# Sonny Kiss getting a title shot is a joke



## MoxAsylum (Jan 9, 2020)

Seriously get this dude off of my television screen. I understand it’s an open challenge but that’s going to be an instant channel changer....


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

AEW doesn't give a fuck about you, their fans, or anyone else. The fact that they are still going with The Dark Order and only stopped The Nightmare Collective because Brandi was getting insecure about her performances should spell that out for you. They will continue to piss on your leg and tell you it's raining for as long as you let them.

This is a vanity promotion because Tony Khan could get his dad to separate himself from a cool hundred million and he could get to hang out with wrestlers and they could get themselves on TV a little bit. I'm sure they think that they can be successful in the way they want to do things, but it's obvious they want to do things their way instead of the right way. This is way more like WCW than you will ever hear Meltzer or Alvarez report.

Because they aren't jacked, can do flips, act nice to one another and aren't that over, people don't see the similarities between The Elite and Tony Khan and Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash, DDP and Eric Bischoff.


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## Oracle (Nov 9, 2011)

Marq Quen, Sonny Kiss whats next Cody vs Marko? 

fuck me this is going to get old FAST


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Marko Stunt IS probably going to get a shot at some point. Cody will want to prove he can work with anyone.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Your marquee matches for next week are Cody/Sonny, Marko/Luchasaurus/Jungle Boy Vs Kenny and The Bucks plus Brian Cage Vs Jon Moxley in a clear NXT knock off.

Wood is right, AEW don't give a fuck about the fans or even putting on a good show. Much like Dixie Carter's TNA it's a vanity project designed for the owner to be able to mark out.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I've got two conspiracy theories that that post reminded me of:

1. Jon Moxley would have actually been able to compete as advertised, but they wanted to delay the title match so they had a chance unopposed coming out of getting smashed at GAB. Didn't have the heart to pull Jericho and Cassidy even though that's been a flop, so decided to follow that through to its "logical conclusion" (damned if you do, damned if you don't) and take the hit with hopes of turning it around.

2. The Bucks are genuinely insecure about FTR being considered a better overall tag team than them, so they booked "themselves" to lose on Dynamite this week and to go against the goof next week. They are stepping further into their comedy wheelhouse to bury FTR's serious act by association. This will be under the guise of "putting over" other teams by working with them, and they will probably encourage FTR to incorporate it into their promos, which will cannibalise kayfabe and make them look weird.

I'm especially convinced of The Bucks one. They idolise The Kliq guys, and this is the sort of shit Shawn Michaels and Triple H are aces at. Plus, it's well known that they are conniving assholes. Either they are totally ignorant to how wrestling works at all (very possible), or this is a very sneaky way to ice FTR at the same time as apparently "building" to something with them. Next week it will be through Omega doing stuff with Stunt in a match where The Bucks are just bystanders.


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## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

MoxAsylum said:


> Seriously get this dude off of my television screen. I understand it’s an open challenge but that’s going to be an instant channel changer....


Lol, gloom and Doom.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Blaze2k2 said:


> Lol, gloom and Doom.


If it is a channel changer will you admit it?


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Blaze2k2 said:


> Lol, gloom and Doom.


Cut that shit out. We don't need more AEW apologists just burying peoples opinions with "Lulz u are always so negative"

Debate his opinion. What do you think about the title shot? Is Sonny Kiss deserving after a couple of lame tag matches and getting his ass kicked by Archer? If yes, why? If no, why?


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## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

The Wood said:


> If it is a channel changer will you admit it?


I like watching Sonny Kiss. I think he's a phenomenal athlete with a lot of potential.


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## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Cut that shit out. We don't need more AEW apologists just burying peoples opinions with "Lulz u are always so negative"
> 
> Debate his opinion. What do you think about the title shot? Is Sonny Kiss deserving after a couple of lame tag matches and getting his ass kicked by Archer? If yes, why? If no, why?


I couldn't care less why Sonny Kiss got the title shot as long as he delivers a entertaining match with Cody that's all I care about.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Blaze2k2 said:


> I couldn't care less why Sonny Kiss got the title shot as long as he delivers a entertaining match with Cody that's all I care about.


If/when AEW gets thrown off the air because audiences aren't as readily entertained as you, will you care then?


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## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

The Wood said:


> If/when AEW gets thrown off the air because audiences aren't as readily entertained as you, will you care then?


It won't so your point is moot.


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## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Blaze2k2 said:


> It won't so your point is moot.


/Thread


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Blaze2k2 said:


> It won't so your point is moot.


If it does? Let's talk hypothetically. Will you have the integrity to admit that they probably fucked up.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

NXT Only said:


> /Thread


Lol, there's a thread full of people who, at some point, were extremely optimistic about AEW, talking about how they are being run off. Someone says "it doesn't matter" and it's called a thread. Awesome discussion, guys!


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## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

Yeah I'm not interested in that whatsoever. I don't even hate Sonny Kiss but he shouldn't be anywhere near a title shot. He's a comedy act low carder.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

I wonder if the AEW apologists have noticed slowly and slowly week by week that the "AEW haters" group is growing and growing. I first started regularly posting here in late February and at the time it was just me, Wood, Cult, Lheurch and Hammerstone who spoke about issues with the product. You now have a thread (The show thread) where many of the former apologists are speaking about how bad the product is starting to get.

Going off that it must be hitting regular people as well. It's all well and good to say confidently that AEW will last forever but will it? Remember in the span of just 5 years TNA Wrestling went from being the hottest thing on Spike TV and having one of the most stacked rosters in wrestling to getting booted off Spike TV and having their ratings drop from 1.2 million to about 500,000 a week.

And this happened to TNA who were actually intelligent enough to hire people who know how to run a wrestling promotion and have runs on the board in doing so. AEW is lead by four wrestlers looking out for themselves and a rich kid wanting to copy angles from 20 years ago.


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## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

I dont think y'all are growing, I think you guys are just screaming louder.


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## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

No matter what AEW does there will always be a segment of the fanbase unhappy with certain things and that's okay because you cant please everyone.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

NXT Only said:


> I dont think y'all are growing, I think you guys are just screaming louder.


It's definitely growing. Notice I didn't write MoxAsylum in that original list of people who were against AEW yet he's now definitely painted that way by you guys.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Oracle said:


> Marq Quen, Sonny Kiss whats next Cody vs Marko?
> 
> fuck me this is going to get old FAST


Bruh!! You're jinxing it...Marko Stunt may be next?


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## Oracle (Nov 9, 2011)

I have no problem with Sonny Kiss but this stuff should be on Dark, not on the two hour weekly show you produce. 

Sonny kiss will never ever be a draw or get eyes on the product anyway so its like flogging a dead horse. 

pointless


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## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's definitely growing. Notice I didn't write MoxAsylum in that original list of people who were against AEW yet he's now definitely painted that way by you guys.


Grew by 1. Remember what I told you, people who are enjoying the show aren't as likely to tell us on here or even in general, they just enjoy it. 

I dont paint anyone any specific way. I personally understand most of your points and even others but the issue comes with how guys think your feelings are gospel when they aren't.

If AEW put on the shows you and others wanted and a new segment of the fan base came out complaining about the quality of the show, what would you tell them?


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## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

Cody continuing to add prestige to a singles title by fighting another half of a brand new, low card tag team. Great booking.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

It's a midcard title. Fuck I thought you meant the world title for a second.


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## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Firefromthegods said:


> It's a midcard title. Fuck I thought you meant the world title for a second.


Brian Cage is holding the ftw belt because his match against Jon Moxley is next week for the world championship.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Ozell Gray said:


> Brian Cage is holding the ftw belt because his match against Jon Moxley is next week for the world championship.


I'm aware. My overall point being it's the same as the ic or us title during cenas run. Low carders got shots then as well. The tnt title honestly is only worth getting up in arms over if one of these guys actually pin him.

Also welcome back


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## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Firefromthegods said:


> I'm aware. My overall point being it's the same as the ic or us title during cenas run. Low carders got shots then as well. The tnt title honestly is only worth getting up in arms over if one of these guys actually pin him.
> 
> Also welcome back


I think people are up in arms because they think it could've been booked better (which it could've) but it was presented poorly and it was a week before his world title match.

Thanks.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Ozell Gray said:


> I think people are up in arms because they think it could've been booked better (which it could've) but it was presented poorly and it was a week before his world title match.
> 
> Thanks.


Oh you're talking about Brian cage. I was talking about the TNT championship lol


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## CMPunkRock316 (Jan 17, 2016)

I'm sorry but Sonny Kiss belongs on Dark


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## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Firefromthegods said:


> Oh you're talking about Brian cage. I was talking about the TNT championship lol


I thought you were talking about Brian Cage at first but my bad.

The Sonny Kiss vs Cody Rhodes match is hated because people don't want to see Sonny Kiss on the show or getting title shots. Cody Rhodes' opponent should've been someone else who would've been worth watching.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Ozell Gray said:


> I thought you were talking about Brian Cage at first but my bad.
> 
> The Sonny Kiss vs Cody Rhodes match is hated because people don't want to see Sonny Kiss on the show or getting title shots. Cody Rhodes' opponent should've been someone else who would've been worth watching.


Yeah that's fair enough but all these wins are designed for a heel turn. Then when his at maximum prick someone will shock him

Basically what we saw on nxt with Cole and Lee. Except Cody will move on up


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## JeSeGaN (Jun 5, 2018)

That will surely help the ratings...


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

NXT Only said:


> I dont think y'all are growing, I think you guys are just screaming louder.


It's definitely growing. 



NXT Only said:


> No matter what AEW does there will always be a segment of the fanbase unhappy with certain things and that's okay because you cant please everyone.


This is the opposite to the buffet defence I often hear of "AEW is putting on something for everyone. You can't just have serious wrestling, you've got to have comedy wrestling, etc."


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## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

Right now Shida is all I am interested in.


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## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

I don't have problems with Kiss as a wrestler (other than not being good enough) or see any issue with Cody going against Kiss. I actually like that the TNT is purely made to show off and give experience to the guys that aren't the top level, that's exactly what the midcard title should be.
The problems I do have with the actual match are:

Kiss has only wrestled tag matches in the last, what, three months or so? What makes him a contender? I know Marq Quen got a match but at least he can back it up enough. I like a tag team oriented show but this is also the problem, not enough single contenders, even lowcarders, to fill in this gap.
Kiss isn't a great wrestler. Passable, but not great. This match needs to be 10m or less (including introductions).
Honestly, on paper, this match is going to be straight up boring. Unless Kiss/Cody do something out of left field, it's going to be a decent showcase match at best.
They could've easily have used someone else, though.


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## DJ Punk (Sep 1, 2016)

An open challenge exists for the sole purpose of giving a lower card challenger the chance to shine and prove their worth. The chance of them actually winning the title is slim and next to none. It is not the equivalent of challenging for a title at a ppv level event. And in the end, the credibility/prestige of the title is raised as well.

I seriously believe some of you don't understand how basic wrestling principles work. Why not just stick to WWE if you have a hard time grasping these basic concepts? WWE dumbs everything down and is the home of nonsensical wrestl...sorry "Sports Entertainment", so you guys should be able to follow that product pretty easily.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The problem I have with Kiss as a wrestler is talent level and psychology. I have no interest in someone with that frame using their ass as a weapon. Sexuality isn’t an issue in wrestling, at all. As long as you can believably beat someone up. That is where Kiss falls down.

The gimmick doesn’t really “get it.” Plus the selling and no-selling this week were fucking awful.


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## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

Lorromire said:


> I don't have problems with Kiss as a wrestler (other than not being good enough) or see any issue with Cody going against Kiss. I actually like that the TNT is purely made to show off and give experience to the guys that aren't the top level, that's exactly what the midcard title should be.
> The problems I do have with the actual match are:
> - Kiss has only wrestled tag matches in the last, what, three months or so? What makes him a contender? I know Marq Quen got a match but at least he can back it up enough.
> I like a tag team oriented show but this is also the problem, not enough single contenders, even lowcarders, to fill in this gap.
> ...


It doesn’t help that they have put majority of their singles roster in unnecessary tag teams leaving Cody with nobody decent to face that he hasn’t before:

Dustin/QT
Cabana/brodie
Sabian/havoc
Janela/kiss
Omega/page
Jericho/Sammy (PnP are tag team in inner circle)

The result being that singles wrestlers are getting tag title shots (Natural nightmares/Superbad squad) and tag team wrestlers are getting singles titles shots (mark quen/jungle boy/kiss)

I still stand by the fact that Archer should’ve won at DON.


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## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

Hitman1987 said:


> It doesn’t help that they have put majority of their singles roster in unnecessary tag teams leaving Cody with nobody decent to face that he hasn’t before:
> 
> Dustin/QT
> Cabana/brodie
> ...


Dustin/QT is purely for the training recruits as they're head trainers I think, so that's fine. If that's not the case, then yeah, split em up.
Cabana/Brodie is great and one of the better storylines happening right now.
Omega/Page is probs the best story happening right now. It's definitely worth a small hiatus from the main event from both.

The rest I agree with.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

They really didn’t need this belt. I still don’t actually get the purpose behind it. Cody and Archer could have just had a match. Or they could have some sort of tournament, like a King of the Ring/New Japan Cup type thing. Give the winner a belt and Archer could have destroyed it to intensify things between them.

There are plenty of ways to go, but they had to albatross themselves with a belt they are already running into trouble booking. Cody could have all these matches without the TNT Title.

It’s honestly kind of belt marky to be doing this.


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## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

The Wood said:


> They really didn’t need this belt. I still don’t actually get the purpose behind it.


The same purpose behind every single midcard belt. To give a spotlight for the lower card guys to shine.


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## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

The Wood said:


> It's definitely growing.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the opposite to the buffet defence I often hear of "AEW is putting on something for everyone. You can't just have serious wrestling, you've got to have comedy wrestling, etc."


This company isn’t for just you, that’s the greater point. That’s like me watching NWA’s show and not liking it then coming onto the NWA forum and crapping on it. It’s just not for me, doesn’t mean it’s bad. You seem to only want things your way.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lorromire said:


> The same purpose behind every single midcard belt. To give a spotlight for the lower card guys to shine.


Why have a mid-card belt though? Saying “oh, to give people a chance to shine” is kind of a non-answer. The matches do that. Why do they need to be over a belt?

When did “mid-card belts” become a thing? Who do they actually help? 



NXT Only said:


> This company isn’t for just you, that’s the greater point. That’s like me watching NWA’s show and not liking it then coming onto the NWA forum and crapping on it. It’s just not for me, doesn’t mean it’s bad. You seem to only want things your way.


I want things to _work_. It’s really ironic you say what you say, because this company doesn’t seem to be for most of the people who gave it a shot, yet you want to disregard them for your own tastes.

