# Triple H Absolutely Destroyed



## CNB (Oct 8, 2006)

In his latest mailbag column, Bill Simmons was asked about New York Knicks player Jeremy Lin, and if he was the NBA's equivalent of CM Punk this past summer. He responded with the following…

"Does this mean Carmelo is going to be Triple H — the egotistical, overrated star who couldn't handle that something good was happening without him, so he interjected himself into the storyline and ended up throwing a wet blanket on all the momentum?

I sure hope not."

source: 411mania.com


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## iMiZFiT (Apr 22, 2011)

So true. I despise Punk but even i cannot see the business sense in beating Punk when he was at the height of his popularity.

It killed his momentum, and the only reason i can think of is that Triple H done it to feed his ego.


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## BTNH (Nov 27, 2011)

I keep hearing how HHH squashed Punk's momentum a year or two ago but never understood. I had stopped watching back then. Can anyone fill me in on what happened?


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## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

:lmao

Well, it is true. I thought it would all lead to a Mania clash, but, low and behold..


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The fuck is Bill Simmons? The fuck is he so butthurt?


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## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

Lol seeing Carmelo with his arms crossed and no sign of excitement or happiness when Lin hit that game winner lol looks like HHH&#55357;&#56861;.


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## CNB (Oct 8, 2006)

BTNH said:


> I keep hearing how HHH squashed Punk's momentum a year or two ago but never understood. I had stopped watching back then. Can anyone fill me in on what happened?


Punk hit a level of popularity that was not seen since the Steve Austin run in the mid 90's. This was due to his promo where he 'shot' on the entire company.

After the MITB PPV, Punk defeated Cena and was at the height of his popularity. 

Then Triple H stepped in, faced Punk and beat him, whilst his best friend Kevin Nash powerbombed Punk randomly aswell.


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## Forit (Feb 16, 2012)

Maybe Bill simmons needs to realize the moment punk returned to wwe,within a week, all his momentum was gone. HHH was the one who kept it going by feuding with him. 

What an ignorant idiot.


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## BTNH (Nov 27, 2011)

CNB said:


> Punk hit a level of popularity that was not seen since the Steve Austin run in the mid 90's. This was due to his promo where he 'shot' on the entire company.
> 
> After the MITB PPV, Punk defeated Cena and was at the height of his popularity.
> 
> Then Triple H stepped in, faced Punk and beat him, whilst his best friend Kevin Nash powerbombed Punk randomly aswell.


Damn. Thankfully I wasn't watching to see all that. Triple H is an asshole none the less. Ruthless Aggression was great but it could have been even better if Triple H's ass wasn't all over the place.


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## corfend (Jan 17, 2012)

CNB said:


> *Punk hit a level of popularity that was not seen since the Steve Austin run in the mid 90's*. This was due to his promo where he 'shot' on the entire company.
> 
> After the MITB PPV, Punk defeated Cena and was at the height of his popularity.
> 
> Then Triple H stepped in, faced Punk and beat him, whilst his best friend Kevin Nash powerbombed Punk randomly aswell.


The Rock and several others say hi.


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## BrosOfDestruction (Feb 1, 2012)

that's a great analogy but it's probably going to turn out to be wronng in the long term because lin is sort of a fad right now. i don't think he's going to develop into a permanent all-star type of guy. he's benefited from the knicks and d'antoni system, weak defensive teams and he has the ball in his hand majority of the time. that's going to change when they incorporate melo and amare into the system. he might get voted in to the game because of his popularity though kind of like yao was. punk is well-established as a main eventer and he's definitely not going to take a nosedive to the mid-card. 

melo and haitch is legit though. you could add amare in there too. dude is both egotistical and overrated.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

CNB said:


> *Punk hit a level of popularity that was not seen since the Steve Austin run in the mid 90's.* This was due to his promo where he 'shot' on the entire company.
> 
> After the MITB PPV, Punk defeated Cena and was at the height of his popularity.
> 
> Then Triple H stepped in, faced Punk and beat him, whilst his best friend Kevin Nash powerbombed Punk randomly aswell.


:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao I'll give you the rest of it but come on at the bolded part.


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## Crowking (Oct 19, 2011)

iMiZFiT said:


> So true. I despise Punk but even i cannot see the business sense in beating Punk when he was at the height of his popularity.
> 
> It killed his momentum, and the only reason i can think of is that Triple H done it to feed his ego.


The worse part is he seemed to do it in order to put over a storyline between himself and Kevin Nash so that Nash could wrestle his last match ever.

What the hell was that?

The final burial of the Clique?


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## Green Light (Sep 17, 2011)

CNB said:


> *Punk hit a level of popularity that was not seen since the Steve Austin run in the mid 90's*. This was due to his promo where he 'shot' on the entire company.
> 
> After the MITB PPV, Punk defeated Cena and was at the height of his popularity.
> 
> Then Triple H stepped in, faced Punk and beat him, whilst his best friend Kevin Nash powerbombed Punk randomly aswell.


Let's not get carried away


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## Forit (Feb 16, 2012)

CNB said:


> Punk hit a level of popularity that was not seen since the Steve Austin run in the mid 90's. This was due to his promo where he 'shot' on the entire company.
> 
> After the MITB PPV, Punk defeated Cena and was at the height of his popularity.
> 
> Then Triple H stepped in, faced Punk and beat him, whilst his best friend Kevin Nash powerbombed Punk randomly aswell.


lol you just mad Jericho is not a big star like HHH is. People have been shitting on Cunt Jericho recently that he is dragging punk down with this feud which is true.

Punk has surpassed jericho long time ago.


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## bananakin94 (Feb 8, 2011)

BTNH said:


> I keep hearing how HHH squashed Punk's momentum a year or two ago but never understood. I had stopped watching back then. Can anyone fill me in on what happened?


It was this summer. 
Punk rose to superstardom all because of one promo. The infamous shoot promo.

He beat John Cena at Money in the Bank and stuck to his word when he told Vince he'd leave WWE with the championship.

Anyway, Punk comes back, and gets involved with a storyline with Triple H.
Great, everybody was thinking, "Triple H is gonna turn heel and put Punk over"
But instead, HHH stayed face, buried him on the mic every week on RAW and went over Punk at Night of Champions.

Ever since then, Punk's impact slowly diminished and now he's just a top clear-cut babyface who tells horrible jokes.
Although he is still very popular, he's nowhere near as popular as he should be. 
He was supposed to be the next Austin.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cunt Jericho? That's a new one.


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## THANOS (Jun 20, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> The fuck is Bill Simmons? The fuck is he so butthurt?


He's a prominent figure over at ESPN, you know the biggest sports channel in North America.


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## Roybhoy88 (Mar 14, 2011)

Very true!

He done the same in the Orton/Cena storyline leading upto WM24 as well, anytime something huge is happening without him he manages to squeeze in somewhere.

You aren't wanted or needed!


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## Heel (Feb 11, 2006)

He's right. Triple H took Punk from being the hottest property in wrestling to just another guy, just because he couldn't the fact there was a top star he hadn't beaten on PPV.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

dabossb said:


> He's a prominent figure over at ESPN, you know the biggest sports channel in North America.


Good for him. So...the fuck he so butthurt for?


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## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

http://twitter.com/#!/sportsguy33

He's really well-known. Got back into wrestling over the Summer because of the Punk angle but I'm sure he quit once Trips got his big nose in the situation. As for why he's so butthurt, why wouldn't he be?


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## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

Jeremy Lin was handed nothing and rose to the top quickly. Not an apt comparison although the Carmelo one might be


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## Heel (Feb 11, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Good for him. So...the fuck he so butthurt for?


Butthurt? Pot. Kettle. Black.

Every time someone makes a negative comment about Trips you feel the need to hijack the entire thread.


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## CNB (Oct 8, 2006)

He's right IMO.

Triple H should have stayed the fuck away from that angle. If he had of, CM Punk may have progressed to a level that WWE need someone to step up to.


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## THANOS (Jun 20, 2006)

Heel said:


> He's right. Triple H took Punk from being the hottest property in wrestling to just another guy, just because he couldn't the fact there was a top star he hadn't beaten on PPV.


Yep and after the news that HHH is facing Taker at mania instead of putting over Punk, it became probably the most obvious burial he's ever done. Not even Starbuck or Headliner can deny that.


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## Camoron (Aug 24, 2004)

Punk's momentum was already killed by the time he faced Triple H. They severely damaged it by shotgunning his return a week after he left and then finished it off by having him drop the title to Alberto Del Rio. His loss to Triple H really didn't matter, it was tainted FFS. Bunch of whiny babies.


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## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

He's right. there was and is no excuse as to what HHH did to Punk. Looking back at it now its just mindboggling why HHH even appeared to begin with. Cena V Punk could of gone on for months and months, but no HHH jumped on in and extinguished Punks heat by not turning heel and making Punk look like a paraniod fool. And then he beat him, for no fucking reason. Please HHH marks, please tell one good reason why Tripel H needed to beat Punk.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Heel said:


> Butthurt? Pot. Kettle. Black.
> 
> Every time someone makes a negative comment about Trips you feel the need to hijack the entire thread.


Hijack the thread? Now who's being butthurt lol? I made like 3 posts, 1 one of them completely unrelated to the subject at hand. Fucking chill out.


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## corfend (Jan 17, 2012)

CNB said:


> He's right IMO.
> 
> Triple H should have stayed the fuck away from that angle. If he had of, CM Punk may have progressed to a level that WWE need someone to step up to.


You're right, HHH should've stayed away from the angle (unless he contributed something positive to it, which he really didn't).

On the other hand, you're still 100% wrong about Punk reaching " a level of popularity that was not seen since the Steve Austin run in the mid 90's". No way around it, that's a total falsehood.


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## DualShock (Jan 9, 2012)

CNB said:


> *Punk hit a level of popularity that was not seen since the Steve Austin run in the mid 90's.* This was due to his promo where he 'shot' on the entire company.
> 
> After the MITB PPV, Punk defeated Cena and was at the height of his popularity.
> 
> Then Triple H stepped in, faced Punk and beat him, whilst his best friend Kevin Nash powerbombed Punk randomly aswell.


I`m with you on this one.
People laugh at this because there were plenty other superstars after Stone Cold like Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle etc. but yet CM Punk got mentioned on ESPN like we have the wrestling boom again.
Of course it sounds silly for some people that CM Punk was the hottest superstar since Stone Cold because they blew this storyline but if they did it right maybe wrestling would be popular again like during the Attitude Era.
Like it or not CM Punk during the summer 2011 was the hottest superstar since Stone Cold


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## Heel (Feb 11, 2006)

There was no logical reason for Triple H to beat Punk, none whatsoever. I bet Trips is one of these guys that walks around backstage saying "nobody is stepping up to take mine and Cena's spots" when really guys like Punk did step up but were successfully derailed by 'The Game'. Nice work.


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## corfend (Jan 17, 2012)

DualShock said:


> I`m with you on this one.
> People laugh at this because there were plenty other superstars after Stone Cold like Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle etc. but yet CM Punk got mentioned on ESPN like we have the wrestling boom again.
> Of course it sounds silly for some people that CM Punk was the hottest superstar since Stone Cold because they blew this storyline but if they did it right maybe wrestling would be popular again like during the Attitude Era.
> Like it or not CM Punk during the summer 2011 was the hottest superstar since Stone Cold


No, he really wasn't. Are you really trying to tell me that CM Punk during the summer of 2011 was "hotter" than The Rock in 1999 or 2000?


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## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Plan was most likely for Triple H to help Punk beat the shit out of Kevin Nash but Nash couldn't go at the time so they went in another direction. *I sometimes wonder if people feel Triple hates everyone in the company that is on a Main Event level and is not his friend Laughable.*


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## P.Smith (Jan 24, 2010)

RAW definitely got a lot less interesting when HHH entered the picture.


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## Bullydully (Jun 28, 2011)

Who is this douche? I gotta admit though he did make me lol and I love Triple H.


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## CNB (Oct 8, 2006)

corfend said:


> You're right, HHH should've stayed away from the angle (unless he contributed something positive to it, which he really didn't).
> 
> On the other hand, you're still 100% wrong about Punk reaching " a level of popularity that was not seen since the Steve Austin run in the mid 90's". No way around it, that's a total falsehood.


Fair enough, I'll retract that comment then.

I still think the momentum he built for himself was something to behold.

The reason it never elevated him into a crossover mainstream star was because Triple H and the stupid "who texted Kevin Nash' angle took centre stage and turned off the angel.


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HHH beating Punk should've never happened, and if it had to happen (which it did), then they should be fighting at Mania where Punk beats HHH. But the whole shit with Nash, the fact Punk was the true antagonist in the whole situation with HHH (even if he wasn't the "heel") and the fact he didn't keep the WWE Title from MITB onwards all hurt Punk's momentum and credibility.


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Lol.. so true.


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## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I don't know who Carmelo is but that sounds funny/accurate


dabossb said:


> He's a prominent figure over at ESPN, you know the biggest sports channel in North America.


Ah, wow.


Starbuck said:


> Good for him. So...the fuck he so butthurt for?


Because Triple H stole CM Punk's thunder, in a big way. I know you're a massive HHH fan but honestly it was pretty annoying.


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## BrosOfDestruction (Feb 1, 2012)

DualShock said:


> I`m with you on this one.
> People laugh at this because there were plenty other superstars after Stone Cold like Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle etc. but yet CM Punk got mentioned on ESPN like we have the wrestling boom again.
> Of course it sounds silly for some people that CM Punk was the hottest superstar since Stone Cold because they blew this storyline but if they did it right maybe wrestling would be popular again like during the Attitude Era.
> Like it or not CM Punk during the summer 2011 was the hottest superstar since Stone Cold


he's not close to being as popular as the rock was.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

There was no logical reason for Punk to beat HHH. HHH came back and put that fucker in his place. Then he walked around backstage afterwards and told everybody not to bother stepping up their *GAME* because he is the *GAME* and that he would bury anybody who tried to out-*GAME* the *GAME*. 



























































































*GAME*


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> There was no logical reason for Punk to beat HHH. HHH came back and put that fucker in his place. Then he walked around backstage afterwards and told everybody not to bother stepping up their *GAME* because he is the *GAME* and that he would bury anybody who tried to out-*GAME* the *GAME*.
> 
> 
> *GAME*




... did JDMan hack your account, Starbuck?


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## Fatcat (Aug 26, 2011)

I somewhat agree. It seems like Punk hasn't been trying since that feud with Triple H. Before he was edgy and wasn't afraid to put anybody over. Now he is corny on the mic and tries to bury his opponents (Basically he is a smaller version of Triple H).


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## Green Light (Sep 17, 2011)

Starbuck just embraced the hate


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## Crowking (Oct 19, 2011)

CNB said:


> He's right IMO.
> 
> Triple H should have stayed the fuck away from that angle. If he had of, CM Punk may have progressed to a level that WWE need someone to step up to.


I don't understand how anyone can not see this.

Go back and watch the crowd at MITB, or any segment involving Punk leading up to that moment. People are all over him. He was getting covered in regular news outlets, he was getting swarmed at Comicon like he was some kind of folk hero.

People who I knew hadn't watched wrestling for at least a decade were tuning in just to see CM Punk.


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## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

CNB said:


> *Punk hit a level of popularity that was not seen since the Steve Austin run in the mid 90's. *This was due to his promo where he 'shot' on the entire company.
> 
> After the MITB PPV, Punk defeated Cena and was at the height of his popularity.
> 
> Then Triple H stepped in, faced Punk and beat him, whilst his best friend Kevin Nash powerbombed Punk randomly aswell.


:shocked:

:lmao

And about this subject, HHH made a mistake because he should have let him feud with Del Rio in an even more irrelevant feud. Don't see the problem at all with this result after he gave Punk a lot of mic time against him. More than usual for HHH opponent.


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## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

Disappointment in a squelched storyline =/= butthurt.


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## Carcass (Mar 12, 2010)

HHH obviously went over Punk cause he's turning heel at WM and Punk's gonna get his win back in some huge epic feud with Corporate HHH and Punk. Hopefully HHH forms a stable and one RAW where they're in the ring, Punk comes down in a pepsi truck and hoses everyone down with Pepsi.


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## Bob the Jobber (Mar 20, 2011)

Fatcat said:


> I somewhat agree. It seems like Punk hasn't been trying since that feud with Triple H. Before he was edgy and wasn't afraid to put anybody over. Now he is corny on the mic and tries to bury his opponents (Basically he is a smaller version of Triple H).


Maybe he's putting all his energy into backstage politics since seeing how well it's worked for Trips.


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## BrosOfDestruction (Feb 1, 2012)

Carcass said:


> HHH obviously went over Punk cause he's turning heel at WM and Punk's gonna get his win back in some huge epic feud with Corporate HHH and Punk. Hopefully HHH forms a stable and one RAW where they're in the ring, Punk comes down in a pepsi truck and hoses everyone down with Pepsi.


lol'd.


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## DualShock (Jan 9, 2012)

corfend said:


> No, he really wasn't. Are you really trying to tell me that CM Punk during the summer of 2011 was "hotter" than The Rock in 1999 or 2000?





BrosOfDestruction said:


> he's not close to being as popular as the rock was.


Of course not, that`s why I wrote he was the hottest star since Stone Cold, the hottest superstar in the last 10 years or "like we have the wrestlingboom again". I don`t count The Rock because that was 1998-2000. When I say "since Stone Cold era" then I mean since Stone Cold, since The Rock, since nWo, since Attitude Era or since Monday Night Wars.


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## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> ..


Starbuck, what are you doing?


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## Dolph'sZiggler (Aug 4, 2011)

lol perfect analogy


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Obis said:


> ... did JDMan hack your account, Starbuck?


I am JDMan. 



Green Light said:


> Starbuck just embraced the hate


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## Camoron (Aug 24, 2004)

Rock316AE said:


> :shocked:
> 
> :lmao
> 
> And about this subject, HHH made a mistake because he should have let him feud with Del Rio in an even more irrelevant feud. Don't see the problem at all with this result after he gave Punk a lot of mic time against him. More than usual for HHH opponent.


Yeah, honestly. That's what the alternative would have been. A feud with Alberto Del Rio, oh boy. Getting buried by Triple H will do more for your career than beating ADR. And Punk wasn't even buried, he suffered a tainted defeat and had tons of mic time. Was it a bad angle? Sure. I shudder to think of the alternative involving ADR and Punk though. I've said all along that he should have kept feuding with Cena though.


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## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Punk's shoot was the most trended video on Youtube for a few days. He was getting covered by major news outlets. Was a guest appreance on ESPN, was a guest appreance on Jimmy Kimmel. His segment with Vince gained over one milllion viewers, the MITB buyrates one of the few buyrates that increased form last year, His BITW shirt in Augest was the best selling shirt in years according to Jim Ross.
reason.

All of it for nothing. Makes me sad of what could of been if HHH knew what was good for buisness and turned heel.


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## sonicslash (Sep 9, 2011)

He's absolutely right. HHH is a useless pathetic excuse for a boss and a human being in general. the only redeeming quality is his taste in women...and just look what that does for him. 

In his head did he really think "you know what would really help CM Punks momentum right now...If he lost to me. That's perfect." Punk is right...If you dislike Vince right now..Dig in for the long haul, because it ain't getting better.

Its like someone grew up a cameraman...knocked up Oprah and because if his unyielding love for himself and no one else, convince her to make a 24-hour show about himself.


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## Ekaf (Jun 28, 2011)

Triple H needs to learn to stay away from the ring. His feud with Taker better be the last one we see him involved in. Knowing his ego, that most likely won't happen.

He's a genuine asshole.


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## corfend (Jan 17, 2012)

DualShock said:


> Of course not, that`s why I wrote he was the hottest star since Stone Cold, the hottest superstar in the last 10 years or "like we have the wrestlingboom again". I don`t count The Rock because that was 1998-2000. When I say "since Stone Cold era" then I mean since Stone Cold, since The Rock, since nWo, since Attitude Era or since Monday Night Wars.


Austin may have been the face of the Attitude Era (with Rocky coming at a very close second place), but CNB said that Punk was the hottest superstar since Stone Cold himself, not that he was the hottest superstar since the "Stone Cold era". So you and him weren't actually agreeing on that point.

Also, CM Punk this past summer wasn't the hottest superstar since the end of the Attitude Era either. Lesnar, Cena and Batista were all "hotter" than him at their heights, regardless of Internet fans were drooling over Punk and big news stations wanting to interview him.


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## ultimatekrang (Mar 21, 2009)

at the time we were all just waiting to see how it panned out right? now looking back on it .. it kind of sucked and made no sense. nash? trips winning? it went on too long and lead to what? john larenitus?

super.


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## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Simmons needs to get Punk on his podcast again.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Simmons needs to get HHH on his podcast. Wouldn't that be fun?


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## Forit (Feb 16, 2012)

Rock316AE said:


> :shocked:
> 
> :lmao
> 
> And about this subject, *HHH made a mistake because he should have let him feud with Del Rio in an even more irrelevant feud.* Don't see the problem at all with this result after he gave Punk a lot of mic time against him. More than usual for HHH opponent.


This. HHH should have let the fucker fall back to the mid card instead of giving him a fucking main event feud. 

I am sure Bill simmons would have enjoyed Del Rio vs Punk 6 months program a lot more.


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## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

I'd love to hear that. Simmons would probably bury the fuck outta Trips.


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## Forit (Feb 16, 2012)

Then again, its all good if you think about it. Jericho vs punk is essentially nothing more than a mid card feud pulling in 1999 nitro ratings. 


Bill simons and the other idiots can cry all they want, HHH STILL WINS.

ITS ALL ABOUT THE GAME BITCHES!!


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## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Found JDMan.


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## Amsterdam (Mar 8, 2010)

Simmons has a point.

I'm no fan of CM Punk, but words cannot describe my hate for Triple H, and do I believe CM Punk would bigger than he currently is had Triple H not shoved his big nose into last summer's main storyline? Absolutely. 

Triple H's involvement in the Summer of Punk led to 1 thing, and 1 thing only: the absolute burial of every Superstar, Diva, manager, authority figure, commentator, and referee in the entire company (aka the walk-out). This was Hunter Hearst Helmsley's finest hour, and he didn't even need his ring-gear to do it.


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## God Movement (Aug 3, 2011)

Meh, yes HHH beating Punk at NoC didn't help, but Punk still came out of the match looking like a threat. What actually hurt Punk more was the fact that he made quite a few claims about kicking people's asses, but never managed to do it. It would have all been fine if he just beat Nash at a PPV.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> I'd love to hear that. Simmons would probably bury the fuck outta Trips.


Lol. Nobody can bury the master. This jobber would be 6 feet under by the end of that podcast. Fear the shovel.


