# Moxley vs Omega wasn't "brutal"



## Boldgerg (Apr 2, 2017)

In the real world, that is, even though it was a great hardcore wrestling match. 

There are a lot of typical 2019 snowflakes (more so on social media than on here) acting like a staged wrestling match that featured a few pin prick cuts that might require a stitch or two and a few plasters was genuinely barbaric.

The truth is that any and every boxing, MMA, or any other legitimate combat sport fight is a hundred times more dangerous and brutal than what we saw tonight, and people need to chill the fuck out.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Yeah I agree for most part. A few spots like screw driver and big piece of glass felt too much. But it's not like both guys were covered in blood. They had a few small cuts on face and body. It's nothing like gore we saw in the 90s or even in TNA 10 years ago.


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Comparing them in this aspect makes absolutely zero sense. It's not like in wrestling they legit go out and try as hard as possible to hurt one another, although in storyline they will. 

Of course it's more dangerous and brutal when you are full on punching and kicking another guy full force. 

This was arguably one of the most violent matches that has been in the mainstream. Usually this level of hardcore was in smaller companies that would never be broadcasted. ECW would probably be the closest.


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## Best Bout Machine (Jan 24, 2009)

The reactions from people in the live thread were hilarious. You could clearly tell that they have never watched an actual hardcore match before. It was one of the most brutal matches from a top promotion, though.


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Seriously. What's the point of this thread?.



> Combats sports are more dangerous than wrestling


No shit pal.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

You do realize wrestling is fake right? Spin your own argument on yourself. People are reacting to the match from the basis and the perception of staged wrestling and creative sickness. From THAT perspective, it was brutal as fuck. I don't know what you're trying to argue here. Of course it's not as brutal as ACTUAL combat sports. Let people enjoy themselves.


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## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

I was honestly expecting worse, and thank god they didn't go TOO far. The match looked good, and that's enough for me.


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## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE (Sep 12, 2013)

It wasn't on the level of some Japanese matches that I've seen but I could see an uninitiated fan being freaked out by it. Very good match to me.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

If you want unnecessary gore go watch CZW or something. For a major company that wants to compete with other major companies it was brutal enough


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## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The match *depicted* brutality just as it needed to. Moxley and Omega delivered extreme professional wrestling. I couldn't ask for too much more without asking them to further risk legit hurting each other which would be stupid.


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## Boldgerg (Apr 2, 2017)

How dumb do you have to be to miss the point I'm making, after I've clearly put it in plain English?

My point, to reiterate, is that such a mass overreaction towards a hardcore staged wrestling match is ridiculous, with people acting like it was real, genuine, life shortening brutality and shouldn't be allowed. It's pathetic.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

And here you are overreacting to people overreacting lol.


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## Boldgerg (Apr 2, 2017)

prosperwithdeen said:


> And here you are overreacting to people overreacting lol.


What a load of bull.

In that case people are overreacting to the fact that I'm overreacting to people overreacting... how far shall we spin and flip that around and around?


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## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

Jesus, just let people suspend their belief and enjoy the match for what it was


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## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Mox Girl said:


> Jesus, just let people suspend their belief and enjoy the match for what it was


I think the OP was more calling out the people shitting on the match for being brutal, not enjoying the match for being brutal.


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Wrestling is fucked if the average fan is turned off by this sort of thing.


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## Boldgerg (Apr 2, 2017)

Mox Girl said:


> Jesus, just let people suspend their belief and enjoy the match for what it was <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0" alt="" title="rolleyes" class="inlineimg" />


How are people getting this so wrong? I'm honestly baffled. 

What does this have to do with people who enjoyed the match? I'm calling out the snowflakes who legitimately thought it was too genuinely barbaric and the sort of match shouldn't be allowed to take place.


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## Boldgerg (Apr 2, 2017)

Death Rider said:


> Mox Girl said:
> 
> 
> > Jesus, just let people suspend their belief and enjoy the match for what it was <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0" alt="" title="rolleyes" class="inlineimg" />
> ...


Thank god someone has a brain.


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## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

Boldgerg said:


> How are people getting this so wrong? I'm honestly baffled.
> 
> What does this have to do with people who enjoyed the match? I'm calling out the snowflakes who legitimately thought it was too genuinely barbaric and the sort of match shouldn't be allowed to take place.


You need to change the name of the thread then, cos it seriously sounds like you're shitting on the match for not being brutal enough or something.

And who cares if people think the match is too brutal? If they think it's real then that's on them and they need to educate themselves. Can't you just ignore them instead of complaining about them?


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## Boldgerg (Apr 2, 2017)

Mox Girl said:


> Boldgerg said:
> 
> 
> > How are people getting this so wrong? I'm honestly baffled.
> ...


Literally the opening line of the original post clearly shows that's not the case. Have you even read it?

And I care, because if snowflakes get their way by pissing and moaning because they think a fake wrestling match is too barbaric then we can kiss good bye to seeing proper hardcore matches like we saw tonight.


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## Donnie (Apr 8, 2014)

I was offended by this match :mj2 

How dare they hurt each for real and endanger their welfare. My heroes Michael Francis Foley. Terrence Fuck, Nickolas Gage, Matthew Treamont and Jun "Protector of prime mates" Kasai, would EVER do such a thing


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## kingnoth1n (Nov 21, 2016)




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## Scissor Me Daddy-O!! (Apr 13, 2011)

RBrooks said:


> I was honestly expecting worse, and thank god they didn't go TOO far. The match looked good, and that's enough for me.


Same for me. I don't want cringy death spots with light tubes. I thought they did just enough. And, it felt better that they used less. Otherwise you just get a one-up, one-up, one-up series where the bumps and cuts get worse.


Fans of brutal hardcore matches can complain. But, that's not what I wanted. They will likely sell the exact same amount of tickets doing what they did tonight versus going too far. 

I also think it's cool if some people were blown away by the "hardcore". That really shows the guys did a good job.


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## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

Boldgerg said:


> Literally the opening line of the original post clearly shows that's not the case. Have you even read it?
> 
> And I care, because if snowflakes get their way by pissing and moaning because they think a fake wrestling match is too barbaric then we can kiss good bye to seeing proper hardcore matches like we saw tonight.


I don't want too many of those matches tbh, if you see that kind of match on the regular it'll lose it's appeal if you ask me. That kind of match should be done only every now and then. It's also the reason why I couldn't watch too much ECW at one time.


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## James Hurley (Oct 28, 2019)

Wrestling fans 2019: We want ECW and the Monday Night Wars a back!... Undertaker/Foley HIAC was the best match ever!
Wrestling fans 2019: Can't NXT and AEW just get along?... Mox and Omega want too far!


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## CHAMPIONSHIPS (Dec 14, 2016)

Bad thread, OP didn't communicate his point very well. Shame cuz it seems like a sensible point


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## Cooper09 (Aug 24, 2016)

I though the whole match looked desperate. Hey look at us, we're HARDCORE!!!


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Cooper09 said:


> I though the whole match looked desperate. Hey look at us, we're HARDCORE!!!


Looks like someone forgot how grudge matches work. Last one that WWE had was HBK vs Jericho.


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## Masked Legend (Jul 13, 2012)

I loved the match and i hope to see more of that stuff on AEW TV. That being said, It still wasn't as brutal as Dante Fox vs Killshot (last legit Deathmatch on TV) but it delivered.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

It was brutal, but in the sense that Edge & Christian used to use the word.


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## James Hurley (Oct 28, 2019)

Cooper09 said:


> I though the whole match looked desperate. Hey look at us, we're HARDCORE!!!


On face value that makes sense.
If you watched Mox's interview on Starrcast you could see how much anxiety this guy had bottled up over the last few years. 
He wanted to let it all out and go balls to the wall crazy and that's what he did.
Going by her tweets even his wife wasn't happy about the match.
He was lucky Omega was happy to go along with it.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Boldgerg said:


> Literally the opening line of the original post clearly shows that's not the case. Have you even read it?
> 
> And I care, because if snowflakes get their way by pissing and moaning because they think a fake wrestling match is too barbaric then we can kiss good bye to seeing proper hardcore matches like we saw tonight.


It's a good thing AEW markets itself as professional wrestling and the snowflakes like sports entertainment. 

There were snowflakes during ecw and nothing happened. Same with attitude era. Don't stress


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## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

Boldgerg said:


> How dumb do you have to be to miss the point I'm making, after I've clearly put it in plain English?
> 
> My point, to reiterate, is that such a mass overreaction towards a hardcore staged wrestling match is ridiculous, with people acting like it was real, genuine, life shortening brutality and shouldn't be allowed. It's pathetic.


The only legitimate difference between now and 20 years ago is our knowledge surrounding concussions - but the brutality from this match didn’t even involve the head. 

I guess it’s evidence of virtue signalling gone mad on social media, and how everyone tries to react in the way they think they should be seen to be reacting so they don’t get criticised for not being a good person. 

It’s so dumb.


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## candice-wrestling (Jul 21, 2017)

The mouse traps were unique, I don't think I've ever seen those utilised in wrestling before.


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## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

TommyWCECM said:


> Boldgerg said:
> 
> 
> > Literally the opening line of the original post clearly shows that's not the case. Have you even read it?
> ...


Back then, you could ignore it and nobody would notice.

Now, snowflakes have the power to judge you on social media, implying they’re better a person than you, because they are such thoughtful human beings. 

A written tweet lingers far longer than a spoken word did in 1997. Others see the tweets, and judgement piles up as more people take the chance to stick the boot in to prove they’re better people too.

Then they convince themselves they truly believe what they’re saying, because it’s all anyone is comfortable portraying online. 

Today’s ridiculous culture is a symptom of everyone shifting primary communication means to the written word. 

This leap in language medium has exposed intellectual gaps in human beings as a species.

We evolved to communicate face-to-face where tone, expression, body language etc conveyed a majority of what we wanted to get across... take all that out and you’re left with a world of idiots misunderstanding each other’s literal words, out of context, and jumping at the chance to think it’s evidence they’re better than others.


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## Daggdag (Jun 14, 2011)

If I am being honest, I really have no respect for hardcore wrestling. It takes no talent or skill. It's really the lowest form of wrestling, where people with no real talent end up.

I mean, would someone like Sandman or New Jack even have a career without it? No fucking way. And Mick Foley would never have become a legend without it. He wasn't that good as a straight wrestler. Tommy Dreamer too...Most people in ECW woudn't even have careers. 

Then there are the fans.....who were extremely bloodthirsty, and didn't give a shit about the wrestlers' health. They booed Lance Storm out of an area because he refused to use unprotected chair shots to his opponents.