There’s nothing wrong with going onto the NWA forum and laying out valid criticisms. Why would you think this would be a problem? I’m sure there would be people who could explain why those criticisms are either not warranted or on-point. That’s kind of the point of discussion.


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## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

Lorromire said:


> Dustin/QT is purely for the training recruits as they're head trainers I think, so that's fine. If that's not the case, then yeah, split em up.
> Cabana/Brodie is great and one of the better storylines happening right now.
> Omega/Page is probs the best story happening right now. It's definitely worth a small hiatus from the main event from both.
> 
> The rest I agree with.


I appreciate there is a connection between QT and Dustin but QT is not good enough for dynamite and I’m not sure why Dustin needs a manager in Brandi who has got 20-30 years less experience than he has. To me it seems like a way for Cody to shoehorn his friends/family into show. They should be jobbing to the singles stars.

Brodie
Brodie should’ve gone straight into a main event scene that was missing big, monster types. I expected big things from him when he joined and now he’s essentially begging Colt ‘boom boom’ cabana to join his cult. I know nothing of colt before AEW so to me he’s just a comedy jobber and isn’t really going to move the needle in the dark order or wrestling in general.

They got lucky with Page and Omega who were put together as they had nothing for them from a singles standpoint. I like both as singles and as a team but it’s difficult to push that you’ve got the best ‘tag team’ division in the world when 2 single wrestlers are at the top and constantly defend against made up teams of singles wrestlers.

This is just my opinion though, I wish I could enjoy it more but I just can’t get excited about QT or Colt cabana taking up dynamite time when people like archer have to sit in crowd.


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## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

The Wood said:


> Why have a mid-card belt though? Saying “oh, to give people a chance to shine” is kind of a non-answer. The matches do that. Why do they need to be over a belt?
> 
> When did “mid-card belts” become a thing? Who do they actually help?
> 
> ...


Your valid criticisms are filled with you crying about things not being your way.

Example, chip asked me about the Archer/Janela match. I disagreed with the direction, I would have preferred Janela getting broken in half building Archer up and giving him some momentum back that he had lost. The match itself however was good so I can’t say the match was shit just because I didn’t agree with the direction of the match. You’ll shit on the match because it wasn’t what you wanted. Just like you shit on everything.


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## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

The Wood said:


> Why have a mid-card belt though? Saying “oh, to give people a chance to shine” is kind of a non-answer. The matches do that. Why do they need to be over a belt?
> 
> When did “mid-card belts” become a thing? Who do they actually help?


Because that's what wrestling is about in kayfabe. The belts. Bragging rights over the other contenders at your level. It's wrestling 101, Wood. You know this.

When? Idk, I'm not a historian. They help loads of people.
A small example list:

Crash Holly
The Miz
Shawn Michaels
Razor Ramon
Almost all of NJPW
Jericho
Steamboat
Harley Race
Eddie Guerrero
Roddy Piper
Edge
HHH
Etc, etc. You get the point. It's literally a foundation for the top card of the future. Before you strawman, I'm not saying Kiss is a future top star.



Hitman1987 said:


> I appreciate there is a connection between QT and Dustin but QT is not good enough for dynamite and I’m not sure why Dustin needs a manager in Brandi who has got 20-30 years less experience than he has. To me it seems like a way for Cody to shoehorn his friends/family into show. They should be jobbing to the singles stars.
> 
> Brodie
> Brodie should’ve gone straight into a main event scene that was missing big, monster types. I expected big things from him when he joined and now he’s essentially begging Colt ‘boom boom’ cabana to join his cult. I know nothing of colt before AEW so to me he’s just a comedy jobber and isn’t really going to move the needle in the dark order or wrestling in general.
> ...


I agree. QT needs more time to get his wrestling up to TV level and Brandi is solely paired with them to be on TV. I have no issue with it, though, as they're not even close to being booked as a main attraction.

I expected more as well. However, I personally love the Dark Order storyline. They SHOULD be going for the low/midcarders in order to build up their cult. He's not begging Colt to join. Colt is begging to join DO. He's using Colt as an example to show others that he can help them.

Both have been wrestling together on and off for years, so it's not hard to grasp that they're a good team. A lot of the other 'big' teams were out due to COVID as well. I think they would've lost the titles a while ago if they had everyone there.

You're focusing too much on Colt being on TV when it's about DO manipulating and using Colt. Archer does need to be on TV more, though.


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## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

Maybe it's to put Archer back with Cody, with Archer attacking Kiss during his match? Kind of falls in line with the past few weeks of Archer laying out both Kiss and Jenela.


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## MoxAsylum (Jan 9, 2020)

Firefromthegods said:


> I'm aware. My overall point being it's the same as the ic or us title during cenas run. Low carders got shots then as well. The tnt title honestly is only worth getting up in arms over if one of these guys actually pin him.
> 
> Also welcome back


Sonny Kiss is atrocious


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

NXT Only said:


> Your valid criticisms are filled with you crying about things not being your way.
> 
> Example, chip asked me about the Archer/Janela match. I disagreed with the direction, I would have preferred Janela getting broken in half building Archer up and giving him some momentum back that he had lost. The match itself however was good so I can’t say the match was shit just because I didn’t agree with the direction of the match. You’ll shit on the match because it wasn’t what you wanted. Just like you shit on everything.


Don’t appeal to others to make yourself seem more balanced. Archer/Janela was not a good match, and there’s nothing wrong with criticising a match for its direction. What kind of nonsense are you trying to sneak past here? Your standard is, ironically, only calibrated to your tastes, like match quality necessarily being separate from the story it tells and the effect it has. 



Lorromire said:


> Because that's what wrestling is about in kayfabe. The belts. Bragging rights over the other contenders at your level. It's wrestling 101, Wood. You know this.
> 
> When? Idk, I'm not a historian. They help loads of people.
> A small example list:
> ...


I wasn’t going to straw-man shit, so cut that silliness. I think that list is a bit sketchy. I won’t go through them all, but when people think of Roddy Piper, do they actually think “thank goodness he held the IC Title in 1992”? Was it even a mid-card belt then? I’m not arguing against secondary championships where appropriate.


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## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

*NXT Only and Lorromire...*


I kind of figured of who it was you were talking to in between, when I'm reading only your posts. Let them talk their  all they want. They're untouchable and no matter what, you're wrong and they're right. Put them all on ignore, so they only have each other to complain to, moan over and cry about, within their little circle. They always talk about AEW fans as being in an our own echo-chamber?! 

*EDIT:* About the match, yeah, I don't care for it either, but we'll all forget about in a week or two anyway so...


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Wood said:


> The problem I have with Kiss as a wrestler is talent level and psychology. I have no interest in someone with that frame using their ass as a weapon. Sexuality isn’t an issue in wrestling, at all. As long as you can believably beat someone up. That is where Kiss falls down.
> 
> The gimmick doesn’t really “get it.” Plus the selling and no-selling this week were fucking awful.


I've said it before and I'll say it again. Sonny Kiss only has a job in AEW because he's a black homosexual and AEW want to appear inclusive. He's nowhere near good enough for TV and has no depth in his character past flamboyant gay guy.


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## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

The Wood said:


> I wasn’t going to straw-man shit, so cut that silliness. I think that list is a bit sketchy. I won’t go through them all, but when people think of Roddy Piper, do they actually think “thank goodness he held the IC Title in 1992”? Was it even a mid-card belt then? I’m not arguing against secondary championships where appropriate.


Wouldn't be the first time someone has so might as well put it out there.
It was always a midcard belt. If it's not the top title then by default it's a midcard belt.
When I think of Roddy, I think of good promos and good wrestling in the midcard. To casuals, I'm sure they love the fact that Roddy won the IC title, as kayfabe accomplishments (especially back in the early 90's) meant a lot to the audience.


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## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Yep it's a joke and making the title look like shit.

Butcher vs Cody, Sky/Kaz vs Cody, Trent, Fenix.... there are enough options.
Their insistence on putting green, DARK-level talents such as Sabian, Kiss and Taylor on TV so much while Darby, Starks and Archer are barley featured is embarrassing and really makes you wonder if they know what the fuck they're doing.


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## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

EmbassyForever said:


> Yep it's a joke and making the title look like shit.
> 
> Butcher vs Cody, Sky/Kaz vs Cody, Trent, Fenix.... there are enough options.
> Their insistence on putting green, DARK-level talents such as Sabian, Kiss and Taylor on TV so much while Darby, Starks and Archer are barley featured is embarrassing and really makes you wonder if they know what the fuck they're doing.


Darby was injured and is clearly being built up to go against Cage on his return. Starks is about the same level as Sabian tbh, so if one gets a shot the other is viable.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Garty said:


> *NXT Only and Lorromire...*
> 
> 
> I kind of figured of who it was you were talking to in between, when I'm reading only your posts. Let them talk their  all they want. They're untouchable and no matter what, you're wrong and they're right. Put them all on ignore, so they only have each other to complain to, moan over and cry about, within their little circle. They always talk about AEW fans as being in an our own echo-chamber?!
> ...


Do you realize how crazy it makes you look that you tell people you have us on ignore, but you reply sometimes and you make more posts about us than literally anything wrestling related?


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> Do you realize how crazy it makes you look that you tell people you have us on ignore, but you reply sometimes and you make more posts about us than literally anything wrestling related?


He hasn't blocked any of us. He loves it.


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

AEW have too many of these wannabe joke wrestlers. WWE often has one or two at any given time: Jamison, Dink, Gillberg, Zach Gowen, Hornswoggle, James Ellsworth.

AEW has at least 5, at the same time, working competitive matches. Insanity.


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## Wridacule (Aug 23, 2018)

To say aew doesn't care about its fans is silly. You guys are always so quick to say it doesn't appeal to casuals, so who else is there to cater to?

In fact, I'd say the issue is that they care too much. They just want to look progressive and all inclusive. The issue isnt sonny's gimmick or attire, it's his in ring ability. If pac were gay..! Or if they wanted omega to carry that banner..?! Then I'd be all for it. Push them to the moon with rainbow flag in tow. But sonny in the ring ain't it. He moves like a woman... and I dont mean in the sense that he's feminine, but he's slow and less athletic... they backed the wrong guy to fly that flag of progression


----------



## CtrlAltDel (Aug 9, 2016)

If they are going to hand out title shots, Orange Cassidy deserve it over Sonny Kiss


----------



## Jokerface17 (Feb 22, 2016)

So while everyone is bitching about them announcing that Sonny Kiss is answering an OPEN CHALLENGE...

What’s Archer doing next week?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> He hasn't blocked any of us. He loves it.


But what he claims is even more hilarious. He claims he blocks people. logs out of his account, then reads what they write anyway! Mind blowing stuff!

His response here is pretty fun too, basically "You guys will hate everything and always claim to be right!. PS: I do not like this match either"

So now he agrees this match is dumb and should not happen, but we are the "haters."


----------



## Boldgerg (Apr 2, 2017)

Yeah, he's fucking horrific. Unbearably cringe inducing. I honestly thought he was just going to compete in the women's division.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Honestly, I would not hate this as much if I felt they were actually planning stuff out. It all just feels thrown together at the last minute because Cody needs an opponent.

One of the most valid complaints about the WWE for decades has been how much they devalued the Intercontinental title. It went from being used to help make the future top guys to being used as a crutch/prop for someone in a rut and then when they lost the title, they would disappear back into directionless WWE creative obscurity.

I was hoping Cody wanted to change that and go back to what something like the IC or US titles used to be about. He carries himself as a serious guy (usually), and has good matches with Archer and even Hager, but then flounders back to having longer than needed matches with jobbers. Maybe the talent roster is just not good enough to support this. If Cody has a competitive 10-15 minute match with you and then you go back to being a comedy jobber the next week, does it really help elevate you? It just seems to be week to week random stuff and not anything like a long term character arc for anyone, hence why I often call this WWE-lite.


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!! (Apr 13, 2011)

I like the idea of giving the lesser known talents big match TV time. TNT title has had great challengers so far. The title was intended to give the people we don't know big TV time. 

I understand it's obvious none of these people are taking the title off Cody. If you don't like that aspect, I don't blame you. From a pure wrestling standpoint, this title has been a dream.

Also, I don't like Sunny Kiss and I don't get why he has a title shot. They're acknowledging anyone can answer the open challenge, but only 1 person per week. Are people not wanting to challenge Cody? Make an angle where people are getting pissed them accepting the challenge is getting ignored. Why is Archer not challenging Cody, the only man to beat him?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

All Elite Wanking said:


> Also, I don't like Sunny Kiss and I don't get why he has a title shot. They're acknowledging anyone can answer the open challenge, but only 1 person per week. Are people not wanting to challenge Cody? Make an angle where people are getting pissed them accepting the challenge is getting ignored. Why is Archer not challenging Cody, the only man to beat him?


Because if people got pissed and argued over the championship it'd make the championship seem valuable and AEW wouldn't want that.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

All Elite Wanking said:


> I like the idea of giving the lesser known talents big match TV time. TNT title has had great challengers so far. The title was intended to give the people we don't know big TV time.
> 
> I understand it's obvious none of these people are taking the title off Cody. If you don't like that aspect, I don't blame you. From a pure wrestling standpoint, this title has been a dream.
> 
> Also, I don't like Sunny Kiss and I don't get why he has a title shot. They're acknowledging anyone can answer the open challenge, but only 1 person per week. Are people not wanting to challenge Cody? Make an angle where people are getting pissed them accepting the challenge is getting ignored. Why is Archer not challenging Cody, the only man to beat him?


Because these guys don’t know how to book, and this is Cody still butthurt that someone, somewhere told him he wasn’t a great in-ring performer.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

I think that Kiss is only getting the title shot to promote their "inclusiveness" and nothing more. He certainly hasn't earned it.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lorromire said:


> Wouldn't be the first time someone has so might as well put it out there.
> It was always a midcard belt. If it's not the top title then by default it's a midcard belt.
> When I think of Roddy, I think of good promos and good wrestling in the midcard. To casuals, I'm sure they love the fact that Roddy won the IC title, as kayfabe accomplishments (especially back in the early 90's) meant a lot to the audience.


This is getting a little off-topic, but the IC Title used to headline its own house show circuit. The champ used to be responsible for drawing. The WWF, at some points, has had three different loops on the go. For example, Honky Tonk Man used to actually draw as the IC Champion. It wasn’t really “mid-card” as you put it.

When I think of Roddy Piper, I think of one of the best promos ever who was largely responsible for being the heel to shine up Hogan and help launch WrestleMania; not so much “mid-card.” But to each their own. 



bdon said:


> Because these guys don’t know how to book, and this is Cody still butthurt that someone, somewhere told him he wasn’t a great in-ring performer.


