# Ticket sales for upcoming Dynamite events are a disaster



## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

Except for Toronto, they’re basically not selling any tickets. Actually scary. Look:










VERY small arena in Washington which they’ve gone before and sold out. Upper decck has barely sold any tickets.










Show coming up in 3 weeks in Cincinatti. Upper deck closed. Hard cam side also closed. Only three sections have sold out in the lower deck.










I don’t have the map here. But hard cam closes again and heavy blue means plenty of tickets available. Not good.









Hard cam again closed and barely any tickets sold even on the floor.

This is actually pretty scary stuff for the company. WWE shows are doing extremely well right now. Not the case at all for AEW.


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## Ockap (Jun 11, 2021)

It's like people are tired of seeing midgets doing gymnastics and pretentious women botching.


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

They keep running the same areas.

Do a few in UK, do some in Alberta Canada, do some in Quebec., Winnipeg whatever

It ain't the pandemic anymore. Do some traveling.


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

La Parka said:


> They keep running the same areas.
> 
> Do a few in UK, do some in Alberta Canada, do some in Quebec., Winnipeg whatever
> 
> It ain't the pandemic anymore. Do some traveling.


Maybe you sell more tickets but you also incur a lot more cost. So would the profit margin be higher?


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Saintpat said:


> Maybe you sell more tickets but you also incur a lot more cost. So would the profit margin be higher?


They could've charged people 500 bucks in Toronto and it woulda been sold out. So I imagine they'd have a good profit. I feel like AEW is probably bigger in UK and Canada than most people think. 

At least for the first few tours, they'll get a good return and by then the USA cities will be up for coming back to another show.


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## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

Saintpat said:


> Maybe you sell more tickets but you also incur a lot more cost. So would the profit margin be higher?


Cut the 100 wrestlers you don't even use? That would help costs,no?


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## Teemu™ (12 mo ago)

La Parka said:


> They could've charged people 500 bucks in Toronto and it woulda been sold out. So I imagine they'd have a good profit. I feel like AEW is probably bigger in UK and Canada than most people think.
> 
> At least for the first few tours, they'll get a good return and by then the USA cities will be up for coming back to another show.


Smark stuff is always huge in Canada and especially the UK. Look at all the big smark YouTubers from COOLTAHOLIC to WRESSSLELAYMIA and WOTCOLTZA, they're all from the UK and they all love them some AYEDOBBYA.

I generally blame the UK wrestling culture for ruining the world, but that's a different conversation.


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

Why go outside the U.S. when you can just go back to Chicago every few weeks?


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## redban (Feb 16, 2007)

Does AEW usually sell out fast, or is this slow rate typical for them? If the latter, then this detail is a non-issue


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

If these areas are still unsold the day of then yes it's an issue. However, they should start running new areas, like the fact it took them 3 years to go over and do a real West Coast tour is surprising, especially considering even NJPW have had a bunch of successful shows over there. You can only go to the same areas so many times before the interest isn't as strong. 

It's interesting though that they've had some of their best ratings for the last 5 weeks in some time and we're oddly pivoting to ticket sales.


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## D Z (Nov 30, 2019)

AEW is slowly cooling off attendance wise, they may have to rent even smaller buildings in the future and have crowds like 90's ECW did.

Yoy for tv is down, so is demo yoy. 

All Out buys were down from last year.

Was to be expected, smark fans and wrestling hipsters are mostly fickle and flip/floppy and they're unstable and very contradictory fanbase.


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## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

redban said:


> Does AEW usually sell out fast, or is this slow rate typical for them? If the latter, then this detail is a non-issue


They usually sell way more tickets than that. It’s not looking good.


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

redban said:


> Does AEW usually sell out fast, or is this slow rate typical for them? If the latter, then this detail is a non-issue


I’m sure others have followed this more closely then me but from my memory they sold out fast a lot in the earlier days and first months back touring after the COVID shutdown … but mostly those were scalpers buying up the seats. (There has been speculation that TK himself may have been doing that to create a facade of higher demand than was really there, plus making money reselling them on the secondary market at a higher price due to the scarcity he created … not sure if true but British boxing promoter Eddie Hearn was known to do that for big shows so it’s not unheard of).

Then there came a point where scalpers were getting stuck with tickets because demand wasn’t actually there. They were eating them. So they stopped buying them up and we see a different pattern.

On the whole, their big PPVs and other big shows seem to do well. Their weekly stuff isn’t doing bad but they are booking smaller arenas and blocking off a lot of seating so the scale is smaller — if you “almost” sell out with 5,700 seats in a 10K seat arena, that says something. I believe All Out didn’t even sell out in Chicago with Punk headlining.

I think there are a lot of moving parts — running the same markets too often rather than branching out to create new ‘hot spots’ of demand, not as much build-up to what’s coming, I remember we used to see a lot of posts about this or that roster member being in a town doing press like a week ahead to drum up interest but I haven’t seen that (other than big shows like All Out or Grand Slam) in a while (maybe they still are but you don’t hear about it). And for some stuff we just don’t know what’s coming — main events announced a week or two before, for instance.

Personally, I think there’s a need for TK to hire a competent social media team and a real marketing agency to do the job of hyping shows and getting the word out and creating demand. Heck, the website still has Mox as champ and Punk as No. 1 contender (from Aug. 31) and is not updated regularly. Too much of it is just Tony tweeting and … that’s about it.


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## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

4600 tickets sold for Philadelphia this Wednesday. Not good.


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## Teemu™ (12 mo ago)

I made some killer apple pie, by the way. Gonna enjoy it here as I wait for the AEW Defense Force to spin this. Let's see what they come up with this time.


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## HookedOnThuganomics (10 mo ago)

Mr316 said:


> Except for Toronto, they’re basically not selling any tickets. Actually scary. Look:
> 
> View attachment 134353
> 
> ...


It's almost as if doing disrespectful garbage like releasing a shirt like this 










will kill business, the reason the WWE is doing so well is they are mostly family friendly. Also no CM Punk/Elite has also killed interest, also sponsoring a dead brand like ROH is killing people's interest. I don't even have it in me to watch live anymore after Moxley became champion again.


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## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

Everything about AEW is starting to have that TNA 2011 feel. Small crowds. No clear vision for the product. Poor marketing.


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## BettsyUK (5 mo ago)

Poor sales, no masking or denying it.

Also, I agree with the comment above about going to new arenas and different states. If you're going to lose money due to declining sales in stale markets then you absolutely have to try new markets and give the slow moving ones a break.

You'll make more money in the new markets and the slower moving ones will have a nice bounce and uprise in ticket movement due to a rest period.


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## Teemu™ (12 mo ago)

Mr316 said:


> Everything about AEW is starting to have that TNA 2011 feel. Small crowds. No clear vision for the production.


More like 1984 Crockett, according to Tony.


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## Omos=Next Big Thing (7 mo ago)

Honeymoon phase is long over and I think it does not help that it feels like most of AEW shows are in the North East. Go to other places.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Mr316 said:


> Everything about AEW is starting to have that TNA 2011 feel. Small crowds. No clear vision for the product. Poor marketing.


has TNA ever had a crowd of 4000 people?


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## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

Geeee said:


> has TNA ever had a crowd of 4000 people?