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## GimmeABreakJess (Jan 30, 2011)

The thing that didn't make sense is that there wasn't significant blood. All the barbed wire and broken glass and screwdrivers...unrealistic that nobody ended up like Dustin vs Cody. Otherwise I thought it was very good.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

IronMan8 said:


> Back then, you could ignore it and nobody would notice.
> 
> Now, snowflakes have the power to judge you on social media, implying they’re better a person than you, because they are such thoughtful human beings.
> 
> ...


I'm aware of that but that shouldn't be a problem if aew doesn't try to be something that they are not.

Professional wrestling is a niche art form. Embrace that. Don't be WWE and become ashamed and opt for a mainstreamesque sports entertainment product.

Push the envelope don't conform unlessit's absolutely necessary. Also don't lean too far and become Joey Ryan level stupid.


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## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

The match was great and it was brutal. Just on a random sense I'd put in the top 15-20% of the most "brutal" in these type of no dq/hardcore/no rules matches. What added to its brutality was the creativity of the weapons like the glasses, the barbwires, the mouse trap, exposing the woods. Sure it's no explosive barbwire match but if you compare it with todays era it was as most brutal as it gets, if you compare with before it's still not that far off.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

GimmeABreakJess said:


> The thing that didn't make sense is that there wasn't significant blood. All the barbed wire and broken glass and screwdrivers...unrealistic that nobody ended up like Dustin vs Cody. Otherwise I thought it was very good.


Yeah they wanted it to feel brutal without grossing people out with all the blood. So as fun as the match was. They could have tone down screwdriver, glass spots if they weren't they were gonna keep a lot of blood from being in the match tho.


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## CMPunkRock316 (Jan 17, 2016)

It was an outstanding hardcore match. Some of those HIAC matches during the RA there was obscene amounts of blood but seemed like it was just bleeding to bleed. I loved the creativity of this. I didn't want it to end.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Hang on. Are the AEW trolls now suddenly becoming “anti-snowflake?” Have AEW gone and switched to the other end of the spectrum? 

It takes no talent to do what Mox and Omega did. It sets bad examples to kids, fans and people trying to get into the business. We know about the influence of ECW and the carnage that caused. Some will say that all violence is gratuitous, but this sort of stuff is cheesy and exploitative. Does anyone over the age of 15 actually think this sort of stuff is cool?

Hint: If it’s got glass involved, it’s not “pro-wrestling.”

It’s boring and gross. I heard that people were visibly leaving during the match too.


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## kingfrass44 (Sep 19, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Hang on. Are the AEW trolls now suddenly becoming “anti-snowflake?” Have AEW gone and switched to the other end of the spectrum?
> 
> It takes no talent to do what Mox and Omega did. It sets bad examples to kids, fans and people trying to get into the business. We know about the influence of ECW and the carnage that caused. Some will say that all violence is gratuitous, but this sort of stuff is cheesy and exploitative. Does anyone over the age of 15 actually think this sort of stuff is cool?
> 
> ...


It’s boring and gross This is your opinion and not the fact 
There are people who disagree with you
you trolls Not different from them
people leaving during the match minority
There are so many login during the match 
Where is your source


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

kingfrass44 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> > Hang on. Are the AEW trolls now suddenly becoming “anti-snowflake?” Have AEW gone and switched to the other end of the spectrum?
> ...


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Boldgerg said:


> In the real world, that is, even though it was a great hardcore wrestling match.
> 
> There are a lot of typical 2019 snowflakes (more so on social media than on here) acting like a staged wrestling match that featured a few pin prick cuts that might require a stitch or two and a few plasters was genuinely barbaric.
> 
> The truth is that any and every boxing, MMA, or any other legitimate combat sport fight is a hundred times more dangerous and brutal than what we saw tonight, and people need to chill the fuck out.


I liked it a lot in part because I don't want to see people actually getting hurt. Jeff Hardy doing a 20 foot dive onto his fucking spine on concrete was awesome when I was 14 or whatever, but at 31 that would genuinely upset me to see. They got a few gnarly cuts that aren't going to feel good for a few days and a couple of bumps probably hurt like a mother fucker but all told there was no Mick Foley permanent injuries here. 

I hope.

I bet Diaz took more lasting damage in his three round Mazvidal fight than these guys see in a year.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

It wasn't too brutal, but I think it got the message across, so it was fine. Huge props to both guys for achieving good storytelling, even in a hardcore spotfest like this.

It's amazing and hilarious reading all the comments from overly sensitive people saying that this was "gross", "disgusting" or "too far". Seems like in the past 10-15 years, WWE has conditioned marks to believe that it's normal to stop a match and have a doctor interfere for 5 minutes whenever there's even a hint of blood.

Here's a tip: If you were offended by this match or found it gross and think it went too far, watch something else. May I suggest Teletubbies?


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## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

I've seen a hell of a lot more violent/brutal/bloody matches, but they go to completely unnecessary levels.
I'd rather a match like this where it all tells a story and ties in together than a match with 50 knives put onto a table and a dude is thrown onto it.

Either way, this match WAS brutal. Just not fucked up levels of brutal.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

You people saying that was gratuitous and gross don't know the meaning of the word. Check out CZW. Panes of glass, cacti, cinderblocks and hell there's a guy who uses a fucking weed whacker. The gnarliest thing in the match was the spiderweb. That was nothing close to czw. And I hate CZW with a passion. Even though mox and Sami got their start there. 

Fuck randy molesting jeffs ear was visually more disturbing.


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## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

The people saying it was too far :heston. They told a story and did great brutal visuals, you know being brutal like this match should have been. If that match was gross or disgusting to you stick to PG WWE for hardcore No DQ matches I guess cause proper blood feud hardcore matches ain't for you :draper2


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Punkhead said:


> It wasn't too brutal, but I think it got the message across, so it was fine. Huge props to both guys for achieving good storytelling, even in a hardcore spotfest like this.
> 
> It's amazing and hilarious reading all the comments from overly sensitive people saying that this was "gross", "disgusting" or "too far". Seems like in the past 10-15 years, *WWE has conditioned marks to believe that it's normal to stop a match and have a doctor interfere for 5 minutes whenever there's even a hint of blood*.
> 
> Here's a tip: If you were offended by this match or found it gross and think it went too far, watch something else. May I suggest Teletubbies?


You mean like when ref and officials kept checking on Cody


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## Intimidator3 (Sep 28, 2019)

I’m not even a huge fan of hardcore stuff and loved this match. It was pretty sick. I thought Omega would kinda be out of place but he delivered. Loved the knee shot through the Full Gear logo. They came through with a good story in a gimmick match, that can be hard to do sometimes since the story can easily get lost amongst the plunder. And the fact they made people uncomfortable or whatever really lets me know they did their job. Those boys put in some good work on that match.


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## Stevieg786 (Apr 2, 2017)

That match was fucking amazing


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## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

Alvarez and Meltzer are already crying about the match on WOR :booklel

Damn, some people react like this match represents AEW or smth. Not every Moxley match will be like this. Not every Omega match will be like this. It was unsanctioned for a reason - they told you before the match that the show is over, so calm the fuck down, watch it and don't complain or go home.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> You mean like when ref and officials kept checking on Cody


For all the supposed brutality in Mox/Omega, neither of them were bleeding as much as Cody was. Hmmm.

Alvarez and Meltzer made it sound like Mox and Omega were both gushing LOL


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

RBrooks said:


> Alvarez and Meltzer are already crying about the match on WOR :booklel
> 
> Damn, some people react like this match represents AEW or smth. Not every Moxley match will be like this. Not every Omega match will be like this. It was unsanctioned for a reason - they told you before the match that the show is over, so calm the fuck down, watch it and don't complain or go home.


I fucking facepalmed as soon as I heard their reaction.

Alvarez is literally on the ground rolling around laughing about how stupid and silly and toothless Hell in a Cell became in the looney toones company, then he's bitching that AEW gives you a perfectly safe match that actually feels like it lived up to the promise of violence from the build.

I think being on the older side and both guys being fathers really tends to soften you up. I'm 31 and I wince at what I consider dumb spots like the Coffin Drop onto the apron, but come the fuck on you pussies. It was sugar glass and a gimmicked bed of barbed wire, fucking relax your pearl clutching.


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## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

MontyCora said:


> I fucking facepalmed as soon as I heard their reaction.
> 
> Alvarez is literally on the ground rolling around laughing about how stupid and silly and toothless Hell in a Cell became in the looney toones company, then he's bitching that AEW gives you a perfectly safe match that actually feels like it lived up to the promise of violence from the build.
> 
> I think being on the older side and both guys being fathers really tends to soften you up. I'm 31 and I wince at what I consider dumb spots like the Coffin Drop onto the apron, but come the fuck on you pussies. It was sugar glass and a gimmicked bed of barbed wire, fucking relax your pearl clutching.


Yeah, that's what I thought. He shat all over that DQ in HIAC, but THIS is too far? As I've said, knowing Moxley, I was expecting worse, much worse actually. 

They don't know if the barbed wire and glass were gimmicked, though, so it's partly understandable. I'm not sure of it too, but hey, they didn't complain about Darby Allin, and he does that stupid apron fall every fucking time (I've seen like 3 of his matches, and he did it 2 times). Never heard those complaints, but THOSE spots were pretty stupid and unsafe.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

The Wood said:


> Hang on. Are the AEW trolls now suddenly becoming “anti-snowflake?” Have AEW gone and switched to the other end of the spectrum?
> 
> It takes no talent to do what Mox and Omega did. It sets bad examples to kids, fans and people trying to get into the business. We know about the influence of ECW and the carnage that caused. Some will say that all violence is gratuitous, but this sort of stuff is cheesy and exploitative. Does anyone over the age of 15 actually think this sort of stuff is cool?
> 
> ...


Lol first of all they didn't show anyone walking out during the match. The crowd was going crazy for the match that went almost 40 minutes long. The difference between this hardcore match and no skill one. Is Moxley/Omega actually used wrestling moves with spots. A few things seemed little too gruesome at the times. 


But now that the match is over and you realize 90 percent of the match was safe with gimmicked stuff. It doesn't feel as brutal and more enjoyable with 2nd viewing. Neither guy was a bloody mess or anything and finish gave us something we haven't seen in main stream wrestling before. With taking ring apart and doing the finish wrestling moves on the wood. Its got mix reaction from dirt sheet guys. But majority of fans loved what they did to make this match stand out and be talked about for a while.


