# *Possible Spoiler*This Female Allegedly Got Backstage Worker Fired In AEW(Possibly the new female signee)



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 (Dec 15, 2004)




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## Outlaw91 (Mar 31, 2011)

LOL is the Owen Hart Cup a women's thing?


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## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Outlaw91 said:


> LOL is the Owen Hart Cup a women's thing?


They have both men's and women's cups


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## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

Why is The Bunny been sacrificed in a squash match is the question that needs asking. God dammit.


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## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

Toni Storm? boring.


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## Gn1212 (May 17, 2012)

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


>


Lol, we now believe randos on Twitter?


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## Outlaw91 (Mar 31, 2011)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> They have both men's and women's cups


Thanks for the answer. 
But I still think it's a bad idea to have this for women too. They already have 2 singles belts and now also a cup, while their division is pretty shitty.


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## jobber81 (Oct 10, 2016)

AEW


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Has there been a good women’s tournament yet?


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## Fearless Viper (Apr 6, 2019)

Gonna need more source than that.


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## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

Toni Storm? Yawn. She’ll probably be on DARK with Ruby Soho in a month I guess.


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

the sad part about this is the loser going online posting drama about someone else. they should create a dirt shit website now, already qualified.


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## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

Ugh. Please don't let it be Toni.


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

'The Owen Hart Cup' is so random. Obviously Owen had zero to do with AEW and outside AEW's old mans division none of them ever had anything to do with Owen Hart.

A Brodie Lee Cup would actually make sense.


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## rich110991 (Aug 27, 2020)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> 'The Owen Hart Cup' is so random. Obviously Owen had zero to do with AEW and outside AEW's old mans division none of them ever had anything to do with Owen Hart.
> 
> A Brodie Lee Cup would actually make sense.


AEW = wrestling
Owen Hart = wrestling


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## Scuba Steve (Sep 29, 2021)

Doc said:


> Why is The Bunny been sacrificed in a squash match is the question that needs asking. God dammit.


Probably should not assume it is a squash. 

And I would guess they are choosing to use a trusted veteran in an attempt to help the new signee look as good as possible.


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## HookedOnThuganomics (10 mo ago)

Toni Storm 🥱


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> 'The Owen Hart Cup' is so random. Obviously Owen had zero to do with AEW and outside AEW's old mans division none of them ever had anything to do with Owen Hart.
> 
> A Brodie Lee Cup would actually make sense.


It definitely feels weird. Would be like the Giants or Bills having a Tom Brady day. Or even weirder, the CFL having one.


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## Smark1995 (Sep 18, 2020)

Southerner said:


> Ugh. Please don't let it be Toni.


Why? 
What's wrong with her?


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## Jedah (Jul 16, 2017)

Ugh.


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## French Connection (Apr 5, 2010)

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


>


There is just a word to describe Toni Storm : Salope!


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## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

Smark1995 said:


> Why?
> What's wrong with her?


Shes not interesting to me and seems very generic. There is nothing more to her than what she wears. Wouldn't really provide interest in the long run to AEW. Shes not good on the mic. and the only time that she is talked about is if shes losing in matches or someone likes her ass.


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## Kenny's Ghost (Nov 23, 2020)




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## hardcorewrasslin (Jun 29, 2016)

I heard Chris Benoit was backstage at rampage as well


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

I'd fire Orlando too


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## jobber81 (Oct 10, 2016)

French Connection said:


> There is just a word to describe Toni Storm : Salope!


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## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> 'The Owen Hart Cup' is so random. Obviously Owen had zero to do with AEW and outside AEW's old mans division none of them ever had anything to do with Owen Hart.
> 
> A Brodie Lee Cup would actually make sense.


Its a nice fuck you to the wwe since they wont ever be able to use his name for anything outside of past matches he was in.


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## Jnewt (Jan 12, 2018)

hardcorewrasslin said:


> I heard Chris Benoit was backstage at rampage as well


Can confirm. My friend had lunch with him and Eddie. They're gonna debut as a tag team.


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## TeamFlareZakk (Jul 15, 2020)




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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Edit


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> 'The Owen Hart Cup' is so random. Obviously Owen had zero to do with AEW and outside AEW's old mans division none of them ever had anything to do with Owen Hart.
> 
> A Brodie Lee Cup would actually make sense.


Your takes fucking suck…


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Outside of a random twitter user and that JDNY guy who always comes across like a bitchy douche who just rants all the time, is there anything else on this? Otherwise it's basically a non-story.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

For those that don’t understand why there is an Owen Cup, you need to come to grips with the fact that AEW as a promotion is nothing more than a love letter to wrestling. It’s why Tony spent the money to give Sting his deserved last hurrah. It’s why he spent the money to give Punk to the fans. It’s why he made sure to create enough trust between he and Martha Hart to ensure than Owen’s memory is kept alive and at the forefront of the history books, not to be fucking sent to the back to collect dust along with every other goddamn black eye that Vince McMahon decides he wants washed from HIS version of history.

This shit is a love letter to wrestling. Through and through. They may do the actual wrestling different than you remember, but it is all a love letter to the ways each performer and TK’s connected with the industry.

And it’s a goddamn glorious thing that Vince McMahon won’t make a dime off his name or likeness. And if that bothers you, then fuck you. Kick rocks.


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## Ultimo Duggan (Nov 19, 2021)

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Toni Storm? Yawn. She’ll probably be on DARK with Ruby Soho in a month I guess.


That didn’t happen Ruby or anyone unless their name is Tony Nese. Ruby has worked more TV and PPV than she has on YouTube. It isn’t by a large number or anything but she was hardly kept on YouTube since she debuted in AEW.


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## CaféDeChampion (Sep 27, 2021)

Doc said:


> Why is The Bunny been sacrificed in a squash match is the question that needs asking. God dammit.


This is what happens when you grab the brass ring and are the one to beat the competition in the ratings and show you can deliver a good match when the ones at the top don't want you and prefer to push a promo who is an average wrestler or someone solely for their look. 

The Bunny should be a manager for Cesaro, they would be perfect as forever midcarders who can't move up the card.


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## Ultimo Duggan (Nov 19, 2021)

Allie/The Bunny is mostly harmless with a fair amount of wins for someone who almost never defeated another pushed or signed member of the ladies’ roster.

The Bunny never beats anyone with a positive won/loss record though. She has beaten Red Velvet, Tay Conti and Big Swole in singles. Every other win she had was over an unsigned opponent or part of tags.