Yes.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Mr316 said:


> Yes.


well, the Impact Zone only holds a few hundred people and when Impact went touring it was largely thought of as a major mistake


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Geeee said:


> well, the Impact Zone only holds a few hundred people and when Impact went touring it was largely thought of as a major mistake


Not sure how accurate this site is, but they did break that quite a few times.





__





TNA Attendance Records







oswreview.com





I remember watching some of the UK shows, they honestly got consistently decent crowds over there for years.


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## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

Geeee said:


> well, the Impact Zone only holds a few hundred people and when Impact went touring it was largely thought of as a major mistake


It was indeed a major mistake and they mostly had crowds of around 3000 to 5000 fans. Similar to AEW right now.


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## arch.unleash (Aug 31, 2016)

Good, I hope it dies soon.


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## JeSeGaN (Jun 5, 2018)

Where are all the AEW defense force people at?

@LifeInCattleClass 
@3venflow 
@Prosper 
@DammitChrist 

Get the eff in here!


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

Just go back to Dailey’s Place in Jacksonville.

Shad can threaten to keep the Jags there if AEW doesn’t sell out every week.


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## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

The economy is also a factor. People are hurting and single white dudes who work mediocre to poor jobs (the majority of AEWs audience) aren't gonna have the disposable income around to make these shows, especially when they go to the same places over and over and there's no novelty to going to another Dynamite when you've been to 4 in the last 2 years.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

JeSeGaN said:


> Where are all the AEW defense force people at?
> 
> @LifeInCattleClass
> @3venflow
> ...


is 4000 bad?


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## Teemu™ (12 mo ago)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> is 4000 bad?


WrestleMania drew short of 80 thousand on two consecutive nights.


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## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

RainmakerV2 said:


> The economy is also a factor. People are hurting and single white dudes who work mediocre to poor jobs (the majority of AEWs audience) aren't gonna have the disposable income around to make these shows, especially when they go to the same places over and over and there's no novelty to going to another Dynamite when you've been to 4 in the last 2 years.


And you also risk of getting an awful show with an awful main event involving Deonna Purazzo or Jay Lethal or Juice Robinson…


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Teemu™ said:


> WrestleMania drew short of 80 thousand on two consecutive nights.


is this a PPV over 2 nights?


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## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> is 4000 bad?


4000 is pretty damn bad for a market like Philadelphia or Washington. Raw and Smackdown does over 10,000 in these markets.


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

Geeee said:


> well, the Impact Zone only holds a few hundred people and when Impact went touring it was largely thought of as a major mistake


What’s AEW doing in the Impact Zone?

Or maybe …

Impact is All Elite?


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Saintpat said:


> What’s AEW doing in the Impact Zone?
> 
> Or maybe …
> 
> Impact is All Elite?


AEW does sometimes tape Dark in the Impact Zone


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

They have been catering to the hardcores vs creating new fans. Law of diminishing returns will get you every time even if some want to stick their heads in the sand.



HookedOnThuganomics said:


> It's almost as if doing disrespectful garbage like releasing a shirt like this
> 
> View attachment 134359
> 
> ...


Imagine actually thinking this though. During the attitude era when the peak number of people were watching wrestling, you had Undertaker sacrificing Austin on his symbol cross and Kane was the Devil's Favorite Demon.

But no, a shirt about a non-existent entity is going to make religious pearl clutchers not buy tickets.


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Mr316 said:


> Everything about AEW is starting to have that TNA 2011 feel. Small crowds. No clear vision for the product. Poor marketing.


At least they haven't made a mistake like having Eddie Edwards beat Bobby Lashley.

Oh wait they put the title on Adam Page instead of Bryan Danielson.


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## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

Teemu™ said:


> I made some killer apple pie, by the way. Gonna enjoy it here as I wait for the *AEW Defense Force *to spin this. Let's see what they come up with this time.


You mean the Eyeroll Brigade? 🤣


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

RainmakerV2 said:


> The economy is also a factor. People are hurting and single white dudes who work mediocre to poor jobs (the majority of AEWs audience) aren't gonna have the disposable income around to make these shows, especially when they go to the same places over and over and there's no novelty to going to another Dynamite when you've been to 4 in the last 2 years.


The average AEW fan has a job?


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## imscotthALLIN (Feb 18, 2015)

Tony will make that episode of Dynamite the absolute very best episode ever! With surprises around every corner! Who will debut?! Get your tickets today!! …tumbleweed…


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## Teemu™ (12 mo ago)

imscotthALLIN said:


> Tony will make that episode of Dynamite the absolute very best episode ever! With surprises around every corner! Who will debut?! Get your tickets today!! …tumbleweed…


Too bad they can't get Mike Graham for the Rise and Fall of AEW DVD.
"Booked a thousand debuts, never drew a dime."


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

JeSeGaN said:


> Where are all the AEW defense force people at?
> 
> @LifeInCattleClass
> @3venflow
> ...


AEW's ticket sales are not as high as a year ago, that much is true. They had just signed two huge free agents a year ago and Omega wasn't gone yet, so they had their maximum drawing options.

However, they are not anywhere near disastrous state. They're not as competitive with WWE (televised) as they were last year, but they're still doing some solid business. They just did a million dollar gate again, which is far more impressive than it sounds.

Wednesday's show in Philly has moved 4,700 which isn't bad for a TV event. Could be more, but it's hardly a disaster and has one match announced. They just opened hardcam side seats too and I wouldn't be surprised if it's closer to 5k by bell time.

Jan 4 Seattle sold over 5,100 already. @La Parka is right in saying they should do more new markets, they did almost 15,000 for their Cali debut earlier this year. They have re-run the same markets over and over. They already did the same building in Philly this year for the show with Dax vs. Cash.

Full Gear pre-sale + day one sold over 9,000 and this will probably turn out to be their fifth $1m gate of 2022 and all-time if it sells the rest when they open more seats.

Canada Dynamite tickets flew and the event would've been better at a bigger building. They should have done two or three shows in Canada really.

The worst one is the live Rampage/Battle of the Belts in DC which last I checked was around 2,000. There's a lot of live Rampages coming up and they're a tough sell because Rampage hasn't exactly set the world on fire. AEW is practically doubling its number of live events in October and November and testing the waters with Rampage as a live show regularly.

TNA would've bent over backwards for this sort of 'disastrous' sales. Come bell time, Wednesday's show will likely have a number that would've been in TNA's top five of all time domestic attendances.

If AEW want to put more butts in seats they can drop prices again. The typical ticket, particularly for marquee events, is a lot more than it was a year ago, which is why they're doing bigger gates. I don't think they'll do this unless there is a negative long-term trend where profits are lower from higher prices/lower attendances than lower prices/higher attendances. This has probably been AEW's biggest year for ticket revenues even though it'll be their second biggest year for total attendance.

All Out 2021 = 10,126 at NOW Arena = $630k
Full Gear 2021 = 10,442 at Target Center = $650k
All Out 2022 = 10,014 at NOW Arena = $1.1m


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## toon126 (Nov 10, 2015)

They need to venture out. I get that some cities are not hot wrestling crowds, WWE have helped to prove that with their schedule. Some places suck for fans. But AEW still needs to head towards them, you won’t get sellouts in the same few cities every few weeks.

And come to the U.K. ffs. Fan base here is made for shows like Dynamite.


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## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE (Sep 12, 2013)

So I wonder if they let Bryan Danielson actually look strong in Seattle? I won't be watching until I hear they are doing something worthwhile with him and treating him commensurate to his talent. He'll probably lose clean to Darby that night. 

