# Right Wingers, Come Gather



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

i stand with daniel webster 



Badass Daniel Webster said:


> but everywhere, spread all over in characters of living light, blazing on all its ample folds, as they float over the sea and over the land, and in every wind under the whole heavens, that other sentiment, dear to every true American heart-Liberty and Union, now and forever, one and inseparable!


traitors like neo-confederates aren't even losers they're people who admire losers 

how pathetic is that 

i don't consider them part of the right wing just as i wouldn't consider a stalinist or maoist to be co-members of some rando who votes democrat

but you're clearly very :triggered by these loser-loving traitors and rightly so


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Tariq Nasheed being a credible source of anything. :mj4


:damn Those tiki torches are a bad look.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Oxidamus said:


> Tariq Nasheed being a credible source of anything. :mj4


Did you press play and watch the videos?


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Headliner said:


> Did you press play and watch the videos?


Yeah what is the context on the first 2?


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Oxidamus said:


> Yeah what is the context on the first 2?


If you watched then it doesn't matter who posts the videos. The grand wizard of the KKK, David Duke could have posted them. The videos speak for themselves.


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## Eric Fleischer (Mar 28, 2012)

Keep fighting the good fight, Headliner. This place is a mostly lost cause, especially when raw video is now "fake news, derp" as well as the "No True Righty" defense.


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Headliner said:


> If you watched then it doesn't matter who posts the videos. The grand wizard of the KKK, David Duke could have posted them. The videos speak for themselves.


I asked for context not for the source, Tariq Nasheed is a race-baiting troll so it isn't unlikely he's twisting shit. Don't somehow take this as some kind of denial of there being racists.


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## Braylyt (Jan 19, 2015)

Oxidamus said:


> Tariq Nasheed being a credible source of anything. :mj4


This :lol

Besides being one of the biggest goofballs on the internet.. if you set up a racist initiative with a swastika as its logo you automatically lose every right to complain about racism.

#ShutUpTariq


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Oxidamus said:


> I asked for context not for the source, Tariq Nasheed is a race-baiting troll so it isn't unlikely he's twisting shit. Don't somehow take this as some kind of denial of there being racists.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...r-white-nationalist-rally-saturday/560829001/

Read.


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## Laughable Chimp (Sep 1, 2016)

I still have no idea wtf is the difference between the left wing and right wing. 

Edit:After reading a basic definition of both, I seem to prefer the right-wing.


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

These ********** are the Antifa of the Right.

Though I'd say far more violence comes from Left leaning protests but that could very well be because of the fact there are more protests from the Left and you have the fanatic blackbloc and paid protester element.

Please tell me you don't listen to Tariq, Headliner, that would be sad 



Eric Fleischer said:


> Keep fighting the good fight, Headliner. This place is a mostly lost cause, especially when raw video is now "fake news, derp" as well as the "No True Righty" defense.


This is true, too many Righties and Lefties with their blinders on thinking they're righteous and just!


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## Lesnar Turtle (Dec 6, 2011)

Tariq Nasheed posts?


Op, you go on Thecoli aka black stormfront dont you? pretty rich to complain about racism if you do.


But yes, of course right wingers can be violent too.


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Headliner said:


> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...r-white-nationalist-rally-saturday/560829001/
> 
> Read.


Okay, so what I'm gathering is a bunch of far-right probably 99% white people lead by white "supremacist" Richard Spencer decided they were going to congregate to protest the removal of a statue of Robert E. Lee. They were told they had to relocate because of the sheer number of people who were going to be there, which kind of defeats the purpose of the protest, so they went there anyway?

So this article explains the context as to why there was a congregation but it doesn't explain the context of the violence. Did someone just decide to start attacking another person and it snowballed? I suppose the use of racial slurs is expected when Stormfront and Stormfront-likes gets together.

I don't think anyone here won't actually condemn the violence but they will question what sparked it, which apparently has no proper explanation as of yet.

Also that article really did take sides, didn't it? You shouldn't be surprised when people want to argue against you on some respects with things like this. They're so quick to call the right racists, nazis, white supremacists, etc. Not just in the media but even the politicians. As if their postmodernist agenda of removing and potentially rewriting history should go unquestioned.
FWIW I don't think there's much wrong with relocating confederate statues to museums, but it certainly seems like these gov. officials like to go ahead with things without actually listening to their constituents that disagree.


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## Tater (Jan 3, 2012)

Headliner said:


> So ya'll going to sweep this under the rug? Ya'll going to downplay it? Or you going to condemn your right wing white supremacist co-members? I know it's an ugly thing ya'll right wing fanatics don't want to address within ya'll ranks.


Don't fall for the propaganda. This was obviously a liberal false flag to make Trump supporters look bad. There are no depths that those stupid libtards won't sink to. Shame on them for slandering the good name of such fine, upstanding right wing Americans. For shame!


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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

Miss Sally said:


> These ********** are the Antifa of the Right.
> 
> Though I'd say far more violence comes from Left leaning protests but that could very be because of the fact there are more protests and you have the fanatic blackbloc and paid protester element.
> 
> ...


Turns out Antifa were actually there and involved in the violence. The clips posted are sorely lacking in context. Not that any context is needed to condemn the woman throwing the n-word around, of course. 

As for a bunch of white people having a march and saying "White Lives Matter" to preserve the Robert E Lee statue, well, if it's good for the goose etc. Personally I'm not a fan of all the identitarian stuff but this kind of backlash should've been expected and I don't see it as any worse than the Black Lives Matter stuff honestly.


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/white-nationalists-march-uva-torches-article-1.3404681


> Sharing a photo of the torch-bearing march on Friday, Unite the Right organizer Jason Kessler wrote on Twitter, "Incredible moment for white people who've had it up to here & aren't going to take it anymore. Tomorrow we #Unitethe Right #Charlottesville."


Some of you folks seem to think this is funny, that you can make childish arguments like "But what about this or that or them! You're not perfect, I win!" or be cute by resorting to internet tactics such as asking for video context. This isn't funny. There's nothing funny about any of what's happening with the US right now. 

White nationalists marching with torches while chanting "blood and soil" and calling for an end to immigration is not justifiable. There's no context or allowance for provocation required to condemn them.


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

GothicBohemian said:


> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/white-nationalists-march-uva-torches-article-1.3404681
> 
> 
> Some of you folks seem to think this is funny, that you can make childish arguments like "But what about this or that or them! You're not perfect, I win!" or be cute by resorting to internet tactics such as asking for video context. This isn't funny. There's nothing funny about any of what's happening with the US right now.
> ...


Frankly I don't think there is any justification in violent protests no matter what side you are or whatever you're protesting for.


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

Are you saying David Duke is the grand wizard of the KKK?


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

GothicBohemian said:


> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/white-nationalists-march-uva-torches-article-1.3404681
> 
> 
> 
> White nationalists marching with torches while chanting "blood and soil" and calling for an end to immigration is not justifiable. There's no context or allowance for provocation required to condemn them.


Why not? Don't you believe in freedom of speech? I'm betting you don't, thus the only justification you have is sanctimony.


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Best thing about threads like this is they really illustrate what some people are really like.


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

Miss Sally said:


> Frankly I don't think there is any justification in violent protests no matter what side you are or whatever you're protesting for.


The only time violence is justified is in retaliation against violence, and even then it is not always wise or required.



Jay Valero said:


> Why not? Don't you believe in freedom of speech? I'm betting you don't, thus the only justification you have is sanctimony.


Oh, I support their right to march around with their backyard tikki torches looking like suburban weekend protesters. They should be free to go ahead and look silly while showing themselves to be racist tools. That doesn't mean I approve of their message or have much respect for anyone who does. 

I feel sorry for the people who have good reason to fear racist violence yet had to witness this display in person. Pictures of these goofs viewed through a computer screen inspires eye rolls but being there after dark watching the event could be terrifying for some.


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## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

I hope TeamPOC starts preparing for the inevitable race war like TeamWhite is; they out there getting them reps in, working on strategy and formations lol.


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

GothicBohemian said:


> The only time violence is justified is in retaliation against violence, and even then it is not always wise or required.


Oh I certainly don't disagree with you. If someone is attacking you, you should fight back. Standing there getting your ass kicked is moronic! (People should be smart about what they do.)

I was just saying I don't condone violence of any sort regardless of what it is, though I wasn't saying you should just let violent people trample you. I should have been more clear. 

Violence isn't a solution but please, defend yourself when violence comes your way!


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

GothicBohemian said:


> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/white-nationalists-march-uva-torches-article-1.3404681
> 
> 
> Some of you folks seem to think this is funny, that you can make childish arguments like "But what about this or that or them! You're not perfect, I win!" or be cute by resorting to internet tactics such as asking for video context. This isn't funny. There's nothing funny about any of what's happening with the US right now.
> ...


I wasn't aware asking for context regarding why a fight started was some 'cute internet tactic'. Is asking for context, in other words, being reasonable and trying to understand the problem, just a tool of oppression, which I and anyone else use to cudgel the oppressed down, while laughing?

You're smarter than that.

I also didn't hear "blood and soil" being yelled in the videos Liner linked. I couldn't make anything out other than "white lives matter"


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

I actually can't remember the last time anyone on here downplayed any form of violence. Left or Right. I think all forms of violence are abhorring and in many cases I'm even opposed to killing someone in selfdefence if you can shoot to stop and not kill. 

It seems more like a typical liberal/leftist fantasy that we'd act like liberals do (this is sarcasm btw) :Shrug

How many threads on here are made about violence around the world and in America and we don't get hordes of leftists condemning them either. People are free to pick and choose the threads they comment in. 

Condemning violence isn't a right or a left thing. It's a human thing. If you want to draw lines in the sand, then that's all in your head and has little to do with the actual reality.


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

So, who brought the marshmallows and hot dogs?

Also, not completely related, but what the hell is airbnb?


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## .MCH (Dec 1, 2008)

> white supremacist


Call them what they really are, Nazi's.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Lesnar Turtle said:


> Tariq Nasheed posts?
> 
> 
> Op, you go on Thecoli aka black stormfront dont you? pretty rich to complain about racism if you do.
> ...


I don't care much for Tariq either. I have a history of shitting on him elsewhere. But I have agreed with some of his points in the past. This isn't about Tariq. He has nothing to do with this thread.


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> I hope TeamPOC starts preparing for the inevitable race war like TeamWhite is; they out there getting them reps in, working on strategy and formations lol.


I've been saying people should support BGM and everyone should know your Rights and self Defense. 

I've also said people should be concerned about laws that limit rights but promise "safety"

I've also stated that non-whites don't have "White Allies", when your "Allies" use racial slurs against non-whites who don't conform to their thinking, shout anti-semitic nonsense while trashing stores, use non-whites as shields in protests and outright preach hate against people of their own skin color.. then these people aren't your friends. 

Anyone with pure hate in their hearts for themselves or others cannot love you.

It would be like calling Uncle Rukus an ally lol

If there is anything La Raza taught me (Besides the fact they're a group of racist idiots) it's that you can only rely on community, friends and family. Not Politicians and certainly not "Political Allies" as these people have their own agenda. 


When the slaves were freed and under attack by men dressed up as ghosts, it wasn't praying to Jesus, singing nice songs or going to your white neighbor who thought you were "Okay for a *****".. Nope it was Family, Community, Smarts and weapons. 

Call me paranoid but anyone in any Revolution was never safe unless you followed the EXACT line of thought as them. Even in the Mid East rebels fighting for the same cause fight each other, it's not going to be magically different in warfare nor politics here because these white people wear black masks instead of white.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Oxidamus said:


> I wasn't aware asking for context regarding why a fight started was some 'cute internet tactic'. Is asking for context, in other words, being reasonable and trying to understand the problem, just a tool of oppression, which I and anyone else use to cudgel the oppressed down, while laughing?
> 
> You're smarter than that.
> 
> *I also didn't hear "blood and soil" being yelled in the videos Liner linked.* I couldn't make anything out other than "white lives matter"


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

Headliner said:


> I don't care much for Tariq either. I have a history of shitting on him elsewhere. But I have agreed with some of his points in the past. This isn't about Tariq. He has nothing to do with this thread.


That you have agreed with some of that racists points says everything there is to say about you. That racist piece of shit's posts are your source material for this thread, meaning he has everything to do with this thread. :grin2:


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Jay Valero said:


> That you have agreed with some of that racists points says everything there is to say about you. That racist piece of shit's posts are your source material for this thread, meaning he has everything to do with this thread. :grin2:


Not really. Tariq just happens to be a stomach vomiting talking point for some. And it's understandable. It's a good way for some to spin the topic and talk about him. As already done on the first page of this thread. 

I've agreed with his points on white supremacy, but I've shit on him for poisoning the minds of gullible people with militant rhetoric that is quite frankly bullshit.


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## Jedah (Jul 16, 2017)

All sides need to deescalate.

Part of the problem is the broad, reckless use of terms like "right wingers," "left wingers," "white supremacists, "Nazis," "SJW's," "snowflakes," or whatever.

These terms don't enhance the level of civil discourse, they just reinforce ideological filters and polarization (through confirmation bias), and often serve more to telegraph information about the person using them than the person they're being used to describe. Some people really do fit that description, many don't.

And second is that this was entirely predictable. Most people on the "right" (to use the broadest term possible) think Richard Spencer is an odious character, but people like him are the natural reaction to what's been happening on the other side of the spectrum. He of course saw that and is now getting a toehold he otherwise wouldn't have gotten without it. You can't expect to get away with preaching about "punch a Nazi in the face" and incidents like what we saw at Berkeley, with the shooting at the congressional baseball game a few months ago, etc. without a response. Somebody said Antifa was involved in this episode and that wouldn't surprise me. If you get identity politics shoved up your ass wherever you go, eventually the other side is going to dive into identity politics. Julian Assange had some good insights into this the other day, before this happened.

https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/894558905115844609

I also blame social media but that's a whole different story.

So both sides need to stop the posturing, the preening language, and identity politics or it's only going to get worse.


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## Kink_Brawn (Mar 4, 2015)

>Be Headliner
>Say subtly racist shit and get away with it because he is a mod
>Be pro black
>Has had pro black, identity politics imagery and phrases as his signature
>Gets upset when white people do it
>Not know what a hypocrite is

Seriously though, Wes Bellamy, the VICE MAYOR....and I will post that again for slow people, the VICE MAYOR of Charlottesville Virginia, has posted tons of racist shit about white people on his twitter, and as per black stereotype, has also posted stuff about raping women as well, and has never been met with any repercussions. 

That's one of the reasons that this rally is taking place. "Mess with the bull, get the horns"

I suppose white people brainwashed Headliner from knowing this information.

Also, I believe the torches are inspired by torch marches they hold in Europe to honor monuments of fallen nationals, however, I do agree that it looks sort of "Klan-ish", but I believe that these guys want attention, so, success on their end obviously.

As a non white, I can honestly not blame these guys or be surprised by this sort of stuff. Only a matter of time honestly. Nearly every single thing you see in TV, movies, sports, music etc. has some sort of anti white message or undertone. Elected officials, celebrities, professors of academia all go on Twitter and other social platforms to shit on white people while never having any consequence. Which is truly ironic because the doctrine of free speech that the US covets which they are taking advantage of when they do this was written by racist white men.

What did people think would happen?? Everyone gets to play identity politics except ******?? This is likely only the beginning.


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## Stephen90 (Mar 31, 2015)

Kink_Brawn said:


> >Be Headliner
> >Say subtly racist shit and get away with it because he is a mod
> >Be pro black
> >Has had pro black, identity politics imagery and phrases as his signature
> ...


You forgot post things from fake black guy Shaun King.


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## CesaroSwing (Jan 30, 2017)

Kink_Brawn said:


> >Be Headliner
> >Say subtly racist shit and get away with it because he is a mod
> .


Does he actually do that? Genuine question


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)




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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Stephen90 said:


> You forgot post things from fake black guy Shaun King.


I don't even like Shaun King. 


CesaroSwing said:


> Does he actually do that? Genuine question


No.


Kink_Brawn said:


> >Be Headliner
> >Say subtly racist shit and get away with it because he is a mod


False


> >Be pro black
> >Has had pro black, identity politics imagery and phrases as his signature


Problem?


> Gets upset when white people do it
> Not know what a hypocrite is


Please do not attempt to equate pro black to pro white. They are not the same. You have a history of bigotry on this forum as you were banned for racism in the past by a mod. So this is a discussion you will not be involved in. 



virus21 said:


>


He's sympathizer trash but I expect you to post trash from him so that's not surprising.


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## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

The KKK is irrelevant now. :lol

- Vic


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

Headliner said:


> He's sympathizer trash but I expect you to post trash from him so that's not surprising.


Did you even watch the video?


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

If they were Nazis, I'd be disappointed that they're missing the badass sense of fashion tbh.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

virus21 said:


> Did you even watch the video?


Watched the first 3 to 4 minutes and turned it off. That was all I needed to know. 

Please don't pollute my thread with garbage.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

Headliner said:


> Watched the first 3 to 4 minutes and turned it off. That was all I needed to know.
> 
> Please don't pollute my thread with garbage.


Yet you post something from Tariq Nasheed. But fine, I won't waste your time since you don't want to actually discuss anything.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

virus21 said:


> Yet you post something from Tariq Nasheed. But fine, I won't waste your time since you don't want to actually discuss anything.


Nice to see you didn't read the first page of this thread where I openly stated that all he really did was post a video. That same video could have been posted by someone who was proud of the bullshit on those videos. It didn't matter _who_ posted the video. The content in the video was what mattered. 

LOL Tariq gets under ya'll skin so much that it's easy to bring him up as a talking point. I don't even like him but it's so funny to see how much salt he gives ya'll.

So, back to the original point. Ya'll going to condemn these alt right/white nationalist/supremacist groups in your Conservative party? Or play this free speech game?


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## Lesnar Turtle (Dec 6, 2011)

Headliner said:


> Please do not attempt to equate pro black to pro white.


Pro black means thinking your tribe is better than everyone elses and only caring about furthering the interests of your own people while shitting on others, just like being pro white. Political correctness has allowed the rampant bigotry in the black community to go unchecked for so long, even excusing and encouraging it as some kind of "resistance" when its nothing more than the same mindset in a different skin tone. If these brave, virtuous, heroic pro black types got the numbers and power advantage they'd be sending ****** to concentration camps in a heartbeat. Just look at the wildly disproportionate epidemic of black on white racial violence (which the failure to treat ALL racism equally is partly responsible for) if you want a glimpse of what it'd be like. 



Headliner said:


> He's sympathizer trash but I expect you to post trash from him so that's not surprising.


Are you forgetting that you posted tweets from a black supremacist in your OP? 

Pro black is fine, pro white isnt.

Tariq Nasheed is fine, Styxenhammer (or whatever that guys name is) isnt. Whats with the double standards breh?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I believe that the further we go on the political spectrum, the more left becomes like the right and vice versa. Extreme far-left and extreme far-right aren't that much different. White supremacists are a bunch of pussies and SJWs are just fascists in disguise.


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## SpeedStick (Feb 11, 2010)

American keep falling for it don't you see those who are in control are pushing you to a race war??


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Lesnar Turtle said:


> Pro black means thinking your tribe is better than everyone elses and only caring about furthering the interests of your own people while shitting on others, just like being pro white. Political correctness has allowed the rampant bigotry in the black community to go unchecked for so long, even excusing and encouraging it as some kind of "resistance" when its nothing more than the same mindset in a different skin tone. If these brave, virtuous, heroic pro black types got the numbers and power advantage they'd be sending ****** to concentration camps in a heartbeat. Just look at the wildly disproportionate epidemic of black on white racial violence (which the failure to treat ALL racism equally is partly responsible for) if you want a glimpse of what it'd be like.


False. Being pro black is about black empowerment, equality and combating white supremacy. The problem is, minority movement groups are normally demonized in it's entirety by conservatives for a few bad apples in the group. They will use those few radical, idiot bad apples to characterize and demonize the entire group in an attempt to spin the message of the group toward some radicalized hate group. The same thing was done to the Black Panthers. 

Being pro white is normally rooted in white nationalism, supremacy, sympathizing, hate and prejudice. There is nothing wrong with "being" white. There is nothing wrong with being a conservative. Because I can see how someone on here would try to twist my words because they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. 

Please don't speak on what you don't know. 


> Are you forgetting that you posted tweets from a black supremacist in your OP?
> 
> Pro black is fine, pro white isnt.
> 
> Tariq Nasheed is fine, Styxenhammer (or whatever that guys name is) isnt. Whats with the double standards breh?


Please read the previous posts in this thread. Clearly you haven't.


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

The biggest issue I have with pro anything is that it quickly can escalate into supremacy and hate. It's just how it is.

You can just take a look at groups like La Raza which were pro-Hispanic groups and at first were about equal treatment, fair wages and pointing out discrimination and also empowerment for Hispanics. Yet now if you look at their rhetoric it's racist, hateful to everyone but Hispanics and some even preach "conquest" and pushing out all whites/blacks etc.

It's comparable to Pride movements, one can have pride in basically anything, being white, black whatever. To me it's all dumb but to some heritage is important but the more people put emphasis on heritage etc the more tribalistic people tend to get. 

I cannot see what's wrong with a pro-white movement among poor whites who live in extreme poverty, are ignored for grants for College and are completely shit on by more well off and educated whites. Look at the way most whites talk about Southern whites as if they're some kind of subspecies. 

I think the biggest issue with any movement that seeks to empower any one group is that it tends to bring down others to empower itself and uses tribalism which often turns to racism. It really is a razors edge when it comes to these sort issues because of human history.


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## Jedah (Jul 16, 2017)

Headliner said:


> False. Being pro black is about black empowerment, equality and combating white supremacy. The problem is, minority movement groups are normally demonized in it's entirety by conservatives for a few bad apples in the group. They will use those few radical, idiot bad apples to characterize and demonize the entire group in an attempt to spin the message of the group toward some radicalized hate group. The same thing was done to the Black Panthers.
> 
> Being pro white is normally rooted in white nationalism, supremacy, sympathizing, hate and prejudice. There is nothing wrong with "being" white. There is nothing wrong with being a conservative. Because I can see how someone on here would try to twist my words because they don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
> 
> ...


This paragraph says more about you than it does about the people you're criticizing.

It's entirely driven by labels that provide the illusion of high level thinking but in actuality is just confirmation bias.

And it doesn't help to deescalate these situations. With this stuff you're just going to get a lot more of this.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Jedah said:


> This paragraph says more about you than it does about the people you're criticizing.
> 
> It's entirely driven by labels that provide the illusion of high level thinking but in actuality is just confirmation bias.
> 
> And it doesn't help to deescalate these situations. With this stuff you're just going to get a lot more of this.


Truth hurts.


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Well this thread went precisely the way I thought it would.


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## Tater (Jan 3, 2012)

*All* pro-(insert race here) sentiments are racist by their very nature because they identify people differently by the color of their skin. It doesn't matter if the pro- movement is for hateful reasons. It's still dividing people up into groups based on skin color and that is racist by definition. *Scientifically speaking, there is no such thing as race*. The invention of race is a human construct based on tribalism. The fact is, we are all one human species, and until everyone starts viewing everyone else as fellow humans instead of different races, racism will never truly die.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Headliner said:


> I remember speaking with some conservative delusional on here who tried to claim that right wing protest groups aren't violent.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896238835645915136
> ...


Wow. Way to cherry pick, Headliner. You realize we could do the exact same thing for the worst of the left?


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Them dudes are fucking creepy though, that tiki torch shit, like some low-rent wannabe-Nazi rally. People marching with torches = hackles up. Fuck em.


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

deepelemblues said:


> Them dudes are fucking creepy though, that tiki torch shit, like some low-rent wannabe-Nazi rally. People marching with torches = hackles up. Fuck em.


What if them marched with glow sticks and then were doing fancy glow stick dancing while shouting "Blood and Oil!!..Soil..Whatever!"


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## CesaroSwing (Jan 30, 2017)

deepelemblues said:


> Them dudes are fucking creepy though, that tiki torch shit, like some low-rent wannabe-Nazi rally. People marching with torches = hackles up. Fuck em.


They're degenerates


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Miss Sally said:


> What if them marched with glow sticks and then were doing fancy glow stick dancing while shouting "Blood and Oil!!..Soil..Whatever!"


Then they would be silly creepy instead of scary creepy.


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

deepelemblues said:


> Then they would be silly creepy instead of scary creepy.


I'd find it hilarious yet scary.

I don't understand the "Blood and Soil" stuff. Though I could get behind a Mad Max themed rally based on "Blood and Oil" and supremacy of gas engines over wimpy hybrids and electric cars. Also the superior look of spikes and leather over Dockers, Polo shirts and Gap dresses.


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Beatles123 said:


> Wow. Way to cherry pick, Headliner. You realize we could do the exact same thing for the worst of the left?


What am I cherry picking? All I see is truth. Read the OP again. When that thing happened in Berkeley ya'll were all over it in a right wing circle jerk. Do I need to go back and quote the posts from months ago? But ya'll seem to have a problem calling out the white sympathizers, white nationalists and white supremacists in your own conservative party. 

The fact that my posts got so many people upset and reactive lets me know how much this got ya'll feeling some kind of way. And it's nothing controversial at all. I could be 10 times worse than this and have ya'll calling for my head.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Miss Sally said:


> I'd find it hilarious yet scary.
> 
> I don't understand the "Blood and Soil" stuff. Though I could get behind a Mad Max themed rally based on "Blood and Oil" and supremacy of gas engines over wimpy hybrids and electric cars. Also the superior look of spikes and leather over Dockers, Polo shirts and Gap dresses.


Maybe tiki torches and fluid are expensive in Virginia so they didn't have enough money for the full regalia

Also the best thing to do is just ignore Headliner when he goes full bigot crystal ball reader nah I don't believe you I know you better than you do shut up I can't take you denying how awful you are like this. He'll get over it eventually and go back to building up the internal pressure for his next bigoted explosion.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle (Dec 6, 2011)

Headliner said:


> False. Being pro black is about black empowerment, equality and combating white supremacy.


Please tell me this is just you towing the "lets be disarming to naive white folk so they unwittingly help us" line and not you actually believing that shit? are you honestly suggesting that the majority of "pro black" people arent also way up there on the racism spectrum? that there isnt a "cave beast" here, a "they lack empathy because of their calcified pineal glands" there. Oh wait, I bet you dont believe black people are even capable of racism...right?

Btw I went on your favourite forum TheColi to get some snippets to illustrate what these normal "pro black" folks think and say when they are amongst themselves, and noticed the exact same thread complete with Tariqs tweets was made there right before you made yours here. They're talking about having a race war on it lol. Come on now, fess up, whats your screen name? :jericho3


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Headliner, honestly I thought you were smarter than this. You know this thread was going to be a cllusterfuck. What did you think you would accomplish? You think we'd only see it your way because your way is the "Correct" way to see things. You even had a fellow leftest describe this place as "A lost cause" and you liked it. Why? Because The other opinion is the prevalent one?? I don't even agree that it is and even if I did I'd never call it a lost cause. If I called this place a lost cause for being left wing you wouldn't think so.

Edit: The fact you could be worse just reinforces my belief that all we want in politics is to win. None of us really WANT to understand each other. We all just pretend it until we hit a point we can't let go

You have Black Superemacy RAMPANT in the DNC....but you wouldn't call it that either I guess. You think im talking about simple golk wanting simple things..


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Headliner said:


> What am I cherry picking? All I see is truth. Read the OP again. When that thing happened in Berkeley ya'll were all over it in a right wing circle jerk. Do I need to go back and quote the posts from months ago? But ya'll seem to have a problem calling out the white sympathizers, white nationalists and white supremacists in your own conservative party.
> 
> The fact that my posts got so many people upset and reactive lets me know how much this got ya'll feeling some kind of way. And it's nothing controversial at all. I could be 10 times worse than this and have ya'll calling for my head.


I think this is an issue with both sides. When Antifa was rioting and attacking people, hardly anyone on the Left called them out. Most were saying "punch Nazis" except many of the people hurt weren't Nazis and many were innocent or just peacefully protesting. 

The American Left has purposely ignored the actions of blackbloc and other groups, when guys like Mahr stand up and say there needs to be free speech he gets called a racist. It's simply political tribalism, ignore what your side does but call out the other.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Beatles123 said:


> Headliner, honestly I thought you were smarter than this. You know this thread was going to be a cllusterfuck. What did you think you would accomplish? You think we'd only see it your way because your way is the "Correct" way to see things. You even had a fellow leftest describe this place as "A lost cause" and you liked it. Why? Because The other opinion is the prevalent one?? I don't even agree that it is and even if I did I'd never call it a lost cause. If I called this place a lost cause for being left wing you wouldn't think so.


He wanted it to be a clusterfuck where he could tell everybody all about themselves and ignore anything they say that doesn't fit his bigotry because he has a crystal ball and he knows better than to believe our lying racist asses :heston


----------



## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

deepelemblues said:


> Them dudes are fucking creepy though, that tiki torch shit, like some low-rent wannabe-Nazi rally. People marching with torches = hackles up. Fuck em.


I know some of them good ol boys up in Charlotesville. They know how to make napalm and thermite (I hear it's real easy). This was a bunch of kids wearing shirts with aligators on 'em and carrying tiki torches from fucking Bed Bath and Beyond. Wait to get your hackles up until the Avengers roll down from West By God.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

If I used the term pro-white my ass would be seen as racist as fuck. Pro-Black somehow magically is okay because it can mean something different in certain cases.

If I said I was proud to be white and that I didn't agree with changing white characters to black, is that racist?


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Lesnar Turtle said:


> Please tell me this is just you towing the "lets be disarming to naive white folk so they unwittingly help us" line and not you actually believing that shit? are you honestly suggesting that the majority of "pro black" people arent also way up there on the racism spectrum? that there isnt a "cave beast" here, a "they lack empathy because of their calcified pineal glands" there. Oh wait, I bet you dont believe black people are even capable of racism...right?
> 
> Btw I went on your favourite forum TheColi to get some snippets to illustrate what these normal "pro black" folks think and say when they are amongst themselves, and noticed the exact same thread complete with Tariqs tweets was made there right before you made yours here. They're talking about having a race war on it lol. Come on now, fess up, whats your screen name? :jericho3


:lol Who mentioned that forum? 

Did I say black people aren't capable of racism? No, I didn't because every race is capable of racism. Speaking up against the injustices of white supremacy does not equal racism or racist beliefs. That's where a lot of people got it twisted. 



Miss Sally said:


> I think this is an issue with both sides. When Antifa was rioting and attacking people, hardly anyone on the Left called them out. Most were saying "punch Nazis" except many of the people hurt weren't Nazis and many were innocent or just peacefully protesting.
> 
> The American Left has purposely ignored the actions of blackbloc and other groups, when guys like Mahr stand up and say there needs to be free speech he gets called a racist. It's simply political tribalism, ignore what your side does but call out the other.


I don't care about the radical left or whatever ya'll call it. They're idiots. I only care about the white supremacist in your party.

So we gonna keep finding ways to derail the thread or we going to address the original point from the original post? (Not talking to you Sally)


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Jay Valero said:


> I know some of them good ol boys up in Charlotesville. They know how to make napalm and thermite (I hear it's real easy). This was a bunch of kids wearing shirts with aligators on 'em and carrying tiki torches from fucking Bed Bath and Beyond. Wait to get your hackles up until the Avengers roll down from West By God.


Watching the videos the whole thing is camp. It's why I called them the Antifa of the Right. They're a joke. Who takes this Richard Spenser guy seriously?

Can't even use real torches. They're as lame as the Starbucks drinking, Apple phone using College "Commies". What a bunch of geeks.

:laugh:



Headliner said:


> I don't care about the radical left or whatever ya'll call it. They're idiots. I only care about the white supremacist in your party.
> 
> So we gonna keep finding ways to derail the thread or we going to address the original point from the original post? (Not talking to you Sally)



Not my party but seriously someone from the Right needs to get on the camera and tell these guys that we've had enough embarrassing people saying and doing dumb shit this year and to go home and grow a brain.


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## Smarkout (Apr 9, 2015)

I don't think right wingers have an issue calling out white supremacists, but when you say that they defend them in their "own party" it makes you look like an idiot. People can't have a constructive discussion because people like you attempt to bait others into having an argument rather than a conversation.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Headliner said:


> :lol Who mentioned that forum?
> 
> Did I say black people aren't capable of racism? No, I didn't because every race is capable of racism. Speaking up against the injustices of white supremacy does not equal racism or racist beliefs. That's where a lot of people got it twisted.
> 
> ...


We have addressed it. You know we don't endorse racism and are trying to act like this is mostly what we are, and when we say we aren't, you can say "SEE THIS IS JUSAT LIKE WITH THE ANTIFA THREAD"

You didn't create this so YOU could understand us. you're trying to get us to see what YOU see.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Beatles123 said:


> We have addressed it. You know we don't endorse racism and are trying to act like this is mostly what we are, and when we say we aren't, you can say "SEE THIS IS JUSAT LIKE WITH THE ANTIFA THREAD"
> 
> You didn't create this so YOU could understand us. you're trying to get us to see what YOU see.


It's not about me.

Then why doesn't a lot of the white hate crime get posted here? But ya'll quick to pop shit about Muslims, Hispanics and Blacks? This been going down for years on here let's not act brand new. Just look at how toxic ass Fox News has been on that xenophobic shit.

Or it's some shit about liberals.


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan (May 9, 2017)




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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Headliner said:


> It's not about me.
> 
> Then why doesn't a lot of the white hate crime get posted here? But ya'll quick to pop shit about Muslims, Hispanics and Blacks? This been going down for years on here let's not act brand new. Just look at how toxic ass Fox News has been on that xenophobic shit.
> 
> Or it's some shit about liberals.


Are you kidding me? I see anti-right stuff posted here all the time.

Muslims, Hispanics and Blacks are doing the same thing in reverse. Your doin' it right now. 

The meat of it is YES, we know everyone has their crazies. I also don't believe there weren't sane ones at that gathering.

I really don't see what you gain from this thread other then to try and shame us wrongfully. We already told you we don't endorse those people..


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Beatles123 said:


> Are you kidding me? I see anti-right stuff posted here all the time.
> 
> Muslims, Hispanics and Blacks are doing the same thing in reverse. Your doin' it right now.
> 
> ...


The ratio of anti-right stuff vs everything else is not even close. Again, acting brand new. 






This is what they believe. This is a problem in your party. I remember addressing this with ya'll during the campaign and ya'll basically downplayed it and said ya'll didn't care as long as the votes came in. Now, Trump has came out recently on twitter and condemned this, but really with all the division he's caused over the last few years his words don't have merit outside his base. At least he actually condemned it though.


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

I can't come gather, all these other righty assholes never @ me on their @ lists and I'm not invited to their super secret PM discussions

FeelsBadMan :mj2


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## Lesnar Turtle (Dec 6, 2011)

Headliner said:


> Did I say black people aren't capable of racism? No, I didn't because every race is capable of racism. Speaking up against the injustices of white supremacy does not equal racism or racist beliefs. That's where a lot of people got it twisted.


The problem is the lines are very much blurred. If someone can give me a tangible example of white supremacy and/or an injustice that they are facing based on their skin colour then propose a solution and/or compromise - fine.

If that person thinks i'm a cave dweller with no soul who only achieved anything due to innate privilege and who deserves a bunch of bad shit for stuff that other white people did before I was born. Well, not so sympathetic anymore, in fact ive now got my back up and feel just a little bit more racist and defensive than I did before. Many people (SJWs et al) are willing the bogeyman into existence this way.



Headliner said:


> Then why doesn't a lot of the white hate crime get posted here? But ya'll quick to pop shit about Muslims, Hispanics and Blacks?


Probably because the majority of people here are white. Just the same as how black people arent out on the streets causing a state of emergency when white people get wrongfully killed by cops. Every group has some degree of bias towards their own.


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Just admit you're racist, maybe if you give him what he wants he'll move to another street corner and yell at traffic there :draper2


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Lesnar Turtle said:


> The problem is the lines are very much blurred. If someone can give me a tangible example of white supremacy and/or an injustice that they are facing based on their skin colour then propose a solution and/or compromise - fine.
> 
> If that person thinks i'm a cave dweller with no soul who only achieved anything due to innate privilege and who deserves a bunch of bad shit for stuff that other white people did before I was born. Well, not so sympathetic anymore, in fact ive now got my back up and feel just a little bit more racist and defensive than I did before. Many people (SJWs et al) are willing the bogeyman into existence this way.


So all you did was agree with me. Ok.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896422924839735298
Heil Trump chants. Now if Trump does a national televised speech and publicly shits on them, he just hurt some of his core base. Because they jumped on his dick because of the shit he pulled during the campaign. So which one does he do? The morally right thing? Or the politically feasible thing and avoid it?


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Headliner said:


> The ratio of anti-right stuff vs everything else is not even close. Again, acting brand new.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How the hell can you even suggest we're mostly Right wing on here? There are plenty of liberals here and most of the time they treat us like we're a fucking disease. :lol

I can't even fathom to you how shamed i've felt on this forum. People have wished my family dead, and I've recieved threats from people via PM wanting to beat the shit out of me for even starting the Trump thread. Maybe instead of wanting us to own up to our crazies like we have already, you can first own up to yours. :shrug


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

some people in this thread need to smoke a blunt

like me

*dashes off to the gas station*


----------



## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

http://archive.is/WsEVY#selection-4861.0-4861.69

And lulz were had. :crylol:crylol:crylol


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Jay Valero said:


> http://archive.is/WsEVY#selection-4861.0-4861.69
> 
> And lulz were had. :crylol:crylol:crylol


weirdness level: rising


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Beatles123 said:


> How the hell can you even suggest we're mostly Right wing on here? There are plenty of liberals here and most of the time they treat us like we're a fucking disease. :lol
> 
> I can't even fathom to you how shamed i've felt on this forum. People have wished my family dead, and I've recieved threats from people via PM wanting to beat the shit out of me for even starting the Trump thread. Maybe instead of wanting us to own up to our crazies like we have already, you can first own up to yours. :shrug


I'm talking about the content that's posted. 

Maybe you should have forwarded those PM's to me so I could have dealt with them. Or to another Super Mod or Admin.


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

stop posting so much right-wing content guys

very :triggered

just think, if you post less right-wing content maybe we won't get trash threads like this


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Headliner said:


> I'm talking about the content that's posted.
> 
> Maybe you should have forwarded those PM's to me so I could have dealt with them. Or to another Super Mod or Admin.


It isn't about the PM's! It's about the fact you think we're mostly right wing because of the small group we are when you don't realize the leeft half is just as active and rude as you claim we are. There are plenty of left people here that would sooner beat the shit out of me for any of my opinions, and i know you may not endorse that, but its a problem with YOUR party as much as ours, just in a different and more low key way.


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-08-12-13-52-16

Get the national guard out there start shooting some of these neo-Confederates if they don't back the fuck down. Fuckin wannabe traitors. 

FOR THE UNION


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## downnice (Aug 21, 2013)

Typical you are going to ignore the fact of a BLM member running people over

keep on watching that CNN and MSNBC propaganda


Tariq Nasheed as a source








@Headliner you proved that this website is ran by SJW snowflakes


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Beatles123 said:


> It isn't about the PM's! It's about the fact you think we're mostly right wing because of the small group we are when you don't realize the leeft half is just as active and rude as you claim we are. There are plenty of left people here that would sooner beat the shit out of me for any of my opinions, and i know you may not endorse that, but its a problem with YOUR party as much as ours, just in a different and more low key way.


I get you're doing everything you can to defend and deflect, but that's just not true. If that were true, the anything section that has been on display over the last few years would be radically different. 

Wrestling fans are stereotyped as conservative, bigot, prejudice trash and it's reflection has been seen on this forum many times. 

In just the last 2 and half years alone, 54 warnings & bannings have been given out for racism. The total number of warnings & bannings for racism is 180 going back to February 2008. So as you can see, 30% of warnings & bannings for racism has occurred recently. In fact, on the infraction list, the quantity of warnings and bannings for racism rank 6th for most frequent out of 27 different listed warning and banning violations. If you don't count the spam bot infractions section mods have to use to ban spam bots, the number of violations for racism moves up to number 5 out of 27.

And many of these violations occurred in the anything section and they were quite frankly, Breitbart, Stormfront talking points. 

We don't have to act brand new. We can admit there is a problem.


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

^ story i read said it was counter-protesters who got hit by a car


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## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

Violence is never the answer and racism is absolutely garbage. I don't know what you were expecting "right wingers" to say ...that they hate black people? This is part of the problem in creating an "us vs them" hostile environment among people. You get no where with that and only creates division


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## ForYourOwnGood (Jul 19, 2016)

See what happens when you allow feedom of assembly? The key to good government isn't in fostering free speech, it's in keeping people quiet. The American system is fundamentally flawed, because, at its core, it will always defend the very people who seek to destroy it. Right or left, black or white, the agitators are irrelevant, the question is why they are allowed to assemble, and why the internet has allowed them a platform to spread open sedition against the state.

The internet is the printing press of our day. And just as the printing press allowed radicals like Martin Luther or Matthew Hopkins to sow discord in their own manner, so has the internet empowered every manner of charlatan. This is what free and open societies always degenerate into. Civil disorder is a wider symptom of a decadent and complacent state.


----------



## 2 Ton 21 (Dec 28, 2011)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896429444939878400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896434516260212737
This is getting serious.

*EDIT:*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896432137594949632


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

wait what downnice was 100% wrong i am SHOCKED i tell you


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Headliner said:


> I get you're doing everything you can to defend and deflect, but that's just not true. If that were true, the anything section that has been on display over the last few years would be radically different.
> 
> Wrestling fans are stereotyped as conservative, bigot, prejudice trash and it's reflection has been seen on this forum many times.
> 
> ...


I believe you ban people based om what you perceive to be racism, yes.

I can assuew you you are not the minority on this forum. You think you are, but in reality more people will agree with you than I.


----------



## altreineirialx (Sep 20, 2016)

White Nationalism is like an extended family living together for strength and sharing in wins and loses. Socialism is like a bunch of random strangers decidng to break down your door and have a never ending party in your house.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

It's been reported so far that the car crash into the group of people was toward counter-protesters. I seen the crash and it was violent as hell. I don't know for sure if the victims were counter-protesters though. It seems like it so far.


Beatles123 said:


> I believe you ban people based om what you perceive to be racism, yes.
> 
> I can assuew you you are not the minority on this forum. You think you are, but in reality more people will agree with you than I.


Anything to downplay it. You keep on with it. I'll keep on calling out this white sympathizer/white nationalism/white surpramacist bullshit and rattle some of you in the process like this thread has proven. :toomanykobes


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

When are you guys going to figure out talking with Headliner when he's having a full on racist neurotic breakdown is a complete waste of time


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## 2 Ton 21 (Dec 28, 2011)

Jesus


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896432137594949632


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

streets should have been blocked off, dunno why they weren't

kinda hope when they find the driver they just shoot him. in the gut, no clean death for this dude (or woman).


----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Man I hate extremists on both sides. Whether it's far right or far left, all that happens here is people going to such an extreme where they'll only believe in what they want, filter out everything else, and you end up with violence, hate, racism, and the like. I'm not even a big fan of being on the normal right or left anymore, because I can't even count how many times people will just end up retreating to their side of the line while hurling arguments over said line, with nothing of note being accomplished. It's sad, and while @Headliner is right about the far right having this problem, it doesn't dismiss the problem that the far left has either with these sorts of violent and tumultuous protests. Both sides have a serious problem that should be acknowledged not just by that side, but by *everybody*.


----------



## Laughable Chimp (Sep 1, 2016)

ForYourOwnGood said:


> See what happens when you allow feedom of assembly? The key to good government isn't in fostering free speech, it's in keeping people quiet. The American system is fundamentally flawed, because, at its core, it will always defend the very people who seek to destroy it. Right or left, black or white, the agitators are irrelevant, the question is why they are allowed to assemble, and why the internet has allowed them a platform to spread open sedition against the state.
> 
> The internet is the printing press of our day. And just as the printing press allowed radicals like Martin Luther or Matthew Hopkins to sow discord in their own manner, so has the internet empowered every manner of charlatan. This is what free and open societies always degenerate into. Civil disorder is a wider symptom of a decadent and complacent state.


Because societies which hinder freedom of speech don't ever devolve into some kind of dictatorship in the end.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Dr. Middy said:


> Man I hate extremists on both sides. Whether it's far right or far left, all that happens here is people going to such an extreme where they'll only believe in what they want, filter out everything else, and you end up with violence, hate, racism, and the like. I'm not even a big fan of being on the normal right or left anymore, because I can't even count how many times people will just end up retreating to their side of the line while hurling arguments over said line, with nothing of note being accomplished. It's sad, and while @Headliner is right about the far right having this problem, it doesn't dismiss the problem that the far left has either with these sorts of violent and tumultuous protests. Both sides have a serious problem that should be acknowledged not just by that side, but by *everybody*.


what happens here is every time headliner has a breakdown and does this the right-wing people condemn the violence and hate and get told that they're lying and are really secretly okay with it and that their denial of being racist proves that their feathers are ruffled and they're racist. because headliner has a crystal ball and can't do any better than exhibiting the behavior of a lawyer who only asks "so have you stopped beating your wife?" style questions 

much like in the alcoholics anonymous cult denial is a confirmation of the charge


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

deepelemblues said:


> When are you guys going to figure out talking with Headliner when he's having a full on racist neurotic breakdown is a complete waste of time


When are you going to figure out when to shut the fuck up and stop mis-characterizing me? Now get the fuck out of my thread and whine in rants.

This thread is proving my point continuously.


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## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

This is the first time I've seen these particular protests.

First of all, I can only speak for myself and say that I condemn violence from *all* sides of the political aisle. Honestly, I don't see many if any people from the right here who would agree with or condone the actions of these white nationalist groups or even support them but be that as it may, I'm sure some of the left wing posters on here would disagree.

I think it is important to distinguish and to point out the differences in groups from the left and the right and not just lump in people from the extreme elements of either side. Calling these protestors *"right wing co-members"* isn't going to help anyone and is just going to cause more arguments rather than discussion and understanding. Loosely putting in Conservatives and Libertarians in with this group is quite rightly going to cause backlash. It is no different than the post-modernist/SJW left columnists who everyday put in some benign right wing or even liberal person within the label of alt-right simply because they do not agree with the postmodernist narrative of today.

The same would be if I lumped in antifa members with your normal everyday liberal or progressive. Clearly the former are violent thugs who attack innocent people in the name of "defeating fascism" whilst the latter are perfectly normal peaceful people with certain political opinions and principles. I can get along fine with liberals, but I despise both groups like antifa and groups on the left who play identity politics.

There's two really key themes here, first of all as a couple people already alluded to already, what I think is happening here (and I'm trying to underline the causes of this) is a classic case of shoe horn theory. The far left and right whilst very different in causes and political stances often drift back to the same sorts of tribalism and actions which inevitably causes a clash between the two. You only have to hear the dumbed down chants from both sides to get an idea of exactly what I am talking about. We have two types of groups here: 1) The Social Justice left who have offshoots of different groups for different purposes, namely "anti-fascist" groups, anarchists and black lives matter as examples. 

(I won't put feminists in the same category even though they play identity politics because to my knowledge I've not seen many feminist protests that have turned violent.)

The other is what we have seen in these videos: white identitarian groups. There have been many names for these groups, white nationalists, white supremacists, neo-nazis, neo-confederates. But for the sake loosely putting them together I will label this particular group as *white identitarians* as we are dealing with identity politics as a whole.

Which leads us to the second theme: *identity politics.* Now I personally cannot stand identity politics whether it is played from either the right or the left and have seen many from both sides come out against identity politics as a whole. The events of this protest reflect perfectly on why it is such a cancerous concept as it puts the collective or group identity ahead of the western classical liberal ideal of individualism i.e judging people as individuals on the basis of their content and their character and judging people not on their identity as black or white or hispanic or feminist or transgender but treating people as individuals with their own thoughts and ideas.

What is ironic is that this whole issue actually started with actions which bore directly from the identity politics playbook, that being the removal of the General Lee statue in Charlotteville. This action has been one of many attempts and moves by the post modernists and SJW left of "removing racist history" from the public square despite those statues and other pieces built in memory and often education of the American Civil War. Now personally, I am against these actions too but not for the same reasons as the white identitarians. My reasoning being a historian is that we should learn from these historical events and wars so that the same mistakes are not repeated and that we do not travel down the same roads as our ancestors (I say our....I am British but you get my point :lol). To me it's more about the principle of essentially removing an important part of history from the public sphere in the name of social justice and anti-racism when the purpose of them being there is to educate people on these said events.

You also as we have seen risk there being a response from people who feel as though part of their history or "identity" being taken away from them which has led to these protests. To clarify, this doesn't mean I believe they are right or the reasons for why they protesting are right but that is essentially what has happened.

There is also a realization to address which some of the people including the OP are not going to like in regards to identity politics. That being that it has been the left for years that has been embroiled in identity politics in the public square. Some of the identity politics has been annoying and counter productive but have ultimately peaceful, those being at least from my perspective feminists and those advocating on the behalf of transgender people (though when embroiled with free speech it has sometimes gotten violent). 

Others have been downright nasty, we've had general SJW types who at times have taken their protests too far in the violent direction but most notably we have seen violence come out both from the anti-fascist groups who often are involved in many forms of identitarian groups as well as in left wing anarchism/communism and Black Lives Matter, whose protests have often turned both into calls for violence against police and have turned into violent protests essentially hunting down civilians who are white. Examples being Milwaukee, Baton Rouge and Minnesota.

In relation to these identitarian groups we have seen numerous examples of the far left embroiled in open hostility towards white people. Not even getting into the utterly stupid concept of white privilege, we have seen videos and campaigns from the likes of MTV essentially lumping white people into some homogeneous group in the same way other races in the past have been treated. Again, treating people as identity groups, not judging people on the basis of being free thinking individuals all with different life experiences, principles and ideas.

