# All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR



## Reotor

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

And so it begins...


----------



## Chrome

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Gotta think Smackdown will get one of the highest ratings it's gotten in YEARS.


----------



## Darren Criss

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Maryse = Ratings


----------



## TakerFreak

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Ambrose goes to smackdown = low ratings...


----------



## DeeGirl

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Don't think anyone has been excited for an episode of Smackdown since about 2009, really hope Smackdown can legit compete with Raw.


----------



## FearlessNikki

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

There was an interesting stat that was posted on reddit that Smackdown's ratings haven't changed since 2010. They've been bouncing between 1.6-2.0 for 6 years while Raw has declined every year. It'll be interesting to see if this draft will change that trend.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Will SD rise above RAW? Stay tuned.


----------



## Oneiros

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I'm not getting my hopes up too much, but this can be just what WWE needs if done right. I'm staying up to see Smackdown for the first time.


----------



## Len Hughes Presents

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Some statistics here:


○ The highest rated episodes of SmackDown were #24 (27/01/00) & #37 (27/04/00). Both episodes drew a 5.4 rating. Ep. #37 drew a 9.0 share while Ep. #24 drew a 8.0 share. 

○ The first live episode of SmackDown drew a 3.4 rating and a 5.0 share. The episode (Ep. #107) aired on Tuesday, September 4th, 2001. SmackDown was pre-empted the following week due to the Al Qaeda attacks on New York City and Washington D.C.

○ SmackDown later aired live with Ep. #124 on Thursday, January 3rd, 2002. It drew a 3.8 rating and a 4.0 share while competing with the Rose Bowl. 

○ Ep. #136, the first episode of SmackDown after the 2002 WWE Brand Extension, drew a 3.7. 

○ SmackDown Ep. #150 fell on July 4th and drew a lowly rating of 2.0 - the lowest SmackDown rating to that point. 

○ SmackDown average a rating of 3.52 in 2002 - the first year of the WWE Brand Extension. 

○ SmackDown began 2003 with a live episode. Ep. #176 aired on Thursday, January 2nd, 2003 drawing a 3.4 rating and a 6.0 share. Brock Lesnar vs. Matt Hardy main-evented the episode. 

○ SmackDown average a rating of 3.30 in 2003 - the first full year of the WWE Brand Extension.

○ SmackDown moved to Friday nights in 2005. The debut episode (Ep. #315) drew rating of 2.9.

○ In 2006, SmackDown moved to the CW Network drawing a 2.4 in it's debut (Ep. #372) on Friday, September 22, 2006. The Undertaker vs. King Booker was the main event. 

○ In 2008, SmackDown once again fell on the 4th of July drawing a minuscule 1.6 rating.

○ In October of 2008, SmackDown moved the MyNetwork TV. The debut episode, Ep. #478, drew a rating of 1.9. Triple H, Chris Jericho and Matt Hardy worked the main event in a three-way match. 

○ SmackDown left MyNetwork TV for SyFy in September of 2010. The debut episode (Ep. #576) drew a rating of 1.74. Big Show vs. Luke Gallows was the main event. 

○ SmackDown reached its nadir in 2014 when Ep. #769 drew a rating of 0.75 after it aired on May 9th, 2014. The Wyatt Family battled John Cena and the Usos in the main event. 

○ 2015 was the least watched year in SmackDown's 16-year history netting an average rating of 1.69. 

○ So far, SmackDown has an average rating of 1.68 in 2016.​


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SD should be way up. Beware RAW, your deletion is at hand.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I expect a rating of 2.4-2.1 for this episode. Anything lower than that range is a fail for all the marketing and hype they did for this show that ended up being disappointing anyways.


----------



## Empress

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*7/19 Live Smackdown/WWE Draft Social Media activity – Surge to near-WrestleMania level*

With 59 WWE Draft picks to comment on, the new Raw and Smackdown rosters to evaluate, and the Live Smackdown premiere to discuss on Tuesday night, there was a huge surge in social media activity for Smackdown.
*
WWE Smackdown Social Media Tracking*

July 19: Smackdown registered social media activity just below the level of post-WrestleMania Raw, according to Nielsen’s Twitter TV Ratings.

Smackdown generated 279,000 tweets from 49,000 unique authors, for a rate of 5.7 tweets per person.

By comparison, last week’s final Thursday Night Smackdown airing drew 42,000 tweets from 16,000 unique authors for a rate of 2.6 tweets per person.

Overall on the night, Smackdown ranked #2 in social media activity behind TV-wide coverage of the Republican National Convention.

– Going back one night to Monday’s Raw leading into the Draft, the July 18 Raw generated 176,000 tweets from 45,000 unique authors.

So, the number of people tweeting about Raw and Smackdown was very close, but Smackdown generated 100,000 more tweets.

Once the dust settles from the Draft and Battleground, the real comparisons can begin with live Raws and Smackdowns side-by-side on Monday and Tuesday, respectively.
*
2016’s Top 5 WWE Social Media Shows (non-PPV)*

Feb. 8 – D-Bryan Retirement: 343,000 tweets / 83,000 uniques
Apr. 4 – Post-Mania Raw: 316,000 tweets / 56,000 uniques
Feb. 22 – Shane McMahon Return: 286,000 tweets / 64,000 uniques
*Jul. 19 – Draft/Live SD Premiere: 279,000 tweets / 49,000 uniques*
Jan. 25 – Post-Rumble Raw: 243,000 tweets / 54,000 uniques

http://www.pwtorch.com/site/2016/07...ial-media-huge-surge-near-wrestlemania-level/


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I truly hope the ratings are shit, just so maybe, _maybe_ somebody might notice what a complete ratings killer that twat is.

Then again, why should I fucking care.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

This was the Draft show, so the number better be high, like somewhere in the 4 millions. Whatever the number for the Draft show is, that is likely their ceiling going forward. So, it better be really, really high for WWE's sake.


----------



## validreasoning

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ShowStopper said:


> This was the Draft show, so the number better be high, like somewhere in the 4 millions. Whatever the number for the Draft show is, that is likely their ceiling going forward. So, it better be really, really high for WWE's sake.


There is no chance of getting anywhere near 4 million on Tuesday night head to head with the gop convention

When you move nights you usually lose viewers not gain regardless if show is live. The draft might gain a few people but it won't gain that many. SD has rarely done 3 million viewers during its 6 years on cable and never drew 4 million and certainly won't in 2016


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



validreasoning said:


> There is no chance of getting anywhere near 4 million on Tuesday night head to head with the gop convention
> 
> When you move nights you usually lose viewers not gain regardless if show is live. The draft might gain a few people but it won't gain that many. SD has rarely done 3 million viewers its 6 years on cable and never drew 4 million and certainly won't in 2016


That's not Raw's target audience. If this was a regular SD, I'd have no expectations. But it was the Draft show. Interest was higher than usual.


----------



## DoubtGin

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

3 million would be incredible numbers

this is still Smackdown, I can't see them getting a huge income of viewers all of a sudden


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

C'mon SD,home of the underachievers, overachieve on this rating. :fingerscrossed


----------



## Bushmaster

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ShowStopper said:


> This was the Draft show, so the number better be high, like somewhere in the 4 millions. Whatever the number for the Draft show is, that is likely their ceiling going forward. So, it better be really, really high for WWE's sake.


Feel like you're coming up with a number they can't reach just to laugh at them :Seth. 

It's still Smackdown which has gotten a bad rep for years so I wouldn't expect everyone to tune in even if it were for a big event.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Iron Man said:


> Feel like you're coming up with a number they can't reach just to laugh at them :Seth.
> 
> It's still Smackdown which has gotten a bad rep for years so I wouldn't expect everyone to tune in even if it were for a big event.


Nah, no reason to laugh, WWE has been getting bad ratings for both shows for long enough. Draft is a big deal. The biggest thing they've done all year.


----------



## D.M.N.

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

3.17 million - higher than Raw and highest for SmackDown since February 7th, 2014: http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articl...cable-originals-network-finals-7-19-2016.html


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

3.1 million for a DRAFT show.

Oh. My. God.

It's panic time.


----------



## The Tempest

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*










:dead2 :dead2


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SD > RAW. I assume this is the high water mark. We'll see if it reverts to form in the upcoming weeks.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Tempest said:


> :dead2 :dead2


*SmackDown viewership 
this week(7/21) Vs last week(7/14) 

3.170M Vs 2.068M
(+1.002M/+53.29%)*

Hey guys. I accidentally posted in the RAW ratings thread without noticing this new thread and thank you SHIV for bringing that to my attention. So sorry for the delay.

This could be the first time in many years that SD has beaten RAW in viewership(maybe since the ruthless aggression era). There are ways to track ratings but viewership figures for all those SD episodes are elusive to track down and compare.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

:WOO:WOO:WOO:WOO

CANNOT wait for that rating.


----------



## Empress

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*WWE SmackDown Viewership For The Draft*

Source: Showbuzz Daily

Last night's live WWE SmackDown, featuring the WWE Draft and the first show since moving to Tuesday nights, drew 3.170 million viewers. This is up from last week's show, which drew 2.068 million viewers.

SmackDown was #6 for the night in viewership, due to the various mainstream news programs covering the Republican National Convention.
SmackDown came in at #1 for the night in the 18-49 demographic.

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2016/0720/614762/wwe-smackdown-viewership-for-the-draft/


----------



## Mifune Jackson

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

For this one week, does this mean WWE can claim that it saved Smackdown to USA?


----------



## The True Believer

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Up a whole million viewers. Not bad.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Over a million viewer spike is a triumph. I wish they would do more PiP. I actually liked it.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



WINNING DA BASED GAWD said:


> :WOO:WOO:WOO:WOO
> 
> CANNOT wait for that rating.


Scary as fuck considering it had the Draft to build around and doesn't even have a 3rd hour to drag it down.


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Oh yeah, Vince will love that, all his discarded midgets blowing up his handpicked Raw roster.

Owned, I guess.


----------



## DoubtGin

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

those are great numbers, you don't randomly get +2 million viewers because of the draft

the increase is pretty big


----------



## The Tempest

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

My burhs. You don't realize.

SD has already beaten RAW this week, in fact, RAW got 3.133 while SD is 3.170. Not even a day and RAW already taking the Ls


:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Tempest said:


> My burhs. You don't realize.
> 
> SD has already beaten RAW this week, in fact, RAW got 3.133 while SD is 3.170. Not even a day and RAW already taking the Ls
> 
> 
> :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


For a Draft show..and they still barely beat them, with no 3rd hour to drag them down. That isn't good, bro. :lmao That is SCARY bad. This was the Draft with the ENTIRE roster on the show.


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



DoubtGin said:


> those are great numbers, you don't randomly get +2 million viewers because of the draft
> 
> the increase is pretty big


First off, it's one million.
Then secondly:
The alternate explanation is that Smackdown just happens to increase this week.

Which means OF COURSE it's the draft. What else?

Jesus ...

I swear, some people still believe earth is flat and Vince knows what he's Doing.
And let us be honest here, the shock is not Smackdown drawing a good number because of its inaugural new era show, it's RAW actually losing viewers for its doomsday show.


----------



## Chrome

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Smackdown already beating Raw.


----------



## The Tempest

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ShowStopper said:


> For a Draft show..and they still barely beat them, with no 3rd hour to drag them down. That isn't good, bro. :lmao That is SCARY bad. This was the Draft with the ENTIRE roster on the show.


Well. Considering 2016 standards, especially for SmackDown, this is a good number. The show went under 2 milions not so long ago. Is it bad overall speaking for the draft? Yes, but for SD, this is quite a nice number. Was the show good? Nope, but this goes to show you if you promote something, you can gather interest.

We'll see if they can keep up the momentum even after the draft buzz (answer, they won't)


----------



## PlKACHU

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

They're probably happy with that rating.

It doesn't matter cause unless Smackdown is drastically different from what RAW has been these past few years, the only way is down.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Vince will make sure SD doesn't beat RAW ever again.

Yeah, a big increase so kudos. The hype of the Draft worked. Now it's over and the brand split begins after BG. If those ratings start going back to 2 million views and under, oh man.....


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Raw-Is-Botchamania said:


> First off, it's one million.
> Then secondly:
> The alternate explanation is that Smackdown just happens to increase this week.
> 
> Which means OF COURSE it's the draft. What else?
> 
> Jesus ...
> 
> I swear, some people still believe earth is flat and Vince knows what he's Doing.
> And let us be honest here, the shock is not Smackdown drawing a good number because of its inaugural new era show, it's RAW actually losing viewers for its doomsday show.


Yeah, if this was a few weeks from now, it'd still be a bad number. These are the same numbers Raw has been getting all 2016 and unlike Raw, SD doesn't have a 3rd hour which is a big advantage and they had the Draft last night, and it still barely drew 3 million. :lmao


----------



## Cipher

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SD beat RAW? That's the first time since what..2002/03?

I don't see it sustaining, though. Once fans realize it's just a blue RAW, it'll drop again.



WINNING DA BASED GAWD said:


> Vince will make sure SD doesn't beat RAW ever again.
> 
> Yeah, a big increase so kudos. The hype of the Draft worked. Now it's over and the brand split begins after BG. If those ratings start going back to 2 million views and under, oh man.....


Vince McMahon isn't going to intentionally sabotage his own show that makes him a lot of money and it's utterly ridiculous anyone believes that.


----------



## RatedR10

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

3.17m is a fine number considering it's a new night. They gained over a million viewers, too. The show hasn't been relevant in years.

I'd expect Smackdown to level out around 2.8 - 2.95m week-to-week but the roster is also pretty damn weak aside from the top-5 (Cena, Styles, Wyatt, Ambrose, Orton).


----------



## Wynter

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

So 2.9-3.2 million is about WWE's ballpark now. This pretty much confirms their base audience. Feels like Raw watchers who don't watch Smackdown arrived to see the drafts. They will need to work really hard to maintain and grow that number. 

Sniffing that 4 again is gonna be a mission and then some :lol

Long terms gains is the name of the game. Short term spikes don't mean anything if WWE doesn't capitalize and the fans don't have any faith in WWE not fucking this up.


----------



## Reotor

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Not a bad number at all considering the state of the product.
Too bad its all down hill from here, the draft made sure Smackdown is inferior in almost every category and unless Smackdown will pull something out of the hat in the form of superior booking and storytelling it will quickly go back to its original ratings.


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



RatedR10 said:


> 3.17m is a fine number considering it's a new night. They gained over a million viewers, too. The show hasn't been relevant in years.
> 
> I'd expect Smackdown to level out around 2.8 - 2.95m week-to-week but the roster is also pretty damn weak aside from the top-5 (Cena, Styles, Wyatt, Ambrose, Orton).


2.9 million regularly? No offense, but what the hell?
2.9 will be the Raw average this fall if they are lucky, not Smackdown.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Great number. I don't understand why people feel SD got raped in this draft. The biggest stars in the company are on it -- Cena and Orton. Their biggest acquisition is there too in Styles. 

The actual draft was so so as their wasn't any major surprises. I think people tuned in for that reason. If SD can stay in the high 2s I'd consider that a success.


----------



## Ace

That's a decent number.

A 1m increase is NO joke, obviously they're unlikely to sustain it but they still already have a win over Raw. 

They usually had most of the roster (other than Cena) work SD's before the draft.



The Boy Wonder said:


> Great number. I don't understand why people feel SD got raped in this draft. The biggest stars in the company are on it -- Cena and Orton. Their biggest acquisition is there too in Styles.
> 
> The actual draft was so so as their wasn't any major surprises. I think people tuned in for that reason. If SD can stay in the high 2s I'd consider that a success.


 They're not going to sustain that number, but as long as the show is written well, there is no reason they cannot slowly build up to that number. It's Raw that is going to struggle after losing their main event.


----------



## Chrome

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> That's a decent number.
> 
> A 1m increase is NO joke, obviously they're unlikely to sustain it but they still already have a win over Raw.
> 
> They usually had most of the roster (other than Cena) work SD's before the draft.


Yeah, the number will likely decrease, but still a great number nonetheless. Just shows people will watch the show if live and they can't just read spoilers anymore. Should've made Smackdown live YEARS ago.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Boy Wonder said:


> Great number. I don't understand why people feel SD got raped in this draft. The biggest stars in the company are on it -- Cena and Orton. Their biggest acquisition is there too in Styles.
> 
> The actual draft was so so as their wasn't any major surprises. I think people tuned in for that reason. If SD can stay in the high 2s I'd consider that a success.


For a show that the actual draft took place on, AND had Raw guys (the entire WWE roster) on it, that is a ghastly number. No competition, no 3rd hour to drag them down. Scary bad number. 

People feel SD got raped because Cena and Orton are stale and haven't drawn anything on TV in years. And outside of that their next two biggest names are Dean Ambrose and AJ Styles..


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

People thinking this SD number is because SD is live.

:ha :ha :ha

:heston


----------



## RatedR10

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Raw-Is-Botchamania said:


> 2.9 million regularly? No offense, but what the hell?
> 2.9 will be the Raw average this fall if they are lucky, not Smackdown.


Tuesday's generally a weaker night for television, plus it's a two-hour show, so it's much easier to sit through.

Honestly, though, when football, basketball and hockey start up I think they'll dip to the mid-2 millions. I think they'll sustain around 2.9m through the summer, though.


----------



## Ace

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ShowStopper said:


> For a show that the actual draft took place on, AND had Raw guys (the entire WWE roster) on it, that is a ghastly number. No competition, no 3rd hour to drag them down. Scary bad number.
> 
> People feel SD got raped because Cena and Orton are stale and haven't drawn anything on TV in years. And outside of that their next two biggest names are Dean Ambrose and AJ Styles..


 Balor and Reigns weren't on the show. 

The only Raw star on it was Seth and we already know he isn't a draw.

Smackdown's GM is a bigger draw than anyone on the Raw roster, probably a bigger draw than the whole Raw roster combined :lol


----------



## PlKACHU

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Both shows are going to suck, but in terms of quality, Smackdown has to be better than RAW.



2 hours long
Star power (Cena & Orton)
No Michael Cole
No Stephanie McMahon
No Shield rivalry
No New Day segments


----------



## The Boy Wonder

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> Balor and Reigns weren't on the show.
> 
> The only Raw star on it was Seth and we already know he isn't a draw.
> 
> Smackdown's GM is a bigger draw than anyone on the Raw roster, probably a bigger draw than the whole Raw roster combined :lol


Bryan has drawing power, no doubt. But even if he was wrestling he wouldn't have the appeal he had in 2013. He benefited greatly from working with a fresh authority angle. Now Stephanie and Triple H have become stale characters.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> Balor and Reigns weren't on the show.
> 
> The only Raw star on it was Seth and we already know he isn't a draw.
> 
> Smackdown's GM is a bigger draw than anyone on the Raw roster, probably a bigger draw than the whole Raw roster combined :lol



And no one SD's roster is a draw, either..

Last night's show, with the Draft, compared to a normal Raw, the previous night only drew 40,000 (3.17 vs. 3.13 million) more viewers than a regular, non-Draft Raw. And this was a SD with the entire roster on it. A show without a 3rd hour to drag it down. No competition, either.

Horrible and very scary for WWE.


----------



## Ace

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ShowStopper said:


> *And no one SD's roster is a draw*, either..
> 
> Last night's show, with the Draft, compared to a normal Raw, the previous night only drew 40,000 (3.17 vs. 3.13 million) more viewers than a regular, non-Draft Raw. And this was a SD with the entire roster on it. A show without a 3rd hour to drag it down. No competition, either.
> 
> Horrible and very scary for WWE.


 SD has the WWE's only FT draw with Cena.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> SD has the WWE's only FT draw with Cena.


In that case, a show with Cena and the draft on it should have no problem drawing at *least* in the mid 3's, then..


----------



## Lothario

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Oh, boy. I see battle lines already being drawn.



"My guy is on RAW and we're going to beat you.."

"My guy is on SD and we're gonna win.."


:lol The bickering over who draws more should be more entertaining than the actual shows. I'm hoping SD wins more often only for giggles.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*7/19 Smackdown/Draft TV Rating pops to nearly match Raw

By James Caldwell, PWTorch assistant editor

The Live Smackdown premiere/one-time WWE Draft event led to a huge surge in Smackdown’s TV audience Tuesday night on USA Network, almost beating Raw the previous night.

WWE Smackdown TV Ratings Tracking

July 19: The Tuesday night premiere scored a 2.20 TV rating, setting a high-mark for Smackdown entering a new era.

Smackdown nearly topped Raw the night before, which drew a 2.22 rating leading into the Live Smackdown/Draft special.

Previously on Thursday nights, Smackdown was ranging in the 1.5-1.6 ratings, representing a 40 percent jump for the Live premiere.

– Smackdown Live drew 3.190 million viewers, more than 1.0 million more than what last Thursday’s show drew.

Monday’s Raw drew 3.204 million viewers, just edging out Smackdown.

– DEMOGRAPHICS: Smackdown jumped off the page with Tuesday night’s ratings compared to the last Thursday episode.

Adults 18-49 jumped 111 percent to a 1.18 rating
Males 18-34 jumped 198 percent to a 1.49 rating after drawing a 0.50 rating last Thursday; a gain of nearly one full TV rating point
Males 18-49 jumped 154 percent to a 1.50 rating
– Historically, the last time Smackdown topped a 2.0 TV rating was a year-and-a-half ago for a Live Smackdown on January 29, 2015 when Smackdown moved to Thursday nights on Syfy.

The last time Smackdown topped a 2.2 rating was a live Smackdown on USA Network on December 18, 2012 during the “WWE Week” run on USA.

Caldwell’s Analysis: This was certainly a one-time pop with the Draft and Live Smackdown premiere on the same night, but it gives Smackdown some momentum going forward. It’s unlikely the show hits a 2.2 next week, but if Smackdown can stay above a 2.0 most weeks, WWE and USA Network will be pleased.*

http://www.pwtorch.com/site/2016/07/20/719-wwe-smackdowndraft-tv-rating-pops-nearly-match-raw/


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



RatedR10 said:


> Tuesday's generally a weaker night for television, plus it's a two-hour show, so it's much easier to sit through.
> 
> Honestly, though, when football, basketball and hockey start up I think they'll dip to the mid-2 millions. I think they'll sustain around 2.9m through the summer, though.


Smackdown's average in the Summer will not be beyond 2.5 million. No fucking way the way this disaster is booked.
And 2.5 will be Raw's number this fall.


----------



## Starbuck

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ShowStopper said:


> For a show that the actual draft took place on, AND had Raw guys (the entire WWE roster) on it, that is a *ghastly number.* No competition, no 3rd hour to drag them down. *Scary bad number*.





ShowStopper said:


> And no one SD's roster is a draw, either..
> 
> Last night's show, with the Draft, compared to a normal Raw, the previous night only drew 40,000 (3.17 vs. 3.13 million) more viewers than a regular, non-Draft Raw. And this was a SD with the entire roster on it. A show without a 3rd hour to drag it down. No competition, either.
> 
> *Horrible and very scary for WWE*.


:lol Chill with the hyperbole. This is a fantastic number for SD/Draft. What, did you think they were magically going to pull an extra 3 million viewers out of thin air? Talk about unrealistic expectations. This show was never going to sniff 4 million. Not even close. This is the furthest thing from a 'ghastly, horrible and scary' number lol. It's right about what the show should have done given the current climate.


----------



## Chrome

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Lothario said:


> Oh, boy. I see battle lines already being drawn.
> 
> 
> 
> "My guy is on RAW and we're going to beat you.."
> 
> "My guy is on SD and we're gonna win.."
> 
> 
> :lol The bickering over who draws more should be more entertaining than the actual shows. I'm hoping SD wins more often only for giggles.


Brand mark wars. :mark:


----------



## Ace

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Chrome said:


> Brand mark wars. :mark:


 Are going to get a feature which allow us to show our brand colors? :smile2:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Starbuck said:


> :lol Chill with the hyperbole. This is a fantastic number for SD/Draft. What, did you think they were magically going to pull an extra 3 million viewers out of thin air? Talk about unrealistic expectations. This show was never going to sniff 4 million. Not even close. This is the furthest thing from a 'ghastly, horrible and scary' number lol. It's right about what the show should have done given the current climate.


I would agree if this was a regular edition of SD. But for the one where the Draft was held? Getting the standard Raw number for the past year, without a 3rd hour to drag it down? I guess I should've had lower expectations for the actual draft itself.


----------



## Starbuck

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> Are going to get a feature which allow us to show our brand colors? :smile2:


Make sure you include yellow.

:bosstrips



ShowStopper said:


> I would agree if this was a regular edition of SD. But for the one where the Draft was held? Getting the standard Raw number for the past year, without a 3rd hour to drag it down? I guess I should've had lower expectations for the actual draft itself.


So what if it got standard Raw numbers? Raw has been on the same night at the same time for over 20 years. It IS the flagship as much as WWE harps on about it. I really don't know what the hell you were expecting this show to do if you think this is bad. Raw hasn't had 4 million viewers in years. What the hell makes you think they're all going to come out of the woodwork to watch a show they never watched before, on a new night they probably don't about just because it's the draft?


----------



## Chrome

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> Are going to get a feature which allow us to show our brand colors? :smile2:


Nah, don't think we need something like that. Just put what brand you prefer in your sig or something.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

So, Raw actually got the slightly higher rating; with SD having the actual draft AND no 3rd hour to drag them down. :lol

Come on. That is odd. The increase, due to SD's death these past few years is nice, but the actual numbers on their own aren't any good. Can't even beat a 3 hour Raw? And yes, Raw's number was bad, too.



Starbuck said:


> Make sure you include yellow.
> 
> :bosstrips
> 
> 
> 
> So what if it got standard Raw numbers? Raw has been on the same night at the same time for over 20 years. It IS the flagship as much as WWE harps on about it. I really don't know what the hell you were expecting this show to do if you think this is bad. Raw hasn't had 4 million viewers in years. What the hell makes you think they're all going to come out of the woodwork to watch a show they never watched before, on a new night they probably don't about just because it's the draft?


Just because it's the draft? Huh? It's...the draft. It's absolutely the biggest thing WWE has done in quite a few years, actually. What in the actual... :lol


----------



## Lothario

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Chrome said:


> Brand mark wars. :mark:


----------



## Starbuck

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ShowStopper said:


> Just because it's the draft? Huh? It's...the draft. It's absolutely the biggest thing WWE has done in quite a few years, actually. What in the actual... :lol


It's the biggest thing WWE has done in years _to the people who are still watching_. What don't you understand about that? The erosion of viewers over the past 2 years specifically is proof positive that people have tuned out. You really think that just because WWE held a draft that 3 million of them are going to come back? WWE hyped this draft for about a week. Up until this weekend nobody even knew the rules. They barely mentioned it on TV. You're acting like this is some big huge thing when in reality it's just another fumbled ball to add to the long list of others that have contributed to people slowly but surely tuning out. Expecting some magical number purely because of the draft is honestly a bit stupid. No offense but you have to be some sort of naive to believe it was going to pull in an extra 2 million people. It basically pulled in the Raw audience who don't usually watch SD because those people are all that's left.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Starbuck said:


> It's the biggest thing WWE has done in years _to the people who are still watching_. What don't you understand about that? The erosion of viewers over the past 2 years specifically is proof positive that people have tuned out. You really think that just because WWE held a draft that 3 million of them are going to come back? WWE hyped this draft for about a week. Up until this weekend nobody even knew the rules. They barely mentioned it on TV. You're acting like this is some big huge thing when in reality it's just another fumbled ball to add to the long list of others that have contributed to people slowly but surely tuning out. Expecting some magical number purely because of the draft is honestly a bit stupid. No offense but you have to be some sort of naive to believe it was going to pull in an extra 2 million people. It basically pulled in the Raw audience who don't usually watch SD because those people are all that's left.


No, it is the biggest thing WWE has done for anyone and everyone. They are doing this brand split in hopes of bringing at least some of the old audience back. This was a nice increase from what SD has been recently, but if this is the absolute ceiling of SD, even with the actual draft on it, than yeah, that is pretty disappointing overall.

And no offense, but everytime you have a disagreement with someone you always somehow belittle their intelligence or make statements like "I have no idea what you are saying." or just flatout call them stupid. That says alot, tbh. Feel free to not respond. I promise I will be able to move on.


----------



## Starbuck

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ShowStopper said:


> *No, it is the biggest thing WWE has done for anyone and everyone. * They are doing this brand split in hopes of bringing at least some of the old audience back. This was a nice increase from what SD has been recently, but if this is the absolute ceiling of SD, even with the actual draft on it, than yeah, that is pretty disappointing overall.
> 
> And no offense, but everytime you have a disagreement with someone you always somehow belittle their intelligence or make statements like "I have no idea what you are saying." or just flatout call them stupid. That says alot, tbh. Feel free to not respond. I promise I will be able to move on.


Lol, what? You just said yourself that they are doing the brand split _in hopes of_ bringing people back. That isn't going to happen in one night. You know that Raw ratings are tanking and you know that there are no draws on this roster yet you somehow expect Smackdown to pop some incredible number drafting a roster that doesn't draw? I have asked you about 3 times now to say what type of rating/viewership you were expecting this show to get and so far all you've done is talk in circles and make baseless statements like the bolded. 

Why would I take offense to other people not being able to articulate their points and/or saying stupid things? Feel free to not respond? Lol why wouldn't I respond? We're all adults here and we're having a discussion. If you want to end it then end it. There's no need to get on your soapbox and make an announcement.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Starbuck said:


> Lol, what? You just said yourself that they are doing the brand split _in hopes of_ bringing people back. That isn't going to happen in one night. You know that Raw ratings are tanking and you know that there are no draws on this roster yet you somehow expect Smackdown to pop some incredible number drafting a roster that doesn't draw? I have asked you about 3 times now to say what type of rating/viewership you were expecting this show to get and so far all you've done is talk in circles and make baseless statements like the bolded.
> 
> Why would I take offense to other people not being able to articulate their points and/or saying stupid things? Feel free to not respond? Lol why wouldn't I respond? We're all adults here and we're having a discussion. If you want to end it then end it. There's no need to get on your soapbox and make an announcement.


I literally feel like I am talking to myself here. I was expecting a viewership in the mid 3 millions. Considering the draft took place last night and it had been announced in advance, I don't think that was really expecting much, especially without a third hour to drag down the viewership. But maybe my expectations were too high for even that..

I've articulated my points just fine, just like everytime we interact. It's not my fault you're not taking them in. You're the one who got on your soapbox by taking the first shot and kinda/sorta calling me stupid. :shrug If you're going to say something like that, expect a response. Simple as that.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Speaking of brand mark wars, I'm Team Smackdown. The flagship RAW shall soon be a dilapidated boat.















:yes


----------



## Starbuck

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

^^^ When MNF hits, Raw is dead. I won't be surprised in the slightest to see SD beat Raw from Sept through December. 



ShowStopper said:


> I literally feel like I am talking to myself here. *I was expecting a viewership in the mid 3 millions*. Considering the draft took place last night and it had been announced in advance, I don't think that was really expecting much, especially without a third hour to drag down the viewership. But maybe my expectations were too high for even that..
> 
> I've articulated my points just fine, just like everytime we interact. It's not my fault you're not taking them in. You're the one who got on your soapbox by taking the first shot and kinda/sorta calling me stupid. :shrug If you're going to say something like that, expect a response. Simple as that.


There we go! So you were thinking mid 3 million and it actually got 3.1 million. I guess I can see why you would think that's a huge disappointment. If only you actually said that instead of making OH MY GOD SCARY HORRIBLE GHASTLY RATINGS posts for 3 pages. 

I see your point... _now_ that you have quantified it. The way you were talking earlier I was expecting you to hit me with 7 million people to tune in for the draft. And yeah, I do think it's a bit stupid and naive to expect some insane number out of nowhere. That's why I said it. At least now I know you were mostly trolling more than anything else. That makes a difference. You make solid points but you really need to calm down with the hyperbole on certain things. You expected 3.5, the result was 3.1 and you were acting like the sky was falling. Just chill out a bit. 

Besides, Smackdown isn't touching this type of number again probably until Wrestlemania season next year so technically you're right I suppose. 

:draper2


----------



## Marv95

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

TBF this show was hyped up for weeks with the possibilities of surprises/debuts/returns. That's not a "great" number.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Starbuck said:


> ^^^ When MNF hits, Raw is dead. I won't be surprised in the slightest to see SD beat Raw from Sept through December.
> 
> 
> 
> There we go! So you were thinking mid 3 million and it actually got 3.1 million. I guess I can see why you would think that's a huge disappointment. If only you actually said that instead of making OH MY GOD SCARY HORRIBLE GHASTLY RATINGS posts for 3 pages.
> 
> I see your point... _now_ that you have quantified it. The way you were talking earlier I was expecting you to hit me with 7 million people to tune in for the draft. And yeah, I do think it's a bit stupid and naive to expect some insane number out of nowhere. That's why I said it. At least now I know you were mostly trolling more than anything else. That makes a difference. You make solid points but you really need to calm down with the hyperbole on certain things. You expected 3.5, the result was 3.1 and you were acting like the sky was falling. Just chill out a bit.
> 
> Besides, Smackdown isn't touching this type of number again probably until Wrestlemania season next year so technically you're right I suppose.
> 
> :draper2


SD has no excuse not to be beating Raw when Football starts, I agree with that. Between NFL games and having that 3rd hour, there is no reason for SD to not be beating Raw from September to December. THAT would be a major disappointment for SD if they aren't, at least, IMO. Just because the NFL is a monster, as we all know.

I don't know, when the first draft in a decade starts, I absolutely expected more than 3 million viewers (3.1, whatever). Maybe I'm a 'fool' for that. Maybe I had that line of thinking because a brand split, IMO, is pretty much the very last thing Vince has up his sleeve to improve the ratings and product, and if this doesn't work, I don't see what else he can possibly do, you know? :shrug Outside, of course, of just doing things the right way and having better writers write quality stories with the right performers in the correct alignment, of course. This brand split is Vince's last gasp for air, unless when it does fail, he actually decides to do the right thing. Maybe that's why I was surprised by the number. I don't know. Anyway, have a good one.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Smackdown being up a million viewers is a good thing. Not a great thing, because their television audience is at one of the lowest points it's ever been, but it's "good." 

Still, I don't see how the numbers go up or they get new viewers back in the foreseeable future. Rollins and Reigns can't feud with each other forever, Owens needs some work to be considered a main eventer, Cena's not a huge difference maker anymore, Brock's hardly around and is feuding with a Smackdown guy, Dean's damaged goods, etc. These guys are all split in half now, so their options for opponents are limited. 

Let's see how different Raw and Smackdown really wind up being, and if any of those differences actually wind up being attractions to people.


----------



## RatedR10

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Having super high expectations for Smackdown's viewership numbers was setting yourself up for disappointment in the first place. Sure, it's the draft, but as indicated by Raw's viewership, WWE's "base viewership" (aka, hardcore and loyal fans) are in the 3m range. That's the number Smackdown got - they got the base and loyal viewers. 

For a show that has been irrelevant for a long, long time, getting pretty much all of the loyal viewers is nothing to worry about at all. It's the viewership to follow.


----------



## wwetna1

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Marv95 said:


> TBF this show was hyped up for weeks with the possibilities of surprises/debuts/returns. That's not a "great" number.


by who? wrestlezone, meltzzer, dirt sheets r us? 

WWE never once said anyone would return or advertised anyone for the draft. They never even released details of the selection process. They always said they would detail it on their site. They told you who was eligible, who was ineligible, who could be grouped into a signle pick, round structure, and nxt pick allotment slots. They never once misled or under delivered. 

But I know you read about RVD, Dreamer, Carlito, new intros, ropes, stages, etc ... Yet you ignore WWE themselves saying the changes won't take place to the Monday following Battleground which was the last time they would all be together as a whole roster. You ignore Renee, Lita, Booker, and Graves announcing last night that they were told the two brands after battleground will only come together 4 times a year. You ignore that it was confirmed by Shane/Bryan on the network Raw has the tag and womens title exclusively for themsleves but they have the WWE and IC titles basically implying they will all need to make their own and the champs won't be crossing shows like Alvarez and Meltzer said before thus keeping a hard split.


----------



## 4everEyebrowRaisin

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It'll tank again next week, so what the fuck does it matter?


----------



## RKO 4life

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I am not going to put up with us losing to Raw.

I want each and everyone of you to read this and get ready for SD. Just 5 more days away. Mark out again like we are school kids ready for WCW vs WWF in the mid 90's.

I want higher ratings, lets get this thing to 3.0 again.


----------



## The Tempest

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



RKO 4life said:


> I am not going to put up with us losing to Raw.
> 
> I want each and everyone of you to read this and get ready for SD. Just 5 more days away. Mark out again like we are school kids ready for WCW vs WWF in the mid 90's.
> 
> I want higher ratings, lets get this thing to 3.0 again.


"Us"?

Lord, this is already starting to get cringeworthy as fuck :chan


----------



## Godway

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

That's a fucking fantastic bump for SD, I don't know what the hell some of you are talking about. What did you expect? A gain of 3 million new viewers or something? SD's ratings have been beneath the toilet for a very long time. If they can keep a good amount of that audience they're sitting pretty good. A lot better than RAW, since SD will be the much more accessible show at 2 hrs.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

They need to make sure they doing some new and innovative next week. The format of the show cannot be the same as RAW. If they really want to push SD as a "wrestling show" they should probably start a tournament next week to crown the new Tag Team Champions or the new #1 Contender's for the tag team titles. If they have a shortage of tag teams they can just pair guys up.

Tag Teams to use in a tournament:

1 American Alpha
2 The Usos
3 The Ascension
4 Breezango
5 The Vaudevillains
6 The Hype Bros
7 Kalisto and Apollo Crews
8 Bray Wyatt and Erick Rowan


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Can RAW break SD's "streak"?


----------



## LilOlMe

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Oh crap, wrestler marking is now gonna lead to brand marking. These threads are gonna be even more of a shit show. :lol

I think that Smackdown will end up around 2.5 million, give or take. I think that anything above 2.6 million would be surprising and a good sign. 

I don't think that RAW will fall too much from around 3 million. People are programmed to watch that, it has the feeling of far more gravitas (and will probably be treated as such), and that's where all the really important stuff still happens. 

I just don't buy that a lot of fans are gonna switch from there, because I feel what's left is pretty much hardcore fans anyway. Yeah, you have people saying "I'll only watch Smackdown now" but I'm not buying that the reality of that is really plentiful.

At the same time, 5 hours of television in a row is a lot, so I can only see the hardest of the hardcore sticking around for the next night. That's why I think there will be at least a 400,000 or 500,000 difference.

Another thing is that surprisingly, NXT wasn't at the top of the most watched network programs, meanwhile stuff like Swerved was, so that tells me that a show run more like NXT (which I think Smackdown will be) will not necessarily be something that the WWE fans will feel is necessary to watch.




ShowStopper said:


> SD has no excuse not to be beating Raw when Football starts, I agree with that. Between NFL games and having that 3rd hour, there is no reason for SD to not be beating Raw from September to December. THAT would be a major disappointment for SD if they aren't, at least, IMO. Just because the NFL is a monster, as we all know.


How can you say that, though, when you yourself said that Smackdown got MURDERED in the draft?

I just realized that if Dean loses on Sunday, 4 of the 5 champions will be on RAW.

It drives home the point even more that Smackdown is the B show. Viewers take cues from that.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



LilOlMe said:


> Oh crap, wrestler marking is now gonna lead to brand marking. These threads are gonna be even more of a shit show. :lol
> 
> I think that Smackdown will end up around 2.5 million, give or take. I think that anything above 2.6 million would be surprising and a good sign.
> 
> I don't think that RAW will fall too much from around 3 million. People are programmed to watch that, it has the feeling of far more gravitas (and will probably be treated as such), and that's where all the really important stuff still happens.
> 
> I just don't buy that a lot of fans are gonna switch from there, because I feel what's left is pretty much hardcore fans anyway. Yeah, you have people saying "I'll only watch Smackdown now" but I'm not buying that the reality of that is really plentiful.
> 
> At the same time, 5 hours of television in a row is a lot, so I can only see the hardest of the hardcore sticking around for the next night. That's why I think there will be at least a 400,000 or 500,000 difference.
> 
> Another thing is that surprisingly, NXT wasn't at the top of the most watched network programs, meanwhile stuff like Swerved was, so that tells me that a show run more NXT like (which I think Smackdown will be) will not necessarily be something that the WWE fans will feel is necessary to watch.
> 
> 
> 
> How can you say that, though, when you yourself said that Smackdown got MURDERED in the draft?
> 
> I just realized that if Dean loses on Sunday, 4 of the 5 champions will be on RAW.
> 
> It drives home the point even more that Smackdown is the B show. Viewers take cues from what


Because the NFL is a ratings monster. They're going to destroy WWE with or without a brand split. Probably even more-so with the brand split and SD won't have to contend with the NFL, since they moved it from Thursday night (which there are also NFL games played on) to Tuesday.


----------



## LilOlMe

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ShowStopper said:


> Because the NFL is a ratings monster. They're going to destroy WWE with or without a brand split. Probably even more-so with the brand split and SD won't have to contend with the NFL, since they moved it from Thursday night (which there are also NFL games played on) to Tuesday.


But Smackdown did worse than on Friday nights, which is the absolute worst night for tv outside of Saturdays.

I agree that the brand split hurts the depth, which is why it's probably a lousy idea, but that hurts Smackdown just as well.

Raw has football to contend with, and Smackdown has the weaker roster + B show perception to deal with. I don't know if the former is a more valid excuse.


----------



## THREE AIN'T ENOUGH

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The mark wars have already begun! :mark:

On top of smarks, anti-smarks, workrate marks, size marks etc, now we have Raw marks and SD marks. :lelbrock


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



LilOlMe said:


> But Smackdown did worse than on Friday nights, which is the absolute worst night for tv outside of Saturdays.
> 
> I agree that the brand split hurts the depth, which is why it's probably a lousy idea, but that hurts Smackdown just as well.
> 
> Raw has football to contend with, and Smackdown has the weaker roster + B show perception to deal with. I don't know if the former is a more valid excuse.


I don't know...it's the NFL. They obliterate the WWE every year, and more and more seemingly every year. Raw also has 3 hours to contend and that 3rd hour always hurts their overall number, too. 

Both shows have their issues, though. If I was Vince, I would always be more and more fearful every Fall due to the NFL. It's just such a ratings beast, it's crazy.


----------



## LilOlMe

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ShowStopper said:


> I don't know...it's the NFL. They obliterate the WWE every year, and more and more seemingly every year. Raw also has 3 hours to contend and that 3rd hour always hurts their overall number, too.
> 
> Both shows have their issues, though. If I was Vince, I would always be more and more fearful every Fall due to the NFL. It's just such a ratings beast, it's crazy.


I personally believe that it's harder to build something than to maintain it. 

RAW does at worst, what, 2.9 million around football time? Smackdown is starting from around 2.1 million. It's pretty unrealistic to expect paths to cross when those numbers are starting so differently, IMO. Especially because Vince's heart is pretty clearly with RAW, as are pretty much all of his favorites. The latter reflects the importance & resources he places on RAW.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



LilOlMe said:


> I personally believe that it's harder to build something than to maintain it.
> 
> RAW does at worst, what, 2.9 million around football time? Smackdown is starting from around 2.1 million. It's pretty unrealistic to expect paths to cross when those numbers are starting so differently, IMO. Especially because Vince's heart is pretty clearly with RAW, as are pretty much all of his favorites. The latter reflects the importance & resources he places on RAW.


The thing is, ever since late 2015, with even a full roster, the 3rd hour of Raw has hit 2.9 (and even lower) multiple times, without even contending with the NFL. It's only going to get worse once football season starts.


----------



## AlternateDemise

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ShowStopper said:


> For a show that the actual draft took place on, AND had Raw guys (the entire WWE roster) on it, that is a ghastly number. No competition, no 3rd hour to drag them down. Scary bad number.
> 
> People feel SD got raped because Cena and Orton are stale and haven't drawn anything on TV in years. And outside of that their next two biggest names are Dean Ambrose and AJ Styles..


1. Damn dude, you're acting as if Smackdown got a 1.5 in the ratings or something. This is a good start. It's not anything terrific, but it's something to move with going forward. And I would consider the RNC to be competition but that's just me.

2. Who the hell said Smackdown got raped in the draft? I honestly think they got the better overall roster despite it being smaller.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



AlternateDemise said:


> 1. Damn dude, you're acting as if Smackdown got a 1.5 in the ratings or something. This is a good start. It's not anything terrific, but it's something to move with going forward. And I would consider the RNC to be competition but that's just me.
> 
> 2. Who the hell said Smackdown got raped in the draft? I honestly think they got the better overall roster despite it being smaller.


It was alright. Should've been alot better with the draft taking place, though.

Everywhere I'v seen, podcasts, sites, etc. But it is to be expected that a show with 3 hours is deeper.


----------



## Ace

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ShowStopper said:


> It was alright. Should've been alot better with the draft taking place, though.
> 
> Everywhere I'v seen, podcasts, sites, etc. But it is to be expected that a show with 3 hours is deeper.


 Lets get real here. If they actually book Smackdown well, it will be the #1 show. They have the bigger stars and only have 2 hours, meaning less filler crap between the important stuff. They could realistically have 3 top feuds going on plus tag matches and a few womens feuds.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



LilOlMe said:


> I personally believe that it's harder to build something than to maintain it.
> 
> RAW does at worst, what, 2.9 million around football time? Smackdown is starting from around 2.1 million. It's pretty unrealistic to expect paths to cross when those numbers are starting so differently, IMO. Especially because Vince's heart is pretty clearly with RAW, as are pretty much all of his favorites. The latter reflects the importance & resources he places on RAW.


Raw _did_ 2.9 million at worst around football time, but we'll see how they do as soon as MNF comes back in 2016. If they're hovering around 3 million before football, if a dip kicks in, their ceiling could be the 2.6 million they did on July 4th.

We're going to find out in the coming month or two how the shows will be quality-wise. 

I don't know about Raw for the immediate future. I know I'm not personally excited to see Reigns vs Rollins as the main feud for another month and I think it's past its peak, assuming that's the SummerSlam match. Raw also doesn't have Cena, Orton, or Styles now. Brock may have a bit of an influence going into SummerSlam, mostly because of his recent controversy, but I doubt he sticks around into September.

Raw has a stronger midcard and more variety, but without a strong A-story, the stakes will be lower. I can't think of a wrestling promotion that's ever thrived with a strong midcard and a tame main event scene.

With that said, 3.0 million people is considered a bump for Smackdown. That likely goes away in the next month.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> Lets get real here. If they actually book Smackdown well, it will be the #1 show. They have the bigger stars and only have 2 hours, meaning less filler crap between the important stuff. They could realistically have 3 top feuds going on plus tag matches and a few womens feuds.


There top guys are Cena, Orton (most stale guys in the company by miles), AJ, and Dean? That's a weak as fuck main event. The mid card is even worse. They are paper thin in both main event and especially the mid card level. The only thing that hurts Raw is the third hour, bro. Top guys that are much younger, the entire cruiserweight division, best tag teams (Enzo/Cass, New Day, Club) best women (Sasha & Charlotte). But whatever. I'm not going to get into mark wars for the same freaking company :lol You're all about it, go for it. I'm not doing it. I'm happy with Raw outside of the 3rd hour.


----------



## Ace

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ShowStopper said:


> There top guys are Cena, Orton (most stale guys in the company by miles), AJ, and Dean? *That's a weak as fuck main event*. The mid card is even worse. The only thing that hurts Raw is the third hour, bro. Top guys that are much younger, the entire cruiserweight division, best tag teams (Enzo/Cass, New Day, Club) best women (Sasha & Charlotte). But whatever. I'm not going to get into mark wars for the same freaking company :lol You're all about it, go for it. I'm not doing it. I'm happy with Raw outside of the 3rd hour.


 Oh the irony.

Cena and Orton are bigger stars than Roman or Seth will ever be.

AJ is the best wrestler on the planet and can put on a show in the ring. 

As much as I don't like Ambrose, he still has a pretty strong fan base which will help get more eyes on Smackdown.

Bray finally has a chance of winning the title and could do great things with it, as he would finally be able to deliver on his words, finally allowing for character progression.

Miz is the best pure heel in the WWE and can even have a great run with the WWE title.

Best tag teams? LOL Smackdown has the best tag team in the WWE right now and could easily hit gold with The Revival moving to Smackdown. What the division lacks is competition, that can be easily corrected with a few credible tag teams being added to the division. If I were to choose AA or a strong tag division, I would take AA in a heartbeat. Jordan and Gable are destined for singles success, they could be the big #1 and #2 they've been looking for since Cena, Batisa and Orton.

As for the Women's division, SD is a hell of a lot fresher and more interesting than the women's version of Seth-Roman they have going on. All they really need is Bayley to put it clear ahead.

The only aspect Raw beats SD is the midcard. Even then, those guys have faced each so many times already that their encounters have no meaning (Owens-Cesaro, Zayn-Owens, etc.)


----------



## Ace

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Top guys are much younger? That's all you have lmao. Seth and Roman are not top guy material. 

Cena and Orton, the old guard are so far ahead of them it isn't funny. They are the last of the stars that have name value.

Both Seth and Roman have been given the rocket push for the last 4 years and are still no names who can't move the needle in anyway. You could put anyone in their position and it would be difficult for them to do worse.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> Oh the irony.
> 
> Cena and Orton are bigger stars than Roman or Seth will ever be.
> 
> AJ is the best wrestler on the planet and can put on a show in the ring.
> 
> As much as I don't like Ambrose, he still has a pretty strong fan base which will help get more eyes on Smackdown.
> 
> Bray finally has a chance of winning the title and could do great things with it, as he would finally be able to deliver on his words, finally allowing for character progression.
> 
> Miz is the best pure heel in the WWE and can even have a great run with the WWE title.
> 
> Best tag teams? LOL Smackdown has the best tag team in the WWE right now and could easily hit gold with The Revival moving to Smackdown. What the division lacks is competition, that can be easily corrected with a few credible tag teams being added to the division. If I were to choose AA or a strong tag division, I would take AA in a heartbeat. Jordan and Gable are destined for singles success, they could be the big #1 and #2 they've been looking for since Cena, Batisa and Orton.
> 
> As for the Women's division, SD is a hell of a lot fresher and more interesting than the women's version of Seth-Roman they have going on. All they really need is Bayley to put it clear ahead.
> 
> The only aspect Raw beats SD is the midcard. Even then, those guys have faced each so many times already that their encounters have no meaning (Owens-Cesaro, Zayn-Owens, etc.)


Cena and Orton on Raw drew shitty numbers, too. Cena coming back did nothing. They are the most stale guys on the roster by MILES. AJ being the best wrestler in the world, which is your opinion, doesn't matter in the least in this conversation. The irony of you mentioning Ambrose in a positive way makes this all the more laughable.

The Revival? Cool, one good team that a part of the fanbase doesn't even know about. Stiil just one team. Sasha and Charlotte is stale? Not by main roster standards it isn't. Sasha was off the show for MONTHS up until recently. :lol

Again, I have no interest in getting into mark wars over two shows produced by the same company anymore. It is extremely childish and corny. All of your posts are extremely into nothing but mark wars, not only with this, but even with just the wrestlers in general. I'm not engaging it anymore. Have fun.


----------



## validreasoning

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Stale or not but sds has more variety in their mainevent

There are 8 ppvs for each brand between now and the next draft assuming next draft takes place after wm33 (actually 9 ppvs but rumble match is mainevent so coming up with a fresh match for that show isn't that important)

Ok now assuming brock works only summerslam and wm33 between now and then that leaves raw still needing to come up with 7 ppv mainevents without brock. Reigns and rollins will likely mainevent 2 ppvs..after that you are really taking a chance. Do you immediately put balor in main event or push owens/zayn/cesaro into their first ever singles ppv match or do you use a 45 year old Jericho in that spot. Out if the box booking would have the women or tag teams (new day vs enzo/cass or club) maineventing

SD possible mainevents:
Styles vs cena 2 will obviously happen at summerslam and part 3 to end feud
Styles vs bray
Styles vs ambrose
Styles vs Orton
Wyatt vs orton
Orton vs ambrose

That's 7 of 8 possible mainevents and outside of cena vs styles they are all fresh matchups


----------



## Starbuck

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



validreasoning said:


> Stale or not but sds has more variety in their mainevent
> 
> There are 8 ppvs for each brand between now and the next draft assuming next draft takes place after wm33 (actually 9 ppvs but rumble match is mainevent so coming up with a fresh match for that show isn't that important)
> 
> Ok now assuming brock works only summerslam and wm33 between now and then that leaves raw still needing to come up with 7 ppv mainevents without brock. Reigns and rollins will likely mainevent 2 ppvs..after that you are really taking a chance. Do you immediately put balor in main event or push owens/zayn/cesaro into their first ever singles ppv match or do you use a 45 year old Jericho in that spot. Out if the box booking would have the women or tag teams (new day vs enzo/cass or club) maineventing
> 
> SD possible mainevents:
> Styles vs cena 2 will obviously happen at summerslam and part 3 to end feud
> Styles vs bray
> Styles vs ambrose
> Styles vs Orton
> Wyatt vs orton
> Orton vs ambrose
> 
> That's 7 of 8 possible mainevents and outside of cena vs styles they are all fresh matchups


Yeah, the Raw main events are going to be rather curious. Unless they are planning to hit us with Reigns vs Rollins for the rest of the year, which I honestly wouldn't be surprised at tbh, what and who are going to be the planned feuds going forward. SD has a lot of established talent that can easily slot into a main event for the title. Raw has Reigns, Rollins and Jericho pretty much because Brock won't be around. So either we're getting Reigns and Rollins forever or they actually are going to get creative and move some guys up like Zayn, Owens and more specifically Balor. 

Balor/Rollins
Balor/Reigns
Balor/Zayn
Balor/Jericho
Jericho/Reigns
Jericho/Rollins
Owens/Rollins
Owens/Reigns
Zayn/Reigns
Zayn/Rollins

There's plenty they can do but not a lot of those matches _feel_ like real main event matches, especially when compared with what SD can provide with established names like Cena, Orton and Ambrose in the mix. Jobs on Raw to make these guys look legit. Then it won't matter.


----------



## The Tempest

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> Oh the irony.
> 
> Cena and Orton are bigger stars than Roman or Seth will ever be.
> 
> AJ is the best wrestler on the planet and can put on a show in the ring.
> 
> As much as I don't like Ambrose, he still has a pretty strong fan base which will help get more eyes on Smackdown.
> 
> Bray finally has a chance of winning the title and could do great things with it, as he would finally be able to deliver on his words, finally allowing for character progression.
> 
> Miz is the best pure heel in the WWE and can even have a great run with the WWE title.
> 
> Best tag teams? LOL Smackdown has the best tag team in the WWE right now and could easily hit gold with The Revival moving to Smackdown. What the division lacks is competition, that can be easily corrected with a few credible tag teams being added to the division. If I were to choose AA or a strong tag division, I would take AA in a heartbeat. Jordan and Gable are destined for singles success, they could be the big #1 and #2 they've been looking for since Cena, Batisa and Orton.
> 
> As for the Women's division, SD is a hell of a lot fresher and more interesting than the women's version of Seth-Roman they have going on. All they really need is Bayley to put it clear ahead.
> 
> The only aspect Raw beats SD is the midcard. Even then, those guys have faced each so many times already that their encounters have no meaning (Owens-Cesaro, Zayn-Owens, etc.)


White knighting SmackDown (Or RAW) this hard is, quite honestly, embarassing. It's useless, you just end up looking like a fool in the process. Both shows have their strong points, as well as weak points. I get it, your fave AJ is on SD so of course you're gonna shit the other show because reasons, but just stop.


----------



## Joshi Judas

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I'd rather watch Reigns/Rollins than Cena/Orton but whatever.

Then you have Zayn, Owens and Balor, while SD has Styles, Ambrose and Wyatt. Ambrose and Wyatt do nothing for me atm, while Zayn and Owens are pretty great. Add in Rusev, Cesaro and the CW division and Raw wins easily.

People hyping Cena and Orton's star power, I hope you're real happy when they hog the title spot for the 11th year.


----------



## Ace

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Tempest said:


> White knighting SmackDown (Or RAW) this hard is, quite honestly, embarassing. It's useless, you just end up looking like a fool in the process. Both shows have their strong points, as well as weak points. I get it, your fave AJ is on SD so of course you're gonna shit the other show because reasons, but just stop.


 If AJ were on Raw in place of Rollins/Reigns. I would have said the same thing, SD > Raw. You can't have a strong show with only 2 top acts (made even worse if they're overexposed and stale like Roman and Rollins). As much hate as Cena and Orton get, they are the last two full time acts in the WWE whose names hold value.

The midcard for Raw is well ahead of SD, but the issue is those guys have faced each other so many times before, that too on the last few months on Raw. I was hoping a few of them would be split allowing for fresher feuds, but that isn't the case at all. 

As for the tag division and women's divison, I'm not a big fan of TND, Enzo & Cass, TC, Charolette or Sasha, so it's not really difficult for me to prefer the SD tag division and women's division. 

The Cruiserweight division is an unknown, but if given the proper time and importance, it could be a huge upside for Raw.

As a whole, there isn't really anything exciting about Raw. They have 3 hours to fill with a much weaker main event scene. The shows were 3 hours of trash before, how are they going to go without half the roster? It's really easy to like SD, for one, it is only 2 hours meaning less fillers and dead air.


----------



## Ace

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Orochimaru Sama said:


> I'd rather watch Reigns/Rollins than* Cena/Orton* but whatever.
> 
> Then you have Zayn, Owens and Balor, while SD has Styles, Ambrose and Wyatt. Ambrose and Wyatt do nothing for me atm, while Zayn and Owens are pretty great. Add in Rusev, Cesaro and the CW division and Raw wins easily.
> 
> People hyping Cena and Orton's star power, I hope you're real happy when they hog the title spot for the 11th year.


 I'd rather watch Cena/Orton. 

Always been a fan of Orton, Cena despite all the hate, has proven he can go in the ring and has been involved in a lot of the biggest feuds, matches and angles in the last 10 years. He is easily a superior overall performer to both Rollins and Reigns, and is probably the best mic worker in the company today. 

Vince was 100% spot on when he chose him to be the FOTC, he has it ALL. What has turned fans on him is his overbooking and stale character, which are no fault of his own. He could have been much bigger than he is now if the WWE hadn't stuck him with the PG character.


----------



## Sincere

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Reigns/Rollins already buried ratings before. I don't see why it'll be any different the second time around, if that's the path they're going forward with for Raw. Reigns' appeal is probably at an all time low at this point, too.


----------



## Ace

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Today's episode is the highest they'll probably ever get. Garbage show top to bottom.


----------



## Shenroe

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Lol @strawhat was all aboard team SD before yesterday but since his precious AJ got pinned he's ready to jump ship :lol


----------



## Ace

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Shenroe said:


> Lol @strawhat was all aboard team SD before yesterday but since his precious AJ got pinned he's ready to jump ship :lol


 Did you see Raw? It was miles better than SD. AJ getting pinned aside, SD was utter garbage. Tonight was THE night to get fans onboard and invested in the show. They failed miserably, don't be shocked to see a huge drop next week.


----------



## Empress

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> Did you see Raw? It was miles better than SD. AJ getting pinned aside, SD was utter garbage. Tonight was THE night to get fans onboard and invested in the show. They failed miserably, don't be shocked to see a huge drop next week.


I almost turned the channel after that jobber fest was the first match. I'll give SD Live a few more weeks, but I'll probably drop it if there's not improvement.

I'm already going through the motions as it is with the WWE.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SD rating has to drop. The show was okay but paled in comparison to RAW.. SDL: Where Jobbers go to die.


----------



## Reotor

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



EL SHIV said:


> SD rating has to drop. The show was okay but paled in comparison to RAW.. *SDL: Where Jobbers go to die*.


Lol sums up Smackdown perfectly
And I'm still reading it as LSD!

I wonder how much the 1st hour will compare to the 2nd.
Anyway ill be genuinely Shocked if next week doesn't have a HUGE drop.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*










*SmackDown viewership 
this week(7/26) Vs last week(7/19) 

2.743M Vs 3.170M (-0.427M/-13.47%)*


----------



## Soul Man Danny B

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

If Smackdown doesn't improve it's quality in the next few weeks, i'm not going back to watching Raw. I'm going back to watching *nothing*.

2.743M is a good number. It's especially good when you consider there was a PPV on Sunday and people watched six hours plus of wrestling.


----------



## D.M.N.

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *SmackDown viewership
> this week(7/26) Vs last week(7/19)
> 
> 2.743M Vs 3.170M
> (-0.427M/-13.47%)*


Excluding the draft, highest number since 21st January 2016 - fourth highest since the move to USA.


----------



## DoubtGin

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

"ok" numbers


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Not even 3 million, 1st show post draft.

This might've been a mistake. Hope that isn't their ceiling.


----------



## Wynter

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Damn, the number dropped even with smackdown having majority of the main eventers. I at least hoped they'd get a 3.0. I wasn't fond of Smackdown at all, but there's potential. I ain't trying to see it fail.


----------



## Empress

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*How Was WWE SmackDown Viewership For Last Night's Live Show With The Six Pack Challenge?*

Source: Showbuzz Daily

Last night's live WWE SmackDown, featuring the first show since the WWE Draft with a Six Pack Challenge in the main event, drew 2.743 million viewers. This is down from last week's show, which drew 3.170 million viewers, and featured the WWE Draft.

SmackDown was #10 for the night in viewership, behind various coverage of the Democratic National Convention and The Haves & The Have Nots.

SmackDown came in at #2 for the night in the 18-49 demographic, behind CNN's coverage of the DNC.

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news...own-viewership-for-last-night-live-show-with/


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *SmackDown viewership
> this week(7/26) Vs last week(7/19)
> 
> 2.743M Vs 3.170M
> (-0.427M/-13.47%)*


*Y-Y viewership and demo comparison:
7/26/16 Vs 7/23/15

2.743M Vs 2.353M (-0.390M/-14.22%)
0.97D Vs 0.59D

Demo comparison:
7/26/16 Vs 7/19/16

1.18D Vs 0.97D

Note:
Both post Battleground SDs.*


----------



## D.M.N.

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Meltzer, yesterday: http://www.f4wonline.com/wwe-news/raw-ratings-rise-strong-post-draft-episode-217346



> They are pushing a Raw vs. SmackDown ratings theme and it would be a huge surprise if the SmackDown rating this week came close to Raw number. If it does, that would indicate stronger curiosity toward the brand split. *Any number stronger than 2.7 million tonight should be considered a success*.


----------



## Soul Man Danny B

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Anyone expecting >3M viewers for last night's show probably expected Daniel Bryan to be wrestling John Cena in the main event of Smackdown for the WWE title.

Short of that, it was never going to crack 3M viewers. They got a very good number. It will be interesting to see how many of those people they manage to retain next week.


----------



## Empress

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



XxPunisherxX said:


> Damn, the number dropped even with smackdown having majority of the main eventers. I at least hoped they'd get a 3.0. I wasn't fond of Smackdown at all, but there's potential. I ain't trying to see it fail.


The show was a letdown. I don't want Smackdown to fail but I'm not surprised by it. 

I would've started the show off with the 6 man match and ended it with a confrontation between Dean and Ziggler. 

Also, Shane and Bryan are both faces. One of them should turn heel to create some tension IMO.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Empress said:


> Also, Shane and Bryan are both faces. One of them should turn heel to create some tension IMO.


I don't know if they need to do that, but yeah, there needs to be a major heel of some kind. 

You can do an all-babyface authority, but then you need someone like Vader to come in and mortally injure one of them and be so good that they have to give him a title shot and he acts with impunity. 

Kevin Owens would be perfect for a top heel on Smackdown type role. There's potential if they turn Ziggler heel, or have AJ be dominant, maybe they could even do something with Bray.

But, it can't be a situation where you have all babyface authority figures, a babyface champion, and babyface championship challengers. Someone needs to disrupt this utopia.


----------



## Godway

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Yep, Meltzer is right, that number should be considered a success. But it sucks that they put on such a shit show for their first solo outing. I'm more curious to see if they put fans off come next week.


----------



## jamesdeen1

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

lol people have no logic. smackdown has been dead for years its still gonna take time, its only week one ffs it needs to re establish itself.


----------



## Empress

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Mifune Jackson said:


> I don't know if they need to do that, but yeah, there needs to be a major heel of some kind.
> 
> You can do an all-babyface authority, but then you need someone like Vader to come in and mortally injure one of them and be so good that they have to give him a title shot and he acts with impunity.
> 
> Kevin Owens would be perfect for a top heel on Smackdown type role. There's potential if they turn Ziggler heel, or have AJ be dominant, maybe they could even do something with Bray.
> 
> But, it can't be a situation where you have all babyface authority figures, a babyface champion, and babyface championship challengers. Someone needs to disrupt this utopia.


I think Ziggler is turning next week. That would be the logical thing.

I'd love to see Kevin Owens go on a monster heel turn. He's been more anti hero these past few months. I know Bryan can't wrestle anymore but if he can take a bump of some kind, Owens should "attack" him. Bryan is still the most over superstar and I think he can be effective in that regard.


----------



## Chrome

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Okaish number I guess, I mean, it was never gonna come close to matching last week's number, when you had a draft and the whole roster available. Show wasn't bad, but paled in comparison to Raw. Hopefully the rating can hold steady as Ziggler and Ambrose begin their feud. Thinking Ziggler needs to turn heel to make it more interesting though.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Number is fine but they failed to put their best foot forward.


----------



## Reotor

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*


----------



## LilOlMe

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



jamesdeen1 said:


> lol people have no logic. smackdown has been dead for years its still gonna take time, its only week one ffs it needs to re establish itself.


Right. a 500,000 or so gain from what they've been averaging is a big success. RAW had no such jump.

Having said that, they're not keeping this. I do believe that it'll settle in around 2.4 - 2.6 million. 

If so, whether increasing 10% to 20% is worth this all or not, I don't know. If RAW can maintain their numbers, then it probably was worth it. Especially if network subscriptions increase with more PPVs now.

I still think that it's just way too much wrestling to watch, and they're gonna burn the audience out. Same thing happened to Who Wants To Be a Millionaire.


----------



## Cipher

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

People don't give a shit about the show that's been made to look like the B show for almost 10 years now?

No waaaay....


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*










The post Battleground, post Draft SD and it's fallout has generated the exact same viewership as the post WM31 taped SD from almost 16 months ago. The overall demo rating is 0.96D now to 0.72D before.


----------



## Shenroe

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



DoubtGin said:


> "ok" numbers


Yep, they're just ok, nothing to brag about. Nothing alarming too


----------



## tboneangle

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

TWD .98 rating? Really? I remember when TNA woudk average a 1.2 rating. Something not right here...


----------



## TheGeneticFreak

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Empress said:


> Also, Shane and Bryan are both faces. One of them should turn heel to create some tension IMO.


I hope not as Cesaro said it should focus on the wrestlers not the authority figures.


----------



## Empress

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



TheGeneticFreak said:


> I hope not as Cesaro said it should focus on the wrestlers not the authority figures.


From what I've seen of Smackdown, I think there's going to be heavy emphasis on Daniel Bryan and Shane McMahon. Personally, I think Bryan overshadows all the other wrestlers but it is what it is. 

Bryan and Shane are just two nice guys. Separately, that's cool. But together? There's no tension. As @Mifune Jackson pointed out, there needs to be someone to break up the utopia. It should be a wrestler, but the WWE hasn't shown any signs of abandoning the "Authority" type angles.


----------



## Cipher

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Empress said:


> The show was a letdown. I don't want Smackdown to fail but I'm not surprised by it.
> 
> I would've started the show off with the 6 man match and ended it with a confrontation between Dean and Ziggler.
> 
> Also, Shane and Bryan are both faces. One of them should turn heel to create some tension IMO.


No, I'm fucking sick of the Authority and heel authority figures.


----------



## wwetna1

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It's measuring stick to start ain't raw, it's sd.

Sd just got its highest rating since coming to USA solo. They also got themselves a sell out in an arena when they spent months tarping it off.

No matter how you slice it this week was s success for SD. I just want to see the hourly breakdown. They will have to work their way up, it may take months to hit Raws numbers


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Empress said:


> From what I've seen of Smackdown, I think there's going to be heavy emphasis on Daniel Bryan and Shane McMahon. Personally, I think Bryan overshadows all the other wrestlers but it is what it is.
> 
> Bryan and Shane are just two nice guys. Separately, that's cool. But together? There's no tension. As @Mifune Jackson pointed out, there needs to be someone to break up the utopia. It should be a wrestler, but the WWE hasn't shown any signs of abandoning the "Authority" type angles.


I know they won't do it because they want him to serve as a cheerleader, but heel Bryan would be fascinating. He makes a great heel. Only problem with that is why wouldn't Shane just fire him? Most likely Shane gives in to his genetics and turns heel.


----------



## ChicagoFit

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Soul Man Danny B said:


> i'm not going back to watching Raw. I'm going back to watching *nothing*.


But there's no difference between the two options


----------



## Shenroe

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



TheGeneticFreak said:


> I hope not as Cesaro said it should focus on the wrestlers not the authority figures.


Yes SD LIVE as it is gives more of a down to earth/real/sport like feel, whereas RAW is more drama, action packed car crash. There's room die both approaches


----------



## Len Hughes Presents

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

That's a fine number considering. I don't get people who expected 3+.


----------



## dougfisher_05

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I'm going to give it a month before I comment. I want to see if the three hour raw canabilizes itself even more and if SD increases once fans realize something of note will be happening on the show each week. 

So... See y'all in another three weeks. Lol.

I will say this. Hopefully John Cena doesn't have a fucken contract expiring soon... Because "the face that runs the place" sure as fuck hasn't done shit for ratings in at least a year now.


----------



## Ace

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I wouldn't be surprised to see it drop to less than 2.5m next week.

That was a week ass pilot episode for SD that exposed SD as the B show that should be skipped.


----------



## wwetna1

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> I wouldn't be surprised to see it drop to less than 2.5m next week.
> 
> That was a week ass pilot episode for SD that exposed SD as the B show that should be skipped.


Yeah because a casual fan watching that saw 
- A full arena that was loud all night
- Miz do a talk show segment all pipers pit style
- ortons first match in 9 months
- Cena and Styles in a main event
- 5 hot chicks and Natty
- return promo of a IC, US, tag champ
- return of ECW original Rhyno 
- Shane McMahon and Daniel Bryan 
- Kane spend a battle royal me dominating
- American Alpha promo for next week

I mean logically they saw a better casual show than what Zayn, Cesaro, and KO have generated for months with declining ratings and attendance. The new ad was never going to be about wrestling especially with Vince and HHH both saying raw being stretched to 3hrs wasn't what they were a fan of but is what it is. Raw was filled with guys who can't cut a promo like Slater for instance cut with their life on the line, and he's mediocre compared to Miz, Cena, Orton, or Wyatt. SD to sell tickets and draw ratings was going to be about selling matches with promos, skits, entertainment and then getting a pay off on a ppv like post brand split raw used to be about it. Raw was going to be redirected to wrestling with their Midcard and the cruiserweights because they must fill more time and because they can't talk for shit when your best promos are Stephanie and Foley


----------



## Reotor

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> I wouldn't be surprised to see it drop to less than 2.5m next week.
> 
> That was a week ass pilot episode for SD that exposed SD as the B show that should be skipped.


The first smackdown on USA back in January also had a strong start in viewership.
I fully expect SD to descend back to 2m on the next several weeks.


----------



## Empress

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



EL SHIV said:


> I know they won't do it because hey want him to serve as a cheerleader, but heel Bryan would be fascinating. He makes a great heel. Only problem with that is why wouldn't Shane just fire him? Most likely Shane gives in to his genetics and turns heel.


Daniel Bryan is a great heel. The WWE seems to only want to keep him as vanilla as possible. 

Bryan could get jealous to see all the rising stars who have taken his "place" and then tries to mess with him. He'd taunt Shane about firing him but knows that he won't: he needs him too much.

I'm happy to have Daniel Bryan back. I just wish he and Shane weren't pretty much the same "face" character.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

They have a potential (and believable) heel turn with Bryan. Not sure if anyone else has noticed, but there seems to be real tension between Bryan and Ambrose. A couple of things:

• When Ambrose made his entrance for his title match with Seth last week on SD he embraced Shane but didn't acknoweldge Bryan
• After Ambrose won Bryan did the YES chant and Ambrose didn't acknoweldge it; instead he went outside and celebrated on the table
• In the network draft special Bryan acknoweldged he and Ambrose don't get along or don't like each other (that network special was realistic as evident by Cesaro's promo)
• Before the BG main event Ambrose told Bryan he enjoyed beating him up the most while in The Shield. Bryan seemed to not know that joke was coming and if he did he didn't look happy


----------



## Shenroe

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Boy Wonder said:


> They have a potential (and believable) heel turn with Bryan. Not sure if anyone else has noticed, but there seems to be real tension between Bryan and Ambrose. A couple of things:
> 
> • When Ambrose made his entrance for his title match with Seth last week on SD he embraced Shane but didn't acknoweldge Bryan
> • After Ambrose won Bryan did the YES chant and Ambrose didn't acknoweldge it; instead he went outside and celebrated on the table
> • In the network draft special Bryan acknoweldged he and Ambrose don't get along or don't like each other (that network special was realistic as evident by Cesaro's promo)
> • Before the BG main event Ambrose told Bryan he enjoyed beating him up the most while in The Shield. Bryan seemed to not know that joke was coming and if he did he didn't look happy


Well then Ambrose is potentially turning too then. I still think they will go with the completely different feel from RAW. Less bs more opportunities so the double fave GM dynamic is needed. They need opposition tho, maybe AJ can step and truly assume his top heel role, or someone else will, preferably a wrestler and not another authority style top heel.


----------



## D.M.N.

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*SmackDown on YouTube - July 26th, 2016*
1.48 million - WWE World Title No. 1 Contender's Match Six-Pack Challenge
1.33 million - Shane McMahon and Daniel Bryan announce huge title opportunity
-------
1.14 million - WWE World Title No. 1 Contender's Six-Pack Qualifying Battle Royal
1.06 million - Rhyno returns to WWE on SmackDown Live to Gore Heath Slater
1.03 million - Randy Orton vs. The Miz
830,000 - The Women's division stake their claim as the top female competitor
823,000 - Randy Orton brings a little serpentine bedlam to "Miz TV"
727,000 - Shelton Benjamin is coming home to SmackDown Live
-------
342,000 - SmackDown's opening gets a facelift for the New Era
330,000 - Becky Lynch vs. Natalya
245,000 - American Alpha - debuts next week on SmackDown Live


----------



## BehindYou

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



D.M.N. said:


> *SmackDown on YouTube - July 26th, 2016*
> 1.48 million - WWE World Title No. 1 Contender's Match Six-Pack Challenge
> 1.33 million - Shane McMahon and Daniel Bryan announce huge title opportunity
> -------
> 1.14 million - WWE World Title No. 1 Contender's Six-Pack Qualifying Battle Royal
> 1.06 million - Rhyno returns to WWE on SmackDown Live to Gore Heath Slater
> 1.03 million - Randy Orton vs. The Miz
> 830,000 - The Women's division stake their claim as the top female competitor
> 823,000 - Randy Orton brings a little serpentine bedlam to "Miz TV"
> 727,000 - Shelton Benjamin is coming home to SmackDown Live
> -------
> 342,000 - SmackDown's opening gets a facelift for the New Era
> 330,000 - Becky Lynch vs. Natalya
> *245,000 - American Alpha - debuts next week on SmackDown Live*


 Either American Alpha needed to be hyped by crazy on the draft episode, do something at the PPV or debut this week. The decision to not have them show up and than barely hype it was very poor and it's reflected here.

With their resources they could of easily cut together a sweet hype package atleast.


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Cipher said:


> No, I'm fucking sick of the Authority and heel authority figures.


They hit the jackpot with a heel authority figure 20 years ago, for a while, and since then, that's all they fucking do. That's the brightest idea for big angles they had in 20 fucking years, that is their one thing when other pitiful ideas crash and burn, let's pit someone against the boss! Vince, Teddy Long, Laryngitis, Hunter, Stephanie, Bischoff ...
It's the same idea at the core of the company for two fucking decades. This shtick smells like rotten socks.
The only fucking time they could have created a megastar with it, they tried to put the guy who is anti-Authority over as a heel. Did you rewatch the CM Punk angle in 2011? He clearly was supposed to be a heel. Insulted the audience in his pipe bomb, won at MitB by screw finish, and Even though he got some of the loudest pops of that era, when he returned, commentary tried to turn violent reactions FOR him into, quote, "mixed reactions".
That's the real reason that angle was killed, he wasn't supposed to go over as a superface. Fast forward one year, they do what they wanted to do in the first place: heel Punk going against Face Vince McMahon.

Idiots.

Smackdown and Raw are supposed to feud each other, not with themselves.


----------



## wwetna1

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Youtube Views - Raw (7/25/16) vs SD(7/26/16) as of 7/31/16 (end of week)

*Raw*
Reigns v Balor - 2,610,381
Sasha v Charlotte - 1,919,520
Steph and Foley Open Raw - 1,900,925
Reigns v Zayn v Sheamus v Y2J - 1,242,075
Strowman Squash - 897,709
New Day Celebrate - 884,181
Opening Video - 688,365
Neville vs Axel - 672,148
Cesaro v Balor v KO v Rusev - 652,857
Enzo/Cass vs Primo/Epico - 629,750
Nia Jax Debut - 576,612
Backland, Young, Golden Truth - 268,025
CW Division promo - 220,961

*SD*
Shane and Bryan Open SD - 1,879,669
6 Man Match - 1,875,670
Battle Royale - 1,487,198
Rhyno Returns - 1,359,976 
Orton v Miz - 1,237,837
Womens Promo - 1,215,388
Miz TV - 1,070,953
Shelton Benjamin video - 831,130
New Opening - 401,240
Becky v Natalya - 369,776
American Alpha Debut Video - 267,798

They really should throw Superstars and Main Event on Youtube with ads looking at the view count they get. Gets some people decent exposure, make some money, and you can peg it as the brands competing in the social media world


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Hope SDL improves quality wise- this week. It's a travesty that they didn't hype Alpha's debut as a MUST SEE​ event.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Regardless of what happens, I expect SD to drop to under 2.5m after last weeks lackluster show.

They should start advertising things now on their social media if they want fans to give it a second chance.

The show very much came off like the 'B' show last week.


----------



## SilvasBrokenLeg

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> Regardless of what happens, I expect SD to drop to under 2.5m after last weeks lackluster show.
> 
> *They should start advertising things now on their social media* if they want fans to give it a second chance.
> 
> The show very much came off like the 'B' show last week.


Good luck with that. SD doesn't even get a preview on WWE.com until Tuesdays, while RAW had one up yesterday. There's basically no advertising with regards to SD.

Imagine the kind of demented mind it takes to actively sabotage one of your own TV shows, just so the flagship show looks superior. I bet USA Network will be thrilled.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Really good SDL,but I expect this week to be lower due to last week's average debut.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/showbuzzdailys-top-150-tuesday-cable-originals-network-finals-8-2-2016.html

*SmackDown viewership and demo:
8/2/16 Vs 7/26/16

2.681M Vs 2.743M (-0.062M / -2.26%)
0.93D Vs 0.97D

Note:
SD is #1 by demo.

Y-Y viewership and demo:
8/2/16 Vs 8/6/15

2.681M Vs 2.405M (+0.276M / +11.48%)
0.93D Vs 0.68D*


----------



## LilOlMe

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Wow, good. Thought it'd be lower (around the 2.5 million range) due to its lackluster debut.

Looks like people still gave it a chance. Very smart of them to start off so strongly this week. It looks like they kept people hooked. Does anyone have the ratings of the separate hours?

I was surprised Brock showed up. Honestly thought it'd be just a tease. This was another area that they were smart in. Made it seem like WWE was really investing in Smackdown by having Brock appear.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Considering the reaction to last week's episode, I was thinking the number would be lower.

Still as a whole they need to get that number moving up. Hopefully the quality of this week's show will get the people that tuned in this week and more to get back into it. Smackdown pretty much has no chance of beating Raw pre-MNF but if they keep up the quality of this week's show and Raw has continued mediocre showings like this week, I could definitely see Smackdowm taking the lead.


----------



## Lothario

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Not bad. They're on the right track. They are slowly retaining viewers which is what the goal should be. It won't jump to 3.0+ overnight but word of mouth travels fast with the Internet. This week's episode was great, so the onus is on them to deliver another great one next week when those who are curious because of the hype decide to glance at it. Hook viewers when they take the time to tune in. They almost blew it last week so this weeks rating is a very good sign. 


They have to stay the course which is going to be extremely difficult but I think SD can easily become the better show in 9 months to a year once they flesh out this roster and build up the mid card and main event guys like Ambrose. The fact it doesn't compete with the NFL AND is two hours is only a plus in the long run. Hope they keep at it.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Literally no one draws anymore. Two weeks in and ratings already down. This is when excitement for the brand split should be at a high, same goes for Raw.


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Looks like both RAW and SD are settling down in terms of ratings. 700k more people watching RAW still shows how they mismanaged SD in the past.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Very solid retention. So far the move is a success. We'll see how long that continues.


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Good numbers.


----------



## jamesdeen1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It was a great show but the RATINGS have only ever been up recently because of the hype around The Drafts. People were interested in it (casuals) they'll slowly turn away from the WWE again because the WWE isn't as mainstream anymore.


----------



## Piper's Pit

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The rating for both shows are essentially irrelevant right now in terms of deciding whether the constant decline in ratings has been stopped and viewership stabilised or even increased. They've only just begun the split, it's how ratings are in a months time at the earliest that conclusions can begin to be drawn.


----------



## Mister Sinister

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

They haven't made any real changes so the ratings are going to stay where they are. If I were brought in to head creative, no matter if you hated my booking, you would know the very first night that everything has changed.


----------



## wwetna1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Youtube Views SD 8/2/16 (1 day later)

Brock - 1,296,394
Dolph v Bray - 1,026,384
AJ/Cena - 799,959
Wyatt attacks Dolph - 709,285
Triple Threat - 594,593
Eva Marie - 568,030
AAlpha debuts - 529,705
Rhyno/Slater - 371,832

** will post Raw/SD numbers for end of the week to see the changes


----------



## Y.2.J

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



wwetna1 said:


> Youtube Views SD 8/2/16 (1 day later)
> 
> Brock - 1,296,394
> Dolph v Bray - 1,026,384
> AJ/Cena - 799,959
> Wyatt attacks Dolph - 709,285
> Triple Threat - 594,593
> Eva Marie - 568,030
> AAlpha debuts - 529,705
> Rhyno/Slater - 371,832
> 
> ** will post Raw/SD numbers for end of the week to see the changes


I really like these Youtube numbers. It shows what people are really interested in.

What's interesting is that Eva Marie gets so much hate, but her segment was almost as clicked on as much as the Triple Threat #1 contender IC match, and got more clicks than AA debuts and Rhyno/Slater segment. Very telling in my opinion. SDL have something with Eva.

Another interesting thing is the AA debut. It shows that the WWE have to build these NXT superstars and not just expect people to know who they are. 

I wonder how much more revenue WWE gets through these Youtube clicks as well. Over an extra 24 hours, they got almost 5.9 million more eyes on the product. I'm aware it may be the same people viewing who watched the show the night before but I bet there is a huge fraction who didn't. Not everyone has cable TV anymore, some just stream everything off their computer nowadays. Very interesting.


----------



## Y.2.J

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



NoleDynasty2490 said:


> People like tits. It still sells. She stands out. Way. Out.


Exactly. That's why the WWE have money with her. Unfortunately for the women, despite the 'women's revolution' it is very difficult to draw decent/big numbers but tits always sell like you said. 

If SDL throw Eva out there, they know people watching will stay glued.


----------



## Bret Hart

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Eva Marie is a fucking draw, she stands out so much... There honestly isn't anyone in the WWE or around the world that can garner the attention she can.

Those fucking tits and that ass.... :banderas :homer :lenny

Beautiful... Just beautiful, I'd let her shit in my hand.


----------



## A-C-P

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

This is what happens when you completely kill the interest in the product of your hardcore base audience over a long period, and worse for Smackdown before this split they made SD seem like it didn't matter at all, The actual show this week was good, but its going to take good shows consistently over a LONG period to ever see significant increase in viewership for both Raw and Smackdown (SD especially)

and :lmao at anyone think Eva Marie is keeping or drawing in any viewers...*its 2016* you want to see hot women in tight close check out this thing you are on called the internet much better sources for that than "PG" WWE programming....


----------



## BehindYou

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Dissapointed with that AA youtube number but there not going to draw against any of the SD teams cause they all suck in and out of kayfabe.

They should move Alpha to Raw and make it the tag team show or call up The Revival quick and let them do a best of 5 series for the title or something on SD.


----------



## Y.2.J

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



A-C-P said:


> and :lmao at anyone think Eva Marie is keeping or drawing in any viewers...*its 2016* you want to see hot women in tight close check out this thing you are on called the internet much better sources for that than "PG" WWE programming....


Well numbers are numbers.

Eva Marie getting more clicks than the AA debut.

Everyone talks about Eva Marie, good or bad, her name gets around. That's what WWE likes.


----------



## A-C-P

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Avada Kedavra said:


> Well numbers are numbers.
> 
> Eva Marie getting more clicks than the AA debut.
> 
> Everyone talks about Eva Marie, good or bad, her name gets around. That's what WWE likes.


Oh you were referring to the Youtube #s . That thing on the INTERNET, which is where I said people go to see their hot women. TV audience >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Youtube views when it comes to the way the WWE makes their money.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying Eva has no value to the WWE. As long as they keep her ass out of the ring as a wrestler she has value, but she not some major draw :lmao


----------



## Y.2.J

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



A-C-P said:


> Oh you were referring to the Youtube #s . That thing on the INTERNET, which is where I said people go to see their hot women. TV audience >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Youtube views when it comes to the way the WWE makes their money.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I am not saying Eva has no value to the WWE. As long as they keep her ass out of the ring as a wrestler she has value, but she not some major draw :lmao


Obviously TV viewership > Youtube viewership. That goes without saying.

All I said was, I enjoy looking at Youtube numbers because it's telling on what people actually want to see. It's broken down into deeper numbers. Obviously Brock & Orton is the #1 clicked on video during the 24 hours after SDL. Just behind that is the Bray Wyatt & Ziggler match because that was a big deal. 

It's also interesting to see that not many people (relatively) are clicking on the AA debut. WWE has to work on getting these newcomers built up before just randomly debuting them. Eva Marie segment was clicked on more than that.

I don't think Eva Marie is a *huge* draw. But I think she's a bigger draw than any of the ladies on SDL currently. Yes, the hardcore fans like Becky and know who Alexa and Carmella are...but Eva Marie catches the attention of casuals.


----------



## wwetna1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

YouTube Views - Raw 8/1/16 (one day later) ---> (as of 8/4/16)

CW Promo - 121,079 ----> 174,216
Nia Jax - 298,962 ---> 373,390
Strowman - 485,637 ---> 567,640 
Young vs Titus - 510,030 ---> 560,997
Golden Truth vs Primo/Epico - 535,171 --- > 593,591
New Day vs Club - 552,791 --- 604,692
Zayn vs Rollins - 791,513 ---- > 882,048
2MB segment - 805,808---> 941,864
Henry vs Rusev - 911,262 ---> 1,083,097
Enzo/Sasha v Jericho/Charlotte - 920,614 ---> 1,088,070
Enzo/Sasha/Jericho/Charlotte promo - 1,280,908 ---> 1,642,026
Balor and Seth promo - 1,366,807 ----> 1,669,176
Orton attacks Brock - 2,560,792 ---> 3,586,629


Youtube Views SD 8/2/16 (one day later) ---> (as of 8/4/16)

Brock - 1,296,394 ----> 1,655,831
Dolph v Bray - 1,026,384 ---> 1,184,678
AJ/Cena - 799,959 ---> 1,028,161
Wyatt attacks Dolph - 709,285 ---> 818,064
Triple Threat - 594,593 ---> 680,533
Eva Marie - 568,030 ----> 686,443
AAlpha debuts - 529,705 ---> 599,178
Rhyno/Slater - 371,832 ---> 421,800

Notes 
- Alpha's backstage interview is at 125,336 
- Eva on the trainers table is at 487,763
- Crews promo on Miz is at 103,493 
- Club talking about New Day is at 135,202 
- Mahal's return interview is at 270,272
- Charlotte talking about Sasha is at 164,039
** Alexa and Carmella have 6 figure view videos from last week that was shot just for youtube 

NXT 
- Ember Moon - 97,259
- Itami retun match - 193,548
- Roodes debut - 187,080 
- Asuka killing Alliyah - 150,976 

CWC 
- Gargano v Ciampa - 121,210
- Dar vs Bollywood Boy - 63,750
- Swann vs Lee - 53,743
- Gallagher vs Fabian - 66,936


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SDL not only against the Olympics, but also against The Women's All Around Gymnastics final. Curious to see how it fares this week.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Michael Phelps and Women's Gymnastics were on against SDL. I am fully expecting a big ratings drop.


----------



## Donnie

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



EL SHIV said:


> Michael Phelps and Women's Gymnastics were on against SDL. I am fully expecting a big ratings drop.


If the ratings drop that will be the only reason because the show was stellar imo, and the ratings should reflect that.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*SmackDown viewership and demo:
8/9/16 Vs 8/2/16

2.455M Vs 2.681M (-0.226M / -8.43%)
0.81D Vs 0.93D*










*Y-Y viewership and demo:
8/9/16 Vs 8/13/15

2.455M Vs 2.083M (+0.372M / +17.86%)
0.81D Vs 0.56D*


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

not bad retention against the Olympics, only 200,000 less live viewers from last week. They also were number one with males 18-49 so that's a positive.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SD retained better than I thought against the Olympics. It's been the better quality show 2/3 weeks so far.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Smackdown has the most potential by far. Apart of me wonders if they've been tanking Raw on purpose to make sure Smackdown wins. I mean think about it, there were rumors earlier about Shane McMahon feuding with Triple H around WM 33 time. If those are true, and not just rumblings, then it would make sense in storyline for them to purposely make sure Raw looks inferior to Smackdown so that Stephanie and Triple H can get frustrated that Shane and Bryan are beating them and it leads to a match. At least, that's how I would write it.


----------



## SilvasBrokenLeg

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



RubberbandGoat said:


> Smackdown has the most potential by far. Apart of me wonders if they've been tanking Raw on purpose to make sure Smackdown wins. I mean think about it, there were rumors earlier about Shane McMahon feuding with Triple H around WM 33 time. If those are true, and not just rumblings, then it would make sense in storyline for them to purposely make sure Raw looks inferior to Smackdown so that Stephanie and Triple H can get frustrated that Shane and Bryan are beating them and it leads to a match. At least, that's how I would write it.


That's a pretty bad theory. They're not going to tank their flagship show, especially since they're going to have to renew their TV contract soon. If anything, they've been trying to tank SD, so that RAW looks superior, by putting Ziggler in the world title picture. But apparently that backfired, since it appears that more people are into the Ambrose/Ziggler match than Rollins/Balor.

SD needs at least a year of build up for it to be able to compete with RAW for ratings. It's been getting 2 million viewers for most of the last year. It's not going to get high 2 million or 3 million overnight. But I do agree that it has the better roster.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Yeah but hear me out. I mean its all apart of the storyline. How else would you get a Shane/Triple H match? Plus, the last two weeks of Raw have been awful, if they're in a ratings war, they obviously are half assing Raw and Smackdown just flows better and is more entertaining. It makes sense that they'd want Smackdown to win a few weeks so that it does look like the equal show. Its just a theory though


----------



## Lothario

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Wow. Not bad at all. They're definitely the better show over the last two weeks and there was no "polarizing" bs end to the show. Ended on a high note and I love the emphasis on story and character progression. They've somehow managed to make Eva Marie segments entertaining for reasons other than she's great to look at. SD just feels more fresh.


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



RubberbandGoat said:


> Yeah but hear me out. I mean its all apart of the storyline. How else would you get a Shane/Triple H match? Plus, the last two weeks of Raw have been awful, if they're in a ratings war, they obviously are half assing Raw and Smackdown just flows better and is more entertaining. It makes sense that they'd want Smackdown to win a few weeks so that it does look like the equal show. Its just a theory though


This is a bad theory. You never, EVER make your own show look shit for whatever reason. It goes against everything business is about. If RAW is crappy, its because WWE are out of good ideas. Not because they want it to be bad.

If you want to set up an angle where Smackdown gets the upper hand on RAW, you only need to have RAW guys lose to Smackdown guys, giving them the bragging rights and getting HHH and Stephanie pissed off.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Down a comfortable margin every week since the brand split. Worth noting. Even worse since it's only 2 hours.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I don't think Vince really hates Smackdown, I think he wants it to succeed. I think that he has Raw still being talked about as the A show because since Bryan is the GM of SD now, he's going with that underdog being held down gimmick for the show now too. And saying only the underdogs on there and therefore they'll never succeed. Making it a surprising upset when they do succeed. I wouldn't be surprised if for a few months they either trade off being ahead in the ratings, or they purposely tank Raw to give SD that "underdog winning feel good" moment for the week. Just a thought. It would make it more interesting. I mean think about it, they're treating Orton like he's inferior to Lesnar by having him have an injury now and they gave Ziggler a title shot. All the SD guys are being treated as underdogs.


----------



## anirioc

*WWE Smackdown Live Viewership Drops Again.*

Is this because of the Olympics games or because Neither Ambrose nor Ziggler or Bray are draws?
Last week´s ratings were also pretty terrible.

"Tuesday's edition of WWE Smackdown Live averaged 2.455 million viewers, which was down on last week’s 2.681 million viewership average.

The show featured Dolph Ziggler and Dean Ambrose vs Bray Wyatt and Erick Rowan in the main event. 

The episode was running head to head with the Olympics coverage, which will have had an impact on viewership."


----------



## Peerless

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Smackdown is never going to have an extended run of higher ratings. The moment they get close, Vince is going to look at the breakdowns and bring whoever is drawing the highest TV audience to RAW.


----------



## SilvasBrokenLeg

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



RubberbandGoat said:


> I don't think Vince really hates Smackdown, I think he wants it to succeed. I think that he has Raw still being talked about as the A show because since Bryan is the GM of SD now, he's going with that underdog being held down gimmick for the show now too. And saying only the underdogs on there and therefore they'll never succeed. Making it a surprising upset when they do succeed. I wouldn't be surprised if for a few months they either trade off being ahead in the ratings, or they purposely tank Raw to give SD that "underdog winning feel good" moment for the week. Just a thought. It would make it more interesting. I mean think about it, they're treating Orton like he's inferior to Lesnar by having him have an injury now and they gave Ziggler a title shot. All the SD guys are being treated as underdogs.


They don't need to purposely tank RAW. Just book it like they did prior to the draft, and the low ratings will follow. I'm guessing this is what they did last week and this week, given the atrocious rating it got. RAW is down close to a *million viewers* (LOL) from last year, meanwhile, SD is up 400K.


----------



## Y.2.J

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Those are not that bad of numbers considering the Olympics which seem to have hurt both Raw and SDL this week.

SDL is still drawing like 20% more than it was before pre-draft. I don't know what's happening to Raw...


----------



## Peerless

*Re: WWE Smackdown Live Viewership Drops Again.*

Well, the biggest star was missing and his opponent was missing as well. I don't know what you guys expect from SD, but it's going to take a while for them to get to 3's if they ever do. They've been giving out some decent shows, and if they continue like this they'll improve. As of now, I expect a 2.5 viewership range weekly.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

its because of the Olympics..and by the way, they have retained the vast majority of their viewership since the brand split. August of the same week last year in 2015 they had 400,000 less viewers so its been successful thus far and two weeks in a row they've stayed number one in the 18-49 demo which is very important. The Olympics had something to do with it but they only lost 200,000 viewers from last week. They're doing well.

Smackdown is going to start getting real good ratings. Everyone loves the underdog and it just has better wrestling on its show. Raw doesn't interest me in any fashion whatsoever. A lot of people agree with me apparently. SD has grown its viewership average in one year, Raw has LOST its viewership average in one year. which one is doing better?


----------



## BehindYou

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



RubberbandGoat said:


> Smackdown is going to start getting real good ratings. Everyone loves the underdog and it just has better wrestling on its show. Raw doesn't interest me in any fashion whatsoever. A lot of people agree with me apparently. SD has grown its viewership average in one year, Raw has LOST its viewership average in one year. which one is doing better?


 Casuals will tune in for Cena and Bryan, the 2 most over guys of the last decade. 

It has more popular stars, more popular GM/Commissioner pairing and an hour less, it had to gain ground really.


Lol if Raw and SD just ended up swapping ratings, wonder what USA would think of that.

I'm not American, isn't Monday's bigger for the NFL? Which presumably good see more people choosing to watch SD?


----------



## Kabraxal

*Re: WWE Smackdown Live Viewership Drops Again.*

Multiple factors: it takes time for ratings to match the quality of show, some steeper competition especially in swimming/gymanstics, and the stigma of being the continuation of Raw AND the lesser of those two. But if the show continues to be decent to great, the numbers will improve.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

That's why SD is going to take over. There's no NFL on Tuesdays. So SD automatically will win the majority of weeks going forward. Its actually been winning the last two weeks. Raw might have had more viewers those two straight weeks but the demo is what matters and SD has been number one in the only demo that matters and that's 18-49. And its been in the top two on cable. Raw can't even maintain being number 3 or number 4 on cable on a weekly basis. So SD is already ahead. I think when the NFL starts murdering Raw and SD is consistenly winning each week, that'll lead to the rumored Shane/Triple H match..the frustration of the underdog winning.


----------



## SilvasBrokenLeg

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



RubberbandGoat said:


> That's why SD is going to take over. There's no NFL on Tuesdays. So SD automatically will win the majority of weeks going forward. Its actually been winning the last two weeks. Raw might have had more viewers those two straight weeks but the demo is what matters and SD has been number one in the only demo that matters and that's 18-49. And its been in the top two on cable. Raw can't even maintain being number 3 or number 4 on cable on a weekly basis. So SD is already ahead. I think when the NFL starts murdering Raw and SD is consistenly winning each week, that'll lead to the rumored Shane/Triple H match..the frustration of the underdog winning.


It's not going to happen that quickly. It's far more difficult to acquire new viewers for a show than it is to retain them. RAW started out with a million more viewers than SD. It did close the gap considerably, but it's going to take a while for the show to be built up.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

@SilvasBrokenLeg I definitely agree with you that it'll take time. The NFL, though, is 17 weeks long not including playoffs. I think in that time frame, it can go ahead of Raw. My prediction is halfway, weeks 8 or 9 it takes over. On Raw there's just nothing interesting right now, Finn Balor is boring to me personally. Smackdown just holds my interest. It might be a biased opinion, but I think that SD will go ahead by the middle of the NFL season.


----------



## StylesP1

*Re: WWE Smackdown Live Viewership Drops Again.*

SD will be fine. It takes time to gain viewership, and just like with Raw, the ratings were lower this week due to Olympics.


----------



## LilOlMe

*Re: WWE Smackdown Live Viewership Drops Again.*

SD is doing better than it did last year, RAW is doing worse. That tells the story that SD is right now at least doing what it set out to do. 

Anyone who thought SD would retain 3 million + ratings is nuts. People always tune in for the biggest impact shows.


----------



## razzathereaver

*Re: WWE Smackdown Live Viewership Drops Again.*

That's actually not too bad, considering both Cena and AJ weren't around and it's going up against the Olympics. What's also worth considering is that SD's viewership dropped by 200,000, while RAW's dropped over twice that amount.


----------



## Ace

*Re: WWE Smackdown Live Viewership Drops Again.*

Just curious, was Raw competing with Phelps on Monday night too?


----------



## Kabraxal

*Re: WWE Smackdown Live Viewership Drops Again.*



Straw Hat said:


> Just curious, was Raw competing with Phelps on Monday night too?


I think semi swims only. The major medal rounds seemed to be last night.


----------



## The Nuke

*Re: WWE Smackdown Live Viewership Drops Again.*



Straw Hat said:


> Just curious, was Raw competing with Phelps on Monday night too?


Semi I think. But yeah, obviously Men's Swimming had more people interested than what WWE was trying to put on.


----------



## Lothario

*Re: WWE Smackdown Live Viewership Drops Again.*



anirioc said:


> Is this because of the Olympics games or because Neither Ambrose nor Ziggler or Bray are draws?
> Last week´s ratings were also pretty terrible.
> 
> "Tuesday's edition of WWE Smackdown Live averaged 2.455 million viewers, which was down on last week’s 2.681 million viewership average.
> 
> The show featured Dolph Ziggler and Dean Ambrose vs Bray Wyatt and Erick Rowan in the main event.
> 
> The episode was running head to head with the Olympics coverage, which will have had an impact on viewership."


It's more of option C -- you being a mental midget unnecessarily when I'm certain you're more intelligent than that. You don't comprehend the numbers because that'd take actual effort. You're seeing an (8%) drop so the sky is falling. They lost 200k to Michael Phelps and have gained (and for the most part, retained) a little over 400k viewers since the split. They aren't going to do 3.0's over night, and if you're discrediting them and the performers after three weeks and SD historically being the 'B'-show, you'd have likely been calling for Austin to be depushed three months into his run since RAW didn't overtake Nitro overnight and very much lagged behind them in ratings for a lengthy stretch. 

"Put the title back on Shawn." :lol

You don't gain a million viewers overnight, but SD isn't losing an astronomical amount either. It's a marathon, not a sprint, and you look absolutely ridiculous to anyone who possesses an ounce of critical thinking skills. Those numbers (primarily considering the lows they have come from from) aren't bad. At all, and if you think they were, it's a good thing you weren't old enough to spell your name in 1998 because you would have been on a geocities dirt sheet site declaring the company was dead because DX, Rock and Austin couldn't outdraw WCW overnight.


----------



## Shenroe

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



RubberbandGoat said:


> That's why SD is going to take over. There's no NFL on Tuesdays. So SD automatically will win the majority of weeks going forward. Its actually been winning the last two weeks. Raw might have had more viewers those two straight weeks but the demo is what matters and SD has been number one in the only demo that matters and that's 18-49. And its been in the top two on cable. Raw can't even maintain being number 3 or number 4 on cable on a weekly basis. So SD is already ahead. I think when the NFL starts murdering Raw and SD is consistenly winning each week, that'll lead to the rumored Shane/Triple H match..the frustration of the underdog winning.


Lmao yeah I could see them burying SD if it does too well lol. Smh


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

it was just a storyline idea I thought they were going toward. They are making a big deal about the two sides feuding so Shane/Triple having a match, I figured it would be based upon Smackdown doing better. That's all! Also, SD is doing very well in ratings right now, they're retaining at least 80% or more of their audience week to week. I'm sure they'd like to gain viewers instead of losing 10-20% every week but that's still a nice retention no matter what. They can build on that, on the right track.


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Eva Marie Wardrobe malfunction already has over 2 million hits on youtube :trips7

We are going back to bra and panties matches aren't we :batista3


----------



## BehindYou

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Reotor said:


> Eva Marie Wardrobe malfunction already has over 2 million hits on youtube :trips7
> 
> We are going back to bra and panties matches aren't we :batista3


 Haha I noticed this too, the most views since the Lesnar/Orton attacks.

I think its more the words Wardrobe Malfunction than it is Eva too, Lana would of got so much more at the height of her popularity a year ago.

Maybe it meeans we will see more stuff like this in general given the popularity and WWE's social media obsession.


----------



## Shenroe

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



BehindYou said:


> Haha I noticed this too, the most views since the Lesnar/Orton attacks.
> 
> I think its more the words Wardrobe Malfunction than it is Eva too, Lana would of got so much more at the height of her popularity a year ago.
> 
> Maybe it meeans we will see more stuff like this in general given the popularity and WWE's social media obsession.


Even without the wardrobe shes usually 3rd most viewed.


----------



## BehindYou

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Horrifying.

If the world still goes this crazy for a traditionally hot chick, they need to all up Mandy Rose ASAP.


----------



## Y.2.J

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I was waiting for wwetna1 to post the YouTube viewership because that seems like he's shtick but I'll go ahead and post some.

Smackdown Live YouTube views from 08/09/16 -> 08/12/16

1) Eva Marie wardrobe malfunction ---------2,291,490 
2) Randy Orton vs. Alberto Del Rio --------- 1,080,156 
3) Bray Wyatt & Erick Rowan opener ------- 881,878 
4) Bray & Rowan vs. Dean & Ziggler ------- 794,541 
5) AAlpha vs. Local jobbers ----------------- 623,370 
6) Becky Lynch vs. Alex Bliss --------------- 611,425
7) Rhyno vs. Heath Slater ------------------ 593,355
8) AJ Styles - Cena promo package -------- 476,765
9) Carmella vs. Natalya --------------------- 415,431 
10) Baron Corbin assaults Kalisto ---------- 391,102



Eva Marie = :vince$. Haters gonna hate.


----------



## Callisto

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Reminds me of one Cagesideseats tweet where they said one of their Eva articles generated more traffic in 2 hours than all the CWC qualifier recaps + one ROH recap combined. All of their Eva articles do big numbers apparently

Conversely when Nattie turned on Becky, no one gave a shit

So it's not hard to see why WWE values her so much. She has more star power than most of the roster


----------



## Acezwicker

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Callisto said:


> Reminds me of one Cagesideseats tweet where they said one of their Eva articles generated more traffic in 2 hours than all the CWC qualifier recaps + one ROH recap combined. All of their Eva articles do big numbers apparently
> 
> Conversely when Nattie turned on Becky, no one gave a shit
> 
> So it's not hard to see why WWE values her so much. She has more star power than most of the roster


We'll see how the numbers are when she wrestles. People are watching because of the excuses Eva comes up with to avoid facing Becky and also Boobs.


----------



## wwetna1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Avada Kedavra said:


> I was waiting for wwetna1 to post the YouTube viewership because that seems like he's shtick but I'll go ahead and post some.
> 
> Smackdown Live YouTube views from 08/09/16 -> 08/12/16
> 
> 1) Eva Marie wardrobe malfunction ---------2,291,490
> 2) Randy Orton vs. Alberto Del Rio --------- 1,080,156
> 3) Bray Wyatt & Erick Rowan opener ------- 881,878
> 4) Bray & Rowan vs. Dean & Ziggler ------- 794,541
> 5) AAlpha vs. Local jobbers ----------------- 623,370
> 6) Becky Lynch vs. Alex Bliss --------------- 611,425
> 7) Rhyno vs. Heath Slater ------------------ 593,355
> 8) AJ Styles - Cena promo package -------- 476,765
> 9) Carmella vs. Natalya --------------------- 415,431
> 10) Baron Corbin assaults Kalisto ---------- 391,102
> 
> 
> 
> Eva Marie = :vince$. Haters gonna hate.


Thanks, I was working nights. Eva is killing it. I like that they are essentially using her as vixen like how SD used to use Dawn Marie, Torrie Wilson, and Sable Also solid numbers for Orton


----------



## chronoxiong

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Eva Marie = ratings. We have to accept it.


----------



## TheGeneticFreak

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



chronoxiong said:


> Eva Marie = ratings. We have to accept it.



More like Boobs = Ratings or at least that sweet youtube money.


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Maybe WWE should hire me to take a shit in the middle of the ring and put it on youtube.
I bet i can get at least 4 million viewers with dat star power.


----------



## FROSTY

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Anyone want to predict what the ratings will be for this week?*


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Rambo Apocalypse said:


> *Anyone want to predict what the ratings will be for this week?*


I'm sure they will improve, but only slightly. Olympics still on and its going to take awhile for people to get acclimated to Smackdown on Tuesdays. Hell, you still see people that visit these forums that say "I forgot it was on, what have I missed". If people that come on forums are doing that, its going to take time for ratings to see a good bump.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*SmackDown viewership and demo:
8/16/16 Vs 8/9/16

2.471M Vs 2.455M (+0.016M / +0.007%)
0.82D Vs 0.81D*










*Note: #1 in demo.*

*Y-Y viewership and demo:
8/16/16 Vs 8/20/15

2.471M Vs 2.434M (+0.037M / +1.52%)
0.82D Vs 0.66D*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Very stable ratings. Smackdown seems on pretty solid ground.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

oh look, number one for the second straight week. I'd say it has a loyal following now, keeping that 20% increase going it seems! awesome. Its staying stable, Raw is deteriorating.


----------



## Lothario

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

This is how you turn ratings around. Consistency. Great booking. Engaging writing. Defined characters with personality. This is why so many people will look like fools when this is all said and done, because this roster wasnt supposed to be interesting. Dolph and Dean were supposed to be cancerous. SD was nothing but the B show. The blue brand has given the world the finger and are doing everything right. As a consequence, their ratings are already beginning to stabilize.


Well written storylines and interesting characters will always be more engaging than 20 minute matches and guys who only possess "the look."



They still have a *long* way to go before they're anywhere near where they need to be in order to breathe but this is a great sign. They simply can't afford to let up though because they're not even close to being in the clear.


----------



## LilOlMe

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

From Wrestling Observer:


> Like last week, Smackdown retained about 85% of the RAW audience, slightly higher than the first two weeks of the brand split after the inaugral draft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The show is still up from the 2.1-2.2 million range that it was doing prior to the brand split and the move to a live show on Tuesdays. Especially considering that the last couple weeks have been against competition from the Olympics, that has to be considered a good sign.


----------



## The_Jiz

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

They have stopped the bleeding.


----------



## BehindYou

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

As they develop the women and tag team division, I think it can improve further from what is a pretty decent rating.

When NFL starts again the ratings between RAW & SD are going to get very interesting.


----------



## SnapOrTap

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Went up vs the Olympics and still went up in the important 18+ demo.

Awesome to see good booking/shows/talent get rewarded like this.


----------



## Chrome

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It's been the better show the last couple weeks, so nice to see the ratings hold steady. They'll probably beat Raw a couple times in the Fall if they keep it up.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It was all by accident too lol Vince still figured Raw would be considered the Flagship.


----------



## B316

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Don't get too attached, Smackdown will always pay the price for Raw's failings.


----------



## Crasp

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



B316 said:


> Don't get too attached, Smackdown will always pay the price for Raw's failings.


Yup. Ultimately, history has a way of always repeating itself. I'm just enjoying it while it lasts.


----------



## Soul Man Danny B

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



B316 said:


> Don't get too attached, Smackdown will always pay the price for Raw's failings.


WWE cutting off it's nose to spite it's face would be incredibly dumb at this (rather important) juncture.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The gap is being closed because Smackdown has most of the stars people care about. It's going to get to a point where Vince has to steal a Smackdown main eventer and put them on Raw to even things out.


----------



## B316

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Crasp said:


> Yup. Ultimately, history has a way of always repeating itself. I'm just enjoying it while it lasts.


Yeah likewise. It hasn't been amazing or anything but at the same time it's been really refreshing, there's very little to complain about (Otunga) and the potential for something special is very apparent, even in these early stages.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

what would make the show perfect is if Bryan did commentary AND GM.


----------



## Shenroe

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Crasp said:


> Yup. Ultimately, history has a way of always repeating itself. I'm just enjoying it while it lasts.


Yep, they'll want SD to do good but not that good DAMMIT!


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Just shows that a well booked show with a roster that are starting to get people invested will help ratings stay consistent and stable. I think 2 hours also plays a part in it too. I mean you can tell it's an improvement because there were people on here who hadn't watched Smackdown in months or can go weeks without watching and then pick it up again when they're free. I imagine reading the results and seeing if it was going to be a good show or not helped in that respect but with them being live and having their own roster really makes it better on the viewers and I've watched Smackdown more in the past month then I had the previous 10 years and that is honestly no lie.


----------



## Starbuck

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SD will definitely beat out a Raw when MNF starts up again. I'll be really surprised if it doesn't do it at least once. 2 hours of character driven stories > 3 hours of hollow drivel. Then. Now. Forever.


----------



## Restomaniac

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

If this doesn't get the message through to the senile old git nothing will.


----------



## FROSTY

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



RubberbandGoat said:


> what would make the show perfect is if Bryan did commentary AND GM.


*Bryan made it very clear that he only wants minimal exposure, he wants SDL to be all about the talent not about it's glory hungry authority figures. So while I personally (being a huge Bryan fan) would love to see him more every week, I really dig that he's been sticking to his vision. Besides we get almost a full 30 minutes straight of D-Bry on Talking Smack.*


----------



## Crasp

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Shenroe said:


> Yep, they'll want SD to do good but not that good DAMMIT!


They won't mind it doing well at all. The problem is they'll cut its throat so save Raw and they wouldn't even think rwice.


----------



## wwetna1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*SDLIVE YOUTUBE 8/16/16 *​
HAWKINS​ 209,199​CORBIN/KALISTO​ 224,690​WOMENS TAG​ 436,671​ROWAN/AMBROSE​ 523,190​SLATER​ 558,220​12 MAN TAG​ 575,251​ZIGGLER/AMROSE​ 709,822​NAOMI/EVA​ 751,993​RKO/SLATER​ 886,149​CENA/ADR​ 1,073,269​


----------



## TheGeneticFreak

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



wwetna1 said:


> ROWAN/AMBROSE​ 523,190​SLATER​ 558,220​



This clearly shows Slater should win the title.


----------



## wwetna1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I would find Slater reviving the Hardcore title and defending it crash holly style on sd entertaining


----------



## chronoxiong

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Eva Marie bringing in them Youtube viewers from India. Who's going to make up for those views now that she's suspended for 30 days? :mj2


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



LilOlMe said:


> From Wrestling Observer:


I don't get why this is good. The percentage is higher because Raw is lower. The actual SD number of viewers dropped.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*SDL viewership and demo:
8/23/16 Vs 8/16/16

2.714M Vs 2.471M (+0.243M / +9.83%)
0.98D Vs 0.82D*

*SDL Vs RAW viewership this week: 
2.714M Vs 3.315M
(-0.601M/ 81.87%)
*
*Note: SDL is #1 by demo and #3 by viewership.*










*Y-Y viewership and demo:
8/24/16 Vs 8/27/15

2.714M Vs 2.195M (+0.519M / +23.64%)
0.98D Vs 0.65D*


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Titan Towers will be very very happy with those numbers. three weeks in a row of number 1 in demo


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Slowly but surely, the numbers are climbing and Smackdown are starting to take over. Its gonna become the A show very soon if things keep going this way.


----------



## Peerless

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Nice bump.


----------



## BehindYou

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Hes a One Man Draw








Babbbey


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

now because of Talking Smack, hopefully it gets to 3 million next year.


----------



## A-C-P

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The move to Live and Tuesday Nights has definitely helped bigtime thus far....


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Wow, doing great! 

This is still a show that many people don't even know is live or its own show yet. Give it a couple more months and it will be beating Raw in ratings. That is damn impressive, and shows what good writing can do for your show.


----------



## LilOlMe

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *Y-Y viewership and demo:
> 8/24/16 Vs 8/27/15
> 
> 2.714M Vs 2.195M (+0.519M / +23.64%)
> 0.98D Vs 0.65D*


This is the high-water mark, I think. I don't see them maintaining this, but it was a nice bump. Also, it's great to see them doing so much better than last year's post Summerslam Smackdown. They're improving on their pre-draft numbers, and that's what matters.


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

While its nice to see ratings jump it still can just be a post PPV bump, so I'm not looking too much into it.
Lets see if they can maintain it.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

after what happened on Talking Smack, they'll retain it and then some.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Good number for Smackdown. Let's see if they retain it.


----------



## wwetna1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

That Bella booty blessed the screens


----------



## Lothario

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Well deserved rating. They've got to stay on it. It's climbing and the little things they're doing on Talking Smack will go a long way. Word of mouth is starting to pick up. Can't really describe it but after the opening in the locker room with AJ, Carmella blind siding Nikki on Talking Smack, the Usos putting over their being professional tension in the locker room between the tag teams, and Corbin being caught giving Kalisto a beat down after the damage was already done, SD feels like it has an actual pulse. Things are starting to feel less scripted and more spontaneous as if there doesn't need to be a camera on for these people to interact or have their own agendas. 




I mean, Dolph was more offended by AJ trash talking him than Rusev was over Roman pinning him, disparaging his wife, and beating him to a pulp Sunday. That lack of continuity will matter in the long run. That's really going to go a long way in the favor of SD if they continue to capitalize on the little things RAW continues to arrogantly ignore.


----------



## JTB33b

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The rating should get even better next week if they really talk up this Bryan/Miz feud.


----------



## Mra22

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Glorious!!! Glad to see SD doing better than crappy RAW


----------



## Trivette

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It's like night and day watching these two shows back to back now. I'll cut a little slack to RAW for having to re-write their entire script this week, but that still doesn't make up for the weeks previous. SD on the other hand has been improving consistently week by week. Just one example from this week that made me pay attention: Carmella getting the upper hand on Nikki to set up a proper feud. It's not that hard, folks.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

No Olympic competition helped. Strong word of mouth should help them retain and possibly grow their viewership.


----------



## RKO 4life

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Here be The Miz... because I'm a team player I'll only take half the credit for the up rise of the ratings.


----------



## The Renegade

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Nice number for SD. Great to see a main roster show being so well received by the hardcore audience. Hopefully, if these numbers keep raising, WWE doesn't do anything stupid and decide to move talent from SD to Raw. Best to take the principles that prove successful instead.


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Renegade said:


> Nice number for SD. Great to see a main roster show being so well received by the hardcore audience. Hopefully, if these numbers keep raising, WWE doesn't do anything stupid and decide to move talent from SD to Raw. Best to take the principles that prove successful instead.


Have you seen the difference in the Live threads? Raw is so depressing, and its usually people laughing at the product and questioning decisions. Smackdown is lively, fun, people enjoying the show.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

the Bryan/Miz thing is definitely going to be the big draw moving forward.


----------



## The Renegade

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



StylesP1 said:


> Have you seen the difference in the Live threads? Raw is so depressing, and its usually people laughing at the product and questioning decisions. Smackdown is lively, fun, people enjoying the show.


I have, but that has as much to do with the quality of the show as it does with the people watching it. Right now, SD is a show that people are watching because they want to, not out of habit, so you're going to have a better attitude from their viewers overall.


----------



## Y.2.J

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

2.7 million viewers! Dayummmm


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I said it last week and I'll say it again, it's AMAZING what a well booked show can do. 

No one, especially in the main event scene, is being made to look like a geek. There isn't ONE guy who's just dominating the roster and the show doesn't revolve around one person, they put emphasis on many other facets of the company. Heath Slater coming out in the opening segment which was about tag team titles and a womens title ffs. Not to mention that 2 hours is alot easier to sit through than 3 hours, the thing is it doesn't even seem like 2 hours because the show can be so entertaining that before you even know it, you're at the main event. Raw, at the best of times, is a chore to watch.

Talking Smack will only enhance that rating next week. I hope they have The Miz come out in the opening segment and just cut a KILLER promo, give him that exposure again. Don't let ANYONE interrupt, just let him have his moment.


----------



## Darren Criss

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Can someone tell me every rating by both brands since the brand split?


----------



## wwetna1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Since it has been a long week of straight wrestling for WWE. 5 nights in a row to be exact - Youtube Views 

Takeover 
Jose/Aries - 90,418
Ember Moon Debut - 160,946
Roode Glorious Entrance - 615,772
Tag Title Match - 73,423
Itami GTS - 248,586
Baylet Entrance - 278,574
Asuka Entrance - 216,115
Joe - 242,911
Nakamura Entrance - 851,340
Nakamura wins title - 630,582

SummerSlam
RKO/Lesnar - 2,310,745
Balor/Rollins - 823,929
Ambrose/Dolph- 440,326
Sasha/Charlotte - 445,468
Cena/AJ- 817,932
Nikki Returns- 1,387,052
IC title - 244,217
Tag titles- 268,165
JEriKO/ Enzoand Cass - 264,303
Cedaro/Sheamus - 424,683
Dudleys/ Neville and Zayn- 406,405
12 man tag - 562,998

Raw
Balor - 1,499,801
Reigns/Y2J - 1,178,934
Dudleys retire - 1,021,995
Bayley Debuts - 1,077,770
Bayley/Dana - 662,414
Zayn/Rollins - 639,470
Strowman- 496,518
Cass/Rusev - 762,932
NEville/KO - 412,448
Big E/Anderson - 495,809
New Day - 549,706
Titus/Darren/Backland - 428,597
Cweights oming - 113,145

SD Live
Carmella attacks Nikki (TS) - 679,457
Miz and Bryan (TS) - 1,490,394
Titles Revealed - 1,937,635
Ziggler/Styles match - 1,103,107
Wyatt/RKO- 1,512,718
Carmella vs Nikki- 747,503
Alpha/Breezango- 451,521
Becky/Bliss - 410,945
Usos/Ascension- 482,517
AJ/Dolph match is made - 593,610
Slater and Rhyno - 1,149,159
AJ in the locker room -720,608 
Hakins promo - 152,063

CWC 
Sabre/Gulak - 62,088
Swann/Dorado - 120,799
TJP /Gargano- 82,494

NXT 
Perfect 10/Blake - 98,981
TM61/AOP - 179,227


----------



## TheGeneticFreak

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Slater and Rhyno - 1,149,159

Slater's youtube views continue to surprise me.


----------



## RKO 4life

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Man Orton just knows how to draw


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I got a feeling that SD's ratings are gonna take a hit this week. SD wasn't bad, but last night was the first night of the ANW finals in the same 2-hour slot, which on its own probably wouldn't topple SD, but I'm thinking it's about the same demographics and will at least put a noticeable dent in the numbers. The only hook SD really had coming in was fallout from last week's Talking Smack. Just a hunch.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*SDL viewership and demo:
8/30/16 Vs 8/23/16

2.835M Vs 2.714M (+0.121M / +4.46%)
0.91D Vs 0.98D

SDL Vs RAW viewership this week: 
2.835M Vs 3.413M
(-0.578M/ 83.06%)*

*Note: 
SDL is #1 by demo & #2 by viewership.
Highest post draft viewership.*










*Y-Y viewership and demo:
8/30/16 Vs 9/3/15

2.835M Vs 1.981M (+0.854M / +43.11%)
0.91D Vs 0.52D*


----------



## AlternateDemise

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Smackdown's viewership continues to rise. They're closing in on that 3 million mark. Would be a huge win for them to reach that point this quickly.


----------



## D.M.N.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Highest number for SmackDown since the Draft!


----------



## SilvasBrokenLeg

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



D.M.N. said:


> Highest number for SmackDown since the Draft!


It was just a random episode too. Not a post-PPV or go home episode, and they didn't have any big title matches announced.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Really good number for Smackdown.


----------



## The Renegade

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Good stuff! Hopefully this number didn't just peak because of the Miz/Bryan incident. Wanna see that climb continue.


----------



## Eliko

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I think The Miz promo on talking smack helped a lot.
SD feels fresh! great number and they can climb even higher when Cena is coming back to tv.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Very good number. Demo was down slightly, but tremendous year to year growth. This just proves that if you book it well, they will come. Miz/Bryan may have brought more viewers in, but they stayed for the show. 5/6 retention of RAW'S audience. :yes


----------



## Chrome

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Nice number. Show's been pretty good since the draft and it's nice to see it rewarded.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



D.M.N. said:


> Highest number for SmackDown since the Draft!


Glad my hunch was wrong. Unfortunately it comes from the same place that makes me buy PowerBall tickets.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Bryan draws but we already knew it..but next week it'll go down because they cheated us out of the Miz/Bryan angle.


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I can't believe that Smackdown, a show that just went live, moved to a new channel and most people don't even know that yet...If less than 600,000 away from beating Raw in ratings. A show that has been on the air on the same night and Live for 25 years. Insane.

Shows what a good product can do. Smackdown needs to keep it up.


----------



## amhlilhaus

Smackdown will outdraw raw midway thru football season


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Nice increase but I expect numbers to go down next week due to how swiftly they shut the door down on the Miz/Bryan angle.


----------



## BehindYou

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I'm not so sure the next episode will lose viewers, sure the Miz and Daniel Bryan may of drawn more people in but the show was strong enough end to end that those viewers are likely to come back IMO and it's a go home show for the first SD PPV (which has a hot main event).


----------



## amhlilhaus

Reotor said:


> Nice increase but I expect numbers to go down next week due to how swiftly they shut the door down on the Miz/Bryan angle.


That was stupid as fuck

Oh, im sorry. I dont work in the industry, so i know NOTHING about wrestling or what i want to see.

I do know i didnt want ziggler inserted in this spot tho


----------



## MoxleyMoxx

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Milkman and his tighty whiteys bringing in dem RATINGS :trips8


----------



## FROSTY

BehindYou said:


> I'm not so sure the next episode will lose viewers, sure the Miz and Daniel Bryan may of drawn more people in but the show was strong enough end to end that those viewers are likely to come back IMO and it's a go home show for the first SD PPV (which has a hot main event).


*Plus the show was at 2.7 + million viewers last week so it's not unreasonable to think many of the rise in viewers this week was just more people catching on to the good product SDL is. I'm sure the Miz/Bryan stuff contributed, but their ratings had been climbing every week, it's at least conceivable the ratings would have climbed to at least close to this number without the Miz/Bryan incident.*



MoxleyMoxx said:


> Milkman and his tighty whiteys bringing in dem RATINGS :trips8


*Looks like you're gonna need to change that sig to Subban and Josi before the season starts :mormont*


----------



## Darren Criss

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Almost 3M*!* #BeatUpRaw


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Good, consistent show --> better ratings

Who would have thought? Not sure they can get even higher, though.


----------



## The Renegade

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I don't see why SD can't reach Raw numbers in the near future. Its not like the audience they are attracting right now are non wrestling fans. These are weekly WWE viewers who are slowly learning that SD is a show to watch as well.


----------



## Godway

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Very impressive stuff. RAW had a new champion being crowned to culminate the show. SD had Dean Ambrose vs. Baron Corbin :lol


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Godway said:


> Very impressive stuff. RAW had a new champion being crowned to culminate the show. SD had Dean Ambrose vs. Baron Corbin :lol


The milkman drew in the viewers. He should get Heath's contract.


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

No ratings available?


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*SDL viewership and demo:
9/6/16 Vs 8/30/16

2.454M Vs 2.835M (-0.431M / -13.44%)
0.79D Vs 0.91D

SDL Vs RAW viewership this week: 
2.454M Vs 3.069M
(-0.615M/ 79.96%)

Note: 
SDL is #3 by demo & #7 by viewership.*










*Y-Y viewership and demo:
9/6/16 Vs 9/10/15

2.454M Vs 2.040M (+0.386M / +20.29%)
0.79D Vs 0.53D*


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Quite the decrease for the last SD before the PPV. The lowest SD numbers post-draft.

Was something relevant on TV?


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

So both shows dropped pretty hard. SD stayed the same distance behind in the total number of viewers.


----------



## mendohelix

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*SMACKDOWN DRAWS LOWEST RATING SINCE BRAND SPLIT*




> As was the case with WWE Raw the night before, SmackDown Live's ratings were way down on Tuesday night as the show did just 2.454 million viewers, down 13% from the previous week.
> 
> SmackDown is usually 2nd or 3rd in total viewers for the night on cable but fell to 7th this week. In the 18-49 demo, the show did a 0.79 rating, 3rd for the night on cable.


----------



## razzathereaver

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Apparently even with these being the lowest post-split numbers yet, SDL still made a small gain on Raw.


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Ouch. Back to square one for Smackdown.
I'm under the impression that SDL suffers the Fallout of a bad RAW, maybe fans still don't see the show as a truly separate entity.
That or last week's episode left a really bad impression.


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

To be fair, last weeks show wasn't the greatest.

Again, this show wasn't the greatest either. I think they are in desperate need to really build this mid card and allow us to get invested in the talent they have at their disposal. I mean the only superstars people tend to care about that are on Smackdown going into the brand split were Wyatt, Ambrose, Orton, Cena and Ziggler - since the split, the show has done well to make us really care for the likes of Slater and it's given Miz a new lease of life. Let's hope they can continue to make us care about some of the other guys on there to make the fans continue to tune in because even when it's a poor show, it's a lot more bearable than watching 3 hours of Raw.

I think they could really do with an influx of new talent to be honest to beef up the mid card abit as a lot of their mid card talent seems to be in Tag Teams - I would absolutely LOVE for them to call up Samoa Joe, Bobby Roode and Austin Aries, though I feel that would be a bit of a blow to NXT.


----------



## emm_bee

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Reotor said:


> Ouch. Back to square one for Smackdown.
> I'm under the impression that SDL suffers the Fallout of a bad RAW, maybe fans still don't see the show as a truly separate entity.
> That or last week's episode left a really bad impression.


Last week's was a wee drop in quality compared to the previous week (which was probably the best episode they'd had since the split by far, being a post-SummerSlam show maybe something to do with that), however as you say I think a bad RAW could have had an effect, certainly with the casual followers. If they've been served up three hours of utter garbage on a Monday night then in their minds, they're probably going to think twice about being burned again on the Tuesday, even if SD is now a separate entity and has, for the most part, been pretty decent viewing.


----------



## FROSTY

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Were they going up against something that doesn't normally air on Tuesdays? Like a big award show, or with the Presidential race?*


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I told you this was going to happen. They just dropped the Miz/Bryan angle...what did you think would happen? interest went down. People were pissed.


----------



## RKO 4life

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

When you only push Styles and Ambrose that will happen. They suck.

Time to put the title on Orton


----------



## Darren Criss

RubberbandGoat said:


> I told you this was going to happen. They just dropped the Miz/Bryan angle...what did you think would happen? interest went down. People were pissed.


Preach.

Also Styles needs to win tonight.


----------



## FROSTY

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Hopefully the number goes back up this week, last night was a amazing episode hopefully the ratings reflect that. *


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I think we might see the usual PPV bump but I still don't think SDL will beat RAW.


----------



## MMM2909

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

This is the best opportunity SDL will have in a long time to beat RAW. RAW did a 1.88 and if there is a bump SDL should beat it


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

No numbers yet?


----------



## AlternateDemise

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



StylesP1 said:


> No numbers yet?


Doesn't it usually take two days for there to be official numbers?


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



AlternateDemise said:


> Doesn't it usually take two days for there to be official numbers?


I thought the overnights come out around 4 PM.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*SDL viewership and demo:
9/13/16 Vs 9/6/16

2.658M Vs 2.454M (+0.204M / +8.31%)
0.91D Vs 0.79D

SDL Vs RAW viewership this week:
2.658M Vs 2.690M
(-0.032M/ 98.81%)

Note:
SDL is #1 by demo & #4 by viewership.*










*Y-Y viewership and demo:
9/13/16 Vs 9/17/15

2.658M Vs 2.083M (+0.575M / +27.60%)
0.91D Vs 0.56D

SDL Vs RAW viewership this week last year: 
2.083M Vs 3.397M
(-1.314M/ 61.32%)

Note: 
SDL this week last year was #9 by demo & #7 by viewership.*


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Good climb this week.


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Smackdown a whisker away from RAW at this point. I can see next week being the week they completely overtake them.


----------



## 2Pieced

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Good response from last week and it was a good sow to boot.


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Nice nice ppv bump definatly helped


----------



## emm_bee

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Get James Ellsworth on SmackDown again next week and watch the best brand overtake RAW and leave it in the dust.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Thought Smackdown would get 2.7 million with the PPV bump, but just a little short. Just a hair away from beating Raw too.

Smackdown seems to have found a steady number range, so I don't think it beating Raw will be as much to do with it's show, as opposed to how much Raw drops.


----------



## chronoxiong

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

James Ellsworth = ratings.


----------



## MMM2909

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

You have to give SDL time to build up its audience, it cant happen over night .It has to be a minimum 3 months plus of good booking and hopefully some new stars raising to the top, for IT to beat RAW. This is ,no mater what, a good sign going forward.


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



MMM2909 said:


> You have to give SDL time to build up its audience, it cant happen over night .It has to be a minimum 3 months plus of good booking and hopefully some new stars raising to the top, for IT to beat RAW. This is ,no mater what, a good sign going forward.


For sure. Its actually impressive that SDL is getting these numbers this early on. One show is the flagship that has been on the same night and same channel for 25+ years. The other is what was the Raw recap show for years that floated around on different nights and channels. I'm 100% positive that Vince and USA are thrilled with the early growth of the SDL audience. Keep the quality up and it will only get better.


----------



## AlternateDemise

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



MMM2909 said:


> You have to give SDL time to build up its audience, it cant happen over night .It has to be a minimum 3 months plus of good booking and hopefully some new stars raising to the top, for IT to beat RAW. This is ,no mater what, a good sign going forward.


Agreed, it's a process. It's not something that will happen over night. But give it a few months with the booking and quality they've had thus far and I'm almost certain they'll have close to three million viewers.


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Expected something a little higher, but this is a decent post-PPV bump. Hope they can build up on that because Smackdown is the show to watch right now.


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Called it


----------



## razzathereaver

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Man, that is close. Just imagine if they advertised Cena beforehand.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

LMFAO they're going to beat Raw by next week and not look back. SDL is the new Monday Nitro back when they consistently beat Raw.


----------



## Sincere

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Dat James Ellsworth drawing power


----------



## Thanks12

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

They can possibly beat Raw next week. Also the return of Eva will help lol.


----------



## Sincere

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It will be interesting to see what the numbers do next week after a fallout show that had a relatively small amount of wrestling.


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Sincere said:


> It will be interesting to see what the numbers do next week after a fallout show that had a relatively small amount of wrestling.


They used most of the time to build for No Mercy, which was much needed. I think that will actually help the ratings in the coming weeks leading up to No Mercy.


----------



## Sincere

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



StylesP1 said:


> They used most of the time to build for No Mercy, which was much needed. I think that will actually help the ratings in the coming weeks leading up to No Mercy.


I have a feeling it could help ratings, too, but it'll be interesting to see one way or another. Some critics seem to believe that the lack of time dedicated to in-ring wrestling is a bad thing, but my opinion is that the weekly shows should be more about building stories, while the PPVs should be what is purely dedicated to matches. I think spamming matches in your normal shows contributes to overexposure and staleness, but I wonder if the general audience will agree with that via the ratings.


----------



## Mra22

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

LOL, Smackdown killed crappy RAW yet again, didn't RAW only draw a 1.8? So didn't SD beat them ?


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Mra22 said:


> LOL, Smackdown killed crappy RAW yet again, didn't RAW only draw a 1.8? So didn't SD beat them ?


1.8 was the ratings, RAW still had slightly larger viewership.


----------



## Bret Hart

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Damn, I'm watching Smackdown on DVR and I can't help but NOT fast forward through it because it's actually pretty entertaining. 

Too bad these fuckers can't do it on a regular basis... It's not even that hard, it's just common fucking sense and wrestling 101.


----------



## AJ_Styles_P1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Longtime wrestling fans probably heard about AJ winning and wanted to see him with the title.

Bet after that opening segment they won't be back next week.


----------



## Cipher

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Why are people celebrating this? lol

WWE's viewership as a whole is reaching some all time lows. It's not more people watching SD than RAW, more people just aren't watching lol

All they have left is their core audience. They've completely eroded everyone else away.


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



AJ_Styles_P1 said:


> Longtime wrestling fans probably heard about AJ winning and wanted to see him with the title.
> 
> Bet after that opening segment they won't be back next week.


You are the only one I have seen that has negative things to say about that awesome opening segment.


----------



## AJ_Styles_P1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



StylesP1 said:


> You are the only one I have seen that has negative things to say about that awesome opening segment.


Well Cena ruined it for me.

Like rather than burying Ambrose character to try and get a pop, why didn't say something that would have attempted to explain how Summerslam ended with him throwing off the "never give up" band and essentially symbolizing... giving up.

That would too logical. *Not to mention he's a hypocrite for bringing up Stone Cold calling Ambrose out, when Stone Cold also called Cena out when he was on the podcast for how shitty his STF looks, yet Cena laughed it off like nothing and continues to put it on in a way that is embarrassing to the history of the business.
*
And why the fuck was he calling the title his when he hasn't had it in forever first off. Plus AJ won the title on his own, and Cena lost to AJ clean then gave up and left after the match.

Nothing made sense in the context of anything that's happened, Its like the WWE just thinks we are brainless idiots and will just forget everything, its ridiculous how they expect us to just accept this shit.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Man I wish they had shown AJ's reaction to the Cena and Ambrose mic battle.



















Top notch work as usual Dunn fpalm


----------



## Danica

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/775887382549762048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/775533797018304512
Hopefully SD surpasses RAW in ratings soon.


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> Man I wish they had shown AJ's reaction to the Cena and Ambrose mic battle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top notch work as usual Dunn fpalm


Wow this would have added so much more to the already great segment. I only remember AJ getting out of the picture (literally) when Cena stopped Ambrose. They could have at least shown close ups of AJ after the other two roasted each other to see how he reacted.


----------



## amhlilhaus

Sincere said:


> StylesP1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They used most of the time to build for No Mercy, which was much needed. I think that will actually help the ratings in the coming weeks leading up to No Mercy.
> 
> 
> 
> I have a feeling it could help ratings, too, but it'll be interesting to see one way or another. Some critics seem to believe that the lack of time dedicated to in-ring wrestling is a bad thing, but my opinion is that the weekly shows should be more about building stories, while the PPVs should be what is purely dedicated to matches. I think spamming matches in your normal shows contributes to overexposure and staleness, but I wonder if the general audience will agree with that via the ratings.
Click to expand...

That works if you got the horses to do it. Bad promos are as bad as too many matches.


----------



## Sincere

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



amhlilhaus said:


> That works if you got the horses to do it. Bad promos are as bad as too many matches.


Sure, the talent actually has to be able to perform, and tell stories, and sell feuds, but so far as I can tell, SDL has been doing quite well in that department when they choose to do so.


----------



## anirioc

*AJ Styles is a draw.*

Ratings this week were very good and that´s not a coincidence so this proves AJ is truly a draw, i was wrong because even though i know he is the best right know and maybe ever i didt believe he would be a draw in WWE.

http://www.wrestling-news.net/great-news-for-wwe-smackdown-live-viewership/83593/



"The September 13th edition of WWE SmackDown Live on the USA Network drew 2,658,000 viewers.

The viewership is up from last week’s 2,454,000 viewers and was the most-watched show on cable last night."


----------



## Dmight

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*

Smackdown is a draw


----------



## Sweggeh

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*

Im a big fan of AJ but at this point you can't attribute any ratings changes to one guy, good or bad.

I think over time we will be able to get a better idea of who is a draw and who isn't. But its pretty early to say it now, since Smackdown Live has only been a thing for a couple months.

HOWEVER... I do see an insane amount of AJ Styles shirts in the crowd these days so who knows.


----------



## Reotor

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*

AJ is not a draw. Nobody is a draw, this was the usual PPV bump.


----------



## anirioc

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*



Dmight said:


> Smackdown is a draw


Not its not! for the last couple of weeks ratings were the lowest ever since the brand split and one of the lowest ever so youre wrong here.


----------



## Miss Sally

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*

AJ once helped me with my homework, he's a great guy!


----------



## Dell

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*

Backlash gate was 7,000...Smackdown is a draw? lol.


----------



## Sweggeh

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*



Dell said:


> Backlash gate was 7,000...Smackdown is a draw? lol.


Well No Mercy is almost sold out. And Smackdown is on the verge of overtaking RAW in the ratings. At this point Smackdown is definitely a draw, at least in todays modern wrestling landscape.


----------



## The Renegade

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



razzathereaver said:


> Man, that is close. Just imagine if they advertised Cena beforehand.


I personally believe that these type of surprise showings do more to positively affect long term ratings when they aren't advertised. Gives the show a must watch vibe that encourages viewers to tune in at all times in fear of missing something big. Of course, I agree with your premise as well. Just thought I'd add that point in.


----------



## ImSumukh

anirioc said:


> Ratings this week were very good and that´s not a coincidence so this proves AJ is truly a draw, i was wrong because even though i know he is the best right know and maybe ever i didt believe he would be a draw in WWE.
> 
> http://www.wrestling-news.net/great-news-for-wwe-smackdown-live-viewership/83593/
> 
> 
> 
> "The September 13th edition of WWE SmackDown Live on the USA Network drew 2,658,000 viewers.
> 
> The viewership is up from last week’s 2,454,000 viewers and was the most-watched show on cable last night."


Anybody can say anything they want, but you are absolutely right that AJ Styles is a Draw.


----------



## Flair Flop

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*

AJ is finally in a position where he will be able to prove whether he is a draw or not. I certainly consider him a draw for me as he is my main reason for being so excited about SDL.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*

I like AJ and he probably is a draw at least in the 2016 WWE version of what a draw is, but you cant attribute it all just to one guy. Its SmackDown which has been fantastic, coming off a great PPV. Becky won the Womens Title, Slater is officially on SD, Cena returned, Miz is on fire, AJ Styles as Champ is just one piece of the picture.


----------



## FROSTY

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*



anirioc said:


> Not its not! for the last couple of weeks ratings were the lowest ever since the brand split and one of the lowest ever so youre wrong here.


*Don't know what you are talking about, check the week before when last when they were at close to 2.8 the highest mark since the split. Styles is not a draw, there are no draws in wrestling anymore, this was the ppv bump after the first ever brand exclusive ppv since the brand split.*


----------



## AlternateDemise

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*



anirioc said:


> Not its not! for the last couple of weeks ratings were the lowest ever since the brand split and one of the lowest ever so youre wrong here.


Last week Smackdown's ratings were the lowest since the brand split. Before that they were on a steady climb. So no, their ratings over the last couple of weeks weren't the lowest, just last weeks. 

This rise in ratings doesn't prove AJ's a draw at all. If anything it's something to be concerned about considering how Smackdown had higher ratings than this two weeks ago.


----------



## Sweggeh

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*



AlternateDemise said:


> Last week Smackdown's ratings were the lowest since the brand split. Before that they were on a steady climb. So no, their ratings over the last couple of weeks weren't the lowest, just last weeks.
> 
> This rise in ratings doesn't prove AJ's a draw at all. If anything it's something to be concerned about considering how Smackdown had higher ratings than this two weeks ago.


Well Smackdown two weeks ago was the first Smackdown after AJ was announced as the number 1 contender. Then they squandered all the heat from the feud by doing that dumb ring-rope-itis spot, which led to a lower rating the next week. Now AJ won the title and ratings are back up again.

Its not just due to him as the ratings never are down to one guy. There are many, many other factors. But there is still a bit of positive correlation.


----------



## moggy

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*

There's also other factors to consider if either Styles or SDL itself are a draw, like house show numbers and how much tickets they sell during weekly shows and PPV's. But Styles seems to do very well in the merch department, one of the reasons why Vince wanted to put the belt on him in the first place, so there's something that can lean towards Styles being a draw. Just need to wait and find out how the ratings and house show/arena sales are doing in the coming weeks and months.


----------



## validreasoning

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*



anirioc said:


> Not its not! for the last couple of weeks ratings were the lowest ever since the brand split and one of the lowest ever so youre wrong here.


Last week drew just under 2.5 million but week before that did over 2.8m and week before that did over 2.7 million

Viewership for Sd since the split has been really good.



Dell said:


> Backlash gate was 7,000...Smackdown is a draw? lol.


Which was decent for richmond given the card. 7,000 in a building that holds roughly 8,000 for wrestling with the tron. Wcw wasn't drawing 7,000 in Richmond with Hogan, sting, luger, flair etc on the card in 1995-96 prior to nwo angle getting hot in late 1996 and that was Crockett country.

SD is not a draw ticket selling wise. Tuesday is a shit day to get people out and SD for years has been a brand ignored by hardcore fans so you have got to a point where the only ones buying tickets to a sd show are families. Of course in time that could change and they have the right man writing the show if the goal is to attain the hardcore young adult male demo


----------



## TD Stinger

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*



anirioc said:


> Not its not! for the last couple of weeks ratings were the lowest ever since the brand split and one of the lowest ever so youre wrong here.


Um, if memory serves me correctly, the Smackdown 2 weeks ago main evented by Corbin and Ambrose did around 2.8 millions viewers, which is their highest so far.

But it's not like all that credit goes to Ambrose just because he's champion. It has to do with Smackdown being shorter, less competition than Monday nights, a better booked show, and more top stars in Cena, Orton, Ambrose, and Styles.


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*



Miss Sally said:


> AJ once helped me with my homework, he's a great guy!



Ikr? He just taught me the other day that the sky is green. You don't even need to bother looking!


----------



## WalkingInMemphis

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*

Being the AJ mark that I am, of course I would generally agree, but there are a lot of working parts as it concerns SDL. Miz doing an incredible heel job, Slater finally signing a contract, Becky Lynch as Women's champ. Right now, it's just a better show, IMO.


----------



## Metsfan49

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*

Lets see... We all know how this will turn out anyways. He can draw as much as he can, he will be fed to John Cena at WM, in yet another redemption angle to tie Flair's record. AJ is being made to look like gold so Cena's win is a bigger deal. Im not a Pessimist, not a AJ fanboy, or a Cena hater, Im only speaking the truth. Ive been watching since 1995, its easy to see where things are going when its been done this way for decades.


----------



## Not Lying

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*



Metsfan49 said:


> Lets see... We all know how this will turn out anyways. He can draw as much as he can, he will be fed to John Cena at WM, in yet another redemption angle to tie Flair's record. AJ is being made to look like gold so Cena's win is a bigger deal. Im not a Pessimist, not a AJ fanboy, or a Cena hater, Im only speaking the truth. Ive been watching since 1995, its easy to see where things are going when its been done this way for decades.


and IMO this is a perfect story. AJ didn't get buried, he is now legitimately a star, and Cena for sure deserves to tie that record and hopefully one day breaks it.


----------



## Metsfan49

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*



The Definition of Technician said:


> and IMO this is a perfect story. AJ didn't get buried, he is now legitimately a star, and Cena for sure deserves to tie that record and hopefully one day breaks it.


He does, absolutely. For all his years of service and the great work hes done in the last couple of years. My concern is that its gonna be the same old story. The hero John Cena redeems himself after more adversity. Its a historic moment for him, something historic should happen... *HEEL TURN*


----------



## AlternateDemise

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*



Sweggeh said:


> Well Smackdown two weeks ago was the first Smackdown after AJ was announced as the number 1 contender. Then they squandered all the heat from the feud by doing that dumb ring-rope-itis spot, which led to a lower rating the next week. Now AJ won the title and ratings are back up again.
> 
> Its not just due to him as the ratings never are down to one guy. There are many, many other factors. But there is still a bit of positive correlation.


Fair enough.


----------



## Loudness

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

We need storylines like this, 5.0s guaranteed:




























#clairelynchmatters


----------



## Godway

*Re: AJ Styles is a draw.*



The Definition of Technician said:


> and IMO this is a perfect story. AJ didn't get buried, he is now legitimately a star, and Cena for sure deserves to tie that record and hopefully one day breaks it.


Same. For the first time in a long time, a John Cena feud has been balanced and stands to help BOTH men, while also creating an entertaining/interesting product. AJ jobs and so what, he already got everything he needed out of the feud. Fans (even smarks) will possibly pop for Cena beating Styles at this point. 

This is territory where Cena always gets motivated. You have to put him against guys who are red hot and AWESOME performers, because that forces him to raise up his game, and he does. It was the same thing Punk did to him.


----------



## tboneangle

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

What was the final number rating for Smackdown? Raw did 1.8? I just wanna k ow if SD beat raw.


----------



## Thanks12

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



tboneangle said:


> What was the final number rating for Smackdown? Raw did 1.8? I just wanna k ow if SD beat raw.


RAW 1.88 SD 1.86. So close.


----------



## Metsfan49

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Thanks12 said:


> RAW 1.88 SD 1.86. So close.


I wonder what would happen if they moved SDL to Mondays. Monday Night Wars withing WWE:grin2::grin2::grin2:


----------



## MMM2909

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Loudness said:


> We need storylines like this, 5.0s guaranteed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #clairelynchmatters


This is probably one of the WORST tv stories of all time. It was also, the last time i watched TNA, saw this and was like "peace out". Have not watched since.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I wouldn't say AJ is a draw just yet. I believe the bump has more to do with SD putting on a good show. Everyone has been doing a fantastic job.


----------



## Loudness

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



MMM2909 said:


> This is probably one of the WORST tv stories of all time. It was also, the last time i watched TNA, saw this and was like "peace out". Have not watched since.


How dare you, that's utter blasphemy! That was the GOAT trainwreck storyline in TNA history and it glued viewers to their TV screens. You just couldn't believe what crazy thing they would come up with every week, the fanbase was split between people crying out of disbelief and LOLing so hard they almost got heart attacks. 

Now as far as AJs drawing power goes - I haven't ever read ratings but I'm pretty sure he's already a draw, no? I go to shopwwe and check t-shirts > list by bestsellers and AJs shirt is first. I don't really think AJ needs to "become" a draw beeing a veteran that everybody knows, I'm confident his reign will have above average ratings. Of course that's by modern WWE standards, the deviations from non-draws and draws isn't as big as it once was since nowadays only the shows draw since they book everybody to be replaceable which is sad. If WWE wants they could definitely put AJ over the edge though, he has the potential to be a very big player - from a business standpoint a lenghty reign would be a good decision for a guy like him.


----------



## Bink77

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I'm confused. Several sites are reporting that smackdown ratings were down for the second consecutive week, yet here you guys keep talking about a post ppv bump.


----------



## Sincere

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Bink77 said:


> I'm confused. Several sites are reporting that smackdown ratings were down for the second consecutive week, yet here you guys keep talking about a post ppv bump.


7/26 - 1.92
8/2 - 1.86
8.9 - 1.69
8/16 - 1.72
8/23 - 1.92
8/30 - 1.95
9/6 - 1.76
9/13 - 1.86

Down from a previous high? Yes, but up from the previous week, hence a post-ppv bump.


----------



## Bink77

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The Tuesday, September 13th post-Backlash edition of SmackDown Live drew 2.658 million viewers, according to Showbuzz Daily.

By comparison, last week's episode averaged 2.69 million viewers, marking the second straight week the show has declined in viewership.

This week's SmackDown Live finished number five on all of cable television in prime time and first in the coveted 18-49 demographic.


----------



## Sincere

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Bink77 said:


> The Tuesday, September 13th post-Backlash edition of SmackDown Live drew 2.658 million viewers, according to Showbuzz Daily.
> 
> By comparison, last week's episode averaged 2.69 million viewers, marking the second straight week the show has declined in viewership.
> 
> This week's SmackDown Live finished number five on all of cable television in prime time and first in the coveted 18-49 demographic.


:stop

No idea where you think you're getting your 2.69 number from


----------



## Bink77

Sincere said:


> :stop
> 
> No idea where you think you're getting your 2.69 number from


That's how it was posted verbatim on at least 3 different newsites. Its not my numbers. That's why i asked.


----------



## komba

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> I wouldn't say AJ is a draw just yet. I believe the bump has more to do with SD putting on a good show. Everyone has been doing a fantastic job.


Agree...

To be honest, if Smackdown puts on another good show tonight, I think we see Raw take a back seat for a while.

Whoever's writing Smackdown is just doing a far better job.


----------



## validreasoning

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SD should easily beat raw next week

Raw goes against 
* mnf which will take a chunk of male 18-49 demo
* the voice and dancing with the stars which some of the female audience will watch
* big bang theory which is most watched thing on tv
* 1st presidential debate likely the most watched telecast in cable history by quite some distance


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Let's see if Ambrose vs Cena got people to watch. It was a relatively fresh matchup with two big names.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*SDL viewership and demo:
9/20/16 Vs 9/13/16

2.292M Vs 2.658M (-0.366M / -13.77%)
0.73D Vs 0.91D

SDL Vs RAW viewership this week: 
2.292M Vs 2.684M
(-0.392M/ 85.4%)

Note: 
SDL is 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.
*









*Y-Y viewership and demo:
9/20/16 Vs 9/24/15

2.292M Vs 2.138M (+0.154M / +7.2%)
0.73D Vs 0.58D

SDL Vs RAW viewership this week last year: 
2.138M Vs 3.349M
(-1.211M/ 63.84%)

Note: 
SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 6th by viewership.
*


----------



## The RainMaker

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Cena vs. Ambrose = Loses 400K. Jesus. Who cares anymore?


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Only 2.2 million?

Lower than I was expecting. I guess people weren't feeling the main event.


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Damn this is really bad.
Imo the trend is if RAW is not doing well so does SDL, regardless of how good or bad the show is.


----------



## The RainMaker

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Sweggeh said:


> Only 2.2 million?
> 
> Lower than I was expecting. I guess people weren't feeling the main event.


Wrestling is dead. I don't even know why people look at the ratings anymore. Just enjoy what you can of it while it's around.


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

They advertised the main event pretty strongly too. If people don't even want to tune in to watch Cena anymore, then WWE are in serious trouble.


----------



## SilvasBrokenLeg

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The brand split has been a complete and utter failure. You can be a Smackdown mark or a RAW mark all you want, but both shows have failed miserably. The company's downtrend will continue for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

How has the brand split failed? Despite this poor rating, Smackdown ratings have been up from before the brand split. And RAW ratings continued their downward trend that has been happening for years. 

Brand split has made things better, but they are still pretty bad.


----------



## BeckyLynchFan29

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

If Cena can't bring in the viewers then no one can so yeah WWE is fucked.


----------



## SilvasBrokenLeg

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Sweggeh said:


> How has the brand split failed? Despite this poor rating, Smackdown ratings have been up from before the brand split. And RAW ratings continued their downward trend that has been happening for years.
> 
> Brand split has made things better, but they are still pretty bad.


They were up right after the split because it was new. SD was live for the first time ever and certain superstars were exclusive to the show. It's now converging to the pre-split numbers. It'll get there soon. Meanwhile, RAW is getting mid 2 million.

Also, SDL had no serious competition last night, unlike RAW.

It's a disaster any way you look at it.

WWE's decline has no end in sight.


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



SilvasBrokenLeg said:


> They were up right after the split because it was new. SD was live for the first time ever and certain superstars were exclusive to the show. It's now converging to the pre-split numbers. It'll get there soon. Meanwhile, RAW is getting mid 2 million.
> 
> Also, SDL had no serious competition last night, unlike RAW.
> 
> It's a disaster any way you look at it.
> 
> WWE's decline has no end in sight.


Actually Smackdown had competition from NCIS season premiere which apparently draws even more viewers than MNF.


----------



## wwetna1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Ncis had 15.6 million viewers for their premiere and Bulls debut had 15.5 million which sees Tony Dinizo (ncis star for 13 years) as its lead.

SD's "competion" will be NCIS, The Flash, Agents of Shield, Pretty Little Liars, Tyler Perry's Have and Have Nots in that Tuesday slot


----------



## SilvasBrokenLeg

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I forgot NCIS had its season premiere. Either way, it doesn't change anything. 2.2 million viewers is an appalling number, and given the competition that SD will face on Tuesdays, as outlined by the post above, they'll be getting 2 million viewers again very soon.

Meanwhile, RAW will flirt with near all time lows this fall.

WWE's next contract negotiations with USA will be fun.


----------



## Kabraxal

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Pity it did so poorly... But season premieres do hurt and it can't help that it is still part of the overall WWE brand that has done everything in its power to push viewers away. They might need to find someway to be under the WWE umbrella, but be looked at as seperate than the shit show Raw. They haven't done that for most viewers it seems.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

That's a horrid number.

People would seriously rather watch NCIS and The Voice instead of the WWE these days fpalm


----------



## Sincere

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Unfortunate, given the positive reception of last night's show overall. It seems like cable in general was getting destroyed in viewership by broadcast network shows (NCIS, Bull, The Voice), because ranking-wise, SDL didn't do poorly among cable shows. So, while these ratings are certainly underwhelming, I'm not yet prepared to be too dramatic about it. I wonder what DVR numbers might look like--are that many less people just not watching this week, or simply not watching live? Will also be interesting to see what the longer-term trends reveal after a few brand PPVs.


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Ouch, those are some really low numbers. It's an anomaly so far, but those are pre-draft "no one cares about Smackdown" numbers


----------



## StylesP1

Well we know its not the quality that is bringing the numbers down. People simply do not care about WWE as a whole anymore, despite quality.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Quality doesn't matter if you don't produce buzz around the product. How are people meant to know the product is getting good if there is no buzz. I mean you might put on a good show, but if there is no buzz what is the point.


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Meh. Smackdown is still doing solid numbers for SMACKDOWN.

I enjoyed the past show to be honest and it was one of the better ones in a while. It was better than last week for example yet last weeks ratings did matter, so it's all a bit strange to be honest.


----------



## Lothario

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Are we not blaming the champions anymore because they're not Shield? I love how level headed we seem to be now. A 14% drop? Holy hell. Imagine Ambrose or Roman in that situation.

"Get the title off of Ambrose."

"Get the title off of Roman."


Hell, we even killed Seth midway through his run and he was posting AE numbers in comparison. Shield were destroyed anytime numbers took a plunge but now that the indy gods are the guys holding the belt, the guy holding the title is irrelevant to the decline in numbers because wrasslin' itself is just dyin'. Funny how that works.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Lothario said:


> Are we not blaming the champions anymore because they're not Shield? I love how level headed we seem to be now. A 14% drop? Holy hell. Imagine Ambrose or Roman in that situation. They were destroyed anytime numbers took a plunge but now that the indy gods are the guys holding the belt, the guy holding the title is irrelevant to the decline in numbers because wrasslin' itself is just dyin'. Funny how that works.


 Because AJ was a prominent part of the show last night? :lol

He must of had like 3 minutes of air time.


----------



## wwetna1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Sincere said:


> Unfortunate, given the positive reception of last night's show overall. It seems like cable in general was getting destroyed in viewership by broadcast network shows (NCIS, Bull, The Voice), because ranking-wise, SDL didn't do poorly among cable shows. So, while these ratings are certainly underwhelming, I'm not yet prepared to be too dramatic about it. I wonder what DVR numbers might look like--are that many less people just not watching this week, or simply not watching live? Will also be interesting to see what the longer-term trends reveal after a few brand PPVs.


Voice hit 12.3 million viewers which is their highest since the debut of the show with Christina as a judge. 

Cable as a whole got slaughtered. Even Dancing With the Stars got slaughtered by being the only main show with less than 10mil viewers


----------



## Sweggeh

Lothario said:


> Are we not blaming the champions anymore because they're not Shield? I love how level headed we seem to be now. A 14% drop? Holy hell. Imagine Ambrose or Roman in that situation. They were destroyed anytime numbers took a plunge but now that the indy gods are the guys holding the belt, the guy holding the title is irrelevant to the decline in numbers because wrasslin' itself is just dyin'. Funny how that works.


You dont wanna go down that road, since it was the advertised match of Cena vs Ambrose that brought in weak ratings.

We will see what happens when AJ vs Ambrose main events next week.

Not that I think it matters, the buzz around WWE is weak these days. When even Cena main eventing brings in shit numbers you know theres an issue.


----------



## JTB33b

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



SilvasBrokenLeg said:


> They were up right after the split because it was new. SD was live for the first time ever and certain superstars were exclusive to the show. It's now converging to the pre-split numbers. It'll get there soon. Meanwhile, RAW is getting mid 2 million.
> 
> Also, SDL had no serious competition last night, unlike RAW.
> 
> It's a disaster any way you look at it.
> 
> WWE's decline has no end in sight.


They had to compete with the World Cup of Hockey game Canada vs U.S and the season premier of NCIS and This is Us which is suppose to be the next big hit.


----------



## Sincere

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



wwetna1 said:


> Cable as a whole got slaughtered.


Yeah, that's what I'm seeing here, too. Not sure what kind of difference next week will make. We have Styles and the championship being promoted a week in advance. The first debate on Monday. Week-after premiere week for these big braodcast network shows.

I just hope they don't knee-jerk too hard in response to lower ratings, and fuck up the good work they've been doing thus far.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



JTB33b said:


> They had to compete with the World Cup of Hockey game Canada vs U.S and the season premier of NCIS and This is Us which is suppose to be the next big hit.


 It just shows how much the WWE has fallen. There use to be a time where you couldn't skip wrestling, these days people would rather watch crappy shows like NCIS instead...


----------



## The True Believer

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Sweggeh said:


> You dont wanna go down that road, since it was the advertised match of Cena vs Ambrose that brought in weak ratings.
> 
> We will see what happens when AJ vs Ambrose main events next week.
> 
> Not that I think it matters, the buzz around WWE is weak these days. When even Cena main eventing brings in shit numbers you know theres an issue.


So if the buzz around WWE is weak, why would you need to see what happens with next week's world title defense?


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The True Believer said:


> So if the buzz around WWE is weak, why would you need to see what happens with next week's world title defense?


The buzz is weak around WWE regardless of whoever is out there. But Im just saying, if someone wants to try to blame this bad rating on individual talent, then obviously Cena and Ambrose are the most culpable since the majority of advertising for the show revolved around them.

But like I said, the buzz for WWE is weak so it makes minimal difference no matter who is out there.


----------



## Lothario

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Sweggeh said:


> You dont wanna go down that road,.



Actually, I do. 


When ratings dropped the week after Corbin vs Dean (which was their highest rated show to date) AJ was also involved in next weeks segment but Dean (and Dean only) was targeted and destroyed by the the work rate dude bros. Because *he* was the champion. HE killed the ratings, evidently. And now that even less fans seem to give a flip about the supposed best worker in the world carrying the belt, the onus is now on the supporting cast and creative.


But that's the hole you put yourself in when you point fingers like a tool until you get your way. 


I don't have a grudge against AJ and I'm not blaming him but I will point oit the hypocritical manlets who didn't hesitate to blame one man and are now cowering in the corner and playing sensible since that guy did better numbers and the numbers under their guy is bottoming out. Hypocrites should be called out and he who laughs last, laughs loudest. Now your guy is holding the belt and all of the horse shit agendas from mental midgets that come along with that responsibility.

Enjoy it.


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Making title matches and titles changing hands simply doesn't draw any buzz, nothing drastic anyway. WWE is simply too predictable. Of course Ambrose isn't going to win the belt next week and if he does, it would be a stupid move. I'm all for unpredictability and an atmosphere where it feels like anything can happen, but you don't create that by hot potatoeing the title belt. I think there should be more title matches defended on shows like Raw and Smackdown, mainly the mid card belts but it takes weeks, months to draw interest and get ratings back, sometimes you'll take a dip but as long as you stay consistent with your booking, you'll draw viewers in.

The people who didn't watch this week will end up watching another week and if they realise the booking is still consistent and the show can provide entertaining moments, show signs of great character development and give us storylines which make us care then they will stick. That's on the WWE.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Sweggeh said:


> The buzz is weak around WWE regardless of whoever is out there. But Im just saying, if someone wants to try to blame this bad rating on individual talent, then obviously Cena and Ambrose are the most culpable since the majority of advertising for the show revolved around them.
> 
> But like I said, the buzz for WWE is weak so it makes minimal difference no matter who is out there.


 The only guy who moves the needle anymore is The Rock.

Cena, Lesnar, Taker, Shane, Vince, HHH i.e. the big names, do not draw.


----------



## JTB33b

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Does DVR count as part of the ratings? Because I always DVR wrestling and watch it later that night so I can skip commercials.


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Lothario said:


> Actually, I do.
> 
> 
> When ratings dropped the week after Corbin vs Dean (which was their highest rated show to date) AJ was also involved in next weeks segment but Dean (and Dean only) was targeted and destroyed by the the work rate dude bros. Because *he* was the champion. HE killed the ratings, evidently. And now that even less fans seem to give a flip about the supposed best worker in the world carrying the belt, the onus is now on the supporting cast and creative.
> 
> 
> But that's the hole you put yourself in when you point fingers like a tool until you get your way.
> 
> 
> I don't have a grudge against AJ and I'm not blaming him but I will point oit the hypocritical manlets who didn't hesitate to blame one man and are now cowering in the corner and playing sensible since that guy did better numbers and the numbers under their guy is bottoming out. Hypocrites should be called out and he who laughs last, laughs loudest. Now your guy is holding the belt and all of the horse shit agendas from mental midgets that come along with that responsibility.
> 
> Enjoy it.


You aren't understanding my point...

If you want to go down the road of blaming individual talent... then its Ambrose's fault for the low rating. He was the one given the main event with Cena and told to carry the show...

You can blame Cena too but at the end of the day he has proven for over a decade that he is a draw.

Im not blaming individual talent here but as I said, if you want to go down that road, theres only one guy to blame.

If the ratings bomb next week then you can blame Ambrose _and_ AJ.

But I don't see how you can blame a guy who got like 30 seconds of air time for low ratings.

Maybe the ratings weren't good because he wasn't featured more on the show. :shrug


----------



## Chrome

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Raw, shit show=shit ratings

Smackdown, good show=shit ratings

Fuck ya gonna do?


----------



## The True Believer

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Sweggeh said:


> The buzz is weak around WWE regardless of whoever is out there. But Im just saying, if someone wants to try to blame this bad rating on individual talent, then obviously Cena and Ambrose are the most culpable since the majority of advertising for the show revolved around them.
> 
> But like I said, the buzz for WWE is weak so it makes minimal difference no matter who is out there.


You are right about one thing, the buzz around the WWE is weak which why it's smart for them to advertise a WWE title match as far back as this week so the word can be spread.

"Styles vs. Ambrose? Meh."

"Styles vs. Ambrose for the WWE title? I'm in!"

At least the latter is what WWE is hoping happens.


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

While the show this week was very solid, it wasn't must-see TV either. Same with last week. A good Miz-Ziggler match or Styles-Cena-Ambrose promo won't make people say "I have to watch this no matter what". The stories are still pretty flat as whole and I have no idea how to change that; the image of wrestling (WWE at least) and the interest in it seems to have died down. It isn't that special anymore and I guess those who do not watch WWE anymore tune in for UFC because of the realism or other TV shows for other reasons.

You can basically watch from PPV to PPV and you wouldn't miss too much; the video packages tell all there is and the feuds are often very formulaic.


----------



## Bink77

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Vince insisted for the last decade to make the brand strong instead of any of the individual wrestlers not named Cena. We now have a completely terrible brand product, so the audience is acting just as Vince wanted all along. They are turning on the brand, not wrestlers. I still think Vince plan is to get raw at least kicked off USA so he can put it on the network. If he gets it to 3 million subscribers, that covers the 30 million they get for that shit 3rd hour. 

Either way, I've read this book before. It was called WCW. Too big too fail, yet does so with flying colors. It's over folks.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The final nail in the coffin for the WWE.

Not even a good show can bring back viewers.

Wrestling is very much a niche now and will never get remotely close to their peak popularity and relevance again.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

NFL viewership is down through the first two weeks of the season, too, like around 8%, for whatever that's worth. Viewers in general are gradually just giving less shits? I don't know. Haven't watched a NFL game now going on two years, and I've been watching WWE increasingly sparingly for longer than that. So I'm part of the problem. Or maybe the shows themselves are shit and _they_ are the problem.


----------



## God Movement

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Having a good show for 3 weeks after years of bad shows isn't going to miraculously bring back viewers. It has to be a prolonged effort. Furthermore, they need something which is going to get social media talking. Wrestlemania is the one time where all eyes are on the product. It's the one time in the year where people who haven't watched wrestling regularly for years tune in because it's a special attraction. Somehow, someway you have to do something big enough at that event to pique the interest of those casual viewers. From there, you book consistently good, interesting shows, with proper storylines, not wrestling oriented storylines, but soap opera-like storylines which will actually get people invested in the characters on screen. Wrestling on its own does _not_ draw.

EDIT:

Also, I was thinking. Can you imagine what this particular scene would do for viewership in this day and age?






Imagine that happening, then cutting to a commercial break for 5 minutes. By the time the program resumes viewers would probably pile up to find out what the fuck just happened. News of that would travel pretty fast through social media. That scene was pretty big back in the day.

But it's impossible with the PG direction of the product.


----------



## CretinHop138

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Cleaner said:


> NFL viewership is down through the first two weeks of the season, too, like around 8%, for whatever that's worth. Viewers in general are gradually just giving less shits? I don't know. Haven't watched a NFL game now going on two years, and I've been watching WWE increasingly sparingly for longer than that. So I'm part of the problem. Or maybe the shows themselves are shit and _they_ are the problem.


They've been going up against MNF for over 20 years, why blame it now?


----------



## Sincere

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



God Movement said:


> Having a good show for 3 weeks after years of bad shows isn't going to miraculously bring back viewers. It has to be a prolonged effort. Furthermore, they need something which is going to get social media talking. Wrestlemania is the one time where all eyes are on the product. It's the one time in the year where people who haven't watched wrestling regularly for years tune in because it's a special attraction. Somehow, someway you have to do something big enough at that event to pique the interest of those casual viewers. From there, you book consistently good, interesting shows, with proper storylines, not wrestling oriented storylines, but soap opera-like storylines which will actually get people invested in the characters on screen. Wrestling on its own does _not_ draw.


This is true as well. Anyone who expected a miraculous turn around within the first couple of months was deluding themselves, even if it is possible for them to turn things around. It's easier for people to look at a single night of ratings and devolve into hysterics though. Trends over time, after several PPVs are in the books, will be what begin to paint a more complete picture.

I also tend to agree about getting people invested through drama, story, and characters, as opposed to "brand."


----------



## God Movement

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Sincere said:


> This is true as well. Anyone who expected a miraculous turn around within the first couple of months was deluding themselves, even if it is possible for them to turn things around. It's easier for people to look at a single night of ratings and devolve into hysterics though. Trends over time, after several PPVs are in the books, will be what begin to paint a more complete picture.
> 
> I also tend to agree about getting people invested through drama, story, and characters, as opposed to "brand."


It'll honestly take years for them to turn this slump around. Why the hell would viewers come back now? How would they even find out that the show has improved if they have no incentive to watch it? That's my point. The show is not entering the eyes of the mainstream. The viewers that have left, are not going to sit down and watch a 2 or 3 hour show to find out whether or not the show has improved. The reality is, people still compare the wrestling of today to the wrestling of yesterday which we all still vividly remember. And the wrestling of today absolutely does not compare to the wrestling of yesterday.

HOWEVER. As I said, the one time where people check out WWE product is Wrestlemania. When Wrestlemania was on, as I was scrolling through my Twitter feed the amount of people watching it who hadn't watched WWE regularly for at least 10 years was staggering. That's when you have the world watching, so do SOMETHING that will garner the attention you so desperately need. I don't know what exactly, because I'm not a writer. But it needs to be something big. A Roman Reigns heel turn followed by a brutal beatdown if you're throwing him in the main event. Or a Cena heel turn. Or something.


----------



## FROSTY

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Lothario said:


> Actually, I do.
> 
> 
> When ratings dropped the week after Corbin vs Dean (which was their highest rated show to date) AJ was also involved in next weeks segment but Dean (and Dean only) was targeted and destroyed by the the work rate dude bros. Because *he* was the champion. HE killed the ratings, evidently. And now that even less fans seem to give a flip about the supposed best worker in the world carrying the belt, the onus is now on the supporting cast and creative.
> 
> 
> But that's the hole you put yourself in when you point fingers like a tool until you get your way.
> 
> 
> I don't have a grudge against AJ and I'm not blaming him but I will point oit the hypocritical manlets who didn't hesitate to blame one man and are now cowering in the corner and playing sensible since that guy did better numbers and the numbers under their guy is bottoming out. Hypocrites should be called out and he who laughs last, laughs loudest. Now your guy is holding the belt and all of the horse shit agendas from mental midgets that come along with that responsibility.
> 
> Enjoy it.


*Quick put the title back on Ambrose







*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SDL is retaining 80%+ of RAW's audience most weeks. It is clear to me that SDL is hurting from being the de facto fourth and fifth hour of RAW. I don't see this changing much, unless RAW viewers jump ship to SDL permanently.


----------



## 4everEyebrowRaisin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SmackDown is better than RAW, but that's not really saying much. I don't really think either show is legitimately _entertaining_, they're not fun for me to actually sit down and watch.

Both are standard wrestling shows in 2016. SD doesn't do jack to set itself apart from anything else; oh, it has slightly better booking because the writers bother to tap into some basic common sense. 

wow ain't that some shit

Shit ratings will continue until some fucking life and personality is injected into the brand.


----------



## imthegame19

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

AJ Styles is the champion and the ratings in his second week of champion are the worst live Smackdown numbers ever. Well WWE better hurry up and take that title off AJ next week. Before Smackdown ratings fall to TNA level of low and USA cancels Smackdown..... LOL anyways I'm just kidding, because that's the type of stupid claims that people would say when Ambrose got a low rating show lol. Facts are none of these guys are draws right now. People just aren't into wrestling that much these days. So with the wrestling fan-base getting so low, it's pretty hard for one of these guys to be stars or make a difference.


----------



## Godway

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The show was built around Cena vs. Dean Ambrose??? 

AJ's ridiculously over right now, there's no reason why he shouldn't be holding the belt. If the numbers didn't come yet, they will. Or the WWE quite possibly dug themselves into too great of a hole at this point from the past two years of awful, which wouldn't surprise me either.


----------



## Piper's Pit

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Rule #1 for any business : Never insult or taunt your customers

The WWE forgot this rule and now they're paying the price, of course there are literally dozens of other reasons why they're in free fall but that is a huge one. I watched RAW and Smackdown and thought they were both decent shows with mostly good wrestling but I'm afraid it's too late, the damage is done.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Lothario said:


> When ratings dropped the week after Corbin vs Dean (which was their highest rated show to date) AJ was also involved in next weeks segment but Dean (and Dean only) was targeted and destroyed by the the work rate dude bros. Because *he* was the champion. HE killed the ratings, evidently. And now that even less fans seem to give a flip about the supposed best worker in the world carrying the belt, the onus is now on the supporting cast and creative.
> 
> 
> But that's the hole you put yourself in when you point fingers like a tool until you get your way.
> 
> 
> I don't have a grudge against AJ and I'm not blaming him but I will point oit the hypocritical manlets who didn't hesitate to blame one man and are now cowering in the corner and playing sensible since that guy did better numbers and the numbers under their guy is bottoming out. Hypocrites should be called out and he who laughs last, laughs loudest. Now your guy is holding the belt and all of the horse shit agendas from mental midgets that come along with that responsibility.


This whole "AJ vs Dean" nerd war is really weird, but this sums it up pretty well. Dean had a bad few weeks because people smelled blood after the Austin interview and went on a witch hunt, and now that AJ has the belt and Dean's actually been doing some good work again, people have to drop the pitchforks and realize the bigger issue at hand.

The ratings aren't really an indictment on Dean or AJ, who are two of the most popular guys on the WWE roster (for very different reasons). Cena isn't really pulling in the numbers, or Brock, or anyone, really.

There's really no right answer and to single out one wrestler in a witch hunt when there's an entire WWE machine that's messing up every week.


----------



## Blade Runner

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> I wouldn't say AJ is a draw just yet. I believe the bump has more to do with SD putting on a good show. Everyone has been doing a fantastic job.


He's not a draw, but then again nether was Shawn Michaels in 1996 despite being the in-ring MVP that year. It'll take a crapload more than just one wrestler to make the non-niche audience give a shit about professional wrestling in 2016


----------



## Mra22

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I wonder if the reason ratings are down is because people want to get rid of cable these days too and watch stuff through apps and/or download stuff ?