At least Total Kunt won't keep preventing him from working for DEFY once that Dynamite card happens.


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## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

To be fair, I'd be more concerned if they failed to sell the higher prices tickets over the cheap ones.


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## DJ Punk (Sep 1, 2016)

All the injuries, CM Punk/Elite suspensions, one of your top stars preaching how he wants to jump ship in 2024, and all the backstage drama crap sure isn't helping maintain interest. Plus the lack of actual good storylines also hurts the product. I used to defend AEW to death, but this clusterfucky bs and backstage egos have gone a bit too far now.

And to those who say "Why does the backstage stuff hurt your enjoyment of the product?", it's rather simple: Punk and the Elite were newly crowned champions and that was all thrown away a couple days later. Makes my investment in watching All Out feel worthless. Sure, the matches were great, but I want a solid payoff as well besides just marking out for in ring action. The constant injuries are also an issue in this regard. The Jungle Boy/Christian feud is the current best feud and now Christian is injured...then Bobby Fish leaves so all that UE vs Elite build up was for nothing. Then u get random ROH, NJPW, or Impact guys on the card that take up spots from current talent just to never be seen again. The list goes on.

AEW needs to get its shit together. Make the fans have a reason to attend and tune in because at the end of the day it's episodic weekly television. People don't want to invest time in plotlines that never lead to anything substantial.

That's kind of why I never liked watching NXT back in the day. All this build up for talent to be made jokes on the main roster (which is no longer an issue since HHH is in charge). Have proper build ups with proper payoff/end rant


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## drougfree (Aug 9, 2016)

no punk no buys


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE said:


> So I wonder if they let Bryan Danielson actually look strong in Seattle? I won't be watching until I hear they are doing something worthwhile with him and treating him commensurate to his talent. He'll probably lose clean to Darby that night.


I think they may headline that one with Danielson vs. Darby. I'm not sure what the plans for Wardlow and the TNT belt are, but Danielson would be a great TNT champ as he can defend against anyone and have a good match, which I feel is what the spirit of the TNT title was early on. Danielson (c) vs. Darby for the TNT title would be a great main event for Seattle.

Swerve is also from 30 miles away (Tacoma) and is on the poster with those two. As I said, this one sold over 5,100 tickets in its first couple of days on sale as it's a brand new market. There's lots of money to be made from new markets. In 2023 they're debuting in NorCal and the UK, but should look at places like Germany, Japan and more Canadian towns.


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## TheGreatBanana (Jul 7, 2012)

How many times has AEW gone to Chicago? At least WWE is willing to visit parts of America that aren’t well known and they don’t kill the market by touring in the same city over and over.

AEW is afraid to swim in the deep waters. Heck they’re too scared to go against Raw or Smackdown head to head.


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## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

TheGreatBanana said:


> How many times has AEW gone to Chicago? At least WWE is willing to visit parts of America that aren’t well known and they don’t kill the market by touring in the same city over and over.
> 
> AEW is afraid to swim in the deep waters. Heck they’re too scared to go against Raw or Smackdown head to head.


Why would they go head to head when they’re literally on at different days. Agree with your first statement tho

going head to head is just poor business


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## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

I know a lot of people who never really liked the product, but stuck around to support competition to WWE. I think AEW took that for granted and thought that those people were fans of the product. WWE has lost about 3 million fans in the last 6-7 years, a lot of those lapsed fans want an alternative. This was a slam dunk for AEW, but they fucked it up


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## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

The XL 2 said:


> I know a lot of people who never really liked the product, but stuck around to support competition to WWE. I think AEW took that for granted and thought that those people were fans of the product. WWE has lost about 3 million fans in the last 6-7 years, a lot of those lapsed fans want an alternative. This was a slam dunk for AEW, but they fucked it up


Fucked it up on day 1 when they had a bunch of losers like Brandon Cutler involved.


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Here's the estimated ticket distribution average per month since going back on the road (per WrestleTix + Wrestlenomics).

July 2021: 5,249
August 2021: 6,206
September 2021: 8,479
October 2021: 4,470
November 2021: 6,053
December 2021: 6,153

January 2022: 5,127
February 2022: 5,529
March 2022: 4,672
April 2022: 5,183
May 2022: 6,740
June 2022: 7,703
July 2022: 4,985
August 2022: 5,545
September 2022: ca. 7,860 (one show left, likely will drop the average to 7,350-ish)

Top three months:

1. September 2021
2. September 2022* (likely to drop to third)
3. June 2022

Bottom three months:

1. October 2021
2. March 2022
3. July 2022

So yeah, there is no disaster, just ebbs and flows. Also reminder that ticket prices for many events are higher now too, hence their four biggest gates ever coming in 2022.


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## I eat mangos (Sep 23, 2014)

Teemu™ said:


> Smark stuff is always huge in Canada and especially the UK. Look at all the big smark YouTubers from COOLTAHOLIC to WRESSSLELAYMIA and WOTCOLTZA, they're all from the UK and they all love them some AYEDOBBYA.
> 
> I generally blame the UK wrestling culture for ruining the world, but that's a different conversation.


It wouldn't be unfair to suggest that the UK's wrestling media is largely a bunch of utterly emasculated toddlers desperately stroking at each other and whispering whimsically into each other's mouths. 

And while there are the odd one or two I don't despise, for the most part I'll never understand how these little cups of semen can have spent their lives watching something about big angry men fighting and have turned out to be such lightweight, malnourished pussies...


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## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

D Z said:


> AEW is slowly cooling off attendance wise, they may have to rent even smaller buildings in the future and have crowds like 90's ECW did.
> 
> Yoy for tv is down, so is demo yoy.
> 
> ...


I did the has AEW already passed it’s peak for a reason.

They’ve passed it, and are on the downward slide now. Next year’s Grand Slam won’t sell more than half of this year’s tickets. The 2024 Grand Slam will be the last one at Ashe, and will sell less than 3K. There is only room for one competently run wrestling company.

They’re toast, whether Tony realizes it or not.


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## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

RainmakerV2 said:


> The economy is also a factor. People are hurting and single white dudes who work mediocre to poor jobs (the majority of AEWs audience) aren't gonna have the disposable income around to make these shows, especially when they go to the same places over and over and there's no novelty to going to another Dynamite when you've been to 4 in the last 2 years.


This is far too sensible for most of this forum. I'll translate it into snarky cunt for you.

NERR TK IS SUCH A LOOZER!!! HE HAS LOTS OF MONEY AND IT MAKES MY PEANUT DICK SEEM EVEN SMALLER!!! WHY CAN'T IT BE THE SAME AS WWE? ATTITUDE ERA, ATTITUDE ERA, ATTITUDE ERA. MIDGETS, MIDGETS, MIDGETS. NECKBEARDS, NECKBEARDS, NECKBEARDS. GEEKS, GEEKS, GEEKS!!! AEW HAS MORE LETTERS THAN I HAVE FRIENDS BUT FEWER THAN WANKS I HAVE PER DAY OVER _insert female wrestler here_

The rest of us get laid and enjoy life.

But yeah, the economy and visiting the same cities are probably the two largest factors by far here. Though interest is clearly there, as the expensive seats seem to be sold out.



