´t mean anything these days. It´s about the presentation, screen time and involvement with big names. And going by that, Cody at least think he´s FOTC...While Omega runs around playing with the Bucks


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

RapShepard said:


> Not holding the world title doesn't mean much. He's definitely the FotC on the business end when it comes to the wrestlers. He's also in an extremely highlighted feud. Since losing to MJF he
> 
> 1. Was booked to win the inaugural TNT tournament and was put against a debuting Archer and Jake Roberts.
> 
> ...


This doesn’t mean anything really. A FOTC is a top merch dealer, super protected, and gets priority tv time. Cody doesn’t get any of these things.

when he is on tv, he gets his over exaggerated entrances and wins. But he isn’t really protected like Omega or Moxley are. He loses clean. He doesn’t hang with the big boys on Tv


----------



## go stros (Feb 16, 2020)

I can see Cody's I'm totally not a heel gimmick considered genius by smarks and as a insult to real fans.


----------



## I am Groot (May 2, 2017)

Miro losing the title was a big mistake


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Out of his 22 matches in 2021 / and 104 shows

Cody has only appeared in 4 Main Events

which is 3% of all shows

V Malakai Black 1
V Malakai Black 3
V Andrade 2
V Sammy

rHHHodes indeed / i’m guessing the facts and figures will be ignored

3% main events in 2021
68% win rate only (below Kenny, Hangman, Darby and more)
22 matches (below all other evps) and 21% of all possible shows
1 title win


----------



## JeSeGaN (Jun 5, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Cody is 15 - 7 in 2021, but i guess nobody will talk about that


You gotta agree that his limelight hogging is much more noticable, don´t you?

Btw: (belated) Merry Christmas, bro!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

JeSeGaN said:


> You gotta agree that his limelight hogging is much more noticable, don´t you?
> 
> Btw: (belated) Merry Christmas, bro!


Merry Christmas to you too dude!

i think his limelight hogging is blown out of proportion

don‘t get me wrong - when he does it, he does it well

but he’s only appeared on tv 21% of the time in 2021 - that is hardly HHH levels

68% win rate is hardly HHH levels too

only 4 main events in 2021 is definitely not HHH levels


----------



## JeSeGaN (Jun 5, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think his limelight hogging is blown out of proportion


Personally, all his programs and wins over new guys stick in my mind much more. Dunno why. 

But I didn´t know he lost 7 times. To who?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

JeSeGaN said:


> Personally, all his programs and wins over new guys stick in my mind much more. Dunno why.
> 
> But I didn´t know he lost 7 times. To who?


i think he sticks in the mind, because no matter how much the peeps fight against it - he’s actually pretty good

his losses in 2021 were

Malakai Black x 2
Jade and Shaq
Agogo and Marshall
Andrade
Andrade / FTR / Malakai
Scorpio (6-man ladder)


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Geert Wilders said:


> Lethal is a jobber in AEW.
> 
> He might think this but the title itself is presented way differently to the world title.


Not when Cody holds it. Every time Cody has held the TNT Title, it has taken precedence over the World Title in terms of story.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Geert Wilders said:


> This doesn’t mean anything really. A FOTC is a top merch dealer, super protected, and gets priority tv time. Cody doesn’t get any of these things.
> 
> when he is on tv, he gets his over exaggerated entrances and wins. But he isn’t really protected like Omega or Moxley are. He loses clean. He doesn’t hang with the big boys on Tv


Loses clean like when MJF needed Wardlow and the ring to beat him. When Black needed the mist in the 2nd match. When Jericho threw in the towel on him. When Andrade cheated against him. Outside of Brodie and the Darby roll up all his losses have asterisks.


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

bdon said:


> Not when Cody holds it. Every time Cody has held the TNT Title, it has taken precedence over the World Title in terms of story.


Did it ever headline over the world title match?

trust me, I also think Cody thinks way too high of himself. But don’t let bias cloud your perception.


----------



## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

This definitely works for him, brother.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> Loses clean like when MJF needed Wardlow and the ring to beat him. When Black needed the mist in the 2nd match. When Jericho threw in the towel on him. When Andrade cheated against him. Outside of Brodie and the Darby roll up all his losses have asterisks.


really?

talk facts

2021, look at his losses i listed

1 x malakai - clean
1 x malakai - mist
Jade / Shaq - clean
Agogo / Marshall - clean (even with Agogo punching him and Marshall pinning, Agogo was still part of the team)
Andrade / FTR / Malakai - clean
Scorpio ladder match - clean

you guys cherry pick your memories and just run with it


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Merry Christmas to you too dude!
> 
> i think his limelight hogging is blown out of proportion
> 
> ...


Cody Rhodes w/l stats for 2020 and 2021

12021261869.2726.913.822020342779.4617.612.9
He won 79.4% of his matches in 2020, and 69.2 in 20201

And if you count only singles matches, he gets even worse

12021151173.3320.016.722020262284.6311.513.8
84.6% wins in 2020 is not a normal stat for a midcard guy -In comparison, Sammys 2020 stat in singles.


22020221463.6836.400.0


Meanwhile, HHH has a career statistics of only 52% wins.. And that´s including these last years where he as a special attraction wins. Cody is worse.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Geert Wilders said:


> Did it ever headline over the world title match?
> 
> trust me, I also think Cody thinks way too high of himself. But don’t let bias cloud your perception.


Forget whether it headlines or not: the TNT Title and Cody story got the most play by far over Mox, aka Cody was the star of the show and booked like FOTC.

Don’t be a mark and think of wins and losses, look at who the stories most revolved around. Thanos won in Infinity War, but the stars of the show were clearly Captain America, Thor, and Iron-Man. Same thing here..


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

yeahright2 said:


> Cody Rhodes w/l stats for 2020 and 2021
> 
> 12021261869.2726.913.822020342779.4617.612.9
> He won 79.4% of his matches in 2020, and 69.2 in 20201
> ...


dude, you are cherry picking with no context

compare with evolution HHH

and compare with other AEW top talent

tell me Kenny and Hangman’s ‘singles wins’ in 2021 if you please


tell me if 3% of the main events is HHH level


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

yeahright2 said:


> Cody Rhodes w/l stats for 2020 and 2021
> 
> 12021261869.2726.913.822020342779.4617.612.9
> He won 79.4% of his matches in 2020, and 69.2 in 20201
> ...


Wins and losses are skewed in WWE though - due to DQ, no contests aand non finishes.

For example, in 2004 his stats show he lost to Shelton Benjamin two weeks in a row, then drew with him a month later - which again puts his win percentage down.

During his reign of terror, he lost plenty of tag team matches etc.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> really?
> 
> talk facts
> 
> ...


Didn't eat the pin in the Jade match, Red Velvet did

QT was clearly painted as about to lose until Ogogo snuck Cody, not exactly a clean win if QT won by a distraction finisher

Andrade/FTR/Malakai involved Black using the mist and Pac being pinned

A multiman ladder match isn't a great example of a loss without protection

So of your list, 1 is for sure clean, 1 is cleanish, 2 he didn't get pinned, and the other is a multiman ladder match.


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude, you are cherry picking with no context
> 
> compare with evolution HHH
> 
> ...


Evolution HHH was a main eventer. Which is what you´re arguing Cody isn´t. Cody should have stats similar to Sammy if he´s supposed to be at their level.

Omega won 76.9% of his matches in 2021. Which is just about right for the main event guy. And I despise Omega.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> Didn't eat the pin in the Jade match, Red Velvet did
> 
> QT was clearly painted as about to lose until Ogogo snuck Cody, not exactly a clean win if QT won by a distraction finisher
> 
> ...


he still lost

no getting around it

but yeah, mist on Pac - forgot about that


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

yeahright2 said:


> Evolution HHH was a main eventer. Which is what you´re arguing Cody isn´t. Cody should have stats similar to Sammy if he´s supposed to be at their level.
> 
> Omega won 76.9% of his matches in 2021. Which is just about right for the main event guy. And I despise Omega.


well, compare him against a ’midcard’ guy like Darby and MJF then brother brother

incidentally, Sammy lost 2 times in singles in 2021 out if 12

v Cody
v MJF

so, 85%

talk about it


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Erik. said:


> Wins and losses are skewed in WWE though - due to DQ, no contests aand non finishes.
> 
> For example, in 2004 his stats show he lost to Shelton Benjamin two weeks in a row, then drew with him a month later - which again puts his win percentage down.
> 
> During his reign of terror, he lost plenty of tag team matches etc.


They´re also skewed in AEW. How many of Omega/Bucks wins happened because of interference? I don´t have the number, but by memory it was almost all of them.


----------



## Yukoncornelius (Mar 12, 2021)

That was a solid match and he should have won the title. Sammy was an okay champ but a big step down from Miro.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

yeahright2 said:


> They´re also skewed in AEW. How many of Omega/Bucks wins happened because of interference? I don´t have the number, but by memory it was almost all of them.


What's that got to do with Cody?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Yukoncornelius said:


> That was a solid match and he should have won the title. Sammy was an okay champ but a big step down from Miro.


How does anyone stand a chance to become a “deserving” champion if they don’t get the kind of champion’s booking that has only ever been reserved for Cody and Chris Jericho so far?


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> he still lost
> 
> no getting around it
> 
> but yeah, mist on Pac - forgot about that


And HHH lost a lot on Raw too. The main thing with the HHH thing isn't as simple as whether he dominates with the top belt. It's the combination of real backstage power, he only gets rotated out when he has outside issues, and the fact most don't seem to gain from beating Cody. Like even with the recent Black stuff whether or not he'd let Black keep the win isn't a sign of a selfless guy.


----------



## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

Honestly, I can’t stand Cody (not as much as Bdon though). With that said, I’m enjoying what he’s doing right I’m not gonna lie. The fact that we’re not sure exactly where he’s going with his character make things pretty interesting. The way I see it, he’s waiting to get involved in a major feud before turning heel. No point in turning right now since all the major players are busy. Cody/Punk in my opinion would be the right time and the right story for him to complete his heel turn. Probably sometime in Spring when Punk’s feud with MJF is over.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> And HHH lost a lot on Raw too. The main thing with the HHH thing isn't as simple as whether he dominates with the top belt. It's the combination of real backstage power, he only gets rotated out when he has outside issues, and the fact most don't seem to gain from beating Cody. Like even with the recent Black stuff whether or not he'd let Black keep the win isn't a sign of a selfless guy.


Bull, peoples saying wrestlers don’t gain anything by beating Cody is their own fantasy world

he is on Miro, Malakai, Darby, Sammy level, right?

i would say Malakai and Andrade gained a LOT more beating Cody than what Sammy did beating Miro - they washed the stink of their WWE careers of in 1 match each

what about the 3% of main events in 2021 - is that HHH-like?

talk about it Rap


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Bull, peoples saying wrestlers don’t gain anything by beating Cody is their own fantasy world
> 
> he is on Miro, Malakai, Darby, Sammy level, right?
> 
> i would say Malakai and Andrade gained a LOT more beating Cody than what Sammy did beating Miro - they washed the stink of their WWE careers of in 1 match each


This is a very hard to take serious statement. They washed away all that stink, yet where are they now? Who knows when Andrade will be seen in a real story again and Malakai is feuding with Griff Garrison and Brian Pillman 2 guys who we both know are low card jobbers. While I want to see what Brody King is about, right now Black is decidedly in some low card shit



> what about the 3% of main events in 2021 - is that HHH-like?
> 
> talk about it Rap


This isn't as strong a point when AEW only has 4 PPVs a year. Dynamite doesn't use their TV main event in the same way WWE does. In WWE the main event is 8/10 reserver for the top title angle. But something to consider for somebody who doesn't want to book himself too strong or ever present Cody has made 12/14 PPVs the only time he missed getting a featured spot on one of the 4 big cards of the year where when he was filming TV. Him getting a PPV spot is so important Ogogo became a PPV talent to get him on.




Mr316 said:


> Honestly, I can’t stand Cody (not as much as Bdon though). With that said, I’m enjoying what he’s doing right I’m not gonna lie. *The fact that we’re not sure exactly where he’s going with his character* make things pretty interesting. The way I see it, he’s waiting to get involved in a major feud before turning heel. No point in turning right now since all the major players are busy. Cody/Punk in my opinion would be the right time and the right story for him to complete his heel turn. Probably sometime in Spring when Punk’s feud with MJF is over.


He's not telling some subtle story. He just wants to do all the things, which is why he swears we're so beyond heels and faces. He wants the freedom to be pompous and do extravagant heel shit when he wants, but he consistently tends to set himself up against people that are clearly worse so who's the good guy is rarely in question.


----------



## Freelancer (Aug 24, 2010)

HHH Jr. Nobody should be shocked.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> This is a very hard to take serious statement. They washed away all that stink, yet where are they now? Who knows when Andrade will be seen in a real story again and Malakai is feuding with Griff Garrison and Brian Pillman 2 guys who we both know are low card jobbers. While I want to see what Brody King is about, right now Black is decidedly in some low card shit
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Them having only 4 PPVs a year makes it a much Stronger point - its the ultimate main events

and he hasn’t been in a single one in 2021

Evolution HHH could never

and 3% is a mega strong point - he has less tv show and ppv main events that all of the other EVPs and even some other talent - mid and upper card


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Them having only 4 PPVs a year makes it a much Stronger point - its the ultimate main events
> 
> and he hasn’t been in a single one in 2021
> 
> ...


TV main events are rarely ever the actual main event. Anyone want to argue that Bryan and Kenny or Bryan and Page wasn’t the main event of those respective Dynamites? Stop.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> TV main events are rarely ever the actual main event. Anyone want to argue that Bryan and Kenny or Bryan and Page wasn’t the main event of those respective Dynamites? Stop.


Main events go last, you know this

otherwise we’ll get people ’interpreting’ the main event every which way

’cody + pac vs malakai v andrade was on spot 2 on the card, but we all really know it was the main event’

gtfouttaheeere


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

If Cody just has matches, and a lot of them staying on Rampage like Miro and Sammy’s reigns, without these big promos and massive overarching stories, then I will absolutely be fine with it. Treat it like a TV title.

The minute he starts trying to portray it as being as bigger or booking it more interestingly than the World Title, I’m going to lose my shit. I ain’t even necessarily mad that he beat Sammy (I’m really not), I am angry at shit that has not happened (yet), because I have history of him in this spot ruining another champion’s World Title reign.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Main events go last, you know this
> 
> otherwise we’ll get people ’interpreting’ the main event every which way
> 
> ...


So, Bryan/Omega and Bryan/Page isn’t a main event. Gotcha. Stupid, but I gotcha…


----------



## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

I'm assuming they wanted some 'star power' holding the TNT belt for the TBS switch. Will the belt be re-branded ?

Sammy's reign was weak - the belt didn't elevate him and he didn't elevate the belt. He didn't even get a high profile defence at Full Gear because Jericho wanted to take a stapler to Dan Lambert's testicles instead. Where were Inner Circle for Sammy's loss ? Santana and Ortiz support Kingston more than their boy. 

Whatever they're going to do with Cody and the belt will be more interesting than Sammy's run.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> So, Bryan/Omega and Bryan/Page isn’t a main event. Gotcha. Stupid, but I gotcha…


I don’t make the rules 🤷‍♂️


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

'Rainmaker' Cody Rhodes


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

AthleticGirth said:


> I'm assuming they wanted some 'star power' holding the TNT belt for the TBS switch. Will the belt be re-branded ?
> 
> Sammy's reign was weak - the belt didn't elevate him and he didn't elevate the belt. He didn't even get a high profile defence at Full Gear because Jericho wanted to take a stapler to Dan Lambert's testicles instead. Where were Inner Circle for Sammy's loss ? Santana and Ortiz support Kingston more than their boy.
> 
> *Whatever they're going to do with Cody and the belt will be more interesting than Sammy's run.*


And how is Sammy supposed to elevate the belt or vice versa when he doesn’t get a story to tell and just has random matches. Darby’s title reign (along with Brodie’s), and I know many are going to claim otherwise, all lacked the same storytelling. Just matches…


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

I turn the tv off every time he comes on. Only part of the show I’m not interested in.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I don’t make the rules 🤷‍♂️


It doesn’t hold true in AEW, because TK almost always starts his show with the top billed match: from Kenny and Pac to Kenny and Bryan to Bryan and Page to Cody and Kingston.

That’s actually been one of my beefs with the way the show is formatted! Hah


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Them having only 4 PPVs a year makes it a much Stronger point - its the ultimate main events
> 
> and he hasn’t been in a single one in 2021
> 
> ...


Again you're oversimplifying the comparison. HHH the last 15 years hasn't had a lot of title reigns or main events. But he surely has made sure too always be in or around some of the biggest things. Getting another 2 matches with Taker, working Brock's 2nd program, The Authority, being involved with Summer of Punk, being involved with The Yes Movement, retiring Batista, being in HBK's return match, and not being shy to get that NXT love.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> It doesn’t hold true in AEW, because TK almost always starts his show with the top billed match: from Kenny and Pac to Kenny and Bryan to Bryan and Page to Cody and Kingston.
> 
> That’s actually been one of my beefs with the way the show is formatted! Hah


Look, I agree with you

BUT what I’m saying is we cannot go away from the last match is the main event - cause that leaves all main events open to interpretation

the only openers I would class as main events anyway was

Bryan / Omega
Bryan / Hangman
Punk debut talk

Cody and Kingston was not the ME / it was an open challenge against an unsigned guy - it just ended up being very good

Neither was Kenny / Pac IMO

but even if we took all of these - that is still only 5 times in 3 years. Not enough to say ‘this is now the way‘


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> Again you're oversimplifying the comparison. HHH the last 15 years hasn't had a lot of title reigns or main events. But he surely has made sure too always be in or around some of the biggest things. Getting another 2 matches with Taker, working Brock's 2nd program, The Authority, being involved with Summer of Punk, being involved with The Yes Movement, retiring Batista, being in HBK's return match, and not being shy to get that NXT love.


Even better then - Cody is not involved in all the big angles either or with all the big debuts as everybody says


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Look, I agree with you
> 
> BUT what I’m saying is we cannot go away from the last match is the main event - cause that leaves all main events open to interpretation
> 
> ...


Then why wasn’t Punk’s first match in 7 years the “main event”? Why wasn’t his first match on Dynamite the “main event”? Why wasn’t Christian Cage handing Omega his first singles loss in 714 days the “main event”?

Going by your rules: WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THE AEW TITLE AND CHAMPION WERE PRESENTED AS A MAIN EVENT TO THE WEEKLY AUDIENCE WHICH IS A LOT GODDAMN LARGER THAN THE 100k WHO WATCH PPV!?


----------



## Brittburgh (Oct 24, 2021)

It is time to retire the belt anyway so let him have it. 
Time for a new TBS title for the guys division.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

I think Cody is currently one of the more interesting parts of the show. Although, I must admit I also enjoyed me some HHH


----------



## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

Isn’t it a wrestlers job to generate interest, Cody has done that


----------



## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

bdon said:


> And how is Sammy supposed to elevate the belt or vice versa when he doesn’t get a story to tell and just has random matches. Darby’s title reign (along with Brodie’s), and I know many are going to claim otherwise, all lacked the same storytelling. Just matches…


No disagreement from me that Sammy's booking has been underwhelming for his title run. I can only assume it was a case of situations / plans changing.

Whatever we think about Cody, good or bad, he's a compelling character right now with a compelling arc. He's also got the pull to make sure he's not booked as an afterthought like Sammy was.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

AthleticGirth said:


> He's also got the pull to make sure he's not booked as an afterthought like Sammy was.


Bingo and my biggest beef.

He’s an EVP. He should be working to make sure every champion feels important, not just his title reign.

As of right now, the only title reigns that have been treated as important in AEW are Jericho’s World title and Cody’s TNT title reigns.


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, compare him against a ’midcard’ guy like Darby and MJF then brother brother
> 
> incidentally, Sammy lost 2 times in singles in 2021 out if 12
> 
> ...