More and more, you are proving to be correct on this. I apologise for ever doubting you.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

I don't see the problem with this. Sonny is a good talent as is Cody. Should be a nice match.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Wood said:


> This is getting a little off-topic, but the IC Title used to headline its own house show circuit. The champ used to be responsible for drawing. The WWF, at some points, has had three different loops on the go. For example, Honky Tonk Man used to actually draw as the IC Champion. It wasn’t really “mid-card” as you put it.


Just wanted to comment on this because I probably won't have the chance to again but how strong was the WWE at that time that they could send Hogan to a big city with the WWF Title and do a sell out and then go to a medium sized city with a Honky Tonk Man or a Warrior or whoever the IC Champion was at the time and either sell out or go close and then go to a small town in a small building for the C Show and usually do pretty decent there also.

You're correct that the IC Title being on the line in your town was exciting at the time. With AEW and it's TNT Title I don't think I'd be excited if it was defended in my backyard let alone at my local arena.


----------



## Dark Emperor (Jul 31, 2007)

*ALL **ELITE** WRESTLING WILL BE A SERIOUS **SPORTS-LIKE** PRESENTATION! 🤣 *


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I think the IC Title’s loss of lustre really started in 1995 with Jeff Jarrett. Not a major knock on Jarrett or anything, but he just wasn’t over enough to carry it. It bounced around a lot that year, possibly because Diesel was struggling as WWF Champion, with 1995 being such a notoriously bad year. It was basically Jarrett, Razor Ramon and Shawn Michaels refusing to drop it. Then you had that brief Dean Douglas reign.

Goldust would get it in ‘96, and he was a gimmick. He won it from himself, Ahmed Johnson got it. Marc Mero, Hunter, Rocky Maivia’s first reign. This feels more like the TNT Title. Austin would get it, but honestly, it always felt like the belt never really found itself again.

Now the championship that is not on Raw is basically the IC Title. It actually fills that role, in that it headlines the B shows. Braun Strowman is, for all intents and purposes, the current IC Champion, having won it off Goldberg, who won it off Bray, who took the spot from Kofi, who won it from Bryan, Styles, Jinder, Orton, etc.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Dark Emperor said:


> *ALL **ELITE** WRESTLING WILL BE A SERIOUS **SPORTS-LIKE** PRESENTATION! 🤣 *
> 
> 
> View attachment 88624


Is that my man Tommy Dreamer? Please tell me it isn't. It looks like him...


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Is that my man Tommy Dreamer? Please tell me it isn't. It looks like him...


That’s him from the Casino Battle Royale. First AEW match in company history.


----------



## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

eh, ultimately its a mid card title. Aint worth flipping out over.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Wood said:


> That’s him from the Casino Battle Royale. First AEW match in company history.


Fuck sake Tommy


----------



## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Is that my man Tommy Dreamer? Please tell me it isn't. It looks like him...


Yea dreamer had to put over all that shit in the match. Was even the first to put over the kicks


----------



## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Any rational Booker would have put sonny kiss against spears this past week on dark and Brian Pillman jr up against cody next week and even in a loss pillman wouldn't be hurt by the loss but instead they book pillman to be jobbed out by a glorified jobber in spears which does pillman no favours and kiss faces cody and cody will drag the match out which will make him look weak, fantastic booking all round.

These open invitational TNT title defences are so piss poor compared to cena's spell of doing them


----------



## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

I dont like the third rate Pimpinela Escarlata gimmick, but Sonny isnt without some talent

I like that a TV title is defended against all comers

Yes I expect Cody to win but a good showing and whats more a good match might make us all think a bit better off Sonny Kiss? Maybe this is the actual plan ?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Wood said:


> This is getting a little off-topic, but the IC Title used to headline its own house show circuit. The champ used to be responsible for drawing. The WWF, at some points, has had three different loops on the go. For example, Honky Tonk Man used to actually draw as the IC Champion. It wasn’t really “mid-card” as you put it.
> 
> When I think of Roddy Piper, I think of one of the best promos ever who was largely responsible for being the heel to shine up Hogan and help launch WrestleMania; not so much “mid-card.” But to each their own.
> 
> ...


Don’t apologize. You actually wanted to be positive and hopeful.

I just have a keen sense of reading one’s character, and Cody is cutthroat as they come.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

There’s something psychoanalytical to say about the placement of his tattoo.


----------



## ripcitydisciple (Dec 18, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I wonder if the AEW apologists have noticed slowly and slowly week by week that the "AEW haters" group is growing and growing. I first started regularly posting here in late February and at the time it was just me, Wood, Cult, Lheurch and Hammerstone who spoke about issues with the product. You now have a thread (The show thread) where many of the former apologists are speaking about how bad the product is starting to get.
> 
> Going off that it must be hitting regular people as well. It's all well and good to say confidently that AEW will last forever but will it? Remember in the span of just 5 years TNA Wrestling went from being the hottest thing on Spike TV and having one of the most stacked rosters in wrestling to getting booted off Spike TV and having their ratings drop from 1.2 million to about 500,000 a week.
> 
> And this happened to TNA who were actually intelligent enough to hire people who know how to run a wrestling promotion and have runs on the board in doing so. AEW is lead by four wrestlers looking out for themselves and a rich kid wanting to copy angles from 20 years ago.


Well, Speaking for only my self, I like what I like and I don't give a fuck what you or anyone else thinks I should or shouldn't like. I have said from DAY 1, that the majority of those who don't like AEW is because it isn't the wrestling they had envisioned they wanted to watch, with every match/storyline catering to their personal desires. THIS IS NOT AEWWE/F GET OVER IT AND ACCEPT IT.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

If this was 1999 and we had the same character no one would fucking care. Hes a talent on the roster and the point of the TNT belt is to go through everyone on the roster being a defending champion.


----------



## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

ripcitydisciple said:


> *Well, Speaking for only my self, I like what I like and I don't give a fuck what you or anyone else thinks I should or shouldn't like.*


How can you say that, but then tell people this:



ripcitydisciple said:


> THIS IS NOT AEWWE/F GET OVER IT AND ACCEPT IT.


Maybe they like what they like and don't give a fuck what you think they should get over and accept?


----------



## JBLGOAT (Mar 24, 2014)

I hate midcard belts.

SJW pandering is a proven ratings killler.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

I don't see the issue since it's an open challenge title at this point. I agree it hasn't had an inspired challenger list. But it's certainly in line with the defenses he's been having. Maybe once he's run through the "I can have a match with any random guy and make them look good" phase we'll get more serious challengers.


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

Lorromire said:


> Because that's what wrestling is about in kayfabe. The belts. Bragging rights over the other contenders at your level. It's wrestling 101, Wood. You know this.
> 
> When? Idk, I'm not a historian. They help loads of people.
> A small example list:
> ...


Personally I don’t think QT will ever be at a level where he should be on dynamite unless it’s a one sided squash. Any time given to him is time wasted as it could’ve been used on somebody better. AEW dark exists for people like him, cutler, jobbers. They should Create a Dark title and give all the jobbers something to fight over and keep them off dynamite.

I like the idea of the dark order but not the execution. If Brodie had beat Moxley then it would’ve given the dark order some desperately needed credibility, but he lost and disappeared from the main event scene straight after, similar to Archer, and the dark order went back to being a failure, Losers lead by a loser. Why did he not use their main strength being their numbers to beat Moxley, it’s poor booking. I also really don’t see what Colt cabana is going to add to the dark order that they don’t already have.

With regards to the big tag teams being out i’m pretty sure after DON only Lucha bros were missing, they still had Jurassic express/pnp/private party/best friends/B&B/Young bucks/SCU, surely the greatest tag team roster in the world wouldn’t be derailed by 1 team missing.

I actually think AEWs plan at the moment is to flood dynamite with jobbers so they can keep the main storylines on hold for as long as possible and keep the main talents away from each other. It’s a dangerous tactic because people are switching off and may never come back.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

Sonny Kiss is an embarrassment to wrestling. It's one thing to be a gay wrestler as I know there are plenty but it's another to act as flamboyant as he does. He embarrasses the AEW product.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Is that my man Tommy Dreamer? Please tell me it isn't. It looks like him...


I believe that yes, that is Tommy Dreamer that Sonny Kiss is giving a stinkface to.

I've been trying to change my username from "elidrakefan76" to something else because Eli is getting a little too flamboyant for my taste and I think he's coming out as gay. I'm straight so I don't want to be associated with gay wrestlers.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

elidrakefan76 said:


> Sonny Kiss is an embarrassment to wrestling. It's one thing to be a gay wrestler as I know there are plenty but it's another to act as flamboyant as he does. He embarrasses the AEW product.



This is why wrestling is terrible. People like you bitching about stupid shit that really dont matter when you got Young bucks no selling entire wrestling matches


----------



## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

elidrakefan76 said:


> Sonny Kiss is an embarrassment to wrestling. It's one thing to be a gay wrestler as I know there are plenty but it's another to act as flamboyant as he does. He embarrasses the AEW product.


You must've really hated old school gold dust if you think thats too flamboyant.


----------



## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

Sonny Kiss as a challenger to Cody’s title is fine. If anyone cares to remember the old NWA/WCW TV title, the champion would usually defend his title against jobbers and mid-carders, and then defend it against top talents on the big shows.

And Sonny Kiss is just the modern version of effeminate wrestlers like Adrian Street and fat Adrian Adonis. He may be more flamboyant, but he’s also more talented ring-wise.

Give the match a chance. Or don’t. I’ll be watching.


----------



## Mister Sinister (Aug 7, 2013)

All the talent out there-- EC3, Miro, Austin Aries-- and they put Sonny Kiss on television and in a championship match. They are pushing a social/political agenda instead of putting talent on television that can not only hold onto the audience but actually expand it.

Why not a match with Sky or Fenix to try to attract black and Latino viewers? Sonny Kiss' sexualism is going to send those viewers away for the rest of the fucking year if not permanently.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

Hephaesteus said:


> You must've really hated old school gold dust if you think thats too flamboyant.


Old school Goldust did some things that I didn't agree with but at least he wore a full bodysuit. Who wants to see a transvestite in booty shorts giving other men stinkfaces?


----------



## SAMCRO (Jul 10, 2006)

And just watch Sonny will take Cody to the limit and Cody will just barely be able to beat him, and he'll get pyro and celebrate as if he's at the end of WM and just defeated The Rock or something.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

not a fan of him getting a shot, but there will be more opportunities for guys like Fenix, Pentagon, Sky, Kaz


----------



## Derek30 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ugh. I try. I try. I‘ve been as positive as possible in regards to AEW. The DON momentum after Moxley debuted was incredible. There was a buzz in the air leading into the TV debut. While they have done some nice things along the way, I feel like there is so much lacking. A lot of these shows feel like something thrown together at the last minute.

There is a good deal of talent here but I feel like they have swung and missed on a lot of them.


----------



## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

The Wood said:


> This is getting a little off-topic, but the IC Title used to headline its own house show circuit. The champ used to be responsible for drawing. The WWF, at some points, has had three different loops on the go. For example, Honky Tonk Man used to actually draw as the IC Champion. It wasn’t really “mid-card” as you put it.


That doesn't change it from being a midcard spotlight. That just means the championship was treated a fuck load better than it is today.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

TK will push on that progressive shit until he is blue in the face. Even if the ratings falls below TNA, he'll push for it till he goes down with the ship. I would not be shocked if that is what kills AEW in the end.


----------



## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

Question, technically the ic belt holder is the no.1 contender at wwe, is that the same rules here?


----------



## Chandler Ward (May 10, 2015)

I love AEW. I wouldn't consider myself an "AEW Apologist" but I do support the company. However, I think Cody defending the AEW TNT Championship against Sonny Kiss is pretty pathetic. Sonny Kiss doesn't deserve a title shot, especially if Joey Janela (Who is more talented than Sonny Kiss IMO) just got beat down by Lance Archer. I think AEW has struggled a little since the Pandemic but they haven't been bad. All promotions are struggling a little since the pandemic. Wrestling is better with a crowd. I think NXT got the win with Great American Bash over Fyter Fest, but I do think Fight For The Fallen will be damn good. I think AEW is gonna bounce back, especially if AEW All Out this year is as good as I think it's gonna be.


----------



## Dab00g (Jul 7, 2020)

Sonny Kiss is actually entertaining unlike Darby tumblr girl Allin


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

elidrakefan76 said:


> I believe that yes, that is Tommy Dreamer that Sonny Kiss is giving a stinkface to.
> 
> I've been trying to change my username from "elidrakefan76" to something else because Eli is getting a little too flamboyant for my taste and I think he's coming out as gay. I'm straight so I don't want to be associated with gay wrestlers.


Kinda screwed if you are on a free account. Also what the hell with that last part? Are you just really devout or do gay people scare ya?


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

elidrakefan76 said:


> I believe that yes, that is Tommy Dreamer that Sonny Kiss is giving a stinkface to.
> 
> I've been trying to change my username from "elidrakefan76" to something else because Eli is getting a little too flamboyant for my taste and I think he's coming out as gay. I'm straight so I don't want to be associated with gay wrestlers.


lol what? Pretty sure Eli Drake not only has a girlfriend but he's a Conservative. He pretty much left Impact cause they wanted him to lose to Tessa and he didn't feel comfortable wrestling a woman, he says it wasn't realistic enough. He must be laughing now after what Tessa did to them.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Jazminator said:


> And Sonny Kiss is just the modern version of effeminate wrestlers like Adrian Street and fat Adrian Adonis. He may be more flamboyant, *but he’s also more talented ring-wise.*


Sorry, what?


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

elidrakefan76 said:


> I believe that yes, that is Tommy Dreamer that Sonny Kiss is giving a stinkface to.
> 
> I've been trying to change my username from "elidrakefan76" to something else because Eli is getting a little too flamboyant for my taste and I think he's coming out as gay. I'm straight so I don't want to be associated with gay wrestlers.


the homophobia is strong in this one.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Definition of Technician said:


> the homophobia is strong in this one.


Personally I just don't get how he thinks Eli Drake is flamboyant. Dude is an alpha male and not flamboyant at all.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

ripcitydisciple said:


> Well, Speaking for only my self, I like what I like and I don't give a fuck what you or anyone else thinks I should or shouldn't like. I have said from DAY 1, that the majority of those who don't like AEW is because it isn't the wrestling they had envisioned they wanted to watch, with every match/storyline catering to their personal desires. THIS IS NOT AEWWE/F GET OVER IT AND ACCEPT IT.


People want something different to WWE. Silly gimmicks is classic WWE. #AEWWE



shandcraig said:


> If this was 1999 and we had the same character no one would fucking care. Hes a talent on the roster and the point of the TNT belt is to go through everyone on the roster being a defending champion.
> 
> This guy would not be signed in 1999. Lenny & Lodi were, like, 220lbs a piece.





