# Howard Stern Describes AEW As Backyard Wrestling League



## Wridacule (Aug 23, 2018)

Was this before or after he had a crack whore throw up on someone's ballsack? I know Howard is a household name but c'mon..! Plenty of low rent shit has gone on under his watch.

I honestly dont know where I stand on this argument. As a fan, I dont really care if one or one hundred people like what I like. I dont really think it's a big deal to the fans if more fans come to the party.

On the business side, it's hard for me to see why people say they aren't trying. They keep adding to the roster, there's fresh match ideas (most convoluted I can admit) they've made managers a thing again, and while there is a lot of comedy, the big fights feel like serious big fights.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Wridacule said:


> Was this before or after he had a crack whore throw up on someone's ballsack? I know Howard is a household name but c'mon..! Plenty of low rent shit has gone on under his watch.
> 
> I honestly dont know where I stand on this argument. As a fan, I dont really care if one or one hundred people like what I like. I dont really think it's a big deal to the fans if more fans come to the party.
> 
> On the business side, it's hard for me to see why people say they aren't trying. They keep adding to the roster, there's fresh match ideas (most convoluted I can admit) they've made managers a thing again, and while there is a lot of comedy, the big fights feel like serious big fights.


It's moreso about marketing and firing on the mainstream. Howard and his crew are pretty much up to date on everything because they have to be and they don't know what AEW is. It's a bad sign.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Only time will change perception


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## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

Oh shit this thread is about to get spicy. I look forward to Meltzer's 90 page essay about why Stern is wrong


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

AEW is barely a year old. And Pro-wrestling is niche as all hell. FWIW, I bet Stern couldn't name five active WWE wrestlers right now either. He's not going to know Drew McIntyre, Baron Corbin, AJ Styles, Adam Cole etc.


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## kingfrass44 (Sep 19, 2019)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> AEW is barely a year old. And Pro-wrestling is niche as all hell. FWIW, I bet Stern couldn't name five active WWE wrestlers right now either. He's not going to know Drew McIntyre, Baron Corbin, AJ Styles, Adam Cole etc.


You aew fanboy 
You cannot accept facts
You have no argument


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Lol this is funny. They just got Mike Tyson, one of the bigger names out there, and pre-COVID they were in talks with ASAP Rocky to have him appear. A rapper who was making headlines everywhere because of what happened in Sweden. I'm sure they know that they need more mainstream exposure but it comes in time. It's only been like 12 or 13 months and 4 of those months were shot to hell because the world went to sh*t. So 9 months of potency. How much can we realistically expect from a wrestling promotion in 9 months? Wrestling is also a niche and most people only see wrestling as WWE because they have had a 30+ year head start, and most have no idea what AEW, ROH, NJPW, Impact, old ECW or HOG is.

There isn't a single company pouring money into marketing right now. They were marketing A LOT more before March. They probably made marketing budget cuts as well when they saw they were making no profit from live gates.


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## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> AEW is barely a year old. And Pro-wrestling is niche as all hell. FWIW, I bet Stern couldn't name five active WWE wrestlers right now either. He's not going to know Drew McIntyre, Baron Corbin, AJ Styles, Adam Cole etc.


The fact of the matter is that to 90% of the world, wrestling= WWE. Wrestling isn't mainstream any more and it never will be. The only names in wrestling that people would know that still are involved today are a John Cena, Brock Lesnar and the Undertaker. I don't count Batista or The Rock because they're both retired now and we don't know if the Bellas will ever be back (Total Divas has made them a little bit mainstream). Apart from some of those names, not many people know about wrestling.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

If anything, this’ll give AEW more attention - we all know twitter fingers will be warming up with this one


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## Dice Morgan (Apr 26, 2017)

As a former Stern fan a few points about Howard , he has zero credibility as a fan of any sports. He hasn’t has any guests associated with wrestling on in 10 or more years. He only watches the Super Bowl for the commercials, any guests dealing with sports he is spoon feed questions by his staff.
Howard‘s goal since being on A.G.T has been the greatest interview of all time, since that time Howard’s subscribers has dropped a lot. So I’m sure this hurts a little but his opinion doesn’t mean a lot. While I would think the old school Stern Fans would be wrestling fans and most of them are in a demographic AEW needs 40 plus Howard wouldn‘t bring many people to AEW if was a fan , he never watched WWE when he interviewed wrestlers in the past. If he didn’t ban Hansey for life from the show I’m sure he’d call and defend AEW.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

It's really only bad because somebody confirmed it was backyard shit [emoji23]. But the general public not knowing shit about current wrestling isn't new. But that exchange sounds hilarious knowing how dead wrong they are lol.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

prosperwithdeen said:


> There isn't a single company pouring money into marketing right now.


What would you call Mike Tyson? He is someone they've dropped big money on for mainstream attention but he hasn't done anything for them except boost a YouTube video for them.

Lets face facts they need a Hogan, Austin, Rock, Brock or another guy on that level to publicly endorse them in the mainstream media.


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## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

This isn't surprising at all. The vast majority of people still do not know that AEW even exists. Whereas with the WWE, you'd have to live under a rock not to have heard of it. This is why they're using stars from outside the business to try to gain some exposure.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> What would you call Mike Tyson? He is someone they've dropped big money on for mainstream attention but he hasn't done anything for them except boost a YouTube video for them.
> 
> Lets face facts they need a Hogan, Austin, Rock, Brock or another guy on that level to publicly endorse them in the mainstream media.


How and where are they supposed to get that? Guys/girls like Cena, Batista, Rock, Austin, Hogan, Brock, Bella Twins, Becky Lynch etc. are not gonna do that to Vince. They're WWE lifers. 

Guys like Mike Tyson, ASAP Rocky, and whatever celebrity agrees to work with them in the future is all they got right now.


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Is howard even known these days? Im not firing back im just generically curious. Never heard anyone speak of him of years


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## Balor fan (May 9, 2017)

True. Its just a glorified bingo hall. Sad to see Moxley quit the big leagues for this


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## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

As a non-American who is Howard Stern really?

Enough said.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

prosperwithdeen said:


> How and where are they supposed to get that? Guys/girls like Cena, Batista, Rock, Austin, Hogan, Brock, Bella Twins, Becky Lynch etc. are not gonna do that to Vince. They're WWE lifers.
> 
> Guys like Mike Tyson, ASAP Rocky, and whatever celebrity agrees to work with them in the future is all they got right now.


There was this guy you might have heard of who had a little bit of hype for a little bit. His name was CM Punk and he was open to join AEW if the money was right.

As of right now? I'm not too sure who they can get to be honest. If the rumour of Heyman leaving WWE creative are true and it leads to his release they might be able to get Brock due to that connection with Heyman. AEW would have to spend out the ass to get both of them though I think but it'd give them a mainstream star and one of the best wrestling creative minds ever. Not bad pick ups at all.

ASAP Rocky and Mike Tyson aren't going to go on mainstream media shows and talk about making a couple appearances on a wrestling show.



shandcraig said:


> Is howard even known these days? Im not firing back im just generically curious. Never heard anyone speak of him of years


He went from millions when he was on regular radio to about a million on satellite radio at his peak. I'd say maybe low six figures listen to him now which is still pretty good. He's still one of the highest paid radio personalities in the world.


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

He's not wrong. They are essentially a glorified Indie promotion. Take Jericho away and they would be no better than the likes of MLW.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Balor fan said:


> True. Its just a glorified bingo hall. Sad to see Moxley quit the big leagues for this


out of interest, you agree with this sentiment @Chip Chipperson ?


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> out of interest, you agree with this sentiment @Chip Chipperson ?


No. AEW runs in arenas and isn't a bingo hall show.


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## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

the_flock said:


> He's not wrong. They are essentially a glorified Indie promotion. Take Jericho away and they would be no better than the likes of MLW.


With a TV and streaming deal and live audiences (Prior to Covid)? Receiving media attention in mainstream foreign media? I believe I read that they turned a profit too!

I'd say that's pretty good for a non-WWE wrestling company, let alone a new start up. By comparison, TNA were selling PPVs to 12 people at the equivalent time.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

It’s not far from the truth, really. This is what a lot of people have said about niching yourself from the start. The silliness, the overt desire to appeal to the fans that used to have the label “mutants,” the shallow sports entertainment presentation, etc. Kurt Angle used to be asked all the time when he was coming back to WWE when he was in TNA, because no one knew and fewer cared.

You can see the excuses pop up immediately. “It’s new.” Yeah, like “NEW!” isn’t used to actually promote things. All those new movies and new songs that struggle to find an audience because they are new. The Rock’s new show is obviously struggling on NBC because it is new. I don’t get this perspective and never will. Being new is to AEW’s advantage — this is likely the best it is going to get. Especially when you consider that the stars, or people who want to be stars, will want to be no longer be associated with “backyard wrestling” and go to a place that people with a cursory knowledge of wrestling aren’t going to look down on you for being associated with. As I’ve said — Jericho, JR, MJF, Sammy Guevara, Jungle Boy — they’re all leaving. What you’re going to be left with is TNA 2.0.

The other excuse I see is people knocking Stern himself. His opinion is actually probably a very good representation of what people approaching AEW from outside (you know, because it’s “new”) think and get exposed to. That is the reputation AEW has cultivated for themselves, and it is their fucking fault. You act bush league, you get perceived as bush league. If you are perceived as bush league, you are bush league. It doesn’t matter if Daddy springs for Mike Tyson to come in and do a random angle with the middle-aged vanity act he also sprang for. It’s like getting a celebrity to make an appearance at your bar mitzvah at this point.


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

The WOOD, how do they act bush league?


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Chip Chipperson said:


> No. AEW runs in arenas and isn't a bingo hall show.


fair play👌


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## Christopher Near (Jan 16, 2019)

after reading this it just makes this whole "Wednesday night war" look dumb nxt and aew fans fighting with each other while the mainstream couldn't care less 


As others have said wrestling is niche


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Klitschko said:


> The WOOD, how do they act bush league?


Comedy gimmicks which parody the genre of wrestling. Orange Cassidy is about as bush league as it gets. The only people who find a parody of wrestling funny are people obsessed with wrestling that have had their fandom challenged and people who hate wrestling. It’s riddled with 15-year-old boy syndrome. That’s when things get immature with their content in order to try and “shock” and “wow” people — “different for the sake of different.”

Matt Hardy is another example of this. The teleporting, the drones, the transformation and “hee-hee, aren’t I funny?” attitude. Jericho’s clearly on a vanity trip. Joey Janela embodies “bush league.” No psychology in most matches is very bush league.

At least half the show looks like you could get a trained stunt person, doubling for Michael Cera, to jump out there and just do pointless physical acts for no reason at all. That’s the epitome of bush league.

AEW has money. They can pay for big venues. They have got good will from the hardcore fan because they’re not WWE. But they cannot buy a reputation when they throw anything at the wall and don’t give two shits about the “professional” in “professional wrestling.” That’s how “backyard” slips in there.


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

AEW won't make a ratings dent until between 2027-30 and won't be something known nationally until around 2035-2040, if ever. There is a chance, as WWE continues to drop, that we will be looking at a landscape 10 years from now where no one is big.


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> What would you call Mike Tyson? He is someone they've dropped big money on for mainstream attention but he hasn't done anything for them except boost a YouTube video for them.
> 
> Lets face facts they need a Hogan, Austin, Rock, Brock or another guy on that level to publicly endorse them in the mainstream media.


Tyson was a TNT thing.


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Chip Chipperson said:


> There was this guy you might have heard of who had a little bit of hype for a little bit. His name was CM Punk and he was open to join AEW if the money was right.
> 
> As of right now? I'm not too sure who they can get to be honest. If the rumour of Heyman leaving WWE creative are true and it leads to his release they might be able to get Brock due to that connection with Heyman. AEW would have to spend out the ass to get both of them though I think but it'd give them a mainstream star and one of the best wrestling creative minds ever. Not bad pick ups at all.
> 
> ...