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## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

Well duh it wasn't brutal like real sports. We weren’t going to get Takayama-Frye or any other brutal combat sports encounter. Even within the standards of pro wrestling, we weren’t going to get electrified barbed wire, a bed of nails, and flippin' C4 either, or live scorpions or piranhas or whatever they do in Japanese deathmatches these days. Only way match could have gotten more brutal would have been if fire got involved, someone was thrown hard onto concrete from a very high place, someone got covered in thumbtacks, they brought in lightubes and cinderblocks, and someone was wearing crimson mask to the point it broke the Muta Scale. But that might have been too much, especially with that crowd that was shocked for a match like that which was more or less normal in the Attitude and Ruthless Aggression Eras, at least with Mick Foley matches.

Moxley and Omega didn’t need to go to such extremes though. What they depicted worked for the kind of match they did. If some fans thought what was going on was too brutal, well, I cant help them. It wasn't like blood was literally gushing like a fountain or anyone got a nasty gash like Cody did in the match before this.


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Of course fucking Meltzer pushed the narrative that it turned fans off the product when the match has been universally praised and only a vocal minority are complaining about it. What a clown.


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## SPCDRI (Mar 15, 2010)

In terms of 1980s and 1990s Japanese deathmatches where people were maimed and mutilated, and the outlaw "mutant league" shows in America that the overwhelming majority of the public is unfamiliar with, this was NOT brutal. 

However, in terms of mainstream American wrestling, this was bananas by the bushel. This was CRAZY. 
The crowd was freaking out, the reaction on social media was huge. Nobody in live attendance, nobody in that crowd, thought Moxley/Omega was going to go that far. I bet the typical person thought it'd be a 20 minute hardcore match similar to WWE's PG-era output with maybe one thing a little "crazier" like one thumb tack spot like Moxley/Janela. That's what I thought. The crowd didn't know they were in for 40 minutes of THAT. So far as mainstream, not mutants mutilating each other wrestling, GCW, Impact and MLW are basically it, and as much as I or anybody else likes them, and I love MLW, they are "bingo parlor." They are nowhere near as big as top 20 cable, 500,000+ watching, PPV buys 100k+, 10,000 in attendance.

No major company in the United States has done anything that touches Moxley/Omega in YEARS.
No mainstream company did any hardcore match this crazy in about a decade. They pushed it to the limit. The envelope couldn't have been pushed harder without them jeopardizing sponsors, advertisers and a cable deal.


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## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

What people were waiting for ?

For weeks they hinted and said that this match would be extreme, violent….


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## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

The video of Dave and Bryan trashing the match almost has more dislikes than likes, something you never see with one of their videos. 

This is one where they got it wrong.


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## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

If nothing else, this match highlighted Omega’s range. The match _looked_ sick, and he looked like he was enjoying the carnage as much as Mox. And how often do you see a hardcore match with actual storytelling? That was art. 

Anybody who thought it was too brutal and wished they had turned it off, I’m sorry, but why exactly are you watching wrestling again? Oh, right — for the promos.


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## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

The other thing that they missed is that this match has people talking in a huge way, of course its polarizing but its definitely generating a buzz. 

They delivered something for everyone last night. Cody and Jericho told the old school title story and Mox and Omega gave you guerilla warfare. 

Too many fans wanting one type of the same thing.


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## Darkest Lariat (Jun 12, 2013)

kay


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## NascarStan (Mar 26, 2019)

Who the fuck actually spent $50 bucks on a PPV with an Unsanctioned match between Jon Moxley and Kenny Omega would then turn around and be turned off of the product?

I like Meltzer and Alvarez but they sound so stupid in this. Everyone heading into this match were expecting and Mox/Omega delivered on the promise of an actual hardcore match.

On the actual hardcore not including the pussified version of "extreme rules" match wwe shits out this match was mid tier on the death match scale, seen far crazier shit in czw and Japan.

Also fyi those Strong Style NJPW matches Dave drools over are fsr more dangerous than this match was


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

V-Trigger said:


> Seriously. What's the point of this thread?


It's a fucking discussion forum. More marks chiming in with 'UR OPINION INVALID HURR DURRP.

Sick of seeing this reply.


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## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

The fact that people were squicked out by the match proves how used the fans are to the WWE method of wrestling. I haven't watched all of it yet, but most of that wouldn't have batted an eye 20 years ago. Shit, Impact was doing some of that less than 10 years ago.


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## King of Sports (Sep 1, 2015)

Boldgerg said:


> In the real world, that is, even though it was a great hardcore wrestling match.
> 
> There are a lot of typical 2019 snowflakes (more so on social media than on here) acting like a staged wrestling match that featured a few pin prick cuts that might require a stitch or two and a few plasters was genuinely barbaric.
> 
> The truth is that any and every boxing, MMA, or any other legitimate combat sport fight is a hundred times more dangerous and brutal than what we saw tonight, and people need to chill the fuck out.


I agree for the most part, but I've personally seen quite a few deathmatches that were far more dangerous than a typical MMA fight. I was there live when Nick Gage got heli-vac'ed because a lighttube slit the artery under his arm at a CZW show 10 years ago (Moxley wrestled on that show as well).

Anyways, I loved the match last night. It did seem like a very tame "death match" and I wasn't shocked in any way, shape, or form because I've seen hundreds of them. I can understand why some people who aren't used to it might not be able to stomach it too well, but the bottom line was that it was exciting and gives Moxley an edge to him that sets him apart from the rest. 

I love that AEW is really bringing variety to their shows and have wrestlers that specialize in the hardcore style. I appreciate all styles of wrestling and am glad that hardcore matches are finally getting mainstream attention again (especially stomaching WWE's version of "hardcore" for years)

I was also thrilled to see Omega really getting into the hardcore style--which further convinces me that he is one of the GOATS. He can truly work any match-type imaginable; his versatility is unreal!


----------



## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

Geeee said:


> For all the supposed brutality in Mox/Omega, neither of them were bleeding as much as Cody was. Hmmm.
> 
> Alvarez and Meltzer made it sound like Mox and Omega were both gushing LOL


Yeah, I was thinking this as well. If you really took a moment to think about it, the fact that neither of these guys were gushing blood should tell you that a lot of it was rigged. If the bat and the broom weren’t enough, the barbed wire trampoline thingie should have torn them both to shreds. There was a little blood to make you think it was real, but nowhere near as much as if it really was real. If you stopped to think about it. The sick bumps on the exposed ring boards, though, you can’t fake that — that had to hurt, but no worse than high-impact spots on the floor or entrance ramp. 

These guys (Meltzer and Alvarez) have been around long enough that they should know better. I’m not really sure what their beef is. It was a great match by two great performers with some brutal looking props and theatrics. Wahhhhhh.


----------



## Matthew Castillo (Jun 9, 2018)

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Yeah, I was thinking this as well. If you really took a moment to think about it, the fact that neither of these guys were gushing blood should tell you that a lot of it was rigged. If the bat and the broom weren’t enough, the barbed wire trampoline thingie should have torn them both to shreds. There was a little blood to make you think it was real, but nowhere near as much as if it really was real. If you stopped to think about it. The sick bumps on the exposed ring boards, though, you can’t fake that — that had to hurt, but no worse than high-impact spots on the floor or entrance ramp.
> 
> These guys (Meltzer and Alvarez) have been around long enough that they should know better. I’m not really sure what their beef is. It was a great match by two great performers with some brutal looking props and theatrics. Wahhhhhh.


I'll be honest the only thing that made me cringe was bringing out a screwdriver, and that was more for what I thought they might do with it than what the actually did.


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

I agree. Modern people are hypocritically chickenhearted.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Yeah the more I think about this match the more it really perfectly encapsulates the hypocrisy of pro wrestling fans and media. 

They've all clamored for years for something outside of the PG realm of WWE and now they get it, and they say it's too much. Kenny and Mox set a bar last night that likely may not ever be topped again or if it is not for a very long time.


----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Some people need to keep in mind that most wrestling fans probably never watched deathmatches, promotions like CZW, or anything that really could be found outside of the street fights WWE might do. In their eyes, this probably was insane or brutal, which would make sense if they aren't used to this type of thing. On the flip side, if you are a avid deathmatch viewer, of course this wouldn't seem as brutal or insane given some of the stuff insane deathmatch guys do. 

For I think the majority of the general public, this possibly could come across as overdone, which on occasion is okay. There can be legit criticism brought to this match that is fair, and you'll also get people like in Dave and Bryan's case who aren't fans of them doing as much as they did, which is also okay (both of them were never big fans of this type of match).


----------



## The Sheik (Jul 10, 2017)

They had a few cuts but nothing significant. I expected way more blood from a match that featured broken glass.


----------



## Lethal Evans (Dec 18, 2013)

Boldgerg said:


> What a load of bull.
> 
> In that case people are overreacting to the fact that I'm overreacting to people overreacting... how far shall we spin and flip that around and around?


Until you stop posting would probably be best.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

I wonder if Meltzer and Alvarez felt some pressure to have a negative opinion about AEW. They were being accused of being on the payroll.


----------



## BarackYoMama (Mar 26, 2009)

Me and the people I was watching with in an Xbox Party last night enjoyed it. Even when we was like oh shit, and just basically feeling the pain by just watching. Still was enjoyable and fun. Just hope it isn't something they do TOOOOOOOOOOOO often. Just when it fits for the feud.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

No they are notorious for not really liking hardcore type matches. 

They said the match went too long but if they had done a G1 style match that went the same length I guarantee you wouldn't have heard a complaint.


----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Taroostyles said:


> No they are notorious for not really liking hardcore type matches.
> 
> They said the match went too long but if they had done a G1 style match that went the same length I guarantee you wouldn't have heard a complaint.


Notorious isn't the right word, but I've listened to them for years now and both of them have never been fans of hardcore matches. Dave treats matches like this in the same vein of how he can never really enjoy a good comedy match.

If there is one complaint that can be easily understood, it's the length. 40 minutes for anybody is really long, and they could have easily cut that down but at least 10 min.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

I would like to see Omega and Moxley have a straight Wrestling match at some point, given that this one doesn't get counted for the record, I think we are due of that.


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

How the fuck was that match too long? It flew by.


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

V-Trigger said:


> How the fuck was that match too long? It flew by.


What? The shit was almost 40 minutes and felt like it took an eternity. Even on the payroll Meltzer said it took forever.

Look, I liked it. I did., but it did go too long. No holds barred matches shouldnt go that long, takes away from the heat and intensity. 

Plus, either go real with all of it or don't. The real barbed wire on the bat and broom cutting them open instantly was an awesome visual. Then they FALL ON A BED WITH HUNDREDS OF STRANDS OF BARBED WIRE and dont bleed at all. Immersion gone. Took me right out of the match.

Again, I liked it, and with Cody vs. Jericho, it was one of the saving graces of the show. However, it had glaring flaws.


