# Sticky  Lucha Libre Match/Show Discussion/Reviews



## adri17

I watched this year's Triplemania and I have to say it was an awesome show. That's all the Lucha Libre I watched this year.


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## New Blood

adri17 said:


> I watched this year's Triplemania and I have to say it was an awesome show. That's all the Lucha Libre I watched this year.


I haven't seen that yet. I've heard good and bad things about L.A. Park vs. La Parka. But hearing how the atmosphere and everything going into it, makes me want to track it down.


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## USAUSA1

Everybody knows am a lucha junkie. The Cubs Fan have the best lucha site.

There so many matches you can choose from.

Triplemania, was a good show. La Parka vs. La Park is my match of the year, I love the atmosphere and hate between the two. Not about respect, it's about hate. No shaking the hands or none of that bs.

Ignore Lucha Libre USA if you want to talk real lucha libre. Lucha Libre USA is ok at times but it's nothing like wrestling in Mexico.


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## New Blood

USAUSA1 said:


> Everybody knows am a lucha junkie. The Cubs Fan have the best lucha site.
> 
> There so many matches you can choose from.
> 
> Triplemania, was a good show. La Parka vs. La Park is my match of the year, I love the atmosphere and hate between the two. Not about respect, it's about hate. No shaking the hands or none of that bs.
> 
> Ignore Lucha Libre USA if you want to talk real lucha libre. Lucha Libre USA is ok at times but it's nothing like wrestling in Mexico.


Do you know anywhere where I can watch the match? No one here uploads any lucha. I saw something on Youtube but it was incomplete and some used a camera to tape to the TV screen which is horrible.

I haven't heard anything good about Lucha Libre USA.


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## adri17

I found one page where the match is uploaded with the aftermath, but if you don't speak spanish you won't understand anything. If you want and it's not considered spam I can post the vids here or PM ya...


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## New Blood

I found the links to TripleMania. Can't wait to watch it tonight.

Need to catch up on CMLL and IWRG.

TripleMania was probably the funnest show I've seen all year. Miles better than WrestleMania. Even the less than great matches were fun except for the tag title match as that was too slow and unorganized in my opinion. The main event is a legit MOTYC. What great heat and drama in that one.

I now think IWRG will get promotion of the year from me.


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## USAUSA1

I was watching 2010 VDE part 1 today and Aerostar hit some amazing spots that has to be seen to believe. I actually enjoy Silver King vs. Vampiro vs. Wagner. 

IWRG and AAA relationship has been great this year. Imagine if TNA and ROH did shows together.


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## The Great Maijin

I love AAA. CMLL just doesn't excite me. AAA is more like an american organization plus they have some of my favorite wrestlers there. The only person I kinda like is Mistico but after a while he gets repetitive.


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## USAUSA1

You missing out on La Sombra and Dorada in CMLL. They with Jushin Lyger,Rey Bucanero,and Mistico is the only guys worth going out your way to see in CMLL. Can't wait for the 14 man cage match on the 3rd.


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## New Blood

I just received the Top 20 Lucha Libre Matches of the 90s DVD from IVP today for my birthday and I'm loving every bit of it.

*El Felino vs. Ciclon Ramirez [CMLL 5/23/93]*
Great match with fantastic mat work and then later on even greater high spots. The tope from Ramirez into the crowd was mark out worthy. I don't understand the ending of the match as I don't know the storyline between Felino and ***** Casas but it was all good either way.

*Rey Mysterio Jr./Super Calo/Winners vs. Psicosis/Heavy Metal/Picudo [AAA 1/29/93]*
This is a spectacular match even with the nutty finish although I'm more forgiving to a match that has a bad finish but it awesome in the rest. Psicosis is a bumping machine. All the rudos were amazing in this. I also marked for Heavy Metal's Testament shirt.


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## The Great Maijin

USAUSA1 said:


> You missing out on La Sombra and Dorada in CMLL. They with Jushin Lyger,Rey Bucanero,and Mistico is the only guys worth going out your way to see in CMLL. Can't wait for the 14 man cage match on the 3rd.


they're cool 2 but last time i watched cmll there was a few other guys who had basically the same style as any of the three men. it gets repetitive.


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## New Blood

*16-Man Cibernetico Match [CMLL 11/26/99]*
If this wasn't so clipped, this would have probably been an amazing match. But what was there, it was a lot of fun. The last couple eliminations were great too such as Ultimo Guerrero doing a top rope inverted suplex to Tarzan Boy and then the spring between Guerrero and Santo.


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## #1UndertakerFan

I watch Lucha all the time i love Lucha mask warriors its a great show its on MTV 2 check your local listings its very face spaced and the storylines are awesome.


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## New Blood

#1UndertakerFan said:


> I watch Lucha all the time i love Lucha mask warriors its a great show its on MTV 2 check your local listings its very face spaced and the storylines are awesome.


I prefer the real thing.

*Mr. Niebla vs. Dr. Wagner Jr. [CMLL 9/3/97]*
I really liked this one. You could just feel the hate between these two and it really helped as they threw everything but the kitchen sink at each other in terms of maneuvers but it didn't feel like overkill or moves for the sake of moves.


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## USAUSA1

New Blood said:


> *Mr. Niebla vs. Dr. Wagner Jr. [CMLL 9/3/97]*
> I really liked this one. You could just feel the hate between these two and it really helped as they threw everything but the kitchen sink at each other in terms of maneuvers but it didn't feel like overkill or moves for the sake of moves.


I totally forgot about that match, I have to re-watch it one day.


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## New Blood

*Electro Shock vs. Dr. Wagner Jr. [AAA - 6/6/10 TripleMania]*
I was excited for this match as it was finally one of the main events and especially after a terrible mid card. My excitement soon turned into disappointment as this was a very sluggish and sloppy match. There were so many dead spots to this match that it felt twice as long. It almost seemed like neither man really gave a shit out there in the ring and just hastily threw together a match.

*L.A. Park vs. La Parka [AAA - 6/6/10 TripleMania]*
Now we're talking! Fantastic match with tons of heat, hate and great brawling. It's great to see La Parka continue being a great bumper. Although the finish isn't amazing, it still doesn't take away from the greatness of what transpired before. Chair shots and table spots galore and given a lot of time.


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## GOD OF CUNT

The segunda caida blog in the original post is one of the best wrestling blogs on the net, btw. 

IWRG has by far been my favourite promotion this year, and Black Terry Jr's handheld footage is awesome since you actually get to hear the crowd. There's never been any point where I think AAA was all that good, and current day CMLL does nothing for me, either. The only current lucha I can be bothered with is the indy stuff like IWRG and spot shows in scummy ghetto arenas with Navarro and pals. Black Terry is also the best in the world right now. Shameless plug, but I've talked about a bunch of 2010 IWRG in my own blog (link's in my sig), too.

Check out some 1990 and 1997 CMLL. Two of the best years any promotion has ever had. 1990 El Dandy is particularly outstanding. Dude doesn't get much praise at all on here but he's legit a top 5 ever guy for me.


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## New Blood

*Black Terry/***** Navarro/Dr. Cerebro vs. Solar I/Zatura/Suicida [IWRG - 1/28/10]*
Wow! This was phenomenal! Some of the best lucha mat wrestling that I've seen in quite some time. The Solar/Navarro and Terry/Zatura parts are amazing as everything they do builds off each other in each fall and some really nifty submission work. Cerebro/Suicida do some great acrobatic work in there too to bring in a different flavor to the match. This is a definite runner as a MOTYC. It's too bad no one here except for a couple of us even know and talk about this promotion and these luchadores (or lucha libre in general). This is also not for the casual wrestling fan but for the serious wrestling fan.

*Suicida/Zatura vs. Traumas [IWRG - 1/14]*
Holy heated lucha tag match Batman! Trauma II is one stiff bastard as he takes out Suicida and just grinds him to dust in the first caida. That reverse figure four was really nifty as well. The second caida was especially fun as it breaks down into a brawl on the outside but unfortunately it was too short. By the third caida, they were doing some really great traditional lucha flying with some ground work with a fun double pin/restart of the match until we got a winner. I'm having so much fun watching these matches. This promotion is continuing to surprise the hell out of me just like the weekly free WWE TV is on occasion.


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## patrickshelley

*Extreme Tiger/ KENTA Vs. Jack Evans/ Teddy Hart Vs. Nicho/ Joe Lider - AAA*
Lot of fun in this match, btw its a ladder match


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## TheAce

> Extreme Tiger/ KENTA Vs. Jack Evans/ Teddy Hart Vs. Nicho/ Joe Lider - AAA
> Lot of fun in this match, btw its a ladder match


I hated this match, sloppy, bad spots, botches and Joe Lider. Ewww.


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## The Great Maijin

some of the IWRG stuff is boring to me. Random submissions isnt exciting.


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## seabs

*Cant believe someone enjoyed that ladder match. It's bloody awful and there's no other way to put it.*


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## smitlick

New Blood said:


> *L.A. Park vs. La Parka [AAA - 6/6/10 TripleMania]*
> Now we're talking! Fantastic match with tons of heat, hate and great brawling. It's great to see La Parka continue being a great bumper. Although the finish isn't amazing, it still doesn't take away from the greatness of what transpired before. Chair shots and table spots galore and given a lot of time.



Just watched Triplemania and watched this (My first Lucha event and it being 4 hours probably didnt help the ratings)

*AAA - Triplemania XVIII*

*1. 8-Way TLC Match for the AAA Mini's Title*
Mini Abismo ***** vs Octagoncito vs Mascarita Sagrada vs Mini Chessman vs Mini Psicosis vs Mini Charly Manson vs Mini Histeria vs Mascarita Divina
**1/2

*2. Loser Becomes A Maid for the Winning Team for a Month*
Faby Apache, Mary Apache & Cynthia Moreno vs Sexy Star, Jennifer Blake & Rain
**
*
3. 4-Way Elimination Tag Team Match for the AAA Tag Team Titles* 
Go Shiozaki & Atsushi Aoki vs Nicho El Millonario & Joe Lider vs Beer Money vs Silver King & Ultimo Gladiador
***

*4. Steel Cage Escape Match*
Octagon, Heavy Metal & Pimpinela vs Chessman, Hernandez & Alex Koslov
**3/4

*5. Hardcore Tag Match with the Losers/Seconds Hair on The Line*
Cibernetico & Abyss vs Vampiro & Zorro
*3/4
What a fucking awful match....

*6. 4-Way Elimination Match for the AAA Cruiserweight Title*
Extreme Tiger vs NOSAWA Rongai vs Christopher Daniels vs Jack Evans
***1/4

*7. AAA World Heavyweight Title Match*
Electroshock vs Dr. Wagner Jr
***

*8. Battle of La Parka - Winner gets full rights to the name La Parka* 
La Parka vs L.A. PARK
***1/2


The Hardcore Tag Match is just horrendous.



*Viva La Lucha - Revolution*

*1. NWA Mexico Lightweight Title Match*
Turbo vs Black Thunder
**1/2
Its Excalibur... What a good idea that was booking him to do commentary.

2. Mr Aguila vs TJP
***

*3. PWR Heavyweight Title Steel Cage Match* 
Blue Demon Jr vs Oliver John
**1/2

4. El Hijo de Rey Misterio & Groon XXX vs El Oriental & Super Nova
**1/4

*5. XLAW Heavyweight Title Match*
La Park vs Sabu
**1/4
Oddly clipped and displayed... Not what you'd expect from a PPV

*6. Extreme Five Way Elimination Match*
X-Fly vs Charly Manson vs Supreme vs Halloween vs Damien 666
**3/4

Didn't bother with the extra match (it was only the last fall of the match anyway). Not very good with Super Nova injuring himself in match 4 and the rest of the card just being really shite plus Larry Rivera is possibly the most annoying man on commentary ever. Worse even then Ian Rottens kid. Aguila vs TJP is ok but the rest is very average.

Any differing opinions on the Viva La Lucha show because im not in a mood for shitty Lucha stuff so i may have been harsh on some of the *s.​


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## New Blood

I just finished the 6 disc Lucha set from IVP videos and that is one that everyone should pick up. Some really astounding matches in that. I wish there were more Lucha comps around. I would love to see some 80's lucha as well.


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## USAUSA1

I'm into WWF 1980's right now but I got a chance to watch the recent Volador vs. Mistico match from two weeks ago, AWESOME match. You should track it down.


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## New Blood

USAUSA1 said:


> I'm into WWF 1980's right now but I got a chance to watch the recent Volador vs. Mistico match from two weeks ago, AWESOME match. You should track it down.


I'll have to look for that.


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## Yeah1993

Favourite luch amatches (for the hell of it):

-El Hijo del Santo v ***** Casas (CMLL 9/19/97)
-El Hijo del Santo v ***** Casas (WWA 7/18/87)
-El Hijo del Santo v ***** Casas v El Dandy (CMLL 12/6/96)
-Blue Panther v Super Astro (AAA 10/9/92)
-El Hijo del Santo v Blue Panther (Arena Coliseo Monterrey 4/9/00)
-El Dandy v ***** Casas (CMLL 7/5/92)
-El Hijo del Santo v Espanto Jr (Arena Coliseo Monterrey 8/31/86)
-El Hijo del Santo v Blue Panther (Arena Coliseo Monterrey 5/28/00)
-El Hijo del Santo v El Felino (Arena Coliseo Monterrey 10/18/98)
-Rey Misterio Jr v Psicosis (AAA 9/22/95)
-El Hijo del Santo/***** Casas v Averno/Mephisto (CMLL 12/16/05)

tons more great ones I've seen plus dozens I haven't. IWRG have produced some awesomeness this year too.


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## Horselover Fat

Yeah1993 said:


> Favourite luch amatches (for the hell of it):
> 
> -El Hijo del Santo v ***** Casas (CMLL 9/19/97)
> -El Hijo del Santo v ***** Casas (WWA 7/18/87)
> -El Hijo del Santo v ***** Casas v El Dandy (CMLL 12/6/96)
> -Blue Panther v Super Astro (AAA 10/9/92)
> -El Hijo del Santo v Blue Panther (Arena Coliseo Monterrey 4/9/00)
> -El Dandy v ***** Casas (CMLL 7/5/92)
> -El Hijo del Santo v Espanto Jr (Arena Coliseo Monterrey 8/31/86)
> -El Hijo del Santo v Blue Panther (Arena Coliseo Monterrey 5/28/00)
> -El Hijo del Santo v El Felino (Arena Coliseo Monterrey 10/18/98)
> -Rey Misterio Jr v Psicosis (AAA 9/22/95)
> -El Hijo del Santo/***** Casas v Averno/Mephisto (CMLL 12/16/05)
> 
> tons more great ones I've seen plus dozens I haven't. IWRG have produced some awesomeness this year too.




can you go into detail on the felino match


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## Yeah1993

Nah my memory would be a bit fuzzy. Had some real great mat work and dives IIRC.


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## Horselover Fat

Yeah1993 said:


> Nah my memory would be a bit fuzzy. Had some real great mat work and dives IIRC.


The La Parka vs. Villaño IV match I saw on Nitro the other day had both of those things too.


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## That Guy

Yeah1993 said:


> Favourite luch amatches (for the hell of it):
> 
> -El Hijo del Santo v ***** Casas (CMLL 9/19/97)
> -El Hijo del Santo v ***** Casas (WWA 7/18/87)
> -El Hijo del Santo v ***** Casas v El Dandy (CMLL 12/6/96)
> -Blue Panther v Super Astro (AAA 10/9/92)
> -El Hijo del Santo v Blue Panther (Arena Coliseo Monterrey 4/9/00)
> -El Dandy v ***** Casas (CMLL 7/5/92)
> -El Hijo del Santo v Espanto Jr (Arena Coliseo Monterrey 8/31/86)
> -El Hijo del Santo v Blue Panther (Arena Coliseo Monterrey 5/28/00)
> -El Hijo del Santo v El Felino (Arena Coliseo Monterrey 10/18/98)
> *-Rey Misterio Jr v Psicosis (AAA 9/22/95)*
> -El Hijo del Santo/***** Casas v Averno/Mephisto (CMLL 12/16/05)
> 
> tons more great ones I've seen plus dozens I haven't. IWRG have produced some awesomeness this year too.


I don't get Lucha much in my country, so that's the only one i've seen. I'll probably watch the rest one time but anyone who hasn't seen that match really should.


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## smitlick

*Viva La Lucha - eXtreme Rebellion - 27/8/2010*

1. Scorpio Sky vs TJP - **1/2
*2. #1 Contender for the PWR Minis Title -* Pequeno Pierroth vs Mini Dragon - *1/2
3. Diabolic, Thunderwolf & Golden Scorpion vs Cyanide, Vintage Dragon & Bionico - **
4. Phoenix Star & Zokre vs The Young Bucks - **1/2
*5. Steel Cage Match for the PWR Tag Team Titles -* The Border Patrol vs El Hijo De Rey Misterio & Super Crazy - **3/4
6. Vaquero Fantasma vs Blue Demon Jr - **1/2

Very average shit. I think the longest match being the main event was around 14 minutes long. They really didn't give any time to the show and just show some awful shit. I'd hate to think people actually bought this.


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## Yeah1993

Looked through my list and I forgot Villano III/Atlantis 17/3/00. Match of the decade contender right there.


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## Horselover Fat

yeah1993 whats your favorite lucha libre venue


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## Yeah1993

I don;t have favourite venues


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## New Blood

I need to hunt down the MS-1 vs. Sangre Chicana matches from the 80s.

I can't wait for the DVDVR 80s Lucha set to come out in the next year. There's going to be a lot of goodness. Hopefully with that, it'll make some classic lucha more available in the community.

One of my complaints about wrestling forums is that there are a lot of puro available but not as much lucha available. People are missing out on some legitimately great stuff.

Thanks to the Segunda Caida blog, I found this ultra rare bloody chain match from Brazil in the 80s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJNRTfHMpTA
This is a chain match from Brazil and is a gritty, violent, blood drenched masterpiece. This has the really great Taxi Driver feel that the best late 70's/early 80's matches have, dark and grimy with two guys trying to murder each other. The match actually begins with some cool leglock based mat wrestling, before devolving into both guys punching and biting each other in open wounds. Aquiles is a really stiff worker and there are points where he is justing tearing Mr. Argentina's leg up with chain shots. He also does a Pirata Morgan level blade job at the end of this match where it looks like parts of his scalp were falling off. By the end they need to be separated by the cops, and it felt like a match that required a police stoppage. Awesome, I need to watch more Brazilian wrestling.


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## andremt9

New Blood said:


> Thanks to the Segunda Caida blog, I found this ultra rare bloody chain match from Brazil in the 80s.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJNRTfHMpTA
> This is a chain match from Brazil and is a gritty, violent, blood drenched masterpiece. This has the really great Taxi Driver feel that the best late 70's/early 80's matches have, dark and grimy with two guys trying to murder each other. The match actually begins with some cool leglock based mat wrestling, before devolving into both guys punching and biting each other in open wounds. Aquiles is a really stiff worker and there are points where he is justing tearing Mr. Argentina's leg up with chain shots. He also does a Pirata Morgan level blade job at the end of this match where it looks like parts of his scalp were falling off. By the end they need to be separated by the cops, and it felt like a match that required a police stoppage. Awesome, I need to watch more Brazilian wrestling.


This is a classic match here in Brazil, although wrestling isn't over here like it used to be, every wrestling fan praises this match as one of the stiffest matches of all time.


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## USAUSA1

andremt9 said:


> This is a classic match here in Brazil, although wrestling isn't over here like it used to be, every wrestling fan praises this match as one of the stiffest matches of all time.


You guys have 100% Lucha in Argentina down south. That's all I know. I have no idea about Brazil wrestling.


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## Greek_Tornado

Anyone has seen the last two IWRG shows? I don't know, I expected to see good lucha matches, but the shows let me down big time.


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## GOD OF CUNT

New Blood said:


> I need to hunt down the MS-1 vs. Sangre Chicana matches from the 80s.
> 
> I can't wait for the DVDVR 80s Lucha set to come out in the next year. There's going to be a lot of goodness. Hopefully with that, it'll make some classic lucha more available in the community.


The MS-1/Chicana match is tremendous. The VQ isn't very good, but if anything it adds to how gritty the match is. It's like human cockfighting. Bucket loads of blood as well.

If you're looking for some more 80s lucha, search out the Jerry Estrada/Javier Cruz match from 10/20/89. Probably one of my top 3 favourite matches ever. Estrada is fucking loaded and can barely stand (always the case with Jerry, really), and at one point he slips on the apron and careens face first into the ring post. Match is a bloodbath. Also the match that made me a massive Estrada fan. Cruz is awesome too, btw.


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## New Blood

I just found the MS-1/Chicana match but having a bit of a rough time trying find Estrada/Cruz. The luchadores could brawl just as great as the guys from Memphis in the 80s. I love it.


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## Caligula

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SupNfETAeFw


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## New Blood

CaliGula45 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SupNfETAeFw


You Tube was my last resort. I would like to get either a hard copy or a download link for my hard drive. I came across a link but it was expired.


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## USAUSA1

Lucha just not the same anymore. AAA and CMLL been having a decent to bad year and it's November. My lucha match of the year is La Parka vs. LA PARK based on the importance and heat. It reminded me of old big lucha matches. Panther vs. Villano V from two years ago is an example of old school lucha with importance and just amazing heat. That is lucha at it best. Like the Taker vs. HBK Mania matches, technically those matches were not the best matches of the year workrate wise but the importance,emotional connection with the crowd mixed with pretty damn good wrestling push it over the top to make it classic. That is LUCHA LIBRE at best.

Past 5 years best lucha matches from the big two.
Ultimo Guerrero vs. Mistico February 2005 mano a mano match.
La Parka vs. Mesias when he had the mask,mask vs. mask
Mesias vs. Cibernetico Rey De Reyes(yeah, the build up is what made this special,everything went right) Personal choice
Blue Panther vs. Villano V
La Park vs. La Parka Triplemania
Wagner vs. Mesias Triplemania (BEST LUCHA MATCH IN THE PAST 5 YEARS)
Mistico vs. Black Warrior Mask vs. Mask
Mistico vs. Perro Jr, forgot the date
Santo,Mistico,Casas vs. Ultimo Guerrero,Black Warrior and Atlantis

There are more matches but these one's stand out the most because of their importance.

Mesias and Mistico is definitely my favorite lucha wrestlers in the past 5 years. Mesias more so because he can play babyface and heel. Technically and workrate wise, Rey Bucanero is the best wrestler in lucha


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## Caligula

New Blood said:


> You Tube was my last resort. I would like to get either a hard copy or a download link for my hard drive. I came across a link but it was expired.


I could probably upload it but it would take a week to find the disc and remember to up it


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## GOD OF CUNT

New Blood said:


> You Tube was my last resort. I would like to get either a hard copy or a download link for my hard drive. I came across a link but it was expired.


The only link I found for it expired months ago as well. I've got it on DVD, but I can't rip anything because my laptop is trash.



USAUSA1 said:


> Mesias and Mistico is definitely my favorite lucha wrestlers in the past 5 years. Mesias more so because he can play babyface and heel. Technically and workrate wise, Rey Bucanero is the best wrestler in lucha


I don't know how much IWRG you watch, but right now I'd say Black Terry is easily the best wrestler in Mexico. Actually fuck that, Terry's the best in the world right now. Some of the random trios matches with guys like Terry, Navarro, Solar, etc. from dingy little arenas across Mexico that you find on youtube are so far ahead of anything from AAA and CMLL that it isn't even funny.


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## New Blood

The only criticisms that I've read thrown at IWRG is that it might be "too technical" and I don't know if I agree. Some of the best matches from them have incredible heat and brawling in it.

I have to repeat myself once more, lucha brawls are the best in my opinion. I think they keep to the old school method of keeping them brutal and short. When I mean brutal, I don't mean CZW or Big Japan type stuff but what would look like a barroom brawl. I think a lot of promotions these days get the brawls wrong as they [ROH and others as a big example] have overly long brawls and it takes away the realism. I've never heard of a brawl being 20+ minutes long and being any good. Memphis also got it right.


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## USAUSA1

IWRG matches lack importance. The matches are great but just like with the greatest Ring of Honor and indies matches I don't feel emotionally connected. Lucha Libre is all about emotions. ***** Navarro and Dr.Cerebro is just as good if not better than Black Terry. All three guys are great but Bucanero is still the best in the game from a technical standpoint.

Black Terry Jr is doing a good job putting IWRG stuff out there. He is more ahead of time than AAA and CMLL with the world wide web. Though AAA has been doing a good job recently.


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## Yeah1993

bumping this with some Santo matches;

El Hijo del Santo/Solomon Grondy/Rayo de Jalisco Jr v Perro Aguayo/Mascara Ano 2000/Cien Caras (EMLL 9/9/90)
--This was just overly *too much* fun in the best way possible. Went for like twenty minutes I think and had me hooked the entire time with not a single second boring, not one second. It kind of opened my eyes to a couple thing too, like Perro being a damn entertaining guy to watch. Right when the bell was rung he had already gone straight for Santo and Santo was paying him back the whole match almost ignoring his partners and just singling him out to full-force rip him apart. I always thought Perro was a Bruiser Brody-type who was awkward with selling and barely moved, but he was pretty nimble and bumped well. Going to have to watch some of his simgles stuff. Another guy I thought was impressive was Grondy, he's fat, like, fatter than Mark Henry fat, but he was doing all he could to squash the rudo team and make the crowd cheer. He even did this neat little dropkick to send Ano 2000 to the outside and then faked a jump over the ropes. It had bezerk crazy stuff like that consistantly, hell the second fall ended in a total referee-ignoring all-over-the-place brawl with trumpet music in the damn background. Cien Caras had his mask taken off by Jalisco too which caused him to have his face covered by a black clothe and scamper out of the arena. This is the sort of "why I watch Lucha Libre" match.

El Hijo del Santo/Eddy Guerrero/El Satanico v El Brazo/Brazo de Oro/Brazo de Plata (EMLL 16/9/90)
--El Brazo was awesome in this here. If he wasn't jumping on Santo with his fat glutes he was doing dive presses to try to kill El Satanico. Everyone else was great, too, but he was on fire. Loved it when all three Brazos grabbed Santo in a mocking manner to pose for the video camera and then tried to take his mask off. Santo's like Liger, man he'll kick the crap out of you for trying to his mask off, then he'll dive out onto you because he fucking can. Eddy was already good in 1990 and he was doing a really good job at playing the young guy trying to make a name and stay competitive with everyone else. Felt like every wrestler had some role to play for the match and it couldn't have been much better. 

El Hijo del Santo v Brazo de Oro (UWA 13/1/91)
--Yay this holds up. The first and second falls aren't anything "classic" or anything but watching Santo beat Oro bloody with the ring post after losing the first fall is an awesome way to spent a few minutes. In the first fall Oro was great at making Santo look vulnerable and almost pathetic, and in the second it was pretty much swapped around with Santito bursting into a different gear and kncoking Oro senseless. Third fall is probably what you'd expect from mask vs. hair match, switching it to "classic" levels of awesome, full with all the near falls, planchas and dives you could hope for in a match like this. Oro's no 180-pounder like Santo, either, when he dives he takes his whole gut with him and really lays into you. No fancy mat work in this one, just two pro wrestlers beating each other bad and making you forgot they're only 5'7" apiece. One of the best matches of 1991 imo.

***** Casas v El Hijo del Santo (UWA 3/1/91)
--"Perfectly in sync" is an understatement for how good these two are together, they make everything they do look so effortless without any screw-ups or botches, they're bordering on Flair/Steamboat levels. Some the things Santo would do looks impossible for a human being to pull off, and doing it with such flow and connectivity with his other moves, it blows your freaking mind. Pretty different match from some of their others, this was almost all submission-based work with near-fall stuff near the end. No ***** being a cheat and trying to mock Santo, no Santo trying to rip out *****'s hair. They just wanted to be the better man and wrestler and beat the other cleanly. ***** getting the clean win was unexpected for me, too.


----------



## USAUSA1

Santo is still awesome when he wants to be but his EGO is just off the hook and wasted good years arguing with CMLL and AAA. I think Santo and Latin Lover are the two most disappointing wrestlers in the past 10 years. Both guys have gimmicks that can draw well and both guys are extremely talented but they make every excuse to stay out the ring. It's one thing if you didn't want to wrestle again but these guys like to bash lucha libre in the process.


----------



## Caligula

USAUSA1 said:


> Santo is still awesome when he wants to be but his EGO is just off the hook and wasted good years arguing with CMLL and AAA. I think Santo and Latin Lover are the two most disappointing wrestlers in the past 10 years. Both guys have gimmicks that can draw well and both guys are extremely talented but they make every excuse to stay out the ring. It's one thing if you didn't want to wrestle again but these guys like to bash lucha libre in the process.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W709d9i_DDc


----------



## lic05

USAUSA1 said:


> Santo is still awesome when he wants to be but his EGO is just off the hook and wasted good years arguing with CMLL and AAA. I think Santo and Latin Lover are the two most disappointing wrestlers in the past 10 years. Both guys have gimmicks that can draw well and both guys are extremely talented but they make every excuse to stay out the ring. It's one thing if you didn't want to wrestle again but these guys like to bash lucha libre in the process.


I agree with the Latin Lover part, he could draw decently on CMLL but he's more focused on being a TV celebrity now.


----------



## New Blood

I can't wait for the Death Valley Driver 80's Lucha set to come out. It was originally supposed to be released after the voting for the Texas set but I guess the guys who are compiling it hit a bump in the road so it looks like the All Japan set will be up next. Guess we'll have to wait another couple years before its own. When it will come out, thankfully there will be more 80s Lucha goodness that will be available.


----------



## Yeah1993

USAUSA1 said:


> Santo is still awesome when he wants to be but his EGO is just off the hook and wasted good years arguing with CMLL and AAA. *I think Santo and Latin Lover are the two most disappointing wrestlers in the past 10 years.* Both guys have gimmicks that can draw well and both guys are extremely talented but they make every excuse to stay out the ring. It's one thing if you didn't want to wrestle again but these guys like to bash lucha libre in the process.


Santo's backstage attitude or whatever hardly interests me. Not sure what the bolded part means precisely, Latin Lover, well, Idc about, but Santo's had had some downright excellent matches since 2000. In fact his first match with Blue Panther in 2000 I'd say is the best wrestling match I've seen since, 1995 maybe (as in best match that happened in 95, not match I watched in 95, where I was two. .


----------



## Horselover Fat

yeah1993 would you go to the santo coffee shop if you were in ciudad de méxico


----------



## Yeah1993

Sure no reason not to.


----------



## Horselover Fat

what would you do if santo was there in a business suit going over the balance sheet


----------



## Yeah1993

pretend I know Spanish.


----------



## Horselover Fat




----------



## Yeah1993

I like that photo with the dolphin better.


----------



## USAUSA1

It affects me because he's hardly on television to push his father name and legacy. He can be in AAA,CMLL or even IWRG. The last time I seen him was at Triplemania 2009 and now he's suing AAA for putting him on a dvd cover or something like that. He complains about AAA and CMLL but you can't change nothing from the outside. Fans want to see him while he can still go.

I give Latin Lover credit for at least still doing shows but he like to play with AAA as well. AAA was about to push him as the top tecnico recently but of course Latin disappears as always.

Lucha Libre is different from the rest of the world. Fans don't care about the other shit. Fans cares about tradition. If Santo return back to Arena Mexico for a good year, it would help them out a lot. Fans in Mexico want to see these guys in either CMLL or AAA. The reason why Santo independent shows have failed in the past 3 years is because fans in Mexico doesn't except that. Same with Blue Demon Jr and NWA Mexico. Perro Del Mal is only staying in business because of AAA. That relationship saved the promotion. Wagner,Perro Jr,LA PARK, Silver King learn the hard way and realize to keep their name and reputation valuable they have to join either AAA or CMLL. The days of Santo and Blue Demon doing an independent show drawing thousands is over. With WWE hitting the market, AAA(partnership with IWRG and Perro Del Mal) and CMLL, independents is damn near dead.


----------



## New Blood

The thing I love about Lucha and old school territory wrestling is how unpretentious it is. Both rely on tradition, excitement and hot crowds. I have a big problem with indie crowds these days as the fans are just so up their asses and shit on everything or try to put themselves over all the time instead of just watching the show. Another part is the wrestling itself. While I do enjoy technical wrestling, I'll take a great brawl or an exciting classic lucha match over a lot of ROH's stuff anymore.

I was looking at an updated list of my favorite matches from all promotions and a trend that ran through the whole list was intensity and excitement. Probably why matches like Chicana/MS1 and El Hijo del Santo/***** Casas showed up really high. Match that with Stan Hansen possibly being my favorite wrestler and you got one hell of a list.


----------



## New Blood

Everyone needs to remember that ANTICHRIST IS NUMBER 1!!!!!


----------



## Oda Nobunaga

Has anyone seen WWC (World Wrestling Council) on WAPA America? It's on Saturdays and Sundays in the afternoon. From the little I've seen of it, I can't bring myself to like it. It's worse than AAA on Galavision.


----------



## New Blood

I don't get the channel as it looks like a regional one. Plus, I have no interest in watching WWC after the Bruiser Brody murder.


----------



## USAUSA1

New Blood said:


> I don't get the channel as it looks like a regional one. Plus, I have no interest in watching WWC after the Bruiser Brody murder.


That happen so long ago, longer than Owen Hart tragedy.

Cubs Fan post WWC and all LUCHA shows on his website every week. WWC sucks,it's extremely boring to me. Week of 11-13-2010 lucha libre downloads http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/?p=9813


----------



## smitlick

*Viva La Lucha - Retribution*

1. Cosmico & Celestial vs Mr Aguilita & Talisman
**1/2

2. Elimination Tag Match
Black Terry & Solar vs ***** Navarro & Ricky Santana
**

3. El Dynamita Rico Dynamite vs Famous B
*1/2

4. Pesadilla, Radge & Heddi Karaoui vs Drastik Boy, Konami & Naruto
**1/2

5. PWR Junior Heavyweight Title Match
Mr Wrestling IV vs Derek Sanders
**1/2

6. Hijo De Rey Misterio, Hijo De LA Park & El Angel vs Black Warrior, Bestia 666 & TJP
**1/2

7. Three Way Hardcore War
Supreme vs Damien 666 vs X Fly
**

8. PWR Heavyweight Title Match
Oliver John vs Blue Demon Jr
***


----------



## New Blood

Are there any good CMLL and AAA matches from this year that isn't L.A. Park vs. La Parka?

I've been really behind on this years wrestling as I've been mostly watching old Territory, old Puro and old Lucha when I felt like watching wrestling.


----------



## Yeah1993

From what I hear Lucha's been pretty hard to sit through this year. The Indy promotion IWRG had plenty of great stuff that are easy MOTYCs if haven't watched those though. Black Terry is a WOTYC.

About to go on a Blue Panther kick. :hb


----------



## New Blood

Black Terry's been all kinds of incredible this year.

Just watched Mistico vs. Volador Jr. from February 5th and it was great. Rudo Mistico is quite something to behold and a red hot crowd. Not too much action in the first 2 falls as it's just Mistico playing a chickenshit heel and ripping Volador's mask off and taunting the crowd. Mistico also does something in the 2nd fall that I could see Eddie Guerrero doing. The 3rd fall is pretty fun as they get into the match and pulled off some good arm drags and such. A fun match that really helps with a rudo teasing the hell out of the crowd and doing some really low things and Valador putting on a very good performance.


----------



## New Blood

*Blue Panther/El Valiente/El Metro vs. Averno/Mephisto/Virus [CMLL 2/6/10]*
A borderline high end match. Just when you thought that Blue Panther was going to be stale, he pulls out a great performance. His exchanges with Averno is great stuff. The match also got quite a bit of time. Too bad Valiente and Virus did not get too much time in the first fall and if they extended it a couple minutes longer, it would be something really amazing. Valiente does hit a spectacular double jump moonsault into the front row in the third fall. This may rank pretty high up as far as best lucha matches of the year.


----------



## USAUSA1

Perro vs. Mesias was extremely fun.

You need to track down La Sombra or Dorada matches.

Latin Lover just return to CMLL,again. How long will that last?


----------



## Caligula

Casas and Liger had a pretty good match in NJ this year ftr


----------



## New Blood

People need to familiarize themselves with one Black Terry.

http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2010/06/complete-and-accurate-black-terry.html


----------



## Caligula

thanks I've never seen him before


----------



## New Blood

The Powerslam Top 50 Wrestlers have been released for this year and once again, no luchadores are mentioned. It's weird when a growing demographic of wrestling fans are hispanic and the oldest promotion in the world as well as one of the biggest, CMLL, you'd think that it'd get some coverage.

When you're a magazine that's supposed to cover all wrestling and give attention to the indies and Puro (which I love) but totally ignore a large part of wrestling is egregious.

Another question, I've been looking on The Cubs Fan page for quite a while but can't find any download links. Is there a page that I'm missing?


----------



## New Blood

I don't know why I keep giving AAA more chances. Besides one good trios match with Jack Evans that went half an hour, the wrestling is sloppy and the product is just uninteresting to look at. It seems like they have to show Konnan's face every 5 minutes in the 2 hour show.

I wish Galavision on my network was airing CMLL or even better, IWRG.


----------



## The Great Maijin

USAUSA1 said:


> Perro vs. Mesias was extremely fun.
> 
> You need to track down La Sombra or Dorada matches.
> 
> Latin Lover just return to CMLL,again. How long will that last?


Really? it looked like Perro didnt care in that match. I swear he was on something. At one point in the match Mesisas bascially irish whipped himself into the corner.


----------



## seabs

USAUSA1 said:


> Perro vs. Mesias was extremely fun.
> 
> *You need to track down La Sombra or Dorada matches.*
> 
> Latin Lover just return to CMLL,again. How long will that last?


*What Sombra/Dorada CMLL matches would you reccomend? Both guys really impressed me in New Japan this year but I dont really watch modern day lucha.*


----------



## patrickshelley

thanks for that Black Terry link it looks great


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Terry's been ridiculous this year. Far and away the best wrestler in the world in 2010. 

People need to watch more Chico Che as well.


----------



## New Blood

Check out this match and the review: IWRG + hair vs. mask + bloody brawling + not worrying about putting on a five star match = greatness.

http://lucharesu.blogspot.com/2010/11/project-33-match-5-comando-*****-vs.html


----------



## New Blood

Dr. Cerebro's been all kinds of great this year. I heard his match with El Hijo del Diablo back in March is something to behold.


----------



## New Blood

Everyone should check this match out. One of the best IWRG matches of the year. As no surprise, Black Terry is involved.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW7EIj7D0oU


----------



## New Blood

****** Casas vs. Charly Manson [CMLL 10/15]*
An excellent carry job of a shitty AAA wrestler by one of the greatest wrestlers ever, ***** Casas. After you see his performance, you'll understand why he's one of the greatest and still is great. In the first fall, Casas takes a stiff boot to the face and then shows us some fighting spirit himself. This match also has a heel ref and that comes into play in the first and last fall. The second fall was too short though. The third fall is long and although picking up the pace, also does alot to further the storytelling and the ref does his heelish schtich. The performance of Casas in this match is one of the best of the year.

*Los Traumas vs. Suicida/Zatura [IWRG 1/14]*
The match starts off fantastic with some mat work between Trauma II and Suicida which turns into a slugfest. Quite something different then the more "polite" (lack of a better term) form of wrestling in other IWRG matches. Suicida puts II into a mean armlock and this is no hold and release type thing. He wants to punish his opponent. I love how II counters out of submissions with punches to the face. Trauma I's knee strikes are pretty brutal. The brawl during the first fall was great. The second fall showcased a brutal rudo beatdown which featured more of Trauma I's vicious knee strikes. My only complaint is that it felt that Suicida made a comeback way too soon as if he was not the one being beaten down for several minutes. But this is still amazing and a MOTYC.

*Black Terry/Dr. Cerebro vs. ****** Loco/El Hijo del Diablo [IWRG 1/24]*
This match knows its way to my heart when it starts off with Terry and Cerebro waiting at the entrance for their opponents to come out so they can attack them but little did they know that they came out through the crowd armed with steel chairs. What happens next would fit right in with some of the great Memphis brawls. You got Terry and Cerebro bleeding early and a hot crowd going nuts. What's not to love? Love the back and forth brawling. Just when I thought it couldn't get any crazier, ****** Loco busts out that damn cactus to nail Terry with. Really epic match that I'd put up against any of the major hyped matches in the U.S. and Japan.