I’ll talk about the 3% main event statistic:

Cody wrote himself out of the world title scene which is the main event title. Therefore you would expect him not to be in the main event much as he cannot hold or challenge for the main event title.

You can counter that by saying the world title scene doesn’t always main event the shows but then it makes the 3% statistic meaningless as you’re essentially arguing that anybody can be in the main event and therefore Cody giving it up 97% of the time isn’t anything special.

Do you also happen to have stats for TV time, celebrity rubs and gimmicks used for feuds/matches? it would be interesting to compare those stats against the other TNT champs


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)




----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Hitman1987 said:


> Do you also happen to have stats for TV time, celebrity rubs and gimmicks used for feuds/matches? it would be interesting to compare those stats against the other TNT champs


TALK ABOUT IT @LifeInCattleClass


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Hitman1987 said:


> I’ll talk about the 3% main event statistic:
> 
> Cody wrote himself out of the world title scene which is the main event title. Therefore you would expect him not to be in the main event much as he cannot hold or challenge for the main event title.
> 
> ...


i mean I can make the time to collate it, but someone would have to pay me to do that work 

only being in 3% is significant though if the argument is ‘he is like HHH’

i am going to collate wins / losses and main events after next weeks Dynamite and Rampage - we can check then


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> TALK ABOUT IT @LifeInCattleClass


pay me Bdon! 

but i will collate wins /losses / main events for 2021 after next week

i might even check storylines / gimmicks

i think you guys will be shocked


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Even better then - Cody is not involved in all the big angles either or with all the big debuts as everybody says


HHH wasn't involved in every big or highly featured angle either, just a fuck ton of them, like Cody.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Imagine people still going to defend this dude.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> HHH wasn't involved in every big or highly featured angle either, just a fuck ton of them, like Cody.


but Cody isn't / not out of whack with his spot on the card or company


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> HHH wasn't involved in every big or highly featured angle either, just a fuck ton of them, like Cody.



Codys run in aew is way more extremely planned out to do what he wants it to do. HHH still did have other people heavily involved with direction of everything unlike aew that has no one. We cant forget that cody said the tnt belt is the most important belt in aew. Its pretty much true because he made that stupid storyline where he cant go for the main belt. Which is stupid because we know he will get it one day.


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

If win/loss records are a massive indicator of your relevance, I wish to congratulate Colten Gunn on being one of the biggest stars in wrestling.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Hotdiggity11 said:


> If win/loss records are a massive indicator of your relevance, I wish to congratulate Colten Gunn on being one of the biggest stars in wrestling.


THANK YOU!!!

Wins and losses don’t matter, but how your story is presented certainly does. And Cody presents himself, via the spectacle and pomp and circumstance that his feuds and segments receive, as the biggest star not named Jericho.

Like…why were we forced to watch Cody and a rookie boxer-turned-wrestler on Pay-Per-View in a fucking COUNTRY VS COUNTRY feud!?! Remind me the next time that Omega, the Bucks, Hangman, Moxley, or even Jericho pull such bullshit. AND THOSE GUYS ARE ACTUALLY MAIN EVENT CALIBER TALENT IN AEW!


----------



## Kenny's Ghost (Nov 23, 2020)

Cody's shenanigan's amuse me. Hope he wins the AEW title next.


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

bdon said:


> THANK YOU!!!
> 
> Wins and losses don’t matter, but how your story is presented certainly does. And Cody presents himself, via the spectacle and pomp and circumstance that his feuds and segments receive, as the biggest star not named Jericho.
> 
> Like…why were we forced to watch Cody and a rookie boxer-turned-wrestler on Pay-Per-View in a fucking COUNTRY VS COUNTRY feud!?! Remind me the next time that Omega, the Bucks, Hangman, Moxley, or even Jericho pull such bullshit. AND THOSE GUYS ARE ACTUALLY MAIN EVENT CALIBER TALENT IN AEW!


It may be a stretch to say “Wins and losses don’t matter” but you should definitely look at them in context. Most of the heels of the 80s and 90s tended to have average to bad w/l records but were also some of the relevant wrestlers of the last 40 years. Piper never held a singles title in the WWF until the early 90s but that never stopped him from being one of the most prominent heels (And later faces) in the company. Same with Cody, he doesn’t need the top title to get a one minute entrance even on televised shows with a constant entourage and almost all of the celebrity interaction.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but Cody isn't / not out of whack with his spot on the card or company


HHH wasn't either, still doesn't change the fact there's a vocal portion of the audience that thought both did too much.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

bdon said:


> THANK YOU!!!
> 
> Wins and losses don’t matter, but how your story is presented certainly does. And Cody presents himself, via the spectacle and pomp and circumstance that his feuds and segments receive, as the biggest star not named Jericho.
> 
> Like…why were we forced to watch Cody and a rookie boxer-turned-wrestler on Pay-Per-View in a fucking COUNTRY VS COUNTRY feud!?! Remind me the next time that Omega, the Bucks, Hangman, Moxley, or even Jericho pull such bullshit. AND THOSE GUYS ARE ACTUALLY MAIN EVENT CALIBER TALENT IN AEW!



ive been saying wins and loses dont matter from day 1. Its clear in the ratings that people dont just give a fuck about some random matches with numbers attached to it. Even boxing and ufc biggest success is not about wins or loses but the back story going into the match with strong characters. Its also why we can not compare the tv viewership to the live crowd. As ive said any of us im sure would still happily go to a aew event if they came in our area. Its like a super indy show. Different market.


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i mean I can make the time to collate it, but someone would have to pay me to do that work
> 
> only being in 3% is significant though if the argument is ‘he is like HHH’
> 
> i am going to collate wins / losses and main events after next weeks Dynamite and Rampage - we can check then


I’ll pay you in Marko Stunt merch 😎

Cody is nothing like HHH. Don’t forget before the reign of terror HHH was one of the biggest stars in the most popular period of wrestling and part of 2 of the greatest factions ever. Cody has a long way to go before he can even be considered on HHH’s level.

Cody’s booking is basically ‘Rocky 3’ where a new bad guy comes in, squashes him because he’s gone Hollywood, then Cody comes back and wins and the guy disappears down the card. The only thing missing, which is the most important part, is the bit in the middle where Rocky goes off to train and better himself to conquer his opponent. Cody just returns as the same Cody who lost and avenges his loss and it buries his opponent’s first victory.


----------



## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

Cody isn’t even a heel. He has XPac heat. The go away heat.

The only way this move makes any sense is the guy beating him will get a huge pop from the crowd but right now there’s not lot of guys that need or derserve that.

Me personally I’d put that belt on Eddie Kingston. It’s a belt that would mean more to Eddie and the fans would love him having it. It’d be similar to a Mick Foley finally winning a belt type of reaction.


RainmakerV2 said:


> You have no idea what go away heat is. Lol.


It’s channel changing heat. It’s “we’re sick of you” heat. Cody has it.


LifeInCattleClass said:


> Cody is 15 - 7 in 2021, but i guess nobody will talk about that
> 
> meaning he had matches on 42% of the weeks (22 matches in 52 weeks) / and 21% of all shows 104 Dynamites and 4 ppvs
> 
> ...


The fact he’s champion despite those 7 losses mean those losses meant nothing.

Facts are there’s 10+ other wrestlers on that roster that are more over, more interesting, and have more upside.

Having a career mediocrity hold a title like that is just dumb. Cody should be way closer to Christian/Matt Hardy than the top of the card


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Hitman1987 said:


> I’ll pay you in Marko Stunt merch 😎
> 
> Cody is nothing like HHH. Don’t forget before the reign of terror HHH was one of the biggest stars in the most popular period of wrestling and part of 2 of the greatest factions ever. Cody has a long way to go before he can even be considered on HHH’s level.
> 
> Cody’s booking is basically ‘Rocky 3’ where a new bad guy comes in, squashes him because he’s gone Hollywood, then Cody comes back and wins and the guy disappears down the card. The only thing missing, which is the most important part, is the bit in the middle where Rocky goes off to train and better himself to conquer his opponent. Cody just returns as the same Cody who lost and avenges his loss and it buries his opponent’s first victory.



people forget that hhh was rising in popularity regardless of his push that came later. He was even set to win that rumble stonecold won and that was long before any extra power. Of course drama changed that story. Cody though he pushes himself into all these situations. One of the few guys that has to aggressively raise his arms pushing crowds to cheer for him. Just like what eric bishoff says.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

ok - I took some time to measure some mid to top guys / not even including real top top guys like Bucks, Omega, Jericho, Mox etc etc (2021)

This is HHH? this is the terror of AEW, the Main Event monster??










Talk about it @bdon @Hitman1987 @shandcraig @RapShepard

Not in the most matches, not the best singles record, not the best PPV record

not not not

admit that shit   

PS> this includes ZERO dark or elevation / so don't give me 'padding' shit


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ok - I took some time to measure some mid to top guys / not even including real top top guys like Bucks, Omega, Jericho, Mox etc etc (2021)
> 
> This is HHH? this is the terror of AEW, the Main Event monster??
> 
> ...


admit what ? what are you pointing out in that photo ? If you're somehow trying to defend wins or loses i dont know how thats possible. Anyones rank means nothing weather they have hardly any wins or the most.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Hotdiggity11 said:


> If win/loss records are a massive indicator of your relevance, I wish to congratulate Colten Gunn on being one of the biggest stars in wrestling.


take away Dark and Elevation and lets talk again big guy


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

shandcraig said:


> admit what ? what are you pointing out in that photo ?


that he is clearly not being booked as the strongest ever, that his W/L record doesn't eclipse other mid to upper carders

that he doesn't get way more matches or overshadows the shows - I mean, take any crit you have of Cody and it can be debunked with that picture

just take 5 min and figure it out for yourself


----------



## ET_Paul (Jul 2, 2018)

Randy Lahey said:


> Cody isn’t even a heel. He has XPac heat. The go away heat.
> 
> The only way this move makes any sense is the guy beating him will get a huge pop from the crowd but right now there’s not lot of guys that need or derserve that.
> 
> ...


Cody doesn’t have X-PAC heat. There’s one poster in this thread that says they change the channel when he’s on.

Everyone else hate watches his matches and segments. People anticipate his appearance so they can see how bad the boos are, and/or CAN’T WAIT to add to them.

His match on Rampage was met with a, “this is awesome” chant by the same people booing him.






Look at all the people emotionally invested in this match! They’re standing; jumping at near falls. Sorry, that’s not go away heat.

“Let’s see if Cody has his grand entrance…”
“Let’s see if Cody goes over this guy”
“Is he gonna finally plant seeds to his heel turn”

People wait in anticipation to see the reaction to Cody each wait. When did people act this way towards X-PAC?


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that he is clearly not being booked as the strongest ever, that his W/L record doesn't eclipse other mid to upper carders
> 
> that he doesn't get way more matches or overshadows the shows - I mean, take any crit you have of Cody and it can be debunked with that picture
> 
> just take 5 min and figure it out for yourself



yes you dont get it my friend, You clearly dont understand the strategy cody is doing. Its also not about being booked as some monster. That is not what we have been talking about for 3 years. clearly not going to take 5 minutes for you to figure this out. We talked about it enough and tried to explain it to the few that wont see it. So thats that


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ok - I took some time to measure some mid to top guys / not even including real top top guys like Bucks, Omega, Jericho, Mox etc etc (2021)
> 
> This is HHH? this is the terror of AEW, the Main Event monster??
> 
> ...


It's been addressed consistently, you're trying to hide in numbers to avoid discussing presentation and presence.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Randy Lahey said:


> Having a career mediocrity hold a title like that is just dumb. Cody should be way closer to Christian/Matt Hardy than the top of the card


so, now he should be lower card and supporting role as opposed to midcard / upper card

lol, you guys are grabbing at straws now


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> It's been addressed consistently, you're trying to hide in numbers to avoid discussing presentation and presence.


numbers is the only factual thing you can point to that doesn't have bias or feelings

talk about the numbers Rap

but if you want to talk presentation and presence / the singles win / loss will help you there and the 3% in the main event too


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> take away Dark and Elevation and lets talk again big guy


So, win/loss records require context? Well damn, that’s what I just pointed out and illustrated. Thanks for agreeing. 😂


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> It's been addressed consistently, you're trying to hide in numbers to avoid discussing presentation and presence.


he doesn't get it. How many times have we had to explain this. Thankfully the growing boos is people taking to the time to not numb themselves through a show and understand what is going on.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ok - I took some time to measure some mid to top guys / not even including real top top guys like Bucks, Omega, Jericho, Mox etc etc
> 
> This is HHH? this is the terror of AEW, the Main Event monster??
> 
> ...


Is this 2021 alone when even I feel like he hasn’t been pushed nearly as much as those guys, yet he has the most gimmick matches!? 😂😂😂 This is seriously shocking. 

This is the shit I’m talking about when I say how he presents himself. He has spent most of his 2021 rightfully portraying his midcard act, not even upper midcard, yet he has nearly more gimmick matches than 2 TNT title champions and your World Champ do COMBINED.

Think some of those gimmick matches being wasted in the midcard couldn’t have been used to maybe make the title scenes a little more enticing?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Hotdiggity11 said:


> So, win/loss records require context? Well damn, that’s what I just pointed out and illustrated. Thanks for agreeing. 😂


ok, so if you want to talk the official win/loss with the padding - the same thing happens - Cody looks the same as he has more losses in comparison with his peers


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Like the same people that at this point would defend cm punk, Its just laughable.


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ok - I took some time to measure some mid to top guys / not even including real top top guys like Bucks, Omega, Jericho, Mox etc etc (2021)
> 
> This is HHH? this is the terror of AEW, the Main Event monster??
> 
> ...


Can you do the same since AEW’s inception? You would expect him to have a quieter year as he wasn’t champ during the year. 3 of the guys in your table have had their first singles championship run this year so you’re comparing champs against non-champs and therefore isn’t fair.

Do you also happen to have stats for TV time and celebrity rubs/debuts as I feel you’re only painting half of the picture?

Out of interest, what PPV did Cody miss and why?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

RapShepard said:


> It's been addressed consistently, you're trying to hide in numbers to avoid discussing presentation and presence.


He knows what we are implying. He’s deflecting.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

La Parka said:


> Cody’a been a face acting like a heel for years.
> 
> Im starting to get the feeling hes just really tone deaf and isn’t ever going to turn heel.


*AEW turning off comments for every Cody post tells me that they're fully aware of his highly negative reception.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> Is this 2021 alone when even I feel like he hasn’t been pushed nearly as much as those guys, yet he has the most gimmick matches!? 😂😂😂 This is seriously shocking.
> 
> This is the shit I’m talking about when I say how he presents himself. He has spent most of his 2021 rightfully portraying his midcard act, not even upper midcard, yet he has nearly more gimmick matches than 2 TNT title champions and your World Champ do COMBINED.
> 
> Think some of those gimmick matches being wasted in the midcard couldn’t have been used to maybe make the title scenes a little more enticing?


oh, but Bdon

here is his gimmick matches in 2021 (ignore the 8-person / I don't count that)

and you can really discount the ladder match too, as it had 5 other guys and the ref match with Arn was just a basic match

then a 'street fight' with Solow - lol

so really, 2 proper gimmick matches - a street fight with Andrade and a Strap with QT


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> He knows what we are implying. He’s deflecting.


i'm not - you guys are

for the first time in this conversation i'm disregarding feelings and talking facts and you dudes are all up in your feelings

you don't want to talk about it is the problem


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> oh, but Bdon
> 
> here is his gimmick matches in 2021 (ignore the 8-person / I don't count that)
> 
> ...


And you’re ignoring the fact that he HAD A MATCH TO CURE RACISM!!!


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Lets play this game, Why is cody not the main event scene ? Hmmmm I wonder why, Its his strategy because he knows what hes doing. Its like If stonecold was as good as he was but was like hmmm im going to not be in the main event scene because i dont need to, please

to many sims watching wrestling


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Hitman1987 said:


> Can you do the same since AEW’s inception? You would expect him to have a quieter year as he wasn’t champ during the year. 3 of the guys in your table have had their first singles championship run this year so you’re comparing champs against non-champs and therefore isn’t fair.
> 
> Do you also happen to have stats for TV time and celebrity rubs/debuts as I feel you’re o ou painting half of the picture?
> 
> Out of interest, what PPV did Cody kiss and why?


He missed All Out

nah mate, not doing this since inception / cause people will disregard the lack of star power from day one, where guys like Cody and Jericho would've taken a heavier load

in terms of tv time, i don't know where to get that - celeb rubs was Shaq only I think?

debut involvement in 2021 was Agogo, Shaq, and Malakai i think

it might be half the picture, but it is a better half than 'i *feel* he is RHHHodes'


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

bdon said:


> And you’re ignoring the fact that he HAD A MATCH TO CURE RACISM!!!



he cures racism, He elevates jobbers to the main event scene, Hes so dam good that he dont need to be placed in the main event or have a world championship, He works so dam hard that he dont need his dads name. The list really is endless though.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> And you’re ignoring the fact that he HAD A MATCH TO CURE RACISM!!!


people are up in their feelings about that promo

but if you recall - what he actually said was 'he is proud that he can have a multiracial daughter in America without issues - therefore proud of how far America has come'

which is true - 50 years ago, he would've had issues


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i'm not - you guys are
> 
> for the first time in this conversation i'm disregarding feelings and talking facts and you dudes are all up in your feelings
> 
> you don't want to talk about it is the problem


None of us have ever complained about the wins or losses. It’s ALWAYS been about the goddamn way he presents himself and his story.

Even though you want to not include that ladder match due to it having 5 other guys in it, what was the biggest spot of the match? Cody getting injured and trying to return like the hardened babyface refusing to quit. That’s the spot of the match. Who was on the ladder last with Scorpio?

That is the shit I’m talking about. Instead of just letting Scorpio Sky have the win, Cody has to have a moment in there that is all about HIM. What a way to try and elevate a guy up the card! “I’m going to put Scorpio over, but first, I’m gonna steal his thunder and the spotlight!” How thoughtful of him.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> None of us have ever complained about the wins or losses. It’s ALWAYS been about the goddamn way he presents himself and his story.
> 
> Even though you want to not include that ladder match due to it having 5 other guys in it, what was the biggest spot of the match? Cody getting injured and trying to return like the hardened babyface refusing to quit. That’s the spot of the match. Who was on the ladder last with Scorpio?
> 
> That is the shit I’m talking about. Instead of just letting Scorpio Sky have the win, Cody has to have a moment in there that is all about HIM. What a way to try and elevate a guy up the card! “I’m going to put Scorpio over, but first, I’m gonna steal his thunder and the spotlight!” How thoughtful of him.


these are silly arguments

you won't be happy until he does nothing or has no spots and no shine

you'll always have bias and never have props, even when he turns heel

you have to just admit that shit and we can move on


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> people are up in their feelings about that promo
> 
> but if you recall - what he actually said was 'he is proud that he can have a multiracial daughter in America without issues - therefore proud of how far America has come'
> 
> which is true - 50 years ago, he would've had issues


Let’s take away the joke about racism, fine. He still had Ogogo out there cutting promos for a US vs UK, country vs country blood feud.

Don’t fucking pretend that isn’t a massive fucking attempt at stealing thunder. It had regular rules, but a country vs country storyline is as big a fucking gimmick match as there is.z


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> these are silly arguments
> 
> you won't be happy until he does nothing or has no spots and no shine
> 
> ...


