# Why doesn’t nobody big want to come to AEW?



## Whysoserious? (Oct 24, 2019)

We heard how the dirt sheets reported how there would be a mass exodus from WWE. We thought Orton was one name heading to AEW, nope. We thought Punk would go to AEW, nope. It’s weird how no big names outside of Jericho and Mox want to jump ship.


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## Dibil13 (Apr 29, 2016)

WWE has the most money.


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## Whysoserious? (Oct 24, 2019)

Dibil13 said:


> WWE has the most money.


Yeah but Khan is richer than McMahon. It’s a weird situation...has you kinda worried about the future of the company


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## li/<o (Jan 18, 2009)

Probably fear that the company wont make it and can fail. Now adays people want a financial pay check assured. Orton probably wasnt interesting in AEW (maybe he was who knows), but he used AEW as leverage to get a sweet contract to stay with the company. Orton is pretty much done he probably will go 5 years before he calls it quits. As for Punk I don't know I feel that he wants the Lesnar treatment which he probably will get it. For Vince to keep Punk off AEW he will be more than happy to pay him that amount or close to it. I feel AEW didn't approach him properly so their wasnt much communication. 

It just comes down to financial stability. No matter what as of now WWE is the big giant with tons of cash and potential compared to the little companies.

Also to note Khan he apparently is a billionaire as maybe more money than Vince, but you have to remember the guy can pull out anytime. If he sees AEW isnt generating him profit he might just sell the company or run out. WWE still has tons of cash flow upfloat.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Most would have been considering it until they realised it is a 50/50 compound where top talent has to coexist with geeks off the street. Stars know how to protect their aura. When people have seen what AEW is batting with, they’ve realized that they aren’t going to be dethroning WWE anytime soon.


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## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Whysoserious? said:


> Dibil13 said:
> 
> 
> > WWE has the most money.
> ...


Not really. Rather they didn't waste money on signing a bunch big names and instead build their own talent up


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

Because nobody wants to jump to a new promotion, it fail, and then go crawling back to Vince with their tail between their legs, once the company has been around a few years you might see bigger names jumping, think of Kurt Angle jumping to TNA for example.


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## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

Because WWE has the money to turn talents' eyes into dollar signs. 


Do you honestly think all else equal, a person would work for WWE over a company that allows greater creative freedom?


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## KennyOmegaa (Sep 25, 2019)

Whysoserious? said:


> Yeah but Khan is richer than McMahon. It’s a weird situation...has you kinda worried about the future of the company



Yeah, but WWE income is basically unlimited because of their tv deals, etc. No smart businessman uses his own money to over-spend on the product. Tony is spending good money, but being wise about it. Don't want a TNA situation where they signed every ex-wwe has-been in existence, just because. 

If the company is gonna be successful longterm, they have to build their own stars. 

AEW is doing well, they don't have to do the same thing WWE does and just sign talent for the sake of keeping them from other organizations


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Whysoserious? said:


> Dibil13 said:
> 
> 
> > WWE has the most money.
> ...


Well to be fair, Tony Khan's father is richer than Vince. Same goes for Dixie Carter's father. Not everyone is going to be willing to lose millions a year like Ted Turner was. I like CM Punk, but he would not be a true game changer like Hogan was for WCW. I have no doubt AEW would have loved to get Punk or Orton, but there is only so much money they are going to throw at someone, especially this early on.


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## Upstart474 (May 13, 2018)

AEW is a new promotion who has not proven sustainability and the owner is not throwing money like WCW. Wrestlers have to do what best for them and their families.


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## Darkest Lariat (Jun 12, 2013)

It's funny how almost everyone in this thread is a WWE apologist from the WWE section growing a pube and thinking they got something on AEW.

Punk took it deep and turned around and said more please. If I learned a thing about him over the past five years of him bitching it's that he's a pretty toxic guy. 

Randy was never leaving HHH. Randy doesn't give a shit about anything besides making money. When has he ever given anyone the impression that he's interested in changing the status quo? He made the status quo.

You're all buying into your own bullshit like it mattered.


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## looper007 (Dec 20, 2014)

Cause AEW is new, maybe in 5 to 10 years time you might see it happening more regularly but right now it's a massive risk for any top unhappy WWE talent wanting to jump ship. Until AEW finds a spot in the Wrestling world and is doing great shows, doing good business at shows and still offers creative decisions to talent and pulls in good ratings in this wrestling climate, then you might see a big name who's unhappy jump ship.

Moxley was going to do it no matter if AEW wasn't around as he clearly had enough. Jericho would have been happy enough doing the odd booking with NJPW and working with his band. 

I don't see WWE big names been really unhappy, they get paid a ton of money, are on TV a lot and headline the big shows and stuff. You might get a Mox or Jericho who might leave, but that's a rare case. The talent I would expect to leave would be upper mid card talent or talent who are great but are misused in WWE. I don't expect main eventers to leave WWE.


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## looper007 (Dec 20, 2014)

Darkest Lariat said:


> It's funny how almost everyone in this thread is a WWE apologist from the WWE section growing a pube and thinking they got something on AEW.
> 
> Punk took it deep and turned around and said more please. If I learned a thing about him over the past five years of him bitching it's that he's a pretty toxic guy.
> 
> ...


Punk was going with whoever was going to pay him more, simple as. Plus he's probably only doing the Backstage thing with WWE, as he's dealing with Fox not WWE, is getting paid the same amount to do a part time job with Fox then take any crazy bumps. I still stand by he won't wrestle.

Orton is in his not arsed period of his career, he knew WWE was going to give him crazy money to stay. all these hints of AEW, was just him scaring WWE into offering him more money. He doesn't seem the type that would want to work too hard, and for AEW he would need to have his working boots on. And I doubt he would be up for that. He's happy doing whatever in WWE.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

It's risk vs reward. You'll probably see bigger names in a few years


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## Ace Dalton (Nov 5, 2019)

Surprised noone has mentioned that these guys have contracts, and WWE have been incredibly strict on not letting guys out of their contracts recently - in no small part due to the AEW threat. See Sin Cara, Harper, The Revival.

If AEW continues to run like it is at the moment for a few years, we may find more WWE guys not re-signing and instead waiting out their contract before jumping ship.

That said, the other points are valid too. Generally, the big-name guys have all the security they want at WWE, and they're getting TV time, so many may see little reason for risk.

I'd bet a fair few big names are heavily tempted by the freedom at AEW, though.


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## Ray McCarthy (Jun 9, 2018)

Darkest Lariat said:


> Punk took it deep and turned around and said more please. If I learned a thing about him over the past five years of him bitching it's that he's a pretty toxic guy.
> 
> Randy was never leaving HHH. Randy doesn't give a shit about anything besides making money. When has he ever given anyone the impression that he's interested in changing the status quo? He made the status quo.
> 
> You're all buying into your own bullshit like it mattered.


100% agree about Punk. AEW is better off without him. He seems like a total cunt - massively inflated sense of his own worth, massively overrates himself as a performer, rants against WWE for years but when the money dries up he drops to his knees and spreads his cheeks. Sell out.


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## Darkest Lariat (Jun 12, 2013)

Ray McCarthy said:


> 100% agree about Punk. AEW is better off without him. He seems like a total cunt - massively inflated sense of his own worth, massively overrates himself as a performer, rants against WWE for years but when the money dries up he drops to his knees and spreads his cheeks. Sell out.


I honestly didn't give a shit if he ever came back. It's not even about him in AEW.

If anything I wanted him to go to New Japan and test himself. I wanted him to wrestle guys like Okada, Tanahashi, Naito, Ibushi and put his money where his mouth is. The only guy he ever wrestled worth a damn in WWE was Bryan as far as real wrestlers go. But I guess he got enough of being exposed in the UFC. It's easy to call yourself the best in the world in a talent vacuum like WWE.

Bottom line is WWE knew if he went anywhere else it would've been a huge blow to them so Stamford sent a Brinks truck to Chicago to keep that from happening.


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

First of all, Moxley Pac and Jericho ARE big names, as is Omega and the Bucks. 

Second of all, the other "big guys" you are thinking of are not driven motivated HUNGRY people who want wrestling freedom more than anything else. Orton is a lazy dick. I was HOPING Punk would be the type of guy who cared about wrestling outside of the WWE system, but no. He'd rather go work in a FOX show that talks about modern WWE, which outside of NXT is GARBAGE and not worth a fucking talk show about. 

Who else is considered a "big name" in wrestling in 2019 who's not there? Rollins? Roman? Cena? I wouldn't count out Bryan quite yet, but he does have a family to provide for, so security is probably appealing to him.


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## Adam Cool (Oct 1, 2012)

Are you guys really that butthurt that a 40 years old with a Broken Body isn't gonna take timeslot from younger guys?


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## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

TommyWCECM said:


> It's risk vs reward. You'll probably see bigger names in a few years


 in "few" years if aew keep being this successful, they will have built their own stars and wont need anyone from the outside tho lol.


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## James Hurley (Oct 28, 2019)

Maybe AEW doesn't want them.

They have all the ingredients to build their own stars.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

patpat said:


> in "few" years if aew keep being this successful, they will have built their own stars and wont need anyone from the outside tho lol.


That too


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## kingfrass44 (Sep 19, 2019)

MontyCora said:


> First of all, Moxley Pac and Jericho ARE big names, as is Omega and the Bucks.
> 
> Second of all, the other "big guys" you are thinking of are not driven motivated HUNGRY people who want wrestling freedom more than anything else. Orton is a lazy dick. I was HOPING Punk would be the type of guy who cared about wrestling outside of the WWE system, but no. He'd rather go work in a FOX show that talks about modern WWE, which outside of NXT is GARBAGE and not worth a fucking talk show about.
> 
> Who else is considered a "big name" in wrestling in 2019 who's not there? Rollins? Roman? Cena? I wouldn't count out Bryan quite yet, but he does have a family to provide for, so security is probably appealing to him.


Moxley and Jericho only big names

Pac midcard and not big name
Omega and the Bucks Unknown outside Hardcore (NJPW Followers) And Omega lost his luster After loss
The same thing for Cody


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## lagofala (Jun 22, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> Well to be fair, Tony Khan's father is richer than Vince. Same goes for Dixie Carter's father. Not everyone is going to be willing to lose millions a year like Ted Turner was. I like CM Punk, but he would not be a true game changer like Hogan was for WCW. I have no doubt AEW would have loved to get Punk or Orton, but there is only so much money they are going to throw at someone, especially this early on.


Yup.
Doesn't mean that a billionaire is going to throw all his money on AEW.

It all looks like a billionaire give some pocket change to his son to fund his pet project.

To Vince however, WWE is a family business spanning years before him. He was willing to mortgage his house to keep WWE up. 

Do you see Khan being willing to do that?


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## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

kingfrass44 said:


> MontyCora said:
> 
> 
> > First of all, Moxley Pac and Jericho ARE big names, as is Omega and the Bucks.
> ...


 omega and the bucks received respectively 1 million for nick jackson one million for matt 
4 million for kenny. Being the elite being aired on the wwe network, going directly to the main roster. They arent tv stars yet, yes but they are big name. That's why their brand ( the elite) was strong enough to carry a core fanbase that was the basis of their current company. ?


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

DOTL said:


> Because WWE has the money to turn talents' eyes into dollar signs.
> 
> 
> Do you honestly think all else equal, a person would work for WWE over a company that allows greater creative freedom?


There’s too much creative freedom though. There’s no discipline or psychology enforced. On the same show as an awesome Jericho segment you are going to get Joey Janela using a finisher before the finish and stop selling to yell at clouds before he starts selling again. No one really takes that seriously. 

Yeah, it would be nice to cut your own promos. But you want to be part of a team you can trust too. Even publicly there are way too many cooks and things are inevitably going to blow up at some point. 



Darkest Lariat said:


> It's funny how almost everyone in this thread is a WWE apologist from the WWE section growing a pube and thinking they got something on AEW.
> 
> Punk took it deep and turned around and said more please. If I learned a thing about him over the past five years of him bitching it's that he's a pretty toxic guy.
> 
> ...


Who is apologizing for WWE? I haven’t seen one single person. It’s a fact that talent are choosing one over the other. 

And is WWE for old people or young people? The AEW trolls can’t seem to make up their mind on that one. 

Punk has got lots of things in the fire at the moment. The guy can buy houses for his friends. Does he love money? Sure. But you’re naive if you think that AEW wouldn’t break bank to get him. He doesn’t want to go there. 

Orton was not a sure thing to stay. It is out there that he sent feelers out. If the deal was good, and it surely would, he was thinking about it. Yes, WWE would have backed up a truck, but AEW would have too. 

I have no clue what your last statement is even about. 



looper007 said:


> Darkest Lariat said:
> 
> 
> > It's funny how almost everyone in this thread is a WWE apologist from the WWE section growing a pube and thinking they got something on AEW.
> ...


AEW would have offered Punk insane money. If he believed in what they were doing, he would have gone. Much easier to paint a guy that has left on principle and bought people’s houses for them as a capitalist pig than deal with the truer implications. 

It’s partially true that Orton would have bartered, but likewise, if this thing were hot, they could have enticed him. 



Ace Dalton said:


> Surprised noone has mentioned that these guys have contracts, and WWE have been incredibly strict on not letting guys out of their contracts recently - in no small part due to the AEW threat. See Sin Cara, Harper, The Revival.
> 
> If AEW continues to run like it is at the moment for a few years, we may find more WWE guys not re-signing and instead waiting out their contract before jumping ship.
> 
> ...


A lot of contracts have come up since this was in the works though. Bryan, Styles, Nakamura, Gallows, Anderson, Usos and Orton. Who has jumped? 



MontyCora said:


> First of all, Moxley Pac and Jericho ARE big names, as is Omega and the Bucks.
> 
> Second of all, the other "big guys" you are thinking of are not driven motivated HUNGRY people who want wrestling freedom more than anything else. Orton is a lazy dick. I was HOPING Punk would be the type of guy who cared about wrestling outside of the WWE system, but no. He'd rather go work in a FOX show that talks about modern WWE, which outside of NXT is GARBAGE and not worth a fucking talk show about.
> 
> Who else is considered a "big name" in wrestling in 2019 who's not there? Rollins? Roman? Cena? I wouldn't count out Bryan quite yet, but he does have a family to provide for, so security is probably appealing to him.


The Bucks and Omega are not huge names.



James Hurley said:


> Maybe AEW doesn't want them.
> 
> They have all the ingredients to build their own stars.


AEW wants them. 

Also, all these people saying Orton is lazy: watch him work more dates than a lot of AEW guys. As if he wouldn’t be their top star automatically if he jumped. People are delusional.


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

The Bucks and Omega are as much a part of selling tickets and filling up arenas as anything. You don't get to pretend they're not big names because they didn't slum it in Vince's company for an arbitrary amount of time to get their "big name" card.



The Wood said:


> Also, all these people saying Orton is lazy: watch him work more dates than a lot of AEW guys. As if he wouldn’t be their top star automatically if he jumped. People are delusional.


You don't understand why people are saying Orton is lazy, or you're being willfully ignorant.


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## kingfrass44 (Sep 19, 2019)

patpat said:


> omega and the bucks received respectively 1 million for nick jackson one million for matt
> 4 million for kenny. Being the elite being aired on the wwe network, going directly to the main roster. They arent tv stars yet, yes but they are big name. That's why their brand ( the elite) was strong enough to carry a core fanbase that was the basis of their current company. ?


Also And you can't make stars if he doesn't have star potential. 
Outside mjf No one have star potential


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

"Dirt sheets reported" :Trump

Well there's your first problem right there :cudi

Signing a bunch of 'WWF' guys helped WCW when those guys were involved in well written and executed stories like they had been in WWF and their earlier careers as well

Not so much when the good stories weren't good anymore

Signing a bunch of 'WWE' guys sure helped TNA in the long run too :jericho2

AEW should be building the guys it has now instead of chasing market share that would allegedly come from hiring big guys from WWE

That looks like what AEW is doing. Jericho, Cody, Mox, do they really need more big names from WWE? 

You gotta spend money to make money but spending money on 'WWE' guys and spending money are not synonyms

Spend money to get Omega, Pentagon, MJF etc. along with Cody, Jericho, Mox over


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## FrankAndersson (May 26, 2019)

I love how the defenders of AEW says it's wise not spending a bunch of money on these big stars when AEW is overspending loads of money on minor talent just because they happen to be friends with the guys running the show. :lol

The simple reasons to why there is hesitation are:
1. WWE (the company) offers proven financial stability and a long track record of existing. It's not losing money it's making a profit. Because of this, it doesn't depend on having a rich owner. Having a rich owner will help, but it won't guarantee stability if the company itself isn't profitable.

2. Taking the first point into account, it might not be wise signing up with the competition if it fails. In that scenario, the talent would once again only have one major option to earn big money and there might not be open slots for those who have chosen AEW.

3. If I was a serious wrestler I would not want to associate with the likes of Dark Order, Orange Cassidy and Marko Stunt to name a few.


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## shadows123 (Jan 30, 2017)

I am not sure why people want everyone in wwe to come immediately..isnt that the exact reason why WCW failed in the first place? Paying talent insane money and creative control to jump ship.. ... Even though AEW has got people like Cody, Kenny and Young bucks running the show, they havent exactly been putting themselves over like say Triple H did or Jeff Jarrett did.. I think AEW is playing it just fine.. 