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## BestInTheWorld312 (Dec 31, 2013)

I fkin love the Bunny and honestly think shes one of the hottest chicks on the damn roster. Way better than Nyla Rose


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Ah baseless twitter drama


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

bdon said:


> For those that don’t understand why there is an Owen Cup, you need to come to grips with the fact that AEW as a promotion is nothing more than a love letter to wrestling. It’s why Tony spent the money to give Sting his deserved last hurrah. It’s why he spent the money to give Punk to the fans. It’s why he made sure to create enough trust between he and Martha Hart to ensure than Owen’s memory is kept alive and at the forefront of the history books, not to be fucking sent to the back to collect dust along with every other goddamn black eye that Vince McMahon decides he wants washed from HIS version of history.
> 
> This shit is a love letter to wrestling. Through and through. They may do the actual wrestling different than you remember, but it is all a love letter to the ways each performer and TK’s connected with the industry.
> 
> And it’s a goddamn glorious thing that Vince McMahon won’t make a dime off his name or likeness. And if that bothers you, then fuck you. Kick rocks.


Bro, are you Tony Khan's personal body guard?


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Dr. Middy said:


> Outside of a random twitter user and that JDNY guy who always comes across like a bitchy douche who just rants all the time, is there anything else on this? Otherwise it's basically a non-story.


I was pretty sure it was Toni Storm as soon as they announced the opponent is The Bunny. It makes sense to put them together because they are both hot blondes


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## Adapting (Jun 21, 2020)

Toni should just focus on her onlyfans and go nude on there.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Adapting said:


> Toni should just focus on her onlyfans and go nude on there.


Why not go nude on Dynamite? See what the limit is on TV-14 LOL

Maybe if they say "shit" 2 less times we can see a nipple.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Wolf Mark said:


> Bro, are you Tony Khan's personal body guard?


Not at all. I have my issues with the company, but I am not going to cry about goddamn Sting, fucking Owen Hart FINALLY being back in the wrestling mind, and whatever other stupid shit people want to cry about.

This company is going to always focus on doing what the fans want. That’s just how it is. This company is a love letter to wrestling. For better or worse, it is built on the backs of guys who are doing a passion project as an homage to the wrestling they fell in love with as kids. Whether it is exactly as they remember it or their execution of it missing the mark doesn’t matter: it’s a love letter to the wrestling that all of these guys grew up watching. Cornette’s depiction of them as cosplay isn’t far off, because they’re just a bunch of fans that are re-enacting their childhood and getting paid to do it.

Don’t like it? You’re more than welcome to not watch it like I do most segments.

Now…do you wanna blow me now or later?


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## hardcorewrasslin (Jun 29, 2016)

Jnewt said:


> Can confirm. My friend had lunch with him and Eddie. They're gonna debut as a tag team.


Vs The Dicks


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## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

Unless they are going to make out at some point in the match, I have no interest in Bunny-Toni Storm.


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## Jbardo37 (Aug 20, 2021)

There was no need to have a Owen cup for the women too, just feels like overkill.


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## TeamFlareZakk (Jul 15, 2020)

Geeee said:


> I was pretty sure it was Toni Storm as soon as they announced the opponent is The Bunny. It makes sense to put them together because they are both hot blondes


The "who's that wrestler" template actually looks like its Toni Storm! 

Toni Storm would definitely be a W for the women's division btw.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

As someone who has mutual friends with Toni Storm I will say I'm not surprised.


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## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> 'The Owen Hart Cup' is so random. Obviously Owen had zero to do with AEW and outside AEW's old mans division none of them ever had anything to do with Owen Hart.
> 
> A Brodie Lee Cup would actually make sense.





Hephaesteus said:


> Its a nice fuck you to the wwe since they wont ever be able to use his name for anything outside of past matches he was in.


It's cheap as fuck really. 

Gone out of their way to use a dead man's name to promote a pointless tournament where the winner will receive a main event match on Dark Elevation.


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## Don Draper's Ghost (Sep 22, 2021)

bdon said:


> For those that don’t understand why there is an Owen Cup, you need to come to grips with the fact that AEW as a promotion is nothing more than a love letter to wrestling. It’s why Tony spent the money to give Sting his deserved last hurrah. It’s why he spent the money to give Punk to the fans. It’s why he made sure to create enough trust between he and Martha Hart to ensure than Owen’s memory is kept alive and at the forefront of the history books, not to be fucking sent to the back to collect dust along with every other goddamn black eye that Vince McMahon decides he wants washed from HIS version of history.
> 
> This shit is a love letter to wrestling. Through and through. They may do the actual wrestling different than you remember, but it is all a love letter to the ways each performer and TK’s connected with the industry.
> 
> And it’s a goddamn glorious thing that Vince McMahon won’t make a dime off his name or likeness. And if that bothers you, then fuck you. Kick rocks.


Your posts are so fucking cringeworthy and bordering on psychotic, it's not a "love letter to wrestling" it's literally a way to top Vince in Tony's mind. Just like his desperate need to be thanked for paying female wrestlers awhile back this isn't coming from the goodness of his heart. It's for the positive p.r. nothing more nothing less.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> For those that don’t understand why there is an Owen Cup, you need to come to grips with the fact that AEW as a promotion is nothing more than a love letter to wrestling. It’s why Tony spent the money to give Sting his deserved last hurrah. It’s why he spent the money to give Punk to the fans. It’s why he made sure to create enough trust between he and Martha Hart to ensure than Owen’s memory is kept alive and at the forefront of the history books, not to be fucking sent to the back to collect dust along with every other goddamn black eye that Vince McMahon decides he wants washed from HIS version of history.
> 
> This shit is a love letter to wrestling. Through and through. They may do the actual wrestling different than you remember, but it is all a love letter to the ways each performer and TK’s connected with the industry.
> 
> And it’s a goddamn glorious thing that Vince McMahon won’t make a dime off his name or likeness. And if that bothers you, then fuck you. Kick rocks.


tell em Bdon!


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## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

Gn1212 said:


> Lol, we now believe randos on Twitter?


My thoughts exactly. The amount of shit I read on here that has no base at all makes this very hard to believe. There one bloke on here that seems adamant that Simon Miller is a dick backstage, despite having never met him and living on the opposite side of the world. 

If this is true above, that sucks. But there are so many questions to ask. Is it even real? If it is, what did the guy really do? What else has been left out here?


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## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

Doc said:


> It's cheap as fuck really.
> 
> Gone out of their way to use a dead man's name to promote a pointless tournament where the winner will receive a main event match on Dark Elevation.





Don Draper's Ghost said:


> Your posts are so fucking cringeworthy and bordering on psychotic, it's not a "love letter to wrestling" it's literally a way to top Vince in Tony's mind. Just like his desperate need to be thanked for paying female wrestlers awhile back this isn't coming from the goodness of his heart. It's for the positive p.r. nothing more nothing less.


Since you still don't get why they're doing this, here's the full press release:

AEW Press Release


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Did Toni really kick up a storm? Or is this just a storm in a teacup? 😁


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## DUD (Feb 21, 2021)

I always enjoy reading constructive criticism but I can't see I agree with it in this thread.

The Owen Cup is fine. I'm sure we will have different ideas on how they should present it, however based on what Tony Khan has said it appears there's been a lot of communication with Martha Hart to ensure both tournaments become a fitting tribute to a man who was taken from us far too young.