----------



## Yeah1993

Got nothing to add on the 2010 stuff but good job. Some guy needs to pile all of the good IWRG stuff from this year on to a set so I'll actually watch all of it. 

Watched Blue Panther vs. Atlantis from 1991 and thought it was a classic and a half. Beats all those awesome All Japan tags for match of the year too, imo.


----------



## New Blood

Credit to AAA, Alexis Salazar, Alfonso Lizarraga, DJ Spectro, Eduardo Reyes, EMLL

RESULTS

AULL 1/1 - Arena Lopez Mateos
1. ?
2. Cerebro Maligno/Hombre sin Rostro/Super Panda defeated Juan el Ranchero/Tortuguillo Ninja/Rey Krystal after Krystal turned on his teammates.
3. Cuadrangular de Parejas for the AULL Tag Titles - Semifinals: Chucho el Roto & Iron Love beat Epitafio & Herejia
4. Cuadrangular de Parejas for the AULL Tag Titles - Semifinals: Rey Krimen & Sepulturero defeated Robin Maravilla & Rocky Santana
5. Cuadrangular de Parejas for the AULL Tag Titles - Finals: Chucho el Roto & Iron Love beat Rey Krimen & Sepulturero to win the titles.
6. The Black Family (Cuervo/Espiritu/Ozz) defeated Sadico/Ultimo Gladiador/Yakuza after Yakuza turned on his teammates.
7. Murder Clown & Psycho Clown beat Coco Azul & Coco Rojo by DQ

EMLL 1/1 - Arena Mexico
1. Bengala & Camaleon beat Apocalipsis & Inquisidor
2. Princesa Sugei/Tiffany/Zeuxis defeated Goya Kong/Lluvia/Marcela
3. Torneo Reyes del Aire: Angel de Oro eliminated Virus to win. Other participants: Kid Tiger/Sensei/Escorpion/Molotov/Puma King/Rey Cometa/Raziel/Arkangel de la Muerte/Angel de Plata/Fuego/Cancerbero/Diamante/Polvora/Delta
4. La Triada del Terror (Averno/Ephesto/Mephisto) beat Hijo del Fantasma/Maximo/Rotoporky when Mephisto ripped off Fantasma's mask and pinned him.
5. Mascara Dorada/Mistico (dressed as Spiderman)/La Sombra defeated La Peste Negra (Felino/***** Casas/Rey Bucanero) with Que Monito keeping Periquito at bay while the tecnicos won the match.

EMLL 1/2 - Arena Mexico
1. Los Rayos Tapatios I y II beat Camorra & Cholo
2. Leono/Molotov/Starman defeated Dr. X/Durango Kid/Nitro by DQ when Dr. X ripped off Starman's mask.
3. Electrico/Mascarita Dorada/Ultimo Dragoncito beat Nitrito/Pequeno Olimpico/Pequeno Warrior
4. #1 Contenders Match for the Mexican National Trios Titles: Angel de Oro/Diamante/Rush defeated Metal Blanco/Palacio *****/Sagrado
5. Mistico/Rotoporky/Toscano beat Alebrije/Olimpico/Psicosis after Porky splashed everyone including Cuije.

Independent 1/1 - Arena Neza
1. Rey Neza & Z4 beat Misterio Verde & Motocross
2. Micke Segura/Las Traumas I y II defeated Black Lancer (subbing for Cerebro *****)/Carta Brava Jr./Dr. Cerebro
3. Black Thunder/Dralion/Hermano Muerte III beat Coco Blanco/Cocolores (subbing for Neza Kid)/Turbo
4. Solar I/Ultimo Dragon/Ultraman defeated Black Terry/Mascara Ano Dos Mil Jr./***** Navarro
5. Blue Demon Jr. & Hijo del Solitario beat Hijo del Santo & Rayo de Jalisco Jr. by DQ when after a ref bump, Demon fouled Rayo then faked a foule by Rayo with the referee believing him. Everyone tore at each other's masks here especially Santo & Demon.

UPCOMING SHOWS

EMPRESA MEXICANA DE LUCHA LIBRE

1/4 - Arena Coliseo de Guadalajara
1. Thunder Boy vs. Templario
2. Horus & Magnum vs. Exterminador & Malefico
3. Aereo/Pequeno Halcon/Ultimo Dragoncito vs. Mercurio/Pequeno Olimpico/Universito Dos Mil
4. Delta/Fuego/Stuka Jr. vs. Shigeo Okumura/Vangelis/Nobuo Yoshihashi
5. Blue Panther/Rotoporky/Toscano vs. La Peste Negra (Felino/***** Casas/Rey Bucanero)

1/4 - Arena Mexico
1. Astro Boy & Horus vs. Apocalipsis & Semental
2. Dragon Lee/Fabian el Gitano/Starman vs. Arkangel de la Muerte/Bobby Zavala/Escandalo
3. Goya Kong/Lluvia/Marcela vs. Amapola/Princesa Blanca/Zeuxis
4. Angel de Oro/Metro/Sagrado vs. Misterioso II/Polvora/Sangre Azteca
5. La Mascara/Maximo/Mistico vs. Alebrije/Olimpico/Psicosis

1/7 - Arena Mexico
1. Tigre Blanco & Trueno vs. Cholo & Zayco
2. Angel Azteca Jr./Pegasso/Rey Cometa vs. Durango Kid/Escorpion/Puma King
3. Astral/Bam Bam/Mini Fantasy vs. Pequeno Olimpico/Pequeno Warrior/Universito Dos Mil
4. Hijo del Fantasma/Rush/Valiente vs. Damian el Terrible/Hijo del Texano/Mephisto
5. Mascara Dorada/Rotoporky/La Sombra vs. Averno/***** Casas/Volador Jr.

INDEPENDENT

1/3 - Unidad Deportiva de Mexicalzingo
1. ?
2. ??
3. Fabi Apache/Mascarita Divina/Pasion Kristal vs. Cinthia Moreno/Mini Charly Manson/Polvo de Estrellas
4. Nicho el Millionario & La Parka Jr. vs. Chessman & Silver Kain

1/6 - Palacio del Arte de Morelia
1. ?
2. ??
3. ???
4. Fabi Apache & Mini Charly Manson vs. Sexy Star & Mini Chessman
5. Alebrije II & Elegido vs. Alan y Chris Stone

1/6 - Plaza de Toros de Tapachula
1. ?
2. ??
3. Mascarita Sagrada & Octagoncito vs. Mini Abismo ***** & Principe Guerrero
4. Billy Boy/Gallo Sureno/Gato Eveready vs. The Psycho Circus (Monster Clown/Murder Clown/Psycho Clown)
5. La Parka Jr. & Pimpinela Escarlata vs. Cibernetico & Zorro

1/9 - Palenque de Gallos de Tuxtla Gutierrez
1. ?
2. ??
3. Mascarita Divina & Octagoncito vs. Mini Abismo ***** & Mini Charly Manson
4. Aero Star/Argenis/Super Fly vs. The Black Family (Cuervo/Espiritu/Ozz)
5. Elegido & La Parka Jr. vs. Alan Stone & Chessman

PERROS DEL MAL

1/7 - Plaza de Toros el Relicario de Puebla
1. Los Guerreros de Plata I y II vs. Los Barbaros I y II
2. Mr. Celeste/Guerrero de la Noche/Motocross vs. Fobia/Guerrero Mantis/Jinete de la Muerte
3. Fabi y Mari Apache vs. Cinthia Moreno & Sexy Star
4. Bestia 666/Super Crazy/X-Fly vs. Jack Evans/Extreme Tiger/Super Fly
5. Los Perros del Mal (Perro Aguayo Jr./Damian 666/Halloween) vs. The Psycho Circus (Monster Clown/Murder Clown/Psycho Clown)

TIJUANA/BAJA CALIFORNIA

INDEPENDENT

1/6 - Auditorio Municipal de Tijuana (Rey Misterio Sr. Benefit Show)
1. ?
2. ??
3. Angel Metalico/Horus/Piloto Suicida vs. Tony Casanova/Maquiavelica/Wama
4. IWL Tag Titles: Bestia 666 & X-Fly © vs. Arandu & TJ Boy
5. Extreme Tiger/Hijo del Kato Kung Lee/Hijo del Rey Misterio vs. Black Abyss/Mexico's Most Wanted (Damian 666 & Halloween)

PROMOCIONES ZATARAIN

1/21 - Deportivo Corona de La Paz
1. Arcano & Fenix vs. Anticristo & Sacrilegio
2. Centella Kids & Hijo del Sol vs. Mr. Muerto Jr. & Tornado
3. Extreme Rules: Rosabel vs. Bello Juan
4. Fly Metal/Relampago/Winners vs. Animanica/Furia Extrema/Tiger
5. El Mesias & La Parka Jr. vs. Chessman & Ultimo Gladiador


----------



## McQueen

Wait is Black Terry an older guy? I figured he was some young upstart.


----------



## New Blood

Jon Hamm Sandwich said:


> Wait is Black Terry an older guy? I figured he was some young upstart.


Yeah, he's in his 50s. He's been wrestling since the late 80s or so I believe.


----------



## McQueen

Well I haven't seen a whole lot of Lucha but I kept hearing his name this year, figured he was a younger guy since i've never heard of him.


----------



## New Blood

Jon Hamm Sandwich said:


> Well I haven't seen a whole lot of Lucha but I kept hearing his name this year, figured he was a younger guy since i've never heard of him.


I hadn't discovered him until March or so as I heard his name continuously on the DVDVR and their sister boards and the Segunda Caida blog. I checked out his matches and was blown away. He's like the lucha version of Fit Finlay. He's technically great, he can brawl and can heel it up like it's nobodies business.


----------



## McQueen

Sounds interesting.

I really need to start paying attention to Lucha.


----------



## New Blood

While I've been pretty supportive of Lucha, I'm still a bit picky about it because it's not what it used to be and it can vary between transcendence and just shit. AAA is pure shit. CMLL has flashes of brilliance (usually a solid undercard) but their style has gotten really stagnant with main eventers that just mail in their performances. IWRG is known mostly for technical wrestling but has some of the best brawls around. Then you have other various lucha indies that I have no idea about. LOL.


----------



## New Blood

From the first IWRG show of the year:
*Black Lancer/Carta Brava Jr./Dr. Cerebro vs. Mike Segura/Los Traumas [IWRG 1/1]*
Fun match. Nothing too exciting about this match but Trauma II is pretty good when he is in.

*Ultimo Dragon/Solar/Ultraman vs. Black Terry/***** Navarro/Mascara Dos Mil Jr. [IWRG 1/1]*
A good match but nothing that I haven't seen by the people involved. The Solar/Navarro feud continues and have great exchanges together like usual but like Phil Schneider said in his review, it felt more like a greatest hits collection. Fun seeing Terry and Ultimo square off.


----------



## LEON4L

http://www.youtube.com/user/WarriorsX2000
this guys uploads lucha libre shows on weekly basis straight from the mexican networks, no galavision four month old stuff, for anyone who wants to follow lucha libre on a weekly basis

cmll,los perros del mal, and aaa


----------



## New Blood

LEON4L said:


> http://www.youtube.com/user/WarriorsX2000
> this guys uploads lucha libre shows on weekly basis straight from the mexican networks, no galavision four month old stuff, for anyone who wants to follow lucha libre on a weekly basis
> 
> cmll,los perros del mal, and aaa


A great channel.


----------



## just1988

LEON4L said:


> http://www.youtube.com/user/WarriorsX2000
> this guys uploads lucha libre shows on weekly basis straight from the mexican networks, no galavision four month old stuff, for anyone who wants to follow lucha libre on a weekly basis
> 
> cmll,los perros del mal, and aaa


I've been subscribed to this guy for a few months now but I've still not actually sat down and watched a full show. I'm gunna try and change that this year starting with the CMLL show he's posted from 1/1/11.

Edit*

I just started watching it and it seems to be some kid of highlight show, think I'll wait for the first propper one.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Jon Hamm Sandwich said:


> Well I haven't seen a whole lot of Lucha but I kept hearing his name this year, figured he was a younger guy since i've never heard of him.


He's 59. Debuted in 1975.

The old lucha maestros were the best part about 2010 wrestling to me.


----------



## New Blood

Andy3000 said:


> He's 59. Debuted in 1975.
> 
> The old lucha maestros were the best part about 2010 wrestling to me.


Glad I was schooled. I knew he was in his 50s but didn't know what year he debuted. I was a decade off. LOL.

***** Navarro was great in 2010 as well.


----------



## New Blood

Credit to AAA, Alejandro Aguirre, Ana Gutierrez, Box y Lucha, Diego Mejia Eguiluz, EMLL, IWRG

NEWS

Dr. Wagner Jr. & La Parka Jr. recently taped a commercial for Burger King in Mexico and that will be something to definitely look out for.

The Washington Post took a look at how Lucha Libre is coping with the current drug cartel epidemic in Mexico and this is a pretty good read. 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/02/AR2011010202440.html

RESULTS

EMLL 1/2 - Arena Coliseo de Guadalajara
1. Nube Roja beat Hijo del Javier Cruz
2. Evola & Leon Blanco defeated Hierro & Horus who had to be stretchered out after the match.
3. Loco Max & Rafaga beat Angel de Plata & Sensei
4. Euforia/Shigeo Okumura/Polvora defeated Angel Azteca Jr./El Gallo/Metro
5. Blue Panther/La Mascara/Valiente beat Atlantis/Averno/Ephesto

Guerra de Empresas 1/2 - Arena Naucalpan
1. Aero Boy/Comando *****/Sexy Lady beat Dinamic Black/Violento Jack/Ludark Shaitan
2. IWRG Intercontinental Trios Titles: Los Oficiales (AK-47/Fierro/911) defeated Amadeus/Gran Apache/Tabu to retain their titles.
3. Guerra de Empresas - Semifinals: Murder Clown & Psycho Clown beat Crazy Boy & Joe Lider receiving a bye to the finals.
4. Guerra de Empresas - Quarterfinals: Mascara Ano Dos Mil Jr. & Trauma I defeated Rocky Santana & Yakuza by DQ when the Bizarros attacked the IWRG guys until Black Terry & Veneno made the save then Terry challenged Rocky to a hair match afterwards.
5. Guerra de Empresas - Quarterfinals: Super Crazy & X-Fly beat Hijo del Lizmark (subbing for Black Warrior) & Hijo del Pierroth
6. Guerra de Empresas - Semifinals: Super Crazy & X-Fly defeated Black Terry & Veneno with X-Fly using the ropes while pinning Terry.
7. Relevos Increibles: La Parka Jr. & Silver Kain beat Dr. Wagner Jr. & Electroshock when SK had the help of Hijo del Fresero, Ultimo Gladiador, Trolly, and a foule on Electro.
8. Guerra de Empresas - Finals: Murder Clown & Psycho Clown defeated Super Crazy & X-Fly when Monster fouled Crazy behind the ref's back.

UPCOMING SHOWS

EMPRESA MEXICANA DE LUCHA LIBRE

1/4 - Arena Coliseo de Guadalajara
1. Thunder Boy vs. Templario
2. Horus & Magnum vs. Exterminador & Malefico
3. Aereo/Pequeno Halcon/Ultimo Dragoncito vs. Mercurio/Pequeno Olimpico/Universito Dos Mil
4. Delta/Fuego/Stuka Jr. vs. Shigeo Okumura/Vangelis/Nobuo Yoshihashi
5. Blue Panther/Rotoporky/Toscano vs. La Peste Negra (Felino/***** Casas/Rey Bucanero)

1/4 - Arena Mexico
1. Astro Boy & Horus vs. Apocalipsis & Semental
2. Dragon Lee/Fabian el Gitano/Starman vs. Arkangel de la Muerte/Bobby Zavala/Escandalo
3. Goya Kong/Lluvia/Marcela vs. Amapola/Princesa Blanca/Zeuxis
4. Angel de Oro/Metro/Sagrado vs. Misterioso II/Polvora/Sangre Azteca
5. La Mascara/Maximo/Mistico vs. Alebrije/Olimpico/Psicosis

1/7 - Arena Mexico
1. Tigre Blanco & Trueno vs. Cholo & Zayco
2. Angel Azteca Jr./Pegasso/Rey Cometa vs. Durango Kid/Escorpion/Puma King
3. Astral/Bam Bam/Mini Fantasy vs. Pequeno Olimpico/Pequeno Warrior/Universito Dos Mil
4. Hijo del Fantasma/Rush/Valiente vs. Damian el Terrible/Hijo del Texano/Mephisto
5. Mascara Dorada/Rotoporky/La Sombra vs. Averno/***** Casas/Volador Jr.

1/9 - Arena Coliseo de Guadalajara
1. Virgo vs. Cholo
2. Astro Boy & Neutron vs. Dr. X & Drago
3. Marcela & Silueta vs. Amapola & La Comandante
4. Fuego/El Gallo/Sagrado vs. Felino/Shigeo Okumura/Nobuo Yoshihashi
5. Hijo del Fantasma/La Mascara/Mascara Dorada vs. ***** Casas/Rey Bucanero/Volador Jr.

1/9 - Arena Mexico
1. Bengala & Robin vs. Los Hombres del Camoflaje (Artillero y Super Comando)
2. Los Rayos Tapatios I y II/Sensei vs. El Bronco/Kid Tiger/Mortiz
3. Maximo/Toscano/Valiente vs. Euforia/Vangelis/Virus
4. Mexican National Trios Titles: Delta/Metro/Stuka Jr. © (I guess the fan vote worked after all) vs. Angel de Oro/Diamante/Rush
5. Blue Panther/Mistico/La Sombra vs. Los Guerreros del Atlantida (Atlantis/Dragon Rojo/Ultimo Guerrero)

INDEPENDENT

1/6 - Palacio del Arte de Morelia
1. ?
2. ??
3. ???
4. Fabi Apache & Mini Charly Manson vs. Sexy Star & Mini Chessman
5. Alebrije II & Elegido vs. Alan y Chris Stone

1/6 - Parque de Beisbol Beto Avila de Boca del Rio
1. ?
2. Aritmetico/Hijo del Buitre/Rey Egipto vs. Aracnofobia/Matrix/Sombra Guerrera
3. Delia & Lluvia vs. Princesa Blanca & Princesa Sugei
4. Rush/Stuka Jr./Toscano vs. Alebrije/Histeria/Psicosis
5. Hijo del Fantasma/La Mascara/Mistico vs. Olimpico/Los Sicarios del Infierno (Averno y Mephisto)

1/6 - Plaza de Toros de Tapachula
1. ?
2. ??
3. Mascarita Sagrada & Octagoncito vs. Mini Abismo ***** & Principe Guerrero
4. Billy Boy/Gallo Sureno/Gato Eveready vs. The Psycho Circus (Monster Clown/Murder Clown/Psycho Clown)
5. La Parka Jr. & Pimpinela Escarlata vs. Cibernetico & Zorro

1/9 - Palenque de Gallos de Tuxtla Gutierrez
1. ?
2. ??
3. Mascarita Divina & Octagoncito vs. Mini Abismo ***** & Mini Charly Manson
4. Aero Star/Argenis/Super Fly vs. The Black Family (Cuervo/Espiritu/Ozz)
5. Elegido & La Parka Jr. vs. Alan Stone & Chessman

INTERNACIONAL WRESTLING REVOLUCION GRUPO

1/6 - Arena Naucalpan
1. Eros vs. Alan Extreme
2. Dinamic Black & Magia Negra vs. Carta Brava Jr. & Eterno
3. Mascarita Divina & La Parkita vs. Mini Histeria & Mini Psicosis
4. Los Cerebros Terribles (Black Terry/Cerebro *****/Dr. Cerebro) vs. Los Gringos VIP (Avisman/****** Loco/Hijo del Diablo)
5. Pantera/Tony Rivera/Veneno vs. Los Bizarros (Amadeus/Nygma/Tabu)

PERROS DEL MAL

1/7 - Plaza de Toros el Relicario de Puebla
1. Los Guerreros de Plata I y II vs. Los Barbaros I y II
2. Mr. Celeste/Guerrero de la Noche/Motocross vs. Fobia/Guerrero Mantis/Jinete de la Muerte
3. Fabi y Mari Apache vs. Cinthia Moreno & Sexy Star
4. Bestia 666/Super Crazy/X-Fly vs. Jack Evans/Extreme Tiger/Super Fly
5. Los Perros del Mal (Perro Aguayo Jr./Damian 666/Halloween) vs. The Psycho Circus (Monster Clown/Murder Clown/Psycho Clown)

TIJUANA/BAJA CALIFORNIA

INDEPENDENT

1/6 - Auditorio Municipal de Tijuana (Rey Misterio Sr. Benefit Show)
1. ?
2. ??
3. Angel Metalico/Horus/Piloto Suicida vs. Tony Casanova/Maquiavelica/Wama
4. IWL Tag Titles: Bestia 666 & X-Fly © vs. Arandu & TJ Boy
5. Extreme Tiger/Hijo del Kato Kung Lee/Hijo del Rey Misterio vs. Black Abyss/Mexico's Most Wanted (Damian 666 & Halloween)

PROMOCIONES ZATARAIN

1/21 - Deportivo Corona de La Paz
1. Arcano & Fenix vs. Anticristo & Sacrilegio
2. Centella Kids & Hijo del Sol vs. Mr. Muerto Jr. & Tornado
3. Extreme Rules: Rosabel vs. Bello Juan
4. Fly Metal/Relampago/Winners vs. Animanica/Furia Extrema/Tiger
5. El Mesias & La Parka Jr. vs. Chessman & Ultimo Gladiador


----------



## just1988

I just finished watching my first IWRG show, I didn't think it was anything special but I'm gunna try to continue being a regular viewer. I was surprised to see Hernandez wrestling for them, that was a bonus even if he was highly average in the match.


----------



## New Blood

just1988 said:


> I just finished watching my first IWRG show, I didn't think it was anything special but I'm gunna try to continue being a regular viewer. I was surprised to see Hernandez wrestling for them, that was a bonus even if he was highly average in the match.


I'm curious, was it one of their TV shows or the Handheld shows? I haven't seen too many of their TV stuff other than that it's pretty average.

IWRG is pretty consistent in their quality of shows. Not all of their shows are brilliant or great but I haven't seen one bad show though. For every several average shows, there will be a great show.


----------



## just1988

New Blood said:


> I'm curious, was it one of their TV shows or the Handheld shows? I haven't seen too many of their TV stuff other than that it's pretty average.
> 
> IWRG is pretty consistent in their quality of shows. Not all of their shows are brilliant or great but I haven't seen one bad show though. For every several average shows, there will be a great show.


I believe it was one of their tv shows, it wasn't too bad but it wasn't really as eye catching as I was hoping.

I'm just about to watch a CMLL show from Jan 3rd and the first match features "Milenium & Stigma vs Akron & Ares". I was wondering is it the same Ares & Stigma who are found in Chikara or is it just a coincidence that the 2 guys in this match share the same ring names as the Chikara regulars?


----------



## New Blood

So in Uruguay, there's an Elvis Mummy wrestling. Just when I thought I've seen everything.








> The origin of this Gladiator is unclear. Some say it's a mummy belonged to Elvis Presley, the king of rock. And apparently, after the death of the music idol of the 50s, have been brought taken to a museum where they have escaped to pursue his life's passion: wrestling.
> 
> However, there are those who say it is an ancient mummy, but mummy itself is Elvis Presley, or that Elvis is mummified. Hence so spectacularly dance rock.


Chris Hero and Claudio Castagnoli recently had a trip to Uruguay and I'd like to think that Hero had a match with Momia de Elvis.


----------



## Yeah1993

Anyone seen the LA PARK vs. Judas Mesias match from mid-late last year? I hear it's a MOTYC.


----------



## lic05

New Blood said:


> So in Uruguay, there's an Elvis Mummy wrestling. Just when I thought I've seen everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Hero and Claudio Castagnoli recently had a trip to Uruguay and I'd like to think that Hero had a match with Momia de Elvis.


Oh my god and I tought mexican wrestling had goofballs :lmao...

Isn't it from the same promotion that also has the Pizza Delivery Boy gimmick?


----------



## ToddTheBod

So I'm new to Lucha Libre USA. Upon it's first airing on MTV 2 in July, I watched it. But after that I did not keep up to date with it. From what I understand it's broadcasted in "Seasons", so now that Season 1 is over, Season 2 is on it's way? Correct me if I'm wrong. And if this is the case, is there anywhere I can see Season 1 in it's entirety?


----------



## universo.wrestling

You have a good website if you want to follow lucha libre that is called Universo Wrestling, the link is: galaxiawrestling.net its updated many times a week with lucha content.


----------



## New Blood

Yeah1993 said:


> Anyone seen the LA PARK vs. Judas Mesias match from mid-late last year? I hear it's a MOTYC.


I heard their match last month was amazing. There were a few big lucha guys who put it as their MOTY so I'm going to check this out now.


----------



## jpchicago23

Does anyone know if there are any comps out there with El Dandy on them? I've heard good stuff and wanna track it down


----------



## Yeah1993

I have a 13 disc one that I could give you the seller's email address to.


----------



## jpchicago23

Yeah that sounds good, could you pm me the address?


----------



## DregSkorn

ToddTheBod said:


> So I'm new to Lucha Libre USA. Upon it's first airing on MTV 2 in July, I watched it. But after that I did not keep up to date with it. From what I understand it's broadcasted in "Seasons", so now that Season 1 is over, Season 2 is on it's way? Correct me if I'm wrong. And if this is the case, is there anywhere I can see Season 1 in it's entirety?


I can't post a link yet because I'm still new here but this most of the link *mtv.com/shows/lucha_libre/video.jhtml*

enjoy


----------



## DregSkorn

just1988 said:


> I've been subscribed to this guy for a few months now but I've still not actually sat down and watched a full show. I'm gunna try and change that this year starting with the CMLL show he's posted from 1/1/11.
> 
> Edit*
> 
> I just started watching it and it seems to be some kid of highlight show, think I'll wait for the first propper one.


I'm in the same boat, I've been subscribed for a few months and haven't watched any full episodes. I did notice he just put up an IRWG show from two days ago so I'm going to watch it this weekend


----------



## Randy Ravishing

It's very sad, that AAA doesn't release lots of DVDs.


----------



## Yeah1993

this might have taken place in Japan but it still counts as Lucha Libre so I'm posting it in here

Blue Panther/Cuchillo v Super Astro/Kato Kung Lee (UWF 7/6/90)
--Sometimes searching random matches on a streaming site just does it for you. This wasn't much of a "great match" as much as it was a "show the Japanese crowd what lucha is all about". If I got the date right, and I think I did, then this wasn't too long after the promotion had been formed so nothing more should been expected. It did its job. The crowd were nuts were Kato Kung Lee except this one guy with a shrieky voice that was chating "Cuchillo" every now and then. Kato remined me of the original Tiger Mask but in a good way, he did some stuff I'd never seen before and didn't botch a single thing. H emade what he was doing look worthwhile as well, I mean you could argue that this wasn't much better than what a Kurt Angle might do but they keep the traditional "face dominates heel" or this case "tecnico dominates rudo" formaula and it's just THAT fun to watch. Or I can be really bias and unfair and don't give a shit. Cuchillo was the biggest guy in the match and less agile than the rest so while Astro and Kato were diving arond and running on the ropes (literally) he would be handing out free lariats to impress your face with. Panther was giving power moves like that as well and wasn't rocking the mat like he might in other matches, mainly because it looked like he wanted to make Kato look like the best guy ever, and he succeeded. Really fun and worth your time unless you have no soul.


----------



## TheAce

Anyone know if the Fantasticmania CMLL/NJPW shows from couple weeks ago are around anywhere? or worth checking out?


----------



## Noah Mark

Regarding the Dr Cerebro vs El Hijo Del Diablo match from March of 2010.It was one of my picks for match of the year. Great matwork by both guys!


----------



## Noah Mark

Here are my 2011 Lucha match of the year candidates so far.

Black Terry/Cerebro *****/Dr. Cerebro vs. Avisman/El Hijo Del Diablo/Jack - 1/6
Black Terry/***** Navarro vs. Angel Mortal/Gran Apache -IWRG 1/9
Solar I/Ultraman/Ultimo Dragon vs Black Terry/***** Navarro/Mascara Ano 2000 Jr- indy 1/1/2011 
Histeria II & Psicosis II vs Solar/***** Navarro-UWE 1/19/2011
Black Terry/Trauma I/Trauma II vs Rocky Santana/Sadico/Robin Maravilla-UWE 1/19/2011 
Dr Cerebro vs Commando *****-IWRG 1/30/11
Black Terry/Solar I vs ***** Navarro/Villano IV-Lucha Indy 1/29/11
Fabi/Mari Apache vs Traumas I & II-DTU 1/29/11


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Haven't started on the 2011 stuff yet; still rounding up on 2010. Can't wait to watch the maestros toreno match with fucking Dandy and FUERZA~ from 1/29, though. 


Watched the Blue Panther/Super Astro title match from 10/9/92 again this morning and it's still one of the best matches in AAA history. I don't think there's any point in AAA's history that I'd say I actively like, but there's still a chunk of matches from the promotion I'd say are excellent. This is top 10 and it's really worked more like your traditional CMLL title match than something like Santito/Psicosis, which I doubt I'll like very much if I ever bother to re-watch it. Panther is one of the best ever and Super Astro continually rules the world as a portly little fellow with ridiculous grace and athleticism. I could count on one hand the amount of guys in Mexico right now under the age of 40 that I'd expect to be able to work a title match this good, and two of them are Navarro's kids. Go figure.


----------



## Kapik1337

TheAce said:


> Anyone know if the Fantasticmania CMLL/NJPW shows from couple weeks ago are around anywhere? or worth checking out?


Yeah, you can find them in the media section here or on Youtube. Good shows, except... that La Mascara dude. Was he having a bad night, or is he generally awful?


----------



## Sunglasses

A friend told me that he is generally awful -.-


----------



## Certified G

I haven't watched Lucha Libre (the real thing, not the MTV.. thing) I really should get back into it I always really enjoyed it. Anyone know a place where I can download full shows in good quality (or torrents) or aren't you allowed to ask for such things here? If so disregard the second half of this post.


----------



## Violent By Design

Hey guys, are there any real good matches that El Mistico has been in?

I'm still not really broken into Lucha Libre, I've seen a few matches here and there (on Telemundo) that I liked but it still seems kinda dry. Any tips on what I should watch to get into it?


----------



## Yeah1993

Atlantis vs. Villano III 3/17/00 is a really starter match. I gave it to this guy who hadn't ever liked lucha libre (and been a wrestling fan for over 15 or something years) and he loved it. 

AAA matches from the 90s are great starters too. They might not hold up after a couple of years (or they might, Idk), but their easy to get into straight away. Blue Panther vs. Super Astro 10/9/92, Rey Misterio Jr vs. Psicosis 9/22/95, El Hijo del Santo vs. Psicosis 5/3/95 are all great. Not a AAA match but El Dandy vs. Angel Azteca 6/1/90 is something I;d call a good lucha starter as well.


----------



## New Blood

Yeah1993 said:


> Atlantis vs. Villano III 3/17/00 is a really starter match. I gave it to this guy who hadn't ever liked lucha libre (and been a wrestling fan for over 15 or something years) and he loved it.
> 
> AAA matches from the 90s are great starters too. They might not hold up after a couple of years (or they might, Idk), but their easy to get into straight away. Blue Panther vs. Super Astro 10/9/92, Rey Misterio Jr vs. Psicosis 9/22/95, El Hijo del Santo vs. Psicosis 5/3/95 are all great. Not a AAA match but El Dandy vs. Angel Azteca 6/1/90 is something I;d call a good lucha starter as well.


What he said. People also start off with El Hijo del Santo/Octagon vs. Eddie Guerrero/Art Barr from When World's Collide but IMO, it doesn't hold up though.


----------



## Caligula

^that wasnt a top 10 AAA match from 1994


----------



## Violent By Design

I thought Blue Panther vs Atlantis was a lot better than Blue Panther vs Superastro. The latter I couldn't feel any fire in what they were doing and the sequences looked kinda weak. The former had just enough impact with out sacrificing grace, and I thought it had much better pacing. 

Any Mistico matches you guys like?


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

The WWC stips match really isn't that good. The 11/93 match is better, but even that didn't hold up like I hoped it would when I watched it again a couple years ago. 

I wouldn't start with AAA, period. There's enough AAA stuff that I still like a lot (some of the trios from the Gringos Locos/Santo-Octagon feud, Panther/Astro, Panther/Mariachi, Mascarita Sagrada/Espectrito, the 3/16/95 trios, the 6/18/95 8-man... that's about all that's coming to mind right now), but for the most part that company doesn't hold up well at all. I tried to re-watch the Rey/Psicosis and Rey/Juventud matches again about a year ago and couldn't get through everything. Don't think Santo/Psicosis is as good as at least 30 CMLL matches from the '89-92 period.

'89-'92 CMLL is a pretty good place to start. 90s AAA is really built on flash for the most part, and it just doesn't hold up IMO (repeating myself but w/e). I guess you can say CMLL is more "traditional lucha". The '89-'92 period is pretty amazing. They had an incredible year in '97 as well, but I haven't went through as much '97 and I have '89 or '90. Feech will likely be able to recommend more '97 CMLL beyond the usual suspects (Santo/Casas, Panther/Atlantis, Santo/Felino, etc), but the CMLL minis were flat out fucking awesome in '97. The Damiancito El Guerrero/Cicloncito Ramirez match from 1/7 is probably my pick for best match ever. The October trios might be the best trios ever. 

If anything, watch a Rey/Psicosis match, a Rey/Juventud match, Santo/Psicosis and a couple highly pimped AAA trios matches. Then watch Dandy/Azteca from 6/90, Dandy/Casas from 7/92, Santo/Casas/Dandy from 12/96 and the minis matches I mentioned (would've said Panther/Atlantis from '91 but I'm assuming you already watched that one), which are all from CMLL. 

See which style you prefer and go from there.


----------



## Yeah1993

New Blood said:


> What he said. People also start off with El Hijo del Santo/Octagon vs. Eddie Guerrero/Art Barr from When World's Collide but IMO, it doesn't hold up though.





Andy3000 said:


> The WWC stips match really isn't that good. The 11/93 match is better, but even that didn't hold up like I hoped it would when I watched it again a couple years ago.
> 
> I wouldn't start with AAA, period. There's enough AAA stuff that I still like a lot (some of the trios from the Gringos Locos/Santo-Octagon feud, Panther/Astro, Panther/Mariachi, Mascarita Sagrada/Espectrito, the 3/16/95 trios, the 6/18/95 8-man... that's about all that's coming to mind right now), but for the most part that company doesn't hold up well at all. I tried to re-watch the Rey/Psicosis and Rey/Juventud matches again about a year ago and couldn't get through everything. Don't think Santo/Psicosis is as good as at least 30 CMLL matches from the '89-92 period.


Yeah I was basically trying to say that AAA stuff is good to get into in the beginning, but it tends to not be as good after a while. I think it's the Mexican equivalent to Dynamite Kid/Tiger Mask. It's great to start off with to get into the new style ("new" being Lucha/Puro), but it your tastes eventually change. Then again you get guys who still love the TM/DKid series after years so you never know. I still think something like Santo/Psicosis is realy good but I thought it was a classic not a year ago and it didn't hold up. A little afraid to watch Rey/Psicosis since it was one of my favourite matches ever and one of the 3 or 4 matches responsible for getting me into lucha libre in the first place. 

I wouldn't really recommend that Santo/Octagon vs. Locos match. It's definitely not bad but the fact it's the most recognised Santo match by a lot of people is really sad. That might have not even been his best match that month. You can believe Mr. Observer has a lot to do with that.



Violent By Design said:


> I thought Blue Panther vs Atlantis was a lot better than Blue Panther vs Superastro. The latter I couldn't feel any fire in what they were doing and the sequences looked kinda weak. The former had just enough impact with out sacrificing grace, and I thought it had much better pacing.


Forgot about Panther/Atlantis, I think that's a great starter as well, so is the 97 one. Agreed about the 91 match being better than Panther/Astro but yeah love all of them.

Not even sure I've ever watched a Mistico match, but Averno/Mephsito vs. ***** Casas/Mistico from 2006 gets lovin' from some places.


----------



## New Blood

Over at the DVDVR, Smarks Choice, Pro Wrestling Only, Segunda Caida, Wrestling KO universe-type forums, a discussion of possibly redoing the 90s polls as a side along with the 80s project because they felt that a lot of opinions about wrestling has changed since 2000. They might leave the WWF and AJPW ones alone but the others would have major changes. With ECW, a ton of handhelds are available now, with New Japan, there's more appreciation for the heavyweights, more American indies footage has come up, shootstyle is more respected in Japan indies then the Michinoku Pro type stuff.

With lucha, they don't think that the majority of the previous Top 20 would even make it especially with the greatness of early 90s CMLL. Alot of their previous opinions came from the Observer's glowing reviews of only the AAA stuff which doesn't hold up anymore while the CMLL stock has risen.

A few months ago, I wanted to start a forum wide discussion about the different views of wrestling that has changed. With lucha, more footage has been uncovered and people have more access to 80s lucha and early 90s CMLL then say what it was like a couple years ago. With this, people can see that Casas and Dandy can be put on the same plane of greatness that Flair and Misawa was on. They could also see that there's more to lucha then just being "flippity floppity" shit.


----------



## jpchicago23

Does CMLL come on Directv? I've seen AAA on Galavision but not CMLL


----------



## New Blood

jpchicago23 said:


> Does CMLL come on Directv? I've seen AAA on Galavision but not CMLL


Unfortunately not anymore. I have DirecTV but they used to have it but Galavision exclusively has AAA. CMLL shows are usually uploaded on You Tube and Cubs Fan puts them up on his blog as well.


----------



## B-Boy21

Were could I watch AAA, CMLL and the other mexican wrestling companies?


----------



## New Blood

B-Boy21 said:


> Were could I watch AAA, CMLL and the other mexican wrestling companies?


You can watch AAA on Galavision. There's various blogs and You Tube channels that release shows on a weekly basis.

Cubs Fan is one of the most notable.
http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/

You can watch AAA and CMLL's weekly shows here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/WarriorsX2000

Black Terry Jr. releases all of the handheld IWRG (best independent lucha company) shows.
http://www.youtube.com/user/tvluchadelpasado

Other channels:
http://www.youtube.com/user/LuchaLibreNation
http://www.youtube.com/user/LuchaLibreDeMexico


----------



## Violent By Design

What are some good trios matches?

Also, anyone like Blue Demon Jr?


----------



## New Blood

Violent By Design said:


> What are some good trios matches?


El Satanico/El Dandy/Emilio Charles Jr. vs. Atlantis/Javier Cruz/Angel Azteca, 5/13/90
Bracito De Oro/Cicloncito Ramirez/Mascarita Magica vs Damiancito El Guerrero/El Fierito/Pierrothito, 10/3/97 
Eddie Guerrero/Art Barr/Fuerza Guerrera vs. Blue Panther/Perro Aguayo/Octagon 8/22/93
El Hijo del Santo/Octagon/Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Fuerza Guerrera/Psicosis/Blue Panther 3/16/95


----------



## jpchicago23

Anyone know where i can find Triplemania 2009 on dvd? I checked IVP but didnt see it


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Alfredo Esparza will have it. 

http://www.slambamjam.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SDC&Category_Code=AE04

Any lucha I get, I get from him.


----------



## New Blood

I'm having trouble finding this match:
Damiancito El Guerrero v Cicloncito Ramirez (CMLL, 1/7/97)

Anyone got a link?

EDIT: Nevermind, found it.


----------



## acracker

I had a wierd dream less than an hour ago

I was watching a tna ppv from home, they were clearly weren in the IZ

It was now time for the tag title match i cant remember who was in the ring already but Octogon was now in the ring. Then it showed the crowd some of them on their feet

Tazz saids on commentary that thia is like an impact opening, whatever that means, then this orchestra music starts up

and few people in the crwd clearly hispanic were singing, the lyrics sounded spanish it went something like

"Oa Ve Ar Sar Hor, El Hijo Hevoh El Santo" over and over as El Hijo Del Santo comes down through an LAX style entrance way but more dignified

the people singing also did hand gestures , a Jeff Hardy one follwed by holding up three fingers and lowering them

I HAVE NO EARTHLY CLUE WHERE THIS CAME FROM, though i do remember watching the 3 way dance tag from ECW Guilty as charged 1999 beofre going to bed last night

*Tell me Libre historians, were any of Los Santo's entrances anything like that?*


----------



## milkman7

So far IWRG has been on fire this year, as is par, but people really need to check out the ***** Navarro/Black Terry vs Apache/Angel Imortal tags from January.