Plus they got Jericho, the guy who has a pretty good first hand account of why WCW failed in the first place. So i am sure having him around helps too..


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

shadows123 said:


> I am not sure why people want everyone in wwe to come immediately..isnt that the exact reason why WCW failed in the first place? Paying talent insane money and creative control to jump ship.. ... Even though AEW has got people like Cody, Kenny and Young bucks running the show, they havent exactly been putting themselves over like say Triple H did or Jeff Jarrett did.. I think AEW is playing it just fine..
> 
> *Plus they got Jericho, the guy who has a pretty good first hand account of why WCW failed in the first place. So i am sure having him around helps too..*


To be fair Jericho left WCW in 1999 when it was still hot, but he does have alot of years in the business and brings alot of experience with him so he is valuable.


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## kingfrass44 (Sep 19, 2019)

shadows123 said:


> I am not sure why people want everyone in wwe to come immediately..isnt that the exact reason why WCW failed in the first place? Paying talent insane money and creative control to jump ship.. ... Even though AEW has got people like Cody, Kenny and Young bucks running the show, they havent exactly been putting themselves over like say Triple H did or Jeff Jarrett did.. I think AEW is playing it just fine..
> 
> Plus they got Jericho, the guy who has a pretty good first hand account of why WCW failed in the first place. So i am sure having him around helps too..


Jericho He has no authority. What he's saying isn't the truth
Jericho wants to retire in wwe and doesn't want problems with wwe
And he doesn't want to lose relationships with wwe If the company failed it


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Because they're.... Under contract?


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

MontyCora said:


> The Bucks and Omega are as much a part of selling tickets and filling up arenas as anything. You don't get to pretend they're not big names because they didn't slum it in Vince's company for an arbitrary amount of time to get their "big name" card.


Lol, it’s running opposition to Vince that is selling out those arenas, which is a hot streak that is now dwindling down. Do not pretend these guys are giant stars everywhere they go. It would be rare they are recognized in a supermarket. This is their biggest exposure ever. 



MontyCora said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> > Also, all these people saying Orton is lazy: watch him work more dates than a lot of AEW guys. As if he wouldn’t be their top star automatically if he jumped. People are delusional.
> ...


The dude presents himself as detached, but the dude doesn’t need to do this anymore. I’m sure he’s well-off and could try and be a sardonic good-looking asshole dad in films if he wanted to. The “lazy” thing is just an internet fan myth. It’s not an inherent quality the guy has. Just like Brock isn’t “lazy.” When they need to, they can turn it the fuck on and are definitely top guys. 



deepelemblues said:


> "Dirt sheets reported" <img src="http://i.imgur.com/jAvpr6W.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Trump" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> Well there's your first problem right there <img src="http://i.imgur.com/Kmr0HiO.png" border="0" alt="" title="Cudi" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> ...


It’s how you use them. How are you going to spend money to get those guys over?



FrankAndersson said:


> I love how the defenders of AEW says it's wise not spending a bunch of money on these big stars when AEW is overspending loads of money on minor talent just because they happen to be friends with the guys running the show. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> The simple reasons to why there is hesitation are:
> 1. WWE (the company) offers proven financial stability and a long track record of existing. It's not losing money it's making a profit. Because of this, it doesn't depend on having a rich owner. Having a rich owner will help, but it won't guarantee stability if the company itself isn't profitable.
> ...


Excellent fucking post.


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Well guys we did it. We found the one guy Randy Ortons matches don't put to sleep.


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## shadows123 (Jan 30, 2017)

reyfan said:


> To be fair Jericho left WCW in 1999 when it was still hot, but he does have alot of years in the business and brings alot of experience with him so he is valuable.


But he, along with several others, did leave mainly because of the excess politiking at the top who were only concerned with putting themselves over... And Jericho has a fantastic mind for the business unlike certain people who just talk the big talk and then only care about putting themselves over.... When the time is right, I think Jericho will put someone over as the AEW champion.. His heel stable is fantastic, its time to build the other guys up.. He isnt getting cheered more importantly...Cody was the most over he probably ever has been as a babyface in his career during the feud.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

MontyCora said:


> Well guys we did it. We found the one guy Randy Ortons matches don't put to sleep.


Does anyone really sincerely doubt that Orton is very good at his job? He doesn’t need to go out there and be the most dynamic guy. When he’s on, he’s so much bigger than anyone on the AEW roster. Who would dispute that?


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## shadows123 (Jan 30, 2017)

The Wood said:


> Does anyone really sincerely doubt that Orton is very good at his job? He doesn’t need to go out there and be the most dynamic guy. When he’s on, he’s so much bigger than anyone on the AEW roster. Who would dispute that?


I think the talent was never in question.. But its been a while since he has been ON.. He has phoned in quite a lot.. His matches are mostly snoozefests, his feuds are total bathroom breaks.. I mean your feud can only work so much with "RKO out of nowhere as the basis".. To be fair, he does have the occassional ON mode feud but when was the last time?


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

The Wood said:


> Does anyone really sincerely doubt that Orton is very good at his job? He doesn’t need to go out there and be the most dynamic guy. When he’s on, he’s so much bigger than anyone on the AEW roster. Who would dispute that?


Then why does he only bother to be on when he's NOT in a match? Every major Orton match for YEARS now and during the preamble, I think "Orton is so great. He's hilarious. He's fun as hell. Great look. This guy is great. Why isn't he bigger than he is?"

Then the match happens. And it's the biggest snoozer on whatever card it is, until mercifully in the last 5 minutes after 20 minutes of total and utter boredom, powerslam, rope hung DDT, RKO.

B. O. R. I. N. G.

That's ABSOLUTELY my definition of laziness.


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

FrankAndersson said:


> 3. If I was a serious wrestler I would not want to associate with the likes of Dark Order, Orange Cassidy and Marko Stunt to name a few.


I'd rather be associated to a few former indie wrestlers than the company that makes blood money deals and has cuck angles on the main event of their flagship show.


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## ImSumukh (Mar 26, 2016)

Because they made their names “big” in WWE & want to spend rest of their professional days in WWE ? Not to forget Money they'll make to secure the future of their children.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

V-Trigger said:


> FrankAndersson said:
> 
> 
> > 3. If I was a serious wrestler I would not want to associate with the likes of Dark Order, Orange Cassidy and Marko Stunt to name a few.
> ...


Tony Khan makes blood money deals and most of the roster are probably into sharing.


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

End of the day AEW is just a glorified Indy fed at this point. They're a hardcore fans only company with no mainstream appeal. No one outside hardcore fans knows what AEW is. They could go under at any point being so new. At least WWE is guaranteed to be around.

The AEW roster is also stacked with geeks, The WWE roster is atrocious enough, but AEW's roster is mostly just the bottom of the barrel Indy geeks too terrible for the WWE.


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

I couldn't think of 1 good big guy im the industry right now that could move a needle


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> End of the day AEW is just a glorified Indy fed at this point. They're a hardcore fans only company with no mainstream appeal. No one outside hardcore fans knows what AEW is. They could go under at any point being so new. At least WWE is guaranteed to be around.
> 
> The AEW roster is also stacked with geeks, The WWE roster is atrocious enough, but AEW's roster is mostly just the bottom of the barrel Indy geeks too terrible for the WWE.


Good thing that the owner of the company offered 3m per year to Omega and promised The Elite a main event angle if they jumped.

Also, check what "indy" promotion means.


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

V-Trigger said:


> Good thing that the owner of the company offered 3m per year to Omega and promised The Elite a main event angle if they jumped.
> 
> *Also, check what "indy" promotion means.*


I didn't say they WERE an Indy fed, but ultimately they're a glorified Indy fed. They're not on the same level of WWE exposure or even in this day and age mainstream wise. Its a company for hardcore fans at this point. Thats what stops most big names jumping ship despite the equal money and freedoms as a worker. AEW simply isn't a big deal (yet).


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## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

FrankAndersson said:


> 3. If I was a serious wrestler I would not want to associate with the likes of Dark Order, Orange Cassidy and Marko Stunt to name a few.


Nice way to twist an argument. unk2

Except you've mentioned the obvious low-card wrestlers in AEW. How about being associated with hard workers, like Mox, Omega, Jericho, Cody and MJF? 

It's like me saying - if I was a serious wrestler, I would not want to associate with the likes of The Ascension, Mojo Rawley, No Way Hose and the B-Team. Like, what sense would that make? 

And you know, seriously, if I was a wrestler, I'd rather go to a company that will give me presentation I would deserve, freedom to wrestle and talk how I want, rather than being a slave for years, being presented as a geek, or worse a cuck on TV, while locked under a contract for 5 years. How can I seriously want something like that? Stability doesn't really matter. There's PLENTY of work in wrestling business, and AEW won't go under, it's laughable. TNA still didn't that should tell you something. It's a matter of who wants what. If you're fine being an idiot on national TV working for the company that every normal human being doesn't respect, then fine. But I'd rather have a little bit of self respect.


----------



## Greatsthegreats (Apr 15, 2015)

"Its best to be on hand with 10 people than absent with 10,000"


----------



## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

Not this again....


----------



## Freelancer (Aug 24, 2010)

AEW has stated multiple times that there are only a few WWE guys they are interested in. They would much rather build up their own guys. As an AEW fan, I agree with this 100%. I don't want AEW to become TNA, the place where all the WWE rejects go.


----------



## ScottishPsychopath (May 25, 2019)

Orton was never going to AEW as he is a total WWE guy.
Punk will go where the money was. And I think WWE/FOX would have thrown insane money at him to keep him away from AEW
WWE has everyone big in the wrestling world. Lesnar, Reigns, Rollins, Undertaker, Rock, Austin, Hogan, Lynch, Bryan, Punk, New Day

AEW's best bet would to be taking young or unknown talents and make stars out of them. They are doing this well with the likes of MJF, Luchasaurus and Sammy Guevera. They should keep doing that.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

All the majority of the big WWE wrestlers are under contract for a few years.

Also AEW was never interested in Randy Orton, they always knew that he was doing this to have a bigger contract from the WWE.

Jericho said that it's not because a WWE wrestler contract is ending that AEW will make him an offer.


----------



## FrankAndersson (May 26, 2019)

V-Trigger said:


> I'd rather be associated to a few former indie wrestlers than the company that makes blood money deals and has cuck angles on the main event of their flagship show.


And that's why a lot of the WWE talent prefers NXT. But I'm not talking about the company, I'm talking about the competitors.


----------



## ellthom (May 2, 2011)

Revival will still go there I think although I feel Revival will fit better on NWA Powerrr...


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

AEW has just about lost me. Kahn made it sound like this was going to be exciting. He doesn’t bid for shit. He could have money whipped Punk but he chose not to and now he has to face the music. AEW will drop below 800k tonight because all of the buzz will be about Punk and fans naturally will tune in to nXt wrongfully thinking he is going to be there.

At the end of the day AEW is just a higher budget TNA/ROH. But not high enough to be a player in the industry.

I just hope TNT goes ahead and drops them, this has to infuriate them, they thought they were getting the next Ted Turner but they got the next Dixie Carter instead.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Whysoserious? said:


> Yeah but Khan is richer than McMahon. It’s a weird situation...has you kinda worried about the future of the company


Billionaires don't spend money to spend money. Tony has a budget for AEW because he wants to make the thing profitable. Clearly the AEW model is to have a few named guys and then build their own talents.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

Which "big WWE wrestlers" were available to go to AEW ?

You guys have to remember that AEW have to wait for the contract to be over to do an offer.


----------



## FrankAndersson (May 26, 2019)

RBrooks said:


> Nice way to twist an argument. unk2
> 
> Except you've mentioned the obvious low-card wrestlers in AEW. How about being associated with hard workers, like Mox, Omega, Jericho, Cody and MJF?
> 
> ...


Except that in WWE, main eventers will only face low card guys if that means they are going over fast and convincingly with only few exceptions. There's a solid idea of who's on top and who's not. In AEW, just about every match needs to be a 20 min spot fest gymnastic extravaganza were no one is truly allowed to look dominant. We saw the Lucha Bros sell to Marko Stunt. Marko Stunt should be lucky he's sharing the same ring as those guys and should have been squashed in a minute. A main eventer (say modern day Seth Rollins) would never wrestle Mojo Rawley for 20 minutes on RAW he would beat him quickly, unless it's to make a storyline out of Rollins having lost his "mojo", pun intended.



ellthom said:


> Revival will still go there I think although I feel Revival will fit better on NWA Powerrr...


Yes please!


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

rbl85 said:


> Which "big WWE wrestlers" were available to go to AEW ?
> 
> You guys have to remember that AEW have to wait for the contract to be over to do an offer.


Obviously CM Punk. Kahn could have wrote the $25 million check and sentence shockwaves. Talent would be on notice at that point that AEW was real. Event if all they used him for was announcing, they should have significantly outbid Fox/WWE.

But Kahn would rather money whip Marko Kunt.


----------



## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

The Wood said:


> Most would have been considering it until they realised it is a 50/50 compound *where top talent has to coexist with geeks off the street.* Stars know how to protect their aura. When people have seen what AEW is batting with, they’ve realized that they aren’t going to be dethroning WWE anytime soon.



You mean Roman Reigns wouldn't want to work with 'Jimmy Havoc'?! But the neckbeards tell us people like Jimmy Havoc 'deserve it!'.


----------



## JustAName (Sep 17, 2012)

TKO Wrestling said:


> AEW has just about lost me. Kahn made it sound like this was going to be exciting. He doesn’t bid for shit. He could have money whipped Punk but he chose not to and now he has to face the music. AEW will drop below 800k tonight because all of the buzz will be about Punk and fans naturally will tune in to nXt wrongfully thinking he is going to be there.
> 
> At the end of the day AEW is just a higher budget TNA/ROH. But not high enough to be a player in the industry.
> 
> I just hope TNT goes ahead and drops them, this has to infuriate them, they thought they were getting the next Ted Turner but they got the next Dixie Carter instead.


Good riddance, hope AEW weeds out more of you, there are more than enough people that love what they are doing because it's not the same as everywhere else, which is exactly what a lot of people have been clamoring for. They have a clear direction so no wonder vacuum's like you are not gonna take well to not having your ignorant ego pandered to


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Obviously CM Punk. Kahn could have wrote the $25 million check and sentence shockwaves. Talent would be on notice at that point that AEW was real. Event if all they used him for was announcing, they should have significantly outbid Fox/WWE.
> 
> But Kahn would rather money whip Marko Kunt.


I highly doubt they are paying Marko Stunt anywhere near as much as they would've paid CM Punk.

In order to pay Punk $25m, Punk has to be willing to sign with AEW and he didn't really seem to be whenever he was asked about it.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

JustAName said:


> Good riddance, hope AEW weeds out more of you, there are more than enough people that love what they are doing because it's not the same as everywhere else, which is exactly what a lot of people have been clamoring for. They have a clear direction so no wonder vacuum's like you are not gonna take well to not having your ignorant ego pandered to


They will lose TNT and then all of you that feel this way will run back to ROH. Meanwhile those of us that wanted a 2nd MAJOR wrestling promotion will go back to our normal lives.

AEW was a fun ride, absolutely amazing from 1/1 through Double or Nothing. But since then they have debuted way more Stunts than LaXs and here we are, half filled stadiums coming up, half their initial audience on TNT gone, and soon TNT will follow the fans that’s are realizing how Indy TNTs show is.

Have fun tonight with Dark Order, Jimmy Havoc, Private Party, Stunt, or whatever indy act is promoted.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

shadows123 said:


> I think the talent was never in question.. But its been a while since he has been ON.. He has phoned in quite a lot.. His matches are mostly snoozefests, his feuds are total bathroom breaks.. I mean your feud can only work so much with "RKO out of nowhere as the basis".. To be fair, he does have the occassional ON mode feud but when was the last time?


But fans in the arena clearly still enjoy Randy. This just seems like folk blatantly ignoring that what Orton does works for him. Sort of similar to the folk who ignore that all the flips and balls to the walls stuff works. You can not like something while acknowledging it works. Orton is just proof that you don't need to work a break neck speed to get over.


----------



## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

FrankAndersson said:


> Except that in WWE, main eventers will only face low card guys if that means they are going over fast and convincingly with only few exceptions. There's a solid idea of who's on top and who's not. In AEW, just about every match needs to be a 20 min spot fest gymnastic extravaganza were no one is truly allowed to look dominant. We saw the Lucha Bros sell to Marko Stunt. Marko Stunt should be lucky he's sharing the same ring as those guys and should have been squashed in a minute. A main eventer (say modern day Seth Rollins) would never wrestle Mojo Rawley for 20 minutes on RAW he would beat him quickly, unless it's to make a storyline out of Rollins having lost his "mojo", pun intended.


Look, I'm not defending Marko Stunt, because I too think that his act is pretty stupid, but that's besides the point, because you're not making any sense. 

You're saying this like Lucha Bros are main eventers. They are a tag team, and we're talking about guys on Seth Rollins level of card placement. Pick up a fair comparison then. AEW doesn't have these kinds of matches also, they don't have Jericho or Cody against Marco Stunt or Orange Cassidy. They had both of them face Darby Allin, but that'd be like Seth facing Humberto, and guess what - he sold for him too. Exact same situation. Mox sold for Spears (which I didn't like personally), but they consider Spears at least a midcarder, so that's understandable too. 

