# The Orange Cassidy vs Chris Jericho Debate Delivered



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291187335648796672
*They made us laugh, Orange Cassidy got serious and cut his first real promo, and most importantly, they sold the match. Bischoff as moderator was the icing on the cake. 10/10 segment, especially the bit about rising sea levels.


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291191327116398592*


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## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

I mean, they blatantly jacked the sea level stuff from the movie Old School.


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## Alright_Mate (Jul 21, 2014)

In all honesty it’s the type of segment that will split opinions, as I said on tonight’s AEW thread it was very much a love/hate type segment.

They did put a lot of effort into it though, especially from a character perspective. Jericho completely shat all over Cassidy’s character.

Yet for the first time, pretty unexpectedly, we not only hear Cassidy talk, he gave a very serious answer and pretty much sold the match there and then.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Good to see Easy E, but I really hope we can all put this behind us after next week.


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## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291187335648796672
> *They made us laugh, Orange Cassidy got serious and cut his first real promo, and most importantly, they sold the match. Bischoff as moderator was the icing on the cake. 10/10 segment, especially the bit about rising sea levels.
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291191327116398592*


Hahahahahahaha 10/10 segment. That's rich

Only an AEW corporate cheerleader would think that a monotone, generic promo coming from a guy who looks like a comic book salesmen is a 10/10 segment. All it delivered was a boring ass promo and Jericho saying "What!" with a little corny line from Bischoff. Whether you're seriously or not....you people who support this crap need to go.


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## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

Didn't sell me on the match at all.

Ordinary and underwhelmingly-delivered promo from a guy that still comes across like a complete geek on TV. I understand that they're trying to make him more interesting than his joke of a gimmick, but it already jumped the shark the night that he punched Jericho like a girl a few weeks ago...

It's basically the Gillberg of 2020. Amusing for a minute, but can't be taken seriously in a featured feud


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Yeah it was pretty good. I enjoyed it for what it was. Hearing OC speak was a good moment. As I have said like 20 times tonight though, it REALLLYYYYY needed an audience.

I wouldn't say 10/10 though, 7.5-8/10 is fair.


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## SZilla25 (Sep 1, 2016)

I thought it was great.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

TheDraw said:


> Hahahahahahaha 10/10 segment. That's rich
> 
> Only an AEW corporate cheerleader would think that a monotone, generic promo coming from a guy who looks like a comic book salesmen is a 10/10 segment. All it delivered was a boring ass promo and Jericho saying "What!" with a little corny line from Bischoff. Whether you're seriously or not....you people who support this crap need to go.


*That's funny. You obviously don't know me. I call AEW on their bullshit weekly, especially when it comes to the women's division. I get it, you don't like Orange Cassidy and never will. Well I do. I genuinely loved the segment and think it did it's job. You don't have to agree. That's the beauty of opinions.*


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## MoxAsylum (Jan 9, 2020)

You AEW marks are hilarious. You thought that was good? If the WWE did that you would crap all over it. Moxley is the only person keeping me watching this train wreck. If he ever leaves again I’m out.


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## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

It was amazing. This feud has so much momentum behind it!

Orange Cassidy is going to be a MEGASTAR


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## MoxAsylum (Jan 9, 2020)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> It was amazing. This feud has so much momentum behind it!
> 
> Orange Cassidy is going to be a MEGASTAR


Megastar? Please lay off the drugs


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## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Yeah it was pretty good. I enjoyed it for what it was. Hearing OC speak was a good moment. As I have said like 20 times tonight though, it REALLLYYYYY needed an audience.
> 
> I wouldn't say 10/10 though, 7.5-8/10 is fair.


It does take away a lot of the aura out of everything. There has been so many "pop-worthy", or "crowd goes crazy" moments over the past 5 months, that we'll never see what could have been, nor ever get back. I don't know if it was just me, but I thought the pumped in "crowd noise" was really loud tonight. When the show is live, it's very subtle, but still there.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Garty said:


> It does take away a lot of the aura out of everything. There has been so many "pop-worthy", or "crowd goes crazy" moments over the past 5 months, that we'll never see what could have been, nor ever get back. I don't know if it was just me, but I thought the pumped in "crowd noise" was really loud tonight. When the show is live, it's very subtle, but still there.


Yeah, even Eric Bischoff coming out would have gotten a huge pop. Doesn't look like we are getting crowds back here in the States until Summer 2021 at the earliest, which is a shame.


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## deadcool (May 4, 2006)

It was a great segment overall.

Orange Cassidy is a future star for sure. He held his own in the promo department against Jericho.


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Is there anything AEW fans don't like?


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## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

Yall must be easily impressed. If this shit was on WWE tv it wouldve been panned like it should be


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## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

It came off pretty well. I'm actually surprised they aren't saving the match for All Out.


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## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

La Parka said:


> Is there anything AEW fans don't like?


Probably your avatar.


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## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> It was amazing. This feud has so much momentum behind it!
> 
> Orange Cassidy is going to be a MEGASTAR



Stop trolling. 

Jericho is a moron for debasing himself like this too.


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## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

La Parka said:


> Is there anything AEW fans don't like?



...Doesnt seem like it.


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## MoxAsylum (Jan 9, 2020)

RainmakerV2 said:


> ...Doesnt seem like it.


Nah they defend everything cause they are brainwashed


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## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

MoxAsylum said:


> Nah they defend everything cause they are brainwashed


There are people actually calling this a star making promo lmao. He recited some lines about global warming then stumbled over himself on a simple "im gonna beat you next week" promo. Fucking ridiculous.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

I just love how Eric Bischoff is suddenly beloved when for the past 20 years it's been "LULZ HAD 1 GOOD IDEA IN 1996 HE SUX" from the internet wrestling community. Even this very board all took gigantic shits on him a few months back.

Turns up on one AEW episode and now suddenly he's awesome. Never change.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

RainmakerV2 said:


> There are people actually calling this a star making promo lmao. He recited some lines about global warming then stumbled over himself on a simple "im gonna beat you next week" promo. Fucking ridiculous.


Imagine thinking that having someone speak for the first time and talking like a geek, while looking like a geek makes a star.

To be fair, we should compare it to the other time in wrestling history a silent character spoke. Sting breaking his silence to tell JJ Dillion he had no guts, then telling Hollywood Hogan he was a dead man. The beginning to the payoff to a story built over a year. By two actual stars. We have fallen so far, it really is sad.


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## KingofKings1524 (Aug 27, 2007)

Wow, this section really has devolved into the same 5 posters bitching and crying about everything AEW does. It must be wearing on you guys watching something you actively dislike so much and then posting essays about it after the fact. Sounds pretty productive to me.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I just love how Eric Bischoff is suddenly beloved when for the past 20 years it's been "LULZ HAD 1 GOOD IDEA IN 1996 HE SUX" from the internet wrestling community. Even this very board all took gigantic shits on him a few months back.
> 
> Turns up on one AEW episode and now suddenly he's awesome. Never change.


WWE was showing how sad it had become for hiring him last October they said. Now they are smart. The math being used here is very questionable.


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## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

TripleG said:


> It came off pretty well. I'm actually surprised they aren't saving the match for All Out.


Because both Cassidy and the Demo God, are ratings winners maaaaaannnnnn. Last time they fought, I was certain Cassidy would win. This second match, I'm still picking Cassidy. There's got be a third and deciding match, but held for a PPV, somewhere down the line.

Speaking of Jericho, tonight's entrance bio graphic layover, across the top of it, I think it said, "A Demo God and Le Champion Winning The Ratings War" Can someone can get a screen grab of it? Thanks.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

KingofKings1524 said:


> Wow, this section really has devolved into the same 5 posters bitching and crying about everything AEW does. It must be wearing on you guys watching something you actively dislike so much and then posting essays about it after the fact. Sounds pretty productive to me.


When you see something doing 75-80% good things and then throwing in the dumbest stuff you can imagine, what would you do? Stop watching entirely or try to make them do less dumb stuff?


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Garty said:


> Because both Cassidy and the Demo God, are ratings winners maaaaaannnnnn. Last time they fought, I was certain Cassidy would win. This second match, I'm still picking Cassidy. There's got be a third and deciding match, but held for a PPV, somewhere down the line.
> 
> Speaking of Jericho, tonight's entrance bio graphic layover, across the top of it, I think it said, "A Demo God and Le Champion Winning The Ratings War" Can someone can get a screen grab of it? Thanks.


You mean the two people who were in the lowest rated segment in AEW history?


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

KingofKings1524 said:


> Wow, this section really has devolved into the same 5 posters bitching and crying about everything AEW does. It must be wearing on you guys watching something you actively dislike so much and then posting essays about it after the fact. Sounds pretty productive to me.


I watch highlights now. Used to watch live every week.

I'm sure you will twist this as being a good thing but it is not.


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## KingofKings1524 (Aug 27, 2007)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I watch highlights now. Used to watch live every week.
> 
> I'm sure you will twist this as being a good thing but it is not.


But will we still get your 40-50 post a week average in this section with most of them being short story length? If not, then please start watching again.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

KingofKings1524 said:


> But will we still get your 40-50 post a week average in this section with most of them being short story length? If not, then please start watching again.


Should people who like 75-80% of something just stop watching because of the dumb stuff they do? Life is not black and white. We can call stuff they do dumb, but still like most of it. How hard is this? Do you like everything all your favorite shows do?


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## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Should people who like 75-80% of something just stop watching because of the dumb stuff they do? Life is not black and white. We can call stuff they do dumb, but still like most of it. How hard is this? Do you like everything all your favorite shows do?


Thing Is though the majority of your posts are about the 25% of what you dont like and generally its a total over reaction.I doubt people would feel the way they do if you generally went so negative.Because the way you come off Is you only like 25% of the show lol.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Thing Is though the majority of your posts are about the 25% of what you dont like and generally its a total over reaction.I doubt people would feel the way they do if you generally went so negative.Because the way you come off Is you only like 25% of the show lol.


Can you please do something to address your amazing lack of grammar? It hurts. But maybe you like hurting people like the OC segments.

I comment all the time to say how I enjoy their good stuff. I try (though, I admit not every week) to give a summary to lay out the good and bad. The dumb stuff is going to warrant more words, that is true. When I see something awesome, I might make a comment of "oh wow, that was great" but when something sucks it usually takes more words to explain it. When I see a post talk about something I like, I try to throw my two cents in. I rarely make my own topics though. I generally feel that to be unnecessary. The nature of business though is your best stuff and your worst stuff is what defines you. We forget most of the actual matches of the attitude era. We remember the best stuff and the worst stuff. So shall it be here. Any good business should cut their worst 10% of performing things. I get they had to rearrange things due to COVID, but they need to do it soon.


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## ECFuckinW (Jun 29, 2020)

Great episode and next week looks killer too!!!


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

KingofKings1524 said:


> But will we still get your 40-50 post a week average in this section with most of them being short story length? If not, then please start watching again.


40-50 only? I'd say I average probably 100+. But yes, I will keep posting regardless because I am passionate. In regards to "short story length" posts I could just not explain myself but then I'd be accused of just being a blind hater.