Lorromire said:


> That doesn't change it from being a midcard spotlight. That just means the championship was treated a fuck load better than it is today.


I think we don't agree on what the mid-card is. 



Wolf Mark said:


> lol what? Pretty sure Eli Drake not only has a girlfriend but he's a Conservative. He pretty much left Impact cause they wanted him to lose to Tessa and he didn't feel comfortable wrestling a woman, he says it wasn't realistic enough. He must be laughing now after what Tessa did to them.


I'm not sure him deciding not to wrestle a woman makes him a conservative. If he is conservative, okay, but it sounds like you are linking the two. 

Also, what the actual fucking fuck at someone saying that Sonny Kiss is more talented in the ring than Adrian Adonis and Adrian Street.


----------



## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

The Wood said:


> I think we don't agree on what the mid-card is.


Probably not.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

On the topic: I don't see an issue here. I haven't see much of Sonny Kiss, literally it was those vignettes with Janela when I first started noticing him, I feel like I was introduced to this character last month, and now he's getting a random title opportunity, just like a lot of people are/will who aren't ranked. It's basically Cody saying "If you feel your ranking is unfair here's your chance to prove", Cody wins and continues this until a high ranked/credible opponent challenges him.



Chip Chipperson said:


> Personally I just don't get how he thinks Eli Drake is flamboyant. Dude is an alpha male and not flamboyant at all.


Yeah Eli has a good look and it's smart he refused to job to Tessa.. but just imagine no longer being a fan of someone just because they're gay and you don't want to be associated with them. What an insecure little homophobe 😂


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Kiss has earned some exposure. A TNT title match? Maybe not but def deserves a match.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

elidrakefan76 said:


> Old school Goldust did some things that I didn't agree with but at least he wore a full bodysuit. Who wants to see a transvestite in booty shorts giving other men stinkfaces?





The Wood said:


> People want something different to WWE. Silly gimmicks is classic WWE. #AEWWE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's one of the reasons why I'm a big fan of Drake. I thought his views were similar to mine but then I see his instagram lately and he's wearing skimpy outfits like gay guys wear. If a person is gay then that's their business but I'm straight so I don't want to be lumped in with them.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

There's nothing about being straight that precludes you from hanging out with gay guys. Or wearing a skimpy outfit if you've got the goods to show it off.


----------



## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

elidrakefan76 said:


> That's one of the reasons why I'm a big fan of Drake. I thought his views were similar to mine but then I see his instagram lately and *he's wearing skimpy outfits like gay guys wear*.


You're literally on a forum about a show/sport that features dudes in underwear 24/7.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Aren't the anti gay conservatives usually the ones caught in hotels with the barely legal teenage hookers?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Firefromthegods said:


> Aren't the anti gay conservatives usually the ones caught in hotels with the barely legal teenage hookers?


People who really despise gay people are usually heavily religious or closeted homosexuals.


----------



## Wridacule (Aug 23, 2018)

elidrakefan76 said:


> I believe that yes, that is Tommy Dreamer that Sonny Kiss is giving a stinkface to.
> 
> I've been trying to change my username from "elidrakefan76" to something else because Eli is getting a little too flamboyant for my taste and I think he's coming out as gay. I'm straight so I don't want to be associated with gay wrestlers.


As a kid watching wcw my favorite wrestler was Kanyon. After he passed I found out he was gay, and I did feel weird about it for a second. Then I looked to my left at my sleeping wife and realized I was being silly. 

I liked kanyon because every time I saw him he did I move I had never seen before. I didn't like him cuz I was attracted to him. You can like a gay wrestler without being gay. It's not like they're coming to the ring and making out with guys on camera.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Wridacule said:


> As a kid watching wcw my favorite wrestler was Kanyon. After he passed I found out he was gay, and I did feel weird about it for a second. Then I looked to my left at my sleeping wife and realized I was being silly.
> 
> I liked kanyon because every time I saw him he did I move I had never seen before. I didn't like him cuz I was attracted to him. You can like a gay wrestler without being gay. It's not like they're coming to the ring and making out with guys on camera.


Kanyon was the man.


----------



## Wridacule (Aug 23, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Kanyon was the man.



Fucking right! Being young I was initially drawn in by the mask. But even after he took it off I was still so drawn to his ring work. He just did shit different. Even something as simple as the sharpshooter. He'd find a way to put his own twist on things


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Kanyon was the man.


He was a trainer or at least a major influence on Brian Cage as well. He was amazing in the ring and so far ahead of his time. Coincidentally apart of one of my all time favorite stables next to the triple threat, the jersey triad with Dallas and bam bam


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Wridacule said:


> As a kid watching wcw my favorite wrestler was Kanyon. After he passed I found out he was gay, and I did feel weird about it for a second. Then I looked to my left at my sleeping wife and realized I was being silly.
> 
> I liked kanyon because every time I saw him he did I move I had never seen before. I didn't like him cuz I was attracted to him. You can like a gay wrestler without being gay. It's not like they're coming to the ring and making out with guys on camera.


Good on you for doing some assessment there. This thread is making me realise how much bullshit people have to wade through when it comes to dealing with homosexuality. Like, why would it matter if he came out and did make out with people? You don't have to make out with him, haha. But I get that how people are raised in different parts of the world can give you some weird ideas. I'm glad you found peace and abandon with your Kanyon love. 

I liked Kanyon too. I do think he was a bit too much with the "innovation" a lot of the time, but he was a solid talent that was busting ass out there (not a reference to his sex life). He actually had some good size, good charisma and was technically proficient. His "Alliance MVP" gimmick was one of the few things that actually got half-way over in 2001. He had that rough injury that sounded like it got REALLY bad just reading up on it, and when he returned he never quite felt the same. It's a shame, because he could have been...something. Maybe not a World Champion or anything, but a solid player/coach on a more notable level. He'd certainly not have been an insult to either the IC or US Championship.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> People who really despise gay people are usually heavily religious or closeted homosexuals.


I don't like a lot of gay people because I know how many operate trying to constantly undermine/get straight men into trouble or trying to convert us to be gay like they are and I'll leave it at that. I'm not a closeted homosexual nor heavily religious so there goes your theory on that. I'm not sexually attracted to any man (even men who dress in drag) whatsoever. I guess that makes me a bad person or an oddball here in 2020 but I don't care.



Wridacule said:


> Fucking right! Being young I was initially drawn in by the mask. But even after he took it off I was still so drawn to his ring work. He just did shit different. Even something as simple as the sharpshooter. He'd find a way to put his own twist on things


I didn't mind Kanyon either because though he was gay, he never went around overly flaunting it and just did his thing in the ring. He was actually a pretty cool gay guy.

"Who betta than Kanyon? Nobody!"


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Is there really an army of gay dudes out to marginalize and convert straight guys in America? You'd think the media or at least trump will be all over that. Instead of building a wall he should have built a giant conversion camp to protect straight men from them insidious gays


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Firefromthegods said:


> Is there really an army of gay dudes out to marginalize and convert straight guys in America? You'd think the media or at least trump will be all over that. Instead of building a wall he should have built a giant conversion camp to protect straight men from them insidious gays


There are a fair few out there who are super into the idea of "turning" straight men. I've had a few try and turn me and they're usually pretty full on about it.

Most gay people I've met though? They've been cool.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

A lot of you people really need a reality check. Upset over a feminine man character having one shot at a weekly defending championship belt designed to face everyone. Yet we have Lee the geek getting world tittle shots. This is the same people that i think has a hard on for everything being only sport oriented like NJPW. Reality is North american wrestling community for the mos part like variety. We dont matter in here because when theres a good size house of AEW paying fans they all cheer for people like Sonny for a break from the intense action for some fun entertainment.

Its one fucking shot for again a belt that is designed to be defend on every tv event weekly, Who cares. 99 percent of these matches are squash matches because we know Cody is not losing.

probably the same people that think wins and loses still matter.

Who cares


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> There are a fair few out there who are super into the idea of "turning" straight men. I've had a few try and turn me and they're usually pretty full on about it.
> 
> Most gay people I've met though? They've been cool.


I don't mind the gay people that just do their own thing and don't try to force their lifestyle on other people. But I've been hit on by at least a handful of gay men within the past year alone when I've been out and it isn't a pleasant experience when I'm a single, straight guy looking to meet a decent woman. I know there are people who say that being hit on by gay men means I'm handsome but I don't buy it. I'm not really a pretty boy, I have a masculine build, I'm pretty tall, I don't dress in pastel colors and so on so gay men should be thinking that I'm into women and leaving me alone.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Chip Chipperson said:


> There are a fair few out there who are super into the idea of "turning" straight men. I've had a few try and turn me and they're usually pretty full on about it.
> 
> Most gay people I've met though? They've been cool.


Really? Man I need to get out more. I thought that was a myth made up by idiots to denounce homosexuality

Eli my dude wearing bright clothes doesn't make you gay. Sucking penis makes you gay. Wearing bright clothes makes you metrosexual. Straight but you give a shit about looking good and being presentable


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

elidrakefan76 said:


> I don't mind the gay people that just do their own thing and don't try to force their lifestyle on other people. But I've been hit on by at least a handful of gay men within the past year alone when I've been out and it isn't a pleasant experience when I'm a single, straight guy looking to meet a decent woman. I know there are people who say that being hit on by gay men means I'm handsome but I don't buy it. I'm not really a pretty boy, I have a masculine build, I'm pretty tall, I don't dress in pastel colors and so on so gay men should be thinking that I'm into women and leaving me alone.



lol you really dont get it. You assume gay men are only attracted to other feminine colorful dressing men. Simply far from the truth. 

Just like not every man likes a girl with a bunch of work done like fake tits.


----------



## Wridacule (Aug 23, 2018)

The Wood said:


> Good on you for doing some assessment there. This thread is making me realise how much bullshit people have to wade through when it comes to dealing with homosexuality. Like, why would it matter if he came out and did make out with people? You don't have to make out with him, haha. But I get that how people are raised in different parts of the world can give you some weird ideas. I'm glad you found peace and abandon with your Kanyon love.
> 
> I liked Kanyon too. I do think he was a bit too much with the "innovation" a lot of the time, but he was a solid talent that was busting ass out there (not a reference to his sex life). He actually had some good size, good charisma and was technically proficient. His "Alliance MVP" gimmick was one of the few things that actually got half-way over in 2001. He had that rough injury that sounded like it got REALLY bad just reading up on it, and when he returned he never quite felt the same. It's a shame, because he could have been...something. Maybe not a World Champion or anything, but a solid player/coach on a more notable level. He'd certainly not have been an insult to either the IC or US Championship.


No judgement on two guys kissing. Just not my flavor of kink. I wouldn't have any interest in seeing two old ladies kiss either. Not to say I have a problem with either. Again, just not my cup of tea


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

shandcraig said:


> lol you really dont get it. You assume gay men are only attracted to other feminine colorful dressing men. Simply far from the truth.
> 
> Just like not every man likes a girl with a bunch of work done like fake tits.


You're missing the point. My point is that as a single, straight guy who is looking for a decent woman, I don't want gay men coming up and hitting on me. If it just happened once in a blue moon then ok fine, I view it as harmless. But a good number of gay men seem to be getting very brazen nowadays whether it's because they're egged on by the media or whatever. Then people wonder why some gay men get beaten up. Often times, it isn't for no reason.

To the guy who doesn't have a problem with 2 guys kissing, the first time I see 2 men open mouth kissing on any wrestling program is the last time that I'll watch that program, AEW included. People can call me a bigot or whatever, I can care less. I'm entitled to my views just like other people are entitled to theirs. I don't have to watch it if I don't want to.


----------



## sweepdaleg (Jan 30, 2014)

I was another huge Kanyon fan. I am a move mark and he had some of the coolest moves. The who better than kanyon was awesome too. Randomly diamond cutting people. He was doing the "out of nowhere angle" way before Orton. When I found out he was gay, didn't care one bit. The character he portrayed was cool. That is why I liked him. Cool side note, Cage was trained by him.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

sweepdaleg said:


> I was another huge Kanyon fan. I am a move mark and he had some of the coolest moves. The who better than kanyon was awesome too. Randomly diamond cutting people. He was doing the "out of nowhere angle" way before Orton. When I found out he was gay, didn't care one bit. The character he portrayed was cool. That is why I liked him. Cool side note, Cage was trained by him.


I was a pretty big fan of Kanyon when he was in WCW. His Mortis character was cool but he was better after he just became himself.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

elidrakefan76 said:


> You're missing the point. My point is that as a single, straight guy who is looking for a decent woman, I don't want gay men coming up and hitting on me. If it just happened once in a blue moon then ok fine, I view it as harmless. But a good number of gay men seem to be getting very brazen nowadays whether it's because they're egged on by the media or whatever. Then people wonder why some gay men get beaten up. Often times, it isn't for no reason.
> 
> To the guy who doesn't have a problem with 2 guys kissing, the first time I see 2 men open mouth kissing on any wrestling program is the last time that I'll watch that program, AEW included. People can call me a bigot or whatever, I can care less. I'm entitled to my views just like other people are entitled to theirs. I don't have to watch it if I don't want to.



Whatever your personal problems are keep it to yourself. Who cares if a gay man has a wrestling match thats the point

Insecurity in here


----------



## Chris22 (Jan 7, 2010)

As a gay guy, i always always just lmao at some of the comments i read on here whenever a gay topic or issue gets brought up.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

shandcraig said:


> Whatever your personal problems are keep it to yourself. Who cares if a gay man has a wrestling match thats the point


I don't care if there are gay men having wrestling matches as that's been happening for years but I will boycott AEW, WWE or whatever if I see 2 men open mouth kissing on the program. With the way society is headed, it's bound to happen in the future and when it does, that's when I will no longer watch. I wouldn't be surprised at all if AEW has Kiss make out with Joey Janela. That's when I will switch over to watch NXT on Wednesday nights.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

elidrakefan76 said:


> I don't care if there are gay men having wrestling matches as that's been happening for years but I will boycott AEW, WWE or whatever if I see 2 men open mouth kissing on the program. With the way society is headed, it's bound to happen in the future and when it does, that's when I will no longer watch. I wouldn't be surprised at all if AEW has Kiss make out with Joey Janela. That's when I will switch over to watch NXT on Wednesday nights.



The fact we're talking about just a match and you contiue to ramble about your personal life and other ramblings un related to one match explains your insecurity. We can end this here thanks


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

elidrakefan76 said:


> I don't care if there are gay men having wrestling matches as that's been happening for years but I will boycott AEW, WWE or whatever if I see 2 men open mouth kissing on the program. With the way society is headed, it's bound to happen in the future and when it does, that's when I will no longer watch. I wouldn't be surprised at all if AEW has Kiss make out with Joey Janela. That's when I will switch over to watch NXT on Wednesday nights.