I eat mangos said:


> It wouldn't be unfair to suggest that the UK's wrestling media is largely a bunch of utterly emasculated toddlers desperately stroking at each other and whispering whimsically into each other's mouths.
> 
> And while there are the odd one or two I don't despise, for the most part I'll never understand how these little cups of semen can have spent their lives watching something about big angry men fighting and have turned out to be such lightweight, malnourished pussies...


And it wouldn't be unfair that us British fans would tell you to go and eat something that isn't a mango. Unfortunately, wrestling isn't masculine at all. It's play fighting for 10 year olds. Let's be honest here.


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## CenaBoy4Life (Jul 31, 2013)

Tony was buying up his own tickets for years. There is no market for it and they keep running the same damn markets over and over.


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## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

It's been interesting reading the mental gymnastics used by fanboys trying to make light of this. These ticket sales suck.


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## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

TheGreatBanana said:


> How many times has AEW gone to Chicago? At least WWE is willing to visit parts of America that aren’t well known and they don’t kill the market by touring in the same city over and over.
> 
> AEW is afraid to swim in the deep waters. Heck they’re too scared to go against Raw or Smackdown head to head.



They have no reason to go head to head.


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## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

Geeee said:


> has TNA ever had a crowd of 4000 people?





Geeee said:


> well, the Impact Zone only holds a few hundred people and when Impact went touring it was largely thought of as a major mistake





Geeee said:


> AEW does sometimes tape Dark in the Impact Zone


TNA such a small company still living rent free in fanboys minds.


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## I am Groot (May 2, 2017)

With the current state of the economy, why would you waste money on this current product?


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## BrrrGoesWooo! (Mar 29, 2021)

I think this is a case of AEW having put all their eggs in one basket with Punk. He was seemingly the lynchpin for a lot of the top stories and his injury royally fucked them. So instead of a summer of Punk building momentum for the MJF return (possibly with the involvement of Wardlow and FTR on punks side) we got a valiant effort from Mox and Jericho to try and keep the wheels from falling off. 

Then when Punk comes back and it looks like they're about to right the ship, Punk gets injured again, we get the gripebomb, 4 of your top players get benched in a backstage brawl and whatever plans they had leading into Full Gear (keep in mind this was already a plan B course correct) get tossed out the window and you're forced to take a hard pivot again. 

This isn't even to mention the Undisputed Elite's complete collapse, when that would have been the obvious go to storyline for Kenny's return teaming with The Bucks. You've also got new trios titles that could have given new life to House of Black who have now competely collapsed as well and now Christian is injured.

-----

As much as I like the longer-term storylines that AEW runs, this time it really came back to bite them in the ass and we're seeing the results. This is why WWE doesn't do long term stuff often. 

It's not all doom and gloom like some of the weird haters would like to say and they will find a way to work things out eventually, but the injury bug hit them fuckin _hard,_ and Punk's tantrum has set them waaay back. Will be interesting to see how they pick up the pieces going forward, but there are certainly a lot of disillusioned fans at the moment, seemingly the younger fans as well going by the demo. People were riding a high that seemed to be culminating and probably would have had a pretty great payoff only for everything to come crashing down (and it hurts inside )

Also, I agree with everyone else here who has said they need to start traveling more. They've been leaning too hard on the North East and Chicago. It's a great market but people only have so much money, especially now that they've raised ticket prices, and people's enthusiasm stores are dwindling especially in a time of uncertainty regarding the path going forward.


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## ireekofawesumnes (Mar 4, 2017)

sales are down for the weekly shows without question
our inventory was FLYING last summer when shows came back, which was a combination of pent up demand from the scamdemic as well as a really solid product being put out at the time IMO
it boggles my mind why they EVER do live rampages as standalone shows...
and as others have stated, they hit the same markets WAY too frequently


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## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

Hotdiggity11 said:


> They have no reason to go head to head.


Exactly. We live in 2022 and can watch both (fancy that Nancies!), which makes head yo head pointless.

Not to mention that it's monumentally stupid, as TNA and NXT found out.



TheDraw said:


> TNA such a small company still living rent free in fanboys minds.


It was a huge thing for wrestling fans in the 00s. You know it's big when wrestling fans loved it and snarky scenesters hated it, despite never watching it. 

Then Hogan and Bischoff fucked it. Oh well, back to watching Hornswoggle humping a grown man's leg, like the Nancies wanted back then. 

The lesson is, no one likes Nancies.


----------



## ROHBot (4 mo ago)

I guess The honeymoon is over....

im going to start checking out Impact. heard Scott is doing a great job


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> I think this is a case of AEW having put all their eggs in one basket with Punk. He was seemingly the lynchpin for a lot of the top stories and his injury royally fucked them. So instead of a summer of Punk building momentum for the MJF return (possibly with the involvement of Wardlow and FTR on punks side) we got a valiant effort from Mox and Jericho to try and keep the wheels from falling off.



Pretty much. It's the equivalent of Hogan tearing an ACL in 1984 or Austin having to go on hiatus in late 1997 with his neck injury. AEW still has stars but they were obviously building up for a "Summer of Punk" with MJF being the main adversary.


----------



## Scuba Steve (Sep 29, 2021)

Mr316 said:


> 4600 tickets sold for Philadelphia this Wednesday. Not good.


4600 with a max capacity setup of 5700. 



Mr316 said:


> 4000 is pretty damn bad for a market like Philadelphia or Washington. Raw and Smackdown does over 10,000 in these markets.


Raw January 10th 2022 in Philly had 7000 sold.


----------



## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

Woah AEW is coming to Toronto! 

Gonna get tickets right away. Thx OP 👍


----------



## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

CenaBoy4Life said:


> Tony was buying up his own tickets for years. There is no market for it and they keep running the same damn markets over and over.


I want AEW to succeed, but I just don’t see the growth plan anymore. He’s hoping for a huge rights deal to save him, when WB will likely be acquired itself by NBC Universal next year, who already has a higher performing WWE.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

Not looking good. They're already fucked financially, AEW is already 50 billion dollars in debt, they don't need anymore troubles.


----------



## D Z (Nov 30, 2019)

Bingo hall AEW in 2025.


----------



## BLISSED & LYNCHED (Dec 21, 2021)

When they inevitably lose their TV deal and either end up on a no name network or a streaming service it's likely TK will just make Dalys Place their one and only location with maybe exception to ppvs. Impact style! Only the product will still be worse than Impact.


----------



## Businessman (Mar 20, 2021)

I don’t expect AEW to fold anytime soon but not being renewed by Warner Bros. Discovery would do so much damage to the company that I’m not sure Khan would even want to continue the project on a smaller cable network with less reach and could look to eventually sell the brand

2023 will be very interesting when it comes to the business of pro wrestling


----------



## AliFrazier100 (Feb 2, 2019)

Teemu™ said:


> I made some killer apple pie, by the way. Gonna enjoy it here as I wait for the AEW Defense Force to spin this. Let's see what they come up with this time.


I actually made apple pie today too.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan (Nov 19, 2021)

They couldn’t come to Canada until just recently. They are just now relaxing the rules and opening the border.

TK running three straight in Chicago was really really stupid. Running two in a row would be fine and is done all the time in recent history. Three times though? Is this CMLL where they run bi-weekly in the same city for like EIGHTY NINE YEARS.

Chicago is also no Mexico City - take that for what you will…but CMLL can do that. AEW is not based in Chicago either. Doing three straight in one city is just really really stupid. I know I said that already but it really can’t be said enough.