----------



## JTB33b

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It's the PG product that is the issue. Sex and violence is what sells.


----------



## Raven

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



JTB33b said:


> It's the PG product that is the issue. Sex and violence is what sells.


Agree, we need more of it.


----------



## Desprado

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

AJ as a champion is a total failure in terms of draw and ratings. You look at the house show attendance since deans was the champion and compare with these fucking 2 Weeks. It is a total disaster attendance in house shows and ratings.


----------



## wwetna1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> It just shows how much the WWE has fallen. There use to be a time where you couldn't skip wrestling, these days people would rather watch crappy shows like NCIS instead...


USA spent over 6 figures to get the syndication rights for NCIS and NCIS LA which both average over 1mil viewers per episode that they air as re runs. They have a huge following. Netflix itself couldn't pay for the amount demanded for the licensing free for NCIS LA because USA out bid them for universal hd replays

There is a reason they have went on for so long and can generate such revenue, ratings, and their ad space costs a boatload


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Desprado said:


> AJ as a champion is a total failure in terms of draw and ratings. You look at the house show attendance since deans was the champion and compare with these fucking 2 Weeks. It is a total disaster attendance in house shows and ratings.


 AJ is a fucking heel, the only thing that changes for the houseshows is AJ being the champion in the title matches. 

It's moronic to blame AJ for houseshow numbers before they've even come out. 

AJ has been champion not even 2 weeks and now houseshows are apparently down fpalm


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



imthegame19 said:


> AJ Styles is the champion and the ratings in his second week of champion are the worst live Smackdown numbers ever. Well WWE better hurry up and take that title off AJ next week. Before Smackdown ratings fall to TNA level of low and USA cancels Smackdown..... LOL anyways I'm just kidding, because that's the type of stupid claims that people would say when Ambrose got a low rating show lol. Facts are none of these guys are draws right now. People just aren't into wrestling that much these days. So with the wrestling fan-base getting so low, it's pretty hard for one of these guys to be stars or make a difference.


I don't understand this. You claim that people blamed Ambrose for the ratings so they should also blame AJ, but the huge difference there is that when Ambrose was blamed, he was the focus of the show.

AJ was on screen for 30 seconds last night and the heavily promoted match was Ambrose and Cena.

If you are gonna blame anyone for lack of interest in the show, surely its gotta be the two guys the show was built around?

And yes, obviously no one is a huge draw these days and you can't blame it on certain individuals. But I don't know why you are acting as if the same reason people used to blame Ambrose for the ratings applies to Styles last night.


----------



## sarcasma

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Desprado said:


> AJ as a champion is a total failure in terms of draw and ratings. You look at the house show attendance since deans was the champion and compare with these fucking 2 Weeks. It is a total disaster attendance in house shows and ratings.


Any numbers to back this up?


----------



## The True Believer

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Sweggeh said:


> I don't understand this. You claim that people blamed Ambrose for the ratings *so they should also blame AJ*,but the huge difference there is that when Ambrose was blamed, he was the focus of the show.
> 
> AJ was on screen for 30 seconds last night and the heavily promoted match was Ambrose and Cena.
> 
> If you are gonna blame anyone for lack of interest in the show, surely its gotta be the two guys the show was built around?
> 
> And yes, obviously no one is a huge draw these days and you can't blame it on certain individuals. But I don't know why you are acting as if the same reason people used to blame Ambrose for the ratings applies to Styles last night.


Where did he say people should blame AJ?


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The True Believer said:


> Where did he say people should blame AJ?





> *AJ Styles is the champion and the ratings in his second week of champion are the worst live Smackdown numbers ever. Well WWE better hurry up and take that title off AJ next week. Before Smackdown ratings fall to TNA level of low and USA cancels Smackdown..... LOL* anyways I'm just kidding, because that's the type of stupid claims that people would say when Ambrose got a low rating show lol. Facts are none of these guys are draws right now. People just aren't into wrestling that much these days. So with the wrestling fan-base getting so low, it's pretty hard for one of these guys to be stars or make a difference.


Yeah he said he was joking but he was mocking the people who blamed Ambrose for dropping ratings.

Which makes no sense, since those people can also blame him for low ratings for this weeks show, since he was the focus of it again, champion or no champion. He got the main event slot, which was heavily promoted. AJ had 30 seconds of screen time and no advertising for the show.


----------



## imthegame19

Sweggeh said:


> I don't understand this. You claim that people blamed Ambrose for the ratings so they should also blame AJ, but the huge difference there is that when Ambrose was blamed, he was the focus of the show.
> 
> AJ was on screen for 30 seconds last night and the heavily promoted match was Ambrose and Cena.
> 
> If you are gonna blame anyone for lack of interest in the show, surely its gotta be the two guys the show was built around?
> 
> And yes, obviously no one is a huge draw these days and you can't blame it on certain individuals. But I don't know why you are acting as if the same reason people used to blame Ambrose for the ratings applies to Styles last night.


I guess you totally missed the part where I was kidding about blaming AJ lol. Trying to act like the people who would blame Ambrose when Raw or Smackdown rating was bad. Which happened even if say AJ or anything wrestler had a bigger role on the show that week. In reality Ambrose/Cena/AJ were barley even on the show this week. None of them said a word to AJ backstage promo until what 840? Anyways I was just joking around with a overreaction post about blaming the champ after a poor rating. That I've Ambrose get and just you wait. There will be people turn on AJ with real posts like this soon enough.


----------



## The True Believer

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Sweggeh said:


> Yeah he said he was joking but he was mocking the people who blamed Ambrose for dropping ratings.
> 
> Which makes no sense, since those people can also blame him for low ratings for this weeks show, since he was the focus of it again, champion or no champion. He got the main event slot, which was heavily promoted. AJ had 30 seconds of screen time and no advertising for the show.


Why doesn't it make sense to mock them? You yourself said that there's no buzz in the WWE and that no one's a draw. Surely, changing the exception for one person deserves derision.


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The True Believer said:


> Why doesn't it make sense to mock them? You yourself said that there's no buzz in the WWE and that no one's a draw. Surely, changing the exception for one person deserves derision.


Because if you are the kind of person who believes that certain individuals are to blame for poor ratings, then you will still blame Ambrose for the ratings failure this week. Just like they did in the past when he was the focus of the show.

So it makes no sense to mock them when their point still stands, thats all Im saying.


----------



## The Figure 4

*John Cena helping SmackDown beat Raw*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> The [9/19 Raw show in Memphis] drew 6,400 fans, which for a great wrestling market like Memphis for a Raw is a bad number. It may be early to say this, but the surprisingly low turnouts for Raw in recent weeks coincides with Cena no longer being advertised on the Raw shows. Smackdown has also been up with Cena on all the Smackdown shows. It’s already proven that the axiom it’s the brand that draws isn’t the case with the wide variety between Cena’s numbers and that of all the other headliners, and there are even differences in the other headliners as well.


----------



## Sweggeh

*Re: John Cena helping SmackDown beat Raw*

So Smackdown beating RAW in house show attendance? I aint surprised.


----------



## KC Armstrong

*Re: John Cena helping SmackDown beat Raw*

As much as I like Cena, he sure as hell didn't help SmackDown's TV ratings this week. A 300K drop from the previous week despite the fact that they advertised Cena vs Ambrose as the main event. I thought he might have a more positive impact in that department.


----------



## The True Believer

*Re: John Cena helping SmackDown beat Raw*

Makes sense. Out of everyone out of the full-timers, Cena's the closest thing they have to a draw. Not by much but it's at least something.


----------



## Ace

*Re: John Cena helping SmackDown beat Raw*



KC Armstrong said:


> As much as I like Cena, he sure as hell didn't help SmackDown's TV ratings this week. A 300K drop from the previous week despite the fact that they advertised Cena vs Ambrose as the main event. I thought he might have a more positive impact in that department.


 He isn't a TV draw but he definitely gets more people to go to shows. There is a noticeable difference between shows with and without Cena.


----------



## The Figure 4

*Re: John Cena helping SmackDown beat Raw*



KC Armstrong said:


> As much as I like Cena, he sure as hell didn't help SmackDown's TV ratings this week. A 300K drop from the previous week despite the fact that they advertised Cena vs Ambrose as the main event. I thought he might have a more positive impact in that department.


They didn't advertise it. I think they announced it on WWE.com like a couple of days earlier but that's about it.


----------



## THE HAITCH

*Re: John Cena helping SmackDown beat Raw*

The REAL reason for Smackdown beating RAW is The Champ that runs the Camp.


----------



## Sweggeh

*Re: John Cena helping SmackDown beat Raw*



THE HAITCH said:


> The REAL reason for Smackdown beating RAW is The Champ that runs the Camp.


Cena, Seth Rollins and AJ are the only people who are actually improving house show attendances if you look at the statistics.


----------



## Sweggeh

*Re: John Cena helping SmackDown beat Raw*



KC Armstrong said:


> As much as I like Cena, he sure as hell didn't help SmackDown's TV ratings this week. A 300K drop from the previous week despite the fact that they advertised Cena vs Ambrose as the main event. I thought he might have a more positive impact in that department.


Yeah, that was pretty shocking. Maybe people aren't really that interested in a Cena-Ambrose feud.

We will see what happens next week with AJ vs Ambrose for the title. If that doesn't make much improvement in the ratings, then WWE are in huge trouble. 

I can see them hotshotting Orton back into the main event scene immediately or even asking Undertaker to come back early due to desperation.


----------



## Stadhart02

*Re: John Cena helping SmackDown beat Raw*

every April I go to the London RAW show and have never had any interest in going to SM. Next year is going to be different and I will be getting tickets to SM and not bothering with RAW

I know this thread is about Cena specifically but overall it doesn't surprise me


----------



## TopBabyface

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Sweggeh said:


> Because if you are the kind of person who believes that certain individuals are to blame for poor ratings, then you will still blame Ambrose for the ratings failure this week. Just like they did in the past when he was the focus of the show.
> 
> So it makes no sense to mock them when their point still stands, thats all Im saying.


So is it "no one is a draw" or "the one who is focus of the show should be blamed"?


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



TopBabyface said:


> So is it "no one is a draw" or "the one who is focus of the show should be blamed"?


What is it people find so hard to understand?

Im saying that no one is a draw these days. That is my personal opinion.

*BUT* mocking the people who said Ambrose isn't a draw is dumb, since this episode was mostly focused around him, he had the most significant air time and the most advertising for the show.

So *IF* you are of the mindset that individual guys can be blamed for poor ratings, this week has done nothing to change your mind. Which is why mocking them at this juncture makes no sense.

If the heavily advertised main event this week was AJ vs Cena, then Ambrose marks could have a reason to attack those people who blamed Ambrose for poor ratings. But since it was Ambrose vs Cena, well then you don't have a leg to stand on there.


----------



## TopBabyface

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

If you want to give shit to Ambrose, Reigns and Rollins for their title runs sucking with ratings you gotta eat same shit when one of your darling's run is drawing poor. I suggest AJ's marks to stretch real good for your mental gymnastics because he's gonna be the champion for a while and it looks like ratings will not be good at all.


----------



## dave 1981

*Re: John Cena helping SmackDown beat Raw*



KC Armstrong said:


> As much as I like Cena, he sure as hell didn't help SmackDown's TV ratings this week. A 300K drop from the previous week despite the fact that they advertised Cena vs Ambrose as the main event. I thought he might have a more positive impact in that department.


Wasn't Cena/Ambrose announced over the weekend on WWE.com ? Also last week was the show after a PPV which saw a new WWE champion crowned, the first show after a PPV always does the best ratings although Cena hasn't spiked TV ratings for a while now.

With Cena coming and going from TV also and people knowing that it doesn't do anything for TV ratings either, I do expect SmackDown to beat Raw in the ratings regularly by the end of the year and pretty much all the time on the lead up to WrestleMania 33 unless all the part timers (Rock, Undertaker, Lesnar and Triple H) are only used on Raw as SmackDown just has the better of everything.


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



TopBabyface said:


> If you want to give shit to Ambrose, Reigns and Rollins for their title runs sucking with ratings you gotta eat same shit when one of your darling's run is drawing poor. I suggest AJ's marks to stretch real good for your mental gymnastics because he's gonna be the champion for a while and it looks like ratings will not be good at all.


You are the one trying to do some mental gymnastics trying to deflect from Ambrose not being a draw.

They spent days hyping up Ambrose vs Cena and no one cared to tune in. If they spent that time advertising AJ vs Cena III, do I think more people would have tuned in? Hell yeah.

But at the end of the day it wouldn't make a whole lot of difference, just a few hundred thousand viewers more. WWE as a whole aint gonna be putting up big numbers any time soon.

Ambrose, Rollins and Reigns still deserve shit because despite AJ and KO being champions, the whole main event scene is being stunk up by these guys that sunk ratings before and continue to be a big part of the decline.


----------



## 3ku1

*Re: John Cena helping SmackDown beat Raw*

Well SD has better Stars then Raw. Cena, Styles, Orton, Ambrose e.t.c.


----------



## Mox Girl

*Re: John Cena helping SmackDown beat Raw*

I wouldn't be surprised if Cena is helping with the live event numbers tbh. When he was announced for the NZ & Aussie shows a couple of months back, they suddenly had a surge in ticket sales. They'd completely slowed down, but then they suddenly sped up again RIGHT after they added him to the roster for the tour. I guess a lot of people wanted to see him :lol

The other speed up in sales that ended up actually selling out the show in NZ was after they announced the full card, which was PPV worthy.


----------



## Riddle101

*Re: John Cena helping SmackDown beat Raw*

Won't be too long before Vince starts panicking that Smackdown is making Raw look bad, and decides to draft Cena to Raw.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

How could this SD not draw?



**I'm not blaming Ambrose by the way. But people on social media are and using this Austin picture**


----------



## TheFackingCrow

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Boy Wonder said:


> How could this SD not draw?
> 
> 
> 
> **I'm not blaming Ambrose by the way. But people on social media are and using this Austin picture**


Damn look at Austin face, he actually was about to kill him.


----------



## Dell

*Re: John Cena helping SmackDown beat Raw*



3ku1 said:


> Well SD has better Stars then Raw. Cena, Styles, Orton, Ambrose e.t.c.


and still can't draw

wrestling is ded


----------



## squarebox

*Re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here &gt;&gt; THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Sweggeh said:


> You are the one trying to do some mental gymnastics trying to deflect from Ambrose not being a draw.
> 
> They spent days hyping up Ambrose vs Cena and no one cared to tune in. If they spent that time advertising AJ vs Cena III, do I think more people would have tuned in? Hell yeah.
> 
> But at the end of the day it wouldn't make a whole lot of difference, just a few hundred thousand viewers more. WWE as a whole aint gonna be putting up big numbers any time soon.
> 
> Ambrose, Rollins and Reigns still deserve shit because despite AJ and KO being champions, the whole main event scene is being stunk up by these guys that sunk ratings before and continue to be a big part of the decline.


Yes let's just blame those three guys for shit ratings even though WWE's ratings have been declining before they were even champions.

Remember to remind me a few months from now when ratings are suddenly going to spike (yeah right) with KO / AJ as champions...no wait, I ain't petty enough to blame ratings on one guy on a show so no, I won't be doing that.


----------



## Sweggeh

*Re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here &gt;&gt; THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



squarebox said:


> Yes let's just blame those three guys for shit ratings even though WWE's ratings have been declining before they were even champions.
> 
> Remember to remind me a few months from now when ratings are suddenly going to spike (yeah right) with KO / AJ as champions...no wait, I ain't petty enough to blame ratings on one guy on a show so no, I won't be doing that.


I don't think its right to blame individual people for ratings on individual shows. Most of the time there are many factors at play and its not really fair to blame on person either way.

But for a period of over 3 years? Thats a pretty big piece of evidence. Since the Shield have been pushed into every main event story line for the last 3 years, the ratings have just continued to fall.

Is it all their fault? No, there is a lot of people to blame, including Vince and the shitty creative and their crappy booking. For example, Roman could have been a huge star but they totally destroyed him. So yes, the booking takes a lot of the blame.

But the wrestlers themselves definitely hold some blame though, since they were the guys handed the ball and haven't really done much with it.

If KO and AJ remain the be the two most pushed guys on the show for 3 years and the ratings just continue to fall, then you would be fair to criticize them for that, just as I am doing now to the Shield.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

*Re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here &gt;&gt; THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Sweggeh said:


> But for a period of over 3 years? Thats a pretty big piece of evidence. Since the Shield have been pushed into every main event story line for the last 3 years, the ratings have just continued to fall.
> 
> Is it all their fault? No, there is a lot of people to blame, including Vince and the shitty creative and their crappy booking. For example, Roman could have been a huge star but they totally destroyed him. So yes, the booking takes a lot of the blame.
> 
> But the wrestlers themselves definitely hold some blame though, since they were the guys handed the ball and haven't really done much with it.
> 
> If KO and AJ remain the be the two most pushed guys on the show for 3 years and the ratings just continue to fall, then you would be fair to criticize them for that, just as I am doing now to the Shield.


The "three-year" window is a pretty big blanket exaggeration. Reigns is the only one who really falls on the sword here since he was given carte blanche for basically everything in WWE. Rumble, WrestleMania main events, etc. Rollins moreso than Ambrose, but it's unfair to throw all three Shield members under the bus when Ambrose realistically has only really been on top this year and that's months, not years.

So, if Ambrose gets from, say, June 2016 till September 2016, then let's give AJ and Owens that long before we start picking up the pitchforks on them. Not three years. We're talking December here for a fair comparison to Ambrose. It's only fair. Given early indicators, it's only a matter of time.

Of course, I'm mostly kidding. Just pointing out the ridiculousness of giving AJ and Owens three years on top. It's WWE. It's systemic. They don't know how to make stars, they haven't successfully booked a top babyface since Bryan, and they need one bad before they can even start to do okay again.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

No one other than The Rock (a huge Hollywood star) draws TV ratings.. for gods sake just drop it.


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*


----------



## Mr.Amazing5441

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Well there is news that Ambrose will take a break from the show after no mercy:

http://www.inquisitr.com/3534318/ww...to-take-time-off-from-wwe-after-wwe-no-mercy/

(I dont know who is trustworthy nowadays but these guys correctly predicted ambrose push so I guess they could be right)

So now with ambrose gone and cena gone, and Styles the only guys running the show with maybe Orton. We could see if it's really ambrose pulling the ratings down or is the show just dying. Or maybe is it Styles.


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I don't expect much of a bump this week. Hopefully people will realize that Smackdown isn't a complete waste of time and tune in soon enough.


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Hopefully the trend of 85% of RAW's rating will stop and SDL actually get an increase from last week.


----------



## Asuka842

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Well it doesn't have US Presidential debate, involving Donald Trump and a Clinton, to compete directly against. So that might help. Plus no football either.


----------



## SilvasBrokenLeg

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It will get 2.1-2.2 million viewers.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Don't think the ratings will be great, but I'm content as long as they keep delivering.


----------



## FROSTY

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*They keep putting out consistently good shows every week the ratings will start to climb.*


----------



## chrispepper

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I really need Smackdown to beat RAW in the ratings this week...


----------



## tmd02

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

To the casual audience, it doesn't matter if every SD from now is a 10/10 great show.

Smackdown will be the one that gets hurt thanks to how bad Raw is.

Hear me out, lets say some kid and their family put Raw on for 3 hours and they see that it's an awful show like yesterday, do you think a casual will realize that Smackdown has a different writer and will be a different, better and shorter show all round?

Nope, they will say "Why would I take a chance on another 2 hours, I've already wasted 3"...

I'm convinced the Tuesday move was to make sure SD will never beat Raw, burn out the fans.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*SDL viewership and demo:
9/27/16 Vs 9/20/16

2.340M Vs 2.292M (+0.048M / +2.09%)
0.740D Vs 0.730D

SDL Vs RAW viewership and demo this week: 
2.340M Vs 2.478M (-0.138M/ 94.43%)
0.740D Vs 0.833D

Note: 
SDL is #1 by demo & #6 by viewership.*










*Y-Y viewership and demo:
9/27/16 Vs 10/1/15

2.340M Vs 2.132M (+0.208M / +9.76%)
0.740D Vs 0.600D

SDL Vs RAW viewership this week last year: 
2.132M Vs 3.330M (-1.198M/ 64.02%)
0.600D Vs 1.137D

Note: 
SDL this week last year was #3 by demo & #10 by viewership.*


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Its a shame that people are missing out on a vastly superior show just because it isn't named Raw...I don't know if its ignorance of the product(not knowing about the draft, not knowing its on Tuesday, etc...) or stupidity.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Well, at least it's an improvement over last year. Still, a disappointing number all things considered. I question if even a Cena/Styles title match could get back the show back up to over 2.5 million viewers. As said, no one is a draw anymore and Smackdown is clearly still in Raw's shadow to a lot of people.


----------



## SilvasBrokenLeg

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Did slightly better than I thought, but still failed to beat RAW. 

They were better off with a single unified roster.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

More proof that SDL will never beat RAW ratings wise, even though it is the superior product. Why? Viewer fatigue. They share the same viewers and some just won't watch a de facto fourth and fifth hour of RAW. The audience retention rate of 94% is higher than usual, but there are no new viewers to show for the brand split. Since it didn't happen this week, I don't foresee SDL ever surpassing RAW.


----------



## squarebox

*Re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt; THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



StylesP1 said:


> Its a shame that people are missing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> out on a vastly superior show just because it isn't named Raw...I don't know if its ignorance of the product(not knowing about the draft, not knowing its on Tuesday, etc...) or stupidity.


I think it has to do with the fact that RAW has been their flagship show for the last 10+ years and people are just conditioned to think that SD is still that 2 hour B show that nobody should care about.

Edit: and yeah I was going to say that too Shiv...I reckon for a lot of people, sitting through 3 hours of RAW is more than enough wrestling in a 24 hour period. 

Honestly I'm not surprised it still hasn't beaten RAW, but I wouldn't say it never has a chance. It just needs more time to really establish itself imo.


----------



## wwf

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

They should have made Smackdown go live, but without the roster split. But if they did this, they wouldn't have been able to tell how shitty the RAW creative ideas are compared to Smackdown's. The data speaks volume. Raw's ratings tanked while Smackdown's increased and stayed steady.

Also, they should have made Smackdown live be on Wednesday or Thursday. I know that would be hard due to all the scheduled live events on Tuesday, but to maximize ratings that's what would be best. 5 hours back to back is hard for anyone to do. Even if it was Game of Thrones or whatever.


----------



## The Tempest

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



StylesP1 said:


> Its a shame that people are missing out on a vastly superior show just because it isn't named Raw...I don't know if its ignorance of the product(not knowing about the draft, not knowing its on Tuesday, etc...) or stupidity.


:kobe What is wrong with you with this annoying white knighting of SD as of late. Yes it is a good show we all know that, but the way you say it every chance you get is, quite honestly, obnoxious :kobe


----------



## D.M.N.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

With quarter three (July to September) now complete, here are how things are looking percentage wise. The +/- is an average of the comparison between (i.e. for Q3 2016):

- the previous quarter (Q2 2016)
- one year earlier (Q3 2015)
- two years earlier (Q3 2014)

Here are the quarter three percentage figures for recent years:

*+8.5% = 2016*
+2.4% = 2014
-13.7% = 2015

From a year perspective, the move to Tuesday nights and better promotion of SmackDown has helped numbers jump back to the 2014 average, but whether the numbers can hold up remains to be seen:

Q3 2012 = 2.69 million
Q3 2013 = 2.57 million (down 4.5%)
Q3 2014 = 2.66 million (up 3.5%)
Q3 2015 = 2.22 million (down 16.4%)
Q3 2016 = 2.55 million (up 14.7%)


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Tempest said:


> :kobe What is wrong with you with this annoying white knighting of SD as of late. Yes it is a good show we all know that, but the way you say it every chance you get is, quite honestly, obnoxious :kobe


No clue what you are talking about. I just give opinions on topics at hand.


----------



## Thanks12

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

When will SD ever beat Raw? SD is the better show.


----------



## BehindYou

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

94% of the RAW audience is higher than normal but I guess that's because the debate pulled RAW down.

I think it'll take 6 months of SD beind consistently good to start taking RAW viewers.


----------



## KO Bossy

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Guys, you have to be more lenient on SD. Maybe someday, at this current pace, it'll beat Raw. However, think about it:

-Raw has been on Monday nights since 1993. Once upon a time, wrestling night was Saturday night, and that changed. Now, Monday is wrestling night, they've become synonymous with each other. At this point, its almost habit to watch wrestling Mondays. Smackdown, on the other hand, has flipped between Thursday, Friday, back to Thursday and now, for the past 2 months, is now Tuesday. The constant day changes have contributed to the viewership number. Tuesday isn't an established wrestling day.

-Raw had the benefit of the Monday Night Wars to help strengthen its Monday night position as must see TV. The best Smackdown ever had was the Thursday wars with Thunder. Not exactly the stuff of legends. It also leads me to my next point...

-Smackdown has always been the B show. Once upon a time, shit happened on Smackdown. That was also like...over a decade ago. Since then, what is Smackdown? The show where the guys not good enough to get on Raw wrestled and where they did recaps of all the important shit that happened during Raw. They treated it terribly, and as such, its reputation isn't the greatest overall. That reputation wasn't garnered overnight, it took years. The draft was just over 2 months ago. You can't undo a bad rep that took years to create in 2 months. I'll bet a lot of people who don't watch WWE anymore probably still assume Smackdown has stirring main events like Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett for the millionth time.


Smackdown is still establishing its identity right now, and its going to take time for word to get out that its a solid show. Eventually, the ratings will get higher if they keep doing what they're doing. But to expect the show that was treated like crap and constantly flip flopped nights to realistically contend with the show that's been the flagship for 23 years and lived through an era that drew an all time record for eyes viewing a product after 2 months of going solo isn't realistic.

Hey, at least the ratings aren't going DOWN, unlike a certain other show...


----------



## Godway

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

They got some solid increases since the split, I don't really see what the big deal is here. SD getting up to RAW in the ratings was never going to be easy, regardless of what they do.


----------



## Godway

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



KO Bossy said:


> Guys, you have to be more lenient on SD. Maybe someday, at this current pace, it'll beat Raw. However, think about it:
> 
> -Raw has been on Monday nights since 1993. Once upon a time, wrestling night was Saturday night, and that changed. Now, Monday is wrestling night, they've become synonymous with each other. At this point, its almost habit to watch wrestling Mondays. Smackdown, on the other hand, has flipped between Thursday, Friday, back to Thursday and now, for the past 2 months, is now Tuesday. The constant day changes have contributed to the viewership number. Tuesday isn't an established wrestling day.
> 
> -Raw had the benefit of the Monday Night Wars to help strengthen its Monday night position as must see TV. The best Smackdown ever had was the Thursday wars with Thunder. Not exactly the stuff of legends. It also leads me to my next point...
> 
> -Smackdown has always been the B show. Once upon a time, shit happened on Smackdown. That was also like...over a decade ago. Since then, what is Smackdown? The show where the guys not good enough to get on Raw wrestled and where they did recaps of all the important shit that happened during Raw. They treated it terribly, and as such, its reputation isn't the greatest overall. That reputation wasn't garnered overnight, it took years. The draft was just over 2 months ago. You can't undo a bad rep that took years to create in 2 months. I'll bet a lot of people who don't watch WWE anymore probably still assume Smackdown has stirring main events like Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett for the millionth time.
> 
> 
> Smackdown is still establishing its identity right now, and its going to take time for word to get out that its a solid show. Eventually, the ratings will get higher if they keep doing what they're doing. But to expect the show that was treated like crap and constantly flip flopped nights to realistically contend with the show that's been the flagship for 23 years and lived through an era that drew an all time record for eyes viewing a product after 2 months of going solo isn't realistic.
> 
> *Hey, at least the ratings aren't going DOWN, unlike a certain other show*...


Bingo. The percentages of RAW's lost viewers this year are humiliating. SD might not have built their audience up yet (and may never, who knows) but they're not bleeding viewers every week either.


----------



## Sincere

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

If SD ever wants to pull ahead of Raw, it will have to be in it for the long haul. There was never going to be any immediate turn around. They just have to keep doing what they're doing where SD is concerned, and they'll establish the brand and the talent of the brand a solid reputation with a solid base following, then it will grow from there.


----------



## jim courier

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Smackdown is definitely the better show but the ultimately the brand split has been a total failure so far. Raw slipping to record low ratings and Smackdown not getting enough of a ratings increase to justify the extra cost of filming live.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Sincere said:


> If SD ever wants to pull ahead of Raw, it will have to be in it for the long haul. There was never going to be any immediate turn around. They just have to keep doing what they're doing where SD is concerned, and they'll establish the brand and the talent of the brand a solid reputation with a solid base following, then it will grow from there.


Basically true for all ratings trends. You _might_ get a ratings pop for some hotdogging on one show, but that's not usually sustainable. WWE as a whole has been pretty consistently bad for several years. Fans stick around and are only falling off slowly because so many are hopeful that things will improve, but little by little, as things don't improve, more fans abandon the product. It takes a long time for ratings to drop as far as they have, and it's going to take a longer time to win fans back for the numbers to come back up. I really do think SD is on the right track, while RAW is stuck doing the same shit that WWE has been doing for years. I'm sure that RAW generally stinking up Monday nights isn't helping SD, either, as most viewers know that it's still all WWE.


----------



## Godway

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



jim courier said:


> Smackdown is definitely the better show but the ultimately the brand split has been a total failure so far. Raw slipping to record low ratings and Smackdown not getting enough of a ratings increase to justify the extra cost of filming live.


The brand split has KILLED RAW. It's basically offering its viewers an opportunity to not watch Stephanie/HHH/Roman and they're taking them up on it. RAW's roster is fucking atrocious. 

If this split lasts a year I'd be shocked.


----------



## jim courier

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Godway said:


> The brand split has KILLED RAW. It's basically offering its viewers an opportunity to not watch Stephanie/HHH/Roman and they're taking them up on it. RAW's roster is fucking atrocious.
> 
> If this split lasts a year I'd be shocked.


There has never been a tv show that has been as consistently bad for the longest time that hasn't been cut as Raw. You're watching 3 hours for a 5 minute promo from Y2J.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Godway said:


> The brand split has KILLED RAW. *It's basically offering its viewers an opportunity to not watch Stephanie/HHH*/Roman and they're taking them up on it. RAW's roster is fucking atrocious.
> 
> If this split lasts a year I'd be shocked.


That's me all over. Although I don't think RAW's roster is all that bad as much as the writing is still as horrendous as it always was. AND Stephanie can't keep her fat ass and horse face away from the front of the fucking camera for five minutes. Lots more things killing RAW than the roster, I think.


----------



## Cipher

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Why the hell are you dudes debating RAW and SD ratings like it's RAW vs Nitro? It's the same company lol, RAW reaching record lows and SD having the same stagnant viewership is not good.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

If RAW were a user here, his username would have *Humbled* beneath it. SDL has the preferred ratings trajectory.


----------



## Godway

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Cleaner said:


> That's me all over. Although I don't think RAW's roster is all that bad as much as the writing is still as horrendous as it always was. AND Stephanie can't keep her fat ass and horse face away from the front of the fucking camera for five minutes. Lots more things killing RAW than the roster, I think.


Their roster from top to bottom is filled with every anti-draw in the WWE. It's not surprising that the numbers have plummeted.


----------



## KO Bossy

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Godway said:


> The brand split has KILLED RAW. It's basically offering its viewers an opportunity to not watch Stephanie/HHH/Roman and they're taking them up on it. RAW's roster is fucking atrocious.
> 
> If this split lasts a year I'd be shocked.


Which is really funny, because we all thought Raw, at the draft, had the superior roster and Smackdown got hosed. Instead, Smackdown feels like a breath of fresh air, free of Vince's constraints and Raw is the result of WWE actually "trying". "Well, Raw is our flagship, we have to go all out!" And them caring means they actively put effort into trying to make it good, which because they're incompetent, makes it suck. Smackdown they don't care about, so its like they leave it up to people with a clue to put together and shockingly, its GOOD!


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I disagree with people who say that the brand split killed RAW.
RAW had shrinking viewership all year long, it didn't start with the split.

If the split didn't happen RAW would be exactly the same as it is now, the same people would be pushed and the same stories (if e can call them that) would be told.
The only difference with the split is that the people who wouldn't get used or mishandled on RAW are now being used properly on Smackdown.


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

lol even on a night where the most watched debate in history happened Smackdown still cant beat Raw. 

TBH I don't think Smackdown will ever beat raw. I think at this point smackdown is on a steady line. Not going up much not going down much.


----------



## Chrome

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



D.M.N. said:


> With quarter three (July to September) now complete, here are how things are looking percentage wise. The +/- is an average of the comparison between (i.e. for Q3 2016):
> 
> - the previous quarter (Q2 2016)
> - one year earlier (Q3 2015)
> - two years earlier (Q3 2014)
> 
> Here are the quarter three percentage figures for recent years:
> 
> *+8.5% = 2016*
> +2.4% = 2014
> -13.7% = 2015
> 
> From a year perspective, the move to Tuesday nights and better promotion of SmackDown has helped numbers jump back to the 2014 average, but whether the numbers can hold up remains to be seen:
> 
> Q3 2012 = 2.69 million
> Q3 2013 = 2.57 million (down 4.5%)
> Q3 2014 = 2.66 million (up 3.5%)
> Q3 2015 = 2.22 million (down 16.4%)
> Q3 2016 = 2.55 million (up 14.7%)


Little sad that a taped Smackdown on Friday nights where most people go out can do better than a live Smackdown on Tuesday nights where most people are home. Just shows how much damage has been to both shows really.


----------



## Godway

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



KO Bossy said:


> Which is really funny, because we all thought Raw, at the draft, had the superior roster and Smackdown got hosed. Instead, Smackdown feels like a breath of fresh air, free of Vince's constraints and Raw is the result of WWE actually "trying". "Well, Raw is our flagship, we have to go all out!" And them caring means they actively put effort into trying to make it good, which because they're incompetent, makes it suck. Smackdown they don't care about, so its like they leave it up to people with a clue to put together and shockingly, its GOOD!


I don't think they're actively trying on RAW at all. I think they know that their show sucks and can't compete with the NFL or whatever else, so they just mail it in for 90% of the show. They're HIDING from the competition. Notice how Roman Reigns opened RAW this week. Why? Because the first half hour was unopposed, and they put Roman in the spot of having the most eyes on him, because no matter what they say, Roman Reigns is still the main focal point of RAW and the WWE itself. Even though they gave him two straight main events that drew two straight record lows. 

Who'd they put in the deathslot? That's right, Kevin Owens. Why isn't HHH on TV to further their storyline? Because there isn't enough viewers to "justify" HHH's presence. And it's not Mania season, which is the only time of the year WWE actually gives a fuck anymore because they only sell one show a year. (and look at the build to THOSE shows, that's them trying)

Their attitude is "Our guys CAN'T draw, so we're just not going to try to make them draw." Like...if you're that fucking popular, you should be in the position where WWE needs to pull viewers AWAY from Football or Debates or whatever. Instead, they book to HIDE their guys from losing viewers to these other programs. So that way they can throw everyone else under the bus. Which is exactly what HHH is doing to his own guys by hiding from TV.

This is why they sorely miss guys like Punk. If you told him "We gotta keep you away from this timeslot because of Football" his attitude would be put me in that spot and I'll cut the most badass promo you ever heard.


----------



## TheFackingCrow

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Cipher said:


> Why the hell are you dudes debating RAW and SD ratings like it's RAW vs Nitro? It's the same company lol, RAW reaching record lows and SD having the same stagnant viewership is not good.


SD marks acting as if that shit was the greatest show ever is fucking hilarious.

It's basically the same fucking shit as Raw, but with less fillers. None of the shows will draw because they both fucking sucks.


----------



## The RainMaker

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

But But But..SD is so good! So well booked! The character development and storylines are great!












Can't beat a RAW that went up against the biggest Presidential Debate in history, MNF, and had an unannounced main event of Jeriko vs. Enzo and Cass, and that's WITH AJ vs. Ambrose FOR THE WORLD TITLE.





ROFL.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Do people miss the fact that this was a PPV week with a mediocre Clash of Champions event and a horrible RAW to add? People are exhausted with the mediocrity so much from this company that there was no point in giving SD a chance, even if it is the better brand currently (although it gets its overrated praise too). People still see SD as the "second" show, no matter how better it is than RAW. That has been instilled upon them for more than a decade. Hell, SD in 2002-2004 was the clear superior brand to the WCW Old People reunion tour/Reign of HHH World Title terror happening at RAW at that period and it couldn't beat RAW either. It's going to take a couple of YEARS (yes, you heard me. YEARS). A year or two isn't going to get the job done here. The problem with that however is that WWE necessarily doesn't have that much time to do so with NBCUniversal breathing down their necks. NBCU gave WWE and Smackdown a final chance to improve their bad ratings by going live AND moving to Tuesdays. If THAT can't even beat a wounded, horrible as fuck RAW and their less than 2.0 ratings then SD is fucked regardless. If SD continues this trend heading into the television contract renewals (which are next year I believe?), then SD is more than likely getting canceled, the brand split is mercifully over, and RAW is the only brand on TV for WWE which is rapidly declining in all aspects.

People don't realize how BAD this is for Smackdown, even if the quality COMPARED to RAW is superior.


----------



## KO Bossy

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Godway said:


> I don't think they're actively trying on RAW at all. I think they know that their show sucks and can't compete with the NFL or whatever else, so they just mail it in for 90% of the show. They're HIDING from the competition. Notice how Roman Reigns opened RAW this week. Why? Because the first half hour was unopposed, and they put Roman in the spot of having the most eyes on him, because no matter what they say, Roman Reigns is still the main focal point of RAW and the WWE itself. Even though they gave him two straight main events that drew two straight record lows.
> 
> Who'd they put in the deathslot? That's right, Kevin Owens. Why isn't HHH on TV to further their storyline? Because there isn't enough viewers to "justify" HHH's presence. And it's not Mania season, which is the only time of the year WWE actually gives a fuck anymore because they only sell one show a year. (and look at the build to THOSE shows, that's them trying)
> 
> Their attitude is "Our guys CAN'T draw, so we're just not going to try to make them draw." Like...if you're that fucking popular, you should be in the position where WWE needs to pull viewers AWAY from Football or Debates or whatever. Instead, they book to HIDE their guys from losing viewers to these other programs. So that way they can throw everyone else under the bus. Which is exactly what HHH is doing to his own guys by hiding from TV.
> 
> This is why they sorely miss guys like Punk. If you told him "We gotta keep you away from this timeslot because of Football" his attitude would be put me in that spot and I'll cut the most badass promo you ever heard.


Well come on, we both know that Hunter is coming back the first Monday after football is over when the ratings will automatically get better and he can look like a hero. AND he'll book himself to get all the glory spots and look like a babyface in his feud with Seth. Aside from that, he'll make the occasional PPV appearance since there's no metric anymore to judge his drawing power (said metric ceased to exist with the network launch).

As for whether they're trying or not now, its hard to tell. They may very well not be, but if the grounds we use to judge are the RTWM shows, and those suck ass just as much, how can we tell?


----------



## Ace

5 hrs over 2 days is way too much. At this point the only people watching Raw are doing so out of habit rather than talent or booking. It's going take another year of solid shows for SD to improve. It has the stink of the B show and I can understand why they would need a week off wrestling after watching 3 hrs of Raw every week.



The K3vin Ow3ns Show said:


> But But But..SD is so good! So well booked! The character development and storylines are great!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't beat a RAW that went up against the biggest Presidential Debate in history, MNF, and had an unannounced main event of Jeriko vs. Enzo and Cass, and that's WITH AJ vs. Ambrose FOR THE WORLD TITLE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROFL.


 The Kevin Owens show recorded record low ratings (lowest non holiday episode in Raw history) buddy. No need to brag or dismiss others when SD is at least on the upward trend.


----------



## wwetna1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Chrome said:


> Little sad that a taped Smackdown on Friday nights where most people go out can do better than a live Smackdown on Tuesday nights where most people are home. Just shows how much damage has been to both shows really.


Sd came on Fridays from 2005-2015. That's 10 years, which is longer than its stay on Thursdays or Tuesdays. Forgetting that it had a slightly different audience with it being on free tv, they had a decade of recognition with Friday nights. They had the constant problem with SyFy only wanting them live if they aired it on Fridays live, but that wasn't feasible with the truck travel. It's going to take time to be associated with Tuesdays. I know Friday was supposed to be the death slot but they rocked it and had a core audience that followed that night because like death and taxes it was just their night. WWE has to keep SDL on Tuesdays and cement it there for years for that to be seen as its day. I mean there is a reason there isn't a thing as NBA on TNT on Wednesdays or Tuesday Night Football, brand recognition


----------



## Mr.S

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I think we are at a point where SD could beat Raw in the ratings. I really think WWE should help SD - The roster is incredibly thin at this point. The midcard has to be build. The depth is so pathetic you have Baron Corbin or Apollo Crews wrestling time .

WWE needs to give Smackdown 3-4 good guys from NXT - Samoa Joe for a upper mid-card heel after Styles, Ambrose(turn him heel) & Wyatt. Draft in Nakamura for a top babyface to replace Ambrose as a heel. And get Hideo Itami & Austin Aries as a mid-card face & heel - Both of them excellent in ring guys who can be a workhorse. Get Revival & split Rhyno & Slater & you can get a couple of decent faces for the mid-card. And Asuka needs to come to SD as a top heel, they lack a genuine top women heel! And fire Accession or keep them as jobbers! 
Smackdown - 

Faces - 

Cena
Orton
Nakamura
Shelton Benjamin
Ziggler
Kane
Kalisto
Hideo Itami
Health Slater
Apollo Crews
Rhyno
Jack Swagger

Heels - 

Styles
Ambrose
Wyatt
Samoa Joe
Miz
Austin Aries
Baron Corbin
Eric Rowan

They obviously have too few Mid-card heels - 

Turn Swagger heel with his Tea Party gimmick which will be insanely over in this Presidential election time
Turn Ziggler heel for a reboot of his character

Tag teams - 
American Alpha
Usos
Revival
Hype Bros
Breezango
Accession

Female - 

Becky Lynch (Face)
Nikki Bella (Face)
Naomi (Face)
Alex Bliss (Heel)
Asuka (Heel)
Carmella (Heel)
Natalya (Heel/Face as required)
Eva Maria (Heel - Special attraction since she can't wrestle)

The roster depth in the mid-card is pathetic. You need 7-8 guys from NXT to be split among heels n babyfaces. You can't have Miz, Ziggler & Corbin & Crews wrestling every week among themselves the same matches & what happens if Miz has to shot a movie & Corbin/Crews get injured, etc!

Smackdown has the potential to beat RAW if they beef up the squad!


----------



## komba

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It doesn't happen overnight guys... If Smackdown continues to be booked this well and there aren't a rash of injuries, the ratings will show. Just takes time.


----------



## Mra22

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



KO Bossy said:


> Which is really funny, because we all thought Raw, at the draft, had the superior roster and Smackdown got hosed. Instead, Smackdown feels like a breath of fresh air, free of Vince's constraints and Raw is the result of WWE actually "trying". "Well, Raw is our flagship, we have to go all out!" And them caring means they actively put effort into trying to make it good, which because they're incompetent, makes it suck. Smackdown they don't care about, so its like they leave it up to people with a clue to put together and shockingly, its GOOD!


Pretty sure Vince has his hands on SD while HHH and Steph have their hands on RAW


----------



## Darren Criss

Straw Hat said:


> The Kevin Owens show recorded record low ratings (lowest non holiday episode in Raw history) buddy. No need to brag or dismiss others when SD is at least on the upward trend.


Ignore him, he's just an fanboy mad because no one cares about Raw, the place where his favorite belongs. :lmao


----------



## Starbuck

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I'm really surprised SD couldn't do it given the stiff competition Raw was up against this week. This leads me to believe that it's probably never going to happen. The entire WWE product is cold. Raw, SD, PPV, it doesn't matter. They're all tarred with the same shitty brush. Nobody fucking cares about any of the guys on this roster because they haven't been given any reason to. The actual draws and stars of the past have lost their shine and aren't able to pop even a temporary number anymore. Nothing is going to change until WWE gets some goodwill back with lapsed fans or brings in new ones. They need a few guys who are capable of crossing over even slightly. Reigns and Co ain't it.


----------



## Cipher

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

LOL
https://twitter.com/TheFrayMovement/status/783148803578658816
https://twitter.com/TheFrayMovement/status/783150558932639744


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Cipher said:


> LOL
> https://twitter.com/TheFrayMovement/status/783148803578658816
> https://twitter.com/TheFrayMovement/status/783150558932639744


 For a declining product on a Monday night when MNF and Raw are on..

Question is why they even bother working Mondays, they're better off just giving the talent the night off.


----------



## Restomaniac

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Cipher said:


> LOL
> https://twitter.com/TheFrayMovement/status/783148803578658816
> https://twitter.com/TheFrayMovement/status/783150558932639744


Any grown ass man that wears a 'Roman empire' T-shirt that goes by the name of Freykenstein need to be instantaneously ignored.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*SDL viewership and demo:
10/4/16 Vs 9/27/16

2.316M Vs 2.340M (-0.024M / -1.04%)
0.71D Vs 0.74D

SDL Vs RAW viewership this week: 
2.316M Vs 2.797M
(-0.481M/ 82.80%)

Note: 
SDL is #7 by demo & #9 by viewership.*










*Y-Y viewership and demo:
10/4/16 Vs 10/8/15

2.316M Vs 2.147M (+0.169M / +7.87%)
0.71D Vs 0.56D

SDL Vs RAW viewership this week last year: 
2.147M Vs 3.378M
(-1.231M/ 63.56%)

Note: 
SDL this week last year was #7 by demo & #5 by viewership.*


----------



## Kabraxal

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Pretty decent hold actually. Seems SDL has at least found a steady and consistent base for now. If the quality continues, by the end of the year it should be teasing 3 million regularly.


----------



## Sincere

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

That's actually not too terrible, considering the debate and MLB. I was expecting maybe a bit worse than that, tbh. Not that the ratings are good, but I figured they'd be lower.


----------



## Darren Criss

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I was not waiting 2M due the debate tbh


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Hey now, that's a pretty steady hold there. less than 500,000 viewer difference than the flagship show that has been on for 25+ years. 

The split has been a success for Smackdown so far.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SDL is consistently drawing at least 80 something percent of RAW's audience. I wonder if they'll ever manage to break through the 100% barrier?


----------



## Randy Lahey

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



StylesP1 said:


> Hey now, that's a pretty steady hold there. less than 500,000 viewer difference than the flagship show that has been on for 25+ years.
> 
> The split has been a success for Smackdown so far.


Given how much more it costs to produce a live show than a taped one, I doubt it's seen as a success by WWE. They basically only jumped the ratings .2 of a point (from 1.5s before the split to 1.7s after it). It was doing in the 1.5s last year at this time as a taped show on a lesser visible network than USA. 

1.7s would eventually get Raw cancelled. Not sure why Smackdown would be any different.


----------



## The_Jiz

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Consistent is good and its an ok rating (for SDL) but still a bit disappointing.


----------



## reamstyles

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Split is success for me, but putting it live week by week might not be cost efficient..


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Randy Lahey said:


> Given how much more it costs to produce a live show than a taped one, I doubt it's seen as a success by WWE. They basically only jumped the ratings .2 of a point (from 1.5s before the split to 1.7s after it). It was doing in the 1.5s last year at this time as a taped show on a lesser visible network than USA.
> 
> 1.7s would eventually get Raw cancelled. Not sure why Smackdown would be any different.


The difference between the shows are huge. Smackdown needs a lot of time to build up viewership and to get Raw level ratings. Smackdown isn't the name brand that Raw is, and it hasn't been on the same night and same station for 25+ years. There are different expectations when it comes to advertisers and USA. With the quality that SDL has been, I expect viewership to steadily rise over the next year. It should, anyway.


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The vice-president debate was on at that time, right?

If so, I think the numbers held up pretty well this week. Hopefully they can reach ~2.8 ish numbers again soon.

edit: looks like there was a well-watched baseball game as well, alongside (for the 1st hour of SD):

The Voice - 7.81M - (Clip Show)
NCIS - 13.90M
Dancing With The Stars 8.84M
The Flash - 3.13M (Season Premiere)
New Girl - 2.15 M 

Those will be there next week as well, but looks like the baseball game and the debate didn't hurt the viewership too much.


----------



## reamstyles

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

In this new era, Smackdown being a new brand is much better than being a secondary show, because even the smarks would just check the highlights in youtube and never ever bother to sit two hours to watch it on tv if it would be used as an extension to raw, it isnt 1999-2000 anymore where you can put good ratings on athe extension show..

Best timeslot is still thursday but more costly to put it live that day..


----------



## HenryBowers

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> For a declining product on a Monday night when MNF and Raw are on..
> 
> Question is why they even bother working Mondays, they're better off just giving the talent the night off.


Give the slaves ahem the talent a day off? Cant have that.


----------



## wwetna1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

A look at where blue stand on cable this week










Broadcast viewership for Tuesday if you want to account for it










For kicks here is Raws cable standings for Monday


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*SDL viewerships since The Draft:

3.170M-----19 July 2016
2.835M-----30 August 2016
2.743M-----26 July 2016
2.714M-----23 August 2016
2.681M-----2 August 2016
2.658M-----13 September 2016
2.471M-----16 August 2016
2.455M-----9 August 2016
2.454M-----6 September 2016
2.340M-----27 September 2016
2.316M-----4 October 2016
2.292M-----20 September 2016

2.594M-----Average(12 episodes)

SDL ratings since The Draft:

2.20R-----19 July 2016
1.95R-----30 August 2016
1.92R-----26 July 2016
1.92R-----23 August 2016
1.86R-----2 August 2016
1.86R-----13 September 2016
1.76R-----6 September 2016
1.72R-----16 August 2016
1.70R-----20 September 2016
1.69R-----9 August 2016
1.69R-----27 September 2016
1.58R-----4 October 2016

1.82R-----Average(12 episodes)*

*The SDL this week scored the 2nd lowest viewership and the lowest rating since The Draft.*


----------



## HenryBowers

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

There is simply too much product. Even 5 hrs of Game of Thrones would be too much.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Not expecting a good number based on the activity in the thread (seems to be a correlation between ratings and thread activity).

3 nights of wrestling, so wrestling fatigue may be a factor too.


----------



## wwetna1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Straw Hat said:


> Not expecting a good number based on the activity in the thread (seems to be a correlation between ratings and thread activity).
> 
> 3 nights of wrestling, so wrestling fatigue may be a factor too.


Hard to really tell since Tuesday is the most watched night of television in America statistically. They have to fight with the shows that draw NCIS, Bull, Flash, Pretty Little Liars, and the list goes on. I's the catch 22 of all networks on Tuesdays. You don't get as great a number as you can because of the competition but you also have so many eyes on the product. The NBA has brought back Tuesday Fan Night already and we are in the preseason, MLB has their playoff games, and so on. 

The weakest nights for TV in America are Wed and Fri. Usually you book shows with a loyal audience on Wed like Arrow, Empire, etc. And on Friday you gimmick u a block like the old TGIF.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*SDL viewership & demo:
10/11/16 Vs 10/4/16

2.448M Vs 2.316M (+0.132M/+5.70%)
0.79D Vs 0.71D

SDL Vs RAW: 
2.448M Vs 2.759M
(-0.311M/ 88.73%)

Note: 
SDL is #6 by viewership & #2 by demo.*










*Y-Y viewership & demo:
10/11/16 Vs 10/15/15

2.448M Vs 2.090M (+0.358M/+17.13%)
0.79D Vs 0.59D

SDL Vs RAW Y-Y: 
2.090M Vs 3.285M
(-1.195M/ 63.62%)

Note: 
SDL this week last year was #6 by viewership & #6 by demo.*


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Down to a 300,000 difference? Keep on with the quality and keep climbing.


----------



## Kabraxal

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Not bad... if it just maintains around there for a while, it is already showing that SD is at least keeping people interested. If they keep it up, it is only a matter of time before people start migrating to Tuesday as their wrestling night and SDL starts to climb. 

I'm actually surprised it went up despite the PPV bump. That Cubs/Giants game usually would signal some of the more hardcore wrestling fans not being around. I know I switched at commercial and uh.. never came back. Don't kill me guys. Please. It's the Cubbies. And I paid for it by going through a roller coaster and head bashing before the even year miracle died.


----------



## Zigglerpops

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

James Ellsworth is a draw, Make him champ


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Not much of a post PPV bump, but better than nothing I guess.


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Smackdown def as a good steady rating. Not bad at all. WM season smackdown ratings should be interesting


----------



## DemonKane_Legend

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

This week Jericho was in the main event of Raw and ratings went down. Kane was in the main event of Smackdown and ratings went up. That's a fact.


----------



## Second Nature

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



DemonKane_Legend said:


> This week Jericho was in the main event of Raw and ratings went down. Kane was in the main event of Smackdown and ratings went up. That's a fact.


LOL I'm dying you think Kane is a draw in 2016? the rating went up because of the PPV boost nothing else.


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

That's pretty damn solid.

Increase on last week and gaining on Raw in the ratings. I think they definitely need to get some other intriguing storylines going though - the only one I can think of that's AWAY from any title feuds is Usos vs. American Alpha. The more people in feuds, the better. The more people who are over, the more money you will make and the more viewers you will get. Smackdown is doing just fine.


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

JAMES ELLSWORTH = RATINGS


----------



## FROSTY

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



DoubtGin said:


> JAMES ELLSWORTH = RATINGS


*Quick John Cena vs James Ellsworth for this years Smackdown Wrestlemania main event!*


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 10/11 did 2,448,000 viewers, getting a bump from coming off the PPV and being up six percent from the prior week even with the baseball playoff competition (which did 6,368,000 viewers against hour two).
> 
> Smackdown was sixth for the night on cable.
> 
> In a big surprise, while the show did 62.2 percent amles in 18-49, up from usual, in the 12-17, it was only 50.2 percent male, so there was a huge increase in teenage women viewers. Teenage girl viewers were up 33.3% from last week, and that’s not a PPV bump. Teenage boys were down 31.6 percent from last week.
> 
> Overall, 12-17 did a 0.62 (down 3.1 percent), 18-34 did a 0.60 (down 6.3 percent), 35-49 did a 0.98 (up 25.6 percent, which is the PPV bump audience) and 50+ did 0.99 (up 8.8 percent).


----------



## DammitChrist

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

^ maybe younger women like watching the color blue


----------



## Cipher

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I dunno why WWE is trying so hard to get women to watch. 

It's making the male viewership fly away in droves...you know, the one that has always mattered.


----------



## Xander45

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The show featuring Nikki Bella and Daniel Bryan gets a boost in the number of teenage girls watching the week after Total Bellas start up.

I think that could be your reason right there


----------



## Darren Criss

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

:cheer


----------



## curotenten

*Smackdown draws the lowest attendance to a live show since the brandsplit!*

*- Multiple correspondents at tonight's tapings noted to us that several sections of the Pepsi Center were tarped off and that the arena attendance was severely low. One correspondent noted that he had attended many of the tapings with low attendance before, but this was the lowest amount of people he'd ever seen for a Smackdown show. 

It is worth noting that WWE hosted RAW in the same venue last night and that this may have hurt attendance. *

Below are some crowd shots from tonight:


----------



## JDP2016

*Re: Smackdown draws the lowest attendance to a live show since the brandsplit!*

But...but... Smackdown is better!!!!!!!!

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ace

*Re: Smackdown draws the lowest attendance to a live show since the brandsplit!*

Holy shit is that embarrassing.

This is what you get for crap ass booking.

Goldberg looked like the biggest star on the roster and he's damn 50.

Learn how to create some damn stars you fuckwits.


----------



## Godway

*Re: Smackdown draws the lowest attendance to a live show since the brandsplit!*

You mean the show main evented by James Ellsworth wasn't a sellout!!!?


----------



## Ace

*Re: Smackdown draws the lowest attendance to a live show since the brandsplit!*



Godway said:


> You mean the show main evented by James Ellsworth wasn't a sellout!!!?


 Seriously, Goldberg really did crap over the rest of the roster.

All of them are geeks who have had to look like morons one time or another.


----------



## Cipher

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2016/1018/618568/randy-orton-wrestles-after-smackdown/

Holy shit, this attendance is like 2001 Nitro levels. Notice that one picture is taken during Swagger's entrance so this is during the show.

Edit: Just saw it was posted. Still...I will have my revenge for WCW. 

Soon.


----------



## Headliner

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It's not the show's fault. It's WWE's fault for booking the same venue two nights in a row. People don't have money like that. If they went to Raw, they probably were not going to Smackdown. Normally Raw and SD are not in the same city. They are in nearby cities.


----------



## Asuka842

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Headliner said:


> It's not the show's fault. It's WWE's fault for booking the same venue two nights in a row. People don't have money like that. If they went to Raw, they probably were not going to Smackdown. Normally Raw and SD are not in the same city. They are in nearby cities.


Well there you go applying logic and reason to the discussion, but we cannot have that. This is a fan forum, we must instead bemoan that the sky is falling and oh how terrible everything is. It's, just what we do.


----------



## Sincere

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Headliner said:


> It's not the show's fault. It's WWE's fault for booking the same venue two nights in a row. People don't have money like that. If they went to Raw, they probably were not going to Smackdown. Normally Raw and SD are not in the same city. They are in nearby cities.


It's not just the same venue two nights in a row, either... they put SD up against Goldberg's Raw appearance at the same venue the previous night. :lmao

Thus, SD booked their show accordingly. The subsequent low attendance is entirely predictable. WWE obviously should have had SD somewhere else, but I guess they weren't too concerned about the hit. :shrug

This won't stop people here from devolving into hysterics, however.


----------



## Godway

*Re: Smackdown draws the lowest attendance to a live show since the brandsplit!*



Straw Hat said:


> Seriously, Goldberg really did crap over the rest of the roster.
> 
> All of them are geeks who have had to look like morons one time or another.


It ain't Goldberg's fault. SD isn't drawing well to begin with because it's SD. RAW isn't drawing well either. 

But you have a local jobber run a two week long story arc where he beats the WWE Champion, then main events the show against him, and you wonder why you have your lowest attendance. LOOK AT ELLSWORTH. Like yeah...it's a fucking internet meme LOL SO FUNNY. Internet memes don't fill arenas. We keep comparing WWE to WCW, but right now they're acting like Dixie Carter and Vince Russo, reading the internet every day and booking their shows based off what gifs are currently hot on internet forums. Yeahhhhh, we'll work those smarks now!!

It's pathetic. No one's ever going to pay money to attend a show featuring James Ellsworth, sorry.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Headliner said:


> It's not the show's fault. It's WWE's fault for booking the same venue two nights in a row. People don't have money like that. If they went to Raw, they probably were not going to Smackdown. Normally Raw and SD are not in the same city. They are in nearby cities.


Yeah, I didn't even notice it was the same venue. That's just crazy to expect the same audience to return. I know they do it for SummerSlam but that's a special event in a huge market. Denver isn't a small city by any means, but it isn't LA or New York and it isn't a weekend, it's a Monday and a Tuesday.


----------



## KO Bossy

*Re: Smackdown draws the lowest attendance to a live show since the brandsplit!*



Godway said:


> You mean the show main evented by James Ellsworth wasn't a sellout!!!?


Dude, Ellsworth's twitter is @ realellsworth.


Because...you know...someone so incredibly weak looking and pathetic, there are bound to be TONS of people online trying to pose as such a huge star. We wouldn't want to get them confused, now would we?

Oh that's right, nobody in their right mind would want to try and fake being him. I'll bet even James Ellsworth doesn't want to be James Ellsworth.


----------



## Cipher

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Ah, I didn't know it was the same venue.


----------



## Asuka842

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Mifune Jackson said:


> Yeah, I didn't even notice it was the same venue. That's just crazy to expect the same audience to return. I know they do it for SummerSlam but that's a special event in a huge market. Denver isn't a small city by any means, but it isn't LA or New York and it isn't a weekend, it's a Monday and a Tuesday.


Honestly I think that even if it'd been in NYC, or LA, or Chicago, etc they'd still have had a problem. As you said, this isn't the weekend, it's Monday and Tuesday nights. And tickets to shows in cities of that size tend to not be cheap, at least from my own experience.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

To be fair to WWE, they probably knew they were taking a hit and saved a lot of money with the ring crew by not doing an extra day of setting up the entire arena, just switching the Raw and SD setups and putting the tarps over sections.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*SDL viewership & demo ( 10/18/16 Vs 10/11/16 ):
2.405M Vs 2.448M ( - 0.043M / - 1.76% )
0.81D Vs 0.79D

SDL Vs RAW: 
2.405M Vs 3.130M ( - 0.725M / 76.84% )

Note: SDL is #2 by demo & #6 by viewership.*










*Y-Y viewership & demo ( 10/18/16 Vs 10/22/15 ):
2.405M Vs 2.204M ( + 0.201M / + 9.12% )
0.81D Vs 0.58D

Y-Y SDL Vs RAW:
2.204M Vs 3.357M ( - 1.153M / 65.65% )

Note: SDL this week last year was #4 by demo & #7 by viewership.*


----------



## SilvasBrokenLeg

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Raped by RAW this week.


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



SilvasBrokenLeg said:


> Raped by RAW Goldberg this week.


fixed


----------



## Second Nature

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Disappointing rating but hey at least its consistent.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Not much decline. Did have its worst retention rate of RAW with 76%. Most likely the ephemeral impact of Goldberg. Very stable rating for SDL.


----------



## volde

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Second Nature said:


> Disappointing rating but hey at least its consistent.


Nothing really changed in last few weeks. Feuds are continuing, for the most part, as expected so I guess consistent rating in such circumstances isn't bad news?


----------



## Sincere

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SD main evented Ellsworth and still held fairly consistent. Raw had to close the show with Goldberg to get back to its 3s. :shrug


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Not too surprised it's down on last week but it was a solid show. They're still remaining consistent. I think Goldberg was a BIG plus for Raw, I still personally would have had a big shock and had Bryan and Shane announce that Goldberg has actually signed a contract with Smackdown. You know my thoughts on the Survivor Series match and how both he and Lesnar should have just spearheaded their respective teams and then they both have a big INTER-BRAND match at Royal Rumble. Brock vs. Goldberg II

I think that would have been a great way too BUMP Smackdown to the next level this week - will be interesting to see the numbers for next week. Raw won't have Goldberg, but they HAVE announced Lesnar (who doesn't tend to do anything for ratings) and Smackdown have announced a main event arguably involving their best stars in Styles and Ambrose.


----------



## Darren Criss

Erik. said:


> Not too surprised it's down on last week but it was a solid show. They're still remaining consistent. I think Goldberg was a BIG plus for Raw, I still personally would have had a big shock and had Bryan and Shane announce that Goldberg has actually signed a contract with Smackdown. You know my thoughts on the Survivor Series match and how both he and Lesnar should have just spearheaded their respective teams and then they both have a big INTER-BRAND match at Royal Rumble. Brock vs. Goldberg II
> 
> I think that would have been a great way too BUMP Smackdown to the next level this week - will be interesting to see the numbers for next week. Raw won't have Goldberg, but they HAVE announced Lesnar (who doesn't tend to do anything for ratings) and Smackdown have announced a main event arguably involving their best stars in Styles and Ambrose.


Oh no, Interbrand feud again? Orton vs Lesnar wasn't bad enough for you?


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Darren Criss said:


> Oh no, Interbrand feud again? Orton vs Lesnar wasn't bad enough for you?


I don't see the issue when it comes to part timers like Lesnar, especially if it's a big marquee match like Lesnar and Goldberg. I'd have liked the idea of Lesnar being Raw's main guy in the Survivor Series tag match and Goldberg being Smackdown's main guy - that is where their feud develops, perhaps double DQ or double count out to prevent them from being pinned by anyone, leading to that big Royal Rumble match.


----------



## validreasoning

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Second Nature said:


> Disappointing rating but hey at least its consistent.


Viewership is up 9% and 18-49 demo up a nearly 40% from same week a year ago..a bit of perspective

No show on tv (be it network or cable) is growing right now, in fact many are down double digits from same period in 2015 so for sd to be up from last year is bucking the trend across the board


----------



## Randy Lahey

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



validreasoning said:


> Viewership is up 9% and 18-49 demo up a nearly 40% from same week a year ago..a bit of perspective
> 
> No show on tv (be it network or cable) is growing right now, in fact many are down double digits from same period in 2015 so for sd to be up from last year is bucking the trend across the board


I don't think you can compare Smackdown now, to Smackdown last year. It's a different show/timeslot/network:

Taped vs Live
SciFy vs USA
Thursdays vs NFL. Tuesdays vs nothing.

This is a completely manipulated 9% increase.


----------



## validreasoning

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Randy Lahey said:


> I don't think you can compare Smackdown now, to Smackdown last year. It's a different show/timeslot/network:
> 
> Taped vs Live
> SciFy vs USA
> Thursdays vs NFL. Tuesdays vs nothing.
> 
> This is a completely manipulated 9% increase.


Live means very little these days..tna live and taped sees barely any difference in fact viewership has fallen for live episodes sometimes same with bellator. Olympic live events in 2016 were well down compared to 2012 which aired on tape delay

USA is in same number of homes as sci-fi..do you think if nbc moved say zombie nation to usa tomorrow the 18-49 demo would increase 40%!!!

They had a cubs (chasing history) game opposite so to suggest no competition is wrong. Network competition is stronger on Tuesdays than Thursdays anyway

Next week is game 1 of world series and two weeks later is election night so this might be best sd number for a while


----------



## volde

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Do casual viewers even know if something is live or not?


----------



## AlternateDemise

*Re: Smackdown draws the lowest attendance to a live show since the brandsplit!*



JDP2016 said:


> But...but... Smackdown is better!!!!!!!!
> 
> Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


Oh look, another stupid post from you. Bravo.


----------



## zigglerscesaro

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Smackdown is good but it still makes me feel underwhelmed. Like it's good but I'm not excited for Smackdown. TBH I forget it's on a lot of the time. Which is a step up because it's been bad since the end of 2013-2014 but still not good.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*SDL viewership & demo ( 10/25/16 Vs 10/18/16 ):
2.127M Vs 2.405M ( - 0.278M / - 11.56% )
0.690D Vs 0.810D

SDL Vs RAW: 
2.127M Vs 2.819M ( - 0.692M / 75.45% )
0.690D Vs 1.007D

Note: 
SDL is 4th by demo & 8th by viewership.
SDL has the lowest post draft viewership and a lower post draft Y-Y viewership for the 1st time.*










*Y-Y viewership & demo ( 10/25/16 Vs 10/29/15 ):
2.127M Vs 2.171M ( - 0.044M / - 2.04% )
0.690D Vs 0.570D

SDL Vs RAW ( Y-Y ):
2.171M Vs 3.354M ( - 1.183M / 64.73% )
0.570D Vs 1.183D

Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 5th by viewership.*


----------



## SilvasBrokenLeg

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

2.127M

lol

Worse than this time last year when the show wasn't live and several of the top guys weren't exclusive to the show.

What an enormous disaster.


----------



## Kabraxal

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



SilvasBrokenLeg said:


> 2.127M
> 
> lol
> 
> Worse than this time last year when the show wasn't live and several of the top guys weren't exclusive to the show.
> 
> What an enormous disaster.


I'm guessing you are just willfully ignorant of what was on last night....... you know, a historic game 1 of the World series. That it remained above 2 million is actually amazing.


----------



## SilvasBrokenLeg

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Kabraxal said:


> I'm guessing you are just willfully ignorant of what was on last night....... you know, a historic game 1 of the World series. That it remained above 2 million is actually amazing.


I know you love to defend the show to no end, but the ratings have been trending towards pre-draft levels for a while now. I'm sure you had no problem shitting on RAW when it competed against the NFL and the debate. I shit on it too - but at least I'm consistent.

Embarrassing numbers.


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Just wait for the 8th Nov show. Taped and during election day...its going to be a slaughter.


----------



## Kabraxal

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



SilvasBrokenLeg said:


> I know you love to defend the show to no end, but the ratings have been trending towards pre-draft levels for a while now. I'm sure you had no problem shitting on RAW when it competed against the NFL and the debate. I shit on it too - but at least I'm consistent.
> 
> Embarrassing numbers.


"Let's ignore a huge event just so I can make terrible posts".... at least you are right, you are consistent.

I mean, if you were actually paying attention you would realise I slaughtered last week's awful SDL. O right, that requires paying attention again. Can't have that.


----------



## Kabraxal

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

DELETE: Ipad on the fritz...


----------



## SilvasBrokenLeg

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Kabraxal said:


> "Let's ignore a huge event just so I can make terrible posts".... at least you are right, you are consistent.
> 
> I mean, if you were actually paying attention you would realise I slaughtered last week's awful SDL. O right, that requires paying attention again. Can't have that.


Who's ignoring a huge event, kiddo? I said before the show ever aired that it would get killed because of its competition. That's not going to take away from the fact that these numbers, which have been decreasing for months, are horrendous. You crying because your favorite fake fighting show drew laughable numbers won't change that either.


----------



## Kabraxal

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



SilvasBrokenLeg said:


> Who's ignoring a huge event, kiddo? I said before the show ever aired that it would get killed because of its competition. That's not going to take away from the fact that these numbers, which have been decreasing for months, are horrendous. You crying because your favorite fake fighting show drew laughable numbers won't change that either.


It lost 300 thousand against the WS and the NBA plus normal network competition.... yeah, that is so embarassing and your point is totally not laughable still. 

Fake fighting? SDL isnt my favourite WRESTLING show anyway, but that remark just proves you are one of those MMA marks that think just infantile respsonses is cute and funny. Sorry, it's just pathetic.


----------



## Vårmakos

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Vårmakos said:


> Dean main evented 5 of the 6 lowest drawing house shows in 2016... :kermit


And now the lowest SDL rating.. :kermit


----------



## SilvasBrokenLeg

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Kabraxal said:


> It lost 300 thousand against the WS and the NBA plus normal network competition.... yeah, that is so embarassing and your point is totally not laughable still.
> 
> Fake fighting? SDL isnt my favourite WRESTLING show anyway, but that remark just proves you are one of those MMA marks that think just infantile respsonses is cute and funny. Sorry, it's just pathetic.


It decreased nearly 12% from last week. RAW decreased only 8% going up against the debate, which drew about 80 million people across all channels that aired it.

SDL has reached pre-draft SD levels, and RAW is now getting mid to high 2 million. To claim that this has been anything other than complete and utter failure for both shows is absurd.


----------



## JDP2016

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Reotor said:


> Just wait for the 8th Nov show. Taped and during election day...its going to be a slaughter.


Are you kidding me? Becky and Alexa are gonna draw huge numbers that night. It's gonna be like Hulk Hogan v. The Ultimate Warrior at Wrestlemania 6.



Kabraxal said:


> I'm guessing you are just willfully ignorant of what was on last night....... you know, a historic game 1 of the World series. That it remained above 2 million is actually amazing.





Kabraxal said:


> "Let's ignore a huge event just so I can make terrible posts".... at least you are right, you are consistent.
> 
> I mean, if you were actually paying attention you would realise I slaughtered last week's awful SDL. O right, that requires paying attention again. Can't have that.



So when RAW draws a low number we can't use the NFL or a presidential debate but when SDL draws a low number then it's "ohh game 1 of the world series was on" or "oh look the NBA season began last night".


----------



## Kabraxal

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



SilvasBrokenLeg said:


> It decreased nearly 12% from last week. RAW decreased only 8% going up against the debate, which drew about 80 million people across all channels that aired it.
> 
> SDL has reached pre-draft SD levels, and RAW is now getting mid to high 2 million. To claim that this has been anything other than complete and utter failure for both shows is absurd.


Take out Raw's first unopposed hour and suddenly that rating drop is worse... o but right, we have to ignore facts here. The World Series started at the SAME EXACT TIME and ran the entire show. The NBA opening ran during the show. And yet it still only dropped 300,000 viewers AND stayed above 2 million. Everyone was expecting sub 2 million but here you are screaming at the internet that a lesser than expected drop is actually embarassing....


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

That's a real poor rating and quite the drop - I thought the show as pretty good though, it furthered storylines and gave us a great TV main event in Ambrose/Styles who have great chemistry together. I'm not a big basketball fan and it's no where near as big over in the United Kingdom as it obviously is in the States so I'll take most of your words for it that the opening night of the NBA was always going to be more watched and a detriment to the Smackdown ratings.

We will see how the ratings do next week.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Not a good number, but should've been worse given the competition.


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Was expecting worse with the Cubs in the World Series opener and opening night of the NBA.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

75% retention rate of RAW is the lowest since the brand split. It's still a relatively good number but SDL does suffer being the fourth and fifth hour of WWE and the competition was even stiffer than usual. Not a good trajectory for SDL ratings, to be sure. See if they can "hulk up" in the upcoming weeks.


----------



## Randy Lahey

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Kabraxal said:


> I'm guessing you are just willfully ignorant of what was on last night....... you know, a historic game 1 of the World series. That it remained above 2 million is actually amazing.


Smackdown went against the NFL last year. That rating is shit.


----------



## Darren Criss

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I was waiting for something less than 2.0 tbh


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown, even with an A.J. Styles vs. Dean Ambrose non-title match advertised for a week, on 10/25, going against Game One of the World Series, got hit hard doing 2,127,000 viewers, down 12 percent from the prior week.
> 
> The drop was easily explainable as Game One between the Chicago Cubs and Cleveland Indians did 19,368,000 viewers. There was also a Cleveland Cavaliers vs. New York Knicks game on TNT that did 2,867,000 viewers head-to-head.
> 
> Smackdown was in eighth place for the night on cable.
> 
> The show did a 0.51 in 12-17 (down 10.5 percent), 0.59 in 18-34 (down 25.3 percent from last week although that’s misleading because that demo was way up last week as it was the only demo the James Ellsworth thing worked with), 0.79 in 35-49 (down 12.2 percent) and 0.87 in 50+ down 6.5 percent).
> 
> The audience was 56.1 percent male in 18-49 and 59.3 percent males in 12-17.


----------



## The RainMaker

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



JDP2016 said:


> Are you kidding me? Becky and Alexa are gonna draw huge numbers that night. It's gonna be like Hulk Hogan v. The Ultimate Warrior at Wrestlemania 6.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So when RAW draws a low number we can't use the NFL or a presidential debate but when SDL draws a low number then it's "ohh game 1 of the world series was on" or "oh look the NBA season began last night".


That's how it works on this forum, yes. SD can do no wrong.


----------



## skarvika

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Vårmakos said:


> And now the lowest SDL rating.. :kermit


Dean working those TV execs:ambrose
Ellsworth draws more than Deanetty:heston


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 11/1/16 Vs 10/25/16 ):
2.187M Vs 2.127M ( + 0.060M / + 2.82% )
0.670D Vs 0.690D

SDL Vs RAW: 
2.187M Vs 2.600M ( - 0.413M / 84.12% )
0.670D Vs 0.900D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 8th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 11/1/16 Vs 11/5/15 ):
2.187M Vs 2.123M ( + 0.064M / + 3.01% )
0.670D Vs 0.570D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.123M Vs 3.248M ( - 1.125M / 65.36% )
0.570D Vs 1.113D

Note: SDL this week last year was 7th by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Pretty low numbers again, at least it slightly increased from last week I guess.

They were doing those numbers before the split happened, though, so not sure if they should be happy with that.


----------



## Kabraxal

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

A slight, slight, slight increase despite Game 6 killing in the ratings last night... next week will probably see a fairly sizeable spike as Chicago and Cleveland fans switch back over to watching SDL live (or at all).


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Back to 85% of RAW again, things are normal.
Next week will probably be very rough, election day + taped show


----------



## Kabraxal

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Reotor said:


> Back to 85% of RAW again, things are normal.
> Next week will probably be very rough, election day + taped show


Forgot it was taped... though I'll still watch SD taped over this abomination of an election.


----------



## Randy Lahey

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Next week will def be under 2mils. Then the following week we'll see how many people come back, or if it's the start of Smackdown returning to the level they were at before the switch to Live/USA/Tuesday.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Raw retention rate rebounded which is positive. Cubs are drawing massive ratings but SDL managed to survive. I still doubt that SDL ever exceeds RAW ratings wise, but it's still the more satisfying watch.


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Increase is always good news.


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 11/1 did 2,187,000 viewers, once again taking a hit from the World Series. The 11/8 Smackdown show, going against the coverage of the Presidential election, should do the lowest number in years, and the hope is to turn things around on 11/15 with them promoting the show as the 900th episode and bringing back The Undertaker.
> 
> The World Series drew 23,396,000, as compared to 19,368,000 for Game One. But Smackdown was up 60,000 viewers against a more-watched game, so that would be considered a positive. Smackdown was eighth for the night on cable, trailing news shows.
> 
> The show did a 0.49 in 12-17 (down 3.9 percent from last week), 0.57 in 18-34 (down 3.4 percent), 0.77 in 35-49 (down 2.5 percent) and a 0.96 in 50+ (up 10.3 percent).
> 
> The show drew 57.8 percent males in 18-49 and 60.2 percent males in 12-17.


----------



## Mra22

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Reotor said:


> Back to 85% of RAW again, things are normal.
> Next week will probably be very rough, election day + taped show


SD is taped next week? Also the numbers will probably be very low with it being election night


----------



## Xander45

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Mra22 said:


> SD is taped next week? Also the numbers will probably be very low with it being election night


Both Raw and Smackdown are taped because they're over here in the UK.


----------



## Mra22

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Xander45 said:


> Both Raw and Smackdown are taped because they're over here in the UK.


Oh ok, both shows will more than likely have awful ratings. Kind of hope there is a satellite hack like last time so I can watch it early


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 11/8/16 Vs 11/1/16 ):
1.921M Vs 2.187M ( - 0.266M / - 12.16% )
0.560D Vs 0.670D

SDL Vs RAW: 
1.921M Vs 2.797M ( - 0.876M / 68.68% )
0.560D Vs 0.940D

Note: SDL is 29th by demo & 41st by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 11/8/16 Vs 11/12/15 ):
1.921M Vs 2.294M ( - 0.373M / - 16.26% )
0.560D Vs 0.630D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.294M Vs 3.173M ( - 0.879M / 72.30% )
0.630D Vs 1.110D

Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 4th by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Thought it would be much worse.


----------



## Zigglerpops

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Actually surprised it's so high with the competition it had and with it been taped, I did not watch it last night, I only got around to it today


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Smackdown was the highest rated program that was not related to the election. Extremely impressive, considering the circumstances.


----------



## Zigglerpops

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

With Edge and Undertaker advertised for next week, Could it beat RAW in the ratings?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Zigglerpops said:


> With Edge and Undertaker advertised for next week, Could it beat RAW in the ratings?


I don't think so. Raw is stacked next week as well.


----------



## Zigglerpops

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



#BadNewsSanta said:


> I don't think so. Raw is stacked next week as well.


Average RAW gets now is 2.8m over 3hrs, A 2 hour SD with Taker & Edge could get pretty close with very little competition, I still think RAW will win, Im thinking 2.5m for SD, If they get more than their premier show they could come close to beaten RAW


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Nice numbers. There had to have been 45 to 50 million people watching the news networks last night. Maybe more? 

Crazy to even be near a 2.0.


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> As expected, Smackdown on 11/8 did its lowest number since the move to the USA Network with 1,921,000 viewers. Given it went against election coverage, I’d consider that number a major success because essentially it tells you about 80 percent of the usual Tuesday audience is so loyal that they won’t miss the show.
> 
> The show finished 41st on cable, which is not a misprint,.as basically everything, all day, on CNN, Fox News and MSNBC beat it. But it was the No. 1 non-news show on cable, which also isn’t that big a deal because nobody else programmed anything that would do any numbers last night.
> 
> It was down 12 percent overall from the 11/1 show against the World Series.
> 
> The show did an 0.45 in 12-17 (down 8.2 percent from the show against the World Series), 0.49 in 18-34 (down 14.0 percent), 0.63 in 35-49 (down 18.2 percent) and 0.85 in 50+ (down 11.1 percent).
> 
> The show was 57.5 percent male in 18-49 and 66.7 percent male in 12-17.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The Election buried SDL but that was to be expected. Hopefully it fully rebounds next week.


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



THE MAN said:


> The Election buried SDL but that was to be expected. Hopefully it fully rebounds next week.


The election buried literally everything. Some things are just impossible to compete with.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 11/15/16 Vs 11/8/16 ):
2.725M Vs 1.921M ( + 0.804M / + 41.85% )
0.950D Vs 0.560D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.725M Vs 2.878M ( - 0.153M / 94.68% )
0.950D Vs 0.950D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 11/15/16 Vs 11/19/15 ):
2.725M Vs 2.229M ( + 0.496M / + 22.25% )
0.950D Vs 0.610D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.229M Vs 3.293M ( - 1.064M / 67.69% )
0.610D Vs 1.123D

Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 4th by viewership.*


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Great rating this week. It was a really good show so hopefully they will retain some of those viewers going forward.


----------



## SilvasBrokenLeg

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

This RAW vs SD feud is actually drawing. Hell, it was the first time I watched either show live in a couple of months.

I'm sure the fact that it was SD's 900th episode and that Taker and Edge made appearances helped as well.


----------



## Swissblade

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Up 800,000 viewers from last week. Damn. Only about 100,000 viewers behind Raw.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Great numbers for SD.


----------



## GRAPHICAL GHOST

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

>undertaker is not a draw
lol


----------



## Mra22

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Great numbers for SD. The deadman is still a draw as well as Edge


----------



## DammitChrist

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Great news for the blue brand!


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> The combination of the return of The Undertaker and the promotion of the 900th episode of Smackdown for 11/15 saw the show beat many of Raw’s fall numbers and come close to this week’s total.
> 
> After hitting a low mark last week against the election, Smackdown did 2,725,000 viewers, a whopping 41.9 percent increase from the previous week. It was the largest audience for the show since the 8/30 episode.
> 
> Smackdown was seventh for the night on cable, trailing only Fox News programming.
> 
> The show did a 0.73 in 12-17 (up 62.2 percent), 0.83 in 18-34 (up 69.4 percent), 1.07 in 35-49 (up 69.8 percent) and 1.05 in 50+ (up 23.5 percent).
> 
> The audience was 60.5 percent male in 18-49 and 66.7 percent male in 12-17. Overall males 18-49 increased 78.5 percent, which is almost an amazing increase


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

No surprise there, rebound from election night + Undertaker and Edge.
Im far more intrested if they can keep this up and get a post PPV bump next week. (i doubt it)


----------



## Lothario

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Further reinforces the fact we have no draws outside of relics from the past. Taker, Goldberg (and to a lesser extent, Edge) should be receiving a stocking stuffer from McMahon ahead of Christmas. Great numbers but unless something drastic happens with these rosters, these people are on borrowed time.


----------



## Y.2.J

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It's crazy how much of a draw the Undertaker is. Edge too, but more so the Undertaker. It was good seeing King Booker as well. 

It was a great show, hopefully Smackdown can keep the majority of those viewers tuning in going forward. The show was mixed with nostalgia and promise of the next generation of superstars. Great stuff.


----------



## validreasoning

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Lothario said:


> Further reinforces the fact we have no draws outside of relics from the past. Taker, Goldberg (and to a lesser extent, Edge) should be receiving a stocking stuffer from McMahon ahead of Christmas. Great numbers but unless something drastic happens with these rosters, these people are on borrowed time.





Avada Kedavra said:


> It's crazy how much of a draw the Undertaker is. Edge too, but more so the Undertaker. It was good seeing King Booker as well.
> 
> It was a great show, hopefully Smackdown can keep the majority of those viewers tuning in going forward. The show was mixed with nostalgia and promise of the next generation of superstars. Great stuff.


Fans today are drawn to big advertised returns..if wwe start advertising cenas return for weeks it will likely pop a number

Goldbergs effect was gone after a week (at least regarding tv across 3 hours) undertaker if he was there every week appearing in multiple segments a night would render him just another guy after less than a month


Its weird fans today are drawn to stuff they think might happen instead of what they are told will happen. When Miz and Bryan went at it in talking smack the following sd drew almost 2.9 million..yet when WWE advertise big title matches in advance its rare those draw extra viewers


----------



## Godway

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



validreasoning said:


> When Miz and Bryan went at it in talking smack the following sd drew almost 2.9 million..yet when WWE advertise big title matches in advance its rare those draw extra viewers


Wrestling is overexposed. Title matches on TV happen like every other month these days. Or even every month, depending on the title. Actual HEATED segments where two stars sound like they're really going at it and make suspend your disbelief? THAT is a rarity nowadays, so that is why Miz/Bryan drew viewers. Probably also why they had Ambrose/Cena try borderline shooting on each other during that feud, too.


----------



## Lothario

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



validreasoning said:


> *Fans today are drawn to big advertised returns..if wwe start advertising cenas return for weeks it will likely pop a number*
> 
> Goldbergs effect was gone after a week (at least regarding tv across 3 hours) undertaker if he was there every week appearing in multiple segments a night would render him just another guy after less than a month
> 
> 
> Its weird fans today are drawn to stuff they think might happen instead of what they are told will happen. When Miz and Bryan went at it in talking smack the following sd drew almost 2.9 million..yet when WWE advertise big title matches in advance its rare those draw extra viewers


They did just that with one of Cena's recent returns. It didn't work.


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Superb numbers.

Can't believe how close they are to Raw, is this the closest they've been to Raw since the split!? Will be interesting to see if they keep this up and maintain it - if Smackdown do go ahead and beat Raw at Survivor Series or The UnderTaker does something to further a storyline, will be interesting to see how fans will react and see if they gain any viewers.


----------



## validreasoning

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Lothario said:


> They did just that with one of Cena's recent returns. It didn't work.


The one on memorial day?

If so that was expected to fall.significantly as all holiday shows do yet stayed roughly the same as previous week so clearly his return helped as without it viewership would have dropped 10-20%



Godway said:


> Wrestling is overexposed. Title matches on TV happen like every other month these days. Or even every month, depending on the title. Actual HEATED segments where two stars sound like they're really going at it and make suspend your disbelief? THAT is a rarity nowadays, so that is why Miz/Bryan drew viewers. Probably also why they had Ambrose/Cena try borderline shooting on each other during that feud, too.


Title matches are quite rare on tv in recent years compared to say any other time over past 20 years. There was period there where WWE title hadn't been defended on tv for nearly 3 years (Jan 2013 until September 2015)

While the Ambrose and cena thing was good tv it didn't draw interest


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

95% RAW retention rate. Excellent outing for SDL. I suspect this will be the high water mark, but we'll see.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 11/22/16 Vs 11/15/16 ):
2.505M Vs 2.725M ( - 0.220M / - 8.07% )
0.810D Vs 0.950D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.505M Vs 3.002M ( - 0.497M / 83.44% )
0.810D Vs 1.100D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 11/22/16 Vs 11/26/15 ):
2.505M Vs 1.652M ( + 0.853M / + 51.63% )
0.810D Vs 0.460D

SDL Vs RAW:
1.652M Vs 2.964M ( - 1.312M / 55.74% )
0.460D Vs 0.993D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 2nd by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I wonder how many of those 2.5 million will be back next week..


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Pretty strong hold coming off of an Undertaker return and SvS. After a less than stellar episode, though, expect that to drop next week.


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Pretty good number considering the 200,000 probably turned in for the likes of Edge and Undertaker last week as well them hyping up the 900th episode. Will be interesting to see the number next week. I think they're doing very well considering.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Eh, disappointing coming off a big ppv, but not surprising. SD has been sucking wind for about a month now. This title feud situation isn't likely gonna help things any time soon.


----------



## Y.2.J

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

So Smackdown are reaching approximately 1 million more viewers with moving to tuesdays and going live than compared to last year? I would think that the WWE *has* to be happy with those numbers.

And did I read that right? Raw averaged 2.96 million viewers this week last year? 

So last year = 1.652 (SD) + 2.964 (Raw) = 4.616 million viewers
This year = 2.505 (SD) + 3.002 (Raw) = 5.507 million viewers

So if I'm reading that right, both shows are up in ratings compared to last year, almost 1 million more viewers, and network subscriptions are up. So why is the WWE dying again?


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 11/22 was down from the previous week with Undertaker, but still was well above the fall average with 2,505,000 viewers, putting it in seventh place for the night.
> 
> The show did a 0.60 in 12-17 (down 17.8 percent from last week), 0.74 in 18-34 (down 10.8 percent), 0.88 in 35-49 (down 17.8 percent) and 1.01 in 50+ down 3.8 percent). But all of those demos except 50+ were up 60 percent or more last week from the 11/8 show.
> 
> The audience was 58.6 percent male in 18-49 and 57.0 percent male in 12-17. So the big male increase from last week was way down.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 11/29/16 Vs 11/22/16 ):
2.576M Vs 2.505M ( + 0.071M / + 2.83% )
0.790D Vs 0.810D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.576M Vs 3.111M ( - 0.535M / 82.80% )
0.790D Vs 1.083D

Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 11/29/16 Vs 12/3/15 ):
2.576M Vs 2.044M ( + 0.532M / + 26.03% )
0.790D Vs 0.570D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.044M Vs 3.168M ( - 1.124M / 64.52% )
0.570D Vs 1.040D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 13th by viewership.*


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Yet another strong hold. Anything above a 2.5 has to be seen as a success for Smackdown.


----------



## Icecube225

Thought it would be down after last weeks terrible episode.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*That's a nice little increase. I always love when they open the show with Alexa.*


----------



## A-C-P

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SDL ratings holding steady :bjpenn


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Good numbers, hopefully they get it close to 3m by WM season.


----------



## The Figure 4

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 11/29 remained above its fall average with 2,576,000 viewers, up three percent from a good number the prior week.
> 
> Both Raw and Smackdown this week had increases that were unique, as they were about the same, actually very slightly down, with the younger audience, but had strong increases with viewers over the age of 50.
> 
> Smackdown was ninth for the night on cable and was well ahead of the 1,651,000 viewers of the Michigan State vs. Duke college basketball game on ESPN.
> 
> The show did a 0.59 in 12-17 (down 1.7 percent), 0.71 in 18-34 (down 4.1 percent), 0.87 in 35-49 (down 1.1 percent) and 1.10 in 50+ (up 8.9 percent).
> 
> The audience was 61.4 percent male in 18-49 and 68.4 percent male in 12-17, so the male audience was well up when it came to under 50 viewers as well, but the female audience took a big drop under 50.


Edit:



> Notes from the 11/29 TV tapings in Columbia, SC. This was the first taping with the new 205 Live cruiserweight show. That aspect wasn’t a draw at all as they drew 2,500 fans, which is the smallest crowd for a Smackdown taping since the brand split. As far as live drawing goes, Smackdown has taken a real hit since Cena left. Worse, even with telling fans there would be a dark match with Ambrose & Ziggler vs. Styles & Miz to keep them from leaving, and you could still see people walking out in the background during the cruiserweight show, and mostly during the title match. We were told it was even more evident live, and they even kept Styles and Ambrose from wrestling on Smackdown and saved them for the dark match. As noted before, it’s in everyone’s best interest to tape the cruiserweight show first with a fresh crowd.


----------



## Cipher

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Yeesh. Less than 3,000 should be alarming. There are photos with stuff tarped off as well. The already low crowd, coupled with people leaving, I'd guess about 1,000 stayed to watch the Cruiserweights?

Still...I enjoy SD, not as much as everyone else, but if it was so great why isn't it drawing well? It's not been a one off thing either...


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Cipher said:


> Yeesh. Less than 3,000 should be alarming. There are photos with stuff tarped off as well. The already low crowd, coupled with people leaving, I'd guess about 1,000 stayed to watch the Cruiserweights?
> 
> Still...I enjoy SD, not as much as everyone else, but if it was so great why isn't it drawing well? It's not been a one off thing either...


 One corner was tarped off, pretty sure they did a lot more than that for SD, probably around 5,000-6,000.

They usually do more than 2,500 for house shows, it makes little sense for this to be less than a house show.

Edit: nvm they usually draw similar numbers for that venue, so it might be 2,500.

http://www.profightdb.com/locations...arolina/columbia/colonial-life-arena-462.html


----------



## Cipher

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Ace said:


> One corner was tarped off, pretty sure they did a lot more than that for SD, probably around 5,000-6,000.
> 
> They usually do more than 2,500 for house shows, it makes little sense for this to be less than a house show.


I was talking about the post above me. It's 3 AM, I'm more coffee than person at this point, am I reading it wrong? 

"Notes from the 11/29 TV tapings in Columbia, SC. This was the first taping with the new 205 Live cruiserweight show. That aspect wasn’t a draw at all as they drew 2,500 fans, which is the smallest crowd for a Smackdown taping since the brand split."

This, to me, reads that SD drew only 2,500 even though 205Live was debuting.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Cipher said:


> I was talking about the post above me. It's 3 AM, I'm more coffee than person at this point, am I reading it wrong?
> 
> "Notes from the 11/29 TV tapings in Columbia, SC. This was the first taping with the new 205 Live cruiserweight show. That aspect wasn’t a draw at all as they drew 2,500 fans, which is the smallest crowd for a Smackdown taping since the brand split."
> 
> This, to me, reads that SD drew only 2,500 even though 205Live was debuting.


 It isn't clear to me.

I interpreted it as 205 drawing 2,500 fans... but looking at the numbers for the venue, 2,500 is a realistic number.


----------



## Cipher

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Ace said:


> It isn't clear to me.
> 
> I interpreted it as 205 drawing 2,500 fans... but looking at the numbers for the venue, 2,500 is a realistic number.


Yeah, but a good amount of those recorded were house shows minus one SmackDown from 2005 which drew 3,000. There's also a RAW there but the number is unknown. Hell, a house show with Big Show vs Sheamus drew over 4,000 according to that site.

The new live SD that is supposed to be on par with RAW and a new show debuting drawing the the same amount as a house show in 2013 is still bad, despite that being a somewhat regular figure.


----------



## Y.2.J

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

2.576 million, that sounds like a good number to me for just a regular episode of SDLive. I guess it's a go-home show but it's still significantly higher than the average so far. SDLive holding strong numbers & slowly climbing.

Like I've said before - the WWE have higher ratings compared to last year (RAW + SD), WWE Network subscriptions are up compared to last year, social media impressions are through the roof and up compared to last year, WM32 broke records, so tell me how the WWE is dying? Vince is rofl'ing right now.


----------



## Darren Criss

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SmackDown would embarrass Raw if they put a little violence and less "equality" between the wrestlers. None of the champions currently look like champions.


----------



## NeyNey

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Ambrose and Slater in one segment had me like :sodone !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This was for the SD discussion thread, sorry ratings thread lel.


----------



## Cipher

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Good lord
http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news...ing-at-monday-wwe-live-event-in-texas-photos/

(yes I know they've ran shows here for years)


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 12/6/16 Vs 11/29/16 ):
2.479M Vs 2.576M ( - 0.097M / - 3.77% )
0.780D Vs 0.790D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.479M Vs 2.977M ( - 0.498M / 83.27% )
0.780D Vs 0.973D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 12/6/16 Vs 12/10/15 ):
2.479M Vs 2.133M ( + 0.346M / + 16.22% )
0.780D Vs 0.550D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.133M Vs 3.054M ( - 0.921M / 69.84% )
0.570D Vs 1.037D

Note: SDL this week last year was 6th by demo & 7th by viewership.*


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 12/6 was down 3.8 percent from the prior week with 2,479,000 viewers, good for ninth place for the night on cable. So it got no bump from the TLC show.
> 
> The show did a 0.58 in 12-17 (down 1.7 percent from the prior week), 0.66 in 18-34 (down 7.0 percent), 0.90 in 35-49 (up 3.4 percent) and 1.05 in 50+ (identical to the prior week).
> 
> The drop was mainly women, as the male audience was up from recent weeks with 63.1 percent male in 18-34 and 71.7 percent male in 12-17.


----------



## Cipher

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Big Dave said H-Town only drew 5,500 for SmackDown on the WOR and noted it's a great wrestling city. I could have gone myself, but I just didn't feel like forking over the money for this tbh. They were actually giving away a bunch of tickets on the radio too, someone tried to win me some cause they know I'm a wrestling fan.

Yikes.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Fairly stable rating and once again retaining over 80% of RAW's viewers. Seems like the same story most every week.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 12/13/16 Vs 12/6/16 ):
2.361M Vs 2.479M ( - 0.118M / - 4.76% )
0.730D Vs 0.780D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.361M Vs 2.758M ( - 0.397M / 85.61% )
0.730D Vs 0.920D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 12/13/16 Vs 12/17/15 ):
2.361M Vs 2.332M ( + 0.029M / + 1.24% )
0.730D Vs 0.640D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.332M Vs 3.885M ( - 1.553M / 60.03% )
0.640D Vs 1.337D

Note: SDL this week last year was 6th by demo & 7th by viewership.*


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 12/13 did 2,361,000 viewers, down five percent from the prior week for the second show built around A.J. Styles vs. James Ellsworth that didn’t happen.
> 
> Smackdown was eight place for the night on cable.
> 
> The show did a 0.57 in 12-17 (down 1.7 percent from last week), 0.67 in 18-34 (up 1.5 percent), 0.79 in 35-49 (down 12.2 percent) and 1.01 in 50+ (down 3.8 percent).
> 
> The show drew 63.9 percent males in 18-49 and 71.5 percent males in 12-17, so for whatever reason, the show has lost a lot of women viewers over the past few weeks.


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Not far off Raw at all this week but it's a considerable drop overall compared to last week for both Raw and Smackdown. 

Needing something fresh.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Erik. said:


> Not far off Raw at all this week but it's a considerable drop overall compared to last week for both Raw and Smackdown.
> 
> Needing something fresh.


 I think SD would be better off on another day.

2 to 3 consecutive nights of wrestling is too much.


----------



## DemonKane_Legend

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Ratings will keep low until Wrestlemania season starts


----------



## CaptainCharisma20

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



DemonKane_Legend said:


> Ratings will keep low until Wrestlemania season starts


They didn't peak that much during this years Wrestlemania season, a Taker, Edge appearance or when Benjamin returns that'll pop the ratings


----------



## Chrome

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Ace said:


> I think SD would be better off on another day.
> 
> 2 to 3 consecutive nights of wrestling is too much.


Thursdays would be better imo. Schedule would work better too, as Raw superstars could work Fri-Mon and SD superstars can work Thurs-Sun. Having a SD house show going on while Raw is going on at the same time is silly tbh.


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Since it hasn't been posted already.










Last night's WWE SmackDown, featuring Dolph Ziggler vs. Baron Corbin in a #1 contenders main event plus James Ellsworth vs. WWE Champion AJ Styles, drew 2.637 million viewers. This is up 12% from last week's 2.361 million viewers.

SmackDown was #5 for the night on cable in viewership, behind Curse of Oak Island, The O'Reilly Factor, Special Report and The Five. SmackDown was #2 in the 18-49 demographic, behind Curse of Oak Island.
In comparison, Monday's RAW averaged 2.955 million viewers, up from last week's 2.758 million viewers.


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Baron's Belly face is a draw!


----------



## The_Jiz

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

That might be the highest rating in a while. 

The trend of following Raw ratings bumps continues. SDL does poorly when Raw does poorly it seems.


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



> Last night's episode of SmackDown on the USA Network did 2,637,000 viewers, the second best number of the fall TV season. Since September 13th, the only rating to beat it was the 900th episode on November 15th, which featured appearances by The Undertaker and Edge.
> 
> SmackDown was fifth for the night in total cable viewers, trailing three FOX News shows and Curse of Oak Island on the History Channel. The show finished second on the night in the important 18-49 demo, with a 0.88 rating.
> 
> The only big sports competition that it went against was a college football bowl game on ESPN that did 1.581 million viewers. It's also notable that most network programming was repeats, which also would've helped the SmackDown number.
> 
> Next week's show features the return of John Cena. His last return to TV after taking time off led to a sizeable ratings bump.
> 
> Below is a look at SmackDown ratings since the brand split as compared to Raw ratings from the same week. For the most part, SmackDown has finished in the 80-85 percent range of Raw's audience but was up a bit from that this week.


http://www.f4wonline.com/wwe-news/smackdown-does-second-best-rating-fall-tv-season-226921


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 12/20/16 Vs 12/13/16 ):
2.637M Vs 2.361M ( + 0.276M / + 11.69% )
0.880D Vs 0.730D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.637M Vs 2.956M ( - 0.319M / 89.21% )
0.880D Vs 1.043D*

*Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 12/20/16 Vs 12/22/15 ):
2.637M Vs 2.264M ( + 0.373M / + 16.48% )
0.880D Vs 0.710D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.264M Vs 3.377M ( - 1.113M / 67.04% )
0.710D Vs 1.137D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 3rd by viewership.
*


----------



## Dolorian

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Congrats to SD for finally beating RAW on the ratings this week...

*Raw ratings (source)* - Average = 2.856

*SmackDown ratings (source)* - Average = 2.885 million

Let's see if this gives Vince and company the motivation they need to step it up on RAW and move things out of the holding pattern they have been in for several months now.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

On phone right now, but SD viewership is in... and they beat Raw.

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2016/1229/620769/how-was-viewership-for-the-final-wwe-smackdown-of-2016-with-john/

Edit: I mean sure it took John Cena, multiple championship matches, a lot of advertising and a shit Raw main event, but they finally did... it! SD marks unite!

Of course this isn't happening again for a long while.


----------



## A-C-P

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

:suckit Raw


----------



## Y2JHOLLA

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



#BadNewsSanta said:


> On phone right now, but SD viewership is in... and they beat Raw.
> 
> http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2016/1229/620769/how-was-viewership-for-the-final-wwe-smackdown-of-2016-with-john/
> 
> Edit: I mean sure it took John Cena, multiple championship matches, a lot of advertising and a shit Raw main event, but they finally did i! SD marks unite!
> 
> Of course this isn't happening again for a long while.


Holy SHIT!

That's huge.

And based off how awesome Smackdown was this week, these viewers would probably want to stick around.


----------



## Strategize

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Kinda expected higher to be honest with 3 title matches and a Cena return.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Great for SDL. :clap. It should be noted that RAW was still slightly ahead in the demo, but it was heartening to see SDL get rewarded for its far superior episode.


----------



## The Caped Crusader

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Dolorian said:


> Congrats to SD for finally beating RAW on the ratings this week...
> 
> *Raw ratings (source)* - Average = 2.856
> 
> *SmackDown ratings (source)* - Average = 2.885 million
> 
> Let's see if this gives Vince and company the motivation they need to step it up on RAW and move things out of the holding pattern they have been in for several months now.


WWE really is in poor shape when you actually look at these numbers.

Raw is a 3 hour show. It's stacked with filler, and has been stuck in purgatory for months. Even the booking of the show demonstrates the writers don't give a crap.

Smackdown had several championship matches, plenty of advertisements, and John Cena making his return yet it barely managed to beat Raw's viewership. It's so negligible that it doesn't even matter. A 2 hour stacked show against 3 hours of filler hell, and there's barely a difference.

No superstar really matters anymore. It's literally WWE picking up after itself now, which is why you have such steady numbers. They've become the niche product we always said they were before. While they're making a lot of money from a 3 hour Raw, they've definitely hurt their overall viewership with the way they're forced to book that show.


----------



## 4everEyebrowRaisin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

So that's Cena and AJ back on RAW soon, then. This won't be allowed to happen again anytime soon.


----------



## Not Lying

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

This is awesome. Congrats!!


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



> With a heavily hyped year-end episode that featured three title matches and the return of John Cena to WWE television for the first time in over two months, it was a real possibility that this week's SmackDown would top Raw in the ratings.
> 
> That possibility became a reality on Thursday morning when the delayed numbers (due to it being Christmas week) for Tuesday were released. This week's SmackDown averaged 2.88 million viewers, just barely beating the 2.85 that Monday's episode of Raw averaged. The show was third for the night on cable and in the 18-49 demo.
> 
> This is the first time that SmackDown has topped Raw since the WWE Draft special beat that week's edition of Raw in July. SmackDown has come close since, with Cena's previous return in September, the week where Raw was opposite the first presidential debate, and the loaded 900th episode in November coming close to beating the previous Monday's episode.
> 
> With Monday Night Football over for the season, Raw viewership should see a boost going forward. But the increased presence of Cena on television as we enter the months leading up to WrestleMania should help SmackDown and its ratings.
> 
> Here's a chart from Paul Fontaine that shows SmackDown ratings as compared to that week's Raw since the brand split:


http://www.f4wonline.com/wwe-news/smackdown-ratings-top-raw-first-time-wwe-draft-227331


----------



## The Renegade

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Dolorian said:


> Congrats to SD for finally beating RAW on the ratings this week...
> 
> *Raw ratings (source)* - Average = 2.856
> 
> *SmackDown ratings (source)* - Average = 2.885 million
> 
> Let's see if this gives Vince and company the motivation they need to step it up on RAW and move things out of the holding pattern they have been in for several months now.


Triple H back to Raw confirmed. :lol


----------



## Dolorian

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Renegade said:


> Triple H back to Raw confirmed. :lol


Definitely, no doubt Vince enters into "panic mode" and tells him to get his act together and show his ass on RAW :lol


----------



## chrispepper

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Caped Crusader said:


> WWE really is in poor shape when you actually look at these numbers.
> 
> Raw is a 3 hour show. It's stacked with filler, and has been stuck in purgatory for months. Even the booking of the show demonstrates the writers don't give a crap.
> 
> Smackdown had several championship matches, plenty of advertisements, and John Cena making his return yet it barely managed to beat Raw's viewership. It's so negligible that it doesn't even matter. A 2 hour stacked show against 3 hours of filler hell, and there's barely a difference.
> 
> No superstar really matters anymore. It's literally WWE picking up after itself now, which is why you have such steady numbers. They've become the niche product we always said they were before. While they're making a lot of money from a 3 hour Raw, they've definitely hurt their overall viewership with the way they're forced to book that show.


Meh, you have to remember how long Smackdown was booked as the unnecessary filler b-show that didn't really matter. It was going to take audiences a while to figure out that the two shows were now equals, but this is really huge news.

No doubt with the quality of the show as well, people will 100% be sticking around.

And yes, Cena was advertised, and there were three championship matches, but it's not like there were huge draws in these matches. The main event was sold on Baron Corbin (a guy being given his first shot), Dolph Ziggler (a guy who has been given too many shots) trying to end Styles' title reign, and then the tag and womens matches.

I think this bodes really well for Smackdown, and with Taker set to return, and the show clearly looking like it will have the most significant feuds going into Wrestlemania, I wouldn't be surprised if they beat raw in the ratings a few more times.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Renegade said:


> Triple H back to Raw confirmed. :lol


That'll be in two weeks, when there's no more MNF to contend with. Guaranteed.


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Raw & Smackdown combined rating this time in 2015:*
5,194,000

*Raw & Smackdown combined rating this time in 2016:*
5,741,000


Keep it up Smackdown. Your show was awesome this week and deserved to beat Raw.


----------



## starsfan24

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

YES!!!!


----------



## Dolorian

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Cleaner said:


> That'll be in two weeks, when there's no more MNF to contend with. Guaranteed.


Didn't MNF end this week? I had the impression that there was no game next week?


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Dolorian said:


> Didn't MNF end this week? I had the impression that there was no game next week?


Dammit, you're right. Well, they'll take the extra week for the writers to come up with some snappy comebacks like the Punk burn for the inevitable 'what' chants or whatever obsolete star the crowd decides to yell about that night.


----------



## A-C-P

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Dolorian said:


> Didn't MNF end this week? I had the impression that there was no game next week?


MNF did end this past week, but this upcoming Monday will be the day/night of all the New Year's day College Bowl games will be happening, so there will still be football competition for Raw.


----------



## Dolorian

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



A-C-P said:


> MNF did end this past week, but this upcoming Monday will be the day/night of all the New Year's day College Bowl games will be happening, so there will still be football competition for Raw.


Yeah but Goldberg has been announced (ratings boost) and Vince should be on "panic" mode due to SD beating RAW in the ratings so I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up.


----------



## The Renegade

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Dolorian said:


> Definitely, no doubt Vince enters into "panic mode" and tells him to get his act together and show his ass on RAW :lol


So predictable its hilarious. 



The Cleaner said:


> That'll be in two weeks, when there's no more MNF to contend with. Guaranteed.


There actually isn't a MNF game this upcoming week. Count on seeing him Monday night. :HHH2


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



A-C-P said:


> MNF did end this past week, but this upcoming Monday will be the day/night of all the New Year's day College Bowl games will be happening, so there will still be football competition for Raw.


Ok, thanks. See, I almost knew what I was talking about. :lol


----------



## Kabraxal

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Hopefully, with the solid show that it was this week, SDL maintains more audience interest. But I think it is safe to say that putting wrestling matches that actually matter on television does draw interest and eyes... and SDL still managed some small build up with backstage segments that worked nicely. Keep the quality in the range it has been the past few weeks, and SDL will consistently start to outdraw Raw. 

Sadly, I don't think Vince will see this as the indictment it is on his variety show tendencies. He'll more than likely gut SDL to try and boost Raw while still doing the same stupid backstage skits we've seen far too much of on Raw.


----------



## D.M.N.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

With quarter four (October to December) now complete, here are how things are looking percentage wise. The +/- is an average of the comparison between (i.e. for Q4 2016):

- the previous quarter (Q3 2016)
- one year earlier (Q4 2015)
- two years earlier (Q4 2014)

Here are the quarter four percentage figures for recent years:

*+2.1% = 2016*
+1.3% = 2013
-4.3% = 2014
-15.3% = 2015

From a year perspective:

Q4 2012 = 2.58 million
Q4 2013 = 2.74 million (up 6.0%)
Q4 2014 = 2.54 million (down 7.1%)
Q4 2015 = 2.10 million (down 17.3%)
Q4 2016 = 2.43 million (down 15.5%)

Across 2016, WWE SmackDown averaged *2.42 million viewers*. Since the draft, SmackDown has averaged 2.52 million viewers.


----------



## JC00

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Vince will just think it's because of Cena, which will make Vince ditch any thought of it being Taker/Boreman at WM instead of Taker/Cena


----------



## TheFackingCrow

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Hard to admit, but I guess Cena still can draw some numbers. :cena4

As for the quality of the show, it was like a mini PPV, with like three title matches.

It was only good because it was overhyped, they won't be having title matches every week.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 12/27/16 Vs 12/20/16 ):
2.885M Vs 2.637M ( + 0.248M / + 9.40% )
0.940D Vs 0.880D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.885M Vs 2.856M ( + 0.029M / + 1.02% )
0.940D Vs 1.010D

Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 3rd by viewership.
*









*Viewership & demo ( 12/27/16 Vs 12/31/15 ):
2.885M Vs 1.658M ( + 1.227M / + 74.00% )
0.940D Vs 0.460D

SDL Vs RAW:
1.658M Vs 3.536M ( - 1.878M / 46.89% )
0.460D Vs 1.207D

Note: SDL this week last year was 11th by demo & 14th by viewership.*


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Good for smackdown. Cena is still a draw it seems. Idk if they will keep this up. Vince will probably sabotage SD soon


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I'm not usually one to gloat, but...


----------



## TD_DDT

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I knew SDL was going to win the ratings war this week. Well deserved tbh


----------



## Cipher

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

VINCE IS MAD THAT X IS SUCCEEDING AND MAKING HIM MORE MONEY!!11

No.


----------



## Kabraxal

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Cipher said:


> VINCE IS MAD THAT X IS SUCCEEDING AND MAKING HIM MORE MONEY!!11
> 
> No.


Then why, since the Attitude Era ended, does Vinnie boy have a long list of spiteful actions and piss poor booking against those that got over without his approval? Heyman, Punk, Christian (2005 was the worst but this poor guy was rammed repeatedly), Ryder, Bryan, and Cesaro are all obvious..... when you dig deeper you find his penchant for punishing guys associated with WCW was a joke and his hatred towards the fans for not liking his bullshit cannot be denied. 

Jesus Christ... this is the dumb motherfucker that fought Austin's rise and DX tooth and nail until he was FORCED to change because WCW was kicking his ass.


----------



## Mra22

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Finally Smackdown beats RAW in the ratings! RAW is trash


----------



## The Dazzler

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Wow. Well deserved! I didn't expect it to happen this fast. :smile2:


----------



## chronoxiong

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Congrats to the Smackdown team on beating RAW in the ratings! Huge milestone! Vince must be livid! Oh well. Did you guys know that this week's Smackdown discussion thread also beat RAW's discussion thread too? Everything correlates to each other.


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

This isn't the first time they've beaten Raw though this year.

First episode I believe that was live back in July done 3,170,000 whilst Raw got 3,133,000.

But it's impressive that they've managed to beat them TWICE in 5 months when they hadn't beat them previously in 11 YEARS.


----------



## AlternateDemise

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Kabraxal said:


> Then why, since the Attitude Era ended, does Vinnie boy have a long list of spiteful actions and piss poor booking against those that got over without his approval? Heyman, *Punk*, Christian (2005 was the worst but this poor guy was rammed repeatedly), Ryder, *Bryan*, and Cesaro are all obvious..... when you dig deeper you find his penchant for punishing guys associated with WCW was a joke and his hatred towards the fans for not liking his bullshit cannot be denied.
> 
> Jesus Christ... this is the dumb motherfucker that fought Austin's rise and DX tooth and nail until he was FORCED to change because WCW was kicking his ass.


??

Vince was fully behind those guys when they got over. Gave them both world championship reigns and everything. Hell, Daniel Bryan even got a world title push before he became one of the most over wrestlers in the past 10+ years. 

The problem with Punk was that he fucked himself over by comparing himself with Cena and thus lost his push. After the whole contract fiasco, Vince pushed him to the moon (ignore the whole Punk/HHH thing, it's HHH). As for Bryan, he won a fucking match against John Cena clean on PPV for the WWE title. Vince only stopped pushing him after stupidly thinking Bryan was the reason for Summerslam's poor PPV buyrates that year. 

Ryder and Cesaro aren't worthy main eventers by any stretch of the imagination. I agree Ryder was fucked over but I think it was more so due to McMahon just being an idiot than actually trying to sabotage him. Cesaro doesn't belong in the top spot, but you can tell Vince is trying to make an effort to make it work with him. This current thing they're doing with him and Sheamus is proof of that. 

Heyman I've legitimately got nothing on. You're probably right about that one.


----------



## Kabraxal

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



AlternateDemise said:


> ??
> 
> Vince was fully behind those guys when they got over. Gave them both world championship reigns and everything. Hell, Daniel Bryan even got a world title push before he became one of the most over wrestlers in the past 10+ years.
> 
> The problem with Punk was that he fucked himself over by comparing himself with Cena and thus lost his push. After the whole contract fiasco, Vince pushed him to the moon (ignore the whole Punk/HHH thing, it's HHH). As for Bryan, he won a fucking match against John Cena clean on PPV for the WWE title. Vince only stopped pushing him after stupidly thinking Bryan was the reason for Summerslam's poor PPV buyrates that year.
> 
> Ryder and Cesaro aren't worthy main eventers by any stretch of the imagination. I agree Ryder was fucked over but I think it was more so due to McMahon just being an idiot than actually trying to sabotage him. Cesaro doesn't belong in the top spot, but you can tell Vince is trying to make an effort to make it work with him. This current thing they're doing with him and Sheamus is proof of that.
> 
> Heyman I've legitimately got nothing on. You're probably right about that one.


World champion... in the mid card more times than in the main event.... and that is being pushed to the moon? 

Bryan was used as a transitional "champ" so Cena didn't eat the pedigree from HHH. Couldn't have him looking stupid now could we? Then he was shoved to the side until the fans FORCED Vince to put him in at WM. This has been said repeatedly by so many people you can't even dispute it anymore. WMXXX was not meant for Bryan. But Punk walking out and the fans having enough forced Bryan into the main event. 

And we aren't talking "main event" only. Ryder was hot and could have been a huge stable upper carder to help bolster the roster beneath the main event. Buried. Cesaro was massively over but they suddenly turned him heel right after finally be recognized as a face and put him with Heyman who only ever talked about Brock. That isn't being built or pushed properly. That is intentionally putting a guy in the position you know he won't threaten your plans from. With his momentum after that WM Battle Royal win, Cesaro was easily on the fast track for the main event in the fan's eyes. Vince was having NONE of that. And if Vince really wanted Cesaro in the right place and push... he'd be on SDL going after a singles title, not bickering with Sheamus for months and be just another random tag team that means jack shit in the long run. 

No, Vince knew full well what he was doing with these guys. It was intentional because they weren't Cena and then they weren't Reigns. Vince wants to choose the top guy. Not listen to the fans and let them choose.


----------



## AlternateDemise

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Kabraxal said:


> World champion... in the mid card more times than in the main event.... and that is being pushed to the moon?


I would say getting a 434 title reign as WWE Champion is getting pushed to the moon. 

Bryan was used as a transitional "champ" so Cena didn't eat the pedigree from HHH.[/quote]

And your proof of this is...? 



Kabraxal said:


> Then he was shoved to the side until the fans FORCED Vince to put him in at WM. This has been said repeatedly by so many people you can't even dispute it anymore. WMXXX was not meant for Bryan. But Punk walking out and the fans having enough forced Bryan into the main event.


Yes, he was shoved to the side BECAUSE OF THE SUMMERSLAM BUYRATES. And really? You're just going to leave out the part where Bryan was playing the main face of WWE going up against the authority? 



Kabraxal said:


> Cesaro was massively over


Uh, no. Bryan was "massively over". Cesaro was over at a pretty decent rate, but lets not make exaggerations. 



Kabraxal said:


> but they suddenly turned him heel right after finally be recognized as a face and put him with Heyman who only ever talked about Brock. That isn't being built or pushed properly. That is intentionally putting a guy in the position you know he won't threaten your plans from.


It is? Because last I checked, one of Vince's main concerns with Cesaro was that he couldn't talk. At all. So they put him with the best talker in WWE. I'm sorry, how is that putting Cesaro is a worse position? 



Kabraxal said:


> With his momentum after that WM Battle Royal win, Cesaro was easily on the fast track for the main event in the fan's eyes. Vince was having NONE of that. And if Vince really wanted Cesaro in the right place and push... he'd be on SDL going after a singles title, not bickering with Sheamus for months and be just another random tag team that means jack shit in the long run.


While I agree that Cesaro would be better off on Smackdown, what they're doing with him and Sheamus pretty much shows that they still care for getting him over and want to use him to his fullest extent. And no, don't say that him being a main eventer or upper mid carder is using him to his fullest extent. For all the things WWE is usually wrong about, his mic work is something they were 100% correct about. It's an issue and it's something that will prevent him from being able to succeed in the main event spot. At the very least, with this program he's in now, he's being able to flourish and show some personality. That's the best thing they could possibly be doing for Cesaro right now. And maybe you're right about this tag team not meaning much in the long run. But that personality and side of Cesaro that we're able to see right now will benefit Cesaro in the long run.


----------



## Kabraxal

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



AlternateDemise said:


> I would say getting a 434 title reign as WWE Champion is getting pushed to the moon.
> 
> Bryan was used as a transitional "champ" so Cena didn't eat the pedigree from HHH.


And your proof of this is...? 



Yes, he was shoved to the side BECAUSE OF THE SUMMERSLAM BUYRATES. And really? You're just going to leave out the part where Bryan was playing the main face of WWE going up against the authority? 



Uh, no. Bryan was "massively over". Cesaro was over at a pretty decent rate, but lets not make exaggerations. 



It is? Because last I checked, one of Vince's main concerns with Cesaro was that he couldn't talk. At all. So they put him with the best talker in WWE. I'm sorry, how is that putting Cesaro is a worse position? 



While I agree that Cesaro would be better off on Smackdown, what they're doing with him and Sheamus pretty much shows that they still care for getting him over and want to use him to his fullest extent. And no, don't say that him being a main eventer or upper mid carder is using him to his fullest extent. For all the things WWE is usually wrong about, his mic work is something they were 100% correct about. It's an issue and it's something that will prevent him from being able to succeed in the main event spot. At the very least, with this program he's in now, he's being able to flourish and show some personality. That's the best thing they could possibly be doing for Cesaro right now. And maybe you're right about this tag team not meaning much in the long run. But that personality and side of Cesaro that we're able to see right now will benefit Cesaro in the long run.[/QUOTE]

And of that 400+ day reign, he was viewed as the main event... well, once because Cena was injured. Otherwise he was only in the main event because he was facing Cena or the Rock. He was never pushed as the main event. The champion, the hottest thing in wrestling at the time... was pushed as lesser than Cena V Laurinitis and Show. That is not a massive push. 

Bryan beat Cena... Bryan gets pedigreed... Bryan is pushed to the side from then on until the fans start hijacking everything. He wasn't pushed until it was clear WMXXX was shaping up to be a disaster. Then Vince flipped the switch... to only put him into a super hot feud with Kane. Yeah, that is a great push. 

And who cares if Cesaro could talk? He was over without talking at the point. He didn't need to talk. He just needed to wrestle. But Vince saddled him with Heyman, who was clearly told to ignore Cesaro and push Brock, and turned heel. You don't push a guy by never having your manager make him the centerpiece of an angle and putting him in nothing feuds that have long since been forgotten. 

Seriously, this delusion that Vince didn't go out of his way to sabotage guys that weren't his picks has been proven to be a delusion so many times now that I can't believe we still have people repeating it. Not only it is just common sense if you look at the booking, you have guys still under contract and those long since gone that have spoken how Vince deliberately manipulated everything to keep people where he wanted them. There is no disputing that at this point.


----------



## AlternateDemise

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Kabraxal said:


> And of that 400+ day reign, he was viewed as the main event... well, once because Cena was injured. Otherwise he was only in the main event because he was facing Cena or the Rock. He was never pushed as the main event. The champion, the hottest thing in wrestling at the time... was pushed as lesser than Cena V Laurinitis and Show. That is not a massive push.


If you're the top champion in the company getting a 400+ day push, you're getting a massive push. 

I'm not denying he was a victim of very poor booking. But he was getting massive push none the less.



Kabraxal said:


> Bryan beat Cena... Bryan gets pedigreed... Bryan is pushed to the side from then on until the fans start hijacking everything.


Again, quit leaving out the part where Bryan was still being pushed after Summerslam. You're literally making it sound like he got beat the very night he won the title and then was pushed to the side until Wrestlemania 30. That simply wasn't the case. His push was only stopped once they thought he wasn't capable of being a draw, and that was months after Summerslam. [/quote]



Kabraxal said:


> And who cares if Cesaro could talk? He was over without talking at the point. He didn't need to talk. He just needed to wrestle.


You can't be a main eventer if you can't talk. It's as simple as that. Just needing to wrestle isn't going to cut it. I shouldn't have to point that out.



Kabraxal said:


> But Vince saddled him with Heyman, who was clearly told to ignore Cesaro and push Brock, and turned heel. You don't push a guy by never having your manager make him the centerpiece of an angle and putting him in nothing feuds that have long since been forgotten.


"turned heel" 

Huh? When did Cesaro ever turn face? 

And Heyman never made him the centerpiece of his promos? Now you're just making shit up. 



Kabraxal said:


> Seriously, this delusion that Vince didn't go out of his way to sabotage guys that weren't his picks has been proven to be a delusion so many times now that I can't believe we still have people repeating it. Not only it is just common sense if you look at the booking, you have guys still under contract and those long since gone that have spoken how Vince deliberately manipulated everything to keep people where he wanted them. There is no disputing that at this point.


I'm not denying that it's happened before. The problem is that you're claiming these guys were purposely held down by Vince based on pure speculation and nothing more. And it doesn't help that your "evidence" not only makes little sense or just ignores facts but it even at one point makes it look like even more that Vince was trying to help him.

Another problem with your logic is that people change. It's pretty obvious that Vince's way of viewing the business has changed drastically compared to ten years ago. I'm not going to say that his views on whether or not a guy should get over in spite of what he thinks still effects him especially given that we are experiencing one of the worst cases of it in Roman Reigns, but I am going to point out the fact that going off of what Vince has done in the past is a very poor thing to base this on. Business's change, so will people. You're better off just going off of what's in front of you. And right now, it's pretty obvious Vince wasn't trying to hold those people back, and that it was more so along the lines of him just fucking up majorly for the most part. 

I mean, hell, I could go by your logic and say "Vince still hates small guys, he thinks they can't draw" or "Vince hates hiring guys from other companies, he buries them as soon as they arrive" even though it's clear as day that is no longer the case, even though there was a time when this was definitely true. In this day and age where Vince is desperate for new stars, you expect me to believe that Vince is STILL sabotaging talent who are potentially over simply because he doesn't think they're worthy of that spot? Yeah, no, I don't buy that for a second.


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



AlternateDemise said:


> You can't be a main eventer if you can't talk. It's as simple as that. Just needing to wrestle isn't going to cut it. I shouldn't have to point that out.


That never stopped Roman from being pushed :shrug



> And Heyman never made him the centerpiece of his promos? Now you're just making shit up.


Heyman himself said in an interview before Summerslam 2015 that the sole reason behind pairing him with Cesaro was to for him to keep talking about Brock and remind fans about him breaking the streak while Brock was away. It was never to help Cesaro.


----------



## AlternateDemise

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Reotor said:


> That never stopped Roman from being pushed :shrug


And it's one of the reasons why he failed as one :cudi





Reotor said:


> Heyman himself said in an interview before Summerslam 2015 that the sole reason behind pairing him with Cesaro was to for him to keep talking about Brock and remind fans about him breaking the streak while Brock was away. It was never to help Cesaro.


Oh. 

Well then nevermind.


----------



## validreasoning

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



AlternateDemise said:


> You can't be a main eventer if you can't talk. It's as simple as that. Just needing to wrestle isn't going to cut it. I shouldn't have to point that out.


Talking is greatly over-rated on this site. It's not talking ability that attracts fans its the ability to play a character.

I mean sting had his best year by far drawing wise when he didn't say a word. Goldberg wasn't out there cutting 20 minutes promos every night in 1998, neither was Andre during his 20 year north American run.

The sheik was probably greatest heel in us history and he never said a word. Even last decade Lesnar, mysterio, Jeff hardy have all been maineventers and drawn serious money without having to be great live talkers.


----------



## Xander45

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Smackdown beat Raw in the ratings once, and the next Raw they announce Taker and HBK to be coming to the Raw the week after. It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad. Vince wants Smackdown to be competitive, but not actually beat his darling baby Monday Night Raw!

Storyline wise it makes no sense either, considering Taker's last appearance where he said Smackdown was his home and how he would beat the crap out of people if Smackdown didn't beat Raw.


----------



## The Caped Crusader

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Xander45 said:


> Smackdown beat Raw in the ratings once, and the next Raw they announce Taker and HBK to be coming to the Raw the week after. It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad. Vince wants Smackdown to be competitive, but not actually beat his darling baby Monday Night Raw!
> 
> Storyline wise it makes no sense either, considering Taker's last appearance where he said Smackdown was his home and how he would beat the crap out of people if Smackdown didn't beat Raw.


How stupid do you have to be to think they announced HBK and Taker for Raw due to that?

Do you think they're able to get them booked and scheduled for Raw, sort out their advertising for the event, and send out the necessary notifications within 24 hours of learning SD has beat Raw in the ratings? Because that's how quickly they were announced after the ratings came out.

That kind of stuff needs to be planned a couple weeks in advance so they can execute it. I get that people on here probably have no idea how a business is run in any shape or form, but shit like this isn't complicated. It just requires a little critical thought.


----------



## TakerFreak

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Caped Crusader said:


> How stupid do you have to be to think they announced HBK and Taker for Raw due to that?
> 
> Do you think they're able to get them booked and scheduled for Raw, sort out their advertising for the event, and send out the necessary notifications within 24 hours of learning SD has beat Raw in the ratings? Because that's how quickly they were announced after the ratings came out.
> 
> That kind of stuff needs to be planned a couple weeks in advance so they can execute it. I get that people on here probably have no idea how a business is run in any shape or form, but shit like this isn't complicated. It just requires a little critical thought.



Or they did plan it weeks ahead of time knowing Raw will lose because of the NFL week and all they he had was rematches. Vince figured Smackdown would get a little over in the ratings so he booked Taker and HBK. Its possible what i said did not make sense but just maybe it kinda did?:grin2:


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Is AJ "The Draw who beat RAW"?


----------



## Bushmaster

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



validreasoning said:


> *Talking is greatly over-rated on this site. *It's not talking ability that attracts fans its the ability to play a character.
> 
> I mean sting had his best year by far drawing wise when he didn't say a word. Goldberg wasn't out there cutting 20 minutes promos every night in 1998, neither was Andre during his 20 year north American run.
> 
> The sheik was probably greatest heel in us history and he never said a word. Even last decade Lesnar, mysterio, Jeff hardy have all been maineventers and drawn serious money without having to be great live talkers.


You gotta be able to talk until your favorite is front and center just like ringwork doesn't matter but then keep talking about your favorite had MOTN or some shit :mj4


----------



## ecclesiastes10

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

vince wants smackdown to grow in ratings because at the end of the day its more money in his pockets, and grows business I doubt he cares if for one week it surpasess raw in ratings, he is a business man.


----------



## StylesP1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ecclesiastes10 said:


> vince wants smackdown to grow in ratings because at the end of the day its more money in his pockets, and grows business I doubt he cares if for one week it surpasess raw in ratings, he is a business man.


This is why when Smackdown started beating Raw weekly during the first brand split, he raided SD to boost Raw....Because he doesn't care if SD beats Raw. 

He cares. Bet your ass that he cares. SDL WILL NOT be allowed to beat Raw regularly. Vince will see to it. He has before.


----------



## Dolorian

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SmackDown viewership: *2.596m* (source)


----------



## daniel bryan rules

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Alright rating though a little surprising it wasn't higher. As after last weeks great show. i didn't think 300k people would not watch the following episode.


----------



## The Caped Crusader

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



daniel bryan rules said:


> Alright rating though a little surprising it wasn't higher. As after last weeks great show. i didn't think 300k people would not watch the following episode.


The show wasn't that great. It was pretty mediocre all things considered. Standards have just really lowered in the past few years. They had a big advertising push for last week's show with Cena's return. That generates a short and immediate interest, which obviously isn't going to be sustained. SDL's next big chance for a viewership boost is the Cena/Taker angle.

Basically, if Cena wins the WWE title, and Taker wins the Royal Rumble, then the Tuesday immediately after is their first real chance at hitting above 3 million viewers.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 1/3/17 Vs 12/27/16 ):
2.596M Vs 2.885M ( - 0.289M / - 10.02% )
0.880D Vs 0.940D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.596M Vs 3.047M ( - 0.451M / 85.20% )
0.880D Vs 1.090D

Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 10th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 1/3/17 Vs 1/7/16 ):
2.596M Vs 2.757M ( - 0.161M / - 5.84% )
0.880D Vs 0.850D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.757M Vs 3.575M ( + 0.818M / 77.12% )
0.850D Vs 1.220D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 2nd by viewership.*


----------



## THREE AIN'T ENOUGH

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Not surprising. People only tuned in last week because of the hype of Cena's return, which quickly died as usual and viewership went down because people realized the product (and Cena returning) just isn't that interesting.


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

So still about 5,500,000+ tuning into WWE programming each week? I think they'll be happy with that.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Expect them to do worse compared to RAW in coming months, as they face stronger competition than RAW, save for the College Football and Basketball Championships.


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Well that was fun while it lasted


----------



## JDP2016

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I wonder if Stephanie will mention this on RAW next week?


----------



## ecclesiastes10

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Erik. said:


> So still about 5,500,000+ tuning into WWE programming each week? I think they'll be happy with that.


bro, come on they are not all unique viewers...


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ecclesiastes10 said:


> bro, come on they are not all unique viewers...


Why would WWE care about that?


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Not surprised.

2.5m is what you'd expect them to hover around, still think Tuesday is a horrible day to have SD.

I think they'd perform much better on Thursday.


----------



## kristie wilson

*Re: **All Smackdown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here** - THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



SHIVVY POO II: ELECTRIC BOOGALOO said:


> Will SD rise above RAW? Stay tuned.



i think it will!! i have faith.


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

85% of Raw viewership as per normal.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 1/10/17 Vs 1/3/17 ):
2.533M Vs 2.596M ( - 0.063M / - 2.43% )
0.850D Vs 0.880D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.533M Vs 2.907M ( - 0.374M / 87.13% )
0.850D Vs 0.967D

Note: SDL is 4th by demo & 10th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 1/10/17 Vs 1/14/16 ):
2.533M Vs 2.332M ( + 0.201M / + 8.62% )
0.850D Vs 0.700D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.332M Vs 3.323M ( - 0.991M / 70.18% )
0.700D Vs 1.180D

Note: SDL this week last year was 5th by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## RubberbandGoat

87% retention. Got to love it


----------



## The Caped Crusader

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

OMG. OMG. Cena/Styles aren't drawing. No one gives a shit. Take the title off Styles. Put Cena back in the midcard. Obviously The Miz deserves a chance, and maybe Baron Corbin, and and and Dolph Ziggler!

On a more serious note, I'm curious to see how well Cena/Taker will do. I feel like it's SDL's one real shot at getting better viewership numbers, but I also think WWE could book it shitty if it happens. With Cena's current character of being a little more arrogant, it would be more interesting if they made it a conflict where Taker could call out Cena on some of his shit about the new era going through him. After all, Cena has never gone through The Deadman. Better that than some respect angle like they tend to do with the big face/face matches.

I also feel a Cena/Taker fued would bring a lot of legitimacy to the SDL show. They've already tried a lot by having the WWE championship on it, and constantly promoting it, but nothing would send that message louder and clearer than allowing 2 of the biggest stars ever to get a fued that you can only witness if you tune into SDL.


----------



## Kabraxal

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Wasn't last night the "Farewell address" or whatever?


----------



## JDP2016

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Kabraxal said:


> Wasn't last night the "Farewell address" or whatever?


That was only 30 minutes.


----------



## Kabraxal

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



JDP2016 said:


> That was only 30 minutes.


I honestly had no clue if it was or how long. I detest our politicians and normally don't want to see them blowing smoke up my ass for any length of time.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Stable rating. It's retention of RAW viewers increased with RAW suffering a loss on Monday. Decent night for SDL.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 1/17/17 Vs 1/10/17 ):
2.652M Vs 2.533M ( + 0.119M / + 4.70% )
0.900D Vs 0.850D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.652M Vs 3.271M ( - 0.619M / 81.08% )
0.900D Vs 1.137D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 10th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 1/17/17 Vs 1/21/16 ):
2.652M Vs 2.757M ( - 0.105M / - 3.81% )
0.900D Vs 0.820D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.757M Vs 3.496M ( - 0.739M / 78.86% )
0.820D Vs 1.220D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 3rd by viewership.*


----------



## JC00

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 10th by viewership.[/B]


SD won the night in the key demo, 18-49. Hence why that chart shows it #1.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It's good to see an increase in both demo and total viewership. Only 81% retention rate of RAW, mostly because RAW was unencumbered with football competition. Through May, SDL will be facing much stiffer competition than RAW save for the NCAA Basketball Championship game in April. Overall, it's nice to see both shows increase.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Like Raw, not good it's down from last year. This show was built and promoted on Bliss/Becky in the cage. On one hand the audience did increase from last week (and not due to no football competition anymore like Raw) so it may actually speak positively on that program that they out performed the advertised matches for last week (Cena/Corbin and Tag Title Rematch). 

On the other hand, maybe the increase was actually due to Raw not having Football competition this week. Maybe because Raw got a lot more people watching this week, those people who jumped back in for Raw and never bothered to keep up with Smackdown may have given Smackdown a watch. 

In any event, as far as Raw vs Smackdown, Smackdown is still trying to dig itself out of the rut that years of just being an extra two hours of Raw put it in. However the fact it's down from last year's edition of the same week isn't a good sign. Ultimately though I hope WWE stays the course for Smackdown as far as however they're booking/writing it at least through the end of the year. Even though this week was one of its weaker show and Raw had one of its better shows, it was still miles ahead of Raw. Hopefully if they keep doing what they're doing and Raw unfortunately keeps doing what it's doing, the ratings/viewership reflect that down the line.


----------



## Not Lying

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Becky and Alexa doing so well, they main evented, got the biggest ratings behind the Taker/Edge and Cena return episodes + on youtube very similar number to Orton/Ambrose (only 7k difference, and had them beat for a while). Good job ladies.


----------



## validreasoning

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



#BadNewsSanta said:


> Like Raw, not good it's down from last year.


Viewership was down slightly but 18-49 demo was up which is far more important

Anyway finishing top of cable charts can't be considered bad regardless. We also have to take into account the millions of homes that have dropped USA over the past year (3 million homes dropped the channel between August 2015 and November 2016) so small viewership drops should be expected

SD did start strong on USA back in january/early February last year and then fell back a little


----------



## Crasp

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Have a feeling it'll be down next week following this weeks episode.


----------



## Randy Lahey

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



validreasoning said:


> Anyway finishing top of cable charts can't be considered bad regardless.


It can when you factor in what USA is paying WWE for a LIVE TV show. They could buy re-runs of The Office, put them into the Smackdown's spot, and come out financially better even with a lower rating.


----------



## Darren Criss

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

how the hell people sayin' this was due becky and alexa


----------



## validreasoning

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Randy Lahey said:


> It can when you factor in what USA is paying WWE for a LIVE TV show. They could buy re-runs of The Office, put them into the Smackdown's spot, and come out financially better even with a lower rating.



The office on cable would struggle to do much above 500,000 viewers and a 0.2 in cable re-runs reducing the stations overall average audience, its key demo and its advertising revenue so overall it would come out worse.

There is no mention of re-runs in this press release last month http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2016/1216/620412/usa-touts-history-making-success/


----------



## JC00

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

A Smackdown that was main evented by Alexa and Becky was the most watched non-special edition SD (Episode 900 and Wild Card Finals) since September 

July 19, 2016 - 3,170,000 viewers *(Smackdown Live Premiere w/2016 WWE Draft)*
July 26, 2016 - 2,743,000 viewers *(First episode post-brand split) *
August 2, 2016 - 2,681,000 viewers
August 9, 2016 - 2,455,000 viewers
August 16, 2016 - 2,471,000 viewers
August 23, 2016 - 2,714,000 viewers
August 30, 2016 - 2,835,000 viewers
September 6, 2016 - 2,454,000 viewers
*September 13, 2016 - 2,658,000 viewers*
September 20, 2016 - 2,292,000 viewers
September 27, 2016 - 2,340,000 viewers
October 4, 2016 - 2,316,000 viewers
October 11, 2016 - 2,448,000 viewers
October 18, 2016 - 2,405,000 viewers
October 25, 2016 - 2,127,000 viewers
November 1, 2016 - 2,187,000 viewers
November 8, 2016 - 1,921,000 viewers (Election Day Coverage)
November 16, 2016 - 2,725,000 viewers *(900th special featuring Undertaker and Edge)*
November 22, 2016 - 2,505,000 viewers
November 29, 2016 - 2,576,000 viewers
December 6, 2016 - 2,479,000 viewers
December 13, 2016 - 2,361,000 viewers
December 20, 2016 - 2,637,000 viewers
December 27, 2016 - 2,885,000 viewers *(Wild Card Finals/Cena Return)*
January 3, 2017 : 2,596,000 viewers 
January 10, 2017 : 2,533,000 viewers
*January 17, 2017 : 2,652,000 viewers*


----------



## Not Lying

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Darren Criss said:


> how the hell people sayin' this was due becky and alexa


Because their match was the most hyped of the week? and If the fans could have left the arena if no one cares about them like they did when the divas were thought of as bathroom break...if the ratings will have gone down people would have laughed that "WWE thinks the women can keep the fans interest" well not only did they keep the fans' interest, they actually got SD of it's highest ratings post-draft.


----------



## Darren Criss

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Definition of Technician said:


> they actually got SD of it's highest ratings post-draft.





JC00 said:


> A Smackdown that was main evented by Alexa and Becky was the most watched non-special edition SD (Episode 900 and Wild Card Finals) since September
> 
> July 19, 2016 - 3,170,000 viewers *(Smackdown Live Premiere w/2016 WWE Draft)*
> July 26, 2016 - 2,743,000 viewers *(First episode post-brand split) *
> August 2, 2016 - 2,681,000 viewers
> August 9, 2016 - 2,455,000 viewers
> August 16, 2016 - 2,471,000 viewers
> August 23, 2016 - 2,714,000 viewers
> August 30, 2016 - 2,835,000 viewers
> September 6, 2016 - 2,454,000 viewers
> *September 13, 2016 - 2,658,000 viewers*
> September 20, 2016 - 2,292,000 viewers
> September 27, 2016 - 2,340,000 viewers
> October 4, 2016 - 2,316,000 viewers
> October 11, 2016 - 2,448,000 viewers
> October 18, 2016 - 2,405,000 viewers
> October 25, 2016 - 2,127,000 viewers
> November 1, 2016 - 2,187,000 viewers
> November 8, 2016 - 1,921,000 viewers (Election Day Coverage)
> November 16, 2016 - 2,725,000 viewers *(900th special featuring Undertaker and Edge)*
> November 22, 2016 - 2,505,000 viewers
> November 29, 2016 - 2,576,000 viewers
> December 6, 2016 - 2,479,000 viewers
> December 13, 2016 - 2,361,000 viewers
> December 20, 2016 - 2,637,000 viewers
> December 27, 2016 - 2,885,000 viewers *(Wild Card Finals/Cena Return)*
> January 3, 2017 : 2,596,000 viewers
> January 10, 2017 : 2,533,000 viewers
> *January 17, 2017 : 2,652,000 viewers*


for sure...


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 1/24/17 Vs 1/17/17 ):
2.556M Vs 2.652M ( - 0.096M / - 3.62% )
0.860D Vs 0.900D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.556M Vs 3.271M ( - 0.715M / 78.14% )
0.860D Vs 1.203D

Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 10th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 1/24/17 Vs 1/28/16 ):
2.556M Vs 2.720M ( - 0.164M / - 6.04% )
0.860D Vs 0.870D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.720M Vs 4.098M ( - 1.378M / 66.37% )
0.870D Vs 1.493D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 5th by viewership*.


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

So no one is gonna talk about SDs ratings being down from last week?


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 1/31/17 Vs 1/24/17 ):
2.817M Vs 2.556M ( + 0.261M / + 10.21% )
1.020D Vs 0.860D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.817M Vs 3.615M ( - 0.798M / 77.93% )
1.020D Vs 1.367D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 9th by viewership.*









*
Viewership & demo ( 1/31/17 Vs 2/4/16 ):
2.817M Vs 2.664M ( + 0.153M / + 5.74% )
1.020D Vs 0.850D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.664M Vs 3.383M ( - 0.719M / 78.75% )
0.850D Vs 1.217D*

*Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*


----------



## Kabraxal

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Decent PPV bump... but hopefully the numbers tank for next week off that god awful episode of Raw lite we just got shoved down our throats by Vinnie boy.


----------



## Y.2.J

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

RAW = 3.615M
SDL = 2.817M
TTL = 6.432M

6.432M total viewers this week for live WWE cable television programming. Not bad for a dying company.


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 1/31, coming off the Royal Rumble, did its third best number since moving to live on Tuesdays, with 2,817,000 viewers, up ten percent from last week.
> 
> The show was ninth for the night on cable, with all eight shows beating it being Fox News Network shows.
> 
> The show did a 0.74 in 12-17 (up 27.6 percent), 0.84 in 18-34 (up 18.3 percent), 1.20 in 35-49 (up 18.8 percent) and 1.02 in 50+ (up 2.0 percent).
> 
> The audience was 55.6 percent males in 18-49 and 62.1 percent males in 12-17, which is the same skew as last week, meaning the increases were not skewed any more toward men or women than the usual make-up.


----------



## Starbuck

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

When Raw does a good rating, SD does a good rating. Pretty solid trend it seems.


----------



## Hangman

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Alexa Bliss = Ratings?


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 2/7/17 Vs 1/31/17 ):
2.627M Vs 2.817M ( - 0.190M / - 6.75% )
0.910D Vs 1.020D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.627M Vs 3.115M ( - 0.488M / 84.33% )
0.910D Vs 1.137D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 10th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 2/7/17 Vs 2/11/16 ):
2.617M Vs 2.414M ( + 0.203M / + 8.41% )
0.910D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.414M Vs 3.368M ( - 0.954M / 71.67% )
0.750D Vs 1.367D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Ratings are dropping. Give AJ the title back.


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Has nothing to do with AJ, RAW ratings dropped (even bigger drop) so it was expected for SDL's to drop as well.


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Yes I was kind of joking tbh. Smackdown ratings are still good and I expect another leap next Tuesday on the show after Elimination Chamber.


----------



## Bushmaster

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Was this SD the one with Cena vs Orton?


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 2/7, built around a John Cena vs. Randy Orton match, did 2,627,000 viewers, down seven percent from the post-Rumble show which is an expected level of decline and a good number for the show.
> 
> It was 10th for the night on cable.
> 
> The show did a 0.70 in 12-17 (down 5.4 percent from last week), 0.84 in 18-34 (same as last week), 0.98 in 35-49 (down 18.3 percent) and 0.98 in 50+ (down 3.9 percent).
> 
> The show did 58.2 percent males in 18-49 and 63.8 percent males in 12-17.





> The Smackdown crew had a strong weekend. They opened on 2/4 in Grand Forks, ND, before 4,000 fans, the key being a market the WWE never plays (I believe the last WWE event in the market was 12 years ago). The 2/5 show was in Winnipeg, a traditionally strong market that hasn’t gotten a show in more than one year, which drew 6,000. 2/6 in Abbottsford, BC, drew 3,000, which was pretty good considering there was ice storm that day. I mean, since almost everyone buys tickets in advance, things like bad weather don’t really affect attendance like in other eras, but even with the storm, almost everyone with tickets came


----------



## Robrog8999

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

So I've heard that Smackdown is actually better then Raw these days. Even passed Raw in ratings a couple weeks ago? I dont watch wrestling anymore so I am not so familiar, but I do keep up with news related to the WWE and saw an article about this somewhere. Is this true? What's the better show in your opinion right now (Since SD went live)?


----------



## Xander45

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Robrog8999 said:


> So I've heard that Smackdown is actually better then Raw these days. Even passed Raw in ratings a couple weeks ago? I dont watch wrestling anymore so I am not so familiar, but I do keep up with news related to the WWE and saw an article about this somewhere. Is this true? *What's the better show in your opinion right now (Since SD went live)?*


SD has been the better show for the most part, but Raw has definitely had better episodes some weeks.

The main problem has been that since the start of the year WWE have definitely focused highly on RAW (because it's the flagship) and having the big returns and debuts there while we're on the road to Mania, so it has made SD feel like it's on the backburner. All the big storylines going into Mania are being built on Raw and there's very few SD matches even close to being a lock for that.

Orton/Wyatt is rumoured, but then Cena, AJ, Ambrose, Miz and all the others have no set storylines as of now. Of course Elimination Chamber is this weekend, so hopefully things become a lot more clearer after that and then SD can start building again.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 2/14/17 Vs 2/7/17 ):
2.626M Vs 2.627M ( - 0.001M / - 0.0004% )
0.870D Vs 0.910D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.626M Vs 3.087M ( - 0.461M / 85.07% )
0.870D Vs 1.067D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 8th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 2/14/17 Vs 2/18/16 ):
2.626M Vs 2.458M ( + 0.168M / + 6.83% )
0.870D Vs 0.780D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.458M Vs 3.477M ( - 1.019M / 70.69% )
0.780D Vs 1.213D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 3rd by viewership.*


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

drop of 0.001 million ?


GET THE BELT OFF BRAY


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 2/21/17 Vs 2/14/17 ):
2.792M Vs 2.626M ( + 0.166M / + 6.32% )
0.950D Vs 0.870D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.792M Vs 3.216M ( - 0.324M / 86.82% )
0.950D Vs 1.157D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 6th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 2/21/17 Vs 2/25/16 ):
2.792M Vs 2.395M ( + 0.397M / + 16.58% )
0.950D Vs 0.760D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.395M Vs 3.884M ( - 1.489M / 61.66% )
0.760D Vs 1.350D

Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 5th by viewership.*


----------



## A-C-P

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Nice numbers for the BLUE BRAND :bjpenn


----------



## JC00

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



A-C-P said:


> Nice numbers for the BLUE BRAND :bjpenn


Especially considering half the show was spent on the women's division. Not saying I hate that, on the contrary i'm glad SD is giving the women's division that much time. I'm talking more about the casual viewers go flipping the channel during women's division stuff.


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



> Tuesday night's SmackDown on the USA Network was up to 2.792 million viewers, the show's third-best showing since last July's brand split.
> 
> The show featured a previously announced battle royal to supposedly determine a new number one contender for the WWE Championship in the main event. The night also opened with a SmackDown Women's Championship match between rivals Alexa Bliss and Becky Lynch after Naomi was forced to relinquish the title and a well-promoted grudge match between Nikki Bella and Natalya.
> 
> SmackDown finished fifth for the night in total viewers on cable, higher than it does most weeks, and it was second in the 18-49 demo with a 0.95 rating. It also retained a slightly higher than usual portion of the Raw audience from the night before, at 87.5 percent.
> 
> There was no big sports competition on Tuesday with the NBA on its All-Star break so that likely helped the rating, although all the major networks did have first-run programming.
> 
> Here's a look at SmackDown ratings so far in 2017 as compared to Raw from the same week:


http://www.f4wonline.com/wwe-news/smackdown-does-third-best-ratings-number-brand-split-230631


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 2/28/17 Vs 2/21/17 ):
2.566M Vs 2.792M ( - 0.226M / - 8.09% )
0.860D Vs 0.950D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.566M Vs 3.093M ( - 0.527M / 82.96% )
0.860D Vs 1.080D

Note: SDL is 7th by demo & 16th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 2/28/17 Vs 3/3/16 ):
2.566M Vs 2.491M ( + 0.075M / + 3.01% )
0.860D Vs 0.770D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.491M Vs 3.724M ( - 1.233M / 66.89% )
0.770D Vs 1.317D

Note: SDL this week last year was 5th by demo & 9th by viewership.*


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 2/28 dropped eight percent from the prior week with 2,566,000 viewers built around an A.J. Styles vs. Luke Harper match to determine the WrestleMania WWE title challenger.
> 
> The drop was likely at least partially due to coverage of the Donald Trump address, although that only went against the second hour of Smackdown. Smackdown finished in 16th place for the night on cable, behind mostly the address and analysis on Fox News and CNN of the address. The address itself against hour two of Smackdown did 10,673,000 viewers on Fox News and another 3,912,000 viewers on CNN.
> 
> Although if you look at the demos, the drops are in all the wrong places.
> 
> The show did an 0.62 in 12-17 (down 17.3 percent), 0.74 in 18-34 (down 8.6 percent), 0.98 in 35-49 (down 10.1 percent) and 1.06 in 50+ (down 0.9 percent).
> 
> When you look at Trump’s speech against hour two, that show did a 1.38 in 12-17, 1.86 in 18-34, 3.54 in 35-49 and 9.70 in 50+. So it makes no sense if the speech was the reason for there to be no drop in Smackdown’s 50+ audience and a huge drop in the teenage audience.
> 
> The audience was 56.1 percent male in 18-49 and 65.3 percent male in 12-17.


----------



## The Figure 4

*Smackdown outdraws Raw again*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Notes from the 2/28 Smackdown tapings in St. Paul. Smackdown is more and more outdrawing Raw, as they had 10,000 fans here, way more than Smackdown usually does in a market that size. They’ve also been beating Raw domestically all year at the house shows.


Raw on 2/27 Raw in Green Bay drew 6,900 fans.


----------



## Master Bate

*Re: Smackdown outdraws Raw again*










When you have the best wrestlers on the roster, that is what should happen.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Smackdown outdraws Raw again*

Wasn't SD in a much bigger market?

Oh wow, SD has been consistently beating Raw in house shows. 

I'm a bit surprised by that... but I guess that's the Cena effect :cena


----------



## Mad Max

*Re: Smackdown outdraws Raw again*

Good, hopefully this causes Raw to up their game and we get a good product all around.


----------



## MontyCora

*Re: Smackdown outdraws Raw again*



ItsaNewDay said:


> When you have the best wrestlers on the roster, that is what should happen.


When Raw is about 40 minutes of good material in a sea of absolutely cringe worthy garbage, it's not shocking. I can't remember the last time I didn't just skip to the parts I was interested in. Watching a full three hour Raw is INSANE, that must be like torture sitting in the building.


----------



## Master Bate

*Re: Smackdown outdraws Raw again*



MontyCora said:


> When Raw is about 40 minutes of good material in a sea of absolutely cringe worthy garbage, it's not shocking. I can't remember the last time I didn't just skip to the parts I was interested in. Watching a full three hour Raw is INSANE, that must be like torture sitting in the building.


Yep.

Without this forum it would be impossible.


----------



## Mra22

*Re: Smackdown outdraws Raw again*

Seeing how RAW is two hours of filler usually and 1 hour of story, I don't blame fans.


----------



## lesenfanteribles

*Re: Smackdown outdraws Raw again*

It always reminded me of Smackdown more than a decade ago when they had a much better product imo. Sure RAW back then had a lot of star power while Smackdown focused on more wrestling but I've always thought that maybe having a shorter schedule helps. It's hard to tell tbh. I've always thought that both shows had a good balance even though RAW seemed to have gotten more from the Draft, I don't know maybe it's the appeal of having John Cena and AJ Styles I guess. Personally, I've enjoyed watching Smackdown more than RAW lately.


----------



## zkorejo

*Re: Smackdown outdraws Raw again*

Not surprising. Smackdown is unquestionably a much better show. Raw is a shitshow featuring part-timers to stay relevant.


----------



## JDP2016

*Re: Smackdown outdraws Raw again*

What's to like on RAW? We prefer Daniel and Shane over Foley and Steph. We prefer Cena and AJ over Roman and Seth. We don't like the RAW women's division or it's title. Other than Braun and Jericho, what is there to like? I don't see the show getting any better unless Vince does a draft and moves people around.


----------



## VitoCorleoneX

*SmackDown > Raw ? Whats up with that?*









is it empty there?


----------



## StylesP1

*Re: Whats up with that?*

This weeks Smackdown drew 4,000 more fans to the arena is what happened.


----------



## VitoCorleoneX

*Re: Whats up with that?*



StylesP1 said:


> This weeks Smackdown drew 4,000 more fans to the arena is what happened.


Really????
Cant believe it honestly.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

*Re: Whats up with that?*

_*Not surprised with Raw on how bad it has been. *_


----------



## wwe9391

Once Cena goes away again smackdown house show numbers will be back in the can.

Raw still has better ratings.


----------



## Kabraxal

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It's starting to happen... this is exactly what happened in the 90s in the MNW: one show started packing the houses but the ratings lagged. SDL might start seeing dividends IF WrestleMania doesn't fuck it up and they don't ruin it with a draft.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 3/7/17 Vs 2/28/17 ):
2.738M Vs 2.566M ( + 0.172M / + 6.70% )
0.890D Vs 0.860D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.738M Vs 3.216M ( - 0.478M / 85.14% )
0.890D Vs 1.123D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 3/7/17 Vs 3/10/16 ):
2.738M Vs 2.186M ( + 0.552M / + 25.25% )
0.890D Vs 0.650D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.186M Vs 3.551M ( - 1.365M / 61.56% )
0.650D Vs 1.263D

Note: SDL this week last year was 6th by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

85% as usual.


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 3/7, built around A.J. Styles vs. Randy Orton for the WrestleMania title shot and a mixed tag with John Cena & Nikki Bella, did a strong 2,738,000 viewers, up seven percent from the prior week.
> 
> Last week’s show was held back by a Donald Trump address going against the second hour and much larger ratings for the news stations.
> 
> Smackdown was sixth for the night on cable.
> 
> The show did a 0.71 in 12-17 (up 14.5 percent), 0.81 in 18-34 (up 9.5 percent), 0.97 in 35-49 (down 1.0 percent) and 1.16 in 50+ (up 9.4 percent).
> 
> The show did 59.0 percent males in 18-49 and 62.8 percent males in 12-17.





> Notes from the 3/7 tapings in Indianapolis. The show drew 8,000 fans, which is another strong number for the Smackdown tapings. Some people left after the Cena match, which was the first match on Smackdown. There was a mass exodus after the Orton vs. Styles match and the live crowd was rather small and mostly dead for 205 Live.





> Smackdown opened on 3/4 in LaCrosse, WI before 3,900 fans. Cena, Nikki, Lynch (at UFC because her boyfriend, Luke Sanders, was fighting although she was advertised) and Orton were all not on the show but Lynch was the only one of that group advertised. Harper was also off the first show of the tour. Orton, Harper and Lynch were back for the second show on 3/5 in Rockford, which drew 3,600. 3/6 in Bloomington, IL, drew 3,000


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 3/14/17 Vs 3/7/17 ):
2.628M Vs 2.738M ( - 0.110M / - 4.03% )
0.890D Vs 0.890D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.628M Vs 3.232M ( - 0.604M / 81.31% )
0.890D Vs 1.133D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 3/14/17 Vs 3/17/16 ):
2.628M Vs 2.260M ( + 0.368M / + 16.28% )
0.890D Vs 0.680D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.260M Vs 3.458M ( - 1.198M / 65.36% )
0.680D Vs 1.277D

Note: SDL this week last year was 7th by demo & 7th by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

So AJ-Orton last week actually drew quite well.


----------



## NJPW316

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Smackdown is immensely superior to RAW. AJ Styles, Cena/Miz, and Orton/Wyatt are better than anything RAW has going.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 3/21/17 Vs 3/14/17 ):
2.647M Vs 2.628M ( + 0.019M / + 0.72% )
0.870D Vs 0.890D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.647M Vs 3.049M ( - 0.402M / 86.82% )
0.870D Vs 1.097D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 4th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 3/21/17 Vs 3/24/16 ):
2.647M Vs 2.501M ( + 0.146M / + 5.84% )
0.870D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.501M Vs 3.400M ( - 0.899M / 73.56% )
0.750D Vs 1.187D

Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 4th by viewership.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

2 weeks out from WM and in the mid 2's. 

WM SEASONS, brehs.

:lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Willing to bet this is the most profitable Wrestlemania in history though further solidifying that ratings mean fuck all.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Solid numbers, but they're not growing their viewer base in a time where they should be getting a lot closer to 3m.

They peaked at 2.9m for the wildcard episode and have a struggled to get close since.

Had they gone with Taker-Cena and AJ-Orton, that wouldn't have been a problem. I have no doubt they would have gotten close to 3m if not just above it.


----------



## JDP2016

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ShowStopper said:


> 2 weeks out from WM and in the mid 2's.
> 
> WM SEASONS, brehs.
> 
> :lmao :lmao :lmao



Hey. It's still better than RAW :justsayin



Erik. said:


> Willing to bet this is the most profitable Wrestlemania in history though further solidifying that ratings mean fuck all.


I've been seeing posts like this a lot. Why even have this and the RAW ratings thread?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



JDP2016 said:


> Hey. It's still better than RAW :justsayin
> 
> 
> 
> I've been seeing posts like this a lot. Why even have this and the RAW ratings thread?


Not by much, though. And certainly not ratings-wise.


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



JDP2016 said:


> I've been seeing posts like this a lot. Why even have this and the RAW ratings thread?


I agree. They are pointless cause they don't mean shit in 2017.


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Cool, expected SD to go down as well since that seems to be common, but the ratings actually (slightly) increased.


----------



## Dr. Middy

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Ratings will mean quite a bit when their current tv deal expires, and they have to take a much lower priced deal thanks to those falling ratings. You think that USA is just going to give WWE the same money contract as their last one with how WWE's tv is going? 

And with that new, lower priced deal will come a huge profit decline, so maybe they'll wake up a bit to that.


----------



## JDP2016

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



wwe9391 said:


> I agree. They are pointless cause they don't mean shit in 2017.


Didn't mean shit last year or before that.

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Further proves AJ-Orton drew well even with the short notice.

IIRC, it was announced on the Friday/Saturday on social media and was coming off a really bad Raw PPV and Raw.


----------



## wwf

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



JDP2016 said:


> Hey. It's still better than RAW :justsayin
> 
> 
> 
> I've been seeing posts like this a lot. Why even have this and the RAW ratings thread?


The real reason these threads exist is so the moaners can moan some more and continue to spew illogical rants.

Smackdown was 1st in demo and Raw is usually top 5. Those are the numbers that actually matter. Not the number of people watching.

Smackdown literally can't do better position wise. But somehow this translates to WWE being in trouble come contract renewal? LOL

USA is gonna be like "Hey WWE, I know you literally perform better than every other show but we're going to replace you with a show that has a worse demo rating and gives us less total profit from TV ads." Ridiculous logic.


----------



## The_Jiz

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

As funny as these threads are, its no comparison to the weekly ratings thread prior(the CM Punk era). With each passing thread with slight ratings decreases posters called for the end of the world. It was mass hysteria. Those threads would get massive amount of hits and stay current for the week. And I know the ratings threads are stickied now but its out of the way of current news and topics and the activity has been no where near as active as the yester years. IIRC these threads were to mitigate the insanity. I come in here monthly and see the same 10 posters taking turns shitting on their favorite wrestlers and generally whoever was main eventing that week.


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 3/21 did a 1.79 rating and 2,647,000 viewers (1.61 viewers per home, one of the biggest numbers in the last decade).
> 
> The show was fourth for the night on cable. What’s notable is the percentage of women viewers was extremely high, as males were only 55.2 percent in 18-49 and 56.6 percent in 12-17. So in the 18-49 demo, men were down nine percent from the prior week but women were up seven percent.
> 
> The show did a 0.65 in 12-17 (down 1.5 percent), 0.71 in 18-34 (up 1.4 percent), 1.03 in 35-49 (down 4.6 percent) and 1.10 in 50+ (down 0.9 percent).


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



> Smackdown on 3/21 did a 1.79 rating and 2,647,000 viewers* (1.61 viewers per home, one of the biggest numbers in the last decade)*.


 Good news, right?


----------



## Chrome

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The_Jiz said:


> As funny as these threads are, its no comparison to the weekly ratings thread prior(the CM Punk era). With each passing thread with slight ratings decreases posters called for the end of the world. It was mass hysteria. Those threads would get massive amount of hits and stay current for the week. And I know the ratings threads are stickied now but its out of the way of current news and topics and the activity has been no where near as active as the yester years. IIRC these threads were to mitigate the insanity. I come in here monthly and see the same 10 posters taking turns shitting on their favorite wrestlers and generally whoever was main eventing that week.


Yeah, back when Rock316AE used to get into in with the Punk marks. Good times, it was definitely the AE of the rating threads.


----------



## anirioc

*Why Smackdown´s ratings are so bad if the show is so good?*

Im not trolling, not at all i truly think SD is far better than RAW and even though is far from being a perfect show i still think since the brand split has been very good not to mention SD PPVs, full of quality matches so why the ratings continue to be so poor? and more important why RAW keeps getting better ratings if it´s so bad?

thoughts?


----------



## validreasoning

*Re: Why Smackdown´s ratings are so bad if the show is so good?*



anirioc said:


> Im not trolling, not at all i truly think SD is far better than RAW and even though is far from being a perfect show i still think since the brand split has been very good not to mention SD PPVs, full of quality matches so why the ratings continue to be so poor? and more important why RAW keeps getting better ratings if it´s so bad?
> 
> thoughts?


Raw is the flagship and has the advantage of being on first and many fans especially casuals are not going to tune into 3+ hours of raw every Monday then turn around and watch 2 more the next night. With so much thrown at you weekly people are going to choose and if the choice is between a show WWE has treated far more importantly for 20 years, the one where lesnar, taker, hhh, goldberg appears they will pick that.

Smackdowns numbers are far from poor though. In the 36 weeks since moving to Tuesdays they have finished:
#1..15 times
#2..11 times
#3..5 times

The only really times they fell out of top 3 were trumps sotu address the other week where obviously news channels topped the night, Obamas farewell in January again news channels beating them, election night in November ditto


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 3/28/17 Vs 3/21/17 ):
2.698M Vs 2.647M ( + 0.051M / + 1.93% )
0.860D Vs 0.870D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.698M Vs 3.292M ( - 0.594M / 81.96% )
0.860D Vs 1.177D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 3/28/17 Vs 3/31/16 ):
2.698M Vs 2.328M ( + 0.370M / + 15.89% )
0.860D Vs 0.690D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.328M Vs 3.724M ( - 1.396M / 62.51% )
0.690D Vs 1.350D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 2nd by viewership.
*


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 3/28, the final TV show before WrestleMania, did 2,698,000 viewers, which is within the usual recent range for the show, up two percent from the prior week.
> 
> Smackdown was fifth for the night on cable.
> 
> The show did a 0.75 in 12-17 (up 15.4 percent from last week), 0.27 in 18-34 (up 1.4 percent), 1.00 in 35-49 (down 2.9 percent) and 1.12 in 50+ (up 1.8 percent).


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 4/3/17 Vs 3/28/17 ):
2.885M Vs 2.698M ( + 0.187M / + 6.93% )
0.980D Vs 0.860D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.885M Vs 3.767M ( - 0.882M / 76.59% )
0.980D Vs 1.427D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 4/3/17 Vs 4/7/16 ):
2.885M Vs 2.444M ( + 0.441M / + 18.04% )
0.980D Vs 0.710D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.444M Vs 4.094M ( - 1.650M / 59.70% )
0.710D Vs 1.547D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 3rd by viewership.
*











JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *Viewership & demo ( 4/3/17 Vs 3/28/17 ):
> 2.885M Vs 2.698M ( + 0.187M / + 6.93% )
> 0.980D Vs 0.860D
> 
> SDL Vs RAW:
> 2.885M Vs 3.767M ( - 0.882M / 76.59% )
> 0.980D Vs 1.427D
> 
> Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Viewership & demo ( 4/3/17 Vs 4/7/16 ):
> 2.885M Vs 2.444M ( + 0.441M / + 18.04% )
> 0.980D Vs 0.710D
> 
> SDL Vs RAW:
> 2.444M Vs 4.094M ( - 1.650M / 59.70% )
> 0.710D Vs 1.547D
> 
> Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 3rd by viewership.
> *


*-SDL's 2nd highest viewership since The Draft's viewership (3.170M).

-Ties with the 12/27/16 episode's viewership of 2.885M which had beaten RAW's viewership (2.855M) the same week. 

-A potential 2.0+R or near 2.0R which has only been breached 2 other times besides/since The Draft. ( 12/27 SDL and Rumble SDL of 1/31) *


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Decent numbers, especially given that there was not too much hype around it.

This was still the first post-Mania show, though, so I expect numbers to go down next week.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 4/11/17 Vs 4/4/17 ):
3.105M Vs 2.885M ( + 0.220M / + 7.63% )
1.050D Vs 0.980D

SDL Vs RAW:
3.105M Vs 3.429M ( - 0.324M / 90.55% )
1.050D Vs 1.247D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 2nd by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 4/11/17 Vs 4/14/16 ):
3.105M Vs 2.355M ( + 0.750M / + 31.85% )
1.050D Vs 0.710D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.355M Vs 3.529M ( - 1.174M / 66.73% )
0.710D Vs 1.253D

Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 4th by viewership.
*


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *Viewership & demo ( 4/11/17 Vs 4/4/17 ):
> 3.105M Vs 2.885M ( + 0.220M / + 7.63% )
> 1.050D Vs 0.980D
> 
> SDL Vs RAW:
> 3.105M Vs 3.429M ( - 0.324M / 90.55% )
> 1.050D Vs 1.247D
> 
> Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 2nd by viewership.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Viewership & demo ( 4/11/17 Vs 4/14/16 ):
> 3.105M Vs 2.355M ( + 0.750M / + 31.85% )
> 1.050D Vs 0.710D
> 
> SDL Vs RAW:
> 2.355M Vs 3.529M ( - 1.174M / 66.73% )
> 0.710D Vs 1.253D
> 
> Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 4th by viewership.
> *


*-SDL's 2nd highest viewership since The Draft's viewership (3.170M) and potentially the 2nd highest rating too.

-Viewership breaches 3M for only the 2nd time since The Draft's viewership.

-2nd biggest year to year increase in viewership besides The Draft's increase in year to year viewership.*


----------



## chrispepper

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

3.1M??? Holy shit.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

3.1m HOLY SHIT :sodone


----------



## hazuki

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

AJ Styles *clap*


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



hazuki said:


> AJ Styles *clap*


 Nah, this was on the Superstar Shakeup.

I thought it would have been 2.8m at best. I'm shocked they broke 3m, that too without Cena.


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Seems like the Superstar Shakeup was quite the success. 

Nevertheless:


----------



## SWITCHBLADE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The mess that was the "Superstar Shakeup" worked I guess.


----------



## Y.2.J

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

3.1 million. HOLY CRAP!

Obviously the Superstar Shakeup has a lot to do with this but I never thought it would see a boost like that. You're almost reaching RAW numbers there. This is just proof that you don't need to advertise Undertaker and Edge appearances to get ratings. This shakeup gets people interesting and also I think people tuned in to see AJ, KO, Sami, New Day and Charlotte debut on SD.

Smackdown. AJ-KO-Sami show. :banderas


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Phenom. said:


> 3.1 million. HOLY CRAP!
> 
> Obviously the Superstar Shakeup has a lot to do with this but I never thought it would see a boost like that. You're almost reaching RAW numbers there. This is just proof that you don't need to advertise Undertaker and Edge appearances to get ratings. This shakeup gets people interesting and also I think people tuned in to see AJ, KO, Sami, New Day and Charlotte debut on SD.
> 
> Smackdown. AJ-KO-Sami show. :banderas


 Nakmaura is drawing fans too.

These are incredible numbers without Cena.


----------



## Reotor

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

This is entirely due to the draft, nothing to see here, move along.


----------



## chrispepper

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

People can say this is due to the draft but smackdown retained 91% of raws audience.. thats incredible.

Particularly for a show where Cena wasnt advertised.

People are really catching on about the quality of smackdown. Id be curious how many of these viewers actually only watched smackdown. Feels like it is really starting to build its own audience

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## Eliko

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

2 SD shows that Randy Orton is the WWE Champion, 2 great ratings. :mark:

The Most Watched Champion RKGOAT!


----------



## chronoxiong

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Wow at that rating! I'm impressed! The show is going to be run by Orton and AJ Styles and I can dig that! Wonder how many viewers will the show retain next week.


----------



## The Dazzler

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Holy shit at that rating. Next week's will be interesting.


----------



## wwetna1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



One Winged Angel said:


> Nakmaura is drawing fans too.
> 
> These are incredible numbers without Cena.


This what happens when the star of Raw walked in the building 










She was the biggest act drafted, not Owens or Ambrose, not Nakamura


----------



## Chrome

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Draft or not, that's an impressive rating for SDL. Let's see if they can maintain it in the weeks to come.


----------



## SWITCHBLADE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Reotor said:


> This is entirely due to the draft, nothing to see here, move along.


Exactly. At best, they should barely be getting slightly above their average going forward.


----------



## BeckyLynchFan29

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

nba playoffs start this weekend so look for both shows to take a hit in the ratings.


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Dam right the face that runs the place gives Smackdown their highest ratings.


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

That's a damn impressive number - but it was no doubt due to the shake up. They've only ever really got MASSIVE ratings from a Smackdown point of view three times since they went live and two of those shows now were because of some sort of draft and Raw involvement.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 4/18/17 Vs 4/11/17 ):
2.544M Vs 3.105M ( - 0.561M / - 18.07% )
0.810D Vs 1.050D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.544M Vs 3.346M ( - 0.802M / 76.03% )
0.810D Vs 1.190D

Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 6th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 4/18/17 Vs 4/21/16 ):
2.544M Vs 2.431M ( + 0.113M / + 4.65% )
0.810D Vs 0.730D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.431M Vs 3.336M ( - 0.905M / 72.87% )
0.730D Vs 1.190D

Note: SDL this week last year was 5th by demo & 4th by viewership.
*


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

NBA playoffs hit them HARD.


----------



## JC00

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



wwetna1 said:


> This what happens when the star of Raw walked in the building
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was the biggest act drafted, not Owens or Ambrose, not Nakamura


Still think so???


----------



## Duck_Beak

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Expected those numbers to be honest.


----------



## JC00

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Sweggeh said:


> NBA playoffs hit them HARD.


Not an excuse. Playoffs were on during Raw and it only dropped not even 100k from last week.


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Back to the norm following the superstar shake up.

Actually, maybe not. 2.5m seems less than usual.


----------



## SWITCHBLADE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

DA BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE SHOW.


----------



## kendalag

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

When 15 minutes into the show you're airing a title contender match with all those geeks, you can't be shocked that people said I'll watch NBA basketball instead.


----------



## NOCONTESTU

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

That's below their average right?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SMOKED.

:ha


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Decent number considering the competition (NBA and NHL playoffs) and expected drop off from the shake up episode.

2.4-2.5m is the average they usually do, for them to get 2.5m with the competition is a win in my books.

Not like you can expect them to retain as much as Raw when you're not giving them good segments to book.

The whole Roman beat down and ring collapsing are better than anything SD has ever been given since the split.


----------



## Little Miss Ingobernable

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

All I ever hear is how "great" Smackdown is and with the way people hype it up, you'd think they would surpass Raw every week by a landslide. 














Nope. :aj3


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



HerNotThem said:


> All I ever hear is how "great" Smackdown is and with the way people hype it up, you'd think they would surpass Raw every week by a landslide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. :aj3


 Both shows are shit because they're controlled by the same senile old man.

But it's flawed to think quality = ratings.


----------



## God Movement

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Holy shit


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

That's a huge drop.


----------



## Brodus Clay

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Orton reign, obvious drop.


----------



## NOCONTESTU

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Not surprised.


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

A roster full of geeks, minus AJ. How surprising.


----------



## SWITCHBLADE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Raw-Is-Botchamania said:


> A roster full of geeks, minus AJ. How surprising.


Besides AJ and no Shinsuke, it was a veritable "who's that" of superstars.


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 4/18 did a huge decline from Superstar shake-up week, falling 18 percent from the second best week of the new format.
> 
> There was going to be a drop no matter what, but the 2,544,000 viewers were below the 2.7 to 2.8 million the show had been doing.
> 
> The show placed sixth for the night on cable, with the Chicago Bulls vs. Boston Celtics NBA playoff game on TNT doing 3,368,000 viewers head-to-head.
> 
> The show did a 0.64 in 12-17 (down 15.8 percent), 0.70 in 18-34 (down 18.6 percent), 0.92 in 35-49 (down 25.8 percent) and 0.95 in 50+ (down 22.1 percent).


----------



## Lothario

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Personally, my genuine favorites are now on RAW and so I've left with them. Not really interested in SD anymore enough to watch it live and considering the significant drop off, it appears others may feel the same. Oh well. AJ is "The Face That Runs (and built) The Place" single handindly according to most of you and according to at least one guy in here, Charlotte Flair is the *true* star of the shakeup so good luck with that. :lol Randy as WWE champion and no Cena won't help. Maybe the Jinder shock will momentarily boost things but I believe it's downhill from here. SD may be credited as the "wrestling show" now but ditching your "inferior" promo guys and characters will bite you in the ass sooner than later in this business and the ratings will reflect that heading forward. 

