# Possible Reason For AEW Female Audience Declining



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Garbage wrestling doesn´t draw females.. Who would have thought?


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

No eye candy either. Just geeks.


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## Whoanma (Apr 5, 2016)

Of all the things to complain about, that match? Really? That match was awesome, and this is said by one who doesn’t even like Britt Baker, but both women delivered.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Well then, i bid the ladies adieu


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## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

Give anyone long enough and they will eventually find something negative to say about everything.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*Anyone with common sense knows women don't like this show because they don't prioritize the women's division at all. You can look in the Twitter search bar and figure that out.*


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## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Well then, i bid the ladies adieu


Like Quint?


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## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

Ehh...I see women at lots of UFC shows, where blood loss is a likely occurrence. You even see these MMA men and women with massive swelling on their faces. I doubt blood itself is the problem. While some women are put off by blood, other women dig it.

If the ladies were put off more by tables instead of thumbtacks, then extreme violence isn’t the reason either.

The fact that the match did not count due to being unsanctioned is probably more to blame for women not liking the match. Since it comes as “this is the main event, but not really” to some folks. But I don’t really care they did not like it. Women aren’t the only ones that are watching the show.

I think it would be very interesting to know what segments and which superstars females like on this show.


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## Joe Gill (Jun 29, 2019)

this is not surprising at all.... even during the peak of ecw it was a sausage fest. if you want more female fans you have to start pushing talent like jungle boy... he is very popular with the ladies.


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## thorwold (Dec 19, 2015)

LADIES LOVE MOXLEY


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Joe Gill said:


> this is not surprising at all.... even during the peak of ecw it was a sausage fest. if you want more female fans you have to start pushing talent like jungle boy... he is very popular with the ladies.


Exactly. That's why Vince is so high on people like Roman because he looks like Jason Momoa. 

It works both ways, you need eye candy for women as well as men.


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## bigwrestlingfan22 (May 19, 2015)

Personally, I'm all man and a huge Britt Baker fan but the second she bladed I turned it off. I've got no interest in seeing women bleed and gore themselves like that.


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## Pablo Escobar (Mar 22, 2007)

Ok, Dave... literally it was one week later. ... not like a trend.... at least not yet.


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## NondescriptWWEfan (May 9, 2017)

it was offputting seeing the ladies bleed.


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## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Verbatim17 said:


> Ehh...I see women at lots of UFC shows, where blood loss is a likely occurrence. You even see these MMA men and women with massive swelling on their faces. I doubt blood itself is the problem. While some women are put off by blood, other women dig it.
> 
> If the ladies were put off more by tables instead of thumbtacks, then extreme violence isn’t the reason either.
> 
> ...


HUUUUUGE difference in fanbases though. 

If you're attending mma fights you enjoy combat sports (people getting punched and kicked in the face)you are there for the violence or sports.

In wrestling alot of people watch for entertainment or the storylines and storytelling.Especially the woman are more interested in those aspects rather then watching girls killing each other.Its kinda part of genetics men are more drawn to ultra violence with few exceptions.


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## shadow_spinner (Dec 6, 2019)

Do you know who attends a Justin Beiber concert? Young women. Women may enjoy women getting spotlight but what they enjoy more is watching good looking guys. Who in AEW fits that mold who could be a hear throb for women like some athletes and actors who are popular with women?


> The Britt Baker vs. Thunder Rosa match was huge as far as drawing male viewers from NXT over


It was a novelty, men love to watch women get hardcore, some may truly enjoy the sport and think it was awesome, some actually get aroused by the thought of it. It's why hardcore porn has an appeal for many men.


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## Ashley Keene (Mar 27, 2021)

Oh i like it


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Well all know Dave doesn’t like these type of matches

no shock he is seeing a ‘trend’

well, revolution did the best sales blah blah blah on a deathmatch dave, there’s another trend


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## jack121 (Sep 13, 2016)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Anyone with common sense knows women don't like this show because they don't prioritize the women's division at all. You can look in the Twitter search bar and figure that out.*


☝ This. AEW are seemingly incapable of booking their women's division well.


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## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Women's wrestling will not draw women.

What will draw women is soap-opera style feuds, cat fights, men fighting over women etc.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

It is still very weird to hear people say that what women want to see most of all is a women's division getting more time. Where were those WNBA arenas packed full of female fans? Oh yeah, it never happened.

Push someone like Ricky Starks, Sammy Guevara, etc. Not a bunch of geeks. Someone with personality and appeal.. Most women and most men do not want to see flipping middle schoolers and painfully tiny dudes. Men loved the Rock for being hilarious and a badass, and the women wanted that strudel. Sometimes the simple answer is the right one.


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

You know, one program that WWE did that the majority of us didn't like that women loved was that Lashley/Lana/Rusev triangle. Those sorts of angles pull in women all the time, they want the sports entertainment part more than anything else really. 

One thing I think might help is Cody and Brandi's show. Those type of things are more watched by women most of the time, its the reason Total Divas and The Bella Twins have been successful in bringing in women viewers, some of which were interested enough to actually watch the main shows.


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## midgetlover69 (Nov 27, 2016)

No it cant be because the show is filled to the brim with jackoffs like qt marshall, joe janela and dark order. No people love that! Its gotta be all that damn blood!


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## Shock Street (Oct 27, 2020)

They put both womens tournaments on Youtube and theyre surprised women aren't watching? Crazy how outright telling them to their face that they're tertiary to the show didn't pump the numbers up... as if Shida getting 0 story didn't already do it.


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## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Two Sheds said:


> It is still very weird to hear people say that what women want to see most of all is a women's division getting more time. Where were those WNBA arenas packed full of female fans? Oh yeah, it never happened.
> 
> Push someone like Ricky Starks, Sammy Guevara, etc. Not a bunch of geeks. Someone with personality and appeal.. Most women and most men do not want to see flipping middle schoolers and painfully tiny dudes. Men loved the Rock for being hilarious and a badass, and the women wanted that strudel. Sometimes the simple answer is the right one.


Agree. This idea that women want to watch women wrestle is part of this fake "women's revolution" that begun with the Knockout division in TNA.

The Attitude Era drew women because they enjoyed the soap opera-style feuds, the cat fights and the hot men. There was no serious women's wrestling in sight. I wonder if a feud between Guevara and Starks over a woman would draw a good portion the female demographic. They could do reality-style promotions, flex competitions and the like. The woman could confide in other women and discuss who to pick out of the two.


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## tower_ (Nov 19, 2020)

They put the belt on a balding geek and are confused why women arent watching?


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## NapperX (Jan 2, 2014)

So tell us why Total Divas ratings are down then? *Tell us why female MMA is still going strong?*......hint....a large percentage of women who watch wrestling never watched it for the female fighters and you can usually hear how vocal they are about it.

It takes time to build a female audience in a male dominated fight drama series. When AEW starts developing more storylines that are catered to women then you will see a difference, but until then, focus on their talents.


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## tower_ (Nov 19, 2020)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Anyone with common sense knows women don't like this show because they don't prioritize the women's division at all. You can look in the Twitter search bar and figure that out.*


The #1 biggest problem with AEW is listening to idiots on twitter. The idea that the womens division has anything to do with drawing women is a massive cope. Do you think WOMEN are the ones tuning in to see japanese schoolgirls, Nyla Rose and hell, Thunder Rosa's ass? Hell no


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## Swindle (Jul 24, 2018)

Joe Gill said:


> this is not surprising at all.... even during the peak of ecw it was a sausage fest. if you want more female fans you have to start pushing talent like jungle boy... he is very popular with the ladies.


To this day, I wonder why Jungle Boy doesn't have a bigger role. He actually has a bit of star quality to him.


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## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

Doesn't matter. Women don't watch wrestling, or many combat sports, and never have. They don't even watch regular sports. So who cares? Wrestling, when it was at it's most popular, was for the guys. Keep marketing to men. Disregard women and children.


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## somerandomfan (Dec 13, 2013)

I don't know where the stereotype of women being put off and scared by the sight of blood come from... I think some guys were sleeping in biology...


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## ElTerrible (Feb 8, 2004)

Geert Wilders said:


> Women's wrestling will not draw women.
> 
> What will draw women is soap-opera style feuds, cat fights, men fighting over women etc.


Exactly. I made a similar topic a few weeks ago. All the people in AEW seem to be asexual. No women hitting on Hangman or Jungle Boy. MJF and Sammy don´t care about females. Nobody in the Dark Order trying to hit on Anna Jay or Tay Conti. What´s the point of Sonny Kiss? Nobody on the roster has the hots for Asian girls like Shida or older guys like Jericho/Christian. 

You don´t need to go all Horny Vince to write good relationship/sexual attraction based angles. You want people (women) to watch your product. Write compelling normal life storylines that people can relate to.

If The Pinnacle wants to win all the belts, why do they not have a female member? That´s basically telling (female) viewers that the women´s belt is not considered an equal and has no value. 