Thanks to the idiot Punk that city might not even be an option going forward. He made sure to poison the well that was once AEW’s best city. Thanks for everything their Mr. Brooks. Now, either beg for your job or deny your home city wrestling that they seem to be enjoying in Chicago. I don’t think TK should hold his breath on that happening anytime soon.

Basically, we should really prepare to go without Chicago several times a yearfrom now on.

As far as ticket sales go - I still don’t care. We don’t know the AEW finances. Making up numbers like the AEW game cost, AEW somehow being FIFTY MILLION in debt and the fake salaries posted by someone not from AEW means nothing to me.

The paranoid conspiracy that says TK buys up all the seats to create a fake demand…I guess some of you are rather creative in how you try to convince yourself that your life is not wasted. Watch something you enjoy!

If AEW goes under I will just follow the indies again. No AEW would make them stronger again. If the indies aren’t doing it for me I will turn to Japan, Mexico and the UK scene again. I don’t think I ever saw a busy forum for those territories overrun with trolls and doomsayers. I guess they know what a waste of life that would be. That was most of the last twenty three years.

There is just something about AEW that seems to offend the sensibilities of some people.


----------



## chronoxiong (Apr 1, 2005)

How many times did they run shows in Chicago? Lol. Seems like AEW is just going to the same towns here and there. They never come to California. Would love to see if they can sell out the Save Mart Center in Fresno. Or San Jose.


----------



## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

I do feel like AEW needs to try different areas from the usual. Like take a break from Chicago for a long time.

All of this other "gloom and doom" stuff isn't anything to worry about.


----------



## Black Metal (Apr 30, 2018)

Their traveling is a bit bizarre.

At the end of 2021 and the start of 2022 they had 3 NC shows back to back to back within a month. The last one was Raleigh in Janaury. It's been 9 months and still no tickets for NC have showed up again on AEWTIX. Evidently Greensboro is to be the "center" for the Holiday Bash episode annually (I attended it in 2021 and according to last year in a written article). We'll see if that rings true, even if so that's a long stretch without any shows here.

I'm tired of Chicago shows. It feels like they're there every month.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

They keep running in the same few markets, something that Tiny actually brags about for some reason. 

And the shine is off AEW at this point. They were supposed to be an alternative but at this point its a company dominated by guys and gals who made their name in the WWE and they have the same issues of feuds that drag on, unfunny comedy acts and the same tiny group of people always being on top.


----------



## Stadhart (Jan 25, 2009)

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> I think this is a case of AEW having put all their eggs in one basket with Punk. He was seemingly the lynchpin for a lot of the top stories and his injury royally fucked them. So instead of a summer of Punk building momentum for the MJF return (possibly with the involvement of Wardlow and FTR on punks side) we got a valiant effort from Mox and Jericho to try and keep the wheels from falling off.
> 
> Then when Punk comes back and it looks like they're about to right the ship, Punk gets injured again, we get the gripebomb, 4 of your top players get benched in a backstage brawl and whatever plans they had leading into Full Gear (keep in mind this was already a plan B course correct) get tossed out the window and you're forced to take a hard pivot again.
> 
> ...


Agree with all this and just quoting this saves me posting

TNA did 10,000 in the UK at Wembley during it's heyday. AEW could easily do the same although running a show at Craven Cottage would be a big mistake

I am still enjoying some of the shows but The Acclaimed are tag champs and FTR get a 5 second backstage segment...just stupid

I will still tune in for MJF and a couple of others - I am a big fan but even I find myself fast forwarding a lot of segments recently. Get the Elite back and get them back quickly


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Im sorry but The Acclaimed>>>>>FTR. And I like FTR. I just have not liked a tag as much as The Acclaimed since the 90s.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Oh no aews dead again. Oh no. It's like the 50th time it has died in last 3 years.


----------



## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

zkorejo said:


> Oh no aews dead again. Oh no. It's like the 50th time it has died in last 3 years.


No one said that. We’re just talking about how shit the ticket sales look for the upcoming shows.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Mr316 said:


> No one said that. We’re just talking about how shit the ticket sales look for the upcoming shows.


It's not really that bad, considering the price hike.


----------



## ROHBot (4 mo ago)

zkorejo said:


> Oh no aews dead again. Oh no. It's like the 50th time it has died in last 3 years.


You spelled TNA wrong.

AEWs demise hasnt really been a thing yet


----------



## NascarStan (Mar 26, 2019)

This says quite a bit

1) running the same 10 areas is fucking stupid, the market has been oversaturated and the fact Toronto and Seattle are the best selling locations says it all (also mind blown they haven't been to Seattle yet, perfect for the AEW audience)

2) people are less likely to bite on increased ticket prices which furthers the point that the AEW fanbase is lower end and advertisers do not like people who don't have $$$


----------



## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

zkorejo said:


> It's not really that bad, considering the price hike.


😂😂😂


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Mr316 said:


> 😂😂😂


Could have just reacted.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Scuba Steve said:


> 4600 with a max capacity setup of 5700.
> 
> 
> 
> Raw January 10th 2022 in Philly had 7000 sold.


Raw in Pittsburgh had nearly 10k in March


----------



## Kenny's Ghost (Nov 23, 2020)

AEW's travelling schedule is very strange that's for sure.


----------



## Scuba Steve (Sep 29, 2021)

the_flock said:


> Raw in Pittsburgh had nearly 10k in March


But we aren't discussing Pittsburgh, we are discussing Philly. And he claimed they always do 10k + in Philly, the lie detector determined that was a lie.


----------



## Scuba Steve (Sep 29, 2021)

Mr316 said:


> No one said that. We’re just talking about how shit the ticket sales look for the upcoming shows.


4600 out of a setup of 5700 isn't bad though, it's around 80% of the tickets made available. And WWE is running a PPV a couple weeks later in the same city so that can affect AEWs ticket sales as some who are fans of both may not be able to afford both and have to choose between an episode of Dynamite or a PPV event. 

Considering the last time the much bigger promotion in WWE ran TV in Philly (Raw in January) and only did 7k tells me AEW isn't doing poor in Philly like you are trying to suggest.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Scuba Steve said:


> But we aren't discussing Pittsburgh, we are discussing Philly. And he claimed they always do 10k + in Philly, the lie detector determined that was a lie.


I think everything in the this thread is just inflated. AEW's ticket sales aren't as bad as they're being made out to be. Their prior ticket sales weren't as good as they're made out to be either. I think I saw someone post that Impact would regularly sell 4,000 tickets which isn't true either.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

FITZ said:


> I think everything in the this thread is just inflated. AEW's ticket sales aren't as bad as they're being made out to be. Their prior ticket sales weren't as good as they're made out to be either. I think I saw someone post that Impact would regularly sell 4,000 tickets which isn't true either.


I literally posted the attendance data and like so many facts on here, it got largely no-sold. It showed that yes, ticket sales have often been down from last year (well, you don't get Punk + Danielson + Cole debuting every year) but are still by and large healthy. They don't need to be WWE-sized because they are operating on a different budget top to bottom. This month is currently their second (third after tomorrow) top drawing month since they returned to the road. And with higher ticket prices, it's 99% sure they have made more money this year.

October last year was their lowest drawing post-pandemic with an average of 4,470 so we'll see if it drops below that this year, especially with Rampage going live which adds more live events for a smaller brand show.