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## Jokerface17 (Feb 22, 2016)

Don’t really give a shit who liked it or not. I’m not high on OC but you’re lying to yourself if you say his was promo wasn’t better than the majority of the scripted “I’m going to kick your butt” WWE promos.
I’m over this feud but Jericho is clearly trying to get some guys over while he still can and I’m infinitely more interested in this than Adam Cole vs Pat Mcafee.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Jokerface17 said:


> Don’t really give a shit who liked it or not. I’m not high on OC but you’re lying to yourself if you say his was promo wasn’t better than the majority of the scripted “I’m going to kick your butt” WWE promos.
> I’m over this feud but Jericho is clearly trying to get some guys over while he still can and I’m infinitely more interested in this than Adam Cole vs Pat Mcafee.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"At least we're not WWE!" 

should be AEW's tagline at this point.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Jokerface17 said:


> Don’t really give a shit who liked it or not. I’m not high on OC but you’re lying to yourself if you say his was promo wasn’t better than the majority of the scripted “I’m going to kick your butt” WWE promos.
> I’m over this feud but Jericho is clearly trying to get some guys over while he still can and I’m infinitely more interested in this than Adam Cole vs Pat Mcafee.


The guy who never spoke managed to utter words. We are truly at the bottom of the barrel now. This was one of the most WWE segments they have ever done. You think OC spoke those emotionless words off the top of his head or he was reading from a well prepared script? This was WWE-Lite.


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## Darren Criss (Jul 23, 2015)

Jericho is always good but Cassidy impressed me


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I just love how Eric Bischoff is suddenly beloved when for the past 20 years it's been "LULZ HAD 1 GOOD IDEA IN 1996 HE SUX" from the internet wrestling community. Even this very board all took gigantic shits on him a few months back.
> 
> Turns up on one AEW episode and now suddenly he's awesome. Never change.


*Bischoff heavily contributed to putting WCW and TNA 6 ft under. He's still an entertaining on air personality. Two things can be true without being contradictory.*


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## Victor86 (Jan 7, 2020)

This is the first time I see Orange talk and honestly he looks and talks like your typlical Silicon Valley millennial tech guy giving presentation . Also looks like your typical tech/ sales guy aka “young professional” .

Problem with that is he isn’t a silicon valley tech guy , he is supposed to be a tough Wrestler which he doesn’t look like at all.

Orange with this type of presentation should quit wrestling and apply for a job interview with Elon musk or something like that as he looks and talks like one of those guys lmao.

Leave wrestling to the wrestlers


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## JeSeGaN (Jun 5, 2018)

There are actually people here that think this was a star-making performance...

Whatever it is you're smokin', it must be good.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

It was OK, I guess. It did what it needed to accomplish, OC showing some fire and telling Jericho that if he lose, he'll be the joke cause some don't consider OC a wrestler.

That being said it still was pretty much a comedy angle. So whether Jericho or OC win next week, it won't change my opinion on either of them.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

It wasn't aids or Corona level bad. Compared to the 12 man it was jericho mjf promo battle good


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*There are people actually mad that Jericho didn't bury OC and this wasn't one sided. If any of you "Jericho fans" knew anything about him, his main philosophy has always been that you gain nothing out of belittling your opponent because if you lose, you look like a jackass, and if you win, you beat a loser, so no one will care.*


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Was great

loved it (not surprisingly)


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## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *That's funny. You obviously don't know me. I call AEW on their bullshit weekly, especially when it comes to the women's division. I get it, you don't like Orange Cassidy and never will. Well I do. I genuinely loved the segment and think it did it's job. You don't have to agree. That's the beauty of opinions.*


He doesnt like aew period, he's a tna mark


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## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

I wasn't looking forward to it going into the show, but it ended up being very entertaining.

Bischoff was great in his small role. Jericho knocked it out of the park as the angry old man wrestler. And they picked their spots with Cassidy between being funny about sea levels and for the first time ever really showing some fire as a babyface.

So all in all, this worked very well.


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## Hermann (Jul 28, 2020)

It was better than expected. I liked that Jericho toned it down a bit with the yelling and screeching he's done lately. Very good look, too. 
Hearing OC talk made me smile, but I agree with those who say that this segment really suffered from the lack of a crowd. 
I was entertained, but in the end it was nothing to write home about.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

It was so hit and miss for me. 

It’s going to likely knock it out of the park in the ratings, because Bischoff on TNT for the first time in 2 decades is money. #thumbsup

Bischoff was awesome as expected and delivered the questions and reacted to the answers in a convincing, believable way. #thumbsup

Jericho delivered the same, tired promo that he has now said about Cassidy on at least THREE occasions. Buy a Thesaurus and at least use some different words. The fact that Orange Cassidy is involved in the second biggest story on the program is a major fucking problem. #thumbsdown

Orange Cassidy’s answer about sea level’s was great. I know it is stupid, but it was funny for me at least as it caught the audience off guard so very much. That’s good, even if dumb, comedy that didn’t go overboard. #thumbsup

Cassidy, however, can not convey anger in his promo very well at all. That was cringe-worthy. #thumbsdown

The post debate beatdown was dumb as Cassidy should have been broken in half by Hager and Jericho. #thumbsdowb



Like I said, it was hit and miss.


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## Christopher Near (Jan 16, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I just love how Eric Bischoff is suddenly beloved when for the past 20 years it's been "LULZ HAD 1 GOOD IDEA IN 1996 HE SUX" from the internet wrestling community. Even this very board all took gigantic shits on him a few months back.
> 
> Turns up on one AEW episode and now suddenly he's awesome. Never change.


I remember when goldberg and orton were speculated to come to aew and when it was confirmed false all of a sudden they suck and no one cares


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> It was amazing. This feud has so much momentum behind it!
> 
> Orange Cassidy is going to be a MEGASTAR


Just out of curiosity, how do the AEW fans who are able to say negative things (Prosper and... that actually might be it) take posts like this?


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## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

Victor86 said:


> This is the first time I see Orange talk and honestly he looks and talks like your typlical Silicon Valley millennial tech guy giving presentation . Also looks like your typical guy tech/ sales guy aka “young professional” .
> 
> Problem with that is he isn’t a siicob valley tech guy , he is supposed to be a tough Wrestler which he doesn’t look like at all.
> 
> ...



He's basically Geoff Keighley with sunglasses and less enthusiasm


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## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

MoxAsylum said:


> You AEW marks are hilarious. You thought that was good? If the WWE did that you would crap all over it. Moxley is the only person keeping me watching this train wreck. If he ever leaves again I’m out.


Just leave now!


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

MoxAsylum said:


> You AEW marks are hilarious. You thought that was good? If the WWE did that you would crap all over it. Moxley is the only person keeping me watching this train wreck. If he ever leaves again I’m out.


Stop baiting others


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

The O.C reply for climate change was funny, Jericho was dying the burst out laughing.


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## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

Christopher Near said:


> I remember when goldberg and orton were speculated to come to aew and when it was confirmed false all of a sudden they suck and no one cares


Goldberg sucks. There's no all of sudden about it.


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Goldberg is the reason why bray isn't champ, one reason, money.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Oddly I thought Jericho's comedy bits were not hitting but I loved OC's fire


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## Jman55 (Nov 21, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> Just out of curiosity, how do the AEW fans who are able to say negative things (Prosper and... that actually might be it) take posts like this?


They're just the positive equivalent to the people who are complained about for being too negative. I actually liked the debate and thought it was decent but this level of sheer hyperbole you are pointing out is indeed ridiculous and just as annoying for me to read as the overly negative (especially cause it causes them to have justification in their generalising of the AEW fans just like the bit too defensive generalise the "haters" too much generalising on both sides)


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## Christopher Near (Jan 16, 2019)

Blaze2k2 said:


> Goldberg sucks. There's no all of sudden about it.


When he was speculated to come to aew a year ago people were excited that he would boost ratings


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## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> Just out of curiosity, how do the AEW fans who are able to say negative things (Prosper and... that actually might be it) take posts like this?


So a post praising an AEW wrestler on a AEW thread on a wrestling forum under the AEW section makes you curious?


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## Jokerface17 (Feb 22, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> The guy who never spoke managed to utter words. We are truly at the bottom of the barrel now. This was one of the most WWE segments they have ever done. You think OC spoke those emotionless words off the top of his head or he was reading from a well prepared script? This was WWE-Lite.


I didn’t say that he was a great promo guy all of a sudden. I more or less meant that even if AEW are writing 99% of their guys promos, then they’re giving guys the right stuff to fit to their character and their strengths.

And after 20 years of no real competition , everything is going to be WWE-Lite. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Hermann said:


> It was better than expected. I liked that Jericho toned it down a bit with the yelling and screeching he's done lately. Very good look, too.
> Hearing OC talk made me smile, but I agree with those who say that this segment really suffered from the lack of a crowd.
> I was entertained, but in the end it was nothing to write home about.


This would sum up my thoughts, had a negative perception of the idea when they announced it but found it entertaining enough to watch through it all and would note Eric played his role in it well as could be without hogging any of the spotlight for himself.

I dont understand why so many negative dwelling posters on here get so annoyed by people enjoying something, each to their own, they a far better than the fans that stink up the place with negativity.


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## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Christopher Near said:


> I remember when goldberg and orton were speculated to come to aew and when it was confirmed false all of a sudden they suck and no one cares


Can you show hundreds of examples as evidence of this seeing as your making it sound like everyone was doing it?


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## Christopher Near (Jan 16, 2019)

Dizzie said:


> Can you show hundreds of examples as evidence of this seeing as your making it sound like everyone was doing it?











Bill Goldberg to AEW?


According to wrestletalk, Bill Goldberg's last date with WWE as WM36. linky link "Our sources have told us that reason WWE opted to have Braun win the title on Saturday night is because Goldberg’s final WWE appearance and match of 2020 was set to be at WrestleMania, and the Hall of Famer had...




www.wrestlingforum.com


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

La Parka said:


> "At least we're not WWE!"
> 
> should be AEW's tagline at this point.


And that is honestly enough, for now atleast. WWE is downright embarrassing to watch. And its not like its this year, WWE has been shit for over a decade now with some good parts here and there. I watched Raw this week after months of not watching and it made me realize AEW is heads and shoulders better than it. 

If people enjoy AEW for not being lazy and shitty like WWE, I dont see a problem with it. Same as some people enjoy WWE... good for them. I dont have a problem with that at all. They can like it for being "Atleast its not AEW".


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

LongPig666 said:


> So a post praising an AEW wrestler on a AEW thread on a wrestling forum under the AEW section makes you curious?


I mean, it's always good to question things. Imagine if a fan of David Starr questioned things. They'd probably realize he's a cunt and stop being his fan. 

Let's not act like calling OC a megastar is just praise though. It's not really painting a picture of exactly what was said, is it David Starr fan?


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Jman55 said:


> They're just the positive equivalent to the people who are complained about for being too negative. I actually liked the debate and thought it was decent but this level of sheer hyperbole you are pointing out is indeed ridiculous and just as annoying for me to read as the overly negative (especially cause it causes them to have justification in their generalising of the AEW fans just like the bit too defensive generalise the "haters" too much generalising on both sides)


The difference is the "Angry Aussies" are sometimes very positive and some of the AEW super fans can not say a bad word about the company. 

I look forward to the day where we can all have an adult conversation about where this company is heading.


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## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> Just out of curiosity, how do the AEW fans who are able to say negative things (Prosper and... that actually might be it) take posts like this?





Jman55 said:


> They're just the positive equivalent to the people who are complained about for being too negative. I actually liked the debate and thought it was decent but this level of sheer hyperbole you are pointing out is indeed ridiculous and just as annoying for me to read as the overly negative (especially cause it causes them to have justification in their generalising of the AEW fans just like the bit too defensive generalise the "haters" too much generalising on both sides)


Oh shut up

God forbid that someone feels a bit of excitement for AEW. Has to be pigeonholed into the hyperbole because we don't make our enjoyment proportional to what YOU think is wrong with the product. Why don't you just stick to how the show makes you feel instead of worrying about how the haters generalize you?