----------



## somerandomfan (Dec 13, 2013)

I feel like this was that middle point between mainstream hardcore and full on deathmatch, I'd say it was deathmatch-lite, I've seen way more brutal things in deathmatches with way more blood but at the same time this was mostly safe, assuming everyone is tested a bunch of small cuts don't do lasting damage and there wasn't anything super innovative either. Even the spider web it isn't too new, I've seen boxes of that in CZW, I've seen matches in japan and in CZW in where just the whole ring was covered with that kind of thing.







candice-wrestling said:


> The mouse traps were unique, I don't think I've ever seen those utilised in wrestling before.


As far as a mainstream company it's new but those go way back in terms of deathmatches, hell before I saw them bring out the board I saw one of them under the ring and knew to expect that. Hell I've even seen Moxley use a board of them before.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Match didnt feel too long to me. It was a grudge match 6 months in the making, it needed to go 30+.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

I love the people who take their case for a generality…..


----------



## Ray McCarthy (Jun 9, 2018)

That match was a lot of fun. If people found it too brutal then they had the option of not simply watching. I get that some people don’t like hardcore wrestling but the match catered for a specific audience - the type of fan that DOES enjoy hardcore wrestling. They told us very plainly beforehand what to expect so if people were upset it they need to remember that it was their choice to watch it. I would like to see AEW go hardcore again from time to time, but not all the time. The trouble I had with CZW was that I became utterly desensitised to the brutality because it was too frequent. If AEW go hardcore like that every now and again, it’ll have much more impact.



The Inbred Goatman said:


> I would like to see Omega and Moxley have a straight Wrestling match at some point, given that this one doesn't get counted for the record, I think we are due of that.


I think we’ll get one. Maybe a #1 Contender match at some point soon. It would make sense.


----------



## Trivette (Dec 30, 2013)

I'm a big fan of hardcore and death matches in general, going way back to the 80's. As others have said, this was "deathmatch-lite" all things considered. In many cases, less is more. Overall it was a fine synthesis of that style performed by two consummate professionals. It wasn't two yokels in a gym who barely know what they're doing and taking senseless bumps. The extra steps they took to ensure one another's safety was evident without taking too much away from the illusion. The table spot was especially well executed, for example.


----------



## Cataclysm (Sep 8, 2019)

Now imagine showing some of these people a typical BJW main event lol


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Cody’s cut was more brutal and cringe inducing than anything I saw in Moxley vs Omega. 

But the thing is, we gotta see it from the other side. If you had no clue how they play around with the barbed wire, shit looked brutal. 

We gotta stop overthinking . Take it for face value. We don’t watch, idk, a movie and think “yeah they using sugar glass out here” or “that barbed wire is gimmicked”

Like chill dawgs. If people are criticising the match for brutality, AEW got their message across. Stop whining. And stop talking about backyard promotions. Majority of casual people have never seen those cesspool promotions.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

Meltzer is a hack. Match was awesome.


----------



## MrThortan (Apr 9, 2018)

Loved it. Not a match they should do every show, but it certainly has its place. The glass bit was interesting, and it had me wondering how they did it. The screwdriver was stupid though. As far as too much, or too gruesome, Nick Diaz had a vagina split open above his eye on the last UFC PPV that was worse than anything we saw tonight. So glad to have an alternative to the PG era.


----------



## Stevieg786 (Apr 2, 2017)

MrThortan said:


> Loved it. Not a match they should do every show, but it certainly has its place. The glass bit was interesting, and it had me wondering how they did it. The screwdriver was stupid though. As far as too much, or too gruesome, Nick Diaz had a vagina split open above his eye on the last UFC PPV that was worse than anything we saw tonight. So glad to have an alternative to the PG era.


Nate not Nick


----------



## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

I liked the match but thought it went on too long and not convinced the ending was right. Terry Funk did this stuff every week in the 80s and 90s it's not that groundbreaking or anything. Mox in danger of becoming a one trick pony.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

I get the push back - how many times has AEW gone to this well in it's very short existence? Folks are worried they'll keep pushing the envelope further. Outrage causes the unprotected chair shot to be shitcanned even if it was gimmicked and botched. How much is enough with Tony Khan who has never taken a bump in his life? Sure you can say "Hey Mox and Omega want to do it"? But sometimes you have to protect wrestlers from themselves as they'll always want to one-up each other and then you have a young dumb Joey Janela being thrown off a roof for 25 people. 

And this match is usually after a long blood feud, not the first singles encounter. 

I watch this and remember the original debut angle for Dean Ambrose in WWE -


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Stevieg786 said:


> Nate not Nick



And I believe the correct historical terminology/descriptor from Joe Rogan is "goats vagina".


----------



## somerandomfan (Dec 13, 2013)

See if Alvarez and Meltzer got ratio'd because of disliking that match, can you imagine the like/dislike ratio whenever Cornette posts his thoughts? Because there's a 99.99% you can slice down all he says to "This CZW fucking geek and this comedy loser who jobbed to a fucking 9 year old are making a joke of this business with that garbage wrestling bullshit they pulled on the show." (Also I'm sure you just read that in Cornette's voice)


----------



## dele (Feb 21, 2005)

>Wrestler potatoes his fellow wrestler with stiff forearms, fists, and kicks to the head. Then spikes him on his head 3 times to go home

OMG THIS IS WRESTLING

>Two wrestlers with a significant beef blow off their feud with a good deathmatch where they protect one another and still deliver on some awesome violence

OMG THAT'S NOT WRESTLING

:lbjwut:eyeroll



Daggdag said:


> If I am being honest, I really have no respect for hardcore wrestling. It takes no talent or skill. It's really the lowest form of wrestling, where people with no real talent end up.
> 
> I mean, would someone like Sandman or New Jack even have a career without it? No fucking way. And Mick Foley would never have become a legend without it. He wasn't that good as a straight wrestler. Tommy Dreamer too...Most people in ECW woudn't even have careers.
> 
> Then there are the fans.....who were extremely bloodthirsty, and didn't give a shit about the wrestlers' health. They booed Lance Storm out of an area because he refused to use unprotected chair shots to his opponents.


Nice projection by bringing up stuff that happened 20+ years ago to describe wrestling fans who want to see deathmatches today. Fuck, does that make Jerry Lawler and Terry Funk garbage wrestlers? After all, the deathmatch style that caught on in Philly and Tokyo was clearly lifted from those styles. Then again, you're not actually interested in good story telling, you just want to virtue signal.



The Wood said:


> Hang on. Are the AEW trolls now suddenly becoming “anti-snowflake?” Have AEW gone and switched to the other end of the spectrum?
> 
> It takes no talent to do what Mox and Omega did. It sets bad examples to kids, fans and people trying to get into the business. We know about the influence of ECW and the carnage that caused. Some will say that all violence is gratuitous, but this sort of stuff is cheesy and exploitative. Does anyone over the age of 15 actually think this sort of stuff is cool?
> 
> ...


It takes a TON of talent to do what those guys did. They built up a feud that has been simmering for months, drew a ton of people to the arena and PPV, and then protected each other in a really violent, really good match match.

I'm sure you take the same critical thinking that you have with hardcore wrestling towards matches that are nothing but gymnastic competitions. Because that's MUCH more realistic than two dudes who don't like each other beating each other up.

Also "it sets a bad example for kids." 
:tysonlol:evans:kdotlol:banderasWat?:HA:chad:heston












The Inbred Goatman said:


> I would like to see Omega and Moxley have a straight Wrestling match at some point, given that this one doesn't get counted for the record, I think we are due of that.


God I hope so. This feud is fucking money.


----------



## Intimidator3 (Sep 28, 2019)

The glass coming from the coffee table was a nice touch from the story. Then Mox dragging himself through it while in the scorpion was a damn good spot.


----------



## 45banshee (Jan 7, 2019)

This is the genius part of Kenny and Jon. The match was depicted as very brutal without actually hurting one another in excruciating pain.

There were two spots I noticed were it should have been way worse than they were.

When Moxley was crawling through all the shattered glass. JRs commentary made it seem like Mox was scrapping his stomach on the glass when really his upper body was off the mat as he crawled.

The second spot I picked up on was the trapoline blanked in ropes of barbed wire. When they both go through it your like OHH MYY GODD!! 

Yet when I saw there backs after that spot..not a single drop of blood. There were no punctured wounds or rolling blood going down there backs. 

They made you THINK they were seriously hurting each other when really they weren't.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

It's weird 90 percent of fans seem to love this much. Most of push back is from the wrestling media. It's almost like they need to be on the record of not liking something like this. Saying stuff like it's not needed and act concern about wrestlers health. To make sure PC world we live in doesn't go after them. Because we are suppose to be concerned about people safety in this appears brutal. Even though they could have had a regular wrestling match and been just as banged up afterwards. 


FWIW Meltzer have Janela/Omega and Janela/Moxley Light Out matches 4.25 stars lol. I'm willing to bet he gives Moxley/Omega similar rating or better. After he got all the PR crap out of the way. Even Sean Ross Sapp was saying it's not for him. Then you listen to post show and it sounds like he liked it. But he's scared to admit that.


----------



## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

The Inbred Goatman said:


> I would like to see Omega and Moxley have a straight Wrestling match at some point, given that this one doesn't get counted for the record, I think we are due of that.


Not now, though. Let's revisit the feud when either of guys is a world champion. Right now if feels like a blow-off and it doesn't need to continue.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

RBrooks said:


> Not now, though. Let's revisit the feud when either of guys is a world champion. Right now if feels like a blow-off and it doesn't need to continue.


I agree, and Omega should not be losing any matches for a long time, he needs to be running through guys now, let him run through guys like Shawn Spears, Kip Sabian, Darby Allin etc. etc. en route to ultimately getting a title shot sometime in 2020, more promos from Omega must happen now too.


----------



## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

The Inbred Goatman said:


> I agree, and Omega should not be losing any matches for a long time, he needs to be running through guys now, let him run through guys like Shawn Spears, Kip Sabian, Darby Allin etc. etc. en route to ultimately getting a title shot sometime in 2020, more promos from Omega must happen now too.


We'll see on TV this week, we don't know what the plans are for both guys at the moment. Also, idk about Omega cutting more promos. Don't get me wrong, he has a presence of somebody that matters, he's a great wrestler, but so far I wasn't impressed with him on the mic. TV audience needs to be told about him and who he is more, but I don't know if AEW would want to expose his bad sides.


----------



## Buhalovski (Jul 24, 2015)

Loved the brutality of the match simply because I cant see anything similar in other companies I follow. 

I actually dont think they are hurt at all. If someone lays in real barb wire multiple times he would most likely end up in the emergency.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

RBrooks said:


> We'll see on TV this week, we don't know what the plans are for both guys at the moment. Also, idk about Omega cutting more promos. Don't get me wrong, he has a presence of somebody that matters, he's a great wrestler, but so far I wasn't impressed with him on the mic. TV audience needs to be told about him and who he is more, but I don't know if AEW would want to expose his bad sides.