With this being the norm in today's mainstream world and with it being openly accepted and praised in universities and in the media, it was only a matter of time until the far right also engaged in identity politics in response. This has been brewing for months, we had already seen for example clashes between antifa and the alt-right in Berkeley for example, which essentially boiled down to two groups of neanderthals shouting slogans at each other. We saw of course the infamous "punch a nazi" which the left cheered and proclaimed as an act of heroism for punching Richard Spencer in the face when all he was doing was standing there and talking to journalists and protesters. With Black Lives Matter also having protests which have turned into violent riots with elements of black supremacy in the mix attacking innocent white people as I have already mentioned, you just knew it wouldn't be too long until an event would trigger similar actions from the far right, and we are seeing it unfold as we speak.

Richard Spencer himself has stated that the alt-right is identitarian movement and without identity politics, the alt-right could not exist. The identity politics riddled in today's left wing has emboldened a similar response from the right and has led to a bigger national presence in the US from white identitarian groups in decades. In short, the far right's white identity politics is a reaction to all of the identity politics from the left that I have just identified.

I've laid this out because I want to try and articulate an understanding of what I think is going on in as broad a context as possible. It shouldn't need to be said again but I don't condone the protests and especially the violence towards innocent people. Whilst it will always be their right to protest I hate racism of all forms, whether it's from white nationalist groups or from the violent elements of black lives matter, whether it's hispanic groups @Miss Sally alluded to and so on.

Most of all I hate identity politics, it has been the biggest cancer on political discourse in the last 5 years. It has helped to undermine free speech, has tried to pull the sexes apart through false narratives like the wage gap and rape culture, has polluted discussions about transgenderism and it's complexities and has led to the worst race relations in a number of decades. And with these events the tensions are only going to get worse. I'm just glad in this case I don't live in the US, in the UK thankfully it's nowhere near as severe at least on the violence level.

Until we get back to the grass roots of western ideals, classical liberal thought and individualism; treating people as self autonomous, free thinking individuals and not based on group identity, especially in terms of race then this will not go away. Both the white identitarian and black identitarian movements need to be shelved and binned to the fate of history.


(@ForYourOwnGood; :lmao well played sir, living the gimmick. We need some more humor in this thread).


----------



## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

2 Ton 21 said:


> Jesus
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896432137594949632


That woman looks like she was killed. Hopefully she isn't, thats fucked up


----------



## ForYourOwnGood (Jul 19, 2016)

Laughable Chimp said:


> Because societies which hinder freedom of speech don't ever devolve into some kind of dictatorship in the end.


Do you honestly feel the majority of humans are able to responsibly exercise freedom of speech? I increasingly don't. I think humans work best when ordered like ants and bees, as a hive mind working towards a common goal.
The alternative is that a nation like America can defeat an armed uprising in the South and, for the sake of their own sense of liberty, allow their own citizenry to lionise those rebels and traitors.

There are certainly many personal liberties which are important, it's true, but the freedom to preach racial hatred, or incite public disorder, or casually gather together an armed multitude, are no freedoms at all.
An uninformed, ignorant mob is capable of just as much stupidity as the worst kind of tyrant, as we are now seeing.


----------



## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

The loony left wanted identity politics, they got identity politics.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Jay Valero said:


> http://archive.is/WsEVY#selection-4861.0-4861.69
> 
> And lulz were had. :crylol:crylol:crylol


What's so funny?


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Headliner said:


> It's been reported so far that the car crash into the group of people was toward counter-protesters. I seen the crash and it was violent as hell. I don't know for sure if the victims were counter-protesters though. It seems like it so far.
> 
> Anything to downplay it. You keep on with it. I'll keep on calling out this white sympathizer/white nationalism/white surpramacist bullshit and rattle some of you in the process like this thread has proven. :toomanykobes


No, YOU'RE downplaying ME. You aren't the victim here. It's not 1980 anymore and wrestling isn't just "Conservative". Most on this site are liberal oriented.


----------



## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

I can't tell you all how disappointed I am to see so many words being spent on deflection and finger pointing itt. White nationalists are part of the current right wing movement in the US and abroad. They were courted by politicians for votes and now they feel empowered. Own them. 

I may as well take on one of the arguments here. You want a representative of the left to condemn violent protest on the left. Fine.

*Organizing a political protest with the aim of inciting violence, either among your supporters or from the opposition, is not only disgraceful but also counter-productive.* This applies across all spectra, including "the left".


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

GothicBohemian said:


> I can't tell you all how disappointed I am to see so many words being spent on deflection and finger pointing itt. White nationalists are part of the current right wing movement in the US and abroad. They were courted by politicians for votes and now they feel empowered. Own them.
> 
> I may as well take on one of the arguments here. You want a representative of the left to condemn violent protest on the left. Fine.
> 
> *Organizing a political protest with the aim of inciting violence, either among your supporters or from the opposition, is not only disgraceful but also counter-productive.* This applies across all spectra, including "the left".


I haven't seen a single poster advocate what these people are doing. We just refuse to be baited into this shaming tactic. NO ONE agrees with these people, and @Headliner knows that


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

#notallmuslims but #allwhiteconservatives amirite?


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## 2 Ton 21 (Dec 28, 2011)

Trumps speech about this was shit IMO.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Beatles123 said:


> No, YOU'RE downplaying ME. You aren't the victim here. It's not 1980 anymore and wrestling isn't just "Conservative". Most on this site are liberal oriented.


This reverse victim shit that a lot of you have gotta stop. And I never said I was the victim. 

That's how wrestling fans are stereotyped and it still holds weight today.

We can go back and forth but bringing up liberals or "the left" is a mute point. It's just another way to spin the topic.


Beatles123 said:


> I haven't seen a single poster advocate what these people are doing. We just refuse to be baited into this shaming tactic. NO ONE agrees with these people, and @Headliner knows that


Did I say ya'll all agreed with this conduct? No I didn't.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Headliner said:


> This reverse victim shit that a lot of you have gotta stop. And I never said I was the victim.
> 
> That's how wrestling fans are stereotyped and it still holds weight today.
> 
> ...


That's exactly how you presented this thread though! You act as if we're ignoring this shit. We aren't!

Edit: Why was Downrice banned?


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

Jesus Christ that Faith Goldy video was brutal. I hope they catch that guy, what a hideous act of violence.

Antifa predictably are responding to this. Violence breeds violence. This shit has got to stop.

#IdentityPoliticsisCancer.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

2 Ton 21 said:


> Trumps speech about this was shit IMO.


It was shit. He needed to condemn white nationalism specifically by name. Because if it was Muslims, he would have used "radical Islamic terror" in a heartbeat or if it was Hispanics he would have used some kind of xenophobic rhetoric. But because white nationalist are a core part of his base, he's being politically careful.

While it was proper for him to condemn hate and call for people to unite, his words hold zero weight because all he's done is divide people for the last two years. You can't divide people then call for unity. That causes his words to hold zero credibility. That's his biggest problem. Credibility. If he wants credibility then he should apologize for the shit he's done to cause this division.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

L-DOPA said:


> Jesus Christ that Faith Goldy video was brutal. I hope they catch that guy, what a hideous act of violence.
> 
> Antifa predictably are responding to this. Violence breeds violence. This shit has got to stop.
> 
> #IdentityPoliticsisCancer.


^^^ THIS.

This thread can really end here.


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## altreineirialx (Sep 20, 2016)

The photo also shows the car had also been rear ended no doubt by communist agitators trying to run it off the road, sounds like the drive managed to get out of there.

These Unite the Right individuals are heroes of white nationalism.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Headliner said:


> What's so funny?


Answer my question @Jay Valero.


----------



## Sensei Utero (May 1, 2016)

I'm more left-leaning, but can't we all just get along? :quimby :lol


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## Laughable Chimp (Sep 1, 2016)

ForYourOwnGood said:


> Do you honestly feel the majority of humans are able to responsibly exercise freedom of speech? I increasingly don't. I think humans work best when ordered like ants and bees, as a hive mind working towards a common goal.
> The alternative is that a nation like America can defeat an armed uprising in the South and, for the sake of their own sense of liberty, allow their own citizenry to lionise those rebels and traitors.
> 
> There are certainly many personal liberties which are important, it's true, but the freedom to preach racial hatred, or incite public disorder, or casually gather together an armed multitude, are no freedoms at all.
> An uninformed, ignorant mob is capable of just as much stupidity as the worst kind of tyrant, as we are now seeing.


 The statement that humans work best when ordered like ants and bees is not necessarily true. Thereoretically, having a government which orders people like that could work, however practically there are many problems. For one humans, are not ants and bees and that they are far more individualistic and emotional that they do not like to be controlled to such a high extent. Such governments could and have been shown throughout history shown to be corrupt and biased but the power they have over the majority of men causes any rebellions to be easily crushed and the state simply becomes servants to the people up top. 

I had just finished reading The Republic which covered the topic of how to 
make an ideal state and what the book suggested is similar to what you suggested. However, what I noticed is that the book looked at people almost as nothing but simply resources to fuel the state. The suffering of certain people were ignored and at times actively promoted, everyone was put into a role that they had no choice into for their entire lives, people were controlled and policed at everything from the most minute detail and the children of supposedly "bad" couples were murdered in secret all to ensure that every living person was as productive and as perfect as possible regardless of how happy their lives are. In fact, Plato simply saw human emotion as a hindrance to his ideal state to the point where he effectively suggested brainwashing by controlling the education, and the censoring of speech and past stories so that his people would be brought up as selfless as possible, that their individual happiness would mean nothing and that the welfare of the state is the most important thing in their lives. 

This, is probably the only way such an ideal state could exist, and it starts by having people being ordered like ants, being forced into roles that they might not agree on. And eventually, people will start to rebel against it so you start controlling everything else. From the speech, to the education, to the entertainment. You might have the most perfect state in history, but your society is effectively filled with brainwashed zombies you call citizens. It never gets to this point because of the selfishness and greed of the ruling class who prioritize themselves over the state, but lets just be happy that it never gets there in the first place regardless of reason. And I could just mention the fact that market economies seem to be better at allocating people to roles anyway. At least in terms of the welfare of society, market economies tend to show higher growth rate at least. I haven't checked but standard of living and happiness should be not far behind.

Part of the reason freedom of speech came about was because of the constant censoring of words to even say anything that could be possibly be used against the guys up top. Do I think the majority of humans could responsibly use freedom of speech? Of course not. But I would prefer that far more than a government which curbs speech to only promote its own gains. You see that constantly for example in China right now where the government is actively attacking, censoring and twisting anything which might come it as criticism against it and occasionally blatantly ignoring human rights to do it. The only body which can actually implement any rules against the freedom of speech is the government and regardless of how virtuous the reason might be, there is simply no guarantee that these rules would not be abused in the future by the next generation of administrators. And no one can fight the government. Sure, you get occasional racist mobs like these, but sooner or later we get some backlash from society. Imagine when the governement is actively promoting racism and is stoppingany form of speech trying to fight back against it. Not that they could fight back physically against the government anyway.


In its current form, freedom of speech has in way reduced the effect of speech itself and disorganised it. Sure, people abuse it to use hate speech all the time, but such incidents are relatively small scale. You say an uneducated mob is as bad as a tyrant, but what has these mobs even actually done? In contrast, a tyrant could influence far more people to do far more death and destruction with propaganda campaigns so that people only hear what he wants them to hear as I mentioned previous. No matter how I see it, stopping freedom of speech over a certain point is just a liscence to give governments excessive power for them to abuse and although I recognize the evils of free speech, I think fully free speech is much better than fully regulated speech. Of course a mixed form would probably be most appropriate.

Although frankly, I simply don't care what is best for society. I'm an individual person, and I quite treasure my own personal liberty to say whatever I want so much so that I wouldn't want to give it up ever.


----------



## Red Hair (Aug 17, 2016)

I love how barely anybody has directly commented on the videos, instead they've commented on how @Headliner has "racist neurotic breakdowns" and how he's always posting pro-black material, while contesting why he posted the videos in the first place and trying to ask for bullshit like "context" mj4)



Someone said it earlier, but these kind of threads bring the true colors out of some people on here


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## 2 Ton 21 (Dec 28, 2011)

Headliner said:


> It was shit. He needed to condemn white nationalism specifically by name. Because if it was Muslims, he would have used "radical Islamic terror" in a heartbeat or if it was Hispanics he would have used some kind of xenophobic rhetoric. But because white nationalist are a core part of his base, he's being politically careful.
> 
> While it was proper for him to condemn hate and call for people to unite, his words hold zero weight because all he's done is divide people for the last two years. You can't divide people then call for unity. That causes his words to hold zero credibility. That's his biggest problem. Credibility. If he wants credibility then he should apologize for the shit he's done to cause this division.


All it would have taken was a quick "I do not support nor want the support of white nationalists" and I agree that had this been any other group he would have torn them a new asshole over it. He seemed really uncomfortable talking about any of this. Then there was his quick ego stroke bringing up the economy and unemployment; bad time to do that shit.


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

Where were you when antifa was raging through college campuses, BLM was burning down neighborhoods, and female Trump supporters were getting beaten in the face with sticks? Your phony outrage is duly noted.


----------



## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

"Liberals are the dangerous fascists!!"

"Violence at protests isn't a left or right problem"

"Where were you when antifa was raging through?"

"I'm going to need context on this video"










:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Tater (Jan 3, 2012)

L-DOPA said:


> I think it is important to distinguish and to point out the differences in groups from the left and the right and not just lump in people from the extreme elements of either side. Calling these protestors *"right wing co-members"* isn't going to help anyone and is just going to cause more arguments rather than discussion and understanding. Loosely putting in Conservatives and Libertarians in with this group is quite rightly going to cause backlash. It is no different than the post-modernist/SJW left columnists who everyday put in some benign right wing or even liberal person within the label of alt-right simply because they do not agree with the postmodernist narrative of today.


...kinda like how some people fail to distinguish SJWs from the left, when most SJWs are stupid centrist sheep following center right neoliberal Democrats and are too stupid to know the difference between left and right. ...and how so many people are painfully ignorant of there being 4 corners to the political spectrum, because the libertarian left and right are drastically different from the authoritarian left and right. ...and how people confuse beliefs on social issues with left and right, when a gay loving fascist is still authoritarian right and a gay hating communist is still authoritarian left.

It's so much easier to think in binary terms. Someone considers themselves right, so everyone who disagrees with them must be left, and vice versa. Because that's easy and it doesn't require much brainpower. Because lots of people are fuckin' morons. It's too difficult for them to learn political definitions and find out where people land on the spectrum. That would require more effort than their tiny pea brains are capable of processing. It doesn't matter to these people that most libertarians, be they left or right, view the world more as libertarian vs authoritarian than they do left vs right. Figuring out something like that would require thought and the power of thought is sorely lacking in today's society.


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

2 Ton 21 said:


> Jesus
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896432137594949632


That's some serious cultural appropriation, or was that a driver of peace?


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Jay Valero said:


> Where were you when antifa was raging through college campuses, BLM was burning down neighborhoods, and female Trump supporters were getting beaten in the face with sticks? Your phony outrage is duly noted.





Headliner said:


> Answer my question @Jay Valero.


^


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896409728959606789


----------



## Adam Cool (Oct 1, 2012)

Left Right identity politics is a joke created by French Revolution because it made sense for French politics at the time 

To use it to cover all politics all over the world is stupid


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896424341885333504
Accurate.

That latest video above me by the way is fucking horrifying.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Terrible. This goes back to what I said even before the election last year. There are ALOT of angry people on both sides of this thing. Doesn't look like it's going to end for either side anytime soon, either. It's sad to see.


----------



## Adam Cool (Oct 1, 2012)

L-DOPA said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896424341885333504
> Accurate.
> 
> That latest video above me by the way is fucking horrifying.


----------



## Piers (Sep 1, 2015)




----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Adam Cool said:


>


So in a thread where one of the main problems we figured out is people tossing blanket labels to entire sides of the political spectrum (like all of the left being libtards, or all the right leaning people being racists, etc.), you think this is fitting? 

Just no.


----------



## altreineirialx (Sep 20, 2016)

The truth is those originally hosting the rally had a legal federal permit to protest there, and the counter protesting SJWs did NOT. The national guard broke up the lawful protest done by the alt right and allowed the ANTIFA scum to stay. If you watch the videos most of the violence was caused by the counter protesters who are against free speech.


----------



## Adam Cool (Oct 1, 2012)

Dr. Middy said:


> So in a thread where one of the main problems we figured out is people tossing blanket labels to entire sides of the political spectrum (like all of the left being libtards, or all the right leaning people being racists, etc.), you think this is fitting?
> 
> Just no.


That tweet came off to me as "man leftists and right wing people are so stupid unlike me the enlightened centrist" shit that I am seeing a lot around 
It doesn't help that the Rick and Morty fanbase are cancerous "dude Weed and Science lmao" Redditors


----------



## WalkingInMemphis (Jul 7, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> You have Black Superemacy RAMPANT in the DNC....but you wouldn't call it that either I guess.


:swaggerwhat The DNC bootlickers show up in Black churches every 4 years to learn the electric slide and beg for votes and we never see them again for another 4 years.


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## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

Perpetrator of the vehicular attack in Charlottesville has apparently been identified as Christine Weston Chandler.

Fucking women drivers. fpalm


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Adam Cool said:


> That tweet came off to me as "man leftists and right wing people are so stupid unlike me the enlightened centrist" shit that I am seeing a lot around
> It doesn't help that the Rick and Morty fanbase are cancerous "dude Weed and Science lmao" Redditors


I don't watch Rick and Morty so I wouldn't know. 

I think the tweet was more reflective of the extremists of both sides and calling them stupid more than anything. The majority of liberals and conservatives are just normal people with differing political opinions, like most of us here.

I mean, I'm a centrist myself, mostly because I agree with multiple things on either side of the line, and would rather have opinions and viewpoints that aren't tied down to one side. I never like to come off as enlightened or some crap like that, just that I never agree with the majority of opinions of either side.

Also apologies for being a bit snippy, I'm really getting pissed off reading about all this stuff.


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

Dr. Middy said:


> I think the tweet was more reflective of the extremists of both sides and calling them stupid more than anything. The majority of liberals and conservatives are just normal people with differing political opinions, like most of us here.


Exactly the point, or to be more blunt: Collectivists from both sides suck.

I let the response go though as I do think it's a funny meme.


----------



## FatherJackHackett (Apr 11, 2016)

I don't know enough about this thing at the moment to comment with any authority on it, but what I will say is that it has been smeared all over the media in the UK, and the talking heads on the biased BBC 'news' can barely contain their glee talking about 'white nationalism' and 'alt right'. Nothing really wrong with this taken in isolation, but when Antifa and Black Lives Matter go around destroying entire towns you barely hear a fucking peep out of them. Sick to the back teeth of this bullshit FFS.


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Beatles123 said:


> Headliner, honestly I thought you were smarter than this. You know this thread was going to be a cllusterfuck. What did you think you would accomplish? You think we'd only see it your way because your way is the "Correct" way to see things. You even had a fellow leftest describe this place as "A lost cause" and you liked it. Why? Because The other opinion is the prevalent one?? I don't even agree that it is and even if I did I'd never call it a lost cause. If I called this place a lost cause for being left wing you wouldn't think so.
> 
> Edit: The fact you could be worse just reinforces my belief that all we want in politics is to win. None of us really WANT to understand each other. We all just pretend it until we hit a point we can't let go
> 
> You have Black Superemacy RAMPANT in the DNC....but you wouldn't call it that either I guess. You think im talking about simple golk wanting simple things..


I knew it would be a clusterfuck. Because many people have been exposed to their true feelings on race both politically and socially in this thread. From the sympathizers who continuously bring up liberals, the left, BLM, etc as a deflection tactic, to those who are sensitive and assuming I'm automatically attacking white people as an entire race for pointing out some real shit. Even though I've made clear that it's not the case. 

I do this from time to time. I wreck shit. I make you guys feel uncomfortable. Haven't you figured that out yet? It's not out of malice toward any of you, it's to bring this shit to the table and not put it under the rug and see what ya'll are really about when it's gametime.


----------



## Jedah (Jul 16, 2017)

Hearing that the driver was ANTIFA.

Regarding labels, I'll quote Scott Adams who calls it "word-thinking:"



> Rational People: Use data and reason to arrive at truth. (This group is mostly imaginary.)
> 
> Word-Thinkers: Use labels, word definitions, and analogies to create the illusion of rational thinking. This group is 99% of the world.
> 
> Persuaders: Use simplicity, repetition, emotion, habit, aspirations, visual communication, and other tools of persuasion to program other people and themselves. This group is about 1% of the population and effectively control the word-thinkers of the world.





> Word-thinking is important to persuasion because if you can convince someone to accept a label on an opponent, it turns off their critical thought and turns on their confirmation bias. Nuance is lost. Context is lost. All that matters once the label is accepted is whatever qualities the label already contained.


Astonishingly accurate and something I've put to use in my own copywriting.

Persuaders know that people live in their own movies and to sell to them based on that. Here (sometimes even in this thread) we see two movies colliding - the one movie where everything is racist and the protagonist must combat this scourge wherever it is, and the other where Richard Spencer and his band of glorious merry men are going to save ****** from some kind of evil.

The rhetoric fuels the movies in each party and needs to be deescalated. If I were trying to persuade them to stop I would try to probe their idealism, emphasize that pattern recognition isn't as clear cut as people tend to think it is, and try to detach their movies from these words.

(Although that's only off the top of my head.)



> I don't know enough about this thing at the moment to comment with any authority on it, but what I will say is that it has been smeared all over the media in the UK, and the talking heads on the biased BBC 'news' can barely contain their glee talking about 'white nationalism' and 'alt right'. Nothing really wrong with this taken in isolation, but when Antifa and Black Lives Matter go around destroying entire towns you barely hear a fucking peep out of them. Sick to the back teeth of this bullshit FFS.


Yep, the media definitely fuels this stuff and only reinforces the polarization. I blame the media for a large part of this shit.


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## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

They have the person in custody but I wonder why they wont release any real details of the person. Usually they're on top of that


----------



## Adam Cool (Oct 1, 2012)

Dr. Middy said:


> I don't watch Rick and Morty so I wouldn't know.
> 
> I think the tweet was more reflective of the extremists of both sides and calling them stupid more than anything. The majority of liberals and conservatives are just normal people with differing political opinions, like most of us here.
> 
> ...


The problem is that not just "Nazis and Commies" can be extremists who resort to violence 
The ones in those protests are likely conservatives not National Socialists , many violent leftists are actually "socially liberal fiscally conservative" not Socialists 

And many people who get called "extremists" are actually people who hold non mainstream point if views regardless of how respectful they are to people they disagree with , look at How someone like say Zizek gets compared to dictators because he disagrees with mainstream European politics . 

And no need to apologize


----------



## Ruth (Apr 18, 2010)

http://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/6rsng3/unite_the_right_in_charlottesville_next_week/

previously stickied thread


----------



## Sensei Utero (May 1, 2016)

If Trump bans that coward Bret from entering America, I will happily take back everything I've said negatively about him and give him my undying support no matter what his choices are :trump


----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Adam Cool said:


> The problem is that not just "Nazis and Commies" can be extremists who resort to violence
> The ones in those protests are likely conservatives not National Socialists , many violent leftists are actually "socially liberal fiscally conservative" not Socialists
> 
> And many people who get called "extremists" are actually people who hold non mainstream point if views regardless of how respectful they are to people they disagree with , look at How someone like say Zizek gets compared to dictators because he disagrees with mainstream European politics .
> ...


I think there's a higher chance of the extremist sides of things resorting to violence, but technically speaking any conservative or liberal could easy become violent on the basis of their beliefs. The vast majority don't, because I wouldn't really call them extremists. You can be a very dedicated member of either side while still being a decent person who isn't going to resort to violence over somebody's beliefs or opinions. 

And yes, the "extremist" tagline can be thrown around too much sometimes. Somebody like Zizek (who I actually was unaware of, but looked up and kinda get his views), seems more like a person rooted into his radical beliefs, but generally still nonthreatening towards others. Where it becomes extremism to me is when somebody starts to become threatening (on the border of violence) and fails to listen to any other opinion which they disagree with.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

I 100% condemn any right winger that supports this white supremacist rally - because really that's what it is. I'm tired of people excusing shitty behavior of any and all tribal groups no matter what those groups represent if those groups indulge in any form of violence. 

Though I don't think that it needs to be said. 

Any group that gets violent (and in this case engages in acts that are as close to violence and fear-mongering such as this) is a piece of shit group and their members as well as their unifying ideology is cancerous and must be whole-heartedly condemned and torn to shreds. I would say the same if it were muslims, christians, hindus, buddhists, whites, blacks, women, men, chinese .. whatever. If your ideology requires you to resort to violence of any kind, then you're a scourge on humanity and must be countered with strong words and condemnation ... and the full extent of the law. 

If Trump has refused to label them as white supremacist terror groups then he's just plain wrong and avoiding confronting the issue ... same as others have claimed about Obama and other leaders not directly confronting Islam and its relation to breeding terror or other groups that got violent under their charge. 

Any ideology that breeds terror and violence is a terrible ideology because they know that it can't be countered otherwise. Be consistent. If a group has a cancerous ideology, then the ideology and that entire group in particular is responsible. Accept it and correct it because all it does is breed more divisiveness and comes to a head exactly like this. 

Maybe the government did ease up on right wing extremist groups. We have to consider the possibility and rectify because whatever we were doing for decades worked and complacency allows such groups to come back in force.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Jedah said:


> Hearing that the driver was ANTIFA.


WHAT? Where did you hear that? I did read that it was a woman, but didn't hear that.


----------



## Jedah (Jul 16, 2017)

It's been making the rounds with people that have generally been reliable, with some pictures in toe. But I can't confirm anything yet.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

WalkingInMemphis said:


> :swaggerwhat The DNC bootlickers show up in Black churches every 4 years to learn the electric slide and beg for votes and we never see them again for another 4 years.


That's what im talking about though. The DNC will easily cater to Black americans and left-leaning Black groups will push certain agendas under the guise of "Fairness" toward them. They are being conned by the DNC yet will still vote for them.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Then again, im one of those that don't see robert E. Lee as a symbol of racism but AAAAAAAAYYY im just a right leaning *********, right? :trump


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Beatles123 said:


> Then again, im one of those that don't see robert E. Lee as a symbol of racism but AAAAAAAAYYY im just a right leaning *********, right? :trump


Just because history is a bad thing, that doesn't mean it should be removed. It helps to remind us of terrible things that happened in the past, and why we should learn not to repeat them.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Headliner said:


> I knew it would be a clusterfuck. Because many people have been exposed to their true feelings on race both politically and socially in this thread. From the sympathizers who continuously bring up liberals, the left, BLM, etc as a deflection tactic, to those who are sensitive and assuming I'm automatically attacking white people as an entire race for pointing out some real shit. Even though I've made clear that it's not the case.
> 
> I do this from time to time. I wreck shit. I make you guys feel uncomfortable. Haven't you figured that out yet? It's not out of malice toward any of you, it's to bring this shit to the table and not put it under the rug and see what ya'll are really about when it's gametime.


You really don't wreck shit though. you only think you do and display a pompus attitude while doing so. Carrying yourself in this manner doesn't convince me you're right. When was the last time anyone acting like that convinced YOU ro change your argument?


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Dr. Middy said:


> Just because history is a bad thing, that doesn't mean it should be removed. It helps to remind us of terrible things that happened in the past, and why we should learn not to repeat them.


At the same time, when we venerate symbols to the point of resorting to violence to protect them, or destroy them we're still acting like cultists. 

Meaning is assigned. Symbols of history don't have innate value imo and they don't deserve to either be destroyed or to exist ... 

My point is that it's all irrelevant and just being used as an excuse to act like lower forms of humans on both sides. 

For once I'm like dead center.


----------



## WalkingInMemphis (Jul 7, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> That's what im talking about though. The DNC will easily cater to Black americans and left-leaning Black groups will push certain agendas under the guise of "Fairness" toward them. They are being conned by the DNC yet will still vote for them.


But you said that the DNC was "full of black supremacy" (paraphrasing) and that's just not the case. Not even close. The DNC _might_ espouse a few ideas that sound good to blacks folks, but they never follow through and for the most part they've moved on to courting gays and immigrants.

They (I guess, we) are being conned by the DNC, but is there anything compelling from the other side? I know more black people that are becoming more and more libertarian every year, because conservatives and libs are just two sides of the same coin.


----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Reaper said:


> At the same time, when we venerate symbols to the point of resorting to violence to protect them, or destroy them we're still acting like cultists.
> 
> Meaning is assigned. Symbols of history don't have innate value imo and they don't deserve to either be destroyed or to exist ...
> 
> ...


The statue at this point is really just a cog in the wheel of these protests, and really have little significance, I agree. 

Historical symbols really are just memorabilia of the past, if anything. I see nothing wrong with them on a fundamental level (everybody has historical items they cherish or like, including myself!), but instead see a problem with people who will use said history to fuel their own despicable, violent, and fear-mongering agenda.


----------



## Jay Valero (Mar 13, 2017)

ShowStopper said:


> WHAT? Where did you hear that? I did read that it was a woman, but didn't hear that.


I heard it was a ****** that writes Sonic the hedgehog fanfic.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

WalkingInMemphis said:


> But you said that the DNC was "full of black supremacy" (paraphrasing) and that's just not the case. Not even close. The DNC _might_ espouse a few ideas that sound good to blacks folks, but they never follow through and for the most part they've moved on to courting gays and immigrants.
> 
> They (I guess, we) are being conned by the DNC, but is there anything compelling from the other side? I know more black people that are becoming more and more libertarian every year, because conservatives and libs are just two sides of the same coin.


I wouldn't WANT them to follow through on the radical rhetoric they spout. They are the side perpetuating the identity politics They invented the "White male" Meme and are the ones funding the more radical sects of BLM, not to mention ANTIFA. That's more Black-supremacist than white supremacist :shrug

I fully support, however, going libertarian :trump #TaxationIsTheft


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896505249120243713


Spoiler: Depiction of violence





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896432137594949632




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896499739822260224


----------



## Captain Edd (Dec 14, 2011)

Why are they carrying tiki torches? Our protesters throw beer bottles and bricks, never seen one with a torch


----------



## krai999 (Jan 30, 2011)

Laughable Chimp said:


> I still have no idea wtf is the difference between the left wing and right wing.
> 
> Edit:After reading a basic definition of both, I seem to prefer the right-wing.


Right wing- supposed to be for less government control and lower taxes

left wing supposed to be for government control and higher taxes


----------



## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

ShowStopper said:


> WHAT? Where did you hear that? I did read that it was a woman, but didn't hear that.


It sounds like they got the wrong person as that person kept writing. It's uncertain who the hell was driving as the police don't seem intent yet to release the information who was actually driving . I too heard that it was a woman, but who knows at this point


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I watched the Faith Goldy video and cannot stomach watching any more. even thinking about all this at all makes me feel ill. at least if it was non-violent I'd just be able to laugh at them for the stupid goons they are. 



Don Quixote said:


> I love how barely anybody has directly commented on the videos, instead they've commented on how @Headliner has "racist neurotic breakdowns" and how he's always posting pro-black material, while contesting why he posted the videos in the first place and trying to ask for bullshit like "context"


but, the OP is mostly about right wingers/hypocrisy/etc instead of being about the rally. Headliner barely commented on the videos himself at first, and the thread is called "Right Wingers, Come Gather." 

um, do you yourself have any posts commenting on what happened at the rally or...? you came in here to say "nobody is talking about this" and then preceded to not talk about it?


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

I watch Tariq sometimes and don't agree with everything he says but he is damn sure right about one thing. White supremacist tactic number 1 is deflection. Clear by this thread


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## Nolo King (Aug 22, 2006)

I don't get why right-wingers such as myself keep being associated with hate groups such as these..

The left also behaves erratically, but it's not representative of everyone in that group.

Every side has bad apples and it would be foolish to think otherwise.

If you want to discuss which side is better, there are far more positive arguments for right-wingers than the left...


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Captain Edd said:


> Why are they carrying tiki torches? Our protesters throw beer bottles and bricks, never seen one with a torch


Americans suck at protests. Can't even find a middle ground either, start off with a buncha nerds screaming dumb slogans into a megaphone, then go straight to running people over with cars. At least set fire to a damn police car first, fuck.


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## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

KingCosmos said:


> I watch Tariq sometimes and don't agree with everything he says but he is damn sure right about one thing. White supremacist tactic number 1 is deflection. Clear by this thread


His criteria for what makes a white supremacist is very ridiculous, don't listen to him. This is the same guy who made a logo that was a swastika and claimed the movie the planet of the apes was trying to purposely insult a BLM member because an ape was wearing a blue vest.... he's not someone who should be taken seriously


----------



## .MCH (Dec 1, 2008)

Nolo King said:


> I don't get why right-wingers such as myself keep being associated with hate groups such as these..
> 
> The left also behaves erratically, but it's not representative of everyone in that group.
> 
> ...


This is absolutely ridiculous and another pathetic attempt at trying to deflect.


----------



## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

Nolo King said:


> I don't get why right-wingers such as myself keep being associated with hate groups such as these..
> 
> The left also behaves erratically, but it's not representative of everyone in that group.
> 
> ...


After watching the videos and seeing the news, there are certain people that I don't want in my side of the political aisle. Racist fuckwads and apologists like that dipshit Styx can fuck off and die. I have believed all my life in conservative principles and values and I don't want cowards and racist twatwaffles on my side in discussions. There is no justification for violence here, period. This had nothing to do with self defense either but folks who were itching for a fight. And anyone who wants to try to justify this with stupid nonsense can choke on a dick and die as well.


----------



## Ben Lister (Jul 7, 2017)

I really do hate politics, brings out the worst in people. Fuck you all who actually consider yourself to be far in either side your a piece of shit. But yeah fuck racism and any body that condones it.


----------



## The Absolute (Aug 26, 2008)

Greetings all. Black person who voted for Trump here. Just a few things I want to say:

1. I condemn those white supremacists. Can't claim to be a group for solidarity and peace when you're shouting racial slurs, giving the Nazi salute while yelling "Heil Trump!", and _literally attacking black people in the streets._ (That's right, Liner, I watched all the videos you posted.) That's gang violence & racism and they've shown us that they're just as bad as the BLM movement. (And since most of them probably criticize & deride BLM on a daily basis, that also makes them hypocrites.)

2. I'm absolutely horrified by that car video. It goes to show the great lengths people are willing to go just to harm those they disagree with. Enough with the fucking violence - *we need more civil political discourse in this goddamn country.* We need more people on both sides who are willing to sit down and calmly talk to those with dissenting beliefs/opinions/ideas. That's the only way we can heal and come together as one nation, because completely silencing the opposition with violence sure as hell ain't working.

3. All in all, as others have pointed out in this thread, these events have shown that extremism (be it far-left or far-right) is cancerous and both sides are equally guilty for the racial tension and political polarization that has arisen in our country, as well as the violence & death that has resulted from it.

Terrible situation all-around. I'm ashamed at what my fellow American citizens are doing to each other. A bunch of disgusting, reprehensible geeks they are.

:bunk


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896442555969220608


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*White terrorism doesn't exist though @Headliner. We should just ban more Muslim countries that have done absolutely nothing to us.*


----------



## Nolo King (Aug 22, 2006)

.MCH said:


> This is absolutely ridiculous and another pathetic attempt at trying to deflect.


Huh?

What I wrote was completely sensible.

Are these protestors how you perceive every right winger? 

I'm a chocolate man with conservative principles and get a lot of flack for it because I actually respect police officers, believe in equal opportunity instead of putting designated groups on a pedestal, and prefer that funds aren't wasted on social justice projects that won't improve the country..

How am I deflecting? If you honestly believe that every right-winger is responsible for the actions of some ignorant folk, then I don't know what to tell you. This entire thread was created by someone insecure about their beliefs and looking to generalize the other so they get some comfort.

The entire discussion is silly to me..


----------



## Steve Black Man (Nov 28, 2015)

So a racist psychopath plows into a bunch of people, and the OP's first reaction try and antagonize the people on one side of the political spectrum?

You keep being you, WF :eva2

Anyways, it was horrible, cowardly, disgusting act of terrorism. I believe in due process and all that, but sometimes a person just deserves to fucking fry. This is certainly one of those times.


----------



## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

Legit BOSS said:


> *White terrorism doesn't exist though @Headliner. We should just ban more Muslim countries that have done absolutely nothing to us.*


Timothy McVeigh
Terry Nichols 
Ted Kaczynski

Are just a couple of white people who were terrorists and white.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Stinger Fan said:


> Timothy McVeigh
> Terry Nichols
> Ted Kaczynski
> 
> Are just a couple of white people who were terrorists and white.


OKC bombers were called terrorists and were the hallmark of such for a long time.

The Unibomber was also called a terrorist.

The Boston Bombers were called terrorists, while from some Eastern European hellhole they looked white to me.


----------



## Stephen90 (Mar 31, 2015)

The OP clearly doesn't a damn about the victims. That being said this tragedy is horrible.


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Beatles123 said:


> You really don't wreck shit though. you only think you do and display a pompus attitude while doing so. Carrying yourself in this manner doesn't convince me you're right. When was the last time anyone acting like that convinced YOU ro change your argument?


Seeing ya'll reactions is more than enough proof of the damage caused. The sensitivity, defense, deflect, spin attitudes were clearly visible. It's funny because these are the same people that call liberals snowflakes right? 

And really I don't give a fuck if you think I have a pompus attitude.

This is how white nationalist/supremacists are taking Trump's comments. They view it as a victory. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896492127911149568


----------



## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

*So how many people are dead over pure fucking stupidity?*


----------



## Steve Black Man (Nov 28, 2015)

Stephen90 said:


> The OP clearly doesn't a damn about the victims. That being said this tragedy is horrible.


Indeed.

It's a sad state of affairs when peoples first instinct when a tragedy hits is to use it to further their own political agenda. We saw it after stabbings in London with Trump's tweets about "gun control", and we're seeing it here. It's the same thing.

But that's just the world we live in. Some people will jump at the chance to build their argument on the graves of the deceased.


----------



## Laughable Chimp (Sep 1, 2016)

krai999 said:


> Right wing- supposed to be for less government control and lower taxes
> 
> left wing supposed to be for government control and higher taxes


Lol wat? Wikipedia talkis something about right wing being that certain social orders and hiearchies are desirable while left wing wants to promote egalitarianism and equality.


----------



## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

Miss Sally said:


> OKC bombers were called terrorists and were the hallmark of such for a long time.
> 
> The Unibomber was also called a terrorist.
> 
> The Boston Bombers were called terrorists, while from some Eastern European hellhole they looked white to me.


Absolutely. Weren't they basically the face of terrorism or at least domestic terrorism in the USA until 9/11? Weren't the Boston Bombers from Chechen? I'm not quite sure where that puts them ethnically but its by or in Russia (forgive my ignorance)



AryaDark said:


> *So how many people are dead over pure fucking stupidity?*


From reports, 1 dead and 19 injured from the car and another 2 people were killed in a plane . Where they come in I have no clue

Edit - 

_2 police personnel dead after helicopter crashes near Charlottesville,Virginia rally

Virginia State Police said Saturday that pilot Lt. H. Jay Cullen, 48, and trooper-pilot Berke M.M. Bates died at the scene.

"Our state police and law enforcement family at-large are mourning this tragic outcome to an already challenging day," said Colonel W. Steven Flaherty, Virginia State Police Superintendent in a news release. "Lieutenant Cullen was a highly-respected professional aviator and Trooper-Pilot Bates was a welcome addition to the Aviation Unit, after a distinguished assignment as a special agent with our Bureau of Criminal Investigation. Their deaths are a tremendous loss to our agency and the Commonwealth."

Cullen graduated from the Virginia State Police Academy in May 1994 as a member of the 90th Basic Session, he is survived by his wife and two sons.

Burks would have turned 41-years-old on Sunday graduated from the Virginia State Police Academy in August 2004 as a member of the 107th Basic Session and just transferred to the Aviation Unit in July.

Officials said the incident may have been linked to the rally held earlier in the day; however, it was not immediately clear how the crash was connected.

Virginia State Police said Saturday that the helicopter crashed in a wooded area near a home around 5 p.m.

The National Transportation Safety Board and Virginia State Police are investigating the crash._

http://abc7ny.com/2-dead-after-helicopter-crashes-near-violent-va-rally-/2301357/


----------



## Adam Cool (Oct 1, 2012)

Miss Sally said:


> OKC bombers were called terrorists and were the hallmark of such for a long time.
> 
> The Unibomber was also called a terrorist.
> 
> The Boston Bombers were called terrorists, while from some Eastern European hellhole they looked white to me.





Stinger Fan said:


> Absolutely. Weren't they basically the face of terrorism or at least domestic terrorism in the USA until 9/11? Weren't the Boston Bombers from Chechen? I'm not quite sure where that puts them ethnically but its by or in Russia (forgive my ignorance)
> 
> 
> From reports, 1 dead and 19 injured from the car and another 2 people were killed in a plane . Where they come in I have no clue


Most Chechen would kill you for calling them European or Russians


----------



## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

Adam Cool said:


> Most Chechen would kill you for calling them European or Russians


I do know they take their identity very seriously I just have no clue where that puts them is all


----------



## Born of Osiris (Oct 29, 2013)

Steve Black Man said:


> Indeed.
> 
> It's a sad state of affairs when peoples first instinct when a tragedy hits is to use it to further their own political agenda. We saw it after stabbings in London with Trump's tweets about "gun control", and we're seeing it here. It's the same thing.
> 
> But that's just the world we live in. Some people will jump at the chance to build their argument on the graves of the deceased.


Anything section in a nutshell. :lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/anything/2219321-crazed-anti-trumper-shoots-kills-gop-neighbor.html

did...anyone notice this thread where an anti-Trump fanatic shot and killed a GOP committeeman?

where are all the right wingers flooding that thread and yelling about liberals? where are the left wingers/anti-Trump people condemning it? where is anyone but the three people who posted in the thread? should I be able to use that thread's lack of reaction from anti-Trump people as a way to prove something about them?


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

AryaDark said:


> *So how many people are dead over pure fucking stupidity?*


Doesn't matter the number, any number than zero is too high for this idiocy.


----------



## Steve Black Man (Nov 28, 2015)

What kind of idiot plows their car through a crowd of people anyways? Did the dude have a history of mental illness or erratic behavior before this?


----------



## altreineirialx (Sep 20, 2016)

Man, that SJW took some windshield.


----------



## Steve Black Man (Nov 28, 2015)

altreineirialx said:


> Man, that SJW took some windshield.


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Steve Black Man said:


> So a racist psychopath plows into a bunch of people, and the OP's first reaction try and antagonize the people on one side of the political spectrum?


Actually my original post was way before the plow crash happened. Please get your shit together before coming at me.


----------



## Adam Cool (Oct 1, 2012)

Stinger Fan said:


> I do know they take their identity very seriously I just have no clue where that puts them is all


There isn't really a United identity for people from the Caucasus region so it's complicated 
Some see themselves as European , some middle Eastern , some their own ethnicity without any greater group


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

so someone actually died during one if the car incidents. fuck's sake. sometimes I wonder what life would be like if I was a completely different person in a completely different body, and then I think no matter where I'd end up, I still wouldn't be a braindead retard like thousands of politically driven insane fuckheads. 2012 should have happened.


----------



## WalkingInMemphis (Jul 7, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> I wouldn't WANT them to follow through on the radical rhetoric they spout.


Radical? How? Examples?



Beatles123 said:


> They are the side perpetuating the identity politics They invented the "White male" Meme and are the ones funding the more radical sects of BLM, not to mention ANTIFA. That's more Black-supremacist than white supremacist :shrug


I guess. BLM is Soros funded. Not DNC. They don't have enough fucks to give for that. I never even heard of ANTIFA until today.



Beatles123 said:


> I fully support, however, going libertarian :trump #TaxationIsTheft


Please don't do that. The DNC has definitely soured on me and many others, but, I would never support Trump in any form or fashion. Libertarians were disgusted when he bombed the Syrian airfields.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Headliner said:


> Seeing ya'll reactions is more than enough proof of the damage caused. The sensitivity, defense, deflect, spin attitudes were clearly visible. It's funny because these are the same people that call liberals snowflakes right?
> 
> And really I don't give a fuck if you think I have a pompus attitude.
> 
> ...


Of course those who disagree are just "Deflecting". Thats anyone's go-to conclusion anymore. I could say you're deflecting by saying you don't care about your attitude. Maybe if you did more would actually listen to you instead of you sounding like, quite frankly, a cunt. Just being honest. It's hard not to read from you and think your opinions have just as much hatred coming from them as these protesters. :shrug I don't harbour any toward you but I think you do toward us. You thought we supported this shit, and the only way you'd think that is if you had this idea in your head of the kind of people we are. I'm sorry, but if you could check yourself a minute you'd realize no one's getting "Wrecked" in here. Not me, certainly. Even if I was in your mind, does it really matter? Do you think anyone here thinks "Oh, shit! Headliner's laughing at me. I must be wrong!"? You certainly don't seem like you care what *WE* think. 

You told someone to fuck off for mis-characterizing you. I don't think that's his fault. I think it's yours.


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Beatles123 said:


> Of course those who disagree are just "Deflecting". Thats anyone's go-to conclusion anymore. I could say you're deflecting by saying you don't care about your attitude. Maybe if you did more would actually listen to tou ibstead of you sounding like, quite frankly, a cunt. Just being honest. It's hard not to read from you and think your opinions have just as much hatred coming from them as these protesters. :shrug
> 
> You told someone to fuck off for mis-characterizing you. I don't think that's his fault. I think it's yours.


Nah he knew what he was doing. He's done that several times. And to be technical, I told him to shut the fuck up. 

You talked about my attitude and I responded to it. That's not spinning anything. 

What's there for me to listen to? Those who condemn this are fine in my book. But you got clown ass people in here trying to move goal posts and be on some bullshit and I'm not having it.


----------



## Steve Black Man (Nov 28, 2015)

Headliner said:


> Actually my original post was way before the plow crash happened. Please get your shit together before coming at me.


Ahh, fair enough.



Steve Black Man said:


> So a racist psychopath plows into a bunch of people, and the OP's reaction, though not necessarily his "first" reaction, is to try and antagonize the people on one side of the political spectrum?


Better?


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Steve Black Man said:


> Ahh, fair enough.
> 
> 
> 
> Better?


Did you read the entire thread? Every post?


----------



## Post-Modern Devil (Jan 26, 2010)

I not even going to waste one iota of a second virtue signaling about how _*eeeeeeviiiiiiil*_ those racist right wingers are. I refuse to side with the lying illiberal left in regards to anything as long as they continue to scream about Trump, the only hope this ****ing country has at this point, being evil incarnate. In the long run issues with racism in this country can be improved but not when liberals go and pick a fight with _everyone_ who isn't a far left maniac completely lock step with their extreme diversity cult.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Political violence is heinous and what's interesting to me is that most of the so-called "alt-right" seem to be such ignorant-of-history people, many of them were lefties who voted for Obama back in the day but took some cold, hard looks at demographic trends and realized that, as with California today, the decreased percentage of white voters means the future is fundamentally apart from what they have known politically with two fully functioning political parties. The term "the zeal of the convert" comes to mind. Imagine the depths one has to sink to think, "I will walk around with a torch and give Roman salutes and that'll make people interested in joining my movement." Granted, many "alt-right" people are from what I gather from cursory studying of their movement national socialists who like their German predecessors are in fact attempting to instill a sort of martial order vis-a-vis Roman traditions such as the marching with lit torches bit. It says a lot about the U.S. today that politically its future tends to resemble Weimar Germany with young, radicalized proto-fascists and young, radicalized proto-communists (antifa) fighting it out in the streets. 


@L-DOPA offered a comprehensive post concerning identity politics. It's as the former PM of Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew, noted: "In multiracial societies, you don't vote in accordance with your economic interests and social interests, you vote in accordance with race and religion." Many "disaffected young white men" have recently been attracted to the ideologies or programs espoused by both Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump; evidently the driver of the Dodge Charger was a longtime Bernie supporter who became a Republican about a year ago and voted for Trump in the presidential election. 

Symbolism will play a part in any social construct in which certain Platonic ideals are preserved. The U.S. has been undergoing a sort of neo-Jacobin revolution, or as Aristotle put it, a "revolution within the form." Removals of, say, statues of Confederate heroes is but one of the myriad and most transparent examples. Politics at its basest becomes about Jungian archetypes; it's why a couple of radicalized black men shot up police officers following a couple of controversial instances of deadly force used against black men in Louisiana and Minnesota, and it's why this Robert E. Lee statue has become but one focal point in the ongoing racial-ideological dialectic. 

The violence committed by a bunch of these alt-right goons in Charlottesville is horrendous and all parties responsible for said violence should receive the maximum penalties attached to such wanton law-breaking and attacking of social order. Same thing goes for the members of antifa who according to some reports threw bricks at some of the original protesters. Like Simon Oakland said in _West Side Story_, you want to kill each other? Fine, kill each other! But do so in a jail cell. (That last part is joking facetiousness.) 

Spending much of today reading Alphonso the Learned. While many atheists would disagree with the specifics of the point, the older I become the more I tend to believe that society as we know it in the West became altogether less pleasant once the power of the church and nobility were both reduced, first based on the demands of individualism and liberalism, and then the overpowering might of the newly-minted nation-state as Nietzsche described such in the nineteenth century, well before the old empires fell with the Great War. As Alphonso notes, "The Law-Maker should love God and keep Him before his eyes when he makes the laws, in order that they must be just and perfect. He should moreover love justice and common benefit of all." Alphonso the Learned believed in the elasticity of human relationships and understanding of same as time passes: "He should be learned, in order to know how to distinguish right from wrong, and he should not be ashamed to change and amend his laws." His understanding of "the people" should inform the just ruler's: "The union of all men together, those of superior, middle, and inferior rank, was called the people; for all are necessary, and none can be excepted for the reason that they are obliged to assist one another in order to live properly and be protected and supported."