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## Forit (Feb 16, 2012)

Amsterdam said:


> Lin has a point.
> 
> I'm no fan of CM Punk, but words cannot describe my hate for Triple H, and do I believe CM Punk would bigger than he currently is had Triple H not shoved his big nose into last summer's main storyline? Absolutely.


I know defending hhh in this place is pointless but this post is ridiculously ignorant. 

"Bigger than he currently is" ?? How so? Forget about ratings, take HHH out of the storyline.. all you have John cena. Vince wont have punk to go over cena clean. That will NEVER happen. 

So how can you say without hhh, punk would have been bigger than he currently is?

You cant have cena vs punk every PPV with a screwjob finish. Cena needs strong booking to face the rock at mania. 

Your post is simply too ignorant.


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## DualShock (Jan 9, 2012)

sonicslash said:


> He's absolutely right. HHH is a useless pathetic excuse for a boss and a human being in general.* the only redeeming quality is his taste in women*...and just look what that does for him.


Actually not, he actually likes masculine women who look like Jay Leno









He married that one hot chick only because she was a McMahon so he can be what he is today.



corfend said:


> Austin may have been the face of the Attitude Era (with Rocky coming at a very close second place), but CNB said that Punk was the hottest superstar since Stone Cold himself, not that he was the hottest superstar since the "Stone Cold era". So you and him weren't actually agreeing on that point.
> 
> Also, CM Punk this past summer wasn't the hottest superstar since the end of the Attitude Era either. Lesnar, Cena and Batista were all "hotter" than him at their heights, regardless of Internet fans were drooling over Punk and big news stations wanting to interview him.


Then, my bad because I misunderstood that. The right one would be "Punk was the hottest superstar since the Attitude Era ended, since WWF became WWE"
And IMO he was hotter than Cena, Batista or Lesnar.
Of course Cena is the bigger star and the face of the company and Batista & Lesnar were big too but nobody made so much impact like CM Punk in & outside of the wrestling world. Hottest topic on YouTube & Twitter with more than a million views, guest on ESPN & Kimmel, former stars commenting that they haven`t witnessed such a hot promo in years and that they wish to be CM Punk (quote: Mick Foley)
Probably CM Punk will never be such a top star in the company like John Cena but neither Cena, Batista or Lesnar shook the wrestlingworld with their promos and that storyline like CM Punk did


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## superfudge (May 18, 2011)

The HHH/Punk storyline is so overblown. Sure HHH shouldn't have gone over...but it did not kill the momentum for Punk. Look at him now...WWE champ and getting one of the biggest pops on the roster.


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## Carcass (Mar 12, 2010)

The HHH feud did kill a lot of his momentum, be it on purpose or not. But so is feuding with guys like Miz, ADR, and Jericho (if this was the Jericho from 10 years ago it would be a different story). It's like if Rock or Austin were feuding with the Godfather or Gillberg over the wwe title instead going against each other, HHH, Angle, etc.


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Everyone who says "Triple H HELPED CM Punk in that storyline" is either an idiot, die-hard and blind HHH mark or CM Punk hater. Triple H did NOTHING for CM Punk in that storyline, he should have stayed out of it. He killed his momentum.. end of the story. 

If he really wanted to help, he should have put Punk fuckin OVER!.. Beating one of the hottest superstars doesnt mean "helping" in my book.


----------



## Forit (Feb 16, 2012)

DualShock said:


> Probably CM Punk will never be such a top star in the company like John Cena *but neither Cena, Batista or Lesnar shook the wrestlingworld with their promos and that storyline like CM Punk did*


What promos? The corny jokes or that one shoot promo which took off because of the clean cut PG ERA WWE has been shoving down on the fans? Five years ago the shoot would have meant nothing. Hell carlito did a better shoot on cena and the company in 2007.


----------



## NJ88 (Jan 27, 2009)

I like Triple H a lot but the guy has a point.

CM Punk was pretty much on fire in the summer. He reached levels of popularity we hadnt seen in years, the crowds were going completely mental for him every night. He became the WWE Champion and was even more over, then suddenly dropped the title...started feuding with Nash/Trips out of the blue and lost to Triple H on PPV at which the feud just...ended once Punk had lost all the momentum he had just a month ago.


----------



## Forit (Feb 16, 2012)

zkorejo said:


> Everyone who says "Triple H HELPED CM Punk in that storyline" is either an idiot, die-hard and blind HHH mark or CM Punk hater. Triple H did NOTHING for CM Punk in that storyline, he should have stayed out of it. He killed his momentum.. end of the story.


Yeah HHH did NOTHING except give CM Punk main event credibility. fpalm

Cry more marks. HHH still wins. He always does


----------



## Forit (Feb 16, 2012)

NJ88 said:


> I like Triple H a lot but the guy has a point.
> 
> CM Punk was pretty much on fire in the summer. He reached levels of popularity we hadnt seen in years, the crowds were going completely mental for him every night.


Yet didnt draw shit for ratings. Merchandise sales were down 7% from last year. A mere 20,000 extra buys on MITB. 

Hottest my ass. IWC wet dream clearly.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Forit said:


> Yeah HHH did NOTHING except *give CM Punk main event credibility*. fpalm
> 
> Cry more marks. HHH still wins. He always does


Lol.. yea.. you better facepalm at your statement. I am not sure which category do you fall in, a blind HHH mark or an idiot.


----------



## max314 (Jan 10, 2012)

Triple H Vs. CM Punk at _Night of Champions_ was essentially Levesque putting Brooks "in his place".

Punk wasn't made to look weak. Triple H was merely made to look invincible. He beat the shit outta Kevin Nash then went back into the ring and pinned Punk.

It was all about Levesque making sure Brooks didn't go over him.


----------



## urca (Aug 4, 2011)

Anyone has that video when CM Punk mocks Triple H with Samoa Joe or Colt Cabana where he says 'i want to wear the WWE Title when i go to church' or something like that?


----------



## NJ88 (Jan 27, 2009)

Forit said:


> Yet didnt draw shit for ratings. Merchandise sales were down 7% from last year. A mere 20,000 extra buys on MITB.
> 
> Hottest my ass. IWC wet dream clearly.


Nobody 'draws shit for ratings' tbh, and Punks got the top selling shirt on wwe.shop so he does sell merchandise. How you can blame ratings and merchanidse sales on one single wrestler is ridiculous thinking. He was hottest because the crowds were going nuts for him, something we hadnt seen in years. That's it, there's not really any arguing with that because its true.

His momentum was killed once he dropped the title and was put in a meaningless feud with Trips/Nash which resulting in...nothing.


----------



## Dolph'sZiggler (Aug 4, 2011)

urca said:


> Anyone has that video when CM Punk mocks Triple H with Samoa Joe or Colt Cabana where he says 'i want to wear the WWE Title when i go to church' or something like that?


Can't find it, but hopefully someone can. That shit was hilarious


----------



## corfend (Jan 17, 2012)

urca said:


> Anyone has that video when CM Punk mocks Triple H with Samoa Joe or Colt Cabana where he says 'i want to wear the WWE Title when i go to church' or something like that?


dabossb's posted it several times, so he could probably dig it up for you.


----------



## The_Jiz (Jun 1, 2006)

The hhh-punk-nash angle made no sense. Punk from openingly bashing the company to finding out who texted Nash to "stick him" ... before he kicks some ass ofc [which he never did]. They took such a non issue, which hardly resolved, and in the end made Punk out to be paranoid and a whiner.


----------



## itssoeasy23 (Jul 19, 2011)

Yeah I know right? Triple H really ruined Punk momentum, now he's WWE Champion. Poor Punk.


----------



## HankHill_85 (Aug 31, 2011)

I've never been someone who camped completely on one side of the infamous "HHH buries his threats" debate that has raged on for well over a decade, and I'm not about to start now.

But I do agree with Simmons' assessment of Hunter in the post-summer Punk angle. Not necessarily the name-calling aspect of it, but the true meat of it, anyway. In the end, there was really no point of that incredibly brief angle between Punk and HHH, and it's really simple why:

What I look for in a feud - doesn't matter how big or small - is who benefits in the end, because someone has to. In this case, it was the long-established veteran, HHH against someone who'd been teased with the proverbial WWE 'ball' before, but had only now just broken the glass ceiling, CM Punk. The problem, or the X factor in this angle was Kevin Nash, whose health status at the time was reportedly sketchy, but nobody really knew the reason his match with Punk was scrapped.

In the match, HHH won after a clusterfuck finish with Nash and what seemed like 69 Pedigrees. People cried foul because Punk was on such a good wave of momentum and HHH only puts on his trunks a few times a year these days, but then talk of a possible Mania match started to surface.

However, with the events of the last few Raws having taken place, Punk and HHH have gone their separate ways and have different opponents for Mania 28.

My take is that unless there's some big plan for HHH to go corporate heel after Mania in some epic angle (which actually makes more sense than turning before), then the Punk/HHH angle last fall was a colossal misfire that nobody benefited from. Punk's momentum took a sharp low blow and things just moved over to a HHH/Nash feud that, frankly, nobody even asked for.

So, with things having turned out the way they did, then yes, HHH didn't need to be inserted into the picture. I was fine with him being the ref at Summerslam, cuz that PPV needed all the extra star power it could get, but the little "tiff" between Hunter and Punk was pointless.

I'll maintain my original position though, and say that if there's no rematch in the works over the next few months, then yeah, ego won out over logical business.


----------



## zxLegionxz (Nov 23, 2011)

wow poor punk his momentum was killed by defending his title in 3 ppvs and becoming champion in the MSG in the match before the rock returned in the ring after 7 years,wow triple h did bury him


----------



## Evolution (Sep 23, 2005)

HHH hate threads were so 5 years ago.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It's all about Miz hate these days. Even Punk hate isn't cool anymore lol.


----------



## urca (Aug 4, 2011)

I found the video.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9twzv_punk_sport


----------



## 1TheRockHHH (Jul 24, 2011)

lol if it wasn't for HHH who would Punk be feuding after MITB and SS? Yeah exactly no one worthy!


----------



## corfend (Jan 17, 2012)

HHH certainly destroyed some of Punk's momentum, but TBH even feuding with/losing to the Game is better than going over the Miz. It's all about star-power.


----------



## urca (Aug 4, 2011)

corfend said:


> HHH certainly destroyed some of Punk's momentum, but TBH even feuding with/losing to the Game is better than going over the Miz. It's all about star-power.


This is where the WWE has shot themselves,they didn't build as many superstars as possible,for an instance,rising stars never go over main-eventers cleanly,EVER,even if they're at the hottest time of their careers,look @ CM Punk,he never beat John Cena cleanly,EVER,at SummerSlam,Cena's leg was under the rope For God's sake :/.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

1TheRockHHH said:


> lol if it wasn't for HHH who would Punk be feuding after MITB and SS? Yeah exactly no one worthy!


Yea.. a feud with Triple H where his character was turned from an anti-hero to a whiner, a feud which he lost. A feud after which Triple H said "I can go to war with you again" and he responded "No, I think someone is playing us" was really necessary. CM Punk vs ADR vs Cena would have been better than that feud IMO. If it wouldnt have done any good atleast it wouldnt have done any harm. 

Plus after that feud, hasnt CM Punk been defending his title against random midcard heels who are doing no good to his character anyways? 

It was just a storyline of Triple H beating some sense into a bully/whiner/complainer CM Punk. I really fail to see how it did any good for CM Punk.


----------



## corfend (Jan 17, 2012)

urca said:


> This is where the WWE has shot themselves,they didn't build as many superstars as possible,for an instance,rising stars never go over main-eventers cleanly,EVER,even if they're at the hottest time of their careers,look @ CM Punk,he never beat John Cena cleanly,EVER,at SummerSlam,Cena's leg was under the rope For God's sake :/.


I don't think going over Cena 100% cleanly would've made as much of a monumental difference as many fans say. Rather than using SummerSlam as an example, I'll go with MITB. Sure, Punk's victory was due to a distraction, but it was much more memorable than if he'd simply hit the GTS on Cena and pinned him.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I dislike H, that's no secret. I blame him for distracting and derailing Punk's character for awhile unnecessarily. However I don't blame him for Punk's "waning" popularity.

For starters, I don't believe Punk's popularity is "waning". He's actually getting more over. The change in his character from edgy to fan friendly is obviously a VKM decision. He just doesn't fit the mold of what Vince wants in a face. 

Finally, The whole HHH/Punk NOC fiasco was a way of distracting Punk so Cena/Del Rio could continue. Punk gained nothing from the altercation, it was just a distraction. HHH owes Punk a win, maybe he will collect at next years 'Mania.


----------



## Trumpet Thief (Dec 27, 2005)

Do you guys remember the promo right before the 'Night of Champions' match between Triple H and CM Punk?

I'm guessing you don't, and I can't say I blame you. As a guy who paid for the pay per view, it's etched into my memory pretty well. The promo consists of various CM Punk promos, trying to get Triple H 'angry'. CM Punk would continue to provoke Triple H, the 'calm, collected CEO', consistently making corny jokes about Stephanie McMahon or how Triple H is a woman. Eventually, as the promo breaks into 'epic guitar music', Triple H gets mad at promises to kick CM Punk's ass. The promo, in a nutshell, made Punk the annoying little kid provoking the ass kicking machine, Triple H. *And in the end, Triple H wins, and CM Punk admits that he was wrong about Triple H.*

What better way to put over a new main eventer, huh?

I don't know who wrote that storyline, or what their intention was, but it *literally SAPPED the essence out of Punk's storyline.* Despite Punk's original promo being just that, a 'shoot' promo, the appeal of the Summer of Punk wasn't seeing 'Hey, how's Punk going to break the fourth wall today', but 'Hey, I wonder how they're going to progress this awesome storyline'. The *appealing* thing about the storyline was that, for once, we weren't being treated as idiots. CM Punk was no cookie cutter 'I hate every heel and love every face' character, and Cena, as we already know, has quite a conflicting and interesting character. The power struggle, and the truth behind the storyline, and the amazing payoff (Money in the Bank) MADE US fans again. We didn't need Punk to say "Oh hey Paul Levesque is your real name and wrestling is fake". We needed Punk, THE CHARACTER, to act true to his character.

This could be anything from manipulating the 'hotshots' in the WWE into making things the way he wants them, or it could be him still acting slightly heel-ish, rubbing it in the rest of the WWE's face that he actually PULLED OFF what he said he was going to do. His 'return' could have been something forced by Cena, a man OBSESSED with a rematch, creating an 'Austin vs. Rock' series. 

INSTEAD, he comes back, gets powerbombed by Kevin Nash, and the title is hotshotted to Del Rio (the original planned winner), and then he loses to Triple H, after acting like a spoiled brat, cracking horrible jokes and being proven wrong by 'The Game'.

It's *astounding* how far they dropped the ball with this one. The only way I can envision the board room discussion is Vince saying: "Okay gentlemen, we have a lot of buzz and we've received positive feedback from this angle. How can we fuck this up?". Enter The Game and Mr. Crippled Knees, and if you look at it from a bigger picture, CM Punk was literally a 'third wheel' in the Triple H vs. Kevin Nash battle! Now that's how you keep fresh talent aboard. Kevin Nash vs. Punk may have been a trainwreck, but considering the time invested in it, they should of at *least given Punk his revenge, considering Kevin Nash cost him out of the title, and out of countless matches!*

The CM Punk that we have now is watered down Kool Aid. I wouldn't put the blame entirely on Punk, considering he might be trying to salvage it with a Jericho feud, but the intrigue of something 'changing up the system' is gone. Punk is a less funny Cena, at the moment. He's snarky and sarcastic, and not serious or determined or 'loose cannon-esque' like his Money in the Bank/Summerslam character. The blame really falls in a lot of places, but I blame Triple H for this reason and this reason alone: he was *the original kick in the balls to the Punk storyline.* Everything that followed was definitely worse, but he sapped the momentum out, and then some.

Let's hope they can salvage it, but at this point in time, CM Punk is nothing more than Mr. "Best in the world" for some reason. His jokes are lame, and he's no Rocky when it comes to making catchphrases enjoyable. His matches are still fun, but the fact is that his first 'burst into the limelight' was, thinking logically, HIS idea, and it succeeded. Everything afterwards was so watered down (once it had attention), that it became some lame, uninteresting, generic monster. God. fucking. damnit.


----------



## corfend (Jan 17, 2012)

jonoaries said:


> I dislike H, that's no secret. I blame him for distracting and derailing Punk's character for awhile unnecessarily. However I don't blame him for Punk's "waning" popularity.
> 
> For starters, I don't believe Punk's popularity is "waning". He's actually getting more over. The change in his character from edgy to fan friendly is obviously a VKM decision. He just doesn't fit the mold of what Vince wants in a face.
> 
> Finally, The whole HHH/Punk NOC fiasco was a way of distracting Punk so Cena/Del Rio could continue. Punk gained nothing from the altercation, it was just a distraction. *HHH owes Punk a win*, maybe he will collect at next years 'Mania.


What? Wrestlers aren't obligated to put each other over.


----------



## Trumpet Thief (Dec 27, 2005)

corfend said:


> What? Wrestlers aren't obligated to put each other over.


You are absolutely right. But a former main-eventer who now has some authority in the WWE behind the scenes shouldn't come back and dethrone the 'next big thing', just for the hell of it, and then return to a 'non-wrestling position'. It's just nonsensical. 

For a guy who won his first Wrestlemania main event nearly 12 years ago, I'm sure there is some sort of unwritten rule that former main eventers shouldn't shut down new talent, and should instead try to put them over. And if they can't, they shouldn't FEUD WITH THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Trumpet Thief said:


> Do you guys remember the promo right before the 'Night of Champions' match between Triple H and CM Punk?
> 
> I'm guessing you don't, and I can't say I blame you. As a guy who paid for the pay per view, it's etched into my memory pretty well. The promo consists of various CM Punk promos, trying to get Triple H 'angry'. CM Punk would continue to provoke Triple H, the 'calm, collected CEO', consistently making corny jokes about Stephanie McMahon or how Triple H is a woman. Eventually, as the promo breaks into 'epic guitar music', Triple H gets mad at promises to kick CM Punk's ass. The promo, in a nutshell, made Punk the annoying little kid provoking the ass kicking machine, Triple H. *And in the end, Triple H wins, and CM Punk admits that he was wrong about Triple H.*
> 
> ...


I agree with every word. (Y)


----------



## glenwo2 (May 9, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> I don't know who Carmelo is but that sounds funny/accurate


Still can't believe this guy doesn't know who Carmelo Anthony is. :no:


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

corfend said:


> What? Wrestlers aren't obligated to put each other over.


HHH has an obligation to put CM Punk over.
He's an aging star and its his job to make each guy look better. He OWES Punk that because he went out of his way to knock the steam out of his original push. Besides it common practice for main eventers to trade wins.


----------



## TheKorean (Dec 5, 2007)

When the fuck did HHH squash Punk?


----------



## jj87uk (Apr 8, 2011)

CNB said:


> Punk hit a level of popularity that was not seen since the Steve Austin run in the mid 90's. This was due to his promo where he 'shot' on the entire company.





Amsterdam said:


> words cannot describe my hate for Triple H, and do I believe CM Punk would bigger than he currently is had Triple H not shoved his big nose into last summer's main storyline? Absolutely.


These two quotes show the problem: over-rating of Punk and blind hate for Triple H. Punk is good and vaguely interesting but he is nowhere near the level of Stone Cold or even Triple H in their prime. You do Punk no favours by acting like his shit don't stink when he clearly has dropped the ball from this summer.



Camoron said:


> Punk's momentum was already killed by the time he faced Triple H. They severely damaged it by shotgunning his return a week after he left and then finished it off by having him drop the title to Alberto Del Rio.


This is why he's dropped the ball. He came back way to early. They shoudve kept him off TV for a month and then brought him back and made a bigger issue of who the real champ was. They most definitely shouldn'tve had Mysterio win the title then drop it minutes later to Cena - who gives a fuck who's the champ if its hot-shotted that bad!

Punk needed someone big to feud with and as they decided Del Rio needed the title and fued with Cena then the next best thing is Triple H. Who else is he gonna feud with? The Miz??


----------



## MrWalsh (Feb 21, 2010)

HHH really is a dick though I'll never forget how shitted on Ryder when someone asked why he wasn't at Wrestlemania. He knows jack shit about who needs to be pushed seeing as all his guys end up failing.


----------



## Shazayum (Jan 4, 2010)

MrWalsh said:


> HHH really is a dick though I'll never forget how shitted on Ryder when someone asked why he wasn't Wrestlemania. He knows jack shit about who needs to be pushed seeing as all his guys end up failing.


um. guys like who?


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

He's wrong.

The storyline lost all of it's momentum the 2nd Punk came back. 

People thought Punk was truly leaving while giving the WWE the finger but the 2nd everyone realized that it was just an ordinary wrestling storyline Punk fizzled.

You want proof look at the numbers. 

Summerslam = Flop
Vengeance = Flop

Before Triple H beat Punk so no excuses. Punk fans are just mad that WWE didn't go ahead with Punk v heel Triple H. Here's a hint Triple H haters. Triple H will turn to put John Cena as a mega heel he's not turning just for CM Punk.


----------



## MrWalsh (Feb 21, 2010)

SummerLove said:


> um. guys like who?


Sin Cara was a total failure
Kharma got signed and then promptly left because she got pregnant
Sheamus' multiple pushes failing.

Shit is just quite frankly a disaster with him


----------



## jj87uk (Apr 8, 2011)

MrWalsh said:


> Sin Cara was a total failure
> Kharma got signed and then promptly left because she got pregnant
> Sheamus' multiple pushes failing.
> 
> Shit is just quite frankly a disaster with him


Sin Cara - fair enough
Kharma - not his fault. People like to fuck.
Sheamus - one of the most over superstars in WWE. Your point is invalid

Hate is bad for your objective skills


----------



## Romanista (Jul 13, 2011)

I'm a Knicks fan and I laugh so hard.

so true! Triple H made the show become more wrestling but still destroy many things from inside. he's a cancer.

WWE must be lucky if they still exist in 2022.

and for Carmelo.... Knicks did the worst trade ever. they traded Gallinari, my idol for that crap Carmelo.... EXTREMELY DUMB TRADING.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

Trumpet Thief said:


> Do you guys remember the promo right before the 'Night of Champions' match between Triple H and CM Punk?
> 
> I'm guessing you don't, and I can't say I blame you. As a guy who paid for the pay per view, it's etched into my memory pretty well. The promo consists of various CM Punk promos, trying to get Triple H 'angry'. CM Punk would continue to provoke Triple H, the 'calm, collected CEO', consistently making corny jokes about Stephanie McMahon or how Triple H is a woman. Eventually, as the promo breaks into 'epic guitar music', Triple H gets mad at promises to kick CM Punk's ass. The promo, in a nutshell, made Punk the annoying little kid provoking the ass kicking machine, Triple H. *And in the end, Triple H wins, and CM Punk admits that he was wrong about Triple H.*
> 
> ...