Here it is again:

July 2021: 5,249
August 2021: 6,206
September 2021: 8,479
October 2021: 4,470
November 2021: 6,053
December 2021: 6,153

January 2022: 5,127
February 2022: 5,529
March 2022: 4,672
April 2022: 5,183
May 2022: 6,740
June 2022: 7,703
July 2022: 4,985
August 2022: 5,545
September 2022: ca. 7,860 (one show left, likely will drop the average to 7,350-ish)

Top three months:

1. September 2021
2. September 2022* (likely to drop to third)
3. June 2022

Bottom three months:

1. October 2021
2. March 2022
3. July 2022


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Geeee said:


> has TNA ever had a crowd of 4000 people?


For Impact the highest they ever had was 4,500. Twice. Knoxville TN & Chicago. They ran 4,000 for an Impact in Jonesboro AK and that it for Impacts 4K+. Their highest PPV was 6,700 for Lockdown 2013 at the Alamo Dome in San Antonio. They had one UK show do higher than that, 8100, Angle v Jarrett headlined. That is the all time highest TNA attendance.


----------



## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

RainmakerV2 said:


> The economy is also a factor. People are hurting and single white dudes who work mediocre to poor jobs (the majority of AEWs audience) aren't gonna have the disposable income around to make these shows, especially when they go to the same places over and over and there's no novelty to going to another Dynamite when you've been to 4 in the last 2 years.


That may be a factor, but a thing to consider. WWE suffered no ill effects during the Great Recession when it came to attendance:










PPV buys were a bit more impacted.


----------



## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

Geeee said:


> well, the Impact Zone only holds a few hundred people and when Impact went touring it was largely thought of as a major mistake


It was a collosal mistake. They needed to draw around 5 - 7K fans (depending on the size of the building that they were running) in order for the TV taping not to lose money. And they were drawing around 3K or less for live Impacts. I recall reading that TNA was losing six figures for each live Impact broadcast.


----------



## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

Mr316 said:


> It was indeed a major mistake and they mostly had crowds of around 3000 to 5000 fans. Similar to AEW right now.


I think Impact's attendance was around 3K, and if I am not mistaken they were also running bigger buildings. AEW (at least here in Austin) was not booking the Moody or Irwin Center (15K Texas Longhorns arena) and instead was running the HEB Center in Cedar Park, which is where the Austin Spurs G League team plays. It only seats about 5K, and is undoubtedly cheaper to run.


----------



## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)




----------



## TeamFlareZakk (Jul 15, 2020)

Because Toronto is full of stupid idiot marks 😂

And its no surprise that AEW's ticket sales are down.


----------



## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

Mr316 said:


> View attachment 134473
> 
> View attachment 134474


Gotta book Jericho for the Entertainment and Sports Arena, right? You’d sell out in an instant.

Seriously, configured for … 3,400? Wow.


----------



## D Z (Nov 30, 2019)

All Out tickets were down from last year and so was Grand Slam.

Should see what happens as the months pass by.


----------



## RogueSlayer (Mar 31, 2021)

Good hopefully this is the start of them going out of business, AEW being a wrestling company is an insult to the wrestling industry the sooner they go out of business the better.


----------



## ChupaVegasX (5 mo ago)

Kenny's Ghost said:


> AEW's travelling schedule is very strange that's for sure.


Unless they’re doing a live Rampage, it’s not really a schedule. When you run once a week, it doesn’t matter where you’re traveling to.


----------



## ChupaVegasX (5 mo ago)

RogueSlayer said:


> Good hopefully this is the start of them going out of business, AEW being a wrestling company is an insult to the wrestling industry the sooner they go out of business the better.


Dumb


----------



## Chairshot620 (Mar 12, 2010)

Seafort said:


> I think Impact's attendance was around 3K, and if I am not mistaken they were also running bigger buildings. AEW (at least here in Austin) was not booking the Moody or Irwin Center (15K Texas Longhorns arena) and instead was running the HEB Center in Cedar Park, which is where the Austin Spurs G League team plays. It only seats about 5K, and is undoubtedly cheaper to run.


They may have averaged this from 2013 to 2015, if they were lucky. That’s a very small selective period of their existence however. They’ve been around since 2002. That’s some very selective cherry picking. On average over their lifetime attendance is much lower.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

Chairshot620 said:


> They may have averaged this from 2013 to 2015, if they were lucky. That’s a very small selective period of their existence however. They’ve been around since 2002. That’s some very selective cherry picking. On average over their lifetime attendance is much lower.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agreed…I was just referring to the time that they went live, on the road.


----------



## Jman55 (Nov 21, 2016)

From what I can tell AEW aren't really in dire straights here. Though they probably could easily improve their situation and aren't doing the best they can (moving to different areas would be a big help), they're still doing acceptably, Evenflow made a fantastic post detailing all the sales and showing this month as one of their highest selling post pandemic and yet we're having people saying these sales are straight awful rather than just ok but can be better with better planning which is what they actually are.

Really feels like the only way some people will admit AEW has been even remotely successful is if they're beating WWE in every metric.


----------



## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

Bring back cm punk the draw!


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

chronoxiong said:


> How many times did they run shows in Chicago? Lol. Seems like AEW is just going to the same towns here and there. They never come to California. Would love to see if they can sell out the Save Mart Center in Fresno. Or San Jose.




With no CM Punk, they no longer have a big reason to constantly go to Chicago so the crowd can blow him for the 18th straight time. Might be a good incentive to try some other markets.


----------



## ChupaVegasX (5 mo ago)

AEW is doing “just fine”. Anyone insinuating that they are in trouble, is just hating.


----------



## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

They would sell out easy in the UK or in some new markets. Need to quit going to same places all the time.


----------



## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

Disaster.


----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

RogueSlayer said:


> Good hopefully this is the start of them going out of business, AEW being a wrestling company is an insult to the wrestling industry the sooner they go out of business the better.


Agreed. 

I actually wish wrestling completely went away in 2001. There was nothing going to top the Attitude Era anyway so why waste the next 20 year fully of indy midget flippy geeks and nerds.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Mr316 said:


> View attachment 134607
> 
> 
> Disaster.


You skipped this one because you're so disingenuous. Rampage is a hard sell for a cold secondary show but at least present the good with the bad if you're capable of doing that. Nearly 3,800 people paying (a month out) for a one-hour show with a recent history of throwaway matches deserves as much praise as selling 1,000 tickets deserves doomsaying.


----------



## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

Yet another area where Tony’s lack of infrastructure is showing.

Hire someone (perhaps with a background of booking concert tours) to be in charge of live events, especially planning and mapping out of where/when to go different places; and hire someone to do full-time live event marketing. 

If he did, though, he’d probably just hand those responsibilities to a wrestler with no background in those spaces because he likes them.


----------



## Ayres (May 26, 2020)

AEW is struggling right now. They need to go international for a month, try new cities and avoid the east coast to expand the brand. I would consider going back to Jacksonville 2-3 times a year to reset everything and be in front of a home crowd.

AEW has burned out Chicago, time to move along


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Saintpat said:


> Yet another area where Tony’s lack of infrastructure is showing.
> 
> Hire someone (perhaps with a background of booking concert tours) to be in charge of live events, especially planning and mapping out of where/when to go different places; and hire someone to do full-time live event marketing.
> 
> If he did, though, he’d probably just hand those responsibilities to a wrestler with no background in those spaces because he likes them.