1/9/11
First Fall - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd06OAo5mIg
Second Fall - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UsTZEObNRc
Third Fall - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sT2l6urJ0I

1/16/11
First Fall - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScaQImyk7vU
Second and Third Falls - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVpB5zt7_r8


----------



## New Blood

I haven't checked out much new lucha this year so I'm definitely checking those out. People need to get on the Black Terry train. They don't know what they're missing. Same thing goes for Dick Togo.

I also watched Cicloncito Ramirez vs. Damiencito El Guerrero [1/7/97] and that was phenomenal. I'd put it up there with the 20 best lucha matches that I've ever seen. As good as lucha gets.

I also just acquired ***** Casas vs. El Dandy [7/15/92] and I've heard people swear by that match. How can you go wrong with 2 of the greatest wrestlers squaring off?


----------



## milkman7

New Blood said:


> I haven't checked out much new lucha this year so I'm definitely checking those out. People need to get on the Black Terry train. They don't know what they're missing. Same thing goes for Dick Togo.


Completely agreed. I also really love ***** Navarro, they make a great team.


----------



## New Blood

Here's Ohtani's Jacket's (from DVDVR/WKO/Pro-Wrestling Only) Top 20 Lucha Matches of the 90s:
1. Atlantis vs Blue Panther, 8/9/91
2. El Dandy vs ***** Casas, 7/3/92
3. Angel Azteca vs. El Dandy, 6/1/90
4. El Satanico/El Dandy/Emilio Charles Jr. vs. Atlantis/Javier Cruz/Angel Azteca, 5/13/90
5. Los Infernales (MS-1, Satanico & Pirata Morgan) vs. Los Brazos, 11/22/91
6. Bracito De Oro/Cicloncito Ramirez/Mascarita Magica vs Damiancito El Guerrero/El Fierito/Pierrothito, 10/3/97
7. Cicloncito Ramirez vs Damiancito El Guerrero, 1/7/97
8. Trio Fantasia v. Thundercats, (Masks vs. Masks), 12/8/91
9. Ciclon Ramirez vs Felino (Mask vs Mask), 7/9/93
10. Pirata Morgan vs El Faraon (Hair vs Hair), 11/16/90
11. El Hijo Del Santo vs Brazo De Oro (Mask vs Hair), 1/13/91
12. El Mariachi vs Blue Panther, 10/30/94
13. Ciclon Ramirez vs Javier Cruz (Hair vs Hair), 6/10/94
14. Atlantis/Brazo De Oro/El Dandy/Mascara Magica/La Fiera/***** Casas/Shocker/Ultimo Dragon vs Black Warrior/Dr. Wagner Jr./El Hijo Del Santo/Felino/Kevin Quinn/Satanico/Scorpio Jr./Silver King, 4/18/97
15. El Hijo del Santo vs. Felino, 7/4/97
16. Rayo De Jalisco Jr. vs Apolo Dantes, 5/31/96
17. Octagon vs Fuerza Guerrera, 11/1/91
18. Mascarita Sagrada vs Espectrito I, 3/12/94
19. Silver King vs Apolo Dantes, 6/23/95
20. Dr. Wagner Jr./El Hijo Del Santo/El Texano/La Fiera/Mascara Magica/Mr. Niebla/Shocker vs Black Warrior/El Dandy/Felino/Mano Negra/***** Casas/Scorpio Jr./Silver King, 3/28/97


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

OJ's blog is one of the better wrestling blogs on the net. His hatred of Jerry Estrada makes me a sad panda, though.

Spent the last while finishing up the DVDVR Texas set so I'll try and get caught up with the 2011 lucha soon. Dandy and Fuerza making tape is still the best thing to come out of 2011 wrestling for me.


----------



## acracker

New Blood said:


> Here's Ohtani's Jacket's (from DVDVR/WKO/Pro-Wrestling Only) Top 20 Lucha Matches of the 90s:
> 1. Atlantis vs Blue Panther, 8/9/91
> 2. El Dandy vs ***** Casas, 7/3/92
> 3. Angel Azteca vs. El Dandy, 6/1/90
> 4. El Satanico/El Dandy/Emilio Charles Jr. vs. Atlantis/Javier Cruz/Angel Azteca, 5/13/90
> 5. Los Infernales (MS-1, Satanico & Pirata Morgan) vs. Los Brazos, 11/22/91
> 6. Bracito De Oro/Cicloncito Ramirez/Mascarita Magica vs Damiancito El Guerrero/El Fierito/Pierrothito, 10/3/97
> 7. Cicloncito Ramirez vs Damiancito El Guerrero, 1/7/97
> 8. Trio Fantasia v. Thundercats, (Masks vs. Masks), 12/8/91
> 9. Ciclon Ramirez vs Felino (Mask vs Mask), 7/9/93
> 10. Pirata Morgan vs El Faraon (Hair vs Hair), 11/16/90
> 11. El Hijo Del Santo vs Brazo De Oro (Mask vs Hair), 1/13/91
> 12. El Mariachi vs Blue Panther, 10/30/94
> 13. Ciclon Ramirez vs Javier Cruz (Hair vs Hair), 6/10/94
> 14. Atlantis/Brazo De Oro/El Dandy/Mascara Magica/La Fiera/***** Casas/Shocker/Ultimo Dragon vs Black Warrior/Dr. Wagner Jr./El Hijo Del Santo/Felino/Kevin Quinn/Satanico/Scorpio Jr./Silver King, 4/18/97
> 15. El Hijo del Santo vs. Felino, 7/4/97
> 16. Rayo De Jalisco Jr. vs Apolo Dantes, 5/31/96
> 17. Octagon vs Fuerza Guerrera, 11/1/91
> 18. Mascarita Sagrada vs Espectrito I, 3/12/94
> 19. Silver King vs Apolo Dantes, 6/23/95
> 20. Dr. Wagner Jr./El Hijo Del Santo/El Texano/La Fiera/Mascara Magica/Mr. Niebla/Shocker vs Black Warrior/El Dandy/Felino/Mano Negra/***** Casas/Scorpio Jr./Silver King, 3/28/97


Where's Saint and Octogon vs Los Gringos?


----------



## New Blood

acracker said:


> Where's Saint and Octogon vs Los Gringos?


Not many hardcore lucha fans are into that match (meaning the WWC match). At least the ones that I've encounter. Plus, OJ isn't that much of a AAA fan.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I don't think it's a case of only "hardcore lucha fans" not digging it as opposed to it just plain not being very good. 

Irrespective of whether you like AAA or not, I can't imagine too many people that've seen a decent amount of 90s lucha thinking the WWC match is one of the top 20 lucha matches of the entire decade. 

Decent comparison might be the Steiners match that won the Observer MOTY for '91. Good "gateway" to puro at the time, but doesn't hold up to a shit ton of stuff over time. The WWC match is sort of the same for lucha.


----------



## Yeah1993

Never even heard of some of the stuff OJ's got listed there. Way different to what I would put out. Thought the Santo/Felino match from 98 was their best by far and the big Santo/Casas from 97 is probably my best Mexican match ever. Lack of Santo/Casas/Dandy 'Triangle' match is a little :sad: as well.


----------



## New Blood

Yeah1993 said:


> Never even heard of some of the stuff OJ's got listed there. Way different to what I would put out. Thought the Santo/Felino match from 98 was their best by far and the big Santo/Casas from 97 is probably my best Mexican match ever. Lack of Santo/Casas/Dandy 'Triangle' match is a little :sad: as well.


From what I've heard, he's not a big fan of Santo/Casas 97 which makes me a sad panda.

Everyone needs to see Trio Fantasia v. Thundercats, (Masks vs. Masks), 12/8/91. One of the best tag matches that I've ever seen and it's also bloody. Good times.


----------



## New Blood

I wonder if ***** Casas has ever had a match with Ric Flair. Could you imagine both of them working opposite of each other at their primes? I remember watching Jericho's DVD and on one of the commentaries, he mentioned that he was trained by Casas and compared him to Flair.


----------



## New Blood

So I watched ***** Casas/El Dandy from July 92 last night and man alive was that amazing. It's a shame that wrestling fans seem to picture lucha as this mindless spotfest thing that's a couple notches below Dragon Gate when it's really quite the opposite. This match only had a couple missile drop kicks from Casas and El Dandy climbed the top rope to land on Casas on the outside and that was around the half hour mark. The rest of the match was some of the best mat work int he history of wrestling.

What I love about lucha mat work is that they are scientifically very sound, have some of the most innovative submissions and counters and are able to keep it incredibly entertaining and not dull at all whereas in the U.S. a lot of wrestlers struggle to keep the mat sections of their matches entertaining.


----------



## jpchicago23

Where did you find that match at? I definitely wanna see that one


----------



## New Blood

jpchicago23 said:


> Where did you find that match at? I definitely wanna see that one


I found it at WKO. It's definitely one to seek out for sure. If I knew how to rip and upload matches, I'd put up quite a few classics on the forum. This place desperately needs more lucha.


----------



## jpchicago23

i have no clue what WKO is but someone definitely needs to tell you how to upload because you are right this site lacks a lot of really good lucha. I'm not as into the total spot fest stuff i want to see a lot more El Dandy and that kind of thing. The spot happy matches can be fun but in small doses


----------



## Yeah1993

You can download Casas/Dandy here; http://www.filecrop.com/el-dandy-vs.-*****-casas.html


----------



## WrestlingFoLife

I've always felt that Blue Panther is Mexico's Ric Flair but I can certainly see the comparison between Casas and Flair.


----------



## LariatSavage

That 2 out of 3 falls from July 92 was awesome. I loved the build up. The crowd was hot. The referee and ***** Casas' corner man were feeding the match. I didn't know the match was 2 out of 3 falls until after the 1st commercial break, and I was bummed how it ended. I was pleasantly surprised to see the match continue. That was probably the first time I ever watch El Dandy outside of America, and that was only time I've seen ***** Casas' that I can remember. I'd give this match five stars for sure, and I'm looking forward to watching some more off that list Yeah1993 posted.


----------



## smitlick

This isn't exactly Stuff straight out of Mexico but most of its Lucha based

*WWE - 24/7 - Shorties - Lucha Libre*

- Note not all of the matches are shown in full so my ratings are effected.

*1. June 23, 1989 - AWA - War In The Windy City*
The Guerreros vs The Texas Hangmen & The Executioner
**

*2. April 3, 1999 - ECW - Cyberslam*
Super Crazy vs Mosco de la Merced
**1/2

*3. April 7, 1997 - ECW*
Taka Michinoku, Terry Boy & Dick Togo vs Great Sasuke, Gran Hamada & Masato Yakushiji
***1/2

*4. April 25, 1978 - Championship Wrestling*
Mil Mascaras, Larry Zbyszko & Haystacks Calhoun vs Strong Kobayashi, Tank Patton & The Golden Terror
*1/2

*5. October 17, 1995 - ECW - 2 out of 3 Falls Match*
Rey Mysterio vs Psicosis
***1/4-***1/2

*6. October 26, 1997 - WCW - Halloween Havoc - Mask vs Title Match*
Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero
****

*7. November 21, 1982 - Madison Square Garden*
Tiger Mask vs Jose Estrada
**1/4

*8. January 23, 1996 - WCW - Clash of Champions 32*
Konnan vs Psicosis
**3/4

*9. May 26, 1997 - WCW - Nitro*
Juventud Guerrera, Super Calo & Hector Garza vs La Parka, Ciclope & Damien
***

*10. April 11, 1999 - WCW - Spring Stampede*
Blitzkrieg vs Juventud Guerrera
***1/2


----------



## New Blood

****** Casas/El Dandy/Hector Garza vs. El Hijo del Santo/Scorpio Jr./Bestia Salvaje [CMLL 11/29/96]*
Coming a week after Santito's shocking heel turn, comes this amazing and bloody brawl. This has to be seen to be believed. How this wasn't on DVDVR's Top 20 Lucha matches of the 90s yet a ton of AAA matches were is beyond me.
"***** CASAS/DANDY/HECTOR GARZA vs. HIJO DEL SANTO/SCORPIO JR/BESTIA SALVAJE - EMLL 11/96
(POGO PETE)
The grudge match coming off Santito's unthinkable rudo turn the previous week, and the tecnicos are out for his blood. This is the Brawl With It All - ungodly heat (when Santo hits the ring and mockingly blows kisses to the crowd, even the piss-poor Televisa audio mix can't hide the fact that these folks would like nothing better than to see his ass on a platter), insane violence (Santo rips a set of ringside chairs off its moorings so he can level a bloodied Dandy with them) and perhaps the ultimate death-for-your-pleasure highspot (Garza tries a Shooting Star Press to the floor and accidentally invents the German Air Show Senton in the process). Dr. Morales marks out about a half-dozen times, the crowd is at a froth the whole time, Bestia is in tears at the end and ***** LAUGHS IN HIS FACE like a maniac. Unbelievably intense and dramatic. American bookers should be strapped in their chairs and forced to watch this Clockwork Orange-style to see how to book revenge matches."

This sets up the classic El Hijo del Santo vs. ***** Casas vs. El Dandy the next month and then the mask vs. hair match a year later between Santo and Casas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0D43mxBlFg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfW4mvHJ5HY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVhYYiDQj00&feature=related


----------



## New Blood

*El Dandy vs. Black Warrior [CMLL 11/2/96]*
What a fantastic match that has a little bit of everything in it. It's a perfectly sound technical bout with some great lucha high spots thrown in for good measure. Not having seen a lot of El Dandy, I was really impressed with his technical prowess and Black Warrior could more than keep up. A ton of nearfalls which rack up the drama and bringing the crowd closer to the edge of their seats. Just really neat stuff.

Just read one of Ohtani Jacket's reviews and I gotta check this match out:


> El Dandy vs. Javier Llanes, CMLL Middleweight Championship, 3/11/94
> 
> This was the toughest thing I've seen in ages... If people think lucha isn't real wrestling, they need to watch this match. Never before have I see two guys wrestle with such ferocity. It takes practice to make this look believable, and an even greater commitment to go out there and do it as a work, and the close-ups of both guys were more than just selling, they showed effort and bloody-minded determination.
> 
> In many ways this was like a sparring session in a gym. At the least there was something basic to it, as there were little or no strikes and neither guy was willing to submit. In this day and age, almost everything that's written or said about wrestling is cynical, but this match, whether it was a con or not, was pure sport. To that end, I was disappointed when the first fall ended off the ropes and thrilled when Llanes took the second by submission, and while they began to tire in the third and it became noticable that Llanes was feeding Dandy his arm, even the carny finish couldn't ruin what was a pure display of submission based wrestling.
> 
> One of the joys of lucha is guys submitting instantaneously to crazy looking submission holds, but this was rooted in the style that Diablo Velazco, Gori Guerrero and Enrique Llanes trained these men in. An inaccurate description of it might be 70s style matwork with a worked shoot intensity. I say inaccurate because matwork was around long before the 70s, but as a guy who watches old tapes those are the parameters. I've seen it compared to Dandy's match with Navarro, but I thought this was far more intense.
> 
> It's curious then that this match should pop up in 1994 CMLL. This era of CMLL is notable for a number of bare-bone classics, but nothing with matwork to compare to this. Anyway, if you want to watch a match with incredible wristlock work or vein popping submissions, do yourself a favour.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

That Black Warrior match is good, but you really aught to look to '89-'92 for some really great Dandy. There's a lot of worthwhile Dandy post-'92 (the Llanes match is awesome), but he was at his peak during that four year spell starting in '89.


----------



## smkelly13

Goodhelmet made an el Dandy compilation.

Match Listing:
[hide]Disc 1
El Dandy vs. Javier Cruz (Fair VQ) (EMLL 10/26/84)
El Dandy, Talisman y Fuerza Guerrera vs. Rocca, Valaquez y Galactica (EMLL 3/22/85)
El Dandy, Talisman y Guerrero ***** vs. Los Javieres (EMLL 3/21/87)
El Dandy, Talisman y Guerrero ***** vs. Los Javieres (EMLL 1987)
El Dandy, Magico y Superastro vs. Gran Cochise, Javier Cruz y Javier Rocca (EMLL 11/11/87)

Disc 2
El Dandy, Super Muneco y Texano vs. Atlantis, Blue Demon Jr y Angel Azteca (EMLL 3/24/89)
El Dandy & El Texano vs. Atlantis & Angel Azteca (EMLL 3/31/89)
El Dandy y Apolo Dantes vs. Cien Caras y Mascara Ano 2000 (EMLL 5/12/89)
El Dandy, Atlantis y Popitekus vs. Pirata Morgan, Gran Markus y Ulises (EMLL 5/26/89)
El Dandy vs. Emilio Charles Jr. (EMLL 7/28/89)

Disc 3
El Dandy y Satanico vs. MS1 y El Masakre (EMLL 8/11/89)
El Dandy, Javier Cruz y Eddy Guerrero vs. Jerry Estrada, Ary Romero y Rick Patterson (EMLL 10/6/89)
El Dandy, Mascara Sagrada y Atlantis vs. Emilio Charles Jr., MS1 y Tierra, Viento y Fuego (EMLL 11/25/89)
El Dandy vs. Emilio Charles Jr. (EMLL 12/1/89)
El Dandy, Mogur y Popitekus vs. Pierroth Jr., MS1 y Ulises (EMLL 1/5/90)

Disc 4
El Dandy, Angel Azteca y El Texano vs. Fuerza Guerrera, Pierroth Jr. y Jerry Estrada (EMLL 3/2/90)
El Dandy, Chavo Guerrero y El Texano vs. Angel Azteca, Americo Rocca y Javier Cruz (EMLL 3/9/90)
El Dandy, Chavo Guerrero y El Texano vs. Angel Azteca, Americo Rocca y Javier Cruz (EMLL 3/16/90)
El Dandy vs. Angel Azteca (Shaky) (EMLL 3/23/90)

Disc 5
El Dandy, El Gran Hamada y El Satanico vs. Pirata Morgan, Angel Blanco Jr. y Emilio Charles Jr. (EMLL 4/6/90)
El Dandy, El Satanico y Atlantis vs. Ulises, MS1 y Emilio Charles Jr. (EMLL 5/4/90)
El Dandy, El Satanico y Emilio Charles Jr. vs. Atlantis, Javier Cruz y Angel Azteca (EMLL 5/11/90)
El Dandy, El Satanico y Emilio Charles Jr. vs. Atlantis, Angel Azteca y Javier Cruz (EMLL 5/18/90)
El Dandy y Angel Azteca vs. Javier Cruz y Emilio Charles Jr. (EMLL 5/25/90)

Disc 6
El Dandy vs. Angel Azteca (EMLL 6/1/90)
EL Dandy y El Satanico vs. Angel Azteca y Atlantis (EMLL 6/15/90)
El Dandy, Javier Cruz y El Satanico vs. Ringo Mendoza, Masakre y MS1 (EMLL 7/27/90)
El Dandy, Rayo De Jalisco Jr. y Satanico vs. Cien Caras, Mascara Ano 2000 y MS-1 (EMLL 8/17/90)
El Dandy, Atlantis y Ringo Mendoza vs. Perro Aguayo, Kung Fu y El Satanico (EMLL 10/19/90)

Disc 7
El Dandy vs. El Satanico (EMLL 10/26/90)
El Dandy, Sangre Chicana y Lizmark vs. El Satanico, Emilio Charles Jr. y Jerry Estrada (EMLL 11/9/90)
El Dandy vs. El Satanico (Hair Match) (EMLL 12/14/90)
El Dandy, Super Astro y Popetikus vs. Los Brazos (EMLL 5/3/91)
El Dandy, Super Astro y Kato Kung Lee vs. Fuerza Guerrera, Kung Fu y Jerry Estrada (EMLL 5/17/91)

Disc 8
El Dandy, Black Magic y Apolo Dantes vs. Javier Cruz, Pierroth Jr. y Blue Panther (CMLL 8/16/91)
El Dandy vs. El Satanico (Hair Match) (CMLL 12/6/91)
El Dandy vs. ***** Casas (Snowy reception/ Fair VQ) (CMLL 7/3/92)
El Dandy vs. Emilio Charles Jr. (CMLL 11/21/93)

Disc 9
El Dandy vs. Javier Llanes (CMLL 3/11/94)
El Dandy, Silver King & El Texano vs. Chris Benoit, El Vampiro y Rayo de Jalisco Jr. (CMLL 7/8/94)
El Dandy, Bestia Salvaje y ***** Casas vs. Corazon De Leon, Felino y Ultimo Dragon (CMLL 3/3/95)
El Dandy, El Hijo Del Santo y Hector Garza vs. Black Panther, Blue Panther y Fuerza Guerrera (CMLL 11/10/95)
El Dandy, El Hijo Del Santo y Silver King vs. ***** Casas, Apolo Dantes y El Satanico (CMLL 2/10/96)

Disc 10
El Dandy, Atlantis y Hector Garza vs. Apolo Dantes, Dr. Wagner Jr. y Felino (CMLL 6/96)
El Dandy vs. Black Warrior (CMLL 10/15/96)
El Dandy, ***** Casas y Hector Garza vs. El Hijo Del Santo, Scorpio Jr y Bestia Salvaje (CMLL 11/29/96)
El Dandy vs. El Hijo del Santo vs. ***** Casas (CMLL 12/6/96)

Disc 11
El Dandy, ***** Casas, Atlantis, Ultimo Dragon, Mascara Magica, Shocker, La Fiera y Brazo De Oro vs. El Hijo del Santo, Dr. Wagner, Jr., Felino, Scorpio, Jr., Black Warrior, Kevin Quinn, Satanico y Silver King (16 Man Cibernetico Match) (CMLL 4/18/97)
El Dandy, La Parka, Psicosis & Silver King vs. Juventud Guerrera, Super Calo, Chavo Guerrero Jr. & Lizmark Jr. (Souled Out 1/24/98)
El Dandy, Super Calo y Hector Garza vs. Juventud Guerrera, Psicosis y Blitzkrieg (Nitro 2/15/99)
El Dandy, Dr. Wagner Jr., Silver King, & Bestia Salvaje vs. Super Parka, Antifaz, Felino & Mr. Niebla (Monterrey 7/23/00)
El Dandy, Silver King & Arandu vs. La Parka, Silver Star & Hijo Del Santo (Monterrey 8/22/00) (JIP)

Disc 12
El Dandy vs. Antifaz Del Norte (Monterrey 9/17/00)
El Dandy vs. ***** Navarro (IWRG 11/8/01)
El Dandy, Ultimo Vampiro y Fantasma vs. Bomber Infernal, ***** Navarro y Pantera (IWRG 3/14/02)
El Dandy y Fantasma vs. ***** Navarro y Pantera (IWRG 4/4/02)

Disc 13
El Dandy vs. Hijo del Perro Aguayo (AAA 8/31/02)
El Dandy vs. Hijo del Perro Aguayo vs. Electroshock vs. Mr. Aguila – (Cage match) (AAA 9/2/02)
El Dandy vs. Hijo del Perro Aguayo (AAA 2/28/03)
El Dandy vs. Heavy Metal (Chain Match) (AAA 5/3/03)
El Dandy, Super Crazy y Ultimo Guerrero vs. Damian 666, Halloween y Nicho El Millonario (Lucha Libra Azteca 7/11/04)
El Dandy vs. L.A. Par-K (2004 Match of the Year) (ENESMA 10/29/04)
“Who are you to doubt El Dandy?”[/hide]

Personally, I'm not a huge Lucha fan, as the lack of physicality bothers me. Now, I'm not saying all Lucha lacks it, but the majority of what I've seen does. To be honest, my favorite Lucha matches took place in ECW when Misterio/Psicosis/Juventud invaded. "Extreme Lucha Libre" indeed.


----------



## LariatSavage

Been watching Luchamania Battle for Mexico on Netflix instant streaming. It's about the Battle for Mexico between Rey Mysterio Sr and Psicosis... Absolutely awesome blood feud!


----------



## New Blood

*Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Psicosis [AAA 9/22/95]*
Upon rewatching this, I'm actually disappointed with this match. When I was just getting into lucha, this was my #1 match but this isn't the best lucha match that I've seen from 1995. I'm going to get some slack for this but I prefer Rey's work that he's done in the WWE over what he was doing in Mexico as I feel that even though he couldn't do the same breathtaking spots, he had to use actual storytelling and psychology to get his work over and in my opinion, he's easily the best worker in the WWE along with Daniel Bryan. Onto the match, maybe it's because I've been watching a lot of early 90s CMLL but this lacks any of the real smooth technique and mastery of the likes of Dandy or Casas and is more of a spotfest but I guess that's the point of the match. Too bad that I don't really like spotfests. Well, I did mark out when Psicosis goes for a spot because he's so out of control and I love that. I consider him one of the best bumpers in the business at the time along with Foley and Sabu. Not an out and out terrible match, in the case of a spotfest, it's a pretty good one and people should seek it out but at this point of my lucha viewing this doesn't do much for me. I do love their ECW 10/7/95 match.


----------



## smkelly13

Not to contradict what you just said, but the people who have reviewed it on Netflix (http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Luchamania_La_Batalla_por_Mexico/70102624?trkid=2361637) seem to disagree with you. Is it as bad as they say it is?


----------



## smkelly13

New Blood said:


> *Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Psicosis [AAA 9/22/95]*
> Upon rewatching this, I'm actually disappointed with this match. When I was just getting into lucha, this was my #1 match but this isn't the best lucha match that I've seen from 1995. I'm going to get some slack for this but I prefer Rey's work that he's done in the WWE over what he was doing in Mexico as I feel that even though he couldn't do the same breathtaking spots, he had to use actual storytelling and psychology to get his work over and in my opinion, he's easily the best worker in the WWE along with Daniel Bryan. Onto the match, maybe it's because I've been watching a lot of early 90s CMLL but this lacks any of the real smooth technique and mastery of the likes of Dandy or Casas and is more of a spotfest but I guess that's the point of the match. Too bad that I don't really like spotfests. Well, I did mark out when Psicosis goes for a spot because he's so out of control and I love that. I consider him one of the best bumpers in the business at the time along with Foley and Sabu. Not an out and out terrible match, in the case of a spotfest, it's a pretty good one and people should seek it out but at this point of my lucha viewing this doesn't do much for me. I do love their ECW 10/7/95 match.


I love their ECW series. I have, to an extent, similar tastes in lucha. However, I like a blend of both mat work and highspots. Too much of one is always bad, and not enough of the other is also, bad.


----------



## New Blood

I'm watching a bit of the Luchamania video and it is L-A-M-E lame. Although the announcers voice is epic in the vein of 80s instructional videos.


----------



## LariatSavage

New Blood said:


> I'm watching a bit of the Luchamania video and it is L-A-M-E lame. Although the announcers voice is epic in the vein of 80s instructional videos.





smkelly13 said:


> Not to contradict what you just said, but the people who have reviewed it on Netflix (http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Luchamania_La_Batalla_por_Mexico/70102624?trkid=2361637) seem to disagree with you. Is it as bad as they say it is?



The production is horrid, but the feud itself is awesome. The commentary is so bad it's funny.


----------



## smkelly13

Is it in the same vein as the StrangleMania videos? Are they full matches?


----------



## smitlick

*DVDVR - Top 20 Lucha Matches of the 90's*

Disc One

*20. CMLL - 23/5/93*
Ciclon Ramirez vs Felino
***1/2

*19. AAA - 29/1/93*
Rey Mysterio Jr, Super Calo & Winners vs Psicosis, Heavy Metal & Picudo
****

*18. CMLL - 26/11/99 - 16 Man Cibernetico*
El Hijo Del Santo, Antifaz del Norte, Olimpico, Tarzan Boy, Tony Rivera, Felino, ***** Casas & Emilio Charles Jr vs Rey Bucanero, Ultimo Guerrero, Black Warrior, Satanico, Bestia Salvaje, Blue Panther, Fuerza Guerrera & Zumbido
***1/2
Fun but much too clipped.

Disc Two

*17. CMLL - 3/9/97 - CMLL Light Heavyweight Title Match*
Mr Niebla vs Dr Wagner Jr
****

*16. CMLL - 3/10/97*
Bracito De Oro, Cicloncito Ramirez & Mascarita Magica vs Damiancito El Guerrero, El Fierito & Pierrothito
****

*15. AAA - 3/4/92 - Mask vs Mask*
Blue Panther vs Love Machine
***1/2

Will get through the rest eventually.


----------



## USAUSA1

AAA is definitely on fire this year, their shows is blowing out CMLL.


----------



## smitlick

*DVDVR - Top 20 Lucha Matches of the 90's*

Disc 3

*14. CMLL - 10/6/94 - Hair vs Hair Match*
Javier Cruz vs Ciclon Ramirez
****

*13. Tijuana - 16/3/96*
Rey Mysterio Jr vs Juventud Guerrera
***3/4-****

*12. AAA - 16/6/95 - WWA Lightweight Title*
Rey Mysterio Jr vs Juventud Guerrera
****-****1/4

*11. UWA - 26/1/92*
Pegasus Kid vs Villano III
****1/4

Disc 4

*10. CMLL - 23/6/95*
Silver King vs Apollo Dantes
****

*9. AAA - 12/1/96*
Psicosis & Juventud Guerrera vs El Volador & El Mexicano
***1/2-***3/4

*8. AAA - 16/3/95*
El Hijo del Santo, Octagon & Rey Mysterio Jr vs Fuerza Guerrera, Psicosis & Blue Panther
****-****1/4

Disc Five

*7. CMLL - 19/9/97 - Mask vs Hair*
El Hijo Del Santo vs ***** Casas
****-****1/4

*6. AAA - 3/5/95 - WWA Lightweight Title*
El Hijo Del Santo vs Psicosis
****1/4

*5. CMLL - 6/12/96 - Mask vs Hair vs Hair*
El Hijo Del Santo vs ***** Casas vs El Dandy
****1/4-****1/2

*4. AAA - 21/4/95 - WWA Lightweight Title*
Rey Mysterio Jr vs Juventud Guerrera
****1/4-****1/2

Disc Six

*3. AAA - 22/9/95*
Psicosis vs Rey Mysterio Jr
****1/2

*2. AAA - 6/11/94 - Mask vs Hair*
El Hijo Del Santo & Octagon vs Love Machine & Eddy Guerrero
*****

*1. CMLL - 18/4/97 - 16 Man Cibernetico*
***** Casas, Atlantis, Ultimo Dragon, El Dandy, Mascara Magica, Shocker, La Fiera & Brazo De Oro
vs
El Hijo Del Santo, Dr Wagner Jr, Felino, Scorpio Jr, Black Warrior, Kevin Quinn, Satanico & Silver King
*****

While i certainly didnt feel everything on this set was correct. The last disc is worth the price alone. Two fantastic matches. I assume pretty much everyone has seen the tag but the Cibernetico is just as good if not better.


----------



## New Blood

Pretty cool to see a non-lucha fan review some lucha. My ratings of the matches would differ. I'm not a fan of the When World's Collide match anymore and it's one of my least favorite matches on the set. There's a match from a year before that where they had a 40+ minute match and it told a better story in my opinion. At least this match had really great crowd heat.

El Hijo del Santo vs. ***** Casas, in my opinion, is by far the best match on the set. In fact, I thought it rivaled Misawa/Kobashi and Hart/Austin as best match from 1997. I also think that context should be made for the matches on the set as this was stemming from a rivalry they've had since the 80s and this time Santito is the rudo.

Cibernetico would be #2 in my rankings of the set. Too bad when the voting took place, everyone was into AAA, which was the most that was available, but the voting would be very different as a lot of early 90s EMLL is now available and those matches blow away any of the AAA matches on the set.


----------



## Yeah1993

Santo/Casas is imo match of the year for 97 and Cicloncito/Damiancito or Misawa/Kobashi would be the runner up. All three of those are top 10 of all time contenders as well. 1997 is fucking RIDICULOUS.


----------



## smitlick

New Blood said:


> Pretty cool to see a non-lucha fan review some lucha. My ratings of the matches would differ. I'm not a fan of the When World's Collide match anymore and it's one of my least favorite matches on the set. There's a match from a year before that where they had a 40+ minute match and it told a better story in my opinion. At least this match had really great crowd heat.
> 
> El Hijo del Santo vs. ***** Casas, in my opinion, is by far the best match on the set. In fact, I thought it rivaled Misawa/Kobashi and Hart/Austin as best match from 1997. I also think that context should be made for the matches on the set as this was stemming from a rivalry they've had since the 80s and this time Santito is the rudo.
> 
> Cibernetico would be #2 in my rankings of the set. Too bad when the voting took place, everyone was into AAA, which was the most that was available, but the voting would be very different as a lot of early 90s EMLL is now available and those matches blow away any of the AAA matches on the set.


Yeah some of my ratings are probably effected by my lack of knowledge but it was still a very good set and a very good way to get to know a few more Lucha guys that i wasn't overly familiar with.


----------



## your ass is grass

Yeah1993 said:


> Santo/Casas is imo match of the year for 97 and Cicloncito/Damiancito or Misawa/Kobashi would be the runner up. All three of those are top 10 of all time contenders as well. 1997 is fucking RIDICULOUS.


disagreed


----------



## Yeah1993

top 5 for 97 your ass is grass


----------



## your ass is grass

Yeah1993 said:


> top 5 for 97 your ass is grass


from now on you have to use commas periods and all other forms of punctuation in all of your posts

Cibernetico 4/18/97
Kohsaka vs Yamamoto 4/4/97
Tenryu vs Fujiwara 11/24/97
Han vs Tamura 1/22/97
Eddy vs Rey from Halloween Havoc


----------



## smkelly13

1997 was an excellent year, wrestling wise. Agreed?


----------



## Yeah1993

your ass is grass said:


> from now on you have to use commas periods and all other forms of punctuation in all of your posts
> 
> Cibernetico 4/18/97
> Kohsaka vs Yamamoto 4/4/97
> Tenryu vs Fujiwara 11/24/97
> Han vs Tamura 1/22/97
> Eddy vs Rey from Halloween Havoc


why (?) 

good choices (haven't watched Yamamoto/Kohsaka though).



smkelly13 said:


> 1997 was an excellent year, wrestling wise. Agreed?


Positively.


----------



## Yeah1993

double post w/e.

Blue Panther/***** Navarro v Solar/El Satanico (FMLL 5/3/11)
--Just awesome. Everyone here is well over 45 years old and they still work the mat better than 95% of wrestlers do in their peaks. Only goes two falls because of the demented finishes (which I won't bother touching on), but all up they get almost 30 minutes to work with and I adored every bit of it. There's a whole lot of arguing going on before the bell even starts and we open with Panther vs. Satanico which obv. leads to Navarro vs. Solar. There's only a certian amount of things those two can do after being filmed a billion times but I haven't gotten tired of it and I suspect I never will. There was one really awkwardly painful looking submission from Solar I don't recall ever seeing before though and it looked tremendous. They keep with the "both partners tag out simultaneously" trend through the whole thing, and, for whatever reason, it doesn't bother me a bit. Not here, not in WWE, not in WCW, not anywhere, and it really seems liek the kind of stupid thing that should bother my picky nerves. They swap things over come second fall and we get Solar vs. Panther, which, no joke, was the best part, like better than Navarro vs. Solar. They were moving stupidly fast for 50+ year olds and the counters and everyhing were executed better than any moves you'll see anywhere else. Satanico vs. Navarro was great as well obviously but Solar vs. Panther rocked my world sideways. I hate seeing Panther without his mask but he does some really good facial expressions. Like I said weirdly booked finish but just a great, great match and these four should be worshipped like giant island stone heads.


----------



## Noah Mark

Solar I & Trauma I vs ***** Navarro & Trauma II-4/2/11 GLC. This is has been my favorite lucha match this year. Navarro is just a technical wizard and he and Solar go thru their usual move set but it's just amazing each time I watch it. Traumas added to the match as well as it's a technical classic watching Navarro work against his student Trauma I. This match is worth going out of your way to see. I have posted a link to this match in the 2011 match of the year thread.


----------



## New Blood

Has anyone been keeping up with lucha this year?


----------



## chodnik

Lucha make good fight, lot of flight and reverse move.
Look on web for find more lucha wrestling.


----------



## smitlick

*AAA - Sin Limite - 4/2/11 (taped)*

1. Charly Manson, Cibernetico & Escoria vs Jack Evans, La Parka & Nicho El Millionario
DUD

Seriously this was just plain awful... AAA seemed to have commercial breaks at the most inconvenient times and the finish just seemed so out of no where all of the sudden. I had to rewind to actually see it. The match as a whole just seemed to be a mess.


----------



## TheAce

> Lucha make good fight, lot of flight and reverse move.
> Look on web for find more lucha wrestling.


That was helpfull.....:no:


----------



## seabs

*AAA matches generally are a total mess these days of the limitedish stuff I've seen.*


----------



## New Blood

I agree that AAA is pretty bad at times. Every once in a while they pull out something really cool. I need to rewatch Mesias vs. L.A. Park from last year but that was quite something.

The more I think about it, Comando ***** vs. Pollo from IWRG might be my favorite match from 2010. It has everything that I love from wrestling nowadays: the spectacle, hot crowds, brawling, blood, a guy in a chicken suit chucking chairs at his opponent's head, a midget in a chicken suit getting abused. If a wrestling fan can't love that then I don't know why they watch wrestling.


----------



## USAUSA1

AAA been pretty good this year especially La Park, he is just awesome. Everything you want in a lucha libre wrestler from workrate,comedy,charisma,toughness all roll into one. One of his best years.


----------



## VenturaPt

milkman7 said:


> So far IWRG has been on fire this year, as is par, but people really need to check out the ***** Navarro/Black Terry vs Apache/Angel Imortal tags from January.
> 
> 1/9/11
> First Fall - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd06OAo5mIg
> Second Fall - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UsTZEObNRc
> Third Fall - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sT2l6urJ0I
> 
> 1/16/11
> First Fall - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScaQImyk7vU
> Second and Third Falls - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVpB5zt7_r8


Amen. God, ***** and Terry are fucking awesome.


----------



## Romero79

Bring Mexican wrestling back to BT Vision!


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Watching (or in some cases re-watching) some AAA on Goodhelmet's 1993 yearbook, and Konnan might have a case for the worst wrestler ever. Not talking about wrestlers that were around for one match, clearly sucked and were never heard from again (because they sucked THAT bad); I'm talking in terms of guys that've had long (or semi-long) and/or successful (or semi-successful) careers, and Konnan is pretty much the bottom of the barrel in that category for me. Literally can't think of anything he does well. Actually he gets kicked in the dick by Cien Caras a lot so there's that, at least.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

VenturaPt said:


> Amen. God, ***** and Terry are fucking awesome.


This. Discovered the gods that are Black Terry and ***** Navarro in early 2010 and they've provided great entertainment ever since. Terry in particular is just an amazing brawler as well as his bumping and slick matwork and the Navarro/Solar exchanges just never tire despite them locking up on a weekly basis lol.

**** for the 09/01/11 and 16/01/11 tags as well


----------



## LariatSavage

Just finished TripleMania 18... PINFALL Magazine Review: TripleMania 2011


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*Damiancito El Guerrero v Cicloncito Ramirez, CMLL 01/07/1997*

FUCKING MINI's MAN!! These guys are like no bigger than 5"3 but some of the stuff they do would shame men of normal height. Sensational matwork, slick counters, a breathtaking pace with all the moves executed crisply and no room for error. All the fancy stuff was built up to superbly well and these two have most likely become one of my favourite match-ups in wrestling. There's probably a few more matches I _might_ put ahead of this as 'a better match' but I don't think any match will top this as a personal favourite. *******

watch it here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/n3pr3i


*Pierrotito/El Fierito/Damiancito El Guerrero v Cicloncito Ramirez/Bracito De Oro/Mascarita Magica, CMLL 03/10/1997*

Probably up there with the Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi v Jumbo/Taue/Fauchi 6 mans from All Japan. At present I may only put Misawa/Kobashi v Taue/Kawada 9/6/95 and Misawa/Akiyama v Taue/Kawada 6/12/96 ahead of this in terms of tags. Like the above match the matwork is sensational, some innovative counters I've never seen before, Damiancito and Cicloncito tear it up once again. The dives are all built up to and the third caida is brilliant. *****/3/4*

watch it here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/msasoz


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

That trios is probably my #2 trios/six-man of all time. I'd take the 4/91 All Japan six-man over it, but I can't think of anything else. 