You’re arguing that he shouldn’t have a goddamn ladder match included in the list, despite him having the biggest spot of the fucking match, man!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> Let’s take away the joke about racism, fine. He still had Ogogo out there cutting promos for a US vs UK, country vs country blood feud.
> 
> Don’t fucking pretend that isn’t a massive fucking attempt at stealing thunder. It had regular rules, but a country vs country storyline is as big a fucking gimmick match as there is.z


1 country vs country for the dude that loves 80s wrestling

oh the horror


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> You’re arguing that he shouldn’t have a goddamn ladder match included in the list, despite him having the biggest spot of the fucking match, man!


dude - I included the ladder match in my stats - its one of the 5

i'm just saying there were 5 other guys in there - so up to you if you count it as a gimmick match


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

is this dude still talking about wins and loses lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

shandcraig said:


> is this dude still talking about wins and loses lol


talk about quantity of matches in 2021 then

or 'times in the main event'

or spots on the PPVs

you'll come 2nd with all of them

maybe try 'best dressed' or count 'promo time' and come back to us


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

the fact is, if anyone else won the belt, it would not have created an 8-page thread.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

This is fun. HHH is remembered for dominating, yet he:


Has the most losses in the history of WrestleMania (13)
Has an overall losing record at WrestleMania (10-13)

We all just remember him talking for the first 20 minutes of RAW for like three years straight.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Cody's whole act is fascinating to me.

He's quite obviously a heel, who thinks he's a mega babyface, that constantly puts himself in situations to hog the spotlight and come off as a hero which has made the fans tire of him as a babyface which is the heat. It's really the best way to approach being a heel in 2021 without having any sect of the audience like him.

I feel if he made a blatantly obvious heel turn, he'd probably just end up getting cheered.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> talk about quantity of matches in 2021 then
> 
> or 'times in the main event'
> 
> ...


6 gimmick matches (of course a country vs country match should be included) compared to 7 for two TNT champions with a combined reign of 9+ months and your world champion who has been in the promotion’s longest running story arc.

I’d say Cody has made every effort to seem highly important, despite being a midcard act. You don’t get to claim you’re being a midcard act while trying to outshine everyone else with attempts at memorable gimmick matches.

Look at the way Moxley presented himself vs the way Cody presented himself. Neither were champs this year, but one clearly allowed himself to slide down the card without trying to steal the show.


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> He missed All Out
> 
> nah mate, not doing this since inception / cause people will disregard the lack of star power from day one, where guys like Cody and Jericho would've taken a heavier load
> 
> ...


You have to paint the whole picture or you cannot come to a fair conclusion.

The other 4 people in your list are having their biggest pushes in AEW career and your table shows that Cody is within a few figures/percent of them with regards to wins, gimmicks and PPV matches and its his “step back” year.

Maybe bring up the stats for Eddie Kingston, Lance Archer, Pac and Brian Cage and see where we are. All non 2021 champs.

Or compare Darby, Hangman’s and Miro against Cody’s first year.

Cody is the only guy in the company who the AEW fan base has turned on. Not even the Bucks and OC, who divide opinions, get booed.


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 1 country vs country for the dude that loves 80s wrestling
> 
> oh the horror


Country vs Country was Rocky 4 Cody 😂😂😂


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> 6 gimmick matches (of course a country vs country match should be included) compared to 7 for two TNT champions with a combined reign of 9+ months and your world champion who has been in the promotion’s longest running story arc.
> 
> I’d say Cody has made every effort to seem highly important, despite being a midcard act. You don’t get to claim you’re being a midcard act while trying to outshine everyone else with attempts at memorable gimmick matches.
> 
> Look at the way Moxley presented himself vs the way Cody presented himself. Neither were champs this year, but one clearly allowed himself to slide down the card without trying to steal the show.


you can‘t count the country vs country ‘just because you want to’

you’re also really ignoring those 5 MJF gimmick matches, aren’t you?

by the way, jericho had 9 gimmick matches in 2021 - don’t see you giving him even a quarter of the same amount of shit

talk about that


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i'm not - you guys are
> 
> for the first time in this conversation i'm disregarding feelings and talking facts and you dudes are all up in your feelings
> 
> you don't want to talk about it is the problem


You're numbers have been addressed, it's just they're easily countered when you look at the entire picture. 

Using numbers only

Varsity Blondes- 20-5 as a tag team

Jungle Express- 14-3 as a tag team 

Therefore clearly Jungle Express aren't a bigger deal than Varsity Blondes.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Hitman1987 said:


> You have to paint the whole picture or you cannot come to a fair conclusion.
> 
> The other 4 people in your list are having their biggest pushes in AEW career and your table shows that Cody is within a few figures/percent of them with regards to wins, gimmicks and PPV matches and its his “step back” year.
> 
> ...


That’s my thing: Cody is supposed to be a midcard act underneath those guys, yet he had nearly the same amount of gimmick matches as they did COMBINED. How are they supposed to ever get elevated to his level or above him if, in a fucking year that was supposed to highlight them, they still didn’t get all of the cool and memorable gimmick matches that are typically reserved for the biggest feuds?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Hitman1987 said:


> *You have to paint the whole picture or you cannot come to a fair conclusion.*
> 
> The other 4 people in your list are having their biggest pushes in AEW career and your table shows that Cody is within a few figures/percent of them with regards to wins, gimmicks and PPV matches and its his “step back” year.
> 
> ...


that’s bull - people are arguing more with less

lets say i collate all the tv time, and debuts and promo time - you think these lads and yourself will suddenly go ‘oh, guess he’s right, Cody is not like HHH irl’

nope, won’t happen

i’ll do all the major peeps in the same way after next week - and we can see with the basic stats


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> You're numbers have been addressed, it's just they're easily countered when you look at the entire picture.
> 
> Using numbers only
> 
> ...


but everybody keeps telling me ‘use dynamite, rampage and ppv only’ / now you use dark / elevation too

which is it?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> It might be half the picture, but it is a better half than 'i *feel* he is RHHHodes'


*He used a modified pedigree to end the match. It's not a feeling at this point. BDon has been right since that shitty Pete Avalon match last winter.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> That’s my thing: Cody is supposed to be a midcard act underneath those guys, yet he had nearly the same amount of gimmick matches as they did COMBINED. How are they supposed to ever get elevated to his level or above him if, in a fucking year that was supposed to highlight them, they still didn’t get all of the cool and memorable gimmick matches that are typically reserved for the biggest feuds?


what about MJF and Jericho in 2021?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you can‘t count the country vs country ‘just because you want to’
> 
> you’re also really ignoring those 5 MJF gimmick matches, aren’t you?
> 
> ...


I hate Jericho and have said all year that he and Cody have become leeches. Go back to 2019, and you’ll see that I was calling it the Cody and Jericho show even then when Omega and Mox clearly had the fans interest yet none of the tv time.

Jericho will forever have Tony Khan in his pocket for signing with AEW. I can’t do anything about that, but I fully admit that Jericho is the stingiest on-air character in the company.

But he’s not an EVP that is in charge of making sure every character matters. But yes, Jericho is absolutely a parasite to the company and should slide down the goddamn card and stop trying to make his midcard act feel like part of a main event story. I agree wholeheartedly. Pretty sure everyone hates Jericho’s stuff anymore.

Does that mean you’ll admit that Cody tends to overbook his midcard shit as well?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The Legit DMD said:


> *He used a modified pedigree to end the match. It's not a feeling at this point. BDon has been right since that shitty Pete Avalon match last winter.*


there is a massive difference between ‘i am turning into a heel and leaning into this perception as a gimmick’

and ‘i am a real life piece of shit using my backstage power to keep people down and push myself unworthily into the main event while burying better talents’

the one is a tv character you boo and the other one is just a POS - bdon and others have been arguing he’s the latter

i’m saying he’s the former


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but everybody keeps telling me ‘use dynamite, rampage and ppv only’ / now you use dark / elevation too
> 
> which is it?


But AEW uses Dark and Elevation numbers all the time for Wins and Losses to propel guys up the card.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> I hate Jericho and have said all year that he and Cody have become leeches. Go back to 2019, and you’ll see that I was calling it the Cody and Jericho show even then when Omega and Mox clearly had the fans interest yet none of the tv time.
> 
> Jericho will forever have Tony Khan in his pocket for signing with AEW. I can’t do anything about that, but I fully admit that Jericho is the stingiest on-air character in the company.
> 
> ...


and MJF? Same amount of gimmick matches


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> But AEW uses Dark and Elevation numbers all the time for Wins and Losses to propel guys up the card.


of course - but we’re arguing ‘perception of main event guys’ here aren’t we?

and rampage, dynamite, ppv tv time

i‘m 100% happy to include dark and elevation in my stats - it makes life easier - just let me know

it’ll change nothing about cody or the other main guys - it’ll just make lower card guys even look better


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> But AEW uses Dark and Elevation numbers all the time for Wins and Losses to propel guys up the card.


We all know Cody would never work on a YouTube show. Remember, JBL was only champ for a year because HHH did not want to work Tuesdays.


----------



## White Glove Test (Jun 19, 2007)

That was very interesting booking. It certainly makes me wonder if there is a heel turn to come soon for Cody. You can’t keep telling the audience your a babyface when none of the fans support you. He needs an edgy heel
Character to get over. Maybe he can talk about guns to get over like Arn did.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Two Sheds said:


> We all know Cody would never work on a YouTube show. Remember, JBL was only champ for a year because HHH did not want to work Tuesdays.


Cody works Dark with Fuego in a tag team


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> and MJF? Same amount of gimmick matches


And he’s someone that the company should WANT to be at the forefront! He’s 24 fucking years old and likely to carry the company when Omega, Mox, and the like take a backseat. If you let him just rot in the midcard performing midcard acts, guess what? He will be labeled a midcard act by those who don’t know him.

Cody has name recognition. He can fuck off in the midcard and not hurt himself. Look at Mox. Compare what Mox did this year to Cody. Forget the stats. One clearly took a backseat while not affecting what was going on higher up the card, and the other took a backseat and chose to use every fucking narrative from his school turning on him to country vs country to try and maintain his spot in the hierarchy of the company.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

To be honest, I am just looking forward to another potential weekly open challenge. 👀


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

I’m nearly done with this conversation. You are arguing something that we aren’t even upset about.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Cody works Dark with Fuego in a tag team


Really? Link?


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but everybody keeps telling me ‘use dynamite, rampage and ppv only’ / now you use dark / elevation too
> 
> which is it?


You're the one that's arguing in favor of not using context and presentation of level, just looking at numbers. Just off numbers I'm too assume the Varsity Blondes are a big deal than Jurassic Express.... Or should I be using more than that to figure out which team actually means more and is presented as the bigger deal


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

RapShepard said:


> You're the one that's arguing in favor of not using context and presentation of level, just looking at numbers. Just off numbers I'm too assume the Varsity Blondes are a big deal than Jurassic Express.... Or should I be using more than that to figure out which team actually means more and is presented as the bigger deal


Stop making sense.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

RapShepard said:


> You're the one that's arguing in favor of not using context and presentation of level, just looking at numbers. Just off numbers I'm too assume the Varsity Blondes are a big deal than Jurassic Express.... Or should I be using more than that to figure out which team actually means more and is presented as the bigger deal


You are forgetting the team with the best record in AEW, the Gunn Club (yet, they are mysteriously not ranked. Wins and losses matter though!).


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Two Sheds said:


> Really? Link?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> And he’s someone that the company should WANT to be at the forefront! He’s 24 fucking years old and likely to carry the company when Omega, Mox, and the like take a backseat. If you let him just rot in the midcard performing midcard acts, guess what? He will be labeled a midcard act by those who don’t know him.
> 
> Cody has name recognition. He can fuck off in the midcard and not hurt himself. Look at Mox. Compare what Mox did this year to Cody. Forget the stats. One clearly took a backseat while not affecting what was going on higher up the card, and the other took a backseat and chose to use every fucking narrative from his school turning on him to country vs country to try and maintain his spot in the hierarchy of the company.


look at Jon Moxley.... ok, I will

*11 Main events in 2021* vs Cody's 4

more matches too / better win / loss

only thing he is worse than Cody is PPV wins by 1 match


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that’s bull - people are arguing more with less
> 
> lets say i collate all the tv time, and debuts and promo time - you think these lads and yourself will suddenly go ‘oh, guess he’s right, Cody is not like HHH irl’
> 
> ...


But I’m not discussing it with ‘people’ I’m discussing it with you and if you don’t present all the facts then I cannot accept your conclusion.

I hate Jericho as much now but Jericho earned his status by being a huge star outside of AEW and that’s why he gets more slack with fans. He’s also not an EVP and therefore doesn’t have to do what’s best for the company i.e. not halting the momentum of monster debutants and ending young stars title reigns before they’ve been given a chance to shine


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Erik. said:


>


I do not see Cody Rhodes in that video...


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> look at Jon Moxley.... ok, I will
> 
> *11 Main events in 2021* vs Cody's 4
> 
> ...


And again, it isn’t about “main event” when AEW often puts the biggest story of the night on first. You’re completely taking out context here, man.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> You're the one that's arguing in favor of not using context and presentation of level, just looking at numbers. Just off numbers I'm too assume the Varsity Blondes are a big deal than Jurassic Express.... Or should I be using more than that to figure out which team actually means more and is presented as the bigger deal


no, I am the one who included Dark and Elevation in the start of this whole thing and people told me 'only use Dynamite and Rampage and PPV' and using dark / elevation was 'padding'

i am 100% fine using either / or - the points will show the same

which would you prefer Rap? and more importantly, which one of these do you think makes the argument 'this talent is hogging the spotlight' - winning on PPVs, Dynamite and Rampage or winning on Dark and Elevation


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> And again, it isn’t about “main event” when AEW often puts the biggest story of the night on first. You’re completely taking out context here, man.


how many times did Cody start Dynamite or Rampage then in 2021?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Hitman1987 said:


> But I’m not discussing it with ‘people’ I’m discussing it with you and if you don’t present all the facts then I cannot accept your conclusion.
> 
> I hate Jericho as much now but Jericho earned his status by being a huge star outside of AEW and that’s why he gets more slack with fans. He’s also not an EVP and therefore doesn’t have to do what’s best for the company i.e. not halting the momentum of monster debutants and ending young stars title reigns before they’ve been given a chance to shine


ok, how about you collate the tv times etc and make a counter argument?

IMO my picture is good enough, if you want to disprove it, come with your own that isn't just about 'feelings'


----------



## Jedah (Jul 16, 2017)

Jnewt said:


> He is my only complaint from AEW. I love the show top to bottom but it's just become a meme at this point. Over 3 years and the only people he's put over is MJF, Jericho, and Darby. And Darby is debatable because he had to get 3 over on Darby before he gave Darby the win. I'm so glad it was spoiled so that I could just skip rampage this week. Is it heat? yes. Is it heat to get me to watch him get beat up? nope. Same with Charlotte, it isn't even a contemplation anymore, just change the channel or go to bed and turn on netflix. Miro was on such a fucking roll and I knew the second they took the belt off of him it was just a transition for Cody to get his belt back.


Yeah, this is why the "heel who doesn't know he's a heel" isn't good. It just breaks the illusion and makes everyone look worse.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> I’m nearly done with this conversation. You are arguing something that we aren’t even upset about.


not upset about 



bdon said:


> Motherfucker, look here. I have ALWAYS said it isn’t about wins and goddamn losses. It is about Cody, the supposed guy holding himself to midcard titles, presenting himself and HIS title (only when he has it) as being as important as the World Title and its champion. Miro and Sammy and Darby had “matches” without any overbooked bullshit storytelling devices to drum up interest. Cody gets glitz and fucking glamour, storytelling devices with the “oh, the weekl y challenge is draining him” while they got matches on fucking Rampage.
> 
> Fuck you, man. You want to pretend he books himself like a midcard champ the same way as them, then fuck you. I won’t waste my time discussing nuances shit with you anymore.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

What is this dude rambling about


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

shandcraig said:


> What is this dude rambling about


should i get my crayons out to explain?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> not upset about


I’m not upset about the WINS AND LOSSES, man. We’re pissed about the presentation of a clear midcard act that refuses to be presented like a midcard act.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> should i get my crayons out to explain?



it seems to be that is your level, so maybe so.


----------



## Missionary Chief (Aug 1, 2021)

That wasn't a bad match. Cody's back looks like shit.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

bdon said:


> I’m not upset about the WINS AND LOSSES, man. We’re pissed about the presentation of a clear midcard act that refuses to be presented like a midcard act.



we wasting our time with this clown. Hes defending everything aew in other threads too.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> I’m not upset about the WINS AND LOSSES, man. We’re pissed about the presentation of a clear midcard act that refuses to be presented like a midcard act.


and i’m giving you examples of him being presented 100% the same as other people on his level which you are disregarding


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

shandcraig said:


> it seems to be that is your level, so maybe so.


nope, my level is the spreadsheets and you can’t seem to grasp the points therein


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

shandcraig said:


> we wasting our time with this clown. Hes defending everything aew in other threads too.


‘defending everything’ the hyperbolic statement used by ones who can’t argue the points

well then you’re ‘attacking everything’ lol


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no, I am the one who included Dark and Elevation in the start of this whole thing and people told me 'only use Dynamite and Rampage and PPV' and using dark / elevation was 'padding'
> 
> i am 100% fine using either / or - the points will show the same
> 
> which would you prefer Rap? and more importantly, which one of these do you think makes the argument 'this talent is hogging the spotlight' - winning on PPVs, Dynamite and Rampage or winning on Dark and Elevation


I'd prefer we address it like we all have common sense and know how wrestling booking works. Baron Corbin, Sheamus, Damien Priest, and Cesaro have had a fuck ton more TV time, matches, and main events than Goldberg PPV or otherwise. 

With just numbers and no context Goldberg is 1-2 this year with no main events and probably an hour of total TV time. Yet we know with context he's a big damn deal for what he does do.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

RapShepard said:


> I'd prefer we address it like we all have common sense and know how wrestling booking works. Baron Corbin, Sheamus, Damien Priest, and Cesaro have had a fuck ton more TV time, matches, and main events than Goldberg PPV or otherwise.
> 
> With just numbers and no context Goldberg is 1-2 this year with no main events and probably an hour of total TV time. Yet we know with context he's a big damn deal for what he does do.


I think Klondike Brock has no TV main event matches in like 15 years.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> I'd prefer we address it like we all have common sense and know how wrestling booking works. Baron Corbin, Sheamus, Damien Priest, and Cesaro have had a fuck ton more TV time, matches, and main events than Goldberg PPV or otherwise.
> 
> With just numbers and no context Goldberg is 1-2 this year with no main events and probably an hour of total TV time. Yet we know with context he's a big damn deal for what he does do.


what context do you think is missing from the figures I presented that says Cody is rHHHodes as opposed to Rhodes?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> and i’m giving you examples of him being presented 100% the same as other people on his level which you are disregarding


You presented him as being equal to 4 other guys who have all been getting pushed up the card in a year that Cody was supposedly going down the card. All guys who won titles, minus MJF who had to spend 9 months letting Jericho leech off his star power.

So yeah, no you didn’t place him against guys on his level. You placed him against guys that are SUPPOSED to be above him the card.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> there is a massive difference between ‘i am turning into a heel and leaning into this perception as a gimmick’
> 
> and ‘i am a real life piece of shit using my backstage power to keep people down and push myself unworthily into the main event while burying better talents’
> 
> ...


*He's both. AEW is not oblivious. Tony Khan is the most sensitive MFer in the history of wrestling who reads and responds to all criticism. They know exactly how he's perceived and they are milking it, and he's also burying his peers.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The Legit DMD said:


> *He's both. AEW is not oblivious. Tony Khan is the most sensitive MFer in the history of wrestling who reads and responds to all criticism. They know exactly how he's perceived and they are milking it, and he's also burying his peers.*


who did he bury? Malakai? 

already building again, won't drop down the card

Andrade? was levels below Cody

Sammy? had a lukewarm TNT run, will not drop down the card


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> You presented him as being equal to 4 other guys who have all been getting pushed up the card in a year that Cody was supposedly going down the card. All guys who won titles, minus MJF who had to spend 9 months letting Jericho leech off his star power.
> 
> So yeah, no you didn’t place him against guys on his level. You placed him against guys that are SUPPOSED to be above him the card.


are you telling me Hangman, Darby Allin, MJF an Miro are all ABOVE Cody??!?

like really? I mean, I love all of them, but that is a ridiculous statement

you really think this dude should be low card don't you

which means you are too biased to start with


edit> this is what I want


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475137774793609217


----------



## mazzah20 (Oct 10, 2019)

Andrade AEW career bombed the moment he took off his mask on the way to the ring.