Omega is quirky on the mic, definitely not for everyone, but you need to expose that side of him. Maybe your one where is promo style doesn't resonate with you, but that's not applicable for everyone(hell I don't really dig his promo style but I know a lot of people who do).

Looks like Omega won't be on TV this week either based on his tweet.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

thisissting said:


> I liked the match but thought it went on too long and not convinced the ending was right. Terry Funk did this stuff every week in the 80s and 90s it's not that groundbreaking or anything. Mox in danger of becoming a one trick pony.


Omega has had as many Lights Out matches as Moxley. Why does he get labeled as this lol. Plus it's not like they just walked up to each other and took turns hitting each other or took turns falling on stuff with no wrestling at all. These guys were doing a bunch of wrestling moves on each other on things or with the weapons. That is why the match was good. It took some skill then your normal Indies hardcore match.


----------



## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Omega is quirky on the mic, definitely not for everyone, but you need to expose that side of him. Maybe your one where is promo style doesn't resonate with you, but that's not applicable for everyone(hell I don't really dig his promo style but I know a lot of people who do).
> 
> Looks like Omega won't be on TV this week either based on his tweet.


Maybe I just haven't seen enough from him, he really never cuts promos. But let's take those video packages where he's talking about Moxley. He wasn't really that good there. He was decent, fine, but nothing really special. Wasn't awful, of course. But if you're can't shine in an edited video, idk how are you gonna do in front of a live crowd. 

I would entertain the idea of Omega turning on the Elite and cutting a live promo on those guys, but I have absolutely no clue how it would look and sound :lol


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

RBrooks said:


> Not now, though. Let's revisit the feud when either of guys is a world champion. Right now if feels like a blow-off and it doesn't need to continue.


Yeah for purpose of the storyline another Omega/Moxley match anytime soon makes no sense. AEW had to make this a non-sacation match due to the attacks they had on each other from Double Or Nothing, Fyter Fest and TV. Not to mention all the promos they cut on each other. 


So AEW felt it was too risky to be liable for this match. There was too much built up hatered from both guys having to wait near 6 months to get their hands on each other. So after they had a near 40 minute match that was very brutal and violent. 


AEW can't say ok let them have a regular match now lol. For storyline wise they would only be able to do another nonsacation match and it would be silly to have another one of this matches between these two guys.

There needs to be at least 3 to 6 month cooling off period. Before it makes sense for them to wrestle again.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

RBrooks said:


> Maybe I just haven't seen enough from him, he really never cuts promos. But let's take those video packages where he's talking about Moxley. He wasn't really that good there. He was decent, fine, but nothing really special. Wasn't awful, of course. But if you're can't shine in an edited video, idk how are you gonna do in front of a live crowd.


Omega's done good live promo work in NJPW, but again, his promo style is off putting to some. He's incredibly quirky and a bit goofy, and that's not going to click with everyone, but it's way better than him just being a faceless great wrestler, which is what he is now.


----------



## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

imthegame19 said:


> There needs to be at least 3 to 6 month cooling off period. Before it makes sense for them to wrestle again.


I'd take at least a year, honestly. Only if AEW will start producing PPVs more often in the coming months, than we can revisit earlier, but in the distant future both guys need to focus on something else. That's why AEW probably needs to sign more big enough names to rotate the cards as much as possible. They don't have a lot of main eventers, so all of these guys constantly fighting each other will become boring and just wouldn't matter at some point, like it became in TNA.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

LOL reading the reactions of people and some Alvarez tweets before the match, I thought this would be way worse than it actually was. It was actually pretty fun, my favorite hardcore match since Pentagon Jr vs Vampiro in the first Ultima Lucha. They had creative spots, and most of the stuff was gimmicked, so it wasn't nearly as brutal as it looked.

The barbed wire on the baseball bat and broom was likely real and they used it on each other's backs for the most part. The barbed wire table on which Mox suplexed Omega was definitely gimmicked, and the glass was sugar glass, movies use it all the time lol. Seeing Alvarez and Meltzer freak out over it is hilarious, some of the Misawa/Kobashi matches Dave gushes over have way worse bumps that caused lasting damage. This was pretty safe in comparison. The bumps on the wooden panels were the worst part, if anything, and they'll be fine after that honestly.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

RBrooks said:


> I'd take at least a year, honestly. Only if AEW will start producing PPVs more often in the coming months, than we can revisit earlier, but in the distant future both guys need to focus on something else. That's why AEW probably needs to sign more big enough names to rotate the cards as much as possible. They don't have a lot of main eventers, so all of these guys constantly fighting each other will become boring and just wouldn't matter at some point, like it became in TNA.



With only one two hour show and with how much time they want to spend on Tag/Woman's and mid card title coming soon. I don't think adding more big names is the answer at all. They already are having a hard time fitting every thing on tv as is.


Having Moxley, Jericho, Omega, Cody, Pac and Page as top six is a good base for 1 two hour show for the time being. Especially considering they haven't even used Jake Hager or MJF yet in feuds yet. While Dustin Rhodes still has value to use in a upper card feud as well. 


Sure it would be nice to add another name or two as they come available next year. But they also want to build up Sammy Guvevera, Darby Allin, Kip Sabian, Joey Janela and as long as Tully is with Spears. Hes gonna be a threat in mid to upper card. 


I don't think you want a WWE situation when you have 10-12 guys who could rotate between mid card title feud and world title feud depending on the month. Very few guys get over as top guys when the roster is like that. AEW is better off having 6-8 top guys and another 2-4 guys to build up or mix in with those guys like they currently have. 


AEW just needs to get better at not doing matches like Pac/Hangman, Pac/Moxley for free on tv. At least Moxley/Pac they planted seeds for future match/feud with draw outcome. But people are gonna be tired of seeing Pac/Hangman after this week. If you aren't even using that match as a t.v. main event. Well then you shouldn't be doing it on tv again IMO. 


There's other ways to create fun tv matches. One would to be use tag guys who aren't involved in title scene. I love what they did with Trent/Pac last week with Best Friends not doing anything. Daniels is another great asset to use in tv matches vs top of the card talent. Since he's not holding a tag title right now. So we don't need three Pac/Hangman matches within 7 weeks. Not with how the roster is constructed now. AEW basically is going to cause fans to not wanna see that match again for at least six plus months now.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

RBrooks said:


> Alvarez and Meltzer are already crying about the match on WOR <img src="http://i.imgur.com/hLsjoEw.png" border="0" alt="" title="Booker" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> Damn, some people react like this match represents AEW or smth. Not every Moxley match will be like this. Not every Omega match will be like this. It was unsanctioned for a reason - they told you before the match that the show is over, so calm the fuck down, watch it and don't complain or go home.


This should tell you something. Meltzer and Alvarez have been extremely biased towards AEW and even they can’t get on board with this. 

It is indicative of what AEW is. It was the main event of a PPV people paid $50 for.


----------



## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

imthegame19 said:


> There's other ways to create fun tv matches. One would to be use tag guys who aren't involved in title scene. I love what they did with Trent/Pac last week with Best Friends not doing anything. Daniels is another great asset to use in tv matches vs top of the card talent. Since he's not holding a tag title right now. So we don't need three Pac/Hangman matches within 7 weeks. Not with how the roster is constructed now. AEW basically is going to cause fans to not wanna see that match again for at least six plus months now.


Yeah, I rolled my eyes at the announcement of another Pac and Page match. Just get it over with already, they had the PPV match which felt like a blow-off, so if you do this again, then Pac needs retribution, and it's 50-50 booking at this point. And tbf, their matches are not doing anything for me. They are fine, but I'm not feeling the excitement, nor the need to do them over and over. 



The Wood said:


> This should tell you something. Meltzer and Alvarez have been extremely biased towards AEW and even they can’t get on board with this.
> 
> It is indicative of what AEW is. It was the main event of a PPV people paid $50 for.


About that. Everybody says 50$ while I'm sitting here on FITE TV and spending only 19.99$ on the show. What's going on? Is this only a deal for a non-USA countries?


----------



## 45banshee (Jan 7, 2019)

Now this is BRUTAL

Axl vs Ian in a Tapei deathmatch.

I like hardcore matchs and even I cant stomach some of this shit 

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3x9bdo


----------



## greasykid1 (Dec 22, 2015)

Honestly, I did expect more blood. It does detract from the whole idea of a match being "brutal" and certainly "unsanctioned" when at the end of the match, neither really has much blood showing. In terms of brutality and long-lasting effect on the wrestlers, Cody V Dustin had more impact in that regard.

This is a far cry from the likes of the Death Matches that some of the "trashier" feds gave us in the 90s, or the Japanese matches we've seen with the likes of Mick Foley. But I think this is how is needs to be in a mainstream, prime time, TV product like AEW. This is as far as they can really go.

I think the match told a brilliant story, the depiction of pure hatred and violence was very good. Naturally, the glass and the barbed wire were gimmicked, the spots were all done safely and well planned. This is how it should be! It came across as a brutal fight, with some really nice moments of violence ... but both men will recover from their flesh wounds quickly, and it hasn't taken years off of anyone's career.

I can't understand the silly reactions saying it's too violent etc. The very same people that keep talking about how we should go back to the Attitude Era or the days of ECW. Really only goes to show that a lot of these people never actually saw the ECW level of violence.

This was a modern day hardcore match, with some great spots, but ultimately ensuring the safety of the performers.
Props to all involved.


----------



## Natecore (Sep 16, 2013)

No, it was brutal.

They just don’t need to do it. Garbage wresting is exactly that, Garbage. I’m not into prowrestling to watch people cut each other with sharp objects. Any talentless hack can do that. 

I don’t find it edgy or cool. It’s annoying and barbaric. I’m embarrassed to watch it.

Edited down I’d have kept the barbwire bat and broom and the spot through the Full Gear set. Everything else I’d have thrown in the garbage.


----------



## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

So judging by those after party photos, Moxley is completely fine. Now was this hardcore match REALLY a big deal? Alvarez and Meltzer, and all the soft girls for that matter, could calm down with the whining.


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Alvarez is such an idiot that doesn't even pay attention to the build up to the match.

"It went from spot to spot without reason"

The chain line was used during the promos.

The Crystal Coffee table was used during the build up.

The barbed wire weapons were used in the build up

He's not going to change his tone because it brings him $ from the people that subscribe to the observer and call to the shows.


----------



## Nothing Finer (Apr 12, 2017)

I wouldn't want to see a match much more brutal than that, but I thought it was awesome.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

V-Trigger said:


> Alvarez is such a retard that doesn't even pay attention to the build up to the match.
> 
> "It went from spot to spot without reason"
> 
> ...