Also their roster has gotten far too big and some guys that people connected with early like Jungle Boy or Orange Cassidy have been completely lost in the shuffle. Orange Cassidy´s lazy limp dick character basically begs for a female trying to resurerect him. Him sitting on chair with his hands in his pockets, sunglasses on, not moving, while he gets a lapdance from a female, who considers herself irresistible. Then she pulls back his sunglasses and he is asleep.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

somerandomfan said:


> I don't know where the stereotype of women being put off and scared by the sight of blood come from... I think some guys were sleeping in biology...


Right?!


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## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

ElTerrible said:


> Exactly. I made a similar topic a few weeks ago. All the people in AEW seem to be asexual. No women hitting on Hangman or Jungle Boy. MJF and Sammy don´t care about females. Nobody in the Dark Order trying to hit on Anna Jay or Tay Conti. What´s the point of Sonny Kiss? Nobody on the roster has the hots for Asian girls like Shida or older guys like Jericho/Christian.
> 
> You don´t need to go all Horny Vince to write good relationship/sexual attraction based angles. You want people (women) to watch your product. Write compelling normal life storylines that people can relate to.


AEW could be hitting gold if they put Conti and Sammy together. Put the 2 best looking talents in the company together, and make them heels. Love stories have always had a place in every TV show. It creates a conflict, creates something to fight for.

Tony, I think has shied away from this altogether (which IMO is a mistake). Tony is treating AEW like it's UFC. Hence the focus on W/L record. He's trying to make it "real", where talents only care about either personal beefs, or a title.

The show would be more entertaining if it was more relationship oriented. Blur the lines between reality and the show. Imagine if Britt started flirting with Wardlow or something. Then Wardlow plants a kiss on her. Everyone knows she's Adam Cole's BF, so that would get lot of buzz over what's going on? Maybe even have Britt start removing pics of Adam from her IG. You can do SO many different things given how people follow social media at bluring the lines, creating controversy, and getting more people to watch even females


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Women might generally want women to succeed, but there has been observable inconsistencies between female performers drawing female fans. This is not exclusive to wrestling. This is for a myriad of reasons:

It could be internalised misogyny. It could ironically be a feminist inkling that female performers are exploiting themselves/being exploited.

There’s a weird safe spot to hit when it comes to marketing women for women. It’s a hard one to strike.

But the reason women aren’t tuning into AEW is because it’s an obnoxious product riddled with 15 year old boy syndrome and it doesn’t have the sexy men to back up its immaturity.

AEW lacks sex appeal. It’s that simple.


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## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

Women don't watch wrestling for womens wrestling, nor do they watch because indy geeks who look like shit no sell death defying moves just to get Dave Meltzer off.

Most of the AEW roster probably come across as autistic dorks to the average woman. Just the reality of the situation.


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

AEW lacks the drama to pull in women. Omega should actually flaunt his conquests it would really add to his ability to draw. It’s a major weakness of AEWs.


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Randy Lahey said:


> Doesn't matter. Women don't watch wrestling, or many combat sports, and never have. They don't even watch regular sports. So who cares? Wrestling, when it was at it's most popular, was for the guys. Keep marketing to men. Disregard women and children.


Disregard children and the huge toy and computer games market. 

Disregard women, despite a big push for women's rights and the me too movement dominating the press in the last couple of years.

I know a lot of women who got in to the industry after discovering Total Divas, then paid to watch the network to see Total Bellas, end up buying female stars merch, shows like Swerved and Tough Enough and ended up falling in love with guys like Miz and New Day. Bought more merch. Watch Miz and Maryse. Argued who they preferred out of Cena and Danielson. Went to live shows to see the divas. End up seeing guys like Roman Reigns and instantly getting a crush. Then watch Raw and Smackdown just to watch the hot guys. It's a huge market and if AEW disregard it just to keep a few neckbeards happy, then they would be incredibly stupid. There's more money in keeping the women happy, then there is Geeks Watching Miro argue over computer games.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

the_flock said:


> Disregard children and the huge toy and computer games market.
> 
> Disregard women, despite a big push for women's rights and the me too movement dominating the press in the last couple of years.
> 
> I know a lot of women who got in to the industry after discovering Total Divas, then paid to watch the network to see Total Bellas, end up buying female stars merch, shows like Swerved and Tough Enough and ended up falling in love with guys like Miz and New Day. Bought more merch. Watch Miz and Maryse. Argued who they preferred out of Cena and Danielson. Went to live shows to see the divas. End up seeing guys like Roman Reigns and instantly getting a crush. Then watch Raw and Smackdown just to watch the hot guys. It's a huge market and if AEW disregard it just to keep a few neckbeards happy, then they would be incredibly stupid. There's more money in keeping the women happy, then there is Geeks Watching Miro argue over computer games.


Drawing women is a good way to draw men.


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## Mister Sinister (Aug 7, 2013)

Let it be the end of garbage wrestling.


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## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

the_flock said:


> Disregard children and the huge toy and computer games market.
> 
> Disregard women, despite a big push for women's rights and the me too movement dominating the press in the last couple of years.
> 
> I know a lot of women who got in to the industry after discovering Total Divas, then paid to watch the network to see Total Bellas, end up buying female stars merch, shows like Swerved and Tough Enough and ended up falling in love with guys like Miz and New Day. Bought more merch


Raw's lost 50% of their audience by pushing those things. In just 3 years. So no, that would be disastrous for AEW. AEW needs to be the opposite of WWE. And it's the neckbeards that want women's wrestling and kiddie G rated flippy pc garbage. Casuals don't want to watch that.

AEW needs to market to 18-34 men. That's it. The crowd that is watching UFC now. The same age group, that if they were in that group in 1999, would have been watching the Attitude Era.

Total Divas debuted in 2013. Raw averaged 4.3 million viewers a week then. Raw now averages 1.8 million viewers. So you really want to argue Total Divas helped increase viewership of WWE?

For any % of women you MAY gain, you drive off more men. So it's a net loser. As the viewership of Raw and Smackdown show. Smackdown can't even get 2 million viewers a week on FREE NETWORK TV.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The WWE don’t exactly hit the right spots when they allegedly market towards women and children. They might with Roman Reigns. But the intentionality is not the actuality. Does the WWE product actually appeal to women and children? Or is that just what the fan perceives them as trying to do.

Appealing to women and children — actually doing it — is definitely a good thing.


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## Charzhino (Nov 20, 2007)

Women watch 2 types of men. The alpha machos and boyish daredevils. Go back to the attitude era and listen to the girly screams every time the Hardy boys or The Rock or HBK came out on the entrance stage. Is there any talent in AEW or even to an extent WWE that comes close to these. Both rosters are full of geeks, hobos and midgets. Its not about blood.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Sex. Appeal. AEW does not have it.


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## Boldgerg (Apr 2, 2017)

If you want to draw both casuals and women then you put a rocket on the likes of Wardlow. It's that simple.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Boldgerg said:


> If you want to draw both casuals and women then you put a rocket on the likes of Wardlow. It's that simple.


Wardlow is a good example of a guy they should hypothetically use, but I don’t know how “ready” he is for the spot. You don’t want to rush through that stuff either. Guys like Wardlow would be wise to feature though.


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

The Wood said:


> The WWE don’t exactly hit the right spots when they allegedly market towards women and children. They might with Roman Reigns. But the intentionality is not the actuality. Does the WWE product actually appeal to women and children? Or is that just what the fan perceives them as trying to do.
> 
> Appealing to women and children — actually doing it — is definitely a good thing.


Yeah nothing on WWE tv appeals to kids, nothing. IWC for some strange reason think it does but then again same people think WWE is giving them "sports like product" with no storylines


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## stew mack (Apr 24, 2013)

Whoanma said:


> Of all the things to complain about, that match? Really? That match was awesome, and this is said by one who doesn’t even like Britt Baker, but both women delivered.



it is what it is man.. we got different tastes. i dont get certain things women like and im sure they dont get why i always get verkempt when i watch conan the barbarian! not a bad thing just a difference


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## stew mack (Apr 24, 2013)

bigwrestlingfan22 said:


> Personally, I'm all man and a huge Britt Baker fan but the second she bladed I turned it off. I've got no interest in seeing women bleed and gore themselves like that.
> [/QUOTE





The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> You know, one program that WWE did that the majority of us didn't like that women loved was that Lashley/Lana/Rusev triangle. Those sorts of angles pull in women all the time, they want the sports entertainment part more than anything else really.
> 
> *One thing I think might help is Cody and Brandi's show. Those type of things are more watched by women most of the time, its the reason Total Divas and The Bella Twins have been successful in bringing in women viewers, some of which were interested enough to actually watch the main shows.*



this is the number one reason why i get actually angry when people cant be objective and realize nikki bella worked her ass off to get to a passable inring ability and mic work, bree is the one that sucks but gets a pass ironically because she is married to Daniel Bryan (these nerds then project this shit with her and cena)


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## shadow_spinner (Dec 6, 2019)

Swindle said:


> To this day, I wonder why Jungle Boy doesn't have a bigger role. He actually has a bit of star quality to him.