But pretty much everyone who fueds with Cody goes into the abyss afterwards. Even when Darby won the title, he was in the friggin cheapseats playing his GameBoy while Cody was front and centre making promos and getting involved with Shaq and Cheese.

So you just know this run is going to be about him "elevating" the ego title, and then when it is dropped it will go back down again in importance.

That's the whole issue.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*Even TNT executives know how much Cody is hated. The difference is they want all the smoke from fans.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474938545311604737







*


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what context do you think is missing from the figures I presented that says Cody is rHHHodes as opposed to Rhodes?


That his position of power out of kayfabe is felt to be the driving force for his prominence in kayfabe. Similar to HHH his level ups in kayfabe seem to correlate between becoming close friends with people of power in his case The Elite and then Tony. 

If Cody wasn't in The Elite and and EVP would he be a 3x champion TNT, with 12/14 PPV appearances, who's always in a feud of note? Or does he maybe get presented like an Archer or Pac or Cage? If he's not The Elite and an EVP does he get the reality show and game show.

These are just feelings he'll continue to foster. Like say, I enjoy Cody. But how folk get there isn't that hard to see.


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ok, how about you collate the tv times etc and make a counter argument?
> 
> IMO my picture is good enough, if you want to disprove it, come with your own that isn't just about 'feelings'


I don’t need stats to verify my “feelings”, the crowds of every city AEW goes to does that for me when they boo an AEW founder and former face of the company out of the building every week. 

The crowd are reacting to Cody’s actions since AEW started, otherwise he would’ve been booed since day 1.

Undesirable -> Undeniable -> Unbearable


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

the guy said his thing is spreadsheets. we rest our case, he proved our point. Close the thread !


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> That his position of power out of kayfabe is felt to be the driving force for his prominence in kayfabe. Similar to HHH his level ups in kayfabe seem to correlate between becoming close friends with people of power in his case The Elite and then Tony.
> 
> If Cody wasn't in The Elite and and EVP would he be a 3x champion TNT, with 12/14 PPV appearances, who's always in a feud of note? Or does he maybe get presented like an Archer or Pac or Cage? If he's not The Elite and an EVP does he get the reality show and game show.
> 
> These are just feelings he'll continue to foster. Like say, I enjoy Cody. But how folk get there isn't that hard to see.



when you cant see all the bookings aspects of cody compared to everyone else than this conversation is pointless.

ps not talking about you @RapShepard


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Hitman1987 said:


> I don’t need stats to verify my “feelings”, the crowds of every city AEW goes to does that for me when they boo an AEW founder and former face of the company out of the building every week.
> 
> The crowd are reacting to Cody’s actions since AEW started, otherwise he would’ve been booed since day 1.
> 
> Undesirable -> Undeniable -> Unbearable


the difference is, they've been structuring that and its part of his character / heel turn

I'm fine with that, and i think he's gonna make an amazing heel - and I hope he turns heel and leans into it even more

but the reality of what is happening does not correlate with that being his off-screen persona at all. I see nowhere that he overshadows the card, pushes his friends above others, plays politics, uses his power to give himself unfair pushes - like what HHH was reported doing (and even HHH doing it is debatable, but that is not my fight to fight)

that is my argument - there is the character and IRL. He is 100% leaning into the character of it all

Bdon and others seem to think the character he is portraying on screen is IRL - and none of the figures back that up


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the difference is, they've been structuring that and its part of his character / heel turn
> 
> I'm fine with that, and i think he's gonna make an amazing heel - and I hope he turns heel and leans into it even more
> 
> ...



or they dont have half a brain and took them 3 years to notice his bullshit. Its ok it sometimes takes others even longer than that to get it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> That his position of power out of kayfabe is felt to be the driving force for his prominence in kayfabe. Similar to HHH his level ups in kayfabe seem to correlate between becoming close friends with people of power in his case The Elite and then Tony.
> 
> If Cody wasn't in The Elite and and EVP would he be a 3x champion TNT, with 12/14 PPV appearances, who's always in a feud of note? Or does he maybe get presented like an Archer or Pac or Cage? If he's not The Elite and an EVP does he get the reality show and game show.
> 
> These are just feelings he'll continue to foster. Like say, I enjoy Cody. But how folk get there isn't that hard to see.


how would you ever come to the scenario of what would be his realistic position if he wasn't part of the Elite?

Well, if you look at his WWE run, he was Intercontinental level with a lot of pushes

and he left and in ROH and on the Indies he was main event level with a good gimmick before the Bucks

there is absolutely no reason to think he would not be in the same spot without the Elite - they helped him / but he helped them too

remember, he started with TV while in WWE.


----------



## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so, now he should be lower card and supporting role as opposed to midcard / upper card
> 
> lol, you guys are grabbing at straws now


Yes, because there's been plenty of more over talent come in or develop in AEW since Cody started there. He's been passed by. So continuing to push him as an upper mid card act is something the audience is rejecting


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Randy Lahey said:


> Yes, because there's been plenty of more over talent come in or develop in AEW since Cody started there. He's been passed by. So continuing to push him as an upper mid card act is something the audience is rejecting


who in the lower card should be in his spot?


----------



## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> who in the lower card should be in his spot?


Moxley
Darby
Punk
BD
Kingston
Miro
Black
Page
Omega
MJF
Cole

That's 11 guys all clearly far more over than Cody Rhodes is, yet Cody has a title.

Putting a title, even a secondary title, on a guy as far down the totem pole as Cody is just dumb booking

Then you have other younger guys that could use a title to get them more established:

Sammy
Dante Martin
Daniel Garcia
Hook (tho he just started)
Ethan Page

As I said, where does Cody belong? Below all these guys.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Randy Lahey said:


> Moxley
> Darby
> Punk
> BD
> ...


Mox - spot above him
Darby - same spot
Punk - above him
BD - above him
Miro - same spot
Black - same spot
Page - above him
Omega - above him
MJF - same spot
Cole - lol

You are not arguing spot - you are saying 'these guys should get his TV time'

well, AEW rotates TV time, he's not getting more than any of them


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Randy Lahey said:


> Yes, because there's been plenty of more over talent come in or develop in AEW since Cody started there. He's been passed by. So continuing to push him as an upper mid card act is something the audience is rejecting


Yeah, but everyone in the "Elite" has been passed by better talent.


----------



## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Mox - spot above him
> Darby - same spot
> Punk - above him
> BD - above him
> ...


TV time isn't created equal. Guys feuding on TV for a title, vs guys feuding on tv in some lower feud isn't the same thing.

I don't know why you are lol about Adam Cole. Listen to his reactions vs Cody.

The quickest way to kill your hot product is to go against what the fans want. Look at WWE. We just have to pray TK can see that.

Cody's like the 15th most interesting/over whatever term you want to use for his character on the show. You don't put a title on the 15th guy.


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the difference is, they've been structuring that and its part of his character / heel turn
> 
> I'm fine with that, and i think he's gonna make an amazing heel - and I hope he turns heel and leans into it even more
> 
> ...


So their plan was to give Cody a big babyface return in a ladder match (when the boos started), have him cut a cure racism promo, cry on TV when he had a baby and have a USA vs foreign heel feud because they want him to get booed.

And as far as pushing friends goes, look no further than his wife, QT and his nightmare factory jobbers who got no business being on national TV.

I like you but can’t argue about this anymore.

I’m happy to have another ‘loser buys shit merch’ bet with you though.

I bet that a shoot interview will come out in the future confirming that Cody was not chosen above Jericho, Mox and Kenny to be the first 3 AEW champs and therefore he removed himself from world title picture to make sure he wasn’t the guy to eat pins from them and pushed himself as the face of the company and made his own title and pushed it as hard as the word title.

Do you accept?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Randy Lahey said:


> TV time isn't created equal. Guys feuding on TV for a title, vs guys feuding on tv in some lower feud isn't the same thing.
> 
> I don't know why you are lol about Adam Cole. Listen to his reactions vs Cody.
> 
> ...


dude what?

Cody is getting massive reactions

like nuclear


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Hitman1987 said:


> So their plan was to give Cody a big babyface return in a ladder match (when the boos started), have him cut a cure racism promo, cry on TV when he had a baby and have a USA vs foreign heel feud because they want him to get booed.
> 
> And as far as pushing friends goes, look no further than his wife, QT and his nightmare factory jobbers who got no business being on national TV.
> 
> ...


lol, sure - has to be a reputable source, ok?

ie> one of Kenny, Mox, Jericho, any other evp or a prominent backstage agent / person

chris harrington, qt marshall etc

what merch do you wanna buy? Lollll

joking, what merch should i buy?


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> how would you ever come to the scenario of what would be his realistic position if he wasn't part of the Elite?
> 
> Well, if you look at his WWE run, he was Intercontinental level with a lot of pushes
> 
> ...


And HHH had accomplishments before Stephanie, still doesn't change folk think he'd be slightly less to a lot less prominent without his backstage connections.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> And HHH had accomplishments before Stephanie, still doesn't change folk think he'd be slightly less to a lot less prominent without his backstage connections.


as a wrestler? I dunno - i give HHH props, the guy was talented.

i’d think he would be in a similar spot while he was 100% active / never doubt his politicking ability - even without marrying Stephanie

but that is a black hole of ‘what ifs’ i don’t want to go down / same with ‘what it Cody was never part of the Elite’ - cause that means people think that relationship was a one-way street, which it wasn’t - Kenny and the Bucks will tell you too / he brought and taught them a lot too


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> as a wrestler? I dunno - i give HHH props, the guy was talented.
> 
> i’d think he would be in a similar spot while he was 100% active / never doubt his politicking ability - even without marrying Stephanie
> 
> but that is a black hole of ‘what ifs’ i don’t want to go down / same with ‘what it Cody was never part of the Elite’ - cause that means people think that relationship was a one-way street, which it wasn’t - Kenny and the Bucks will tell you too / he brought and taught them a lot too


But that reality doesn't change fans perspective. If fans feel he got onto an already bubbling thing and then got a billionaire friend, well that's just what's felt. It ain't fair, but tis life.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> But that reality doesn't change fans perspective. If fans feel he got onto an already bubbling thing and then got a billionaire friend, well that's just what's felt. It ain't fair, but tis life.


i don‘t mind the perspective and i don‘t mind the character portrayal

what i mind is still arguing perspective when you get down to talking facts

otherwise it becomes a wishy washy ’live your own truth’ BS


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, sure - has to be a reputable source, ok?
> 
> ie> one of Kenny, Mox, Jericho, any other evp or a prominent backstage agent / person
> 
> ...


Is a spreadsheet a reputable enough source 😂😂😂 couldn’t resist sorry mate

You will be wearing some ‘HHH > Cody’ merch 😂😂😂


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i don‘t mind the perspective and i don‘t mind the character portrayal
> 
> what i mind is still arguing perspective when you get down to talking facts
> 
> otherwise it becomes a wishy washy ’live your own truth’ BS


But that's the thing, numbers alone don't tell the kayfabe story of importance. You mix his kayfabe importance with his outside perception and that is why folk feel how they do.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Hitman1987 said:


> Is a spreadsheet a reputable enough source 😂😂😂 couldn’t resist sorry mate
> 
> You will be wearing some ‘HHH > Cody’ merch 😂😂😂


lol - if you can find a retailer, i’ll buy it when that shoot interview comes out 

i’ll take a Chris Harrington spreadsheet, sure


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> But that's the thing, numbers alone don't tell the kayfabe story of importance. You mix his kayfabe importance with his outside perception and that is why folk feel how they do.


so what, you can’t argue against it no matter what?

well, how about i take this line then

’i feel different about it + i have some figures to back it up’

that is feelings + figures which should > just feelings


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - if you can find a retailer, i’ll buy it when that shoot interview comes out
> 
> i’ll take a Chris Harrington spreadsheet, sure


If it does not exist I will create it 😎

I’ll be in touch.


----------



## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude what?
> 
> Cody is getting massive reactions
> 
> like nuclear


Yeah the same channel changing we’re sick of you heat Roman Reigns got back in 2014-15.

You want fewer viewers to watch the show? Push guys the fans have no interest in watching


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

The Legit DMD said:


> *Even TNT executives know how much Cody is hated. The difference is they want all the smoke from fans.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474938545311604737
> View attachment 113786
> *


If TNT wasn’t aware of how much Cody is disliked then they are now.

A must read for any Cody haters.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Randy Lahey said:


> Yeah the same channel changing we’re sick of you heat Roman Reigns got back in 2014-15.
> 
> You want fewer viewers to watch the show? Push guys the fans have no interest in watching


people have great interest in watching Cody - especially a heel turn

its not like he takes up 30min of each show every week either


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> are you telling me Hangman, Darby Allin, MJF an Miro are all ABOVE Cody??!?
> 
> like really? I mean, I love all of them, but that is a ridiculous statement
> 
> ...


In Kayfabe and as far as who they were clearly trying to push, yes, all of those guys were above Cody for the year, yet he still made sure to get nearly as many gimmick matches as them and refused to act like a goddamn proper midcard act!


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

He has his own hashflag on Twitter. What a star.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

mazzah20 said:


> So you just know this run is going to be about him "elevating" the ego title, and then when it is dropped it will go back down again in importance.
> 
> That's the whole issue.


That’s what it is ALL about for me.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> In Kayfabe and as far as who they were clearly trying to push, yes, all of those guys were above Cody for the year, yet he still made sure to get nearly as many gimmick matches as them and refused to act like a goddamn proper midcard act!


he 100% acted like a midcard / upper carder

like 1000%

and those guys were of the same level as him - except Hangman who now got elevated above him


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

3venflow said:


> He has his own hashflag on Twitter. What a star.
> 
> View attachment 113796


Miro has about 7x more mentions and 1/100th the screen time.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

So, Cody doesn’t have say in always being the debuting new guy’s first opponent, @LifeInCattleClass ? Why was Cody begging for Bryan to be his opponent at All-In when that possibility was there, yet when Bryan (a guy with much more star power and clout) able to handpick his opponent in Omega? Why are all these guys who are just happy to be staying on tv or finally getting on TV working with Cody first and never doing any follow-ups? I suppose they didn’t want to wrestle Omega like every other person admits in interviews.

Something like 16 people have debuted opposite of Cody, the Gatekeeper.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

mazzah20 said:


> Andrade AEW career bombed the moment he took off his mask on the way to the ring.
> 
> But pretty much everyone who fueds with Cody goes into the abyss afterwards. Even when Darby won the title, he was in the friggin cheapseats playing his GameBoy while Cody was front and centre making promos and getting involved with Shaq and Cheese.
> 
> ...


the TNT title took a prominent spot many many times in 2021

it is the facto 'when defended it goes on last' title on tv / it has great matches, good stories, great open challenges

not sure what you're on about

also - Darby had a stellar and prominent 2021 - he was definitely featured heavily


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> he 100% acted like a midcard / upper carder
> 
> like 1000%
> 
> and those guys were of the same level as him - except Hangman who now got elevated above him


Those guys were goddamn champions this year, man!


----------



## Jdx250 (Dec 15, 2021)

HeBrokehimintwo22 said:


> Lol typical Cody "HHH" Rhodes.


Rhodes is not even a pimple on HHH’s ass


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> So, Cody doesn’t have say in always being the debuting new guy’s first opponent, @LifeInCattleClass ? Why was Cody begging for Bryan to be his opponent at All-In when that possibility was there, yet when Bryan (a guy with much more star power and clout) able to handpick his opponent in Omega? Why are all these guys who are just happy to be staying on tv or finally getting on TV working with Cody first and never doing any follow-ups? I suppose they didn’t want to wrestle Omega like every other person admits in interviews.
> 
> Something like 16 people have debuted opposite of Cody, the Gatekeeper.


how many debuts did Cody face in 2021?

i count 2 - Malakai and Shaq

am I missing any?

how many debuts were there in AEW?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> Those guys were goddamn champions this year, man!


not all year budddy


----------



## ajmaf625 (Dec 7, 2007)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the TNT title took a prominent spot many many times in 2021
> 
> it is the facto 'when defended it goes on last' title on tv / it has great matches, good stories, great open challenges
> 
> ...


It really wasn't prominent at all, actually completely forgot Darby was champ. Miro too, was champ for a good amount of time, lost, and is feuding with God a nice throwback to WWE 2006 when Vince feuded with HBK and God. But since you have a hard on for Cody as I've seen throughout this thread why do you think its necessary for Cody to be a three time TNT champ (the only 3 time champ in AEW) when there roster is completely stacked with a ton of other worthy title holder. Please explain!


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> not all year budddy


No, but they were champs this year, so in terms of prominence, they remain up there. Cody hadn’t been a champ for over a year, and yet he was able to do just as many gimmick matches while also working opposite a celebrity.

Malakai Black, Jade Cargill, Shaq, Anthony Ogogo

Turned on by his school (a week after Jericho and MJF did the same exact story)

Country vs country


….for a midcard act. Where is Darby’s country vs country feud? Where is ANY feud for Miro?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

ajmaf625 said:


> *It really wasn't prominent at all, actually completely forgot Darby was champ. Miro too, was champ* for a good amount of time, lost, and is feuding with God a nice throwback to WWE 2006 when Vince feuded with HBK and God. But since you have a hard on for Cody as I've seen throughout this thread why do you think its necessary for Cody to be a three time TNT champ (the only 3 time champ in AEW) when there roster is completely stacked with a ton of other worthy title holder. Please explain!


i think the bolded part is more a 'you' thing than an AEW thing - if I run down Darby's year you'll go 'oooh.... stellar year' and remember things you forgot

On Cody being TNT champ - I think its a nice step in his heel turn / if you don't make the guy legit, it doesn't mean anything when he's beaten again


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> No, but they were champs this year, so in terms of prominence, they remain up there. Cody hadn’t been a champ for over a year, and yet he was able to do just as many gimmick matches while also working opposite a celebrity.
> 
> Malakai Black, Jade Cargill, Shaq, Anthony Ogogo
> 
> ...


*Darby in 2021*

30 matches / 26 wins in prominent matches / 10 title matches

lets run them down

*Gimmick matches*

Street Fight (cinematic) v Starks and Cage - year long feud
No DQ / falls count anywhere v Matt Hardy in a mini-feud for the TNT title
Handicap match v Scorpio / Ethan feud
Coffin match - Ethan Page

*Prominent Feuds / debuts 2021*

Feud v Matt Hardy for TNT title (mini-feud I admit)
v Team Taz / cinematics and all
v Ethan Page, culmination in a coffin match - 3 month feud
program v Punk / big debut
Darby / Sting v FTR feud

TONS of video promos and backstage segments


look me in my eye and tell me that isn't a stellar fucking year - much better than Cody's

*Miro in 2021*

15 matches / 11 wins / 10 title matches

*Gimmick matches*

Arcade Anarchy

*Prominent Feuds 2021*

v Best Friends / 3 months
rest of his time TNT defences / of which prominent ones with promos and heat were Lance Archer/ Eddie Kingston

TONS of promos - like, a lot a lot

Whole neck storyline going on 7 months +


while not as strong as Darby, his promo time gave him a very good 2021 - on par with Cody I would say


----------



## DUSTY 74 (Aug 11, 2021)

🤣


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

DUSTY 74 said:


> View attachment 113798
> 
> 
> 🤣



he might as well break a thousand guitars, because in comparison he hasn't drawn a dime.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

DUSTY 74 said:


> View attachment 113798
> 
> 
> 🤣


Is his grandfather 12 years older than his father? Weird family.


----------



## Peerless (Aug 28, 2014)

I can't wait for the moment when an elite mic worker top guy buries him and then proceeds to beat him without switching wins.

The only two who have top guy cred and can shoot on the mic are Punk and Moxley. One of them need to expose Cody.


----------



## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

Hitman1987 said:


> View attachment 113744
> 
> View attachment 113745


This guys face makes me sick. He's basically gonna play a forced version of the 2006 John Cena role. The funny thing is none of this was planned and his massive ego was started to get exposed by fans. With this new gimmick he's about to portray it's basically gonna be a huge reward for him by making him the biggest deal in AEW.