First of all, fuck your ableist language. That should be a ban right there. 

Secondly, weapons like that being used in a wrestling match don't make sense. You will play apologist for anything Omega does. Chainsaw Charlie used to come out with a chainsaw -- it doesn't mean using one in a wrestling match is "reasonable." It doesn't mean that how they used them was reasonable, nor that the structure and flow of the match was reasonable. You are taking foreshadowing, which foreshadowed off-putting things and are using that to justify it from all angles. Nice try. 

Thirdly, Alvarez has been on the dick of AEW since the start for that very reason. It's funny how when he criticizes it suddenly he's the devil.


----------



## dele (Feb 21, 2005)

45banshee said:


> Now this is BRUTAL
> 
> Axl vs Ian in a Tapei deathmatch.
> 
> ...


Suddenly I really want some Taco Bell....


----------



## Pablo Escobar (Mar 22, 2007)

My 2 cents... 

Most the stuff in that match wasn't needed. Why put one of the greatest wrestlers in the world in a garbage match. Then, they went overboard with the spots. Table with mouse traps.... was that really needed?? It ended being a pretty good hardcore match, BUT the over the top stunts with little/no blood kind of took away from spots like crawling on glass. Trust me, i don't like seeing blood when watching, but like if your going to throw on glass/ barb wire cage... you'd probably be bleeding a bit more than a scratching. Cody bled more during his match. 

Long story short, keep Omega out of these matches, and let the wrestlers who lack talent like Janela/Moxley kill themselves.


----------



## Intimidator3 (Sep 28, 2019)

V-Trigger said:


> Alvarez is such an idiot that doesn't even pay attention to the build up to the match.
> 
> "It went from spot to spot without reason"
> 
> ...


Yeah I have to say, to be a hardcore gimmick match they really tied it into the storytelling. The glass was a nice touch. And when Mox brought out the chain you could almost hear him saying, here ya go Omega, here’s your chain wrestling.


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Pablo Escobar said:


> My 2 cents...
> 
> Most the stuff in that match wasn't needed. Why put one of the greatest wrestlers in the world in a garbage match.


You completely missed the story. Mox baited Kenny into his realm (hardcore matches). Kenny took the bait and had a hardcore match with Janella to prove that he can hang with Moxley. Having a regular match would had been stupid. Do that when Kenny baits with the "that match didn't really count, how about a REAL match".


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

The build up to this match was excellent and the match lived up to it. Zero complaints. Just don't do it again for a few months at least.


----------



## 45banshee (Jan 7, 2019)

dele said:


> Suddenly I really want some Taco Bell....



With a side order of SHREDDED HUMMAANNSS!!! 


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lGn_VP3eJ4A


----------



## Rated-R-Peepz (Aug 4, 2010)

I really enjoyed the match. It was brutal, specifically by today's standards I guess, but not too brutal. 

And to the people that hated the match, I don't get it. A hardcore match is supposed to, you know, be hardcore.


----------



## Boldgerg (Apr 2, 2017)

Ah, people are still crying about a staged wrestling match where neither man was actually really hurt at all. Excellent.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

Rated-R-Peepz said:


> I really enjoyed the match. It was brutal, specifically by today's standards I guess, but not too brutal.
> 
> And to the people that hated the match, I don't get it. A hardcore match is supposed to, you know, be hardcore.


For most people now hardcore = kendo stick and chair…..


----------



## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

The Inbred Goatman said:


> I would like to see Omega and Moxley have a straight Wrestling match at some point, given that this one doesn't get counted for the record, I think we are due of that.


 the reception of the match among the fanbase is insanely positive! The wrestling observer is getting destroyed on social media for their critically and even got killed with their dislike ratio on their latest video where they shit on it.
This match is a turning point in both of their career and convince me that mox vs omega is their big money feud.
They shouldnt overdo it so for now they shouldnt fight


----------



## Le Duff Fluffer (May 12, 2014)

i enjoyed the match but I agree it was not as brutal as the build up was supposed to be


----------



## ripcitydisciple (Dec 18, 2014)

Their was an interesting theory a friend who has watched from the very beginning had as to the reason the match was so 'brutal' between Mox and Omega;

Moxley was upset at Khan for making his match with Kenny, Unsanctioned, thereby not counting in the win/loss record. He also felt he was being put in a box as a sideshow. Theory was, the reason why Moxley(and if want to include Omega too.) did everything he did was to make Khan think twice about booking an Unsanctioned match again, especially if Mox is involved. I thought this was a very plausible theory. 

I would not be surprised if the very beginning of Dynamite we see Moxley(and maybe Kenny also) being called to Khan's office where he say's they went too far and Moxley interrupts him and says he told him this would happen and he booked the match instead of what Moxley wanted in the first place: the match counting in the win/loss record. Moxley than demands another match with Kenny that counts this time from Tony, which Khan agrees too. 

*If Omega is there he would agree to the match(or demand one as well) and give his input too.*


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

The Wood said:


> This should tell you something. Meltzer and Alvarez have been extremely biased towards AEW and even they can’t get on board with this.
> 
> It is indicative of what AEW is. It was the main event of a PPV people paid $50 for.


Lol Meltzer gave Moxley/Janela and Omega/Janela Lights Out matches both 4.25 stars. In the PC world we live in he's gotta act concerned for safety of the wrestlers and say he didn't like it or it wasn't for him. Yet when the ratings come out for the match. Don't be surprised if it gets 4.25 to 4.50. 


Put this way there's a reason why wrestling media is saying it's not for them and affraid to approve of these matches. Yet majority of fans seem to love it. From reading wrestling media reaction on Twitter during the match. I'm like oh wow people aren't gonna like this match. Then I come on here and 99 percent of fans loved it and you see the fan comments responding to wrestling media and they all loved it too. 

It's sad that these guys need to act certain way about safety all the time and not approving of this stuff cuz if kids getting hurt etc. Especially when you got two professionals and veterans like Moxley/Omega who clearly didn't really hurt each other.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

ripcitydisciple said:


> Their was an interesting theory a friend who has watched from the very beginning had as to the reason the match was so 'brutal' between Mox and Omega;
> 
> Moxley was upset at Khan for making his match with Kenny, Unsanctioned, thereby not counting in the win/loss record. He also felt he was being put in a box as a sideshow. Theory was, the reason why Moxley(and if want to include Omega too.) did everything he did was to make Khan think twice about booking an Unsanctioned match again, especially if Mox is involved. I thought this was a very plausible theory.
> 
> ...



I don't think Khan gonna do voice office thing again. It sounded like one time thing at least for a while. Plus when are you gonna have the match? You don't wanna waste Omega/Moxley on tv and they don't have ppv for 3 months.


They are better off saving this as the only encounter from the two for a while. That way down the line say Moxley is world champion say at All Out next August and Omega is challenging for title. They can use these highlights to build up the match. With Omega saying Jon you won't have weapons to beat me with this time. You have to out wrestle me. Rematch in regular wrestling match needs to be saved for big main event on a big show. 


Since Moxley/Omega, Jericho/Moxley and Omega/Jericho are kind of the top Mania type matches for the company. If Cody keeps it up Moxley/Cody, Omega/Cody and another Jericho/Cody match might have that feel too.


----------



## ElectricAngel (May 31, 2019)

I was hoping to see Atsushi Onita electrify the barbed wire and add in some landmines outside the ring...


----------



## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I get the push back - how many times has AEW gone to this well in it's very short existence? Folks are worried they'll keep pushing the envelope further. Outrage causes the unprotected chair shot to be shitcanned even if it was gimmicked and botched. How much is enough with Tony Khan who has never taken a bump in his life? Sure you can say "Hey Mox and Omega want to do it"? But sometimes you have to protect wrestlers from themselves as they'll always want to one-up each other and then you have a young dumb Joey Janela being thrown off a roof for 25 people.
> 
> And this match is usually after a long blood feud, not the first singles encounter.
> 
> I watch this and remember the original debut angle for Dean Ambrose in WWE -


 the moment tony khan tries to restrict those guys too much is the moment they started creating backstage tension
And the argument that its reserved to long feud doesnt work because people fail to take the current storyline into question. Those two arent presented and arent Normal wrestlers. They are the two top guys and they are supposed to be psychopathic. Mox wanted this fight to bring out the psychopathic borderline insane guy who was on top in japan. And he did exactly that and if you read omega's twitter this is the beginning of a death ride for him.
Made perfect sense in term of story


----------



## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

imthegame19 said:


> Since Moxley/Omega, Jericho/Moxley and Omega/Jericho are kind of the top Mania type matches for the company. If Cody keeps it up Moxley/Cody, Omega/Cody and another Jericho/Cody match might have that feel too.


You are greatly overestimating the starpower of Cody and Omega. These two have lost a ton of viewers on TV every time they've been in segments/matches without Moxley or Jericho, and Cody just main evented the PPV that's likely to have the fewest buys of any AEW PPV so far. Those are matches that they will have to do because they don't have any true main eventers outside of Moxley and Jericho, but none of those matches will be big box office hits, with the exception of Moxley vs Jericho.

Moxley vs MJF will be by far the biggest feud they could do once they build MJF up. Nothing will come close.


----------



## ElectricAngel (May 31, 2019)

The Wood said:


> First of all, fuck your ableist language. That should be a ban right there.
> 
> Secondly, weapons like that being used in a wrestling match don't make sense. You will play apologist for anything Omega does. Chainsaw Charlie used to come out with a chainsaw -- it doesn't mean using one in a wrestling match is "reasonable." It doesn't mean that how they used them was reasonable, nor that the structure and flow of the match was reasonable. You are taking foreshadowing, which foreshadowed off-putting things and are using that to justify it from all angles. Nice try.
> 
> Thirdly, Alvarez has been on the dick of AEW since the start for that very reason. It's funny how when he criticizes it suddenly he's the devil.


HOLY FUCK THE ABSOLUTE STATE OF WRESTLINGFORUM IN 2019 LMAO "ableist"


----------



## King Kong Brody (Jan 21, 2018)

I've seen worse in little deathmatch orgs like CZW but I can't think of a match with a barbed wire net, broken glass, mouse traps and all that in a mainstream company. 

ECW (it's debateable if they were a mainstream company but whatever) had a really brutal barbed wire match between Terry Funk and Sabu where Sabu dives too hard at the non-gimmicked barbed wire and rips his arm open, and a "stairway to hell" match between Sandman and Sabu which had some brutal weapon use and Sandman bleeding massively, and Sabu taping a broken jaw shut, but that was the worst I can remember from them.