Good for him, Long steady career


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

But I do agree with Chip on this one, AEW should have thrown the bank account at Punk to be there at the 10/2 debut. And they should be throwing major money at Lesnar. Those types are fine, actually good to sign, because once Punk is back going again you could easily argue that Lesnar & Punk are the two biggest stars in the game today, alongside probably Reigns. So, I mean, it would have been worth it.

Now that Punk has been on Backstage, not sure how much it would mean. Would probably be close to Jericho level which is still amazing for AEW. But he could have been the true game changer for AEW. Even though I feel Lesnar is a bigger star than Punk (or anyone current, Reigns included), Punk returning last fall to AEW during the big premiere week, without watering himself down on Backstage, would have been epic. AEW is likely still in the 1-1/2 million fan area at this point, instead of the 700-900 (both are w/crowd estimates) area, and could be lining up to sign Lesnar to bump it up more.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

I initially was against Brock joining AEW, but now I’m on the fence.

On the one hand (and where my selfishness remains), I wouldn’t want him there no-selling everything and being a pain the ass when creative decides they’re putting someone over him.

But on the other, I believe landing Brock would not only get the word out about AEW and what it is, but it would absolutely come attached with a serious change in the culture of AEW. The man would bring about a sense of legitimacy to the matches. “You aren’t going to sell my shit, that’s cool, then I’m not selling yours either, let’s see who wins.”

Brock is “difficult”, because he takes himself seriously. Nothing more. Add in Paul Heyman’s creative juices, and I’d be down.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Dickhead1990 said:


> With a TV and streaming deal and live audiences (Prior to Covid)? Receiving media attention in mainstream foreign media? I believe I read that they turned a profit too!
> 
> I'd say that's pretty good for a non-WWE wrestling company, let alone a new start up. By comparison, TNA were selling PPVs to 12 people at the equivalent time.


Streaming service doesn't mean much. Go check out Fite TV and how many rinky dink independents they have on. 

In regards to AEW being a start up as has been pointed out it actually works in AEW's favour. It'd be different if they were a company with a whole heap of new faces and had no big stars but they've got Moxley who had a good WWE career, Jericho and Hardy who have large fan bases plus a ton of other recognisable talents. It's only tough for a start up if nobody knows who you are or what your product is about.



The Wood said:


> It’s not far from the truth, really. This is what a lot of people have said about niching yourself from the start. The silliness, the overt desire to appeal to the fans that used to have the label “mutants,” the shallow sports entertainment presentation, etc. Kurt Angle used to be asked all the time when he was coming back to WWE when he was in TNA, because no one knew and fewer cared.


Kevin Nash said the same thing. He'd get recognised at airports and be asked why he retired. He said he wrestles every Thursday night on Spike TV and the people knew nothing about it.



TKO Wrestling said:


> AEW won't make a ratings dent until between 2027-30 and won't be something known nationally until around 2035-2040, if ever. There is a chance, as WWE continues to drop, that we will be looking at a landscape 10 years from now where no one is big.


There is no evidence in any of this. They made a ratings dent night 1 just weren't able to retain them. If they were doing 1.5 million at this point I think we'd all agree that they'd be a resounding success.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

bdon said:


> I initially was against Brock joining AEW, but now I’m on the fence.
> 
> On the one hand (and where my selfishness remains), I wouldn’t want him there no-selling everything and being a pain the ass when creative decides they’re putting someone over him.
> 
> ...


I feel like Brock is the type of guy that would be okay with putting someone over if there was a reason, a follow up plan for him and a follow up plan for the person in question. 

Absolutely Brock brings legitimacy, makes AEW feel more major league and they suddenly have a star that is mainstream in the sporting world. Most sports shows would talk to Brock if they had the opportunity to. AEW doesn't have anyone else on that level.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Brock Lesnar would have made a good signing, but there is less chance they’d get him now, because he does take himself seriously.

The realistic signing should have been CM Punk. Who knows how different things would be when negotiating with a Randy Orton had Punk been aboard. They could have supplemented Punk with signings like Jacob Fatu, Hammerstone, The Briscoes, etc. A big star on top, serious acts underneath. I don’t think people appreciate how off-putting the more questionable roster choices lower have been. They’re peers, whether you like it or not, and when there are peers you just cannot be seen with, it gets embarrassing.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Brock leaving WWE for AEW could legitimately reach the mainstream, I’m talking ESPN highlights to show who Brock has signed with, but would you want AEW getting mainstream attention with risk of showing Marko Stunt trying to chokeslam Luchasaurus? Orange Cassidy not knowing how a ladder works? Matt Hardy teleporting?


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

bdon said:


> Brock leaving WWE for AEW could legitimately reach the mainstream, I’m talking ESPN highlights to show who Brock has signed with, but would you want AEW getting mainstream attention with risk of showing Marko Stunt trying to chokeslam Luchasaurus? Orange Cassidy not knowing how a ladder works? Matt Hardy teleporting?


Yeah and that's the issue as well. You need to be firing on all cylinders before you drop the money for a big name or you just get a temporary boost and then nothing happens. Same thing happened with Mike Tyson, they got a little boost from the mainstream media that reported it internationally but the following week we had a below average show that did nothing for nobody...


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah and that's the issue as well. You need to be firing on all cylinders before you drop the money for a big name or you just get a temporary boost and then nothing happens. Same thing happened with Mike Tyson, they got a little boost from the mainstream media that reported it internationally but the following week we had a below average show that did nothing for nobody...


I’m waiting for those in favor of lots of comedy to chime in.


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## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

I mean hes not wrong because its a minor league company with 2 big ex WWE names in Chris Jericho and Jon Moxley. Other then those 2 names what seperates AEW from ROH besides their tv deals? If you take away those 2 guys AEW is just ROH on steroids (ROH 2.0 with a billionaire owner).


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Dickhead1990 said:


> I'd say that's pretty good for a non-WWE wrestling company, let alone a new start up. By comparison, TNA were selling PPVs to 12 people at the equivalent time.


TNA literally started from scratch. 

AEW are backed by a billionaire owner with significant links in the media and sports industry who threw significant money at a lot of people.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

bdon said:


> Brock leaving WWE for AEW could legitimately reach the mainstream, I’m talking ESPN highlights to show who Brock has signed with, but would you want AEW getting mainstream attention with risk of showing Marko Stunt trying to chokeslam Luchasaurus? Orange Cassidy not knowing how a ladder works? Matt Hardy teleporting?


That’s a big risk, and it comes with the potential quips of “Brock leaves the bright lights to play wrestling in new vanity promotion.”


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Chip Chipperson said:


> There was this guy you might have heard of who had a little bit of hype for a little bit. His name was CM Punk and he was open to join AEW if the money was right.


Punk said on a podcast he wanted 10m to return to WWE on a 5 year deal with limited dates

so i’m assuming similar from AEW - and this was before their tv extension

now, Punk is a lot of things - but he’s not worth 10m


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Why not? He opens the gates for other big names to join, and when they are getting $75 million per year for Dynamite instead of $45 million, they pay for themselves. $50 million for Punk when you would be making $375 million off TV revenue over the same period. But did he even want $10 million per year, or was that total? If total, it’s even more ridiculous to not fork out for him.


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## deadcool (May 4, 2006)

Of course he's wrong. Howard has a history of talking out of his a** without fact checking.


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Punk said on a podcast he wanted 10m to return to WWE on a 5 year deal with limited dates
> 
> so i’m assuming similar from AEW - and this was before their tv extension
> 
> now, Punk is a lot of things - but he’s not worth 10m


They lowballed Punk Big time and he was offended with their negotiations to the point he refused to talk to them again. Rumour was he was offered around 2 million.

They also lowballed Orton and Edge. 

The only person they broke bank for was Jericho and that was only because he was on the verge of joining Impact.


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Ozell Gray said:


> I mean hes not wrong because its a minor league company with 2 big ex WWE names in Chris Jericho and Jon Moxley. Other then those 2 names what seperates AEW from ROH besides their tv deals? If you take away those 2 guys AEW is just ROH on steroids (ROH 2.0 with a billionaire owner).


I mean, is that bad? ROH was the best wrestling company in the United States for a good decade.


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## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

TKO Wrestling said:


> I mean, is that bad? ROH was the best wrestling company in the United States for a good decade.



Yeah it is bad because ROH is indie booking that'll never draw a big audience. AEW are doing the samething as ROH with their indie booking, and it backfired on ROH and now its barely alive so if you think AEW being ROH 2.0 is a good thing then prepare for it to be in the exact same predicament as ROH WHICH LIKE I said is barely alive.


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Punk said on a podcast he wanted 10m to return to WWE on a 5 year deal with limited dates
> 
> so i’m assuming similar from AEW - and this was before their tv extension
> 
> now, Punk is a lot of things - but he’s not worth 10m


He was before October, before the Backstage thing. He really was. Had AEW kept 1-1.2 million solid viewers weekly then that $45 million deal might have been $60 million or whatever, point is, it would have paid for itself. No one can deny that Punk on a crusade against WWE by leading the upstart AEW would have drawn buckets and buckets of money.


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Ozell Gray said:


> Yeah it is bad because ROH is indie booking that'll never draw a big audience. AEW are doing the sametging as ROH with their indie booking, and it backfired on ROH and now its barely alive so if you think AEW being ROH 2.0 is a good thing then prepare for it to be in the exact same predicament as ROH WHICH LIKE I said is barely alive.


I think my point is that they are ALL, AEW and WWE both, headed towards being ROH sized (ROHs prime years, not the current junk, ROH is now DEAD) by the end of this decade if they don't' get something mainstream going on and fast. WWE is living on borrowed time, AEW needs to create their own magical star to elevate their company, they are both in the same boat. They both need an absolute game changer to develop, the next Hogan or Austin.


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## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

TKO Wrestling said:


> I think my point is that they are ALL, AEW and WWE both, headed towards being ROH sized (ROHs prime years, not the current junk, ROH is now DEAD) by the end of this decade if they don't' get something mainstream going on and fast. WWE is living on borrowed time, AEW needs to create their own magical star to elevate their company, they are both in the same boat. They both need an absolute game changer to develop, the next Hogan or Austin.


Its the other around if you really look at it. AEW are the ones on barrowed time and WWE just needs to create that 1 big star that they haven't had in awhile. The last megastar they created was John Cena so if they can create another thats the boost that they're looking for. AEW has already shot themselves in the foot with their booking, not signing CM Punk, and them just signing ex WWE guys and the EVPs signing their friends. AEW's young guys will leave and I don't expect them to get pushed in AEW so that'll be the reason why they're jumping ship.


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Ozell Gray said:


> Its the other around if you really look at it. AEW are the ones on barrowed time and WWE just needs to create that 1 big star that they haven't had in awhile. The last megastar they created was John Cena so if they can create another thats the boost that they're looking for. AEW has already shot themselves in the foot with their booking, not signing CM Punk, and them just signing ex WWE guys and the EVPs signing their friends. AEW's young guys will leave and I don't expect them to get pushed in AEW so that'll be the reason why they're jumping ship.


Bullshit, WWE is falling faster than any company. It will be a wrestling revelation in 2025 when the deals are up. AEW is drawing 50+% of the ratinig Raw is for 1/6th the cost.


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## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Bullshit, WWE is falling faster than any company. It will be a wrestling revelation in 2025 when the deals are up. AEW is drawing 50+% of the ratinig Raw is for 1/6th the cost.


AEW has fallen faster than any other company in history. It took WWE years to run their viewers off but AEW has already ran 50% of its viewers off within 8 months. Thats not how it works and heres what WWE's shows draw and what AEW draws.

Raw 1.7-1.9 million viewers with 0.5-6 18-49 demo

Smackdown 1.9-2.04 million viewers with 0.6-0.7 18-49 demo 

Dynamite 700k viewers with 0.23 18-49 *demo. *

Thats 0.23 demo that Dynamite's averaging is a poor rating for a primetime show. It won't be a big revelation when the tv deals are up because AEW won't even be on TNT by then. They'll be on some third rate network by that time.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

I think this is what people in the biz refer to as a joke

Maybe Howard's working an angle


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Christopher Near said:


> after reading this it just makes this whole "Wednesday night war" look dumb nxt and aew fans fighting with each other while the mainstream couldn't care less
> 
> 
> As others have said wrestling is niche


The "war" is mostly nostalgia. And also, it's not really a war because AEW mostly wins.