He does. Rafael Morffi who has 29 years experience in live events and was previously Senior Director of Live Event Marketing at WWE as well as holding roles at the NY Mets and NY Cosmos.


----------



## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

3venflow said:


> He does. Rafael Morffi who has 29 years experience in live events and was previously Senior Director of Live Event Marketing at WWE as well as holding roles at the NY Mets and NY Cosmos.


Well either Tony isn’t listening to him or he’s giving Tony lousy advice.

“You know, we haven’t been to Chicago for a couple of weeks … what say we go back?”


----------



## Scuba Steve (Sep 29, 2021)

Saintpat said:


> Well either Tony isn’t listening to him or he’s giving Tony lousy advice.
> 
> “You know, we haven’t been to Chicago for a couple of weeks … what say we go back?”


Chicago Dynamite - 6300+
Chicago Rampage - 5600+
Chicago All Out - 10 000+


----------



## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

Scuba Steve said:


> Chicago Dynamite - 6300+
> Chicago Rampage - 5600+
> Chicago All Out - 10 000+


All Out also didn’t quite Sell Out even with CMP in the main event.

Just found Rampage in Toronto tix for $5 apiece for a pair together. That’s a catastrophe in a market they’ve never been to — even the B show should do well.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan (Nov 19, 2021)

Kenny's Ghost said:


> AEW's travelling schedule is very strange that's for sure.


They toured almost exclusively Texas, Florida and the Carolina when crowds were allowed back. THAT was pretty annoying at the time. Fans being annoyed at the travel schedule is pretty far down on my list of concerns in the grand scheme of things. That is TK’s problem, not ours. That Philly crowd was hot for their hometown hero, Yuta. That was some EASY heat to get when sports teams get brought up. He had good heat against MJF. 

Yuta needs more experience speaking. Jericho’s early promos as he was turning would not be over with the crowd here just like Yuta. Bryan Danielson and The Briscoes were some of the most awkward promos I have ever heard in the first few years of ROH. They grew up a little and a couple years later they cut some of the best promos in wrestling at the time (2006-2009).

Maybe Yuta never develops his promos too much more. Ricky Steamboat is one of the absolute worst promos of all time. He is certainly the worst promo for someone with his stature and reputation as an elite member of the greatest ever wrestlers. Yuta is no Stramboat in the ring…but he MIGHT be better than Steamboat in promos already. That is not really something to brag about.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan (Nov 19, 2021)

Dr. Middy said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I actually wish wrestling completely went away in 2001. There was nothing going to top the Attitude Era anyway so why waste the next 20 year fully of indy midget flippy geeks and nerds.


Wrestling exists beyond cable television. 2001 had great wrestling from around the world.


----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Ultimo Duggan said:


> Wrestling exists beyond cable television. 2001 had great wrestling from around the world.


I was joking my dude.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan (Nov 19, 2021)

Dr. Middy said:


> I was joking my dude.


Whew. That seemed like an especially dire take.


----------



## Scuba Steve (Sep 29, 2021)

Saintpat said:


> All Out also didn’t quite Sell Out even with CMP in the main event.
> 
> Just found Rampage in Toronto tix for $5 apiece for a pair together. That’s a catastrophe in a market they’ve never been to — even the B show should do well.


Tickets being sold on a secondary/resellers market is not a catastrophe for AEW. Only for the seller unless he was gifted those tickets. 

Can we stop with the disingenuous posts? K thnx.


----------



## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

Scuba Steve said:


> Tickets being sold on a secondary/resellers market is not a catastrophe for AEW. Only for the seller unless he was gifted those tickets.
> 
> Can we stop with the disingenuous posts? K thnx.


Actually it does affect AEW.

AEW has a ton of tickets on sale for that event at full price. Which no one with a lick of sense is going to pay if they can get in for $5 on the secondary market. So they’ll buy the resale dump and not buy up the still-available full price seats.

And it looks like a lot of AEW tix in the past have been bought by scalpers but they won’t be doing so if they continue to eat them and take losses. Which means we start seeing declining ticket sales because only real fans are going to buy them, and judging from the numbers they aren’t doing so at a high rate. 

It’s a house of cards.


----------



## Scuba Steve (Sep 29, 2021)

Saintpat said:


> Actually it does affect AEW.
> 
> AEW has a ton of tickets on sale for that event at full price. Which no one with a lick of sense is going to pay if they can get in for $5 on the secondary market. So they’ll buy the resale dump and not buy up the still-available full price seats.
> 
> ...


Not everyone knows or uses the secondary market and those 5$ tickets are usually among the worst seats in the house. 

It won't have much of an affect in all likelihood.


----------



## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

3venflow said:


> He does. Rafael Morffi who has 29 years experience in live events and was previously Senior Director of Live Event Marketing at WWE as well as holding roles at the NY Mets and NY Cosmos.


You forgot to mention he was previously in charge of TNA live events which we all know…was an absolute disaster.


----------



## GarpTheFist (8 mo ago)

3venflow said:


> You skipped this one because you're so disingenuous. Rampage is a hard sell for a cold secondary show but at least present the good with the bad if you're capable of doing that. Nearly 3,800 people paying (a month out) for a one-hour show with a recent history of throwaway matches deserves as much praise as selling 1,000 tickets deserves doomsaying.
> 
> View attachment 134608



I mean, you also skip any bad numbers and only show us the good numbers as i pointed out in the ratings threads few days ago. It goes both ways.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

GarpTheFist said:


> I mean, you also skip any bad numbers and only show us the good numbers as i pointed out in the ratings threads few days ago. It goes both ways.


In the Rampage thread, I literally posted that they'd only moved 1,000 tickets for an upcoming show while also moving 3,800 for another upcoming show. That's called presenting both sides, something OP is incapable of.










OP has proven there's no middle ground for him, he's either all in or all out, and can't see in between. I've also posted in this very thread that numbers are down for the most part YoY with the caveat they're making more money in the big picture because they hiked ticket prices. The proof is in the pudding: $1m gates in 2021 = 0. $1m gates in 2022 = 4 (probably 5 come Full Gear which is at around 10,000 with PPV prices).

September was also AEW's third best-selling ticket month on record, so why doesn't OP and those like him acknowledge that fact? October could be _very_ low (last year averaged 4,470 in October, the lowest since they went back on the road), especially as Rampage is live this month, but until bell time we don't know. Philly was being presented as some kind of disaster but in the end moved 5,124 tickets (that would be the fifth highest TNA/IMPACT US attendance in history, btw, for a run-of-the-mill Dynamite) for a show headlined by Jericho vs. Bandido, so really that's not bad at all and walk-ups are important before judging attendances.


----------



## Jedah (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

As of right now for tomorrow.


----------



## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

Set up for less than 3K? Very mid.


----------



## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

Saintpat said:


> Set up for less than 3K? Very mid.


In the city where they drew over 12,000 for their very first Dynamite. Very sad downfall.


----------



## yeahbaby! (Jan 27, 2014)

If they get to WCW 92/93 level then it's really time to panic. Not there yet.


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

Why are they only set up for 3k? Tf?


----------



## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

RainmakerV2 said:


> Why are they only set up for 3k? Tf?


Slow ticket sales.


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

Mr316 said:


> Slow ticket sales.