I think Damiancito/Cicloncito is the best match ever, period.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Andy3000 said:


> That trios is probably my #2 trios/six-man of all time. I'd take the 4/91 All Japan six-man over it, but I can't think of anything else.
> 
> I think Damiancito/Cicloncito is the best match ever, period.


Yeah I wouldn't argue with anyone who puts it as the best match ever, I'm half and half between that and Misawa/Kawada 3/6/1994 at present. Just an insane match.

Props to you on the blog btw, one of the best reads I've had over the past few months


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I've barely watched any post-92 All Japan in *years*, so I usually don't bother commenting on stuff like 6/9/95, 6/3/94, the '96 Tag League final, etc., but I can't imagine those usual suspects not holding up as being potential GOAT level whenever I get around to them again. Although I think I'm about the only person in the world that thought the '93 Tag League final was the best AJ match ever (I'll get to watching that again soon).

Only non-AJ singles matches that come to mind as being on the same level as that minis match are Flair/Steamboat from the Clash (that match being the best ever is probably an outdated opinion these days, but I still love it), the '85 Lawler/Dundee loser leaves town match, Santo/Casas from '97 and Dandy/Casas from '92.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Andy3000 said:


> I've barely watched any post-92 All Japan in *years*, so I usually don't bother commenting on stuff like 6/9/95, 6/3/94, the '96 Tag League final, etc., but I can't imagine those usual suspects not holding up as being potential GOAT level whenever I get around to them again. Although I think I'm about the only person in the world that thought the '93 Tag League final was the best AJ match ever (I'll get to watching that again soon).
> 
> Only non-AJ singles matches that come to mind as being on the same level as that minis match are Flair/Steamboat from the Clash (that match being the best ever is probably an outdated opinion these days, but I still love it), the '85 Lawler/Dundee loser leaves town match, Santo/Casas from '97 and Dandy/Casas from '92.


I've seen all of those bar the Lawler/Dundee match. Been checking out the 'Complete & Accurate Jerry Lawler' blog on segunda caida and think I'll watch a bunch of the matches as I'm doing a mini project of "hidden gems" and Lawler to many is only known for his commentary and not the classic memphis brawls. Dandy/Casas was sensational as was Dandy/Llanes 94, I remember loving Santo/Casas as well as the 3 way with Dandy, Santo in general is a guy I'm high on for his ability to work technical as well as the hardcore brawling of a mask v hair match.

Hoping to track down some more Black Terry and ***** Navarro as well, two mean dudes who mix slick matwork with brilliant brawling. Terry is probably my favourite guy going atm bar Takayama or Danielson.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I think I've watched 5 wrestling matches from 2011, but if Terry is still tearing it up this year like he was last year then I seriously doubt he wouldn't be my pick for current best in the world. Finlay should go to IWRG and wrestle Terry and Navarro a bunch of times. Fuck, Finlay and Terry against the Traumas would be six stars. Actually Finlay against any decent maestro would probably rule. Throw him in with Solar for a while and let something happen.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

there's a couple of good tags involving him from 09/01/2011 and 16/01/11. IIRC the first match is a more respectful match which breaks down into a brawl and the 16/01/2011 match is basically the culmination of that into a proper IWRG brawl. Seen a few other matches involivng him and he's his usual awesome self, Blue Panther/Navarro v Solar/El Sataninco might be something you'd be interested in, IIRC its on youtube and goes 30 minutes. Be prepared for some WTF finishes though


----------



## Clari8482

jpchicago23 said:


> Does CMLL come on Directv? I've seen AAA on Galavision but not CMLL


Yes it does! Channel 404 on Saturdays!!

Does anyone know why I'm no longer seeing lucha libre triple A on directv???


----------



## Yeah1993

From memory I'd only put 3/6/94, 9/6/95, RWTL 93 finals, Misawa/Kobashi 20/1/97, COTC6, WrestleWar 89, Santo/Casas 97, Casas/Dandy 92, Jumbo/Misawa 1/9/90 and maybe Panther/Atlantis 91, Flair/Windham 86 & Jumbo/Tenryu 89 over Cicloncito/Damiancito. If you asked me in two hours I'd probably change my opinion since I can't hold one down for shit. Just an excellent, excellent match. I'm not as big on the RWTL 96 finals as others. It's MOTY for me but it never screamed top 10.

My opinion of the AJPW 22/5/92 six-man being the best 6-man ever seems pretty unpopular. I think that'd be the only six man I'd put ahead of the 97 minis trio, maybe 20/4/91. I'd put 22/5/92 ahead of RWTL 96 as well.

That Satanico/Solar vs Navarro/panther match is bloody great. haven't seen a huge chunk of non-WWE stuff this year but it's def. MOTY for me. Seen no IWRG in 2011 yet.


----------



## StylinProfilin

Never have known much about Lucha. I know AAA and CMLL are top promotions. Who are the big stars in each one? How many big shows a year? Who is doing better business? Who puts on better wrestling? 

Would love to know all these answers. 

I think the puro guys tend to wrestle more in CMLL and US Indy guys are seen more in AAA??


----------



## StylinProfilin

Been researching, I found out that..

CMLL definitely seems like the real deal. They are very conservative, they barely do any gimmick matches, except for a cage match like once a year. They have been around since 1933 which makes them the longest running promotion, I think. Both Sin Cara(Mistico) and Alberto Del Rio(Dos Caras Jr.) came from there, not sure who else. Titles don't change hands as frequently. I watched a few matches and the action is really good. CMLL looks like a great wrestling company that I'm going to start investing time in to watch. When I get back home, I am also going to see if I get them on tv.

Still need to check out more AAA, but they seem like TNA lol.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*El Satanico vs Gran Cochisse - CMLL 9/14/84 *

This was amazing, utterly magnificent. The story of how Satanico goes from clear rudo (whilst still operating to the rules albeit pushing the boundaries as far as possible) to underdog in the last caida is marvellous. The opening fall features some lovely mat work and trading of submissions, to many the ambiguity in how lucha falls can end (i.e even the most standard looking submission can win a fall) puts them off the style but watching this it only adds to the unpredictability in how the fall will play out and when you have 2 amazing workers like these two who know how to tease near falls, it doesn't get any better. The opening matwork builds a frustration in Satanico with the way he jostles with the ref over his shoulders not being on the mat and the anger with which he throws Cochisse to the mat. 

There's a strange spot where the ref makes Satanico wipe his injured arm but he seizes this opportunity to gain the momentum with a beautiful snapmare takedown and from there he controls the entire fall before winning with a submission. In Lucha generally the better matches have a clear structure whereby momentum is traded in the opening 2 falls with the object of establishing both men's ability so that in the deciding caida all bets are off as to who will lock in the killer submission or who will sneak a clever pinning combo. Thus Satanico dominating for a few minutes towards the end of the opening caida leaves the crowd immersed into how Cochisse will regain the momentum.

Satanico actually controls the beginnin of the next caida, again he pushes the limits with his rudo behaviour and rifles off some swank work designed on obliterating the left shoulder of Cochisse, but again its all 'legal'. Cochisse though in typical fashion manages to regain the momentum and slams Satanico to the mat. Here tradition would dictate Cochisse to submit Satanico given the weakened position Satanico is in..instead they tee off and mix running between the ropes. Usually this would be saved for the deciding fall where both men bust out everything in the arsenal..here its brilliant and Satanico has no answer for Cochisse.

We now enter the third caida and here is where a great match becomes magnificent. Satanico started as a clear rudo, by the opening stages of the third caida he's selling his ass off and making himself the ultimate underdog and Cochisse faking a handshake only adds to the story. Satancio has this great expression on the mat as if to say 'what the fuck, I was being a good sport you twat'. The trading of swank submissions and pinning combinations are marvellous and my favourite part of the match sees Satanico in a submission in the air before he breaks his injured arm free and slowly signals into a counter...and the crowd goes ballistic thinking he's about to score the upset. Instead we get a couple of sensational near falls before the finish, I won't spoil who wins but the finish is tremendous and the reaction is memorable.

This is Lucha at its finest IMO.

*****3/4*


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*Skayde & Solar v Shu El Guerrero & ***** Navarro, 11/01/2002*

Very cool match. 25 mins of excellent matwork with a nice story thrown in. Match is essentially split into Skayde trying to get the better of Shu El Guerrero who refuses to budge whilst Solar and Navarro demonstrate the super matwork that has got everyone raving for over 9 years. Only problem sadly is the copout finish we get from Solar and Navarro as once again they go to a draw with neither man being able to get the better of the other. Skayde looked really good as well and it was a shame he and Navarro didn't get to lock up as I'm sure they would have done if it had been the usual 2/3 falls match.

****3/4*


*Solar v ***** Navarro, AULL 16/05/2009*

Slick and engaging matwork which always feels like a struggle and which has a purpose, painfull stretching submissions and some insane moves for men this old. Continues to be the best pairing in wrestling at present, HOLY SHIT at a clean finish as well between them. No draws in this match.

******


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*Blue Panther v El Hijo Del Santo, Arena Coliseo Monterrey 9/04/2000*

Think this may be my MOTY for 2000 now just ahead of Jericho vs Hunter LMS and Takayama v Kobashi.

Great lucha is all about building each fall to create an epic swing in momentum which is ultimately decided in the deciding caida. Traditionally the opening two falls are traded between both wrestlers with each caida usually resembling a mini squash in making one competitor look unstoppable at the expense of the other. This is designed to make the victim of the first fall's struggle in reclaiming the momentum that much greater and it works a treat here.

The opening caida has some swank matwork with both wrestlers displaying their ability in locking submisson attempts at will. Santo though gains the momentum early and from there proves too much for Panther who looks hopelessly out of his depth as Santo surges ahead before picking up the fall with a lovely sunset flip.

The second caida now sets about how Panther gets back into the match. Again Santo gets the better in the early going and continuing the story that he has a counter for every attempt Panther throws at him. This is the shorter fall but ends with a fucking lovely Panther transition into a snap submission which Santo submits too immediately. To me the transition was wonderful as Panther went from looking hopelessly outclassed to demonstrating his techincal ability in submitting Santo within the blink of an eye. Now both men have demonstrated they have the other guy's number and that both men realistically can win the match in an instant.

The final caida is the best of the match and typically features both men going all out in a bid to win the match. Panther immediately sets about ripping Santo's arm out of his socket and locks in another submisson, Santo though manages to reverse it and attempts a submisson of his own. His selling throughout the fall is great and by the end both men in particular feel like they've been in a marathon. Santo hits beautiful dive through the crowd and I mean its a thing of friggin beauty. In between this Panther has learnt from his earlier mistake in the fall and sets about grounding Santo and locking in a leg submisson or any limb he can grab and tear at. I dug how it looked like he was still clueless as to how to pick at Santo without putting himself in a vulnerable position and this all builds to another gorgeous bit of aerial flying by Santo- he eats a gorgeous crossbody to the floor and the exectution is tremendous. This isn't a crossbody that is hit nicely but doesn't look impactful, this looks like it hurt a fucking bomb. With both men trading some gorgeous near falls Santo locks in his signature submission hold and looks to have the match won when the ref (who I'm guessing was more of a rudo ref) throws Santo off of Panther when he gets the rope. Santo argues and this leads to a close near fall before Santo gets a quick flurry of offence reminiscent of the opening caida only Panther counters a victory roll by grabbing the rope and winning the match, looking like the biggest pile of shit walking the earth.

This match was a bonafide classic. It built tremendously between the matwork and flying in the final fall, built Panther's struggle from the opening fall up until the final caida tremendously with him finally having a dishonest answer in stopping Santo. Sets up the 28/05 match sensationally.

*****1/2-****3/4*


----------



## Violent By Design

hey, I remember a while back someone was talking about some epic Brazilian brawls. Anyone know of any?


----------



## Yeah1993

I remember some Chain Match from the 60s or 70s or 80s being posted from Youtube, I could look it up if search wasn't fucked with. It miht have been posted on segundacaida.blogspot.com/ somewhere


----------



## WOOLCOCK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJNRTfHMpTA

There's the Brazil chain match, was on page 5 of this thread.


----------



## Violent By Design

thanks a lot segunda, btw I enjoyed that match with Ramirez and Damien El Guerrero.

Also how do I get matches off of segunda.blogspot? Are there just links spread out randomly :x?


----------



## Yeah1993

Yeah, they post youtube links of matches if they watched it from there. Sometimes if you click the title it goes to the link.


----------



## Violent By Design

Ah, alright. I suppose Youtube will be my weapon of choice for Lucha Libre.


----------



## New Blood

*Black Terry/***** Navarro vs. Angel Mortal/El Apache [IWRG 1/16]*
Everyone needs to see this match. While their match on the 9th was really fantastic, they take it up a couple notches. The first couple falls are still on the mat but this time a little more heated. The beauty of the match doesn't come until the third fall in which everything breaks down and we get some amazing brawling between Terry and Apache and Terry bleeds buckets. Just really awesome stuff. I wish more wrestling fans would check out these guys instead of going the usual route of indy/puro workrate matches.


----------



## Violent By Design

Hey does anyone have any links to Atlantis vs Blue Panther? I'm looking for both 91 and 97. Can't really find any d load links, but I see a link on youtube for one of them.


----------



## New Blood

Violent By Design said:


> Hey does anyone have any links to Atlantis vs Blue Panther? I'm looking for both 91 and 97. Can't really find any d load links, but I see a link on youtube for one of them.


I wish I did. I've been looking for their 91 match for quite a while now. It may be on Wrestling KO but I have to do a lot of digging.


----------



## Violent By Design

Anyone else know any good Brazilian wrestling matches or just really gritty brawls?


----------



## Yeah1993

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHEMrzY8sKQ

This is their 91 match. It doesn't say so anywhere on the video but it is, I haven't got a download link.

I have the meagupload link for the 97 one on my old computer and if everything goes right today I should be able to post it. Need to bring my favourites/bookmarks over


----------



## Violent By Design

So I was kinda watching the saga of ***** Casas vs El Hijo Del Santo and I have a question. I remember there was a trios that involved El Dandy and Casas working together. It was pretty awesome, but how come like a few weeks after, they're in a triple threat with Santo?


----------



## Yeah1993

I think they both just challenged Santo to a hair vs mask match and got the triangle match as a result. 

----

Found Panther/Atlantis from 97 btw: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YHI4Z2DC


----------



## New Blood

I'll write a review of it tomorrow but Atlantis/Blue Panther 91 is as great as great gets. Then I'll be reviewing some El Satanico matches.


----------



## New Blood

7/31 
NEWS

EMLL announced today that they would be going to Columbia from August 14th & 15th to hold a couple of live events for the people.

Juventud Guerrera announced yesterday that he has formed a new group called Faccion X consisting of himself, Daga, Eterno, & Zumbi. Juvy said that they would be based in Super-X of course but would be working other promotions as well such as today's AULL show at Arena Lopez Mateos.

RESULTS

AAA 7/31 – Plaza de Toros Nuevo Progresso de Guadalajara (Verano de Escandalo)
1. Mascarita Divina/Mini Charly Manson/Octagoncito beat The Mini Psycho Circus (Mini Monster Clown/Mini Murder Clown/Mini Psycho Clown)
2. Elimination Match por el Reina de Reinas: Pimpinela Escarlata (who was the surprise) defeated Mickie James after a kiss to win the title. Konnan got involved and ended up fighting with the referee El Piero. Order of Eliminiation: Cinthia Moreno/Lolita/Jennifer Blake/Fabi Apache/Sexy Star/Mari Apache/Mickie James
3. Drago/Electroshock/Heavy Metal beat Samoa Joe/Silver Kain/Ultimo Gladiador
4. Los Bizarros (Charly Manson/Cibernetico/Escoria/Tabu) defeated El Inframundo (Cuervo/Espiritu/Ozz/La Parka Jr.) in a wild match that saw Parka destroy Tabu with steel chairs forcing him to be stretchered out followed up by Parka being "crucified" in the ring.
5. 4 Way Monsters Ball Match: Chessman beat Joe Lider after Nicho el Millionario showed up and put Lider through a fiery table who was then stretchered out. Other participants were Abyss & Extreme Tiger and the AAA Cruiserweight Title was not on the line here after all.
6. 3 Way Dance for the AAA Mega Heavyweight Title: Jeff Jarrett defeated Dr. Wagner Jr. & L.A. Par-K to retain his title with help from his wife Karen to take out Wagner and Zorro who nailed Par-K with a guitar. El Mesias showed up afterwards and demanded a match with Jarrett and it turned into a standoff with Mesias & Doc against La Sociedad featuring Dorian Roldan proclaiming that he would not rest until AAA was completely taken over by TNA.
7. Steel Cage Match where the last man eliminated will be shaved or unmasked: Psycho Clown eliminated X-Fly who was shaved. Order of Elimination: Halloween/Monster Clown/Murder Clown/Damian 666/Psycho Clown.


EMLL 7/31 – Arena Coliseo
1. Aereo & Pequeno Halcon beat Mercurio & Universito Dos Mil
2. Hijo del Enrique Vera/Super Halcon Jr./Trueno defeated Inquisidor/Los Rayos Tapatios I y II
3. Goya Kong/Lady Apache/Luna Magica beat La Comandante/Princesa Blanca/La Seductora
4. Misterioso II/Shigeo Okumura/Nobuo Yoshihashi defeated Blue Panther/Metal Blanco/Valiente when Misterioso fouled BP behind the ref's back.
5. La Mascara/Mascara Dorada/Shocker beat Alebrije/Hector Garza/Volador Jr. by DQ when Hector finally had enough of Volador and attacked him then ripped off Mascara's mask and threw it in Volador's hands where the ref saw it.

Independent 7/30 - Polideportivo 6 Decadas de Amaluca
1. Dragon de Plata & Sombra de Plata beat King Rocker & Samurai
2. Dylan & Espectrito defeated Aru & King Vikingo
3. Relampago & Lolita beat Azteca Xtreme & Jennifer Blake
4. Bull Terrier Match: Halloween & Nicho el Millionario defeated Dr. Wagner III

UPCOMING SHOWS

COLOMBIA

EMPRESA MEXICANA DE LUCHA LIBRE

8/14 - Palacio de los Deportes de Bogota, Colombia
1. ?
2. ??
3. Delta & Guerrero Maya Jr. vs. Hijo del Signo & Puma King
4. Hijo del Fantasma & Sagrado vs. Arkangel de la Muerte & Escandalo

8/15 - Palacio de los Deportes de Bogota, Colombia
1. ?
2. ??
3. Delta & Guerrero Maya Jr. vs. Hijo del Signo & Puma King
4. Hijo del Fantasma & Sagrado vs. Arkangel de la Muerte & Escandalo

MEXICO

EMPRESA MEXICANA DE LUCHA LIBRE

8/1 – Arena Puebla
1. Asturiano/Black Tiger/Stigma vs. Espiritu Maligno/Fuerza Chicana/Siki Osama
2. Dark Angel (making her return)/Estrellita/Marcela vs. Amapola/Princesa Blanca/Seuxis
3. Sagrado/Stuka Jr./Valiente vs. Misterioso II/Shigeo Okumura/Vangelis
4. Blue Panther/Mascara Dorada/Shocker vs. La Triada del Terror (Averno/Ephesto/Mephisto)
5. Caballera contra Caballera: Rush vs. Nobuo Yoshihashi

8/2 – Arena Coliseo de Guadalajara
1. Virgo vs. Evola
2. Leo & Metatron vs. Malefico & Rafaga
3. Hijo del Enrique Vera & Hombre Bala Jr. vs. Los Hombres del Camoflaje (Artillero y Super Comando)
4. Metal Blanco/Palacio *****/Sangre Azteca vs. Los Cancerberos del Infierno (Cancerbero/Loco Max/Virus)
5. Hijo del Fantasma/La Mascara/Sagrado vs. Dragon Rojo/Felino/Ultimo Guerrero

8/2 – Arena Mexico
1. Soberano & Super Halcon Jr. vs. Ramstein & Zayco
2. Astral/Electrico/Mascarita Dorada vs. Demus 3:16/Pequeno Olimpico/Pequeno Violencia
3. Angel de Plata/Metro/Stuka Jr. vs. Misterioso II/Shigeo Okumura/Nobuo Yoshihashi
4. Blue Panther/Maximo/Rush vs. Olimpico/Psicosis/Volador Jr.
5. Brazo de Plata/Mascara Dorada/Shocker vs. La Fuerza TRT (Damian el Terrible/Rey Bucanero/Hijo del Texano)

8/5 - Arena Mexico
1. Metalico & Starman vs. Disturbio & Inquisidor
2. Bam Bam/Mini Fantasy/Ultimo Dragoncito vs. Nitrito/Pequeno Warrior/Pierrothito
3. Lightning Match: Sangre Azteca vs. Raziel
4. Fuego/Metal Blanco/Palacio ***** vs. Euforia/Hijo del Signo/Virus
5. Angel de Oro/Delta/Shocker vs. Ephesto/Mephisto/Polvora
6. Atlantis/Hector Garza/La Mascara vs. Dragon Rojo/Mr. Niebla/Ultimo Guerrero

INDEPENDENT

8/3 – Auditorio Municipal de Poza Rica
1. Mascarita Sagrada & Octagoncito vs. Mini Histeria & Mini Psicosis
2. Fabi y Mari Apache vs. Jennifer Blake & Sexy Star
3. Extreme Tiger/Joe Lider/Luchador Sorpresa vs. The Psycho Circus (Monster Clown/Murder Clown/Psycho Clown)
4. El Mesias & La Parka Jr. vs. Chessman & Cibernetico

8/3 – Domo de la Feria de Leon
1. Maximito & Ultimo Dragoncito vs. Demus 3:16 & Pierrothito
2. Lluvia & Marcela vs. Amapola & Princesa Sugei
3. Rush & Toscano vs. Hijo del Texano & Rey Bucanero
4. Black Warrior & Hijo del Fantasma vs. Damian el Terrible & ***** Casas
5. La Mascara/Mascara Dorada/Maximo vs. Atlantis/Mr. Niebla/Ultimo Guerrero

PROMOCIONES FB

8/28 - Cancha German Evers de Mazatlan
1. ?
2. ??
3. ???
4. Kempo Dragon/Mario Mora/Relampago vs. Angel Blanco Jr./Cien Caras Jr./Mascara Ano Dos Mil Jr.
5. Hijo del Rey Misterio/Hijo del Santo/Huracan Ramirez vs. Fuerza Guerrera/L.A. Par-K/Cassandro

PROMOCIONES SUPER-X

8/14 – Cancha de Futbol Rapido de Santiago Amozoc de Puebla
1. 3 Way Dance: Radamantis vs. Ikaro vs. Tornado
2. Esther Moreno & Yuki Star vs. Rossy Moreno & Vanely
3. Daga/Super Nova/Zumbi vs. Eterno/Tribal/Veneno
4. Los Villanos IV y V vs. Fuerza Guerrera & Rambo
5. Juventud Guerrera/Oriental/Zumbido vs. Hijo del Lizmark/Histeria/Super Crazy


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Posted this in the Multimedia requests section but if anyone can provide a link for :

Ringo Mendoza/Atlantis/Ultraman vs. Los Infernales (Satanico/Masakre/MS-1) Mid 1980s then I'd be eternally grateful. Seen it pimped to high heaven in a blog.


----------



## New Blood

Segunda Caida said:


> Posted this in the Multimedia requests section but if anyone can provide a link for :
> 
> Ringo Mendoza/Atlantis/Ultraman vs. Los Infernales (Satanico/Masakre/MS-1) Mid 1980s then I'd be eternally grateful. Seen it pimped to high heaven in a blog.


I'll look for it on WKO. Unfortunately, unless it's puro or some American indy match, no one will probably have the link.


----------



## McQueen

This is the most important post ever in this thread. Where do I start with Black Terry, and what must I see?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

McQueen said:


> This is the most important post ever in this thread. Where do I start with Black Terry, and what must I see?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcCzMEkpWRk&playnext=1&list=PLF3573E492D72DF51

From 2004, nearly 30 mins of old school lucha matwork between 4 maestros. Most of his 2009 stuff and beyond is available on Youtube.

He has numerous tags involving ***** Navarro, Solar, Shu El Guerrero, Fuerza Guerrera among many others. Its late in the UK so I'll try and comeback tomorrow with an extended set of links and good shit which will ease you in: I'd probably advise you to not watch the above match just yet unless you've experienced lucha matwork for more than 20 mins and won't be bored by it.

Terry has plenty of diverse good shit though, I recall an amazing cage match from 2009 or 2010 which had a hair vs hair stipulation.

@ New Blood- cheers for the link to Satanico greatness.


----------



## New Blood

McQueen said:


> This is the most important post ever in this thread. Where do I start with Black Terry, and what must I see?


It's all pretty much on You Tube (with some exceptions). His 2009-2010 (2010 especially) work is phenomenal. The matches however were shot on handheld by a guy named Black Terry Jr. and are uploaded on You Tube. I would start by checking out the reviews/links to Terry's matches on the Segunda Caida blog.

http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2010/06/complete-and-accurate-black-terry.html

I'd check out anything that's rated "EPIC" as well as his match with El Hijo del Santo in 1991.


----------



## McQueen

Link isn't working.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2010/06/complete-and-accurate-black-terry.html

That work?

Here's the 1991 match New Blood recommended:


----------



## McQueen

I found it so its all good.


----------



## D'Angelo

Don't know if this belongs here, but who are the top 10 luchas for you?

I have to say after seeing some Navarro he has to be up there.

This isn't in order but this is how I imagine how my list will look after watching a lot more.

***** Navarro
El Hijo del Santo
El Dandy
***** Casas
El Satanico
Blue Panther
Black Terry
Pirata Morgan
MS-1
Atlantis

NOTE: I haven't watched nearly enough to even form a constructed opinion but from what little I have seen so far they're guys I like.


----------



## Yeah1993

El Hijo del Santo
***** Casas
Blue Panther
Atlantis
***** Navarro
Solar
Fuerza Guerrera
El Dandy 
El Satanico


That's nine, not in order. Fuck me for a number 10 spot because lucha guys are as hard to rank as anything. A lot of lucha guys have either five great matches in their whole career while still being great, or like one great match every year or something. Then there's those hwo have one of the greatest matches of all time, and almost nothing else available on tape that's worth *that* much. There has to be at least a dozen guys I could shove in the last spot.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

El Satanico honestly would probably right now today be my pick for GOAT Luchadore and possibly a top 10 guy ever. In every match I've seen of his he's demonstrated some lovely subtle selling touches whether its selling a bump or selling frustration/fear etc. He's shown he can work a wonderful arc triple caida arc in a Lucha title match vs Gran Cochisse and has also been able to brawl with the best. Reminds me of Eddie, Dick Murdoch or Funk in that he's consistently entertaining in every match you see of the guy whereas a few guys in my top 10 for Lucha have some really off days. Satanico seems to be the most consistent Luchadore and my favourite.

El Hijo Del Santo always had a Misawa vibe to me when watching him in that he really came off looking like a Wrestling superman and someone you were blessed in watching. I often hear his UWA work pimped as being some of his best stuff especially on the mat compared to his CMLL work (and a few people seem very sour on his AAA run and basically AAA in general).

***** Navarro and Black Terry would be the best of modern day Lucha and a definite lock in my top 10, Blue Panther is probably maybe one of my favourite mat workers ever but the guy has a few off matches compared to a guy like Satanico that I can't rank him as the best.

Would probably look something like:

El Satanico
Sangre Chicana
El Dandy
El Hijo Del Santo
Black Terry
Blue Panther
***** Navarro
Fuerza Guerrera
Atlantis
Javier Llanes/Damiancito El Guerrero

Not seen enough Pirata Morgan for him to be a top 10 guy for me. Same goes for MS-1. Honestly not as big a fan of Casas as others bar the El Dandy 1992 match, El Hijo 87 and 97 match.


EDIT: McQueen give me 30 minutes and I'll try and come back with a better list of good Black Terry stuff, just gotta find some old links and recall the best matches I watched. Guy's been wrestling weekly since 2009 so it kinda all blends together.


----------



## McQueen

Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't Sangre Chicana translate to "Bloody Girl"


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Quick google check comes up with 'Chicano Blood' so yeah pretty much.

Guy is really good though as a rudo in getting great heat for minimal stuff. Really charismatic worker.


----------



## McQueen

I've never heard of him. I don't watch much Lucha though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

He's retired now I think, was very big in the 70s and 80s. Legendary technico (babyface) and a really good prickish heel though, would have been great in Memphis or Mid South as a touring heel.

1983 match vs MS-1 is amazing, really really gritty and bloody brawl.


----------



## D'Angelo

How much of El Hijo's UWA work is on Goodhelmet's set?

You should try and watch some more Pirata, from what I have seen the guy is sick and can pull of some hardcore shit in the ring.

Seen a few guys pimp Fuerza so I need to see more of him sometime.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Fuerza got a legit classic match out of Octagon in 1991, so that alone makes him one of a kind. Otherwise he's a great bumper and generally incredibly entertaining to watch in the ring.

Not a clue on the match lising for Santo's set, I imagine a good chunk of it is on there though given its 36 discs or so and Goodhelmet has access to numerous years of footage.


----------



## D'Angelo

Yeah, that set is a monster. 

Can't wait for Panther & Satanico sets to be released.

Then the 80s lucha sets and all the other European and 80s territories sets. So... much... wrestling.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Is a Satanico set confirmed legit? If so I could really see many people hopping on the guy's bandwagon as a legit amazing wrestler in the same way Fujiwara and co have had their reputation lifted with more sets dedicated to their work?

Lucha 80s set would be great as well


----------



## D'Angelo

Segunda Caida said:


> Is a Satanico set confirmed legit? If so I could really see many people hopping on the guy's bandwagon as a legit amazing wrestler in the same way Fujiwara and co have had their reputation lifted with more sets dedicated to their work?
> 
> Lucha 80s set would be great as well


Not confirmed yet. I e-mailed Phil Schneider who is working on the sets and I asked whether it is definitely in production so he should get back to me tonight some time. I would love it if Panther and Satanico sets were brought out, to go along with the awesomeness of the 80s set.

I believe there are going to be more and more guys discovered as being legit awesome workers when tastes change or new sets are brought out. Judging from DVDVR, people were never as high on matwork as they are now compared to 10 years ago, hence the talk for Fujiwara being considered a GOAT in many's eyes.

There are a ton of guys that are being pimped as all time greats now due to more and more stuff getting out there. Guys like Tenryu and Lawler are up there on most people's lists now too. 

I really like discovering some of the all time greats, not necessarily GOAT contenders but guys like Terry Gordy etc. are really stand out awesome workers that I never really heard of before.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*FAO McQueen- Black Terry stuff: *
2004:

Black Terry & Villano III vs Blue Panther & Shu El Guerrero

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcCzMEkpWRk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5g9t3OnTCs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5Zfae6wYrs&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0_mlx6FhZA&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL


2008: 

Black Terry vs Multifacetico - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB9kCz3Ry4Q

2009:

Dr Cerebro, Cerebro ***** & Black Terry vs Trauma I, Trauma II & ***** Navarro - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Y2vY4DXtA

Dr Cerebro, Cerebro ***** & Black Terry vs Traumas I & II & ***** Navarro - 16/04/2009 - 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7WdrbrD4C0&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU9x6ISh69c&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qp5yd0aoME&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Black Terry/Cerebro *****/Dr. Cerebro v Barba Roja/Pirata Morgan Jr./Hijo del Pirata Morgan - 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqZQG74cyw0

Black Terry & Shu El Guerrero vs El Signo & ***** Navarro - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj5urZxaMa0

2010:

Pantera, Suicida & Zatura vs Black Terry, Hijo del Dialbo & Cerebro ***** - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZYUfSoaGSE

Black Terry & Doctor Cerebro vs ****** Loco & El Hijo del Diablo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q2FhGFX0w4

Black Terry, Doctor Cerebro & ***** Navarro vs Solar, Zatura & Suicida - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33RPkiEymXE

Black Terry/Avisman/Bombero Infernal/Dr. Cerebro/****** Loco/Hijo del Pantera/Las Traumas I y II v. Alan Extreme/Dinamic Black/Eros/Guizmo/Hijo del Signo/Imperial/Maldito Jr./Samoth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj16WSeK1XE

Black Terry & Doctor Cerebro vs Hijo del Diablo & ****** Loco Cabelleras en Jaula - 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOpfbh8dAeY&feature=related

Black Terry & Shu el Guerrero vs ***** Navarro & El Signo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwBkQVSfU_4

Black Terry, Doctor Cerebro & Trauma II vs Pantera, Hijo del Pantera & Zatura - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhc8_QY_ty8

Solar, Ultraman & Super Astro vs ***** Navarro, Black Terry & Signo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvRqHslCl2k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGm4mEy35Mg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYZdY1fO--Q&feature=related

Dr. Cerebro, Black Terry & Chico Che vs ******, H. del Diablo & Avisman - 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7s9FFcDly8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlIFM1XcfCw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ygzxmEgW5Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kBQaSRB6j4


That should do for now.


----------



## Yeah1993

Stringer said:


> How much of El Hijo's UWA work is on Goodhelmet's set?


Only a few tags and a hair/mask match with Brazo de Oro and a match vs Espanto Jr.


----------



## D'Angelo

Damn, I guess the UWA work wasn't taped much then?


----------



## Yeah1993

I'm not going to pretend to know more about lucha than I do (which isn't a historian-level amount or anything), but I'm pretty sure he wasn't even around there for two years. I doubt anybody's had too much footage to watch of him in UWA, especially what didn't make the set 'Helmet made.


----------



## D'Angelo

That's a relief then, I thought we'd be missing out on some of his best work.

I'm probably going to re-watch the 90s DVDVR lucha set and review each match. I remember the 16 man cibernetico that came first on the poll was stupid amounts of awesome.


----------



## smitlick

i reviewed that a few pages back so i'm interested to compare ratings.


----------



## New Blood

I kinda hope that someday there will be a new 90s DVDVR Lucha set as I think, as I watch more lucha, it's really kind of outdated and so much more matches have surfaced that are far superior than most of the matches on that set. Early 90s EMLL/CMLL is insanely good and while there were obviously some fantastic AAA matches, I think matches like Panther/Atlantis and Casas/Dandy along with many others are light years ahead in quality.


----------



## Yeah1993

Quite honestly I just don't think that lucha 90s list/set is that good. It's good if you want to get into the style but with stuff like Dandy/Azteca, Santo/Felino, Cicloncito/Daminacito, Panther/Mariachi, Panther/Astro, panther/Atlantis or *****/Dandy being missing while Panther/Love machine is on there and the When Worlds Collide tag is in second place, I'm left scratching my head.


----------



## smitlick

It was pretty good. There was a few matches i didn't really care for but still worth a watch.


----------



## Violent By Design

When Worlds Collide is legit still, it flows real well and has electricity. Great athleticism is displayed, don't see why some of y'all hate other than it being famous. I agree with Love Machine and Blue Panther though, I have no idea why this match is pimped. I actually saw that one for the first time yesterday morning.

I think I saw their list not too long ago, and I don't remember too many of the matches being bad. I thought the Mysterio vs Juvi matches were the only ones that were really bad (granted, I have not seen all the matches on that list from what I remember).


----------



## Yeah1993

The WWC being famous has nothing to do with me not liking it, and I do like it.....a little. I just think it being the second best match from Mexico in the entire ten year span of the 90s is really confusing.


----------



## New Blood

Yeah1993 said:


> Quite honestly I just don't think that lucha 90s list/set is that good. It's good if you want to get into the style but with stuff like Dandy/Azteca, Santo/Felino, Cicloncito/Daminacito, Panther/Mariachi, Panther/Astro, panther/Atlantis or *****/Dandy being missing while Panther/Love machine is on there and the When Worlds Collide tag is in second place, I'm left scratching my head.


A lot of it had to do with the availability of footage. That poll was taken over a decade ago and a lot has been found and people's opinions have changed. It would look drastically different today then what it would have in 2001. Also for instance, the New Japan poll would look different as they would probably focus more on the heavyweights this time around as opposed to the juniors matches but those were in style at the time.

Goodhelmet said that they are going to redo the 90s poll after they're finished with the 80s poll which will probably be in 20 years. LOL.


----------



## D'Angelo

Yeah, the 90s set is good for getting into the style and some of the workers there but I have heard there is a lot more better stuff out there. 

Is there a lot of 80s NJ heavyweight action available?


----------



## crowdpuller1

Quick question, in the last 10/15 years has there been european workers working for AAA or CMLL?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*Los Infernales vs Tony Salazar, La Fiera & Rayo Jr, 1987*

This was bloody awesome. Los Infernales had insane heat throughout the match and were brilliant southern heels, backing away from the technicos instead of duking it out, cheapshotting the technico's when their backs were turned. First fall and a half is bacially an extended squash with La Fiera getting his leg torn to shreds by Satanico and the rest of the Infernales and he sells it terrificly. Most of this is 2 on 1 to the heels with the technico's being unable to get back in the ring to help their fallen comrades and this crowd is fucking PISSED.

All builds tremendously to Rayo Jr manning up and throwing some lovely haymakers to the Infernales on the outside and Satanico ends up taking a nutsy turnbuckle shot. They then start to fight back and after La Fiera knocks Masakre out with a brilliant spin kicks, Satanico and MS-1 take turns trying to out comedy bump the other after respective throws into the corner. MS-1 manages to win this game though with a nutso bump that has to be seen to be believed. The Infernales are terrific in comedy bumping throughout and it feels like Arn Anderson x3. 

The Infernales winning in two straight falls made them look legit badasses and the ending being a showdown between both captains was nicely done. Some terrific brawling and bumping mixed with La Fiera selling his ass off makes for a highly enjoyable match.

****3/4*

......................................

SANTO VS ESPANTO JR, MASK RIPPING, BLOOD DESERVING TO TAKE PLACE IN TIJUANA

*El Hijo Del Santo vs Espanto Jr, Mask vs Mask, Monterrey 31/08/1986*

Jerry Lawler approves of this match. This has a classic 3 caida arc with plenty of blood and mask ripping and a molten crowd. It really is a fitting Monterrey bloodtbath.

Opening Caida and a half sees Espanto Jr kick Santo's ass unmercifully. Santo eats the punishment up terrificly and I dug the way he arched his back in pain everytime Espanto flung him to the mat with such force. Also really enjoyed Espanto following Santo out of the ring to pick him up and toss him back into the ring to continue the punishment, never letting up for a second. He finally puts Santo out of his misery and locks in a killer submission which Santo has no answer for and Espanto is now up 1 Caida. This may shock a Lucha noob but Lucha title matches with 3 caidas have always followed an arc whereby the opening two caidas are usually borderline squashes in how one sided they are. This is done to show the audience both competitors can seemingly better the other with consumate ease and allow the deciding caida to have unrivalled drama with tons of believable nearfalls and submissions. In this case, Santo's ass kicking all builds to the second caida and how he can regain the momentum Espanto has created for himself, a perfect continuation in the arc.

Santo's selling in between the primera and segunda caida (yes folks if you didn't already know this is where my username comes from) is magnificent. He looks a broken man with no idea in how to defy the odds and keep his mask and little kids patting him on the back is a hell of a visual, that's crowd support! Santo manages to use his speed and anger to reclaim the advantage, Espanto bumps like a madman before eating a vintage Santo tope which freaking rocked. Santo then brings Espanto back into the ring and finishes him off with a back senton to tie the match.

The final caida is magnifico. Santo has already had his mask ripped and been bloodied from a couple of chairshots from Espanto as well as Espanto biting and working over the cut in a manner befitting Bill Dundee. Santo gets PISSED from this and rips open Espanto's mask for revenge and drags him around the ring to inflict pain and its a sensational image. Espanto hits a freaking awesome dive to the floor before Santo trumps him with perhaps the most impactful and violent crossbody to the floor I've ever witnessed. Seriously it looked like they were gonna fall through the floor it was that painful. In between this there are some slick pinning attempts and combinations which keep the crowd in suspense before Espanto makes a crucial error and Santo locks in the camel clutch for submission for the victory.