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## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

AEW doesn't come close to cracking 100K domestically in the PPV market. AEW does well under 1 million viewers a week. AEW is smaller than 1999-2000 ECW was, it's not a big time fed.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

The XL 2 said:


> AEW doesn't come close to cracking 100K domestically in the PPV market. AEW does well under 1 million viewers a week. AEW is smaller than 1999-2000 ECW was, it's not a big time fed.


I feel like this is a subtle insinuation that AEW is about to get cancelled. Since that's what happened to ECW during this period. If so, I disagree.

ECW is extremely (pun intended?) influential in pro wrestling history. Certainly more than AEW. However, I always got the feeling that the company was hemorrhaging money and barely staying in business the whole time.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

TKO Wrestling said:


> He was before October, before the Backstage thing. He really was. Had AEW kept 1-1.2 million solid viewers weekly then that $45 million deal might have been $60 million or whatever, point is, it would have paid for itself. No one can deny that Punk on a crusade against WWE by leading the upstart AEW would have drawn buckets and buckets of money.


ok, before backstage he might - _*might*_ - have been worth 10m / just to see him walk out at All Out - but the risk would’ve been massive for a fledgeling business.

now, after backstage - he’d be lucky to get 3m for 5 yrs


----------



## Botchy SinCara (Apr 24, 2013)

And I should care about Howard's opinion on wrestling ...because ?


----------



## Y2K23 (Oct 10, 2019)

LOL. Doesnt change tha fact that WWE is pure shit and AEW is comfortably a better product while being successful in a no wrestling market. AEW is a success and haters just cant accept it


----------



## WhoBookedThisSh!t? (Apr 30, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Punk said on a podcast he wanted 10m to return to WWE on a 5 year deal with limited dates
> 
> so i’m assuming similar from AEW - and this was before their tv extension
> 
> now, Punk is a lot of things - but he’s not worth 10m


Seriously now Punk isn't a huge draw for Backstage. He pretty much killed his drawing power after sinking in UFC.


----------



## Christopher Near (Jan 16, 2019)

Geeee said:


> The "war" is mostly nostalgia. And also, it's not really a war because AEW mostly wins.


By war i guess I mean the back and forth between both sides go on alvarez twitter when he posts ratings its a war zone 

"Man it feels good to be elite" "another one for the good guys" "nxt is no more"


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

I mean. It's fucking Howard Stern, He's as Irrelevant as all hell so does it really matter what he says?


----------



## Rankles75 (May 29, 2011)

Wasn’t actually Stern who called it backyard wrestling, going by the OP, but his co-host. He’s a prick either way though...


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Ozell Gray said:


> Its the other around if you really look at it. AEW are the ones on barrowed time and WWE just needs to create that 1 big star that they haven't had in awhile. The last megastar they created was John Cena so if they can create another thats the boost that they're looking for. AEW has already shot themselves in the foot with their booking, not signing CM Punk, and them just signing ex WWE guys and the EVPs signing their friends. AEW's young guys will leave and I don't expect them to get pushed in AEW so that'll be the reason why they're jumping ship.


I agree with the overall assessment, but I think the reason talent jumps ship is simply because of platform. The guys in AEW just won’t be able to get as over as stars as WWE talent. One is watched by millions all over the world, and the other maybe by 1 million when you factor in all their avenues. If MJF wants to be noticed going through an airport,



Geeee said:


> I feel like this is a subtle insinuation that AEW is about to get cancelled. Since that's what happened to ECW during this period. If so, I disagree.
> 
> ECW is extremely (pun intended?) influential in pro wrestling history. Certainly more than AEW. However, I always got the feeling that the company was hemorrhaging money and barely staying in business the whole time.


No, that’s not what anyone said. The point made was that ECW had a much deeper penetration on its own. It did bigger on domestic PPV and in TV ratings. It was just more “popular.” And how big did you consider ECW? AEW is a fraction of the size.

And what it really comes down to is how many people are even _aware_. If a promotion wanted to make a star, then how many eyeballs you get is damn important to how many people can spread the word. Like it or not, if WWE suddenly got good and each person who watched told two lapsed fans, and if 5% of those lapsed fans stuck around, that’s about 900k new viewers in the US. That gets SmackDown back up to 2.9 million viewers. Then those people can tell people. They’ve got the platform for growth.

If each AEW viewer told two fans, and 5% of those fans stuck around? That’s closer to 90k fans. The WWE’s got about ten times the potential to grow its audience because AEW is just so small.



Botchy SinCara said:


> And I should care about Howard's opinion on wrestling ...because ?


Because he represents a cursory glance at AEW and its credibility in the public sphere. It’s not even his opinion. That’s a note je



Y2K23 said:


> LOL. Doesnt change tha fact that WWE is pure shit and AEW is comfortably a better product while being successful in a no wrestling market. AEW is a success and haters just cant accept it


First of all, the idea that AEW is a better product is absolutely subjective. The NXT Fight Pit was comfortably better than anything I’ve seen AEW put out since Cody vs. Dustin, which is still their high point. Daniel Bryan vs. Drew Gulak? Can you name a better wrestling match that has happened in AEW? 

WWE has got major problems, but the best matches are in the WWE. The better workers are there. If they let people start talking, they’d probably win on overall promos too.

And being successful is subjective too. We don’t even have proper confirmation they are profitable. Is that success? Is getting $45 million in TV rights considered successful? What is considered successful penetratoon



WhoBookedThisSh!t? said:


> Seriously now Punk isn't a huge draw for Backstage. He pretty much killed his drawing power after sinking in UFC.


WWE Backstage could feature Renee Young doing hardcore pornography and it would still not draw. It’s a talky show. The idea that star power was going to help it is weird.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> There was this guy you might have heard of who had a little bit of hype for a little bit. His name was CM Punk and he was open to join AEW if the money was right.
> 
> As of right now? I'm not too sure who they can get to be honest. If the rumour of Heyman leaving WWE creative are true and it leads to his release they might be able to get Brock due to that connection with Heyman. AEW would have to spend out the ass to get both of them though I think but it'd give them a mainstream star and one of the best wrestling creative minds ever. Not bad pick ups at all.
> 
> ASAP Rocky and Mike Tyson aren't going to go on mainstream media shows and talk about making a couple appearances on a wrestling show.


You don’t know all of the details about Punk. We don’t know how much he wanted. We don’t know his terms. He left the wrestling business in a really pissed off mood. I don’t know if he’s passionate enough to be a spokesperson for the company honestly.

He was more valuable than Brock at the time, so I would assume he wanted a Lesnar deal equaling $12 million a year, Or something close, which is absurd and probably more than what Cody and Kenny are making combined. Maybe he wanted a double deal bringing in AJ Lee for an additional amount. AJ Lee is a pretty big name too for the women. 

Punk could have been a draw probably bringing in an extra 80-100k people but if he was looking for Lesnar money then Tony would be crazy to think an extra 80-100k viewers is worth that. And me saying 100k additional viewers is generous, especially seeing as he failed in MMA unlike Brock. Maybe he’s just done with wrestling altogether.

Paul Heyman is still employed with WWE as an in ring personality with Lesnar. Brock is no longer a draw at this point. He would need to go back to UFC, win a couple fights, then he would be worth throwing the entire bank at. AEW’s best bet for mainstream attention would be Batista. He’s B List at this point. But that’s also a long shot. I don’t see him as loyal as Cena or The Rock are though.


----------



## Lockard The GOAT (May 30, 2007)

The Wood said:


> Comedy gimmicks which parody the genre of wrestling. Orange Cassidy is about as bush league as it gets. The only people who find a parody of wrestling funny are people obsessed with wrestling that have had their fandom challenged and people who hate wrestling. It’s riddled with 15-year-old boy syndrome. That’s when things get immature with their content in order to try and “shock” and “wow” people — “different for the sake of different.”
> 
> Matt Hardy is another example of this. The teleporting, the drones, the transformation and “hee-hee, aren’t I funny?” attitude. Jericho’s clearly on a vanity trip. Joey Janela embodies “bush league.” No psychology in most matches is very bush league.
> 
> ...


You must be really boring if you don't find Orange Cassidy entertaining. It's low brow without insulting your intelligence


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

It’s amazing to me that people don’t see the value in Punk for this company. It’s an overall credibility thing. It’s a buzz that can translate into something else thing. It’s a “we have someone that can talk to giant stars and get them to come into AEW” thing. Cain Velasquez said he talked to Punk to ask him WWE advice. Randy Orton might have been more intrigued to go to a promotion that had CM Punk on top talking a great game and treating things seriously.

AEW apologists will talk about how AEW just needs time when it comes to their lack of splash, but will refuse to see the ripple effect when it comes to signing someone who could make that splash. Getting Punk was not just about getting Punk. It was about getting the hottest free agent and making sure people perceived you as a legit alternative to the established empire. That was worth Brock Lesnar money. That’s the WHOLE POINT to doing this thing.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lockard The GOAT said:


> You must be really boring if you don't find Orange Cassidy entertaining. It's low brow without insulting your intelligence


It does insult your intelligence.


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Someone should show him the match at the football stadium. 

Surely seeing Matt Hardy change clothes in the middle of a match will win him over.


----------



## Lockard The GOAT (May 30, 2007)

The Wood said:


> It does insult your intelligence.


Perhaps you just take the show too serious.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

The Wood said:


> I agree with the overall assessment, but I think the reason talent jumps ship is simply because of platform. The guys in AEW just won’t be able to get as over as stars as WWE talent. One is watched by millions all over the world, and the other maybe by 1 million when you factor in all their avenues. If MJF wants to be noticed going through an airport,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think its a combination of both of they won't become big stars in AEW and their lack of push in AEW. So I agree with your assessment. I mean WrestleMania is the grandest stage of them all in the sport and most wrestlers dream is to wrestle at WrestleMania to have their WrestleMania moment, plus they can get paid more money in WWE while getting noticed in public because of the WWE platform.



The Wood said:


> It’s amazing to me that people don’t see the value in Punk for this company. It’s an overall credibility thing. It’s a buzz that can translate into something else thing. It’s a “we have someone that can talk to giant stars and get them to come into AEW” thing. Cain Velasquez said he talked to Punk to ask him WWE advice. Randy Orton might have been more intrigued to go to a promotion that had CM Punk on top talking a great game and treating things seriously.
> 
> AEW apologists will talk about how AEW just needs time when it comes to their lack of splash, but will refuse to see the ripple effect when it comes to signing someone who could make that splash. Getting Punk was not just about getting Punk. It was about getting the hottest free agent and making sure people perceived you as a legit alternative to the established empire. That was worth Brock Lesnar money. That’s the WHOLE POINT to doing this thing.


They could've had CM Punk but Tony Khan not knowing how to run a wrestling company messed it up when he gave Punk a contract offer via text messege instead of a in person offer. Thats why Punk didn't sign there because he said thats unproffesional. 

No big star or big free agent wants to go to AEW. Cain Velasquez signing with WWE, CMPunk signing with Fox to talk about WWE's crappy product, and Randy Orton re-signing with WWE. Randy Orton even bragged on twitter how gullible Tony Khan is and called him Jacksonville Daxie. Even AEW's biggest cheerleader, uncle Dave is reporting that Luke gallows and Karl Anderson are signing with Impact over AEW which is a bad look for AEW.