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

WalkingInMemphis said:


> Radical? How? Examples?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Soros is just as big a part of the DNC machine tho. :Jericho2

Radical like saying we need to resist who the president is. Such an idea spits in the face of Democracy. I didn't protest once against Obama. He won. I waited it out fair and square. The DNC have openly called for these protests against the admin, and that to me is no better than the worst of the violent protesters. As I said, Soros practically FUELS the DNC. He's almost COMICALLY influential to the left. This unrest is exactly what he and the DNC want.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Headliner said:


> Nah he knew what he was doing. He's done that several times. And to be technical, I told him to shut the fuck up.
> 
> You talked about my attitude and I responded to it. That's not spinning anything.
> 
> What's there for me to listen to? Those who condemn this are fine in my book. But you got clown ass people in here trying to move goal posts and be on some bullshit and I'm not having it.


The point is that none of us here unless I missed something are saying these protesters are correct. You made this thread trying to say "See this is what people here believe" And no, you didn't say all of us, but you still insinuated we somehow created this or fostered this when you failed to mention the crazies on your side that were there antagonizing them as well. The reality is that this is a clash between the worst of our respective sides, and this is happening because people--much like in this thread--refuse to accept that both sides of the political coin have merit. I'm not even that fanatical about Trump, dude. You want to know my feelings on it, go read what I told Oxi. Best thing to do is realize its all pointless to debate and we're ALL brainless sacks of shit. :shrug


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Beatles123 said:


> The point is that none of us here unless I missed something are saying these protesters are correct. You made this thread trying to say "See this is what people here believe" And no, you didn't say all of us, but you still insinuated we somehow created this or fostered this when you failed to mention the crazies on your side that were there antagonizing them as well. The reality is that this is a clash between the worst of our respective sides, and this is happening because people--much like in this thread--refuse to accept that both sides of the political coin have merit. I'm not even that fanatical about Trump, dude. You want to know my feelings on it, go read what I told Oxi. Best thing to do is realize its all pointless to debate and we're ALL brainless sacks of shit. :shrug


No, I was saying this is what doesn't get posted. This is what gets hidden. You clearly missed the ball pal.


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## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

Headliner said:


> It was shit. He needed to condemn white nationalism specifically by name. Because if it was Muslims, he would have used "radical Islamic terror" in a heartbeat or if it was Hispanics he would have used some kind of xenophobic rhetoric. But because white nationalist are a core part of his base, he's being politically careful


Funny how you never took issue when your bredrin Obama routinely refused to condemn "radical islamic terror" attacks on a regular basis but you are up in arms within a hour of Donald not using the wording that you would have liked him to. He said this shit needs to stop from ALL sides. Sounds fair enough to me



Headliner said:


> I do this from time to time. I wreck shit. I make you guys feel uncomfortable. Haven't you figured that out yet?


:duck

Honestly Liner you do not wreck shit, You make me feel embarrassed for you not uncomfortable. You are the biggest race baiter on this site and you get away with it purely because of you position as a high ranked member off staff on the forum. Your hatred and pure distain towards white folk is very evident and on show on a daily basis. I am sure that 99.9% of the "right wingers" and Trump supporters on this site have no time for the white supremacists, KKK etc, I have not seen a single person even attempting to justify the behaviour of them racist pricks who attended that rally in Virginia today but you try your best to label anybody who leans even slightly right as a racist Hitler supporting nazi while being completely blinded when it comes to the left. Groups like Antifa and BLM behave like animals who are intent on causing trouble on a regular basis but I have never once seen you come out and condemn them when the shoe is on the other foot. Any person who gets a kicking or killed while attending any sort of rally/march has my sympathy. Any decent person who is either Left/Right/white/black/gay/trans should automatically condemn behaviour that is not appropriate but it has to work both ways

People like you do not want equality, you have no interest in it, You are full of resentment for stuff that happened generations before you and are more than happy to play the victim


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## Steve Black Man (Nov 28, 2015)

Headliner said:


> Did you read the entire thread? Every post?


Nope, so feel free disregard my comments on account of me not sitting here and reading through 20 pages of people most likely either using this tragedy and tragedies like it as a platform to further their own agenda or, on the flip side, defend it.

However, the sensationalist nature of the reactions to this tragedy hit me as a mirror image of what happens whenever a radical Muslim extremist group organizes an attack. A picture is painted by someone of the other end of the spectrum that everybody that identifies with that particular ideology, even if it's in name only, is evil.

Is every Muslim evil because certain members of that particular group are? Of course not.

Is every anti-Trump person wrong because of that group of people that tortured that mentally handicapped Trump supporter a while back? Nope.

Is every conservative a "right wing fanatic" because of the actions of this clearly psychotic individual? Of course not. But that's the narrative that's being created.

The thing is that both sides are guilty of this, yet both sides will deflect it whenever they're accused, either by arguing semantics, attempting to undermine the accuser rather than addressing the accusation, or citing the narratives that the other side attempts to create as an excuse.

It's all wrong, especially when these narratives are being built on graves, and it's one of the reasons that people are seemingly incapable of sitting down and discussing these issues in a civilized manner.

Edit: Earlier today the Charlottetown tragedy was the number one trend on Twitter. But I thought this type of stuff "hidden"? :lol


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Rowdy Yates said:


> Funny how you never took issue when your bredrin Obama routinely refused to condemn "radical islamic terror" attacks on a regular basis but you are up in arms within a hour of Donald not using the wording that you would have liked him to. He said this shit needs to stop from ALL sides. Sounds fair enough to me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wasn't up in arms about Obama not saying Radical Islamic Terror because it didn't need to be said. Not only does it create conflicts when it comes to middle eastern diplomacy, but because minorities are often demonized entirely due to the actions of a few in their race. Combing the religion and terror into one phrase creates xenophobic attitudes and fear mongering toward Muslims that can lead to verbal abuse and hate crimes. The words from a leader matters and it trickle down to the masses who are influenced by the leader's words.

In Trump's case if he's going to talk about radical Islamic terror, then he needs to be fair and condemn white nationalism specifically. What's fair is fair. It won't have any effect on "white people" compared to how "radical Islamic terror" has had an effect on Muslims who just want peace but get abused just for being a Muslim. 

I don't have one racist bone in my body. It's funny, I just warned some black dude just last month for being racist toward white people. If you mad you're welcome to leave the site and never come back. I haven't even said anything remotely offensive and you in your feelings. Don't come at me with that sensitive shit.


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## nyelator (Oct 3, 2016)

Beatles123 said:


> That's exactly how you presented this thread though! You act as if we're ignoring this shit. We aren't!
> 
> Edit: Why was Downrice banned?


I would assume because he disagreed with @Headliner


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

nyelator said:


> I would assume because he disagreed with @Headliner


Or maybe because he's been acting like a piece of shit in rants for a while now and I got tired of him shitting on the forum. Please don't speak on what you don't know.


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## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

Headliner said:


> I wasn't up in arms about Obama not saying Radical Islamic Terror because it didn't need to be said. Not only does it create conflicts when it comes to middle eastern diplomacy, but because minorities are often demonized entirely due to the actions of a few in their race. Combing the religion and terror into one phrase creates xenophobic attitudes and fear mongering toward Muslims that can lead to verbal abuse and hate crimes. The words from a leader matters and it trickle down to the masses who are influenced by the leader's words.
> 
> In Trump's case if he's going to talk about radical Islamic terror, then he needs to be fair and condemn white nationalism specifically. What's fair is fair. It won't have any effect on "white people" compared to how "radical Islamic terror" has had an effect on Muslims who just want peace but get abused just for being a Muslim.
> 
> I don't have one racist bone in my body. It's funny, I just warned some black dude just last month for being racist toward white people. If you mad you're welcome to leave the site and never come back. I haven't even said anything remotely offensive and you in your feelings. Don't come at me with that sensitive shit.


Why would I leave the site and never come back?. Why would I be mad. Just saying it as I see it, You have a big time agenda against the right and anybody who remotely leans that way

Did the White supremacists who attended today start fighting with each other? All the footage I have seen has shown both sides fighting, using weapons etc. If the Antifa/BLM supporters had stayed away and let them retarded idiots have their poxy and pathetic little march then no fucker would have the slightest idea it had even happened, All the stuff that has happened today has played into the hands of the racist pricks. Bare in mind it is estimated around 500 white guys bothered to turn up today out of a population of around 320 million, it is not even 0.1% of the U.S population. Trump would have seen the same footage as the rest of us. Two sides fighting each other, why should he come out and specifically mention the side that was the obvious minority. He said this shit has to stop from all concerned and he is correct yet you immediately see it as a opportunity to throw more shit at him that in reality is simply not even there. Its pathetic and agenda driven


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Rowdy Yates said:


> Why would I leave the site and never come back?. Why would I be mad. Just saying it as I see it, You have a big time agenda against the right and anybody who remotely leans that way
> 
> Did the White supremacists who attended today start fighting with each other? All the footage I have seen has shown both sides fighting, using weapons etc. If the Antifa/BLM supporters had stayed away and let them retarded idiots have their poxy and pathetic little march then no fucker would have the slightest idea it had even happened, All the stuff that has happened today has played into the hands of the racist pricks. Bare in mind it is estimated around 500 white guys bothered to turn up today out of a population of around 320 million, it is not even 0.1% of the U.S population. Trump would have seen the same footage as the rest of us. Two sides fighting each other, why should he come out and specifically mention the side that was the obvious minority. He said this shit has to stop from all concerned and he is correct yet you immediately see it as a opportunity to throw more shit at him that in reality is simply not even there. Its pathetic and agenda driven


:lol What the fuck this any of this even mean. I'm pretty sure in this thread pages back I specifically said THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING WHITE OR NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING CONSERVATIVE. 

Speaking up on this shit got ya'll so triggered. In ya'll feelings with candles lit. Ya'll just type a bunch of nonsense and deflection points hoping it sticks. 

It shows just how uncomfortable this is for some of you.


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## IDidPaige (Mar 18, 2017)

Leftist trash have been instigating and escalating violence against right wingers for two years now. Right wingers fighting back was long overdue. Quite frankly, I hope we continue putting them in the morgue, because the less leftist trash breathing on this planet, the better it becomes.


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## nyelator (Oct 3, 2016)

Beatles123 said:


> That's exactly how you presented this thread though! You act as if we're ignoring this shit. We aren't!
> 
> Edit: Why was Downrice banned?





Headliner said:


> Or maybe because he's been acting like a piece of shit in rants for a while now and I got tired of him shitting on the forum. Please don't speak on what you don't know.


Rants is a war zone that is the point.


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## nyelator (Oct 3, 2016)

IDidPaige said:


> Leftist trash have been instigating and escalating violence against right wingers for two years now. Right wingers fighting back was long overdue. Quite frankly, I hope we continue putting them in the morgue, because the less leftist trash breathing on this planet, the better it becomes.


A bit too far.............


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## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

IDidPaige said:


> Leftist trash have been instigating and escalating violence against right wingers for two years now. Right wingers fighting back was long overdue. Quite frankly, I hope we continue putting them in the morgue, because the less leftist trash breathing on this planet, the better it becomes.


:deanfpalm


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## blackholeson (Oct 3, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> I can assuew you you are not the minority on this forum. You think you are, but in reality more people will agree with you than I.


*I read through 10 pages and there was so much bullshit that came out of the mouth of people like you and I just had to jump in. Pardon me, but take your Paul McCartney avatar down because none of the Beatles would agree with you either.

You have to understand that I passed up so much bullshit in this thread coming from the far right that I had to stop at your quote that I have right above. I applaud you for admitting why you and anyone who pretty much agrees with you on this particular matter in this thread are wrong. 

There is a reason why you just admitted why most people would agree with Headliner. It's because most of those people are clearly either more informed than you and plenty of others and believe me this is a nicer way of saying that they're smarter than you. 

Smarter doesn't mean more books read, or test passed either. It's simple actually. All I am trying to say is that yes, most people are against what you think because what you think is "wrong". You only admitted this, but in a way as to challenge the concept of right, or wrong by using the word "agree". You claim more people will agree with Headliner as opposed to agreeing with you.

I'm not sure how you came up with assumption, but I feel as though you didn't just mean that within this forum. Deep down inside I think many of you realize how ignorant a certain just cause could actually be. In this case, Right Nationalists, Nazis, White Supremacists, etc. The idea that you must take America back again. From who? America never belonged to you in the first place.

America belongs to the "People" and we come in all sorts of shapes, sizes, colors, religions, sex, etc. Instead of telling others to go back here, or there. Why don't you go back to where you ancestors came from? Go back to Europe and tell me how much you like it there since so many of you think that Islam is destroying Christianity in Europe.

Many of you hardly sound like true "Americans". Since when was spreading hate speech ever okay? Why should members of the public be subjected to hate and racial intimidation? People like tend to think that it's their "right" to be able to promote hate speech. Since when? Any magistrate can deny a permit for any reason, especially if it could endanger the public.

Our rights have limits and we all should know that by now. You can sit here and preach the Constitution all you'd like, but I have it already. Everything has limits and our free speech is no exception. People should be allowed to assemble and protest, but not when their words are literal hate speech. The KKK have no right to assemble and promote anywhere in the United States, but we let them. Conservatives talk about how the left pushes tolerance on the them, but what the fuck do you call this?

I am supposed to be tolerant of people who literally want to see those who don't look like them dead, out of their country, hanging from a tree, etc? Again, this is why most people don't agree with you because your view of things as well as many others, is just flat out wrong and indecent. The left is asking for the right to care about black teens being jailed more for the same crimes as whites and killed by Cops. The Right is asking that the Left allow the KKK to march in their streets. One side says okay, the left and the other side says that's fake news, the right. See the difference?

People don't agree with you because you're wrong for the most part. The way you think is wrong. Plain and simple it's the truth. You admitting it only makes me smile, but it's a smile in disgust because I still can't understand what is wrong with this Right Wing Party. Many of you point out that more white men are shot and killed by Cops than black males, but fail to point out something extremely relevant.

Why is the Cop shooting at more white males? Because that white male is actually posing a as a threat, meaning a gun was clearly drawn. You fail to point out that most of those white males are not unarmed. Those like you also fail to point out why they're being shot at in the first place. What political views do most of those white males follow? Want to make a bet on the fact that most of those white males are "conservatives". Far left males aren't major gun owners and in comparison to their white right political counterparts they don't commit deadly crimes vs the Police as often.

If you want to compare then lets do it. White males vs white males. Right vs Left. Since, you know, minority conservatives aren't going to join White Nationalists Conservatives. I am sure they'll just stay home for this one. Whereas on the Left's side you have a group of various folks of all looks coming together, as Americans are supposed to do when there is some ignorant outside threat which dares to challenge the right to live in a peaceful society. The KKK don't give off that vibe, in case you were wondering.

A clear line was drawn in the sand today. You folks are off your fucking rocker and I don't think you understand what country you are in. This is a nation built on immigration and if you don't like it, get the fuck out. You all didn't like Europe and left because in reality they didn't want your ancestors around. Europe progressed away from the bullshit that those Pilgrims/Quakers brought to the United States. 

They didn't like your religious/political views in Europe 400 years ago and look at what we have now, the same thing. You Conservatives types who want to impose your backwards views and if they weren't you wouldn't admit to people not agreeing with you as often they would with someone like Headliner. Build your Mayflower and the get the fuck out, I heard Antarctica is nice these days, or perhaps New Zealand. I am not talking about all Conservatives, I am talking the ones waving Nazi flags, Confederate flags and whatever other flag that doesn't look like this... How dare you wave a flag of a loser on my American soil? You Confederate sympathizer.*


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

There is only one side Mr Trump and that is the side of justice. Clearly he didn't want to upset his most loyal supporters.


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## blackholeson (Oct 3, 2014)

Rowdy Yates said:


> Funny how you never took issue when your bredrin Obama routinely refused to condemn "radical islamic terror" attacks on a regular basis but you are up in arms within a hour of Donald not using the wording that you would have liked him to. He said this shit needs to stop from ALL sides. Sounds fair enough to me


*It only sounds fair to you because it's simple for you. You don't have a fucking clue, like none. I am an Atheist and I wouldn't dare label a religion as a radical terrorist group. Do your soul a favor and watch CNN's series the 90's. They used to call it Mid Eastern Terrorism and not Islamic Radicalism. Trump refuses to condemn the actions of the David Duke side. By the way Duke tweeted Trump and basically called him out.*


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

This is an awful thread btw, the fact I'm constantly misrepresented by both sides as the other side proves it imo. :mj4


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Miss Sally said:


> OKC bombers were called terrorists and were the hallmark of such for a long time.
> 
> The Unibomber was also called a terrorist.
> 
> The Boston Bombers were called terrorists, while from some Eastern European hellhole they looked white to me.


*My post was blatant sarcasm in reference to the right wingers here who act like white terrorism doesn't exist, and all Muslims should be banned for what they MIGHT do.*


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Legit BOSS said:


> *My post was blatant sarcasm in reference to the right wingers here who act like white terrorism doesn't exist, and all Muslims should be banned for what they MIGHT do.*


Oh okay, my bad! I get it now, I thought it was an actual talking point :laugh:


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

People getting at each other's throats over differing viewpoints is exactly what we _shouldn't _be doing.

You know who you are...


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## Tater (Jan 3, 2012)

blackholeson said:


> People should be allowed to assemble and protest, but not when their words are literal hate speech. The KKK have no right to assemble and promote anywhere in the United States


Freedom of speech for me but not for thee is not freedom of speech. Protecting freedom of speech means protecting the rights of those you disagree with. The KKK has every right assemble and spout their racist garbage and I have the right to call them a bunch of fucking retards, because that's how freedom of speech works. If you don't believe in the right of people to say things you disagree with because you label it hate speech, then you do not believe in the fundamental concept of freedom of speech at all.

Even the ACLU has protected the free speech rights of the KKK: https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-em-defends-kkks-right-free-speech

Just because I personally think the KKK are knuckle dragging troglodytes does not mean I believe their right to free speech should be taken away. As far as that goes, I _prefer_ that they spout their racist garbage publicly. It's easier to identify the racist dumbfucks that way.


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

I love the way America segregate yourself into so many little groups and then shit all over anyone who isn't in your group. Its adorable.

I'm talking about the whole right vs. left thing...and the billion other little boxes you put yourselves into.


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## LucasXXII (Apr 21, 2014)

This has been such a tedious debate, especially in recent years. Not sure if it's going to be popular, but I just want to offer a little personal perspective here. 

Personally I don't care about what anyone claims to be their stance on this matter. As ridiculous as claiming to be 100% behind a particular kind of ideology is, if people do this only for the benefit of themselves, and deep down they actually understand the abundance of the "loopholes" of the side (or any sides, for that matter) they've taken, then I don't have any problem with them, even if there is a conflict of interest between these people and myself. On the other hand, there are those who go around preaching their ideologies and refuting their opposite sides, all the while truly believing in what they claim to believe. These people are puppets by definition. They plunge in and accept the ongoing trends of thought in its entirety, they are easily manipulated, and they have completely lost their own identity. Unlike with the former kind, I have no respect for these people, and consider going into a serious argument with them as a waste of time. 

In this case, those who do the dirtywork in committing violence in the name of the ideology they believe in belong to the latter kind without question. Otherwise, they would have understood that no ideology is worth it for them to risk destroying their own well-beings for. Then there are also those who, when violence occurs, can't wait to jump in and use the incident to further their own political agendas. If these people were master manipulators, I'd at least have a certain degree of respect for them as they are intelligent people. But as is often the case, these people truly believe that they are "justly" calling out the "evil" opposite side, and when their opponents inevitably give weaker comebacks (for the aforementioned incident is a very recent occurance, people have short memories, and arguments that are more objective and down the middle often have less impacts than those more subjective and aggressive), they indulge in the illusion of victory and revel in ecstasy. And if they were simply peaceable people that only try to express their opinions every now and then, they would have been fine in my book, but they're not. They just have to make their presence felt. It is my belief that these people don't deserve respect, because they are the manipulated, AND they behave to the detriment of others.

So essentially, you can say I'm someone who is first and foremost against anti-intellectualism. By definition, I'm neither "left" nor "right". Of course I don't see myself as a know-it-all, all I can do is to keep my head clear and always try to be more intelligent and knowledgable about things.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> I love the way America segregate yourself into so many little groups and then shit all over anyone who isn't in your group. Its adorable.
> 
> I'm talking about the whole right vs. left thing...and the billion other little boxes you put yourselves into.


Sausage party said it best:

"And every aisle thinks of something different,
And to this we all agree,
Everyone else is f**king stupid,
Except for those who think like me,
(And me, and me, and me!)"

We're all doomed.


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Beatles123 said:


> Sausage party said it best:
> 
> "And every aisle thinks of something different,
> And to this we all agree,
> ...


Holy shit your angsty teenage faux nihilism was brought on by Sausage Party?! :lmao wtf


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Oxidamus said:


> Holy shit your angsty teenage faux nihilism was brought on by Sausage Party?! :lmao wtf


Who said that? Its just a true quote describing how people act. You just displayed it. :trump3


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## DJ Punk (Sep 1, 2016)

Why make this a liberal vs conservative thing? This isn't a right or left problem. It's a human problem. It's disgusting and makes me ashamed that I'm apart of this race. The human race.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Dr. Middy said:


> People getting at each other's throats over differing viewpoints is exactly what we _shouldn't _be doing.
> 
> You know who you are...


*Yes we should if that viewpoint enables racist fucktards who mow over pedestrians with motor vehicles. The dumbass who runs this country was elected by the vast majority of these people, he knows it, and that's why he's tip toeing around his words as to not offend them, which is a courtesy that he doesn't offer to any other group. Fuck him and fuck them. I'm not holding anything back when it comes to that.*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896492127911149568


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## machomanjohncena (Feb 8, 2017)

I decided a while ago that I'm done with being civil with Trump supporters. I have 0 tolerance for fascists and the people who enable them


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Tater said:


> Freedom of speech for me but not for thee is not freedom of speech. Protecting freedom of speech means protecting the rights of those you disagree with. The KKK has every right assemble and spout their racist garbage and I have the right to call them a bunch of fucking retards, because that's how freedom of speech works. If you don't believe in the right of people to say things you disagree with because you label it hate speech, then you do not believe in the fundamental concept of freedom of speech at all.
> 
> Even the ACLU has protected the free speech rights of the KKK: https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-em-defends-kkks-right-free-speech
> 
> Just because I personally think the KKK are knuckle dragging troglodytes does not mean I believe their right to free speech should be taken away. As far as that goes, I _prefer_ that they spout their racist garbage publicly. It's easier to identify the racist dumbfucks that way.


This is true. Evidently, the tiki-torch-bearers had a legal permit from the city government of Charlottesville for their protest. Obviously any violence perpetrated by anyone at the "rally" or whatever one wishes to call it obviates free speech protections, but at the very least these people, however grievously flawed their ideological outlook, at least initially went through the proper means of having an event. 

Communists, neo-nazis, brown power, ***********, whatever, let them all have the opportunity to make themselves look foolish. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896492579180752899
Naturally it all goes back to Putin. :sodone :lol


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

machomanjohncena said:


> I decided a while ago that I'm done with being civil with Trump supporters. I have 0 tolerance for fascists and the people who enable them


So productive!

The US isn't a fascist state. I'm not sure why people keep trying to make this a thing. :laugh:


----------



## Steve Black Man (Nov 28, 2015)

Legit BOSS said:


> *Yes we should if that viewpoint enables racist fucktards who mow over pedestrians with motor vehicles. The dumbass who runs this country was elected by the vast majority of these people, he knows it, and that's why he's tip toeing around his words as to not offend them, which is a courtesy that he doesn't offer to any other group. Fuck him and fuck them. I'm not holding anything back when it comes to that.*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896492127911149568


So everyone who voted Trump is a "racist fucktard" that, on the drop of a dime, would be totally willing to "mow over pedestrians with motor vehicles"?

I'm no Trump fan, but that seems like a hilariously exaggerated generalization. 

Most people are generally decent, regardless of whether they identify as liberal or conservative. What bothers me is how predators from the other side, and this does happen with both sides, are so willing and able to take the actions of one or a small minority of extremist individuals and use it to paint a portrait of a much larger group of people who are mostly decent.

It's the same thing that's been happening with Muslims for years.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> Sausage party said it best:
> 
> "And every aisle thinks of something different,
> And to this we all agree,
> ...


So very, very true. It's comedic and scary seeing the cult like obsession and devotion towards politics and political parties in America.


----------



## Tater (Jan 3, 2012)

DesolationRow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896492579180752899
> Naturally it all goes back to Putin. :sodone :lol




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896447331519823872
*Alex Jones: Charlottesville Was A False Flag Run By SPLC Operatives Who Hired Actors To Pose As Nazis*

And I'm posting this tweet too just for the lulz. :lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/895413645999357952


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

:lmao Alex Jones with the fidget spinner... :lmao

(I'll admit it: I was ignorant of this, too. :sad: :lol)


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

I'm trying to find some kind of coverage on these events but I'm finding things that are either blatantly pro or anti 'unite the right'. I can't find anything that seems to actually give a balanced representation of the facts. First I see a video by Richard Spencer standing his ground with his other white nationalist fellas and the riot police assemble in front of them and push them back, for what seems to be - and what he would say is - no reason, but there'd have to be some reason for like 50+ riot police to pop up so that seems bullshit. On the same, there are people claiming BLM and Antifa invaded in an attempt to do something like, I don't know, probably do the same thing the opposition does to them. Pick arguments, yell, get people mad because millennials as a whole are shit-stirring babies. But I didn't see any video that actually showed what seemed to be an initial attack.

It's no different to @Headliner trolling, posting a couple of super short videos from known all-around racist political opportunist Tariq Nasheed and saying "the context doesn't matter" when it obviously does. Like how does context not matter? :lmao The context always matters, even at BLM protests. Not many people randomly decide to attack someone, and people certainly don't go to these things specifically to get into brawls (though some are probably opportunistic enough to jump in when they start), so you have to know who threw the first punch. Unless of course you're afraid of providing that context because it might prove you wrong or something. Maybe the reason why you believe more people would ask for context for the videos is because these "Neo Nazis" - which btw I'm sure there are, just not all of them - are pro-free speech because free speech is a tool to not get violent, to oppose free speech implies you either would prefer to have no dialogue, or replace dialogue with fists.

Anyway with a full-scale brawl like this I think it's easy to say everyone involved is at fault, but you still have to place most fault on the ones who decided to resort to violence first. The thing is with these protests is this is probably the first actually large right-wing protest in the US. At least I've heard of. Until now there have been dozens of left-wing protests with major coverage and almost every one that got mainstream coverage turned into violence. And in almost every one of these, you see clear footage of people being assaulted when there's zero violence going around. See: dumb millennials against free speech at University of Toronto; that (apparent) professor with the bike-chain weapon; the Antifa-pledged teacher attacking a guy as he talks to police, etc. So if you're not intentionally being dishonest it's pretty clear why the left-wing protests are constantly given more shit. Not only because they have a seemingly obvious trend to devolve into violence through actions committed or advocated by left-wing radicals, but also because what they're protesting is often against American values (free speech) or a hypocritical smokescreen (Police vs. Blacks). Allow me to reiterate that they happen _a lot more_ and get _way more publicity_ as well.

Another aspect of this, up for debate at the very least, is the imbalance of power between the two. Left-wing protests spew hatred, vitriol, utter nonsense just like this one did. Except they almost always win somehow. Speakers get ousted; told they're de-platformed; people get fired; etc. Most of these are on-the-spot protests that - without argument - disturb the peace. Especially ones at universities. Again if I'm not mistaken, these 'unite the right' types actually got approved. Then suddenly were no longer allowed to protest at the space they were at - which is probably akin to the left being told they can't protest against a conservative speaker a la Milo, Coulter, Shapiro, at the university they're being invited to - which again, doesn't happen. Those speakers get de-platformed and those protesters cheer. Another victory for the left.

Does anyone actually deny the existence of this over-the-top right-wing movement being a literal _counter_ culture? Not in the "_I'm PAUL Joseph WATSON and THIS is the COUNTER culture OF America's MAIN STREAM METEOR_" trying-too-hard-to-be-cool way, but it's literally a (sub)culture that only exists, at least at the level it is, because of the undeniably excessive forcing of identity politics from the left, which have been going almost unquestioned for years? Maybe had the left-wingers who thought it was a good idea to group people based on skin colour, gender, sexual preference, etc, actually treated people on merit instead, there would be no uproar like this.

I mean one could argue that identity politics was given rise because of decades of injustices against people based on their skin colour (primarily), gender, sexual preference etc. But up until this massive divide of the west (it exists in a sizable level in the UK and it's going to come to Australia soon) the last half-decade has probably been the most progressive and inclusive culture the west has ever seen. So these people pick a time where they are respected and treated the most 'humanely' to complain about how they've been disrespected and mistreated? That I do not get.



Legit BOSS said:


> *Yes we should if that viewpoint enables racist fucktards who mow over pedestrians with motor vehicles. The dumbass who runs this country was elected by the vast majority of these people, he knows it, and that's why he's tip toeing around his words as to not offend them, which is a courtesy that he doesn't offer to any other group. Fuck him and fuck them. I'm not holding anything back when it comes to that.*


So let's suppose Trump does tip-toe around these people because they support him.
Trump tip-toeing around the 0.001% of American's that are "Neo Nazi's" = 
Hillary smiling as she appeals to race and her gender to get votes = :agree:

I hate the bullshit positing of not supporting Trump equals being okay with Hillary doing other bad things. But I doubt people such as yourself would accept it if the criticisms were reversed.

Start talking shit about the demographics that Hillary was voted for - primarily minorities, females, and female minorities - and that'd be something very, very wrong. Wouldn't it?



Eva MaRIHyse said:


> So very, very true. It's comedic and scary seeing the cult like obsession and devotion towards politics and political parties in America.


Should happen here but it doesn't because all of Australia was indoctrinated by this shite without any uprising. :no:


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

This has been an utterly fantastic read, I appreciate the hard work headliner.


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## Tater (Jan 3, 2012)

Miss Sally said:


> The US isn't a fascist state. I'm not sure why people keep trying to make this a thing. :laugh:


I would beg to differ. 



> “Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.” ― Benito Mussolini
> 
> “The definition of fascism is The marriage of corporation and state.” ― Benito Mussolini


If we're going by Mussolini's definition of fascism, then the USA is most definitely a fascist state. It may not be full blown fascist at this point but at best it's fascist-lite. The unchecked influence of money in politics is what led us down this road. Oftentimes, it's the corporate lobbyists themselves who are writing the bills that their puppet politicians sign. We may still have the appearance of democracy but for all intents and purposes, it's corporate America who makes all the big decisions. Establishment Democrats and Republicans are two cheeks of the same corporate ass and it's we the people who get shat on. All the left vs right and liberal vs conservative bullshit being stirred up by the establishment and their corporate MSM propaganda arm is by design to keep us commoners divided up and never united against them.


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## Oda Nobunaga (Jun 12, 2006)

Tater said:


> Establishment Democrats and Republicans are two cheeks of the same corporate ass and it's we the people who get shat on.


This is fucking brilliant. It may not be eloquent, but damn is it true.

I mainly reside in "political No Man's Land" as I call it, so I'm afraid I can't relate to the "left wing" or "right wing" stuff. Neither side (especially on the Authoritarian side of spectrum) gets my full support.


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## .MCH (Dec 1, 2008)

Steve Black Man said:


> So everyone who voted Trump is a "racist fucktard" that, on the drop of a dime, would be totally willing to "mow over pedestrians with motor vehicles"?
> 
> I'm no Trump fan, but that seems like a hilariously exaggerated generalization.
> 
> ...


No, but if you voted for him, you were obviously fine with his racism in handing him power. So that does make you complicit. 

And stop with the both sides bs. One side is out protesting over a false belief that they're being oppressed while the other side is fighting for those who actually are. Stop trying to make it comparable so you can deflect and shrug off any responsibility.


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## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

Am I the only one welcoming those North Korean nukes right about now? The only way to achieve a "more perfect union" is to burn it all down and start again, I bet we won't be fighting about race and ideology when we have to band together to fight Deathclaws in the Wasteland.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Tater said:


> I would beg to differ.
> 
> 
> 
> If we're going by Mussolini's definition of fascism, then the USA is most definitely a fascist state. It may not be full blown fascist at this point but at best it's fascist-lite. The unchecked influence of money in politics is what led us down this road. Oftentimes, it's the corporate lobbyists themselves who are writing the bills that their puppet politicians sign. We may still have the appearance of democracy but for all intents and purposes, it's corporate America who makes all the big decisions. Establishment Democrats and Republicans are two cheeks of the same corporate ass and it's we the people who get shat on. All the left vs right and liberal vs conservative bullshit being stirred up by the establishment and their corporate MSM propaganda arm is by design to keep us commoners divided up and never united against them.


I can agree with this but by that standards than it's been this way for a few decades. It just didn't become this way over night like some might suggest.

I do recall us talking about two sides of the same shit stained coin. It appears to look more true each day that passes.


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## The5star_Kid (Mar 4, 2013)

Who here is going to run over protesters?


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## BORT (Oct 5, 2009)

Oda Nobunaga said:


> This is fucking brilliant. It may not be eloquent, but damn is it true.
> 
> I mainly reside in "political No Man's Land" as I call it, so I'm afraid I can't relate to the "left wing" or "right wing" stuff. Neither side (especially on the Authoritarian side of spectrum) gets my full support.


Same. The only "side" I'm on is the side of truth. At least I try to be. All this party nonsense just boxes our minds and keeps us from truly progressing.


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

BORT said:


> Same. The only "side" I'm on is the side of truth. At least I try to be. All this party nonsense just boxes our minds and keeps us from truly progressing.


It's Political Tribalism and much like Racial Tribalism different sides think they're superior and eventually becomes irrationally hostile to everyone who doesn't agree with them. Heck even to people that agree with them if it's not full submission to the ideology. 

These people have just replaced the thoughts of Racial superiority with ideological superiority.


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## Tater (Jan 3, 2012)

Miss Sally said:


> I can agree with this but by that standards than it's been this way for a few decades. It just didn't become this way over night like some might suggest.
> 
> I do recall us talking about two sides of the same shit stained coin. It appears to look more true each day that passes.


A lot of people would have you believe that everything was sunshine and rainbows and puppies before Trump came along, when in reality, we've been heading down the road to fascism for the past 40 years. It didn't start with Trump and most likely won't end with him either. He's just the latest to carry the torch that was passed along to him by his predecessors.


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Tater said:


> A lot of people would have you believe that everything was sunshine and rainbows and puppies before Trump came along, when in reality, we've been heading down the road to fascism for the past 40 years. It didn't start with Trump and most likely won't end with him either. He's just the latest to carry the torch that was passed along to him by his predecessors.


Well this think is partly because they don't like Trump and want to believe the worst. It's no different than when Obama became President or Bush the second time. It also doesn't help that social media is accessible to nearly everyone whereas even 6-8 years ago it wasn't as big as it is now. Could you imagine twitter during the Cold War? LOL

I think it was you who mentioned the frog in the pot effect before and this is basically it. Stuff like this never just happens, it's always a slow creeping process that takes a long time.

I'm probably butchering this but I believe Shakespeare wrote something along the lines of "With many strokes did the little axe hew the great tree". Basically saying that with time even the strongest of things can be brought down.


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Good posts by *Oxi* and @Tater and @Miss Sally.

Rose Wilder Lane pointedly observed that FDR fought fascism abroad while fostering its rise at home. 


This is almost funny it's so pathetic, these idiots walking down the sidewalk chanting "GAS THE K!KES NOW!" I'm sitting here thinking, to whom are they speaking but themselves? Even if you were a committed white nationalist, this is just pitiful live action role-playing. 

Laura Loomer is super annoying but the video is the video. Will probably hear before long that the JEWS changed the audio! :aryalol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896471045921619969


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## amhlilhaus (Dec 19, 2013)

Headliner said:


> I remember speaking with some conservative delusional on here who tried to claim that right wing protest groups aren't violent.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896238835645915136
> ...



1. They are not conservative right wing. Uninformed liberal idiots think that white racists are conservative because of leftist liberal propaganda, but smaller, more efficient government says nothing about 'just white people' capitalism and free markets have nothing to do with color either. Those two principles of conservatism. 

True conservatism rejects the religious rights stance against homosexuality as well. We arent religous fruitcakes who think the earth is 6000 years old.

2. Even if we just throw up our hands and say it was us, leftist violent events far outnumber 'right wing' violence.

Fuck those people, they dont reflect my views or beliefs

Fuck those people who try to lump those jackasses into my political views.


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## TKOK (Apr 6, 2006)

Steve Black Man said:


> What kind of idiot plows their car through a crowd of people anyways? Did the dude have a history of mental illness or erratic behavior before this?


Using a car or other vehicle to plow into a group is straight from the terrorism handbook.


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Oxidamus said:


> I'm trying to find some kind of coverage on these events but I'm finding things that are either blatantly pro or anti 'unite the right'. I can't find anything that seems to actually give a balanced representation of the facts. First I see a video by Richard Spencer standing his ground with his other white nationalist fellas and the riot police assemble in front of them and push them back, for what seems to be - and what he would say is - no reason, but there'd have to be some reason for like 50+ riot police to pop up so that seems bullshit. On the same, there are people claiming BLM and Antifa invaded in an attempt to do something like, I don't know, probably do the same thing the opposition does to them. Pick arguments, yell, get people mad because millennials as a whole are shit-stirring babies. But I didn't see any video that actually showed what seemed to be an initial attack.
> 
> It's no different to @Headliner trolling, posting a couple of super short videos from known all-around racist political opportunist Tariq Nasheed and saying "the context doesn't matter" when it obviously does. Like how does context not matter? :lmao The context always matters, even at BLM protests. Not many people randomly decide to attack someone, and people certainly don't go to these things specifically to get into brawls (though some are probably opportunistic enough to jump in when they start), so you have to know who threw the first punch. Unless of course you're afraid of providing that context because it might prove you wrong or something. Maybe the reason why you believe more people would ask for context for the videos is because these "Neo Nazis" - which btw I'm sure there are, just not all of them - are pro-free speech because free speech is a tool to not get violent, to oppose free speech implies you either would prefer to have no dialogue, or replace dialogue with fists.
> 
> ...


I'n not trolling. Everything from the first page on has been explained to you yet you continue to ignore it for your foolish narrative.



amhlilhaus said:


> 1. They are not conservative right wing. Uninformed liberal idiots think that white racists are conservative because of leftist liberal propaganda, but smaller, more efficient government says nothing about 'just white people' capitalism and free markets have nothing to do with color either. Those two principles of conservatism.
> 
> True conservatism rejects the religious rights stance against homosexuality as well. We arent religous fruitcakes who think the earth is 6000 years old.
> 
> ...


What does any of this means? What the fuck does leftist/the left have to do with any of this? See this is what I'm talking about. The spin and deflection. Ain't nobody in here jumped on the white conservatives are racist tip. This is about a faction that exists in your party. Everything else is irrelevant talking points.


----------



## amhlilhaus (Dec 19, 2013)

IDidPaige said:


> Leftist trash have been instigating and escalating violence against right wingers for two years now. Right wingers fighting back was long overdue. Quite frankly, I hope we continue putting them in the morgue, because the less leftist trash breathing on this planet, the better it becomes.



You can claim white nationalists as right wingers. 

I dont. You shouldnt either unless you go by the medias definition of right wing.

Which means youre racist, sexist and homophobic.


----------



## amhlilhaus (Dec 19, 2013)

Headliner said:


> I'n not trolling. Everything from the first page on has been explained to you yet you continue to ignore it for your foolish narrative.
> 
> 
> What does any of this means? What the fuck does leftist/the left have to do with any of this? See this is what I'm talking about. The spin and deflection. Ain't nobody in here jumped on the white conservatives are racist tip. This is about a faction that exists in your party. Everything else is irrelevant talking points.


Its not deflection. White supremacists are labeled right wing extremists. Theyre not just because the oh so honest media says they are. The media and their democrat puppets routinely describes conservatives as racist, sexist homophobes.

I called out those idiots and the 'religious right' as well. 

Saying they exist in my party is jumping on the white conservatives are racists tip.

None of the white conservatives i know are racists. Ironically, the only white racists i know are democrats


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## Cowabunga (Oct 9, 2010)

A person died in those protests? Damn.

Ok, I'm sorry for not reading the whole thread and for maybe saying something someone else has said already, but I gotta say this: as a non-American, it seems to me that American society is quite divided and that the country itself hasn't fully gotten rid of segregation and racial divisions yet. I think people should care less about those things. So what if a black person likes things associated with "white people" and vice-versa? FWIW, to me, Bill Gates is as American as Michael Jordan is, despite the racial difference between both men they have WAY more in common than a guy like me has with either of them. So this whole racial division seems kinda pointless and contradictory to me in a country that constantly brags about being a "diverse nation made of immigrants". People need to move on and try to coexist. Racists need to let go off the past and far leftists need to stop making everything to be prejudiced. Neither side is helping matters and is only furthering division. That's the most hilarious case here. They can't tell how similar they are. Per example, did you know that white and black supremacist groups have cooperated in the past and given speeches at each other's rallies before? Because they realise they sorta defend the same ideology. 

So yeah, just my two cents. I'm just a European guy, though, so...


----------



## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

machomanjohncena said:


> I decided a while ago that I'm done with being civil with Trump supporters. I have 0 tolerance for fascists and the people who enable them


You don't have a damn clue about fascism or fascists


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

DesolationRow said:


> This is true. Evidently, the tiki-torch-bearers had a legal permit from the city government of Charlottesville for their protest. Obviously any violence perpetrated by anyone at the "rally" or whatever one wishes to call it obviates free speech protections, but at the very least these people, however grievously flawed their ideological outlook, at least initially went through the proper means of having an event.
> 
> Communists, neo-nazis, brown power, ***********, whatever, let them all have the opportunity to make themselves look foolish.
> 
> ...


WOW, now that's delusion, if I've ever seen it. Hey, 50s called, they want their Red Scare back.


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

amhlilhaus said:


> Its not deflection. White supremacists are labeled right wing extremists. Theyre not just because the oh so honest media says they are. The media and their democrat puppets routinely describes conservatives as racist, sexist homophobes.
> 
> I called out those idiots and the 'religious right' as well.
> 
> ...


:mj4:mj4 Racism has existed in the modern Republican Party dating back to Barry Goldwater but let's say Democrats are the real racists so that we can clear our party of any wrong doing even though polls suggest that Conservatives tend to have a more fucked up opinion of minorities than Liberals. So let me guess, House member Steve King isn't racist. He's just making America great again.:lebron8


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/840980755236999169

There's nothing wrong with confronting problems in your own race, your own political group or your own social group. It doesn't make you a bad person for being a member. It makes you a good person for recognizing it.


----------



## IDidPaige (Mar 18, 2017)

machomanjohncena said:


> I decided a while ago that I'm done with being civil with Trump supporters. I have 0 tolerance for fascists and the people who enable them


It seems Trump supporters are done being civil with fascist leftist trash, too, and I've got a feeling it's not going to end too well for the latter.


----------



## IDidPaige (Mar 18, 2017)

KingCosmos said:


> There is only one side Mr Trump and that is the side of justice. Clearly he didn't want to upset his most loyal supporters.


Ah, right. Those peaceful civil rights protestors, peacefully beating people with baseball bats, spraying them with bear mace, and tossing urine on them. Such classy, ethical people, fighting for what's right.

:x


----------



## Bearodactyl (Apr 2, 2012)

Headliner said:


> No, I was saying this is what doesn't get posted. This is what gets hidden. You clearly missed the ball pal.


As did 99% of this thread. After reading all 11 pages of this thread that's the one thing that sticks out most to me: you made such a non subtle point, yet almost everyone just shoots right past it and makes it about something completely different, then points the finger at you for it. Baffling.



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Am I the only one welcoming those North Korean nukes right about now? The only way to achieve a "more perfect union" is to burn it all down and start again, I bet we won't be fighting about race and ideology when we have to band together to fight Deathclaws in the Wasteland.


No harm in starting a bottle cap collection, just in case :bearo



amhlilhaus said:


> 1. They are not conservative right wing. Uninformed liberal idiots think that white racists are conservative because of leftist liberal propaganda, but smaller, more efficient government says nothing about 'just white people' capitalism and free markets have nothing to do with color either. Those two principles of conservatism.
> *
> True conservatism rejects the religious rights stance against homosexuality as well. We arent religous fruitcakes who think the earth is 6000 years old.*
> 
> ...


I agree on the fuck those people part. As for the highlighted, ignoring the "no true scotsman" aspect of things, those people are part of your side, and the people that end up in power tend to cater to their fruitcake perspectives. And that would present a problem to me personally when debating what side to put my vote behind.



Cowabunga said:


> A person died in those protests? Damn.
> 
> Ok, I'm sorry for not reading the whole thread and for maybe saying something someone else has said already, but I gotta say this: as a non-American, it seems to me that American society is quite divided and that the country itself hasn't fully gotten rid of segregation and racial divisions yet. I think people should care less about those things. So what if a black person likes things associated with "white people" and vice-versa? FWIW, to me, Bill Gates is as American as Michael Jordan is, despite the racial difference between both men they have WAY more in common than a guy like me has with either of them. So this whole racial division seems kinda pointless and contradictory to me in a country that constantly brags about being a "diverse nation made of immigrants". *People need to move on and try to coexist. Racists need to let go off the past and far leftists need to stop making everything to be prejudiced.* Neither side is helping matters and is only furthering division. That's the most hilarious case here. They can't tell how similar they are. Per example, did you know that white and black supremacist groups have cooperated in the past and given speeches at each other's rallies before? Because they realise they sorta defend the same ideology.
> 
> So yeah, just my two cents. I'm just a European guy, though, so...


One European guy to another, the bolded is easier said than done. There will still be people doing racist shit because that particular belief is truly deeply ingrained in some, meaning there will always be cases and situations where people will feel the deserved need to claim prejudice. And as erring is human, this means there will also always be people claiming prejudice where though it may be perceived as such, there really is none. In a perfect world though, yes, just letting go off the past, clean slate for everyone, no matter what race, gender, sexuality or creed would be nice.



Headliner said:


> *There's nothing wrong with confronting problems in your own race, your own political group or your own social group. It doesn't make you a bad person for being a member. It makes you a good person for recognizing it.*


/Thread. Though it won't be.


----------



## Rick_James (May 11, 2012)

99% of right wingers think it's horrible to assault people, let alone run people over with your car, just because you disagree politically. That being said over the last year or so we've seen a disturbing trend from the left where they think it's ok to assault people because of their political views, mainly because they claim to want to "stop nazi's" but nazi's is being used as a term for "people who disagree with me politically" and in the vast majority of cases, not actual nazi's lol. This really hurts their cause more than helps because in many instances it makes Trump supporters appear to be victims that are merely voicing their political views but end up being attacked, but we've seen the left all too often remain quiet when these types of things take place. Scratch the "appear to be" part though, when you're attacked at a rally, you are a victim. 

IMO all of the violence caused by the left has empowered groups like the nazi's and KKK because when people feel like victims, they often want to resort to violence. That and the left wing media constantly giving a spotlight to the KKK and nazi's, who for all intents and purposes are an extremely small group and outside of small instances like this, while being horrid, these groups do not have sway or political clout in the country. Again, I'm not saying that the guy running over people is ok in the slightest, rather when you assault innocent people at Trump rallies, some will see that and end up going to extreme places because of it. 

Long story short, going to the next "KKK rally" or wherever, with the intent to fight or beat up nazi's or the KKK members isn't the answer.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

I see a lot of whining about freedom of speech trying to protect these scum of the earth. Nazis should NOT be allowed to "peacefully" assemble. There is no peace for their ideologies and the end result is violence. It can not be allowed to breathe and the pussy people that keep parroting " b-b-but freedom of speech" are suspect to me.

"The United States Government from the Late 30s through 1945 Actively banned Any Nazi Gatherings, Speeches or Organizations from operating Freely. The Nazi of Today celebrate and worship the same ideology of the Nazi of the 30s and 40s."

So get the fuck out of here with that freedom of speech shit. A Nazi should not have to right to peacefully assemble simple because there is no peace with them.


----------



## Tater (Jan 3, 2012)

Ken Ham understands evolution better than some people in this thread understand what makes a person left or right. Hint: your feelings on racism ain't got a goddamned thing to do with it.


----------



## AVX (May 25, 2014)

IDidPaige said:


> It seems Trump supporters are done being civil with fascist leftist trash, too, and I've got a feeling it's not going to end too well for the latter.


This is pretty much it. No matter if you agree with the alt rights message or not they still have a right to assemble and protest. All the permits were applied for and granted legally. Antifa/BLM feel they are above the law, don't need permission, and have a moral right to assault those they don't agree with. They have labeled everyone that is not a leftist socialist as an enemy they have "zero tolerance" for, everyone is a "Nazi", any opinion that is not their own is "hate speech that must be silenced", any and all "White people are inherently racist", no minority is "capable of being racist". Well, if that's the case then prepare for a showdown because many Americans are not buying this garbage and will defend themselves and their right to free speech no matter who it offends. You do not have the right to not be offended.


----------



## Rick_James (May 11, 2012)

KingCosmos said:


> I see a lot of whining about freedom of speech trying to protect these scum of the earth. Nazis should NOT be allowed to "peacefully" assemble. There is no peace for their ideologies and the end result is violence. It can not be allowed to breathe and the pussy people that keep parroting " b-b-but freedom of speech" are suspect to me.
> 
> "The United States Government from the Late 30s through 1945 Actively banned Any Nazi Gatherings, Speeches or Organizations from operating Freely. The Nazi of Today celebrate and worship the same ideology of the Nazi of the 30s and 40s."
> 
> So get the fuck out of here with that freedom of speech shit. A Nazi should not have to right to peacefully assemble simple because there is no peace with them.