KO has his hands full.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Lothario said:


> Personally, my genuine favorites are now on RAW and so I've left with them. Not really interested in SD anymore enough to watch it live and considering the significant drop off, it appears others may feel the same. Oh well. AJ is "The Face That Runs (and built) The Place" single handindly according to most of you and according to at least one guy in here, Charlotte Flair is the *true* star of the shakeup so good luck with that. :lol Randy as WWE champion and no Cena won't help. Maybe the Jinder shock will momentarily boost things but I believe it's downhill from here. SD may be credited as the "wrestling show" now but ditching your "inferior" promo guys and characters will bite you in the ass sooner than later in this business and the ratings will reflect that heading forward.
> 
> KO has his hands full.


 You do realize this number is more or less the number they were doing before WM season? :lol

People are jumping the gun, you would expect them to go back to the 2.5m range once WM was over. Especially when SD has such a shitshow at WM and are headlining with Orton vs a jobber.

I'm surprised they managed to get 2.5m with that much competition and such a weak number 1 contenders match.


----------



## Lothario

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



One Winged Angel said:


> *You do realize this number is more or less the number they were doing before WM season? :lol
> *
> People are jumping the gun, you would expect them to go back to the 2.5m range once WM was over. Especially when SD has such a shitshow at WM and are headlining with Orton vs a jobber.
> 
> I'm surprised they managed to get 2.5m with that much competition and such a weak number 1 contenders match.


I'll see you in three weeks.


----------



## IEatFatKidz

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Orton, Aj and a bunch of jobbers. Bye Bye smackdown ratings


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Terrible rating.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 4/25/17 Vs 4/18/17 ):
2.493M Vs 2.544M ( - 0.051M / - 2.00% )
0.750D Vs 0.810D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.493M Vs 3.007M ( - 0.514M / 82.91% )
0.750D Vs 1.030D

Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 6th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 4/25/17 Vs 4/28/16 ):
2.493M Vs 2.109M ( + 0.384M / + 18.21% )
0.750D Vs 0.640D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.109M Vs 3.128M ( - 1.019M / 67.42% )
0.730D Vs 1.190D

Note: SDL this week last year was 7th by demo & 4th by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

This show is stuck in the retain 80% of RAW. I don't see it ever regularly exceeding RAW as SDL is basically the fourth and fifth hour of RAW and this week, neither show was good, so it's quite a slog for viewers.


----------



## ecclesiastes10

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

totally gonna beat raw in the ratings...only a matter of time now....


----------



## JC00

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Weird. I was told yesterday by some that a show that had AJ and advertised Nakamura and Charlotte would be closer to Raw's rating Monday than SD's rating last week.


----------



## SWITCHBLADE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

But I thought people said "Smackdown is the real A-show"?


----------



## validreasoning

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

So four months into the year. As of right now smackdown is running about 9% ahead of where it was same period a year ago and raw is about 10% down in terms of live viewers

Raw averaged 3.585 million viewers live for the first 17 weeks of 2016 (January through April)
Raw averaged 3.234 million viewers live same period in 2017

Smackdown averaged 2.447 million viewers first 17 weeks of 2016
Smackdown has averaged 2.677 million viewers same period in 2017

I don't have figures for early 2016 but USA was in 95.6 million homes in July 2015 and 91.4 million as of March 2017 so a potential loss of 4.5% of audience


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Yikes. Brutal number, even worse than last week. Not good.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Won't beat RAW in the ratings but still managed to be the better show, yet neither was anything to write home about.


----------



## ShadowSucks92

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Rainmaka! said:


> But I thought people said "Smackdown is the real A-show"?


That went out the window when they had AJ lose the WWE Title, just gone downhill ever since.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Bad number, fans have picked up this is filler time and things won't pick up till a month out from Summerslam.


----------



## joesmith

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Come on now guys its no secret Smackdown is the B show it even calls itself the land of opportunity now, I mean just look at the superstar shakeup for evidence here

Wyatt, Ambrose, Miz, and Bliss to Raw that was pretty much Smackdown's best people and who does Smackdown get in return Kevin Owens, Charlotte, Sami Zayn all good talented performers though they all have done pretty much all they could at the current moment on Raw pretty much they were stale or getting stale

Smackdown is the B show aka Land of Opportunity or whatever you want to call it 

and I still don't ever think we will see AJ Styles the champ on Raw I'm just seeing , him being a TNA guy an all


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

TBH I only watch what AJ is doing on smackdown now and Naka to an extent


----------



## JDP2016

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



joesmith said:


> Come on now guys its no secret Smackdown is the B show it even calls itself the land of opportunity now, I mean just look at the superstar shakeup for evidence here
> 
> Wyatt, Ambrose, Miz, and Bliss to Raw that was pretty much Smackdown's best people and who does Smackdown get in return Kevin Owens, Charlotte, Sami Zayn all good talented performers though they all have done pretty much all they could at the current moment on Raw pretty much they were stale or getting stale
> 
> Smackdown is the B show aka Land of Opportunity or whatever you want to call it
> 
> and I still don't ever think we will see AJ Styles the champ on Raw I'm just seeing , him being a TNA guy an all


Smackdown has always been the land of opportunity. It's been called that since the first episode after the draft.


----------



## joesmith

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



JDP2016 said:


> Smackdown has always been the land of opportunity. It's been called that since the first episode after the draft.


Ok so what's your point it's still clearly the B show because as soon as someone starts killing it on Smackdown

(Miz, Ambrose, Wyatt, Bliss) they will get shipped off to Raw and as soon as big name people start getting Stale 

on Raw they get shipped off to Smackdown ( Charlotte, Owens, Zayn, New Day)


I'm not saying I have a problem with Smackdown being the land of opportunity I'm just saying they pretty now 

even admit to it being the B show I mean this weeks Raw vs this Smackdown I rest my case


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



IDONTSHIV FOREVER said:


> This show is stuck in the retain 80% of RAW. I don't see it ever regularly exceeding RAW as SDL is basically the fourth and fifth hour of RAW and this week, neither show was good, so it's quite a slog for viewers.


 How is Thursday for TV ratings? They'd be better off having a bigger gap in between the shows otherwise you're picking most fans to choose. It's a slog to get through 5 hrs of WWE over two nights.


----------



## MOBELS

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Ratings will keep dropping if they continue to use nothing but jobbers on TV. Last night had a total of 4 rematches from last week and had a filler match in Breezango v The Ascension. It was easily the worst Smackdown since the split and the week before wasn't any better. 

They're not going to keep viewers by pushing jobbers out of the blue nor will they keep watching if the feuds are stagnant and boring like every single one we have now is. Only Orton and AJ Styles will attract viewers on this show, however they're surrounded by jobbers besides Nakamura and Kevin Owens.

They're expecting to get viewers to watch 1 1/2 hours of jobbers before getting AJ or Orton which is why the ratings will keep on dropping until they move more people over from RAW. There is 0 depth on this brand none at all. 

Backlash is shaping up to be even worse and it wouldn't surprise me if it's the lowest watches PPV on the network of all time.


----------



## Kratosx23

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Ha, the worst audience of the year. Can't imagine why. 

Looks like the fans are super into hindering Jinder.


----------



## God Movement

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Get the title off Orton immediately. This can't go on any longer.


----------



## Lothario

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Just a combination of things and bad moves. They really fumbled the shake up and I can't put into words how heinous of an idea it was to put the belt on Orton. He's dull beyond words and they went for the shock for shits and giggles and are rightfully receiving their just reward. With Ambrose gone, I personally have no reason to watch currently. Dean. Sasha. Braun. Alexa. Wyatt. Even Miz (who I feel is overrated but is easily more compelling than anything currently on SD.) All on RAW. AJ is cool but I never bought into the notion of him being the be all, end all of SD. Given these numbers, neither did the audience at large. 

People can say what they will but Vince definitely nuked and sabotaged this roster. Him throwing a guy who hasn't won three matches in a year into the top title hunt overnight was silly, too. Ratings will continue to plummet and it's actually sad to see them slowly begin to undo what good they had did. It was a slow process but it's a marathon, not a sprint. They're going backwards now and it's unfortunate. With no Cena for the foreseeable future, it's going to get ugly but by all means, keep hope alive. :lol


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Lothario said:


> Just a combination of things and bad moves. They really fumbled the shake up and I can't put into words how heinous of an idea it was to put the belt on Orton. He's dull beyond words and they went for the shock for shits and giggles and are rightfully receiving their just reward. With Ambrose gone, I personally have no reason to watch currently. Dean. Sasha. Braun. Alexa. Wyatt. Even Miz (who I feel is overrated but is easily more compelling than anything currently on SD.) All on RAW. AJ is cool but I never bought into the notion of him being the be all, end all of SD. Given these numbers, neither did the audience at large.
> 
> People can say what they will but Vince definitely nuked and sabotaged this roster. Him throwing a guy who hasn't won three matches in a year into the top title hunt overnight was silly, too. Ratings will continue to plummet and it's actually sad to see them slowly begin to undo what good they had did. It was a slow process but it's a marathon, not a sprint. They're going backwards now and it's unfortunate. With no Cena for the foreseeable future, it's going to get ugly but by all means, keep hope alive. :lol


 Orton is feuding with a jobber, AJ is killing time in the midcard, Nakamura is killing time till Cena at Summerslam and AJ at WM and Cena isn't there.

Then there's the middle finger SD received at WM with Bray-Orton "main eventing WM", AJ wasting one of his WM matches with Shane in the WM opener, Cena and Miz wasted in a mix tag and Ambrose on the pre show.

The only big match which was advertised heavily was Bray-Orton and they cut the match time down :lmao

Raw had 3 matches which were featured far more heavily than Bray-Orton (SD's main event and supposed WM main event).


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 4/25 did a 1.71 rating and 2,493,000 viewers (1.60 viewers per home), a one percent ratings drop and two percent audience droip and the lowest in each category since 12/13, or just before the return of John Cena.
> 
> The big culprit was NBA Playoffs, a Houston Rockets vs. Oklahoma City Thunder game, which did 4,145,000 viewers, up from the playoff game doing 3,368,000 head-to-head the week before, which is likely the full explanation for the drop.
> 
> The playoffs led to a major departure of male viewers, as the male skew was only 54.7 percent in 18-49 and 58.7 percent in 12-17.
> 
> Smackdown was sixth for the night on cable.
> 
> The show did a 0.57 in 12-17 (down 10.9 percent), 0.63 in 18-34 (down 10.0 percent), 0.87 in 35-49 (down 5.4 percent) and 1.09 in 50+ (up 14.7 percent).


----------



## Clique

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



MOBELS said:


> Ratings will keep dropping if they continue to use nothing but jobbers on TV. Last night had a total of 4 rematches from last week and had a filler match in Breezango v The Ascension. It was easily the worst Smackdown since the split and the week before wasn't any better.
> 
> They're not going to keep viewers by pushing jobbers out of the blue nor will they keep watching if the feuds are stagnant and boring like every single one we have now is. Only Orton and AJ Styles will attract viewers on this show, however they're surrounded by jobbers besides Nakamura and Kevin Owens.
> 
> They're expecting to get viewers to watch 1 1/2 hours of jobbers before getting AJ or Orton which is why the ratings will keep on dropping until they move more people over from RAW. There is 0 depth on this brand none at all.
> 
> Backlash is shaping up to be even worse and it wouldn't surprise me if it's the lowest watches PPV on the network of all time.


Solution to this problem is to END this stupid brand split and don't bring it back until there are actually legit superstars to justify having two touring rosters that run 2-3 hour TV shows every week and exclusive PPVs every month. The competition in the championship divisions are laughably thin. Raw and SD need more star power and WWE needs more options for angles/feuds that weak ass "shake-ups" are not gonna fix.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Clique said:


> Solution to this problem is END this stupid brand split and don't bring it back until there are actually legit superstars to justify having two touring rosters that have 2-3 hour TV shows every week and its own PPV every month. Raw and SD need more star power and WWE need more options for angles/feuds that weak ass "shake-ups" are not gonna fix.


 If they promoted most of NXT (Roode, Cien, Black, Drew, Sanity, DIY, AoP, Asuka etc. ), I think both brands could thrive. But we all know that won't happen because doofus son in law wants to play indy promoter at the expense of the acutal product...


----------



## Flying High Now

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Clique said:


> Solution to this problem is to END this stupid brand split and don't bring it back until there are actually legit superstars to justify having two touring rosters that run 2-3 hour TV shows every week and exclusive PPVs every month. The competition in the championship divisions are laughably thin. Raw and SD need more star power and WWE needs more options for angles/feuds that weak ass "shake-ups" are not gonna fix.


Main roster is too huge to get rid of the brand split and it would actually make the problem worse like it was in 2015. The solution as I see it would be for them to better utilize the stars they already have which requires better writing.


----------



## Clique

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Flying High Now said:


> Main roster is too huge to get rid of the brand split and it would actually make the problem worse like it was in 2015. The solution as I see it would be for them to better utilize the stars they already have which requires better writing.


I'm looking at the tag team, women's, and main event picture and I'm not seeing the depth in the roster. I'm not seeing the level of star power to give a damn about the Backlash PPV, even less for weekly SmackDowns. There's plenty of nobodies and underdeveloped characters. WWE needs more stars and variety on these shows. These rosters are Saturday Night Velocity level in terms of star power. I do agree the writing from the top to each and every division needs more focus. I want to be excited to watch this entire 2-3 hour program every week.


----------



## Flying High Now

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Clique said:


> I'm looking at the tag team, women's, and main event picture and I'm not seeing the depth in the roster. I'm not seeing the level of star power to give a damn about the Backlash PPV, even less for weekly SmackDowns. There's plenty of nobodies and underdeveloped characters. WWE needs more stars and variety on these shows. These rosters are Saturday Night Velocity level in terms of star power. I do agree the writing from the top to each and every division needs more focus. I want to be excited to watch this entire 2-3 hour program every week.


It's true that with over 100 wrestlers, there can't be just 5 authentic top draws and they do need more top superstars but the main reason they don't have many is because they are not utilizing their roster to the fullest potential which is where the storytelling comes in. I feel that's the reason they don't have many stars because most of the characters on the roster aren't given even a fraction of the consideration that Reigns' does and thus are treated like filler.


----------



## V-Trigger

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

"They will watch anyway with Jinder in the Main Event"


----------



## JC00

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

2.3 million this week


----------



## The Dazzler

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I see on another site that they say it's the worst number since September 20, 2016? :bryan2


----------



## God Movement

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

:duck

The A show.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

No surprise. This show doesn't have unique viewers from RAW. Monday night was a poor rating and set the table for this. No matter the quality, and SDL was the superior show, they just can't break out of their hovering around 80% retention of RAW's audience. The song simply remains the same.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 5/2/17 Vs 4/25/17 ):
2.300M Vs 2.493M ( - 0.193M / - 7.74% )
0.750D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.300M Vs 2.871M ( - 0.571M / 80.11% )
0.750D Vs 1.007D

Note: SDL is 4th by demo & 4th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 5/2/17 Vs 5/5/16 ):
2.300M Vs 2.346M ( - 0.046M / - 1.96% )
0.750D Vs 0.710D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.346M Vs 3.433M ( - 0.987M / 68.34% )
0.710D Vs 1.227D

Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 4th by viewership.*


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The problem is not that Jinder Mahal, that geek women stable and Breezango are taking up so much time. The problem is that you cannot randomly put those guys in prominent spots and expect people to believe that they have a chance. Jinder was constantly jobbing for months, Tyler was running around with a wig and tapping out to Nikki Bella (ffs) a few weeks ago and that stable is basically made up of all the leftovers who were booked the worst since the brand split. And all of a sudden, they are treated as serious threats (maybe Breezango not as much, given that their segment was quite funny). That's bullshit.

NBA (going OT) definitely had an impact, but these numbers still are horrible. Those are pre-brand split numbers.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Dazzler said:


> I see on another site that they say it's the worst number since September 20, 2016? :bryan2


*9/20/16 - 2.292M
10/25/16 - 2.127M
11/1/16 - 2.187M
11/8/16 - 1.921M

5th lowest since The Draft.*


----------



## JDP2016

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Those are great numbers. Look forward to next week. [emoji38]

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## BeckyLynchFan29

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

that what happens when you have a jobber as your #1 contender for the World Title.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



BeckyLynchFan29 said:


> that what happens when you have a jobber as your #1 contender for the World Title.


No, that's what happens when the product as a whole has been shit for years.


----------



## chrispepper

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The Jinder decision looks worse every week..


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



500 - Internal server error said:


> No, that's what happens when the product as a whole has been shit for years.


Truest thing I've read today.


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

:lmao


----------



## Lothario

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Better than I expected, I thought it would have been closer to 2m tbh. 

Show has been weak since Royal Rumble/ER, and the last two weeks have been terrible filler eps.

Tbf, this weeks episode was great IMO.



chrispepper said:


> The Jinder decision looks worse every week..


 Not all on Jinder, the show has been shit for months now. This week's episode was the first time I've really enjoyed the show in a long time.


----------



## volde

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Yeah, lets blame Jinder when show was built around KO/Jericho.


----------



## Randy Lahey

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



DoubtGin said:


> The problem is not that Jinder Mahal, that geek women stable and Breezango are taking up so much time. The problem is that you cannot randomly put those guys in prominent spots and expect people to believe that they have a chance. Jinder was constantly jobbing for months, Tyler was running around with a wig and tapping out to Nikki Bella (ffs) a few weeks ago and that stable is basically made up of all the leftovers who were booked the worst since the brand split. And all of a sudden, they are treated as serious threats (maybe Breezango not as much, given that their segment was quite funny). That's bullshit.
> 
> NBA (going OT) definitely had an impact, but these numbers still are horrible. Those are pre-brand split numbers.


Those are taped show numbers. For a live show. Absolutely disasterous.


----------



## joesmith

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Well is anyone surprised numbers are down Raw took most of Smackdown's biggest draws (Miz, Ambrose, Bliss, and Wyatt) and really only added Kevin Owens ( Ambrose and Miz are bigger draws ) and Charlotte , lets be real Sami Zayn is not a draw yet

though Jericho was a nice addition


----------



## Will Thompson

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



joesmith said:


> Well is anyone surprised numbers are down Raw took most of Smackdown's biggest draws (Miz, Ambrose, Bliss, and Wyatt) and really only added Kevin Owens ( Ambrose and Miz are bigger draws ) and Charlotte , lets be real Sami Zayn is not a draw yet
> 
> though Jericho was a nice addition


 Gotta agree with this. After the superstar shakeup, one couldn't help but wonder if Smackdown had gotten the short end of the stick. I looked at the rosters post the shakeup and felt Smackdown had a major shortage of recognizable draws in the main event. With their biggest draw in Cena unavailable, AJ in the mid card and Ambrose (Despite question marks over how committed he is, you can't deny he was one of the most over characters on Smackdown, if not the WWE), Bray and Miz gone (Each of those 3 were over with the fans and were consistently involved in the top feuds for Smackdown since the brand split), were who they got in return enough to draw in the casuals? Orton is Orton and quite frankly, in this day and age not many want him as the lynchpin of the show and his feuds have been largely meh.

If you look at the top trades on the men's side, Raw took most of the best talkers from Smackdown and of the ones they got in return, you could only say Kevin Owens comes close to the mic work of Ambrose, Miz and Bray Wyatt. Having good in-ring workers is great, but you need good talkers to keep the audience invested in the feuds before the actual payoff match happens at the PPV. Does Smackdown (at the moment) have enough of those?

Of course Smackdown hasn't been helped with the no of top talents who are missing either due to injuries or other reasons. The likes of Cena, New Day, Rusev, Lana, Nikki and now Jericho when available are big draws (generally speaking) and can be easily put into top feuds that the fans (Esp casuals) would want to watch.

As others have pointed out though, in their absence the creative needed to come up with ideas and feuds that the fans could relate to. It is really hard to take the likes of Jinder (Who had been jobbing over the last 9-10 months) as a challenger to Orton. Then you look at the Tag title scene and their are no serious challengers to the USOS now that the creative have completely halted the momentum of AA. On the women's side, Charlotte is just so far ahead of the rest of the women bar Becky that it is hard to get invested in any women's feuds.

Nakamura is perhaps the biggest attraction for Smackdown at the moment and I think limiting his appearances (And matches) is in all likelihood going to help him (And Smackdown and WWE as a whole) more in the long term even though Smackdown could use his presence in a feud for the US or WWE title.

I do understand that their are similar problems on the Raw side (Esp wrt the tag and women's divisions), but despite Lesnar holding the title hostage, they have more than enough stars that the fans want to watch. With the Shield trio, Strowman being booked as a monster, likes of Balor, Joe and Miz involved in some of the top feuds on Raw, not to mention the Hardyz, it isn't hard to see which show the casuals would like to watch more at the moment.

It is good to say that Smackdown is the "Land of Opportunity", but you simply can't push people who have been jobbing regularly into the top feuds and expect the fans to care about them right away. You need to build people back up over a decent period of time before they can be put into the top feuds as challengers to their main stars.

I was worried Smackdown could bleed viewers in the first few weeks while they took their time establishing some of the superstars. They are losing viewers for sure, but I don't know if they are building superstars in the right way. Things should get better once some of the missing stars are back in action over the next month or two, but I hope the damage done before those returns isn't so bad that a significant gap appears between Raw and Smackdown and the latter ends up becoming THE B show in the eyes of most fans again.


----------



## The XL 2

The business is not in a healthy state, and the bottom could easily fall out under the WWE if USA decided that their would be cheaper television to produce that could garner compatible ratings.


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 5/2 did its lowest number since moving to Tuesday with the exception of Election Night, with 2,300,000 viewers going against a Boston Celtics vs. Washington Wizards NBA playoff game that did 4,832,000 viewers.
> 
> The show was down eight percent from the prior week, but almost all the drop was with viewers over the age of 50, unlike on Raw where the big drop was among teenagers.
> 
> The show did a 0.56 in 12-17 (down 1.8 percent from the prior week), 0.64 in 18-34 (up 1.6 percent), 0.86 in 35-49 (down 1.1 percent) and 0.94 in 50+ (down 13.8 percent).
> 
> The audience was 55.7 percent male in 18-49 and 57.5 percent male in 12-17.


----------



## validreasoning

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



> Smackdown on 5/2 did its lowest number since moving to Tuesday with the exception of Election Night


Not correct, there were are number of shows in september/october 2016 that did lower.


----------



## The_Jiz

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SDL deserves to be shit canned for this Jinder push. 

Its not about preference or taste. Hot shoting a jobber into the world title contendership is a weak flimsy horrid story telling error no matter how one could twist it and has set the tone for the rest of the brand.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

This upcoming rating is going to be brutal.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 5/9/17 Vs 5/2/17 ):
2.348M Vs 2.300M ( + 0.048M / + 2.09% )
0.740D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.348M Vs 2.696M ( - 0.348M / 87.09% )
0.740D Vs 0.927D

Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 11th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 5/9/17 Vs 5/12/16 ):
2.348M Vs 2.262M ( + 0.086M / + 3.80% )
0.740D Vs 0.670D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.262M Vs 3.238M ( - 0.976M / 69.86% )
0.710D Vs 1.130D

Note: SDL this week last year was 5th by demo & 5th by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

LMAO viewership was actually up :lmao

Those are fantastic numbers up against a great 5th Spurs-Rockets game.


----------



## Demolition119

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

not as bad as I was expecting it to be. :bjpenn


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SDL rises.


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Smackdown is rebounding. Putting Jinder in the main event is clearly paying off.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Raw only drawing 400,000 more viewers than SD Live :lmao

Has less stars, have their biggest star out and were up against a much stronger NBA match up :lmao


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



wwe9391 said:


> Taped Raws man. That will give you those number.
> 
> Smackdowns are gonna be much worse.


 :kobelol

SD was up against a much stronger NBA match for both hrs :ha


----------



## Gravyv321

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

"but....but.....but aj is killing SD cuz he's da failure." 

LMFAO thats like a 'retard' statement xD


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

RAW is too much of a drag on SDL. Time to cancel that beta show.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Gravyv321 said:


> "but....but.....but aj is killing SD cuz he's da failure."
> 
> LMFAO thats like a 'retard' statement xD


 AJ isn't in a position to draw.

The rating's bad, but it looks like gold next to Raw's shit house numbers. But that's to be expected with Raw's stars gone.


----------



## Soul Man Danny B

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Gravyv321 said:


> "but....but.....but aj is killing SD cuz he's da failure."
> 
> LMFAO thats like a 'retard' statement xD


Yep. If anything, AJ is one of the few reasons to watch SD.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Soul Man Danny B said:


> Yep. If anything, AJ is one of the few reasons to watch SD.


 Take away two of AJ, Orton or KO, and the show would be doing mid 1m every week.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

87% is a bit higher RAW retention than usual. I expected much worse, so this would qualify as a decent number.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



IDONTSHIV FOREVER said:


> 87% is a bit higher RAW retention than usual. I expected much worse, so this would qualify as a decent number.


 No Cena and a jobber in the main event :ha

Imagine how close they would have gotten if Cena, Jericho and RuRu were around, and had a strong main event program.


----------



## God Movement

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Amazing numbers. Smackdown is the A show!


----------



## chronoxiong

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Lol viewership was actually up from last week. Looks like that viewership is nearly identical to this week's RAW third hour. Lol. Crazy.


----------



## wwe9391

One Winged Angel said:


> SD was up against a much stronger NBA match for both hrs


Raw still had more and it was taped :ha


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



wwe9391 said:


> Raw still had more and it was taped :ha


 Because SD wasn't taped and against a game which drew 5m across both hrs? :lol


----------



## wwe9391

One Winged Angel said:


> Because SD wasn't taped and against a game which drew 5m across both hrs? :lol


Raw still had more :ha 


Come at me when they beat raw three weeks in a row


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



wwe9391 said:


> Raw still had more and it was taped :ha


SDL was taped too. It's a Jinder miracle.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



wwe9391 said:


> Raw still had more :ha
> 
> 
> Come at me when they beat raw three weeks in a row


 No excuses for Roman this week, fans knew he would appear and the numbers dropped to record lows :ha

Raw wasn't up against an NBA game in the first hr, and the two hrs it was, it was against a boring, one sided Jazz ass whipping :lol


----------



## wwe9391

One Winged Angel said:


> No excuses for Roman this week, fans knew he would appear and the numbers dropped to record lows


Actually fans didn't know he would be there he wasn't advertised :draper2

Still better than smackdowns ratings and always will be :lol


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



wwe9391 said:


> Actually fans didn't know he would be there he wasn't advertised :draper2
> 
> Still better than smackdowns ratings and always will be :lol


 SD is drawing similar numbers without John fucking Cena and Jinder Mahal in the main event :ha

The Roman Reigns show even with all the smoke and mirrors around his feuds is tanking and seems to be setting new records every week :reigns2


----------



## God Movement

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

:kobelol


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



wwe9391 said:


> Raw still had more :ha
> 
> 
> Come at me when they beat raw three weeks in a row


RAW has every advantage. It's the flagship show, has the built in advantages stemming from that and goes first. SDL is treated like the red headed stepchild in WWE. Meanwhile RAW starts at third base and you pretend like it hit a triple. Of course RAW has more viewers. It would be news if it didn't.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Having 400,000 more viewers than the B show which is on the next night and is missing a lot of their stars NOTHING to be proud of.

Jinder fucking Mahal is in the main event program for crying out loud :lmao

You Reigns' marks need to :sit


----------



## wwe9391

One Winged Angel said:


> SD is drawing similar numbers without John fucking Cena and Jinder Mahal in the main event


 And yet still can't beat Raw :ha


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



wwe9391 said:


> And yet still can't beat Raw :ha


 SD apparently got wrecked in the shake up and are missing a lot of their stars. They have an excuse for putting up poor numbers. 

What's Raw's excuse?

A rejected top babyface or their only draw never being there? :reigns2


----------



## Arsenal79

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Where are the haters now? Clearly The MAHARAJA is bringing the ratings!


----------



## wwe9391

One Winged Angel said:


> SD apparently got wrecked in the shake up and are missing a lot of their stars. They have an excuse for putting up poor numbers.
> 
> What's Raw's excuse?
> 
> A rejected top babyface or their only draw never being there?


Neither. It was a taped Raw and had NBA competition and it still beat Smackdown. :lol


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



wwe9391 said:


> Neither. It was a taped Raw and had NBA competition and it still beat Smackdown. :lol


 You're making yourself look like a fool.

SD was taped as well and was up against game 5 between Spurs-Rockers fpalm

That game had a million more viewers than the Warrirors-Jazz, which finished 4-0 in a boring sweep.


----------



## The_Jiz

wwe9391 said:


> Raw still had more :ha
> 
> Come at me when they beat raw three weeks in a row


:ha
I really doubt even then you'd admit defeat. A poster already quoted you DEAD wrong about this weeks number saying it would get wrecked. Not only did that not happen it actually went up. 

When SDL does beat Raw 3 weeks in a row what're going to say? Raw had overall better ratings than SDL's overall in its history? 

And talk about cutting off the nose to spite the face. You're the #1 delusional wwe mark on this forum and you'd rather SDL suffer so you can throw it back in the smarks faces. Yea people could be doing better things with their time then complain online but you're literally online to attack other people for complaining.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The_Jiz said:


> :ha
> I really doubt even then you'd admit defeat. A poster already quoted you DEAD wrong about this weeks number saying it would get wrecked. Not only did that not happen it actually went up.
> 
> When SDL does beat Raw 3 weeks in a row what're going to say? Raw had overall better ratings than SDL's overall in its history?
> 
> And talk about cutting off the nose to spite the face. You're the #1 delusional wwe mark on this forum and you'd rather SDL suffer so you can throw it back in the smarks faces. Yea people could be doing better things with their time then complain online but you're literally online to attack other people for complaining.


 He's a troll account.

Dude has AJ listed as his favorite yet celebrates when SD does poorly and posts on Roman non stop :lmao

He even rips on AJ not being able to draw despite not being put into a position to and frequently rips on AJ not main eventing WM while Roman has three main events already (means shit, being able to main event means Vince likes you more than anything).

I wish the mods would ban this troll already. Fair enough defending Roman, but please don't pretend to be a fan of someone else to cover yourself from being a Roman fantard/WWE mark whose sole purpose is to defend them.


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



One Winged Angel said:


> You're making yourself look like a fool.


Coming from the kid.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



wwe9391 said:


> Coming from the kid.


 Coming from someone who fakes being a mark for someone :lol

But go on and enlighten me, an accounting grad, on the WWE's record revenue :kobelol


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The_Jiz said:


> :ha
> I really doubt even then you'd admit defeat. A poster already quoted you DEAD wrong about this weeks number saying it would get wrecked. Not only did that not happen it actually went up.
> 
> When SDL does beat Raw 3 weeks in a row what're going to say? Raw had overall better ratings than SDL's overall in its history?
> .


Yea and I was wrong about that. Hates off to SD. Im man enough to admit when Im wrong unlike some on here. And if SDL does beat Raw 3 weeks in a row ill will gladly take my hat off and say well done.


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



One Winged Angel said:


> Coming from someone who fakes being a mark for someone :lol


Do I need to post the photo I took with AJ at WM axxess who I chose over Roman Reigns to meet?


----------



## JDP2016

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

These ratings threads are a guaranteed laugh every week. I wonder what is the age of some of these posters. If any of you are over the age of 25 and American, then I weep for this nation of ours.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



One Winged Angel said:


> Coming from someone who fakes being a mark for someone :lol
> 
> But go on and enlighten me, an accounting grad, on the WWE's record revenue :kobelol


He's a rejoiner, former name Stone Hot. Look him up. His posting style hasn't changed.


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 5/9, even though taped, did about the same numbers as the week before with a 1.60 rating and 2,348,000 viewers (1.60 viewers per home). The rating was down one percent from last week and the total audience was up two percent. It was the lowest rated Smackdown of the year, and second least watched episode.
> 
> The biggest competition was Game Five of the Houston Rockets vs. San Antonio Spurs that did 4,713,000 viewers, as compared to 4,832,000 for the game the prior week.
> 
> Smackdown was 11th for the night on cable.
> 
> The show did a 0.51 in 12-17 (down 8.9 percent from last week), 0.65 in 18-34 (up 1.6 percent), 0.83 in 35-49 (down 3.5 percent) and 0.99 in 50+ (up 5.3 percent).
> 
> The audience was 56.8 percent male in 18-49 and 55.2 percent male in 12-17.


----------



## volde

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Weird that being tapped show didn't hurt SD at all while it supposedly destroyed RAW's ratings.


----------



## fabi1982

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I think a good show should get good ratings, so I guess thats what happened here?!


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 5/16/17 Vs 5/9/17 ):
2.175M Vs 2.348M ( - 0.173M / - 7.37% )
0.680D Vs 0.740D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.175M Vs 2.751M ( - 0.576M / 79.06% )
0.680D Vs 0.973D

Note: SDL is 4th by demo & 10th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 5/16/17 Vs 5/19/16 ):
2.175M Vs 2.295M ( - 0.120M / - 5.23% )
0.680D Vs 0.700D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.295M Vs 3.191M ( - 0.896M / 71.92% )
0.700D Vs 1.087D

Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 4th by viewership.*


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Orton title reign is killing Smackdown. 15 years of getting a super push at the top of the card and this guy can't draw shit. He is making Jinder look bad too.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

WWE in ratings freefall. Not even 80% RAW retention. Lower than last year's rating. Not good.


----------



## Ace

Well deserved.

The show has been trash the last few weeks, the build up for their matches is horrible and there is no reason to watch.



Sweggeh said:


> Orton title reign is killing Smackdown. 15 years of getting a super push at the top of the card and this guy can't draw shit. He is making Jinder look bad too.


 Can't blame him when they give him nothing to do and feed him jobbers.


Sportscenter at 11 outdrawing SD. 

What a fuck you to Vince :kobelol


----------



## TheGeneticFreak

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Sweggeh said:


> Orton title reign is killing Smackdown. 15 years of getting a super push at the top of the card and this guy can't draw shit. He is making Jinder look bad too.


The guy is feuding with a jobber I don't see how Orton can be blamed, they didn't even try to build Jinder up they just seen he was Indian and decided to push him.


----------



## Ace

TheGeneticFreak said:


> The guy is feuding with a jobber I don't see how Orton can be blamed, they didn't even try to build Jinder up they just seen he was Indian and decided to push him.


 The old man deserves this so much :lol


----------



## Dolorian

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Apparently that is the lowest SD rating this year, even below the taped SD from last week.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Dolorian said:


> Apparently that is the lowest SD rating this year, even below the taped SD from last week.


Yeah, it was down from last week's taped show. I can't imagine WWE being happy with that number.


----------



## Dolorian

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



IDONTSHIV FOREVER said:


> Yeah, it was down from last week's taped show. I can't imagine WWE being happy with that number.


Wouldn't surprise me if many tuned out after they opened the show by having Jinder beat Styles.

But yeah Vince most likely will try to get Cena to come back as soon as possible to try and "fix" the ratings.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Good; because fuck Vince and WWE. Hand us a trash product (for both shows) and you get trash ratings. Sounds fair to me.


----------



## God Movement

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Holy fuck. The A show really bombed this week.

@Ace

You finally changed your name back and I'm happy for you and I'm going to let you finish, but what's going on here?

:kobelol


----------



## JDP2016

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Great number WWE. :eva

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## volde

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Was pretty boring show. Once AJ/Jinder/Owens segment ended there wasn't much point in continuing watching it.


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I totally get to use the gif this week :ha


----------



## chronoxiong

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Man these ratings have been awful. Very sad to see.


----------



## Dan be Cilley

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I take great pleasure watching this trash fail miserably, as it should :flabbynsting


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The shakeup ruined Smackdown quite a lot.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Looks like the viewing audience knew nothing could follow Jinder, so they stopped watching after his thrashing of AJ.


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Also, the feuds just suck. The only somewhat interesting one is the tag title match feud because both teams got promo time and the Breezango backstage segments are quite funny.

Both singles titles feuds are doing the awful evil foreigner shit that is so outdated in 2017. It's probably getting some heat, but it is boring because especially Owens is better than that.

The women's feud is one of the worst things in the past few years. The rest are mostly throwaway feuds.

New Day isnt there, Rusev isnt there, Cena isnt there. RAW occasionally gets big moments, Smackdown has none of those.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Not a single feud in the company that is compelling. Now they're randomly throwing their top stars together to determine who Brock squashes next.

What a company :kobelol

Hope NBA wrecks them harder in the next month. 

This is throughly deserved for the years of BS they have given fans. 

So much for "see you next week" :ha


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Ace said:


> Not a single feud in the company that is compelling. Now they're randomly throwing their top stars together to determine who Brock squashes next.
> 
> What a company :kobelol
> 
> Hope NBA wrecks them harder in the next month.
> 
> This is throughly deserved for the years of BS they have given fans.
> 
> So much for "see you next week" :ha


Just imagine if a year from now this is considered a good rating. :heston


----------



## Ace

Fans telling Vince to :suckit

The company deserves to die for not changing with the times, pushing limits and choose to coast on their brand name. This is what happens when you live by "See you next week" :cena

Where's the number 1 WWE mark at to tell us how revenue is up :kobelol

To those saying Cena will fix things, you're completely and utterly wrong. He's a band aid and will only pop the ratings for a week or two before we're back to here because of their tired, lame backward ass booking.


----------



## Randy Lahey

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



IDONTSHIV FOREVER said:


> WWE in ratings freefall. Not even 80% RAW retention. Lower than last year's rating. Not good.


Really bad considering this time last year was still a taped show. Now their live shows aren't even beating the taped versions.


----------



## SWITCHBLADE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Randy Lahey said:


> Really bad considering this time last year was still a taped show. Now their live shows aren't even beating the taped versions.


Which makes the "taped vs. live" argument even more null and void.


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 5/16 did 2,175,000 viewers, the lowest number of the year, a drop of seven percent.
> 
> The show got hurt by the NBA Draft Lottery from 8:30 to 9 p.m. that did 3,224,000 viewers, and then the second game of the Golden State Warriors vs. San Antonio Spurs series that did 5,775,000 viewers.
> 
> Smackdown was tenth for the night on cable.
> 
> The show did a 0.48 in 12-17 (down 5.9 percent from last week), 0.54 in 18-34 (down 16.9 percent), 0.82 in 35-49 (down 1.2 percent) and 0.91 in 50+ (down 8.1 percent).
> 
> The male viewership continued to shrink as in 18-49, it was 55.1 percent and in 12-17, it was 53.9 percent.


----------



## Zigglerpops

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Road Dogg still working his magic it seems


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I love how some on here when Smackdown has a good rating and Raw doesn't will laugh in Raw face about how SD is better blah blah blah, but when Smackdown has a bad rating and Raw has a good rating they dont blame SD itself. They will blame WWE as a whole instead of owning the fact smackdown sucked this week.

No no you cant have your cake and eat it too. Smackdown sucked this week you blame smackdown itself for sucking. Stop being such hypocrites.


----------



## Mra22

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

RIP to the WWE :lol those numbers are brutal. Also no straight male wants to watch two gay mall cops. I turned Smackdown off half way through myself.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

NBA snatched that brass ring from WWE. :curry3 :chefcurry


----------



## Lariatoh!

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Need to bring in that Bischoff first year of Nitro booking.

World title match every week brother!


Edit: World title switch every week brother!


----------



## Randy Lahey

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



wwe9391 said:


> I love how some on here when Smackdown has a good rating and Raw doesn't will laugh in Raw face about how SD is better blah blah blah, but when Smackdown has a bad rating and *Raw has a good rating* they dont blame SD itself. .


Raw hasn't had a good rating in over 4 years.


----------



## DELETE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

This SD was shit. It deserves whatever horrible rating it got. We need to protest against that fuckboi Orton.


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Randy Lahey said:


> Raw hasn't had a good rating in over 4 years.


It was good for 2017 standards


----------



## squarebox

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Didn't even watch SD this week, first time in ages.

Until Jobber Mahal pisses off then I'll continue to not watch....at all. Usually skip through most of RAW & SD but Jobber Mahal contending for the SD Championship is the final straw for me as far as SD goes.

The fact that Vince is still writing these anti-america scripts for these non-american guys and the crowd continues to play off it just fucking baffles me tbh. We've seen it 1000 times before, just fucking stop it already.


----------



## Soul Man Danny B

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



squarebox said:


> The fact that Vince is still writing these anti-america scripts for these non-american guys and the crowd continues to play off it just fucking baffles me tbh. We've seen it 1000 times before, just fucking stop it already.


I don't want to be that guy, but...

In case you haven't noticed, there are many incredibly stupid fucking people in this country. Some of them even manage to find work in our government.

While Vince may be completely clueless about many things, he's definitely got the right idea about his audience. He treats them with contempt. He feels they are idiots. He's largely correct.

Unfortunately, those same fans are collectively a lot smarter than they were 30 years ago, so even when things work, they don't *really* work.

Vince is just an out of touch man who goes with what worked for him 30 years ago when he runs out of ideas. "The Foreign Menace" is just one of many examples of this.


----------



## BeckyLynchFan29

*Smackdown will be below 2 million Viewers Soon.*

and it might even happen this week cause fans are not going to watch a show with a jobber as World Champion so I hope all the jinder trolls laugh it up cause they wont be laughing when the ratings tank under 2 million and its all because of this jobber being pushed.


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan

*Re: Smackdown will be below 2 million Viewers Soon.*

not with #HardboyMahal as our lord and savior










#BronzedGod 
#FullNatty 
#HallOfFame2018


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Utter nonsense. RAW and SDL's ratings are inextricably linked. SDL does 80+% of RAW's numbers. Have RAW do better and SDL goes up. A rising tide lifts all boats. SDL is fortunate to have the only true World Champion in Jinder Mahal.









So I wonder if SDL drops below two million, given that RAW cratered this week. Expecting the worst, but hoping for the best. :fingerscrossed


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 5/23/17 Vs 5/16/17 ):
2.328M Vs 2.175M ( + 0.153M / + 7.03% )
0.800D Vs 0.680D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.328M Vs 2.615M ( - 0.287M / 89.02% )
0.800D Vs 0.910D

Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 8th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 5/23/17 Vs 5/26/16 ):
2.328M Vs 2.112M ( + 0.216M / + 10.23% )
0.800D Vs 0.590D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.112M Vs 3.269M ( - 1.157M / 64.61% )
0.730D Vs 1.190D

Note: SDL this week last year was 5th by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## Mr. Socko

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

So that's good news, or at least not bad news, then?

They bounced back well here.


----------



## Dolorian

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Number is below the taped show from two weeks ago which did 2.348M.


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The Maharaja raising the ratings, just like I knew he would.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Total viewers increased and the demo increased by .12 89% RAW retention. All things considered, decent number for SDL.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Dolorian said:


> Number is below the taped show from two weeks ago which did 2.348M.


Yup. Still not good. Plus it was a show after a PPV. Next week will be a better tell on what type of impact Mahal may be having as WWE champion. If it goes up (especially if Raw continues going down) then it's a good sign.

However I'll be surprised if it doesn't dip back to 2.1 or 2.2 mil.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Dolorian said:


> Number is below the taped show from two weeks ago which did 2.348M.


But this week's demo was .06 greater than two weeks ago. Decent numbers for SDL.


----------



## Dolorian

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



IDONTSHIV FOREVER said:


> But this week's demo was .06 greater than two weeks ago. Decent numbers for SDL.


Not a decent number at all, SD was doing 2.5m about a month ago and even during football season last year it was pulling better numbers. You folks sure seem love twisting things when it comes to SD's ratings due to the whole "brand wars" thing you all got going on.

This is not a good number, really, specially coming right out of a PPV with a debuting Nakamura a new champion and also having Styles/Nakamura in the main event.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Dolorian said:


> Not a decent number at all, SD was doing 2.5m about a month ago and even during football season last year it was pulling better numbers. You folks sure seem love twisting things when it comes to SD's ratings due to the whole "brand wars" thing you all got going on.
> 
> This is not a good number, really.


Of course it's not good. Both shows are trending downward, so I'd see a weekly increase as decent. It's certainly better than dropping again. It may start dropping again next week. I want to see what both shows draw once the NBA Playoffs end.


----------



## Dolorian

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



IDONTSHIV FOREVER said:


> Of course it's not good. Both shows are trending downward, so I'd see a weekly increase as decent. It's certainly better than dropping again. It may start dropping again next week. I want to see what both shows draw once the NBA Playoffs end.


Next week will indeed be a better tell on where things stand for both shows. I think RAW won't be facing off against NBA next Monday and SD won't have the usual post-PPV bump.


----------



## JC00

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Still the 2nd least watched episode post-WM. Just because it was better than last week doesn't mean much. It's lost half a million viewers since the post-WM episode.


----------



## Arsenal79

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Considering the numbers RAW did, those are good numbers for SmackDown. The Maharaja will hold the fort until Cena returns for the money feud with the Champ.


----------



## Ace

India number 1! India number 1! India number 1!



JC00 said:


> Still the 2nd least watched episode post-WM. Just because it was better than last week doesn't mean much. It's lost half a million viewers since the post-WM episode.


 It's filler season and they're up against the NBA Finals.

Fans have picked up the WWE only care about SS, RR and WM.


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Sweggeh said:


> The Maharaja raising the ratings, just like I knew he would.


Out of ca. 500.000 people who quit Smackdown, only 200.000 came back to have a look at Mahal. Given the shock of Jinder becoming champ, a 200.000 curiosity pop is poor.

And since they now have seen the peak of Jinder's abilities, interest level is gonna fade fast. It's the shock factor short sighted shit booking that Russo did.


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Jinder = ratings


----------



## Ace

*Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

The Maharaja's Punjabi Celebration has 1.7m views after being up for less than 24hrs.






From what I've seen, WWE's videos are rarely_ this_ popular during this time of year.

The like to dislike ratio isn't too bad either, the fans are starting to embrace the WWE's new Maharaja.


----------



## CesaroSwing

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

I seriously don't know how many times I have to go over this.

Why the _fuck_ are you praising Jinder again after saying that you were "done with the product" if he won the title just two or three days ago?


----------



## Ace

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



CesaroSwing said:


> I seriously don't know how many times I have to go over this.
> 
> Why the _fuck_ are you praising Jinder again after saying that you were "done with the product" if he won the title just two or three days ago?


 Like I said, the title means nothing and the WWE is a parody of a pro wrestling company :shrug 

It becomes watchable and quite entertaining when you realize this.


----------



## BoT

*Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*

Source: http://www.f4wonline.com/wwe-news/w...-236166?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter



> Despite monster competition from an NBA playoff game on Tuesday night, SmackDown viewership was up seven percent over last week. The show averaged 2.328 million viewers.
> 
> Game four of the NBA Eastern Conference Finals between the Cleveland Cavaliers and Boston Celtics aired opposite SmackDown for the last 90 minutes of the show and averaged 7.017 million viewers.
> 
> With Raw ratings being down again this week, SmackDown was able to retain almost 90 percent of the audience of the WWE's flagship show. The only major thing advertised for SmackDown in advance this week was Jinder Mahal hosting a Punjabi Celebration after winning the WWE Championship from Randy Orton at Backlash.
> 
> The episode was eighth for the night in total viewers on cable, but it finished third in the 18-49 demo, trailing only the NBA game and the basketball post-game show.


Weird, I guess Jinder does draw.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*

The Age of The Maharaja :banderas


----------



## CesaroSwing

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Ace said:


> Like I said, the title means nothing and the WWE is a parody of a pro wrestling company :shrug
> 
> It becomes watchable and quite entertaining when you realize this.











I refuse to believe that someone is so hung up with the meaning of the title that it can make a performer go from unbearable to entertaining to them.


----------



## Stinger Fan

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*

New champions almost always increase ratings. No surprise here. Wait until next week and the week after.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



CesaroSwing said:


> I refuse to believe that someone is so hung up with the meaning of the title that it can make a performer go from unbearable to entertaining to them.


 I don't care if AJ ever wins the WWE title again :shrug


----------



## Ace

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*



Stinger Fan said:


> New champions almost always increase ratings. No surprise here. Wait until next week and the week after.


 I'll be surprised if ratings aren't close 2.5m next week, I don't think they have any competition.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*

I would hope so. First show for the brand after a PPV, and a big "shocking" World Title change. They better be up, as small as the increase from last week was..


----------



## Lothario

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



CesaroSwing said:


> I seriously don't know how many times I have to go over this.
> 
> Why the _fuck_ are you praising Jinder again after saying that you were "done with the product" if he won the title just two or three days ago?


The mood swings to either extremes are very excessive and sporadic. Not going to play armchair psychologist but it's definitely odd.

In any case, I missed the live celebration but those first 90 seconds may have been the funniest thing I've seen on WWE programming in some time. Absolutely hilarious and the genuine salt from some of the audience was comical. I do wish he'd been given a more measured push up the card but this could work. Entertainment is the name of the game and that was already more entertaining than anything Orton had done in the last two months. I can't wait until they head down to the deep south. :lol


It's just too bad we never got that Muhammed Hassan coronation.


----------



## starsfan24

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*

Be interesting to see the ratings next week. It's a good sign for this week, but it'll be interesting to see how many stay for next week.


----------



## Saturn

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Ace said:


> Like I said, the title means nothing and the WWE is a parody of a pro wrestling company :shrug
> 
> It becomes watchable and quite entertaining when you realize this.


So are you actually a fan of his or are you just taking a "if you can't beat em, join em" attitude? 

For the record, I don't agree with your statement that the title means nothing and the WWE is a parody of wrestling. I can also tell you, tons of people _DO_ legitimately love Jinder and everything he's doing. It sounds like you've almost given up on the product. If that's the case, I don't know why you continue to support Jinder….

As for the youtube views, I'm glad he's getting so many views and his popularity is rising so quickly.


----------



## Steve Black Man

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Ace said:


> The Maharaja's Punjabi Celebration has 1.7m views after being up for less than 24hrs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I've seen, WWE's videos are rarely_ this_ popular during this time of year.
> 
> The like to dislike ratio isn't too bad either, the fans are starting to embrace the WWE's new Maharaja.


If you were a wrestler, you'd be The Big Show :lol


----------



## Dio Brando

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



CesaroSwing said:


> I seriously don't know how many times I have to go over this.
> 
> Why the _fuck_ are you praising Jinder again after saying that you were "done with the product" if he won the title just two or three days ago?


because he's a shitty poster.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Saturn said:


> So are you actually a fan of his or are you just taking a "if you can't beat em, join em" attitude?
> 
> For the record, I don't agree with your statement that the title means nothing and the WWE is a parody of wrestling. I can also tell you, tons of people _DO_ legitimately love Jinder and everything he's doing. It sounds like you've almost given up on the product. If that's the case, I don't know why you continue to support Jinder….
> 
> As for the youtube views, I'm glad he's getting so many views and his popularity is rising so quickly.


 Taking the show less seriously and supporting whatever I find entertaining.

At first I went with it to troll other users and didn't really care one way or another. Jinder's push was different and refreshing, I thought he had zero chance of winning the title and that Randy would stomp him and move on. Now that he's won, it's made me realize the title is worthless and the company simply doesn't care, I should enjoy the show for what it is :shrug

If I want to watch compelling stories that are logical and lead to great matches, I can watch other promotions.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*

It's up but the next few weeks will tell the tale.


----------



## Saturn

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Dio Brando said:


> because he's a shitty poster.


I don't know about that, but his logic behind supporting Jinder is strange. It doesn't seem all that genuine, and the Jinder supporters are already being accused of being "trolls" by a lot of his haters. I'm just speculating, but if the OP does enjoy Jinder, continue to enjoy him but this defeatist attitude is odd….



Ace said:


> Taking the show less seriously and supporting whatever I find entertaining :shrug


Fair enough, but if you were ready to give up on the WWE after Jinder won the title, it does make me question if you're really a fan of his…. glad you find him entertaining though because he has been a lot of fun to watch.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

He is out Romaning Roman.


----------



## Stinger Fan

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*



Ace said:


> I'll be surprised if ratings aren't close 2.5m next week, I don't think they have any competition.


I can't say for certain, maybe they do well but if the shows previous to the PPV were any indication and the slow ticket sales...maybe not.


----------



## Beatles123

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Ace said:


> Taking the show less seriously and supporting whatever I find entertaining :shrug
> 
> At first I went with it to troll other users and didn't really care one way or another. Jinder's push was different and refreshing, I thought he had zero chance of winning the title and that Randy would stomp him and move on. Now that he's won, it's helped me realize to stop taking the title and company seriously and enjoy the show for what it is :shrug


God damn it NO! YOU WERE CORRECT THE FIRST TIME! :mj2


----------



## Saturn

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

Well, I think that's a good attitude to take. People _DO_ take wrestling too seriously sometimes here and never seem pleased with any of the booking. I wish more people would just take it for what it is and remember that this is a show, not a real sport.


----------



## Dio Brando

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Saturn said:


> I don't know about that, but his logic behind supporting Jinder is strange. It doesn't seem all that genuine, and the Jinder supporters are already being accused of being "trolls" by a lot of his haters. I'm just speculating, but if the OP does enjoy Jinder, continue to enjoy him but this defeatist attitude is odd….


There are trolls for everything in wrestling. For example this site hating on Finn.
OP just the type of posters I don't like tho. Type of posters to make you wanna dislike New Japan on purpose weather they are the best or not.

Like who says WWE is the parody of wrestling and its easier to enjoy for what it is when you realize that besides posters with some kind of new japan avatar or signature


----------



## Laughable Chimp

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

Again, too early to judge. Its a controversial situation so of course there is gonna be a huge view spike. Nothing conclusive yet.


----------



## THANOS

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

Jinder and Reigns' key demo is the same. It's 90-95% Indian. Social Media is also WWE's lowest revenue stream to the point where it's actually a segment loss. 

No need to ever brag about YouTube views or facebook likes.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Saturn said:


> Well, I think that's a good attitude to take. People _DO_ take wrestling too seriously sometimes here and never seem pleased with any of the booking. I wish more people would just take it for what it is and remember that this is a show, not a real sport.


 Pretty much. 

When you stop giving a fuck and watch to be entertained, guys like Jinder are hysterical.

I'm a huge AJ mark, but I can admit Jinder's stuff is hell of a lot more entertaining than anything AJ has done in months.


----------



## Saturn

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



THANOS said:


> Jinder and Reigns' key demo is the same. It's 90-95% Indian. Social Media is also WWE's lowest revenue stream to the point where it's actually a segment loss.
> 
> No need to ever brag about YouTube views or facebook likes.


It may not make them a lot of money, but it does give a good indication of who the fans are interested in and helps the WWE gauge how successful Jinder's push will be.


----------



## Brodus Clay

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

Jinder destroying all the defenses of the Roman Reigns fanboys, now they need to become fans of him in order to still using youtube views as saving graces of Reigns.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*



Stinger Fan said:


> I can't say for certain, maybe they do well but if the shows previous to the PPV were any indication and the slow ticket sales...maybe not.


 You really think people won't be back after that over the top celebration? :lol

Only a matter of time before we see Jinder come out to the ring on an elephant.


----------



## Mr.Amazing5441

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*



Ace said:


> The Age of The Maharaja :banderas


Alright bro, you have to decide. Are you a Maharajan or not. One day you are praising him the next you are trashing him, you cant keep flip flopping.


----------



## Ace

IDONTSHIV FOREVER said:


> He is out Romaning Roman.


 Within the space of a month :lol 

Just wait until he goes over Cena clean at WM :sodone

All the women and children will be so badly triggered, the meltdown would be hilarious :lmao

Men chanting "Thank you Jinder", women and children chanting "Jinder sucks" on the SD after WM :banderas



Mr.Amazing5441 said:


> Alright bro, you have to decide. Are you a Maharajan or not. One day you are praising him the next you are trashing him, you cant keep flip flopping.


 I'm a fan, he's the most entertaining thing in the WWE today, by far.


----------



## Flair Flop

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

Once upon a time.....there's was a thread created. 


It was about a little mini demon named Balor and the number of YouTube views he gets
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/raw/2168809-roman-balor-get-most-youtube-views.html
The story here starts out a little slow, but really picks up at post #11 


Ace said:


> I stopped giving a damn about these numbers when I found out most of the views are international views.
> 
> The chances are 60%+ of those views are from India.


----------



## Sufferin Succotash

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

Jinder reminds me of a young Rocky Maivia. He's a soon to be mega star.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Flair Flop said:


> Once upon a time.....there's was a thread created.
> 
> 
> It was about a little mini demon named Balor and the number of YouTube views he gets
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/raw/2168809-roman-balor-get-most-youtube-views.html
> The story here starts out a little slow, but really picks up at post #11


 Jinder was a jobber a month back, now his videos are in the top 2-3 and is in a position to crush Roman's numbers. He's done this all without an extended rocket push that includes a Royal Rumble win, privilege of retiring icons of the business, kayfabe records and consecutive WM main events :shrug


----------



## Mordecay

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*



Ace said:


> I'm a fan, he's the most entertaining thing in the WWE today, by far.


Nope, that's Breezango


----------



## Ace

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*



Mordecay said:


> Nope, that's Breezango


 Forgot about them, forget the by far bit.

Jinder and Breezango are equal first.


----------



## Beatles123

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Ace said:


> Jinder was a jobber a month back, now his videos are in the top 2-3 and is in a position to crush Roman's numbers. He's done this all without an extended rocket push that includes a Royal Rumble win, privilege of retiring icons of the business, kayfabe records and consecutive WM main events :shrug


Which, as we will find out, will be to his detriment.


----------



## Flair Flop

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Ace said:


> Jinder was a jobber a month back, now his videos are in the top 2-3 and is in a position to crush Roman's numbers. He's done this all without an extended rocket push that includes a Royal Rumble win, privilege of retiring icons of the business, kayfabe records and consecutive WM main events :shrug


Two weeks ago you clearly stated that you didn't give a damn about these numbers and strongly implied that viewers from India didn't matter. Your flip flopping is amusing. Carry on with your trolling.


----------



## ElTerrible

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*

Roman Reigns desperately looking for an Indian grandmother right now.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Beatles123 said:


> Which, as we will find out, will be to his detriment.


 Raw is hitting all time ratings lows every week. Hasn't stopped them from pushing Roman as the next FOTC :shrug

At least The Maharaja can draw and has done so with A LOT less :draper2

He has the fans in the palms of his hands.


----------



## Beatles123

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Ace said:


> Raw is hitting all time ratings lows every week. Hasn't stopped them from pushing Roman as the next FOTC :shrug
> 
> At least The Maharaja can draw and has done so with A LOT less :draper2


Flavor of the month. Will be oversaturated to hell, given scripted promos an burn out in a few months if he doesn't get control of his own material...and better on the mic

It baffles be how people don't see how green he is for this position.

And no. No he doesn't. He has those hoping for change in his hands.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Beatles123 said:


> Flavor of the month. Will be oversaturated to hell, given scripted promos an burn out in a few months if he doesn't get control of his own material...and better on the mic
> 
> It baffles be how people don't see how green he is for this position.


 Not if they keep presenting him like a big deal. What's great about Jinder is he's actually moving numbers with a lot less than THE GUY they've wasted 3 years on. It took them years, but they might have just found their next megastar.

I'll admit Jinder sucks in the ring, he's terrible. His promos aren't the best either. But so what? He evokes emotion every time he steps into a ring, the whole arena either cheers for him or against him. I've never seen anything quite like it at this level.


----------



## Saturn

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Flair Flop said:


> Once upon a time.....there's was a thread created.
> 
> 
> It was about a little mini demon named Balor and the number of YouTube views he gets
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/raw/2168809-roman-balor-get-most-youtube-views.html
> The story here starts out a little slow, but really picks up at post #11



lol OP just got ethered


----------



## Ace

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Saturn said:


> lol OP just got ethered


 So a jobber doing these kind of numbers after a month isn't impressive?


----------



## The Boy Wonder

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*



ElTerrible said:


> Roman Reigns desperately looking for an Indian grandmother right now.


You guys keep this up you may sway Vince from doing Brock/Reigns and we might get Jinder/Reigns — it would be the biggest thing ever for Indians.


----------



## LucasXXII

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

If you support Jinder it's "he trains extremely hard to attain his look; his promo isn't the best, he doesn't wrestle 5-star matches but he elicits emotion from the audience like no others". If you're against Jinder it's "his in-ring skill sucks, his mic skill sucks, he's just a roided-up talentless hack who only deserves to be a jobber".

Arguing about any of these points is essentially meaningless.


----------



## Laughable Chimp

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*

Is it just me, or am I the only who imagines like we're all wrestling deities discussing about all the going ons in the wrestling business with bored looks on our faces.


Okay just me.


----------



## Saturn

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

For the love of god OP, stop posting this emoji "







". Shit is annoying.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Saturn said:


> For the love of god OP, stop posting this emoji "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ". Shit is annoying.


 WWE :shrug


----------



## Saturn

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Ace said:


> So a jobber doing these kind of numbers after a month isn't impressive?


Nope, it is very impressive …. I just lol'd when someone pulled up some dirt on you. How do you plead?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

Wow, Indians love of wrestling is actually true. I don't know if youtube views are significant, but surely WWE would like to see them as high as possible. Well done, Jinder. You're a youtube draw.


----------



## Laughable Chimp

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Ace said:


> Not if they keep presenting him like a big deal. What's great about Jinder is he's actually moving numbers with a lot less than THE GUY they've wasted 3 years. It took them years, but they might have just found their next megastar.
> 
> I'll admit Jinder sucks in the ring, he's terrible. His promos aren't the best either. But so what? He evokes emotion every time he steps into a ring, the whole arena either cheers for him or against him. I've never seen anything quite like it at this level.


Mate, so far he is drawing because the entire thing is so crazy and unpredictable that people feel compelled to watch it out of morbid curiosity. As I said, wait for a few weeks and let the hype die down to see if Jinder is a true draw or not.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Saturn said:


> Nope, it is very impressive …. I just lol'd when someone pulled up some dirt on you. How do you plead?


 YouTube makes them no money, but for a jobber to be doing that after a month only makes you think what he could do with a harder and longer push I.e. Where it does make them big bucks. It also gives a small insight into how he is perceived in India, where ~80% of WWE's views seem to come from, and is a good measure for how they're doing in building him up for the lucrative Indian tour.

If it were up to me, I'd set up a feud for Jinder-Ali and hold WWE's first ever PPV in India.

The Maharaja vs. The Pride of Pakistan would draw huge in both countries.


----------



## KO Bossy

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Flair Flop said:


> Once upon a time.....there's was a thread created.
> 
> 
> It was about a little mini demon named Balor and the number of YouTube views he gets
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/raw/2168809-roman-balor-get-most-youtube-views.html
> The story here starts out a little slow, but really picks up at post #11


:fuckyeah


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*



The Boy Wonder said:


> You guys keep this up you may sway Vince from doing Brock/Reigns and we might get Jinder/Reigns — it would be the biggest thing ever for Indians.


I'd take Jinder/Brock over Reigns :draper2


----------



## Ace

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*



DoctorWhosawhatsit said:


> I'd take Jinder/Brock over Reigns :draper2


 Fan support would be better split in Jinder-Brock, the match could do 200,000+ in a Champion v Champion unification match for a PPV in India.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Mahatma Mahal vs. Raja Reigns vs. Brahman Brock = mucho :vince$ in India


----------



## Saturn

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

To get back on thread topic, Jinder's Punajbi celebration seems to have the most likes of any WWE video on their youtube page in the past few months maybe. If anyone can find one that does, can you show me? 


Doesn't seem like you can search their channel narrowed down to likes.

How does this make sense though? Wasn't the WWE already very popular in India before Jinder got his push? I underestimated just how big of a news story this will be in India.


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*



Ace said:


> Fan support would be better split in Jinder-Brock, the match could do 200,000+ in a Champion v Champion unification match for a PPV in India.


Agreed, at best Brock/Reigns is 70/30 in favor of Brock, at worst the crowd shits on the whole thing.


----------



## Arsenal79

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

This is crazy. The Punjabi celebration has 1.7M views, and the highest clip from Smackdown aside from that only has around 800K. The MAHARAJA is truly driving insane interest in the product right now. Long may he reign!!!!!!


----------



## THANOS

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Saturn said:


> It may not make them a lot of money, but it does give a good indication of who the fans are interested in and helps the WWE gauge how successful Jinder's push will be.


A good indication of who the fans of India are interested in yes, but they only contribute to the rare house show gates when WWE visits there. 

WWE is trying to open up some merchandise stores (because the shipping costs deflate most of their merch demand in India) and come up with a way for Indians to view their shows live, but so far there are no clear ways for WWE to monetize Reigns' and Jinder's demo slice. 

That aside, I haven't commented on Jinder's rise as of yet. I'm going to give it more time before I fully comment, but I'm seeing improvement every week from him and his comments on Y2J's podcast are very encouraging. The man knows he has a lot of work to do and recognizes his faults very early in the process (something a certain Samoan never acknowledged this early), so I'm going to give him a chance.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*



DoctorWhosawhatsit said:


> Agreed, at best Brock/Reigns is 70/30 in favor of Brock, at worst the crowd shits on the whole thing.


 70/30 at WM? :lmao

It'll be 90/10 at worst.


----------



## Saturn

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



THANOS said:


> A good indication of who the fans of India are interested in yes, but they only contribute to the rare house show gates when WWE visits there.
> 
> WWE is trying to open up some merchandise stores (because the shipping costs deflate most of their merch demand in India) and come up with a way for Indians to view their shows live, but so far there are no clear ways for WWE to monetize Reigns' and Jinder's demo slice.
> 
> That aside, I haven't commented on Jinder's rise as of yet. I'm going to give it more time before I fully comment, but I'm seeing improvement every week from him and his comments on Y2J's podcast are very encouraging. The man knows he has a lot of work to do and recognizes his faults very early in the process (something a certain Samoan never acknowledged this early), so I'm going to give him a chance.


I'm sure they'll find a way to expand their market in India. Their best bet would be to open merchandise stores in India itself. 

This is a very smart move on their part. The market is at a down point in the US so focusing more on India would really help them out.


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*



Ace said:


> 70/30 at WM? :lmao
> 
> It'll be 90/10 at worst.


I mean at best as in at best for Reigns and Vince, with WWE editing the crowd and doing everything in their power to make sure it's kids that are heard Andy not the rest of the crowd. I don't think it's actually gonna happen lmao it's just the best Vince's can even remotely hope for.

And at worst there will be NO cheers, just 80 thousand smarks shitting on it from entrance to exit lol


----------



## MontyCora

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

A shocking unexpected title change has lots of views on Youtube. Wow.

So unexpected.


----------



## Flair Flop

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Saturn said:


> To get back on thread topic, Jinder's Punajbi celebration seems to have the most likes of any WWE video on their youtube page in the past few months maybe. If anyone can find one that does, can you show me?
> 
> 
> Doesn't seem like you can search their channel narrowed down to likes.







No way to tell where it was at after the first day to make an accurate comparison though.


----------



## BaeJLee

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Flair Flop said:


> Two weeks ago you clearly stated that you didn't give a damn about these numbers and strongly implied that viewers from India didn't matter. Your flip flopping is amusing. Carry on with your trolling.


:lol I was thinking the exact same thing. OP changes sides more than Big Show changes from heel to face and vise versa.


----------



## Chrome

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

Now granted, Youtube and social media account for very little of WWE's bottom line, but that's still an impressive number of views to get in only a day. Mahal's drawing some good numbers so far in his first week as champion, both on Youtube and in the TV ratings.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Chrome said:


> Now granted, Youtube and social media account for very little of WWE's bottom line, but that's still an impressive number of views to get in only a day. Mahal's drawing some good numbers so far in his first week as champion, both on Youtube and in the TV ratings.


 Glad some people understand it. Sure, it's just YT numbers but if he's drawing better than their top YT draw within the space of a month. If they continue to present him well, who's to say he can't get 10m+ views for every Maharaja video and make social media profitable for the company.

It's also to be noted that Indians are known to make up a lot of the WWE's YT views, so if he's pulling those numbers, it's an indication they're doing a good job marketing to those Indian fans.

Then there's this weeks ratings, which you alluded to.


----------



## Dolorian

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

El Majarete can keep his Punjabi Celebration with 1.7m views, El Torito (who beat Jinder in a minute) will live on with the 4m views for his Cinco de Mayo celebration...






:suckit


----------



## Saturn

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Chrome said:


> Now granted, Youtube and social media account for very little of WWE's bottom line, but that's still an impressive number of views to get in only a day. Mahal's drawing some good numbers so far in his first week as champion, both on Youtube and in the TV ratings.


The Maharaja deserves a level of respect for his contributions to both Canada and India. :surprise: Amazing that this is so well received. There really is no hindering Jinder. :hmmm


----------



## Ace

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Dolorian said:


> El Majarete can keep his Punjabi Celebration with 1.7m views, El Torito (who beat Jinder in a minute) will live on with the 4m views for his Cinco de Mayo celebration...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :suckit


 I'll be stunned if Maharaja's Punjabi Celebration doesn't have 10 million+ views by the end of the year.


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 5/23 did 2,328,000 viewers, up seven percent from the 5/16 low for the year, and increased against tougher competition. The number was roughly identical with two weeks earlier and was the third lowest number of the year.
> 
> However, the competition was really tough, with the Boston Celtics vs. Cleveland Cavaliers NBA playoff game doing 7,017,000 viewers and the Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Ottawa Senators NHL playoff game did 1,809,000 viewers.
> 
> Smackdown was eighth for the night on cable.
> 
> The show did a 0.48 in 12-17 (same as last week), 0.62 in 18-34 (up 14.8 percent), 0.98 in 35-49 (up 19.5 percent) and 0.93 in 50+ (up 2.2 percent).
> 
> The male audience was 61.5 percent in 18-49 and 64.5 percent in 12-17, both huge increases from the prior week. In 18-49, the women audience was up 0.9 percent from last week but the male audience was up 31.3 percent against stronger competition. Granted, last week was unusually low for a comparison point but it does indicate either the title change or the first Nakamura match on Smackdown helped with the 18-49 male audience, although much of the increase was just putting the footage of some of the matches during the commercial break, which kept people from switching away during the breaks in the usual level of numbers. In the past, when that has been done, it does slightly help ratings. The strange this is they did that during the women’s match and tag title match, but not during the Nakamura match, which would be the one in theory, you’d most want to do it during.


----------



## Mr. Socko

*Re: Ratings for Smackdown up post PPV.*



Ace said:


> You really think people won't be back after that over the top celebration? :lol
> 
> *Only a matter of time before we see Jinder come out to the ring on an elephant.*


I'd get behind anyone as WWE champ if they had an entrance that OTT tbh.


----------



## God Movement

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The Maharajaaaaa


----------



## Ja AG

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

That segment was so fresh, I was all in. Amazing


----------



## Mordecay

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Ace said:


> Raw is hitting all time ratings lows every week. Hasn't stopped them from pushing Roman as the next FOTC :shrug
> 
> *At least The Maharaja can draw* and has done so with A LOT less :draper2
> 
> He has the fans in the palms of his hands.


The ratings have been dropping in Smackdown since his push, with the only exception being this week and still this last 3 weeks have had the the 3 worst ratings this year. The Backlash show was in his way to a sell out, but once the main event was announced the tickets stop moving.

But "he can draw"


----------



## Ja AG

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Mordecay said:


> The ratings have been dropping in Smackdown since his push, with the only exception being this week and still this last 3 weeks have had the the 3 worst ratings this year. The Backlash show was in his way to a sell out, but once the main event was announced the tickets stop moving.
> 
> But "he can draw"


Randy is completely to blame for the rating drops.


----------



## Arsenal79

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Ja AG said:


> Randy is completely to blame for the rating drops.


Not just Randy, but he's a part. Also the absence of Cena, New Day, Rusev, Lana, etc.

The biggest factor is the stiff competition from the NBA/NHL playoffs, and the fact that it's the post WrestleMania period where many people who only watch during the road to WrestleMania stop watching because they've been conditioned that nothing happens now.

In the face of all those headwinds, the MAHARAJA is going a great job keeping the brand afloat.


----------



## AJ GOAT

People talking about ratings dropping like they haven't been for the last 20 years lol. Other than John Cena Smackdown had zero draws. Even the great AJ Styles isnt a draw for casuals


----------



## Mordecay

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

Lol at people trying to justify Mahal push, saing it's not his fault for the drop of the ratings. And even if it isn't (which I believe he has part of the blame) you can't justify that the tickets stopped moving once they announced him in the main event of Backlash


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



IDONTSHIV FOREVER said:


> Of course it's not good. Both shows are trending downward, so I'd see a weekly increase as decent. It's certainly better than dropping again. It may start dropping again next week. I want to see what both shows draw once the NBA Playoffs end.


*Now you KNOW the Light Skinned Gawd is hijacking ALL the ratings next week :curry2*


----------



## Kinjx11

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*

you know india got like 1 billion people in it?


----------



## ste1592

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Ace said:


> Glad some people understand it. Sure, it's just YT numbers but if he's drawing better than their top YT draw within the space of a month. *If they continue to present him well*, who's to say he can't get 10m+ views for every Maharaja video and make social media profitable for the company.


Yeah, and they already made their first mistake in slapping the title on him when he was jobbing to Mojo less than two months ago. 

You say he does big numbers for one pushed so little, and he could achieve more if the push is consistent; I tell you, had the push being consistent from the beginning, people wouldn't call him for what he is: a jobber winning the WWE title.

They can push him as hard as they want now, that's what it will go down in history, that a jobber won the WWE title in less than a month of build. And there you have already hindered the "potential" of the Jinder.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Legit BOSS said:


> *Now you KNOW the Light Skinned Gawd is hijacking ALL the ratings next week :curry2*


SDL has lucked out as the Finals don't fall on a Tuesday.







But RAW faces a potential Game 5 on June 12. Whatcha gonna do, RAW? :curry


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



ste1592 said:


> Yeah, and they already made their first mistake in slapping the title on him when he was jobbing to Mojo less than two months ago.
> 
> You say he does big numbers for one pushed so little, and he could achieve more if the push is consistent; I tell you, had the push being consistent from the beginning, people wouldn't call him for what he is: a jobber winning the WWE title.
> 
> They can push him as hard as they want now, that's what it will go down in history, that a jobber won the WWE title in less than a month of build. And there you have already hindered the "potential" of the Jinder.


*Well, according to you guys, Bray's a career jobber as of WM 30 and he won the title in February :mj. The funny part is that Jinder, in spite of being an actual jobber, is actually more credible than Wyatt at this point.*


----------



## ste1592

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Legit BOSS said:


> *Well, according to you guys, Bray's a career jobber as of WM 30 and he won the title in February :mj. The funny part is that Jinder, in spite of being an actual jobber, is actually more credible than Wyatt at this point.*


But according to you guys, Bray had a protected streak and a sostained push from Summerslam onward :mj.

And the fact that Jinder is an actual jobber and not at least an upper-midcarder is what will never make him credible to my -and I believe many others- eyes. At least I can say Bray jobs to the main eventers, guys like Jinder are what WWE feeds to Wyatt to make him look "credible" when going against the Romans, the Balors and the Cenas.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



ste1592 said:


> But according to you guys, Bray had a protected streak and a sostained push from Summerslam onward :mj.


*Now you know I've posted the miniscule television losses of Wyatt on multiple occasions :cudi. Y'all just over-exaggerate the magnitude of his handful of losses to guaranteed Hall of Famers. I will agree that there was no reason for him to lose to Cena at Mania and sit out and watch his guys lose to Undertaker and Kane at Survivor Series when Kane should've definitely taken the pin, however, Bray has had ample opportunity to recover from these losses, unlike actually buried individuals, like Zack Ryder.*



> And the fact that Jinder is an actual jobber and not at least an upper-midcarder is what will never make him credible to my -and I believe many others- eyes. At least I can say Bray jobs to the main eventers, guys like Jinder are what WWE feeds to Wyatt to make him look "credible" when going against the Romans, the Balors and the Cenas.


*Jinder shows up, briefly tells us what he's going to do, and effectively executes his plan. That's all it takes to establish credibility. Bray makes it hard on himself for no reason with these long, boring, and pointless promos. *


----------



## ste1592

*Re: Jinder Mahal, the YouTube draw*



Legit BOSS said:


> *Now you know I've posted the miniscule television losses of Wyatt on multiple occasions :cudi. Y'all just over-exaggerate the magnitude of his handful of losses to guaranteed Hall of Famers. I will agree that there was no reason for him to lose to Cena at Mania and sit out and watch his guys lose to Undertaker and Kane at Survivor Series when Kane should've definitely taken the pin, however, Bray has had ample opportunity to recover from these losses, unlike actually buried individuals, like Zack Ryder.*


Well that's a valid point, we have been indeed exaggerating with pointing out his losses to guaranteed Hall of Famers, but when people see a talent who gets wasted to give wins to guaranteed Hall of Famers past their prime who absolutely don't need them, well it kinda gets annoying. 



Legit BOSS said:


> *Jinder shows up, briefly tells us what he's going to do, and effectively executes his plan. That's all it takes to establish credibility. Bray makes it hard on himself for no reason with these long, boring, and pointless promos. *


Sure, but I can't get past the fact that a month ago he jobbed to Mojo on free TV. It's the kind of stuff that makes it harder and harder to suspend my disbelief; it's like when you realize that the guy playing Santa every year is your neighbour and not the "actual" Santa.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

"YouTube draw."

The same division that WWE lost $505,000 on in the first 3 months of 2017..


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Tuesday May 30 nationals available Thursday June 1 at 7 am* Tomorrow morning we get to see if SDL remains stuck in their 80+%RAW retention mode.

SDL's ratings were virtually identical with last week's. 2.350M this week to 2.326M last. .77 in the demo to .80 last week. A slight gain in total viewers and 90% RAW retention, which is a bit higher than usual. #1 non news show in total viewers and #1 demo for all shows..


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Pathetic. Still can't beat the shit Raw numbers. Come on.


----------



## Arsenal79

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

You can't expect SmackDown to overtake RAW immediately. The ratings lag the product quality by weeks/months usually. However it's pretty clear that the Modern Day Maharaja will soon lead SmackDown above RAW! 

I just hope Vince doesn't draft the WWE Champion over to save RAW!


----------



## Dolorian

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Forget SD overtaking RAW, the brand split has been going on for over 10 months and SD is currently doing similar numbers to what they were doing before going live and lower numbers than what they were doing during football season last year. That's not a good thing.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 5/30/17 Vs 5/23/17 ):
2.350M Vs 2.328M ( + 0.022M / + 0.95% )
0.770D Vs 0.800D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.350M Vs 2.613M ( - 0.263M / 89.93% )
0.770D Vs 0.863D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 5/30/17 Vs 6/2/16 ):
2.350M Vs 2.169M ( + 0.181M / + 8.34% )
0.770D Vs 0.670D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.169M Vs 3.229M ( - 1.060M / 67.17% )
0.670D Vs 1.153D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

89% of RAW's demo. SDL reeling RAW in! :mark


----------



## volde

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Not good numbers, but SD has somewhat stabilized while Raw hasn't. Something tells me that big Cena return will happen on Raw.


----------



## Vyer

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



volde said:


> Not good numbers, but SD has somewhat stabilized while Raw hasn't. *Something tells me that big Cena return will happen on Raw.*


"The world will look up and shout 'Save us!"...and I'll look down and whisper 'You can't see me.'"


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SDL went from over 1 million total viewers behind RAW to only 263,000 in the course of a single year. They closed the gap by 797,000 viewers. :sodone


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



THE FRUMIOUS BANDERSNATCH said:


> SDL went from over 1 million total viewers behind RAW to only 263,000 in the course of a single year. They closed the gap by 797,000 viewers. :sodone


 Without John Cena no less :lol

Both numbers are bad, but they're not Raw levels of bad just yet.


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Jinder showing those geeks how to draw :mark:


----------



## machomanjohncena

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SD needs to #PushErickRowen


----------



## wwe9391

THE FRUMIOUS BANDERSNATCH said:


> SDL went from over 1 million total viewers behind RAW to only 263,000 in the course of a single year. They closed the gap by 797,000 viewers. :sodone


You can thank going live for that.


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Wait, so it's up on last week?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

wwe9391 said:


> You can thank going live for that.


I could, but I'll thank the mighty Maharaja instead.









Seriously, it's good that SDL is up year to year, but the overall trajectory for both shows is downwards.



Erik. said:


> Wait, so it's up on last week?


It's slightly higher in total viewers, 22,000, and down .03 in the 18-49 demo. It's effectively a wash.



Erik. said:


> Wait, so it's up on last week?


It's slightly higher in total viewers, 22,000, and down .03 in the 18-49 demo. It's effectively a wash.


----------



## Thanks12

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I hope they beat them next week.


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



THE FRUMIOUS BANDERSNATCH said:


> It's slightly higher in total viewers, 22,000, and down .03 in the 18-49 demo. It's effectively a wash.


Thanks. 

I didn't watch the show but I've enjoyed and found it alot more watchable than Raw recently, that's down to it being 2 hours more than anything though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

They maintained and grew the audience a little bit, which is a good thing considering last week's show was the PPV fallout. A potentially good sign for the Jinder reign, to a degree. Number is still really low and this may just be near as low as it's going to go for the near future.

What's going to be interesting is in the next month or two, once we're a year into the brand split, we can start comparing these numbers to last year's live show numbers.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Going out on a limb here and predict SDL does slightly more than 80% of RAW's audience.


----------



## DammitChrist

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I think Raw and Smackdown deserve an increase in ratings this time. Both shows were solid this week.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 6/6/17 Vs 5/30/17 ):
2.349M Vs 2.350M ( - 0.001M / - 0.0043% )
0.740D Vs 0.770D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.349M Vs 2.994M ( - 0.645M / 78.46% )
0.740D Vs 1.037D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 6/6/17 Vs 6/9/16 ):
2.349M Vs 1.996M ( + 0.353M / + 17.69% )
0.740D Vs 0.570D

SDL Vs RAW:
1.996M Vs 3.255M ( - 1.259M / 61.32% )
0.570D Vs 1.137D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## Dolorian

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Lower rating than last week.


----------



## BeckyLynchFan29

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

the ratings will not improve until they get the title off of Jinder.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Total viewers was virtually identical with the demo slightly down. Didn't reach 80% of RAW which could be attributable to the post ppv bump. Nothing to get excited for or too upset about with these stagnant ratings. I always wonder what the floor is for both shows?


----------



## CMPunkRock316

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

How close does it get to Raw this week? With Raw being awful past 8:15


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It might be able to hit 90% of RAW, but SDL seems inextricably linked to RAW and hovers around 80% retention rate, regardless of quality.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 6/13/17 Vs 6/6/17 ):
2.072M Vs 2.349M ( - 0.277M / - 11.79% )
0.630D Vs 0.740D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.072M Vs 2.542M ( - 0.470M / 81.51% )
0.630D Vs 0.860D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 14th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 6/13/17 Vs 6/16/16 ):
2.072M Vs 2.073M ( - 0.001M / - 0.05% )
0.630D Vs 0.600D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.073M Vs 2.970M ( - 0.897M / 69.80% )
0.600D Vs 0.980D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 4th by viewership.*


----------



## Chrome

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Damn, viewership was a tad bit higher last year when the show was taped. Not a good sign.


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

They lost just UNDER 350,000 viewers? Fucking hell.


----------



## A-C-P

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

:sadbecky


That ESPN 30 for 30 on Lakers/Celtics drew alot better than I thought it would :wow


----------



## volde

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Looks like nobody gives a shit about pointless 3vs3 tag matches.


----------



## Jam

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

So Jinder says how Orton can't face him like a man & he's always hiding in the weeds. So what does Orton do? RKO him from behind

I can't buy his promos though man, it's the tone I think..

Corbin has to be winning MITB right? Losing all over the place...MITB booking right there


----------



## Dolorian

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

80% again. Not surprised. Methinks the free agent needs to stay on SDL.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Brutally bad. They're almost in the one millions and no nba to blame here. Yikes.


----------



## God Movement

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Wait, people think Cena can save the ratings? Brock didn't for Raw. But Cena can for Smackdown? No-one cares about WWE as a whole.

:lawler


----------



## xxRambo_21xx

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



God Movement said:


> Wait, people think Cena can save the ratings? Brock didn't for Raw. But Cena can for Smackdown? No-one cares about WWE as a whole.
> 
> :lawler


Ratings were highest when AJ Styles was champ and we had a good IC title feud. it really isnt that complicated. put the belt on styles and have him feud with orton. they have enough talent for a good IC title scene too. oh and take those fruit loop new day off tv


----------



## Demolition119

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Getting closer and closer to those Spike TV era TNA ratings. Just how low will they go? They better start getting their shit together. The NFL season is just around the corner.


----------



## The XL 2

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The business is taking its last few breaths. You can't bleed viewership like this and survive.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Teddy Long's dream of a tag team paradise was repudiated. :mj2

Both shows are plummeting. Wonder which show will receive the most attention from Vince? It's gonna be RAW.


----------



## A-C-P

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I sure hope putting the WWE Title on Jinder is creating all kinds of new business and revenue in India :bosque


----------



## InexorableJourney

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It's time for the big gun, Vince McMahon returning.. ..for a big announcement.


----------



## squarebox

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It's actually time to pull the plug.


----------



## the_hound

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

couldn't happen to a nicer company, seriously hope it gets a lot worse for this rancid stale product they think putting out every monday and tuesday is acceptable

is it fuck


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Can't spin a .63 demo. That's not good for WWE, even being second best of the night. :dead2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Good, this is what they get for not giving me Rusev a few weeks ago. This was bound to happen. People are waiting for the super athlete to return and claim his title (or they better be).

WWE needs to have Rusev just go out there during the MITB match, slaughter everyone, grab the briefcase, and get out of the building. Then return after the main event and destroy whoever the champion is. Then bully the ref into accepting the briefcase and doing the match. Then he wins the WWE Title. While everyone is wondering why Shane McMahon isn't stopping it, let's just say Rusev made sure he wouldn't be a problem. That leads to a Summerslam feud between the two for the title where you give Rusev a high profile program, they can play up Shane having one chance at the top championship of his brand (if Vince has won it before, Shane can certainly compete for it), and then that could be used to give Rusev a big win at Summerslam.

It'll never happen, and maybe it's not perfect, but it's certainly better than the bland shit we've been getting as WWE Title program.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Ratings finally reflecting the quality of CrapDown :drose

The title is on a jobber and feels irrelevant, no feud other than the tag title match is being built well.

As for the WWE title feud, it's laughable. And LOL at all the tag matches for MITB. The show has nothing but Breezango and Usos going for it, making it impossible to watch.


----------



## JC00

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



xxRambo_21xx said:


> Ratings were highest when AJ Styles was champ and we had a good IC title feud. it really isnt that complicated. put the belt on styles and have him feud with orton. they have enough talent for a good IC title scene too. oh and take those fruit loop new day off tv


 AJ, Ambrose, Orton and Bray all drew well as champions. Problem now is the title is oin a jobber and the show feels second rate. SD feels like filler where nothing happens each week.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

WWE'S ratings?

And just like that they're gone.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Chrome said:


> Damn, viewership was a tad bit higher last year when the show was taped. Not a good sign.


 Brand split may be finally coming to an end. The split was a big mistake, it's better to have one roster with the main stuff on Raw and the irrelevant feuds + hot feuds where you have segments for on SD.


----------



## Chrome

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Ace said:


> Brand split may be finally coming to an end. The split was a big mistake, it's better to have one roster with the main stuff on Raw and the irrelevant feuds + hot feuds where you have segments for on SD.


Well, the main reason they did it imo was to make Smackdown more important and increase its ratings. The fact that it drew WORSE than last year when last year was taped is a little embarrassing tbh. USA can't be too thrilled about it.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ShowStopper said:


> Brutally bad. They're almost in the one millions and no nba to blame here. Yikes.


 Under 70% retention from Raw (up against Game 5) :kobelol

Looks like it will be SD that dies first, please do keep the title on Jinder till September. It guarantees that this shit split will end up October.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

They did have an ad for Roman's announcement, so I'm hanging this on the FOTC. :reigns2


----------



## Dolorian

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Word is that Vince got into an argument with Cena over the phone because he refused to return before July 4th...


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Chrome said:


> Well, the main reason they did it imo was to make Smackdown more important and increase its ratings. The fact that it drew WORSE than last year when last year was taped is a little embarrassing tbh. USA can't be too thrilled about it.


 Are you surprised? SD hasn't felt important in MONTHS, they even put a title on jobber to really tank it. I mean WTF, people gave him a chance but they're now realizing it's not going to work. But it's not all on Jinder, the booking and writing on SD has been as bad, if not worse than Raw. Losing 350,000 in one week is not easy to do.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Dolorian said:


> Word is that Vince got into an argument with Cena over the phone because he refused to return before July 4th...


 If Cena doesn't pop a rating for Juily 4th, they're finished. If Cena can't pop a rating, no one (other than Rock) can.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Ace said:


> Under 70% retention from Raw (up against Game 5) :kobelol
> 
> Looks like it will be SD that dies first, please do keep the title on Jinder till September. It guarantees that this shit split will end up October.


RAW retention was over 80% as it usually is, +/- a couple of points. *2.072M Vs 2.542M ( - 0.470M / 81.51% )
*

The better or worse RAW does seems to dictate SDL's ratings. They share the same audience and are joined at the hip.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



THE FRUMIOUS BANDERSNATCH said:


> RAW retention was over 80% as it usually is, +/- a couple of points. *2.072M Vs 2.542M ( - 0.470M / 81.51% )
> *
> 
> The better or worse RAW does seems to dictate SDL's ratings. They share the same audience and are joined at the hip.


 My bad, read the wrong number.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I'm interested in seeing what would happen if the cord between the two shows is severed. If SDL starts holding let's say 60% ôf a declining RAW audience, you'd have to think that Vince would hit the panic button.


----------



## V-Trigger

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I can't wait for the negotiations with USA Network in 2019... Vince is gonna get shit on wens3


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



THE FRUMIOUS BANDERSNATCH said:


> I'm interested in seeing what would happen if the cord between the two shows is severed. If SDL starts holding let's say 60% ôf a declining RAW audience, you'd have to think that Vince would hit the panic button.


 You reckon they'll change plans and have Orton take the title off Jinder? I know Jinder hasn't had much a chance, but he's a big reason why the show is hurting. He wasn't built up to be champion and he's been dying out there since the Punjabi celebration.


----------



## Chrome

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Ace said:


> You reckon they'll change plans and have Orton take the title off Jinder? I know Jinder hasn't had much a chance, but he's a big reason why the show is hurting. He wasn't built up to be champion and he's been dying out there since the Punjabi celebration.


Orton wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire when he was champion to be fair. Could see them putting the belt back on Cena when he returns.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Chrome said:


> Orton wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire when he was champion to be fair. Could see them putting the belt back on Cena when he returns.


 I can't see them wasting 17 on Jinder, which leaves Orton, Nakamura, AJ or KO.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Ace said:


> You reckon they'll change plans and have Orton take the title off Jinder? I know Jinder hasn't had much a chance, but he's a big reason why the show is hurting. He wasn't built up to be champion and he's been dying out there since the Punjabi celebration.


No, Jinder is a small part of this. It's a group effort. Imagine they'll continue until the free agent snatches the title bald.


----------



## The_Jiz

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Its getting harder and harder to rebound from a bad rating. 

Someone tell Vince those that don't tune in to the current week have a bad chance of coming back next week. 

Or don't tell Vince which ever gets his head out of his rear quicker.


----------



## JDP2016

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Couldn't happen to a nicer company.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Mauro announced that he's commentating for Conor/Mayweather :sodone

Few months back he commentated Joshua/Wlad.

Hold this L, Vince :heyman6


----------



## Zigglerpops

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SD ratings don't matter, If they did Vinny Mac would not be trying to hijack his own show


----------



## The XL 2

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It's unfair to blame Jinder for this shit show, both shows ratings are shit, and Mahal has done about 80 percent of the raw viewership, same as anyone else. No one outside Cena is going to draw any better than that.


----------



## Mra22

The XL 2 said:


> It's unfair to blame Jinder for this shit show, both shows ratings are shit, and Mahal has done about 80 percent of the raw viewership, same as anyone else. No one outside Cena is going to draw any better than that.


Dude when are you and the other Jinder marks gonna realize that this guy FREAKING SUCKS! He's terrible with his monotone promos and garbage wrestling.


----------



## Adarsh santhosh

After WrestleMania 33 with Orton as champion had 3 something rating then this jobber came along and now ratings are down the toilet.
Just give us AJ vs Orton


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> While Raw clearly had the excuse for its low number this week, Smackdown didn’t. The 6/13 show did 2,072,000 viewers, the second lowest number since moving to Tuesday live.
> 
> The lowest was the 11/8 show that did 1,921,000 viewers, which was the night of the presidential election. This had no sports competition at all, so the decline of 12 percent from last week has no real explanation past the product itself.
> 
> The show was 16th for the day on cable, the lowest I can ever recall the program doing, but that low level was more because of how up the news stations were. But it’s doubtful it was the news, since the major declines from last week were those under the age of 35.
> 
> The show did a 0.43 in 12-17 (down 23.2 percent), 0.43 in18-34 (down 20.3 percent), 0.83 in 35-49 (down 11.7 percent) and 0.92 in 50+ (down 4.2 percent).
> 
> The show did 53.8 percent males in 18-49 and 60.8 percent males in 12-17.


----------



## ThePhenomenal-1

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Not surprised, Smackdown live has become shite after the royal rumble and im not only saying this as an AJ mark. After the cena vs AJ rivalary for the world title, the world title has gone to shit. The wyatt vs orton program was horrible and now this jinder vs orton program is a bore too. The fact that the world champ hasnt main evented a Smackdown live since winning it says it all about the booking in this company.


----------



## Randy Lahey

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

16th on cable? lolololololololol...only 150,000 more viewers than the show against the ELECTION? lololololololol... 

Smackdown could very easily get cancelled. I mean, why is USA paying mega dollars for that show when reruns of The Office, Community, or Parks and Rec could beat 16th on cable for 1/10 of the price...


----------



## volde

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ThePhenomenal-1 said:


> Not surprised, Smackdown live has become shite after the royal rumble and im not only saying this as an AJ mark. After the cena vs AJ rivalary for the world title, the world title has gone to shit. The wyatt vs orton program was horrible and now this jinder vs orton program is a bore too. The fact that the world champ hasnt main evented a Smackdown live since winning it says it all about the booking in this company.


I wouldn't say that it was just the Rumble. AJ had some decent stuff leading up to WM (and his WM match was better than anyone expected), some people were also hopeful that Bray will retain against Orton. 

But WM, for the most part, was really bad for SD (did anyone seriously expected Bray/Orton WM match to be THAT bad?). Shake-up was a mess and now basically everyone is involved in pointless feuds.


----------



## The_Jiz

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Ya know the rise of Mahal was as if the McMahons just found out he was of indian descent before they slapped the belt on him the night before he walked out the curtain.


----------



## The Wood

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The booking of SmackDown does read a lot like the circus that was WCW towards the end. Jeff Jarrett wasn't a complete jobber when he won the WCW Title, but he probably speaks Punjabi slightly better than Jinder Mahal.


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Holy shit those numbers are horrible.

But the buildup to MITB has been quite horrible, so it is understandable.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SD gonna get cancelled baby :WOO

And fuck Vince, he deserves to see his product die.


----------



## Dan be Cilley

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Are we no longer pretending that Jinder Mahal's inherent value is anything other than 'ironically good/so bad he's entertaining?'

Objectively speaking, the dude fucking sucks. I haven't been watching Smackdown, but I have been making a habit of checking out Jinder's promos - for the lulz.


----------



## chronoxiong

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Something must be done to increase these ratings. This is sad. I used to be proud to watch RAW and Smackdown. Now, it's a chore and a borderline mess to get through.


----------



## Will Thompson

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Fucking hell. Those numbers are absolutely cancellation worthy. When a show with no absolutely no competition across the board is 16th on the night with the 2nd lowest figures since the brand split, you know their is something inherently wrong with the product as a whole. And you can bet your ass, the executives at USA network are going to be in the WWE's ear. If they aren't then they need to be fired as well.

Now that the surprise factor around Jinder being the champion has worn off, I am not surprised the ratings have begun to fall. The WWE title feud involves a perennial jobber and a guy who doesn't draw any more. With AJ floundering in the mid card since Wrestlemania and Cena and Jericho gone, Smackdown has a dearth of big draws. 

I think we might be reaching threshold levels as far as WWE ratings are concerned. Something needs to be done right now otherwise the figures might soon drop to levels where it is no longer viable for the USA network to have both Raw and Smackdown on air while paying them the figures they are. It is a bittersweet as a wrestling and WWE fan, but you wonder if something so dramatic as a realistic possibility of USA cancelling Smackdown or offering a much lower Television deal come 2019 is needed for WWE to start concentrating on delivering a better product to its fans.


----------



## V-Trigger

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Ace said:


> SD gonna get cancelled baby :WOO
> 
> And fuck Vince, he deserves to see his product die.


Do you wanna see AJ and Nak get lost in the Roman show?.


----------



## Will Thompson

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Dolorian said:


> Word is that Vince got into an argument with Cena over the phone because he refused to return before July 4th...


 Hmmm. Wouldn't be surprised if this is true. Their have been consistent ramblings of Cena being unhappy with how WWE take him for granted while offering mega money to part-timers like Goldberg, Brock and Undertaker despite them making only a handful of appearances.

For someone who has a visible impact on WWE's house show and Tv numbers, is their biggest merchandise seller by far and provides so much positive PR for the WWE through his media and charity work (He mentions WWE everywhere he goes when he doesn't need to), you can understand why he would have an issue with WWE not valuing his contributions.

And the truth is he is almost at the point where WWE needs him a lot more than he needs them. HE is constantly being asked for projects whenever he has downtime from the WWE nowadays. He will likely never come close to Rock levels of success, but he has enough mainstream appeal, charisma and talent to find success in whatever he does whether it be movies, Tv shows, hosting or else. 

But if I am being perfectly honest, I don't see even Cena making much of a difference to the ratings of Raw and Smackdown when he returns. The WWE product is littered with flaws and unless they can change the direction in which their shows are headed and the way their superstars are booked, I can't see even Cena and Rock making a significant (And consistent) difference to their viewership figures. 

Cena is returning to television on one of WWE's weakest nights of the year and if he doesn't move the needle over the weeks ahead, then God knows the kind of trouble WWE are going to be in come fall when football and popular Television shows are back on air.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



BrotherNero said:


> Do you wanna see AJ and Nak get lost in the Roman show?.


 I want to see AJ and Nakamura elsewhere, they're killing them in the WWE.


----------



## JDP2016

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Ace said:


> Mauro announced that he's commentating for Conor/Mayweather :sodone
> 
> Few months back he commentated Joshua/Wlad.
> 
> Hold this L, Vince :heyman6


Great news for him. It's always nice to hear about someone having success after WWE.


----------



## InexorableJourney

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

It's a shame USA Network didn't structure their WWE TV contract based on viewers, because you know if WWE had lost 40% of its TV income, change would (finally) happen.


----------



## Algernon

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The numbers shows theres little to no brand loyalty here. First of all, having Cena return on 4th of JUly for ratings purposes is totally stupid. The audience always shrinks for holidays. At best, Cena will save it from hitting an all time low.

And I hope WWE doesn't get fucked in the negotiations with USA in 2019. All I want USA or any other interested network to say to Vince is I want 2 hours for both shows. The thought of Smackdown being cancelled and having one 3 hour RAW show for an entire roster is far worse than what we have now.


----------



## JDP2016

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Algernon said:


> The numbers shows theres little to no brand loyalty here. First of all, having Cena return on 4th of JUly for ratings purposes is totally stupid. The audience always shrinks for holidays. At best, Cena will save it from hitting an all time low.
> 
> And I hope WWE doesn't get fucked in the negotiations with USA in 2019. All I want USA or any other interested network to say to Vince is I want 2 hours for both shows. The thought of Smackdown being cancelled and having one 3 hour RAW show for an entire roster is far worse than what we have now.


Maybe less television is a good thing? It could lead to wrestlers not getting over exposed and make for a better product.


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Just saw the ratings this week for Smackdown 

:ha and people call this the A show? Please


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



JDP2016 said:


> Maybe less television is a good thing? It could lead to wrestlers not getting over exposed and make for a better product.


 Wrestlers not booked for Raw could work house shows :draper2

You know things are really bad when you can realistically see one show being cancelled.


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Ace said:


> I want to see AJ and Nakamura elsewhere, they're killing them in the WWE.


They are not leaving wwe anytime if ever. 


Even with low ratings WWE still has more money than all wrestling feds combined. 

No one else could afford them now TBH


----------



## famicommander

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



wwe9391 said:


> They are not leaving wwe anytime if ever.
> 
> 
> Even with low ratings WWE still has more money than all wrestling feds combined.
> 
> No one else could afford them now TBH


Okada makes as much as a top 5 WWE guy, per Dave Meltzer. Obviously WWE still has way more money and that's why AJ and Nakamura went there, but that doesn't mean they're going to stay in WWE forever. Cody Rhodes left for NJPW/ROH. Alberto left for Impact. The Young Bucks turned down WWE to stay in ROH/NJPW. Omega turned them down to stay in NJPW.

WWE is still the biggest by a wide margin, but the other major promotions (NJPW, ROH, AAA, CMLL, Impact, LU) and the indies are viable ways for wrestlers to make a living, and the biggest stars can even earn close to WWE money with far fewer dates and far more creative control.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



wwe9391 said:


> They are not leaving wwe anytime if ever.
> 
> 
> Even with low ratings WWE still has more money than all wrestling feds combined.
> 
> No one else could afford them now TBH


 AJ and Nakamura can use their WWE fame to elevate other companies, both could work the indys as well. Then there's the merch deals which will give them a greater take from sales. Omega and the Bucks are selling merch at hot topic now.


----------



## wwe9391

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Ace said:


> AJ and Nakamura can use their WWE fame to elevate other companies, both could work the indys as well. Then there's the merch deals which will give them a greater take from sales. Omega and the Bucks are selling merch at hot topic now.


Yea thats not gonna happen. Especially with AJ.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



wwe9391 said:


> Yea thats not gonna happen. Especially with AJ.


 The WWE is a sinking ship.


----------



## CesaroSwing

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Ace said:


> The WWE is a sinking ship.


It's also the only ship. He's guaranteed to make huge money and have his fans actually watch him in the WWE.


----------



## wwe9391

Ace said:


> The WWE is a sinking ship.


Only in ratings. They are pretty much successful in every other department.
WWE is not going anywhere for a long long time. 

Even if they were as bad as you say they are. They are still light years ahead of every wrestling promotion out there. That's what happens when you have a monopoly on the pro wrestling market. 

AJ and Naka are pretty much wwe for the rest of their career. Especially with their age and everything. It's the place where they can make the most money and see those families more more than they did before.



famicommander said:


> Okada makes as much as a top 5 WWE guy, per Dave Meltzer. Obviously WWE still has way more money and that's why AJ and Nakamura went there, but that doesn't mean they're going to stay in WWE forever. Cody Rhodes left for NJPW/ROH. Alberto left for Impact. The Young Bucks turned down WWE to stay in ROH/NJPW. Omega turned them down to stay in NJPW.
> 
> WWE is still the biggest by a wide margin, but the other major promotions (NJPW, ROH, AAA, CMLL, Impact, LU) and the indies are viable ways for wrestlers to make a living, and the biggest stars can even earn close to WWE money with far fewer dates and far more creative control.


If you are in this buissness to make money than WWE is where you need to be. All those guys you mentioned left WWE and are making less than they were. That's not a smart buissness decision.


----------



## TripleG

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Oh what? That Jinder Mahal title reign isn't bringing in the numbers? I'm so shocked!

You'd think putting a World Title on an established jobber would have had people come in droves!


----------



## God Movement

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Ratings when?


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 6/20/17 Vs 6/13/17 ):
2.597M Vs 2.072M ( + 0.525M / + 25.34% )
0.850D Vs 0.630D

SDL Vs RAW:
3.102M Vs 2.597M ( - 0.505M / 83.72% )
1.070D Vs 0.850D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 4th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 6/20/17 Vs 6/23/16 ):
2.597M Vs 2.145M ( + 0.452M / + 21.07% )
0.850D Vs 0.670D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.145M Vs 3.467M ( - 1.322M / 61.87% )
0.670D Vs 1.280D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 5th by viewership.*


----------



## God Movement

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Expected gain.


----------



## Sweggeh

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Overall, its safe to say that at best Jinder Mahal has been a positive on WWE ratings, and at worst things have stayed about the same.

Their decision to put the title on him seems vindicated thus far.


----------



## God Movement

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Well, it's not so much that. It's that no one superstar is a clear draw. Cena will have to prove he's a draw when he comes back. If the ratings do not show a clear boost, then he is not either. The brand draws. They need a superstar who transcends the WWE name to pull in more than the norm.


----------



## A-C-P

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The Return of Daniel Bryan bringing in them viewers


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

next week will have a mitb match so I think more will tune in, and Cena shows up the week after

that is a not wholly unexpected, but still big gain; nothing extraordinary but decent


----------



## Mordecay

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

My boy :harper is a draw :grin2:

In all honesty, between the controversy of the MITB womens match and Bryan's return it was expected a gain in audience. That and usually when RAW gets a major boost in ratings like it had this week SD usually gets benefited as well.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Lame.

If only the quality of show affected ratings.

Seems like last weeks number was simply an aberration 

The biggest reason behind the increase was Raw's rise in ratings, usually SD does 80% of Raw's numbers. Raw had a big bump this week so obviously the number SD did would increase.

Next weeks women's MITB will give a good indication of whether the controversy drew or not.


----------



## IceTheRetroKid

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Ace said:


> Lame.
> 
> If only the quality of show affected ratings.
> 
> Seems like last weeks number was simply an aberration
> 
> The biggest reason behind the increase was Raw's rise in ratings, usually SD does 80% of Raw's numbers. Raw had a big bump this week so obviously the number SD did would increase.
> 
> Next weeks women's MITB will give a good indication of whether the controversy drew or not.


*The quality of the show actually does affect ratings!

More so what is usually advertised or built ahead of time.

MITB had a bunch of screw finishes that made people wonder what was going to happen later, especially the womens MITB.

When you put on TV for weeks where nothing progresses much but then have finishes that force the viewer to have to continue watching to get closure, then you're going to get an increase in TV. So technically, it is something that affects ratings, it's just that it went from very little writing continuity, to suddenly a bunch of things being set up. Which is an improvement.*


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



IceTheRetroKid said:


> *The quality of the show actually does affect ratings!
> 
> More so what is usually advertised or built ahead of time.
> 
> MITB had a bunch of screw finishes that made people wonder what was going to happen later, especially the womens MITB.
> 
> When you put on TV for weeks where nothing progresses much but then have finishes that force the viewer to have to continue watching to get closure, then you're going to get an increase in TV. So technically, it is something that affects ratings, it's just that it went from very little writing continuity, to suddenly a bunch of things being set up. Which is an improvement.*


 That's just sad, they might use these ratings to fuck up more PPV finishes because it 'draws' fpalm


----------



## IceTheRetroKid

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Ace said:


> That's just sad, they might use these ratings to fuck up more PPV finishes because it 'draws' fpalm


*BUT IT WORKED IN THE ATTITUDE ERA BRO, REMEMBER WHEN I ENDED A PPV WITH AUSTIN DQ'ING BOTH TAKER AND KANE FOR THE WWF TITLE? YOU HAD TO TUNE IN TOMORROW TO SEE THAT RESOLVED BRO. :russo*


----------



## Strategize

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

On one hand the increase is good because their angle worked. 

On the other hand, this will give them the excuse to pull this shit every PPV, so it's bad.


----------



## IceTheRetroKid

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*I've noticed SDL doing that kind of booking more than RAW since the Brand Split, where instead of booking towards PPVs, it uses PPVs to book towards TV, is Road Dogg just more attitude era minded with those kind of finishes?*


----------



## Y.2.J

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Healthy bump. This week not so dreadful as last week. RAW back to 3M+ and SDL just shy of 2.6M which is 20% more than last year.

Bryan and the MITB controversy definitely helped. We'll see if it continues.


----------



## BehindYou

Ace said:


> That's just sad, they might use these ratings to fuck up more PPV finishes because it 'draws' fpalm


 Well is it to bump ratings or is it to build storylines/feuds? 

After watching SD I think that especially the finish of the women's match was the right decision. Carmella got so much more heat because of how that match ended.


----------



## Arsenal79

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



TripleG said:


> Oh what? That Jinder Mahal title reign isn't bringing in the numbers? I'm so shocked!
> 
> You'd think putting a World Title on an established jobber would have had people come in droves!


Where's your comment after last week's numbers? You and your fellow haters are pathetic. The ratings have nothing to do with Jinder, yet when they go down you spew your worthless opinions, and when they go up you're nowhere to be found. 

Obviously the MAHARAJA is responsible for the massive increase this week!


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 6/27/17 Vs 6/20/17 ):
2.603M Vs 2.597M ( + 0.006M / + 0.23% )
0.830D Vs 0.850D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.603M Vs 2.977M ( - 0.374M / 87.44% )
0.830D Vs 1.043D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 6/27/17 Vs 6/30/16 ):
2.603M Vs 2.080M ( + 0.523M / + 25.14% )
0.830D Vs 0.630D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.080M Vs 3.093M ( - 1.013M / 67.25% )
0.630D Vs 1.120D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## Chrome

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Not much of a jump tbh given the Women's MITB match.


----------



## The_Jiz

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

They had 87% of Raw's audience. Thats sounds like a first. MITB definitely did its work. 

Still SDL doesn't deserve it.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Wow. It's getting closer to Raw numbers. Raw better look out


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

You would think the MITB women's match would result in a bigger increase, but SD usually loses viewers when RAW does so I guess it kind of worked.


----------



## Y.2.J

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I'm happy numbers are up, just this episode truly didn't deserve it.


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 6/27 was basically identical with the week before, doing 2,603,000 viewers, the best number for the show since 4/11. It was up 6,000 viewers.
> 
> The increase last week was coming of the Money in the Bank PPV and the return of Daniel Bryan. I expected better this week since they built the show around a women’s Money in the Bank rematch and pushed it as a loaded up show with four advertised matches ahead of time.
> 
> Smackdown was third for the night on cable. It beat the College World Series no ESPN, which did 2,007,000 viewers.
> 
> The show did a 0.69 in 12-17 (up 21.1 percent), 0.67 in 18-34 (up 3.1 percent), 0.99 in 35-49 (down 5.7 percent) and 1.00 in 50+ (down 3.8 percent).
> 
> That pretty much indicates that the women’s Money in the Bank was a huge deal to teenagers, and in particular, teenage girls, but once you got past the age of 35, it meant a lot less.
> 
> It also drew a higher percentage of women, as the male audience was 57.0 percent in 18-49 and only 54.8 percent in 12-17.


----------



## Mra22

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Arsenal79 said:


> Where's your comment after last week's numbers? You and your fellow haters are pathetic. The ratings have nothing to do with Jinder, yet when they go down you spew your worthless opinions, and when they go up you're nowhere to be found.
> 
> Obviously the MAHARAJA is responsible for the massive increase this week!


You are seriously such an annoying troll man.... fpalm


----------



## ElTerrible

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



The Figure 4 said:


> Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter
> 
> Smackdown on 6/27 was basically identical with the week before, doing 2,603,000 viewers, the best number for the show since 4/11. It was up 6,000 viewers.
> 
> The increase last week was coming of the Money in the Bank PPV and the return of Daniel Bryan. I expected better this week since they built the show around a women’s Money in the Bank rematch and pushed it as a loaded up show with four advertised matches ahead of time.
> 
> Smackdown was third for the night on cable. It beat the College World Series no ESPN, which did 2,007,000 viewers.
> 
> The show did a 0.69 in 12-17 (up 21.1 percent), 0.67 in 18-34 (up 3.1 percent), 0.99 in 35-49 (down 5.7 percent) and 1.00 in 50+ (down 3.8 percent).
> 
> That pretty much indicates that the women’s Money in the Bank was a huge deal to teenagers, and in particular, teenage girls, but once you got past the age of 35, it meant a lot less.
> 
> It also drew a higher percentage of women, as the male audience was 57.0 percent in 18-49 and only 54.8 percent in 12-17.


The ladies dig the Ellsworth. :ghost


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I wonder if the ratings were up simply because Raw put on an entertaining show the previous night - Smackdown itself wasn't anywhere near the level of Raw or as good as it had been at the beginning of the draft, but it's still the same fans as Raw tuning in.


----------



## Dolorian

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Erik. said:


> I wonder if the ratings were up simply because Raw put on an entertaining show the previous night - Smackdown itself wasn't anywhere near the level of Raw or as good as it had been at the beginning of the draft, but it's still the same fans as Raw tuning in.


Well the ratings for RAW this week were down from last week while SD's saw a small increase so I am not sure how much if any of that can be attributed to RAW. The whole thing with LaVar and the attention it got _could_ have probably pushed some viewers to tune in to SD but it is certainly hard to tell. The second MITB women's match was the big thing they advertised in advance and judging by the demographics it would seem it was a key factor.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 7/4/17 Vs 6/27/17 ):
2.329M Vs 2.603M ( - 0.274M / - 10.53% )
0.750D Vs 0.830D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.329M Vs 2.839M ( - 0.510M / 82.04% )
0.750D Vs 0.923D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 1st by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 7/4/17 Vs 7/7/16 ):
2.329M Vs 2.241M ( + 0.088M / + 3.93% )
0.750D Vs 0.680D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.241M Vs 2.658M ( - 0.417M / 84.31% )
0.680D Vs 0.933D

Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 15th by viewership.*


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Considerable drop, but it was the 4th of July. Might have been much worse without Cena's return.


----------



## God Movement

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

We're still pretending Cena is this huge draw?

Oh.


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Better than pretending Joe Anoai is a draw.


----------



## A-C-P

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Watching Fireworks > Watching WWE :cena


----------



## God Movement

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Raw-Is-Botchamania said:


> Better than pretending Joe Anoai is a draw.


Wow, you really are _incredibly_ butthurt.

Must be the Roman PTSD, considering I have never called Roman Reigns a draw.

:ha


----------



## squarebox

*Re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here &amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt; THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

:lmao :lmao no Cena return bump.

Advertised for over a month and nobody gave a shit, and who can blame them.


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

*Re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Draw Talk Here &amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt; THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



squarebox said:


> :lmao :lmao no Cena return bump.
> 
> Advertised for over a month and nobody gave a shit, and who can blame them.


At this point, expecting Cena to draw on TV, is like people expecting Hogan to draw in 2000 WCW.


----------



## Little Miss Ingobernable

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Most people were out celebrating MURICA with family and friends than watching WWE (I'm including myself in that). Not even :cena could save it.


----------



## xxRambo_21xx

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

wwe has some loser fans who would rather watch smackdown over celebrating the 4th of july. pathetic


----------



## The Figure 4

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter



> Smackdown on 7/4 did 2,329,000 viewers, which is an amazing number for July 4th and down only 11 percent from the prior week.
> 
> The last time Raw was on 7/4, which was last year, the number dropped 15 percent. In other years, the number has dropped as much as 40 percent. The lesser drop than usual also indicates far less of a casual audience and them being down more to the hardcores than at any time in history.
> 
> The second most-watched show on cable that night, a Tucker Carlson special on Fox News, did 1,536,000 viewers.
> 
> The audience was way down under the age of 35, but it wasn’t down much at all among viewers older than 35. Interesting because you’d think of the Cena audience as being stronger under 35, but it’s the under 35 audience more apt to not be home on July 4th watching television.
> 
> The show did a 0.55 in 12-17 (down 20.3 percent), 0.55 in 18-34 (down 17.9 percent), 0.95 in 35-49 (down 4.0 percent) and 0.96 in 50+ (down 4.0 percent).
> 
> The audience was 59.3 percent male in 18-49 and 67.9 percent male in 12-17.


---



> Tuesday night's Fourth of July edition of SmackDown on the USA Network averaged 2.329 million viewers, down 11 percent from last week but right in line with what the show was doing just over a month ago.
> 
> For a comparison, Raw was down 14 percent last year when the show fell on the July 4th holiday. SmackDown likely held up a little better than expected due to the highly publicized return of John Cena.
> 
> SmackDown was first for the night in viewers on cable television by quite a wide margin, with no other shows cracking the 1.8 million barrier. The episode was also first in the 18-49 demo with a 0.75 rating, which was much higher than the second place Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest on ESPN2.
> 
> The show was up in the year-over-year ratings as the July 7th, 2016 episode of SmackDown did 2.241 million viewers for the taped show on Thursday night.
> 
> Here's a look at SmackDown ratings in 2017 as compared to Raw from the same week. As per usual, the show retained between 80 and 90 percent of the Raw audience from the previous night:


http://www.f4wonline.com/wwe-news/wwe-smackdown-ratings-drop-only-11-percent-fourth-july-238716


----------



## Mra22

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I worked then got off and launched fireworks. I ended up watching the show later on.


----------



## AlternateDemise

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



God Movement said:


> We're still pretending Cena is this huge draw?
> 
> Oh.





Raw-Is-Botchamania said:


> At this point, expecting Cena to draw on TV, is like people expecting Hogan to draw in 2000 WCW.





squarebox said:


> :lmao :lmao no Cena return bump.
> 
> Advertised for over a month and nobody gave a shit, and who can blame them.



It was on the fourth of July...the Holiday that usually takes away the most viewers based on their ratings history on that day. 

Seriously people, it's not that difficult to comprehend.


----------



## squarebox

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



AlternateDemise said:


> It was on the fourth of July...the Holiday that usually takes away the most viewers based on their ratings history on that day.
> 
> Seriously people, it's not that difficult to comprehend.


OK, then we should expect to see a decent bump with Cena back this week then. I'll hold you to that. And no, I don't mean a bump from this past week, but from weeks prior to the 4th of July holiday. If Cena is still the draw some of you still think he is, then there should be a substantial bump from now on.


----------



## validreasoning

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Last time SD fell on July 4th the show lost 900,000 viewers weekly over week, this time the drop was 1/3 of that

If Cena hadn't been advertised I doubt SD does more than 1.5 million this past week. even meltzer said that the show would have drawn over 3 million were his return to happen either side of July 4th.

Obviously next week won't have the same effect. When WWE advertised Batista's return it popped a rating that first week and numbers fell after that and that was with Batista gone for four years not 3 months like Cena.


----------



## squarebox

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



validreasoning said:


> Last time SD fell on July 4th the show lost 900,000 viewers weekly over week, this time the drop was 1/3 of that
> 
> If Cena hadn't been advertised I doubt SD does more than 1.5 million this past week. even meltzer said that the show would have drawn over 3 million were his return to happen either side of July 4th.
> 
> Obviously next week won't have the same effect. When WWE advertised Batista's return it popped a rating that first week and numbers fell after that and that was with Batista gone for four years not 3 months like Cena.


Well by that reasoning, if ratings shoot back up after a slack July 4th holiday episode, but stay roughly the same as they have been the past few months, then that still means Cena isn't the draw that people think he still is.


----------



## validreasoning

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



squarebox said:


> ^ Exactly so you can't claim someone is a draw just because they apparently 'drew' for one week.


Nobody is a draw so. Brock, undertaker or Goldberg didn't increase viewership weekly this year. Austin, Hogan and rocks last appearances didn't either

Anyway 'draw' in pro wrestling doesn't refer to viewership it refers to money drawn which Cena is clearly number one on the planet right now if you discount the rock who hasn't worked a match in over 4 years.


----------



## squarebox

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



validreasoning said:


> Nobody is a draw so. Brock, undertaker or Goldberg didn't increase viewership weekly this year. Austin, Hogan and rocks last appearances didn't either
> 
> Anyway 'draw' in pro wrestling doesn't refer to viewership it refers to money drawn which Cena is clearly number one on the planet right now if you discount the rock who hasn't worked a match in over 4 years.


Sorry I edited my post as you quoted me. But I agree, nobody is drawing currently, yet people around here act like he's still the god & savior of WWE. Seriously, having Cena back changes nothing. And merch sales, well yea I'd expect that from a guy whose been pushed the way he has for 10 years.


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

from reddit

WOR: July 4th SD Live rating was "mind boggling" - John Cena return was a HUGE draw

https://clyp.it/fkjjf1am


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 7/11/17 Vs 7/4/17 ):
2.465M Vs 2.329M ( + 0.136M / + 5.84% )
0.760D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.465M Vs 3.009M ( - 0.544M / 81.92% )
0.760D Vs 0.973D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 7/11/17 Vs 7/14/16 ):
2.465M Vs 2.068M ( + 0.397M / + 19.20% )
0.760D Vs 0.560D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.068M Vs 3.171M ( - 1.103M / 65.22% )
0.560D Vs 0.933D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 10th by viewership.*


----------



## Erik.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

CENA


----------



## machomanjohncena

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Next week will mark one year since the brand split began and SD went live. So next week there will probably be a big year-to-year drop because the draft episode did 3.17 million viewers


----------



## Randy Lahey

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



machomanjohncena said:


> Next week will mark one year since the brand split began and SD went live. So next week there will probably be a big year-to-year drop because the draft episode did 3.17 million viewers


It'll also begin to have an apples to apples comparison by comparing live tuesday shows vs live tuesday shows.


----------



## squarebox

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Gotta love how all the media are like "ratings up with JOHN CENA & AJ STYLES IN THE MAIN EVENT". Newsflash: They were pulling higher ratings without Cena - two 2.6M's in a row the weeks before the 4th of July week.

But let's still act like Cena is still this huge draw whose gonna save the ratings freefall.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 7/18/17 Vs 7/11/17 ):
2.548M Vs 2.465M ( + 0.083M / + 3.37% )
0.810D Vs 0.760D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.548M Vs 3.153M ( - 0.605M / 80.81% )
0.810D Vs 1.070D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 2nd by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 7/18/17 Vs 7/19/16 ):
2.548M Vs 3.170M ( - 0.622M / - 19.62% )
0.810D Vs 1.180D

SDL Vs RAW:
3.170M Vs 3.133M ( + 0.037M / 101.18% )
1.180D Vs 1.130D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## DoubtGin

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Pretty much what I expected.

Not really much to talk about.


----------



## machomanjohncena

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Big year-to-year drop, as expected seeing as last year was the draft episode. Now we can compare SD Live with SD Live


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 7/25/17 Vs 7/18/17 ):
2.535M Vs 2.548M ( - 0.013M / - 0.51% )
0.770D Vs 0.810D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.535M Vs 3.067M ( - 0.532M / 82.65% )
0.770D Vs 1.010D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 3rd by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 7/25/17 Vs 7/26/16 ):
2.535M Vs 2.743M ( - 0.208M / - 7.58% )
0.770D Vs 1.180D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.743M Vs 3.339M ( - 0.596M / 82.15% )
1.180D Vs 1.230D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 10th by viewership.*


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Fair to say that Smackdown will beat Raw on a regular basis once MNF starts?

This shows you that you can have a shitty show, and still do good if you have only one or two guys people are interested in. And I don't mean Jinder Mahal, but AJ, Cena, and Nakamura. The rest of this show Is horseshit.


----------



## chronoxiong

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Depressing ratings for a PPV fallout episode. Looks like people are catching on to the crappy show Road Dogg has been booking. This week's show was solid too so this has to suck.


----------



## Randy Lahey

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Smackdown won't ever beat Raw in the ratings. They've been drawing about 80% - 82% of what Raw gets for the last year. Don't see that changing. Also, this week shows the exact effect of what has been happening to Raw - an 8-10% drop from last year.


----------



## validreasoning

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



chronoxiong said:


> Depressing ratings for a PPV fallout episode. Looks like people are catching on to the crappy show Road Dogg has been booking. This week's show was solid too so this has to suck.


2.5 million is what the show has been averaging live this year..

Anyway here are the post SD ppvs viewership

September 13 2016 = 2,658,000 (post backlash)
October 11 2016 = 2,448,000 (post no mercy)
December 6 2016 = 2,479,000 (post tlc)
February 14 2017 = 2,626,000 (post chamber)
May 23 2017 = 2,328,000 (post backlash)
June 20 2017 = 2,597,000 (post mitb)
July 25 2017 = 2,535,000 (post battleground)


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

No one on SD is a draw.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 8/1/17 Vs 7/25/17 ):
2.569M Vs 2.465M ( + 0.104M / + 4.22% )
0.760D Vs 0.760D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.569M Vs 3.163M ( - 0.594M / 81.22% )
0.760D Vs 1.027D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 8/1/17 Vs 8/2/16 ):
2.569M Vs 2.681M ( - 0.112M / - 4.18% )
0.760D Vs 0.930D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.681M Vs 3.314M ( - 0.633M / 80.90% )
0.930D Vs 1.240D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*


----------



## JDP2016

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Still can't understand how SDL gets in the mid 2s while RAW is in the high 2s or low 3s each week despite being on the same network and only one day apart.


----------



## BeckyLynchFan29

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

cena vs nakamura did'n draw shit and some of you was thinking it was a mistake not saving it for ppv lol.


----------



## Demolition119

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

John "ratings" Cena doing work.


----------



## God Movement

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Seems perfectly in line with what you would expect.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Hope the ratings fall off a cliff, it's deserved with the shit they have going on for Summerslam.

But as we've learnt, they're usually 80% of Raw's number so this weeks number should be undeservedly good/decent.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 8/8/17 Vs 8/1/17 ):
2.584M Vs 2.569M ( + 0.015M / + 0.58% )
0.800D Vs 0.760D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.584M Vs 3.240M ( - 0.656M / 79.75% )
0.800D Vs 1.047D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 2nd by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 8/8/17 Vs 8/9/16 ):
2.584M Vs 2.455M ( + 0.129M / + 5.25% )
0.800D Vs 0.810D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.455M Vs 2.911M ( - 0.456M / 84.34% )
0.810D Vs 0.977D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 2nd by viewership.*


----------



## JDP2016

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Ratings stay the same no matter how bad the show is? Why should they change anything?


----------



## Eliko

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



> Tuesday night's episode of SmackDown on the USA Network averaged 2.584 million viewers, up less than one percent from last week's loaded show that featured the first-ever match between John Cena and Shinsuke Nakamura to decide WWE Champion Jinder Mahal's challenger at SummerSlam.
> 
> This week's show finished second on cable in terms of total viewers, trailing only Hannity on Fox News. It was first in the 18-49 demo with a 0.8 rating.
> 
> SmackDown was actually up five percent in the year-over-year ratings, with the August 7th, 2016 edition of the show having done 2.455 million viewers. It also retained 81 percent of the Raw audience from the previous night, continuing that trend.
> 
> It's notable that there was nothing really significant advertised for this episode, yet it did the best number since the superstar shakeup. The show featured more build to SummerSlam and was headlined by a non-title match featuring Mahal and Randy Orton.





*Orton-Jinder beat Cena-Nakamura in the ratings.*


----------



## BullsFener23

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

My favorite brand is SmackDown Live but to be honest RAW is better than SmackDown Live


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Haven't followed the ratings much recently. I see that not much has changed. Still around 80% RAW retention. Numbers aren't too bad for what is essentially RAW Hours 4 & 5.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 8/15/17 Vs 8/8/17 ):
2.530M Vs 2.584M ( - 0.054M / - 2.09% )
0.770D Vs 0.800D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.530M Vs 3.233M ( - 0.703M / 78.26% )
0.770D Vs 1.137D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 8/15/17 Vs 8/16/16 ):
2.530M Vs 2.471M ( + 0.059M / + 2.39% )
0.770D Vs 0.820D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.471M Vs 2.915M ( - 0.444M / 84.77% )
0.820D Vs 1.010D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*


----------



## Chrome

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Higher number than last year.









Which is a shame because it was a lot better than last year.


----------



## Eliko

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



> Orton-Jinder beat Cena-Nakamura in the ratings.


And ... 
Orton-Jinder beat Cena-Jinder in the ratings. 

Another one for The Viper!


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 8/22/17 Vs 8/15/17 ):
2.685M Vs 2.530M ( + 0.155M / + 6.13% )
0.870D Vs 0.770D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.685M Vs 3.404M ( - 0.719M / 78.88% )
0.870D Vs 1.150D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 8/22/17 Vs 8/23/16 ):
2.685M Vs 2.714M ( - 0.029M / - 1.07% )
0.870D Vs 0.980D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.714M Vs 3.315M ( - 0.601M / 81.87% )
0.980D Vs 1.247D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*


----------



## chronoxiong

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Glorious rating for this week. With the debut of a former NXT Champion and return of Shelton Benjamin.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

So AJ has featured in the main event of all the top draw SD episodes.

Of course there are other factors that contributed but interesting nonetheless.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 8/29/17 Vs 8/22/17 ):
2.455M Vs 2.685M ( - 0.230M / - 8.57% )
0.760D Vs 0.870D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.455M Vs 3.304M ( - 0.849M / 74.30% )
0.760D Vs 1.160D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 8/29/17 Vs 8/30/16 ):
2.455M Vs 2.835M ( - 0.380M / - 13.40% )
0.760D Vs 0.910D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.835M Vs 3.413M ( - 0.578M / 83.06% )
0.910D Vs 1.173D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 2nd by viewership.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Wow, big drop from last year.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

That's a big drop :lol

The poor quality finally starting to have an impact on the numbers.

Attendance is bad as well :lol


----------



## InexorableJourney

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

The Haves and the Have Nots is killing in the female demo.


----------



## Piers

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*










Look at Konnor then and now. Non wonder he's wrestling with a T-Shirt


----------



## JTB33b

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

"I think I will give Smackdown a try this week. it might be good"

Mahal opens the show.

"Fuck this, I am going out"


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Ratings were higher last year? Start pushing Ellsworth again, damn it! :vince5*


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Should we start the countdown for the end of the brandsplit?


----------



## Mra22

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Ace said:


> That's a big drop :lol
> 
> The poor quality finally starting to have an impact on the numbers.
> 
> Attendance is bad as well :lol


Who could blame them? Who wants to watch a jobber champion?


----------



## brock loser

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

WWE SmackDown Must End The Pushes Of Jinder Mahal And Shane McMahon
WWE SmackDown is building much of its programming around Jinder Mahal and Shane McMahon, and it's plaguing the blue brand.
The clear direction for SmackDown's next pay-per-view Hell in a Cell, which will take place in October, is McMahon vs. Kevin Owens and Mahal vs. Shinsuke Nakamura, and that should be the end of the road for both Nakamura and McMahon in headlining roles, which should be reserved for someone else.
The long-running belief, after all, is that Mahal is being pushed because of WWE's efforts to expand in India. But it's not working.
According to the latest Wrestling Observer Newsletter, the WWE Network subscriber count in India has actually dropped since Mahal won the WWE Championship back in late May, and "The Maharaja" really hasn't had any sort of positive impact on WWE's business there. If that was WWE's main reason for putting the title on Mahal (and everything suggests it was), then there's no point in keeping the WWE Championship on him when it's obviously having a negative impact on the overall quality of SmackDown.
The blue brand's viewership hit a 2017 low just two weeks after Mahal's shocking WWE Championship win, a ratings issue only fixed by the return of John Cena. Meanwhile, recent YouTube data (h/t Fightful) also suggests that, in terms of being a draw, Mahal pales in comparison to most of WWE's other top stars, even though he's been featured in more high-profile YouTube videos than several of them.
Shortly after Mahal's title win at Backlash, SmackDown attendance was noticeably poor and looked even worse for this week's tapings:
Quite simply, fans aren't buying into Mahal as WWE Champion and really haven't been for much of his title reign, which has been marred by two incredibly lackluster feuds with Nakamura.
Mahal's run with the belt has put a stranglehold on the rest of SmackDown, a show that has seen its quality dip significantly since Mahal became WWE Champion and even has WWE concerned about the long-term future of its TV ratings. Extending Mahal's current push certainly won't help matters, and neither will yet another push for McMahon.
McMahon broke the bank for his limited role as a performer last year, $2.15 million to be exact, which seems even more ridiculous when you realize that WWE is currently cutting costs but is somehow still paying McMahon an absurd amount of money for what appears to be a limited impact on WWE's bottom line. There isn't, after all, any real evidence that McMahon as a part-time attraction is on par with WWE's other major stars.
In that aforementioned Fightful analysis, 38.7% of videos featuring McMahon hit the one million mark, well below other marquee stars like Lesnar (48.9%), Undertaker (50%) and Reigns (54%). What's more is that Survivor Series 2016 was built, at least in part, around McMahon stepping back into the ring, and yet, the WWE Network subscriber count dipped in that quarter once again, which makes you wonder if McMahon is set to wrestle again for any reason other than nepotism.
McMahon's push, much like that of Mahal, doesn't make much sense when there are plenty of stars who could serve admirably in either star's role.
Raw has pushed the likes of Reigns, Braun Strowman and Brock Lesnar because the evidence, like the show's rising viewership, indicates that's what fans want to see. But SmackDown is pushing Mahal and McMahon not because they are massive draws on par with "The Beast" and "The Big Dog," but because of a fruitless attempt to expand in India and because McMahon, well, is a McMahon.
Meanwhile, incredibly talented stars like Luke Harper, Chad Gable and Sami Zayn have been largely forgotten while a tremendous talent like Rusev has been downright buried. And the only way to free up some space for those stars is to ensure that the likes of Mahal and McMahon stop taking it up.


----------



## chronoxiong

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

No more John Cena. Jinder is still Champ. Lots of jobbers/mid-cards on this brand. Ratings and attendance figures are going to continue to sink faster than the Titanic. Road Dogg, oh you didn't know? Your ass better improve!!!!!


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

I don't give a fuck where this was, it's embarrassing. They as well be working high school gyms :heston


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 9/5/17 Vs 8/29/17 ):
2.582M Vs 2.455M ( + 0.127M / + 5.17% )
0.800D Vs 0.760D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.582M Vs 2.932M ( - 0.350M / 88.06% )
0.800D Vs 1.043D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 9/5/17 Vs 9/6/16 ):
2.582M Vs 2.454M ( + 0.128M / + 5.22% )
0.800D Vs 0.790D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.454M Vs 3.069M ( - 0.615M / 79.96% )
0.790D Vs 1.173D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 7th by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SDL up and good RAW retention (88%). Perhaps the rumors of SDL's demise were greatly exaggerated. :trolldog +







= :vince$


----------



## validreasoning

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



THE RETURN OF THE SHIV said:


> SDL up and good RAW retention (88%). Perhaps the rumors of SFL's demise were greatly exaggerated. :trolldog +
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> = :vince$


It's going to be an interesting September. Raw built nothing for Monday head to head with mnf while SD looks like a stacked show. SD has major competition too with the season premiere of lots of shows and the big telethon but at least they built something to try and get the casuals to watch.

If raw goes along the lines of last year then about 2.5 million average will tune into raw next Monday..can SD be number one show?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



validreasoning said:


> It's going to be an interesting September. Raw built nothing for Monday head to head with mnf while SD looks like a stacked show. SD has major competition too with the season premiere of lots of shows and the big telethon but at least they built something to try and get the casuals to watch.
> 
> If raw goes along the lines of last year then about 2.5 million average will tune into raw next Monday..can SD be number one show?


I don't know. CBS has the most watched non sports programs on that night in total viewers, but not demo. It's a tough night in terms of competition for SDL. It seems as if SDL is limited by WWE viewer exhaustion from 3 hours of RAW. It somewhat feels like hours 4 and 5. Next week is a good a time as ever if they are going to beat RAW. There are back to back MNF games so RAW can't get on before football starts with an unopposed hour.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Damn, not even Vince and a heavily promoted event can get people to SD :lol


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

SDL had 2.754M viewers and a .88 demo. Not quite RAW, but it did beat Hour 3 this week. Vince can still draw :vince$


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 9/12/17 Vs 9/5/17 ):
2.754M Vs 2.582M ( + 0.172M / + 6.66% )
0.880D Vs 0.800D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.754M Vs 2.903M ( - 0.149M / 94.87% )
0.880D Vs 0.990D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 2nd by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 9/12/17 Vs 9/13/16 ):
2.754M Vs 2.658M ( + 0.096M / + 3.61% )
0.880D Vs 0.910D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.658M Vs 2.690M ( - 0.032M / 98.81% )
0.910D Vs 0.913D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 4th by viewership.*


----------



## TyAbbotSucks

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

94.87% RAW retention. SDL reeling in where the Big Dog plays.


----------



## A-C-P

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

wens2


----------



## RubberbandGoat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

wow! isn't 95% retention the best ever?


----------



## Zigglerpops

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



RubberbandGoat said:


> wow! isn't 95% retention the best ever?


No they beat raw in the ratings when taker returned and after that all the big boys got called back onto raw to put a stop to that


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 9/19/17 Vs 9/12/17 ):
2.510M Vs 2.754M ( - 0.244M / - 8.86% )
0.740D Vs 0.880D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.510M Vs 2.833M ( - 0.323M / 88.60% )
0.740D Vs 0.923D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 9/19/17 Vs 9/20/16 ):
2.510M Vs 2.292M ( + 0.218M / + 9.51% )
0.740D Vs 0.730D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.292M Vs 2.684M ( - 0.392M / 85.39% )
0.730D Vs 0.990D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## Arsenal79

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Great numbers. Jinder obviously drawing as the champion much better (almost 10% better) than whoever the champ was last year at this time (Ambrose? Styles?).


----------



## V-Trigger

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

>2.510
>Drawing

What did he mean by this.


----------



## JDP2016

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

2.5? Down from the 2.75 from a week ago? Drawing? The level of retardation on this forum never stops.

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## CretinHop138

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

So nobody cared about the headbutt. Que surprise.


----------



## ecclesiastes10

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



JDP2016 said:


> 2.5? Down from the 2.75 from a week ago? Drawing? The level of retardation on this forum never stops.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


u are purposefully ignoring the fact he is comparing the ratings now aginst same time last year when aj styles or whomever was champ at this time....do the math a plus of 300k... says a lot about u that u reacted that way


----------



## Ace

*SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*






'SD numbers dropped immediately after Cena went to Raw, fans determined SD is clearly the B show since the Top 4 stars the company is pushing the most (Cena, Roman, Lesnar and Braun) are all on Raw and not SD, you've established SD as the B show. Idea was not to let that happen, that's why Cena was there but it happened.'

Mods - don't merge it to SD draw thread... this is about SD becoming the B show yet again.


----------



## V-Trigger

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

End the brand split.


----------



## Donnie

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

:mj2 The house AJ built is under renovations right now


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

Send Braun to SDL, there's nowhere for him to go on Raw with Lesnar and Reigns, let him undo the damage Jinder has done to the WWE title.


----------



## LucasXXII

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Send Braun to SDL, there's nowhere for him to go on Raw with Lesnar and Reigns, let him undo the damage Jinder has done to the WWE title.


Yeah that's an awesome idea tbh. Take Braun off TV until the SD after HIAC, have him make a surprise apperance during a Jinder promo and destroy him. He becomes the challenger and wins the title at Survivor Series.


----------



## Ace

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Send Braun to SDL, there's nowhere for him to go on Raw with Lesnar and Reigns, let him undo the damage Jinder has done to the WWE title.


 Braun up against AJ, Orton, KO, Zayn (again) and Nakamura :banderas

On SD, they have no reason not to make him champion either. Like you said, there is nothing on Raw for him. Ambrose and Rollins are in the tag division and Balor will probably go over him which is the last thing he needs. Bray is beyond dead at this point so beating him would mean nothing.


----------



## Captain Edd

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

Attendance is always down in September don't worry about it :trolldog


----------



## Donnie

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Send Braun to SDL, there's nowhere for him to go on Raw with Lesnar and Reigns, let him undo the damage Jinder has done to the WWE title.


wens3 That sounds incredible! And we could build Sami up to challenge him at the Rumble.


----------



## sailord

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

they probably didn't even wanna do the brand split but usa network was like you are going to fucking do it.


----------



## Morrison17

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

RAW numbers are getting lower each year too. It's not like SD is the only show that gets abandoned by viewers.


----------



## sailord

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

the usa network should just step in be like if you don't fix this shit we are just not going renew the contract we have with you.


----------



## LucasXXII

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



> 'SD numbers dropped immediately after Cena went to Raw, fans determined SD is clearly the B show since the Top 4 stars the company is pushing the most (Cena, Roman, Lesnar and Braun) are all on Raw and not SD, you've established SD as the B show. *Idea was not to let that happen, that's why Cena was there but it happened.'*


Btw, Meltzer really needs to work on his sentence structures IMO. There's a "but then Cena left and" missing between "that's why Cena was there" and "it happened". It's not even me being grammar Nazi, it's that a lot of times people misunderstand or simply don't understand what he's trying to say because of his wording. When he's speaking in audios, his statements are often buried in the "uhh...", "I mean", "Nononononono"s; When he's writing there's this problem I've just stated. He also seems to have a tendency of randomly adding in information with little relevance at times, making his long paragraphs very tedious and obscure to read.


----------



## Crasp

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

Braun is cooked TBH. He died last night. whatever he does and wherevever he goes next will seem second rate after that loss. I'd keep him away from smackdown 'cause it'll just add to the B-Show feel now that he's damaged.

Even if they end the brand split - then all we're going to get is current Raw, with SD being a highlight show for current Raw. At least the way things are now we get to see all the cast-offs getting _something_.

It's sad that Vince just never had the motivation to trully treat Smackdown with even half the respect he gives to Raw. If they _do_ cancel the brand split I'd rather they straight up cancel SD too to be honest.


----------



## Ace

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



LucasXXII said:


> Btw, Meltzer really needs to work on his sentence structures IMO. There's a "but then Cena left and" missing between "that's why Cena was there" and "it happened". It's not even me being grammar Nazi, it's that a lot of times people misunderstand or simply don't understand what he's trying to say because of his wording. When he's speaking in audios, his statements are often buried in the "uhh...", "I mean", "Nononononono"s; When he's writing there's this problem I've just stated. He also seems to have a tendency of randomly adding in information with little relevance at times, making his long paragraphs very tedious and obscure to read.


 He didn't write it, I transcribed what he said lol.


----------



## sailord

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

what's going to be funny if the usa network really doesn't renew the contract with wwe. i think if that happens they will have trouble with any network wanting to take them


----------



## LucasXXII

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



Ace said:


> He didn't write it, I transcribed what he said lol.


:kurtcry Alright.


----------



## Ace

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



sailord said:


> what's going to be funny if the usa network really doesn't renew the contract with wwe. i think if that happens they will have trouble with any network wanting to take them


 But but the record revenue :reigns2

Honestly don't think we'll see pyro back fulltime again, it's all downhill from here.


----------



## ste1592

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



sailord said:


> what's going to be funny if the usa network really doesn't renew the contract with wwe. i think if that happens they will have trouble with any network wanting to take them


That's not going to happen, RAW is USA Network's #1 show.

That said, I can see them negotiating a different contract and pay WWE less money. I'm 100% sure they'll at least try, since they'd be a bunch of morons not to.


----------



## sailord

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



ste1592 said:


> That's not going to happen, RAW is USA Network's #1 show.
> 
> That said, I can see them negotiating a different contract and pay WWE less money. I'm 100% sure they'll at least try, since they'd be a bunch of morons not to.


they could probably just not renew the smackdown contact be like you are just going to have one show now or something like that


----------



## ste1592

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



sailord said:


> they could probably just not renew the smackdown contact be like you are just going to have one show now or something like that


SD, as shitty as it is, it's still one of their most watched shows. If they wanted that, they wouldn't have asked Vince to shake things up in order to improve SD ratings, and there would have been no brand split.


----------



## sailord

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



ste1592 said:


> SD, as shitty as it is, it's still one of their most watched shows. If they wanted that, they wouldn't have asked Vince to shake things up in order to improve SD ratings, and there would have been no brand split.


true ether way if things don't change the contract negotiations should be interesting. When it happens


----------



## ste1592

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



sailord said:


> true ether way if things don't change the contract negotiations should be interesting


I hope they get fucked in the ass hard, to be honest. They don't deserve to make money without putting the effort.


----------



## Ace

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



ste1592 said:


> *I hope they get fucked in the ass hard*, to be honest. They don't deserve to make money without putting the effort.


 Who says someone isn't already doing that :brock

He may be lazy af, but it's hard to hate a guy who's robbing Vince blind.


----------



## RetepAdam.

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



LucasXXII said:


> Btw, Meltzer really needs to work on his sentence structures IMO. There's a "but then Cena left and" missing between "that's why Cena was there" and "it happened". It's not even me being grammar Nazi, it's that a lot of times people misunderstand or simply don't understand what he's trying to say because of his wording. When he's speaking in audios, his statements are often buried in the "uhh...", "I mean", "Nononononono"s; When he's writing there's this problem I've just stated. He also seems to have a tendency of randomly adding in information with little relevance at times, making his long paragraphs very tedious and obscure to read.


I mean, the whole thing is a mess when you consider it's a comma splice to begin with.


----------



## Ace

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



RetepAdam. said:


> I mean, the whole thing is a mess when you consider it's a comma splice to begin with.


 It wasn't exactly what he said in the clip, I'm not gonna go through it word for word...


----------



## RetepAdam.

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



Ace said:


> It wasn't exactly what he said in the clip, I'm not gonna go through it word for word...


WHAT DID I JUST SAY ABOUT COMMA SPLICES. eyton


----------



## sailord

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



Ace said:


> Who says someone isn't already doing that :brock
> 
> He may be lazy af, but it's hard to hate a guy who's robbing Vince blind.


brock is costing them so much they can't even do pyros no more lol . really some entrance look lame with out pyros


----------



## Ace

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



RetepAdam. said:


> WHAT DID I JUST SAY ABOUT COMMA SPLICES. eyton


 It's a fucking forum, do you want me to be formal....


----------



## ste1592

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



Ace said:


> Who says someone isn't already doing that :brock
> 
> He may be lazy af, but it's hard to hate a guy who's robbing Vince blind.


Yeah, but Brock is still a commodity they're paying for. It's like a regular guy getting debts to pay for a new Iphone, he's getting fucked hard in the ass but at least he has his toy.

I want them to straight up lose money because their product is awful, not because they spend too much to make it "better".


----------



## DJ Punk

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Send Braun to SDL, there's nowhere for him to go on Raw with Lesnar and Reigns, let him undo the damage Jinder has done to the WWE title.


That's actually a really good idea.


----------



## KOMania1

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

I've been boycotting Smackdown for a good while now; I'd like to say I'm happy, but given how many of my favourites are on the show, that simply isn't true. I f**king hate that the best talents around like Charlotte and AJ are being held hostage on Road Dogg's sh*tstain of a show and that I've given up watching them because of the utter trash both we and they have to endure. 

They deserve those ratings, and the show deserves to f**king die so long as that loathsome moron is writing for it. Some of the talents on there desperately need to be salvaged by RAW. Honestly, John Cena leaving it was probably just the catalyst for this fan exodus; most people are just sick of the sh*t quality. RAW's not great but it's miles ahead of Smackdown and has been for most of the year. 

It doesn't help that there's a literal zit fountain holding the world title; if one of the worst talents in the WWE today and by far the worst WWE Champion of all time looks set to defend his belt all the way into the new year, why should anyone honestly bother with that show?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

It was more important to have Cena make Roman look strong than the red headed step child that is SDL.


----------



## ★Th0t Patr0L★

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Send Braun to SDL, there's nowhere for him to go on Raw with Lesnar and Reigns, let him undo the damage Jinder has done to the WWE title.


I can get behind this.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

Braun going to SDL would actually be really good. On Raw right now he's dead in the water. He can keep destroying fools, but there's no payoff for him on Raw. Its not going anywhere, and he'll just steadily become less and less over now that he's peaked and is just another cog in the machine heading towards ReignsaMania 4.

He could really wake SDL up out of this slumber as well. Just squash Jinder and co. Then go on a reign of destruction.



Ace said:


> Who says someone isn't already doing that :brock
> 
> He may be lazy af, but it's hard to hate a guy who's robbing Vince blind.


This makes me happy. Brock basically robbing Vince and not making any difference to ratings and putting in the least amount of effort possible.


----------



## Blade Runner

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

SDL becoming the B-show yet again? It's ALWAYS been treated as the B-show. The only time that I recall Smackdown _actually_ being on equal footing with RAW was back in 2003.


----------



## TripleG

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

He says its because Cena left, but aren't the numbers for Raw pretty bad too?


----------



## Asuka842

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Send Braun to SDL, there's nowhere for him to go on Raw with Lesnar and Reigns, let him undo the damage Jinder has done to the WWE title.


That's actually a really good idea. It's clear now that WWE is stubbornly sticking to their Brock vs. Roman WM title match, and everyone else is just there as cannon fodder for them. So send Braun to the brand where he might have a chance of breaking through that glass ceiling.

Have him show up post-HIAC, assuming that Nakamura doesn't beat Jinder (I hope that he does, but I have my doubts on that one), and Braun just absolutely destroys Jinder, and then takes out the Singh Brothers while he's at it.

Right there, credibility to the WWE Title restored in one fell swoop.


----------



## Dalexian

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

Honestly, I think Charlotte being gone contributed as well. Smackdown feels like it has been on cruise control since the Superstar Shakeup. It could easily spike resurgence if they have someone beat Jinder, Charlotte/Nattie goes off like it did in NXT, and Kevin Owens can maintain his momentum.


----------



## Skyblazer

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

The issue with Smackdown is a bunch of people in the wrong roles and the lack of commitment to making and maintaining main eventers. Aj Styles not in main event level feuds is hurting that level while Jinder in Main event feuds is hurting the main event scene. Switching their positions helps the show greatly. 

There is also plenty of misused and underutilized talent with potential being wasted, added with awful time management.

KO/Shane and the New Day/Usos stuff are the only consistent highlights.


----------



## AlternateDemise

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

And this is why I didn't like the idea of Cena going to Raw. Cena was Smackdown's drawing card, their way of tipping the scales with Raw. And now that he's on Raw, it's made Smackdown look like an afterthought. It's not the fact that he's on Raw, it's the fact that he went there FROM SMACKDOWN. And now the worst part is that Cena was completely wasted on a feud with Reigns and is now gone until Royal Rumble. 

Fuck who ever it was who thought this was a good idea.


----------



## Chrome

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



Captain Edd said:


> Attendance is always down in September don't worry about it :trolldog


Can't wait to hear his excuse if attendance is down in January through March, which is WWE's "hot period."


----------



## .christopher.

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

I'm all for Braun coming to SD but what puts me off is that, in return, RAW would get one of SDs stars who'd then get lost in the shuffle that is the Reigns show. I don't want another good talent Bray Wyatt'd. Get him back over too while we're at it. Nobody on RAW would notice the difference.


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit

While Smackdown's _clearly_ the B show, WWE doesn't even bother pretending it isn't, that's just one of a litany of reasons why their ratings, among everything else, are dropping.

There's a reason "#fireroaddogg" is a thing.



Chrome said:


> Can't wait to hear his excuse if attendance is down in January through March, which is WWE's "hot period."


It's not Smackdown! It's that Raw is EVER SO popular!


----------



## AmWolves10

Donnie said:


> The house AJ built is under renovations right now




The house that AJ built got burned down by Jinder Mahal and Road Dogg


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



sailord said:


> they probably didn't even wanna do the brand split but usa network was like you are going to fucking do it.


The funny thing is... 


USA told them to do that because they were booking Smackdown like shit and making it abundantly clear they didn't give a shit about it.... 


Fast forward two years, and....


They're booking Smackdown like shit and making it abundantly clear they don't give a shit about it.


Did I say funny? I meant sad, frustrating, and annoying.


----------



## Captain Edd

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



AmWolves10 said:


> The house that AJ built got burned down by Jinder Mahal and Road Dogg


Sorry for the bad cutting, I'm still drunk from yesterday


----------



## Chrome

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



Captain Edd said:


> Sorry for the bad cutting, I'm still drunk from yesterday


:mj4

You should resize that and make it your sig.


----------



## .christopher.

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



Captain Edd said:


> Sorry for the bad cutting, I'm still drunk from yesterday


This is brilliant. You could've also added Zayn trapped inside the house as he's clearly an afterthought, and Vince smiling down from the Sky. Still, nice job.


----------



## InexorableJourney

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

So as John has now left RAW as well, expect their numbers to drop shortly


----------



## Rozalia

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

Honestly I don't see why more on here don't watch Smackdown, B show or not. At least guys on there aren't being fed all year round to Roman/Lesnar to coronate Roman for the millionth time. Jinder is having his run and it will end in time, likely losing to someone people want to have the belt and never expected to actually get. He'll then get packed away to RAW where he will lose endlessly to Roman. 

Smackdown very much has the best tag and woman's division so it isn't like it doesn't have things over RAW.


----------



## JokersLastLaugh

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



Ace said:


> Who says someone isn't already doing that :brock
> 
> He may be lazy af, but it's hard to hate a guy who's robbing Vince blind.


I would agree but I'll always hate him after what he did to Ambrose at WM.


----------



## Arya Dark

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



Captain Edd said:


> Sorry for the bad cutting, I'm still drunk from yesterday


*Why is there no dumpster fire in this picture? Clearly a missed opportunity.*


----------



## JBL_Wrestling_God

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

Let's look at the top two heels of the show right now. 

Owens - Don't get me wrong I used to dislike Kevin Owens but he's starting to rub off on me. The Jericho friendship storyline is where he first began impressing me with his charisma. His segments with Shane and Vince over the past month have been fantastic as well. Having said that, Owens is not TOP heel material sorry. Owens just doesn't strike me as a guy who carries himself as a top heel he doesn't have the physique, look, presence whatever you want to label it. Owens just lacks IT to be the top heel of the brand. Now this is not a huge knock I still think he should be in the upper midcard and get multiple US title reigns and maybe a transitional champion. Owens as a top heel of a brand though is never going to draw huge ratings or be looked at as a big deal though he just lack the star factor. 

Jinder Mahal - Went from jobber to champion and he sucks at wrestling of course he's not going to be taken seriously as the top heel of a brand. I wouldn't blame that all on him though he like Owens could make a strong midcard heel but I feel both these guys should be in US title picture. Owens is solid for his mic work, Mahal is solid for his look and presence neither are top heel material. 

On top of that the top babyfaces are Nakamara, Orton, AJ Styles and Nakamara is the only one out of those three that have not been bland and boring this year. Nakamara is a required choice though I don't see someone who can't speak english as a top face of a brand. Orton and AJ Styles while both are main event talent they are both very bland generic babyfaces who I can't get behind. That's what happens when Vince stacks Raw with all the top stars you get Smackdown with a bunch of midcard guys being given main event spots.


----------



## Stinger Fan

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

Ratings and attendances have been mediocre as soon as Jinder won the belt. I still don't get how they keep the title on him, he's got to lose the belt in a couple weeks....right?


----------



## validreasoning

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



Stinger Fan said:


> Ratings and attendances have been mediocre as soon as Jinder won the belt. I still don't get how they keep the title on him, he's got to lose the belt in a couple weeks....right?


Ratings are slightly ahead of where they were last year. Attendance isn't really broken down as easily so it's difficult to compare. Smackdown tapings have been averaging about 6,000 since 2011 so it's probably not changed alot but we probably won't know the full numbers until someone works it out next year.

I don't see them taking title off him. This is like worst time of year to be champion, October SD will go head to head with NBA opening night and the world series. It's not going to make any difference who the title is on at that point. HIAC has a very strong advance and will be sold out by show time so that's at least a positive. Last year's first SD ppv post Summerslam had a weak advance and they had to give away quite a few tickets to fill up the building, mentioned couple of paragraphs down http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-ppv/2049441-dave-meltzers-backlash-report-star-ratings.html


----------



## CM Buck

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



Ace said:


> 'SD numbers dropped immediately after Cena went to Raw, fans determined SD is clearly the B show since the Top 4 stars the company is pushing the most (Cena, Roman, Lesnar and Braun) are all on Raw and not SD, you've established SD as the B show. Idea was not to let that happen, that's why Cena was there but it happened.'
> 
> Mods - don't merge it to SD draw thread... this is about SD becoming the B show yet again.


Who cares? There is still things to be entertained by.njpw is considered the B company compared to the global giant that is WWE yet people love it. Who gives a fuck about A shows and B shows. As long as there is at least something to grab my attention like Kevin Owens or AJ I couldn't care less about numbers and shit like that cause I don't work for or own shares in the company


----------



## Stinger Fan

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



validreasoning said:


> Ratings are slightly ahead of where they were last year. Attendance isn't really broken down as easily so it's difficult to compare. Smackdown tapings have been averaging about 6,000 since 2011 so it's probably not changed alot but we probably won't know the full numbers until someone works it out next year.
> 
> I don't see them taking title off him. This is like worst time of year to be champion, October SD will go head to head with NBA opening night and the world series. It's not going to make any difference who the title is on at that point. HIAC has a very strong advance and will be sold out by show time so that's at least a positive. Last year's first SD ppv post Summerslam had a weak advance and they had to give away quite a few tickets to fill up the building, mentioned couple of paragraphs down http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-ppv/2049441-dave-meltzers-backlash-report-star-ratings.html


January 3, 2017 - 2,596,000 viewers
January 10, 2017 - 2,533,000 viewers
January 17, 2017 - 2,652,000 viewers
January 24, 2017 - 2,556,000 viewers
January 31, 2017 - 2,817,000 viewers
February 7, 2017 - 2,627,000 viewers
February 14, 2017 - 2,626,000 viewers
February 22, 2017 - 2,792,000 viewers
February 28, 2017 - 2,566,000 viewers
March 7, 2017 - 2,738,000 viewers
March 14, 2017 - 2,628,000 viewers
March 21, 2017 - 2,647,000 viewers
March 28, 2017 - 2,698,000 viewers
April 4, 2017 - 2,885,000 viewers (Post-WrestleMania)
April 11, 2017 - 3,105,000 viewers (Superstar Shake-Up)
April 18, 2017 - 2,544,000 viewers
April 25, 2017 - 2,493,000 viewers
May 2, 2017 - 2,300,000 viewers
May 9, 2017 - 2,348,000 viewers (London)
May 16, 2017 - 2,175,000 viewers
May 23, 2017 - 2,328,000 viewers - Jinder as Champion
May 30, 2017 - 2,350,000 viewers
June 6, 2017 - 2,349,000 viewers
June 13, 2017 - 2,072,000 viewers
June 20, 2017 - 2,597,000 viewers
June 27, 2017 - 2,603,000 viewers
July 4, 2017 - 2,329,000 viewers
July 11,2017 - 2,465,000 viewers
July 18, 2017 - 2,548,000 viewers
July 25, 2017 - 2,535,000 viewers
August 1, 2017 - 2,569,000 viewers
August 8, 2017 -2,584,000 viewers
August 15 - 2,530,000 viewers
August 22 - 2,685,000 viewers
August 29 - 2,455,000 viewers
September 5 - 2,580,000 viewers

The ratings on average have been worse under his as champion. 

Backlash sold about 10k tickets to an 18k arena. Money in the Bank sold about 15k tickets to a 20k Arena. Battleground sold about 13k tickets to a 19k arena. He hasn't been that good


----------



## LucasXXII

validreasoning said:


> Ratings are slightly ahead of where they were last year. Attendance isn't really broken down as easily so it's difficult to compare. Smackdown tapings have been averaging about 6,000 since 2011 so it's probably not changed alot but we probably won't know the full numbers until someone works it out next year.
> 
> I don't see them taking title off him. This is like worst time of year to be champion, October SD will go head to head with NBA opening night and the world series. It's not going to make any difference who the title is on at that point. HIAC has a very strong advance and will be sold out by show time so that's at least a positive. Last year's first SD ppv post Summerslam had a weak advance and they had to give away quite a few tickets to fill up the building, mentioned couple of paragraphs down http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-ppv/2049441-dave-meltzers-backlash-report-star-ratings.html


Ticket to Backlash 2016 were made available on July 25. I would imagine the event didn't sell well because from late-July to mid-August people were still under the impression that SDL was a watered down show with little star power. SDL's booking didn't really get good until September. 

Right now SDL's numbers are falling because the B-show stigma is making its return, with an absolutely underwhelming main event scenes consisting of only Nakamura and Mahal compared to RAW's, Cena migrating to RAW and bad booking in general since Mania. The ratings are slightly higher because the positive effect late-2016 SDL brought to the show hasn't been undone yet (which helps the current ratings), and because last year this time it was still perceived as the B-Show more so than right now (which takes away from last year's ratings). 

I think Mahal isn't so much a bad champion as people make out to be, but he is indeed no good to the numbers. The fact is even to this date he still needs elevation. Before August it wasn't as bad as he was working Orton, and as RAW's main event scene hadn't become known as jampacked and star-studded yet. By Summerslam which is the second biggest event of the year, people were seeing just how much SDL was towered by RAW, with every SDL match-up being less of an attraction than its RAW counterpart. 

Nakamura/Mahal is so weak that they have to do Shane/Owens and make it the top feud of SDL. They absolutely need to end the feud after HIAC. Mahal desperately needs a better opponent (though there really isn't any candidate that is so much of an upgrade that the feud would lead to significant positive impacts, methinks). Other operations such as moving Strowman or Joe to SDL, Paige returning, making 4HW vs. 4HW happen and take place mainly on SDL, and Vince appearing more often will also help. In the end, the show's booking in general has to drastically improve, of course.


----------



## A-C-P

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

The Trasharaja NOT a bad champion? :bosque


----------



## validreasoning

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



Stinger Fan said:


> The ratings on average have been worse under his as champion.


I am comparing week to week on an annual basis. its a bit unfair to compare numbers during mania season with September.

SD has averaged 2.49 million viewers live in the 18 weeks jinder has been champion. Same period last year (late May to September 2016) SD averaged 2.41 million viewers.

Discounting the draft show the live episodes (end July to late September) have seen pretty much identical numbers. 2.589 million vs 2.575 million



> Backlash sold about 10k tickets to an 18k arena. Money in the Bank sold about 15k tickets to a 20k Arena. Battleground sold about 13k tickets to a 19k arena. He hasn't been that good


Your capacities are a bit off here are correct numbers http://indeedwrestling.blogspot.ie/2015/04/wwe-schedule-april-2015-march-2016.html

Non mania ppvs have been averaging roughly 12,000 for over a decade so those numbers you posted would be right around the average. Non gimmick b ppvs on both raw and SD since the brand split have usually been shy of sellouts unless they have a big attraction like no mercy this past Sunday.

I don't think jinder is a good champion or a draw but I also don't see them taking the title off him either at least not right now. It's not going to matter either if they put the title on styles, roode, Nakamura, Owens etc because SD is firmly entrenched as the b show, it was for 15 years before the last draft and certainly is once Cena moved to raw again and this is the period of the year that parents and their kids (who make up the majority of SD audience) have better things to do than buys tickets for a show on a Tuesday..reason UFC don't run shows on midweek anymore


----------



## BeckyLynchFan29

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



validreasoning said:


> Ratings are slightly ahead of where they were last year. Attendance isn't really broken down as easily so it's difficult to compare. Smackdown tapings have been averaging about 6,000 since 2011 so it's probably not changed alot but we probably won't know the full numbers until someone works it out next year.
> 
> I don't see them taking title off him. This is like worst time of year to be champion, October SD will go head to head with NBA opening night and the world series. It's not going to make any difference who the title is on at that point. HIAC has a very strong advance and will be sold out by show time so that's at least a positive. Last year's first SD ppv post Summerslam had a weak advance and they had to give away quite a few tickets to fill up the building, mentioned couple of paragraphs down http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-ppv/2049441-dave-meltzers-backlash-report-star-ratings.html


still trying to do damage control for wwe huh? lol don't you ever get tired of kissing wwe ass and pretending everything is alright?


----------



## AlternateDemise

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

Another thing I'm going to add is that when the brand split first happened (again), Smackdown didn't just get Cena. Orton had just returned from injury, was put on the Smackdown roster and was put in the main event of Summerslam in a match with Brock Lesnar. Dean Ambrose was WWE's only world champion at the time, beat Rollins and Reigns in a triple threat match and went to Smackdown, forcing Raw to create their own world title. Not only did Smackdown get the legitimate world champion, but at that point, Ambrose was allowed to say that he was the best member of the Shield. Bray Wyatt also went to Smackdown, and it was at this point that the Wyatt family was noticeably getting a more serious push. New Day was in the midst of a historic tag team title reign, and the Wyatt family was able to end their PPV winning streak. And then guys like Miz, Ziggler, and Corbin were able to help balance out the mid card and swap every now and then with the main event talent. 

But the biggest one was AJ Styles, who was still fresh and new to the company, was hot coming off his feud with Reigns, and was currently in a feud with John Cena. He was being portrayed as the next big thing in WWE, and he also went to Smackdown.

I think doing the superstar shake up was a huge mistake. I at first defended it as I felt Smackdown did get some good talent in the shake up. Charlotte, Owens and New Day were all big additions (and I think they've done a great job with New Day so far in their feud with the Usos, which is one of the best tag team feuds WWE has had a very long time). Smackdown also get Jericho and they ended up being the ones to get Nakamura from NXT, who was without question the biggest name from NXT to get called up at that point. But the problem with Nakamura is that he doesn't have a lot to work with at the moment, and he's not established enough to make going up against Mahal work. It feels like two guys who are still mid carders fighting for the WWE Championship. Jericho is gone and probably not going to be back for a long time, if he ever does come back. And Smackdown hasn't been able to fill the void left by Ambrose going over to Raw. People underestimate what Ambrose brought to the show, as he was a talented all around performer capable of carrying himself like a star and was a great face. Styles doesn't fill that void as he doesn't possess the mic work or personality of Ambrose. 

I was talking before about how stupid it is that this years No Mercy was using last years theme song, considering what No Mercy felt like at the time. It was Smackdown's PPV and that theme song was just perfect for the show. Smackdown was on a roll. And honestly, when I listened to the song the other day, I watched it on this video in particular. And in the second half of the video, you see the following image, in which I thought to myself "Wow. These four are all so different, and yet feel like legitimate main eventers. THIS is what you want at the top of your brand".






At the 1:00 mark.

My, how times have changed.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*



validreasoning said:


> I am comparing week to week on an annual basis. its a bit unfair to compare numbers during mania season with September.
> 
> SD has averaged 2.49 million viewers live in the 18 weeks jinder has been champion. Same period last year (late May to September 2016) SD averaged 2.41 million viewers.
> 
> Discounting the draft show the live episodes (end July to late September) have seen pretty much identical numbers. 2.589 million vs 2.575 million


Well, if we want to omit, and move things around, let's do it both ways.

In June(which were the worst months of Jinder's reign:

June 6th, Jinder had a 4 minute match with Mojo Rawley, main event for that match: Nakamura vs. Owens.

Just to show how little time Jinder was on screen, the Colons got a 7 minute match and Jinder only got a 4 minute match

June 13th: Jinder does 1 promo the entire show, main event for that week,

Styles/Nak/Zayn vs Owens/Corbin/Ziggler, in a 16 minute match

June 20th: Main event Jinder vs. Harper, this was the 2nd highest rated Smackdown in June, and did half a million people more, mainly because of the MITB PPV being before it, and the woman's MITB controversy

June 23rd had the women's MITB, and had the highest numbers.

Jinder had nothing to do with two of those Smackdowns that had horrible numbers, outside of that, the number have been pretty much the same.

If you are going to try to give asterisks to numbers, make sure they are done both ways.


----------



## Thanks12

*Re: SD numbers dropping across the board because it's clearly perceived as the B show - Meltzer*

They should just cancel it. I mean Vince doesn't care for it.


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Cancel the show, it's dead.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/912827810070360066


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 9/26/17 Vs 9/19/17 ):
2.542M Vs 2.510M ( + 0.032M / + 1.27% )
0.820D Vs 0.740D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.542M Vs 2.923M ( - 0.381M / 86.97% )
0.820D Vs 0.987D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 4th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 9/26/17 Vs 9/27/16 ):
2.542M Vs 2.340M ( + 0.202M / + 8.63% )
0.820D Vs 0.740D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.340M Vs 2.478M ( - 0.138M / 94.43% )
0.740D Vs 0.833D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

2.5m... why the fuck do people still watch this garbage :cenaout


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Up from last week in both total viewers and the demo. JinderMania is strolling leisurely, brother. :mark


----------



## D.M.N.

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

With quarter three (July to September) now complete, here are how things are looking percentage wise. The +/- is an average of the comparison between (i.e. for Q3 2017):

- the previous quarter (Q2 2017)
- one year earlier (Q3 2016)
- two years earlier (Q3 2015)

Here are the quarter three percentage figures for recent years:

+8.5% = 2016
*+5.8% = 2017*
+2.4% = 2014
-13.7% = 2015

From a year perspective:

Q3 2012 = 2.69 million
Q3 2013 = 2.57 million (down 4.5%)
Q3 2014 = 2.66 million (up 3.5%)
Q3 2015 = 2.22 million (down 16.5%)
Q3 2016 = 2.55 million (up 14.7%)
Q3 2017 = 2.55 million (down 0.1%)


----------



## Florat

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Ace said:


> 2.5m... why the fuck do people still watch this garbage :cenaout


http://www.geekweek.com/2010/01/tna-draws-record-ratings.html

We are coming closer and closer to the day when we will be able to say that TNA, at least once, had more viewers than a main WWE Show.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Florat said:


> http://www.geekweek.com/2010/01/tna-draws-record-ratings.html
> 
> We are coming closer and closer to the day when we will be able to say that TNA, at least once, had more viewers than a main WWE Show.


Damn. Never thought of it like that. Scary.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 10/3/17 Vs 9/26/17 ):
2.323M Vs 2.542M ( - 0.219M / - 8.62% )
0.740D Vs 0.820D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.323M Vs 2.773M ( - 0.450M / 83.77% )
0.740D Vs 0.927D

Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 10/3/17 Vs 10/4/16 ):
2.323M Vs 2.316M ( + 0.007M / + 0.30% )
0.740D Vs 0.710D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.316M Vs 2.797M ( - 0.481M / 82.80% )
0.710D Vs 0.983D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 9th by viewership.*


----------



## Demolition119

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Since Raw is rapidly turning to crap again, Smackdown is in trouble.


----------



## Dave Santos

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



ShowStopper said:


> Damn. Never thought of it like that. Scary.


Did the Hulk debut on Tna get more?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Jinder is an excellent steward for SDL. He has kept the ratings from completely tanking. Whattaguy! :trolldog


----------



## JDP2016

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

WOW!!!! They lost .2 million viewers on a "go home" episode? 

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Gives a whole new meaning to the term "Go Home Show".


----------



## nyelator

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



JDP2016 said:


> WOW!!!! They lost .2 million viewers on a "go home" episode?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


Not great.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Viewership & demo ( 10/10/17 Vs 10/3/17 ):
2.467M Vs 2.323M ( + 0.144M / + 6.20% )
0.800D Vs 0.740D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.467M Vs 2.871M ( - 0.404M / 85.93% )
0.800D Vs 0.963D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 4th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 10/10/17 Vs 10/11/16 ):
2.467M Vs 2.448M ( + 0.019M / + 0.78% )
0.800D Vs 0.790D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.448M Vs 2.759M ( - 0.311M / 88.73% )
0.790D Vs 0.943D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## BeckyLynchFan29

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

went up a little bit but still not a good rating and shows people don't give a shit about sami turning heel.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

Almost 89% of RAW. Pretty good, but SDL will always be the bridesmaid to RAW.


----------



## JDP2016

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



BeckyLynchFan29 said:


> went up a little bit but still not a good rating and shows people don't give a shit about sami turning heel.


Why should they? He still ain't winning the WWE title. 

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## HoganIsGOAT

*So are we going to pretend Smackdown Live's ratings weren't up this week, following Hell In A Cell?*

I may have to start calling Baron Corbin "Big Ratings," instead of "Big Banter." His championship win at Hell in a Cell and main event on Smackdown Live were no doubt a big part of this.

All hail!


----------



## LucasXXII

*Re: So are we going to pretend Smackdown Live's ratings weren't up this week, following Hell In A Cell?*

Are we going to pretend Sami Zayn's heel turn in the main event of HIAC didn't happen?


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit

*Re: So are we going to pretend Smackdown Live's ratings weren't up this week, following Hell In A Cell?*

Maybe word got out Jinder wasn't going to be there :jericho2


----------



## Brodus Clay

*Re: So are we going to pretend Smackdown Live's ratings weren't up this week, following Hell In A Cell?*

Dude I even watch it because Owens and Sami, yes ratings go up when they do interesting booking stop trolling with that Baron Corbin and Jinder shit.


----------



## Dr. Middy

*Re: So are we going to pretend Smackdown Live's ratings weren't up this week, following Hell In A Cell?*

What about when he won the MITB?


----------



## IceTheRetroKid

*re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here >> THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*

*Ratings went up because for once, Smackdown had a PPV that had blue ropes and the white ropes didn't kill off any momentum that was gained from the PPV. You need consistent colored ropes for viewers to keep tuning back in or it will keep staggering the viewership.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

They went up a meager 140,000 the show right after a PPV, and after a big cliffhanger in the main event with Sami turning heel. Not good.


----------



## IceTheRetroKid

ShowStopper said:


> They went up a meager 140,000 the show right after a PPV, and after a big cliffhanger in the main event with Sami turning heel. Not good.


*Those 140k people were tuned in by their friends to find out Jinder Mahal wasn't on. unk2*


----------



## Ace

This actually decent compared to what we've seen of late :lol

Although this seems like a much smaller arena.










20 mins before the show.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 10/17/17 Vs 10/10/17 ):
2.320M Vs 2.467M ( - 0.147M / - 5.96% )
0.730D Vs 0.800D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.320M Vs 2.688M ( - 0.368M / 86.31% )
0.730D Vs 0.907D

Note: SDL is 9th by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 10/17/17 Vs 10/18/16 ):
2.320M Vs 2.405M ( - 0.085M / - 3.53% )
0.730D Vs 0.810D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.405M Vs 3.130M ( - 0.725M / 76.84% )
0.810D Vs 1.190D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

These numbers just repeatedly confirm that SDL will only draw usually about 80% of RAW's audience. It seems like if RAW drops slightly there is a corresponding drop for what is the de facto fourth and fifth hour of RAW. Let them all go down together.


----------



## machomanjohncena

They were up against MLB playoffs and the start of the NBA season tbf


----------



## 751161

Could have been a worse turn out for SDL to be honest. I was expecting far worst crowd pictures with how stale the title scene is.

Sami Zayn is a draw? :mark:


----------



## MOBELS

Law said:


> 20 mins before the show.


Last night during the show.


----------



## UniversalGleam

compared to raw this looks like wrestlemania.


----------



## Y2JHOLLA

MOBELS said:


> Last night during the show.


Zayn and Owens drawing them crowds :mark:


----------



## BeckyLynchFan29

Y2JHOLLA said:


> Zayn and Owens drawing them crowds :mark:


too bad they not drawing them ratings.


----------



## Ace

MOBELS said:


> Last night during the show.


 Just saw it on reddit...

Those were the pictures I found on twitter.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

That was the lowest rating SD has drawn in awhile.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 10/24/17 Vs 10/17/17 ):
2.699M Vs 2.320M ( + 0.379M / + 16.34% )
0.810D Vs 0.730D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.699M Vs 2.953M ( - 0.254M / 91.40% )
0.810D Vs 1.033D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 3rd by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 10/24/17 Vs 10/25/16 ):
2.699M Vs 2.127M ( + 0.572M / + 26.89% )
0.810D Vs 0.690D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.127M Vs 2.819M ( - 0.692M / 75.45% )
0.690D Vs 1.007D

Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 8th by viewership.*


----------



## A-C-P

91% :bjpenn


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Jesus, even when Raw goes up against the NFL and a possible invasion retaliation is teased the next night on SD, still mid 2 millions. WWE's numbers are so trash.