They're not getting Brock Lesnar because they have no where near the type of money to pay him. Hes currently making $10 million in WWE and would be looking for AEW to pay him that amount or higher. Brock Lesnar's contract alone would bankrupt that company.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

The Wood said:


> It’s amazing to me that people don’t see the value in Punk for this company. It’s an overall credibility thing. It’s a buzz that can translate into something else thing. It’s a “we have someone that can talk to giant stars and get them to come into AEW” thing. Cain Velasquez said he talked to Punk to ask him WWE advice. Randy Orton might have been more intrigued to go to a promotion that had CM Punk on top talking a great game and treating things seriously.
> 
> AEW apologists will talk about how AEW just needs time when it comes to their lack of splash, but will refuse to see the ripple effect when it comes to signing someone who could make that splash. Getting Punk was not just about getting Punk. It was about getting the hottest free agent and making sure people perceived you as a legit alternative to the established empire. That was worth Brock Lesnar money. That’s the WHOLE POINT to doing this thing.


CMPunk is reported to be widely unliked in the wrestling industry and I highly doubt he would go around trying to get other stars to sign. Especially not from WWE, a company he essentially hates for firing him on his wedding day. He spoke to Cain because they were in UFC together. Cain did nothing to help WWE and he was supposed to be a “big name”. Let’s assume that Punk talked to Gronkowski too. Did he help anything? Viewership actually decreased, then they fired them both during Black Wednesday.

Punk would have been very valuable from a credibility standpoint. I agree with you there. With Punk they’d be consistent at around 900k+ viewers probably with all of his old fans wanting to watch him. But other than that, how much influence could he realistically have in building the brand to be worth Lesnar money? (Assuming that is what he was asking for or something close to that) For $10-$12 million I would want _at least_ 2 million viewers weekly. Punk would in no way draw that much.

Signing Punk wasn’t going to start a “recruiting” phase where all the big stars quit WWE and join AEW because they’re excited. If a recruiting phase is to begin, Moxley is more likely to lead that charge as he isn’t constantly reported to have heat with talent. If a WWE star jumps ship, it won’t be because Punk is there but because they like the product and presentation and want something different from the way Vince runs things. Orton is a WWE lifer. So is AJ Styles. Punk is not worth Lesnar money. Lesnar is not even worth Lesnar money. The only ones worth Lesnar money are The Rock or John Cena.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Why do people keep acting like Punk is this huge star?


----------



## kyledriver (May 22, 2020)

His interview with goldust is fucking hilarious 

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Bullshit, WWE is falling faster than any company. It will be a wrestling revelation in 2025 when the deals are up. AEW is drawing 50+% of the ratinig Raw is for 1/6th the cost.


This is not the first time you have posted this incorrect statistic.

AEW is not costing 1/6th of Raw

Raw according to the sheets is $260 million per year, Raw is 3 hours weekly so $86.6 million per hour annually
AEW is $45 m per year according to same sheets, AEW is 2 hours so $22.5 million per hour

Right off the bat 22.5 is not 1/6 of 86.6, it's less than 1/4

AEW has 50% ad sharing. WWE programming does not. In 2014 ad revenue during Raw and SD was worth about $1 million per show for USA and NBC..that was before WWE started acquiring blue Chip companies to advertise during their programming Fox, WWE land Progressive as presenting sponsor of ‘Friday Night SmackDown’

So if we assume AEW and is averaging $500k per show in advertising revenue that's another $13 million per annum per hour bringing real total to $35.5 million per hour TNT are paying for AEW annually or probably on a par with what NBC were paying for Raw in 2015-19.

I didn't even mention TNT runs free advertising every second commercial break throughout the day for AEW. WWE does not get that on USA.


----------



## Even Flow (Jun 10, 2005)

kyledriver said:


> His interview with goldust is fucking hilarious
> 
> Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk


So is when Fred plays the drops of when Goldust visited when he did the interview in character.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

The Wood said:


> It does insult your intelligence.


It doesn't. I don't feel stupid watching orange Cassidy. Marko on the other hand. Since you mentioned drew gulak both he and Cassidy came up together as ants in chikara.

The only time Cassidy has been bad was the ladder match. But all you see is the "lazy" offense and the pockets right?

Maybe watch him when he drops the comedy and gets serious.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

The Wood, I don't have time to reply to everything right now. But I dont agree on the WWE having better matches then AEW. Just this year alone AEW gave us Young Bucks vs Hangman/Omega which is regarded as one of the best matches of all time by a lot of people, and yes i know in your opinion it was horrible probably. And then there was the Omega/Pac match too. On top of that multiple matches around the 4 star mark if you are into the ratings. I cant think of one really good match WWE has put on this year besides Daniel Bryan vs Gulak and Mcintyre/Rollins.


----------



## TheGravyTrain (Mar 16, 2015)

I like AEW, got lots of good things going for it, but it does miss that added zing...considering the money chucked at it, don't think it's living up to its potential. It just seems to be lacking a proper direction of where they want to go & just seems a lot of talented guys doing what they do with no real purpose. They need a creative figurehead to direct their ideas & not be scared to tell them no either.

But AEW is good, give me good intentions over 'Global Domination ENTERTAINMENT' anyday.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

Y2K23 said:


> LOL. Doesnt change tha fact that WWE is pure shit and AEW is comfortably a better product while being successful in a no wrestling market. AEW is a success and haters just cant accept it


Big projection and cope


----------



## dan the marino (Oct 22, 2006)

In some ways he's not wrong, in other ways I am wondering why someone who is famous mostly for once having a carnival set of misfit freaks on his show has a relevant opinion of wrestling in 2020. And nothing against Stern, I think he's hilarious.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

so did anybody actually watch the video? He asked what happened to Goldust and he was told he was in AEW now and he said what is that, and the guest(?) Said I think its somebody's backyard. Its not like he himself personally said it. On top of that he was saying that Goldusts character before was that he had tourettes and was mocking him.


----------



## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

Using Howard Stern to gauge things with AEW in 2020 is hilarious. Howard Stern is 66 years old. I don't care how on point he was with things in the past, he isn't the age that AEW targets.

Like someone said, AEW is only a year old. When for decades everyone has been programmed to only pay attention to WWE, it is going to take a long time for AEW to bust through that barrier of being significantly known by everyone.

...and yeah, it looks like Stern didn't actually say "Backyard wrestling". Someone else did.


----------



## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

Klitschko said:


> so did anybody actually watch the video? He asked what happened to Goldust and he was told he was in AEW now and he said what is that, and the guest(?) Said I think its somebody's backyard. Its not like he himself personally said it. On top of that he was saying that Goldusts character before was that he had tourettes and was mocking him.


lol that's some gaming press stuff, awful thread.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Did Golddust not correct them!?


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Brodus Clay said:


> lol that's some gaming press stuff, awful thread.


Yea he himself did not even say it. Thread should be closed honestly.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Punk said on a podcast he wanted 10m to return to WWE on a 5 year deal with limited dates
> 
> so i’m assuming similar from AEW - and this was before their tv extension
> 
> now, Punk is a lot of things - but he’s not worth 10m


10m surely would've been because of his beef with the company. AEW should've started negotiations at 5 million a year on a 3 year deal with limited dates (I'd go with 40 a year giving Punk 12 weeks a year off)

Lets hypothetically say Punk wants a little more and the deal is done for 6.5 million a year. Do you think he's not worth 19.5 million over 3 years?



The Wood said:


> Why not? He opens the gates for other big names to join


This, it's amazing how many people just don't get it. Rob Van Dam joined TNA because both Hulk Hogan and Jeff Hardy vouched for the company in 2010. Without those two he probably doesn't sign.



Botchy SinCara said:


> And I should care about Howard's opinion on wrestling ...because ?


He represents a mainstream media personalities view on AEW.



The Wood said:


> It’s amazing to me that people don’t see the value in Punk for this company. It’s an overall credibility thing. It’s a buzz that can translate into something else thing. It’s a “we have someone that can talk to giant stars and get them to come into AEW” thing. Cain Velasquez said he talked to Punk to ask him WWE advice. Randy Orton might have been more intrigued to go to a promotion that had CM Punk on top talking a great game and treating things seriously.


Not only is it credibility but it's a lot more money as well.

- Punk signing with AEW would've made big news and Punk would've been everywhere promoting the fact that he's in this new company and to tune in at the debut show because he'll be there.

- AEW suddenly has the hottest free agent in wrestling but a strong supporting cast of Cody, Jericho and Moxley. That means TNT can charge for more advertising.

- Merchandising goes through the roof because everyone wants to produce the CM Punk toy or a video game with CM Punk on the cover. You can also advertise this merchandise to a bigger audience which is more money.

- Credibility also goes up and AEW seems more major league.

I know you know this but many fans on here seem to be thinking strictly in terms of TV ratings which is very short sighted.



The Raw Smackdown said:


> Why do people keep acting like Punk is this huge star?


Because he is. 

Most of the segments on the WWE On Fox YouTube account have under 100,000 views. CM Punk every time they do a video with him in it gets over 500 thousand hits and he has a fair few where he's done over a million. Also:

Mike Tyson debuts in AEW: 3.7 million hits

CM Punk returns to WWE backstage: 5.5 million hits.

Punk being asked casually if he'd return to the ring received 2.6 million hits.

Just imagine the buyrate alone that AEW would've done if at Full Gear (Their first PPV after getting on TV) they had a number one contenders bout between CM Punk and Jon Moxley with Punk winning. Your next PPV after that Chris Jericho defends the AEW World Heavyweight Title against CM Punk with Punk winning. That's millions of dollars left on the table alone.



Klitschko said:


> Just this year alone AEW gave us Young Bucks vs Hangman/Omega which is regarded as one of the best matches of all time by a lot of people.


The first time I've heard someone say it's one of the best matches of all time is here today.


----------



## TerraRising (Aug 5, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> 10m surely would've been because of his beef with the company. AEW should've started negotiations at 5 million a year on a 3 year deal with limited dates (I'd go with 40 a year giving Punk 12 weeks a year off)
> 
> Lets hypothetically say Punk wants a little more and the deal is done for 6.5 million a year. Do you think he's not worth 19.5 million over 3 years?
> 
> ...


Youtube views are a red herring to what truly draws. Ultimately, it's the casuals that need to be fished.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

TerraRising said:


> Youtube views are a red herring to what truly draws. Ultimately, it's the casuals that need to be fished.


One of the biggest stars in wrestling in the past 10 years is going to draw you casuals as well though. I think many people (Not saying you, just in general) truly underestimate how powerful star power can be.


----------



## TerraRising (Aug 5, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> One of the biggest stars in wrestling in the past 10 years is going to draw you casuals as well though. I think many people (Not saying you, just in general) truly underestimate how powerful star power can be.


The guy wasn't even drawing for UFC, despite getting top billing over the likes of Overeem in 2018. Yes, the guy who got his ass kicked hard was pushed by Dana over the guy who made Lesnar his bitch.

Punk's no draw. Those millions of views may reflect on the total number of "fans" left in modern-day wrestling, but that's a paltry number compared to how much wrestling drew 20 years ago.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Also on the the topic of CM Punk, yea no way in hell is he worth 5 or 10 million dollars. Maybe 5 million for a 5 year contract but thats it in my opinion.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

AEW being a start up company, Punk was worth millions to them. AEW super fans have a habit of talking shit about people who don't sign with them so I'll take the insults with a grain of a salt, but there's absolutely no doubt he would have made this company far more popular, entertaining and just an overall better product. And I was never even a big CM Punk fan.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

TerraRising said:


> The guy wasn't even drawing for UFC, despite getting top billing over the likes of Overeem in 2018. Yes, the guy who got his ass kicked hard was pushed by Dana over the guy who made Lesnar his bitch.
> 
> Punk's no draw. Those millions of views may reflect on the total number of "fans" left in modern-day wrestling, but that's a paltry number compared to how much wrestling drew 20 years ago.


I can't talk UFC because I don't know their fans but I wouldn't be excited about some UFC guy coming over to wrestling either. Maybe they just didn't give a shit about Punk. Wrestling fans definitely do though.



Klitschko said:


> Also on the the topic of CM Punk, yea no way in hell is he worth 5 or 10 million dollars. Maybe 5 million for a 5 year contract but thats it in my opinion.


So Chris Jericho is worth more than CM Punk? He's on more than a million a year as is Moxley.