Toni Storm is also a fine addition. She's shown over the previous 5 or so years she's talented as both a face and a heel. She's recognised by the bulk of AEW fans and there's a gap in the female divison for somebody to really stand out of the pack at the minute so now is a good time for women to join AEW if she can reinvent herself.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> Your posts are so fucking cringeworthy and bordering on psychotic, it's not a "love letter to wrestling" it's literally a way to top Vince in Tony's mind. Just like his desperate need to be thanked for paying female wrestlers awhile back this isn't coming from the goodness of his heart. It's for the positive p.r. nothing more nothing less.


@Doc 

You two fine with the dusty classic if you think it's exploitative?


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## The Sheik (Jul 10, 2017)

Lol why are they still signing people.


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## I am Groot (May 2, 2017)

Getting fired because you couldn't find the bathroom... this company will die one day for stupid PR stunts like that. Unless he was harassing her that's totally different but damn that's such a stupid reason to fire someone. 
They didn't fire Sammy for his rape comments. It makes sense since those comments weren't directed at anyone in AEW. 
Why is this company still hiring... the roster is loaded as it is.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> Your posts are so fucking cringeworthy and bordering on psychotic, it's not a "love letter to wrestling" it's literally a way to top Vince in Tony's mind. Just like his desperate need to be thanked for paying female wrestlers awhile back this isn't coming from the goodness of his heart. It's for the positive p.r. nothing more nothing less.


I am not sure why you assume “a love letter to professional wrestling” means I believe Tony is doing it out of the kindness of his heart. Kobe Bryant played 20 ruthless years of basketball, determined to kill everyone and was mostly known as a motherfucking asshole.

Yet his entire game was built as a love letter to the GAME of basketball. An homage to everyone who came before him. Whether he did as well, worse, or better than them did not matter to him, only that he did it LIKE them. Or at least to the best of his abilities. His biggest detractors knock him for never being different or providing something “new”. 

For better or worse, guys like The Bucks, Adam Cole (I hate this fucking guy), FTR, Tony, and most everyone else on the roster do, in fact, perform some level of cosplay wrestling where they try to recreate their greatest memories for the audience that may not have lived those same memories.

I don’t agree with it, and I think their execution often times sucks. I get annoyed and even bored with the Bucks, fucking hate Adam Cole, wish Moxley would just wrestle a proper match sometimes, that FTR would stop trying to be an Arn and Tully Coverband, that Tony wouldn’t sign every over the hill guy from his high school days like Christian and Big Show, etc…

But ultimately, this is who they are. This is the big second company we got. It is far from perfect, but after 20 years away from wrestling, it was nice to come back and see that some people DO still remember what it was and what it can be.



Firefromthegods said:


> @Doc
> 
> You two fine with the dusty classic if you think it's exploitative?


Of course he is.


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

I Am Groot said:


> Why is this company still hiring... the roster is loaded as it is.


They can definitely put the brakes on hiring men's wrestlers at any point (though I'm on the belief, you should never stop trying to improve a roster, even if on a one in, one out basis). But the female roster is average and that's putting it kindly.

They need female talent and like many, I'm not excited by any of the names rumoured - but really, what top-of-the-line names are there besides Tessa, who AEW has avoided for three years?

Unless one of the big WWE or Stardom women (or someone like Miyu Yamashita from TJPW) become available, AEW is left picking up the released, the wantaways and trying to find diamonds in the rough. They should've signed Trish Adora, since she's a non-WWE wrestler with a good level of talent. They also missed Rok-C, who has joined WWE now.

I think Toni is a better pick-up than Ruby Soho as she's better in the ring without being amazing, and is better looking. She has experience and wrestled more matches for Stardom than WWE. But I'd be surprised if she's going to jumpstart the division.

The level of women's wrestling in America is so low right now and not much is going to change it. Stardom just ran two big shows and the quality of the top matches not only blows away what the American women are doing right now, but most of the men too. An incredible difference in how the matches look technically and how the workers are mechanically.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508004348747522052

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508006002418929670

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508008946900119563

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507987585083363333


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## I am Groot (May 2, 2017)

3venflow said:


> They can definitely put the brakes on hiring men's wrestlers at any point (though I'm on the belief, you should never stop trying to improve a roster, even if on a one in, one out basis). But the female roster is average and that's putting it kindly.
> 
> They need female talent and like many, I'm not excited by any of the names rumoured - but really, what top-of-the-line names are there besides Tessa, who AEW has avoided for three years?
> 
> ...


Sure hire all the female wrestlers and feed them to Jade.. the actual Star of the women's division. I agree with you on improving but AEW can't manage to use everyone so what's the point on adding more bodies. Im not watching dark or elevation. That stuff got repetitive fast.


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## DRose1994 (Nov 12, 2020)

If it is Toni Storm, then I’m not complaining. Shes gorgeous and a better worker than 97% of the women in AEW already. Shes also coming off of the oppositions TV recently and even wrestled Charlotte for the world title. To me, from the physical presentation to the fact that she flirted with that top position on Smackdown makes her way bigger than Ember Moon.

Other than her finish move, I’ve never thought too highly of Ember.


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## Don Draper's Ghost (Sep 22, 2021)

Firefromthegods said:


> @Doc
> 
> You two fine with the dusty classic if you think it's exploitative?


Why deflect to WWE? I've never given my opinion on the Dusty Cup but the major difference between that and this Owen tournament is that Dusty at least worked for WWE and had a big hand in NXT specifically. I wouldn't see an ulterior motive if it was a tournament in honor of Brodie Lee who actually wrestled in AEW. 

Owen legit had contact with a handful of guys on the AEW roster yet Jericho sent out a tacky "Owen Hart is All Elite!" tweet anyway. Just comes off as a PR stunt to me.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> Why deflect to WWE? I've never given my opinion on the Dusty Cup but the major difference between that and this Owen tournament is that Dusty at least worked for WWE and had a big hand in NXT specifically. I wouldn't see an ulterior motive if it was a tournament in honor of Brodie Lee who actually wrestled in AEW.
> 
> Owen legit had contact with a handful of guys on the AEW roster yet Jericho sent out a tacky "Owen Hart is All Elite!" tweet anyway. Just comes off as a PR stunt to me.


Would you prefer Owen be honored by the WWE where Vince gets rich off hiring a shitty crew and accidentally killing the guy?

Martha Hart disagrees with your take. I’d say her and Bret’s opinions matter more.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

bdon said:


> Would you prefer Owen be honored by the WWE where Vince gets rich off hiring a shitty crew and accidentally killing the guy?
> 
> Martha Hart disagrees with your take. I’d say her and Bret’s opinions matter more.


Multiple things can be true

1. Martha not wanting to do it with Vince makes sense. Even if he had took better precaution her not being willing to forgive him would make sense. 

2. AEW doing it, given the lack of history makes it feel random. But obviously they're the only promotion that has enough visibility to make it worth it for he is wife. 