----------



## BrokenFreakingNeck

Blue Raw closing in on Regular Raw.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

They did it against Game 1 of The World Series. Nice bump in the demo and total viewers. Over 90% RAW retention. The inter-show angle has, at least initially, borne fruit.


----------



## The Wood

I'm not sure if 9/10 people who watch Raw are also the same people watching SmackDown is a good thing or a bad thing at the moment.


----------



## fabi1982

BeckyLynchFan29 said:


> too bad they not drawing them ratings.


you say what?


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 10/31/17 Vs 10/24/17 ):
2.119M Vs 2.699M ( - 0.580M / - 21.49% )
0.650D Vs 0.810D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.119M Vs 2.854M ( - 0.735M / 74.25% )
0.650D Vs 0.943D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 10/31/17 Vs 11/1/16 ):
2.119M Vs 2.187M ( - 0.068M / - 3.11% )
0.650D Vs 0.670D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.187M Vs 2.600M ( - 0.413M / 84.12% )
0.670D Vs 0.900D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 8th by viewership.*


----------



## JDP2016

Anyone gonna blame this on the World Series?

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## JC00

JDP2016 said:


> Anyone gonna blame this on the World Series?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk



I would say the combination of World Series and it being Halloween. Network shows were down big too. In fact some of them had series low ratings.


----------



## Ace

2.1m :dead3 @ShowStopper @CesaroSwing@THE RETURN OF THE SHIV


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Law said:


> 2.1m :dead3 @ShowStopper @CesaroSwing


WWE :mj4

@Law

Wait until the Christmas Raw that literally falls on Christmas night. It might be worse than this. (I hope).

:ha


----------



## MC

Well when you look at Smackdown, it's crazy when you don't really have many credible stars. The biggest stars on Smackdown has either lost to Mahal multiple times (Randy Orton and Shinsuke Nakamua) or has been in the midcard all year (Aj Styles and Kevin Owens). It's a shame because before mania, the roster was thriving and now bad booking decisions and a very very weak champion has undone all the hard work Styles, Miz and Ambrose did last year.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

World Series and Halloween tag teaming on WWE. Couldn't happen to a more worthy company.


----------



## Ace

MC 16 said:


> Well when you look at Smackdown, it's crazy when you don't really have many credible stars. The biggest stars on Smackdown has either lost to Mahal multiple times (Randy Orton and Shinsuke Nakamua) or has been in the midcard all year (Aj Styles and Kevin Owens). It's a shame because before mania, the roster was thriving and now bad booking decisions and a very very weak champion has undone all the hard work Styles, Miz and Ambrose did last year.


 They've killed the star power on SD.

About 2/3 fans think Raw will beat SD at SS :lol


----------



## MC

Law said:


> They've killed the star power on SD.
> 
> About 2/3 fans think Raw will beat SD at SS :lol


I'm more surprised at how high the 38% is :lol

They killed smackdown to make Raw seem better and their ratings are abysmal as well.


----------



## Ace

Really bad advance for this weeks SD, they didn't sell out so numbers are down across the board :lmao






Around 2.30 mark.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 11/7/17 Vs 10/31/17 ):
2.603M Vs 2.119M ( + 0.484M / + 22.84% )
0.820D Vs 0.650D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.603M Vs 2.841M ( - 0.238M / 91.62% )
0.820D Vs 0.947D

Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 8th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 11/7/17 Vs 11/8/16 ):
2.603M Vs 1.921M ( + 0.682M / + 35.50% )
0.820D Vs 0.560D

SDL Vs RAW:
1.921M Vs 2.767M ( - 0.846M / 69.43% )
0.560D Vs 0.960D

Note: SDL this week last year was 29th by demo & 41st by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

91% Raw retention, the AJ-Jinder match drew even with the spoiler :bjpenn

But that could be down to some expecting a retaliation from Raw too.


----------



## Mra22

AJ drawing them ratings


----------



## Piers

How many times will Rusev have to lose to Orton ?


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

Just read that the show in Manchester drew 3.000 in a 20.000 seat building 

:ha


----------



## PNEFC-Ben

Raw-Is-Botchamania said:


> Just read that the show in Manchester drew 3.000 in a 20.000 seat building
> 
> :ha


I was there, the top tier that holds 8,000 was curtained off and the hard cam block and the one next to it were tarpered off. Apart from that every other seat was full and so were all the floor ones. I'd say there was about 8,000 there


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

Again, someone judging numbers by eye fpalm
Just because you were there doesn't mean you know the number.
Advance was 3.000 for the show, it ended up being a bit more than that.


----------



## Ace

Advance for the show before the WWE title match was announced was 3,000 :lmao

That's a horrific number, so much for the BS sell out stuff that they told Dave. 

Btw Dave said the match wouldn't have added many so it's definitely in that 3,000 around that, I doubt the high walk in would have been any higher.

Looks like numbers are down across the board irrespective of where they telecast. But that's why a shitty product does when you consistently put on shit shows.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Law said:


> Advance for the show before the WWE title match was announced was 3,000 :lmao
> 
> That's a horrific number, so much for the BS sell out stuff that they told Dave.
> 
> Looks like numbers are down across the board.


Tickets are released in stages, so a sell out only means all the tickets that were made available are sold, its not the same as full capacity.

Unless of course WWE released the capacity tickets, but they didn't, they released much much less.


----------



## Ace

InexorableJourney said:


> Tickets are released in stages, so a sell out only means all the tickets that were made available are sold, its not the same as full capacity.
> 
> Unless of course WWE released the capacity tickets, but they didn't, they released much much less.


 It's a bad number regardless.


----------



## PNEFC-Ben

Raw-Is-Botchamania said:


> Again, someone judging numbers by eye fpalm
> Just because you were there doesn't mean you know the number.
> Advance was 3.000 for the show, it ended up being a bit more than that.


Ok but I know how many people 3,000 looks like and there definitely was a lot more than 3,000 spectators.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Lucky WWE jumped off the the Jinder-train when they did, otherwise they'd soon have to start booking the ECW Arena to get a sell out.


----------



## Ace

InexorableJourney said:


> Lucky WWE jumped off the the Jinder-train when they did, otherwise they'd soon have to start booking the ECW Arena to get a sell out.


 Jinder's push out of nowhere contributed but writing and Cena leaving also played a big role.


----------



## Screwball

InexorableJourney said:


> Lucky WWE jumped off the the Jinder-train when they did, otherwise they'd soon have to start booking the ECW Arena to get a sell out.


There's no jumping off the Jinder train, friend. The ride has only just begun, strap yourself in, and get comfortable. :blessedjinderlookingupwardswitharmsoutstretched

Barring an economic collapse, they will never give up on that Indian market.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 11/14/17 Vs 11/7/17 ):
2.607M Vs 2.603M ( + 0.004M / + 0.15% )
0.820D Vs 0.820D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.607M Vs 3.031M ( - 0.424M / 86.01% )
0.820D Vs 1.060D

Note: SDL is 5th by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 11/14/17 Vs 11/15/16 ):
2.607M Vs 2.725M ( - 0.118M / - 4.33% )
0.820D Vs 0.950D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.725M Vs 2.878M ( - 0.153M / 94.68% )
0.950D Vs 0.983D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Wow, pretty much the same viewership from last week almost exactly. Not terrible, but I thought more people would be happy now that Jinder has thankfully been dethroned and the go-home to Survivor Series.


----------



## Ace

That means AJ winning last week drew really well :hmmm

Everyone knew Raw was invading and you only got a couple thousand bump.

2.6m seems to be SD's ceiling now outside WM.


----------



## ecclesiastes10

InexorableJourney said:


> Lucky WWE jumped off the the Jinder-train when they did, otherwise they'd soon have to start booking the ECW Arena to get a sell out.


since when was the heel considered the draw, im no insider but its obvious throughout pro wrestling history its the baby face that attracts the fans, if jinder was feuding or had a great babyface to do a program with, that would draw more ppl to shows...don't rewrite conventional and historic formula of what draws, to jinder bash.


----------



## WorldClass

Rank 15 on the 2017 list Hunt for the Zodiac Killer seems like an interesting show but other than that American tv looks like shit


----------



## WorldClass

ecclesiastes10 said:


> since when was the heel considered the draw, im no insider but its obvious throughout pro wrestling history its the baby face that attracts the fans, if jinder was feuding or had a great babyface to do a program with, that would draw more ppl to shows...don't rewrite conventional and historic formula of what draws, to jinder bash.


Ric Flair , The Funks , The Briscoes in some regions , Superstar Billy Graham, Hollywood Hulk Hogan and Vince McMahon were all heels and they were the top drawing attractions that drew the people to watch , It's not always the Babyface that's on top mate and another one would be The Original Sheik great heel who drew large crowds in his prime so did Gorgeous George and Buddy Rogers .


----------



## ecclesiastes10

WorldClass said:


> Ric Flair , The Funks , The Briscoes in some regions , Superstar Billy Graham, Hollywood Hulk Hogan and Vince McMahon were all heels and they were the top drawing attractions that drew the people to watch , It's not always the Babyface that's on top mate and another one would be The Original Sheik great heel who drew large crowds in his prime so did Gorgeous George and Buddy Rogers .


each and everyone of those mention above had GREAT BABYFACE foils who got the edge and got over them during storylines, people watch to see those babyface chase after them either through title chasing etc... though Hollywood may be an exception I haven't seen his work that much, gotta get into it.


----------



## WorldClass

ecclesiastes10 said:


> each and everyone of those mention above had GREAT BABYFACE foils who got the edge and got over them during storylines, people watch to see those babyface chase after them either through title chasing etc... though Hollywood may be an exception I haven't seen his work that much, gotta get into it.


Dude all of the names I mentioned were the top stars and yes they had heroic babyface to challenge them but they were the stars of the promotions and thats the point I'm trying to make A heel can be the top star


----------



## ecclesiastes10

@WorldClass I don't doubt heels can be top stars I just argue they need a great babyface to draw with


----------



## WorldClass

ecclesiastes10 said:


> @WorldClass I don't doubt heels can be top stars I just argue they need a great babyface to draw with


Ok and I agree on that statement but it works both ways for heels and babyface's


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Good discussion. BTW, anyone expecting SD to all of a sudden draw because they took the title off of Jinder and put it on AJ doesn't get how ratings/viewership work these days. Doesn't work like that. No one in WWE today is a star enough to overcome that.


----------



## Ace

ShowStopper said:


> Good discussion. BTW, anyone expecting SD to all of a sudden draw because they took the title off of Jinder and put it on AJ doesn't get how ratings/viewership work these days. Doesn't work like that. No one in WWE today is a star enough to overcome that.


 It's on writing, but having a main event scene again will definitely help.

Most of the big numbers during Jinder's reign came because of things involved outside his title reign.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Law said:


> It's on writing, but having a main event scene again will definitely help.
> 
> Most of the big numbers during Jinder's reign came because of things involved outside his title reign.


Being a big star isn't just about writing, and my point has nothing to do with that. They can book someone like God, look at Cena and Reigns, and ratings are still in the shitter.


----------



## MC

It's on the writing (meaning the stores) and it's on SD just not having enough star power. I can't tell who is the top star other then AJ. Owens and Zayn are being jobbed to the New Day, Orton is in midcard obscurity, and I'm struggling to think of other names which is my point. It'll take time for them to build, I think the next shakeup they need Seth Rollins or Braun Strowman to help establish that brand as something.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 11/21/17 Vs 11/14/17 ):
2.662M Vs 2.607M ( + 0.055M / + 2.11% )
0.820D Vs 0.820D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.662M Vs 3.074M ( - 0.412M / 86.60% )
0.820D Vs 1.040D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 4th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 11/21/17 Vs 11/22/16 ):
2.662M Vs 2.505M ( + 0.157M / + 6.27% )
0.820D Vs 0.810D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.505M Vs 3.002M ( - 0.497M / 83.44% )
0.810D Vs 1.100D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*


----------



## RainmakerV2

Make KO and Zayn the first segment.

Make them the main event.

?????

Profit.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I like this schedule, and for those that complain that SmackDown has only 4 shows, remember, they make up for that with the Special episodes. The Wildcard finals last year, Smackdown sin city, etc.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 11/28/17 Vs 11/21/17 ):
2.680M Vs 2.662M ( + 0.018M / + 0.68% )
0.820D Vs 0.820D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.680M Vs 2.759M ( - 0.079M / 97.14% )
0.820D Vs 0.907D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 11/28/17 Vs 11/29/16 ):
2.680M Vs 2.576M ( + 0.104M / + 4.04% )
0.820D Vs 0.790D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.576M Vs 3.111M ( - 0.535M / 82.80% )
0.790D Vs 1.083D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 9th by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

Holy shit, the show drew really well :lmao

Only things advertised were Orton vs KO, AJ vs The Singhs and Riott Squad vs Charlotte, Naomi and Nattie.

Was Jinder really holding down the ratings?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Still stuck at 2.6.

SD's overall rating beat the 3rd hour of Raw.

:ha

Good.


----------



## MC

Raw and SD's ratings :ha

This company fpalm


----------



## Ace

SantaStopper said:


> SD's overall rating beat the 3rd hour of Raw.
> 
> :ha
> 
> Good.


 I can't blame them, I'm tired of Roman.

No wonder men aren't chanting anymore for any of his segments. It's just women and Vince doesn't want that, it weakens his reaction big time. Males by design are put off by stuff like that (women cheering for something), it's uncool.



MC 16 said:


> Raw and SD's ratings :ha
> 
> This company fpalm


 SD closing in without even doing anything special.

I wonder how close it could get with good feuds and a Bryan heel turn.


----------



## MC

Law said:


> I can't blame them, I'm tired of Roman.
> 
> No wonder men aren't chanting anymore for any of his segments. It's just women and Vince doesn't want that, it weakens his reaction big time. Males by design are put off by stuff like that (women cheering for something), it's uncool.




You can tell by their half asses attempts at chanting.


----------



## Ace

MC 16 said:


> You can tell by their half asses attempts at chanting.


 I really just stopped caring, seriously. 

I tune out for his segments (like a lot seem to be doing judging by ratings) because its always going to be the same shit.

Tbf, I thought last nights SD was good. Hopefully they carry on with the momentum and continue to build the stories going into the PPV. 

SD beating Raw in the ratings under The Authority, Roman and S&D security would be amazing :lmao


----------



## MC

Law said:


> I really just stopped caring, seriously.
> 
> I tune out for his segments (like a lot seem to be doing judging by ratings) because its always going to be the same shit.
> 
> Tbf, I thought last nights SD was good. Hopefully they carry on with the momentum and can continue to build the stories going into the PPV.
> 
> SD beating Raw in the ratings under TS and Authority would be amazing :lmao


Same. Instead of watch his match, I turned on a PWG highlights on YT instead :laugh: 


I haven't watched anything of SD other then the main event but I might give it a full watch tomorrow.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Law said:


> I really just stopped caring, seriously.
> 
> I tune out for his segments (like a lot seem to be doing judging by ratings) because its always going to be the same shit.
> 
> Tbf, I thought last nights SD was good. Hopefully they carry on with the momentum and continue to build the stories going into the PPV.
> 
> SD beating Raw in the ratings under The Authority, Roman and S&D security would be amazing :lmao


I don't think SD would ever beat them, outside of when Raw is on Christmas day, of course. They should be beating them by now with Jinder no longer being Champion, no 3rd hour to drag them down, and no football to go against. Raw's ratings are beyond pathetic and the worst in history, but SD's are miserable too and SD is still a trash show, as well. The show got panned hard. Just what I'm seeing atm for both shows, sadly.


----------



## Ace

SantaStopper said:


> I don't think SD would ever beat them, outside of when Raw is on Christmas day, of course. They should be beating them by now with Jinder no longer being Champion, no 3rd hour to drag them down, and no football to go against. Raw's ratings are beyond pathetic and the worst in history, but SD's are miserable too and SD is still a trash show, as well. The show got panned hard. Just what I'm seeing atm for both shows, sadly.


 It's not like that at all.

They share the same viewerbase and fans are conditioned to watch Raw, not SD. It's going to take consistently well booked shows and strong feuds to overtake Raw.

You can't just snap your fingers and expect people to switch from watching Raw to SD, especially after SS where SD was booked to be the far inferior brand. It doesn't work like that.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Law said:


> It's not like that at all.
> 
> They share the same viewerbase and fans are conditioned to watch Raw, not SD. It's going to take consistently well booked shows and strong feuds to overtake Raw.
> 
> You can't just snap your fingers and expect people to switch from watching Raw to SD.


Snap fingers? They've been separate brands 1.5 years now.


----------



## Ace

SantaStopper said:


> Snap fingers? They've been separate brands 1.5 years now.


 Yet SD has been more or less on the same level, if not worse. Raw didn't have to suffer through a 6 month jobber world title reign either which dragged the show through the mud.

It's only now they're starting to get things together, it'll be interesting to see how they fare once they have some stronger feuds going.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Law said:


> Yet SD has been more or less on the same level, if not worse. Raw didn't have to suffer through a 6 month jobber world title reign either which dragged the show through the mud.


No. Instead Raw has had to go through a part-timer being Champion for the past 8 months and soon to be year straight to put over a guy who has already had multiple failed coronations..


----------



## MC

I wonder what the attendance for both shows was.


----------



## Ace

SantaStopper said:


> No. Instead Raw has had to go through a part-timer being Champion for the past 8 months and soon to be year straight to put over a guy who has already had multiple failed coronations..


 Raw has more stars to cover for that loss, even then, I'd take Brock over Jinder any day. He's a star.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Law said:


> Raw has more stars to cover for that loss, even then, I'd take Brock over Jinder any day. He's a star.


They do. Both shows have their struggles; that's all I'm saying. Everyone would take Brock over Jinder, I 100% agree. But it's not like Brock is there often.


----------



## chronoxiong

Smackdown about to beat RAW in the ratings war again. Wow. Please don't let Mahal hold the Title hostage again.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

97% RAW retention? It has taken a few months, but the Jinder effect is in full effect.







:hohoho


----------



## InexorableJourney

The last time Smackdown Live came close to toppling RAW, WWE pushed AJ down to the midcard.

I wonder if they'll do that again :hmmm


----------



## RainmakerV2

Again. Simple formula.

Make KO and Zayn the focal points of the show...



??????




Profit.


----------



## Ace

*Notes from the 11/28 TV tapings in Lexington. *
The Smackdown tapings drew 7,000, up from usual likely because it got more media pub in the market than usual since it was the first time WWE had done TV in Kentucky in many years due to the commission having a rule that matches would be stopped if there was any blood. WWE was okay with doing house shows with those parameters, but not TV tapings or PPVs. The arenas in the state complained to the local government that the rule was costing them major shows and finally several months back it was repealed.

Smackdown opened with Starrcade in Greensboro before 8,000 fans. 11/26 in Roanoke drew 3,700. 11/27 in Charleston, SC drew 2,000.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

SDL whoopin' Raw Hour 3's ass. addlin


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 12/5/17 Vs 11/28/17 ):
2.493M Vs 2.680M ( - 0.187M / - 6.98% )
0.760D Vs 0.820D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.493M Vs 2.813M ( - 0.320M / 88.62% )
0.760D Vs 0.870D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 12/5/17 Vs 12/6/16 ):
2.493M Vs 2.479M ( + 0.014M / + 0.56% )
0.760D Vs 0.780D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.479M Vs 2.977M ( - 0.498M / 83.27% )
0.780D Vs 0.973D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 9th by viewership.*


----------



## JDP2016

AJ got the title and ratings are still the same.

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ace

JDP2016 said:


> AJ got the title and ratings are still the same.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


 AJ wasn't even on the show fpalm

Even then, no one is a draw. The problem with SD was Jinder killing the main event scene and booking.

There are too many geeks on the show with no credibility, Jinder was the worst of them.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Ratings are reverting. Time to go back to


----------



## Nefarious_

But I thought that now the legend AJ Styles being the champion would propel the viewership to 3 million or something :mj4


----------



## SR7

lol still blaming Jinder when Styles has been champion for a month now. You would expect numbers to rise since Jinder was doing so much ' harm' to the business .


----------



## WorldClass

SR7 said:


> lol still blaming Jinder when Styles has been champion for a month now. You would expect numbers to rise since Jinder was doing so much ' harm' to the business .


Not if the damage can't be undone


----------



## Ace

Nefarious_ said:


> But I thought that now the legend AJ Styles being the champion would propel the viewership to 3 million or something :mj4


 Nothing for AJ was promoted all week and he wasn't even on the show lmao fpalm

You can very easily credit AJ keeping that rating at 2.6m all those weeks and this drop on AJ NOT being on the show. That's far more credible than blaming him for the rating of a show he was neither a part of or promoted for. 

But I wouldn't because I'm not a moron who clutches at straws, I realize it could be a number of reasons which you can't pin down without a segment by segment breakdown. What you can without a doubt credit him for is the taped rating of 2.6m. You can't give Jinder any good number. All the big numbers that came under his reign were for things going on outside his reign.

But this is pointless, we're here aruging about a jobber's ability to draw when he couldn't even get close to selling out an arena in his home country. Which is the main reason he was pushed for in the first place. It's delusional to think Jinder is a draw, no one is buying tickets to watch him.


----------



## MC

Nefarious_ said:


> But I thought that now the legend AJ Styles being the champion would propel the viewership to 3 million or something :mj4





SR7 said:


> lol still blaming Jinder when Styles has been champion for a month now. You would expect numbers to rise since Jinder was doing so much ' harm' to the business .


----------



## Ace

MC 16 said:


>


 Well, they just credited the under seige number to Jinder :lol

Was Jinder even promoted for that show lmao? Anyone with any sense would realize people tuned in thinking Raw would retaliate or we'd get an explanation.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Just more proof that KO is always gonna be Sami's big brother.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 12/12/17 Vs 12/5/17 ):
2.481M Vs 2.493M ( - 0.012M / - 0.48% )
0.710D Vs 0.760D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.481M Vs 2.685M ( - 0.204M / 92.40% )
0.710D Vs 0.847D

Note: SDL is 6th by demo & 13th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 12/12/17 Vs 12/13/16 ):
2.481M Vs 2.361M ( + 0.120M / + 5.08% )
0.710D Vs 0.730D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.361M Vs 2.758M ( - 0.397M / 85.61% )
0.730D Vs 0.920D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 9th by viewership.*


----------



## Nefarious_

Further down with AJ on the show :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

But some people were telling me that the ratings were down last week because AJ hadn't been "advertised"

Styles saving the ratings that Jinder killed folks.. :lol Proof right here..


----------



## MC

Only 200,000 between Raw and Smackdown :ha


----------



## WorldClass

So it's up from last years but there was more eyes on other programs this year is that the jest of it


----------



## JDP2016

Seems like the ratings haven't changed much since AJ won the title.

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Time to bring back the Ratings Raja.


----------



## Ace

Expected, nothing really interesting advertised and the show itself was nothing great.

If they were hitting 2.3m weekly, that's when they should start to worry.

Those who are making a big deal out of it don't know a thing.

~2.5m is the average rating they get nowadays with ~2.7m the top end (Vince's return, AJ-Orton, post WM etc.), if you're expecting it around there in December with top feuds of Shane/KO-Zayn and AJ-Jinder, I don't know what to say tbh.

The deviations for SD are a lot smaller because of the smaller viewer base and 2 hr slot, you're not going to have a massive drop off which lowers the overall rating like Raw weekly.


----------



## Nefarious_

Let the excuses pour in :lol. Styles pulling no better ratings than Jinder did and Styles has been infinitely more pushed than Jinder in the past 2 years. Saving the ratings in some glorious fashion indeed :lol The show got a better viewership last week without him than this week with him :lol.


----------



## Ace

Nefarious_ said:


> Let the excuses pour in :lol. Styles pulling no better ratings than Jinder did and Styles has been infinitely more pushed than Jinder in the past 2 years. Saving the ratings in some glorious fashion indeed :lol The show got a better viewership last week without him than this week with him :lol.


 No one said that :lol

Keep putting words into peoples mouths lol just because Roman is tanking the ratings on Raw.

Maybe if there was an hourly breakdown we could analyse the numbers, but nah, we only have the whole rating and right now it's SD's 2.48 v Raw's 2.68. That's a win in SD's books, they had Nakamura vs KO advertised and a confrontation between AJ and some jobber whereas Raw had Kane-Braun, Roman-Cesaro IC title, Joe-Ambrose and Rollins-Sheamus.

The funny thing is Vince is probably happy with this rating because this is a throwaway PPV with weak top matches and they're still getting 2.5m+ a week.


----------



## Nefarious_

Law said:


> No one said that :lol
> 
> Keep putting words into peoples mouths lol just because Roman is tanking the ratings on Raw.


Nice deflection.

Still doesn't excuse this week's rating though.. the viewership actually fell from last week without Styles to this week with Styles in it :lol. You can't make this shit up. Hilarious. And people were saying that Jinder is tanking the brand. Jeez.


----------



## Ace

Nefarious_ said:


> Nice deflection.
> 
> Still doesn't excuse this week's rating though.. the viewership actually fell from last week without Styles to this week with Styles in it :lol. You can't make this shit up. Hilarious. And people were saying that Jinder is tanking the brand. Jeez.


SDL Vs RAW:
2.481M Vs 2.685M ( - 0.204M / *92.40%* )

By no means is 2.48m in December a weak rating for SD.

SD retained 92% of Raw's audience with nothing interesting advertised. Raw had 4 big matches advertised and was only ahead by 200,000.


----------



## MC

HOW THE SHIV STOLE CHRISTMAS said:


> Time to bring back the Ratings Raja.


----------



## Nefarious_

Law said:


> SDL Vs RAW:
> 2.481M Vs 2.685M ( - 0.204M / *92.40%* )
> 
> By no means is 2.48m in December a weak rating for SD.
> 
> SD retained 92% of Raw's audience with nothing interesting advertised. Raw had 4 big matches advertised and was only ahead by 200,000.


First tell me why Styles couldn't even retain the viewership from last week, forget RAW lol. When the rating actually FALLS when the champion comes back after a week's absence.. you know something's wrong.


----------



## BeckyLynchFan29

Nefarious_ said:


> Let the excuses pour in :lol. Styles pulling no better ratings than Jinder did and Styles has been infinitely more pushed than Jinder in the past 2 years. Saving the ratings in some glorious fashion indeed :lol The show got a better viewership last week without him than this week with him :lol.


um Jinder is still in the title picture so lets wait and see how ratings go after the ppv when AJ is fueding with someone else and not that jobber Jinder.


----------



## Nefarious_

BeckyLynchFan29 said:


> um Jinder is still in the title picture so lets wait and see how ratings go after the ppv when AJ is fueding with someone else and not that jobber Jinder.


So every bad rating under Jinder should be attributed to Nakamura instead? You're reaching now.The viewership actually was HIGHER without Styles last week than with Styles this week :lol.


----------



## MC

@Law We got it wrong, he isn't Stone Hot. He is Saturn. 


Anyway, the feud the champion is a contributing factor to why someone draws a rating.


----------



## Ace

Nefarious_ said:


> So every bad rating under Jinder should be attributed to Nakamura instead? You're reaching now.The viewership actually was HIGHER without Styles last week than with Styles this week :lol.


 Or just maybe Orton vs Zayn is a bigger draw than Nakamura vs KO.

Call me stunned :lol


----------



## Nefarious_

Law said:


> Or just maybe Orton vs Zayn is a bigger draw than Nakamura vs KO.
> 
> Call me stunned :lol


Or maybe "the champion" Styles is almost a non factor for the ratings :draper2.


----------



## Ace

MC 16 said:


> @Law We got it wrong, he isn't Stone Hot. He is Saturn.
> 
> 
> Anyway, the feud the champion is a contributing factor to why someone draws a rating.


 Whatever, this guy is trolling so much lol. Fighting over a couple of thousand and trying to call a decent/good rating to push his agenda. ~2.5m in December is great for SD, especially after the burial at SS. This isn't Raw we're they capable of doing excess of 3m.

For someone who has followed it for a while, it's a great rating for a really shit period where nothing special going on. They were doing 2.3m often last year but they've actually grown since then, no idea how since they haven't consistently put on good shows to justify it.


----------



## Ace

Nefarious_ said:


> Or maybe "the champion" Styles is almost a non factor for the ratings :draper2.


 Well, SD has done its biggest numbers with him in the main event.

Care to explain that?

If there was a top 10 SD ratings post split, AJ would have main evented at least 4 of those shows.

Top 20, he'd probably feature in half of them.


----------



## Ace

SmackDown ratings were down for the second straight week on Tuesday night, though they didn't fall as sharply as Raw did this week. The show averaged 2.481 million viewers, down just 12,000 viewers from the previous Tuesday.

This was the first week in a long time that SmackDown finished outside of the top 10 in terms of total viewers on cable, with Tuesday being a particularly strong night for news channels due to coverage of the special election in Alabama. SmackDown was sixth in the 18-49 demo with a 0.71 rating. The show is usually either first or second in that demo on cable.
*
For the fourth straight week, SmackDown was up in the year-over-year ratings as they continue to hold up well since the WWE Championship was switched over to AJ Styles.*

In terms of audience retention, SmackDown held almost 93 percent of the Raw audience from the previous night, an above average total. Raw had done its fourth lowest total of the year, so that shouldn't come as a surprise.

Here's a look at SmackDown numbers since the start of the fall TV season:


----------



## Nefarious_

Law said:


> Well, SD has done its biggest numbers with him in the main event.
> 
> Care to explain that?
> 
> If there was a top 10 SD ratings post split, AJ would have main evented at least 4 of those shows.


You just got to go see last year how Styles was doing without Ambrose and Cena carrying him :lol. He was drawing the mammoth 2.3s in the main events against Ellsworth. Three of those 4 episodes had The Undertaker return, a show when they put 3 title matches and the Post WM Smackdown. 

Styles even had the FOTC Cena for quite a bit of time and was coming soon after defeating Cena CLEAN at SS, a luxury Jinder didn't have who never even feuded with him for the title.

Still it's hilarious that the ratings without the champion were actually higher than with him :lol.

EDIT: Blaming the News for the rating now :lol. Atleast RAW has a legitimate excuse in the NFL, Smackdown has fallen so low now that even the News owns it lol


----------



## Ace

Nefarious_ said:


> You just got to go see last year how Styles was doing without Ambrose and Cena carrying him :lol. He was drawing the mammoth 2.3s in the main events against Ellsworth. Three of those 4 episodes had The Undertaker return, a show when they put 3 title matches and the Post WM Smackdown.
> 
> Styles even had the FOTC Cena for quite a bit of time and was coming soon after defeating Cena CLEAN at SS, a luxury Jinder didn't have who never even feuded with him for the title.
> 
> Still it's hilarious that the ratings without the champion were actually higher than with him :lol.


 SD drew its best numbers outside those feuds :lol

Now are you going to finally come up with a decent point, or are we done here?


----------



## Nefarious_

Law said:


> SD drew its best numbers outside those feuds :lol
> 
> Now are you going to finally come up with a decent point, or are we done here?


When are you going to come up with a decent explanation for the viewership actually being better without Styles last week than with him this week? :lol That's the real question.


----------



## MC

Law said:


> Well, SD has done its biggest numbers with him in the main event.
> 
> Care to explain that?
> 
> *If there was a top 10 SD ratings post split, AJ would have main evented at least 4 of those shows.*
> 
> Top 20, he'd probably feature in half of them.


1. 2.14 rating 11/04/17, AJ main evented

2. 2.02 rating 27/12/16, AJ Main evented

3. 2.02 rating 04/04/17, No Aj main event

4. 2.0 rating 31/01/17, Aj Main event

5. 1.96 rating 21/02/17, AJ was in a battle royal

Those are top 5 ratings, post brand split.


----------



## Ace

Tbf, those last few good ratings are all on KO-Zayn-Bryan, they're the ones keeping SD decent/good.

AJ-Jinder isn't a draw, I'm a huge AJ mark and I don't really care about this feud whatsoever.

IMO KO/Zayn v Orton/Nakamura should main event, it's the biggest match on the card and has been built well, the only issue is it would silly for it to main event it at a show called Clash of Champions. But that's what happens when you put a World Champion in the ring with a jobber.



Nefarious_ said:


> When are you going to come up with a decent explanation for the viewership actually being better without Styles last week than with him this week? :lol That's the real question.


 Read above fpalm

This was the first week in a long time that SmackDown finished outside of the top 10 in terms of total viewers on cable, *with Tuesday being a particularly strong night for news channels due to coverage of the special election in Alabama. *

We're done here.


----------



## Bink77

Tbh, no champs are draws anymore. Besides, maybe it's not AJs fault but rather Vinces for making the diehards (thats all That's left anyways) not want to return after jinders mediocre fucking reign of shit....

Maybe that's the wrong word. That insults mediocrity. Shit. Shit is the best word to describe jinder, Smackdown and pretty much all of wwe right now.


----------



## Ace

Bink77 said:


> Tbh, no champs are draws anymore. Besides, maybe it's not AJs fault but rather Vinces for making the diehards (thats all That's left anyways) not want to return after jinders mediocre fucking reign of shit....


 No one draws, the company has no stars. The one they're trying to make a star is rejected.


----------



## Bink77

Law said:


> No one draws, the company has no stars. The one they're trying to make a star is rejected.


And AJs 2nd run now feels Too little Too late


----------



## Ace

Bink77 said:


> And AJs 2nd run now feels Too little Too late


 Meh, the entire year has gone and SD hasn't had any of their top stars face one another in a big program since AJ-Cena.

AJ-Orton, AJ-Nakamura, KO-Orton, KO-Cena, Cena-Nakamura, Orton-Nakamura etc. Not counting AJ-KO as it was for the US title and they botched it.

If they aren't going to do it in the lead up to WM, when are they ever going to do it?

Orton has done fuckall the entire year and AJ's best stuff came against a Raw star with little to no writing lol.


----------



## T Hawk

man AJ doing about as well drawing wise as he did in NJPW or TNA

Reminder that when he left NJPW attendance increased; when he went to WWE ratings and house show attendance decreased.


----------



## Ace

Idk why people are attributing these good ratings (they're good if you actually follow them) to AJ :lol

Even managed ~2.5m with a big political event which drew well for news channels.

KO and Zayn have drawn well, AJ is feuding with a jobber. Seems like a lot of people are ignorant when it comes to SD's numbers.


----------



## Littbarski

Bink77 said:


> Tbh, no champs are draws anymore. Besides, maybe it's not AJs fault but rather Vinces for making the diehards (thats all That's left anyways) not want to return after jinders mediocre fucking reign of shit....
> 
> Maybe that's the wrong word. That insults mediocrity. Shit. Shit is the best word to describe jinder, Smackdown and pretty much all of wwe right now.


Well Smackdown viewership is up the last four weeks compared to a year ago so either WWE increased their hardcore base or they returned earlier and last night had competition from the election.

Speaking of hardcores, Smackdown did a million more viewers than the two NBA games on ESPN last night. Does that mean the WWE has more hardcore fans than the NBA?


----------



## T Hawk

Law said:


> (they're good if you actually follow them)


bruh, it's okay if your favourite wrestlers don't draw. So long as you like them, then that should be enough for you.

It's no reason for you to try and spin tales and misrepresent things that you know are false and end up looking silly in the process.


----------



## Ace

T Hawk said:


> bruh, it's okay if your favourite wrestlers don't draw. So long as you like them, then that should be enough for you.
> 
> It's no reason for you to try and spin tales and misrepresent things that you know are false and end up looking silly in the process.


 Reading is your friend. 

Meltzer follws the ratings essentially called it a good number with stiff competiion. Anything around 2.5m outside RR or WM is a good number for SD.

Around this time last year the show was doing around 2.3-2.4m, this time around they've definitely grown are are doing high 2.4m and a couple 2.6s.

You don't have a clue if you expect them to be doing 2.6-2.7m consistently when their ceiling is ~2.7m outside mini PPVs and draft/inter brand specials.



T Hawk said:


> man AJ doing about as well drawing wise as he did in NJPW or TNA
> 
> Reminder that when he left NJPW attendance increased; when he went to WWE ratings and house show attendance decreased.


 When AJ left TNA, TNA died :shrug


----------



## T Hawk

Law said:


> When AJ left TNA, TNA died.


TNA died because Spike TV dropped them due to Vince Russo not because AJ Styles left :lmao 

My point is this and stands true:

TNA never really went anywhere with Styles being featured
NJPW never really went anywhere with Styles being featured
WWE never really went anywhere with Styles being featured

If AJ Styles drew, TNA would've been in A LOT better shape and would've actaully made ratings progress

Hell Cody is bigly outdrawing what Styles did in ROH a few years ago.


----------



## Ace

T Hawk said:


> TNA died because Spike TV dropped them due to Vince Russo not because AJ Styles left :lmao
> 
> My point is this and stands true:
> 
> TNA never really went anywhere with Styles being featured
> NJPW never really went anywhere with Styles being featured
> WWE never really went anywhere with Styles being featured
> 
> If AJ Styles drew, TNA would've been in A LOT better shape and would've actaully made ratings progress
> 
> Hell Cody is bigly outdrawing what Styles did in ROH a few years ago.


 IIRC the highest rated TNA episode ever featured AJ in the main event. The reason the company never took off was because they became a WWE lite and never pushed their home grown guys as the star of the show.

Cody isn't selling out shit for ROH, it's Kenny or The Bucks. AJ draws more to a random solo signing session than Cody does to a ROH show.


----------



## Bink77

Littbarski said:


> Well Smackdown viewership is up the last four weeks compared to a year ago so either WWE increased their hardcore base or they returned earlier and last night had competition from the election.
> 
> Speaking of hardcores, Smackdown did a million more viewers than the two NBA gamesm on ESPN last night. Does that mean the WWE has more hardcore fans than the NBA?


Seriously?? If you count everyone that torrents, downloads, streams, catches highlights, or at least keeps up with the highlights, absolutely. Remember at one time 33 million ppl watched Andre beat Hogan one Friday night. The fans are there. The love for it is still there. Its Just that the vast are rejecting this version of it and do not find it interesting enough to watch live. If 98 was today with Austin and rock etc, most would still watch live because it was entertaining as hell and you didn't want any spoilers. Now, if i dont read a spoiler of something ANYTHING interesting i will not watch. Period.


----------



## AlternateDemise

Nefarious_ said:


> Nice deflection.
> 
> Still doesn't excuse this week's rating though.. the viewership actually fell from last week without Styles to this week with Styles in it :lol. You can't make this shit up. Hilarious. And people were saying that Jinder is tanking the brand. Jeez.


And for all we know he was.

Don't know why people continue to make these baseless claims in this thread. We don't know the reasons for the ratings they're getting when trying to compare wrestlers because we have no ratings breakdowns, so we have no clue how much AJ draws or how much Jinder drew on a regular basis when he was champion. 

Enough with this stupid debate.



T Hawk said:


> TNA died because Spike TV dropped them due to Vince Russo not because AJ Styles left :lmao
> 
> My point is this and stands true:
> 
> TNA never really went anywhere with Styles being featured
> NJPW never really went anywhere with Styles being featured
> WWE never really went anywhere with Styles being featured
> 
> If AJ Styles drew, TNA would've been in A LOT better shape and would've actaully made ratings progress
> 
> Hell Cody is bigly outdrawing what Styles did in ROH a few years ago.


I would rather not start a TNA related debate here but I feel the need to point this out.

TNA most definitely went somewhere with Styles being featured. They grew at an unbelievable rate in the span of seven years with AJ being one of the faces of the company. Yes, he wasn't necessarily a main eventer, but he was without question the face of the company in their rise to relevance. Hell, TNA stopped growing when the focus was taken away from him and was put more on the incredible amount of big named talent they were bringing in. I'm not saying that was the reason the ratings hit their peak, but regardless of the matter, they most certainly went somewhere with Styles being featured. That statement simply isn't true.


----------



## T Hawk

Law said:


> Cody isn't selling out shit for ROH, it's Kenny or The Bucks. AJ draws more to a random solo signing session than Cody does to a ROH show.


Speaking of people who draw an unfathomable amount more than AJ Styles....
Kenny Omega has done, like, 8 ROH shots this whole year :lmao Cody has basically been working their full time and ROH is breaking profit records for them.

Care to guess again? 
I know you don't follow the indies so I don't expect you to be up on who's drawing what where, but trust that ROH's business has never been better since Cody joined and he's about to headline their biggest show of the year. A show that will do great numbers and a show that doesn't have Big Dimes Omega on it or heavily loaded with exclusive NJPW talent, either.



BlueSanta said:


> I'm not saying that was the reason the ratings hit their peak, but regardless of the matter, they most certainly went somewhere with Styles being featured. That statement simply isn't true.


Here's Big Draw AJ's time in TNA in gif form. 
Also, included are the gates he drew in TNA. It's an easy gate to count because they gave tickets away to park goers.








TNA Tickets Sold: 0

Listen people should like AJ because they like AJ that is enough of a reason. However, anybody claiming he is or ever has been a draw is a fraud.

Like I said: He left NJPW and attendance went up; He went to WWE and attendance went down. This is a fact. He's like a modern day Bret Hart in that regard. Bret left WWF and attendance/ratings went up; Bret went to WCW and attendance/ratings went down.


----------



## Ace

T Hawk said:


> Speaking of people who draw an unfathomable amount more than AJ Styles....
> Kenny Omega has done, like, 8 ROH shots this whole year :lmao Cody has basically been working their full time and ROH is breaking profit records for them.
> 
> Care to guess again?
> I know you don't follow the indies so I don't expect you to be up on who's drawing what where, but trust that ROH's business has never been better since Cody joined and he's about to headline their biggest show of the year. A show that will do great numbers and a show that doesn't have Big Dimes Omega on it or heavily loaded with exclusive NJPW talent, either.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's Big Draw AJ's time in TNA in gif form.
> Also, included are the gates he drew in TNA. It's an easy gate to count because they gave tickets away to park goers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNA Tickets Sold: 0
> 
> Listen people should like AJ because they like AJ that is enough of a reason. However, anybody claiming he is or ever has been a draw is a fraud.
> 
> Like I said: He left NJPW and attendance went up; He went to WWE and attendance went down. This is a fact. He's like a modern day Bret Hart in that regard. Bret left WWF and attendance/ratings went up; Bret went to WCW and attendance/ratings went down.


 AJ is one of the top merch sellers for the biggest wrestling promotion in the world and one of their biggest stars. He has more merch items available than anyone on the roster, that includes John Cena. WWE developmental shows get a bigger crowd than the PPVs Cody main events.

Cody Rhodes is someone the same company thought wasn't a star, all he's done outside the WWE is prove them right. His only appeal is because of the likes of Kenny and the Bucks who are infinitely more over than him, aside from that or name dropping the WWE to be all meta and edgy.

Hell, for December AJ has 4-6 items in the top 8/10 best sellers.


----------



## T Hawk

Law said:


> AJ is one of the top merch sellers for the biggest wrestling promotion in the world and one of their biggest stars. He has more merch items available than anyone on the roster, that includes John Cena. WWE developmental shows get a bigger crowd than the PPVs Cody main events.
> 
> Cody Rhodes is someone the same company thought wasn't a star, all he's done outside the WWE is prove them right. His only appeal is because of the likes of Kenny and the Bucks who are infinitely more over than him, aside from that or name dropping the WWE to be all meta and edgy.


Congrats on selling a few t-shirts. Reminder that Hurricane Helms was one of the top merch sellers in WWE for a long time, too, sweetie. What next? You gonan say "but muh POP listen to muh POP!" Scotty 2 Hotty's Worm was more over than the People's Elbow at one point I guess that means he draws huh?

Also :lmao imagine thinking WWE cannot be wrong. EVER. Breaking News, Ace: WWE is wrong a lot of the time. 
Heck, wouldn't you say that they were wrong for 10-years about your pal AJ Styles. WWE wanted absolutely nothing to do with him for the longest time even southern boy Jim Ross said fuck no to AJ Styles.

Cody has done something AJ Styles never did: make $1,000,000 on the indies. AJ's best year on the indies was likely never even 1/3 of that number.

Cody as the face of ROH has broken every money record ROH ever had. This is the same ROH AJ Styles was in literally right before he went to WWE.

Draws sell tickets and move ratings. AJ Styles doesn't do that and it is proven both in America and in Japan where he was given the Roman Reigns push from literally Day 1. Cody doesn't draw ratings..yet, but he sells a fuck load of seats and he's even planning on promoting a 10,000 seat event in which he's gonna main event. AJ Styles never even saw what 10,000 seats at one time looked like until he went to Japan and only drew 4,000 in the 17,000 seat Yokohama Arena.


----------



## SR7

The Champ is carrying the Camp
(to lowest ratings)


----------



## validreasoning

Styles isn't a difference maker no but giving cody the credit for roh would be incorrect. It's clearly the partnership with njpw that is growing roh not Cody.

SuperCard of honor was the biggest show they did ticket selling wise and that was Hardy's vs bucks, global wars in Chicago was struggling to sell tickets and they added Omega and sold it out, recent shows in Florida were struggling and again they added Omega and sold loads of tickets

And btw you take with a pinch of salt the claims wrestlers or anyone involved in wrestling makes regarding money made or items sold. Karl Anderson was claiming he was making 800k a year in NJPW and pro wrestling tees are claiming the bullet club sold 400,000 shirts in four months at hot topic..more than Austin did at his peak!!


----------



## AlternateDemise

T Hawk said:


>


These names :mj4 :mj4 :mj4

Pole on a midget match :maury


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 12/19/17 Vs 12/12/17 ):
2.578M Vs 2.481M ( - 0.097M / - 3.91% )
0.750D Vs 0.710D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.578M Vs 2.786M ( - 0.208M / 92.53% )
0.750D Vs 0.903D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 12/19/17 Vs 12/20/16 ):
2.578M Vs 2.637M ( - 0.059M / - 2.24% )
0.750D Vs 0.880D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.637M Vs 2.956M ( - 0.319M / 89.21% )
0.880D Vs 1.043D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership/Demo of NXT ( 12/13/17 ) Vs the lowest viewed/rated SD ( 11/26/15 ) in recent times: *

*NXT Viewership & Demo ( 12/13/17 ):

0.822M
0.270D

Note: NXT last week ( 12/13/17 ) was 22nd by demo and 40th by viewership.*










* SD Viewership & Demo ( 11/26/15 ):

1.652M
0.460D

Note: SD during Thanksgiving 15' ( 11/26/15 ) was 1st by demo and 2nd by viewership.*

*NXT ( 12/13/17 ) Vs SD ( 11/26/15 ):

0.822M Vs 1.652M ( - 0.830M / 49.76% )
0.270D Vs 0.460D*


----------



## Ace

Decent number for a filler epsiode with no feuds.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Smackdown Live really is the house that AJ Styles built.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

SDL whoopin' dat Hour 3 RAW'S ass. addlin


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 12/26/17 Vs 12/19/17 ):
2.656M Vs 2.578M ( + 0.078M / + 3.03% )
0.820D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.656M Vs 2.704M ( - 0.048M / 98.22% )
0.820D Vs 0.837D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 12/26/17 Vs 12/27/16 ):
2.656M Vs 2.885M ( - 0.229M / - 7.94% )
0.820D Vs 0.940D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.885M Vs 2.856M ( + 0.029M / + 1.02% )
0.940D Vs 0.903D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 3rd by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The Raja Rarings Recovery continues.







Over 98% RAW retention and almost a draw in the demo. :hohoho

Just realized that SDL beat both Hours 2 and 3 of RAW. :sodone


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

If SD was going to beat Raw, this was going to be the week with Raw on Christmas and up against NFL & NBA at the same time. Pretty surprised Raw still won. Monday Night Football is over for the year starting next week, too.


----------



## validreasoning

Showstopper said:


> If SD was going to beat Raw, this was going to be the week with Raw on Christmas and up against NFL & NBA at the same time. Pretty surprised Raw still won. Monday Night Football is over for the year starting next week, too.


Monday night football might be over but the sugar bowl and Rose bowl are this coming Monday and the championship game is the following Monday both much bigger games viewership wise than mnf. College championship will draw 30 million viewers head to head with raw


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

validreasoning said:


> Monday night football might be over but the sugar bowl and Rose bowl are this coming Monday and the championship game is the following Monday both much bigger games viewership wise than mnf. College championship will draw 30 million viewers head to head with raw


That is true. Excellent points. They are big draws, as well.


----------



## D.M.N.

With quarter four (October to December) now complete, here are how things are looking percentage wise. The +/- is an average of the comparison between (i.e. for Q4 2017):

- the previous quarter (Q3 2017)
- one year earlier (Q4 2016)
- two years earlier (Q4 2015)

Here are the quarter four percentage figures for recent years:

*+7.3% = 2017*
+2.1% = 2016
+1.3% = 2013
-4.3% = 2014
-15.3% = 2015

From a year perspective:

Q4 2012 = 2.58 million
Q4 2013 = 2.74 million (up 6.0%)
Q4 2014 = 2.54 million (down 7.1%)
Q4 2015 = 2.10 million (down 17.3%)
Q4 2016 = 2.43 million (up 15.5%)
Q4 2017 = 2.51 million (up 3.5%)

Across 2017, WWE SmackDown averaged *2.55 million viewers*, SmackDown's highest yearly average since 2014.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Every time AJ actually wrestles on Smackdown Live the viewers rise, all hail AJ.


----------



## BeckyLynchFan29

Showstopper said:


> That is true. Excellent points. They are big draws, as well.


it does not matter if WWE would put out a good product the fans would watch no mater what else is on.I remember this company use to whip mnf and the nba playoffs ass back in the attitude era.


----------



## validreasoning

WWE never came close to Monday night football actually even during the biggest boom period the company ever experienced. Raw vs mnf ratings



> 1998
> 9/14- 4.0 to 12.7 for 49ers/Redskins
> 9/21- 4.0 to 13.1 for Cowboys/Giants
> 9/28- 4.5 to 11.1 for Buccaneers/Lions
> 10/5- 4.5 to 16.8 for Vikings/Packers (Battle of 4-0 teams)
> 10/12- 4.8 to 11.7 for Dolphins/Jaguars (3-1 vs. 4-0)
> 10/19- 5.0 to 14.6 for Jets/Patriots
> 10/26- 4.5 to 14.5 for Steelers/Chiefs (Battle of 4-2 teams)
> 11/2- 4.8 to 13.2 for Cowboys/Eagles (34-0 rout)
> 11/9- 5.0 to 15.6 for Packers/Steelers
> 11/16- 5.5 to 13.9 for Broncos/Chiefs
> 11/23- 4.9 to 15.1 for Dolphins/Patriots
> 11/30- 5.0 to 14 for Giants/49ers (31-7 rout)
> 12/7- 5.2 to 15.4 for Packers/Buccaneers
> 12/14- 5.2 to 11.9 for Lions/49ers (35-13)
> 12/21- 4.7 to 16.3 for Broncos/Dolphins
> 12/28- 4.9 to 11.5 for Steelers/Jaguars
> 
> 1999
> 9/13- 6.0 to 16.1 for Dolphins/Broncos
> 9/20- 6.1 to 15.2 for Falcons/Cowboys
> 9/27- 6.8 (Rock, This Is Your Life) to 13.3 for 49ers/Cardinals
> 10/4- 5.9 to 14 for Bills/Dolphins
> 10/11- 6.5 to 10.4 for Jagaurs/Jets
> 10/18- 5.4 to 12.1 for Cowboys/Giants
> 10/25- 5.5 to 12.5 for Falcons/Steelers
> 11/1- 5.9 to 14.9 for Seahawks/Packers (Battle of 4-2 teams, Holmgren returns to Lambeau)
> 11/8- 5.4 to 16.2 for Cowboys/Vikings
> 11/15- 6.3 to 13.4 for Jets/Patriots
> 11/22- 5.5 to 13 for Raiders/Broncos
> 11/29- 6.5 (RAW is LOVE) vs. 13.1 for Packers/49ers (Battle of underachieving NFC 90s powers in decline)
> 12/6- 6.0 to 14.3 for Vikings/Buccaneers
> 12/13- 6.1 to 13.3 for Broncos/Jaguars (McMahon-Helmsley era begins
> 12/20- 5.8 to 15.1 for Packers/Vikings
> 12/27- 5.8 to 14.4 for Jets/Dolphins (Dan Marino's final home game)
> 1/3/2000- 6.5 to 10 for 49ers/Falcons (Battle of 4-11 underachieving teams who fell off after big 1998 seasons)
> 
> 2000
> 9/4- 4.2 to 15.3 for Broncos/Rams (Wild 41-36 shootout)
> 9/11- 5.8 to 12.2 for Patriots/Jets
> 9/18- 5.8 to 13.5 for Cowboys/Redskins
> 9/25- 5.4 to 10.3 for Jaguars/Colts
> 10/2- 5.4 to 11.4 for Seahawks/Chiefs
> 10/9- 5.4 to 14.9 for Buccaneers/Vikings
> 10/16- 4.8 to 10.6 for Jaguars/Titans (AFC Championship rematch)
> 10/23- 5.5 to 12.1 for Dolphins/Jets (Monday Night Miracle)
> 10/30- 5.0 to 13.8 for Titans/Redskins (6-1 vs. 6-2)
> 11/6- 5.1 to 14.6 for Vikings/Packers (HE DID WHAT?!)
> 11/13- 5.0 to 12.4 for Raiders/Broncos (Last MNF game at old Mile High Stadium)
> 11/20- 5.0 to 13.9 for Redskins/Rams (6-4 vs. 8-2)
> 11/27- 5.0 to 12.5 for Packers/Panthers
> 12/4- 5.0 to 9.9 for Chiefs/Patriots
> 12/11- 5.8 to 11.3 for Bills/Colts (Wild Card elimination game)
> 12/18- 4.8 to 15.2 for Rams/Buccaneers
> 12/25- 3.8 to 11 for Cowboys/Titans


----------



## RainmakerV2

Owens and AJ = Profit.


----------



## WorldClass

validreasoning said:


> WWE never came close to Monday night football actually even during the biggest boom period the company ever experienced. Raw vs mnf ratings


What you and others don't know is the NFL isn't anything worth a damn here in Australia and really the rest of the world but hey since the WWE has a global product that reaches across the globe one would think it will be the WWE that has more money than the NFL


----------



## BBally

T Hawk said:


> Congrats on selling a few t-shirts. Reminder that Hurricane Helms was one of the top merch sellers in WWE for a long time, too, sweetie. What next? You gonan say "but muh POP listen to muh POP!" Scotty 2 Hotty's Worm was more over than the People's Elbow at one point I guess that means he draws huh?
> 
> Also :lmao imagine thinking WWE cannot be wrong. EVER. Breaking News, Ace: WWE is wrong a lot of the time.
> Heck, wouldn't you say that they were wrong for 10-years about your pal AJ Styles. WWE wanted absolutely nothing to do with him for the longest time even southern boy Jim Ross said fuck no to AJ Styles.
> 
> Cody has done something AJ Styles never did: make $1,000,000 on the indies. AJ's best year on the indies was likely never even 1/3 of that number.
> 
> Cody as the face of ROH has broken every money record ROH ever had. This is the same ROH AJ Styles was in literally right before he went to WWE.
> 
> Draws sell tickets and move ratings. AJ Styles doesn't do that and it is proven both in America and in Japan where he was given the Roman Reigns push from literally Day 1. Cody doesn't draw ratings..yet, but he sells a fuck load of seats and he's even planning on promoting a 10,000 seat event in which he's gonna main event. AJ Styles never even saw what 10,000 seats at one time looked like until he went to Japan and only drew 4,000 in the 17,000 seat Yokohama Arena.


Funny how you became quiet when the recent rating numbers for Smackdown came out or how you ignored how Smackdown's rating increased since Styles took the title off of Jinder :laugh: :lmao


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Will SDL achieve the boyhood dream and actually upend RAW this week? Probably not, but I'd love to see it. :hohoho


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 1/2/18 Vs 12/26/17 ):
2.720M Vs 2.656M ( + 0.064M / + 2.41% )
0.820D Vs 0.820D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.720M Vs 2.865M ( - 0.145M / 94.94% )
0.820D Vs 0.970D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 1/2/18 Vs 1/3/17 ):
2.720M Vs 2.596M ( + 0.124M / + 4.78% )
0.820D Vs 0.880D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.596M Vs 3.047M ( - 0.451M / 85.20% )
0.880D Vs 1.090D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 10th by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

Holy shit balls, AJ-Zayn drew really well :lmao

That was the only thing promoted.


----------



## Ace

Tuesday night's SmackDown Live on USA Network averaged 2.72 million viewers, the third straight week they have seen an increase.

Up 2% from the final show of 2017, SmackDown finished fifth for the night on cable in terms of total TV viewers and were second in the key 18-49 demo with a 0.82 rating.

This continues a strong ratings pattern for Team Blue since AJ Styles won the World title on November 7th. Since that win, the show has averaged 2.609 million viewers up 5.3% from the 2.477 million viewer average they had during the Jinder Mahal reign.

Compared to 2017, tuesday's viewership total was up almost 5% and would've been their sixth highest audience in 2017. The audience retention from WWE Raw the previous night was over 95%, one of the highest totals since the brand split in July 2016.

With next week's Raw show going up against the NCAA college football championship, there is a good chance that SmackDown beats Raw for the first time in over a year.

https://www.f4wonline.com/wwe-news/wwe-smackdown-live-ratings-grow-third-straight-week-249226


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Whatcha gonna do RAW when AJ Styles and SDL run wild on you? :hohoho


----------



## tducey

Seeing Styles is going vs. Owens/Zayn at the Royal Rumble. That should be a good match and hopefully will plant the seeds for Owens/Zayn at WM 34.


----------



## RainmakerV2

You mean a long term storyline with twists and turns is increasing viewership weekly?






































Naw.


----------



## tducey

Another thought entered my mind; If Strowman wins the Rumble and stays on RAW and gets into the WM 34 title match with Reigns and Lesnar, it might set up a fun tournament for the #1 contender for the Smackdown title at WM 34. Just a thought on my part but would be a fun thing to see.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 1/9/18 Vs 1/2/18 ):
2.603M Vs 2.720M ( - 0.117M / - 4.30% )
0.760D Vs 0.820D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.603M Vs 2.760M ( - 0.157M / 94.31% )
0.760D Vs 0.900D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 8th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 1/9/18 Vs 1/10/17 ):
2.603M Vs 2.533M ( + 0.070M / + 2.76% )
0.760D Vs 0.850D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.533M Vs 2.907M ( - 0.374M / 87.13% )
0.850D Vs 0.967D

Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 10th by viewership.*


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Another strong rating, up year over year, and didn't last years show have Cena on it? Smackdown's been doing really well since AJ became champ.


----------



## InexorableJourney

WWE shift focus away from AJ and ratings go down, will they learn?


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 1/16/18 Vs 1/9/18 ):
2.602M Vs 2.603M ( - 0.001M / - 0.00039% )
0.780D Vs 0.760D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.602M Vs 3.250M ( - 0.648M / 80.06% )
0.780D Vs 1.053D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 1/16/18 Vs 1/17/17 ):
2.602M Vs 2.652M ( - 0.050M / - 1.89% )
0.780D Vs 0.900D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.652M Vs 3.271M ( - 0.619M / 81.08% )
0.900D Vs 1.137D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 10th by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

SDL holding steady, but down to 80% RAW retention due to RAW's ratings spike this week. I imagine they'll be even farther behind after RAW 25.


----------



## PrettyLush

who the hell watch real housewives and oak island


----------



## tducey

Different strokes for different folks I guess, Pretty Lush. Also say all you will about wrestling the past few yrs. it still ranks high among all shows on cable so people are still watching it, just not as much as during the Attitude Era.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 1/23/18 Vs 1/16/18 ):
2.580M Vs 2.602M ( - 0.022M / - 0.85% )
0.800D Vs 0.780D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.580M Vs 4.530M ( - 0.1950M / 56.95% )
0.800D Vs 1.710D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 10th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 1/23/18 Vs 1/24/17 ):
2.580M Vs 2.556M ( + 0.024M / + 0.94% )
0.800D Vs 0.860D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.556M Vs 3.292M ( - 0.736M / 77.64% )
0.860D Vs 1.203D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 10th by viewership.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Wow. They went down on the go-home show to the Rumble from the previous week.


----------



## Demolition119

well, rating actually went down a little.


----------



## Demolition119

Showstopper said:


> Wow. They went down on the go-home show to the Rumble from the previous week.


I thought they would get at least somewhat of a bump from that massive Raw 25 rating. Disappointing sums this rating right up.


----------



## 751161

Showstopper said:


> Wow. They went down on the go-home show to the Rumble from the previous week.


Wow, that's bad. The go home show usually gets a little more hype than usual. It just shows how bad RAW 25 was to me, people didn't care enough to tune in to SD after. So nobody that may have returned stayed.

They really screwed their one chance to get people hyped for the Rumble IMO.

This may just be one of the most underwhelming builds I've seen to a Rumble in a long long time.


----------



## Demolition119

The Fourth Wall said:


> Wow, that's bad. The go home show usually gets a little more hype than usual. It just shows how bad RAW 25 was to me, people didn't care enough to tune in to SD after. So nobody that may have returned stayed.
> 
> They really screwed their one chance to get people hyped for the Rumble IMO.
> 
> This may just be one of the most underwhelming builds I've seen to a Rumble in a long long time.


They sure can hype the hell out of that Women's Rumble match though!


----------



## chronoxiong

There were two NBA games on TNT that night which is unusual for a Tuesday. I wonder if that played a part into the lower ratings.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Maybe RAW sucked so bad that the viewers couldn't take another second of WWE. :trolldog


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Fourth Wall said:


> Wow, that's bad. The go home show usually gets a little more hype than usual. It just shows how bad RAW 25 was to me, people didn't care enough to tune in to SD after. So nobody that may have returned stayed.
> 
> They really screwed their one chance to get people hyped for the Rumble IMO.
> 
> This may just be one of the most underwhelming builds I've seen to a Rumble in a long long time.


It's not just that, though. AJ isn't a draw, either.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Showstopper said:


> It's not just that, though. AJ isn't a draw, either.


Not any more.


----------



## Mra22

Showstopper said:


> It's not just that, though. AJ isn't a draw, either.


AJ isn’t interesting anymore especially with this stupid kami crap


----------



## 751161

Showstopper said:


> It's not just that, though. AJ isn't a draw, either.


His reign has been underwhelming. When he first beat Jinder for it & was about to face Brock, I was totally invested in him. Then after that they had him face Jinder in a rematch (which nobody wanted) & now we've got some storyline where Shane is constantly making himself the forefront of it.

There's just no reason to care about his reign right now. I still think he's the best SD guy to go in to WrestleMania with the Title, but he needs a good opponent & feud, without Shane involved.


----------



## EdgeheadStingerfan

Anyone else interested in Dillinger/AJ vs Kami?

I'm geeked about it! Finally Dillinger gets something else to do.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 1/30/18 Vs 1/23/18 ):
2.509M Vs 2.580M ( - 0.071M / - 2.75% )
0.760D Vs 0.800D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.509M Vs 3.395M ( - 0.886M / 73.90% )
0.760D Vs 1.140D

Note: SDL is 9th by demo & 21st by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 1/30/18 Vs 1/31/17 ):
2.509M Vs 2.817M ( - 0.308M / - 10.93% )
0.760D Vs 1.020D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.817M Vs 3.615M ( - 0.798M / 77.93% )
1.020D Vs 1.367D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 9th by viewership.*


----------



## MOBELS

Geez the ratings have dropped from the go home show. Thought the ratings would at least be a bit higher after Shin won the Rumble.


----------



## Mra22

Awful ratings for a show that deserved it. SD is just terrible right now


----------



## Laughable Chimp

Mra22 said:


> Awful ratings for a show that deserved it. SD is just terrible right now


This recent Smackdown seemed to be decent at least.


----------



## chronoxiong

Smackdown has the Royal Rumble winner and the ratings dropped instead of increasing. That is very bad. If only they didn't gut this show from star power. Such a shame.


----------



## Cavalry365

WTF?? :lol. Thought it would go up significantly since a Smackdown superstar won the Rumble and a significant portion of the fan base has Styles-Nakamura as some sort of a dream match.. Dreadful numbers in that regard I think....


----------



## The Figure 4

Cavalry365 said:


> WTF?? :lol. Thought it would go up significantly since a Smackdown superstar won the Rumble and a significant portion of the fan base has Styles-Nakamura as some sort of a dream match.. Dreadful numbers in that regard I think....


The second hour went up against the State of the Union address (which drew 30 million viewers).


----------



## RainmakerV2

WTF lol. 2.5 mil against the SOTU is a very solid number.


----------



## Cavalry365

The Figure 4 said:


> The second hour went up against the State of the Union address (which drew 30 million viewers).


People still listen to Trump? Damn the country indeed has no hope..


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 2/6/18 Vs 1/30/18 ):
2.505M Vs 2.509M ( - 0.004M / - 0.16% )
0.750D Vs 0.760D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.505M Vs 3.055M ( - 0.550M / 82.00% )
0.750D Vs 1.070D

Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 10th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 2/6/18 Vs 2/7/17 ):
2.505M Vs 2.627M ( - 0.122M / - 4.64% )
0.750D Vs 0.910D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.627M Vs 3.115M ( - 0.488M / 84.33% )
1.020D Vs 1.367D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 10th by viewership.*


----------



## Cavalry365

Another shit number on the Road to WM :lol. Smackdown on a free fall it seems..


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

SD's been consistently in the 2.5 mils for the last few weeks, has it not?

Anyway, at least it didn't have a major drop after the post-Rumble show last week. Not good it's down from last year, but definitely could've been worse.


----------



## Ace

Wow, that's not good at all.

Last week they were up against Trump's SoU address.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Cavalry365 said:


> Another shit number on the Road to WM :lol. Smackdown on a free fall it seems..


So is Raw.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

It only dropped a little over a tenth of a percent. Still the number isn't what they would hope for on the Road to Wrestlemania.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Vegeta said:


> Wow, that's not good at all.
> 
> Last week they were up against the the Trump's SoU address.


Oh. Well I guess this number just isn't good at all then (though I was thinking we'd see it in the 2.3-2.4 mil range).


----------



## Mra22

Another terrible rating. Personally I think I’m done watching SD for a while it’s been atrocious. Not sure how much I’ll tune in to RAW either.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 2/13/18 Vs 2/6/18 ):
2.449M Vs 2.505M ( - 0.056M / - 2.24% )
0.760D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.449M Vs 3.105M ( - 0.656M / 78.87% )
0.760D Vs 1.030D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 2/13/18 Vs 2/14/17 ):
2.449M Vs 2.626M ( - 0.177M / - 6.74% )
0.760D Vs 0.870D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.626M Vs 3.087M ( - 0.461M / 85.07% )
0.870D Vs 1.107D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 8th by viewership.*


----------



## Cavalry365

Another garbage rating. Smackdown? More like smacked down by the ratings.. :lol Hasn't the rating fallen for SD for like 4-5 weeks straight now?.. jesus these are Jinder Mahal-esque shit numbers.


----------



## Ibracadabra

I really want to know how being the highest rated show on Cable for the night is a garbage rating.



If that's garbage what do you leave for the 48 other programs on that list that it beat?


----------



## Arsenal79

Cavalry365 said:


> Another garbage rating. Smackdown? More like smacked down by the ratings.. :lol Hasn't the rating fallen for SD for like 4-5 weeks straight now?.. jesus these are Jinder Mahal-esque shit numbers.


Focusing on all these vanilla midgets, skinny fats, fatasses, and charisma vacuums is sending SmackDown into the grave.

They need to put the title back on Jinder Mahal, THE MODERN DAY MAHARAJA.... immediately! He was doing FAR BETTER than these TRASH numbers, and without the benefit of being on the road to WrestleMania when he was champ.

Save us Maharaja... you're our only hope!!!


----------



## Y.2.J

Ibracadabra said:


> I really want to know how being the highest rated show on Cable for the night is a garbage rating.
> 
> 
> 
> If that's garbage what do you leave for the 48 other programs on that list that it beat?


Pretty laughable right.

Its just like the RAW ratings thread. Both some of the highest viewed/rated shows on cable but apparently its all shit and garbage ratings.

Its going to be funny when USA or another network gives them more money on their next TV deal. Some just don't understand the dynamics of modern cable television.


----------



## Mra22

Arsenal79 said:


> Focusing on all these vanilla midgets, skinny fats, fatasses, and charisma vacuums is sending SmackDown into the grave.
> 
> They need to put the title back on Jinder Mahal, THE MODERN DAY MAHARAJA.... immediately! He was doing FAR BETTER than these TRASH numbers, and without the benefit of being on the road to WrestleMania when he was champ.
> 
> Save us Maharaja... you're our only hope!!!


Please stop that dude is garbage please go away


----------



## Thenash

Low Attendance At This Week’s SmackDown Live Show


----------



## Ace

I hope the ratings and attendance keep dropping, feels like they've been all filler mode for almost a year.


----------



## anirioc

*Two Shocking Photos of Low Attendance for This Week's SmackDown Live.*

"Two photos have surfaced on Twitter which shows a rather low live attendance during this week's edition of WWE SmackDown Live. One of the pictures confirms that this was indeed the attendance as the show was on the air, as WWE Champion A.J. Styles can be seen cutting a promo in the ring:

https://mobile.twitter.com/thewrestledaily/status/966319821343395842/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wrestlingnewssource.com%2Fnews%2F50792%2FTwo-Shocking-Photos-of-Low-Attendance-for-This-Weeks%2F


----------



## 751161

*Re: Two Shocking Photos of Low Attendance for This Week's SmackDown Live.*

"shocking"

SD really isn't that good, not surprised people aren't going. Nobody on the roster feels like a star.


----------



## MC

*Re: Two Shocking Photos of Low Attendance for This Week's SmackDown Live.*


----------



## anirioc

The Fourth Wall said:


> "shocking"
> 
> SD really isn't that good, not surprised people aren't going. Nobody on the roster feels like a star.


Well its shocking IMO considering half of the arena was completely empty.


----------



## Rick Sanchez

*Re: Two Shocking Photos of Low Attendance for This Week's SmackDown Live.*

I haven't watched a single clip of SmackDown in almost a year. There's really no reason to.


----------



## Mango13

*Re: Two Shocking Photos of Low Attendance for This Week's SmackDown Live.*

Here is the image since OP's link doesn't work











Honestly it doesn't surprise me, SDL is fucking awful why would anyone pay $ to go see it live lol


----------



## Achilles

*Re: Two Shocking Photos of Low Attendance for This Week's SmackDown Live.*

AJ must miss the massive TNA crowds.


----------



## anirioc

Mango13 said:


> Here is the image since OP's link doesn't work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly it doesn't surprise me, SDL is fucking awful why would anyone pay $ to go see it live lol


Thanks for the image.


----------



## Kratosx23

*Re: Two Shocking Photos of Low Attendance for This Week's SmackDown Live.*

That looks worse than an Impact taping. 

Come on Vince, keep Asuka on Raw. Don't do this.


----------



## Chrome

I'm sure Styles will get all the blame for this. :francis


----------



## Ace

Chrome said:


> I'm sure Styles will get all the blame for this. :francis


 Probably, even though he isn't the focal point of the show.

I can't even blame any of the wrestlers for this, they're all irrelevant, that's not down to them but creative who don't even bother and when they do, they end up hurting them.


----------



## 751161

Chrome said:


> I'm sure Styles will get all the blame for this. :francis


His reign has just been booked so terribly. Much like everything on SD. There's just no reason for people to tune in, unless you are watching out of habit (like me). :aryep


----------



## Chrome

The Fourth Wall said:


> His reign has just been booked so terribly. Much like everything on SD. There's just no reason for people to tune in, unless you are watching out of habit (like me). :aryep


You should develop a habit of not watching, like me. :aryep


----------



## 751161

Chrome said:


> You should develop a habit of not watching, like me. :aryep


I did for a week, now I'm back to my old tricks again. I blame Rollins great performance on Monday, ended up staying up for so long because the Gauntlet was long as fuck. :lol


----------



## Ace

*Re: Two Shocking Photos of Low Attendance for This Week's SmackDown Live.*



The Fourth Wall said:


> "shocking"
> 
> SD really isn't that good, not surprised people aren't going. Nobody on the roster feels like a star.


 This is the same company that killed John fucking Cena and has already killed their new FOTC.


----------



## Brov

*The Blue Brand is Suffering big time in terms of viewers and attendance; Naka and AJ not drawing well!*

*- As noted, WWE recently announced that Raw and SmackDown Live will no longer have exclusive pay-per-views following WrestleMania, and Backlash is being promoted as the first non-Big Four event that will commence these changes. WWE also decided to drop two pay-per-views off the line-up, after already reducing the number of events from last year.

Over the past few months, SmackDown Live experienced several times where the ratings took a major hit. For instance, the October 31 episode of SmackDown Live had a staggering 21% drop from the previous week, going from 2.699 million viewers to 2.119. The go-home show dropped from the previous week, garnering 2.580 million viewers, and it dropped even further for the post-Royal Rumble show.

A picture was posted that showed the crowd attendance of SmackDown Live. In addition to one side of the arena being nearly empty, the pic also showed a large section that was tarped off.


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/966319821343395842


















The negative trend continues, as last week's episode of SmackDown Live drew 2,449,000 viewers, which was down 56K from the previous week which drew 2,505,000.

The top matches for the Fastlane event on March 11 in Columbus, Ohio is a five-way match for the WWE Championship pitting AJ Styles defending against Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn, Dolph Ziggler, and Baron Corbin. The winner of this match will face Royal Rumble winner Shinsuke Nakamura at WrestleMania. Shane McMahon also announced on SmackDown Live that United States Champion Bobby Roode will defend against Randy Orton.*


Your thoughts?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

*Re: The Blue Brand is Suffering big time in terms of viewers and attendance; Naka and AJ not drawing well!*

Welcome Back RLStern.


----------



## Venocide

Jesus fuck Stern... at least try to convince us you’re someone else.


----------



## Beckeysha

*Re: The Blue Brand is Suffering big time in terms of viewers and attendance; Naka and AJ not drawing well!*

Meh. Smackdown is always gonna be the B-show. Raw is Vince’s creation. Smackdown is a cheap catchphrase from The Rock.


----------



## Laughable Chimp

*Re: The Blue Brand is Suffering big time in terms of viewers and attendance; Naka and AJ not drawing well!*

The go home Smackdown show fell because RAW was so shite that everyone who went and watch it couldn't give two shits about watching Smackdown after.


----------



## CM Buck

*Re: The Blue Brand is Suffering big time in terms of viewers and attendance; Naka and AJ not drawing well!*

Daniel Bryan and shane McMahon are the reason for shitty attendence.


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit

*Re: The Blue Brand is Suffering big time in terms of viewers and attendance; Naka and AJ not drawing well!*

Well that didn't take long.


----------



## Brov

*Re: The Blue Brand is Suffering big time in terms of viewers and attendance; Naka and AJ not drawing well!*

huh? What? what the hell is stern?


----------



## Ace

*Re: The Blue Brand is Suffering big time in terms of viewers and attendance; Naka and AJ not drawing well!*



Brov said:


> huh? What? what the hell is stern?


 I don't get it with rejoiners. Maybe try not to draw attention to yourself immediately?

Btw OP did you ever get your willy fixed?



ARKphoenix said:


> Jesus fuck Stern... at least try to convince us you’re someone else.


 "Your thoughts" and the bold text gave it away, rather surprising how quickly he picked up adding tweets to posts as well. A new poster would struggle.

Better luck next time.


----------



## V-Trigger

*Re: The Blue Brand is Suffering big time in terms of viewers and attendance; Naka and AJ not drawing well!*

Oh you didn't know?.


----------



## karkar

*Lots of Empty Seats At This Week’s Smackdown Live*


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit

*Re: Lots of Empty Seats At This Week’s Smackdown Live*

It's a bad show.

:draper2


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

*Re: Lots of Empty Seats At This Week’s Smackdown Live*

This is kinda like beating a dead horse at this point.


----------



## JooJCeeC

*Re: Lots of Empty Seats At This Week’s Smackdown Live*

That's pretty alarming considering Wrestlemania's almost here and how SD is superior to RAW.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Lots of Empty Seats At This Week’s Smackdown Live*

Let's hope it gets worse, maybe that way that way they'd start treating the show and performers better.



JooJCeeC said:


> That's pretty alarming considering Wrestlemania's almost here and how SD is superior to RAW.


 Both shows suck, but Raw on occasion is decent.

SD is generally shit and nothing ever happens. All the stars end up on Raw, while SD gets the left overs who they don't want to push. That's why I want AJ to move to Raw, the show is finished now that the charade of the shows being equal is over.


----------



## InexorableJourney

*Re: Lots of Empty Seats At This Week’s Smackdown Live*

Usually WWE reports that Wrestlemania tickets sell out within hours, but their seem to be loads available, and they've been on sale since October last year.


----------



## Donnie

*Re: The Blue Brand is Suffering big time in terms of viewers and attendance; Naka and AJ not drawing well!*

Hi RL. Austin's a draw, and your ass is grass


----------



## Brov

*Re: Lots of Empty Seats At This Week’s Smackdown Live*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/2313209-blue-brand.html


----------



## Khali_Chop

*Re: Lots of Empty Seats At This Week’s Smackdown Live*

Smackdown has worst roster in history.
Smackdown needs starpower.
I miss the golden days of smackdown such as this:


----------



## BRITLAND

Smackdown Live needs Stone Cold Steve Austin. He's the only draw that will put asses in seats for Smackdown Live tapings and house shows.


----------



## Ace

*Re: The Blue Brand is Suffering big time in terms of viewers and attendance; Naka and AJ not drawing well!*


----------



## JooJCeeC

*Re: Lots of Empty Seats At This Week’s Smackdown Live*



Vegeta said:


> Let's hope it gets worse, maybe that way that way they'd start treating the show and performers better.
> 
> Both shows suck, but Raw on ocassion is decent.
> 
> SD is generally shit and nothing ever happens. All the stars end up on Raw, while SD gets the left overs who they don't want to push. That's why I want AJ to move to Raw, the show is finished now that the charade of the shows being equal is over.


I've always considered RAW to be an inferior show to SD talent wise & are draws (With the exception of Seth, Balor & Joe). SD has far superior talent in AJ, Owens, Roodes, Nakamura and hell even Randy Orton. Their booking isn't even terrible, not including the woman's roster and their mundane tag team matches every week. 

*They just needa turn KO face.*


----------



## Ace

*Re: Lots of Empty Seats At This Week’s Smackdown Live*

Man it's going to be depressing if AJ wastes another year on SD. He only has a couple years left...


----------



## Beckeysha

*Re: Lots of Empty Seats At This Week’s Smackdown Live*

We need more ...










Tag Team matches playa!


----------



## Rain

Vegeta said:


>


One week ago, I had surgery. The procedure I had done is called a cystoscopy. They were doing it to check for reasons why I'd have trouble urinating. Well, halfway down into my penis, between the tip of my penis and my bladder entrance (literally in the middle), they found a urethral stricture and they had to fix it right then and there (using a laser and a tool built into the cystoscope that clips things).

My surgeon did a lot of tugging and pulling to make sure there was nothing blocking my urethra path. After surgery, I woke up with a catheter and not even 15 minutes later, they yanked the sucker out when the anesthetic wore off. It hurt like a bitch.

Anyways, onto the point. I've been bleeding from my dick for a week now, which is normal, and I've been peeing blood and peeing blue from the medication. I haven't had sex in a bit over a week and I can't fap, because it'll hurt like a bitch because my penis is sore as fuck and blood will be everywhere.

WHAT DO I DO


----------



## RainmakerV2

InexorableJourney said:


> Usually WWE reports that Wrestlemania tickets sell out within hours, but their seem to be loads available, and they've been on sale since October last year.


Pft. WM hasn't legit sold out in a longgggg time.


----------



## El Ingobernable

*WON :*



> Smackdown drew 6,300 fans. It was the second night in a row in Phoenix.
> Raw drew 8,300 fans. Running two straight nights is difficult and a lot of
> tickets were for two-for-ones where you could get Raw and Smackdown for the normal
> price of one show.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 2/20/18 Vs 2/13/18 ):
2.613M Vs 2.449M ( + 0.164M / + 6.70% )
0.800D Vs 0.760D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.613M Vs 3.283M ( - 0.670M / 79.59% )
0.800D Vs 1.143D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 4th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 2/20/18 Vs 2/21/17 ):
2.613M Vs 2.792M ( - 0.179M / - 6.41% )
0.800D Vs 0.950D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.792M Vs 3.105M ( - 0.313M / 89.92% )
0.950D Vs 1.157D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

That's got to be down to the big bump Raw had.



El Ingobernable said:


> *WON :*


 These cost cutting measures are going to fuck SD.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Corbin is money.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 2/27/18 Vs 2/20/18 ):
2.692M Vs 2.613M ( + 0.079M / + 3.02% )
0.860D Vs 0.800D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.692M Vs 3.180M ( - 0.488M / 84.65% )
0.860D Vs 1.067D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 2/27/18 Vs 2/28/17 ):
2.692M Vs 2.556M ( + 0.136M / + 5.32% )
0.860D Vs 0.860D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.556M Vs 3.093M ( - 0.537M / 82.64% )
0.860D Vs 1.080D

Note: SDL this week last year was 7th by demo & 16th by viewership.*


----------



## RainmakerV2

No one draws.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

SDL is up, ergo Cena beating AJ is best for business. :trolldog


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 3/6/18 Vs 2/27/18 ):
2.590M Vs 2.692M ( - 0.102M / - 3.79% )
0.750D Vs 0.860D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.590M Vs 3.099M ( - 0.509M / 83.58% )
0.750D Vs 1.093D

Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 4th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 3/6/18 Vs 3/7/17 ):
2.590M Vs 2.738M ( - 0.148M / - 5.41% )
0.750D Vs 0.890D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.738M Vs 3.216M ( - 0.478M / 85.14% )
0.890D Vs 1.123D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*


----------



## Mra22

This show is such a joke nothing but geeks


----------



## tducey

Good to see Smackdown still doing good in the ratings. For all the flak the WWE is getting, it remains high in the ratings.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 3/13/18 Vs 3/6/18 ):
2.771M Vs 2.590M ( + 0.181M / + 7.00% )
0.910D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.771M Vs 3.352M ( - 0.581M / 82.67% )
0.910D Vs 1.157D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 3/13/18 Vs 3/14/17 ):
2.771M Vs 2.628M ( + 0.143M / + 5.44% )
0.910D Vs 0.890D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.628M Vs 3.232M ( - 0.604M / 81.31% )
0.890D Vs 1.133D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Good number.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

> This week's WWE SmackDown, featuring fallout from Sunday's WWE Fastlane pay-per-view, drew 2.771 million viewers. This is up 7% from last week's 2.590 million viewers and the best blue brand viewership of 2018. This is also the best SmackDown viewership going back to the April 11th, 2017 episode. This week's show featured a WrestleMania 34 announcement from Shane McMahon and Asuka's blue brand debut advertised ahead of time.


Last night's show was the best viewership SD had since last April. 

They need to bolster SD's roster during the shakeup. It was a great sign to see a top star from RAW defect to the blue brand in Asuka. There's a few talents on SD that need a change of scenery over to RAW: Kevin Owens, Baron Corbin, AJ Styles, and Becky Lynch. All of them have feuded/wrestled with just about everyone. From RAW I'd like to see the following talents sent over to SD: Seth Rollins, Elias, Braun and Sasha Banks. Seems like a lot but they need to even out the shows.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Relatively strong viewership and demo for SDL.


----------



## Ace

Good number :bjpenn


----------



## Chrome

The Boy Wonder said:


> Last night's show was the best viewership SD had since last April.
> 
> They need to bolster SD's roster during the shakeup. It was a great sign to see a top star from RAW defect to the blue brand in Asuka. There's a few talents on SD that need a change of scenery over to RAW: Kevin Owens, Baron Corbin, AJ Styles, and Becky Lynch. All of them have feuded/wrestled with just about everyone. From RAW I'd like to see the following talents sent over to SD: Seth Rollins, Elias, Braun and Sasha Banks. Seems like a lot but they need to even out the shows.


Agree with this. They should also make Raw 2 hours and give SDL an overrun to make them more even, but that's not happening.


----------



## Y.2.J

The Boy Wonder said:


> Last night's show was the best viewership SD had since last April.
> 
> They need to bolster SD's roster during the shakeup. It was a great sign to see a top star from RAW defect to the blue brand in Asuka. There's a few talents on SD that need a change of scenery over to RAW: Kevin Owens, Baron Corbin, AJ Styles, and Becky Lynch. All of them have feuded/wrestled with just about everyone. From RAW I'd like to see the following talents sent over to SD: Seth Rollins, Elias, Braun and Sasha Banks. Seems like a lot but they need to even out the shows.


I'm hoping for a complete redraft but it'll probably only be a shake-up like you mentioned. Something definitely needs to happen though SD simply doesn't have enough compelling solo stars.

AJ will definitely move to RAW, he's done all he can for now SD.
I think KO should stick around at SD. There's still feuds left for him he's only been primarily involved in this Sami-Shane story.
Baron definitely could move over to RAW and so can Becky.
I could even see Randy Orton moving over. 

Huge fan of Seth and don't want to see him lose momentum if SD doesn't improve but I think it'll end up being Seth, one of Joe or Balor, Elias and Sasha moving to SD.


----------



## JTB33b

AJ needs to remain on Smackdown because Smackdown live is THE HOUSE THAT AJ STYLES BUILT. Plus he hasn't feuded with Orton yet. AJ needs to retain the title at WM and then go into a summer feud with Orton.


----------



## BehindYou

Is this where we talk about youtube views too?

I barely watch SD Live now but keep up with the (much better then RAW's) tag division on youtube.




 
How did this get *2m views*?? The pre-match promo has double the views of the world title feud promo too...



On another note, Big E is 32 and still may have 10 years in the business but will they ever pull the trigger on this guy? 

I mean the only thing that WWE want in a main eventer player that he doesn't have can be solved with 3 inch lifts...


----------



## fanindallas

Any tips on getting cheap SD tickets? They are in Dallas this week, and there are a lot of unsold lower level seats. Does WWE just let those go empty? Whole rows on the hard camera side. StubHub is more expensive right now. Will check back on SH tomorrow, but wondering if WWE does any giveaways or anything.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 3/20/18 Vs 3/13/18 ):
2.888M Vs 2.771M ( + 0.117M / + 4.22% )
0.990D Vs 0.910D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.888M Vs 3.327M ( - 0.439M / 86.81% )
0.990D Vs 1.157D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 3/20/18 Vs 3/21/17 ):
2.888M Vs 2.647M ( + 0.241M / + 9.11% )
0.990D Vs 0.870D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.647M Vs 3.049M ( - 0.402M / 86.82% )
0.870D Vs 1.097D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

So much for beating Raw..

I actually thought the show would do 3-3.1m.


----------



## AlternateDemise

2.8 million viewers is still a nice number. Anytime you can attract more viewers than the previous year, that is a great sign. Lets see if they can crack 3 million next week.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Increased the viewership in both the total and demo numbers, About 87% RAW retention. This show will always be lower rated than RAW.


----------



## Ace

I CAME said:


> Increased the viewership in both the total and demo numbers, About 87% RAW retention*. This show will always be lower rated than RAW.*


 Yeah, that looks like the case. I expected it to be a lot higher with the hype and bought into the talk of it doing a huge number, the truth is it's going to take a lot more to get it close/higher than Raw. Even then, it will be at best in the same ballpark and if ahead, it'll only be slightly.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Vegeta said:


> So much for beating Raw..
> 
> I actually thought the show would do 3-3.1m.


The number is still good. 3 Million viewers could be a possibility after the Superstar Shakeup, especially if Seth comes over. 

Props to DB for bringing in those viewers :bryan


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Vegeta said:


> Yeah, that looks like the case. I expected it to be a lot higher with the hype and bought into the talk of it doing a huge number, the truth is it's going to take a lot more to get it close/higher than Raw. Even then, it will be at best in the same ballpark and if ahead, it'll only be slightly.


My theory on SDL's ratings when compared to RAW remains unchanged. I think it suffers from being the de facto Hour 4 and 5 of RAW. Plus RAW will always have more cachet with the viewing audience. It is WWE's signature show after all.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Didn't beat Raw, but still a really good number for SD. Better than what SD usually gets.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/976564392526462976


----------



## 751161

THE DRAW










Better number than what SD usually gets, and those opening & closing segments were absolutely worth staying up for. :trips8

I didn't expect it to beat RAW tbh. I'm interested to see the ratings SD could get for it's 1000th episode if they really go all in and try to make the brand mean something again.


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T

Vegeta said:


> So much for beating Raw..
> 
> I actually thought the show would do 3-3.1m.


Damn, I was hoping Bryan would pull about 3.3M. A 4% ratings bump won't be enough to get Vince to take him seriously. I wonder what he would've drew had he been on Raw instead of SDL...


----------



## RubberbandGoat

The third highest since the shakeup? So one guy is as good as the overall shakeup? Guess hes a big deal after all


----------



## Ace

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Damn, I was hoping Bryan would pull about 3.3M. A 4% ratings bump won't be enough to get Vince to take him seriously. I wonder what he would've drew had he been on Raw instead of SDL...


 It's still a very good bump, but I bought into it doing extremely well.

I didn't follow ratings back then closely and took peoples posts on face value.

Maybe it was because of short notice? The following weeks might be bigger and closer to 3-3.1m, but you can't really attribute the go home number to one person.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Won’t be enough to take him seriously? Lol by himself he drew the third highest rating they’ve had in a year. He’s a big deal


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T

RubberbandGoat said:


> Won’t be enough to take him seriously? Lol by himself he drew the third highest rating they’ve had in a year. He’s a big deal


Yea, I'm talking about from Vince's perspective. He's not going to think "Bryan drew 2.8M people, let's push him to the moon".


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Are you guys insane? This is great news! He did really well. Gained, that’s great!! Just wait til you see the numbers moving forward especially for his first televised match


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Yea, I'm talking about from Vince's perspective. He's not going to think "Bryan drew 2.8M people, let's push him to the moon".


It's impressive nonetheless. If anything Vince may feel they can rely on Bryan more going forward. Meaning someone like AJ could be sent to RAW.


----------



## MC

I never thought it was going to beat Raw. Did people actually think that? 


Still a Bryan increase, even if it wasn't a big one. :yes


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Why are you all saying this is a shitty rating? I don’t get it


----------



## Ace

The Boy Wonder said:


> It's impressive nonetheless. If anything Vince may feel they can rely on Bryan more going forward. Meaning someone like AJ could be sent to RAW.


 I'm torn about whether I want AJ to move or not. Bryan coming back has strengthened the roster and AJ can finally get away from the shitty top babyface shtick they've given him. But then there's wanting him to succeed on the flagship and become the top champion. The longer TV matches is also appealing. I think AJ needs the change of scenary as well.

AJ for Seth
Orton for Braun
Usos for The Bar
Charlotte for Nia/Sasha

Bryan can be the top babyface, Seth/Braun top heel and Nakamura a 1b to Bryan.




MC 16 said:


> I never thought it was going to beat Raw. Did people actually think that?
> 
> 
> Still a Bryan increase, even if it wasn't a big one. :yes


 You'd be surprised by the number of people who said it was going to beat Raw. I thought they were serious, as I have little idea of the ratings that the likes of Cena, Punk and Bryan produced back in the day.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

https://www.pwtorch.com/site/2018/0...ce-april-11-2017-key-metrics-and-perspective/


----------



## Mongstyle

I think this is an instance of bias coming into play. This is a solid number on account of Smackdown ratings not being particularly great or anything, but it's not an impressive increase. Rock's unadvertised return in 2011 resulted in around a million viewership increase for his segment as word spread on social media. Brock Lesnar's return in 2012 was around a 500k viewership increase. Batista's return in 2014 resulted in a million viewership increase. Now there's obviously been a decline overall viewership since those years, but even then Goldberg generated an increase of around 500k viewers in 2016.

People often say how huge Bryan is, but his return after 2 years in retirement amounted to a 100k bump. That's it. Social media today is bigger than ever. This isn't a case of no one knowing. Everyone knew. It was all over Twitter trends, and spreading. It just shows for how over Bryan is, and he is incredibly over, he's not really much of a draw. Even WM30 which was built entirely around his story did the worst international buys Mania had ever done. Domestic numbers were obviously impossible to decipher with the Network launching.

This should be a clear sign to WWE that if they want viewership numbers going up, they need to create a compelling product first and foremost.


----------



## AlternateDemise

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Yea, I'm talking about from Vince's perspective. He's not going to think "Bryan drew 2.8M people, let's push him to the moon".


At this point Vince could care less about whether or not Bryan's bringing in numbers. He knows WWE needs all the stars it can and Bryan is the only (soon to be) full time performer they have who is main stream. He will absolutely be pushed to the moon on Smackdown, there's no question about it.



Mongstyle said:


> I think this is an instance of bias coming into play. This is a solid number on account of Smackdown ratings not being particularly great or anything, but it's not an impressive increase. Rock's unadvertised return in 2011 resulted in around a million viewership increase for his segment as word spread on social media.


A lot of people knew The Rock was going to return. It was being heavily rumored at that point and fans were even chanting his name through out the night. 



Mongstyle said:


> Brock Lesnar's return in 2012 was around a 500k viewership increase.


Can't really count this...Lesnar's return happened on the night after Wrestlemania. And at that Wrestlemania, The Rock had beaten John Cena. There was most certainly going to be a lot of attention being put on what was going to happen the next night. I don't know if you can necessarily attribute that increase to Lesnar. 



Mongstyle said:


> Batista's return in 2014 resulted in a million viewership increase. Now there's obviously been a decline overall viewership since those years, but even then Goldberg generated an increase of around 500k viewers in 2016.


All of these were either hyped up big time and/or people already knew about it ahead of time.

Bryan being cleared to return in the ring happened literally the day of Smackdown. Him being able to bring in this many viewers that many viewers is a good sign that he's still a capable draw. 



Mongstyle said:


> People often say how huge Bryan is, but his return after 2 years in retirement amounted to a 100k bump. That's it. Social media today is bigger than ever. This isn't a case of no one knowing. Everyone knew. It was all over Twitter trends, and spreading.


That doesn't mean anything at all. We had members in the chatbox that night who joined while Smackdown was happening who didn't even know Bryan had been cleared. And those are people who spend their free time on Wrestling forums. Saying "everyone knew" is a gross exaggeration and something you can't prove. I agree that it was all over the internet, but there people who can spend their Tuesdays away from the internet due to things like work, school and what not. The idea of them not even knowing about it is definitely plausible. 



Mongstyle said:


> It just shows for how over Bryan is, and he is incredibly over, he's not really much of a draw. Even WM30 which was built entirely around his story did the worst international buys Mania had ever done. Domestic numbers were obviously impossible to decipher with the Network launching.


Raw still drew higher ratings both before and after Wrestlemania in comparison to the previous year, which had Cena and The Rock as the main eventers. 



Mongstyle said:


> This should be a clear sign to WWE that if they want viewership numbers going up, they need to create a compelling product first and foremost.


You're basing this idea that Bryan isn't really this big of a draw on one episode of Smackdown, where the news of him being cleared to perform came out the day of. We need to wait and see what happens going forward and whether or not he's able to maintain viewers. None of us are calling Bryan this massive draw. But this is clear evidence that he's still capable of being a legitimate difference maker when it comes to bringing in viewers. You can't say that about any full time performer in WWE outside of Cena.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Bryan wasn't really missed in the real sense.

Daniel Bryan's on Smackdown Live nearly every week (albeit not wrestling), so his 'absence' wasn't as profound as other returnees.


----------



## AlternateDemise

InexorableJourney said:


> Bryan wasn't really missed in the real sense.
> 
> Daniel Bryan's on Smackdown Live nearly every week (albeit not wrestling), so his 'absence' wasn't as profound as other returnees.


His abilities as an in-ring performer are without question his greatest asset. It's like the Undertaker if you took away his gimmick.


----------



## validreasoning

Mongstyle said:


> I think this is an instance of bias coming into play. This is a solid number on account of Smackdown ratings not being particularly great or anything, but it's not an impressive increase. Rock's unadvertised return in 2011 resulted in around a million viewership increase for his segment as word spread on social media. Brock Lesnar's return in 2012 was around a 500k viewership increase. Batista's return in 2014 resulted in a million viewership increase. Now there's obviously been a decline overall viewership since those years, but even then Goldberg generated an increase of around 500k viewers in 2016.


Bryan was on TV every week. The others you mentioned returned after years away and Batista/Goldberg were advertised for weeks in advance, Lesnar returned night after mania 28 so crediting him for what is always most watched raw of the year regardless would be incorrect. 

The week before rock returned raw did 4.92 million viewers on February 7th 2011. Raw did 4.76 million the night rock returned on February 14th so that proves without weeks of promotion a surprise return won't get people watching.

The closest comparison you can make is Kurt angle announcing his return at tlc last year or Mick Foley announcing his return in 2012 only for it to be pulled.



> People often say how huge Bryan is, but his return after 2 years in retirement amounted to a 100k bump. That's it. Social media today is bigger than ever. This isn't a case of no one knowing. Everyone knew. It was all over Twitter trends, and spreading. It just shows for how over Bryan is, and he is incredibly over, he's not really much of a draw.


Last weeks SD was most watched in nearly a year with the fallout out of fast lane. SD did 2.59 million viewers the week before fastlane and would probably have done similar without the Bryan announcement so in reality that bump is closer to 300,000.



> Even WM30 which was built entirely around his story did the worst international buys Mania had ever done. Domestic numbers were obviously impossible to decipher with the Network launching.
> 
> This should be a clear sign to WWE that if they want viewership numbers going up, they need to create a compelling product first and foremost.


I have had the network since day one and I don't live in the states and I know for a fact more than me were easily able to access it long before it dropped internationally. The fact that wrestlemania 30 drew 682,000 buys on traditional ppv with the network available is incredible. That's more than bought mania 19 which had rock, Austin, Hogan and Vince in top matches and only 200,000 buys less than mania 26 with shawns retirement and Bret's long awaited return and neither of those shows were available online for $10.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I bet Vince is happy regardless. Just wait until Bryan is beating Roman in merch sales. He will be number one for a bit I bet. Welcome back Bryan


----------



## Shenroe

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Yea, I'm talking about from Vince's perspective. He's not going to think "Bryan drew 2.8M people, let's push him to the moon".


Lol I hope you trolling. Vince knows exactly what Bryan is capable in terms of ratings, he was doing great numbers during his RTWM. Even bumped SD ratings a few times over the years when advertised.


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

To summarize the fine print of those ratings:

Ages below 49 were UP
Male viewers were UP
YOUNG male viewers were UP
Female viewership was unchanged

So: Daniel Bryan draws exactly the demographics WWE lacks and lost.


----------



## The_Workout_Buddy

Is not gonna change a thing.

RAW and SDL ratings are a lost cause because it's 2018, except for legit sports/events there no real need to watch a show in it's live trasmission.

Honestly is more important be trending on Twitter than receive an increase of 100,000 , 200,000 viewers. People will watch the segments they cared on YT anyway.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 3/27/18 Vs 3/20/18 ):
2.576M Vs 2.888M ( - 0.312M / - 10.80% )
0.780D Vs 0.990D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.576M Vs 3.367M ( - 0.791M / 76.51% )
0.780D Vs 1.170D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 4th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 3/27/18 Vs 3/28/17 ):
2.576M Vs 2.698M ( - 0.122M / - 4.52% )
0.780D Vs 0.860D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.698M Vs 3.292M ( - 0.594M / 81.96% )
0.860D Vs 1.177D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

That's a bad number.

You can't single any of the wrestlers out for this, it's been a collective failure all round with nothing on the show really being built up well aside from the tag match.

Just hope AJ is off SD after WM.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Not good. People were interested in Bryan’s return but then tuned out. Yikes


----------



## Ace

RubberbandGoat said:


> Not good. People were interested in Bryan’s return but then tuned out. Yikes


 Can you blame them? The stories are either god awful, slow or non existent.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

At least it’s first in demo three weeks in a row lol


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Roseanne kicking the WWE's collective ass.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Miss the quarter hours


----------



## aj styles fan

https://www.f4wonline.com/wwe-news/wwe-smackdown-ratings-down-against-roseanne-premiere-254531

Not only Smackdown's viewership were down, but all networks. So the number in reality is not so negative.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Roseanne killed everyone


----------



## Saintpat

Rosanne > DB


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Another thing is that Bryan has been a part of SDL for a while now. Aside from his big return announcement, there's nothing unusual about him appearing on Smackdown.


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

Ah yes, the popular "other shows are down, too, so we have to appreciate the number" argument.
Never gets old.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I’m sure they appreciate being number one every week which they have been

Bryan got almost 2,000,000 views for his promo just last night. More than his return promo. He’s red hot


----------



## Y.2.J

SD is ass right now. Only DB (and indirectly KO & Sami) and AJ are interesting at the moment.
Being almost 5% down from last year would piss me off as an executive. Sure not a huge loss but I'd like to see gains year over year. SD is just piss poor at the moment and many people don't care enough to watch it live or in its entirety.

SD needs that shake-up asap.


----------



## AlternateDemise

Raw-Is-Botchamania said:


> Ah yes, the popular "other shows are down, too, so we have to appreciate the number" argument.
> Never gets old.


So you're saying that isn't a valid argument?


----------



## RubberbandGoat

It was still number one, so what’s the problem? All advertisers care about is the Demo! They won the night


----------



## Nashfan09

RubberbandGoat said:


> I’m sure they appreciate being number one every week which they have been
> 
> Bryan got almost 2,000,000 views for his promo just last night. More than his return promo. He’s red hot


Lesnar and Reigns's angle last week did 9 million views. Their angle this week has done 4 million views so far.

If Bryan is red hot, what does that make Lesnar and Reigns?


----------



## RubberbandGoat

It’s abeatdoen segment compared to a promo. If it had been a promo, it wouldn’t have done 4,000,000. Come on talk sense. They had two long beatdown segments two weeks in a row.


----------



## Nashfan09

RubberbandGoat said:


> It’s abeatdoen segment compared to a promo. If it had been a promo, it wouldn’t have done 4,000,000. Come on talk sense. They had two long beatdown segments two weeks in a row.


What?

Last week, the segment where Owens and Zayn beatdown Bryan drew 3 million views on Youtube. The segment where Lesnar beatdown Reigns the day before drew 9.4 million views.


----------



## aj styles fan

Nashfan09 said:


> What?
> 
> Last week, the segment where Owens and Zayn beatdown Bryan drew 3 million views on Youtube. The segment where Lesnar beatdown Reigns the day before drew 9.4 million views.


It's clear that Lesnar is a bigger than Owens, Zayn and Bryan.
The fact that SD didn't draw well this week doesn't mean that Bryan is not a draw. It's not a draw on the level of Cena and Lesnar, but for sure is the bigger name on SD now. 
However, only the segments of Lesnar/Reigns and Ronda Rousey got more viewers. He did better numbers than Cena on youtube.
This means that people are interested in Daniel Bryan.
Reading the WON, today, Meltzer said that after the announcement of his return increased the selling of tickets:
" After the announcement last week of the return of Daniel Bryan, tickets for 
Mania were very strong when it came to late sales so his return is money. At 
press time there were about 700 tickets left, almost all on the floor, with the 
cheapest price being $337.
Secondary market prices at press time were $58 for WrestleMania (meaning even though it is close to sold out, so many seats were purchased by ticket brokers and the secondary market demand has been disappointing although it did pick up from last week when it was looking a lot worse before the Bryan announcement),$49 for Raw and $30 for Smackdown."


----------



## chronoxiong

Roseanne came back and kicked everyone's ass on Tuesday night. :damn 

Hope Smackdown can pick up some steam in the coming weeks especially with Bryan active again.


----------



## Nashfan09

aj styles fan said:


> However, only the segments of Lesnar/Reigns and Ronda Rousey got more viewers. He did better numbers than Cena on youtube.


Not this week.

Cena's match with Kane - 1.9 million views

Bryan's challenge for WM - 1.8 millions views


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I don’t take anything from a commenter called Nash fan seriously lol Nash hates small guys and you hate Bryan so can’t take you seriously. 1.8 million is great so stop it!


----------



## RubberbandGoat

And not as many people watch Smackdown so that says a lot to get that many. Raw gets more views. Always has, so what’s your point?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Smackdown may have a real tough time with the ratings juggernaut of Roseanne and NCIS against them. I wonder what is their ratings floor?


----------



## Nashfan09

RubberbandGoat said:


> I don’t take anything from a commenter called Nash fan seriously lol Nash hates small guys and you hate Bryan so can’t take you seriously. 1.8 million is great so stop it!


Where did I say that 1.8 million isn't great? I merely corrected the poster that Bryan was outdrawing Cena on Youtube. 

1.8 million is okay. Nothing more. Certainly not proof that Bryan is the 2nd coming of Dwayne Johnson.


----------



## aj styles fan

Nashfan09 said:


> Where did I say that 1.8 million isn't great? I merely corrected the poster that Bryan was outdrawing Cena on Youtube.
> 
> 1.8 million is okay. Nothing more. Certainly not proof that Bryan is the 2nd coming of Dwayne Johnson.


I was talking about the segment, not the match.
However I don't think that 150.000 is so much of a difference between Kane vs Cena and the segment of Bryan.
However, in my opinion, the right comparison should be with the other videos of Smackdown, and his viewers were so much in comparison with others.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 4/3/18 Vs 3/27/18 ):
2.467M Vs 2.576M ( - 0.109M / - 4.23% )
0.790D Vs 0.780D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.467M Vs 3.358M ( - 0.891M / 73.47% )
0.790D Vs 1.193D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 4th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 4/3/18 Vs 4/4/17 ):
2.467M Vs 2.885M ( - 0.418M / - 14.49% )
0.790D Vs 0.980D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.885M Vs 3.767M ( - 0.882M / 76.59% )
0.980D Vs 1.427D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*


----------



## JC00

Terrible.. 

At least with Raw you had it going up against the national title game which had 13m viewers. SD was going up against nothing.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

SmackDown sucks! Lol they need another shakeup fast


----------



## Ace

Not surprised, nothing big ever happens on SD.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

JC00 said:


> Terrible..
> 
> At least with Raw you had it going up against the national title game which had 13m viewers. SD was going up against nothing.


I think the number isn't good either. But it was up against Roseanne with 15.39m, NCIS with 12.23m, and The Vouce at 9.43m. Tuesday night is a murderer's row at 8:00pm.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Still number one in demo


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Expecting RAW to stomp a larger than usual mudhole into SDL's ratings.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I think SD gets 3 mil


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Sure taking awhile


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

RubberbandGoat said:


> Sure taking awhile


It should be out soon and I hope I'm wrong about its rating.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

It at least got higher than the last two weeks


----------



## chrispepper

It got a 2.10 rating apparently, highest since April 10 last year.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I hope SD did well. Good show last night.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I have a feeling it did well


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 4/10/18 Vs 4/3/18 ):
2.952M Vs 2.467M ( + 0.485M / + 19.66% )
0.980D Vs 0.790D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.952M Vs 3.921M ( - 0.969M / 75.29% )
0.980D Vs 1.463D

Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.










Viewership & demo ( 4/10/18 Vs 4/11/17 ):
2.952M Vs 3.105M ( - 0.153M / - 4.93% )
0.980D Vs 1.050D

SDL Vs RAW:
3.105M Vs 3.429M ( - 0.324M / 90.55% )
1.050D Vs 1.247D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 2nd by viewership.










SDL After Mania ( 4/10/18 Vs 4/4/17):

Viewership & demo ( 4/10/18 Vs 4/4/17 ):
2.952M Vs 2.885M ( + 0.067M / + 2.32% )
0.980D Vs 0.980D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.885M Vs 3.767M ( - 0.882M / 76.59% )
0.980D Vs 1.427D

Note: SDL this time last year was 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.

Note: SDL this week last year hosted the 2017 WWE Superstar Shake-up.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

2.952 million viewers.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

There you go. That’s high for a SD


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Strong demo and viewer number for them. Just a tad short of 3m but a 20% increase is huge.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I said 3 mil. I was close enough. Awesome! They’ll take that. Number one for a month straight


----------



## chronoxiong

Damn nearly 3 million viewers! That's impressive for sure!


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Bryan will be pushed even further now ? watch out Roman


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Ever since Bryan has come back he’s been doing great. His shirt was sold out on wwe shop for a week. I couldn’t buy one until yesterday. He helps sell out WM and have two huge ratings the last month, damn he’s red hot


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

This just further proves that no matter how good SDL, it cannot surpass RAW in the ratings because of wrestling fatigue and other factors. Still that was a very good numero for them.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

USA network is pleased. So either way they’re happy. It was a strong number


----------



## ShadowCounter

THE MAN said:


> This just further proves that no matter how good SDL, it cannot surpass RAW in the ratings because of wrestling fatigue and other factors. Still that was a very good numero for them.


I disagree. It would take a while for the ratings to really rise even with a Bryan/AJ caliber match main eventing each week because of the perception of it being the "B" show. Word of mouth takes time. Why would anyone watch RAW if Rollins was moved over to Smackdown? We've seen the Brock and Reigns ruins All show for 4 freaking years now.

Of course, a consistent product and Vince not raiding all of Smackdown's talent every year would be a great help as well.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Well this is a great start. The number will go up next week


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

ShadowCounter said:


> I disagree. It would take a while for the ratings to really rise even with a Bryan/AJ caliber match main eventing each week because of the perception of it being the "B" show. Word of mouth takes time. Why would anyone watch RAW if Rollins was moved over to Smackdown? We've seen the Brock and Reigns ruins All show for 4 freaking years now.
> 
> Of course, a consistent product and Vince not raiding all of Smackdown's talent every year would be a great help as well.


I just think being a defacto Hour 4 & 5 of RAW harms them. Plus overall they are in a tougher timeslot than RAW even when football is against it. I agree it would be nice if Vince treated them as if they were valued as more than the redheaded step child of WWE, To answer your query as why would anyone watch RAW without Rollins, there would be very little reason to watch RAW. Trade Jinder for Seth and keep everyone else the same and maybe Joe too, then I'd be content to exclusively watch SDL.


----------



## Mordecay

Iconic being a draw confirmed :grin2:


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Mordecay said:


> Iconic being a draw confirmed :grin2:



They did make my "ratings" rise.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Aside from SDL doing well, I was extremely pleased to see the Andre documentary do well for HBO. If you haven't seen it, you should. It's a great view.


----------



## Ibracadabra

Didn't even crack 3... 


Daniel Bryan clearly isn't bringing in the viewers.. watch Raw's ratings start to drop as soon goes to team red.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Shut up! It’s the second highest rating in two years. Come on now! You’re so dumb for saying that


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

RubberbandGoat said:


> Shut up! It’s the second highest rating in two years. Come on now! You’re so dumb for saying that


Din;t worry about it. The show was vastly better than RAW and all we should really care about is if the show truly entertained us. I understand that SDL had some crap shows in the 9+ months I didn't watch it. This was not one of those shows. It was quite good.


----------



## Wolfgang

I thought it was really odd that they had a Tag Titles contenders match and a US Titles match and had the former Champs win in both instances. Just seemed really lazy, just a way to fill some time while still doing what is basically just the former Champs entitled rematches. The Iconic Duos debut was really good. Even before Carmella cashed in, and even before they laid Charlotte out they had made an impact with their promo and their character work. Heel Shinsuke is off too a good start.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

SDL just quantum leaped in quality but they will still get drilled by RAW in the ratings. I suspect you could swap the entire roster and get the same result.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 4/17/18 Vs 4/10/18 ):
2.796M Vs 2.952M ( - 0.156M / - 5.28% )
0.980D Vs 0.980D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.796M Vs 3.622M ( - 0.826M / 77.20% )
0.980D Vs 1.333D*

*Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 4/17/18 Vs 4/18/17 ):
2.796M Vs 2.544M ( + 0.252M / + 9.91% )
0.980D Vs 0.810D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.544M Vs 3.346M ( - 0.802M / 76.03% )
0.810D Vs 1.190D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 6th by viewership.*










*Superstar Shake-up comparison ( 4/17/18 Vs 4/11/17):*

*Viewership & demo ( 4/17/18 Vs 4/11/17 ):
2.796M Vs 3.105M ( - 0.309M / - 9.95% )
0.980D Vs 1.050D

SDL Vs RAW:
3.105M Vs 3.429M ( - 0.324M / 90.55% )
1.050D Vs 1.247D

Note: SDL Superstar Shake-up last year was 1st by demo & 2nd by viewership.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

HOLY SHIT. SD got TROUNCED. 2.79 million. Down from last year's shake up that did 3.1 million.

:trips8


----------



## chronoxiong

How the hell did this year's Shake Up fail to outdraw last year's Shake Up? Last night's two NBA Playoff games weren't all that high profile.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Went down, SDL will never beat RAW. Swap the rosters and you'd get the same result. The name RAW is the draw. The killer time slot got even worse with the addition of the NBA Playoffs.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

chronoxiong said:


> How the hell did this year's Shake Up fail to outdraw last year's Shake Up? Last night's two NBA Playoff games weren't all that high profile.


Roseanne, NCIS, The Voice and the playoff game added up to 36m viewers. It's the toughest time slot of anything right now and wrestling will never be able to compete.


----------



## JDP2016

THE MAN said:


> Roseanne, NCIS, The Voice and the playoff game added up to 36m viewers. It's the toughest time slot of anything right now and wrestling will never be able to compete.


Also Lethal Weapon and Black-ish. :mark

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

For comparison's sake. I checked the competition of Aprill 11, 2017 vs. last night. NCIS was a repeat and the combined audience of ABC,NBC, CBS, and Fox was approximately *24m* viewers. Last night those four networks at 8:00pm combined for *36m* and that doesn't include the NBA game. Therefore SDL faced competition that was 150% greater than last years. In that light, getting 90% of last years viewership and 93.3% of the demo isn't that bad at all.

For reference:


----------



## LiableToPay

Disappointing ratings once again for SD..


----------



## Y.2.J

Not the best numbers. However, like others have shown...it was a crazy competitive night for TV ratings so all said and done...not bad.

SD is stacked right now...if they can hold that 2.6-2.8m range I think the WWE will be happy. Especially with RAW hitting some high numbers recently.


----------



## Makish16

Top 4 show last year 29m

Top 4 shows this year 36m + Roseanne 13m more

Smackdown only lost 350k should be seen as a huge win 

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 4/24/18 Vs 4/17/18 ):
2.549M Vs 2.796M ( - 0.247M / - 8.83% )
0.800D Vs 0.980D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.549M Vs 3.104M ( - 0.555M / 82.12% )
0.800D Vs 1.050D*

*Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 6th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 4/24/18 Vs 4/25/17 ):
2.549M Vs 2.493M ( + 0.056M / + 2.25% )
0.800D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.493M Vs 3.007M ( - 0.514M / 82.91% )
0.750D Vs 1.030D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

SDL struggling. New theme for this thread.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Raw lost 518,000 viewers from last weeks shake up. SD only lost 247,000. Not that bad!


----------



## BeckyLynchFan29

smackdown will never beat raw no matter how much talent is on the show cause noone wants to sit thru 2 straight nights of WWE 3 if you count the ppvs when they on sunday.


----------



## LiableToPay

Another disappointing rating for SD. Even after they got such a good deal in the draft :lol


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Cass drove people away. For all we know it started at a big number then boom! Went down


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The show deserved the rating they got because it sucked for the most part. The timeslot isn't helping either.


----------



## The XL 2

Figured Bryan would do something for the ratings.


----------



## chrispepper

That is a great number for smackdown and a very decent hold from the shakeup.


----------



## oldschoolfan

RubberbandGoat said:


> Cass drove people away. For all we know it started at a big number then boom! Went down


Or Daniel Bryan not the big draw many on here pretends like.


----------



## MC

oldschoolfan said:


> Or Daniel Bryan not the big draw many on here pretends like.


You mean the same Daniel Bryan that had 30 seconds of screen time this week? Poor week to try and judge Bryan's drawing power on.


----------



## reamstyles

Smackdowns number would be the same, its the raw numbers they need to address as lack of heels will be a problem..


----------



## Ace

LMFAO are people really complaining about these numbers?

This is what SD ususally does outside WM. It's actually decent considering they're now up against Roseanne which is doing huge numbers and the NBA.


----------



## oldschoolfan

MC 16 said:


> You mean the same Daniel Bryan that had 30 seconds of screen time this week? Poor week to try and judge Bryan's drawing power on.


Ratings have gone down the last two weeks he never been a big draw.


----------



## Mra22

I kind of wonder if a lot of people tuned out after Cass came out instead of Bryan


----------



## JTB33b

oldschoolfan said:


> Ratings have gone down the last two weeks he never been a big draw.


More like Smackdown has never been a big draw. It's the show that is not drawing. Switch rosters and Raw would be doing alot better and Smackdown will be the same as it is now.


----------



## fabi1982

Vegeta said:


> LMFAO are people really complaining about these numbers?
> 
> This is what SD ususally does outside WM. It's actually decent considering they're now up against Roseanne which is doing huge numbers and the NBA.


But to be fair, Roseanne wasn´t on yesterday, at least it is not downloadable anywhere, so I think it has a week pause


----------



## Makish16

JTB33b said:


> More like Smackdown has never been a big draw. It's the show that is not drawing. Switch rosters and Raw would be doing alot better and Smackdown will be the same as it is now.


Cena couldn't even pop ratings on smackdown 

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 5/1/18 Vs 4/24/18 ):
2.436M Vs 2.549M ( - 0.113M / - 4.43% )
0.770D Vs 0.800D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.436M Vs 3.066M ( - 0.630M / 79.45% )
0.770D Vs 1.080D*

*Note: SDL is 4th by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 5/1/18 Vs 5/2/17 ):
2.436M Vs 2.300M ( + 0.136M / + 5.91% )
0.770D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.300M Vs 2.871M ( - 0.571M / 80.11% )
0.750D Vs 1.007D

Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 4th by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

SDL's ratings?


----------



## Mra22

> The 5/1 edition of Smackdown Live brought in 2,436,000 overnight viewers, down from last week's post Superstar Shake-up 2,549,000 overnight viewers. (Credit: PWINSIDER)


Not a surprise that those ratings dropped. Only good thing was the AJ segment. It’s sad that they have all of this talent yet still find a way to screw things up. Good old Road Dogg....


----------



## Ace

NBA addlin SD.


----------



## Sincere

Vegeta said:


> NBA addlin SD.


Yep. NBA and NHL playoffs, and also expected to be down from the superstar shake-up, IMO. Plus they spent half of Backlash's build promoting GRR instead, so Backlash is an afterthought.

Roadkill still sucks ass, though.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Roseanne + NCIS + The Voice + Lethal Weapon > SDL addlin


----------



## aj styles fan

Neverthless viewership are up from last year's episode that made 2,300 million of viewers.


----------



## aj styles fan

However, next weeks will be the least watched episodes of the year, until July.

These are 2017 viewership:
July 18 - 2.55 million
July 11 - 2.47 million
July 4 - 2.32 million
June 27 - 2.60 million
June 20 - 2.6 million
June 13 - 2.072 million
June 6 - 2.349 million
May 30 - 2.35 million
May 23 - 2.33 million
May 16 - 2.175 million
May 9 - 2.348 million
May 2 - 2.3 million


----------



## chronoxiong

No Smackdown ratings this week? Must be bad then.


----------



## LiableToPay

Another disappointing rating for SD. Styles feels stale as champion tbh. They should put the title on Bryan ASAP.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 5/8/18 Vs 5/1/18 ):
2.293M Vs 2.436M ( - 0.143M / - 5.87% )
0.710D Vs 0.770D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.293M Vs 2.689M ( - 0.396M / 85.27% )
0.710D Vs 0.897D*

*Note: SDL is 4th by demo & 10th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 5/8/18 Vs 5/9/17 ):
2.293M Vs 2.348M ( - 0.055M / - 2.34% )
0.710D Vs 0.740D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.348M Vs 2.696M ( - 0.348M / 87.09% )
0.740D Vs 0.927D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 11th by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

Deserved addlin

The show wasn't bad but Backlash was awful and deserved that big drop.

Both shows are so stale with little reason to watch weekly. Personally, I'm on the verge of dropping both, I've already cut back significantly on Raw and probably will be doing the same for SD.


----------



## Ace

LiableToPay said:


> Another disappointing rating for SD. Styles feels stale as champion tbh. They should put the title on Bryan ASAP.


 Show headlined by Bryan with big stakes which was advertised in advance flopped hard. I don't think SD has been this low since the presidential debate/election night (not 100% sure on this, there could have been 1 or 2 in between). Bryan wouldn't do anything either without good writing and booking. 

It's mostly on writing and booking, no one other than Brock or Cena are stars who can impact numbers alone. That's not changing until the WWE change and begin to create stars again.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Nothing new. Coming of a horrid Backlash and a tepid RAW, I was expecting nothing less. It was actually the best of all three shows but they are forever tethered to RAW, so it does poorly whenever RAW does. 85% Raw retention is good except for the fact that RAW tanked this week.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Not good. Was hoping Bryan/Rusev would pull a better number (like 2.5ish), but I guess I should've accounted for the fact they've done fuck all with Rusev up until last night - and Bryan has been cooled off a bit since his return.

But knowing Vince, this'll probably give him a reason to bury both guys now. :vince


----------



## DB DA GAWD

WWE going up against the NBA playoffs.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The bad thing for SDL is that they are actually in a tougher timeslot than RAW right now. RAW only has football competition for 3 months a year. The Network tv schedule runs from September to May and Tuesday is a killer compared to Mondays. I am interested to see how low both shows can go come September.


----------



## bmtrocks

I mean the roster is the most stacked rosters in Smackdown Live history, yet week-to-week they keep pulling off shit-tier shows with a few highlights here-and-there. No surprises SDL isn't do good. I'm actually more impressed how much RAW has dropped in comparison. Now both shows are only a couple of thousand apart from each other in a gap that could easily change in the near future in Smackdown's favor.


----------



## Ace

bmtrocks said:


> I mean the roster is the most stacked rosters in Smackdown Live history, yet week-to-week they keep pulling off shit-tier shows with a few highlights here-and-there. No surprises SDL isn't do good. I'm actually more impressed how much RAW has dropped in comparison. Now both shows are only a couple of thousand apart from each other in a gap that could easily change in the near future in Smackdown's favor.


 Raw is never going to lose to SD consistently unless something drastic happens. I wouldn't class these roster changes as significant enough to swing the tide. ATM both shows are boring and not compelling enough to tune in weekly.


----------



## JTB33b

Smackdown was up against the NBA playoffs and NCIS's season finale which had a cliffhanger the week before and this episode was Abby's final show. I think it was Bull's season finale also which also ended on a cliffhanger the week before.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Both RAW and SDL will receive some ratings relief with the end of the playoffs and the network tv season. The passage of time is a double edged sword as it will be summer and a lot of people are doing summery things and staying out later than normal. September will be a very interesting for the WWE brand's ratings.


----------



## LiableToPay

WOW that's a dreadful rating. To think that SD had got the better of the draft BY FAR. :lol It needs some changes ASAP, especially in the main event scene.


----------



## The XL 2

Daniel Bryan isn't a draw and never was on this level. The ratings were up in 2014 because of Dave Batista.


----------



## Ace

Their answer to last weeks low ratings is do AJ-Nak in some random stip match.

Who gives a fuck? Fans are all over this retarded feud. Another match between these two isn't going to do shit.

I hope the ratings continue to drop, it serves them right for what they've done to AJ, Nakamura and the WWE title.

C'mon 2m....


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

It should get a little better once tv shows go on hiatus and more importantly when the NBA playoffs end. RAW is probably going to draw like crap this week so look for SDL to be about 80% of crap.


----------



## Ace

Bron Bron to give :trolldog's SD a good ol' addlin


----------



## validreasoning

The XL 2 said:


> Daniel Bryan isn't a draw and never was on this level. The ratings were up in 2014 because of Dave Batista.


If you are going to make such a statement at least back it up with evidence. The only tv number Batista effected was the raw on his return and that was massively advertised for weeks before hand.

You can pick any raw from that time and Bryan was highest rated segment e.g here with Batistas first appearance the second lowest of
the night https://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_77624.shtml#.WvppCHXTU4M

Here Batistas match with Bryan does less viewers than Bryan's earlier segment 
https://www.pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_76825.shtml#.WvptJnXTU4N

The week Bryan didn't appear a number of segments did better than Batista


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 5/15/18 Vs 5/8/18 ):
2.298M Vs 2.293M ( + 0.005M / + 0.22% )
0.700D Vs 0.710D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.298M Vs 2.741M ( - 0.443M / 83.84% )
0.700D Vs 0.897D*

*Note: SDL is 4th by demo & 8th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 5/15/18 Vs 5/16/17 ):
2.298M Vs 2.175M ( + 0.123M / + 5.66% )
0.700D Vs 0.680D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.175M Vs 2.751M ( - 0.576M / 79.06% )
0.680D Vs 0.973D

Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 10th by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Almost exactly the same as last week. And who would have guessed that they'd be over 80% of RAW's rating? Nothing will ever change. At least they are up year to year.


----------



## DB DA GAWD

I was watching the basketball game myself and recorded the show.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

More proof that no matter how much better SDL is better than RAW, and last night it was way better, the RAW name shall always prevail. I don't foresee this ever changing and I'll be saying the same thing next year too.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The tv deal for RAW just reinforces what anyone with sense has been saying. RAW is the flagship show. It is their top brand and that brand is what draws.

Great money deal for RAW. Wonder where SDL lands because many cable channels would love to have a show with its ratings.


----------



## JDP2016

Smackdown blows. 

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## AlternateDemise

The only thing that matters is that they are up from last year. Anything less is a failure on their end.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 5/22/18 Vs 5/15/18 ):
2.195M Vs 2.298M ( - 0.103M / - 4.48% )
0.680D Vs 0.700D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.195M Vs 2.669M ( - 0.474M / 82.24% )
0.680D Vs 0.887D*

*Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 5/22/18 Vs 5/23/17 ):
2.195M Vs 2.328M ( - 0.133M / - 5.71% )
0.680D Vs 0.800D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.328M Vs 2.615M ( - 0.287M / 89.02% )
0.800D Vs 0.910D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 8th by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

Fucking wrecked :lol


----------



## JDP2016




----------



## Empress

I feel for the performers who are giving their best but there comes a point when fans just have had enough. I reached mine for the time being. But Vince has millions stashed for the next five years. I doubt he and creative care that much at this point about how low the ratings fall.


----------



## Ace

Empress said:


> I feel for the performers who are giving their best but there comes a point when fans just have had enough. I reached mine for the time being. But Vince has millions stashed for the next five years. I doubt he and creative care that much at this point about how low the ratings fall.


 Nice to see you back.

I feel the same way, this year has been just too much. Before there were the matches that could carry the shows, but those are gone now as well. 

The whole AJ-Nak, Brock-Roman and Roman push in general has put me off the WWE.


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

I hope for Fox's sake that their wider availability brings Smackdown to jump considerably, up to 40% more. Because that's what they need to make it worthwhile.


----------



## Empress

Emperor said:


> Nice to see you back.
> 
> I feel the same way, this year has been just too much. Before there were the matches that could carry the shows, but those are gone now as well.
> 
> The whole AJ-Nak, Brock-Roman and Roman push in general has put me off the WWE.


Thanks.

Mania was it for me. The first half was great and then it went to hell. Brock/Roman was a disaster. Four years wasted. AJ and Nakamura has been very disappointing. I didn't expect much from Brock/Roman. But it stings more that Naka and Styles has turned into low blows. I stopped watching after GRR. I read Backlash was a total disaster. I honestly can't say I miss RAW or SD. 

People have referred me to some Bryan and Rollins clips on Youtube that are actually worth watching. I feel for those two the most; Rollins seems to be at a career high and Bryan is on his comeback and they're stuck in all this crap. 

I doubt much changes. Unless Fox or NBC pulls out of their deals. If I were getting a billion dollars and only had to deliver the bare minimum, I might half ass too.


----------



## Sincere

Raw's attempt at a WOAT show probably hurt SDL a lot this week. It's unfortunate, because SDL, while not putting on great shows, are at least putting on decent shows--certainly superior to much of Raw's garbage tier shows--yet it always suffers from its implicit b-show status.

SD going to Fox in 2019 seems like it will be a big boon for the brand.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Good show last night but they are forever going to be stuck with around 80% RAW retention. I think they'll even do worse on Fridays,


----------



## aj styles fan

The only bad news is that SD this year is down from last yeas.
However, I just controlled and the episode of 22 May 2017 was the show after Backlash.


----------



## JTB33b

It's sad that people are just programmed to not watch Smackdown, just because it's not considered the flagship show. It also hurts that people don't want to watch back to back nights of wrestling but then in that case just skip Raw and watch Smackdown.NCIS season finale was on last night also which I am sure hurt.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Maybe its time to actually advertise and do something with Joe, eh?


----------



## The XL 2

At least this puts to bed all that nonsense about Daniel Bryan being the most over guy on the roster since Rock and Austin and him being bigger than Batista or even Punk. He isn't and wasn't a big time draw, not a knock on him, just a fact. He came back and nobody cared.


----------



## southrnbygrace

This doesn't really have much to do the the buys or attendance, but I attended a concert tonight at the arena when they are having Smackdown this Tuesday. All of the ads there have Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens and AJ Styles on them. Um, pretty sure two of those guys aren't even on the show any more.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 5/29/18 Vs 5/22/18 ):
2.195M Vs 2.195M ( +/- 0.000M / +/- 0.000% )
0.660D Vs 0.680D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.195M Vs 2.495M ( - 0.300M / 87.98% )
0.660D Vs 0.767D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 5/29/18 Vs 5/30/17 ):
2.195M Vs 2.350M ( - 0.155M / - 6.60% )
0.660D Vs 0.770D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.350M Vs 2.613M ( - 0.263M / 89.94% )
0.770D Vs 0.863D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*


----------



## LiableToPay

Not surprised at the horrendous number. To think that SD had got the better of the draft BY FAR :lol. The championship feud is beyond stale and SD doesn't even have the excuse of a missing champion. Put the title on Joe or Bryan ASAP please!


----------



## AlternateDemise

LiableToPay said:


> Not surprised at the horrendous number. To think that SD had got the better of the draft BY FAR :lol. The championship feud is beyond stale and SD doesn't even have the excuse of a missing champion. Put the title on Joe or Bryan ASAP please!


Smackdown did get the better of the draft by far.


----------



## Ace

Wow, that is a pathetic number with no competition fpalm

I guess Shiv may have been right about it being a 4th and 5th hr of Raw.



LiableToPay said:


> Not surprised at the horrendous number. To think that SD had got the better of the draft BY FAR <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />. The championship feud is beyond stale and SD doesn't even have the excuse of a missing champion. Put the title on Joe or Bryan ASAP please!


 Uh, Bryan vs Joe was the advertised main event for a damn week and went up against nothing. The show damn bombed. Best you think of home before taking a shot at the champ who was not advertised, even there and had a less then 2 min pretaped backstage segment.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

People need to realize SDL ratings are inextricably linked to RAW'S. I do wonder how often SDL even beats Hour 3? I do know Hour 3 was higher than SDL this week and in no way was that hour a better show. Will being on Fridays help it? don't know but I am certain that wrestling fatigue is setting in with Hour 4 and 5 right now. You have to remember it's the same audience watching both shows. Five hours of crap is a lot to swallow.

It usually gets around 70%+ to 80% of RAW. This week was high 80's but they don't often exceed it. Same old, same old. I think the only way SDL might beat RAW is if RAW had 3 hours featuring only their woeful tag division. Stress _might beat_.

Not happy to be right about the rating, but it's going to be similar each and every week. I have no reading on Fridays at Fox until it happens.


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

Yeah .... Any faith that Smackdown will get about 800.000-1.000.000 additional viewers on Fox on a regular basis? It would pretty much have to do RAW numbers (the non-NBA and non-NFL numbers) to be able to survive on Fox.


----------



## Erik.

What were Fox thinking?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

RAW IS BRAUN said:


> What were Fox thinking?



We'll have to wait and see. It will benefit by being on a higher rated network and getting promoted on NFL Thursday Night Football, but it will also be on Fridays. It's going to be interesting to see how this all shakes out.


----------



## Ace

RAW IS BRAUN said:


> What were Fox thinking?


 Ratings were decent, it's only post WM they've been really bad. 2.1m with no competition and a big match promoted all week is appalling. There's little reason to watch week to week and the feuds mean nothing.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Emperor said:


> Ratings were decent, it's only post WM they've been really bad. 2.1m with no competition and a big match promoted all week is appalling. There's little reason to watch week to week and the feuds mean nothing.



The rating sucked. I bet RAW rises next week and SDL will too. I do wonder if Smackdown being 4 days later than RAW will alleviate some of the viewer fatigue come fall 2019.


----------



## Mr Red 88

What the hell is Cropper doing?
Where is the mythical mainstream audience he is bringing back :mj4


----------



## Ace

Mr Red 88 said:


> What the hell is Cropper doing?
> Where is the mythical mainstream audience he is bringing back <img src="http://imgur.com/7fvjvtR.png" border="0" alt="" title="Jordan" class="inlineimg" />


 Who's Cropper?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Man, that was a horrendous number with no competition.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

RAW Hour 3 was 2.3 million something. Given the quality of what I just witnessed, SDL is going to flirt with sub 2 million. I bet they stay above it, but it shouldn't be by a lot.


----------



## Ace

I hope it's sub 2m, the show was so boring and nothing eventful or remotely interesting ever happens on the show.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 6/5/18 Vs 5/29/18 ):
2.138M Vs 2.195M ( - 0.057M / - 2.60% )
0.670D Vs 0.660D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.138M Vs 2.526M ( - 0.388M / 84.64% )
0.670D Vs 0.850D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 6/5/18 Vs 6/6/17 ):
2.138M Vs 2.349M ( - 0.211M / - 8.98% )
0.670D Vs 0.740D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.349M Vs 2.994M ( - 0.645M / 78.46% )
0.740D Vs 1.037D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Rating was pretty much statistically the same as last week. Sightly up in demo and slightly down in total viewers. 84.64% RAW retention. Finished below Hour 3 again. Def. not surprised. I have a feeling I can make this same post for the foreseeable future as this is the WWE's viewing pattern.


----------



## Ace

Deserved, the show was boring.


----------



## BeckyLynchFan29

THE MAN said:


> Rating was pretty much statistically the same as last week. Sightly up in demo and slightly down in total viewers. 84.64% RAW retention. Finished below Hour 3 again. Def. not surprised. I have a feeling I can make this same post for the foreseeable future as this is the WWE's viewing pattern.


wonder airing on Fox on friday nights will help the viewing patten?


----------



## JDP2016

Nothing but draws on Smackdown Live. 

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

They are right on track getting Smackdown back to the numbers it did when it was a taped RAW Rewind, right on time to put it on Fox fpalm


----------



## the_hound

fox executives must be hoping the ink hasn't dried on the contract, wwe right now is absolutely dire


----------



## InexorableJourney

I wonder..Since Smackdown Live regularly gets 80-85% of RAW's audience, however the show is.

What if WWE *just* loaded RAW to get a great rating, would SDL still benefit?
Because if it did they could just gut SDL, give RAW all the stars, and still get an 80% inertia rating.


----------



## shadows123

its actually too much wwe every week and not in a good way.. Ratings are definitely going to reflect that...Raw has sucked for a while now and SD has been decent at best.. so nothing there to make viewers continue watching wwe programming for 5 hrs a week plus also buy their network which costs like 10$ (and is comparable in cost to Netflix)!!!


----------



## The XL 2

The holy workrate smark trio of Daniel Bryan, AJ Styles, and Shinsuke Nakamura drawing somewhat significantly lower numbers than Jinder Mahals WWE Title run last year is lulzworthy. Literally no one gives a fuck about those guys. The WWE is lucky their is a TV rights bubble right now or they'd be fucked. Although I'm sure Fox is already having buyers remorse after seeing some of these awful numbers.


----------



## Littbarski

The XL 2 said:


> The holy workrate smark trio of Daniel Bryan, AJ Styles, and Shinsuke Nakamura drawing somewhat significantly lower numbers than Jinder Mahals WWE Title run last year is lulzworthy. Literally no one gives a fuck about those guys. The WWE is lucky their is a TV rights bubble right now or they'd be fucked. Although I'm sure Fox is already having buyers remorse after seeing some of these awful numbers.


Smackdown finished on top of the chart this past Tuesday and the week before that. No network is looking at the top show and thinking how awful are those numbers.


----------



## Ace

The XL 2 said:


> The holy workrate smark trio of Daniel Bryan, AJ Styles, and Shinsuke Nakamura drawing somewhat significantly lower numbers than Jinder Mahals WWE Title run last year is lulzworthy. Literally no one gives a fuck about those guys. The WWE is lucky their is a TV rights bubble right now or they'd be fucked. Although I'm sure Fox is already having buyers remorse after seeing some of these awful numbers.


 Yeah do realize majority of the top 10 ratings post split would include AJ in the main event, whereas the top 20 would probably have ~15 or more.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I expect it to be about the same or slightly lower. RAW was a bit up so that might help them, but I imagine the women's main event might have driven some viewers off.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 6/12/18 Vs 6/5/18 ):
2.183M Vs 2.138M ( + 0.045M / + 2.10% )
0.660D Vs 0.670D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.183M Vs 2.731M ( - 0.548M / 79.93% )
0.660D Vs 0.937D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 6/12/18 Vs 6/13/17 ):
2.183M Vs 2.072M ( + 0.111M / + 5.36% )
0.660D Vs 0.630D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.072M Vs 2.542M ( - 0.470M / 81.51% )
0.630D Vs 0.860D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 14th by viewership.*


----------



## Sincere




----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Slightly up in viewers and slightly dwn in demo. Not much different than last week except that this show wasn't as good. It's percentage of RAW decreased a bit as RAW did improve a bit over the previous week. Nothing new to see here.


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

Smackdown didn't recover at all from the past weeks of competition, did it?


----------



## BeckyLynchFan29

Fox has to be shaken their heads if they see the ratings smackdown is doing now and they just gave them a billion dollar contract to air this show on their main network.


----------



## AlternateDemise

BeckyLynchFan29 said:


> Fox has to be shaken their heads if they see the ratings smackdown is doing now and they just gave them a billion dollar contract to air this show on their main network.


Are you not aware of what kind of numbers their other shows do?


----------



## Ace

:ha

Can Fox opt out if their ratings continue to fall at this rate?


----------



## Littbarski

BeckyLynchFan29 said:


> Fox has to be shaken their heads if they see the ratings smackdown is doing now and they just gave them a billion dollar contract to air this show on their main network.


It was the top show again on cable and had more viewers than the equivalent night a year ago so why would Fox be anything but happy. 

Currently on Fox the show on Friday nights is doing 400,000-600,000 viewers. Fox probably counting down the days until its guaranteed far more than that 52 weeks a year.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Sometimes people tend to forget that it always does well in the demo regardless of. the show quality. Makes me wonder how much a consistently good show would improve the ratings.


----------



## LiableToPay

Another shit rating for SD Live. But wasn't it supposed to improve with the RAW ratings? :lol

The main event scene is stale. Just put the belt on Joe or Bryan already.


----------



## Zigglerpops

The definition of stupidity: People going on about ratings, when they mean jack shit


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

AlternateDemise said:


> Are you not aware of what kind of numbers their other shows do?


Are you not aware their current Friday night show does a million more than Smackdown?


----------



## squarebox

Raw-Is-Botchamania said:


> Are you not aware their current Friday night show does a million more than Smackdown?


lol that's actually hilarious tbh. Do Fox know what they're getting themselves into here?


----------



## Littbarski

Raw-Is-Botchamania said:


> Are you not aware their current Friday night show does a million more than Smackdown?


I posted last Friday's chart just above. The show currently running on Friday nights is actually drawing 400,000-650,000 viewers so far below Smackdown. And there is a massive difference between cable and network tv. If a show is doing well on cable it should do far better on network tv given the greater exposure and reach.


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

squarebox said:


> lol that's actually hilarious tbh. Do Fox know what they're getting themselves into here?


Fox paid for Smackdown because their thing is "Live sports is the future", and because they expect an increase in viewership based on their wider availability.
Smackdown needs at least an increase of 700.000 viewers to match the current Fox friday night viewership.
That would be an increase in the 40-45% range. That's quite the faith they put into that.

I think Fox looked at the RAW viewership and thought they can get those people, too, if they do it right. However, WWE TV is just getting colder by the week. 

Plus, isn't Friday night kind of a difficult spot to draw the target audience of 16-35? I mean, as a teen or college student, I can imagine more fun activities on the weekend.


----------



## InexorableJourney

I'm sure the moment SDL on FOX started to outdraw RAW Vince would pull the talent again.


----------



## AlternateDemise

Raw-Is-Botchamania said:


> Are you not aware their current Friday night show does a million more than Smackdown?


Are you not aware that there's literally a post in this very thread on the same page that you posted in showing that this isn't true at all?


----------



## tducey

I wonder how a Smackdown move to FOX impacts things. FOX is a big station, they're going to want some good programming. Hoping they can lead Smackdown to be consistently good.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 6/19/18 Vs 6/12/18 ):
2.315M Vs 2.183M ( + 0.132M / + 6.05% )
0.780D Vs 0.660D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.315M Vs 2.903M ( - 0.588M / 79.75% )
0.780D Vs 0.980D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 6/19/18 Vs 6/20/17 ):
2.315M Vs 2.597M ( - 0.282M / - 10.86% )
0.780D Vs 0.850D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.597M Vs 3.102M ( - 0.505M / 83.72% )
0.850D Vs 0.860D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 4th by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Slight bump, the same as RAW had. Right on that 80% RAW retention rate. It only changes slightly most weeks. Good to see an uptick in both viewers and demo but both shows are still down year to year.


----------



## chronoxiong

Daniel Bryan + Gauntlet Match = ratings


----------



## Mordecay

You took out the IIconics for 2 weeks: The ratings drop

They returned last week and they also were this week on the show: Ratings increase last 2 weeks

IIconics=Ratings


----------



## chronoxiong

Mordecay said:


> You took out the IIconics for 2 weeks: The ratings drop
> 
> They returned last week and they also were this week on the show: Ratings increase last 2 weeks
> 
> IIconics=Ratings


Let me know when they start winning any kind of matches. Because right now, I see them as jobbers who get mic time.


----------



## Mordecay

chronoxiong said:


> Let me know when they start winning any kind of matches. Because right now, I see them as jobbers who get mic time.


They ARE jobbers who get mic time, they also draw ratings with those mic skills :wink2::grin2:


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 6/26/18 Vs 6/19/18 ):
2.135M Vs 2.315M ( - 0.180M / - 7.78% )
0.640D Vs 0.780D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.135M Vs 2.663M ( - 0.528M / 80.17% )
0.640D Vs 0.863D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 6/26/18 Vs 6/27/17 ):
2.135M Vs 2.603M ( - 0.468M / - 17.98% )
0.640D Vs 0.830D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.603M Vs 2.977M ( - 0.374M / 87.44% )
0.830D Vs 1.043D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Was a mess of a show. Was built around a match that didn't happen due to a dog bite. They also didn't have their WWE champion, and gave pretty much no promotion to the #1 contender.

No surprise in the drop.


----------



## Ace

Ouch.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

RAW falls. SDL falls. Funny how that always seems to be the case. Hit that 80% RAW retention yet again. The only real interest in the ratings threads is to see just how far the ratings will drop for both brands..

Down 18% year to year. The Good Old Days.


----------



## AB81

wow what a terrible rating and in the summer to with nothing else on just imagine how low they will go come fall when all the shows kick off their new season.


----------



## JDP2016

Not a good week for WWE but hey, they got their money.


----------



## Mordecay

You promote a match with the IIconics and then don't deliver, you get those results :grin2:


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

A show with a well advertised main event (the gauntlet match) outdraws a show that failed to deliver the match that the show was hyping. Not shocked at all. The rating was slightly lower than 2 weeks ago. Can it dip below that 2 million mark?


----------



## AB81

Mordecay said:


> You promote a match with the IIconics and then don't deliver, you get those results :grin2:


Peyton=Ratings :grin2:

don't tease the IIconics fans or they will boycott and take the ratings with them.lol


----------



## chronoxiong

Didn't they advertised two matches that actually not happened? I usually like to clown on RAW for the Universal Title being held hostage, but I dont think the WWE Champion's presence would have been enough to save this week's rating.


----------



## MOBELS

Down 20% from last year, shows that the Maharaja was a major draw.


----------



## LiableToPay

Another woeful rating. Can we please finally get the belt off Styles now? Its beyond embarrassing at this point. Getting outdrawn by Jinder's reign and that too by 20% lol.


----------



## Ace

It's laughable how some are even trying to pin this on AJ when he's barely getting time on SD and is basically a part time champion. The funny thing is ratings were A LOT better when he was promoted and featured more as the top star, now that ratings are falling there are trolls are trying to blame him when he's never even around. 

If anything, Bryan is the top star on SD atm. He's heavily featured and is in the main event every week. But I'm not going to blame him for the low ratings, because it's apparent that this has more to do with the creative killing interest in the product (Raw and SD) than a particular star causing the drop.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

I think what's hurting SD is the lack of a top heel. They can solve this by putting the WWE Title on either Miz or Samoa Joe. Another option is having Paige become a heel GM. Not having a heel GM is something that has hurt SD as well as RAW. 

As far as Daniel Bryan goes he's been in the SD main event in 7 out of the last 12 shows. SD has pretty much been built around him since he came back.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Emperor said:


> It's laughable how some are even trying to pin this on AJ when he's barely getting time on SD and is basically a part time champion. The funny thing is ratings were A LOT better when he was promoted and featured more as the top star, now that ratings are falling there are trolls are trying to blame him when he's never even around.
> 
> If anything, Bryan is the top star on SD atm. He's heavily featured and is in the main event every week. But I'm not going to blame him for the low ratings, because it's apparent that this has more to do with the creative killing interest in the product (Raw and SD) than a particular star causing the drop.


I blame creative. Both shows are hemorrhaging viewers and I don't attribute it to any one wrestler, just like no one should seriously attribute last year's ratings to this wresting deity.


----------



## LiableToPay

Emperor said:


> It's laughable how some are even trying to pin this on AJ when he's barely getting time on SD and is basically a part time champion. The funny thing is ratings were A LOT better when he was promoted and featured more as the top star, now that ratings are falling there are trolls are trying to blame him when he's never even around.
> 
> If anything, Bryan is the top star on SD atm. He's heavily featured and is in the main event every week. But I'm not going to blame him for the low ratings, because it's apparent that this has more to do with the creative killing interest in the product (Raw and SD) than a particular star causing the drop.


Nice excuses but Styles is just not an interesting enough character to build the brand around in the first place and his reign is beyond stale because of it. He has no business holding the belt at this moment with guys like Joe and Bryan around who are MUCH better all round performers. When Jinder fucking Mahal is outdrawing your reign by some comfortable margin, you know it's time to drop the belt.


----------



## Ace

.


----------



## Zone

LiableToPay said:


> Nice excuses *but Styles is just not an interesting enough character to build the brand around in the first place* and his reign is beyond stale because of it. He has no business holding the belt at this moment with guys like Joe and Bryan around who are MUCH better all round performers. When Jinder fucking Mahal is outdrawing your reign by some comfortable margin, you know it's time to drop the belt.


Let me guess, Roman Reigns is?

Can you quit trolling already. Your gimmick is beyond stale at this point.


----------



## Wildcat410

The belt needs to be relocated to Rusev Day. Then the subjects shall follow the brute king, and a new age of glory shall arise.


----------



## Empress

Vince already signed a billion dollar deal. That's the number that probably matters to him at this point. You can always polish the ratings.

Although, Bryan is one of the few reasons I'd tune into Smackdown. Happy he's back. I usually catch his segments on Youtube.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

@Emperor ;

This could be the week SDL goes below 2m. Tv ratings are soft around July 4th and it is a summer holiday. If it does drop, I think it might rebound a bit the following week, but maybe it's teetering on the ledge and the whole bottom may fall out.


----------



## Adam Cool

people should just Give up at this point 
a Billion dollar deal means that Vince won't give a shit if Smackdown's ratings is the same as Impact wrestling


----------



## Bink77

You would think that FOX or USA would care though....


----------



## The Boy Wonder

*WWE Smackdown Live viewership bombs*



> Tuesday’s WWE Smackdown Live averaged 2.013 million viewers for USA Network, according to Showbuzzdaily.com. The number was down from the 2.135 million count from last Tuesday’s edition.
> 
> Powell’s POV: A lousy number even when you consider the fact that this show aired the night before a holiday. Case in point, the show actually aired on July 4 last year and it delivered 2.329 million viewers.


I wish they would've focused the last two weeks around Rusev, since he's the #1 contender.


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

2.013 million viewers.

They're dropping like a sack of shit. By the time they put Smackdown on Fox, they'll be back to what they did when SD was taped, meaning 1.X.
Their booking of Bryan's return and the AJ/Nakamura feud are driving away fans right in front of their eyes.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Ratings are plummeting but Vince still got paid. :vince$


----------



## Ace

:ha

Maybe they should actually build around the main event rather than let it be an afterthought and feel secondary to a tag title feud. Probably would be a good idea to use Samoa Joe and Cien as well.


----------



## Jedah

I guess building your show around pancakes, a bad joke of a women's champion, and a filler mid card and main event isn't best for business.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 7/3/18 Vs 6/26/18 ):
2.013M Vs 2.135M ( - 0.122M / - 5.71% )
0.540D Vs 0.640D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.013M Vs 2.707M ( - 0.694M / 25.64% )
0.540D Vs 0.883D*

*Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 7/3/18 Vs 7/4/17 ):
2.013M Vs 2.329M ( - 0.316M / - 13.57% )
0.540D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.329M Vs 2.839M ( - 0.510M / 82.04% )
0.750D Vs 0.923D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 1st by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

Jedah said:


> I guess building your show around pancakes, a bad joke of a women's champion, and a filler mid card and main event isn't best for business.


 There is no main event feud on SD atm because they're treating the world title like an afterthought. Team Hell No opened and closed the show and were featured throughout the show. As someone who cares most about the world title, I couldn't have cared less.


----------



## Jedah

It's all filler. Even Team Hell No is itself filler. It's all just filling TV time until they put a little more effort into building SummerSlam (hopefully).

But if Joe isn't even featured to heat him up before feuding with AJ and Carmella retains next Sunday, I really don't know what to say.

Joe, Almas, The Bar, need to be featured a lot more instead of the New Day and their dumbass pancakes.

And Carmella needs to drop the women's title yesterday. The SummerSlam match should be some combination of Asuka/Charlotte/Becky - you know, something that actually might excite people. What a concept.


----------



## Ace

Jedah said:


> It's all filler. Even Team Hell No is itself filler. It's all just filling TV time until they put a little more effort into building SummerSlam (hopefully).
> 
> But if Joe isn't even featured to heat him up before feuding with AJ and Carmella retains next Sunday, I really don't know what to say.
> 
> Joe, Almas, The Bar, need to be featured a lot more instead of the New Day and their dumbass pancakes.
> 
> And Carmella needs to drop the women's title yesterday. The SummerSlam match should be some combination of Asuka/Charlotte/Becky - you know, something that actually might excite people. What a concept.


 The world title feud is worse than filler, they're giving it zero importance. I don't care who the challenger is, that should be in all the key segment slots most weeks because it's the top title on the show.


----------



## Dibil13

Time to beg Cena to come back.


----------



## Mordecay

That happens when you only give Peyton 3 minutes for her match :grin2:

In all honesty, while the show had some fun parts with Team Hell No, everything felt, I don't know how to explain it, but I suppose that the best explanation is that everything felt so "midcard", nothing felt "must watch, can't miss" tv.


----------



## Chrome

Down from last year and last year was on a holiday too. :damn


----------



## Ace

Mordecay said:


> That happens when you only give Peyton 3 minutes for her match :grin2:
> 
> In all honesty, while the show had some fun parts with Team Hell No, everything felt, I don't know how to explain it, but I suppose that the best explanation is that everything felt so "midcard", nothing felt "must watch, can't miss" tv.


 Because they've demoted their world title to midcard/afterthought levels...


----------



## Robbyfude

Not surprising. Aj's run has gotten stale, the Bludgeon brothers went their first month as champions without wrestling, Jeff Hardy can't really go anymore and Carmella is just..... yeah.


----------



## Ace

Robbyfude said:


> Not surprising. Aj's run has gotten stale, the Bludgeon brothers went their first month as champions without wrestling, Jeff Hardy can't really go anymore and Carmella is just..... yeah.


 You do realize AJ has barely been on SD since it really hit rock bottom in the ratings? AJ's title reign hasn't been great, but it's asinine to blame someone who is 1) Rarely there 2) rarely promoted 3) Not booked as the top star.

Bryan has been booked as the top star of SD since WM, he's the one getting the main events and most of the TV time. Whereas the likes of AJ, Joe, Nakamura, Cien etc. have been barely used. I'm not blaming Bryan, it's just that creative have done nothing to make people watch. The top stars aren't used and the one that is, isn't booked well either (Cass and Team Hell No).


----------



## Robbyfude

Emperor said:


> You do realize AJ has barely been on SD since it really hit rock bottom in the ratings? AJ's title reign hasn't been great, but it's asinine to blame someone who is 1) Rarely there 2) rarely promoted 3) Not booked as the top star.
> 
> Bryan has been booked as the top star of SD since WM, he's the one getting the main events and most of the TV time. Whereas the likes of AJ, Joe, Nakamura, Cien etc. have been barely used. I'm not blaming Bryan, it's just that creative have done nothing to make people watch. The top stars aren't used and the one that is, isn't booked well either (Cass and Team Hell No).


Im not blaming AJ, just the booking as you can tell from me mentioning the tag champs didn't even wrestle for the first month of their reign.


----------



## Ace

Robbyfude said:


> Im not blaming AJ, just the booking as you can tell from me mentioning the tag champs didn't even wrestle for the first month of their reign.


 Sorry, I thought you were insinuating it. There are some who are blaming AJ for this fall, which is funny because he's never around and never main events. It's basically like the CM Punk reign again except Punk main evented more and was featured more.

BB have had it worse, they get zero TV time and plenty probably forget they're the tag champs.


----------



## Robbyfude

Emperor said:


> Sorry, I thought you were insinuating it. There are some who are blaming AJ for this fall, which is funny because he's never around and never main events. It's basically like the CM Punk reign again except Punk main evented more and was featured more.
> 
> BB have had it worse, they get zero TV time and plenty probably forget they're the tag champs.


Yeah they've been used horribly.


----------



## drougfree

Nothing new Bryan cant draw


----------



## chronoxiong

Barely 2 million viewers this week with a horrible sign of declining ratings/viewerships. Someone, please save this shit. Fucken TV deals they got from Fox and NBC.


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

drougfree said:


> Nothing new Bryan cant draw


You spelled Kane wrong.

Nobody wants to see their favorite wasted in stupid comedy angles with a 50-year old, balding, beer bellied has been.


----------



## Empress

Emperor said:


> You do realize AJ has barely been on SD since it really hit rock bottom in the ratings? AJ's title reign hasn't been great, but it's asinine to blame someone who is 1) Rarely there 2) rarely promoted 3) Not booked as the top star.
> 
> *Bryan has been booked as the top star of SD since WM, he's the one getting the main events and most of the TV time. Whereas the likes of AJ, Joe, Nakamura, Cien etc. have been barely used. I'm not blaming Bryan, it's just that creative have done nothing to make people watch. The top stars aren't used and the one that is, isn't booked well either (Cass and Team Hell No).*


This is the problem in a nutshell. Bryan and Styles are beloved but yet WWE takes their popularity for granted. I love these two guys but I don't care enough to watch SD regularly. 

I did read something about stories changing once they get to FOX but what's the point? If WCW were still around, changes would've been made a long time ago. Vince has no competition and isn't hungry anymore. He can be happy with 2 million viewers a week (inflate it with social media and streaming), a $5 billion deal and is spending $500 million on the XFL.


----------



## Reil

I think the storyline changing thing is because if WWE pulls in only 2 million viewers for Smackdown, FOX will not hesitate in the slightest to cancel it, meaning all that extra TV money vanishes. And that would cause WWE stocks to take a pretty massive nosedive.

FOX has a history of cancelling shows for performing even slightly under their expectations.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

That is pretty rough.


----------



## 751161

I actually didn't think SDL was awful, but there's just nothing interesting about the show. No storylines are interesting, the feuds feel filler as fuck, everything just feels like you've seen it all before. Even AJ's reign feels dead. It's depressing.

RAW is pretty much the same, but it has the benefit of being the flagship, and also for me, it has this beautiful man :rollins


----------



## AlternateDemise

Emperor said:


> You do realize AJ has barely been on SD since it really hit rock bottom in the ratings? AJ's title reign hasn't been great, but it's asinine to blame someone who is 1) Rarely there 2) rarely promoted 3) Not booked as the top star.
> 
> Bryan has been booked as the top star of SD since WM, he's the one getting the main events and most of the TV time. Whereas the likes of AJ, Joe, Nakamura, Cien etc. have been barely used. I'm not blaming Bryan, it's just that creative have done nothing to make people watch. The top stars aren't used and the one that is, isn't booked well either (Cass and Team Hell No).


It's asinine to blame any one person when you don't have rating breakdowns to determine who the fans are actually watching the show for.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

@Emperor ;

This could be the week for sub 2M. I know I predicted an uptick, but this rating for RAW Hour 3 gives me pause. H3- 2.320M

As to WWE"s ratings:


----------



## Dibil13

Inb4 1.9 million viewers


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Will it be below 2M? I think it will stay a hair above, we'll see. It was a day before a Holiday last week.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 7/10/18 Vs 7/3/18 ):
2.183M Vs 2.013M ( + 0.170M / + 8.45% )
0.680D Vs 0.540D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.183M Vs 2.470M ( - 0.287M / 88.38% )
0.680D Vs 0.780D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 7/10/18 Vs 7/11/17 ):
2.183M Vs 2.465M ( - 0.282M / - 11.44% )
0.680D Vs 0.760D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.465M Vs 3.009M ( - 0.544M / 81.92% )
0.760D Vs 0.973D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Will it be below 2M? I think it will stay a hair above, we'll see. It was a day before a Holiday last week.


2.183 M with .68 in the demo. I do think the holiday impacted them last week. This is higher than it was 2 weeks ago.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

2.1 is about SD's ceiling these days. Still can't even beat Raw's lowest rating of all time. Woof.


----------



## Ace

Disappointed.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

88.38% RAW retention is higher than normal. RAW Hour 3 enabling SDL to close the gap. :trips8

The good news is the rating went up. The bad news is that it's off 11% from last year while RAW was down almost 18%. The state of both shows. :heston


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I feel like that's a pretty good rating.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The Inbred Goatman said:


> I feel like that's a pretty good rating.


It might be the new normal. Since mid May, Smackdown is getting 2.1M viewers on most weeks. Increasing over 8% from last week might be construed as a good sign or that last week was merely an aberration.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

I mean, it's not good. But at least it didn't go below 2 million and actually managed to go back above 2.1 million. It's sad that's a relief for them, but it is what it is at this point.


----------



## chronoxiong

Just thank the lord it didn't go below 2 million viewers. Or else Fox will be regretting for their TV deal next year.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

SHIV:THE OTHER WHITE MEAT said:


> The good news is the rating went up. The bad news is that it's off 11% from last year while RAW was down almost 18%. The state of both shows. :heston


SDL this week last year nearly hit this week's RAW levels.

*SDL Vs RAW ( 7/10/18 Vs 7/10/17 ):
2.465M Vs 2.470M
0.760D Vs 0.780D*

No causal factors (competition, holidays, PPV effect, special episodes etc.) affected either episode's viewership or demographic adversely.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> SDL this week last year almost hit this week's RAW levels.
> 
> *2.465M Vs 2.470M
> 0.760D Vs 0.780D*
> 
> No causal factors like special episodes or holidays or competitions or PPV effects affected either episode's viewership or demographic.


:damn

Can you imagine RAW in one year's time falling to SDL's current levels? :CENA

I have to believe there is an absolute floor below which they cannot sink. We might see where that is come NFL season.


----------



## LiableToPay

I wish SD had a champion like Bryan or Joe who could actually stay relevant. And I don't blame the writers for this.. Styles is just that uninteresting of a character.. the guy has absolutely no redeeming qualities outside of in ring stuff. Just end this torture already and put the title on Bryan or Joe.


----------



## DB DA GAWD

The Inbred Goatman said:


> I feel like that's a pretty good rating.


yeah i was expecting worse.


----------



## shadows123

LiableToPay said:


> I wish SD had a champion like Bryan or Joe who could actually stay relevant. And I don't blame the writers for this.. Styles is just that uninteresting of a character.. the guy has absolutely no redeeming qualities outside of in ring stuff. Just end this torture already and put the title on Bryan or Joe.


I think Road Dogg and Smackdown creative have a lot to blame for that..AJ was fine when he feuded with Cena and he was the cocky heel who worked with Anderson and Gallows.. Smackdown creative has just booked a whole lot of things wrongly (misuse of Charlotte and Becky lynch and Asuka in the women division and instead focusing on a largely uninteresting carmella) , Overdoing the AJ and Nakamura feud when it was not working, currently not using Samoa Joe to his full potential so to speak etc. Road dogg (Mr 50-50 wins and losses dont matter) i feel even if he had a prime Stone cold steve austin would've booked him like brooklyn brawler and then get into arguments with fans on twitter


----------



## DammitChrist

LiableToPay said:


> I wish SD had a champion like Bryan or Joe who could actually stay relevant. And I don't blame the writers for this.. Styles is just that uninteresting of a character.. *the guy has absolutely no redeeming qualities outside of in ring stuff. *Just end this torture already and put the title on Bryan or Joe.


That's false. Not only is AJ Styles one of the best wrestlers on the Smackdown roster; he's also pretty damn charismatic and he plays a natural babyface too.

Besides, Styles will most likely hold the WWE title until Summerslam; which is pretty cool.


----------



## tducey

Styles is among the best talents on either roster. Booking is what's preventing him from being fully interesting, it's not on him.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

@Emperor ;

SDL is on opposite MLB's All Star Game tonight. They could dip below 2M although they'd probably rebound next week.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

sorry wrong thread.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 7/17/18 Vs 7/10/18 ):
2.293M Vs 2.183M ( + 0.110M / + 5.04% )
0.740D Vs 0.680D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.293M Vs 2.866M ( - 0.573M / 80.01% )
0.740D Vs 0.960D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 7/17/18 Vs 7/18/17 ):
2.293M Vs 2.548M ( - 0.255M / - 10.01% )
0.740D Vs 0.810D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.548M Vs 3.153M ( - 0.605M / 80.81% )
0.810D Vs 1.070D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 2nd by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

It actually went up. I attribute it to the ppv bump and RAW being higher as well. Right on 80% of RAW retention yet again. Wouldn't call it a good rating as it was down 10% year to year. The only good thing I can say was that the show had its best episode in months last night.


----------



## AB81

HAHAHA it went up so another strike aginst that Rollins mark who said the all star game would cause smackdown ratings to go record low and it went up lol. yeah it clear now that dude has no clue what he is taking about and just talks out of his ass.


----------



## Sincere

Dat Becky bump


----------



## MC

:yes :yes :yes


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

AB81 said:


> HAHAHA it went up so another strike aginst that Rollins mark who said the all star game would cause smackdown ratings to go record low and it went up lol. yeah it clear now that dude has no clue what he is taking about and just talks out of his ass.


Which poster are you referring to? I thought it could drop below 2M but it didn't. Best rating it's had since June 19. It's still a poor rating and down 10% from last year when he was champion.


----------



## AB81

SHIV:THE OTHER WHITE MEAT said:


> Which poster are you referring to? I thought it could drop below 2M but it didn't. Best rating it's had since June 19. It's still a poor rating and down 10% from last year when he was champion.


that Rollins mark who always dickriding Seth claming he a huge draw in every raw ratings thread and comes to the smackdown thread to hate on smackdown every week.


----------



## Y.2.J

EDIT - wrong thread.

Great episode, best in a while. Deserved the bump.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 7/24/18 Vs 7/17/18 ):
2.340M Vs 2.293M ( + 0.047M / + 2.05% )
0.750D Vs 0.740D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.340M Vs 2.780M ( - 0.440M / 84.17% )
0.750D Vs 0.923D*

*Note: SDL is 4th by demo & 6th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 7/24/18 Vs 7/25/17 ):
2.340M Vs 2.535M ( - 0.195M / - 7.69% )
0.750D Vs 0.770D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.535M Vs 3.067M ( - 0.532M / 82.65% )
0.770D Vs 1.010D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 3rd by viewership.*


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Good number. The only thing advertised was AJ's Summerslam announcement and the tag title tournament.


----------



## Mordecay

Every time they put the IIconics on tv the rating increases lol. I know it's not because of them, but it is a funny coincidence


----------



## InexorableJourney

Looks like Miz brought in over half of SDL viewers by himself.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

This was their highest total viewer number since May 1. 84% RAW retention. The last two weeks have been decidedly better than RAW so maybe that has led to the slight uptick. Still down 7% year to year, but SDL did increase it's year to year RAW retention rate.All in all, not a bad week for Smackdown.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Down 7% from last year. Not sure what's up with that with both shows.


----------



## Skyblazer

The Boy Wonder said:


> Good number. The only thing advertised was AJ's Summerslam announcement and the tag title tournament.


I'm pretty sure that Becky vs Carmella was announced for this week on last week's show.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Skyblazer said:


> I'm pretty sure that Becky vs Carmella was announced for this week on last week's show.


Good point. She has a big fan base.


----------



## BeOP1

All Randy Orton fans stopped watching SD/WWE and when he came back they came back.
2 weeks of Orton being back and there you have it. Best rating since Orton last match on Sd.


----------



## LiableToPay

> Viewership & demo ( 7/24/18 Vs 7/25/17 ):
> 2.340M Vs 2.535M ( - 0.195M / - 7.69% )
> 0.750D Vs 0.770D


AJ Styles STILL getting outdrawn by Jinder fucking Mahal :bosque God how awful this reign has been..


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Maybe the mystery of AJ's opponent drew some interest. I think they need to do more to hype their upcoming shows, although they can't have a mystery every week.


----------



## tducey

Good rating #'s for Smackdown, show has been good lately so that'll always get people to watch. Hope it keeps up.


----------



## DammitChrist

LiableToPay said:


> AJ Styles STILL getting outdrawn by Jinder fucking Mahal :bosque God how awful this reign has been..


I like how you ignored the Smackdown ratings increasing this week with AJ Styles as WWE Champion and brought up with numbers from last year, which actually says more about fans giving up on the product (due to how poor it is overall) instead of just one individual superstar. Your hatred for Styles shows no bounds though :bosque

What "awful reign?" :lol

His WWE title reign is miles better than Brock Lesnar's Universal title reign since he almost never shows up, and since he's one of 2 men on Raw who's holding the main-event scene hostage.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I hope the quality of the last two episodes might result in a another slight uptick, but I shall not be holding my breath.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 7/31/18 Vs 7/24/18 ):
2.401M Vs 2.340M ( + 0.061M / + 2.61% )
0.750D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.401M Vs 2.901M ( - 0.500M / 82.77% )
0.750D Vs 0.987D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 7/31/18 Vs 8/1/17 ):
2.401M Vs 2.569M ( - 0.168M / - 6.54% )
0.750D Vs 0.760D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.569M Vs 3.163M ( - 0.594M / 81.22% )
0.760D Vs 1.027D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Raw went up 121K viewers this week from last week, so you knew SD would see somewhat of an increase (61K), about half the increase Raw saw this week. About right and expected.


----------



## InexorableJourney

SDL rating kicked everybody's ass. Bravo.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Slight uptick in total viewers. Demo was static and they retained 82.77% of RAW. Still down year to year by 6.5% but it improved on its RAW retention. I believe it has slightly increased for three straight weeks so they have at least arrested the freefall.


----------



## Ace

Likely down to Raw increasing and last couple of SDs being good.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Emperor said:


> Likely down to Raw increasing and last couple of SDs being good.


If they keep the quality up maybe they can get up to where they were last year. Pretty sad that would qualify as good now.


----------



## validreasoning

Although SD isn't a direct replacement it's interesting to compare what sort of numbers UFC shows on main Fox network have been doing.

UFC on Fox 30 (July 28 2018)...1.678 million viewers and 0.6 in 18-49 demo
UFC on Fox 29 (April 14 2018)...2.020 million viewers and 0.6 in 18-49 demo
UFC on Fox 28 (Feb 24 2018)....2.037 million viewers and 0.6 in 18-49 demo
UFC on Fox 27 (Jan 27 2018)....1.770 million viewers and 0.6 in 18-49 demo
UFC on Fox 26 (Dec 16 2017)....2.107 million viewers and 0.7 in 18-49 demo
UFC on Fox 25 (July 22 2017)....2.046 million viewers and 0.7 in 18-49 demo
UFC on Fox 24 (April 15 2017)...1.996 million viewers and 0.7 in 18-49 demo
UFC on Fox 23 (Jan 28 2017).....2.189 million viewers and 0.8 in 18-49 demo
UFC on Fox 22 (Dec 17 2016).....3.178 million viewers and 1.1 in 18-49 demo
UFC on Fox 21 (Aug 27 2016).....1.983 million viewers and 0.8 in 18-49 demo
UFC on Fox 20 (July 23 2016).....2.975 million viewers and 1.1 in 18-49 demo
UFC on Fox 19 (April 16 2016)....2.487 million viewers and 1.0 in 18-49 demo
UFC on Fox 18 (Jan 30 2016)......2.685 million viewers and 1.0 in 18-49 demo
UFC on Fox 17 (Dec 19 2015)......2.781 million viewers and 1.1 in 18-49 demo


----------



## tducey

While ratings aren't as important as they once were, it's good to see ratings going up. Hope it continues.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

validreasoning said:


> Although SD isn't a direct replacement it's interesting to compare what sort of numbers UFC shows on main Fox network have been doing.
> 
> UFC on Fox 30 (July 28 2018)...1.678 million viewers and 0.6 in 18-49 demo
> UFC on Fox 29 (April 14 2018)...2.020 million viewers and 0.6 in 18-49 demo
> UFC on Fox 28 (Feb 24 2018)....2.037 million viewers and 0.6 in 18-49 demo
> UFC on Fox 27 (Jan 27 2018)....1.770 million viewers and 0.6 in 18-49 demo
> UFC on Fox 26 (Dec 16 2017)....2.107 million viewers and 0.7 in 18-49 demo
> UFC on Fox 25 (July 22 2017)....2.046 million viewers and 0.7 in 18-49 demo
> UFC on Fox 24 (April 15 2017)...1.996 million viewers and 0.7 in 18-49 demo
> UFC on Fox 23 (Jan 28 2017).....2.189 million viewers and 0.8 in 18-49 demo
> UFC on Fox 22 (Dec 17 2016).....3.178 million viewers and 1.1 in 18-49 demo
> UFC on Fox 21 (Aug 27 2016).....1.983 million viewers and 0.8 in 18-49 demo
> UFC on Fox 20 (July 23 2016).....2.975 million viewers and 1.1 in 18-49 demo
> UFC on Fox 19 (April 16 2016)....2.487 million viewers and 1.0 in 18-49 demo
> UFC on Fox 18 (Jan 30 2016)......2.685 million viewers and 1.0 in 18-49 demo
> UFC on Fox 17 (Dec 19 2015)......2.781 million viewers and 1.1 in 18-49 demo


That Fox 30 rating was insane, a card loaded with former champions doing abysmal ratings.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Going to consult the quatrains and guess that this week drops a bit. I do hope it rises though.


----------



## Ace

SHIV:THE OTHER WHITE MEAT said:


> Going to consult thr quatrains and guess that this week drops a bit. I do hope it rises though.


 ~2.2m, last week's SD and this week's Raw weren't good.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 8/7/18 Vs 7/31/18 ):
2.197M Vs 2.401M ( - 0.204M / - 8.50% )
0.730D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.197M Vs 2.804M ( - 0.607M / 78.35% )
0.730D Vs 0.930D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 8/7/18 Vs 8/8/17 ):
2.197M Vs 2.569M ( - 0.472M / - 14.48% )
0.730D Vs 0.760D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.584M Vs 3.240M ( - 0.656M / 79.75% )
0.800D Vs 1.047D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 2nd by viewership.*


----------



## Chrome

Like Raw, SDL has had quite the drop from just a year ago. They might start going under 2 million before the year is over.


----------



## A-C-P

Chrome said:


> Like Raw, SDL has had quite the drop from just a year ago. They might start going under 2 million before the year is over.


And FOX is going to pay them a BILLION Dollars for it :bosque

Still better quality wise than Raw though :draper2


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

So, 2 weeks before SS, Raw has a 13.5% drop from last year at this time, and SD has a 14.5% drop from last year at this time.

:bjpenn

Great job, Vince. Good to see the company has a ton of momentum headed into the second biggest show of the year.

:ha

Old fool. When will that great, great day come...


----------



## Chrome

A-C-P said:


> And FOX is going to pay them a BILLION Dollars for it :bosque
> 
> Still better quality wise than Raw though :draper2


Still surprised at that lol. I'm not surprised at USA throwing them a billion because I'm pretty sure USA and WWE are in bed together at this point, but Fox throwing them that much is a different story.


----------



## Mordecay

That happens when you treat the IIconics like trash, people got mad and tuned out :grin2:


----------



## Ace

Thank god it dropped, the show didn't deserve a good rating.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

My feeling on last night's show has been vindicated. Couldn't quite reach the standard 80% RAW retention rate. The viewers dropped much more than the demo. Strangely the demo isn't much different year to year, but both shows have shed nearly half a millions viewers in the same time frame. - 14.48% drop in a year. Bravo :clap :bow


----------



## Ace

SHIV:THE OTHER WHITE MEAT said:


> My feeling on last night's show has been vindicated. Couldn't quite reach the standard 80% RAW retention rate. The viewers dropped much more than the demo. Strangely the demo isn't much different year to year, but both shows have shed nearly half a millions viewers in the same time frame. - 14.48% drop in a year. Bravo :clap :bow


 Why should fans care about the show when the WWE doesn't? Roman Reigns and the IC title main evented PPVs over their top title :heston



Chrome said:


> Like Raw, SDL has had quite the drop from just a year ago. They might start going under 2 million before the year is over.


 If they start to do 2m before they make the switch, I wonder if Fox will try to get out of it or move them to FS1 from the bat.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Emperor said:


> Why should fans care about the show when the WWE doesn't? Roman Reigns and the IC title main evented PPVs over their top title :heston


Does Roman have a match at Summerslam? Couldn't tell with the multiple segments, features, and the constant announcer shilling. :reigns2


----------



## Chrome

Emperor said:


> If they start to do 2m before they make the switch, I wonder if Fox will try to get out of it or move them to FS1 from the bat.


They should be starting on FS1 anyway because WWE is "kind of" a sport.