----------



## TerraRising (Aug 5, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I can't talk UFC because I don't know their fans but I wouldn't be excited about some UFC guy coming over to wrestling either. Maybe they just didn't give a shit about Punk. Wrestling fans definitely do though.


Plenty of UFC fans are wrestling fans. If Punk can't draw for legitimate combat, he can't draw for sports-entertainment.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

This thread has really turned to shit. It's not like CM Punk turned down AEW and then went on to wrestle somewhere else. CM Punk is retired from wrestling and also I'm 100% certain Howard Stern has no idea who CM Punk is, so it's really irrelevant.


----------



## CMPunkRock316 (Jan 17, 2016)

Stern is a never funny asshole with a micropenis. My best friend in HS and many years later loved him and I was more entertained by 2020 Raw or 2000 WCW than anything he ever put out.

Fuck him.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I can't talk UFC because I don't know their fans but I wouldn't be excited about some UFC guy coming over to wrestling either. Maybe they just didn't give a shit about Punk. Wrestling fans definitely do though.
> 
> 
> 
> So Chris Jericho is worth more than CM Punk? He's on more than a million a year as is Moxley.


Holy shit no joke? Well if they were willing to dish out that much on Moxley and Jericho then yea they could have offered CM Punk a good amount as well.


----------



## Lockard The GOAT (May 30, 2007)

Ozell Gray said:


> I think its a combination of both of they won't become big stars in AEW and their lack of push in AEW. So I agree with your assessment. I mean WrestleMania is the grandest stage of them all in the sport and most wrestlers dream is to wrestle at WrestleMania to have their WrestleMania moment, plus they can get paid more money in WWE while getting noticed in public because of the WWE platform.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats literally all they did to make Punk consider them "unprofessional? That's pretty silly.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Lockard The GOAT said:


> Thats literally all they did to make Punk consider them "unprofessional? That's pretty silly.


You don't do that for a minimum wage job let alone what is presumably a multi million dollar offer. I'm sure most jobs you've gone to they've let you know the pay rate during the interview or when you're signing the forms.

Even on the indies most of the ex WWE wrestlers are given an offer via the phone (Not text but an actual phone call). Only time you really make a big offer via message is if it's an international talent and you do so via E-Mail.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Chip Chipperson said:


> You don't do that for a minimum wage job let alone what is presumably a multi million dollar offer. I'm sure most jobs you've gone to they've let you know the pay rate during the interview or when you're signing the forms.
> 
> Even on the indies most of the ex WWE wrestlers are given an offer via the phone (Not text but an actual phone call). Only time you really make a big offer via message is if it's an international talent and you do so via E-Mail.


Yeah. 3 things you don't do over text.

1. Announce a death
2. Break up with your spouse 
3. Do work shit.

However punk is a hypocrite. He thinks its unprofessional to haggle or hire people yet works for a company that just recently fired people through text.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Firefromthegods said:


> Yeah. 3 things you don't do over text.
> 
> 1. Announce a death
> 2. Break up with your spouse
> ...


He works for FOX not WWE but I get your point.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

AEW is so cringe. Dustin is now begging Howard to appear at an AEW show on Twitter...









Dustin Rhodes Invites Howard Stern to AEW After On-Air Mention


Dustin Rhodes was briefly mentioned by Howard Stern during a recent edition of his show and now he's inviting "The King of All Media" to AEW.




www.prowrestlingsheet.com


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW is so cringe. Dustin is now begging Howard to appear at an AEW show on Twitter...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whys that cringe? Howard has a history with him and isn't Howards listenership in the millions? You say they need to be mainstream right?


----------



## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Firefromthegods said:


> Whys that cringe? Howard has a history with him and isn't Howards listenership in the millions? You say they need to be mainstream right?


I find it funny are half the posts in this thread are shitting on Howard Stern not being relevant, yet now they are going to flip flop on that view if Howard Stern accepts Goldust's offer to appear

Whatever it takes to beat Total Bellas I guess?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Firefromthegods said:


> Whys that cringe? Howard has a history with him and isn't Howards listenership in the millions? You say they need to be mainstream right?


1. Howard doesn't like wrestling and has said on the air before that he thinks it's gay.

2. Howard only has a history with Goldust because he formerly had a relationship with WWE when WWE was popular.

3. He only likes Goldust because Goldust turned up in character and was doing the tourettes thing that Howard and Artie Lange goofed on. He loved Iron Sheik as well when Sheik was all coked up and crazy.

4. Howard is a known germphobe and rarely travels outside of NYC. He certainly isn't travelling for an AEW show during COVID-19.

5. His viewership is probably in the hundred thousands now. He was dong 1 million 12 years ago when the show really was great and enjoying the creative freedom of satellite radio. Many people (Such as myself) have since left him because he's an aggressive left wing shill now.

---

They do need to be more mainstream but Howard would absolutely bury it if he turned up for it.

"You should've seen this guy, Marc? Mark...can someone tell me his name? Marko Stunt? Ah yes, Robin, Marko Stunt"

"Yes, what about him"

"Robin, let me tell you, I am not exaggerating here but this man? I think he was a man he has to be about 4'7 and 100 pounds soaking wet"

"He's a wrestler?"

"He's a wrestler, Robin! I was shocked. I remember watching wrestling when I was a kid and they were all hulking monsters that looked like they had bodies. Who watches this shit and enjoys it?"


Goofing would ensue.


----------



## TerraRising (Aug 5, 2015)

Howard Stern has always been a left-wing shill @Chip Chipperson. You just never noticed until you went based and woke or whatever the fuck is used to refer to the political horseshoe theory.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Chip Chipperson said:


> 1. Howard doesn't like wrestling and has said on the air before that he thinks it's gay.
> 
> 2. Howard only has a history with Goldust because he formerly had a relationship with WWE when WWE was popular.
> 
> ...


That's not fair. Marko deserves abuse! And like easy E said controversy creates cash. Even if its bad publicity. 

@NathanMayberry did you just imply that I watch total Bellas?


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Bullshit, WWE is falling faster than any company. It will be a wrestling revelation in 2025 when the deals are up. AEW is drawing 50+% of the ratinig Raw is for 1/6th the cost.


It really isn't. WWE will still be around, probably not owned by Vince, possibly on some Disney network. 

As for AEW if they continue the way they are, there's no chance they will have as good a TV deal as they've got now in a couple of years time, they're essentially breaking even now, with a worse deal they will be losing money. If they are even still around by then. Jericho will be gone by then, as will Jr and Moxley. AEW will either be on a small time network or won't exist at all. I still think this is nothing more than Tony trying to make a quick buck.


----------



## Prince Devitt (Mar 21, 2020)

Who cares what Stern thinks, O and A were always better........ linger longer


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

The Wood said:


> It’s amazing to me that people don’t see the value in Punk for this company.


I think the bigger stars now will be looking at the AEW product and thinking no thanks. In the last 6 months, they've essentially killed all chance of getting a big star with their terrible booking. I mean they've even made Tyson look like shit and the so called best wrestler in the world Omega looks like a midcard wrestler. 

Could you imagine if they brought in Punk in the beginning. He has his 1 match feud with Cody, his 2 week feud with Jericho, gets put through the entrance ramp by Moxley, goes the distance with loads of midcard guys, before he drops a pipe bomb on stage ridiculing the company.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Klitschko said:


> Also on the the topic of CM Punk, yea no way in hell is he worth 5 or 10 million dollars. Maybe 5 million for a 5 year contract but thats it in my opinion.


You think Punk should be on Adam Page money?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Prince Devitt said:


> Who cares what Stern thinks, O and A were always better........ linger longer


Tss. You have good taste in radio or sumptin'


----------



## Botchy SinCara (Apr 24, 2013)

Resorting to Howard Stern of all people as a way to measure something being well known. ..he was trash entertainment and the only reason he was known was for that ..guy would have someone jack off on his show ..his opinion means squat


----------



## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Botchy SinCara said:


> Resorting to Howard Stern of all people as a way to measure something being well known. ..he was trash entertainment and the only reason he was known was for that ..guy would have someone jack off on his show ..his opinion means squat


Do you know anything about the 14th most watch show on Cable from a random night?

What has AEW done to cross over into mainstream? In fact, what has AEW done to appeal to anyone that isn't already a hardcore wrestling fan that would have bought All In?

Its not Howard Stern's fault for not knowing what AEW is. Maybe AEW should have spent less of its ad budget catering to smarks by having literal quotes of Meltzer and Alvarez. AEW also didn't do themselves any good by having a deathmatch on a PPV and getting fined for it, that's Backyard Wrestling shit.


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Bye for now.

big nosed JACKASS


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

the_flock said:


> I think the bigger stars now will be looking at the AEW product and thinking no thanks. In the last 6 months, they've essentially killed all chance of getting a big star with their terrible booking. I mean they've even made Tyson look like shit and the so called best wrestler in the world Omega looks like a midcard wrestler.
> 
> *Could you imagine if they brought in Punk in the beginning. He has his 1 match feud with Cody, his 2 week feud with Jericho, gets put through the entrance ramp by Moxley, goes the distance with loads of midcard guys, before he drops a pipe bomb on stage ridiculing the company.*


That they have done this with the hottest free agent since, Sting?, is an absolute travesty.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Lockard The GOAT said:


> Thats literally all they did to make Punk consider them "unprofessional? That's pretty silly.


Yeah he said it in an interview. He told Tony Khan to meet him in Chicago to negotiate a deal but Tony Khan gave him a offer via text messege which upset Punk so he walked away and cut all ties with the company. Its not really silly though. No business offers someone a contract by text messege they offer you a deal after the interview in person which is what Punk wanted.



the_flock said:


> I think the bigger stars now will be looking at the AEW product and thinking no thanks. In the last 6 months, they've essentially killed all chance of getting a big star with their terrible booking. I mean they've even made Tyson look like shit and the so called best wrestler in the world Omega looks like a midcard wrestler.
> 
> Could you imagine if they brought in Punk in the beginning. He has his 1 match feud with Cody, his 2 week feud with Jericho, gets put through the entrance ramp by Moxley, goes the distance with loads of midcard guys, before he drops a pipe bomb on stage ridiculing the company.


I said it yesterday that they've shot themselves in the foot with their booking and no big star wants to go there. Wardlow lost to Cody in first big match, Lance Archer lost to Cody in his first big match, and Brian Cage will lose to Moxley most likely in his first big match. 

Their booking is all over the place from Jericho talking to a drone and now hes hitting Orange Cassidy with oranges which is Vince Russo booking to its core.



the_flock said:


> It really isn't. WWE will still be around, probably not owned by Vince, possibly on some Disney network.
> 
> As for AEW if they continue the way they are, there's no chance they will have as good a TV deal as they've got now in a couple of years time, they're essentially breaking even now, with a worse deal they will be losing money. If they are even still around by then. Jericho will be gone by then, as will Jr and Moxley. AEW will either be on a small time network or won't exist at all. I still think this is nothing more than Tony trying to make a quick buck.


They're not even breaking even. Tony Khan has said they're losing millions and no chance they're still on TNT in a couple of years. They're spending millions on these guys only to get 700k viewers with 0.23 demo which is horrible for a primetime show. TNT will soon realize they've made a grave mistake with AEW and cancel Dynamite and they'll be on a 3rd rste network and will be in ROH's position which is bary alive. 

Chris Jericho, Jon Moxley, Jim Ross, and their young talent will leave and AEW will be in a worse situation then then it is right now. 

WWE will be alright because they're big enough to where to can have a down turn and turn it on in flip of a switch and the next thing you know their ratings and viewership is up. AEW doesn't have that luxury and never will.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Botchy SinCara said:


> Resorting to Howard Stern of all people as a way to measure something being well known. ..he was trash entertainment and the only reason he was known was for that ..guy would have someone jack off on his show ..his opinion means squat


I get that he isn't everyone's cup of tea but we're talking about a guy that had 20 million people listening to him on the radio (His highest rating ever). That's more than many medium sized countries. He's also an innovator which is what AEW is trying to do.