Freedom of speech is a right that belongs to all Americans. It's one thing if the neo nazi's start attacking people to do something about it, but merely walking in the streets and chanting is something they should be allowed to do. A lot of people throughout American history have given up their lives to protect the right to free speech, it is something we should not disregard, even in the face of people who use it to say things that can be truly horrible. You don't change that sort of ideology by attacking the people that hold that view, rather you change it by having a meaningful discussion with the person.


----------



## Steve Black Man (Nov 28, 2015)

.MCH said:


> No, but if you voted for him, you were obviously fine with his racism in handing him power. So that does make you complicit.
> 
> And stop with the both sides bs. One side is out protesting over a false belief that they're being oppressed while the other side is fighting for those who actually are. Stop trying to make it comparable so you can deflect and shrug off any responsibility.


Partisanship at its most pure. 

This "I'm right, you're wrong" mentality is exactly why the orange haired buffoon got into office in the first place. And no, it's not right for somebody to vote for a person purely out of spite or anger, but wouldn't the more constructive approach be to find out why half the country is so angry...you know...actually listening...and take steps towards creating an open dialogue, which would in turn quell a lot of that anger, without resorting to generalizing buzzwords like "racist" or bigoted"?

You can't just get rid of the people you disagree with, and pissing them off will only further the anger, which will in turn fuel actual bigotry and racism, which can eventually lead to acts of terrorism, such as the terrorism committed in Charlottesville.

I find it ironic that you refer to what I'm doing as "deflecting", yet in the same post you completely disregard one side of the argument. 

Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't defend the White Nationalist movement, and think it's absolutely disgusting that Trump didn't go after these fucks in the same way that he goes after pretty much everyone else. I mean, if you're going to be an abrasive bag of dicks, at least show some consistency. I won't deny for a second that he chose the words he did because he didn't want to lose the support of the white nationalists, which are undoubtedly mostly all pro-Trump.

That being said, while all white nationalists may have voted Trump, not every person that voted Trump is a white nationalist. It's when you start making broad stroke generalizations, which is obviously the main purpose of this thread, that shit hits the fan. And yes, that does parallel the generalizations that the far right have parroted about Muslims, even if it isn't to the same extreme.


----------



## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Rick_James said:


> Freedom of speech is a right that belongs to all Americans. It's one thing if the neo nazi's start attacking people to do something about it, but merely walking in the streets and chanting is something they should be allowed to do. A lot of people throughout American history have given up their lives to protect the right to free speech, it is something we should not disregard, even in the face of people who use it to say things that can be truly horrible. You don't change that sort of ideology by attacking the people that hold that view, rather you change it by having a meaningful discussion with the person.



.


















Nazi gathers, speeches and assembly has been banned before in the US and it should be banned now. They can't peaceful assemble because the end result of their idealogies is violence . There is no compromise ofrreason with a Nazi. Tell me good sir why do you think it is they banned Nazi assembly in the first place?


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

KingCosmos said:


> I see a lot of whining about freedom of speech trying to protect these scum of the earth. Nazis should NOT be allowed to "peacefully" assemble. There is no peace for their ideologies and the end result is violence. It can not be allowed to breathe and the pussy people that keep parroting " b-b-but freedom of speech" are suspect to me.
> 
> "The United States Government from the Late 30s through 1945 Actively banned Any Nazi Gatherings, Speeches or Organizations from operating Freely. The Nazi of Today celebrate and worship the same ideology of the Nazi of the 30s and 40s."
> 
> So get the fuck out of here with that freedom of speech shit. A Nazi should not have to right to peacefully assemble simple because there is no peace with them.


Somebody doesn't know history...

This happened during the War, you know what else happened? Japanese, Germans and Italians were put into Concentration Camps in America.

Before that the American Nazi party was a thing, it had a pretty big following. They weren't the only ones, there were also many American Communists.

After the War when the Nazis were defeated the US Government set it's eyes on Commies during the Red Scare. People lived in fear of being labeled a Communist and having the Government show up. Many innocent lives were ruined because during the Red Scare it was like the Salem Witch Trials.


----------



## Stipe Tapped (Jun 21, 2013)

Why do you assume that "right-wing" is analogous with racist? I'm a conservative because I like small government, a free market and liberty. Couldn't give a damn about race. Racism is evil whether it comes from white supremacists or BLM extremists. Not quite sure what point you're trying to make. That we're somehow making excuses for this because you made a thread about it before someone else did?


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## Steve Black Man (Nov 28, 2015)

The anti-dialogue rhetoric being spewed in this thread is just.....wow.


----------



## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...rlottesville-violence?mobile_switch=standard#

Cruz had absolutely no problem with calling it what it was. And this was a man who called out the BLM movement as well. Wrong is wrong, period. I appreciate this about the man. Unlike our president who read a piece of paper and acted like he wanted out of there and get to the back nine. 

There is too much "whataboutitis" floating around here. @Headliner might have to quarantine this forum as it might be catching. 

Many of you don't get it or choose not to. Racism is unacceptable and you can't justify it no matter what. If your argument is "The other side does it", that is a piss poor reason.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Miss Sally said:


> Somebody doesn't know history...
> 
> This happened during the War, you know what else happened? Japanese, Germans and Italians were put into Concentration Camps in America.
> 
> ...


I don't know history? I stated something that happened and then you stated it happened and then proceeded to go on about other topics that have nothing to due with my points . Stop deflecting . Of course it was during the War genius. But it should be done regardless. You don't deserve the right to spread hateful rhetoric that results in the genocide of people. Plenty of countries have perfectly fine laws to prevent this

"They stopped Nazi from assembling during the war b-b-but they had concentration camps also they were wrong to stop those peaceful Nazis just like the concentration camps."


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## Rick_James (May 11, 2012)

KingCosmos said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If I had to take a wild guess, I would assume it was because at that point in time we were at war with germany. That is not the case now, if there was a war going on, I'd likely think differently. As it stands now, these rallies typically consist of an extremely small amount of people.

Anyways, going to their rallies and and fighting them with violence ends up helping them more than harming them because it creates some that are sympathetic to their cause because they see people that are simply exercising their rights being victimized. 

In all reality the smart thing to do is to just ignore them. The KKK for example has existed for a long time yet how often have we seen them commit any sort of major attacks in the country? By ignoring them or discussing the merits of their ideology and pointing out the flaws, we've seen they have almost zero power. 

And saying "I don't think we should assault nazi's who exercise free speech" doesn't mean I support their views at all, or that "we should embrace parts of what they believe". That picture that I've seen you post more than once in this thread is just a bland generalization that has no accuracy. Disagreeing with someone while still not resorting to violence, does not somehow mean that you suddenly partially agree with said person.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

KingCosmos said:


> I don't know history? I stated something that happened and then you stated it happened and then proceeded to go on about other topics that have nothing to due with my points . Stop deflecting .
> 
> "They stopped Nazi from assembling during the war b-b-but they had concentration camps also they were wrong to stop those peaceful Nazis just like the concentration camps."


You don't know history because you're implying that Nazi gatherings were forbidden the entire existence of the Nazi Party - They weren't. So yes you're wrong in implying that they were since their inception.

It was done during the War, that is some major context to what you're saying, which you left out. I also pointed out during this time the US Government also tossed a bunch of American Citizens into Concentration Camps too, so pretending like this was somehow a great thing is silly.

I Also brought up the Red Scare because people were fucked over by it. The point is every time the US Government went out of it's way to silence people all it did was take away the freedoms of many people who didn't deserve it and spit on the Free Speech the Fore Fathers set up.


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

BruiserKC said:


> http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...rlottesville-violence?mobile_switch=standard#
> 
> Cruz had absolutely no problem with calling it what it was. And this was a man who called out the BLM movement as well. Wrong is wrong, period. I appreciate this about the man. Unlike our president who read a piece of paper and acted like he wanted out of there and get to the back nine.
> 
> ...


I think Trump's decision to not call it out for what it was, was influenced by Bannon and Miller. Even the Mooch went on air today and said Trump needed to be tougher in his condemnation.


----------



## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Miss Sally said:


> You don't know history because you're implying that Nazi gatherings were forbidden the entire existence of the Nazi Party - They weren't. So yes you're wrong in implying that they were since their inception.
> 
> It was done during the War, that is some major context to what you're saying, which you left out. I also pointed out during this time the US Government also tossed a bunch of American Citizens into Concentration Camps too, so pretending like this was somehow a great thing is silly.
> 
> I Also brought up the Red Scare because people were fucked over by it. The point is every time the US Government went out of it's way to silence people all it did was take away the freedoms of many people who didn't deserve it and spit on the Free Speech the Fore Fathers set up.


When did i imply they were forbidden for the entire existence? Where did i imply this? There has always been early Nazi symbolism in the US . Maybe stop assuming things.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Headliner said:


> I think Trump's decision to not call it out for what it was, was influenced by Bannon and Miller. Even the Mooch went on air today and said Trump needed to be tougher in his condemnation.


He did before when he said he had nothing to do with the Alt Right etc when Spencer first started getting onto the News. It was a mistake not make it blatantly clear this behavior wasn't acceptable when he gave his speech.



KingCosmos said:


> *"The United States Government from the Late 30s through 1945 Actively banned Any Nazi Gatherings, Speeches or Organizations from operating Freely. The Nazi of Today celebrate and worship the same ideology of the Nazi of the 30s and 40s."
> 
> So get the fuck out of here with that freedom of speech shit. A Nazi should not have to right to peacefully assemble simple because there is no peace with them*.


This whole statement is an implication of that. I just simply pointed out that before this the American Nazi Party was a thing, they were allowed to do whatever they wanted until the War. There was major context missing.


----------



## Rick_James (May 11, 2012)

While not taking away from the tragedy that took place, it annoys me that this was called a "unite the right" rally, nobody in their (no pun intended) right mind would want to unite with this kind of thing.


----------



## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Rick_James said:


> If I had to take a wild guess, I would assume it was because at that point in time we were at war with germany. That is not the case now, if there was a war going on, I'd likely think differently. As it stands now, these rallies typically consist of an extremely small amount of people.
> 
> Anyways, going to their rallies and and fighting them with violence ends up helping them more than harming them because it creates some that are sympathetic to their cause because they see people that are simply exercising their rights being victimized.
> 
> ...


Arrest them and lock them up. They shouldn't be allowed to do what they are doing. You wouldn't want ISIS member spreading their genocidal rhetoric in the streets I'm sure now would you?

Oh and I'm sure your stance is more naunced than the picture right? Early you said we should have discussion with these people. Please tell me what good dialogue could A Nazi whose end result is violence and a reasonable person on the right side have. What compromise can be made



Miss Sally said:


> He did before when he said he had nothing to do with the Alt Right etc when Spencer first started getting onto the News. It was a mistake not make it blatantly clear this behavior wasn't acceptable when he gave his speech.
> 
> 
> 
> This whole statement is an implication of that. I just simply pointed out that before this the American Nazi Party was a thing, they were allowed to do whatever they wanted until the War. There was major context missing.


Gee hmmm why would Nazi assembly be banned in the US probably just decided to do it will nilly for some day. Sorry if I didn't state it was during the WAR which should be common sense. Come on man


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## IDidPaige (Mar 18, 2017)

Leftism 101: Label everything you disagree with as "pure evil," so that it creates the illusion that your hateful violence is justified.


----------



## Oda Nobunaga (Jun 12, 2006)

BruiserKC said:


> http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...rlottesville-violence?mobile_switch=standard#
> 
> Cruz had absolutely no problem with calling it what it was. And this was a man who called out the BLM movement as well. Wrong is wrong, period. I appreciate this about the man. Unlike our president who read a piece of paper and acted like he wanted out of there and get to the back nine.
> 
> ...





Headliner said:


> I think Trump's decision to not call it out for what it was, was influenced by Bannon and Miller. Even the Mooch went on air today and said Trump needed to be tougher in his condemnation.


Agreed. Trump needs to stop tip-toeing around. He should show the same vim and passion on condemning something like this that he does with other terror attacks or -- need I say it -- his war of words on Twitter. A half-hearted whimper is unlike the guy. I know some people may disagree with his lack of tact on platforms like Twitter, but this was a situation that probably needed _that_ Trump.


----------



## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

Headliner said:


> I think Trump's decision to not call it out for what it was, was influenced by Bannon and Miller. Even the Mooch went on air today and said Trump needed to be tougher in his condemnation.


This is an example of trying to be all things to all people. Trump figured by calling everyone out he was safe. And the man is capable of showing passion when he wants to...this was a bad time to be on script. 

Meanwhile, Bannon does still have the ear of our POTUS. It's more like blackmail though because if Trump was to dump him Bannon would turn on him in a heartbeat.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Steve Black Man said:


> So everyone who voted Trump is a "racist fucktard" that, on the drop of a dime, would be totally willing to "mow over pedestrians with motor vehicles"?


*Did I say EVERYONE? No. There's a part of his contingency like @DesolationRow who make a ton of money and voted for him primarily for economic reasons. My problem is not with them and I definitely made sure to specify that my venom is strictly directed at the hypocritical, dumb ass racists, which make up the largest amount of his constituency.*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896409960761802752


> I'm no Trump fan, but that seems like a hilariously exaggerated generalization.
> 
> Most people are generally decent, regardless of whether they identify as liberal or conservative. What bothers me is how predators from the other side, and this does happen with both sides, are so willing and able to take the actions of one or a small minority of extremist individuals and use it to paint a portrait of a much larger group of people who are mostly decent.
> 
> It's the same thing that's been happening with Muslims for years.


*Do you not understand that that's my entire point? Headliner, myself, and many others have been saying for over a year that xenophobic Middle Eastern hatred in general is completely unjustified because their domestic attacks are at a minimum (and in some cases, non-existent) in comparison to the people who played a strong part in getting Trump elected. We've been saying that Trump's rhetoric empowers these racists. We kept being told that we're reaching. We were also told that ALL of Black Lives Matter is full of violent protesters. It's funny how they now want to separate themselves from the situation and put it on the actions of a few when: 

A: They condemned us for using that same logic.
B. We TOLD THEM this would happen, they're enabling it by supporting Trump's racist rhetoric, and they've vehemently denied it since the primaries.*


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

BruiserKC said:


> This is an example of trying to be all things to all people. Trump figured by calling everyone out he was safe. And the man is capable of showing passion when he wants to...this was a bad time to be on script.
> 
> Meanwhile, Bannon does still have the ear of our POTUS. It's more like blackmail though because if Trump was to dump him Bannon would turn on him in a heartbeat.


Condemning everyone was fine buuuut he also should have specifically mentioned Spenser and his group too. Should have been like "I condemn all acts of violence and violent protests but I want to point out people like the ones in Richard Spenser's group were wrong for their violence and behavior."

Though it also doesn't help that you got groups like Antifa lurking around but bursting out into an all out brawl no matter if Antifa was there was just uncalled for.


----------



## TKOK (Apr 6, 2006)

Miss Sally said:


> Condemning everyone was fine buuuut he also should have specifically mentioned Spenser and his group too. Should have been like "I condemn all acts of violence and violent protests but I want to point out people like the ones in Richard Spenser's group were wrong for their violence and behavior."
> 
> Though it also doesn't help that you got groups like Antifa lurking around but bursting out into an all out brawl no matter if Antifa was there was just uncalled for.


Yeah, comdemning the violent protest is fine and expected, but he should have said something like " I 100% want nothing to do with groups like Spencer's or anyone who shares their views" If Bernie Sanders could make it crystal clear he wanted nothing to do with that asshole who shot up that softball game, Trump should easily be able to make it clear he wants nothing to do with White Supremacist groups.


----------



## Steve Black Man (Nov 28, 2015)

Legit BOSS said:


> *Did I say EVERYONE? No. There's a part of his contingency like @DesolationRow who make a ton of money and voted for him primarily for economic reasons. My problem is not with them and I definitely made sure to specify that my venom is strictly directed at the hypocritical, dumb ass racists, which make up the largest amount of his constituency.*


But isn't that a generalization right there? Pigeonholing most of his constituency as "hypocritical, dumbass racists"? 

Basically, what I think it boils down to is this...

"Not all Trump supporters are white racists, but all white racists are Trump supporters".

Now I realize that this could still qualify as a generalization, but I certainly think it's more fair than the narratives that this thread seeks to put forth, which is basically that all right wingers and/or Trump supporters are white racists. We can argue semantics if you want, but that is the general vibe that this thread gives off, intentional or not.




Legit BOSS said:


> *Do you not understand that that's my entire point? Headliner, myself, and many others have been saying for over a year that xenophobic Middle Eastern hatred in general is completely unjustified because their domestic attacks are at a minimum in comparison to the people who played a strong part in getting Trump elected. We've been saying that Trump's rhetoric empowers these racists. We kept being told that we're reaching. We were also told that ALL of Black Lives Matter is full of violent protesters. It's funny how they now want to separate themselves from the situation and put it on the actions of a few when:
> 
> A: They condemned us for using that same logic.
> B. We TOLD THEM this would happen, they're enabling it by supporting Trump's racist rhetoric, and they've vehemently denied it since the primaries.*


Well that's just it, it's a never ending chain. One side demonizes the other for the actions of a select few, and the other does the exact same in retaliation, and people just become angrier and angrier in the process. That's how we got Trump. That's how we got Charlottestown. That's how we got Antifa. Until that chain is broken, nobody wins. And I'm sorry, but threads like this, that prey on partisanship, certainly don't do anything to help matters.


----------



## machomanjohncena (Feb 8, 2017)

IDidPaige said:


> It seems Trump supporters are done being civil with fascist leftist trash, too, and I've got a feeling it's not going to end too well for the latter.


It didn't end too well for the fascists and nazis in WW2. It's not going to end well for them this time around either.


----------



## WalkingInMemphis (Jul 7, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> Radical like saying we need to resist who the president is. Such an idea spits in the face of Democracy. I didn't protest once against Obama. He won. I waited it out fair and square. The DNC have openly called for these protests against the admin, and that to me is no better than the worst of the violent protesters.


Well if you did that, congrats to you. Many of our fellow Americans did not take that tone.

You had Mitch McConnell literally say "We want to make Obama a one term president". 






Representative Joe Wilson, literally yelling out *YOU LIE!* during a State of the Union addresses.

Towards the end, I wasn't the biggest Obama supporter, but let's not act like there weren't a shit ton of people saying "Not my president" and still calling him a "Muslim" when he clearly wasn't.


----------



## altreineirialx (Sep 20, 2016)

Dodges dont move like that and maybe their was a drone
navigating the car.

The Challenger airbags deploy not based on solely on MPH, but impact degree as well. There are sensors in the bumper, not the bumper cover. The bumper cover is plastic-the sensors are in the steel bumper.

This was obviously a government modified vehicle. The window tints were
not legal and if it was a professional driver he must wear a mouthpiece
to ram like he did.


----------



## Steve Black Man (Nov 28, 2015)

WalkingInMemphis said:


> Well if you did that, congrats to you. Many of our fellow Americans did not take that tone.
> 
> You had Mitch McConnell literally say "We want to make Obama a one term president".
> 
> ...


That whole Muslim thing was idiotic :lol


----------



## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

altreineirialx said:


> Dodges dont move like that and maybe their was a drone
> navigating the car.
> 
> The Challenger airbags deploy not based on solely on MPH, but impact degree as well. There are sensors in the bumper, not the bumper cover. The bumper cover is plastic-the sensors are in the steel bumper.
> ...


Please don't say you believe that nonsense. There was no government conspiracy here at all. As much as I am not the biggest fan of our government and the overreach it has been accomplished over the last few administrations I am not going to believe the bullshit that the government was behind this. Let me guess that the Sandy Hook kids were in on this too and the plan was put together at the bowling alley Tupac and Elvis run. 

What I am more interested in is how are you able to type with all that aluminum foil wrapped around you?


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

WalkingInMemphis said:


> Well if you did that, congrats to you. Many of our fellow Americans did not take that tone.
> 
> You had Mitch McConnell literally say "We want to make Obama a one term president".
> 
> ...


Secret Muslims and Russian Conspirators, how did the US Intelligence Services get so careless?!


----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Legit BOSS said:


> *Yes we should if that viewpoint enables racist fucktards who mow over pedestrians with motor vehicles. The dumbass who runs this country was elected by the vast majority of these people, he knows it, and that's why he's tip toeing around his words as to not offend them, which is a courtesy that he doesn't offer to any other group. Fuck him and fuck them. I'm not holding anything back when it comes to that.*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896492127911149568


If that's the attitude your're going to have towards basically any conservative or anybody on the right, then you're not really helping at all, and only fueling the fire that with time leads to both sides becoming so separated, that we end up with what we have here. I'm not saying I agree with their viewpoints either, but I'm up for talking with that side and opening up debates as to why their views are what they are, instead of going straight into their faces and attacking them. But if you are only talking about the people who are part of the violence, the KKK, Nazi, and white supremacists, I have no problem with that whatsoever. 

And the viewpoint of a conservative versus the viewpoint of these white nationalists, and other extremists who feel the need to resort to cowardly acts of violence to uphold their opinions, are being lambasted and shamed by just about every single person, no matter what side they are on. It is not fair to lump in your everyday conservative with these people, not at all, the same way it's not fair to lump Antifa members with most liberals.

Also, I do agree 100% that Trump needs to bite down and condemn anybody who even thinks about resorting to violence for their political opinion. He is tip-toeing around this, and now more than ever IS NOT to time to be doing that.


----------



## Majmo_Mendez (Jul 18, 2014)

Only good commie is a dead one. And this is coming from Eastern European.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896749274771279874


----------



## Steve Black Man (Nov 28, 2015)

Since when has Trump ever been one for "tip toeing" around something?

Out of context, there's nothing wrong with what he said regarding the tragedy in Charlottestown. But taking everything into context, he skirted around this issue like it was the fucking plague.

If you're going to be a noisy windbag, at least show some fucking consistency.

Shit like that only fuels partisanship and generalizations even more.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Dr. Middy said:


> But if you are only talking about the people who are part of the violence, the KKK, Nazi, then I 100% agree with that.


*Yes, that's exactly it. You will never see me flaming a guy like Deso. I only have a problem with hypocrites, racists, and hypocrites who enable the racists by regurgitating Trump's xenophobic rhetoric.*



> Also, I do agree 100% that Trump needs to bite down and condemn anybody who even thinks about resorting to violence for their political opinion. He is tip-toeing around this, and now more than ever IS NOT to time to be doing that.


*Thank you.*


----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Legit BOSS said:


> *Yes, that's exactly it. You will never see me flaming a guy like Deso. I only have a problem with hypocrites, racists, and hypocrites who enable the racists by regurgitating Trump's xenophobic rhetoric.*


I'm more of a peaceful dude, but I won't stand for people who actually do support the acts of violence these people are doing either. And while it does seem like there are people on the forum here who actually do share similar ideals, thankfully just about everybody here is against the very notion of the idea of violence with political views backing it. 

Also, why can't everybody be like Deso? :lol


----------



## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Years_of_Lead_(Italy)


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Steve Black Man said:


> Since when has Trump ever been one for "tip toeing" around something?
> 
> Out of context, there's nothing wrong with what he said regarding the tragedy in Charlottestown. But taking everything into context, he skirted around this issue like it was the fucking plague.
> 
> ...


100% agree.

Trump is the kinda guy that would do DX crotch chops to Congress when he vetoes something of theirs or gets something he wants.

He's never quiet about most things, there are times he has been. During the debates there were times when he was calm and just spoke his mind - That being said doing that this time wasn't the right move because it can appear disingenuous even if it was not.

Hopefully he rectifies this and goes back to his ways, he loses nothing by it. The celebs and people that hate just to hate him won't care but to everyone else it will matter to them and those are the people that count.


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

altreineirialx said:


> Dodges dont move like that and maybe their was a drone
> navigating the car.
> 
> The Challenger airbags deploy not based on solely on MPH, but impact degree as well. There are sensors in the bumper, not the bumper cover. The bumper cover is plastic-the sensors are in the steel bumper.
> ...


You forget /sarcasm at the end.


----------



## just1988 (Jun 15, 2009)

*Let's take the fact they're right-wing out of this. Any kind of group going round, attacking people (and I believe even running somebody over, killing them) needs a closer look at. There's this strange line between free speech and openly being a dick in America which breeds this kind of hatred.

I don't have the answers but hopefully this weekends scenes serve as a lesson for everybody and we can all come out of this in a better position.*


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

Very important analysis of these events.

#PurgeTheRacialCollectivists.


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

just1988 said:


> *Let's take the fact they're right-wing out of this. Any kind of group going round, attacking people (and I believe even running somebody over, killing them) needs a closer look at. There's this strange line between free speech and openly being a dick in America which breeds this kind of hatred.
> 
> I don't have the answers but hopefully this weekends scenes serve as a lesson for everybody and we can all come out of this in a better position.*


This weekends scenes will be lighting the torchpaper for now segregation and anger, nothing good will come of this.:frown2:


----------



## altreineirialx (Sep 20, 2016)

Our bigger, better pro-White rallies are drawing increased panicky attention from the mainstream media and more violence from antifa thugs. Pro-Whites are a force to be reckoned with...and the enemy knows it.


----------



## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

draykorinee said:


> This weekends scenes will be lighting the torchpaper for now segregation and anger, nothing good will come of this.:frown2:


Which is what MSM wants.


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

There are no more babyfaces and heels. People just rationalise the actions of their favourites into face moves and the actions of those they hate into heel moves.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Race war is starting 8 months later then I guessed.


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

* I do love those torches though. Where can I get one of those, at Home Depot?*


----------



## The Capo (Mar 13, 2017)

My question is why do these guys idolize two losers like the confederate states and the nazis? What did they have a combined reign of 20 years? These guys a truly pathetic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

This is absolutely insane. The cognitive dissonance of the typical left-wing folk here is at an all time high. Most of the people on the right even I take exception to on some of their beliefs are actually being VERY reasonable. But you don't want to hear it because your narrative is already made up. :lmao So pathetic.



Legit BOSS said:


> *Do you not understand that that's my entire point? Headliner, myself, and many others have been saying for over a year that xenophobic Middle Eastern hatred in general is completely unjustified because their domestic attacks are at a minimum (and in some cases, non-existent) in comparison to the people who played a strong part in getting Trump elected. We've been saying that Trump's rhetoric empowers these racists. We kept being told that we're reaching. We were also told that ALL of Black Lives Matter is full of violent protesters. It's funny how they now want to separate themselves from the situation and put it on the actions of a few when:
> 
> A: They condemned us for using that same logic.
> B. We TOLD THEM this would happen, they're enabling it by supporting Trump's racist rhetoric, and they've vehemently denied it since the primaries.*


Probably like 90% of the modern left support BLM and turn a blind eye to the blatant dumb shit some in that movement say.
And probably less than 10% of the modern right support inciting race wars and advocate and perpetuate ideas of white supremacy.

There's a difference when the vast majority of platformed people on the left support BLM unquestionably or don't discuss the negatives of the movement, and when the far-right "Neo Nazis" and white supremacists etc pop up, the rest of the right immediately distance themselves from them.

Those people you and others accuse of 'damage control' or something similar actually just don't believe the shit the far-right sling. Total intellectual dishonesty to impose the idea they actually do agree but are distancing themselves for political reasons.


----------



## The Gimp (Jul 20, 2017)

FITZ said:


> Race war is starting 8 months later then I guessed.


And 46 years later than charles Manson guessed.


----------



## SureUmm (Dec 4, 2016)

People losing their jobs because they were outed online as being at the rally is so fucked up. There is a lot of high-fiving on the left about this and it makes my skin crawl. If the man commits a crime, punish him. A belief is not a crime, no matter how much you hate it.


----------



## Cooper09 (Aug 24, 2016)

No difference between these White-Supremacist assholes and the BLM thugs. But I suppose people would lose their shit if Taylor Swift voiced her support for the whites just like Beyonce voiced hers for BLM.


----------



## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Cooper09 said:


> No difference between these White-Supremacist assholes and the BLM thugs. But I suppose people would lose their shit if Taylor Swift voiced her support for the whites just like Beyonce voiced hers for BLM.


Thugs aka codeword for n*gger


----------



## BigDaveBatista (Aug 23, 2015)

violence from either side is wrong, racial discrimination from either side is wrong, ignoring the argument from either side as long as its cordial is wrong 

give them all a joint an calm the fuck down imo


----------



## BigDaveBatista (Aug 23, 2015)

Steve Black Man said:


> Since when has Trump ever been one for "tip toeing" around something?
> 
> Out of context, there's nothing wrong with what he said regarding the tragedy in Charlottestown. But taking everything into context, he skirted around this issue like it was the fucking plague.
> 
> ...


i think hes a bit more concerned about the threat of nuclear war than a rally, hes condemned the violence which is all he needed to do imo 

people grasp at straws to have a go at trump, if he came out and said these white nationalists will be dealt swiftly and aggressively he'd be condemned for that as well 

he can't win with the left at the moment


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

SureUmm said:


> People losing their jobs because they were outed online as being at the rally is so fucked up. There is a lot of high-fiving on the left about this and it makes my skin crawl. If the man commits a crime, punish him. A belief is not a crime, no matter how much you hate it.


Great news, I wouldn't employ a vocal racist either.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Cooper09 said:


> No difference between these White-Supremacist assholes and the BLM thugs. But I suppose people would lose their shit if Taylor Swift voiced her support for the whites just like Beyonce voiced hers for BLM.


Big difference. BLM is NOT a black supremacist group. I may not agree with their ideologies, I obviously don't agree with members within that spout violent rhetoric, but BLM at its core is not a black supremacist group even if some of their rhetoric sounds like it --- A lot of white nationalist rhetoric sounds supremacist, but it isn't ... White Supremacy can be compared to those fringe Black groups that believe that white people are mutants. They're both fringe groups with really low membership. 

BLM has a lot that's wrong about it (just like white nationalism has a lot that's wrong with it), but a supremacist attitude is not central to their ideology.

Conflations like these are partly contributing to the divisiveness we are seeing today.


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Reaper said:


> Conflations like these are partly contributing to the divisiveness we are seeing today.


White nationalism isn't white supremacy either, they can be mentioned together but you can't say they're the same. I think one (supremacy) is a branch of the other (nationalism).

They might not be the same but I would argue the BLM movement as a whole is more dangerous than white supremacy as it is now. For a handful of reasons, too. From the way both groups position their beliefs in mainstream view, to traditionalism/conservatism versus postmodernism, and how BLM is essentially a branch of postmodernism.

If the white supremacist movement had the stranglehold over mainstream media, politics and everything that BLM has it would definitely be more dangerous but I think that's socially impossible.

Depending on how someone was to define white supremacy I would put it either way, way more disgusting than BLM or way, way less.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Oxidamus said:


> White nationalism isn't white supremacy either, they can be mentioned together but you can't call one the other.
> 
> They might not be the same but I would argue the BLM movement as a whole is more dangerous than white supremacy as it is now. For a handful of reasons, too. From the way both groups position their beliefs in mainstream view, to traditionalism/conservatism versus postmodernism, and how BLM is essentially a branch of postmodernism.
> 
> ...


Wait. Did you read my post. I said exactly that white nationalism isn't white supremacy ... That was kind of the whole point of my post. I compared BLM to White Nationalism on the premise that white nationalism isn't white supremacy just as BLM isn't black supremacy. 

But there is overlap. I mean, white supremacists infilterate white nationalists just as black supremacists infiltrate BLM.


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Reaper said:


> Wait. Did you read my post. I said exactly that white nationalism isn't white supremacy ... That was kind of the whole point of my post. I compared BLM to White Nationalism on the premise that white nationalism isn't white supremacy just as BLM isn't black supremacy.
> 
> But there is overlap. I mean, white supremacists infilterate white nationalists just as black supremacists infiltrate BLM.


Just like how you just quoted me before I finished editing my post I did the same to you. :cudi
But I finished editing mine within the minute before it lets you know you edited it. :cudi


----------



## BoT (Feb 24, 2015)

so what happens if i think both sides are retarded but i'm leaning towards the right?


Am I leaning towards being a retard?


----------



## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

Yet BLM isn't a hate group either. Stop trying to make this about the whites hating on the blacks (Which is sick btw). There is racism and hatred from both sides. 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/ne...lotte-shooting-protests/article105105896.html


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

BoTahina said:


> so what happens if i think both sides are retarded but i'm leaning towards the right?
> 
> 
> Am I leaning towards being a retard?


Theres nothing wrong with leaning left or right, but lean too far and you fall over and look like a dick.


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

I love how talking heads for the left will do anything to hop around a mental minefield to justify the violent actions of BLM and ATIFA. 

But when nutjobs on the other side commit violence, that's domestic terrorism. 

Meanwhile, I'm the asshole that looks at both sides and say they're full of shit and both sides are wrong. 

Calling for violence or violence acts done against the innocent in the name of your cause is wrong and only serves to invalidate you. I really don't feel like I'm asking too much of you to have your protest and not break and burn shit or hurt people.


----------



## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

Cooper09 said:


> No difference between these White-Supremacist assholes and the BLM thugs. But I suppose people would lose their shit if Taylor Swift voiced her support for the whites just like Beyonce voiced hers for BLM.


To be equal opportunity, BLM needs to call out and evict from their ranks the ones who openly promote violence. "Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon" does not refer to the tasty hot dogs wrapped in a pastry.


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

So apparently Trump's own staff asked him to specifically denounce white supremacists and Trump refused. That may explain why the white house released that statement to try to cover for him.

This is undefendable.


----------



## Steve Black Man (Nov 28, 2015)

Headliner said:


> So apparently Trump's own staff asked him to specifically denounce white supremacists and Trump refused. That may explain why the white house released that statement to try to cover for him.
> 
> This is undefendable.


We may have had our disagreements in this thread, but I'm with you 100% on that one.


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Headliner said:


> So apparently Trump's own staff asked him to specifically denounce white supremacists and Trump refused. That may explain why the white house released that statement to try to cover for him.
> 
> This is undefendable.


If you read something and open a new tab to post about it on wrestlingforum.com do you think you could go back to that first tab and copy-paste the URL in your wrestlingforum.com post for us to see please? :x


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Oxidamus said:


> If you read something and open a new tab to post about it on wrestlingforum.com do you think you could go back to that first tab and copy-paste the URL in your wrestlingforum.com post for us to see please? :x


I'm on my phone. Look up Don Beyer's twitter. He is a member of Congress. Before anyone tries to spin this into partisanship, he has no reason to lie. Any member of Congress can just make a call and get in touch with aids and staff if they want to find out something.


----------



## SureUmm (Dec 4, 2016)

draykorinee said:


> Great news, I wouldn't employ a vocal racist either.


Sure, an employer can do what they want. It's the online "let's expose these people and retweet their picture" brigade I don't like. It's not the big problem in all this, but I think the big problem is pretty well covered.

edit: Now, I'm reading about the guy who posted the awful story about Heather Heyer. And online mobilization got his asshole website kicked off of Go Daddy. So that's awesome.

Life is coming at me fast.


----------



## TheNightmanCometh (Feb 1, 2017)

I made it to page 10 and I'm tapped out. Jesus Christ, people are just the worst. I can't even wrap my head around how easily fooled people can allow themselves to be. Look, I condemn any, and all, forms of violence. If you run a car through a group of people, you deserve justice to be a hard, fast, and raw bitch slap across your face. It doesn't matter if you're white, Muslim, Chinese, black, or green. That being said, all I'm seeing are people willingly allowing themselves to be riled up. I see people trying to push violence, on both sides. These people are animals and we should not be giving them any sort of recognition. I'm sorry, this is just maddening. I'm gonna work my 20 years and move to a fucking island of one.


----------



## Crasp (Feb 26, 2014)

SureUmm said:


> Sure, an employer can do what they want. It's the online "let's expose these people and retweet their picture" brigade I don't like. It's not the big problem in all this, but I think the big problem is pretty well covered.
> 
> edit: Now, I'm reading about the guy who posted the awful story about Heather Heyer. And online mobilization got his asshole website kicked off of Go Daddy. So that's awesome.
> 
> Life is coming at me fast.


Indeed it is. Are you not somewhat contradicting yourself here? 

You don't like online mobilzation bringing attention and visibility to openly held views of certain people or groups, but you do like it when online mobilzation brings attention and visibility to openly held views of certain people or groups.


----------



## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

Headliner said:


> So apparently Trump's own staff asked him to specifically denounce white supremacists and Trump refused. That may explain why the white house released that statement to try to cover for him.
> 
> This is undefendable.


*I don't even see why he refuses to do it. It's not like these people have anyone else they can vote for. The racist right, much like the racist left, really have no alternatives when they vote. They have to be team players. You'd think someone like Trump would realize this and do what's best for him and his party. But noooooo :lmao Trump....what a douche.*


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

AryaDark said:


> *I don't even see why he refuses to do it. It's not like these people have anyone else they can vote for. The racist right, much like the racist left, really have no alternatives when they vote. They have to be team players. You'd think someone like Trump would realize this and do what's best for him and his party. But noooooo :lmao Trump....what a douche.*


He'll get attacked by the media regardless. "It wasn't sincere enough" or "it wasn't early enough" or "yeah but what about back when he said this...". It's never enough with the MSM and the left. I don't blame Trump for not wanting to play their games.

Fact is Antifa were at the protests armed with a bunch of weapons and were involved in the violence as well, but people only want to talk about one side of it. It's bullshit. What we have are two fringe ideologies on the political extremes, neither of which represent the base of either political party or even really a significant amount of people in the grand scheme of things. Yet people want to lump the entire left in with Antifa, or lump the entire right in with the white nationalists. Both of these thought processes are cancer. I'd rather Trump stay out of it rather than only condemn one side of the equation. He originally said both sides, which I thought was fair. Of course, that wasn't enough for the media. He has to specifically criticize only the white nationalists or it has to be implied he's some bigot even though there's no evidence of that.


----------



## BoFreakinDallas (Jul 8, 2017)

Cooper09 said:


> No difference between these White-Supremacist assholes and the BLM thugs. But I suppose people would lose their shit if Taylor Swift voiced her support for the whites just like Beyonce voiced hers for BLM.


A BS false equivalency.

One group believe's in racial superiority and all non whites do not belong in this country.

Another group believes that their is no accountability in the legal system when unarmed black people are shot by police. No ANTIFAFA or BLM protestors are waving flags of Zimbabwe/Robert Mugabe and implying whites are not real Americans who need to leave.


While violence from any protestor or groups is wrong it is BS to lump in everyone with literally KKK/Nazi's and White Nationalists when their is no other equivalent of that on the other side.


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

BoFreakinDallas said:


> A BS false equivalency.
> 
> One group believe's in racial superiority and all non whites do not belong in this country.
> 
> ...


You responded with your own false equivalency by taking the most extreme views of one group and comparing them to the most moderate views of another.


----------



## The5star_Kid (Mar 4, 2013)

Its sad that the world richest nation has barely moved beyond 1920.


----------



## BoFreakinDallas (Jul 8, 2017)

CamillePunk said:


> You responded with your own false equivalency by taking the most extreme views of one group and comparing them to the most moderate views of another.


Yes I guess I am too quick to assume the worst of people with KKK and Nazi Flag's at a rally and those making literal Nazi salutes and public speakers like Spencer who have openly talked about White Nationilism and racial superiority. I am sure there are more moderate voices on StormFront,Klan Rallies and who believe in Racial Superiority.


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Cooper09 said:


> No difference between these White-Supremacist assholes and the BLM thugs. But I suppose people would lose their shit if Taylor Swift voiced her support for the whites just like Beyonce voiced hers for BLM.


Yeah this is bullshit. You white apologists are going to learn that this shit isn't flying. Another gone from the thread. Now get mad.


----------



## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

BoFreakinDallas said:


> A BS false equivalency.
> 
> One group believe's in racial superiority and all non whites do not belong in this country.
> 
> ...


BLM is not a hate group uh??? There is violence, racism, and hatred from all parties. 

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/0...tally-beaten-dragged-by-charlotte-protesters/


----------



## BORT (Oct 5, 2009)

krtgolfing said:


> BLM is not a hate group uh??? There is violence, racism, and hatred from all parties.
> 
> http://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/0...tally-beaten-dragged-by-charlotte-protesters/


Yea it seems most have never heard of the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. BLM may not be a hate group but their members sure have shown tons of hate, and it should not be ignored.


----------



## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

krtgolfing said:


> BLM is not a hate group uh??? There is violence, racism, and hatred from all parties.
> 
> http://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/0...tally-beaten-dragged-by-charlotte-protesters/


I love how people try to characterize BLM as some ideology of hate. I also love how people just call all black people BLM like They are some collective. People literally think BLM is some group scheming. 

It's funny because I'm in NC and the people that went to the protest just gathered it wasn't some BLM plan and everybody there wasn't "BLM". Comparing BLM and white supremacy is pure lunacy but I like when people do it so I know who to keep my eye on.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

SureUmm said:


> People losing their jobs because they were outed online as being at the rally is so fucked up. There is a lot of high-fiving on the left about this and it makes my skin crawl. If the man commits a crime, punish him. A belief is not a crime, no matter how much you hate it.


If you are proud enough to show your face and lend your support enough to these groups, then you must allow the organisations that have made the mistake of associating with you the opportunity to rectify it. Something something FREE MARKET :CENA

Wonderful thing about having ideals that are incompatible with civilised society!


----------



## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

I feel like everyone has lost their fucking common sense. Being a white supremacist/neo-nazi, marching on a school, running some some liberal lady over with your car is wrong. Being a BLM guy burning down Baltimore, rioting, looting, breaking down stores, burning down Ferguson, stopping traffic in the streets for your protests when people are trying to get to work or possibly to the hospital, is wrong. I don't see why both sides can't see the wrong in what they are doing.


----------



## BORT (Oct 5, 2009)

AmWolves10 said:


> I feel like everyone has lost their fucking common sense. Being a white supremacist/neo-nazi, marching on a school, running some some liberal lady over with your car is wrong. Being a BLM guy burning down Baltimore, rioting, looting, breaking down stores, burning down Ferguson, stopping traffic in the streets for your protests when people are trying to get to work or possibly to the hospital, is wrong. I don't see why both sides can't see the wrong in what they are doing.


Because people are bias and don't care about what's true. All they care about is protecting the image of the parties and groups they are associated with. It's tribalism at it's finest. 

Politcal parties are a fuckin cancer.


----------



## skypod (Nov 13, 2014)

AmWolves10 said:


> I feel like everyone has lost their fucking common sense. Being a white supremacist/neo-nazi, marching on a school, running some some liberal lady over with your car is wrong. Being a BLM guy burning down Baltimore, rioting, looting, breaking down stores, burning down Ferguson, stopping traffic in the streets for your protests when people are trying to get to work or possibly to the hospital, is wrong. I don't see why both sides can't see the wrong in what they are doing.





The difference people are seeing with this, is that even though BLM protests can resort to that, the root cause of those protests was the handling and killing of Black people. It was about Black people living their daily lives ever so differently to white people, whether it be opportunities or how they are seen as a race. About America's lack of responsibility or facing up to the fact that they enslaved a race and seperated them through laws (seriously, you should have a lot of museums and memorials for this shit similar to what Germany has done in respect to the Holocaust). America doesn't really seem troubled by its history. There's strong emotion in that distance and feeling isolated from the country you belong in.

I'm not getting anything from these white supremacists other that "hur dur Liberal media! Statue!". Like does that really affect your day to day life that much? Jesus Christ I'd like to show these people some hardships.


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

skypod said:


> The difference people are seeing with this, is that even though BLM protests can resort to that, the root cause of those protests was the handling and killing of Black people. It was about Black people living their daily lives ever so differently to white people, whether it be opportunities or how they are seen as a race. About America's lack of responsibility or facing up to the fact that they enslaved a race and seperated them through laws (seriously, you should have a lot of museums and memorials for this shit similar to what Germany has done in respect to the Holocaust). America doesn't really seem troubled by its history. There's strong emotion in that distance and feeling isolated from the country you belong in.
> 
> I'm not getting anything from these white supremacists other that "hur dur Liberal media! Statue!". Like does that really affect your day to day life that much? Jesus Christ I'd like to show these people some hardships.


Thank god someone has sense. I remember having to type a fucking essay to explain shit to them last year but people like them don't get it.


----------



## TheNightmanCometh (Feb 1, 2017)

skypod said:


> The difference people are seeing with this, is that even though BLM protests can resort to that, the root cause of those protests was the handling and killing of Black people. It was about Black people living their daily lives ever so differently to white people, whether it be opportunities or how they are seen as a race. About America's lack of responsibility or facing up to the fact that they enslaved a race and seperated them through laws (seriously, you should have a lot of museums and memorials for this shit similar to what Germany has done in respect to the Holocaust). America doesn't really seem troubled by its history. There's strong emotion in that distance and feeling isolated from the country you belong in.
> 
> I*'m not getting anything from these white supremacists other that "hur dur Liberal media! Statue!". Like does that really affect your day to day life that much? Jesus Christ I'd like to show these people some hardships.*


You can talk about white supremacists, but people are painting those words with a broad brush. I'm as anti-racist as they come, but I'm sure some have misconstrued my views as being racist. I'm white and I have it hard. My family are a bunch of poor white-trash okies, they've had it hard. Muslims have it hard. Mexicans have it hard, women have it hard, men have it hard, we ALL have it hard. The goal is to overcome your obstacles, not be consumed by them. I see a lot of people saying it's okay to be consumed by them and that's wrong. What's worse is that I see an acceptance of laziness. 
"Life is hard, blame them!" It's not them, it's you.


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

AmWolves10 said:


> I feel like everyone has lost their fucking common sense. Being a white supremacist/neo-nazi, marching on a school, running some some liberal lady over with your car is wrong. Being a BLM guy burning down Baltimore, rioting, looting, breaking down stores, burning down Ferguson, stopping traffic in the streets for your protests when people are trying to get to work or possibly to the hospital, is wrong. I don't see why both sides can't see the wrong in what they are doing.


Thank You! 

Give this person a cookie!


----------



## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

TheNightmanCometh said:


> You can talk about white supremacists, but people are painting those words with a broad brush. I'm as anti-racist as they come, but I'm sure some have misconstrued my views as being racist. I'm white and I have it hard. My family are a bunch of poor white-trash okies, they've had it hard. Muslims have it hard. Mexicans have it hard, women have it hard, men have it hard, we ALL have it hard. The goal is to overcome your obstacles, not be consumed by them. I see a lot of people saying it's okay to be consumed by them and that's wrong. What's worse is that I see an acceptance of laziness.
> *"Life is hard, blame them!"* It's not them, it's you.


Well, there is something to blame, it's not white people or rich people or racism or KKK or anything like that. It's centralized banking and the absence of a true free market that makes things near impossible to break through glass ceilings. 

I agree with your overall post though that we should be always looking to better our situations regardless of circumstance.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

AmWolves10 said:


> Well, there is something to blame, it's not white people or rich people or racism or KKK or anything like that. It's centralized banking and the absence of a true free market that makes things near impossible to break through glass ceilings.
> 
> I agree with your overall post though that we should be always looking to better our situations regardless of circumstance.


Literally super confused as to how you can say racism isn't causing minorities problems after the weekend that has just passed.


----------



## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

samizayn said:


> Literally super confused as to how you can say racism isn't causing minorities problems after the weekend that has just passed.


Isolated event by an extremely extremely small fraction of the country. Like the dummies who shot the cops. There are shitholes everywhere like gangs/drug dealers, murderers, rapists. I'm surprised that the whole country is in a fuss about these kinds of things instead of larger broader societal problems. This is why we never get anywhere.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

AmWolves10 said:


> Isolated event by an extremely extremely small fraction of the country. Like the dummies who shot the cops. There are shitholes everywhere like gangs/drug dealers, murderers, rapists. I'm surprised that the whole country is in a fuss about these kinds of things instead of larger broader societal problems. This is why we never get anywhere.


No it isn't isolated. Events like these are a manifestation of a pervasive culture within a society. Denying that it is part of the culture is willful ignorance at this point. It is a HUGE societal problem and denying it is exactly why we are not getting anywhere.


----------



## SureUmm (Dec 4, 2016)

Crasp said:


> Indeed it is. Are you not somewhat contradicting yourself here?
> 
> You don't like online mobilzation bringing attention and visibility to openly held views of certain people or groups, but you do like it when online mobilzation brings attention and visibility to openly held views of certain people or groups.


Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. My point is that framing can change how we view things.


----------



## skypod (Nov 13, 2014)

TheNightmanCometh said:


> You can talk about white supremacists, but people are painting those words with a broad brush. I'm as anti-racist as they come, but I'm sure some have misconstrued my views as being racist. I'm white and I have it hard. My family are a bunch of poor white-trash okies, they've had it hard. Muslims have it hard. Mexicans have it hard, women have it hard, men have it hard, we ALL have it hard. The goal is to overcome your obstacles, not be consumed by them. I see a lot of people saying it's okay to be consumed by them and that's wrong. What's worse is that I see an acceptance of laziness.
> "Life is hard, blame them!" It's not them, it's you.



I do agree that there's a pocket of poor white people that aren't represented by politics or the media, whether that be the entertainment industry or the news. This seems to have come from both sides. America seems to pride itself on this middle class family, 2.4 children in a nice home with attached garage, 1/2 cars and all children in college. This is whats been represented for decades as the ultimate American dream. It feels like this is why people found gay marriage so threatening to that as well. 

It's no surprise that a) Black people feel isolated from this as if they don't belong to the American conservative fantasy and b) poor whites feel it doesn't represent them either. Genuinely think a lot of minorities believe white people generally live like people in Bel Air do. There's still plenty whites strung out on meth in shitty apartments in inner cities. It's not as seperate as identity politics leads people to believe. 