Nobody remembers it because nobody watched that PPV. They didn't watch Summerslam either.

Punk's buzz was dead the second he came back.

I think what Punk fans miss is what made that storyline special. He was giving the WWE the finger as he left the company. Once that illusion faded so did Punk's popularity. He comes back and he's just another generic face, and I'm not quite sure how Triple H gets the blame for that one.


----------



## HHHbkDX (Apr 29, 2009)

:lmao at first I thought CM Punk said this, and I was like WOAH...Then I realized it was that Celtic nut rider Bill Simmons that said this and I ROFL'd. Bill Simmons is just another hick from that poor excuse of a sports broadcasting company, BSPN.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I don't understand how coming back ruined Punk's momentum. It would have ruined his momentum to disappear. You don't leave fans wanting then don't return for weeks. He gave people the idea he wasn't returning so that he could come back under his own terms, which was the point in the first place. 

The tournament made perfect sense considering the storyline was that Punk took the title and left. If the champion is gone or injured you crown a new one its that simple. Would you rather they just handed the title back to Cena?

The booking was fine UNTIL Summerslam. The "foot on the ropes" finish was stupid. Then the clusterfuck of the "foot on the ropes" finish, plus Nash's random ass attack plus Del Rio cashing in, man it was just overbooked. All that stuff could have been spread out. 

The fuckery began immediately after Summerslam. That's when there was simply too many cooks in the kitchen. Mysterio is owed a rematch for the title, but so is Cena and Punk. HHH-Nash-Punk have their thing going on the side. Del rio is champion but looks like a man amongst giants because he's being verbally and physically owned by all the other top guys (except he gets his W over Mysterio which eliminates him for the time being).


----------



## DJ2334 (Jan 18, 2011)

Triple H didn't kill Punk's momentum. The night of champions match made both of them look strong and ended in a clusterfuck. Which may I add was one of the best matches this year and one of the best feuds if not the best feud this year. Some people just need to learn to enjoy the product and not care who goes over and who doesn't.


----------



## MrWalsh (Feb 21, 2010)

If Skip Bayless shits on HHH next you know hes an asshole


----------



## Romanista (Jul 13, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> :shocked:
> 
> :lmao
> 
> And about this subject, HHH made a mistake because he should have let him feud with Del Rio in an even more irrelevant feud. Don't see the problem at all with this result after he gave Punk a lot of mic time against him. More than usual for HHH opponent.


1. Punk lost the title to ADR cuz HHH want to inject Kevin Nash and himself to the storyline.

2. ADR mega push was HHH's project. he want to promote hispanic superstars.

therefore... it's all HHH's faults.


----------



## Shazayum (Jan 4, 2010)

MrWalsh said:


> Sin Cara was a total failure
> Kharma got signed and then promptly left because she got pregnant
> Sheamus' multiple pushes failing.
> 
> Shit is just quite frankly a disaster with him


Sin Cara was a great draw in Mexico. Hindsight is 20/20, nobody would have guessed he'd be such a screwup.
How is Kharma getting pregnant his fault?
Sheamus' pushes FAILING? He's a multiple time WWE champion and he's on his way to main eventing Wrestlemania and he's one of the most over superstars on the roster.

Anything else?


----------



## glenwo2 (May 9, 2011)

GillbergReturns said:


> He's wrong.
> 
> The storyline lost all of it's momentum the 2nd Punk came back.
> 
> People thought Punk was truly leaving while giving the WWE the finger but the 2nd everyone realized that it was just an ordinary wrestling storyline Punk fizzled.


You really believe that Vince would've allowed Punk to leave the WWE with HIS Company's BELT and appear on an ROH telecast or TNA telecast ala Madusa(WCW)?


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

jonoaries said:


> I don't understand how coming back ruined Punk's momentum. It would have ruined his momentum to disappear. You don't leave fans wanting then don't return for weeks. He gave people the idea he wasn't returning so that he could come back under his own terms, which was the point in the first place.
> 
> The tournament made perfect sense considering the storyline was that Punk took the title and left. If the champion is gone or injured you crown a new one its that simple. Would you rather they just handed the title back to Cena?
> 
> ...


Him returning ruined his momentum because the reason why his shoot was so effective was because alot of people bought as a genuine moment.

As that illusion faded so did Punk's mystique.

Blaming the outcome of Summerslam and Vengeance as the reason why his push lost steam is problematic because you're ignoring the fact that those PPVs didn't draw period. How much steam do you really have if you're not drawing? MITB drew. That was a can't miss PPV. Everything since he's returned has been below standard. 

This is what it boils down to. WWE wanted to save Triple H's heel turn til after Mania and more likely than not to tie in with Cena's heel turn so instead of giving Punk Triple H they gave Punk Lauranitis to feud with.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

glenwo2 said:


> Still can't believe this girl doesn't know who Carmelo Anthony is. :no:


Inform us then, knowledgeable one.


jonoaries said:


> I don't understand how coming back ruined Punk's momentum. It would have ruined his momentum to disappear. You don't leave fans wanting then don't return for weeks. He gave people the idea he wasn't returning so that he could come back under his own terms, which was the point in the first place.
> 
> The tournament made perfect sense considering the storyline was that Punk took the title and left. If the champion is gone or injured you crown a new one its that simple. Would you rather they just handed the title back to Cena?


Coming back, and the consequential championship tourney, undermined Punk's entire basis of leaving. He was taking the championship with him, and we were led to believe that would have put the WWE in a tailspin of proportions never seen before. Instead of freaking the fuck out, Vince shrugged his shoulders and said 'okay, championship tournament'. Punk came back at the end of the next week anyway, and it was quite anticlimatic. It wouldn't have ruined his momentum because CM Punk would have been extremely conspicuous in his absence, think Zack Ryder getting chants when he's not even on the show sort of thing.


DJ2334 said:


> Triple H didn't kill Punk's momentum. The night of champions match made both of them look strong and ended in a clusterfuck. Which may I add was one of the best matches this year and one of the best feuds if not the best feud this year. Some people just need to learn to enjoy the product and not care who goes over and who doesn't.


Sometimes it's not just about the outcome of the match, it's about the match itself. This was not one of those times. CM Punk verbally abused HHH for several weeks on end, calling him this this and that and even saying things about _his wife_. He did that under the belief that HHH screwed him somehow. Not only was he completely put in his place by being defeated in HHH's first match since Wrestlemania, he later apologised once it became apparent that there was no comspiracy against him. That's how you make a complete fool out of someone, and they pulled it off with success.


----------



## 1TheGreatOne1 (Jul 17, 2011)

Lol I've been saying this since HHH first came back.

I knew he would come back and ruin Punk because he's just a jealous bastard. The best angle in _years_ and HHH just couldn't wait to stick his big nose in it, imo Punk hasn't been the same since..he had to work a bit more to get crowd reactions he once got in the Summer.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

glenwo2 said:


> You really believe that Vince would've allowed Punk to leave the WWE with HIS Company's BELT and appear on an ROH telecast or TNA telecast ala Madusa(WCW)?


I'm not sure if you know how a timeline works but Punk's shoot happened before he left with the belt at MITB.

Do you understand? As the feud played out of course everyone figured it out that it was indeed a work in every sense.


----------



## Romanista (Jul 13, 2011)

Carmelo Anthony is an egomaniac basketball player who always show off and score for himself, not for the team.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

DJ2334 said:


> Triple H didn't kill Punk's momentum. The night of champions match made both of them look strong and ended in a clusterfuck. Which may I add was one of the best matches this year and one of the best feuds if not the best feud this year. Some people just need to learn to enjoy the product and not care who goes over and who doesn't.


:lmao One of the best matches of the year... I'd have to disagree, but not to get off topic:

Punk looked strong in the NoC match no doubt, but we already saw him go to those limits when he faced Cena at MITB. He kicked out of two AA's there, kicked out of two pedigrees at NOC, and looked like he was on the level of both men (who are about equal). Problem is the build-up, and the aftermatch is what completely destroyed Punk's momentum. It wasn't necessarily the match itself.


----------



## taset50 (Feb 12, 2012)

fpalmfpalmfpalm

Times likes these you can blatantly see how miserable the IWC understanding of the business and the booking is. Embarrassing. 

Why should the WWE even bother with screwjob finishes if these IWC idiots dont even care to think? Punk kicked out of two fucking pedigrees and a clusterfuck of distractions before getting pinned FFS. 

EVERYONE IS BURIED.




GillbergReturns said:


> Him returning ruined his momentum because the reason why his shoot was so effective was because alot of people bought as a genuine moment.
> 
> As that illusion faded so did Punk's mystique.
> 
> ...



The only good post in this entire thread. Repped sir.





1TheGreatOne1 said:


> Lol I've been saying this since HHH first came back.
> 
> I knew he would come back and ruin Punk because he's just a jealous bastard. The best angle in _years_ and HHH just couldn't wait to stick his big nose in it, imo Punk hasn't been the same since..he had to work a bit more to get crowd reactions he once got in the Summer.



If HHH was so jealous of punk, why is punk still the champion dumbass? Why is hhh not the wwe champion right now? Why let punk talk about his wife? 

After reading this thread, I truly wish HHH legit buried that overrated fuck CM punk. :no::no:


----------



## chronoxiong (Apr 1, 2005)

I remember a lot of people here were saying that Triple H did kill Punk's momentum. For Simmons to say this just further proves that Triple H did kill it for Punk and it took Punk a while to gain it back. Let's not forget that Punk never got proper revenge on Kevin Nash who was the one who first attacked Punk.


----------



## DJ2334 (Jan 18, 2011)

Obis said:


> :lmao One of the best matches of the year... I'd have to disagree, but not to get off topic:
> 
> Punk looked strong in the NoC match no doubt, but we already saw him go to those limits when he faced Cena at MITB. He kicked out of two AA's there, kicked out of two pedigrees at NOC, and looked like he was on the level of both men (who are about equal). Problem is the build-up, and the aftermatch is what completely destroyed Punk's momentum. It wasn't necessarily the match itself.


I meant it was one of the most enjoyable matches of the year to watch, not best as in technical wrestling terms. Also the only problem with Punk is that he went from feuding with Cena and Triple H to feuding with Del Rio and Ziggler. That's why people are saying he lost his momentum. He needs an actual feud with a credible wrestler and if Jericho wins at the Elimination Chamber, he'll have that feud.


----------



## MrWalsh (Feb 21, 2010)

Before people were saying that HHH didn't kill punks momentum because the angle was going to lead to somewhere which it didn't. They have no reason to defend HHH right now except to try and downplay CM Punk like that loss meant nothing.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

GillbergReturns said:


> *Him returning ruined his momentum because the reason why his shoot was so effective was because alot of people bought as a genuine moment.
> 
> As that illusion faded so did Punk's mystique.
> 
> Blaming the outcome of Summerslam and Vengeance as the reason why his push lost steam is problematic because you're ignoring the fact that those PPVs didn't draw period. How much steam do you really have if you're not drawing? MITB drew. That was a can't miss PPV. Everything since he's returned has been below standard. *


I could have sworn that since MITB every arena Punk stepped in the crowds went batshit for him. 

When you talk about "drawing" you're grasping at straws. Vengeance & NOC wasn't going to draw that well anyway. Summerslam is the 2nd biggest PPV of the year and Cena/Punk was the biggest possible match. The rest of the card was meh. While the MITB PPV had 2 ladder matches. But that's neither here nor there. 

And since Summerslam, as I mentioned, the booking decisions of the E have been shit.



greendayedgehead said:


> *Coming back, and the consequential championship tourney, undermined Punk's entire basis of leaving. He was taking the championship with him, and we were led to believe that would have put the WWE in a tailspin of proportions never seen before. Instead of freaking the fuck out, Vince shrugged his shoulders and said 'okay, championship tournament'. Punk came back at the end of the next week anyway, and it was quite anticlimatic.* It wouldn't have ruined his momentum because CM Punk would have been extremely conspicuous in his absence, think Zack Ryder getting chants when he's not even on the show sort of thing.


Anticlimatic for whom? Nobody knew he was coming back so soon. And what should he have held out for? He was getting what he wanted AND he had the title, so why stay gone? We can assume he would have been "missed" but its just that an assumption. And he HAD to main event Summerslam because it was the biggest possible match in the 2nd biggest PPV of the year.

As far as the tournament was concerned VKM was in more compromising positions than a guy leaving. Example: Cena's injury at No Mercy 2008. He handed the belt to Orton, who promptly lost it to HHH and then won it back later that same night. 
It doesn't make sense for Vince to have a deer in headlights reaction because he's faced that situation numerous times. Besides interim champions are the norm in other sports where the champion is unavailable. 

I don't disagree that it could have been done better, but to say he should have stayed off of TV is not good for business in the long term. The booking during and after Summerslam is the problem.


----------



## rickyboy123 (Aug 1, 2011)

haha so true, just wait until trips take a hold of the company tho, the burying has only just began...


----------



## Bogey (Feb 11, 2008)

Didn't bother to go through 14 pages but Bill Simmons is a total hack douchebag. I don't know why anyone gives him any reverance. This coming from someone who doesn't care much for Triple H either.


----------



## Tony Tornado (Dec 19, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj0kR7I2Et8

How do you blind HHH marks defend this one? This is how you acknowledge and reward people for their hard work?

There's absolutely no reasonable explanation for HHH's constant burying of talent. Those of you who say that their feud and subsequent match at NOC helped Punk's popularity should be more careful with your medication. 

There were a hundred better ways of continuing Punk's storyline so shut the fuck up with your "what would he have done next? feud with ADR?" bullshit. Me and countless others began watching wrestling again because of that storyline, because it was good and unpredictable television. Triple H's involvement brought it back to its usual shittyness. I bet I'm not the only one who's ready to give up on it once again, which I probably will after WM28.


----------



## metr0man (Mar 17, 2011)

Haha wow, that was quite the cutting (in addition to being funny and true) comment by Bill Simmons (for those unaware, he's basically one of the most widely read sportswriters out there, and something of a media phenom with NYTImes bestselling books, an ESPN-affiliated website, and ESPN tv appearances, and a popular podcast).


----------



## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

*I don't know how being insulted by Bill Simmons equates to anyone being destroyed. Can someone explain that to me?*


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Romanista said:


> Carmelo Anthony is an egomaniac basketball player who always show off and score for himself, not for the team.


Oh. Haha, sounds like HHH's basketball twin.



jonoaries said:


> *Anticlimatic for whom? Nobody knew he was coming back so soon.* And what should he have held out for? He was getting what he wanted AND he had the title, so why stay gone? We can assume he would have been "missed" but its just that an assumption. And he HAD to main event Summerslam because it was the biggest possible match in the 2nd biggest PPV of the year.
> 
> As far as the tournament was concerned VKM was in more compromising positions than a guy leaving. Example: Cena's injury at No Mercy 2008. He handed the belt to Orton, who promptly lost it to HHH and then won it back later that same night.
> It doesn't make sense for Vince to have a deer in headlights reaction because he's faced that situation numerous times. Besides interim champions are the norm in other sports where the champion is unavailable.
> ...


That doesn't make any sense. If I have a story, and it's building really well and I say "oh and btw he dies here" does that not make it anticlimatic because you didn't know he wasn't gonna die? No. He would have stayed gone to make a point. He left to make a point and in doing so created a controversy. That would have been saying "you overlooked me for so long, I'm still not coming back just because everyone's begging me because I have always been good and you've never appreciated it." CM Punk _was _wrestling at that point, it's no 'assumption' that people would have noticed the Punk sized hole in the roster. I think coming back after Summerslam would have been leaving it too late tbh, he could have still ME'd it but just not come back as soon. The SSlam match vs Cena spoke for itself, it wouldn't have needed the several episodes of build.

I know it wouldn't have made sense, but since when do the WWE make sense? We were willing to go with it because what they were showing us were simply sensational. Nitpicking it at that point wouldn't have been necessary.


----------



## glenwo2 (May 9, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> Inform us then, knowledgeable one.


SERIOUSLY?


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

glenwo2 said:


> SERIOUSLY?


Newsflash, not everyone watches or even cares for Basketball.


----------



## Dark_Raiden (Feb 14, 2009)

First of all Melo's not selfish at all, second of all Lin's far less established than Punk, third the HHH situation obviously happened like this:

"There's no one for Punk to feud with" "how about Nash?" "Sure he's legend and the roster's kinda weak" "Oh Nash is injured? H can you substitute for him?" "Sure as long as I go over." Basically HHH agreed to step in to the match and give Punk a high profile opponent but wanted to win if he was to do so. I completely understand it tbh and would do the same. And the Melo Lin situation can be the same, If Melo(HHH) wants to come back and take over, he can cause he's 100x better than Lin(Punk).


----------



## glenwo2 (May 9, 2011)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Newsflash, not everyone watches or even cares for Basketball.



Newsflash, not everyone is CLUELESS as to not know even in passing who Carmelo Anthony is. You can't avoid NBA Basketball.


(unless you're in Europe or something and if that's the case, then I can see why he won't know....then again, the NBA is supposed to have a presence there, too? Hmmm)


----------



## BrosOfDestruction (Feb 1, 2012)

i don't know. carmelo isn't like lebron, kobe, jordan or shaq that he's known worldwide or marketed at such a high level though his publicity definitely went up after he was traded. i actually thought that was one of the reasons he got traded because denver's a pretty small market. he's always wanted the spotlight especially after lebrick went to miami and formed a big 3.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

DJ2334 said:


> I meant it was one of the most enjoyable matches of the year to watch, not best as in technical wrestling terms. Also the only problem with Punk is that he went from feuding with Cena and Triple H to feuding with Del Rio and Ziggler. That's why people are saying he lost his momentum. He needs an actual feud with a credible wrestler and if Jericho wins at the Elimination Chamber, he'll have that feud.


I can't tell you what to enjoy or not enjoy, so fair point...

... and while it's true Punk going from Cena and HHH to Del Rio can contribute to the reason, had his momentum and starpower not been down-sized/crushed in the feud with HHH, that Punk/Del Rio feud would've looked less like a mid-card feud and more like a main event feud. Same thing goes with Punk/Ziggler. He shouldn't need a credible superstar to feud with... he should be the credible superstar. And he was on that path up until Summerslam. Then the whole Nash/Punk/HHH shit started up. It was a poorly booked mess that cost Punk all that momentum he had from the shoot promo. He went from being the center of Raw to being a third wheel to HHH and Nash's problems.


----------



## glenwo2 (May 9, 2011)

BrosOfDestruction said:


> i don't know. carmelo isn't like lebron, kobe, jordan or shaq that he's known worldwide or marketed at such a high level though his publicity definitely went up after he was traded. i actually thought that was one of the reasons he got traded because denver's a pretty small market. he's always wanted the spotlight especially after lebrick went to miami and formed a big 3.


True. He's not as well-known but he is good enough for MOST people to recognize his name at least.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Dark_Raiden said:


> First of all Melo's not selfish at all, second of all Lin's far less established than Punk, third the HHH situation obviously happened like this:
> 
> "There's no one for Punk to feud with" "how about Nash?" "Sure he's legend and the roster's kinda weak" "Oh Nash is injured? H can you substitute for him?" "Sure as long as I go over." Basically HHH agreed to step in to the match and give Punk a high profile opponent but wanted to win if he was to do so. *I completely understand it tbh and would do the same.* And the Melo Lin situation can be the same, If Melo(HHH) wants to come back and take over, he can cause he's 100x better than Lin(Punk).


Then you're poopy.


BrosOfDestruction said:


> i don't know. carmelo isn't like lebron, kobe, jordan or shaq that he's known worldwide or marketed at such a high level though his publicity definitely went up after he was traded. i actually thought that was one of the reasons he got traded because denver's a pretty small market. he's always wanted the spotlight especially after lebrick went to miami and formed a big 3.


Yeah, I've heard of all those guys because they are genuine superstars. Carmelo is a relative small fry. I'm also a girl btw

oh yeah and European.


----------



## BrosOfDestruction (Feb 1, 2012)

glenwo2 said:


> True. He's not as well-known but he is good enough for MOST people to recognize his name at least.


i would say the majority do recognize him. he has a shoe deal with the jordan brand, plays in a huge market in NY and has always been one of the more popular player s in the league being part of the 03 draft class. that said, it's still possible for someone to not know who he is. if you don't who kobe or jordan are (at least having heard their names), then there's a big issue though.


----------



## BrosOfDestruction (Feb 1, 2012)

greendayedgehead said:


> Then you're poopy.
> 
> Yeah, I've heard of all those guys because they are genuine superstars. Carmelo is a relative small fry. I'm also a girl btw
> 
> oh yeah and European.


ok, that's definitely understandable.


----------



## glenwo2 (May 9, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> Yeah, I've heard of all those guys because they are genuine superstars. Carmelo is a relative small fry. I'm also a girl btw
> 
> oh yeah and European.


Are you hot?


----------



## It's True (Nov 24, 2008)

great call haha


----------



## Romanista (Jul 13, 2011)

glenwo2 said:


> SERIOUSLY?


:lmao one of the comment there.

not sure if this guy talking about Melo or HHH.


@spetrus I agree with you 100 percent. This guy is the most overrated player﻿ in the game. He is a cancer, fucking up any team for which he plays. I wouldn't pay a dollar to see him play. Why don't the commentators on ESPN rip Melo?
JayGatsbyOdysseus 1 week ago


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

On second thought, Carmelo isn't as egotistical as he was in the past few years. Before Jeremy Lin, Knicks didn't even have a general floor manager so he was forced to the everything.


----------



## BrosOfDestruction (Feb 1, 2012)

LarryCoon said:


> On second thought, Carmelo isn't as egotistical as he was in the past few years. Before Jeremy Lin, Knicks didn't even have a general floor manager so he was forced to the everything.


thing is we don't know how he's going to fit within the team after he's back. his game has always clashed with talent (ai/melo?). his shot selection is questionable which you can see in his inconsistent shooting nights and you can't run an offense through him because he doesn't pass well out of double teams and stagnates the offense. he's a one dimensional guy. great skilled scorer but doesn't provide anything else at a high level. there's a reason denver didn't miss a beat when they traded him away and new york didn't improve. that's not superstar impact. i'm not sure how lin/melo/amare are going to work it out especially with a coach like d'antoni.