3. The weird way it's became a battle ground for some fans be it WWE or AEW kinda taints discussions of it. A memorial shouldn't be tainted with

"Haha that's a good fuck you to Vince, woo Owen in the video game "

Or

"Martha is just being a bitch to Vince and disrespecting his WWE legacy".


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## Kaz (Aug 2, 2006)

So, a woman is saying that Toni Storm got someone fired because she thought he was following her and called security over that?


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## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

bdon said:


> Would you prefer Owen be honored by the WWE where Vince gets rich off hiring a shitty crew and accidentally killing the guy?
> 
> Martha Hart disagrees with your take. I’d say her and Bret’s opinions matter more.


Might not want to put brett in that argument since he wants Owen in the hall of fame.

Honestly dont care one way or the other, still tacky as hell to be playing such games but its whatever


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

RapShepard said:


> Multiple things can be true
> 
> 1. Martha not wanting to do it with Vince makes sense. Even if he had took better precaution her not being willing to forgive him would make sense.
> 
> ...


And what of my post disagrees with any of that?


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Hephaesteus said:


> Might not want to put brett in that argument since he wants Owen in the hall of fame.
> 
> Honestly dont care one way or the other, still tacky as hell to be playing such games but its whatever


Then you believe Owen should just continue to go on forever without his memory living on? You think THAT is the best solution?


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## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

bdon said:


> Then you believe Owen should just continue to go on forever without his memory living on? You think THAT is the best solution?


Id bet that more people know of Owen through his matches and other archival footage than some random assed aew tournament bearing his name


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## stew mack (Apr 24, 2013)

French Connection said:


> There is just a word to describe Toni Storm : Salope!


Walt Whitman ova heah


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Hephaesteus said:


> Id bet that more people know of Owen through his matches and other archival footage than some random assed aew tournament bearing his name


And should that just be property of Vince McMahon to make money? If you say yes, then fuck you. Martha has spoken.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Bye kid


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## americanoutlaw (Jul 13, 2012)

La Parka said:


> Has there been a good women’s tournament yet?


Mae young classic


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## BLISSED & LYNCHED (Dec 21, 2021)

americanoutlaw said:


> Mae young classic


NXT UK Inaugural women's tournament as well.


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

americanoutlaw said:


> Mae young classic


I meant in AEW.

They had the Japanese one in a garage.

They had that tag tournament 

2/3 tournament winners are no longer on tv and I don’t think I’ve heard anyone bring up any of these matches as classics.


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## Ultimo Duggan (Nov 19, 2021)

Doc said:


> It's cheap as fuck really.
> 
> Gone out of their way to use a dead man's name to promote a pointless tournament where the winner will receive a main event match on Dark Elevation.


Well, those are just bold faced lies. Thanks for sharing your wisdom on the subject of AEW. Why would the winner get a title shot on Elevation? I don’t think they have had a title shot of any kind take place on Dark: Elevates 

The tournament is a way to honour someone taken from the world far too early. I guess there is a charity Martha wants to promote as well.

How can a tournament be pointless? I’m not sure what the winner gets besides the winning streak in the tournament and the honour of being the tournament winner. That doesn’t make it pointless. It puts the focus on the matches and how a wrestler succeeds or fails during their path through the other competitors

Someone several posts ago asked why there was a women’s Owen Cup. Women are half the population. It is 2022. If they didn’t run a women’s tournament I don’t believe there would have been fans rabidly demanding one for the ladies. This is the 21st century though and it makes sense to run a tournament for both sexes. It doesn’t matter if nobody actually asked for a female version of the tournament. It might make more sense to attach a female wrestler’s name to the title of to the women’s bracket. It is really difficult deciding on who should be the namesake of the women’s version. 

Joanie Laurer is the best name that I can come up with. She wouldn’t be the right name for it for a number of reasons. I don’t rate her much at all apart from her apparent inspiration for female wrestlers all over North America. It gets harder still if we want to keep it to honouring Canadian female wrestlers. The Trish Stratus Cup might be a good option. She is still alive and certainly not underrated so thebwomen’s tourney won’t have the emotion behind it like winning the Inaugural Owen Cup for the men.


Owen’s widow was never going to let WWE honour her husband. They callously allowed a stunt to be done improperly just to give Owen a pratfall entrance. They put more value in a shitty stunt than they valued Owen’s safety. $18 million dollars in wrongful death money seems to point towards WWE’s inherent guilt in the situation.


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## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

Scuba Steve said:


> Probably should not assume it is a squash.
> 
> And I would guess they are choosing to use a trusted veteran in an attempt to help the new signee look as good as possible.


New signings 99% of the time win their debut matches.


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## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

Ultimo Duggan said:


> Well, those are just bold faced lies. Thanks for sharing your wisdom on the subject of AEW. Why would the winner get a title shot on Elevation? I don’t think they have had a title shot of any kind take place on Dark: Elevates
> 
> The tournament is a way to honour someone taken from the world far too early. I guess there is a charity Martha wants to promote as well.
> 
> ...


Lies? Ok then? How's Ruby Riot doing these days? Where's Paul Wight? Mark Henry? 

Never said anything about a title shot. Let's be honest. If AEW was on the same level as say PWG, PWN, Impact, Evolve this tournament wouldn't be happening. TK has thrown money at Owen's widow to use his name to get more eyes on his product. You are kidding yourself if he's doing it just to be a mark.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Firefromthegods said:


> @Doc
> 
> You two fine with the dusty classic if you think it's exploitative?


Dusty actually had a vast history with WWE. Owen Hart has fuck all to do with AEW.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

the_flock said:


> Dusty actually had a vast history with WWE. Owen Hart has fuck all to do with AEW.


So, you’d rather Vince McMahon exploit someone he accidentally killed due to negligence. Cool.

Owen Hart’s WIFE disagrees with you.

Until someone wants to argue that point…


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

bdon said:


> So, you’d rather Vince McMahon exploit someone he accidentally killed due to negligence. Cool.
> 
> Owen Hart’s WIFE disagrees with you.
> 
> Until someone wants to argue that point…


It reminds me a lot of festivals here in the UK, after Dio died, a lot of them named stages after him, then when Lemmy died they did the same. Those festivals got in a lot of shit with fans because those acts either never played at those festivals or had no history with them.

Obviously it's a bit different as Owen died ages ago, but the sentiment remains the same, he had no history with AEW and this is nothing more than a big fuck you to Vince from both Martha and Tony.

I also don't agree with guys like Owen and others appearing in the AEW game when they have never wrestled with them.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

the_flock said:


> It reminds me a lot of festivals here in the UK, after Dio died, a lot of them named stages after him, then when Lemmy died they did the same. Those festivals got in a lot of shit with fans because those acts either never played at those festivals or had no history with them.
> 
> Obviously it's a bit different as Owen died ages ago, but the sentiment remains the same, he had no history with AEW and this is nothing more than a big fuck you to Vince from both Martha and Tony.
> 
> I also don't agree with guys like Owen and others appearing in the AEW game when they have never wrestled with them.