However it doesn't feel like lot of the alt right trolls actually belong to that latter group so it comes across as spitting the dummy out because of representation (when in reality Whites are still presented majorly everywhere).


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## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

samizayn said:


> No it isn't isolated. Events like these are a manifestation of a pervasive culture within a society. Denying that it is part of the culture is willful ignorance at this point. It is a HUGE societal problem and denying it is exactly why we are not getting anywhere.


No, the problem is the increased regulation of the job market and the need for increasing amounts of certification and licensing leading to millennials and even older people graduating college and in most cases graduate school with crippling amounts of debt. And that's with the increased cost of rent in cities where their degrees could actually get them a job with a stagnating median income despite all of this. Free enterprise is collapsing. And you people are hung up on "racism". Really focusing on the lowest rung of the totem pole of societal problems. Good job.


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## BORT (Oct 5, 2009)

AmWolves10 said:


> Isolated event by an extremely extremely small fraction of the country. Like the dummies who shot the cops. There are shitholes everywhere like gangs/drug dealers, murderers, rapists. I'm surprised that the whole country is in a fuss about these kinds of things instead of larger broader societal problems. This is why we never get anywhere.


Sensationalism is a very real thing that people seem to also be forgetting about. After what happened with those White Nationalist scumbags, the media would make you think white racists are running over people left and right on a daily. All the media has to do is brodcast something over and over again to make it seem like a bigger issue and all of a sudden it then becomes worse than cancer. Say something enough and people will believe it. 

That being said I do believe there's a problem in society socially that needs to be adressed. However it's WAY WAAAY more complicated than "racism".


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## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

KingCosmos said:


> I love how people try to characterize BLM as some ideology of hate. I also love how people just call all black people BLM like They are some collective. People literally think BLM is some group scheming.
> 
> It's funny because I'm in NC and the people that went to the protest just gathered it wasn't some BLM plan and everybody there wasn't "BLM". Comparing BLM and white supremacy is pure lunacy but I like when people do it so I know who to keep my eye on.


Keep trying to act like BLM isn't another racist group against whites. Word it however you like. Them beating the kid was one incident. Didn't even mention the vandalism of property and blocking a major interstate. Quiet protests right? I lived in NC during the incident. Their is hatred from whites towards blacks and blacks towards whites. Simple as that.


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## jayman321 (Jun 6, 2013)

Liberals, lol.


----------



## skypod (Nov 13, 2014)

Is there not White people that march with BLM? Don't think I saw many Blacks with tiki torches the other day...


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

krtgolfing said:


> Keep trying to act like BLM isn't another racist group against whites. Word it however you like. Them beating the kid was one incident. Didn't even mention the vandalism of property and blocking a major interstate. Quiet protests right? I lived in NC during the incident. Their is hatred from whites towards blacks and blacks towards whites. Simple as that.


What do you mean them? You catogorize them as BLM who beat up the kid. I love how you seem to want to label them BLM so you can feel better about white supremacy

If you were in Charolette like you say you were then you know it's just people from the neighboorhod and surrounding areas that came out to speak out about a cop killing someone. Not to preach white hate like you are trying to so desperately prove. There were people of every race there pissed about police activity.
You want to try to deflect the issues of white supremacy and say look at BLM to minimize it.

BLM is not comparable to damn Neo Nazis


----------



## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

AryaDark said:


> *I don't even see why he refuses to do it. It's not like these people have anyone else they can vote for. The racist right, much like the racist left, really have no alternatives when they vote. They have to be team players. You'd think someone like Trump would realize this and do what's best for him and his party. But noooooo :lmao Trump....what a douche.*


These days, it's more about threatening to stay home. The GOP saw this in 2012 with approximately 10 million social conservatives/evangelical Christians sitting home on Election Day. They refused to vote for Romney, who they saw as both not conservative enough plus his being a member of the LDS. That was one of the reasons Obama got his 2nd term. Meanwhile, you had a substantial number of the far left who sat at home because they felt Sanders got screwed and wouldn't vote for HRC. 

David Duke's comments pretty much said the same thing. He is saying that if Trump doesn't shape up, his ilk will sit out the next election basically. 




CamillePunk said:


> He'll get attacked by the media regardless. "It wasn't sincere enough" or "it wasn't early enough" or "yeah but what about back when he said this...". It's never enough with the MSM and the left. I don't blame Trump for not wanting to play their games.
> 
> Fact is Antifa were at the protests armed with a bunch of weapons and were involved in the violence as well, but people only want to talk about one side of it. It's bullshit. What we have are two fringe ideologies on the political extremes, neither of which represent the base of either political party or even really a significant amount of people in the grand scheme of things. Yet people want to lump the entire left in with Antifa, or lump the entire right in with the white nationalists. Both of these thought processes are cancer. I'd rather Trump stay out of it rather than only condemn one side of the equation. He originally said both sides, which I thought was fair. Of course, that wasn't enough for the media. He has to specifically criticize only the white nationalists or it has to be implied he's some bigot even though there's no evidence of that.


What I would have been OK with was for Trump to just blast everyone involved and just ruthlessly cut both extremes down. First, rip the white supremacists, then when he was done tear the Antifa folks a new one. Now THAT would have been impressive. 

Unfortunately, as it stands...in the attempt at gently walking the tightrope between both sides...all he did was convince most people that it wasn't a genuine effort to condemn the neo-Nazis. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/us/politics/trump-charlottesville-protest.html

At the same time, while Richard Spencer stated that he doesn't take the comments seriously...

https://www.dailystormer.com/richard-spencers-press-conference-on-charlottesville-live/

...Other white supremacists seriously think Trump sold them out (even though he never really was one of them)

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1188607


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## Stormbringer (May 3, 2008)

So after watching today's DeFranco show, this whole situation was brought to my attention. What the fuck?!

So like a lot of problems this starts with a group of people who disagree with a decision on something that's a non-issue. A statue of a historical figure, one that was on the bad side of things, was to be removed. Fine. It wasn't a part of a museum like the Confederate Flag from earlier this year, so why the fuss?

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/anyth...oval-all-confederate-flags-paraphernalia.html

Robert E. Lee was on the bad side of the war, why do we need to honor him? With the Confederate Flag situation, it was a historical item in a museum setting, all's fine there. But this was just a regular old statue of a bad guy right? Just random Robert E. Lee. I hate to hyperbolize, but it's a statue of Hitler, why can't we take it down?

But then a group of white men with fire in hand gathered and started hate chants around the statue. Then people started getting hurt. Is that part accurate?

I understand that a lot of people are at fault here, but why does it seem like no one could just say it was 1 groups fault? Instead of just saying that the gathering of Klansmen and "White Nationalists" caused a disturbance, everyone seemed to want to cast a net with.

"....but other group are evil too."

Even the president refused to say that the Klansmen and "White Nationalists" were the cause of this horrible thing. What the hell is going on?

Also, what's the difference between Klansmen and White Nationalists?


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## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

KingCosmos said:


> What do you mean them? You catogorize them as BLM who beat up the kid. I love how you seem to want to label them BLM so you can feel better about white supremacy
> 
> If you were in Charolette like you say you were then you know it's just people from the neighboorhod and surrounding areas that came out to speak out about a cop killing someone. Not to preach white hate like you are trying to so desperately prove. There were people of every race there pissed about police activity.
> You want to try to deflect the issues of white supremacy and say look at BLM to minimize it.
> ...


Never said BLM was the same but acting like BLM is this great organization isn't correct. We do not know 100% if the people involved in the beatings, riots, vandalism, and high way shut down were BLM.Both are organizations I want no part of.


----------



## Stormbringer (May 3, 2008)

Another question I have, why is BLM being brought up? They didn't have anything to do with this.


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

DX-Superkick said:


> Also, what's the difference between Klansmen and White Nationalists?


White Nationalist is just another branch of White Supremacists. They just have different views on how to achieve supremacy. 

White Supremacist: Built on hate for minorities and white dominance. Some may seem like normal people while others are violent in nature and hostile in public settings toward minorities. Likely to be in biker gangs, regular white supremacist gangs or even the police force. They are often uneducated and fueled by ignorance, intolerance and hate. 

White Nationalist: Often associated with the Alt-Right movement. White Nationalist and Alt-Righters tend to justify white supremacy in an intellectual manner. They are often smart and educated, and have the ability to influence other white people to join their fight through their intellectualism. By doing this, they are able to separate themselves from their more aggressive, hateful and violent white supremacist cousins who have a bad image (which makes it harder for recruitment), and turn their white nationalist movement into a "respectable" movement that white people can join more comfortably. The hate is still there, however instead of being fueled primarily by hate, they are fueled by political, social and economic policy that rejects multiculturalism, favors white people and "preserve" white culture at the intentional expense of minorities.


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## Stormbringer (May 3, 2008)

Headliner said:


> *Sad state of affairs*


So how many planets do we need to separate all the groups that hate each other so we can finally have peace?

*serious question^


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

AmWolves10 said:


> No, the problem is the increased regulation of the job market and the need for increasing amounts of certification and licensing leading to millennials and even older people graduating college and in most cases graduate school with crippling amounts of debt. And that's with the increased cost of rent in cities where their degrees could actually get them a job with a stagnating median income despite all of this. Free enterprise is collapsing. And you people are hung up on "racism". Really focusing on the lowest rung of the totem pole of societal problems. Good job.


Again, how you're trying to be all gung-ho about economics on a wider scale when people are literally goose-stepping down the streets is almost hilariously baffling. Maybe don't question the structural integrity of your building's foundation when the thing is going up in flames.

For anybody still questioning the severity of all of this, or insisting that we need to hear "both sides" of the "argument" on this, once again, I cannot emphasise enough just how dangerous this all is. People are proudly brandishing the iconography of a regime that nearly brought Europe and the world to its knees.


BORT said:


> Sensationalism is a very real thing that people seem to also be forgetting about. After what happened with those White Nationalist scumbags, the media would make you think white racists are running over people left and right on a daily. All the media has to do is brodcast something over and over again to make it seem like a bigger issue and all of a sudden it then becomes worse than cancer. Say something enough and people will believe it.
> *
> That being said I do believe there's a problem in society socially that needs to be adressed. However it's WAY WAAAY more complicated than "racism".*


Please say, what is it?

PS: The people insisting it's "fair" that Trump attacked "both sides" were happy enough to watch him go on and on about Belgium's Islamist terror attacks, then keep deathly silent when the terror attacks at a mosque in Montreal happened that same week.

He's not out for fairness, he's out to prop up white supremacy.


----------



## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

DX-Superkick said:


> So after watching today's DeFranco show, this whole situation was brought to my attention. What the fuck?!
> 
> So like a lot of problems this starts with a group of people who disagree with a decision on something that's a non-issue. A statue of a historical figure, one that was on the bad side of things, was to be removed. Fine. It wasn't a part of a museum like the Confederate Flag from earlier this year, so why the fuss?
> 
> ...


To me, the problem with whitewashing history is that we need to see everything, warts and all. American history does have a lot of bad parts to it (Trail of Tears, Wounded Knee massacre, slavery, the KKK, the Civil War). We also see a great deal of revisionism in our history...some now want to portray Truman as a war criminal for his decision to use the atomic bomb on Japan (even though it saved the lives of hundreds of thousands of American soldiers and Japanese soldiers/civilians). The reasons for the Civil War is another example. For some, they believe it's about states' rights. For others, it was about the abolition of slavery. 

Ultimately, I think it's a mistake to completely whitewash history. We need to see the good and the bad, and to hopefully not forget the mistakes of the past. I saw that when I vacationed in Germany a few years ago...the sites of the history of Nazi Germany can't be seen unless someone points them out. I believe that they can be pointed out and shown not to glamorize what happened, but to stand as a reminder of what happens when evil fully takes hold. 

Good or bad...the Confederate flag, Robert E. Lee, etc...are parts of American history and it would be wrong to completely remove them.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Headliner said:


> White Nationalist is just another branch of White Supremacists. They just have different views on how to achieve supremacy.
> 
> White Supremacist: Built on hate for minorities and white dominance. Some may seem like normal people while others are violent in nature and hostile in public settings toward minorities. Likely to be in biker gangs, regular white supremacist gangs or even the police force. They are often uneducated and fueled by ignorance, intolerance and hate.
> 
> White Nationalist: Often associated with the Alt-Right movement. White Nationalist and Alt-Righters tend to justify white supremacy in an intellectual manner. They are often smart and educated, and have the ability to influence other white people to join their fight through their intellectualism. By doing this, they are able to separate themselves from their more aggressive, hateful and violent white supremacist cousins who have a bad image (which makes it harder for recruitment), and turn their white nationalist movement into a "respectable" movement that white people can join more comfortably. The hate is still there, however instead of being fueled primarily by hate, they are fueled by political, social and economic policy that rejects multiculturalism, favors white people and "preserve" white culture at the intentional expense of minorities.


You can reject multiculturalism without having hatred toward any minority or wanting them to be at a disadvantage.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

KingCosmos said:


> What do you mean them? You catogorize them as BLM who beat up the kid. I love how you seem to want to label them BLM so you can feel better about white supremacy
> 
> If you were in Charolette like you say you were then you know it's just people from the neighboorhod and surrounding areas that came out to speak out about a cop killing someone. Not to preach white hate like you are trying to so desperately prove. There were people of every race there pissed about police activity.
> You want to try to deflect the issues of white supremacy and say look at BLM to minimize it.
> ...


Why arent they? Are you saying no sect of BLM has ever shown pro-black racism toward whites? Cause I can tell you some stories.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Beatles123 said:


> You can reject multiculturalism without having hatred toward any minority or wanting them to be at a disadvantage.


What does that have to do with my post?


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Headliner said:


> What does that have to do with my post?


You seem to imply that one of the examples of hatred in White Supremacy is the non-advocacy of multiculturalism. This in itself is not a hateful concept. One's reason's for endorsing it can be based in hatred, but quite often those who don't want multiculturalism (Like me, in the sense that I want it scaled back) aren't simply anti-foreigner.


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## Stormbringer (May 3, 2008)

BruiserKC said:


> To me, the problem with whitewashing history is that we need to see everything, warts and all. American history does have a lot of bad parts to it (Trail of Tears, Wounded Knee massacre, slavery, the KKK, the Civil War).
> 
> Ultimately, I think it's a mistake to completely whitewash history.
> 
> Good or bad...the Confederate flag, Robert E. Lee, etc...are parts of American history and it would be wrong to completely remove them.


I understand and I agree. I really do. My question really comes back to why do we need a random Robert statue? If I went to a Civil War museum or a Civil Rights museum, I don't want or need anything censored. There will be items and memorabilia from all sides, which is how it should be. But just a random Robert E. Lee statue seems unnecessary to me.

If I were put in the position, I'd sign to keep the Civil War museum open, along with all the memorabilia that goes with it, I would. But I just can't wrap my head around an unnecessary statue.

:draper2


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## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

DX-Superkick said:


> Another question I have, why is BLM being brought up? They didn't have anything to do with this.


Don't you know? BLM called white people racist, so at the full moon when everyone slept, they howled and turned into werenazis.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

The part of history excuse is such B.S. You don't see Nazi symbols in Germany so they can support history. Having a statue of a traitor to the US because they wanted "state rights" (AKA we want to be free to own humans without you interfering) is ridiculous.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

samizayn said:


> Don't you know? BLM called white people racist, so at the full moon when everyone slept, they howled and turned into werenazis.


Or maybe because ANTIFA has involved themselves and are very similar.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

KingCosmos said:


> The part of history excuse is such B.S. You don't see Nazi symbols in Germany so they can support history. Having a statue of a traitor to the US because they wanted "state rights" (AKA we want to be free to own humans without you interfering) is ridiculous.


You think that's how we southerners view Lee? "YEEEEEEAH OUR FAV BROWN PERSON KILLER! :woo"?


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## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

DX-Superkick said:


> Another question I have, why is BLM being brought up? They didn't have anything to do with this.


To show peoples blatant hypocrisy. BLM has caused several riots and even advocating for assault on white people and vandalism in white neighborhoods. They didn't give a damn about a black female officer getting shot in killed in her cruiser (black lives matter no?). Hell, their main inspiration is a cop killer who is on the FBI's most wanted list who fled to Cuba after escaping prison. That's someone they look up to and Obama openly embraced them and brought them to the white house. There's some real blatant anti-white racism they show but they get rewarded for it.

But criticizing them means you're a racist...apparently


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Beatles123 said:


> You seem to imply that one of the examples of hatred in White Supremacy is the non-advocacy of multiculturalism. This in itself is not a hateful concept. One's reason's for endorsing it can be based in hatred, but quite often those who don't want multiculturalism (Like me, in the sense that I want it scaled back) aren't simply anti-foreigner.


In the White Nationalist eyes, yes it is a hateful concept. 

Quotes from that ****** Richard Spencer.



> “How can we build a White society, one that reflects the values and traditions of our people?” In the context of a world informed by multiculturalism, ‘anti-discrimination’ legislation, and White guilt, such a task is daunting to say the least… Though there are certainly obstacles in our path, European-American communities can be organized in ways that are legal, moral, and, most important, effective.” — description of video that has now been deleted, April 2013





> “This country does belong to white people, culturally, politically, socially, everything. We defined what America is." — speech at Texas A&M, December 2016


From his site:


> “Instead of asking how we can make reparations for slavery, colonialism, and Apartheid or how we can equalize academic scores and incomes,” Colin Liddell wrote, “we should instead be asking questions like, ‘Does human civilization actually need the Black race?’ ‘Is Black genocide right?’ and, if it is, ‘What would be the best and easiest way to dispose of them?’


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

roud THERE GOES ANOTHER CONFEDERATE MONUMENT IN DURAM, YALL!!!

THE.

SOUTH.

SUCKS.

ALL SOUTHERNERS ARE STUPID, BACKWARDS AND SHOULD NEVER BE PROUD OF ANYTHING.

Am I with the times yet :flair


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Beatles123 said:


> roud THERE GOES ANOTHER CONFEDERATE MONUMENT IN DURAM, YALL!!!
> 
> THE.
> 
> ...


Why are you proud of the confederacy?


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Headliner said:


> In the White Nationalist eyes, yes it is a hateful concept.
> 
> Quotes from that ****** Richard Spencer.
> 
> ...


This may come as a shock to you home boy, but most of us shat on spencer from the getgo and yes, can still say we want less multiculturalism.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

KingCosmos said:


> Why are you proud of the confederacy?


WEEEEEHEHELL That would certainly drive us into fith gear. Time to brew a good ol' shitstorm:

Because I don't subscribe to the idea that the war was entirely, solely about slavery and for some states like Tenessee,it was more about the union being total dickwads to them on other matters. 

We should have lost the war because we were wrong on slavory and it didn't deserve to win, but I don't think the idea that the Confederacy was just this collection of people that were evil minded is true either. A lot of the people fighting in the war were just average people not wanting the union to tell them what to do, slavery or otherwise.

Im not saying we were correct. I'm saying we weren't (and aren't) what the modern belief says we are and shouldn't be just outright shat on. The flag doesn't mean we like slavery down here anymore. (In arge part. Not gonna pretend we don't have work to do)

The only thing im saying is there's another side to us that people don't see because they already see the side that fits the more popular characterization.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Beatles123 said:


> This may come as a shock to you home boy, but most of us shat on spencer from the getgo and yes, can still say we want less multiculturalism.


Read my post again.


> In the White Nationalist eyes, yes it is a hateful concept.


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## Stormbringer (May 3, 2008)

Stinger Fan said:


> To show peoples blatant hypocrisy. BLM has caused several riots and even advocating for assault on white people and vandalism in white neighborhoods. They didn't give a damn about a black female officer getting shot in killed in her cruiser (black lives matter no?). Hell, their main inspiration is a cop killer who is on the FBI's most wanted list who fled to Cuba after escaping prison. That's someone they look up to and Obama openly embraced them and brought them to the white house. There's some real blatant anti-white racism they show but they get rewarded for it.
> 
> But criticizing them means you're a racist...apparently


This is the part that so many people miss. Intentionally or not is the question.

BLM was created, not from hatred, but to ask the questions, "was it a righteous kill?" "why did an unarmed teen get killed?" "why was the officer not fired or charged?" that's where BLM came from. It was not created with the sole purpose of, "COP KILLIN' TIME Y'ALL!" "Bring ya bats, let's break shit!"

Now yes, it's been corrupted by idiots who do stupid things, but the mission statement was never anything dubious. Contrast that to the Klan or White Nationalists.....

And again, BLM had nothing to do with this. To mention them here is spiteful to say the least. And dismissive of those truly responsible in a worst case.


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## Stormbringer (May 3, 2008)

Beatles123 said:


> The only thing im saying is there's another side to us that people don't see because they already see the side that fits the more popular characterization.


Why don't the "good ones" work harder to distance AND distinguish themselves from the bad ones? Wouldn't things be better if you didn't have the same flag so to speak?


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## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

DX-Superkick said:


> This is the part that so many people miss. Intentionally or not is the question.
> 
> BLM was created, not from hatred, but to ask the questions, "was it a righteous kill?" "why did an unarmed teen get killed?" "why was the officer not fired or charged?" that's where BLM came from. It was not created with the sole purpose of, "COP KILLIN' TIME Y'ALL!" "Bring ya bats, let's break shit!"
> 
> ...


When you create a group and your main inspiration is a noted, convicted cop killer on the FBI's most wanted list, you simply do not care about having peace with police. Sorry, but I don't see how anyone can even begin to defend that. They admire a cop killer. I honestly don't believe people are in favor of police brutality , but they're very quiet on many topics such as black on black violence or when a black officer is killed. Simply put, they don't even support what their name suggest . People need to stop giving them free passes


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Headliner said:


> Read my post again.


And read mine again. My post was not to defend white nationalisom or whatever you clasify the people who did these things. Im saying, you gave an example of something hateful they believed in. Im saying that simply not being Multicultural is not hateful. Most of the modern right that I identify with don't agree with spencer. 

Now of course, as I said, i might be "White Nationalist" by the standards of a lot of leftists. I dunno, but *I* dont think I am :shrug


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## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

Beatles123 said:


> WEEEEEHEHELL That would certainly drive us into fith gear. Time to brew a good ol' shitstorm:
> 
> Because I don't subscribe to the idea that the war was entirely, solely about slavery and for some states like Tenessee,it was more about the union being total dickwads to them on other matters.
> 
> ...


This is correct. The slavery part of the confederacy was definitely wrong, but other than that the South had legitimate arguments for wanting to secede. And the main reason for the war was not because the union wanted to free the slaves.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Beatles123 said:


> WEEEEEHEHELL That would certainly drive us into fith gear. Time to brew a good ol' shitstorm:
> 
> Because I don't subscribe to the idea that the war was entirely, solely about slavery and for some states like Tenessee,it was more about the union being total dickwads to them on other matters.
> 
> ...


What i don't get is where is the "we" coming from. The confederates are traitors there is nothing to be proud of them for. I asked why are you proud of them and you never said. What about the Confederates betraying the US for "states rights" makes you proud of treacherous treasonous snakes. Sure not every person that fought in the war was evil even tho they likely supports slavery which makes them evil anyway but that's besides the point. The whole it wasn't over slavery narrative still isn't correct by the way definitely part of it. And even if it wasn't these are deplorable human beings who wanted to keep slaves so even if it wasn't because of slavery they are still scum


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

KingCosmos said:


> What i don't get is where is the "we" coming from. The confederates are traitors there is nothing to be proud of them for. I asked why are you proud of them and you never said. What about the Confederates betraying the US for "states rights" makes you proud of treacherous treasonous snakes. Sure not every person that fought in the war was evil even tho they likely supports slavery which makes them evil anyway but that's besides the point. The whole it wasn't over slavery narrative still isn't correct by the way definitely part of it. And even if it wasn't these are deplorable human beings who wanted to keep slaves so even if it wasn't because of slavery they are still scum


Because the union, as I said, was also imposing a lot of sanctions and unfair strain on the south trying to strong arm it INTO giving up slavery. Now, is slavery right? No, but the Union were forcing the south to adapt unfairly. It had no economic system to replace it with. It couldn't just get rid of it without due planning. Still, the Union saw fit to continue to escalate things. In fact, this taxation was a part of the reason why Lincoln ordered Fort Sumter attacked, stating to congress "My intention is to collect a tax" from them. Those who were manning the fort said they would not surrender without a direct letter from Lincoln, which they never received before being fired upon.

Based upon these things, I cannot call them "Traitors" when it was the union who forced their own hand.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Beatles123 said:


> Becauae the union, as I said, was also imposing a lot of sanctions and unfair strain on the south trying to strong arm it INTO giving up slavery. Now, is slavery right? No, but the Union were forcing the south to adapt unfairly. It had no economic system to replace it with. It couldn't just get ris of it without due planning but the union wouldn't listen. In fact, these taxations were a part of the reason why Lincoln ordered Fort Sumter attacked, stating to congress "My intention is to collect a tax" from them. Those who were manning the fort said they would not surrender without a direct letter from Lincoln, which they never received before being fired upon.
> 
> Based upon these things, I cannot call them "Traitors" when it was the union who forced their own hand.


Ok but why are you proud of them? I still don't get it. What about the confederates actions makes you proud of them/

Also sorry they were strong arming them in to not owning a HUMAN BEING. Screw planning . There is no "many sides" here. There is no way in you can justify them not stopping slavery because they needed more time. There is no moral debate here it's just plain wrong, how much time do you think should have been given? I'm sure if they had more time i wouldn't be sitting her typing this and having dialog with people on the internet right now


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

KingCosmos said:


> Ok but why are you proud of them? I still don't get it. What about the confederates actions makes you proud of them/
> 
> Also sorry they were strong arming them in to not owning a HUMAN BEING. Screw planning . There is no "many sides" here. There is no way in you can justify them not stopping slavery because they needed more time. There is no moral debate here it's just plain wrong, how much time do you think should have been given? I'm sure if they had more time i wouldn't be sitting her typing this and having dialog with people on the internet right now


Screw planning? Uhhhhh...I don't---I mean---Im not sure you understand the implications of them just up and freeing the slaves without a proper plan in place.

Why? Becauuse its so much more than the issue of slavery. We dodn't WANT to be told what to do by the union, even if you factor out slavery the union was trying to screw the south over. The flag represents the idea that the south are a free and proud people. Not that slavery is okay (Though as I said we still have those that use it in this context and thats shameful)


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Beatles123 said:


> Screw planning? Uhhhhh...I don't---I mean---Im not sure you understand the implications of them just up and freeing the slaves without a proper plan in place.
> 
> Why? Becauuse its so much more than the issue of slavery. We dodn't WANT to be told what to do by the union, even if you factor out slavery the union was trying to screw the south over. The flag represents the idea that the south are a free and proud people. Not that slavery is okay (Though as I said we still have those that use it in this context and thats shameful)


Dude the thing i don't get is WE? You are a AMERICAN the south is apart of America and America is "Free" (air quotes on the free) there is no need for the confederacy to emphasis that or it's rebellious flag


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## The_It_Factor (Aug 14, 2012)

Well, the alt-right is retarded, but we shouldn't try to limit their freedom of speech or advocate violence against them. Not because what they're saying is right or good, but because when we start limiting speech, eventually they'll come after the sort of speech that we DO support.


As far as violence.... Had they been left alone to look like the bunch of queers with tiki torches that they were/are, there wouldn't be anyone dead right now.


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

This thread has taught me I need to kind of apologise to @CamillePunk @Reaper @L-DOPA @Beatles123 among others whose names I don't remember, since I regularly called them out for circle-jerking and biased arguments, but compared with what's going on in this thread, that shit was light.

The left-wingers in this thread feel like they need to continually tie hate groups to right-wing beliefs and right-wingers themselves, despite everyone who identifies as a right-winger saying they don't want anything to do with these or any hate groups.
The righties came to this thread and defended themselves, with fair arguments, blatantly disavowing the things the lefties are accusing them of accepting and advocating for.
All the while the lefties are too afraid to enter any right-wing dominated thread here and disavow the shit caused by Antifa, BLM, etc "protests" and regularly turn a blind eye to that extremism in every other sense.

You can hear, see and even smell the dissonance.
"Not all right-wingers..." the right would say, in response to being painted as supremacists by the left. "You still support them and their racist rhetoric by voting Trump in!" the left respond, and the right argue back...
"That's not what BLM stands for..." the left would say, as the right criticise the so-called moderates for platforming hate speech and the spreading of ideological lies. "Why do you not challenge the lies, falsities and hate?" the right ask, often to no response.

As amazing as it is, even to me, the right as a whole is a hell of a lot more reasonable than the left. It's no surprise why. Extreme left- ideology is paraded and supported by moderates whereas extreme right- ideology is, as mentioned, disavowed by moderates.


If anyone who hates Trump is actually delusional enough to believe that a moderately right-wing President with 'questionable' morals is the person who is actually in charge, ask yourselves why even he caved in to pressure to speak against, specifically, the extremist right, in a situation that became violent because the addition of counterprotesters in Antifa who have an incredibly well documented history of violence across the west?


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Beatles123 said:


> Screw planning? Uhhhhh...I don't---I mean---Im not sure you understand the implications of them just up and freeing the slaves without a proper plan in place.


The South was fighting mainly to retain the institution of Slavery. 

The North however was not fighting just to emancipate the slaves or even mainly to free the slaves. The fact that the North wasn't fighting to free the slaves as its primary objective is exactly why it took another 110 odd years for blacks to finally start integrating and barely. 

If the North really gave a fuck about the blacks, they would have had an integration plan for the entire nation or at the very least in Northern cities --- which they didn't. Thousands of blacks died trying to make a life up north where too they were met with significant roadblocks. They came with the belief that there would be opportunity for them, but that opportunity did not exist. Much of the North refused to hire and integrate blacks after the war just as the south did. 

The North won the war to preserve the union and freed the blacks as it promised - mainly in name only - but practically told the blacks to fuck off and find their own way or die trying. 

This is why Northern inner cities still have HUGE ghettos and massive amounts of black poverty. They NEVER cared about the blacks. The blacks thought that they did so they flocked to the northern cities only to find themselves trapped in a century and a half of poverty, death and depravity. The North is full of racist fucks. They just pretend that they're not. They STILL pretend that they're not which is why blacks still fall for their pandering ways and vote democrat with absolutely no regard for just how much the democrats continue to fuck them over .. over and over and over again for centuries. 

Convincing the blacks that the North was fighting to save them and free them is one of the greatest illusions of America. We have to remember that supposed integration of blacks began somewhere in the north around the late 1700's. The war happened in the mid-1800's ... and yet in 2017 (more than 200 years later) HUGE populations of African Americans are still in massive poverty-stricken ghettos up north because they were so god-damned accepting of black people that they fought this great war and made no fucking gains to fully integrate them into society without these ghettos? 

This is an extremely vital characteristic of the war that almost no one considers.


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## TheNightmanCometh (Feb 1, 2017)

skypod said:


> I do agree that there's a pocket of poor white people that aren't represented by politics or the media, whether that be the entertainment industry or the news. This seems to have come from both sides. America seems to pride itself on this middle class family, 2.4 children in a nice home with attached garage, 1/2 cars and all children in college. This is whats been represented for decades as the ultimate American dream. *It feels like this is why people found gay marriage so threatening to that as well. *
> *
> It's no surprise that a) Black people feel isolated from this as if they don't belong to the American conservative fantasy and b) poor whites feel it doesn't represent them either.* Genuinely think a lot of minorities believe white people generally live like people in Bel Air do. There's still plenty whites strung out on meth in shitty apartments in inner cities. It's not as seperate as identity politics leads people to believe.
> 
> *However it doesn't feel like lot of the alt right trolls actually belong to that latter group so it comes across as spitting the dummy out because of representation (when in reality Whites are still presented majorly everywhere)*.


Whether people want to admit it or not, people out there opposed to gay marriage aren't opposed to it because it doesn't fit the American ideal, as you laid out. People out there are opposed to it because it fundamentally runs counter to their religion. Right or wrong, that is the truth. Now, at the end of the day, are there hypocrites in those faiths? Certainly, but I don't believe a broad brush should be used to paint anti-gay either. I'm not anti-gay, in the slightest, but I'm not anti-religion either, so I understand where they're coming from, as long as they say they disagree and don't show their disagreement through physical violence.

In other words, it doesn't represent a lot of people. While more blacks are in poverty, per percentage, there are more white people in poverty, per sheer number. If any group of people thinks another group of people live in Bel Air then they're ignorant. That would be like thinking all black people generally live in poverty, they don't. 

I tend not to care much about trolls on either side. Take what happened recently, for instance. What happened was a tragedy, no doubt, but we can't lay all the blame on neo-nazi, this or that. The blame lies squarely on the fringes both sides getting publication in newspapers, magazines, and in the media. These groups, on the right and the left, are the worst representation of each group. ANTIFA does this, or that, neo-nazis do this, or that, BLM does this, or that. It's been lifted up as this great thing, and it really isn't. By percentages, they make up a tiny fraction of the public, but we're made to believe that these are big movements. They aren't, they just yell the loudest.

And, IMO, the worst out of all of this, is the left using this tragedy as a way of throwing shade at Trump. A person died, for Christ's sake, and we're gonna yell and scream because he didn't say certain words? Get your fucking priorities straight. A person died, period. This isn't Trump's fault.

Neo-nazism, whatever it is today, is a counter revolt of identity politics. Where were the neo-nazis before 2008? Where were the fights, the deaths, the mayhem? Where was it? It was isolated and rare. Now we hear about something on a monthly basis. We seriously can't be so thick as to not notice this.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

KingCosmos said:


> Dude the thing i don't get is WE? You are a AMERICAN the south is apart of America and America is "Free" (air quotes on the free) there is no need for the confederacy to emphasis that or it's rebellious flag


I AM american, but i say "We" because i am a southerner. Being from the south us not some horrible thing to me, and the flag means more to me than a mere hate symbol. Most southerners are peaceful if not old fashioned religiously. The people in my area would never dream of violence against blacks. Assholes in general may piss us off, but people around here are generally easygoing folk who are just proud of our culture as local farmers and hard workers. People here work with their bare hands a lot of the time. Its all a lot of us in this part of the Carolinas have ever known. The Confederate Flag is a symbol of that culture. Race doesn't factor into it for "us" as in, people like me. Yes, it's not the official flag of the south but people look upon it as such.

It's the same thing as if I hung up a flag that said I were a wrestling fan. Its just something that celebrates a part of who people around here are. 

WITH THAT IN MIND are there some ass backwards southerners around the south? Oh hell yeah. Those people shouldn't get to ruin it for the rest of us though, and yes, they are a problem. The people that did these riots? Yeah, I don't agree with em. I don't think they are indicative of the average among us in the south tho.

However, they do represent a portion of us that do exist and should be called out. Its just unfortunate they get the spotlight because now i gotta explain to people this isn't what I want.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

DX-Superkick said:


> Why don't the "good ones" work harder to distance AND distinguish themselves from the bad ones? Wouldn't things be better if you didn't have the same flag so to speak?


Well you also have to realize, to some the negative associations with the south will always be there no matter how much we "Evolve". People are always gonna see us as hicks, im afraid. I think we've actually made progress but we'll always be a little different from other places. We're always going to have a right wing lean in much the same way as Cali is an SJW hive. If we can just learn we have different lifestyles to contend with on our side and not perpetuate stereotypes like in charlotsville and live n let live, and ya can let us do us to that extent, we good.

The flag is like any flag. It's always goin' to have crazy peoplr. Better to have it warts and all and strive to make it better. Totally silence them and you have....well, this mess.


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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

This is what identity politics looks like when it's no longer memes on the internet and one-sided protests. Pretty ugly stuff.


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## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

There's a few important articles to share on this particular incident:

http://www.theblaze.com/contributio...62316-news&utm_campaign=dailywire-reciprocity



> *Matt Walsh: Dear alt-right white supremacists and leftist Antifa thugs, you deserve each other*
> 
> I have already made known my feelings about the white supremacists who gathered in Charlottesville.
> 
> ...


The parts I've bolded are some of the most accurate statements surrounding this whole ordeal. Great article.


http://www.dailywire.com/news/19708..._content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro#



> *Charlottesville Police Chief: There Were 'Mutually Combating Individuals In The Crowd'*
> 
> 
> On Monday, Charlottesville Police Chief Al Thomas held a press conference at which he addressed the incidents that occurred over the weekend during the alt-right protest.
> ...


Of course, anyone who has not only looked into what happened at Charlottesville but has seen what identity politics played by both the left and right has caused since Trump's election and even before already knew this. Keep in mind, this article comes from the *Daily Wire*, which is *Ben Shapiro's* outlet. There is no one who has more of a reason to hate the alt right than him since he's been the subject of some absolutely despicable Anti-Semitic abuse by their ranks. So if he can look into what is really happening, so can everyone else.

Last important article, something which has already been mentioned by various outlets: http://www.dailywire.com/news/19707...m_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro



> *ACLU: Saturday Policing Was 'Not Effective In Preventing Violence'*
> 
> On Monday, Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D-VA) blamed the ACLU for violence — which included three deaths and over 30 injuries — at Saturday's political demonstrations in Charlottesville.
> 
> ...


There were multiple failings by the police in Charlottesville, particularly in keeping the two groups seperate and apart. This was reported by many independent journalists on the ground, who noticed a lack of police presence when the violence took place. This seems to be a common theme happening among these types of events. All of this could have really been prevented.

And blaming the ACLU for this is utterly retarded, as much as I despise the white identitarian groups, they have as much right as anyone else to peaceful assembly. Free speech is only free speech when it is applied universally, it becomes moot when you exclude certain groups because you find their views to be vulgar.

I do wish in future cases like these, the city councils and police involved take notes and learn from what transpired a couple of days ago. But I don't have much faith in that happening.


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Several people have asked why have monuments to the losing side? 










The first memorial to General Robert E. Lee was erected, as were many subsequent ones, so as to heal the wounds of the American republic at large, with Union men supporting it, while most mainstream Southern schools taught for generations that Abraham Lincoln was a wise and principled leader even if the federal government and Southern states governments, and finally, Confederate States of America as it was briefly known, came into irrevocable disagreement with one another. This was known chiefly as a way to establish a sort of cross-cultural detente between Yankee and Rebel, Northerner and Southerner. 

Of course each side has its deeply troubling qualities. Thousands of Union soldiers made a sport of raping women, Southern white women and black slave women alike, and there were groups of Confederates who never ceased fighting. However, as far as these sorts of wars traditionally go, it had a reasonably neat conclusion following the deaths of over half a million men between the two sides and vast economic destruction. The South as once-unit, then back into the fold as respective states in the Union, had the choice collectively, and for the overwhelming most part Southerners followed Lee's surrender to General Ulysses Grant at Appomattox. Unlike the Spanish who utilized guerilla warfare tactics of the grittiest sort to expel the Napoleonic forces five decades earlier. The Confederate States of America, for all of the flaws and foibles apparent in same, had its forces fight on battlefields, organized and largely uniformed, time and time again, while being outnumbered nearly four-to-one. The CSA's early victories and consequential amassing of political capital quite nearly saw the Confederate States of America recognized by both Great Britain and France. Thousands of Union soldiers granted that the defeat-with-honor exemplified by almost all Confederates demanded that they be honored as brothers who had feuded with their Northern fellows but refused to protract the war as many easily could have to bleed the U.S. republic in gratuitous fashion. The main point is that the statues and memorials were considered a way by which to establish that the wounds of war were healing. Reading Theodore Roosevelt's writings, it becomes plain how critical this was in shaping attitudes among Southerners and Northerners when Uncle Sam came calling for the cause of the Spanish-American War. 

And, again, T.R. was instrumental in spearheading the charge for a war that was ultimately imperialistic in nature. Yet his bravery was considerable and T.R. was regarded an American hero.

It compels one to recall how, in Rome, there were three different statues of Hannibal Barca. Engraved upon the foundation of one in read, "_The only enemy ever to have thrown a spear inside the city's walls._" Pliny the Elder was outraged by these. 

Why Southern folks would still hold to their heroes makes sense (though the risk one runs when going too far with this nonsense is the subsequent fetishizing of such monuments, which takes something that is normal and decent, recognized from the time of the Romans and Thomas Babington Macaulay's _Lays of Ancient Rome_, and reduces it to campy spectacle). Moreover, as the neoliberal order in which all of us have been born continues to be redefined, the degree to which man is further and further alienated will only continue to wax. As an aside, none of this excuses a foolish neo-nazi attacking a black man or running a car over a protesting woman or anything, but I have made this same point with regard to radicalized Muslims in Western Europe as well. As with the young man from Algeria, disaffected by and severed from his traditions by the cultural _status quo_ of Manchester, the Alabaman young man today is probably as desperate to cling to some sort of identitarian "therapy" in Montgomery. It is as Aristotle instructs: man is, for all of his faults and his aspirations, a social animal. With a sterile existence supported by what James Burnham would have called the chief arms of the present managerial state, all too many young white men are presently finding themselves almost vomiting up the purported medicinal treatments they have been administered. The ephemeral qualities that bind other groups of people to their own make an ever greater number ask, "If it's so good for other groups to be proud of their heritage, why is it so awful for whites?" A fair question as far as it goes. That atomistic individualism wedded to the disparate streams of reactive travails of the ongoing revolutionary spirit stemming from Jacobin France leaves so many troubled souls seeking something, whether it is race or religion, as ballast. 

What many young people find themselves animated by is the perpetual revolution, however, against that which once stood. The American government tends to defend its many wars as struggles to liberate the oppressed, as venues in which to effectively militarize Robbespierre's deepest concerns. Consequently, witnessing spectacles straight out of the playbooks of Jacobins or Bolsheviks play out before us should come to no surprise. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/897235297485901825
This story probably has no happy ending. 

One begins to genuinely appreciate the arguments in favor of monarchy by Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn, distilled as they were from the likes of Fitzjames Stephen and Sir Henry Sumner Maineas, as one observes the same ramifications he did in weighing "collective judgment of moral acts."


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Destroying monuments you don't like is just the lowest of the low. When ISIS does it, it's terrorism, when far-left does it, yay, freedom! That's despicable.


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Great posts DROW and L-DOPA!

As I explained in the beginning of this thread that there is no difference between the people in whites masks nor the people in black masks. They're the same and they deserve each other.

The KKK, White Supremacists, Antifa and White Guilters are pretty much identical with their messages and methods.

One blames non-whites for the majority of problems and calls whites who disagree race traitors, the other blames whites for all problems and calls any non-whites who disagree race traitors.

The biggest difference between the groups is that White Supremacists admit they're racist, the White Guilters and Antifa deny they are yet their behavior says otherwise. Both groups have hate in their hearts, the Supremacists for others, the Guilters for themselves because hate against others isn't acceptable so they lash out at the only people you can hate - themselves.


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## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

Punkhead said:


> Destroying monuments you don't like is just the lowest of the low. When ISIS does it, it's terrorism, when far-left does it, yay, freedom! That's despicable.


I mean, its a bit far fetched to say its the lowest of the low, they could drive a car in to a crowd of people. :una

However it is scummy and they all look like a bunch of violent pricks doing it.


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## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

Punkhead said:


> Destroying monuments you don't like is just the lowest of the low. When ISIS does it, it's terrorism, when far-left does it, yay, freedom! That's despicable.


Interesting enough...Germany has no sites or monuments to the Nazi movement but there is in Berlin a monument the Soviets put up during the occupation of East Berlin. It was devoted to the fallen Russians from WW2. Still stands today. 

Whitewashing history is a horrible thing. We can use these as teaching moments rather than pretend they never happened. Like when the controversy of the Confederate flag led to the removal of The Dukes of Hazzard from TV. Yes, apparently getting rid of the General Lee will stop racism. 

As disgusting as it may be, haters and racists of all skin tones have the right to be heard. I want to know where the hate is coming from so I know if I want to deal with it or not.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

Give both sides guns, herd them into a enclosed area and just let them kill each and be done with it.


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## Paigeology (Feb 23, 2014)

Come to Australia guys, all our pollies are doing at the moment is trying to figure out who has dual nationality


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

BruiserKC said:


> Interesting enough...Germany has no sites or monuments to the Nazi movement but there is in Berlin a monument the Soviets put up during the occupation of East Berlin. It was devoted to the fallen Russians from WW2. Still stands today.
> 
> Whitewashing history is a horrible thing. We can use these as teaching moments rather than pretend they never happened. Like when the controversy of the Confederate flag led to the removal of The Dukes of Hazzard from TV. Yes, apparently getting rid of the General Lee will stop racism.
> 
> As disgusting as it may be, haters and racists of all skin tones have the right to be heard. I want to know where the hate is coming from so I know if I want to deal with it or not.


One could argue where does it stop?

You have people wanting to change names of high schools and remove portraits and busts of certain intellectuals or artists. 

It appears to be that somehow we can erase the past by taking down monuments rather than learning from the past.


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## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

Miss Sally said:


> One could argue where does it stop?
> 
> You have people wanting to change names of high schools and remove portraits and busts of certain intellectuals or artists.
> 
> It appears to be that somehow we can erase the past by taking down monuments rather than learning from the past.


"Gone With The Wind"...one of the greatest films of all-time and a classic novel. They want to do away with both because of the ties to the South. Wouldn't be long before the works of authors like Faulkner and Eudora Welty would be next. 

Turner did away a few years ago with the Speedy Gonzalez cartoons...claiming that he was a racist caricature of Mexicans (even though he was quite bad-ass and always outwitted the cat). Guess what...people threw a stink because there was now no longer any representation of Hispanics for these cartoons.


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

BlitzkriegMickie said:


> Come to Australia guys, all our pollies are doing at the moment is trying to figure out who has dual nationality


We are WORSE. :CENA


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

BruiserKC said:


> "Gone With The Wind"...one of the greatest films of all-time and a classic novel. They want to do away with both because of the ties to the South. Wouldn't be long before the works of authors like Faulkner and Eudora Welty would be next.
> 
> Turner did away a few years ago with the Speedy Gonzalez cartoons...claiming that he was a racist caricature of Mexicans (even though he was quite bad-ass and always outwitted the cat). Guess what...people threw a stink because there was now no longer any representation of Hispanics for these cartoons.


Lol. They can try to get rid of it all they want, but just like my mom made me watch this movie (and dozens of other movies about world history) so am I going to show it to my kids. Things like this and some of the lack of knowledge in this thread really makes me grateful for having a nerdy history buff for a mom. 

Erasure of history is not happening in my house.



BruiserKC said:


> Turner did away a few years ago with the Speedy Gonzalez cartoons...claiming that he was a racist caricature of Mexicans (even though he was quite bad-ass and always outwitted the cat). Guess what...people threw a stink because there was now no longer any representation of Hispanics for these cartoons.


It's because these adults are so FUCKING dumb themselves that they basically project their stupidity on their children. 

I grew up with Speedy Gonzalez (between the age of 5-9) and I never even realized that there was such a thing as race or nationality or anything like that depicted in it. It was just a mouse that fucked around with a cat. What kind of a mentally inept child would conflate a mouse and cat to humans? As kids we have clear distinctions about what is human and what is not. It seems that grownups become stupider as they age because they can no longer differentiate.

As a kid when I saw history movies, I had it crystal clear in my head that it had nothing to do with the present because the present is different now. When I saw white characters on screen, I didn't pine for an indian hero because frankly an indian dude with brown skin would look stupid as superman because superman isn't supposed to be indian. I knew that clearly in my head. I don't need an indian superman. Why would I need an indian superman? What's wrong with white superman? Why would I need to idolize superman and why would he have to be my race for me to idolize him? 

Wouldn't that make ME the racist? Kids see things with respect to good and evil because I think we're born with this concept as a survival instinct. Race differentiation is taught and learned. 

Parents project their retarded politics onto their kids because they are the ones that are not smart enough. Not the kids.










This image is one of the most iconic images in history because it teaches us the evils of indoctrination. ALL forms of indoctrination.

This brings me back to the necessity of retaining all forms of information and erasing nothing. The best way to indoctrinate people is to cherry pick information and restrict access to all points of view ... therefore all forms of censorship are innately wrong.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

DesolationRow said:


> Several people have asked why have monuments to the losing side?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That's all nice and cozy that you want to find a way to justify putting up a statue of deplorable sick human beings that wanted to keep humans enslaved , but we also know many Confederate statues were made during Jim Crow as a little reminder to the good ol *******. Fuck those monuments


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## KingofKings1524 (Aug 27, 2007)

Fucking people and their political parties. I keep hoping that one of these days that common sense and a basic sense of human decency will prevail. Not holding my breath.


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## skypod (Nov 13, 2014)

Miss Sally said:


> One could argue where does it stop?
> 
> You have people wanting to change names of high schools and remove portraits and busts of certain intellectuals or artists.
> 
> It appears to be that somehow we can erase the past by taking down monuments rather than learning from the past.



Not from the US so genuinely curious as to how it's presented to you, but how much is slavery and Jim Crow laws taught in schools, how many memorials and monuments to African Americans is there? 

There needs to be more monuments to Blacks that the sins were committed on rather that leaders of the South. I think a few statues celebrating Confederacy is fine as long as there's enough information out there showing how horrible things were. But one without the other paints a bleak picture about how America sees things and wouldn't mind going back to the "glory days". 

In Berlin there's Holocaust shit every 10 feet. Nazism is taken extremely seriously and still is to this day. In comparison America seems completely unbothered by it's history.


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

KingCosmos said:


> That's all nice and cozy that you want to find a way to justify putting up a statue of deplorable sick human beings that wanted to keep humans enslaved , but we also know many Confederate statues were made during Jim Crow as a little reminder to the good ol *******. Fuck those monuments


Who are you and why are you ignoring DesolationRow posts like it's just some common trash? Smh :no:


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## Genking48 (Feb 3, 2009)

KingCosmos said:


> Dude the thing i don't get is WE? You are a AMERICAN the south is apart of America and America is "Free" (air quotes on the free) there is no need for the confederacy to emphasis that or it's rebellious flag


What do you mean you don't get that. Now we're probably getting into social identity theory or some self-categorization theory stuff, bear with me. Even though someone may be American there may be multiple subgroups that one considers themselves apart other than nationality.