Definition of insecurity right there. "This guy is ridiculous for loving something more than I do OH NO what will the anti-AEW brigade think of me???" Grow a set


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The only good part if the segment was OC admitting he cared about the match, the rest was bad current day Jericho comedy.


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## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

Has anyone got a screen capture of Jericho's entrance, more specifically the layover graphic? I asked last night, but didn't see one today. His "bio" line across the top of the graphic "box" is classic Jericho.


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## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Christopher Near said:


> Bill Goldberg to AEW?
> 
> 
> According to wrestletalk, Bill Goldberg's last date with WWE as WM36. linky link "Our sources have told us that reason WWE opted to have Braun win the title on Saturday night is because Goldberg’s final WWE appearance and match of 2020 was set to be at WrestleMania, and the Hall of Famer had...
> ...


Err, most in that thread were against the idea of goldberg joining aew and it is just two pages and some stating they dont even like aew and should still stay away from him lol.


----------



## Jman55 (Nov 21, 2016)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Oh shut up
> 
> God forbid that someone feels a bit of excitement for AEW. Has to be pigeonholed into the hyperbole because we don't make our enjoyment proportional to what YOU think is wrong with the product. Why don't you just stick to how the show makes you feel instead of worrying about how the haters generalize you?
> 
> Definition of insecurity right there. "This guy is ridiculous for loving something more than I do OH NO what will the anti-AEW brigade think of me???" Grow a set


I mean apologies if you legit think that it's just with so many trolls on both "sides" (So fucking dumb how it always ends up being "haters" vs "sycophants") it's hard to tell and so super praise like that often ends up coming across to me as just positive trolling and the other side of the coin to the assholes being anti AEW and their constant ability to find a flaw in everything. If that isn't you and you genuinely think this continue to it's a good thing to have this much fun with the product but you can't blame me for a bit of skepticism with how this section is these days.

Other than that you misinterpreted my point entirely (which tbf I'm a shit explainer which may have something to do with it) I just hate the constant "haters" vs "superfans" dumbass narrative because it makes discussing the show on here zero fun. I'd easily fall into the "superfans" category myself as I rarely find myself disliking much of a show with a few rare exceptions (the infamous december 18th episode? am bad with dates but people prob know what I mean and this year's fight for the fallen are the only 2 I can think of I honestly didn't have fun with the rest I've either loved or at least enjoy)


----------



## BuckshotLarry (May 29, 2020)

MoxAsylum said:


> You AEW marks are hilarious. You thought that was good? If the WWE did that you would crap all over it. Moxley is the only person keeping me watching this train wreck. If he ever leaves again I’m out.


Don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out.

The debate was executed perfectly in my *opinion*


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

I bet if I asked this:

*What was so good about this segment and what makes people think that Orange Cassidy could possibly become a star because of it?*

I would get no response. Most of the people on here praising this shit are doing so because their is an AEW logo on the screen and they'll say a man shitting in a wrestling ring is awesome if the logo is an AEW one.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I bet if I asked this:
> 
> *What was so good about this segment and what makes people think that Orange Cassidy could possibly become a star because of it?*
> 
> I would get no response. Most of the people on here praising this shit are doing so because their is an AEW logo on the screen and they'll say a man shitting in a wrestling ring is awesome if the logo is an AEW one.


Well, I said it was hit and miss. I don’t think it was as bad as I expected, but it certainly wasn’t a homerun like most are acting. And Orange Cassidy is not a goddamn megastar in the making. Stop that shit now, people!


----------



## BuckshotLarry (May 29, 2020)

Never going to please everybody when someone as polarising as Orange is involved but I think that was executed as well as it could have been. Whether the haters dig it or not, nobody can argue that Orange and Jericho together are money and a live crowd would have loved that segment.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

BuckshotLarry said:


> Never going to please everybody when someone as polarising as Orange is involved but I think that was executed as well as it could have been. Whether the haters dig it or not, nobody can argue that Orange and Jericho together are money and a live crowd would have loved that segment.


Guessing this is a Freudian slip, but yes "Nobody can argue Orange and Jericho together are money." That is for sure. Easy E is going to artificially raise the ratings for a segment that deserved to displace AEW's previously lowest rated segment which not surprisingly featured OC as well.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I bet if I asked this:
> 
> *What was so good about this segment and what makes people think that Orange Cassidy could possibly become a star because of it?*
> 
> I would get no response. Most of the people on here praising this shit are doing so because their is an AEW logo on the screen and they'll say a man shitting in a wrestling ring is awesome if the logo is an AEW one.


Or maybe we just like Orange Cassidy and can see his charisma and IT factor?


----------



## BuckshotLarry (May 29, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> *Guessing this is a Freudian slip*, but yes "Nobody can argue Orange and Jericho together are money." That is for sure. Easy E is going to artificially raise the ratings for a segment that deserved to displace AEW's previously lowest rated segment which not surprisingly featured OC as well.


Very much so sir haha


----------



## BigCy (Nov 10, 2012)

I actually watched the segment all the way through, some of the AEW critics haven't really stated or caught on to the fact that AEW is making fun of many of us with this segment and basically telling many us how they feel. They have Jericho calling OC out for the geek he is but you notice the fake crowd is booing in unison at Jericho telling the truth and in the end they make OC look good and get cheered unanimously. They want to condition people to accept OC as this main event player while insulting the people who call OC out for what he is. 

I was fine with OC as a comedy low card or even occasional mid card guy who wrestles a serious match but falls short against a mid card guy because the stuff he does outside of the ring (not inside the ring with his play kicks) is actually chuckle worthy sometimes (where a backstage brawl opened a door to him in the bathroom) but the minute they tried giving him the Jericho rub I knew they were going to try to give him a main event level push and I almost guarantee he will beat Jericho next week which a few months ago everyone practically admitted that this would be going too far.

I do get that pro wrestling has changed and the demographics have shifted to nerd culture and this is what is "in" apparently now but that's an entirely different subject. 

Back to the segment, Bishoff did a decent job and I enjoyed the beating OC took at then end, it really looked viscious and OC looked legit beat up so props on selling the beatdown I guess, other than that I didn't enjoy it. 3/10 segment.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> You do not want a forum, you want a church.


Poster 1: OC is so great.
Poster 2: lol OC
Poster 3: OC for Prez
Poster 1: OC for champ
Poster 4: I loved the intensity he showed
Poster 5: fuck the OC haters
Poster 2: inserts OC gif

Yeah, some great discussions to be had.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

BigCy said:


> I actually watched the segment all the way through, some of the AEW critics haven't really stated or caught on to the fact that AEW is making fun of many of us with this segment and basically telling many us how they feel. They have Jericho calling OC out for the geek he is but you notice the fake crowd is booing in unison at Jericho telling the truth and in the end they make OC look good and get cheered unanimously. They want to condition people to accept OC as this main event player while insulting the people who call OC out for what he is.
> 
> I was fine with OC as a comedy low card or even occasional mid card guy who wrestles a serious match but falls short against a mid card guy because the stuff he does outside of the ring (not inside the ring with his play kicks) is actually chuckle worthy sometimes (where a backstage brawl opened a door to him in the bathroom) but the minute they tried giving him the Jericho rub I knew they were going to try to give him a main event level push and I almost guarantee he will beat Jericho next week which a few months ago everyone practically admitted that this would be going too far.
> 
> ...


Basically sums up my feelings on everything.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I bet if I asked this:
> 
> *What was so good about this segment and what makes people think that Orange Cassidy could possibly become a star because of it?*
> 
> I would get no response. Most of the people on here praising this shit are doing so because their is an AEW logo on the screen and they'll say a man shitting in a wrestling ring is awesome if the logo is an AEW one.


*I told you what was good about it in the opening post, but I'll gladly elaborate in bullet point format to make it painfully clear for you.*


*It peeled the layers of Orange Cassidy, showing he's more than a comedy gimmick*
*It showed he can cut a good promo when necessary*
*It showed he can be serious when necessary*
*It added stakes to the match (Jericho's ego)*
*For the last year, we've had to hear people bitch about how OC is a troll gimmick with a short shelf life. Now, they're actually showing depth to the character and it's somehow a problem? How Sway? 

They also gave us a reason to get hype for the rematch outside of the screwy finish. Jericho has been talking about what a joke OC is for weeks, and it would be devastating for his ego to lose to someone like OC. People will tune in to see the outcome.*


----------



## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

La Parka said:


> Is there anything AEW fans don't like?


Nope.. Every segment is amazing 10/10 every wrestler is going to be a megastar.. meanwhile each month ratings drop further and further and less and less people watch it.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

NathanMayberry said:


> Nope.. Every segment is amazing 10/10 every wrestler is going to be a megastar.. meanwhile each month ratings drop further and further and less and less people watch it.


April (first full month of pandemic) 696,800 / .26 rating
July (last full month of pandemic) 773,800 / .30 rating


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

NathanMayberry said:


> Nope.. Every segment is amazing 10/10 every wrestler is going to be a megastar.. meanwhile each month ratings drop further and further and less and less people watch it.


*Except they hit an 800 k+ average after Fyter Fest and peaked at a million. Next.*


----------



## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

It is what it is, some people are going to like OC, some people aren't. The people that aren't are NEVER going to like it, but it seems like their are more people that like him that don't.

His first match with Jericho didn't do well, but it was thrusted into the main event position when it wasn't going to be, and they had to force it to go head to head with a double title unification match.

We can't be judging people on the basis of one quarter hour rating or even a months worth of viewership, that's what WWE does, start/stop guys constantly and now they have a barren wasteland of no stars.

They picked OC, don't half ass it, go all the way. You can argue about OC's character and if it should be him in the position, but at a fundamental level, they are doing what needs to be done to get someone to the next level.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

MoxAsylum said:


> Nah they defend everything cause they are brainwashed


You keep saying that you're going to quit watching, then you come back every week like a puppy. Who is actually brainwashed here? 



La Parka said:


> "At least we're not WWE!"
> 
> should be AEW's tagline at this point.


This is the whole goal. And they're doing a damn good job 80%+ of the time. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> I bet if I asked this:
> 
> *What was so good about this segment and what makes people think that Orange Cassidy could possibly become a star because of it?*
> 
> I would get no response. Most of the people on here praising this shit are doing so because their is an AEW logo on the screen and they'll say a man shitting in a wrestling ring is awesome if the logo is an AEW one.


What is your definition of a wrestling star in 2020? 



El Hammerstone said:


> Poster 1: OC is so great.
> Poster 2: lol OC
> Poster 3: OC for Prez
> Poster 1: OC for champ
> ...


There are other negative posters here outside of the Aussies.


----------



## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

TKO Wrestling said:


> April (first full month of pandemic) 696,800 / .26 rating
> July (last full month of pandemic) 773,800 / .30 rating


Its interesting how your calendar goes from April to July.. or how you failed to mention the 3 specials AEW had to put on in July to achieve that rating. 

Let's see how they do in August (the next full month of the pandemic) or does your calendar skip that month too? 

PS what happened between October and November? November and December? December and January? January and February? You know when there wasn't a pandemic?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Or maybe we just like Orange Cassidy and can see his charisma and IT factor?