 Jungle Boy's father was a famous actor. He was on the show Riverdale when he passed. What is Riverdale known for? Over the top trashy, campy angles while sexualizing everything on a show mainly watched by young women. That is what women like to watch, maybe push him and get some eye balls.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

I know what the solution is:


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Its almost like they should be heavily pushing jungle boy, Sammy Darby (yeah his short but his pretty attractive) Hangman as well as guys like mjf and omega. Omega is a good looking guy too. Also starts and kaz


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## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

Firefromthegods said:


> Its almost like they should be heavily pushing jungle boy, Sammy Darby (yeah his short but his pretty attractive) Hangman as well as guys like mjf and omega. Omega is a good looking guy too. Also starts and kaz


Darby Allin isn't attracting any casual women. He looks like a skinny emo geek. Someone put it correct in the youtube comments when they said it was like "when the popular girl tries to talk to the creepy goth guy"


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## CenaFan247 (Mar 22, 2021)

the_flock said:


> No eye candy either. Just geeks.


You ain't lying lol, really no good looking girls either


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

There’s different strokes for different folks, but AEW would be what is considered “ugly” by television standards.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Randy Lahey said:


> Darby Allin isn't attracting any casual women. He looks like a skinny emo geek. Someone put it correct in the youtube comments when they said it was like "when the popular girl tries to talk to the creepy goth guy"


Not your conventional supermodel or girl next door blond woman more your rocker alternative chick's. The Jeff hardy girl.

So not your scarjos but your Emma stones or Anna kendricks


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Sex. Appeal. AEW does not have it.


Look at all that sex appeal.


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

I'd wager that the fact that the women feel completely irrelevant has a bigger impact. How many women will tune into see the female wrestlers prioritised on the same level of 2010 Divas in WWE? The Women's Champ is completely irrelevant and the rest of the division are all after thoughts to the guys. 

Amazingly when you look at WWE and a match like Sasha vs Bianca supposedly getting a Main Event WrestleMania slot the McMahons are doing more to appeal to women.


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## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

jack121 said:


> ☝ This. AEW are seemingly incapable of booking their women's division well.


Except that's not what this is about......it was literally only about how this particular match saw a dip in the female demographic......meanwhile the match was almost unanimously praised by fan and wrestler alike.

If losing some woman for a match ends up with the positive media and overall reactions this match revieved,I'd say it was well worth it. Not every match is for every person plain and simple.


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## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

I figured the allure of a 600:1 ratio at live show of sweaty guys in unwashed Bullet Club shits drooling over them would have kept them coming?!


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## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

Firefromthegods said:


> Not your conventional supermodel or girl next door blond woman more your rocker alternative chick's. The Jeff hardy girl.
> 
> So not your scarjos but your Emma stones or Anna kendricks


But again, the goal should be to appeal to the most amount of women. Not tiny subsets of women.

It’s like there’s probably a small % of men that like fat women. But fat women aren’t going to be featured because they don’t appeal to the masses. And I don’t think a guy like Darby Allen appeals to mass amounts of women, at least not compared to guys like Sammy or Wardlow


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## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

CenaFan247 said:


> You ain't lying lol, really no good looking girls either


AEW is plenty of good looking babes. Anna Jay, Penelope, Bunny, Tay Conti are all smoking hot for women’s wrestling. Britt has a great body and charisma.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Randy Lahey said:


> But again, the goal should be to appeal to the most amount of women. Not tiny subsets of women.
> 
> It’s like there’s probably a small % of men that like fat women. But fat women aren’t going to be featured because they don’t appeal to the masses. And I don’t think a guy like Darby Allen appeals to mass amounts of women, at least not compared to guys like Sammy or Wardlow


Didn't say push him to a world title but what they're doing is enough to satisfy that type of girl. You're right I'm just saying why his attractive lol


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## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Amazingly when you look at WWE and a match like Sasha vs Bianca supposedly getting a Main Event WrestleMania slot the McMahons are doing more to appeal to women.


They are doing more to appeal to women while at the same time driving off a large part of their audience.

So it’s not a net positive. The women’s revolution drove viewers away


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## MonkasaurusRex (Jul 3, 2016)

the_flock said:


> No eye candy either. Just geeks.


Britt has a banging body.


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Randy Lahey said:


> AEW is plenty of good looking babes. Anna Jay, Penelope, Bunny, Tay Conti are all smoking hot for women’s wrestling. Britt has a great body and charisma.


One of the problems in AEW is most of these woman aren't presented in an appealing way. 

Anna Jay is hanging around a group with a child and a bunch of dorks. Same with Tay. 

Penelope is hanging around the black hole of talent Kip Sabian as they feud over video games. When she's not doing that shes "accidently" kissing Joey Janella 

Bunny was in a ridiculous storyline with a balding man and is now managing a jobber tag team that features her husband who she apparently cheated on with QT Marshall of all people. 

Britt has been used fairly well for the most part and is attractive but most guys aren't totally into a girl bleeding like Ric Flair. 

So really outside of Britt, most of the sexy woman are being brought down to the male dorks level and thus are not appealing to the average man.


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

Randy Lahey said:


> They are doing more to appeal to women while at the same time driving off a large part of their audience.
> 
> So it’s not a net positive. The women’s revolution drove viewers away


Everything drove fans away.

The endless spot monkeys.
The lack of wrestlers who can cut a promo.
The lack of wrestlers with a personality.
The lack of wrestlers with charisma.
WWE only pushing the same few people year after year who all look the same as each other.
The overall downfall of Pro Wrestling.


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## MonkasaurusRex (Jul 3, 2016)

Randy Lahey said:


> They are doing more to appeal to women while at the same time driving off a large part of their audience.
> 
> So it’s not a net positive. The women’s revolution drove viewers away



Wrestling being culturally irrelevant drove viewers away. There is no single idea or action that did it just years and years of fading into obscurity. Featuring women more prominently is one of the most culturally in tune things WWE has done in decades but it came far too late for it to matter. They had already fallen back into being a niche product. When even the most ardent of fans are lamenting watching the product it makes it nearly impossible to reach the audience you are trying to appeal to.


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## CenaFan247 (Mar 22, 2021)

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Britt has a banging body.


Eh....She's ok, her caking herself in makeup doesn't help


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Randy Lahey said:


> AEW is plenty of good looking babes. Anna Jay, Penelope, Bunny, Tay Conti are all smoking hot for women’s wrestling. Britt has a great body and charisma.


Smoking hot would have been Trish, Torrie Wilson,Stacey Kiebler. 

Perhaps Brandi fits in that category, but none of the women in AEW are smoking hot, they're pretty generic.


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## attituderocks (Jul 23, 2016)

Attitude Era had plenty of female fans and that time was all blood and violence. Women went nuts for DX/HHH.


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## kingfunkel (Aug 17, 2011)

Simply put there's no eye candy. You accuse men of sexualising the women but the women do the same with the men. If they had peak Jericho then the women viewers wouldn't be in decline.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Billy Gunn is still one of the most built guys on the roster. Think about that.


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Randy Lahey said:


> They are doing more to appeal to women while at the same time driving off a large part of their audience.
> 
> So it’s not a net positive. The women’s revolution drove viewers away


Stop with this nonsense please.

3 hours of Raw is why less people watch Raw. SD pre pandemic in 2020 was getting same numbers as 2010...

We know "viewers" haven't actually gone anywhere anyway. Network subs have increased each year not fallen. WWE Youtube viewers has gone through the roof since 2015


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## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

attituderocks said:


> Attitude Era had plenty of female fans and that time was all blood and violence. Women went nuts for DX/HHH.


Exactly. Blood, violence, and sex has always been over. That was my point in bringing up MMA, which did take in the Attitude Era fanbase.

Yes, there are the hardcore fans of wrestling that would never fuck with MMA and vice versa. And then there are those who watch both, simply because they love combat themed events. There are women aren’t necessarily turned off by this stuff. To suggest otherwise is dishonest.

If this is just Meltzer being anti-garbage wrestling, maybe someone should remind him that even NJPW has a garbage match once in a while. There’s always one at Wrestle Kingdom now. It hasn’t stopped women from showing up to NJPW events either.


----------



## shadow_spinner (Dec 6, 2019)

I posted and asked about this on Reddit and Facebook and any women who responded said the blood had nothing to do with it and say Meltzer should not be relying on the opinion of just 1 woman to generalize a whole group of women. There may be a reason for why viewership is drawing but some women call BS on some of the reasons stated here. Again that may also be generalizing as well.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

shadow_spinner said:


> I posted and asked about this on Reddit and Facebook and any women who responded said the blood had nothing to do with it and say Meltzer should not be relying on the opinion of just 1 woman to generalize a whole group of women. There may be a reason for why viewership is drawing but some women call BS on some of the reasons stated here.


The reason is treating women as an afterthought on show for 2 years. Maineventing one throwaway episode where they bleed simply isn't enough.