Again, should Martha’s feelings on the matter not be taken into consideration? Should Vince get to market the death of her husband that he had a part in due to his decisions (whether booking or negligence)?

How many people would have to die under Vince’s watch, while he benefitted financially, before someone begins to question shit?


----------



## anonymous9437 (Jan 6, 2021)

bdon said:


> So, you’d rather Vince McMahon exploit someone he accidentally killed due to negligence. Cool.
> 
> Owen Hart’s WIFE disagrees with you.
> 
> Until someone wants to argue that point…


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

anonymous9437 said:


>


And? She is ensuring he is honored. Why should Vince McMahon be allowed to exploit his negligence?


----------



## anonymous9437 (Jan 6, 2021)

bdon said:


> And? She is ensuring he is honored. Why should Vince McMahon be allowed to exploit his negligence?


So you disagree with Owen Hart’s brother Bret Hart?

I’m not arguing with you, Bret Hart is


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

anonymous9437 said:


> So you disagree with Owen Hart’s brother Bret Hart?
> 
> I’m not arguing with you, Bret Hart is


Are you married?

I assure you, my brother is my longest and best friend in this world. When my time has come and the lights go out, my wife’s wishes come first. She knows a version of me that no one else will or can ever understand. Because we show our most true selves to each other, exhibiting a vulnerability that you can not share with anyone else.

Bret wants his best friend to be honored next to him. Martha is ensuring his soul not be desecrated, and his death not be exploited. We can look from the outside and say that it is silly and vindictive, but we (and Bret) are not the ones who planned to spend a lifetime of life’s most intimate moments.

Grown man talk. I hope you can understand this. And if you can’t yet, I hope you one day find that kind of love, man. Martha don’t want Vince touching Owen’s legacy, then I’m with her 100%.


----------



## anonymous9437 (Jan 6, 2021)

bdon said:


> Are you married?
> 
> I assure you, my brother is my longest and best friend in this world. When my time has come and the lights go out, my wife’s wishes come first. She knows a version of me that no one else will or can ever understand. Because we show our most true selves to each other, exhibiting a vulnerability that you can not share with anyone else.
> 
> ...


Why are you arguing with me? I posted what Bret said since you said you value Bret’s opinion

Anyways, Bret Hart wants Martha to let WWE honor Owen and you disagree with Bret, and that’s cool, that’s all you have to say rather than asking about my wife or something


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

anonymous9437 said:


> Why are you arguing with me? I posted what Bret said since you said you value Bret’s opinion
> 
> Anyways, Bret Hart wants Martha to let WWE honor Owen and you disagree with Bret, and that’s cool, that’s all you have to say rather than asking about my wife or something


I didn’t know how Bret felt. I assumed he stood with Martha. Bret is lacking perspective on this and selfishly not seeing that her relationship with Owen is something that no one else can or will understand. They have other siblings. Only one person got to see that side of Owen that Martha did.


----------



## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

bdon said:


> And should that just be property of Vince McMahon to make money? If you say yes, then fuck you. Martha has spoken.


How much money do you think owens hart is bringing in for aew by having his name on a tournament?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Hephaesteus said:


> How much money do you think owens hart is bringing in for aew by having his name on a tournament?


Don’t know. Don’t care.

But Martha clearly don’t want Vince to get a dime off Owen, and I have to respect her wishes. If she felt comfortable agreeing to let Tony be the one to share Owen’s legacy, then that is her decision to make. No one else’s.

Should Owen be in the WWE HOF? Sure. But Owen should also have had a lifetime of memories to make with his wife and kids, and Vince’s negligence (whether real or perceived by Owen’s wife) deprived her of that.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

the_flock said:


> Dusty actually had a vast history with WWE. Owen Hart has fuck all to do with AEW.


It's still exploitative to someone. But the fans don't matter. If Cody and Dustin or in this case Martha approve then it's no biggie.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

bdon said:


> Not at all. I have my issues with the company, but I am not going to cry about goddamn Sting, fucking Owen Hart FINALLY being back in the wrestling mind, and whatever other stupid shit people want to cry about.
> 
> This company is going to always focus on doing what the fans want. That’s just how it is. This company is a love letter to wrestling. For better or worse, it is built on the backs of guys who are doing a passion project as an homage to the wrestling they fell in love with as kids. Whether it is exactly as they remember it or their execution of it missing the mark doesn’t matter: it’s a love letter to the wrestling that all of these guys grew up watching. Cornette’s depiction of them as cosplay isn’t far off, because they’re just a bunch of fans that are re-enacting their childhood and getting paid to do it.
> 
> ...


From what I have seen it's only a love a letter that Tony Khan is giving himself. He bought himself a bunch of living dolls that he can play with. There is nothing in there that any fandom would recognize that when they were kids. Unless they grew up on guerilla wrestling.

And the little boy with his toys had low imagination same as now.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan (Nov 19, 2021)

TK prefers his wrestling to focus on the wrestling. It is the matches where most of AEW’s creativity thrives. 

Overly imaginative bookers are not a good thing. Russo was said to be creative. His problem was that almost none of his ideas worked outside of WWE. It is pretty easy to see which ideas were either a Russo/Ferrara special or one of their favourites to copy. I would strongly argue that early 1999 he ran out of good ideas. Then he proceeded to give maybe the worst Rumble-to-Mania combination in company history. It took a good three months to scrub his stink off the WWE product. Thankfully 2000 was one of their best years for quality programming in its entire history.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Ultimo Duggan said:


> TK prefers his wrestling to focus on the wrestling. It is the matches where most of AEW’s creativity thrives.
> 
> Overly imaginative bookers are not a good thing. Russo was said to be creative. His problem was that almost none of his ideas worked outside of WWE. It is pretty easy to see which ideas were either a Russo/Ferrara special or one of their favourites to copy. I would strongly argue that early 1999 he ran out of good ideas. Then he proceeded to give maybe the worst Rumble-to-Mania combination in company history. It took a good three months to scrub his stink off the WWE product. Thankfully 2000 was one of their best years for quality programming in its entire history.


Was not a fan of the Russo crass stuff but the build up to both Bret Hart's heel turn and to Austin's face turn are text book of how every story should be modeled after in wrestling. Those were the most well booked, well written build ups I have ever seen. And a big reason why Austin became so huge. He didn't just became a star over night. There was a ton of work behind it. Russo was the main writer behind it. 

But we also have seen Russo's excesses when he was doing stupid shit like having Val Venis hitting on Ken Shamrock' sister. 