----------



## KiNgoFKiNgS23 (Feb 13, 2008)

bill simmons 100% correct as usual.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

jonoaries said:


> I could have sworn that since MITB every arena Punk stepped in the crowds went batshit for him.
> 
> When you talk about "drawing" you're grasping at straws. Vengeance & NOC wasn't going to draw that well anyway. Summerslam is the 2nd biggest PPV of the year and Cena/Punk was the biggest possible match. The rest of the card was meh. While the MITB PPV had 2 ladder matches. But that's neither here nor there.
> 
> ...


It's comparing the PPVs to how they did last year. Decline in all 3. 

You're severly overrating just how hot Punk was. He sold alot of gear. That's about it. Outside of MITB there's been no increase in ratings, attendance, or PPV buys. 

I think you're missing the point. I'm not saying he should have held out longer I'm saying it was smoke and mirrors to begin with. Alot of people were fooled on his promo, and the second they realized this was just another storyline was the second Punk became uninteresting.

CM Punk never had the ability to create a new genre. WWE never screwed it up because it was never there to begin with. 

He's the WWE champion on the road to Wrestlemania and you guys think that losing to Triple H in a meaningless PPV screwed up his momentum. Give me a break. 

What it boils down to is you guys are p**** off that Triple H didn't turn to put Punk over. What you guys are missing is that Triple H will turn heel to put heel John Cena over because he's still their number 1 guy not CM Punk. Once Cena and Trips are a top of the mountain now you got the foundation for Punk to try to knock them off.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Because John Cena, heel or otherwise, needs to be put over by Triple H. YEP.


----------



## GillbergReturns (Aug 9, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> Because John Cena, heel or otherwise, needs to be put over by Triple H. YEP.


Heels work better in stables. What you have to understand is you can't turn Cena unless you have an equally brilliant marketing campaign for him as a heel.

EX. Hulk Hogan and the NWO Shawn Michaels and DX

Mean John Cena just isn't going to make money on it's own.

So do you see why keeping Triple H face for the time being has it's benefits. You want to tie him to Cena not CM Punk.


----------



## holt_hogan (Jun 28, 2011)

HHH was always the real higher power.unk


----------



## Carcass (Mar 12, 2010)

GillbergReturns said:


> What it boils down to is you guys are p**** off that Triple H didn't turn to put Punk over. What you guys are missing is that Triple H will turn heel to put heel John Cena over because he's still their number 1 guy not CM Punk. Once Cena and Trips are a top of the mountain now you got the foundation for Punk to try to knock them off.


As awesome as it would be, that ain't happening. The closest we'll get is HHH turning heel and Cena feuding with him.


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

BrosOfDestruction said:


> thing is we don't know how he's going to fit within the team after he's back. his game has always clashed with talent (ai/melo?). his shot selection is questionable which you can see in his inconsistent shooting nights and you can't run an offense through him because he doesn't pass well out of double teams and stagnates the offense. he's a one dimensional guy. great skilled scorer but doesn't provide anything else at a high level. there's a reason denver didn't miss a beat when they traded him away and new york didn't improve. that's not superstar impact. i'm not sure how lin/melo/amare are going to work it out especially with a coach like d'antoni.


Denver didn't miss a beat because of the one-sidedness nature of the trade (favoring Denver)


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

GillbergReturns said:


> It's comparing the PPVs to how they did last year. Decline in all 3.
> 
> *You're severly overrating just how hot Punk was. He sold alot of gear. That's about it. Outside of MITB there's been no increase in ratings, attendance, or PPV buys.*
> 
> ...


1--I'm not exaggerating Punk at all. I didn't say he was "drawing" which I said is a cop out argument anyway. See cats run to the "he can't draw" argument when they got nothing else. Fans shouldn't really care about that anyway. My whole point is Punk is crazy over and he's in a position to make changes in the product. You don't believe he can and maybe he can't but we already hear that the word "wrestler" has creeped back into the Raw lexicon and you also have people chanting "ice cream bars", and "pipe bomb" signs etc. He's just getting started, its only been a few months. This shits not done overnight. I hate to use this analogy but SCSA didn't blow up immediately, it took time. It took time for HBK, Rock, Foley all of them. You can't microwave success. But you see that if Punk is given the opportunity to see PPVs and merch he can do it, shit he basically sold MITB by himself. 

2--everyone should have known it was just a storyline, c'mon stop it

3--i don't think losing to H hurt his momentum. I think his momentum was hurt before the actual match (which losing didn't help). In any event not many people outside the IWC care that he lost to H.

4--i don't care if H turns or not. As the elder star who is becoming limited in the ring he has a responsibility to make young guys look good when he faces them. Mick Foley and Steve Austin did it for him, its his turn. I feel like he shafted him by not taking a loss but I'm just one person and I know neither H or Punk is going anywhere so it doesn't have to be immediately. In fact I don't care if H doesn't do a job to him, I just feel like H didn't do anything to help his character at all, which is his job to do.


----------



## Your_Solution (Apr 28, 2008)

HHH is my favorite wrestler of all time. That will never change. But what he did with Punk is impossible to defend. It didn't elevate Punk at all, it hurt his momentum and from that match until Survivor Series Punk was an afterthought. I know the WWE doesn't have a ton of credible heels who could really put Punk over, but even just keeping Punk-Cena going (with Cena losing after interference from Miz/Truth to set up the SS match with Rock) would've made a ton more sense. 

After beating Cena at Summerslam, Punk lost to ADR, Cena, HHH, Miz/Truth, ADR in the Cell, and got powerbombed by Nash a million times without ever getting any retribution. They've recovered somewhat by pushing him like crazy from SS onwards, but they wasted a ton of potential.


----------



## The Host (Feb 15, 2012)

jonoaries said:


> 4--i don't care if H turns or not. As the elder star who is becoming limited in the ring he has a responsibility to make young guys look good when he faces them. Mick Foley and Steve Austin did it for him, its his turn. I feel like he shafted him by not taking a loss but I'm just one person and I know neither H or Punk is going anywhere so it doesn't have to be immediately. In fact I don't care if H doesn't do a job to him, I just feel like H didn't do anything to help his character at all, which is his job to do.


Triple h did that for punk. Why did you think a 42 year old guy,who has accomplished everything in the business and is a respected legend, returns to wwe with a fresh new gimmick and allows punk to trash him,his legacy, his wife on live tv? Simple - To keep punk's momentum going. 

By the time punk lost the title, his momentum was almost gone, WWE fucked up by bringing him back too soon. HHH tried to keep his "Pipebomb" gimmick going by allowing him to trash his wife. 

Think what you want, HHH is an ego-maniac or whatever but you cant prove HHH intended to kill punk's momentum or "Bury" him. The N.O.C match was face vs face, by pinning babyface HHH, punk gains nothing but appearing like a heel to the casuals. 


Oh and BTW, Austin hasnt done anything for HHH. Its a known fact he always refused to drop the title to HHH because he thought HHH is inferior to him. Austin let HHH go over clean at No way out 2001 only because he needed heel hhh for the Two man power trip later that year.

HHH has put over a lot of superstars even in his prime btw.


----------



## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

iMiZFiT said:


> So true. I despise Punk but even i cannot see the business sense in beating Punk when he was at the height of his popularity.
> 
> It killed his momentum, and the only reason i can think of is that Triple H done it to feed his ego.


Yes, because Punk should never lose a match.


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

jonoaries said:


> See cats run to the "he can't draw" argument when they got nothing else. Fans shouldn't really care about that anyway.


This is where you lost me. Fans shouldn't care about the most important thing in wrestling? Everyone has different favorite wrestlers. Drawing power (when put into proper context) is the best indicator people have on who is able to garner people's attention. 

You do know that Vince/WWE decides to push certain wrestlers based on drawing power and ratings? Wasn't there a report 2 weeks ago on the ratings thread evidencing this fact?


----------



## Natsuke (Dec 2, 2009)

For anyone who needed a full explanation of what went down last summer, my old conspiracy summary thread is still up:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/raw/5...one-up-speed-major-spoilers.html#post10397939

It wasn't updated in a while, but it's dead obvious how this angle turned into the HHH show real fucking quick lmao


----------



## azhkz (Jan 3, 2012)

The Host said:


> Triple h did that for punk. Why did you think a 42 year old guy,who has accomplished everything in the business and is a respected legend, returns to wwe with a fresh new gimmick and allows punk to trash him,his legacy, his wife on live tv? Simple - To keep punk's momentum going.
> 
> By the time punk lost the title, his momentum was almost gone, WWE fucked up by bringing him back too soon. HHH tried to keep his "Pipebomb" gimmick going by allowing him to trash his wife.
> 
> ...


This is a quality post. 

HHH does not need to be on screen to destroy Punk's momentum if he wanted to when he can perfectly do the same thing behind the scene. Infact now HHH has a perfect excuse to bury Punk by involving him in shitty storylines or making him job to other wrestlers if he wants to seeing that Punk is unable to draw big.

Instead HHH allows Punk to trash him and his wife on live tv keeping his pipebombs relevant even though the guy was already losing his steam before HHH got involved with him. Plus HHH is a huge star with good credibility and losing to him that too by interference is not killing someones momentum. Punk is a champion now so how is he buried?


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

LarryCoon said:


> This is where you lost me. Fans shouldn't care about the most important thing in wrestling? Everyone has different favorite wrestlers. Drawing power (when put into proper context) is the best indicator people have on who is able to garner people's attention.
> 
> You do know that Vince/WWE decides to push certain wrestlers based on drawing power and ratings? Wasn't there a report 2 weeks ago on the ratings thread evidencing this fact?


I notice you have basketball in your signature. Do you check the ratings for basketball games you watch? Do you even give a damn?
I don't give a shit period, its not relevant to my life that's Vince's problem. He's the booker and the guy with money to lose so I leave that to him. I won't complicate my wrestling watching experience wondering how many other people are watching.


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

jonoaries said:


> I notice you have basketball in your signature. Do you check the ratings for basketball games you watch? Do you even give a damn?
> I don't give a shit period, its not relevant to my life that's Vince's problem. He's the booker and the guy with money to lose so I leave that to him. I won't complicate my wrestling watching experience wondering how many other people are watching.


The goal of a professional basketball player is to win an NBA championship. The goal of a professional wrestler is to garner ratings and draw people into their PPV matches.

If you don't give a shit about ratings, you really shouldn't be arguing about which wrestlers deserve a push, which wrestler is doing the better job, which wrestler is more popular, which wrestler is superior, which storylines are working, whose pushed worked, who got buried etc.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

The Host said:


> Triple h did that for punk. Why did you think a 42 year old guy,who has accomplished everything in the business and is a respected legend, returns to wwe with a fresh new gimmick and allows punk to trash him,his legacy, his wife on live tv? Simple - To keep punk's momentum going.
> 
> By the time punk lost the title, his momentum was almost gone, WWE fucked up by bringing him back too soon. HHH tried to keep his "Pipebomb" gimmick going by allowing him to trash his wife.
> 
> ...


Let's be honest about this: what did CM Punk gain from feuding with Triple H? 
*He got to trash his legacy--so? he did that already during the shoot.
*He got to trash his wife--again the shoot
*He got to work with the almighty Triple H? Lol maybe. 

What did Punk have to do with the whole H-Nash feud anyway? Why was he even involved?! 

People choose to see what they want and I don't see any purpose for him to be involved in that feud. He should have been with John Cena and ADR in the title picture. That's why I said the clusterfuck booking of Summerslam did more damage than anything. He gained nothing from verbally bashing Nash (which led to no match, no fight, nothing), his war of words with H ended up with Punk apologizing (even worse than losing a match), they had no idea what they were doing with him. 

This argument is getting circular.

How is his momentum broken when the roof goes off every building he enters? Massive CM Punk chants every week. Am I the only one hearing this?
Dude is on his way to surpassing Randy Orton, if he hasn't already and hasn't been in the ring with a credible heel YET! Hell the IWC loves Chris Jericho and they are even shitting on him!
Is this the bizarro-IWC, an early April Fools joke or something?


----------



## Razzerian (Nov 19, 2011)

CNB said:


> Punk hit a level of popularity that was not seen since the Steve Austin run in the mid 90's. This was due to his promo where he 'shot' on the entire company.
> 
> After the MITB PPV, Punk defeated Cena and was at the height of his popularity.
> 
> Then Triple H stepped in, faced Punk and beat him, whilst his best friend Kevin Nash powerbombed Punk randomly aswell.


I've got some observations here;

Let me start by saying, I am not, I repeat, I am not a John Cena fan whatsoever.

However! When John Cena was "on the top of his popularity" (eventhough it probably mainly was a younger audience) and he was basically kicking everyone's ass int he entire company and couldn't be beaten even if Saddam's hidden weapons of mass destruction got fired right uppon his A-hole (oh wait!)... everyone was moaning (including me) how that was rediculous and how Cena was so Superman'esque that it made people puke...


However, all those people who are butthurt about HHH "squashing" the momentum of CM Punk here... he had just beat Cena for the title, so... he isn't allowed to lose when he has momentum?


The storyline at the time, made sense, I mean... CM Punk, "spitting" on the company. Isn't it normal that he'd get a responce from the "leadership". Back in '98-00 it was Austin v McMahon... I guess they just wanted to revive that momentum and it blew up in their face.


They handled it wrong, sure, but do you really think Triple H did it to feed his own ego? 

I guess he was feeding his ego when he lost 3 straight matches to Batista too? Hmmm...


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

LarryCoon said:


> *The goal of a professional basketball player is to win an NBA championship. The goal of a professional wrestler is to garner ratings and draw people into their PPV matches.*
> 
> *If you don't give a shit about ratings, you really shouldn't be arguing about which wrestlers deserve a push, which wrestler is doing the better job, which wrestler is more popular, which wrestler is superior, which storylines are working, whose pushed worked, who got buried etc*.


1--both are forms of entertainment. I notice you didn't answer the question also. I figure its because you don't. Ratings don't fucking matter to fans, whether your team wins or loses does matter. 
If your team won and nobody saw it but you does it not matter? Its the same thing with wrestling. If a guy you like won a good match on Superstars, who cares about anything else. 

2--i don't need ratings to view crowd reaction. I have eyes and ears. 

Now I could go into how fallacious the Neilson boxes and the ratings systems etc is, but you know that already. You should also know that VKM pushes guys regardless of whether they draw or not...I mean ummm ADR, RKO, need I continue?


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

Punk lost momentum once they did those stupid promos where HHH cornered Punk by saying how it was up to the "WWE Universe" to see who gets over which punk couldn't respond without exposing the business.

Now who would have a promo written so that one guys looks better than the other, who would have such power and influence? WHO?


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

jonoaries said:


> 1--both are forms of entertainment. I notice you didn't answer the question also. I figure its because you don't. Ratings don't fucking matter to fans, whether your team wins or loses does matter.
> If your team won and nobody saw it but you does it not matter? Its the same thing with wrestling. If a guy you like won a good match on Superstars, who cares about anything else.
> 
> 2--i don't need ratings to view crowd reaction. I have eyes and ears.
> ...


Win basketball games, get closer to the goal which is an NBA championship. Draw ratings, get pushed by Vince Mcmahon, become closer to becoming a franchise star. THAT is the comparison you should be looking for.

Its seems that you are not that familiar with basketball. A lot of players are criticized for signing with big market teams even if they aren't the best fit for that team. Now what does this have anything to do with the topic? It means that winning basketball games (which is the goal in basketball) and drawing starpower (ala ratings, the goal in WWE) are two different things. 

Didn't ADR's push get halted? Wasn't he stripped of the WWE title at the next PPV due to the fact that he wasn't holding up ratings? Wasn't he jobbed cleanly to CM Punk even when he was wwe champion (because WWE was grooming Punk to be the champion come Survivor Series)?

Randy Orton? Now that he isn't producing as much, didn't he job cleanly to Mark Henry? Wasn't he out of the title picture for months now? He's now feuding with upper-midcard smackdown guys while Daniel Bryan is the world heavyweight champion.


----------



## Razzerian (Nov 19, 2011)

kokepepsi said:


> Punk lost momentum once they did those stupid promos where HHH cornered Punk by saying how it was up to the "WWE Universe" to see who gets over which punk couldn't respond without exposing the business.
> 
> Now who would have a promo written so that one guys looks better than the other, who would have such power and influence? WHO?


Punk is always touting hos he's got full creative control? What happend there?


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

NO people who read those shitty newz sites think Punk has creative control


----------



## The Host (Feb 15, 2012)

kokepepsi said:


> Punk lost momentum once they did those stupid promos where HHH cornered Punk by saying how it was up to the "WWE Universe" to see who gets over which punk couldn't respond without exposing the business.
> 
> Now who would have a promo written so that one guys looks better than the other, who would have such power and influence? WHO?


What a load of shit! If Kayfabe is what restricted punk then the same kayfabe is what restricted HHH from "burying" punk on mic exposing his shoot as nothing more than a rant. 


Even if this was true, how would you explain Punk shooting on hhh and his wife? who scripted that? 




kokepepsi said:


> NO people who read those shitty newz sites think Punk has creative control


Um, wrestling observer reported punk uses his own verbiage in promos. Last time i checked you were big advocate for meltzer and his newsletter. Are you going to call it "shitty" now?


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

kokepepsi said:


> NO people who read those shitty newz sites think Punk has creative control


So creative gave the line to Punk about Del Rio not being able to garner heat? Someone in creative needs to get fired.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

LarryCoon said:


> Win basketball games, get closer to the goal which is an NBA championship. Draw ratings, get pushed by Vince Mcmahon, become closer to becoming a franchise star. THAT is the comparison you should be looking for.
> 
> Didn't ADR's push get halted? Wasn't he stripped of the WWE title at the next PPV due to the fact that he wasn't holding up ratings? Wasn't he jobbed cleanly to CM Punk even when he was wwe champion?
> 
> Randy Orton? Now that he isn't producing as much, didn't he job cleanly to Mark Henry? He's now feuding with upper-midcard smackdown guys while Daniel Bryan is the world heavyweight champion.


Randy Orton got a standing ovation on what was probably the worst drawing SD of the year lol. It was an awesome match nobody wanted to see and what did Vince do? Exactly, he kept the title on Orton. Not only that but Orton/Christian had 4-5 MORE matches after that on PPV NO LESS! So a match that drew horribly on TV was then sold multiple times on PPV? This is the fallacy of the ratings system and the gaping hole of your argument. Vince does what he wants. 

Orton was moved out of the way so Sheamus/Henry/Show could have a run at the top, not because he couldn't draw. Orton may still main event wrestlemania this year and he can't draw!! Lol

There's hundreds of millions of people in the U.S. I have no clue how many have Neilson boxes and I don't care. People watch wrestling on DVR, on youtube, on DVD etc. Relevant questions are:
What are PPV buyrates?
Did Raw or SD sell out the arena?
Are the PPVs selling tickets? 
Is merchandise being moved? 

These are more relevant gauges of the popularity of the wrestling product than TV ratings. it applies directly to the popularity of the product and it speaks to what people are actually putting their MONEY on.

Selling tickets at games and selling jerseys and other gear tell you how popular a basketball player (and his team) are, not TV ratings. Nobody ever told me what Kobe draws on TV, Lol not even the dorks on ESPN address that. But if he had the highest selling jersey they would mention it, if ticket sales were slipping they would definitely mention that too but TV ratings? Only during the finals, other than that nobody talks about them.


----------



## The Host (Feb 15, 2012)

jonoaries said:


> Let's be honest about this: what did CM Punk gain from feuding with Triple H?
> *He got to trash his legacy--so? he did that already during the shoot.
> *He got to trash his wife--again the shoot
> *He got to work with the almighty Triple H? Lol maybe.


OK keep underestimating HHH's starpower. Cant help you there!




> What did Punk have to do with the whole H-Nash feud anyway? Why was he even involved?!
> 
> People choose to see what they want and I don't see any purpose for him to be involved in that feud. He should have been with John Cena and ADR in the title picture. That's why I said the clusterfuck booking of Summerslam did more damage than anything. He gained nothing from verbally bashing Nash (which led to no match, no fight, nothing), his war of words with H ended up with Punk apologizing (even worse than losing a match), they had no idea what they were doing with him.


Why do you keep assuming its HHH doing the booking? He is not a booker or a writer. *EVERYTHING GOES THROUGH VINCE, VINCE HAS THE FINAL SAY!* period. 

Writers didnt know how to follow up after MITB, by the time N.O.C ppv happened the booking was horribly fucked. 

If you can be objective, you will blame the writers not HHH all the time. Why cant hhh book himself to pin punk clean at N.O.C instead of the screwjob finish, why not book himself to win the wwe championship, hell why not end the streak? 

Stop assuming stuff. 



> How is his momentum broken when the roof goes off every building he enters? Massive CM Punk chants every week. Am I the only one hearing this?
> Dude is on his way to surpassing Randy Orton, if he hasn't already and hasn't been in the ring with a credible heel YET! Hell the IWC loves Chris Jericho and they are even shitting on him!
> Is this the bizarro-IWC, an early April Fools joke or something?


This is where you and other marks fail to differentiate casuals from the Internet fans. Punk gets cheered at arena dis not translate to ratings WHICH IS THE SAME CASE WITH ORTON. He did not draw. There was no momentum. 

You cant just dismiss the importance of ratings in wwe. If ratings are not important why is cena pushed to be the face? Why should punk deserve to be in the spotlight? Why is he the WWE champion? Why not ted dibiase or dolph ziggler?


----------



## muttgeiger (Feb 16, 2004)

Honestly, I don't think HHH had anything do do with anything. Punk got hot real quick, and maybe could have gotten huge. When austin first got hot, it wasn't an overnight ratings boom , it took a while to spread from the fans. I think the combination of a. WWE bringing him back WAY too quickly after he left w/ the belt, and then Punk kind of running out of material quckly once he came back is what slowed him down. Don't get me wrong, he is still a top star, but not that mega star. And I think the Value of 'getting put over' by HHH or anyone else is severely overrated. people get over because of their character's entertainment value. Rock lost all the damn time. Punk just isn't up to that level on a weekly basis, he had a killer storyline which they ended too quickly, and one Killer promo to kick it off., and then only did a moderate job of capitalizing on it, thats the truth.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

The Host said:


> OK keep underestimating HHH's starpower. Cant help you there!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I never said H was booking anything, nice inference but its a wrong one. 

I've been arguing the whole "drawing" argument already. NOC bombed and HHH was on that card in his first match since 'Mania.....take it how you want. Rock's comeback didn't do the numbers expected....again take it how you want to.

Ratings aren't important to me at all. I'm no shareholder. I'm a fan, all I care about is the presentation of the product and the quality therein. TV ratings don't mean shit to me.