I think part of the issue is you never know who you're gonna see. If I buy a ticket to RAW or SD, I know who's gonna be there and I know who I'm gonna see. With Dynamite it's a total crap shoot. If I'm a fan of let's say, Wardlow, Miro, and Darby and Britt Baker, I MIGHT see 1 of them, 2 of them, or NONE of them and what I might get instead is Wheeler Yuta, some NJPW guy, some ROH guy, and Willow Nightingale or some shit. It's a total crap shoot with this "rotating roster"


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## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Mr316 said:


> In the city where they drew over 12,000 for their very first Dynamite. Very sad downfall.


#growth


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Teemu™ said:


> Smark stuff is always huge in Canada and especially the UK. Look at all the big smark YouTubers from COOLTAHOLIC to WRESSSLELAYMIA and WOTCOLTZA, they're all from the UK and they all love them some AYEDOBBYA.
> 
> I generally blame the UK wrestling culture for ruining the world, but that's a different conversation.


Damn the connotation of "Smarks" has changed over the years. It used to be about knowledable wrestling fans that knew things beyond heels and faces. Guys that would disturb WWF shows in Montreal and Toronto or ECW fans. They were the cool kids. Now AEW fans who like spot fests are Smarks? God have mercy. The ECW fans would have crapped so much on those shows, TK would have gone home crying. 



Mr316 said:


> Everything about AEW is starting to have that TNA 2011 feel. Small crowds. No clear vision for the product. Poor marketing.


At least TNA back then had stars.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

RainmakerV2 said:


> The economy is also a factor. People are hurting and single white dudes who work mediocre to poor jobs (the majority of AEWs audience) aren't gonna have the disposable income around to make these shows, especially when they go to the same places over and over and there's no novelty to going to another Dynamite when you've been to 4 in the last 2 years.


Single white dudes who are poor are gonna spend money anyway if they like something believe me! lol I was poor during the Monday Night Wars and managed to find money.


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## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

Wrestling in general nowadays is a very niche audience, for both WWE and AEW if we're being honest. You're going to see fans go to the really big shows which will give the illusion that the business is in good shape, but in reality it's those same few fans traveling across the country to attend the 2-3 big shows a year each company puts on. Outside of that, no one is going to go to the smaller local shows


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## Scuba Steve (Sep 29, 2021)

Mr316 said:


> In the city where they drew over 12,000 for their very first Dynamite. Very sad downfall.


It was the very first ever TV event AEW did, which is why they had a bigger attendance number.

01/19/22 was the last DC show and they did 3595 total for the show. They were reportedly at 3010 as of earlier today.


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

The New York, Philadelphia, DC and Chicago metropolitan areas combined population is somewhere north of 42M. None of them is less than 6M.

I think a big part of the problem expressed here is it’s largely the same several thousand fans going to all the shows in each of these areas. One would hope in a range of 6-20M people in a given area that you’d have enough fans that you could fill those arenas — or come closer to filling them, and with larger configurations, not to mention maybe find bigger buildings rather than go to some smaller, out-of-the-way venue — without the exact same people going.

I think AEW has a loyal fan base, but this suggests it’s not a particularly large one. If half the fans who attend Show A in Chicago (or NY or Philly or DC) decide to skip the next one, you’d hope there would be fans who missed that show who would attend Show B to make up the difference. Instead, it’s a concentrated group so they can’t afford to go to all the shows in their areas and there aren’t others to take up the slack.

That makes sense in some smaller market like the Carolinas or Charleson, W. Va., but not os much in major metropolitan areas. It’s not a large enough group of dedicated fans.


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## Flairwhoo84123 (Jan 3, 2022)

AEa, and disaster what else is new 😆🤷‍♂️


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## DoctorWhosawhatsit (Aug 23, 2016)

RainmakerV2 said:


> Cut the 100 wrestlers you don't even use? That would help costs,no?


Bad idea, you'll have the Jacksons running around saying they were fired because of Punk.


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## sideon (Sep 18, 2008)

Wolf Mark said:


> Damn the connotation of "Smarks" has changed over the years. It used to be about knowledable wrestling fans that knew things beyond heels and faces. Guys that would disturb WWF shows in Montreal and Toronto or ECW fans. *They were the cool kids*. Now AEW fans who like spot fests are Smarks? God have mercy. The ECW fans would have crapped so much on those shows, TK would have gone home crying.
> 
> 
> 
> At least TNA back then had stars.


Smarks were never cool.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

sideon said:


> Smarks were never cool.


Smarks are wrestling fans that are knowledgeable. Marks are clapping seals. That's why IMO hardcore AEW fans to me are more like marks.


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## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

Mr316 said:


> Slow ticket sales.




On the bright side, they can jump it up to 3,100 by giving tickets to everyone in catering. Gotta earn that paycheck!


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## sideon (Sep 18, 2008)

Wolf Mark said:


> Smarks are wrestling fans that are knowledgeable. Marks are clapping seals. That's why IMO hardcore AEW fans to me more like marks.


No, Smarks think they're knowledgeable but you're just wannabe know-it-all people who ruin the experience for everyone. Ya'll get mad at fans who boo heels and cheer faces, and can't stand it when people don't know that something happened backstage between two wrestlers years ago. In short smarks hate when fans have fun just watching the show.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

sideon said:


> No, Smarks think they're knowledgeable but you're just wannabe know-it-all people who ruin the experience for everyone. Ya'll get mad at fans who boo heels and cheer faces, and can't stand it when people don't know that something happened backstage between two wrestlers years ago. In short smarks hate when fans have fun just watching the show.


Ah so you're one of those. Marks who hates smarks because they want people to be blind zombies and enjoy mediocrity. 

Real smarks have no problem booing the heels or cheering the face. But when it's earned. Notice the nWo was pretty popular in the 90s because smarks thought they were cool. And they were. But when Sting started kicking their asses, they cheered for Sting. Because they reacted in a genuine organic manner. Fans nowadays tend to over pop for garbage cause they were are desperate for good content.


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

The XL 2 said:


> Wrestling in general nowadays is a very niche audience, for both WWE and AEW if we're being honest. You're going to see fans go to the really big shows which will give the illusion that the business is in good shape, but in reality it's those same few fans traveling across the country to attend the 2-3 big shows a year each company puts on. Outside of that, no one is going to go to the smaller local shows


If using this logic the business was very niche for majority of the past 30 odd years outside the period 1997-summer 99 for WCW and 98-summer 2001 for WWE..

I mean looking at these numbers in smaller markets with likes of Piper, Flair, Savage on the shows

WWF @ Saginaw, MI - Wendler Arena - January 13, 1992 (2,500)

WWF @ LaCrosse, WI - LaCrosse Center - January 24, 1992 (3,000)

WWF @ Johnstown, PA - Cambria County War Memorial - March 2, 1992 (3,600)

WWF @ Sacramento, CA - Arco Arena - February 10, 1992 (5,400)

The last one is interesting because WWE ran a houseshow in Sacramento recently enough and drew ~8,000 or similar to what Hulk Hogn headlined houseshow later in 1992 drew in Sacramento

The fact is this is still a star power driven business even if we try to ignore or try say guys we don't like aren't draws. It's pretty obvious three guys ie Reigns, Lesnar and Punk are significant difference makers in terms of ticket sales.


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

I have no sympathy for them having low attendance. The product is absolutely generic and souless right now. It's been like this for a year. We know the cancer


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## Kenny's Ghost (Nov 23, 2020)

Wrong thread


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