----------



## Ace

Yikes :lol

These days 2.3-2.4m is considered a good number and it was only last year they were doing 2.5-2.6 fairly often.

Didn't take long for them to establish SD as the B show and fans to pick up on it.


----------



## Skyblazer

There are many reasons for Smackdown's rating dropping so hard. 

- Randy Orton openly telling people to change the channel in the 1st segment.

- Muddying Becky's story shifting from Becky's quest to regain the Smackdown women's championship to a tease of a heel turn.

- Becky being reduced back to Charlotte's sidekick instead of being her own woman.

- Long matches on free tv usually don't draw good numbers especially in the tag team division which is notorious for being treated as a sideshow. Save the long work rate matches for ppv.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Who knew that Jinder drew?


----------



## Ace

I hope the numbers are near the 2m range.

Enough is enough.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 8/14/18 Vs 8/7/18 ):
2.189M Vs 2.197M ( - 0.008M / - 0.36% )
0.700D Vs 0.730D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.189M Vs 2.825M ( - 0.636M / 77.49% )
0.700D Vs 0.967D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 8/14/18 Vs 8/15/17 ):
2.189M Vs 2.530M ( - 0.341M / - 13.48% )
0.700D Vs 0.770D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.530M Vs 3.233M ( - 0.703M / 78.26% )
0.770D Vs 1.137D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

A glitch duplicated the prior post. Request deletion of this post.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Number was almost the same as last week which was not good then or now. The go home shows were both pretty crappy this week and shows that there is no real momentum heading into Summerslam. Being down - 13.48% from last year?


----------



## JDP2016

Slow deaths are kind of fun to watch, no?

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ace

Well deserved, the show was shit.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE




----------



## JDP2016

Weren't the drawing 2.5 million just a few months ago?


----------



## RainmakerV2

You gotta get the belt off AJ. Its not all his fault but the show definitely needs some fresh air with the belt.


----------



## Skyblazer

Smackdown's champions are either bad, outdated or boring.

AJ is great, but he has held the title for too long.

They are trying with Carmella, but this feels like another failed experiment.

The Bludgeon Brothers are just boring.

Nakamura is getting overshadowed by Randy Orton.


----------



## Malengo

That was the most pathetic Smackdown in recent memory. Sad!


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania

I was actually expecting Raw to go down for the go home, not Smackdown.
I'm over Smackdown since Bryan feuded Big Azz, so I haven't watched, but it seems impossible to produce a show with AJ, Joe, and Bryan that turns viewers off.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

This will go up but I expect it's % of RAW might decrease.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 8/21/18 Vs 8/14/18 ):
2.437M Vs 2.189M ( + 0.248M / + 11.33% )
0.770D Vs 0.700D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.437M Vs 3.096M ( - 0.659M / 78.71% )
0.770D Vs 1.060D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 11th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 8/21/18 Vs 8/22/17 ):
2.437M Vs 2.685M ( - 0.248M / - 9.24% )
0.770D Vs 0.870D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.685M Vs 3.404M ( - 0.719M / 78.88% )
0.870D Vs 1.150D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Bump of 11% from Summerslam. :bjpenn Still down 9% from last year. :bryanlol 

About 79% RAW retention. These shows are tethered together and are both following the same downward year to year arc.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

SDL has 0.248M more viewers compared to last week's episode which is the exact same number of viewers they are lesser than compared to last year's episode.

Even the SDL-RAW viewer retention is similar this year (78.71%) to last year's (78.88%).


----------



## Mordecay

The IIconics return, ratings not only increases, but it is the best rating since April, an episode that also featured the IIconics as well.

IIconics=$$$ :grin2:

Before you say anything, I know it was the bump from Summerslam. I honestly thought they were at leat going to break 2.5m, I guess I was wrong.


----------



## IndyTaker

Will SmackDown be on FX, Fox, or FS1 next year?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Both shows down 9% from last year. Their numbers in relation to each other are incredibly static.


----------



## Ace

That's not a good number whatsoever.


----------



## LiableToPay

Must be like 10 weeks straight now that Jinder fucking Mahal's reign has outdrawn Smackdown's golden boy AJ Styles. :lol. What a nonsensical decision to still keep the belt on him when Joe is so ready to finally bring some legitimacy back to the title.


----------



## Jbardo

LiableToPay said:


> Must be like 10 weeks straight now that Jinder fucking Mahal's reign has outdrawn Smackdown's golden boy AJ Styles. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />. What a nonsensical decision to still keep the belt on him when Joe is so ready to finally bring some legitimacy back to the title.


Yeah because AJ is totally the focus of the show.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 8/28/18 Vs 8/21/18 ):
2.350M Vs 2.437M ( - 0.087M / - 3.57% )
0.750D Vs 0.770D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.350M Vs 2.878M ( - 0.528M / 81.65% )
0.750D Vs 0.967D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 8/28/18 Vs 8/29/17 ):
2.350M Vs 2.455M ( - 0.105M / - 4.28% )
0.750D Vs 0.760D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.455M Vs 3.304M ( - 0.849M / 74.30% )
0.760D Vs 1.160D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 9th by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Slightly down from the previous week with the ppv bump, It had over 160,000 more viewers than two weeks ago, so it held much of the bump. 81.65% RAW retention which is a bit better than it's been doing as of late. What surprises me is that the year to year number is only off 4.28%. The show was very good last night We'll see if that helps it any next week.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I think this is pretty much SD's ceiling these days on nights that aren't the show after WM or SS or not going up against Fall TV. Eh. Is what it is.


----------



## LiableToPay

> Viewership & demo ( 8/28/18 Vs 8/29/17 ):
> 2.350M Vs 2.455M ( - 0.105M / - 4.28% )
> 0.750D Vs 0.760D


Styles STILL getting outdrawn by the legendary GOAT champ Jinder :lol 

Seriously, just end this facade at HIAC and put the title on Joe. It's more than enough embarrassment.


----------



## DammitChrist

LiableToPay said:


> .... *legendary GOAT champ Jinder :lol
> *
> It's more than enough embarrassment.


I think even saying the bolded with a straight face is the real embarrassment here :mj4


----------



## LiableToPay

DammitC said:


> I think even saying the bolded with a straight face is the real embarrassment here :mj4


Your sarcasm meter seems off pal.


----------



## DammitChrist

LiableToPay said:


> Your sarcasm meter seems off pal.


Except there's no sarcasm here.


----------



## validreasoning

Up to the end of August 2018 Smackdown has averaged 2,441,514 viewers live.

In comparison first 8 months of 2017 Smackdown averaged 2,552,229 viewers live.


----------



## Ace

*Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*



> This show had kind of a sad lesson. They drew 6,000 fans, and pushed that the dark match title match, which is there to keep the people from leaving during 205 Live, would be Charlotte defending in a three-way against Lynch and Carmella. Sometimes most people stay for the main event, sometimes a decent amount of people leave but it usually looks okay. Here, it looked like the vast majority left. While watching 205 Live, it only looked like maybe 1,500 people in the building when it looked full five minutes earlier. And you could see people leaving on camera as the show went on. This was the worst look for a WWE taping in years because even in the past when they had 3,000 for Smackdown in a big arena they could position them on one side and put tarp over the upper deck and it would look okay. Here, because it was people who were there leaving, the place looked empty, even a few rows deep.


Got this off reddit, will listen to it tonight to see the context.

As for attendance, it usually is poor this time around as you see a lot of pictures of the tarp posted on social media. But 3/4 leaving right after SD is pretty bad. Yeah many leave after the show but 75% of the audience leaving?


----------



## TD Stinger

*Re: Charlotte and Becky feud isn’t as hot as people think it is - Dave Meltzer*

Really? This how Meltzer justifies this? Attendance was going to be this bad no matter what. It was this bad the same time last year. And it would have been the same thing if they had Daniel Bryan or AJ Styles in the dark main event.

I don't care to harp on it because in the long run, does it really matter? Not really. But to act like one act is responsible to just so you can run with your narrative? The other guys on the show have nothing to do with it? Eh, I guess that is classic Meltzer.


----------



## thegockster

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*

Sounds like nobody wanted to stay around for 205, That's pretty much the case every week


----------



## Ace

TD Stinger said:


> Really? This how Meltzer justifies this? Attendance was going to be this bad no matter what. It was this bad the same time last year. And it would have been the same thing if they had Daniel Bryan or AJ Styles in the dark main event.
> 
> I don't care to harp on it because in the long run, does it really matter? Not really. But to act like one act is responsible to just so you can run with your narrative? The other guys on the show have nothing to do with it? Eh, I guess that is classic Meltzer.


 It was fake news apparently, I've edited it and will listen to the audio to verify what he said.

Ugh, apparently it may be true?

Going through the audio and will update accordingly.



> While discussing the mixed match challenge he brought up how usually AJ and Nakamura are in the main event and people stay but they had Charlotte vs Carmella vs Becky and nobody cared. Then says the feud is not as hot as it is perceived to be


----------



## thegockster

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*

It's one of the hottest feuds in the company right now, Meltzer really can't except that 205 which is wrestling orientated is not a draw


----------



## WindPhoenix

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*

Sounds like 205 live is the problem not the dark match.


----------



## Ninja Hedgehog

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*

Sounds like people just want to go home because it's getting late on a Tuesday night. I would hazard a guess that the majority in attendance have work or school in the morning.

Add in the fact that WWE is generally dull as shit these days


----------



## thegockster

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*

I had friends who went to the show, They said everyone left before the dark match, 205 is not a draw theirs a reason why they stopped the 205 tour


----------



## PrettyLush

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*

so what's your point? 205 Live doesn't draw? or the fact that the women's title isn't as hot as people believed to be? this isn't really shocking news tbh.


----------



## thegockster

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*



PrettyLush said:


> so what's your point? 205 Live doesn't draw? or the fact that the women's title isn't as hot as people believed to be? this isn't really shocking news tbh.


Not many people like 205, If this was a one off then you could debate it but this is now a weekly occurrence were 205 perform in front of an empty arena, It should be on before SD not after it, I'm sure mixed match challenge is going to replace it shortly and 205 goes on even later on a Tuesday night, 205 have no characters or stories it's just wrestling, Fans want more than that to keep them interested


----------



## ellthom

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*

205 Live needs ot go Full Sail. Or disband.

It could have been something great if Vince didn't fuck it over to begin with. Adding Enzo to the mix and burying the division just solidified peoples reason not to care myself included. It was only going to go downhill from there. They set them self up for failure that even Triple H cannot save it.


----------



## The Wood

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*

Why the fuck do they not do 205 Live before SmackDown? I've never understood that. I don't really understand why there is a 205 Live in the first place, actually. It's not a surprise that the women don't hold people either. They work hard, but you're not going to go to a show just to see them, nor are you going to stick around when they're the promoted main event.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*



thegockster said:


> I had friends who went to the show, They said everyone left after the dark match, 205 is not a draw theirs a reason why they stopped the 205 tour


 Dark match was AFTER 205...


----------



## thegockster

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*



Ace said:


> Dark match was AFTER 205...


I understand that but nobody is going to stick around for 205, You also have to consider that transport for many to go home ends at certain times, For my friends to get back to their hotel the transport stopped at 11.15 in the area and as someone already mentioned SD is more child friendly with school the next day


----------



## Adam Cool

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*

am I the only one who is surprised that the Attendance is that low?


----------



## thegockster

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*



Adam Cool said:


> am I the only one who is surprised that the Attendance is that low?


Detroit, Michigan has been bad for a few years now, Transport to and from is pretty bad, It stops to early in the night for you to stay at shows longer, Last time I went I had to leave at half 10 just to get back to our hotel


----------



## Littbarski

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*



Adam Cool said:


> am I the only one who is surprised that the Attendance is that low?


6k is what Smackdown have been averaging since 2011


----------



## Afrolatino

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*

This didn't happen when Nak, Jeff or Styles were reserved for the dark main event...


----------



## Chief of the Lynch Mob

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*

Honestly, i'm not really surprised that people leave before 205 starts. While it delivers some killer matches and it's gotten a lot better since Vince left it to HHH, it's never going to get people excited like SD quite often does. The crowd feels dead, i've been there live a few times for 205 in the UK before (Which is a hardcore crowd) and unless you have big UK names like Bate on there then people's interest tends to be pretty limited despite the great ring work. It's sad because you can miss 205 completely and feel like you're not missing all that much, despite the increase in quality it doesn't feel as much of a big deal as RAW, SD or even NXT.

As for the dark match. Charlotte v Becky v Carmella sounds like a solid match, but it's absolutely not a match that a lot of people are going to be staying around for. It's not one that promises superb wrestling and it doesn't have any names which you'd want to stick around for like AJ, Nakamura, Jeff etc. like they've had on dark matches in the past. As much as i love Becky, and as popular as she is, a dark match which has 0 real permutations on what happens on TV is not going to get a lot of people to stay. The women's feud is hot, but that match as it is isn't going to get a lot of people hyped up when people are going to know that it's missable.


----------



## Oneiros

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*



Ace said:


> Dark match was AFTER 205...


lol what's the point then? I would've gone home too.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*



J'onn J'onzz said:


> lol what's the point then? I would've gone home too.


 The dark matches are there to keep people around for 205.


----------



## Blade Runner

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*

205 hasn't drawn since Enzo and Neville left. It's hardly surprising that no one gives a shit about that show.


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!!

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*

Main event means nothing because Dark matches are mentioned maybe once or twice during the show. Even then, the dark match almost always changes. 

People are leaving because the audience is mostly children. That's how it was the last 2 times I went to a Smackdown show. Most people always leave before 205. They barely advertise 205 Live! for that matter. Meltzer is wrong.


----------



## Jedah

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*

Live audiences never gave a shit about 205 Live when Enzo and Neville were there. It never "drew."

The combination of it feeling like a minor league prison for the talent and a terrible, terrible taping spot killed it on arrival, even though Network views have gone up since Triple H took over in January.

They need to at least tape it before SD. I don't understand why they didn't do this from the beginning. If not, get it to Full Sail or just cancel it. It's sad but the only interesting talents right now are Murphy, Ali, and Gulak anyway.


----------



## Makish16

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*

Nothing moves the needle for smackdown, Cena came back for the July 4th smackdown (after 6 months gone ) and ratings went up 35k from the previous week and tickets sold 10% more and that's Cena there biggest draw 

You can switch the rosters between raw and smackdown and the attendance numbers will be the same, it has more to do with how Vince treats smackdown 

This is all happening because WWE didn't like that there top guys were leaving, so they changed there strategy and made the company the draw not any particular wrestler, this is why Reigns is the best FOTC because he's talented enough to bring in a decent crowd but isn't talented enough to leave for Hollywood 

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk


----------



## Mordecay

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*

I thought Becky was the new Daniel Bryan/CM Punk/Steve Austin, all in one :shrug

Apparently people don't care about her as much as people think.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 9/4/18 Vs 8/28/18 ):
2.319M Vs 2.350M ( - 0.031M / - 1.32% )
0.770D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.319M Vs 2.873M ( - 0.554M / 80.72% )
0.770D Vs 0.973D*

*Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 10th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 9/4/18 Vs 9/5/17 ):
2.319M Vs 2.582M ( - 0.263M / - 10.19% )
0.770D Vs 0.800D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.582M Vs 2.932M ( - 0.350M / 88.06% )
0.800D Vs 1.043D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 5th by viewership.*


----------



## validreasoning

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*



Makish16 said:


> Nothing moves the needle for smackdown, Cena came back for the July 4th smackdown (after 6 months gone ) and ratings went up 35k from the previous week and tickets sold 10% more and that's Cena there biggest draw


Cena was gone 3 months as he wrestled at Wrestlemania 33.

July 4th is worst day of year for Raw/SD to fall on as in the past viewership has fallen between 20-40% from previous week. The fact viewership went up last year was a massive coup for Cena as I bet it would have dropped well under 2 million were he not advertised to return. July 4th 2014 SD did 1.88 million same day viewers for reference, huge drop from previous week.


----------



## ElTerrible

205 killed WWE´s hottest TV show Talking Smack.

People would probably not even stay around for 205, if they were promised Rock vs. Shawn, Austin vs. Reigns with a Stone Cold squash guarantee, Bryan vs. Styles and a full nudity strip poker tournament by the ladies afterwards.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Slightly higher demo and down 1% in viewers so this week's rating is essentially the same as last week's. 81% RAW retention falls in the normal range. The only real negative is being down 10& year to year and whatever SDL did last year got 88% RAW retention which is on the high side.


----------



## Interceptor88

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*



Adam Cool said:


> am I the only one who is surprised that the Attendance is that low?


When HBK and Undertaker have most charisma than all their full time roster combined the thing that actually surprises me is how WWE is still able to make money.


----------



## Krin

*AJ didn't increase views when he became champion*

Everyone kept saying before that attendance was low on SD because of Jinder Mahal. I was at Smackdown this Tuesday and an entire section that you probably never saw on camera was closed off. I don't think AJ has done much at all to increase views, attendance or ratings. Someone here even mentioned that ratings were higher when Jinder was champion.

AJ Styles might be a fan favorite but can as I said, it doesn't look like anything has changed with attendance.


----------



## Adam Cool

*Re: AJ didn't increase views when he became champion*

because Championships don't matter any more,in the WWE that is
they are glorified Toy Belts , the only thing that makes the WWE title any better than say The US one is the history, but history isn't enough some times 

and anyone who thought that It was ONLY Jinder that was the problem last year is an idiot, who gives a shit who the fake fighting champion is when the product is shit

I would rather have a solid show with a weak champion than a terrible show with a great champion


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: AJ didn't increase views when he became champion*

Blame the product. It can never be solely attributed to one person whether good or bad. WWE does need to do more work with Smackdown especially with the FOX deal next year.


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

*Re: AJ didn't increase views when he became champion*

weak thread.


----------



## Mango13

*Re: AJ didn't increase views when he became champion*

Nothing changed with attendance because both weekly shows are fucking abysmal. I can barely make it through the shows at home sitting on my couch let alone paying $ and going to the arena to see it live.


----------



## Erik.

*Re: AJ didn't increase views when he became champion*

Does anyone?


----------



## LiableToPay

*Re: AJ didn't increase views when he became champion*

On the contrary, he has tanked it :lol. I've been following the ratings for a while now and I'm pretty sure it's about 15 weeks straight that last year's corresponding ratings with Jinder as champion have outdrawn ratings of Styles' reign this year. Dreadful champion and main eventer. Joe should be taking the title off this failure ASAP.


----------



## LiableToPay

> Viewership & demo ( 9/4/18 Vs 9/5/17 ):
> 2.319M Vs 2.582M ( - 0.263M / - 10.19% )
> 0.770D Vs 0.800D


AAAND the trend continues. This joke of a champion continues to be outdrawn by a fucking experiment from last year for months straight now. :lol. What an embarrassment.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AJ didn't increase views when he became champion*

Nobody draws in a major way whether it be Vince golden boys, HHH guy's, or the hardcore fan favorites. A lot of hardcore fans just falsely believe ratings and attendance will go up if their favorite is on top. 
Truthfully ratings and attendance will continue to fall until the general public is infatuated with wrestling again.


----------



## IndyTaker

*Re: AJ didn't increase views when he became champion*

It proves that AJ isn't a draw as champ. That's not an insult as most wrestlers today can't increase ratings but people over hyped AJ.


----------



## Krin

LiableToPay said:


> On the contrary, he has tanked it <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />. I've been following the ratings for a while now and I'm pretty sure it's about 15 weeks straight that last year's corresponding ratings with Jinder as champion have outdrawn ratings of Styles' reign this year. Dreadful champion and main eventer. Joe should be taking the title off this failure ASAP.


I just want to highlight this because this time last year people were losing their shit about Mahal as champion and that he was killing the show, killing attendance, killing ratings, etc and in reality he ended up outdrawing AJ Styles.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: AJ didn't increase views when he became champion*

Is there any truth to the rumor that the AJ stands for Almost Jinder?


----------



## DammitChrist

Mordecay said:


> I thought Becky was the new Daniel Bryan/CM Punk/Steve Austin, all in one :shrug
> 
> Apparently people don't care about her as much as people think.


Becky Lynch was literally on the show for a minute :lol



LiableToPay said:


> On the contrary, he has tanked it :lol. I've been following the ratings for a while now and I'm pretty sure it's about 15 weeks straight that last year's corresponding ratings with Jinder as champion have outdrawn ratings of Styles' reign this year. Dreadful champion and main eventer. Joe should be taking the title off this failure ASAP.


Okay, so if/when Samoa Joe wins the WWE title and doesn't move the ratings up for multiple weeks, I fully expect you to call him a "dreadful main-eventer/failure" according to your embarrassing logic :mj4

AJ Styles is one of the most over talents they have on Smackdown. If he is unable to keep viewers from quitting on the product, then just about anyone else on the blue brand will have that same fate (unless anything major happens on the show).


----------



## Sincere

*Re: Smackdown’s attendance was around 6000 and only 1500 stayed around for 205 live*



DammitC said:


> Becky Lynch was literally on the show for a minute :lol


Don't feed the trolls.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The rating was virtually identical to last week. I do wonder what happens when the fall tv season begins because Tuesday is a more watched night than even Monday.


----------



## Krin

RapShepard said:


> Nobody draws in a major way whether it be Vince golden boys, HHH guy's, or the hardcore fan favorites. A lot of hardcore fans just falsely believe ratings and attendance will go up if their favorite is on top.
> Truthfully ratings and attendance will continue to fall until the general public is infatuated with wrestling again.


But when Jinder was champion, people were definitely blaming him as one of the main reasons why ratings and ticket sales are dwindling. I notice with AJ, people are much more forgiving even though he's drawing less than Jinder. Not directed at you, just the hypocrisy of fans.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Krin said:


> But when Jinder was champion, people were definitely blaming him as one of the main reasons why ratings and ticket sales are dwindling. I notice with AJ, people are much more forgiving even though he's drawing less than Jinder. Not directed at you, just the hypocrisy of fans.


You are actually correct about that. Jinder was being unfairly blamed for a declining product just as AJ is being now.


----------



## Krin

SHIV:THE OTHER WHITE MEAT said:


> Krin said:
> 
> 
> 
> But when Jinder was champion, people were definitely blaming him as one of the main reasons why ratings and ticket sales are dwindling. I notice with AJ, people are much more forgiving even though he's drawing less than Jinder. Not directed at you, just the hypocrisy of fans.
> 
> 
> 
> You are actually correct about that. Jinder was being unfairly blamed for a declining product just as AJ is being now.
Click to expand...

No, that isn't what I said. Yes, Jinder was being unfairly blamed for a declining product. Other than maybe two or three people, AJ drawing less has been almost completely unmentioned by the IWC. It hasn't recieved nearly as much attention or coverage.

All across the IWC, YouTube, forums, etc, people were acting like Jinder being champion was disastrous in every way possible. Now the golden favorite, AJ Styles is drawing less and you barely see even a mention about it because it doesn't fit the narrative people wanted to argue. It's just crazy to me how hypocritical and biased that is.


----------



## Mordecay

DammitC said:


> Becky Lynch was literally on the show for a minute :lol


I am not blaming her for the ratings, that post was a response to another thread that got merged with this one.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I would kill for a minute with Becky. :trips8


----------



## Ace

SHIV:THE OTHER WHITE MEAT said:


> You are actually correct about that. Jinder was being unfairly blamed for a declining product just as AJ is being now.


Yes, because it's a reach to think a jobber winning the world title would hurt business.

Funnily enough, back then the US championship/Shane was taking the top spot of SD over Jinder like Bryan is now.


----------



## Ace

Krin said:


> I just want to highlight this because this time last year people were losing their shit about Mahal as champion and that he was killing the show, killing attendance, killing ratings, etc and in reality he ended up outdrawing AJ Styles.


AJ has main evented one SD since WM, he's barely on the show these days yet you're trying to pin it on the WWE champion? AJ isn't even treated as the top star of SD :lol

Look at how much time he's gotten this month compared to Roman or Bryan.

Hell, Roman had more time on Raw the other week than AJ or Joe combined have had since Summerslam.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Ace said:


> Yes, because it's a reach to think a jobber winning the world title would hurt business.
> 
> Funnily enough, back then the US championship/Shane was taking the top spot of SD over Jinder like Bryan is now.


I just don't believe in assigning blame to one person. It's primarily on the writers creating a lack of interesting stories.


----------



## Ace

SHIV:THE OTHER WHITE MEAT said:


> I just don't believe in assigning blame to one person. It's primarily on the writers creating a lack of interesting stories.


Even then is it not a huge reach to blame this on a world champion who is neither the top star of the show or even there? There's weeks he's literally interviewed for a minute backstage to promote his match which ends up being in the first half of the PPV.

This is someone who has been midcarding on PPVs below the IC title and Roman Reigns. Below Bryan and Charlotte on SD. His segments are in random slots, he's never given the main event, opener or change between hrs slot.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Ace said:


> Even then is it not a huge reach to blame this on a world champion who is neither the top star of the show or even there? There's weeks he's literally interviewed for a minute backstage to promote his match which ends up being in the first half of the PPV.
> 
> This is someone who has been midcarding on PPVs below the IC title and Roman Reigns. Below Bryan and Charlotte on SD. His segments are in random slots, he's never given the main event, opener or change between hrs slot.



I don't blame AJ at all. If we had the old quarter hour breakdowns we could at least see which segments are doing better and which turn off viewers. As it stands, the rating is a two hour one and in effect it's on everyone. Writers hold the vast majority of culpability to me.

Smackdown's ratings have been fairly stable for a few weeks now which is progress of a sort. I feared they were dropping below 2M, but they staved it off. Guess there's always time for that when the heavy hitters of Tuesday night start their new seasons. :trolldog


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

Tuesday’s Smackdown was atrocious


----------



## Wildcat410

Krin said:


> No, that isn't what I said. Yes, Jinder was being unfairly blamed for a declining product. Other than maybe two or three people, AJ drawing less has been almost completely unmentioned by the IWC. It hasn't recieved nearly as much attention or coverage.
> 
> All across the IWC, YouTube, forums, etc, people were acting like Jinder being champion was disastrous in every way possible. Now the golden favorite, AJ Styles is drawing less and *you barely see even a mention about it because it doesn't fit the narrative people wanted to argue. It's just crazy to me how hypocritical and biased that is.*


It's almost always been that way. It's not just a thing surrounding AJ. Though I get what you mean overall.

Side note, but I don't know why anyone would be looking to Styles to bump numbers bigly anyway. RapShep is right in that no one really moves the bar these days. Nor would anyone, no matter how " IWC friendly " they could be. Numbers moving markedly partly hinge on things the E can't even control. Like the US middle and working classes having another economic boon, and not living paycheck to paycheck.

Furthermore, Styles ( and everyone else then) was outdrawn in 2009 TNA segment ratings by The Beautiful People. And he was practically an institution in TNA. He was never going to be another Hogan, Austin, or even Bryan at his most crowd reaction intense. 

Enjoy him for what he is. With the knowledge that AJ is entering, if not already in, the tail end of a HOF career. In terms of ushering in a new era, it was never going to be more than that. But that is alright.


----------



## Slyfox

Orton vs Jeff Hardy should be wwe championship feud their feud is the most interesting atm AJ title reign has been dragged for far too long.


----------



## anirioc

*Neither AJ Styles nor Daniel Bryan or Samoa Joe are draws at all. What's wrong?*

The three of them are tremendous pro wrestlers and legit stars but neither of them is a draw. Ratings are worse now that when Jinder was champion..what is lacking about those guys? not only they are great but they were also supposed to be extremely well liked by the fans everywhere, still they dont draw at all. What is happening? AJ Styles is one if not the best wrestler in the last 5 years, Bryan is one of the hottest babyfaces ever Joe is a heel monster.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: Neither AJ Styles nor Daniel Bryan or Samoa Joe are draws at all. What's wrong?*

No one is a draw on either brand and both shows are down year to year which continues a downward trend. Blame the crap product that is WWE.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Neither AJ Styles nor Daniel Bryan or Samoa Joe are draws at all. What's wrong?*

You mean the guy who is midcarding PPVs and SDs as world champion cannot draw? 

I am stunned, absolutely gobsmacked at this revelation.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: Neither AJ Styles nor Daniel Bryan or Samoa Joe are draws at all. What's wrong?*

PS

This will be moved to the Ratings Thread.


----------



## anirioc

Ace said:


> You mean the guy who is midcarding PPVs as world champion cannot draw?
> 
> I am stunned, absolutely gobsmacked at this revelation.


What kind of BS is that? CM Punk was mirdcarding PPVs as World Champion and he was a super hot draw...your point is not valid.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Neither AJ Styles nor Daniel Bryan or Samoa Joe are draws at all. What's wrong?*



anirioc said:


> What kind of BS is that? CM Punk was mirdcarding PPVs as World Champion and he was a super hot draw...your point is not valid.


 LMAO Punk was unfairly getting blamed for ratings being poor when Cena was headlining over him.

I'm a Punk fan but he never drew ratings either, none of the new guys do. The only ones who actually move the needle in anyway are Rock, Brock, Cena, Taker and HHH. Basically guys who they've booked to be important over the years and are recognizable names by casuals and lapsed fans, which makes sense.

Raw and SD have decreasing average ratings which has small fluctuations weekly depending on who you have on the show, season, competition etc. This average is made up of hardcore fans who watch weekly regardless of who is on the show, this is decreasing with fans losing interest in the product. Outside Rock, there is no real huge ratings mover, and even if Rock was around every week his impact on ratings would decline the more and more he appeared on the show until the point he's making little to no difference.

As for AJ, are you really going to tune in to watch world champions who are midcarding? The company themselves are telling you they're not important or big stars that you should be paying attention to. This is all quite clear cut to see. The problem is when the company treat you as a big deal and put you over the big stars and you're not able to do a thing.

It's strange to see you have a go at AJ when he's having to put up with the same shit Punk had to during his reign. You'd think being a Punk fan, you'd be more sympathetic to a reign which is being treated with the same disrespect.


----------



## Chrome

*Re: Neither AJ Styles nor Daniel Bryan or Samoa Joe are draws at all. What's wrong?*



SHIV:THE OTHER WHITE MEAT said:


> No one is a draw on either brand and both shows are down year to year which continues a downward trend. Blame the crap product that is WWE.


Pretty much. If you flip Mahal and Styles' title reigns, the same thing occurs. It's the brand that draws, and it's not much of a draw these days.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: Neither AJ Styles nor Daniel Bryan or Samoa Joe are draws at all. What's wrong?*



Chrome said:


> Pretty much. If you flip Mahal and Styles' title reigns, the same thing occurs. It's the brand that draws, and it's not much of a draw these days.


I'd go as far as to say that if you swapped rosters, the ratings wouldn't be appreciably different. RAW is the name brand. Smackdown is the red headed stepchild. They def. don't get prioritized. Isn't Taker a Smackdown guy but he is appearing on RAW?


----------



## GimmeABreakJess

God I have huge crush on Asuka lol...wish they were using her better since moving her to main roster.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 9/11/18 Vs 9/4/18 ):
2.229M Vs 2.319M ( - 0.090M / - 3.88% )
0.720D Vs 0.770D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.229M Vs 2.740M ( - 0.511M / 81.35% )
0.720D Vs 0.893D*

*Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 9/11/18 Vs 9/12/17 ):
2.229M Vs 2.754M ( - 0.525M / - 19.06% )
0.720D Vs 0.880D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.754M Vs 2.903M ( - 0.149M / 94.87% )
0.880D Vs 0.990D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 2nd by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Looks like that "compelling" main event lost viewers this week. Still was 81.35% of RAW because it fell too. Don't know what Smackdown presented a year ago because it was 19.06% higher than this one and was an unusually high 94.87% of RAW that week. I wonder how much the advent of the new tv season hurts SDL?


----------



## Ace

Deserved.


----------



## Mordecay

No IIconics, no buys


----------



## Ace

I'm sure the collective 5 mins AJ and Joe were on the show were to blame for this poor rating.


----------



## LA Park

SHIV:THE OTHER WHITE MEAT said:


> Looks like that "compelling" main event lost viewers this week. Still was 81.35% of RAW because it fell too. Don't know what Smackdown presented a year ago because it was 19.06% higher than this one and was an unusually high 94.87% of RAW that week. I wonder how much the advent of the new tv season hurts SDL?


Last year's SD had 3 title matches and KO attacking Vince.


----------



## chronoxiong

That's what you deserve for letting Brie fucken Bella and Mayse main event a show. And the match sucked.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

LA Park said:


> Last year's SD had 3 title matches and KO attacking Vince.


Makes sense. Vince is still :vince$


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

Mordecay said:


> No IIconics, no buys


Surely you must be trolling? They absolutely suck and are very cringeworthy on the mic. Anyways, FOX must be regretting paying for this crap :lol


----------



## Mordecay

deathvalleydriver2 said:


> Surely you must be trolling? They absolutely suck and are very cringeworthy on the mic. Anyways, FOX must be regretting paying for this crap :lol


They make as much difference on the ratings as any of the top guys or girls, since no one is a ratings draw these days, so, since Peyton is my favorite, No IIconics, no buys.


----------



## tducey

I usually don't have issue with anyone in the WWE but the Ilconics are awful. No idea what makes them so endearing; Peyton's pretty I guess but other than that they're extremely cringeworthy.


----------



## AlternateDemise

anirioc said:


> What kind of BS is that? CM Punk was mirdcarding PPVs as World Champion and he was a super hot draw...your point is not valid.


Not sure where you're getting your facts from because this is completely false.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

I actually like the move to Friday nights. It will still be live. Watching wrestling on back to back days is too much.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The Boy Wonder said:


> I actually like the move to Friday nights. It will still be live. Watching wrestling on back to back days is too much.


That's cool to see. You can tell that WWE is going to hype this tremendously and watching five hours of WWE in consecutive days is way too draining.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Going to predict a slight ppv bump but since RAW fell, SDL could too.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

2.281 million.

These show after PPV numbers these days..

:deandre


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 9/18/18 Vs 9/11/18 ):
2.281M Vs 2.229M ( + 0.052M / + 2.33% )
0.780D Vs 0.720D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.281M Vs 2.672M ( - 0.391M / 85.37% )
0.780D Vs 0.903D*

*Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 8th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 9/18/18 Vs 9/19/17 ):
2.281M Vs 2.510M ( - 0.229M / - 9.12% )
0.780D Vs 0.740D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.510M Vs 2.833M ( - 0.323M / 88.60% )
0.740D Vs 0.923D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*


----------



## Mordecay

My usual post of every week:

This week's show had the IIconics, the ratings increased compared to last week, when they weren't on the show

IIconics=Ratings 

:grin2:


----------



## JDP2016

When the highlight of the show is a women's promo segment, it deserves bad numbers.

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

It's unclear how much the new fall tv season will hurt them as I don't know how much of a crossover audience there is.


----------



## LiableToPay

I think what needs to be realized here is that this guy, AJ Styles, has held the title for 300+ days straight and STILL can't even draw more than what a fucking experiment in Jinder Mahal did last year. :lol. To call it embarrassing at this point would be an understatement. You got a guy like Samoa Joe who is better at just about every facet of professional wrestling being compromised for months now only so that this absolute FAILURE of a champion can continue his already dead and buried reign. It's baffling.


----------



## Ace

LiableToPay said:


> I think what needs to be realized here is that this guy, AJ Styles, has held the title for 300+ days straight and STILL can't even draw more than what a fucking experiment in Jinder Mahal did last year. :lol. To call it embarrassing at this point would be an understatement. You got a guy like Samoa Joe who is better at just about every facet of professional wrestling being compromised for months now only so that this absolute FAILURE of a champion can continue his already dead and buried reign. It's baffling.


 2.4m unkout


----------



## LiableToPay

Ace said:


> 2.4m unkout


Yeah, that's the number AJ Styles wishes he could be drawing right now. 

But sadly, his real mission seems to be to take SD to the 1.9s. :lol


----------



## Ace

LiableToPay said:


> Yeah, that's the number AJ Styles wishes he could be drawing right now.
> 
> But sadly, his real mission seems to be to take SD to the 1.9s. :lol


 Raw is always going to drop more, only time that may change is when SD moves to a bigger network (Fox) or if they have something major (1000th ep, PPV special show).

Funnily enough, they did AJ vs Cena for the Fox executives who were attendance.

They could have put anyone in there, but they chose AJ and Cena to sell them on the product.

Drawing 2.4m IN A TITLE DEFENSE is appalling and all on Roman. This was advertised throughout the show and that was his hour. He is their guy and booked above everyone else, he has zero excuse for failing that bad. He's unquestionably the top guy in the company and he's drawing fuck all in world title defenses against shit tier NFL matches.

Anyone know where 2.4m is in regards to the lowest 3rd hrs ever? I don't think holiday eps have been that low either and this was right off the PPV with Brock fucking Roman and Braun up.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

There are only three things certain in this life: death, taxes, and WWE ratings suck. :heston


----------



## DammitChrist

LiableToPay said:


> I think what needs to be realized here is that this guy, AJ Styles, has held the title for 300+ days straight and STILL can't even draw more than what a fucking experiment in Jinder Mahal did last year. :lol. To call it embarrassing at this point would be an understatement. You got a guy like Samoa Joe who is better at just about every facet of professional wrestling being compromised for months now only so that this absolute FAILURE of a champion can continue his already dead and buried reign. It's baffling.


How about that terrible third hour your favorite was a part of in that Raw main-event despite receiving the biggest spotlight that night and despite being advertised throughout the whole show? :ha

It’s funny how you were nowhere to be found in the Raw ratings thread to give him the blame too :mj4


----------



## Slyfox

I am not Jinder fan but its so good to know he was doing so well as champion compared to current TRASH champion.


----------



## DammitChrist

Slyfox said:


> I am not Jinder fan but its so good to know he was doing so well as champion compared to current TRASH champion.


Yep, Jinder Mahal was doing “so well” as champion. That’s exactly why they decided to take the world title away at the last moment and removed him from the Survivor Series card altogether because of his horrible run unk2

The fact that they made him a comical lower-midcarder on Raw already despite being a former WWE Champion says a lot actually.


----------



## tducey

Mahal was a terrible champ. I've been watching for 27 yrs. and think he's among the worst champs ever.


----------



## Slyfox

DammitC said:


> Yep, Jinder Mahal was doing “so well” as champion. That’s exactly why they decided to take the world title at the last moment and removed him from the Survivor Series card altogether because of his horrible run unk2
> 
> The fact that they made him a comical lower-midcarder on Raw already despite being a former WWE Champion says a lot actually.


Yeah they ended the Mahal failed experiment and the put the belt on a bigger failure :lol
If Jinder was failure as champion Styles is a bigger failure as far a ratings is concerned.
What an embarrasment!


----------



## shadows123

Slyfox said:


> Yeah they ended the Mahal failed experiment and the put the belt on a bigger failure :lol
> If Jinder was failure as champion Styles is a bigger failure as far a ratings is concerned.
> What an embarrasment!


I think thats probably one of the stupidest comment i've heard..Jinder Mahal was not world champion material, he was mid card level at best..I am sure he has worked his ass off to get where he is and improved a lot..but being a champ instead of AJ styles, a top 10-30 excellent in-ring wrestlers of all time is probably not right...And coming to ratings, well no one in current wwe is a draw because wwe itself is not a draw.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

RAW and Smackdown are both declining pretty much proportionally to each other. The drop is product wide. You can pencil in SDL at around 80% of RAW viewers +/- a few points in either direction each week. If Jinder came back to Smackdown the ratings would not magically return to last year. Keep in mind last year was lower than the year before it. The Fox version of SDL should increase but that's a year away.


----------



## DammitChrist

Yea, I’m definitely expecting the Smackdown ratings to increase next year with the channel moving over to Fox no matter who’s the champion.


----------



## shadows123

DammitC said:


> Yea, I’m definitely expecting the Smackdown ratings to increase next year with the channel moving over to Fox no matter who’s the champion.


well then expect Vince to move Roman to smackdown and then for everyone to claim the "big dog" bought about this


----------



## DammitChrist

shadows123 said:


> well then expect Vince to move Roman to smackdown and then for everyone to claim the "big dog" bought about this


Sadly, I wouldn’t be surprised if that actually happened :lol

No worries, if that does end up occurring, then we will both know the true reason why those numbers increased; which is the new TV deal.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

DammitC said:


> Sadly, I wouldn’t be surprised if that actually happened :lol
> 
> No worries, if that does end up occurring, then we will both know the true reason why those numbers increased; which is the new TV deal.


They will stack SDL because a network deal brings more eyeballs plus Fox will have Thursday Night Football and will def. be advertising it.


----------



## DammitChrist

BAD SHIV RISING said:


> They will stack SDL because a network deal brings more eyeballs plus Fox will have Thursday Night Football and will def. be advertising it.


Yea, I have a good feeling they'll send over some big names over to Smackdown.

What do you think will happen to Raw though? Will there be little credible names left, or do you think they will try to balance that roster? Will Smackdown becoming a bigger priority make Raw the more watchable show automatically, or will both shows end up sucking in quality?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

DammitC said:


> Yea, I have a good feeling they'll send over some big names over to Smackdown.
> 
> What do you think will happen to Raw though? Will there be little credible names left, or do you think they will try to balance that roster? Will Smackdown becoming a bigger priority make Raw the more watchable show automatically, or will both shows end up sucking in quality?


I think they both aren't that good right now but Smackdown is better. I think they will shakeup the rosters and RAW will still have big names, but get the short end of the stick. It should still do fine though because the name RAW is what draws. I suppose they could also end the brand split and have the "big names" primarily appear on Smackdown and make RAW the home of the mid card. Smackdown will be the priority though because WWE will try their best to make sure they get their deal renewed when the contract is up


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Some, if not all, of the networks are returning to new programming this Tuesday. It will be interesting to see how adversely affected Smackdown is by the renewed competition.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Will laugh my ass off if SD beats the Roman RAIDS show this week. Really pulling for it this week. It needs to happen.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Showstopper said:


> Will laugh my ass off if SD beats the Roman RAIDS show this week. Really pulling for it this week. It needs to happen.


Isn't that usually followed by RAW getting all of SDL talent in an unfair trade the following week?


----------



## WindPhoenix

I hope that this week's show does well, but I have doubts given how terrible the Raw rating was.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

SD won't beat Raw this week. They generally hover in that 2.1-2.3 million range. I'm expecting in the low 2 mil, maybe even just under 2 mil.


----------



## Ace

NCIS back and poor Raw rating, I wont be surprised with 2m or below.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Look for Smackdown to be in the range they always are of RAW. Getting above 90% would be cool, but I'll believe it hen I see it.

2.193M for the night. :bjpenn

So it dropped with increased competition but closed the gap on RAW.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 9/25/18 Vs 9/18/18 ):
2.193M Vs 2.281M ( - 0.088M / - 3.86% )
0.720D Vs 0.780D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.193M Vs 2.350M ( - 0.157M / 93.32% )
0.720D Vs 0.830D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 9/25/18 Vs 9/26/17 ):
2.193M Vs 2.542M ( - 0.349M / - 13.73% )
0.720D Vs 0.820D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.542M Vs 2.923M ( - 0.381M / 86.97% )
0.820D Vs 0.987D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 4th by viewership.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Fuck. Wanted them to win. Goes to show, there's no competition like the NFL.


----------



## Sincere

That's still really close. I actually expected SD would do worse than that based on Raw's ratings this week.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

I'd be curious as to what would happen if Smackdown and Raw switched nights (keeping their respective normal hours). We know the wrestlers don't draw anymore, but is it the brand or is it the order they take place in during the week that leads to more viewers?

In any event, Smackdown 1000 is really the only chance to beat Raw for a week. Although they left this week's show with two storylines on a cliff hanger that has us waiting to see what happens... so it'll be interesting if that helps any.


----------



## Ace

Surprised it didn't do a lot worse :bjpenn

NCIS does huge numbers.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

93.3% RAW retention is the highest it has been in a long time. In the last 3 weeks, it has gone from 81 to 85 to 93% this week. I expect it back in the high 70's low 80's next week. It also proves that show quality is trumped by being the defacto RAW Hours 4&5 because this particular edition of Smackdown murdered RAW this week.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

#BadNewsSanta said:


> In any event, Smackdown 1000 is really the only chance to beat Raw for a week. Although they left this week's show with two storylines on a cliff hanger that has us waiting to see what happens... so it'll be interesting if that helps any.


What do you think the viewership will be for SD 1000? RAW 25 got 4,500,000 million viewers.


----------



## Kratosx23

The Boy Wonder said:


> What do you think the viewership will be for SD 1000? RAW 25 got 4,500,000 million viewers.


Half of that.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I wonder if SD 1000 can even beat RAW Hour 3 that week?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Boy Wonder said:


> What do you think the viewership will be for SD 1000? RAW 25 got 4,500,000 million viewers.


My guess is low 3 millions.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

#1 cable show in the demo. :bjpenn


----------



## Mordecay

BAD SHIV RISING said:


> #1 cable show in the demo. :bjpenn


IIconics=Ratings


----------



## chronoxiong

Impressive retention for Smackdown this week. Goes to show that people are still tuning into this show and are tuning out of RAW. Really curious to see how Smackdown #1000 will do now.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

> Attendance at this Tuesday’s SmackDown wasn’t great. There were said to be a lot of empty seats on the hard camera side of Pepsi Center, but WWE officials are reportedly not concerned.


WWE not concerned? Good grief. That Saudi money is making them delusional. But regarding SD I think it hurts the show's ratings and attendance that they are on the night after RAW. It's too much product. I think the attendance and ratings for SD will improve when they move to Friday nights.


----------



## JDP2016

The Boy Wonder said:


> WWE not concerned? Good grief. That Saudi money is making them delusional. But regarding SD I think it hurts the show's ratings and attendance that they are on the night after RAW. It's too much product. I think the attendance and ratings for SD will improve when they move to Friday nights.


You think people are gonna spend their Friday nights watching WWE?

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## validreasoning

JDP2016 said:


> You think people are gonna spend their Friday nights watching WWE?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


SD aired on Friday night for a decade from 2005 to 2015.

It's funny SD had alot more older men 50+ watching on Friday nights than any other demo. When they moved to Thursday and then Tuesday they seemed to lose many of them


----------



## Slyfox

So Smackdown cant even beat Raw low ratings.
Pathetic.
Cant wait to see what happens when SD moves to friday nights and still keep the belt on the failure.


----------



## DammitChrist

It almost feels like this is the same guy who made that thread in the rants section :hmmm


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Thursday Night Football on Fox opened larger than it had been on CBS. SDL should benefit from commercial exposure on that show next year.


----------



## Ace

Hope the show does a poor number, the company deserves it for their god awful booking.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Anxiously awaiting the final number. Hour 3 might be in trouble.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 10/2/18 Vs 9/25/18 ):
2.095M Vs 2.193M ( - 0.098M / - 4.47% )
0.690D Vs 0.720D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.095M Vs 2.302M ( - 0.207M / 91.01% )
0.690D Vs 0.763D*

*Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 10th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 10/2/18 Vs 10/3/17 ):
2.095M Vs 2.323M ( - 0.228M / - 9.81% )
0.690D Vs 0.740D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.323M Vs 2.773M ( - 0.450M / 83.77% )
0.740D Vs 0.927D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 9th by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

:woo:woo:woo:dance:dance:dance

Hour 3 has fallen! :fuckyeah :heston


----------



## Ace

:ha

Deserved, let's hope it gets below 2m so Fox cancels their deal.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

SDL has been decreasing the last two weeks, only at a slower pace than RAW. Let's hear it for Smackdown. They are bleeding out less quickly than RAW. :mark

It did manage to exceed 90% of RAW retention for consecutive weeks which I cannot really happening before. No way Hour 3 does the job again.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Can’t even beat Raw this week? Yikes!


----------



## JDP2016

Becky is the only bright spot. Everything else is just :meh:

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## llj

There is no one full timer who can move the needle on these programs anymore. It doesn't really matter who you push anymore. They could have Tye Dillinger as WWE champion and Billie Kay as Smackdown women's champ currently and the numbers would very likely be exactly the same. The WWE has time and again taken people who were red hot and used them to put over the usual suspects who may or may not be better draws than the ones they are sacrificing, so clearly they don't "really" care that much.

The WWE has effectively made it so that the core audience will still come back no matter what, and the casual TV viewers bleeding out will be recouped through other avenues of cash flow.

It's unfortunate that they've become less experimental nowadays because clearly all the usual suspects they focus on mostly on aren't really moving the needle anyway and likely almost any random joe or jill they megapush wouldn't make any worse a difference over their regular favoured stars.

As far as Smackdown bleeding less, it's most likely because of the NFL on Mondays.


----------



## Kratosx23

Ace said:


> :ha
> 
> Deserved, let's hope it gets below 2m so Fox cancels their deal.


The threat of cancellation once the Fox deal starts is the only chance this product has. We can't afford that.


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

This is amazing :lol I hope it keeps falling because it’s much deserved


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I wonder if Smackdown 1000 can at least repeat the victory over Hour 3 or somehow beat the whole show. :trips8


----------



## llj

Has Smackdown really been as good as smarks have been saying? Or are they just happy that Becky is getting pushed and Joe is getting heel time?

When you break it down, you have basically this as the main program:

Randy Orton feuding with Tye Dillinger
Nakamura doing nothing with the US title
Asuka (with Naomi!) feuding with the IIconics
Joe and AJ doing promos every week and neither of them actually wrestling anymore
Becky beating down Charlotte every week until this week
Bryan feuding with Miz

With the exception of Bryan, you have a bunch of good wrestlers mostly not wrestling, and/or established stars feuding with people who have reps as jobbers and desperately trying to make them relevant. The only "feud" that is occurring between players with equal status and build is R-Truth and Carmella and Almas/Zelina. Most of the other feuds is just a bunch of smack talk every week stalling until the next PPV with barely any in-ring action anymore between major stars.

It's not as bad as RAW, but people saying this is the best it's been since 2016 might be misremembering how much more action and unpredictability there was in 2016 compared to now, and how many more people on the program seemed to be legit contenders all the time compared to now, in both the men's and women's divisions of the time. Every week there seemed to be a Dean Ambrose or AJ Styles match as the main event of the night. Those were the top 2 guys on the program and they wrestled nearly every single week. In the midcard you had pre-geek KO, Ziggler, Jericho, Miz, Bray, Del Rio, Cena--all guys with good resumes and credibility (at the time) behind them that made them always possible contenders in many fans' eyes. Amazingly, it didn't feel like they repeated matchups a lot on TV either. On the women's side, nearly every single woman on the program felt like they had a legitimate shot at winning the newly introduced Smackdown women's title, and the fact that many of them eventually did win it made it even more like Smackdown truly was the "Land of Opportunity".

Smackdown today is a much thinner roster than it was in 2016 in terms of star power, and instead of trying to really cement the credibility of popular newcomers to the brand like Nakamura, Joe and Asuka by letting them get a rub with the main titles, they just double down on known names like AJ holding the title for 84 years and more women's feuds with Charlotte constantly in the title picture, or using popular names who need more momentum to try to make barely used unknowns relevant.

Hell, if you're not going to do anything with the US Title on Nakamura, you might as well give the belt to the women's division to do something with it.


----------



## JDP2016

llj said:


> There is no one full timer who can move the needle on these programs anymore. It doesn't really matter who you push anymore. They could have Tye Dillinger as WWE champion and Billie Kay as Smackdown women's champ currently and the numbers would very likely be exactly the same. *The WWE has time and again taken people who were red hot and used them to put over the usual suspects who may or may not be better draws than the ones they are sacrificing, so clearly they don't "really" care that much.*
> 
> The WWE has effectively made it so that the core audience will still come back no matter what, and the casual TV viewers bleeding out will be recouped through other avenues of cash flow.
> 
> It's unfortunate that they've become less experimental nowadays because clearly all the usual suspects they focus on mostly on aren't really moving the needle anyway and likely almost any random joe or jill they megapush wouldn't make any worse a difference over their regular favoured stars.
> 
> As far as Smackdown bleeding less, it's most likely because of the NFL on Mondays.


There is no "may or may not be better draws" because if they were better draws then it wouldn't be an issue. 


Tyrion Lannister said:


> The threat of cancellation once the Fox deal starts is the only chance this product has. We can't afford that.


I've been told the shows on Fox do even less numbers than RAW and SDL.



llj said:


> Has Smackdown really been as good as smarks have been saying? Or are they just happy that Becky is getting pushed and Joe is getting heel time?


I think it's more of the later. Smackdown has been downright boring at times but yeah the IWC is okay with it as long as Becky has the title just like they were happy when AJ got the title from Jinder last year even though *THAT* didn't boost ratings too much either. Both shows are trash at the moment but Smackdown has champions who are well liked, Becky and AJ versus RAW who has Roman and Ronda.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Smackdown Live ratings were actually higher last year than they are this year, particularly the month of September. Last year the show was focused around Shane/KO. Shane was drawing apparently.


----------



## Ace

llj said:


> Has Smackdown really been as good as smarks have been saying? Or are they just happy that Becky is getting pushed and Joe is getting heel time?
> 
> When you break it down, you have basically this as the main program:
> 
> Randy Orton feuding with Tye Dillinger
> Nakamura doing nothing with the US title
> Asuka (with Naomi!) feuding with the IIconics
> Joe and AJ doing promos every week and neither of them actually wrestling anymore
> Becky beating down Charlotte every week until this week
> Bryan feuding with Miz
> 
> With the exception of Bryan, you have a bunch of good wrestlers mostly not wrestling, and/or established stars feuding with people who have reps as jobbers and desperately trying to make them relevant. The only "feud" that is occurring between players with equal status and build is R-Truth and Carmella and Almas/Zelina. Most of the other feuds is just a bunch of smack talk every week stalling until the next PPV with barely any in-ring action anymore between major stars.
> 
> It's not as bad as RAW, but people saying this is the best it's been since 2016 might be misremembering how much more action and unpredictability there was in 2016 compared to now, and how many more people on the program seemed to be legit contenders all the time compared to now, in both the men's and women's divisions of the time. Every week there seemed to be a Dean Ambrose or AJ Styles match as the main event of the night. Those were the top 2 guys on the program and they wrestled nearly every single week. In the midcard you had pre-geek KO, Ziggler, Jericho, Miz, Bray, Del Rio, Cena--all guys with good resumes and credibility (at the time) behind them that made them always possible contenders in many fans' eyes. Amazingly, it didn't feel like they repeated matchups a lot on TV either. On the women's side, nearly every single woman on the program felt like they had a legitimate shot at winning the newly introduced Smackdown women's title, and the fact that many of them eventually did win it made it even more like Smackdown truly was the "Land of Opportunity".
> 
> Smackdown today is a much thinner roster than it was in 2016 in terms of star power, and instead of trying to really cement the credibility of popular newcomers to the brand like Nakamura, Joe and Asuka by letting them get a rub with the main titles, they just double down on known names like AJ holding the title for 84 years and more women's feuds with Charlotte constantly in the title picture, or using popular names who need more momentum to try to make barely used unknowns relevant.
> 
> Hell, if you're not going to do anything with the US Title on Nakamura, you might as well give the belt to the women's division to do something with it.


 Nah, SD is still pretty shit. It's just compared to Raw it looks like a emmy caliber show.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Gotta think the downward ratings trend will continue. The corresponding Smackdown's from 2016 and 2017 had 2.4M viewers. This will be lucky to hit 2.1M.


----------



## validreasoning

llj said:


> *Smackdown today is a much thinner roster than it was in 2016 in terms of star power,* and instead of trying to really cement the credibility of popular newcomers to the brand like Nakamura, Joe and Asuka by letting them get a rub with the main titles, they just double down on known names like AJ holding the title for 84 years and more women's feuds with Charlotte constantly in the title picture, or using popular names who need more momentum to try to make barely used unknowns relevant.
> 
> Hell, if you're not going to do anything with the US Title on Nakamura, you might as well give the belt to the women's division to do something with it.


Is it?

SD roster in 2016 was

1.ambrose
2. Styles
3. Cena
4. Orton
5. Bray Wyatt
6. Miz
7. Kane
8. Baron Corbin
9. Ziggler
10. Kalisto
11. Ryder
12. Crews
13. Rawley
14. Rowan
15. Becky
16. Nattie
17. Naomi
18. Bliss
19. Carmella
20. American alpha
21. Usos
22. Ascension
23. Vaudevillians
24. Breezango

Eva marie and del Rio worked a few shows before leaving and Ellsworth joined and was working main event angles. Cena for sure is bigger star than anyone currently on SD but he wasn't around all that much in 2016.. didn't work backlash ppv e.g (which struggled to sell tickets) and took off completely after mid October for rest of the year.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 10/9/18 Vs 10/2/18 ):
2.135M Vs 2.095M ( + 0.040M / + 1.91% )
0.670D Vs 0.690D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.135M Vs 2.374M ( - 0.239M / 89.93% )
0.670D Vs 0.823D*

*Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 10/9/18 Vs 10/10/17 ):
2.135M Vs 2.467M ( - 0.332M / - 13.46% )
0.670D Vs 0.800D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.467M Vs 2.871M ( - 0.404M / 85.93% )
0.800D Vs 0.963D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 4th by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Slight increase in total viewers and a slight decrease in the demo. Down 13.5% year to year is not good. 

The last 3 weeks of RAW retention have been 93.3 %, 91%, and 89.93%. This is well above what they normally do, so for the last three weeks, they are doing a better job of keeping the WWE audience that is tired from 3 hours the previous night. If they both keep dropping, sub 2.0M will be a reality.


----------



## Crasp

No significant change compared to last week then. 

Makes me chuckle a bit that Raw hardly moved either even with the pensioner patrol.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Besides competition from the usual heavy hitters, _The Conners_ returns. There will be some interest n seeing how they deal with Roseanne's absence. We'll see how SDL fares.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 10/16/18 Vs 10/9/18 ):
2.545M Vs 2.135M ( + 0.410M / + 19.20% )
0.920D Vs 0.670D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.545M Vs 2.396M ( + 0.149M / + 6.22% )
0.920D Vs 0.860D*

*Note: SDL is 5th by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 10/16/18 Vs 10/17/17 ):
2.545M Vs 2.320M ( + 0.225M / + 9.70% )
0.920D Vs 0.730D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.320M Vs 2.688M ( - 0.368M / 86.31% )
0.730D Vs 0.907D

Note: SDL this week last year was 9th by demo & 9th by viewership.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

SD finally beat Raw, 2.545 million.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

Showstopper said:


> SD finally beat Raw, 2.545 million.












The one draw to outdraw RAW :cool2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Wow. It beat Raw, but that number isn't good. I mean, when Raw 1000 happened that was like the best number they did in years. Is this even the best SD number in the past year?


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Wow. It beat Raw, but that number isn't good. I mean, when Raw 1000 happened that was like the best number they did in years. Is this even the best SD number in the past year?


https://www.gerweck.net/tv-ratings/2018-tv-ratings/


----------



## HankHill_85

Not a fantastic number, but I like that it got one over on the "Shield & Strowman Show".

Suck on that, Steph.


----------



## llj

They beat RAW, but not by much. 

It's bad. You can blame NBA or cable cutting or whatever but there's a lot more evidence than they are simply losing audiences. And who can blame them? The product is stale now. Smackdown is supposedly better than RAW, but that's not saying much. Bringing old guys back won't help solve the core issues with this company.

The end of last year and beginning of this year the WWE overall had an uptick of interest because they were finally pushing some likable new faces or finally pushing ones they hadn't been using in a while. AJ's reign was still fresh, Braun was still red hot, and 90% of the current roster wasn't buried yet. Fast forward 10 months later and those new faces have been buried/put on the back burner in favour of the same old faces they've been trying to push for the past 3-4 years.

People like seeing new developments, new faces, and even moreso when it looks like the WWE gets behind them. Now they're going the opposite way, doubling down on the status quo and bringing back OLD faces because they've completely dropped the ball (again) on making new stars.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Good for them. I expect the status quo to return again next week


----------



## Ace

Wow, that's a pretty poor number :lmao

They got more around WM this year :lmao

Losing audience + bad promotion for the show.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Ace said:


> Wow, that's a pretty poor number :lmao
> 
> They got more around WM this year :lmao
> 
> Losing audience + bad promotion for the show.


RAW 25 got 4.530M compared to 2.545M for this. That amounts to 56.18% of RAW'S special. Def. proves which brand is seen as "the crown jewel" of WWE, if you will. It did face far less competition than SDL had last night though. So far, excluding the latest RAW and Smackdown, SDL is retaining 80.84% of RAW per week this year.


----------



## Ace

BAD SHIV RISING said:


> RAW 25 got 4.530M compared to 2.545M for this. That amounts to 56.18% of RAW'S special. Def. proves which brand is seen as "the crown jewel" of WWE, if you will. It did face far less competition than SDL had last night though. So far, excluding the latest RAW and Smackdown, SDL is retaining 80.84% of RAW per week this year.


 I was expecting 2.8m +, think the wildcard finals did better and didn't have all the special appearances or the weeks in advance promotion.

Goes to show SD has been bleeding viewers too, although expected as it is the 4th and 5th hr of Raw, the illusion of it being on equal standing is gone.

I would be deeply concerned if I were fox, these aren't just one offs, even specials can't bring in a big number.


----------



## Mordecay

If they would have booked the IIconics they could have easily broken 3 million :grin2:

But, in all honesty, this is a dissapointing number. Granted, it wasn't as loaded or promoted as RAW25, but I expected at least 2.7 million.


----------



## Ace

Mordecay said:


> If they would have booked the IIconics they could have easily broken 3 million :grin2:
> 
> But, in all honesty, this is a dissapointing number. Granted, it wasn't as loaded or promoted as RAW25, but I expected at least 2.7 million.


 Nostalgia can only work for so long.

The things that were pushed for this event were Evolution, Edge's interview with Becky (not sure if Becky was announced for this in advance) and Taker. And here we are with this piss poor special number.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Ace said:


> I was expecting 2.8m +, think the wildcard finals did better and didn't have all the special appearances or the weeks in advance promotion.
> 
> Goes to show SD has been bleeding viewers too, although expected as it is the 4th and 5th hr of Raw, the illusion of it being on equal standing is gone too.


They are both bleeding out. They both share the same audience and that average % has been fairly consistent for the last two years. Prior to this special exceeding RAW, the closest they had come was 98.22% for Christmas. 12/26/2017. which is another unusual situation. Things should return to normal next week. I am curious to see how close SDL can come as they have done three straight weeks at 90%+.


----------



## Ace

BAD SHIV RISING said:


> They are both bleeding out. They both share the same audience and that average % has been fairly consistent for the last two years. Prior to this special exceeding RAW, the closest they had come was 98.22% for Christmas. 12/26/2017. which is another unusual situation. Things should return to normal next week. I am curious to see how close SDL can come as they have done three straight weeks at 90%+.


 SD 1000 didn't even manage to beat SD 2017's average audience :lmao

So glad the show flopped, the WWE deserves this for what they've done to SD :ha

Hope both shows breach sub 2m next week.


----------



## Robbyfude

That's still a pretty shit rating considering this was supposed to be a special episode. At least it managed to beat Raw is Roman.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

_*I'm proud that Smackdown Live 1000 beat Raw in the ratings this week even with a shit show. *_


----------



## fabi1982

Robbyfude said:


> That's still a pretty shit rating considering this was supposed to be a special episode. At least it managed to beat Raw is Roman.


What do you expect? I dont remember them mentoning SD1000 on RAW on Monday once (maybe an evolution ad, but not more). Remeber RAW 25 was basically advertised month in advance on SD. How do you bring people to watch, when they have to expect just a normal Smackdown?


----------



## Ace

Meltzer thought it was a disappointing rating, he said anything under 2.7m would be bad.

It's the *13th highest rating of the year* for a special with big names, not an impressive number whatsoever.


----------



## Ham and Egger

You guys are quick to blame the writing for the shows decline in rating when in reality the ratings are dropping across the board on most TV programming. Streaming services are altering the way people decide to watch their programming.


----------



## chronoxiong

Lol Smackdown finally beats RAW in the ratings war. About time. Wonder if the RAW writing team will try hard or still stick to the same status quo we keep seeing weekly.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The World Series starts tonight and it is going to lay the smacketh down. Given the high it had last week, there will be a drop most mucho tomorrow.


----------



## Crasp

People still watch Blernsball huh?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

To make it worse for SDL, the northeastern media market and the west are involved. This should be a very highly rated series.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 10/23/18 Vs 10/16/18 ):
2.087M Vs 2.545M ( - 0.458M / - 18.00% )
0.690D Vs 0.920D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.087M Vs 2.548M ( - 0.461M / 81.91% )
0.690D Vs 0.917D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 8th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 10/23/18 Vs 10/24/17 ):
2.087M Vs 2.699M ( - 0.612M / - 22.68% )
0.690D Vs 0.810D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.699M Vs 2.953M ( - 0.254M / 91.40% )
0.810D Vs 1.033D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 3rd by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

As expected the World Series wreaked havoc on Smackdown but it still remained above 2M. Dropping over 22% in one year. :trips8

Last week was an anomaly and this week will be one too unless they face more World Series games. I did note that last year the ratings started getting stronger at this time. No idea why except for the RAW Invasion and build for Survivor Series.

Edit: This is SDL's RAW retention rate from this point last year to year's end.

10/24/2017 91.40% Fallout from RAW invasion
10/31/2017 74.25%
11/07/2017 91.62%
11/14/2017 86.01%
11/21/2017 86.60%
11/28/2017 97.14%
12/05/2017 88.62%
12/12/2017 92.40%
12/19/2017 92.53%
12/26/2017 98.22%


----------



## Ace

Could hit less than 2m next week if they're up against the world series again after this week's show :lmao


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 10/30/18 Vs 10/23/18 ):
2.110M Vs 2.087M ( + 0.023M / + 1.10% )
0.730D Vs 0.690D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.110M Vs 2.472M ( - 0.362M / 85.36% )
0.730D Vs 0.880D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 10/30/18 Vs 10/31/17 ):
2.110M Vs 2.119M ( - 0.009M / - 0.42% )
0.730D Vs 0.650D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.119M Vs 2.854M ( - 0.735M / 74.25% )
0.650D Vs 0.943D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 9th by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Slightly up most likely due to no World Series game. 85% RAW retention which is in its usual range. Almost the same year to year but higher in the demo. Last year the RAW invasion angle pumped up the ratings. They should do something similar this year to hype up Survivor Series.

Another meh rating.


----------



## JDP2016

You mean that many people tuned in to see what Becky would do or say after Evolution? This is what happens when the women's champ is more interesting than the WWE champ.


----------



## Sincere

I wonder how much Crown Jewel drama is affecting viewership right now


----------



## Slyfox

Shitty ratings from Shitty world Champion.
Nothing to see here.
Smackdown might drop to 1M's by the time AJs reign of terror ends.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 11/6/18 Vs 10/30/18 ):
2.088M Vs 2.110M ( - 0.022M / - 1.04% )
0.680D Vs 0.730D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.088M Vs 2.441M ( - 0.353M / 85.54% )
0.680D Vs 0.843D*

*Note: SDL is 17th by demo & 24th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 11/6/18 Vs 11/7/17 ):
2.088M Vs 2.603M ( - 0.515M / - 19.78% )
0.680D Vs 0.820D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.603M Vs 2.841M ( - 0.238M / 91.62% )
0.820D Vs 0.947D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 8th by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

Getting closer and closer to sub 2m :lol


----------



## llj

Truly awful numbers. Ironic given the thread in here with people saying Smackdown is the superior show. It's all relative, but the product in the WWE overall has been hampered by sheer stubbornness and lack of creativity, and inability to adjust their stale formula.

I just can't imagine "ratings don't matter anymore" being a viable argument. It does matter. That coupled with attendances where whole swaths of arenas are covered in tarp indicates that something is not working and major change to their old methods is needed.

This:



> Note: SDL is 17th by demo & 24th by viewership.
> Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 8th by viewership.


...is worrisome. Because it doesn't speak to "all TV ratings are down, cable cutting, etc". This is an indication of how well they are doing against their current competition. The numbers don't lie, and it spells disaster for Smackdown, etc etc


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Down slightly from week to week. It seems like being recorded isn't a major drag on the ratings. Lo and behold it having 85.54% RAW retention. Feels like Groundhog's day with week after week of similar RAW retention. It was down nearly 20% from last year. I don't remember but I think the RAW vs SDL feud boosted ratings last year. This year, it doesn't feel like anything more than a ppv.


----------



## Mordecay

No IIconics, no buys, at least for me :shrug

Honestly, they can put whoever and the rating will basically stay the same or drop, no one is a draw: AJ, Bryan, Becky, say what you want about them, but they don't make a difference. They can put Dillinger vs Truth and Mandy vs one of the Iiconics and I bet there wouldn't be much difference, if any


----------



## MC

AJ Styles not a draw confirmed :troll


----------



## llj

Mordecay said:


> No IIconics, no buys, at least for me :shrug
> 
> Honestly, they can put whoever and the rating will basically stay the same or drop, no one is a draw: AJ, Bryan, Becky, say what you want about them, but they don't make a difference. They can put Dillinger vs Truth and Mandy vs one of the Iiconics and I bet there wouldn't be much difference, if any


At least if they tried a bunch of different things and experimented more, you never know something might take off. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

There are Jinders who don't turn out great. But these experiments don't entirely tank the program either, as you mentioned. But remember when they put the World Heavyweight title on Mark Henry? They made an atypical guy (for the WWE) the top guy on the brand and the ratings shot up. People like seeing something different, and unique looking people (whether it's race, gimmick, or whatever) to get the ball to run with. They keep pissing away entire demographics by always taking the "safe" choices , in an increasingly multicultural viewership. Look at all the faces in a typical WWE crowd nowadays, compared to the faces in the crowd 18 years ago. It's completely different now. Yet the WWE still operates as if they have the same demographic as 18 years ago.


----------



## southshield

Actually the numbers are better than I thought considering the midterm coverage.


----------



## tducey

Yeah, midterms played a part I guess last night. Still the WWE has to take chances again. Give more people a chance. Look at how Becky Lynch has taken off. Do that to some more people. There's talent galore in WWE right now. If used properly you'd see ratings go up and fans come back not be turned away as I am.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Get the damn title off AJ. Christ already.


----------



## Jbardo

RainmakerV2 said:


> Get the damn title off AJ. Christ already.


Nobody is a draw on smackdown at the moment.


----------



## JDP2016

Looks like Becky ain't drawing the numbers. :ciampa


----------



## Ace

RainmakerV2 said:


> Get the damn title off AJ. Christ already.


 Not advertised for the show and was on for no more than 2 mins fpalm

The ratings literally began the freefall once they stopped presenting the WWE Champion as the top star of the show. Around WM they were still doing 2.5-2.7m, now they're doing around 2-2.2m a week, if lucky. Since then it's mostly been Bryan, Charlotte or Becky getting the top billing and segments.


----------



## Psychosocial

This week last year had two major title changes and a SDL invasion of RAW. This time we got nothing of the sort and given that these episodes were taped, it's not really surprising that the numbers went down. Maybe there's more to it than that but still I'm sure it plays a part in the lower numbers.


----------



## tducey

I do agree, they need to take the title off of Styles. I like the guy but a yr. is to long for anyone to be champ.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Ace said:


> Not advertised for the show and was on for no more than 2 mins fpalm
> 
> The ratings literally began the freefall once they stopped presenting the WWE Champion as the top star of the show. Around WM they were still doing 2.5-2.7m, now they're doing around 2-2.2m a week, if lucky. Since then it's mostly been Bryan, Charlotte or Becky getting the top billing and segments.


Doesnt matter. The show needs a jolt. Wwe posted a stat that AJ has lost 1 televised singles match in the last 7 months. I'm not sure if thats true, but if so thats ludicrous, especially on a show as stacked as SD. He's tapped Bryan, Joe, beat Nakamura, Rusev, I mean Jesus. They don't have him on the show every week because he's being run into the damn ground. I mean how often do you want him on the show just beating everyone? Does he need to beat Almas again? Maybe have him beat Orton just because?


----------



## Ace

RainmakerV2 said:


> Doesnt matter. The show needs a jolt. Wwe posted a stat that AJ has lost 1 televised singles match in the last 7 months. I'm not sure if thats true, but if so thats ludicrous, especially on a show as stacked as SD. He's tapped Bryan, Joe, beat Nakamura, Rusev, I mean Jesus. They don't have him on the show every week because he's being run into the damn ground. I mean how often do you want him on the show just beating everyone? Does he need to beat Almas again? Maybe have him beat Orton just because?


 AJ barely has matches on TV and when he does, it's usually a tag team match. I remember him losing to Nakamura and one of the Usos a few weeks back.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 11/13/18 Vs 11/6/18 ):
2.312M Vs 2.088M ( + 0.224M / + 10.73% )
0.800D Vs 0.680D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.312M Vs 2.450M ( - 0.138M / 94.37% )
0.800D Vs 0.857D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 11/13/18 Vs 11/14/17 ):
2.312M Vs 2.607M ( - 0.295M / - 11.32% )
0.800D Vs 0.820D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.607M Vs 3.031M ( - 0.424M / 86.01% )
0.820D Vs 1.060D

Note: SDL this week last year was 5th by demo & 7th by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

Tough to say whether this increase is on the possibility of the Raw invasion or the WWE Championship match.

The WWE Championshp wasn't promoted before the show, so you cant really say how many people it drew in.

And after Raw, there was the feeling that Raw will likely hit back.


----------



## InexorableJourney

I called that 100% wrong.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Ace said:


> The WWE Championshp wasn't promoted before the show, so you cant really say how many people it drew in..


Didn't the title change break on twitter and a couple websites before the show started? I thought the only part that wasn't known ahead of time was the heel turn.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The Man drawing in the viewers. :becky The teased Bryan win holding them. :bryan

Oh well. It shall be back to normal next week. 94.37% RAW retention is on the higher end. RAW Hours 4&5 beating Hour 3. roud 

Just shows that compelling segments do still garner viewer interest. Still down over 11% year to year and they are losing the most interesting star on their lineup. :sadbecky

Wonder if the Road to Mania will inject some life into these overall flaccid ratings?


----------



## Sincere

ShadowCounter said:


> Didn't the title change break on twitter and a couple websites before the show started? I thought the only part that wasn't known ahead of time was the heel turn.


Not exactly. IIRC, an insider was tweeting about a noteworthy main event for SD 'that everyone would be talking about tomorrow,' but didn't go into any details beyond that it wasn't about the Becky/Ronda stuff. I doubt that kinda thing would reach casual viewers, anyway.

My guess is this was more a bump on the back of an instant-classic Raw segment that has 5 million youtube views.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

It was more Becky than the WWE Championship. Becky's invasion of RAW has over 5M views.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I did forget that Smackdown next week should have a ppv "bump". I bet it drops. :bryanlol

Want to draw in interest? Have Heyman join Bryan and Brock loses. Yeah, not gonna happen. :bryan2

Amazing that Becky actually drew viewers. The Man is the hottest act in WWE. :becky2


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Heyman aligning himself with Bryan is possible. Brock did have a segment on RAW with a heel. It's not like he destroyed a beloved babyface.


----------



## Mordecay

IIconics=Ratings


----------



## Ace

Ugh, you can't say what drew one way or another without a segment breakdown.

Either way it's nothing impressive considering they were doing 2.4-2.5 around last year. They're slowly but surely losing their audience. 

SDs ratings basically follow Raw's, SD doesn't really have its own audience which would allow it do draw more than Raw, hence why the retention rates are almost always under 95, and usually around 80%.

I do think the angle on Raw got people watching this week expecting an invasion. And the WWE championship played a part in keeping viewers watching but you can't outright state it as fact without the numbers. Who knows, if they advertised the world championship match in advance , it could have done better, I'm just not sure how much got out for a world title match during the show.


----------



## Crasp

The Boy Wonder said:


> It was more Becky than the WWE Championship. Becky's invasion of RAW has over 5M views.


Yeah sorry that was me.


----------



## chronoxiong

The man Becky Lynch = ratings. Will miss her. Thanks a lot Nia Jax. You prick.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

The Boy Wonder said:


> It was more Becky than the WWE Championship. Becky's invasion of RAW has over 5M views.


The invasion angle always does insane YouTube numbers, but it doesn't always translate into viewers. Last years under siege has like 10 million views on YT.

The angle probably brought some viewers in, but the title match and an overall solid episode kept them watching.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 11/20/18 Vs 11/13/18 ):
2.150M Vs 2.312M ( - 0.162M / - 7.01% )
0.690D Vs 0.800D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.150M Vs 2.493M ( - 0.343M / 86.24% )
0.690D Vs 0.873D*

*Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 11/20/18 Vs 11/21/17 ):
2.150M Vs 2.662M ( - 0.512M / - 19.23% )
0.690D Vs 0.820D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.662M Vs 3.074M ( - 0.412M / 86.60% )
0.820D Vs 1.040D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 4th by viewership.*


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

Bring on the take the title off of AJ squad lol. I never give a shit about ratings but it was funny seeing foolishness around here for some time.


----------



## Ace

:ha

Holy shit I expected it to be around 2.2-2.3m after getting stomped at SS and there being significant changes and Bryan's turn. This is coming off a major PPV too.....

But nothing :lmao

Tbf this is in the 80-90% region it's usually in, but Raw was up against that all time classic MNF game.. So many ways to read this.


----------



## JDP2016

Damm. After all Smackdown has had happen in the last two weeks. Charlotte killing Ronda, Bryan winning the title and turning heel and this is the best they could do post Survivor Series. :lol


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Last week gave the bit of the RAW audience who doesn't watch Smackdown a reason to watch, hence the uptick. Now it's back in the same holding pattern with RAW. It was down 19% year to year and RAW was down 18% year to year. It's the same old song and nothing is going to change.

That being said the show sucked and deserved that rating. The first hour was WOAT material.


----------



## Ace

I think it's pretty clear now and has been for a long time.

No one outside a couple of guys draw, even then it's not really significant. It doesn't matter who is champion (unless it's a megastar like Rock).

The thing that draws are big stories and angles. Like last week with the Becky invasion angle.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Last year's RAW retention was 86.60%. This year's was 86.24%. Both shows have shed over half a million viewers in that time frame. How low can it go?


----------



## Sincere

Ace said:


> The thing that draws are big stories and angles. Like last week with the Becky invasion angle.


Charlotte going psycho and beating the shit out of Ronda isn't a big story/angle? 

Must be missing a key ingredient, I guess.


----------



## llj

Burying the entire brand at Survivor Series didn't help its case either


----------



## Sincere

llj said:


> Burying the entire brand at Survivor Series didn't help its case either


IDK. Until SD actually aired, there was reason to believe the burial may have produced some kind of storyline. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1064364952339632128
Raw was pretty shit this week. I'd bet that affected SD ratings much more than the scoreboard at SSeries.


----------



## Ace

Sincere said:


> llj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Burying the entire brand at Survivor Series didn't help its case either
> 
> 
> 
> IDK. Until SD actually aired, there was reason to believe the burial may have produced some kind of storyline.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1064364952339632128
> Raw was pretty shit this week. I'd bet that affected SD ratings much more than the scoreboard at SSeries.
Click to expand...

 lol that was the main reason I was interested.. I thought he was going to turn and they were going to bring some new stars. But fuck that, they did nothing.

After that shit show I have little interest to watch outside segments from my favorites. Zero follow up from being humilated like utter losers.

The only solace SD can take is 2 of their top stars were not there. But Joe got fucked bad... Miz wasn't great either but he entertained me in the match so I'm not as pissed, I was annoyed they jobbed him out to a local jobber fpalm


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

I bet FOX is loving this


----------



## JDP2016

Sincere said:


> Charlotte going psycho and beating the shit out of Ronda isn't a big story/angle?
> 
> Must be missing a key ingredient, I guess.


No one knew if she was gonna be there or not. Unless I missed something.



Ace said:


> The thing that draws are big stories and angles. Like last week with the Becky invasion angle.


How was that a big story or angle when it was the exact same shit Smackdown did a year ago? Only difference was Becky lead the charge.


----------



## FROSTY

*With exception of The MIz's Shane O Mac shuffle and Daniel Bryan being awesome I'm convinced creative/Vince had to be actively trying to make this episode that shitty. I swear they did it on purpose, because there is no way they set down and wrote that and everybody said yeah these are great show ideas for the Survivor Series follow up SDL.*


----------



## Kratosx23

What a shock. You bury the living shit out of a show and it doesn't draw well. Who knew? 

Apparently the owner of a billion dollar corporation wasn't smart enough to realize that.....


----------



## McGee

Guy in the green smiley faced shirt didn't even stick around for the mixed match challenge. Still would love to know who the hell that guy is to get front and center row seats for every PPV weekend events and all that time off work.


----------



## tducey

You have to give people a reason to watch. Having the show go 0-6 is not the way to do that.


----------



## Blade Runner

Sincere said:


> Charlotte going psycho and beating the shit out of Ronda isn't a big story/angle?
> 
> Must be missing a key ingredient, I guess.


Except Becky was there _last_ week, and could've easily shown up _this _week.


It's not like the audience was told ahead of time that Becky wouldn't show up.


----------



## shadows123

KYRA BATARA said:


> Except Becky was there _last_ week, and could've easily shown up _this _week.
> 
> 
> It's not like the audience was told ahead of time that Becky wouldn't show up.


If it was just one person who influences ratings, then yes..But as it has been evident for quite some time, the wwe brand is the draw with the current roster and not any single person.... While Becky may have caused a minor bump last week, that was also because it was the go home show and people maybe tuned in for continued shenanigans..

But generally speaking otherwise, you bury your own product at Survivor Series, then put out a pretty bad Raw.. Why the hell would any one want to tune in for Smackdown .. which was also terrible? The episode was written/executed in a way that appeared like the wwe wanted to troll the very few who were unfortunate enough to tune in :laugh: Sub 2mn may be coming soon, the way things are going


----------



## tducey

Once again you got to give people a reason to watch. The formula you took with Becky use that on some of your other talents. That's going to be what turns the product around. Utilizing better the talent they have on their roster better.


----------



## Ace

I'm going to lmao if it drops to under 2m with no competition :lmao


----------



## Sincere

tducey said:


> Once again you got to give people a reason to watch. The formula you took with Becky use that on some of your other talents. That's going to be what turns the product around. Utilizing better the talent they have on their roster better.


Something tells me it's not quite that simple. Becky was kind of an accident WWE seems to have stumbled into, at least initially. They seem to be trying to reproduce it to one degree or another with other people here and there. I guess we'll see how it goes.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I'll leave the superb breakdowns to @JonnyAceLaryngitis ; but here is the chart:









Smackdown had 2.264M viewers with a .81 in the demo. That's an increase of 114,000 total viewers and a bump of .11 in the demo since last week.

I can see only one reason for the increase. The Man returned and it spurred some additional interest. :becky2 

The defacto RAW Houe 4 & 5 beating RAW Hour 3 by 153,000 viewers and .08 in the demo. roud :becky


----------



## Chris90

>Asuka in the main event
>Rating go up


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 11/27/18 Vs 11/20/18 ):
2.264M Vs 2.150M ( + 0.114M / + 5.30% )
0.810D Vs 0.690D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.264M Vs 2.368M ( - 0.104M / 95.61% )
0.810D Vs 0.793D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 11/27/18 Vs 11/28/17 ):
2.264M Vs 2.680M ( - 0.416M / - 15.52% )
0.810D Vs 0.820D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.680M Vs 2.759M ( - 0.079M / 97.14% )
0.820D Vs 0.907D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Smackdown beat RAW in the demo for the whole show. :fuckyeah 

Also beat Hour 2 and 3 in the demo. 95.61% RAW retention and only 104,000 fewer viewers than RAW. This is why The Man is known as The Man. :beckylol


----------



## Rain

Please hire Vickie Guerrero. Paige is absolute garbage in this role.

I’ll even settle for John Laryngitis if it means there’s a heel running the show. Kill me for saying that.


----------



## Sincere

Becky's Raw invasion fallout resulted in a ratings bump for SD.
While Becky was off TV injured, SD ratings dipped.
Her announced return resulted in another bump for SD.

:becky2


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Decent number, but shows like NCIS that SD goes up against in the Fall was a repeat episode this week, while Raw, as usual, goes up against a fresh NFL game every week in the Fall. There is no competition either show goes up against all year like the NFL in the Fall for Raw.

Down over 15% from last year, too. Still a nice uptick, but the lack of competition this particular week definitely helped.


----------



## Ace

Decent #, I'm pleased as they advertised AJ's return :lol

But it was apparently because of the lack of competition, I'll take it anyhow.

If the number had been shit, I know people will have given him shit for it because people always find a way to blame AJ.

Next week can go to hell for all I care.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

Rain said:


> Please hire Vickie Guerrero. Paige is absolute garbage in this role.
> 
> I’ll even settle for *John Laryngitis* if it means there’s a heel running the show. Kill me for saying that.


Finally someone who comprehends real superstardom. :cool2	










Titan Towers needs more people like you to give the WWE Universe what they want. :cool2




























Also, why are there no custom Johnny Ace smilies? :no:


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Smackdown a year ago is higher than current RAW. Imagine if the same can be said a year from today. :trips8


----------



## Ace

Don't think it will crack below 2m but I would love to see the show get close. SD is doing 80-90 percent without any other factors generally so that puts them there.

Not holding out for it as I'm not sure what the competition is like this week, last week they were up against replays.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Ace said:


> Don't think it will crack below 2m but I would love to see the show get close. SD is doing 80-90 percent without any other factors generally so that puts them there.
> 
> Not holding out for it as I'm not sure what the competition is like this week, last week they were up against replays.


It could but I think it will be over 90% of RAW since it tanked so badly. It might beat RAW Hour 1 this week, but you never know.


----------



## Ace

Hm, so this week's show was actually good. Would be harsh for it to a pull a bad number.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 12/4/18 Vs 11/27/18 ):
1.948M Vs 2.264M ( - 0.316M / - 13.96% )
0.660D Vs 0.810D

SDL Vs RAW:
1.948M Vs 2.286M ( - 0.338M / 85.21% )
0.660D Vs 0.810D*

*Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 10th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 12/4/18 Vs 12/5/17 ):
1.948M Vs 2.493M ( - 0.545M / - 21.86% )
0.660D Vs 0.760D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.493M Vs 2.813M ( - 0.320M / 88.62% )
0.760D Vs 0.870D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*










Lowest Viewership/Rating for any episode since going live.

Cumulative RAW/SDL viewership of 4.234M (2.286M + 1.948M) is the lowest cumulative viewership since I can't recall how long.


----------



## Ace

Lmfao










I knew it was coming, I'm so glad AJ missed that sub 2m. Would have never heard the end of it if he drew that as champion (not putting the blame on the champion obviously there's more to it than that).

And yes I know SD has drawn below 2m before but it was against a ratings monster (Trump v Hilary debate).

Where is my boy Shiv @

Is it time to end this reign of ERROR? :heyman6


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

Ace said:


> Lmfao
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew it was coming, I'm so glad AJ missed that sub 2m. Would have never heard the end of it if he drew that as champion (not putting the blame on the champion obviously there's more to it than that).
> 
> And yes I know SD has drawn below 2m before but it was against a ratings monster (Trump v Hilary debate).


nah, we all know its because AJ is challenging for the title. looool.


----------



## Ace

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> Ace said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lmfao
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew it was coming, I'm so glad AJ missed that sub 2m. Would have never heard the end of it if he drew that as champion (not putting the blame on the champion obviously there's more to it than that).
> 
> And yes I know SD has drawn below 2m before but it was against a ratings monster (Trump v Hilary debate).
> 
> 
> 
> nah, we all know its because AJ is challenging for the title. looool.
Click to expand...

 It was inevitable but some haters had this coming - blaming AJ for everything, the refresh has actually led to greater drops LMFAO. There's more to it than who's champion... But still man that is a shocking number. I didn't expect it to be so low. I'm like 200k off of what I expected. 

What were they up against?


----------



## llj

Considering the show has been better lately, this isn't exactly encouraging the WWE to improve.


----------



## .christopher.

Not surprised. The whole product is trash. Even with Bryan as champ I still refuse to watch the show. I just look up his segments. A waste of time, really.


----------



## Ace

llj said:


> Considering the show has been better lately, this isn't exactly encouraging the WWE to improve.


 That's the only bad thing about it, I enjoyed the show last night. I guess it's the stale pattern which has burnt out fans or maybe it's SD suffering the backlash of a shit Raw. But nah, this all lies on who's champion, AJ was shit on heavily for the ratings - let's be consistent and blame the champions and top stars which the show was built around for the last half a year.


----------



## Chrome

Under 2 million in the 1st hour. :wow

Ratings just continue to sink lol.


----------



## Ace

llj said:


> I do feel it's underserved as I enjoyed the show, but fuck that.
> 
> Considering the show has been better lately, this isn't exactly encouraging the WWE to improve.


 Most logical explanation is backlash from a bad Raw.

But let's be consistent and go with the blame the champion for the god awful ratings. I mean it didn't stop the majority for shitting on AJs reign.

I wonder if those guys will show their faces in here now that their favorites are champion and even with a more interesting direction the shows ratings have declined at a even greater rate :lmao


----------



## DammitChrist

Ace said:


> Lmfao
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew it was coming, I'm so glad AJ missed that sub 2m. Would have never heard the end of it if he drew that as champion (not putting the blame on the champion obviously there's more to it than that).
> 
> And yes I know SD has drawn below 2m before but it was against a ratings monster (Trump v Hilary debate).


Remember all those demands for AJ Styles to drop the WWE title? :trips8

Anyway, I'm not going to point this on Daniel Bryan. I don't expect anyone on the Smackdown roster to boost up the ratings dramatically. 

Hopefully, this is a reminder to everyone that the viewership continues to drop because people are either getting worn out by the product or they're just not that interested in it (even though the last 2 Smackdown episodes were actually pretty solid), and that the ratings aren't just down to one talent.


----------



## .christopher.

To be fair, I never blamed AJ. You can't blame one guy - it's the whole company that's rotten.


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

The Rock can come back next week on SD or RAW and wouldn't do shit in the long run lets be honest.


----------



## Ace

AJ fans right now










My boy requested to drop the title at the perfect time.

Missed it by 3 weeks :ha


----------



## .christopher.

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> The Rock can come back next week on SD or RAW and wouldn't do shit in the long run lets be honest.


To be fair, "The Rock" hasn't been on WWE TV since 03. Dwayne Johnson isn't that entertaining which is who'd we get.

I'd tune in if it was Austin, though. Probably the only guy who I would for.


----------



## Ace

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> The Rock can come back next week on SD or RAW and wouldn't do shit in the long run lets be honest.


 Let me have this :lol 

You don't know how much shit I've had to read on here the last year. 

I'm taking this and running it into the ground.


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

Ace said:


> Let me have this. You don't know how much shit I've had to read on here the last year. I'm taking this and running with it and into the ground.


Nah, you should continue to do that lol. I was just shooting shit at the Rock and the old schoolers who like to shit on the newer guys all the time.


----------



## Ace




----------



## HankHill_85

Smackdown falling below 2 million viewers when:

- Daniel Bryan's the heel WWE Champion;
- Becky, Charlotte and Asuka are in the spotlight of the women's division;
- There actually IS a tag division;
- Feuds with potential between Orton/Rey and Joe/Hardy;
- The show in general is usually a solid two-hour program with little to no filler, unlike the marathon that is Raw...

:fuckthis

Smackdown deserves far better numbers than this bullshit. I actually had hopes of Team Blue being #1 this week since Raw fell hard again.


----------



## JDP2016

Oh well. I'm enjoying the decline, how about you guys?


----------



## Ace

How else can you explain this?

The best thing about this is this whole decline fell the moment they pushed AJ and the WWE title aside :heyman6

They were still growing in 2016 and 2017, the fall really started in 2018.

*It's unlikely the cause*, but plenty have thrown out worse with a lot less behind it.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Ace said:


> Lmfao
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew it was coming, I'm so glad AJ missed that sub 2m. Would have never heard the end of it if he drew that as champion (not putting the blame on the champion obviously there's more to it than that).
> 
> And yes I know SD has drawn below 2m before but it was against a ratings monster (Trump v Hilary debate).
> 
> Where is my boy Shiv @
> 
> Is it time to end this reign of ERROR? :heyman6


Let's be intellectually honest. Find me one post where I ever blamed AJ for the ratings decline. You won't because I have been entirely consistent. I never have attributed the decline to one person. https://www.wrestlingforum.com/smac...-blue-brand-ratings-war-214.html#post76124400

Both shows are falling at a precipitous rate and the Smackdown rating is dependent on the RAW one. 85% RAW retention rate of a piss poor RAW rating. When the NFL competition goes, RAW should rise but so will Smackdown while keeping its same competition.But how could that be? Obviously they do not have distinct audiences. They pretty much share the same audience minus those who won't watch 5 straight hours of WWE programming. Same old, same old. Nothing is changing. 

Oh yeah reign of error referred to the interminably long reign which should have ended months ago either at the hands of Nak and Joe. You celebrating AJ main eventing a show with this rating is quite amusing though.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

God damn.

:trips8

If Raw this week and SD's rating last night isn't enough to open up Vince McMahon's eyes...then nothing will. This is not good, though.


----------



## DammitChrist

Showstopper said:


> God damn.
> 
> :trips8
> 
> If Raw this week and SD's rating last night isn't enough to open up Vince McMahon's eyes...then nothing will. This is not good, though.


To think that it isn't even Christmas time yet :trips8


----------



## Chrome

Showstopper said:


> God damn.
> 
> :trips8
> 
> If Raw this week and SD's rating last night isn't enough to open up Vince McMahon's eyes...then nothing will. This is not good, though.


Nothing's opening up that old motherfucker's eyes, lol.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> To think that it isn't even Christmas time yet :trips8


I think even though we're a couple of weeks from Christmas, numbers for both shows are going to be more down than usual. People are getting ready for the holidays. They're not going to be parked in front of the TV as much as usual, IMO. But yeah, Raw and SD on Christmas Eve and then Christmas day I would think are going to be the two lowest rated Raw and SD ever.


----------



## DoolieNoted

RAW is the 'flagship'.. If RAW is shit, then anyone not inside the wrestling fandom bubble will probably assume SDL will be as bad if not worse.

Those numbers are fucking horrific though. If it's not worrying Vince, then he's obviously further down the rabbit hole than anyone thought.


----------



## thegockster

All that matters is the share price and right now wwe is making money hand over fist, Ratings are worthless


----------



## Mordecay

See what happens when you don't put the IIconics on tv, on my birtbday nonetheless :lol.

I remember some Becky fans making fun of Ronda for not being a draw on the RAW ratings thread, well, I guess she isn't the only one who isn't a draw despite being the focus of the show :shrug


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *Cumulative RAW/SDL viewership of 4.234M (2.286M + 1.948M) is the lowest cumulative viewership since I can't recall how long.*


This right here is the most damning statement concerning the woeful WWE ratings. Still awaiting rock bottom . I wouldn't include Christmas because that is an expected poor draw.


----------



## Shenroe

What, a show with the New Daniel Bryan not cutting you poeple promos like that other lunatic. The MAN Becky lynch, a real tag team scene. Really everything that Raw lacks according to this forum :lmao

And attendance wise, it's just as bad..


----------



## DammitChrist

Mordecay said:


> See what happens when you don't put the IIconics on tv, on my birtbday nonetheless :lol.
> 
> I remember some Becky fans making fun of Ronda for not being a draw on the RAW ratings thread, well, I guess she isn't the only one who isn't a draw despite being the focus of the show :shrug


NOBODY on the main roster is a draw.


----------



## RainmakerV2

AJ in the main event and Bryan as champ.









Explain it away excuse makers rofl.


----------



## Sincere

HankHill_85 said:


> Smackdown falling below 2 million viewers when: *Last night’s episode of Monday Night Raw drew a 1.61 rating on USA Network among live and same-night-DVR viewers, the lowest non-holiday rating ever.*


FTFY


----------



## ClintDagger

I honestly think sub 1.5MM Raws and sub 1.0MM SDs could happen before the move to Fox. There’s a shift happening beyond the 18 year decline that we’ve been seeing. The hardest of the hardcore are finally giving up.


----------



## Ace

SHIVVY POO IV: THE FINAL CHAPTER said:


> Let's be intellectually honest. Find me one post where I ever blamed AJ for the ratings decline. You won't because I have been entirely consistent. I never have attributed the decline to one person. https://www.wrestlingforum.com/smac...-blue-brand-ratings-war-214.html#post76124400
> 
> Both shows are falling at a precipitous rate and the Smackdown rating is dependent on the RAW one. 85% RAW retention rate of a piss poor RAW rating. When the NFL competition goes, RAW should rise but so will Smackdown while keeping its same competition.But how could that be? Obviously they do not have distinct audiences. They pretty much share the same audience minus those who won't watch 5 straight hours of WWE programming. Same old, same old. Nothing is changing.
> 
> Oh yeah reign of error referred to the interminably long reign which should have ended months ago either at the hands of Nak and Joe. You celebrating AJ main eventing a show with this rating is quite amusing though.


You're spot on but I'm getting my back while I can.

I was going to post I was happy AJ had lost the title weeks back because this fall was inevitable, I just didn't expect it weeks after he dropped the title.

The main event point would be interesting if the majority of the highest rated shows NOT featured AJ in the main event. 

The show is unquestionably built around Bryan and the women, it's been the case since WM whereas AJ has taken a backseat taking 2 weeks off each month and rarely doing anything when he's there. Hell I tuned out after the first 40 mins because I expected AJ to have the night off like he usually does. He's barely on the show and wasn't promoted which made me think he wasn't going to appear because of how they book AJ and the world championship feuds.

Btw I'm not blaming anyone for the falling ratings. I thought the last few shows were good, the fact is there's nothing compelling going on and even the woman in a hot run can't get people to watch. I think burying the title, the brand and top stars has hurt the product. They don't present their wrestlers well, they all feel like geeks.


----------



## Mr.Monkey

Smackdown could be as good as 2000 attitude era. People in the raw bubble would stubbornly not watch smackdown and realize that it is the better product than raw and don't get me started with nxt. They key is that smackdown needs to be consistent as well and 2 of the last shows should not be lower than raw imo. But who am I kidding I only watch what I wanna watch. Not only that but viewers are just burnt out and watching as a habit.


----------



## Ace

People need to realise stars and stories draw, the WWE has neither hence the awful ratings.

The only way this company knows how to push stories forward is to have the heel kick the face in the balls repeatedly.. Making the show and wrestlers look like a joke.

Don't get me started on the women, they were heavily featured the last two nights and are on a hot run, both shows produce their lowest numbers ever. Why should you watch the male geeks when they're presented as smaller stars than Nia, Charlotte, Becky etc.

No offense to any of them, they're good but when they become the stars, it just makes the men look like "betas" and geeks. None of the actual male stars would midcard to any of them. Call it sexist or whatever that's perception and has been embedded in fans minds from years back. Kids grew up impersonating SCSA, Rock, HBK etc. not Trish, Lita or Molly Holly. This will change for future generations as they will grow up with woman being respected and presented better, but by then their floor will be 1m and the company won't have the nostalgia of the AE to keep it relevant. Unless there are drastic changes or more cross over stars, I can't see the slide stopping anytime soon.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I expect a slight uptick once the Road to Mania then probably continue the slowly bleeding out trend. 

I am very interested to see how Fox affects their ratings. Do they increase, go down, or just flounder around? It is on Friday which isn't a great night for tv, but Fox is doing pretty well with the Tim Allen show et al. The two hour block is quite higher than Smackdown. Will just being on the network and having exposure on Thursday Night Football yield positive results? It is really all that intrigues me about the ratings because these threads have become monotonous with both shows free falling nearly every week.


----------



## Ace

Almost a given Fox will boot SD to FS1, it's only a question of when. 

They've lost an average ~300,000 viewers in the last year with no stop in sight.

Its early days but signs are so alarming you can make a call now.


----------



## InexorableJourney

I wonder if ratings continue to fall over the next year FOX will tap out completely.

Legally FOX could make the argument that they aren't getting the same show that they agreed to buy, which in the bigger picture would be true.


----------



## Ace

InexorableJourney said:


> I wonder if ratings continue to fall over the next year FOX will tap out completely.
> 
> Legally FOX could make the argument that they aren't getting the same show that they agreed to buy, which in the bigger picture would be true.


 if the show continues to do low to sub 2m frequently next year, they should.


----------



## Chrome

The fuckery when Fox cancels WWE and throws their asses in the bushes.


----------



## BrokenFreakingNeck

Raw burying SD! at survivor series didnt help.


----------



## Jedah

When Raw catches a cold, SmackDown gets the flu. Raw's shittiness is dragging SmackDown into the sewer with it.

It's hard to understand why people just don't turn Raw off and watch SD, but that's how things are.


----------



## JDP2016

BrokenFreakingNeck said:


> Raw burying SD! at survivor series didnt help.


I don't agree. Not following up on survivor series didn't help.

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

4.2M combined for RAW and Smackdown is atrocious.Apparently quality factors little into SDL'S ratIngs. This episode was very good. I wonder if a crap show would have near the same rating.


----------



## FROSTY

Shenroe said:


> What, a show with the New Daniel Bryan not cutting you poeple promos like that other lunatic. The MAN Becky lynch, a real tag team scene. Really everything that Raw lacks according to this forum :lmao
> 
> And attendance wise, it's just as bad..


What's the point of this post? Going by your sig you want people to stop watching and going to shows I can only assume so WWE tries to make a better product. But it seems from your post like you more enjoy fans getting mad about low ratings for what was a decent show. Is their something about the WWE you still like, or...? I'm just trying to figure out what keeps you around here.


----------



## HankHill_85

Sincere said:


> FTFY


Man, I hate when people do that on here. It's unoriginal and passive aggressive as fuck.

Quote me and then make a point, don't attempt to undercut or sweep what I said under the rug.


----------



## Sincere

HankHill_85 said:


> Man, I hate when people do that on here. It's unoriginal and passive aggressive as fuck.
> 
> Quote me and then make a point, don't attempt to undercut or sweep what I said under the rug.


I can't imagine how you could have possibly taken that as any kind of aggressive.

That wasn't at all any sort of attempt to "undercut" or "sweep away" what you said.


----------



## Stalingrad9

"Becky's the face of the company, once she comes back SD's rating are going up" :lmao

More seriously, the ratings are becoming laughable.


----------



## fabi1982

I couldnt care less about the ratings, as does WWE. You guys really think they dont have this anticipated and made a clause the networks cant pull out of the contract because of ratings decline? Do you think the networks offered these kind of deals because they thought they will bump ratings in that year?

I just enjoy Smackdown and I will continue to enjoy Smackdown, because it rules!!


----------



## shadows123

fabi1982 said:


> I couldnt care less about the ratings, as does WWE. You guys really think they dont have this anticipated and made a clause the networks cant pull out of the contract because of ratings decline? Do you think the networks offered these kind of deals because they thought they will bump ratings in that year?
> 
> I just enjoy Smackdown and I will continue to enjoy Smackdown, because it rules!!


Yes because thats how TV networks work, sign contracts which they cant get out of.. Ohh it doesnt work, people keep tuning out.. well just keep paying them more money while eating the losses... With Fox especially..considering they seem to have hit the Friday night jackpot with Last man standing (lower budget significantly higher rating).


----------



## fabi1982

shadows123 said:


> Yes because thats how TV networks work, sign contracts which they cant get out of.. Ohh it doesnt work, people keep tuning out.. well just keep paying them more money while eating the losses... With Fox especially..considering they seem to have hit the Friday night jackpot with Last man standing (lower budget significantly higher rating).


So you think this wasnt concidered? So WWE didint know that the ratings will drop? And with the decline over the year you think they told FOX "hey guys, we will be at 3 million end of 2018"?


----------



## shadows123

fabi1982 said:


> So you think this wasnt concidered? So WWE didint know that the ratings will drop? And with the decline over the year you think they told FOX "hey guys, we will be at 3 million end of 2018"?


Considering the money paid out, they would be expecting ratings obviously.. Fox is not stupid to expect advertisers to pay big money for a mediocre rated show, that too a sub 2mn show which keeps on dropping every week..I mean they wouldnt have a fixed guarentee like you mention 3mn viewers ..but they will have a red line which would be a no go for them. .. So obviously the pressure would be on wwe to step up or step aside, from FOX atleast even if USA doesnt...


----------



## fabi1982

shadows123 said:


> Considering the money paid out, they would be expecting ratings obviously.. Fox is not stupid to expect advertisers to pay big money for a mediocre rated show, that too a sub 2mn show which keeps on dropping every week..I mean they wouldnt have a fixed guarentee like you mention 3mn viewers ..but they will have a red line which would be a no go for them. .. So obviously the pressure would be on wwe to step up or step aside, from FOX atleast even if USA doesnt...


But if they are even close to that line, we would see the Undertaker wrestling weekly or any other strange SOS scenarios. Atm they are keeping the interesting storylines, so I think we are far away from any dangerzone. But I agree with you in general.


----------



## shadows123

fabi1982 said:


> But if they are even close to that line, we would see the Undertaker wrestling weekly or any other strange SOS scenarios. Atm they are keeping the interesting storylines, so I think we are far away from any dangerzone. But I agree with you in general.


Yep..USA is kinda OK..its the new deal with Fox which may be potentially problematic considering new network plus high cost..Expect Undertaker, Triple H, Hogan perhaps and a bunch of other old Trip`s buddies back on regular basis when shit goes south :kliq


----------



## fabi1982

shadows123 said:


> Yep..USA is kinda OK..its the new deal with Fox which may be potentially problematic considering new network plus high cost..Expect Undertaker, Triple H, Hogan perhaps and a bunch of other old Trip`s buddies back on regular basis when shit goes south :kliq


And until then I will stay calm and enjoy Smackdown :becky2


----------



## Erik.

The absolute state of wrestling right now :lol


----------



## ClintDagger

fabi1982 said:


> I couldnt care less about the ratings, as does WWE. You guys really think they dont have this anticipated and made a clause the networks cant pull out of the contract because of ratings decline? Do you think the networks offered these kind of deals because they thought they will bump ratings in that year?
> 
> I just enjoy Smackdown and I will continue to enjoy Smackdown, because it rules!!


Forbes (and other outlets) have said Fox can cancel SD just like they can any other show they air.


----------



## tducey

That's interesting about FOX. To me USA and the WWE go together like peanut butter and jelly, they should get to stay together.


----------



## fabi1982

ClintDagger said:


> Forbes (and other outlets) have said Fox can cancel SD just like they can any other show they air.


Thats definitelly not unusual, but like I said, if WWE was in trouble, we would see this in the way the show was produced.


----------



## ClintDagger

fabi1982 said:


> Thats definitelly not unusual, but like I said, if WWE was in trouble, we would see this in the way the show was produced.


I would say Vince all of a sudden writing these shows from scratch is a big change given what they’ve been doing for 15 years. I’m baffled that people think WWE isn’t concerned about these rating drops and attendance drops. USA needs WWE badly but they are now in a position to only afford Raw. If Fox pulls out of SD in a year or two WWE might have no takers for their B show, or they might only get it sold with a huge discount attached. They have to be worried about what’s happening. For a years they hid behind the change in TV landscape and the cord cutting. But now their audience is dropping by a multiple of that trend.


----------



## Stadhart02

ClintDagger said:


> I would say Vince all of a sudden writing these shows from scratch is a big change given what they’ve been doing for 15 years. I’m baffled that people think WWE isn’t concerned about these rating drops and attendance drops. USA needs WWE badly but they are now in a position to only afford Raw. If Fox pulls out of SD in a year or two WWE might have no takers for their B show, or they might only get it sold with a huge discount attached. They have to be worried about what’s happening. For a years they hid behind the change in TV landscape and the cord cutting. But now their audience is dropping by a multiple of that trend.


I can't see that there is anything they can do at this point

WWE as a brand is just stale and noone cares anymore. Apathy is the worst thing that can happen to a company amongst its fans/consumers and as a fan who has watched for countless years I have given up - there is literally nothing they could do now to get me back now


----------



## fabi1982

ClintDagger said:


> I would say Vince all of a sudden writing these shows from scratch is a big change given what they’ve been doing for 15 years. I’m baffled that people think WWE isn’t concerned about these rating drops and attendance drops. USA needs WWE badly but they are now in a position to only afford Raw. If Fox pulls out of SD in a year or two WWE might have no takers for their B show, or they might only get it sold with a huge discount attached. They have to be worried about what’s happening. For a years they hid behind the change in TV landscape and the cord cutting. But now their audience is dropping by a multiple of that trend.


But as far as I read it Vince only writes RAW, which has nothing to do with the FOX deal, what we see on Smackdown is that they are writing it more of the direction FOX wants to have it, more sports less crap and at least thats what they did the last couple of month. So I see more of firefighting on RAW than on Smackdown.

But of course if SD goes down to 1.5m or so FOX will kick them, but even a year with FOX is like what? 3 years of the actual contract now? so enough time to switch finally to the network.


----------



## ClintDagger

Stadhart02 said:


> I can't see that there is anything they can do at this point
> 
> WWE as a brand is just stale and noone cares anymore. Apathy is the worst thing that can happen to a company amongst its fans/consumers and as a fan who has watched for countless years I have given up - there is literally nothing they could do now to get me back now


I totally agree. There’s nothing that can be done without a wholesale change of the people running things. They need their 1993 Eric Bischoff.



fabi1982 said:


> But as far as I read it Vince only writes RAW, which has nothing to do with the FOX deal, what we see on Smackdown is that they are writing it more of the direction FOX wants to have it, more sports less crap and at least thats what they did the last couple of month. So I see more of firefighting on RAW than on Smackdown.
> 
> But of course if SD goes down to 1.5m or so FOX will kick them, but even a year with FOX is like what? 3 years of the actual contract now? so enough time to switch finally to the network.


I disagree. Raw is the bellwether of the entire company. If you are going to turn this trend around it starts with Raw and Vince knows that.


----------



## Jonhern

ClintDagger said:


> I would say Vince all of a sudden writing these shows from scratch is a big change given what they’ve been doing for 15 years. I’m baffled that people think WWE isn’t concerned about these rating drops and attendance drops. USA needs WWE badly but they are now in a position to only afford Raw. If Fox pulls out of SD in a year or two WWE might have no takers for their B show, or they might only get it sold with a huge discount attached. They have to be worried about what’s happening. For a years they hid behind the change in TV landscape and the cord cutting. But now their audience is dropping by a multiple of that trend.


they will always find someone to take it, even at 1.5mil it would be one of the highest watched things on cable. If anything, fox might just push it to a cable channel like FS1 or FS2 to boost the ratings for those channels and demand higher rates from the cable companies for carrying one of the most watched cable channels which anything with SDL will likely become.


----------



## WindPhoenix

Raw ratings reflect Smackdown's. Since Raw got record lows and put on a bad product, that lack of interest carries over to Smackdown.


----------



## ClintDagger

Jonhern said:


> they will always find someone to take it, even at 1.5mil it would be one of the highest watched things on cable. If anything, fox might just push it to a cable channel like FS1 or FS2 to boost the ratings for those channels and demand higher rates from the cable companies for carrying one of the most watched cable channels which anything with SDL will likely become.


I think the question is, will they always find someone to take it at a price they can stomach? Wrestling is not a great product for advertising, prestige, or demographics. That’s why despite the ratings in the past you don’t hear much competition when their contract comes up for bid. Their 1.5MM doesn’t carry as much weight as other types of programming that can achieve that.


----------



## Wildcat410

Smackdown not getting ratings is largely Smackdown's problem, and a statement about the overarching trend of WWE product in general. Thinking Raw being "better" is going to produce some new substantial viewing audience for Smackdown is iffy at best. We have heard similar arguments before about SD itself, and again regarding roster makeups. Those have not worked out to be accurate.

Frankly, the show isn't usually that great either. Better than Raw? Yeah, generally it indeed is. But some amazeballs product that should not be missed? Or is reminiscent of when it really used to be non-miss back in the Attitude Era and shortly thereafter? No, it is not. 

Give me Rock making fun of Big Show, or much of the SD Six era over this anyday. And it is not even that close.


----------



## Ace

I prefer SD but it's obvious the show isn't a priority for them. It's because of that perception less people watch, it basically features guys who they don't value as much as the top stars on Raw.

Hell, their big 4 stomps everyone on SD (Brock, Roman, Braun and Ronda). I'd say they value Seth more too.


----------



## thegockster

This thread once again highlights people really don't have a clue on here about modern day television


----------



## ClintDagger

So it’s pretty clear the ratings issue was at the forefront of how Raw was written this week. Will be interesting to see if any of that bleeds over to SD.


----------



## Mordecay

Ace said:


> I prefer SD but it's obvious the show isn't a priority for them. It's because of that perception less people watch, it basically features guys who they don't value as much as the top stars on Raw.
> 
> Hell, their big 4 stomps everyone on SD (Brock, Roman, Braun and Ronda). I'd say they value Seth more too.


They have booked Becky stronger than Seth and Braun since Summerslam :shrug


----------



## kingnoth1n

*Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

Seriously, worst I have ever seen the product from afar (not currently watching but kinda look over the youtube 30 minute version) some serious changes need to happen, asap. Raw has really soured things here lately, despite the work rate and Becks on SD.


----------



## Ace

Raw drew absolute shit, let's see how Charlotte-Asuka and Bryan-Ali does.

This should give a good indication of whether SD has its own audience or not.


----------



## Hillhank

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

I think they are purposely sabotaging the product at this moment


----------



## ScottyDawgg

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

I don’t want them to give billions of dollars to the man destroying good wrestling, no. I would rather they give the tv deal to a decent wrestling promotion like NJPW.


----------



## Kowalski's Killer

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*



ScottyDawgg said:


> I don’t want them to give billions of dollars to the man destroying good wrestling, no. I would rather they give the tv deal to a decent wrestling promotion like NJPW.


That isn't happening and the deal has already been finalized.


----------



## domotime2

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

the sad part is that it's not the "worst ever". Raw has been real bad for almost 3 years (outside one or two people) but Smackdown has had great years and bad years.


----------



## Frost99

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*



Kowalski's Killer said:


> That isn't happening and the deal has already been finalized.


But there have to be SAFEGUARDS in any contract from a Birthday clown to a Billion Dollar content agreement, there might be an opt out clause all together, or perhaps a clause that see's the contact expiration date moved forward if the E doesn't deliver on rating's ect. 

Again a "done deal" doesn't mean there isn't a way out of it, much like Big Shows "Iron Clad" Contract from back in 2012......#DarkDays


----------



## ScottyDawgg

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*



Kowalski's Killer said:


> That isn't happening and the deal has already been finalized.


Yes, I know that the deal has been finalized and what isn’t happening? Vince isn’t being given billions of dollars? I hope they can improve the product since they want to make big changes to it but do I want Vince to lose the deal? You bet I do, he doesn’t deserve it.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

They already did below 2 million last week even with a good main event going under 2 million for the first time in AGES. Will be interesting to see if they do it again.


----------



## Ace

Showstopper said:


> They already did below 2 million last week even with a good main event going under 2 million for the first time in AGES. Will be interesting to see if they do it again.


 Those matches were advertised in advance.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Ace said:


> Those matches were advertised in advance.


Wow, really? AJ/Rusev was announced before hand? 
:trips8


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

No.

Loosing big deals like that is the only way WWE will improve.

I do think however you're better off hoping they lose the USA Raw deal.

If Smackdown gets cancelled it'll hurt but Vince won't really care as it's clear he doesn't really care about Smackdown. If Raw were to get cancelled it would be the kick in the balls needed to possibly get Vince to give a shit again.


----------



## Ace

Showstopper said:


> Wow, really? AJ/Rusev was announced before hand?
> :trips8


 I meant Charlotte/Asuka and Bryan/Ali.

Where did AJ/Rusev coming from?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Ace said:


> I mean't Charlotte/Asuka and Bryan/Ali.


Ah okay. I was talking about last week with the 1.9.


----------



## Ace

Showstopper said:


> Ah okay. I was talking about last week with the 1.9.


 AJ/Miz was made after the MizTV segment, speaking for myself I stopped after the first 40 mins. Didn't think AJ would appear because they didn't promote him and thought they would just have the usual shtick of the heel doing an interview and baby running out to attack him. Not that it would have helped, AJ has been dead for a while.


----------



## Sincere

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

So you want the deal for the show that actually manages to be at least half-decent more often than not to get screwed instead of the deal for Raw--a show that is consistently garbage--because you think that will somehow improve things?

Wouldn't that just mean that Vince trashes SD even more and doubles-down on Raw?

Yes, I'm sure things will be much better then. fpalm


----------



## candice-wrestling

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

I think we should want the FOX deal because from the looks of it they might actually force WWE to improve things.


----------



## Mr.S

Really wonderful job for SD IMO. The ratings are solid @ 1.95M vs 2.2M odd for RAW. That is a very narrow band & RAW has all the stars, storyline & beat SD 6-0. 

Raw usually used to draw 0.5-0.6M more than SD on an average & I don't if SD has ever beaten RAW. But given how bad WWE is & RAW especially, I wouldn't be surprised if RAW & SD both end up doing around 2M with SD edging RAW. Ofcourse none of the stars draw today but if you had AJ & his shi**t reigns, we would be @ 1-1.5M with SD with RAW doing so terribly !


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Ace said:


> Raw drew absolute shit, let's see how Charlotte-Asuka and Bryan-Ali does.
> 
> This should give a good indication of whether SD has its own audience or not.



I would submit that so little deviation from their RAW retention rate for so many weeks is a big indicator that they share the same audience and lose viewers through attrition and name brand power. Smackdown is the red headed step child to RAW's golden child status.

I am excited to see how much lower the Road to Mania is this year. :mark


----------



## A PG Attitude

It was worse in 2012 and fall 2015.


----------



## kingnoth1n

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*



A PG Attitude said:


> It was worse in 2012 and fall 2015.


I really don't want to look those eras up, can't stomach it but what was going on? I remember braving through those years; I can't even stomach it these days.


----------



## Kratosx23

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

I'd rather they lost tv altogether, both deals, and had to fight for tv back, to even make it on some shitty network like TNA is on. Unfortunately, with Vince in charge, that would probably mean WWE would fold entirely.....but hey, then all the talent would just go elsewhere and be used properly, so whatever I guess.


----------



## InexorableJourney

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

The thing that would make this most likely would be if there was an immediate replacement ready to take SDL's spot.

And at this time, there is not.


The only thing this would mean to Vince would be one less ivory back scratcher.


----------



## Frenetic Zetetic

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

It's almost like WWE has no incentive to improve.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

Yes, it is bad. It's stupid to want someone to fail. How much of your life is invested in WWE that it has affected you in this manner?

Beyond that WWE would just go back to USA and get a deal similar to RAW for SD and nothing would change anyway. The stock price may drop a little. It certainly won't force them to rethink their creative process and it's likely that either will FOX. Fox isn't going to be producing the show they are simply paying WWE for content to air on their network. They can say that they want WWE to do all kinds of things but it doesn't mean that WWE will accommodate them and do it.


----------



## Kratosx23

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*



MonkasaurusRex said:


> Yes, it is bad. It's stupid to want someone to fail.


Nobody wants them to fail, but failure is the only thing these people understand. If they don't fail, they'll never make any changes. This company needs to be dragged nearly to the point of extinction at this point for there to be any hope of it being brought back to a healthy state.


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

I mean that wouldn't be good for your favorite wrestlers or the families they have to feed, but who cares as long as a billionaire gets marginally inconvenienced.


----------



## Kowalski's Killer

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*



Frenetic Zetetic said:


> It's almost like WWE has no incentive to improve.


Their incentive is that Fox is expecting them and they need to make a big splash for the new Smackdown. At least initially Smackdown can no longer be the B show. They are going to have to pull out all the stops to show Fox that they are invested in and worth the investment.

I truly wish the product would greatly improve, but am I the only one who enjoys the fact that there is wrestling fairly regularly on my television?


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

Its completely understandable. Its not so much about seeing them fail, its not seeing mediocrity or just flat out terribleness rewarded. This FOX deal rewards WWE for being so bad.


----------



## Frenetic Zetetic

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*



Kowalski's Killer said:


> Their incentive is that Fox is expecting them and they need to make a big splash for the new Smackdown. At least initially Smackdown can no longer be the B show. They are going to have to pull out all the stops to show Fox that they are invested in and worth the investment.
> 
> I truly wish the product would greatly improve, but am I the only one who enjoys the fact that there is wrestling fairly regularly on my television?


I feel you. I also agree it's cool that there is so much wrestling. I just wish there was a little more quality with that quantity when it comes to WWE product (I think most of us do).


----------



## Kratosx23

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*



Kowalski's Killer said:


> I truly wish the product would greatly improve, but am I the only one who enjoys the fact that there is wrestling fairly regularly on my television?


Probably. Why does it matter if there's wrestling fairly regularly on your television if the characters suck, the promos are all scripted, overly produced, unnatural garbage, there's like 5 people in the entire company who are over, fan reaction is completely ignored, everybody wrestles the exact same style with no variance or originality, there's never anything that makes sense, things that happened last week can be ignored at the drop of a hat, and they do 100 god damn segments a week with the general manager because they don't care about anything but filling tv time. Among other things.

Suppose you were coming over to somebodys place for Thanksgiving. When you get there, the turkey is burnt to a crisp and the dog ate half and then pissed all over it. Do you still go "Thank God we're having turkey!"


----------



## #BestForBusiness

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

Not at all. Normally, I wouldn't want harm or bad karma to happen to others, but Vince is a different story. The man is destroying wrestling rather than popularizing it, and he refused to listen to his audience and continues to shit on us over and over again. 

Surprisingly Smackdown is so much better, but not by much.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

What does them failing do though? Them failing doesn't mean you get a product you want, nor does them failing improve or help the competition. Don't like somebody's content makes more sense to not consume it, than to wish it fails. Wanting somebody to fail is peak hater shit.


----------



## Stalingrad9

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

Yeah it is. You should probably just stop watching WWE and focus on other promotions. More importantly, you should try to get a life and do something with it.


----------



## Greatsthegreats

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

It only sounds bad if you dont add something on the end like "and for all the innocent involved to find another sturdy job, god bless America."

if you just want the tv show cancelled then chances are it won't destroy WWE nor change their overall business model or their attitude

If you, like me, want a cancellation to result in WWE to not be publically traded anymore and be run instead by reasonable people then no


----------



## Jason C. Doucette

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

As long as WWE keeps getting network contracts like the ones that they're signing, there really is no motivation for them to improve their product. 

We all know the highest quality product was a result from WWE feeling the pressure from a true competitor... all they have to do is treat the people NOT watching their product now as their true competitor - and these days, competition is fierce. 

Bring the battle to the competitor guys.... it's still there!!


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

Yes it is Bad. You probably should stop watching it if you get to this point in wanting them to fail.


----------



## Hillhank

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

At this point I think they are purposely tanking and the Fox deal is set in stone.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*



Kowalski's Killer said:


> They are going to have to pull out all the stops to show Fox that they are invested in and worth the investment.
> 
> I truly wish the product would greatly improve, but am I the only one who enjoys the fact that there is wrestling fairly regularly on my television?


1. This is said every single time WWE is sucking it up. "They have to get better, they are just so bad right now"....that's been said for the last 6-10 years, and the correlation was WWE becoming worth more and more. There is absolutely no incentive to put on a good product. You think FOX has not looked at WWE's downward spiral in the ratings and seen that it was a terrible deal? There is something being missed in translation.

2. Yes, I love beeing able to watch Impact, MLW, LU. NJPW and ROH are decent too but not something I would watch. With that said, WWE is just unbearable to get through for me.


----------



## Jam

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

You should want better not worse that's how I see it 

Alternative is to stop watching, I don't watch most of the time & feel great


----------



## Robbyfude

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

Just stop watching the show and just lurk the live threads and laugh at the idiots who still do.


----------



## Papadoc81

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

Best to just stop watching. Because like it or not, you are essentially apart of the problem. You think Fox would hand WWE this deal if they were delivering only 1 million viewers a week.

If you’re not apart of the solution you’re apart of the problem. A lot of fans who are sick of the current product need to come to grips with this unavoidable fact. Regardless of all the constant ranting online you’re viewership and subscription contribution is all the matters. 

Last time Vince was willing to make huge changes was when he was in danger of getting put out business. Need I say more.


----------



## HankHill_85

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

So Raw has been so bad in your eyes that you want Fox to pull out of their TV deal in order to harm Smackdown?

Love that smark logic!


----------



## Mister Abigail

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

Fickle. Fickle. Fickle. Fickle. FICKLE.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 12/11/18 Vs 12/4/18 ):
1.977M Vs 1.948M ( + 0.029M / + 1.49% )
0.680D Vs 0.660D

SDL Vs RAW:
1.977M Vs 2.194M ( - 0.217M / 90.11% )
0.680D Vs 0.757D*

*Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 11th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 12/11/18 Vs 12/12/17 ):
1.977M Vs 2.481M ( - 0.504M / - 20.31% )
0.680D Vs 0.710D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.481M Vs 2.685M ( - 0.204M / 92.40% )
0.710D Vs 0.847D

Note: SDL this week last year was 6th by demo & 13th by viewership.*










Cumulative RAW/SDL viewership of 4.171M ( 2.194M + 1.977M) is lower than last week's record low of 4.234M (2.286M + 1.948M).

First time ever consecutive SDL viewerships have dipped below 2M.


----------



## Ace

Another sub 2m rating, but a good retention rate.

By no means is this a good # but we all know by now SD's audience is the Raw audience minus those who don't want to watch 5 hrs of WWE a week. They don't really have their own audience so to expect them to do better than Raw is unrealistic.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Besides being under 2 million for the second week, the thing that jumps out most at me is that they are over 20% lower than this week last year. That's 20% of your audience in one calendar year. 1/5 of your audience gone in a year is kinda crazy.


----------



## HankHill_85

I hate that Raw is snatching Smackdown by the ankles and pulling it down with it. It's a far better program that deserves the bigger audience, but wrestling fans can be a choosy bunch.


----------



## Ace

HankHill_85 said:


> I hate that Raw is snatching Smackdown by the ankles and pulling it down with it. It's a far better program that deserves the bigger audience, but wrestling fans can be a choosy bunch.


 Habit and perception. SD is the b show so if a fan is going to choose one show to watch, it's probably going to be the one with the bigger stars and higher priority. The gap between them is only going to widen once NFL season is over.


----------



## llj

"At least it's not a new low..." is the operative word for this week's SD.


----------



## Ace

llj said:


> "At least it's not a new low..." is the operative word for this week's SD.


 They'll probably do that in the coming weeks. Almost a given with the Christmas day show.

Either way, this is the third lowest SD rating since the split and the first time they've done sub 2m for consecutive weeks. The all time low happened against the Trump v Hilary debate and was something a lot of the world was watching.

It's going to be funny if the show starts doing the #s it use to do when it was a Raw recap show.

Fox should be alarmed, they've been hoodwinked, bamboozled, led astray, run amuck, and flat out deceived by Vince.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Ace said:


> Another sub 2m rating, but a good retention rate.
> 
> By no means is this a good # but we all know by now SD's audience is the Raw audience minus those who don't want to watch 5 hrs of WWE a week. They don't really have their own audience so to expect them to do better than Raw is unrealistic.


90% is on the higher end for them. The times they do pique the interest of RAW viewers who don't watch are with an invasion angle where those fans want to see a continuation of the story or a special appearance by Vince/anniversary episode.

Smackdown was down 20% year to year while I believe that RAW was 18% down. The ship is sinking but Vince is rich from both shows. You want Smackdown to rise? Rest assured it will "coincide" with a RAW increase.

This week's rating is virtually the same as last week's. Nothing to celebrate save the fact that it didn't fall even more. There's always next week for that. :bryanlol


----------



## Ace

SHIVVY POO IV: THE FINAL CHAPTER said:


> 90% is on the higher end for them. The times they do pique the interest of RAW viewers who don't watch are with an invasion angle where those fans want to see a continuation of the story or a special appearance by Vince/anniversary episode.
> 
> Smackdown was down 20% year to year while I believe that RAW was 18% down. The ship is sinking but Vince is rich from both shows. You want Smackdown to rise? Rest assured it will "coincide" with a RAW increase.
> 
> This week's rating is virtually the same as last week's. Nothing to celebrate save the fact that it didn't fall even more. There's always next week for that. :bryanlol


 I want both shows to tank, Raw and SD need an overhaul. 

Ratings dying is the only way to get through to them.


----------



## Chrome

500,000 less people are watching this year than last. Ooof.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Not including the latest numbers, SDL has 82.1% RAW retention for the year. I do expect the Road to Mania to bolster both shows ratings but probably still down substantially in year to year.


----------



## ChatWWE

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

No that's a normal thought to have


----------



## Krin

I have mixed feelings. I want them to hurt so they're forced to go back to trying and get rid of pg.


----------



## JDP2016

Charlotte got her ass beat for nothing.

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## Kratosx23

Ace said:


> Fox should be alarmed, they've been hoodwinked, bamboozled, led astray, run amuck, and flat out deceived by Vince.







1:40



Chrome said:


> 500,000 less people are watching this year than last. Ooof.


Some star "The Man" is. :sadbecky


----------



## Chrome

Tyrion Lannister said:


> Some star "The Empress" is. :asuka


*Fixed.


----------



## Mordecay

Put the IIconics on the main event once in a while, they can't do much worse than all the overpushed favourites :shrug


----------



## Bobholly39

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

Yes it's bad


as a lifetime prowrestling fan, i'm ecstatic to see the company doing so well financially. It's good for the business. 

OP you're being petty and jealous. Ugly traits. Grow up?


----------



## Rain

I don’t ever see the ratings improving. If the attitude era happened today and this shit era happened back then the ratings still wouldn’t go up. No one wants to watch cable with all the advertisements 

Leave SD alone though imo. Leave Miz and Bryan together on the same brand. Time for a tag run when the big titles dropped.


----------



## Prosper

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

Well FOX is not gonna have that. They really want WWE on their channel to go in tandem with UFC. FOX will come down on WWE hard if the ratings stay like this. Then Vince will be forced to give us real change. FOX is Vince's boss now. Not the other way around. I don't want them to lose the deal, I just want there to be drastic change.


----------



## Ace

When you miss the complete collapse of ratings by 2 weeks










AJ and Roman (cancer aside of course..................) are fortunate not to be associated with this mess.


----------



## The_It_Factor

Ace said:


> I want both shows to tank, Raw and SD need an overhaul.
> 
> Ratings dying is the only way to get through to them.


I’m right there with you, but ratings have been dying for years and things have only gotten worse (from what I can tell - I haven’t watched raw or smack down in years, but the ppv’s I catch are usually pretty terrible, and I try to stay up to date via this forum)

Whoever had the idea of the brand split, with an already “meh” roster that had little-to-no-direction, should be fired or resign.... I wish I could remember all the names of those who told me that I was stupid for saying it was a bad idea, and who claimed it would re-vitalize the company as a whole :lol


----------



## Kratosx23

Chrome said:


> *Fixed.


fpalm 

Asuka is an irrelevant nobody who they devote zero time and effort to. You're really gonna blame somebody who isn't pushed for the ratings? Becky is the most promoted, pushed, featured star on the brand and SmackDown is in the worst shape it's ever been in.


----------



## Donnie

:lmao WWE dying :yoda


----------



## Chrome

Tyrion Lannister said:


> fpalm
> 
> Asuka is an irrelevant nobody who they devote zero time and effort to. You're really gonna blame somebody who isn't pushed for the ratings? Becky is the most promoted, pushed, featured star on the brand and SmackDown is in the worst shape it's ever been in.


It was a joke Pyro lol. Blame Becky if you wish, but this is obviously Vince and creative's fault.


----------



## Kratosx23

Yeah, well, I don't respond well to "jokes" about Asuka. They're not funny. Vince puts me through enough without having to hear stuff like that. Joke after she wins the title (which will never happen).

Is it Vince and creatives fault? I mean.....yes, it is, because they're featuring crap. What more do people want, though? Everybody apparently loves her creative direction, and that's what the show is focused around. All I hear about is how Becky Lynch deserves to main event WrestleMania because she's so much better than everyone else. She deserves to main event WrestleMania even though they push her harder than anyone else in the company and she can't draw a penny. Sure. Carmella drew better ratings than her.....somehow. Vince was still in charge then.


----------



## Eric Fleischer

Tyrion Lannister said:


> fpalm
> 
> Asuka is an irrelevant nobody who they devote zero time and effort to. You're really gonna blame somebody who isn't pushed for the ratings? *Becky is the most promoted, pushed, featured star on the brand* and SmackDown is in the worst shape it's ever been in.


LOL, not really.


----------



## Kratosx23

Eric Fleischer said:


> LOL, not really.


Becky's in the main event every fucking week. Who's the top star then? Charlotte? Charlotte has been Becky's personal jobber since SummerSlam and is only featured in main events as a secondary character to Becky. The entire brand is about her.


----------



## Ace

Tyrion Lannister said:


> Becky's in the main event every fucking week. Who's the top star then? Charlotte? Charlotte has been Becky's personal jobber since SummerSlam and is only featured in main events as a secondary character to Becky. The entire brand is about her.


 It's been a combination of Bryan and Charlotte since WM and of late Becky. 

It was AJ copping the flak for them for months because he was world champion and supposedly ratings are on the champion even when he's not the focus, but since he's dropped the title it's open season on all 3 for those who were giving shit to AJ earlier. Funnily enough they've all disappeared.

Best part in all this is AJ dropped the title weeks before the show's ratings died, leaving no one to take the heat for them. 

Supposedly AJ was the one who brought up the idea of dropping the title, talk about perfect timing. He would have become a ratings meme like HBK and Nash :lmao

FYI my opinion on this has always remained the same, it's too fun to throw the same logic back.


----------



## Eric Fleischer

Tyrion Lannister said:


> Becky's in the main event every fucking week. Who's the top star then? Charlotte? Charlotte has been Becky's personal jobber since SummerSlam.


Look, we know you absolutely despise her. You've made it clear. Maybe you're a contrarian or maybe you're just oblivious. But she's been the champ like what, two or three months now? She hasn't earned her time at the top? You _honestly _ can't admit she's stepped up her game and has a character that people are into? It's that hard for you to admit that yeah, maybe she's over with the crowds? Are you seriously claiming people weren't going crazy for her a month ago?

The claim she is pushed harder than anyone in the company is laughable.

She's not featured in USA's WWE promo ads (Charlotte was)

She's not featured in WWE Shop TV ads (Bliss was)

How is she in the *main event* every week? Her last match on TV versus Nikki Cross was in the middle of the show. A few weeks before that she fought Lana at like the bottom of the second hour if I recall right. I willing to bet that your girl Asuka being in two main events in the last three weeks is actually more than Becky's been in since she won the strap.

She only like yesterday got on the "featured stars" banner on WWE Shop.com.


Despite that her Rumble Axxess sold out in four minutes (I guess the company bought all the tickets to make her look good)


Blaming her or any individual star for the ratings is idiotic. RAW is down, she has nothing to do with that. Nevermind the night she DID show up, social media went nuts saying "TURN ON RAW RIGHT FUCKING NOW". For once, RAW _was _trending nationwide. Unfortunately, RAW pulls the cart and Smackdown follows and people don't want to sit thru another 2 hours of WWE if they think it's more of the same. And it's too bad, because SD is superior and I don't waste my time Mondays.

Quite frankly she hasn't really done anything the last couple weeks due to injury, so I'm not exactly seeing why you think she's responsible, other than you hate her and want her future endeavored. A match was advertised with Charlotte and Asuka, not her. But I don't blame Asuka for the rating being under 2 million views. But now I guess if you say so I can.


----------



## Kratosx23

Ace said:


> It's been a combination of Bryan and Charlotte since WM and of late Becky.
> 
> It was AJ copping the flak for them for months because he was world champion and supposedly ratings are on the champion even when he's not the focus, but since he's dropped the title it's open season on all 3 for those who were giving shit to AJ earlier.
> 
> What's hilarious in all this is AJ dropped weeks before the show's ratings died leaving those 3 to point the finger at. Supposedly AJ was the one who brought up the idea of dropping the title, talk about perfect timing :lmao


Bryan isn't relevant, he's a midcard champion like AJ. Becky is plastered all over WWE everywhere you look and Charlotte is her personal jobber. I guess you can argue that Charlotte is dragging down Becky by association with her, and I'm sure that's true to a certain extent, but.....come on. She's supposed to be this red hot character who's being compared to Stone Cold Steve Austin, and these are the results we get. It doesn't surprise me, because when I see her, I turn off immediately, and it sounds like everyone else does too.


----------



## Eric Fleischer

Tyrion Lannister said:


> Bryan isn't relevant, he's a midcard champion like AJ. Becky is plastered all over WWE everywhere you look and Charlotte is her personal jobber. I guess you can argue that Charlotte is dragging down Becky by association with her, and I'm sure that's true to a certain extent, but.....come on. She's supposed to be this red hot character who's being compared to Stone Cold Steve Austin, and these are the results we get. It doesn't surprise me, *because when I see her, I turn off immediately*, and it sounds like everyone else does too.


So you turned off a match involving your girl? 



You should think before you post, if possible.


----------



## FROSTY

Ace said:


> It's been a combination of Bryan and Charlotte since WM and of late Becky.
> 
> It was AJ copping the flak for them for months because he was world champion and supposedly ratings are on the champion even when he's not the focus, but since he's dropped the title it's open season on all 3 for those who were giving shit to AJ earlier. Funnily enough they've all disappeared.
> 
> Best part in all this is AJ dropped the title weeks before the show's ratings died, leaving no one to take the heat for them.
> 
> Supposedly AJ was the one who brought up the idea of dropping the title, talk about perfect timing. He would have become a ratings meme like HBK and Nash :lmao
> 
> FYI my opinion on this has always remained the same, it's too fun to throw the same logic back.


This is like the 51st time you've posted the same thing. Whether it's in chat or posts, all you talk about anymore, all you post is this shit right here. Followed by :lol :lmao We get it already, you're almost freakishly happy AJ can't be blamed for bad ratings. Can you change the broken record now :trips7


----------



## DoolieNoted

The ratings are shit because WWE in general is shit.

You can have the best performers or hottest properties in the world, but if it all seems like it was written on a napkin by a drooling fuckwit no-one will stick around.


----------



## Ace

FROSTED TARASENK O's said:


> This is like the 51st time you've posted the same thing. Whether it's in chat or posts, all you talk about anymore, all you post is this shit right here. Followed by :lol :lmao We get it already, you're almost freakishly happy AJ can't be blamed for bad ratings. Can you change the broken record now :trips7


 You seem hurt these ratings have come under Bryan's reign as the top male star and world champion of SD.

Relax, it's been established for a while that it makes little difference who's on top. Just getting mine back at those who were blaming AJ's boring title reign for SD's declining ratings for almost a year. 

Bryan's NEW and improved title reign along with the refresh on SD couldn't stop the fall, in fact the decline has accelerated but that's just a coincidence and would have occurred with any other world champion.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Tyrion Lannister said:


> Bryan isn't relevant, he's a midcard champion like AJ. Becky is plastered all over WWE everywhere you look and Charlotte is her personal jobber. I guess you can argue that Charlotte is dragging down Becky by association with her, and I'm sure that's true to a certain extent, but.....come on. She's supposed to be this red hot character who's being compared to Stone Cold Steve Austin, and these are the results we get. It doesn't surprise me, *because when I see her, I turn off immediately*, and it sounds like everyone else does too.


You sure do seem to post a lot about her though.

The ratings are down as a whole anyway. The product is close to an all time bad level. Blaming the womens champion, who outside of taking a beat down at the end of the show, was given 1 minute of unadvertised tv time this week is pretty crazy.

The show was build around the WrestleMania rematch, and I ain't blaming Asuka or Charlotte for the rating. The company should be the ones held accountable. I don't blame Ronda or... well, Seth I guess, for the Raw ratings either.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Ace said:


> *When you miss the complete collapse of ratings by 2 weeks*
> 
> AJ and Roman (cancer aside of course..................) are fortunate not to be associated with this mess.


Nonsense. AJ main evented one of those two weeks and was champion for almost 11 months of falling ratings. Champion for almost 11 months but not associated with the decline at all? fpalm You sound delusional when you try to spin it as those two weeks vindicate AJ's ratings run. That reminds me. Stop trying to take credit for the first three months being slightly higher. If you were paying attention, those three months are the Road to Mania and are always higher. :fact

You also credit AJ with the modest .04 increase in ratings from 2016-2017. AJ was champion for only a little more than three months in 2017 yet you want to credit him for the entire year. You do the exact opposite for 2018 which highlights your trademark inconsistency. Give him the lion's share of credit when he is champ for 1/4 of the year yet absolve him when he is champ for over 5/6 of the year.

Personally, I don't fully blame him at all because without the proper data one cannot precisely assign blame for the ratings. It's a collective effort and all the talent share some responsibility but the writers are the most culpable.


----------



## Ace

SHIVVY POO IV: THE FINAL CHAPTER said:


> Nonsense. AJ main evented one of those two weeks and was champion for almost 11 months of falling ratings. Champion for almost 11 months but not associated with the decline at all? fpalm You sound delusional when you try to spin it as those two weeks vindicate AJ's ratings run. That reminds me. Stop trying to take credit for the first three months being slightly higher. If you were paying attention, those three months are the Road to Mania and are always higher. :fact
> 
> You also credit AJ with the modest .04 increase in ratings from 2016-2017. AJ was champion for only a little more than three months in 2017 yet you want to credit him for the entire year. You do the exact opposite for 2018 which highlights your trademark inconsistency. Give him the lion's share of credit when he is champ for 1/4 of the year yet absolve him when he is champ for over 5/6 of the year.
> 
> Personally, I don't fully blame him at all because without the proper data one cannot precisely assign blame for the ratings. It's a collective effort and all the talent share some responsibility but the writers are the most culpable.


 1) AJ wasn't advertised for the show.

2) He isn't the world champion.

3) AJ hasn't been among the top 3 stars on SD since WM, he's featured and promoted less than Bryan, Charlotte and Becky. He spent most of 2018 on the mat selling low blows, but who wouldn't want to see their favorite get kicked in the balls every second week..

4) Most of that SD was built around Bryan, like most SD's this year and this week's which once again did sub 2m. The main event match was secondary as Bryan and the rest of the commentary babbled on with some hippy nonsense during the match which is enough to make most tune out. Why should you care about a match when the commentators don't?

5) AJ rarely appears on the show, most wouldn't have even expected him to appear considering his SD booking. I'm someone who didn't bother watching because I assumed AJ wouldn't appear or make the babyface run in to run off Bryan.

6) 40 mins of the first hr was dedicated to the women, which is more than enough to force people out who do not care about womens wrestling.

7) The following week the show barely did any better with a WM rematch promoted in advance and Bryan match against a favorite advertised in advance.

*8. Majority of the highest rated SD's post split have featured AJ in the main event.*

With all that said, it wouldn't have mattered who was in the main event because no one draws. At least with AJ, he has a good track record and is the only SD star who has been a top merch seller the last 3 years. No one else has cracked the top 5 from SD, AJ has consistently been top 3 and was going back and forth with Roman for 2nd last year.


----------



## FROSTY

Ace said:


> You seem hurt these ratings have come under Bryan's reign as the top male star and world champion of SD.
> 
> Relax, it's been established for a while that it makes little difference who's on top. Just getting mine back at those who were blaming AJ's boring title reign for SD's declining ratings for almost a year.
> 
> Bryan's NEW and improved title reign along with the refresh on SD couldn't stop the fall, in fact the decline has accelerated but that's just a coincidence and would have occurred with any other world champion.


How, in the world do I sound hurt? I'm telling you it's annoying, I'm not the only one. How many people besides me have told you all this you carry on about every week makes you sound very bitter. I've seen others besides myself say it, they way you keep coming to AJ's defense even though there isn't anyone saying anything about him is starting to come off like a weird obsession.


----------



## Ace

FROSTED TARASENK O's said:


> How, in the world do I sound hurt? I'm telling you it's annoying, I'm not the only one. How many people besides me have told you all this you carry on about every week makes you sound very bitter. I've seen others besides myself say it, they way you keep coming to AJ's defense even though there isn't anyone saying anything about him is starting to come off like a weird obsession.


I'm gloating that AJ avoided this after having to defend AJ for over a fucking year about how bad his title reign is and how AJ is killing the ratings. It's mostly Bryan marks who are irritated by it, because it's Bryan who is catching the heat of record low ratings. Don't be offended, most who were following these ratings knew they were going to come whether AJ was champ or not.

Most others seem fine with it because they know I'm having my fun being vindicated and seeing the company burn while getting some back for the year of shit AJ fans got on here. This is nothing compared to the shit we had to put up for over a year.


----------



## Kratosx23

Eric Fleischer said:


> So you turned off a match involving your girl?
> 
> 
> 
> You should think before you post, if possible.


No. I didn't watch the match because I wasn't home. I was doing shit I care about. Then I read the results and it was exactly what I expected, I didn't care and skipped it.



SayWhatAgain! said:


> You sure do seem to post a lot about her though.
> 
> The ratings are down as a whole anyway. The product is close to an all time bad level. Blaming the womens champion, who outside of taking a beat down at the end of the show, was given 1 minute of unadvertised tv time this week is pretty crazy.
> 
> The show was build around the WrestleMania rematch, and I ain't blaming Asuka or Charlotte for the rating. The company should be the ones held accountable. I don't blame Ronda or... well, Seth I guess, for the Raw ratings either.


I have to post about her. She's directly in the way of the person I want to see get pushed. If she gets out of the way, I'll stop posting about her. Jeff Hardy is my most hated wrestler of all time, by far, it's not even close, and I don't think I've said a word about him since he's been back in WWE, minus now, explaining why I haven't, because he's out of the way. I used to talk about Roman, and now I don't, because why would I? He's not on television. Becky is directly holding Asuka down by holding the belt. And yes, it's not her fault she's holding the belt, it's Vince's, but she's happy to take the spot, she deserves some of the blame.

The product has been at an all time bad level for a long time now, that's not an excuse. If she's such a hot character and she's so popular beyond the IWC fans, then do something about the ratings. Otherwise, I don't want to hear about her main eventing WrestleMania. Earn your spot if you're "The Man". Turn the cold product hot. If she can't do that, she ain't the man. Give Asuka a run that lasts as long as Becky, as the most pushed, promoted, featured star on the brand and the ratings won't be this bad. They may not fix the ratings entirely, but they won't be this bad.


----------



## Eric Fleischer

Yeah, how dare she get herself over after eating a crap sandwich for two years. But I'm sure it's been a long seven months for you, I empathize.

I hope Becky does something about these ratings. They should give her a Nielsen box.


----------



## Kratosx23

I believe this is where the old "if a tree falls in the forest" adage is appropriate.


----------



## Not Lying

Seriously people. Brock being champion again, investing 4 years in trying to make Roman FOTC only for him to leave, and the humiliation of SD on SurvivorSeries FOR NOTHING, are all factors to take into this. 

And are we supposed to forget about the period between April-SummerSlam where Bryan was feuding with Cass? AJ with Nakamura in an underwhelming and horribly booked feud? Carmella embarrassing Asuka and making her look like an idiot? While on RAW you had a no Show champion? 
You can't make people eat shit for a long time, then give them a little of what they want and watch them return.

I still think what happened at SurvivorSeries was embarrassingly stupid, the 6-0 and Brock champ again is just ridiculous.


----------



## Eric Fleischer

"Perception is reality"

Who said that....hmm....


----------



## Kratosx23

The Definition of Technician said:


> Seriously people. Brock being champion again, investing 4 years in trying to make Roman FOTC only for him to leave, and the humiliation of SD on SurvivorSeries FOR NOTHING, are all factors to take into this.
> 
> And are we supposed to forget about the period between April-SummerSlam where Bryan was feuding with Cass? AJ with Nakamura in an underwhelming and horribly booked feud? Carmella embarrassing Asuka and making her look like an idiot? While on RAW you had a no Show champion?
> You can't make people eat shit for a long time, then give them a little of what they want and watch them return.
> 
> I still think what happened at SurvivorSeries was embarrassingly stupid, the 6-0 and Brock champ again is just ridiculous.


A LITTLE? She's been the champion for months and beaten Charlotte every time they've wrestled outside of a triple threat that was designed specifically to turn her heel and push her. What more do you want, a fucking parade? Her name carved into the front of the White House?


----------



## Eric Fleischer

Tyrion Lannister said:


> A LITTLE? What more do you want, a fucking parade? Her name carved into the front of the White House?


Who's "her"?


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Eric Fleischer said:


> Tyrion Lannister said:
> 
> 
> 
> A LITTLE? What more do you want, a fucking parade? Her name carved into the front of the White House? <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0" alt="" title="rolleyes" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> 
> Who's "her"?
Click to expand...

He's obviously talking about becky. 

His point being "if she's so hot why isn't she drawing" 

I can see his point but the issue at the moment is far bigger than Becky Lynch.


----------



## Ace

Meltzer is someone who hasn't put too much thought into the ratings citing their big TV deals and the company being too big to fail. 

The last few weeks with record lows he's actually started to bring them up as a concern. Then there was Vince acknowledging the record lows on TV in storyline.

I think we're at a point where the WWE may actually start to work hard on shows because the whole "see you next week" stuff doesn't work anymore and they're bleeding viewers at a crazy rate.


----------



## Mordecay

Whoever thinks that Becky hasn't been the most pushed star on SD since Summerslam hasn't been paying attention to the show. I won't blame her entirely for the ratings and say that it is only her fault, those ratings are a combinations of factors, but pretending that she doesn't have ANY responsability when the show has been built around her is delusional.


----------



## Kratosx23

Ace said:


> I think we're at a point where the WWE may actually start to work hard on shows because the whole "see you next week" stuff doesn't work anymore and they're bleeding viewers at a crazy rate.


God help us. If Vince isn't working hard now, if he's on auto pilot, and his auto pilot ruins everything it touches, I want to see how bad the shows are when he's actually putting forth effort. That sounds horrifying. 

I'll believe it when I see it, though. They're openly mocking their low ratings now.


----------



## Stalingrad9

THE MAN hahahaha. Funny how the narrative has changed in such a small period. It was "yeah Becky's gonna turn it around, she's the hottest thing in WWE, SD is gonna beat RAW" to "WWE was doing shitty stuff before Becky, she wasn't gonna change anything it's not her fault". Obviously a lot of overhype going around.

But more seriously, Smackdown is always gonna be the B-Show, simply because it is the B-Show. It doesn't feel as big as RAW. And Paige and Shane are equally as bad if not worse than Steph and Baron, because at least Baron and Steph are heels.
And the show was baaaad. Like seriously, Mustapha Ali ? He looked like a local jobber, and that's compared to Daniel Bryan who is not Mr.Look himself. D-Bry is a typical mid card heel, talking about cities. 
The Mid thinks a trophy is a child, while still pretending to be an A-Lister and we're supposed to take this motherfucked seriously as a possible main-event character.
Becky is getting more cringeworthy show after show, which is a shame because she was so great a few weeks/months ago. Asuka getting somewhat of a push could be a good news, but I really doubt they'll ever do something with her. But she's really grown on me the last 2 or 3 SD.
The rap battle was a fucking disappointment, with The Bar being funny but not knowing how to diss somebody, and the Usos thinking they're some professional rappers.

Deserved ratings


----------



## Not Lying

Tyrion Lannister said:


> A LITTLE? She's been the champion for months and beaten Charlotte every time they've wrestled outside of a triple threat that was designed specifically to turn her heel and push her. What more do you want, a fucking parade? Her name carved into the front of the White House?





Mordecay said:


> Whoever thinks that Becky hasn't been the most pushed star on SD since Summerslam hasn't been paying attention to the show. I won't blame her entirely for the ratings and say that it is only her fault, those ratings are a combinations of factors, but pretending that she doesn't have ANY responsability when the show has been built around her is delusional.


Tyrion and Modercai are acting as if Becky was intended to have been to most pushed star on SD. She wasn't. And as a matter of fact, she isn't.

Just because Becky gets the reaction of THE top star doesn't mean she's pushed as such. Everything that happened with her is organic and inspite of everything. Randy Orton probably closed out as much as shows as Becky. You are all delusional and you can't see it because you hate Becky, but the thing is, Becky carries herself like a star, Becky gets the reaction of the star, and she is the star of the show, but there's a lot more that can be done to PUSH her as the star. 

She has barely gotten to talk since coming back. She got to beat up Charlotte? oh big whoop Randy gets to beat up people every week. The only difference is that Becky is fresh and gets star like reactions which Orton doesn't. Now, if you stop your blind hatred and realize this you'll see she's the one saving this show. But no, please go on and blame Becky who's had 1 successful title defense in 3months. There is no reasoning with delusional haters anyway.

Let's go back to Jinder and Carmella as champion, that'll be better? they will get the numbers they were getting before right? because it absolutely has nothing to do with the overall product and how's been on a steep decline for 5 years now.


----------



## WindPhoenix

Smackdown ratings have gone down for many reasons really. 

1. The bad press from Crown Jewel.

2. Raw being so bad that it bleeds over to Smackdown. The simple reasoning of why watch another 2 hours of WWE wrestling when it could be just as bad as this.

3. The lack of consistent storytelling with their characters. With some, it's hard to tell if they are a heel or a face.

4. Lack of variety on the show and in the characters. Smackdown 2016 had something for everybody and it had the shows fun for everyone.

5. Stop over complicating the stories. Simple, but engaging storytelling is the best storytelling since any man, woman or child can get it. That creates buzz and brings new fans to the show and watching at home.


----------



## Mordecay

The Definition of Technician said:


> Tyrion and Modercai are acting as if Becky was intended to have been to most pushed star on SD. She wasn't. And as a matter of fact, she isn't.


Sure, they give her a lot of time to talk (more than AJ or Bryan since Summerslam), she basically dominated all the feud with Charlotte, has lost 1 tv singles match all year and she probably main evented more than AJ or Bryan in the past 3-4 months, hell, they even changed her titantron to be called "The Man" and apparently they are filming a network special about her, but sure, she isn't the most pushed star on the brand :eyeroll



> Just because Becky gets the reaction of THE top star doesn't mean she's pushed as such. Everything that happened with her is organic and inspite of everything. Randy Orton probably closed out as much as shows as Becky. You are all delusional and you can't see it because you hate Becky, but the thing is, Becky carries herself like a star, Becky gets the reaction of the star, and she is the star of the show, but there's a lot more that can be done to PUSH her as the star.


Inspite of everything? She is the women with the most singles wins in both brands this year. She has been pinned once since April. What else do you want? Give her both women titles and WWE title while we are it? Give her an Asuka like streak? Yeez



> She has barely gotten to talk since coming back. She got to beat up Charlotte? oh big whoop Randy gets to beat up people every week. The only difference is that Becky is fresh and gets star like reactions which Orton doesn't. Now, if you stop your blind hatred and realize this you'll see *she's the one saving this show.*


How can you honestly say she is the one "saving the show" when the show is doing record low ratings?



> But no, please go on and blame Becky who's had 1 successful title defense in 3months. *There is no reasoning with delusional haters anyway*.


Yet you took the time to reply, contradicting yourself in the process :shrug. Got to love delusional fans


----------



## The_Workout_Buddy

Hahahaha blaming Crown Jewel for the terrrible SDL ratings... what's next 9/11?

The truth is that SDL always gets bad bumbers.

Ambrose as champion? ... bad numbers
AJ as champion?... bad numbers
Alexa as champion?... bad numbers
Charlotte as champion?... bad numbers
Mahal as champion?... bad numbers
Orton as champion? ... bad numbers
Carmella as champion? ... bad numbers
Becky as champion? ... bad numbers
Bryan as champion? ... bad numbers

It's not a trend it's a reality since 2011.

Even is you like so much a talent there's not a reason to watch the show, is 2018 everybody wacth on YouTube the segment they cared about.

This is like people complaining about "terrible current music" killing the industry and MTV when the reality is that 90% of the people gets its fix of the music they like on Spotify and Youtube.


----------



## ClintDagger

There is no such thing as a brand split. There’s one brand, WWE, and there’s 2 shows: an “A” show and a “B” show. You could have flipped the rosters 6 months ago and the ratings for each show would be exactly the same. Nobody is a draw. People are still watching only out of habit, and as time passes people are slowly finding new entertainment and leaving WWE. For every new fan they create, they also lose a relatively new one. And the long-term fans are slowly being shed along the way.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

The_Workout_Buddy said:


> Hahahaha blaming Crown Jewel for the terrrible SDL ratings... what's next 9/11?
> 
> The truth is that SDL always gets bad bumbers.
> 
> Ambrose as champion? ... bad numbers
> AJ as champion?... bad numbers
> Alexa as champion?... bad numbers
> Charlotte as champion?... bad numbers
> Mahal as champion?... bad numbers
> Orton as champion? ... bad numbers
> Carmella as champion? ... bad numbers
> Becky as champion? ... bad numbers
> Bryan as champion? ... bad numbers
> 
> It's not a trend it's a reality since 2011.
> 
> Even is you like so much a talent there's not a reason to watch the show, is 2018 everybody wacth on YouTube the segment they cared about.
> 
> This is like people complaining about "terrible current music" killing the industry and MTV when the reality is that 90% of the people gets its fix of the music they like on Spotify and Youtube.


Didn't ratings go up when Wyatt was champion? I vaguely remember something along those lines. Wyatt = Money.


----------



## Mordecay

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Didn't ratings go up when Wyatt was champion? I vaguely remember something along those lines. Wyatt = Money.


It was the road to WM days, so that don't necesarialy means Wyatt was a draw, but ratings usually go up during that period


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Mordecay said:


> It was the road to WM days, so that don't necesarialy means Wyatt was a draw, but ratings usually go up during that period


Every time I see your posts I stare at your sig for about 20 seconds before I even read it lol.

Ahh, yeah I forgot it was the lead up to Mania. Makes sense.


----------



## DammitChrist

> How can you honestly say she is the one "saving the show" when the show is doing record low ratings?
> 
> 
> 
> Yet you took the time to reply, contradicting yourself in the process :shrug. *Got to love delusional fans*


There is nothing more delusional than some folks STILL trying to blame the ratings on certain popular talents (or attempting to hold them partially responsible) when the ratings will still be shit no matter who’s on top.

Viewership has been declining for several years, and the ratings decreasing more rapidly in recent years correlates to the WWE giving the fans a poor product where people are tuning out to the point where it’s becoming even more frequent.

If the most over talents (who are being pushed now) in the company can’t prevent the ratings from falling, then I’m pretty sure that there’s nobody else on the current roster who can save the viewership. At this point, it’s going to take MONTHS of good writing and CONSISTENT weeks of entertaining shows by the WWE (while also pushing talents that the fans like) to get them to bring back more viewers. 

I don’t know how many weeks of record-low ratings will it take for more folks to realize that nobody is a draw, and that the numbers will still be shit no matter who’s on top. As long as the shows suck (mostly on Raw’s case), then you’ll keep seeing these bad numbers.


----------



## .christopher.

They fell again? Good. Keep dropping.

Shame Bryan has to be associated with this shit but needs must.


----------



## llj

Nobody has shown to be a draw other than Cena the past 3 years. You have to pull a bunch of demographics outside of the usual one to be considered a draw. A lot of people are over...but only as part of the WWE bubble. Being over with the WWE universe these days means you are merely retaining a certain segment of the existing audience. But you aren't "drawing" anything from outside of the existing regular audience.

I don't get the slagging on Becky and Bryan. Anyone else would be doing the same numbers. And if Asuka actually wins at TLC during this current downturn, I'm sure there are gonna be people poking fun at Tyrion in here as Smackdown marches to likely historical worst numbers in the next 2 weeks--because it is looking like that might happen, especially with the reported taped episodes upcoming. And it wouldn't have anything to do with the champions, but because some people have boxed themselves into a corner, they may have to eat some crow when their guy/girl gets his/her turn at the top.


----------



## Mordecay

Let's face it, this is how it works around here:

If I dislike the person getting pushed and the ratings are bad: "He/she shoukdn't be pushed, he/she is not a draw, you should push my favourite"

If I like the person getting pushed and the ratings suck: "No one is a draw, what did you expect, he/she can't save the product"

My favourite is someone who will NEVER be pushed, so I don't have to worry about her being blamed for the ratings, but, if for some miracle she was and the ratings were still shit believe that I wouldn't say that she is "saving the show", You can claim that is not his/her fault and that's debatable, but saying that he/she is saving a show that is doing worse ratings each passing week, that's delusional


----------



## Chrome

According to Meltzer, Fox wants SDL to average 3.3 million viewers when they get there....



> Quote: "I know, I was hearing 3.3 million is what they wanted."
> 
> He mentions during the mailbag segment that he expects a 25% bump cause Fox is in more homes.
> 
> So WWE's got 10 months to figure out how to get at least around 650,000 viewers back, which is more than 30% of their current audience.
> 
> He also speculates that when the show moves, Fox might second-guess the deal and they probably will if the only get 2.0 - 2.5 million viewers one month or three months in.


Good luck with that lol.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Mordecay said:


> Let's face it, this is how it works around here:
> 
> If I dislike the person getting pushed and the ratings are bad: "He/she shoukdn't be pushed, he/she is not a draw, you should push my favourite"
> 
> If I like the person getting pushed and the ratings suck: "No one is a draw, what did you expect, he/she can't save the product"
> 
> My favourite is someone who will NEVER be pushed, so I don't have to worry about her being blamed for the ratings, but, if for some miracle she was and the ratings were still shit believe that I wouldn't say that she is "saving the show", You can claim that is not his/her fault and that's debatable, but saying that he/she is saving a show that is doing worse ratings each passing week, that's delusional


If she sticks around, she'll be pushed eventually. She's clearly the "star" in the Iconics. WWE's pushes for women come and go all the time, Peyton will get a run with the belt one day. Might not be for a while, and I don't think she'll ever be a comfortable top star like Ronda or Charlotte, but the revolving push door will open for her one day, most likely as a singles. I can't see them ever pushing Billie Kay though.


----------



## Ace

Mordecay said:


> Let's face it, this is how it works around here:
> 
> *If I dislike the person getting pushed and the ratings are bad: "He/she shoukdn't be pushed, he/she is not a draw, you should push my favourite"
> 
> If I like the person getting pushed and the ratings suck: "No one is a draw, what did you expect, he/she can't save the product"*
> 
> My favourite is someone who will NEVER be pushed, so I don't have to worry about her being blamed for the ratings, but, if for some miracle she was and the ratings were still shit believe that I wouldn't say that she is "saving the show", You can claim that is not his/her fault and that's debatable, but saying that he/she is saving a show that is doing worse ratings each passing week, that's delusional


 I've maintained from day one no one is a draw and it doesn't matter who is champion, the numbers will be the same. The only time I second guessed that was when Jinder was champion, I wondered whether a jobber wining the title would actually have a negative impact on the ratings and perception of the show.

Otherwise it's been pretty obvious for a long time now that the SD rating follows Raw's -10-20%.



DammitChrist said:


> There is nothing more delusional than some folks STILL trying to blame the ratings on certain popular talents (or attempting to hold them partially responsible) when the ratings will still be shit no matter who’s on top.
> 
> Viewership has been declining for several years, and the ratings decreasing more rapidly in recent years correlates to the WWE giving the fans a poor product where people are tuning out to the point where it’s becoming even more frequent.
> 
> If the most over talents (who are being pushed now) in the company can’t prevent the ratings from falling, then I’m pretty sure that there’s nobody else on the current roster who can save the viewership. At this point, it’s going to take MONTHS of good writing and CONSISTENT weeks of entertaining shows by the WWE (while also pushing talents that the fans like) to get them to bring back more viewers.
> 
> I don’t know how many weeks of record-low ratings will it take for more folks to realize that nobody is a draw, and that the numbers will still be shit no matter who’s on top. As long as the shows suck (mostly on Raw’s case), then you’ll keep seeing these bad numbers.


 SD's ratings actually grew in 2016 and 2017 I think, the fall happened in 2018 and that's most likely due to WWE dropping the facade of both shows being on an equal standing.


----------



## Bratista

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

If Fox do come down on them like a ton of bricks and force changes for the better to Smackdown, I'm for it.


----------



## llj

SD ratings were decent in 2016, and even beat RAW one week, but if you look at them closely, they usually coincided with Cena appearances. The less Cena appeared, the more their ratings declined.

As I said before, the only guy who has shown he can pop a rating alone is Cena. And maybe not even anymore with the WWE slowly trying to phase dependency on him out and having him get squashed a bunch of times the past year.


----------



## Ace

llj said:


> SD ratings were decent in 2016, and even beat RAW one week, but if you look at them closely, they usually coincided with Cena appearances. The less Cena appeared, the more their ratings declined.
> 
> As I said before, the only guy who has shown he can pop a rating alone is Cena. And maybe not even anymore with the WWE slowly trying to phase dependency on him out and having him get squashed a bunch of times the past year.


 They did their highest ratings without him IIRC.


----------



## llj

Ace said:


> They did their highest ratings without him IIRC.


"Highest ratings overall" during their peak months? Or "higher than RAW highest ratings?"

The one time they beat RAW in 2016 was because Cena was advertised to appear for an entire week.

To me, beating RAW is the standard. Because it is the same audience and the audience always prioritizes RAW. Having people prioritize Smackdown over RAW at any time of the year is the real signal of something special or someone special happening.

Smackdown beat RAW once this year because it was Smackdown 1000...barely.


----------



## Leon Knuckles

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

*I laugh at the power that a TV show has on you. :bryanlol*


----------



## Ace

llj said:


> "Highest ratings overall" during their peak months? Or "higher than RAW highest ratings?"
> 
> The one time they beat RAW in 2016 was because Cena was advertised to appear for an entire week.
> 
> To me, beating RAW is the standard. Because it is the same audience and the audience always prioritizes RAW. Having people prioritize Smackdown over RAW at any time of the year is the real signal of something special or someone special happening.
> 
> Smackdown beat RAW once this year because it was Smackdown 1000...barely.


 Raw was on Christmas and they gave away multiple world title matches, billed the show as a mini PPV under the name of wildcard finals which they promoted heavily.

Cena is a draw, but his impact is overstated. He doesn't bring in hundreds of thousands, he's like tens of thousands at best these days. You can look through the ratings and see that for yourself, his drawing ability has declined greatly. To his credit he still is capable of drawing, unlike most who do nothing for the ratings.

There are shows with him one it one week and not on the next month which did identical ratings.

They could promote Cena's return to SD for next week and I doubt it would crack 2.1m.


----------



## Makish16

To the people who need to shit on Bryan, Becky and AJ

Smackdown attendance 6000 /Raw attendance 4000

And the reason AJ wasn't at smackdown because the Raw live event needed his star power

Most of the wrestlers fans care about are on smackdown 

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk


----------



## Unorthodox

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

Bring back the people power era, That was better than this shite they serve up every week.


----------



## Eric Fleischer

SayWhatAgain! said:


> He's obviously talking about becky.
> 
> His point being "if she's so hot why isn't she drawing"
> 
> I can see his point but the issue at the moment is far bigger than Becky Lynch.



Yeah I got that but seeing as the post he was quoting never mentioned her I just wanted to point out he was the one bringing her up all the time. Again.





Mordecay said:


> Sure, they give her a lot of time to talk (more than AJ or Bryan since Summerslam), she basically dominated all the feud with Charlotte, has lost 1 tv singles match all year and she probably main evented more than AJ or Bryan in the past 3-4 months, hell, they even changed her titantron to be called "The Man" and apparently they are filming a network special about her, but sure, she isn't the most pushed star on the brand :eyeroll


It's not hard to find out if she main evented more than AJ or Daniel in the last three months. She's hasn't. As I said on the previous page right off the top pf my head she fought Lana in a match that was bottom of the second hour, and her last TV match Nikki Cross which was at the top of the second. I think her last real "main events" was the match to get the shot versus Carmella at Summerslam and a tag match with Charlotte against Carmella and someone else. Her "main events" are mostly a few promos to close the show which people were clamoring for and the ratings were steady.

Meanwhile, just three weeks ago Charlotte opened the show for like a whole half hour pretending to be Becky and then carrying a couple of broomsticks to a match.

And "oh nos" they changed her tron to match her new gimmick? What a shame! Selfish bitch! And a network special? Terrible! Why would you want to do that for someone that people are clearly interested in and has an interesting backstory? Like AJ got one....like Charlotte has gotten (probably several)....like Bryan? 

As I said on the previous page (and no one responded)....she's only recently been added as a "featured superstar" on the top of the WWE Shop website, she's not featued in any WWE Shop TV ad (Alexa), she's not shown in the USA Network bumpers for holiday week (It's Charlotte). She is not someone marketed outside the show as much as Charlotte and Alexa have been. But, her Rumble Axxess sold out in four minutes. Just saying.



> Inspite of everything? She is the women with the most singles wins in both brands this year. She has been pinned once since April. What else do you want? Give her both women titles and WWE title while we are it? Give her an Asuka like streak? Yeez


They put her on a win streak to build her back up after a year and a half almost of her just spinning her tires and even steven booking while still getting great reactions from the live crowds who have always liked her despite just being "Charlotte/Naomi's best friend". That was all smart booking for once. And I'm all for Asuka and Sonya Deville getting the same treatment at some point.



> How can you honestly say she is the one "saving the show" when the show is doing record low ratings?


No one is saving anything right now. Not Bryan, not AJ not Rollins not Strowman or Bliss. The product is in a real funk overall, but it has nothing to do with the quality being put out on this show. RAW sets the tone because WWE has conditioned it that way.



> Yet you took the time to reply, contradicting yourself in the process :shrug. Got to love delusional fans


Hey, you don't like her for whatever reason. That's great. You prefer models who occasionally wrestle. Anyway, what's delusional is a guy who covers his ears and says "NO NO NO NO, THE FANS REALLY DON'T LIKE HER!!! I SWEAR!". 

She's stepped up her game and made a name for herself. And yeah, we fans of Becky Lynch who've said "What are they doing with this girl, she clearly has something" since she came to the main roster are enjoying it. Sorry you don't like it. All this after I'm sure people such as yourself probably said "Ohhhh but what's her gimmick supposed to be??? Steampunk happy go lucky she's soooo boring zzz". Good wrestling fans who actually want the product to be successful recognize that even if they don't like someone, they changed it up and hit their stride and people responded. That's how you can avoid being delusional yourself. Just a tip.


----------



## thegockster

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

Another thread that shows people on here don't have no clue how television deals work, the same people who want deals like this to fail are the same people who continue to watch lol


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Becky isn't just responsible for the Smackdown decline but also the RAW decline. Why stop there? The stock decline? Must have been Becky. Attendance down company wide? Must have been The Man. Montreal Screwjob? :beckylol


----------



## Eric Fleischer

SHIVVY POO IV: THE FINAL CHAPTER said:


> Becky isn't just responsible for the Smackdown decline but also the RAW decline. Why stop there? The stock decline? Must have been Becky. Attendance down company wide? Must have been The Man. Montreal Screwjob? :beckylol


C'mon now, we all know she ruined RAW by parading around with a bloody face while people went nuts. So disrespectful! There's no way they can top that now! Now get Lashley out there to bend over!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

People are literally quibbling from what SD drew these past two weeks to what they drew in other parts of the year? A couple of the SD's from earlier this year drew 2.0-2.1 million. The difference between 1.9 million and change to 2.0 million and change is so miniscule it's not even funny. The main reason ratings mean anything for TV shows is for the ad revenue that the show can charge sponsors that air their commercials during these shows. WWE ain't making more money on a show that drew 2.1 million compared to 2.0 million. Or 2.0 million to 1.9 million. It's literally a drop in the bucket of a difference that doesn't net WWE any more money for ad revenue. Now, if we're talking something actually significant like 500K more, then we're talking a difference in ad revenue that WWE can charge. But 100K, and in some cases even less? They're getting the same amount.

It's also weird how Shawn and Nash from the mid 90's are brought up. In '96, Shawn went head to head at the same time on the same night against the NWO when it first formed. Hall and Nash leave the WWF and are portrayed on Nitro as if they are invading WCW from the WWF, before the "NWO" was named the NWO. And since the internet barely existed back then (especially in the form of wrestling sites), alot of people who watched did think the WWF as invading WCW at first. And then, Hulk FUCKING Hogan turns heel a month later and joins them. I'd like to see anyone from today go up against that head to head. They'd get murdered. 

PPV buys in 1996 increased from the previous year from 1.11 million to 2.28 million. House show attendance was significantly up from the previous year, as well, for every month of year in '96 compared to the previous year and beat WCW in house show attendance for every month of '96 up until the last month or two of the year, when he was no longer Champion. Everything was up from the previous year except for ratings thanks to the NWO. And that's all without the # 2 guy (Bret, who Shawn beat for the title) gone from the company for 7 months. 

Here's a bunch of stats and charts if you don't want to take my word for it:

https://sites.google.com/site/chrisharrington/mookieghana-prowrestlingstatistics/avghouseshow


----------



## Mordecay

Wow, Becky brigade out in full force... One really can't criticize her a little bit, it's actually hilarious :lmao. The funniest part is when her fans say that "they don't care" and then write this long ass text walls telling us why they are right and the rest is wrong. And btw, I've never said she is not over or that she isn't popular, because that's not true, hell, I posted a thread in the columns section 3 weeks ago saying that she is the most popular person (not woman, person) on the company. Anyways, I guess it is right to blame AJ, Seth, Braun, Ronda, Bryan for low ratings, but not Becky, because she can do no wrong, got it


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

The face of the WWE is looking better than ever right now


----------



## Ace

Mordecay said:


> Wow, Becky brigade out in full force... One really can't criticize her a little bit, it's actually hilarious <img src="https://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="" title="ROFLMAO" class="inlineimg" />. The funniest part is when her fans say that "they don't care" and then write this long ass text walls telling us why they are right and the rest is wrong. And btw, I've never said she is not over or that she isn't popular, because that's not true, hell, I posted a thread in the columns section 3 weeks ago saying that she is the most popular person (not woman, person) on the company. Anyways, I guess it is right to blame AJ, Seth, Braun, Ronda, Bryan for low ratings, but not Becky, because she can do no wrong, got it


 I'm loving the double standards, you were here when people were scapegoating AJ for the gradual declines when he was treated like shit and barely on the show. They're blaming Corbin for the ratings on Raw, but here WF's favorites aren't catching shit when weeks ago AJ was being blamed.

I'm going to be consistent and not blame anyone but the company. The show has been shit for ages and they deserve everything that comes their way. But don't for a second say someone is objectively hot or great when ratings are hitting rock bottom. This would never have happened if it were true. I agree they're doing good /decent quality wise but other than that they're certainly not must watch or bringing people in/keeping people (reflected in the ratings).