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

jonoaries said:


> Randy Orton got a standing ovation on what was probably the worst drawing SD of the year lol. It was an awesome match nobody wanted to see and what did Vince do? Exactly, he kept the title on Orton. Not only that but Orton/Christian had 4-5 MORE matches after that on PPV NO LESS! So a match that drew horribly on TV was then sold multiple times on PPV? This is the fallacy of the ratings system and the gaping hole of your argument. Vince does what he wants.
> 
> Orton was moved out of the way so Sheamus/Henry/Show could have a run at the top, not because he couldn't draw. Orton may still main event wrestlemania this year and he can't draw!! Lol
> 
> ...


Lol I never said Orton wasn't a draw. I even thought you might've implied it. I said Orton wasn't producing ratings as much (which he currently isn't) and therefore was put out of the title picture. All you've described right now are events 6 months ago and I think Orton has had higher ratings back then.

Funny how you backed off Del Rio's case. He is the perfect candidate as to why ratings matter. You are talking about a man, while WWE champion, was forced to job cleanly to CM Punk on a TV match. 

Hundreds and millions of people yet you rely on your eyes and ears on the reaction of 10,000 people in attendance from a specific city? All you've done is list even more examples of how a wrestler's drawing capability is measure which I agree with. You haven't disproven neilsen boxes. Of course they are a rough estimate but it is currently the best estimate we have when it comes to TV shows. PPVs and merch sales are yet another good way to measure wrestlers but talk about segmenting your audience. Only a few percentage of them buy PPVs not named Wrestlemania and buy from WWE.com. Criticizing neilsen boxes for having a small sample size and then bringing up examples having even smaller sample sizes now are we?

Why do you even keep going back to basketball? Haven't we established the fact that selling jerseys doesn't matter? Winning basketball games does.

For professional wrestling, unless you are going to argue kayfabe nonesense, drawing money and ratings are the most important thing to get a guy to be pushed by Vince and hopefully be a franchise star.


----------



## THANOS (Jun 20, 2006)

urca said:


> Anyone has that video when CM Punk mocks Triple H with Samoa Joe or Colt Cabana where he says 'i want to wear the WWE Title when i go to church' or something like that?


Here you go lol

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9twzv_punk_sport


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

Triple H is one of my all time favorites , but the storyline did turn pointless after a while IMO. CM punks rebel character was best when he was fighting Triple H and Vince McMahon. This stuff with Ace is not cutting it IMO. Ace forgets his lines almost every week and has a dry ass voice. I still want to see the feud between Triple H and CM Punk pick up soon.


----------



## -Halo- (Nov 26, 2009)

No comment fpalm


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

LarryCoon said:


> Lol I never said Orton wasn't a draw. I even thought you might've implied it. I said Orton wasn't producing ratings as much (which he currently isn't) and therefore was put out of the title picture. All you've described right now are events 6 months ago and I think Orton has had higher ratings back then.
> 
> Funny how you backed off Del Rio's case. He is the perfect candidate as to why ratings matter. You are talking about a man, while WWE champion, was forced to job cleanly to CM Punk on a TV match.
> 
> ...



Let's go to your first point:
The 10K people in attendance are IN ATTENDENCE. Which means they took money directly out of their own pockets and put it into Vince's. Not to mention they actually WANT TO SEE THE SHOW. They have a vested interest in the product, they aren't at home clicking back and forth between The First 48, Intervention and Raw. They are THERE, they wanted to be THERE, if they didn't they wouldn't have purchased a ticket. 

TV ratings are arbitrary. Shit some people may not be in a wrestling mood and won't watch it regardless of who's on there or what they are doing. Once a fan is in attendance they cheer and boo or sit on their hands for whomever they like, dislike or are indifferent for. They were indifferent to Del Rio, he lacked heat (going back to January of last year as a matter of fact) so of course he wasn't "drawing". But who's to say that's why the title was taken from him? Neither of us know for sure. He could be getting it back upon return. 

Like I said Randy Orton is a franchise player for Vince and he's NOT a TV draw. Cena may be the "perfect prototype" of a guy who sells ppvs, merch and is a TV draw but he's not Vince's only golden boy. Apparently some here believe Mark Henry is a TV draw but do you really believe Mark Henry will win the WWE title? Not likely right? The divas almost always lose viewers yet he doesn't drop the divas division, if ratings matter so much, why keep them around? TV ratings don't really mean shit. Talk to me when attendance is suffering. 

Historically speaking, if TV ratings mattered HBK wouldn't have amounted to anything beyond his first title run. Diesel, Bret Hart, etc they had trouble being TV draws and even some attendance failures but today we don't judge them based on that stupid shit. Diesel sucked as WWE champion because he produced no classic matches or moments and was champion for a year. HBK is one of the greats because he put on classics and had memorable moments, who cares what his PPV buys or Raws ratings were? 

TV ratings didn't get revelant until 1997-1998 and they are basically obsolete today. Like I said people find a multitude of different reasons & ways to watch wrestling. The people who really want to see it will watch it. I, myself don't care either way. 

I keep bringing up basketball because as a basketball fan all you care about is if your team wins or loses, as a wrestling fan all I care about is if my favs win or lose, PERIOD. Anything beyond that is extra.


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

jonoaries said:


> TV ratings are arbitrary. Shit some people may not be in a wrestling mood and won't watch it regardless of who's on there or what they are doing. Once a fan is in attendance they cheer and boo or sit on their hands for whomever they like, dislike or are indifferent for. They were indifferent to Del Rio, he lacked heat (going back to January of last year as a matter of fact) so of course he wasn't "drawing". But who's to say that's why the title was taken from him? Neither of us know for sure. He could be getting it back upon return.


Right then, which is why other programming and outside factors are taken into account. This is also why there are segment by segment ratings and WWE themselves have the minute by minute ratings. You can argue those factors when discussing ratings but don't plead the amendment of being blind to the importance of ratings. 



jonoaries said:


> Like I said Randy Orton is a franchise player for Vince and he's NOT a TV draw. Cena may be the "perfect prototype" of a guy who sells ppvs, merch and is a TV draw but he's not Vince's only golden boy. Apparently some here believe Mark Henry is a TV draw but do you really believe Mark Henry will win the WWE title? Not likely right? The divas almost always lose viewers yet he doesn't drop the divas division, if ratings matter so much, why keep them around? TV ratings don't really mean shit. Talk to me when attendance is suffering.


Another one... Randy Orton isn't on Cena's level, but he WAS a TV draw 6 months ago. Did you see the smackdown segment by segment draw back then? Mark Henry was gaining steam by then, (gaining viewers, not merch sales) which is why WWE decided to job Orton cleanly to him. By the way, attendance is suffering. 

lol bringing up the Diva's division. The Diva's division isn't a draw WHICH IS WHY THE ENTIRE SEGMENT DEDICATED TO ALL THEM LASTS TWO MINUTES.



jonoaries said:


> Historically speaking, if TV ratings mattered HBK wouldn't have amounted to anything beyond his first title run. Diesel, Bret Hart, etc they had trouble being TV draws and even some attendance failures but today we don't judge them based on that stupid shit. Diesel sucked as WWE champion because he produced no classic matches or moments and was champion for a year. HBK is one of the greats because he put on classics and had memorable moments, who cares what his PPV buys or Raws ratings were?
> 
> TV ratings didn't get revelant until 1997-1998 and they are basically obsolete today. Like I said people find a multitude of different reasons & ways to watch wrestling. The people who really want to see it will watch it. I, myself don't care either way.


TV is basically obsolete today? With how WWE is getting away from PPVs? With how WWE is increasingly gaining more revenue percentile from TV than from PPVs? WWE is going to basically sacrifice all of their PPVs apart from the biggest ones just to stabilize the launch of the WWE Network to gain leverage on USA. You've got to be kidding me with this notion. 

HBK and Bret WERE DRAWS. They just didn't draw as much as Stone Cold and Rock and Hogan. They were just the least drawing franchise stars in WWE history but they were still the top 1% drawing wrestlers. 

What list exactly are you talking about? Judging from the threads around here, even us niche IWC folks have varying opinions on who the superior wrestlers are after Austin/Rock/Hogan (who were the biggest draws). 



jonoaries said:


> I keep bringing up basketball because as a basketball fan all you care about is if your team wins or loses, as a wrestling fan all I care about is if my favs win or lose, PERIOD. Anything beyond that is extra.


So stop caring about who gets pushed then. Stick to arguing who WILL win at Wrestlemania, not who SHOULD win.


----------



## li/<o (Jan 18, 2009)

It was obviously true anyone that watches the WWE knows it till this date. This is my problem with Triple H guy is good in the mic great wrestler, but full of himself. This mania Triple H could of redeemed himself by building up the storyline with Triple H and Punk making Punk look strong and good. No they have to try to do again the same story where Triple H and Undertaker are supposed to fight and Triple saying he won the war when he actually lost it =/. This is why Triple H will never be in the levels of The Rock and Austin they didn't need to put people down all the time it comes natural.


----------



## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

*Goddamn, Punk is WWE champion and you people think he needs to look....better? 

What?*


----------



## Mr.S (Dec 21, 2009)

LadyCroft said:


> *Goddamn, Punk is WWE champion and you people think he needs to look....better?
> 
> What?*


In 1 word -> Yes

HHH was completely un-necessary in that feud. Besides I cant believe Hunter literally buried the whole roster with the crowd booing them all. That was an absolute SHIT storyline.


----------



## Theproof (Apr 9, 2009)

This is funny to me because I went to high school with Lin and he was actually in my econ class. Never expected him to get this far in his basketball career.


----------



## Phenom (Oct 17, 2002)

HHH didn't bury Punk, just like the Undertaker didn't bury Punk a few years ago. I wish the marks could just accept this.

In the Undertaker's case, Punk was punished for shooting his mouth off. In HHH's case, it was simply a storyline that unfortunately didn't work out.

As another poster said, Punk's momentum took a nose dive when he arrived back at the WWE way too early. It extinguished all the fire in the angle in one fell swoop.


----------



## Gunner14 (Aug 25, 2009)

Forit said:


> Maybe Bill simmons needs to realize the moment punk returned to wwe,within a week, all his momentum was gone. HHH was the one who kept it going by feuding with him.


This.

Punk should have been gone for a while doing the random appearances anywhere but the WWE with the WWE title.

Hulk hogan summed this angle when he was talking about how fast the wrestling buisness moves now. They did what should have lasted 3 months in a week and that is what killed Cm Punk.

The fued with HHH actually kept Punk relevant a little while longer.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 3, 2011)

Theproof said:


> This is funny to me because I went to high school with Lin and he was actually in my econ class. Never expected him to get this far in his basketball career.


Do you have Theproof to show for that?


----------



## Jobbin'likenoother (Jun 1, 2011)

BTNH said:


> I keep hearing how HHH squashed Punk's momentum a year or two ago but never understood. I had stopped watching back then. Can anyone fill me in on what happened?


UNDERTAKER squashed punk's Momentum in 2009.

2011 Punk's momentum was squashed by WWE bringing him back too early, but further snuffed out by their botching the whole post-Summerslam storyline thanks to Nash declaring himself ring-fit when he wasn't.


----------



## adprokid (Mar 9, 2011)

i laughed so hard last monday when HBK said to H " You are the man who step on Throats " because its true.


----------



## Lm2 (Feb 18, 2008)

to everyone bitching about Triple H you guys must be under the age of 15, so you did not see trips in the orignal dx and i dont mean on youtube, you guys love CM Punk so much likes hes a god or something, first off yes he is over with the crowd but to say he was over almost as much as austin is not even close , plus cena, batista, edge, Brock lesnar, Kurt angle say hello to cm punks fan base as they were all bigger then his peak, IWC get off CM Punks nuts hes good but he deffintely isnt the best in the world, without guys the old guys wwe wouldnt be where it is today


----------



## Majesty (Feb 7, 2012)

legendmaker2 said:


> to everyone bitching about Triple H you guys must be under the age of 15, so you did not see trips in the orignal dx and i dont mean on youtube, you guys love CM Punk so much likes hes a god or something, first off yes he is over with the crowd but to say he was over almost as much as austin is not even close , plus cena, batista, edge, Brock lesnar, Kurt angle say hello to cm punks fan base as they were all bigger then his peak, IWC get off CM Punks nuts hes good but he deffintely isnt the best in the world, without guys the old guys wwe wouldnt be where it is today




Alright ending that statement here. 

When HBK was at the top of his game with DX and being anti-establishment. You could not find ANYONE that truly deserved to go over him that could hold the spot like he did, and when they found someone that could it was Stone Cold Steve Austin and the rest from then on was history. 


However in Triple H's reign, and recently, you can find people that DO deserve to go over him that could hold a spot like he did and better, and when they are found they aren't put over when they deserve to be. That is the problem with your analogy. It's great for someone to pave a path but they also gotta know when to get off the path and let someone build on top of it. This is something Triple H can't seem to do. The last person he put over was Cena at Wrestlemania and the entire plan all along was for him to beat Cena the next year and had he not got injured he would have. He didn't so HBK got the spot instead and HE put Cena over in a great match and then won the one hour long match on Raw in a way that made neither look weak and then HBK went on to later put over Jeff Hardy CLEANLY in a great fashion which started Jeff hardy's true TRUE rise to the top. 

Shawn Michaels in his later years KNOWS hows to put young talent over even when he beats them(ask Shelton Benjamin) 

Contrast that with Triple H, who in his match with Punk had Miz and R-Truth interfere, have Kevin Nash interfere, have all this clustercrap of stuff happening and then be the one to beat Punk. WHAT IS THE POINT of having all that crap happen if Triple H was going to win? It was like watching a TNA main event, really Triple H needed to have all that crap happen just to have him beat Punk? You would think logically that all that stuff would happen so Triple H would lose. But no all that stuff happens so he can beat Punk. Tell me in what kind of logic you want to find it made sense for him to beat Punk for one, and then to beat Punk in that fashion for two. And then compare it to how HBK put over both Cena and Jeff hardy and compare the two. 

No one hates Triple H for what he did for the company in its hayday, people hate him for not being able to let it go. 

And before you say "Oh well he put Sheamus over and got 'taken out' by him." 

yeah what happened when Triple H came back and Sheamus confronted him.... 

I rest my case.


----------



## Rum4 (Feb 17, 2012)

Majesty said:


> Alright ending that statement here.
> 
> When HBK was at the top of his game with DX and being anti-establishment. You could not find ANYONE that truly deserved to go over him that could hold the spot like he did, and when they found someone that could it was Stone Cold Steve Austin and the rest from then on was history.


Nice cop out there.... couldnt find anyone lol. Shawn didnt draw shit even a the top guy unlike the case with HHH. There were plenty who could have replaced him at that spot. 

Even with austin, he refused to put him over but taker had to step in to force his ass to do it.




> However in Triple H's reign, and recently, you can find people that DO deserve to go over him that could hold a spot like he did and better, and when they are found they aren't put over when they deserve to be. That is the problem with your analogy. It's great for someone to pave a path but they also gotta know when to get off the path and let someone build on top of it. This is something Triple H can't seem to do.


Plz tell me who could have replaced HHH on top? 

HHH was the top guy because he drew money. Plz tell me the one guy who was a draw + as talented to stay on top like HHH. 





> The last person he put over was Cena at Wrestlemania and the entire plan all along was for him to beat Cena the next year and had he not got injured he would have. He didn't so HBK got the spot instead and HE put Cena over in a great match and then won the one hour long match on Raw in a way that made neither look weak


What a load of crap. Cena was to retain the title at Wrestlemania 23 against HHH. The plan was never changed, only the opponent because of the injury. 





> and then HBK went on to later put over Jeff Hardy CLEANLY in a great fashion which started Jeff hardy's true TRUE rise to the top.
> 
> Shawn Michaels in his later years KNOWS hows to put young talent over even when he beats them(ask Shelton Benjamin)



and Lol @ at this crap. I am sorry to break it to ya but shawn putting somoene over doesnt make them a star because shawn was not a top guy neither was he a top draw. 

HHH putting over someone makes them legit. Even a loss against HHH in a main event program is bigger than win against the upper midcarder shawn micheals.




> No one hates Triple H for what he did for the company in its hayday, people hate him for not being able to let it go.


BS and Should HHH care that a bunch irrelevant marks hate him? 



> And before you say "Oh well he put Sheamus over and got 'taken out' by him."
> 
> yeah what happened when Triple H came back and Sheamus confronted him....
> 
> I rest my case.



It happened because HHH had to close the rivalry with sheamus to move on with taker for mania. Kevin dunn was burying sheamus brutally even before HHH returned in 2011.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

A clean win over Michaels is a big deal, he was always main event guy who can wrestle in every position in the card with every wrestler on the roster, same thing with Angle. Upper midcarder? lol, And a clean win over HHH is big most of the time because he will put over only the guys who WWE want to invest in them, not because the fans can't see a guy on top because he doesn't beat HHH, He also lost to Shelton.


----------



## Rum4 (Feb 17, 2012)

Rock316AE said:


> A clean win over Michaels is a big deal, he was always main event guy who can wrestle in every position in the card with every wrestler on the roster, same thing with Angle. Upper midcarder? lol, And a clean win over HHH is big most of the time because he will put over only the guys who WWE want to invest in them, not because the fans can't see a guy on top because he doesn't beat HHH, He also lost to Shelton.


Nah it isnt. It would have been big for anyone who beat micheals in 1997 not the shawn who found god. Michaels, much like jericho, is not the guy that can MAKE someone. Triple h is. 

yes HHH lost to shelton and that was the height of shelton's career. That was the only time people cared about him.


----------



## Majesty (Feb 7, 2012)

Rum4 said:


> Nice cop out there.... couldnt find anyone lol. Shawn didnt draw shit even a the top guy unlike the case with HHH. There were plenty who could have replaced him at that spot.


Name one that could have taken Shawn Michaels spot when he was at the top. 



> Even with austin, he refused to put him over but taker had to step in to force his ass to do it.


His injury to his back had nothing to do with it then? 




> Plz tell me who could have replaced HHH on top?
> 
> HHH was the top guy because he drew money. Plz tell me the one guy who was a draw + as talented to stay on top like HHH.


Let's see, recently someone Triple H should have put over that could take his place at the top was CM Punk. 

But if we go back then? Want me to name one that could take the top spot? Chris Jericho. And people he should have put over? Mick Foley. 




> What a load of crap. Cena was to retain the title at Wrestlemania 23 against HHH. The plan was never changed, only the opponent because of the injury.


That why when Triple H came back first thing he did was beat Cena at the Wrestlemania rematch they had? 




> and Lol @ at this crap. I am sorry to break it to ya but shawn putting somoene over doesnt make them a star because shawn was not a top guy neither was he a top draw.


He wasn't? Really? Tell me who outdrew Shawn Michaels when he was the top guy? You can spout off at the mouth about how little Shawn Michaels drew in his hayday but who exactly in the WWF could have outdrawn what he did? Name one please. The one person that could(Stone Cold) is the guy who went over him, once again my point is rested. 

And Shelton and Jeff Hardy both became bigger stars and when Shawn put them over. WWE dropped the ball with Shelton and didn't with Jeff Hardy. Fact of the matter is Shawn put them over in GREAT ways cleanly. Yes cleanly. Shawn also put over Orton during his time which got Orton over even more as a heel AND he even lost the feud with him. to act like all that means nothing means you're trying to belittle something that was a big deal because you want your argument to look stronger. Neither works against me. Shelton was a bigger star after his loss to Shawn Michaels and afterwards when HBK said Benjamin was the "greatest young talent he's ever faced" it was WWE that dropped the ball with him by making him a crybaby afterwards and pairing him up with Big Momma. 



> HHH putting over someone makes them legit. Even a loss against HHH in a main event program is bigger than win against the upper midcarder shawn micheals.


"Upper midcarder" Shawn Michaels did a better job putting over people than HHH did when he was a main event guy. Not to mention HBK wasn't afraid of ultimately losing a feud against someone. You sound like a Triple H mark who fails to use logic. 




> It happened because HHH had to close the rivalry with sheamus to move on with taker for mania. Kevin dunn was burying sheamus brutally even before HHH returned in 2011.


Really, and closing the rivalry with someone that puts you out for a year is having them run out, ultimately destroy them and slam them through a table like they are nothing. You're seriously defending how he closed his rivalry with Sheamus? 

I don't think anything needs to be said.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Not every program is to "make" someone, You said that a clean win over the protected legend HBK is nothing and it's obviously BS. HHH made only one guy in his career, Batista in a great program. Shelton was over big years after HHH as the IC champion and in the MITB matches.


----------



## Fabregas (Jan 15, 2007)

Edit- Nvm just read all the other posts.

Anyway, I have to agree with Bill.

Chances are the only reason Triple H is doing his current rematch feud with the Undertaker is because Shawn did it and it was really popular.


----------



## Rum4 (Feb 17, 2012)

Majesty said:


> Name one that could have taken Shawn Michaels spot when he was at the top.


Shawn did not draw as the top guy. Anyone who was at his level could have easily replaced him. Shawn stayed on top because he is vince's favorite (still to this day).



> His injury to his back had nothing to do with it then?


*4:53*









> Let's see, recently someone Triple H should have put over that could take his place at the top was CM Punk.


WTF are you talking about? Punk is still the top guy. He is the current WWE champion.

Punk taking HHH's place in 2011? Are you out of your mind? HHH is semi-retired, cena is the top guy.




> But if we go back then? Want me to name one that could take the top spot? Chris Jericho.


This is why i specifically said "A Guy who drew money". Try again!



> And people he should have put over? Mick Foley.


FAIL.





> That why when Triple H came back first thing he did was beat Cena at the Wrestlemania rematch they had?


Triple h RETAINED the title at Night of champions. He did not beat cena to become the new champion.


HHH even tapped out to cena in Elimination chamber 2010. Go watch it!




> He wasn't? Really? Tell me who outdrew Shawn Michaels when he was the top guy? You can spout off at the mouth about how little Shawn Michaels drew in his hayday but who exactly in the WWF could have outdrawn what he did? Name one please. The one person that could(Stone Cold) is the guy who went over him, once again my point is rested.


Shawn never drew as the top guy. PERIOD! WWF was going down because of shawn micheals.

I posted the video proof taker confirming that shawn refuse to put austin over but taker made him his bitch backstage. 




> And Shelton and Jeff Hardy both became bigger stars and when Shawn put them over. WWE dropped the ball with Shelton and didn't with Jeff Hardy. Fact of the matter is Shawn put them over in GREAT ways cleanly. Yes cleanly. Shawn also put over Orton during his time which got Orton over even more as a heel AND he even lost the feud with him. to act like all that means nothing means you're trying to belittle something that was a big deal because you want your argument to look stronger. Neither works against me. Shelton was a bigger star after his loss to Shawn Michaels and afterwards when HBK said Benjamin was the "greatest young talent he's ever faced" it was WWE that dropped the ball with him by making him a crybaby afterwards and pairing him up with Big Momma.


fail after fail. You are just a huge hbk mark who refuses to understand the reality. Triple h putting over someone and shawn putting over someone is just not the same. 