I also find it funny how people say EVERY match in AEW is a spotfest. Really? Well, you didn't watch many matches then. Did you even consider that major part of AEW is their tag team division? Of course there's gonna be flippy shit with tag teams. But when you touch top guys, the matches are great. Every Mox match, every Jericho, Cody match, even Pac vs Page matches (even though Pac is a flippy guy) - are matches with storytelling and different kinds of pacing. Tell me with the straight face that Jericho vs Cody was a spotfest.


----------



## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

TKO Wrestling said:


> *Obviously CM Punk. Kahn could have wrote the $25 million check and sentence shockwaves.* Talent would be on notice at that point that AEW was real. Event if all they used him for was announcing, they should have significantly outbid Fox/WWE.
> 
> But Kahn would rather money whip Marko Kunt.


You're missing something important here: maybe, just maybe, Punk isn't worth what he was asking for. The guy is a reknowned dickhead, with ideas above his station. It's likely that Punk basically tried to extort the Khans, and they were having none of it. 

Punk's 'brand' has also been damaged. He was a laughing stock in the UFC. And even in WWE, his run as champion pulled the worst ratings since Diesel held the belt in the 1990's. Punk was also unpopular backstage, and the owner of the company must take into consideration the 'shockwaves' a deluded diva will have among the already established roster. Tony Khan is not oblivious to these things.

'No thanks, we're good'. This was likely the response from AEW. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Punk is 40 (?) and out of options.


----------



## shadows123 (Jan 30, 2017)

RapShepard said:


> But fans in the arena clearly still enjoy Randy. This just seems like folk blatantly ignoring that what Orton does works for him. Sort of similar to the folk who ignore that all the flips and balls to the walls stuff works. You can not like something while acknowledging it works. Orton is just proof that you don't need to work a break neck speed to get over.


Sure they do, when he is RKOing people "out of nowhere".. But matches or feuds involving him, yawn (most of the time).... 

This is in no way questioning his talent.. Hell its the opposite.. He could've been so much more if he puts his mind to it.. But anyway, like you said, It works for him.. Plus the amount of time he has been in the business, he better be over :lol


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Geeee said:


> I highly doubt they are paying Marko Stunt anywhere near as much as they would've paid CM Punk.
> 
> In order to pay Punk $25m, Punk has to be willing to sign with AEW and he didn't really seem to be whenever he was asked about it.


Punk clearly stated that he was open to AEW. It’s obvious they lowballed him, probably offered him less than $10 million a year. Ofcourse Punk wouldn’t act like he wanted AEW for chicken feed. He clearly said he was text an offer, then he came out with the $20 (WWE) to $25 (AEW) pay scale as a message to AEW to quit lowballing him.


----------



## looper007 (Dec 20, 2014)

shadows123 said:


> Sure they do, when he is RKOing people "out of nowhere".. But matches or feuds involving him, yawn (most of the time)....
> 
> This is in no way questioning his talent.. Hell its the opposite.. He could've been so much more if he puts his mind to it.. But anyway, like you said, It works for him.. Plus the amount of time he has been in the business, he better be over :lol


I like Randy, but I agree he hasn't had a feud for me since 2014 that's really interested me or a match that's really stood out for me.

No one can deny Orton when he's on form is very good, but when he half asses it he's one of those guys that just disappoints you cause you expect more out of him. He's a guy that's done everything in WWE, and it's clear WWE see him in the Jericho spot, put over young talent and have the odd big feud. But his days of headlining WM are over.

I never expected him to leave WWE. I wouldn't be surprised if he retires at the end of this contract he's just signed.


----------



## FrankAndersson (May 26, 2019)

I would worry less about WWE and more about why talent are choosing Impact Wrestling and NWA over AEW.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

FrankAndersson said:


> I would worry less about WWE and more about why talent are choosing Impact Wrestling and NWA over AEW.


Yeah it was an early days sign of just how tight Tony Kahn was when the Eli Drake negotiations ended with him signing with the NWA. 

I couldn’t wait for AEW to sign Kross/Cage/Tessa but I seriously doubt that they will pay Tessa or Kross anywhere close to what WWE will.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

FrankAndersson said:


> I would worry less about WWE and more about why talent are choosing Impact Wrestling and NWA over AEW.



Which talents choose Impact and NWA over AEW ?


----------



## FrankAndersson (May 26, 2019)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yeah it was an early days sign of just how tight Tony Kahn was when the Eli Drake negotiations ended with him signing with the NWA.
> 
> I couldn’t wait for AEW to sign Kross/Cage/Tessa but I seriously doubt that they will pay Tessa or Kross anywhere close to what WWE will.


Yet Orange Cassidy and Marko Stunt reportedly makes six figures. :hmmm


----------



## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

I for one am happy CM Punk went back to WWE. All the marks can come back to reality. Yes it would have been nice if he signed, but I never really believed that he would. When this guy wasn’t even making special guest appearances as either a commentator or a referee in places like ROH (his old stomping ground which he has no known animosity towards, unlike TNA) or NJPW (where there wouldn’t be endless CM Punk chants to bother him), or a cameo appearance in Lucha Underground, and he wasn’t there at All Out, at some point Punk marks needed to get a clue and realize he wasn’t interested in anything but WWE. I’m happy for him if that’s what he wants, but missing out on Punk isn’t a big deal to me. He always seemed like a miserable person to me.

Maybe fans will realize now that Omega, Cody, Young Bucks, Jericho, PAC and Moxley are the real deal, and more deserving of the following that Punk’s had for years. 

Moving on now.

If Sasha (who loves her craft), Nakamura (who basically retired since he doesn’t have to work a hard style like in NJPW and he can focus on his surfing), and Orton (whose been stale and stagnant for years) wont leave, why would anyone else? These men and women are choosing financial stability over creative freedom and financial independence as independent contractors, even though the latter may result in a bigger and more recognizable brand for them than what WWE can give them in the long term, and therefore more money. It’s why I would be shocked if someone like Alexa Bliss would leave WWE for AEW, since she seems like a WWE lifer.


----------



## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

FrankAndersson said:


> I would worry less about WWE and more about why talent are choosing Impact Wrestling and NWA over AEW.


Who specifically rejected AEW for Impact?


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

FrankAndersson said:


> Yet Orange Cassidy and Marko Stunt reportedly makes six figures. :hmmm


And people wonder why they have lost half their viewers and are in half filled arenas. They only sold 4200 tickets for tonight lol. But the ROH Dynamite fans say don’t worry. Ofcourse not, when this blows up they will just go back to ROH. Those of us that have waited 20 years for the next Ted Turner will keep waiting forever, Kahn for sure is nowhere close to the wrestling owner Ted Turner was.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

shadows123 said:


> Sure they do, when he is RKOing people "out of nowhere".. But matches or feuds involving him, yawn (most of the time)....
> 
> 
> 
> This is in no way questioning his talent.. Hell its the opposite.. He could've been so much more if he puts his mind to it.. But anyway, like you said, It works for him.. Plus the amount of time he has been in the business, he better be over [emoji38]


So much more? Idk man I don't think he could be much bigger than he is. But agree to disagree


----------



## FrankAndersson (May 26, 2019)

rbl85 said:


> Which talents choose Impact and NWA over AEW ?


Well, just look at their rosters. There are great talent there that are way beyond 50% of the AEW roster. They should easily be in AEW if AEW aims to be a serious player. So the question is why aren't they? 

Were AEW not smart enough to secure key contracts *before* deciding to run a show? Or did the talent say thanks but no thanks to the pitch? The "well they are under contract" argument isn't valid because talent could have been signed earlier, or they could have waited for a better time. It's like if I start a software company and I got this great idea for a product but I haven't hired any good coders and when the product turns to shit I blame my competitors for having hired all the good programmers. I should blame myself for not doing my research before jumping into the game. 

The last option is that the people who run AEW simply prefer shitty coders.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

TKO Wrestling said:


> And people wonder why they have lost half their viewers and are in half filled arenas. They only sold 4200 tickets for tonight lol. But the ROH Dynamite fans say don’t worry. Ofcourse not, when this blows up they will just go back to ROH. Those of us that have waited 20 years for the next Ted Turner will keep waiting forever, Kahn for sure is nowhere close to the wrestling owner Ted Turner was.


You're on drugs right ?


----------



## Nothing Finer (Apr 12, 2017)

They do. Kenny Omega and Jon Moxley were the two hottest free agents in wrestling, Chris Jericho is a legend, Cody, The Young Bucks and Pac are all fairly big names.

They have a two hour show and 4 or 5 PPVs a year, they can't sign everyone.

With CM Punk there are two good explanations I can see

1) He doesn't intend to wrestle again, in which case he's no use to AEW.
2) His ambition is to main event WrestleMania, in which case AEW is no use to him


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

FrankAndersson said:


> I would worry less about WWE and more about why talent are choosing Impact Wrestling and NWA over AEW.


Meh. If you combined these three rosters, you'd have Jericho, Moxley and a bunch of Indy wrestlers and WWE lower midcarders that need to be built up, so it doesn't really change much for AEW overall. These brands are all trying to establish their identity


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

FrankAndersson said:


> Well, just look at their rosters. There are great talent there that are way beyond 50% of the AEW roster. They should easily be in AEW if AEW aims to be a serious player. So the question is why aren't they?
> 
> Were AEW not smart enough to secure key contracts *before* deciding to run a show? Or did the talent say thanks but no thanks to the pitch? *The "well they are under contract" argument isn't* valid because talent could have been signed earlier, or they could have waited for a better time. It's like if I start a software company and I got this great idea for a product but I haven't hired any good coders and when the product turns to shit I blame my competitors for having hired all the good programmers. I should blame myself for not doing my research before jumping into the game.
> 
> The last option is that the people who run AEW simply prefer shitty coders.



Of course it is valid.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

rbl85 said:


> You're on drugs right ?


Nope but If I have to sit through another Private Party/Dark Order/Marko Stunt/Orange Cassidy segment then I probably will start.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Nope but If I have to sit through another Private Party/Dark Order/Marko Stunt/Orange Cassidy segment then I probably will start.


They didn't have the choice to put Stunt on TV with the injury of Luchasaurus just before the show.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

rbl85 said:


> They didn't have the choice to put Stunt on TV with the injury of Luchasaurus just before the show.


They signed him to begin with. They could have easily debuted Wardlow for Luchasuaras.


----------



## Ger (Jul 20, 2018)

Dibil13 said:


> WWE has the most money.


Vince won`t bury his money for Orton, because that would ruin the price for the complete roster even more. Also we are just talking about getting a few bigger names, not about taking over 200 wrestlers from WWE at once. Btw ...



Whysoserious? said:


> Yeah but Khan is richer than McMahon.


This. 



Death Rider said:


> Not really. Rather they didn't waste money on signing a bunch big names and instead build their own talent up


Marko Stunt and Riho?




DOTL said:


> Because WWE has the money to turn talents' eyes into dollar signs.
> Do you honestly think all else equal, a person would work for WWE over a company that allows greater creative freedom?


I have my doubts, that Orton is looking forward to take a "creative" Hadoken.  Seriously: at his age he gives a damn about starting over somewhere else and trying to reinvent wrestling.




looper007 said:


> Cause AEW is new, maybe in 5 to 10 years time you might see it happening more regularly but right now it's a massive risk for any top unhappy WWE talent wanting to jump ship.


But that was not common sense with all people on this board. 
Some people were looking forward to AEW, because they didn`t see their beloved wrestlers being pushed somewhere else, so they thought AEW would teach other companies a lesson and hire these wrestlers for a big push in AEW. We read that over months, before AEW even started.

Regarding 5 to 10 years: In european football we saw a few new teams which started from the sub-leagues, because they had to by the rules. All this teams got good talent from the very beginning. If Khan offers a good wrestler enough money, he will sign with AEW. 




MontyCora said:


> I wouldn't count out Bryan quite yet, but he does have a family to provide for, so security is probably appealing to him.


It was more secure to him, to accept big money from Khan right now, instead doing the McMahon long time stuff.




patpat said:


> in "few" years if aew keep being this successful, they will have built their own stars and wont need anyone from the outside tho lol.


All these people are from "outside". 




James Hurley said:


> Maybe AEW doesn't want them.
> 
> They have all the ingredients to build their own stars.


Who is AEW in this case? Khan`s dad or the Young Bucks got very different motives, believe it or not.
*I am pretty sure this is about some wrestlers being in business positions in AEW, who dislike signing wrestlers who would outshine them.*




Freelancer said:


> AEW has stated multiple times that there are only a few WWE guys they are interested in. They would much rather build up their own guys. As an AEW fan, I agree with this 100%. I don't want AEW to become TNA, the place where all the WWE rejects go.


You are aware of they signed Spears?



rbl85 said:


> All the majority of the big WWE wrestlers are under contract for a few years.
> 
> Also AEW was never interested in Randy Orton, they always knew that he was doing this to have a bigger contract from the WWE.


So Spears is the biggest name they could sign from WWE? I have my doubts no other contracts were/are on the line. Also there are other promotions out there and I guess all of them would love to accept some big money from Khans.


----------



## FrankAndersson (May 26, 2019)

rbl85 said:


> They didn't have the choice to put Stunt on TV with the injury of Luchasaurus just before the show.


Another team taking their place.
A different replacement for Luchasaurus.
A one on one match.
A handicap match.
Jungle Boy forfeiting the match.

All of the options above would be better.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

AEW have to wait until the wrestler are not Under any contract to start negociating with them.

Moxley started negociating with AEW only after is contract was over.


----------



## Stylebender (Oct 12, 2019)

The company did there first show 6 months ago and has only been on tv for one month. Relax. In a short period of time they managed to get two of the biggest stars in the world. More will come.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Mox and Jericho are bigger stars than 95% of anyone out there and they sure signed up without hesitation.


----------



## Ham and Egger (Dec 13, 2005)

AEW doesn't need any more big names trying into get to their company. The promotion was founded through their own talent and effort. If a Randy Orton or Punk doesn't want to come then so be it. Plus, for those who're thinking of a WWE mass exodus happening, how many spots do you think is available for them in AEW? There's only so many spots to be filled. Thinking about signing "big" names and putting them in forefront was the downfall of TNA and WCW.


----------



## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

Whysoserious? said:


> Dibil13 said:
> 
> 
> > WWE has the most money.
> ...


Khan would need to pay Randy $20M or more per year to jump. There’s risks for any big name star jumping .... it’s one of the reasons that Bischoff had to make Hogan’s first WCW Deal so lucrative.

Furthermore, no one is weeks or months away from their contracts expiring. We’re talking next summer at the earliest, and WWE is hitting Rusev and Revival each week with progressively higher offers. And since they are still under contract, AEW cannot negotiate with them.

The one downside to this for WWE is that’s they will be left with an unsustainable pay structure in five years if they cannot get another giant rights deal. In that scenario - a lot of wrestlers will take haircuts in a post AEW world.


----------



## Buhalovski (Jul 24, 2015)

Khan is not richer than McMahon, his father is. Same stuff as Dixie. 

At least Tony is not as dumb as her.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

V-Trigger said:


> Eva MaRIHyse said:
> 
> 
> > End of the day AEW is just a glorified Indy fed at this point. They're a hardcore fans only company with no mainstream appeal. No one outside hardcore fans knows what AEW is. They could go under at any point being so new. At least WWE is guaranteed to be around.
> ...


What kind of logic is this? He offered them a “main event” program? TNA can offer people “main event” programs too. Every card has a main event. 

Also, let’s keep in mind that he offered a relative nobody, in the sense he has never been on basic cable television before, $3 million. 



RBrooks said:


> FrankAndersson said:
> 
> 
> > 3. If I was a serious wrestler I would not want to associate with the likes of Dark Order, Orange Cassidy and Marko Stunt to name a few.
> ...


But that’s the point: You don’t get self-respect in AEW, because the Battle Royal to decide the headliner of your big PPV has Glacier freezing people and comedy geeks. They’re in your division. Everyone has parity. A lot of stars would understand the danger in that. 



Freelancer said:


> AEW has stated multiple times that there are only a few WWE guys they are interested in. They would much rather build up their own guys. As an AEW fan, I agree with this 100%. I don't want AEW to become TNA, the place where all the WWE rejects go.


AEW can say that all they want, but the reality is they took Tye Dillinger and have given Joey Janela a job. They’re hurting for talent and have taken every single piece of driftwood they can grab. 



ScottishPsychopath said:


> Orton was never going to AEW as he is a total WWE guy.
> Punk will go where the money was. And I think WWE/FOX would have thrown insane money at him to keep him away from AEW
> WWE has everyone big in the wrestling world. Lesnar, Reigns, Rollins, Undertaker, Rock, Austin, Hogan, Lynch, Bryan, Punk, New Day
> 
> AEW's best bet would to be taking young or unknown talents and make stars out of them. They are doing this well with the likes of MJF, Luchasaurus and Sammy Guevera. They should keep doing that.


Orton has only been a WWE guy because WWE has been the only game. There is no demonstrable evidence that he is a WWE soldier until the end. If there were credible opposition, there’s no reason to think he wouldn’t have thought about jumping. I also happen to know that he did.