Showstopper said:


> People are literally quibbling from what SD drew these past two weeks to what they drew in other parts of the year? A couple of the SD's from earlier this year drew 2.0-2.1 million. The difference between 1.9 million and change to 2.0 million and change is so miniscule it's not even funny. The main reason ratings mean anything for TV shows is for the ad revenue that the show can charge sponsors that air their commercials during these shows. WWE ain't making more money on a show that drew 2.1 million compared to 2.0 million. Or 2.0 million to 1.9 million. It's literally a drop in the bucket of a difference that doesn't net WWE any more money for ad revenue. Now, if we're talking something actually significant like 500K more, then we're talking a difference in ad revenue that WWE can charge. But 100K, and in some cases even less? They're getting the same amount.
> 
> It's also weird how Shawn and Nash from the mid 90's are brought up. In '96, Shawn went head to head at the same time on the same night against the NWO when it first formed. Hall and Nash leave the WWF and are portrayed on Nitro as if they are invading WCW from the WWF, before the "NWO" was named the NWO. And since the internet barely existed back then (especially in the form of wrestling sites), alot of people who watched did think the WWF as invading WCW at first. And then, Hulk FUCKING Hogan turns heel a month later and joins them. I'd like to see anyone from today go up against that head to head. They'd get murdered.
> 
> PPV buys in 1996 increased from the previous year from 1.11 million to 2.28 million. House show attendance was significantly up from the previous year, as well, for every month of year in '96 compared to the previous year and beat WCW in house show attendance for every month of '96 up until the last month or two of the year, when he was no longer Champion. Everything was up from the previous year except for ratings thanks to the NWO. And that's all without the # 2 guy (Bret, who Shawn beat for the title) gone from the company for 7 months.
> 
> Here's a bunch of stats and charts if you don't want to take my word for it:
> 
> https://sites.google.com/site/chrisharrington/mookieghana-prowrestlingstatistics/avghouseshow


 No disrespect to either, I'm not aware of their situation back then but those dudes are memed to hell with low ratings being associated to them. On every wrestling space I see jokes on it. The rate this is going others are going to take that mantle.


----------



## Robbyfude

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

Apparently Meltzer said Fox wanted at least a 3.3 rating average for Smackdown, so it is possible we could see the deal end.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Ace said:


> No disrespect to either, I'm not aware of their situation back then but those dudes are memed to hell with low ratings being associated to them everywhere I see jokes on it on every wrestling space. The rate this is going others are going to take that mantle.


I know. Those are people who only take ratings into consideration and not anyother aspect a pro wrestling promotion can make money and are too lazy to look into the other stuff I mentioned or don't want to bring it up because it ruins their little narrative.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mordecay said:


> Wow, Becky brigade out in full force... One really can't criticize her a little bit, it's actually hilarious :lmao. The funniest part is when her fans say that "they don't care" and then write this long ass text walls telling us why they are right and the rest is wrong. And btw, I've never said she is not over or that she isn't popular, because that's not true, hell, I posted a thread in the columns section 3 weeks ago saying that she is the most popular person (not woman, person) on the company. *Anyways, I guess it is right to blame AJ, Seth, Braun, Ronda, Bryan for low ratings, but not Becky, because she can do no wrong, got it*


Since when was it ever right to blame those names too, and which of us is doing that anyway :kobe


----------



## Ace

DammitChrist said:


> Mordecay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, Becky brigade out in full force... One really can't criticize her a little bit, it's actually hilarious <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="" title="ROFLMAO" class="inlineimg" />. The funniest part is when her fans say that "they don't care" and then write this long ass text walls telling us why they are right and the rest is wrong. And btw, I've never said she is not over or that she isn't popular, because that's not true, hell, I posted a thread in the columns section 3 weeks ago saying that she is the most popular person (not woman, person) on the company. *Anyways, I guess it is right to blame AJ, Seth, Braun, Ronda, Bryan for low ratings, but not Becky, because she can do no wrong, got it*
> 
> 
> 
> Since when was it ever right to blame those names too, and which of us is doing that anyway <img src="http://i.imgur.com/lny9hsB.png" border="0" alt="" title="Kobe" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

 Really dude? There was plenty giving shit to AJ's title reign for the declines across the board, you even defended AJ for it.. 

There were reasonable fans who saw what was happening but still blame was being given to the champion for the ratings falling from year to year (Jinder was brought into it too..).

AJ, Roman and Ronda have copped heat for ratings, the others not so much. Tbf I've given them shit for it too because of their positioning as the two top stars (Roman and Ronda).


----------



## DammitChrist

Ace said:


> Really dude? There was plenty giving shit to AJ's title reign for the declines across the board, you even defended AJ for it..
> 
> There were reasonable fans who saw what was happening but still blame was being given to the champion for the ratings falling from year to year (Jinder was brought into it too..).
> 
> AJ and Ronda have copped heat for ratings, the others not so much.


Nah, man. I wasn't denying that AJ Styles getting unfairly blamed didn't happen. I was asking which fan of Becky Lynch was blaming him (along with those other names) *recently.*


----------



## WindPhoenix

Another thing is, At Survivor Series, they went out of their way to make Smackdown look bad. The following Smackdown was the perfect time to do something big and they did nothing. They made Smackdown look so minor league.


----------



## Brodus Clay

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

Actually Fox wants a better product and seems that WWE kinda trying, yes Smackdown it's still boring to watch full but there are better parts to check on youtube from this 2 hours show than RAW, more than WWE failing I hope Fox gets more control of Smackdown and we get lucky to see something good.


----------



## Monterossa

*Re: Is it bad that I want the ratings to tank so bad they lose the Fox deal*

SmackDown is even shittier than RAW right now. They made everybody look bad and weak beside AJ Styles who's way too overprotected. Becky doesn't really do anything, and her "The Man" thing is stupid as hell.


----------



## Ace

WWE ratings


----------



## Captain Crazy

The Definition of Technician said:


> Tyrion and Modercai are acting as if Becky was intended to have been to most pushed star on SD. She wasn't. And as a matter of fact, she isn't.
> 
> Just because Becky gets the reaction of THE top star doesn't mean she's pushed as such. Everything that happened with her is organic and inspite of everything. Randy Orton probably closed out as much as shows as Becky. You are all delusional and you can't see it because you hate Becky, but the thing is, Becky carries herself like a star, Becky gets the reaction of the star, and she is the star of the show, but there's a lot more that can be done to PUSH her as the star.
> 
> She has barely gotten to talk since coming back. She got to beat up Charlotte? oh big whoop Randy gets to beat up people every week. The only difference is that Becky is fresh and gets star like reactions which Orton doesn't. Now, if you stop your blind hatred and realize this you'll see she's the one saving this show. But no, please go on and blame Becky who's had 1 successful title defense in 3months. There is no reasoning with delusional haters anyway.
> 
> Let's go back to Jinder and Carmella as champion, that'll be better? they will get the numbers they were getting before right? because it absolutely has nothing to do with the overall product and how's been on a steep decline for 5 years now.


Becky has had 3 successful title defenses the past 3 months.


----------



## BringBackTV14

Picked a random episode from the OG brand split roster SDLive and I actually used one that had the champ in a notable non-title match opening the show and a women's match closing the show

Styles vs Miz
Nikki/Natalya mic/merch stand brawl segment
Ambrose vs Orton
King's Court mic segment w/Ziggler 
Alexa vs Becky Steel Cage Title Match (Main Event)

2.65m viewers

vs

Bryan vs Ali
Tag Team rap battle
Shane squashes jobbers
Orton mic segment
Nakamura & Joe vs Hardy & Rusev
Askua vs Charlotte (Main Event) 

1.97m viewers


680k viewer difference. 

Nearly 3/4 of a million viewers


----------



## WindPhoenix

Smackdown in 2016 had a wide variety of characters from different backgrounds who appealed to different audiences. The only downside was it's tag division. John Cena also helped with the rating. 

Smackdown in 2018 has been treated like the B show more than ever and it feels like they are trying to recover from past poor booking decisions from 2017. With some heels, they have them build too much heat without elevating another face.

The worst things that they have done is push the original Smackdown top stars to the side while pushing Raw guys who came over heavily and SD mid-carders like Natalya and the Bludgeon Bros.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Now that Becky isn't champ, I wonder who gets to take the ratings blame now.







:beckylol


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 12/18/18 Vs 12/11/18 ):
2.214M Vs 1.977M ( + 0.237M / + 11.99% )
0.740D Vs 0.680D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.214M Vs 2.547M ( - 0.333M / 86.93% )
0.740D Vs 0.860D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 12/18/18 Vs 12/19/17 ):
2.214M Vs 2.578M ( - 0.364M / - 14.12% )
0.740D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.578M Vs 2.786M ( - 0.208M / 92.53% )
0.750D Vs 0.903D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 5th by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

PPV and Raw bump, this might be the peak rating of SD these days i.e. the numbers we'll see around WM season 2.2-2.3m.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

As I have mentioned ad nauseam, the ratings between RAW and Smackdown are inextricably linked. 87% RAW retention. Same old, same old. Nothing new to see here. Some weeks there will be variance either above 90 or below 80% but for the most part it stays in it's comfort lane. The McMahon stuff will get old quickly and then what happens?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I didn't feel like this warranted a new thread, so I'll post it here. But did anyone see this? Apparently fans are complaining to Meltzer that WWE taped Raw and SD for Christmas next week and that the shows won't be live, so the wrestlers could have off on Christmas with their families this year finally:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1075468509562322944
What the hell is wrong these people? :lol These men and women are on a brutal schedule all year long with NO offseason, and fans are mad that the shows on Christmas Eve/Christmas Day won't be live? :mj4 They should be taped. No one watches TV on those days anyway. What the hell is wrong with people?


----------



## Chris90

It's just too easy


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

It is interesting that Smackdown is off 364,000 viewers year to year but almost the exact same demo.(.75 vs.74) Go figure.


----------



## llj

RAW goes up and Smackdown goes up with it automatically. I'm really happy with the champions on Smackdown right now but I am under no illusion they have anything to do with Smackdown's ratings, good and bad.


----------



## ClintDagger

Showstopper said:


> I didn't feel like this warranted a new thread, so I'll post it here. But did anyone see this? Apparently fans are complaining to Meltzer that WWE taped Raw and SD for Christmas next week and that the shows won't be live, so the wrestlers could have off on Christmas with their families this year finally:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1075468509562322944
> What the hell is wrong these people? :lol These men and women are on a brutal schedule all year long with NO offseason, and fans are mad that the shows on Christmas Eve/Christmas Day won't be live? :mj4 They should be taped. No one watches TV on those days anyway. What the hell is wrong with people?


I’m not sure why they have to tape anything at all. Find a documentary or best of to fill that time.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

I think they could just do a Best of Raw and a Best of SD this coming week instead of doing the double taped episodes. Instead they did that crap with New Day's Pancake Crap on a Weds. They could have done a Pre-Taped Slammy's or something like that for New Year's. No need for this heatless shit.

Anyone complaining that Raw/SD isn't live next week is hilarious. Many ppl including myself bitched that WWE did live Raw's Christmas and New Year's. Now you want it live :jetbad


----------



## fabi1982

CMPunkRock316 said:


> I think they could just do a Best of Raw and a Best of SD this coming week instead of doing the double taped episodes. Instead they did that crap with New Day's Pancake Crap on a Weds. They could have done a Pre-Taped Slammy's or something like that for New Year's. No need for this heatless shit.
> 
> Anyone complaining that Raw/SD isn't live next week is hilarious. Many ppl including myself bitched that WWE did live Raw's Christmas and New Year's. Now you want it live :jetbad


I think the issue is that they will lose their "weekly since 500bc bullshit", when they will not have a new episode (or at least a pre taped new episode) running?!


----------



## Ace

Christmas day and up against the first ever Lebron Lakers and GSW match.

Good luck :heston


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

If the ratings are going to fail, fail spectacularly. It makes the % increase from this low look more impressive. :vince5


----------



## Ace

Time for a good ol' paddlin addlin


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The holiday will delay the ratings for at least a day. I am predicting 10M this week. :bryanlol


----------



## Ace

I'm guessing under 1.8m :lol

Gut feeling is 1.7m.

Raw completely bombed which gives a SD to win this week, although it was up against Lebron's Lakers vs GSW match.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

I hope they beat Raw but have my doubts. SD wasn't terrible while Raw as bad as it has been. It was even worse than the rolling average of bad shows they have put out.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 12/25/18 Vs 12/18/18 ):
1.904M Vs 2.214M ( - 0.310M / - 14.00% )
0.610D Vs 0.740D

SDL Vs RAW:
1.904M Vs 1.775M ( + 0.129M / + 7.27% )
0.610D Vs 0.550D*

*Note: SDL is 5th by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 12/25/18 Vs 12/26/17 ):
1.904M Vs 2.656M ( - 0.752M / - 28.31% )
0.610D Vs 0.820D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.656M Vs 2.704M ( - 0.048M / 98.22% )
0.820D Vs 0.837D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*










*-Lowest SDL viewership and demo since The Draft.
-Record low SD (Thanksgiving 15') was lower by 0.252M and 13.24%.
-3rd sub 2M episode in 4 weeks.

-Record low cumulative RAW/SDL viewership of 3.679M ( 1.775M + 1.904M).
-0.492M and 11.8% lower than the record low of 4.171M ( 2.194M + 1.977M) a fortnight ago.
-25.19% viewership drop and 33.70% demo drop relative to SDL 1000.*


----------



## Crasp

SDL beat Raw, lol.


----------



## llj

AJ fans: "AJ punching Vince = ratings!"

Becky/Char/Asuka fans: "They would have gotten over 2 mil if MY GIRL APPEARED"


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Rusev = Draw.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

SD edges Raw. Looks like Christmas Eve really is the worst night for TV. And maybe people prefer a Nakamura title defense over a Rousey one. Yikes.


----------



## A-C-P

SDL beat Raw :bjpenn


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Rusev winning US Title in main event outdraws Raw.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Didn't expect this. The most telling number for this holiday massacre is the combined audience for Smackdown and RAW : 3.679M. I know these numbers are not the norm...yet but that combined total is brutal.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

RUSEV PUTRIA, RUSEV MACHKA

:rusevyes


----------



## Mordecay

A taped show, where people knew beforehand that there wouldn't be any womens segment (including the so called "most over person in the company") beat RAW in the ratings and drew better than expected, very interesting :bjpenn


----------



## Makish16

llj said:


> AJ fans: "AJ punching Vince = ratings!"
> 
> Becky/Char/Asuka fans: "They would have gotten over 2 mil if MY GIRL APPEARED"


Bryan is the champ so Bryan beat raw =) 

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ace

That's another record low? :lmao

Beating Raw means little as Christmas eve is a worse night for television than Christmas day.

First time ever both shows have done sub 2m.



llj said:


> AJ fans: "AJ punching Vince = ratings!"
> 
> Becky/Char/Asuka fans: "They would have gotten over 2 mil if MY GIRL APPEARED"


 It's another record low.. nothing to be boast about.

-Lowest SDL viewership and demo since The Draft.
-Record low SD (Thanksgiving 15') was lower by 0.252M and 13.24%.
-3rd sub 2M episode in 4 weeks.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Lowest rated Raw of all time and lowest rated SD of all time on the same week just one day apart from eachother.

Instead of Vince approving terrible scripts, it's like a higher power approved Vince's nightmare scenario in a 24 hour time period.

:lol

:vince5 :buried

Couldn't happen to a better guy.


----------



## Ace

Showstopper said:


> Lowest rated Raw of all time and lowest rated SD of all time on the same week just one day apart from eachother.
> 
> Instead of Vince approving terrible scripts, it's like a higher power approved Vince's nightmare scenario in a 24 hour time period.
> 
> :lol
> 
> :vince5 :buried
> 
> Couldn't happen to a better guy.


 I'm enjoying these threads more than the shows :lmao

Both ratings need to tank further before the McMahons get the message.

Apparently NYE is the worst night of the year for TV, so Raw could do another record all time low.

If it does sub 1.5m :sodone :sodone :sodone :sodone

Holiday or not, that would break Vince.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

On a serious note about the numbers, Smackdown beating Raw is still a victory in itself. Last time Raw fell on Christmas Eve (2012), it still beat Smackdown by a comfortable margin (I believe it still got around 3 million viewers, and from what I found SD did about 2.6 million). Granted there are other differences from back then. Smackdown was being taped every week at the time (this is negated though if Raw was taped that week as well, which I imagine it was), it was on Friday nights (which I don't know if your normal Friday night is a worse night than Christmas for TV), and the brand split was more or less phased out by that point. 

That all said, the 1.9 mil viewership number is bad no matter how you slice it. It's bad things have gotten that low and what's sadder is a number like that will probably look decent in the fall of next year. The combined number between both shows is also terrible. I just think though SD beating Raw shouldn't be understated, even if it did have the better night for TV. SD has failed to beat Raw many times in the past when there was a holiday on Mondays and nothing on Tuesday (like this week last year), so it is sort of telling that more people chose to tune into Smackdown this week. 

Again though, not defending the number the show got itself, but it's no small feat that SD beat Raw for the 3rd (?) time since the brand split started. And really for normal shows, I think it's the second time it's happened. Plus I don't think anyone really thought SD would beat Raw, although I personally thought it would retain like 90%+ Raw's audience than the normal and end up in the 1.6-1.7 million range.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Just to clarify, this was *NOT* the lowest rated episode of Smackdown ever. That dishonor goes to the reigning and still defending Smackdown Thanksgiving 2015 which had 1.652M viewers. Still the current rating is nothing to crow about. It's yearly drop of 0.752M / - 28.31% rivals RAW'S colossal failure of - 34.36% / - 0.929M This was only the third episode of Smackdown to beat RAW since it went live July 2016.


----------



## Ace

SHIVVY POO IV: THE FINAL CHAPTER said:


> Just to clarify, this was *NOT* the lowest rated episode of Smackdown ever. That dishonor goes to the reigning and still defending Smackdown Thanksgiving 2015 which had 1.652M viewers. Still the current rating is nothing to crow about. It's yearly drop of 0.752M / - 28.31% rivals RAW'S colossal failure of - 34.36% / - 0.929M This was only the third episode of Smackdown to beat RAW since it went live July 2016.


 It's the lowest number since the split.

I think it maybe the second lowest overall, can't say it with certainty as I'm not sure what the numbers for SD were like before.


----------



## AlternateDemise

Ace said:


> That's another record low? :lmao
> 
> Beating Raw means little as Christmas eve is a worse night for television than Christmas day.
> 
> First time ever both shows have done sub 2m.
> 
> It's another record low.. nothing to be boast about.
> 
> -Lowest SDL viewership and demo since The Draft.
> -Record low SD (Thanksgiving 15') was lower by 0.252M and 13.24%.
> -3rd sub 2M episode in 4 weeks.


Considering it went up directly against Golden State vs The Lakers (something you mentioned twice now in this thread), I would say 1.9 and beating Raw is a surprise all things considered.

No, not something good. But a surprise.


----------



## Adam Cool

BASED BRYAN
BASED AJ

SETH ROLLINS ON SUICIDE WATCH


----------



## .christopher.

Adam Cool said:


> BASED BRYAN
> BASED AJ
> 
> SETH ROLLINS ON SUICIDE WATCH


'Member when idiots said it'd rise for Asuka? I 'member it all right.

No one is a draw. This product is turtle droppings.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

The only way they are going to improve ratings is to devote one hour to Bryan and one hour to Becky. Everyone else can stay home.


----------



## Ace

SayWhatAgain! said:


> The only way they are going to improve ratings is to devote one hour to Bryan and one hour to Becky. Everyone else can stay home.


 Becky and Bryan have been the top two stars of SD for while and they've done sub 2m for 3 out of the last 4 weeks for the first time since the split.

Not blaming a particular star for it, but to say two people could improve the ratings is incredibly stupid because no one in this company is a wrestling draw. That includes Ronda Rousey who was a transcendent UFC fighter.

Only way to improve ratings is to make Raw better - more people watching Raw will lead to more people watching SD, that's outside bringing stars in e.g. The Rock or Batista, but that's short term and they'll eventually kill their drawing power like they did with Goldberg after a while.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Here's to SD beating Raw the second week in a row. :JR


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 1/1/19 Vs 12/25/18 ):
2.091M Vs 1.904M ( + 0.187M / + 9.82% )
0.680D Vs 0.610D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.091M Vs 1.968M ( + 0.123M / + 6.25% )
0.680D Vs 0.577D*

*Note: SDL is 10th by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 1/1/19 Vs 12/26/17 ):
2.091M Vs 2.720M ( - 0.629M / - 23.13% )
0.680D Vs 0.820D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.720M Vs 2.865M ( - 0.145M / 94.94% )
0.820D Vs 0.970D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*-First time ever SDL beats RAW 2 weeks in a row in viewerships, demos and ratings.
-Largest viewership, demo and rating disparity between any SDL and RAW.
-2nd lowest ever cumulative RAW/SDL viewership of 4.059M ( 1.968M + 2.091M).*


----------



## A-C-P

SD beating Raw again :bjpenn


----------



## Erik.

Raw :lmao


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Raw need to send for The Man ASAP. Bryan can carry SD on his own.


----------



## Mordecay

Cena is still the Man :shrug


----------



## llj

JAWN SEENA


----------



## Ace

Wow, that's lower than I thought it would be.

I expected ratings to be back to normal.. is this the new normal or is NYD still a bad day for TV?

It's a good number if it's still holiday affected, if it's not than man it's going to be a rough stretch for WM season (really poor ratings compared to previous years).


----------



## Makish16

Aj styles 371 days as champ - 0 times he beat Raw

Daniel Bryan 50 days as champ - 2 times he beat Raw

AJ just isn't on Bryan's level =) 

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I am a bit surprised. Twice in a row, I expect things to return to normal next week. Scratch that. RAW is facing the College Football Championship game which could hurt its ratings. Ratings are poor but this marks only the 4th time Smackdown has beaten RAW in the ratings since the brand split. I want to see what the new normal Road to Mania ratings are.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Rusev US Title Run - 2-0 against Raw. 

:rusevcrush:rusevcrush:rusevcrush:rusevcrush:rusevcrush
:rusevyes:rusevyes:rusevyes:rusevyes:rusevyes


----------



## Crasp

No surprise that it beat the NYE Raw, but it's still cool to see it beat Raw two weeks on the trot. And it's not all that bad considering it was a taped show with all of the spoilers out there (though the Cena spoilers maybe got _more_ eyes on it than it would have otherwise).


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

THE MAN said:


> I am a bit surprised. Twice in a row, I expect things to return to normal next week. Scratch that. RAW is facing the College Football Championship game which could hurt its ratings. Ratings are poor but this marks only the 4th time Smackdown has beaten RAW in the ratings since the brand split. I want to see what the new normal Road to Mania ratings are.


Actually I doubt it hurts ratings that bad because people are tired of seeing Clemson and Alabama


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Smackdown is going to be against a newly announced Trump Presidential Address. Considering that WWE's base is older men, this might harm Smackdown a bit. Given the promotion of RAW, SDL might be hard pressed to hit the 80% mark this week.

EDIT: At this point, the networks haven't decided whether or not to show it.


----------



## tducey

Hoping WWE holds its own vs. the Trump address. Don't want to get political here but Trump's more of a disaster as president than RAW has been as of late.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I expect Smackdown to go back to below RAW, but man this show absolutely wrecked RAW in sheer quality.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 1/8/19 Vs 12/1/19 ):
2.032M Vs 2.091M ( - 0.059M / - 2.82% )
0.720D Vs 0.680D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.032M Vs 2.324M ( - 0.292M / 87.44% )
0.720D Vs 0.797D*

*Note: SDL is 4th by demo & 16th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 1/8/19 Vs 1/9/18 ):
2.032M Vs 2.603M ( - 0.571M / - 21.94% )
0.720D Vs 0.760D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.603M Vs 2.760M ( - 0.157M / 94.31% )
0.760D Vs 0.900D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 8th by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

Not great but could have been worse.

How did Trump's address do?

Damn, that's down 570k from last year.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Donnie said:


> Not great but could have been worse.
> 
> How did Trump's address do?


Not sure yet. But Trump only spoke for 10 mins.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

2.032M and a .72 demo. Lower than last week for viewers slightly but a slightly higher demo. Given the numbers of Trump's address, this wasn't that bad.


----------



## Ace

Showstopper said:


> Not sure yet. But Trump only spoke for 10 mins.


 lmfao, I thought I tuned in late :lmao

In that case that's fucking awful :lmao

Do people usually stick around in big numbers to hear the analysts talk?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Showstopper said:


> Not sure yet. But Trump only spoke for 10 mins.


The Democats response was slightly higher including the analysis across the 4 major networks. Plus there are the cable news channels to factor in. Combined audience was over 35-40M. Substantially larger than the college game but the first hour of Smackdown was only against the address lead in. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...-1202532009/&usg=AOvVaw10061-es7QIsfXoDBblCiw


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

EL REGRESO DEL SHIV MALO said:


> The Democats response was slightly higher including the analysis across the 4 major networks. Plus there are the cable news channels to factor in. Combined audience was over 35-40M. Substantially larger than the college game but the first hour of Smackdown was only against the address lead in. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...-1202532009/&usg=AOvVaw10061-es7QIsfXoDBblCiw


True, there was the democratic response and than all of the news analysts analyzing everything that was said by both sides. I just meant just Trump's talking time, but yeah there was other stuff after he talked, too. I watched what Trump said and then turned it off right after. I wonder how many others did that. But I'm not a big news guy, so.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Showstopper said:


> True, there was the democratic response and than all of the news analysts analyzing everything that was said by both sides. I just meant just Trump's talking time, but yeah there was other stuff after he talked, too. I watched what Trump said and then turned it off right after. I wonder how many others did that. But I'm not a big news guy, so.


No idea how many tuned out but that rating includes both addresses and the analysis which was 30 minutes? Between this and the CFB game, WWE picked a bad time to come back. :lol


----------



## Ace

If SD is doing sub 2.2m on the road to the rumble it should be considered a failure. 2.2-2.3m is okay to solid accounting for the decline. If they're doing those numbers to the lead up to WM... yikes..



Showstopper said:


> True, there was the democratic response and than all of the news analysts analyzing everything that was said by both sides. I just meant just Trump's talking time, but yeah there was other stuff after he talked, too. I watched what Trump said and then turned it off right after. I wonder how many others did that. But I'm not a big news guy, so.


 The news channels I was watching it on said it was a 8 min address on border security, I thought it was on that particular portion of the speech and that he had spoken for 30-40 mins before hand on other polices...


----------



## llj

This is not great. Lower than a taped episode.


----------



## Ace

llj said:


> This is not great. Lower than a taped episode.


 It was up against a Trump address (8 mins) + the democrat's response, +/- 20 mins.


----------



## llj

Donnie said:


> If SD is doing sub 2.2m on the road to the rumble it should be considered a failure. 2.2-2.3m is okay to solid accounting for the decline. If they're doing those numbers to the lead up to WM... yikes..



I automatically knew the number wouldn't be great when I saw RAW do 2.3m yesterday. As always, SD follows closely behind RAW.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Next week we can start getting a clear picture of what the new normal is for both shows which will most assuredly be lower than last year.


----------



## Ace

I wonder when this fall will stop, it feels like they're achieving a record low every week.

This last 2-3 months must have taken over the top 10 by now.

To think Raw losing Roman/their top star led to this big fall.


----------



## llj

Donnie said:


> I wonder when this fall will stop, it feels like they're achieving a record low every week.
> 
> This last 2-3 months must have taken over the top 10 by now.
> 
> To think Raw losing Roman/their top star led to this big fall.


No one else has been presented as special aside from Roman, so there was no backup plan for this.

Though to be fair, RAW's ratings have been sliding gradually since Wrestlemania. From January-April last year, they were actually UP over 2017 at the same time of the year. From May onwards, the numbers started doing worse than 2017.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Jesus, these Raw and Smackdown numbers are absolutely atrocious.


----------



## .christopher.

This is all Daniel Bryan's doing.

Instead of being couch potatoes watching wrestling, people are now obviously taking Bryan's advice and becoming more active in order to create a better world.

This man is something else. Saving the world a SmackDown episode at a time. Hes like Light Yagami except his "Death Note" is the WWE championship.


----------



## Jonhern

llj said:


> No one else has been presented as special aside from Roman, so there was no backup plan for this.


One exception, lesner, and his shtick is getting old, everybody knows his appearances will be the same as the others, and he sure as hell wont be wrestling, so why even bother tuning in just because he is on.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

llj said:


> This is not great. Lower than a taped episode.


Cena was advertised. Like it or not, he is a draw.


----------



## Sincere

Am I missing something? It seems SD had ~90% of Raw's viewership this week, which is generally on the high end. What's the average, 80-85%?

Raw needs to do better if SD is to do better.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Sincere said:


> Am I missing something? It seems SD had ~90% of Raw's viewership this week, which is generally on the high end. What's the average, 80-85%?
> 
> Raw needs to do better if SD is to do better.


A higher RAW does tend to make for a higher Smackdown. In 2017 Smackdown retained 84 something % and it was 83 something % for 2018. The weekly percentage bounces around depending on the week's competition but it hangs around the low 80's. There will also be 90+ and high 70's some weeks. This week it was 87.4% A year ago it as 94%. The two shows combined for more than a million lost viewers year to year. If that happens a year from now. :sodone


----------



## Ace

> Smackdown on 1/8 actually fell from New Year’s Day against the bowls do 2,032,000 viewers. The drop was only 2.8 percent, which normally I wouldn’t think as meaning much, but this was the week numbers should have bounced back for both shows, and unlike Raw, Smackdown had no excuse.
> 
> But the one thing is that they pushed this show around Becky Lynch vs. Charlotte Flair vs. Carmella with a Rumble title shot at stake and put them on last. Given the attendance and the rating, Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers.
> 
> News shows were way up, but I’m not sure how much that affects the wrestling audience. Smackdown fell to 14th place on cable, but except for one show on The History Channel, Smackdown was only beaten by news programming on CNN, Fox News and MSNBC.
> 
> The show did a 0.41 in 12-17 (same as Christmas day), 0.56 in 18-34 (up 19.1 percent), 0.88 in 35-49 (down 1.1 percent) and 0.78 in 50+ (down 13.3 percent–this demo I could see being hurt by the news coverage)


This week's attendance was poor too.

Dave mentioned how Becky hasn't been doing anything to ratings or attendance since getting her major push.


----------



## Mordecay

*WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

From the latest Observer:



> Smackdown on 1/8 actually fell from New Year’s Day against the bowls do 2,032,000 viewers. The drop was only 2.8 percent, which normally I wouldn’t think as meaning much, but this was the week numbers should have bounced back for both shows, and unlike Raw, Smackdown had no excuse.
> 
> But the one thing is that they pushed this show around Becky Lynch vs. Charlotte Flair vs. Carmella with a Rumble title shot at stake and put them on last. Given the attendance and the rating, Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers.


----------



## TL Hopper

Who actually moves numbers apart from Cena?


----------



## McNugget

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

She's also been given fuck all for interesting angles since the Ronda stuff. She's not going to move numbers if she never does anything cool again.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

_*To be honest not one person on Smackdown moves numbers in this era. And another thing, the reason why the numbers are decreasing is because it's football season, the talents don't have any control on their bookings, storylines and stuff last week. Becky gets cheered heavily, I agree with them there. In order to get numbers up is a group effort and creative staffs job as well. *_


----------



## zrc

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Ok


----------



## UniversalGleam

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

I don't think any individual person "moves numbers" in todays wwe so its hardly a negative on her personally.

this "category" is the only category that exists in wwe so overall this comment is rather pointless.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Here's the thing about pushes and "moving numbers" - Becky hasn't really gotten the type of push that would make a difference.

From what I know, Austin wasn't a difference maker in the first months of his push either 

Let's see how much Becky starts moving numbers after Conor McGregor puts her over on TV for months while she feuds head to head with Ronda Rousey. Like how Austin got to work with Mike Tyson for months in the lead up to his Mania main event

Becky has generated enough buzz possible, hell Conor even called her out on Twitter. But the company still hasn't done much to capitalize on her momentum. She's gotten a nice enough push but looking at history, more could be done


----------



## FROSTY

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Yeah, it's women's wrestling. None of it moves numbers in the US at least. Of course hardly any of the men in WWE do either.


----------



## Cooper09

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Like CM Punk. As over as he was with the live crowds and smarks, during his 434 day title reign, he was a proven ratings killer. The truth be told is that the general audience just don't give a rats ass about the women.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Still wanting to know who is actually "moving numbers" on the shows. The drop in ratings this week might have something to do with the second hour facing a national address and response which drew 35-40M viewers. Plus RAW performed poorly which is a consistent indicator of how Smackdown will do.


----------



## Arktik

Roman Reigns didnt move ratings at all and got a steady push for 4 years
...


----------



## validreasoning

Nobody is going to move numbers that quick, it's a ridiculous argument. Austin didn't for 18 months after his initial push at KOTR 96. Lesnar beat rock, Hogan, taker clean, won wwe title, rumble and mainevented mania in one year and had next to no effect on business in 2003, in fact it fell rapidly

Meltzer is a smart guy but sometimes he looks at business how Dixie Carter and TNA looked at business ie week to week.


----------



## ste1592

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

And? They've got Ronda, Brock, Cena, they had Reigns. Those were the so called "needle mover", and they didn't move the needle in a long time.

At this point, just be happy people are heavily invested in Becky and want her to succeed, it might be more useful long term than trying to find a replacement "that appeals to everybody" but in reality does nothing but make the McMahons think they know everything and their fans are morons.

I said it already somewhere else and I'll say it again: ratings are going to be in the shitter regardless of who you push, which means I'd rather see something that I enjoy than try and bring in people that won't watch anyway because they think wrestling it's lame, carny and idiotic.


----------



## The Phantom

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Of course Mordy created this thread...


----------



## Krin

Are you all shocked? Everyone's beloved AJ Styles didn't improve attendance or ratings either when he won the title from Mahal. Casuals aren't tuning in for a women's revolution or flippy indy guys. WWE needs a Punk, Rock or someone on that calibur. Brock as a part timer isn't enough.


----------



## Leon Knuckles

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

*Nobody moves numbers these days. That's on Vince.*


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who works for WWE.


----------



## llj

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



McNugget said:


> She's also been given fuck all for interesting angles since the Ronda stuff. She's not going to move numbers if she never does anything cool again.


You could say that for basically any wrestler. If you give any performer cool stuff to do, they would be more interesting

The only period last year when the WWE showed improvement, ratings wise (at least on RAW) over the previous year was January to April, which was up over 2017 around the same period. I don't know why, maybe it was Braun still being entertaining, or any number of factors. But numbers really started falling post Wrestlemania and it hasn't stopped.

Smackdown basically follows RAW in numbers. It's RAW that needs to be fixed first.


----------



## Shaun_27

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Is this the criteria of success? If she's getting a positive reaction in the current product then that's a massive positive in my opinion! I'm a simple man, if they are entertaining me, I don't care too much about numbers. If anyone is/was negatively affecting both the product and the ratings then I'd say something but this is far from the case here.


----------



## THE_OD

It's very hard to measure a wrestlers populairty on attendances alone. They are affected by so many other things.

- location
- the storylines
- other matchups and superstars
- outside factors like football, other wrestling shows and other events
- General popularity of the WWE
- etc

I guess merch sales are better, when it comes to measuring the popularity of an individual wrestler.


----------



## Sincere

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Smackdown did ~90% of Raw's viewership, which is on the high end in terms of the normal trend. On average, SD should have done less.

This is essentially blaming Becky for Raw's bad numbers, and she's not even the SD champion anymore. Haters are so desperate, it's truly amazing.


----------



## rbl85

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



Sincere said:


> Smackdown did ~90% of Raw's viewership, which is on the high end in terms of the normal trend. On average, SD should have done less.
> 
> This is essentially blaming Becky for Raw's bad numbers, and she's not even the SD champion anymore. Haters are so desperate, it's truly amazing.


When Becky was champion the numbers were also really bad so....


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



rbl85 said:


> When Becky was champion the numbers were also really bad so....


_*So was Charlotte and Carmella when they were champions. To blame it all on one person is insane. *_


----------



## Sincere

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



rbl85 said:


> When Becky was champion the numbers were also really bad so....


So... ? You going to finish that thought? Or was that the totality of your contribution?


----------



## Dr. Middy

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

When WWE pushes itself as bigger than all the wrestlers themselves, you can't really call anybody a draw anymore, nor can you blame that on them. 

Singling Becky out isn't fair really.


----------



## 777

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

There's a difference between winning over fans that are already watching and drawing new fans, or even worse drawing back disenfranchised ones.


----------



## tommo010

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Hilarious WON and Meltzer are totally written off as hacks with no credible information when they post something positive about Becky soon as something negative is posted they are credible again :beckylol


----------



## The Quintessential Mark

No big deal screw ratings.


----------



## Mear

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Where were all those people defending Jinder Mahal during his reign ? People always ratings to bash those they don't like and ignore it to praise those they like, no surprise here but on another hand, the fans need to stop bragging about the fact she belongs in the main-event of Wrestlemania. 

That's the difference between AJ Styles and Becky Lynch, no one was asking AJ to main-event Wrestlemania like Becky Lynch. She's not diamond, she's a good talent who deserve to get pushed in her division but she doesn't have the hype her fans think she have.


----------



## ChampWhoRunsDaCamp

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Worst thread of all time.

Becky doesn't draw but that puts her in good company with Ronda, Lesnar, Cena, Taker, Daniel Bryan, Goldberg , The Rock and Stone cold. 

Many of those guys were draws in their time, one of them is arguably the biggest box office draw on the planet but it's not the personnel that are the issue. No one draws anymore because most people just don't want to watch wrestling in 2019.

People are so quick to blame the talent when the truth is that Wrestling is a dying art among the masses. it's just not popular and it's only going to decline further. The average age of the fanbase gets older every year and attendances keep dropping off.

Falling attendances have nothing to do with Reigns, Ronda, Becky or whoever else WWE decide to push. The industry is in terminal decline at least as far as attendances are concerned. People have so many options now to spend their leisure time. Why would anyone want to waste 5+ Hours every week watching a wrestling program when they can follow the story lines in 2 mins online and watch the PPV's if they care about them?


----------



## Mordecay

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



tommo010 said:


> Hilarious WON and Meltzer are totally written off as hacks with no credible information when they post something positive about Becky soon as something negative is posted they are credible again :beckylol


I actually think it is the other way around. If you read the observer or listen to his radio shows Meltzer, up until this point, has had nothing but praise to Becky and a lot of her fans have been using his opinion or his star ratings to defend their position about her, but as soon as he criticizes her a little bit they write him off and say "it's just his opinion".


----------



## llj

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

For what it's worth, on the radio Meltzer also added that he thinks nobody in the company really is moving extra numbers either.


----------



## Swindle

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

The problem is, the WWE has damaged their brand so much, no one can move numbers. The brand is damaged and performers are damaged. And time and time again, anyone who gets over, gets the rug pulled out from under them. So the fanbase that is watching, they are demoralized. I also think in terms of what Becky has been given, its decent, but they could do a lot more. Also, the heat is with people on the other brand, so there's that too. 

Fixing the problems with the WWE is going to take A LOT.


----------



## Piehound

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

On Becky v Charlotte v Carmella - it could be because everyone knew how it would go. We've seen Becky / Charlotte before and everyone knew Carmella was in that match to take the loss. Given how hot Becky is now it it was fairly apparent she would be going to face Asuka. They really haven't done anything to capitalize on how over she is since the invasion of Raw.. Everyone was talking out that and her. So how does WWE capitalize on that?! By doing the same old crap they were before...

Someone mentioned Punk, and it was similar with him. Punk walking out with the title was the hottest thing going. It was even getting some mainstream coverage. But the WWE basically pissed it away..


----------



## Bratista

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



Cooper09 said:


> Like CM Punk. As over as he was with the live crowds and smarks, during his 434 day title reign, he was a proven ratings killer. The truth be told is that the general audience just don't give a rats ass about the women.


They don't give a rats ass about the men either. Even the heralded Brock Lesnar doesn't do much for the ratings either now.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Well nobody really draws or does numbers now so I don't get what the point of this report was.


----------



## Jables

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

The last person to actually "move numbers" in a positive direction, was Ambrose in 16'. Since then, both shows have largely focused on personal agenda pushes, spotlight stealing McMahons, and/or novelty acts. Get rid of the Bullshit, unleash the real Draw, and give the "IWC" their 'fickle' dreams on Smarkdown. Then Becky and whoever else can be a good little sister or brother to their Big Brose.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



Leon Knuckles said:


> *Nobody moves numbers these days. That's on Vince.*


The wrestling bubble is shrinking in general. That's not on Vince. There are just more interesting things out there for non-diehard wrestling fans to consume. No wrestling fans are out there telling their non-wrestling fan friends to watch wrestling. You can't force numbers to move without an intriguing enough catalyst and performer at the top of the pile.



Krin said:


> Are you all shocked? Everyone's beloved AJ Styles didn't improve attendance or ratings either when he won the title from Mahal. Casuals aren't tuning in for a women's revolution or flippy indy guys. WWE needs a Punk, Rock or someone on that calibur. Brock as a part timer isn't enough.


Punk meant nothing to casuals when he was a full time performer and likely wouldn't resonate with them now beyond the initial curiosity. 

There is no quick fix for the downturn in business. It's down year over year. from last year. Celebrity involvement isn't how you fix that.

Someone mentioned Tyson and McGregor as potentially being similar type situations(if they can get McGregor) and while that's partly true the wrestling business in 1998 was on an upswing as a whole and Tyson was possibly at his most notorious point in his entire career. Right now wrestling is in a downswing and McGregor is less interesting as a media entity especially if he would have to adhere to a PG rating.





BTheVampireSlayer said:


> _*To be honest not one person on Smackdown moves numbers in this era. And another thing, the reason why the numbers are decreasing is because it's football season, the talents don't have any control on their bookings, storylines and stuff last week. Becky gets cheered heavily, I agree with them there. In order to get numbers up is a group effort and creative staffs job as well. *_



Football has no effect on SD. SD is on Tuesdays. During the regular season games are on Sunday, Monday and Thursday and this past week was playoffs so it was only Saturday and Sunday. Literally no competition from football unless of course you mean the NCAA game that was on Monday. So, of course, that also had no effect on SD.

SD is literally football proof by its place on the schedule and will be still when they move to FOX and Fridays.

Anybody using the football argument in defense of SD's ratings is ridiculous.


----------



## Hephaesteus

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Why are people getting offended? hes just stating a fact. He's not even suggesting that Becky shouldn't be pushed.


----------



## Mordecay

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



Hephaesteus said:


> Why are people getting offended? hes just stating a fact. He's not even suggesting that Becky shouldn't be pushed.


Like the Rock says: There are a lot of snowflakes in this world who get easily offended if you don't share their opinion


----------



## McNugget

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



llj said:


> You could say that for basically any wrestler. If you give any performer cool stuff to do, they would be more interesting
> 
> The only period last year when the WWE showed improvement, ratings wise (at least on RAW) over the previous year was January to April, which was up over 2017 around the same period. I don't know why, maybe it was Braun still being entertaining, or any number of factors. But numbers really started falling post Wrestlemania and it hasn't stopped.
> 
> Smackdown basically follows RAW in numbers. It's RAW that needs to be fixed first.


Yes that is quite literally my point thanks!


----------



## Brodus Clay

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Shes over but WWE storylines still sucks, also shes just one character how many minutes she contribute to WWE?, they need a lot of guys that are over and more now than the past when they only had RAW which was 2 hours, now how many hours produce WWE each week?, 10?


----------



## Lockard The GOAT

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Well, who IS moving numbers? No one individual is a big draw at the moment. 

Becky hasn't even gotten the kind of push yet where you'd expect her to make a difference. It takes months for anyone to build up steam and her babyface push has only really just gotten started. If she gets pushed hard as Ronda's opponent at WrestleMania (which is what millions and millions will tune in to see, thus garnering her more attention) and ends up going over her, that would do a lot more for her popularity with casuals moving forward.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

How the fuck is she supposed to move ratings when she never fucking does anything? She spent 3 weeks in a row sitting at ringside watching Asuka wrestle FFS.

Also, she is not the champion. Nobody expects Rollins or Strowman to move numbers on Raw. Of course it's _different _for Becky though... Charlotte has the most sustained push in WWE history for a female, and has never drawn a dime, yet again though, it's _different _for Becky, right.

This rant is directed at Dave Meltzer btw, before you get your panties in a twist Mord.


----------



## rbl85

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



BTheVampireSlayer said:


> _*So was Charlotte and Carmella when they were champions. To blame it all on one person is insane. *_


Nobody blame Becky….

The article is just saying that she's not a draw but that's not her fault if the product is bad.


----------



## Rex Rasslin

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Women's Wrestling has been in the business for over 100 years never drew a single dime - not a dime! The thing is people are more interested in watching sexy half naked valvets and bra & panties matches and this will never change that's for sure.

After all sex still sells :trolldog


----------



## WindPhoenix

The WWE Brand in general is weakening because of bad policies (mainly the Saudi stuff that got quite a bit of bad press) and the mindset that no one is a star, the brand is.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Why are we babying Becky? Look it's fun to see the crowd united behind someone, but you can't just ignore ratings still dropping as if it doesn't matter. She's in arguably the best storyline going. Becky's getting a ton of TV time and spotlight as well. You can't knock Vince's favorites for not drawing, while giving every excuse in the world for a Becky/Bryan/AJ when they're not drawing. Not saying I expect her to be drawing but keep standards the same jeez lol


----------



## WindPhoenix

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Becky's heel booking while strong is detrimental since they were trying to keep her hot, unaware that keeping her hot was stopping her from getting heat. Another issue is that her Lasskicker character booking is in the ring, when it should have been dropped the second she turned since they are complete opposites. This is one instance where Becky should just stay serious and go her own way instead of letting fans have any input on her character direction. She is at her best when she focuses on one serious character direction and stick with it instead of being scattershot.


----------



## Disruptive_One

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Becky doesn’t sell merch either.


----------



## Styl1994

Tbf To Becky Lynch nobody draws that’s because WWE have told everyone the brand is the draw and until that changes the ratings won’t have a big improvement or the network subscribers won’t go up. Unless you have that star to bring new fans in the way Hogan did in the 80s or Austin and Rock did in the 90s.


----------



## drougfree

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

stone cold becky lynch :bryanlol


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



RapShepard said:


> Why are we babying Becky? Look it's fun to see the crowd united behind someone, but you can't just ignore ratings still dropping as if it doesn't matter. She's in arguably the best storyline going. Becky's getting a ton of TV time and spotlight as well. You can't knock Vince's favorites for not drawing, while giving every excuse in the world for a Becky/Bryan/AJ when they're not drawing. Not saying I expect her to be drawing but keep standards the same jeez lol


You're never going to get that to happen on here. 

Vince is the devil to most people here. Who he pushes are always the wrong person and even when he elevates these darling type performers and things don't go well it's all Vince's fault and not even remotely possible that these darling performers are(or are potentially) just as wrong for that spot as the so-called "chosen" ones. 

I see people on here mentioning Austin's push and it not changing numbers for 18 months but that's not the whole truth. His "push" starting with his KOTR win in 1996 (if you are to believe people's narrative) means that he wasn't in a decent storyline until October 1996( he was even left off of the main SummerSlam card in 1996( he worked the Free For All) Wasn't on the Mind Games card in September and opened the show at Buried Alive in a heatless match with Triple H) when he started feuding with Bret Hart and by the time Austin was a made man in mid 1997 it was already a year from that initial "push". People that are acting as if Becky is the second coming of Austin or are using his "push" as a comparison should do so with the right context. Becky isn't in a slow burn rise to the focal point of the show. She went from underutilized(if utilized at all) to focal point in a few weeks. You have to assess her on that merit and use the appropriate time in Austin's push as a comparison. Of course that wouldn't serve the right purpose in equating Becky to Austin because it clearly shows that she is nowhere near that level and business is nowhere near that good.


----------



## Dr. Middy

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



RapShepard said:


> Why are we babying Becky? Look it's fun to see the crowd united behind someone, but you can't just ignore ratings still dropping as if it doesn't matter. She's in arguably the best storyline going. Becky's getting a ton of TV time and spotlight as well. You can't knock Vince's favorites for not drawing, while giving every excuse in the world for a Becky/Bryan/AJ when they're not drawing. Not saying I expect her to be drawing but keep standards the same jeez lol


Problem is nobody is drawing because they don't present anybody bigger than the brands and Mcmahons themselves. I adore Becky's run and all, but she's just a very entertaining part of the show and appealing to a lot of current fans, but she's not doing anything more than that. There's nobody on the roster who are really moving rating, there hasn't been that in years. 

I have a problem blaming talent for ratings when they aren't portrayed as the ones who should be the draws.


----------



## EraOfGreat

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



TL Hopper said:


> Who actually moves numbers apart from Cena?


Lesnar?


----------



## validreasoning

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



MonkasaurusRex said:


> I see people on here mentioning Austin's push and it not changing numbers for 18 months but that's not the whole truth. His "push" starting with his KOTR win in 1996 (if you are to believe people's narrative) means that he wasn't in a decent storyline until October 1996( he was even left off of the main SummerSlam card in 1996( he worked the Free For All) Wasn't on the Mind Games card in September and opened the show at Buried Alive in a heatless match with Triple H) when he started feuding with Bret Hart and by the time Austin was a made man in mid 1997 it was already a year from that initial "push".


Austin himself wasn't moving numbers in mid 97. That didn't happen until he became vocal/focal point of show and he got into spat with hottest sports star on Earth ie Tyson, won title in mainevent of Wrestlemania and then began feuding and humiliating Vince every week.




> People that are acting as if Becky is the second coming of Austin or are using his "push" as a comparison should do so with the right context. Becky isn't in a slow burn rise to the focal point of the show. She went from underutilized(if utilized at all) to focal point in a few weeks. You have to assess her on that merit. She isn't succeeding to a level where(in most situations) her push would suggest she should. Now the fact that nobody is succeeding to that level right now is a valid argument but it doesn't absolve Becky of not delivering on ratings especially when most of her more ardent fans have likely bemoaned the fact of falling ratings and placed blame solely on performers that they aren't fans of.


I don't see her as next Austin as I never see wwe getting behind Becky like they got behind Austin in 1998..and obviously you don't have millions of wrestling fans not watching raw ready to flip over when something gets buzz behind it like in 1998. 

Slow burn and underutilized are easily interchangable in pro wrestling depending in your viewpoint. Was losing to savio Vega or wrestling in free for fall slow burn or underutilized? Difference between Austin and Becky is that Austin was fresher to WWE fans while Becky's been 3.5 years on main roster and another 2 on nxt mostly playing a midcarder. Of course at what point do fans view you as a midcard for life like they did Benoit and Guerrero despite their 2004 pushes.

Can you explain more in detail why her push isn't succeeding at a required level. I mean she has been pushed as heel which would would suggest a babyface will take her down. She won the SD women's title which was one of lowest wwe titles prior to Summerslam and she elevated it to top 3 in importance. She mainevented one ppv which sold out in advance..a rare enough occurance for a wwe December ppv. Her meet and greet sold out instantly for upcoming rumble...the only wrestler to do so.


----------



## WindPhoenix

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Becky's making the most out of her shot. There are many issues with how it was done especially with the heel turn being done on Charlotte when Becky was at the finish line. Her edge can work face or heel. I think that Fans have always seen her as main event. What hurt her in 2017 was being too selfless, putting over inferior talent like Natalya. 

Smackdown has a tendency of cooling people down for long periods of time and then heating them up again. It can hurt their draw by doing this.


----------



## Hurricanes18

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



Dr. Middy said:


> Problem is nobody is drawing because they don't present anybody bigger than the brands and Mcmahons themselves. I adore Becky's run and all, but she's just a very entertaining part of the show and appealing to a lot of current fans, but she's not doing anything more than that. There's nobody on the roster who are really moving rating, there hasn't been that in years.
> 
> I have a problem blaming talent for ratings when they aren't portrayed as the ones who should be the draws.


Ratings are subjective. I don't think their is anyone on the current main roster who could shift numbers or ratings. Only Rock possibly could do that. If your holding Becky or any talent for that matter personally responsible for Numbers. Then well its just fan bias.


----------



## ChampWhoRunsDaCamp

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



Disruptive_One said:


> Becky doesn’t sell merch either.


No adult with any kind of style or self respect buy's the terrible merch WWE put out anyway.

Most wrestling merch is designed for kids but it's main consumers are autistic 6'2 men who like to take selfies in their little miss bliss T shirts.

Seeing wrestlers post pictures of fans wearing their gear is like looking at the preview of the next episode of Jerry Springer.


----------



## ellthom

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Who is moving numbers in WWE right now thats the real question


----------



## rbl85

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



ellthom said:


> Who is moving numbers in WWE right now thats the real question


Cena ?

The Rock if he come back again ?


----------



## Tag89

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



TL Hopper said:


> Who actually *moves numbers* apart from Cena?





EraOfGreat said:


> *Lesnar*?


lol no

as for becky being compared to stone cold, the business has changed massively in 20 years. it isn't mainstream anymore, it isn't cool/'in', face/heel dynamics seem to be gg, they're more interested in being an all round entertainment company than a wrestling company, most people i know who were wrestling fans would rather watch ufc or boxing nowadays etc

the rise of social media has also changed things, for the worse IMO

add all this together, and you aren't going to get one or two people 'drawing' hugely like the good old days


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



Hurricanes18 said:


> Ratings are subjective. I don't think their is anyone on the current main roster who could shift numbers or ratings. Only Rock possibly could do that. If your holding Becky or any talent for that matter personally responsible for Numbers. Then well its just fan bias.


TV Ratings are a quantitative measure that is used by networks to determine the viability of continuing to air a TV program. All TV ratings are subjective because personal taste and opinion determine whether you watch it but it's only subjective from outside the industry. It shouldn't matter to fans what the ratings are but if you are in charge of a TV show or a company that produces a TV show you need to take ratings seriously or seriously enough that you don't continue to put out a program that people are actively tuning out of. Low ratings means low viewership which usually leads to no more TV show. This isn't specific to Becky Lynch and her current position but if she isn't part of the solution she is part of the problem and her spot and or push should be evaluated as such. The same goes for Lesnar and everyone else on the roster.


----------



## yeahbaby!

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

I don't subject myself to watching RAW or SD generally (I don't have 'pay tv' here so I'd have to borrow it), but from the sounds of it on recaps and the highlights I see etc, both shows are absolutely horrendous aside from about 10 - 15% that contains the Bryans, the Asukas, The Becky's etc, who I'm a big fan of.

So how many casuals or new viewers going to sit through fucking three hour 'sports entertainment' shows of 80% crap just to see Becky or the likes of her? That's the main point here IMO. In 2000 you had the biggest draw in the Rock for people to tune into, but you also had meaningful feuds for a very talented mid card as well that added the icing on the cake. That does not exist any more.

It's not about building stars in to ratings draws anymore, it's about building the overall 'sports entertainment company' into branding, monetizing and selling every single square space.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



MonkasaurusRex said:


> You're never going to get that to happen on here.
> 
> Vince is the devil to most people here. Who he pushes are always the wrong person and even when he elevates these darling type performers and things don't go well it's all Vince's fault and not even remotely possible that these darling performers are(or are potentially) just as wrong for that spot as the so-called "chosen" ones.
> 
> I see people on here mentioning Austin's push and it not changing numbers for 18 months but that's not the whole truth. His "push" starting with his KOTR win in 1996 (if you are to believe people's narrative) means that he wasn't in a decent storyline until October 1996( he was even left off of the main SummerSlam card in 1996( he worked the Free For All) Wasn't on the Mind Games card in September and opened the show at Buried Alive in a heatless match with Triple H) when he started feuding with Bret Hart and by the time Austin was a made man in mid 1997 it was already a year from that initial "push". People that are acting as if Becky is the second coming of Austin or are using his "push" as a comparison should do so with the right context. Becky isn't in a slow burn rise to the focal point of the show. She went from underutilized(if utilized at all) to focal point in a few weeks. You have to assess her on that merit and use the appropriate time in Austin's push as a comparison. Of course that wouldn't serve the right purpose in equating Becky to Austin because it clearly shows that she is nowhere near that level and business is nowhere near that good.


Oh I know it will never be admitted, it's just silly though. Like this willingness to be so understanding only happens with the darlings and it's so hypocritical. Becky's getting to embarrass Legends like Cena and Edge, is getting tons of TV time, getting treated like a deal. But apparently that doesn't mean she's supposed to be seen as a big star for the show, that's worth tuning in for [emoji849]



Dr. Middy said:


> Problem is nobody is drawing because they don't present anybody bigger than the brands and Mcmahons themselves. I adore Becky's run and all, but she's just a very entertaining part of the show and appealing to a lot of current fans, but she's not doing anything more than that. There's nobody on the roster who are really moving rating, there hasn't been that in years.
> 
> I have a problem blaming talent for ratings when they aren't portrayed as the ones who should be the draws.


The problem is this doesn't apply to all. When Jinder, Reigns, Charlotte, and Ronda are pulling in shitty ratings it's because "nobody wants to see them, Vince needs to switch to what the fans want and the ratings would go up". Yet when Styles, Bryan, and Becky can't draw (on the same show no less), suddenly it's "nobody is a draw, the brand is the draw, you can't blame talent for ratings".

No matter how you slice it Becky has been a very big focal point on SmackDown, she's getting just as much attention as Styles and Bryan who've both been WWE champion the last few months. I mean she's getting to clown legends like Edge, getting to show Cena up, she's being presented like a badass who can talk the talk and will walk the walk. She's being booked well. If Charlotte was getting those segments, there wouldn't be a thread full of people saying it's not her fault.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

No shit Becky doesn't draw. Women in general don't draw in wrestling. Wrestling is about perception. No one takes a 100 pound woman putting on a badass act seriously.


----------



## The Wood

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

She's over with crowds, but you've got to give things time to see if things are going to take off larger than that. Probably not. The rest of WWE sucks and there are plenty of people that are not going to get into women's wrestling yet or have just been conditioned to "wait and see" because everything fucks up in WWE's hands. Like, come Mania, Becky might not be in that title picture everyone thinks she will be in, and she might not win if she is, and things will become a self-fulfilling prophecy and she might cool considerably. I'm sure they'll lock her up in a nice five-year deal before they push her though.

But if you want to see that change, you can't cut bait over one TV rating because a freakin' Triple Threat to decide who gets a match that is a detour in the bigger story didn't draw.


----------



## DesoloutionRow

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



Hurricanes18 said:


> Ratings are subjective.


I don't think that word means what you think it means.


----------



## Mordecay

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



RapShepard said:


> Oh I know it will never be admitted, it's just silly though. Like this willingness to be so understanding only happens with the darlings and it's so hypocritical. Becky's getting to embarrass Legends like Cena and Edge, is getting tons of TV time, getting treated like a deal. But apparently that doesn't mean she's supposed to be seen as a big star for the show, that's worth tuning in for [emoji849]
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is this doesn't apply to all. When Jinder, Reigns, Charlotte, and Ronda are pulling in shitty ratings it's because "nobody wants to see them, Vince needs to switch to what the fans want and the ratings would go up". Yet when Styles, Bryan, and Becky can't draw (on the same show no less), suddenly it's "nobody is a draw, the brand is the draw, you can't blame talent for ratings".
> 
> No matter how you slice it Becky has been a very big focal point on SmackDown, she's getting just as much attention as Styles and Bryan who've both been WWE champion the last few months. I mean she's getting to clown legends like Edge, getting to show Cena up, she's being presented like a badass who can talk the talk and will walk the walk. She's being booked well. *If Charlotte was getting those segments, there wouldn't be a thread full of people saying it's not her fault.*


This so much :clap:clap

If this was any other woman that is not as beloved as her (Charlotte, Natalya, Alexa) people would be shitting on them left and right, but since it is Becky she gets a pass, it's not her fault, the double standards when it comes to her are incredible :lol


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



Mordecay said:


> This so much :clap:clap
> 
> 
> 
> If this was any other woman that is not as beloved as her (Charlotte, Natalya, Alexa) people would be shitting on them left and right, but since it is Becky she gets a pass, it's not her fault, the double standards when it comes to her are incredible [emoji38]


Nah it's not just her, it's folk hardcore fans support in general. And I definitely subscribe to the idea that nobody is a draw today, in the sense of boosting ratings. But let's just keep that same energy when folk perceived as Vince's favorites fail to increase ratings too.


----------



## Dr. Middy

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



RapShepard said:


> The problem is this doesn't apply to all. When Jinder, Reigns, Charlotte, and Ronda are pulling in shitty ratings it's because "nobody wants to see them, Vince needs to switch to what the fans want and the ratings would go up". Yet when Styles, Bryan, and Becky can't draw (on the same show no less), suddenly it's "nobody is a draw, the brand is the draw, you can't blame talent for ratings".
> 
> No matter how you slice it Becky has been a very big focal point on SmackDown, she's getting just as much attention as Styles and Bryan who've both been WWE champion the last few months. I mean she's getting to clown legends like Edge, getting to show Cena up, she's being presented like a badass who can talk the talk and will walk the walk. She's being booked well. If Charlotte was getting those segments, there wouldn't be a thread full of people saying it's not her fault.


I mean, some people are going to have some fan bias if they like certain wrestlers. I try my best to be impartial when talking about stuff like this specifically because I know the whole discussion of ratings is far and away larger than any specific wrestler these days because they don't have one person who effects them that greatly, nor do they seem to want somebody who could command attention like that (given like I mentioned with the brand being larger than everybody in the company).

I like Smackdown quite a bit right now, and I have for months now, yet ratings aren't really improving. At best they are somewhat more steady with Raw which I guess could be called good news in a way. And yes I understand that Becky is getting a lot on the show, but what should I say? Just blame her for the ratings and be done with it? Does any other argument made simply mean I'm just looking to deflect blame because I'm a huge fan of hers?

A select bunch may have some bias, doesn't mean it negates any argument made.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



Dr. Middy said:


> I mean, some people are going to have some fan bias if they like certain wrestlers. I try my best to be impartial when talking about stuff like this specifically because I know the whole discussion of ratings is far and away larger than any specific wrestler these days because they don't have one person who effects them that greatly, nor do they seem to want somebody who could command attention like that (given like I mentioned with the brand being larger than everybody in the company).
> 
> 
> 
> I like Smackdown quite a bit right now, and I have for months now, yet ratings aren't really improving. At best they are somewhat more steady with Raw which I guess could be called good news in a way. And yes I understand that Becky is getting a lot on the show, but what should I say? Just blame her for the ratings and be done with it? Does any other argument made simply mean I'm just looking to deflect blame because I'm a huge fan of hers?
> 
> 
> 
> A select bunch may have some bias, doesn't mean it negates any argument made.


And I can get that if you don't personally ever blame any one person for ratings. But we both know this forum as a whole, doesn't keep the same energy for all wrestlers. Not blaming Becky makes sense because it really isn't her fault, and there really isn't anybody else in the company that's going to bring up ratings. My point is simply on consistency. Makes no sense to call for the heads of some when they fail to draw. Yet find all the context for lack of drawing when others fail to draw. Don't baby her, if she was someone perceived as getting Vince hard, the thread would be mostly about how Vince doesn't know what the fans want to see and she should be depushed.


----------



## Dr. Middy

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



RapShepard said:


> And I can get that if you don't personally ever blame any one person for ratings. But we both know this forum as a whole, doesn't keep the same energy for all wrestlers. Not blaming Becky makes sense because it really isn't her fault, and there really isn't anybody else in the company that's going to bring up ratings. My point is simply on consistency. Makes no sense to call for the heads of some when they fail to draw. Yet find all the context for lack of drawing when others fail to draw. Don't baby her, if she was someone perceived as getting Vince hard, the thread would be mostly about how Vince doesn't know what the fans want to see and she should be depushed.


You probably won't see consistency here sadly, or on any forum what have you, it's just the nature of how some forums work, whether that be for wrestling, or for something like Star Wars, or a favorite band. It's kinda the norm, and while it isn't a bad thing to have some bias towards a favorite, it does make it difficult to have consistency with opinions sometimes. 

I really only care if you get those who do the opposite of what you're saying and blame everything she's gotten and her lack of effect on ratings as a result, since that it was never going to happen anyway.


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



Mordecay said:


> This so much :clap:clap
> 
> If this was any other woman that is not as beloved as her (Charlotte, Natalya, Alexa) people would be shitting on them left and right, but since it is Becky she gets a pass, it's not her fault, the double standards when it comes to her are incredible :lol


How the hell is Becky Lynch "getting a pass" in general when she also gets criticized by non-fans more frequently over the past month? Becky IS like any other woman since she's also getting blamed (unfairly) for the low ratings just like ANYONE ELSE who gets pushed around the main-event scene. 

I don't see much of any "double standards" on here since I see more people claiming that the lame decisions made by management is the reason why fans continue to tune out (regardless of who's on top) than I see folks blaming the poor ratings on the talents themselves. There has rarely been much of inconsistency on which talents gets blamed and which talents doesn't get blamed. If anything, folks on here have been more consistent with that lately; but hey, you can keep assuming/pretending that the Becky fanbase is generally comprised of "hypocrites" unk2

I'm also not surprised that you started this thread (which is pretty moot to begin with) considering your recent stance on Becky :lol


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



Dr. Middy said:


> You probably won't see consistency here sadly, or on any forum what have you, it's just the nature of how some forums work, whether that be for wrestling, or for something like Star Wars, or a favorite band. It's kinda the norm, and while it isn't a bad thing to have some bias towards a favorite, it does make it difficult to have consistency with opinions sometimes.
> 
> 
> 
> I really only care if you get those who do the opposite of what you're saying and blame everything she's gotten and her lack of effect on ratings as a result, since that it was never going to happen anyway.


Yeah internet going to internet. But it's just funny how quickly folk remember WWE ratings have been falling forever regardless of who's in the spotlight when their favorite is in the hot seat.


----------



## ManiacMichaelMyers

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Hmm. Odd auto-generated post that listed my username.
No comment on this thread.


----------



## EMGESP

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Nobody moves numbers outside some part timers like The Rock. WWE is dying a slow death. They have a problem creating new fans.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



DammitC said:


> How the hell is Becky Lynch "getting a pass" in general when she also gets criticized by non-fans more frequently over the past month? Becky IS like any other woman since she's also getting blamed (unfairly) for the low ratings just like ANYONE ELSE who gets pushed around the main-event scene.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see much of any "double standards" on here since I see more people claiming that the lame decisions made by management is the reason why fans continue to tune out (regardless of who's on top) than I see folks blaming the
> 
> poor ratings on the talents themselves. There has rarely been much of inconsistency on which talents gets blamed and which talents doesn't get blamed. If anything, folks on here have been more consistent with that lately; but hey, you can keep assuming/pretending that the Becky fanbase is generally comprised of "hypocrites" unk2
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also not surprised that you started this thread (which is pretty moot to begin with) considering your recent stance on Becky [emoji38]


Come on, you know darn well folk like Reigns, Jinder, Brock, Charlotte, and Ronda don't get much "well nobody draws" flak


----------



## Illogical

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Did people expect her to move numbers? Honestly. That goes for every individual wrestler.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

The difference with someone like AJ and Becky is that at least with AJ, we know he is a proven merchandise mover, with Becky, she literally offers nothing but strong crowd reactions.

And Ronda may not be of value to ratings specifically, but she is without a doubt the most valuable person in the company. Fox was the partner of the UFC, and Ronda being in the WWE absolutely swayed them to try to get WWE programming. Look at Ronda's YouTube numbers as well, I generally don't like to use YouTube as a metric, but Ronda's numbers are FAR ahead of the majority of the roster, with her it's clear she's a bigger star.

Becky hasn't impacted ratings, merchandise isn't moving stronger and her YouTube numbers are mediocre at best(the only segments of her that have done well were the invasion angle and the segment with Cena)


----------



## Kratosx23

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

No shit. So there's no reason to push extra hard to have her in the WM main event or have to protect her from doing a job to Asuka. Hopefully Vince understands at least the latter.


----------



## Mordecay

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



DammitC said:


> How the hell is Becky Lynch "getting a pass" in general when she also gets criticized by non-fans more frequently over the past month? Becky IS like any other woman since she's also getting blamed (unfairly) for the low ratings just like ANYONE ELSE who gets pushed around the main-event scene.
> 
> I don't see much of any "double standards" on here since I see more people claiming that the lame decisions made by management is the reason why fans continue to tune out (regardless of who's on top) than I see folks blaming the
> poor ratings on the talents themselves. There has rarely been much of inconsistency on which talents gets blamed and which talents doesn't get blamed. If anything, folks on here have been more consistent with that lately; but hey, you can keep assuming/pretending that the Becky fanbase is generally comprised of "hypocrites" unk2
> 
> *I'm also not surprised that you started this thread (which is pretty moot to begin with) considering your recent stance on Becky* :lol


Let's face it, with how much this forum loves Becky probably no one would have posted this if I didn't do it and, given the amount of replies so far, it seems like it isn't a moot point at all :shrug.

And, let's not pretend that, when the ratings reports appeared and they weren't good the majority of people blamed Roman, blamed AJ, blamed Seth, but as soon as Becky is put in that main event position and she also doesn't draw it is the moment to say that "well, no one is draw, it's not her fault". Maybe you didn't, like you have said previously, but there were (and there are) lots of people who did and do that. What I say is that, the moment you blame a wrestler for shitty ratings you can't defend another one when it is in the same position just because you like him/her


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Also, I don't even think Becky is that great of a Wrestler, has she legitimantly had a great match that didn't involve stipulations? I didn't watcher her NXT stuff, but her regular matches with Charlotte were good, not great. 

The LMS and TLC matches were fantastic, but they were car crash matches, and I would argue both Charlotte and Auska upstaged her in the TLC match. 

Compare Ronda's regular match with Charlotte at Survivor Series, and Becky's match at HIAC, Ronda's match was leagues better, and you had a DQ in the SS match.

I just don't really get the hype behind Becky, she's good, but a clear #4 to me behind Ronda, Charlotte and Auska.


----------



## domotime2

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

who actually IS moving numbers though?


----------



## Ucok

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Try to be realistic in here, Vince also know that wrestling entertainment industry already die after Monday Night Wars over and win by WWE even when Bischoff want do same thing again in 2010, Vince won't respond it because he know it will lead his company to nothing.

That's why Vince always busy to gain more profit and ignore the rating thing since mid 2000, like sell more merch, held live event more crazy than before to get more income from tickets sell, convince the investors to buy share or put their money to his company. If one day WWE could gain more than 2 millions network subscribers (let's say 2,5 millions), then the tv rating won't matter anymore


----------



## domotime2

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Also, I don't even think Becky is that great of a Wrestler, has she legitimantly had a great match that didn't involve stipulations? I didn't watcher her NXT stuff, but her regular matches with Charlotte were good, not great.
> 
> The LMS and TLC matches were fantastic, but they were car crash matches, and I would argue both Charlotte and Auska upstaged her in the TLC match.
> 
> Compare Ronda's regular match with Charlotte at Survivor Series, and Becky's match at HIAC, Ronda's match was leagues better, and you had a DQ in the SS match.
> 
> I just don't really get the hype behind Becky, she's good, but a clear #4 to me behind Ronda, Charlotte and Auska.


she's the best promo by FAR out of the four. Her in-ring work is on par with all four of them but when it comes to in-ring work it's not even remotely close.

It's why the stone cold comparison is so appropriate. Was stone cold the number 1 best wrestler? in-ring? probably not. but it didn't matter. His character work was the best of all time and was a king on the mic, so his matches were better because of them.



Mordecay said:


> Let's face it, with how much this forum loves Becky probably no one would have posted this if I didn't do it and, given the amount of replies so far, it seems like it doesn't seem like it is mood at all :shrug.
> 
> And, let's not pretend that, when the ratings reports appeared and they weren't good the majority of people blamed Roman, blamed AJ, blamed Seth, but as soon as Becky is put in that main event position and she also doesn't draw it is the moment to say that "well, no one is draw, it's not her fault". Maybe you didn't, like you have said previously, but there were (and there are) lots of people who did and do that. What I say is that, the moment you blame a wrestler for shitty ratings you can't defend another one when it is in the same position just because you like him/her


well those people were idiots. BUT come on now... you can not compare the push Roman Reigns got comapred to anyone else you listed. He was pushed as the #1 guy for almost 3 years and the ratings didn't go ANYWHERE. 

Now look, i dont think that's his fault per-say, but when you're in that position as the #1 week to week guy and nothing changes in terms of low ratings...then it sorta falls on you.

While Becky is the #1 at the moment, she is not getting a Roman treatment. To put any blame for ratings on her is ridiculous (it was ridiculous for roman too but at least you could try and make some correlation)


----------



## Ace

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

lol @ AJ not getting heat for ratings, the only person who has caught more heat for ratings is Roman.

Now it's Seth and Corbin getting blamed for Raw's low ratings, while there's nothing but excuses coming for Becky Lynch.

The funny thing is Becky's been pushed harder than any of these guys barring Roman, and usually when you're hot there should be a some improvement, so far there's been zilch and the show has continued to fall with Raw.

Meltzer said the viewers likely didn't switch over to the Trump address, I'm not so sure of that. This week will be telling to see what they have without Cena on the show and no competition.

It's true you cannot blame it on one person, however Becky Lynch is on a hot run and is held to different standard considering the company is backing her. We've seen some increases during hot runs (Bryan's run and Punk's pipebomb), so far that hasn't happened, that and the backing of the company is the difference between her and the others.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Isn’t everyone in that category?

Or the category of someone who is popular with the current fanbase but isn’t keeping those fans interested enough either. I mean AJ, Becky, Bryan, Rollins are all popular but the ratings still drop each week.


----------



## Ace

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Isn’t everyone in that category?
> 
> Or the category of someone who is popular with the current fanbase but isn’t keeping those fans interested enough either. I mean AJ, Becky, Bryan, Rollins are all popular but the ratings still drop each week.


 AJ Styles main evented zero dual brand PPVs since the split and was a midcard champion for most of his time as WWE Champion. Bryan, Asuka, Charlotte and Becky have all main evented more dual brand PPVs than him, while 3 of them get key spots on SD, AJ is either not on the show or in some random segment slot.

He was booked below Roman-Joe and the IC title match, along with the fuck finishes to the majority of his matches and looking like a geek every other week selling a low blow and people really wonder why he's not drawing?

AJ has been a top 3 merch seller for the last 3 years (he was going back and forth with Roman for #2 until they started booking him like a joke of a babyface world champion), this year it might come to end with how pathetic they made him look like in 2018. He's usually booked for 3 SDs a month, 2 of those appearances are either backstage and last a minute to 2 minutes, so it's not like he's out there getting fans interested in him.

I'm the biggest mark of his on here, and I'd be relieved to see him out of the main event scene so he can get regain some momentum in the midcard without out their BS booking dragging him down.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



domotime2 said:


> who actually IS moving numbers though?


Is this the only argument people have?

How about this as the focal point of the show she is moving numbers... backward. She got no momentum from punking out Cena people didn't tune in to see her wrestle this past week in a pre-announced match.

I'm not saying that it is her fault by any means but as I said before if in the prominent position she is in she isn't part of a solution to falling ratings then she is just as much a part of the problem as everything and everyone else.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



domotime2 said:


> she's the best promo by FAR out of the four. Her in-ring work is on par with all four of them but when it comes to in-ring work it's not even remotely close.
> 
> It's why the stone cold comparison is so appropriate. Was stone cold the number 1 best wrestler? in-ring? probably not. but it didn't matter. His character work was the best of all time and was a king on the mic, so his matches were better because of them.


Her in ring work absolutely isn't on par, she's clearly the worst of the 4, not bad by any means, but not at the other three's level.

And I'd argue that Charlotte is better. And Ronda is hit or miss, but when she hits, it's a lot better than Becky. Add the fact that Ronda has been on TV for less than a year, her development as a character and promo is rapid.


----------



## Ace

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



MonkasaurusRex said:


> Is this the only argument people have?
> 
> How about this as the focal point of the show she is moving numbers... backward. She got no momentum from punking out Cena people didn't tune in to see her wrestle this past week in a pre-announced match.
> 
> I'm not saying that it is her fault by any means but as I said before if in the prominent position she is in she isn't part of a solution to falling ratings then she is just as much a part of the problem as everything and everyone else.


 How many stars have the company actually gotten behind since Roman?

Becky's going to main event WM, the only full timer to do that other than Roman was Bryan in 2014 and that was forced by the fans.

Seth is likely going to beat Brock Lesnar and he's not going to even get close to that main event spot, the rumble he wins is going to in the midcard as well fpalm

Of course she should be held to higher standards.


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Did someone expect tons of fans to return simply because Becky Lynch and Daniel Bryan are champions?

Becky and Daniel might be popular as hell among wrestling fans but WWE has a lot of, for lack of a better word, faith to earn back before people start watching again.

Just speaking for myself, depending on how The Rumble goes I _might_ start tuning in again. But if I do and things start going back to the way they were a few months ago I'm gonna drop it like a hot oven tray.


----------



## ThEmB0neZ

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



Mordecay said:


> I actually think it is the other way around. If you read the observer or listen to his radio shows Meltzer, up until this point, has had nothing but praise to Becky and a lot of her fans have been using his opinion or his star ratings to defend their position about her, but as soon as he criticizes her a little bit they write him off and say "it's just his opinion".


Who's writing Meltzer off? I only seen people saying no one's moving the needle like Ronda,Reigns,Brock,AJ, Bryan, Charlotte Alexa,Sasha ect.. (which is the truth)I listened to Dave and he was just speaking the obvious that attendance is low and ratings are down on BOTH BRANDS. Becky is the hottest star so it's not surprising that he would bring her up. He even said it's not Becky's fault that she's not moving the needle. It wasn't a negative it was fact. People thought you did this thread to knock Becky. Which you do a lot to be fair. Which is the problem with this thread.


SDL 1000 only got 2.5 rating(Raw 25 got over 4) and they had Evolution, Edge, Rey's return match, the McMahons and The Undertaker. SD is viewed as the B show and ratings go through Raw. If Raw sucks nobody's watching SD the next night. There's a reason it's been 3 years of the brand split and SD only beat Raw only a few times in the ratings(even when they had Cena full time).



I still don't know how people know how much merch Becky sells. Charlotte only has 13 items FFS so how is her being added to the WM match help drawing of that match if merch items matter? Alexa, Ronda and Sasha have the most merch items and all 3 of them are on the Raw with the worst ratings every week. Can someone please show Becky's merch numbers? Where are people getting this info? 


@The Inbred Goatman


Good thing ring skills aren't the only thing that people care about. Becky is more entertaining then Charlotte and a better talker and connects with the audience. The Rock and Hogan weren't the best technical or athletic wrestler. You don't need to be a Chris Benoit or a Bret Hart to be a bigger star. Also go check out Becky vs Sasha in NXT. Becky can go when given the chance.


----------



## domotime2

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



MonkasaurusRex said:


> Is this the only argument people have?
> 
> How about this as the focal point of the show she is moving numbers... backward. She got no momentum from punking out Cena people didn't tune in to see her wrestle this past week in a pre-announced match.
> 
> I'm not saying that it is her fault by any means but as I said before if in the prominent position she is in she isn't part of a solution to falling ratings then she is just as much a part of the problem as everything and everyone else.


Well it's the only argument that matters. No one has moved the ratings up in any prominent ways in literally 3 years. The ratings have been absolutely stagnant for hte longest time, going up the slightest of points week to week and going up for mania season and special shows. 

That's it. That's all that matters.

It's the overall presentation of the product that has kept ratings STAGNANT for so long. They could push anyone right now....and as long as the product remains what it is...nothing will change.

Lesnar's been champ, they've pushed Reigns for 3 years, they added Ronda Rousey, Cena shows up sometimes, they let AJ and DB have a feud, they bring back mcMahons... and the ratings dont go anywhere.

So it's ridiculous to single out Becky for any of this. Especially since she's not even the #1 "pushed star" of the company right now


----------



## Hawkke

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Why wasn't the title of this thread naming all 3 members of the match?


----------



## WindPhoenix

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



The Inbred Goatman said:


> Her in ring work absolutely isn't on par, she's clearly the worst of the 4, not bad by any means, but not at the other three's level.
> 
> And I'd argue that Charlotte is better. And Ronda is hit or miss, but when she hits, it's a lot better than Becky. Add the fact that Ronda has been on TV for less than a year, her development as a character and promo is rapid.


Disagree! Ronda is clearly the worst of the 4. Her matches still need rehearsal and some idiot proofing to work. 

Asuka is clearly better than Becky in the ring, but has had more main event reps in longer matches. Becky is too stop/start and most of her tv matches are too short.

There is more investment in Ronda & Charlotte since they are homemade products. WWE gets less out of Asuka and Becky since they were or were going to be stars before WWE.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



ThEmB0neZ said:


> Who's writing Meltzer off? I only seen people saying no one's moving the needle like Ronda,Reigns,Brock,AJ, Bryan, Charlotte Alexa,Sasha ect.. (which is the truth)I listened to Dave and he was just speaking the obvious that attendance is low and ratings are down on BOTH BRANDS. Becky is the hottest star so it's not surprising that he would bring her up. He even said it's not Becky's fault that she's not moving the needle. It wasn't a negative it was fact. People thought you did this thread to knock Becky. Which you do a lot to be fair. Which is the problem with this thread.
> 
> 
> SDL 1000 only got 2.5 rating(Raw 25 got over 4) and they had Evolution, Edge, Rey's return match, the McMahons and The Undertaker. SD is viewed as the B show and ratings go through Raw. If Raw sucks nobody's watching SD the next night. There's a reason it's been 3 years of the brand split and SD only beat Raw only a few times in the ratings(even when they had Cena full time).
> 
> 
> 
> I still don't know how people know how much merch Becky sells. Charlotte only has 13 items FFS so how is her being added to the WM match help drawing of that match if merch items matter? Alexa, Ronda and Sasha have the most merch items and all 3 of them are on the Raw with the worst ratings every week. Can someone please show Becky's merch numbers? Where are people getting this info?
> 
> 
> @The Inbred Goatman
> 
> 
> Good thing ring skills aren't the only thing that people care about. Becky is more entertaining then Charlotte and a better talker and connects with the audience. The Rock and Hogan weren't the best technical or athletic wrestler. You don't need to be a Chris Benoit or a Bret Hart to be a bigger star. Also go check out Becky vs Sasha in NXT. Becky can go when given the chance.



If she's the WWE's hottest act then it would be safe to assume that people wouldn't care what happened on Raw. They would be interested in seeing her and not overly concerned with the quality of Raw. I'm not saying that business doesn't go through Raw because for the most part it does but if an act is truly hot it should at least be able to lessen the effect.

I don't know why people are bagging on Becky's wrestling ability. The woman is a more than capable wrestler. Is she the best among the women probably not but she is in the top few specifically on the main roster.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



WindPhoenix said:


> Disagree! Ronda is clearly the worst of the 4. Her matches still need rehearsal and some idiot proofing to work.
> 
> Asuka is clearly better than Becky in the ring, but has had more main event reps in longer matches. Becky is too stop/start and most of her tv matches are too short.
> 
> There is more investment in Ronda & Charlotte since they are homemade products. WWE gets less out of Asuka and Becky since they were or were going to be stars before WWE.


Ronda and Charlotte had like 5 days to prep for the Survivor Series match and had a better normal match than any of Becky's matches on the main roster.


----------



## WindPhoenix

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



The Inbred Goatman said:


> Ronda and Charlotte had like 5 days to prep for the Survivor Series match and had a better normal match than any of Becky's matches on the main roster.


Why was Ronda's match with Mickie with no prep time so bad then? Most of the girls don't have prep time to limit botches and screw-ups.

As mentioned before, they have got more invested in Ronda's matches succeeding than they do Becky's. 

Charlotte/Ronda wasn't better than Wrestlemania 32's triple threat.


----------



## yeahbaby!

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

First of all I'd be very surprised if any women's match is the ME of WM - that ain't happening like people say.

Brock's probably got it written in his contract he has to be ME or something.


----------



## shadows123

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Well no shit...You continuously bury a wrestler for atleast a couple of years..and then give a super push all of a sudden and expect a "Stone Cold" type number in return?? WWE is in a soup because of their super pushes to stars who fans dont like and have long been tuning out gradually even though wwe continued with their "vocal minority" bull shit... Atleast for a change, here you are with a star who fans actually seem to cheer..And i fully expect wwe to now go ahead with what they typically do.. cheers dont pay the bills damn it :vince$

I think Womens wrestling in general is at a very nascent stage and its gonna take a while for fans to warm up to it....its just a pity they started doing it now during middle/post Roman rather than during Cena`s time when they had more credible male stars, thereby giving women time to establish themselves...


----------



## ThEmB0neZ

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



MonkasaurusRex said:


> If she's the WWE's hottest act then it would be safe to assume that people wouldn't care what happened on Raw. They would be interested in seeing her and not overly concerned with the quality of Raw. I'm not saying that business doesn't go through Raw because for the most part it does but if an act is truly hot it should at least be able to lessen the effect.
> 
> I don't know why people are bagging on Becky's wrestling ability. The woman is a more than capable wrestler. Is she the best among the women probably not but she is in the top few specifically on the main roster.





Being the hottest doesn't always mean ratings. Raw is treated like a A show and SD the B show and WWE doesn't hide it. They buried SDL at Survivor Series this year and had the Undertaker say SD was his home and never appeaedr on SD for 2 years and shows up on Raw every few months. They had Cena become a free agent so he could go to RAW even when he was drafted to SD and it took 3 years before SD main event'd a co branded PPV(A Becky match BTW). The IC title main event'd a B PPV over a WWE title match. SD 1000 had 2.5 rating and Raw 25 had over 4.0 rating. A lot of people only watch Raw because it's where everything happens. Hulk Hogan didn't do his Mean Gene tribute on SD, All the women's announcements happened on Raw(Evolution,Royal Rumble).
No one on SD should be blamed for the ratings because WWE has done a terrible job the last 2 years with upping SD. Jinder Mahal gets shit on because his reign was terrible. Ratings were the last of Jinder's problems(now look at him). Another thing is Becky hasn't even been really pushed BIG until the Cena thing 2 weeks ago. Before the Cena thing Becky sat in a chair for 4 straight weeks watching Asuka matches. They did nothing really with her after the Bloody nose when she was white hot. After Survivor Series she was off SD and came back the next week and did nothing but sit in a chair. The rating for when Becky came back after SvS was higher than the SD after Survivor Series. Instead of having Becky coming back cleared doing something cool they have Becky sit in a chair for 4 straight weeks on SD(not doing anything until Charlotte hit her with the kendo stick and Becky hit Charlotte before TLC but then Asuka beat up Becky with the Stick.) Becky coming back after how big the bloody nose was should've been a bigger moment. Imagine if Stone Cold came back from being hit by a car and Backlash 2000 his first appearance in the arena is him sitting in a chair just watching a HHH and Rock match and that's it. No hitting everyone with chairs and beating up HHH. 

"I don't know why people are bagging on Becky's wrestling ability"


Me neither. Charlotte could be the greatest wrestler ever and still only has 13 merch items(lower then every face on SD(sans Lana). The people that are bringing up Becky's ring work are the same people saying she doesn't draw and only smarks love Becky. Yet smarks are the main draw for in ring work. Casuals could give a shit about a great technical match. Character work is next to or even bigger then in ring skills to the majority. Attitude Era wasn't know for it's technical masterpieces. It was storyline driven and character work and promos.


----------



## SPCDRI

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Nobody's moving numbers. They paid Brock Lesnar probably twenty million dollars so far to do nothing but deliver the worst live attendance nationally and internationally in years and the lowest RAW ratings of all time. AJ Styles was champion for fifteen months. Ratings sucked. They force-pushed Roman Reigns to the moon for two years, hours were struggling to hit 2.5 million at their peak when he was around. Braun Strowman was one of the hottest acts in the company, after multiple instances of being Brock Lesnar's chew-toy, he's a promo botching mess who is eighteen months away or less from being a Late Career Big Show comedy jobber, potentially with a dancing gimmick featuring small children like Nicholas. They're all in with Daniel Bryan on Smackdown again. Great character, great segments, great matches, great big goose egg on viewership. Its hard to say Becky isn't moving numbers, if she wasn't around, maybe ratings are down another 100K, who can say? Dean Ambrose is a germaphobe getting shots in his glutes and ripping off Bane six years after that movie came out and anybody could possibly care. Nothing they've tried for two years has worked. Seth Rollins has been out of the RAW and Smackdown heavyweight scene for so long he reeks of Midcard for Life and isn't much above the people he's frequently lost clean to in the past two years. Drew McIntyre is the Scottish Alberto Del Rio and coming out to silence so eerie I think I'm walking in the wilderness by myself. Dolph Ziggler is this era's Christian and its clear they'll never pull the trigger on him with a sustained heavyweight title run. John Cena's back, but he's laid down on his back for so many people and done clean jobs to so many people, who can possibly care? They wheel out Vince McMahon and Shawn Michaels and The Undertaker out of the retirement home and they look like hammered dogshit and hardly move the needle, and as they keep going to the well with that, they're going to hit diminishing returns fast.


The whole company is bungling so hard its crazy to pin the blame on Becky Lynch.


----------



## ClintDagger

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*

Meltzer is only saying this because BL has delusional fans that think she’s doing something on a level above the rest of the roster. But the truth is it’s all the same. As has been pointed out over and over, nobody draws.

I actually think the bigger issue for WWE is that the women’s division might actually have a tune out factor for the general audience. Yeah the hardest of hardcores dig it, but I don’t think the rest of the fan base sees it as top of the card level. WWE probably hoped by being progressive they would get some mainstream notoriety but it appears no one cares.


----------



## ellthom

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



rbl85 said:


> Cena ?
> 
> The Rock if he come back again ?


The Rock is an if and yea Cena I guess but he isnt going to be around as much these days unfortunately for WWE


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Becky was a bottom of the barrel jobber for 2 years on the B show. She has been pushed for 5 months.

To put it into perspective, Austin was pushed for 18 months before ratings turned around. Raw were hitting record low ratings after "Austin 3:16"

It's baffling that some of you expect someone who was a jobber for years just 6 months ago to turn ratings around immediately. 

Wrestling forum though, eh? "Becky needs a push" Becky gets push "Becky sucks she can't draw" .. FICKLE.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



SayWhatAgain! said:


> Becky was a bottom of the barrel jobber for 2 years on the B show. She has been pushed for 5 months.
> 
> *To put it into perspective, Austin was pushed for 18 months before ratings turned around. Raw were hitting record low ratings after "Austin 3:16"*
> 
> It's baffling that some of you expect someone who was a jobber for years just 6 months ago to turn ratings around immediately.
> 
> Wrestling forum though, eh? "Becky needs a push" Becky gets push "Becky sucks she can't draw" .. FICKLE.


This notion that Austin was "pushed" immediately after KOTR 96 is ridiculous. He didn't go from winning KOTR to the main event and it was roughly four months from then to his first high profile feud. Even then it was more than a year on from KOTR 96 before he was a full on main event level act. They actually let things build with Austin especially with the Bret feud that essentially made Austin. He wasn't expected to be or presented as a top guy right away.


----------



## rbl85

Also while it's good to put the women's in the main event, WWE have to be carefull to not put them to much in the main events because for some fans it's starting to be to much.


----------



## BringBackTV14

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



The Inbred Goatman said:


> Ronda and Charlotte had like 5 days to prep for the Survivor Series match and had a better normal match than any of Becky's matches on the main roster.


And that was four days longer than other women get to work out matches. Only matches that get extra prep treatment on the main roster are the big gimmick matches (Rumble, Elimination Chamber and MITB) and Ronda matches. Other women's matches are gone over the night before and day of if it's a PPV or if it's on Raw or SD they go over it day of and they just go over certain spots in the match and have to call spots in the ring to fill in-between those spots. Whereas Ronda's matches are gone over move for move numerous times.

Like someone said Ronda kind of got exposed of where she really is in terms of a wrestler. How do you go from that match with Charlotte one night to the next night having an absolute dud where you looked absolutely lost with a veteran like Mickie? Simple, match with Charlotte got the special rehearsal treatment and the match with Mickie got the regular treatment 

Ronda can put on a good showing when the match has been rehearsed thoroughly but put her in actual spot that every other woman on the roster has to go through when they aren't working with Ronda and she is green as goose shit.


----------



## Hillhank

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



SPCDRI said:


> Nobody's moving numbers. They paid Brock Lesnar probably twenty million dollars so far to do nothing but deliver the worst live attendance nationally and internationally in years and the lowest RAW ratings of all time. AJ Styles was champion for fifteen months. Ratings sucked. They force-pushed Roman Reigns to the moon for two years, hours were struggling to hit 2.5 million at their peak when he was around. Braun Strowman was one of the hottest acts in the company, after multiple instances of being Brock Lesnar's chew-toy, he's a promo botching mess who is eighteen months away or less from being a Late Career Big Show comedy jobber, potentially with a dancing gimmick featuring small children like Nicholas. They're all in with Daniel Bryan on Smackdown again. Great character, great segments, great matches, great big goose egg on viewership. Its hard to say Becky isn't moving numbers, if she wasn't around, maybe ratings are down another 100K, who can say? Dean Ambrose is a germaphobe getting shots in his glutes and ripping off Bane six years after that movie came out and anybody could possibly care. Nothing they've tried for two years has worked. Seth Rollins has been out of the RAW and Smackdown heavyweight scene for so long he reeks of Midcard for Life and isn't much above the people he's frequently lost clean to in the past two years. Drew McIntyre is the Scottish Alberto Del Rio and coming out to silence so eerie I think I'm walking in the wilderness by myself. Dolph Ziggler is this era's Christian and its clear they'll never pull the trigger on him with a sustained heavyweight title run. John Cena's back, but he's laid down on his back for so many people and done clean jobs to so many people, who can possibly care? They wheel out Vince McMahon and Shawn Michaels and The Undertaker out of the retirement home and they look like hammered dogshit and hardly move the needle, and as they keep going to the well with that, they're going to hit diminishing returns fast.
> 
> 
> The whole company is bungling so hard its crazy to pin the blame on Becky Lynch.



I've read 2 of your posts and agree and liked both of them


But in all honesty I wouldn't be surprised if they were purposely sabotaging the product out of ego and to get Reigns over 

Think about it they've done it before and the old saying history repeats itself


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



MonkasaurusRex said:


> This notion that Austin was "pushed" immediately after KOTR 96 is ridiculous. He didn't go from winning KOTR to the main event and it was roughly four months from then to his first high profile feud. Even then it was more than a year on from KOTR 96 before he was a full on main event level act. They actually let things build with Austin especially with the Bret feud that essentially made Austin. He wasn't expected to be or presented as a top guy right away.


Erm, the feud with Bret started a few months after he won King if the Ring. That was a main event feud. He wrestled him at Survivor Series 96, then he won the Rumble in Jan 97. Throughout all of 1997 he was one of the most pushed and most popular stars in the company and certainly a main event act. Would you say Steve Austin wasn't over in 1997? Of course he was, yet ratings sucked.

It took Austin, who is a far greater talent than Lynch, well over a year to truly effect ratings. So pinning this on Becky, who up until Summerslam had been a jobber on the B show (something Austin never was), is ridiculous.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 1/15/19 Vs 1/8/19 ):
2.143M Vs 2.032M ( + 0.111M / + 5.46% )
0.700D Vs 0.720D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.143M Vs 2.722M ( - 0.579M / 78.73% )
0.700D Vs 0.913D*

*Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 8th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 1/15/19 Vs 1/16/18 ):
2.143M Vs 2.602M ( - 0.459M / - 17.64% )
0.700D Vs 0.780D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.602M Vs 3.250M ( - 0.648M / 80.06% )
0.780D Vs 1.053D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*


----------



## Mordecay

IIconics=Ratings :grin2:

Honestly I expected a bigger increase, but I can see people tuning out after the Naomi/Mandy hotel room stuff and the shitty birthday celebration that was the main event and took the last 30 minutes of the show.


----------



## Ace

Mordecay said:


> IIconics=Ratings :grin2:
> 
> Honestly I expected a bigger increase, but I can see people tuning out after the Naomi/Mandy hotel room stuff and the shitty birthday celebration that was the main event and took the last 30 minutes of the show.


 That's not a good number at all.

With Raw doing 2.7m, I thought they'd do ~2.3-2.4m... This is a 78% retention rate and you would have expected SD to do a lot better since Raw went up and there was no competition for either show.

Personally, I'm enjoying the Mandy-Naomi storyline. It beats the usual crap they do.


----------



## JDP2016

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



SayWhatAgain! said:


> Erm, the feud with Bret started a few months after he won King if the Ring. That was a main event feud. He wrestled him at Survivor Series 96, then he won the Rumble in Jan 97. Throughout all of 1997 he was one of the most pushed and most popular stars in the company and certainly a main event act. Would you say Steve Austin wasn't over in 1997? Of course he was, yet ratings sucked.
> 
> 
> It took Austin, who is a far greater talent than Lynch, well over a year to truly effect ratings. So pinning this on Becky, who up until Summerslam had been a jobber on the B show (something Austin never was), is ridiculous.


You do realize you just agreed with him and Austin was still hovering around the mid-card scene in 1997.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

*Re: WON: Becky Lynch is in the category of someone who people cheer heavy that are already there but she’s not moving numbers*



JDP2016 said:


> You do realize you just agreed with him and Austin was still hovering around the mid-card scene in 1997.


Austin's PPV opponents in 1997 - 

1. Wins Rumble
2. Undertaker, Vader and Bret
3. Bret
4. Bret
5. Undertaker
6. HBK
7. Hart Foundation
8. Owen
9. Rock

5/9 of his PPV matches were main events. More than any other superstar that year. His only PPV opponents who were midcarders were a very fast rising Rock, and Owen Hart.

He most certainly was not a midcarder in 1997. His Rumble win and subsequent title win in 1998 are probably the most predictable in WWE history.


----------



## JDP2016

^^^ Didn't win the WWF title until Wrestlemania 14 which was in 1998.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 1/22/19 Vs 1/15/19 ):
2.142M Vs 2.143M ( - 0.001M / - 0.0047% )
0.690D Vs 0.700D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.142M Vs 2.462M ( - 0.320M / 87.00% )
0.690D Vs 0.857D*

*Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 1/22/19 Vs 1/23/18 ):
2.142M Vs 2.580M ( - 0.438M / - 16.98% )
0.690D Vs 0.800D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.580M Vs 4.530M ( - 1.950M / 56.95% )
0.800D Vs 1.710D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 10th by viewership.*


----------



## llj

Exact same number almost as last week. Nothing really noteworthy to comment on here.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Guess Vince isn't as big of a draw as he thinks he is. He was plastered all over the advertisements.


----------



## Ace

2.58m the same time last year.

Yikes.


----------



## rbl85

Donnie said:


> 2.58m the same time last year.
> 
> Yikes.


Well not that bad in comparison with Raw


----------



## llj

Sub 2m will probably be a regular thing after Wrestlemania if these numbers continue


----------



## Ace

rbl85 said:


> Well not that bad in comparison with Raw


 They've lost 17% of their audience in one year.... if that drop continues, they'll be doing sub 2m for most shows post WM.


----------



## chronoxiong

At least the ratings are the same as last year. Compared to RAW as their ratings are never the same for either year lol.


----------



## Ace

chronoxiong said:


> At least the ratings are the same as last year. Compared to RAW as their ratings are never the same for either year lol.


 They've dropped ~15% the past year..


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

Nobody wants to watch a bunch of geeks.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 1/29/19 Vs 1/22/19 ):
2.137M Vs 2.142M ( - 0.005M / - 0.23% )
0.700D Vs 0.690D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.137M Vs 2.703M ( - 0.566M / 79.06% )
0.700D Vs 0.950D*

*Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 8th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 1/29/19 Vs 1/30/18 ):
2.137M Vs 2.509M ( - 0.372M / - 14.83% )
0.700D Vs 0.760D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.509M Vs 3.395M ( - 0.886M / 73.90% )
0.760D Vs 1.140D

Note: SDL this week last year was 9th by demo & 21st by viewership.*










*Comparing 19 years of post RR SDs (from RR 00');
-Lowest viewership and demo.
-Biggest drop in Y-Y viewership and demo.*


----------



## Ace

lmfao they lost viewers from last week? :lmao


----------



## ShadowCounter

Looks like starting the show with Becky isn't paying off so well.


----------



## rbl85

ShadowCounter said:


> Looks like starting the show with Becky isn't paying off so well.


The fans who were already watching wrestling a year ago love Becky but Becky is not going to bring new fans (nobody can do that).

I mean peoples who know nothing about wrestling when they see Becky for the first time, all they see is a good looking woman with an irish accent but nothing more and it's the same for every wrestler.


----------



## HankHill_85

God dammit, would people just watch this fucking show already and make it either match or surpass Raw on a consistent basis?!?!?

:fuckthis


----------



## Ace

Observer made a good point about this being the SD after Becky's big win. They lost 5k viewers from the previous week.

They even started the show with Becky and apparently set it in a way Becky might come back.

Say what you like about no one being a draw, but this puts some credence to the theory most do not care about the women's division and are being driven away by the greater focus.

The funniest thing in all this is the women's demo and children's demo are being most hit by this push. If children (apparently girls more so than boys) are tuning out, whats going to be left in 5-10 years time?


----------



## Crasp

Becky _was_ on Raw to announce her WM opponent, so nobody needed to tune into SD for that any longer.


----------



## rbl85

Crasp said:


> Becky _was_ on Raw to announce her WM opponent, so nobody needed to tune into SD for that any longer.


Even the numbers of Raw were bad.

I don't think a show with or without Becky make a big change


----------



## Ace

Crasp said:


> Becky _was_ on Raw to announce her WM opponent, so nobody needed to tune into SD for that any longer.


 She opened the show and there was apparently room for her to return later in the show.

Regardless, Raw's RR ratings were a 22 year low.... There are zero excuses for this.

Can only imagine the shit Roman would have gotten for the same numbers.


----------



## Mr.Monkey

Sooo go woke go broke. I want to say it but wwe has been doing that to themselves way longer before and becky is the most over


----------



## rbl85

Mr.Monkey said:


> Sooo go woke go broke. I want to say it but wwe has been doing that to themselves way longer before and becky is the most over


Becky is the most over by FAR but she's not a draw


----------



## Ace

rbl85 said:


> Mr.Monkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sooo go woke go broke. I want to say it but wwe has been doing that to themselves way longer before and becky is the most over
> 
> 
> 
> Becky is the most over by FAR but she's not a draw
Click to expand...

 Ratings suggest pushing the division may actually be killing the ratings :lol


----------



## Crasp

Donnie said:


> She opened the show and there was apparently room for her to return later in the show.
> 
> Regardless, Raw's RR ratings were a 22 year low.... There are zero excuses for this.
> 
> Can only imagine the shit Roman would have gotten for the same numbers.


The downward trend is pretty unstoppable at this point anyway it seems, but my point is more on the micro side of things I guess. 

There's a bunch of contributing factors on a week-by-week, but one of the tiny contributing factors this week could easily have been that some people (not all, not even "most" people) might have skipped Raw assuming Becky would not be on it, discovered subsequently that she _had_ been on it and had _already_ anounced her 'Mania opponent, and thus they may have been less inclined to bother with Smackdown, knowing that little of significance was likely to happen.


----------



## Ace

Crasp said:


> Donnie said:
> 
> 
> 
> She opened the show and there was apparently room for her to return later in the show.
> 
> Regardless, Raw's RR ratings were a 22 year low.... There are zero excuses for this.
> 
> Can only imagine the shit Roman would have gotten for the same numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> The downward trend is pretty unstoppable at this point anyway it seems, but my point is more on the micro side of things I guess.
> 
> There's a bunch of contributing factors on a week-by-week, but one of the tiny contributing factors this week could easily have been that some people (not all, not even "most" people) might have skipped Raw assuming Becky would not be on it, discovered subsequently that she _had_ been on it and had _already_ anounced her 'Mania opponent, and thus they may have been less inclined to bother with Smackdown, knowing that little of significance was likely to happen.
Click to expand...

 Dude you're reaching big time here, the ratings for both shows are awful. You know it's bad when Vince is scrambling trying to get the ratings up with partial nudity and inter-gender teases/segments.

And unlike previous years they're not going up for WM season... That's the damning thing here post RR and on the road to WM they're doing these numbers... Inexcusable.

All hell would have been unleashed by the IWC if this was happening with Roman on top.


----------



## rbl85

Donnie said:


> Ratings suggest pushing the division may actually be killing the ratings :lol


The problem is now they're only pushing the women division while the men division is at the second plan.

But they have to remember that before pushing hard the womens they had better ratings.
I'm not saying they should stop pushing the girls but pushing the womens doesn't mean putting the mens aside.

Also a strong men division will benefit to the women.


----------



## Crasp

Donnie said:


> Dude you're reaching big time here, ratings for both shows are awful.


In what way am I "reaching".

You make it sound as if I'm blaming the entirety of the ratings issues on one factor, which very clearly I was not.


----------



## Ace

rbl85 said:


> Donnie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ratings suggest pushing the division may actually be killing the ratings <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is now they're only pushing the women division while the men division is at the second plan.
> 
> But they have to remember that before pushing hard the womens they had better ratings.
> I'm not saying they should stop pushing the girls but pushing the womens doesn't mean putting the mens aside.
> 
> Also a strong men division will benefit to the women.
Click to expand...

 I'm in the same boat, there's little reason to watch when it's been long established none of them matter.


----------



## Ace

Crasp said:


> Donnie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude you're reaching big time here, ratings for both shows are awful.
> 
> 
> 
> In what way am I "reaching".
> 
> You make it sound as if I'm blaming the entirety of the ratings issues on one factor, which very clearly I was not.
Click to expand...

 The whole elaborate idea of Becky not being there and her impact being reduced because she was on Raw the previous night.. that's reaching both shows ratings were horrible and will have Vince panicking even more.


----------



## Mordecay

Ok, less face it, when was the last time, if ever, that the ratings dropped for RAW or SD after the Rumble? I want to hear the excuses this time, it's one thing to not bring new viewers in a post Rumble show, but actually losing viewers? And we all know who has been the most pushed person during this whole weekend...


----------



## Ace

Mordecay said:


> Ok, less face it, when was the last time, if ever, that the ratings dropped for RAW or SD after the Rumble? I want to hear the excuses this time, it's one thing to not bring new viewers in a post Rumble show, but actually losing viewers? And we all know who has been the most pushed person during this whole weekend...


 That's the thing people are ignoring.

Can you imagine the shit that would have happened if Roman won the Rumble and these were the ratings. Smarks are big time hypocrites.


----------



## llj

Donnie said:


> Ratings suggest pushing the division may actually be killing the ratings :lol


Last year's RAW ratings were up over 2017's from January to April. So they were doing something right back then. I don't know about Smackdown but I remember noticing strong RAW ratings in 2018 compared to 2017 during Wrestlemania period.

But yes, their men's division felt less geeked out this time last year and the women were being pushed, but not to the extent of making the men's division feel second rate. Sometime after Wrestlemania they started focusing more on the women, especially Ronda, and then things began to slide more.


----------



## rbl85

Mordecay said:


> Ok, less face it, when was the last time, if ever, that the ratings dropped for RAW or SD after the Rumble? I want to hear the excuses this time, it's one thing to not bring new viewers in a post Rumble show, but actually losing viewers? And we all know who has been the most pushed person during this whole weekend...


I don't think the problem come from the wrestler who is pushed but more about the overall product.

Lynch is doing a great job but she will never bring new fans or bring back the ones who left.


----------



## Mordecay

rbl85 said:


> I don't think the problem come from the wrestler who is pushed but more about the overall product.
> 
> Lynch is doing a great job but she will never bring new fans or bring back the ones who left.


She is not even keeping the ones who are still watching, that's the thing :lol


----------



## Ace

rbl85 said:


> Mordecay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, less face it, when was the last time, if ever, that the ratings dropped for RAW or SD after the Rumble? I want to hear the excuses this time, it's one thing to not bring new viewers in a post Rumble show, but actually losing viewers? And we all know who has been the most pushed person during this whole weekend...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the problem come from the wrestler who is pushed but more about the overall product.
> 
> Lynch is doing a great job but she will never bring new fans or bring back the ones who left.
Click to expand...

 Ratings suggest she's pushing people out the door. That's worse than not being a draw..


----------



## Ace

llj said:


> Donnie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ratings suggest pushing the division may actually be killing the ratings <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> 
> Last year's RAW ratings were up over 2017's from January to April. So they were doing something right back then. I don't know about Smackdown but I remember noticing strong RAW ratings in 2018 compared to 2017 during Wrestlemania period.
> 
> But yes, their men's division felt less geeked out this time last year and the women were being pushed, but not to the extent of making the men's division feel second rate. Sometime after Wrestlemania they started focusing more on the women, especially Ronda, and then things began to slide more.
Click to expand...

 That's the big point people are missing their ratings are not budging on the road to WM FGS. When has that ever happened?

I've been saying this about the men looking second rate because of the women's push. When the majority of the show consists of males and you downplay like this, look at what happens.


----------



## Ace

llj said:


> Donnie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ratings suggest pushing the division may actually be killing the ratings <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> 
> Last year's RAW ratings were up over 2017's from January to April. So they were doing something right back then. I don't know about Smackdown but I remember noticing strong RAW ratings in 2018 compared to 2017 during Wrestlemania period.
> 
> But yes, their men's division felt less geeked out this time last year and the women were being pushed, but not to the extent of making the men's division feel second rate. Sometime after Wrestlemania they started focusing more on the women, especially Ronda, and then things began to slide more.
Click to expand...

 To think bringing in Ronda and Roman going down has led to this.

WWE are paying for their years of "Fuck you, see you next week" mentality. Loving seeing Vince squirm.

He'd be booking a live sex celebration if he could, things have gotten that dire.


----------



## rbl85

Mordecay said:


> She is not even keeping the ones who are still watching, that's the thing :lol


WWE has lost the this little special thing that was making you want to watch every show and PPV. 
Now some people are like "oh well i will watch the replay later"

Also the wrestler lost this special aura too because 10-15 years ago to see and to interact with those guys and girls you had to go to a show.
Now with internet you know everything about them in 2 click.


----------



## Crasp

What exactly was there to discover on Raw or SD following the Rumble? Everyone already knew who Seth/Becky would face, and no other divisions or feuds are really given any attention. There was no particular fallout or cliffhangers from the Rumble, either.

*edit*

Oh and hey what do ya know, Lance agrees that Becky making her anouncement on Raw meant there was less reason to watch SD:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1090757599920680960


----------



## Mordecay

Crasp said:


> What exactly was there to discover on Raw or SD following the Rumble? Everyone already knew who Seth/Becky would face, and no other divisions or feuds are really given any attention. There was no particular fallout or cliffhangers from the Rumble, either.


That's a lame excuse, since that happens every year and every year there is an increase in ratings after the Rumble. FFS, Nakamura literally said after winning the Rumble that he was challenging AJ and the ratings still increased


----------



## rbl85

Crasp said:


> What exactly was there to discover on Raw or SD following the Rumble? Everyone already knew who Seth/Becky would face, and no other divisions or feuds are really given any attention. There was no particular fallout or cliffhangers from the Rumble, either.
> 
> *edit*
> 
> Oh and hey what do ya know, Lance agrees that Becky making her anouncement on Raw meant there was less reason to watch SD:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1090757599920680960


The last 2 month of Smackdown were as bad as this week for the ratings and if remember correctly Becky didn't go on Raw before those smackdowns (until this Week)


----------



## llj

I'm sorry, but the whole "Becky appearing on RAW" is a bad take for SD's disappointing ratings. Lance is way off here and I'm embarrassed for him.

Many RR winners literally announce who they are choosing right after winning it. The fact is that ratings for both RAW and SD were bad this week for a post RR show. The evidence is audiences right now just aren't caring whatsoever about Seth or Becky winning, or the proposed Road to Wrestlemania.


----------



## Crasp

Mordecay said:


> That's a lame excuse, since that happens every year and every year there is an increase in ratings after the Rumble. FFS, Nakamura literally said after winning the Rumble that he was challenging AJ and the ratings still increased


It's not an entire explanation, obviously. But it's easily a contributing factor. People seem to have this idea that there's one big thing responsible for all of the ratings woes, but it's not _one_ thing, it's _every_ thing. 

I don't think Nak made his _first_ post-Rumble appearance on Raw, either. It was saved for Smackdown. And when he did, he was able to have a confrontation with AJ, because they were both on Smackdown. Nobody expects Ronda to show up on Smackdown to interact with Becky. Especially not after they'd already done it the night before on Raw.

Plus, Asuka had not made up her mind on who to face following her Rumble win last year. And people were interested to see Asuka, a raw star, show up on SD to challenge Charlotte, seeing as Asuka had not made a decision the previous night on Raw.

Once again, these are not _the_ reasons. They are just _some_ contributing factors.


----------



## Empress

I like Becky but her appearing on RAW would have no impact on SD's low rating. In fact, wouldn't more people want to watch SD to see if Ronda showed up to confront her? She is the hottest act in wrestling. It's too bad that's not translating into ratings but there are different ways to watch TV now. As someone else, it's easy to follow on Youtube, streaming, social media and HULU.

I don't think wrestling is going to have another boom until the entire product gets hot rather than just a few exceptions. There was only so much Bret and HBK could be before the rise of Austin, Rock and AE.


----------



## Ace

This is embarrassing, the ratings for Raw were trash too.

Lance Storm's take fpalm


----------



## .christopher.

The excuses :lol

Put it this way: if it were 2001 and Austin had challenged Rock on RAW after winning the Rumble, I'd damn sure want to tune in to SmackDown to see the progression of said story.

Hell, I don't even have to go back. If Bryan had won the Rumble and challenged Brock on RAW, I'd wanna see SmackDown even more, too.

No one cares. The women don't draw regardless. The men don't either.


----------



## Ace

> SmackDown retained 79 percent of Raw's audience from the night before, which is lower than usual. *It's also notable that most of the networks were running reruns. That normally also results in a slight ratings bump, but it didn't this week. *


Even worse fpalm


----------



## Not Lying

Oh you guys are just too easy. Who do you suppose they push/Rumble win to get higher ratings if not the hottest act in the business (Becky and Rollins)? ��
Braun ? Drew? Charlotte? Alexa? 

I can’t wait for WWE to release their quarterly earnings and see some record/high revenues, that’s a whole other debacle..I’ll argue I have this feeling Becky is the new FOTC with how much dictators have come out to discredit her.

I’m sure Lesnar is drawing more fans in right @Donnie ? it’s not like he’s been the main reason the product is dead the past 4 years and because of him, a woman (Becky) is now the hottest act in wrestling since Bryan 2013. How about that AJ huh? weren’t you throwing tantrum when people were suggesting his boring title reign is the reason SD was losing ratings every week? 

I would also love to see quarterly breakdowns to see how many turned off their TV after the first segment..



.christopher. said:


> The excuses :lol
> 
> Put it this way: if it were 2001 and Austin had challenged Rock on RAW after winning the Rumble, I'd damn sure want to tune in to SmackDown to see the progression of said story.
> 
> Hell, I don't even have to go back. If Bryan had won the Rumble and challenged Brock on RAW, I'd wanna see SmackDown even more, too.
> 
> No one cares. The women don't draw regardless. The men don't either.


yeah right. If this were 2001, that’s the only way you could watch it  

now I can watch people reacting to other people reacting to what’s happening on RAW..


----------



## Ace

The Definition of Technician said:


> Oh you guys are just too easy. Who do you suppose they push/Rumble win to get higher ratings if not the hottest act in the business (Becky and Rollins)? ��
> Braun ? Drew? Charlotte? Alexa?
> 
> I can’t wait for WWE to release their quarterly earnings and see some record/high revenues, that’s a whole other debacle..I’ll argue I have this feeling Becky is the new FOTC with how much dictators have come out to discredit her.
> 
> I’m sure Lesnar is drawing more fans in right @Donnie ? it’s not like he’s been the main reason the product is dead the past 4 years and because of him, a woman (Becky) is now the hottest act in wrestling since Bryan 2013. How about that AJ huh? weren’t you throwing tantrum when people were suggesting his boring title reign is the reason SD was losing ratings every week?
> 
> I would also love to see quarterly breakdowns to see how many turned off their TV after the first segment..


 AJs not in the main event and back then the ratings were stable/increasing they only started to fall once Bryan/Becky became top stars post WM. Can't say whether they're the cause or not but it's a bit much to say they were the cause for those falls. As for post WM with the programs set you can very easily point the fingers at them. These are the lowest ratings in 2 decades post RR, SD didn't even get a PPV bump for the second biggest show of the year. That's alarming.

Heck, didn't a triple threat between Becky, Charlotte and Carmella with stakes and promotion in advance do really poorly?


----------



## Not Lying

Donnie said:


> AJs not in the main event and back then the ratings were stable/increasing they only started to fall once Bryan/Becky became top stars post WM. Can't say whether they're the cause or not but it's a bit much to say they were the cause for those falls. As for post WM with the programs set you can very easily point the fingers at them.


Yeah right :lol stop reaching man. People like AJ, Braun, Lesnar, Charlotte, Ronda, Alexa.. you know people who've been booked extremely strong for years now should be established stars with huge fanbases, people like Becky and Bryan and rising.

In any case, on an interesting serious note, does anyone think WWE going to Saudi Arabia might have turned away many viewers? It was around the same time that ratings started to fall. But nah, it's because they put the title on Lesnar many fans decided to call it quit and because they didn't put the title stuff on Balor at the Rumble, more people are upset. Balor should be champion

See, I can make stuff up to.

Edit: Also, I just checked, ratings in June/July were crap and going lower and lower..


----------



## Ace

The Definition of Technician said:


> Donnie said:
> 
> 
> 
> AJs not in the main event and back then the ratings were stable/increasing they only started to fall once Bryan/Becky became top stars post WM. Can't say whether they're the cause or not but it's a bit much to say they were the cause for those falls. As for post WM with the programs set you can very easily point the fingers at them.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah right <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" /> stop reaching man. People like AJ, Braun, Lesnar, Charlotte, Ronda, Alexa.. you know people who've been booked extremely strong for years now should be established stars with huge fanbases, people like Becky and Bryan and rising.
> 
> In any case, on an interesting serious note, does anyone think WWE going to Saudi Arabia might have turned away many viewers? It was around the same time that ratings started to fall. But nah, it's because they put the title on Lesnar many fans decided to call it quit and because they didn't put the title stuff on Balor at the Rumble, more people are upset. Balor should be champion
> 
> See, I can make stuff up to.
> 
> Edit: Also, I just checked, ratings in June/July were crap and going lower and lower.. <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smilie" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

 Say what you like - in the period the ratings should have gone up, they did not. It's gotten so bad they're actually bringing the ratings into the story, the McMahons appearing every week and partial nudity....

Ratings were down, but they fell off a cliff shortly after Roman left.


----------



## Not Lying

Donnie said:


> Say what you like - in the period the ratings should have gone up, they did not. It's gotten so bad they're actually bringing the ratings into the story, the McMahons appearing every week and partial nudity....
> 
> Ratings were down, but they *fell off a cliff shortly after Roman left*.


So it Roman? is it Crown Jewels? is it Lesnar? if it was all hardcore Roman fans that left, did ratings decrease directly the next week?... Plus do u remember how HORRIBLE RAW was after Roman left, with all the Corbin crap? it was mid 2017 SD WOAT TV crap


----------



## Ace

The Definition of Technician said:


> Donnie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Say what you like - in the period the ratings should have gone up, they did not. It's gotten so bad they're actually bringing the ratings into the story, the McMahons appearing every week and partial nudity....
> 
> Ratings were down, but they *fell off a cliff shortly after Roman left*.
> 
> 
> 
> So it Roman? is it Crown Jewels? is it Lesnar? if it was all hardcore Roman fans that left, did ratings decrease directly the next week?... Plus do u remember how HORRIBLE RAW was after Roman left, with all the Corbin crap?
Click to expand...

 Irrespective of what it is - Becky, Ronda etc. are not keeping fans around, the declines have accelerated since Roman left and greater focus has been put on the women. Fans have tuned out in greater numbers than before. They've hit record lows when those were probably another year or so away.

Raw lost 700,000 viewers from last year, SD lost ~300,000.... Throw any excuse or paint it however you like, it's not good for Becky or the women's revolution. Funnily enough, this may be the thing that cripples the company. 

Stories of WWE's demise were greatly exaggerated in the past. Look at the adjective - were (yes, I know it isn't an adjective). It's no longer the case as it continues its downward fall into irrelevance.


----------



## Ace

Dave and Bryan called this week's SD number alarming considering they're going to Fox and this is coming off the #2 PPV of the year.

Meltzer thought both ratings for Raw and SD were really disappointing. Raw after Rumble is usually the second biggest rating of the year. So their second biggest number is 2.7m, last year they were at 3.379m (20% higher). Last year's number was considered bad, this year's is really bad.

SD's number was essentially the same as the week before which shouldn't have been the case. A RR bump was expected, they got none at all. 

A lot of risks will be taken, they're searching for answers now.


----------



## Not Lying

Donnie said:


> Irrespective of what it is - Becky, Ronda etc. are not keeping fans around, the declines have accelerated since Roman left and greater focus has been put on the women. Fans have tuned out in greater numbers than before. They've hit record lows when those were probably another year or so away.
> 
> Raw lost 700,000 viewers from last year, SD lost ~300,000.... Throw any excuse or paint it however you like, it's not good for Becky or the women's revolution. Funnily enough, this may be the thing that cripples the company.
> 
> Stories of WWE's demise were greatly exaggerated in the past. Look at the adjective - were (yes, I know it isn't an adjective). It's no longer the case as it continues its downward fall into irrelevance.


Lol. The thing that's going to cripple the company is having a boring champion that doesn't show up. 

The women are out performing the men and they have the most anticipated match of the bunch. What's WWE supposed to do? cool them off. It's not that greater focus was put on the women just for the sake of it, it was clear as day they became the hottest act in the company. Plus, It's Ronda freaking Rousey leading the division, one of the biggest female athlete names ever. 


They should strike while the iron is hot. They've been doing a great job at this, but it's literally only been 2 months, and 3 weeks of those 2 month were holiday stuff no where nothing happened. 

If WWE continues going with what the fans want to see , who they cheer, for 6+ months (Becky, Rollins, Balor..), and the can get the stink of whatever the fuck they've been doing for 4+ years now (fighting the fans .. WM 32..) and ratings still go down then, maybe then it's time for a change of things. 

I'm sure you can handle 2 more month of the women in the spotlight, they'll continue to be a big part of the program, but when the guy you mark for fucks off into UFC (hopefully), maybe the main event can feel fresh and well get new top feuds people can be interested in.


----------



## shadows123

The Definition of Technician said:


> Lol. The thing that's going to cripple the company is having a boring champion that doesn't show up.
> 
> The women are out performing the men and they have the most anticipated match of the bunch. What's WWE supposed to do? cool them off. It's not that greater focus was put on the women just for the sake of it, it was clear as day they became the hottest act in the company. Plus, It's Ronda freaking Rousey leading the division, one of the biggest female athlete names ever.
> 
> 
> They should strike while the iron is hot. They've been doing a great job at this, but it's literally only been 2 months, and 3 weeks of those 2 month were holiday stuff no where nothing happened.
> 
> If WWE continues going with what the fans want to see , who they cheer, for 6+ months (Becky, Rollins, Balor..), and the can get the stink of whatever the fuck they've been doing for 4+ years now (fighting the fans .. WM 32..) and ratings still go down then, maybe then it's time for a change of things.
> 
> I'm sure you can handle 2 more month of the women in the spotlight, they'll continue to be a big part of the program, but when the guy you mark for fucks off into UFC (hopefully), maybe the main event can feel fresh and well get new top feuds people can be interested in.


You know what ..I dont think 2 months is going to make any difference. There are two aspects to it here. First of all, even though wwe yearrns for its casual fans and wishes they were there, last i heard, average age of people who watch wrestling is quite old (50 years or so was it?).. And what did Vince do? He continued to drive them out with his insane booking decisions (and vocal minority bullshit) over the years with Cena and then Roman while burying the rest of the roster he had at his disposal.. While with Cena it did work, because the man was a phenomenon with T-shirt sales etc and had an insane work ethic, it didnt work quite well with Roman..and all this while Vince continued to drive away the fans who had watched since maybe Hogan or attitude era and so on.. SO now all Vince has left is Roman, the guy he overpushed at the expense of the rest of the roster gone while the rest looking like a pack of jabronis (wins and losses dont matter, my ass).... I mean its not like any of them were Steve Austin or Rock to begin with but booking certainly didnt help and the talent themselves can best be described as "workhorses" and not "must see". 

Atleast now they are pushing women who seem to be more over than men..But this has just started and to expect better ratings from them is going to take years..it certainly wont happen over night or in 1-2 months... Plus having title on Seth and every week is maybe a start but it may not change much.. Maybe a change in creative direction and hopefully a talking to for the talent to show some passion and not be robotic in their promos with some edge to them may be the way ahead? or Vince gets lucky and lands himself the next Steve Austin :lol


----------



## Not Lying

shadows123 said:


> You know what ..I dont think 2 months is going to make any difference. There are two aspects to it here. First of all, even though wwe yearrns for its casual fans and wishes they were there, last i heard, average age of people who watch wrestling is quite old (50 years or so was it?).. And what did Vince do? He continued to drive them out with his insane booking decisions (and vocal minority bullshit) over the years with Cena and then Roman while burying the rest of the roster he had at his disposal.. While with Cena it did work, because the man was a phenomenon with T-shirt sales etc and had an insane work ethic, it didnt work quite well with Roman..and all this while Vince continued to drive away the fans who had watched since maybe Hogan or attitude era and so on.. SO now all Vince has left is Roman, the guy he overpushed at the expense of the rest of the roster gone while the rest looking like a pack of jabronis (wins and losses dont matter, my ass).... I mean its not like any of them were Steve Austin or Rock to begin with but booking certainly didnt help and the talent themselves can best be described as "workhorses" and not "must see".
> 
> Atleast now they are pushing women who seem to be more over than men..But this has just started and to expect better ratings from them is going to take years..it certainly wont happen over night or in 1-2 months...



yeah yeah, I mean that in 2 months we'll be getting more consistent quality time..*if * there's some life in the main event scene ( so New champion, new challengers, new era...not the same old shit). But they should continue with the momentum anyone has instead of cutting them down.

Turning Elias heel again? that was stupid.
If Balor, who's hot as ever after his performance, loses his feud to Lashley..that'll be stupid. 

Just go with the flow organically.. keep it consistent TV booking, don't make stuff that doesn't make sense, and don't push guys that people hate as babyface heroes that overcome the odds.

sheesh, I feel like I'm saying stuff that is so hard to accomplish but it's so easy..do it for 6-8month and gain the fans trust back...


----------



## shadows123

The Definition of Technician said:


> yeah yeah, I mean that in 2 months we'll be getting more consistent quality time..*if * there's some life in the main event scene ( so New champion, new challengers, new era...not the same old shit). But they should continue with the momentum anyone has instead of cutting them down.
> 
> Turning Elias heel again? that was stupid.
> If Balor, who's hot as ever after his performance, loses his feud to Lashley..that'll be stupid.
> 
> Just go with the flow organically.. keep it consistent TV booking, don't make stuff that doesn't make sense, and don't push guys that people hate as babyface heroes that overcome the odds.
> 
> sheesh, I feel like I'm saying stuff that is so hard to accomplish but it's so easy..do it for 6-8month and gain the fans trust back...


You know thats pretty hard to do for Vince with his incompetent backroom staff :lol..

First of all, Balor has gone back to geek booking or looks so.. Plus his laughing is so weird :lol

Secondly, Going with what fans want directly contradicts with their "vocal minority", "heels faces are outdated" and "wins/losses dont matter". Watch them next week go all out to try and get Ronda cheered :lol


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Are we ready to call it and say that this "Women's Revolution" has been a colossal failure, all things considered, or are we pretending to force this mediocre shit in the name of "diversity" that continues to drive off more viewers, women viewers included?

Call it sexist all you want (it isn't and I'll just think you're disingenuous or stupid for it) but sometimes less is more. Trust, I am not asking for the "Diva era" to return or Bra and Panties coming back on television. I don't mind women getting more shine in WWE but that is not what this is. This has simply been a philanthropy/political push to court "certain people" to think that this is progressive. Let's really think here. With exception to Becky and Charlotte being the shining beacons and actually getting Ronda Rousey in WWE, what has this movement ultimately done? What true positives has this really accomplished?

It's not wrong to think that (except if it's a hot storyline) scaling the women's division to one or two segments (matches) would garner more interest for people to want more of it rather than ramming it throughout the show when the history of women's wrestling in WWE is that it has always been a niche market for a certain audience. WWE knows this and yet continue to press forward this movement for "diversity points" rather than doing what is right for business at the end of the day.

Say what you want but besides Becky, you know what was talked about a lot as of recent? The sexualizations of Alexa Bliss and Mandy Rose in those segments. Whether you were a fan or not, it caught your attention and interest. Sex sells, especially in an aesthetics environment like WWE/sports entertainment. Period. Of course, don't do it always but variety is key and should be for everyone. 

It's not always about athletics but simply aesthetics. 

Anyways, Smackdown almost drawing under 2 million viewers is scary but unsurprising. The brand is dead, more so than RAW. FOX absolutely regrets this deal with WWE. They have buyer's remorse and are only going along with this because they need live content but you watch when they expect to get 3.5 million viewers every week and they don't even come close. It's going to be an even bigger shitshow than now if that is even possible.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The Definition of Technician said:


> Lol. The thing that's going to cripple the company is having a boring champion that doesn't show up.
> 
> The women are out performing the men and they have the most anticipated match of the bunch. What's WWE supposed to do? cool them off. It's not that greater focus was put on the women just for the sake of it, it was clear as day they became the hottest act in the company. Plus, It's Ronda freaking Rousey leading the division, one of the biggest female athlete names ever.
> 
> 
> They should strike while the iron is hot. They've been doing a great job at this, but it's literally only been 2 months, and 3 weeks of those 2 month were holiday stuff no where nothing happened.
> 
> If WWE continues going with what the fans want to see , who they cheer, for 6+ months (Becky, Rollins, Balor..), and the can get the stink of whatever the fuck they've been doing for 4+ years now (fighting the fans .. WM 32..) and ratings still go down then, maybe then it's time for a change of things.
> 
> I'm sure you can handle 2 more month of the women in the spotlight, they'll continue to be a big part of the program, but when the guy you mark for fucks off into UFC (hopefully), maybe the main event can feel fresh and well get new top feuds people can be interested in.



No one said cool them off..Stop booking the men like morons. For example, Ambrose could have been the biggest badass heel in the business. He fucking turned the night his friend announced he had CANCER. It gets no more evil than that. Then he comes out in a fart mask getting needles stuck in his ass and now he's quit. Meanwhile Becky gets to make jokes about Edges neck to his face and gets to make John Cena look like an idiot. They are intentionally booking the men like wussies and the women like badasses and it's killing the product. No one gives a shit about women's wrestling. No one gives a shit about Becky Lynch besides the same 2 million marks who watch each week. Love him or hate him, Roman was the only star they had left. Me and my friends were even begging for him to come save the show when it was painfully obvious geek Rollins was about to win the Rumble.


This is easily fixed by putting the title on a legit badass in Joe and giving him a monster title run. I love Bryans character work..But c'mon. AJs run went way too long and made the show boring, AJWINSLOL, put it on Joe and let's get some shit going.


----------



## ClintDagger

WINNING said:


> Are we ready to call it and say that this "Women's Revolution" has been a colossal failure, all things considered, or are we pretending to force this mediocre shit in the name of "diversity" that continues to drive off more viewers, women viewers included?
> 
> Call it sexist all you want (it isn't and I'll just think you're disingenuous or stupid for it) but sometimes less is more. Trust, I am not asking for the "Diva era" to return or Bra and Panties coming back on television. I don't mind women getting more shine in WWE but that is not what this is. This has simply been a philanthropy/political push to court "certain people" to think that this is progressive. Let's really think here. With exception to Becky and Charlotte being the shining beacons and actually getting Ronda Rousey in WWE, what has this movement ultimately done? What true positives has this really accomplished?
> 
> It's not wrong to think that (except if it's a hot storyline) scaling the women's division to one or two segments (matches) would garner more interest for people to want more of it rather than ramming it throughout the show when the history of women's wrestling in WWE is that it has always been a niche market for a certain audience. WWE knows this and yet continue to press forward this movement for "diversity points" rather than doing what is right for business at the end of the day.
> 
> Say what you want but besides Becky, you know what was talked about a lot as of recent? The sexualizations of Alexa Bliss and Mandy Rose in those segments. Whether you were a fan or not, it caught your attention and interest. Sex sells, especially in an aesthetics environment like WWE/sports entertainment. Period. Of course, don't do it always but variety is key and should be for everyone.
> 
> It's not always about athletics but simply aesthetics.
> 
> Anyways, Smackdown almost drawing under 2 million viewers is scary but unsurprising. The brand is dead, more so than RAW. FOX absolutely regrets this deal with WWE. They have buyer's remorse and are only going along with this because they need live content but you watch when they expect to get 3.5 million viewers every week and they don't even come close. It's going to be an even bigger shitshow than now if that is even possible.


It’s not sexist to say the women’s revolution is a failure, it would be sexist to not say it. The truth is the truth and to sugarcoat it just because the subject is women is far from equality.


----------



## Stalingrad9

Not surprising, people really think Becky can actually bring ratings lol. And the whole show's a mess, like you have Mustafa fuckin Ali around the world title FFS. You have always the same tag teams fighting around the title with the Usos, the New Day and the Bar. R-Truth is the US champion (ok that was funny), and the rest is just cringeworthy or sleep-inducing.

But men I don't know how they could mess up the RTWM.

You have Ronda vs Becky, which could be litteral gold. Even though Becky is more of a turn-off for the global audience when she faces Ronda and that's due to booking Ronda like a pussy. If they make Ronda the heel, this could be great.
You have Lesnar vs Rollins, with all the Roman stuff attached to it. And imagine how good the match could be.
You have Daniel Bryan with a gimmick that could get a lot of mainstream appeal, and Bray Wyatt coming back, or Samoa Joe as a face, or Kevin Owens coming back.
Like just with that there's 3 worthy Mania main-events and you add the HHH match, the Cena match, the Taker match and some good stuff for the minor titles and tag titles and that's generally more than enough for a WM

But the problem is the booking, and they need to actually take some risks. Is Fox gonna put enough pressure so that they try some new stuff and bump up the ratings ? I don't know. But please god do not make the women the focus of the show and don't put them in the M-E of Wrestlemania because they botch more in one match than the guys do in a whole fuckin card.


----------



## ClintDagger

RainmakerV2 said:


> No one said cool them off..Stop booking the men like morons. For example, Ambrose could have been the biggest badass heel in the business. He fucking turned the night his friend announced he had CANCER. It gets no more evil than that. Then he comes out in a fart mask getting needles stuck in his ass and now he's quit. Meanwhile Becky gets to make jokes about Edges neck to his face and gets to make John Cena look like an idiot. They are intentionally booking the men like wussies and the women like badasses and it's killing the product. No one gives a shit about women's wrestling. No one gives a shit about Becky Lynch besides the same 2 million marks who watch each week. Love him or hate him, Roman was the only star they had left. Me and my friends were even begging for him to come save the show when it was painfully obvious geek Rollins was about to win the Rumble.
> 
> 
> This is easily fixed by putting the title on a legit badass in Joe and giving him a monster title run. I love Bryans character work..But c'mon. AJs run went way too long and made the show boring, AJWINSLOL, put it on Joe and let's get some shit going.


I don’t even think you can say the entire 2 million that tunes in each week is into Lynch and the women’s division. It’s probably more like the few hundred thousand that watch NXT each week and read Meltzer. The rest of the audience is just tolerating it with a few thousand giving up on the product each week; hence the declining ratings.

Over half the audience is men over 50. Probably close to 2/3 is men over 40 with another big chunk being pre-teen boys. And that group does not care about women’s wrestling or Becky Lynch. What they want is badass, jacked up dudes talking smack & kicking ass and hot women showing a little T&A. WWE is forcing something down their core demos’ throats that they don’t want and it’s slowly killing the golden goose.


----------



## Ace

ClintDagger said:


> I don’t even think you can say the entire 2 million that tunes in each week is into Lynch and the women’s division. It’s probably more like the few hundred thousand that watch NXT each week and read Meltzer. The rest of the audience is just tolerating it with a few thousand giving up on the product each week; hence the declining ratings.
> 
> Over half the audience is men over 50. Probably close to 2/3 is men over 40 with another big chunk being pre-teen boys. And that group does not care about women’s wrestling or Becky Lynch. What they want is badass, jacked up dudes talking smack & kicking ass and hot women showing a little T&A. WWE is forcing something down their core demos’ throats that they don’t want and it’s slowly killing the golden goose.


 To add to this, aren't the highest viewed recent videos on WWE's youtube Mandy Rose or Alexa Bliss videos showing a bit of skin? Hell doesn't the Eva Marie wardrobe malfunction have something like 50m+ views?


----------



## Ace

shadows123 said:


> The Definition of Technician said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. The thing that's going to cripple the company is having a boring champion that doesn't show up.
> 
> The women are out performing the men and they have the most anticipated match of the bunch. What's WWE supposed to do? cool them off. It's not that greater focus was put on the women just for the sake of it, it was clear as day they became the hottest act in the company. Plus, It's Ronda freaking Rousey leading the division, one of the biggest female athlete names ever.
> 
> 
> They should strike while the iron is hot. They've been doing a great job at this, but it's literally only been 2 months, and 3 weeks of those 2 month were holiday stuff no where nothing happened.
> 
> If WWE continues going with what the fans want to see , who they cheer, for 6+ months (Becky, Rollins, Balor..), and the can get the stink of whatever the fuck they've been doing for 4+ years now (fighting the fans .. WM 32..) and ratings still go down then, maybe then it's time for a change of things.
> 
> I'm sure you can handle 2 more month of the women in the spotlight, they'll continue to be a big part of the program, but when the guy you mark for fucks off into UFC (hopefully), maybe the main event can feel fresh and well get new top feuds people can be interested in.
> 
> 
> 
> You know what ..I dont think 2 months is going to make any difference. There are two aspects to it here. First of all, even though wwe yearrns for its casual fans and wishes they were there, last i heard, average age of people who watch wrestling is quite old (50 years or so was it?).. And what did Vince do? He continued to drive them out with his insane booking decisions (and vocal minority bullshit) over the years with Cena and then Roman while burying the rest of the roster he had at his disposal.. While with Cena it did work, because the man was a phenomenon with T-shirt sales etc and had an insane work ethic, it didnt work quite well with Roman..and all this while Vince continued to drive away the fans who had watched since maybe Hogan or attitude era and so on.. SO now all Vince has left is Roman, the guy he overpushed at the expense of the rest of the roster gone while the rest looking like a pack of jabronis (wins and losses dont matter, my ass).... I mean its not like any of them were Steve Austin or Rock to begin with but booking certainly didnt help and the talent themselves can best be described as "workhorses" and not "must see".
> 
> Atleast now they are pushing women who seem to be more over than men..But this has just started and to expect better ratings from them is going to take years..it certainly wont happen over night or in 1-2 months... Plus having title on Seth and every week is maybe a start but it may not change much.. Maybe a change in creative direction and hopefully a talking to for the talent to show some passion and not be robotic in their promos with some edge to them may be the way ahead? or Vince gets lucky and lands himself the next Steve Austin <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

 The ratings are getting MUCH worse with the women on top, why are people not getting this?

People are literally tuning out at a time where the women are the focus of the show and WM. We've seen all time low ratings on the RTWM, numbers which havent been seen in two decades..

The numbers speak for themselves.


----------



## Mr.Monkey

Donnie said:


> The ratings are getting MUCH worse with the women on top, why are people not getting this?
> 
> People are literally tuning out at a time where the women are the focus of the show and WM. We've seen all time low ratings on the RTWM, numbers which havent been seen in two decades..
> 
> The numbers speak for themselves.


You know what they say. Go woke go broke.


----------



## Ace

Mr.Monkey said:


> You know what they say. Go woke go broke.


 This "revolution" has been a ratings disaster and could lead to their downfall?


----------



## The Boy Wonder

WWE needs to stop running the same town four days in a row.


----------



## ClintDagger

Mr.Monkey said:


> You know what they say. Go woke go broke.


If the situation called for the women to main event I wouldn’t have a problem with it. Clearly Rousey was a PPV main event draw for UFC so when it’s the money match, put it on top.

But if WWE was still on a pure PPV format and asking people to shell out $75 for WM there’s zero chance Becky Lynch would be in the main event of WM or in any way featured on Raw or SD as a key match of the show. She’d be solidly in the mid or lower card. They are only doing this because the WWE Network allows them to do it. Which makes it completely hollow as an achievement.


----------



## shadows123

Donnie said:


> The ratings are getting MUCH worse with the women on top, why are people not getting this?
> 
> People are literally tuning out at a time where the women are the focus of the show and WM. We've seen all time low ratings on the RTWM, numbers which havent been seen in two decades..
> 
> The numbers speak for themselves.


You feel the women are the focus because the men suck ....the men in the current roster (including Roman) are all average to below average and booked even worse.... I think they are showcased as well but because they suck mostly, people feel the women are showcased :lol .. I mean they have their usual 2 segments or so in a 3 hour show, its not like they are having over reaching arcs throughout the show.. Plus this increasingly feels like everyone's common complaint on Smackdown "XXX doesnt draw" when Smackdown ratings are down even though historically Smackdown ratings are proportional to raw's (like 70-80%).


----------



## Ace

shadows123 said:


> You feel the women are the focus because the men suck ....the men in the current roster (including Roman) are all average to below average and booked even worse.... I think they are showcased as well but because they suck mostly, people feel the women are showcased :lol .. I mean they have their usual 2 segments or so in a 3 hour show, its not like they are having over reaching arcs throughout the show.. Plus this increasingly feels like everyone's common complaint on Smackdown "XXX doesnt draw" when Smackdown ratings are down even though historically Smackdown ratings are proportional to raw's (like 70-80%).


 Except they didn't really start declining till last year IIRC. They weren't down for the RTWM like they are this year.


----------



## shadows123

Donnie said:


> Except they didn't really start declining till last year IIRC. They weren't down for the RTWM like they are this year.


Every year they have been down by a good margin compared to the previous year.. This year more so than before but ever since Cena has gone, this decline has been long coming due to the lack of draws in the company other than the brand itself... Maybe they could've done something about it some time back but then they were focussed more on trolling and fighting the fans with their relentless push of guys who fans didn't like or want...


----------



## Ace

shadows123 said:


> Every year they have been down by a good margin compared to the previous year.. This year more so than before but ever since Cena has gone, this decline has been long coming due to the lack of draws in the company other than the brand itself... Maybe they could've done something about it some time back but then they were focussed more on trolling and fighting the fans with their relentless push of guys who fans didn't like or want...


 Those were Raw's ratings, SD was growing year on year the first couple of years post split hence Fox gave them such a big deal in the first place.


----------



## Chrome

Donnie said:


> Those were Raw's ratings, SD was growing year on year the first couple of years post split hence Fox gave them such a big deal in the first place.


Nah, Fox gave 'em a big deal because they're live content, and networks are starving for that nowadays.


----------



## Deathiscoming

I blame two things(and the latter is caused by the former, to an extent):-

Women's wrestling oversaturating the product for YEARS, only worsened in 2018, then worsened more after Roman's leukemia announcement, as well as the rise of Becky(yeah she's the next Austin and she deserves to mainevent wrestlemania!) and women on SD being given 15-min talk segments and matches week after week, and mainevents on PPVs, the same PPVs where Daniel Bryan or AJ Styles are WWE champ, and where Joe, Orton, Nak, Rusev, Jeff Hardy are either completely absent/not booked, or booked on the pre-show. Fucking explain to me how it makes sense to have NAKAMURA on your roster, being the US champ etc. and all everyone talks about on the internet is becky fucking lynch. 

2)Poor, absolutely trash writing(on both Raw and Smackdown), overlooking of much of the men's roster especially midcard and tag teams, inconsistently booked mainevents on TV and PPV(one week the champ closes the show, then 2-3 weeks women do, WTF is going on?), and men made to look like chumps, like Dean on Raw. If the writers can't even come up with a solid show for MEN's midcard, how are they going to be able to book women at the forefront and manage to get interesting storylines for Rusev, Orton, Joe and Nak, or Dean on Raw? They can't. If MEN's tag titles don't even matter(Raw's division is an afterthought, SD's division has been the same Usos and New Day for 2 yrs now), how the fuck does it make sense to bring up women's tag titles(the whole notion is frankly laughable) ? Who in their right minds would give a shit about Iconics or Sasha and Bailey over the Revival, Heavy Machinery, Cesaro and Sheamus, Harper and Rowan, and Sanity?

Let's not forget that the women's roster is now like 35 women combined, on both shows and every PPV main show is 35-40% women(let that sink in) and soon it will be 50%. And just recently they announced the women's tag titles(LOL) and begun to have women embarrass men either verbally or physically or both. Most self-respecting men would watch TNA, ROH, NJPW or AEW over the WWE. (The reason why WWE is considering going "sexy" with few of their women again)

I have nothing against the women's division being a niche etc. regardless of how they book them(tits or matches) as long as I get MEN of all sizes, shapes and wrestling styles perform both in the ring and on the microphone and mainevent every TV taping and PPV like they always have and should. 

Despite having nothing but respect and admiration for Reigns, Joe, Orton, Jeff, Nak, Bryan and AJ, among others, I wish the ratings crumble even further(and they will) and AEW gets a TV deal and begins airing a weekly program and has Dean and others be the main focus of the show(hopefully they won't go for a 'women's revolution' type crap and shove them down our throats) and tell interesting stories.

Never thought pro wrestling in 2018 and 2019 would come to THIS, especially the WM season.


----------



## shadows123

Donnie said:


> Those were Raw's ratings, SD was growing year on year the first couple of years post split hence Fox gave them such a big deal in the first place.


Because Smackdown was shit and it was recorded that people just didnt want to tune in after reading spoilers.. You cant just cherry pick..Wrestling has been struggling ever since the Austin heel turn and the rise of Triple H and his reign of terror with Steph as head of creative... But what really accelerated is the incessant Cena push and the recent Roman push which drove a lot of fans away and their failure to uncover the next Steve Austin/Rock meant we have this so called Triple H`s "workhorse vision" where you bore people to death by being a workhorse :lol. The damage is all there to see now a days and it doesnt matter if its Seth being pushed or Becky..they are still going to be having the same ratings because of the way they have gone about fighting the hardcore fans calling them a vocal minority and letting them tune out even though they were the ones who stuck by them for long...

And Smackdown Fox was like the other poster said more about live content through the year than Ratings.


----------



## Ace

Chrome said:


> Nah, Fox gave 'em a big deal because they're live content, and networks are starving for that nowadays.


 That's true, but they sold them with the yearly growth as well. Fox is not going to go out and buy content when the ratings are declining, they were shown year on year growth (something which Meltzer reported along with Ronda, who they thought was a big draw - she isn't". The last 6-8 months they've lost 13-15% year on year.


----------



## SPCDRI

Yeah, staying right where you are is a loser's proposition in business. If a show is doing X this year, next year FOX will want X+Y. They don't want X-Y. Nobody wants that.


----------



## Dave Santos

Early numbers seem to be that the state of the union ratings are up by 10% from last year. Last year the speech got 45.6 million viewers. This week smackdown was up against the speech. That will impact yesterdays second hour ratings.

https://deadline.com/2019/02/state-...le-broadcast-donald-trump-address-1202550542/


----------



## llj

Imagine if it got sub 2m again this week. That would be a first for February, right?


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 2/5/19 Vs 1/29/19 ):
1.841M Vs 2.137M ( - 0.296M / - 13.85% )
0.640D Vs 0.700D

SDL Vs RAW:
1.841M Vs 2.510M ( - 0.669M / 73.35% )
0.640D Vs 0.833D*

*Note: SDL is 10th by demo & 19th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 2/5/19 Vs 2/6/18 ):
1.841M Vs 2.505M ( - 0.664M / - 26.51% )
0.640D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.505M Vs 3.055M ( - 0.550M / 82.00% )
0.750D Vs 1.070D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 10th by viewership.*










*-Lowest viewership and 2nd lowest demo since The Draft.
-2nd lowest viewership and 3rd lowest demo of all time.*


----------



## Y.2.J

mega

Watch them get scared about Becky now.
They are really overexposing this though.


----------



## Empress

Is 1.841M the first or second hour? SOTU didn't start until 9 or a bit later. It's bad but at least there's a reason for it to be that bad.


----------



## llj

Empress said:


> Is 1.841M the first or second hour? SOTU didn't start until 9 or a bit later. It's bad but at least there's a reason for it to be that bad.


Hour to hour Smackdown numbers never get shown. You just get the overall.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

Empress said:


> Is 1.841M the first or second hour? SOTU didn't start until 9 or a bit later. It's bad but at least there's a reason for it to be that bad.


As per the chart, it states the duration is 120 mins. So both hours are collated.


----------



## JDP2016

Here come the SOTU excuses. :ciampa


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Empress said:


> Is 1.841M the first or second hour? SOTU didn't start until 9 or a bit later. It's bad but at least there's a reason for it to be that bad.



It's the average for both. The SOTU may have done 50 million viewers;we'll know when the final numbers are released. One thing to remember is that the first hour, while not up against the actual speech itself, was opposite all the various pre-shows which tend to do better as people tune in to their favorite channel for pre speech analysis. For example, Tucker Carlson went from high 2M+ to 4.8M for the 8:00pm hour.

The rating isn't good but it is artificially lower due to the massive audience against it. I doubt WWE freaks out too much as RAW would have tanked much worse if it faced that kind of competition. The "good news" for WWE is that there should be a ratings uptick next week. Right now, the Road to Mania is off to an inauspicious start for both shows.


----------



## rbl85

When will they understand that starting with the womens is a terrible idea ?


----------



## Ace

How long was the SOTU?

Still hilarious.


----------



## Dave Santos

Donnie said:


> How long was the SOTU?
> 
> Still hilarious.


80 minutes I think.


----------



## rbl85

Donnie said:


> How long was the SOTU?
> 
> Still hilarious.


I think 1hour20min


----------



## Empress

JDP2016 said:


> Here come the SOTU excuses. :ciampa


SD ratings are terrible but I can afford this week’s low viewership to factors outside the usual.


----------



## Ace

I wonder how low SD ratings are going to go during the NBA Playoffs.

Could they realistically do sub 2m every week against a playoff game?


----------



## rbl85

The ratings are low because Asuka didn't appear…..XD


----------



## llj

Episodes opening with women's segments have coincidentally often correlated with bad ratings for SD. But maybe internal numbers tell a different story.


----------



## Empress

Donnie said:


> I wonder how low SD ratings are going to go during the NBA Playoffs.
> 
> Could they realistically do sub 2m every week against a playoff game?


The new head of FOX had some event today. He said SD on Friday would be “short term”. Seems like he’s going to wait and see if they do well in that’s spot. 


https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2...ckdown-is-on-friday-nights-short-term-650664/


----------



## Dave Santos

From a previous discussion from the ratings thread about the Simpsons. Fox has announced that it will be renewed for season 31 and 32 a few hours ago. This year the Simpsons has actually increased their viewership by 30% compared to last year. How this ties in to wrestling. Even in a downswing the wwe has the potential to rebound. It's doable to boost a year or maybe a few. Both shows are hosted on Fox.


----------



## Ace

Empress said:


> The new head of FOX had some event today. He said SD on Friday would be “short term”. Seems like he’s going to wait and see if they do well in that’s spot.
> 
> 
> https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2...ckdown-is-on-friday-nights-short-term-650664/


 LMFAO Fox already looking for an out :lmao


----------



## Ace

If I'm reading this right, SD was up against the SOU for 53 mins of the second hr. Every other show based on the SOU was on after SD.

WTF is Curse of Oakland Island and how did it draw 3m? :lmao

SD getting whipped by some random show on the history channel.

SD going toe to toe with Anderson Cooper, does his show do well in the States? :lol


----------



## llj

Curse of Oak Island has been "smacking" around Smackdown for a few weeks now


----------



## Ace

YIKES :lmao



> SD Live - January 30th, 2018 (vs. State of the Union address);
> 
> 2.509 million viewers
> 
> SD Live - February 6th, 2018;
> 
> 2.505 million viewers
> 
> SD Live - February 5th, 2019 (vs. State of the Union address);
> 
> 1.841 million viewers


Were these on the same time? If so, the WWE has no excuses and is in a lot of trouble. Most likely destined for cancellation/FS1.


----------



## V-Trigger

Becky doesn't draw. Period.


----------



## Ace

V-Trigger said:


> Becky doesn't draw. Period.


 - response to your initial post of 'Yikes'

This is what happens when you bury everyone and make your world championship an afterthought.

No one wants to watch a bunch of nobodies fight for a prop that means nothing.


----------



## llj

V-Trigger said:


> Becky doesn't draw. Period.


It's too bad she doesn't, really. Art is so underappreciated.


----------



## Ace

So if those past numbers are true, the SOU excuse goes right out the window.

With ratings falling so low, you'd think they'd change things up and give people a reason to watch.

Why not do a world title defence/change on TV? Or do a stip match.

Give people a reason to watch.


----------



## Empress

Donnie said:


> YIKES :lmao
> 
> 
> 
> Were these on the same time? If so, the WWE has no excuses and is in a lot of trouble. Most likely destined for cancellation/FS1.


So they can’t even use SOTU as a reason why they went below 2 million.


----------



## Chrome

Fox somewhere like:


----------



## Ace

Empress said:


> So they can’t even use SOTU as a reason why they went below 2 million.


 It's the second lowest number in SD history.

I read this was lower than the SD that went up against a Trump-Hillary debate... those drew massive ratings... and this was lower while on the RTWM.... Man, they are so fucked beyond belief.



Chrome said:


> Fox somewhere like:


 Empress posted an article earlier where they're already talking about SD not being on Fridays lmao... they're probably coming up with an exit strategy. FS1 or cancellation.


----------



## Empress

Donnie said:


> It's the second lowest number in SD history.
> 
> This was lower than the SD that went up against a Trump-Hillary debate... those drew massive ratings... and this was lower while on the RTWM.... Man, they are so fucked beyond belief.
> 
> Empress posted an article earlier where they're already talking about SD not being on Fridays lmao... they're probably coming up with an exit strategy. FS1 or cancellation.


Do you think ending the brand split would help? It’s drisgratkng watching world champions be afterthoughts like you said. Winning the Rumble means nothing now since RAW will headline. Although, I think Seth/ Brock will be put in the death spot if Becky/Ronda are headlining. 

There are too many belts and it should be unified; fat needs to be trimmed from these bloated PPVs.


----------



## Ace

Empress said:


> Do you think ending the brand split would help? It’s drisgratkng watching world champions be afterthoughts like you said. Winning the Rumble means nothing now since RAW will headline. Although, I think Seth/ Brock will be put in the death spot if Becky/Ronda are headlining.
> 
> There are too many belts and it should be unified; fat needs to be trimmed from these bloated PPVs.


 One world championship.

The SD world championships are basically midcard titles and aren't given the respect they deserve. It's meaningless to win it.

They need to cut some wrestlers too. Way too many guys in the company doing nothing who could be better off elsewhere.


----------



## Chrome

Empress said:


> Do you think ending the brand split would help? It’s drisgratkng watching world champions be afterthoughts like you said. Winning the Rumble means nothing now since RAW will headline. Although, I think Seth/ Brock will be put in the death spot if Becky/Ronda are headlining.
> 
> There are too many belts and it should be unified; fat needs to be trimmed from these bloated PPVs.


Doesn't Fox want to keep the brand extension intact though? Could've sworn I read that sometime last year.


----------



## rbl85

Empress said:


> Do you think ending the brand split would help? It’s drisgratkng watching world champions be afterthoughts like you said. Winning the Rumble means nothing now since RAW will headline. Although, I think Seth/ Brock will be put in the death spot if Becky/Ronda are headlining.
> 
> There are too many belts and it should be unified; fat needs to be trimmed from these bloated PPVs.


With the FOX deal it's impossible to end the brand split.


----------



## llj

Donnie said:


> One world championship.
> 
> The SD world championships are basically midcard titles and aren't given the respect they deserve. It's meaningless to win it.
> 
> They need to cut some wrestlers too. Way too many guys in the company doing nothing who could be better off elsewhere.


Problem with limiting titles is even more people become afterthoughts. Instead of AJ Styles, 2x WWE champion, we might be looking at AJ Styles, 0x any world champion right now. Maybe 3x Intercontinental and 2x US at best.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

YIKES, that rating is disgusting.


----------



## Chrome

The problem isn't having 2 world titles, the problem is treating Smackdown's world title like the glorified European championship. Hell, when was the last time the WWE champion main-evented a co-branded ppv? Shit, they had a perfect opportunity at last years ER ppv with no Universal title match on it, but instead put the IC title match on last basically telling the audience Raw's #2 title > SDL's #1 title.


----------



## Empress

Chrome said:


> The problem isn't having 2 world titles, the problem is treating Smackdown's world title like the glorified European championship. Hell, when was the last time the WWE champion main-evented a co-branded ppv? Shit, they had a perfect opportunity at last years ER ppv with no Universal title match on it, but instead put the IC title match on last basically telling the audience Raw's #2 title > SDL's #1 title.


You guys are right. FOX has made it impossible for the brand split to end which means the belts will continue to be devalued. 

There was no reason why Reigns should've headlined over Styles last year. I think he got the main events routinely. It may have been Braun a few times. Regardless, it just made SD titles look less than.


----------



## Mordecay

I thought people said that Becky was going to save wrestling, not the opposite... :hmmm



Chrome said:


> The problem isn't having 2 world titles, the problem is treating Smackdown's world title like the glorified European championship. Hell, *when was the last time the WWE champion main-evented a co-branded ppv?* Shit, they had a perfect opportunity at last years ER ppv with no Universal title match on it, but instead put the IC title match on last basically telling the audience Raw's #2 title > SDL's #1 title.


Survivor Series 2018: Lesnar vs Bryan

On his own? Not sure if Battleground 2016 counts (the Shield Triple Threat) the brand split had just began and there still weren't brand exclusive titles.


----------



## llj

For years the WWE has always prioritized big stars over titles. Like, back when Macho Man was the world champ, I'm pretty sure the main events for most WWE events was still Hogan v Somebody instead of Macho vs Somebody. With Bret Hart, same thing. Champions being lower billed than established megastars has been a thing since the 80s.

The problem with the current WWE runs much deeper than their handling of their titles. The writing, the top wrestlers not being draws and more like stabilizers at best, the inability to capitalize on wrestlers who appeared to be draws, the devaluing of wrestlers who have proven to be draws in the past, oversaturation of WWE content, overexposure of performers, etc,.


----------



## Dave Santos

Tomorrow is another big day. The quarterly financials are coming. They should be good because of the Crown Jewel. Curious what else we will see on it.


----------



## Y.2.J

I would LOVE to know what Vince, Steph and HHH are thinking.
Are they scared? Are they confident? Do they think this is a sinking ship? Can they turn it around? Does it need to be turned around?
Would love to hear from them or any of the board members to be honest. We as the fans don't always get the full picture.


----------



## Ace

I don't really understand how WWE managed to become the most profitable they've ever been while being this irrelevant.

In the AE they were part of mainstream culture but not as profitable as they are today. How big would their TV deal be if they were actually doing good numbers?

Fox must be kicking themselves for getting SD.


----------



## BrokenFreakinNeck

People are overreacting. WWE is getting a billion dollars for SD so they must be doing something right.


----------



## Mr.Monkey

This women's revolution thing sucks?Is Bryan killing the ratings. Don't know as there's no breakdown. Just making punches in the dark.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Sunday Night Heat in the AE drew higher ratings than this. Becky 'the ratings killer' Lynch.


----------



## Ace

Mr.Monkey said:


> This women's revolution thing sucks?Is Bryan killing the ratings. Don't know as there's no breakdown. Just making punches in the dark.


 People aren't sticking around for either of them that's for sure.

Tbf to Bryan he isn't treated well as a world champion. Never main events PPVs, rarely opens and is basically a midcard champion on his own brand.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

:heston:westbrook4:duck:mj4

"See you next week!"

"You'll subscribe to them tomorrow!"

"Muh record revenue!" (Tomorrow's report doesn't change a fucking thing)

"Just enjoy it!"

"Stop hating, sheesh!"

"Wait till we get closer to Mania!"

I wish the excuses weren't as predictable as these ratings but I do enjoy the salt it displays :lol


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

Becky isn’t a draw and neither is this garbage women’s revolution


----------



## shadows123

70-80% seems par...this is what they have been doing all the time since Smackdown went live..They dont have any viewers as such..Raw goes up, so does Smackdown...Not sure why anyone was expecting otherwise after yesterday`s shitty raw numbers!!


----------



## Mear

llj said:


> Problem with limiting titles is even more people become afterthoughts. Instead of AJ Styles, 2x WWE champion, we might be looking at AJ Styles, 0x any world champion right now. Maybe 3x Intercontinental and 2x US at best.


But the more you add a title, the more it becomes meaningless. Would The New Day be as over if they were just Smackdown Tag Champs instead of THE Tag Champs ? What about Seth Rollins if he never got to main-event as the champion ? Sure, it's harder for someone to be champion but at least, it means something. It's undeniable that they are the very best

Plus, brand split brings in all the waste as we see with the PPVs being longer and longer and Raw being filled with useless matches. The roster is way too big for its own good now, half of the roster could easily be done with


----------



## Ace

Mear said:


> But the more you add a title, the more it becomes meaningless. Would The New Day be as over if they were just Smackdown Tag Champs instead of THE Tag Champs ? What about Seth Rollins if he never got to main-event as the champion ? Sure, it's harder for someone to be champion but at least, it means something. It's undeniable that they are the very best
> 
> Plus, brand split brings in all the waste as we see with the PPVs being longer and longer and Raw being filled with useless matches. The roster is way too big for its own good now, half of the roster could easily be done with


 The mens roster is so huge but I don't think any of them is truly over. You've got to be really bad to have so many talented wrestlers at your disposal who were popular at some stage and kill all of them.

Seth was on a roll in the summer and so was Braun numerous times in 2017 and 2018, they screwed them both up and they've cooled off immensely since then. They missed the chance to cash in with them and put them over Lesnar which would have elevated them to the next level.

They 100% should have gone in with one of them when they were super hot. But they fucked it up for Roman and are going to go with Seth when he's nowhere as hot as he was.

Popularity never lasts, creative and booking eventually catches up to. Braun and Seth have been their latest victims.


----------



## Cooper09

Becky is really pulling in those viewers :heston


----------



## llj

Mear said:


> But the more you add a title, the more it becomes meaningless. Would The New Day be as over if they were just Smackdown Tag Champs instead of THE Tag Champs ? What about Seth Rollins if he never got to main-event as the champion ? Sure, it's harder for someone to be champion but at least, it means something. It's undeniable that they are the very best
> 
> Plus, brand split brings in all the waste as we see with the PPVs being longer and longer and Raw being filled with useless matches. The roster is way too big for its own good now, half of the roster could easily be done with


A promotion definitely shouldn't have this many people. In all honesty they have a main roster that could fit 4 brands but instead of keeping them separately important, they emphasize ONE brand over everything else.


----------



## Erik.

:lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## DammitChrist

Mordecay said:


> I thought people said that Becky was going to save wrestling, not the opposite... :hmmm


Oh, I see you're still one those people taking the ratings out on an individual talent :bored

Good to see that nothing has changed unk2


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

DammitC said:


> Oh, I see you're still one those people taking the ratings out on an individual talent :bored
> 
> Good to see that nothing has changed unk2


Let them continue to do so. If Becky is solely responsible for the ratings then it's not unreasonable to posit that she is the main reason for their record revenues. You're welcome, WWE. :becky2 :beckylol


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

You people realise Becky wasn't advertised for, or expected to be on SmackDown, right?

I mean, I get it doesn't fit the agenda, but still, you're reaching a bit here.


----------



## rbl85

DammitC said:


> Oh, I see you're still one those people taking the ratings out on an individual talent :bored
> 
> Good to see that nothing has changed unk2


He just trolling some (not all) Beckys fans who are sure that Becky is the savior that WWE need.

But i agree with you, it's not Becky's fault.


----------



## Mordecay

SayWhatAgain! said:


> You people realise Becky wasn't advertised for, or expected to be on SmackDown, right?
> 
> I mean, I get it doesn't fit the agenda, but still, you're reaching a bit here.


She was advertised heavily for RAW and they still did shit ratings, but thanks for playing


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Mordecay said:


> She was advertised heavily for RAW and they still did shit ratings, but thanks for playing


Did I say she was a draw? I never disputed that she isn't a ratings draw, she's not. I just said blaming her for the ratings of a show she wasn't advertised for was reaching, which it is.

_But thanks for playing_


----------



## Mordecay

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Did I say she was a draw? I never disputed that she isn't a ratings draw, she's not. I just said blaming her for the ratings of a show she wasn't advertised for was reaching, which it is.
> 
> _But thanks for playing_


Fine, I will give her a pass for this week's SD...

But this means I can blame her for all the other shit ratings the show has been doing when she was advertised heavily? You know, like people did with Roman?


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Mordecay said:


> Fine, I will give her a pass for this week's SD...
> 
> But this means I can blame her for all the other shit ratings the show has been doing when she was advertised heavily? You know, like people did with Roman?


I won't dispute it if you do.

I mean, bad ratings are never just one persons fault, but like you said, people did it with Roman, so go right ahead. Fair is fair.


----------



## Empress

Mear said:


> But the more you add a title, the more it becomes meaningless. Would The New Day be as over if they were just Smackdown Tag Champs instead of THE Tag Champs ? What about Seth Rollins if he never got to main-event as the champion ? Sure, it's harder for someone to be champion but at least, it means something. It's undeniable that they are the very best
> 
> Plus, brand split brings in all the waste as we see with the PPVs being longer and longer and Raw being filled with useless matches. The roster is way too big for its own good now, half of the roster could easily be done with


:clap

Piper, Perfect, DiBiase, Rick Rude and Jake the Snake Roberts are just some of the talents who never touched the top belt but are regarded as legends. Chances are, most of the guys on the roster will be multi world champions by the time they retire. It's no longer exclusive. 

I get the reasoning behind two of everything (roster, belts) but WWE existed and was even in better shape when there was one of each.


----------



## Not Lying

Mordecay said:


> She was advertised heavily for RAW and they still did shit ratings, but thanks for playing


bruh keep reaching there, you blamed Becky for RAW's H2 and H3 ratings when she wasn't there and everyone knew she wouldn't be :lmao 

you lose all credibility.

WWE seems to have a had a great quarterly earnings now, and it's all thanks Becky fucking Lynch. Right? 

It has to be, you can't have it both ways. Becky fans get the most viewed shows on the network, the top merch sales, the youtube views, selling out signings IN MINUTES, the big company revenues and profit, and of course the crowd the reactions.. and i'll take some of that ratings as well, I mean 2M+ are still tunning just to see THE MAN.


----------



## rbl85

The Definition of Technician said:


> bruh keep reaching there, you blamed Becky for RAW's H2 and H3 ratings when she wasn't there and everyone knew she wouldn't be :lmao


Although i thinks Becky's doing a great job and the bad ratings are of course not because of her.
But your "excuse" is like the ratings, bad because the H1 of this week was weaker than the H1 of last week.
Also it's well known that even if you put Dana Brooke at the first segment and the H1 will be higher than the H2 and H3.


----------



## Mordecay

The Definition of Technician said:


> bruh keep reaching there, you blamed Becky for RAW's H2 and H3 ratings when she wasn't there and everyone knew she wouldn't be :lmao
> 
> you lose all credibility.
> 
> WWE seems to have a had a great quarterly earnings now, and it's all thanks Becky fucking Lynch. Right?
> 
> It has to be, you can't have it both ways. Becky fans get the most viewed shows on the network, the top merch sales, the youtube views, selling out signings IN MINUTES, the big company revenues and profit, and of course the crowd the reactions.. and i'll take some of that ratings as well, I mean 2M+ are still tunning just to see THE MAN.


Tell me in which post did I blame Becky for hours 2 and 3 of RAW? The fact of the matter was that she was advertised for RAW and she was on the first segment and that segment did shit ratings, then it had their usual drops for hours 2 and 3, the ratings didn't felt off a cliff like you would expect if she was so over and people only tuned in to see her.

And you can't actually give credit to Becky for the record earnings, since they have known FOR YEARS that they were going to have record earnings, that money was fixed income WWE was going to get no matter if Roman, Seth, Becky or freaking Mojo was the FOTC. 

Also, about merch sales, those also have been decreasing, since Becky doesn't move merch like Cena, Reigns or AJ.

And lol'd at thinking that the network shows that involve her are the highest rated. The highest rated network shows every week are, no matter what: NXT, E&C and whichever was the latest PPV that has aired. Throw a Takeover and a Mania and that is usually your top 5.

Finally, actually being proud of making 2 million viewers with her on top when they were doing 2.5 when she wasn't , the delusion is real :heston

PS: Actually, it's not even 2 million anymore, is 1.8 :lmao


----------



## llj

When you look at the quarter by quarter earnings, it's clear most of the profits come from the Saudi deal. Q2 and Q4 had gigantic bumps because of GRR and Crown Jewel.

Nobody is really "drawing" in this company. It's Vince's business deals that are the real moneymakers right now.


----------



## Not Lying

rbl85 said:


> Although i thinks Becky's doing a great job and the bad ratings are of course not because of her.
> But your "excuse" is like the ratings, bad because the H1 of this week was weaker than the H1 of last week.
> Also it's well known that even if you put Dana Brooke at the first segment and the H1 will be higher than the H2 and H3.


I mean.. duh. 



Mordecay said:


> Tell me in which post did I blame Becky for hours 2 and 3 of RAW? The fact of the matter was that she was advertised for RAW and she was on the first segment and that segment did shit ratings, then it had their usual drops for hours 2 and 3, the ratings didn't felt off a cliff like you would expect if she was so over and people only tuned in to see her.
> 
> And you can't actually give credit to Becky for the record earnings, since they have known FOR YEARS that they were going to have record earnings, that money was fixed income WWE was going to get no matter if Roman, Seth, Becky or freaking Mojo was the FOTC.
> 
> *Also, about merch sales, those also have been decreasing, since Becky doesn't move merch like Cena, Reigns or AJ.*
> 
> And lol'd at thinking that the network shows that involve her are the highest rated. The highest rated network shows every week are, no matter what: NXT, E&C and whichever was the latest PPV that has aired. Throw a Takeover and a Mania and that is usually your top 5.
> 
> Finally, actually being proud of making 2 million viewers with her on top when they were doing 2.5 when she wasn't , the delusion is real :heston
> 
> PS: Actually, it's not even 2 million anymore, is 1.8 :lmao


1- The time Becky's chronicle aired she had like 3 of the top 5 on the Network.

2- Where do you get your Merch numbers from? Becky's merch has been the best selling in Europe. 

3- You know I'm not actually crediting Becky for the earnings right?

4- the Nielson rating is no longer the only metric to judge how big of a draw someone is. Maybe she is, or maybe she isn't, if she isn't, then this won't be a big problem, she's not bullet proof chosen one like Roman, they'll just depush her. If they continue pushing her, they see numbers that we don't. 

FACT IS WWE has been having "lowest ever viewership" since like July. Roman, Taker, Brock, HHH and HBK being on the show and they'd still get some all time low ratings, almost every week there was "record new low", and then after that Roman left and they put the title back on Brock and ratings took a bigger dive. 

The ones keeping the product alive are the hardcore fans, and many of them are a bunch of neckberd that bitch and cry if they see a woman hitting a man on TV, because they can't suspend their disbelief for a second. What geeks. Why are you even watching? (and this isn't really meant to u Mord).

When the time was going to come and women were going to get more focus, this backlash would have no doubt happened. Just because they're women, not because it's Becky, just because it's women taking the spotlight. Because god knows that The fans shouldn't care about an ELIMINATION CHAMBER MATCH THAT INCLUDES JOE ORTON BRYAN AJ and JEFF HARDY. Like wtf, Jeff and Orton are fucking huge names, Bryan has ME Mania, AJ was WWE champion for a year, they are on the RTWM..yet IF YOU and everyone else decide to focus on Becky for the 15min of SD only, that's ON YOU. 

At some point, a lot of the men have to take responsibility for this. i am a hardcore Jeff, I'll watch every segment for him. Idk how many fans like me has but HE SHOULD have more, he was a star, he has name value, so does Orton.

How Braun Alexa Charlotte have been booked over the years? they should have HUGE fanbases tunning in just to see them. These guys ARE ESTABLISHED. Yet, no one ever faults them.



llj said:


> When you look at the quarter by quarter earnings, it's clear most of the profits come from the Saudi deal. Q2 and Q4 had gigantic bumps because of GRR and Crown Jewel.
> 
> Nobody is really "drawing" in this company. It's Vince's business deals that are the real moneymakers right now.


Because The Brand is the draw.


----------



## Ace

They actually included this in their financials :lmao

For those who keep saying cable is dying... it is, but WWE ratings are dying at a much quicker rate.


----------



## ClintDagger

Donnie said:


> They actually included this in their financials :lmao
> 
> For those who keep saying cable is dying... it is, but WWE ratings are dying at a much quicker rate.


Cable is probably dying a 20 year death while WWE is more like 10 years.


----------



## Chrome

Yikes. mega

Good thing they got that Saudi blood money.


----------



## Not Lying

Donnie said:


> They actually included this in their financials :lmao
> 
> For those who keep saying cable is dying... it is, but WWE ratings are dying at a much quicker rate.


and yet it could be sthg like this


----------



## shadows123

You know what, I laughed out loud when Elias said to Road Dogg "Shouldn't you be on Smackdown tanking the ratings" :lol .. wwe , good job with the diagram, no better way to calm the investors than by showing your ratings are indeed tanking :lol


----------



## ClintDagger

shadows123 said:


> You know what, I laughed out loud when Elias said to Road Dogg "Shouldn't you be on Smackdown tanking the ratings" :lol .. wwe , good job with the diagram, no better way to calm the investors than by showing your ratings are indeed tanking :lol


Pretty crazy that they are aware / bothered enough by what fans are saying that they reference it in that way to the detriment of themselves.


----------



## Ace

Triple H posing with WWE's newest signing Tarp :lol


----------



## llj

Well, no Becky last night so let's see what happens to the ratings here


----------



## SPCDRI

Donnie said:


>







That was the excuse for so long, "TV is dead. Cord cutting. The whole industry is going down the toilet!"

WWE is falling from the heavens like a lightning bolt and they're snitching on themselves with it so you can't deny it. Criteria of embarrassment. When somebody says something about themselves that is embarrassing, you know its true, its DAMN TRUE, because why else would they say it unless it was undeniable?


----------



## SPCDRI

Donnie said:


> People aren't sticking around for either of them that's for sure.
> 
> Tbf to Bryan he isn't treated well as a world champion. Never main events PPVs, rarely opens and is basically a midcard champion on his own brand.


You could have said the same thing about AJ Styles and probably did. They've been shitting on the champ on Smackdown for fifteen months now!


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 2/12/19 Vs 2/5/19 ):
2.034M Vs 1.841M ( + 0.193M / + 10.48% )
0.660D Vs 0.640D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.034M Vs 2.462M ( - 0.428M / 82.62% )
0.660D Vs 0.837D*

*Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 8th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 2/12/19 Vs 2/13/18 ):
2.034M Vs 2.449M ( - 0.415M / - 16.95% )
0.660D Vs 0.760D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.449M Vs 3.105M ( - 0.656M / 78.87% )
0.760D Vs 1.030D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 5th by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

2.034m :sodone

Even the gauntlet and the follow up from Raw couldn't get them a good bump.