La Parka said:


> Bye for now.
> 
> big nosed JACKASS


Damn I miss that little guy. He'd have liked AEW.


----------



## Lockard The GOAT (May 30, 2007)

Chip Chipperson said:


> You don't do that for a minimum wage job let alone what is presumably a multi million dollar offer. I'm sure most jobs you've gone to they've let you know the pay rate during the interview or when you're signing the forms.
> 
> Even on the indies most of the ex WWE wrestlers are given an offer via the phone (Not text but an actual phone call). Only time you really make a big offer via message is if it's an international talent and you do so via E-Mail.


So... what if Punk didn't like the offer? Then what? At least if it's by text he can just text back saying that it doesn't interest him, whereas flying all the way down to meet them means he would have wasted a trip. I get preferring a phone call over a text, but it still seems like a small thing to gripe about.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Lockard The GOAT said:


> So... what if Punk didn't like the offer? Then what? At least if it's by text he can just text back saying that it doesn't interest him, whereas flying all the way down to meet them means he would have wasted a trip. I get preferring a phone call over a text, but it still seems like a small thing to gripe about.


Well, look at how they do it for football teams or basketball teams. What they usually do is ask if a player is interested via the agent and they'll get a response, if the answer is positive they'll generally arrange for the player to come to the office, visit the stadium, check out the training facilities, meet the people involved with the team, maybe get a big name current player to turn up that day to shake hands and help sell the guy on it. It's a process but apparently it works because teams have been doing this for decades now.

If I was Tony Khan I'd have flown Punk from Chicago to Florida first class, booked him in for an overnight stay at the nicest hotel in town, fly Jericho in to meet with him at the offices along with Cody, tell him my vision in person, have Cody and Jericho talk about how much fun it'll be to have him on board, show him our offices, show him Jacksonville Stadium etc. That night you do dinner with the guy in a classy restaurant preferably in a V.I.P section and you talk about your vision, what he'd like from it (Don't discuss money) and how Punk plays into AEW and how you hope he'll sign. He flies home the following day, I table a reasonable offer to his agent and hopefully we've impressed the guy enough that he negotiates with us. All this to impress Punk probably costs under 5000 dollars which seems like a lot but the Khan family is worth billions.

What real life Tony Khan did was get Punk's number, put it in a group text and send him a text with a dollar amount offer. No trip, no discussion, nobody to sell the guy on joining AEW, no dinner, no room. I'm sure Punk wouldn't have expected everything I outlined above but sending a text message with an offer makes him look like an indy guy and it's super unprofessional.

Here is what Punk had to say about it:


*Punk:* The last thing I got — I got a text from Cody [Rhodes]. And again, I almost don’t even know how to reply to them sometimes, because if I reply, they do interviews and are like, “Oh yeah, I just talked to Punk.” I’m kind of damned if I do, damned if I don’t. I always think if somebody wants to do business with me, they can come talk to me. Texting offers isn’t really a way to do good business, at least.

*ESPN:* Was it an offer via text?

*Punk: *It was texted through three people and an offer came in through text. This is like a month ago, maybe.

---

He thinks it's bad business to make an offer via text.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

They are allowing other c


the_flock said:


> It really isn't. WWE will still be around, probably not owned by Vince, possibly on some Disney network.
> 
> As for AEW if they continue the way they are, there's no chance they will have as good a TV deal as they've got now in a couple of years time, they're essentially breaking even now, with a worse deal they will be losing money. If they are even still around by then. Jericho will be gone by then, as will Jr and Moxley. AEW will either be on a small time network or won't exist at all. I still think this is nothing more than Tony trying to make a quick buck.


Keep dreaming WWE stan. You can't handle the nosedive your company is in and deflect it towards AEW. 
Pathetic


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Did Cody really want CM Punk joining AEW? Come on people. Think.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

bdon said:


> Did Cody really want CM Punk joining AEW? Come on people. Think.


Which is crazy because a Punk/Cody feud would be electric.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lockard The GOAT said:


> Perhaps you just take the show too serious.


Here we go. The “eat shit and like it” argument. How about you stop trying to make me eat shit? This is why wrestling is in hole. The fans with self-respect just stop watching. What you’re left with are masochists who don’t mind eating shit. 



prosperwithdeen said:


> CMPunk is reported to be widely unliked in the wrestling industry and I highly doubt he would go around trying to get other stars to sign. Especially not from WWE, a company he essentially hates for firing him on his wedding day. He spoke to Cain because they were in UFC together. Cain did nothing to help WWE and he was supposed to be a “big name”. Let’s assume that Punk talked to Gronkowski too. Did he help anything? Viewership actually decreased, then they fired them both during Black Wednesday.
> 
> Punk would have been very valuable from a credibility standpoint. I agree with you there. With Punk they’d be consistent at around 900k+ viewers probably with all of his old fans wanting to watch him. But other than that, how much influence could he realistically have in building the brand to be worth Lesnar money? (Assuming that is what he was asking for or something close to that) For $10-$12 million I would want _at least_ 2 million viewers weekly. Punk would in no way draw that much.
> 
> Signing Punk wasn’t going to start a “recruiting” phase where all the big stars quit WWE and join AEW because they’re excited. If a recruiting phase is to begin, Moxley is more likely to lead that charge as he isn’t constantly reported to have heat with talent. If a WWE star jumps ship, it won’t be because Punk is there but because they like the product and presentation and want something different from the way Vince runs things. Orton is a WWE lifer. So is AJ Styles. Punk is not worth Lesnar money. Lesnar is not even worth Lesnar money. The only ones worth Lesnar money are The Rock or John Cena.


Citation needed for all of that. Why the fuck are you bringing up Gronk? Did you just make up your own narrative and respond to it like it was true? No one mentioned Gronk. I mentioned Cain Velasquez, who is someone else entirely — a big name from the UFC who was turning heads before WWE snapped him up and burnt him on a match. If AEW signed him, fanboys would be creaming pants.



validreasoning said:


> This is not the first time you have posted this incorrect statistic.
> 
> AEW is not costing 1/6th of Raw
> 
> ...


Fucking snap.



Firefromthegods said:


> It doesn't. I don't feel stupid watching orange Cassidy. Marko on the other hand. Since you mentioned drew gulak both he and Cassidy came up together as ants in chikara.
> 
> The only time Cassidy has been bad was the ladder match. But all you see is the "lazy" offense and the pockets right?
> 
> Maybe watch him when he drops the comedy and gets serious.


Yes it does. I don’t want to watch a comedy wrestler get serious. The onus is not on me to head canon someone into being good. This is another reason wrestling is in a hole. The fans have to squint. Maybe don’t be shit outright? Don’t understand your point about Gulak. Are you suggesting that because theu



Klitschko said:


> The Wood, I don't have time to reply to everything right now. But I dont agree on the WWE having better matches then AEW. Just this year alone AEW gave us Young Bucks vs Hangman/Omega which is regarded as one of the best matches of all time by a lot of people, and yes i know in your opinion it was horrible probably. And then there was the Omega/Pac match too. On top of that multiple matches around the 4 star mark if you are into the ratings. I cant think of one really good match WWE has put on this year besides Daniel Bryan vs Gulak and Mcintyre/Rollins.


You’re trying to make a reasonable point, and I appreciate that, but no, those matches aren’t great to me. Omega is overrated as hell and The Bucks are the drizzling shits. The 2020 Royal Rumble was better booked than anything AEW has ever done. And that’s not a glowing endorsement of WWE overall. People will try to spin it that way, but that booking was simply excellent. No two ways about it.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Punk would have been terrible for the company. Even when motivated to wrestle, which he obviously isn't anymore, he was a hyper-critical malcontent who thinks his shit doesn't stink. Imagine that cancer in a new lockerroom without any established norms, identity.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

They could use some criticism and minds that don't want to be associated with stink, honestly.


----------



## The_It_Factor (Aug 14, 2012)

Wait, people are actually resorting to ad hominem attacks against Stern for not knowing about a wrestling show when he doesn’t watch wrestling? LOLOLOL, wrestling fans are such weirdos


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

They absolutely needed CM Punk and thats why they tried to sign him because he was the biggest free agent out there on the market. AEW themselves knew it and tried to sign him but Tony Khan being a stooge screwed it up and he chose to sign with Fox to talk about WWE. Anyone saying they don't need him doesn't know what they're talking about. If signing Jericho and Moxley gave them credibility then signing the biggest free agent in CM Punk would've given them more credibility. CM Punk help set the trend where no big name wants to go there.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

When Punk ended up back in bed with WWE instead of going to the "hot" alternative, it cooled them way more than people realise.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

The Wood said:


> When Punk ended up back in bed with WWE instead of going to the "hot" alternative, it cooled them way more than people realise.


Yep that hurt them more than helped but AEW fans don't want to admit it because by admitting it they're admitting that AEW failed and they hate the thought of that.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Anyone who doesn't sign with AEW isn't worth the money, is washed up, doesn't care about wrestling, etc. Whatever excuse. Anyone that signs with AEW is a future prospect and someone that is going to be a star one day. It's just the way it goes with bias.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Anyone who doesn't sign with AEW isn't worth the money, is washed up, doesn't care about wrestling, etc. Whatever excuse. Anyone that signs with AEW is a future prospect and someone that is going to be a star one day. It's just the way it goes with bias.


Yep they were excited when they thought Randy Orton was going to sign but when he re-signed with WWE it was all of a sudden oh hes boring and they don't need him, CM Punk decides to work for Fox AEW fans said oh I never liked him from the get go, and Cain Velasquez signing with WWE it was oh they should focus on building their own stars instead of signing big names. The goalpost moves when they don't get what they want.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Anyone who doesn't sign with AEW isn't worth the money, is washed up, doesn't care about wrestling, etc. Whatever excuse. Anyone that signs with AEW is a future prospect and someone that is going to be a star one day. It's just the way it goes with bias.


I dont think thats true. Yea there is some AEW fans here that are like that but there is also some that can see their mistakes as a well. I'm a big AEW fan for example but yea i hate them signing trash like Matt Hardy. Not all AEW fans are the same. Just like how not everyone that critics AEW is a hater that hates every single aspect of the show.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Klitschko said:


> I dont think thats true. Yea there is some AEW fans here that are like that but there is also some that can see their mistakes as a well. I'm a big AEW fan for example but yea i hate them signing trash like Matt Hardy. Not all AEW fans are the same. Just like how not everyone that critics AEW is a hater that hates every single aspect of the show.


This is fair. I'm sorry for my generalisation.


----------



## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

Considering that Dustin Rhodes has invited Stern to an AEW show after the backyard fed comment, he’ll learn all about AEW now.

I got downvoted relentlessly on a different message board and ended up having to delete my post because of it for suggesting the same thing, but the saying of "there’s no such thing as bad publicity" applies here. Yes, it involved ridicule, but its still publicity.

Not that I care at all about Stern. Not my taste whatsoever.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Botchy SinCara said:


> Resorting to Howard Stern of all people as a way to measure something being well known. ..he was trash entertainment and the only reason he was known was for that ..guy would have someone jack off on his show ..his opinion means squat


Funnily enough he had a woman squat on a bass amp


The Wood said:


> Here we go. The “eat shit and like it” argument. How about you stop trying to make me eat shit? This is why wrestling is in hole. The fans with self-respect just stop watching. What you’re left with are masochists who don’t mind eating shit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Drew gulak was once a comedy character. But it also allowed him to show off his skills. And now people recognize him as one of the top technical wrestlers in the world.

You discrediting orange Cassidy cause he does slow kicks is silly. He has absolutely shown he can go when he gets serious or did you skip the pac match?

My point is don't judge a book by its cover. You're basically implying that 9C is incapable of evolving his gimmick into something like Matt riddle or rob van dams laid back persona.

I hated it at first when I was watching beyond but I absolutely loved it when his matches started comedic and then got serious. So if I can understand how good he is why are you being stubborn?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Firefromthegods said:


> Funnily enough he had a woman squat on a bass amp
> 
> 
> Drew gulak was once a comedy character. But it also allowed him to show off his skills. And now people recognize him as one of the top technical wrestlers in the world.
> ...