Okay, I'll bite. What is so charismatic about Orange Cassidy and what gives him the IT factor? Keep in mind the IT factor is usually reserved for the likes of Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold, The Rock, Roddy Piper etc.



Danielallen1410 said:


> hopefully you’ll disappear with the wood. Best news I’ve heard all pandemic is he’s left the forum, just you to go really now.


Oh yeah? You're looking for a forum like this (See below):



El Hammerstone said:


> Poster 1: OC is so great.
> Poster 2: lol OC
> Poster 3: OC for Prez
> Poster 1: OC for champ
> ...


Are you?

You remove the people who are critical and that's all that you have dude. We get it, you hate anyone who is critical of AEW and want them to go away. You should find a forum that enforces a rule about being strictly positive about AEW always. That'd be a hoot. You could rate every episode a 10/10 and shoot anyone down 15 on 1 if they're negative.



BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I told you what was good about it in the opening post, but I'll gladly elaborate in bullet point format to make it painfully clear for you.*
> 
> 
> *It peeled the layers of Orange Cassidy, showing he's more than a comedy gimmick*
> ...


I respect you for rising to the challenge and trying to explain but unfortunately I need to give my view.

- How did it show the layers of Orange Cassidy and that he's more than a comedy character? He stated random facts about climate change that sounded like a 16 year old racing through a speech and then said he wanted to win the match with his hands in his pockets to humiliate Jericho. Is that the part that's showing he's more than a comedy gimmick? The part where he said it'd be embarrassing for Jericho when he loses to a guy with his hands in his pockets? 

- The promo wasn't good. Hulk Hogan cut good promos Orange Cassidy sounded like the cashier at a comic book store. Nobody new is interested in next week because of his promos tonight.

- Again, what part was really serious? He said he's going to take the match seriously and suddenly we're seeing his serious side? Was he not taking the match seriously last month when he was brawling around the arena with Jericho?

- Not really but I guess that's opinion based.

---

It's a problem because Cassidy doesn't have any depth he's not an interesting guy he's just a geeky nerdy guy which is fine but it doesn't make for an interesting wrestling character on television. Nobody cares if Jericho loses we all know he will, Cassidy will be proclaimed a star and then instantly go back down to the midcard again.



prosperwithdeen said:


> What is your definition of a wrestling star in 2020?


- Mainstream appeal (Not an online article but the ability to have someone stop and listen to them on the radio or a TV talk show etc)

- Ability to draw on a large scale (700,000 smarks buying an Orange shirt doesn't count. I'm talking millions)

- A look.

- Charisma


----------



## Passing Triangles (Feb 2, 2015)

Hephaesteus said:


> Yall must be easily impressed. If this shit was on WWE tv it wouldve been panned like it should be


I agree, but at the same time it wouldn't have been on WWE tv. If it was it would be a heck of a lot more scripted and therefore, flat.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

I think aew fans being critical is highly important. We dont fucking want a cooke cutter product cattering to warriors and kids. Wwe is proving that this is not where the market is. It failed them in the early 90s and its happening again. Plus there no reason why young teens cant watch a adult product thats not over the edge. We all did. We know the most important demo is 18 to 50 so they need to present a product for them



MoxAsylum said:


> No? Freedom to do what I want you AEW marks are fickle. Half of the marks come across as liberals. They tell you to shut up and leave because they are right and we are wrong if we don’t agree with their opinions....



Im in here every day and everyone seems fine to debate their opinion. Only time it seemed bad was when the DON ppv was on


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Passing Triangles said:


> I agree, but at the same time it wouldn't have been on WWE tv. If it was it would be a heck of a lot more scripted and therefore, flat.


OC global warming thing was the epitome of scripted though.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I respect you for rising to the challenge and trying to explain but unfortunately I need to give my view.
> 
> - How did it show the layers of Orange Cassidy and that he's more than a comedy character? He stated random facts about climate change that sounded like a 16 year old racing through a speech and then said he wanted to win the match with his hands in his pockets to humiliate Jericho. Is that the part that's showing he's more than a comedy gimmick? The part where he said it'd be embarrassing for Jericho when he loses to a guy with his hands in his pockets?


*The power of the promo was that it directly addressed the critics who said exactly that: he's a comedy gimmick that does dives with his hands in his pockets. He showed us he's intelligent, aware of the criticism, and intends to prove Jericho and the doubters wrong. This covered everything OC needed to do in 2 minutes.*



> - The promo wasn't good. Hulk Hogan cut good promos Orange Cassidy sounded like the cashier at a comic book store. Nobody new is interested in next week because of his promos tonight.


*I guarantee you based on the Twitter interactions that plenty of WWE only fans checked out this segment for Bischoff, but will be coming back for Cassidy. That clip is making rounds everywhere.*



> - Again, what part was really serious? He said he's going to take the match seriously and suddenly we're seeing his serious side? Was he not taking the match seriously last month when he was brawling around the arena with Jericho?


*Cassidy generally carries himself in a non-chalant manner. This debate showed how seriously he takes this match and feud. He wants to show Jericho and his critics that he wants to be recognized as a legitimate top guy in AEW instead of a glorified side show.*




> It's a problem because Cassidy doesn't have any depth he's not an interesting guy he's just a geeky nerdy guy which is fine but it doesn't make for an interesting wrestling character on television. Nobody cares if Jericho loses we all know he will, Cassidy will be proclaimed a star and go back to the midcard shortly after.


*That remains to be seen.*


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> - Mainstream appeal (Not an online article but the ability to have someone stop and listen to them on the radio or a TV talk show etc)
> 
> - Ability to draw on a large scale (700,000 smarks buying an Orange shirt doesn't count. I'm talking millions)
> 
> ...


See, this is part of the problem. Wrestling fans are defining stars in 2020 like they defined them back in the golden days of wrestling. The definition of a star in 2020 is different from back then. No one can have mainstream appeal because wrestling is no longer mainstream or widely popular. John Cena was mainstream because the company put everything into him to the detriment of the rest of their roster. He was the only one that mattered and was the face of every PR campaign. Becky was beginning to be mainstream because she was at the right place, right time and rode that wave to becoming the top star, which led to her getting a Marvel role and a guest appearance on "Billions". A lot of that was luck though seeing as Nia Jax broke her face. Brock Lesnar and Ronda Rousey don't draw and they are the biggest stars the wrestling industry has had for a while. So how can anyone else? WWE talent don't sell merch at that level, but guys like The Fiend and AJ Styles are still considered stars, despite the fact that they don't draw shit either. Wrestling is "dead" for the most part. Its popularity has dwindled significantly. 

Being a star today is being drastically over within the fan base of the wrestling audience that stuck around, which is probably about 5-6 million people total in the U.S. if I were to guess. And yes having charisma and a good look is imperative for the most part, so I agree there. If you're beloved in the niche of wrestling, which is what it is now, then you're the new definition of a star. If you're waiting for the next Hogan or Ric Flair to come along and be a star based off the old definition, you'll be waiting forever sorry to tell ya. It doesn't live up to the true definition of being a star that we grew up on, but that is where we are now. OC is over, but I wouldn't say that he is even a star at the level that I have described yet.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I bet if I asked this:
> 
> *What was so good about this segment and what makes people think that Orange Cassidy could possibly become a star because of it?*
> 
> I would get no response. Most of the people on here praising this shit are doing so because their is an AEW logo on the screen and they'll say a man shitting in a wrestling ring is awesome if the logo is an AEW one.



What I enjoyed

Bischoff played his role perfectly he didn't outshine the men involved and it was great nostalgia seeing him on TNT so many years later.

Jericho is great on the mic and I read something he said after the MJF promo,saying he was good but that Jericho was still the best on the mic.I knew he was going to try hard to showcase his mic work and he didn't let me down. He comedically but viciously tore OC up in a smug manner,but once OC started talking and surprised him he switched up and just delivered a good ol Jericho promo I liked it.

OC finally speaking lol.I knew after the wierd global warming question he'd answer it but I thought he'd ignore the rest of the questions. When he interrupted Jericho and talked with some passion it really got me into it.If you've followed OC you know he never cares or tries,but he sorta cared against pack put on a banger then sorta cared about the original Jericho match and that match was good too.So now to see him talk and admit he fully cares about the match and even told Jericho he'd embarrass him I'm fully pumped for next weeks match.

I liked how jericho and Hager put OC out,Hager stuffing his hands in his pockets then Jericho hits the Judas effect knocking him unconscious it looked good and OC sold it well.



What I didnt like

I'm not a fan of all the political themed stuff they're doing lately be it MJF or this segment it doesn't do alot for me I hope they ditch this stuff soon.


----------



## MrMeeseeks (Aug 6, 2020)

the amount of salt from the wwe marks here is hilarious


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I told you what was good about it in the opening post, but I'll gladly elaborate in bullet point format to make it painfully clear for you.*
> 
> 
> *It peeled the layers of Orange Cassidy, showing he's more than a comedy gimmick*
> ...


this shit is spot-on

why are people wilfully ignoring the story being told? Your bullet points explain it beautifully


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

MrMeeseeks said:


> the amount of salt from the wwe marks here is hilarious


What makes you think they're WWE marks?


----------



## MrMeeseeks (Aug 6, 2020)

El Hammerstone said:


> What makes you think they're WWE marks?


forum browsing mostly been here about a weekish finally made an account


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

El Hammerstone said:


> What makes you think they're WWE marks?


If anything, I would have expected for true WWE marks to love it since the whole OC character seems like something Vince would think up while on the can.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

MrMeeseeks said:


> forum browsing mostly been here about a weekish finally made an account


Well, many of the negative comments in this thread are from people who hate the product the WWE has put out (myself included), and gravitated to AEW on day one in hopes of a strong alternative; I myself took a 7-8 year break from wrestling due mainly to what the WWE was putting out.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

El Hammerstone said:


> Well, many of the negative comments in this thread are from people who hate the product the WWE has put out (myself included), and gravitated to AEW on day one in hopes of a strong alternative; I myself took a 7-8 year break from wrestling due mainly to what the WWE was putting out.


I haven't watched WWE weekly since 2006. I bet you I am counted as a WWE mark.


----------



## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

I dont like orange Cassidy gimmick and I doubt I ever will unless I get brain damage but the one benefit of the doubt that I would give him is that he creates a talking point and stirs a love/hate emotion from wrestling fans which is better than being completely indifferent to him from his stand point.


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

MrMeeseeks said:


> the amount of salt from the wwe marks here is hilarious



Why does not liking stupid AEW shit make you a WWE mark? One does not automatically equal the other and its an argument/insult people with tiny brains use.


----------



## rexmundi (Apr 1, 2012)

The segment was well received . Jericho was excellence, Bischoff and OC were great in their roles too. Fun to watch and it apparently drew well. Bischoff popping a rating in 2020 on TNT, Good to see.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

NathanMayberry said:


> Nope.. Every segment is amazing 10/10 every wrestler is going to be a megastar.. meanwhile each month ratings drop further and further and less and less people watch it.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291464538282287104
*"Orange Cassidy won't move the needle. Ratings are decreasing each month."








*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291464538282287104
> *"Orange Cassidy won't move the needle. Ratings are decreasing each month."
> 
> 
> ...


they don’t know, they don’t see

for all the ‘futurists’ on here, i find their prediction skills lacking


----------



## yeahbaby! (Jan 27, 2014)

Yeah I didn't mind it, as far as these things go. Bischoff didn't really do much but I guess the for the name factor it paid off.