When I talked about imagination, I didn't think about an alien invading a wrestling show or even the Fiend stuff. But more about finding a hook to a feud that lead to interesting stuff. This is what I find baffling about modern bookers is that their stuff is so damn basic. Sometime I watch old school stuff from the 70s and 80s and I'm always amazed that cigar-chewing old bookers could come up with so many interesting ways to come up with storylines and angles. And I'm like wow these guys are considered outdated now but I feel like they were more imaginative that what is happening now. I don't get it because TV shows nowadays have become more and more complex and crazy than the old TV shows. So there must be PLENTY of material for the bookers to find ideas from. Yet I find those that run wrestling now to be so low on ideas. I wonder if it's laziness or something else. Maybe they want to be UFC or something. But it doesn't work because wrestling is different. You need a good build up, an exciting storyline for the matches to mean something.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Wolf Mark said:


> From what I have seen it's only a love a letter that Tony Khan is giving himself. He bought himself a bunch of living dolls that he can play with. There is nothing in there that any fandom would recognize that when they were kids. Unless they grew up on guerilla wrestling.
> 
> And the little boy with his toys had low imagination same as now.


Again, I didn’t say it was good. It could be with the right bookers, but this is what we got. The Bucks and TK recreating their favorite time in wrestling using lesser talent and less talented bookers.

But more importantly, you can not deny the fact they are a fan servicing bunch of fuckers. It’s akin to that first season of watching Stranger Things or Cobra Kai: not gonna win any awards but doesn’t seem to be what either was striving to do. They were both pure, unadulterated fan service of a time period and product that the team behind the film loved.


----------



## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

Wolf Mark said:


> From what I have seen it's only a love a letter that Tony Khan is giving himself. He bought himself a bunch of living dolls that he can play with. There is nothing in there that any fandom would recognize that when they were kids. Unless they grew up on guerilla wrestling.
> 
> And the little boy with his toys had low imagination same as now.


This past Wednesday we got a match between two giant Bret Hart fans on the 25th anniversary of Austin vs Bret at WM. That is pure fan service and exactly what @bdon is referring to. Like it or hate it, but it is a fact that TK is trying to pay homage to the wrestling history that he loves.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Prized Fighter said:


> This past Wednesday we got a match between two giant Bret Hart fans on the 25th anniversary of Austin vs Bret at WM. That is pure fan service and exactly what @bdon is referring to. Like it or hate it, but it is a fact that TK is trying to pay homage to the wrestling history that he loves.


Thank you for understanding.

Love letters aren’t always great or even wanted. TK pays fan service 99% of the time, which is why I don’t disagree with anyone who claims he bought a promotion and gets to “play” booker like he’s 14: he is booking a show and promotion exactly how everyone of us would have wanted to see things in our childhood.

Now the execution isn’t always great. The talent doesn’t always deliver. It all feels like a bad caricature of wrestling at times. But TK’s vision of AEW is a weekly Ode to Wrestling.

A much better comparison would be Quentin Tarantino. He loves 70s exploitation films. He does every movie loosely based around the tropes of that time period, and the films always come off like a caricature of them: you can see the inspiration even through the exaggerations.

And I hated Tarantino’s work for years. Many did, and many loved it bc they “got” what he was aiming to do.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

TK and Tarantino share a lot of similarities the more I think about it. Both very eccentric. Both know the most random, obscure facts and details about the object of their affection. Little fanfare at the beginning.

Here’s to TK and AEW surviving long enough to make his passion and vision an accepted norm the way Tarantino has.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

bdon said:


> I didn’t know how Bret felt. I assumed he stood with Martha. Bret is lacking perspective on this and selfishly not seeing that her relationship with Owen is something that no one else can or will understand. They have other siblings. Only one person got to see that side of Owen that Martha did.


My dude, respectfully, you sound a little unhinged here. 

Bret had known Owen his while life, which is to say longer than Martha. To say that means he didn't know him as much as Martha did is asinine.

I have had to bury a brother (since we are using anecdotal evidence). For you to make it sound like his opinion shouldn't be taken into account considering he has talked to Vince after it happens is just saying that you only agree with Martha because she agrees with you.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

Ultimo Duggan said:


> TK prefers his wrestling to focus on the wrestling. It is the matches where most of AEW’s creativity thrives.
> 
> Overly imaginative bookers are not a good thing. Russo was said to be creative. His problem was that almost none of his ideas worked outside of WWE. It is pretty easy to see which ideas were either a Russo/Ferrara special or one of their favourites to copy. I would strongly argue that early 1999 he ran out of good ideas. Then he proceeded to give maybe the worst Rumble-to-Mania combination in company history. It took a good three months to scrub his stink off the WWE product. Thankfully 2000 was one of their best years for quality programming in its entire history.


The Vince Russo urban legend strikes again


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

DMD Mofomagic said:


> My dude, respectfully, you sound a little unhinged here.
> 
> Bret had known Owen his while life, which is to say longer than Martha. To say that means he didn't know him as much as Martha did is asinine.
> 
> I have had to bury a brother (since we are using anecdotal evidence). For you to make it sound like his opinion shouldn't be taken into account considering he has talked to Vince after it happens is just saying that you only agree with Martha because she agrees with you.


No. I’m saying I understand Bret’s point of view, but Martha is the one who knows a version of Owen that only she can. That is something that comes with Owen maturing, making himself vulnerable, sharing the birth of children, etc. 

I don’t know Martha and Owen’s relationship, but if it was built on true love, her word should be final. I’ve only known my own wife 3 years, yet I can assure you that she knows pieces of me that my brother and best friends of decades simply don’t know. They know memories of me, but my wife knows my soul.

As such, her word is final when my days on this Earth are numbered. Martha doesn’t seem to be trying to cash in or anything, just a wife who deeply misses her husband. And by all accounts, they had a good relationship.

So, I stand with her.


----------



## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> TK and Tarantino share a lot of similarities the more I think about it. Both very eccentric. Both know the most random, obscure facts and details about the object of their affection. Little fanfare at the beginning.
> 
> Here’s to TK and AEW surviving long enough to make his passion and vision an accepted norm the way Tarantino has.


That is a good comparison. Tarantino has spoken openly about how much he thinks going to film school is a waste of time and creative people should learn from doing. Which is a direct correlation to TK's ideas on letting the wrestlers have freedom and learning from experience instead of training them in a performance center.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

bdon said:


> No. I’m saying I understand Bret’s point of view, but Martha is the one who knows a version of Owen that only she can. That is something that comes with Owen maturing, making himself vulnerable, sharing the birth of children, etc.
> 
> I don’t know Martha and Owen’s relationship, but if it was built on true love, her word should be final. I’ve only known my own wife 3 years, yet I can assure you that she knows pieces of me that my brother and best friends of decades simply don’t know. They know memories of me, but my wife knows my soul.
> 
> ...


I get your main point.

I don't think that McMahon is as callous about the Owen thing as you let on. 

If he were Bret wouldn't have forgiven him. 

But Martha obviously feels some kind of way about it. I will say that she acts very different than Vickie Guerrero. I do think that is telling.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

Prized Fighter said:


> That is a good comparison. Tarantino has spoken openly about how much he thinks going to film school is a waste of time and creative people should learn from doing. Which is a direct correlation to TK's ideas on letting the wrestlers have freedom and learning from experience instead of training them in a performance center.


The thing is that TK isn't that creative. He doesn't seem to want to get the little things that make a difference to the casual fan.