----------



## Vyer (May 12, 2013)

Wow...13 pages on Cody winning. He must have really hit the big time.


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

TheDraw said:


> This guys face makes me sick. He's basically gonna play a forced version of the 2006 John Cena role. The funny thing is none of this was planned and his massive ego was started to get exposed by fans. With this new gimmick he's about to portray it's basically gonna be a huge reward for him by making him the biggest deal in AEW.


All Rhodes lead to Cody 😎


----------



## Kroem (Feb 15, 2021)

Whatever they're doing, it's must see TV right now! You just have to see what is going to happen next and what sort of reaction it will get.
I'm really hoping we get the "I didn't abondon the fans, they abandoned me!" promo eventually, as I really think it will blow the roof off!


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Thoughts?


----------



## DUD (Feb 21, 2021)

I couldn't think of a better Champion in all of Wrestling right now.

We are seeing one of the greatest stories play out in front of our very own eyes.


----------



## DUD (Feb 21, 2021)

DUSTY 74 said:


> View attachment 113798
> 
> 
> 🤣


How did you find my burner handle.


----------



## iarwain (Apr 22, 2009)

I think Cody's a heel now, it's just a different kind of heel. Sort of like when Kurt Angle started out, he's the "obnoxious babyface" type of heel.


----------



## Ameer Patel (May 30, 2019)

3venflow said:


> Thoughts?


This sums up my thoughts perfectly, how can people not see all the clues? The Homelander outfit, the teased Pedigrees, the little aloof smiles he does, the over the top entrance.

It's almost like the story is a bit too advanced for some people - the pay off will be him winning the world title against a beloved baby face


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> as a wrestler? I dunno - i give HHH props, the guy was talented.
> 
> i’d think he would be in a similar spot while he was 100% active / never doubt his politicking ability - even without marrying Stephanie
> 
> but that is a black hole of ‘what ifs’ i don’t want to go down / same with ‘what it Cody was never part of the Elite’ - cause that means people think that relationship was a one-way street, which it wasn’t - Kenny and the Bucks will tell you too / he brought and taught them a lot too



Hooking up with Steph certainly helped HHH out a lot but the two things that got HHH to the top was:

1. Being close friends with HBK which gave him a lot of clout, especially once the rest of the Clique left. He already had clout even in 1997 during the Screwjob.

2. Having a great look that made him a very credible heel.

His in-ring career wouldn’t have been significantly different without Steph. He wouldn’t have the cozy backstage gigs though but that’s pretty irrelevant.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

3venflow said:


> Thoughts?


Spot-on

make no mistake, him taking the title off a babyface says a lot

he’ll be facing more babyfaces going forward


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Let’s pretend it is a heel turn, who has benefitted from it? The story sucks, because no one has benefitted from it.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Spot-on
> 
> make no mistake, him taking the title off a babyface says a lot
> 
> he’ll be facing more babyfaces going forward


You said the same thing when he was facing Jungle Boy over a year ago. Lmao


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Being a heel that thinks tbeyre this mega baby face that believes he's treating the people with flamed table spots and 'great matches' is fully self aware.

It's actually.... Somewhat smart.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> You said the same thing when he was facing Jungle Boy over a year ago. Lmao


it astounds me that the dude who could follow all the nuances of the Kenny / Hangman story for 2 years is struggling with this long term storytelling


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

I’m going to play along that this is his version of long-term storytelling: if he was telling a good story with this heel turn, I’d be more inclined to take a wait and see approach. 

He lacks psychology in his stories and just DOES shit without thinking of the effect it will have on his character and those around him. His character remains unchanged after 3 years in AEW, and his wins/losses don’t affect the world in which his character is based. Nothing impacts the character, which is where you draw real emotion: watching the character’s trials and tribulations, seeing them at their highest and lowest.

For instance, the Malakai story, if you remember @LifeInCattleClass, I had hoped that it would lead to Cody taking the L, not getting his W back, and be a springboard towards him having to hit rock bottom.

The effect it had on the character was that he done one or two vignettes and came right back and got his W. No internal conflict to drive the story, no consequences to the character. Just take some L’s and get a W without giving the story time to breath.

He took those L’s and is now TV champ. How does that do anything for the story, our antagonist, or the ancillary characters that come into contact with him along the way?

Yes, I give Cody shit, but I have been consistent with what I want in wrestling. Tell a good story with human emotion that doesn’t require me having to feel like I’m watching a “show”, ie invisible camera bullshit.

If Cody would just let the goddamn moments in this supposed long-term booking breath, then maybe it would be good. Otherwise this is just drawn out bullshit for drawn out bullshit’s sake.

Capiche?


----------



## Brad Boyd (Jan 28, 2020)

Fearless Viper said:


> I don't get why people hate the guy. As long as he's not hogging the main title then all is good. It's obvious that Cody is trying to the next Cena/Roman who gets any reaction wherever part of the cards their in.


Honestly I have no problem with him but the entire audience rejects him. If he doesn't turn heel at any point in 2022, then cody can fuck off.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it astounds me that the dude who could follow all the nuances of the Kenny / Hangman story for 2 years is struggling with this long term storytelling


A Kenny Omega story is a little more nuanced and complex, ie GOOD, than a Cody rHHHodes one.

We ALL see the tiny hints and crumbs that Cody has left along the way, but Hansel and Gretel never actually get lost in this story, never find themselves in peril at the witch’s cottage, and just end up back home, safe and sound. Every time.

That is not a good story. Hah


----------



## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

Brad Boyd said:


> Honestly I have no problem with him but the entire audience rejects him.


Exactly. The audience flat out does not want Cody on the show. Heel, face, or indifferent. They hate him, they hate his wife, and they hate the nightmare factory.

Literally the only guy out of his entire faction that the audience can still tolerate is Arn Anderson.

Claiming Cody has heel heat is ignorant. He has the type of heat of a bad comedian that gets booed off the stage.

Comparing the heat Cody gets to a true heel heat like MJF is night and day


----------



## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

What a load of balls. Punishing sammi for recent bad press maybe?


----------



## phatbob426 (Feb 6, 2010)

HeBrokehimintwo22 said:


> Lol typical Cody "HHH" Rhodes.


Speaking of this did anyone else get the impression that when he won with the Tiger Driver that he was faking for the Pedigree at first?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Ameer Patel said:


> This sums up my thoughts perfectly, how can people not see all the clues? The Homelander outfit, the teased Pedigrees, the little aloof smiles he does, the over the top entrance.
> 
> It's almost like the story is a bit too advanced for some people - the pay off will be him winning the world title against a beloved baby face


At this point, I am expecting him to bring out HHH and give him a huge hug like when Vince and Bischoff had theirs. Either that or he removes his Cody mask and HHH is underneath.


----------



## Brad Boyd (Jan 28, 2020)

Randy Lahey said:


> Exactly. The audience flat out does not want Cody on the show. Heel, face, or indifferent. They hate him, they hate his wife, and they hate the nightmare factory.
> 
> Literally the only guy out of his entire faction that the audience can still tolerate is Arn Anderson.
> 
> ...


It feels like a Cena type of heat but cena was a legit badass and was over as a face at one point. So those two things arent comparable i suppose. Only so cause Codys being booed as a face.


----------



## phatbob426 (Feb 6, 2010)

thisissting said:


> What a load of balls. Punishing sammi for recent bad press maybe?


As much as I hate Cody winning the TNT Championship for a third time, if THIS is what it is then I'm all for it. Sammy Guevara took up TV time on national television on AEW's flagship television program to propose to his long-time girlfriend and then he dumped his girlfriend for Tay Conti.

If AEW and Cody stripping Sammy of the TNT title is their way of getting back at him for wasting their national TV time on TNT, then I'm all for it.


----------



## phatbob426 (Feb 6, 2010)

IronMan8 said:


> Cody's finishing move symbolised a foreshadowed heel turn.
> 
> In a promo last month he teased "using another move instead" with the double arms hooked as a reference to turning heel by becoming AEW's version of HHH.
> 
> ...


It's just like AEW to present this swerve. Just when you thought we were getting an homage to HHH with a Pedigree, we got an homage to Excalibur instead with a freaking Tiger Driver. LOL


----------



## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

phatbob426 said:


> As much as I hate Cody winning the TNT Championship for a third time, if THIS is what it is then I'm all for it. Sammy Guevara took up TV time on national television on AEW's flagship television program to propose to his long-time girlfriend and then he dumped his girlfriend for Tay Conti.
> 
> If AEW and Cody stripping Sammy of the TNT title is their way of getting back at him for wasting their national TV time on TNT, then I'm all for it.


AEW love to not hurt people's feelings so two of their wrestlers cheating on a nice innocent lass is a bad look for them. You could tell sammi was pissed with the angle in his promo. When was this match first mooted was it after or around the time of the bad press?


----------



## Wridacule (Aug 23, 2018)

Nobody wants to punch sammy's stupid face more than I do. but it's nobody's business who he chooses to be with! Any man condeming him needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves if a woman who looked like Tay was into you, how easy it would be to stay faithful. 

The internet can be so fucking dumb sometimes...


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

bdon said:


> I’m going to play along that this is his version of long-term storytelling: if he was telling a good story with this heel turn, I’d be more inclined to take a wait and see approach.
> 
> He lacks psychology in his stories and just DOES shit without thinking of the effect it will have on his character and those around him. His character remains unchanged after 3 years in AEW, and his wins/losses don’t affect the world in which his character is based. Nothing impacts the character, which is where you draw real emotion: watching the character’s trials and tribulations, seeing them at their highest and lowest.
> 
> ...



if he was good at psychology all his feuds would not be forgettable.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

thisissting said:


> AEW love to not hurt people's feelings so two of their wrestlers cheating on a nice innocent lass is a bad look for them. You could tell sammi was pissed with the angle in his promo. When was this match first mooted was it after or around the time of the bad press?



they didnt even give sammy a chance. same shit is happening with hangman. Just utter boring stupid booking and lack of any creative. You cant blame the talent for that.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Gwi1890 said:


> So I guess Hook vs Cody happening


My God I really cannot stand Tony Khan. what a damn geek


----------



## Jnewt (Jan 12, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Cody is 15 - 7 in 2021, but i guess nobody will talk about that
> 
> meaning he had matches on 42% of the weeks (22 matches in 52 weeks) / and 21% of all shows 104 Dynamites and 4 ppvs
> 
> ...


Another way to look at it, He has a total of 3 1v1 losses in 2021. To the debuting Black and Andrade, both of whom he defeated in star spangled fashion in the main event of each respective show to end each feud.


----------



## .christopher. (Jan 14, 2014)

Wow. 14 pages in less than a day. This is like prime wrestlingforum from back in t'day.

Cody is on another level.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so what, you can’t argue against it no matter what?
> 
> well, how about i take this line then
> 
> ...


Figures just aren't really relevant in this case. You can want them to be, but they'd only be relevant if you're talking popularity or unpopular. 



Ameer Patel said:


> This sums up my thoughts perfectly, how can people not see all the clues? The Homelander outfit, the teased Pedigrees, the little aloof smiles he does, the over the top entrance.
> 
> It's almost like the story is a bit too advanced for some people - the pay off will be him winning the world title against a beloved baby face






Erik. said:


> Being a heel that thinks tbeyre this mega baby face that believes he's treating the people with flamed table spots and 'great matches' is fully self aware.
> 
> It's actually.... Somewhat smart.






LifeInCattleClass said:


> it astounds me that the dude who could follow all the nuances of the Kenny / Hangman story for 2 years is struggling with this long term storytelling


This isn't long term storytelling, he's been acting this way from the beginning. It just now comes with some boos. Cody has been cocky and sure of himself the entire time, it's not like he's slowly becoming an asshole or slowly becoming more elaborate with his entrances and shit.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Jnewt said:


> Another way to look at it, He has a total of 3 1v1 losses in 2021. To the debuting Black and Andrade, both of whom he defeated in star spangled fashion in the main event of each respective show to end each feud.


still worse than a Hangman for instance who only lost to Cage and immediately got his win back


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> still worse than a Hangman for instance who only lost to Cage and immediately got his win back


Is that the same Hangman who had the biggest push of his career in 2021 and is the current AEW World Champion.

I’m really surprised he had a better singles record than a mid card guy who hasn’t held a title in 2021 🤔

p.s. Good morning


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Hitman1987 said:


> Is that the same Hangman who had the biggest push of his career in 2021 and is the current AEW World Champion.
> 
> I’m really surprised he had a better singles record than a mid card guy who hasn’t held a title in 2021 🤔
> 
> p.s. Good morning


he has held a title - the tnt title 😏 

is Hangman a bigger star than Cody all things considered?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> This isn't long term storytelling, he's been acting this way from the beginning. It just now comes with some boos. Cody has been cocky and sure of himself the entire time, it's not like he's slowly becoming an asshole or slowly becoming more elaborate with his entrances and shit.


Hasn’t changed?

He starts off in the beginning as a whitebread babyface - with pomp and circumstance, sure - but pure babyface

His whole ethos is ‘giving the fans what they want’

He then later does what he thinks the fans want, which is him never fighting for the title again, ie> abusing his power

Then he launches the TNT title and its a ‘give the fans what they want’ fest - open challenge, all comers etc etc

Slowly the heel starts seeping in / first major thing is the ‘Captain America’ bit - don’t forget, their stated plan was for this match to happen in the UK, but covid stopped those plans - convince me Cody thought with those speeches, facing Agogo in the UK he was planning to be face

but i digress, the boos keep being louder, he loses some, wins others and pins Malakai to end their feud

and there is the major turn - I would argue his heel turn, but i won’t cause I know the rank and file wants ‘more’ - so we’ll wait

he says ‘i will not turn heel’ - for the first time ever, he changes his ethos from ‘give the fans what they want’ to ‘doing what I want’

that is a major major change in the character


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> he has held a title - the tnt title 😏
> 
> is Hangman a bigger star than Cody all things considered?


How do you define a star and then I’ll explain?

And most world title reigns doesn’t count because Cody made it that way


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

bdon said:


> I’m going to play along that this is his version of long-term storytelling: if he was telling a good story with this heel turn, I’d be more inclined to take a wait and see approach.
> 
> He lacks psychology in his stories and just DOES shit without thinking of the effect it will have on his character and those around him. His character remains unchanged after 3 years in AEW, and his wins/losses don’t affect the world in which his character is based. Nothing impacts the character, which is where you draw real emotion: watching the character’s trials and tribulations, seeing them at their highest and lowest.
> 
> ...


Talk about it, @LifeInCattleClass


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> Talk about it, @LifeInCattleClass


just scroll up to see how his character has changed


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> just scroll up to see how his character has changed


If that is his idea of a character change and storytelling, then he’s even more overrated as a storyteller than I ever imagined.

I guess Vince and Roman Reigns are great storytellers as well, seeing as they did this same thing 5 years ago. Bravo Vince! Bravo!!


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

He's gone from being a baby face that's cheered.

To a heel that believes he's still a mega baby face.

It's almost funny.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Erik. said:


> He's gone from being a baby face that's cheered.
> 
> To a heel that believes he's still a mega baby face.
> 
> It's almost funny.


He still wrestles the same. His personality is unchanged.

Literally the only difference is that the fans boo him.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> If that is his idea of a character change and storytelling, then he’s even more overrated as a storyteller than I ever imagined.
> 
> I guess Vince and Roman Reigns are great storytellers as well, seeing as they did this same thing 5 years ago. Bravo Vince! Bravo!!


typical underselling

if you ever wonder why i don’t reply to you point by point, is that you make it obvious you don’t have an open mind to change about the subject

so its kinda pointless


----------



## Lurker V2.0 (Feb 2, 2021)

AEW has done a good job with some story arcs. The most annoying part though is hardcore fans using longterm story telling and subtleties as a crutch to retcon anything that isn’t working.

EDIT: Also I’ve never watched or heard of Homelander and I have no plans to look it up or watch it in order to “get” Cody’s character. Any traits related to a wrestler must be presented by the promotion themselves.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

bdon said:


> He still wrestles the same. His personality is unchanged.
> 
> Literally the only difference is that the fans boo him.


But that's what makes it somewhat fascinating.

Instead of a proper heel turn, which would probably end up getting him cheered.

He's working the same whilst still going on like he's some over mega baby face. It's like the 2021 way of actually getting heat beyond being a MJF heel and shitting on everything.

But he's also fully aware. Which is why if he cuts promos, he isn't pandering. And you can tell he absolutely loves it.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> typical underselling
> 
> if you ever wonder why i don’t reply to you point by point, is that you make it obvious you don’t have an open mind to change about the subject
> 
> so its kinda pointless


When your only evidence (in kayfabe) of a character change is him saying he won’t be a heel, then the evidence is pretty shitty, man. Your entire premise is him saying he won’t be a heel, and that he suddenly started booking himself to go over…

How is that good? How is that supposed to convince anyone that this is just a part of the character?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Erik. said:


> But that's what makes it somewhat fascinating.
> 
> Instead of a proper heel turn, which would probably end up getting him cheered.
> 
> ...


_eyeroll_

Be a good worker, and you won’t get cheered. Be a bad one, and the AEW crowd will still gladly play along to your heel tactics as we seen with Omega’s run.

This is just not good storytelling.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> When your only evidence (in kayfabe) of a character change is him saying he won’t be a heel, then the evidence is pretty shitty, man. Your entire premise is him saying he won’t be a heel, and that he suddenly started booking himself to go over…
> 
> How is that good? How is that supposed to convince anyone that this is just a part of the character?


oh, just change the whole ethos of the character which was parallel with AEW in ‘give the fans what they want’ to ’i do what i want’

no biggie, par for the course - nothing to see here, bdon says its bad storytelling


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

bdon said:


> _eyeroll_
> 
> Be a good worker, and you won’t get cheered. Be a bad one, and the AEW crowd will still gladly play along to your heel tactics as we seen with Omega’s run.
> 
> This is just not good storytelling.


Wrestling notoriously has one of the most fickle and stupid fanbases in entertainment.

If he flat out turned heel by criticising fans on the mic or destroying a baby face, he'd probably get an applause for giving fans what they have wanted to see.

But instead, it's literally easier for him to pretend he's this big mega baby face and continue acting like it because that's what gets him heat.

He's fully aware. And it's hilarious.

I wasn't even a fan of Cody but this TNT run might actually make me a fan just because of how funny it'll be.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> oh, just change the whole ethos of the character which was parallel with AEW in ‘give the fans what they want’ to ’i do what i want’
> 
> no biggie, par for the course - nothing to see here, bdon says its bad storytelling


You’re right in that he is doing what he wants, but that doesn’t mean it is in Kayfabe. He wants to be Hollywood and can’t be that as a heel. He’s simply protecting his character and refusing to be the heel. That is not in fucking Kayfabe. That is Cody Garrett Runnels refusing to risk his bigger picture aspirations.

Three months to turn. Three months.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)




----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

So, we’re going to have to play along that, in Kayfabe, Cody the out of Kayfabe EVP is holding back everyone.

The levels of reaching for Inception fans will go to defend Cody.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

He's intentionally pissing off the "smart fans that can't be worked".

And its hilarious.

In fact it's even more hilarious because we’ve got Arn Anderson is the middle just outright saying it every time Cody is on screen.

Refusing to "turn" heel whilst being constantly booed is heel shit.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Erik. said:


> He's intentionally pissing off the "smart fans that can't be worked".
> 
> And its hilarious.
> 
> In fact it's even more hilarious because we’ve got Arn Anderson is the middle just outright saying it every time Cody is on screen.


It isn’t a work if I purposely avoid watching him as I did Saturday and have done most of this year. It isn’t a work if it isn’t affecting the characters and universe around him. It isn’t a work if he is slowly killing the momentum of everyone under him.

And if it is, then we need to go back and really bow at the altar of Vince and Hunter and Cena and Roman, because they were really working the crowd by not giving them what they wanted for 2 decades. Kudos!