Hell of a match here, the crowd were amazing for it and Santo and Espanto worked the match beautifully in progressing the arc from Espanto looking untouchable, to Santo making his long awaited comeback to both men busting out everything in their locker to keep the mask. Not a better way to drop your mask than in a setting and match like this.

*****1/2*


----------



## Momoasdf

Yeah1993 said:


> Quite honestly I just don't think that lucha 90s list/set is that good. It's good if you want to get into the style but with stuff like Dandy/Azteca, Santo/Felino, Cicloncito/Daminacito, Panther/Mariachi, Panther/Astro, panther/Atlantis or *****/Dandy being missing while Panther/Love machine is on there and the When Worlds Collide tag is in second place, I'm left scratching my head.


I second that. The luchawiki list of Noteworthy Matches is a good reference for great lucha 90s matches.


----------



## Momoasdf

crowdpuller1 said:


> Quick question, in the last 10/15 years has there been european workers working for AAA or CMLL?


Alex Koslov and Black Magic. I think they are the only ones.

Angelico from Spain worked for IWRG last year, I don't know if he's still there.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Violent By Design said:


> When Worlds Collide is legit still, it flows real well and has electricity. Great athleticism is displayed, don't see why some of y'all hate other than it being famous. I agree with Love Machine and Blue Panther though, I have no idea why this match is pimped. I actually saw that one for the first time yesterday morning.


The WWC match isn't anything special at all. Definitely don't think it flows real well, in fact I thought it was way choppier than I remembered. I honestly don't recall anything about it that'd put it on par with the fifteenth best El Dandy match from 1990. No offense, but "it gets hate because it's famous" is a pretty bullshit talking point. It "gets hate" because it's just not that good. 


***** Navarro & Black Terry v Los Traumas (UWE, 8/27/11)
- This is only the third match I've seen from these guys this year, and I think the last one was way back in April, but the Traumas (particularly II) are still two of my favourite guys in wrestling. Thought the II/Terry opening mat section was a bit too exhibitiony, but there's a few great moments, like II condescendingly patting Terry on the back after he beats him in an exchange, Terry looking at Navarro like "is your kid mocking me?" and Navarro just shrugging like "eh, you've got sons too, you know how they are." Then Navarro and Trauma I get in there and T1 just slaps the fucking TASTE out of his old boy's mouth. Trauma II is a total shitkicker and even he seems taken aback by this, and Terry is great coming in like "hey hey hey...that's your old man, kid. Was that really necessary?" Navarro's dazed, stumbling sell of it is totally spectacular; Fujiwara-ish, even. The way he tries to rip his son's arm out the socket for his bullshit is why Navarro >*. Not on the level of Virus/Maya Jr. (which is a legit worldwide MOTYC, not just limited to lucha), but this was still some really good shit.


----------



## horrorfan_1984

who has a link to the new Santo/Espanto '88 title match that surfaced


----------



## Momoasdf

Andy3000 said:


> The WWC match isn't anything special at all. Definitely don't think it flows real well, in fact I thought it was way choppier than I remembered. I honestly don't recall anything about it that'd put it on par with the fifteenth best El Dandy match from 1990. No offense, but "it gets hate because it's famous" is a pretty bullshit talking point. It "gets hate" because it's just not that good.
> 
> 
> ***** Navarro & Black Terry v Los Traumas (UWE, 8/27/11)
> - This is only the third match I've seen from these guys this year, and I think the last one was way back in April, but the Traumas (particularly II) are still two of my favourite guys in wrestling. Thought the II/Terry opening mat section was a bit too exhibitiony, but there's a few great moments, like II condescendingly patting Terry on the back after he beats him in an exchange, Terry looking at Navarro like "is your kid mocking me?" and Navarro just shrugging like "eh, you've got sons too, you know how they are." Then Navarro and Trauma I get in there and T1 just slaps the fucking TASTE out of his old boy's mouth. Trauma II is a total shitkicker and even he seems taken aback by this, and Terry is great coming in like "hey hey hey...that's your old man, kid. Was that really necessary?" Navarro's dazed, stumbling sell of it is totally spectacular; Fujiwara-ish, even. The way he tries to rip his son's arm out the socket for his bullshit is why Navarro >*. Not on the level of Virus/Maya Jr. (which is a legit worldwide MOTYC, not just limited to lucha), but this was still some really good shit.


I liked that match, I don't think it's a lucha MOTYC, but it was good. Angelico vs Gran Apache from the same show is a good match too.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I honestly haven't seen enough from this year to call that tag match a lucha MOTYC, but if nothing else it reminded me why IWRG is easily one of the best things in wrestling right now.


----------



## USAUSA1

I haven't watch lucha in a year. Just like WWE and TNA, it became stale. Not the same when Mistico was feuding with Perro and UG and teaming with Santo. Not the same when Billy Boy and Aerostar was stealing the show or when Chessman was the coolest wrestler on the planet. 

I did enjoy the new episode of LLUSA. It's a silly show and for a Saturday morning show, I can accept it flaws.


----------



## Certified G

Well big bump here..

I got my first 5 AAA dvd's, they're pretty awesome. I can't remember all of the names, I do know one is TripleMania 19 (with TNA stars), 2 Guerra de Titanes' (not sure on the spelling), a Verano de Escalando (again sp?). Theses are all original releases so with menu's/extra's etc..


----------



## 777

Anyone seen this year's Heroes Inmortales?

Wanting to see, Perro vs Wagner, Sting vs Mesias and Psycho Circus vs Perros del Mal.

Also, LLUSA is a very fun show. I like it a lot.


----------



## USAUSA1

Have not seen the show yet but I heard Sting vs Mesias suck. And Mesias is usually a big show primetime performer. He always bring it. I need to get back to watching AAA on a weekly basis. Im not going to even give CMLL a try again, the promotion is in a rut booking wise. Paco is in denial.

Magno vs Brewer mask vs hair match was fun. LLUSA is a fun little silly tv show. Rj Brewer is really a great heel and Magno really fits the US version of lucha.


----------



## Yeah1993

Can someone give a list of best AAA stuff of 2010?


----------



## Horselover Fat

^^^^^^
I cant sorry


----------



## Yeah1993

you're always there for me.


----------



## 777

OK, so I got to see the show. Wasn't too bad. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Sting vs Mesias was lackluster. But It wasn't a steaming pile of turd either.
Banderas looks a little bloated, so did Zorro for that matter.


LA Park is the fucking man. This guy embodies entertainment/lucha.



Spoiler: Heroes Inmortales



Holy shit, Octogon and La Parka are turning heel and joining Perros Del Mal and la Sociadad!



Like most Mexican cage matches, the ME was a bit of a cluster fuck, but thoroughly entertaining. Hijo del Perro Aguayo vs Dr Wagner jr, was quite good, but I expected nothing less from these two.
Lucha fans should check out this show, was solid.


Yes, RJ Brewer is a wonderfully entertaining heel. Like having Petey Williams back on TV as well.

*Yeah1993, I don't get to watch AAA or CMLL weekly, usually just the big shows, so I haven't seen that many matches from last year, but, LA Park vs La Parka is a must see. Also LA Park vs Mesias, their first battle at Guerra de Titanes. The same show also featured a great trios match with Perros del Mal (xFly, Damien and Halloween) vs Psycho Circus. 2010 Rey de Reyes was OK, but the best match on the show was probably Xtreme Tiger vs Alex Kozlov.


----------



## USAUSA1

Seen Atlantis,Delta, Guerrero Maya Jr. vs Blue Panther,Fuego, Pólvora match. It was a good match. Classic lucha style.

I'm trying to get back on my lucha stuff. Especially CMLL on Fox Sports, good place to start.


----------



## Yeah1993

Anybody been hitting it with IWRG? Heard they've had a pretty disappointing year compared to 2010.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah they've had some enjoyable and in some cases, really really good matches featuring Solar/Navarro/Terry/Traumas/Dr Cerebro etc but all in all they've definitely dropped off from last year. Solar/Navarro sequences are still great but getting more stale especially with how often they bust out the bullshit double pin finish to protect both: Terry/Navarro continue to tease us sadly with glimpses of what they can do opposite each other without having a proper blow off feud: they've really just lacked a big blood feud this year compared to 2009 or 2010: so a lot of the matches are good and enjoyable but lacking blood, better brawling and a sense of importancy in a big feud.

Terry/Navarro had a couple of great tags though at the top of the year, 09/01 and 16/01 are the respective dates: still nothing they've done is better than the Satanico/Solar vs Terry/Blue Panther match you talked about on your blog, actually it may have been Navarro instead of Terry but I'm sure you recall the match: was from March.


----------



## Yeah1993

yeah that was a great match (Navarro, btw), and really, really, really made me want to see Solar and Panther go at it (or, "go at it again" in case with the CLASSIC they had in 94).


----------



## WOOLCOCK

They had a match in 1994 ? Holy Shit you learn something everyday.

There was some pimping about an August/September tag over on WKO, IIRC Navarro's kid slapped the shit out of him, Terry sold it great on the apron like 'what the fuck are you doing, that's your papa you little shit' and then Navarro just cuts some insane facial expression of hate and contempt and sets about trying to rip his kid's arm out of its socket.

I also read the minis in CMLL had a couple of really good spotfests, one was pretty recent.


----------



## Yeah1993

WKO is pretty much where I go to look at current lucha to check. Segunda Caida's handy for that too. Seems CMLL are having much better singles matches than tags. Then again apart from IWRG how many great lucha tags that weren't 2-on-2 has there been in the past like five years? I'm no expert but there doesn't look to be a huge amount.

You've probably heard of Panther facing El Mariachi in 94. Mariachi was Solar.


----------



## USAUSA1

I'm in the minority but am a fan of AAA and CMLL Televisa shows being one hour. I prefer my wrestling shows to be one hour unless it's a big show or ppv which of course should be 3 hours. Less filler and junk. WWE AM is more enjoyable than WWE Raw and it's basically the same show except WWE AM cuts the crap people don't want to see because it's a hour long show. I heard the AAA regional shows will stay around and be two hours though.

Where can I find IWRG without downloading? Cubsfan only post links you have to download.


----------



## Yeah1993

http://www.youtube.com/user/tvluchadelpasado

This is Black Terry's nephew. Or son, or soemthing. He's been uploading IWRG for a LONG time and I'm surprised you've never heard of the channel. Then again, Idk where thecubsfan downloads are so that's probably just as bad. 

I don't watch AAA or CMLL regularly, but I think I'd rather a wrestling show go an hour over multiple. I ussually like longer match to shorter ones, but with longer shows more crap seems to be squeezed in and the matches don't even wind up going longer anyway.


----------



## USAUSA1

I heard of Black Terry Jr channel but I was always under the impression that he just film parts of the matches and shows and take photos. Never bother checking it out.

Can't wait for someone to post the Castle of Terror match.

I'm interested in that El Hijo Del Santo vs El Hijo del Solitario match.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*Yeah1993* I forgot to mention my current Lucha MOTY, largely down to the greatness of the former Damiancito El Guerrero:



> *Virus vs Guerrero Maya Jr, CMLL 07/06/2011*
> 
> Bout time some Lucha other than IWRG was pimped and this was a strong MOTYC for any promotion and a true step back to the mid 90s of CMLL with the likes of Dandy, Llanes, Casas, Santo, Panther, Atlantis & Satanico tearing shit up. For anyone who doesn't know, Virus used to wrestle as the awesome Damiancito El Guerrero in CMLL and he's still awesome as fuck and a strong BITW candidate. The opening two falls are the classic Lucha matwork which dominates the opening 2 falls in Title matches: its not IWRG level matwork but its still really smooth and looks unco-operative and gritty. Virus in particular busts out some amazing submissions particularly the headscissors spot where he breaks his own bridge into a triangle choke to counter Maya. He's particlarly vicious as well in the second fall with some nice arm submissions and just general vicious work on the arm. Virus takes the opening fall after managing to out-think the younger Maya and locking on a submission combo for the win and Maya manages to even the score after making a comeback and using his greater speed and agility to get the best of the older Virus before locking on a lovely Black Terry esque submission.
> 
> The third fall is really though what propells this from 'great' to classic level. Maya dominates the beginning of the third and deciding caida and carries on his momentum from the last fall with some amazing counters and pinning combos as well as some funky submissions. His arm drag to the floor off the apron setting up his awesome dive into the crowd (no-one does suicide dives to the floor better than Luchadores) was an amazing combo and the submission following the sickening dropkick to the back of the head has to be a strong contender for near fall of the year. At this point I got a strong All Japan mid 90s vibe from Virus as he's fighting to stay in the match but slowly being worn down and beaten...until the younger and impatient Maya makes a crucial error and bails to the floor setting up THE DIVE OF THE YEAR from Virus to the floor which looked absolutely brutal. This is the difference maker in the match as Virus slowly begins to build more and more momentum and gets some sensational near falls from pinning predicaments that had the crowd going bonkers and a slap exchange follows with Virus warming up his right hand only to cheapshot Maya with a gorgeous left punch to the mouth which floors him. Finish looked absolutely incredible as well for a man of Virus's age and truly capped off a glorious trecera caida.
> 
> Strong MOTYC, though I may just have Finlay vs Callihan a little higher, its incredibly close though. Everyone needs to watch this match.
> 
> *****1/4-****1/2*


----------



## USAUSA1

Have to check that one out.


----------



## Yeah1993

I think once the WCW things over with I'll try to watch a pile of 2011 stuff, or at least what's being called "the best," and that's one of the first I have in my head. I've tried to D/L Finlay/Callihan literally over 10 times but it keeps saying it's going to take four hours. I have trouble sitting at a computer (or keeping it on in general) for more than one. Fileserve's a fucking wanker.


----------



## USAUSA1

Felino, Mr. Niebla, ***** Casas vs Blue Panther, Jushin Lyger, Rush from Fox Sports last weekend was a mess. The match wasn't necessary bad but given the talent involve the match was all over the place with the two last falls being DQ's. Panther try to salvage the match in the third fall but by that time it was too late.


----------



## Violent By Design

Hey, you can't just talk about a match of the year Lucha match and not hook it up with a link! :gun:



Yeah1993 said:


> I think once the WCW things over with I'll try to watch a pile of 2011 stuff, or at least what's being called "the best," and that's one of the first I have in my head. I've tried to D/L Finlay/Callihan literally over 10 times but it keeps saying it's going to take four hours. I have trouble sitting at a computer (or keeping it on in general) for more than one. Fileserve's a fucking wanker.


Where are you guys doing the WCW thing?

Btw, anyone gonna do the AWA complication over at Death-Valley? I think that's the next one they're doing.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Virus's comeback man, fucking legendary.


----------



## USAUSA1

Virus vs. Maya Jr was really great.

cubsfan have a best of 2011 matches volume 1 list with links http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/?p=13374#more-13374 

I personally LOVE the Bucanero vs. Fantasma match. I'm a little bias towards Bucanero because I've always said he is the best overall talent in lucha and he still are. He is so smooth in the ring. Damn near flawless.


----------



## Violent By Design

Segunda Caida said:


> *Yeah1993* I forgot to mention my current Lucha MOTY, largely down to the greatness of the former Damiancito El Guerrero:


Great match. Def makes it into my top 5 somewhere (squeezing out Generico vs Cladio Castanogi). I think I might like it more than the Punk vs Cena matches, gonna have to let that dwell in my subconscious for a few days.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Great to see you loved it, Virus also has another really good match on 8/30 against Stuka Jr.

As for where I'd rank it, Cena/Punk MITB is still my #1 at the moment but there's a really good chance Virus/Maya could overtake it by the end of the year. Special mention to Finlay/Callihan as well.


----------



## Violent By Design

I feel like going on a Lucha spree. Anyone got any nominees for some pretty looking matches? Could include obvious choices to make your lives easier.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

El Satanico vs Gran Cochisse 1984
El Dandy vs ***** Casas 1992
El Dandy vs Javier Llanes 1994
Atlantis vs Blue Panther 1991
Atlantis vs Villano III 2000
El Hijo Del Santo vs Espanto Jr 1986 and 1988

Check out the Segunda Caida blog, they've got a 'Complete and Accurate Pirata Morgan' and a 'Complete and Accurate Black Terry'. Both definitely well worth your time to track through stuff, anything listed as GREAT or EPIC will be guaranteed to be insanely awesome since the guys who make the blog are incredibly precise about what they do/don't like in a match.

Also I've heard Blue Panther and ***** Casas had a supposedly great match in May, not checked it out yet due to some concerns about modern day CMLL and me not really liking 2010 and 2011 Casas on last watch but people are swearing by Panther as a contender for worker of the year so I'll try and get around to it by end of the year. I imagine it'll be on Youtube since all modern day Lucha thankfully seems to have made its way onto there now.


----------



## Violent By Design

been meaning to check out Terry's stuff. Could go for some graceful matwork.


El Dandy vs Javier Llanes will be my weapon of choice.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Check out anything on that blog covering his work from 2009 onwards then, 2009 and 2010 he was involved in high profile feuds which created a lot of trios and tags involving ***** Navarro which featured tons of great matwork and brawling. Solar/Navarro is a great match-up in singles and tags until they do the BS double pin finish to protect both men.


----------



## Violent By Design

Segunda Caida said:


> Check out anything on that blog covering his work from 2009 onwards then, 2009 and 2010 he was involved in high profile feuds which created a lot of trios and tags involving ***** Navarro which featured tons of great matwork and brawling. Solar/Navarro is a great match-up in singles and tags until they do the BS double pin finish to protect both men.


you got any favs?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

too many to mention I'm afraid, they had so many on a semi weekly basis that it kind of blended together. Look for anything 'EPIC' on the complete and accurate, that will be the really high end matches. 'GREAT' could range from close to EPIC status to 'really good for under 7 minutes'. But only the best of the best will get the EPIC status.

I do recall thinking the 28/01/10 trios tag though was a serious contender for MOTY after HBK/Taker II.

GREAT choice on Dandy/Llanes btw, awesome awesome match which Ohtani Jacket adores and anyone who's heard of him will know he's very selective about what he considers amazing. Not to be taken as a criticism of him since at the end of the day like all of us he has his own personal tastes, but if you heard what he considers bad it would probably scare some puro/lucha and WWE/US enthusiasts.


----------



## USAUSA1

So Hector Garza is on his way to PDM and AAA. Should be a fun marriage.


----------



## USAUSA1

Can someone explain to me AAA/TNA relationship? What do AAA get out the deal?

It must be side money because I can't think of anything else.


----------



## smitlick

USAUSA1 said:


> Can someone explain to me AAA/TNA relationship? What do AAA get out the deal?
> 
> It must be side money because I can't think of anything else.


That TNA wrestlers to come in on bigger shows


----------



## USAUSA1

smitlick said:


> That TNA wrestlers to come in on bigger shows


That's it????? TNA have no presence in Mexico. And even if you look at the big names like Sting and Angle they never had any type of presence in Mexico. WWE just got big in Mexico about two to three years ago themselves. I just don't get it. I really don't. The fans in Mexico definitely don't care about TNA, they already getting tired of WWE(tv ratings going down and ticket sales didn't go well for the last tour). 

I personally think Dixie and Panda is giving them some type of money under the table because this is the only way TNA can get any recognition in Mexico.


----------



## Punkhead

New Blood said:


> I haven't seen that yet. I've heard good and bad things about L.A. Park vs. La Parka. But hearing how the atmosphere and everything going into it, makes me want to track it down.


Actually, La Park vs La Parka happened at last year's Triplemania (XVIII)


----------



## Noah Mark

My favorite 2011 Lucha matches:

Hijo De Pirata Morgan/Pirata Morgan vs ***** Navarro/Trauma I-3/3/11
***** Navarro/Shu El Guerrero/El Hijo Del Diablo vs Black Terry/Dr Cerebro/Solar I-3/31/11 IWRG 
Black Terry/Dr Cerebro/Cerebro ***** vs Multifacetico/Eterno/Trauma I-IWRG 4/7/11
***** Navarro/Trauma I/Trauma II vs Pirata Morgan/Barba Roja/El Hijo Del Pirata Morgan-4/14/11 IWRG
La Mascara/La Sombra/Mascara Dorada vs Averno/Mephisto/Ephesto 3/6/11
Angel De Plata/Rey Cometa/Pegasso vs Arkangel De Le Muerto/Nitro/Skandalo-CMLL 4/8/11 
Blue Panther/Super Porky/Toscano vs Ephesto/Hector Garza/Psicosis-CMLL 6/19/11


----------



## Violent By Design

Noah Mark said:


> My favorite 2011 Lucha matches:
> 
> Hijo De Pirata Morgan/Pirata Morgan vs ***** Navarro/Trauma I-3/3/11
> ***** Navarro/Shu El Guerrero/El Hijo Del Diablo vs Black Terry/Dr Cerebro/Solar I-3/31/11 IWRG
> Black Terry/Dr Cerebro/Cerebro ***** vs Multifacetico/Eterno/Trauma I-IWRG 4/7/11
> ***** Navarro/Trauma I/Trauma II vs Pirata Morgan/Barba Roja/El Hijo Del Pirata Morgan-4/14/11 IWRG
> La Mascara/La Sombra/Mascara Dorada vs Averno/Mephisto/Ephesto 3/6/11
> Angel De Plata/Rey Cometa/Pegasso vs Arkangel De Le Muerto/Nitro/Skandalo-CMLL 4/8/11
> Blue Panther/Super Porky/Toscano vs Ephesto/Hector Garza/Psicosis-CMLL 6/19/11


What would you say is your #1?


----------



## Noah Mark

Violent By Design said:


> What would you say is your #1?


The first one on my list. Definately a great match but really didnt get any praise.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Nothing's come close to matching Virus/Guerrero Maya Jr from CMLL in Lucha this year. Tremendous match straight out of 90s CMLL and sure fire proof that Virus is still one of the best around in the world when he gets the opportunity to shine.

Features the dive of the year as well BTW, thought Virus had legit killed Guerrero on it.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Dragon Rojo Jr. for me has been one of my favorite Luchadores this year in CMLL. I don't even have to state how much of a PDM mark I am, as long as they've been around I still haven't lost interest in that stable. As far as women's wrestling is concerned, as I stated in the indy women's thread that for me personally Mexico has produced the best women's wrestling.

La Mascara/La Sombra/Mascara Dorada vs Averno/Mephisto/Ephesto was definitely one of my favorites this year as well. I need to check out that Virus/Guerrero Maya Jr match later.


----------



## juvijuice

Segunda Caida said:


> Nothing's come close to matching Virus/Guerrero Maya Jr from CMLL in Lucha this year. Tremendous match straight out of 90s CMLL and sure fire proof that Virus is still one of the best around in the world when he gets the opportunity to shine.


Just watched this and loved it.


----------



## Yeah1993

MS-1 apparently died in a car accident today. RIP


----------



## Violent By Design

damn..r.i.p


----------



## Momoasdf

so sad to hear that, MS-1 was one of my favourite old school mexican wrestlers


----------



## USAUSA1

MS-1 is what I like to call a beautiful wrestler. Watching some of his matches is like watching a movie. Its so beautiful and something that can only be capture in old school lucha.


----------



## 777

Anyone claiming to love Attitude Era wrestling should be watching the AAA product. It has all the same elements that made the AE great with arguably better wrestling, it's totally over-the-top but 'feels' serious despite the silliness of it all. I enjoy the CMLL product as well, don't get me wrong, but the level of drama and excitement doesn't seem to compare. It's like CMLL is plain vanilla icecream while AAA is Caramel Chocolate Crunch. You know it's too sweet and bad for you but you love eating it anyway cuz it's so fuckin good.

It kinda sucks that here in Canada we don't have access to the Mexican product through regular television, although the internet has made following international/independent wrestling much easier than it was in the 80s & 90s.


----------



## USAUSA1

At first, people was turned off by AAA Attitude era stuff because hardcore matches and lots of dirty finishes and never ending stable wars but somehow some way AAA started to work out the kinks and now its a really good product. I still prefer Pena over the top gimmicks,family friendly product over the Konnan Attitude/ECW version.

CMLL is just a wrestling show with no flow. Nobody in the company knows how to put together a storyline.


----------



## Certified G

Has anyone seen El Zorro vs Jeff Jarrett from TripleMania XIX? Fuck, that's one boring ass match. Jarrett has some good heel antics, but my god it's sooo slow and so boring.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

For the most part I honestly have been very disappointed with the IW boys performances but Jarrett's rank among the top, I can't think of one exciting match he's had since the IW Invasion. Rob Van Dam was pretty good, as was the Beautiful People. Big Rob Terry has been getting a lot of positive feedback for his work and attitude down there.


----------



## 777

The Corre said:


> Has anyone seen El Zorro vs Jeff Jarrett from TripleMania XIX? Fuck, that's one boring ass match. Jarrett has some good heel antics, but my god it's sooo slow and so boring.


Double boring considering the 'high octane' intesity of the AAA product. Zorro also looked horrible in that match, a little bloated and totally off his game. 
Granted, all these things may have been purposeful in trying to garner heat for JJ, but that doesn't make the match any easier to watch.

In general I don't mind the Impact wrestlers being used as its pretty sparse (usually just the big yearly shows) and makes for some interesting matchups, i.e. Mesias vs AJ and Robby T back to back at Guerra de Titanes.


----------



## asdf0501

Meh TNA wreslers in Mexico.

The only thing that matters is that ***** Casas and Blue Panther will have a Hair vs Hair match this weekend and i can't wait to see it.

Also There is a Casas vs La Sombra awesome match 1 or 2 weeks ago, best La Sombra performance in his life.


----------



## Yeah1993

I really should spend the next week tracking down the whole ***** v Panther feud of 2011/2012. A hair match between the two sounds like a MOTDC and I feel like I should see everything leading to it.


----------



## Certified G

Right now I'm watching Dr. Wagner Jr. vs RVD from TripleMania XIX, much better then Jarrett's match. A couple RVD botches here and there but it's a pretty decent match so far.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

I also saw that match for the NWA World Historic Welterweight Championship between Casas and Sombra. Its no secret I'm" a huge Sombra fan and not the biggest fan of Casas but this match was excellent; to see Casas at his age still putting on performances like that is insane. Whether I like him or not is irrelevant the man is a legend end of.


----------



## USAUSA1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4itQpw9_Ng&feature=youtube_gdata


----------



## Rah

Totally anticipating Casas/Panther from last night.

Friend went nuts over it (thankfully I'm remaining unspoilered). The show just cannot come fast enough...


----------



## USAUSA1

Rah said:


> Totally anticipating Casas/Panther from last night.
> 
> Friend went nuts over it (thankfully I'm remaining unspoilered). The show just cannot come fast enough...


You can see most of the match here http://www.youtube.com/user/decadas80s90s2000


----------



## Rah

Thanks, but I'll wait for an official, non-fancam release.


----------



## USAUSA1

Good luck, they might air it today if not then we might not see this match for a very long time.


----------



## Punkhead

Has anyone watched CMLL Torneo de Parejas Increibiles? I'm really happy that Rush and Terrible won. Marco Corleone was really great too.


----------



## Rah

I thought Atlantis & Mr. Niebla won.

My friend watched it and was pleased with it, too. He didn't seem too blown away with any of the matches but, hey, it is a tourney, after all. 

I'll probably watch one or two matches (those of decent length and interest me), but any that you'd say are high and above the others?


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> I'll probably watch one or two matches (those of decent length and interest me), but any that you'd say are high and above the others?


My favourite matches were these:
Marco Corleone and Ultimo Guerrero vs Hijo Del Fantasma and Misterioso (1/8 final)

Rush and Terrible vs Delta and Ephesto (1/8 final) (Rush botched one spot, but the match was good)

Terrible and Rush vs Marco Corleone and Ultimo Guerrero (final)

P. S. Yeah. Atlantis and Mr. Niebla won it at Dos Leyendas. I watched only the tournament itself.


----------



## Punkhead

Can somebody, please, tell me what is currently happening in AAA? Are they still running that TNA angle? Is Abyss still a tag team champion and masked?


----------



## USAUSA1

credit:thecubsfan

Yesterday was Marisela Pena’s birthday. She celebrated it by making El Hijo del Santo look like a fool. At a hearing about the TripleMania DVD lawsuit, Santo was set to testify when Pena demanded Santo unmask. They were in court, and she argued she has the right to face her accuser, and even to see if it’s actually him under the mask. Santo was not going to do this, and it sounds like the judge felt this was unnecessary, but allowed the AAA side to postpone the case while this decision was appealed. The reports are just coming from the Santo side, so keep that in mind. It seems to me that if protecting the rights of individual wrestlers is the most important thing, unmasking yourself for a court case to move this process along is a worthwhile price – AAA would’ve looked cruel if he was forced to do it, but they correctly counted on Santo’s ego not allowing that to happen.

Picture of Santo unmasked
http://legion-anti-borrega.blogspot.com/2008/11/el-hijo-del-santo-sin-mask.html?m=1

Santo is a dumb,egomaniac that's ruining his father name these days.


----------



## milkman7

To me it just sounds like the people of AAA are being dicks.


----------



## USAUSA1

It's payback, he is suing AAA for including him on the DVD of a show where he refuse to lose in the main event and held the promotion up for more money. 

Eye for an eye. 

Santo has become a creep. That's why he using drug dealers to support his little promotion. CMLL don't want to work with him. AAA tried to be nice to him but of course he acted like a jackass.


----------



## B-Boy21

Im going to ask a couple of silly questions but I would like to watch Lucha. After seeing the NJPW/CMLL shows Ive wanted to see more so heres a few questions.

1- Is every match in CMLL 2 out of 3 falls ( this is serious). Ive tryed to watch a few matches but Im not a big fan of the 2 out of 3 falls thing. 

2- How can I watch AAA? I know how to watch CMLL but not AAA.

3- Who are the must see wrestlers from each company ( I like Rush from CMLL and a few others).

4- What are some of the best Lucha matches from this year and years past? 

Sorry to be a pain in the ass, Its just I don't know where to start.


----------



## USAUSA1

1. YES
2.http://www.youtube.com/user/WarriorsX2000
3. CMLL-can never go wrong with Rey Bucanero Jr., Dorada, La Mascara. AAA has a lot but I like Dark Dragon,Aerostar,Mesias. 
4. Too hard too answer, Mesias vs. Wagner Triplemania match is a good start for recent years.


----------



## Punkhead

El Santo screwed El Santo.


----------



## Rah

B-Boy21 said:


> Im going to ask a couple of silly questions but I would like to watch Lucha. After seeing the NJPW/CMLL shows Ive wanted to see more so heres a few questions.
> 
> 1- Is every match in CMLL 2 out of 3 falls ( this is serious). Ive tryed to watch a few matches but Im not a big fan of the 2 out of 3 falls thing.
> 
> 2- How can I watch AAA? I know how to watch CMLL but not AAA.
> 
> 3- Who are the must see wrestlers from each company ( I like Rush from CMLL and a few others).
> 
> 4- What are some of the best Lucha matches from this year and years past?
> 
> Sorry to be a pain in the ass, Its just I don't know where to start.



Those shows are how I got into Lucha, too (FantasticaMania 2010 to be precise). I'm a sucker for crazy flips and athletic spots so the style was almost a godsend for me.

1) No, they have lightning matches which are basically balls-to-the-wall sprints. They're not that common, but they do pop up from time to time. I was in the same position as you when I first started, but I've gotten used to the format. I must admit the modern Panico booking can be irksome (two short falls and one long third fall), but give it some time and you'll get into the flow. Admittedly, it can help add to the tension of the match when both wrestlers are tied up, or there's need for emotion in the final round.

2) http://www.youtube.com/user/WarriorsX2000
Subbed that channel a long while ago but I've never watched anything from it. I'm not a fan of videos in part files. I'm sure if you Google around (or check the media section here) you'll find some one-shot links.

3) I'm only a CMLL fanboy so I can only comment on their talent, but you can't go far wrong with Rush, Volador Jr, La Sombra, La Mascara (mah boi :mark and Averno. On a whole, the legends are mostly prone to putting on stunning matches despite their age (especially in IWRG's Maestro matches, if that's your sort of thing). If you see anything with Super Porky in it, however, run, run very far away.

4) 
*2012*
* ***** Casas Vs Blue Panther (Hair Vs Hair)
* El Hijo del Santo y Villano IV vs El Hijo del Solitario y Ángel Blanco Jr. (It's in three parts on Youtube only, sorry)
* Black Terry Vs Chico Che
* Reyes Del Aire (if you're interested in a ~50 minute match)

As for older matches your best bet is probably to look through Segunda Caida's extensive lists (especially the Black Terry one) and watching all the matches he marked as "EPIC". The "Top Lucha Matches of All-Time" list on luchawiki is also a very good start for those new to the style with matches from as far as 25 years ago.

If I'm to be honest, I don't watch every show nor match. I don't even think I could; as for every great aspect I like, there seems to be just as many (or even more) aspects I despise. As such, I follow storylines and news on Cubsfan's website (if you're to visit any of these links make sure it is this one, it's your best one-stop-shop for lucha anywhere) and only watch matches that either seems integral to the feud or matches that may be match of the year contenders. Besides all that, I wouldn't have the time to watch all the wrestling I do if I was too bogged down by the number of promotions and shows in Mexico alone. 

I'd also suggest watching Chikara and any Japanese promotions that tend to work a more lucharesu (a somewhat amalgamated combination of Lucha Libre and Japanese Puroresu) style - such as Michinoku Pro Wrestling and to a lesser extent Osaka Pro and Dragon Gate just to help establish your own niche within the style. 

Hope this helps, and enjoy Lucha!


----------



## Punkhead

CMLL 2012.03.10 results:
This episode featured 1st part of Homenaje a Dos Leyendas.

Marcela defeated Ayumi

Olimpico, Averno & Mr. Aguila defeated Valiente, Brazo de Plata & Angel de Oro

Atlantis & Mr. Niebla defeated Rush & El Terrible to win Torneo de Parejas Increibiles 2012


----------



## B-Boy21

Just watched the Blue Panther vs ***** Caras match from 3.10.2012. I didn't like the finish but Loved the match. ****1/2 Really awesome.


----------



## Rah

They had to ensure the feud didn't end there. I agree that it felt a little flat, but outside of interference there wasn't really much that could lead to a draw. They passed the title on to Casas purely for this feud, so it would have been silly not to incorporate it. In the post-match segment Panther challenged Casas to a future fight where, if he was man enough, the title would be on the line.

*News regarding CMLL:* Panico has been removed from CMLL's booking position and placed at the helm of managing beer distribution in the arenas. Blue Panther has taken his place in booking.


----------



## smitlick

Devitts off the Mexico tour of CMLL due to Injury


----------



## Punkhead

smitlick said:


> Devitts off the Mexico tour of CMLL due to Injury


That is so bad. H was looking forward to see Prince Devitt in CMLL :sad:


----------



## Rah

Posted it in the Puro section but, yeah, very disappointing news.

He never managed to even wrestle a match so it seems he flew in with the injury and was not medically cleared upon arrival. Of all the wrestlers to replace him with, though, why choose Shocker?!


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> Posted it in the Puro section but, yeah, very disappointing news.
> 
> He never managed to even wrestle a match so it seems he flew in with the injury and was not medically cleared upon arrival. Of all the wrestlers to replace him with, though, why choose Shocker?!


I was looking forward to seeing him in Mexico an it's sad.

What do you have against Shocker? A man is in his 40s and can still wrestle better than some wrestlers, who are 20 years old.


----------



## Rah

The saying "average at best" fits no one better than Shocker. 

Thankfully he won't be in the match I was most excited for but, even then, Marco Corleone isn't exactly good, either. What a way to take some truly exciting matches and then make them completely unremarkable with mid to low-tier talent.

The whole older wrestlers cannot go ideology in Mexico doesn't really wash, anyway. Look at Casas, Panther, Nevarro, Black Terry and almost all the legends still going. _They still have it_. For someone with as much in-ring experience as Shocker, he's not very good. Give them a couple of years and I'm almost positive the younger guys will be leaps and bounds ahead.

Mascara Dorada is 23 and La Sombra is 22. They're pretty damn good and someone I'd much rather see wrestling than Shocker.


----------



## Punkhead

Do you guys go to luchawiki? If yes, are you signed up there? If yes, what is your username? Mine is LuchaLover619


----------



## seabs

*Devitt desperately needs to an extended break. I swear he's been carrying injuries and knocks for well over a year now and he isn't putting out many great matches for the risk.*


----------



## USAUSA1

Rah said:


> The saying "average at best" fits no one better than Shocker.
> 
> Thankfully he won't be in the match I was most excited for but, even then, Marco Corleone isn't exactly good, either. What a way to take some truly exciting matches and then make them completely unremarkable with mid to low-tier talent.
> 
> The whole older wrestlers cannot go ideology in Mexico doesn't really wash, anyway. Look at Casas, Panther, Nevarro, Black Terry and almost all the legends still going. _They still have it_. For someone with as much in-ring experience as Shocker, he's not very good. Give them a couple of years and I'm almost positive the younger guys will be leaps and bounds ahead.
> 
> Mascara Dorada is 23 and La Sombra is 22. They're pretty damn good and someone I'd much rather see wrestling than Shocker.


Don't worry they have a good 20-30 years left in their careers.


----------



## Punkhead

Mascara Dorada, La Sombra, La Mascara, Angel de Oro, Rush. All they are the future of lucha libre.


----------



## New Blood

Just curious, how did everyone get into lucha?

I didn't start seriously getting into wrestling until about 1999 (I had casually watched since 1996) and while WWF was my favorite promotion, I just loved wrestling all around which led me to WCW, ECW (I remember buying as many tapes as I could), any local indies and then lucha. I started watching FMW in 2000 but didn't get serious about puro until 2006.

Back to lucha, I had come across the Spanish channels on DirecTV and they were playing CMLL at the time. Like most wrestling fans, I didn't take it very seriously but I was entertained. It was a completely different style but unlike other wrestling fans, I didn't have trouble understanding it. I loved the mat work (in the good matches) which was different then what I was seeing in the U.S. wrestling and the dives were spectacular. Unlike puro or indy wrestling, finding a ton of lucha was very difficult to find unless you were buying comps. I didn't really start following it until about 2009 when I started to look elsewhere for wrestling since I was getting burnt out on American indy and Puro.

Since then, I've been looking for tons of 80s and early 90s lucha which is a pretty tough feat but I've found some truly golden stuff.

Seriously folks, don't overlook Santanico.


----------



## New Blood

For those who love great lucha brawls, weird ending aside, really need to check this out:

La Fiera vs. Jerry Estrada Chain Match
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVvPiNvOEyM&feature=channel_video_title


----------



## USAUSA1

Lucha for me go back to the early 90's, than we started to see luchadores in ECW,WCW and WWE that it was hard to miss. But I didn't become a hardcore fan until around 2004 when I stumble across an indy lucha match featuring Abismo *****,La Park or La Parka forgot which one,and two other guys in a cage match. It wasn't an awesome match but I was intrigue by everything around it. Mistico/UG rivalry, Billy Boy/Gran Apache, Mistico/Perro rivalry just blew me away. The rest is history.


----------



## 777

It was the WCW/AAA collaboration When Worlds Collide in 94 that really introduced me to lucha libre. Octagon/Santo vs Barr/Guerrero stands out as a great match but the entire show was enjoyable. I remember being fascinated with a completely new avenue to explore as a pro wrestling fan.


----------



## Punkhead

La Sombra is my current favourite.

Can you recommend me any good lucha de apuesta matches I should watch?


----------



## USAUSA1

I hate Hijo Del Santo as a person who trying to hurt his father name but he is still a great wrestler and performer. Angel Blanco Jr./El Hijo del Solitario vs. El Hijo Del Santo/Villano IV, TXT 2/25/12 is a great lucha brawl and classic Hijo Del Santo.


----------



## Punkhead

777 said:


> It was the WCW/AAA collaboration When Worlds Collide in 94 that really introduced me to lucha libre. Octagon/Santo vs Barr/Guerrero stands out as a great match but the entire show was enjoyable. I remember being fascinated with a completely new avenue to explore as a pro wrestling fan.


This was the first time, when lucha libre was introduced to American audience.


----------



## 777

TomasThunder619 said:


> This was the first time, when lucha libre was introduced to American audience.


Or Canadian audience as it were.


----------



## 777

A huge fan of the annual Rey de Reyes tournament. Been enjoying the matches this year immensly, AAA has a pretty deep roster and the four-ways are a great way to start new feuds leading into Triplemania. I kinda like how the last couple of years the tourney has been aired on television over several weeks as opposed to the one big event.