The biggest difference between him and Vince is there are little nuances that need to be tweaked and the show becomes death by 1000 cuts bad.

Wrestlers can have freedom, but that Conti and Sammy promo was awkward and horrible. And the show itself has no flow


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

DMD Mofomagic said:


> I get your main point.
> 
> I don't think that McMahon is as callous about the Owen thing as you let on.
> 
> ...


That’s all it is. A matter of principle for me. Bret may be “right”, but Martha’s feelings come first. As should every husband or wife who has lost someone.

Unless that person is Jada Pinkett-Smith. Lol


----------



## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

DMD Mofomagic said:


> The thing is that TK isn't that creative. He doesn't seem to want to get the little things that make a difference to the casual fan.
> 
> The biggest difference between him and Vince is there are little nuances that need to be tweaked and the show becomes death by 1000 cuts bad.
> 
> Wrestlers can have freedom, but that Conti and Sammy promo was awkward and horrible. And the show itself has no flow


It is true that when your let creative people create they will only see their vision and that can turn off a wider audience. It takes a 2nd or 3rd perspective to tweek it. This is where TK should rely on his veterans more. Tarantino was loved for his love letter style to old Hollywood, but it didn't hit with a wider audience for a while.

Vince has his own "death of 1000 cuts" issues because he is the other end of the spectrum. He takes the feedback from his creative team and then flat out ignores it to cut down the story to it's most basic principles. For some people that works. There are tons of sitcoms that live off of dumbed down basic storytelling with minimal risk. This isn't a knock of WWE because it works for them. It isn't my preferred style, but I understand that a lot of people prefer it.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

3venflow said:


> The level of women's wrestling in America is so low right now and not much is going to change it. Stardom just ran two big shows and the quality of the top matches not only blows away what the American women are doing right now, but most of the men too. An incredible difference in how the matches look technically and how the workers are mechanically.


*Sasha Banks is wrestling at or above that level already. She's having bangers in the awful tag division while Ronda Rousey is stinking up the main event. Put her in the ring with Utami, Tam, Giulia, and Syuri and we're talking about (mechanically, because Brooklyn's story will never be topped) the greatest women's matches of all time in order.*


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

Prized Fighter said:


> It is true that when your let creative people create they will only see their vision and that can turn off a wider audience. It takes a 2nd or 3rd perspective to tweek it. This is where TK should rely on his veterans more. Tarantino was loved for his love letter style to old Hollywood, but it didn't hit with a wider audience for a while.


Yeah, but there are things that after 3 years should have evolved.

Literally every storyline starts the same way. Either the guy interrupts and interview, or someone comes out to interfere, or there is an interview segment where they "call someone out" or the good ol bump in the back.

I disagree when people say that TK does more than write down matches. If you look at his last PPV, there was no rhyme or reason for anything.

Everyone got long matches, 3 handshake spots, excessive blood to the point people who are huge AEW defenders on Twitter started commenting on it. Bryan Danielson with the worst blade job ever. Two car crash matches back to back.

McMahon super neurotic micro management may not be the answer, but some stuff just shouldn't be happening in year 3.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

the_flock said:


> It reminds me a lot of festivals here in the UK, after Dio died, a lot of them named stages after him, then when Lemmy died they did the same. Those festivals got in a lot of shit with fans because those acts either never played at those festivals or had no history with them.
> 
> Obviously it's a bit different as Owen died ages ago, but the sentiment remains the same, he had no history with AEW and this is nothing more than a big fuck you to Vince from both Martha and Tony.
> 
> I also don't agree with guys like Owen and others appearing in the AEW game when they have never wrestled with them.


I'm sorry but Martha has way more of a right to Owen's likeness than Vince.

At least this way we get to celebrate his career


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Ther


DMD Mofomagic said:


> Yeah, but there are things that after 3 years should have evolved.
> 
> Literally every storyline starts the same way. Either the guy interrupts and interview, or someone comes out to interfere, or there is an interview segment where they "call someone out" or the good ol bump in the back.
> 
> ...


There are some things that shouldn’t be happening in year 40+, and yet Vince McMahon disproves that theory.

Insert Jerry Jones for my Cowboys or anything else. Or you could go back and watch film 3 in Tarantino’s movies, and you’d think, “You can’t keep making the same mistakes”, because you wouldn’t understand that style is by design.

I didn’t come around on Tarantino until probably the Grindhouse films or maybe the Hateful Eight.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan (Nov 19, 2021)

DMD Mofomagic said:


> The Vince Russo urban legend strikes again


What do you mean?

Russo was a hack. He helped 1996-97 WWF feel more modern because he came up with more contemporary themes. He approached things unlike the wrestling people they have relied on for decades. That worked until he ran out of good ideas. Rock Bottom 1998 is probably the peak of his talents. It was all downhill from there regardless of where he worked.

He left the WWF for sensible reasons that I have no problem believing. From then on it was all repeating angles, characters and ideas for the rest of his career including TNA.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

bdon said:


> Ther
> 
> There are some things that shouldn’t be happening in year 40+, and yet Vince McMahon disproves that theory.
> 
> ...


There is a difference between "that was a mistake" and "Why does he not know that by now"

Jerry Jones hasn't won anything in about 25 years, so that is a bad example.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

Ultimo Duggan said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> Russo was a hack. He helped 1996-97 WWF feel more modern because he came up with more contemporary themes. He approached things unlike the wrestling people they have relied on for decades. That worked until he ran out of good ideas. Rock Bottom 1998 is probably the peak of his talents. It was all downhill from there regardless of where he worked.
> 
> He left the WWF for sensible reasons that I have no problem believing. From then on it was all repeating angles, characters and ideas for the rest of his career including TNA.


I mean that people have this idea of Russo and create arguments based on opinion to justify them

In fact, you did just that.

People need to understand that Russo had good ideas and bad ideas.

But so did Ric Flair, and Pat Patterson, and Dusty Rhodes, and Paul Heyman, and Kevin Sullivan, and Tony Khan.

If his writing, doesn't appeal to you, then that's fine. But to make it out to be that he was completely inept is as silly as people saying he was completely infallible.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

DMD Mofomagic said:


> There is a difference between "that was a mistake" and "Why does he not know that by now"
> 
> Jerry Jones hasn't won anything in about 25 years, so that is a bad example.


Vince McMahon has bled his viewership dry for 20….


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

bdon said:


> Vince McMahon has bled his viewership dry for 20….


I don't know why you are bringing up McMahon. 

Please stop trying to use this crutch. Vince McMahon doesn't own the Cowboys or AEW.

I'm not comparing TK to McMahon, I'm comparing him to himself.

That is the fair way to do it


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

DMD Mofomagic said:


> I don't know why you are bringing up McMahon.
> 
> Please stop trying to use this crutch. Vince McMahon doesn't own the Cowboys or AEW.
> 
> ...


I’m not deflecting. One could have said the same thing about Tarantino after his 2nd or 3rd film. He had his style, and whether you liked it or not, he was going to do HIS style.