This is like saying “Diesel was never going to go to ECW. He was a WWF guy through and through,” just because there’s no WCW. 



rbl85 said:


> All the majority of the big WWE wrestlers are under contract for a few years.
> 
> Also AEW was never interested in Randy Orton, they always knew that he was doing this to have a bigger contract from the WWE.
> 
> Jericho said that it's not because a WWE wrestler contract is ending that AEW will make him an offer.


Lots of top talent have had their contracts come up or be coming up as this thing was cooking. Daniel Bryan, AJ Styles, Shinsuke Nakamura, The Usos, Randy Orton. Probably Brock Lesnar too. Cain Velasquez and CM Punk have also had the opportunity to jump. 

They’re just not going.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Except most of those guys resigned before AEW actually got off the ground.


----------



## Ham and Egger (Dec 13, 2005)

LongPig666 said:


> Who specifically rejected AEW for Impact?


The only person that comes to mind is Kylie Rae and that is a story in itself. I wonder what caused her to leave.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

It's all about the money. Vince will pay wrestlers any amount. Khans will not do that. Mox took a pay cut, Jericho took a pay cut, Omega and Bucks took a pay cut etc. They want people who want to be there, not who are just there because they offered the most money. It's a cultural thing for the lockerroom - that they're all in it together. 

When Jericho and Cody talk about not wanting WWE guys it's because by in large those guys have long sold out their passion for money. They were unwilling to walk away like Cody did, like Moxley did. 

AEW has long term plans for Wardlow - you don't hot shot him into teaming with Jungle Boy completely reactionary and without a long term plan. I could be way wrong here, but I think Wardlow is going to be put alongside MJF, possibly as soon as tonight.


----------



## Buster Baxter (Mar 30, 2015)

There is not a large enough sample size to make this claim. Jericho jumped ship. Moxley jumped ship, and no one saw that coming, your fucking lying if you say you did.

AEW hasn't even been around that long so most guys aren't going to want to just gamble on that which makes sense.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Whysoserious? said:


> Yeah but Khan is richer than McMahon. It’s a weird situation...has you kinda worried about the future of the company


So was Ted Turner. No actually it makes me feel good about company long term. Khan have business plan and want to be successful company. They aren't gonna throw around huge dollars to get every wrestler to come there. Plus CM Punk not even wrestling for WWE. He wanted big money just to show up. AEW wasn't going to do that.


Getting Jericho and Moxley within one year was more then enough big moves. You can't expect every people name to jump. It's not like WCW days when they were offering big money for guys to leave and WWE couldn't match it. Right now WWE has more money because they are profitable company. 


Once AEW gets out of red for being a start up. Then they might go crazy with contract offers. For now they signed enough big name talent. If another big name WWE guy wants to jumpship they will be interested. But they aren't going to throw huge dollars at people to get them to leave. The Khan family are smart businessmen for a reason.


----------



## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

I’m still somewhat surprised that Enzo hasn’t been signed. As far as I know he’s available, is young, and is a great talker.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Taroostyles said:


> Except most of those guys resigned before AEW actually got off the ground.


Bullshit. Bryan signed before AEW was officially announced, but All In was a thing and he surely knew the rumblings. This thing didn’t hatch overnight. He signed a new deal in like August or September last year. All In was planned for months at that point. 

All the others signed this year. The only one I am sketchy on is Brock. I thought his deal was up, but can’t remember anything specifically about it.

But it’s just a flat-out lie that the talent signed before AEW was off the ground. It was no secret that Tony Khan, the son of a billionaire looking to spend $500 million on Wembley Stadium, was starting a wrestling promotion. 



Buster Baxter said:


> There is not a large enough sample size to make this claim. Jericho jumped ship. Moxley jumped ship, and no one saw that coming, your fucking lying if you say you did.
> 
> AEW hasn't even been around that long so most guys aren't going to want to just gamble on that which makes sense.


Jericho jumping was obvious the moment he did All In. He was in the initial rumors. It was not shocking at all when he signed. Moxley leaving WWE was a surprise, but after that, him signing with AEW was not. 

That people see it as a gamble says a lot about the industry’s attitude towards it.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Seafort said:


> I’m still somewhat surprised that Enzo hasn’t been signed. As far as I know he’s available, is young, and is a great talker.


He's too busy living his gimmick to be able to trust him I think. Also he's very poor in ring, but his mouth makes him a top guy. Does nZo vs Moxley draw? nZo vs Omega? nZo vs Cody? 

He's too good on the mic and too much of a wildcard. He'd bury talent you want to be putting over.


----------



## kingfrass44 (Sep 19, 2019)

Tsvetoslava said:


> Khan is not richer than McMahon, his father is. Same stuff as Dixie.
> 
> At least Tony is not as dumb as her.


If Tony's not stupid.
When he gives cody and Kenny Authority


----------



## FaceTime Heel (Sep 1, 2016)

Whysoserious? said:


> Yeah but Khan is richer than McMahon. It’s a weird situation...has you kinda worried about the future of the company


Almost all of Vince's money is pro wrestling money where as damn near none of Khan's money is pro wrestling money. That's the fundamental difference between the two IMO.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> He's too busy living his gimmick to be able to trust him I think. Also he's very poor in ring, but his mouth makes him a top guy. Does nZo vs Moxley draw? nZo vs Omega? nZo vs Cody?
> 
> He's too good on the mic and too much of a wildcard. He'd bury talent you want to be putting over.


I think the people in charge of AEW does not like him at all.


----------



## Matthew Castillo (Jun 9, 2018)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Obviously CM Punk. Kahn could have wrote the $25 million check and sentence shockwaves. Talent would be on notice at that point that AEW was real. Event if all they used him for was announcing, they should have significantly outbid Fox/WWE.
> 
> But Kahn would rather money whip Marko Kunt.


25 million would be a full quarter of AEW's annual budget.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

$25M for Punk and the Mox is pissed, Jericho wants more etc. 

They have a salary structure they need to stick with.


----------



## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> $25M for Punk and the Mox is pissed, Jericho wants more etc.
> 
> They have a salary structure they need to stick with.


Exactly...it blows up their salary structure. Look back to 1997 and Vince was in the same boat with Bret's deal, which was so much higher than everyone else. Shawn then wanted a similar deal, and likely Undertaker would have as well when his contract came up. Barring the Attitude Era explosion, it was not a sustainable salary situation for WWE at the time.

And Mox can reportedly opt out of his deal in April 2020 - so you're looking at vastly higher expenditure for him as well in a few months.


----------



## Buster Baxter (Mar 30, 2015)

The Wood said:


> Bullshit. Bryan signed before AEW was officially announced, but All In was a thing and he surely knew the rumblings. This thing didn’t hatch overnight. He signed a new deal in like August or September last year. All In was planned for months at that point.
> 
> All the others signed this year. The only one I am sketchy on is Brock. I thought his deal was up, but can’t remember anything specifically about it.
> 
> ...


Moxley leaving WWE and joining AEW are one in the same no one would've known anything had they not done that press release. So yes it was still a surprise.

Of course people are going to see it as a gamble, WWE is the bigger brand from being around for so long. AEW hasn't been around for a full year yet. If someone is looking for financial security, it's only logical to go with something that's already established. That's common sense.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Seafort said:


> Exactly...it blows up their salary structure. Look back to 1997 and Vince was in the same boat with Bret's deal, which was so much higher than everyone else. Shawn then wanted a similar deal, and likely Undertaker would have as well when his contract came up. Barring the Attitude Era explosion, it was not a sustainable salary situation for WWE at the time.
> 
> And Mox can reportedly opt out of his deal in April 2020 - so you're looking at vastly higher expenditure for him as well in a few months.



Man, imagine the money Vince will offer Moxley in April. I bet he'd offer a no-strings one year deal just to take him from AEW without forcing Mox to lock in long term.


----------



## Britz94xD (May 17, 2019)

If Punk appeared on the debut episode of Dynamite, drove an ice cream truck to the ring while throwing ice cream bars to the fans = over 3 million viewers.

Should've shelled out the cash man, AEW would've been doing similar numbers to Raw and SD.


----------



## SPCDRI (Mar 15, 2010)

The Khan family has more money, but they made that money for decades off of things that weren't pro wrestling. They are not living 110 percent by a professional wrestling organization succeeding as their one and only baby. 
Whatever AEW offers a big name WWE would want, WWE has more money than God when it comes to professional wrestling. They can offer double or triple the cash or more that AEW does without blinking for a top name.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Ger said:


> Dibil13 said:
> 
> 
> > WWE has the most money.
> ...


I am not sure what you are trying to say. Are you trying to say they are big names? Also marko stunt is barely featured. Fuck it the amount of obsession he gets out of him being with the company they should push as you guys clearly love him


----------



## kingfrass44 (Sep 19, 2019)

SPCDRI said:


> The Khan family has more money, but they made that money for decades off of things that weren't pro wrestling. They are not living 110 percent by a professional wrestling organization succeeding as their one and only baby.
> Whatever AEW offers a big name WWE would want, WWE has more money than God when it comes to professional wrestling. They can offer double or triple the cash or more that AEW does without blinking for a top name.


Delete


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Well to be honest it's for the better for AEW to try n create stars instead of use ones made but yes obviously some big names would attract casuals


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Britz94xD said:


> If Punk appeared on the debut episode of Dynamite, drove an ice cream truck to the ring while throwing ice cream bars to the fans = over 3 million viewers.
> 
> Should've shelled out the cash man, AEW would've been doing similar numbers to Raw and SD.


Exactly. Most of us thought Kahn was willing, actually eager, to invest what it took to sign Punk. Then in April you money whip Mox when he opts our. Who cares if Jericho is unhappy? You have CM Punk, much bigger star than Jericho.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Exactly. Most of us thought Kahn was willing, actually eager, to invest what it took to sign Punk. Then in April you money whip Mox when he opts our. Who cares if Jericho is unhappy? You have CM Punk, much bigger star than Jericho.


What if Punk doesn't want to wrestle ?


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Chan Hung said:


> Well to be honest it's for the better for AEW to try n create stars instead of use ones made but yes obviously some big names would attract casuals


Can’t create stars if your platform is as tiny as AEWs. Punk immediately puts AEW in the mid 1’s in ratings and blows nXt out of the water thus creating the type of platform needed for MJF and the others to become stars.


----------



## ElTerrible (Feb 8, 2004)

They also have to account for the pay structure. You pay all your mailman 10 dollars the hour, then you bring one in for 1000 dollars the hour, all the other mailman want a pay-raise, too. At the end of the day they all just delivering mail. 

If you bring in guys like Orton, you also run the big risk, that they even deliver the mail slower than the 10 dollar mailman. Now you got locker room problems. 

Don´t you think Lesnar and all these Saudi Legend appearance deals contribute massively to the unhappiness of other talent in WWE. Lesnar doesn´t move the needle, so why does he get millions of dollars to wrestle 25-30 minutes a year, while I´m busting my ass in Sioux City, Iowa on a Monday Night.


----------



## BulletClubFangirl (Jan 30, 2016)

Probably a spiteful troll thread but I am a bit frustrated with the roster. Judging from interviews Tony didn't seem to be aggressively pursuing anyone. Or maybe he just acted lackadaisical about it to save face if he failed to get big names. I wish they could've tempted AJ at least. The fact that we'll never get AJ vs Omega is criminal.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

rbl85 said:


> What if Punk doesn't want to wrestle ?


He clearly stated that he would wrestle for $20 million (WWE) to $25 million (AEW) per year. It is that simple. Who cares if the others are mad about the amount?

Mox is literally the only one that matters on the entire roster and apparently his deal is up in April from what ive read here today so they will have to money whip him anyways to keep him away from Vince's huge contracts.

Jericho? Don't care at all if he is mad, he is not on Mox or Punks level. Cody? Omega? I mean, seriously, these guys are getting paid $3 million + already and delivering half filled arenas and ratings that will be smaller than nXt starting tonight.

Sucks!!! I hate WWE. This in effect kills any chance of wrestling truly getting a new WCW sized company.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

BulletClubFangirl said:


> Probably a spiteful troll thread but I am a bit frustrated with the roster. Judging from interviews Tony didn't seem to be aggressively pursuing anyone. Or maybe he just acted lackadaisical about it to save face if he failed to get big names. I wish they could've tempted AJ at least. The fact that we'll never get AJ vs Omega is criminal.


It sucks for sure, horrible roster. They should have signed guys like Austin Aries & Eli Drake to get that midcard higher, people don't want to watch Shawn Spears. They just don't. These guys are light years ahead of Shawn Spears level.

I mean, damn. They aren't even trying. Kahn should buy Impact & MLW just to get their rosters and to hype that they are combining all the companies to come after Vince.

Move Dynamite to Friday and get this thing going. It's embarassing that they are a few hours away from nXt beating them in the ratings for the first time. NXT!!!


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

The Wood said:


> There’s too much creative freedom though. There’s no discipline or psychology enforced. On the same show as an awesome Jericho segment you are going to get Joey Janela using a finisher before the finish and stop selling to yell at clouds before he starts selling again. No one really takes that seriously.
> 
> Yeah, it would be nice to cut your own promos. But you want to be part of a team you can trust too. Even publicly there are way too many cooks and things are inevitably going to blow up at some point.


I think you're overstating the danger. I mean how much worse would that be than Vince cratering organic heat because of his terrible personal tastes? I rather deal with dozens of creative inputs than one.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

TKO you're out of your fucking mind….

In what world do you live ?!

It's not a game, do you get that ?

You don't just push a button to buy a company or a wrestler….fucking idiot


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Seafort said:


> I’m still somewhat surprised that Enzo hasn’t been signed. As far as I know he’s available, is young, and is a great talker.


I haven't lost the faith that they can atleast sign nZo. He would be an awesome manager and a great way to debut Brian Cage someday would be with nZo as his mouthpiece.


----------



## NascarStan (Mar 26, 2019)

WCW and TNA would both back in the day splash the cash for any old ex wwe star and it didn't work, Punk would've been a big signing for AEW and bring in the ratings short term but it's clear as day he's after the biggest pay check and does not have the same passion for wrestling so having someone like that on the roster is long term unhealthy.

What is going to the crux to AEW long term success is building it's own identity with new talent and diamonds in the rough in the same way wwf built it's own younger roster in 96/97 with younger talent previously misused talent in other companies(Austin, Rock, HHH, Foley, Goldust, Shamrock)


----------



## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

I told everyone Punk wasn't coming to AEW. There were millions of threads here about it over the summer with people being so sure it would happen. He's no doubt getting paid good money by FOX, and barely has to do anything. Can't blame him for a smart financial decision. 

I wouldn't be surprised if we see Moxley go back at some point, too, especially if his wife is still working there a couple of years down the line. It probably won't be next year when his 1 year option expires, but I could see it happen in 3 years. Everyone goes back there eventually. Of course, it means I won't be watching him anymore, since I won't subject myself to watching WWE's garbage product, nor will I be watching AEW anymore.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

AEWMoxley said:


> I told everyone Punk wasn't coming to AEW. There were millions of threads here about it over the summer with people being so sure it would happen. He's no doubt getting paid good money by FOX, and barely has to do anything. Can't blame him for a smart financial decision.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if we see Moxley go back at some point, too, especially if his wife is still working there a couple of years down the line. It probably won't be next year when his 1 year option expires, but I could see it within the next 2-3 years. Everyone goes back there eventually. Of course, it means I won't be watching him anymore, since I won't subject myself to watching WWE's garbage product, nor will I be watching AEW anymore.


Mox leaving AEW would be WORSE than when AJ left TNA. 

And it is going to happen because Kahn simply refuses to legitimately invest in AEW. He should have just bought ROH since they had all of the elite guys already. 

Thats all AEW is, ROH + Mox + slightly better production values though, again, another area where Kahn won't invest, the production values are crap compared to WWE.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

AEWMoxley said:


> I told everyone Punk wasn't coming to AEW. There were millions of threads here about it over the summer with people being so sure it would happen. He's no doubt getting paid good money by FOX, and barely has to do anything. Can't blame him for a smart financial decision.


Hey we agree about something, isn't it more shocking than Punk working for FOX ?>


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Punk ain't delivering 3M fans to AEW. I wanted Punk if he wanted wrestle again and wanted to stick it to Vince. That Punk does not exist. Punk is trying to get paid and doesn't really care about the wrestling industry. He went back to Vince - that tells you all you need to know about his motives. 

It takes two to tango and Punk isn't right for AEW. His returning to Vince proved it (again). I mean his Starrcast interview proved it already - that weekend closed the door on him ever wrestling for AEW. 

I like AEW's upper card - Moxley, Omega, Jericho, Cody, PAC, Hangman, Hager. Their midcard is lacking BUT no wwe wrestlers is going to choose to leave WWE to come in as a midcarder - you have to develop your undercard in house. You do that strategically and over time. Allin, MJF, Sammy Guevara are all guys AEW is "making" right now - Allin with his tough losses to the top guys, MJF in his connection and now coming huge feud with Cody and Guevara because of connection with Jericho and the Inner Circle. 

SCU has been elevated as well since Dynamite started - and that was largely done by having Bucks put over Penta/Fenix who in turn then put over SCU in the tournament. 

Also undercard will gradually grow just from becoming known entities by appearing on television a couple times a month.


----------



## Fizanko (Apr 4, 2016)

BulletClubFangirl said:


> I wish they could've tempted AJ at least. The fact that we'll never get AJ vs Omega is criminal.


Back in 2006 when Kenny Omega walked away from WWE , he had a match at Premier Championship Wrestling event (PCW Back To School Bash on the 21.09.2006) with AJ Styles.