You can say WE as in us people from New York set up against all other towns in America
You can say WE as in us wrestling fans set up against all the people that are not wrestling fans

You don't just belong to one social group, I'd wager than most people in America does not just considers themselves only Americans but rather consider themselves a member of other social groups than just being an America.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Genking48 said:


> What do you mean you don't get that. Now we're probably getting into social identity theory or some self-categorization theory stuff, bear with me. Even though someone may be American there may be multiple subgroups that one considers themselves apart other than nationality.
> 
> You can say WE as in us people from New York set up against all other towns in America
> You can say WE as in us wrestling fans set up against all the people that are not wrestling fans
> ...


There is a difference between saying i'm a New Yorker and A Proud "southerner" that holds up a confederate flag.

What possible reason is there to be proud of backwards evil fucks who fought because they didn't want the Union interfering with "States Rights" 

Sure you can say WE. And i will associate you with them. I get what he saying when he means WE but i can't figure out why a moral human would want to be associated with that. They should not be supported in anyway at ALL


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## The_It_Factor (Aug 14, 2012)

On one hand, I understand removing certain pieces of confederate history, but on the other hand, it doesn't seem like an effective way to accomplish anything. I completely disagree with the whitewashing of other things, however.

For example, in my hometown, there is a street called "Aycock." There is also an "Aycock" building at one of the local colleges. I'd wager to be less than 1% of people from my city even knew who the Aycocks were, or what they stood for. Apparently, someone did some research and found out that they were a prominent family in the area that happened to own slaves. People, as they naturally do in 2017, got offended and forced the name of the building to be changed (IIRC, there is an effort to rename the road).... why? It accomplishes nothing other than being an annoyance and emphasizing that mundane things need to be whitewashed in case someone gets offended.

Again, had it not been for the fuss from a VERY small group, nearly everyone in my city would have gone on with their lives blissfully ignorant of who this family even was. 

I think these are the situations that most people have an issue with. Not EVERYTHING has to be whitewashed to keep people in an insulated bubble. 

I hate doing this, but imagine the outrage if NYC did the same and removed Malcolm X signs from Lenox Ave, or changed the name of Marcus Garvey Blvd. Bc white people were "offended"?


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## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

KingCosmos said:


> There is a difference between saying i'm a New Yorker and A Proud "southerner" that holds up a confederate flag.
> 
> What possible reason is there to be proud of backwards evil fucks who fought because they didn't want the Union interfering with "States Rights"
> 
> Sure you can say WE. And i will associate you with them. I get what he saying when he means WE but i can't figure out why a moral human would want to be associated with that. They should not be supported in anyway at ALL


Yes, because all confederates were evil an mo union soldier commited atrocities. Let's just ignore the truths of the Civil War to create a false dichotomy of good and evil.

Fuck... it's like most of you have never actually researched what you are talking about.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Kabraxal said:


> Yes, because all confederates were evil an mo union soldier commited atrocities. Let's just ignore the truths of the Civil War to create a false dichotomy of good and evil.
> 
> Fuck... it's like most of you have never actually researched what you are talking about.


I hate the Union and the Confederacy because they are all horrible human beings that treated blacks as sub-human but nice try. But at least the Union was cool with "freeing" them

There is no debate on fucking good and evil. The Confederacy wanting to keep slaves is pure fucking evil jesus. It's not a damn moral quandary. Or tell me is it for you?


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## Flair Flop (May 21, 2011)

I'm just going to drop my two cents in here and then get the fuck out of dodge. I'm a strong supporter of the flag. I even have a very small tattoo of it on my arm. As you're reading this I'm well aware that some posters here are likely already labeling me some terrible racist because of that, but here's the truth for those willing to actually listen. I've told my story on here before but here it goes. There was a period in my life during my teens where I had a friend and his family that I was very close to. They did Civil War reenactments. His father has spoken at universities about the Civil War. It's just something they were all very interested in. I also became very interested in it and had a lot of fun during that period of my life. I wore the shirts. He got me my first job and his work truck had the flag flying on it. Some of his employees that rode in the truck were black men. They didn't care. They understood that this family weren't racist. Just really into the history of the Civil War. I dont feel that alone is a fair reason to completely write someone off. I'm fascinated as fuck with serial killers. I'm like an encyclopedia on them. Does that automatically make me one?

When I look at the tatto on my arm I dont see a symbol of hate. I see a symbol of my youth where I have a lot of great memories. The reenactments were actually pretty fun. Judge me if you like. I know some will. I'm proud to be from the South. I love our accents. I also find the stereotypes to be amusing as hell. While in some case they are true, in most cases they are highly exaggerated. The flag will always be a symbol of the South to some. A way of saying they are proud to be who they are. If some can't see it without applying the racist label them I'm sorry. If that is enough for them to immediately write a person off...also sorry. Their loss.


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Beatles123 said:


> Well you also have to realize, to some the negative associations with the south will always be there no matter how much we "Evolve". People are always gonna see us as hicks, im afraid. I think we've actually made progress but we'll always be a little different from other places. We're always going to have a right wing lean in much the same way as Cali is an SJW hive. If we can just learn we have different lifestyles to contend with on our side and not perpetuate stereotypes like in charlotsville and live n let live, and ya can let us do us to that extent, we good.
> 
> The flag is like any flag. It's always goin' to have crazy peoplr. Better to have it warts and all and strive to make it better. Totally silence them and you have....well, this mess.


If it makes you feel any better at all, I can whole heartedly say that my greatest ever vacation in well over 30 years of life was road tripping the Southern States. Between the food (oh good God the food) the hospitality (which was extended to 2 Brits, one black, one white and a Mexican raised in Georgia as equally and thoroughly as anybody else we encountered) the music (and music history) and the laid back attitude I can honestly say it's my favourite part of America. I've had BBQ on 3 continents too, and noone comes close to the Southern US by my reckoning. I always thought if I was to move to the USA it'd be in the south, it always feels a lot more laid back and "homey" than the north, especially in the cities. Northern cities I've been to the "rat race" feels palpable like a gloom hovering around the place, I've rarely encountered the same down south. I personally think you all get a bad rep based mostly on history, the south was always very welcoming to me.


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## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

KingCosmos said:


> That's all nice and cozy that you want to find a way to justify putting up a statue of deplorable sick human beings that wanted to keep humans enslaved , but we also know many Confederate statues were made during Jim Crow as a little reminder to the good ol *******. Fuck those monuments


Same goes for the sick human beings who tore a statue down in Durham. Peaceful protest uh!


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Flair Flop said:


> I'm just going to drop my two cents in here and then get the fuck out of dodge. I'm a strong supporter of the flag. I even have a very small tattoo of it on my arm. As you're reading this I'm well aware that some posters here are likely already labeling me some terrible racist because of that, but here's the truth for those will to actually listen. I've told my story on here before but here it goes. There was a period in my life during my teens where I had a friend and his family that I was very close to. They did Civil War reenactments. His father has spoken at universities about the Civil War. It's just something they were all very interested in. I also became very interested in it and had a lot of fun during that period of my life. I wore the shirts. He got me my first job and his work truck had the flag flying on it. Some of his employees that rode in the truck were black men. They didn't care. They understood that this family weren't racist. Just really into the history of the Civil War. I dont feel that alone is a fair reason to completely wrote someone off. I'm fascinated as fuck with serial killers. I'm like an encyclopedia on them. Does that automatically make me one?
> 
> When I look at the tatto on my arm I dont see a symbol of hate. I see a symbol of my youth where I have a lot of great memories. The reenactments were actually pretty fun. Judge me if you like. I know some will. I'm proud to be from the South. I love our accents. I also find the stereotypes to be amusing as hell. While in some case they are true, in most cases they are highly exaggerated. The flag will always be a symbol of the South to some. A way of saying they are proud to be who they are. If some can't see it without applying the racist label them I'm sorry. If that is enough for them to immediately write a person off...also sorry. Their loss.


I'm not judging you and i don't believe you are racist. But being proud of the south NOW doesn't mean you should be proud of the South of the past. I live in the south too and i love some of the culture but i don't see the need to fly around that symbol

I find reading German history very interesting and peculiar when it comes to understanding the human condition and how they commit atrocities but i'm not going to Tattoo a swastika on my arm personally. SS uniforms look pretty cool but im not going to go put one on


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## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

KingCosmos said:


> I hate the Union and the Confederacy because they are all horrible human beings that treated blacks as sub-human but nice try. But at least the Union was cool with "freeing" them
> 
> There is no debate on fucking good and evil. The Confederacy wanting to keep slaves is pure fucking evil jesus. It's not a damn moral quandary. Or tell me is it for you?


Except over 90 percent never owned slaves and were fighting for completely different reason. Except there were Union leaders that not only jailed dissenters simply for speech, but intentionally tried to nueter the south's economy (ultimately succeeding in complete spite evenafter victory), and then there were generals like Sherman... so yeah, keep on in your delusional need to make the war black and white instead of the grey moral mess it actually was.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Kabraxal said:


> Except over 90 percent never owned slaves and were fighting for completely different reason. Except there were Union leaders that not only jailed dissenters simply for speech, but intentionally tried to nueter the south's economy (ultimately succeeding in complete spite evenafter victory), and then there were generals like Sherman... so yeah, keep on in your delusional need to make the war black and white instead of the grey moral mess it actually was.


Well gee would you look at that. Most of them didn't own slaves. Hey everybody it's ok only 10% owned slaves. Like i said they are all horrible people even the Union. I don't give a damn if 1% only owned slaves if it's legal it's a fucking abomination to humanity. I'm sure the other 90% enjoyed when it was time to gather around and lynch a ***** for entertainment. Keeping slaves also apparently isn't black and white to you which is sad to know. Keeping slaves isn't a moral debate. It's fucking wrong, And i'm sure you thought it was so terrible the South felt oppressed because the lac of "States Rights"


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## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

KingCosmos said:


> Well gee would you look at that. Most of them didn't own slaves. Hey everybody it's ok only 10% owned slaves. Like i said they are all horrible people even the Union. I don't give a damn if 1% only owned slaves if it's legal it's a fucking abomination to humanity. I'm sure the other 90% enjoyed when it was time to gather around and lynch a ***** for entertainment. Keeping slaves also apparently isn't black and white to you which is sad to know. Keeping slaves isn't a moral debate. It's fucking wrong, And i'm sure you thought it was so terrible the South felt oppressed because the lac of "States Rights"


So you can't even deal with simple facts. Jump right to screaming only about slavery but ignoring the other atrocities committed by leaders that admitted they gave no shits about the slaves. The war and the moral quandries surrounding it just don't focus on slavery. 

Maybe if you actually researched you'd realise how childish you look. But since it is clear you're just going to stamp your feet and spout the same emotional rhetoric with no actual understanding of a complex situation, I'm done talking. You are just not worth the time to try and educate. If you think the Civil War is a situation of good vs evil, then you only prove your ignorance. So keep ranting.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Kabraxal said:


> So you can't even deal with simple facts. Jump right to screaming only about slavery but ignoring the other atrocities committed by leaders that admitted they gave no shits about the slaves. The war and the moral quandries surrounding it just don't focus on slavery.
> 
> Maybe if you actually researched you'd realise how childish you look. But since it is clear you're just going to stamp your feet and spout the same emotional rhetoric with no actual understanding of a complex situation, I'm done talking. You are just not worth the time to try and educate. If you think the Civil War is a situation of good vs evil, then you only prove your ignorance. So keep ranting.


No i think it was Evil vs Evil which you keep ignoring. Just the Union was ok with "freeing" slaves which makes them morally superior regardless of what other arguments there is to be had about a War since freeing HUMAN BEINGS FROM VILE SICK DISGUSTING SITUATIONS overrides any other problems the war might have started over. It immediately makes the confederates evil if they are not willing to let human beings go free. B-b-but the Union was taxing...nope this is immediately gets overrided by the fact the Union was willing to free slaves. They instantly become the moral superior. That's ok tho since i know what kind of person you are.


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## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

KingCosmos said:


> No i think it was Evil vs Evil which you keep ignoring. Just the Union was ok with "freeing" slaves which makes them morally superior regardless of what other arguments there is to be had about a War since freeing HUMAN BEINGS FROM VILE SICK DISGUSTING SITUATIONS overrides any other problems the war might have started over. It immediately makes the confederates evil if they are not willing to let human beings go free. B-b-but the Union was taxing...nope this is immediately gets overrided by the fact the Union was willing to free slaves. They instantly become the moral superior. That's ok tho since i know what kind of person you are.


Let me guess... you're going to scream racist like the typical ignorant child that can't handle the complexities of a situation. If you want to say I'm southern, sure. Southern Italian. See if you read that through or go "aha!".

If you researched the war, you'd know the war was fought by the north to maintain the union. The emancipation did not cone until a year and a half into the war, when Lincoln realised he could not win the war without it. He is on record as saying if he could maintain the union without aboloshing slavery, he would. So much for the moral high ground for that man (which is completely obliterated by his shredding of the constitution and support for men like Sherman).

Let's destroy that delusion of yours more. Sherman burned, pillaged, and murdered civilians on his march through the south. He committed acts of equal evil and was celebrated for it by the Union. 

Succession was the true cause of the war. While slavery did play a role, it was not the entirety of the war or reasons for fighting. It wasn't even until the North refused succession that 4 more states joined and the war truly started. 

Celebraring the north as morally superior simply because "they fought teh slavery" exposes your inability to understand the war and the fucked up nature on both sides that created atrocities all around. Condemning every Confederate is also a simplistic reduction meant to reduce a layered conplex situation for an ignorant mind incapable of seeing the whole picture.

Many Confederates were simple, good people. Many Union members were vile sacks of shits. And many were never fighting for an end or continuation of slavery. I know. These are difficult concepts that you are having issues with. But maybe you shouldn't try to discuss the civil war with someone that actually spent time looking at all sides to see the moral complexities involved. Easiest way for you to not emberass yourself further is to stop talking about something you are ignorant on.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Kabraxal said:


> Let me guess... you're going to scream racist like the typical ignorant child that can't handle the complexities of a situation. If you want to say I'm southern, sure. Southern Italian. See if you read that through or go "aha!".
> 
> If you researched the war, you'd know the war was fought by the north to maintain the union. The emancipation did not cone until a year and a half into the war, when Lincoln realised he could not win the war without it. He is on record as saying if he could maintain the union without aboloshing slavery, he would. So much for the moral high ground for that man (which is completely obliterated by his shredding of the constitution and support for men like Sherman).
> 
> ...


Holy shit it's like you don't even read what i posted. I think both the UNION AND THE CONFEDERACY ARE EVIL. They view Blacks as sub human and treated them as such. So your whole rant about Sherman was pointless. I know Lincoln said he would keep slavery and i think he is a fucking deplorable too. Did you think by bringing him up it would help your argument? How are you not getting it doesn't matter what REASON the war started over if ONE side takes the stance of just even the possibility to freeing enslaved human beings that makes them better. I don't give a damn how many "good" Confederates there were. They would Lynch a slave in a second for doing something wrong and it would be entertainment for them. And they had no problem with living off of their pain and suffering


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## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

KingCosmos said:


> Holy shit it's like you don't even read what i posted. I think both the UNION AND THE CONFEDERACY ARE EVIL. They view Blacks as sub human and treated them as such. So your whole rant about Sherman was pointless. I know Lincoln said he would keep slavery and i think he is a fucking deplorable too. Did you think by bringing him up it would help your argument? How are you not getting it doesn't matter what REASON the war started over if ONE side takes the stance of just even possibility freeing enslaved human beings that makes them better.


And yet you haven't dealt with the fact that the war started and went over a year before that stance was actually taken... and not for any moral reasons, but logistical for the purposes of winning the war.

You keep trying to reduce this all to slavery, but you don't even know the basic facts. I'm not the fool trying to claim either side has moral superiority. So instead of arguing with ignorant emotion, try to bring up rational facts.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/897483294874488832


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

Reaper said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/897483294874488832


Yeah, take it down. Also, why does Seattle have a Lenin statue?


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

virus21 said:


> Yeah, take it down. Also, why does Seattle have a Lenin statue?


because the majority there are communist scum and it's also (not coincidentally) the home of the largest proportion of violent antifa thugs in the country. 

They've been filthy communists since at least the mid 90's. The original black bloc got violent there as early as 99. Look up the Seattle WTO riots. 

Probably cuz there's a lot of migration and "cultural exchange" there from the socialist north (Canada). Of course, me being in University shortly after in socialist Canada got a healthy dose of anti-corporatist indoctrination by several communist professors ... Unfortunately for them, I decided to go into business right after.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Kabraxal said:


> And yet you haven't dealt with the fact that the war started and went over a year before that stance was actually taken... and not for any moral reasons, but logistical for the purposes of winning the war.
> 
> You keep trying to reduce this all to slavery, but you don't even know the basic facts. I'm not the fool trying to claim either side has moral superiority. So instead of arguing with ignorant emotion, try to bring up rational facts.


You can keep saying it was because of "States Rights" but we all know what that included but go ahead and keep denying this.

And again one side does have moral superiority due to the fact that they were WILLING to eradicate slavery. It doesn't matter if it was for a tactical advantage the mere possibility of them doing it makes them the morally correct side . Do you not understand what slavery is? Do you need a lesson in what went on? Or are you that daft that you think they were workers?Whatever reason they had they become in the right because ending slavery benefits the human condition EXPONENTIALLY more than other "reasons" for the War


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)




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## TheJack (Mar 13, 2006)

virus21 said:


> Yeah, take it down. Also, why does Seattle have a Lenin statue?





Reaper said:


> because the majority there are communist scum and it's also (not coincidentally) the home of the largest proportion of violent antifa thugs in the country.
> 
> They've been filthy communists since at least the mid 90's. The original black bloc got violent there as early as 99. Look up the Seattle WTO riots.
> 
> Probably cuz there's a lot of migration and "cultural exchange" there from the socialist north (Canada). Of course, me being in University shortly after in socialist Canada got a healthy dose of anti-corporatist indoctrination by several communist professors ... Unfortunately for them, I decided to go into business right after.



...or, just maybe, theres another reason:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Lenin,_Seattle


And I, a scummy liberal communist (who works for a big bank, but shhhh), would even help to remove that statue from the public if I were there.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

TheJack said:


> ...or, just maybe, theres another reason:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Lenin,_Seattle
> 
> ...


Hey, I'm working an angle here. I don't give a fuck about your facts and your nuanced history or any of that crap. 

It's communist filth and that's all it is and anyone that supports it is communist scum and you're all fascists and take it down. take it down. take it down. It's evil. It's morally depraved. It's inhuman. Anyone supporting it is morally inept. 

See what I did there?


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## Narcisse (Nov 24, 2015)

In the UK, we as a nation are often accused of historical amnesia. We are so busy celebrating or achievements in the world on a global scale, that we often forget the atrocities that were perpetrated in the name of the "British Empire" to realise them. 

I find the forced removal of statues and monuments incredibly contradictory in terms of what it actually achieves. How often do we hear that we must never forget, even as we edit out that which we find historically unpalatable from our landscape. 

I fully understand that people consider such statues from the past to be celebratory as opposed to being commemorative of a moment in time. In the UK, however this would mean very many iconic landmarks would be lost. For example, Lord Nelson committed some very questionable acts in the name of the Empire, he effectively destroyed the Neapolitan Republic. So Nelson's Column would have to come down. The Tate art gallery was funded by Tate and Lyle who are sugar manufacturers. Follow that money back to the source and you will find slavery at it's roots. You could probably find a moral reason to remove every single statue in the whole of London if you really tried.

It's not the role of the present to eradicate the past and pretend that it didn't happen. I firmly believe in educating people and encouraging debate, we can't do that if we airbrush history. It doesn't actually enable us to learn if everything that we don't like is made to vanish. If we protect ourselves from everything, we experience and learn nothing.


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## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

KingCosmos said:


> You can keep saying it was because of "States Rights" but we all know what that included but go ahead and keep denying this.
> 
> And again one side does have moral superiority due to the fact that they were WILLING to eradicate slavery. It doesn't matter if it was for a tactical advantage the mere possibility of them doing it makes them the morally correct side . Do you not understand what slavery is? Do you need a lesson in what went on? Or are you that daft that you think they were workers?Whatever reason they had they become in the right because ending slavery benefits the human condition EXPONENTIALLY more than other "reasons" for the War


So it was okay to burn Atlanta, steal, and murder civilians because "dey were figthing teh slavery!!1!1"?

You keep yelling emotional bullshit but fail to actually rationally discuss this issue. You claimed all Confederates were evil and have done nothing to back that up aside from your childish screaming. I know that is how debate is taught now, but be better than the bottom feeding and brain dead talking heads on TV. Remove your emotion and actually defend your point with reason. Or I'll continue laughing.

This has never been about excusing slavery. This has been about your stupid statement I first responded to where you tried to paint every confederate as evil. Only the ignorant fall to such reductionist claims.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Kabraxal said:


> So it was okay to burn Atlanta, steal, and murder civilians because "dey were figthing teh slavery!!1!1"?
> 
> You keep yelling emotional bullshit but fail to actually rationally discuss this issue. You claimed all Confederates were evil and have done nothing to back that up aside from your childish screaming. I know that is how debate is taught now, but be better than the bottom feeding and brain dead talking heads on TV. Remove your emotion and actually defend your point with reason. Or I'll continue laughing.
> 
> This has never been about excusing slavery. This has been about your stupid statement I first responded to where you tried to paint every confederate as evil. Only the ignorant fall to such reductionist claims.


Once again another idiotic response and you completely ignore what i said. I said both of them are Evil. One can be morally superior that doesn't mean they are however morally virtuous , do you get what that means? Or do i have to break it down for you more? Are you going to idiotically ignore what i said for like the third time? You keep ignoring what i'm saying get it through your thick skull please

I also said I don't give a damn how many "good" Confederates there were, yes there could have morally superior confederates in the end i don't care because most would have no problem lynching a slave. But nice try forcing words and stating i said ALL CONFEDERATES were bad and trying to say haven't backed that claim when i haven't made such one. But yeah i'll go as far as to say most if not a high percentage of them were shitty disgusting humans that viewed blacks as sub human


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## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)




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## BoFreakinDallas (Jul 8, 2017)

Reaper said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/897483294874488832


Just like Slave Owner and Treasonist Robert E. Lee he belongs in a museum and in history books. We don't have statues of Benedict Arnold and Nazi Commanding Officers,not sure why in America someone who commanded a foreign army should have statue's honoring them.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

BoFreakinDallas said:


> Just like Slave Owner and Treasonist Robert E. Lee he belongs in a museum and in history books. We don't have statues of Benedict Arnold and Nazi Commanding Officers,not sure why in America someone who commanded a foreign army should have statue's honoring them.


I have given my serious view on this in the thread early ... and I'll re-iterate. I don't venerate or care much for symbols and statues because to me they're idols and idolization in and of itself is part of our cultish natures. Personally, I'd like society to move beyond this, but if they're not ready to embrace it, then they should not be coerced in any way either. 

Personally, I have no serious issues with removal of statues as long as it is achieved through a democratic process and comes organically ... and done in a different way than ISIS do it. 

I mean, I saw this video today: 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/897234834019557376
Coming from the muslim world where ISIS also destroy statues EXACTLY like this, the similarity just sends chills down my spine. 

I'm not one for venerating symbols. I do think that all history has its place in our society, but if the society is not yet ready to peacefully deliberate and peacefully retire the symbols of its history then it is a step that no one should be forced to take. 

The hallmark of civilization is diplomacy, not violence.


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## BoFreakinDallas (Jul 8, 2017)

If 90% of the voters of Durham voted to take the statue down they still wouldn't be able to "legally" 

In 2015 the North Carolina General Assembly passed a bill protecting all public monuments in the state. This was done explicitly to keep cities and other municipalities from removing their Confederate monuments. A city council has to get approval from the General Assembly if they want to remove a monument, and the General Assembly currently has veto-proof Republican majorities in both chambers.

Durham is a very Democratic city. They would have removed this monument already if the legislature had let them. Our towns and cities are becoming either very red or very blue. States and the federal government should let smaller units determine things in instances like this.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

BoFreakinDallas said:


> If 90% of the voters of Durham voted to take the statue down they still wouldn't be able to "legally"


I agree with following the legal process, but nothing justifies any form of vandalism or violence. Tearing down a statue isn't just a form of violence against a statue, it is an indication of a slippery slope towards chaos.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

KingCosmos said:


> Once again another idiotic response and you completely ignore what i said. I said both of them are Evil. One can be morally superior that doesn't mean they are however morally virtuous , do you get what that means? Or do i have to break it down for you more? Are you going to idiotically ignore what i said for like the third time? You keep ignoring what i'm saying get it through your thick skull please
> 
> I also said I don't give a damn how many "good" Confederates there were, yes there could have morally superior confederates in the end i don't care because most would have no problem lynching a slave. But nice try forcing words and stating i said ALL CONFEDERATES were bad and trying to say haven't backed that claim when i haven't made such one. But yeah i'll go as far as to say most if not a high percentage of them were shitty disgusting humans that viewed blacks as sub human


You're not listening rhough, man. The flag isn't on the same level as a swastika. That's not what its about to most modern southerners that want to fly it.

Thats cool though, you have your opinion.


----------



## Eric Fleischer (Mar 28, 2012)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/897559892164304896
Enjoy! That's your guy!


----------



## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Beatles123 said:


> You're not listening rhough, man. The flag isn't on the same level as a swastika. That's not what its about to most modern southerners that want to fly it.
> 
> Thats cool though, you have your opinion.


No i get that not everybody that flies the flag equates it with that and everyone that has it isn't racist i understand. But if i tattoo a swastika on myself saying "Oh it was orignally a good symbol" I can see why people would look at me sideways. I know people have tried to rebrand what it means but i feel a new symbol should be made


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Eric Fleischer said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/897559892164304896
> Enjoy! That's your guy!


Trump condemned everyone and called out the white supremacists, what's the problem?


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

Meanwhile in Poland....










Why do the Poles these days always fucking get it? :mark:


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

The left sure does love to prop up David Duke when it's convenient. :lol


----------



## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

L-DOPA said:


> Meanwhile in Poland....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because they'll lived it. They also fucked up Antifa when they tried starting shit.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

The First Amendment and protesting with a permit don't apply if you're a racist. :lol

- Vic


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

WELP, NOW THE LINCOLN MEMORIAL WAS VANDALIZED.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

I'm beginning to believe that Poland will eventually become the last surviving bastion of western philosophy, tradition and civilization. I used to think that it would be rural america, but we're under serious threat of getting overthrown within the next 50 odd years :mj2 

As long as they are able to keep the EU at bay. 

Poland is really just :banderas



CamillePunk said:


> The left sure does love to prop up David Duke when it's convenient. :lol


It's really intriguing that left is always talking about what David Duke says and I follow over a 100 right wingers on Twitter and I haven't seen a single person retweet anything from him.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

KingCosmos said:


> No i get that not everybody that flies the flag equates it with that and everyone that has it isn't racist i understand. But if i tattoo a swastika on myself saying "Oh it was originally a good symbol" I can see why people would look at me sideways. I know people have tried to rebrand what it means but i feel a new symbol should be made


But the confederacy wasn't made solely for slavery reasons. It was a big reason for SOME states, but not all. Besides, as o told you: The flag's meaning has evolved. We shouldn't change the flag because the perception behind it just happens to fit a narrative, We should be upholding the flag for the symbol it is now so that it defeats the past it's tied to. Like Rick said, it's part of who we are. We shouldn't change that because others want to see what they wanna see.


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/897572056912494592
Read this thread of tweets and see how many people are hallucinating that Trump said "the alt left came charging at *us*" (he actually said "the" and it wasn't remotely ambiguous). This is what TDS looks like.

EDIT: The tweet was deleted. A lot of other people are still saying the same thing on Twitter though. Pure hallucination. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/897427985489428480
Yep.


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Miss Sally said:


> Trump condemned everyone and called out the white supremacists, what's the problem?


A few things. He tried to say there were good people on both sides. No, fuck every single white supremacist, white nationalist and bigot on earth. He also condemned white supremacists but then played the sympathizer role and said wait what about the other side . A viewpoint white supremacists, white nationalists and white sympathizers enjoy because it points the finger in the other direction and suggest that the people on the other side are on the same moral spectrum which is bullshit. All it's really doing is enabling them because they still view this as some kind of victory. 

This is 100% white supremacists fault. Organizing some racist shit like this is going to bring violence. Just like the thing at Berkeley was 100% liberal fault. 

And for my personal view point, he claimed in this interview that he likes to know his facts before speaking. Even though he continues to get exposed for lying or not having the facts. Yet the Central Park 5 (4 blacks, 1 latino, all teenagers who were accused of raping a white woman) were guilty immediately to him, and he took out ads in the newspaper asking for them to get the death penalty. When they were exonerated by DNA evidence like 25 years later and given money by NYC as an apology, Trump said he thought they were still guilty and wouldn't have given them shit. *Fuck him. *


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

> The left sure does love to prop up David Duke when it's convenient.


And Richard Spencer.

- Vic


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Beatles123 said:


> WELP, NOW THE LINCOLN MEMORIAL WAS VANDALIZED.


These are your people, you should be loving this. Everything I have said about the south is being proven in spades this past weekend.


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Beatles123 said:


> But the confederacy wasn't made solely for slavery reasons. It was a big reason for SOME states, but not all. Besides, as o told you: The flag's meaning has evolved. We shouldn't change the flag because the perception behind it just happens to fit a narrative, We should be upholding the flag for the symbol it is now so that it defeats the past it's tied to. Like Rick said, it's part of who we are. We shouldn't change that because others want to see what they wanna see.


Yes it was, we have been over this a million times.

Educate yourself on this FFS.

The flag is a symbol of racism, it would be like Germany keeping the Nazi flag. Do you think Germany should allow state capitals to fly the Nazi flag?

What exactly do you think the civil war was about if it was not slavery?


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

birthday_massacre said:


> Yes it was, we have been over this a million times.
> 
> Educate yourself on this FFS.
> 
> ...


Im not doing this and you shouldn't either. Get out. Now. We know how we get.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Headliner said:


> A few things. He tried to say there were good people on both sides. No, fuck every single white supremacist, white nationalist and bigot on earth. He also condemned white supremacists but then played the sympathizer role and said wait what about the other side . A viewpoint white supremacists, white nationalists and white sympathizers enjoy because it points the finger in the other direction and suggest that the people on the other side are on the same moral spectrum which is bullshit. All it's really doing is enabling them because they still view this as some kind of victory.
> 
> This is 100% white supremacists fault. Organizing some racist shit like this is going to bring violence. Just like the thing at Berkeley was 100% liberal fault.
> 
> And for my personal view point, he claimed in this interview that he likes to know his facts before speaking. Even though he continues to get exposed for lying or not having the facts. Yet the Central Park 5 (4 blacks, 1 latino, all teenagers who were accused of raping a white woman) were guilty immediately to him, and he took out ads in the newspaper asking for them to get the death penalty. When they were exonerated by DNA evidence like 25 years later and given money by NYC as an apology, Trump said he thought they were still guilty and wouldn't have given them shit. *Fuck him. *



Understandable viewpoint given what you said.

Though I'd say Antifa is on the same moral spectrum as the Alt Right, they're two sides of the same coin.


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Beatles123 said:


> Im not doing this and you shouldn't either. Get out. Now. We know how we get.


We dont have to do this because you are uneducated. I have told you a number of times and backed it up with quotes and you still pretend the Confederate flag is not racist and the civil war was not all about slavery.

But you keep proving my point about people from the south. And this weekend did that even more so.

Hope you are proud of your southerners


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Headliner said:


> A few things. He tried to say there were good people on both sides. No, fuck every single white supremacist, white nationalist and bigot on earth. He also condemned white supremacists but then played the sympathizer role and said wait what about the other side . A viewpoint white supremacists, white nationalists and white sympathizers enjoy because it points the finger in the other direction and suggest that the people on the other side are on the same moral spectrum which is bullshit. All it's really doing is enabling them because they still view this as some kind of victory.
> 
> This is 100% white supremacists fault. Organizing some racist shit like this is going to bring violence. Just like the thing at Berkeley was 100% liberal fault.
> 
> And for my personal view point, he claimed in this interview that he likes to know his facts before speaking. Even though he continues to get exposed for lying or not having the facts. Yet the Central Park 5 (4 blacks, 1 latino, all teenagers who were accused of raping a white woman) were guilty immediately to him, and he took out ads in the newspaper asking for them to get the death penalty. When they were exonerated by DNA evidence like 25 years later and given money by NYC as an apology, Trump said he thought they were still guilty and wouldn't have given them shit. *Fuck him. *


You don't believe there were non-nazis there?


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

birthday_massacre said:


> We dont have to do this because you are uneducated. I have told you a number of times and backed it up with quotes and you still pretend the Confederate flag is not racist and the civil war was not all about slavery.
> 
> But you keep proving my point about people from the south. And this weekend did that even more so.
> 
> Hope you are proud of your southerners


I hope everyone sees this bait. Fucks sake, IM NOT DOING THIS!!! LEAVE ME ALONE!!!


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Beatles123 said:


> You don't believe there were non-nazis there?


Lets put it this way, all the ones protesting were racists. So no there were no non-racists there from the right.




Beatles123 said:


> I hope everyone sees this bait. Fucks sake, IM NOT DOING THIS!!! LEAVE ME ALONE!!!


If you are going to make a claim about the Confederate flag and civil war, you need to be able to back it up. If you can't then don't make the comment or just put me on ignore.


----------



## Oda Nobunaga (Jun 12, 2006)

@Beatles123 @birthday_massacre

Don't do this to yourselves. We've been through this before. :lmao


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Oda Nobunaga said:


> @Beatles123 @birthday_massacre
> 
> Don't do this to yourselves. We've been through this before. :lmao


I'm fucking trying! :cry


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Oda Nobunaga said:


> @Beatles123 @birthday_massacre
> 
> Don't do this to yourselves. We've been through this before. :lmao


I think these two need to be forcibly divorced from one another and if either quotes the other they get an infraction for the benefit of the greater good and peace of this section. 

:kobe3


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Oda Nobunaga said:


> @Beatles123 @birthday_massacre
> 
> Don't do this to yourselves. We've been through this before. :lmao


This is why I have been staying out of the Trump threads LOL

I shouldnt have even peaked in the last couple of days ha

I should bow out before I get banned ha ha


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Reaper said:


> I think these two need to be forcibly divorced from one another and if either quotes the other they get an infraction for the benefit of the greater good and peace of this section.
> 
> :kobe3


:justsayin I didn't want this. Fine by me.


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Reaper said:


> I think these two need to be forcibly divorced from one another and if either quotes the other they get an infraction for the benefit of the greater good and peace of this section.
> 
> :kobe3


Dont worry I am bowing out of these Trump threads again. Trump supporters can't deal with the truth. Can't wait until Trump is finally impeached, the shitstorm will be amazing on this board.

Still not sure why Beatles has not put me on ignore.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

This stunt backfired on her.

Since Holier Than Thou is the trend these days.

- Vic


----------



## Flair Flop (May 21, 2011)

KingCosmos said:


> I'm not judging you and i don't believe you are racist. But being proud of the south NOW doesn't mean you should be proud of the South of the past. I live in the south too and i love some of the culture but i don't see the need to fly around that symbol
> 
> I find reading German history very interesting and peculiar when it comes to understanding the human condition and how they commit atrocities but i'm not going to Tattoo a swastika on my arm personally. SS uniforms look pretty cool but im not going to go put one on


It's really hard to find middle ground here. Especially with someone that views the symbol as a symbol of slavery. I can't, nor would I, ever tell anyone that they are wrong in their perception because it's is a fact that it did stand as a symbol for that at one point in our history. I just ask that those individual try to look at the point of view of those that have adopted it as a symbol of southern pride and also as I mentioned just a part of history. I see nothing wrong with collectors, reenactments, or anything of that nature. 

As far as the swastika goes, I've never known it to ever be associated with anything acceptable. I don't know the full history but was it allowed to linger around in Germany? I don't think it was. The fact that the flag did stick around on state flags and shows like Dukes of Hazzard, etc allowed people to assign a less terrible meaning to it. 

I don't want to see these type of riots. I actually believe that there is compromise to be found, though. The problem here is that when the anti flag people win one battle they keep going for more. Getting it off of states houses was one win and now it's any monument in view. Where will it end? When will they be fighting to have museums closed? When will they be pushing for flags being flown on private homes to be removed? Did the Dukes of Hazzard really need to be removed from airing altogether? That's why I fear giving in on these type of battle over statues. I'm not even opposed to moving them to museums to be honest. As long as it stops there. My take is pretty similar to this black man's take on it 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/06/24/i-am-a-black-south-carolinian-heres-why-i-support-the-confederate-flag/?utm_term=.9e9ec0711337
I've read quite a few stories of black southerners that support the flag but this one really stood out to me and I thought it would be worth sharing.


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

"Violence and Domestic Terrorism are completely OK....when its my side doing it" - The Right and the Left


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

TripleG said:


> "Violence and Domestic Terrorism are completely OK....when its my side doing it" - The Right and the Left


Nah, the protesters were universally condemned by the right. The left is pretending Antifa weren't even there, armed with bats and pipes. 


As expected the statue destroying will not stop with the confederates, as now SJWs want to remove a statue of Theodore Roosevelt from a New York City museum. 

http://www.dailywire.com/news/19741...and-new-york-museum-take-down-michael-qazvini


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/785698579671162880


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

CamillePunk said:


> remove a statue of Theodore Roosevelt


*????????????????????* :CENA


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I don't know how to embed tweets but this is funny: https://twitter.com/Freeyourmindkid/status/897555349607141376


----------



## BoFreakinDallas (Jul 8, 2017)

https://twitter.com/jackdwagner/status/897598398492278785

If this was a joke on family guy people would be like ok dial it down


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Beatles123 said:


> You don't believe there were non-nazis there?


Every single Conversative who was there and seen that nazi/white supremacist/nationalist shit that was going on and didn't go home or turn against them are pieces of shit.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

> remove a statue of Theodore Roosevelt


This is where I draw the line.

- Vic


----------



## Slickback (Jun 17, 2015)

samizayn said:


> I don't know how to embed tweets but this is funny: https://twitter.com/Freeyourmindkid/status/897555349607141376


All tweets have that unique serial number at the end just copy that with

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/ tags (Y)


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

samizayn said:


> I don't know how to embed tweets but this is funny: https://twitter.com/Freeyourmindkid/status/897555349607141376


There are two points blindingly apparent from that video. Firstly, the scared protagonist of the tale is a complete, utter buffoon like so many others of his political ilk. A wonderful exhibit for why democracy is an inherently iniquitous system. It may even be said that he "deserves" to be beaten. 

The second point is that, while it is impossible to know the extent to which he was legitimately likely to receive physical torment ("...about to get his ass whooped!"), the gleefulness of parties far and wide in seeing this pathetic specimen endangered is suspect at best and revolting at worst. The "Punch-a-Nazi"-palooza nonsense is remarkably shortsighted. What is the logical argument here? That neo-nazis hold beliefs so abundantly and fundamentally abhorrent that they need to get their "asses kicked"? As the video demonstrates it's a bit like using a "MOAB" on an irritating mosquito in very many cases. In this case "deserves" to be beaten is a matter apart from what is actually civilized behavior. 

Either some semblance of decorum is achieved or it's a mad free-for-all. The neo-nazis who attacked people and the individual who ran over the woman merit the fullest prosecution available, and so do antifa members who are violent. The lowliest antifa creature waving his red flag and fetishizing some of the most murderous regimes in history should be intellectually dismantled by political adversaries, not physically threatened or harmed, and the same goes for even the most twisted white supremacists spewing vile nonsense against and call for the mass murder of minorities, or black militants who publicly call for white babies to be slaughtered, or flat-earthers or radical Muslims demanding the institution of _sharia_ or anyone expressing the dumbest, most incendiary political or religious beliefs. It is profoundly disturbing how low common standards are becoming and this is doubtless true for every considerable faction under the present political umbrella. 



CamillePunk said:


> As expected the statue destroying will not stop with the confederates, as now SJWs want to remove a statue of Theodore Roosevelt from a New York City museum.
> 
> http://www.dailywire.com/news/19741...and-new-york-museum-take-down-michael-qazvini
> 
> ...


Going to congratulate myself for making the Theodore Roosevelt reference earlier in the thread. Prescience on display. :banderas :lol

Seriously, though, _of course_. Anyone who believed that this would stop at Confederate statues was being willfully delusional.


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)




----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Apparently there are now people trying to claim that the Antifa mob are "heroes" :lmao 

Of course, just like the communists were "heroes" to mother russia and china. 

The world is so full of ideological cancer, that at this point I'm surprised that civilization exists at all and we're not deeply immersed in the Mad Max universe.


----------



## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

And now this shit



> Hennepin County in Minneapolis, MN, allowed the Antifa Flag to be raised over city hall in place of the Hennepin County flag as a “gesture of solidarity” with the folks in Charlottesville. Which is a poor way of doing it – Antifa is a violent, anarchist, terrorist organization.
> 
> 
> Minnesota has been in the crosshairs of trouble since the shooting of Justine Damond. But allowing the flying of an anarchist, terrorist flag over city hall is completely out of whack. Should they just raise the ISIS flag too and make it even?
> ...


https://news.unclesamsmisguidedchildren.com/hennepin-county-flag-replaced-antifa-flag/


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

So I was told that Martin Luther King Jr was against Gay Marriage. 

That offends me and I want his statues taken down because he was a bigot and a homophobe. 

(please stop me when I sound crazy)


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

One rioter has been arrested by police, good work. Hopefully there's more to come.

http://wncn.com/2017/08/15/durham-s...-protesters-who-tore-down-confederate-statue/



> *Durham deputies arrest woman in connection with toppling of Confederate statue*
> 
> DURHAM, N.C. (WNCN) — Durham deputies arrested a woman Tuesday afternoon in connection with the toppling of a Confederate statue outside the old Durham County courthouse Monday evening.
> 
> ...


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Interesting. So in the video there's at least 40-50 people involved and they just arrest and charge 1 person :lmao


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

people are hilarious, just say you don't give a fuck because it doesn't affect you. Because I find it hard to believe most of you can't see the issues with this. You have a bunch of white people with torches angrily marching because somebody is getting rid of a Confederate statue. That sentence alone should paint a fucking picture of what's up and what's wrong. Yes we have freedom of speech name freedom of protest. But people angrily protesting in favor of keeping the statue of a racist, slave owning, traitor should be a simple matter of by law you can do this. But as people we can condemn you issue. I mean what reason could you give for this protest that doesn't come off as hateful

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

Ulysses S Grant, famed Union General and 18th elected US president, was a slave owner. 

As far as I know, Robert E Lee did NOT own slaves and actually opposed the institution. But he did lead the confederate army and led raids to capture freed and escaped slaves during the war. How can you oppose slavery but help the Confederacy do stuff like that? I don't know, but it sounds like its worthy of discussion, right? 

I'll use WWII as part of this too. The US dropped the bombs on Japan during WWII. Was that right? I mean Japan did side with Hitler, so we were justified in stopping allies of the ultimate evil, correct? But the US killed thousands of non-combatants in a brutal, horrible, and violent way? Is that right? But the Japanese forces committed some heinous war atrocities themselves (and I'm not even talking about Pearl Harbor. Read about Japanese War Crimes during that time. Wow), so did they deserve it? 

My point is, history is not completely cut and dry and almost nothing is entirely right and entirely wrong. You can't rewrite and/or erase the parts you don't like. History is recorded and presented so that we can learn from it, understand how we came to be what we are today, and how we can grow moving forward. 

This idea of "North = Good" and "South = Bad" during the Civil War is an overly simplistic, almost childlike, interpretation of the Civil War. Might as well call them Autobots and Decepticons at that point. I could sit here all day and list rights and wrongs on both sides and I'm not even a scholar on the subject. 

Basically, I am in favor of history being preserved. Erasing parts of history, even the bad ones, encourages ignorance and as they say, those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.


----------



## Robbyfude (Jan 21, 2014)

Lmao i don't have a say in this but never use Tariq Nasheed as a source.
https://twitter.com/tariqnasheed/status/803361349933928450

https://twitter.com/tariqnasheed/status/875516970916995073


Yeah i have no idea how to use the tags on this site

Anyways i hope the nazis and the commie/anarchists wipe each other out, that would be for the best.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Who cares about statues anyway? The North won. And that's the bottom line because Stone Cold said so!

But for real, the world should have no place for racists or supremacists. Fuck them to hell.

If The South had won, then we would all be fucked. There would be no immigration. America would probably be a third world country.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

> people are hilarious, just say you don't give a fuck because it doesn't affect you. Because I find it hard to believe most of you can't see the issues with this. You have a bunch of white people with torches angrily marching because somebody is getting rid of a Confederate statue. That sentence alone should paint a fucking picture of what's up and what's wrong. Yes we have freedom of speech name freedom of protest. But people angrily protesting in favor of keeping the statue of a racist, slave owning, traitor should be a simple matter of by law you can do this. But as people we can condemn you issue. I mean what reason could you give for this protest that doesn't come off as hateful


Statues are there as a reminder of our ugly history. If we don't learn from it, we're doomed to repeat it, but hey, go censorship! YAY! :clap



> Ulysses S Grant, famed Union General and 18th elected US president, was a slave owner.


So were the first 12 Presidents and Andrew Johnson. Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, and Lyndon Johnson were racists. Are they going to remove their statues too?

- Vic


----------



## Iapetus (Jun 5, 2015)

Confederates are treasonists. Confederate supporters are treasonists. And you know what we do to people who commit treason, RIGHT?
:nash


----------



## Born of Osiris (Oct 29, 2013)

Robbyfude said:


> Lmao i don't have a say in this but never use Tariq Nasheed as a source.
> https://twitter.com/tariqnasheed/status/803361349933928450
> 
> https://twitter.com/tariqnasheed/status/875516970916995073
> ...


What a complete fucking idiot.


----------



## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

TripleG said:


> So I was told that Martin Luther King Jr was against Gay Marriage.
> 
> That offends me and I want his statues taken down because he was a bigot and a homophobe.
> 
> (please stop me when I sound crazy)


Comparing MLK to confedrates. I want people to see this. Damn shame

Robert E. Lee owned slaves and went to fucking court to keep slaves that were supposed to be free' d for his father in law. MLK having a view on gay marriage is not fucking comparable. 

Most confederate statues were erected MANY years after the war to scare black people. Those fucking statues weren't about heritage they were about terror.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

Feeling _*terrified *_of a statue in 2017 .. Kids who were never slaves, never fought in the civil war are supposed to be _*terrified *_of statues :lmao


----------



## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Reaper said:


> Feeling _*terrified *_of a statue in 2017 .. Kids who were never slaves, never fought in the civil war are supposed to be _*terrified *_of statues :lmao


Let's erect statues of Hitler all over the place. I'm sure people will just be fine smart ass

"Kids who were never slaves"

This has to be the stupidest fucking thing I read in a while. What the fuck do you think the message is when people erect a statue of someone who fought to keep you enslaved?


----------



## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

KingCosmos said:


> Comparing MLK to confedrates. I want people to see this. Damn shame
> 
> Robert E. Lee owned slaves and went to fucking court to keep slaves that were supposed to be free' d for his father in law. MLK having a view on gay marriage is not fucking comparable.
> 
> Most confederate statues were erected MANY years after the war to scare black people. Those fucking statues weren't about heritage they were about terror.


Damn shame you can't fucking compare something to another. :ha :liquor


----------



## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

krtgolfing said:


> Damn shame you can't fucking compare something to another. :ha :liquor


Yes it is a damn shame when the comparison is trying to equate a moral equivalence. But I know what kinda person you are so I don't expect you to understand


----------



## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

KingCosmos said:


> Yes it is a damn shame when the comparison is trying to equate a moral equivalence. But I know what kinda person you are so I don't expect you to understand


A better person that you will ever be. At least I try to understand both sides POV. While you just keep spewing stupidity toward anyone's opinion who isn't yours. What is next you condone the people removing these statues illegally?


----------



## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

krtgolfing said:


> A better person that you will ever be. At least I try to understand both sides POV. While you just keep spewing stupidity toward anyone's opinion who isn't yours. What is next you condone the people removing these statues illegally?


Did i say i condone taking them down Illegally? Maybe you shouldn't assume things Lee Jr. I'm not worried tho, those precious statues that you adore so much have been coming down pretty fast. Maybe you should go figure out where they are going to put them so you can go appreciate your idols


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

KingCosmos said:


> Let's erect statues of Hitler all over the place. I'm sure people will just be fine smart ass
> 
> "Kids who were never slaves"
> 
> This has to be the stupidest fucking thing I read in a while. What the fuck do you think the message is when people erect a statue of someone who fought to keep you enslaved?


Apparently if you think that a statue of something invokes terror then you don't know what real terror is. Your life is not threatened by a statue. Your life is threatened by someone who wants to kill you. So yeah these kids today have no clue what terror is. They're privileged college children who are engaged in a massive tantrum largely because they want their lives to matter. 

It's really just emotional boredom. There's no civic or moral duty here at all.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Reaper said:


> Apparently if you think that a statue of something invokes terror then you don't know what real terror is. Your life is not threatened by a statue. Your life is threatened by someone who wants to kill you. So yeah these kids today have no clue what terror is. They're privileged college children who are engaged in a massive tantrum largely because they want their lives to matter.
> 
> It's really just emotional boredom. There's no civic or moral duty here at all.