Height of Shelton benjamin's popularity was the he beat HHH not shawn micheals. I am talking in regards to casual fans here which you simply refuse to understand. 




> "Upper midcarder" Shawn Michaels did a better job putting over people than HHH did when he was a main event guy. Not to mention HBK wasn't afraid of ultimately losing a feud against someone. You sound like a Triple H mark who fails to use logic.


What spot? his spot as the upper midcarder? Well that makes sense.





> Really, and closing the rivalry with someone that puts you out for a year is having them run out, ultimately destroy them and slam them through a table like they are nothing. You're seriously defending how he closed his rivalry with Sheamus?
> 
> I don't think anything needs to be said.


as i said before Kevin dunn was burying sheamus even before HHH returned. HHH-taker barely had a month to build. Taker's character does not allow him to build a feud the way his ABA character would have. Someone had to do it, HHH did with his pedigree on sheamus. 

Again why do you assume it was HHH who demanded he "bury" sheamus with the pedigree? HHH MADE sheamus.


----------



## Rum4 (Feb 17, 2012)

Rock316AE said:


> Not every program is to "make" someone, You said that a clean win over the protected legend HBK is nothing and it's obviously BS. HHH made only one guy in his career, Batista in a great program. Shelton was over big years after HHH as the IC champion and in the MITB matches.


I did not say a win over shawn means nothing, i said a win over him does not MAKE someone a "STAR" as the poster was suggesting. 

You do realize creating a BABYFACE TOP DRAW is significantly tougher job than say putting over a heel in a match right? My point was simple, beating HHH is much much bigger than beating the upper mid carder shawn micheals. 

I said it before height of Shelton's career was going over HHH, just like chris benoit when he made HHH tap out at mania.


----------



## Majesty (Feb 7, 2012)

Rum4 said:


> Shawn did not draw as the top guy. Anyone who was at his level could have easily replaced him. Shawn stayed on top because he is vince's favorite (still to this day).


You avoided my question. Who could have outdrew HBK at the time in the WWF when he was the top guy? You're still ignoring the question which means you have no answer and your argument was debunked. 





> WTF are you talking about? Punk is still the top guy. He is the current WWE champion.
> 
> Punk taking HHH's place in 2011? Are you out of your mind? HHH is semi-retired, cena is the top guy.


Not as big as he would have been if Triple H had put him over. I love how you go against what you said earlier when you said "triple H putting you over makes you legit" and then you try to defend Triple H not putting him over, and when you say HHH is semi retired and stuff, which is all the more reason why he should have put Punk over. Your argument is starting to turn on itself.




> This is why i specifically said "A Guy who drew money". Try again!


And that's why I specifically said Chris Jericho. YOU try again. 



> FAIL.


yet you offer no counter argument whatsoever because you don't have on apparently.




> Triple h RETAINED the title at Night of champions. He did not beat cena to become the new champion.


Fact is, he won the feud. And here's another name Triple H didn't put over at Wrestlemania when he was the hot commodity at the time and this was recent... Randy Orton  And by that time fans were so tired of it that when Orton finally DID beat Triple H the crowd chanted "Nah nah nah nah hey hey hey goodbye" to him. And he was supposed to be the face of the feud. Why do you ignore what everyone else has seen happen to the point the crowd has turned on him more than once? 




> Shawn never drew as the top guy. PERIOD! WWF was going down because of shawn micheals.


You are NOT ANSWERING MY QUESTION!! Who in the WWF could have outdrew Shawn Michaels during this time. You keep running off at the mouth trying to avoid the question because you have absolutely no answer. Your debating skills are weak and your avoiding of questions after making bold claims only shows it more and more. 




> fail after fail. You are just a huge hbk mark who refuses to understand the reality. Triple h putting over someone and shawn putting over someone is just not the same.
> 
> Height of Shelton benjamin's popularity was the he beat HHH not shawn micheals. I am talking in regards to casual fans here which you simply refuse to understand.


Actually you're wrong. And hewas popular for a good week before he broke his hand. When he came back it was JERICHO that put him over for the IC title which REALLY started his rise. He then pretty much reached a midground during that reign, hot and cold till carlito beat him. It WASN'T until Shawn Michaels and him had that match that his popularity started skyrocketing again. 

You seriously give too much credit to Triple H for Shelton's ruse but completely ignore the hand Jericho and HBK had in it, for shame man..for shame. 

Dude obviously you are intent to not even answer my questions when you constantly avoid my question of who could have outdrew HBK in his hayday. You really are weak at arguing, you should 'fail' and just run off at your mouth while providing absolutely nothing at your main arguments. the reason is simply because you have no counter argument to the question I asked, and until you do you aren't gonna win this debate nor your argument. Come back when you're more mature and less of a Triple H mark that ignore everything else around it.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

A win over HHH also doesn't make a star unless it's in a huge program like Batista. Again, Michaels was always a main event wrestler no matter where he is on the card, he could have been 20 times champion if he wanted to wrestle a full schedule. Shelton was even more over in 2005 than 2004 after WM21 and the huge spots he did there, not because he beat HHH on a random RAW so I don't see your point. Benoit was also over huge long before he even went to RAW for a feud with HHH, fans saw him as a credible main eventer years before 2004 and wanted to see him wins the big one out of respect for all the years he gave them 100%, so again you're trying to give HHH credit for no reason.


----------



## Rum4 (Feb 17, 2012)

@majesty 
fpalm I am not going to waste my time anymore. You clearly dont Understand how the business works in perspective of the casual fans.

@Rock316AE

Plz answer this simple question : Why is john cena a 10 time world champion but Shawn/jericho are not?


----------



## Majesty (Feb 7, 2012)

Rum4 said:


> @majesty
> fpalm I am not going to waste my time anymore. You clearly dont Understand how the business works in perspective of the casual fans.


That means you're bailing out cause you can't answer one simple question or make a viable counter argument. Goodbye then  



> @Rock316AE
> 
> Plz answer this simple question : Why is john cena a 10 time world champion but Shawn/jericho are not?


lol you think Multiple Title reigns nowadays means anything :lmao


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Multiple world titles mean nothing. HHH has more than three times the world titles HBK does, does that mean HHH is three times better than him? Not even close to it.

It's easy to say HBK wasn't a draw at that period of time btw, but the fact is he was the only one they had. I think Vince certainly preferred whatever Shawn was bringing in than, I dunno, _zero_.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I like the current debate of HBK's drawing ability, I watched all those years and HBK was THEE MAN.
However the E was on a slide during this time. So let's use some process of elimination to predict who could have outdrawn HBK:

The roster of 1996 as I remember it:
HBK
Bulldog
Undertaker
Vader
Yokozuna
Owen
Bret
Steve Austin
Justin "Hawk" Bradshaw
Savio Vega
Mankind
Goldust 
Marc Mero
Hunter Hearst Helmsley
Sid
Jake Roberts
Jerry Lawler
Ultimate Warrior
Ahmed Johnson
Faarooq

Okay I'll stop there because those are all the low-mid-upper-card to main event guys (sans tag teams). 
Now using elimination who could have outdrawn Shawn?


----------



## Rum4 (Feb 17, 2012)

greendayedgehead said:


> Multiple world titles mean nothing. HHH has more than three times the world titles HBK does, does that mean HHH is three times better than him? Not even close to it.
> 
> It's easy to say HBK wasn't a draw at that period of time btw, but the fact is he was the only one they had. I think Vince certainly preferred whatever Shawn was bringing in than, I dunno, _zero_.


I did not mean that at all. I am not an idiot to claim HHH or cena is better than anyone because they have had more title reigns.

The general rule is professional wrestling is that the TOP DRAW gets to be the champion. The World championship always ends up with the guy who draws the most viewers to the product. The spotlight will always be on the top draw and this is something IWC fails to understand and as a result they end up hating on the top guy. 

This is the reason Austin became 6 time world champion in under three years. Same with Hogan,Flair,HHH, Cena etc... They were champions because they drew money. The IWC mentality is that the most talented superstar should be on top which is not the case. Pro-wrestling does not work that way. 

Talent =/= Main event.
Draw = Main event. 

Shawn is/was Vince's favorite superstar. He did not draw money as the top guy.


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## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

It's a known fact that Michaels could have been 20 times champion by now if he wanted to work full time with house shows and media. But like he said himself, he doesn't want it and doesn't need it. Besides that, the "title" is worthless today.


----------



## Majesty (Feb 7, 2012)

jonoaries said:


> I like the current debate of HBK's drawing ability, I watched all those years and HBK was THEE MAN.
> However the E was on a slide during this time. So let's use some process of elimination to predict who could have outdrawn HBK:
> 
> The roster of 1996 as I remember it:
> ...



Rum is NEVER gonna answer that question lol he likes to talk big but you ask him to show you something to validate his argument he will avoid the question like the plague.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

What's the reaction going to be like when we see 19-1 at the end of WrestleMania this year?


----------



## Samoon (Feb 18, 2012)

Razor King said:


> What's the reaction going to be like when we see 19-1 at the end of WrestleMania this year?


i doubt it will happen tbh.


----------



## Schrute_Farms (Nov 27, 2009)

When people say Punk ''reached a level of popularity not seen since Austin'' are you kidding me? Among online fans and his hometown of Chicago sure but Stone Cold Steve Austin was known world wide, is CM Punk? hell no not a chance no way what a joke.

Punk had a great few weeks but that's all it was. He's not a big draw, he's not selling out arenas or increasing buy rates or anything. He IS NOT popular outside of a select group of fans who ALREADY watch wrestling.


----------



## The Host (Feb 15, 2012)

Zack ryder is more popular than CM Punk. 'nuff said.


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## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

Seeing as how I resolved the previous anomaly in this thread, on to the next one. 

HBK was a draw. He is still a draw in today's time. WM23 and WM26 should've proven that. The high ratings he gets should've proven that. He was one of the worst drawing franchise stars in WWE's corporate history, but as some people said, there was no one more worthy to take his place at that time. Undertaker, Austin and HHH would've been better suited except that they were still early in their career and didn't have the star power that HBK and Bret had at that time.


----------



## azhkz (Jan 3, 2012)

Someone here said that Jericho could have replaced HHH during AE ... What a load of crap ... HHH was a far bigger draw than jericho was in AE go read some meltzer report. Only Rock & Austin were better than HHH as a draw. Even during 2002 when there was no Rock or Austin, HHH was the top guy as a draw and talent as far as y2j is concerned he never outdraw HHH even when he was a face lets say in 2000. So its bullsh#t to say that y2j could have easily replaced hhh anytime in the past history or even in the present.


----------



## Schrute_Farms (Nov 27, 2009)

When Triple H became the top draw was when arenas started being dimly lit and the upper decks started being tarped off.

I'm a Triple H fan btw but I can admit he didn't fill seats the way Austin and Rock did.


----------



## Annihilus (Jun 30, 2010)

I agree 100% with the original post.. The feud between Cena and CM Punk was red hot leading up to and following MITB, Raw became must-see-TV for the first time in a long time..then as soon as HHH booked himself into it, it was completely deflated. We still never got what we wanted either: Cena turning heel during the Punk feud and getting Vince's help to win the title back, that's what should've happened, not HHH jumping into the feud.


----------



## Schrute_Farms (Nov 27, 2009)

Annihilus said:


> I agree 100% with the original post.. The feud between Cena and CM Punk was red hot leading up to and following MITB, Raw became must-see-TV for the first time in a long time..then as soon as HHH booked himself into it, it was completely deflated. We still never got what we wanted either: Cena turning heel during the Punk feud and getting Vince's help to win the title back, that's what should've happened, not HHH jumping into the feud.


He really did ruin the feud. It's like he sat there thinking wow this is so hot right now I need to be a part of it and I'll get my old washed up buddy back to because we can still be the stars of the show.

There's no debating it, HHH wrecked that whole storyline.


----------



## snuggiedawg (Nov 29, 2011)

HHH was just returning after a year of being out, cmpunk was wanting to be a bitch and quit cause he wasn't getting the push or money he deserves. I'm glad hhh did that


----------



## azhkz (Jan 3, 2012)

And how do you know that HHH injected himself into the feud and it was not Vince's decision? Everything filters through Vince remember? He is not the person who can be pushed around even if you happen to be his own son. There is no legit proof to believe that HHH got himself in the storyline and all your speculations and claims against HHH will get discarded and thrown out of the window if it was some court of law.


----------



## wintersun1 (Apr 27, 2011)

Schrute_Farms said:


> He really did ruin the feud. It's like he sat there thinking wow this is so hot right now I need to be a part of it and I'll get my old washed up buddy back to because we can still be the stars of the show.
> 
> There's no debating it, HHH wrecked that whole storyline.


Yep... who the hell approved how that storyline played out?


HHH - "I'll cut a bunch of promos on this white hot rising star to try and quell his thunder, then I'll beat him in the main event of a PPV"


The worst part was the segments between Punk and HHH were supposed to blur the line between storyline and reality, to make Punk (the person, not the character) look like a bad guy on and off-camera


----------



## Joel Anthony (Jan 25, 2012)

Aahahahaha Bill Simmons droppin' knowledge


----------



## Majesty (Feb 7, 2012)

Schrute_Farms said:


> He really did ruin the feud. It's like he sat there thinking wow this is so hot right now I need to be a part of it and I'll get my old washed up buddy back to because we can still be the stars of the show.
> 
> There's no debating it, HHH wrecked that whole storyline.



Here is the thing, if Triple H when he feuded with CM punk had cut promos like "THIS COMPANY.. IT'S MINE!! NO MATTER HOW YOU COMPLAINED I GOT IT! I CHOOSE WHO COMES AND WHO GOES HERE! I CHOOSE WHO MAIN EVENTS WRESTLEMANIA AND WHO STAYS ON SUPERSTARS TILL THEY ARE FORGOTTEN! AND IF I WANTED TO I COULD FIRE YOU! But you're a commodity, and whether you like it or not YOU WORK FOR ME, YOU MAKE MONEY FOR ME, That 'Best in the World' Shirt you wear.. I GET GET THAT CHECK, AND YOU WILL RESPECT ME AND MY POSITION IN THIS COMPANY OR I CAN MAKE SURE THAT PIPE BOMB IN YOUR HAND NEVER GOES OFF! AND ALL THESE PEOPLE YOU CLAIM GOT LET GO OF HERE?? THEY COULDN'T CUT IT, THE ZACK RYDERS, THE COLD COBANA'S, THE MICK FOLEY, NOBODY WANTED TO SEE THEM, YOU KNOW WHO THEY WANT TO SEE? ME... SEE WHEN YOU'VE BEEN FUTURE ENDEAVORED I WILL STILL BE HERE WHETHER THEY LOVE ME OR HATE ME, I'LL STILL BE HERE BECAUSE THIS COMPANY..IS MINE!! I RUN THIS PLACE AND I DON'T GIVE A DAMN WHAT YOU OR THESE PEOPLE THINK! I didn't care then..and I don't care now." 


See if during that feud Triple H's promos were more like that and he played the asshole Corporate heel that doesn't want to give young wrestlers a shot over the name commodities and CM Punk beating him and proving him wrong as one of "those guys" that would never make it, it would have made the feud and the payoff THAT much better.


----------



## Schrute_Farms (Nov 27, 2009)

Majesty said:


> Here is the thing, if Triple H when he feuded with CM punk had cut promos like "THIS COMPANY.. IT'S MINE!! NO MATTER HOW YOU COMPLAINED I GOT IT! I CHOOSE WHO COMES AND WHO GOES HERE! I CHOOSE WHO MAIN EVENTS WRESTLEMANIA AND WHO STAYS ON SUPERSTARS TILL THEY ARE FORGOTTEN! AND IF I WANTED TO I COULD FIRE YOU! But you're a commodity, and whether you like it or not YOU WORK FOR ME, YOU MAKE MONEY FOR ME, That 'Best in the World' Shirt you wear.. I GET GET THAT CHECK, AND YOU WILL RESPECT ME AND MY POSITION IN THIS COMPANY OR I CAN MAKE SURE THAT PIPE BOMB IN YOUR HAND NEVER GOES OFF! AND ALL THESE PEOPLE YOU CLAIM GOT LET GO OF HERE?? THEY COULDN'T CUT IT, THE ZACK RYDERS, THE COLD COBANA'S, THE MICK FOLEY, NOBODY WANTED TO SEE THEM, YOU KNOW WHO THEY WANT TO SEE? ME... SEE WHEN YOU'VE BEEN FUTURE ENDEAVORED I WILL STILL BE HERE WHETHER THEY LOVE ME OR HATE ME, I'LL STILL BE HERE BECAUSE THIS COMPANY..IS MINE!! I RUN THIS PLACE AND I DON'T GIVE A DAMN WHAT YOU OR THESE PEOPLE THINK! I didn't care then..and I don't care now."
> 
> 
> See if during that feud Triple H's promos were more like that and he played the asshole Corporate heel that doesn't want to give young wrestlers a shot over the name commodities and CM Punk beating him and proving him wrong as one of "those guys" that would never make it, it would have made the feud and the payoff THAT much better.


Yeah I agree, his character didn't fit that feud at all and there was no proper payoff. It could have been great though if it was like you said.


----------



## holt_hogan (Jun 28, 2011)

Schrute_Farms said:


> When Triple H became the top draw was when arenas started being dimly lit and the upper decks started being tarped off.
> 
> I'm a Triple H fan btw but I can admit he didn't fill seats the way Austin and Rock did.


I disagree with this, when HHH was at the top of his 'game' in 2000, Raw did great ratings throughout that year and he was the top heel at the time. Austin and Taker were also out for 6 months at the time.


----------



## Kurt 'Olympic Gold (Jul 6, 2006)

Just another biased (internet) report from people who think they know all the insides of the business. HHH is a legend who has deserved his spot and doesn't get enough credit from media like these. That being said, it's obvious I disagree with such reports as I am a fan of HHH for all the great things he's done for this business.


----------



## Majesty (Feb 7, 2012)

Schrute_Farms said:


> Yeah I agree, his character didn't fit that feud at all and there was no proper payoff. It could have been great though if it was like you said.


He wanted to remain protected as a "face" and it hurt the feud extremely.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So much ignorance in this thread. I'm not exactly shocked lol.


----------



## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

The guy who said HHH "owes" Punk a win is a F#@F#SDF moron. By that logic Benoit, Cena, Undertaker, Ultimate Warrior, Batista, and Shelton Benjamin all "owe" HHH a win too. Trips never "got back his win" on any of those guys.

It is NOT common practice for main eventers to take turns beating each other. In fact, that almost never happens. One guy wins, one guy loses. HHH beat Punk. End of story. Quit whining.

Besides, if HHH had lost that match he would have not won a single match in 2011. If he can't win a single match for an entire year, how can he look like a credible opponent for the Undertaker.


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

Schrute_Farms said:


> When Triple H became the top draw was when arenas started being dimly lit and the upper decks started being tarped off.
> 
> I'm a Triple H fan btw but I can admit he didn't fill seats the way Austin and Rock did.


Nobody filled the seats like those two. I think HHH did pretty well on his own though.


----------



## faceface (Dec 15, 2010)

EnglishWrestling said:


> Besides, if HHH had lost that match he would have not won a single match in 2011. If he can't win a single match for an entire year, how can he look like a credible opponent for the Undertaker.


By being Triple H. Don't be silly. 

And Triple H doesn't owe Punk a victory because Punk took a loss, he owes him one because it's fucking stupid not to give him one. One of them has an in-ring future, the other does not.

They never should have met. That's really the only solution to everything. Whoever decided they should was a fucking moron that day.


----------



## Zeus85 (Jan 31, 2012)

LMAo GET EM


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

EnglishWrestling said:


> *The guy who said HHH "owes" Punk a win is a F#@F#SDF moron. By that logic Benoit, Cena, Undertaker, Ultimate Warrior, Batista, and Shelton Benjamin all "owe" HHH a win too. Trips never "got back his win" on any of those guys.*
> 
> *It is NOT common practice for main eventers to take turns beating each other. In fact, that almost never happens. One guy wins, one guy loses.* HHH beat Punk. End of story. Quit whining.
> 
> Besides, if HHH had lost that match he would have not won a single match in 2011. If he can't win a single match for an entire year, how can he look like a credible opponent for the Undertaker.


1- that's a damn lie. Trips has beat most of those guys before in one way or another. Only Batista got away without giving H a win (to my knowledge) and Warrior was in 96 when H was a jobber so your argument is invalid. 

2-it Is common practice. Case in point: angle beats hbk at wm21, then hbk beats angle at vengeance 05.
Taker beats orton at wm21, then orton beats taker at summerslam 05 AND no mercy 05 (that's 2 straight wins) before losing the hiac match. 
HBK and Bret Hart argued back and forth about the lack of faith in jobbing to each other. Bret felt HBK OWED him a job at WM13 which HBK welched on by "losing his smile". Undertaker gave Lesnar a clean job in a hiac match and Lesnar bolted before taker got his win over him and he's still pissed about it. H jobbed to Cena at WM22 and soon as he was able came back and beat Cena. HBK gave Cena a win at WM23 and then Cena returned the favor in the 1hr match on Raw. 

It doesn't always happen, but its fairly common for main eventers to trade wins over each other. Austin didn't need to wrestle at WM19 but he did the job to the Rock because he wanted to and because Rock jobbed to him at WM twice. 

I usually don't respond to trolls but I feel that you needed to be schooled. Consider yourself owned.


----------



## whitty982000 (Sep 15, 2006)

Triple H is fucking overrated and bland. Jim Cornette said it perfectly when he said that "Triple H is the guy who faces the super over guys(Rock, Austin, Cena, Punk)" He acts like he is some mega draw when no one could really give two shits. 2000 to mid 2001 was when he only really mattered.


----------



## Romanista (Jul 13, 2011)

1. Punk was super over back then.

2. Triple H jumped in, share the spotlight from Punk.

3. defeated CM Punk in a match for no reason.

4. H got booed because of a feud with Punk.

5. oh no! I don't want to get booed! *just booked CM Punk to be my friend!* (ruined Punk momentum & character)

6. start a feud with Kevin Nash and no one give a shit.

7. now he thinks he's a living legend and deserve the 3rd match with Undertaker at Mania.


----------



## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

faceface said:


> By being Triple H. Don't be silly.