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Erik. said:


> He's intentionally pissing off the "smart fans that can't be worked".
> 
> And its hilarious.
> 
> ...


Yep. I'm really surprised how many people on this forum even can't catch on to what he is doing lol.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> You’re right in that he is doing what he wants, but that doesn’t mean it is in Kayfabe. He wants to be Hollywood and can’t be that as a heel. He’s simply protecting his character and refusing to be the heel. That is not in fucking Kayfabe. That is Cody Garrett Runnels refusing to risk his bigger picture aspirations.
> 
> Three months to turn. Three months.


bullshit - you can’t tell the difference between reality and tv when it comes to this guy

the fact that you can‘t means he’s working you most of all


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Klitschko said:


> Yep. I'm really surprised how many people on this forum even can't catch on to what he is doing lol.


Because they don't want to.

He knows he's a heel, but he's working people so hard into making them think he thinks he's a face.

It's so convoluted and fits his character perfectly.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Erik. said:


> Because they don't want to.
> 
> He knows he's a heel, but he's working people so hard into making them think he thinks he's a face.
> 
> It's so convoluted and fits his character perfectly.


No, I get that he is pandering to those who want him to be a heel, but he is also pandering to those who want him to be a face. He was doing this same shit last year when he was beating Jungle Boy, Sonny Kiss, etc. Teasing a heel turn is not a heel turn. Until he actually turns heel, he is just pandering to stay relevant.

I said before Hangman became champ that a Cody heel turn would be the most beneficial thing for Hangman. Beating Sammy furthers moves the timeline back for the heel turn payoff.

3 months or else, right @LifeInCattleClass?


----------



## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

Erik. said:


> He's intentionally pissing off the "smart fans that can't be worked".
> 
> And its hilarious.
> 
> ...


Not if the heel never actually acts like a heel. Cody never actually does any heelish things. No cheating, no forcing his way into matches, and he never has personal issues with any faces. Bo Dallas did the "I am a heel, but I believe that everyone loves me like a face" character way better. When Cody faced Darby, it was a face vs face feud and that was reinforced when they teamed up against Team Taz. Luckily Sting showed up and pulled Darby away from Cody. When Malakai debuted and was immediately cheered, what did Cody do? He tried to take Black's shine and made everything about how Cody needed to overcome the heel Black. Which for some reason included Arn with a glock and a fire barrel. Cody could have easily taken the first loss against Black and used that to change his character and become a heel, but instead the story was a face redemption one. Now with Sammy he pulled the "good luck, kid" line. Which seems like a dickish heel at first, but then the match happens and again, there is no change in Cody's attitude. Maybe that happens in the coming weeks, but history says otherwise.

On Wednesday, I will bet anyone that Cody cuts a promo talking about how the TNT title is the best title in the world, how he is happy to honor Brodie, and Sammy put up a really good fight. Sammy will come out, shake Cody's hand and they will have a rematch at the TBS debut. Cody will win that match clean and will not act like a heel at all, again. Rinse, repeat.

I know people want to believe that Cody is pulling off some elaborate plan, but the fans are the ones filling in the story gaps. Cody is just being himself and then letting the fans perceive him anyway they want. It is exactly that same shit that pissed me off about Cena. It is ok to be a tweener, but at some point you have to commit to a direction. Cena had the benefit of being big with kids, which led to him being a montary asset. His face and heel reactions were pretty clearly split between kids/women (face) and men (heel). Cody's are all over the place and change depending on his feud. From a monetary perspective, there is no consistency and can fluctuate his drawing power.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Prized Fighter said:


> Not if the heel never actually acts like a heel. Cody never actually does any heelish things. No cheating, no forcing his way into matches, and he never has personal issues with any faces. Bo Dallas did the "I am a heel, but I believe that everyone loves me like a face" character way better. When Cody faced Darby, it was a face vs face feud and that was reinforced when they teamed up against Team Taz. Luckily Sting showed up and pulled Darby away from Cody. When Malakai debuted and was immediately cheered, what did Cody do? He tried to take Black's shine and made everything about how Cody needed to overcome the heel Black. Which for some reason included Arn with a glock and a fire barrel. Cody could have easily taken the first loss against Black and used that to change his character and become a heel, but instead the story was a face redemption one. Now with Sammy he pulled the "good luck, kid" line. Which seems like a dickish heel at first, but then the match happens and again, there is no change in Cody's attitude. Maybe that happens in the coming weeks, but history says otherwise.
> 
> On Wednesday, I will bet anyone that Cody cuts a promo talking about how the TNT title is the best title in the world, how he is happy to honor Brodie, and Sammy put up a really good fight. Sammy will come out, shake Cody's hand and they will have a rematch at the TBS debut. Cody will win that match clean and will not act like a heel at all, again. Rinse, repeat.
> 
> I know people want to believe that Cody is pulling off some elaborate plan, but the fans are the ones filling in the story gaps. Cody is just being himself and then letting the fans perceive him anyway they want. It is exactly that same shit that pissed me off about Cena. It is ok to be a tweener, but at some point you have to commit to a direction. Cena had the benefit of being big with kids, which led to him being a montary asset. His face and heel reactions were pretty clearly split between kids/women (face) and men (heel). Cody's are all over the place and change depending on his feud. From a monetary perspective, there is no consistency and can fluctuate his drawing power.


Bravo! Fucking bravo!

Commit to something. Don’t act the part and pander to the audience then once the match is over go back to the “gosh, golly-gee” babyface pandering shit. That is not “working”. That is playing both sides of the fence to be as relevant as possible and doing anything in your power to get a reaction for yourself whilst not taking into consideration those on the roster around you that have to commit to a role in order to make the entire theatrics of this theater work.

Playing both sides of the coin does not do Hangman any favors.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> No, I get that he is pandering to those who want him to be a heel, but he is also pandering to those who want him to be a face. He was doing this same shit last year when he was beating Jungle Boy, Sonny Kiss, etc. Teasing a heel turn is not a heel turn. Until he actually turns heel, he is just pandering to stay relevant.
> 
> I said before Hangman became champ that a Cody heel turn would be the most beneficial thing for Hangman. Beating Sammy furthers moves the timeline back for the heel turn payoff.
> 
> 3 months or else, right @LifeInCattleClass?


2 years from when he declared ‘i won’t go for the main title’ - which i think is within the next 3 months


----------



## Whoanma (Apr 5, 2016)

I’ll just say F Cory RhHhodes and happy holidays to everyone else.


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

Don’t worry @bdon, Cody Rhodes, the son of one of the greatest bookers of all time is exposing the business on his reality TV show and in the middle of the ring of a company he helped create and has to tease the use of finishers and weapons of a guy he hates just to get a reaction from fans 😂😂😂


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 2 years from when he declared ‘i won’t go for the main title’ - which i think is within the next 3 months


Well, it has already been 2 years since that happened. He made that claim just prior to Full Gear 2019. The Halloween episode was in my home city of Charleston, which the wife and kids were at (I was stuck at fucking work), and after they all fell in love with wrestling, we watched the following Dynamite together when he made his stipulation.

I have no doubt that he will turn eventually (it’s wrestling after all), but I do not expect him to do so in the next 3 months.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Hitman1987 said:


> Don’t worry @bdon, Cody Rhodes, the son of one of the greatest bookers of all time is exposing the business on his reality TV show and in the middle of the ring of a company he helped create and has to tease the use of finishers and weapons of a guy he hates just to get a reaction from fans 😂😂😂


Maybe he is more like CM Punk than HHH: resorting to breaking the 4th wall constantly in order to get the big reactions.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Hasn’t changed?
> 
> He starts off in the beginning as a whitebread babyface - with pomp and circumstance, sure - but pure babyface
> 
> ...


You're Mr. Fantastic reaching out here. He was a cocky asshole who occasionally does heel shit in the ring from the beginning. Hell he's been saying we're beyond heels and faces from the beginning. So trying to say that him saying he won't turn heel is secretly his heel turn is you rewriting history because he's already shut that idea down in and out of kayfabe.

Argue his heel turn with actual heel turn material. Argue it with him actually being presented as the bad guy in a story. Because according to some he's been teasing an upcoming heel turn since the black hair return last year. 



Erik. said:


> But that's what makes it somewhat fascinating.
> 
> Instead of a proper heel turn, which would probably end up getting him cheered.
> 
> ...


Y'all really be reaching lol. "He turned heel, by being the exact same person and being presented the exact same". I'll be sure to save that next time the why Cena never turned question turns up.


----------



## BestInTheWorld22 (Nov 25, 2021)

jpickens said:


> All this does is give the TNT belt some relevancy.


Agree, Sammy's reign was a flop


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

BestInTheWorld22 said:


> Agree, Sammy's reign was a flop


When you're not given a solo story, but instead put in a weirdo Jim Cornette MMA expy feud that type of shit will happen


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

RapShepard said:


> Y'all really be reaching lol. "He turned heel, by being the exact same person and being presented the exact same". I'll be sure to save that next time the why Cena never turned question turns up.


I would assume the difference between the Cody and Cena situation is execution.

WWE were stubborn with Cena. Just like they were with Reigns for years, because they wanted them pushed and seen as top baby faces.

AEW and Cody in particular are being intentional.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Erik. said:


> I would assume the difference between the Cody and Cena situation is execution.
> 
> WWE were stubborn with Cena. Just like they were with Reigns for years, because they wanted them pushed and seen as top baby faces.
> 
> AEW and Cody in particular are being intentional.


Intentional in what way? In what way is he being presented differently?

Cena and Reigns themselves and their opponents were never shy about pointing out the boos they got. Cena and Reigns were never shy about leaning into the boos for a match or teasing going heel. Remember the Cena heel turn joke or Reigns declaring he "wasn't a good guy, or a bad guy, he's just the guy".



But the reality is Cena never went heel and when Reigns went heel they made it clear by presenting him as the bad guy in the story even if he believes he's justified. Reigns last year was a heel turn, everything prior was mild acknowledgements that he had some that don't like him, but he's still a guy to cheer. 

Cody like Cena may play into the boos as of late in a match or acknowledge the boos, but all of his stories still present him as a great guy that people should probably get behind.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

RapShepard said:


> Cody like Cena may play into the boos as of late in a match or acknowledge the boos, but all of his stories still present him as a great guy that people should probably get behind.


They have yet to tell a story for why Black or Lance Archer or Andrade or Jade Cargill/Shaq or any of these new faces come to AEW wanting to beat Cody. Just that they want Cody, yet every time you see these guys outside of Kayfabe, it is Kenny they have dreams of wrestling.

But Cody doesn’t abuse his power…


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

bdon said:


> They have yet to tell a story for why Black or Lance Archer or Andrade or Jade Cargill/Shaq or any of these new faces come to AEW wanting to beat Cody. Just that they want Cody, yet every time you see these guys outside of Kayfabe, it is Kenny they have dreams of wrestling.
> 
> But Cody doesn’t abuse his power…


Kenny aside, nobody ever has a legit reason for hating Cody and it's consistently made clear in the story and from commentary. It's just a never ending string of jealous people going after him. Hell in the end even Sammy essentially ended up looking like he was in over his head for thinking he had surpassed Cody. Cody took everything Sammy could dish out clean, then beat the shit out of him.


----------



## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

Erik. said:


> If he flat out turned heel by criticising fans on the mic or destroying a baby face, he'd probably get an applause for giving fans what they have wanted to see.


Here’s the thing. Yes, it got Roman more over turning heel, and I think Cena would have been far more over if he’d turned heel. But, the reason the crowds were still receptive to them turning is that they each were top talents in WWE.

Cody is not a top talent in AEW. There’s 10 other established guys more over than him, and there’s at least 5 others with more interesting upsides as to where their stories could go.

I think AEW fans are going to shit all over Cody being in any prominent position on the show (especially holding the #2 title), because he’s no where close to being a top talent in AEW. Cody is like the 15th best guy they have. So heel or face, it doesn’t matter. 

The same reason the Nightmare Factory should have never gotten TV time is the same as Cody. It’s a dull played out act. Cody will never be seen by most AEW fans as anything other than a WWE mediocrity, who is the least talented guy in his own family. The dude went thru a flaming table and still can’t get a babyface reaction. He’s completely washed.

Honestly his wife and stupid neck tattoo make him irredeemable. The only way he ever gets cheered again is lazer off the tattoo and dump Brandi. Maybe just then the go away heat will subside


----------



## TeamFlareZakk (Jul 15, 2020)

Fuck Cody Rhodes


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

your 15th time TNT champion woooooooooo


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

What would Cody do if all of the top acts wanted the TNT title and World title, the way Sting used to be ok with going after the US title..?

He’d be back to fucking off with QT and the Nightmare Factory as he refuses to eat the pin for guys more talented than him.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

The fact that Cody is the only one that somehow apparently is the most amazing talent above all to even hold the belt 3 times now and people still defend it makes sense. We have had more nonsense in this world defended in the past 2 years than ever before in our history of time.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

bdon said:


> What would Cody do if all of the top acts wanted the TNT title and World title, the way Sting used to be ok with going after the US title..?
> 
> He’d be back to fucking off with QT and the Nightmare Factory as he refuses to eat the pin for guys more talented than him.



Imagine having the coolest nickname and being zero of what the definition means aka "the American nightmare" I guess in a way he is a nightmare in the total opposite of sense.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Updated BOTB poster featuring your NEW and first ever THREE TIME TNT Champion, Cody Rhodes. 😏


----------



## Gwi1890 (Nov 7, 2019)

Erik. said:


>


🤣 I can’t wait to see this play out, I’ve been such mark honestly can’t believe it


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Gwi1890 said:


> 🤣 I can’t wait to see this play out, I’ve been such mark honestly can’t believe it



It will come and it will be legit hate on him. Because Cody heel is really just a reflection of how he is in real life. So its easy to hate on him.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

3venflow said:


> Updated BOTB poster featuring your NEW and first ever THREE TIME TNT Champion, Cody Rhodes. [emoji57]
> 
> View attachment 113839


The question is what's the market for NFTs featuring the Sammy Guevara edition of the poster


----------



## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> Bravo! Fucking bravo!
> 
> Commit to something. Don’t act the part and pander to the audience then once the match is over go back to the “gosh, golly-gee” babyface pandering shit. That is not “working”. That is playing both sides of the fence to be as relevant as possible and doing anything in your power to get a reaction for yourself whilst not taking into consideration those on the roster around you that have to commit to a role in order to make the entire theatrics of this theater work.
> 
> Playing both sides of the coin does not do Hangman any favors.


Exactly. The funniest/most frustrating part is that all it would take for people like me to enjoy his on screen character is for him to just fucking commit to something. Pick a lane and try to excel at it. He is wasting his time trying to be a jack of all trades and master of none. He may fail in that role he chooses, but at least it is a defined direction. Something for the fans to grip on to. If it is bad, then ok, adjust the story and commit in another direction. Just as long as the commitment is there. He could go back to being Stardust and I would at least be happy to see him commiting to an undercard comedy role. If he is going to be HHH, then commit to being HHH. Be a full blown egotistical heel with a inferiority complex who wife acts like a combination of Ivanka Trump and an Instagram model.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

Lurker V2.0 said:


> AEW has done a good job with some story arcs. The most annoying part though is hardcore fans using longterm story telling and subtleties as a crutch to retcon anything that isn’t working.
> 
> EDIT: Also I’ve never watched or heard of Homelander and I have no plans to look it up or watch it in order to “get” Cody’s character. Any traits related to a wrestler must be presented by the promotion themselves.


You should watch the show. It's really good. Homelander is awesome. The show is called The Boys.


----------



## chronoxiong (Apr 1, 2005)

17 page thread on Cody Rhodes winning the TNT Title for the 3rd time lol. Lord have mercy


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

So with Cody lets say it all is just a big gigantic work and long term storytelling and booking genius Tony Khan etc.

How do we explain fans openly tuning out? I won't watch anything Cody related anymore, I'm not interested in him getting his ass kicked or embarrassed by a better wrestler if I see Cody I skip it.

Seems like others have been saying the same here so if he turns heel he simply becomes a heel that is so hated that people tune out when he's on TV. That isn't a good thing either.


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Chip Chipperson said:


> So with Cody lets say it all is just a big gigantic work and long term storytelling and booking genius Tony Khan etc.
> 
> How do we explain fans openly tuning out? I won't watch anything Cody related anymore, I'm not interested in him getting his ass kicked or embarrassed by a better wrestler if I see Cody I skip it.
> 
> Seems like others have been saying the same here so if he turns heel he simply becomes a heel that is so hated that people tune out when he's on TV. That isn't a good thing either.


agreed. it's having the opposite effect so far.

if this subconscious heel turn is really real, we need to see him really heel it up. things like "accidentally" cheat to win; maybe say some offensive and heel things.

go one step further by having a face call him out - let them have a feud. make the boundaries clear for the fans. we want to _see_ him get beat up - every fan should. cody can still deny being a bad guy at this point.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Geert Wilders said:


> agreed. it's having the opposite effect so far.
> 
> if this subconscious heel turn is really real, we need to see him really heel it up. things like "accidentally" cheat to win; maybe say some offensive and heel things.
> 
> go one step further by having a face call him out - let them have a feud.


Had he not just interrupted baby face Sammy Guevara a few weeks and then demolished him and took his belt?


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Prized Fighter said:


> Exactly. The funniest/most frustrating part is that all it would take for people like me to enjoy his on screen character is for him to just fucking commit to something. Pick a lane and try to excel at it. He is wasting his time trying to be a jack of all trades and master of none. He may fail in that role he chooses, but at least it is a defined direction. Something for the fans to grip on to. If it is bad, then ok, adjust the story and commit in another direction. Just as long as the commitment is there. He could go back to being Stardust and I would at least be happy to see him commiting to an undercard comedy role. If he is going to be HHH, then commit to being HHH. Be a full blown egotistical heel with a inferiority complex who wife acts like a combination of Ivanka Trump and an Instagram model.



his lane of choice is im superior at everything so im going to book myself as the jack of all trades.


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Erik. said:


> Had he not just interrupted baby face Sammy Guevara a few weeks and then demolished him and take his belt?


that's very true. actually i forget how he called him "son" or something along the lines. this is a great point. more of this, i guess.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Geert Wilders said:


> that's very true. actually i forget how he called him "son" or something along the lines. this is a great point. more of this, i guess.


The exact same promo he teased going through the heel tunnel too because he knows the audience is smart.


----------



## mazzah20 (Oct 10, 2019)

Just realised Cody might re-start the open challenge and use it as a way to debut Bray Wyatt.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Now you just watch, I bet we will see Cody as a champion somehow magically be booked super well unlike all the other champions. We will see endless TNT cody champion promos week in and week out again. Him crying his as off again how hard he has to work bla bla bla telling us hes not talented bla bla. He will be booked in endless defending matches with plenty of storylines and plenty of gimmick matches. Well everyone else gets shit runs with no focus or story or anything.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Cody as champ again is a great move honestly...

only problem i have is the loser cheerleader squad he has to have. Arns kid, red velvet, shotty lee whatever, get those bums away from the goat


----------



## DUSTY 74 (Aug 11, 2021)




----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

RapShepard said:


> Intentional in what way? In what way is he being presented differently?
> 
> Cena and Reigns themselves and their opponents were never shy about pointing out the boos they got. Cena and Reigns were never shy about leaning into the boos for a match or teasing going heel. Remember the Cena heel turn joke or Reigns declaring he "wasn't a good guy, or a bad guy, he's just the guy".
> 
> ...


The way I look at it is that Intentional in that Cena and Reigns were SUPPOSED to be faces. They got booed by a lot of people but WWE simply didn't care what they thought and powered through regardless with them being traditional faces. 

Cody is intentionally trying to get this reaction. Theyre playing into their audience mainly consisting of "smart fans" Him and Tony know their fans will respond this way to what he's doing.