Anyone who wasn't happy with the brutality in this match should probably be put on some kind of watch list because they've got some kind of sick, sadistic problem. My issue with it was, just like the show, it just went on and on and on. I was like, Jesus Christ guys, do enough to make a good match and then do a finish, you don't need to do every hardcore spot that's ever been invented in one match. Check out Mick Foley vs Randy Orton from Backlash 04 as a great highly violent match, They did a lot, but kept the match moving and didn't have these long dead periods.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

AEWMoxley said:


> You are greatly overestimating the starpower of Cody and Omega. These two have lost a ton of viewers on TV every time they've been in segments/matches without Moxley or Jericho, and Cody just main evented the PPV that's likely to have the fewest buys of any AEW PPV so far. Those are matches that they will have to do because they don't have any true main eventers outside of Moxley and Jericho, but none of those matches will be big box office hits, with the exception of Moxley vs Jericho.
> 
> Moxley vs MJF will be by far the biggest feud they could do once they build MJF up. Nothing will come close.



That's just your opinion for AEW fans who are actually going to buy tickets to these shows and spend 50 dollars on ppvs. Those guys are big stars. It's going to take time for them to get over with casuals or WWE fans who aren't use to them.


----------



## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

V-Trigger said:


> Looks like someone forgot how grudge matches work. Last one that WWE had was HBK vs Jericho.


My problem with the match is that the buildup and grudge didn’t rise to the level to justify this kind of match.

This is what you want/expect for a blowoff of a long feud where each guy has real personal hatred for the other and wants to tear him apart.

Basically this started as ‘Mox wants to beat Omega to show he can beat the/a top guy’ in a regular match. And he got exactly what he wanted — they announced this match with no stipulation on Sept. 2 for this PPV in November.

So then he attacks Omega for no real reason and puts him through a glass table. And it escalates to weapons ... because. And Tony steps in and says ‘well if you guys want to bring out the weapons we’ll just make it unsanctioned’ and Mox decides he wants to go super-extreme — never mind that he had the exact thing he wanted before he decided to attack Omega on TV. All he had to do was wait.

And if wants to prove himself as the best wrestler and get a title shot, why isn’t he just coming out on TV every week and saying ‘Give me a match’ and building up his record?

To escalate to ‘unsanctioned deathmatch weapons safari’ blowoff, they needed to have real reasons to hate each other. We needed to see it play out like that. 

IMO, they failed to justify the match. Now it seems like anytime we get a ‘I want to show I’m better than you’ feud, they can just go straight to ‘kill each other.’


----------



## kchucky (Jan 30, 2017)

Next future match could be the last standing match will be very interesting but first blood is too easy for them


----------



## Sephiroth766 (Mar 25, 2015)

For some reason many fans especially journalists were appalled at the violence in this match. If they thought that was bad, imagine when the inevitable Moxely vs. Havoc hardcore match happens. Now that will be a spectacle to behold. That match will actually scare people.


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

imthegame19 said:


> Lol Meltzer gave Moxley/Janela and Omega/Janela Lights Out matches both 4.25 stars. In the PC world we live in he's gotta act concerned for safety of the wrestlers and say he didn't like it or it wasn't for him. Yet when the ratings come out for the match. Don't be surprised if it gets 4.25 to 4.50.
> 
> 
> Put this way there's a reason why wrestling media is saying it's not for them and affraid to approve of these matches. Yet majority of fans seem to love it. From reading wrestling media reaction on Twitter during the match. I'm like oh wow people aren't gonna like this match. Then I come on here and 99 percent of fans loved it and you see the fan comments responding to wrestling media and they all loved it too.
> ...


This match isn't getting 4 stars. Dave HATED it. He will give it 3* and he will get SHIT ON. It's gonna be hillarious.


----------



## Alexander_G (Mar 10, 2018)

I don't see any problem. The match more than done it's job telling the violent story it was supposed to do. 

However, I personally don't think Moxley should overdo it on stuff like this, despite that it's his fashion to do so, but that he should balance out the act with just straight forward wrestling in the near future.

My views with using weapons in any match is that the less they are used in a program, the more the impact. You want to be actually worried for a man's health once they come into play. If they are overused, you worry less, because then you begin to assume that a wrestler can take anything short of getting hit full-on by an 18-wheeler.


----------



## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

RBrooks said:


> The Inbred Goatman said:
> 
> 
> > I agree, and Omega should not be losing any matches for a long time, he needs to be running through guys now, let him run through guys like Shawn Spears, Kip Sabian, Darby Allin etc. etc. en route to ultimately getting a title shot sometime in 2020, more promos from Omega must happen now too.
> ...


 bad side? One of the reason why he got over was his promo work dude.
He needs promo time every wrestler needs to talk, that's how you get over. Also some of his promo on Moxley were absolute fire...


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Saintpat said:


> My problem with the match is that the buildup and grudge didn’t rise to the level to justify this kind of match.
> 
> This is what you want/expect for a blowoff of a long feud where each guy has real personal hatred for the other and wants to tear him apart.
> 
> ...



Did you forget Omega trashing Moxley for missing the match at All Out? He had plenty of reason to attack Omega when he returned and put him threw a table. That promo Omega cut on Moxley after the match got cancelled was some of the best part of the feud. 


That said I agree that usually unsaction match would be rubber match of heated feud. But there's enough there for them to sell it just fine. When you consider their feud has been going on since May. So in a way it was a blow off to long feud. They just didn't do another match first.



Plus the purpose of the match was to keep Moxley/Omega apart after this match. Because if AEW wouldn't allow this match to be sanction then they won't let them wrestle for a while in a regular match and they aren't gonna do another unsancation match anytime soon. So it keeps him and Omega apart for a while. 


Plus we got storyline now with Moxley upset the win doesn't count. When he should be up for title shot being undefeated at 3+0-1 in singles Omega, Pac, Janela and Spears. But most likely he's not going to get next opportunity and raise hell about it. Since he's only 1+0+1 because the company keeps booking him in unsancation matches that he didn't ask to be in.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

V-Trigger said:


> This match isn't getting 4 stars. Dave HATED it. He will give it 3* and he will get SHIT ON. It's gonna be hillarious.


I dunno he said he hated Foley/Taker in hell in the cell too but gave it 4.5 because it was big moment in wrestling. I think it's all BS talk to please PC audience. Anyone who in media at all these days in sports. Always pushes athlete safety and health to appeal to PC fans. 



If Meltzer said it was great match and he loved stuff like that. Then he would worry about backlash from people saying it's going to lead to kids doing that stuff in their backyards etc. The fact he said Moxley/Janela wasn't for him and then gave it 4.25. Well I have feeling he will give it a good rating. Especially after he sees how fans loving it.


----------



## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

imthegame19 said:


> AEWMoxley said:
> 
> 
> > You are greatly overestimating the starpower of Cody and Omega. These two have lost a ton of viewers on TV every time they've been in segments/matches without Moxley or Jericho, and Cody just main evented the PPV that's likely to have the fewest buys of any AEW PPV so far. Those are matches that they will have to do because they don't have any true main eventers outside of Moxley and Jericho, but none of those matches will be big box office hits, with the exception of Moxley vs Jericho.
> ...


 dont even waste your time and respond to this guy. There is being a fan and there is being an idiotic dick rider.
Of course mox and Jericho will be the one to get the ratings up since you know in all the roster....they are the only legit tv star. Everything that this company has done before mox came in it was with the elite, they were the one to sellout Chicago in 30 minutes, they were the one to sellout the Roh Madison square garden show back when omega was IWGP champion, they are stars. They simply arent rv star and throwing omega ( someone the mainstream casual) audience wasnt introduced to in random matches wasnt gonna make him a star.

There is a lot of potential in the roster and all those guys are going to get build up. So yes this guy you replied to is kind of an idiot.


----------



## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

imthegame19 said:


> That's just your opinion for AEW fans who are actually going to buy tickets to these shows and spend 50 dollars on ppvs. Those guys are big stars. It's going to take time for them to get over with casuals or WWE fans who aren't use to them.


So they are "big stars" to a very small group of people. Cool. I'm sure those matches will feel big to their very small fanbases, but they won't generate very big numbers.

The feud that this company has to be built upon for the next 2-3 years is Moxley vs MJF. These guys will have to carry the company on their back. That's the money feud.


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

It was a violent match, but not beyond the scope of what would be considered too dangerous for the workers and certainly not as squeamish as other bloodbaths I've seen in my day. 

I could sit here and rattle off a ton of matches that were way more violent and I'd probably hit 20 before hitting ECW, CZW, or Japanese death matches easily. 

- Taker Vs. Mankind HIAC
- Mankind Vs. Rock I Quit
- Angle Vs. Shane from KOTR
- Eddie Vs. JBL from JDay04
- Edge Vs. Foley from WM22
- Foley Vs. Orton from BL04
- Abyss Vs. Sabu in their Barbwire Match
- Austin Vs. Bret from WM13
- Edge/Foley/Lita Vs. Dreamer/Funk/Beaulah from ONS06
- Fox Vs. Killshot Hell of War from Ultima Lucha Tres
- Cactus Vs. HHH from RR00
- Cena Vs. JBL I Quit from JDay05
- Vampiro Vs. Pentagon Cero Miedo from UL1
- Pentagon Vs. Callihan Mask Vs. Hair from Slammy18
- Maganum Vs. Tully from Starrcade 85
- Some of the old War Games matches (87 and 92 come to mind)
- Hell, I'd even go as far to say that Cody Vs. Dustin from AEW earlier this year was more violent and tougher to watch given the amount of juice Dustin got. 
- And by their very nature, I'd call any Inferno match or Scaffold match as being too dangerous or hard to watch, more so than this match. 

There, that's an abundance of matches that I felt were more violent or tougher to watch than Moxley/Omega, and I didn't even have to go into ECW, CZW, or Japanese Deathmatches. 

The complaint I'm hearing that this match is "too violent" is asinine, especially after the shit I've seen over the years. Omega and Moxley had no light tubes, no thumbtacks, no fire, not an overabundance of blood, and what was obviously sugar glass. I was an entertained by it and it never ventured into territory where I felt the boys were in any more danger than they would be under normal circumstances.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

AEWMoxley said:


> So they are "big stars" to a very small group of people. Cool. I'm sure those matches will feel big to their very small fanbases, but they won't generate very big numbers.
> 
> The feud that this company has to be built upon for the next 2-3 years is Moxley vs MJF. These guys will have to carry the company on their back. That's the money feud.


If Cody Rhodes or Omega aren't stars then either are Seth Rollins or AJ Styles. Please tell me who you think outside of AEW is a star? MJF has a LONG way to go before he looks like a threat to Moxley. 