They're in trouble.

SD realistically could be sub 2ms on the RTWM :lol

LMFAO SD getting fucked by Curse of Oak Island and doing barely better than college basketball :lmao :lmao


----------



## ClintDagger

Better than I thought. Based on recent retention trends they should have been about 200k less than that. Gauntlet match probably helped some, and I stress some. It’s still horrible though. Lol.


----------



## Dave Santos

ClintDagger said:


> Better than I thought. Based on recent retention trends they should have been about 200k less than that. Gauntlet match probably helped some, and I stress some. It’s still horrible though. Lol.


I was thinking the same way then realized that last week wen't up against the state of the union. Saw a bit of a bump but not much.


----------



## Ace

Tbf, they were up against NBA and College Basketball this week (think this is the one Duke came back?).

Still a bad number.

The company is irreverent these days, basically any competition kills them. Even Curse of Oak Island :lol


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Of course it went up. There was no SOTU with its leviathan numbers against it. Last week it dropped to 73% RAW. Now it bounced back to 82.6% RAW retention. The last two years it was 84% then 83%. Expect something similar by year's end. Bottom line. Whatever the reason, Smackdown is stuck in this 80+% relationship with RAW. If you want to see Smackdown rise, then RAW will most certainly have to rise before it.


----------



## ClintDagger

Dave Santos said:


> I was thinking the same way then realized that last week wen't up against the state of the union. Saw a bit of a bump but not much.


Even if you go a week back the retention was sub-80. So they did bump a little like you said but nothing to write home about. I’m going to guess they did a bit better of a 2nd hour and that got them over 2MM when they probably would have been more like 1.9MM.


----------



## rbl85

Well this week was the go home show


----------



## shadows123

80% retention..So nothing new here..


----------



## Mordecay

Kofi>Becky confirmed


----------



## RainmakerV2

Hour long wrestling matches LOL


----------



## JDP2016

RainmakerV2 said:


> Hour long wrestling matches LOL


Didn't the Seth Rollins gauntlet match from last year do a good number?

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## llj

Cursed by Oak Island again! LMAO



JDP2016 said:


> Didn't the Seth Rollins gauntlet match from last year do a good number?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


It did very good numbers, but the RTW overall was stronger last year. That little stretch of good ratings helped get them their new TV deals


----------



## Y.2.J

Not the best number overall, considering where SDL started at but it's a nice bump compared to last week.

Going below 2M must've been pretty scary.


----------



## Deathiscoming

The shows suck, no one feels like a star and as good as Bryan is, the show overall lacks that huge star a la Roman Reigns. Joe, AJ, Bryan and Mustafa Ali stand out, but Mustafa just debuted. The others have either been completely overlooked so the damn women get to participate in PPVs while Samoa Joe doesn't, or they're not even maineventing shows while still being WWE champion(because the women's title or IC title mainevented the PPV, in Reigns/Lesnar's absence).

This company was hellbent on pushing women's wrestling and Becky at the expense of making MALE stars who would actually have carried the brands and now they'll pay for it.

Rusev got over and now he's a nobody in a tag team with Nakamura.

Nakamura felt like such a huge star and they completely ruined him so now he LITERALLY seems like a jobber, or a performer at R-truth's level to me, nothing special. No mystique. Just a Japanese guy with fancy entrance music. The guy should've been a megastar.

Samoa Joe-should have been WWE champion and he has no momentum.

Daniel Bryan-Had been playing second fiddle for months, to Becky Lynch and the women's division, just like the rest of the male wrestlers. 

AJ Styles is awesome but his WWE title run was 'meh' and finally when things begun to be interesting in recent weeks, he now feels like a nobody/generic babyface again. 

Randy Orton should be maineventing PPVs and having his final one or two title reigns as a maniac heel but instead they use him in a feud with Jeff Hardy and he simmered down, again.

And they thought the awful women's division and Becky fucking lynch are going to draw viewers. No wonder the ratings reflect it.


----------



## Kratosx23

Mordecay said:


> Kofi>Becky confirmed


Nice try, but last week they were up against Trump.

Becky is doing nothing for ratings, but that rating needs to be thrown out.


----------



## ClintDagger

Tyrion Lannister said:


> Nice try, but last week they were up against Trump.
> 
> Becky is doing nothing for ratings, but that rating needs to be thrown out.


Do wrestling fans really watch political speeches? I’m skeptical as to how much that really affected things just like I’m skeptical that the NFL really affects things all that much. I would say the flat ratings from football season until now might just show us that the effect of some of that stuff is blown out of proportion.


----------



## Erik.

That's just a real awful number.

What's interesting though is that gauntlet matches seem to be see an increase on the previous weeks ratings. I seem to remember a Raw gauntlet match doing decent numbers by modern day WWE standards.


----------



## V-Trigger

Imagine being a Fox executive right now.


----------



## llj

Erik. said:


> That's just a real awful number.
> 
> What's interesting though is that gauntlet matches seem to be see an increase on the previous weeks ratings. I seem to remember a Raw gauntlet match doing decent numbers by modern day WWE standards.


That match did very well last year on RAW (by modern standards).

In fact RAW's ratings last year on the RTW were UP over 2017's RTW. This is what helped get them their new TV deals too, because it looked like they were on the upswing.

Once they signed their TV deals though, ratings began tanking again.


----------



## Frost99

Donnie said:


> The company is irreverent these days, basically any competition kills them. *Even Curse of Oak Island* :lol


Don't joke about the COI, after four years I know more/charterer development about those two bros. & they're partners than I do about most if any of the roster members and what drives them under #WWELogic.....

Plus it airs in Canada every Sunday night so if a PPV sinks than I'll go over and watch that instead lol


----------



## JDP2016

ClintDagger said:


> *Do wrestling fans really watch political speeches? *I’m skeptical as to how much that really affected things just like I’m skeptical that the NFL really affects things all that much. I would say the flat ratings from football season until now might just show us that the effect of some of that stuff is blown out of proportion.


Thank you? I have a hard time believing WWE fans are politically savvy to listen to an entire Trump speech. People need to quit making excuses for the shit ratings.


----------



## Mordecay

JDP2016 said:


> Thank you? I have a hard time believing WWE fans are politically savvy to listen to an entire Trump speech. People need to quit making excuses for the shit ratings.


Actually they made the comparison: Last year they went against Trump too and only dropped like 4% from the week before and made like 2.4 million viewers, now they went from 2.1 to 1.8 million and like a 14% drop, so it wasn't necessarily Trump what provoked those shitty ratings last week


----------



## llj

Smackdown ratings up


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1098616024469929984
I'll let JohnnyL do his breakdown thing later today.

\


----------



## Y.2.J

2.269M viewers. :bjpenn

Best RAW since September, best SD since November. At least things look a bit better.
We'll see if that holds.
I thought both shows this week were great.


----------



## Mordecay

:kofi>>>>>>>>>>>>:becky


----------



## Isuzu

Just like PT Barnum... If you wheel out the acrobats the people will come out to watch (Ricochet), but the Kofi storyline probably helped too.


----------



## Zappers

ClintDagger said:


> _*Do wrestling fans really watch political speeches? *_ I’m skeptical as to how much that really affected things just like I’m skeptical that the NFL really affects things all that much. I would say the flat ratings from football season until now might just show us that the effect of some of that stuff is blown out of proportion.


The bigger question. Do wrestling fans really watch RAW/Smackdown live?

I personally DVR both shows. Watch them at my leisure. Fast forward all those commercials and repeat segments. Both shows fly by and I don't have to be glued to 5 hrs of sitting in front of the TV each week. I'll sit for a PPV, but not for any show with commercials.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 2/19/19 Vs 2/12/19 ):
2.269M Vs 2.034M ( + 0.235M / + 11.55% )
0.750D Vs 0.660D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.269M Vs 2.771M ( - 0.502M / 81.88% )
0.750D Vs 0.963D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 2/19/19 Vs 2/20/18 ):
2.269M Vs 2.613M ( - 0.344M / - 13.16% )
0.750D Vs 0.800D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.613M Vs 3.283M ( - 0.670M / 79.59% )
0.800D Vs 1.143D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 4th by viewership.*


----------



## Y.2.J

I'm not too familiar with USA & Fox numbers and how many households have each station.

Do more households have USA or do more have Fox?

Is it possible for SD's numbers to jump significantly (If Fox has more households) due to going to Fox?


----------



## Dave Santos

Y.2.J said:


> 2.269M viewers. :bjpenn
> 
> Best RAW since September, best SD since November. At least things look a bit better.
> We'll see if that holds.
> I thought both shows this week were great.


I felt like the one where Lashley won the IC title in January was better. But that 's where personal preference comes in.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

:kofi


----------



## HankHill_85

Y.2.J said:


> I'm not too familiar with USA & Fox numbers and how many households have each station.
> 
> Do more households have USA or do more have Fox?
> 
> Is it possible for SD's numbers to jump significantly (If Fox has more households) due to going to Fox?


More have Fox.

Fox is a major network.

USA is a cable channel.

I'll put it this way: Up here in Canada, when you buy a cable or satellite TV package, Fox is one of the networks that you always get by default, it's in even the most basic of TV packages because it's a major network with a million affiliates. The USA Network isn't offered to Canadians at all, which is why WWE is on Canadian sport channels up here.

Another way of putting it:

USA's reach - around 94 million households in the United States
Fox's reach - over 95% of ALL households in the United States

So yeah, I'd say Smackdown has a big chance to overtake Raw when it debuts on Fox.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Kofi's the new Junkyard Dog.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Well, what do you know. RAW goes up and Smackdown does correspondingly and maintains its 80+% RAW retention rate. Nothing new to see here. Both shows got a "ppv bump" which does mean that EC must have generated some interest. The two biggest takeaways from that show were Becky's attack and Kofi's performance. :becky2 :kofi


----------



## ClintDagger

THE MAN said:


> Well, what do you know. RAW goes up and Smackdown does correspondingly and maintains its 80+% RAW retention rate. Nothing new to see here. Both shows got a "ppv bump" which does mean that EC must have generated some interest. The two biggest takeaways from that show were Becky's attack and Kofi's performance. :becky2 :kofi


My guess is that it didn’t so much generate interest as it did curiosity. Meaning people didn’t watch nor hear much about EC so they were tuning in to see what happened and if they care about the direction. Based on how much Raw fell from hour 1 I’d say the fallout didn’t keep people captivated. I’m sure the NXT stuff was a turn off as well. Next week’s numbers will be interesting. Do they stay steady or go back to what they’ve been?


----------



## llj

Zappers said:


> The bigger question. Do wrestling fans really watch RAW/Smackdown live?


I don't even think many people in here watch them. It's clear that a lot of the time people only watch youtube or follow live threads but don't actually watch the shows. You'll find many long threads created on this forum about what happened in the shows where it's obvious nobody posting in these threads actually watched the shows live.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Lol at people attributing this to Kofi or Becky. Both shows had about the same boost. They obviously hooked in the 2 to 300K that follow NXT weekly. Whether they hold them or not? We will see.


----------



## validreasoning

Y.2.J said:


> I'm not too familiar with USA & Fox numbers and how many households have each station.
> 
> Do more households have USA or do more have Fox?
> 
> Is it possible for SD's numbers to jump significantly (If Fox has more households) due to going to Fox?


USA is in about 90 million and falling monthly . Fox is in 120 million and obviously rising as the us population rises. So yeah you could see major jump on Fox

Will be interesting what happens key demo though. This week e.g SD tied with Lethal Weapon on Fox (0.8), beat kids are alright on abc, beat blackish on abc, easily beat the gifted on fox, beat splitting up together and the rookie on abc and tied with ncis new orleans on nbc. With 30 million more home that 18-49 demo should rise


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 2/26/19 Vs 2/19/19 ):
2.150M Vs 2.269M ( - 0.119M / - 5.24% )
0.760D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.150M Vs 2.922M ( - 0.772M / 73.58% )
0.760D Vs 1.017D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 2/26/19 Vs 2/27/18 ):
2.150M Vs 2.692M ( - 0.542M / - 20.13% )
0.760D Vs 0.860D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.692M Vs 3.180M ( - 0.488M / 84.65% )
0.860D Vs 1.067D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## ClintDagger

Decent drop in retention. Shows me that a big chunk of Monday’s audience only tuned in for Roman’s update on his illness.


----------



## Chris90

No Empress and the ratings drop.


----------



## llj

A midcard tag specialist is probably getting a WWE title match at Mania, and they have absolutely no direction for the other belts and champions on the show. People keep saying SD is good...well, good if you're like the hardest of the hardcore maybe. But look at the situation objectively and you can see the show is a mess.

Imagine 10 months ago someone said that Kofi Fucking Kingston was going to be in the WM35 WWE title match on a roster with Samoa Joe, Shinsuke Nakamura, Rey Mysterio and Randy Orton. Legends in the business with championship pedigrees internationally. And all of have been jobbed out to the point where a midcard tag guy is the best contender for the WWE title now AT THE BIGGEST SHOW OF THE YEAR. Why is an NJPW legend like Shinsuke Nakamura always on pre-shows now? Why does Samoa Joe, one of the greatest all around performers of the mid to late 2000s, lose every feud he's in? Why is it that Rey Mysterio and Randy Orton--bonafide wrestling legends at this point--can barely get TV time nowadays, and when they do, they feel like midcarders? How the fuck does this happen?

This would be like if--aside from Steve Austin as champion--Rock, Mankind, HBK, Triple H were all jobbed out too badly to the point that the best contender for the WWF championship during the Attitude Era at Wrestlemania ended up being Billy Gunn.

There's "listening to the fans" and there's "this situation is quite absurd if you think objectively about it and you shouldn't be surprised if it doesn't attract viewers." Just because those hardcore live crowds cheer some old underappreciated favorite doesn't mean a large majority of the viewing audience wants to see "X Underdog for X years" get into a main title match at Mania. 

I mean these are the same crowds that used to try to push Zack Ryder into main event programs. Sometimes the crowds can get it right (Daniel Bryan absolutely deserves to be a main eventer) but there are also others that have been questionable.


----------



## Ace

Let's all be be clear - that's a terrible number.

You would have expected it to increase due to Raw and it obviously didn't which means people simply aren't interested in SD's RTWM.

SD have the knack of overrating SD, yes it looks Oscar worthy when compared to Raw but the show is still shit and doesn't feel important. No wonder the world title feud for the show is going to be Bryan vs a perennial midcard guy they told us for years wasn't good enough.

Again, Kofi is cool but they've booked him too poorly for years for this to be meaningful.

Raw is crapping all over SD's RTWM atm and this is probably unlikely to change as the 3 biggest matches for WM this year are all on Raw, could be 4 if they put Roman in there against someone like Balor in the iC title match or Ambrose.


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

I thought this weeks show sucked


----------



## Deathiscoming

llj said:


> A midcard tag specialist is probably getting a WWE title match at Mania, and they have absolutely no direction for the other belts and champions on the show. People keep saying SD is good...well, good if you're like the hardest of the hardcore maybe. But look at the situation objectively and you can see the show is a mess.
> 
> Imagine 10 months ago someone said that Kofi Fucking Kingston was going to be in the WM35 WWE title match on a roster with Samoa Joe, Shinsuke Nakamura, Rey Mysterio and Randy Orton. Legends in the business with championship pedigrees internationally. And all of have been jobbed out to the point where a midcard tag guy is the best contender for the WWE title now AT THE BIGGEST SHOW OF THE YEAR. Why is an NJPW legend like Shinsuke Nakamura always on pre-shows now? Why does Samoa Joe, one of the greatest all around performers of the mid to late 2000s, lose every feud he's in? Why is it that Rey Mysterio and Randy Orton--bonafide wrestling legends at this point--can barely get TV time nowadays, and when they do, they feel like midcarders? How the fuck does this happen?
> 
> This would be like if--aside from Steve Austin as champion--Rock, Mankind, HBK, Triple H were all jobbed out too badly to the point that the best contender for the WWF championship during the Attitude Era at Wrestlemania ended up being Billy Gunn.
> 
> There's "listening to the fans" and there's "this situation is quite absurd if you think objectively about it and you shouldn't be surprised if it doesn't attract viewers." Just because those hardcore live crowds cheer some old underappreciated favorite doesn't mean a large majority of the viewing audience wants to see "X Underdog for X years" get into a main title match at Mania.
> 
> I mean these are the same crowds that used to try to push Zack Ryder into main event programs. Sometimes the crowds can get it right (Daniel Bryan absolutely deserves to be a main eventer) but there are also others that have been questionable.


Exactly what I stated succinctly in the "would you be ok if Kofi vs Bryan mainevent WM" thread. 

This was my last line, "OMG, did I just forget Shinsuke Nakamura? Shinsuke Nakamura vs Daniel Bryan!" 

Why is Shinsuke an afterthought? We're talking about SHINSUKE effin Nakamura. Not only an afterthought but almost a jobber now:lol 

And these fickle fans are debating whether women should mainevent or Kofi. On a SDL roster that also includes Joe, Nak, Orton and now Kevin Owens. And that's not considering the fact Rusev(if properly booked) could've and would've been a MAIN EVENTER by now after 4 yrs, the last 2 of which were spent by him getting consistently cheered for in the form of "Rusev Day" !

Tell me anyone who considers Kofi or Women over Rusev, Nak, Orton, or Joe is SANE. 

God bless American Democracy, feminism, and Kofi Kingston:lol

Oh man, why do I keep forgetting AJ Styles is also on SDL!? A Roster that has Rey Mysterio, Randy Orton, Rusev, Samoa Joe, Shinsuke Nakamura, AJ Styles and Daniel Bryan :surprise: , and that's not including Andrade or Jeff Hardy and Kevin Owens.


----------



## Mongstyle

llj said:


> A midcard tag specialist is probably getting a WWE title match at Mania, and they have absolutely no direction for the other belts and champions on the show. People keep saying SD is good...well, good if you're like the hardest of the hardcore maybe. But look at the situation objectively and you can see the show is a mess.
> 
> Imagine 10 months ago someone said that Kofi Fucking Kingston was going to be in the WM35 WWE title match on a roster with Samoa Joe, Shinsuke Nakamura, Rey Mysterio and Randy Orton. Legends in the business with championship pedigrees internationally. And all of have been jobbed out to the point where a midcard tag guy is the best contender for the WWE title now AT THE BIGGEST SHOW OF THE YEAR. Why is an NJPW legend like Shinsuke Nakamura always on pre-shows now? Why does Samoa Joe, one of the greatest all around performers of the mid to late 2000s, lose every feud he's in? Why is it that Rey Mysterio and Randy Orton--bonafide wrestling legends at this point--can barely get TV time nowadays, and when they do, they feel like midcarders? How the fuck does this happen?
> 
> This would be like if--aside from Steve Austin as champion--Rock, Mankind, HBK, Triple H were all jobbed out too badly to the point that the best contender for the WWF championship during the Attitude Era at Wrestlemania ended up being Billy Gunn.
> 
> There's "listening to the fans" and there's "this situation is quite absurd if you think objectively about it and you shouldn't be surprised if it doesn't attract viewers." Just because those hardcore live crowds cheer some old underappreciated favorite doesn't mean a large majority of the viewing audience wants to see "X Underdog for X years" get into a main title match at Mania.
> 
> I mean these are the same crowds that used to try to push Zack Ryder into main event programs. Sometimes the crowds can get it right (Daniel Bryan absolutely deserves to be a main eventer) but there are also others that have been questionable.


Yep.

And some people trying to compare Kofi to Eddie are missing the point big time. Eddie was drawing back in 2003/2004. The hispanic audience was tuning in for him big time and it was actually having an effect, even if it wasn't a major one.

Not to mention, Eddie felt like a legit star back then. He was incredibly charismatic, fantastic in the ring, and people were engaged by his every word. It had been like that for months and was only escalating to him getting more and more over. And Smackdown didn't exactly have ten better alternatives waiting in the wings. He was the best choice you had.

Putting aside the fact that Kofi isn't anywhere near as talented as Eddie, he's not bringing in anything. The major reason why he's even over all of a sudden and people want him to go for the title is for fickle reasons. You've had Big E and Xavier going on about how he deserves a world title, and fans latched on to that for a long time now. Then we have this weird dynamic where WWE has kind of shit on fans for over a decade so fans will latch on to anyone they deem "deserving" and just run with it.

And unlike 2003/2004, there are guys who are clearly more noteworthy right now on the roster, have more long-term potential, but have been shafted. Guys like Balor, Strowman, and Joe would've been smarter and better options who have yet to really be given that final big push.

The point here is that Bryan/Kofi only appeals to the hardcore and a major reason why WWE has been struggling is that they've basically allowed the hardcore fans to become the only voice, and they're fickle enough that it doesn't matter. Having a tag team guy in your WWE title match at Mania is a huge joke and the kind of indictment representative of all the failings of modern day WWE.

This is how badly they've fucked things up.


----------



## Erik.

Donnie said:


> Let's all be be clear - that's a terrible number.
> 
> You would have expected it to increase due to Raw and it obviously didn't which means people simply aren't interested in SD's RTWM.
> 
> SD have the knack of overrating SD, yes it looks Oscar worthy when compared to Raw but the show is still shit and doesn't feel important. No wonder the world title feud for the show is going to be Bryan vs a perennial midcard guy they told us for years wasn't good enough.
> 
> Again, Kofi is cool but they've booked him too poorly for years for this to be meaningful.
> 
> Raw is crapping all over SD's RTWM atm and this is probably unlikely to change as the 3 biggest matches for WM this year are all on Raw, could be 4 if they put Roman in there against someone like Balor in the iC title match or Ambrose.


I don't even know what matches are booked at Wrestlemania outside of Rollins/Lesnar and Becky/Ronda/Charlotte

Both are on Raw!


----------



## llj

Bryan v Nakamura
Bryan v Joe
Bryan v Orton
Nakamura v Joe
Nakamura v Orton
AJ v Orton
Joe v Orton

Any number of these matchup combinations would have been interesting WWE title matches for WM35 based on these guys' star reputations alone (or at least, their reputations prior to the nightmare booking of this company during the past few years)

How many people have forgotten how excited fans were when Nakamura made his Smackdown debut? They were singing his song, chanting his name. Now the guy is doing something I don't know what with Rusev. Remember how over Joe was during his feud with Lesnar? Fans legitimately bought the idea that he could really fuck up Lesnar. Now the guy is doing whatever.


----------



## BrokenFreakinNeck

llj said:


> Bryan v Nakamura
> Bryan v Joe
> Bryan v Orton
> Nakamura v Joe
> Nakamura v Orton
> AJ v Orton
> Joe v Orton
> 
> Any number of these matchup combinations would have been interesting WWE title matches for WM35 based on these guys' star reputations alone (or at least, their reputations prior to the nightmare booking of this company during the past few years)
> 
> How many people have forgotten how excited fans were when Nakamura made his Smackdown debut? They were singing his song, chanting his name. Now the guy is doing something I don't know what with Rusev. Remember how over Joe was during his feud with Lesnar? Fans legitimately bought the idea that he could really fuck up Lesnar. Now the guy is doing whatever.


Orton is almost 40 and has been champ plenty of times. He has no business being in a title match at WM.


----------



## llj

BrokenFreakinNeck said:


> Orton is almost 40 and has been champ plenty of times. He has no business being in a title match at WM.


He was just an example.

The point is that Orton is a name, and Wrestlemania is where you want to stack the best names on your roster into the card. You don't put your Johnny No Namers in the top title matches for Wrestlemania, you get the names people KNOW. The rest of the year should be used to build new names. If you are relying on a Johnny No Namer with a 2 month push to be in a Wrestlemania title match, then you've obviously wasted the previous 12 months doing nothing meaningful with your roster.

This is exactly the problem with short term booking. Once you a bonafide star created on the roster, you should have a long term general plan in place for each of them that leads to the next Wrestlemania. This avoids situations like what we have now, where big names like Nakamura, Orton, Mysterio, Joe somehow don't have the credibility anymore to be in the WWE title match at Wrestlemania.

It's fine to create a fantasy Wrestlemania consisting of people in the undercard you always wanted to see pushed, but that doesn't mean it makes for good business.


----------



## tducey

I think it's going to be a Bryan/Owens/Kofi triple threat at WM 35 for the Smackdown world title, match is relatively fresh which is good.


----------



## kingnoth1n

*Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

Pretty easy question, if they brought Scarlett in with her smokeshow gimmick and Vince gave her the green light to push the envelope creatively as much as she desired, would she outdraw Becky, and by outdraw I mean ratings, merch and asses in seat wise?


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Probably. Sex sells. 

Probably not in merch though. Ratings & attendance very likely though.


----------



## kingnoth1n

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*



SayWhatAgain! said:


> Probably. Sex sells.
> 
> Probably not in merch though. Ratings & attendance very likely though.


I think in merch she could potentially blow her away, because chicks like that can reel the casuals in. All she would have to do is like go out there in a white T shirt that says smokeshow on it with the smoke emoji and it be low cut not wearing a bra, then she will be all over the web the next day, and probably a bunch of thots will see it then grab the shirt, and it gets ppl tuning it that normally wouldn't.


----------



## Lorromire

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

Who?


----------



## Kratosx23

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

I doubt it. Wrestling fans are past the idea of models who can't wrestle being in the ring. Maybe it would attract casuals, but it's a different era. There's a million porn sites at the click of a button where they can see much better looking women than Scarlett Bordeaux doing a lot more than posing in lingerie. 

In any case, WWE wouldn't run a gimmick that's overly risque because it wouldn't fly in todays culture. If WWE could get away with presenting women as sex objects, they'd still do it. The most they do is Corey Graves and his fawning over Mandy Rose, but she's barely even presented that way. Even she has to pretend to be a wrestler. Luckily for TNA, or unluckily, really, but in this case, luckily for them, they're so far off the radar that no one is noticing enough to write articles about them.

Either way, why does it have to be Scarlett Bordeaux? They have women under contract they can do this shit with.


----------



## InexorableJourney

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

Sauna matches, drop the soap, tassel hypnotism.

I might watch that.


----------



## kingnoth1n

Tyrion Lannister said:


> I doubt it. Wrestling fans are past the idea of models who can't wrestle being in the ring. Maybe it would attract casuals, but it's a different era. There's a million porn sites at the click of a button where they can see much better looking women than Scarlett Bordeaux doing a lot more than posing in lingerie.
> 
> In any case, WWE wouldn't run a gimmick that's overly risque because it wouldn't fly in todays culture. If WWE could get away with presenting women as sex objects, they'd still do it. The most they do is Corey Graves and his fawning over Mandy Rose, but she's barely even presented that way. Even she has to pretend to be a wrestler. Luckily for TNA, or unluckily, really, but in this case, luckily for them, they're so far off the radar that no one is noticing enough to write articles about them.
> 
> Either way, why does it have to be Scarlett Bordeaux? They have women under contract they can do this shit with.


Because she has the charisma to pull it off without question, and this is purely a hypothetical debate because WWE doesn't have the nuts to roll with the scenario I presented (at the moment at least), and I would direct you to Scarletts Triple A debut with 22 million views as evidence that she could possibly blow any diva on the roster away as far as drawing, and for an indy wrestler, more or less, thats a hell of a deal.



InexorableJourney said:


> Sauna matches, drop the soap, tassel hypnotism.
> 
> I might watch that.


I smell a 5.0 rating with proper advertising


----------



## ScorpionDeathFlop

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

Nope. The WWE Universe that actually cheers on and enjoys the women's division wouldn't be into her.


----------



## reamstyles

I dont want to be hypocrite in not agreeing that scarlett can sell.. But wwe is onnthe right track in getting the next female rock.. the next hollywood female a star.. you just have to be patient and eventually stars will align to them..


----------



## Styl1994

reamstyles said:


> I dont want to be hypocrite in not agreeing that scarlett can sell.. But wwe is onnthe right track in getting the next female rock.. the next hollywood female a star.. you just have to be patient and eventually stars will align to them..[/QUOTE
> 
> If you are talking about Becky Lynch you are wrong she won’t be the female Rock.


----------



## Hurricanes18

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

No she woulden't. Becky kinda like Bryan got super over because she raged againgst the machine. A Backlash to Vinces treatment of her. You can't manufacture that. She got over on her own, so of course Vince had to squash it.


----------



## kingnoth1n

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*



Styl1994 said:


> reamstyles said:
> 
> 
> 
> I dont want to be hypocrite in not agreeing that scarlett can sell.. But wwe is onnthe right track in getting the next female rock.. the next hollywood female a star.. you just have to be patient and eventually stars will align to them..[/QUOTE
> 
> If you are talking about Becky Lynch you are wrong she won’t be the female Rock.
> 
> 
> 
> Idk about that they both make horrible movies.
Click to expand...


----------



## reamstyles

kingnoth1n said:


> Styl1994 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reamstyles said:
> 
> 
> 
> I dont want to be hypocrite in not agreeing that scarlett can sell.. But wwe is onnthe right track in getting the next female rock.. the next hollywood female a star.. you just have to be patient and eventually stars will align to them..[/QUOTE
> 
> If you are talking about Becky Lynch you are wrong she won’t be the female Rock.
> 
> 
> 
> Idk about that they both make horrible movies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> maybe becky,maybe even scarlett, maybe a new gal, both are quite young and do improvement especially the acting part...
Click to expand...


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

She wouldn't be anymore of a draw then Becky nor anyone else for that matter. MAYBE bring a few people back but other than that no. As been said porn exist and is only a click away. Why the hell would anyone now watch a wrestling show to see a hot woman prance around?


----------



## Calico Jack

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

I'd like it. Could do with some sex appeal on the show.


----------



## greasykid1

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

There is next to no interest on WWE's part these days in individual wrestlers "drawing". They invest in the occasional "outsider" superstar like Rousey to bring in a new batch of fans, but on the whole, WWE believes that people come to see the WWE product, not individuals.

If they gave 2 shits about individuals drawing crowds, they wouldn't treat their over talent like garbage.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

There was a time where wrestling used to be about hot women prancing around half naked, big sweaty men and crazy presentation. Those were good days not going to lie, but wrestling is evolving. I'd like to think that hot women being sexy alone isn't going draw people. Especially the women these days they want to be more then just eye dressing for the screen, they have shown equal passion about wrestling as the men and they want to be presented as such. As athletes not sex objects. 

Yes sex sells. People will always be attracted to that kinda stuff. Sexiness draws people to the screen especially us dudes. Not as much as it used to though. Why? Because hypothetically if I wanted to watch naked women I could simply do so on the internet. It becomes less appealing if I am watching wrestling and literally all the ladies have to offer is there looks. I watch wrestling, to watch wrestling. If the women can wrestle, but they are also hot then that's just icing on the cake. But I don't watch because they are hot. I want a little more then that. That's just me personally.


----------



## reamstyles

Wait a minute, is scarlett already ripe enough for a callup? You know, impact is the nxt of nxt...


----------



## krtgolfing

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

Nope. If I wanted to get a hard on I would just watch a porno.


----------



## Mordecay

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

She probably would I mean, Sable was the most popular woman in WWE and one of the most popular acts in WWE's hottest era doing similar stuff to what is Scarlett is doing right now and you could argue that time has changed and while some hardcore fans may hate it she probably would attract more casuals


----------



## ellthom

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

I am sure Scarlett Bordeau is a sweetheart and everything but my god that stuff she does on Impact makes me cringe. I know what they are trying to do with her but it's so badly executed. It's like they wanna capture the sexploitation of the attitude era with none of the risks

In our current landscape where scantly clad women is but one click away there's no reason to see it on a wrestling show. If I wanna watch hot women I can just open a new tab. I don't need to see it, and as Impact has shown it just comes across so cringey when they even try. Wrestlers stick to wrestling, leave the sexy stuff to the professionals.


----------



## Lockard The GOAT

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

She's not even that hot, though


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

Yeah, her gimmick is actually a really good one, and isn't all about sex like most think.

But no one watches impact, so i can't blame anyone there.


----------



## Geeee

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

In case you haven't noticed, Becky Lynch is already highly physically attractive. They haven't made that a part of her character because they're just not going in that direction with their female wrestlers. The WWE could've easily taken someone like Alexa Bliss in this direction if they wanted to. Probably the WWE makes more money from sponsors than they do from ratings or PPV buys.


----------



## A-C-P

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

This isn't the 90's anymore, the is an unending stream of beautiful women running around naked, doing sexual explicit stuff on this thing called the internet, its not special to wrestling, and Scarlett isn't drawing any big buzz for Impact anyways.


----------



## krtgolfing

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*



Lockard The GOAT said:


> She's not even that hot, though


I guess you are more of a Tamina and Nia Jax type of person!


----------



## TripleG

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

No because no way on Earth WWE's current format would allow Scarlet to be what she is on Impact. Not a chance.


----------



## Lockard The GOAT

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*



krtgolfing said:


> I guess you are more of a Tamina and Nia Jax type of person!


Nah, although you can just tell Nia WOULD be prettier than Scarlett if she just lost weight.

I just think Scarlett is bland looking, is all.


----------



## RamPaige

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

Can she do anything other than being "sexy"? Can she wrestle decent enough? Can she talk? Is she charismatic? People like Sable only worked in the attitude era because porn wasn't easily accessible. Something like that wouldn't work even if WWE didn't have sponsors who look down on that type of entertainment. A woman would have to be more like Trish Strauts than Sable in order for the fans to get into her, that's why Alexa was able to get over but others like Mandy and Lana weren't able to do so. 

Impact Wrestling might still have those type of fans that only want women to be attractive, but you need more than that now in the WWE. That's why Becky is as over as she is, that's why Sasha and Bayley were over before the WWE killed their momentum, that's why Asuka was extremely over before WWE dropped the ball.


----------



## iarwain

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

The problem is that you can't really plan this sort of thing. Becky got over partly through her hard work and charisma, and partly through pure accident and circumstance.


----------



## ObsoleteMule

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

Naw... we have so much free porn out there that it wouldnt make sense for casuals to tune in simply for a hot chick. This isnt the old days when hot chicks werent really all that accessible to the general public


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

No one’s outselling anyone, WWE is in a constant stable decline, nothing in the foreseeable future is changing that.


----------



## Krin

In this SJW era, probably not with the WWE audience. These new fans would take one look at Scarlett and think she's talentless based on her gimmick. This era of fans want women with aggressive characteristics and wrestle like men.


----------



## HankHill_85

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

She's fun to look at, that's for sure. But you'd have a sizable portion of the audience ranting that she's "setting the division back 15-20 years" by just being a nice set of tits and an ass, like an Eva Marie situation all over again. And I can't say I'd disagree with them. The audience wants women to kick ass these days, and if they just happen to look good doing it, then cool.


----------



## The XL 2

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

How hard could it possibly be? It's not like Becky draws on any metric. That's not a knock on her, it's a fact. Nobody draws anymore. The only people that can draw are guys that were created before the PG era, like Rock and Batista.


----------



## IceTheRetroKid

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

*Look, she got outdrawn by Becky Lynch even when they were both rosebuds, so if you can't even outdraw another rosebud, you're pretty much not making it.

unkout*


----------



## The Quintessential Mark

Not in the long term no she's a sex vixen sure but how many have we seen exactly?

It's not like she's going to strip down naked on a weekly basis.


----------



## Flawlessstuff

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

She is just a better Mandy Rose. Sexy gimmicks dont work anymore because badass tomboys and Virginal girl cute girl next doors appeals to men more these days.


----------



## headstar

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

Becky Lynch is not a draw:

http://3wt9g11xou5g1onsz01tdv74.wpe...ds/2019/02/SmackDown-empty-e1549022030193.jpg

Being over with smarks is not the same thing as being a draw and having mainstream appeal. If that was the case, ROH and Indy wrestling would be bigger than WWE.


----------



## JDP2016

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

What sexless loser is watching a wrestling show just to see a pretty half naked woman slut herself on TV?


----------



## yeahright2

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

WWE doesn´t have the audience for that kind of performance anymore  so if Scarlet went to WWE, she would be moderated heavily, thus not being able to play her character to the best extent possible.. No, in that environment, she wouldn´t "outdraw" Becky.

Call me old fashioned, but I liked the days when women had bra n´ panties matches, or the exhibitionist gimmick of Kelly Kelly. Yeah, a lot of the women were no good at wrestling, but they could offer something the men NEVER could (at least not to any straight male), and that´s being sexy. I want diversity in wrestling, and when the women completely drops the one thing they had that males didn´t, it makes the show more dull. I wouldn´t watch an entire show with only that sort of thing, but a little bit of this, and a little bit of that.. It´s about the entire show, not single segments.


----------



## McNugget

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

Do me a favor before I answer. Quantify how much Becky Lynch draws, or how much anyone in WWE draws, in 2019.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

Well considering the fact that that there is no data to support that Becky Lynch is a draw(TV ratings suck and attendance sucks) beyond maybe t-shirt sales then I'm sure with the right set of circumstances someone could outdraw her. Though I don't see why people care who draws and who doesn't. If you're a fan of somebody and others aren't who gives a crap? what the other side of the coin says or thinks is irrelevant and likely isn't going to sway your opinion anyway. It isn't like Becky Lynch is Sable of Chyna who large numbers of people genuinely tuned in to see(for whatever the reason may be). She's a wrestler who the crowds that show up love but there doesn't appear to be many people who show up because they love her.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

Sex sells but in an era where a 14 year old can open his phone and be watching supermodel extreme bukkake mukbang in literally 20 seconds are that many new fans really rushing to see Scarlett Bordeaux (as hot as she is) in some underwear?


----------



## NapperX

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

Not in today's WWE, but there's a good spot for her.


----------



## TD Stinger

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

I think she out draw her in Youtube numbers. But as someone who's seen a bit of her "Smoke Show" shtick in Impact, a lot of it goes to humor and I think after awhile, people would probably get bored after awhile and move onto something else.

Not to mention, this is a PG show we're talking about.

But in terms of merch and just general overall buzz, I don't see it.


----------



## Stevieg786

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

Fuck yeah she would, I’m considering watching Impact just if Scarlett. She’s fire


----------



## lesenfanteribles

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

I think she could but I think she'd be a better fit in a previous era considering they don't do those stuff that much anymore. Then again, things may change.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

*Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*

Yes and on a side note, Killer Kross is one lucky guy


----------



## Ace

Of course she would, there are less attractive ig models with bigger followings.

She's doing close to 1m youtube views for TNA, imagine WWE with their indian fanbase.

You'd be getting 5m+ a week with a lot of her vids becoming the WWE's most viewed, Roman would no longer be their top YT draw.


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*



headstar said:


> Becky Lynch is not a draw:
> 
> http://3wt9g11xou5g1onsz01tdv74.wpe...ds/2019/02/SmackDown-empty-e1549022030193.jpg
> 
> Being over with smarks is not the same thing as being a draw and having mainstream appeal. If that was the case, ROH and Indy wrestling would be bigger than WWE.


Agreed, this over pushing if Becky has killed my interest


----------



## Ace

*Re: Would Scarlett Bordeaux outdraw Becky Lynch*



deathvalleydriver2 said:


> Agreed, this over pushing if Becky has killed my interest


 Tbf SD attendance is always like that. Still with the push Becky has gotten she's done nothing for ratings or attendance. You could argue that she's doing a really poor job for ratings as she's not keeping fans around and drops have accelerated. For anyone else they book as just another guy, fair enough but to someone who is heavily featured like this and is being positioned to main event WM it's nowhere good enough. I use to give the same crap to Roman as he was booked above everyone else, like Becky is now.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 3/5/19 Vs 2/26/19 ):
2.155M Vs 2.150M ( + 0.005M / + 0.23% )
0.700D Vs 0.760D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.155M Vs 2.783M ( - 0.628M / 77.43% )
0.700D Vs 0.983D*

*Note: SDL is 3rd by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 3/5/19 Vs 3/6/18 ):
2.155M Vs 2.590M ( - 0.435M / - 16.80% )
0.700D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.590M Vs 3.099M ( - 0.509M / 83.58% )
0.750D Vs 1.093D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 4th by viewership.*


----------



## llj

They need to decide what to do with this Becky and Charlotte thing and keep it on one brand, which at this point should be RAW. It's clearly overexposed at this point and it's debatable whether it's actually doing anything for the numbers.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 3/12/19 Vs 3/5/19 ):
2.198M Vs 2.155M ( + 0.043M / + 2.00% )
0.710D Vs 0.700D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.198M Vs 2.819M ( - 0.621M / 77.97% )
0.710D Vs 0.973D*

*Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 8th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 3/12/19 Vs 3/13/18 ):
2.198M Vs 2.771M ( - 0.573M / - 20.68% )
0.710D Vs 0.910D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.771M Vs 3.352M ( - 0.581M / 82.67% )
0.910D Vs 1.157D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

S.O.S Our ratings suck.

S.O.S. We're S.O.L. :kofi :heston


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

I bet Fox is looking to get out of their deal.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Seriously RAW has lost .533M viewers in a year while Smackdown has dropped .573M. It appears the Road to Mania has been condemned.


----------



## InexorableJourney

THE MAN said:


> Seriously RAW has lost .533M viewers in a year while Smackdown has dropped .573M. It appears the Road to Mania has been condemned.


Same viewers do you think?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

InexorableJourney said:


> Same viewers do you think?


I imagine so. These shows draw the same audience. It's just that the ratings decline over the course of the five hours usually. They def. haven't grown their audience and it has been contracting at an alarming rate. I still am wondering where rock bottom is for their ratings and also how being on Fox and on Fridays affects Smackdown's going forward.


----------



## ClintDagger

THE MAN said:


> I imagine so. These shows draw the same audience. It's just that the ratings decline over the course of the five hours usually. They def. haven't grown their audience and it has been contracting at an alarming rate. I still am wondering where rock bottom is for their ratings and also how being on Fox and on Fridays affects Smackdown's going forward.


I think rock bottom is really low. Like sub-500k within 5-7 years. They have a lot of old viewers and a lot of young viewers who are big flight risks. The only die hards who will never leave are the middle aged rabid smarks.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

Jeez this is the time wwe has conditioned everyone is the only time of the year that matters and the ratings suck


----------



## Deathiscoming

Can't wait for the viewers to decline even more, can't wait for 2M to 1.5 and fewer :lol :lol

Wonder what are they gonna do then? Still keep pushing Becky, women's revolution garbage, and comedy jobbers like Kofi? :lol


----------



## Papadoc81

Deathiscoming said:


> Can't wait for the viewers to decline even more, can't wait for 2M to 1.5 and fewer :lol :lol
> 
> Wonder what are they gonna do then? Still keep pushing Becky, women's revolution garbage, and comedy jobbers like Kofi? :lol


Doesn't who gets a push. The ratings keep declining regardless.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 3/19/19 Vs 3/12/19 ):
2.208M Vs 2.198M ( + 0.010M / + 0.45% )
0.740D Vs 0.710D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.208M Vs 2.695M ( - 0.487M / 81.93% )
0.740D Vs 0.887D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 3/19/19 Vs 3/20/18 ):
2.208M Vs 2.888M ( - 0.680M / - 23.55% )
0.740D Vs 0.990D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.888M Vs 3.327M ( - 0.439M / 86.81% )
0.990D Vs 1.157D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

Duplicate post glitch. Nevermind.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Their ratings are horrible, and it's not because of Kofi or Becky or Ronda or Roman or Seth or Batista or Brock or any one individual talent people want to blame, it's because of *Vince McMahon.*


----------



## Mordecay

IIconics appereance = Ratings increase


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

FOX is shredding their contract as I type.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> FOX is shredding their contract as I type.


FS1 within 6 weeks.


----------



## Erik.

SayWhatAgain! said:


> FS1 within 6 weeks.


I thought that was the plan?

It'll be on FOX for a month and then head over to FS1?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Down 23.55% from last year. Down .25 in the demo year to year. Why? Nothing they have this year could match the return of Daniel Bryan. :bryan


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Erik. said:


> I thought that was the plan?
> 
> It'll be on FOX for a month and then head over to FS1?


Is that the actual plan? I have no idea, that was just my prediction given how bad the ratings are. I thought the plan was Fox, that's why they wanted Ronda & Brock?


----------



## A-C-P

Erik. said:


> I thought that was the plan?
> 
> It'll be on FOX for a month and then head over to FS1?


Thats not the plan as far I know. As far as I know Fox wants it on their regular network, but Fox did reserve the right to change it from Friday nights or move it to one of their other networks if they so choose is how I understood the deal.


----------



## Erik.

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Is that the actual plan? I have no idea, that was just my prediction given how bad the ratings are. I thought the plan was Fox, that's why they wanted Ronda & Brock?


That's what I heard.

I'm sure the FOX CEO stated that WWE will have Fridays live for the short term on FOX.


----------



## Littbarski

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Their ratings are horrible, and it's not because of Kofi or Becky or Ronda or Roman or Seth or Batista or Brock or any one individual talent people want to blame, it's because of *Vince McMahon.*


Yes the show that finished top of cable rankings on Tuesday is considered a horrible rating. Only in the IWC.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Littbarski said:


> Yes the show that finished top of cable rankings on Tuesday is considered a horrible rating. Only in the IWC.


They get good ratings for cable, nobody is denying that, but losing over half a million viewers in one year is not good at all.


----------



## Ace

Lmao even a gauntlet can't get a good bump for them.

They're so fucked :lmao


----------



## Littbarski

Erik. said:


> SayWhatAgain! said:
> 
> 
> 
> FS1 within 6 weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought that was the plan?
> 
> It'll be on FOX for a month and then head over to FS1?
Click to expand...

Why would they agree to move show to a much smaller network than USA, logically that makes no sense. How can people actually believe AEW will get picked up by TNT and SD will air on 3rd tier FS1, boggles the mind.

Smackdown will air on main Fox channel for next 5 years replacing UFC on Fox.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Littbarski said:


> Why would they agree to move show to a much smaller network than USA, logically that makes no sense. How can people actually believe AEW will get picked up by TNT and SD will air on 3rd tier FS1, boggles the mind.
> 
> Smackdown will air on main Fox channel for next 5 years replacing UFC on Fox.


TNT might like the proposal of an adult oriented wrestling show more than the PBS Kids crap WWE is these days.


----------



## Erik.

Littbarski said:


> Why would they agree to move show to a much smaller network than USA, logically that makes no sense. How can people actually believe AEW will get picked up by TNT and SD will air on 3rd tier FS1, boggles the mind.
> 
> Smackdown will air on main Fox channel for next 5 years replacing UFC on Fox.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Turning a comedy jobber into superman overnight doesn't boost ratings. Who woulda thunk?


----------



## SPCDRI

Littbarski said:


> Why would they agree to move show to a much smaller network than USA, logically that makes no sense. How can people actually believe AEW will get picked up by TNT and SD will air on 3rd tier FS1, boggles the mind.
> 
> Smackdown will air on main Fox channel for next 5 years replacing UFC on Fox.


Smackdown is trying to replace programming that does two to three times as many viewers, with better class demographics. They're going to the FSI Ghetto in under 3 months. FOX programming is supposed to do 4+ million viewers. FOX is very quick to change time slots, move to other channels and just flat out cancel. They pull the plug on a lot of programming. 

Its supposed to replace Last Man Standing's time slot. That show does about 5 million and leads 18-49 demo. That is the lead in to a show that does about 4 million viewers as well. 

FOX is shitting glass pineapples over Smackdown potentially tanking their Friday nights against CBS.


----------



## Erik.

SPCDRI said:


> Smackdown is trying to replace programming that does two to three times as many viewers, with better class demographics. They're going to the FSI Ghetto in under 3 months. FOX programming is supposed to do 4+ million viewers. FOX is very quick to change time slots, move to other channels and just flat out cancel. They pull the plug on a lot of programming.
> 
> Its supposed to replace Last Man Standing's time slot. That show does about 5 million and leads 18-49 demo. That is the lead in to a show that does about 4 million viewers as well.
> 
> FOX is shitting glass pineapples over Smackdown potentially tanking their Friday nights against CBS.


I wonder if that's why the CEO of FOX mentioned it would be a temporary thing.

I could seem the moving Smackdown to a different date as a possibility too.


----------



## Jonhern

Erik. said:


> I wonder if that's why the CEO of FOX mentioned it would be a temporary thing.
> 
> I could seem the moving Smackdown to a different date as a possibility too.


Tuesday is actually a good spot for it on FOX lol. But I am sure they would be required to give WWE enough notice. They can't just change their touring schedule on a whim, they would need months of lead time, and FOX got it because its live, would be silly to revert back to it being taped.


----------



## Jonhern

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Turning a comedy jobber into superman overnight doesn't boost ratings. Who woulda thunk?


Since when is a member of the longest reigning Tag Champions in history a Jobber?


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Jonhern said:


> Since when is a member of the longest reigning Tag Champions in history a Jobber?


The tag titles haven't meant anything in 15 years.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Like that jabroni Kofi was gonna draw viewers :lol . May be if they had someone deserving like Cesaro in that spot instead.


----------



## Littbarski

SPCDRI said:


> Smackdown is trying to replace programming that does two to three times as many viewers, with better class demographics. They're going to the FSI Ghetto in under 3 months. FOX programming is supposed to do 4+ million viewers. FOX is very quick to change time slots, move to other channels and just flat out cancel. They pull the plug on a lot of programming.
> 
> Its supposed to replace Last Man Standing's time slot. That show does about 5 million and leads 18-49 demo. That is the lead in to a show that does about 4 million viewers as well.
> 
> FOX is shitting glass pineapples over Smackdown potentially tanking their Friday nights against CBS.


LMS has been unexpected success for Fox but it only airs 20 times a year not 52 like Smackdown. And it's demos are not much better as it draws 0.9 while Smackdown does 0.7-0.8 on a much smaller network. It wouldn't be hard to move LMS to a better day like Monday anyway.

Completely false statement that everything on Fox is supposed to draw four+ million viewers. UFC on Fox had been averaging 1.5-2 million viewers and it aired on Fox for 8 years. Fox offered UFC $200 million per year but UFC wanted $450m.

This past Tuesday both shows on Fox did under 3 million with show at 9pm getting beat by SD in viewers and demo










During the summer months from May to September Fox airs re-runs and low rated sports content so they get nowhere near 4 million or even two million viewers.










Anyway point being SD highest rated show on cable Tuesday nights isn't moving to FS1. This reminds me of when everyone here 18 months ago was convinced WWE wouldn't get a tv deal or have to settle for much less money.


----------



## Littbarski

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> TNT might like the proposal of an adult oriented wrestling show more than the PBS Kids crap WWE is these days.


Being a supposed adult oriented wrestling show didn't help TNA or Lunch Underground in their tv negotiations and LU even had men beating up 80lb women.

Networks only care about two things.
1. 18-49 demo 
2. Can they sell show to advertisers.

A show that's aired for 20 years and continually ranks #1-3 on cable on the particular night it airs will obviously has a much better chance of getting a top tv deal than one that has no history.

WWE have spent two decades cleaning up their image making them more viable to top networks and advertisers. That's why networks want them while they can't sell advertising on other pro wrestling shows.


----------



## Jonhern

.79 demo 2.393 mill this week, up 185k from last week. Kofi baby.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 3/26/19 Vs 3/19/19 ):
2.393M Vs 2.208M ( + 0.185M / + 8.38% )
0.790D Vs 0.740D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.393M Vs 2.589M ( - 0.196M / 92.43% )
0.790D Vs 0.887D*

*Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 3/26/19 Vs 3/27/18 ):
2.393M Vs 2.576M ( - 0.183M / - 7.10% )
0.790D Vs 0.780D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.576M Vs 3.367M ( - 0.791M / 76.51% )
0.780D Vs 1.170D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 4th by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

How the hell did they get that much of a bump?

Last week's Gauntlet with Kofi didn't even draw that much.


----------



## Jonhern

Donnie said:


> How the hell did they get that much of a bump?
> 
> Last week's Gauntlet with Kofi didn't even draw that much.


That's what people don't really get here, that week's ratings won't be affected that much by what is on, that's more the retention that is important to look at, it's more the following week when you will see a bump because people hear about it and therefore will tune in to see what is going on next.


----------



## Ace

Jonhern said:


> That's what people don't really get here, that week's ratings won't be affected that much by what is on, that's more the retention that is important to look at, it's more the following week when you will see a bump because people hear about it and therefore will tune in to see what is going on next.


 The only thing they advertised was the follow up to the Kofi stuff and AJ/Kurt.

The gauntlet match and Asuka/Charlotte weren't advertised and Kurt's return to SD, neither would make that much of a difference.

Maybe the gauntlet did do well, but idk where the +185,000 came from.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Good number considering how poor the ratings have been. Still was lower than RAW Hour 3 which is a travesty. 92.43% RAW retention is the highest in a while and it only shed 183,000 viewers year to year which was a 7.1% drop. RAW was down 778,000 viewers year to year this week. :brock4


----------



## obli6154

Donnie said:


> How the hell did they get that much of a bump?
> 
> Last week's Gauntlet with Kofi didn't even draw that much.


Asuka losing the title.

The show already had more buzz than usual online beforehand because of all the cryptic rumors about something big happening. And then social media blew up once Charlotte beat Asuka for the belt.


----------



## Ace

obli6154 said:


> Asuka losing the title.
> 
> The show already had more buzz than usual online beforehand because of all the cryptic rumors about something big happening. And then social media blew up once Charlotte beat Asuka for the belt.


 Social media has already shown to mean fuck all. And the crowd that's on there would rather stop watching than watch because of it.

+ you're overestimating the reach of those reports.

HHH and Batista don't get anywhere as much love online and yet they've been able to bring in more fans than anyone during the RTWM.

WWE has the breakdowns, maybe the gauntlets are doing huge numbers. They've had 3 in the last month or so and they did really well for Raw as well.


----------



## Mordecay

Kofi>Becky as a ratings draw


----------



## Ham and Egger

Kofi is moving that needle, baaaaaaaaaabbbbbbbeeeeeeeyyyyyyy.


----------



## Jonhern

down in the demo and audience. .71 demo and 250k fewer than last week at 2.141 mil


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 4/2/19 Vs 3/26/19 ):
2.141M Vs 2.393M ( - 0.252M / - 10.53% )
0.710D Vs 0.790D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.141M Vs 2.639M ( - 0.498M / 81.13% )
0.710D Vs 0.917D*

*Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 4/2/19 Vs 4/3/18 ):
2.141M Vs 2.467M ( - 0.326M / - 13.21% )
0.710D Vs 0.790D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.467M Vs 3.358M ( - 0.891M / 73.47% )
0.790D Vs 1.193D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 4th by viewership.*


----------



## llj

LOL. That's a November - December number. Pathetic.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

And the beat goes on. They hit their 80+% RAW retention. They were down 326,000 viewers year to year but what's new? I see no rhyme nor reason for losing 252,000 viewers in a week since RAW slightly increased. How bout that Road to Mania? :heston


----------



## RainmakerV2

You mean Kofi Kingston is about to be champ and numbers drop like a rock?

No way. Im shocked.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

A stick figure comedy jobber with no mic skills or charisma having the show built around him chases viewers away? Shocking.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> You mean Kofi Kingston is about to be champ and numbers drop like a rock?
> 
> No way. Im shocked.


Well Bryan is champ and the numbers have never been that low.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> Well Bryan is champ and the numbers have never been that low.


They booked a story with a lot of twists and turns that was interesting. Once Kofi conquered they lost 200k LMAO. Like cmon, this dudes a joke.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> They booked a story with a lot of twists and turns that was interesting. Once Kofi conquered they lost 200k LMAO. Like cmon, this dudes a joke.


The numbers were already decreasing before the "Kofimania" started


----------



## Ace

Well that explains why they did a gauntlet match every week, their numbers are ass without it.

So much for Kofimania being a draw.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The fact that Kevin Owens was supposed to be in this spot and now literally isnt even on the Mania card for this nerd makes me wanna drink my own piss.


----------



## rbl85

Donnie said:


> Well that explains why they did a gauntlet match every week, their numbers are ass without it.
> 
> So much for Kofimania being a draw.


Nobody said that Kofi was a draw (or nobody was serious about it)

There is not an active wrestler who is a draw today.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> You mean Kofi Kingston is about to be champ and numbers drop like a rock?
> 
> No way. Im shocked.





nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> A stick figure comedy jobber with no mic skills or charisma having the show built around him chases viewers away? Shocking.


I see that you're still blaming the talents for the low numbers (even though they'll continue to lose viewers no matter who they push) :deandre



RainmakerV2 said:


> The fact that Kevin Owens was supposed to be in this spot and now literally isnt even on the Mania card for this nerd makes me wanna drink my own piss.


Oh, it's going to be even more satisfying then to see Kofi Kingston win the WWE title to a thrilling crowd reaction


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitC said:


> I see that you're still blaming the talents for the low numbers (even though they'll continue to lose viewers no matter who they push) :deandre
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, it's going to be even more satisfying then to see Kofi Kingston win the WWE title to a thrilling crowd reaction


The guy finally conquered a 2 month long story and 200K people left on the go home WM show. We aint making it the fuck up.


----------



## ManiaSeason2017

I never paid for sporting events on my own, so maybe I got it twisted, but it seems like Smackdown is not even close to being sold out. Ticket prices are great, I would go, but I would want to go to both Raw and Smackdown, or none at all. Raw is basically sold out, and i do not think I can afford tickets to both nights. I love Smackdown, hate Raw, but I have a strong feeling Raw is going to be the best night generally. 


There seems to be plenty left for Mania as well, but I can't tell if those are resells or not. I wouldn't enjoy that big of a crowd so far away from home anyways.


----------



## .christopher.

rbl85 said:


> Well Bryan is champ and the numbers have never been that low.


Bryan's my favourite on the roster and maybe 2nd of all time, but I stopped watching many months ago, and stopped watching his individual segments a couple or so months ago.

Not even my favourite can get me to watch this trash. I don't wanna see a show featured around bloody Kofi Kingston. I didn't a decade ago and I sure as hell don't now.


----------



## V-Trigger

Another proof that Live crowds mean shit to the general audience.


----------



## ClintDagger

V-Trigger said:


> Another proof that Live crowds mean shit to the general audience.


Worse than that, what the hardcores go nuts for seems to turn off the casuals. What I’m noticing is, if the hardcores like something WWE should run as fast as they can in the opposite direction.


----------



## ClintDagger

rbl85 said:


> Nobody said that Kofi was a draw (or nobody was serious about it)
> 
> There is not an active wrestler who is a draw today.


No, but there does seem to be “anti-draws”. Meaning there are certain acts that if you feature them and make them the focal point of the show then a large section of the audience that usually stays tuned will turn off the program. WWE has catered too much to the hardcores and now they find themselves in a huge mess.


----------



## Erik.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Dave Santos

There are only 3 videos on youtube to get over 1 million view from both raw and smackdown last week. Top 10 smackdown at Rollins Brock 2.8 mil and the Ronda,Becky Charlotte brawl which stands at 4.2 million views. I feel as though there would be more interest on youtube.


----------



## Deathiscoming

ClintDagger said:


> No, but there does seem to be “anti-draws”. Meaning there are certain acts that if you feature them and make them the focal point of the show then a large section of the audience that usually stays tuned will turn off the program. WWE has catered too much to the hardcores and now they find themselves in a huge mess.


That's a nice concept, Anti-draws.

I suspect that to me and many others, women's wrestling is one of those things, anti-draw, change-the-channel type deal. (I don't care if some ugly tall woman like Charlotte can wrestle almost as ably and skilfully as Seth Rollins, to me, she's neither as appealing as a male heavyweight, nor a light heavyweight...and I certainly don't care to see a whole bunch of those talentless unattractive freaks who aren't even half as good as Charlotte as far as wrestling skills go...the women's tag titles LOL..as if I'm gonna give a shit) 

And so is Kofi, a change-the-channel anti-draw. 

I don't get how the WWE can screw up things month after month in an age where they had AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan, Rusev, Joe, Kevin Owens, and Randy Orton on the same show. I mean, the women maineventing, pushing a bunch of women as "maineventers", Jinder as WWE champ, and now Kofi..disgusting. 

A loyal hardcore wrestling/WWE fan can only take so much.


----------



## Erik.

Dave Santos said:


> There are only 3 videos on youtube to get over 1 million view from both raw and smackdown last week. Top 10 smackdown at Rollins Brock 2.8 mil and the Ronda,Becky Charlotte brawl which stands at 4.2 million views. I feel as though there would be more interest on youtube.


Batista clip also has 1,000,000 views.

People wonder why they bring these guys in or keep them around (Brock, Ronda, Batista) and it's because that even if they don't bring in viewers (who the fuck is going to tune in to 3 hours of shit to see 10 minutes of who they want to see), they bring in MILLIONS of YouTube views everytime they appear on screen because they're stars in the sense that people know of them outside of the whole wrestling bubble.


----------



## tducey

Some good #'s there for youtube views. Again ratings are down based upon the product but also because there are many other ways to watch the shows these days that didn't exist yrs. ago. I, myself, never watch wrestling live anymore. I mainly dvr it now.


----------



## llj

Youtube views for Smackdown last Tuesday were godawful. Not a single one hitting 1 million on the go-home show to Wrestlemania. So the ratings aren't good...and the youtube views aren't good either. "But people are watching more online now!" ROFL

There has been far less buzz for this Wrestlemania than there has been in years. I mean, look even in here. The thread for the MAIN EVENT of WRESTLEMANIA hasn't hit 1000 posts yet, and in past years they would have by now.

Fantastic job WWE.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I wonder if Smackdown will be able to hit their 80% RAW mark this week. It doesn't help that both of their champions appeared on RAW. Guess I shouldn't be surprised as RAW is Vince's golden child.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & demo ( 4/9/19 Vs 4/2/19 ):
2.199M Vs 2.141M ( + 0.058M / + 2.71% )
0.780D Vs 0.710D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.199M Vs 2.924M ( - 0.725M / 75.21% )
0.780D Vs 1.083D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & demo ( 4/9/19 Vs 4/10/18 ):
2.199M Vs 2.952M ( - 0.753M / - 25.51% )
0.780D Vs 0.980D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.952M Vs 3.921M ( - 0.969M / 75.29% )
0.980D Vs 1.463D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*


----------



## ClintDagger

Ouch.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Damn, as much shit as Raw got (and deserved), they still got 730K more viewers than SD, even going up against NCAA championship in the 2nd half of Raw.

:trips8

But hey, WWE gets that money from these Network still somehow, so..


----------



## ClintDagger

Sub 2 million on the regular seems to be on the horizon now. Can you imagine being one of those 500k or so casual fans that tuned into Raw curious about WM and they see that the SD champion is Kofi? There’s no way they’re tuning back in for awhile.


----------



## Erik.




----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *Viewership & demo ( 4/9/19 Vs 4/2/19 ):
> 2.199M Vs 2.141M ( + 0.058M / + 2.71% )
> 0.780D Vs 0.710D
> 
> SDL Vs RAW:
> 2.199M Vs 2.924M ( - 0.725M / 75.21% )
> 0.780D Vs 1.083D*
> 
> *Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Viewership & demo ( 4/9/19 Vs 4/10/18 ):
> 2.199M Vs 2.952M ( - 0.753M / - 25.51% )
> 0.780D Vs 0.980D
> 
> SDL Vs RAW:
> 2.952M Vs 3.921M ( - 0.969M / 75.29% )
> 0.980D Vs 1.463D
> 
> Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 3rd by viewership.*


The following all-time lows were observed, harkening back to SD's debut in Aug 99'.

*-Lowest WM SD viewership in 19 years.
-Lowest WM SD demo in 19 years.
-Biggest WM SD Y-Y viewership drop in 19 years.
-Biggest WM SD Y-Y demo drop in 19 years.

-First WM SD with sub 2.2M viewership.
-First WM SD with sub 0.800D demo.

-Lowest ever cumulative viewership (WM RAW + WM SDL) of 5.123M (2.924M + 2.199M).
-WM 30 RAW and WM 31 RAW on their own drew more viewerships (5.146M and 5.364M respectively).*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

:heston

Looks like they really should have saved Kofi's appearance instead of providing even less reason to watch SDL. That being said, Smackdown sucked last night and has already been deleted from my DVR.. I cannot recall two more crap post Mania shows than what we got this week.

It is funny. Smackdown lost 3/4M viewers in one year but had nearly the same RAW retention which means both shows tanked year to year. WWE's ratings remind me of that flopping fish from the Faith No More video. :lol


----------



## chrispepper

This is why slowly killing the brand split will kill smackdown. It's becoming more and more the B show that you tune into to see repeats of what you were already shown the night before. 

They need to seriously go back to, two completely divided rosters that don't interact, and separate branded PPVs, no excuses. If Becky is going to hold both belts, then she needs to defend both separately with two separate feuds.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

The viewers at home sure seem to be going wild for #KofiMania


----------



## Speedk518

Those are awesome numbers. Watching numbers that resemble the GPA of an SEC football player brings me a lot of joy.


----------



## Ace

:lmao

SD well and truly feels like the B show with a midcarder holding the world title.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Ace said:


> :lmao
> 
> SD well and truly feels like the B show with a midcarder holding the world title.


Feels more like a glorified Sunday Night Heat or Velocity at this point. Kofi is one of the least credible world champions in history along with Jinder, Thwagger and Ronald.


----------



## Dave Santos

Smackdown had 100 000 viewers more 2 weeks ago and is down almost 35% from last year. Its not a joke anymore. Tna had a casual fan base that stayed consistent atleast for a few years. It was lower but atleast their base was holding.


----------



## .christopher.

Haha. Wow.

Kofimania running wild, brother!


----------



## llj

They lacked a lot of top stars on the show this week. And they have slowly pushed down many of the people who were top stars on the programs a year or so ago when they were experiencing a slight uptick in ratings (AJ, Orton, Nakamura, Asuka, KO, Braun), so they can't truly be surprised when many fans have fled as their favorites got marginalized.


----------



## AlternateDemise

:lauren

I originally defended the decision to make Kofi the champion at Wrestlemania. The pattern that followed here was too similar to what was happening with Daniel Bryan back at Wrestlemania 30, and when they gave him the title, ratings actually went up compared to the previous year. We can't say for certain where the main focus among the ratings were in this, but we can say with absolute certainty that Kofi didn't really make much of a difference at all in helping Smackdown's ratings that warrants putting the title on him. At the same time though, the quality of the show wasn't great, and quite frankly even when it is, it's not consistent enough to the point where people would want to watch.


----------



## Dave Santos

So I realized I said 35% in the previous post. Meant 25%. Same as raw's retention.


----------



## drougfree

kofimania :bryanlol


----------



## llj

Bryan's promo from a few weeks ago was totally right too. Those crowds will stick around for Kofi until he won, but like the parasites they are, they'll start to move on to something else once they got a new flavor to latch onto. You can't trust live crowds to be invested in anything or anyone for long term, and you certainly can't trust that they represent the larger viewing audience.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Let's see how these shows will fare after the shake-up stuff is done.


----------



## ClintDagger

Fearless Viper said:


> Let's see how these shows will fare after the shake-up stuff is done.


The shake up shows themselves will do well. That’s an interesting concept especially with Fox on the horizon. But after the smoke clears, I can’t think of anything they could do that will change the trend outside of really stacking one show and making the other almost a C show. Which I just can’t see happening.


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

A goofy comedy act who tosses pancakes loses viewers ? Shocking!!!! Along with a over pushed wannabe Stone Cold


----------



## Eric Fleischer

*Now we're going to find out what Roman Reigns means for ratings*

Smackdown is his show right now. He's the Big Dog. Smackdown should finally at least be able to match RAW in the ratings if he's the real star of the company, right? Everyone from AJ to Bryan to Becky have taken the blame for the fact Smackdown can't overcome being seen as a "B" show.

Enjoy your time in the barrel Joe, it starts next week.


----------



## Prosper

*Re: Now we're going to find out what Roman Reigns means for ratings*

I see a sharp decline. Roman's not gonna change shit. FOX ain't gonna be happy. :denirolol


----------



## SPCDRI

> -Lowest ever cumulative viewership (WM RAW + WM SDL) of 5.123M (2.924M + 2.199M).
> -WM 30 RAW and WM 31 RAW on their own drew more viewerships (5.146M and 5.364M respectively).


Jesus, and that wasn't even that long ago! 5 years ago, RAW was doing more viewership on some of their bigger episodes than RAW and Smackdown put together!

There's a bunch of FOX Execs rigt now trying to find out if they can have the Roman Reigns Pancake Experience debut on FS1.


----------



## 45banshee

Welp,turns out it really was Roman as the big acquisition... 

Roman has been receiving some boos here and there. Think some are reluctant to boo him cause he's a cancer survivor. Let some more time pass he'll be getting full blown boos again.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Whom does Vince blame once the viewership declines even more (less than 2M in a few weeks) ? :lol

Does he blame it on Roman, or the actual cause of decline in Kofi and a bunch of women? After all, who'd want to watch a show with 50% of TV time given to women's wrestling garbage and where Kofi Kingston is your WWE champion :lol.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 4/16/19 Vs 4/9/19 ):
2.219M Vs 2.199M ( + 0.020M / + 0.91% )
0.740D Vs 0.780D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.219M Vs 2.665M ( - 0.446M / 83.26% )
0.740D Vs 0.907D*

*Note: SDL Superstar Shake-Up (2019) is 3rd by demo & 9th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 4/16/19 Vs 4/17/18 ):
2.219M Vs 2.796M ( - 0.577M / - 20.64% )
0.740D Vs 0.980D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.796M Vs 3.622M ( - 0.826M / 77.20% )
0.980D Vs 1.333D

Note: SDL Superstar Shake-Up (2018) was 3rd by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 4/16/19 Vs 4/11/17 ):
2.219M Vs 3.105M ( - 0.886M / - 28.53% )
0.740D Vs 1.050D

SDL Vs RAW:
3.105M Vs 3.429M ( - 0.324M / 90.55% )
1.050D Vs 1.247D

Note: SDL Superstar Shake-up (2017) was 1st by demo & 2nd by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

More record lows. Let history record that one (ro)man was in the main event of both programs for this "historic" week. :reigns2 :bryanlol


----------



## Chrome

Well, at least it went up a bit from last week. About the only positive you can take here lol.


----------



## Ace

20k bump from that piss poor number last week :lmao

This show is going to be curtain jerking for Skip Bayless in no time.


----------



## chronoxiong

They have a lot of viewers they need to win back. 600k drop from last year. That is brutal. But yeah, at least this week went up from last week.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *Viewership & Demo ( 4/16/19 Vs 4/9/19 ):
> 2.219M Vs 2.199M ( + 0.020M / + 0.91% )
> 0.740D Vs 0.780D
> 
> SDL Vs RAW:
> 2.219M Vs 2.665M ( - 0.446M / 83.26% )
> 0.740D Vs 0.907D*
> 
> *Note: SDL Superstar Shake-Up (2019) is 3rd by demo & 9th by viewership.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Viewership & Demo ( 4/16/19 Vs 4/17/18 ):
> 2.219M Vs 2.796M ( - 0.577M / - 20.64% )
> 0.740D Vs 0.980D
> 
> SDL Vs RAW:
> 2.796M Vs 3.622M ( - 0.826M / 77.20% )
> 0.980D Vs 1.333D
> 
> Note: SDL Superstar Shake-Up (2018) was 3rd by demo & 5th by viewership.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Viewership & Demo ( 4/16/19 Vs 4/11/17 ):
> 2.219M Vs 3.105M ( - 0.886M / - 28.53% )
> 0.740D Vs 1.050D
> 
> SDL Vs RAW:
> 3.105M Vs 3.429M ( - 0.324M / 90.55% )
> 1.050D Vs 1.247D
> 
> Note: SDL Superstar Shake-up (2017) was 1st by demo & 2nd by viewership.*


*The following all-time lows for Draft episodes were observed, with the 1st Draft held in March 02'.*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_draft#Drafts

*-Lowest Draft SD viewership in 17 years.
-Lowest Draft SD demo in 17 years.

-Steepest Draft SD Y-Y viewership drop ever.
-Steepest Draft SD Y-Y demo drop ever.

-Lowest ever cumulative Draft viewership (Draft RAW + Draft SDL) of 4.884M (2.665M + 2.219M).
-Cumulative Draft viewership for 2018 and 2017 were 6.418M (3.622M + 2.796M) and 6.534M (3.429M + 3.105M).*


----------



## The Boy Wonder

THE MAN said:


> More record lows. Let history record that one (ro)man was in the main event of both programs for this "historic" week. :reigns2 :bryanlol


If the loss in viewership has to fall on any individual it would probably be Becky Lynch.

Becky has been pushed the hardest since the Royal Rumble. She was featured more than anyone else on the RTWM. She was the lasting image of WM35. She's been on every show since WM (two RAWs, two SDs). The RAW after WM had one million less viewers than last year. It should also be noted that the day they announced the women would main event WM, that episode of RAW had less viewers than the previous week. Another interesting stat: the post-Summerslam RAW had slightly higher viewership than the post-WM RAW from two weeks ago. 

Becky sells a ton of merchandise. But the TV numbers don't lie.

Also, Roman wasn't advertised for Smackdown last night.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Good to see Roman is indeed the biggest star to ever appear on Smackdown. These ratings confirm it. Bigger than Hulk, bigger than Rock, bigger than Taker, bigger than Batista, bigger than Angle.


----------



## Bushmaster

Reigns killed the ratings on Raw so now he’s on SD. Hopefully they don’t get buried further seeing how the show will need to start off great on its new home.


----------



## .christopher.

Kofimania running wild, brother!


THE MAN said:


> More record lows. Let history record that one (ro)man was in the main event of both programs for this "historic" week. :reigns2 :bryanlol


:lol


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 4/23/19 Vs 4/16/19 ):
2.072M Vs 2.219M ( - 0.147M / - 6.62% )
0.710D Vs 0.740D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.072M Vs 2.374M ( - 0.302M / 87.28% )
0.710D Vs 0.813D*

*Note: SDL is 4th by demo & 8th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 4/23/19 Vs 4/24/18 ):
2.072M Vs 2.549M ( - 0.477M / - 18.71% )
0.710D Vs 0.800D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.549M Vs 3.104M ( - 0.555M / 82.12% )
0.800D Vs 1.050D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## Jonhern

.71 demo, 2.072mil total viewers. down almost 150k from last week. and down in the demo.


----------



## llj

Consistent sub 2 millions is coming as soon as the next month


----------



## Hobogoblin

Becky vs Charlotte doesn't draw


----------



## rbl85

Hobogoblin said:


> Becky vs Charlotte doesn't draw


It's like watching the same season of a serie over and over again.


----------



## Chrome

500,000 viewers down from last year. Oof.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

That's awful when you consider they had 2 hooks to keep people tuned in from last week (Roman punching Vince and KO joining New Day) along with Becky/Charlotte being advertised.

Fans are sick of underdog Reigns. They're tired of Becky vs Charlotte. And Vince couldn't wait more than 1 week to ruin the only interesting angle they had going and turned KO heel way too soon. Raw and SD will both be getting sub-2's by the time football starts back.


----------



## llj

rbl85 said:


> It's like watching the same season of a serie over and over again.



I honestly think if they reran an episode from last fall and didn't tell anyone it was a rerun, many people wouldn't even know the difference


----------



## Ace

Yikes, SD will definitely be doing sub 2m deeper into the playoffs.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The only "bright side" is over 87% RAW retention. Imagine if both RAW and Smackdown could regularly fail to break 2m viewers. :banderas


----------



## Adam Cool

Roman doesn't draw
Kofi doesn't draw
Becky doesn't draw
Charlotte doesn't draw

*NOBODY* draws unless if they are a returning veteran


----------



## Jonhern

THE MAN said:


> The only "bright side" is over 87% RAW retention. Imagine if both RAW and Smackdown could regularly fail to break 2m viewers. :banderas


Yeah but not a great demo rating compared to raw.


----------



## Ace

Adam Cool said:


> Roman doesn't draw
> Kofi doesn't draw
> Becky doesn't draw
> Charlotte doesn't draw
> 
> *NOBODY* draws unless if they are a returning veteran


 AE/RA wrestlers and the brand are the only draws.

Everyone else is a nobody to the real world.


----------



## .christopher.

They're reaping what they sowed by burying every potential star they had for Cena many years ago. The same Cena who drove millions away. Then, for some reason, they did the same thing with Roman who's probably even worse than Cena because, unlike Reigns, Cena was over as a single at one point. Not for long, and not over enough to warrant his stupid, wrestling-killing booking, but he was.



Adam Cool said:


> Roman doesn't draw
> Kofi doesn't draw
> Becky doesn't draw
> Charlotte doesn't draw
> 
> *NOBODY* draws unless if they are a returning veteran


True, but it doesn't help that your world champ is Kofi fucking Kingston. I mean, it's laughable.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Kofi Kingston being "WWE champion" is so laughable that my brain doesn't even want to believe it. For instance the backstage segment from SDL where he kept saying "I'm the WWE champion" and gyrating... :lol I'm like, "Yeah moron, I don't believe it either".


----------



## ClintDagger

.christopher. said:


> They're reaping what they sowed by burying every potential star they had for Cena many years ago. The same Cena who drove millions away. Then, for some reason, they did the same thing with Roman who's probably even worse than Cena because, unlike Reigns, Cena was over as a single at one point. Not for long, and not over enough to warrant his stupid, wrestling-killing booking, but he was.
> 
> 
> True, but it doesn't help that your world champ is Kofi fucking Kingston. I mean, it's laughable.


Yeah I wholeheartedly reject the notion that nobody draws therefore it doesn’t do any damage to put the world title on a low-mid card / tag guy. By that logic, you can put it on a fan or whoever you want and the audience won’t care. But that’s not true. The 2MM or so people still watching wrestling lie all across a spectrum. From very loyal hardcores, to people on the fence thinking of jumping off. Those people on the fence are seeing stuff like Kofi as the world champion and Becky as the top star in the company and are leaving the product. And right behind them more people climb up on that fence and are at the decision point whether to give up on WWE or stay.

And this thought that WWE viewership is just destined to go down little by little (or by a lot as we’ve seen this year) is also false. They showed last year that ratings could rebound some.


----------



## chronoxiong

Vince is going to have Kofi drop the WWE Title soon with the ratings this bad. Oh wait, does he even care about the ratings? All he cares is about the live revenue they make.


----------



## Erik.

:lol :lol :lol

Raw lost 500,000 viewers over the last 2 weeks.
Smackdown loses 150,000 viewers from last week in an already low rated wrestling show. 

That must be the lowest Smackdown rating since it went live? (That wasn't some kind of holiday episode) If not, then it must be pretty close.


----------



## SPCDRI

Becky/Charlotte is the new Cena/Orton in that the feud is deader than disco but they keep forcing it. THE BIGGEST SUPERSTAR TO SMACKDOWN, Roman Reigns, couldn't draw flies to feces, either. If you say nobody in the company is a draw, that includes Roman. He means dick to television viewership.

They're going to get their heads taken off by the sports playoffs. No wrestler is booked well enough or carrying himself or herself well enough to take them out of this tailspin anytime soon.


----------



## ClintDagger

chronoxiong said:


> Vince is going to have Kofi drop the WWE Title soon with the ratings this bad. Oh wait, does he even care about the ratings? All he cares is about the live revenue they make.


When he’s getting bombarded with questions about their horrid ratings on investor conference calls you can bet he cares about ratings. In fact he’s spent the last 3 months making panic moves because of the ratings.


----------



## RainmakerV2

.christopher. said:


> They're reaping what they sowed by burying every potential star they had for Cena many years ago. The same Cena who drove millions away. Then, for some reason, they did the same thing with Roman who's probably even worse than Cena because, unlike Reigns, Cena was over as a single at one point. Not for long, and not over enough to warrant his stupid, wrestling-killing booking, but he was.
> 
> 
> True, but it doesn't help that your world champ is Kofi fucking Kingston. I mean, it's laughable.


Well hopefully KO beats him at MITB. Kofi had his Mania moment. Lets move on.


----------



## Jonhern

RainmakerV2 said:


> Well hopefully KO beats him at MITB. Kofi had his Mania moment. Lets move on.


KO is not going to help, his universal championship run was lackluster to say the least.


----------



## llj

Jonhern said:


> KO is not going to help, his universal championship run was lackluster to say the least.


It's more about booking and level of engagement from creative. When they are engaged, they will make a run good. If not, it's bad.

Becky's first title run was bad because they weren't interested. Her 2nd SD title run was good because they were interested. This current one...well...it's early but so far it's not been as good as her 2nd one yet


----------



## Mongstyle

Erik. said:


> :lol :lol :lol
> 
> Raw lost 500,000 viewers over the last 2 weeks.
> Smackdown loses 150,000 viewers from last week in an already low rated wrestling show.
> 
> That must be the lowest Smackdown rating since it went live? (That wasn't some kind of holiday episode) If not, then it must be pretty close.


Here are some other numbers since the brand split which are either lower or basically around the same mark (I've excluded any numbers which have more than 100,000 viewers difference above):

*2019:*

Mar. 5 - 2.16m 
Feb. 26 - 2.15m
Feb. 12 - 2.03m
Feb. 5 - 1.84m
Jan. 29 - 2.14m
Jan. 22 - 2.14m
Jan. 15 - 2.14m
Jan. 8 - 2.03m
Jan. 1 - 2.09m

*2018:*

Dec. 25 - 1.9m
Dec. 11 - 1.98m
Dec. 4 - 1.95m
Nov. 20 - 2.15m
Nov. 6 - 2.1m
Oct. 30 - 2.11m
Oct. 23 - 2.09m
Oct. 9 - 2.1m
Oct. 2 - 2.1m
July 3 - 2.01m
June 26 - 2.14m
June 12 - 2.18m
June 5 - 2.14m

*2017:*

June 13 - 2.07m
May 16 - 2.17m

*2016:*

Dec. 4 - 1.95m
Nov. 9 - 1,92m
Nov. 1 - 2.18m
Oct. 26 - 2.12m

There's actually something very noticeable about these numbers.

2017 was the standout year. Even though they had a couple numbers drop low, their average that year was real good and they had a lot of numbers in the mid-2 millions. I think this is largely because of how Raw did in 2017 where they decreased the decline in ratings and Smackdown benefited as a result. The product in general was doing better in 2017.

But 2018 is definitely the problem year. Their Mania season ratings were slightly lower than 2017, and they declined big time starting Mania 34. What's missing from the numbers I posted in 2018 is that a lot of their numbers after Mania 34, that I haven't included there were around the 2.2 or 2.3 million mark.

And in 2019, you can see they simply haven't recovered. The only benefit I can see from Smackdown's current 2019 numbers after Mania is that they actually haven't dropped below 2 million just yet. And that their current numbers are actually in line with where they've been for the last 9 months. Usually Raw's ratings cratering is bad news for Smackdown, but as we can see from this week, Smackdown had a strong retention. They're still around where they've been for the last 3 quarters, when logic would indicate they'd have dropped even more than they have.

Under the normal trend, and especially seeing how Raw falling in 2018 impacted Smackdown, you'd expect Smackdown to be doing even more poorly than it is right now with numbers more akin to 1.8m or so.

But that's this week. We'll see if they don't fall further over the coming weeks/months.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

So who gets blamed for Smackdown's accelerated freefall? :kofi or :reigns2


----------



## Ace

THE MAN said:


> So who gets blamed for Smackdown's accelerated freefall? :kofi or :reigns2


 It's creative more than anything, putting the title on a geek doesn't help.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Ace said:


> It's creative more than anything, putting the title on a geek doesn't help.


Yeah, the pancake stuff doesn't scream world champ. I was shocked tonight that they were still recapping Mania from 23 days ago instead of moving Kofi forward. He seems to have cooled off now that he's won.

The lion share of the blame is def. on creative but this thread has a history of blaming one wrestler for everything and I'm sure that fine tradition shall continue.


----------



## Bxstr

THE MAN said:


> So who gets blamed for Smackdown's accelerated freefall? :kofi or :reigns2


They both are still drawing better numbers than Bryan though


----------



## Ace

Bxstr said:


> They both are still drawing better numbers than Bryan though


 They aren't drawing shit because no one can. I think that's been established.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

"The brand is the draw"

:vince5


----------



## Ace

SayWhatAgain! said:


> "The brand is the draw"
> 
> :vince5


 I chuckled when I heard Vince talking about stars and the company creating them, you can fool shareholders but you have the audacity to lie to your fans like that?


----------



## ClintDagger

THE MAN said:


> Yeah, the pancake stuff doesn't scream world champ. I was shocked tonight that they were still recapping Mania from 23 days ago instead of moving Kofi forward. He seems to have cooled off now that he's won.
> 
> The lion share of the blame is def. on creative but this thread has a history of blaming one wrestler for everything and I'm sure that fine tradition shall continue.


Kofi doesn’t book the show. But putting the title on him is one of the thousands of issues WWE currently has that is turning audiences off. It was a move done out of desperation and to appease a sliver of the fan base. Kofi as champion is yet another symptom of the disease WWE has been slowly dying from.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

I don't think there's much of a long term prospect in Kofi as champion either way, since his push is largely based on getting a huge pop in a gauntlet match and them (rightfully) capitalizing on it. I'm saying this as a huge Kofi fan who's ecstatic he got such a big WrestleMania win.


----------



## DammitChrist

THE MAN said:


> So who gets blamed for Smackdown's accelerated freefall? :kofi or :reigns2


The answer SHOULD be neither, but you know Kofi Kingston is going to get the blame because some folks have to be petty about the individual talents themselves.



Ace said:


> They aren't drawing shit *because no one can. *I think that's been established.


It's getting pretty sad that we're in 2019, and some people STILL don't understand that yet.


----------



## Jonhern

Wow, 7th place, behind Cruse of oak island and Real housewives. only a .54 demo is really bad for them
.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Wow... these numbers just keep getting worse and worse.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 4/30/19 Vs 4/23/19 ):
1.833M Vs 2.072M ( - 0.239M / - 11.53% )
0.540D Vs 0.710D

SDL Vs RAW:
1.833M Vs 2.158M ( - 0.325M / 84.94% )
0.540D Vs 0.720D*

*Note: SDL is 7th by demo & 13th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 4/30/19 Vs 5/1/18 ):
1.833M Vs 2.436M ( - 0.603M / - 24.75% )
0.540D Vs 0.770D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.436M Vs 3.066M ( - 0.630M / 79.45% )
0.770D Vs 1.080D

Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*-Lowest SDL viewership and demo since The Draft. Previous lowest was Xmas 18' SDL (1.904M and 0.610D).
-Just 0.181M and 9.87% higher than the near 20 year record low viewership/demo of Thanksgiving 15' SD (1.652M and 0.460D).*


----------



## Jonhern

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *Viewership & Demo ( 4/30/19 Vs 4/23/19 ):
> 1.833M Vs 2.072M ( - 0.239M / - 11.53% )
> 0.540D Vs 0.710D
> 
> SDL Vs RAW:
> 1.833M Vs 2.158M ( - 0.325M / 84.94% )
> 0.540D Vs 0.720D*
> 
> *Note: SDL is 7th by demo & 13th by viewership.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Viewership & Demo ( 4/30/19 Vs 5/1/18 ):
> 1.833M Vs 2.436M ( - 0.603M / - 24.75% )
> 0.540D Vs 0.770D
> 
> SDL Vs RAW:
> 2.436M Vs 3.066M ( - 0.630M / 79.45% )
> 0.770D Vs 1.080D
> 
> Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 5th by viewership.*


Something to point out, the retention of the viewers and demo usually are similar percentage wise, but not this week, the retention raw to SDL is around 75% for the demo.


----------



## rbl85

I think somebody is going to need some vaseline.


----------



## raymond1985

Smackdown dropped 24% year on year. With RAW dropping around 29%. If you swapped around Rollins and Reigns, the numbers might meet in the middle. But still, terrible numbers all round.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

:sodone :heston :lmao

:kofi + :reigns = :bryanlol

Seriously that is an atrocious number. They did get 85% RAW retention but that means squat when RAW is setting record lows. This product is ice cold and as flat as Kofi's pancakes. If only there were a hero to save the day.







:reigns2


----------



## The XL 2

1.8 mil for the whole show. Lol hooooly shit. I'm sure Fox is thrilled.


----------



## llj

rbl85 said:


> I think somebody is going to need some vaseline.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Wonder which panic button Vince is going to push for next week?


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Curse of Oak Island BACK AT IT. I really need to watch that show one day, just out of curiosity :lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

"Biggest acqusition in SD history" or some such nonsense.

:lmao


----------



## Adam Cool

Kevin Owens was jobbing for a long time even since he got stomped by Goldberg two years ago , Kofi is a Chaser not a defending champ , hes the type of wrestlers that people root for as an underdog

nobody wants to See Elias Vs Roman since we all know Elias won't win and this is just filler until Roman beats Owens for the title , and NOBODY wants to see Shane and Roman feud besides Indians

So the two "Main Event Feuds" of Smackdown aren't interesting for most people, of course people wont watch


----------



## The Wood

Raw seems to be dropping faster, but SmackDown seems to be getting pummelled because of it too. Compounding the issue is the uninteresting stars. They’re falling and they can’t get up.


----------



## DammitChrist

Is Vince freaking out yet? :trips8


----------



## Jedah

How long will it take them to move to FS1? A week?

Moreover, how long will it take Vince to get over his ego and admit that for the good of the company, he should step aside?


----------



## ElTerrible

The house that AJ Styles build soon having the same rating as his last house. :crying:


----------



## The Wood

We might actually be witnessing The Fall of Rome, guys. That sounds hyperbolic, but what can WWE do? These issues are going to snowball.


----------



## Celtic Esquire

ElTerrible said:


> The house that AJ Styles build soon having the same rating as his last house. :crying:


Anyone who watched TNA could tell you that. 

AJ can wrestle with the best of them, but he can't put butts in the seats nor draw eyeballs to the product.


----------



## A-C-P

:heston :ha :maury :tysonlol :reneelel :bryanlol :beckylol :Rollins


----------



## DammitChrist

Celtic Esquire said:


> Anyone who watched TNA could tell you that.
> 
> AJ can wrestle with the best of them, but he can't put butts in the seats nor draw eyeballs to the product.


How does ratings decreasing (which have been happening for several years now) have anything to do with AJ Styles?


----------



## Adam Cool

The Wood said:


> Raw seems to be dropping faster, but SmackDown seems to be getting pummelled because of it too. Compounding the issue is the uninteresting stars. They’re falling and they can’t get up.


With Smackdown its worse given what Fox Expects


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

This is what they get the past month with garbage writing, not to mention making a mockery with their own Brand Shake up by making too many risk moves. As well as not treating it as seriously. Thinking of switching stars on a fly and then moving a few back to SD due to a demand. Bad match placements. Add in past overly done Authority vs top face for the millionth time. They deserve it.


----------



## The Wood

Adam Cool said:


> With Smackdown its worse given what Fox Expects


They need to basically double their ratings.


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

The big dog and a good comedy jobber are bringing in dem ratings :lol


----------



## Dr. Middy

I mean with WWE itself being the star over their top wrestlers, this was inevitable. Their booking and creative defintely leaves a lot to be desired too.

I'm sure we'll still see people blaming the wrestlers themselves, as par of the course.


----------



## V-Trigger

Vince back on TV next week.


----------



## looper007

No point in blaming any one star on the rating failing. Even their most protected stars like Brock, Ronda and Reigns and legends like Batista returning couldn't up the ratings. It's WWE that's failing and not the talent.


----------



## Ham and Egger

The brand is slowly fizzling out. I'm curious what numbers AEW will draw when their TV drops. I honestly believe Smackdowns jump to Fox in the fall will make up for the ratings.


----------



## RapShepard

Its hard to judge the ratings without knowing what networks consider bad, okay, and good ratings. The UFC is doing 1s in the ratings on ESPN and ESPN is loving them. 1.8 is bad when you look at what they've historically done, but it's still up in the air if that's actually a bad rating in TV land.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Has anybody ever done a WWE survey to say what is wrong with the product? Because all I can see is a company that becomes more and more entrenched in business as usual.


----------



## rbl85

Ham and Egger said:


> The brand is slowly fizzling out. I'm curious what numbers AEW will draw when their TV drops. I honestly believe Smackdowns jump to Fox in the fall will make up for the ratings.


On FOX the numbers will be naturaly higher but i think that FOX will bot be happy with sub 3M


----------



## RapShepard

Ham and Egger said:


> The brand is slowly fizzling out. I'm curious what numbers AEW will draw when their TV drops. I honestly believe Smackdowns jump to Fox in the fall will make up for the ratings.


They'll probably do like a 1.5 the first few shows, then probably sub 1.0 until they establish themselves.


----------



## Ace

:lmao


----------



## Empress

RapShepard said:


> They'll probably do like a 1.5 the first few shows, then probably sub 1.0 until they establish themselves.


I predict a strong, relatively speaking, start for AEW. They will stabilize. I can give a brand new company time to grow and find its audience but WWE is dropping like flies, even if streaming is now king. The product is such trash for the most part. I'm hoping that any success for AEW will cause Vince to stop being so lazy. I still think Fox must have an escape clause. I wouldn't turn over a billion dollars to a company that's creatively coasting.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Brock and Cena will be on SD for the first few Fox shows, calling it now. Wouldn't even be surprised if they throw money at Rock.


----------



## Jedah

The Wood said:


> We might actually be witnessing The Fall of Rome, guys. That sounds hyperbolic, but what can WWE do? These issues are going to snowball.


It definitely feels like they've lost a decisive battle and now the only thing left is for their enemy to mop them up and stamp out token resistance.

Interesting analogy with Rome because it reminds me of the Battle of Adrianople in 378. The Emperor Valens was a fool and didn't prepare for the battle well. He thought it would be easy. The Goths smashed his army and he lost his own life. The Roman military had been in decline for a while but was never quite the same afterward. They relied more and more on the barbarians and the Western Empire dissolved a century later.

It really is feeling that way. I'm not sure at what point that battle quite was, but I'll make a tentative guess and say it was Mania 34. That was their last chance to put Roman and the top title over and they balked again. The show was an aimless mess after it. Raw really declined fast after Mania 34.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: All SmackDown TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here &amp;gt;&amp;gt; THE BLUE BRAND RATINGS WAR*



Empress said:


> I predict a strong, relatively speaking, start for AEW. They will stabilize. I can give a brand new company time to grow and find its audience but WWE is dropping like flies, even if streaming is now king. The product is such trash for the most part. I'm hoping that any success for AEW will cause Vince to stop being so lazy. I still think Fox must have an escape clause. I wouldn't turn over a billion dollars to a company that's creatively coasting.


I don't think Fox will be worried. SmackDown will easily be their 2nd highest rated show. They go shows averaging way less than a 1.8 that they renew and they produce those shows. 

https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/fox-2018-19-season-ratings/

Heck even for it to be losing viewers SmackDown still landed in the top 10 for the 18-49 demo.

https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/tuesday-cable-ratings-april-30-2019/


----------



## llj

They're not getting those lapsed fans back. All they can do is try to improve the product and get some fans onboard who have no prior knowledge of the shit of the past few years. They still have even lower to go before that happens, though.


----------



## Empress

Jedah said:


> It definitely feels like they've lost a decisive battle and now the only thing left is for their enemy to mop them up and stamp out token resistance.
> 
> Interesting analogy with Rome because it reminds me of the Battle of Adrianople in 378. The Emperor Valens was a fool and didn't prepare for the battle well. He thought it would be easy. The Goths smashed his army and he lost his own life. The Roman military had been in decline for a while but was never quite the same afterward. They relied more and more on the barbarians and the Western Empire dissolved a century later.
> 
> *It really is feeling that way. I'm not sure at what point that battle quite was, but I'll make a tentative guess and say it was Mania 34. That was their last chance to put Roman and the top title over and they balked again. The show was an aimless mess after it. Raw really declined fast after Mania 34.*


I don't get why Vince is such a chicken shit when it comes to Reigns. He walks right up to the line and then punks out. 

Also, Charlotte/Becky for the billionth time isn't gonna bring any more viewers.


----------



## The Wood

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> I mean with WWE itself being the star over their top wrestlers, this was inevitable. Their booking and creative defintely leaves a lot to be desired too.
> 
> I'm sure we'll still see people blaming the wrestlers themselves, as par of the course.


You’re spot-on with the first paragraph, but I disagree that the wrestlers are _blameless_. They’re compliant in their own degradation. They do the menial shit that makes it impossible for them to stand out. It’s part nature of the beast, but a guy like Austin, for example, wouldn’t be caught dead doing half this shit.

You can say that’s an apples to oranges comparison, but that’s the difference between guys who know how to be top stars and guys who don’t. 



rbl85 said:


> On FOX the numbers will be naturaly higher but i think that FOX will bot be happy with sub 3M


That’s the magic number, I feel. FOX ain’t paying for something that delivers fewer viewers than they get now.


----------



## Jedah

llj said:


> They're not getting those lapsed fans back. All they can do is try to improve the product and get some fans onboard who have no prior knowledge of the shit of the past few years. They still have even lower to go before that happens, though.


I'm guessing the Network is more or less the floor, so around 1.5 million.



Empress said:


> I don't get why Vince is such a chicken shit when it comes to Reigns. He walks right up to the line and then punks out.
> 
> Also, Charlotte/Becky for the billionth time isn't gonna bring any more viewers.


Because he botched the push to begin with and thought he could recover it somehow. Instead he just botched Roman, Brock, and held everyone else hostage for four years. He deserves everything he's getting.

The women's division has been botched as well this year. All downhill from the Rumble in particular.


----------



## Dolorian

Empress said:


> I don't get why Vince is such a chicken shit when it comes to Reigns. He walks right up to the line and then punks out.


It truly is the most frustrating thing as a Reigns fan. Vince wants him as the guy, pushes and presents him as such but then books him to never win the big one. That finish to Mania 34 was absolutely deflating and you can tell from the documentary that it really hit Reigns hard to find out about it.


----------



## llj

Dolorian said:


> It truly is the most frustrating thing as a Reigns fan. Vince wants him as the guy, pushes and presents him as such but then books him to never win the big one. That finish to Mania 34 was absolutely deflating and you can tell from the documentary that it really hit Reigns hard to find out about it.



I think so. We know Roman wasn't the most popular FOTC but ratings for last year's RTW was higher than 2017 and definitely higher than 2019. So, there was a sense that there were viewers engaged with the story that his coronation was finally happening...and it didn't. That deflated people who both loved and hated Roman because if you liked him you wanted to see him win. If you hated him you just wanted to see the company get it over with already and crown him. Everyone waited 4 years for this and they blew it.

They tried to make up for it this year with Becky, Seth and Kofi, but they were playing to an already depleted audience so it was too little too late.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Not Roman's biggest supporter, but even I can see that was his time.


----------



## The Wood

I wasn’t against the loss to Brock, in general. There was an interesting story to tell there. The problem was how they did it. At least present Brock as a babyface. It was just deflating, borderline funny, the way they did it. 

They should have turned him heel in 2015. He’d be the coolest guy in wrestling by now if they had done it. 

But yeah, he’s not been protected. Loses way too much for a top guy. Lost to Big Show, didn’t he? Heading into that Brock loss I think he lost to Miz too, haha. That was...baffling.


----------



## Jedah

There was no interesting story to tell. Even at that point everyone was sick of Brock and his absentee reign, but at least there was an end in sight. At least it would be _over with_. Not pulling the trigger only put Raw in an abyss and no one had a clue when it would end. That black hole at the top of the card sucked everything else into it.


----------



## Adam Cool

The Wood said:


> I wasn’t against the loss to Brock, in general. There was an interesting story to tell there. The problem was how they did it. At least present Brock as a babyface. It was just deflating, borderline funny, the way they did it.
> 
> They should have turned him heel in 2015. He’d be the coolest guy in wrestling by now if they had done it.
> 
> But yeah, he’s not been protected. Loses way too much for a top guy. Lost to Big Show, didn’t he? Heading into that Brock loss I think he lost to Miz too, haha. That was...baffling.


Trying to make Lesnar Heel with Meta "hes lazy and hates the business"smark Pandering shit killed the storyline , it killed Brocks character and killed Roman's too after he lost 

Why the fuck did they go with that story I will never know


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Wood said:


> You’re spot-on with the first paragraph, but I disagree that the wrestlers are _blameless_. They’re compliant in their own degradation. They do the menial shit that makes it impossible for them to stand out. It’s part nature of the beast, but a guy like Austin, for example, wouldn’t be caught dead doing half this shit.
> 
> You can say that’s an apples to oranges comparison, but that’s the difference between guys who know how to be top stars and guys who don’t.


I get what you're saying to an extent, but even guys like Austin have come out and said they couldn't survive the type of climate WWE currently has. It's easy for both of us to sit here and say that these should really go up and demand change or tell Vince "Hey, you should do this instead of this." But there's also the chance they'll just be ignored and pushed down the card, which we have seen. So instead, you end up with most of them being happy with their positions for the sake of job security, and not taking as many risks because of it. 

I kinda can't blame them for this really, but I feel like some of them could stand to improve in facets they lack. Take somebody like Lana, who feels like she is being forgotten. I do wonder if she is truly trying all she can to improve in the ring for example, versus just complaining.


----------



## The Wood

Jedah said:


> There was no interesting story to tell. Even at that point everyone was sick of Brock and his absentee reign, but at least there was an end in sight. At least it would be _over with_. Not pulling the trigger only put Raw in an abyss and no one had a clue when it would end. That black hole at the top of the card sucked everything else into it.


Is Raw better off with a champion being there every week? What does that even mean? Ratings are getting worse with one. 



Adam Cool said:


> Trying to make Lesnar Heel with Meta "hes lazy and hates the business"smark Pandering shit killed the storyline , it killed Brocks character and killed Roman's too after he lost
> 
> Why the fuck did they go with that story I will never know


Oh my god, it was awful. I’m glad someone else feels the same way. 

You’ve got this guy whose a special attraction. What do you do you with him? Tell your fans he’s boring and lazy. How does that many any promotional sense? You should be selling a once-in-a-lifetime star that is making history. 

They’d even call him a coward. Okay...but you know when he’s not a coward? When he shows up as a big deal at the PPV and beats your ass to a pulp. It’s like two kids agreeing to meet for a fight after school. One kid, who is supposed to be the babyface, talks shit at recess about how the other kid hasn’t fought him yet. Then the heel kid knocks him the fuck out in seconds at the agreed upon time and place. How is that geek talking shit supposed to look good? So stupid. 



The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> I get what you're saying to an extent, but even guys like Austin have come out and said they couldn't survive the type of climate WWE currently has. It's easy for both of us to sit here and say that these should really go up and demand change or tell Vince "Hey, you should do this instead of this." But there's also the chance they'll just be ignored and pushed down the card, which we have seen. So instead, you end up with most of them being happy with their positions for the sake of job security, and not taking as many risks because of it.
> 
> I kinda can't blame them for this really, but I feel like some of them could stand to improve in facets they lack. Take somebody like Lana, who feels like she is being forgotten. I do wonder if she is truly trying all she can to improve in the ring for example, versus just complaining.


You’re right about that. It is largely environmental. I guess I just don’t feel sorry for wrestlers who willingly enter that environment since it has been the same way for a loooooong time now. I guess there are people looking to get out now though. More power to those guys and girls.


----------



## Jedah

> Is Raw better off with a champion being there every week? What does that even mean? Ratings are getting worse with one.


Yeah, guess when that decline began? It wasn't when the champion was there every week.


----------



## The Wood

Jedah said:


> Yeah, guess when that decline began? It wasn't when the champion was there every week.


The decline has been going on waaaay before that.


----------



## raymond1985

Jedah said:


> Yeah, guess when that decline began? It wasn't when the champion was there every week.


Not really. 

The recent weeks have seen even steeper declines. Which have posted close to 30% year on year declines. Even Smackdown's viewership did not decline to the same extent this week. 

This is perhaps the start of a more profound decline in RAW's viewership. I think it's a combination of long-standing issues such as poor booking and a tired format, and the new issue of Rollins as champion and a weak flock of contenders.


----------



## llj

The truth is these massive ratings declines for both shows really started last fall around the time Roman disappeared for leukemia treatment and when the Charlotte-Becky feud was ruling Smackdown every week. They were still on a noticeable decline before those things but from around the start of the NFL season and up to now, the decline hastened dramatically. I'm not saying it was those things that started it. I'm just saying if people really wanted to figure out when these ratings lows began for both shows, it was around the fall.

I think Roman being missing showed just how poorly the rest of the roster was build up and once people saw how naked the emperor was without its clothes, they realized just how poor the product really was. That's why even when Roman came back, it didn't do anything.

As someone elsewhere mentioned, fans are better mobilized now and social media spreads word about a product really quickly. The amount of negativity surrounding the WWE product has been building a long time, but it's only recently where it's nearly everywhere you look people are saying how shitty the WWE product is. I don't think I've ever seen a time where the WWE's rep for producing and booking a shitty product has been so highlighted as lately. While this may not have affected the existing live crowds, it's affecting almost all the other numbers.


----------



## SPCDRI

They did .1 worse in demo and 100,000 fewer viewers than last year's CHRISTMAS EPISODE. 

WWE is doing CHRISTMAS NUMBERS in April! Talk about some coal in ye olde stockings!


----------



## ellthom

just 1.8 million overnight viewers. Down 25% from a year ago....

I can only assume these rating will get lower and lower. Time to wheel Mr McMahon out there and micromanage everything to make it 5x worse. If thats possible at this rate lol.


----------



## The Wood

Meltzer is predicting that SmackDown will fall even more as it's about to come up against some tougher competition with shows putting out their series finales. If the rate declines as much as it did last year (and there's a chance it could be worse), then they'll end up doing 1.65 by the end of May.


----------



## Jedah

raymond1985 said:


> Not really.
> 
> The recent weeks have seen even steeper declines. Which have posted close to 30% year on year declines. Even Smackdown's viewership did not decline to the same extent this week.


Again, that's because there was no ratings bump before Mania, after, as llj said, the fall really started to drop the rock out from under them, but even before then, 2018 post-Mania was a horrible, horrible time for Raw, which is what SD's ratings in turn depend on. Those ratings were dropping faster than normal and it just snowballed from there, to the point that there was no ratings bump for Mania this year.

No ratings bump means even steeper declines afterward.


----------



## raymond1985

Jedah said:


> Again, that's because there was no ratings bump before Mania, after, as llj said, the fall really started to drop the rock out from under them, but even before then, 2018 post-Mania was a horrible, horrible time for Raw, which is what SD's ratings in turn depend on. Those ratings were dropping faster than normal and it just snowballed from there, to the point that there was no ratings bump for Mania this year.
> 
> No ratings bump means even steeper declines afterward.


The viewership at one point before Mania were dropping in the range of 8-10% year on year. This means that viewership had dropped 10% from say the same weeks in February 2018. 

The viewership this week was down 29% from this time last year. This means that viewership had dropped 29% from April 2019. If post-Mania 2018 RAW was horrible. Then post-Mania 2019 RAW must be even worse. 

The viewership decline has increased in terms of percentages year on year in recent weeks. And at a rate not seen before Mania. I believe the departure of Rousey and Brock has played a role in this. As well as Rollins being champion. But that's just my opinion.


----------



## The Wood

Jedah said:


> Again, that's because there was no ratings bump before Mania, after, as llj said, the fall really started to drop the rock out from under them, but even before then, 2018 post-Mania was a horrible, horrible time for Raw, which is what SD's ratings in turn depend on. Those ratings were dropping faster than normal and it just snowballed from there, to the point that there was no ratings bump for Mania this year.
> 
> No ratings bump means even steeper declines afterward.


You're not speaking jibberish, but WWE has been declining forever. I really felt like a jump the shark moment was in 2015 when Roman won the Rumble. Seth did a pretty bad job as champion (his booking wasn't great, mind), and then you do the brand split, which is always awful for Raw. Owens wasn't exactly killing it as champion. 

The fall was awful, but you had lots of terrible stuff going on then. Roman getting sick, the awful Ambrose stuff, Braun turning heel, Bryan turning heel, the Saudi show and the gross aftertaste of that, the women being a focus (not a problem with me, but some fans aren't as progressive), generally bad stories. I don't think you can blame it on Brock. Especially when he drops the belt and things don't get better. Are you still going to blame it on Brock when, say, Seth isn't bumping the TV ratings heading into Mania either? 

The company has a lot of problems. The Universal Title being on their biggest star wasn't that high up there.


----------



## Jedah

Indeed it is, because Ronda and Brock didn't improve ratings either. Ratings always go down after Mania. That is to be expected. The fact that there was no ratings bump during Mania season and they were basically doing Fall numbers means the declines would be even steeper afterward.

This is the culmination of a long, long series of mistakes in booking and presentation. And they deserve every bit of it.



> Are you still going to blame it on Brock when, say, Seth isn't bumping the TV ratings heading into Mania either?


Anyone would be the same. This is a system thing more than a talent thing, but the decision to remove the top title from circulation for the better part of TWO YEARS massively hurt the presentation of the show because there was nothing for people to do. Anyone denying this is a fool.


----------



## The Wood

raymond1985 said:


> The viewership at one point before Mania were dropping in the range of 8-10% year on year. This means that viewership had dropped 10% from say the same weeks in February 2018.
> 
> The viewership this week was down 29% from this time last year. This means that viewership had dropped 29% from April 2019. If post-Mania 2018 RAW was horrible. Then post-Mania 2019 RAW must be even worse.
> 
> The viewership decline has increased in terms of percentages year on year in recent weeks. And at a rate not seen before Mania. I believe the departure of Rousey and Brock has played a role in this. As well as Rollins being champion. But that's just my opinion.


That's a much more succinct point than mine, haha. There's no reason for the gap week-to-week and year-to-year to be getting wider if Brock was the problem. Almost 1 in 10 people who watched Raw last week decided not to watch this week.

I don't disagree that this has been a long time coming for WWE, and the schaudenfraude is amazing, but I don't really follow the logic of there being no big bump before Mania equating to a steeper decline. Interest, in general, has been decreasing, but it's decreasing at a steeper rate now than before.


----------



## raymond1985

Jedah said:


> Anyone would be the same. This is a system thing more than a talent thing, but the decision to remove the top title from circulation for the better part of TWO YEARS massively hurt the presentation of the show because there was nothing for people to do. Anyone denying this is a fool.


No one would deny it's a system thing to a degree. 

But you seem to want to give certain talent a pass. I think it's naive to think that Rollins and others have not fallen short in recent weeks. And that this has accelerated the decline in viewership.


----------



## Ace

Where is my homeboy @BOSS of Bel-Air @?


----------



## Jedah

I guarantee if you put Austin or Rock in there in today's environment it wouldn't make a difference. The declines would more or less be the same.

The product is stale. The formula is just boring. If you've seen one show you've seen them all. Everything is scripted to death. Suddenly everyone seems to have realized this at once (social psychologists sometimes call this phenomenon a "preference cascade"). That point seemed to be late last year after months and months of worse content than usual. Even here, activity in those Raw threads tailed off dramatically post-Mania 34 from the year before because people weren't watching (I was one of them!)


----------



## Ace

If SD does 1.5m, oh man :lmao

That would be special, those kind of numbers that should lead to tearing up contracts @Fox


----------



## Ace

LMFAO did they really do the job to Real Housewifes, has the company ever been more irreverent.

This is amazing :ha :heston :lmao :sodone

They jobbed to a bunch of bitchy reality tv housewives :lmao

Have some shame.


----------



## raymond1985

Jedah said:


> I guarantee if you put Austin or Rock in there in today's environment it wouldn't make a difference. The declines would more or less be the same.
> 
> The product is stale. The formula is just boring. If you've seen one show you've seen them all. Everything is scripted to death. Suddenly everyone seems to have realized this at once (social psychologists sometimes call this phenomenon a "preference cascade"). That point seemed to be late last year after months and months of worse content than usual. Even here, activity in those Raw threads tailed off dramatically post-Mania 34 from the year before because people weren't watching (I was one of them!)


I agree that the product is stale. 

But it always helps if you have a lead performer who somewhat looks and acts the part. There were attributes that Austin and Rock had that the likes of Rollins didn't have that can't be attributed to a poor format or booking. 

As an example, Austin and Rock didn't have annoying voices and were very good public speakers. Austin had a natural intensity. The Rock looked like a million bucks. These small things would help stop the bleeding to a degree.


----------



## The Wood

Wrestlers make the belts, belts don't make the wrestler. At least not since the days of kayfabe, and even then it's arguable that wasn't the case. Ronnie Garvin and Tommy Rich say hi. I just don't understand why not having a big red belt featured in a 20-minute promo or throwaway match every week would make the difference you're suggesting it would. The IC Title was still there. Now that Rollins has the Universal Title, it feels like the IC Title, because Rollins feels like an IC Champion. 

I really don't mean this offensively, but I think it's kind of being a belt mark to assume that it being on Raw in 2019 is going to prevent a ratings decline. Especially when it is on Raw and doesn't prevent a ratings decline, lol. The WWE Title has been featured forever, and that hasn't helped SmackDown. I just don't get that reasoning. 

Can you explain to me why the belt being around every week changes the quality of the programming and would help retain viewers?


----------



## Jedah

They'd book Austin and Rock as scripted robotic geeks just like everyone else today. Maybe they would help a little through natural charisma, but not enough.



> Can you explain to me why the belt being around every week changes the quality of the programming and would help retain viewers?


Because it gives people *something to do.*

If you can't see why it was such a problem that the top title wasn't there for TWO YEARS, I don't know what to say.


----------



## The Wood

Jedah said:


> I guarantee if you put Austin or Rock in there in today's environment it wouldn't make a difference. The declines would more or less be the same.
> 
> The product is stale. The formula is just boring. If you've seen one show you've seen them all. Everything is scripted to death. Suddenly everyone seems to have realized this at once (social psychologists sometimes call this phenomenon a "preference cascade"). That point seemed to be late last year after months and months of worse content than usual. Even here, activity in those Raw threads tailed off dramatically post-Mania 34 from the year before because people weren't watching (I was one of them!)


I see your point with this, to a degree. Austin wouldn't be around in this. But the thing is, Rock actually did make a difference in 2011-2013 (at least where WrestleManias were concerned). There are definitely issues with staleness and the formula. I like the term "preference cascade," thanks for sharing that. That's a good phrase to describe what seems to be going on.

I just don't see the Brock point as being central. The issues have been going once since before Brock even returned. Hell, they've been going on since before he _debuted_. They've intensified recently, but there are so many compounding factors. Brock as champion -- an actual dude with credibility that knows how to carry himself like a star -- that's got be low now, come on.


----------



## The Wood

Jedah said:


> Because it gives people *something to do.*
> 
> If you can't see why it was such a problem that the top title wasn't there for TWO YEARS, I don't know what to say.


But it wasn't like everyone was just standing around with their hands in their pockets. There was three hours of awful content every week. Throwing a big red belt into that doesn't change the content.

Example: Seth Rollins and Dolph Ziggler main evented Extreme Rules last year. Brock wasn't there, but you still had a main event. It was just over a white belt instead of a red one. Does it change things if it's for the WWE World Universal Goldenweight Championship? It's still Rollins vs. Ziggler in the main event.


----------



## Jedah

Yes it does, because it gives meaning to some of the matches. In a company with enough meaningless filler content to begin with, having your top title gone and your main event scene basically non-existent as a result just made the situation even worse. And they did it for two damn years.

Should've just pulled the trigger on Braun when he was mega hot in 2017. Vince chose not to, intentionally cooled Braun off, made Roman a bitch at Mania 34 anyway, and now he's eating his stupidity.


----------



## DammitChrist

raymond1985 said:


> No one would deny it's a system thing to a degree.
> 
> But you seem to want to give certain talent a pass. I think it's naive to think that Rollins and others have not fallen short in recent weeks. And that this has accelerated the decline in viewership.


Why are you so desperate to blame Seth Rollins for the decreasing ratings?

Seriously, they've been losing viewers for many YEARS now. The likes of Seth Rollins, Kofi Kingston, Daniel Bryan, Brock Lesnar, Charlotte Flair, AJ Styles, Asuka, Roman Reigns, and Carmella have ALL been on top as the world champions over the past year; but yet ratings still continue to decrease.

How many times new (world) champions and pushed talents will it take for some folks to finally wake up and realize that nobody on the current roster will keep ratings from decreasing? 

At this point, the blame should be directed on Vince and the company for underwhelming/displeasing fans with mediocre shows along with poor booking. This isn’t an issue concerning the individual talents themselves. This is a company/management problem.

If the most over talents on the main roster today are unable to keep ratings from decreasing, then WHO ELSE will? A new guy/gal being pushed to the main-event scene will make little difference, ESPECIALLY when the shows have sucked lately.


----------



## The Wood

Jedah said:


> Yes it does, because it gives meaning to some of the matches. In a company with enough meaningless filler content to begin with, having your top title gone and your main event scene basically non-existent as a result just made the situation even worse. And they did it for two damn years.
> 
> Should've just pulled the trigger on Braun when he was mega hot in 2017. Vince chose not to, intentionally cooled Braun off, made Roman a bitch at Mania 34 anyway, and now he's eating his stupidity.


It only lends the meaning you make. It didn't mean jack squat when Owens held it, for example. You can't just say "Oh hey, the World Champion's here" and automatically assume people will buy it. That's why people aren't buying Rollins now. It's why people didn't buy Jinder on SmackDown. It doesn't add meaning unless it means something. 

This is cyclical, lol. Besides, WWE were losing viewers before Brock got his hands on it. Seems really arbitrary and random to pin the blame on him. 



DammitC said:


> Why are you so desperate to blame Seth Rollins for the decreasing ratings?
> 
> Seriously, they've been losing viewers for many YEARS now. The likes of Seth Rollins, Kofi Kingston, Daniel Bryan, Brock Lesnar, Charlotte Flair, AJ Styles, Asuka, Roman Reigns, and Carmella have ALL been on top as the world champions over the past year; but yet ratings still continue to decrease.
> 
> How many times new (world) champions and pushed talents will it take for some folks to finally wake up and realize that nobody on the current roster will keep ratings from decreasing?
> 
> At this point, the blame should be directed on Vince and the company for underwhelming/displeasing fans with mediocre shows along with poor booking. This isn’t an issue concerning the individual talents themselves. This is a company/management problem.
> 
> If the most over talents on the main roster today are unable to keep ratings from decreasing, then WHO ELSE will? A new guy/gal being pushed to the main-event scene will make little difference, ESPECIALLY when the shows have sucked lately.


Eh, there's a point to the ratings dropping off tremendously now though. He's obviously not engaging people as champion. Is there someone they can put the belt on that would stop it? I don't know. That's where I agree with Jedah -- there are systemtic problems in WWE. But I don't think it's a witchhunt to put some responsibility on the guys who do poorly as champ. And this isn't Rollins' first shot. He did pretty poorly in 2015 too, although I don't have the numbers tattooed into my brain.


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> Why are you so desperate to blame Seth Rollins for the decreasing ratings?
> 
> Seriously, they've been losing viewers for many YEARS now. The likes of Seth Rollins, Kofi Kingston, Daniel Bryan, Brock Lesnar, Charlotte Flair, AJ Styles, Asuka, Roman Reigns, and Carmella have ALL been on top as the world champions over the past year; but yet ratings still continue to decrease.
> 
> How many times new (world) champions and pushed talents will it take for some folks to finally wake up and realize that nobody on the current roster will keep ratings from decreasing?
> 
> At this point, the blame should be directed on Vince and the company for underwhelming/displeasing fans with mediocre shows along with poor booking. This isn’t an issue concerning the individual talents themselves. This is a company/management problem.
> 
> If the most over talents on the main roster today are unable to keep ratings from decreasing, then WHO ELSE will? A new guy/gal being pushed to the main-event scene will make little difference, ESPECIALLY when the shows have sucked lately.


You have not read my argument correctly. 

I am saying that the booking and staleness of the product is the main reason for the overall and long-standing decline. But the recent additional decline has been contributed to by Rollins and other performers. I am not sure why people are claiming that Rollins is blameless, to be honest. 

I don't think Rollins, Corbin, and even Styles are suited to the very top of the card. They're upper mid-card level talent. You could perhaps argue that Styles should occasionally get in the main events.


----------



## Jedah

Owens at least had Jericho with him and if you really want to go that route, ratings were better with him than they were in the two years of Brock's reign (obviously I'm not saying he's the reason why).

If Brock stayed champion the ratings would be the exact same. I guarantee it. The content would just be even worse. Brock's reign didn't mean a fucking thing either if you want to go that route. All it did was put a black hole at the top of the card and stop people from getting over, including the guy it was originally supposed to get over. Sacrificing everyone to Brock Lesnar since 2014 is a big, big reason why nobody feels like a star now.

This is not a talent issue. This is all booking and presentation.


----------



## raymond1985

Jedah said:


> Owens at least had Jericho with him and if you really want to go that route, ratings were better with him than they were in the two years of Brock's reign (obviously I'm not saying he's the reason why).
> 
> If Brock stayed champion the ratings would be the exact same. I guarantee it. The content would just be even worse. Brock's reign didn't mean a fucking thing either if you want to go that route. All it did was put a black hole at the top of the card and stop people from getting over, including the guy it was originally supposed to get over. Sacrificing everyone to Brock Lesnar since 2014 is a big, big reason why nobody feels like a star now.
> 
> This is not a talent issue. This is all booking and presentation.


I think if Brock was in Rollins' shoes that this week's rating would have seen a 20-25% year on year drop, rather than the 29% year on year drop that was posted. 

Brock is more convincing in the role than Rollins.


----------



## Jedah

You have zero basis to make that claim. It would be the exact same, if not worse. What remaining fans WWE has are all sick to death of Brock and realize what a disaster his reign was.


----------



## raymond1985

Jedah said:


> You have zero basis to make that claim. It would be the exact same, if not worse. What remaining fans WWE has are all sick to death of Brock and realize what a disaster his reign was.


Brock has had a relatively positive impact on TV ratings compared to his peers over the years. He brings an air of legitimacy to the product that others do not.

It was WWE's fault for allowing a part-timer to hold the belt. The booking for deciding that he should do so. The roster for not providing a viable alternative.


----------



## kingnoth1n

NBA Playoffs Rockets vs Warriors game 2 ran at the same time, which is by far the most interesting series in the entire playoffs, and their ratings reflect that, as ratings are low for every other series without the Warriors. That vs Post-Wrestlemania bullshit.

That or I can blame 3 shitty world champs, which do you prefer?


----------



## Fearless Viper

Remember when everyone crucified Jinder for being a ratings killer but then when Styles, Bryan and now Kofi couldn't get the ratings up then suddenly they claimed no wrestlers should be expected to draw ratings? Good times.


----------



## domotime2

now that reigns is on smackdown....and i saw that they're not doing anything creative with Kofi as champ...and becky's on BOTH shows now (and i like her and lacey more)...

well..

thats it. I've been a huge smackdown guy but i didnt watch this week


----------



## SPCDRI

kingnoth1n said:


> NBA Playoffs Rockets vs Warriors game 2 ran at the same time, which is by far the most interesting series in the entire playoffs, and their ratings reflect that, as ratings are low for every other series without the Warriors. That vs Post-Wrestlemania bullshit.
> 
> That or I can blame 3 shitty world champs, which do you prefer?


What a load of bull, that sports argument. Oh look, people decided to play baseball, hockey and basketball in professional leagues for the first time ever in 2019!

It is a preference cascade. Its a psychological bank run on the programming. All these "worst viewership ever" discussions on the internet are giving people permission to stop watching. "Wait, a million people stopped watching this? Why do I have my emotional money in the WWE bank! I'm withdrawing it!" 

Then what do you get? More record low ratings information, more people getting hip to that, "Hey, I'm not the only one!"

WWE for a long time had that sort of See You Next Monday/Tuesday/Friday aura to them because it seemed no matter how bad the product was perceived to be, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5+ million people were going to watch it and you were the weird one if you didn't. 

I do think Brock Lesnar having the top belt in the company for almost 900 days and doing basically nothing with it and elevating nobody with it is part of why there is the mass exit for the doors. That devalued every male wrestler in the company, same with Rousey being champ for a year, dropping the belt on a fluke and leaving the company. The past 3 years has led to the whole roster feeling Midcard for Life. This is further reinforced by AJ Styles being booked as less important to other people on Smackdown like Daniel Bryan and the McMahons and Triple H and Rollins holding the IC belt for so long in a lot of people's minds, that is his level. Daniel Bryan out with an injury is the cherry on top of the sundae.


----------



## kingnoth1n

SPCDRI said:


> What a load of bull, that sports argument. Oh look, people decided to play baseball, hockey and basketball in professional leagues for the first time ever in 2019!
> 
> It is a preference cascade. Its a psychological bank run on the programming. All these "worst viewership ever" discussions on the internet are giving people permission to stop watching. "Wait, a million people stopped watching this? Why do I have my emotional money in the WWE bank! I'm withdrawing it!"
> 
> Then what do you get? More record low ratings information, more people getting hip to that, "Hey, I'm not the only one!"
> 
> WWE for a long time had that sort of See You Next Monday/Tuesday/Friday aura to them because it seemed no matter how bad the product was perceived to be, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5+ million people were going to watch it and you were the weird one if you didn't.
> 
> I do think Brock Lesnar having the top belt in the company for almost 900 days and doing basically nothing with it and elevating nobody with it is part of why there is the mass exit for the doors. That devalued every male wrestler in the company, same with Rousey being champ for a year, dropping the belt on a fluke and leaving the company. The past 3 years has led to the whole roster feeling Midcard for Life. This is further reinforced by AJ Styles being booked as less important to other people on Smackdown like Daniel Bryan and the McMahons and Triple H and Rollins holding the IC belt for so long in a lot of people's minds, that is his level. Daniel Bryan out with an injury is the cherry on top of the sundae.


You don't have to like it but its likely the truth that 2-300k wrestling/sports fans tuned in for that game last night; I know I did after the first 30 minutes. Or I can blame shitty Becky and Kofi. Whichever you want to prefer in your mind.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

I said it on the RAW ratings thread so I'll say it here again.

They *have* to get the belts off Becky at this point. The experiment failed. I said it in January that if they fucked Becky up leading to Mania (they did, far beyond my expectations), the payoff will be minimal or even non-existent. 

Instead of allowing the women to naturally progress to get more prominence and create stories where the push for a women's main event at Mania would have been earned and justified, they doubled down and force fed the fans bullshit and nonsense about an Evolution that was manufactured and phony all for the sake of identity politics and "progressive" philanthropy. The fans can't even give it the rightful criticism and complaints about it without wrongfully being labeled "sexist", "misogynistic", or whatever empty word people use to instill public fear.

Calm down, the women aren't solely at fault here. Seems like Rollins is going to have another mediocre World (Universal) title reign that pushes people away. He simply is not a guy to build a brand, let alone a company, around. He just isn't. He can be an integral player but not *the* player. Also, as much as I enjoyed and loved the moment, the reality has sunk in with Kofi as well. He isn't a World title worthy player. The spot should have gone to Big E (who is injured anyways so whatever).

This company is awful right now. Yeah, we say that every year in recent memory and they are that bad but this something else. It's truly awful right now and I don't think there is an answer to a short term fix it this time. FOX in October sure as fuck won't.

:heston


----------



## kingnoth1n

WINNING said:


> I said it on the RAW ratings thread so I'll say it here again.
> 
> They *have* to get the belts off Becky at this point. The experiment failed. I said it in January that if they fucked Becky up leading to Mania (they did, far beyond my expectations), the payoff will be minimal or even non-existent.
> 
> Instead of allowing the women to naturally progress to get more prominence and create stories where the push for a women's main event at Mania would have been earned and justified, they doubled down and force fed the fans bullshit and nonsense about an Evolution that was manufactured and phony all for the sake of identity politics and "progressive" philanthropy. The fans can't even give it the rightful criticism and complaints about it without wrongfully being labeled "sexist", "misogynistic", or whatever empty word people use to instill public fear.
> 
> Calm down, the women aren't solely at fault here. Seems like Rollins is going to have another mediocre World (Universal) title reign that pushes people away. He simply is not a guy to build a brand, let alone a company, around. He just isn't. He can be an integral player but not *the* player. Also, as much as I enjoyed and loved the moment, the reality has sunk in with Kofi as well. He isn't a World title worthy player. The spot should have gone to Big E (who is injured anyways so whatever).
> 
> This company is awful right now. Yeah, we say that every year in recent memory and they are that bad but this something else. It's truly awful right now and I don't think there is an answer to a short term fix it this time. FOX in October sure as fuck won't.
> 
> :heston


Great post, I appreciate it. What really hurts the company from going this route and depushing the "womens revolution," is the extremely heavy amount of virtue signaling that these girls have been doing on social media. I think it would lead to some pretty extreme backlash from the snowflake portion of the audience, which they don't need.


----------



## SPCDRI

WON/Bryan Alvarez are saying FOX wants 3.3 million viewers for Smackdown. Good luck coming up with another million viewers in 5 months.


----------



## Jedah

They're fucked. Even with the greater reach of a network as opposed to cable, they're fucked. Wouldn't be surprised if they're sent to FS1 as soon as the Holidays.

Raw is going to continue to do worse and that's what will largely determine SD's ratings. SD could be an amazing show and it still wouldn't matter if Raw is garbage.


----------



## Erik.

Since Wrestlemania:

Raw has lost 766,000 viewers in 3 weeks.
Smackdown has lost 366,000 viewers in 3 weeks.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

SPCDRI said:


> WON/Bryan Alvarez are saying FOX wants 3.3 million viewers for Smackdown. Good luck coming up with another million viewers in 5 months.


There's only one man who can spark those numbers these days (and no I don't mean Becky Lynch) I'm talking about DA MAN


----------



## jeffatron

Doesn't matter whose on top, you could have austin and rock and after a few weeks, it be same old bad rating. The product is just such SHIT. Stories don't make sense, no continuity , and most of all, NO CLIFFHANGERS. There's literally never a sense omg what will happen next week? Just same old shit, every week.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Ace said:


> Where is my homeboy @BOSS of Bel-Air @?


*I think you meant to tag Kofi and KO fans because Roman is nowhere near the title right now. Check on AJ who couldn't do shit for RAW after going straight to the title picture.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Why are there even fan wars on here? :CENA

You'll still get these shitty ratings no matter who's on top.


----------



## Mongstyle

The big turning point is WM34.

If you look at the ratings decline, it accelerate big time starting from WM34 onward. I suspect this is because they didn't pull the trigger on Reigns and put Raw into a holding pattern for months. (If you think back to post Mania last year, you'll realize Raw actually actually no real stories going on for months until Summerslam). The second big decline, and it's very noticeable, is immediately after Reigns announced his cancer announcement, and they once again, put the belt on Brock. This, once again, put Raw into a holding pattern of sorts, and frankly, Rollins was the wrong guy to get behind.

Why? Because my dude been a main event guy for 4 years. It's the same old shit. And he's never been a big enough deal in the first place. They needed to freshen things up and make the product seem different, but they didn't. And for the first time, they didn't even get the Mania bump. Now since October, the shows have been focused around the same people (Rollins, Becky, Styles etc).

What has changed? Nothing. We're still doing the same song and dance, with the same people, and that's obviously not interesting. It's boring and stale.

Here's the thing, there was actually no issue with Brock's reign in 2017. It was a solid reign and Raw was good TV for most of the year. They actually built a bunch of stories and it worked mostly. The problem is, there was an end point. But WWE dropped the ball big time starting early 2018, and it's now hurting them massively. They didn't pull the trigger and change things up starting at WM34. That should've been a turning point after which they introduced new guys into the main event and freshened things up.

They didn't, and they've been hurting since. They can probably slow this decline, but it ain't happening by doing the same old "let's give this guy a 6 month reign" and whatever. They need to stop being complacent, and start mixing things up.

Make the titles switch. Get more guys involved in the title picture to help it feel different. Make someone like Balor turn heel so you've got something new going on, and maybe give him a faction. Point is, refresh. You need to change things up. It won't fix things overnight, but some clear changes and getting some consistency to the booking will go a long way and help them recover down the line.

Who is going to be interested when everyone is just kind of expecting Rollins and Kofi are holding onto their titles for the next 4 months, and we're just doing a bunch of boring ass filler feuds? They've done a bad thing in the last several years (since around 2012 or so) where they seem to intentionally hold off on meaningful stuff for certain shows. You're basically signalling to people that shit doesn't matter until these periods. That's a bad thing.

Look back at 2005. Orton flopped. They got behind Batista. You had Batista/Triple H feuding in the main event, meanwhile Hogan returned right after Mania to team with HBK, then you had a huge HIAC, a draft taking place over 4 weeks, a big HBK/Hogan match at Summerslam, then Raw and Smackdown facing off. There was something going on constantly.

If that was today, Hogan would return and team with HBK at Summerslam, and they would somehow drag the feud out until Mania. This is also why you don't have as many memorable rivalries today. Because they're always holding them back and not doing them when they should. Or doing a random one month feuds that do no one any favors.


----------



## ClintDagger

jeffatron said:


> Doesn't matter whose on top, you could have austin and rock and after a few weeks, it be same old bad rating. The product is just such SHIT. Stories don't make sense, no continuity , and most of all, NO CLIFFHANGERS. There's literally never a sense omg what will happen next week? Just same old shit, every week.


Nah. That’s going too far. Austin and Rock being back would boost the ratings. Wouldn’t get to 5 million or anything but it would go up noticeably. Not to mention that Austin & Rock have the clout to not let themselves be booked stupidly. That’s one of the biggest issues of the last 15 years, non of the regular stars can do anything but eat shit & like it when it comes to how they’re portrayed.


----------



## jeffatron

ClintDagger said:


> Nah. That’s going too far. Austin and Rock being back would boost the ratings. Wouldn’t get to 5 million or anything but it would go up noticeably. Not to mention that Austin & Rock have the clout to not let themselves be booked stupidly. That’s one of the biggest issues of the last 15 years, non of the regular stars can do anything but eat shit & like it when it comes to how they’re portrayed.


Let me rephrase. Ratings would defo go up short term. My point was that even IF they had those guys, long term, with the PG bullshit, and the complete lack of anything interesting, I think people would just give up. They'd be booked ok I'm sure like you said, but they'd still be ultra nerfed as far as what they can say, do, etc...They censor Austin's double birds nowadays even, that's how sad it's gotten...

I agree with you on your last point as well, no one is allowed to be cool at all anymore. booking or character wise. Hell, the second Becky got any sort of badass 
attitude that got over, it was back to shitty babyface promos almost instantly.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

SPCDRI said:


> WON/Bryan Alvarez are saying FOX wants 3.3 million viewers for Smackdown. Good luck coming up with another million viewers in 5 months.


:duck:heston:mj4

They'll get close in the first month but they will not hold it consistently, even if they change a few things.

Screenshot this. SD moves to FS1 after Mania 36.


----------



## ClintDagger

Something that doesn’t get mentioned regarding Roman is how quickly he returned after WWE seemed to give the impression that he was up against a very long fight. Right, wrong, or indifferent... I think that raised a lot of eyebrows and turned people off. Hence Roman is pretty ice cold as people aren’t heartily behind him nor do they want to boo him unmercifully like before.


----------



## Adam Cool

DammitC said:


> Why are there even fan wars on here? :CENA
> 
> You'll still get these shitty ratings no matter who's on top.


Because due to people having different tastes they want different people on top, so when the ratings drop they blame it on the wrestlers they don't like as a coping mechanism that if only the peoppe they liked were on top/the people they didn't like weren't on top the ratings would be better


----------



## The Wood

raymond1985 said:


> Jedah said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have zero basis to make that claim. It would be the exact same, if not worse. What remaining fans WWE has are all sick to death of Brock and realize what a disaster his reign was.
> 
> 
> 
> Brock has had a relatively positive impact on TV ratings compared to his peers over the years. He brings an air of legitimacy to the product that others do not.
> 
> It was WWE's fault for allowing a part-timer to hold the belt. The booking for deciding that he should do so. The roster for not providing a viable alternative.
Click to expand...

This. And Jedah, I don’t think it’s fair you say someone has zero basis for a claim when you’re making suppositional statements too. We don’t have any evidence the ratings would drop as quickly without Brock. We only have evidence it is happening under Becky/Rollins. 



Fearless Viper said:


> Remember when everyone crucified Jinder for being a ratings killer but then when Styles, Bryan and now Kofi couldn't get the ratings up then suddenly they claimed no wrestlers should be expected to draw ratings? Good times.


Actually, Styles did get the ratings up. Jinder was a bad champion. 



kingnoth1n said:


> SPCDRI said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a load of bull, that sports argument. Oh look, people decided to play baseball, hockey and basketball in professional leagues for the first time ever in 2019!
> 
> It is a preference cascade. Its a psychological bank run on the programming. All these "worst viewership ever" discussions on the internet are giving people permission to stop watching. "Wait, a million people stopped watching this? Why do I have my emotional money in the WWE bank! I'm withdrawing it!"
> 
> Then what do you get? More record low ratings information, more people getting hip to that, "Hey, I'm not the only one!"
> 
> WWE for a long time had that sort of See You Next Monday/Tuesday/Friday aura to them because it seemed no matter how bad the product was perceived to be, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5+ million people were going to watch it and you were the weird one if you didn't.
> 
> I do think Brock Lesnar having the top belt in the company for almost 900 days and doing basically nothing with it and elevating nobody with it is part of why there is the mass exit for the doors. That devalued every male wrestler in the company, same with Rousey being champ for a year, dropping the belt on a fluke and leaving the company. The past 3 years has led to the whole roster feeling Midcard for Life. This is further reinforced by AJ Styles being booked as less important to other people on Smackdown like Daniel Bryan and the McMahons and Triple H and Rollins holding the IC belt for so long in a lot of people's minds, that is his level. Daniel Bryan out with an injury is the cherry on top of the sundae.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to like it but its likely the truth that 2-300k wrestling/sports fans tuned in for that game last night; I know I did after the first 30 minutes. Or I can blame shitty Becky and Kofi. Whichever you want to prefer in your mind.
Click to expand...

Lol, I love the “there’s something people would rather be watching excuse.” That’s kind of the point of ratings.


----------



## llj

The Wood said:


> I see your point with this, to a degree. Austin wouldn't be around in this. But the thing is, Rock actually did make a difference in 2011-2013 (at least where WrestleManias were concerned). There are definitely issues with staleness and the formula. I like the term "preference cascade," thanks for sharing that. That's a good phrase to describe what seems to be going on.


Well, The Rock had better make a difference seeing as he's probably one of the top 5 biggest male movie stars in the world right now.

I agree with Jedah that the booking today wouldn't help. Imagine Stone Cold losing to people below him clean, or losing to geeks, or struggling in a handicap match against Shelton Benjamin and Zack Ryder. Or Stone Cold on crutches and apologizing to the McMahons without stunnering them. That would happen today.


----------



## .christopher.

Roman Reigns lol. The guy is absolute trash. They buried the entire roster and Lesnar for the WOAT.

Not that Kofimania helps.


----------



## .christopher.

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I think you meant to tag Kofi and KO fans because Roman is nowhere near the title right now. Check on AJ who couldn't do shit for RAW after going straight to the title picture.*


you never cease to make me laugh. Never stop fanboying for the WOAT.


----------



## ShadowCounter

SPCDRI said:


> WON/Bryan Alvarez are saying FOX wants 3.3 million viewers for Smackdown. Good luck coming up with another million viewers in 5 months.


They're fist up the ass with no lube fucked. Keep in mind this "transition" will be happening as the XFL will be drawing most if not all of Vince's attention...although that could be a blessing now that I think about it.


----------



## SPCDRI

FOX signed the deal with the understanding that moving to network television and a large advertising blitz should bring Smackdown ratings up 25 to 35 percent from where they were last year. 

I'll let you be the judge of how likely that is. If Smackdown is doing 3.5 million viewers after Christmas, I don't know what other wacky, improbable thing will happen. Maybe monkeys will fly out of our butts.


----------



## The Wood

llj said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see your point with this, to a degree. Austin wouldn't be around in this. But the thing is, Rock actually did make a difference in 2011-2013 (at least where WrestleManias were concerned). There are definitely issues with staleness and the formula. I like the term "preference cascade," thanks for sharing that. That's a good phrase to describe what seems to be going on.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, The Rock had better make a difference seeing as he's probably one of the top 5 biggest male movie stars in the world right now.
> 
> I agree with Jedah that the booking today wouldn't help. Imagine Stone Cold losing to people below him clean, or losing to geeks, or struggling in a handicap match against Shelton Benjamin and Zack Ryder. Or Stone Cold on crutches and apologizing to the McMahons without stunnering them. That would happen today.
Click to expand...

Theoretically, this isn’t wrong, but the thing about people like Austin is that they wouldn’t have allowed it. I mean, different times, so this is all hypothetical, but Austin is more like a Brock, who nixed working with Shane because Shane’s work looks shit. 

Talent being so complacent is one thing I do think they need to take a little blame for. Sure, arguing with Vince is likely to get you into shit, but Bryan called shots like not going to Saudi Arabia, and Joe manages to present himself like a star, even when his booking makes him completely functional. When a dude like Seth Rollins comes off like “just a dude”, I kind of think that he’s got to wear a little of that. Top stars can go to bat for themselves a little more. 



SPCDRI said:


> FOX signed the deal with the understanding that moving to network television and a large advertising blitz should bring Smackdown ratings up 25 to 35 percent from where they were last year.
> 
> I'll let you be the judge of how likely that is. If Smackdown is doing 3.5 million viewers after Christmas, I don't know what other wacky, improbable thing will happen. Maybe monkeys will fly out of our butts.


It’s traditionally a bad time for WWE. They’ve also been very unsuccessful at retaining viewers that show initial interest. Obviously network TV opens up their potential market, but the trends for WWE (losing 40% of younger viewers, for example) paint the picture that it is very unlikely the cultural appeal is there. I don’t see how them moving to FOX, on a Friday, is going to suddenly open up gateways that USA Network audiences have openly rejected.


----------



## llj

The Wood said:


> Theoretically, this isn’t wrong, but the thing about people like Austin is that they wouldn’t have allowed it. I mean, different times, so this is all hypothetical, but Austin is more like a Brock, who nixed working with Shane because Shane’s work looks shit.
> 
> Talent being so complacent is one thing I do think they need to take a little blame for. Sure, arguing with Vince is likely to get you into shit, but Bryan called shots like not going to Saudi Arabia, and Joe manages to present himself like a star, even when his booking makes him completely functional. When a dude like Seth Rollins comes off like “just a dude”, I kind of think that he’s got to wear a little of that. Top stars can go to bat for themselves a little more.


Certainly that is a possibility. And reading Seth's interview he comes across as an "Oh well" type of guy.

Having said that, there is Ambrose. Someone who is very much his own person with his own drum. Even he had to tone it down for the company when I'm sure he must have explored many ways of protecting or improving his character better. Remember the threads in here calling him complacent just 6 months ago during his heel run? I'm sure he wanted to do better. Obviously he was unsuccessful in protecting his personal brand in the WWE so he just left when his contract was up.


----------



## The Wood

llj said:


> Certainly that is a possibility. And reading Seth's interview he comes across as an "Oh well" type of guy.
> 
> Having said that, there is Ambrose. Someone who is very much his own person with his own drum. Even he had to tone it down for the company when I'm sure he must have explored many ways of protecting or improving his character better. Remember the threads in here calling him complacent just 6 months ago during his heel run? I'm sure he wanted to do better. Obviously he was unsuccessful in protecting his personal brand in the WWE so he just left when his contract was up.


Well, yeah, that's true. I mean, Ambrose didn't help himself at certain times either (the Austin podcast and around WrestleMania 32 spring to mind). I guess it's entirely speculative.


----------



## Roxinius

Just saw that smackdown is going to have to pull 3 million viewers a week to avoid getting axed on fox Vince may aswell hand that money back because with him running the show that will never happen


----------



## ClintDagger

Roxinius said:


> Just saw that smackdown is going to have to pull 3 million viewers a week to avoid getting axed on fox Vince may aswell hand that money back because with him running the show that will never happen


Wow, yeah that’s not happening.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> There's only one man who can spark those numbers these days (and no I don't mean Becky Lynch) I'm talking about DA MAN


I don't know about that. I mean, for a week or two, sure, but not if he's a regular on the show. And he certainly isn't wrestling every week.

Goldberg's great for a bump, but not for sustainable ratings.


SmackDown will likely get some kind of bump if they're on Fox network proper. Last Man Standing gets over 4 million viewers on Fridays weekly and WWE is bringing its built in audience (who sticks around, for some reason). 3 million isn't impossible for them.

But, all of it is contingent on WWE actually putting on a good show that doesn't drive viewers away. They haven't proven themselves capable of that in, like, half a decade.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 5/7/19 Vs 4/30/19 ):
1.931M Vs 1.833M ( + 0.098M / + 5.35% )
0.580D Vs 0.540D

SDL Vs RAW:
1.931M Vs 2.244M ( - 0.313M / 86.05% )
0.580D Vs 0.720D*

*Note: SDL is 4th by demo & 11th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 5/7/19 Vs 5/8/18 ):
1.931M Vs 2.293M ( - 0.362M / - 15.79% )
0.580D Vs 0.710D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.293M Vs 2.689M ( - 0.396M / 85.27% )
0.710D Vs 0.897D

Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 10th by viewership.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Slightly up, kinda like Raw. But second straight week below 2 million.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

They hit the panic button (wildcard) for a dozen extra viewers. Stick a fork in WWE. They are done with Vince in charge.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

_*Damn, that rating is not fucking good. 1.9 at the end of the show. Wow, another week of the low for Smackdown Live. Yeah, panic button will continue with the wild card bullshit. I agree with @Showstopper ; & @nWo4Lyfe420 ; . Vince is really going to have to either combine the rosters or try to be creative in which the the later I don't see happening. :mj4*_


----------



## Fearless Viper

Almost exactly like last year in terms of position ranking and demos.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

:bryanlol


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Bryan returns on both shows and the ratings go up. Coincidence? I think not.

Bryan needs both belts

#Danny3Belts

:yes


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

lol - well Vince, try something else.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

86.1% RAW retention. More often than not, SDL hits 80+% 

:hmmm I've said this before but it seems like Smackdown's rating is dependent on how well RAW does. Maybe the change of networks can alter this relationship.


----------



## Jedah

Much like Monday, all that sleight of hand shit for a bee sting of a bump.

Someone needs to stick a fork in Vince. He's done. Go home, geezer. For the sake of your damn company, go.


----------



## The Wood

The thing is, people are going to get used to this too. The WWE don't have stars they can advertise that are going to bring in viewers on their own, so they're banking on the surprise, but soon it will all dilute together and people will realize there is nothing that can make them care. This is also going to hurt SmackDown house shows on Monday, because people aren't going to know if their favorite talent is going to be there. So maybe the plan is to scrap them going forward? 

These all feel like temporary solutions, and nothing that is going to be able to edge the ratings up and up. They've also already changed the rules so many times that I don't think anyone takes them seriously on this at all.


----------



## llj

1.9. Up from 1.8. This is akin to being shot by a bazooka and saying "Wait, I think I can still feel my arm."


----------



## Lenny Leonard

This was the live attendance of the past smackdown


----------



## .christopher.

Lenny Leonard said:


> This was the live attendance of the past smackdown


Kofimania and acquiring WOAT Reigns reviving the blue brand I see.


----------



## The Wood

I don't know how these people can feel like stars going out there into half-empty arenas.


----------



## llj

The Wood said:


> I don't know how these people can feel like stars going out there into half-empty arenas.


They probably don't, which is why there are no stars anymore. It's hard to fake being a star when an entire half of the arena is empty.


----------



## The Wood

That's very true. It's also hard to draw a full arena without any stars. We're stuck in this.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 5/14/19 Vs 5/7/19 ):
1.827M Vs 1.931M ( - 0.104M / - 5.39% )
0.560D Vs 0.580D

SDL Vs RAW:
1.827M Vs 2.349M ( - 0.522M / 77.78% )
0.560D Vs 0.803D*

*Note: SDL is 6th by demo & 12th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 5/14/19 Vs 5/15/18 ):
1.827M Vs 2.298M ( - 0.471M / - 20.50% )
0.560D Vs 0.700D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.298M Vs 2.741M ( - 0.443M / 83.84% )
0.700D Vs 0.897D

Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 8th by viewership.*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Kofi gave the ratings the Boom Drop. :kofi


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Smackdown Ratings continue to drop and this is not going to be good for the rest of the summer.


----------



## rbl85

Ouch


----------



## ClintDagger

It seems like with the Wild Card thing they are making Raw slightly more watchable and SD slightly less watchable. So in aggregate, it’s a wash. Which if you think about it, makes sense.


----------



## rbl85

ClintDagger said:


> It seems like with the Wild Card thing they are making Raw slightly more watchable and SD slightly less watchable. So in aggregate, it’s a wash. Which if you think about it, makes sense.


Well RAW didn't had any competition.

I'm betting that next Week RAW numbers are going down.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *Viewership & Demo ( 5/14/19 Vs 5/7/19 ):
> 1.827M Vs 1.931M ( - 0.104M / - 5.39% )
> 0.560D Vs 0.580D
> 
> SDL Vs RAW:
> 1.827M Vs 2.349M ( - 0.522M / 77.78% )
> 0.560D Vs 0.803D*
> 
> *Note: SDL is 6th by demo & 12th by viewership.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Viewership & Demo ( 5/14/19 Vs 5/15/18 ):
> 1.827M Vs 2.298M ( - 0.471M / - 20.50% )
> 0.560D Vs 0.700D
> 
> SDL Vs RAW:
> 2.298M Vs 2.741M ( - 0.443M / 83.84% )
> 0.700D Vs 0.897D
> 
> Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 8th by viewership.*


*-Lowest ever SDL viewership and 2nd lowest ever SD viewership and 3rd lowest ever SD demo. 
-Lowest ever viewership and demo is Thanksgiving 15' SD's 1.652M (-0.175M) and 0.460D (-0.100D).*


----------



## llj




----------



## ClintDagger

rbl85 said:


> Well RAW didn't had any competition.
> 
> I'm betting that next Week RAW numbers are going down.


There’s some truth to that, but based on ratings trends I don’t think there’s that much crossover between WWE fans and the NFL / NBA anymore.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

NBA destroyed WWE and even the NHL beat them. Tough night and next week RAW will get a drubbing by the Warriors.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

THE MAN said:


> NBA destroyed WWE and even the NHL beat them. Tough night and next week RAW will get a drubbing by the Warriors.


Funny thing is that The Man :becky wasn't even here while Lacey got a package and Charlotte did a promo, so many boring moments from last night's show. Due to spoilers, even that didn't convince me to stay tuned. If this continues to happen then Fox might have to consider changing a lot of things. Same for USA. Smackdown is dying slowly. But if you ask me it's time to merge the Woman's and Tag Division.


----------



## rbl85

Merge the division and even less wrestlers will a chance to do Something.


----------



## llj

There is no answer, it's too late for that now. The only thing they can do is take the beating that will continue to come for them. Vince may yet live long enough to see his company crash and burn. It may take 5, 10 years. But as long as he's at the helm these numbers will continue to plummet. So that means it will be a LONNNNG slow death.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> Funny thing is that The Man :becky wasn't even here while Lacey got a package and Charlotte did a promo, so many boring moments from last night's show. Due to spoilers, even that didn't convince me to stay tuned. If this continues to happen then Fox might have to consider changing a lot of things. Same for USA. Smackdown is dying slowly. But if you ask me it's time to merge the Woman's and Tag Division.


But The Man was there for the RTWM, which had record low viewership. She was the lasting image of WM 35. The post-WM RAW didn't even get over 3M viewers. To her credit she sells a ton of merchandise. But her push hasn't brought in new viewers or even maintained them. The big indicator for Becky's push was during that 2 week stretch in February where WWE focused the show around her and The Authority. The average rating for the two shows was 2.486. They make a change to the WM Main Event and the rating goes up despite many thinking it wouldn't. The average number for the next three weeks was 2.864. They announce the Women will be in the main event and the rating drops to its lowest point in five weeks for the 3/25 RAW.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

The Boy Wonder said:


> But The Man was there for the RTWM, which had record low viewership. She was the lasting image of WM 35. The post-WM RAW didn't even get over 3M viewers. To her credit she sells a ton of merchandise. But her push hasn't brought in new viewers or even maintained them. The big indicator for Becky's push was during that 2 week stretch in February where WWE focused the show around her and The Authority. The average rating for the two shows was 2.486. They make a change to the WM Main Event and the rating goes up despite many thinking it wouldn't. The average number for the next three weeks was 2.864. They announce the Women will be in the main event and the rating drops to its lowest point in five weeks for the 3/25 RAW.


I'm not talking about RTWM, I am taking about right now. As in what are they going to do now. Sure, blame it all on Becky when Vince gave her so many stupid things and so many dumb things in the RTWM but go ahead.


----------



## ClintDagger

The Boy Wonder said:


> But The Man was there for the RTWM, which had record low viewership. She was the lasting image of WM 35. The post-WM RAW didn't even get over 3M viewers. To her credit she sells a ton of merchandise. But her push hasn't brought in new viewers or even maintained them. The big indicator for Becky's push was during that 2 week stretch in February where WWE focused the show around her and The Authority. The average rating for the two shows was 2.486. They make a change to the WM Main Event and the rating goes up despite many thinking it wouldn't. The average number for the next three weeks was 2.864. They announce the Women will be in the main event and the rating drops to its lowest point in five weeks for the 3/25 RAW.


Great post. It really highlights a point I’ve been making for a long time. Which is, as much as people like to say “nobody draws”—that completely ignores a new phenomenon that we’ve seen in recent years which are “anti-draws”. Which means people that if you feature them too much or put them too high on the card you end up with a tune out factor. Becky is clearly talented, she definitely has rabid fans that buy a ton of merch. But she’s not someone you want to feature if you’re looking to maximize the audience because there’s a large section that will tune out.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

What if the ratings decline isn't about how good or bad (bad, in this case) the WWE product is? What if the wrestling business is evolving again in terms of a 'weekly episodic' (as WWE loves to call Raw and SD) wrestling show is just passe? What if the business evolved again right before our very eyes? Because I'm starting to think even if WWE was a great product right now and was alot of fun for everyone to watch, that the ratings would still be declining.

It's something that's been in the back of my head for awhile now as a possibility, and I have to admit I'm starting to believe it more and more everyday. And it's not even a good thing or a bad thing. But just a the business has taken a different direction thing and it's now up to WWE to find what is the right way to present their weekly product. Now, I know Raw and SD are both under TV contracts for the next 5 years and it's too much money to pass up. But it just may be that it's time for wrestling companies to present their product in a different way. I'm not going to pretend I know what that next step/direction is. Maybe it's a streaming thing going forward, I have no idea. But I'm starting to think that even if the product was clicking on all cylinders right now that the ratings might only be slightly better than they are at best.


----------



## troubleman1218

rbl85 said:


> Merge the division and even less wrestlers will a chance to do Something.


Why do people always use this myth to justify the Brand Split? If WWE wants to push you then they will find a way to push you. 

We have a Brand Split and we STILL get the same people in the main event scene (same thing happened with the first Brand Split). RAW and SmackDown have plenty of Tag Teams but yet they always use the same 3 Tag Teams on each show. Women's Division, same thing.

Every time WWE pushes a new superstar to the Main Event scene and give them a World Title, it is always someone who we don't like or they always shit on them.


----------



## rbl85

troubleman1218 said:


> Why do people always use this myth to justify the Brand Split? If WWE wants to push you then they will find a way to push you.
> 
> We have a Brand Split and we STILL get the same people in the main event scene (same thing happened with the first Brand Split). RAW and SmackDown have plenty of Tag Teams but yet they always use the same 3 Tag Teams on each show. Women's Division, same thing.
> 
> Every time WWE pushes a new superstar to the Main Event scene and give them a World Title, it is always someone who we don't like or they always shit on them.


End the brand split and the same wrestlers will appear on both show.


----------



## Ace

Lmfao

Where's that NWO guy to blame AJ and Seth for this record low? :lmao

One night of no playoff NBA and suddenly Corbin and Lacey are draws fpalm


----------



## Randy Lahey

There is no way Smackdown stays on Fox. They’ll be on FS1 or cancelled. You cant be bringing with you 1.8 mil viewers to a major network and expect to stay on a Friday nights. 

Still shocked Fox thought wrestling was “in” again. Doing 52 weeks of American Idol or America’s Got Talent would destroy wrestling.


----------



## Ace

1.8m lmfao :heston :lmao :ha


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

1.8 :lol Kofi is a draw am I right guys?


----------



## DammitChrist

deathvalleydriver2 said:


> 1.8 :lol Kofi is a draw am I right guys?


Implying that Kofi Kingston is responsible for Vince's failures :mj4


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

DammitC said:


> Implying that Kofi Kingston is responsible for Vince's failures :mj4


Blame Roman instead. :reigns2


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

This is what happens when you make a 130 pound comedy jobber into a superman world champ.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Ace said:


> Lmfao
> 
> Where's that NWO guy to blame AJ and Seth for this record low? :lmao
> 
> One night of no playoff NBA and suddenly Corbin and Lacey are draws fpalm


Lacey and Baron were booked strong on Raw and ratings went up. Coincidence? I think not.

And I don't believe there is much (if any) overlap between the NBA audience and the current WWE audience.


----------



## ClintDagger

Showstopper said:


> What if the ratings decline isn't about how good or bad (bad, in this case) the WWE product is? What if the wrestling business is evolving again in terms of a 'weekly episodic' (as WWE loves to call Raw and SD) wrestling show is just passe? What if the business evolved again right before our very eyes? Because I'm starting to think even if WWE was a great product right now and was alot of fun for everyone to watch, that the ratings would still be declining.
> 
> It's something that's been in the back of my head for awhile now as a possibility, and I have to admit I'm starting to believe it more and more everyday. And it's not even a good thing or a bad thing. But just a the business has taken a different direction thing and it's now up to WWE to find what is the right way to present their weekly product. Now, I know Raw and SD are both under TV contracts for the next 5 years and it's too much money to pass up. But it just may be that it's time for wrestling companies to present their product in a different way. I'm not going to pretend I know what that next step/direction is. Maybe it's a streaming thing going forward, I have no idea. But I'm starting to think that even if the product was clicking on all cylinders right now that the ratings might only be slightly better than they are at best.


I definitely think there is something to what you are saying. Some amount of the drop over the last 15+ years in popularity is because wrestling as a product has gone through its full life cycle and now is in the twilight of that cycle. But if that were the only reason the drop would be slow and steady. The huge drops we’ve seen recently are because there are fans that want to watch WWE, but what they are getting is missing the mark so badly that they are leaving prematurely.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> This is what happens when you make a 130 pound comedy jobber into a superman world champ.


Actually Kofi Kingston weights 212 pounds. Nice try and nice try on blaming him for the shit ratings. We get that you hate him and dislike him, but please be real here for once. fpalm


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> Actually Kofi Kingston weights 212 pounds. Nice try and nice try on blaming him for the shit ratings. We get that you hate him and dislike him, but please be real here for once. fpalm


1. BS if he weighs 212. That's his billed weight. He has no chest and he's built like a twig.

2. SD has been built around him for over a month. He buried Orton, he buried The Bar, he buried DB, he buried Sami, he's about to bury KO. Fans are tired of seeing a walking stick squash everyone. People liked him as a comedy act. Not as a world champion.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> 1. BS if he weighs 212. That's his billed weight. He has no chest and he's built like a twig.
> 
> 2. SD has been built around him for over a month. He buried Orton, he buried The Bar, he buried DB, he buried Sami, he's about to bury KO. Fans are tired of seeing a walking stick squash everyone. People liked him as a comedy act. Not as a world champion.


The reason he doesn't have much muscle mas on chest is because he has a medical condition. 

2. He was booked to look strong against Daniel Bryan in the Road To WM. He went over Orton which was a big shock factor. His title defense with DB and Sami was decent. He may have went over them but he didn't bury them either. They were booked strong in defeat. He is not going to bury Kevin Owens either. Know what the term buried means before ever replying to me. 

You don't have to watch his matches or his program. Like it or not, he is our WWE Champion in this company. Fans? Who is these fans? Not everyone is on wrestling forums. The majority of the crowd still loves him and still cheers him on no matter what act he does. Keep staying bitter while some us try to enjoy his reign.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> The reason he doesn't have much muscle mas on chest is because he has a medical condition.
> 
> 2. He was booked to look strong against Daniel Bryan in the Road To WM. He went over Orton which was a big shock factor. His title defense with DB and Sami was decent. He may have went over them but he didn't bury them either. They were booked strong in defeat. He is not going to bury Kevin Owens either. Know what the term buried means before ever replying to me.
> 
> You don't have to watch his matches or his program. Like it or not, he is our WWE Champion in this company. Fans? Who is these fans? Not everyone is on wrestling forums. The majority of the crowd still loves him and still cheers him on no matter what act he does. Keep staying bitter while some us try to enjoy his reign.


Bro, you can't be booked strong when a mid-carder is kicking out of your finishers over and over again. It makes DB and Sami look like jokes with weak finishers that can't put a comedy act away.

Kofi wasn't even on the radar to be a title contender a few months ago. He only got a spot at EC because Ali got hurt. He wasn't considered a top 6 guy on SD before that match and now he's beating the entire roster clean.

This is the most ridiculous shit I've seen since Sheamus went from getting punked by Yoshi Tatsu on ECW one week to beating Cena for the belt a month later.


----------



## ClintDagger

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> 1. BS if he weighs 212. That's his billed weight. He has no chest and he's built like a twig.
> 
> 2. SD has been built around him for over a month. He buried Orton, he buried The Bar, he buried DB, he buried Sami, he's about to bury KO. Fans are tired of seeing a walking stick squash everyone. People liked him as a comedy act. Not as a world champion.


I stood right next to Kofi the week before RR in street clothes. He’s probably legit 5’11” 180 lbs. 185 if I’m being extremely generous.


----------



## Y.2.J

1.8m.........

fucking yikes.


----------



## Jedah

NBA and all but still, Vince is so beyond done. He needs to be forcibly removed for the sake of his own company (but he won't, which is why many investors don't like buying companies with majority shareholders).


----------



## The XL 2

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> Actually Kofi Kingston weights 212 pounds. Nice try and nice try on blaming him for the shit ratings. We get that you hate him and dislike him, but please be real here for once. fpalm


Zero chance he weights that much. He's probably 160-165lbs. He's also not 6 feet tall, hes probably 5'10


----------



## WindPhoenix

The likely reason why ratings are going down is because the weekly shows are so bloated. They don't give you anything to look forward to for the next ppv or even next week. Most of the characters are bad and the great matches happen too often on T.v. The builds and stories are usually bad.


----------



## Bxstr

This is what happens when you push a chestless skinny jobber in the main event. 
But im sure people will try to spin it and blame it on roman :ha


----------



## troubleman1218

rbl85 said:


> End the brand split and the same wrestlers will appear on both show.


1. If WWE is serious about a certain talent then will make an effort to use them consistently. 
2. Fox isn't going to let WWE slack off on SmackDown like SyFy did a few years ago. 
3. The main talent that is going to feel left out are the talents that fans don't give a crap about anyway. Are you really going to miss seeing someone like No Way Jose on TV? 
4. Three Hours of RAW and Two Hours of SmackDown is more than enough time to use everybody. RAW being 3 Hours with a Split roster was a stupid idea in the first place.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> Actually Kofi Kingston weights 212 pounds. Nice try and nice try on blaming him for the shit ratings. We get that you hate him and dislike him, but please be real here for once. fpalm


If you think Kofi is 200 pounds you better have a good excuse for such a dumb statement. Partial blindness?


----------



## Piper's Pit

Showstopper said:


> What if the ratings decline isn't about how good or bad (bad, in this case) the WWE product is? What if the wrestling business is evolving again in terms of a 'weekly episodic' (as WWE loves to call Raw and SD) wrestling show is just passe? What if the business evolved again right before our very eyes? Because I'm starting to think even if WWE was a great product right now and was alot of fun for everyone to watch, that the ratings would still be declining.
> 
> It's something that's been in the back of my head for awhile now as a possibility, and I have to admit I'm starting to believe it more and more everyday. And it's not even a good thing or a bad thing. But just a the business has taken a different direction thing and it's now up to WWE to find what is the right way to present their weekly product. Now, I know Raw and SD are both under TV contracts for the next 5 years and it's too much money to pass up. But it just may be that it's time for wrestling companies to present their product in a different way. I'm not going to pretend I know what that next step/direction is. Maybe it's a streaming thing going forward, I have no idea. But I'm starting to think that even if the product was clicking on all cylinders right now that the ratings might only be slightly better than they are at best.


If the programming genuinely improved the ratings would at the very least stabilize and not continually bleed, whether they would actually increase is another question.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

I wonder what kind of rating last night's show will be.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 5/21/19 Vs 5/14/19 ):
1.983M Vs 1.827M ( + 0.156M / + 8.54% )
0.610D Vs 0.560D

SDL Vs RAW:
1.983M Vs 2.521M ( - 0.538M / 78.66% )
0.610D Vs 0.877D*

*Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 8th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 5/21/19 Vs 5/22/18 ):
1.983M Vs 2.195M ( - 0.212M / - 9.66% )
0.610D Vs 0.680D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.195M Vs 2.669M ( - 0.474M / 82.24% )
0.680D Vs 0.887D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*-4th consecutive SDL with sub 2M viewership.
-4 week SDL viewership average is 1.894M.*


----------



## rbl85

Still Under 2M....


----------



## A-C-P

This Wildcard Rule BS is going to keep hurting Smackdown. Raw is shit enough on its own, and now with the Wildcard Rule BS they are just continuing the same shit stories from Raw on Smackdown


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

So much for the threat of a Brock cash in being a draw. :brock4


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Ratings up with Lacey appearing on the show :bjpenn


----------



## rbl85

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Ratings up with Lacey appearing on the show :bjpenn


If i was you i would not do that type of post every week….the hook is just too big XD


----------



## Isuzu

rbl85 said:


> Still Under 2M....


But its going back up not down. They're right at 2 million, the trend is upwards it will trend over 2 million by next week


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Ratings up with Lacey appearing on the show :bjpenn


That's not why the ratings slightly went up. It up at first because of Brock Lesnar teasing a cash in but when people knew it wasn't going to happen, they decided to tune out in the second hour.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

They need to get Brock full time and strap him up with both belts ASAP

:boombrock :brock


----------



## rbl85

Isuzu said:


> But its going back up not down. They're right at 2 million, the trend is upwards it will trend over 2 million by next week


oh i'm not so sure about that because a show after a PPV always have more viewers


----------



## Ace

NWO when SD barely gets a bump post PPV with a Brock cash in tease and is still below 2m, but Lacey was on the show.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Ace said:


> NWO when SD barely gets a bump post PPV with a Brock cash in tease and is still below 2m, but Lacey was on the show.


His gimmick is funnier than most on here to be fair. :shrug

I'm waiting for him to give Lacey credit for the ratings boost next time The Rock returns :lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Barackkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk DA DRAW.


----------



## chronoxiong

Wildcard rule needs to go. It can help RAW due to 3 hours but it is not helping Smackdown because there are a ton of superstars who we dont even get to see. Where is Chad Gable, Mickie James, Liv Morgan and Shelton Benjamin? And where were the Kabuki Warriors this week? And I didnt care to see McIntrye continue to feud with Roman Reigns. Both guys are on separate brands now. Just why must this continue?


----------



## Fearless Viper

Time to put belt back Orton to see if he can draw the viewers in.


----------



## The Wood

They only need to get 75% more viewers on a channel with 25% more accessibility. Easy as pie.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

chronoxiong said:


> Wildcard rule needs to go. It can help RAW due to 3 hours but it is not helping Smackdown because there are a ton of superstars who we dont even get to see. Where is Chad Gable, Mickie James, Liv Morgan and Shelton Benjamin? And where were the Kabuki Warriors this week? And I didnt care to see McIntrye continue to feud with Roman Reigns. Both guys are on separate brands now. Just why must this continue?


The reason we are not seeing Mickie James is because she is touring with her country music right now and back to producing.


----------



## Jedah

How are they gonna get those ratings up on a Friday night, too? :lmao

The 24/7 belt is a good change. If I knew they were going to do what they did with Truth and Carmella I might have tuned in, but yeah this "wild card" bullshit really needs to go. It's obviously not doing anything and it hurts the stories. Makes things so damn erratic.

When you sacrifice, Black, Murphy, Balor, Asuka, Kairi, Orton, Bryan, etc. etc. for "wild card" stupidity something is wrong.


----------



## llj

Under 2 million is the new reality. My god.


----------



## SPCDRI

Its 4 shows in a row under 2 million. Oof.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 5/28/19 Vs 5/21/19 ):
2.072M Vs 1.983M ( + 0.089M / + 4.49% )
0.690D Vs 0.610D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.072M Vs 2.190M ( - 0.118M / 94.61% )
0.690D Vs 0.720D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 5/28/19 Vs 5/29/18 ):
2.072M Vs 2.195M ( - 0.123M / - 5.60% )
0.690D Vs 0.660D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.195M Vs 2.495M ( - 0.300M / 87.98% )
0.660D Vs 0.767D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*


----------



## Mordecay

94% retention from RAW? Makes me think that if it wasn't Memorial Day rating would have been way a few thousand higher


----------



## Jedah

Barely treading water at 2, though surprisingly up from last week. If it's this bad now, imagine it when Raw gets killed during Football season SD shows on a much worse night. I'm not sure if the change to network instead of cable TV and Fox's promotion can save it. Maybe some new dynamic will come in place but I doubt it.


----------



## Erik.

Eesh.

Pathetic again.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Wow.

Yeah, the moment was great but time for Kofi to drop the belt. It just isn't working. Not to bullshit Ziggler but roughly soon. It isn't RAW awful but it's pretty mediocre.


----------



## rbl85

I would have been such a good shit if SDL did better than RAW XD


----------



## Sin City Saint

Goldberg does bring ratings. I expect a pretty big bump for the blue brand this week.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Let's see how a big draw is Goldberg this time.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 6/4/19 Vs 5/28/19 ):
2.016M Vs 2.072M ( - 0.056M / - 2.70% )
0.600D Vs 0.690D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.016M Vs 2.405M ( - 0.389M / 83.83% )
0.600D Vs 0.780D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 8th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 6/4/19 Vs 6/5/18 ):
2.016M Vs 2.138M ( - 0.122M / - 5.71% )
0.600D Vs 0.670D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.138M Vs 2.526M ( - 0.388M / 84.64% )
0.670D Vs 0.850D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*


----------



## Erik.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Down 56K from last week. So much for the part-timers being a draw. And Goldberg was advertised in advance, too. :lmao Damn.

"THE PART TIMERS WILL SAVE THE RATINGS THEY SAID"

:ha


----------



## DammitChrist

I THOUGHT PART-TIMERS WERE SUPPOSED TO "SAVE" THE RATINGS :ha :ha


----------



## Fearless Viper

Was there a competition last night?


----------



## Ace

Goldberg and no competition? Yikes :lmao


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Lacey was on SD last week and ratings went up. No Lacey this week and ratings are down. :jericho2


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Kofi is failing as WWE Champion. Something needs to change.


----------



## rexmundi

The only "good"news is that the year to year drops are getting smaller because the ratings have been crap for that long. Taker + Goldberg = :yawn


----------



## Rick Sanchez

How big a bump did people really expect of Goldberg? It's 2019.


----------



## Erik.

Rick Sanchez said:


> How big a bump did people really expect of Goldberg? It's 2019.


I am sure the WWE more than likely thought it would get a bump which is why they've been advertising him for a week and saved him for the last segment of the show.


----------



## chronoxiong

I was getting ready to say Goldberg = ratings after last night's promo. But this week's rating didn't even increase from last week or last year. How sad. The Big Dawg doesn't even help improve ratings either.


----------



## A-C-P

And this is another thing i said would happen with this "Wild Card Rule" BS its going to kill SD's ratings as people are not going to tune in to watch pretty much the same show 2 nights in a row....


----------



## Jedah

Oh wow.

I thought Goldberg was the one last set of pocket aces they had left in the hole. Turn's out it's just a deuce seven.

Terrible.

BuT tHe OlD gUyS aRe HuGe DrAwS!!!!!!!!! :eyeroll


----------



## Ace

A-C-P said:


> And this is another thing i said would happen with this "Wild Card Rule" BS its going to kill SD's ratings as people are not going to tune in to watch pretty much the same show 2 nights in a row....


 The idiot who thought of the idea should be fired. Yes, I know it was Vince.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Jedah said:


> Oh wow.
> 
> I thought Goldberg was the one last set of pocket aces they had left in the hole. Turn's out it's just a deuce seven.
> 
> Terrible.
> 
> BuT tHe OlD gUyS aRe HuGe DrAwS!!!!!!!!! :eyeroll


"The brand is the draw"

:vince5


----------



## Jedah

Yeah, the brand draws people somewhere else.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Nobody is going to essentially watch two RAW shows back to back, especially if they are god awful.

They drew lower than last week with Goldberg announced in advance. Holy shit. :duck


----------



## ClintDagger

I thought Goldberg would help. And the truth is, he probably did help SOME which should make that number even scarier.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Even Goldberg and The Undertaker couldn't move the needle. :lol


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Imagine if Goldberg hadn't been announced. Holy fuck. :done


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

The show was atrocious I don’t blame people. :lol Only good things was R-Truth and Goldberg


----------



## Swindle

With the wildcard rule in effect, all the best stuff is certainly going to happen on RAW even for Smackdown's big players.


----------



## birthday_massacre

so much for all the people that claimed Oldberg would improve the ratings LMAO


----------



## Mongstyle

A-C-P said:


> And this is another thing i said would happen with this "Wild Card Rule" BS its going to kill SD's ratings as people are not going to tune in to watch pretty much the same show 2 nights in a row....


It's not killing it so far though.

We know Raw directly impacts Smackdown. We've known this since 2016. Raw was about to go under 2 million. Had they not done the Wild Card and actually managed to stabilize Raw, we'd likely be dealing with a Smackdown putting in numbers around 1.5-1.6 million since it's normally around 80% of Raw, and a Raw under 2 million would mean disaster for both shows.

Now they're still hovering around the 2 million mark which isn't different from where they were even 8 months ago, and their retention last week was 94% and this week it was 84%.

These still ain't good numbers in general because a lot of damage has been done since late 2018, but they are good with the context of where they were headed after Mania. Considering Raw's numbers, Smackdown should be doing sub-2 million more regularly right now. That they're hovering around and above it is still a decent result for them.


----------



## McGee

During the Proper Brand Split SmackDown was always the better show. Now with this WildCard thing they just retread the same angles from RAW with the same people which makes it no longer anything worth watching. FOX got some major egg on their face to pay a billion dollars for this.


----------



## rexmundi

Smackdown is Raw recap is not the greatest idea to improve its ratings. The Wildcard has ruined Smackdown's quality which was pretty good all year.


----------



## The Wood

WWE have chased away casual fans to the point where Goldberg is not going to draw them back in. You have fans that are going to reject actual stars now. That being said, it's not like Goldberg doing a talky segment is a deal in itself -- talking was never his thing.


----------



## Robbyfude

I guess making Smackdown Raw hours 4 and 5 didn't help much


----------



## llj

There's not much more that need be said. I could keep kicking the WWE while they're down but at this point it's just so pathetic I don't know if I can summon up the enthusiasm to kick them anymore.


----------



## Not Lying

:lmao :lmao

your old fucks can't draw shit as well. :lmao :lmao I love this :lmao


----------



## Krin

edit , wrong wrong


----------



## llj

Will be interesting to see if numbers here go below 2M.