Vince had fucking CWs and Alicia Fox mainevent Raw.. doesn't mean he was suddenly catering to fans of theirs.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Britt has a banging body.


Each to their own. I wouldn't say she has a sexy body. Men like curves.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

I asked my wife out of the AEW roster, who she's thinks would appeal to Women. This is who she said would have mass appeal. 

Alex Reynolds, Angelico, Anthony Bowens, Austin Gunn, Christian Cage, Colt Cabana, Ethan Page, Isiah Kassidy, John Silver, Kip Sabian, Lee Johnson. 

She also remarked that Chris Jericho used to be "fit" years ago, but not anymore and also said Darby Allin would be more appealing without the stupid face paint. She said look at those "guns" in regards to Matt Jackson. Surprisingly said The Butcher has sex appeal. 

She said the vast majority of the roster weren't attractive. 

I said Miro used to be known as Rusev, she said no that is not Rusev, what the hell happened to him. She knew of him because of Lana. 

She recognised "Dean Ambrose" because of Total Divas, I said he's called Jon Moxley, she said that's a stupid name and Dean Ambrose is much better. 

She said Cody doesn't look like a wrestler, I said he used to be known as Stardust, she said he's a terrible wrestler. 

She scoffed at Luchasaurus and said eugh no, then she shook her head at Luther. She saw Marko Stunt and said shut up, he is not a wrestler, I said he is she's said he looks like a little boy. 

I showed her pictures of the wrestlers that people on here think are attractive to females. She said Kenny looks constipated. Page is average looking. Jungle Boy, she said is that really his name, before saying no. MJF hell no. OC definitely not. Ricky Starks, no. Sammy looks like a 15 year old who thinks he's cool, but really he's sleazy. She then said Wardlow probably spends more time in front of the mirror pouting than training. 

So there you have it. 1 womans views and its pretty damning.


----------



## shadow_spinner (Dec 6, 2019)

the_flock said:


> I asked my wife out of the AEW roster, who she's thinks would appeal to Women. This is who she said would have mass appeal.
> 
> Alex Reynolds, Angelico, Anthony Bowens, Austin Gunn, Christian Cage, Colt Cabana, Ethan Page, Isiah Kassidy, John Silver, Kip Sabian, Lee Johnson.
> 
> ...


It's fair to not, what a woman finds attractive is very subjective. If we poll more than one and get similar results then we get a better consensus. With that said I won't minimize what she said, especially what she said about Miro, Moxely because in the real world many may have the same opinion.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex (Jul 3, 2016)

the_flock said:


> Each to their own. I wouldn't say she has a sexy body. Men like curves.


Media representation of beauty over the last forty years or more wouldn't support that claim at all.

Seriously look at what has been presented as the standard of beauty for the last half century. Women who are rail thin with no hips, thighs, butts and even sometimes breasts to speak of.

Let's face it though society adheres to the example set by the media. People have been told what is beautiful and presented with a template for it and societally we have mostly followed that lead. With sometimes disastrous results for the women who are deemed unsexy because they don't fit that mold. Why do you think there are so many body positivity campaigns out there these days. This is a world where Beyonce is like a size 6 and is considered thick.


----------



## justin waynes (Feb 8, 2020)

The Wood said:


> The WWE don’t exactly hit the right spots when they allegedly market towards women and children. They might with Roman Reigns. But the intentionality is not the actuality. Does the WWE product actually appeal to women and children? Or is that just what the fan perceives them as trying to do.
> 
> Appealing to women and children — actually doing it — is definitely a good thing.


Who told you roman reigns is a big draw to kids and women? A lot of them sores on him. Roman reigns isn't really the rock


----------



## justin waynes (Feb 8, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Sex. Appeal. AEW does not have it.


Isn't adampage,miro,omega,all in sexy? Aside roman,Seth ,drew and randy who else is sexy in wwe ? Women don't watch wrestling because of sex appeal ,they watch because of good storyline and for a record majority of the women fans are women's wrestling fans


----------



## justin waynes (Feb 8, 2020)

Randy Lahey said:


> AEW is plenty of good looking babes. Anna Jay, Penelope, Bunny, Tay Conti are all smoking hot for women’s wrestling. Britt has a great body and charisma.


That's true ,I don't see most of the women in wwe sexy too


----------



## justin waynes (Feb 8, 2020)

validreasoning said:


> Stop with this nonsense please.
> 
> 3 hours of Raw is why less people watch Raw. SD pre pandemic in 2020 was getting same numbers as 2010...
> 
> We know "viewers" haven't actually gone anywhere anyway. Network subs have increased each year not fallen. WWE Youtube viewers has gone through the roof since 2015


Really don't know why some people don't know this but keep claiming to be expert online


----------



## justin waynes (Feb 8, 2020)

the_flock said:


> I asked my wife out of the AEW roster, who she's thinks would appeal to Women. This is who she said would have mass appeal.
> 
> Alex Reynolds, Angelico, Anthony Bowens, Austin Gunn, Christian Cage, Colt Cabana, Ethan Page, Isiah Kassidy, John Silver, Kip Sabian, Lee Johnson.
> 
> ...


You can't generalize your wife's view of the product for every female out there


----------



## justin waynes (Feb 8, 2020)

kingfunkel said:


> Simply put there's no eye candy. You accuse men of sexualising the women but the women do the same with the men. If they had peak Jericho then the women viewers wouldn't be in decline.


Oh pls wrestling has less things to do with sex appeal or does Daniel Bryan have any sex appeal


----------



## justin waynes (Feb 8, 2020)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Everything drove fans away.
> 
> The endless spot monkeys.
> The lack of wrestlers who can cut a promo.
> ...


That's true,you said it all


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

justin waynes said:


> Oh pls wrestling has less things to do with sex appeal or does Daniel Bryan have any sex appeal


Not true at all. Sable regularly pulled in millions of viewers after the playboy shoot. 

Half the audience during the attitude era can be attributed to sex appeal. 

Guys like Billy Gunn, Val Venis, Shawn Michaels were actual sex icons for women.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

justin waynes said:


> You can't generalize your wife's view of the product for every female out there


You can't I agree, you would need a bigger census, it was a viewpoint from an actual woman and not just a load of blokes on here though, to try and understand why women's viewing figures of the product aren't that great.

The vast majority of people on here agree that the men simply aren't sexy enough. 

What are women in to currently? Millionaire housewive reality shows, Drag Queens and High School dramas. AEW doesn't appeal at all.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Truly booking for everybody is focusing on your core which is the male audience and giving them hard hitting action with good stories. Next make sure you have hot women that have their own issues as well as relationships with the good looking guys to appease men and women because that brings drama. Finally make sure you have some cool looking people that can attract the kids to buy toys as they'll want to watch anyway if there's fighting and the adults say it's cool.


----------



## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

the_flock said:


> Smoking hot would have been Trish, Torrie Wilson,Stacey Kiebler.
> 
> Perhaps Brandi fits in that category, but none of the women in AEW are smoking hot, they're pretty generic.


Torrie and Stacy weren't wrestlers. Anna Jay is just as hot as Trish. You can't compare female wrestlers, to female valet/divas. AEW doesn't have model type valets like Kelly kelly, Torrie, or Stacy, but I think the show would be better if they featured a few. But for just female wrestlers, the girls that AEW does have are very good looking.


----------



## justin waynes (Feb 8, 2020)

the_flock said:


> You can't I agree, you would need a bigger census, it was a viewpoint from an actual woman and not just a load of blokes on here though, to try and understand why women's viewing figures of the product aren't that great.
> 
> The vast majority of people on here agree that the men simply aren't sexy enough.
> 
> What are women in to currently? Millionaire housewive reality shows, Drag Queens and High School dramas. AEW doesn't appeal at all.


Who in wwe is very sexy except Seth,drew and roman? Page,miro,all in,starks have good sex appeal but it has nothing to do with women watching wrestling. Women watch women wrestling and might just tune in for a while to watch their favourite crush on screen .this is what I've noticed.


----------



## justin waynes (Feb 8, 2020)

the_flock said:


> Not true at all. Sable regularly pulled in millions of viewers after the playboy shoot.
> 
> Half the audience during the attitude era can be attributed to sex appeal.
> 
> Guys like Billy Gunn, Val Venis, Shawn Michaels were actual sex icons for women.


Sable was more of a fashion model or star than a wrestler ,that's the reason for those views and also the attitude


the_flock said:


> Not true at all. Sable regularly pulled in millions of viewers after the playboy shoot.
> 
> Half the audience during the attitude era can be attributed to sex appeal.
> 
> Guys like Billy Gunn, Val Venis, Shawn Michaels were actual sex icons for women.


Sable was more of a fashion model than a wrestler and she was in the best era of wrestling and the best draws in the men division. Sable is not really the most sexiest lady in wwe tbf. Women tune in yo watch great storyline that's all


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

justin waynes said:


> Who in wwe is very sexy except Seth,drew and roman? Page,miro,all in,starks have good sex appeal but it has nothing to do with women watching wrestling. Women watch women wrestling and might just tune in for a while to watch their favourite crush on screen .this is what I've noticed.