So if the statues are so vapid in what they symbolize you should have no problem with them being taking down due to the original reason of them being put up was to demoralize blacks during the civil rights and etc


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## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

KingCosmos said:


> Did i say i condone taking them down Illegally? Maybe you shouldn't assume things Lee Jr. I'm not worried tho, those precious statues that you adore so much have been coming down pretty fast. Maybe you should go figure out where they are going to put them so you can go appreciate your idols


LOL. I have no fucking idols and if I did it would not be someone from before I was even born. I do not give a single fuck about any of these statues or any statue for that matter. I think it is a waste of taxpayers money and I have better things to worry about. Take them down, leave them up I don't give a shit. I am fine with the African American population wanting them taken down as they see it as a sign of racism and rightfully so. We then have the Neo-Nazi people that want to keep it up to keep the idea of racism alive in this country (sick BTW). Then you have another population that sees the confederate flag and statues as another part of history.


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

KingCosmos said:


> So if the statues are so vapid in what they symbolize you should have no problem with them being taking down due to the original reason of them being put up was to demoralize blacks during the civil rights and etc


I've already said I don't. 

But I was addressing your terror point because it's ridiculous.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

Reaper said:


> I've already said I don't.
> 
> But I was addressing your terror point because it's ridiculous.


No it's not ridiculous. Do you know what "symbolizes" means. Just because it symbolizes terror doesn't mean it invokes terror in said person. Are you denying the fact that these statues put up in the civil rights error symbolized terror against Blacks.? If you don't deny this fact then i would hope you would agree we shouldn't have symbols of terror in the US


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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

Bed wenches :kobe6


RapShepard said:


> But people angrily protesting in favor of keeping the statue of a racist, slave owning, traitor should be a simple matter of by law you can do this.


First of all, you just described the founding fathers.

Secondly, it is already a matter of law that they could do it. The ACLU fought to help them keep their permit to do it. The only reason there was violence was because people with no permits and weapons showed up and the police failed to keep the peace, even though the alt right organizers had asked the city for police assistance to ensure there would be no violence. 

Something else people don't seem to understand is that Richard Spencer's alt right has ZERO POLITICAL POWER. Nobody in the government, social elite, or mainstream media supports them either with rhetoric or with money. 

You can't say the same about Soros-funded Antifa, who the media constantly look the other way on and now everyone is trying to portray as anti-fascist anti-racist heroes as if the last year never happened. Violently preventing people from exercising the first amendment, no matter how vile their speech is, is not heroic in my book.


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## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

KingCosmos said:


> Comparing MLK to confedrates. I want people to see this. Damn shame


My statement was meant to be completely asinine. 

My point was history can not be edited, and you can't just sweep the bad stuff under the rug and that'll somehow make it better. 

I also wanted to make the point that no one historical figure is completely 100% pure to everyone. If MLK were around today and gave his true feelings on gay marriage, he'd probably be called a bigot. My question was at what point does appeasing hurt feelings go too far and history just gets swept under the rug just to make the present slightly more comfortable.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

TripleG said:


> My statement was meant to be completely asinine.
> 
> My point was history can not be edited, and you can't just sweep the bad stuff under the rug and that'll somehow make it better.
> 
> I also wanted to make the point that no one historical figure is completely 100% pure to everyone. If MLK were around today and gave his true feelings on gay marriage, he'd probably be called a bigot. My question was at what point does appeasing hurt feelings go too far and history just gets swept under the rug just to make the present slightly more comfortable.


Getting rid of a statue isn't trying to erase history tho. It's not glorifying a bad side of a history. I'm sure every person would think it would be ridiculous to erase the confederates from history .

There is also a difference between i don't think gays should marry and i want to enslave another human being


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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

This "omg you just compared x with y" any time someone provides an analogy or an example of why a specific criticism doesn't transfer universally is the lowest form of thinking there is. So useless and devoid of content.


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

If you're only making this about the statues, I think you're concern is completely misguided and in the wrong place. There are a hell of a lot more important things coming out of this than these than people being overly offended by some specific statues.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)




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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

Nice argument.


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## Nolo King (Aug 22, 2006)

I'm so disgusted by the media and have to do my own research each time they post "news".

Unlike a lot of people around me, I watched the entire conference Trump gave recently where he clarified his comments, something he didn't have to do in the first place. The reporters kept on playing stupid and trying so hard to twist his statements into their racist narrative.

What makes me so upset is coming to work at 6:30 in the morning and seeing a news headline that is a big fat lie. The main article basically states that Trump was making excuses for the white supremacists when there was no point in the conference that he did. Black Lives Matter, ANTIFA are all hate groups. Why isn't there an uproar for Trump not specifically saying he condemns them? That's right, because those groups are committing acts of hate and hindering people that think differently from having peaceful discourse because they are totally righteous! Absolutely sickening.. 

I try get people to actually listen to the conference and make their own judgments, but they would rather put their trust into these terrifyingly biased news networks. Looks like the Russia conspiracy is old news, time to move onto false racism allegations. This kinda shit is just gonna cause more division. Both sides have bad apples that are getting false information and they all appear to have a severe lack of critical thinking skills.


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## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

Oh I stopped trusting the American news media almost two decades ago. They're a joke. 

Here's the thing people should be aware of when it comes to the 24/7 news networks (CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, all of 'em!) 

They are motivated by two things: 

1) Ratings (and by extension, money) 
2) Their own biased ideologically motivated agendas. 

MSNBC will exploit any situation to push whatever progressive narrative they want to push. The more controversial, the more they can play it up and manipulate it for ratings while also getting the message they want out there. 

Fox News is the other side of the same coin. They will also sensationalize whatever controversy comes their way because of ratings, but they also push their own bias narratives while doing so. 

What you mentioned about the Trump conference is a perfect example of that. If MSNBC or CNN can take one or two statements to use as sound bytes to paint him as a racist, they'll do it! And hey, Fox News did it to Obama when he was in office, so this is just how it is regardless of who is in office. 

And hey, lets remove presidents from the mix. Look at how all the news stations covered the Benoit Murder-Suicide and the Treyvon Martin incident. Totally sensationalist media BS at its finest. In the Benoit case, it was a bunch of people beating a dead horse, and passing horrible assertions about an artform they did not understand. I honest to God saw Bill O'Riley say that Benoit's infamous match with Sabu was an example that he was crazy a long time ago, when anyone with two working eyes could see that what happened in that match was an accident. Didn't matter! Its sexier and more controversial if we twist something unfortunate, but accidental, to make it look like he's been a psychopath for years!

And the way MSNBC covered the Martin tragedy was downright shameful. It was like they were trying to incite a race war. They edited Zimmerman's 911 call to make it sound as racist as possible, and the way they talked about him, you'd have thought he was so white, he was practically a member of the Arian race. Turns out his mother was from Peru and he even has some African ancestry as well. But no no, lets ignore that. He's ****** and he is evil!


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

RapShepard said:


> p*eople are hilarious, just say you don't give a fuck because it doesn't affect you.* Because I find it hard to believe most of you can't see the issues with this. You have a bunch of white people with torches angrily marching because somebody is getting rid of a Confederate statue. That sentence alone should paint a fucking picture of what's up and what's wrong. Yes we have freedom of speech name freedom of protest. But people angrily protesting in favor of keeping the statue of a racist, slave owning, traitor should be a simple matter of by law you can do this. But as people we can condemn you issue. I mean what reason could you give for this protest that doesn't come off as hateful
> 
> Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk


The people on here you are referring to are called white sympathizers.

White sympathizers: These people will tell you that they are not racist. They are not a white supremacist, and they are not a white nationalist. They may even disagree with many of the philosophies of white supremacy and white nationalism because it’s too extreme for their political viewpoints. However, they are quick to criminalize and condemn such movements as Black Lives Matter and they may associate random black people with BLM who aren’t associated with them in an effort to criminalize black people completely. They take the few bad people in the group, and use it to mislabel, mischaracterize, condemn and criminalize the entire group. (This same exact thing happened to the black panthers or other minorities in general such as Hispanics and Muslims) They may look for isolated incidents to justify their anti-BLM view while ignoring the numerous peaceful BLM moments. They are quick to bring up black on black crime during social discussion, or quick to bring up anything that can discredit an individual black person if they make a stand for social progress that normally involves confronting white supremacy. In their eyes, that person is some kind of racist or radical. 

When it comes to discussing white privilege, a good portion of them will flat out tell you that white privilege doesn’t exist or they will try to downplay it. When you confront them about their bigotry or ignorance, they will downplay it or they will tell you, “I have a black friend I’m not racist”. They will also unite with white nationalist and white supremacist for a common cause, such as Donald Trump’s election. When questioned about the rise in hate crimes since Trump’s election, they will dismiss it as fake news, or bring up black on white hate crimes in order to spin the topic. If they see topics that mentions such phrases as “black power” and “black excellence” they will complain that if they said “***********” or white excellence” it would be taken as racism and accuse black people and society of having a double standard with zero understanding of why “black power” and “black excellence” are known phrases. They are normally racially tone deaf, racially insensitive, unable to see basic race related moral principles from a minority point of view and not comfortable when race issues involving white supremacy are aggressively discussed. 

The overall goal of the white sympathizer is to play victim, rarely admit to any wrong doing from white people and be quick to criminalize and discredit minority social movements or minorities in general such as Hispanics and Muslims. If they admit to wrong doing from white supremacists or white nationalists, they are quick to bring up “the other side” in order to change the topic from its true focus. These are the same people who will then in turn shit on the “intolerant left” without bringing up the other side. They may suggest that minorities are more racist than white people and suggest that the rise in racial tension is due to minorities. They will also get mad at movies for having black actors in traditional white character roles, and accuse the “liberal” media or society of trying too hard to fight inequality, or complain that they are trying to appeal to blacks, or flat out complain about the black actor taking the white character role and that it somehow ruins the movie. They may not be an actual racist such as their white nationalist and white supremacist friends, but they hold white supremacist traits which are to discredit entire minority groups and minority social groups in order to point the finger elsewhere. An important thing to note here is that many conservative minorities have this same exact white sympathizer ideology and some don’t realize they are just doing white supremacist bidding.


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

RapShepard said:


> people are hilarious, just say you don't give a fuck because it doesn't affect you. Because I find it hard to believe most of you can't see the issues with this. You have a bunch of white people with torches angrily marching because somebody is getting rid of a Confederate statue. That sentence alone should paint a fucking picture of what's up and what's wrong. Yes we have freedom of speech name freedom of protest. But people angrily protesting in favor of keeping the statue of a racist, slave owning, traitor should be a simple matter of by law you can do this. But as people we can condemn you issue. I mean what reason could you give for this protest that doesn't come off as hateful
> 
> Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk


You mean, people of X identity and Y gender that are regularly both holistically and individually blamed for circumstances, beliefs, and actions of people many generations before them, aren't affected? :hmm:

You do realise the language and finger-pointing you choose to do, proves their points, right? 



Headliner said:


> The people on here you are referring to are called white sympathizers.
> 
> White sympathizers: *These people will tell you that they are not racist. They are not a white supremacist, and they are not a white nationalist. They may even disagree with many of the philosophies of white supremacy and white nationalism because it’s too extreme for their political viewpoints. However, they are quick to criminalize and condemn such movements as Black Lives Matter and they may associate random black people with BLM who aren’t associated with them in an effort to criminalize black people completely*.


Name names.



Headliner said:


> *They are quick to bring up black on black crime during social discussion,* or quick to bring up anything that can discredit an individual black person if they make a stand for *social progress* that normally involves confronting white supremacy. In their eyes, that person is some kind of racist or radical.


Can you defend what you call 'social progress' by destroying meritocracy and replacing it with identity politics?



Headliner said:


> When it comes to discussing* white privilege*, a good portion of them will flat out tell you that white privilege doesn’t exist or they will try to downplay it.


Define white privilege.



Headliner said:


> “I have a black friend I’m not racist”.


Why is this statement such a problem exactly? Because it essentially disproves your point?
If it doesn't, how does it not?



Headliner said:


> They will also unite with white nationalist and white supremacist for a common cause, such as Donald Trump’s election.


Yes people of all types vote for either one of the two parties. There are people here who voted for Hillary, against Trump, because of his stance on environment, usually we don't say those types of people sympathise with race-politic extremists based on that fact alone though. Why do you?



Headliner said:


> If they see topics that mentions such phrases as “black power” and “black excellence” they will complain that if they said “***********” or white excellence” it would be taken as racism and accuse black people and society of having a double standard with zero understanding of why “black power” and “black excellence” are known phrases.


It is a double standard, the connotations are irrelevant, the language is the exact same. But when the connotations are relevant, please defend both your and others' calling of blacks who disagree with you as "*****"?



Headliner said:


> The overall goal of the white sympathizer is to play victim, *rarely admit to any wrong doing from white people*


Which as we all know is why no one is talking about the white supremacy etc displayed in Charlottesville.

Come on, Trump disavowed this shit. Even in the recent presser the media etc are still trying to spin, he disavowed it. But since he didn't disavow ONLY it, that must make him a so-called WHITE SYMPATHISER in the view of the propagandised liberals?



Headliner said:


> *“liberal” media or society of trying too hard to fight inequality*


By this you mean "postmodernist ideologues changing the structure of a successful society", right? 

When will you realise you've been indoctrinated?


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Oxidamus said:


> You mean, people of X identity and Y gender that are regularly both holistically and individually blamed for circumstances, beliefs, and actions of people many generations before them, aren't affected? :hmm:
> 
> You do realise the language and finger-pointing you choose to do, proves their points, right?
> 
> ...


None of the shit you're saying has any relevance. You're just challenging just to challenge.


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Headliner said:


> None of the shit you're saying has any relevance. You're just challenging just to challenge.


You know you're wrong and your ideology is indefensible. It's relevant when you want to label people negatively based on your perceptions but it's not relevant when you're asked to define them.


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Just as a quick observation. Is it not supposed to be the default setting for a human being to be "anti-fascist?" If you're not "anti" fascist, what are you exactly? Pro-fascist? Indifferent to fascism? Fascist? Just something I find interesting, many so called "Right wingers" seem more interested in being "anti liberal" than "anti fascist" which is a little odd to me. Fair enough to disagree with the politics but i struggle to see how "liberals" (who gave us most of our workers rights in the UK, our healthcare etc) can remotely be as bad as "fascists" in anybody's mind. In my mind the left, right, centrists and everyone else should be anti-fascist. The most ridiculous thing for me are so-called "patriots" especially here in the UK who revere Hitler, Nazism/Fascism and their beliefs. Sorry, you can't be a "British Patriot" and a Nazi/Fascist at the same time, it's an oxymoron. As far as I can see there are 2 types of people in the world regardless of political affiliation. Those who are against fascism, and the rest. The rest would appear to include everybody who attempts to deflect, distract or explain away as soon as the topic of fascism comes up. If your response to fascism is a criticism of something else, you're not somebody I'd remotely consider anything but a waste of human matter.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Oxidamus said:


> You know you're wrong and your ideology is indefensible. It's relevant when you want to label people negatively based on your perceptions but it's not relevant when you're asked to define them.


It has nothing to do with my perceptions and everything to do with their behavior that is easy to point out. Stop looking for attention plz.


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

What jumps out is the false equivalencies. White supremacist and black pride are not the same, nor are fascism and anti-fascism. Either the person making such arguments underestimates the opposition's intelligence or the intelligence of his/her intended audience of potential ideological converts. That, or they themselves fall into one of two categories: easily influenced by rhetoric or so intellectual that they detach from reality in observing human behavior, reducing it to sides and opinions and not right-versus-wrong actions with consequences. 

I am done with being polite. There's no middle ground to meet upon with these issues. With respect to the growing far-right hijacking of conservatism, and lack of conversation on the topic that prompted this thread's creation, there is an obvious moral right and wrong. Neo-nazi is wrong. There is no justification, no context, no mitigating factor. No matter what Trump says, there are no "nice people" marching alongside chanting, torch-carrying racists. Anyone still arguing for dual responsibility in Charlottesville is either supporting the white nationalism ideals, ignoring the obvious that challenges their beliefs or playing the contrarian for attention.


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Headliner said:


> It has nothing to do with my perceptions and everything to do with their behavior that is easy to point out. Stop looking for attention plz.


"I'm not trolling" - The self-professed 'dumpster fire chaotic admin'.
Do you actually care about equality or are you just an opportunist using racial tension to troll on a forum? 



GothicBohemian said:


> What jumps out is the false equivalencies. White supremacist and black pride are not the same, nor are fascism and anti-fascism. Either the person making such arguments underestimates the opposition's intelligence or the intelligence of his/her intended audience of potential ideological converts. That, or they themselves fall into one of two categories: easily influenced by rhetoric or so intellectual that they detach from reality in observing human behavior, reducing it to sides and opinions and not right-versus-wrong actions with consequences.
> 
> I am done with being polite. There's no middle ground to meet upon with these issues. With respect to the growing far-right hijacking of conservatism, and lack of conversation on the topic that prompted this thread's creation, there is an obvious moral right and wrong. Neo-nazi is wrong. There is no justification, no context, no mitigating factor. No matter what Trump says, there are no "nice people" marching alongside chanting, torch-carrying racists. Anyone still arguing for dual responsibility in Charlottesville is either supporting the white nationalism ideals, ignoring the obvious that challenges their beliefs or playing the contrarian for attention.


I'll respond to this in more detail tomorrow if I remember, but this is an weird post. You talk about ideology, but say there's no meeting in the middle. This 'topic' is left ideology vs right ideology at its core and _the answer lies in the middle_.

Also what you call false equivalencies are misconstrued. No, white supremacy is not the same as black pride. I am quick to be sceptical of what people call white supremacy in this age, because in this ideologically driven world, simply being proud of being white and living in a western society can be considered "white supremacy". And surely that form of white pride; wherein you are simply proud to be a part of the most successful and inclusive society that has ever existed, is not some kind of "hate", is it?

As far as ANTIFA go, people don't have an issue with what ANTIFA stand for, at least it isn't the cause of outrage. It's obviously the bloody consistent violence and destruction of property. It's like everywhere they go, someone is pepper sprayed or smacked with a weapon. And a lot of the time they trash shit for the sake of it. Their opinions are just opinions, whether you like them or agree with them or not. I don't think I agree with them, but that isn't my problem, my problem is as outlined. I'm sure that's for most if not all.


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

I find it humorous a group that opposes Fascism employs Fascist tactics and propaganda to try and achieve it's goals.

It's also funny to "fight" for the people but want to silence everyone you disagree with.

It's even funnier when they toss around the words racism while they themselves act racist against those who won't fall in line.

I'd say at this point there is no difference between Fascists and Anti-Fascists anymore.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Oxidamus said:


> "I'm not trolling" - The self-professed 'dumpster fire chaotic admin'.
> Do you actually care about equality or are you just an opportunist using racial tension to troll on a forum?
> 
> 
> ...


Discussing the fight for equality means addressing topics that people are not comfortable discussing. Which is what I've been doing.


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## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

the whole country gets pissed about that one outbreak in Charlottesville, doesn't bat an eye when lefts are going around defacing public property for no reason. Someone needs to teach them some accountability


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## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

A black man, saying he wants to kill white people, especially white cops proceeds to kill cops.

No one asked for President Obama to speak out AND when he did, he not only did NOT denounce the act, he blamed it on white racism.

- Vic


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## Flair Flop (May 21, 2011)

It doesn't make a damn what ones original message may have been if they have strayed so far away from it that they are no longer even recognizable. When that original message becomes nothing more than a thin veil for supporters to use to justify bad behavior then it's not a damn bit different than a group that is completely upfront about why they do what they do.


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## P Thriller (Jan 6, 2016)

Honestly everyone is acting like children and I'm getting sick and tired of it. Left-Wing Violence, Right-Wing Violence. This incident was clearly instigated by a group of losers who have nothing better to do with their life but whine and complain. And now a young woman is dead because of their ridiculous behavior. Just like the Left-Wingers have been doing too. Both sides have acted like spoiled little children who can't bear to hear an opinion different than their without resorting to violence or complaining. 

It is the president's job to be a leader and call this what it is and Donald Trump didn't do that. Probably because these people are the only ones left that actually still plan on voting for Trump in 4 years. Obama did the same exact crap and wasn't the leader that we needed and poured more fuel on the flames.

But the biggest culprit in all of this is the media who legitimizes these people. That little group of losers have NO power and are very small, yet now all you hear all over the media is how dangerous Right Wing extremism is and how dangerous this group is. Well news flash, they aren't dangerous. They are too insignificant to be dangerous and if we would ignore them like we should they will have no impact whatsoever on our lives. But the left wing media just wait around and hope to god that a right wing white male is responsible that way they can talk for weeks about how violent and horrible and racist white men are. 

STOP DEFINING PEOPLE BY WHAT GROUP THEY "BELONG" TO!!!!

Muslims are great people and a small percentage of them do bad things
Blacks are great people and a small percentage of them do bad things
Whites are great people and a small percentage of them do bad things

This is not a team sport. We are an entire country made up of completely unique individuals and we need to stop playing this game of blaming an entire group every single time any act of violence is committed. 

And honestly if you want to blame a "group" for all of violence that is happening in this country, I have the one group you can blame...and I belong in this group:

MEN!!!

Women grow up in the same environment, have the same struggles (if not more), have the same access to guns etc. Yet how many of these acts of violence are carried out by women? What is it about men that we can't seem to handle people having different opinions than us without acting like a bunch of A'holes and going around and being violent. So if you really want to single out a group and blame them for all of the violence, single out men.


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## Stephen90 (Mar 31, 2015)

TripleG said:


> Oh I stopped trusting the American news media almost two decades ago. They're a joke.
> 
> Here's the thing people should be aware of when it comes to the 24/7 news networks (CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, all of 'em!)
> 
> ...


Hilariously all 3 of them stopped talking about Beniot when it was revealed that he had the brain of an 85 year old Alzheimer's patient. Instead of their roid rage theories.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

@Headliner *They're in here defending this guy's "right" to protest while saying Black Lives Matter is a problem*:mj4



Miss Sally said:


> I find it humorous a group that opposes Fascism employs Fascist tactics and propaganda to try and achieve it's goals.
> 
> It's also funny to "fight" for the people but want to silence everyone you disagree with.
> 
> ...


*One group doesn't want to be oppressed for their skin color. The other wants to defend their "right" to oppress people because of their skin color. If you can't see the difference, you're part of the problem.*


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## gsm1988 (Nov 20, 2012)

Legit BOSS said:


> *Yes, that's exactly it. You will never see me flaming a guy like Deso. I only have a problem with hypocrites, racists, and hypocrites who enable the racists by regurgitating Trump's xenophobic rhetoric.*
> 
> 
> *Thank you.*


Will your girl's bosses ever disavow Trump?


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Vic Capri said:


> A black man, saying he wants to kill white people, especially white cops proceeds to kill cops.
> 
> No one asked for President Obama to speak out AND when he did, he not only did NOT denounce the act, he blamed it on white racism.
> 
> - Vic


So both Trump and Obama are total asshats, good to know.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Vic Capri said:


> A black man, saying he wants to kill white people, especially white cops proceeds to kill cops.
> 
> No one asked for President Obama to speak out AND when he did, he not only did NOT denounce the act, he blamed it on white racism.
> 
> - Vic


Link the video.


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## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

I'm sure you can find it since you're The Defender Of All Things Anti-White.

- Vic


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## Stephen90 (Mar 31, 2015)

RavishingRickRules said:


> So both Trump and Obama are total asshats, good to know.


Well Obama is a corporate sellout.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Vic Capri said:


> I'm sure you can find it since you're The Defender Of All Things Anti-White.
> 
> - Vic


No, I am the defender against white sympathizers and ignorance.

I already seen the video multiple times and I also seen his speech before the funeral multiple times. I just wanted to see if you would post it and sink yourself further.

He condemned the attack and didn't "blame white racism." He was saying it was an act of racial hatred from the black person toward the police officers. Something people like you who are pro police should be praising. He then questioned if the racial divides would ever heal.

Maybe if you watched other stuff besides Fox News and Brietbart you wouldn't be so whitewashed and brainwashed. How embarrassing.


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## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

Headliner said:


> No, I am the defender against white sympathizers and ignorance.
> 
> I already seen the video multiple times and I also seen his speech before the funeral multiple times. I just wanted to see if you would post it and sink yourself further.
> 
> ...


Well the BLM did shut down an interstate in Charlotte during that whole protest. Peaceful protests :ha :liquor


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

krtgolfing said:


> Well the BLM did shut down an interstate in Charlotte during that whole protest. Peaceful protests :ha :liquor


And?


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## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

Headliner said:


> And?


Could of possibly had people miss work/ an ambulance had someone that might of been hurt from the riots. Stop trying to act like BLM is doing so much good for people. The neo-nazi's can fuck off as well.


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## Stephen90 (Mar 31, 2015)

I have a feeling that this thread would have been closed had the OP not been an administer.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

krtgolfing said:


> Could of possibly had people miss work/ an ambulance had someone that might of been hurt from the riots. Stop trying to act like BLM is doing so much good for people. The neo-nazi's can fuck off as well.


Racial tension in black people that has built for centuries will cause them to do stuff like that. People should have seen it coming. Look at history. Should they have done it somewhere else? Sure. 4 people were arrested and all of them were idiots at an otherwise peaceful for the most part.

Every social movement group has a few idiots that go a little too far and I rightfully condemn them. However unlike white sympathizers, I don't use the very few bad apples to demonize and mislabel the entire group because I recognize the group's true intention, purpose and message.

Got anything else?


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## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

Headliner said:


> Racial tension in black people that has built for centuries will cause them to do stuff like that. People should have seen it coming. Look at history. Should they have done it somewhere else? Sure. 4 people were arrested and all of them were idiots at an otherwise peaceful for the most part.
> 
> Every social movement group has a few idiots that go a little too far and I rightfully condemn them. However unlike white sympathizers, I don't use the very few bad apples to demonize and mislabel the entire group because I recognize the group's true intention, purpose and message.
> 
> Got anything else?


I got plenty but I am pretty sure you will just ignore it like you have been to myself and plenty of others and just call everyone whose opinion you disagree with a "white sympathizer".


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## Stephen90 (Mar 31, 2015)

Headliner said:


> Racial tension in black people that has built for centuries will cause them to do stuff like that. People should have seen it coming. Look at history. Should they have done it somewhere else? Sure. 4 people were arrested and all of them were idiots at an otherwise peaceful for the most part.
> 
> Every social movement group has a few idiots that go a little too far and I rightfully condemn them. However unlike white sympathizers, I don't use the very few bad apples to demonize and mislabel the entire group because I recognize the group's true intention, purpose and message.
> 
> Got anything else?


You do know that hands up don't shoot was a lie right? That's one of BLM biggest slogans. Proving that BLM is a joke and not to be taking seriously.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

krtgolfing said:


> I got plenty but I am pretty sure you will just ignore it like you have been to myself and plenty of others and just call everyone whose opinion you disagree with a "white sympathizer".


If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, its not a chicken.


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## TheNightmanCometh (Feb 1, 2017)

Legit BOSS said:


> @Headliner *They're in here defending this guy's "right" to protest while saying Black Lives Matter is a problem*:mj4
> 
> 
> 
> *One group doesn't want to be oppressed for their skin color. The other wants to defend their "right" to oppress people because of their skin color. If you can't see the difference, you're part of the problem.*


Who are "the other"?


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Stephen90 said:


> You do know that hands up don't shoot was a lie right? That's one of BLM biggest slogans. Proving that BLM is a joke and not to be taking seriously.


Its a lie how? Like black people haven't been killed while either their hands was up or while they weren't showing resistance that justified being killed?


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## TheNightmanCometh (Feb 1, 2017)

Headliner said:


> If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, its not a chicken.


Is there a place in your mind where someone can argue against your points and not be a "white sympathizer"?


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## Stephen90 (Mar 31, 2015)

Headliner said:


> Its a lie how? Like black people haven't been killed while either their hands was up or while they weren't showing resistance that justified being killed?


Because it comes from the Michael Brown case.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

TheNightmanCometh said:


> Is there a place in your mind where someone can argue against your points and not be a "white sympathizer"?


Depends on the subject.


----------



## Vox Machina (May 22, 2014)

GothicBohemian said:


> What jumps out is the false equivalencies. White supremacist and black pride are not the same, nor are fascism and anti-fascism. Either the person making such arguments underestimates the opposition's intelligence or the intelligence of his/her intended audience of potential ideological converts. That, or they themselves fall into one of two categories: easily influenced by rhetoric or so intellectual that they detach from reality in observing human behavior, reducing it to sides and opinions and not right-versus-wrong actions with consequences.
> 
> I am done with being polite. There's no middle ground to meet upon with these issues. With respect to the growing far-right hijacking of conservatism, and lack of conversation on the topic that prompted this thread's creation, there is an obvious moral right and wrong. Neo-nazi is wrong. There is no justification, no context, no mitigating factor. No matter what Trump says, there are no "nice people" marching alongside chanting, torch-carrying racists. Anyone still arguing for dual responsibility in Charlottesville is either supporting the white nationalism ideals, ignoring the obvious that challenges their beliefs or playing the contrarian for attention.


There's nothing more to add, really.

Quoting so people can see this great post again.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Stephen90 said:


> Because it comes from the Michael Brown case.


People can draw whatever conclusions they want from the case but the phrase is something that has historically be apart of our relations with the police for decades.


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## Stormbringer (May 3, 2008)

Stephen90 said:


> You do know that hands up don't shoot was a lie right? That's one of BLM biggest slogans. Proving that BLM is a joke and not to be taking seriously.


That slogan has come to mean so much more though.










http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/opinions/shooting-man-lying-down-opinion-david-perry/index.html

The black guy was trying to get the white guy, who's mentally challenged, back into the adult daycare that he wandered away from. The white guy was playing with his toy fire truck in the middle of the street and the cops were called. The scene was incorrectly reported as a man acting crazy. When the cops showed up, they immediately went into shoot first mode. The black guy realized the situation and layed down as pictured.

So what did the cop do when the black guy layed down on the ground? He pulled out his AR-15 long range assault rifle and shot the man with his hands up!

"WHY?! Why did you shoot me?!" Asked an innocent man bleeding on the ground.

"I don't know," said one of the worst people ever.

Hands Up. Don't Shoot. THAT is why it exists.


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## Stephen90 (Mar 31, 2015)

DX-Superkick said:


> That slogan has come to mean so much more though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is real police brutality. However it still came from the Michael Brown case.


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## Stormbringer (May 3, 2008)

Stephen90 said:


> This is real police brutality. However it still came from the Michael Brown case.


Are you intentionally missing the point?

Slogans can be applied in situations were they fit. No matter the origin of a slogan, if it's relevant to the situation at hand, it's applicable. If you don't agree with that, we have no more to discuss with each other. If you need the "last word," you're welcomed to it. I won't quote you back.


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## TheNightmanCometh (Feb 1, 2017)

Headliner said:


> Depends on the subject.


What are some of the subjects you feel that if someone counters your opinion they're "white sympathizers"?


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## TheNightmanCometh (Feb 1, 2017)

DX-Superkick said:


> Are you intentionally missing the point?
> 
> Slogans can be applied in situations were they fit. No matter the origin of a slogan, if it's relevant to the situation at hand, it's applicable. If you don't agree with that, we have no more to discuss with each other. If you need the "last word," you're welcomed to it. I won't quote you back.


I think we should always fight against individual evils in the world, it is when that evil is applied to entire groups is where I begin to have a problem. BLM doesn't argue that there are cops doing bad things, they're arguing that all cops are bad. At least that's what my confirmation bias tells me.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

TheNightmanCometh said:


> What are some of the subjects you feel that if someone counters your opinion they're "white sympathizers"?


Did you read my definition of white sympathizer?


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## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

Another thing about these statues is that you do not have to visit them if they offend you. What is next in this world? Is iTunes going to remove the Rammstein song pussy or other women bashing songs from the library because it offends women? Solution... Don't listen to the damn song. People just want something to bitch about nowadays it seems.


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## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

TheNightmanCometh said:


> What are some of the subjects you feel that if someone counters your opinion they're "white sympathizers"?


I think it is his nice way to call someone a racist.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

krtgolfing said:


> I think it is his nice way to call someone a racist.


Yeah i'd go as far to call White Sympathizers racist. There inaction is injustice as well. It also shapes how they vote and interact


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## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

KingCosmos said:


> Yeah i'd go as far to call White Sympathizers racist. There inaction is injustice as well. It also shapes how they vote and interact


Well the democrats voted Hilary so :ha Guess anyone who doesn't agree with you and Headliner are racists. I thought y'all were supposed to be the more understanding party. I guess if the shoe fits. :liquor Just pathetic.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

krtgolfing said:


> Well the democrats voted Hilary so :ha Guess anyone who doesn't agree with you and Headliner are racists. I thought y'all were supposed to be the more understanding party. I guess if the shoe fits. :liquor Just pathetic.


Yeah Hilary is a known racist too. Your point? Idiotic assumptions from Trumps supporters. Keep being happy you support a KNOWN racist


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## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

KingCosmos said:


> Yeah Hilary is a known racist too. Your point? Idiotic assumptions from Trumps supporters


You basically just called any Trump supppoter a racists. Yet people wonder why this country is going to shit. Your shallowness is showing. Clearly a racist towards the white population.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

krtgolfing said:


> You basically just called any Trump supppoter a racists. Yet people wonder why this country is going to shit. Your shallowness is showing. Clearly a racist towards the white population.


I'm not calling ALL Trump supporters racist if you honestly voted for him without knowing he was a racist(Father arrested at KKK rally, Housing discrimination which is undeniable racism, calling for the execution of the innocent Central park 5 EVEN AFTER they are proven Innocent via DNA, Calling out a Judge's heritage continues attacks on Muslims and Mexicans. Starting his political career on a Birtherism attack on Obama which he had NO proof for) then fine you were ignorant in these things and I'm sorry you didn't know. But if people are TELLING you these things and you pussyfoot "oh well he still not racist" then i think you need to take a look in the mirror and really understand what you are defending. Are you ignorant of those things i mentioned or do you ignore them? Or did you know them and still support Trump because deep down you don't give a damn you support a White-supremacist-in-chief


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## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Dinesh D'Souza said:


> If @realDonaldTrump is a Nazi for not calling out Nazis, was Obama an Islamic terrorist for not calling out Islamic terrorists?


- Vic


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## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

KingCosmos said:


> I'm not calling ALL Trump supporters racist if you honestly voted for him without knowing he was a racist(Father arrested at KKK rally, Housing discrimination which is undeniable racism, calling for the execution of the innocent Central park 5 EVEN AFTER they war proven Innocent via DNA, Calling out a Judge's heritage) then fine you were ignorant in these things and I'm sorry you didn't know. But if people are TELLING you these things and you pussyfoot "oh well he still not racist" then i think you need to take a look in the mirror and really understand what you are defending. Are you ignorant of those things i mentioned our do you ignore them? Or did you know them and still support Trump because deep down you don't give a damn you support a White-supremacist-in-chief


And Hilary had a clean history? Lol. I would of voted Bernie if he would of won the democratic vote. Keep having your pity party while I enjoy some delicious red wine with dinner.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

krtgolfing said:


> And Hilary had a clean history? Lol. I would of voted Bernie if he would of won the democratic vote. Keep having your pity party while I enjoy some delicious red wine with dinner.


Did i say Hilary had a clean history? I don't give a damn about her. I know about her connections to well known racist and her exploits of Haiti. My point is you just deflected to Hilary when i was talking about Trump . Are you going to admit he is a racist or not and that you support him, just be honest. Admit you support a racist. I'm not going to condemn you but just admit it. If we can't even be honest about the PRESIDENT of the country and hold him accountable then that is as Trump would say sad


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## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

KingCosmos said:


> Did i say Hilary had a clean history? I don't give a damn about her. I know about her connections to well known racist and her exploits of Haiti. My point is you just deflected to Hilary when i was talking about Trump . Are you going to admit he is a racist or not and that you support him, just be honest.


I hope everyone knew he was a racist and a sexist person. If not they shouldn't be allowed to vote. I wonder how many people are still complaining yet did not vote. Looking at you Mr Kaepernick. And yes Neo Nazis are just a terrible organization that needs to fuck off. I mean seriously why is the color of another persons skin make them less of a person. There is plenty of sick individuals of all races. Then with the killings today in Barcelona just shows the world is in sad shape.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

krtgolfing said:


> I hope everyone knew he was a racist and a sexist person. If not they shouldn't be allowed to vote. I wonder how many people are still complaining yet did not vote. Looking at you Mr Kaepernick. And yes Neo Nazis are just a terrible organization that needs to fuck off. I mean seriously why is the color of another persons skin make them less of a person. There is plenty of sick individuals of all races. Then with the killings today in Barcelona just shows the world is in sad shape.


THANK YOU, Jeez that's all i want out of people is to admit he is racist why is that so hard? And why do people get mad when people call him a racist? People are so damn scared of having slightly racist views but that doesn't mean you are a full blown KKK member.There are subtle things maybe people can work on , you voted for a racist. Does that mean you are a racist ....NO but it certainly understandable if people are cautionary of you. If we can't even admit the issue then how are we going to fix the problem Call the president out on his actions don't coddle


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## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Vic Capri said:


> - Vic


I am starting to think the world would be a better place for you if every person who is not the side of Trump or conservatives lost the right to speak or maybe were push out of the country all together. I could very well be an asshole for saying that.


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## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

KingCosmos said:


> THANK YOU, Jeez that's all i want out of people is to admit he is racist why is that so hard? And why do people get mad when people call him a racist? People are so self righteous, you voted for a racist. Does that mean you are a racist ....NO but it certainly understandable if people are cautionary of you. If we can't even admit the issue then how are we going to fix the problem Call the president out on his actions don't coddle


If people don't admit he's a racist and sexist then they must be one themselves. I know who I voted for. Didn't like either candidate one bit.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

krtgolfing said:


> If people don't admit he's a racist and sexist then they must be one themselves. I know who I voted for. Didn't like either candidate one bit.


And i have no problem with that. At that point you voted for who you thought was more suitable. But there are a lot of people out there that outright deny he is racist. Both Candidate weren't exactly moral paragons. When we see future actions from Trump that exhibit racism he needs to be held accountable. Now we need to calm down on calling out a lot of stuff out because when Trump actually exhibits something racist worth looking at(Which i think he did this past week i'm sure some people don't) it muddies the waters and people began justifying it because they are already used to justifying other frivolous claims


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Legit BOSS said:


> @Headliner *They're in here defending this guy's "right" to protest while saying Black Lives Matter is a problem*:mj4
> 
> 
> 
> *One group doesn't want to be oppressed for their skin color. The other wants to defend their "right" to oppress people because of their skin color. If you can't see the difference, you're part of the problem.*


Since when is Antifa oppressed for their skin color? They're mostly made up of white morons.


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## Steve Black Man (Nov 28, 2015)

Miss Sally said:


> Since when is Antifa oppressed for their skin color? They're mostly made up of white morons.


Indeed. 

I find it equally amusing and horrifying that Antifa's antics are only strengthening and emboldening those that they're "supposedly" fighting against- that being the far right (neo-nazis, white nationalists, etc...)

Communists back in the late 20's/early 30's were doing the same thing with the Nazis back when the Nazis were just a bunch of assholes gathering in beer halls.

How'd that turn out?

Like you said- morons.


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Sitting here waiting for the racist left-wingers in this thread to stop cherry-picking the posts they respond to. :jim


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

GothicBohemian said:


> What jumps out is the false equivalencies. White supremacist and black pride are not the same, nor are fascism and anti-fascism. Either the person making such arguments underestimates the opposition's intelligence or the intelligence of his/her intended audience of potential ideological converts. That, or they themselves fall into one of two categories: easily influenced by rhetoric or so intellectual that they detach from reality in observing human behavior, reducing it to sides and opinions and not right-versus-wrong actions with consequences.
> 
> I am done with being polite. There's no middle ground to meet upon with these issues. With respect to the growing far-right hijacking of conservatism, and lack of conversation on the topic that prompted this thread's creation, there is an obvious moral right and wrong. Neo-nazi is wrong. There is no justification, no context, no mitigating factor. No matter what Trump says, there are no "nice people" marching alongside chanting, torch-carrying racists. Anyone still arguing for dual responsibility in Charlottesville is either supporting the white nationalism ideals, ignoring the obvious that challenges their beliefs or playing the contrarian for attention.





Sol Katti said:


> There's nothing more to add, really.
> 
> Quoting so people can see this great post again.


The problem with this is that, with all due respect, it is simply inaccurate. 

A great many of the most heinous atrocities of the twentieth century were carried out in the name of "anti-fascism." 

But for one obvious example, the reign of terror in Spain by those who called themselves republicans and anti-fascists, and who were, by and large, communists. A month after the 1931 elections, and the abdication of the king who tremulously held on to power in Alfonso XIII, resulting in a major victory for the Spanish Republicans, myriad squads of self-professed republicans and anti-fascists began burning Catholic churches to the ground. Traditional schools and community centers were likewise put to the torch. Communists were sufficiently prudent to recognize that were the Catholic Church of Spain grievously wounded and finally discarded, everything which had bound the Spanish nation together for centuries would unravel. Materialistic communism would provide the ideological framework by which the vacuum from the Catholic Church's destruction would be filled as several of the republican ringleaders admitted. The government banned nuns and monks from teaching children any longer, and all crucifixes were disallowed from entering school grounds and were actively kept out of public view in almost all instances. Alexander Orlov, who had been one of Stalin's most significant personal advisers, oversaw the drastic reconfiguration of Spanish society. The new Spanish constitution targeted the family, especially the role parents played in the shaping of the lives of their children, and fundamentally made the government a mass social engineering enterprise. 

As U.S. representative of Spain's University of Navarra, Ismael Virto, noted, "It was just like the French Revolution or the Soviet Union, but it was Spain in the summer of 1936. These militias--the Republican side--took regular people from their homes and took them to the jails or to the cemeteries and just shot them. It was totally lawless." Over 6,800 Catholic clergy were exterminated, among them 13 bishops, over 2,360 monks and friars, 4,172 diocesan priests and seminarians, and 283 nuns. 

Obviously the majority of the members of "antifa" will not be going around committing atrocities such as these against anyone, but we are witnessing an ever-escalating threat of violence from same, as we saw on Donald Trump's inauguration day. Now in Memphis, Tennessee, where "anti-fascist," "anti-racist" lunatics have become potential grave-robbers by violently attempting to dig up the remains of Confederate Lieutenant General Nathan Bedford Forrest, or the mad mob pulling down the statue in Durham, North Carolina, or the countless instances of violent "anti-fascist" mobs endeavoring to do nothing less than physically assault the likes of the milquetoast Charles Murray, the clever if not especially deep neocon Ben Shapiro, provocateurs who are despised by the "alt-right" and who generally loathe members of the "alt-right" like Milo Yiannopoulos and a host of others who happen to sit on the political spectrum to the right of Hillary Clinton. Even self-declared left-wingers are frequently attacked like Evergreen State professor Bret Weinstein, who's been tarred as a "racist" by antifa members who have sought to attack him physically for reasons that remain inexplicable. 

What is true is that neo-nazis are indeed completely wrong and vile, as are antifa. They are each a promulgation of pernicious, soul-sucking ideology that are sadly each a part of our modern world, brimming as it is with dominant philosophies and ideologies that attack everything decent and worthwhile, generally squashing human beings in the name of "humanity." In a true sense, speaking personally, I am more _radical_ (bringing it back to its Latin root of _radix_, to mean the base or origin of something) than antifa for, quoting myself earlier in this thread, I recognize that the U.S. government meets the standard and historical definition of being a fascist state: 



DesolationRow said:


> Rose Wilder Lane pointedly observed that FDR fought fascism abroad while fostering its rise at home.


A corporatist mixed economy-managing state indeed. And while the U.S. fortunately isn't Franco's Spain--the fascists were mighty vengeful and repressive following the _Terror Rojo_--or Hitler's Germany, it still bails out the connected at the expense of the population to keep the system propped up.

As a sobering thought, while Trump's statement was, as usual, about as articulate as Baron Christian de Neuvillette, but while politically it was a foolish point to make, "nice people" exist in all ideological and social movements, even the wickedest. The Nazis created a society in which mass murder of those deemed "inferior" was not only the norm but celebrated, but we make a mistake when we reduce the mass other to orc-like creatures. Islam has represented a threat to the West for the better part of a millennium-and-a-half but even if a civilizational war were to break out once again, it would always be prudent to retain some semblance of empathy. Most Stalinist butchers and most Hitlerian murderers were not born monsters but became so, chiefly by believing themselves politically vindicated. Ultimately, any system which rejects the Aristotelian precept that the highest form of justice is friendship, or which attempts to make the incidental ("***********!") into some recipe to follow in living one's life, should be flatly discouraged. And so yes the antifa and the neo-nazis, or the neo-nazis and the antifa, the purported "fascists" and purported "anti-fascists" in all too many instances--though I incidentally count myself among their actual level-headed number--as well as nationalists at large should be given the rhetorical thumbs down.


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

DesolationRow said:


> Obviously the majority of the members of "antifa" will not be going around committing atrocities such as these against anyone, but we are witnessing an ever-escalating threat of violence from same, as we saw on Donald Trump's inauguration day. Now in Memphis, Tennessee, where "anti-fascist," "anti-racist" lunatics have become potential grave-robbers by violently attempting to dig up the remains of Confederate Lieutenant General Nathan Bedford Forrest, or the mad mob pulling down the statue in Durham, North Carolina, or the countless instances of violent "anti-fascist" mobs endeavoring to do nothing less than physically assault the likes of the milquetoast Charles Murray, the clever if not especially deep neocon Ben Shapiro, provocateurs who are despised by the "alt-right" and who generally loathe members of the "alt-right" like Milo Yiannopoulos and a host of others who happen to sit on the political spectrum to the right of Hillary Clinton. Even self-declared left-wingers are frequently attacked like Evergreen State professor Bret Weinstein, who's been tarred as a "racist" by antifa members who have sought to attack him physically for reasons that remain inexplicable.
> 
> What is true is that neo-nazis are indeed completely wrong and vile, as are antifa. They are each a promulgation of pernicious, soul-sucking ideology that are sadly each a part of our modern world, brimming as it is with dominant philosophies and ideologies that attack everything decent and worthwhile, generally squashing human beings in the name of "humanity." In a true sense, speaking personally, I am more _radical_ (bringing it back to its Latin root of _radix_, to mean the base or origin of something) than antifa for, quoting myself earlier in this thread, I recognize that the U.S. government meets the standard and historical definition of being a fascist state:


What are your thoughts on the sudden use of the term 'false equivalency' - where people believe comparing Neo Nazis to violent communists is some kind of 'false equivalency'? Do you think it's because of the education system, failing to teach people how awful the communist regimes were (especially in the USSR and China), while they remind people each year the awful things committed by the Nazis?

Would like to know what you think.

P.S. No point in me responding any further to GB now I suppose. :side:


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## Art Vandaley (Jan 9, 2006)

Oxidamus said:


> What are your thoughts on the sudden use of the term 'false equivalency' - where people believe comparing Neo Nazis to violent communists is some kind of 'false equivalency'? Do you think it's because of the education system, failing to teach people how awful the communist regimes were (especially in the USSR and China), while they remind people each year the awful things committed by the Nazis?
> 
> Would like to know what you think.
> 
> P.S. No point in me responding any further to GB now I suppose. :side:


It's a false equivalency if you believe violence motivated by racism is worse than other violence.


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## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

The silver lining from Charlottesville is that it deescalated the North Korean issue. Maybe the out-crazy Kim Jong Un strategy is working. :lol


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Alkomesh2 said:


> It's a false equivalency if you believe violence motivated by racism is worse than other violence.


So the people making the false equivalencies are the ones complaining about false equivalencies then? :hmm:


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

krtgolfing said:


> You basically just called any Trump supppoter a racists. Yet people wonder why this country is going to shit. Your shallowness is showing. Clearly a racist towards the white population.


If someone defends white nationalist or the KKK they are racist.


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

RavishingRickRules said:


> Just as a quick observation. Is it not supposed to be the default setting for a human being to be "anti-fascist?"


Short answer:
The default setting is to learn, and we learn that fascism is bad, so yea. Pretty much.

Long answer:
It's 'default setting' to be taught, since 'default setting' would be childhood I assume.
Everyone has their own personality, which affects how they learn, but you aren't inherently for or against anything unless you're told to be. That personality factors in substantially but only after you're told what you're told. Some people believe things they're told that support their personal view without question. Some people still need to do their own research and educate themselves before they come to a conclusion. And some don't believe what they're told similarly to the first, because it _doesn't_ support their personal view.

What I'm explaining is pretty obvious but that's the basis of ideology and why things get to the point they're at now.



RavishingRickRules said:


> If you're not "anti" fascist, what are you exactly? Pro-fascist? Indifferent to fascism? Fascist? Just something I find interesting


Go back like a year and the word fascist was rarely uttered. Now it's used multiple times a day, and that happened basically overnight. People don't have the same knowledge of fascism as they do Nazism, or communism (which is debatable because a lot of communists aren't aware of communism either).

Unfortunately it has to be pointed out that most people probably ARE anti-fascist, but don't support the fucking communists who go by ANTIFA. Like I support LGBTQ etc rights but I don't support every step their movement want to make to cementing those rights. Does that mean that I don't support them? Of course not. I don't support all of their actions or methodology, but I support the end-goal. 



RavishingRickRules said:


> many so called "Right wingers" seem more interested in being "anti liberal" than "anti fascist" which is a little odd to me. Fair enough to disagree with the politics but i struggle to see how "liberals" (who gave us most of our workers rights in the UK, our healthcare etc) can remotely be as bad as "fascists" in anybody's mind.


I don't understand how you can think this, because the amount of so-called liberals in America is likely higher than 33%, of which there are a lot of extremists, socialists, communists, etc. Most conservatives - at least the popular talking ones - aren't exactly anti-liberal, they're anti-aspects-of-what-dictates-modern-liberalism. It's why people who self-identify as 'classical liberals', including others whose beliefs tend to fall that way (myself) are among some of the people so vehemently against the mainstream movement of liberalism. It outright supports communism. That's not what liberalism was decades ago.