Jericho can't do any wrong on the mic and did his job very well; OC's lightning fast response to the global warming thing was well done and I'm impressed he didn't trip over himself considering how fast he went. Overall a good segment and did the job well to set up the match next week with the added beatdown at the end which was done perfectly. I can't imagine Jericho winning again, he'll bend over backwards to make OC like a seasoned pro does.

I hate OC but I didn't here so there's that!

What AEW has done quite well a few times is announce and build to matches the next week, some of which make you want to tune in to see. Again, I hate OC and I don't want to see him in the ring, but I am interested in how the angle plays out. So this story has done it's job.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291464538282287104
> *"Orange Cassidy won't move the needle. Ratings are decreasing each month."
> 
> 
> ...


So many in denial about AEW having momentum. People are clearly interested in the product


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Oh shut up
> 
> God forbid that someone feels a bit of excitement for AEW. Has to be pigeonholed into the hyperbole because we don't make our enjoyment proportional to what YOU think is wrong with the product. Why don't you just stick to how the show makes you feel instead of worrying about how the haters generalize you?
> 
> Definition of insecurity right there. "This guy is ridiculous for loving something more than I do OH NO what will the anti-AEW brigade think of me???" Grow a set


Just because it's your opinion doesn't make it correct. OC is great, I've admitted to being a huge fan of his and I think he has potential to be a star but having watched that part of AEW yesterday I don't think it was enough to conclude that he is going to be a megastar. That, coupled with the rest of your posting history shows that you're either a troll or just have no idea whatsoever. To say he's going to be a megastar is 100% hyperbole. Nothing insecure about it at all.


----------



## BigCy (Nov 10, 2012)

prosperwithdeen said:


> See, this is part of the problem. Wrestling fans are defining stars in 2020 like they defined them back in the golden days of wrestling. The definition of a star in 2020 is different from back then. No one can have mainstream appeal because wrestling is no longer mainstream or widely popular. John Cena was mainstream because the company put everything into him to the detriment of the rest of their roster. He was the only one that mattered and was the face of every PR campaign. Becky was beginning to be mainstream because she was at the right place, right time and rode that wave to becoming the top star, which led to her getting a Marvel role and a guest appearance on "Billions". A lot of that was luck though seeing as Nia Jax broke her face. Brock Lesnar and Ronda Rousey don't draw and they are the biggest stars the wrestling industry has had for a while. So how can anyone else? WWE talent don't sell merch at that level, but guys like The Fiend and AJ Styles are still considered stars, despite the fact that they don't draw shit either. Wrestling is "dead" for the most part. Its popularity has dwindled significantly.
> 
> Being a star today is being drastically over within the fan base of the wrestling audience that stuck around, which is probably about 5-6 million people total in the U.S. if I were to guess. And yes having charisma and a good look is imperative for the most part, so I agree there. If you're beloved in the niche of wrestling, which is what it is now, then you're the new definition of a star. If you're waiting for the next Hogan or Ric Flair to come along and be a star based off the old definition, you'll be waiting forever sorry to tell ya. It doesn't live up to the true definition of being a star that we grew up on, but that is where we are now. OC is over, but I wouldn't say that he is even a star at the level that I have described yet.


This is a very sober outlook on the situation and you brought up some good points but what I think what some of us don't agree with is the underlying question of WHY can't wrestling be mainstream again? I think most of us on both sides of the fence or those of us sitting on the fence with a few exceptions I'm sure would enjoy pro wrestling being mainstream and having stars where the industry can thrive instead of just a niche product that caters to about 1/5th of the people it use to. 

I know that delves into a completely different topic but I know some of the Aussies and myself WANT wrestling and AEW to be big again so we want stars and household names in wrestling which is why I think some of us get frustrated with the current landscape. I can't speak for everyone but that's kind of the impression I get. It's kind of defeatist to just throw our arms up and say "well wrestling isn't cool anymore so who really cares what we do or what happens on TV," instead I want to look at the bigger picture and envision ways to get wrestling on the up again. 



$Dolladrew$ said:


> What I enjoyed
> 
> *Bischoff played his role perfectly he didn't outshine the men involved and it was great nostalgia seeing him on TNT so many years later.*
> 
> ...


I'm glad you enjoyed it, I definitely agree with the bold. That beating was awesome looking not going to lie. 



El Hammerstone said:


> Well, many of the negative comments in this thread are from people who hate the product the WWE has put out (myself included), and gravitated to AEW on day one in hopes of a strong alternative; I myself took a 7-8 year break from wrestling due mainly to what the WWE was putting out.


This is me almost 100%. I lost all love and hope with wrestling from around 2004-2015/2016 until I discovered New Japan and Wrestle Kingdom 9. I had high hopes for pro wrestling in the US with AEW but maybe I expected too much.



Chip Chipperson said:


> I haven't watched WWE weekly since 2006. I bet you I am counted as a WWE mark.


That's always their default argument. I despise the E and most of us AEW critics do too but for some reason we get canned into that category of E drones. I'm more of an Impact fan than AEW, and more of an AEW fan than WWE but that's not saying much. Off topic but are you still watching Impact Chip? I don't think I've seen you on those boards for a couple weeks.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

BigCy said:


> This is a very sober outlook on the situation and you brought up some good points but what I think what some of us don't agree with is the underlying question of WHY can't wrestling be mainstream again? I think most of us on both sides of the fence or those of us sitting on the fence with a few exceptions I'm sure would enjoy pro wrestling being mainstream and having stars where the industry can thrive instead of just a niche product that caters to about 1/5th of the people it use to.
> 
> I know that delves into a completely different topic but I know some of the Aussies and myself WANT wrestling and AEW to be big again so we want stars and household names in wrestling which is why I think some of us get frustrated with the current landscape. I can't speak for everyone but that's kind of the impression I get. It's kind of defeatist to just throw our arms up and say "well wrestling isn't cool anymore so who really cares what we do or what happens on TV," instead I want to look at the bigger picture and envision ways to get wrestling on the up again.


I don't see wrestling ever reaching that mainstream level again. Yeah, it's a defeatist attitude which I don't really like to take, but that's the reality of the situation. You have Cena, The Rock, Becky, Batista, Lesnar, Rousey and now even Reigns getting roles in Hollywood, going on game shows, cross-promoting with UFC, getting their clips shown on ESPN with live interviews to follow, teaming with women's sports in the U.S. for commercial collaborations that push PR stuff, and the mainstream needle hasn't moved. WWE is making more money, but the sport itself is not gaining mainstream popularity. What else can they possibly do? People are noticing but they're not interested, because the stigma of "wrestling is fake" is too ingrained in society at this point. Then you have the UFC constantly reminding people that "this is real fighting and wrestling combined, not that WWE stuff".

Back then people were willing to let it slide because kayfabe was alive and you had bodybuilders who got you excited to see them fight. The talent above that I listed were all over as fu*k. They all have charisma and mic skills on the level of the guys of old or close to it. They just don't yell as much and juice themselves before every promo. That's the only difference. You can't get any more over than that today. But the mainstream audience is not latching on. WWE has PR campaigns out the ass, but nothing has changed. Now given, A LOT of that is because the WWE product sucks hard, but in 2020, it'll be extremely hard to get the general mainstream audience to take wrestling seriously. They know its scripted, kayfabe is dead, and WWE doesn't allow their talent to get too popular out of fear that they will become bigger than the brand. If they had let their talent actually be stars over the last 10-12 years we would probably be having a different conversation. They were literally sitting on Becky Lynch and they had no idea. Now they're talking about giving her a Marvel role. How many more are in the back that could get over at that level if given the chance? But WWE clearly doesn't like it when you get over if it's not within their booking or creative plans. After Batista and Cena in 2005, they completely stopped creating stars. That takes its toll on the audience's perception of the show over the years because there is no buzz around it. Then year after year, it just continues to die off.

AEW doesn't stand a chance to go mainstream right now. At least not yet. They are inserting themselves into an industry that is drastically different than it was before. And I'm sure they know that, so their goal is to just put the best possible show on TV every week, not go mainstream, at least not right away. But the thing is they could put on the best content in the world and draw 3 million cable viewers a week, but at the end of the day, most of those people will end up being people who are already wrestling fans or WWE loyalists that make the jump. The point I'm trying to make is that wrestling is never going to be "so good" that the mainstream audience feels like they HAVE to watch or check it out. Because at the end of the day, its still seen as "fake". And they have been trained to think "PG" when they think of wrestling now. You can thank WWE for that gem too. "Fake PG play fighting" is now what they see. Another issue to consider is the amount of streaming content available now. There is so much content out there that people would rather watch, no matter how good the content AEW or WWE puts out. And it's all on-demand. The options are endless and TV series have never been better in a general sense. It wasn't like that before, you had to sit in front of your TV and wait for the show to come on, or go to Blockbuster. Now you can turn it on with a few clicks of a mouse.

I also want wrestling to be big again. I want AEW to go mainstream and blow WWE out of the water. But how? What can either AEW or WWE possibly do to get society to accept them in the same way they accept Netflix, Disney, Sony, Hollywood, or ESPN at this point? How do you bring kayfabe back to life to people who have seen talent doing non-kayfabe stuff on reality shows on the E Channel and TMZ? The Bella Twins are literally running around exposing the business left and right on national TV. Miraculously getting another Hulk Hogan or Randy Savage won't do the trick.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> Just because it's your opinion doesn't make it correct. OC is great, I've admitted to being a huge fan of his and I think he has potential to be a star but having watched that part of AEW yesterday I don't think it was enough to conclude that he is going to be a megastar. That, coupled with the rest of your posting history shows that you're either a troll or just have no idea whatsoever. To say he's going to be a megastar is 100% hyperbole. Nothing insecure about it at all.


Surprising you'd like Orange Cassidy because 100% of your posts that I see from you has a negative slant on AEW.

So fucking what if I think he'll become a megastar. That's my prediction. He's over he has a great look and he can hang with Jericho on the mic. It's not any more ridiculous than the haters that watch something they hate every week. Dont give me that bullshit excuse of wanting to see it get better. If it hasn't gotten better for you by now then there's no reason for you not to spend your Wednesday nights watching something else in our age of endless media. You're not Dave Meltzer, nobody is paying you guys to watch wrestling and give your opinions on it so why even bother?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Surprising you'd like Orange Cassidy because 100% of your posts that I see from you has a negative slant on AEW.
> 
> So fucking what if I think he'll become a megastar. That's my prediction. He's over he has a great look and he can hang with Jericho on the mic. It's not any more ridiculous than the haters that watch something they hate every week. Dont give me that bullshit excuse of wanting to see it get better. If it hasn't gotten better for you by now then there's no reason for you not to spend your Wednesday nights watching something else in our age of endless media. You're not Dave Meltzer, nobody is paying you guys to watch wrestling and give your opinions on it so why even bother?


Glad you are here to define his opinions for him!

Another PLEASE STOP WATCHING post and black and white thinking.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Glad you are here to define his opinions for him!
> 
> Another PLEASE STOP WATCHING post and black and white thinking.


He started it by trying to shame me for thinking that a wrestler I like will become a huge star


You reap what you sow


----------



## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

Orange Cassidy's quarter was the biggest 18-49 quarter on Dynamite. Watched the show with 3 very new watchers, and they all loved him. 