I hear what you’re trying to say, but there shouldn’t be a gimmick to evolve. It’s a trash gimmick. When you go into a fight, you don’t no-sell it. Not in the way OC does. Psychology is part of the work, and there is ZERO psychology in what OC does. There is no grey area — he makes no sense and therefore everything else is irrelevant. The onus isn’t on people to wade through the bullshit to find the kernel. And from what I’ve seen of OC when he “goes,” he’s just another indyriffic spot, spot, spot guy. That don’t impress me much, Shania.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

The Wood said:


> I hear what you’re trying to say, but there shouldn’t be a gimmick to evolve. It’s a trash gimmick. When you go into a fight, you don’t no-sell it. Not in the way OC does. Psychology is part of the work, and there is ZERO psychology in what OC does. There is no grey area — he makes no sense and therefore everything else is irrelevant. The onus isn’t on people to wade through the bullshit to find the kernel. And from what I’ve seen of OC when he “goes,” he’s just another indyriffic spot, spot, spot guy. That don’t impress me much, Shania.


His not as egregious as the bucks. He just needs someone of better skill to slow him down. It's not just ability though. He gets the fundamentals like selling and emoting. When someone knocks the playful out of him.

Watch his feud with David Starr. That's his best work to date


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Firefromthegods said:


> Funnily enough he had a woman squat on a bass amp
> 
> 
> Drew gulak was once a comedy character. But it also allowed him to show off his skills. And now people recognize him as one of the top technical wrestlers in the world.
> ...


I feel like I have to preface this every time but I am one of those AEW hater who apparently hates everything but constantly supports OC despite the obvious problems. The PAC match was great after the dumb shit occurred. It started off bad, making both competitors look like fucking idiots. OC knows that PAC is a psychopath but goes in allowing his opponent to get an advantage, then proceeds to embarrass PAC by escaping him with his hands in his pocket. It was a joke.

Also I watched BTE today and OC was standing beside Chuck and Trent and looked like complete shit. He was a up to their necks and half their size. As long as Chuck keeps his shirt on he looks far better than OC does. In saying all of this, I again have to say the gimmick only works if he's not embarrassing everyone. He can do the pocket spot to show off and say "look at how good I am", not to make opponents like PAC look bad.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Punk would have been terrible for the company. Even when motivated to wrestle, which he obviously isn't anymore, he was a hyper-critical malcontent who thinks his shit doesn't stink. Imagine that cancer in a new lockerroom without any established norms, identity.


Except most people that worked with him in WWE say he was a cool guy or at worst a guy who kept to himself.



The Wood said:


> Anyone who doesn't sign with AEW isn't worth the money, is washed up, doesn't care about wrestling, etc. Whatever excuse. Anyone that signs with AEW is a future prospect and someone that is going to be a star one day. It's just the way it goes with bias.


Yes. I've taken it upon myself to quickly go back to CM Punk speculation.

DetroitRiverPhx says above who would want Punk, he'd be terrible for the company and a cancer backstage but just 9 months ago it was the following:



> You'd need to advertise him for AEWDC to get most bang for your buck. Show up in Chicago for the hero's welcome pop but have him say nothing. Then radio silence until DC which AEW could promote "On October 2nd on TNT CM Punk gets a live mic and promises to have a lot to say...".


Seems pretty pumped up to me...

Also from Phx:



> Business man Punk should sign a 6 month contract with AEW - help put them on the map and work a couple programs. Then in 6 months time he could walk away having made himself probably a couple million in the process or he could play AEW against WWE again and probably get even more money from Vince offered as he'd be stealing a top AEW name.
> 
> Six months is 26 Wednesdays. Punk wouldn't work house shows. Probably only two PPV's over that period. Wouldn't be on every show. So say 20 total appearances over the six months, maybe 10 matches, some of those probably multi-man tag matches.
> 
> ...


I understand in the second post he expresses concern about the backstage drama Punk could bring but he is completely on board with Punk signing and making him the highest paid AEW wrestler (2 million for 6 months with a reduced schedule). Now 9 months later it's "Punk would have been terrible. He's cancer"


----------



## ThenWo/WCW (Jan 8, 2014)

*AEW IS NOT Backyard Wrestling*

They are the second WRESTLING company in America now

AEW 
Needs improvement

But not *Backyard Wrestling*


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

Balor fan said:


> True. Its just a glorified bingo hall. Sad to see Moxley quit the big leagues for this


Well, your “big league” is garbage, so.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

DOTL said:


> Well, your “big league” is garbage, so.


Its not my "big league" nor my company so thats a nonsensical comment. You're just triggered by the fact that no big star wants to go to the minor league AEW.


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Ozell Gray said:


> Its not my "big league" nor my company so thats a nonsensical comment. You're just triggered by the fact that no big star wants to go to the minor league AEW.


Literally one of the Shield guys and Mike fucking Tyson did.


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## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

Ozell Gray said:


> Its not my "big league" nor my company so thats a nonsensical comment. You're just triggered by the fact that no big star wants to go to the minor league AEW.


The word triggered, I don’t think it means what you think it means.

Firstly, there are no more big stars in wrestling. Secondly for it not being “your big league” you certainly are taking ownership of a comment directed to another user. Unless this is an alt account. . .


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## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

MontyCora said:


> Literally one of the Shield guys and Mike fucking Tyson did.


Old washed up Mike Tyson who doesn't have any star power today like he did back then. So thats a weak example.



DOTL said:


> The word triggered, I don’t think it means what you think it means.
> 
> Firstly, there are no more big stars in wrestling. Secondly for it not being “your big league” you certainly are taking ownership of a comment directed to another user. Unless this is an alt account. . .


I know what the word triggered means hence why I used it.

CM Punk is a big star and they could've gotten him but didn't because Tony Khan was unprofessional. You replied to me so no it wasn't directed at another user. Your account looks like an alternative account based off of these posts from you.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Mike Tyson has star power but I imagine AEW are paying a pretty penny to have got what they have so far out of him and he obviously has limitations. Odds are he won't wrestle (Especially if he's looking for a boxing return or signs a deal soon), he won't put anyone over and he won't promote AEW to the mainstream media. They do get a big athlete on their TV show though that they themselves can market.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Ozell Gray said:


> *Old washed up Mike Tyson who doesn't have any star power today like he did back then. So thats a weak example.*
> 
> 
> I know what the word triggered means hence why I used it.
> ...


I have to disagree with you here. Tyson was a big get for AEW despite not being as famous as he once was. He's still very well known. It's just a pity the bloke didn't want to promote his appearance and people in the know are aware that he won't be showing back up for a while, creating a lull in the story line. I think the timing was good for Tyson who is trying to promote himself but terrible for AEW who won't be able to capitalize on it for a few months, if at all.


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## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

Ozell Gray said:


> Old washed up Mike Tyson who doesn't have any star power today like he did back then. So thats a weak example.
> 
> 
> I know what the word triggered means hence why I used it.
> ...


So you’re Balor Fan? Because that’s who my reply is quoting.

Anyway, I like that your example of a “big star” is an old retired wrestler who is both younger and still less relevant than Mike Tyson.


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## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

DOTL said:


> So you’re Balor Fan? Because that’s who my reply is quoting.
> 
> Anyway, I like that your example of a “big star” is an old retired wrestler who is both younger and still less relevant than Mike Tyson.


My reply didn't quote Finn Balor but keep trolling dude.

CM Punk is more relevant in wrestling than Mike Tyson and your comments just get more and more ridiculous by the post. You keep lying about my posts because you have no argument.


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Except most people that worked with him in WWE say he was a cool guy or at worst a guy who kept to himself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Was this before or after Punk chose to sign with FS1 to be a part time commentator is a sparsely watched talk show about wrestling? That decision proved Punk wasn't remotely motivated to wrestle anymore. This sounds like I made these comments when he was appearing at Starrcast and thus seemed like he wanted to wrestle again.

What we know know is that he just wants to bitch from the sidelines. "Punk WOULD HAVE BEEN" indicates that I'm acknowledging what we've learned since about his mindset and desire to wrestle. If he would have signed then it would have been because he was given a Godfather offer level of money and thus would have only been wrestling because of it and not because he had any passion for it. I also thought at the time that he might be willing to make a short run to boost AEW just to stick it to Vince - instead he went back to basically work for Vince. Again something we learned about his mindset after these comments. 

Your second quote where I lay out my concern about


> But I would worry about Punk's pissy attitude and entitlement ruining what they're putting together in AEW as well.


Seems to meld quite well with my recent ""Punk would have been terrible. He's cancer" remark given my concerns then added to what we've learned about him since - his total desire not wrestle, just snipe from the sidelines at the company basically giving him his current platform even if FS1 is officially signing his checks. Pissy attitude+entitlement issues x no desire to wrestle and thus would have only did it for ridiculous money and not any passion for it = cancer. 

So your big gotcha expose offered nothing.


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## LRebuttal (Apr 20, 2020)

“While to expect Howard Stern to know wrestling when he never did before”

See that? It’s the little stuff you guys don’t catch.

You see what Meltzer or Alvarez just did there?

Try to paint it as Howard Stern not knowing Wrestling in order to invalidate his statement that AEW as backyard Wrestling.

Howard does know wrestling, he’s interviewed many from the WWF and WCW during the Attitude/Rock/NWO era.

Hogan and Rodman
The Rock
Stone Cold
Triple H and Chyna
Stephanie Mcmahon
Vince Mcmahon

And in the interview Howard knows the background of the wrestlers he interviewed for example knowing Chyna and Triple H were together.

Howard views AEW as backyard wrestling because it presents itself as such.

There’s a reason ECW never succeeded,

WWF/WWE, WCW, JCP and TNA would’ve never been called or viewed as backyard wrestling.


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## LRebuttal (Apr 20, 2020)

The Wood said:


> It’s not far from the truth, really. This is what a lot of people have said about niching yourself from the start. The silliness, the overt desire to appeal to the fans that used to have the label “mutants,” the shallow sports entertainment presentation, etc. Kurt Angle used to be asked all the time when he was coming back to WWE when he was in TNA, because no one knew and fewer cared.
> 
> You can see the excuses pop up immediately. “It’s new.” Yeah, like “NEW!” isn’t used to actually promote things. All those new movies and new songs that struggle to find an audience because they are new. The Rock’s new show is obviously struggling on NBC because it is new. I don’t get this perspective and never will. Being new is to AEW’s advantage — this is likely the best it is going to get. Especially when you consider that the stars, or people who want to be stars, will want to be no longer be associated with “backyard wrestling” and go to a place that people with a cursory knowledge of wrestling aren’t going to look down on you for being associated with. As I’ve said — Jericho, JR, MJF, Sammy Guevara, Jungle Boy — they’re all leaving. What you’re going to be left with is TNA 2.0.
> 
> The other excuse I see is people knocking Stern himself. His opinion is actually probably a very good representation of what people approaching AEW from outside (you know, because it’s “new”) think and get exposed to. That is the reputation AEW has cultivated for themselves, and it is their fucking fault. You act bush league, you get perceived as bush league. If you are perceived as bush league, you are bush league. It doesn’t matter if Daddy springs for Mike Tyson to come in and do a random angle with the middle-aged vanity act he also sprang for. It’s like getting a celebrity to make an appearance at your bar mitzvah at this point.


I don’t understand the new argument either, within 10 months of debuting WCW Nitro was breaking TV records.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

LRebuttal said:


> I don’t understand the new argument either, within 10 months of debuting WCW Nitro was breaking TV records.


Yep. Honestly, being new is a TV show’s best chance.


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## Ham and Egger (Dec 13, 2005)

Am I supposed to take some old ass dude word as solid perception as what people think of AEW? It's a company that's run by a billionaire and is covered by major media outlets within the country and around the world.


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Ozell Gray said:


> Its not my "big league" nor my company so thats a nonsensical comment. You're just triggered by the fact that no big star wants to go to the minor league AEW.