You think only Seth, Roman and Drew have sex appeal in WWE, but think Miro and Ricky Starks do. That is funny. 

I could literally name 30+ wrestlers in WWE who are pleasing to the eye for Women.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

justin waynes said:


> Sable was more of a fashion model than a wrestler and she was in the best era of wrestling and the best draws in the men division. Sable is not really the most sexiest lady in wwe tbf. Women tune in yo watch great storyline that's all


It doesn't matter whether they were a playboy model, miss universe, galaxy, or whatever. The fact of the matter is Women like Sable had the biggest increase in viewership for her segments at the time, whether she was featuring in her lingerie, being a valet, it doesn't matter. It worked.

The same goes for Val Venis saying hello ladies whilst being shown in a bath towel in a steamy room, women loved that shit and guys hated it. It worked. 

Shawn Michaels telling the world that he lost his smile had grown ass women crying in the audience.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

shadow_spinner said:


> I posted and asked about this on Reddit and Facebook and any women who responded said the blood had nothing to do with it and say Meltzer should not be relying on the opinion of just 1 woman to generalize a whole group of women. There may be a reason for why viewership is drawing but some women call BS on some of the reasons stated here. Again that may also be generalizing as well.


Meltzer does this a lot. He’ll use an anecdote from his life and extrapolate it to have a lot of meaning. He’ll use his son as the gauge of a “normal teenager” who “doesn’t even like wrestling.” When his son asks to go to the Cow Palace to see Cody Rhodes wrestle Joey Ryan, he acts like any of that shit is over. He overlooks that through osmosis, his son has probably absorbed a ton of wrestling lore in his formative years and is NOT as distant from wrestling as the normal teenager.


----------



## What A Maneuver (Jun 16, 2013)

Women are not put off by violence and blood. Can we please stop acting like we're fragile little ladies that are scared of oozing red stuff? Believe me, we are not phased by blood. We couldn't be. I'm a woman and my attention has been slipping, but that match was about the only thing that pulled me in. 

I won't pretend to speak for all women, but we generally consume a lot of grand scale and deep fiction. AEW doesn't really tell stories. Wrestling in general is barely telling stories. We like villains, heroes, people trying to kill each other. And we also enjoy seeing other women used well and supporting them. This is not some puzzling mystery. We just like things that are good.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lol, imagine telling women that they are afraid of blood. It just dawned on me how ridiculous that is. I skimmed over that part to just explain why I don’t think AEW’s overall marketing is appealing, but yeah — that’s so fucking stupid on so many levels — in a wrestling context and outside it.

If you want to criticise the blood in AEW, maybe the context should be analysed? Why are people getting colour and what is the attitude behind it? I do think two guys cutting themselves for no reason could turn a lot of women off. As it would turn men off. And children off. Because it should.


----------



## somerandomfan (Dec 13, 2013)

What A Maneuver said:


> Women are not put off by violence and blood. Can we please stop acting like we're fragile little ladies that are scared of oozing red stuff? Believe me, we are not phased by blood. We couldn't be. I'm a woman and my attention has been slipping, but that match was about the only thing that pulled me in.





The Wood said:


> Lol, imagine telling women that they are afraid of blood. It just dawned on me how ridiculous that is.


I stand by my statement from earlier, all I can figure is some men were asleep in biology class, I don't understand where that idea comes from about women being terrified by the sight of blood...


----------



## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

Joe Gill said:


> this is not surprising at all.... even during the peak of ecw it was a sausage fest. if you want more female fans you have to start pushing talent like jungle boy... he is very popular with the ladies.


This is very true! My partner loves it when Jurassic Express wrestle. Building compelling storylines helps too, something which BTE really fills in well. It could be better though.


----------



## Impermanence (Feb 25, 2021)

Geert Wilders said:


> Women's wrestling will not draw women.
> 
> What will draw women is soap-opera style feuds, cat fights, men fighting over women etc.


Hahaha. THIS. If anything , women's wrestling even drives a portion of the male hardcore(and casual) fans away because they don't care to watch an inferior division. They wanna see Roman Reigns, Brian Cage, Randy Orton, Brock Leanar, Lashley and the like prove who the Alpha Male is, or exciting technical wrestling featuring Daniel Bryan, Cesaro and the like, and women in Eye Candy role like how Zelina Vega was booked, or Lana in 2014 was. 

A big reason I refuse to watch NxT is exactly that- an overload of women's wrestling on top of an already bland male roster. 

If AEW starts pushing women's wrestling like NxT and Raw do, I'll probably stop caring about AEW altogether.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Randy Lahey said:


> They are doing more to appeal to women while at the same time driving off a large part of their audience.
> 
> So it’s not a net positive. The women’s revolution drove viewers away


That’s a real problem for all of wrestling and why I’m shocked there isn’t a women’s promotion for them all.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Perhaps part of the problem is AEW doesn't really have any out-and-out main event babyfaces right now besides Moxley, who is an acquired taste. Not trying to stereotype, but I feel a charismatic, handsome good guy would help draw in female viewers.

Push these two as the top babyfaces and I think you'd get some women in for obvious reasons. Throw Sammy into the TNT title picture too as he's the pretty boy the ladies might get behind.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

TKO Wrestling said:


> That’s a real problem for all of wrestling and why I’m shocked there isn’t a women’s promotion for them all.


Unfortunately, I think the reason there isn’t a women’s promotion is because of that fear that it isn’t going to draw. That and the idea of having a show without many women probably scares the corporate WWE. But you can still feature some women on your main roster even if they have their own show for the bulk of the wrestling.


----------



## Impermanence (Feb 25, 2021)

the_flock said:


> I asked my wife out of the AEW roster, who she's thinks would appeal to Women. This is who she said would have mass appeal.
> 
> Alex Reynolds, Angelico, Anthony Bowens, Austin Gunn, Christian Cage, Colt Cabana, Ethan Page, Isiah Kassidy, John Silver, Kip Sabian, Lee Johnson.
> 
> ...


Lol that was a fun read. 

I have a hard time navigating or guiding a female friend of mine(we are in different cities) to forward through old episodes or Raw or Smackdown on the WWE Network. She's a tomboy and it's damn fun watching intense matches featuring Austin, Angle, Benoit and the like with her. It's a BLAST.

We watched a couple of Raw vs Smackdown survivor Series matches and she instantly liked Finn Balor. She also liked "mohawk" Guy Sheamus. Said she finds men in kilts cute(Piper's Pit segment from Smackdown April 10, 2003, I told her he's from Scotland, 80s wrestler like Hulk Hogan) 

So one day I wanted to watch Benoit vs Orton from Raw 2004 and it featured a few segments involving the diva search- christy hemme, amy Weber, joy giovanni were on there... And all that because we can't watch the matches ome after the other. .and she said she HATES the women's segments/parts. 

And those were some of the hottest women out there. What are the odds she is gonna like the women on NxT or AEW? 

It's a WIN for me of course because I'd never wanna watch women's wrestling, whether it appeals to women or not. 

It's just funny how even women want to see guys they consider "hot" Or "cute" Or in some way funny over hot women or women's wrestling.. Like this female friend of mine always laughs seeing Rikishi, finds the 2000/2001 Kurt Angle whiney but funny, and pretty much likes all the tall beefy dudes like Rock, Brock.... 

I think what it really boils down to is looks, charisma and personality... Which Rock, Rikishi, Kane, Kurt Angle, Booker T, Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton all had in one way or another. Even Sheamus. 

I can't see how my tomboy friend would like Kenny Omega, Moxley, Miro, MJF, Darby Allin and such based on the looks/personality/charisma factor. 

Oh and I'd actually be embarrassed to introduce her to AEW... I'd literally rather introduce her to NxT because of Karrion Kross, Eli Drake and Finn Balor.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Wood said:


> Unfortunately, I think the reason there isn’t a women’s promotion is because of that fear that it isn’t going to draw. That and the idea of having a show without many women probably scares the corporate WWE. But you can still feature some women on your main roster even if they have their own show for the bulk of the wrestling.


But there ARE two women's promotions (founded by the same guy!). GLOW, which has existed since the mid 80's and WOW which is over 20 years old now. Their primary demographic is men. Another strong data point that shows what women primarily want is not women wrestlers.


----------



## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

What A Maneuver said:


> AEW doesn't really tell stories. Wrestling in general is barely telling stories. We like villains, heroes, people trying to kill each other. And we also enjoy seeing other women used well and supporting them. This is not some puzzling mystery. We just like things that are good.