Now finding that match ...


----------



## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Mox leaving AEW would be WORSE than when AJ left TNA.
> 
> And it is going to happen because Kahn simply refuses to legitimately invest in AEW. He should have just bought ROH since they had all of the elite guys already.
> 
> Thats all AEW is, ROH + Mox + slightly better production values though, again, another area where Kahn won't invest, the production values are crap compared to WWE.


It would certainly be a huge blow to AEW if he left.

Let's see what they do in the coming year or two. I've liked the direction they've gone in with more promos and non-wrestling segments, but this roster is hurting them a lot. If it doesn't improve drastically, they'll get to a point where they'll need to have Moxley appear 4-5 times per episode just to keep people watching. They may already be at that point.


----------



## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

rbl85 said:


> Hey we agree about something, isn't it more shocking than Punk working for FOX ?>


It was cringy reading all of those "I can FEEL it - CM Punk will make his debut at All Out!" posts. Then when that didn't happen, it was, "they are saving him for Dynamite!"


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

AEWMoxley said:


> It was cringy reading all of those "I can FEEL it - CM Punk will make his debut at All Out!" posts. Then when that didn't happen, it was, "they are saving him for Dynamite!"


Even Cody said about 2 months ago on twitter "No CM Punk will not be part of AEW, i actually think he will go back to the WWE" (or something like that)

And everybody was "oh he's working us" but Cody was just saying the truth XD


----------



## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

rbl85 said:


> Even Cody said about 2 months ago on twitter "No CM Punk will not be part of AEW, i actually think he will go back to the WWE" (or something like that)
> 
> And everybody was "oh he's working us" but Cody was just saying the truth XD


Good point. I do remember him saying that.


----------



## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

Simple: There is no one big in wrestling anymore. Thank WWE for that shit. Even Lesnar isn't big as he once was. This isn't the 90s anymore where there where big names all over the map. There are people with a following, but thats about it. Mox and to and extent Punk are about it for anyone wanting big stars jumping ship.

AEW is doing what WWE did in the mid-90s and taking lesser talent to elevate, many of which, much like Austin, did have a big following before they got the brass ring to be a star. In this age where the WWE has watered down talent in its "The show is the star" mindset, thats about all a company can do now.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Punk ain't delivering 3M fans to AEW. I wanted Punk if he wanted wrestle again and wanted to stick it to Vince. That Punk does not exist. Punk is trying to get paid and doesn't really care about the wrestling industry. He went back to Vince - that tells you all you need to know about his motives.
> 
> It takes two to tango and Punk isn't right for AEW. His returning to Vince proved it (again). I mean his Starrcast interview proved it already - that weekend closed the door on him ever wrestling for AEW.
> 
> ...


Their upper card is legit 3 guys; Mox, Jericho, & Omega. Cody isn't allowing himself to contend for the title, so he is in reality going to be the guy that they send people through on their way to the main event scene, starting with MJF. And that is a PERFECT place for Cody, ideal use of his talent, name, and crowd love.

Their midcard is Hangman, Pac, Cody, Sammy, & MJF right now. MJF and Hangman can grow into main eventers, I don't see it with Pac at all but he is a fantastic wrestler and the perfect upper midcard heel.

After that, there is no one coming up. This is where buying out Impact & MLW would pay off, you would grab Cage, Fatu, you would get the chance to win Kross over and keep him, plus all of the other guys. 

Your tag division is basically 4 teams; Bucks, LAX, Lucha Bros, & SCU. Once Luchasuras is back, you have a 5th team. Add Pillman/Smith, Von Erichs, & The North to that and you have a STACKED 8 man tag division.

So basically AEW needs to make 3 key investments:

1. Buy out Impact & MLW to fill the roster. This also allows AEW Impact to become sort of their nXt, a place for the Hammerstones, Private Party's, etc...to develop and become television ready. They could run Impact out of a studio setting like nXt and NWA and really do alot to develop talent.

2. Three legit main eventers to go with Jericho, Mox, & Omega. I think one more is fine, which is why I wanted Punk so bad, but you have to hope that MJF becomes one sooner rather than later. By obtaining Impact & MLW, you gain access to guys like Kross, Cage, & Fatu who could all be main eventers sooner rather than later, especially if Kahn would write the check to get the entire Samoan Dynasty here.

3. Production. AEW would be smart to find an entirely new production team, much higher quality.


----------



## BulletClubFangirl (Jan 30, 2016)

Fizanko said:


> Back in 2006 when Kenny Omega walked away from WWE , he had a match at Premier Championship Wrestling event (PCW Back To School Bash on the 21.09.2006) with AJ Styles.
> 
> Now finding that match ...


Yeah Kenny credited that match for sparking his passion for wrestling again after contemplating a career in MMA. Unfortunately finding that match is harder than finding his MMA fights. That was before Kenny really came into his own too.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

AEWMoxley said:


> It would certainly be a huge blow to AEW if he left.
> 
> Let's see what they do in the coming year or two. I've liked the direction they've gone in with more promos and non-wrestling segments, but this roster is hurting them a lot. If it doesn't improve drastically, they'll get to a point where they'll need to have Moxley appear 4-5 times per episode just to keep people watching. They may already be at that point.


I hope you're right. Honestly they should have started off as 1 hour for Dynamite, just like Nitro was for their first year. AEW has the roster to make an amazing 1 hour show. But 2 hours is just dragging because it forces crap like Private Party, Dark Order, Shawn Spears, etc...on to television.

If they had Impact & MLWs roster to combine with AEWs, then yes, they could go a 2nd hour.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle (Dec 6, 2011)

Its a brand new promotion that only got on tv a few weeks ago. Making the move at this point is potentially risky because its so unproven and unstable. If in a year or so AEW is still on tv and at least holds somewhat steady numbers wise then jumping ship will seem more viable to other WWE talent imo.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Lesnar Turtle said:


> Its a brand new promotion that only got on tv a few weeks ago. Making the move at this point is potentially risky because its so unproven and unstable. If in a year or so AEW is still on tv and at least holds somewhat steady numbers wise then jumping ship will seem more viable to other WWE talent imo.


Thats fine, NWA/JCP was at that level for sure. But atleast they bought out the Impacts & ROHs of their day and put together a mega roster.

AEW WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER with Brian Cage, Fatu w/Samoan Dynasty, Killer Kross, etc....


----------



## A-C-P (Jan 5, 2010)

Just overpaying for all the "big names" is one of the bigger reasons WCW flamed out as quickly as it did, Khan Man and The Elite are in this for the long-run which means building their own stars, not overpaying to try and steal "stars" from the WWE, which won't work anyways b/c the WWE doesn't have any needle moving individual stars right now anyways (more so do to the WWE's own booking, writing, etc)

Also, believe what you want but Jericho and Moxley (Ambrose) are big names in today's wresting enviornment). Also Omega and the Bucks were both offered good money by the WWE to come work for them as well. Cody could've stayed with and kept working for WWE, as well as PAC. So that's already seven people who have chosen AEW over WWE. Hell you can argue 9 or 11 b/c the WWE also wanted the Lucha Bros and Santana & Ortiz.


----------



## kingfrass44 (Sep 19, 2019)

A-C-P said:


> Just overpaying for all the "big names" is one of the bigger reasons WCW flamed out as quickly as it did, Khan Man and The Elite are in this for the long-run which means building their own stars, not overpaying to try and steal "stars" from the WWE, which won't work anyways b/c the WWE doesn't have any needle moving individual stars right now anyways (more so do to the WWE's own booking, writing, etc)
> 
> Also, believe what you want but Jericho and Moxley (Ambrose) are big names in today's wresting enviornment). Also Omega and the Bucks were both offered good money by the WWE to come work for them as well. Cody could've stayed with and kept working for WWE, as well as PAC. So that's already seven people who have chosen AEW over WWE. Hell you can argue 9 or 11 b/c the WWE also wanted the Lucha Bros and Santana & Ortiz.


Jericho He was in New Japan before aew Everyone knows Going aew 
Even Vince McMahon Know Jericho He's going aew
Jericho Talk Vince McMahon About aew Before aew


----------



## A-C-P (Jan 5, 2010)

kingfrass44 said:


> Jericho He was in New Japan before aew It's no surprise.
> Jericho Talk Vince McMahon About aew Before aew
> Vince McMahon Know Jericho He's going aew


And how does any of this change the fact that Jericho is choosing to work for AEW over WWE?


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

No one is currently available, that's why.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

AEW is also establishing their lockerroom culture. They want guys who want to be there to take on the evil empire. Right now it's mostly handpicked guys they know from the indies that they got along well with. Aries, Punk, Drake are known malcontents - you really have to watch your lockerroom right now. Punk would have been worth the hassle, Aries and Drake are not needle movers. 

Next "name" male wrestlers brought in will likely be Marty Scurrl and Luke Harper. Scurrl of course is Elite, and Arn Anderson recently was waxing poetic about Harper as the guy he'd love to bring in (talked about his rigtht mentality/mindset for the business). Scurrl is up in days/weeks, and Harper probably 4-5 months at most depending on how much time WWE tacks on out of spite. 

I fully expect The Revival to re-sign with wwe. Too much money and security for them to ultimately walk away from.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

One thing to consider, guys like Jericho and Moxley who like to shoot from the hip, might prefer an unscripted environment. However some guys might prefer a more rigid environment, where everything is prepared for them and they just have to go out and perform it.


----------



## Maffchew (Jun 21, 2019)

Geeee said:


> One thing to consider, guys like Jericho and Moxley who like to shoot from the hip, might prefer an unscripted environment. However some guys might prefer a more rigid environment, where everything is prepared for them and they just have to go out and perform it.


Plus the perception of WWE online completely ignores all the pros. It's not like the talent show up and have to walk over hot coals to enter the building. From all reports, the backstage culture is the best it's ever been, which plays a massive role.

Going from WWE to AEW isn't a simple transition. There's financial uncertainty, career uncertainty and above all that, you're essentially leaving a lot of close friendships behind. For some it might be worth it for the professional freedom but others are happy with the status quo, and you can't blame them.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

Everyone's different. They all have different mentalities.

Moxley had already made enough money, and he was just done with what they had him doing in WWE. AEW was perfect for him.

For other guys who are happy enough and have a certain level of comfort with WWE, like Miz and Orton who just re-signed, they don't feel the need to go anywhere. Plus they know WWE will take care of them financially, even more so with AEW around.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Maffchew said:


> Plus the perception of WWE online completely ignores all the pros. It's not like the talent show up and have to walk over hot coals to enter the building. From all reports, the backstage culture is the best it's ever been, which plays a massive role.
> 
> Going from WWE to AEW isn't a simple transition. There's financial uncertainty, career uncertainty and above all that, you're essentially leaving a lot of close friendships behind. For some it might be worth it for the professional freedom but others are happy with the status quo, and you can't blame them.


Thats why I hold out hope that TNT ends up buying AEW since it appears Kahn is already in over his head. Then they could possibly have the money to become a major wrestling promotion, not a super ROH like it is right now.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

In what world is CM Punk a bigger star than Chris Jericho? 

Jericho has been around for 30 years during the height of both WCW and WWEs biggest periods. He is the lead singer of a rock band that has toured with legit rock stars. He was the 1st undisputed champion and pinned Rock and Austin in the same night. If you wanna go even further in today's terms, Jericho has 3.5 million IG followers vs Punks 500k. 

Punk was a great performer and interview who had a legendary title reign. He is in no way the bigger star.


----------



## komba (Feb 22, 2016)

The only guys you are going to get are the guys who are absolutely starving to do something different and have more creative authority. Guys like Owens and Daniel in my opinion make a lot of sense. I'd pay extremely close attention when there contracts are up.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

Wonder what account number OP is on...


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Owens and Bryan are signed for 3-4 more years. Vince and Co will start forcing talent with under two years to re-sign vs taking them off the road for the remainder of their contracts. Very few will take that, along with turning down the offered raise. 

AEW will have to mine the low indies - as WWE will sign anybody to NXT who gets any indie buzz. And even the top names in ROH, MLW and Impact will all get bigger offers from WWE. I hope out zero hope of Tessa Blanchard choosing AEW over WWE. Even guys like Fatu and Pillman Jr are much more likely to WWE when their MLW contracts are up.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Orton was never coming. It was clear as a day he was trying to land a better contract with WWE. Smart move on his part. IDK why anyone would even think for a second that someone like Orton would ever consider leaving WWE for competition. 

Punk isnt interested in wrestling. AEW focuses on in-ring competition more than the mic time clearly. What would have Punk done there? Control Center? 

The so called Mass Exodus was just people jumping the gun. If AEW manages to stay alive for the next few years. I can see it happening with major stars like Bryan, KO, Samy etc.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

I have 100% more interest is what MJF is going to say, than what Punker will be saying in a Fox backstage program

If he’s not wrestling, he’s as useful as a 3rd nipple

That being said - if AEW got him as an active talent, it would have been awesome - but it was not to be.

Why aren’t they getting bigger names? Mox, Jericho, Pac, LAX are all pretty big actually. Even Hager is not too bad.

Give it time I guess?


----------



## Ray McCarthy (Jun 9, 2018)

Didn’t AEW make a point of saying that there were only a handful of guys that they were interested in? Seems like they’d prefer to create their own stars. Relying on WWE’s cast offs is what turned TNA into a joke.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal (Feb 24, 2014)

FrankAndersson said:


> I love how the defenders of AEW says it's wise not spending a bunch of money on these big stars when AEW is overspending loads of money on minor talent just because they happen to be friends with the guys running the show. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> The simple reasons to why there is hesitation are:
> 1. WWE (the company) offers proven financial stability and a long track record of existing. It's not losing money it's making a profit. Because of this, it doesn't depend on having a rich owner. Having a rich owner will help, but it won't guarantee stability if the company itself isn't profitable.
> ...


Shiiit, if i was a wrestler i definately wouldn't work for no fucking rich dude who hasnt been jack shit since the 80s. Ill value freedom,happiness and creativity over a paycheck any damn day of the week. Most people sign to wwe because they want the money knowing damn well they're careers are gonna be in the shitter.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

A more alarming question would be 

‘Why would anybody choose NXT over AEW’ - like Scarlett did. 

And what it’ll mean for guys like Kross and so in - the next generation

More worried about that


----------



## Rated Phenomenal (Dec 31, 2011)

Because its not established yet? No matted how much they scream " we're REAL wrasslin" they're still minor leagues, how on earth some of you thought a guy like Randy Orton would go there baffles me.


----------



## Bryan Jericho (Sep 8, 2014)

Because WWE is a proven big company and the most well known in the world. AEW is still a start up promotion at this point and who knows how long it will last. If it last 3-4 years and is still going, then I could see bigger names heading there, but right now it's not worth the risk to most.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal (Feb 24, 2014)

TKO Wrestling said:


> JustAName said:
> 
> 
> > Good riddance, hope AEW weeds out more of you, there are more than enough people that love what they are doing because it's not the same as everywhere else, which is exactly what a lot of people have been clamoring for. They have a clear direction so no wonder vacuum's like you are not gonna take well to not having your ignorant ego pandered to
> ...


Ok,we get it. You hate everything about aew and what they do. Why do people come on here just to bitch and moan about another promotion? Dont like it,dont watch it. I love aew and what they're doing.


----------



## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

I'd rather AEW focus on building up new stars than being like TNA of a few years past and grabbing up as many ex-WWE guys as possible. AEW has something good going for them, they have a nice blend of indies and established talent and they should continue to build up their roster . They don't need guys like Punk , Orton , Lesnar or Cain Velasquez. Also, you have to imagine that some wouldn't want to completely shut the door on going to the WWE , so they'd rather not join AEW to fear of being essentially black balled


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> A more alarming question would be
> 
> ‘Why would anybody choose NXT over AEW’ - like Scarlett did.
> 
> ...


Do we know AEW made an offer? 

Also I'd guess it was money. Scarlett was still living with her mother when working for Impact if Kross is to be believed.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> A more alarming question would be
> 
> ‘Why would anybody choose NXT over AEW’ - like Scarlett did.
> 
> ...


Yes it is very alarming. Killer Kross is the type of talent that you can really make into a main eventer over time. He would fit right into the MJF/Hangman/Sammy group. As would Cage & Fatu. 

Holding out hope!! Thats why I wish Tony would just buy them out. That is how WCW got Sting back in the day, by buying out the ROHs and Impacts of the mid 80s.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Nickademus_Eternal said:


> Ok,we get it. You hate everything about aew and what they do. Why do people come on here just to bitch and moan about another promotion? Dont like it,dont watch it. I love aew and what they're doing.


No, I love them. They essentially replaced TNA which replaced WCW for me as my favorite promotion. 

You guys can go back and forth with it, I don't want to sign all ex WWE guys, I wouldnt want Rollins, Reigns, or any of those guys. Orton, yes, he seems so old school and would fit right into AEWs vibe.

Punk? Absolutely, for all of the obvious reasons. 

I don't want alot of their guys. Dream off NXT, Usos to go with Fatu and the Samoan Dynasty, Riddle who I think is the closest thing WWE has to an up and comer that could end up as high in the ranks some day as MJF. 

I mean, the thought of signing the Revival is straight out of TNAs playbook. A guy like Punk is once in a lifetime, he had that built up story of WALKING OUT on WWE, not being a reject, and he would have put AEWs ratings in the 1.2-1.5 area and helped with the sagging attendance.