Don't be stupid. It wouldn't matter who he is if he hadn't won a single match since 2010, when we're in 2012. Taker needs a credible opponent as he tries to go to 20-0. Not a guy who hasn't won a match in two years. Might as well put him in with The Funkasaurus. At least he's won matches in 2012.


----------



## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

jonoaries said:


> 1- that's a damn lie. Trips has beat most of those guys before in one way or another. Only Batista got away without giving H a win (to my knowledge) and Warrior was in 96 when H was a jobber so your argument is invalid.


Nope. HHH never got his win back over Benoit. Never got his win back in a meaningful match (title match or PPV match) over Cena. Never got his win back over Undertaker (and still won't at WM). Never even got his win back over Shelton Benjamin.

If I'm lying, prove me wrong, and provide links or details to the specific matches where HHH got back his win over all these guys. 




> Bret felt HBK OWED him a job at WM13


Of course that's what Bret felt. It doesn't mean he actually did owe him anything. He didn't.




> H jobbed to Cena at WM22 and soon as he was able came back and beat Cena.


In a meaningless RAW match for no title.



> I usually don't respond to trolls


Funny thing to say, seeing as how you're an idiotic troll yourself.



> Consider yourself owned.


More lies.


----------



## Dark_Raiden (Feb 14, 2009)

EnglishWrestling said:


> Nope. HHH never got his win back over Benoit. Never got his win back in a meaningful match (title match or PPV match) over Cena. Never got his win back over Undertaker (and still won't at WM). Never even got his win back over Shelton Benjamin.
> 
> If I'm lying, prove me wrong, and provide links or details to the specific matches where HHH got back his win over all these guys.


Shelton:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7TPr5oNQfk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrLsgCrneds

Cena: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfRjkHYv7F4

Taker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnGIw_o1YMI

Benoit:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysRBWOFwe0M&feature=related


----------



## Spinferno (Apr 4, 2011)

VS. Nash - Win - TLC
VS. Miz & Truth - Loss - Vengeance (Punk takes pin)
VS. Punk - Win - Night Of Champions
VS. Undertaker - Loss - Wrestlemania XXVII (Taker taken out on stretcher - HHH walks out)

These are the results of HHH's PPV matches from last year alone. For a guy that was only part-time, he really didn't want to look weak. His involvement didn't really help the business in any impactful way. It just gives more reason for people to believe that all he wanted to do was stroke his ego.


----------



## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

*I'm not reading through all these pages, but has anyone explained to me how some idiots opinion "absolutely destroys" HHH? If so please point out the post. If not I'm closing this garbage. I'll give you an hour.*


----------



## Majesty (Feb 7, 2012)

LadyCroft said:


> *I'm not reading through all these pages, but has anyone explained to me how some idiots opinion "absolutely destroys" HHH? If so please point out the post. If not I'm closing this garbage. I'll give you an hour.*



What is a wrestling forum if not a bunch of opinions and debates about things? Especially about the opinion of a column and such.


----------



## Romanista (Jul 13, 2011)

Majesty said:


> What is a wrestling forum if not a bunch of opinions and debates about things? Especially about the opinion of a column and such.


LOL you can't say negative opinion about babyface wrestlers.

a lot of CM Punk and Triple H threads got locked.


----------



## D.M.N. (Apr 26, 2008)

The problem is that the Punk storyline was destroyed the night after Money in the Bank when Vince was relieved of his duties because you knew Punk would come back the following week.

What would have been wrong with the following:

- MITB: as real life, Punk beats Cena
- SummerSlam: Cena beats Rey for the 'fake' WWE title; Punk returns and stares down at Cena
- feud through the fall with Rock being announced as referee at Survivor Series
- Survivor Series: Cena vs Punk w/ Rock as special referee
- Rock screws Cena to end the Cena/Punk feud; Punk wins
- Cena moves onto Rock/Kane (as real life); Punk moves onto Jericho (as real life, except in my version Jericho would have won the 'Rumble)
- BUT Punk is screwed out of WWE title at 'Mania 29 by Vince as a result of what happened at MITB between the two (Vince hired Jericho to prove to Punk he is not the Best in the World)

Nothing wrong with that, and all logical - which is the most important thing. And no Triple H either. Laurinitis/HHH could still have happened alongside that in a different storyline (and definitely different to how it played out in real-life) but there was no need for Punk to get involved in that too.

Unfortunately they brought Punk back early to try and 'pop' a buyrate a failed, they should have held him off - grew anticipation ready for his big return.


----------



## CNB (Oct 8, 2006)

LadyCroft said:


> *I'm not reading through all these pages, but has anyone explained to me how some idiots opinion "absolutely destroys" HHH? If so please point out the post. If not I'm closing this garbage. I'll give you an hour.*


Well basically an ESPN commentator made a strong claim that Triple H is an attention seeking, ego feeding, bad for business - selfish performer that injected himself into a storyline with CM Punk solely to build his own legacy. 

I think its unnecessary to close a thread where discussion is taking place. I mean it's a wrestling forum and its stayed on topic.


----------



## DualShock (Jan 9, 2012)

Romanista said:


> 1. Punk was super over back then.
> 
> 2. Triple H jumped in, share the spotlight from Punk.
> 
> ...


You can argue about the 6 other things but #7 is spot on and also you got repped because it`s true.
Remember the slammy awards 2011 and the OMG award where CM Punk was nominated because he walked out with the title @Money in the bank and Triple H made himself the winner and gave himself the award because the OMG moment what won was Triple H giving The Undertaker the tombstone piledriver LOL
He is living in his own world and probably got a small penis because he gives himself all the titles and awards and buries people for no reason to prove he is the best.


----------



## APEX (May 26, 2011)

People have real hatred for HHH, jealous ey?

The guy is 'booked' strong because he's a legend of the WWE.
Just like Rock and Austin are always booked strong.

/


----------



## Spinferno (Apr 4, 2011)

The Rebel said:


> People have real hatred for HHH, jealous ey?
> 
> The guy is 'booked' strong because he's a legend of the WWE.
> Just like Rock and Austin are always booked strong.
> ...


I can understand the frustration of people over this scenario, because it was completely unnecessary.


----------



## Agmaster (Sep 13, 2010)

he was booked to be a legend before he earned such accolades. He wrote himself to be the bizarro version of an austin or rock, and it's been detrimental to the validity and popularity of talent that got it's start on wwe post 2003. Yeh, you got the special three. Exceptions do not rules make, and that's an entire other can of worms to discuss.


----------



## Bob the Jobber (Mar 20, 2011)

The Rebel said:


> People have real hatred for HHH, jealous ey?
> 
> The guy is 'booked' strong because he's a legend of the WWE.
> Just like Rock and Austin are always booked strong.
> ...


The question arises.. What came first, the chicken or the egg? Booked strong long enough and became a legend, or a legend that was booked strong because of it? With enough input, one effectively controls the history books.


----------



## Chibi (Mar 28, 2006)

How was he destroyed? Surely its just someones opinion


----------



## PushPrimo (Jan 31, 2012)

HHH is a dick


----------



## DoubleAwesome (Oct 1, 2011)

The Rebel said:


> People have real hatred for HHH, jealous ey?
> 
> The guy is 'booked' strong because he's a legend of the WWE.
> Just like Rock and Austin are always booked strong.
> ...


They were "Booked" But HE booked HIMSELF to be the guy he is today...Did you really think that if he didn't marry Steph he would've been an 8 time WWE and 5 time WHC?? No he would've been the "Blue Blood" Jobber and would've been fired 10 years ago


----------



## Big Dog (Aug 4, 2009)

It's the problem with the WWE as a whole today, there's very little that surprises you, if you have an established star vs someone younger or less experience, all you get is rubs, you never get the younger or less experienced going on the big stars. Wade Barrett and Nexus owned Cena, they owned the WWE for a while but when it came down to it, you had Cena and Orton bury them one by one, they never truly go over, they only get a rub and rubs nowadays don't count for much. HHH is just noticeable because he's the king of the rub since he never wants anyone to be bigger than him and so rarely lets anyone go over him.


----------



## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

DoubleAwesome said:


> They were "Booked" But HE booked HIMSELF to be the guy he is today...Did you really think that if he didn't marry Steph he would've been an 8 time WWE and 5 time WHC?? No he would've been the "Blue Blood" Jobber and would've been fired 10 years ago


LOL. What an idiot. He dropped the blue blood gimmick 3 years before he started dating Steph. And he was a multiple time world champion before they started dating. And where's your proof that he would have been fired 10 years ago? Fired for what? 

You're lying.


----------



## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

Dark_Raiden said:


> Taker:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnGIw_o1YMI


LOL. That match (didn't even bother watching), was in 2000. His first WM match with Undertaker was in 2001. I asked when he GOT HIS WIN BACK. ie., when he beat Undertaker after losing to him.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

You know what HHH's problem is?

He's got a big nose. Figured I may as well make a pointless comment to join in with everyone.


----------



## DoubleAwesome (Oct 1, 2011)

EnglishWrestling said:


> LOL. What an idiot. He dropped the blue blood gimmick 3 years before he started dating Steph. And he was a multiple time world champion before they started dating. And where's your proof that he would have been fired 10 years ago? Fired for what?
> 
> You're lying.


You're a Blind Blind mark...If he didn't marry Steph would he be in every single major Storyline(except Nexus)and Be a 13..13 time WORLD champion?? I don't think so he would've been a 3-4 times World Champ but that would be it...


----------



## corfend (Jan 17, 2012)

DoubleAwesome said:


> They were "Booked" But HE booked HIMSELF to be the guy he is today...Did you really think that if he didn't marry Steph he would've been an 8 time WWE and 5 time WHC?? No he would've been the "Blue Blood" Jobber and would've been fired 10 years ago


Rather odd thing to say considering he was a 7-time world champion (I believe) before his marriage to Stephanie. And their marriage took place less than 10 years ago, so I don't see why that would factor into him not being fired at the time.


----------



## MrWalsh (Feb 21, 2010)

Chibi said:


> How was he destroyed? Surely its just someones opinion


ESPN is a global programming network. If one of its commentators is bad mouthing HHH like they would do to Terrell Owens or as Bill Simmons said comparing him to Carmelo Anthony its not a good thing.
The only way it could get worst is if they start discussing HHH's history on First Take.


----------



## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

DoubleAwesome said:


> You're a Blind Blind mark...If he didn't marry Steph would he be in every single major Storyline(except Nexus)and Be a 13..13 time WORLD champion?? I don't think so he would've been a 3-4 times World Champ but that would be it...


What is it with HHH haters and lying? It seems to be habitual.

1) I never said he would have been in every major storyline if he didn't marry Steph.

You lied.

2) I never said he would be a 13 time world champion if he didn't marry Steph.

You lied again.

I asked where the evidence was that he would have been fired 10 years ago. Fired for what? He couldn't have been fired for being too old. They have lots of guys older than him.


----------



## THANOS (Jun 20, 2006)

MrWalsh said:


> ESPN is a global programming network. If one of its commentators is bad mouthing HHH like they would do to Terrell Owens or as Bill Simmons said comparing him to Carmelo Anthony its not a good thing.
> The only way it could get worst is if they start discussing HHH's history on First Take.


Yep ESPN gets more viewers than wwe could ever of dream of getting, and this type of comment from one of their most respected and well known journalists will be heard by many, and will surely change some opinions of sports fans who knew of HHH.


----------



## Big Dog (Aug 4, 2009)

I dunno, ESPN over here is second rate, only useful for the occasional premier league game. I think the programming is drastically different so what ever was said would probably only go as far as the US.


----------



## Castor Troy (Jul 17, 2011)

DoubleAwesome said:


> You're a Blind Blind mark...If he didn't marry Steph would he be in every single major Storyline(except Nexus)and Be a 13..13 time WORLD champion?? I don't think so he would've been a 3-4 times World Champ but that would be it...


so what your saying is, john cena and stephanie mcmahon are having an affair


----------



## Creepy Crawl (Jul 26, 2011)

While it may not be _completely_ true, I found it amusing, lol.


----------



## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

CNB said:


> Well basically an ESPN commentator made a strong claim that Triple H is an attention seeking, ego feeding, bad for business - selfish performer that injected himself into a storyline with CM Punk solely to build his own legacy.
> 
> I think its unnecessary to close a thread where discussion is taking place. I mean it's a wrestling forum and its stayed on topic.


*I understand that and read the comments he made about HHH. I just don't see how this totally destroys HHH. How one mans opinion *a man whose opinion doesn't even matter* holds any type of weight to "totally destroy" someone makes no sense to me. *


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

LadyCroft said:


> *I understand that and read the comments he made about HHH. I just don't see how this totally destroys HHH. How one mans opinion *a man whose opinion doesn't even matter* holds any type of weight to "totally destroy" someone. *


People have wanted Triple H off of Television for the past 9/10 years. They feel like he is nothing more than a cancer who wants no one else in the company to reach megastar heights even though that is bullshit.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm sure a lot of people with negative preconceived notions of HHH read that and agreed 100%. I'm sure a lot of people with positive preconceived notions of HHH read it and disagreed 100%. I'm also sure that a lot of people with no preconceived notions of HHH read it and scratched their heads in confusion. I think there's also a high probability that a lot of people read it, didn't know who CM Punk is and didn't have a clue what the fuck Simmons was talking about. Then there are the people who didn't know what was being talked about period. Needless to say, this small blurb is hardly going to _destroy_ HHH lol. He's had a lot worse said about him from people across the board. He's also had people sing his praises across the board too. A lot of his negative press comes from inside the wrestling world. To most others in the media, I don't think they'd know what the fuck Simmons was talking about tbh, especially if they know nothing about the so called backstage happenings of the WWE. The guy had an opinion and spoke out. Some will agree with him, some won't. I doubt Trips is losing sleep over it though.


----------



## DualShock (Jan 9, 2012)

For those people saying "he was a topstar before he married Steph" let me ask this, where is the proof that he was not with Stephanie together before they made their relationship official? Maybe he cheated on Chyna in their relationship, similar to Chris Benoit & Woman storyline.
What if he had an affair with Stephanie since the McMahon Helmsley Era and Stephanie told Vince "Daddy I think my storyline husband is very talented and he should get at the top as the top heel. Don`t think that we have an affair, I just think Paul is very talented"
With the summer of Punk storyline Triple H proved that he might be the real cancer in pro wrestling because he destroyed the first big opportunity to make wrestling "cool" again since the Attitude Era for selfish reasons


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

DualShock said:


> For those people saying "he was a topstar before he married Steph" let me ask this, where is the proof that he was not with Stephanie together before they made their relationship official? Maybe he cheated on Chyna in their relationship, similar to Chris Benoit & Woman storyline.
> What if he had an affair with Stephanie since the McMahon Helmsley Era and Stephanie told Vince "Daddy I think my storyline husband is very talented and he should get at the top as the top heel. Don`t think that we have an affair, I just think Paul is very talented"
> With the summer of Punk storyline Triple H proved that he might be the real cancer in pro wrestling because he destroyed the first big opportunity to make wrestling "cool" again since the Attitude Era for selfish reasons


Listen to that and then please STFU and stop pulling shit out of thin air. Lol at asking people to prove things when you're talking complete BS. It's comical.


----------



## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

DualShock said:


> For those people saying "he was a topstar before he married Steph" let me ask this, where is the proof that he was not with Stephanie together before they made their relationship official? Maybe he cheated on Chyna in their relationship, similar to Chris Benoit & Woman storyline.


Wrong. The burden of proof is on you to prove they were together. It would not even be possible to prove they weren't together.


----------



## Redrox (Jan 29, 2012)

Lol, Trips was heavily favored by Vince long before the angle with Steph began. He won his first world title in August of 99, the MHE started after that.


----------



## EraOfAwesome (Nov 25, 2010)

Castor Troy said:


> so what your saying is, john cena and stephanie mcmahon are having an affair



A threesome with Edge, no doubt.


----------



## MrWalsh (Feb 21, 2010)

It never surprises me every time I see a HHH mark act like every criticism leveled at him is coming from some idiot bully who needs to leave poor Paul alone.
Now the majority of the people don't know who CM punk is to care about HHH messing up his build? Oh I'm sorry I forgot its HHH who is rivaling Cena for highest merch sales and not CM Punk silly me for forgetting the WWE revolves around Paul's huge nose and even bigger ego(only rivaled by that of his fans).


----------



## SPCDRI (Mar 15, 2010)

Obis said:


> You know what HHH's problem is?
> 
> He's got a big nose.


Yep. A nose that is always being stuck into other people's business and hot angles.

CUZ IT'S ALL ABOUT THE GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME-UH! AND THE 20 MINUTE GAME-UH PROMO AND VIDEO SEGMENTS-UH!

WHAT?! A HOT ANGLE?! I NEED TO PUT MY NOSE IN IT SOMEHOW-UH!

When Sheamus "shelved" Triple H for about 10 months when he was filming dogshit movies that went straight to 3 theaters and then straight to the Wal-Mart 2 for 10 dollar DVD bin, oh what a relief that was.


----------



## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

MrWalsh said:


> It never surprises me every time I see a HHH mark act like every criticism leveled at him is coming from some idiot


Every time I've seen HHH bashing it HAS been from some idiot.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

EraOfAwesome said:


> A threesome with Edge, no doubt.


:favre:


----------



## DualShock (Jan 9, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Listen to that and then please STFU and stop pulling shit out of thin air. Lol at asking people to prove things when you're talking complete BS. It's comical.


Thanks for posting this and proved nothing that I wrote BS. BTW I didn`t claim anything, I just wrote that it can be a possibility that they were together before making it official.
So only because Stephanie said that they were dating other people is it the truth? George Michael claimed that he was with 1000 women before admiting he was gay.
It`s possibly the truth what Stephanie said, but even if not, she would tell the same story. Of course she will not say "HHH was with me 1999/2000 when he started to be a top star" and confirm what all Triple H haters say all the years.
Once again, I don`t claim anything, I only wrote that it can be a possibility.

But somebody was right who wrote years ago that Triple H marks are the worst. They defend him at some things were Triple H himself would say "they defend me at this shit? I know I did some bad things, are they retarded? LOL"


----------



## corfend (Jan 17, 2012)

DualShock said:


> For those people saying "he was a topstar before he married Steph" let me ask this, where is the proof that he was not with Stephanie together before they made their relationship official? Maybe he cheated on Chyna in their relationship, similar to Chris Benoit & Woman storyline.
> What if he had an affair with Stephanie since the McMahon Helmsley Era and Stephanie told Vince "Daddy I think my storyline husband is very talented and he should get at the top as the top heel. Don`t think that we have an affair, I just think Paul is very talented"
> With the summer of Punk storyline Triple H proved that he might be the real cancer in pro wrestling because he destroyed the first big opportunity to make wrestling "cool" again since the Attitude Era for selfish reasons


I'm confused as to why you're using pure speculation in your argument. Also, even if Punk hadn't had his momentum slowed, I doubt wrestling would've really been revitalized.

Anyway, the fact of the matter is that HHH shouldn't have gotten involved in the Summer of Punk angle, but he did, and his presence hurt the storyline.


----------



## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

DualShock said:


> Thanks for posting this and proved nothing that I wrote BS. BTW I didn`t claim anything, I just wrote that it can be a possibility that they were together before making it official.
> So only because Stephanie said that they were dating other people is it the truth? George Michael claimed that he was with 1000 women before admiting he was gay.
> It`s possibly the truth what Stephanie said, but even if not, she would tell the same story. Of course she will not say "HHH was with me 1999/2000 when he started to be a top star" and confirm what all Triple H haters say all the years.
> Once again, I don`t claim anything, I only wrote that it can be a possibility.
> ...


LOL.

If Steph wouldn't know when they started dating, who would? What kind of "proof" do you want.

Don't pretend to know what HHH would say. I've never heard him say he shouldn't be defended for something.


----------



## Alternate Illusion (Feb 19, 2012)

DualShock said:


> Thanks for posting this and proved nothing that I wrote BS. BTW I didn`t claim anything, I just wrote that it can be a possibility that they were together before making it official.
> So only because Stephanie said that they were dating other people is it the truth? George Michael claimed that he was with 1000 women before admiting he was gay.
> It`s possibly the truth what Stephanie said, but even if not, she would tell the same story. Of course she will not say "HHH was with me 1999/2000 when he started to be a top star" and confirm what all Triple H haters say all the years.
> Once again, I don`t claim anything, I only wrote that it can be a possibility.
> ...


I like how a fucking Vince Russo mark is talking about assumptions on the internet lol.


----------



## DualShock (Jan 9, 2012)

EnglishWrestling said:


> LOL.
> 
> If Steph wouldn't know when they started dating, who would? What kind of "proof" do you want.


fpalm
of course Stephanie knows it but that don`t mean that she will tell it in every interview.
Before all the Triple H marks start defend him, I don`t have any proof and I don`t want any proof, neither do I want to convince someone.
Everybody can think what he wants and I think that he started dating Stephanie during the McMahon-Helmsley Era and that was the reason why he received the push.


----------



## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

DualShock said:


> fpalm
> of course Stephanie knows it but that don`t mean that she will tell it in every interview.
> Before all the Triple H marks start defend him, I don`t have any proof and I don`t want any proof, neither do I want to convince someone.
> Everybody can think what he wants and I think that he started dating Stephanie during the McMahon-Helmsley Era and that was the reason why he received the push.


Maybe Punk only received a push because he had an affair with Steph.

Maybe Daniel Bryan is only WHC because he had an affair with Steph.

So you see how stupid your argument is? HHH was a main eventer BEFORE he started dating Steph. It doesn't matter what you "think", because you're wrong. HHH defeated The Rock, Foley, and Big Show at WM 2000 to retain the WWF championship. That was before he started dating Steph.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

MrWalsh said:


> It never surprises me every time I see a HHH mark act like every criticism leveled at him is coming from some idiot bully who needs to leave poor Paul alone.
> Now the majority of the people don't know who CM punk is to care about HHH messing up his build? Oh I'm sorry I forgot its HHH who is rivaling Cena for highest merch sales and not CM Punk silly me for forgetting the WWE revolves around Paul's huge nose and even bigger ego(only rivaled by that of his fans).


I'll let you in on a little secret, most completely blind hate of any kind tends to come from idiots who don't have the capacity to think properly, hence they are idiots. You are the perfect example btw and are proving my point. Did I say that the majority of people don't know who CM Punk is? No. I said that there's a high probability of a lot of people not knowing who Punk is because he isn't a mainstream star nor has he reached superstardom level in WWE. HHH has 10x the star power and there's a high probability that a lot of people don't know who he is either.