If next week's show is up in viewership for the rematch, the haters are gonna look dumb as fuck.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291792575507173376


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291792575507173376


*LMAO! I got baited hard.*


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291792575507173376


What an idiot. Notice Chuck Taylor is nowhere to be found in the gym either.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Lheurch said:


> What an idiot. Notice Chuck Taylor is nowhere to be found in the gym either.


like clockwork

OC be getting you super hot @Lheurch


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> like clockwork
> 
> OC be getting you super hot @Lheurch


He is just unfunny and generally useless. Oh, so funny, he does not want to work out! Two digit IQ humor.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> What an idiot. Notice Chuck Taylor is nowhere to be found in the gym either.


Who cares?

Chucky T can go and has no issues lifting guys or selling....not everyone needs to be chizzled.He is a good sized guy and isn't obese or skinny he has an average body which goes with his endearing mama's boy/regular guy persona.


It's so annoying to see him being bagged on like he's fucking Joey janella who not only is getting fatter but skills are regressing.....that's a guy who needs to hit the gym.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Who cares?
> 
> Chucky T can go and has no issues lifting guys or selling....not everyone needs to be chizzled.He is a good sized guy and isn't obese or skinny he has an average body which goes with his endearing mama's boy/regular guy persona.
> 
> ...


They both do. If you are below average in the ring and skinny fat like Chuck, you really should put at least a little effort into bettering yourself. I do not want to see guys in the ring who looked like they walked out of the audience.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> like clockwork
> 
> OC be getting you super hot @Lheurch


OC mark confirmed....guaranteed he's got his OC shirt and glasses on as he posts 🤣


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> They both do. If you are below average in the ring and skinny fat like Chuck, you really should put at least a little effort into bettering yourself. I do not want to see guys in the ring who looked like they walked out of the audience.


Besides being more aesthetically pleasing to you would it really benefit him that much?

Being slightly in better shape wouldn't change his moveset or character work or make him a better worker.He is SUPPOSED to be an everyman mamas boy his average physique works with his character. 

I don't want to see guys like janela who get fatter every week but an average build isn't bad or off putting in the slightest.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Besides being more aesthetically pleasing to you would it really benefit him that much?
> 
> Being slightly in better shape wouldn't change his moveset or character work or make him a better worker.He is SUPPOSED to be an everyman mamas boy his average physique works with his character.
> 
> I don't want to see guys like janela who get fatter every week but an average build isn't bad or off putting in the slightest.


One would hope if someone started putting more effort into being good at one's job that would apply to more than one aspect. Dude is below average in the ring, needs training badly. So yes, maybe actually TRYING would make him a better worker. He has no character. All we know about him character wise is he likes to give his friend big hugs often and drives a minivan. What amazing character depth. I wish people would stop excusing mediocrity. If you have no character and look like you just walked out of a Golden Corral, why would I ever care about you?

I do not want to see guys like Janela at all ever.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> One would hope if someone started putting more effort into being good at one's job that would apply to more than one aspect. Dude is below average in the ring, needs training badly. So yes, maybe actually TRYING would make him a better worker. He has no character. All we know about him character wise is he likes to give his friend big hugs often and drives a minivan. What amazing character depth. I wish people would stop excusing mediocrity. If you have no character and look like you just walked out of a Golden Corral, why would I ever care about you?
> 
> I do not want to see guys like Janela at all ever.


Bfs is a great tag team and Chucky T is not a bad worker I quite like him his finisher is fucking brutal I love it.Now if he's a character you don't like that's fine but he isn't bad at all i can't recall watching a bfs match I didn't like.

Joey janella on the other hand I can agree with.Initially once he joined sonny he actually had a few ok matches but after sonny lost to Cody both have regressed.Joey has gotten fatter and his in ring skills are regressing big time.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Bfs is a great tag team and Chucky T is not a bad worker I quite like him his finisher is fucking brutal I love it.Now if he's a character you don't like that's fine but he isn't bad at all i can't recall watching a bfs match I didn't like.
> 
> Joey janella on the other hand I can agree with.Initially once he joined sonny he actually had a few ok matches but after sonny lost to Cody both have regressed.Joey has gotten fatter and his in ring skills are regressing big time.


Trent is great and should be a singles star.

If Janela's skills are regressing, they must be going into the negative at this point. The best thing about Dynamite for the past month of decent to great shows has been no Jelly.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Trent is great and should be a singles star.
> 
> If Janela's skills are regressing, they must be going into the negative at this point. The best thing about Dynamite for the past month of decent to great shows has been no Jelly.


Dude look at janelas rotund gut In his latest match on DARK.....then if you can manage to watch the match its fucking botch city by Janela.He literally drops poor Peter Avalon right on his head during the finisher......that's why the initiative isn't on DARK this week Avalon likely got a concussion.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Dude look at janelas rotund gut In his latest match on DARK.....then if you can manage to watch the match its fucking botch city by Janela.He literally drops poor Peter Avalon right on his head during the finisher......that's why the initiative isn't on DARK this week Avalon likely got a concussion.


It is almost like I have been saying how horrible and botchy Janela is for over a year on here. That was the one match I skipped on Dark this week. I refuse to watch him in a match ever again. At least I was able to watch the rest of the show.


----------



## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

WWE uses legends of the past to pop ratings... What desperate assholes
AEW does the same... Way to go to get the talent over! 

LOL never change


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Lheurch said:


> He is just unfunny and generally useless. Oh, so funny, he does not want to work out! Two digit IQ humor.


Still draws you for the comments - must be worth something


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Still draws you for the comments - must be worth something


I try to read most threads on here at least somewhat. The things that hurt the show the most for me are obviously going to get attention.

I do like the defending everything they do by so many people on here:

Wednesday: Oh Wow! Nothing matters to OC more than beating Jericho! He said it would be the biggest match of his career! Dude is going to train and prepare like crazy!

Friday: Wow so funny, he is back to just sitting and not caring! Guess Wednesday meant absolutely nothing!

Amazing character progression...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Lheurch said:


> I try to read most threads on here at least somewhat. The things that hurt the show the most for me are obviously going to get attention.
> 
> I do like the defending everything they do by so many people on here:
> 
> ...


Swerve, he trained beforehand - but lives his gimmick for the marks

he’s actually very old school that way


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Swerve, he trained beforehand - but lives his gimmick for the marks
> 
> he’s actually very old school that way


He does remind me a lot of something one Vince or the other would have come up with. I am surprised nothing will be on a pole.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Hephaesteus said:


> WWE uses legends of the past to pop ratings... What desperate assholes
> AEW does the same... Way to go to get the talent over!
> 
> LOL never change


There's a big difference between 1990-1996 broadcaster Eric Bischoff making a cameo, in a moderator role, in a segment with a lot of comedy. Taking into account Orange Cassidy having a shelf life anyway. 

...and

A very limited Goldberg squashing The Fiend, Dolph Ziggler and Kevin Owens
The Undertaker squashing Rusev and AJ Styles
Legends kicking the shit out of Revival, Damien Sandow, Sami Zayn etc
Shane McMahon beating Roman Reigns
Countless special editions of Raw and SmackDown


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Lheurch said:


> He does remind me a lot of something one Vince or the other would have come up with. I am surprised nothing will be on a pole.


Except the ladies because they love OC


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Surprising you'd like Orange Cassidy because 100% of your posts that I see from you has a negative slant on AEW.
> 
> So fucking what if I think he'll become a megastar. That's my prediction. He's over he has a great look and he can hang with Jericho on the mic. It's not any more ridiculous than the haters that watch something they hate every week. Dont give me that bullshit excuse of wanting to see it get better. If it hasn't gotten better for you by now then there's no reason for you not to spend your Wednesday nights watching something else in our age of endless media. You're not Dave Meltzer, nobody is paying you guys to watch wrestling and give your opinions on it so why even bother?


You must only look for the negatives then. Don't worry, there's a few others on here who do exactly the same thing. That last paragraph is full of lies and dishonesty


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Except the ladies because they love OC


I dunno. I have not met many women who like guys who sit around all day and do nothing.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Lheurch said:


> I dunno.* I have not met many women* who like guys who sit around all day and do nothing.


i believe you


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i believe you


I mean if you are just going to start taking parts of sentences and bold them to try and make a grade school joke, I would say you have been watching way too much OC two digit IQ humor lately. Put on some Python


----------



## BigCy (Nov 10, 2012)

prosperwithdeen said:


> I don't see wrestling ever reaching that mainstream level again. Yeah, it's a defeatist attitude which I don't really like to take, but that's the reality of the situation. You have Cena, The Rock, Becky, Batista, Lesnar, Rousey and now even Reigns getting roles in Hollywood, going on game shows, cross-promoting with UFC, getting their clips shown on ESPN with live interviews to follow, teaming with women's sports in the U.S. for commercial collaborations that push PR stuff, and the mainstream needle hasn't moved. WWE is making more money, but the sport itself is not gaining mainstream popularity. What else can they possibly do? People are noticing but they're not interested, because the stigma of "wrestling is fake" is too ingrained in society at this point. Then you have the UFC constantly reminding people that "this is real fighting and wrestling combined, not that WWE stuff".
> 
> Back then people were willing to let it slide because kayfabe was alive and you had bodybuilders who got you excited to see them fight. The talent above that I listed were all over as fu*k. They all have charisma and mic skills on the level of the guys of old or close to it. They just don't yell as much and juice themselves before every promo. That's the only difference. You can't get any more over than that today. But the mainstream audience is not latching on. WWE has PR campaigns out the ass, but nothing has changed. Now given, A LOT of that is because the WWE product sucks hard, but in 2020, it'll be extremely hard to get the general mainstream audience to take wrestling seriously. They know its scripted, kayfabe is dead, and WWE doesn't allow their talent to get too popular out of fear that they will become bigger than the brand. If they had let their talent actually be stars over the last 10-12 years we would probably be having a different conversation. They were literally sitting on Becky Lynch and they had no idea. Now they're talking about giving her a Marvel role. How many more are in the back that could get over at that level if given the chance? But WWE clearly doesn't like it when you get over if it's not within their booking or creative plans. After Batista and Cena in 2005, they completely stopped creating stars. That takes its toll on the audience's perception of the show over the years because there is no buzz around it. Then year after year, it just continues to die off.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your thorough explanation and rebuttal. I totally get your side of it and agree with about 90% of what you said here now and I can't really argue against too much of what was said. I guess my take in a nutshell and the only thing I could still stress is that it could be possible that companies could still try to broaden the horizons for the overall business at large. Imagine mergers, if you will, of cerain like minded companies to expand their product bases and growth margins. This would take promotions and those in charge of them to bite the bullet a bit and take a risk working with other promotions but it would definitely generate some more buzz. I know I'm spilling into another point entirely as we are discussing making stars but it could at least indirectly help with this and could be a start to another boom. All hypothetical of course.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I told you what was good about it in the opening post, but I'll gladly elaborate in bullet point format to make it painfully clear for you.*
> 
> 
> *It peeled the layers of Orange Cassidy, showing he's more than a comedy gimmick*
> ...


It was good and I like OC but none of what you said of what OC did was particularly impressive. Yes, it added to the stakes of the match but this was expected because that is OC's gimmick during a match, play it loose and easy then explode in rage. The promo was the same, play it like he doesn't want to talk then explode, telling Jericho he will beat him and shame him cause he doesn't think he's a wrestler. It is still very much a comedic thing and it wasn't something powerful like the Moxley promo for instance. 