I am a huge fan. I love the guys they have up and coming, specifically MJF and Luchasauras.

But you need a platform and stars to make that work. Even Stone Cold, in the coldest days of the WWF where WCW was signing every and anyone, were the big budget company, etc...had Bret Hart-Shawn Michaels-Undertaker to get him over.

I am hoping Jericho-Mox can do the same for MJF. Because that guy, MJF, is the one person other than Mox on the AEW roster that can get hot and lead AEW to the promised land.

Which is why im an AEW fan. I am the fan that wants to see someone truly challenge WWE. It is more fun to watch two great teams go against each other.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

1. They're not an established brand yet and some people may not want to leave their careers to chance going to AEW.

2.They have several big names already. Why do they need to gobble up ever big star in wrestling now? It's better for them to build up their OWN roster because it'll be better for them in the long run. I don't get how people whine about no new stars being made yet AEW is doing that very thing and there's a problem? It's like people wanna see the same shit over and over again. I already seen what people like Eli Drake and Austin Aries have done. Let's see some new talnet. 

3. People are really overestimating what Punk means to any company. The guy is not that damn important and he's not that much of a draw. On top of that look where he's at now...He made his choice. Shut the fuck up about him because he ain't going to AEW.

4.I like how people are acting like AEW is failing and TK is some dumbass that The Elite conned into doing a wrestling promotion with. You don't do what they do and get to where they are now with that type of business relationship. They're working together and they know what they're doing so stop with the assumptions and bullshit. 

That's all..for now. Maybe I'll post later.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal (Feb 24, 2014)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Nickademus_Eternal said:
> 
> 
> > Ok,we get it. You hate everything about aew and what they do. Why do people come on here just to bitch and moan about another promotion? Dont like it,dont watch it. I love aew and what they're doing.
> ...


I agree with everything you said brother. Id love to see bray,mia yim,chad gable,street profits,and the kabuki warriors in aew. Insane I know.


----------



## Versatile (Apr 4, 2015)

Some times the best deals are the ones you don't make, CM Punk is not worth $25 mill to just stand in the ring and talk and not wrestle at all.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Do we know AEW made an offer?
> 
> Also I'd guess it was money. Scarlett was still living with her mother when working for Impact if Kross is to be believed.


Very true - we don’t know if they even offered

But I’m sure they’re interested in Kross

Will be interesting how that plays out


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Very true - we don’t know if they even offered
> 
> But I’m sure they’re interested in Kross
> 
> Will be interesting how that plays out


If Marko Stunt and Orange Cassidy indeed have 6 figure salaries, surely she is worth it. Just to land Kross.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

TKO Wrestling said:


> If Marko Stunt and Orange Cassidy indeed have 6 figure salaries, surely she is worth it. Just to land Kross.


....... what in the world makes you think Stunt and OC makes 6 figures?


----------



## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Punk clearly stated that he was open to AEW. It’s obvious they lowballed him, probably offered him less than $10 million a year. Ofcourse Punk wouldn’t act like he wanted AEW for chicken feed. He clearly said he was text an offer, then he came out with the $20 (WWE) to $25 (AEW) pay scale as a message to AEW to quit lowballing him.


It's not obvious at all. Punk simply thinks he's bigger than he actually is. When he was leaving WWE, he said he'd stay if WWE could get him a role in the new Ghostbusters movie - laughable delusion.

Again, this guy drew the worst ratings in 17 years as champion in WWE. While trying to 'make it' outside WWE, he bombed in the UFC and was rejected by Hollywood because nobody knows who he is, nor cares.

Abject delusions of grandeur aren't Tony Khan's problem. Just because TK has money, doesn't mean he has to waste it indulging some diva -- that's not how billionaires stay billionaires.

Simply put; AEW deduced, probably correctly, that CM Punk is not worth the money.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

roadkill_ said:


> It's not obvious at all. Punk simply thinks he's bigger than he actually is. When he was leaving WWE, he said he'd stay if WWE could get him a role in the new Ghostbusters movie - laughable delusion.
> 
> Again, this guy drew the worst ratings in 17 years as champion in WWE. While trying to 'make it' outside WWE, he bombed in the UFC and was rejected by Hollywood because nobody knows who he is, nor cares.
> 
> ...


So did Kevin Nash and he sent WCW business into orbit. But it is what it is, hopefully MJF makes us forget about it tonight. MJF is the shit.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ....... what i the world makes you think Stunt and OC makes 6 figures?


Read it on here this morning.


----------



## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ....... what i the world makes you think Stunt and OC makes 6 figures?


Someone reported (probably Meltzer) that even their lower level talent is on 5 figures.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

DesoloutionRow said:


> Wonder what account number OP is on...


Even if this was intended as a troll, I think it has sparked an interesting conversation


----------



## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Seeing as punk is the main focus in this thread currently and rather than making a new thread, I have to ask what does cm punk have that cody Rhodes doesn't, I would say cody is currently as good on the mic as punk was in his best years and even then he had to rely on going into shoot mode during his promos. Looks wise I would say cody has a better wrestler look and in the ring he's currently as good as anything I've seen from punk, with cody he's able to produce a good match with almost anyone at this point where as punk wasnt able to do such a thing and tended to needed an equally as good opponent to produce a good to great match.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

Geeee said:


> Even if this was intended as a troll, I think it has sparked an interesting conversation


Has it? Or has it regurgitated what WCW and Total Impact have demonstrated to us ad nauseam?


----------



## I'mTheGreatest (Aug 3, 2019)

Whysoserious? said:


> Yeah but Khan is richer than McMahon. It’s a weird situation...has you kinda worried about the future of the company


Yeah you need to build your own stars 100% but adding couple big names will help for sure.

They need to start spending money when guys are available.


I wonder if they don't want anyone making more than Cody, Omega and the Bucks? 

That's an issue if so.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Why are people talking $25 million for Punk? Seriously, if he wanted to work there, he'd probably do it at the same price as Jericho.


----------



## Zbagint (Jul 25, 2018)

The Wood said:


> Most would have been considering it until they realised it is a 50/50 compound where top talent has to coexist with geeks off the street. Stars know how to protect their aura. When people have seen what AEW is batting with, they’ve realized that they aren’t going to be dethroning WWE anytime soon.


The irony of having over 4500 posts on a wrestling forum and calling people that make a living and are watched by a million people "geeks." You must be a real cool guy


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit (Aug 23, 2016)

Money.

Uncertainty.

Age.

Apathy.

Complacency.

Family.

Actual contentment.

Or any variation therein.

:draper2


----------



## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

The Wood said:


> Why are people talking $25 million for Punk? Seriously, if he wanted to work there, he'd probably do it at the same price as Jericho.


I threw that number out there.

Basically I was spitballing how much WWE would be willing to offer to keep Punk from going to AEW, and how much Tony Khan would need to overpay to overwhelm WWE. *It's a ludicrous figure*, but not that far off in percentage from how much more Bret Hart received from WWE versus the second highest paid wrestler in 1996 when there was a bidding war.


----------



## Matthew Castillo (Jun 9, 2018)

Seafort said:


> I threw that number out there.
> 
> Basically I was spitballing how much WWE would be willing to offer to keep Punk from going to AEW, and how much Tony Khan would need to overpay to overwhelm WWE. *It's a ludicrous figure*, but not that far off in percentage from how much more Bret Hart received from WWE versus the second highest paid wrestler in 1996 when there was a bidding war.


Yes, but Hart's contract was going to be paid out over the course of 20 years.


----------



## Piehound (Dec 16, 2015)

Cause Vince got the guaranteed $$ and it is a pretty safe bet he won't go under.

Also, it is only a fairly recent thing that Vince got over being pissy about hiring former TNA guys. If it took him that long to get over that, how long will it take him to get over hiring ex-AEW guys if it comes to that? There may also be the fear that he'd just go the route he did with most of the WCW guys if they went AEW and Vince won.


----------



## Piehound (Dec 16, 2015)

I'mTheGreatest said:


> I wonder if they don't want anyone making more than Cody, Omega and the Bucks?
> 
> That's an issue if so.



Fair point. In general, management tends to get their kickers in a wad if the worker bees earn more $ than they do..


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

Piehound said:


> Fair point. In general, management tends to get their kickers in a wad if the worker bees earn more $ than they do..


Jericho and Moxley make more than them so….


----------



## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

Matthew Castillo said:


> Seafort said:
> 
> 
> > I threw that number out there.
> ...


Right, but the first three years were 1.5M each year. Shawn was the next highest at $600K.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Seafort said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> > Why are people talking $25 million for Punk? Seriously, if he wanted to work there, he'd probably do it at the same price as Jericho.
> ...


Ah, I see. Not a criticism, I just saw quite a few people saying it like it was reported or something.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

reyfan said:


> Someone reported (probably Meltzer) that even their lower level talent is on 5 figures.


5 figures, sure - especially as a lot of them have dual roles

10k to 99k

Marko is most likely on something like 40k - while doing some other work as well


----------



## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

Punk was good, but never saw him as a mega star. 
Is Vince just willing to spend more for the big names? I like AEW as it is for the time being.


----------



## kingfrass44 (Sep 19, 2019)

Piehound said:


> Cause Vince got the guaranteed $$ and it is a pretty safe bet he won't go under.
> 
> That's a real problem.
> If he doesn't make any aew profits He's going to be in trouble, and they're not going to be able to keep the stars.


----------



## Sonicyoot (Jan 29, 2019)

Because then everybody will start saying that AEW is WWE’s retirement home ala TNA. 

AEW doesn’t need any 40+ wrestlers. Jericho is all they need.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Sonicyoot said:


> Because then everybody will start saying that AEW is WWE’s retirement home ala TNA.
> 
> AEW doesn’t need any 40+ wrestlers. Jericho is all they need.


What are you talking about lol, Daniels is 49, Kazarian is 42, and Dustin is 50. They actually have more champions over 40 than under.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Matthew Castillo said:


> TKO Wrestling said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously CM Punk. Kahn could have wrote the $25 million check and sentence shockwaves. Talent would be on notice at that point that AEW was real. Event if all they used him for was announcing, they should have significantly outbid Fox/WWE.
> ...


And you are now forced to throw crazy money at the rest of the roster as well. 

Vince can do it, because his living is wrestling. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

RapShepard said:


> What are you talking about lol, Daniels is 49, Kazarian is 42, and Dustin is 50. They actually have more champions over 40 than under.


Actually...

Riho is 22 yrs old, Scorpio Sky is 36 yrs old. Daniels is not a tag team champion. So it's two over 40 and two under 40.

Not a big name, but he's a free agent none the less right now it seems - 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1194834005901946882
Yay or nay? I think I'd pass on him. Given he was in contract negotiations with MLW but they couldn't agree it makes me believe WWE isn't interested. Probably figure Riddle is their MMA guy right now. I think Japan would be his best career decision if they are interested.


----------



## cai1981 (Oct 2, 2016)

Security! Yeah, the Khans may have more than the McMahons, but are they going to pump their own money into the organization when the company hasn't made any real money yet??? WWE has so much money coming in from their TV Deals, their own Network, Saudi as well as other avenues that AEW Dynamite can beat all 3 shows in ratings every week and they will not suffer.

This is what the talent is going to take into consideration...yeah, the Khans have money, but AEW is not proven. They have LONG way to go! So, if WWE is throwing around guaranteed money and people know they aren't going anywhere, they are going to take it as opposed to risking going to a company that is just getting started. For what it is worth now, AEW is losing viewers almost every week on their shows and that has to be a red flag. 

Eventually, some talent may be available that can help further legitimize them (imagine if they didn't have Jericho), but now, until they prove that they can hold serve and build with a relatively weak roster outside of the star in Jericho and solid (but not huge star type) guys like Moxley, and Cody along with a lot unprovens, they will not get much if any crossover talent.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS (Dec 14, 2016)

They already have the biggest wrestler in the world - Jon Moxley is the only wrestler, to my knowledge, who currently increases viewership in every segment that he's in, every week, consistently. Not Reigns, not Rollins, not Lesnar. 

There are no needle movers out there. I want AEW to go aggressively after guys and girls who's talents could contribute to a quality and creatively stimulating product. That is what will impact the ratings and buys. How talent is developed and presented. I don't give a damn about a brand name as long as someone is good and neither do general audiences.


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Whysoserious? said:


> We heard how the dirt sheets reported how there would be a mass exodus from WWE. We thought Orton was one name heading to AEW, nope. We thought Punk would go to AEW, nope. It’s weird how no big names outside of Jericho and Mox want to jump ship.


You truly are one of the worst posters on this forum.


WTF are you talking about nobody big want to come to AEW? 

Moxley, Page, and the Bucks were some of the biggest free agents in wrestling who Vince wanted them all, and they all turned down big WWE contracts to go to AEW.

As for "jumping ship" Orton was always a WWE lifer, and Punk didn't sign with WWE, he signed with FOX. 

AEW also said they won't talk everyone from the WWE nor should they.

Not to mention AEW has made more new stars in just a few short months since being on TV than WWE has made in years.


----------



## llj (Feb 22, 2018)

reyfan said:


> Because nobody wants to jump to a new promotion, it fail, and then go crawling back to Vince with their tail between their legs, once the company has been around a few years you might see bigger names jumping, think of Kurt Angle jumping to TNA for example.


THIS. It's just not a wise decision financially to go to a company that could be done in less than 5 years. Nobody knows how AEW will do, I hope they manage to grow, but if they don't, or their audience shrinks into the sub 500k within 2 years, I could see the Khans pulling the plug on AEW. Maybe old guys like Jericho won't be hurt by it, but younger guys who may still have some years left will have to go back to the WWE with a spiteful and even more dementia-ridden Vince.


----------



## Whysoserious? (Oct 24, 2019)

birthday_massacre said:


> You truly are one of the worst posters on this forum.
> 
> 
> WTF are you talking about nobody big want to come to AEW?
> ...


How am I the worst ? I have my own opinion. Outside of Mox and Jericho the rest are meh. Young Bucks are lame, Page is cool though. My point was for higher profile stars such as Punk and Orton


----------



## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

CHAMPIONSHIPS said:


> They already have the biggest wrestler in the world - Jon Moxley is the only wrestler, to my knowledge, who currently increases viewership in every segment that he's in, every week, consistently. Not Reigns, not Rollins, not Lesnar.


That makes no sense. Even if Moxley _did_ increase viewers, their cap is 1.4m (for one week only) and now they're under a million. I'm pretty sure that Rollins, Reigns and Lesnar have been involved in segments that were watched by more people. I don't even think that WWE has _ever_ dipped to 1.4


How does your metric in ANY way indicate that Moxley is the "biggest" wrestler in the world?


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Whysoserious? said:


> How am I the worst ? I have my own opinion. Outside of Mox and Jericho the rest are meh. Young Bucks are lame, Page is cool though. My point was for higher profile stars such as Punk and Orton


All you do is troll the AEW section. You are wrong, Moxley was a huge profile star and he picked AEW over WWE. Everything you keep saying is wrong.




KYRA BATARA said:


> That makes no sense. Even if Moxley _did_ increase viewers, their cap is 1.4m (for one week only) and now they're under a million. I'm pretty sure that Rollins, Reigns and Lesnar have been involved in segments that were watched by more people. I don't even think that WWE has _ever_ dipped to 1.4
> 
> 
> How does your metric in ANY way indicate that Moxley is the "biggest" wrestler in the world?


Ratings by WWE standrads tank under Rollins, and Lesnar. So you were saying? Lesnar and Rollins have been the focal point on WWE for years and the ratings keep dropping.


----------



## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

birthday_massacre said:


> Ratings by WWE standrads tank under Rollins, and Lesnar. So you were saying?



Think you're missing the point here. Even if they tank ratings, they're _still_ being watched by more people than Moxley in AEW.


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

Whysoserious? said:


> We heard how the dirt sheets reported how there would be a mass exodus from WWE. We thought Orton was one name heading to AEW, nope. We thought Punk would go to AEW, nope. It’s weird how no big names outside of Jericho and Mox want to jump ship.


Nobody thought Orton was jumping ship. And why would he? He's had one of the best booked careers in the last 20 years. He even pretends he's unhappy, Vince would give him another push.

And most probably didn't think Punk was either, that was just wishful thinking.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

Rick Sanchez said:


> Nobody thought Orton was jumping ship. And why would he? He's had one of the best booked careers in the last 20 years. He even pretends he's unhappy, Vince would give him another push.
> 
> And most probably didn't think Punk was either, that was just wishful thinking.


Yeah, I think a lot of people were expecting Punk, especially when he was at that Starrcast the same weekend as the ppv. Surprisingly I think quite a few still think he could show up. While I think he’d still move the needle for AEW, more fans are coming around to realize that the company is doing just fine without him, and will continue to. Now that Full Gear is done, last night was the next step to building up new stars. Once more fans see more of these new faces on tv regularly, they’re going to care less and less about the Punks and Ortons. It would certainly help move things along quicker if a few big names make the jump, but it’s going to become less and less of a necessity. 