Just checked their youtube page. Holy shit even the youtube views are terribad. The only segments above 1 million is the 24/7 stuff. This is both RAW *and* Smackdown.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 6/11/19 Vs 6/4/19 ):
1.930M Vs 2.016M ( - 0.086M / - 4.27% )
0.600D Vs 0.600D

SDL Vs RAW:
1.930M Vs 2.125M ( - 0.195M / 90.82% )
0.600D Vs 0.663D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 6/11/19 Vs 6/12/18 ):
1.930M Vs 2.183M ( - 0.253M / - 11.59% )
0.600D Vs 0.660D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.183M Vs 2.731M ( - 0.548M / 79.93% )
0.660D Vs 0.937D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 9th by viewership.*


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

:maury

Fucking WOAT tier. They have four months left until the FOX move. Holy shit.


----------



## Ace

:lol


----------



## rexmundi

Damn, the ratings just keep on sucking. I think Teddy Long needs to reform his old Doom team, this time with Seth and Kofi. Call them Ratings Doom. 8*D :Cocky :kofi


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

I knew it was going under 2 million but damn, I didn't think it would be that close. :lmao


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

As Fox edges closer and closer.


----------



## Ace

No competition.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Can't wait till they put the belt on Shane and ratings fall off a cliff. This company deserves to burn.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Ace said:


> No competition.


What about Curse of GOAT Island? :lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

To think people thought the Women's Revolution would draw. The biggest focus of the Road to WM, and completely destroyed the company.

:lmao


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Ace said:


> No competition.


Almost a full hour of Shane McMahon will do that to the ratings. No one wants to see him on two shows let alone talking most to time and taking TV time from the roster. People want to see fights, not full blown talking. Shame this company doesn't get it. :lol


----------



## ClintDagger

Seth is one thing, but how can they stand by while their product is dying right before their eyes and keep a world title on a joke like Kofi? I mean this is suicide. At the rate they are falling they aren’t that far away from being in a place where Fox and USA might both consider canceling them.


----------



## ClintDagger

Showstopper said:


> To think people thought the Women's Revolution would draw. The biggest focus of the Road to WM, and completely destroyed the company.
> 
> :lmao


Yeah man. They were falling anyways but that sped up the fall by maybe two years.


----------



## Ace

Showstopper said:


> To think people thought the Women's Revolution would draw. The biggest focus of the Road to WM, and completely destroyed the company.
> 
> :lmao


 Considering they've cut back significantly on the women, they know it. It was never sincere to begin with, it was for the good PR and pats on the back they never got :lol

Enjoy the record lows clowns.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Showstopper said:


> To think people thought the Women's Revolution would draw. The biggest focus of the Road to WM, and completely destroyed the company.
> 
> :lmao


Sure, it was the women. It certainly wasn't the rodent-voiced Rollins calling Brock a bully every week or the career comedy jobber Kofi becoming superman overnight. Or a decade of Cena and Reigns being complete failures as FOTC. It was all the women's fault.


----------



## Ace

ClintDagger said:


> Yeah man. They were falling anyways but that sped up the fall by maybe two years.


 This is what w0menz wResTlinG fan boys don't get, the ratings were declining and have been for years but they died around the time they became the focus of shows. I didn't expect to see these numbers until 2020-2021.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Sure, it was the women. It certainly wasn't the rodent-voiced Rollins calling Brock a bully every week or the career comedy jobber Kofi becoming superman overnight. Or a decade of Cena and Reigns being complete failures as FOTC. It was all the women's fault.


Go back and watch Raw and SD between January and and WM of this year. The women were the only one's on BOTH Raw and SD during the Road to WM.

They were far and away the biggest focus and everything else was not important.


----------



## Ace

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Sure, it was the women. It certainly wasn't the rodent-voiced Rollins calling Brock a bully every week or the career comedy jobber Kofi becoming superman overnight. Or a decade of Cena and Reigns being complete failures as FOTC. It was all the women's fault.


 Seth could be anyone, he inherited this mess from the women who killed the ratings from November. There was no freaking bump for WM FGS and Seth wasn't the main focus for the show - it was the women.

There's a reason why so many call the womens revolution a disaster and why wrestlers themselves are giving Becky shit for the ratings.


----------



## Erik.

5 of the last 7 weeks have been below 2,000,000.

On top of the fact that Raw just did their worst rating of the year.


----------



## DammitChrist

They deserve to go under 2 million viewers :lol

The decision to feature Shane McMahon for a HALF HOUR, and having him go over the Miz AGAIN (by making tap out) was fucking atrocious.

No wonder the show last night got terrible numbers. The first half-hour was just awful.



rexmundi said:


> Damn, the ratings just keep on sucking. I think Teddy Long needs to reform his old Doom team, this time with Seth and Kofi. *Call them Ratings Doom. 8*D :Cocky :kofi*


If only that was actually clever and true (which it's not) 8*D


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Showstopper said:


> Go back and watch Raw and SD between January and and WM of this year. The women were the only one's on BOTH Raw and SD during the Road to WM.
> 
> They were far and away the biggest focus and everything else was not important.
> 
> So yeah. Take a seat.


Women have barely been featured post-WM. Raw has revolved around your boy and a weekly cash-in tease and ratings are even shittier now than they were pre-WM.

Stop trying to shift the blame from Seth's obvious anti-ratings ass :lol


----------



## Ace

ClintDagger said:


> Seth is one thing, but how can they stand by while their product is dying right before their eyes and keep a world title on a joke like Kofi? I mean this is suicide. At the rate they are falling they aren’t that far away from being in a place where Fox and USA might both consider canceling them.


 I don't get blaming Seth, if it wasn't him it would be another bland top babyface they want on top. He could be anyone, they're not exactly letting him do shit other than play a cookie cutter, bland babyface no one cares about like they have for years. Kofi on the other hand is a joke and should not be a world champion.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

The women are barely even on tv, Seth is taking up opening and closing segments every week. Y'all Seth marks keep deflecting though, you just keep telling yourself he's not a failure :lol

Brock came back and steadied the ship, first week away and the helium voiced geek sinks it again. :lol :lol :lol

I won't blame Kofi, as SD is the Shane O'Mac and Roman show. 

:rollins :reigns :shane

Enjoy your record lows.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Women have barely been featured post-WM. Raw has revolved around your boy and a weekly cash-in tease and ratings are even shittier now than they were pre-WM.
> 
> Stop trying to shift the blame from Seth's obvious anti-ratings ass :lol


They can shift the focus all they want. It's too late for that. As always in the past, it's on what is top the storyline going into WM and what main-events WM to be the draw of the company for the next few months after that.

And they're failing. If they wanted the men to draw after WM, they should've made them the focus during the Road to WM and at WM itself. WWE flubbed that and now they get to pay the price.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Ace said:


> *Seth could be anyone*, he inherited this mess from the women who killed the ratings from November. There was no freaking bump for WM FGS and Seth wasn't the main focus for the show - it was the women.
> 
> There's a reason why so many call the womens revolution a disaster and why wrestlers themselves are giving Becky shit for the ratings.


If he could then he should become someone who doesn't suck at his job. If Corbin was champ and ratings were this shit we wouldn't be hearing any blame for the women. It would be 100% Corbin's fault. But because this forum's favorite wrestler is champ it has to be everyone else's fault. Ridiculous.


----------



## DammitChrist

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Women have barely been featured post-WM. Raw has revolved around your boy and a weekly cash-in tease and ratings are even shittier now than they were pre-WM.
> 
> Stop trying to shift the blame from Seth's obvious anti-ratings ass :lol


How sad. You and @SayWhatAgain! ; are still falsely blaming the low ratings on the current talents instead of Vince in 2019 :lol

Imagine being that delusional :lol :lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

SayWhatAgain! said:


> The women are barely even on tv, Seth is taking up opening and closing segments every week. Y'all Seth marks keep deflecting though, you just keep telling yourself he's not a failure :lol
> 
> Brock came back and steadied the ship, first week away and the helium voiced geek sinks it again. :lol :lol :lol
> 
> I won't blame Kofi, as SD is the Shane O'Mac and Roman show.
> 
> :rollins :reigns :shane
> 
> Enjoy your record lows.


Aren't you a Becky fan? She's the FIRST WOMAN TO MAIN EVENT A WM EVER. And even after making history, can't draw anything already.

Brock didn't steady shit. Raw's ratings were trash then, too. He literally made no difference for awhile now and they pay him more than anyone. Another sunken cost, just like this year's WM main event. A complete waste.


----------



## rbl85

DammitC said:


> How sad. You're still falsely blaming the low ratings on the current talents instead of Vince in 2019 :lol


Can't be because of Vince…..he gives us so much good shit.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitC said:


> How sad. You're still falsely blaming the low ratings on the current talents instead of Vince in 2019 :lol


Oh, don't worry. If someone he likes ever gets good enough to become a Champion, that wrestler he likes will be getting roasted far worse than anything you've seen on here just by me alone. That's a guarantee.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

DammitC said:


> How sad. You and @SayWhatAgain! ; are still falsely blaming the low ratings on the current talents instead of Vince in 2019 :lol


Funny how you single us out but not Showstopper and Ace blaming the women. You really are defensive over Seth :lmao


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Showstopper said:


> Aren't you a Becky fan? She's the FIRST WOMAN TO MAIN EVENT A WM EVER. And even after making history, can't draw anything already.
> 
> Brock didn't steady shit. Raw's ratings were trash then, too. He literally made no difference for awhile now and they pay him more than anyone. Another sunken cost, just like this year's WM main event. A complete waste.


Doesn't she get about 5 minutes of tv time a week? Compared to Seth's 45.

Who cares about Becky. Yeah, I like her as a talker and enjoyed her heel character, although she's not been entertaining in months. Unlike you, I can admit one of my favourites isn't a draw. Becky isn't a draw, just like Seth 

Put the Women's title on Lacey or Alexa, I don't care. I guarantee if they take the title off Seth and put it on someone with an OUNCE of charisma ratings will improve.


----------



## Chris90

>No Asuka again
>Ratings collapse again


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Doesn't she get about 5 minutes of tv time a week? Compared to Seth's 45.
> 
> Who cares about Becky. Yeah, I like her as a talker and enjoyed her heel character, although she's not been entertaining in months. Unlike you, I can admit one of my favourites isn't a draw. Becky isn't a draw, just like Seth


Seth doesn't get anywhere near 45 mins. :mj4

I already know Seth isn't a draw. Never said he was. My only point is neither is anyone else. :shrug


----------



## DammitChrist

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Funny how you single us out but not Showstopper and Ace blaming the women. You really are defensive over Seth :lmao


I don't even agree about them blaming the women, you clown :lmao


----------



## Ace

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Funny how you single us out but not Showstopper and Ace blaming the women. You really are defensive over Seth :lmao


 I've been blaming them since November, and I'm indifferent to Seth.

I know WWE top babyfaces are not going to draw shit an their current incarnation. Their bland af and are all the same. 

If Seth was the FOTC, main evented WM/s, heavily featured during the ratings apocalypse, I would be giving him more shit.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Doesn't she get about 5 minutes of tv time a week? Compared to Seth's 45.
> 
> Who cares about Becky. Yeah, I like her as a talker and enjoyed her heel character, although she's not been entertaining in months. Unlike you, I can admit one of my favourites isn't a draw. Becky isn't a draw, just like Seth


No one in the company is a draw, not even Lesnar. Though it's Vince's fault for handicapping them and afraid of them getting too big. They had many opportunities since 2016 to build stars with this shake up but they chose not to. Becky was close on the female side until they fucked her over this past late Jan. 

Vince's coward and scared of people leaving the company after they get big is what is going to bite him at the end. At least we AEW, Impact Wrestling and Japan, they each have stars in their companies because they successfully build them up. All of their divisions too. It's a shame that Vince's is too stupid to the same. 

But this is what they get aka Vince. You put on shit shows and not even trying will be his own demise as a promoter.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Imagine not placing any blame on the top storyline during the most important time of year and what traditionally sets the tone for the rest of the year after WM.

:lmao :lmao :lmao

Yeah, the top storyline going into WM and what main-evented WM for the first time ever shouldn't get any blame. :lmao :lmao

I mean, if you want to blame Vince for going in that direction instead of the actual talents involved; fine. But you can't say looking back on it now that it paid off for WWE's weekly TV shows. It simply has not.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

DammitC said:


> I don't even agree about them blaming the women, you clown :lmao


Maybe so, but you didn't call his post out. Just mine because you see an anti-Seth post and must run to his defense every. single. time. Literally never fails.

At this point I don't want Seth to drop the belt. Let him keep it and continue to be the lowest drawing world champion in history. That's a great look for him. Exactly what he deserves. Then his more talented friend that he helped chase off to AEW can outdraw him come October.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

To be fair to Becky, it hasn't helped that she's been dumped with the human dumpster that is Lacey Evans. A ********* who is stuck in a time-warp thinking it's 1950. Talks like it's 1950, and wrestles in quicksand.

Worthless, boring, trash.


----------



## Ace

Showstopper said:


> Imagine not placing any blame on the top storyline during the most important time of year and what traditionally sets the tone for the rest of the year after WM.
> 
> :lmao :lmao :lmao
> 
> Yeah, the top storyline going into WM and what main-evented WM for the first time ever shouldn't get any blame. :lmao :lmao
> 
> I mean, if you want to blame Vince for going in that direction instead of the actual talents involved; fine. But you can't say looking back on it now that it paid off for WWE's weekly TV shows. It simply has not.


 IIRC Ratings dropped 100-200k from the previous week after they announced the womens match as the main event :lmao

People going to keep living in denial because of their favorites, even Meltzer who is a supporter of womens wrestling has questioned whether people in America are ready/there to see the women at the top of cards.


----------



## Ace

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Doesn't she get about 5 minutes of tv time a week? Compared to Seth's 45.
> 
> Who cares about Becky. Yeah, I like her as a talker and enjoyed her heel character, although she's not been entertaining in months. Unlike you, I can admit one of my favourites isn't a draw. Becky isn't a draw, just like Seth
> 
> Put the Women's title on Lacey or Alexa, I don't care. I guarantee if they take the title off Seth and put it on someone with an OUNCE of charisma ratings will improve.


 There's a reason Vince is giving her 5 mins... 

Do you really think it's a coincidence the women have been featured drastically less since the ratings became a news topic?


----------



## V-Trigger

We need more Shane O'Mac


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Showstopper said:


> To be fair to Becky, it hasn't helped that she's been dumped with the human dumpster that is Lacey Evans. A ********* who is stuck in a time-warp thinking it's 1950. Talks like it's 1950, and wrestles in quicksand.
> 
> Worthless, boring, trash.














Ace said:


> There's a reason Vince is giving her 5 mins...


Didn't dispute it.

Now cut Seth's time and give it to Truth.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

SayWhatAgain! said:


>


It's my opinion. And I'm far from the only one who shares it.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Showstopper said:


> To be fair to Becky, it hasn't helped that she's been dumped with the human dumpster that is Lacey Evans. A ********* who is stuck in a time-warp thinking it's 1950. Talks like it's 1950, and wrestles in quicksand.
> 
> Worthless, boring, trash.


Becky in a feud with Lacey was one of the worst decisions Vince has made so far this year. Lacey is not even ready for a mid card title let alone the Raw Woman's championship feud. 

And you know me, I know Becky is not a draw but could have been but not on Vince's watch. :lol


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

R-Truth and the 7/11 European Championship is the only draw in this *pissant company*.


----------



## Ace

Seth is getting 45 mins a week because he's world champion, it could be anyone and they'd get the same amount of time.

That's how they book - champion opens and generally closes the show, which is all up 30-45 mins. The numbers would be the same because no one draws, he's inherited these numbers from a WM angle/PR stunt that was an all time bust.


----------



## A-C-P

I'll tell you who's fault the low ratings are...Its all of you, the fans' fault for not watching the shows DAMMIT, The shows are filled with such GOOD SHIT DAMMIT :vince3


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Ace said:


> Seth is getting 45 mins a week because he's world champion, it could be anyone and they'd get the same amount of time.
> 
> That's how they book - champion opens and generally closes the show, which is all up 30-45 mins.


Well he's doing a bad job then.

Put the belt on Truth, he'd draw better. I guarantee it.


----------



## DammitChrist

They advertised GOLDBERG in advance last week, and the show STILL got shitty numbers.

The product at this point is just mediocre. It's looking like that's not going to change anytime soon with the wildcard rule still being around, and Shane McMahon still getting pushed over most of the other current wrestlers.

Pretty much nobody can save the show (let alone the ratings) as long as Vince continues to write medicore/underwhelming shows and make terrible booking decisions on a weekly basis. 

It's actually pretty baffling that some folks still have the nerve to blame the poor ratings on ANY current talent, especially after just hearing about the creative process that Jon Moxley revealed recently.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Ace said:


> I've been blaming them since November, and I'm indifferent to Seth.
> 
> I know WWE top babyfaces are not going to draw shit an their current incarnation. Their bland af and are all the same.
> 
> If Seth was the FOTC, main evented WM/s, heavily featured during the ratings apocalypse, I would be giving him more shit.


Seth has been pushed as 1B to Roman's 1A since he was called up to the main roster and since WM he's been pushed as the FOTC. Vince never let Roman do to Brock what he let Seth do. You guys act like Seth has been booked like some little geek his entire career who was just randomly handed the belt when he's always been a top guy. 

The women had 2 months on top and have been back to being treated as an afterthought since WM ended. There have been rating spikes on random Raw and SD's post-WM and those viewers never stay the next week. You can't blame that on the women when Seth, Kofi, Roman and Shane are the focal points of the product. They're the ones driving viewers away now.

In fact 2 weeks ago on Raw hour 2 was by far the highest rated and that was when Lacey, Charlotte and Becky were on. Then hour 3 lost about 600k viewers when Seth opened it. People literally heard his theme hit and flipped the channel. Undertaker was advertised for that hour too and people still didn't come back. That's how bad Seth is for ratings.


----------



## rexmundi

:rollins + :kofi = :brock4


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Ace said:


> Seth is getting 45 mins a week because he's world champion, it could be anyone and they'd get the same amount of time.
> 
> That's how they book - champion opens and generally closes the show, which is all up 30-45 mins. The numbers would be the same because no one draws, he's inherited these numbers from a WM angle/PR stunt that was an all time bust.


That's the problem, they had Seth on 2 to 3 segments in which he as the Champion, should be in one and then a match. That is it. No he feels as an overexposed talent that is Champion.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Seth has been pushed as 1B to Roman's 1A since he was called up to the main roster and since WM he's been pushed as the FOTC. Vince never let Roman do to Brock what he let Seth do. You guys act like Seth has been booked like some little geek his entire career who was just randomly handed the belt when he's always been a top guy.
> 
> The women had 2 months on top and have been back to being treated as an afterthought since WM ended. There have been rating spikes on random Raw and SD's post-WM and those viewers never stay the next week. You can't blame that on the women when Seth, Kofi, Roman and Shane are the focal points of the product. They're the ones driving viewers away now.
> 
> In fact 2 weeks ago on Raw hour 2 was by far the highest rated and that was when Lacey, Charlotte and Becky were on. Then hour 3 lost about 600k viewers when Seth opened it. People literally heard his theme hit and flipped the channel. Undertaker was advertised for that hour too and people still didn't come back. That's how bad Seth is for ratings.


DOESN'T MATTER BRO, HE CAN FLIP AND HIS STOMP IS COOL! #DRAW

I can think of 10 guys on Raw alone who would do a better job as champion.


----------



## Erik.

Stop blaming talent.

Blame shit product.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Well he's doing a bad job then.
> 
> Put the belt on Truth, he'd draw better. I guarantee it.


Switching Champions is not the answer either. They still be going doing the drain in the ratings department. :lol


----------



## DammitChrist

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Maybe so, but you didn't call his post out. Just mine because you see an anti-Seth post and must run to his defense every. single. time. Literally never fails.


It's pretty cute (and laughable) seeing you bitch about Seth Rollins in just about every thread on a daily basis along with the fact that you pretend like everything is his fault. That never seems to fail.



> At this point I don't want Seth to drop the belt. Let him keep it and continue to be the lowest drawing world champion in history. That's a great look for him. Exactly what he deserves. Then his more talented friend that he helped chase off to AEW can outdraw him come October.


That's not going to be what he's known as :mj4

Rollins would thrive more on AEW since he's talented and since their shows would actually be booked well.


----------



## Ace

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Seth has been pushed as 1B to Roman's 1A since he was called up to the main roster and since WM he's been pushed as the FOTC. Vince never let Roman do to Brock what he let Seth do. You guys act like Seth has been booked like some little geek his entire career who was just randomly handed the belt when he's always been a top guy.
> 
> The women had 2 months on top and have been back to being treated as an afterthought since WM ended. There have been rating spikes on random Raw and SD's post-WM and those viewers never stay the next week. You can't blame that on the women when Seth, Kofi, Roman and Shane are the focal points of the product. They're the ones driving viewers away now.
> 
> In fact 2 weeks ago on Raw hour 2 was by far the highest rated and that was when Lacey, Charlotte and Becky were on. Then hour 3 lost about 600k viewers when Seth opened it. People literally heard his theme hit and flipped the channel. Undertaker was advertised for that hour too and people still didn't come back. That's how bad Seth is for ratings.


 Two weeks ago against what and wasn't a Brock cash in teased around then? If Becky, Lacey, Charlotte could help the ratings do you think Vince would be giving them 5 mins a week especially now when he's desperate for them. 

It's common sense fpalm

All you do is look at numbers in isolation, forget them and post shit about Seth. It's annoying and I'm not even a fan of Seth's. It's surprising how you haven't been banned yet because I'm pretty sure everyone on here thinks you're a troll/rejoiner/alt.

If you're going to blame someone each week at least come up with a solid argument. And for god sakes don't bring up Corbin or Lacey because they would do as bad, if not worse. It only makes you look like a fool who isn't worth the time of day when you bring up two people who are not over as a solution or option.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

DammitC said:


> It's pretty cute (and laughable) seeing you bitch about Seth Rollins in just about every thread on an weekly basis along with the fact that you pretend like everything is his fault. That never seems to fail.
> 
> 
> 
> That's not going to be what he's known as :mj4
> 
> *Rollins would thrive more on AEW since he's talented* and since their shows would actually be booked well.












The only thing Rollins would do in AEW is get emasculated on the mic because he wouldn't have a script to protect him.


----------



## DammitChrist

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> The only thing Rollins would do in AEW is get emasculated on the mic because he wouldn't have a script to protect him.


He would hold his own just fine without a script. He’s clearly underrated on the mic.


----------



## DammitChrist

MJF said:


> Stop blaming talent.
> 
> Blame shit product.


Hey, don’t you dare talk some ACTUAL sense in these topics 8*D


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> Rollins would thrive more on AEW since he's talented and since their shows would actually be booked well.


Could AEW's booking team fix the issue with Rollins' voice? No

Could AEW's booking team fix Rollins' acting deficiencies? No

Could AEW book Rollins as a convincing bad ass? No

Sure, he might produce 1 or 2 more "4 star matches" in AEW. But beyond that, he'd be the same Seth Rollins. Fine as a mid-card talent. A failure as a headliner. 

......................

I will save you the trouble of responding:

Rollins is the best ever. His arena pops prove he has the charisma of The Rock. He'd draw more than Austin if he was booked correctly. All hail Seth

unkout:


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Ace said:


> Two weeks ago against what and wasn't a Brock cash in teased around then? If Becky, Lacey, Charlotte could help the ratings do you think Vince would be giving them 5 mins a week especially now when he's desperate for them.
> 
> It's common sense fpalm
> 
> All you do is look at numbers in isolation, forget them and post shit about Seth. It's annoying and I'm not even a fan of Seth's. It's surprising how you haven't been banned yet because I'm pretty sure everyone on here thinks you're a troll/rejoiner/alt.
> 
> If you're going to blame someone each week at least come up with a solid argument. And for god sakes don't bring up Corbin or Lacey because they would do as bad, if not worse. It only makes you look like a fool who isn't worth the time of day when you bring up two people who are not over as a solution or option.


A Brock cash-in is teased every week. People know it's not happening on free TV. When the Universal Champion comes out to start the 3rd hour 600k people shouldn't be flipping the channel.

All you do every week is blame the women for main eventing 1 PPV as being the entire reason that ratings are shit. Now start asking for me to get banned because I presented facts you couldn't dispute. Funny how a few months ago you liked a shit ton of my posts until I started criticizing your boy AJ and now you want me banned :lol You and DammitC get way to clingy to your favorite wrestlers.

It's clear at this point that there are 2 million people who don't give a damn about real sports and will keep watching whatever WWE puts out no matter how bad it is or who the champ is so you suggesting Corbin or Lacey could do any worse is laughable. Both would be fresh champions and can actually speak without embarrassing themselves unlike Seth, AJ or Roman.

Anyways carry on with your anti-women circle jerk.


----------



## AlternateDemise

It absolutely amazes me that the number one complaint right now is that the quality of the product is extremely low and yet everyone is trying to say the top stars are to blame for ratings continuing to decline.



nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> A Brock cash-in is teased every week. People know it's not happening on free TV. When the Universal Champion comes out to start the 3rd hour 600k people shouldn't be flipping the channel.
> 
> All you do every week is blame the women for main eventing 1 PPV as being the entire reason that ratings are shit. Now start asking for me to get banned because I presented facts you couldn't dispute. Funny how a few months ago you liked a shit ton of my posts until I started criticizing your boy AJ and now you want me banned :lol You and DammitC get way to clingy to your favorite wrestlers.
> 
> It's clear at this point that there are 2 million people who don't give a damn about real sports and will keep watching whatever WWE puts out no matter how bad it is or who the champ is so you suggesting Corbin or Lacey could do any worse is laughable. Both would be fresh champions and can actually speak without embarrassing themselves unlike Seth, AJ or Roman.
> 
> Anyways carry on with your anti-women circle jerk.


Even though I disagree with mostly everything that is said by one of the two people you are saying this to, you really have no right to call any claim anyone makes laughable when every other post you make consists of "put the belt on Lacey Evans and the ratings will go up".


----------



## DammitChrist

raymond1985 said:


> I will save you the trouble of responding:
> 
> Rollins is the best ever. His arena pops prove he has the charisma of The Rock. He'd draw more than Austin if he was booked correctly. All hail Seth
> 
> unkout:


Once again, you never fail to make another atrocious post because I've never once that Rollins in the same tier as Steve Austin and The Rock in terms of charisma :lmao

Anyway, Rollins would still cut better promos on AEW, and I'm confident that he can be a convincing badass with their better booking


----------



## Ace

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> A Brock cash-in is teased every week. People know it's not happening on free TV. When the Universal Champion comes out to start the 3rd hour 600k people shouldn't be flipping the channel.
> 
> All you do every week is blame the women for main eventing 1 PPV as being the entire reason that ratings are shit. Now start asking for me to get banned because I presented facts you couldn't dispute. Funny how a few months ago you liked a shit ton of my posts until I started criticizing your boy AJ and now you want me banned :lol You and DammitC get way to clingy to your favorite wrestlers.
> 
> It's clear at this point that there are 2 million people who don't give a damn about real sports and will keep watching whatever WWE puts out no matter how bad it is or who the champ is so you suggesting Corbin or Lacey could do any worse is laughable. Both would be fresh champions and can actually speak without embarrassing themselves unlike Seth, AJ or Roman.
> 
> Anyways carry on with your anti-women circle jerk.


 There's logic behind why I blame the women 1) the fall occurred during a time where they were heavily featured/the focus of the show 2) the women being at the top is far different to another heavyweight champion.

Practically anyone could be heavyweight champion today and the difference in ratings would be marginal. 

A whole other division being on top is a different matter and we all know it. Or do you think Kofi or Seth being world champion is more influential to ratings than another division e.g. tag or CW division. becoming the top division/focus of the show? The men's heavyweight division is the WWE's bread and butter, it's the reason why we're all here. Do you really believe marginalizing it for (IMO) a inferior division and shoving it down fans throats would be good for ratings?

Evidently my opinion has some truth to it since they've stopped featuring the women at a time when they're desperate for good numbers and people who analyse these numbers have alluded to the same.


----------



## DammitChrist

Showstopper said:


> Oh, don't worry. If someone he likes ever gets good enough to become a Champion, that wrestler he likes will be getting roasted far worse than anything you've seen on here just by me alone. That's a guarantee.


For the record, I want to address your post by following it up with this:

If the likes of Baron Corbin, Lacey Evans, Jinder Mahal, and Brock Lesnar win the world titles later this summer; and the ratings STILL keep declining (which I definitely expect will happen because the booking of the shows is still mediocre), then it's going to be HILARIOUS to see those posters (who are obsessed with blaming the current talents) suddenly change their tune. I'll be looking forward to see that for sure :lol

At least I'll be consistent with shifting the blame on Vince and the company for handcuffing their talents creativity-wise when they most likely win the titles.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Ace said:


> There's logic behind why I blame the women 1) the fall occurred during a time where they were heavily featured 2) the women being at the top is far different to another heavyweight champion.
> 
> Practically anyone could be heavyweight champion today and the difference in ratings would be marginal.
> 
> A whole other division being on top is a different matter and we all know it. Or do you think Kofi or Seth being world champion is more influential to ratings than another division e.g. tag or CW division. becoming the top division/focus of the show?


Except Ronda Rousey is the biggest draw in the history of combat sports so there goes the theory that women can't draw. The problem is WWE botched the entire storyline. The original plan was Ronda/Charlotte then Becky got hot and had to be inserted. Vince was stubborn and still wanted Charlotte in there which made the angle a mess. It was never designed to be a 3 way.

Having a comedy jobber who's built like a twig like Kofi go from not even being one of the top 5 guys in line for a title shot on SD if Ali doesn't get hurt to burying half the roster all because DB made him look good in one match is less believable than having strongly booked women main event.

Brock didn't even want to main event this year anyway. It was his call to open the show because he was losing and wanted to get the hell out. So it was either Bryan/Kofi or Ronda/Becky/Charlotte. The women's match looks better as a card headliner than the former.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

DammitC said:


> For the record, I want to address your post by following it up with this.
> 
> If the likes of Baron Corbin, Lacey Evans, *Jinder Mahal*, and Brock Lesnar win the world titles later this summer; and the ratings STILL keep declining (which I definitely expect will happen because the booking of the shows is still mediocre), then it's going to be HILARIOUS to see those posters (who are obsessed with blaming the current talents) suddenly change their tune. I'll be looking forward to that for sure :lol
> 
> At least I'll be consistent with shifting the blame on Vince and the company for handcuffing their talents creativity-wise.


It's already happened. He was outdrawing Seth while on the B-show


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

^^ Did you forget that Rollins wasn't Universal Champion in 2017 while Jinder Mahal was in the WWE Champion and stinking up the main event scene?


----------



## Ace

Where do I start...



nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Except Ronda Rousey is the biggest draw in the history of combat sports.


 Wrong.



nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> The problem is WWE botched the entire storyline. The original plan was Ronda/Charlotte then Becky got hot and had to be inserted.


 Ratings have been shit since November, the plan post SS was 100% Ronda/Becky. Charlotte only got involved in the mix a few weeks out from WM. Try again.



nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Having a comedy jobber who's built like a twig like Kofi go from not even being one of the top 5 guys in line for a title shot on SD if Ali doesn't get hurt to burying half the roster all because DB made him look good in one match is less believable than having strongly booked women main event.


 Kofi being world champion has had marginal impact on ratings, anyone else could be champion at the ratings would most likely be similar. I am someone who is not a fan of his or him being world champion, I think him being world champion is hurting ratings as he was a geek for most of his career but not to a great extent.



nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Brock didn't even want to main event this year anyway. It was his call to open the show because he was losing and wanted to get the hell out.


 That was the kayfabe reason for opening...



nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> So it was either Bryan/Kofi or Ronda/Becky/Charlotte. The women's match looks better as a card headliner than the former.


 May be the case, the match itself was pretty meh and the crowd was pretty dead come the match. Kofi/Bryan had more heat and was more over. Kofi/Bryan had become the hottest feud a month out from WM.

With such inaccuracies no wonder you don't bother making a proper argument, all you do is post nonsense and pass it off as fact. You've confused something that was kayfabe as fact, ignored the timeline of events and blatantly lied about Ronda the biggest draw in combat history.

We're done here.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> ^^ Did you forget that Rollins wasn't Universal Champion in 2017 while Jinder Mahal was in the WWE Champion and stinking up the main event scene?


Yes or no, did Jinder draw better ratings for SmackDown than Seth is doing for Raw?


----------



## Ace

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Yes or no, did Jinder draw better ratings for SmackDown than Seth is doing for Raw?


 Didn't Jinder draw better ratings for SD than Becky did for Raw and SD on the RTWM?

Didn't Jinder draw better ratings than Bryan did for SD as world champion?

I can allude to numbers without context too. Heck, isn't Bryan the lowest drawing WWE/UC/WHC champion of all time with Kofi? (Anyone who is SD world champion is likely to take this title at least until the Fox deal).


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Yes or no, did Jinder draw better ratings for SmackDown than Seth is doing for Raw?


Here is the thing bro, I don't live in the past or blame Jinder for the ratings tanking in 2017 for SD. It was Vince. I don't blame Seth on Raw. Except for when posters blame talents for everything. 

Also the other guy, Ronda was not the top draw for the Combat History and when she was Raw Woman's Champion earlier this year, the rantings were still taking hits.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Ace said:


> Where do I start...
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> Ratings have been shit since November, the plan post SS was 100% Ronda/Becky. Charlotte only got involved in the mix a few weeks out from WM. Try again.
> 
> Kofi being world champion has had marginal impact on ratings, anyone else could be champion at the ratings would most likely be similar. I am someone who is not a fan of his or him being world champion, but the ratings would be the similar although I do think him being world champion is hurting ratings as he was a geek for most of his career but not to a great extent.
> 
> That was the kayfabe reason for opening...
> 
> May be the case, the match itself was pretty meh and the crowd was pretty dead come the match. Kofi/Bryan had more heat and was more over.


Point still stands she's been a blockbuster draw in her career unlike the proven rating kryptonites WWE keeps pushing.

Ratings have been shit for years. Why are you so focused on such a small window? If you believe the women being the focus for a couple months have more of an impact than Cena and Reigns being despised by 90% of the audience and still being shoved down throats for years then that's just ridiculous.

Kofi has been booked stronger kayfabe wise since EC than the women ever were so how is he only marginally killing ratings but de-pushed women are the real root cause? 

You think Brock wanted to sit around all night just to job out in 4 minutes? :lol These were reports from after the event that Brock wanted to leave early. Nothing to do with kayfabe. They never addressed that on-air.

The match did suck. But regardless it was still the right call. Bryan's momentum was destroyed by foolishly turning him heel and Kofi is not headline material.


----------



## DammitChrist

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> Here is the thing bro, I don't live in the past or blame Jinder for the ratings tanking in 2017 for SD. It was Vince. I don't blame Seth on Raw. Except for when posters blame talents for everything.
> 
> Also the other guy, Ronda was not the top draw for the Combat History and when she was Raw Woman's Champion earlier this year, the rantings were still taking hits.


I love how he ignores that ratings were higher during Seth Rollins's 1st WWE title reign in 2015 if he really wants to go down that path :lol

It's a moot point anyway because NOBODY (full-timers and part-timers) on the current roster is a TV draw.


----------



## Ace

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Point still stands she's been a blockbuster draw in her career unlike the proven rating kryptonites WWE keeps pushing.
> 
> Ratings have been shit for years. Why are you so focused on such a small window? If you believe the women being the focus for a couple months have more of an impact than Cena and Reigns being despised by 90% of the audience and still being shoved down throats for years then that's just ridiculous.
> 
> Kofi has been booked stronger kayfabe wise since EC than the women ever were so how is he only marginally killing ratings but de-pushed women are the real root cause?
> 
> You think Brock wanted to sit around all night just to job out in 4 minutes? :lol These were reports from after the event that Brock wanted to leave early. Nothing to do with kayfabe. They never addressed that on-air.
> 
> The match did suck. But regardless it was still the right call. Bryan's momentum was destroyed by foolishly turning him heel and Kofi is not headline material.


 Ronda did fuck all for WWE's ratings, her star power was hurt by those embarrassing losses and the time on the sidelines away from the limelight, between UFC and signing with WWE. 

People look at her as the overrated/overhyped girl who got humiliated in UFC and could no longer hang with the best women in the UFC and had to stoop to do something so lowly like WWE, which is about as respectable as porn to the mainstream/casuals. She never brought her MMA fanbase over, her success never really translated to the WWE. Her success with the UFC was an anomaly, not the norm. However, she deserves plaudits for being able to draw to such a high level.

The most significant thing she did business wise for the WWE was con dumb Fox execs into signing a TV deal with WWE, something they're deeply regretting at the moment - Ronda or no Ronda.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Ace said:


> Didn't Jinder draw better ratings for SD than Becky did for Raw and SD on the RTWM?
> 
> Didn't Jinder draw better ratings than Bryan did for SD as world champion?
> 
> I can allude to numbers without context too. Heck, isn't Bryan the lowest drawing WWE/UC/WHC champion of all time with Kofi? (Anyone who is SD world champion is likely to take this title at least until the Fox deal).


Yes. The Summer of Shanti was a huge success for ratings.

The ratings tanking should probably be attributed to AJ Styles and his never ending title reign. Taking the belt off Jinder was a huge mistake in hindsight.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

DammitC said:


> For the record, I want to address your post by following it up with this:
> 
> If the likes of Baron Corbin, Lacey Evans, Jinder Mahal, and Brock Lesnar win the world titles later this summer; and the ratings STILL keep declining (which I definitely expect will happen because the booking of the shows is still mediocre), then it's going to be HILARIOUS to see those posters (who are obsessed with blaming the current talents) suddenly change their tune. I'll be looking forward to see that for sure :lol
> 
> At least I'll be consistent with shifting the blame on Vince and the company for handcuffing their talents creativity-wise when they most likely win the titles.


Lacey already drew 600k more viewers than Seth and that was with Seth having the advantage of being on during the same hour as Taker.


----------



## Ace

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Yes. The Summer of Shanti was a huge success for ratings.
> 
> The ratings tanking should probably be attributed to AJ Styles and his never ending title reign. Taking the belt off Jinder was a huge mistake in hindsight.


 Still drew better than Bryan and Becky ever did for SD, don't both hold the record lowest rating for SD? :lol

Till this day the highest rated SD's feature AJ in the main event. If you were to make a top 10, I bet AJ would feature in at least half of them. It was during the natural peak period, but since we're ignoring context fuck it 

Shoving that big dick right in your face.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Yes. The Summer of Shanti was a huge success for ratings.
> 
> *The ratings tanking should probably be attributed to AJ Styles and his never ending title reign*. Taking the belt off Jinder was a huge mistake in hindsight.


Fucking this. A little hillbilly midget with the charisma of a cracked egg shell had one of the longest reigns in history, buried the fuck out of one of the most talented guys in the business (Joe) and didn't have one standout promo or match the entire time.

Even TNA for all their faults were smart enough to never make AJ THE guy. How Vince was stupid enough to do it is more baffling than anything. He resents anyone who became known outside WWE (unless its outside of wrestling). But AJ was somehow the exception despite being nothing more than Evan Bourne 2.0


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

last couple of pages are idiotic.


----------



## DammitChrist

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Fucking this. A little hillbilly midget with the charisma of a cracked egg shell had one of the longest reigns in history, buried the fuck out of one of the most talented guys in the business (Joe) and didn't have one standout promo or match the entire time.


AJ Styles is actually pretty damn charismatic :lol

He's been able to stay popular with the crowds in just about any wrestling promotion he's worked for.

Styles cut some decent promos during his WWE title reign, and he's had plenty of solid matches too.

His Last Man Standing match against Shinsuke Nakamura at Money in the Bank last year alone debunks your silly claim of him "not having any standout matches"


----------



## Ace

These Becky, Lacey Evans, Jinder and Corbin marks blowing smoke about ratings. 











Your favorites are a fucking meme for low ratings :lmao


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Ace said:


> Still drew better than Bryan and Becky ever did for SD, don't both hold the record lowest rating for SD? :lol
> 
> Till this day the highest rated SD's feature AJ in the main event. If you were to make a top 10, I bet AJ would feature in at least half of them. It was during the natural peak period, but since we're ignoring context fuck it
> 
> Shoving that big dick right in your face.


Yeah, I'm sure AJ was outdrawing The Rock & Steve Austin...



Ace said:


> These Becky, Lacey Evans, Jinder and Corbin marks blowing smoke about ratings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your favorites are a fucking meme for low ratings :lmao


I was going to say it's a similar physique to AJ's, but he's too shredded and isn't flabby. The arms are right though.


----------



## Ace

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Yeah, I'm sure AJ was outdrawing The Rock & Steve Austin...


 Clearly referring to post split, but whatever. Still holds true.










Don't feel bad, someones got to be the meme for low ratings.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

DammitC said:


> AJ Styles is actually pretty damn charismatic :lol
> 
> He's been able to stay popular with the crowds in just about any wrestling promotion he's worked for.
> 
> Styles cut some decent promos during his WWE title reign, and he's had plenty of solid matches too.
> 
> His Last Man Standing match against Shinsuke Nakamura at Money in the Bank last year alone debunks your silly claim of him "not having any standout matches"


Flipping a hood over your head is not charisma. Anytime you put AJ in a ring with actual stars he vanishes. When Flair came to TNA they tried to make AJ the new Nature Boy it is still the saddest thing I've ever seen in wrestling. He walked around with a robe on that was too big and started to do the WOOS. If it was October he could have been mistaken for a trick or treater.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

MAGA Styles is -9 on the charisma scale, slightly higher than Seth who takes the cake at -10.



nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Flipping a hood over your head is not charisma. Anytime you put AJ in a ring with actual stars he vanishes. When Flair came to TNA they tried to make AJ the new Nature Boy it is still the saddest thing I've ever seen in wrestling. He walked around with a robe on that was too big and started to do the WOOS. If it was October he could have been mistaken for a trick or treater.


:lmao

Fucking hell. Only TNA would try to present that hillbilly as the new Ric Flair :lol


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> AJ Styles is actually pretty damn charismatic :lol
> 
> He's been able to stay popular with the crowds in just about any wrestling promotion he's worked for.
> 
> Styles cut some decent promos during his WWE title reign, and he's had plenty of solid matches too.
> 
> His Last Man Standing match against Shinsuke Nakamura at Money in the Bank last year alone debunks your silly claim of him "not having any standout matches"


Is it your gimmick to overhype wrestlers who are weak on the microphone?

Styles is average on the mic. He's not dreadful, but he's not "decent" either. His charisma is nothing special either. It's one thing to be over with a super niche ROH, TNA, and modern WWE crowd. It's another to be over with the general audience. There is no proof that Styles appeals to the general audience. Thus his charisma is unproven. 

Overall, he isn't in the same league as the likes of Jericho, Flair, Angle, and HBK. Relatively small men who were strong on the microphone and had a certain amount of charisma.


----------



## DammitChrist

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Flipping a hood over your head is not charisma. Anytime you put AJ in a ring with actual stars he vanishes. When Flair came to TNA they tried to make AJ the new Nature Boy it is still the saddest thing I've ever seen in wrestling. He walked around with a robe on that was too big and started to do the WOOS. If it was October he could have been mistaken for a trick or treater.


Dude, it's pointless trying to tell you the truth about who's charismatic.

All you basically have to do is USE your fucking ears to hear the crowd reactions Styles has been receiving throughout his career.

It's pretty obvious at this point that you have no clue what charisma actually is. You only seem to know who's in the golden tier on that department, but not for anyone else :lol


----------



## Ace

We should have a rule if you're going to criticize someones ability to draw.

1) Their favorite can't be a fucking meme for low ratings and has gotten bodied by Nia Jaxx for it.
2) Their favorite has actually drawn shit as A side.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Is this the RAW thread? Holy geek wars.

People are missing the point. Ver much so as nobody is drawing in WWE right and that includes the WWE brand itself. You can assume which stars are drawing more than others (although without quarter-hour ratings, nobody is right.) but who fucking cares at this rate. The fact is nobody is saving the ratings and attendance from its current free fall.

The product is shit and it's for a variety of reasons. You are technically right. Yes, Women's Revolution was a rating disaster to court Ronda into WWE, who didn't help the ratings anyways. Yes, Seth and Kofi are awful draws as champions because their characters are so cold right now. Yes, the Attitude Era/Ruthless Aggression legends aren't drawing anymore because the fanbase is rapidly changing.

It's not just one individual or one thing in particular. It's a concerted effort of many bad results that have led us to where we are at now. Until people realize that, these pointless arguments will continue.


----------



## DammitChrist

raymond1985 said:


> Is it your gimmick to overhype wrestlers who are weak on the microphone?


Is it your gimmick to continue quoting me with your horrendous posts?



> Styles is average on the mic. He's not dreadful, but he's not "decent" either.


Nah, he can be decent on the mic. 

Anyway, that's EXACTLY what I've been saying about AJ Styles and Seth Rollins on that department. They range between average-to-good on the mic. I'd consider both men to be decent talkers, which is still their biggest weakness; but neither of them are actually "awful."



> His charisma is nothing special either. It's one thing to be over with a super niche ROH, TNA, and modern WWE crowd. It's another to be over with the general audience. There is no proof that Styles appeals to the general audience. Thus his charisma is unproven.


I can't believe you're STILL mistaking charisma for "drawing ability" :done

NOBODY on the current roster is a TV draw. Enough with you bringing up the casual/general audience in redundant topics like this. It's irrelevant because we're talking about CHARISMA, which is being able to inspire (positive) reactions out of other people and appeal to crowds due to having a special charm.



> Overall, he isn't in the same league as the likes of Jericho, Flair, Angle, and HBK. Relatively small men who were strong on the microphone and had a certain amount of charisma.


Why are you even bringing up these legends? I never even compared Styles to them.


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> Anyway, that's EXACTLY what I've been saying about AJ Styles and Seth Rollins on that department. They range between average-to-good on the mic. I'd consider both men to be decent talkers, which is still their biggest weakness; but neither of them are actually "awful."


Styles isn't awful. He's average. 

Rollins is awful. Especially for a main even performer. 

Your definition of charisma is bizarre. It's a waste of time even debating you on that subject. Now, back to your shrine.


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

Showstopper said:


> To be fair to Becky, it hasn't helped that she's been dumped with the human dumpster that is Lacey Evans. A ********* who is stuck in a time-warp thinking it's 1950. Talks like it's 1950, and wrestles in quicksand.
> 
> Worthless, boring, trash.


Becky is garbage. Lacey is way better


----------



## rexmundi

Props to Smackdown for beating RAW hour 3 both in demo and viewers. :banderas :Cocky


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

deathvalleydriver2 said:


> Becky is garbage. Lacey is way better


Knock it off.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

rexmundi said:


> Props to Smackdown for beating RAW hour 3 both in demo and viewers. :banderas :Cocky


A 2 hour show lost to a 3 hour show that went up against Game 5 of the NBA Finals while SD went up against NOTHING.

:mj4

SD :buried



deathvalleydriver2 said:


> Becky is garbage. Lacey is way better


I'm convinced!


----------



## rexmundi

Showstopper said:


> A 2 hour show lost to a 3 hour show that went up against Game 5 of the NBA Finals while SD went up against NOTHING.
> 
> :mj4
> 
> SD :buried
> 
> 
> 
> I'm convinced!


Why do you care so much? Are you threatened that a show headlined by Seth died in the ratings, that the worst two Hour 3 RAW ratings (this one and the one with aj) had him in the main event? Don't take things so seriously, kiddo. :Cocky


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

rexmundi said:


> Why do you care so much? Are you threatened that a show headlined by Seth died in the ratings, that the worst two Hour 3 RAW ratings (this one and the one with aj) had him in the main event? Don't take things so seriously, kiddo. :Cocky


"Care so much" or adding context to a post that desperately needed it, "kiddo."


----------



## DammitChrist

raymond1985 said:


> . Your definition of charisma is bizarre.


Oh, I'm very aware that your definition of charisma is questionable.



> It's a waste of time even debating you on that subject.


The feeling is mutual with you, mate 



> Now, back to your shrine.


Go back to bitching about wrestlers you dislike on a daily basis, and harassing me with your endless quotations. 

Those are pretty much the only "good" qualities you have on here.


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

WINNING said:


> Knock it off.


Never, Becky is a steaming pile of garbage


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

deathvalleydriver2 said:


> Never, Becky is a steaming pile of garbage


She can be that and she's still miles ahead of Lacey, my guy.


----------



## Jedah

All this pissing about particulars is missing the bigger picture that the system is broken and it's going to take a systematic fix.

Of course, they won't do it. So they'll continue to burn as they deserve. The product is such shit. Even NXT is horrendous right now.


----------



## VitoCorleoneX

this thread is cancerous.

Wrasslin aint cool anymore and the overall product (storylines,bad writing...) drives people away.
Blame WWE dont blame one person.

Next year if nothing changes we will likely see Raw or Smackdown going below 1.8 and it will not matter who the champion will be during that time.


You can give Steve Austin or The Rock the world title tommorow the ratings still wouldnt change. 2.5+ wont happen.

I miss the good old days where the WF blamed Punk for the shit ratings despite being featured in the midcard. 
atleast then people here used logic nowadays people just bash the wrestler that they dont like and blame them for the shit ratings.


Btw: aj styles reign was a midcard title reign. He wasnt presented as the main event. there were times (must have been the summer of 2018) where he was featured only 5-10 minutes on smackdown as champion. 
the shit endings of his ppv matches, fighting in the midcard of ppvs against midcard guys like rusev,having endless rematches, having a too long championship reign... i can go on and on but keep blaming the wrestler instead of the shit booking and writing.
you can be the most charismatic wrestler/talker in the world if you dont get a good story,good booking and good writing you will fail.
The Draws from the Attitude Era would draw shit ratings if they wouldnt had good stories,good booking,creative writing and cool ideas.


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

WINNING said:


> She can be that and she's still miles ahead of Lacey, my guy.


Lacey is way better and hotter


----------



## Jonhern

Showstopper said:


> Imagine not placing any blame on the top storyline during the most important time of year and what traditionally sets the tone for the rest of the year after WM.
> 
> :lmao :lmao :lmao
> 
> Yeah, the top storyline going into WM and what main-evented WM for the first time ever shouldn't get any blame. :lmao :lmao
> 
> I mean, if you want to blame Vince for going in that direction instead of the actual talents involved; fine. But you can't say looking back on it now that it paid off for WWE's weekly TV shows. It simply has not.


How is that Becky's fault? She was hot at the time and Vince fucked up with the overly convoluted storyline so he could insert Charlotte into the main event. Becky didn't write that shit story line. They took her from a tweener to a bland babyface. Vince fucked that up, not the talent.


----------



## llj

Guys, don't waste your time fighting over the WWE product. It's just not worth it anymore, they don't really deserve that kind of attention.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Jedah said:


> All this pissing about particulars is missing the bigger picture that the system is broken and it's going to take a systematic fix.
> 
> Of course, they won't do it. So they'll continue to burn as they deserve. The product is such shit. Even NXT is horrendous right now.


Are you not enjoying Shayna's Triple H '03 esque title reign my brother? :lol

Yeah, the tv is trash. Takeovers are still fun though.


----------



## Jedah

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Are you not enjoying Shayna's Triple H '03 esque title reign my brother? :lol
> 
> Yeah, the tv is trash. Takeovers are still fun though.


Hard to care about the Takeovers when the stories going into them suck. The matches are good of course but still.

And it isn't even just Shayna anymore. If it were just her it would be bad but not horrendous because it would have other things to make up for it, as it did for most of last year, but it doesn't anymore. Almost everything is a mess. The only one that's been really good this year has been Dream. I thought Cole winning would start to fix things but so far, it looks like it won't.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> Aren't you a Becky fan? She's the FIRST WOMAN TO MAIN EVENT A WM EVER. And even after making history, can't draw anything already.
> 
> Brock didn't steady shit. Raw's ratings were trash then, too. He literally made no difference for awhile now and they pay him more than anyone. Another sunken cost, just like this year's WM main event. A complete waste.


Stop lying. We have rating numbers. Brock was personally responsible for about 500,000 viewers.

From January thru April, Raw was around 20-30% off from last year. Brock comes back in May, and that number rebounds back to 5-10% off from last year. He leaves this past week, and boom back to 22% off last year's number.

BROCK IS THE ONLY DRAW WWE HAS. He's the only wrestler people will tune in for (or at least not tune out).

Seth Rollins is fn trash. You may like him. DammicC may like him. But you guys are in the vast minority.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> Stop lying. We have rating numbers. Brock was personally responsible for about 500,000 viewers.
> 
> From January thru April, Raw was around 20-30% off from last year. Brock comes back in May, and that number rebounds back to 5-10% off from last year. He leaves this past week, and boom back to 22% off last year's number.
> 
> BROCK IS THE ONLY DRAW WWE HAS. He's the only wrestler people will tune in for (or at least not tune out).
> 
> Seth Rollins is fn trash. You may like him. DammicC may like him. But you guys are in the vast minority.


Minority? Yeah, the fans at these shows every week that cheer him every week really display a minority. Sure. Your 'info' is downright hilarious. *You use this week as some kind of metric for Raw when Raw went up against game 5 of the NBA Finals.*

Brock gets paid more than anyone else on the roster, gets advertised in advance, and still doesn't draw shit. Fact. Calling anyone in WWE in 2019 a ratings draw is hilarious. The full-timers don't draw, I agree with you there. But neither do the part-timers. You know, the part-timers who make more money than the full-timers and are actually from past eras that were booked well unlike the current full-timers. And they STILL can't draw, either, and some of those guys like Taker, Brock, and Goldberg are actually big names, and they also don't draw. So, please, spare me.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> There is literally no proof of this. Your 'info' is downright hilarious. *You use this week as some kind of metric for Raw when Raw went up against game 5 of the NBA Finals.*
> 
> Brock gets paid more than anyone else on the roster, gets advertised in advance, and still doesn't draw shit. Fact.


I already did this analysis in the Raw thread. How can you dispute any of this?


April 2018, they did 3.35, 3.92, 3.62, 3.10
April 2019, they did 2.64, 2.92, 2.67, 2.37

Lost on average 847,000 viewers. Now, what is happening in May after they brought Brock back?

May 2018, they did 3.06, 2.69, 2.74, 2.67, 2.49
May 2019, they did 2.15, 2.24, 2.35, 2.52, 2.19

Brock didn't come back till after the 2.15 show...that show was all due to Seth/AJ being non-draws. For Brock's 4 shows in May, they averaged a loss of 310,000 viewers.

Then you see Brock not on the show Monday, and they are back down 22%.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> I already did this analysis in the Raw thread. How can you dispute any of this?
> 
> 
> April 2018, they did 3.35, 3.92, 3.62, 3.10
> April 2019, they did 2.64, 2.92, 2.67, 2.37
> 
> Lost on average 847,000 viewers. Now, what is happening in May after they brought Brock back?
> 
> May 2018, they did 3.06, 2.69, 2.74, 2.67, 2.49
> May 2019, they did 2.15, 2.24, 2.35, 2.52, 2.19
> 
> Brock didn't come back till after the 2.15 show...that show was all due to Seth/AJ being non-draws. For Brock's 4 shows in May, they averaged a loss of 310,000 viewers.
> 
> Then you see Brock not on the show Monday, and they are back down 22%.


Raw's ratings have been going down every year for awhile now. 2018 to 2019 isn't the first year ratings went down for WWE. You're also once again just like last time not responding to my past point about the NBA Finals this week. Raw being down this week has to do with going up against the NBA Finals, not anything with Brock Lesnar.

In past weeks, they advertised Brock to possibly cash in one week on one of the Champs, and then the following week to definitely cash in last week on Raw, and both times Raw's ratings were trash, even with Brock advertised a full week in advance.

So, Brock gets paid the most and has no impact on the ratings whatsoever. Therefore, he is a big drain on the company from a salary to ratings standpoint. He's also not even over-exposed every week like the full-timers are, and he still isn't drawing. What an awful investment.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> So, Brock gets paid the most and has no impact on the ratings whatsoever. .


How can you say 500,000 viewers isn't an impact on the ratings? That's just retarded. We've seen the it over 4 FUCKING WEEKS.

Yes, WWE ratings have been going down on a year to year basis. But under Seth Rollins and the women being pushed, they were losing 20-30% of their audience from the prior year. They fucking TANIKED in 2019. 

20-30% is a helluva lot more than 5-10%. How fucking retarded do you have to be to not understand basic math?

Brock Lesnar is responsible for 500,000 more people tuning in to Raw, than if they continue to push a fucking geek that nobody gives a shit about except apparently you and DammitC


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> How can you say 500,000 viewers isn't an impact on the ratings? That's just retarded. We've seen the it over 4 FUCKING WEEKS.
> 
> Yes, WWE ratings have been going down on a year to year basis. But under Seth Rollins and the women being pushed, they were losing 20-30% of their audience from the prior year. They fucking TANIKED in 2019.
> 
> 20-30% is a helluva lot more than 5-10%. How fucking retarded do you have to be to not understand basic math?
> 
> Brock Lesnar is responsible for 500,000 more people tuning in to Raw, than if they continue to push a fucking geek that nobody gives a shit about except apparently you and DammitC


Brock Lesnar when advertised multiple times a week in advance hasn't increased shit. Raw is still always the same, unless they are going up against an NBA Playoff game this year. Brock hasn't made one iota of a difference the few times he has been there. The numbers are there for all to see. Go in the Raw thread and look up the weeks he was there. Still no impact and always in the same range.

How you never address the NBA Finals game from this past week is hilarious. It's blatantly obvious that you are completely avoiding that. Gee, I wonder why.


----------



## ClintDagger

Randy Lahey said:


> How can you say 500,000 viewers isn't an impact on the ratings? That's just retarded. We've seen the it over 4 FUCKING WEEKS.
> 
> Yes, WWE ratings have been going down on a year to year basis. But under Seth Rollins and the women being pushed, they were losing 20-30% of their audience from the prior year. They fucking TANIKED in 2019.
> 
> 20-30% is a helluva lot more than 5-10%. How fucking retarded do you have to be to not understand basic math?
> 
> Brock Lesnar is responsible for 500,000 more people tuning in to Raw, than if they continue to push a fucking geek that nobody gives a shit about except apparently you and DammitC


Brock certainly has a positive impact on the viewership. The data is there to see. Is it a huge difference? No. You say it’s 500,000. In my research I think it’s closer to half that with the ability to retain more into H2 and H3 if he’s teased as doing something interesting. I find it odd that some don’t want to admit that. If people want to say that Brock’s positive impact is nothing special and not worth what they pay him I can certainly listen to that. But to say not even a single extra viewer tunes in or sticks around for Brock is mind boggling to me.


----------



## llj

Continuing the RAW thread, I don't mind the argument that Brock is a draw. He probably really is. The problem is he rarely appears and expecting him to appear regularly, as champion or otherwise, is a waste of time. My exact problem is that with Brock. People say Brock is the answer, but he can't be because he's not a full timer on TV. He may appear once in a while, and this past month he's appeared more than he has in a long time, but for the most part he can't be counted on specifically because we KNOW he won't appear enough times in a year to help the ratings problem. Once they give him the title, he will disappear again so that totally wastes the argument of Brock being a draw because a draw needs to appear to turn things around

Now if you could guarantee that Brock would start appearing every week, then I could see the argument for putting all the titles back on him. I wouldn't necessarily agree with that booking but it would at least have some logic. The problem is you can't argue for the drawing power of someone who is guaranteed to NOT appear.

If we want the title off Kofi or Seth, I'm cool with that notion. I don't really care about them enough to be invested if they are champions or not. But I wish people would suggest other alternatives than Brock. People who can actually make a difference on a weekly basis.


----------



## SPCDRI

Randy Lahey said:


> How fucking retarded do you have to be to not understand basic math?
> 
> Brock Lesnar is responsible for 500,000 more people tuning in to Raw, than if they continue to push a fucking geek that nobody gives a shit about except apparently you and DammitC


Brock was also champion starting in 2017, and RAW viewership started shitting the bed in 2018. His championship reign took RAW to a point where hourly viewership numbers were hitting all-time lows. Shield and MMA people cratered viewership. They were and still are the biggest angles in the company and the company is in the toilet with viewership. 

People will bash on Shield members and Becky Lynch all the live long day for lousy ratings and let Brock and Ronda skate, but it just doesn't work like that. It takes two to tango, buster. Who were their dance partners?


----------



## SPCDRI

I think tonight will be the 6th Smackdown out of the last 8 to be below 2 million and FOX wants 3.25 million people for Smackdown. 

Last episode was 11 percent down from last year, this one will probably close to low double digits down from last year, too. I don't know if this Smackdown product as it currently stands EVER hits 3.25 million after the first few "honeymoon" months, much less for a full calendar year. After Christmas, the show is going to shed so many viewers it'll be nutty.


----------



## rexmundi

smackdown ain't drawing jack for ratings especially when it had probably over 12 minutes of raw recap.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 6/18/19 Vs 6/11/19 ):
1.859M Vs 1.930M ( - 0.071M / - 3.68% )
0.560D Vs 0.600D

SDL Vs RAW:
1.859M Vs 2.235M ( - 0.376M / 83.18% )
0.560D Vs 0.707D*

*Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 8th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 6/18/19 Vs 6/19/18 ):
1.859M Vs 2.315M ( - 0.456M / - 19.70% )
0.560D Vs 0.780D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.315M Vs 2.903M ( - 0.588M / 79.75% )
0.780D Vs 0.980D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*


----------



## Fearless Viper

Under 2m twice in a row?


----------



## rexmundi

Mr. Hour 3 bringing his magic to Tuesdays now. :Cocky


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Under 2m 2 weeks in a row without Lacey as a wildcard. Seth proving once again he is the ultimate anti-draw :heston


----------



## RainmakerV2

Kofi and Seth LOL please end this experiment.


----------



## Chrome

Both Raw and SDL losing 20% of their audience in 1 year.


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

bad Show .. Deserve low ratings


----------



## sara sad

That's what happens when Charlotte isn't on TV.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

sara sad said:


> That's what happens when Charlotte isn't on TV.


As well as a bad show. :lol


----------



## RainmakerV2

sara sad said:


> That's what happens when Charlotte isn't on TV.


No Charlotte, No Lacey and two geek champs = no buyz


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Only a show that geeks with face-stomachs and bald heads and geeky women who think it's 1950 could save.

Oh, wait. That's right. Those geeks can't even get reactions at shows, nevermind draw.

:mj4


----------



## ClintDagger

Why not at least try to build up someone who is more charisma / promo centric than workrate and give them a run? Even if it’s just on one of the shows? This Kofi stuff especially is straight up business suicide.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Showstopper said:


> Only a show that geeks with face-stomachs and bald heads and geeky women who think it's 1950 could save.
> 
> Oh, wait. That's right. Those geeks can't even get reactions at shows, nevermind draw.
> 
> :mj4


Lol a guy you worship is being booked like a badass destroying the roster with chairs on both shows, with the belt, and is bleeding viewers and you celebrate it. Shits weird. I dont get it.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

RainmakerV2 said:


> Lol a guy you worship is being booked like a badass destroying the roster with chairs on both shows, with the belt, and is bleeding viewers and you celebrate it. Shits weird. I dont get it.


Me shitting on the other 'options' isn't celebrating anything. :lmao Just wait for the day someone else gets the title and the numbers once again goes down like they always do. If the mountains of evidence over the years in this era and plenty of wrestlers coming out saying the same thing isn't enough for a couple of 'posters' on here, then we'll continue to go around in circles. No hair off my back.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Showstopper said:


> Me shitting on the other 'options' isn't celebrating anything. :lmao Just wait for the day someone else gets the title and the numbers once again goes down like they always do. If the mountains of evidence over the years in this era and plenty of wrestlers coming out saying the same thing isn't enough for a couple of 'posters' on here, then we'll continue to go around in circles. No hair off my back.


If Corbin, Lashley, Drew, etc were champ, being booked like Kofi and Rollins and numbers were what they were, you would all be all over them blaming them for being boring and havung no charisma. But because its two smark idols in Kofi and Seth, "well of course it isnt their fault, WWE is dying, Vince is senile, how dare you question the champs who are decimating the entire roster!" The champ gets the credit, the champ gets the blame. Thats the way wrestling has always been until recently where now EVERYTHING is Vince's fault even when he books IWC heros like superman badasses and gives them world titles lmao. Its so dumb. Just be fair. Thats all.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

RainmakerV2 said:


> If Corbin, Lashley, Drew, etc were champ, being booked like Kofi and Rollins and numbers were what they were, you would all be all over them blaming them for being boring and havung no charisma. But because its two smark idols in Kofi and Seth, "well of course it isnt their fault, WWE is dying, Vince is senile, how dare you question the champs who are decimating the entire roster!" The champ gets the credit, the champ gets the blame. Thats the way wrestling has always been until recently where now EVERYTHING is Vince's fault even when he books IWC heros like superman badasses and gives them world titles lmao. Its so dumb. Just be fair. Thats all.


I used to blame Reigns back in the day, I'll be honest. But that was a few years ago now, though. We now have mountains of evidence that whatever they do, it doesn't draw ratings. So, no, I wouldn't blame them. Only one I blame these days is Vince and it's been that way for awhile now. Don't act like you guys don't troll. Hell, one guy (not you) even admitted it the other day in Rants.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Showstopper said:


> I used to blame Reigns back in the day, I'll be honest. But that was a few years ago now, though. We now have mountains of evidence that whatever they do, it doesn't draw ratings. So, no, I wouldn't blame them. Only one I blame these days is Vince and it's been that way for awhile now. Don't act like you guys don't troll. Hell, one of you guys even admitted it the other day in Rants.


Im not trolling. Rollins and Kofi constantly decimating everyone they face is legitimately affecting my enjoyment of the show. Theres no reason to even watch the main event of a Raw or SD anymore. Kofi and Seth are going over clean with their finish. Every time. And now they're doing it 2 falls in a row on every show LOL. I have no reason to lie about it or troll you.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

You were just blaming the women's revolution last week :lol

Now it's Vince's fault? unkout

And if it's Vince's fault then that's because he pushes charisma vacuums like your rodent sounding superkick-spam idol. HBK was charismatic as hell and could cut a damn good promo. You don't have to pretend to like everyone who butchers his moves.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

RainmakerV2 said:


> Im not trolling. Rollins and Kofi constantly decimating everyone they face is legitimately affecting my enjoyment of the show. Theres no reason to even watch the main event of a Raw or SD anymore. Kofi and Seth are going over clean with their finish. Every time. And now they're doing it 2 falls in a row on every show LOL. I have no reason to lie about it or troll you.


I didn't say it was you that said you were trolling. I know it wasn't you. But it still makes it somewhat difficult to take some of these posts seriously.

On last week's Raw Rollins lost to KO in the main event by DQ...as a World Champion. People bitch and moan that they want World Champions that are booked strong and whatnot, and when they get it...they still bitch and moan.

People should just be honest. They don't want World Champions that are booked strong. They want *their favorites* as World Champion booked strong. Let's be honest. Big difference.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Showstopper said:


> I didn't say it was you that said you were trolling. I know it wasn't you. But it still makes it somewhat difficult to take some of these posts seriously.
> 
> On last week's Raw Rollins lost to KO in the main event by DQ...as a World Champion. People bitch and moan that they want World Champions that are booked strong and whatnot, and when they get it...they still bitch and moan.
> 
> *People should just be honest. They don't want World Champions that are booked strong. They want *their favorites* as World Champion booked strong.* Let's be honest. Big difference.


I won't argue against that statement at all.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> You were just blaming the women's revolution last week :lol
> 
> Now it's Vince's fault? unkout
> 
> And if it's Vince's fault then that's because he pushes charisma vacuums like your rodent sounding superkick-spam idol. HBK was charismatic as hell and could cut a damn good promo. You don't have to pretend to like everyone who butchers his moves.


If people want to blame talents, then they damn sure should place a good part of the blame on the biggest storyline going in to WM by MILES. Kofi/Bryan was the second biggest angle going into WM, and Rollins/Brock was third. I blame Vince. But if people want to blame the talents, they should blame at least part of the blame on the history making part of the show this year that got the most time from January-WM.

I don't know where you got this idea that I only like Seth because he does a superkick. :lmao If that were the case, I'd be obsessed with the Young Bucks. :lmao What exactly is there to like about Lacey? She can't talk for shit. Can't wrestle for shit. Can't do shit for shit. 95% of the forum agrees. She sucks cock.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Showstopper said:


> I didn't say it was you that said you were trolling. I know it wasn't you. But it still makes it somewhat difficult to take some of these posts seriously.
> 
> On last week's Raw Rollins lost to KO in the main event by DQ...as a World Champion. People bitch and moan that they want World Champions that are booked strong and whatnot, and when they get it...they still bitch and moan.
> 
> People should just be honest. They don't want World Champions that are booked strong. They want *their favorites* as World Champion booked strong. Let's be honest. Big difference.


He then fucking demolished them with chairs and KO holding a victory over Seth was never mentioned again lmao. 

And admittedly, I have more of a problem with Kofi than Seth. That shit is just a joke.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

RainmakerV2 said:


> He then fucking demolished them with chairs and KO holding a victory over Seth was never mentioned again lmao.
> 
> And admittedly, I have more of a problem with Kofi than Seth. That shit is just a joke.


And he still lost on a random fucking TV match for no reason. Over the recent years, that is why no one takes WWE Champions booking seriously. They've lost too much on TV in recent years. WWE should've fixed that YEARS ago.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Showstopper said:


> If people want to blame talents, then they damn sure should place a good part of the blame on the biggest storyline going in to WM by MILES. Kofi/Bryan was the second biggest angle going into WM, and Rollins/Brock was third. I blame Vince. But if people want to blame the talents, they should blame at least part of the blame on the history making part of the show this year that got the most time from January-WM.
> 
> I don't know where you got this idea that I only like Seth because he does a superkick. :lmao If that were the case, I'd be obsessed with the Young Bucks. :lmao What exactly is there to like about Lacey? She can't talk for shit. Can't wrestle for shit. Can't do shit for shit. 95% of the forum agrees. She sucks cock.


It was the biggest storyline because Ronda and Becky are bigger stars than Rollins or Kingston and Bryan's momentum was dead after he turned heel. 

What alternate universe are you guys watching Raw on to say Lacey can't talk? She bodies Becky every single time they have a promo exchange. She shakes off what chants like a pro. 

Have you heard Rollins on a microphone? The guy's voice is unbearable. Literally makes my skin crawl. I've never heard anything that bad before. There's a reason he draws the lowest rated segments every week. It's not a coincidence his promo with AJ (another bad talker) was the lowest rated segment in history. What 95% of this forum likes doesn't represent the majority of wrestling fans. If it did ratings would be soaring because Seth and Kofi have been dominating the product for 2+ months in-case you haven't noticed.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> It was the biggest storyline because Ronda and Becky are bigger stars than Rollins or Kingston and Bryan's momentum was dead after he turned heel.


It was the biggest storyline because Rousey and Becky were sent to BOTH shows on a weekly basis and it got the most attention from Vince and he wanted the women to main event because he thought it would bring in more female viewers and more viewers in general because something was going to happen at the biggest show of the year that never happened before; the women main-eventing. Vince was wrong again. Big shock these days. And Vince being lost these days and being the biggest problem is backed up by Punk, Moxley, Batista, and other former employees.



> What alternate universe are you guys watching Raw on to say Lacey can't talk? She bodies Becky every single time they have a promo exchange. She shakes off what chants like a pro.


Before Lacey this week, I can't even remember the last time a wrestler got 'What?' chants. That pretty much sums that up. She's dog shit. Oh, and she talks extremely slow like she's an idiot and like it's 1950. THAT is unbearable.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

I'm not gonna blame "Mr Ratings" for this one seeing as he wasn't advertised for the show

:rollins

Bad product is bad product. In all truth it really doesn't matter who they feature, they 50/50 everyone to the point where they have a roster of geeks.


----------



## The XL 2

So I guess Goldberg did draw at least a little bit, especially considering it was only a promo for a one off match that nobody was going to watch.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Showstopper said:


> It was the biggest storyline because Rousey and Becky were sent to BOTH shows on a weekly basis and it got the most attention from Vince and he wanted the women to main event because he thought it would bring in more female viewers and more viewers in general because something was going to happen at the biggest show of the year that never happened before; the women main-eventing. Vince was wrong again. Big shock these days. And Vince being lost these days and being the biggest problem is backed up by Punk, Moxley, Batista, and other former employees.
> 
> 
> 
> Before Lacey this week, I can't even remember the last time a wrestler got 'What?' chants. That pretty much sums that up. She's dog shit. Oh, and she talks extremely slow like she's an idiot and like it's 1950. THAT is unbearable.


He backed himself into a corner by putting all his eggs into the baskets of Bork (part-timer), Reigns (failure) and Rollins (anti-draw). If he'd push guys like Miz and Joe who can actually captivate an audience with their promos and sell a match with words he could have had a worthy main event.

Vince is a problem because he always chooses the wrong people to strap the rocket to. That's why the only talented member of the Shield left.

Funny how she went from getting "no reaction" according to people like you to being the only heel capable of drawing what chants now. Keep spinning.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> He backed himself into a corner by putting all his eggs into the baskets of Bork (part-timer), Reigns (failure) and Rollins (anti-draw). If he'd push guys like Miz and Joe who can actually captivate an audience with their promos and sell a match with words he could have had a worthy main event.
> 
> Vince is a problem because he always chooses the wrong people to strap the rocket to. That's why the only talented member of the Shield left.
> 
> Funny how she went from getting "no reaction" according to people like you to being the only heel capable of drawing what chants now. Keep spinning.


If he pushed anyone else on the roster, the ratings would be exactly the same, too. Don't worry. We will all see that come to fruition some time this year when there are new Champions. 

Yeah, be proud of those 'What' chants. The one chant that wrestlers have admitted that they legit hate. It's literal go-away heat. :lmao No one is paying attention to her when she speaks. That's why they chant it. Spin that.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Showstopper said:


> If he pushed anyone else on the roster, the ratings would be exactly the same, too. Don't worry. We will all see that come to fruition some time this year when there are new Champions.
> 
> Yeah, be proud of those 'What' chants. The one chant that wrestlers have admitted that they legit hate. It's literal go-away heat. :lmao No one is paying attention to her when she speaks. That's why they chant it. Spin that.


After years of forcing the 2 most generic main eventers in wrestling history down everyone's throats it wouldn't surprise me. Rollins and Reigns have chased away too many fans who are too turned off by them to give the show a chance again.

Rollins has channel changing heat as proven by his involvement in the lowest rated segments in Raw history. Getting what chants from the idiots in the crowds these days who chant "THIS IS AWESOME" every time someone does a superkick ain't so bad by comparison :ciampa

The low IQ fans who claim to hate the product and then show up to chant BURN IT DOWN. Let me show Vince how much I hate his show by buying a ticket to Raw and cheering the guy he pushes as FOTC :lol


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

_*Still arguing about Seth Rollins and Kofi Kingston being responsible for the ratings. Only pesants do that shit every single week. It's a like tune that some people like to continue playing until it gets old. Just like these trolls on these threads. When someone as good as Showstopper, Ace and rest of the sane posters tells the truth, these ignorant poster trolls like to ignore it and go into their own agenda. 

PS: A moment from the King Slayer, Buffy The Vampire Slayer. Dig it. *_


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> After years of forcing the 2 most generic main eventers in wrestling history down everyone's throats it wouldn't surprise me. Rollins and Reigns have chased away too many fans who are too turned off by them to give the show a chance again.
> 
> Rollins has channel changing heat as proven by his involvement in the lowest rated segments in Raw history. Getting what chants from the idiots in the crowds these days who chant "THIS IS AWESOME" every time someone does a superkick ain't so bad by comparison :ciampa
> 
> The low IQ fans who claim to hate the product and then show up to chant BURN IT DOWN. Let me show Vince how much I hate his show by buying a ticket to Raw and cheering the guy he pushes as FOTC :lol


Probably. Exactly what happened when Brock was Champion for as long he was. Down and down every single week of that full year+; for the guy who gets paid the most, too. Another genius idea. Getting what chants is go away heat. Why does Lacey get go away heat? Because even though wrestling fans don't agree on much, awhole hell of alot agree that Lacey is trash. Don't worry, when she is Champion and ratings either don't change or go down even more, it will be called out every single week on here by a bunch of people. It's coming. 'Burn it down' or any of the corny phrases today will never be as awful as speaking as slow as an autist that likes to pretend it's 1950. :mj4


----------



## DammitChrist

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> _*Still arguing about Seth Rollins and Kofi Kingston being responsible for the ratings. Only pesants do that shit every single week. *_




Yep, I'll also add in the low IQ-anti-"smarks" who are guilty of doing that on a daily basis here :jericho2


----------



## ClintDagger

Everyone saying there’s nothing they can do, and the ratings are destined to decline no matter what; well they did improve YoY for the RTWM 2018 which means it is possible to reverse the trend. Obviously they bungled everything coming out of that Mania and a lot of stuff at that Mania itself. But at least it’s something they should look at to see 1) why did it improve, and 2) why couldn’t they sustain or build on it.

This “nobody draws” nonsense is part defeatist attitude and part hurt feelings from fans that don’t want to admit that what they like doesn’t jive with the broader fan base. That shit needs to be dropped. There are formulas that are better or worse than other formulas. Clearly the one they are using right now is not in the “better” category. So try something else.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

ClintDagger said:


> Everyone saying there’s nothing they can do, and the ratings are destined to decline no matter what; well they did improve YoY for the RTWM 2018 which means it is possible to reverse the trend. Obviously they bungled everything coming out of that Mania and a lot of stuff at that Mania itself. But at least it’s something they should look at to see 1) why did it improve, and 2) why couldn’t they sustain or build on it.
> 
> *This “nobody draws” nonsense is part defeatist attitude and part hurt feelings from fans that don’t want to admit that what they like doesn’t jive with the broader fan base*. That shit needs to be dropped. There are formulas that are better or worse than other formulas. Clearly the one they are using right now is not in the “better” category. So try something else.


:clap :clap :clap

Instead of wanting to give different wrestlers a chance these people just want to see Rollins, Styles, Kingston and guys of that ilk play hot potato with the belts.

The complete dismissal of guys like Corbin without even being willing to give them a chance is telling. Seth has been given the ball, fumbled it and face planted. He's clearly not a guy who can improve business, but because he's idolized by most of WF everyone is afraid to say it. Groupthink mentality at its finest.


----------



## DammitChrist

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> :clap :clap :clap
> 
> Instead of wanting to give different wrestlers a chance these people just want to see Rollins, Styles, Kingston and guys of that ilk play hot potato with the belts.
> 
> The complete dismissal of guys like Corbin without even being willing to give them a chance is telling. Seth has been given the ball, fumbled it and face planted. He's clearly not a guy who can improve business, but because he's idolized by most of WF everyone is afraid to say it. Groupthink mentality at its finest.


Seriously, what part of no single wrestler on the current roster is going to save the ratings do you STILL fail to understand? :sodone

The ratings will still be shit no matter who they push. It's baffling that there are some folks here who STILL don't get this in 2019.

Edit:

Oh, and for the record, this isn't even about having a defeatist attitude. It's called being a fucking realist.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

DammitC said:


> Seriously, what part of no single wrestler on the current roster is going to save the ratings do you STILL fail to understand? :sodone
> 
> The ratings will still be shit no matter who they push. It's baffling that there are some folks here who STILL don't get this in 2019.


The only guys who ever get pushed are spot monkey idiots I can't stand or big charisma vacuum dorks like Reigns and ADR.

When WWE starts pushing a group of guys I'm a fan of as their top stars and ratings don't budge then I'll take the L. Until then I stand by what I say that the choice of who they push is what's killing ratings. I speak from my own experience as a viewer and seeing everyone I hate winning titles while everyone I like gets buried and I imagine there are plenty of other fans who feel the same way.


----------



## Ace

Lmfao that's an all time low against nothing???

:lmao :lmao


----------



## Chrome

Ace said:


> Lmfao that's an all time low against nothing???
> 
> :lmao :lmao


Yep:



> Last night’s episode of WWE Smackdown (6/18) on USA Network drew a 1.27 rating, an all-time low non-holiday rating and nearly as low as the Dec. 25 episode late last year which drew a 1.24.
> 
> Total viewership was 1.859 million, down from 1.930 million last week. It’s the sixth time in the last eight weeks Smackdown dipped below 2 million viewers.
> 
> One year ago, Smackdown drew a 1.97 rating, a drop of over 35 percent.
> 
> The male 18-34 demographic dropped to a 0.34, the lowest demo rating ever for WWE and a drop of 50 percent from Raw the night before. One year ago, the same 18-34 demo was 0.96. That’s a 65 percent drop.
> 
> We’ll see next week if this was an aberration or a sign of WWE further turning off the core audience that Fox is counting on this fall.
> 
> The ten week rolling average total rating is 1.45. One year ago that rolling average was 1.70. This is not part of an inevitable consistent decline in cable viewership. In fact, the ten week rolling average two years ago was 1.63, so last year at this time ratings were up compared the year before. The average so far this year for Smackdown is 1.51. One year ago the average was 1.76.
> 
> Smackdown was built around advertising Bayley on “A Moment of Bliss” and Xavier Woods vs. Dolph Ziggler. They also added Seth Rollins & Kofi Kingston vs. Kevin Owens & Sami Zayn in a match announced during the program as the main event.
> 
> This is the type of number that should grab the attention of Fox executives, if the decline since signing their huge deal with WWE last year hasn’t already. It was yet another week that Roman Reigns appeared on Raw but did not appear on Smackdown, his supposed new home show after the Superstar Shake-up. The Wildcard Rule was meant to add star power to both shows along with fresh match-ups, but it’s turned Smackdown into basically the fourth and fifth hour of Raw with many of the same wrestlers appearing and recycling their material with small tweaks from the night before. It doesn’t seem to be working well.
> 
> The TV ratings media is also taking note. The TV By the Numbers headline reads: “Tuesday cable ratings: ‘The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills’ unseats the WWE.”


Goddamn lol.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Clearly they need more Shane segments. :heyman6



nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> The only guys who ever get pushed are spot monkey idiots I can't stand or big charisma vacuum dorks like Reigns and ADR.
> 
> When WWE starts pushing a group of guys I'm a fan of as their top stars and ratings don't budge then I'll take the L. Until then I stand by what I say that the choice of who they push is what's killing ratings. I speak from my own experience as a viewer and seeing everyone I hate winning titles while everyone I like gets buried and I imagine there are plenty of other fans who feel the same way.


I think you're _almost_ touching on the real problem, which is that _they_ (read: Vince) are deciding who to push based on who they _think_ fans will get behind, instead of letting the fans decide for themselves who they want to get behind and pushing _those_ stars. Because Vince knows what fans want more than the fans do. 

Now, the other side of that coin is, who the hell is on the current roster that fans give enough of a shit about to get behind. Nobody that I can tell. I can't think of a time since Daniel Bryan that they pushed who the fans wanted, and even that came after such a fight that I think Vince resented it and vowed to never cave into the fans' wishes again. Instead, he buries anybody and everybody who dares to start getting over.


----------



## raymond1985

The booking sucks.

The presentation sucks.

The talent sucks (Rollins, Kingston, etc)

The product sucks.

WWE is not redeemable at the minute. They need new management, a fresh batch of marketable talent, and decent writers with new ideas. It's going to take one hell of a revamp to turn things around. But I don't see them doing it. Unless they somehow stumble across the next Cena, the numbers will become even worse by the time football season rolls around.


----------



## SPCDRI

All time non-holiday low, only .03 ratings point higher than last year's Smackdown CHRISTMAS EPISODE

1.86 million viewers is the sixth time in the last eight weeks Smackdown dipped below 2 million viewers.

19 percent YoY drop in total viewership.

Male 18-34 demo of 0.34 is the lowest male 18-34 demo EVER for a RAW or Smackdown. One year ago, the same 18-34 demo was 0.96!

Lost in total viewership to REAL HOUSEWIVES OF BEVERLY HILLS. 

WHAT IN THE WORLD IS HAPPENING?!?!



ClintDagger said:


> Why not at least try to build up someone who is more charisma / promo centric than workrate and give them a run? Even if it’s just on one of the shows? This Kofi stuff especially is straight up business suicide.


Look at Smackdown's 18-34 male demo. Its gotta be New Day killing that. Right? I like them but I feel like an asshole with some of the stuff they say and do pre-match. FFS, last year they were a 1 share with 18-34 men now they're a .3 share, not even doing a THIRD with males 18-34 that they were doing last year, MY GOD.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Clearly they need more Shane segments. :heyman6
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're _almost_ touching on the real problem, which is that _they_ (read: Vince) are deciding who to push based on who they _think_ fans will get behind, instead of letting the fans decide for themselves who they want to get behind and pushing _those_ stars. Because Vince knows what fans want more than the fans do.
> 
> Now, the other side of that coin is, who the hell is on the current roster that fans give enough of a shit about to get behind. Nobody that I can tell. I can't think of a time since Daniel Bryan that they pushed who the fans wanted, and even that came after such a fight that I think Vince resented it and vowed to never cave into the fans' wishes again. Instead, he buries anybody and everybody who dares to start getting over.


Turning their top babyface Bryan heel, putting Asuka clean over a white hot Becky, and the refusal to turn Reigns heel when he returned are 3 really dumb decisions they've made. They also refuse to push anyone with mic skills. 

When you've got a guy like EC3 who has charisma out the ass being used as a puppet for a New Day comedy segment that pretty much sums up everything wrong with this ass backwards excuse of an entertainment company. Somewhere along the way Vince lost the plot and turned his company into everything he hates which is a glorified indie promotion.


----------



## ClintDagger

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> :clap :clap :clap
> 
> Instead of wanting to give different wrestlers a chance these people just want to see Rollins, Styles, Kingston and guys of that ilk play hot potato with the belts.
> 
> The complete dismissal of guys like Corbin without even being willing to give them a chance is telling. Seth has been given the ball, fumbled it and face planted. He's clearly not a guy who can improve business, but because he's idolized by most of WF everyone is afraid to say it. Groupthink mentality at its finest.


They need to stop with the 50/50 stuff and start trying to make everyone that can cut a decent promo into a star. Maybe you’ll catch lightning in a bottle with one of them. Create a cruiser weight or light heavyweight division and put the smaller workrate guys like Seth, Balor, Kofi, and Bryan there and treat it seriously. Let it main event PPVs. They are miscasting people all over the place. Focus on people’s strengths.


----------



## SPCDRI

A show on Friday on FOX got cancelled for low total viewership and poor demo performance, The Cool Kids. It had a huge debut of over 10 million people following their lead in from Last Man Standing but it declined to a point where it was "only" getting about 3.3 million people watching it. 1 season, done. 

Is it true that FOX is committed to throwing away 2 hours every Friday if the ratings don't see a major turnaround? I hear conflicting things on if FOX can shanghai them to FSI.


----------



## ClintDagger

SPCDRI said:


> Look at Smackdown's 18-34 male demo. Its gotta be New Day killing that. Right? I like them but I feel like an asshole with some of the stuff they say and do pre-match. FFS, last year they were a 1 share with 18-34 men now they're a .3 share, not even doing a THIRD with males 18-34 that they were doing last year, MY GOD.


I’m in that age range and I don’t know anyone personally that would do anything but turn the channel when an act like New Day came on. It’s embarrassing as a wrestling fan. I have to think that at least some of these wrestlers are cool IRL. Let them show their personalities and push the video game nerds down the card where they belong.


----------



## RainmakerV2

ClintDagger said:


> I’m in that age range and I don’t know anyone personally that would do anything but turn the channel when an act like New Day came on. It’s embarrassing as a wrestling fan. I have to think that at least some of these wrestlers are cool IRL. Let them show their personalities and push the video game nerds down the card where they belong.


New Day has been killing that demo for years. What grown man would think this shits cool? Do you really wanna sit with your girlfriend and have this on the TV? What is she gonna think of you?


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

This wildcard trash is really bringing in them ratings :lol doesn’t help that you have two geek world champions and this annoying Shane trash either. Also no grown man wants to watch three fruitcakes toss pancakes


----------



## Chrome

1 of the big 3 champions (Kofi, Seth, and Becky) or even more are definitely losing their titles this Sunday imo.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Chrome said:


> 1 of the big 3 champions (Kofi, Seth, and Becky) or even more are definitely losing their titles this Sunday imo.


If they don't then you would have to question the logic behind an all rematch PPV. Based on how Raw and SD went I think Lacey wins, Seth and Kofi retain. They're never gonna put the belt on Corbs. He's just their filler guy for when Bork's not obligated to appear.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

God, you people are fucking morons. Bickering like it's The View in here.



SayWhatAgain! said:


> I'm not gonna blame "Mr Ratings" for this one seeing as he wasn't advertised for the show
> 
> :rollins
> 
> Bad product is bad product. In all truth it really doesn't matter who they feature, they 50/50 everyone to the point where they have a roster of geeks.


/thread


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Chrome said:


> 1 of the big 3 champions (Kofi, Seth, and Becky) or even more are definitely losing their titles this Sunday imo.


They have to. Not blaming them solely for the rating drop (that's just dumb) but the experiment isn't working at all. They were good "Mania Moment" champions but the ratings are dying. Kofi, despite being good in the ring and charismatic, has been relegated and pushed as a midcard filler act for so long that pushing him this hard as World champion is something the majority simply isn't buying. Granted the writing sucks and this company handcuffs everyone these days but Kofi isn't the answer. Neither are Seth and Becky for the same reasons.

That said, neither are Corbin and Lacey either. They aren't moving the needle either, especially when they aren't of equal or better quality than the three currently.


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

> Also no grown man wants to watch three fruitcakes toss pancakes


That's for sure


----------



## SPCDRI

WINNING said:


> They have to. Not blaming them solely for the rating drop (that's just dumb) but the experiment isn't working at all. They were good "Mania Moment" champions but the ratings are dying. Kofi, despite being good in the ring and charismatic, has been relegated and pushed as a midcard filler act for so long that pushing him this hard as World champion is something the majority simply isn't buying. Granted the writing sucks and this company handcuffs everyone these days but Kofi isn't the answer. Neither are Seth and Becky for the same reasons.
> 
> That said, neither are Corbin and Lacey either. They aren't moving the needle either, especially when they aren't of equal or better quality than the three currently.


Seth, Kofi, Becky and Bayley are all in the hot seat for sure. There's no way The Big 4 title holders all survive Stomping Grounds.


----------



## chronoxiong

No sign of the Big Dog on the show since Vince prefers to have him on RAW. And the wildcard rule still doesn't help do a thing to the ratings. Can't believe Fox paid big money for this shit. I'm going to keep saying that shit until the WWE ever is entertaining to watch again.


----------



## Ace

Corbin should win the title, it would be good for Seth as he wont have to put up with the crap. The title is a curse.

Ziggler is a geek who shouldn't touch the title and Lacey is nothing, if Alexa was in the hunt she should have taken the title off Becky. She's over, conventionally attractive and good on the mic.

I agree with the idea at least one of the champions needs to lose, the babyfaces dominating on top is not engaging in the slightest. They may as well turn Roman heel and have him take the title off Kofi/Seth at Summerslam.



SPCDRI said:


> Seth, Kofi, Becky and Bayley are all in the hot seat for sure. There's no way The Big 4 title holders all survive Stomping Grounds.


 There's no threat to them, it doesn't help that the top champions are all babyfaces which makes for meh TV.


----------



## RainmakerV2

I honestly dont see any of the titles changing at Stomping Grounds. Corbin will be champ the day Im a billionaire unfortunately, Ziggler definitely isnt winning, and I don't see them making Becky beltless yet. Unfortunately I think they're going with this Seth/Becky championship couple thing for a while. I hope Im wrong.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Turning their top babyface Bryan heel, putting Asuka clean over a white hot Becky, and the refusal to turn Reigns heel when he returned are 3 really dumb decisions they've made. They also refuse to push anyone with mic skills.
> 
> When you've got a guy like EC3 who has charisma out the ass being used as a puppet for a New Day comedy segment that pretty much sums up everything wrong with this ass backwards excuse of an entertainment company. Somewhere along the way Vince lost the plot and turned his company into everything he hates which is a glorified indie promotion.


Butchering Bryan's return from retirement was the epitome of WWE stupidity. What should have been the feel good story of the fucking decade ended with him tagging with Shane McMahon at Mania, doing nothing for months, then turning heel. fpalm

What they should have done is have heel Miz take the belt off AJ, give him a lengthy run, have Bryan win the Rumble and beat Miz at Mania this year for the title.

The Becky stuff was fucking retarded too. She TAPS OUT in the opener, then steals an injured woman's spot in the Rumble right at the end and wins. What a great heel... oh wait, she's the top babyface? fpalm


----------



## Ace

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Turning their top babyface Bryan heel, putting Asuka clean over a white hot Becky, and the refusal to turn Reigns heel when he returned are 3 really dumb decisions they've made. They also refuse to push anyone with mic skills.
> 
> When you've got a guy like EC3 who has charisma out the ass being used as a puppet for a New Day comedy segment that pretty much sums up everything wrong with this ass backwards excuse of an entertainment company. Somewhere along the way Vince lost the plot and turned his company into everything he hates which is a glorified indie promotion.


 Turning Bryan was the correct decision, he was dead and asked for the turn himself.

A lot like the hippy gimmick, but it's low card comedy heel work. Not surprising it's a complete afterthought when not featured. It's booked in low card segments with the tag titles and no one cares.

Becky is rubbish, Asuka going over clean is fine with me because Asuka is flat out better in all counts. Not like marks gave a shit either they all eat up Becky winning the Rumble because they're morons and are happy with shit booking as long as their favorites are the beneficiaries.


----------



## Hobogoblin

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Turning their top babyface Bryan heel, putting Asuka clean over a white hot Becky, and the refusal to turn Reigns heel when he returned are 3 really dumb decisions they've made.


Putting Asuka over Becky was the right decision because Asuka is much more talented, and why would they turn Roman heel when he's finally gotten over as a face?


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Asuka is never gonna be a thing in a North American company. Get over it. I hate Becky and that was still a retarded decision to have her lose to someone who can't even speak English.


----------



## Prosper

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Turning their top babyface Bryan heel, putting Asuka clean over a white hot Becky, and the refusal to turn Reigns heel when he returned are 3 really dumb decisions they've made. They also refuse to push anyone with mic skills.
> 
> When you've got a guy like EC3 who has charisma out the ass being used as a puppet for a New Day comedy segment that pretty much sums up everything wrong with this ass backwards excuse of an entertainment company. Somewhere along the way Vince lost the plot and turned his company into everything he hates which is a glorified indie promotion.


Agreed. I hope the ratings fall under a million.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

I agree with u bro. It’s very hard for a non English speaker to get over in entertainment with an American audience.

So because u don’t agree with people they are now morons. Who are u to tell people what to like and what not to like? In fact it makes you very shallow and close minded. It also makes u lack intelligence if u can’t respect the fact that everyone has an opinion.


----------



## llj

Asuka was quite over until they just stopped trying to do anything at all with her. To argue otherwise is revisionist history. 

Besides, it's not like not using her has made the product any better anyway. 


I can sit here and write a whole year's worth of angles for her and Nakamura and Andrade even taking into consideration their language barrier. We've always asked "Why can't the WWE do this and this instead" when it comes to many of their performers. They can, with a different mindset. They just don't want to. There's never enough fans asking "Why?" when it comes to the WWE's formulas. Why do they have to fit everyone into a specific box? Why does the product have to be so mic heavy? Why is it that you have to be able to stand in the ring and talk for 20 minutes in order to be a champion? Why can't they have more action-oriented segments? Why don't they film some segments outside the ring from time to time? Why don't they use managers anymore? (Yes I know Paige is being used but in WWE fashion it is a poor use)

There really is no reason why they can't change the formula up. There's no reason why they can't book to their performer's strengths instead of needing all of them to fit into a single box. And it's not like the current formula has been working lately either. They've brainwashed their dwindling audiences into buying into a certain standard, all while seeing large drops in their audiences over the past few years and particularly several months. 

WWE's crowds were clearly ready for Asuka twice in the past year. Once at Wrestlemania 34 and the second time at TLC. They dropped the ball afterwards on her both times and then people just gave up hoping. Do I think they lost a few thousand or so viewers because they haven't booked people like Finn and Sasha and Asuka and Nakamura well? Yeah, I think so. Individually they may not amount to a lot of people but cumulatively they've lost a lot of fans over the past year because SO MANY people are booked less than respectably. These lost fanbases add up and I think you're starting to see the results of them pissing away so many fanbases cumulatively.

Here's the thing about foreigners though. If you're clearly not willing to work around their accents/language issues, don't hire them at all. It's that simple. Don't try to pretend to be an international flavoured company when you have no actual plan to incorporate them.


----------



## SPCDRI

The FOX execs who told the other FOX hotshots that successfully argued for the Smackdown that WWE was blowing smoke up their assholes with cherry picked "ratings increases" in 2016, 2017 and 2018 but that the long term trend for the company was in the toilet, well, they've got to be gloating right now. They're gloating and gearing up to rub it in their rival's faces this fall. Any ratings stumble will be seen in the context of that power struggle and oneupsmanship. It definitely looks like the doubters are right. FOX is not monolithic. I believe many people, possibly even the majority of decision makers at FOX, looked at viewership, live attendance, merchandise sales and house shows over the past 4 or 5 years before agreeing to the deal and said that pro wrestling was passe and would continue to dwindle in popularity yet they were outvoted or big-timed.

These numbers could be up 65 percent where they are now, and plenty of people at FOX would still be feeling angry at getting ripped off.

Edit: Tim Allen in his sixties doing this really cutting edge show, "Home Improvement, but the boys are replaced with girls" is getting better than double and occasionally close to triple what Smackdown is getting now. That's the viewership context.


----------



## Randy Lahey

SPCDRI said:


> All time non-holiday low, only .03 ratings point higher than last year's Smackdown CHRISTMAS EPISODE
> 
> 1.86 million viewers is the sixth time in the last eight weeks Smackdown dipped below 2 million viewers.
> 
> 19 percent YoY drop in total viewership.
> 
> Male 18-34 demo of 0.34 is the lowest male 18-34 demo EVER for a RAW or Smackdown. One year ago, the same 18-34 demo was 0.96!
> 
> Lost in total viewership to REAL HOUSEWIVES OF BEVERLY HILLS.
> 
> WHAT IN THE WORLD IS HAPPENING?!?!
> 
> 
> 
> Look at Smackdown's 18-34 male demo. Its gotta be New Day killing that. Right? I like them but I feel like an asshole with some of the stuff they say and do pre-match. FFS, last year they were a 1 share with 18-34 men now they're a .3 share, not even doing a THIRD with males 18-34 that they were doing last year, MY GOD.



18-34 males don't want to watch women's wrestling (most of the women on the roster), geeks (Kofi and Seth), and children's programming (anything New Day does).

The most ironic thing to me, is that if HHH/Steph weren't relativives of Vince, they'd be fired by any CEO who followed their ideas and it lead to losing nearly all their audience. HHH loves the work rate geeks, and Steph loves the women. Sure Vince signs off on it, but it's the 2 below him that are pushing it. 

AEW is gonna get the 18-34 males and I doubt any of them go back to watching WWE. WWE will be the wrestling show for kids and SJW types. AEW will be targeted towards the current MMA crowd.


----------



## vanboxmeer

Imagine putting the top title and building a key part of the show around Kofi Kingston simply because the empty vessels on social media wanted to pat themselves on the back over correctly building around Daniel Fucking Bryan.

Fucking geeks.


----------



## rexmundi

I hope this show craters this week.


----------



## SPCDRI

rexmundi said:


> I hope this show craters this week.


I don't know man, all these multi-mans and mult-falls...

The 2/3 falls match, had WWE decided it wasn't going to run these into the ground, and had it at Stomping Grounds and gave it like, 5 more minutes? Would have been the best Kofi/Ziggler match out of a crop of 30, hands down. 

We'll see if that's enough to bail them out, the first hour was the pits.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Prediction: Below 2M viewers


----------



## bradatar

Hobogoblin said:


> Putting Asuka over Becky was the right decision because Asuka is much more talented, and why would they turn Roman heel when he's finally gotten over as a face?


I almost don't want to reply because under your username it says Moron, but turning Roman heel is literally the most logical thing this company should do that could lead to a boost in ratings.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 6/25/19 Vs 6/18/19 ):
1.921M Vs 1.859M ( + 0.062M / + 3.34% )
0.620D Vs 0.560D

SDL Vs RAW:
1.921M Vs 2.276M ( - 0.355M / 84.40% )
0.620D Vs 0.730D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 8th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 6/25/19 Vs 6/26/18 ):
1.921M Vs 2.135M ( - 0.214M / - 10.02% )
0.620D Vs 0.640D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.135M Vs 2.663M ( - 0.528M / 80.17% )
0.640D Vs 0.863D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

That fucking number is worst than their previous ones this year. :mj4


----------



## rexmundi

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> That fucking number is worst than their previous ones this year. :mj4


No it's not. It sucks but it is higher than last weeks.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

rexmundi said:


> No it's not. It sucks but it is higher than last weeks.


Still not good. :draper2


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

The rating went up without Becky's boyfriend on the show. No surprise there at all.


----------



## A-C-P

Hows turning Smackdown into Raw Lite working out for you there Vinny? :bosque


----------



## Fearless Viper

No.1 on demo and top 10 in terms of viewership. Ses good to me.


----------



## ClintDagger

Fearless Viper said:


> No.1 on demo and top 10 in terms of viewership. Ses good to me.


If you were CEO of Fox Entertainment, WWE could probably breathe easy. But my guess is he doesn’t see it that way.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Another SD going below 2 million viewers. On top of a record low drawing crowd. :lol

Holy fuck, September will not be forgiving.


----------



## Chrome

Went up from last week, but still down 10% from last year. Lawls!


----------



## sara sad

If they want to go back to 2 million they need to get Charlotte back on TV.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

sara sad said:


> If they want to go back to 2 million they need to get Charlotte back on TV.


Have Charlotte beat Bayley for the belt and call up Shayna to feud with with her.

Have Joe squash Kofi for the belt. Have Roman squash Shane and get that idiot off TV setting up a Joe/Reigns title feud.


That would get them above 2m.


----------



## SPCDRI

7 weeks out of the last 9 below 2 million. Oof.


----------



## ClintDagger

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Have Charlotte beat Bayley for the belt and call up Shayna to feud with with her.
> 
> Have Joe squash Kofi for the belt. Have Roman squash Shane and get that idiot off TV setting up a Joe/Reigns title feud.
> 
> 
> That would get them above 2m.


That’s their best ready made option. I’d have Joe squash Kofi so bad we never see Kofi again. Make Joe an absolute monster.


----------



## Chrome

Damn the attendance for SDL was 2500 apparently. That's pretty bad to do that number in a city like Portland.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Actually, I heard it was from 1500 to 2000. :mj


----------



## llj

This company is worse now than in 95 and 96 in my opinion.

For all of the problems the WWF had in those years, they still had reasonably solid booked talents to build around. They may have lacked in WCW's star power but at least they had a direction. Bret Hart, HBK and Undertaker is a very solid main event scene. Moreover, the company consistently booked them strong so they at least felt like top guys. The match quality in those years was also quite high, especially with Owen, Bulldog, and Mankind bringing up the upper midcard.

I had heard about attendance issues in 95 and 96 but it never felt like the PPVs were sparsely attended when I was watching them. In fact I wasn't even aware the WWF was struggling at the time, watching the product. And we know they didn't go tarp crazy yet.

Watching the shows now, you can actually tell they are struggling and flailing, which is a feeling you never got back in 95 and 96. They are making panic move bookings and featuring people the audience knows very well aren't as skilled as some of the people in catering or people in the midcard scene. This was never the case in 95 and 96. In those years, with the exception of maybe Diesel, everyone was booked to their actual talent both in the ring and on the mic.

There's no direction to the product right now. The match quality isn't that good despite people saying it's the "most talented roster they've ever had" and the sports entertainment factor of the product is abysmal. Seth and AJ are purportedly the best workers on the main roster but neither of has matched the consistency of 95-96 Bret or HBK. 

The women's division is completely without any direction now. It's not sexy like in the AE era and now they aren't emphasizing match quality either unlike their brief flirtations with it in 2016 and 2018. So they aren't appealing to ANYONE. Becky as a character may be a favorite of the existing WWE audience, but say someone who is not familiar with her, what does she offer to them? She's not presented in a sexy manner, nor is she someone particularly known for her in-ring prowess. So it's difficult to see what they are trying to hit here. They are pushing Lacey, who is good looking, but to say she ups the sex quotient enough to compete with other, better cable shows out there that actually provide SEX SCENES AND NUDITY would be an exaggeration. And plus, she is so awkward in the ring in matches not catered to sexuality (unlike Trish's era) that the whole sex appeal factor goes out the window once she starts flailing her arms wildly at Becky or whomever on RAW in these straight matches.

I don't mean to pick on them. Everyone on the roster is flawed. But my point is they aren't emphasizing any direction in particular that satisfies anyone. If it were an entertaining product with poor wrestling, that would be one thing. Or if it were a boring product with excellent match quality it would be another. But literally no audience out there is being served here.


----------



## Serpico Jones

Chrome said:


> Damn the attendance for SDL was 2500 apparently. That's pretty bad to do that number in a city like Portland.


That’s embarrassing.


----------



## SPCDRI

Its not just the population of Portland, Oergon as a city but people from Oregon and Washington within the Portland region, communities that work with and commute to and from Portland and all that. A region like that is called a metropolitan area. When WWE runs a show, its not just to get people from that very city, but from its county and counties and overall larger metropolitan area. 

Portland's Metropolitan Area is 2,5 million and they might have ran less than 2000! That's completely ridiculous.


----------



## ClintDagger

SPCDRI said:


> Its not just the population of Portland, Oergon as a city but people from Oregon and Washington within the Portland region, communities that work with and commute to and from Portland and all that. A region like that is called a metropolitan area. When WWE runs a show, its not just to get people from that very city, but from its county and counties and overall larger metropolitan area.
> 
> Portland's Metropolitan Area is 2,5 million and they might have ran less than 2000! That's completely ridiculous.


What will happen next is they’ll start to hit their best markets more frequently and burn those areas out. I wouldn’t be shocked to see them cease house shows all together if this keeps up.


----------



## Fearless Viper

2M at best...


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 7/2/19 Vs 6/25/19 ):
1.890M Vs 1.921M ( - 0.031M / - 1.61% )
0.560D Vs 0.620D

SDL Vs RAW:
1.890M Vs 2.496M ( - 0.506M / 75.72% )
0.560D Vs 0.787D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 7/2/19 Vs 7/3/18 ):
1.890M Vs 2.013M ( - 0.123M / - 6.11% )
0.560D Vs 0.540D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.013M Vs 2.707M ( - 0.694M / 74.36% )
0.540D Vs 0.883D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*


----------



## RainmakerV2

Ouch.



Yeah. Ouch. Thats bad considering RAWs number.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Damn, the Smackdown ratings continue to plummet while Raw has been gaining. Hmm..something must not be clicking on the blue brand.


----------



## rbl85

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> Damn, the Smackdown ratings continue to plummet while Raw has been gaining. Hmm..something must not be clicking on the blue brand.


What opened the show for SDL ?

And for RAW ?


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

rbl85 said:


> What opened the show for SDL ?
> 
> And for RAW ?


The typical opening for the show on Smackdown was the Kevin Owens talk show with Shane McMahon, Drew, and Ziggler. 

For Raw it was the Braun vs Bobby Lashley match.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

That's horrendous, goes without saying, just as everyone had predicted, the wildcard rule is going to kill Smackdown.


----------



## rbl85

FOX must be delighted XD


----------



## chronoxiong

Wildcard rule continues to hurt Smackdown the most. I knew it. Roman Reigns isn't even on the show and I think that's 3 or 4 straight weeks he isn't on it. Plus, we continue to see the same storylines seen on RAW continue on Smackdown. Any chance we will get to see Finn Balor again? Or for Randy Orton to feud with someone new? Hell, I wished we had got to see the Kabuki Warriors on TV this week to start a storyline with the IIconics but no, lets continue the Nikki Cross/Alexa/Bayley storyline.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *Viewership & Demo ( 7/2/19 Vs 6/25/19 ):
> 1.890M Vs 1.921M ( - 0.031M / - 1.61% )
> 0.560D Vs 0.620D
> 
> SDL Vs RAW:
> 1.890M Vs 2.496M ( - 0.506M / 75.72% )
> 0.560D Vs 0.787D*
> 
> *Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Viewership & Demo ( 7/2/19 Vs 7/3/18 ):
> 1.890M Vs 2.013M ( - 0.123M / - 6.11% )
> 0.560D Vs 0.540D
> 
> SDL Vs RAW:
> 2.013M Vs 2.707M ( - 0.694M / 74.36% )
> 0.540D Vs 0.883D
> 
> Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*


*-8th sub 2M viewership in 10 weeks.
-Average viewership for 10 SDLs from 4/30 to 7/2 is 1.926M.

-2nd 4 week streak of sub 2M SDLs in 10 weeks.
-Both 4 week streaks (4/30 - 5/21 and 6/11 - 7/2) separated by 2 SDLs that barely breached 2M (2.072M and 2.016M).*


----------



## Fearless Viper

chronoxiong said:


> Wildcard rule continues to hurt Smackdown the most. I knew it. Roman Reigns isn't even on the show and I think that's 3 or 4 straight weeks he isn't on it. Plus, we continue to see the same storylines seen on RAW continue on Smackdown. Any chance we will get to see Finn Balor again? Or for Randy Orton to feud with someone new? Hell, I wished we had got to see the Kabuki Warriors on TV this week to start a storyline with the IIconics but no, lets continue the Nikki Cross/Alexa/Bayley storyline.


This


----------



## rexmundi

It has become abundantly clear that wwe has tanked smackdown by making it part raw recap and the overexposure of the wildcard rule. Worse for them is they hold Roman off it, probably because they didn't want him on the lower rated show. This show needed the Taker appearance far more than raw. Oh well...LOL ratings.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Needs More Hogan
-Eric Bischoff


----------



## Ace

lmao how did ratings go down when Raw got a big bump? :lmao



Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> Damn, the Smackdown ratings continue to plummet while Raw has been gaining. Hmm..something must not be clicking on the blue brand.


 Wildcard killed SD, it feels like Raw lite now. And you get to see SD's biggest stars on Raw anyway.

I don't bother with SD anymore because the second tier stars are on it and it feels irrelevant. Haven't watched it at all (essentially) since the shake up.


----------



## Dolorian

The wildcard is a disaster.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

That's terrible, especially considering what RAW was the night before. FOX has to be seething that the SD numbers are still this bad heading into the FOX debut in October.

I even think the RAW, despite increasing this week, was just a spike from the Taker return. Once that wears off like it did last year, they'll be back to their record low rating again.

Imagine that, people don't want to watch a RAW show two days in a row. Smackdown no longer has an identity. The Wildcard rule has officially killed it.


----------



## SPCDRI

in the past 10 weeks, two 4 week in a row sub-2 million skids. People don't want to watch the 4th and 5th hour of RAW with the back benchers on it, sorry. They've made Smackdown pointless.

Like "Biggest Acquisition Ever" Roman Reigns who went a whole month without working a match on Smackdown. Anybody who was really into Roman Reigns might have been induced into watching Smackdown to see him and get turned on to the other wrestlers, but nope, WILDCARD BITCHES. Now he's not even on Smackdown AT ALL. Or how the top 2 titles on Smackdown have RAW people going after on them with the story happening on RAW, too. Why watch Smackdown? Why indeed!

:cry


----------



## Chris90




----------



## ClintDagger

What they are doing on SD is absolutely mind boggling. Not ever having Roman show up and putting / leaving the title on Kofi is the equivalent of benching your all pro starting QB for no reason and playing the 4th stringer just because. It’s basically an admission that you aren’t trying to be a winner and in fact it looks like you are tanking on purpose. Somebody explain that to me.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

I like Kofi, but he's definitely someone who should've had a quick babyface reign (a la Kerry Von Erich) with a meaningful and memorable WrestleMania title win being the highlight. I don't usually like it as a general rule, but Bryan should probably win it back from him.


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

No straight guy wants to watch Big E slap dudes butts and see a pig tailed pan cake flipping goof ball as the WWE champion


----------



## SPCDRI

Its incredible to me how New Day is a focal point on RAW and Smackdown and Smackdown just had 8 of its last 10 shows below 2 million viewers and a 10 week rolling average below 2 million, and they're catching like, 1/1000th the shit sandwich people are making Rollins eat for the RAW numbers. Smackdown in the past 2 months has had its lowest watched Tuesday Smackdown since moving to Tuesday, its lowest non-holiday viewership ever and the Pancakes Posse just is skating away. They just had a show where they were getting like a .3 with viewers 18-34. Doesn't that bother anybody? "AEW is trying to compete with WWE on 18-34 year old viewers and lapsed fans so WWE is trying to counter-program it with edgier programming." Edgier programming like New Day flipping birds with their pancakes? C'mon, these people are 18-34 year old male ratings megadeath. They can't keep getting away with it!


----------



## llj

The WWE is really not concerned about Smackdown at all it seems. They certainly aren't trying to help it. Either the rumors of Fox's displeasure is overblown or they figure they can worry about it in October and just let it starve for now because RAW is still the A show (more likely this is the actual answer)

As with everything that has led up to this decade long slide, the WWE almost never thinks long term anymore. They always slice off a hand and worry about the bleeding 10 months from now. At that point the damage because of their shortsightedness has become so bad they have to amputate the entire arm.


----------



## ClintDagger

SPCDRI said:


> Its incredible to me how New Day is a focal point on RAW and Smackdown and Smackdown just had 8 of its last 10 shows below 2 million viewers and a 10 week rolling average below 2 million, and they're catching like, 1/1000th the shit sandwich people are making Rollins eat for the RAW numbers. Smackdown in the past 2 months has had its lowest watched Tuesday Smackdown since moving to Tuesday, its lowest non-holiday viewership ever and the Pancakes Posse just is skating away. They just had a show where they we getting like a .3 with viewers 18-34. Doesn't that bother anybody? "AEW is trying to compete with WWE on 18-34 year old viewers and lapsed fans so WWE is trying to counter-program it with edgier programming." Edgier programming like New Day flipping birds with their pancakes? C'mon, these people are 18-34 year old male ratings megadeath. They can't keep getting away with it!


New Day is unquestionably a bigger issue than Rollins. WWE is in a tough spot with New Day because they can fill tv time, they sell merch, and the live crowds especially those in hardcore markets respond pretty well to them compared to many other acts. But they are so cringe and hokey that they are driving away some current viewers and preventing any new casual viewers from coming on board. 

It’s very similar to Becky & the women’s division in general. It’s good time filler, checks the PC box, sells merch, and has a great following with the hardcore. But that won’t do much for the growth of popularity.


----------



## Dr. Jones

ClintDagger said:


> New Day is unquestionably a bigger issue than Rollins. WWE is in a tough spot with New Day because they can fill tv time, they sell merch, and the live crowds especially those in hardcore markets respond pretty well to them compared to many other acts. *But they are so cringe and hokey that they are driving away some current viewers and preventing any new casual viewers from coming on board*.
> 
> It’s very similar to Becky & the women’s division in general. It’s good time filler, checks the PC box, sells merch, and has a great following with the hardcore. But that won’t do much for the growth of popularity.


And they wonder why they have no teenagers in the audience. Most teenagers would want to throw a soup can at the back of these guy's heads.

They have to get out of the 80s mindset of trying to only cater to 5 year olds. Those fans aren't sticking around anymore and they're audience they do have continues to dwindle


----------



## llj

The sad thing is I can't see any kid liking this stuff either. It's stuck in this weird realm of being too immature for anyone over 12, but too convoluted, confusing, and unexciting for anyone under 10.


----------



## rexmundi

Why are they trying to flatline smackdown's ratings when the move to fox really isn't that far away? If you drive the viewers away, it's doubtful that many will return for the fox show.


----------



## Not Lying

sometimes I remember SurvivorSeries and the humiliation SD suffered there... for no reason at all? at all??


----------



## ClintDagger

rexmundi said:


> Why are they trying to flatline smackdown's ratings when the move to fox really isn't that far away? If you drive the viewers away, it's doubtful that many will return for the fox show.


It doesn’t make sense to me. My best guess is that they have a bunch of stuff planned for SD when they go to Fox like Brock, Ronda, Cena, Hogan, Austin, Rock etcetera that they think will spike the ratings so they are concentrating more on Raw right now.



Dr. Jones said:


> And they wonder why they have no teenagers in the audience. Most teenagers would want to throw a soup can at the back of these guy's heads.
> 
> They have to get out of the 80s mindset of trying to only cater to 5 year olds. Those fans aren't sticking around anymore and they're audience they do have continues to dwindle


I agree. And what’s ironic is what they are doing isn’t really appealing to 5 y/o’s. It’s appealing to these odd ball men in their 40s that eat up the lame New Day stuff and the strangeness of a 30+ year old woman pretending to be Liam Neeson and calling herself “The Man”. Now throw in the cringy stuff with Rollins and I don’t see how the hell you expect to create new fans.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

WWE SmackDown Viewership Down Going Into Extreme Rules


> This week's WWE SmackDown episode, featuring the final hype for WWE Extreme Rules with Roman Reigns vs. Dolph Ziggler in the main event, drew 1.853 million viewers, according to Showbuzz Daily.
> 
> This is down from last week's 1.890 million viewers, and the third-lowest SmackDown audience for a non-holiday first-run episode in history.
> 
> SmackDown was #8 for the night in viewership on cable, for the second week in a row, behind Hannity, Tucker Carlson Tonight, Rachel Maddow Show, The Five, The Ingraham Angle, Last Word and Special Report. SmackDown was #2 in the Cable Top 150 18-49 demographic this week, behind Real Housewives, which drew 1.820 million viewers.
> 
> The big draw on network TV at 8pm was America's Got Talent on NBC, which drew 9.805 million viewers.
> 
> To compare, Monday's go-home WWE RAW drew an average of 2.352 million viewers, down from last week's 2.496 million viewers.
> 
> Below is our 2019 SmackDown Viewership Tracker:
> 
> January 1 Episode: 2.091 million viewers (New Year's episode, taped)
> January 8 Episode: 2.032 million viewers
> January 15 Episode: 2.143 million viewers
> January 22 Episode: 2.142 million viewers
> January 29 Episode: 2.137 million viewers (post-Royal Rumble episode)
> February 5 Episode: 1.841 million viewers (State of the Union competition)
> February 12 Episode: 2.034 million viewers
> February 19 Episode: 2.269 million viewers (post-Elimination Chamber episode)
> February 26 Episode: 2.150 million viewers
> March 5 Episode: 2.155 million viewers
> March 12 Episode: 2.198 million viewers (post-Fastlane episode)
> March 19 Episode: 2.208 million viewers
> March 26 Episode: 2.393 million viewers
> April 2 Episode: 2.141 million viewers
> April 9 Episode: 2.199 million viewers (post-WrestleMania 35 episode)
> April 16 Episode: 2.219 million viewers (Superstar Shakeup episode)
> April 23 Episode: 2.072 million viewers
> April 30 Episode: 1.833 million viewers
> May 7 Episode: 1.931 million viewers
> May 14 Episode: 1.827 million viewers (taped episode from London)
> May 21 Episode: 1.983 million viewers (post-Money In the Bank episode)
> May 28 Episode: 2.072 million viewers
> June 4 Episode: 2.016 million viewers
> June 11 Episode: 1.930 million viewers (post-Super ShowDown episode)
> June 18 Episode: 1.859 million viewers
> June 25 Episode: 1.921 million viewers (post-Stomping Grounds episode)
> July 2 Episode: 1.890 million viewers
> July 9 Episode: 1.853 million viewers
> July 16 Episode:
> 
> 2018 Total: 122.304 million viewers
> 2018 Average: 2.352 million viewers per episode
> 
> 2017 Total: 132.401 million viewers
> 2017 Average: 2.546 million viewers per episode


Source: https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2...wership-down-going-into-extreme-rules-656205/


----------



## sara sad

The fact that the ratings are going down harder since they stopped featuring Charlotte is ever so pleasing to me.


----------



## rexmundi

ClintDagger said:


> It doesn’t make sense to me. My best guess is that they have a bunch of stuff planned for SD when they go to Fox like Brock, Ronda, Cena, Hogan, Austin, Rock etcetera that they think will spike the ratings so they are concentrating more on Raw right now.


I really hope they aren't tanking the ratings so they can tout the great percentage increase when they load up the show for Fox. I wouldn't put it past them but it has made smackdown must miss for me. B the way, more of the same mediocre ratings for sdl this week. What a shock.


----------



## SPCDRI

1.85 going into a PPV. That's 5 weeks in a row of sub-2 million viewership.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

That's pretty stupid if they think they can allow SD to tank right now heading into FOX, having this mindset that broadcast TV will boost the number when that isn't a guarantee and the product is complete shit at the moment.


----------



## tducey

Yeah, you want the product to be the best no matter the channel it's on. People might not come back when the show goes to FOX.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

sara sad said:


> The fact that the ratings are going down harder since they stopped featuring Charlotte is ever so pleasing to me.


And since they stopped using Lacey as a wild card. Ratings were always above 2m when she appeared on SD.

Tall blondes draw :vince$


----------



## RainmakerV2

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> And since they stopped using Lacey as a wild card. Ratings were always above 2m when she appeared on SD.
> 
> Tall blondes draw :vince$


Yeah. Having Bayley/Nikki Cross on the show 20 plus minutes every week in multiple segments is not fucking helping. Time for CharGOAT to come save this shit. I still cannot believe they had that Charlotte/Lacey team sitting right there and they fucked it up. You could have instantly made the womens tag titles relevant with them..(Nothing against the Iiconics btw, love them)..and kept Charlotte away from the singles title for a while. But no. This company ruins everything thats cool and can make them money.


----------



## Singapore Kane

tducey said:


> Yeah, *you want the product to be the best no matter the channel it's on*. People might not come back when the show goes to FOX.


It's like when the product tanks during October every year because "well nobody watches during football season anyway" 

Despite the other 179 countries WWE broadcasts in not having access to gridiron.


----------



## TheDraw

SPCDRI said:


> 1.85 going into a PPV. That's 5 weeks in a row of sub-2 million viewership.


Holy shit LMAO

That's getting close to TNA 2010 numbers


----------



## .christopher.

Who would've thought there would be a worse world champ than Jinder Mahal?

Well, Kofi Kingston only went and said "hold my beer". He's utter trash.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

WWE SmackDown Draws Best Viewership Since April


> This week's post-Extreme Rules edition of WWE SmackDown, featuring fallout from the pay-per-view with Dolph Ziggler vs. Kevin Owens in the main event, drew 2.122 million viewers, according to Showbuzz Daily.
> 
> This is up from last week's 1.853 million viewers, which was the third-lowest SmackDown audience for a non-holiday first-run episode in history. This is the best blue brand viewership since the April 16 Superstar Shakeup episode, which drew 2.219 million viewers. The last regular episodes to do better were the April 2 episode, which drew 2.141 million viewers, and the post-WrestleMania 35 show, which drew 2.199 million viewers. This is the first episode to draw over 2 million since the June 4 episode, which drew 2.016 million viewers.
> 
> This week's SmackDown featured several notable matches and segments advertised ahead of time, including Shane McMahon's Town Hall meeting and a career-altering announcement from Daniel Bryan, among others. There was also extra buzz going into this show as it was believed that new SmackDown Executive Director Eric Bischoff would be taking over this week, but that wasn't the case.
> 
> SmackDown was #7 for the night in viewership on cable, behind Hannity, Tucker Carlson Tonight, Rachel Maddow Show, The Five, The Ingraham Angle, and Special Report. SmackDown was #1 in the Cable Top 150 18-49 demographic this week.
> 
> The big draw on network TV at 8pm was America's Got Talent on NBC, which drew 9.534 million viewers.
> 
> To compare, Monday's post-Extreme Rules edition of WWE RAW drew an average of 2.453 million viewers, up from last week's 2.352 million viewers.
> 
> Below is our 2019 SmackDown Viewership Tracker:
> 
> January 1 Episode: 2.091 million viewers (New Year's episode, taped)
> January 8 Episode: 2.032 million viewers
> January 15 Episode: 2.143 million viewers
> January 22 Episode: 2.142 million viewers
> January 29 Episode: 2.137 million viewers (post-Royal Rumble episode)
> February 5 Episode: 1.841 million viewers (State of the Union competition)
> February 12 Episode: 2.034 million viewers
> February 19 Episode: 2.269 million viewers (post-Elimination Chamber episode)
> February 26 Episode: 2.150 million viewers
> March 5 Episode: 2.155 million viewers
> March 12 Episode: 2.198 million viewers (post-Fastlane episode)
> March 19 Episode: 2.208 million viewers
> March 26 Episode: 2.393 million viewers
> April 2 Episode: 2.141 million viewers
> April 9 Episode: 2.199 million viewers (post-WrestleMania 35 episode)
> April 16 Episode: 2.219 million viewers (Superstar Shakeup episode)
> April 23 Episode: 2.072 million viewers
> April 30 Episode: 1.833 million viewers
> May 7 Episode: 1.931 million viewers
> May 14 Episode: 1.827 million viewers (taped episode from London)
> May 21 Episode: 1.983 million viewers (post-Money In the Bank episode)
> May 28 Episode: 2.072 million viewers
> June 4 Episode: 2.016 million viewers
> June 11 Episode: 1.930 million viewers (post-Super ShowDown episode)
> June 18 Episode: 1.859 million viewers
> June 25 Episode: 1.921 million viewers (post-Stomping Grounds episode)
> July 2 Episode: 1.890 million viewers
> July 9 Episode: 1.853 million viewers
> July 16 Episode: 2.122 million viewers (post-Extreme Rules episode)
> July 23 Episode:
> 
> 2018 Total: 122.304 million viewers
> 2018 Average: 2.352 million viewers per episode
> 
> 2017 Total: 132.401 million viewers
> 2017 Average: 2.546 million viewers per episode


Source: https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/07/wwe-smackdown-draws-best-viewership-since-april-656477/


----------



## RainmakerV2

Make Owens the face of the show and look what happens. Easy.


----------



## sara sad

The Charlotte effect.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

:shane

WELL GOD DAMMIT, WE HYPE A SHANE SEGMENT AND IT DRAWS A GOOD RATING! BETTER PUT THE BELT ON HIM

:vince5


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Well fuck, Kevin Owens show is a draw.


----------



## rexmundi

FALSE ADVERTISING WORKS!!!! :bryan


----------



## thelastpope16

Ppv bump and teasing a Bryan retirement helped I guess 

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Let's be honest here. The false advertisements is what drew the people in and it is the Smackdown after a pay per view.


----------



## ClintDagger

I think the Bischoff factor, the fact that Raw’s audience built from H1 and was higher in the final two hours, and then the teased announcement all helped.


----------



## Fearless Viper

This can't be just be coincidence. Orton's return maintained Raw's ratings and pop up SDL's rating too! What a GOAT!


----------



## Mordecay

*#ThingsThatHappenWhenYouPromoteAnIIconicsTitleDefense
*
IIconics=Ratings


----------



## Ace

Bischoff and post PPV bump.


----------



## SPCDRI

OWENS IS A DRAW...CONFIRMED


----------



## chronoxiong

Happy they finally hit 2 million viewers again. But I dont think they shouldn't be happy about the false Daniel Bryan annoucement advertisement though.


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

Mordecay said:


> *#ThingsThatHappenWhenYouPromoteAnIIconicsTitleDefense
> *
> IIconics=Ratings


Omg you are so annoying....Iiconics suck


----------



## Kratosx23

What a surprise. Asuka bumped up the ratings after her first match on tv in months. Still got it. Nice try, Vinnie, but you failed. :asuka


----------



## Mongstyle

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> WWE SmackDown Draws Best Viewership Since April
> 
> Source: https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/07/wwe-smackdown-draws-best-viewership-since-april-656477/


Kofi is literally the worst drawing champion in WWE history. Even his chase to the title was a flop looking at those numbers. And Seth is behind him as the second worst.

This shit's hilarious really. The worst combination of champions WWE has ever managed to have.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

It was a PPV week but good to see they finally got a viewership that was barely above 2 million viewers. This is the level we have to measure these things, unfortunately, but at least it's something.

Bischoff "officially" starts next Tuesday since he'll be at the RAW Reunion the previous night. We'll see how long this last.


----------



## Mordecay

deathvalleydriver2 said:


> Omg you are so annoying....Iiconics suck


I thought you said you were going to block me or something, why haven't you?


----------



## TheLooseCanon

Clearly, people tuned in to see Bischoff's first day, since that's the only thing that has changed since April for that rating to go up.

Sadly, we were fooled, no Bischoff, now people will leave again.


----------



## Chris90

Has done it again


----------



## Not Lying

I believe the ratings bump can be attributed to all the factors: Tag title defense, Charlotte's return, post-PPV bump, Eric, and definitely KO turning heads in just 2 weeks. I was never a big KO guy but he changed all that with his promo a couple of weeks back. He would make a much better champion than Kofi.


----------



## Ace

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1153446831545888768
I've seen more people at school plays :lmao


----------



## TyBerns

I'm Back intensifies


----------



## RainmakerV2

2.162 million. Up 40k.




The Kevin Owens Show.


----------



## Randy Lahey

The Raw retention rate is probably the lowest in history. I wish Johnny would come back and post these. Is he ok?


----------



## Chrome

Ace said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1153446831545888768
> I've seen more people at school plays :lmao


Comment section filled with WWE stans in their feelings. :mj4

Put on a better show and you wouldn't have these problems. :draper2


----------



## Fearless Viper

Orton does it again!


----------



## ClintDagger

Randy Lahey said:


> The Raw retention rate is probably the lowest in history. I wish Johnny would come back and post these. Is he ok?


I hope he’s alright. Screw Becky. Johnny was The Man.


----------



## Randy Lahey

ClintDagger said:


> I hope he’s alright. Screw Becky. Johnny was The Man.


I know Shiv left, then came back, but appears to have left again. 2 of my favorite posters were Johnny's viewership breakdowns, and Shiv's revolving cartoons between that girl's legs...cracked me up everytime.


----------



## HankHill_85

'Stone Cold' Kevin Owens beating Shane's ass every week ticking the blue brand up? :draper2


----------



## SPCDRI

Smackdown is hopeless so long as the focal points are going to be Kofi and Shane. Those jokers couldn't draw rats to Baltimore. 

:trump

The only reason the numbers aren't totally belly up is Orton and Owens.


----------



## ClintDagger

Last night did 1.911 million. A drop of 250k or 13% from last week.


----------



## rexmundi

raw was down which hurt smackdown too. I doubt the debate did much damage unless some of their older viewers chose to watch it.


----------



## Chris90

No reason to tune in, again.


----------



## WWEfan4eva

Cole on Raw said SummerSlam is sold out

I wonder how much a lie is that


----------



## InexorableJourney

The double-edged sword.

One week WWE shows the old-timers that people love, the week following there's a mass awakening that we will never see any of their like again (in WWE under Vince), and everyone turns over.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

That rating is not good and not even Trish Stratus who is a star could get the number increased.


----------



## Fearless Viper

There was a huge political debate during SDL show, hence it makes sense for the show's rating to go down.


----------



## llj

Fearless Viper said:


> There was a huge political debate during SDL show, hence it makes sense for the show's rating to go down.


Or it could be just a normal rating.

RAW was low, Smackdown always follows suit


----------



## SPCDRI

rexmundi said:


> raw was down which hurt smackdown too. I doubt the debate did much damage unless some of their older viewers chose to watch it.


Half of the audience is over 50, who knows how much is over 30? I know I was paying split attention to the debate. 

JOBBING TO MARIANNE WILLIAMSON. THAT'S WHAT YOU GET FOR ALL THE CUCK ANGLES, THAT'S DARK PSYCHIC ENERGY!

:mark:

Stand up for WWE? More like Stand With Marianne!

Edit: Females 12-34 - 0.24
They were all watching Williamson, confirmed. ITS A NEW AGE DAY, YES IT IS!


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

...anyways...

Not a good number for SD, Dem debate or not. They cannot afford that viewership to go any further with the FOX debut in October draws near. They need to fix this problem in some form soon or else it will get worse and it will be a problem WWE won't be able to fix then.


----------



## Chan Hung

SPCDRI said:


> rexmundi said:
> 
> 
> 
> raw was down which hurt smackdown too. I doubt the debate did much damage unless some of their older viewers chose to watch it.
> 
> 
> 
> Half of the audience is over 50, who knows how much is over 30? I know I was paying split attention to the debate.
> 
> JOBBING TO MARIANNE WILLIAMSON. THAT'S WHAT YOU GET FOR ALL THE CUCK ANGLES, THAT'S DARK PSYCHIC ENERGY!
> 
> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/GkHkVKq.gif?1" border="0" alt="" title=":mark:" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> Stand up for WWE? More like Stand With Marianne!
> 
> Edit: Females 12-34 - 0.24
> They were all watching Williamson, confirmed. ITS A NEW AGE DAY, YES IT IS!
Click to expand...

They felt the BERN!!!! And got Berned, in the ratings


----------



## The XL 2

The company is dying. You can't survive without an audience. All that TV money is going to dry up eventually.


----------



## bradatar

Down 490k from last year holy shit.

FOX/Shareholders:











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rexmundi

SPCDRI said:


> Half of the audience is over 50, who knows how much is over 30? I know I was paying split attention to the debate.
> 
> JOBBING TO MARIANNE WILLIAMSON. THAT'S WHAT YOU GET FOR ALL THE CUCK ANGLES, THAT'S DARK PSYCHIC ENERGY!
> 
> :mark:
> 
> Stand up for WWE? More like Stand With Marianne!
> 
> Edit: Females 12-34 - 0.24
> They were all watching Williamson, confirmed. ITS A NEW AGE DAY, YES IT IS!


I stand at attention for Marianne. :salute She's pretty sexy for a 60+ year old woman. Take a couple of decades off her and :banderas Tulsi Gabbard is pretty nice too


----------



## Fearless Viper

llj said:


> Or it could be just a normal rating.
> 
> RAW was low, Smackdown always follows suit


Sometimes they don't. Also the dems debate had the highest demo of that night and we know SD used to be the highest demo every week but not this week. It's obvious that it was affected by competition. SDL probably would have around 2M viewership had it was a normal night imo.


----------



## Ace

A week of SD house shows were cancelled because of poor ticket sales according to Dave :lmao


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 8/6/19 Vs 7/30/19 ):
2.088M Vs 1.911M ( + 0.177M / + 9.26% )
0.630D Vs 0.570D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.088M Vs 2.473M ( - 0.385M / 84.43% )
0.630D Vs 0.810D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 8/6/19 Vs 8/7/18 ):
2.088M Vs 2.197M ( - 0.109M / - 4.96% )
0.630D Vs 0.730D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.197M Vs 2.804M ( - 0.607M / 78.35% )
0.730D Vs 0.930D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Demographics & Viewership: [07/09/19]*

*Viewership & Demo ( 7/9/19 Vs 7/2/19 ):
1.853M Vs 1.890M ( - 0.037M / - 1.96% )
0.530D Vs 0.560D

SDL Vs RAW:
1.853M Vs 2.352M ( - 0.499M / 75.72% )
0.530D Vs 0.723D*

*Note: SDL is 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 7/9/19 Vs 7/10/18 ):
1.853M Vs 2.183M ( - 0.330M / - 15.12% )
0.530D Vs 0.680D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.183M Vs 2.470M ( - 0.287M / 88.38% )
0.680D Vs 0.780D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Demographics & Viewership: [07/16/19]*

*Viewership & Demo ( 7/16/19 Vs 7/9/19 ):
2.122M Vs 1.853M ( + 0.269M / + 14.52% )
0.650D Vs 0.530D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.122M Vs 2.453M ( - 0.331M / 86.51% )
0.650D Vs 0.800D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 7/16/19 Vs 7/17/18 ):
2.122M Vs 2.293M ( - 0.171M / - 7.46% )
0.650D Vs 0.740D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.293M Vs 2.866M ( - 0.573M / 80.01% )
0.740D Vs 0.960D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*










*Demographics & Viewership: [07/23/19]*

*Viewership & Demo ( 7/23/19 Vs 7/16/19 ):
2.162M Vs 2.122M ( + 0.040M / + 1.89% )
0.650D Vs 0.650D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.162M Vs 3.093M ( - 0.931M / 69.90% )
0.650D Vs 1.137D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 7/23/19 Vs 7/24/18 ):
2.162M Vs 2.340M ( - 0.178M / - 7.61% )
0.650D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.340M Vs 2.780M ( - 0.440M / 84.17% )
0.650D Vs 0.923D

Note: SDL this week last year was 4th by demo & 6th by viewership.*










*Demographics & Viewership: [07/30/19]*

*Viewership & Demo ( 7/30/19 Vs 7/23/19 ):
1.911M Vs 2.162M ( - 0.251M / - 11.61% )
0.570D Vs 0.650D

SDL Vs RAW:
1.911M Vs 2.321M ( - 0.410M / 82.34% )
0.570D Vs 0.743D*

*Note: SDL is 5th by demo & 12th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 7/30/19 Vs 7/31/18 ):
1.911M Vs 2.401M ( - 0.490M / - 20.41% )
0.570D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.401M Vs 2.901M ( - 0.500M / 82.77% )
0.750D Vs 0.987D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*


----------



## ClintDagger

Not great for SS go home but at least it’s over 2MM. Based on what Jonny posted, it’s only better than last week’s rating if you look at the last 5 or 6 plus shows.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

It BARELY touched 2 million, though. On a week that is the final hype before Summerslam. Not good at all.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 8/13/19 Vs 8/6/19 ):
2.164M Vs 2.088M ( + 0.076M / + 3.64% )
0.670D Vs 0.630D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.164M Vs 2.729M ( - 0.565M / 79.30% )
0.670D Vs 0.917D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 8/13/19 Vs 8/14/18 ):
2.164M Vs 2.189M ( - 0.025M / - 1.14% )
0.670D Vs 0.700D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.189M Vs 2.825M ( - 0.636M / 77.49% )
0.700D Vs 0.967D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 6th by viewership.*










*-Lowest post SS SD viewership in nearly 20 years.
-Lowest post SS SD demographic in nearly 20 years.*


----------



## Fearless Viper

- 1.14% from last year...


----------



## Ace

That's an awful number considering it was post SummerSlam + the number Raw got :lmao

They're running the who did it storyline too.


----------



## ClintDagger

Not good at all. The people that watched Raw obviously weren’t excited about what they saw nor cared about tuning in for the Fiend. I honestly thought they might threaten 2.5 million after Monday’s number.


----------



## rexmundi

Almost no bump at all. The best thing you can say is that at least it didn't go down. Any additional raw viewers this week did not carry over to smackdown.


----------



## llj

It's because Smackdown's best draws have been appearing on RAW lately :asuka

In all honesty, this rating probably shows that the bump for RAW is a bit of a mirage when it comes to judging if the product is recovering any viewers for real. In the past, Smackdown usually followed RAW trends up or down but lately it's been less predictable for both which means viewers still aren't really coming back to the WWE regardless of the odd unusually high bump for RAW or Smackdown.


----------



## rexmundi

I did read this had the most viewers of any episode since April 16th which was the Superstar Shakeup. They are slowly gaining more viewers. After having been under 2M 9 weeks out of 11, they have been over it four of the last five weeks. Baby steps but no huge gains.


----------



## SPCDRI

Easy E has a knack for making things better!

:mark:


----------



## tducey

Going up is a good thing. Work on things to make the product better, that'll gain you the needed viewers you need going into the debut on FOX.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 8/20/19 Vs 8/13/19 ):
2.142M Vs 2.164M ( - 0.022M / - 1.02% )
0.680D Vs 0.670D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.142M Vs 2.534M ( - 0.392M / 84.53% )
0.680D Vs 0.810D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 8/20/19 Vs 8/21/18 ):
2.142M Vs 2.437M ( - 0.295M / - 12.11% )
0.680D Vs 0.770D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.437M Vs 3.096M ( - 0.659M / 78.71% )
0.770D Vs 1.060D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 11th by viewership.*


----------



## Erik.

Ouch


----------



## llj




----------



## rbl85

It's not that bad no ?

I mean it's going to be way worse in a few weeks.


----------



## Y.2.J

Not bad in my opinion?

Very small dip, not a huge drop at least.

2.1m...I wonder if Fox would be content if they could hold a 2m+ number.


----------



## SPCDRI

Y.2.J said:


> Not bad in my opinion?
> 
> Very small dip, not a huge drop at least.
> 
> 2.1m...I wonder if Fox would be content if they could hold a 2m+ number.


Fuck no, they'd be outraged. This is taking up a 2 hour chunk of primetime and replacing a show that would routinely go over 4 million viewers, Last Man Standing. FOX would be shitting glass pineapples sideways if nearly 2 million flat was the norm. If its true that FOX has to air them on Friday on FOX, FOX would be irate. A bunch of people would be getting demoted, shanghai'd off of top projects and shuffled around to whatever the FOX equivalent of getting sent to Siberia is or they'd be flat out fired and then FOX would either try to move Smackdown, alleged contract clauses be damned, or just buy them out and cut bait rather than having a show do 2 million for 2 hours every week for *5 years*.

Edit: Though the time slot they are giving Smackdown is usually held to have really low ratings historically and is considered FOX's "death slot." When they want to cancel sitcoms, they move them from their initial time slot and run them 8-10 eastern on Friday.


----------



## llj

They will get a bump on FOX simply by being on more TV sets, but there's no way they can stay above 2 million for 5 whole years. I suspect they will already struggle with holding their current numbers within a year on Fox.


----------



## validreasoning

SPCDRI said:


> Fuck no, they'd be outraged. This is taking up a 2 hour chunk of primetime and replacing a show that would routinely go over 4 million viewers, Last Man Standing. FOX would be shitting glass pineapples sideways if nearly 2 million flat was the norm. If its true that FOX has to air them on Friday on FOX, FOX would be irate. A bunch of people would be getting demoted, shanghai'd off of top projects and shuffled around to whatever the FOX equivalent of getting sent to Siberia is or they'd be flat out fired and then FOX would either try to move Smackdown, alleged contract clauses be damned, or just buy them out and cut bait rather than having a show do 2 million for 2 hours every week for *5 years*.
> 
> Edit: Though the time slot they are giving Smackdown is usually held to have really low ratings historically and is considered FOX's "death slot." When they want to cancel sitcoms, they move them from their initial time slot and run them 8-10 eastern on Friday.


Last Man Standing only airs for 30 minutes each episode, 20 times a year or so. SD getting that two hour slot wouldn't be like for like.

It's not like LMS has been cancelled and Fox can easily air it on a better night ie Monday to Wednesday or Thursday from January on once NFL finishes.

Networks look at more than pure viewership too. 18-49 demo is key one. The 8-10pm slot last 52 weeks on Fox Friday ie August 24 2018 to August 16 2019 has averaged 0.6 in 18-49.

SD has averaged 0.7 in 18-49 demo on usa same period.

Given that number of homes will grow by 30 million or increase by 1/3 it's not out of the realms of possiblity SD 18-49 demo could grow by upwards of 30% as well.


----------



## ClintDagger

validreasoning said:


> Last Man Standing only airs for 30 minutes each episode, 20 times a year or so. SD getting that two hour slot wouldn't be like for like.
> 
> It's not like LMS has been cancelled and Fox can easily air it on a better night ie Monday to Wednesday or Thursday from January on once NFL finishes.
> 
> Networks look at more than pure viewership too. 18-49 demo is key one. The 8-10pm slot last 52 weeks on Fox Friday ie August 24 2018 to August 16 2019 has averaged 0.6 in 18-49.
> 
> SD has averaged 0.7 in 18-49 demo on usa same period.
> 
> Given that number of homes will grow by 30 million or increase by 1/3 it's not out of the realms of possiblity SD 18-49 demo could grow by upwards of 30% as well.


Here’s the thing, last September LMS was doing like 8 million viewers with almost a 2.0 in the key demo. Then the show after it was doing like 6 million viewers with a 1.5 million in the key demo. The 9pm show was an hour long and did over 3 million with about a 1.0 in the key demo. That’s a two hour average of like 5 million viewers and close to a 1.4 in the key demo. That’s probably a hot night, so assume 75% of that on a bad night because I’m sure things slid some as Fall rolled on but still, SD has its work cut out to come anywhere close to that kind of two hour total. It’s not like Fox was rolling out LMS on Friday nights followed up by 1.5 hours of trash. All things considered, I am honestly scratching my head as to why Fox did this to begin with given what they are paying WWE.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 8/27/19 Vs 8/20/19 ):
2.088M Vs 2.142M ( - 0.054M / - 2.52% )
0.640D Vs 0.680D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.088M Vs 2.528M ( - 0.440M / 82.60% )
0.640D Vs 0.797D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 8/27/19 Vs 8/28/18 ):
2.088M Vs 2.350M ( - 0.262M / - 11.15% )
0.640D Vs 0.750D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.350M Vs 2.878M ( - 0.528M / 81.65% )
0.750D Vs 0.967D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 5th by viewership.*


----------



## ClintDagger

Yikes. Sub 2 million very much in play next week I suppose.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Not good heading into October. They need to get SD into gear soon and quick.


----------



## Jonhern

validreasoning said:


> Last Man Standing only airs for 30 minutes each episode, 20 times a year or so. SD getting that two hour slot wouldn't be like for like.
> 
> It's not like LMS has been cancelled and Fox can easily air it on a better night ie Monday to Wednesday or Thursday from January on once NFL finishes.
> 
> Networks look at more than pure viewership too. 18-49 demo is key one. The 8-10pm slot last 52 weeks on Fox Friday ie August 24 2018 to August 16 2019 has averaged 0.6 in 18-49.
> 
> SD has averaged 0.7 in 18-49 demo on usa same period.
> 
> Given that number of homes will grow by 30 million or increase by 1/3 it's not out of the realms of possiblity SD 18-49 demo could grow by upwards of 30% as well.


This so much, its all about the demo, people need to stop focusing so much on total viewers, that's not very important when it comes to TV ratings, its the demo. So even though LMS might get millions more, SDL can still deliver similar ratings with fewer people, and if you really look at how much Fox is paying for smackdown per hour, cost them less than the production of LMS and another show for the other half hour, and they also have new episodes all year long. Fox doesn't own a studio anymore, they want programming like SDL since it will be cheaper than buying scripted shows from 3rd party studios.


----------



## Jonhern

ClintDagger said:


> Here’s the thing, last September LMS was doing like 8 million viewers with almost a 2.0 in the key demo. Then the show after it was doing like 6 million viewers with a 1.5 million in the key demo. The 9pm show was an hour long and did over 3 million with about a 1.0 in the key demo. That’s a two hour average of like 5 million viewers and close to a 1.4 in the key demo. That’s probably a hot night, so assume 75% of that on a bad night because I’m sure things slid some as Fall rolled on but still, SD has its work cut out to come anywhere close to that kind of two hour total. It’s not like Fox was rolling out LMS on Friday nights followed up by 1.5 hours of trash. All things considered, I am honestly scratching my head as to why Fox did this to begin with given what they are paying WWE.


LMS was doing well after the controversy over it being canceled by ABC, the conservative media latched on to the idea it was canceled because Tim Allen was conservative, but that wasn't really true, it was canceled because it cost too much compared to the ratings it got. So when it moved to fox it got a boost because of that, but then did worse as the season went on and the news cycle moved on. 

And cost is key here, SDL is not that expensive if you break it down by hour, its around 2 million an hour. ABC canceled LMS because it cost too much. 
For the ratings SDL gets, even still with them being down, it is much cheaper than anything else they could produce that could get those kind of ratings, not to mention those ratings are all year long. These are 2017 numbers, so they would be higher now but gives an idea on why the networks were willing to pay them this much, especially FOX which sold off its studios to Disney, which would make original programming much more expensive for them than it used to be:
"The estimates on the cost of content that emerged from these interviews peg the typical range of the production budget for high-end cable and streaming dramas at $5 million-$7 million an hour, *while single-camera half hours on broadcast and cable run from $1.5 million to more than $3 million*." I can bet that LMS is on the high end of that scale because it has a long time star in Tim Allen, so SDL 2 hours cost a little more than one half hour of LMS likely. So WWE is actually a bargain when you consider its live, somewhat dvr proof, and they run all year long.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 9/3/19 Vs 8/27/19 ):
2.130M Vs 2.088M ( + 0.042M / + 2.01% )
0.650D Vs 0.640D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.130M Vs 2.507M ( - 0.377M / 84.96% )
0.650D Vs 0.830D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 9/3/19 Vs 9/4/18 ):
2.130M Vs 2.319M ( - 0.189M / - 8.15% )
0.650D Vs 0.770D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.319M Vs 2.873M ( - 0.554M / 80.72% )
0.770D Vs 0.973D

Note: SDL this week last year was 3rd by demo & 10th by viewership.*


----------



## ClintDagger

Jonhern said:


> LMS was doing well after the controversy over it being canceled by ABC, the conservative media latched on to the idea it was canceled because Tim Allen was conservative, but that wasn't really true, it was canceled because it cost too much compared to the ratings it got. So when it moved to fox it got a boost because of that, but then did worse as the season went on and the news cycle moved on.
> 
> And cost is key here, SDL is not that expensive if you break it down by hour, its around 2 million an hour. ABC canceled LMS because it cost too much.
> For the ratings SDL gets, even still with them being down, it is much cheaper than anything else they could produce that could get those kind of ratings, not to mention those ratings are all year long. These are 2017 numbers, so they would be higher now but gives an idea on why the networks were willing to pay them this much, especially FOX which sold off its studios to Disney, which would make original programming much more expensive for them than it used to be:
> "The estimates on the cost of content that emerged from these interviews peg the typical range of the production budget for high-end cable and streaming dramas at $5 million-$7 million an hour, *while single-camera half hours on broadcast and cable run from $1.5 million to more than $3 million*." I can bet that LMS is on the high end of that scale because it has a long time star in Tim Allen, so SDL 2 hours cost a little more than one half hour of LMS likely. So WWE is actually a bargain when you consider its live, somewhat dvr proof, and they run all year long.


It’s not about cost necessarily as much as it is IRR and ROE. There’s much more perceived prestige due to the demos of a show like LMS versus the horrid demos a SD brings. That equals affiliate fees and other rights fees, plus ad revenue. So yes, while cost is part of that equation it’s not the be all end all. How much of an audience drop (and therefore possible rights fees or other revenue drop) can Fox stomach before the cheaper chicken in WWE is no longer attractive? There’s a reason why all of a sudden Collier is calling WWE a “gamble” and pointing to Shanks to sell it. Fox is already leery of the numbers.


----------



## Zappers

Bottom line is MONEY.

FOX will make a boatload off of Smackdown. It will not only fulfill it's contract, but it will get a renewal towards the end. They didn't outbid USA Network for nothing. Who themselves just signed a huge contract extension AND signed a NXT deal.


Something tells me USA and FOX are not worried in the slightest.


----------



## ClintDagger

Zappers said:


> Bottom line is MONEY.
> 
> FOX will make a boatload off of Smackdown. It will not only fulfill it's contract, but it will get a renewal towards the end. They didn't outbid USA Network for nothing. Who themselves just signed a huge contract extension AND signed a NXT deal.
> 
> 
> Something tells me USA and FOX are not worried in the slightest.


If that’s the case, why is USA getting in WWE’s mix and pitching ideas to increase viewership? Do you think the head of Fox likes being asked if they regret the deal and if the low viewership concerns them by reporters? If Collier wasn’t worried, why is he already hinting that SD might get moved to FS1 as their slot on Fox is seen as possibly “temporary” and more of a “Fox Sports” property? Remember, Collier came from AMC and arrived after the WWE deal. Collier wants Fox to churn out stuff along the lines of Breaking Bad, Mad Men, etcetera. If SD is a ratings monster I’m sure he'll live with it. But I don’t think he would hesitate to ax it should it struggle. I think people forget how polarizing wrestling is at these networks. It’s only redeeming quality is sheer volume. Once that’s gone, there’s zero reason to keep it.


----------



## Zappers

ClintDagger said:


> If that’s the case, why is USA getting in WWE’s mix and pitching ideas to increase viewership? Do you think the head of Fox likes being asked if they regret the deal and if the low viewership concerns them by reporters? If Collier wasn’t worried, why is he already hinting that SD might get moved to FS1 as their slot on Fox is seen as possibly “temporary” and more of a “Fox Sports” property? Remember, Collier came from AMC and arrived after the WWE deal. Collier wants Fox to churn out stuff along the lines of Breaking Bad, Mad Men, etcetera. If SD is a ratings monster I’m sure he'll live with it. But I don’t think he would hesitate to ax it should it struggle. I think people forget how polarizing wrestling is at these networks. It’s only redeeming quality is sheer volume. Once that’s gone, there’s zero reason to keep it.


Ok about USA getting into the "mix and pitching ideas". I highly doubt it. Don't believe what you hear on the dirtsheets.

Collier hasn't hinted about anything about moving to FS1. FS1 will absolutely 100% have WWE programing. They explained this already when the deal was made. Plus I know somebody that works there, they have shows being set up as we speak. SD is not moving off their main network.

As far as Collier:

“I’m a guy that came out of cable, and for the last few decades in cable, what’s driven the *No. 1 network has been wrestling*, and so for us to have a consistent presence is thrilling.”

He's talking about USA channel.

When asked about the ratings and what if it doesn't pan out like they hoped.

“In terms of protections, this is a company that historically really leaned into NFL at a time where I think no one thought Fox could do so, and they’ve turned out to become the leading purveyor of the NFL. And we’re leaning into WWE with just as much enthusiasm."


That's all I need to know about the situation. They are overjoyed and ecstatic to have WWE on their channel. It's gonna be a great success. FOX is all in on this WWE deal.


----------



## tducey

Going to be interesting to see what FOX does with wrestling. They do pretty good with the NFL and MLB.


----------



## Joseph92

Starting off the show with The Undertaker. If the Fiend does not attack him I will be very disappointed with this appearance.

Edit: PLEASE DELETE THIS POST.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 9/10/19 Vs 9/3/19 ):
2.061M Vs 2.130M ( - 0.069M / - 3.24% )
0.620D Vs 0.650D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.061M Vs 2.130M ( - 0.069M / 96.76% )
0.620D Vs 0.693D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 7th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 9/10/19 Vs 9/11/18 ):
2.061M Vs 2.229M ( - 0.168M / - 7.54% )
0.620D Vs 0.720D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.229M Vs 2.740M ( - 0.511M / 81.35% )
0.720D Vs 0.893D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 7th by viewership.*


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

YIKES, That's with Undertaker being promoted


----------



## Dat dude Savage

Rough ratings. Guess that’s what happens when you turn a hot act like KO into a geek


----------



## llj

This is actually a good rating for Smackdown since I expected it to go under 2.0. 

So I'm disappointed, really.


----------



## Sephiroth766

I guess people don't care about zombie mixed martial artist wizards anymore. The plummeting value of nostalgia acts is dramatic.


----------



## ClintDagger

That’s bad considering they had Taker and MSG pushed so hard. They are going sub 2.0 after this week I would think.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Super close to beating Raw, which is about the only positive in this number.


----------



## Jonhern

ClintDagger said:


> If that’s the case, why is USA getting in WWE’s mix and pitching ideas to increase viewership? Do you think the head of Fox likes being asked if they regret the deal and if the low viewership concerns them by reporters? If Collier wasn’t worried, why is he already hinting that SD might get moved to FS1 as their slot on Fox is seen as possibly “temporary” and more of a “Fox Sports” property? Remember, Collier came from AMC and arrived after the WWE deal. Collier wants Fox to churn out stuff along the lines of Breaking Bad, Mad Men, etcetera. If SD is a ratings monster I’m sure he'll live with it. But I don’t think he would hesitate to ax it should it struggle. I think people forget how polarizing wrestling is at these networks. It’s only redeeming quality is sheer volume. Once that’s gone, there’s zero reason to keep it.


If you have followed any of the industry talk then you would not be saying fox is wanting a mad men or breaking bad. They want cheap content since they have sold off their studios to Disney, making content more expensive for them since they can't count on several extra revenue streams like syndication and streaming rights if they have a hit show that costs a lot to produce. As soon as they sold their studios people predicted they would focus on sports and reality TV to reduce costs. Shortly after that what did they do? Went after smackdown. This is exactly the kind of content they want for fox broadcast. Cheap per hour, live, sports originated, and the biggest thing which really helps USA be the biggest cable channel, on all year long, taking out 2 hours every week. 2 hours that that they don't have to worry about filling. Sdl is not moving to fs1.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

I was really expecting sub 2M. Not too far off though will see that next week. KO neutered more and the "red-hot" Rowan/Roman feud :booklel It will be post PPV if that means it can keeping it above 2M for one more week I wouldn't bet on it.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Sephiroth766 said:


> I guess people don't care about zombie mixed martial artist wizards anymore. The plummeting value of nostalgia acts is dramatic.


You mean Taker? Upon reading that first I just couldn't help but think of Aleister Black FIRST. Like, MMA? Zombie? Took me a while to deduce it's Taker!


----------



## ClintDagger

Jonhern said:


> If you have followed any of the industry talk then you would not be saying fox is wanting a mad men or breaking bad. They want cheap content since they have sold off their studios to Disney, making content more expensive for them since they can't count on several extra revenue streams like syndication and streaming rights if they have a hit show that costs a lot to produce. As soon as they sold their studios people predicted they would focus on sports and reality TV to reduce costs. Shortly after that what did they do? Went after smackdown. This is exactly the kind of content they want for fox broadcast. Cheap per hour, live, sports originated, and the biggest thing which really helps USA be the biggest cable channel, on all year long, taking out 2 hours every week. 2 hours that that they don't have to worry about filling. Sdl is not moving to fs1.


Do your research my friend. They passed over Gary Newman who had the vision you stated and brought in Charlie Collier who was President and GM of AMC with the expressed goal of doing the kind of programming that AMC has done in recent years. Meaning serious, critically acclaimed type programming. They do want to pair it with live content like the NFL and if WWE does well I’m sure they won’t kick it to the curb. The WWE deal happened 6 months before Collier was brought in and he hasn’t been very warm & fuzzy towards that deal in some interviews. He’s made several statements indicating he sees SD as a “Fox Sports” property and not necessarily something in his purview. Which many take as a sign that Collier would push it to FS1 in a heartbeat if it flails in the ratings. I’m not predicting it will go to FS1 but anyone who doesn’t see it as a real possibility before the end of the 5 year term hasn’t been reading the tea leaves.


----------



## SPCDRI

Sephiroth766 said:


> I guess people don't care about zombie mixed martial artist wizards anymore. The plummeting value of nostalgia acts is dramatic.


I think people would be really hot for it if he was a younger guy in his 20s to 30s and they hadn't seen anybody do the gimmick before. Undertaker has been around in some form or fashion in WWF/WWE for how long now? Coming up on 30 years? Why would anybody care to watch him do something before a B PPV like clash of champions?


----------



## chronoxiong

Still over 2 million viewers while RAW is sinking hard. This week's rating has to be considered a win still.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 9/17/19 Vs 9/10/19 ):
2.064M Vs 2.061M ( + 0.003M / + 0.15% )
0.630D Vs 0.620D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.064M Vs 2.272M ( - 0.208M / 90.85% )
0.630D Vs 0.717D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 8th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 9/17/19 Vs 9/18/18 ):
2.064M Vs 2.281M ( - 0.217M / - 9.51% )
0.630D Vs 0.780D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.281M Vs 2.672M ( - 0.391M / 85.37% )
0.780D Vs 0.903D

Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 8th by viewership.*


----------



## Ace

That 3k post PPV bump :lol


----------



## ClintDagger

Odd that they didn’t move at all after the PPV. Goes to show the featured SD people (status quo) have no positive impact on the numbers.


----------



## SPCDRI

BROCK LESNAR. Gazillion dollar contract bringing that 3000 VIEWER BUMP



:mark:

:vince$


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan

that's kinda pathetic to only get 3000 extra views with brock and three of the 4hw.


----------



## InexorableJourney

When Real Housewives goes up, that's SDL's true competition.


So many blondes, Vince must be apoplectic.


----------



## Jonhern

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *Viewership & Demo ( 9/17/19 Vs 9/10/19 ):
> 2.064M Vs 2.061M ( + 0.003M / + 0.15% )
> 0.630D Vs 0.620D
> 
> SDL Vs RAW:
> 2.064M Vs 2.272M ( - 0.208M / 90.85% )
> 0.630D Vs 0.717D*
> 
> *Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 8th by viewership.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Viewership & Demo ( 9/17/19 Vs 9/18/18 ):
> 2.064M Vs 2.281M ( - 0.217M / - 9.51% )
> 0.630D Vs 0.780D
> 
> SDL Vs RAW:
> 2.281M Vs 2.672M ( - 0.391M / 85.37% )
> 0.780D Vs 0.903D
> 
> Note: SDL this week last year was 2nd by demo & 8th by viewership.*


The demo is a 19% drop over last year. They are losing people aged 18-49 faster than other groups since it's under 10% drop overall.


----------



## SPCDRI

RAW lost 40 percent of its under 40 year old viewership in the past 30 months and Smackdown has taken a drubbing as well. All those hundreds of thousands that used to watch Smackdown and the million+ that used to watch RAW? That is the Young Audience Exodus. That's the preponderance of the ratings drop. 50+ year old is more than half of WWE's audience and remained loyal, only dropped a bit, in line with viewership drop for other television programming, but younger people have ran for the exits.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Viewership & Demo ( 9/24/19 Vs 9/17/19 ):
2.099M Vs 2.064M ( + 0.035M / + 1.70% )
0.670D Vs 0.630D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.099M Vs 2.210M ( - 0.111M / 94.98% )
0.670D Vs 0.707D*

*Note: SDL is 1st by demo & 13th by viewership.*










*Viewership & Demo ( 9/24/19 Vs 9/25/18 ):
2.099M Vs 2.193M ( - 0.094M / - 4.29% )
0.670D Vs 0.720D

SDL Vs RAW:
2.193M Vs 2.350M ( - 0.157M / 93.32% )
0.720D Vs 0.830D

Note: SDL this week last year was 1st by demo & 9th by viewership.*


----------



## ClintDagger

I guess next week we’ll have to adjust to a new normal. I expect at least 3.5 million out of the gate. I think for WWE and Fox to feel good about the future they need to do well over 4 million.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

ClintDagger said:


> I guess next week we’ll have to adjust to a new normal. I expect at least 3.5 million out of the gate. I think for WWE and Fox to feel good about the future they need to do well over 4 million.


How big is the gap in total homes available between USA and Fox?


----------



## ClintDagger

Lenny Leonard said:


> How big is the gap in total homes available between USA and Fox?


I thought I heard 30M. Someone correct me if I’m wrong please. So if the same percentage of people watch SD among that group they’d get an additional 600k or so. Couple that with the assumption that the casual fans that tune in for the big shows like say Raw 1000, I think another million to million and a half is very doable in the short term. Long term I think they will be well under 3M.


----------



## Bennu

NondescriptWWEfan said:


> that's kinda pathetic to only get 3000 extra views with brock and three of the 4hw.


Like I said before, Brock is not a guarantee ratings boost anymore, I don't think anybody is.


----------



## KINGROSS

*Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

As the title says - how many viewers are you expecting? 

3.5 million?


----------



## Ace

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

3.1m

If they do under 3m, WWE is in for a bad time on Fox.


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

My expectations are low, so I'll go with somewhere between 2.7-2.9 million viewers.


----------



## CesaroSwing

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*



KINGROSS said:


> As the title says - how many viewers are you expecting?
> 
> 3.5 million?





Ace said:


> 3.1m
> 
> If they do under 3m, WWE is in for a bad time on Fox.


3million plus? Am I missing something?


----------



## Ace

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*



CesaroSwing said:


> 3million plus? Am I missing something?


 Fox is in a lot more homes, first show and Fox have been promoting SD hard.


----------



## KINGROSS

CesaroSwing said:


> KINGROSS said:
> 
> 
> 
> As the title says - how many viewers are you expecting?
> 
> 3.5 million?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ace said:
> 
> 
> 
> 3.1m
> 
> If they do under 3m, WWE is in for a bad time on Fox.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 3million plus? Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Fox have promoted this HARD, first show, Brock wrestling on the show for the title and Fox is in LOADS more homes than USA. If they don’t do more than 3 million then they are in trouble!


----------



## Kratosx23

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*



Ace said:


> Fox is in a lot more homes, first show and Fox have been promoting SD hard.


They also lost Dish, which is in like 12 million homes. 

IDK, I'll go under 3 million, maybe 2.8. I don't see a ton of interest in this show. We know Brock is winning, I can't see anyone excited for that, I don't see anyone caring about Owens vs Shane, and they just did a legends come back show a month ago or so, which they shouldn't have done. That was a cheap ratings stunt for one week which will only lessen the impact of this one.

If they want a 3+, imo, they should advertise Rock or reach a deal with CM Punk and advertise him once that's complete.


----------



## Lorromire

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

The rating it's been for years, PG13+.

Appreciate my joke you bastards.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

I'm predicting 2.7 but I would like to see it be higher. Even though it would be a false high. I'm not sure that the first show with it being an "event" episode and the second episode is also somewhat of an "event" episode with the draft are what you need to be predicting the rating for. The October 18th SD is the one that tells the tale at least for the immediate future because that will presumably be your regular audience.



Kratosx23 said:


> They also lost Dish, which is in like 12 million homes.
> 
> IDK, I'll go under 3 million, maybe 2.8. I don't see a ton of interest in this show. We know Brock is winning, I can't see anyone excited for that, I don't see anyone caring about Owens vs Shane, and they just did a legends come back show a month ago or so, which they shouldn't have done. That was a cheap ratings stunt for one week which will only lessen the impact of this one.
> 
> If they want a 3+, imo, they should advertise Rock or reach a deal with CM Punk and advertise him once that's complete.




One-off appearances or big returns like that don't mean your ratings will stay at that level after the initial spike. Not to mention that even advertising guys like Steve Austin aren't helping ratings spike these days. I don't know why everyone thinks that stunts like this are an effective solution for the problem. It's not sustainable. Daniel Bryan who was more over than Punk ever was in WWE couldn't sustain a rating after coming back as a full-time performer. Eventually and usually in short order, the status quo returns. The issue with WWE isn't just that they lack people who are over they lack an interesting product and that can and will bring anyone down. I will also question just how interested non-wrestling fans are in CM Punk especially when seeing him means they would have to watch a wrestling product that is clearly not even close top being geared toward the non-wrestling fanbase. I do however know that he isn't in the same league as the Rock in terms of interest level from non-wrestling fans. I don't know if there is a comparison between the two and I'm not sure that The Rock being advertised for a show would spike a million extra viewers.

You know what else you don't see, hear, or read? An abundance of people who were lamenting not having USA Network so they couldn't watch wrestling. I'm not sure the US fanbase with an interest in seeing wrestling is much bigger than what we see the shows getting right now.


----------



## tducey

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

3.2 million.


----------



## Kratosx23

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*



MonkasaurusRex said:


> One-off appearances or big returns like that don't mean your ratings will stay at that level after the initial spike. Not to mention that even advertising guys like Steve Austin aren't helping ratings spike these days. I don't know why everyone thinks that stunts like this are an effective solution for the problem. It's not sustainable. Daniel Bryan who was more over than Punk ever was in WWE couldn't sustain a rating after coming back as a full-time performer. Eventually and usually in short order, the status quo returns. The issue with WWE isn't just that they lack people who are over they lack an interesting product and that can and will bring anyone down. I will also question just how interested non-wrestling fans are in CM Punk especially when seeing him means they would have to watch a wrestling product that is clearly not even close top being geared toward the non-wrestling fanbase. I do however know that he isn't in the same league as the Rock in terms of interest level from non-wrestling fans. I don't know if there is a comparison between the two and I'm not sure that The Rock being advertised for a show would spike a million extra viewers.
> 
> You know what else you don't see, hear, or read? An abundance of people who were lamenting not having USA Network so they couldn't watch wrestling. I'm not sure the US fanbase with an interest in seeing wrestling is much bigger than what we see the shows getting right now.


What are you rambling about? Where, in that entire post did I say that it was sustainable? Of course it isn't sustainable. Their goal is to get a big rating for the FIRST show.

Austin means dick. He's returned 1000 times. Rock is the biggest movie star in the world and nobody would draw more interest for a return than Punk, given how he left the company and the shit both sides have flung at each other. Him returning would be the biggest news item in years. The fact that Daniel Bryan was more over than him meant nothing, Punk was a main event who had an insanely ugly split with WWE and people have been waiting for him to return forever.


----------



## JeSeGaN

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

Somewhere around the 2.8-3 mark. After that, it'll drop steadily.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

If it doesn’t get a big rating, they’re done!


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

They'll most likely speaking, get 3 million or above. And from then on it's on them to keep it up. I reckon they can do it.


----------



## TheLooseCanon

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

3 million? 

2.3 at best


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

2.8M viewers
.79 rating in the demo

More 50+ viewers will tune in, but the 18-49 crowd won't increase because they go out on Fridays.


----------



## Kratosx23

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*



PhenomenalOne11 said:


> They'll most likely speaking, get 3 million or above. And from then on it's on them to keep it up.* I reckon they can do it*.


And of course, you're basing this on their absolutely sterling track record of both ratings and critical success in recent years.....


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*



KINGROSS said:


> Fox have promoted this HARD, first show, Brock wrestling on the show for the title and Fox is in LOADS more homes than USA. If they don’t do more than 3 million then they are in trouble!


Comparing broadcast to cable isn't a fair comparison. That said it's only roughly 29 million homes different and with the loss of 12 million of those it's 17(it sounds like a lot until you take into account the number of people who watch wrestling) and roughly 3% of homes that get USA Network watch wrestling on a good day currently thus at an added 17 million homes that equates to only 510,000 more viewers which would put SD at roughly 2.5-2.7 million viewers. At the added 29 million(with Dish included) homes it's only 870,000 more viewers on a big night. Which would put the total at somewhere between 2.7-3.o million again on a good night. And that is IF you truly believe that there are extra viewers out there itching to watch WWE but haven't been because they don't get USA which is a big IF. So it isn't completely out of the realm of possibility for WWE to fall below 3 million viewers on FOX Especially in regards to episodes that aren't loaded with "extras" and "big" matches(so you know most of them)

These are of course calculated using Nielsens estimated numbers for network availability and Homes with TVs and estimating WWE's high-end numbers based on recent history.


----------



## Anoche

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

9.5M viewers


----------



## deadcool

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

Around 2 million


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*



Kratosx23 said:


> What are you rambling about? Where, in that entire post did I say that it was sustainable? Of course it isn't sustainable. Their goal is to get a big rating for the FIRST show.
> 
> Austin means dick. He's returned 1000 times. Rock is the biggest movie star in the world and nobody would draw more interest for a return than Punk, given how he left the company and the shit both sides have flung at each other. Him returning would be the biggest news item in years. The fact that Daniel Bryan was more over than him meant nothing, Punk was a main event who had an insanely ugly split with WWE and people have been waiting for him to return forever.


You're still assuming that there is a huge number of people that don't still watch the show that would be interested in seeing CM Punk in wrestling again. Would he add viewers sure but the number wouldn't be as high as you believe it would.

The Rock is a completely different animal than CM Punk. and as I said I don't think he would even add a million viewers to a wrestling show if advertised. The public interest in wrestling isn't there and the majority of people who watch Rock's movies don't care about wrestling anyway.

I also don't understand the fascination that people have with popping a big number if it isn't something that you can't sustain that number long term. It's just a bad way to do business.

What fucking good is a big rating for one show if you are going to immediately lose 20% of that audience the next week? The GOAL should be to get a big rating for EVERY show. If it isn't then you're doing it wrong.


----------



## chronoxiong

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

Anywhere from 2.6 to 3.2 million viewers. Its a Friday night guys. Not everyone is going to sit their ass at home watching a wrestling show and then going out after 10pm to get drunk or whatever.


----------



## Dat dude Savage

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

2.5


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

2,999,999


----------



## Not Lying

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*



chronoxiong said:


> Anywhere from 2.6 to 3.2 million viewers. Its a Friday night guys. Not everyone is going to sit their ass at home watching a wrestling show and then going out after 10pm to get drunk or whatever.


Friday night SD should start to implement some little tricks and habits to make people play drinking games on Friday. Let them pre-drink to their show before going out :lol


----------



## Prosper

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

Hopefully under 2 million. Then we will REALLY get change. Realistically though, probably around 2.9 - 3 million due to the initial buzz and all the legends. Week 2 will probably drop to 2.5 - 2.6.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*



Kratosx23 said:


> And of course, you're basing this on their absolutely sterling track record of both ratings and critical success in recent years.....


I base it on the fact that for a majority of the year WWE has been putting out some real entertaining TV this year and a move to a new station with new ideas could really improve the ratings. I think they can do it. If they prove me wrong then I'll have no problem admitting it. But I think this new start will be really good.


----------



## CM Buck

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

It will simultaneously fail to meet yet exceed expectations


----------



## ImSumukh

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

4.1 m I bet!


----------



## TD Stinger

*Re: Predict the rating of the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox*

I'll say 2.8



prosperwithdeen said:


> *Hopefully under 2 million. Then we will REALLY get change.* Realistically though, probably around 2.9 - 3 million due to the initial buzz and all the legends. Week 2 will probably drop to 2.5 - 2.6.


If by change you mean a longer Brock title reign and more Shane McMahon, regardless if he wins or loses next Friday, then sure.


----------



## JBLGOAT

The hype show on Fox did 1.39 million viewers so SDL will get at least that.


----------



## llj

Realistically, they should do 3 million or better. Anything less than that has to be considered a massive disappointment though. With the number of households Fox is on, they really shouldn't be doing below 3 million.


----------



## KINGROSS

llj said:


> Realistically, they should do 3 million or better. Anything less than that has to be considered a massive disappointment though. With the number of households Fox is on, they really shouldn't be doing below 3 million.


Couldn’t agree more. For the first week it has to be over the 3m mark then after a month it will even out to 2.5. But the first show has been hyped up, I don’t think the legends draw anymore but Brocks first TV match in 15 years should get an extra 100k surely


----------



## Moho Hwoarang

*SmackDown's Greatest Hits got over 1 million views on Fox*










This gives hope that Smackdown will get really high views if a show that just Fox used to hype the show get these many views,imagine what the show itself will get.

I can't post the picture for some reason so here is the source

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articl...6TFGFqmOtBQEo8yR8ET48BlsFO6vaa-vRx7X6L-xcrVJE


----------



## Hangman

*Re: Smackdown's Greatest Hits got over 1 million views on Fox*

Yeah that was the greatest hits.

Imagine what the rating are going to look like for this sophisticated, top draw entertainment they are producing now! 

:heston


----------



## llj

*Re: Smackdown's Greatest Hits got over 1 million views on Fox*

SquaredCircle's WWE dick suckers are humping these numbers as if it's a great success.

It's neither bad nor good. It's a meh number.


----------