Until then AEW will just have to get by selling more tickets and getting better buyrates then WCW did the final year they were in business. It's not like WWE is selling a ton more tickets for most if their shows then AEW. Not bad for small fanbase with 2 or 3 stars lol.


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

King Kong Brody said:


> My issue with it was, just like the show, it just went on and on and on. I was like, Jesus Christ guys, do enough to make a good match and then do a finish, you don't need to do every hardcore spot that's ever been invented in one match. Check out Mick Foley vs Randy Orton from Backlash 04 as a great highly violent match, They did a lot, but kept the match moving and didn't have these long dead periods.


But that was legitimately part of the story. Kenny and Mox both had a point to prove, and they're both maniacs in their own way.

It only made sense that they'd go overboard. If they didn't, it wouldn't match the build.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

imthegame19 said:


> If Cody Rhodes or Omega aren't stars then either are Seth Rollins or AJ Styles. Please tell me who you think outside of AEW is a star? MJF has a LONG way to go before he looks like a threat to Moxley.
> 
> 
> Until then AEW will just have to get by selling more tickets and getting better buyrates then WCW did the final year they were in business. It's not like WWE is selling a ton more tickets for most if their shows then AEW. Not bad for small fanbase with 2 or 3 stars lol.


I'm on your side but this isn't exactly true. Google Trends on the four names shows Omega and Cody are on par with AJ since the company has been running but Seth is way above all three.


----------



## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

imthegame19 said:


> Did you forget Omega trashing Moxley for missing the match at All Out? He had plenty of reason to attack Omega when he returned and put him threw a table. That promo Omega cut on Moxley after the match got cancelled was some of the best part of the feud.
> 
> 
> That said I agree that usually unsaction match would be rubber match of heated feud. But there's enough there for them to sell it just fine. When you consider their feud has been going on since May. So in a way it was a blow off to long feud. They just didn't do another match first.
> ...


Maybe for the YouTube crowd it made sense but of course for those of us who watch the TV show and not their videos (which is the vast majority of their audience by the numbers), that never happened because they never brought it to TV.

And I still don’t think one video/promo segment by Omega saying what he said (I’ve seen it since) rises to the level of ‘forget that I just wanted a match to prove I’m better, this is now war and it’s a blood feud’ — if so, that’s all Mox is ever going to have because, you know, his opponent is always going to say something.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Undertaker23RKO said:


> I'm on your side but this isn't exactly true. Google Trends on the four names shows Omega and Cody are on par with AJ since the company has been running but Seth is way above all three.


Seth being in those trends above those guys hasn't been positive thing tho. It's mostly been because of stupid comments he made on Twitter or in interviews. Or being apart of Hell in the Cell disaster finish. So if majority of the internet is trashing you and your suppose to be a top face. Well I don't consider that being over lol.



Saintpat said:


> Maybe for the YouTube crowd it made sense but of course for those of us who watch the TV show and not their videos (which is the vast majority of their audience by the numbers), that never happened because they never brought it to TV.
> 
> And I still don’t think one video/promo segment by Omega saying what he said (I’ve seen it since) rises to the level of ‘forget that I just wanted a match to prove I’m better, this is now war and it’s a blood feud’ — if so, that’s all Mox is ever going to have because, you know, his opponent is always going to say something.





Nah there was plenty there for this type of match. Now that I'm thinking about it. I shouldn't been surprised they went in this direction after all they did at Double Or Nothing brawl, Fyter Fest Omega attack on Moxley with weapons, All Out Omega personal promo attack on Moxley and Moxley return attack putting him through glass table for vengeance. That is all stuff that leads to no dq matches. If the match happened at All Out. Then wouldn't have been heated enough. But after stuff the did to build to All Out and what happen since it was the direction to go in.


When you have 5 or 6 month build up to one match doing the things they did it makes perfect sense. Not every grudge match has to happen after they already wrestle two or three matches. Perfect example of that is Foley/Orton match in 2004. They faced each other one on one they had epic no dq match which very much like this match.


Plus it tells great story for Moxley being kept out of title picture for the time being because he keeps being forced into matches that don't count for his record. It also doesn't really make Omega look too weak because type of match he lost. It also leaves plenty of interest and excitement for future traditional one on one matches between the two come 2020.


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## Stylebender (Oct 12, 2019)

I think it was pretty brutal for a mainstream wrestling match. Nothing like the worst of the hardcore in japan,czw or ecw though. The spot with the suplex into the barbed wires had to hurt tho. You could see moxleys back completly ripped up. Very easy for the wires to hit a nerve or an artirery so I hope no damage was done. An mma match or boxing match isnt neccesarily more brutal than a wrestling match. Depends on the damage. I compete in amateur mma and I think wrestlers are more beat up on a yearly basis due to the volume of matches,travel,lack of sleep etc. I have several months to recover between fights and dont have to travel.


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## CRCC (Sep 25, 2017)

I endured Baron Corbin fans.

I found it odd to find Jinder Mahal fans.

But saying a wrestling match wasn't brutal because fighting sports are way more brutal is one of the most nonsensical things I have read on this forum.


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## DJ Punk (Sep 1, 2016)

CRCC said:


> I endured Baron Corbin fans.
> 
> I found it odd to find Jinder Mahal fans.
> 
> But saying a wrestling match wasn't brutal because fighting sports are way more brutal is one of the most nonsensical things I have read on this forum.


You're missing the point of the thread. It was a brutal hardcore match, sure. But it wasn't as dangerous to their health and well being as many are claiming it to have been.


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

DJ Punk said:


> You're missing the point of the thread. It was a brutal hardcore match, sure. But it wasn't as dangerous to their health and well being as many are claiming it to have been.


Honestly, where are these people who are supposedly claiming it was some kind of near-death experience where the participants barely escaped with their lives?

I’ve seen criticism of the match on many levels (and plenty who liked it), but not that.


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## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

Way too over analyzed. Holy crap, y'all. I know for sure that I wouldn't want to be thrown in to barbed wire, shattered glass, tables, hard wood that is from the base of the ring, etc. It was brutal.

For real though, who was claiming that it was some near-death experience or was that just a conclusion someone came up in their own head from reading others opinion..?


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## 45banshee (Jan 7, 2019)

You could compared this match as the equivalent to The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

TCM was shocking,brutal, some say went to far, got an X rating and was even banned I believe in some places.

But guess what...there was hardly any blood shown. For a movie so violent so shocking there was barley a pint of blood spilled in the movie.

Same here in this match. Many things looked dangerous but Mox and Kenny hardly bleed.

Hell when Mox grinded that barded wire baseball into Kennys bicep you would expect a gash and a thick roll of blood down his arm. There wasnt even a scratch on him


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## Darkest Lariat (Jun 12, 2013)




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## kingnoth1n (Nov 21, 2016)

New Jack was more brutal than most of the things OP mentioned.


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## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

I mean I felt like it was crazy and brutal. Were you expecting ECW and/or CZW?

EDIT: Oh wait. You meant something else. You needed to communicate that better OP.


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

kingnoth1n said:


> New Jack was more brutal than most of the things OP mentioned.


I was at an indie show once and at the end they announced New Jack was set up at a table on the other side of the ring for autographs and pictures.

I turned quickly and walked at a brisk pace, we got in the car and drove out as fast as was safely possible.

I still get shivers from being in the same building as him. I feel luck to have escaped with my life.


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## rkolegend123 (Jan 30, 2017)

IronMan8 said:


> Back then, you could ignore it and nobody would notice.
> 
> Now, snowflakes have the power to judge you on social media, implying they’re better a person than you, because they are such thoughtful human beings.
> 
> ...


Your a smart guy


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## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

rkolegend123 said:


> Your a smart guy


I’m used to being labelled a braindead moron, so this is a change.

And I’m a Vince Russo guy, how smart could I be? ?


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## Donnie (Apr 8, 2014)

:banderas


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## dele (Feb 21, 2005)

V-Trigger said:


> This match isn't getting 4 stars. Dave HATED it. He will give it 3* and he will get SHIT ON. It's gonna be hillarious.


It's a good thing I value Dave's opinion so much :eyeroll



Donnie said:


> :banderas


FUCK YEAH JUN KASAI


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## TAC41 (Jun 8, 2016)

People thought the match was brutal? It was like 20 minutes of gimmicked barbwire made out of plastic and “glass” that looked like someone poured flour in the ring. 

It was about the same level of brutal as any run of the mill singles match. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dan the marino (Oct 22, 2006)

Boldgerg said:


> How are people getting this so wrong? I'm honestly baffled.
> 
> What does this have to do with people who enjoyed the match? I'm calling out the snowflakes who legitimately thought it was too genuinely barbaric and the sort of match shouldn't be allowed to take place.


I would agree with you but is there actually anyone who said that?


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## Boldgerg (Apr 2, 2017)

dan the marino said:


> I would agree with you but is there actually anyone who said that?


Yes, repeatedly, all over social media. On here, no, not so much, but I already pointed both of those things out in my original post.


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## Stadhart02 (Aug 31, 2016)

I only got round to watching the ppv today and the start of Dynamite - that match was brutal. Yeah maybe not some Japanese deathmatch stuff but still brilliant

And I had no interest in Dean Ambrose but John Moxley is a bonafide star - brilliant start to Dynamite and I absolutely love the guy now

For anyone moaning - just enjoy what you are being given because if AEW wasn't around you could be enjoying cuck porn on Raw and Becky "the man" ratings killer. Aew is on fire at the mo so make the most of it


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## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

IronMan8 said:


> rkolegend123 said:
> 
> 
> > Your a smart guy
> ...


 Russo whether people like it or not has one of the best wrestling mind because he understands the cardinal concept in pro wrestling, outside inspirations.
To feel bigger than life to feel bigger than wrestling you need to take inspiration outside of wrestling itself. Rock stone cold Bret hart even early cena they all took inspirations in outside wrestling.
Right now one of my favs omega even goes on record saying he isnt even a wrestling fan anymore. If you want to be bigger than life you need to go past wrestling itself you need to stop being a fan and bypass it. This is one of Vince russo's major points and this is the mindset that has created some of the greatest.

Notice how fans shit on him but guys like Steve Austin the rock always praise him? 
Go figure.


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## Necrolust (Mar 4, 2015)

I don’t think we will see extremely brutal stuff like ECW and ROH stuff, since it’s on national tv and times have, if we like or not, have changed.

The match was really good, imo, it seemed brutal and it may have shocked some people, but it was nothing that AEW cannot defend to TNT executives. They were smart about it. Had enough shock value for the people not so used to watching hardcore stuff, both wrestling fans in general but also any potential newcomers.


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

most of the stuff used in the match weren't even real.

I'm not a huge deathmatch guy but if you're going to use glass, use the real shit. Same goes with the barbed wire.


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