But don’t waste your time trying to convince the latest chronic complainer of anything. If these people want to see a bucketful of shit where everyone else sees a boatload of promise and potential, they’re going to see a bucketful of shit. And they’re trying their damnedest to make sure everybody else sees shit. #15 on Reggie’s List. >


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS (Dec 14, 2016)

KYRA BATARA said:


> That makes no sense. Even if Moxley _did_ increase viewers, their cap is 1.4m (for one week only) and now they're under a million. I'm pretty sure that Rollins, Reigns and Lesnar have been involved in segments that were watched by more people. I don't even think that WWE has _ever_ dipped to 1.4
> 
> 
> How does your metric in ANY way indicate that Moxley is the "biggest" wrestler in the world?


Which, as you should know by now is a reflection of WWEs brand draw, not the value of any individuals. In fact Rollins and Lesnar LOSE viewers. They're a drag on the brand. Moxley is a draw and on top of that, hung near the top of WWE for years anyway.


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

KYRA BATARA said:


> Think you're missing the point here. Even if they tank ratings, they're _still_ being watched by more people than Moxley in AEW.


I am not missing any point, Lesnar and Rollns get people to tune out, Mox gets people to tune in. Also WWE has been on for decades, AEW has been on TV for just over a month.


----------



## Sir Linko (Oct 10, 2019)

Man outside of Punk, which actually for some reason put a pit in the bottom of my stomach, I really don't care for much of anyone else. I was a huge Dolph Ziggler mark back in 2010 / 2011 so I wouldn't mind seeing him.

Otherwise keep people from WWE out man. Unless they actually have huge potential or have a ton of buzz behind them for a business move. AEW is doing fine home-growing talent.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

birthday_massacre said:


> KYRA BATARA said:
> 
> 
> > Think you're missing the point here. Even if they tank ratings, they're _still_ being watched by more people than Moxley in AEW.
> ...


Um, several million people watch Brock and Seth. A few hundred thousand watch Moxley.


----------



## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

The Wood said:


> Most would have been considering it until they realised it is a 50/50 compound where top talent has to coexist with geeks off the street. Stars know how to protect their aura. When people have seen what AEW is batting with, they’ve realized that they aren’t going to be dethroning WWE anytime soon.


Which is fine. AEW is just starting out and should be more worried about building up their product then taking on Vince. Impact made that mistake (along with other piss poor decisions) in wanting to challenge WWE and it hasn’t worked out. So far, AEW has been focusing on their own product and that’s what they should be doing.


----------



## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

CHAMPIONSHIPS said:


> Which, as you should know by now is a reflection of WWEs brand draw, not the value of any individuals. In fact Rollins and Lesnar LOSE viewers. They're a drag on the brand. Moxley is a draw and on top of that, hung near the top of WWE for years anyway.



Moxley is a big fish in a small pond. _Of course_ he's going to draw more interest than the likes of Joey Janela and Adam Page. Even if you were right about Lesnar and Rollins, they're _still_ getting watched by more people than Moxley in AEW. 


The data does not support your claim that Jon Moxley is the "biggest wrestler in the world". You're only presenting evidence that he's the most popular guy to a relatively niche fanbase that consists of less than a million people.


----------



## Lord Trigon (Apr 23, 2018)

How could a mass exodus even be possible with the current contract situations? 

Also, most probably aren't willing to gamble their futures on a company that's been in existence for the blink of an eye. Maybe check back in when AEW has managed to stick around for more than a year.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

KYRA BATARA said:


> Moxley is a big fish in a small pond. _Of course_ he's going to draw more interest than the likes of Joey Janela and Adam Page. Even if you were right about Lesnar and Rollins, they're _still_ getting watched by more people than Moxley in AEW.
> 
> 
> The data does not support your claim that Jon Moxley is the "biggest wrestler in the world". You're only presenting evidence that he's the most popular guy to a relatively niche fanbase that consists of less than a million people.


Lesnar maybe. But Seth Rollins wouldn't even be drawing what Moxley is right now. Moxley proven he clearly has a edge and better outside of WWE. I'm not sure Seth could do that without WWE machine behind him to come up with Burn it Down catchphrases. Or nicknames like Beastslayler/Kingslayer. While WWE machine had negative impact on him with crap like Lunatic Finge or Ambrose Asylum etc.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

The Wood said:


> Um, several million people watch Brock and Seth. A few hundred thousand watch Moxley.


Lol you mean like 2 to 2 and half million watch WWE and around 1 million watch AEW? Also yes people might watch WWE for Brock. But Rollins isn't in the same conversation. That's like saying people watch Raw for Lesnar and R-Truth. Rollins wouldn't be able to reinvent himself and be better. He's someone who needs WWE marketing and scripts to give him more charisma. So he wouldn't improve if he left WWE. Which is why he's company man standing up for WWE at all times. Because he knows he needs them.


----------



## greasykid1 (Dec 22, 2015)

I think AEW are just making sure they get a proper foothold first, before going after more expensive talent.

They were trying to get Punk as another ace up their sleeve, but they don't really need much more right now.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS (Dec 14, 2016)

KYRA BATARA said:


> Moxley is a big fish in a small pond. _Of course_ he's going to draw more interest than the likes of Joey Janela and Adam Page. Even if you were right about Lesnar and Rollins, they're _still_ getting watched by more people than Moxley in AEW.
> 
> 
> The data does not support your claim that Jon Moxley is the "biggest wrestler in the world". You're only presenting evidence that he's the most popular guy to a relatively niche fanbase that consists of less than a million people.


Being "watched by more people" is bad framing. By this logic Buddy Murphy and Drake Maverick are bigger wrestlers than Chris Jericho and Jon Moxley. Your framework just doesn't work because it ASSUMES that because someone is being watched that they are being recognized. Use a framework that doesn't rely on that assumption


----------



## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

CHAMPIONSHIPS said:


> Being "watched by more people" is bad framing. By this logic Buddy Murphy and Drake Maverick are bigger wrestlers than Chris Jericho and Jon Moxley. Your framework just doesn't work because it ASSUMES that because someone is being watched that they are being recognized. Use a framework that doesn't rely on that assumption



You can logically conclude that Moxley is bigger than Drake and Bubby based on the fact that Moxley had a long tenure as an upper-midcarder in the WWE while the latter have barely been featured. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.


You're throwing around the claim that Moxley is the BIGGEST wrestler in the world based around him getting more viewer increase than anyone else in AEW. I'm saying that this metric means shit because even if true, AEW is still averaging under a million viewers every week. Seth and Brock were NEVER part of segments that dipped this low, so even if they _did_ lose viewers, there's still far more people that tune in to watch them than Moxley in AEW. This whole "well the brand draws" is just assumption, it's not sustainable evidence that'd hold any weight in court. Put Moxley's merch sales, Web traffic on average, social media following up against the likes of Roman Reigns and then we'll have a better structure for discussing "biggest" anything. Once AEW consistantly beats WWE's flagship show with Moxley on top / in highest-rated segments _then _ you'll have a statement worth claiming.


----------



## cease2exist (Apr 16, 2014)

Lheurch said:


> Well to be fair, Tony Khan's father is richer than Vince. Same goes for Dixie Carter's father. Not everyone is going to be willing to lose millions a year like Ted Turner was. I like CM Punk, but he would not be a true game changer like Hogan was for WCW. I have no doubt AEW would have loved to get Punk or Orton, but there is only so much money they are going to throw at someone, especially this early on.


The only name that stacks to Hogan in today's world would be like if AEW signed Cena or The Rock. Those are the two Hollywood wrestling icons of this generation regardless of how you feel about them. So I don't think AEW is capable of making _that_ kind of splash. I think WWE guys are afraid to jump ship and I don't really blame them. What if AEW isn't around 2 years from now? Is WWE going to welcome those guys back with open arms? That's their livelihood.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

cease2exist said:


> The only name that stacks to Hogan in today's world would be like if AEW signed Cena or The Rock. Those are the two Hollywood wrestling icons of this generation regardless of how you feel about them. So I don't think AEW is capable of making _that_ kind of splash. I think WWE guys are afraid to jump ship and I don't really blame them. What if AEW isn't around 2 years from now? Is WWE going to welcome those guys back with open arms? That's their livelihood.


Yeah, I have been watching original Nitros to guage the crowd vs AEW crowd at the beginning of both shows runs. WCW really had a loaded roster. For AEW to match, it would have had to have been:

John Cena - Hogan
CM Punk - Macho Man
Moxley - Sting
Jericho - Flair
Orton - Luger

So basically AEW has 40% the big time star power that WCW had and, thus, their ratings are about 40% of Nitros ratings. Their job is to create two more stars on that level, that is how ratings and buyrates will go up. Hopefully MJF is one. Would make life a shit ton easier for AEW.

Not to mention The Giant. AEW has nothing that compares to the visual of that mid 20s Paul Wight being booked to perfection in WCW from 94-96.

But AEW does have the midcard, Pac/Hangman/Cody/Omega/Sammy is every bit as good, probably better, than the Eddy/Benoit/WCW Jericho/Malenko/Mysterio Jr group.


----------



## cease2exist (Apr 16, 2014)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yeah, I have been watching original Nitros to guage the crowd vs AEW crowd at the beginning of both shows runs. WCW really had a loaded roster. For AEW to match, it would have had to have been:
> 
> John Cena - Hogan
> CM Punk - Macho Man
> ...


Sounds about right. I just don't see MJF as a big star. I like the guy, I think he's definitely over, but I just don't think he has the look or the personality to be taken super seriously. It's almost like he comes across as a little too lighthearted to be in the main event scene. I don't know how to explain it, I just think that's part of his actual personality, seems like a good guy.


----------



## the44boz (Apr 29, 2014)

Whysoserious? said:


> Yeah but Khan is richer than McMahon. It’s a weird situation...has you kinda worried about the future of the company


So was Ted Turner and looked how that turned out. Khan is like Turner. Came from a rich daddy and bought a wrestling company because he was a fan/mark but doesn't know anything about creating the actual product. Anyone who believes the AEW hype is a fool.


----------



## Darkest Lariat (Jun 12, 2013)

the44boz said:


> So was Ted Turner and looked how that turned out. Khan is like Turner. Came from a rich daddy and bought a wrestling company because he was a fan/mark but doesn't know anything about creating the actual product. Anyone who believes the AEW hype is a fool.


You clearly don't know your history. Turner had nothing to do with WCW after the Time Warner AOL merger. You could even say WCW went under because Turner was no longer involved thanks to corporate beurocracy.

Another thing is, Vince Jr built the WWE from scratch right? It didn't exist for 30+ years before he came along right?
:rock5


----------



## the44boz (Apr 29, 2014)

Darkest Lariat said:


> You clearly don't know your history. Turner had nothing to do with WCW after the Time Warner AOL merger. You could even say WCW went under because Turner was no longer involved thanks to corporate beurocracy.
> 
> Another thing is, Vince Jr built the WWE from scratch right? It didn't exist for 30+ years before he came along right?
> :rock5


His dad was a carney. Vince Sr would've never built it to what it has become and Vince Jr grew up in the business of wrestling. Khan and Turner didn't and WCW was going under with or without Turner. The NWO angle was the only time WCW had made a profit.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

cease2exist said:


> The only name that stacks to Hogan in today's world would be like if AEW signed Cena or The Rock. Those are the two Hollywood wrestling icons of this generation regardless of how you feel about them. So I don't think AEW is capable of making _that_ kind of splash. I think WWE guys are afraid to jump ship and I don't really blame them. What if AEW isn't around 2 years from now? Is WWE going to welcome those guys back with open arms? That's their livelihood.


Cena a Hollywood icon? He is about 18 levels lower than The Rock.


----------



## Darkest Lariat (Jun 12, 2013)

the44boz said:


> His dad was a carney. Vince Sr would've never built it to what it has become and Vince Jr grew up in the business of wrestling. Khan and Turner didn't and WCW was going under with or without Turner. The NWO angle was the only time WCW had made a profit.


You don't know that. Cable wasn't available to Sr. And Jr didn't grow up in the business. He didn't even meet his dad until he was already 12.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

KYRA BATARA said:


> CHAMPIONSHIPS said:
> 
> 
> > Which, as you should know by now is a reflection of WWEs brand draw, not the value of any individuals. In fact Rollins and Lesnar LOSE viewers. They're a drag on the brand. Moxley is a draw and on top of that, hung near the top of WWE for years anyway.
> ...


Excellent post. 



Lord Trigon said:


> How could a mass exodus even be possible with the current contract situations?
> 
> Also, most probably aren't willing to gamble their futures on a company that's been in existence for the blink of an eye. Maybe check back in when AEW has managed to stick around for more than a year.


It’s possible because many contracts have come up in the time that Tony Khan has been dipping his toes in the wrestling business. Orton, Nakamura, Styles, Gallows, Anderson, Usos and even Bryan and Lesnar. 



imthegame19 said:


> KYRA BATARA said:
> 
> 
> > Moxley is a big fish in a small pond. _Of course_ he's going to draw more interest than the likes of Joey Janela and Adam Page. Even if you were right about Lesnar and Rollins, they're _still_ getting watched by more people than Moxley in AEW.
> ...


Anyone left to their own devices would appear more natural and likeable without WWE. You can’t say that Moxley has proven himself to be better outside WWE than Rollins would be when Rollins hasn’t been in that spot. 



imthegame19 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> > Um, several million people watch Brock and Seth. A few hundred thousand watch Moxley.
> ...


Citation needed. Seth was signed because he’s great in the ring. His style is actually quite “stupid” compared to other WWE wrestlers. Plus, the best element to his poor promos have been what he brings in to them — a sense of how content should be structured. He would do fine outside WWE. 



CHAMPIONSHIPS said:


> KYRA BATARA said:
> 
> 
> > Moxley is a big fish in a small pond. _Of course_ he's going to draw more interest than the likes of Joey Janela and Adam Page. Even if you were right about Lesnar and Rollins, they're _still_ getting watched by more people than Moxley in AEW.
> ...


And you’re assuming that people are watching AEW and recognizing Moxley.


----------



## Stylebender (Oct 12, 2019)

KYRA BATARA said:


> You can logically conclude that Moxley is bigger than Drake and Bubby based on the fact that Moxley had a long tenure as an upper-midcarder in the WWE while the latter have barely been featured. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
> 
> 
> You're throwing around the claim that Moxley is the BIGGEST wrestler in the world based around him getting more viewer increase than anyone else in AEW. I'm saying that this metric means shit because even if true, AEW is still averaging under a million viewers every week. Seth and Brock were NEVER part of segments that dipped this low, so even if they _did_ lose viewers, there's still far more people that tune in to watch them than Moxley in AEW. This whole "well the brand draws" is just assumption, it's not sustainable evidence that'd hold any weight in court. Put Moxley's merch sales, Web traffic on average, social media following up against the likes of Roman Reigns and then we'll have a better structure for discussing "biggest" anything. Once AEW consistantly beats WWE's flagship show with Moxley on top / in highest-rated segments _then _ you'll have a statement worth claiming.



Well if the brand does not draw I assume you think Lacey Evans is a bigger draw than Chris Jericho? Lol. When I first got into wrestling, it was the wwe and for years I thought they were the only show on the planet, until I came across tna on eurosport in like 2006. I bet its the same for many fans. They watch wwe out of habit because they see them on the television. Does not mean that those in wwe are any big draws.


----------



## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

I’d compare the situation to 1997 WCW. For wrestlers whose contracts were close to expiring, how many were willing to take the risk and leave behind a lucrative contract offer for the uncertainty of WWE? None.

WWE had to find its footing before you began to see WCW stars jumping (Big Show in Jan 99, Jericho in the summer of 99).


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Seafort said:


> I’d compare the situation to 1997 WCW. For wrestlers whose contracts were close to expiring, how many were willing to take the risk and leave behind a lucrative contract offer for the uncertainty of WWE? None.
> 
> WWE had to find its footing before you began to see WCW stars jumping (Big Show in Jan 99, Jericho in the summer of 99).


The companies are in very similiar situations. WWE is basically WCW 1995 signing any and everyone they can. They landed everyone WWF had short of HBK/Taker during this 5 year period all the while WWF were (by no choice) being very frugal and developing all of the WCW midcarders that they acquired and made into stars (Austin, Taker, Foley, HHH) to carry them into their new era.

AEW is at that point. They need to get Killer Kross/Cage/Fatu/Hammerstone to go with their current midcard and keep developing. Or just offer John Cena $50 million to come lol.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

TKO Wrestling said:


> The companies are in very similiar situations. WWE is basically WCW 1995 signing any and everyone they can. They landed everyone WWF had short of HBK/Taker during this 5 year period all the while WWF were (by no choice) being very frugal and developing all of the WCW midcarders that they acquired and made into stars (Austin, Taker, Foley, HHH) to carry them into their new era.
> 
> AEW is at that point. They need to get Killer Kross/Cage/Fatu/Hammerstone to go with their current midcard and keep developing. Or just offer John Cena $50 million to come lol.


Fatu renewd is contract with MLW.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

The Wood said:


> And you’re assuming that people are watching AEW and recognizing Moxley.


Ratings breakdowns prove that. Moxley segment on Wednesday was highest on the show and his segments always gain viewers.


----------



## RavishingRickRules (Sep 22, 2016)

I also have to add that I wish a mod would change the title of this thread from "nobody" to "anybody." The double negative turns the entire thread ass backwards...