I'd be willing to bet 5 dollars that AEW couldn't even book a "Two men fall in love" angle without botching it. Would probably just immediately hot shot open mouth kiss and then forget about it the following week.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'd be willing to bet 5 dollars that AEW couldn't even book a "Two men fall in love" angle without botching it. Would probably just immediately hot shot open mouth kiss and then forget about it the following week.



Dont feed the bear lol


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

Some people may laugh at my views and say something like: "But you're watching WRESTLING where guys are rolling around with each other in their underwear and you're saying that you're not gay?" but the fact is that there are plenty of straight people who also watch wrestling and not all wrestlers wrestle in trunks. In fact, a lot of them now wear pants or long tights. There are gay wrestlers but there are also plenty of straight wrestlers, too. 

I watch wrestling mostly for the combat aspect of it and the promo's which you don't get in MMA which I'm also a fan of.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

And the Rambles Continue. This is turning into a golden episode of jerry springer 😂 😂


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

I don't want to get banned so I'll stop commenting on the subject and change to something else.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

elidrakefan76 said:


> Some people may laugh at my views and say something like: "But you're watching WRESTLING where guys are rolling around with each other in their underwear and you're saying that you're not gay?" but the fact is that there are plenty of straight people who also watch wrestling and not all wrestlers wrestle in trunks. In fact, a lot of them now wear pants or long tights. There are gay wrestlers but there are also plenty of straight wrestlers, too.
> 
> I watch wrestling mostly for the combat aspect of it and the promo's which you don't get in MMA which I'm also a fan of.


All this talk about gay people unprompted and you constantly reiterating that you're not gay is making you sound gay bruh.

Maybe you're just mad at Sonny because he's flamboyantly gay and you're more of a bear. Both types are okay, the gay community are very accepting I hear.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> All this talk about gay people unprompted and you constantly reiterating that you're not gay is making you sound gay bruh.
> 
> Maybe you're just mad at Sonny because he's flamboyantly gay and you're more of a bear. Both types are okay, the gay community are very accepting I hear.


That's because coming from a straight guy, Sonny Kiss is just that insulting to watch on national television. I don't want wrestling to start to be known as "a gay man's program" when it has always been for people of all walks of life. I've been a fan for years and I don't want to have to stop watching wrestling because it leans too much to the gay side which I think it's starting to.

Maybe I just long back for the days of the Monday Night Wars from 1995-2001 or so back when wrestling was cool.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Chip Chipperson said:


> All this talk about gay people unprompted and you constantly reiterating that you're not gay is making you sound gay bruh.
> 
> Maybe you're just mad at Sonny because he's flamboyantly gay and you're more of a bear. Both types are okay, the gay community are very accepting I hear.


 stop feeding the bear lol


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

shandcraig said:


> stop feeding the bear lol


The bear is full now. I'll stop posting but I just wanted to get what I posted off my chest. I'm not the first person to rant on here and I won't be the last.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Some bears are big and strong and some bears are insecure


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## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

shandcraig said:


> Some bears are big and strong and some bears are insecure


No, some bears like me are masculine, grizzly-like bears and other bears like you are teddy bears who are too sensitive.


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

La Parka said:


> The lady doth protest too much, methinks.


Yes, shandcraig does protest too much.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

elidrakefan76 said:


> Yes, shandcraig does protest too much.



You're literally protesting against a match because of someones sexuality, Insecurty hypocrite. Just stop before you make a fool of yourself and get banned. Now calling people sensitive? Another ignorant statement. You can have a good product and still have gay men,lesbians and whatever else.

So this is not about anyone being senstive but pure ignorance. So you can have fun being upset with others but i aint wasting time on this nonsense


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

shandcraig said:


> You're literally protesting against a match because of someones sexuality, Insecurty hypocrite. Just stop before you make a fool of yourself and get banned. Now calling people sensitive? Another ignorant statement. You can have a good product and still have gay men,lesbians and whatever else.
> 
> So this is not about anyone being senstive but pure ignorance. So you can have fun being upset with others but i aint wasting time on this nonsense


If you like to watch transvestites in booty shorts make a mockery of wrestling then you keep watching. But as I mentioned, if the nonsense like that continues or gets worse I will change the channel.


----------



## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

I find this whole thing a head scratcher, the last time we saw sonny kiss on a aew show he was being draped over archer's shoulder like he had been brutally beaten backstage and then thrown onto janella like a he was complete after thought, that's the next contender for the TNT title? That is shocking booking and in no way elevates the prestige of the title.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

Dizzie said:


> I find this whole thing a head scratcher, the last time we saw sonny kiss on a aew show he was being draped over archer's shoulder like he had been brutally beaten backstage and then thrown onto janella like a he was complete after thought, that's the next contender for the TNT title? That is shocking booking and in no way elevates the prestige of the title.


As I mentioned before, he is only getting the title shot because AEW wants to look inclusive. Nothing more.


----------



## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

The rest of the show looks pretty good with Mox/Cage and especially FTR/Lucha Bros, but this match should not be happening at all. I could've thought of 50 guys more worthy than Sonny Kiss, who is a Lower card guy that should be getting occasional wins in dark.

Pillman - you saw the hype surrounding his match on dark. I think that was a wasted opportunity to put him in this match, which would've created even more buzz.

Archer - Why not give Archer his rematch here. The guy has been in the company nearly 5 months and hasn't had a match that wasn't a squash apart from Cody at double or nothing.

Brodie Lee - Give him a shot, would be a good match and Brodie is a credible enough opponent for you to think he could win. Have Colt inadvertently cost Brodie the match or something, which not only gives us a good match but developes a storyline.

Page - He's not on the show and it's worthy of a special Dynamite, again Page is someone that you think can legitimately win and a loss here could further his split with the Elite.

MJF - Rematch from Revolution. Revisit this blood feud, which has somehow been forgotten about. Have Wardlow cost MJF the match inadvertently or Jungle Boy comes out, many ways you could book this to keep MJF strong in defeat.

Matt Hardy - I mean why not, he's a former US champ, former TNA champ and has more tag team title Reigns than I can remember. Having him get a TNT title show certainly wouldn't hurt building that title up.

Allin - He could return from his "injury" in this match

Dustin - Heck Dustin might want another title run and challenge his brother. Potential MOTY contender like they had at Double or nothing last year.

And yet we get Sonny Kiss, what the hell is Cody playing at?? heck Spears, Trent, Sabian would've all been far better options as well. I feel this is just very lazy booking this match. Hopefully it's not a competitive match and is over within 5 mins.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

taker1986 said:


> The rest of the show looks pretty good with Mox/Cage and especially FTR/Lucha Bros, but this match should not be happening at all. I could've thought of 50 guys more worthy than Sonny Kiss, who is a Lower card guy that should be getting occasional wins in dark.
> 
> Pillman - you saw the hype surrounding his match on dark. I think that was a wasted opportunity to put him in this match, which would've created even more buzz.
> 
> ...


Rather than having him debut and lose on Dark, they should have had Brian Pillman Jr. come out of the crowd and challenge Cody for the TNT title next week. They must not have any plans for Pillman Jr. to have him lose his debut on Dark to Shawn Spears relatively quickly.


----------



## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

elidrakefan76 said:


> Rather than having him debut and lose on Dark, they should have had Brian Pillman Jr. come out of the crowd and challenge Cody for the TNT title next week. They must not have any plans for Pillman Jr. to have him lose his debut on Dark to Shawn Spears relatively quickly.


Twitter completely blew up when his match on dark was announced, so you could imagine what the hype would've been like had they announced him as Cody's challenger, instead of the (understandably) negative reactions we're seeing from Sonny Kiss being announced.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

taker1986 said:


> Twitter completely blew up when his match on dark was announced, so you could imagine what the hype would've been like had they announced him as Cody's challenger, instead of the (understandably) negative reactions we're seeing from Sonny Kiss being announced.


Exactly. If they were going to have Pillman Jr. lose his debut match, it should have been against a star like Cody and it should have been a competitive match. To have him lose relatively quick against a mid-carder like Shawn Spears tells me that they don't have much planned for him or that he'll only be in AEW for a little while.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

This match needs to be 5 minutes tops. They've already negated Jungle Boy going 15 minutes with Cody by having an injured Marq Quen go nearly the same length.


----------



## Metalhead1 (Jan 21, 2019)

Reeks of political correctness.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

How is a gay man having 1 match desperately being politically correct? See this is the problem
People crying are no different than the people wanting a chance to be accepted crying. This shouldn't be an issue or a converstion. Plenty of straight men played feminine charcters over the years with zero issue

All it reeks in here is insecurity because people shouldnt give a shit.

You guys really need more going on in your lives

Rikishi completley rubbing his fat gross smelly ass all over your face is ok but no not this dude move.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

shandcraig said:


> How is a gay man having 1 match desperately being politically correct? See this is the problem
> People crying are no different than the people wanting a chance to be accepted crying. This shouldn't be an issue or a converstion. Plenty of straight men played feminine charcters over the years with zero issue
> 
> All it reeks in here is insecurity because people shouldnt give a shit.
> ...


It isn't because he's gay, it's because he hasn't won any matches at all on Dynamite and he is getting a TNT title shot. It doesn't make any sense. People should be receiving title shots based on merit not on sexual orientation. That's likely the only reason why a tag team guy like Marc Quen got a title shot as well. It was because he's gay.


----------



## Mister Sinister (Aug 7, 2013)

There is a difference between a man who has a private same-sex life and a wrestler whose whole gimmick is that he is a femboy who oozes femininity and dresses more sexual than any of the women on the roster.

This is a rot at the core of what pro wrestling is supposed to be-- the toughest, most macho men in the world that the audience is supposed to believe would kick the average Joe's ass. NXT is winning because it is macho. AEW is losing because it is emasculated, and it doesn't value women's wrestling (last week, Shida v Ford was their best draw, and naturally they haven't tried to sign Tessa Blanchard and instead put Nyla Rose on television this week to flounder some more).


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

I loved Champagne Kanyon. To this day, my brother and I reference a random Juventud Guerrera comment when he called him “Shampoo” due to the broken English. Lmao


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Lol TNT belt is cycling through everyone on the roster and suddenly its an issue but its not because of his choices.

Have fine crying in here about nothing boys. Its one match so i hope you your lives will be ok again after next weeks episode

Breathe


----------



## Mister Sinister (Aug 7, 2013)

shandcraig said:


> Lol TNT belt is cycling through everyone on the roster and suddenly its an issue but its not because of his choices.
> 
> Have fine crying in here about nothing boys. Its one match so i hope you your lives will be ok again after next weeks episode
> 
> Breathe


You underestimate that it's a constant chipping away of the audience. You can build an audience one week at a time, ten thousand homes at a time, or you can destroy your audience one week at a time.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

Mister Sinister said:


> You underestimate that it's a constant chipping away of the audience. You can build an audience one week at a time, ten thousand homes at a time, or you can destroy your audience one week at a time.


Oh, but they'll draw in more of the LGBTQ audience though. Maybe that's their new target demographic.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts (Feb 9, 2020)

The TNT Champion's head is about to go up Sonny Kiss' ass and if you complain you're gonna get called a homophobe. Amazing plan.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

El Hammerstone said:


> This match needs to be 5 minutes tops. They've already negated Jungle Boy going 15 minutes with Cody by having an injured Marq Quen go nearly the same length.


AEW is inconsistent with hierarchies and things like that.
You are right making in this point. I had the same problem when Spears kicked out of 2 Cross Rhodes but Archer lost to 2 CR a few weeks later. So, I am supposed to think Spears can take more punishment than Archer?

They made a big deal about Jungle Boy lasting 10min with Jericho when nearly every AEW match is 10min+.

Marq Quen should have been beat in less than 10min if they want to put Jungle Boy over more. If Cody really wants to test himself, they would try to have the best possible match within 6-9min.


----------



## Metalhead1 (Jan 21, 2019)

shandcraig said:


> How is a gay man having 1 match desperately being politically correct? See this is the problem
> People crying are no different than the people wanting a chance to be accepted crying. This shouldn't be an issue or a converstion. Plenty of straight men played feminine charcters over the years with zero issue
> 
> All it reeks in here is insecurity because people shouldnt give a shit.
> ...


Shit, don't get your panties in a bunch. I uttered only a few words and you get so hysterical, like I've committed some cardinal sin. It's actually quite funny, and I am laughing about it. I guess that's what you expect from somebody with nearly 10,000 posts on an internet chat room. You talk about crying. I uttered a mere handful of words and you're crying and bitching up a storm. Again, it's pretty funny.

Somebody else put it best. It's not because he is gay, it's because he hasn't won any matches on Dynamite. A title shot should be based on merit, not on sexual orientation. For instance, I have no problem with Nyla Rose being champion; she's a great wrestler with a very good gimmick and excellent interviewing ability, and has plenty of credibility. But having somebody all of a sudden getting a title shot with no wins under their belt does indeed reek of political correctness.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Metalhead1 said:


> Shit, don't get your panties in a bunch. I uttered only a few words and you get so hysterical, like I've committed some cardinal sin. It's actually quite funny, and I am laughing about it. I guess that's what you expect from somebody with nearly 10,000 posts on an internet chat room. You talk about crying. I uttered a mere handful of words and you're crying and bitching up a storm. Again, it's pretty funny.
> 
> Somebody else put it best. It's not because he is gay, it's because he hasn't won any matches on Dynamite. A title shot should be based on merit, not on sexual orientation. For instance, I have no problem with Nyla Rose being champion; she's a great wrestler with a very good gimmick and excellent interviewing ability, and has plenty of credibility. But having somebody all of a sudden getting a title shot with no wins under their belt does indeed reek of political correctness.


Hes lying,He spent half the day telling us his personal issues with it but you chose to not read it. Im very much calm,Im just proving a point that people are all of the sudden upset with a guy getting a shot and making it clear why.

Whats the point of a belt that is meant to be defend to your entire roster just to have people complain

All the excuses people are coming up with are sad.We know its simply not true because before him we have had plenty of people get the shot that are in no better position and we all know wins and loses have nothing to do with it. So safe your excuses. This is literately a pointless thread with upset insecure people so enjoy

Look at his post below me,He makes my point very clear.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

AuthorOfPosts said:


> The TNT Champion's head is about to go up Sonny Kiss' ass and if you complain you're gonna get called a homophobe. Amazing plan.


I'm calling it now. There will be a spot in the match where It's gonna be stinkface city for Cody. He'll probably enjoy it, too.