And that’s likely the real issue. You’d think with amount of tv time AEW has every week, and picture-in-picture making it easier to hold long matches from beginning to end that don’t eat up tv time, that AEW would be able to progress characters and stories more effectively. A lot of these men and women just wrestle, and if they against a bigger name, then odds are you know they are going to lose the match. It really feels like AEW signed a roster that only knows how to wrestle, but can’t act or know how to cut promos, or even do an interview. Expecting viewers to follow on BTE doesn’t help either. How many times have we on this forum had to fill in the blanks for the stories and character development occurring on screen?

Why is it then a surprise that female viewers – or just viewers in general – aren’t watching the show? Even reality tv drivel like Total Divas has stories, a general narrative, for the audience to follow along. And character to be invested in, regardless if you are rooting for them or against them.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

3venflow said:


> Perhaps part of the problem is AEW doesn't really have any out-and-out main event babyfaces right now besides Moxley, who is an acquired taste. Not trying to stereotype, but I feel a charismatic, handsome good guy would help draw in female viewers.
> 
> Push these two as the top babyfaces and I think you'd get some women in for obvious reasons. Throw Sammy into the TNT title picture too as he's the pretty boy the ladies might get behind.
> 
> View attachment 99315


The 3 people you mentioned aren't charismatic or handsome.


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Two Sheds said:


> But there ARE two women's promotions (founded by the same guy!). GLOW, which has existed since the mid 80's and WOW which is over 20 years old now. Their primary demographic is men. Another strong data point that shows what women primarily want is not women wrestlers.


Isn´t Shimmer still a thing? as far as I know Leyla Hirsch had a match there.


----------



## BlueEyedDevil (Dec 26, 2019)

John Silver needs to up his heterosexual rating. It stands now at only 62%. For the demographic they are seeking to entice it needs to get in the mid 80s or higher.


----------



## tower_ (Nov 19, 2020)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> I'd wager that the fact that the women feel completely irrelevant has a bigger impact. How many women will tune into see the female wrestlers prioritised on the same level of 2010 Divas in WWE? The Women's Champ is completely irrelevant and the rest of the division are all after thoughts to the guys.
> 
> Amazingly when you look at WWE and a match like Sasha vs Bianca supposedly getting a Main Event WrestleMania slot the McMahons are doing more to appeal to women.


How is that going for the WWE? For all this talk about taking womens wrestling seriously over the past few years all it has gotten them is continually dwindling ratings. Is that because of the women? Probably not, but theyre doing anything to stop it either. People (including women) watch wrestling for draws. Ronda Rousey is a draw. Most womens wrestlers are not


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

yeahright2 said:


> Isn´t Shimmer still a thing? as far as I know Leyla Hirsch had a match there.


I guess I should have said "at least two." I am sure there have been several I have forgotten about or have closed up. I guess my point was that none have ever really taken out or have been packed with female fans excited to watch women wrestling.


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Two Sheds said:


> I guess I should have said "at least two." I am sure there have been several I have forgotten about or have closed up. I guess my point was that none have ever really taken out or have been packed with female fans excited to watch women wrestling.


I thought Shimmer was fairly big as far as an all-women promotion go, that´s why it surprised me you didn´t mention them, but mentioned GLOW who only recently received new life partly because of the Netflix series.
I could be wrong about Shimmer being big? I know next to nothing about female promotions


----------



## tower_ (Nov 19, 2020)

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Seriously look at what has been presented as the standard of beauty for the last half century. Women who are rail thin with no hips, thighs, butts and even sometimes breasts to speak of.


This is because the fashion industry is run by women. It's documented through studies that women think the ideal man and woman are thinner than what men do. Men idealize the buff, muscley...maybe steroidy type. Their idea of a fashion model is Kate Upton, not actual fashion models. Thats why people are pushing Darby and Jack Perry, because theyre the best AEW has to offer. But it's not really much. The Rock wasnt rail thin but he was a bigger draw than all of AEW combined


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

tower_ said:


> This is because the fashion industry is run by women. It's documented through studies that women think the ideal man and woman are thinner than what men do. Men idealize the buff, muscley...maybe steroidy type. Their idea of a fashion model is Kate Upton, not actual fashion models. Thats why people are pushing Darby and Jack Perry, because theyre the best AEW has to offer. But it's not really much. The Rock wasnt rail thin but he was a bigger draw than all of AEW combined


The fashion industry is not run by women. It is run by gay men and some women.


----------



## Impermanence (Feb 25, 2021)

tower_ said:


> How is that going for the WWE? For all this talk about taking womens wrestling seriously over the past few years all it has gotten them is continually dwindling ratings. Is that because of the women? Probably not, but theyre doing anything to stop it either. People (including women) watch wrestling for draws. Ronda Rousey is a draw. Most womens wrestlers are not


I think the idea of watching a wrestling show for "draws" Is correct and whether or not people want to watch 3 hour Raws and 2 hour NxT episodes depends on:- 

1) How much filler stuff is featured on the show as compared to draws or solid matches. 

2)Whether or not people consider women's wrestling as FILLER, which in my case I do consider it inferior, unwatchable, non-enjoyable so any show which features more of it will automatically drive me away . 

For instance I'm watching the "Old School Raw" 3-hour special edition of Raw from November 2010 and managed to torture myself my watching filler like 

1) Santino and Kozlov vs the Usos
2) Kofi vs David Otunga, which sucked
3) Numerous backstage segments featuring the legends, all of which were boring and un-funny. 
4) Mark Henry vs Dolph Ziggler which was a boring match (I give it 2/10) 

There was also a Mae Young and divas segment and other filler matches, which I'm gonna ignore. 

I mean, once you realize a David Otunga or Mark Henry match is gonna suck, you damn sure remember to judge future Otunga and Henry matches as FILLER. 

And that's what women's wrestling is because they sure as hell are not as athletic as your Zigglers and Kofis, entertaining as your Ortons or Wade Barretts, and even the handful female wrestlers who are decent in the ring are not worth watching because I just find them to be unbelievable and inferior, whereas at least David Otunga and Mark Henry look legit. 

So if I wanted to torture myself I'd watch what I consider FILLER from the men's side of things. 

I'm also gobsmacked that a Raw from over TEN YEARS ago was that boring and had 1.5 hours of filler. 

At the end of the day I think that's what it boils down to.. Casual wrestling fans wouldn't wanna spend 3 hours watching a show where every good match is followed by 2-3 terrible matches or segments, and women's wrestling by default amounts to that. 

All the WWE has done by their women's revolution since 2016 is told them in no uncertain terms- WE'RE GONNA PUT ON LOTS OF WOMEN'S WRESTLING ON RAW and IT'S HISTORIC, and drove a segment of fans away. And the ratings have never been worse. 

By the way I chose to watch this episode specifically for Daniel Bryan vs Jack Swagger and just happened to try other stuff from it.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

the_flock said:


> The 3 people you mentioned aren't charismatic or handsome.


Well that's certainly subjective and I'm sure you'll post your rationale.

I think Wardlow looks like a movie star and seems the type of hunk women would like. Of every wrestler in AEW, his look stands out to me as that of a main eventer. Which makes his lack of usage even more puzzling.










Hangman has an aura of likeability and charm about him. More debatable than Wardlow, you'd have to ask some women, but I can see the cowboy appeal.










Sammy is more of your typical teeny bopper pretty boy... who are often insanely popular with young girls (1D, Bieber). No reason he couldn't be either with the correct presentation. And yes, he is charismatic.


----------



## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

Wardlow is definitely a leading man Hollywood type looks wise. Sammy is the douchebag frat boy that always has a ton of hot girls around him. These 2 should be presented as natural arrogant cocky heels.

But, to get over as a man, you can't just be good looking. You gotta have some charisma. Charisma makes all the difference when you're comparing male actors. Take for instance the difference between Leo DioCraprio, and Channing Tatum. Most women would conclude both are good looking, but Leo is going to get far more attention because he has far more charisma. Randy Orton is a good looking guy, but he could never be presented as that because he didn't get the nickname Randy Borton for nothing. The guy is a bore. Like male mannequin type boring.

So whether Wardlow has the "it" factor, we'll see. But as someone else said, if I were AEW i'd put the rocket ship on him. Have him hit on Britt. Get that relationship started. Blur the lines. Sammy definitely has enough charisma to pull in the teen girls


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## .christopher. (Jan 14, 2014)

I mean, the audience is sinking in general.

Yes, women want eye candy, but they want an entertaining show, too. Just like anyone who watches something. AEW is not entertaining and that's the problem.

Write a consistently good show and more people - including women - will watch.


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## qntntgood (Mar 12, 2010)

.christopher. said:


> I mean, the audience is sinking in general.
> 
> Yes, women want eye candy, but they want an entertaining show, too. Just like anyone who watches something. AEW is not entertaining and that's the problem.
> 
> Write a consistently good show and more people - including women - will watch.


Agreed,but I will ask what any of these matches good especially the thunder Rosa vs Britt baker match.because every last one of them have lacked logic and storytelling.and when you ask most aew fans,this question they can't explain it.


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## Boxingfan (Jan 14, 2021)

Put hangman page in the main event to bring back the women


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## stew mack (Apr 24, 2013)

Boxingfan said:


> Put hangman page in the main event to bring back the women



id rather not have him nor his older brother adam cole on my screen.