----------



## Momoasdf

TomasThunder619 said:


> La Sombra is my current favourite.
> 
> Can you recommend me any good lucha de apuesta matches I should watch?


From any time and any wrestler??? 

***** Casas vs Hijo del Santo from 1987 and Villano IV vs Atlantis from 2000 are easy recomendations they are in youtube. Both of them are two of the greatest matches from all time.

But if you say wich luchadores you like if you have seem some lucha, maybe I could recomend more.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

*Ugh, I can't believe that AAA is trying for yet another Psicosis after the fail that was Psicosis III. Whatever, II ain't bad but the original is still the best and I doubt they let him take the mask again.

*I'm" so glad to see Teddy Hart back in AAA, it looks like he resolved his problems with Konnan and The Penas so that's good.

*Man Argenis is lucky to be Mistico's cousin, not saying he is bad because he's not but those blood ties are definitely helping his push.

*Not surprised in the slightest that my boy Perro Jr. won Rey De Reyes this year he's been the MVP of AAA other than Evans and possibly Wagner.

*I wouldn't mind it if Perro Jr. won the AAA Heavyweight Title; I don't really care El Mesias that much anymore so his title win did nothing for me but it's a step up from Jarrett I guess as he really didn't do anything exciting with the belt.


----------



## 777

Matt_Yoda said:


> *Not surprised in the slightest that my boy Perro Jr. won Rey De Reyes this year he's been the MVP of AAA other than Evans and possibly Wagner.
> 
> *I wouldn't mind it if Perro Jr. won the AAA Heavyweight Title; I don't really care El Mesias that much anymore so his title win did nothing for me but it's a step up from Jarrett I guess as he really didn't do anything exciting with the belt.


I'm happy about Perro's win too, he's had a great run so far in AAA, but my vote for MVP would be Park, hands down.


----------



## Punkhead

Momoasdf said:


> From any time and any wrestler???
> 
> ***** Casas vs Hijo del Santo from 1987 and Villano IV vs Atlantis from 2000 are easy recomendations they are in youtube. Both of them are two of the greatest matches from all time.
> 
> But if you say wich luchadores you like if you have seem some lucha, maybe I could recomend more.


What are some good matches between Mistico/Averno? Also LA Park, Cibernetico.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

777 said:


> I'm happy about Perro's win too, he's had a great run so far in AAA, but my vote for MVP would be Park, hands down.


Can't blame you for that, LA Park had an amazing 2011 especially in the latter half of the year which I especially enjoyed.


----------



## theanticanadian

Lucha Libre USA is apparently on tour in the southwest... my buddy is going to their show in Fresno. It's actually a pretty good card: http://luchalibreusa.com/fresno-event-page/


----------



## USAUSA1

Lucha Libre USA is full of it. They booking these huge arenas, they need an average of 3000 people per show for the tour to be successful but the first show only drew 1000. 

They need to throw money at Santo and just book Santo vs. Blue Demon in every city in the main event. Maybe they might do something. I heard tonight show featuring LA Park vs. Latin Lover, I actually want too see that match.

The ticket prices are too much, $30-75 for LLUSA. I supported LLUSA on MTV2 but they are so unrealistic with these shows. The reason why AAA don't do shows in the US is because LLUSA have a contract to promote AAA shows in the states but that should end real soon.


----------



## USAUSA1

MASKED REPUBLIC TO DISTRIBUTE AAA'S NEW 1-HOUR HD PROGRAM "AAA LUCHA LIBRE" WORLDWIDE


Mexico's #1 Lucha Libre (Mexican Wrestling) League To Be Available Outside North America For The First Time In Company's 20 Year Plus History
March 28, 2012 - San Diego, CA

The wonderfully colorful and amazingly entertaining world of lucha libre, well known for its masks, acrobatics, and often circus like antics, is the most popular sport in Mexico next to soccer. For the past two decades, AAA Lucha Libre, has been the premiere company bringing its brand to the fans with nightly live events throughout the country, a weekly television show airing on Televisa in Mexico and on Galavision in the U.S., and the country's only regular running wrestling Pay Per View events including their annual mega-show TripleMania. 

Now, teaming with Masked Republic, AAA is primed to deliver an all-new 1-hour all HD format of its wildly popular show for international syndication. 

"For many years now we have known that our fans all over the world have been waiting to see AAA on their televisions, and that fans of wrestling who have not yet been exposed to our product will gravitate to it once they see what we have to offer," said AAA President Marisela Pena. "We are happy to be working with Masked Republic, a company that understands both the world of lucha libre and the foreign television landscape. This is a great new opportunity both for AAA and fans of lucha libre around the world." 

"The vision that I had over a decade ago, and has since become a mission for everyone at Masked Republic, is becoming a reality: bringing lucha libre to the masses around the world," said Masked Republic founder and CEO Ruben Zamora. 

"Ever since AAA started selling out the L.A. Sports Arena in the early 1990s, I knew that lucha libre had a huge future outside its homeland," said Masked Republic President Kevin Kleinrock. "Bringing the AAA product out of Mexico and to the rest of the world has been a goal of mine for a number of years now and with Masked Republic's mission of expanding lucha libre beyond its current borders, the timing was finally right. We could not be more excited." 

With the industry's biggest stars, including LA Park, Dr. Wagner Jr., El Mesias, Octagon, Cibernetico, Perro Aguayo Jr., and Konnan, and the hottest young stars, including Extreme Tiger, Jack Evans, Fenix, and Daga, along with guest stars from top wrestling companies in the U.S. and Japan, AAA Lucha Libre delivers non-stop, action-packed, high-flying, dramatic, colorful sports entertainment like no one else in the world. 

AAA Lucha Libre is distributed by Masked Republic in association with the company's exclusive international distributor. Broadcasters interested in the program can email [email protected] or visit MaskedRepublic.com.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Congrats are in order for AAA, wish them all the success and they keep getting bigger and bigger with every passing year.


----------



## Momoasdf

TomasThunder619 said:


> What are some good matches between Mistico/Averno? Also LA Park, Cibernetico.


Místico vs Averno from 1/30/2005 is the best match between them, followed by the 2/11/2005.

Also, they've been in a great tag team match Mistico/***** Casas vs Averno/Mephisto.

Most of them should be easy to find in youtube.

LA Park had many good matches, his bloodbath against Hijo del Santo from December 2001 is my favourite.

Any match between LA Park and Sabu, and La Park against Sabu is very good.

Last year La Park had two very funny brawls against La Parka.

I think that's a good way to start. They're all in youtube, too.


----------



## USAUSA1

Yeah the December 2001 match between LA Park vs. Hijo Del Santo is beautiful, one of those matches that can be in the movies. Blood use at it finest. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCss0V0cw5A


----------



## Punkhead

WOW! Angel Blanco Jr. lost his mask to LA Park!


----------



## mex_kllr_13

Nope , he lose to Hijo Del Santo in a very good match , it was a Triple Threat by Elimination , the other wrestler was Hijo De Solitario and in this Show El Dandy announce that he will retire from wrestling this was in an idependent Show named el Todo x el Todo


----------



## Punkhead

Yeah, sorry. NOT La Park. My bad.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

*Holy shit Prince Devitt beat Volador Jr. for the NWA Middleweight Championship! I had found out from a friend of mine a few days ago and my lucha provider hasn't uploaded the match yet. I can't wait to see this. Curious to see who can take it back from Devitt.

*A bit surprised Euforia and Terrible went over Lee and Rush; I'm" a Lee mark so I'm" a bit disappointed he and rush couldn't get the job done.

*Goodness gracious I love Perros Del Mal so damn much, they just signed the very awesome Los Traumas to the promotion in addition to Los Traumaas possibly coming in with them to AAA. I know PdM also signed some Canadian talent to the promotion as well, I believe one of them was trained by Lance Storm.

*I'm" curious to see the AAA/Outsiders joint show to see some of these guys work with Luchadores. The thought of Chris Masters attempting headscissor arm drags and backflips makes me chuckle.

*I got to say that I'm" frustrated that AAA would spoil a potentially great angle with Hart/Evans already. Hart just got back and I would've preferred for AAA to wait to get these guys face to face with other. Though when I think about it they may be building towards TripleMania for a match with these two. On the other hand, it looks like they're going to be doing something with Halloween, possibly a rift between PdM and La Familia.


----------



## Rah

If Sombra doesn't take it from Devitt in Japan I will be surprised.

If he does take it back from Devitt I will (possibly) be annoyed.


----------



## Punkhead

Devitt should come to CMLL more often. That was fun!


----------



## USAUSA1

Devitt definitely fits in with CMLL. Liger does too. Devitt vs Volador was an awesome match.

Triplemania main event will either be Perro Jr vs. Mesias or Perro Jr vs. Mesias vs. Garza. 

I also love how AAA/PDM/IWRG works together. That would be like WWE/ROH/Chikara working together. I just wish AAA would stop using TNA guys.


----------



## 777

I've been enjoying the addition of the Consejo faction in AAA, who on initial invasion I thought might actually be CMLL invading, if only for a moment. It's pretty ballsy to write a story around another promotion like that but it seems to be working even though the members are predominately mid-card/upper mid-card. I'm just enjoying that dynamic for the moment, fun stuff.


----------



## 777

Finally got around to watching Devitt/Volador. Very good match, only brought down by the fact that they spent the majority of the first fall trying to find a proper flow and were noticably out of sync. Second and third falls were awesome though.


----------



## CAT IN THE HAT

Matt_Yoda said:


> *Holy shit Prince Devitt beat Volador Jr. for the NWA Middleweight Championship! I had found out from a friend of mine a few days ago and my lucha provider hasn't uploaded the match yet. I can't wait to see this. Curious to see who can take it back from Devitt.
> 
> *A bit surprised Euforia and Terrible went over Lee and Rush; I'm" a Lee mark so I'm" a bit disappointed he and rush couldn't get the job done.
> 
> *Goodness gracious I love Perros Del Mal so damn much, they just signed the very awesome Los Traumas to the promotion in addition to Los Traumaas possibly coming in with them to AAA. I know PdM also signed some Canadian talent to the promotion as well, I believe one of them was trained by Lance Storm.
> 
> *I'm" curious to see the AAA/Outsiders joint show to see some of these guys work with Luchadores. The thought of Chris Masters attempting headscissor arm drags and backflips makes me chuckle.
> 
> *I got to say that I'm" frustrated that AAA would spoil a potentially great angle with Hart/Evans already. Hart just got back and I would've preferred for AAA to wait to get these guys face to face with other. Though when I think about it they may be building towards TripleMania for a match with these two. On the other hand, it looks like they're going to be doing something with Halloween, possibly a rift between PdM and La Familia.


I downloaded the match yesterday. It was a good match.


----------



## Punkhead

Terrible and Euforia won Gran Alternativa 2012 by defeating Triton and Atlantis in the finals.


----------



## Cactus

*El Hijo Del Santo vs ***** Casas
EMLL; 1997/09/09*

_My first taste of lucha and I enjoyed it for the most part. There are parts of lucha that I can't say I'm a fan of, such as the uncooperative matwork and execution of moves. It just made the beginning mat sequences quite dull and some of the moves looked sloppy. Guess I'm going to have to get use to that if I want to get into lucha.

The stiffness and intensity of the strikes from both men really made the match. Even before they lock-up for the first time, ***** kicks away at Santo's leg and he sells it like death (possibly even over-doing it but it made it clear that Santo has a major weakness, so I guess it's okay). Santo tries to keep ***** grounded but he's not having this and viciously goes for Santo's leg. ***** was great at this and got a lot of heat from the crowd for not only ruthlessly attacking the babyface hero, but also for his great facial expressions and how he carried himself in general. He looked like a real dickhead.

Santo eventually says 'fuck this' to his plan to keep his opponent grounded and unleashes stiff punches and kicks on ***** and things are now more even. The crowd goes nuts as this and proves Santo's comeback a success. A few of Santo's aerial attacks felt a tad unnecessary though. 

I'm too high on the finish. Santo goes for a camel clutch but ***** struggles and Santo just switches to the armbar and gets the win. The struggle seemed quite pointless and add on top of that a lack of near-falls and I'd say the finish felt out of place.

A good introduction to lucha, overall. _

*Rating: *****


----------



## 777

Spent the better part of the day listening to Konnan and Court Bauer on MLW Radio. Looks like it's going to be another big year for LA Park and I'm interested to see if Teddy Hart can keep his shit together and put on some decent matches in his feud with Evans. With the current roster and direction in AAA, I have no doubts that this year's Triplemania will have stacked card and be a phenomenal show.


----------



## Punkhead

Cactus said:


> *El Hijo Del Santo vs ***** Casas
> EMLL; 1997/09/09*
> 
> _My first taste of lucha and I enjoyed it for the most part. There are parts of lucha that I can't say I'm a fan of, such as the uncooperative matwork and execution of moves. It just made the beginning mat sequences quite dull and some of the moves looked sloppy. Guess I'm going to have to get use to that if I want to get into lucha.
> 
> The stiffness and intensity of the strikes from both men really made the match. Even before they lock-up for the first time, ***** kicks away at Santo's leg and he sells it like death (possibly even over-doing it but it made it clear that Santo has a major weakness, so I guess it's okay). Santo tries to keep ***** grounded but he's not having this and viciously goes for Santo's leg. ***** was great at this and got a lot of heat from the crowd for not only ruthlessly attacking the babyface hero, but also for his great facial expressions and how he carried himself in general. He looked like a real dickhead.
> 
> Santo eventually says 'fuck this' to his plan to keep his opponent grounded and unleashes stiff punches and kicks on ***** and things are now more even. The crowd goes nuts as this and proves Santo's comeback a success. A few of Santo's aerial attacks felt a tad unnecessary though.
> 
> I'm too high on the finish. Santo goes for a camel clutch but ***** struggles and Santo just switches to the armbar and gets the win. The struggle seemed quite pointless and add on top of that a lack of near-falls and I'd say the finish felt out of place.
> 
> A good introduction to lucha, overall. _
> 
> *Rating: *****


Link?


----------



## Cactus

TomasThunder619 said:


> Link?


http://vimeo.com/40438493


----------



## smitlick

*AAA - TripleMania 17 - 13/6/09*

*1. AAA Cruiserweight Title - Hardcore Match*
Extreme Tiger vs Alex Koslov vs Crazy Boy vs Alan Stone
***1/2

*2. AAA Mega Heavyweight Title & UWA Heavyweight Title*
El Mesias vs Dr Wagner Jr
****


----------



## 777

Really enjoying Octagon as a rudo. Feels fresh and he seems reinvigorated visibly putting effort into heel antics, whereas his technico routine had become second nature.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

777 said:


> Really enjoying Octagon as a rudo. Feels fresh and he seems reinvigorated visibly putting effort into heel antics, whereas his technico routine had become second nature.


Agreed, I remember saying some months back that after being a technico for his entire run I wasn't sure if he could be able to pull it off but he has done very well in his role and is seemingly motivated to be a believable and effective rudo.


----------



## Punkhead

I haven't watched any new lucha show for a month now. Does anybody know where can I download new CMLL shows? Or maybe AAA or Perros del Mal, or any other lucha libre show? Please.


----------



## 777

I just watch on Youtube most of the time. WarriorsX2000 is pretty good about uploading the weeklies quickly. Can find AAA, PDM, CMLL and Todo X El Todo on that channel. 

When I post here, I try to relate one or two of my most poignant observations with the current product. This week I found myself thinking what a great character Nicho Millianario has become, much more flexible story-wise than the original Psicosis gimmick. 

Also, I've seen several posters on the forum mention how much they've been enjoying Rush and I gotta admit the kid has a look and works at an acceptable level, he's just not a character you'd ever catch me cheering for personally. I don't like Adonis archetypes myself, but I understand their appeal.


----------



## Punkhead

777 said:


> Also, I've seen several posters on the forum mention how much they've been enjoying Rush and I gotta admit the kid has a look and works at an acceptable level, he's just not a character you'd ever catch me cheering for personally. I don't like Adonis archetypes myself, but I understand their appeal.


Yeah. Rush is my favourite current luchador. He is big, muscular, yet can still work highflying lucha libre style. And he's very young


----------



## Matt_Yoda

*Volador Jr. vs. Prince Devitt- NWA Middleweight Championship
CMLL on Televisa 2012*

-Some good early sequences to start the match. Both hits their big moves and scored their respective fall pretty early but it kept the crowd on their toes so it worked; I liked the summersault plancha followed with the double stop/Bloody Sunday combination which was a nice sequence for his fall. Some more nice exchanges follow and Devitt’s all like WTF to the crowd lol. Back in the ring where Volador hits a sick catch powerbomb on an in-flight Devitt. Nice counter from Devitt rolling into a modified camel clutch, but Volador not to be shown up rolls Devitt into a beautiful cross-legged heel hook. Some great near falls and lots of drama down the ending stretch and the finish was fantastic; I was all like SWERVE lol. Overall, really good match and despite Devitt being built up to this match as technico, the crowd was abundantly behind Volador Jr. here.

*Mascara Dorada vs. Averno- CMLL World Welterweight Championship
CMLL Guadalajara 2012*

-Very solid match between these guys. Love Averno, he’s so damn charismatic and such a great dickish rudo and Mascara Dorada’s exciting offense compliments his rudo antics well. First fall sees Averno flattens Dorada with a Double Arm Facebuster, and then they start to pick up the face. Out of nowhere Dorada hit a gorgeous over the top rope hurricanrana and the rollup pin for the second fall. Nice headscissor/twister press sequence by Dorada, but Averno comes back with countering Dorada’s springboard sunset into the STF. Dorada sold the shit out of that boot the chest lol followed soon after by Averno hitting a sick double arm facebuster from the top and the crowd popped big for the kickout by Dorada. Great finish with a beautiful springboard transitioned into a roll up. Pretty much par the course for these two guys, which means a very solid and easy to sit through championship match.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Got to say that I'm" looking forward the seeing the upcoming tapings from AAA, the 4/30 tapings are more appealing to me:

AAA 04/30 TV Taping Lineup
1) Argenis & Atomic Boy vs. Gran Apache & Tito Santana II 
2) Fabi Apache vs. Mari Apache 
3) Mascarita Dorada & Octagoncito II vs., Mini Charly Manson & Mini Psicosis 
4) Daga, Jack Evans, & Extreme Tiger vs. Dark Dragon, Decnnis, & Teddy Hart 
5) Dr. Wagner Jr. & Silver Kain vs. Texano Jr. & Mascara Ano 2000 Jr. 
6) Juventud Guerrera & La Parka Jr. vs. Chessman & Jeff Jarrett 

AAA 05/06 TV Taping Lineup
1) Fabi Apache, Mascarita Dorada, & Octagoncito II vs. Sexy Star, Mini Histeria, & Mini Psicosis 
2) Daga & Fenix vs. Cuervo & Ozz 
3) Monster Clown, Murder Clown, & Psycho Clown vs. Hector Garza, Halloween, & Psicosis 
4) AAA Tag Team Titles: Abyss & Chessman (c) vs. Juventud Guerrera & Joe Lider 
5) Cibernetico & Dr. Wagner Jr. vs. Perro Aguayo Jr. & Jeff Jarrett 

As far as CMLL is concerned, I can't wait to check out Sombra vs. Rojo Jr. for the CMLL Middleweight Title, two of my favorite luchas hamming it up for the strap. Also, my best wishes out to El Mesias and nothing against the guy, but its likely he may miss TripleMania so I hoping that they strip him of the belt and have Perro Jr. win it so Mesias can come back and do the whole revenge angle.

___

*Drago, Fenix & Heavy Metal vs. El Consejo
AAA on Televisa- 2012*

-Very fun Trios match here. Starts off with the small vs. big guy shoulder block spot but Ano Jr. isn’t going down and Drago tries for a sneak pin followed by Ano Jr. giving him a STO takedown to major heat. Fenix tags in and cleans house before the rudos get the upperhand. The technicos fight back with Fenix hitting a sick Death Valley Driver on Toscano into the corner. After some more back and forth, the finish comes from a distraction by El Hombre de *****, allowed Texano Jr. to deck the shit out of Fenix with a Lariat followed by the Powerbomb/Back Stabber combination. Overall, very good Trios match further establishing El Consejo.

I will say that Fenix was the star in this match though; dude is charismatic as hell and hit a lot nice spots (my favorite being the Kobashi chops followed by the bitchslap). He’s really improved over the last year.


----------



## OAP

Kinda new here. Does any have any ideas for what might be going on with La Park for Triplemania?


----------



## Punkhead

OAP said:


> Kinda new here. Does any have any ideas for what might be going on with La Park for Triplemania?


He is feuding with Jeff Jarett now, so probably they are going to face eachother at Triplemania XX.


----------



## Punkhead

Here is the first Triplemania XX promo:






I'm more a fan of CMLL, but still waiting for it.


----------



## OAP

Thanks for posting that. That's a pretty sick promo. I heard they just moved Triplemania back to August though


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Its a shame that they had to push TripleMania back, but I guess they really want Mesias to be on the card. This does give AAA the opportunity to build more towards the show so its good in that regard.

Until then I can't to see Dragonmania VII, I hope that my lucha provider can get ahold of the show. Good looking card and the Dragon Scramble match looks insane, here is the card for those that don't know:



> *-Singles Match-
> Kana vs. Syuri
> 
> -Handicap Match-
> Akebono & Brazo de Plata vs. Arkangel de la Muerte, Loco Max & Rey Bucanero
> 
> -Dragon Scramble Match for the NWA International Jr. Heavyweight Championship-
> Ultimo Dragon (champion) vs. Angelico vs. Durango Kid vs. Escandalo vs. Hijo de Fantasma vs. Magnus vs. Ultimo Guerrero vs. Hajime Ohara vs. Tatsuhito Takaiwa*


----------



## Punkhead

Matt_Yoda said:


> Until then I can't to see Dragonmania VII, I hope that *my lucha provider* can get ahold of the show. Good looking card and the Dragon Scramble match looks insane, here is the card for those that don't know:


Just wondering, who is your lucha provider?


----------



## Violent By Design

Jarret and La Park are going to meet at Triplemania? I am interested...


----------



## USAUSA1

They moved it back so they can run the new Arena Ciudad de Mexico that just opened.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

TomasThunder619 said:


> Just wondering, who is your lucha provider?


A guy named Leslie from an old forum I used to be on way back, otherwise I go to thecubsfan and retro80s90s on YouTube and another user on dailymotion (always forget his name though).


----------



## 777

***** Casas vs Angel de Oro - NWA Welterweight Title Match - CMLL Guerreros del Ring - Taped 04-29-12 - Aired 05-05-12

First and formost, a very good match. Casas holds court as usual giving a rub to Angel through some solid ring work and sequences. CMLL desperately needs to get some of these young up and comers over to fill the technico vacuum following the Caras/Wagner/Mistico exodus. 
To the match itself, lots of submission and grappling as Casas grounded the usually high-flying Angel de Oro. The younger held his own through 20 plus minutes, though his 'green' shone through on several occasions, and rudo Casas was actively attempting to make him look great throughout. 
Not quite Casas/Panther (still my MOTY by the way) but a fun contest that had me legitimately questioning the result. 

Looking forward to Angel de Oro honing his skills further on the international stage as he represents CMLL at the BOSJ tourney in Japan.


----------



## Punkhead

Here are some Triplemania XX news:



> Yesterday, Dorian Roldan announced TripleMania would take place in August. TripleMania has tended to be a June event in recent years (it’s moved around the calendar a few times), and rumors over the last month suggested it’d be moved to July. This is even later. AAA has not confirmed a specific date or location as of yet, or even explained why it’s in August and not June.
> 
> The immediate effect is heavyweight champion El Mesías, announced as needing three months to return from a bicep injury, would make it back in time. Mesias feels like AAA’s third most popular tecnico (behind L.A. Par-K and Dr. Wagner Jr., and Cibernético has an argument), but he’s always central to AAA’s plans and they’d definitely prefer to involve him in their biggest show of the year. I don’t think Mesias’ injury is the reason AAA’s pushing back TripleMania, but it’s a nice benefit of the move.
> 
> Moving TripleMania to August stacks up the major events in the second half of the year. This seemed like a problem when TripleMania was only going back to July. August for TripleMania means no Verano de Escandalo this year. Pushing back TripleMania also means AAA would go five months between shows with big matches, an extraordinary long time.
> 
> AAA appears to have figured out a solution to this problem: this week’s Wrestling Observer Newsletter says they’ll be holding a Night of Champions (Noche de Campeons?) in Orizaba. The WON gives a date of 05/18, which must be a typo – they tape on 05/17 in Chilpancingo and no 05/18 show has been announced anywhere. Something like 06/17 would fit, and everything else starts to fit once you assume there still is a major show coming up in June. AAA specifically announced title matches in Merida, which didn’t seem to make sense when TripleMania was thought to be in July and would be very silly if they were holding them off until August. It makes a lot of sense to be announcing title matches if you’re running a title match show in six weeks (and it’ll be more like four when the announcements start airing.)
> 
> AAA’s current champions, who’d presumably be defending at a Night of Champions
> Minis: Mini Psicosis – already set to face Mascarita Dorada)
> Women: Sexy Star – already set to face Fabi Apache + 2 more (Mari Apache and a tecnica or a TNA woman?)
> Mixed Tag: Alan Stone & Jennifer Blake – Alan’s a tecnico, Jen is not? No specific challengers
> Cruiser: Jack Evans – vs Teddy Hart, maybe more
> Latin America: L.A. Par-K – vs Jeff Jarrett? vs Perro Aguayo Jr.?
> Tag: Abyss & Chessman – seems like a multiman, but this explains why Abyss didn’t lose in Merida
> Trios: Psycho Circus – vs undefeated Consejo? vs Maniacos?
> Heavy: Mesías – stripped of his title? Perro defends/”earns” #1 contendership vs Wagner?
> 
> That’s 8 matches, the size of a major show. If AAA skips on doing something with the Heavyweight title or the Mixed Tag, that leaves room for the Psicosis vs Joe Líder death match they’ve been setting up.
> 
> Source: the excellent www.luchablog.com


----------



## smitlick

*Viva La Lucha - Continental Conflict*

1. Miss Jackie & NY Knockout Nikki vs Christina Von Eerie & Jennifer Blake
*1/4

2. Los Luchas vs The Natural Selection vs The RockNES Monsters
*
The Natural Selection are awful

3. Extreme Tiger & Jack Evans vs X-Fly & Bestia 666
**3/4

4. Charlie Haas, Super Crazy & Tommy Wilson vs Konnan, Damian 666 & Halloween
*1/2

5. Blue Demon Jr, Booker T & El Mesias vs Shelton Benjamin, Big V & Hernandez
**3/4


----------



## Punkhead

Hey, guys. I just tought I would post this, in case anyone cares. These are CMLL's En Busca de Un Idolo current standings. (Luchador and number of points):

*
------------------------------
|1. Titan | 136 |
------------------------------
|2. Euforia | 130 |
------------------------------
|3. Diamante | 113 |
------------------------------
|4. Polvora | 109 |
------------------------------
|5. Triton | 100 |
------------------------------
|6. Dragon Lee | 94 |
------------------------------
|7. Puma King | 86 |
------------------------------
|8. Niebla Roja | 78 |
------------------------------
*


----------



## USAUSA1

Listen to the Konnan show, LLUSA/AAA will settle real soon. He promise a big announcement coming up in a couple of months related to this news. But who knows, Konnan could be BSing. 

Touring should be their main focus. Their last tour in the US in 2009 average over 5000 fans per show with 7000 being the most for one show. They have a solid fan base in the states.


----------



## 777

Watching Jack Evans vs Teddy Hart in trios action this week. Was struck by a couple of things, firstly they've both come a long way. Their pacing, storytelling, selling etc., they've both advanced immensely over the last decade. Second, How North American their in-ring style really is when in the context of lucha libre, particularly when wrestling each other. 

Evans is a superstar in AAA and I'm not surprised he hasn't made a move back to the states yet. He's getting better and better all the time, two years ago while he was competing against the likes of Extreme Tiger I would have put my money on Tiger getting the bigger longer push and reaching the next level of stardom. Not to say that Tiger won't advance or is less talented, but Evans has left him behind and is moving out of the cruiserweight division and into the upper mid-card. Feuding with the likes of Perro jr. is a pretty big deal for a ****** like Evans.


----------



## USAUSA1

AAA is kind of a stepping stone to WWE. Jack Evans is not leaving unless WWE come calling. 

Fans in Mexico loves Jack Evans(and they used to love Xpac and Ron Killings as well). They don't care about the other gringos like Teddy Hart,Jeff Jarrett,Hernandez,Abyss. Konnan keep using these guys and I don't know why. 

Jeff Jarrett never been a draw . He was a lifetime mid carder in WWE, he was on top of WCW at the end when they were dying barely drawing 2000 people to shows, he created TNA and couldn't draw there. Why do Konnan insist on bringing him in and feuding with the top guys?


----------



## mk92071

I've always wanted to get into AAA or other lucha libre, what is a good starting point?


----------



## mex_kllr_13

USAUSA1 said:


> AAA is kind of a stepping stone to WWE. Jack Evans is not leaving unless WWE come calling.
> 
> Fans in Mexico loves Jack Evans(and they used to love Xpac and Ron Killings as well). They don't care about the other gringos like Teddy Hart,Jeff Jarrett,Hernandez,Abyss. Konnan keep using these guys and I don't know why.
> 
> Jeff Jarrett never been a draw . He was a lifetime mid carder in WWE, he was on top of WCW at the end when they were dying barely drawing 2000 people to shows, he created TNA and couldn't draw there. Why do Konnan insist on bringing him in and feuding with the top guys?


Teddy hart is n awesome heel and he has a great reaction the others im agree , Jack Evans isone of the top guys in AAA he has been around weekly shows and a lot of things and I hope this Triplemania have matches like Hecto Garza vs El Mesias for the title and Wagner vs La Park will be a dream match hope one day happens


----------



## 777

mex_kllr_13 said:


> Teddy hart is n awesome heel and he has a great reaction the others im agree , Jack Evans isone of the top guys in AAA he has been around weekly shows and a lot of things and I hope this Triplemania have matches like Hecto Garza vs El Mesias for the title and Wagner vs La Park will be a dream match hope one day happens







AAA Heroes Inmortales: 2011-12-16

Also see CMLL's 75th Anniversario.


----------



## Punkhead

Does anybody here follow Perros del Mal? What is going on there?


----------



## mex_kllr_13

TomasThunder619 said:


> Does anybody here follow Perros del Mal? What is going on there?


Well Perros Del Mal wrestlers are more involved in AAA , Damian 666 and bestia leave Perros Del Mal for Some Indie Shows , the last show was in april theya have some interesting wrestlers and they ara advertising PERROS DEL MAL 4 that will be a mega show but its all rumors they also have hired some indie wrestlers but they doesnt have weekly shows and that things the next thing is perros del mal 4 and continue to be in AAA Shows


----------



## mex_kllr_13

mk92071 said:


> I've always wanted to get into AAA or other lucha libre, what is a good starting point?


Try to find some CMLL aniversario shows or AAA triplemania or verano de escandalo events and iwgr if you want send me a private message and I give some links I dont know if I cant post here videos


----------



## milkman7

mk92071 said:


> I've always wanted to get into AAA or other lucha libre, what is a good starting point?


Check out some El Hijo del Santo and ***** Casas. They are the best lucha workers of all-time. 

https://vimeo.com/40438493 - This is their match from 97, it's a legitimate candidate for greatest lucha match of all-time, and top 5 all-time for any style.


----------



## mex_kllr_13

Some news first in CMLL Black Warrior will face REY ESCORPIÓN in a hair vs hair match, it will be a good fight I think Rey Escorpion will win

And the Night Of CHampions in Chilpancingo results were this 
L.A. PARK beats Chessman and retain de Campeonato Latinoamericano 
El Consejo capture the Campeonato de Tercias AAA beating Los Psycho Circus (Psycho Clown, Monster Clown y Murder Clown)
Juventud Guerrera is the new CAMPEON CRUCERO he beats Jack Evans Teddy Hart and PSiCOSIS
Sexy Star is stille the womens champ and Mini pSCOSIS is still the mini champ


----------



## seabs

*Mistico vs Dr. Wagner Jr. - CMLL 7/27/2007*
_Like. A Lot. Mistico still mostly sucks in this and I think I've seen enough Mistico matches from Mexico now to say that he really isn't very good at all. Thankfully though the atmosphere and the greatness of Wagner more than pulls this through. 1st fall is great and much better than the normal Mistico gets destroyed for the first fall shtick. Atmosphere makes it feel like a really big time event and the split crowd gives it that extra special buzz too. Adored Wagner at the start. Total dick and he completely murders Mistico. Unmasks him after the pin and parades around with his mask in between the 1st and 2nd fall. 2nd fall starts off really hot too Mistico dissapeared after losing his mask and turned up in the crowd to dive from the balcony onto Wagner. Mistico gets bloodied up and even though it's not a massive bloody lucha brawl the blood makes it feel even bigger. There's these 4 babes in the front row who I'm considering nominating for workers of the decade. Pretty sure they were plants based on how much attention they got but there's a small part of that's holding out hope they weren't. They're fucking nuts for Mistico and are like the best babyface fans ever. Wagner threatens to bitch slap one of them at one point and the coward in fear. Amazing. They fucking lose their shit when Mistico dives right by them and ends up in their lap. Best thing Mistico has ever done. I'm gonna be dreaming about the one in the red top tonight. Dreamy man. Assuming they were plants they're the best plants ever and I want these plants in every crowd. Insane, nuts, working harder than half of the actual wrestlers and HOT. Holding out hope as well that on the DVD release there's an easter egg at the end that ends up being a Girls Gone Wild promo with them after the show filmed by Mistico. Like them girls gone wild, like them girls gone. Anyway Mistico sucks btw. Usual stuff like silly over selling, terrible comebacks. He gets killed enough by the greatness of Wagner to make up for it though. Finish kinda sucked. I think so at least. Some lucha guy dressed as an imposter of Soldier Ant from CHIKARA comes out and destroys Wagner to set up the cheap win. Comes after Wagner fucking kills Mistico with a powerbomb on the floor right in front of my ladies. He poses a ton after and mocks the plants/babes. Greatest spot in the history of Lucha. Once Soldier Ant is finished doing his community service Mistico suddenly revives and leaps in for the pin and celebrates his win and more likely his amazing revival. He fucking revives from the dead man! Like on Pokemon on the Game Boy when you get the revive option. HE'S ALIVE AGAIN. Crowd continues to make this way better than it would be without them and give the finish massive heat. Pretty sure it was a Wagner babyface turn and/or not a Mistico heel turn. If that was Mistico turning heel then it fucking sucked. He ran for his life after celebrating his revival when the ring started being pelted with garbage so I'm confident he didn't turn heel and he was expecting everyone to love him all over again. Useless Cunt. Best Lucha match I've watched so far. I'll stick it at the bottom of my list if I don't end up with more than a handful of Lucha matches._

*****1/4*


----------



## USAUSA1

Best Lucha Match from last week:

I don't do star ratings or write reviews but my favorite lucha match of last week was Dr. Wagner Jr. & Silver King vs Máscara Año 2000 Jr. & Texano Jr. that air on AAA tv. It was an extremely fun tag team match, nothing to spotty, not a "workrate" type match for the smarks BUT it was just a fun tag team match that wanted you too see more. The ending might turn some people off but it serve a purpose. The brothers is an awesome team.

Didn't watch any CMLL last week. Didn't have enough time and plus, I am bias to Rey Bucanero Jr. Any match with him will most likely be my match of the week for CMLL.


----------



## 777

Really love watching Mary Apache wrestle. It looks like (much to my delight) they're going to carry the Mary vs Fabi Apache feud through to Triplemania. These two ladies have such great chemistry as partners and even better chemistry as opponents as can be seen in their show-stealing match at Triplemania 16. It's a contest I recommend and the one I most often cite when suggesting that women's wrestling can be awesome.

Edit: When's Reina de Reina? Maybe it would blow-off there instead.


----------



## USAUSA1

I don't like women wrestling, Shimmer,Joshi,TNA Knockouts,etc. but I LOVE Fabi and Mari Apache. Those two women have that emotional chemistry you can't teach. Obviously they are sisters but they make it work. Their chemistry is like Bret and Owen Hart chemistry. Every single match are either very good or great.


----------



## Punkhead

777 said:


> Edit: When's Reina de Reina? Maybe it would blow-off there instead.


Not sure what you mean. Reina de Reinas is a championship, not event.

Yeah. I love Fabi vs Mari feud. Way better, than WWE. I hope it will happen at Triplemania this year.


----------



## 777

TomasThunder619 said:


> Not sure what you mean. Reina de Reinas is a championship, not event.
> 
> Yeah. I love Fabi vs Mari feud. Way better, than WWE. I hope it will happen at Triplemania this year.


I mean they could book Fabi and Mari in the final match or four way at the event. It's still a single event, just airs as television or part of one of the other big shows. Could even role it into Triplemania if they wanted.


----------



## USAUSA1

They just did a match last week, I am expecting a mix tag match for Triplemania.


----------



## Punkhead

Puma King just took Karisma's mask in a 12 man cage match in Arena Puebla at a CMLL event, Yesterday (Monday, May 28).


----------



## USAUSA1

Dorada vs. Psicosis was a great match. Dorada did one of the best moves at the end of the match that has to be seen to get the full effect. 

Konnan and Dave Meltzer had an AWESOME radio show on MLW.com. Konnan keep hinting to something big. I am predicting either a US/Canada only ppv or a Internet PPV for North America. They have to get permission from Televisa to do anything tv wise. If AAA can do the impossible and get a show on Univision, that would turn the wrestling world upside down but that probably will never happen. Syndication in major markets like LA,Chicago,NYC and Houston would be great as well. Or maybe Triplemania in the US. Can't wait to see what Konnan is working on.

Haven't watch last week AAA yet but in the process.


----------



## 777

Great AAA TV this week. Wish I spoke Spanish, anyone fill me in on what's going on with Sexy Star and Fabi? I heard Reina de Reina mentioned in there somewhere.

As much as I love Nicho/Psicosis, the man has to change his in-ring style, for the sake of his safety and the safety of others. He was taking insane bumps this week, I realize he's pushing the schizo character angle and I wanna see the bloodletting that will be the Nicho/Lider blow-off as much as anyone, but his legs are a mess.


----------



## rzombie1988

mex_kllr_13 said:


> Try to find some CMLL aniversario shows or AAA triplemania or verano de escandalo events and iwgr if you want send me a private message and I give some links I dont know if I cant post here videos


I'd say When World's Collide since it's in english, but other than that whatever you can find on youtube or if you have a channel that carries it check it out. I reccomend checking out Atlantis vs Villano 3 Mask vs Mask as it was my match of the decade for the 2000's.


----------



## Punkhead

If you want lucha libre in english, watch Lucha Libre USA, WCW-AAA When Worlds Collide, WWF Los Super Astros (yes, WWE had its own lucha libre show back in 1997-1998)


----------



## USAUSA1

Triplemania XX August 5th. http://luchalibreaaa.com/triplemania-xx-ya-tiene-fecha-y-sede.php

It's on a Sunday. Possible US ppv LIVE airing as well? Konnan did say he had an announcement coming up soon. That's the only thing I can come up with. Triplemania usually happens on Saturday.


----------



## 777

I'm familiar with the English speaking lucha products, in fact World's Collide was my intro back in the 90's. I just wish my Spanish was more fluent so as not to miss important details in the current product as the rapid fire series of rolling Rs tends to lose me from time to time. I have similar issues with Puro, but one of the great things about 'pro-wrestling' is the simplicity, storytelling and characters that comes across despite language barriers.

That said, I'd be down for something akin to what USA1 is alluding to. Konnan has been trying to bring lucha libre to North America for what seems like forever. Even if it was something as simple a AAA on TV with an 'English announce team'.


----------



## Violent By Design

Anyone have any recommendations for Dorada matches? Saw the one with Psicosis and he was very fun to watch.


----------



## 777

Dragon Rojo Jr. vs La Sombra - CMLL World Middle Weight Championship - Guerreros del Ring 2012-05-26 

Thumbs up, two blue-chippers and potential superstars in a hard hitting affair for a major title. I liked it better than Devitt/Volador despite being spot-heavy and story-light (pretty simple power/strength vs speed/agility). Very quick pace but manages to come off as very clean and technically sound. Rojo's multiple powerbomb variations really made this match for me, I hope to see him featured very prominently heading forward.