There's times he's been very obvious with what he's doing such as teasing going through a different tunnel. Or where he wasn't there to get the hot tag from Pac during their tag match then baby faced it up.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Erik. said:


> The way I look at it is that Intentional in that Cena and Reigns were SUPPOSED to be faces. They got booed by a lot of people but WWE simply didn't care what they thought and powered through regardless with them being traditional faces.
> 
> Cody is intentionally trying to get this reaction. Theyre playing into their audience mainly consisting of "smart fans" Him and Tony know their fans will respond this way to what he's doing.
> 
> There's times he's been very obvious with what he's doing such as teasing going through a different tunnel. Or where he wasn't there to get the hot tag from Pac during their tag match then baby faced it up.


But him doing the teases don't amount to much when all the stories still paint him as the good guy in the feud. Like I mentioned Cena and Reigns both would lean into it at times because they knew how hardcore fans would react. But their feuds still painted them as good guys. Cody giving a wink and a nod doesn't mean much if they still paint Black and Andrade as the true asshole in their feuds. Until he's actually being presented as the villain in a story, he's indeed a Babyface with audible backlash just like Reigns and Cena were.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

chronoxiong said:


> 17 page thread on Cody Rhodes winning the TNT Title for the 3rd time lol. Lord have mercy


And they say it isn't working. It's a work and it's working.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Erik. said:


> The way I look at it is that Intentional in that Cena and Reigns were SUPPOSED to be faces. They got booed by a lot of people but WWE simply didn't care what they thought and powered through regardless with them being traditional faces.
> 
> Cody is intentionally trying to get this reaction. Theyre playing into their audience mainly consisting of "smart fans" Him and Tony know their fans will respond this way to what he's doing.
> 
> There's times he's been very obvious with what he's doing such as teasing going through a different tunnel. Or where he wasn't there to get the hot tag from Pac during their tag match then baby faced it up.



Oh course, it would make zero sense to not just except it. But reality is this is the real Cody and he actually likes playing a heel so it makes sense. Doesn't make it right

And you know if aew had good booking and everyone got the same treatment Cody got than no one would even care.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

RapShepard said:


> But him doing the teases don't amount to much when all the stories still paint him as the good guy in the feud. Like I mentioned Cena and Reigns both would lean into it at times because they knew how hardcore fans would react. But their feuds still painted them as good guys. Cody giving a wink and a nod doesn't mean much if they still paint Black and Andrade as the true asshole in their feuds. Until he's actually being presented as the villain in a story, he's indeed a Babyface with audible backlash just like Reigns and Cena were.


Stop making sense. They won’t listen.

Just giving a wink and a nod to what you’re thinking is not a goddamn heel turn. I wrote out a fucking big ass post explaining why people who cheer damn near everything refuse to get behind the story. @Prized Fighter reiterated that.

Neither of us have received a response.


----------



## DUSTY 74 (Aug 11, 2021)




----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

After Rampage, Tony Khan called Hook out to bitch slap Cody. Given that their fan reactions are on the opposite ends of the spectrum right now, doesn't that suggest something?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Chip Chipperson said:


> So with Cody lets say it all is just a big gigantic work and long term storytelling and booking genius Tony Khan etc.
> 
> How do we explain fans openly tuning out? I won't watch anything Cody related anymore, I'm not interested in him getting his ass kicked or embarrassed by a better wrestler if I see Cody I skip it.
> 
> Seems like others have been saying the same here so if he turns heel he simply becomes a heel that is so hated that people tune out when he's on TV. That isn't a good thing either.


which is so strange, as he is the most old school on the whole roster - i would think you love Cody


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

3venflow said:


> After Rampage, Tony Khan called Hook out to bitch slap Cody. Given that their fan reactions are on the opposite ends of the spectrum right now, doesn't that suggest something?


What does it suggest?

A heel came out and committed a heel action thus suggesting that Cody is again the face in this situation.

If Cody now starts heeling it up it leaves the actual heel with nothing to work with.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

bdon said:


> Stop making sense. They won’t listen.
> 
> Just giving a wink and a nod to what you’re thinking is not a goddamn heel turn. I wrote out a fucking big ass post explaining why people who cheer damn near everything refuse to get behind the story. @Prized Fighter reiterated that.
> 
> Neither of us have received a response.



thats whats funny is hes not acting like a heel, just acting like a selfish entitled bitch that is taking advantage of the system to force himself onto people. I will never forget what eric said a few months ago about how he cant stand wrestlers that have to raise their hands above their head to try to force the crowd to cheer for you. cody does this more than anyone. Just look at his history and how much he forces people to try to get behind him. Look at Hook as an example that is a true face that is truly liked and has to do absolutely nothing to get people behind him. The guy dont even have to speak, he can just walk out and his presence just draws you in to get behind him. How many cody crying promos have we heard now where he has to convince us to like him. Also crying over and over again does not make story telling good. Its something that should have been built up over a long time and come out based off proper story and emotion. His is just him being a pussy. Also you look at his real life life style and how much of a bitch he is, its nothing close to a real heel. Hes just hated and i think that will be the main reason why his heel turn could work because it wont be hated off his wrestling character but just hated because of his real life persona.

sorry went on a rant


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Hitrman1987 said:


> What does it suggest?
> 
> A heel came out and committed a heel action thus suggesting that Cody is again the face in this situation.
> 
> If Cody now starts heeling it up it leaves the actual heel with nothing to work with.


Hook is a special case though, isn't he? He's a heel by default because Team Taz are heels, but no one could've expected what a phenomenon he would be with 'We want Hook!' chants. Watch Hook vs. Bronson, Hook works like the babyface and Bronson like the heel.

While Cody is in this grey zone where he's doing heel stuff during matches but acting the babyface on the surface.

If it was all about the traditional face/heel dynamic and sending the fans home happy, why not send a standard heel out there to slap Cody then get beaten down by the Rhodes clan? It seemed very deliberate. There was also Sammy flipping off Cody recently after Cody tried to be nice to him, and Sammy is a white meat babyface right now.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

DUSTY 74 said:


> View attachment 113916



he didnt train hook


----------



## DUSTY 74 (Aug 11, 2021)

shandcraig said:


> he didnt train hook


He actually did have a hand in his training among the usual suspects in collaboration these days that would be associated in and around the circles everyone runs in but No he wasn’t specifically responsible for his training .. but it makes for good humor 😉


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

DUSTY 74 said:


> He actually did have a hand in his training among the usual suspects in collaboration these days that would be associated in and around the circles everyone runs in but No he wasn’t specifically responsible for his training .. but it makes for good humor 😉



im sure hook had some time later on at the factory as its likely access for many wrestlers but he had a lot of proper school training long before that. Plus his entire ora is clearly heavily influenced from taz showing him the ways. I would not start trying to give credit to people where it is not due. He cured racism anyways, that is big enough


----------



## DUSTY 74 (Aug 11, 2021)

shandcraig said:


> im sure hook had some time later on at the factory as its likely access for many wrestlers but he had a lot of proper school training long before that. Plus his entire ora is clearly heavily influenced from taz showing him the ways. I would not start trying to give credit to people where it is not due. He cured racism anyways, that is big enough


100% Agreed … Brian Meyers has also mentioned on major network content Hooks training so its out there as create a pro had some involvement as well …. But its obvious he has a healthy amount of Taz in his repertoire & psychology

and for the record i only screen capped this not like i created it lol but it is funny 😄


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Cody won't act heelish, because to the character, he still IS the "good guy". There is no black and white in reality, there is no good or bad, it's people and how much pressure it takes for them to compromise their morality.

Ever since Malakai feud, Black feud exposed him to the audience. Cody is under pressure now, and he will turn heel eventually when his character can't take it anymore. He can't take the boos, he's rattled, he is going out of his way to try to please the people. Burning himself, regaining the TNT title, the character has no idea how to get the love back. He even asked the fans to not boo him outright, he's downright pathetic.

He's not a heel right now. But he will be a heel when he just can't take it anymore. This is a character who is deluded into believing he is a white knight and can do no wrong. He is addicted to the cheers of the fans. He is an addict who was enabled by the fans that gave him huge pops for the same material a year ago. His ego was inflated by these people. Along with his family, his students and everyone else that he surrounds himself with reassures him that he's a "great guy". 

He is trying way too hard to retain the support of the fans and it's only natural that such desperation is met with further rejection. He's acting like a desperate ex that no one likes. 

This rejection by the fans will result in him becoming the biggest asshole in AEW, probably bigger than MJF too. 

It was way too subtle before and I was even starting to question if it's a work or if he really is clueless. But the spots with the golden shovel, the pedigree tease, him moving towards heel tunnel forgetfully and retreating towards the babyface tunnel confirmed that this IS him working the smarks. 

It's the same as everyone mocking "Yeah right Hangman will win the world title" to now "yeah right he will turn heel". Wrestling industry changed a long time ago. The audience has changed. The magic is dead. This is AEW trying their best to work with the new normals to work the smarks. It worked with Hangman/Omega and clearly this is working too.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

DUSTY 74 said:


> 100% Agreed … Brian Meyers has also mentioned on major network content Hooks training so its out there as create a pro had some involvement as well …. But its obvious he has a healthy amount of Taz in his repertoire & psychology


this rumour is going to have cody on dynamite next week claiming credit to hooks fame.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Heelish cody is best


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475851068399656964


----------



## DUSTY 74 (Aug 11, 2021)

shandcraig said:


> this rumour is going to have cody on dynamite next week claiming credit to hooks fame.


Well technically they already cracked the door to that in his promo w taz awhile back so no new ground there

and claims based on rumors is as wrestling as it gets


----------



## DUSTY 74 (Aug 11, 2021)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Heelish cody is best
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475851068399656964


That’s Homelander right there


----------



## SuperstarSlyme (Oct 25, 2021)

My thing is why even go with the Cena dynamic if thats what turned off alot of fans from the E when Cena did it and when Roman did it just doesnt make sense for a company thats listens to their audience


----------



## Kenny's Ghost (Nov 23, 2020)

SuperstarSlyme said:


> My thing is why even go with the Cena dynamic if thats what turned off alot of fans from the E when Cena did it and when Roman did it just doesnt make sense for a company thats listens to their audience


That's a myth. Cena was FOTC in 2008 when WWE was making a hell of a lot more money than the early 2000s.


----------



## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

He's not face or heel. Fans dont hate him because of heat. Its because they see hes the Jeff Jarret of AEW. Except that jarret loved wrestling and was there.

Cody will lose a meaningless match, then be gone for months, only to show up for a few weeks to bury the guy who beat him.


----------



## SuperstarSlyme (Oct 25, 2021)

GNKenny said:


> That's a myth. Cena was FOTC in 2008 when WWE was making a hell of a lot more money than the early 2000s.


where are those fans now ?


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

SuperstarSlyme said:


> where are those fans now ?


Grew up?


----------



## SuperstarSlyme (Oct 25, 2021)

Erik. said:


> Grew up?


hogan fans grew up and still stuck with the product thru the AE


----------



## Kenny's Ghost (Nov 23, 2020)

SuperstarSlyme said:


> where are those fans now ?


Where were the Attitude era fans in 2004 when some shows were drawing dying WCW numbers? If you're just going by TV ratings that's a whole different can of worms. Cena was a huge net positive for WWE in every way.



SuperstarSlyme said:


> hogan fans grew up and still stuck with the product thru the AE


No they didn't. WWE did RAW in high school gyms in the early 90s.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

SuperstarSlyme said:


> hogan fans grew up and still stuck with the product thru the AE


Not instantly they didn't. Hence why WWF struggled for years.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Hitman1987 said:


> What does it suggest?
> 
> A heel came out and committed a heel action thus suggesting that Cody is again the face in this situation.
> 
> If Cody now starts heeling it up it leaves the actual heel with nothing to work with.


Cody has been burying his opponents’ shit for a while.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

bdon said:


> Cody has been burying his opponents’ shit for a while.



you have people that some how think everyone that faces cody somehow benefits them. Everyone that is good that has faced cody dont need to face cody to somehow be put over, they are already over and liked and no one has benefited from facing him in a positive way. Cody is not some legend in the business. In fact i think this idea of wrestlers putting over wrestlers is not a thing anymore but people still think it is. like no one somehow benefits feuding with cm punk. people like mjf are already brilliant and can out do everone including cm punk and will continue to be good and somehow does not become good because he has a story with him.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475892964635389961


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475892964635389961


He's going to get _another_ neck tattoo. 

_







_


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Savage Cody is hilarious


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475905133020123136


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Just thought of something. Lets play a game, We all keep bringing up shitty lack of story and development with several people. Especially several tnt runs for guys'. Lets see how codys run for the 3rd time goes. I predict it will be full of story and focus on the shows when others got nothing. If that is not enough evidence for you than you're just straight up happy to deny facts.Storyline or not its bad for business to shit on all your talent that deserve good so you can do business for 1 person


----------



## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475892964635389961


"Whether you boo me or cheer me, I hope you are entertained." - John Cena (Not the exact quote)



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Savage Cody is hilarious
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475905133020123136


This is actually more what I want to see from Cody. You can tell here that he is commiting to being an asshole heel. Just be this guy and turn it up to 11.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

shandcraig said:


> Just thought of something. Lets play a game, We all keep bringing up shitty lack of story and development with several people. Especially several tnt runs for guys'. Lets see how codys run for the 3rd time goes. I predict it will be full of story and focus on the shows when others got nothing. If that is not enough evidence for you than you're just straight up happy to deny facts.*Storyline or not its bad for business to shit on all your talent that deserve good so you can do business for 1 person*


It would be ok if that one person drew money, but when Cody was averaging 20 minutes per episode, the show was struggling to reach 700k viewers. 

Low and behold: we have ramped up Cody stories in the last month or two and back to struggling.


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

shandcraig said:


> Just thought of something. Lets play a game, We all keep bringing up shitty lack of story and development with several people. Especially several tnt runs for guys'. Lets see how codys run for the 3rd time goes. I predict it will be full of story and focus on the shows when others got nothing. If that is not enough evidence for you than you're just straight up happy to deny facts.Storyline or not its bad for business to shit on all your talent that deserve good so you can do business for 1 person


He’s already going straight into a feud with the most talked about guy on the roster in Hook.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Prized Fighter said:


> This is actually more what I want to see from Cody. You can tell here that he is commiting to being an asshole heel. Just be this guy and turn it up to 11.


This is actually a character vs playing both sides of the fence in order to stay as relevant as possible while burying the gimmick of those working opposite you by not letting them work strictly their role.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Hitman1987 said:


> He’s already going straight into a feud with the most talked about guy on the roster in Hook.


He’s learned a lot from Jericho, and if this ends with Hook winning the TNT title, everyone will claim Cody put him over as if this place hasn’t been going GaGa for Hook for weeks before ever associating with Cody.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Hitman1987 said:


> He’s already going straight into a feud with the most talked about guy on the roster in Hook.


Well, that's not entirely true now is it.


----------



## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

shandcraig said:


> Just thought of something. Lets play a game, We all keep bringing up shitty lack of story and development with several people. Especially several tnt runs for guys'. Lets see how codys run for the 3rd time goes. I predict it will be full of story and focus on the shows when others got nothing. If that is not enough evidence for you than you're just straight up happy to deny facts.Storyline or not its bad for business to shit on all your talent that deserve good so you can do business for 1 person


Cody will get an elaborate storyline for sure. However, that should be the norm for any champion. I think it is more fair to wait and see what the person who beats him for the title gets. If that person, also gets strong stories just like Cody, then it could change the Cody narrative a bit. At least then we can say he put someone over and that person thrived past the Cody feud.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Hitman1987 said:


> He’s already going straight into a feud with the most talked about guy on the roster in Hook.


They agreed to wrestle next time they're in Greensboro which is a long way off. Beyond that, the segment just seemed to be a 'send the fans home happy' finale after the cameras went off.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Prized Fighter said:


> Cody will get an elaborate storyline for sure. *However, that should be the norm for any champion.* I think it is more fair to wait and see what the person who beats him for the title gets. If that person, also gets strong stories just like Cody, then it could change the Cody narrative a bit. At least then we can say he put someone over and that person thrived past the Cody feud.


Every champion SHOULD get that, yet only Jericho and Cody have got the big, all encompassing story that puts them front and center of every episode.

As for the underlined, we have seen Cody lose the title twice, and neither opponent got a big storyline out of it. Darby got a Team Taz feud…that he had to share with Cody.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> Every champion SHOULD get that, yet only Jericho and Cody have got the big, all encompassing story that puts them front and center of every episode.
> 
> As for the underlined, we have seen Cody lose the title twice, and neither opponent got a big storyline out of it. Darby got a Team Taz feud…that he had to share with Cody.


Cody was nowhere for the team Taz feud except like one segment

whatchu talking about? Was he skulking in the shadows during the cinematic match? Or was he hiding in the coffin during the Darby / Ethan coffin match?

maybe under the ring during the year long Kenny / Hangman story

fix your pants, your bias is showing


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

bdon said:


> Every champion SHOULD get that, yet only Jericho and Cody have got the big, all encompassing story that puts them front and center of every episode.
> 
> As for the underlined, we have seen Cody lose the title twice, and neither opponent got a big storyline out of it. Darby got a Team Taz feud…that he had to share with Cody.



dont bother responding, he does not get it.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Cody was nowhere for the team Taz feud except like one segment
> 
> whatchu talking about? Was he skulking in the shadows during the cinematic match? Or was he hiding in the coffin during the Darby / Ethan coffin match?
> 
> ...


Go back and watch. Darby Allin was getting beat on by Ricky Starks, and Hobbs and Brian Cage were focused entirely on Cody, despite the fact that Cage was supposed to be chasing Darby’s TNT title. 

When Hobbs turned heel, who was the one who got the first attack from him signaling his betrayal? Cody.

It was Cody getting thrown through the lighting/production by Brian Cage once.

Do your fucking homework before you speak.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> Go back and watch. Darby Allin was getting beat on by Ricky Starks, and Hobbs and Brian Cage were focused entirely on Cody, despite the fact that Cage was supposed to be chasing Darby’s TNT title.
> 
> When Hobbs turned heel, who was the one who got the first attack from him signaling his betrayal? Cody.
> 
> ...


and what did Cody do during their big cinematic blow-off match?

Darby‘s year of story > Cody’s year

edit> he was in a 6-man ladder match being beaten by Sky if you’re wondering


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> and what did Cody do during their big cinematic blow-off match?
> 
> Darby‘s year of story > Cody’s year
> 
> edit> he was in a 6-man ladder match being beaten by Sky if you’re wondering


Darby didn’t get any kind of story as TNT champion. His year has been made by him being great and having Sting second him and tagging with him. Nothing to do with goddamn Cody.

But I notice you aren’t addressing the fact that Cody WAS heavily involved in the Team Taz storyline.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> Darby didn’t get any kind of story as TNT champion. His year has been made by him being great and having Sting second him and tagging with him. Nothing to do with goddamn Cody.
> 
> But I notice you aren’t addressing the fact that Cody WAS heavily involved in the Team Taz storyline.


well, i can’t remember Cody’s involvement

i’m not gonna comment on something until i go check - it couldn’t have been massive since i cannot recollect it

Darby got a short tnt title story with Matt Hardy and Miro - but he was only champ until May / the rest of his year was very story heavy

(and the ethan page stuff was always in the background / team taz stuff too - in fact, 1 defence was agains cage, so there was a long story)


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

400 posts lol, you guys realize this is why it was a good move right? Who gave a fuck about Sammy Guevara? I'll dap Khan up when he makes a good move. This was a good move.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Ok @bdon - i went back and watch - you seem to be omitting some critical things here

1. Hobbs was supposed to turn on Mox, as they were gonna team. But he had travel issues or something, right? Something went wrong and they never had the Mox team / team Taz match. Mox even said they had amazing stuff for Hobbs planned






2. So you put Cody in there, have him beef with Taz to intro Hook (ding! Ding! Ding! Long fucking term)






3. And then you do the Hobbs turn / which is fine with Cody as he was beefing






none if this was weird, you still had all the parties involved and Sting was involved with Cody and Darby at this point from his debut + it made sense for Cody to be there / as Darby just beat him for the tnt title - they were doing this whole ‘rookie surpassed the veteran’ thing and Sting ‘choosing’ Darby over Cody

this is good shit actually

edit> after this Sting / Darby continued feuding with Team taz and Cody want into 2 undercard feuds / wingmen and QT (with Shaq thrown in the middle)


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

20 pages lol. Cody is the most intriguing guy in wrestling right now. I'm loving the way he's working the smarks. He's still an asshole for beating Malakai Black though.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

bdon said:


> He’s learned a lot from Jericho, and if this ends with Hook winning the TNT title, everyone will claim Cody put him over as if this place hasn’t been going GaGa for Hook for weeks before ever associating with Cody.



people continue to go on and on about people putting people over. Its simply not true and in history has rarely been true. No one somehow benefits from feuding with cody and magically is put over and better. These dudes that are good are just good and are good before and after facing cody or anyone else. It comes down to people once again thinking wins and loses matter when they dont. Most certainty does not matter to cody. Hook is instantly over as fuck and weather he feuds with cody or sting or marko stunt it wont fucking matter.