DualShock said:


> Thanks for posting this and proved nothing that I wrote BS. BTW I didn`t claim anything, I just wrote that it can be a possibility that they were together before making it official.
> So only because Stephanie said that they were dating other people is it the truth? George Michael claimed that he was with 1000 women before admiting he was gay.
> It`s possibly the truth what Stephanie said, but even if not, she would tell the same story. Of course she will not say "HHH was with me 1999/2000 when he started to be a top star" and confirm what all Triple H haters say all the years.
> Once again, I don`t claim anything, I only wrote that it can be a possibility.
> ...


What more do you want? You hear it directly from Stephanie McMahon's mouth that they didn't start to see each other until quite some time had passed, that they broke it off for a while before finally getting back together again yet it's not good enough? What reason does she have to lie? Like she actually gives a fuck what some loser on the internet has to say about her marriage lol. She's telling it like it is and telling what went down. Sure, anything can be possible. It could be possible that HHH wanted to put Punk over and Vince wouldn't let him. There. Just because I said it and because there's no way of you disproving what I said, I'm right because it's a possibility. Your argument is completely fucking retarded yet why should I be surprised considering the fact that you're completely delusional. Hey, it's possible that I'm actually Vince McMahon. You can't disprove it can you? No. Well then I guess it must be true. Possible doesn't equal probable or complete truth. So yeah, you're talking BULLSHIT in big fat capital letters.


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## SPCDRI (Mar 15, 2010)

Triple H was a mid card and heavyweight champ before he dated Steph. He'd still be a top guy without being married to her. Maybe he wouldn't have had a year long reign, or 13 eventual titles, but he still would have been a multiple time heavyweight champ and made man without Steph. Duh.


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## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I'll let you in on a little secret, most completely blind hate of any kind tends to come from idiots who don't have the capacity to think properly, hence they are idiots. You are the perfect example btw and are proving my point. Did I say that the majority of people don't know who CM Punk is? No. I said that there's a high probability of a lot of people not knowing who Punk is because he isn't a mainstream star nor has he reached superstardom level in WWE. HHH has 10x the star power and there's a high probability that a lot of people don't know who he is either.
> 
> 
> 
> What more do you want? You hear it directly from Stephanie McMahon's mouth that they didn't start to see each other until quite some time had passed, that they broke it off for a while before finally getting back together again yet it's not good enough? What reason does she have to lie? Like she actually gives a fuck what some loser on the internet has to say about her marriage lol. She's telling it like it is and telling what went down. Sure, anything can be possible. It could be possible that HHH wanted to put Punk over and Vince wouldn't let him. There. Just because I said it and because there's no way of you disproving what I said, I'm right because it's a possibility. Your argument is completely fucking retarded yet why should I be surprised considering the fact that you're completely delusional. Hey, it's possible that I'm actually Vince McMahon. You can't disprove it can you? No. Well then I guess it must be true. Possible doesn't equal probable or complete truth. So yeah, you're talking BULLSHIT in big fat capital letters.


+1

These people who make these stupid arguments and speculation should be banned from this forum.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

EnglishWrestling said:


> +1
> 
> These people who make these stupid arguments and speculation should be banned from this forum.


It's just plain fucking stupid. Take away all the HHH stuff and you basically have a person refuting facts about a situation, disregarding all that and taking their own speculation to hold more weight lol. Jesus.


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## Alternate Illusion (Feb 19, 2012)

SPCDRI said:


> Triple H was a mid card and heavyweight champ before he dated Steph. He'd still be a top guy without being married to her. Maybe he wouldn't have had a year long reign, or 13 eventual titles, but he still would have been a multiple time heavyweight champ and made man without Steph. Duh.


Edge is a 11 time world champion and he never even drew money unlike HHH. So did he marry stephanie too?

Hell it took 10 years for HHH to become ten time champion but edge became 11 time world champion in just 4 and half years. Explain that. 

Seriously this place would be lot better if people tried to be objective when arguing.

and BTW, 
Austin became 6 time wwe champion in 3 years, 
The Rock 7 time world champion in 4 years, 
Ric FLair 22 times world champion in 25 years.


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## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

Alternate Illusion said:


> Edge is a 11 time world champion and he never even drew money unlike HHH. So did he marry stephanie too?
> 
> Hell it took 10 years for HHH to become ten time champion but edge became 11 time world champion in just 4 and half years. Explain that.
> 
> ...


Idiots don't understand the phrase "correlation does not equal causation".

Trips married Steph
Trips had lots of success 

That doesn't mean Trips had lots of success BECAUSE he married Steph. He's one of the greatest heels in wrestling history. They would have been stupid to not make him a top guy for all those years whether he got with her or not. He's super over, and makes them money. Of course he's going to get pushed.


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## The XL (Aug 7, 2006)

As a huge wrestling and Knick fan, I lol'd. But I'm also scared it's true.


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## DualShock (Jan 9, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> What more do you want? You hear it directly from Stephanie McMahon's mouth that they didn't start to see each other until quite some time had passed, that they broke it off for a while before finally getting back together again yet it's not good enough? What reason does she have to lie? Like she actually gives a fuck what some loser on the internet has to say about her marriage lol. She's telling it like it is and telling what went down. Sure, anything can be possible. It could be possible that HHH wanted to put Punk over and Vince wouldn't let him. There. Just because I said it and because there's no way of you disproving what I said, I'm right because it's a possibility. Your argument is completely fucking retarded yet why should I be surprised considering the fact that you're completely delusional. Hey, it's possible that I'm actually Vince McMahon. You can't disprove it can you? No. Well then I guess it must be true. Possible doesn't equal probable or complete truth. So yeah, you're talking BULLSHIT in big fat capital letters.


I don`t want anything. This is a wrestlingforum and we have a thread about Triple H and I have the right to write anything I believe and anything I want if it`s on topic and is not again the rules of this site.
Just like Stephanie don`t gives a fuck what some people on the internet think, I don`t give a fuck what some people think about my post and call me delusional and write STFU.
Only because it`s not an official version it doesn`t mean that you can not have your own opinion, be it why Triple H is succesfull, if we had a fast count at Starrcade 1997, who killed WCW, if Hulk Hogan is gay, if Vince Russo is a lunatic, who killed JFK, who was responsible for 9/11, do you believe in aliens etc.
Even if I am wrong that doesn`t change the fact that he don`t deserve to have 10 titles. Why is he better than people like Undertaker, Jericho, Kane, Big Show, Benoit, Angle or Foley and got more titles than them?



EnglishWrestling said:


> +1
> 
> These people who make these stupid arguments and speculation should be banned from this forum.


Yeah right. Ban all people who have different opinion on your favourite superstars:lmao
Do you work for SOPA/PIPA?


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## DaBlueGuy (Oct 9, 2010)

Bill Simmons is a dumbass. Ratings have dropped faster then womens panties at a Tom Jones concert once they put the strap on Punk. He is a boring skinny fat hypocrite who needs to look in the mirror since he politics as much as Hogan or HHH ever did.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

DualShock said:


> I don`t want anything. This is a wrestlingforum and we have a thread about Triple H and I have the right to write anything I believe and anything I want if it`s on topic and is not again the rules of this site.
> Just like Stephanie don`t gives a fuck what some people on the internet think, I don`t give a fuck what some people think about my post and call me delusional and write STFU.
> Only because it`s not an official version it doesn`t mean that you can not have your own opinion, be it why Triple H is succesfull, if we had a fast count at Starrcade 1997, who killed WCW, if Hulk Hogan is gay, if Vince Russo is a lunatic, who killed JFK, who was responsible for 9/11, do you believe in aliens etc.
> Even if I am wrong that doesn`t change the fact that he don`t deserve to have 10 titles. Why is he better than people like Undertaker, Jericho, Kane, Big Show, Benoit, Angle or Foley and got more titles than them?


You have a right to write what you believe but Jesus Christ. You've been given facts about something yet you still continue to speculate and make baseless claims. That's where the delusion stuff is coming from. There's having an opinion and there's just being flat out wrong. There's no official or unofficial version here either. There's what actually happened and there's what you think happened based on nothing but sheer speculation. You're completely within your rights to think he doesn't deserve to have 10 titles. That's an opinion. Have it all you want. You saying that they were dating before the McMahon-Helmsley Era however is not an opinion, it's just wrong and fucking stupid if I'm being honest.


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Alternate Illusion said:


> Edge is a 11 time world champion and he never even drew money unlike HHH. So did he marry stephanie too?
> 
> Hell it took 10 years for HHH to become ten time champion but edge became 11 time world champion in just 4 and half years. Explain that.
> 
> ...


Actually, from HHH's first title run to his 10th win, that was mid-1999 to early 2005, so that's 5 and a half years. Edge won 11 in a little less than that (closer to 5 years).

In any event, it's ridiculous to me if anyone wins the title so much in a short period of time, and it's even worse when the reigns are short. Edge has a lot of reigns because of his whole "Ultimate Opportunist" gimmick and the fact it seemed like for half of his reigns WWE had no idea what to fucking do with him. All his reigns were a case of bad booking... and for SD being one of the few guys who could hold the World Title legitimately.

Austin is Austin, Rock is Rock, and Edge and HHH are neither of those guys (and I'm not even sure I agree with those two getting the title as much as they did... but that's more because I feel they should've had longer reigns). 

Who knows what would've happened if HHH never married Stephanie. Maybe he wouldn't be as big as he is today, maybe he'd be bigger, or maybe everything would be the same. Plenty of HHH's wins and title wins were questionable from 2002-2005 (and some even after that), but who is the one who made those decisions. Ultimately we know it's Vince McMahon. PERHAPS HHH has suggested things to Vince and maybe Vince really likes HHH so he takes his ideas and usually lets him run with them. But we don't know that for sure. All we know and what's been said over and over again is everything is filtered through Vince. So aim your crossbows at him .


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Obis said:


> Ultimately we know it's Vince McMahon. PERHAPS HHH has suggested things to Vince and maybe Vince really likes HHH so he takes his ideas and usually lets him run with them. But we don't know that for sure. All we know and what's been said over and over again is everything is filtered through Vince. So aim your crossbows at him .


From listening to Stephanie speak in that interview and from all the McMahon's talking on the McMahon DVD about HHH/Steph dating etc, I'm surprised nobody has brought up the fact that Vince liked Trips long before Stephanie ever liked him lol. Steph even says it herself that she thought he secretly set them up etc. Vince loves him more than Steph FFS and that was clearly apparent before they ever got married. With or without Stephanie he was going to be a star because he had the talent to do it and because he had the backing of the guy making the decisions.


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> From listening to Stephanie speak in that interview and from all the McMahon's talking on the McMahon DVD about HHH/Steph dating etc, I'm surprised nobody has brought up the fact that Vince liked Trips long before Stephanie ever liked him lol. Steph even says it herself that she thought he secretly set them up etc. Vince loves him more than Steph FFS and that was clearly apparent before they ever got married. With or without Stephanie he was going to be a star because he had the talent to do it and because he had the backing of the guy making the decisions.


I do remember on the Vince dvd (at least I think it was that one) that they talked about the whole HHH/Steph marriage situation. On there they mentioned the fact they were together, but then split for a while before finally getting back together. But I remember Stephanie saying Vince said something along the lines of "Why don't you get with a guy like HHH."

I'm sure and I've said in the past I think HHH's successes (besides his own hard work) from the booking side of things has been because Vince is as much a fan of HHH as anyone else.


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## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I thought Vince forbid her to be involved with any of the guys?


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Obis said:


> I do remember on the Vince dvd (at least I think it was that one) that they talked about the whole HHH/Steph marriage situation. On there they mentioned the fact they were together, but then split for a while before finally getting back together. But I remember Stephanie saying Vince said something along the lines of "Why don't you get with a guy like HHH."
> 
> I'm sure and I've said in the past I think HHH's successes (besides his own hard work) from the booking side of things has been because Vince is as much a fan of HHH as anyone else.


Yeah. That's what she says in that interview clip I posted back there too. Vince liked him long before Stephanie even knew him on a personal level. He was getting pushed with or without her which is why it's so ridiculous to me when people say he only got pushed because of her. If you're going to lay the blame on politics and on the McMahon's for HHH being who he is today, at least blame the right fucking McMahon lol. 



greendayedgehead said:


> I thought Vince forbid her to be involved with any of the guys?


He did. Then he went back on his word and let her date HHH. Then word got out and he stopped it. Then he gave them permission again and the rest is history lol. At least that's what I gather from hearing them speak about it.


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## DaBlueGuy (Oct 9, 2010)

greendayedgehead said:


> I thought Vince forbid her to be involved with any of the guys?


Can't blame him. He probably was worried someone would be about the hit it and quit it route like Macho Man.


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## APEX (May 26, 2011)

Someone mentioned it above ^

There is a DVD / Youtube clip, with Vince saying 'why don't you get with a guy like HHH'.
He didn't set them up, because I also remember them saying how nervous HHH and Steph were to actually tell Vince about it all.

I myself don't see everyones problem with HHH.

He trains hard.
Hes great on the mic.
He has a good move set.
His entrance is amazing.
His look is a good as they come.
He has been the best heel in the WWE IMO.
He has proved his worth as a singles and tag team wrestler.
His has held the belts and kept people interested.
He worked his ass off from a career threatening injury, we all know that the doctor said, NO ONE should come back from that.
His desire for the business and wrestling is 10/10.

There is also a clip on Youtube where it says, Vince pulled him and the rock into his office back in 2000 saying that there will be chances of hollywood movies, The Rock jumped at the chance, where as HHH said no, his heart is with the business.

No wonder Vince likes him, he loves the WWE and his has all the tools any wrestler could need.

The guy is a legend IMO.


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## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

DualShock said:


> I don`t want anything. This is a wrestlingforum and we have a thread about Triple H and I have the right to write anything I believe and anything I want if it`s on topic and is not again the rules of this site.
> Just like Stephanie don`t gives a fuck what some people on the internet think, I don`t give a fuck what some people think about my post and call me delusional and write STFU.
> Only because it`s not an official version it doesn`t mean that you can not have your own opinion, be it why Triple H is succesfull, if we had a fast count at Starrcade 1997, who killed WCW, if Hulk Hogan is gay, if Vince Russo is a lunatic, who killed JFK, who was responsible for 9/11, do you believe in aliens etc.
> Even if I am wrong that doesn`t change the fact that he don`t deserve to have 10 titles. Why is he better than people like Undertaker, Jericho, Kane, Big Show, Benoit, Angle or Foley and got more titles than them?
> ...



*I don't know what more you want. If you listened to that interview then you have testimony right from the source. That's as good as you're going to get. And if you don't believe it yet then I don't know why. 

I don't see any reason for Stephanie to lie about it. She gains nothing from lying about it. *


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Rebel said:


> Someone mentioned it above ^
> 
> There is a DVD / Youtube clip, with Vince saying 'why don't you get with a guy like HHH'.
> He didn't set them up, because I also remember them saying how nervous HHH and Steph were to actually tell Vince about it all.
> ...


HE SED DA BROOMSTIK IS BETTER DEN EVERBADY N HE BURIEZ PPL ALL DA TIME DURRRRRR

Seriously though. Not everybody's going to like him, it's only natural. Not everybody is going to think he should be in the spot he's in but fucking hell you'd think he raped peoples mothers and killed their dogs the way they get on.


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## Alternate Illusion (Feb 19, 2012)

Obis said:


> Actually, from HHH's first title run to his 10th win, that was mid-1999 to early 2005, so that's 5 and a half years. Edge won 11 in a little less than that (closer to 5 years).
> 
> In any event, it's ridiculous to me if anyone wins the title so much in a short period of time, and it's even worse when the reigns are short. Edge has a lot of reigns because of his whole "Ultimate Opportunist" gimmick and the fact it seemed like for half of his reigns WWE had no idea what to fucking do with him. All his reigns were a case of bad booking... and for SD being one of the few guys who could hold the World Title legitimately.
> 
> ...


I'll bite. It was 5 and half years, just checked...HHH became 4 time WWE 
Champion in 3 years and then 6 time World champion (including Undisputed Title) in 3 years approx. 

But i have to disagree when you put HHH with edge and say he didnt deserve it. HHH was not the draw rock or austin were in their prime but he was third biggest draw + a legit main eventer. Simply put, HHH was the Main event guy who drew the most money in his time. John cena is 12 time World champion and he is not the draw Rock or austin were in their prime but that doesnt mean he didnt deserve it. Much like HHH, John cena IS the main event guy who draws/makes the most money for the company. The Top draw gets to be the World champion thats the general rule in professional wrestling. 

Hulkmania was much more popular than attitude era but that doesnt mean hogan fans should complain about austin's title reigns. 

Edge is overrated by default because he did not draw.


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## APEX (May 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> HE SED DA BROOMSTIK IS BETTER DEN EVERBADY N HE BURIEZ PPL ALL DA TIME DURRRRRR
> 
> Seriously though. Not everybody's going to like him, it's only natural. Not everybody is going to think he should be in the spot he's in but fucking hell you'd think he raped peoples mothers and killed their dogs the way they get on.


Hahaa I've never understood the hatred, I suppose its each to there own.
I suppose he just beat guys like Austin/Rock to many times for some peoples liking.
BOW DOWN TO THE KING!


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Alternate Illusion said:


> I'll bite. It was 5 and half years, just checked...HHH became 4 time WWE
> Champion in 3 years and then 6 time World champion 3 years approx.
> 
> But i have to disagree when you put HHH with edge and say he didnt deserve it. HHH was not the draw rock or austin were in their prime but he was third biggest draw + a legit main eventer. Simply put, HHH was the Main event guy who drew the most money in his time. John cena is 12 time World champion and he is not the draw Rock or austin were in their prime but that doesnt mean he didnt deserve it. Much like HHH, John cena IS the main event guy who draws/makes the most money for the company. The Top draw gets to be the World champion thats the general rule in professional wrestling.
> ...


Not on the same level as Edge of not deserving it? Okay, but still didn't deserve it. HHH was a big draw, but it's just the fact it was taken off him, only to be put back on him so much that makes me question him getting the title as much as he did. It's not even just a matter of whether he deserves it or not, it's also just stupid booking. Same thing with Edge.

Although Edge was a good draw in 06 so to say he was never a draw or did not draw is ridiculous... but that's all I'm gonna say on that. His drawing ability did diminish a lot after he was injured in 07, but hey... what can you do. He was never on the level of guys like Taker or HHH anyway.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Rebel said:


> Hahaa I've never understood the hatred, I suppose its each to there own.
> I suppose he just beat guys like Austin/Rock to many times for some peoples liking.
> BOW DOWN TO THE KING!


Triple H was such a good heel in 00-01 that people are still scarred for life and hate him to this day because of it lol. Makes sense imo.


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## DualShock (Jan 9, 2012)

LadyCroft said:


> *I don't know what more you want. If you listened to that interview then you have testimony right from the source. That's as good as you're going to get. And if you don't believe it yet then I don't know why.
> 
> I don't see any reason for Stephanie to lie about it. She gains nothing from lying about it. *


LOL how many times should I write I don`t want anything and get a response "what more do you want?"
I believe that HHH and Stephanie started dating each other 2000 when Triple H got his big push and everything what comes out of the mouth of HHH, Steph and other McMahons is not a valid proof.
But that`s just my opinion and I didn`t meant to post the same stuff 5-6 times but if some HHH fans ask me 5-6 times what do I want I will respond 5-6 times with the same stuff.

BTW this thread went to far anyway. It`s not about the career of HHH, it`s about his storyline with CM Punk last year and the comment on ESPN


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## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

*Sure it's valid proof. Direct testimony like that is used every day in a court of law. You can be stubborn and just make stuff up to fit your own preconceived notions and that's fine. Knowledge is always greater than ignorance. *


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## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

DualShock said:


> I believe that HHH and Stephanie started dating each other 2000 when Triple H got his big push and everything what comes out of the mouth of HHH, Steph and other McMahons is not a valid proof.


It doesn't matter what you believe if you cannot provide evidence to back what you say. You are a liar, plain and simple. I'm not the only one to call you out on your lies. A bunch of others have as well.

If you cannot state WHY you believe what you say you do, that makes your statements lies.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

DualShock said:


> LOL how many times should I write I don`t want anything and get a response "what more do you want?"
> *I believe that HHH and Stephanie started dating each other 2000 when Triple H got his big push and everything what comes out of the mouth of HHH, Steph and other McMahons is not a valid proof.*
> But that`s just my opinion and I didn`t meant to post the same stuff 5-6 times but if some HHH fans ask me 5-6 times what do I want I will respond 5-6 times with the same stuff.
> 
> BTW this thread went to far anyway. It`s not about the career of HHH, it`s about his storyline with CM Punk last year and the comment on ESPN


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## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

DualShock said:


> I believe that HHH and Stephanie started dating each other 2000 when Triple H got his big push and everything what comes out of the mouth of HHH, Steph and other McMahons is not a valid proof.


What would be valid proof? I asked you before, but you went off on another one of your wild conspiracy theories and lies again. That's all you've done all thread.


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## DualShock (Jan 9, 2012)

EnglishWrestling said:


> It doesn't matter what you believe if you cannot provide evidence to back what you say. You are a liar, plain and simple. I'm not the only one to call you out on your lies. A bunch of others have as well.
> 
> If you cannot state WHY you believe what you say you do, that makes your statements lies.


What`s the difference if I write why I believe it? Would you take me more seriously? OF course not, so why waste time?
If I write that I think the real reason is why HHH was on top 2000 is that he and Steph started to see each other.
That she suggested to her father to push HHH more
That Chyna left WWE in 2001 because she found out that Hunter cheated on her in 2000, the most important year in his career.
That both experienced the same like Chris Benoit & Nancy Sullivan where both acted like they were only in love storyline wise but it became quick real love, in the same year when the McMahon-Helmsley Era started 2000 when he became succesfull.

I made my statement, do you take me more seriously? I guess not.
So why bother in the future and try to explain something to Triple H fans who are the worst because if you are a bigger prick as a superstar you have more sensitive and butthurted fans who attack you like you`re denying the Holocaust.


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## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

If a wrestler is not Hogan caliber, that doesn't mean he is not a draw. Edge was a decent draw in his prime and he got the title so many times because of his gimmick, that's understandable.

To say that HHH was a main eventer only because of his wife is BS, he was a main wrestler before that because of his talent(total package) and politics. But, because of that relationship he got a lot of privileges, you can argue that too many. a regular top guy wouldn't be in creative meetings, wouldn't choose who gets a push, wouldn't choose and say who he wants to put over and who is a mid carder etc. And of course he will not be in his corporate position now, but that's another subject.


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## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I dont think Triple H really got as much out of Steph as people think. Atleast from his point of view.

In 2003, all the other mega attitude era stars were gone. He dominated because he was the last one left and still reeked of overness from back then. And in the process, he legitimately made stars


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