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## VIP86 (Oct 10, 2019)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Anyone with common sense knows women don't like this show because they don't prioritize the women's division at all. You can look in the Twitter search bar and figure that out.*


nope (the real world says otherwise), the vast majority of the Female Audience doesn't care at all about the women's division in any company.
in the 80s the women divisions were pretty much non-existent and the Female Audience was at an all-time high

the Female Audience wants to see good looking men, and that's the simple truth
and since AEW is 90% geeky looking men and midgets, it's not hard to see why the Female Audience just doesn't care


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## Charzhino (Nov 20, 2007)

The Wood said:


> Unfortunately, I think the reason there isn’t a women’s promotion is because of that fear that it isn’t going to draw. That and the idea of having a show without many women probably scares the corporate WWE. But you can still feature some women on your main roster even if they have their own show for the bulk of the wrestling.


They had a couple of all women's PPVs on WWE a while back didn't they. I dont know how well the numbers were but the fact they haven't tried to do that again...


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

VIP86 said:


> nope (the real world says otherwise), the vast majority of the Female Audience doesn't care at all about the women's division in any company.
> in the 80s the women divisions were pretty much non-existent and the Female Audience was at an all-time high
> 
> the Female Audience wants to see good looking men, and that's the simple truth
> and since AEW is 90% geeky looking men and midgets, it's not hard to see why the Female Audience just doesn't care


*And you're wrong. Sasha Banks has been the biggest star in wrestling for the last 10 months. She and Bayley have the highest rated segment(s) of the COVID era. There's a campaign with over 30,000 tweets to get Sasha and Bianca to Main Event WrestleMania. Just because you're oblivious to the impact of women's wrestling doesn't mean no one else cares.*


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## VIP86 (Oct 10, 2019)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *And you're wrong. Sasha Banks has been the biggest star in wrestling for the last 10 months. She and Bayley have the highest rated segment(s) of the COVID era. There's a campaign with over 30,000 tweets to get Sasha and Bianca to Main Event WrestleMania. Just because you're oblivious to the impact of women's wrestling doesn't mean no one else cares.*


maybe you didn't see it the first time, or maybe you ignored it because it doesn't suit the narrative
but here it is again
in the 80s the women divisions were pretty much non-existent and the Female Audience was at an all-time high

twitter doesn't mean anything, and it doesn't represent the real world
anybody uses twitter as a measurements in anything, just doesn't live in reality

it's fine if you personally like women's wrestling, but it doesn't change the fact that the majority doesn't care about it
nothing you could say can change that


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## MonkasaurusRex (Jul 3, 2016)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *And you're wrong. Sasha Banks has been the biggest star in wrestling for the last 10 months. She and Bayley have the highest rated segment(s) of the COVID era. There's a campaign with over 30,000 tweets to get Sasha and Bianca to Main Event WrestleMania. Just because you're oblivious to the impact of women's wrestling doesn't mean no one else cares.*


30,000 on all of Twitter and this is supposed to indicate a massive desire to see Women's Wrestling? I don't think that number holds much weight.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

VIP86 said:


> maybe you didn't see it the first time, or maybe you ignored it because it doesn't suit the narrative
> but here it is again
> in the 80s the women divisions were pretty much non-existent and the Female Audience was at an all-time high
> 
> ...


*People literally get paid to monitor social media trends for wrestling companies. Maybe you're stuck in the 80s and don't understand how wrestling works in the modern era, but Twitter is very important for gauging interest.*


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## VIP86 (Oct 10, 2019)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *People literally get paid to monitor social media trends for wrestling companies. Maybe you're stuck in the 80s and don't understand how wrestling works in the modern era, but Twitter is very important for gauging interest.*


Twitter (and social media in general) is the least realistic measurements you can count on in terms of real world stuff.
People get paid to monitor social media because companies now are too afraid to offend anyone especially the crazy SJWs who live their lives on social media and get offended professionally.

and please don't give me this "your stuck in the past" argument (because its weak)

the point you keep ignoring because you know very well you don't have an answer to it is

by all historical accounts, the Female Audience numbers was at its height during the 80s (when there wasn't any women divisions to speak of)

and right now when every company has its own women division (the Female Audience numbers is at an all time low)

if that doesn't tell you that women in general don't care about women's wrestling, then you're looking at the wrong indications

you can't tell me that the women in WWE have the highest segment, when in realty this is because the rest of the show is dog shit
it's not like they have the highest segments against rock or austin or even cena
an average segment in a mediocre show, doesn't count as a major success
it's almost 3 years now since WWE Evolution PPV
why didn't they make another all women's PPV until now if women's wrestling is in this high demand you speak off ?

even in AEW, the episode with first women's main event in the history of the company did the lowest Demo in 2021 (and it was a hardcore match at that)

i'll say it again, it's 100% fine if you like women wrestling
i wish you continue enjoying it as much as you like
but don't try to twist the reality, or deny the historical facts simply because you're enjoying something


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

3venflow said:


> Well that's certainly subjective and I'm sure you'll post your rationale.
> 
> I think Wardlow looks like a movie star and seems the type of hunk women would like. Of every wrestler in AEW, his look stands out to me as that of a main eventer. Which makes his lack of usage even more puzzling.
> 
> ...


I fully understand where you're coming from, but you're basing that on stereotypes and not even up to date stereotypes. 

Sammy looks like a douche who some teenage girls would be attracted to, but most females would stay clear from him. Comparing him to Harry Styles is ludicrous. 

Hangman has a good look, but he's not that aesthetically pleasing. 

I'm sorry but no women are attracted to guys like Wardlow who spend more time in front of the mirror than they do. He is also too big, most general women don't like that look. He doesn't look like a Hollywood star, that is utter bull. 

When you look at lists of the sexiest men or women. They are all older guys and they all look rugged, not baby faces, not men who spend hours grooming themselves and they all have normal body types. Based on your stereotypes you probably thought Jason Biggs was sexy in 1999, but in reality women want someone who looks like Richard Gere. 

Who's sexy now? Michael B Jordan has been crowned sexiest man in the world. Its often said women like guys who look normal, who look like them.


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *People literally get paid to monitor social media trends for wrestling companies. Maybe you're stuck in the 80s and don't understand how wrestling works in the modern era, but Twitter is very important for gauging interest.*


It's true that companies do monitor social media. But a lot of results are false negatives.

You're not taking in to account the sad marks who set up campaigns in order to get things trending. The marks who don't actually watch the show and spend their entire time on social media trying to change the narrative.

The fact that more and more people are leaving social media.

The fact that half the world aren't even on social media.

The fact that those who are on social media, probably aren't specifically mentioning the product in question.

So the data you do have is minimal.


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## Bestiswaswillbe (Dec 25, 2016)

VIP86 said:


> Twitter (and social media in general) is the least realistic measurements you can count on in terms of real world stuff.
> People get paid to monitor social media because companies now are too afraid to offend anyone especially the crazy SJWs who live their lives on social media and get offended professionally.
> 
> and please don't give me this "your stuck in the past" argument (because its weak)
> ...


Boss of Belair doesn't live in reality. He made a thread about Itoh Mati being the "next huge thing" in AEW because of "tweets" roughly 2 hours before she got shipped back to Japan. He called Sasha Banks a "huge star" of The Mandalorian when she has only appeared in one episode months ago and is not scheduled to be on the show again. The guy lives in an alternate plane of reality where whatever he likes the world also considers "huge".


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Two Sheds said:


> But there ARE two women's promotions (founded by the same guy!). GLOW, which has existed since the mid 80's and WOW which is over 20 years old now. Their primary demographic is men. Another strong data point that shows what women primarily want is not women wrestlers.


Oh yeah, I misspoke. I meant why a mainstream company like WWE, trying to progressive and whatnot, doesn’t have their own. But I agree with the overall point.


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## VIP86 (Oct 10, 2019)

Bestiswaswillbe said:


> Boss of Belair doesn't live in reality. He made a thread about Itoh Mati being the "next huge thing" in AEW because of "tweets" roughly 2 hours before she got shipped back to Japan. He called Sasha Banks a "huge star" of The Mandalorian when she has only appeared in one episode months ago and is not scheduled to be on the show again. The guy lives in an alternate plane of reality where whatever he likes the world also considers "huge".


i still didn't watch The Mandalorian
so i can't judge what Sasha Banks did in it
but she is charismatic and likable, i won't be surprised if she was good


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## What A Maneuver (Jun 16, 2013)

I do agree that twitter doesn't entirely represent the real world, BUT it does tell you a hell of a lot more about women and their likes/dislikes than a thread of guys theorizing that we're just here for cat fights and hot dudes. Because....oh my god no, especially the former. That doesn't even make sense.

Women are scared off by lack of story or characters to get invested in. That's the simplest way to say it.