Not only that, but it's simply opposing postmodernism - essentially what the vast majority of those moderate-to-far-left stand for. The movement that doesn't even question, but sets out to destroy the fabric of western society. How can you be wholeheartedly supportive of an entire ideology and movement that doesn't even care to create discussion in regards to what they deem 'bad'? They just label it 'bad' and go their merry way and try to fuck it up.

Back on the point of liberals likely being more than 33% of US population, even if it's much lower than what I assume it's *substantially* more than those who support fascism, clearly. So that would explain why people have a stronger dislike for modern liberalism than what you call fascism. One is controlling the way the country and everyone in it moves, and thinks, whereas the other is a literal fringe group that has fuck all control. FWIW I don't think anyone who is called a fascist by ANTIFA is actually a fascist.



RavishingRickRules said:


> In my mind the left, right, centrists and everyone else should be anti-fascist. The most ridiculous thing for me are so-called "patriots" especially here in the UK who revere Hitler, Nazism/Fascism and their beliefs. Sorry, you can't be a "British Patriot" and a Nazi/Fascist at the same time, it's an oxymoron. As far as I can see there are 2 types of people in the world regardless of political affiliation. Those who are against fascism, and the rest. The rest would appear to include everybody who attempts to deflect, distract or explain away as soon as the topic of fascism comes up. If your response to fascism is a criticism of something else, you're not somebody I'd remotely consider anything but a waste of human matter.


No lie, I'm having a bit of trouble responding to this because you're mostly right but there are small aspects where you're wrong simply because of how these labels get defined. It seems like semantics and such small things, but these small things are actually one of the biggest reasons why America is in this mess. And no one stops to challenge it.

I think a lot of what I typed above this covers it though...

The media as a whole is quick to group people with things they might accidentally or even slightly represent. e.g. Stefan Molyneux and Jordan Peterson both being called "alt-right" because... they... oppose (specifically left-wing in this case) ideology and have a primarily white male fanbase on the internet?
I don't even know why, especially in the case of Peterson. But there are hundreds more examples of intentional or unintentional mischaracterisation and you *need* to question it.

Like I made in another post, white nationalism today is about as loose a definition as possible. On the far extreme side it encompasses KKK and Nazi beliefs. On the lowest, most loose definition it encompasses pride of western-civilization, or even just simply supporting capitalism. How can you support the types who use what are potentially extremely damaging and disgusting belief systems, as a throwaway pejorative? The left has done this for so long. Look at the post above which was made while I typed this. If someone says "The west is the best" they are called a white nationalist - maybe even a white _supremacist_ - by mainstream media hitpieces today. And if you support the idea that western civilisation is the best, well, you're a bloody white nationalist too, and therefore, a racist.

Apply this to fascism.
1) Most people don't actually know what fascism is, apart from silencing/ignoring criticism and holding people down;
2) The word propped up so quickly in the social-scape;
3) Because of 1 & 2, the word is defined so loosely to the point where a persons *perception* of being held down or silenced is enough to call someone a fascist;
4) To say that definition is wrong is to prove their perception "right" (in the sense that their criticism is being silenced).

This type of circular thinking entraps people and is the game we are forced to play when combating postmodernism. No one wins.

Yes this is a ramble.


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## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

birthday_massacre said:


> If someone defends white nationalist or the KKK they are racist.


In what context? You may hate the ideology, but if these people are merely speaking then the right to speak should be defended and one should feel no shame even if they do not agree with the ideas.

Once a KKK person tries to act on the speech... then that is when the line is crossed. If it's just speech, they have every right to it. Little thing called the Bill of Rights defends that.

As for this specific situation... well, enough blame to go around. Fuck both groups for losing control and devolving into violence. Be better than that.


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## TheNightmanCometh (Feb 1, 2017)

Kabraxal said:


> In what context? You may hate the ideology, but if these people are merely speaking then the right to speak should be defended and one should feel no shame even if they do not agree with the ideas.
> 
> Once a KKK person tries to act on the speech... then that is when the line is crossed. If it's just speech, they have every right to it. Little thing called the Bill of Rights defends that.
> 
> As for this specific situation... well, enough blame to go around. Fuck both groups for losing control and devolving into violence. Be better than that.


BM doesn't have any context. He doesn't think that deeply.


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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

I guess the ACLU is racist then since they helped the neo nazis keep their permit to protest when the city tried to revoke it. They literally defended white nationalists.

Being a one-variable thinker must be a confusing life.


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## JustAName (Sep 17, 2012)

I'll easily admit I have not read everything in this thread, I just don't have the time and I also have like 60% of the forum on ignore so there is that. What I will say is that, freedom of speech is a literal thing, right? You're allowed to say whatever you want, key word being SAY, not do.

I much prefer an environment where I know people around me are completely brain dead and can act/react accordingly over people trying to hide who they really are, now THAT is what is scary. If you know who someone is, then you can also anticipate their actions, if you have no idea it can be like being hit with a nuclear bomb and there is a chance you can never recover from it.

I think people should be fucking happy all these morons use their freedom of speech, let me make that crystal clear, SPEECH, cause that gives you an idea who you are around at any time and who/what you're potentially dealing with. There is a reason people are way more prone to fear the unknown, rather than the known, regardless how horrible the known is compared to the unknown.

Problem arises when words turn into action, there is no such thing as freedom of action and I think that is where people misunderstand what freedom of speech is. Words are only words, they will never have a bigger impact on you, than you personally allow it too and that is solely based on your mental state and your ability to understand the bigger picture of what words actually are.

The only reason words can ever be stronger(in a negative sense) than a bomb is because people are weak mentally and emotionally and that is what causes conflict. The world's, not just the US, but the world's biggest problem is collective ignorance and refusal to go outside their own little bubble and see the real situation of the world and what causes humanity's what seems like endless ignorance and unwillingness to learn and adapt to logical, sensible knowledge about who we are, what we are, and most importantly how we function. Everyone at the point of birth are looking for the same thing, which is being accepted, but it's lost on us that acceptance comes from the inside. It's along the way in our experiences, that gets buried deep in our subconscious, because we are not able to deal with them or know how to, that we lose track of who we are cause we have no idea how to deal with this overwhelming sensation that life feels like at some point or another and the vast majority of us become scared of living, but hide it behind all kinds of masks. 

People are created equal and the thing that should determine your worth is not color, what you look like, what you wear, what you've done, but simply(trust me, I know it's not simple.. just look outside and see all the things people have their worth judged on that doesn't have a lick of logic) WHO you are. At the end of the day, if you think about it, do you want to be around people because they are rich, because they wear the right type of clothing, because they have a dream job, because they dress nice? I'll never get the materialistic world we live in, I guess people need it to drown their sorrows of who they have become, which is why they need to keep buying themselves stuff, or drugging themselves down to forget how they feel about themselves on the inside, where you know, it actually matters, and what determines how you view the world. How you view the world is nothing but a reflection of how you view yourself at the end of the day. 

I am not impressed by anyone that has money or fame. I can be impressed by someone I completely despise's talent, because I can separate person from talent, because I am capable of assessing a situation logically and rationally. At the same time I will call out a friend instantly if I see them behave like an absolute jackass or worse, and no, not in an opinionated situation, in a factual situation, where I give them a rundown of why their behavior is completely wrong. I never get the thing where people just blindly defend their friend if they know they are in the wrong, if in a situation like that, all logic goes out the window, how can anyone expect logic and rational to prevail in a situation where you're not even around people you like or care about? There are so many fundamental flaws in how the absolute majority,if not all of us are raised that we learn the opposite of what makes sense.

How many times haven't people told a lie to "protect" someone from the truth? What?! How does that make any sense? How are you ever protecting someone, by lying to them, want to explain that logic to me? You can't, it's impossible, regardless how much you emotionally think it's right to lie, it never is. The lie will in 99% of cases snowball into something much bigger and uncontrollable/uncontainable that in most cases leads to severe consequences that you or the person you lied to, will never truly recover from. Another thing is "respect your elders" what the fuck is that even suppose to mean? Hey you're an absolute fucking idiot, but since you're older than me I guess I should respect you by default, because well.. fuck logic I guess? Who came up with this nonsensical bullshit, really?

Back on topic to end this little rant:

The second you turn your words into destructive action you prove that your intellect on whatever the subject is, was insufficient and to make up for it to make yourself feel powerful, you had to resort to something that has nothing to do with the subject at all. If anything, resorting to destructive action is a way to deflect the fact that you're incapable of communicating because you're simply not smart enough to know what you're trying to communicate. You can't handle the fact that you're not good enough for yourself so you need to take it out on others, to compensate for the failure you are, instead of educating yourself and being better prepared and more knowledgeable next time. I think that is the point where the bad side of pride comes in, where people make irrational decisions to try to ironically save face and try to prove to others they are not as useless as they made themselves look.


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## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

It's a shame that @DesolationRow's last post will go over so many people's heads because I could have not put it any better myself. 

Brilliant.


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

To Oxi, Deso and others:

No. With all due respect, this doesn't work with me. I'm not here to debate ideas like philosophy majors over coffee. I spent years in that detached-from-reality world. I prefer expressing myself in simple ways, not in paragraphs that seem suited to publications dedicated to promoting theories in an academic style. I'm not impressed by such things. 

There's much I don't know but of some things I'm certain. Good intentions and bad can both lead to unfortunate outcomes, and both start from a desire to bring down what you hate to benefit what you believe, but not all intentions and resulting actions are equivalent. Some beliefs are incompatible with just society. Denying the equal value of any person based on race or ethnicity is one such belief and action taken to oppose it, inept or successful, is better than no action at all. 

As for the difference between white supremacy and black pride, it's quite simple. Those who have been, or are, oppressed lose sense of self. Just as a child of abuse learns self-loathing, so do groups. If your ancestors were taught they had no value, that their culture was beneath that of those controlling their world, that lesson is passed on to you. Once marginalized, life continues to reinforce negative self-and-group perceptions. The way to combat the cycle is through developing pride, little by little, until those who felt unwanted begin to dream again. Black pride, like other pride movements, is necessary today so that it won't be needed generations from now. 

White supremacy is a dominant culture refusing to own its true place as just one of many, and not as a master race. Movements such as BLM, feminism, LGBTQ and others are the first steps of people claiming their voice as equals. Like a child's first steps, these steps can be awkward but that doesn't negate the necessity of taking them. It's part of a process and society will be better in the end for it. 

************

I haven't, and won't for lack of time, read through this entire thread so perhaps this has been posted before now. Most of you will dismiss it as it comes from HBO and Vice but I'll leave it here regardless. 






All of this cannot be excused as justified by the removal of what are, in many cases, Jim Crow era monuments. When travelling, two of my priority visits are museums and galleries. Nothing, bar the landscape, speaks louder for a place than its art and cultural history. I don't advocate destruction - I would put myself on the line to preserve these statues, not ruin them - but I'm all for relocation of cultural artifacts that have gone out of favour. 

Since Antifa have been introduced as the "alt left", it might be useful to link a primer on who they are and why they exist. This comes from the Washington Post, so perhaps it may not be as well received as a Breitbart article but here it is:

Who are the antifa?


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Oxidamus said:


> Short answer:
> The default setting is to learn, and we learn that fascism is bad, so yea. Pretty much.
> 
> Long answer:
> ...


Did you expect me to read this long an answer to a rhetorical question?


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## BigDaveBatista (Aug 23, 2015)

i think antifa has moved past what's acceptable behaviour 

my biggest question is why didnt the police remove the nazis from the streets in the first place. im not arsed about freedom of speech when it comes to nazis
that ideology needs to be removed


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)




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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

GothicBohemian said:


> To Oxi, Deso and others:
> 
> No. With all due respect, this doesn't work with me. I'm not here to debate ideas like philosophy majors over coffee. I spent years in that detached-from-reality world. I prefer expressing myself in simple ways, not in paragraphs that seem suited to publications dedicated to promoting theories in an academic style. I'm not impressed by such things.
> 
> ...


Wait a minute. I haven't been paying attention to this since my last post. Please tell me somewhere didn't compare black pride and white supremacy.


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

GothicBohemian said:


> Since Antifa have been introduced as the "alt left", it might be useful to link a primer on who they are and why they exist. This comes from the Washington Post, so perhaps it may not be as well received as a Breitbart article but here it is:
> 
> Who are the antifa?


Antifa aren't heroes they're extremist leftists who the media ignores when they themselves preach violence and want to silence everyone else.

When people protest peacefully Antifa, Blacblock, BAMN and others start violence. This has been documented and there is many videos of them attacking unarmed people, press and calling people who don't align with their nonsense racist slurs.

Racist fascist fucks wear white, racist commie fucks wear black. 

There's a reason why there's not been a protest in which these douchebags show up that doesn't get out of hand. Even Leftists don't like them because they're also Anti-Liberal. It's hilarious how this cultist group gets free passes for their nonsense.



Headliner said:


> Wait a minute. I haven't been paying attention to this since my last post. Please tell me somewhere didn't compare black pride and white supremacy.


Iunno, I've not seen anyone say this. You can go back and check but don't think anyone has mentioned this.


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## Oda Nobunaga (Jun 12, 2006)

ANTIFA. :tripsscust

They get a pass because their views align with the majority of "liberal" (I'm using that word VERY loosely) news networks and social media political pundits. That's why they get a pass, despite documented abuse and violence at their hands. They're not liberal at all, or at least not the definition I know liberal to be. There is no intelligent discourse being had.

They've corrupted their original purpose. Their original purpose of being anti-fascist? Cool. That's alright with me. That doesn't matter now, though. What matters now are their actions and words in the _present_ and at the _present_ time, they're trash that hides behind socially accepted veneers so that they could commit the deeds they've done without consequence or widespread condemnation. 

I fully support protests. I do *not* support violent protests nor do I support putting people under a metaphorical sword, casting aspersions on people -- who likely would've supported 'em if their actions matched their original intent -- just because they don't appreciate their methods or support their nonsense.

Their "good intentions" can fuck off. Fuck their "You're either with us or against us" rhetoric. Fuck them.

I'm upset because they're yet another group of people that have corrupted liberalism with their garbage. They've stained it, as if there aren't enough stains on it nowadays.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*Six CEOs leave Trump's manufacturing council after his stupid ass comments supporting White Supremacists, forcing him to disband it, and he attacks the ONLY Black CEO on Twitter, but he doesn't have a racist agenda guys!!!* http://fortune.com/2017/08/17/donald-trump-ceo-council-disband-decision/

ut


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## Genesis 1.0 (Oct 31, 2008)

Headliner said:


> I remember speaking with some conservative delusional on here who tried to claim that right wing protest groups aren't violent.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896238835645915136
> ...


You ain't shit for throwing Tariq in the opening salvo. You already knew what it was going to turn into.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

> There are several statues of the Russian communist leader Vladimir Lenin across the U.S. which people are beginning to protest.
> 
> There are reportedly at least three statues of Lenin in the U.S. — one in New York City, Seattle, and Los Angeles. A group of Trump supporters gathered around the statue of Lenin in Seattle Wednesday afternoon and called for the removal of the statue.
> 
> ...


http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/16/many-un-happy-with-communist-statues-across-the-u-s/


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Legit BOSS said:


> *Six CEOs leave Trump's manufacturing council after his stupid ass comments supporting White Supremacists, forcing him to disband it, and he attacks the ONLY Black CEO on Twitter, but he doesn't have a racist agenda guys!!!* http://fortune.com/2017/08/17/donald-trump-ceo-council-disband-decision/
> 
> ut


Trump is a racist just like his father. Not sure how any sane person can deny it after this past weekend and now this.


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## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

birthday_massacre said:


> If someone defends white nationalist or the KKK they are racist.


I agree anyone who supports either of those organizations is a racists. Never once said I supported KKK or any of those awful organizations and never will. I really wish I knew how one is brought up with that much hate in their body. I could see if they were beat/ raped/ etc by someone of a different ethnicity. Majority of the people looked like middle aged guys just with hate in their body. I really wish I knew what their end game is?? Another civil war?


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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

birthday_massacre said:


> Trump is a racist just like his father. Not sure how any sane person can deny it after this past weekend and now this.


I'm sure sanity does look like insanity from inside the mass hysteria bubble. 

Thoughts on the ACLU fighting to make sure the neo nazis got to keep their permit to hold their rally?


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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

White Supremacy is a Dead End For White People

http://reason.com/blog/2017/08/18/white-supremacy-is-a-dead-end-for-white



> The white supremacists who marched on Charlottesville last weekend, as well as their confederates who cheered from afar, are now learning just how expensive it is to own those views in public. In the week since "Unite the Right,"
> 
> Four of the men who marched in defense of Gen. Robert E. Lee's statue no longer have jobs: a roofer, a pizza shop employee, a supermarket employee, and a hot dog shop employee.
> 
> ...


I support ostracizing those with toxic views. That's the right way to handle it. Not committing and justifying acts of violence.


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

Enjoy, discuss, debate :lmao


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## Oda Nobunaga (Jun 12, 2006)

RavishingRickRules said:


> Enjoy, discuss, debate :lmao


What if you're this guy?


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## Tater (Jan 3, 2012)

Miss Sally said:


> Antifa aren't heroes they're extremist leftists who the media ignores when they themselves preach violence and want to silence everyone else.
> 
> When people protest peacefully Antifa, Blacblock, BAMN and others start violence. This has been documented and there is many videos of them attacking unarmed people, press and calling people who don't align with their nonsense racist slurs.
> 
> ...


Violence doesn't have anything to do with left vs right. Whether or not someone promotes or participates in violence has nothing to do with their stance on healthcare or tax policy. Violence is much more of an authoritarian vs libertarian issue than it is a left vs right issue. Every time shit like this flares up, you see masses of ignorant retards blaming "the other side". The right wants to blame the left for violence specifically because they are leftists and vice versa. Meanwhile, there are peaceful people on both the left and the right who get caught up in the blame game. 

I recall when Steve Scalise was shot and it turned out the guy was a Bernie supporter. There were a lot of people who tried to lay that blame at Bernie's feet, even though he himself has never promoted violence. Here's what Sean Hannity had to say about it: “I’m not going to do what the left does here. Bernie Sanders is not responsible for what one of his stupid supporters has to say. Because most Bernie Sanders supporters are not violent and not out there trying to kill Republicans, and Bernie said he was sickened by the entire anti-GOP massacre here, alright? And I believe him. But, if it’s, you know, the Oklahoma City bombing, didn’t stop Bill Clinton from blaming talk radio.” Of course, he was wrong in his implication that this is something "the left" does (or even implying Bill Clinton is in any way a leftist), he's correct in not blaming the many for the actions of the few. Anyone who ends up making Sean fucking Hannity look like the voice of reason should be embarrassed for themselves.

Point being, violence does not take a leftward or rightward stance and we'd all be a lot better off if peaceful people from the left and right united against violence instead of blaming the other side for it.

Replace violence with racism and the same argument applies. Being a small government conservative doesn't make someone racist any more than wanting universal healthcare makes someone violent. If people would stop for a moment and use the power of their evolved brains instead of resorting to a tribalistic desire to lump people into groups and label them as others, they would see that.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)




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## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

To get a better understanding of how the Alt Right has grown in prominence in recent months, watch this video. They practically explain it themselves.



> "It is true, of course, that in Germany before 1933, and in Italy before 1922, communists and Nazis or Fascists clashed more frequently with each other than with other parties. They competed for the support of the same type of mind and reserved for each other the hatred of the heretic. But their practice showed how closely they are related. To both, the real enemy, the man with whom they had nothing in common and whom they could not hope to convince, is the liberal of the old type." - Friedrich Hayek.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)




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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

:hmmm k


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

RavishingRickRules said:


> :hmmm k


While that does make sense most white people in America are mixed with just about every European nationality and quite a few non-european. Most don't even know where their ancestors fully come from because many changed names coming here or simply didn't keep great records. So the same could be applied for them.

That being said all Pride movements seem equally stupid to me.




Tater said:


> Violence doesn't have anything to do with left vs right. Whether or not someone promotes or participates in violence has nothing to do with their stance on healthcare or tax policy. Violence is much more of an authoritarian vs libertarian issue than it is a left vs right issue. Every time shit like this flares up, you see masses of ignorant retards blaming "the other side". The right wants to blame the left for violence specifically because they are leftists and vice versa. Meanwhile, there are peaceful people on both the left and the right who get caught up in the blame game.
> 
> I recall when Steve Scalise was shot and it turned out the guy was a Bernie supporter. There were a lot of people who tried to lay that blame at Bernie's feet, even though he himself has never promoted violence. Here's what Sean Hannity had to say about it: “I’m not going to do what the left does here. Bernie Sanders is not responsible for what one of his stupid supporters has to say. Because most Bernie Sanders supporters are not violent and not out there trying to kill Republicans, and Bernie said he was sickened by the entire anti-GOP massacre here, alright? And I believe him. But, if it’s, you know, the Oklahoma City bombing, didn’t stop Bill Clinton from blaming talk radio.” Of course, he was wrong in his implication that this is something "the left" does (or even implying Bill Clinton is in any way a leftist), he's correct in not blaming the many for the actions of the few. Anyone who ends up making Sean fucking Hannity look like the voice of reason should be embarrassed for themselves.
> 
> ...


Agreed. It's not a Right or Left thing. The biggest issue surrounding groups like Antifa is their pass from the media in most cases when groups like this seek violence. As I pointed out most protests can be peaceful, maybe a little rowdy and when these assholes show up it turns violent. It also doesn't help if you're a Leftist and speak out that people from the "Left" will just go nuts on you as if you cannot criticize anyone from your own group as it's some sort of sin.


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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

RavishingRickRules said:


> :hmmm k


True, a lot of different European cultures get undeserved credit for the achievements of Anglo-Saxon protestants. It's not right.


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## BORT (Oct 5, 2009)

Miss Sally said:


> While that does make sense most white people in America are mixed with just about every European nationality and quite a few non-european. Most don't even know where their ancestors fully come from because many changed names coming here or simply didn't keep great records. So the same could be applied for them.
> 
> That being said all Pride movements seem equally stupid to me.
> 
> ...


I can't tell you how many people I see now defending these Antifa scum. Most I've seen never heard of Antifa until Charlottesville. So they have this warped perception that Antifa are somehow "the good guys" because they were attacking Nazi's and white supremecists. They are completely oblivious to all the attacks, riots, and intimidation tacitcs they've been using on Trump supporters and right wingers these past 15 months or so. Hell even NJ declared that they are a domestic terror group. Even when you try to show them videos and explain this to people they won't believe it and try to imply or acuse you of being a Nazi sympathizer. It's truly fucked up how so many people are being misinformed.

The truth is Nazis are scum. Antifa are scum. It's not this us vs them "choose your side" thing. We should be denouncing both groups.


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

GothicBohemian said:


> To Oxi, Deso and others:
> 
> No. With all due respect, this doesn't work with me. I'm not here to debate ideas like philosophy majors over coffee. I spent years in that detached-from-reality world. I prefer expressing myself in simple ways, not in paragraphs that seem suited to publications dedicated to promoting theories in an academic style. I'm not impressed by such things.


Christ, you all really are hopeless. Has anyone on your 'side' in this thread done anything but deflect, refuse to "discuss or debate", or ignore?


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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

Interesting fracture in the alt right now with the fallout of Charlottesville, between the Unite The Right organizer Jason Kessler and Richard Spencer:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/898766109523951616
In fact a lot of Spencer's recent tweets lately sound like a man who knows his movement is on it's last legs as they've lost internet platforms and suffered financially. This is why I believe in letting the racists come out into the light and be resoundingly denounced in the public square. You don't need weapons and safe spaces. The toxicity of their ideas and rhetoric will be enough.

Hopefully Antifa meets a similar fate.


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## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

CamillePunk said:


> Interesting fracture in the alt right now with the fallout of Charlottesville, between the Unite The Right organizer Jason Kessler and Richard Spencer:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/898766109523951616
> ...


People cheer antifa... and I worry that will only embolden them and the response is the reciprical growth of extremism like the Nazi's. Antifa won't stop until everything is their way and that will only cause a resurgence of groups that teetered on oblivion as the laughing stocks they should be. All the signs of chaos and collapse are here and most aren't noticing. Seems "Rome" will burn again.


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## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

CamillePunk said:


> Interesting fracture in the alt right now with the fallout of Charlottesville, between the Unite The Right organizer Jason Kessler and Richard Spencer:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/898766109523951616
> ...


Not until Antifa loses their masks and media protection.

At this point Liberals have been calling them out and people have been slapping down Liberals who criticize the group. It's going to take something drastic to get the media and College kids to turn on the group.


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## TheNightmanCometh (Feb 1, 2017)

Miss Sally said:


> Not until Antifa loses their masks and media protection.
> 
> At this point Liberals have been calling them out and people have been slapping down Liberals who criticize the group. It's going to take something drastic to get the media and College kids to turn on the group.


In a year or two all of this will be happening on college campuses, once all the Gen Y kids start attending.


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## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

A few more interesting articles surrounding this topic: http://www.dailywire.com/news/19936..._content=081817-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro#



> As President Trump said, the totalitarian mob rule of removing statues people find offensive has a slippery slope descending into darkness.
> 
> On top of people calling for the removal of George Washington's statue and the Jefferson Memorial, vandals in California have pointed their crosshairs at recently-canonized St. Junipero Serra.
> 
> ...







Seems as though Antifa aren't just satisfied tearing down statues of Confederates and the founding fathers. I would say I don't know what they hope to achieve considering all your doing is tearing down American history in which people can learn from both good and bad, but honestly considering we are talking about *COMMUNISTS* here, I think there is a different motivation at work here. One in which seeks to destroy any semblance of American history which is in direct opposition to the ideology they represent.

In any event, regardless of whether you believe these sort of actions are justified, one has to ask when enough is enough?

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/0...62316-news&utm_campaign=dailywire-reciprocity



> A small group of protesters — several wearing “Make America Great Again” caps from Republican President Donald Trump’s campaign — marched around a statue of Vladimir Lenin in Seattle on Wednesday and demanded its removal.
> 
> A day later, Democratic Mayor Ed Murray agreed the statue of the brutal Soviet dictator should be taken down, KCPQ-TV reported. According to MyNorthwest.com, he made an official request for its removal.
> 
> ...


The world has gone utterly mad....or I should say the US has gone utterly mad :lmao.

I mean, I'm no fan of Lenin, I think he was a tyrannical monster but what are we going to do? Tear down every statue we don't like? Isn't there some more important things we could be doing here? I'm just perplexed and dumbfounded by these stupid actions. The funny thing is, if Antifa and BLM weren't so determined to tear down every statue that is associated with white American history, we wouldn't see this as a response.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/19925...m_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro



> Former NBA star Charles Barkley had a few choice words for those obsessed with removing statues of Conderate figures, telling the black community they should focus on getting an education and economic opportunity instead.
> 
> Interviewed by Rick Karle, sports director at WBRC FOX6, Barkley stated:
> 
> ...


Oh boy, the BLM folk aren't going to like this :lmao. But he is 100% correct.

-------------------------------

This last article the leftists on here who support Antifa should especially pay attention to, because this is the reality of the situation of how Antifa are playing right into the hands of the Alt Right, supporting them will only encourage more sympathy and thus more support for the white identitarian movement: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattv...uctive-antifa-is-a-gift-to-the-right-n2370257




> *Noam Chomsky: 'Self-Destructive' Antifa Is 'A Major Gift To The Right'*
> 
> What happened in Charlottesville, Virginia last weekend was a tragedy. Last Saturday, White nationalists flooded the city to protest the removal of a Robert E. Lee statue. Far left Antifa (anti-fascists) protesters also showed up and skirmishes broke out. Scores of people were sent to the hospital. One woman was killed when a white nationalist plowed through a group of counter demonstrators, 19 others were injured as well. That’s what separates this incident. Yes, white nationalists and Antifa are violent thugs, but Antifa did not kill anyone last weekend. Donald Trump’s remarks about the incident may have saved the far left from scrutiny with the media, but they will undoubtedly be back in the news. I don’t think what Trump said was wrong; he blamed both sides for political violence. In general—you cannot have a credible condemnation or discussion of toxic political rhetoric without slamming the far left. Again, with Charlottesville, a person died which changes the game. Nevertheless, CNN’s Jake Tapper noted that reporters at Charlottesville were also assaulted by the far left.
> 
> ...


If you don't get it after reading this, then I don't know what to tell you. You are a lost cause. Supporting Antifa and more violence is not going to solve the problem we have with the Alt right and to both discourage people joining their ranks or to help people turn away from them.


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## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

CamillePunk said:


> True, a lot of different European cultures get undeserved credit for the achievements of Anglo-Saxon protestants. It's not right.


Especially as the Anglo-Saxons were dead a couple of centuries before Protestantism was created :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao Learn some history, they got soundly beaten and assimilated with the Normans and Vikings around a Millennium ago :lmao :lmao :lmao I'm starting to understand why you think a cartoonist is a top political pundit.


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## USAUSA1 (Sep 17, 2006)

The when white people don't get it thread.


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## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

I had an interesting exchange the other day with a racist twat over at Daily Wire (he claimed he was a white nationalist and that I was the racist). :lol I told him the difference between white nationalists and white supremacists is that the nationalists quietly encourage the supremacists to beat the shit out of minorities because they are too chicken shit to do it themselves. 

Interesting commentary from the New York Times...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/opinion/aclu-first-amendment-trump-charlottesville.html?mcubz=1

The op-ed basically says that the ACLU was wrong to want to defend the rights of neo-Nazis and white supremacist movements. This is the wrong type of thinking to have. 

To me, I hold EVERYONE accountable for their words. White, black, Asian, etc...I don't care. If you spout racist garbage, I am going to call you ignorant for doing so. No one gets a free pass from me in regards to that. At the same time, I don't want to silence your right to speak as reprehensible as your language might be. I would rather the hatred and venom be out in the open. It might make me uncomfortable, but at least I know where it's coming from and then I can decide whether to ignore it or confront it. 

To be honest, the conservative side of the political spectrum has been quick to clobber the ACLU for its stances and who it defends, etc. Now, the liberals are doing the same thing. I might not agree with some of what they do, but we still need organizations like the ACLU. Either all speech is OK, or none of it is. Now, that comes with limits...freedom of speech is not absolute. But we need to see where the hate is coming from and then we can address it. 

To me, both the white supremacists and Antifa are both vile, horrible groups. Groups like the KKK are obvious...meanwhile while Antifa and the like are willing to fight the KKK head-on let's not forget several months ago they were rioting on Inauguaration Day and destroying property. I would be happy to let the two of them go into the Roman Colosseum, lock the gates and let them kill each other. 

My question is this...we talk about wanting to improve conversations and race relations. I want to know if we all really want to or is it just lip service. Many of us do, but we have people on both sides that would rather promote confrontation instead of conversation. They know if we are actually talking, then they lose the gravy train that allowed them to profit on hate.


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## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

Also:










Too funny not to post because it's true :lol.


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## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

L-DOPA said:


> Antifa is just as radical and violent.
> 
> When confrontation shifts to the arena of violence, it's the toughest and most brutal who win – and we know who that is,



:HA I condemn Antifa, dumb fucks, but the guy wrote this in an article and we're supposed to take it seriously? The alt right just murdered a person with a car and Antifa are attacking statues and we're conflating the two.


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## BORT (Oct 5, 2009)

draykorinee said:


> :HA I condemn Antifa, dumb fucks, but the guy wrote this in an article and we're supposed to take it seriously? The alt right just murdered a person with a car and Antifa are attacking statues and we're conflating the two.


We need to be honest here and not conveniently leave out facts to fit our own narratives. Antfia haven't just been "attacking statues". For months they've been rioting on the streets, preventing people from speaking which threatens freedom of speech. They've been doing things like throwing M80's into crowds full of all types of people. They've thrown bottles filled with urine and feces at protesters, thrown rocks into crowds, attacked random people with pepper spray. There was a member that attacked a man with a bike lock that literally left the guys head gushing with blood. They're a group that PROMOTES anarachy for god sakes. Just because one of their members haven't killed someone yet doesn't mean we shouldn't be condemning them to the fullest extent. These guys literally believe in shutting people down they don't agree with. I mean that is pure facism and goes 100% against the constitution. That is NOT a group we should cuddle up to or normalize in any way. 

Again both Antfia and Nazis we need to look at the same way. They're both 110% TRASH. Whether or not they killed someone yet isn't the point.


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## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

draykorinee said:


> :HA I condemn Antifa, dumb fucks, but the guy wrote this in an article and we're supposed to take it seriously? The alt right just murdered a person with a car and Antifa are attacking statues and we're conflating the two.


Someone needs a history lesson on what Antifa has been doing the past 18 months. We're not just talking about one event: where both Antifa and the Alt Right we're violent towards each other. The article was absolutely correct: what separates the two groups *in this particular event* is the one murderous lunatic who ran over a woman with a car. No one is suggesting that the white nationalists weren't violent or deserve justification for their actions. 

But that is just one side of the story, there are certain people on the left who seem to be willing to overlook not only Antifa's role in the events of Charlottesville but also previous violence the group has committed against other people for the sake of opposing the Alt Right. In short: they believe you can't oppose one group without supporting the other and that if you condemn just as strongly Antifa then you are appeasing the Alt Right. This is complete nonsense.

Antifa have a history of violence, not just towards the alt right but to other groups. I mean look at these examples:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-inauguration-protests-idUSKBN1540J7



> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Black-clad activists among hundreds of demonstrators protesting Donald Trump's swearing-in on Friday clashed with police a few blocks from the White House, in an outburst of violence rare for an inauguration.
> 
> At least 217 people were arrested in the melees, police said.
> 
> ...


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...y-protesters-indicted-rioting-charges-n718626



> A grand jury has indicted more than 100 Inauguration Day protesters on rioting charges in Washington, D.C. In total, 209 people have now been indicted.
> 
> The indictment, handed up D.C. Superior Court on Wednesday, charged 146 additional protesters with felony rioting — meaning they face a fine of up to $25,000 and a maximum of 10 years in prison.
> 
> ...


http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/01/us/milo-yiannopoulos-berkeley/index.html



> Berkeley, California (CNN)Protests that erupted at UC Berkeley ahead of a planned Wednesday appearance by right-wing commentator Milo Yiannopoulos caused $100,000 worth of damage to the campus, the school said Thursday.
> 
> The university blamed "150 masked agitators" for the unrest, saying they had come to campus to disturb an otherwise peaceful protest.
> 
> ...


http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/15/us/berkeley-protests-trump/index.html



> (CNN)At least 21 people were arrested as Trump supporters and opponents clashed Saturday at a park in Berkeley, California, police said.
> 
> Eleven people were injured, with seven transported to the hospital in unknown condition, Berkeley Police spokesman Byron White told CNN.
> "A large number of fights have occurred and numerous fireworks have been thrown in the crowds," Berkeley police said in a statement. "There have also been numerous reports of pepper spray being used in the crowd."
> ...


http://hotair.com/archives/2017/07/20/berkeley-antifa-leader-arrested-inciting-riot/



> Berkeley Antifa Leader Arrested For Inciting A Riot
> 
> Tuesday, police arrested Yvette Felarca, a Berkeley middle-school teacher who is one of the leaders of the Antifa group By Any Means Necessary. Felarca is charged with inciting a riot last June in Sacramento, CA. From Berkeleyside:
> 
> ...







http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/25/f...ted-for-antifa-bike-lock-attacks-in-berkeley/



> I don’t like political violence, no matter who’s doing it or who’s the victim. It’s wrong. I’m always glad when the perpetrators are brought to justice, and in this particular case, I’m glad these “antifa” guys are being exposed for the fascists they are.
> 
> Ian Miles Cheong, Heat Street:
> 
> ...







https://spectator.org/g20-protests-get-violent-as-antifa-thugs-descend-on-hamburg/



> While President Trump was greeted with thunderous applause and displays of both pro-American and pro-Polish patriotism when he spoke in Warsaw, the situation in the next place he is visiting is not as cheerful. Before the G20 summit even began, around a hundred thousand protesters descended on the city. Most of the protesters are anti-capitalists and surprisingly “anti-globalists,” though I have a strong feeling that these anti-globalists are actually just a different shade of globalist. A vast majority of those protesting have done so peacefully, but per usual someone had to come and ruin a display of free expression, Antifa.
> 
> Antifa is a largely unorganized “anti-fascist” movement that has been in the news lately because of the Berkeley riots and the violent protests at Trump’s inauguration. Antifa is relatively weak in the United States, thank God, but it is quite a force in Europe. Antifa aren’t as much “anti-fascist” as they are Stalinesque Communists, as recent violence in Hamburg shows. When the Hamburg police force tried to separate the masked Antifa protesters from the peaceful ones, the violence began. Antifa thugs used iron bars, metal poles, and broken bottles and other improvised weapons to assault police, while police responded with mace, water cannons, and smoke. In the fighting, 159 police officers were injured, and an unknown number of protesters were also injured. In the chaos, fires were lit in trashcans on the streets and cars were torched, which doesn’t seem that good for the environment that the far left reveres as a god. In the wake of the violent riots, thousands of additional police forces from around Germany have been dispatched to Hamburg to provide security for the summit. The situation is so chaotic that the First Lady was unable to attend an event with other first spouses due to security issues.
> 
> ...








This isn't a one time isolated incident as a response to the alt right, which is bad enough even if you think they are justified because it will only give more sympathies to the white identitarian groups and help them grow.

Antifa have been at the centre of political violence and riots for *months* now. Not just in the US but Europe as well. Their ideology as one of political collectivism and an us vs them mindset. They are perfectly happy to attack police and attack innocent bystanders who disagree with their cause. They are not just a group of stupid kids taking down Confederate statues, they are a bunch of anarchists/communists who hate western values built on Individualism, market economies and private property rights. This is why:















If one remembers the dangers of far left ideology and of Communism in general, they will realize why this group is abhorrent.

Yes, this group didn't kill anyone at Charlottesville, but considering all the evidence I have presented to you now, you don't think they wouldn't be prepared to kill in the name of their cause? It would be a pretty naive conclusion to make.

In fact, Antifa have been so violent and disruptive that they have *even been declared a domestic terrorist group by New Jersey’s Homeland Security office.*

http://redalertpolitics.com/2017/07...ity-office-declares-antifa-a-terrorist-group/



> The radical far-left group Antifa has been using threats and violence to suppress conservatives, libertarians, nationalists, and capitalists for months, and finally, a state has officially labeled them a terrorist group.
> 
> On June 12, New Jersey became the first state in the country to label Antifa a domestic terrorist organization with the state office of Homeland Security and Prepardness.
> 
> ...


Others may be willing to overlook and ignore the history of political violence as well as the abhorrent collectivist views of Antifa for the sake of fighting the Alt Right, but I'm not. Because I am damn sure that siding with these lunatics is not going to be the way to solve the problems and divide that is happening in the US right now, it will only further embolden the far right and help them grow.

Not to mention that there has been enough violent action over the course of several months to confidently denounce Antifa with full conviction and yes, put them in line with the other racial collectivists of the far right *in terms of their actions. *


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## BORT (Oct 5, 2009)

L-DOPA said:


> Someone needs a history lesson on what Antifa has been doing the past 18 months. We're not just talking about one event: where both Antifa and the Alt Right we're violent towards each other. The article was absolutely correct: what separates the two groups *in this particular event* is the one murderous lunatic who ran over a woman with a car. No one is suggesting that the white nationalists weren't violent or deserve justification for their actions.
> 
> But that is just one side of the story, there are certain people on the left who seem to be willing to overlook not only Antifa's role in the events of Charlottesville but also previous violence the group has committed against other people for the sake of opposing the Alt Right. In short: they believe you can't oppose one group without supporting the other and that if you condemn just as strongly Antifa then you are appeasing the Alt Right. This is complete nonsense.
> 
> ...


Another video of Antifa attacking a guy(who is a white nationalist, but still. He wasn't doing anything that warranted assault). It's like watching a video of someone being taken down by mindless zombies.


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## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

Awfully convenient that this one guy isn't enough to make the right more brutal and violent.


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## BORT (Oct 5, 2009)

draykorinee said:


> Awfully convenient that this one guy isn't enough to make the right more brutal and violent.


I'm sorry but you are making this about some "who is more evil" olympics here which is just foolish at this point. It's a fact that BOTH groups have been terrorizing each other without incitement so BOTH should be denounced. It's not about this team vs that team it's about denouncing politcal violence period. Both parties like Antifa and Nazis have made their point clear about what they represent. Any group that supports active political violence(NOT self-defense which is completely different) in a civil society again should in no way be coddled. "Who did more evil" is of little relevance at this point because both already have commited violence and are in support of it. It's like arguing about who is more evil, a rapist or a serial killer? Who cares. Both are scum and need to be shat on to the fullest extent.


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## Vox Machina (May 22, 2014)

@Headliner @GothicBohemian@Legit BOSS






Skip to *19:00*. It's a fun little game called Who's the Bad Guy? It's about Nazis. Social commentary. Very relevant.


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## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

draykorinee said:


> :HA I condemn Antifa, dumb fucks, but the guy wrote this in an article and we're supposed to take it seriously? The alt right just murdered a person with a car and Antifa are attacking statues and we're conflating the two.


It's not like Antifa hasn't been trying. You don't smack people over the head with a bike lock if you're not expecting to do damage. Yes, some piece of shit white supremacist killed someone and its awful and it should have never happened. But stop giving Antifa a pass . There wont be peace if you enable people like this. This stuff only causes more division , these are people that believe they should be allowed to be violent against anyone who disagrees with them and that doesn't just mean Nazi's. 





^ Is this guy a Nazi simply for being on the other side? Is him potentially getting brain damage justified? You can't give people the notion that its okay to physically assault anyone they disagree with . That's absolutely the worst way to not only get people to join your team but achieve peace because like we saw in Charlottesville...people fight back and quite frankly I don't want anymore people to die over false narratives


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

draykorinee said:


> Awfully convenient that this one guy isn't enough to make the right more brutal and violent.


Stop playing sides here, it does absolutely nothing good. 

It's the idea of violence with political beliefs versus people who are actually decent enough to just accept that people have different political views, which are NOT worth getting violent over. We don't need all of these people with extreme ideas, who refuse to listen to anybody else's opinions, attacking each other in the name of politics. Everybody should be denouncing that, no matter where you fall on the political spectrum.


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## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

Dr. Middy said:


> Stop playing sides here, it does absolutely nothing good.
> 
> It's the idea of violence with political beliefs versus people who are actually decent enough to just accept that people have different political views, which are NOT worth getting violent over. We don't need all of these people with extreme ideas, who refuse to listen to anybody else's opinions, attacking each other in the name of politics. Everybody should be denouncing that, no matter where you fall on the political spectrum.


I already denounced Antifa I don't know what you're on about.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

Jesus, Social Justice really is a cult


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## 2 Ton 21 (Dec 28, 2011)

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/08/19/charlottesville-rally-organizer-calls-heather-heyers-death-payback.html



> *Charlottesville rally organizer calls Heather Heyer’s death ‘payback’*
> 
> A Twitter post from the account of Jason Kessler, the far-right activist who organized the Charlottesville, Va., “Unite the Right” rally, insulted the protester who was killed at the event, saying late Friday night that her death was “payback time.”
> 
> ...


"I was hacked!"

No you weren't.

"I was on drugs!"

No, you're just a piece of shit.


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## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

What a fucking cunt that Jason Kessler is. Anyone celebrates someone being murdered just because they hate the ideology they stood for should be publicly shamed. Extremely low to say the least.


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## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

- Vic


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Vic Capri said:


> - Vic


Why didnt you add the Alt Right and KKK/Neo Nationalist to that?

Oh thats right it does not fit your agenda. Keep defending the racist right.


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## Trivette (Dec 30, 2013)

*Re: BOTH sides ARE guilty*

I've seen a lot of folks doubling-down on the fallacy that to condemn violent provocateurs within ANTIFA and BLM is to, by default, affirm and support neo-nazis, ect. ect. This couldn't be farther from the truth. In fact, if you condemn one, and fail to condemn the other, you are being at the least, intellectually dishonest, or worst, blatantly distorting the truth to push a false narrative. Hate and bigotry are the same no matter who's behind the mask or what flag they wave.

But yeah, let's pretend that this fella has nothing but love and tolerance in his heart this past Saturday. 










Elsewhere, ANTIFA defacing and attacking a Monument devoted to PEACE was by no means an accident.

http://www.11alive.com/news/local/a...ght-during-charlottesville-protests/464097389

Today its statues, tomorrow its burning books, and the next day its the church. And trust me when I say, nothing offends the left more than the cross. Or the Constitution. We are staring down the barrel of another Cultural Revolution (re: China) where people will start being arrested for wrong-think and hauled off to the gulags for "re-education." The erosion of free speech and erasing of history is exponentially more threatening to our civil liberties than a baker's dozen of knuckle-head neo-nazis. Especially now that radical leftists have defined anyone remotely right of Mao ZeDong to be "a nazi." Notice I am careful to make a distinction between progressives, democrats, and leftists. There IS a marked difference between the three. Conversely, the same principle applies applies to the right. 










And let's be real: we've seen the violence from these agitators over and over again. From Ferguson, to Baltimore, to Texas where 5 police officers were killed, we have witness the manifestation of the left's mantra: "By any means necessary." We've watched idly by as they set the streets of Berkeley ablaze and attacked unarmed bystanders, simply because a conservative speaker was booked to provide a lecture (and a gay one at that). 










We saw Trump supporters attacked over and over again outside of rallies, including women who were egged and surrounded by hostile and aggressive lynch mobs. The violence from the radical left is no new phenomenon, however, and can be traced back to the raging '60s, to Watts, and the L.A riots. 










These recent conflicts are not really about statues. What these iconoclasts leave out of the equation is that America was by far the first country to abolish slavery...and that over 600k died in the process. They certainly won't concede that slavery is alive and well all throughout the world...or that human trafficking is happening right here, right now all along the Beltway. No because that would require true self-actualization to address and turning away from identity politics, to get off of their smart phones and actually work to better the world.

No, the left wants to watch it burn and reform it in their own image. Their real goal is to discredit all of the founding figures of the country, whatever their flaws, and in turn discredit, and reform the Constitution itself. Mark my words. Meanwhile the MSM are fanning the flames and salivating with glee. Their adamant refusal to acknowledge any of the perpetual violence of the left reveals a disturbing disconnect with reality. At some point the #VeryFakeNews must be held accountable for their actions.










@DesolationRow @CamillePunk @LumpyMcRighteous;


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## TheNightmanCometh (Feb 1, 2017)

birthday_massacre said:


> Why didnt you add the Alt Right and KKK/Neo Nationalist to that?
> 
> Oh thats right it does not fit your agenda. Keep defending the racist right.


Maybe he should have, but, still, you do see the connection, right?



Headliner said:


> Did you read my definition of white sympathizer?


No, can you link me to it? Thanks.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

TheNightmanCometh said:


> Maybe he should have, but, still, you do see the connection, right?
> 
> 
> 
> No, can you link me to it? Thanks.


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/69630001-post534.html


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## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)




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## TheNightmanCometh (Feb 1, 2017)

Headliner said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/69630001-post534.html


I read what you wrote, and I appreciate you linking it. I had a question about it, though. You did a good job of outlining what you would consider a "white sympathizer". I can't really argue too much with everything you said, because I also agree that hand-picking certain crazy people out of a group and using that person as a representative of the group is wrong. I can't argue with it, but from an outside prospective, I don't think you're giving the other side enough room to critique your opinions, without being painted with the broad brush of "white sympathizer". Like, it should be perfectly acceptable to point out what's happening in Chicago, but if you're talking about something completely different, like what some "white nationalists" did in some place, and they bring up Chicago, then that's, of course, an argumentative fallacy and should be confronted. That being said, if I started a topic about "X numbers of black on black shootings in Chicago", would you say, "That TNC, he's a "white sympathizer""?

Like I said before, this painting with a broad brush, has to stop. Like, you know going in that what you're fighting for is a sensitive topic. Not because white-people are racist. It's because you believe one thing, and the other person believes something entirely different. It wouldn't mean a thing if you were talking about how good/bad Iron Man 3 is, but what we're talking about is serious stuff, for everyone involved.

These kind of topics have to be talked about with respect of each person's ideology, whether they disagree with it or not. What we can't do is break down into violence, or pushing tactics that are against the law. Violent protests, and defacement of property, these things have to stop. There's no need for any of that. If you want to win the hearts and minds of the people, you have to do it peacefully. What I'm seeing now is an escalation of conflict. We can disagree on where it started, but that doesn't matter anymore. It's started, and now we should all be looking to pull back on the reigns.

Nobody here, nor the vast, vast, vast majority of white people in America, wants to put black people back in chains, gays back in the closet, or women back in the kitchen. We can agree on that, right?

We need to get back to sensible arguments, and a sensible reality. I've been reading, and seeing, too many things from the left, and now from the alt-right, espousing solutions that do nothing, but cause division, rancor, and problems. Trump did nothing to help this either, neither did Obama. In fact all I'm seeing now are politicians playing into the conflict. As Americans, we need to put a stop to this.

Anyways, I'm rambling. I think every topic has a middle-ground, and I think there isn't enough of an effort to get there.

So, I appreciate your definition of what a "white sympathizer" is and what argument techniques that you see them using. 

I would say, though, that these topics are sensitive to you, and they are to me, but to a different degree. I would like to have discussions with you, and others, in the future, about these issues. I'd like to disagree with you on things and still have an honest discussion. I would like to talk about hard truths and it not get bogged down into personal attacks against our characters. Can we do that? Respect begets respect. I respect you, you respect me. I don't think you're a SJW-leftist-commie-terrorist, and you don't think I'm a racist-bigot-sexist-homophobic-white sympathizer.

I think we might be able to find a sensible common ground if we play by those rules.


----------