----------



## Metalhead1 (Jan 21, 2019)

shandcraig said:


> Hes lying,He spent half the day telling us his personal issues with it but you chose to not read it. Im very much calm,Im just proving a point that people are all of the sudden upset with a guy getting a shot and making it clear why.
> 
> Whats the point of a belt that is meant to be defend to your entire roster just to have people complain
> 
> ...


You're calm, huh? Yet you respond to my simple 4-word post with hysterical accusations about insecurity. Sounds like you're not calm at all and just making a big deal over nothing. Again, slinging rambling accusations on an anonymous internet forum is pretty funny, not to mention juvenile.

Maybe I didn't read all of the previous postings because frankly, I don't devote a ton of time to reading pages upon pages of an internet forum. So you got me there.

But honestly, this is not a big deal to me. I just uttered 4-words. I am not going to vehemently lambaste Sonny Kiss getting a title shot. It is not a huge deal to me. He's actually a pretty entertaining wrestler and in an age where wrestling is often so damn boring, I'll take "entertaining" over "boring" any day of the week. I'll even be watching.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Metalhead1 said:


> You're calm, huh? Yet you respond to my simple 4-word post with hysterical accusations about insecurity. Sounds like you're not calm at all and just making a big deal over nothing. Again, slinging rambling accusations on an anonymous internet forum is pretty funny, not to mention juvenile.
> 
> Maybe I didn't read all of the previous postings because frankly, I don't devote a ton of time to reading pages upon pages of an internet forum. So you got me there.
> 
> But honestly, this is not a big deal to me. I just uttered 4-words. I am not going to vehemently lambaste Sonny Kiss getting a title shot. It is not a huge deal to me. He's actually a pretty entertaining wrestler and in an age where wrestling is often so damn boring, I'll take "entertaining" over "boring" any day of the week. I'll even be watching.



Good its not a big deal, so stop defending idiots that are upset with ignorant reasons. Prove your words


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

Going with the trend, I think that Joey Janela is next in line for a title shot.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts (Feb 9, 2020)

Femininity doesn't sell even when it comes to female wrestlers. So if it's normal for people to complain when the women are too girly and they want female badasses then I don't know why anyone's surprised that feminine men don't get taken seriously.

And if you're going to say "being a feminine man and being gay is the same thing so not taking feminine men seriously in a scripted combat sport must mean you're homophobic" then you're the one that's actually homophobic. You stereotyping clowns.


----------



## Metalhead1 (Jan 21, 2019)

shandcraig said:


> Good its not a big deal, so stop defending idiots that are upset with ignorant reasons. Prove your words


I agreed with one posting from one person. That's it. That's all I did. Stop getting bent out of shape. Bitching and moaning over an internet forum is just plain stupid.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Chris22 said:


> As a gay guy, i always always just lmao at some of the comments i read on here whenever a gay topic or issue gets brought up.


How many straight guys did you tempt this week? Even without drag? Do you think it would outnumber the viewers Cody vs. Sonny Kiss will lose next week?


----------



## spiderguy252000 (Aug 31, 2016)

Its. An. Open. Challenge.....

Literally a guy with 0 wins and losses challenged for it a couple of weeks ago. MAN the amount of ignorance and bigotry on here is mind blowing.


----------



## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

Most of y'all really need to find something productive to do in your lives. Close the forum and look for some positiveness. It's not healthy to constantly be negative over a show.

It's an open challenge and Sonny is getting an opportunity on Dynamite to wrestle when he doesn't all that often. Usually he is stuck on Dark, outside of a few tag team matches with Janela. Nothing to be so overly worked up about. 

Over 180 posts about Sonny Kiss getting a simple open challenge opportunity....


----------



## sweepdaleg (Jan 30, 2014)

I wonder what the tv rating will be for the match.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

The Wood said:


> People want something different to WWE. Silly gimmicks is classic WWE. #AEWWE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would think him being a Conservative, he would be less inclined to want to wrestle women than Liberals cause Conservatives have more traditional definitions of roles in mind. And if he was gay, he would have less of an issue with wrestling women. Maybe I'm wrong. 



> Also, what the actual fucking fuck at someone saying that Sonny Kiss is more talented in the ring than Adrian Adonis and Adrian Street.


Yea that is mind-boggling.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Firefromthegods said:


> Aren't the anti gay conservatives usually the ones caught in hotels with the barely legal teenage hookers?


That's more like the pastors and religious types. Some of them probably turn to religion trying to "cure" their desires. 

But not being a fan of gayness doesn't make you crave the cock, I don't think.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Wridacule said:


> As a kid watching wcw my favorite wrestler was Kanyon. After he passed I found out he was gay, and I did feel weird about it for a second. Then I looked to my left at my sleeping wife and realized I was being silly.
> 
> I liked kanyon because every time I saw him he did I move I had never seen before. I didn't like him cuz I was attracted to him. You can like a gay wrestler without being gay. It's not like they're coming to the ring and making out with guys on camera.


Kanyon was crazy creative and I have never seen a bad match out of him. He kept coming up with moves and gave them to other wrestlers, basically. It's sad what happened at the end, that his life had to end this way. In many ways I think the end of WCW was damaging to a lot of wrestlers who had great careers over there whether it's Kanyon, Mike Sanders, Vampiro, Shawn O'Haire, Lance Storm, Mike Awesome etc...The WWE could not take every guys and some others they didn't like and it was not easy for them to find work. Even Lance Storm who did go to the WWE, they used him but not in a great manner. I would not have been surprised if he would become WCW World Champ at some point if they had stayed in business. They really liked him as shown with all the titles he had and he was pretty over.


----------



## Marbar (Dec 20, 2019)

Since it's an open challenge is there a rule stating Nyla can't accept it? I would love to see her beat Cody's ass. Her win/loss record would warrant it since wins and losses mean something in AEW right? It's also much more believable to see lose a title shot with Cody rather than losing to a 90 pound Riho. She could be AEWs version of Chyna since the women's division is struggling with injuries right now.


----------



## Oracle (Nov 9, 2011)

Marbar said:


> Since it's an open challenge is there a rule stating Nyla can't accept it? I would love to see her beat Cody's ass. Her win/loss record would warrant it since wins and losses mean something in AEW right? It's also much more believable to see lose a title shot with Cody rather than losing to a 90 pound Riho. She could be AEWs version of Chyna since the women's division is struggling with injuries right now.


Nyla vs Cody would be the day i and im sure many others would stop watching


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

spiderguy252000 said:


> Its. An. Open. Challenge.....
> 
> Literally a guy with 0 wins and losses challenged for it a couple of weeks ago. MAN the amount of ignorance and bigotry on here is mind blowing.


Wrestling is about emphasis. It’s how you promote things. You can’t, in one tone, continuously shout “WATCH THIS! WATCH THIS! WATCH THIS!” and expect it to be effective. This is being promoted and emphasised as a major attraction. That’s why it has its own match graphic. This is not Cody issuing an open challenge and going five minutes with a believable contender with a shitty record as a surprise with no expectations. This is telling people “WATCH THIS!” and offering them a plate of something they really don’t want to eat.

That’s the issue. Not Kiss’s sexuality (with most people).

By the way, what is the purpose of having win-loss records if your championships are going to be defended in open challenges against unranked opponents anyway? This shit doesn’t make any sense, haha. It’s like giving every wrestler a grade to tier them up, but then announcing that anyone can fight anyone from any tier. Why do it in the first place? 



Wolf Mark said:


> Wolf Mark said:
> 
> 
> > I would think him being a Conservative, he would be less inclined to want to wrestle women than Liberals cause Conservatives have more traditional definitions of roles in mind. And if he was gay, he would have less of an issue with wrestling women. Maybe I'm wrong.
> ...


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Firefromthegods said:


> He was a trainer or at least a major influence on Brian Cage as well. He was amazing in the ring and so far ahead of his time. Coincidentally apart of one of my all time favorite stables next to the triple threat, the jersey triad with Dallas and bam bam


The Jersey Triad was sooo damn cool


----------



## Mister Sinister (Aug 7, 2013)

Southerner said:


> Most of y'all really need to find something productive to do in your lives. Close the forum and look for some positiveness. It's not healthy to constantly be negative over a show.
> 
> It's an open challenge and Sonny is getting an opportunity on Dynamite to wrestle when he doesn't all that often. Usually he is stuck on Dark, outside of a few tag team matches with Janela. Nothing to be so overly worked up about.
> 
> Over 180 posts about Sonny Kiss getting a simple open challenge opportunity....


The fans are telling the company on forums and social media why they are losing ratings. Much further and they will be down to 400k viewers. The loss of audience is not mysterious.



elidrakefan76 said:


> Oh, but they'll draw in more of the LGBTQ audience though. Maybe that's their new target demographic.


Not sure if serious.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I predicted a bottom of 420k for Dynamite. I thought it might take them a long time to get there, but they are about as close to that as they are that 1 million they are "closing in on."


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Some guys do not want to perpetuate violence against women...


In the case of Eli Drake, he seemed to have a real issue with it not being realistic and so forth.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Wolf Mark said:


> In the case of Eli Drake, he seemed to have a real issue with it not being realistic and so forth.


He'd be right. Most men could beat a woman in 30 seconds flat just by overpowering them. That's why the world is so against domestic violence.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

The Wood said:


> I predicted a bottom of 420k for Dynamite. I thought it might take them a long time to get there, but they are about as close to that as they are that 1 million they are "closing in on."


How did you calculate that? Study rating trends, surveys or just pull it out of your...


----------



## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Kiss wouldn't even be on aew if he didnt dress like a street hooker, he's here for the same reason stunt and nyla rose are there and that's because they want to look like some noble wrestling company that is all inclusive.


----------



## Metalhead1 (Jan 21, 2019)

RapShepard said:


> The Jersey Triad was sooo damn cool


Yes, I loved the Jersey Triad. The original NWO (Hall and Nash) were my favorites and the Jersey Triad were kind of like a B version of them.

I remember DDP and Kanyon saying that somebody's mother was so dumb that they tried to put the M&M's in alphabetical order. Haha. I really miss that unscripted innuendo.


----------



## Wridacule (Aug 23, 2018)

Wolf Mark said:


> Kanyon was crazy creative and I have never seen a bad match out of him. He kept coming up with moves and gave them to other wrestlers, basically. It's sad what happened at the end, that his life had to end this way. In many ways I think the end of WCW was damaging to a lot of wrestlers who had great careers over there whether it's Kanyon, Mike Sanders, Vampiro, Shawn O'Haire, Lance Storm, Mike Awesome etc...The WWE could not take every guys and some others they didn't like and it was not easy for them to find work. Even Lance Storm who did go to the WWE, they used him but not in a great manner. I would not have been surprised if he would become WCW World Champ at some point if they had stayed in business. They really liked him as shown with all the titles he had and he was pretty over.


Holy shit man dont get me started on Mike awesome. The matches with him and Tanaka..! I didn't think it were possible for big men to move like that. Its criminal how little a guy with that much talent achieved


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

Tony Khan obviously wants to corner the LGBTQ demographic.


Wridacule said:


> Holy shit man dont get me started on Mike awesome. The matches with him and Tanaka..! I didn't think it were possible for big men to move like that. Its criminal how little a guy with that much talent achieved


Those stiff Awesome vs. Tanaka matches back in ECW ruled. Both guys would really lay into each other especially with the chair shots. In today's wrestling, we have the weak chair shots from Seth Rollins and company.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

After what he did with his "raspberry underwear" (as described by Taz) on Dark to his opponent this past week, Michael Nakazawa could be the next in line to get a TNT title shot in AEW's continuing quest to be all-inclusive.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

elidrakefan76 said:


> In today's wrestling, we have the weak chair shots from Seth Rollins and company.


Yes, that's due to concussion. Personally I'd rather weak chair shots or protected chair shots as opposed to guys getting concussed every night and trying to work through it less than 24 hours later.


----------



## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

Dizzie said:


> Kiss wouldn't even be on aew if he didnt dress like a street hooker, he's here for the same reason stunt and nyla rose are there and that's because they want to look like some noble wrestling company that is all inclusive.


Nyla rose is a big woman, why wouldn't AEW sign her?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Hephaesteus said:


> Nyla rose is a big woman, why wouldn't AEW sign her?


Nyla Rose is transgender (Male to Female) hence why Dizzie is saying they hired her for inclusiveness.

Personally I think she's not part of the inclusiveness stuff though because they don't promote her as trans in the first place but I think most AEW fans know anyway.


----------



## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nyla Rose is transgender (Male to Female) hence why Dizzie is saying they hired her for inclusiveness.
> 
> Personally I think she's not part of the inclusiveness stuff though because they don't promote her as trans in the first place but I think most AEW fans know anyway.


Honestly, that's one of the things AEW does well. They don't run rl stuff into the ground. At this point on WWE, we'd have some heel calling her a man for cheap heat.

But yea regardless still weird to include Nyla in that group when she would've been signed on her own merits.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Metalhead1 said:


> Yes, I loved the Jersey Triad. The original NWO (Hall and Nash) were my favorites and the Jersey Triad were kind of like a B version of them.
> 
> I remember DDP and Kanyon saying that somebody's mother was so dumb that they tried to put the M&M's in alphabetical order. Haha. I really miss that unscripted innuendo.


I was super young at the time my favorite stables were probably 

Filthy Animals
Misfits in Action
Jersey Triad
3 Count

Shout out Team Canada Lance Storm used to piss 2nd grade me off lol


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Pippen94 said:


> How did you calculate that? Study rating trends, surveys or just pull it out of your...


I looked at the trends and correlated that information with PPV trends. It's far from perfect, but it's far from pulling it out of your ass. 



Hephaesteus said:


> Honestly, that's one of the things AEW does well. They don't run rl stuff into the ground. At this point on WWE, we'd have some heel calling her a man for cheap heat.
> 
> But yea regardless still weird to include Nyla in that group when she would've been signed on her own merits.


To be fair to WWE, they currently have a bunch of athletes considered POC representing the company. Keith Lee, Io Shirai and Santos Escobar from the NXT realm. Bayley, The New Day and Sasha Banks from SmackDown. Apollo Crews, Asuka and the Street Profits from Raw. And while Drew is white, he's the first British WWE Champion in history. I mean, that last one is far from a big PR thump or anything, but it's good for that market. To my knowledge, the WWE doesn't make a giant deal out of this. But if you're a black or Hispanic kid in the US, and you want to see heroes that sort of resemble you in wrestling -- at least as far as ethnic background goes -- you're going to look at the WWE first. 

I can understand why people would assume the company would be heavy-handed with this sort of thing though.