I don’t agree with everything TK does, the way he formats the shows, tells stories, etc, but I’m coming to grips with this is how he wants to do things. There is clearly a market for what he is doing. He doesn’t have to grow the fan base if he has a loyal following, look no further than say Supernatural on the CW channel.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

bdon said:


> I’m not deflecting. One could have said the same thing about Tarantino after his 2nd or 3rd film. He had his style, and whether you liked it or not, he was going to do HIS style.
> 
> I don’t agree with everything TK does, the way he formats the shows, tells stories, etc, but I’m coming to grips with this is how he wants to do things. There is clearly a market for what he is doing. He doesn’t have to grow the fan base if he has a loyal following, look no further than say Supernatural on the CW channel.


Good for you.

I am glad you enjoy it


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

DMD Mofomagic said:


> Good for you.
> 
> I am glad you enjoy it


I didn’t say I enjoyed it. I watch a couple segments each week, because it feels too much like a WWE show since basically Full Gear. Lol

I just said I have to accept that this is the show he’s going to give us.


----------



## OozingMachismo (Nov 26, 2021)

bdon said:


> So, you’d rather Vince McMahon exploit someone he accidentally killed due to negligence. Cool.
> 
> Owen Hart’s WIFE disagrees with you.
> 
> Until someone wants to argue that point…


Sometimes widows are wrong. Would Owen disagree is a better question?

semi-recent example was the late Roy Halladay of Major League Baseball. He stated while he was alive that when he went into the hall of fame, he wanted to go in as a Toronto Blue Jay. His widow decided he wasn't going to go into the hall of fame as Blue Jay, and decided he was going to go in with no team affiliation. She got major heat for not honoring his wishes.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan (Nov 19, 2021)

DMD Mofomagic said:


> I mean that people have this idea of Russo and create arguments based on opinion to justify them
> 
> In fact, you did just that.
> 
> ...


Nah. He ruined two promotions (WCW & TNA) and WWF had way more misses than hits until he left. He did have some ideas. Then he just did them over and over. The very fact that he exists cost TNA a better TV deal than they can ever hope to get again. Was he really THAT great at writing that Dixie kept him secretly on the payroll? Even though the channel TOLD them they had to get rid of Russo Dixie just had to have his genius on speed dial. 

I’m honestly surprised that the Russo pendulum has swung more towards the middle of the scale. Only people that watched TNA would defend him fifteen or more years ago online. Cornette just goes too far with his vitriol towards Russo. If Russo actually had ideas and a brain for wrestling he would be working for someone.

I’’m a big proponent of watching all the wrestling that you like. Whatever moves fans to enjoy wrestling is a good thing. Russo becoming less polarizing a figure is something I never thought I would see.


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## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

How did we get to Russo ?


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Prized Fighter said:


> This past Wednesday we got a match between two giant Bret Hart fans on the 25th anniversary of Austin vs Bret at WM. That is pure fan service and exactly what @bdon is referring to. Like it or hate it, but it is a fact that TK is trying to pay homage to the wrestling history that he loves.


Paying homage to wrestling is doing a great wrestling promotion. That is not the case. 

Giving weight to the idea that AEW is cosplaying at wrestling. Little kids trying to be wrestlers.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

bdon said:


> Again, I didn’t say it was good. It could be with the right bookers, but this is what we got. The Bucks and TK recreating their favorite time in wrestling using lesser talent and less talented bookers.
> 
> But more importantly, you can not deny the fact they are a fan servicing bunch of fuckers. It’s akin to that first season of watching Stranger Things or Cobra Kai: not gonna win any awards but doesn’t seem to be what either was striving to do. They were both pure, unadulterated fan service of a time period and product that the team behind the film loved.


Stranger Things and CK inspired themselves from the 80s but did something great with it on their own. I don't know what the inspiration of AEW is, if we are talking about stuff from the past.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Wolf Mark said:


> Stranger Things and CK inspired themselves from the 80s but did something great with it on their own. I don't know what the inspiration of AEW is, if we are talking about stuff from the past.


Then you’re just being petty and not trying to have a legit discussion. It’s clearly an attempt at offering fans a taste of what they felt in the late 90s as a cross between the big 3 of WWE, WCW, and ECW.

Neither @Prized Fighter or I have said their execution was perfect. We even used Tarantino’s films as a comparison, because Tarantino makes a cartoon caricature of his childhood films by going over the top with the standout tropes.

But you don’t want to have a conversation. You simply want to hear yourself talk. And to treat others like a wall for you to bounce your own ideas and opinions off. So go ahead. I, for one, won’t interrupt you further. Enjoy.


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Geeee said:


> I'm sorry but Martha has way more of a right to Owen's likeness than Vince.
> 
> At least this way we get to celebrate his career


Celebrate his career with a meaningless tournament in a promotion which had fuck all to do with him or his legacy.


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## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

Ultimo Duggan said:


> Nah. He ruined two promotions (WCW & TNA) and WWF had way more misses than hits until he left. He did have some ideas. Then he just did them over and over. The very fact that he exists cost TNA a better TV deal than they can ever hope to get again. Was he really THAT great at writing that Dixie kept him secretly on the payroll? Even though the channel TOLD them they had to get rid of Russo Dixie just had to have his genius on speed dial.
> 
> I’m honestly surprised that the Russo pendulum has swung more towards the middle of the scale. Only people that watched TNA would defend him fifteen or more years ago online. Cornette just goes too far with his vitriol towards Russo. If Russo actually had ideas and a brain for wrestling he would be working for someone.
> 
> I’’m a big proponent of watching all the wrestling that you like. Whatever moves fans to enjoy wrestling is a good thing. Russo becoming less polarizing a figure is something I never thought I would see.


The wrestling I like? 

What exactly does that mean? Do you know my favorite time and period in wrestling?

Also the TV deal is an urban legend thing, it's been debunked.

He was at WCW collectively for 9 months. Another urban legend that he was writing longer than he was.

Russo was never really hated by anyone until Cornette started ranting on him and Meltzer co signed on it.

He is truly wrestling's biggest urban legend.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

bdon said:


> Then you’re just being petty and not trying to have a legit discussion. It’s clearly an attempt at offering fans a taste of what they felt in the late 90s as a cross between the big 3 of WWE, WCW, and ECW.
> 
> Neither @Prized Fighter or I have said their execution was perfect. We even used Tarantino’s films as a comparison, because Tarantino makes a cartoon caricature of his childhood films by going over the top with the standout tropes.
> 
> But you don’t want to have a conversation. You simply want to hear yourself talk. And to treat others like a wall for you to bounce your own ideas and opinions off. So go ahead. I, for one, won’t interrupt you further. Enjoy.


I just don't see it. I see a promotion that catter to indy fans. I don't see anything from WCW or WWE or ECW other than maybe getting a WCW star like Sting or JR/Tony. 

Maybe he should try harder at being a rip-off promotion? 😁


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