This is what people have been saying that there's a limit that you can do with comedy or gimmick characters.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Wolf Mark said:


> It was good and I like OC but none of what you said of what OC did was particularly impressive. Yes, it added to the stakes of the match but this was expected because that is OC's gimmick during a match, play it loose and easy then explode in rage. The promo was the same, play it like he doesn't want to talk then explode, telling Jericho he will beat him and shame him cause he doesn't think he's a wrestler. It is still very much a comedic thing and it wasn't something powerful like the Moxley promo for instance.
> 
> This is what people have been saying that there's a limit that you can do with comedy or gimmick characters.


*Of course Cassidy doesn't sound like Moxley because he shouldn't. They're two different characters. That's like saying Mankind didn't cut the same promos as Al Snow. No shit. Cassidy's promo worked for Cassidy and the segment as a whole was a huge success.*


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Of course Cassidy doesn't sound like Moxley because he shouldn't. They're two different characters. That's like saying Mankind didn't cut the same promos as Al Snow. No shit. Cassidy's promo worked for Cassidy and the segment as a whole was a huge success.*


It was a success for him as a character but I cannot say it was a huge success for AEW.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291792575507173376


Hold up, I thought everyone was praising this segment because it showed how serious Orange Cassidy is taking the match. Now we have this clip which shows he isn't taking the match seriously at all which absolutely kills the angle but also makes the segment pointless. Brilliant.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Still draws you for the comments - must be worth something


I want to put a stop to this before it gets started and becomes a thing on here.

All because someone comments on something doesn't mean they care about it. I don't care about Orange Cassidy but I'll gladly read the debate in this thread because and have a view on it because whilst not caring or being invested in him I do have an opinion on him.

You're starting to use this more and more. "WELL YOU MUST CARE! YOU'RE HERE TALKING ABOUT IT!". It's a bad argument.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hold up, I thought everyone was praising this segment because it showed how serious Orange Cassidy is taking the match. Now we have this clip which shows he isn't taking the match seriously at all which absolutely kills the angle but also makes the segment pointless. Brilliant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oc is living rent free in your head - slothing out on couch in there


----------



## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

The moment OC finally talked was fun and Y2J's reaction was hilarious.


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> All because someone comments on something doesn't mean they care about it. I don't care about Orange Cassidy but I'll gladly read the debate in this thread because and have a view on it because whilst not caring or being invested in him I do have an opinion on him.


...

You just described caring about it, Chip.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Lheurch said:


> I mean if you are just going to start taking parts of sentences and bold them to try and make a grade school joke, I would say you have been watching way too much OC two digit IQ humor lately. Put on some Python


Lol

I was just being juvenile - it was right there, had to bold it


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I want to put a stop to this before it gets started and becomes a thing on here.
> 
> All because someone comments on something doesn't mean they care about it. I don't care about Orange Cassidy but I'll gladly read the debate in this thread because and have a view on it because whilst not caring or being invested in him I do have an opinion on him.
> 
> You're starting to use this more and more. "WELL YOU MUST CARE! YOU'RE HERE TALKING ABOUT IT!". It's a bad argument.


And you haven’t answered me the prior time I used it

that ‘not caring‘ means ‘not showing up’

hate is an emotion / emotion denotes caring, one way or the other

denying that is denying the very nature of humanity

as I mentioned before, if you want to see an example of ‘not caring’ - look at my contribution to the Impact forum

People said ‘check it out’ / I checked it out - and I didn’t care

not one more post from me - not dragging anything, not pointing out the stuff I thought was stupid, not obsessing

just... not caring, therefore... not participating

so, I’ll keep using it as an argument as long as it is truthful and relevant

arguing against this very notion is silly


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Wolf Mark said:


> It was a success for him as a character but I cannot say it was a huge success for AEW.


*THEY PEAKED IN 2020 VIEWERSHIP!*


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

BigCy said:


> Thank you for your thorough explanation and rebuttal. I totally get your side of it and agree with about 90% of what you said here now and I can't really argue against too much of what was said. I guess my take in a nutshell and the only thing I could still stress is that it could be possible that companies could still try to broaden the horizons for the overall business at large. Imagine mergers, if you will, of cerain like minded companies to expand their product bases and growth margins. This would take promotions and those in charge of them to bite the bullet a bit and take a risk working with other promotions but it would definitely generate some more buzz. I know I'm spilling into another point entirely as we are discussing making stars but it could at least indirectly help with this and could be a start to another boom. All hypothetical of course.


I can see that. If there was a NJPW and AEW merger for example, that could possibly turn some heads with the mainstream audience just because of the US and Japan crossover itself. Then if both companies were to promote in a way that celebrates both cultures, it could pick up steam in the mainstream. Then you build your stars on top of that positive attention. Good idea.


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## Brad Boyd (Jan 28, 2020)

Honestly Jericho seems to be carrying Cassidy at this point but also at the same time he's putting him over quite well. I like Cassidys character/gimmick that's about it. Not a great speaking voice nor have I seen him do much for me in the ring, but he works. That segment was entertaining, Jerichos jokes/lines had me laughing. Guys been doing this for 20 plus years and his delivery is still amazing. Fucking love Jericho.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

MontyCora said:


> ...
> 
> You just described caring about it, Chip.


You can have an opinion without caring about something. To me caring is giving consistent thought to something and having some kind of strong emotion towards it whether it's love, hatred, sadness, loneliness etc etc.

If my Mrs is watching TV in the bedroom and I walk in and comment on someone being a shitty actor do I care about that actor because I had an opinion on their performance? No. If the guys at work tell me a story about someone and I say "Oh, he sounds like a shit bloke" does that automatically mean I care about the guy? No.

In regards to Orange, I don't really like him but I don't feel strongly about him either way. I comment on his TV character, I think his character is shitty. If that means I care about him in your mind then sure, I care about him but I care in a negative way. If he got sacked tomorrow and disappeared off TV forever I'd probably never think about the guy again.

What I do actually care about is AEW's insistence on shitting on wrestling. Orange Cassidy cuts a promo literally 3-4 nights ago saying he's taking this match with Jericho seriously and no more shenanigans only for us to get a video two days later of him sitting in the corner of the gym acting like a fool. That 30 second clip shows Jericho Vs Cassidy is unimportant and that we shouldn't care about it but haw haw Orange doesn't wanna work out isn't it teh funnehz?

No, it's not...


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *THEY PEAKED IN 2020 VIEWERSHIP!*


OC and Jericho Peaked in 18-49 viewer ship for the debate for the episode, they were not the peak overall viewership, that was the 12 man tag.

What was interesting was that the angle only gained like 3K total viewers, but it rose huge in 18-49, so that means people over 50 tuned out, but a lot of younger people tuned in.

Either the 50+ don't like OC, or the under 18 audience doesn't like OC. I think it's pretty obvious which one it is.


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## Ayres (May 26, 2020)

I really enjoyed the debate. I really thought it would of been boring but AEW really put it together well


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## Ayres (May 26, 2020)

bradboyd said:


> Honestly Jericho seems to be carrying Cassidy at this point but also at the same time he's putting him over quite well. I like Cassidys character/gimmick that's about it. Not a great speaking voice nor have I seen him do much for me in the ring, but he works. That segment was entertaining, Jerichos jokes/lines had me laughing. Guys been doing this for 20 plus years and his delivery is still amazing. Fucking love Jericho.


well he should be carrying him and the company. He’s the man and turning OC into a unique star


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *THEY PEAKED IN 2020 VIEWERSHIP!*


And Disco Inferno was on Nitro when they peaked!


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Wolf Mark said:


> And Disco Inferno was on Nitro when they peaked!


*Wolfpack Disco was the shit*! *Put some respek on his name!
*


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## epfou1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Anyone think Orange Cassidy was miming? The climate change answer seemed pre recorded over a loud speaker, than actually said live.


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

epfou1 said:


> Anyone think Orange Cassidy was miming? The climate change answer seemed pre recorded over a loud speaker, than actually said live.


He was very obviously and evidently reading off of a card on the podium in front of him, using the glasses to try to mask the fact.

It looked fake, but the gag still worked. Mostly because of Jericho's hilarious jaw drop sell.


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## sjm76 (Feb 23, 2017)

I watched the debate mainly because I wanted to see Bischoff but wasn't impressed with it overall. Orange Cassidy just looks like he's trying too hard to be cool.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

21 years ago today, Y2J made his WWE debut against The Rock, the greatest talker ever. Today he is getting ready to fight a skinny goof who is apparently great because he managed to barely talk once. How far things have fallen.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Lheurch said:


> 21 years ago today, Y2J made his WWE debut against The Rock, the greatest talker ever. Today he is getting ready to fight a skinny goof who is apparently great because he managed to barely talk once. How far things have fallen.


Fans were also a lot less bitter and jaded then


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Firefromthegods said:


> Fans were also a lot less bitter and jaded then


Well who wouldn't be bitter and jaded?

We went from Rock / Austin to OC / Jericho

NWO to the Dork Order


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

La Parka said:


> Well who wouldn't be bitter and jaded?
> 
> We went from Rock / Austin to OC / Jericho
> 
> NWO to the Dork Order


The NWO ALWAYS sucked, and they were more responsible for killing wrestling than anything Cassidy could ever do. The NWO and people who had no idea what to do with the NWO choked the life out of professional wrestling, killed a company and the business has never been the same since those idiots irrepairably ruined it.

Just another notch of PROOF that Hogan is the WOAT.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

La Parka said:


> Well who wouldn't be bitter and jaded?
> 
> We went from Rock / Austin to OC / Jericho
> 
> NWO to the Dork Order


I'm the wrong audience for that last one. My comment was more in relation to WWE booking making fans bitter and jaded.

I mean they had Jericho job to much worse than oc. Even if he is a whore and lays down for everyone. Jericho won't be laying down for cassidy


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

MontyCora said:


> The NWO ALWAYS sucked, and they were more responsible for killing wrestling than anything Cassidy could ever do. The NWO and people who had no idea what to do with the NWO choked the life out of professional wrestling, killed a company and the business has never been the same since those idiots irrepairably ruined it.
> 
> Just another notch of PROOF that Hogan is the WOAT.


Wow if you actually believe that, it explains a lot. Saying something as ignorant as that makes me think you know almost nothing of WCW history and finances.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Firefromthegods said:


> I'm the wrong audience for that last one. My comment was more in relation to WWE booking making fans bitter and jaded.
> 
> I mean they had Jericho job to much worse than oc. Even if he is a whore and lays down for everyone. Jericho won't be laying down for cassidy


WWE booking certainly has made people bitter and jaded.

The difference to WWE having Jericho job, (and I dispute he jobbed to people worse than OC but I could be wrong. Who are you referring to? 6'4 Fandango?) and him jobbing in AEW is he is THE star in AEW vs in WWE he was never THE guy. He was always a medium to large fish in a large ocean. He could slide up and down the card because they mostly, at least back in the day, had a stacked upper card to hold the fort down. His mistake here is not realizing he is the star in AEW and he cannot be midcard without making the product itself midcard. They are not established enough yet for him to play his games and he is 49. Not like he has a ton of time to make a lot of guys.

"Jericho won't be laying down for cassidy"

We can chat again after Wednesday.


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> Wow if you actually believe that, it explains a lot. Saying something as ignorant as that makes me think you know almost nothing of WCW history and finances.


Hogan is the worst professional rassler in history.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

MontyCora said:


> Hogan is the worst professional rassler in history.


There would be no wrestling business today without him. How can you be that ignorant even if you do not like him as an act?