----------



## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

The Wood said:


> To be fair to WWE, they currently have a bunch of athletes considered POC representing the company. Keith Lee, Io Shirai and Santos Escobar from the NXT realm. Bayley, The New Day and Sasha Banks from SmackDown. Apollo Crews, Asuka and the Street Profits from Raw. And while Drew is white, he's the first British WWE Champion in history. I mean, that last one is far from a big PR thump or anything, but it's good for that market. To my knowledge, the WWE doesn't make a giant deal out of this. But if you're a black or Hispanic kid in the US, and you want to see heroes that sort of resemble you in wrestling -- at least as far as ethnic background goes -- you're going to look at the WWE first.
> 
> I can understand why people would assume the company would be heavy-handed with this sort of thing though.


Theres a reason why in her absence last year, some of the first draft of ppv posters featured Sasha. They make plenty of big deal about it, they've just gotten more subtle about it. 

But this particular thing is nothing to do with minorities and more to do with WWE getting heat in ways that they can get away. Hell, right now, Sheamus is getting heat by trying to get a recovering alcoholic to drink, do you really think wwe would be above having one of their wrestlers misgender another for heat?


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

The Wood said:


> I looked at the trends and correlated that information with PPV trends. It's far from perfect, but it's far from pulling it out of your ass.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For Hispanics, AEW has guys like Santana, Ortiz, Pentagon Jr. and Rey Fenix who are pretty cool to look up to but for blacks the pickings are slim with only Private Party, Pineapple Pete and Sonny Kiss to look up to so they are probably better off watching WWE.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

Hephaesteus said:


> Nyla rose is a big woman, why wouldn't AEW sign her?


Rose is built like she is probably because she used to be a man. I thought that Nia Jax in WWE was a transsexual, too, until I found out that she was born a woman and is likely as big as she is because of her Samoan bloodline.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS (Dec 14, 2016)

Lmao how do y'all turn a thread about a signal midcard match into an existential question about the future of the entire company. That's why your "criticisms" aren't taken seriously.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

As mentioned, Michael Nakazawa pulled a thong out of his tights and smeared it into his opponents' face before pinning him this past week on Dark. That seems to be the type of "inclusive" activity that Tony Khan, Cody and company like to see so look for Nakazawa to get a TNT title shot in the coming weeks as well.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Cody is on Twitter having an outburst because he thinks the reason people have a problem with Sonny Kiss getting a title shot is because he's gay. Oh boy.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Cody is on Twitter having an outburst because he thinks the reason people have a problem with Sonny Kiss getting a title shot is because he's gay. Oh boy.


To be fair in the post he's replying to the poster calls Sonny a ****** which is uncalled for. The point about Sonny being a joke and doing stupid shit like putting his ass in his opponents face is valid though.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Do you people understand what an open challenge is? This isn’t about who deserves what. It’s a motherfuckin OPEN CHALLENGE. I wouldn’t have picked Kiss either if I had my way, but holy shit some of you need to get a grip.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Cody is on Twitter having an outburst because he thinks the reason people have a problem with Sonny Kiss getting a title shot is because he's gay. Oh boy.


Dustin is getting involved now. Now, like Chip said, the guy straight up calling Sonny Kiss a ****** was a shitty thing to say and uncalled for, but no good can come of people in the positions that Cody and Dustin are in, publicly losing their shit over a bad twitter comment either.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1282452665608417281
The hell is wrong with people?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Do you people understand what an open challenge is? This isn’t about who deserves what. It’s a motherfuckin OPEN CHALLENGE. I wouldn’t have picked Kiss either if I had my way, but holy shit some of you need to get a grip.


I don't think anyone is arguing whether it makes sense from a booking perspective. Okay, in terms of kayfabe Cody welcomes all challengers so Sonny put his name down and his shot is this week. Cool.

The issue I'm having and I think everyone else is having is why they think it's a good idea from a non kayfabe perspective.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't think anyone is arguing whether it makes sense from a booking perspective. Okay, in terms of kayfabe Cody welcomes all challengers so Sonny put his name down and his shot is this week. Cool.
> 
> The issue I'm having and I think everyone else is having is why they think it's a good idea from a non kayfabe perspective.


If anything its probably just an attempt to try and make the LGBT community more aware of the AEW brand. Or to harbor goodwill.

Tegan Nox and Sonya Deville are both essentially campaigning/coming out on their social media’s for more awareness now that they are getting more air time, so I’m thinking Cody/Tony just want to appear to be inclusive of all people. WWE is doing the same.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1276938355691970561
It’s not ideal that it’s Sonny Kiss that we are watching though, so I do understand that side of the argument from the people who are against the match, but theres no need to bash the guy like the one person Cody responded to on Twitter. As men, we are all more accepting in seeing lesbians like Sonya Deville or Tegan Nox wrestle over homosexual men like Sonny Kiss, that's why there's an uproar by some.

It could very well backfire as far as live cable viewers tuning out, it most likely will actually, but to me it looks like they’re trying to make other audiences aware of the brand. The puppy bowl was probably done for the same reason, to try and draw in the younger female audience.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Chip Chipperson said:


> To be fair in the post he's replying to the poster calls Sonny a ****** which is uncalled for. The point about Sonny being a joke and doing stupid shit like putting his ass in his opponents face is valid though.


That part wasn’t included where I saw it, which is the trouble with replying to these sorts of things on Twitter — you often lose context and give people unwarranted attention. You HAVE to see that guy’s disgusting tweet to get Cody’s.

The AEW guys need to use social media a lot more wisely.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Do you people understand what an open challenge is? This isn’t about who deserves what. It’s a motherfuckin OPEN CHALLENGE. I wouldn’t have picked Kiss either if I had my way, but holy shit some of you need to get a grip.


Don’t you understand what a bad idea is? It’s a BAD IDEA. It’s not supposed to be good.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

The Wood said:


> Don’t you understand what a bad idea is? It’s a BAD IDEA. It’s not supposed to be good.


Why is it a bad idea in your opinion? I ask that as someone who doesn't want this match to happen either. Because of live cable viewers possibly tuning out? We have established that cable is not the entire audience. Or is it because he's gay and he does that stupid ass to face thing?

What if this is just another way of improving their brand image and being all-inclusive like every other company is essentially forced to do in the modern-day PC culture? Wouldn't that make it a good idea for one match on a stacked show on a free weekly Dynamite? Isn't it a good idea to let talents show their talents on TV even if you're not personally a fan of them? What's so wrong in letting him/her get a little shine? Kiss is a good athlete even though the gimmick is not normally accepted by most in the wrestling world.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

prosperwithdeen said:


> If anything its probably just an attempt to try and make the LGBT community more aware of the AEW brand. Or to harbor goodwill.
> 
> Tegan Nox and Sonya Deville are both essentially campaigning/coming out on their social media’s for more awareness now that they are getting more air time, so I’m thinking Cody/Tony just want to appear to be inclusive of all people. WWE is doing the same.
> 
> ...


That's not where there is an uproar by some at all. I don't know Sonya Deville or Tegan Nox but the issue I have with Sonny Kiss is that he just isn't an interesting character at all. He's a feminine gay guy who wrestles how creative of a gimmick is that? Now he's being rewarded despite being green and having a boring character by getting a match with Cody which is undeserved but AEW needs to appear inclusive so here he is.

Darren Young is gay and didn't make it his entire wrestling identity. Kanyon was gay and didn't make it his entire wrestling identity. Paige is bisexual and that wasn't her identity, Nyla is trans and that isn't her identity same with Patterson and plenty of other gay or bi sexual wrestlers.

I stand by what I said earlier in this thread. Sonny Kiss is on TV where his entire identity if that he's a feminine gay man. The gimmick is kind of offensive because surely there is more to him than just being gay but AEW won't let him show that. Plus, he isn't great in the ring which makes me not want to see him either. A far cry from "Elite"


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

The Wood said:


> Cody is on Twitter having an outburst because he thinks the reason people have a problem with Sonny Kiss getting a title shot is because he's gay. Oh boy.


A fan literally called Sonny the F word


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> That's not where there is an uproar by some at all. I don't know Sonya Deville or Tegan Nox but the issue I have with Sonny Kiss is that he just isn't an interesting character at all. He's a feminine gay guy who wrestles how creative of a gimmick is that? Now he's being rewarded despite being green and having a boring character by getting a match with Cody which is undeserved but AEW needs to appear inclusive so here he is.
> 
> Darren Young is gay and didn't make it his entire wrestling identity. Kanyon was gay and didn't make it his entire wrestling identity. Paige is bisexual and that wasn't her identity, Nyla is trans and that isn't her identity same with Patterson and plenty of other gay or bi sexual wrestlers.
> 
> I stand by what I said earlier in this thread. Sonny Kiss is on TV where his entire identity if that he's a feminine gay man. The gimmick is kind of offensive because surely there is more to him than just being gay but AEW won't let him show that. Plus, he isn't great in the ring which makes me not want to see him either. A far cry from "Elite"


I do agree that there isn't much to his character at all, they paired him up with Janela which kind of gave him an 80's vibe, but that is pretty much all they have done with him. He's literally just a gay guy that is athletic. The inclusivity is important though, in these social media days it's all about brand image and appearance or they will rip you apart. There are so many TV series here in the U.S now recasting roles and replacing people with African Americans after the protests. I can guarantee you that some LGBT people still won't be satisfied though. You'll have some blowing up Cody talking about how Kiss should have won. I'm also just looking at it as Cody needing another body to go over. If you're doing an open challenge you need bodies. 

He's already beaten: 
-Jungle Boy
-Jake Hager
-Ricky Starks
-Marc Quen
-I'm forgetting someone

I wouldn't have him running through people higher up on the card than Hager and Jungle Boy every week, he needs some lower-tiered opponents like Marc Quen some times. I would have picked someone else personally, but they decided on Kiss.


----------



## Buhalovski (Jul 24, 2015)

No one cares if someone is gay or not, Sony Kiss doesnt look like a legit threat and is making the whole thing looking like a joke. Same with Marko Stunt. Thats the main point of the complains, people on the internet always overreacting with stupid stuff.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

prosperwithdeen said:


> I do agree that there isn't much to his character at all, they paired him up with Janela which kind of gave him an 80's vibe, but that is pretty much all they have done with him. He's literally just a gay guy that is athletic. The inclusivity is important though, in these social media days it's all about brand image and appearance or they will rip you apart. There are so many TV series here in the U.S now recasting roles and replacing people with African Americans after the protests. I can guarantee you that some LGBT people still won't be satisfied though. You'll have some blowing up Cody talking about how Kiss should have won. I'm also just looking at it as Cody needing another body to go over. If you're doing an open challenge you need bodies.
> 
> He's already beaten:
> -Jungle Boy
> ...


Being inclusive is important but it's also important to portray gay people properly. Very few gay people make being gay their entire personality and to be honest most gay guys I've come across hate the flamboyant gay guys and feel it takes them back.

If AEW must have a gay wrestler on their roster why not book a gay wrestler who is also an ass kicker? Sure, he's gay but that's just an interesting tid bit because he's 10-0-0 in AEW and he's got a big match with Cody coming up at the PPV?

That's a gay person I'd like to see in AEW. Sonny Kiss being a walking stereotype does nothing for nobody.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Tsvetoslava said:


> No one cares if someone is gay or not, Sony Kiss doesnt look like a legit threat and is making the whole thing looking like a joke. Same with Marko Stunt. Thats the main point of the complains, people on the internet always overreacting with stupid stuff.


Someone called Kiss a f***** that’s not overreacting.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

NXT Only said:


> Someone called Kiss a f***** that’s not overreacting.


To be honest they should've just ignored it or blocked the person. It looks bad when people in management of an international wrestling company are having Twitter fights with people. Especially when the person probably only said it because he/she wanted attention.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Being inclusive is important but it's also important to portray gay people properly. Very few gay people make being gay their entire personality and to be honest most gay guys I've come across hate the flamboyant gay guys and feel it takes them back.
> 
> If AEW must have a gay wrestler on their roster why not book a gay wrestler who is also an ass kicker? Sure, he's gay but that's just an interesting tid bit because he's 10-0-0 in AEW and he's got a big match with Cody coming up at the PPV?
> 
> That's a gay person I'd like to see in AEW. Sonny Kiss being a walking stereotype does nothing for nobody.


They actually do kind of book him as tough and hard hitting on AEW Dark, without the record though, for whatever that’s worth. But I do see what you mean.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> To be fair in the post he's replying to the poster calls Sonny a ****** which is uncalled for. The point about Sonny being a joke and doing stupid shit like putting his ass in his opponents face is valid though.


Cody will have to realise that stuff like this will become an issue going forward because they are more interested in being progressive than putting on a competitive interesting product. TK would have to think what does he really want to be in this for? To have a successful wrestling show or catter to the vertue signaling people? To be seen as a "good citizen"? What is the point of it all? Certainly his family are not in American Football to do this. No they want to make money and win championships. So why does he want to use wrestling as an experiment for social issues? If he wants to push social issues, then say so and I'll do something else. I'll watch other TV shows, I'll watch more seasons of Peaky Blinders. If he is so after the 18 to 35 demo, especially the young men in that demo, who wants an agressive cool and badass product, well neither Sunny Kiss nor Jelly Nutella will do that for him. That won't get you ratings for that Demo. ECW did that, the Monday Night Wars did that. Great angles, badass characters, sexy women. That was it. Not goofy Indy characters and long boring spot fests.


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## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

When Marq Quen got a shot at the title it wasn’t about being inclusive, it was about giving a young talent a shot to show himself.

When Ricky Starks got a shot it wasnt about being inclusive it was about introducing a new talent.

However when Sonny Kiss gets a shot it’s about being inclusive and he doesn’t deserve it.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Wolf Mark said:


> Cody will have to realise that stuff like this will become an issue going forward because they are more interested in being progressive than putting on a competitive interesting product. TK would have to think what does he really want to be in this for? To have a successful wrestling show or catter to the vertue signaling people? To be seen as a "good citizen"? What is the point of it all? Certainly his family are not in American Football to do this. No they want to make money and win championships. So why does he want to use wrestling as an experiment for social issues? If he wants to push social issues, then say so and I'll do something else. I'll watch other TV shows, I'll watch more seasons of Peaky Blinders. If he is so after the 18 to 35 demo, especially the young men in that demo, who wants an agressive cool and badass product, well neither Sunny Kiss nor Jelly Nutella will do that for him. That won't get you ratings for that Demo. ECW did that, the Monday Night Wars did that. Great angles, badass characters, sexy women. That was it. Not goofy Indy characters and long boring spot fests.