----------



## Punkhead

Can anyone recommend me any good rudo vs rudo matches? I love them.


----------



## Punkhead

*CMLL Super Viernes 2001-11-09*

*Relevos Atomicos*
*Atlantis, El Hijo del Santo, ***** Casas and Rey Misterio Jr.* (tecnicos) vs *Black Tiger #3, Fuerza Guerrera, Juventud Guerrera and Nicho el Millonario* (rudos)

*****1/4*​
I watched this match only, because Rey Mysterio Jr. was there.

*1st Fall*
Match starts with some chaos, as all 8 men are brawling inside and outside of the ring. Rudos control it. All rudos team up on ***** Casas, then Atlantis and Hijo del Santo. Rey Mysterio is somewhere outside of the ring. Black Tiger and Nicho el Milionsrio double-suplex Atlantis. Rey Mysterio Jr. comes out of nowhere, tries to do a springboard moonsault, bus ***** Casas catches him and reverses it into a powerslam to take the first fall. A quick fall, in which rudos dominated all the time.

*2nd Fall*
Fuerza Guerrera kisses Juventud Guerrera. Weird. 2nd fall starts with Atlantis and Fuerza Guerrera. Atlantis performs catapult, quebradora. Camera cuts to fans and I didn't understand, what happened, but when is showed the ring, Rey Mysterio Jr. was (finally) there against Juventud Guerrera. Rey Mysterio does an incredible huricanrana and Juvi falls out of the ring. Then Rey does a apron-to-floor huricanrana. Hijo del Santo and Nicho el Milionario are in the ring. They exchange various running attacks and Hijo del Santo does an impressive huricanrana to throw Nicho outside. Rey Mysterio is tagged in and is double teamed by Fuerza and Tiger. They try to do something like Doomsday Device, Rey escapes it and, instead, gets caught by a flying clothesline. Hijo del Santo, Rey Mysterio and Atlantis destroy rudos for a moment, Atlantis is going crazy with his Quebradora Backbreakers, bur rudos, once again, gain control. Atlantis and Hijo del Santo are outside. Nicho el Milionario tries split-legged moonsault, but boches and lands head first on the apron. Juventud Guerrera lands good on ***** Casas. Meanwhile, Hijo del Santo and Rey Mysterio are being destroyed by Black Tiger and Fuerza Guerrera. Suddenly, tecnicos take back the control and Hijo del Santo sunset powerbombs Nicho el Milionario from the apron to on the floor. Rey mysterio catches Fuerza Guerrera with a top rope huricanrana and takes the second fall.

*3rd Fall*
Atlantis starts last fall with Black Tiger. They exchange typical lucha style running and dodging and Atlantis catches Tiger with a crossbody, Quebradora, tries some submission maneuver, but Juventud comes in and saves Tiger. Juvi is attacked by Santo and Rey Mysterio. Rey does a guilliotina leg drop from the apron into the ring, but lands right on the face of Juventud Guerrera. He refuses to continue and goes out of the ring, holding his face. ***** Casas beats Nicho with some big boots and Nicho goes out of the ring. Casas jumps out and goes after him. Rey Mysterio tries another springboard moonsault and again is catched, this time by Fuerza Guerrera. He puts Rey head down into corner and spears him. Goes for the second spear, but Rey Mysterio moves out of the way. Rey then does an awesome reverse top rope huricanrana to Black Tiger and awesome hurianrana to throw him out of the ring. ***** Casas does an incredible spinning package pin on Nicho el Milionario to take the third fall. Tecnicos win it 2-1.

*After the match*
Tecnicos pose in the ring and celebrate with the fans. Nicho el Milionario, angry, says something about his family and Perros del Mal.


----------



## Violent By Design

Did Rey Mysterio have any other good performances in CMLL?


----------



## Punkhead

He had very few matches in CMLL and this was the best.


----------



## OAP

Just watched an interview with Dorian Roldan on the upcoming Triplemania. In it he mentioned that he's searching for a tough opponent to face L.A. Park. Don't know what that means for the Jarret/Park situation, but Roldan mentioned that he's trying to bring in Kurt Angle. That sounds extremely interesting :shocked:. I was hoping they would think about giving Sting a shot, but i don't know how they would build that up. Can't wait to see how that plays out. (Y)


----------



## USAUSA1

I rather see JJ and Angle wayyyyyyyyyyy before Sting. That would be the biggest waste ever. Plus, WCW and currently TNA never had a big presence in Mexico, so Sting is pretty much irrelevant in Mexico. Mexico fans know Angle from WWE. Dorian and Konnan be pissing me off. The fans in Mexico prefer the regular guys. I think Dorian/Konnan use Americans to sell to other countries networks. 

I am still waiting for that Aerostar, Laredo Kid,etc. push Konnan promise every year on Dave Meltzer radio.


----------



## OAP

Yea I hear you on that one. I guess its the similar color their gimmicks have that make it interesting, but your right about the different presences Angle and Sting have in Mexico.


----------



## USAUSA1

Angle vs. LA Park would probably be awesome, even JJ vs. La Park but Sting vs. La Park need an all time miracle from La Park.

If they bring in Sting, have him face Chessman or something. 

Perro vs. Mesias with some Cibernetico involvement is the main event.


----------



## 777

Sting vs Mesias last year was OK from a North American fan perspective, but it was definitely one of Mesias' weaker matches. I would be inclined to agree that the inclusion of TNA talent is more about reaching out to fans across the border than appealing to the Mexican audience. 

Angle vs Park could be fantastic work-wise though.


----------



## USAUSA1

The things La Park and Angle could do would be crazy. 

From what I understand, they try to get Angle before but the price was high. TNA must charge more for Angle than Sting. 

I feel like they really trying to pull out all the stops this year. New Arena, 20th Triplemania. Two of the biggest names in lucha in the main event(maybe the biggest since Mistico is in the WWE and Hijo Del Santo fell off). I know this will probably end of the biggest grossing event in company history due to high ticket prices but it's TRIPLEMANIA, people will pay. There's Wrestlemania,NJPW annual January Tokyo Dome show and then Triplemania.


----------



## USAUSA1

AAA TV (SAT) 06/16/2012 Plaza de Toros El Pinal, Teziutlan, Puebla
1) Aerostar, Argenis, Atomic Boy vs Gran Apache, Semental, Tito Santana
2) Joe Lider vs Psicosis
3) Daga, Extreme Tiger, Juventud Guerrera vs Dark Dragon, Halloween, Teddy Hart
4) Dr. Wagner Jr. & Silver King vs Máscara Año 2000 Jr. & Texano Jr.
5) Cibernético, Electroshock, Zorro vs Chessman, el Hijo del Perro Aguayo, Héctor Garza

Air Date: 07/01 (and 07/08?)

This taping looks freakin awesome


----------



## TelkEvolon

777 said:


> Dragon Rojo Jr. vs La Sombra - CMLL World Middle Weight Championship - Guerreros del Ring 2012-05-26
> 
> Thumbs up, two blue-chippers and potential superstars in a hard hitting affair for a major title. I liked it better than Devitt/Volador despite being spot-heavy and story-light (pretty simple power/strength vs speed/agility). Very quick pace but manages to come off as very clean and technically sound. Rojo's multiple powerbomb variations really made this match for me, I hope to see him featured very prominently heading forward.


Tried watching this match, was a real struggle and I just couldn't do it, everything felt so light and floaty, cool powerbombs but nothing really had any impact. Just felt weak.


----------



## 777

TelkEvolon said:


> Tried watching this match, was a real struggle and I just couldn't do it, everything felt so light and floaty, cool powerbombs but nothing really had any impact. Just felt weak.


Fair enough, I suppose it would depend on what one was comparing it with. Within the realm of CMLL and their presentation it was a nice tidy match, hard hitting as oppose to most trios action, but nowhere near the level of say Casas/Panther. There seems to be a tradeoff in lucha where upping the impact can add to the excitement but detracts from the stylized approach. Finding a good balance isn't a particularly easy feat.


----------



## TelkEvolon

777 said:


> Fair enough, I suppose it would depend on what one was comparing it with. Within the realm of CMLL and their presentation it was a nice tidy match, hard hitting as oppose to most trios action, but nowhere near the level of say Casas/Panther. There seems to be a tradeoff in lucha where upping the impact can add to the excitement but detracts from the stylized approach. Finding a good balance isn't a particularly easy feat.


Yeah, I never watched much Lucha..... At all. Figured I'd give it a try, that style just isn't for me I guess. I think it it's not going to be hard hitting, then it should be some wild spot fest.

Will have to try and get onto some more.

Any recommendations, isn't much to go off, but maybe a match that isn't like that one? I feel like that is more of a match for a real Lucha fan, not someone trying to get into it.


----------



## 777

TelkEvolon said:


> Yeah, I never watched much Lucha..... At all. Figured I'd give it a try, that style just isn't for me I guess. I think it it's not going to be hard hitting, then it should be some wild spot fest.
> 
> Will have to try and get onto some more.
> 
> Any recommendations, isn't much to go off, but maybe a match that isn't like that one? I feel like that is more of a match for a real Lucha fan, not someone trying to get into it.


For years, I've been touting AAA product to anyone who'll give me the time of day. It has an Attitude Era/ECW feel/approach with very gimmicky booking/writing. The in-ring product is also a lot more aggressive but there's a trade-off in that it becomes clustered or sloppy looking at times. 

At present the roster consists of some of the best workers in Mexico, particularly if you're looking for a puro/lucha hybrid. I'd recommend matches featuring Dr. Wagner Jr., LA Park or El Mesias. Their matches tend to have a 'big match' atmosphere, a combination of mat work and high risk, great psychology and plenty of spots.


----------



## USAUSA1

Recent years
Villano V vs. Blue Panther mask match, one of the greatest matches of all time
Wagner vs. Mesias from Triplemania 17, one of the greatest matches of ALL TIME
La Park vs. La Parka Triplemania 18
La Park vs. Mesias Triplemania 19

Check for Bam Bam mini matches, he is awesome.


----------



## Violent By Design

USAUSA1 said:


> Recent years
> Villano V vs. Blue Panther mask match, one of the greatest matches of all time
> Wagner vs. Mesias from Triplemania 17, one of the greatest matches of ALL TIME
> La Park vs. La Parka Triplemania 18
> La Park vs. Mesias Triplemania 19
> *
> Check for Bam Bam mini matches, he is awesome.*


some of those might not be flashy enough to break him in.

though speak more on the bold, i am intredasted.


----------



## TelkEvolon

777 said:


> For years, I've been touting AAA product to anyone who'll give me the time of day. It has an Attitude Era/ECW feel/approach with very gimmicky booking/writing. The in-ring product is also a lot more aggressive but there's a trade-off in that it becomes clustered or sloppy looking at times.
> 
> At present the roster consists of some of the best workers in Mexico, particularly if you're looking for a puro/lucha hybrid. I'd recommend matches featuring Dr. Wagner Jr., LA Park or El Mesias. Their matches tend to have a 'big match' atmosphere, a combination of mat work and high risk, great psychology and plenty of spots.


Oh yeah, from hat I hve seen I think I would be WAY more into AAA, just more familiar with the roster as they get around in other companies a hell of a lot more. I remember enjoying the stuff with D-Genertion Mex & Hart Foundation 2.0

Might have to check out more AAA now that I am thinking about it.


----------



## Yeah1993

TelkEvolon said:


> I feel like that is more of a match for a real Lucha fan, not someone trying to get into it.


I've been a lucha lover for a while and gave the match a go out of curiosity and didn't think it was anything special. I wasn't really seeing things as 'weak', but it didn't feel like I was watching a good match, either.


----------



## USAUSA1

Violent By Design said:


> some of those might not be flashy enough to break him in.
> 
> though speak more on the bold, i am intredasted.


I suggest Bam Bam matches with Demus 3:16/Pequeno Damian. Really, I should of just said CMLL mini Division from 2008. You can't go wrong with any of those matches. I remember watching the C3 stream every Saturday just to see their matches. 

He might be turn off by the flash, so I suggest those matches because they have the BIG TIME match feel and two of those matches is legit classics in my personal opinion.


----------



## 777

Yeah1993 said:


> I've been a lucha lover for a while and gave the match a go out of curiosity and didn't think it was anything special. I wasn't really seeing things as 'weak', but it didn't feel like I was watching a good match, either.


Out of curiosity and a willingness to further lucha discourse, what exactly did you like/dislike about it? While I agree that it wasn't necessarily anything special, it still felt like a 'good' match to me. I am particularly fond of watching up-and-coming talent try to make a name for themselves/piecing together a decent contest.

The CMLL product feels pretty stagnant much of the time but I watch a lot of it and finding a match that stands out in any way is a bit of a chore.


----------



## Yeah1993

Probably sounded like I was underselling it because I sure didn't think it was bad, but it didn't strike me as....anything, really. Just an OK match with OK stuff in it. I suppose I kind of like something in a match to really stick out; that match was perfetcly fine work, but they didn't really do anything that felt different to a regular "by the numbers" sort of match. They were doing nifty moves and pulling them off nicely. Sort of a cliche, but I kind want a 'story' to a match. This is the only 2012 lucha match I've watched so far, so maybe I missed some back-feud things, but...was either guy a rudo? Neither guy came across like it. 

The match was definitely tilted more towards 'good' than 'bad', because it wasn't bad at all. the kind of thing I didn't mind watching for twelve minutes, but not something I thought was like 'three stars' (for lack of a better way of putting it)


----------



## USAUSA1

New Rules Change for CMLL Tags. Credit:thecubsfan



> CMLL’s new tag rules
> 
> Over the last couple of months, there’s been one very evident change in CMLL’s matches. It’s nothing that’s been formerly announced, and there doesn’t appear to be a specific moment where the change took place, but it’s something the luchadors have clearly been instructed about, and have fallen in line with over the course of this spring. It’s a stylistic change casual fans probably do not notice, but is evident if you compare a match from June to January.
> 
> CMLL is now enforcing ten counts on tags. If luchadors aren’t out of the ring at the count of ten, their team is disqualified and the fall is over. That disqualification has only been used twice [1] to my knowledge so far, in the first fall of the 05/14 DF vs Pegasso match in Arena Puebla. The announcers didn’t know why Tirantes called the DQ was called [2], but Tirantes was very obviously speed counting to 10, just as he’d do for count out of the ring finish is done for count out finishes.
> 
> The same occurred on 05/27 in Arena Coliseo, in the second fall of the Avernos vs Panther/Shocker/Porky match. That time, the referee yelled out each number to make it clear, though still no one had any idea what was going on (and the luchadors sold confusion.)
> 
> This is not really about another potential DQ finish [3], it’s about how it’s changed the flow off all the other matches. Gone are the days of three rudos lingering in the ring, yelling at the crowd and waiting for a tecnico to roll in for a kick. It’s now one rudo does a couple of moves, tag [5] to the next rudo, that guy does some moves, and maybe every one does a corner charge bit quick, but they’re not hanging around after.
> 
> CMLL is only using this rule as a DQ very sparingly, but the luchadors are reacting as though they’re risking significant trouble by breaking it. That means there’s something going on beyond what we’re seeing in the ring – verbal warnings, fines, a strong argument for doing things this way now – that’s keeping everyone in line. Luchadors are independent free-thinker types who do not all share the same opinion on how to have a good match. Any uniform change by all, young or experienced, stick out as something very atypical.
> 
> Enforcing the ten count fundamentally changes the basic story of a lucha libre match. The idea has always been that tecnicos are generally better than the rudos at wrestling technique than the rudos, and the rudos can only gain an advantage by cheating. In CMLL trios, the rudos have cheated by ignoring the tag rules and using a numerical advantage. Averno can’t stop Mistico one on one, but if Mephisto and Ephesto are also in the ring helping him out, at least one will be able to get in a shot from behind, and Mistico will need some sort of miracle comeback (or rudo laziness) to defeat them. Now, Mephisto and Ephesto are forced to stay on the apron and watch, but Averno still controls Mistico for a while because something needs to be done to set up the comeback. The rudo is now equally as talented as the tecnico, able to get the better of him one on one for a portion of the match, and does not necessarily need to cheat to do so. The story of the matches has changed.
> 
> There are ways of getting around the rule enforcement change. The TRT guys, Terrible especially, have been doing a great job of having one guy sneak in the ring from behind to get a cheap shot, allowing their partner to start with an unfair advantage. Others are adapting by doing their old bits, but just standing legally on the apron while doing them. The Tuareg grab their opponents legs near the corner to set up Skandalo’s low blow corner dropkick, and sometimes just drag tecnicos over to their corner so everyone within arms reach can get in a shot. The rule itself seems to be downplayed when it’s time to do the comeback spot itself. Many of the typical bits (like “everyone does a move to everyone else) are based on all the rudos being in the ring to start the sequence, and they’ve not gone anywhere. The chaotic multiple dive finishes aren’t going anywhere either. That still leaves the bulk of the rudo segments where they’re no long winning because they’re cheating, but because it’s just their time to win.
> 
> Limiting matches to mostly one on one brings CMLL makes visually closer to those elsewhere in the world. It also helps the credibility of the referees. They’re no longer stuck standing in the background, asking two guys to leave while being completely ignored. They now look more in control of the match rather than unwilling passengers. They are not getting rid of the comeback spot; AAA’s attempts to do hot tag psychology rarely seemed to be understood by the fans, and what’s happening here is not so foreign as to confuse anyone about what’s going on.
> 
> It’s still an odd and random change to the structure of CMLL matches, with no obvious reason. I have not seen anyone else even mention it (and I realize it’s fairly likely this is something that’s only sticking out to me and seems no big deal to anyone else), so there can’t be many explanations for something no one’s even noted. I’ve come up with two theories, though nothing bunch hunches for either.
> 
> The first is that CMLL’s business is still down. It’s not horrific, though the Tuesday shows have recently been so empty that I’ve started to wonder if the Wrestling Observer might be actually over inflating the attendance for once. CMLL still believes this is a situation mostly out of their control, but surely wants to do something so they don’t feel totally without control. When you live in a smaller apartment than you’d like, sometimes you rearrange the furniture. Maybe moving the TV from one room to another doesn’t give you what you actually want, a bigger apartment, but it feels better for a while.
> 
> The second theory is because of another bit of furniture rearranging we know of. If Panico has been moved out of the lead programming position – his presence at the Warrior/Escorpion contract signing makes it at least a bit questionable, but that’s what we’ve heard – then it’s a new person leading the group, and every person has their own minor quirks about the product. If I was in charge, I’d have everyone wearing in captain armbands within three months. It may not make a whole lot of difference to the bottom line, but it’d fit my vision of what the product should be. Maybe the new guy in charge, or whoever has the conch shell at the moment, just decided their vision of the matches was a more serious product were the rules were enforced and four judges ripped Polvora on a weekly basis for his lackluster matches. I’ve heard of stranger things.
> 
> (1) – there was an odd DQ in the 04/20 women’s match which looked like “illegal hair pulling” – another thing that’s never been called! – but could’ve also been too long in the ring.
> 
> (2) – which is very odd, because if all the luchadors know, Miguel, Julio and Jesus are aware of it.
> 
> (3) – if it was, they would brought in the “going over the barricade is a DQ” rule from the UWA (4). Instead, every rudo’s new favorite game is trying to figure out a way to over sell something and go over it.
> 
> (4) – The UWA is the all time king of screwy finishes to get out of actual decisions. They were nearly dead, drawing 100 people in Arena Neza, and doing draw finishes in meaningless trios matches. The 1995 results are astounding in the same way the 1999 WCW results must be amazingly crazy if you weren’t emotionally invested in the promotion.
> 
> (5) – there’s a slightly enforcement change with tags too. They’ve been doing a lot of disallowed tag spots of late: the tecnico is an armbar, reaches for a tag, makes the tag, but the referee won’t let the new tecnico in and both he and the announcers are baffeled. The wrestlers now must have a hand on their corner to make a tag, and it can be strictly enforced.


That's interesting

I really think CMLL need to do nothing but lightning matches for TV because they only got a hour for all their shows except C3 (which is two hours). 2/3 falls concept has been rip apart. For non big matches, each fall is only 3-5 minutes long. In the big matches, the first two falls is done in like 6 minutes and the rest of the match is the last fall. Terrible formula


----------



## 777

Finally got to watch the Rey Escorpion/Black Warrior Cabellera match. Some nice spots, I liked it and we'll see where these two go from here.

I also feel a change in formula is in order. Not even necessarily eliminating the 2/3 falls stipulation, but at least changing up the pace/timing for different effects.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Agreed as well, they could use the 2/3 Falls to their advantage in building drama to the match (moreso in their big matches) but CMLL has typically followed the same formula for a number of years now as far as match structure if I remember, with little added alterations every now and then.

Congrats to The Juice for ending the reign of Jack Evans, Evans had a fantastic reign (mostly for the second half) but it was time to take it off of him. Man Juvy doesn't age for shit.

EDIT:
By the way, thinking of checking out Rush/Yujiro for the CMLL LHW Strap, has anyone seen it and is it worth a look?


----------



## 777

Rush/Yujiro was actually pretty good. A great showcase of Rush's range and he came out looking like a million bucks. Was a little sloppy at first but they steadily built a decent little piece of business with a variety of strike exchanges, high spots and mat work. I was pretty impressed by Rush and could see him becoming a huge star in the future if the stars align. Yujiro is a great hand and brought a lot of different stuff out of his opponent.


----------



## Punkhead

As I see, there are people, who know a lot about lucha libre. Sign up to Luchawiki.org. I'm there too.


----------



## Smith_Jensen

New person wrestling as Mistico


> After a year and a half of waiting by people that actually care, EMLL officially created their new Mistico today with Dragon Lee officially unmasking and being anointed by Fray Tormenta as the new Mistico. This is a pretty controversial decision as Dragon Lee is a polarizing figure among the internet lucha fan community although not as much as his brother Rush. The story was that Fray Tormenta was in Dragon’s corner last Friday at Arena Mexico and was so impressed with his ability that he offered him the chance of a lifetime to become the new The announcement was preceded by the promotion bringing out the four En Busca de un Idolo semifinalists where Dragon Lee finished third behind Titan & Euforia who will battle it out on Friday at Arena Mexico to determine the winner. Whoever wins that match will get a grand prize of an all expenses paid trip to Cancun, a free one-year membership at a gym, a spot on the New Japan tour next January, movement up the cards, and a shot at the CMLL title in their weight class which is kinda funny because the guy they finished ahead of has already become a bigger star than them.


Source: Gerweck
http://www.gerweck.net/2012/06/20/the-birth-of-a-new-mistico/


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Good luck to Dragon Lee, I'm" not that big on the guy but he's pretty talented however I don't think he is in the position to take the title of Mistico II, those are some huge expectations to live up to hopefully this isn't forced (because it sounds like it is) is CMLL really that desperate for a new marquee star?

EDIT:
Went ahead and checked out Rush/Yujiro, great match.


----------



## Punkhead

I am really shocked about the new Mistico. But why Dragon Lee?

P. S. Still to watch Rush/Yujiro match.


----------



## Punkhead

Sorry for double post.


----------



## jaguardeldiablo

Magnus - Mistico
Dragon Lee - Mistico

CMLL You Bad Bad Bada.


----------



## USAUSA1

This is nothing new in lucha libre and I am surprise it took this long. Right now, Mistico II will be extremely over due to the lack of stars in CMLL. The gimmick sells. I am not expecting a huge jump at the gate but I expect their Friday shows to average 2000 more fans than normal if CMLL don't screw it up.

You can make an argument that La Parka Jr was at one point more popular than La ParK. Psicosis II has been doing a good job with the gimmick as well. Anything is possible.


----------



## 777

I don't know who that chick is that hangs off of Perro and get's involved at ringside, but she's a better worker than fucking Lolita. Lolita fuckin sucks...and I almost never say that about any talent.


----------



## Punkhead

Mistico II (Dragon Lee) still didn't make his debut. Anyone knows when is it going to happen?


----------



## Punkhead

Here is the newest Triplemania XX promo:


----------



## Matt_Yoda

777 said:


> I don't know who that chick is that hangs off of Perro and get's involved at ringside, but she's a better worker than fucking Lolita. Lolita fuckin sucks...and I almost never say that about any talent.


That's Tera Valkyre one of Lance Storm's students. I'm" surprised you would say that about Lolita, I'm" actually quite the fan of hers. My only real issue with her is her lack of timing and being unable to chain together her offense at times which can really disrupt the flow of her matches, she's no Apache, Blake or Pola but I like her.


----------



## USAUSA1

I need to get catch up on my lucha. I miss the last two weeks.

I heard Jeff Jarrett not going to be at triplemania(what a waste of a build between La Park and him). I heard TNA pull Abyss and Angle is not coming. I also heard Teddy Hart is missing shows again. Note to Konnan and Roldan, stop bringing in foreigners and TNA guys. Jack Evans is the only one that work out. Save money and build up local wrestlers.(I might tweet Konnan this)


----------



## 777

Matt_Yoda said:


> That's Tera Valkyre one of Lance Storm's students. I'm" surprised you would say that about Lolita, I'm" actually quite the fan of hers. My only real issue with her is her lack of timing and being unable to chain together her offense at times which can really disrupt the flow of her matches, she's no Apache, Blake or Pola but I like her.


She's trying very hard, I can see that, but at this point she hasn't adjusted. Subsequently, her work is consistently the worst match on any card and she's hindering the other competitors who are trying their best to help her through. She looks great and I can see why they want to push her, but her work is waaaaay too sloppy for my liking.

That said, I'd love her to prove me wrong and step her game up.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

I don't know when Mistico II is going to debut but honestly, I'm" just not that big a fan of Dragon Lee so I'm" pretty meh about it either way. From what I read a long time back a lot of Lucha reporters were shitting all over the TNA talent during that Invasion angle. For me personally, I just don't find Jarrett matches exciting in any fashion, no matter who he is with. I got to say that as much as I have been enjoying the Perros Del Mal and El Consejo storylines, I'm" just not as excited for TripleMania this year as I was last year I don't know why.


----------



## USAUSA1

I spoke too soon, JJ will be on the show.

I am excited about Triplemania because they doing this in the new arena. And I want too see the presentation. As well as Mesias vs. Perro, two of my favorite lucha guys from the last 5 years.


----------



## Punkhead

I need some help. There's some wrestler named Miserable, who wrestles in Mexico. Here's his picture:







.

I need as much info on him, as possible. All I could find about him, is that he is a part of Los Colombianos stable and his lucha de apuestas matches.


----------



## USAUSA1

Argos, Semental, Toscano vs Aerostar, Fenix, Sugi San was a fun match but Aerostar, Argenis, Atomic Boy vs Gran Apache, Semental, Tito Santana top that. This is my new favorite lucha match of the year. Everybody was on point.


----------



## Violent By Design

USAUSA1 said:


> Argos, Semental, Toscano vs Aerostar, Fenix, Sugi San was a fun match but Aerostar, Argenis, Atomic Boy vs Gran Apache, Semental, Tito Santana top that. This is my new favorite lucha match of the year. Everybody was on point.


link to said match?


----------



## USAUSA1

Violent By Design said:


> link to said match?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_CXJNjOMf8


----------



## Punkhead

I just watched July 1st AAA. Psicosis/Lider match was really great. I just fast-forwarded most of the other matches. I marked out, when I saw Vampiro. Can anybody tell me, if he's been there or made his return. I didn't watch AAA in a while. I better watched CMLL and IWRG.


----------



## USAUSA1

July 1st episode of AAA was pretty damn fun.


----------



## USAUSA1

TomasThunder619 said:


> I just watched July 1st AAA. Psicosis/Lider match was really great. I just fast-forwarded most of the other matches. I marked out, when I saw Vampiro. Can anybody tell me, if he's been there or made his return. I didn't watch AAA in a while. I better watched CMLL and IWRG.


We post that at the same time LOL.

Edit: He made his annual return. 

I'm downloading 6-22 Fox sports opening match right now, I heard it was a great match.


----------



## YimYac

Wow a new Mistico?

Sucks for Sin Cara if he gets released


----------



## Punkhead

USAUSA1 said:


> We post that at the same time LOL.
> 
> Edit: He made his annual return.
> 
> I'm downloading 6-22 Fox sports opening match right now, I heard it was a great match.


Annual return? Something like Undertaker returning before Wrestlemania each year?


----------



## Punkhead

USAUSA1 said:


> We post that at the same time LOL.
> 
> Edit: He made his annual return.
> 
> I'm downloading 6-22 Fox sports opening match right now, I heard it was a great match.


Annual return? Something like Undertaker returning before Wrestlemania each year?


----------



## USAUSA1

TomasThunder619 said:


> Annual return? Something like Undertaker returning before Wrestlemania each year?


Yes but Undertaker returns are well thought out and actually draws money. Vampiro comes in to get a Triplemania pay day , does a few shows and then leaves. At least the Undertaker gives you great matches. Vampiro sucks


----------



## USAUSA1

Rey Cometa, Starman, Stuka Jr. vs Puma King, Sangre Azteca, Virus is my match of the year for me personally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUZE1cEUYNk

I don't know what's in the water down there but the last 3 weeks have produce three of my favorite lucha matches from this year and 4 in the past two months.


----------



## Punkhead

I watched CMLL 6/30 only on 52MX. Why the hell do they show different matches for like 5 different channels?


----------



## USAUSA1

http://thecubsfan.com/cmll/luchatimes.htm explains it best as possible.


----------



## USAUSA1

IWRG (SUN) 07/08/2012 Arena Naucalpan [The Gladiatores]
1) Chicano, La Chiva, Lily Fighter b Sexy Lady, The Mummy, Tiger Lee
2) Argos & Texano Jr. b Black Terry & ***** Navarro [Guerra de Empresas, quarterfinal]
Battle royal determined seeding. Consejo vs ex-UWA. Argos submitted, Texano snuck in a foul on ***** to pin him, and Argos threw a beer in Terry’s face to set up *****’s winning pin.
3) Cien Caras Jr. & Hijo de Máscara Año 2000 b Damián 666 & X-Fly [Guerra de Empresas, quarterfinal]
FdT vs Capos/IWRG. Bestia ran in to help his team, but it backfired.
4) Silver King & Último Gladiador b Aeroboy & Violento Jack [Guerra de Empresas, quarterfinal]
Maniacos vs DTU
5) Cibernético & La Parka Jr. b Pete Powers & Psicosis [Guerra de Empresas, quarterfinal]
AAA vs Perros (w/Taya). Cibernetico and Parka used fouls to win.
6) Cien Caras Jr. & Hijo de Máscara Año 2000 b Argos & Texano Jr. [Guerra de Empresas, semifinal]
IWRG beat Consejo, despite Texano using the bellrope
7) Cibernético & La Parka Jr. b Silver King & Último Gladiador [Guerra de Empresas, semifinal]
AAA beat Maniacos with a powerbomb and a chokeslam
8) Cibernético & La Parka Jr. b Cien Caras Jr. & Hijo de Máscara Año 2000 [Guerra de Empresas, final]
IWRG lost, of course. Mascara took himself and Cibernetico out with a plancha to th efloor. Cien pinned Parka many times, but Parka blocked a casita and turned it into a submission for the win.

Sounds like a fun show


----------



## USAUSA1

Triplemania XX card
AAA TV (SUN) 08/05/2012 Arena Ciudad de Mexico
1) Fabi Apache, Fenix, Octagoncito, Pimpinela Escarlata vs Dark Dragon, Mini Charly Manson, Sexy Star, Yuriko
2) Octagón, Semental, Texano, Toscano vs La Parka, Monster Clown, Murder Clown, Psycho Clown
3) Electroshock & LA Park vs Jeff Jarrett & TNA wrestler TBA [seconds hair]
Park & Electro represent Joaquin. Jarrett and partner represent Dorian.
4) Chessman & Juventud Guerrera vs Extreme Tiger & Halloween and Joe Lider & Psicosis and Jack Evans & Teddy Hart [relevos suicidas]
losing team meets in the next match with hair or mask (Tiger) on the line. Psicosis will put his hair on the line.
5) Loser A vs Loser B [hair, mask]
6) El Mesías vs el Hijo del Perro Aguayo [AAA HEAVY]
Mesias is the champion
7) Dr. Wagner Jr. vs Máscara Año 2000 Jr. [mask]
Silver King will second his brother, though Hijo de Dr. Wagner Jr. was also at the press conference. Mascara Ano 2000 will second his son.

La Park stock drop for this year Mania. 

Wagner Jr winning. Mesias going to bring his A game, I don't know about Perro. 

No Aerostar


----------



## Punkhead

I think we'll see Mascara Ano 2000 Jr. unmask. Mesias vs Perro sounds exciting. No Mari Apache?


----------



## Matt_Yoda

That line up looks damn good but I'm" disappointed for no Mari Apache, thought they were doing a good job of building up to a grudge match for Mania. Also where the hell is Cibernetico? Can't believe one of my favorite luchas isn't going to be on the show that sucks. HOWEVER, I could see Cibernetico costing Mesias the World Heavyweight Championship as a swerve.

Relevos Suicidas could be an awesome crazy undercard match, and man I'm" pulling for my boy Perro to upset. Wagner Jr and Mascara Ano 2000 could really be great IMO as I've really enjoyed El Consejo run thus far within AAA and the storyline going into the match is simple but effective but with that all said there's no way in hell Wagner Jr is unmasking.


----------



## pgi86

However this new Mistico deal works out I'll give them credit where credit's due. The vignettes for his debut are kinda cool:


----------



## USAUSA1

Triplemania not going to be on Mexico ppv according to http://rderudooficial.blogspot.com/2012/07/conferencia-de-prensa-triplemania-xx.html . That's good, just like old times. 

New Mistico is cool. The fans will love it. The kids don't care if it someone else. However, the booking is the problem in CMLL. They got talent, hell they got over a 100 wrestlers on the roster. 

I've been saying for years, Santo needs to get off his high horse and finish his career in CMLL. Both need each other.


----------



## Punkhead

Does anybody know, what entrance song El Hijo del Santo used somewhere in 2001? It was some popular pop song.


----------



## 777

Some quick thoughts following my most recent watching, mostly trying to catch up leading into Triplemania.

A lot of things true/untrue have been said about Vampiro, but one fact that can't be disputed is that the man is over like a motherfucker in Mexico. 

I'm OK with LA Park taking a backseat at the big show this year, he's been in the ME two consecutive TMs and this year's tag match is important to the overall AAA story arch.

I would very much like to see Ozz come into his own. His character has as much potential as a Chessman, Charley Manson or ElectroShock.


----------



## Yeah1993

TomasThunder619 said:


> Does anybody know, what entrance song El Hijo del Santo used somewhere in 2001? It was some popular pop song.


which match did he use it?


----------



## Punkhead

Yeah1993 said:


> which match did he use it?


This:


----------



## Yeah1993

That's "Blue (Da Ba Dee)" or whatever it is. I think it was Atlantis' theme, actually.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRkpmxFyEGI




.


----------



## Punkhead

Yeah1993 said:


> That's "Blue (Da Ba Dee)" or whatever it is. I think it was Atlantis' theme, actually.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRkpmxFyEGI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Yes, it is ''I'm Blue'' by Eiffel 65. Thanks.


----------



## OAP

Just read and watched the video on superluchas.net that confirms that Kurt Angle will be Jeff Jarret's partner against L.A. Park and Electroshock at Triplemania. Hope L.A. Park and Angle will get a decent amount of time to face off one against one.

(would post the link to the video, but don't have enough posts)


----------



## USAUSA1

edit: Santo needs to come back to arena Mexico for Mistico 2.


----------



## Punkhead

USAUSA1 said:


> edit: Santo needs to come back to arena Mexico for Mistico 2.


That would be so awesome. I would really love to see it happen.


----------



## Punkhead

Seriously, when will the New Mistico debut


----------



## 777

AAA continues to kick my ass week after week. The initial lineup for Triplemania XX looks weak on paper but the promotion and television leading up to the big event has got me stoked for the show and matches. They continue to be possibly my most consistently favorite promotion even over the big dogs like WWE, TNA and NJPW.

What role will Cibernetico play? Heel turn?
Loving the inclusion of Angle instead of Abyss in the tag/cabellera match.
The four corner tag and off-shoot singles feuds could provide some show stealing moments.
I hope Consejo retain.

Here's me, pimpin Triplemania. :mark:


----------



## Punkhead

Wait. Kurt Angle in a caballera match? He's bald.


----------



## 777

TomasThunder619 said:


> Wait. Kurt Angle in a caballera match? He's bald.


Park & Electro Shock vs JJ & Angle with both Joaquin and Dorian Roldon's respective cabellera's on the line.


----------



## Punkhead

777 said:


> Park & Electro Shock vs JJ & Angle with both Joaquin and Dorian Roldon's respective cabellera's on the line.


That clears it up. I don't watch a lot of AAA. More of CMLL.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

I got agree, I wasn't initially excited for TripleMania this year, but Konnan shut me up mighty quick. As I said earlier I'm" super disappointed my boy Cibernetico ain't on the card but man if Perro takes home the gold and/or Cibernetico turns on Mesias, I'll :mark: like a motherfucker.

I've really have been enjoying the El Consejo storyline(s) as well. Wagner Jr/Ano 2000 Jr has the potential to be excellent.


----------



## 777

I fully expect juice in the three big contests.
Ano/Wagner will likely be more mat based, while Perro/Mesias will probably be spot heavy with plenty of 'hardcore' action. Hope Hijo del Wagner and Ano Sr. play roles. There's a lot of potential sub-plot/undercard movement at their disposal as well, should be great.

Still crossing my fingers for a Mari/Fabi confrontation.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

I for the life of me can't understand why they didn't book Fabi/Mari for this show, especially after such great buildup. I think we'll at least get a confrontation at TripleMania XX, then have a match at AAA's next big show (not sure if they'll hold Verano de Escandalo this year).


----------



## Yeah1993

How many matches did L.A. Park have in 2010 with AAA? Was it only the two Parka matches and the one with el Mesias?


----------



## USAUSA1

Can't wait to see the Devil Rockers


----------



## Punkhead

Yeah1993 said:


> How many matches did L.A. Park have in 2010 with AAA? Was it only the two Parka matches and the one with el Mesias?


No. He had a lot of matches.


----------



## Yeah1993

Thanks, that's good to hear. Are they online?


----------



## Punkhead

Yeah1993 said:


> Thanks, that's good to hear. Are they online?


They should be on Youtube. User called WarriorsX2000 has some.


----------



## Yeah1993

Yeah figured he or tvluchadelpasado might be the way to go. Thanks again.


----------



## Punkhead

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah figured he or tvluchadelpasado might be the way to go. Thanks again.


Speaking of lucha Youtube channels, LuchaLibreDeMexico is an awesome one. They upload all new AAA and CMLL shows, plus many Mexican indies.


----------



## Yeah1993

Yeah, that guy's gone nuts recently with some old lucha. aztecpride004 is awesome as well; guy's putting up a lot of Satanico which is especially making me happy.


----------



## Punkhead

RobViper93 has tons of highlights from various old and new shows. His videos are cool. I especially enjoy old AAA ones.


----------



## Punkhead

Mistico II finally made his debut! A few days ago on August 3rd. Does anybody have the video?


----------



## pgi86

TomasThunder619 said:


> Mistico II finally made his debut! A few days ago on August 3rd. Does anybody have the video?


It hasn't aired on TV yet but here's handheld footage of the full match:





^ the match starts after 3:00





The same user has footage of 4 more matches from the same show. Good stuff.


----------



## USAUSA1

I don't know why but I kind of lost interest in Triplemania in the past few weeks.


----------



## USAUSA1

Triplemania drew 21,000 fans, is that the biggest non WWE crowd of the year? I know New Japan January 4th show probably drew more but that's it.


----------



## Punkhead

USAUSA1 said:


> Triplemania drew 21,000 fans, is that the biggest non WWE crowd of the year? I know New Japan January 4th show probably drew more but that's it.


http://wrestlingdata.com/index.php?befehl=zuschauer&land=0&jahrzehnt=201&jahr=2012

It was second biggest non-WWE crowd this year. How could Lucha Libre Internacional draw 30 000?


----------



## USAUSA1

That list looks a little funny.