----------



## DUSTY 74 (Aug 11, 2021)

bdon said:


> He’s learned a lot from Jericho, and if this ends with Hook winning the TNT title, everyone will claim Cody put him over as if this place hasn’t been going GaGa for Hook for weeks before ever associating with Cody.



Jericho ? Look no further than ….. The American Dream ….. no matter if he has , hasn’t , can ,can’t or ever will or won‘t live up to the shadow he was born in that trait runs through his veins from the moment he was conceived he just didn’t earn or have handed to him the opportunity to impose his will and until he met his money mark

definitely a chip off the old block but only a chip and not quite The Actual Star

Crockett‘s Brother being there to present the Belt to him the other night just another reminder of those times


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

bdon said:


> He’s learned a lot from Jericho, and if this ends with Hook winning the TNT title, everyone will claim Cody put him over as if this place hasn’t been going GaGa for Hook for weeks before ever associating with Cody.


At some point folk have to acknowledge that Hook is a meme they're too far in on


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> At some point folk have to acknowledge that Hook is a meme they're too far in on


dude, his matches are crisppp

(i cared nothing for the meme)


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude, his matches are crisppp
> 
> (i cared nothing for the meme)


No doubt for 2 matches, he's looked well. That doesn't erase the hyperbole because he's a meme that showed he wasn't shit.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> No doubt for 2 matches, he's looked well. That doesn't erase the hyperbole because he's a meme that showed he wasn't shit.


well, meme-ing is fun

double so if the meme ends up legit - no reason for them to let up now, the guy has ‘it’

if he was shit, it would be a different story / but i don’t think you’ll see it let up any time soon

and AEW will ride the wave for sure


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, meme-ing is fun
> 
> double so if the meme ends up legit - no reason for them to let up now, the guy has ‘it’
> 
> ...


Oh definitely ride the wave, but Hook getting the TNT title off Cody sounds wild as fuck right now. He's good for his level, but he ain't that good lol.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> Oh definitely ride the wave, but Hook getting the TNT title off Cody sounds wild as fuck right now. He's good for his level, but he ain't that good lol.


Lol, i doubt he takes it off him - seemed to be only for the fans

unless he does and they give him an epic long reign - that’ll be fun 

memes!


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lol, i doubt he takes it off him - seemed to be only for the fans
> 
> unless he does and they give him an epic long reign - that’ll be fun
> 
> memes!


You little scamp, stop being a troublemaker [emoji23]


----------



## BlueEyedDevil (Dec 26, 2019)

Master Thespian is playing the role of a heel who thinks he is a babyface. I'm not sure where they take this in the future though. It is called... ACTING!


----------



## DUSTY 74 (Aug 11, 2021)




----------



## Whoanma (Apr 5, 2016)




----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

So whats the predictions on the first mega aew Cody tnt feud?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

shandcraig said:


> So whats the predictions on the first mega aew Cody tnt feud?


ethan page or sky - they said they were next


----------



## yeahbaby! (Jan 27, 2014)

Meh, I didn't like it either but isn't this and the lack of heel turn just to do with his TV show and whatever else media commitments.

It's Cena was. He really couldn't turn due to all the stuff like Make-a-wish and whatever else millions media commitment he had to do promoting the wholesome practice of fake fighting.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost (Nov 23, 2020)

RapShepard said:


> At some point folk have to acknowledge that Hook is a meme they're too far in on


Reminds me of the Mizdow thing honestly.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475506176368386049


----------



## Bubbly3 (Dec 9, 2021)

Wonder if we're going to see him tease a pedigree for a while before actually using it when he makes it more obvious that he's turning heel.


----------



## DUSTY 74 (Aug 11, 2021)




----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

I dont care if this is a big ass cody ego heel or face work. What scares me is people are defending this because they are fixed on the fact its some master plan. Not thinking about how much this is negatively impacting most of the roster and aew in general.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

yeahbaby! said:


> Meh, I didn't like it either but isn't this and the lack of heel turn just to do with his TV show and whatever else media commitments.
> 
> It's Cena was. He really couldn't turn due to all the stuff like Make-a-wish and whatever else millions media commitment he had to do promoting the wholesome practice of fake fighting.


I'd like to think people can separate a character on a TV show and a person in different entertainment platforms. 

Hogan was the hottest heel in the industry and still got movie deals and invited on talk shows. As well as done all the charities.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Erik. said:


> I'd like to think people can separate a character on a TV show and a person in different entertainment platforms.
> 
> Hogan was the hottest heel in the industry and still got movie deals and invited on talk shows. As well as done all the charities.


It's nothing more than a easy excuse for people to come up with. You think Warner gives a fuck if Cody is a bad guy and also on some shitty talk show, absolutely not


----------



## ripcitydisciple (Dec 18, 2014)

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475506176368386049


Thank you for posting this. Their has been a few of us that have made posts detailing Cody being Homelander but I guess just words are not enough sometimes.

A question that came to mind watching that video, do you think Cody has been a bad guy the entire time in AEW? Yet the fans were too blind too see it in the beginning. A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

ripcitydisciple said:


> Thank you for posting this. Their has been a few of us that have made posts detailing Cody being Homelander but I guess just words are not enough sometimes.
> 
> A question that came to mind watching that video, do you think Cody has been a bad guy the entire time in AEW? Yet the fans were too blind too see it in the beginning. A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing.



why does it matter,thats not even the issue. I dont think people care if hes a face or a heel at this point.


----------



## SuperstarSlyme (Oct 25, 2021)

Erik. said:


> Not instantly they didn't. Hence why WWF struggled for years.


abosuletly but they came back key difference


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Bubbly3 said:


> Wonder if we're going to see him tease a pedigree for a while before actually using it when he makes it more obvious that he's turning heel.


Oh, he’s going to use it eventually, and that is when he will officially turn heel. 

It’s bullshit that he is using the Tiger Driver as a finisher, though. It buries the move when every time Omega does it, the opponent kicks out. Should Omega begin using a Cody Cutter and forcing his opponent to eat the pin on that, too?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ok @bdon - i went back and watch - you seem to be omitting some critical things here
> 
> 1. Hobbs was supposed to turn on Mox, as they were gonna team. But he had travel issues or something, right? Something went wrong and they never had the Mox team / team Taz match. Mox even said they had amazing stuff for Hobbs planned
> 
> ...


1. Mox was supposed to be in a program to setup a match with Lance Archer that fell through due to Archer’s COVID testing. Mox went into the program with Eddie and eventually Kenny. But the Hobbs/Darby/Mox stuff was Mox‘s baby as he put over Hobbs massively on the mic. Hobbs was instantly a made man.

For whatever reason, and we all know what that is, Cody was randomly inserted into the story to take Mox’s place.

2. I don’t think the Hook intro was all part of the plan, but this is actually good reverse storytelling you’ve pointed out. If this were Kenny, I’d be sure it was a connected piece of the puzzle.

Cody simply isn’t this good to retcon and make it all feel tied together.

3. Cody was not beefing with any of them. He simply took Mox’s place working in a hot program for a few weeks.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Long story short, @LifeInCattleClass , I do believe he has always planned to turn heel, but I don’t think this plan was turn heel this quickly. He’s reacting according to the fans and hinting to try and drag it out as long as possible.

But no, every little shitty thing has done was not a part of an elaborate story, because Cody is not an elaborate storyteller. He’s Dusty’s kid and enjoys that style.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> Long story short, @LifeInCattleClass , I do believe he has always planned to turn heel, but I don’t think this plan was turn heel this quickly. He’s reacting according to the fans and hinting to try and drag it out as long as possible.
> 
> But no, every little shitty thing has done was not a part of an elaborate story, because Cody is not an elaborate storyteller. He’s Dusty’s kid and enjoys that style.


Cody is an elaborate storyteller is the problem though

his whole ethos is grounded in 80s oldschool of smoke and mirrors - but also geek fandom of longform sagas like star wars, claremont x-men etc

out of the 4 evps, he’s the most likely one to make a good comic book writer

you’re just stingy with the props or blinded to his greatness in favour of Kenny

but Cody holds his own in the elite

edit> also lols for thinking Cody intro’ing Hook was not part of the plan. You’re talking about people who knew who their first 4 world champions were 3 years ago

edit edit> the 6-man also never happened due to lance and cage getting covid - no sense continuing if 2 of the 6 pieces were out of action / Mox moved on and when they revisited, Cody was entangled with Darby and Darby with team Taz - just made sense - so yeah, ‘we all know why’


----------



## Fearless Viper (Apr 6, 2019)

I'm not even a fan of Cody but he's working the marks! The new polarizing figure in wrestling today is here!


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)




----------



## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

People talking about Cody being Homelander will always make me chuckle. Technically, they are right. That is absolutely the character that is going for and trying to emulate. The problem is that Homelander was a more well rounded character. On The Boys, you saw Homelander pandering to crowds and your saw him act like a piece of shit behind the scenes. So there isn't any confusion as to who he is. To the general public (characters) on the show, he was presenting himself as a hero and they were getting worked, but the actual viewers of the show (us) got to see him as a true villain all the time.

Cody on the other hand, consistently is portrayed as a face. There is very little ambiguity there. In this scenario, if Cody is Homelander, then we are the general public and we are only shown one side of his character. We have gotten hints of him being the villain, but there isn't anything that is fleshed out yet. I get that he is trying to be like Homelander, I just don't think it is something that would be possible in the scope of pro wrestling. You would either have to show his heel tendencies by catching him in the back being an asshole, which then you get into the invisible camera issue or he has to do what he is doing now and have the fans fill in the gaps by themselves and hope they fill in the rights ones. It is all too much. If Cody wants to be Homelander, then just jump to the villain part and play the delusional heel who believes the fans are idiots who don't know what is best for them.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Prized Fighter said:


> People talking about Cody being Homelander will always make me chuckle. Technically, they are right. That is absolutely the character that is going for and trying to emulate. The problem is that Homelander was a more well rounded character. On The Boys, you saw Homelander pandering to crowds and your saw him act like a piece of shit behind the scenes. So there isn't any confusion as to who he is. To the general public (characters) on the show, he was presenting himself as a hero and they were getting worked, but the actual viewers of the show (us) got to see him as a true villain all the time.
> 
> Cody on the other hand, consistently is portrayed as a face. There is very little ambiguity there. In this scenario, if Cody is Homelander, then we are the general public and we are only shown one side of his character. We have gotten hints of him being the villain, but there isn't anything that is fleshed out yet. I get that he is trying to be like Homelander, I just don't think it is something that would be possible in the scope of pro wrestling. You would either have to show his heel tendencies by catching him in the back being an asshole, which then you get into the invisible camera issue or he has to do what he is doing now and have the fans fill in the gaps by themselves and hope they fill in the rights ones. It is all too much. If Cody wants to be Homelander, then just jump to the villain part and play the delusional heel who believes the fans are idiots who don't know what is best for them.


you just gotta know where to look


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475905133020123136


----------



## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you just gotta know where to look
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475905133020123136


We already discussed that clip and I agreed that this is how he should be acting. That is a real delusional dickhead heel. He is committing to the character. If this is the person that he is going to portray going forward, then I am happy with it. I just didn't need the 2 years of will he or won't he stuff.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Prized Fighter said:


> We already discussed that clip and I agreed that this is how he should be acting. That is a real delusional dickhead heel. He is committing to the character. If this is the person that he is going to portray going forward, then I am happy with it. I just didn't need the 2 years of will he or won't he stuff.


problem is they do no ‘hidden camera’ stuff in AEW / so he’ll have to let bits of it out onscreen

i think the ‘good luck kid’ to Sammy was an example of this


----------



## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> problem is they do no ‘hidden camera’ stuff in AEW / so he’ll have to let bits of it out onscreen
> 
> *i think the ‘good luck kid’ to Sammy was an example of this*


I do to. Why did it take him this long to get to this point though? He could have done it after the MJF feud, after the first match with Black, when Darby beat him for the TNT title or from the beginning of AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Prized Fighter said:


> I do to. Why did it take him this long to get to this point though? He could have done it after the MJF feud, after the first match with Black, when Darby beat him for the TNT title or from the beginning of AEW.


think Hangman was supposed to get the title first - IMo no way this doesn‘t lead to Hangman v Cody


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Prized Fighter said:


> People talking about Cody being Homelander will always make me chuckle. Technically, they are right. That is absolutely the character that is going for and trying to emulate. The problem is that Homelander was a more well rounded character. On The Boys, you saw Homelander pandering to crowds and your saw him act like a piece of shit behind the scenes. So there isn't any confusion as to who he is. To the general public (characters) on the show, he was presenting himself as a hero and they were getting worked, but the actual viewers of the show (us) got to see him as a true villain all the time.
> 
> Cody on the other hand, consistently is portrayed as a face. There is very little ambiguity there. In this scenario, if Cody is Homelander, then we are the general public and we are only shown one side of his character. We have gotten hints of him being the villain, but there isn't anything that is fleshed out yet. I get that he is trying to be like Homelander, I just don't think it is something that would be possible in the scope of pro wrestling. You would either have to show his heel tendencies by catching him in the back being an asshole, which *then you get into the invisible camera issue* or he has to do what he is doing now and have the fans fill in the gaps by themselves and hope they fill in the rights ones. It is all too much. If Cody wants to be Homelander, then just jump to the villain part and play the delusional heel who believes the fans are idiots who don't know what is best for them.


Cody is DYING to go this route. Can we all agree on that?


Prized Fighter said:


> We already discussed that clip and I agreed that this is how he should be acting. That is a real delusional dickhead heel. He is committing to the character. If this is the person that he is going to portray going forward, then I am happy with it. I just didn't need the 2 years of will he or won't he stuff.


Exactly. I have always been consistent: if the story calls for it, I can get behind it. Damn near everything Cody has done for the first 3 years of AEW’s existence has not called for it. He has to lean into this stuff for it to work. You can’t half commit to it. Shitty Starrcade payoff notwithstanding, Sting’s Crow character is the best example of long-term storytelling in wrestling history. That story does not work if Hogan doesn’t fully commit to being the over-the-top heel, and/or if Sting is out there cutting promos and what have you.

You have to commit to draw the emotional investment, and this is where Cody’s storytelling falls apart. He is terrible at creating a nuanced emotional draw. He can use daddy’s spots like MJF whipping him or the burning table, but his STORY does not due to his lack of commitment in the character.

If you’re going to be a babyface, be a babyface. If you’re going to be a heel, be a heel. If you want to be a Tweener, then you have to be a believable badass motherfucker that Cody clearly doesn’t know how to play. (Why does he think people actually huff and puff when they’re angry? That’s shit my 10 year old might do when angry, but no grown male does that when angry lol)


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

bdon said:


> Cody is DYING to go this route. Can we all agree on that?
> 
> Exactly. I have always been consistent: if the story calls for it, I can get behind it. Damn near everything Cody has done for the first 3 years of AEW’s existence has not called for it. He has to lean into this stuff for it to work. You can’t half commit to it. Shitty Starrcade payoff notwithstanding, Sting’s Crow character is the best example of long-term storytelling in wrestling history. That story does not work if Hogan doesn’t fully commit to being the over-the-top heel, and/or if Sting is out there cutting promos and what have you.
> 
> ...


and again people obsessing over what cody is doing but forget that it does not matter. Its what hes doing to everyone else. Not you but some people are i mean. LIke hes doing this and that because hes turning. what does that have to do with what our main issue is that hes always getting the rub and upper hand. Now look hes the 3 time champion, who fucking guest that.

I do hope he turns heel just so maybe something changes and other people come out out doing him.


also hes like these other dudes that throw away logic and peoples views before them. thinking they are some how doing something better. Movies and tv and any other form of entertainment have never changed for a logical reason. but these insecure wrestlers somehow are different and desperate to prove otherwise. Like the bucks having people bitch at them for not selling and they just mock fans. Imagine a movie or show doing this, you cant because it would not sell. So cody feels hes special and does not have to fit the bill of a face or heel because hes the greater good and look at how many people suffer from the results of him.


----------



## yeahbaby! (Jan 27, 2014)

Erik. said:


> I'd like to think people can separate a character on a TV show and a person in different entertainment platforms.
> 
> Hogan was the hottest heel in the industry and still got movie deals and invited on talk shows. As well as done all the charities.


Sure but Hogan wasn't around in the social media era. It's a way different time now for obvious reasons. Media companies will account for anything they think might cause a stir.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Bryan is pretty spot-on here


----------



## DUSTY 74 (Aug 11, 2021)

.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Bryan is pretty spot-on here



you surely dont get it when you think main eventing matters or has anything to do with this. Come on man the main event of dynamite is often mixed group tag matches of randoms that mean nothing. Why are you so bent on proving everyone wrong. As if everyone is just coming up with this out of their ass. The amount of attention hes putting into is he turning or not turning is beyond laughable. A t-shirt tha says heel and face. This shit i all right in our face and you still dont buy into it. Ps some of my words may come off as me being aggressive towards you but I'm not. Just my choice of words to describe him lol. Anyways are you just a insanely big fan of him ? no disrespect but you cant seem to let it off with everyone hatng on him. just curious

and again all this does with him lately is prove our point.


----------



## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

Yeah I'm really starting to not like Cody, and not in a good way like a hate MJF, more like a get the fuck off my TV way. Plus he's not even fully turned yet.


----------



## Fearless Viper (Apr 6, 2019)




----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)




----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Want proof that they are not currently trying to turn Cody heel..? They have him in a program with Dan Lambert (once again, we have Cody piggy-backing off a Jericho program), someone who is supposed to be an AEW fan’s greatest heel: the living embodiment of the Cult of Cornette.

And further proof of Cody’s lack of commitment burying his opponents’ gimmicks is the fact that Dan Lambert is turning face before your very eyes, because the fans are tired of Cody’s shit.

And don’t you fucking DARE try to retcon this bullshit as part of some long-term storytelling plan to turn Lambert face. This would be #2 for Cody killing a heel’s gimmick with Malakai being the first.


----------



## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> Want proof that they are not currently trying to turn Cody heel..? They have him in a program with Dan Lambert (once again, we have Cody piggy-backing off a Jericho program), someone who is supposed to be an AEW fan’s greatest heel: the living embodiment of the Cult of Cornette.
> 
> And further proof of Cody’s lack of commitment burying his opponents’ gimmicks is the fact that Dan Lambert is turning face before your very eyes, because the fans are tired of Cody’s shit.
> 
> And don’t you fucking DARE try to retcon this bullshit as part of some long-term storytelling plan to turn Lambert face. This would be #2 for Cody killing a heel’s gimmick with Malakai being the first.


You nailed it on the head. The only part you didn't mention is how they made that entire segment about Lambert and Brandi, while Page, who is the guy actually facing Cody, just stands there like he is irrelevant. They even tried to tease a fight between Brandi and Lambert. Fuck, I can't wait until Ethan Page gets away from Lambert, Cody and Sky. That guy is too talented for this garbage.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)




----------