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> There would be no wrestling business today without him. How can you be that ignorant even if you do not like him as an act?


I know I certainly never liked him as an act, but what he's done for the industry is undeniable; he wasn't only a wrestling star in his prime, he was a damn pop culture icon.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

El Hammerstone said:


> I know I certainly never liked him as an act, but what he's done for the industry is undeniable; he wasn't only a wrestling star in his prime, he was a damn pop culture icon.


I was not watching back in the original days of Hulkamania but nWo Hogan was awesome. Sting was my guy and needed final boss Hogan to pay heh.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Lheurch said:


> WWE booking certainly has made people bitter and jaded.
> 
> The difference to WWE having Jericho job, (and I dispute he jobbed to people worse than OC but I could be wrong. Who are you referring to? 6'4 Fandango?) and him jobbing in AEW is he is THE star in AEW vs in WWE he was never THE guy. He was always a medium to large fish in a large ocean. He could slide up and down the card because they mostly, at least back in the day, had a stacked upper card to hold the fort down. His mistake here is not realizing he is the star in AEW and he cannot be midcard without making the product itself midcard. They are not established enough yet for him to play his games and he is 49. Not like he has a ton of time to make a lot of guys.
> 
> ...


Heath slater is essentially the same comedic character in WWE and Jericho jobbed to him needlessly on nxt. That's pretty egregious. Back when nxt stars were game show contestants 

Well you were so sure orange was gonna win the first time but sure it's a date


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> There would be no wrestling business today without him. How can you be that ignorant even if you do not like him as an act?


The business would be in a better place without that vampire.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Firefromthegods said:


> Heath slater is essentially the same comedic character in WWE and Jericho jobbed to him needlessly on nxt. That's pretty egregious. Back when nxt stars were game show contestants
> 
> Well you were so sure orange was gonna win the first time but sure it's a date


Yes, that is pretty egregious, I agree. Neither should happen. But one company had the star power to fill the void.

I do not think that is a fair characterization of what I believed for the first match. I was not sure he was going to win, I was concerned they might be dumb enough to let him.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

MontyCora said:


> The business would be in a better place without that vampire.


I cannot imagine the universe you live in where Hogan not existing ever means the business would be in a BETTER position.


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> I cannot imagine the universe you live in where Hogan not existing ever means the business would be in a BETTER position.


Hulk Hogan turned professional wrestling into sports entertainment. His 80's steroids obsessed can't do anything interesting in the ring act still haunts the dreams of fans everywhere.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

MontyCora said:


> Hulk Hogan turned professional wrestling into sports entertainment. His 80's steroids obsessed can't do anything interesting in the ring act still haunts the dreams of fans everywhere.


You misspelled Vince McMahon.


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

MontyCora said:


> The NWO ALWAYS sucked, and they were more responsible for killing wrestling than anything Cassidy could ever do. The NWO and people who had no idea what to do with the NWO choked the life out of professional wrestling, killed a company and the business has never been the same since those idiots irrepairably ruined it.
> 
> Just another notch of PROOF that Hogan is the WOAT.


Cassidy will never be able to harm the business because hes completely irrelevant to anyone outside of the incredibly small bubble of modern day wrestling fans. NWO didn't kill WCW, they were WCW. If Nash / Hogan / Hall don't form the NWO, WCW in the 90's would largely be ignored in 2020 and perhaps the attitude era doesn't even happen. The influence the NWO has will go beyond anything AEW or WWE will ever do again. Do you really think any AEW merch will be worn in 2 decades? Do you think anyone will be wearing a fight owens fight t-shirt? let alone by known celebrities? Doubtful.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Lheurch said:


> Yes, that is pretty egregious, I agree. Neither should happen. But one company had the star power to fill the void.
> 
> I do not think that is a fair characterization of what I believed for the first match. I was not sure he was going to win, I was concerned they might be dumb enough to let him.


Like I told you if oc gets above a certain point then they will be stuck for a while. I don't think Cody would let it happen cause aew is his. And Tony is too much of a pussy to do something that will piss his meal tickets off


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Firefromthegods said:


> Like I told you if oc gets above a certain point then they will be stuck for a while. I don't think Cody would let it happen cause aew is his. And Tony is too much of a pussy to do something that will piss his meal tickets off


I used to believe that. I do not think I do anymore.


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

La Parka said:


> Cassidy will never be able to harm the business because hes completely irrelevant to anyone outside of the incredibly small bubble of modern day wrestling fans. NWO didn't kill WCW, they were WCW. If Nash / Hogan / Hall don't form the NWO, WCW in the 90's would largely be ignored in 2020 and perhaps the attitude era doesn't even happen. The influence the NWO has will go beyond anything AEW or WWE will ever do again. Do you really think any AEW merch will be worn in 2 decades? Do you think anyone will be wearing a fight owens fight t-shirt? let alone by known celebrities? Doubtful.
> 
> View attachment 89750
> 
> ...


Hipster SWINE! This is your example? A Kardashian and a hack comic? Geeeeeet outttttttttta heeeeeeere!


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> You misspelled Vince McMahon.


Oh right, I give Hogan WAY too much credit good point. He was just Vince's empty headed hand puppet.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

La Parka said:


> Cassidy will never be able to harm the business because hes completely irrelevant to anyone outside of the incredibly small bubble of modern day wrestling fans. NWO didn't kill WCW, they were WCW. If Nash / Hogan / Hall don't form the NWO, WCW in the 90's would largely be ignored in 2020 and perhaps the attitude era doesn't even happen. The influence the NWO has will go beyond anything AEW or WWE will ever do again. Do you really think any AEW merch will be worn in 2 decades? Do you think anyone will be wearing a fight owens fight t-shirt? let alone by known celebrities? Doubtful.
> 
> View attachment 89750
> 
> ...


But I was just told tonight that the business would have been better off if Hulk Hogan never existed. Clearly the nWo getting WCW on the Tonight Show and TAKING OVER the Tonight Show for a segment is no big deal. Let me know when even a D list celebrity vaguely has heard the name Orange Cassidy.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

MontyCora said:


> Oh right, I give Hogan WAY too much credit good point. He was just Vince's empty headed hand puppet.


One only needs to look at Hogan's work before Hulkamania to know he is not what you said he was.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Monty, sometimes I like you, sometimes I don't but today I read some of your comments and just think "Wow, he must really not know". Allow me to respond:



MontyCora said:


> The NWO ALWAYS sucked, and they were more responsible for killing wrestling than anything Cassidy could ever do. The NWO and people who had no idea what to do with the NWO choked the life out of professional wrestling, killed a company and the business has never been the same since those idiots irrepairably ruined it.
> 
> Just another notch of PROOF that Hogan is the WOAT.


The nWo always sucked? Responsible for killing wrestling? Try one of the hottest angles of all time that made tens of millions of dollars for WCW. The nWo was at one point so hot that they needed more members for the house show circuit because the people would be outraged if they didn't see the nWo in their town. That's why a heap of WCW house shows had main events consisting of stuff like Scott Norton, Stevie Ray and Vincent taking on a babyface team of stars. It didn't matter that the guys were nWo B-Teamers the people wanted nWo Vs WCW in their town.

nWo didn't kill WCW either. nWo T-Shirts were still selling like hotcakes in WCW's last run of the nWo and the group was over and doing business. Not to the point it was in 96, 97 and 98 but still doing good business.



MontyCora said:


> Hogan is the worst professional rassler in history.


How? The guy has literally made tens of if not hundreds of millions during his time in the wrestling world for his respective companies. You saying that is like saying Tom Cruise is a shitty actor. It's just so easy to debate with one question which is "If he's the worst why have so many people paid to see him?"



MontyCora said:


> The business would be in a better place without that vampire.


I can tell you that without Hulk Hogan you very well might not have ever seen a huge wrestling boom. Vince McMahon knew he needed a big star who had a look, charisma, microphone ability etc to go mainstream and Hogan was that guy. They tried to replicate it a fair few times and failed and the next true big long term star that came out of the WWF and appealed on a national level was Stone Cold.

Without Hogan I'd suggest that maybe Vince either never gets the balls to go national or he does get the balls to go national but chooses the wrong guy to go national with causing him major issues and resulting in his failure. If Vince fails that means no WWE, JCP/WCW probably still becomes a thing but who knows how long that lasts without Hogan? They were dying and losing massive money until Hulk came along also.

Wrestling world without Hogan in 2020 would probably result in it being worse off than it currently is.

Also, fun alternate timeline but the AWA actually had Hogan for a run. Imagine if Verne Gagne had dropped his older and more traditional views and just decided to go national. AWA with Hogan leading the charge could've resulted in us all watching AWA All-Star Wrestling every week today.



Lheurch said:


> One only needs to look at Hogan's work before Hulkamania to know he is not what you said he was.


Yeah, as pointed out above Hogan was a draw and a talent way before Vince. More proof that Monty doesn't know what he's talking about.


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

La Parka said:


> Cassidy will never be able to harm the business because hes completely irrelevant to anyone outside of the incredibly small bubble of modern day wrestling fans. NWO didn't kill WCW, they were WCW. If Nash / Hogan / Hall don't form the NWO, WCW in the 90's would largely be ignored in 2020 and perhaps the attitude era doesn't even happen. The influence the NWO has will go beyond anything AEW or WWE will ever do again. Do you really think any AEW merch will be worn in 2 decades? Do you think anyone will be wearing a fight owens fight t-shirt? let alone by known celebrities? Doubtful.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Firefromthegods said:


> I'm the wrong audience for that last one. My comment was more in relation to WWE booking making fans bitter and jaded.
> 
> I mean they had Jericho job to much worse than oc. Even if he is a whore and lays down for everyone. Jericho won't be laying down for cassidy


Told you. Believe me I wish more than anyone that I would have been wrong. But this was obvious to me.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Lheurch said:


> Told you. Believe me I wish more than anyone that I would have been wrong. But this was obvious to me.


Kinda spoiled it for me. I haven't sat down to watch it yet I was going to @ you after I got through both shows.

Fuck what a stupid decision on tonys part. Since I know the result now, was it clean or were there shenanigans?


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Firefromthegods said:


> Kinda spoiled it for me. I haven't sat down to watch it yet I was going to @ you after I got through both shows.
> 
> Fuck what a stupid decision on tonys part. Since I know the result now, was it clean or were there shenanigans?


Sorry, did not mean to spoil it for you. This was just so dumb. The match was full of botches and so was the finish. He won with a botched Mousetrap/roll up of sorts and AFTER Hager interfered to help Jericho. It was worse than I could have imagined it to be. And we both know they are doing the rubber match at the PPV.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Lheurch said:


> Sorry, did not mean to spoil it for you. This was just so dumb. The match was full of botches and so was the finish. He won with a botched Mousetrap/roll up of sorts and AFTER Hager interfered to help Jericho. It was worse than I could have imagined it to be. And we both know they are doing the rubber match at the PPV.


Atleadt I was provenright that a win over Jericho means nothing cause he lays down for anyone. Just watch stunt beat him now


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Firefromthegods said:


> Atleadt I was provenright that a win over Jericho means nothing cause he lays down for anyone. Just watch stunt beat him now


He definitely did not bring anyone up to his previous level. He is down at the sewer level now. What a complete waste. This is not WWE where you had a half dozen top stars to carry the banner while Jericho plays in the lower card. To me, this hurts them a lot by not being able to have Jericho give a big win to someone who will be your next big star.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

man, Jericho was an embarrassment last night.

What a a shame.


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