----------



## fulcizombie (Jul 17, 2011)

There are no big stars in WWE right now, aew already got the best Moxley and Jericho. Who the hell is the star that could be a draw , Orton, Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins ....these guys are the reason the wwe empire is struggling right now. The last big stars , that could make a difference were Cena and Batista and both are gone from wrestling. This isn’t the nineties, there is no Hogan, no Macho Man or any other of the legends to make a difference and even then wcw needed the NWO storyline to dominate for a while. I hope aew gets Cezaro to help him blossom and that’s it, the others can stay in wwe.


----------



## cease2exist (Apr 16, 2014)

Lheurch said:


> Cena a Hollywood icon? He is about 18 levels lower than The Rock.


I don't disagree. At the end of the day he's still a household name though.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

cease2exist said:


> I don't disagree. At the end of the day he's still a household name though.


I do not agree he is a household name. Most people outside of wrestling do not know him anymore than other D list actors. Everyone knows who Hogan and the Rock are. Most know Flair and Austin.


----------



## cease2exist (Apr 16, 2014)

Lheurch said:


> I do not agree he is a household name. Most people outside of wrestling do not know him anymore than other D list actors. Everyone knows who Hogan and the Rock are. Most know Flair and Austin.


I think most people know of John Cena. Not going to say he's as famous as Hogan/Rock, but I think he's very well known in mainstream media.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Dash and Dawson are still playing the tease game. Doing Buck's pose on international tour and tweeting out pics of it. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1194732373692362752
And then Dawson recently instagram'd - 



> Rarely do I ever post about my family, but I haven’t been home with my girls, consistently, for more than 2 days, in 3 months time.
> These are the times you realize, money really isn’t everything. Do what you love & what makes you happy. That’s the plan.
> Highway run....


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

cease2exist said:


> I think most people know of John Cena. Not going to say he's as famous as Hogan/Rock, but I think he's very well known in mainstream media.


I am open to evidence/polls that show that but I really do not see it. What would they know him from? I hate Cena as a character, but I am not a blind hater. I also admit while Austin is widely known, I would think the majority of humans do not know him either.


----------



## Rozzop (Aug 26, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> cease2exist said:
> 
> 
> > I think most people know of John Cena. Not going to say he's as famous as Hogan/Rock, but I think he's very well known in mainstream media.
> ...


The 'you cant see me" meme. I get that was popular with youngsters.

But yeah, I doubt very much he is a household name


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

NM


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I love The Revival as much as anyone, but are they really big names? They're a fantastic tag team from a critical perspective, but so were Furnas & LaFon. I have no doubt that AEW would "bring them to life" and they'd headline at least one PPV against The Bucks, but is it really the game-changer in the same way as Hogan jumping to WCW was? Come on now. 

And people definitely know who Steve Austin and John Cena are. They are transcended wrestling. Cena is a movie star and a meme now, whether people like it or not. In time, he'll probably carve out a career that completely supersedes what he ever did in wrestling. Austin won't achieve that, but he is a culture touchstone of the 90's. I have heard people reference these two guys outside a wrestling context in the day-to-day. Debate all you want, but their net worth as public figures says it all.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

I think that Randy Orton could have been a game changer but he opted to stay with WWE because they threw a ton of money at him.

Unfortunately most of the wrestlers who could be gamechangers are signed for at least the next couple of years with WWE.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

elidrakefan76 said:


> I think that Randy Orton could have been a game changer but he opted to stay with WWE because they threw a ton of money at him.
> 
> Unfortunately most of the wrestlers who could be gamechangers are signed for at least the next couple of years with WWE.


That could actually be a good thing. Assuming AEW stays alive and healthy for the next few years, they’ll be more attractive to veteran talent with a few years of history behind them than as a brand new start-up. Established stars will then have a much better idea of what the company is and possibly be more inclined to jump on board.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS (Dec 14, 2016)

Cena is a household name. The guy is on the cusp of Hollywood stardom. I don't know what country everyone is from but I live in Chicago and in the last 1 or 2 years I've never mentioned Cena and had someone not know what the fuck I was talking about


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

CHAMPIONSHIPS said:


> Cena is a household name. The guy is on the cusp of Hollywood stardom. I don't know what country everyone is from but I live in Chicago and in the last 1 or 2 years I've never mentioned Cena and had someone not know what the fuck I was talking about


Yeah, Cena is definitely a guy who could make a Hogan-like impact if he jumped to AEW and he hasn't wrestled in awhile likely because he seems to be focusing on Hollywood.

I heard that Rusev's contract is expiring early next year but with the way they are burying him with the Lana/Lashley storyline, I think that he could be ruined beyond repair and people won't be able to take him seriously if he shows up in AEW.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

imthegame19 said:


> Ratings breakdowns prove that. Moxley segment on Wednesday was highest on the show and his segments always gain viewers.


Man, imagine what they'd do if they go someone people recognized from the WWE that the company actually pushed.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

elidrakefan76 said:


> Yeah, Cena is definitely a guy who could make a Hogan-like impact if he jumped to AEW and he hasn't wrestled in awhile likely because he seems to be focusing on Hollywood.
> 
> I heard that Rusev's contract is expiring early next year but with the way they are burying him with the Lana/Lashley storyline, I think that he could be ruined beyond repair and people won't be able to take him seriously if he shows up in AEW.


Too many good big men in the Indys to waste a dime on Rusev.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

The Wood said:


> Man, imagine what they'd do if they go someone people recognized from the WWE that the company actually pushed.


Its more like wow this guy is way more bad ass then that goof Ambrose. Then say I gotta watch this kinda thing.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

imthegame19 said:


> Ratings breakdowns prove that. Moxley segment on Wednesday was highest on the show and his segments always gain viewers.





imthegame19 said:


> Its more like wow this guy is way more bad ass then that goof Ambrose. Then say I gotta watch this kinda thing.


I agree with that, but the same thing would happen to so many people in WWE.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

The Wood said:


> I agree with that, but the same thing would happen to so many people in WWE.



Maybe, maybe not. You can't assume that anyone could just show up in this day and cut great promos with interesting things to say. Some people have "IT" and some are being helped by WWE. Because of how they saw Ambrose/Moxley WWE system watered down what he could have been. Yes they're others like that in WWE. 


But there's also a lot of guys are helped out by WWE system. Who would struggle to be as big without it. Moxley so far the only one who believed in himself to know he was capable of doing more and it wasn't about taking biggest paycheck. Like we saw many other guys resign for. Some of the guys who decided to stay. Also might not believe in themselves excelling outside of WWE like Mox did.


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## Uchiha Ghost (Nov 16, 2019)

Because nobody that big is stupid enough to jump to All Geek Wrestling.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

imthegame19 said:


> Maybe, maybe not. You can't assume that anyone could just show up in this day and cut great promos with interesting things to say. Some people have "IT" and some are being helped by WWE. Because of how they saw Ambrose/Moxley WWE system watered down what he could have been. Yes they're others like that in WWE.
> 
> 
> But there's also a lot of guys are helped out by WWE system. Who would struggle to be as big without it. Moxley so far the only one who believed in himself to know he was capable of doing more and it wasn't about taking biggest paycheck. Like we saw many other guys resign for. Some of the guys who decided to stay. Also might not believe in themselves excelling outside of WWE like Mox did.


The audience jumps on anywhere there. Shawn Spears was given a chance.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

The Wood said:


> The audience jumps on anywhere there. Shawn Spears was given a chance.



Shawn Spears was on the lowest rated segment on the show this week at 861,000 viewers. So no.....


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## NXTSUPERFAN (Oct 19, 2018)

Maybe aew doesn’t want these names. I see it as a story or movie. You have a story you want to tell and you cast people to play those parts, just because an actor becomes available you don’t sign him/her to big dollars and change your plan to cater to them. Yes there are some guys you 100% would do anything to have because they have built a big enough name to attract eyes, but most are not those types of guys. It’s like in the middle of Goodfellas Tom hanks was like hey want to have a major part can I come be apart of your movie, that’s a big no thank you


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## JBLGOAT (Mar 24, 2014)

If it was me running a wrestling fed I would want every wrestler with some name value for at least a one off match to help the guys I want get over....

But there are many companies to work so not many guys may be keen on coming in just to job.


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## kingfrass44 (Sep 19, 2019)

cease2exist said:


> I think most people know of John Cena. Not going to say he's as famous as Hogan/Rock, but I think he's very well known in mainstream media.


I don't think think most people know of John Cena Out Kids 
And not well known in mainstream media 
he No more From Medium popularity


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## the44boz (Apr 29, 2014)

Darkest Lariat said:


> You don't know that. Cable wasn't available to Sr. And Jr didn't grow up in the business. He didn't even meet his dad until he was already 12.


He started working for his dad out of college. He already was involved in it. Turner and Khan have zero experience in wrestling.


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## fulcizombie (Jul 17, 2011)

Why are people seriously talking about Cena, a guy that will be a one match per year attraction for wwe from now on ? He will never be a hollywood star or anything because he isn’t a good actor, simple as that, but he will find a way to make some good money without punishing his body anymore inside a wrestling ring. As for the rest why would anyone want someone like Orton in Aew ? Because he is a.....draw, the guy that was sinking tv ratings every time he was champion and can’t speak 2 words on the mic .


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

I REALLY hope Matt Hardy, and the Hardy Boyz as a team are big names that don't want to come to AEW - this shit is so over the top terrible and Matt seems to think it's genius or something. 






Soo....so....bad.


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## looper007 (Dec 20, 2014)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I REALLY hope Matt Hardy, and the Hardy Boyz as a team are big names that don't want to come to AEW - this shit is so over the top terrible and Matt seems to think it's genius or something.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Both of the guys are broken down now, also Matt seems to be getting into been a agent backstage it seems and Jeff's problems, they need to stay clear off.


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## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

TKO Wrestling said:


> elidrakefan76 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, Cena is definitely a guy who could make a Hogan-like impact if he jumped to AEW and he hasn't wrestled in awhile likely because he seems to be focusing on Hollywood.
> ...


Could you name them cause I am drawing a blank?


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

^"Indies" probably means outside of WWE and NJPW.


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## Justin Edible (Nov 17, 2019)

Whysoserious? said:


> We heard how the dirt sheets reported how there would be a mass exodus from WWE. We thought Orton was one name heading to AEW, nope. We thought Punk would go to AEW, nope. It’s weird how no big names outside of Jericho and Mox want to jump ship.


Its a glorified indie fed, evidence of that was the non sanctioned match where they literally used CZW in reference to what would be used. Mox even went to the old CZW arena in the promotional material. Why would any star who was doing well in WWE care about that?


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Justin Edible said:


> Its a glorified indie fed, evidence of that was the non sanctioned match where they literally used CZW in reference to what would be used. Mox even went to the old CZW arena in the promotional material. Why would any star who was doing well in WWE care about that?


Not a rejoiner or alias.... nothing to see here


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## JTB33b (Jun 26, 2007)

Because the majority of them are more interested in money and security.


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## lolomanolo (Nov 27, 2006)

AEW shouldn't be paying anyone superstar money unless they can help get eyes on the product. Let WWE be petty and overpay for lower card talents just to keep them off the market.


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## Lorenzo Rossi (Nov 16, 2019)

the44boz said:


> His dad was a carney. Vince Sr would've never built it to what it has become and Vince Jr grew up in the business of wrestling. Khan and Turner didn't and WCW was going under with or without Turner. The NWO angle was the only time WCW had made a profit.


Nah let's get to the facts, Vince Senior was okay with Vince Junior in the wrestling business but he NEVER wanted His Son to run his company! He knew Junior was overly ambitious and didn't have any respect whatsoever for pro wrestling traditions or for the people who ran the business. He actually feared for his son's life. He believed if Vince Junior did gain real power and followed through on his ambitions of putting everybody else out of business that he would be KILLED. Senior did hire Junior to work for him as a minor promoter in one of Senior's minor territories, but he kept him on a leash 
and under Gorilla Monsoon's watchful eye


Vince Senior WANTED Gorilla Monsoon! to buy the WWF and take over running the operation. But Junior did some hustling and some underhanded shenanigans and wound up owning the WWF as Senior lay dying in the hospital (and couldn't prevent it), before Gorilla could get the money together.

Had Gorilla bought the WWF, instead of Vince Junior, the wrestling business would be a VERY different place. Gorilla was as old-school as Vince Senior, was taught the business side by Vince Senior, and had the same respect and honor for the business and it's traditions as Vince Senior. Gorilla wouldn't have driven any promotion out of business; he wouldn't have raided other promotions for their top stars. Don't make Vince out to be some HERO-Mastermind. His Father would be a shame to see what the WWF has become.Vince Senior,NEVER wanted HIS SON to run the company!. 



Vince Jr STOLE IT! Away from his Father on HIS DEATHBED!!!


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## Lorenzo Rossi (Nov 16, 2019)

the44boz said:


> His dad was a carney. Vince Sr would've never built it to what it has become and Vince Jr grew up in the business of wrestling. Khan and Turner didn't and WCW was going under with or without Turner. The NWO angle was the only time WCW had made a profit.



Vince Sr wanted Gorilla Monsoon to run his company not his Son, so the WWF/WWE would be under his leadership once Vince Sr passed away and Monsoon learned everything from Vince Sr as his right hand man. He knew the Business very well. As his Chosen successor. This was best, Vince SR,wanted to save Vince Jr Life 

Had Gorilla Monsoonbought the WWF, instead of Vince Junior, the wrestling business would be a VERY different place. Gorilla was as old-school as Vince Senior, was taught the business side by Vince Senior, and had the same respect and honor for the business and it's traditions as Vince Senior. Gorilla wouldn't have driven any promotion out of business; he wouldn't have raided other promotions for their top stars. There would not have been a Monday Night War because Vince wouldn't have been there to piss off and humiliate Eric Bischoff and motivate Bischoff into that obsession he developed to run Vince Junior out of business.

There would most likely still be a thriving pro wrestling business throughout North America with 3-4 major promotions in prime time television, dozens of large "indies" and countless "bingo hall" promotions throughout the continent employing thousands of wrestlers. And I believe we'd be seeing cross-promotional PPVs with Gorilla in charge of the WWE. Well, he would have started them, and hopefully, his successor would have continued it.


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## RKing85 (Mar 22, 2010)

said it before and will say it again, no sane person thought for a single second that Orton was coming over to AEW.


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## 341714 (Mar 17, 2015)

RKing85 said:


> said it before and will say it again, no sane person thought for a single second that Orton was coming over to AEW.


I hoped it tho. I hate Orton. Hes BORING. But no one does a fucking power slam like his ass. Its BEAUTIFUL. so I want to like him. I wanted to see what he could do. Oh well. I think hes just born and bred WWE scripted dud for life. Thats too bad.


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## Justin Edible (Nov 17, 2019)

Whysoserious? said:


> We heard how the dirt sheets reported how there would be a mass exodus from WWE. We thought Orton was one name heading to AEW, nope. We thought Punk would go to AEW, nope. It’s weird how no big names outside of Jericho and Mox want to jump ship.


Aew needs some real stars and fast. Jericho by himself wont cut it. Mox wasnt really big and is copying Steve Austin and CZW. Before long i see the ratings going even lower.


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## Psychosocial (Jul 13, 2018)

It's not that nobody wants to come, it's that it's difficult for many of them to do so because contracts are set up much differently today in wrestling than they were in the 90s. Gone are the days of Hall/Nash giving 90-day notices and being allowed to go with no fight to keep them, Rude showing up on Raw and Nitro the same night, world champions quitting and joining the rivals shortly after ala Hart/Benoit, and actual champions showing up in the other company with the belt ala Madusa. Things like that will just never happen again in wrestling and people need to accept that. Not to mention Vince and WWE have so much more financial muscle now and people care more about money than wrestling art or legacy so they'll usually take the easy option and stay put where they're getting big raises to not go to the rivals and with AEW still being just a start-up company at this point, there's no guarantee of them being a long term success either so that is a question mark for WWE guys too.

I don't see what the complaints are all about. It's not like AEW could have bought out a bunch of WWE contracts from the get go without risking massive loss straight away with this project. For the most part they picked up the wrestlers any start-up company in 2019 would get that were available. Jericho, Cody, Moxley, MJF, Page, Bucks, Omega, Pac, Lucha Bros, SCU, and a few others. Sure, they also picked up some indy crap because they're friends with some of the EVPs, but for the most part they got some of the best talent that they could have gotten that weren't exclusive to WWE, Impact, ROH, or NJPW at the time of signing. As they grow and prove their sustainability in the long run, you'll see more names come over to the promotion, but it'll take time. Rome wasn't built in a day after all.


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## Necrolust (Mar 4, 2015)

Who’s really a big deal today in wrestling except for Lesnar and Punk? Lesnar is lazy and don’t wanna work hard, Punk is well....Punk. 

Sure, had Roman made the jump it would’ve been something, Orton maybe, but he’s not interested anymore. Seth...they have plenty of people like him in wrestling today. Who else on the WWE roster are a big deal?

Moxley IS a big name and he is glowing with intensity, purpose and passion. A far cry from the sad, uninterested DA we saw the last few years in WWE.

There are possibilities to make money outside of WWE and a possibility of making a name for yourself and it will be known to more and more people. How long will the illustrious lure of WWE remain?

I believe a promotion like AEW is the first large crack in the WWE armor. Again, I yearn for the days where multiple promotions can prosper, I don’t want any company to put WWE out of business. I want WWE to step up their game, the boring, tedious and lazy booking drove me away years ago.


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