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## VIP86 (Oct 10, 2019)

What A Maneuver said:


> I do agree that twitter doesn't entirely represent the real world, BUT it does tell you a hell of a lot more about women and their likes/dislikes than a thread of guys theorizing that we're just here for cat fights and hot dudes. Because....oh my god no, especially the former. That doesn't even make sense.
> 
> Women are scared off by lack of story or characters to get invested in. That's the simplest way to say it.


i believe you when you say "That doesn't even make sense" to you
but it does for 90% of the women
no woman is gonna watch Marko Stunt in the ring even if he has prime Ric Flair's talent or the charisma of the rock
no matter the storyline
and that's just one example

Americans of all people should be the last to trust twitter (and social media) to be an indication of anything
the year 2016 proved this


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

The number of women watching was always small, so a change of a few thousand can seem like a big deal


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## What A Maneuver (Jun 16, 2013)

VIP86 said:


> i believe you when you say "That doesn't even make sense" to you
> but it does for 90% of the women
> no woman is gonna watch Marko Stunt in the ring even if he has prime Ric Flair's talent or the charisma of the rock
> no matter the storyline
> ...


I said heterosexual women wanting to watch cat fights makes no sense to me. I can't see a single reason we'd be into that. 

And I'm telling you right now, a 1 who carries himself like a 10 will always get a girl's attention over a "hot dude" without a lick of charisma. But again, hot guys is not the major draw for women with wrestling. It's wrestling.


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## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

Not a single woman in the world is interested in watching geeks like the Dark Order. Tony Khan doesn’t get it.


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## shadow_spinner (Dec 6, 2019)

People are arguing about whether Women draw when that argument is irrelevant imo. AEW has had the women main event ONCE, AEW is not the company to be arguing whether the womens division is turning people away. It's a fact that AEW is locker room culture. It's like kids playing video games and the type of humor they do, men who play high school sports, ect... Women, unless you're part of the boys, don't feel included in that. They would watch the show and feel the show is not for them. And besides that, there isn't some guy to latch on too. The women who say stuff like "I don't watch wrestling for the hot guys, or for the women, I watch it for the wrestling", well you are a hardcore fan. An exception to the rule. Women for the most part enjoy campy story lines, enjoy drama. That is why shows like grey's anatomy are popular, those shows on ABC that are just over the top sexualized characters and story lines, shows like Real House Wives have iconic moments till this day. Women love that stuff. When you watch female reactions on YouTube, 90% of them are focused on ships, and the relationship drama. The problem is AEW is catered to wrestling fans, which is good for hard core wrestling fans but for the casual fan and especially the casual women fans, they feel like it's not for them.


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## VIP86 (Oct 10, 2019)

What A Maneuver said:


> And I'm telling you right now, a 1 who carries himself like a 10 will always get a girl's attention over a "hot dude" without a lick of charisma.


so for example you're saying that a midget like Marko Stunt has the same chances getting a girl's attention like Wardlow
and all he needs is a little charisma ?
i commend your idealism, but sorry that's not how the real world works


What A Maneuver said:


> hot guys is not the major draw for women with wrestling. It's wrestling.


again, i like how you personally look at it
but in reality, wrestling comes after other factors in terms of attracting the Female Audience


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## What A Maneuver (Jun 16, 2013)

VIP86 said:


> so for example you're saying that a midget like Marko Stunt has the same chances getting a girl's attention like Wardlow
> and all he needs is a little charisma ?
> i commend your idealism, but sorry that's not how the real world works
> 
> ...


Does Marko Stunt carry himself like a 10? No. It's not idealism, it's growing up around women to see a pattern. Benedict Cumberbatch and Adam Driver are both ugly as hell but have women drooling all over them. It goes back to my original point in that characters and story are a major appeal. You can be ugly as sin and still come off as sexy as long as you're interesting and over six foot. This doesn't apply to every single man on the planet obviously, and Marko Stunt is never gonna be one of those exceptions. It also hurts that he looks like a child.

When I said women are into wrestling, I didn't mean just the mat performing. I meant all that wrestling is supposed to encompass: characters, story and in ring action. It was in response to anyone trying to funnel it down to one single reason a woman may or may not like wrestling. Things are never black and white.


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## somerandomfan (Dec 13, 2013)

I just have to say I'm surprised Heels is a failure, you're telling me that you can't build a community from the ground up by charging $50 to join? No...


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## VIP86 (Oct 10, 2019)

What A Maneuver said:


> Does Marko Stunt carry himself like a 10? No. It's not idealism, it's growing up around women to see a pattern. Benedict Cumberbatch and Adam Driver are both ugly as hell but have women drooling all over them. It goes back to my original point in that characters and story are a major appeal. You can be ugly as sin and still come off as sexy as long as you're interesting and over six foot. This doesn't apply to every single man on the planet obviously, and Marko Stunt is never gonna be one of those exceptions. It also hurts that he looks like a child.
> 
> When I said women are into wrestling, I didn't mean just the mat performing. I meant all that wrestling is supposed to encompass: characters, story and in ring action. It was in response to anyone trying to funnel it down to one single reason a woman may or may not like wrestling. Things are never black and white.


how dare you !!!??? take that back
Benedict Cumberbatch and Adam Driver are not ugly

do you have any idea who are you messing with ?
one is a wizard
the other can choke people to death with his mind


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

shadow_spinner said:


> People are arguing about whether Women draw when that argument is irrelevant imo. AEW has had the women main event ONCE, AEW is not the company to be arguing whether the womens division is turning people away. It's a fact that AEW is locker room culture. It's like kids playing video games and the type of humor they do, men who play high school sports, ect... Women, unless you're part of the boys, don't feel included in that. They would watch the show and feel the show is not for them. And besides that, there isn't some guy to latch on too. The women who say stuff like "I don't watch wrestling for the hot guys, or for the women, I watch it for the wrestling", well you are a hardcore fan. An exception to the rule. Women for the most part enjoy campy story lines, enjoy drama. That is why shows like grey's anatomy are popular, those shows on ABC that are just over the top sexualized characters and story lines, shows like Real House Wives have iconic moments till this day. Women love that stuff. When you watch female reactions on YouTube, 90% of them are focused on ships, and the relationship drama. The problem is AEW is catered to wrestling fans, which is good for hard core wrestling fans but for the casual fan and especially the casual women fans, they feel like it's not for them.


Excellent post.

Argument about women is silly. We know for a fact the most watched match during pandemic era on TV if you discount the NFL lead was between two women


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## Bestiswaswillbe (Dec 25, 2016)

What A Maneuver said:


> I said heterosexual women wanting to watch cat fights makes no sense to me. I can't see a single reason we'd be into that.
> 
> And I'm telling you right now, a 1 who carries himself like a 10 will always get a girl's attention over a "hot dude" without a lick of charisma. But again, hot guys is not the major draw for women with wrestling. It's wrestling.


lol no it's not. Anytime I've watched wrestling with girls they always comment on "how hot" the wrestlers are and I've turned a lot of women into wrestling fans over the years. But these are regular girls, not wrestling message board girls. So try to see it from a woman's point of view who is more of a casual.


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

tower_ said:


> How is that going for the WWE? For all this talk about taking womens wrestling seriously over the past few years all it has gotten them is continually dwindling ratings. Is that because of the women? Probably not, but theyre doing anything to stop it either. People (including women) watch wrestling for draws. Ronda Rousey is a draw. Most womens wrestlers are not


True. But most of the guys aren't draws either. Guys like Rollins, McIntyre, etc have never been able to do anything except continue the downward trend of ratings.

So people can hate on the women all they want but they're not making a difference, negative or positive.


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## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

Verbatim17 said:


> Ehh...I see women at lots of UFC shows, where blood loss is a likely occurrence. You even see these MMA men and women with massive swelling on their faces. I doubt blood itself is the problem. While some women are put off by blood, other women dig it.
> 
> If the ladies were put off more by tables instead of thumbtacks, then extreme violence isn’t the reason either.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a stretch. MMA is more socially acceptable than wrestling. The brutality of it is probably more overlooked because of that reason. I doubt the format of the match factored in much. If someone is so casual that they can switch between shows, would they be aware of a detail like that?


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## DestinationUnknown (Mar 20, 2021)

Mr316 said:


> Not a single woman in the world is interested in watching geeks like the Dark Order. Tony Khan doesn’t get it.


My female best friends favorite wrestler is John Silver. I don't get it because he's probably my 12th favorite. But she loves him and The Dark Order. People like OC, John Silver, Cody, Darby and Omega are carrying the heart throb flag for AEW, but they can't be on screen all episode unfortunately. This is when women tune out


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## llj (Feb 22, 2018)

Whoanma said:


> Of all the things to complain about, that match? Really? That match was awesome, and this is said by one who doesn’t even like Britt Baker, but both women delivered.


Many women don't like the same things as men. I love John Wick and Charles Bronson but my girlfriend doesn't.

That doesn't mean women can't enjoy violence. But what is awesome to our specific audience of male wrestling critics may not be to another set of eyes.


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