Ok, honest question for you. Are you in this section just to talk shit on the company and troll the posters that enjoy it? Because that's what it sounds like from this post. There is no constructive criticism coming from you. Just talking shit on the company. Is it because the rest of the sections on this forum are dead and the only active one is the AEW section?

And before I get called some AEW super fan that thinks they can do no wrong, and lashes out against anyone that critics them, hell no. AEW does a lot of things that are stupid.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Ham and Egger said:


> Am I supposed to take some old ass dude word as solid perception as what people think of AEW? It's a company that's run by a billionaire and is covered by major media outlets within the country and around the world.


Stern didn't come up with that perception himself -- it came from someone with cursory knowledge in his staff. And yes, that cursory knowledge has value. People inside the wrestling bubble often think that something is working when it really isn't. This has always been the case with Matt Hardy, for example.


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## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Klitschko said:


> Ok, honest question for you. Are you in this section just to talk shit on the company and troll the posters that enjoy it? Because that's what it sounds like from this post. There is no constructive criticism coming from you. Just talking shit on the company. Is it because the rest of the sections on this forum are dead and the only active one is the AEW section?
> 
> And before I get called some AEW super fan that thinks they can do no wrong, and lashes out against anyone that critics them, hell no. AEW does a lot of things that are stupid.


Theres no trolling that I've done just stating facts. Every criticism I've given was constructive but you can't see it because its not fitting the rara AEW narrative the rest of this forum does on here. 

Heres the criticisms right here that I've continously laid out

Not pushing young guys and the young guys not main eventing. MJF beats Cody Rhodes but drops down the card immediately afterwards and is irrelevant now, Sammy Guevara jobs out to 45 year old Matt Hardy on Dynamite, and Cody Rhodes burying Darby Allin on Dynamite. Sammy Guevara and Darby Allin both dropped down the card after losing to Hardy and Cody afterwards and are now irrelevant, doing nothing, and are stuck in limbo land.

They keep signing mediocre and old WWE guys. Brodie Lee, Jake Hager, Matt Hardy are bad signings and has no business being in the company. Jake Hager bombed as the world heavyweight champion in WWE, Matt Hardy is old and way past his prime, and Brodie Lee doesn't have that "it factor" like many claimed. 

Immediately pushing WWE guys after they've signed them. The Revival who isn't under contract now just walked on in and has a big storyline with The Young Bucks and they haven't done anything to be in that program other than be WWE guys. They hotshot all of the WWE guys into prominent roles like Brodie Lee and Matt Hardy. Thats a slap in the face of the young guys there.

Their young guys are stuck in the midcard. These guys will be stuck in the midcard forever because they keep being overlooked for WWE guys and eventually they're going to grow sick of it and leave. Why stay in AEW where you're not going to get pushed when you could go somewhere else and get pushed? These guys will leave along with Jericho, Ross, and Moxley when their contracts end.

They're spending a fortune and only averages 700k viewers. They're trending downwards and has been since their Dynamite debut. AEW has already peaked and that peak was Dynamite's debut episode where AEW blew their load. They get all types of advertisement from TNT and yet nothings working. No big star wants to go to AEW and CM Punk helped set that precedent. After that you CM Punk sign with Fox, Randy Orton play Tony Khan like a fiddle, and Cain Velasquez signing with WWE. They need to do something because TNT won't be satisfied for long with that viewership and demo. TNT are known to cancel shows on a whim after they've renewed them after 1-2 years. They've shot themselves in the foot and theres no other way to say it.


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## Dondada78 (Jun 10, 2019)

the_flock said:


> He's not wrong. They are essentially a glorified Indie promotion. Take Jericho away and they would be no better than the likes of MLW.


To be honest I'd rather have Hammerstone & Jacob Fatu than anyone on AEW's roster. Hell I still don't understand how AEW doesn't have Locked & Loaded (Dawkins & Gannon Jr.), Bill Coller, Lokomotiv Ivan Markov, Moonshine Mantell, and Edge Stone.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

They're not friends with the EVPs.


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Ozell Gray said:


> Theres no trolling that I've done just stating facts. Every criticism I've given was constructive but you can't see it because its not fitting the rara AEW narrative the rest of this forum does on here.
> 
> Heres the criticisms right here that I've continously laid out
> 
> ...


See, this is what I love to see. Great post and I agree with a lot of this.


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

LRebuttal said:


> I don’t understand the new argument either, within 10 months of debuting WCW Nitro was breaking TV records.


They were a 47 year old company when Nitro debuted


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

TKO Wrestling said:


> They were a 47 year old company when Nitro debuted


Actually if you want to count Georgia Championship Wrestling it was 51 years old when Nitro debuted but nobody in their right mind would count that because they are obviously two different companies with completely different business models.

The Universal Wrestling Corporation was formed in 1988 and that's what WCW's legal business name was. WCW was just 7 years old when it debuted on TV but many of those early 1990 years were awful and WCW pretty much had to restart. WCW probably had less of a built in audience than AEW has and they certainly weren't regularly filling 5000 seat arenas back then.

They are right in their view that AEW should be killing it. It's new and fresh so it's especially surprising that AEW has dropped over 50% of it's viewership since October.


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## MoxAsylum (Jan 9, 2020)

Who cares what this moron says. Dude is a racist who put on blackface too


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Who in their right mind would count WCW’s history before Turner took it over? The exposure levels and business models were so different.

If a gazillionaire bought MLW tomorrow and had it projected into the sky for all to see, it being started in 2004 or whatever means diddly-squat.


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## BulletClubFangirl (Jan 30, 2016)

Maybe they never heard about AEW until now but their phrasing leads me to believe they were purposefully being smug douchebags. Surely someone who did the show prep would've given them a bit more information than "some backyard fed". They have a history of doing this to those not in their mainstream bubble. Opie & Anthony was a strong second in terms of popular radio shows at their peak yet Howard and Robin always dismissed them as irrelevant shock jocks because they were insecure. Not much has changed it seems.


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## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

Ozell Gray said:


> My reply didn't quote Finn Balor but keep trolling dude.
> 
> CM Punk is more relevant in wrestling than Mike Tyson and your comments just get more and more ridiculous by the post. You keep lying about my posts because you have no argument.


Post #143
I’m replying to @Balor fan. not you, unless he’s an alt of yours.

Reading is fundamental my friend.


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## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

DOTL said:


> Post #143
> I’m replying to @Balor fan. not you, unless he’s an alt of yours.
> 
> Reading is fundamental my friend.


Ok I got it mixed up then. 

Facts are the fundamentals to life nothing else buddy.


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## Vitamin R (Jun 15, 2020)

WWE marks have been calling AEW a backyard fed/pissant T-shirt company since it was announced. This is nothing new. Stern and his camp are pals with Vince, so of course they are going to trash other promotions.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Vitamin R said:


> WWE marks have been calling AEW a backyard fed/pissant T-shirt company since it was announced. This is nothing new. Stern and his camp are pals with Vince, so of course they are going to trash other promotions.


Stern is not friends with Vince, lol. WWE used to sponsor the show about a decade and a half ago and when wrestling was super hot Stern would have the wrestlers on because they were more relevant back then. Howard has always maintained that wrestling is gay and that he doesn't like it.


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## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Vitamin R said:


> WWE marks have been calling AEW a backyard fed/pissant T-shirt company since it was announced. This is nothing new. Stern and his camp are pals with Vince, so of course they are going to trash other promotions.


Imagine thinking that Vince got Howard Stern to trash a show that couldn't even beat Total Bellas is the most reasonable explanation for AEW's irrelevance.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

NathanMayberry said:


> Imagine thinking that Vince got Howard Stern to trash a show that couldn't even beat Total Bellas is the most reasonable explanation for AEW's irrelevance.


The extent some people will go to is insane. 

AEW stopped being a concern the moment they saw the Casino Battle Royale and knew that they had no idea how to book (that was their World Title contender's match on a pre-show featuring Glacier and a legless guy, by the way). Sponsors and networks aren't going to drop WWE for a show that averages 800k people weekly and glorifies binge-drinking in 2020. Vince will remain a billionaire, so he could not give a shit about them. As I've said elsewhere, given WWE's vulnerable situation, he probably sends Shad Khan a Christmas card now because his monopoly is secure and they've probably discouraged other billionaires from throwing their hat into the rink.


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## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Why is this relevant? breaking news: Wrestling isn't mainstream anymore.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Definition of Technician said:


> Why is this relevant? breaking news: Wrestling isn't mainstream anymore.







Bowling For Soup wrote a song about a wrestler.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Bowling For Soup wrote a song about a wrestler.


Hot Topic is literally full of wrestling merchandise as well




__





Sites-hottopic-Site


Commerce Cloud Storefront Reference Architecture




www.hottopic.com


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## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Bowling For Soup wrote a song about a wrestler.


And I had never heard of them before that Bliss video. Your point?


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The Definition of Technician said:


> And I had never heard of them before that Bliss video. Your point?


I'm not a huge music guy, but even I have heard for Bowling with Soup. You cannot be serious.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Definition of Technician said:


> And I had never heard of them before that Bliss video. Your point?


I can give you a pass because you're in France but Bowling For Soup were pretty big time. Not really so much now but they had a few really big hits that they've made a living for a long time singing. 1985 and High School Never Ends might be songs you recognise if you heard them.


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## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I can give you a pass because you're in France but *Bowling For Soup were pretty big time*. Not really so much now but they had a few really big hits that they've made a living for a long time singing. 1985 and High School Never Ends might be songs you recognise if you heard them.


So just like Stern? If they're not themselves mainstream anymore, that means that they're just big fans of wrestling. 
I mean, Stephen Amell is a B+ Actor but just because he likes wrestling and talks about it doesn't make it mainstream.

In all this, if Stern does show up at AEW and ends up talking about it on his show and can concert a few thousand fans, good enough. 🤷‍♂️


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Mainstream is such a bizarre and subjective term. Is The Big Show Show mainstream? I saw it promoted to shit on Netflix and had friends comment about it. People know who John Cena is. Does that make him mainstream? I don't know, I'm genuinely asking. 

Wrestling isn't cool and it's far less popular as far as being wrestling than it ever has been. But it's just that word "mainstream." When does being watched by 2 million people every Friday night become mainstream versus niche?


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Definition of Technician said:


> So just like Stern? If they're not themselves mainstream anymore, that means that they're just big fans of wrestling.
> I mean, Stephen Amell is a B+ Actor but just because he likes wrestling and talks about it doesn't make it mainstream.
> 
> In all this, if Stern does show up at AEW and ends up talking about it on his show and can concert a few thousand fans, good enough. 🤷‍♂️


I guess it depends what you class as mainstream and what you class as not. Howard Stern pops up on mainstream TV shows all the time and within the past 12 months has interviewed the likes of Adam Sandler, Billie Eilish, Harry Styles, Jennifer Aniston, Miley Cyrus, Paul McCartney and a fair few others. With that in mind publicists, producers etc would certainly view Howard Stern as relevant in the mainstream media. Remember, this is a guy that got a disabled dwarf acting work on legitimate TV shows for big money based on the fact he would talk about it.

Bowling For Soup aren't on Howard's level but I guarantee you if they wrote a song named "Darby Allin" every AEW fan on this board would be going nuts about it and how it'll be a big boost to AEW's ratings and how AEW must be mainstream now so it's probably fair to call them mainstream also.

Howard isn't turning up in AEW. TNA hired Bubba The Love Sponge when he was a close friend of Howard's and Howard buried them on his show. If TNA couldn't get him with a close personal friend than AEW and Goldust have no hope.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Howard Stern is a household name. Everybody knows who the guy is. You may not like him and you might still judge his more dated and controversial "shock jock" stuff from the 90's against him, but he's considered a staple of broadcasting. He's South Park the radio show. You can take him or leave him, personally, but to discredit this guy as a nobody is pretty ignorant to the guy's very legitimate presence in broadcasting.


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## Stephen90 (Mar 31, 2015)

Stern nor wrestling is mainstream these days.


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