He has to do both and take both as very important. It can’t be one or the other anymore or that will kill your company faster than anything. WWE has been doing this all inclusive catering to virtue signaling people thing for a while now because they have to. Wrestling and the world has changed drastically from when we were growing up. Besides, one Kiss match doesn’t equate to a bad or uncompetitive product as a whole. We still have 3 great matches on the same night that are all competitive. (Barring Stunt)


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Why is it a bad idea in your opinion? I ask that as someone who doesn't want this match to happen either. Because of live cable viewers possibly tuning out? We have established that cable is not the entire audience. Or is it because he's gay and he does that stupid ass to face thing?
> 
> What if this is just another way of improving their brand image and being all-inclusive like every other company is essentially forced to do in the modern-day PC culture? Wouldn't that make it a good idea for one match on a stacked show on a free weekly Dynamite? Isn't it a good idea to let talents show their talents on TV even if you're not personally a fan of them? What's so wrong in letting him/her get a little shine? Kiss is a good athlete even though the gimmick is not normally accepted by most in the wrestling world.


Because Sonny Kiss is a bad worker and isn't believable in the ring. This is more of the wonky philosophy that anybody can do this shit. And yes, live cable viewers will likely tune out, and no, no one gives a fuck if people are illegally streaming. And my god, could you be more pompous? We've established that AEW is a sinking ship. How does that sit with you? 

And the ass to face thing is stupid, but that's got nothing to do with sexuality, other than AEW making a joke out of "lol gayness," which isn't very progressive, in my opinion (maybe actual gay people will disagree and I'll be happy to hear them out). It's a sign that he doesn't really get what he's doing. And from what I know, a lot of people in the LGBTQ+ community would like representatives on their televisions that don't seem like such caricatures of their community. I don't know if they want to see it turned into a pro-wrestling gimmick. But maybe they do? I dunno.

I don't know how this improves their image. No, it isn't a good idea for one match on Dynamite. "Talent" is the operative word you misuse there. It's wrong letting him getting a little shine (and I use him because Cody identified him as a gay man) because it buries everything, just like Orange Cassidy did, just like Joey Janela does, etc. There's more to wrestling than being a good athlete. I can go to my local footy club and find a bunch of good athletes. It's the gimmick that's shit, and it's the work that's shit. 



NXT Only said:


> A fan literally called Sonny the F word


I already said I didn't see that and only saw Cody's reply, which was called posturing by that person (who is gay, ironically). He's giving that viewpoint way too much attention and should have blocked the person who said it. Calling it out when you see it in real life and letting your support for a community be known is one thing, but getting into jousts with homophobes is another.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

prosperwithdeen said:


> He has to do both and take both as very important. It can’t be one or the other anymore or that will kill your company faster than anything. WWE has been doing this all inclusive catering to virtue signaling people thing for a while now because they have to. Wrestling and the world has changed drastically from when we were growing up. Besides, one Kiss match doesn’t equate to a bad or uncompetitive product as a whole. We still have 3 great matches on the same night that are all competitive. (Barring Stunt)


Your post make little sense. He doesn't have to do that, he wants to do that for social points. And in the end, it will cost him cause that freaking big demo of guys that wants to watch a badass product will get sick of it.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

NXT Only said:


> When Marq Quen got a shot at the title it wasn’t about being inclusive, it was about giving a young talent a shot to show himself.
> 
> When Ricky Starks got a shot it wasnt about being inclusive it was about introducing a new talent.
> 
> However when Sonny Kiss gets a shot it’s about being inclusive and he doesn’t deserve it.


People shit all over the Marq Quen title shot also to be fair. Many called it for what it was which was AEW putting a black man on TV in a title match to try and show solidarity with BLM. People were cool with Starks because Starks is a good talent.


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## Buhalovski (Jul 24, 2015)

NXT Only said:


> Someone called Kiss a f***** that’s not overreacting.


Anonymous people on Twitter talking mad shit, whats so special about that?


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Because Sonny Kiss is a bad worker and isn't believable in the ring. This is more of the wonky philosophy that anybody can do this shit. And yes, live cable viewers will likely tune out, and no, no one gives a fuck if people are illegally streaming. And my god, could you be more pompous? We've established that AEW is a sinking ship. How does that sit with you?
> 
> And the ass to face thing is stupid, but that's got nothing to do with sexuality, other than AEW making a joke out of "lol gayness," which isn't very progressive, in my opinion (maybe actual gay people will disagree and I'll be happy to hear them out). It's a sign that he doesn't really get what he's doing. And from what I know, a lot of people in the LGBTQ+ community would like representatives on their televisions that don't seem like such caricatures of their community. I don't know if they want to see it turned into a pro-wrestling gimmick. But maybe they do? I dunno.
> 
> ...


I think a lot of gay people would agree with you cause they would see that this guy embarrasses them and that it's not logical that Sonny Kiss could be in a competitive match with someone like Cody or anybody else on the AEW roster. Same if Doctor Britt Baker fights a guy, regular women would see that it make no sense. If they really wanted to make homosexuality acceptable via Dynamite, have a guy that can have a match, that is credible as a fighter but who happens to be gay. Some would say that it's a diversity hire maybe but it would at least not be clownish.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Wolf Mark said:


> I think a lot of gay people would agree with you cause they would see that this guy embarrasses them and that it's not logical that Sonny Kiss could be in a competitive match with someone like Cody or anybody else on the AEW roster. Same if Doctor Britt Baker fights a guy, regular women would see that it make no sense. If they really wanted to make homosexuality acceptable via Dynamite, have a guy that can have a match, that is credible as a fighter but who happens to be gay. Some would say that it's a diversity hire maybe but it would at least not be clownish.


If the gay guy is good enough to be on TV though (Which should be what they hire based on anyway) then most people wouldn't see it as a diversity hire. If MJF for example happened to be a homosexual man in his personal life nobody would care or call him a diversity hire.

Although if they constantly rammed down our throats that he was gay that might change some opinions on the matter.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Now I really want to see a gay wrestler with the gimmick that he's so damn gay he turns every straight man in the audience that sees him gay. Like your stereotypical narcissist gimmick, but he plays the gay stereotype that EliDrakeFan is scared of and doesn't exist. The Gay Converter. Do a Million Dollar Man thing where he pulls men out of the audience and asks them if they're straight. They say yes and then he proceeds to take his shirt off and stare into their eyes until they make out with him. He can set society back about 20 years and that would be the heat. It would be slightly more subtle than Sonny Kiss ramming his ass into people's heads, because apparently that's a joke. And he'd at least look like he can beat people up. 

(No, I am not being serious -- this is just the sort of "progression" I am getting from the Sonny Kiss thing.)


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Now I really want to see a gay wrestler with the gimmick that he's so damn gay he turns every straight man in the audience that sees him gay. Like your stereotypical narcissist gimmick, but he plays the gay stereotype that EliDrakeFan is scared of and doesn't exist. The Gay Converter. Do a Million Dollar Man thing where he pulls men out of the audience and asks them if they're straight. They say yes and then he proceeds to take his shirt off and stare into their eyes until they make out with him. He can set society back about 20 years and that would be the heat. It would be slightly more subtle than Sonny Kiss ramming his ass into people's heads, because apparently that's a joke. And he'd at least look like he can beat people up.
> 
> (No, I am not being serious -- this is just the sort of "progression" I am getting from the Sonny Kiss thing.)


😂


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## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Tsvetoslava said:


> Anonymous people on Twitter talking mad shit, whats so special about that?


Exactly... its like they're going out of their way to find these random homophobic comments and acting as if homophobia is the reason why people don't want to see this match.


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## Mister Sinister (Aug 7, 2013)

Just look at the comments on AEW's Instagram post promoting the match. It tells you everything you need to know about why the ratings are down and fans not interested. Wrestling is for tough motherfuckers. Sonny is the opposite of tough motherfucker.


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## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Mister Sinister said:


> Just look at the comments on AEW's Instagram post promoting the match. It tells you everything you need to know about why the ratings are down and fans not interested. Wrestling is for tough motherfuckers. Sonny is the opposite of tough motherfucker.


It's true, sonny kiss comes across so feminine along with the look that it gives off a vibe of watching a inter-gender match


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## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> People shit all over the Marq Quen title shot also to be fair. Many called it for what it was which was AEW putting a black man on TV in a title match to try and show solidarity with BLM. People were cool with Starks because Starks is a good talent.


Starks is black. So with Marq Quen it’s because he’s black, with Starks it’s because he’s good? Why not just give Scorpio Sky a shot? He’s good and black too.

Come on man. AEW can’t even give a young talent a shot without it being an issue.

Hell in kayfabe it’s an open challenge and Kiss responded.


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## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

NXT Only said:


> Starks is black. So with Marq Quen it’s because he’s black, with Starks it’s because he’s good? Why not just give Scorpio Sky a shot? He’s good and black too.
> 
> Come on man. AEW can’t even give a young talent a shot without it being an issue.
> 
> Hell in kayfabe it’s an open challenge and Kiss responded.


Starks and Scorpio Sky are deserving black singles wrestlers. Marq Quen is strictly a tag team guy.


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## shadow_spinner (Dec 6, 2019)

Why are so many in this forum so homophobic? Like everything has to match your "masculine" tough guy vision of what wrestlign should be


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## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

shadow_spinner said:


> Why are so many in this forum so homophobic? Like everything has to match your "masculine" tough guy vision of what wrestlign should be


And what is your vision, a bunch of overly flamboyant homosexuals like Sonny Kiss rolling around with each other and giving other men stinkfaces?


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## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

A gay wrestler getting a title shot isn't the issue. The issue is an overly flamboyant one like Sonny Kiss who makes a mockery of wrestling and has a lot more losses than wins (does he even have 1 singles win in AEW?) getting one.


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## shadow_spinner (Dec 6, 2019)

elidrakefan76 said:


> And what is your vision, a bunch of overly flamboyant homosexuals like Sonny Kiss rolling around with each other and giving other men stinkfaces?


My vision is anyone is welcome, any gender race, lifestyles, sex whatever you are. I'm not one way or the other, any style should be welcome in my opinion.



elidrakefan76 said:


> A gay wrestler getting a title shot isn't the issue. The issue is an overly flamboyant one like Sonny Kiss who makes a mockery of wrestling and has a lot more losses than wins (does he even have 1 singles win in AEW?) getting one.


The rankings don't matter when it comes to the TNT title, its an open challenge, meaning anyone from anywhere (not WWE) can challenge for it, anyone in the locker room. The rankings are for the AEW title or tag titles, not the TNT title. That is how open challenges always worked in wrestling, anyone can answer the challenge.


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## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

shadow_spinner said:


> My vision is anyone is welcome, any gender race, lifestyles, sex whatever you are. I'm not one way or the other, any style should be welcome in my opinion.


Ok....does a wrestler's win/loss record not matter to you when determining whether they should receive an opportunity?


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## shadow_spinner (Dec 6, 2019)

elidrakefan76 said:


> Ok....does a wrestler's win/loss record not matter to you when determining whether they should receive an opportunity?


Read the second part of my post


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## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

elidrakefan76 said:


> And what is your vision, a bunch of overly flamboyant homosexuals like Sonny Kiss rolling around with each other and giving other men stinkfaces?


Glad this cancer of a person is gone bye bye you won't be missed.....no room in this world for straight up idiots like that.

I'm not overly excited about kiss getting a title shot I was not a fan at all......until he teamed with Janela and I had to admit they both worked well together and aside from the stinkface he has some unique offense.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lol, AEW has two singles titles and for one the rankings don’t matter. “Wins and losses matter...50% of the time.”


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Lol, AEW has two singles titles and for one the rankings don’t matter. “Wins and losses matter...50% of the time.”


I don't know if you follow NWA Power, but they have a rule for their tv title wherein if the belt is defended a certain amount of times, that guy will have earned a shot at the world title. Do you figure something like that would work if it were introduced for the TNT belt?


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I watched a couple of episodes. That idea with the TV Title is basically Cornette’s Beat the Champ TV Title. I like that sort of idea, but it all depends on place and timing. I think it’s a bit early in AEW with the way AEW is set up to bring it in right now specifically. You’ve got this brand new World Title, so you don’t really need this separate title to set up title shots for that title yet.


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## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

I’m going to be real. No straight guy is going to be interested in Kiss if twerking and doing splits is the only thing he’s got going for him. He could be straight with the exact same gimmick and the conclusion would be the same.

The fact that this is surprising to some people is bizarre to me. Some people are trying too hard.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Ricky starks is black? Excuse the ignorance I legit did not know that


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

shadow_spinner said:


> Why are so many in this forum so homophobic? Like everything has to match your "masculine" tough guy vision of what wrestlign should be


Because wrestling should be a masculine thing and should feature tough guys. 

Compare it to MMA or boxing. Can you imagine a boxer going into the boxing ring, shaking his ass, stink facing his opponent after every knock down and boxing in a pink sports bra with pink trunks? Can you imagine a UFC Champion defending his championship against someone like that?

Homophobic would be if we just point blank said we don't like Sonny because we're afraid of gay people. I don't like him because he isn't serious, he's a comedy wrestler, doesn't look the part and his entire identity is that he's flamboyantly gay. Don't care what he does in his outside life, don't care that he likes men the only thing I care about is if he's entertaining or not on my computer screen and the answer is no.

I beg everyone to please cut the "lulz if you don't like teh sonnyz then u r teh homophobic!!11!" stuff out. It's embarrassing for people to think like that.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Because wrestling should be a masculine thing and should feature tough guys.
> 
> Compare it to MMA or boxing. Can you imagine a boxer going into the boxing ring, shaking his ass, stink facing his opponent after every knock down and boxing in a pink sports bra with pink trunks? Can you imagine a UFC Champion defending his championship against someone like that?
> 
> ...


To be fair, boxers and mma fighters don't strip down to their man panties and oil up to look shiny on tv. So pro wrestling isn't all that masculine 

The issue with sonny is his too camp. And not in the fun Rico or Nathan lane in the birdcage way. In the you are trying to win a match why are you using ineffective moves wsy


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

If you think of wrestling as its own discipline, there is still fight psychology there. Modern guys are too wrapped up in anime, so they all have super-powers beyond their physical form and stand around growling while they all perform their special moves and taunts.

If you want to be camp, be camp. You can still throw down when the bell rings, instead of throwing your poise off to look like a fashion model.


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## karebear (Aug 20, 2018)

make him aew champ within the year, the publicity they would get would be huge and drive fans to watch the product, if they dont pull the trigger wwe will do instead soon enough seeing as they already went on a morale crusade with pushing women's wrestling.


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## stew mack (Apr 24, 2013)

Chip Chipperson said:


> All this talk about gay people unprompted and you constantly reiterating that you're not gay is making you sound gay bruh.
> *
> Maybe you're just mad at Sonny because he's flamboyantly gay and you're more of a bear. Both types are okay, the gay community are very accepting I hear.*


no they are fucking not lmfao. imagine being bi, or conservative on other issues than gay rights, or not femmy. the gay community may just be the most judgmental community on the planet oddly enough


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## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

I'd say BLM or Antifa top that


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