1. CMLL is all over that list and the majority of CMLL shows I've seen has been empty arenas.

2. At first I thought it was a WWC show but then it said Mexico. This is the only site where you can find info on this event. I say this is fake until prove otherwise. Plus, LLI last year was 1995

3. New Japan dome show drew between 26,000-43,000 depends on who you talk to and they not on the list.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Yeah admittedly I'm" a bit skeptical on that list as well. I always loathe trying to find NJPW's Dome Show numbers because 30 different people will give you 30 different answers and I would find it hard to believe that CMLL has pulling in numbers. Regardless, good to see that TripleMania pulled such a strong turnout this year.


----------



## USAUSA1

Oh, this show did happen and it was at a festival. I don't know if that really count. http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/?p=15020
AAA Nayarit (TUE) 03/27 Feria Nayarit, Nayarit, Mexico
1) Aaron Aguilera & Nicho el Millionario b Lizmark Jr. & Súper Nova
2) Joe Lider b Alex Koslov, Brian Kendrick
3) Billy Gunn & Héctor Garza b Chuck Palumbo & Johnny Stamboli
4) Lolita & Shelly Martínez b Lucky O’Shea & Sexy Star
5) Chris Masters, El Mesías, Shelton Benjamin b Carlito, La Parka, Luke Gallows

Recent Attendances (as reported by the WON)
08/03 CMLL (Mistico debut): 12, 600
08/04 CMLL in Neza (Mistico debut): 1,100 
08/05 AAA (TripleMania): 21,000
08/05 CMLL (Tiffany vs Marcela): 3,300
08/06 CMLL in Leon (Mistico debut): “less than half a house” (capacity is 5,240) 

Pretty good numbers for CMLL. Mistico II is actually a draw. Let's see if he can keep it up.

I think Triplemania is airing either next weekend or the first week of September.


----------



## Punkhead

Triplemania will most likely air this and next sunday.


----------



## USAUSA1

Cubs got a different schedule but we never know what they air. http://thecubsfan.com/cmll/luchatimes.htm 

I want too see the Devil Rockers group debut.


----------



## Punkhead

Who are they?


----------



## USAUSA1

Some new group that debuted at the last tapings.

Picture of them: http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5905/7661321110dede984f92z.jpg does these guys look familiar.


----------



## Punkhead

The right one may be Rockero del Diablo, but I may be wrong. Probably, just some new guys.


----------



## USAUSA1

It's rare for us to get new gimmicks nowadays because Konnan and crew is a big believer in real life type gimmicks.


----------



## Punkhead

Yeah, I wish AAA start doing what they did in mid-90. Producing millions of crazy gimmicks, that are at least entertaining.


----------



## Punkhead

TheCubsFan suggests, that one of them is Semental.

And their name is Inferno Rockers.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

-Most probably already know this but TripleMania XX will be released in America in November, courtesy of Luchashop.com. Pretty damn awesome and they have a guaranteed buy from me.

-It's a good sign that Mistico is pulling in crowds, CMLL should do their damnest to capitalize on that momentum and start building some rudos to compliment him. A good string of performances can definitely pull up CMLL numbers they can't mess this up.

-Got to say I'm" surprised that Garza is out of PdM, did not see that one coming and this may make for a awesome feud if they go for PdM vs. Garza and if for nothing else, I got my Cibernetico appearance :lol Not surprised that Wagner got the W against 2000 Jr., but his brother turning rudos was a pleasant surprise I wonder where they're going to go with that storyline now.

-Have to check out WNC so I can see Hijo del Pantera, working with a guy like Ohara I'm" sure they had to put on some good matches if they got televised. I also need to catch up on recent IWRG stuff, I haven't followed them in so long so I'll have to scout for whatever recent stuff I can dig up.


----------



## Punkhead

Does anybody know, if Los Psycho Circus are still teaming as a trio? Psycho Clown seems to be wrestling separately with other teams.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

They still are to my knowledge. They're still working trios in AAA that's for sure.


----------



## Punkhead

What exactly is AAA Quien Pinta Para La Corona? Is it a title or a tournament? Can anybody explain, please?

EDIT: I already know. TheCubsFan explained it on LuchaWiki.


----------



## The Great Shinu

I haven't seen Triple A for a couple of years but but is pretty good I need to keep up with it :/


----------



## OAP

L.A. Park with #19 on the PWI 500 (Y)


----------



## Rah

*Dinastía, Mascarita Dorada, Octagoncito vs Mini Charly Manson, Mini Histeria, Mini Psicosis
AAA on Televisa (Regional): 2012-08-12 *





Right, so I haven't followed Lucha religiously since the epic Casas/Panther match (for shame, I know) but something about this caught my eye. It could possibly be due to myself being an over-zealous Mascarita fan but I'll rather side with an explanation that keeps my fanboyism secret and say it's because of Cubsfan that I watched this.

Now I can't go out on record, like he did, and say "not only is this one of the best minis matches but also one of the best trios matches all year" due to my inexperience with Lucha as of late but I cannot overstate how great the work here is. 

On the one hand you have an excellent rudo dynamic peppering the majority of the match with just the right amount of técnico brilliance to help push the feud over. As always, Mascarita bumped like a Mexican Dolph Ziggler in this match due to the size concession he gives the other minis. The way he's manhandled and just ragdolls around from simple moves is just lolworthy. Dinastía, however, once again stole the spotlight despite still being so young. His plethora of new yet crazy moves never seems to end.

If you're going to watch any lucha (especially any minis action) this year, I cannot see why this shouldn't be one of your first go-to's. Almost as balls-crazy and immersive as anything else this year. It's just how a minis match should be.
*Rating:* 4.25-


----------



## Rah

Anyone have a link to *Ray Gonzalez vs Lightning (WWC 8/25/12)* by any chance?


----------



## Yeah1993

Rah said:


> Anyone have a link to *Ray Gonzalez vs Lightning (WWC 8/25/12)* by any chance?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQXdxr2-mNo&feature=player_embedded

Starts here, I think.


----------



## Rah

Hey, look, it's Adam Leavine!

Thanks.


----------



## Violent By Design

What are your guys favorite LA Park matches?


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Park/Messias from last year is my working match of the decade, so that. Their match from 2010 is generally considered even better. I'm not sure I've even watched that yet, though. 

The 6/18/95 Parka/Rey/Santo/Octagon v Panther/Pentagon/Fuerza(aka GOAT)/Psicosis match from AAA is awesome as well, and Parka's great in it. 

Parka/Santo bloodbath from Monterrey rules hard.

Someone needs to make a Parka comp, actually.


----------



## Punkhead

Terrible/Rush feud seems to be over. How did it end?


----------



## pgi86

TomasThunder619 said:


> Terrible/Rush feud seems to be over. How did it end?


It's not over. They're facing each other in the main event of the CMLL anniversary show on September 14th (CMLL's biggest annual event). The stipulation? Hair vs. hair!


----------



## Punkhead

Awesome! I hope Rush is winning this. I wouldn't like to see bald Rush mostly because he's my favourite luchador (and just imagine him bald :lmao).


----------



## Rah

La Park's match from AAA TripleMania II - B was pretty great, too. It was an 8-man tag if I remember right.










Try get your hands on the entire show, the last three matches are worth the price alone.

On a completely random note I was randomly sifting through minis matches and noticed that Mascarita Sagrada was signed to WWE in 2006. The fuck?


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> On a completely random note I was randomly sifting through minis matches and noticed that Mascarita Sagrada was signed to WWE in 2006. The fuck?


Oh yeah. In 2006 WWE had 'juniors division'. It consisted of various Mexican minis and for some reason Super Porky (Brazo de Plata). It didn't last long.


----------



## 777

Super Porky is fuckin' awesome. Love that guy.


----------



## Rah

So WWE have had both Taka Michinoku and Mascarita Sangrada in their grasp and both times misused them.

My inner fan wishes to do unspeakable evil upon WWE booking.


----------



## smitlick

They had a Minis division but Johnny L went and signed the wrong guys or something stupid.


----------



## Rah

*La Sombra Vs Averno (18/08/2012)*





Not the lucha MotY that Luchaworld purports it to be but a drat fine match, all the same. It's really telling of how great these two luchadors are that they can go out there, hammer in a match without truly breaking a sweat nor their typical match-formula and still come out with a top-tier match that's head and shoulders above most of the lucha currently going.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Finally got around to watching TripleMania XX, overall I thought it was a very good show with its fair share of solid matches. Let me start by saying that I hope LA Park never wears that outfit again, the undercard was easy to sit through the production was damn good and I really liked Lider/Psicosis, probably more than others. The AAA title match was chaotic fun, but the finish was kind of weak. Wagner Jr./Ano 2000 Jr. was a damn fine main event that was drama filled as one would expect. It's nuts how over Wagner Jr. is.
_________________

I know it was reported a couple of days ago but CMLL is back at their antics again with the whole Sarita deal, people give flack for WWE controlling their talent but CMLL can get pretty low when it comes to controlling their contracted talent as well. Unless they work something out, Dark Angel may be primarily stationed in Japan for the foreseeable future.
___________________

*From Josh Boutwell of Wrestleview.com

CMLL 09/14 "79th Anniversary Show" Arena Mexico Lineup
1) Dalis la Caribena, Goya Kong, & Marcela vs. La Amapola, Princesa Blanca, & Tiffany 
2) Delta, Stuka Jr., & Valiente vs. Ephesto, Mephisto, & Niebla Roja 
3) La Sombra, Angel de Oro, & Titan vs. Shigeo Okumura, Namajague, & Taichi 
4) Mask vs. Mask Match: Rey Cometa vs. Puma King 
5) Atlantis, Mistico II, & Prince Devitt vs. Ultimo Guerrero, ***** Casas, & Dragon Rojo Jr.
6) Hair vs. Hair Match: Rush vs. El Terrible 
* NOTES *
- Surprisingly nothing major on the Anniversary Show but there could be some great matches on there especially with the Mask Match.

Have to agree, nothing really stands out as OMG must see however you have a solid line up of matches that has the potential to deliver big time.
_____________________

AAA 09/16 TV Taping Lineup
1) Dinastia & Mascarita Dorada vs. Mini Charly Manson & Mini Histeria 
2) Cuervo & Fabi Apache vs. Gran Apache & Mari Apache 
3) El Alebrije, Fenix, & Samurai del Sol vs. Devil Rocker, Machine Rocker, & Soul Rocker 
4) Cibernetico, Hector Garza, & Ozz vs. Chessman, Halloween, & Psicosis 
5) Dr. Wagner Jr., Jack Evans, & Electroshock vs. Mascara Ano 2000 Jr., Silver Kain, & Teddy Hart

So fucking happy once I heard that Samuray del Sol would be working for AAA with a potential push in mind. Words can't describe my markdom for him, I know that they're thinking about changing his gimmick but I actually hope they don't but oh well he'll make anything work. The TV tapings look fun as hell with some solid TV matchups.


----------



## Punkhead

Hair vs Hair Rush vs Terrible :mark::mark::mark:


----------



## mex_kllr_13

Yeah It will be great tomorrow CMLL show i will be there so I can upload pics and tell you my thoughts of the whole show


----------



## Punkhead

mex_kllr_13 said:


> Yeah It will be great tomorrow CMLL show i will be there so I can upload pics and tell you my thoughts of the whole show


Would be great.


----------



## Rah

So, I take it I'm the only one more excited for Rey Cometa vs Puma King than Terrible?

I know the main _could_ pull off something truly epic but the room for failure seems awfully high going on their previous encounters.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Rah said:


> So, I take it I'm the only one more excited for Rey Cometa vs Puma King than Terrible?
> 
> I know the main _could_ pull off something truly epic but the room for failure seems awfully high going on their previous encounters.


You're not alone actually, I'm" definitely looking forward to Cometa/King as I think they may very well steal the show, talked with some friends about it and I'm" even more excited for that match. I think Rush/Terrible will put on a really good match though (I'm" calling ***1/2 - ***3/4 tops) I doubt it'll match the great drama and atmosphere of Wagner Jr./Ano 2000 Jr. but it'll get up there. Never been the biggest Rush fan, but I really like Terrible so yeah. Not to mention, they got a consistent card behind even them if they don't hit expectations to round out the show quality (if the undercard matches deliver that is).
____________________________
EDIT:
Well since no one else posted the results of the Anniversary Show I'll do the part:



****79th Anniversary Show*** courtesy of TheCubsFan*

*1) Dalis la Caribeña, Goya Kong, Marcela b Amapola, Princesa Blanca, Tiffany*

**Tecnicas took 1/2. Marcela pinned Tiffany with Dalis helping Marcela with leverage. Tiffany challenged Marcela to a trios rematch next week, and Marcela accepted.

*2) Ephesto, Mephisto, Niebla Roja b Delta, Stuka Jr., Valiente*

**Rudos took 1/3. In the third, Stuka pinned Ephesto, but the rudos beat Stuka, and then Mephisto defeated Delta for the win.

*3) Ángel de Oro, La Sombra, Titán b Namajague, Shigeo Okumura, Taichi*

**Tecnicos took 1/3, Sombra beating Taichi in the third fall.

*4) Puma King b Rey Cometa [mask]*

**Seconds were Tiger & Espiritu *****. Rey Cometa dived off the stage on Puma with a tornillo before the bell. Puma still pulled out the fall with a leg hold in 1:16. Cometa went into the barricade again in the second fall, but came back to win with the 450 splash in 4:26. Rey Cometa is Mario Alberto González, 29 years old, 13 years a wrestler, from Quereraro. Both gave each other credit for their effort after the match, and Puma thanked the very supportive crowd.

*5) Dragón Rojo Jr., ***** Casas, Último Guerrero b Atlantis, Mistico, Prince Devitt*

**Rudos took 1/3, Dragon Rojo beatting Devitt each time and setting up a title match between the two.

*6) Rush b Terrible [hair]*

**Seconds were Toro Blanco for Rush and Rey Bucanero and Comandante for Terrible. Terrible won the first and Rush took the second in usual quick falls. Both bled were said to have bleed; Rush did so from the mouth, and Terrible’s wound is not visible in the pictures (maybe a slight bit on his forehead.) Much less than Volador/Niebla. Rush finally won with the martillo *****. Fans sided with Terrible even after the match, upsetting Rush. Mistico, out to celebrate, settled down his brother, but the entire family was pelted with drinks until they left. Terrible was also sent to the back to calm down the crowd, but returned to get his hair cut (doing some himself) and thanked the fans. In the locker room, Rush said he didn’t care about the boos and they just made him stronger, while Terrible said he didn’t lose tonight, but just won more fans and it’s not over with Rush.

**Don’t have an attendance number, just some guesses. I guessed 12,000 looking at the pictures around middle of the show. People who were there are saying 80%, which would put it at 14,000. There was said to be some sections that did not fill up (the blue section on the floor.) It was a not a sell out, and CMLL thought they could get one out of this show.
______________________


The overall results of the show doesn't surprise me as I pretty much guessed most of them right though I picked Terrible because I don't like Rush however I :lol at Rush and Co getting booed yet again, even worse they bring out Mistico II with him. Sucks that Terrible lost but like he said it just made him even more popular. Puma/Rey seemed to be damn short if I'm" reading that right which is disappointing. Happy that my boy Rojo is getting a shot at Devitt as Los Guerreros del Infierno continues to be one of my bright spots about CMLL and it should be a great match.


----------



## ShiftyLWO

Does anyone know where i can watch AAA weekly tv online?


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Sorry for the late reply dude, but you could probably just search around YouTube as their are a couple of lucha providers (my main is TheCubsfan). If not there you can go to dailymotion but I'm" not sure if Hellburn still uploads lucha anymore.


----------



## Punkhead

LuchaLibreDeMexico on YouTube is uploading AAA, CMLL and various Mexican indy shows regulary.


----------



## Rah

I wish there were single part uploaders on Youtube. There are many for American feds but none for Latino wrestling. A pedantic gripe, but I rather skip entire shows because of it.


----------



## 777

Finally got around to watching Rush vs Terrible Cabellera match from the anniversary show. ThomasThunder619, I think I may be officially sold on Rush. Dude can do it all, and the heat...holy shit, wrestling as a technico at that. Still not as good as Casas/Panther but that's understandable, better than Black Warrior/Rey Escopion.


----------



## Boss P

Rah said:


> I wish there were single part uploaders on Youtube. There are many for American feds but none for Latino wrestling. A pedantic gripe, but I rather skip entire shows because of it.


Maybe LuchaLibreUSA?


----------



## Punkhead

777 said:


> Finally got around to watching Rush vs Terrible Cabellera match from the anniversary show. ThomasThunder619, I think I may be officially sold on Rush. Dude can do it all, and the heat...holy shit, wrestling as a technico at that. Still not as good as Casas/Panther but that's understandable, better than Black Warrior/Rey Escopion.


Rush may as well be the most charismatic luchador ever. But he's still young. Give him time and one day he'll be a legend.


----------



## Violent By Design

New Blood said:


> ****** Casas/El Dandy/Hector Garza vs. El Hijo del Santo/Scorpio Jr./Bestia Salvaje [CMLL 11/29/96]*
> Coming a week after Santito's shocking heel turn, comes this amazing and bloody brawl. This has to be seen to be believed. How this wasn't on DVDVR's Top 20 Lucha matches of the 90s yet a ton of AAA matches were is beyond me.
> "***** CASAS/DANDY/HECTOR GARZA vs. HIJO DEL SANTO/SCORPIO JR/BESTIA SALVAJE - EMLL 11/96
> (POGO PETE)
> The grudge match coming off Santito's unthinkable rudo turn the previous week, and the tecnicos are out for his blood. This is the Brawl With It All - ungodly heat (when Santo hits the ring and mockingly blows kisses to the crowd, even the piss-poor Televisa audio mix can't hide the fact that these folks would like nothing better than to see his ass on a platter), insane violence (Santo rips a set of ringside chairs off its moorings so he can level a bloodied Dandy with them) and perhaps the ultimate death-for-your-pleasure highspot (Garza tries a Shooting Star Press to the floor and accidentally invents the German Air Show Senton in the process). Dr. Morales marks out about a half-dozen times, the crowd is at a froth the whole time, Bestia is in tears at the end and ***** LAUGHS IN HIS FACE like a maniac. Unbelievably intense and dramatic. American bookers should be strapped in their chairs and forced to watch this Clockwork Orange-style to see how to book revenge matches."
> 
> This sets up the classic El Hijo del Santo vs. ***** Casas vs. El Dandy the next month and then the mask vs. hair match a year later between Santo and Casas.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0D43mxBlFg
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfW4mvHJ5HY&feature=related
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVhYYiDQj00&feature=related


God damn, this match has been removed. I really want to rewatch this one, I remember it being one of my favorite trio matches. Anyone got it?


----------



## USAUSA1

Boss P said:


> Maybe LuchaLibreUSA?


You will never get a true lucha libre promotion in the US. The closest one might be the LuchaVaVoom shows if they even still do them shows.


----------



## Yeah1993

Does/did ANY LuchaVaVoom get taped to be seen?


----------



## Punkhead

USAUSA1 said:


> You will never get a true lucha libre promotion in the US. The closest one might be the LuchaVaVoom shows if they even still do them shows.


Lucha Xtreme is second closest. They're in California and have many local luchadors and luchadors from Mexico.


----------



## Punkhead

Just a few news from TheCubsFan.



> 1. AAA’s 3rd major show of the year, Heroes Inmortales VI, was a busy day for Halloween. Halloween subbed in the opener and won the mixed tag title with Mari Apache (but has yet to win Mari’s heart), then lost the main event and his hair in a domed cage match. Other outcomes intended to build to future shows include Jeff Jarrett humiliating LA Park, Texano winning Copa Antiono Pena over Mesias via foul, and Mini Charly Manson defeating Mascarita Dorada via foul. Joe Lider & Vampiro picked up the tag titles match over Abyss & Chessman in the other title change of the show. Building was said to be 75% full at bargain prices.
> AAA’s first Fusion taping took place. The show was more notable for being a TVC Deportes and having a totally different group of sponsors than the main show than any of the results. A new Infierno Rocker, Uro Rocker, debuted in the undercard. Texano and Mesias ran in each other’s matches. This show debut on TV tonight.
> AAA’s Arena Naucalpan taping took place in front of a loud crowd and set up matches for both Heroes Inmortales and the following week’s IWRG show, though both of those events have taken place before this taping has actually aired. This was the start of the Texano/Mesias feud, which appears destined to be the title match at Guerra de Titanes.
> Mercurio and Fantasy will meet in a mask match this Sunday. Diamante Azul and Volador are in the main event, after they had issues in last week’s match.
> Dragon Rojo defeated Prince Devitt to become double middleweight champion. Opinions of the match widly varied.
> Rayo de Jalisco Jr. took the money and didn’t run, no-showing a heavily promoted match in Arena Coliseo Monterrey. The promoters and opponent Blue Demon Jr. and buried him.
> 
> Other stories
> After touring Japan for over a month and some CMLL weirdness, Dark Angel appears to be back in her home promotion without any interruption
> Ultimo Guerrero continues to have issues with now former partners Rey Escorpion and Dragon Rojo
> In IWRG, Comando Elite member Ryan won the IWRG Welterweight Championship, and Angel won the IWRG Middleweight Championship for a cage match.
> Magnus returned to CMLL, just before the second season of El Luchador debuts. He had been indefinitely suspended at the end of the first season.
> Another, totally separate reality show, “En Busca de un Idolo”, debuted on Fox Sports + in Mexico. This one follows the tournament of the same name from earlier this year, and seems to be explaining things which weren’t all that clear at the time. It would be a great help to the promotion, if it wasn’t on an obscure channel (which CMLL couldn’t even correctly identify) and airing months after the matches took place.
> Volador finally beat Prince Devitt when it didn’t matter.
> Perros del Mal ran a show, which was more notable for who didn’t wrestle (Hector Garza, mystery illiness), then anything that actually happened.
> Mistico won his first title, the Gimansio Nuevo Leon based “Lucha Libre Azteca Championship”. It’s a meaningless title that’s been ignored by CMLL so far.
> Super Muneco lost his hair in a cage match to Super Muneco.
> AYM advertised a FULL (Tinieblas Jr.) taping with CMLL wrestlers as “Lucha Libre AAA”. It’s a wonder they can manage to keep the channel on air.
> People keeping their titles: Virus, Cien Caras Jr., Mil Mascaras (!)
> Mask maker Kalery Avlador passed away.


----------



## 777

Rush has been looking amazing in this year's G1 Climax series. Particularly fond of his match with Shinsuke.


----------



## Cactus

I'm currently trying to get myself to watch more lucha and I think RudoReels' Lucha Sampler is the obvious place to start.

http://rudoreels.com/store/downloads/rudoreels-com-lucha-sampler-download.html - For anyone who wants said download. 

*Rey Mysterio Jr, Super Calo, & Winners vs Psicosis, Heavy Metal, & Picudo - AAA 1/29/1993*
Heavy Metal was great in this. He cuts off the ring and stops the babyface from making the tag. Mysterio was Mysterio and you get what you always would out of him here. I did find myself somewhat bored in the first 10-15 minutes and the lucha matwork still hasn't full grown on me yet. I'm not sure what I don't like about it, but I think my distaste for it is slowly fading away. Anyways, the match gets going in the final 10 minutes and it's good stuff. I love the dive exchanges at the end of each fall and it never looked too coo-operated or anything.

*La Parka vs Cibernetico - Mask vs Mask - AAA TripleMania XII 6/20/2004*
What in the actual fuck was this? You get about 5 minutes of abysmal in-ring brawling before a huge clusterfuck ensures. A bunch of heels run down to attack La Parka before some faces come to the save and they all wind up in the street in a high-speed chase before one bastard ends up driving into the ringside arena on a motorcycle. Add in some fireball spots and that sums up this carnage. Makes '98 WWF look like World of Sport in comparison. Shit wrestling, but quite fun to sit through.


----------



## DaiKaiju

Cactus said:


> *La Parka vs Cibernetico - Mask vs Mask - AAA TripleMania XII 6/20/2004*
> What in the actual fuck was this? You get about 5 minutes of abysmal in-ring brawling before a huge clusterfuck ensures. A bunch of heels run down to attack La Parka before some faces come to the save and they all wind up in the street in a high-speed chase before one bastard ends up driving into the ringside arena on a motorcycle. Add in some fireball spots and that sums up this carnage. Makes '98 WWF look like World of Sport in comparison. Shit wrestling, but quite fun to sit through.


Similar to Angel/Jarrett vs. LA Park/Electroshock. Does AAA just like doing this with the PPV Main Events?


----------



## 777

DaiKaiju said:


> Similar to Angel/Jarrett vs. LA Park/Electroshock. Does AAA just like doing this with the PPV Main Events?


A) Angle/Jarrett vs Park/Shock was not the Main Event of Triplemania 20. 

B) Yes, they do. But they usually offset a lot of the madness and story exposition with some decent lucha libre. This reviewed match was a particular clusterfuck though.


----------



## DaiKaiju

777 said:


> A) Angle/Jarrett vs Park/Shock was not the Main Event of Triplemania 20.
> 
> B) Yes, they do. But they usually offset a lot of the madness and story exposition with some decent lucha libre. This reviewed match was a particular clusterfuck though.


Good to know I haven't seen the full Triplemania event then. Have to keep this in mind for future AAA events. Thanks


----------



## Punkhead

Just wondering, who are the best lucha commentators currently? And who are your favorite?


----------



## Bestia 666

What is up with DTU uploading only the first episode?



TomasThunder619 said:


> Just wondering, who are the best lucha commentators currently? And who are your favorite?


Jokingly, the guy in CMLL who loves comments on the ring girls walking down the ramp with the signs. I love how he asks them to turn around for him because he knows that's their routine yet still thanks them.


----------



## Pat9010

Hey guys, I'm trying to get back into current lucha, do you have any suggestions on how to do so? Maybe a news website or a youtube channel to subscribe to. I have Galavision so i do get the weekly CMLL show. Also, does Lucha Libre USA still exist?


----------



## Punkhead

Pat9010 said:


> Hey guys, I'm trying to get back into current lucha, do you have any suggestions on how to do so? Maybe a news website or a youtube channel to subscribe to. I have Galavision so i do get the weekly CMLL show. Also, does Lucha Libre USA still exist?


thecubsfan.com/cmll is an awesome lucha website. LuchaLibreDeMexico uploads all the newest CMLL, AAA and many more shows on Youtube. I have no idea what's going on with LLUSA. They've done 2 shows this year and I don't know if they aired.


----------



## Yeah1993

Yeah, head to youtube and subscribe to LuchaLibreDeMexico, thecubsan, WarriorsX2000 and WarriorsX2000PPV. Might want to keep checking thehcubsfan's dailymotion page as well.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Billy, Fabi, Parkita & Escarlata vs. Cassandro, Gran, M-Chessman & Tiffany (5/15/06)- ****+

Mistico vs. Averno (1/5/07)- ****3/4

Tiger, Evans & Romero vs. Koslov, Daniels & Lider (4/30/10)- ****

Blue Panther vs. ***** Casas (3/10/2012)- ****1/4


----------



## New Blood

It's nice to see that the thread I created is still going strong even after I've all but left this board. Thankfully Lucha has been gaining a little more traction here then previous.

For anyone really interested in trying to understand what lucha's about, check out this thread from Pro Wrestling Only. There are some lucha experts that explain what Apuestas matches are, how trios matches work, etc.
http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?showtopic=15582


----------



## cablegeddon

Dude I'm watching some Mistico/Sin Cara matches from 2005 and it looks SSSLLLOOOWWW compared to the new Mistico. Is there something here that I'm missing or is the new Mistico much more talented? Maybe he has better wrestlers to work with too compared to the other guy?


----------



## Yeah1993

I've only seen Mistico look good like twice. From the stuff I've seen he's overrated as hell and kinda frequently rubbish.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Dragon Lee better than Mistico? Best laugh I've had all day. Mistico's matches with Averno, Wagner Jr. and Ultimo Guerrero in addition to his trios are among the best in modern lucha matches for my money, he more than earned his rep. If Mistico II can actually get through a match without fucking up, then maybe I'll give him the time of day. Just because you're "fast" doesn't make you a good or better worker.


----------



## Kid Kamikaze10

Cactus said:


> *La Parka vs Cibernetico - Mask vs Mask - AAA TripleMania XII 6/20/2004*
> What in the actual fuck was this? You get about 5 minutes of abysmal in-ring brawling before a huge clusterfuck ensures. A bunch of heels run down to attack La Parka before some faces come to the save and they all wind up in the street in a high-speed chase before one bastard ends up driving into the ringside arena on a motorcycle. Add in some fireball spots and that sums up this carnage. Makes '98 WWF look like World of Sport in comparison. Shit wrestling, but quite fun to sit through.


I definitely need to see this match. This sounds HILARIOUS.


----------



## Manu_Styles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4Dkq26Tv8c&feature=player_embedded#!

Samurai Del Sol is training with Octagon, that´s a pretty big deal for him


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Yep, already knew about this from MLW some months back, they're setting Del Sol up to take over for Octagon. Very proud of him and excited for what this experience will do for his career.


----------



## ROHWashingtonstate

That's cool.. I always love to see North American talent head overseas. Look at how much people like Benoit Malenko Jericho Guerrero contributed to wrestling in their home country after coming home. Even know I have seen a HUGE improvement in the Bravados since their return.


----------



## DaiKaiju

Cactus said:


> I'm currently trying to get myself to watch more lucha and I think RudoReels' Lucha Sampler is the obvious place to start.
> 
> http://rudoreels.com/store/downloads/rudoreels-com-lucha-sampler-download.html - For anyone who wants said download.


They're doing a Black Friday sale til December 4th. I'm suddenly so overwhelmed.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Been a while so I'll give my thoughts on some recent happenings.

***Courtesy of Josh Boutwell from lucha weekly:



> Mistico II Suffers Injury
> At this week's Arena Puebla event Mistico II botched a Shooting Star Press and injured his shoulder. The talk now is that he will be out for about 2 months. CMLL has yet to address the injury.


:no: the kid just can't catch a break, his recklessness caught up with him quicker than I expected. Wish him a healthy recovery regardless.



> Extreme Tiger Leaves AAA
> Rumors for weeks have speculated that AAA's Extreme Tiger has left the promotion. Now Tiger has shown up on the lineups for a few upcoming independent promotions that have NO AAA ties indicating Tiger has left. Wrestling Observer confirmed the rumor as true this week as well. Tiger spoke to MedioTiempo late in the week and also confirmed that he has left AAA. He said that he wasn't looking to join another big company (CMLL) right now and will remain independent. He also specifically mentioned wanted to break out in the U.S. as well as working in Japan.


I'd love to see my boy E-Tiger in DragonGate USA should he decide to go that route. If he can still go like he did in 09-11, he'd be a beast.

Last but certainly not least, it's official folks...



> Octagon came out and talked about La Parka Jr. helping him out at TripleMania and then talked about training Samuray del Sol. El Consejo ran out and jumped Octagon, but Samuray del Sol ran in and made the save. *Octagon then pulled out a new Octagon Jr. mask and put it on him signifying del Sol's turn to Octagon Jr.*


:mark: :mark: :mark: So happy for Del Sol, what an honor for him.


----------



## sXeMope

Random question: Anyone know this girls name? really like her look, was curious to who she was to watch some matches

http://i48.tinypic.com/2qunjo0.jpg


----------



## Matt_Yoda

sXeMope said:


> Random question: Anyone know this girls name? really like her look, was curious to who she was to watch some matches
> 
> http://i48.tinypic.com/2qunjo0.jpg


That lady is Ludark Shaitan, she wrestles on the indy scene in Mexico. Most of her stuff that I've seen has been Sexy Star tags and other stuff in ERLL, XMW and Empress. I think she has a YouTube page if I remember.
___________________________

*Dragon Gate Kobe World Festival 2012 Review (7/22/2012):
Amazing show which is par the course for DG’s biggest show of the year. Solid first half followed by a mindfucking second half, this show was just so much fun and time flew by; Dragon Gate at its finest. ***My Dragon Gate Year In review should be up as soon as I get the time to finish.*

Ness, S-Shisa, Shisa Boy & Arai vs. Saito, Horiguchi, Kanda & Tanisaki- ***
Chihiro Tominaga & Super Shenlong III vs. Rich Swann & EITA- **1/2
Atsushi Onita & Stalker Ichikawa vs. Kzy & Mondai Ryu- ***
Dragon Kid vs. Ricochet- ****1/4
Jimmy Susumu & Jimmy Kagetora vs. Shingo Takagi & YAMATO- ****
Doi, Yoshino & PAC vs. Hulk, Kong & NTZ vs. Mochizuki, Fuiji & Gamma- ***3/4
CIMA vs. Akira Tozawa- ****3/4-*****


----------



## Punkhead

Since my thread got buried with no replies, I'm gonna ask it here. Does anybody know any good lucha libre documentaries in english? And another question: Has anobody heard any news on any big apuesta matches to look forward to?


----------



## Yeah1993

Dr. Cerebro and Cerebro ***** have a hair match coming. That could be great.


----------



## Punkhead

RIP Emilio Charles Jr.


----------



## 777

God bless. He'll be missed.


----------



## Yeah1993

He was 56. Man that sucks.


----------



## Concrete

I think I may have a problem. I watched the 4/18/97 match and I wasn't a MASSIVE fan. I don't know if I was missing some context besides Casas and Santo. I thought it was great but not the classic I was expecting from it. Maybe I came in with too high of expectations. 

On the other hand ***** Casas vs. Hijo Del Santo 9/19/97 was absolutely AMAZING. Lived up to the hype I heard about it completely. Javier Cruz vs. Ciclon Ramirez is a great match(wouldn't put it on the same plateau as Casas/Santo) so I might post reviews of those at some point. Got the 10/3/97 mini trios to watch at some point which I am pumped for as well as Dandy/Casas/Santo which wasn't making a whole lot of sense when I first attempted to watch it but I didn't get too far in to it.


----------



## Yeah1993

Rules of Casas/Dandy/Santo:

Three men start in the ring.
One is pinned/submits/blah blah, he is pushed aside.
The other two wrestle with the pinned man out of the ring.
Another is pinned. 
Whoever didn't get pinned can leave the match and his hair/mask is safe.
The two who were pinned have a match and put their hair/mask on the line.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*Jerry Estrada vs La Fiera, Chain Match, Monterrey (1991)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVvPiNvOEyM

Pure Lucha brawl, so anyone familiar with that knows what to expect. Amazing punches, nutty bumps, a really reckless environment and some great selling. There's something to really love about Monterrey brawls, the setting is just eerily beautiful with the ring torn to bits and looking contaminated with all forms of human DNA and the way they work the match gives of this really intimate atmosphere of two hobos battling for the first bit of food they see. So many brilliant punches and punch drunk selling from both men with Estrada bumping all over the places and having his face torn to shreds by Fiera's punches and chain attacks. They really incorporate the chain brilliantly into the match with numerous bumps and transitions coming into play because of the restriction the chain imposes on them, and Fiera in particular uses the chain to choke Estrada around the ring and in a brilliant spot where he appears to render Estrada impotent by digging the chain into his crotch whilst also pulling back to torque the spine. Estrada hits an absolutely spectacular tope into the seats when Fiera makes the mistake of pulling him closer into the ropes and I adored him headbutting the referee on the outside when he attempted to interfere with his beating of Fiera. There's also an incredible over the top rope suplex spot when Fiera staggers backwards into the ropes and both men just tumble to the floor, looked hideous and unco-operative and basically summed up the entire match. 

Its not beautiful or graceful, but its got an innate charm from the atmosphere, to the punch drunk selling and theatrical bumps. The grainy raw footage just completes the seediness and almost filthy nature that is this match. Finish is fucking atrocious however. I knew going in it was the lowpoint of the match, but even I didn't think they'd do such a blatantly stupid finish.


*Sangre Chicana vs El Perro Aguayo, Hair vs Hair (2/28/86)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QupMDu8c8Ts

Best wrestling discovery I have ever made? This would do well to leave my top 3 brawls of all time truth be told and on first watch it feels like a surefire MOTDC. The chemistry these two men have is frightfully good. The punches, the bumping, the expressive selling, the build and pacing through to the final fall, their ability to make themselves come off as superstars and create this magnetic and pulsating atmosphere that immerces itself into every nearfall in the 3rd fall (of which there are at least 20) is second to none. Chicana is such an underrated brawler, technico and arguably as a worker in general. His offence is magnificent, his expressive selling as compelling and gripping as anyone that has come out of America and he just controls a crowd throughout the match. Perro to his credit isn't far behind and really manages to come off as the ultimate foil to the beloved Chicana. His offence, bumping and timing is extraordinary and he contributes just as much to the match and sequences as Chicana does. All the heat and control segments are enthralling and brilliant with both men timing everything to perfection and bumping stupendously to draw the crowd into everything. Chicana's comeback and its entire build and payoff in the 2nd caida is some of the most beautiful work I've seen in Lucha, and it all stems from the emphatic beating he takes in the opening caida and throughout the second. I can't describe just how violent, authentic and passionate the sequences between these two feel. It truly has that vibrant feel that you only get from two of the very best in this sort of setting.

The final fall may be a top 3 I've seen from Lucha. There's an absurd amount of nearfalls but they build the monumental nearfalls (any submission as well as a couple of quick desperate roll ups) as pivotal and even the minor nearfalls are paced and sold well enough that you can excuse them as just emphasising the desire to win. Neither man cares about following up on offence, the minute their opponent collapses to the ground they'll drop to pin him and save their hair. The dives in the final fall again add to the escalating drama and put over the need to win the match, Chicana's however is the best of the bunch and looks spine shattering as Perro crashes into a row of seats upon impact. The crowd as well add so much to the match, but especially that deciding caida. Every punch, every kick, every nearfall gets a reaction and you can feel the terror in their voices whenever Chicana looks to be on the brink of defeat and the bedlam when he manages to force his way back into the match. Honestly, if you're not a Lucha enthusiast the final fall could prove to much for you, but when you come to understand the psychology in Lucha hair matches and especially the importance of that final fall, this was just awe inspiring.


----------



## Chingo Bling

Every time I see terceda caida, I always get so pissed when I see them show highlights of these classic matches I cant find online. 

How do they get those tapes?


----------



## Yeah1993

Chicana/Perro isn't terribly new. It was put on Alfredo's site in 2011 around the same time of the 88 Santo/Espanto. Hell, it might have been on the same disc. Hell, it might have been on the same disc as the Estrada/Fiera chain match. Probably not b/c that is fromt he 90s, but they were released the same time IIRC. Surprised you never read about it at WKO.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah1993 said:


> Chicana/Perro isn't terribly new. It was put on Alfredo's site in 2011 around the same time of the 88 Santo/Espanto. Hell, it might have been on the same disc. Hell, it might have been on the same disc as the Estrada/Fiera chain match. Probably not b/c that is fromt he 90s, but they were released the same time IIRC. Surprised you never read about it at WKO.


Honestly I only skim over a couple of threads at WKO, OJ's European thread is a godsend for essential WOS matches.

Really glad I had a look at the thread where the match was being discussed though. Was in awe at the chemistry they had throughout. Got the Chicana/Perro Cage match from Monterrey ready to watch later today as well.


----------



## Obfuscation

Hailsabin said:


> *CMLL 1/1*
> 
> *CMLL World Welterweight Championship* - *Two Out of Three Falls*
> 
> Polvora(c) vs Titan ~ ***1/2​
> 
> While I didn't think it was as good as some others in the thread, I legitimately enjoyed it. Which has been a hard thing for me to say from a lot of lucha of the last few years. Only major complaint here was the awful slow ref. How does he have a job? Rest was quality. Good stuff with some nutty bumps tossed in. Really good match and I'm glad I gave it a watch. Finish ruled when Polvora killed Titan with the RUBIX CUBE/Joker Driver. Titan's hand stand move was SLICK. Totally marked for it. Wanted him to win only b/c he busted it out haha.


Thoughts on that match from this year. Figured it was about as decent enough of a way to introduce myself to the thread. That or I could have said something like Shocker is ass. Yeah, both work. _(I miss Louie Spicolli too)_


----------



## Rah

Spoiler: FantasticaMania results (thus far)



*NJPW CMLL (FRI) 01/18/2013 Korakuen Hall*
*1) Tama Tonga & Titán b Euforia & Shigeo Okumura*
Tonga beat Euforia with the Headshrinker in 8:17. Okumura and Euforia argued in the post-match interview.
*2) Ishii, Rey Escorpión, Yujiro b Bushi, Diamante, Ryusuke Taguchi*
Escorpion beat Diamante with his double underhook piledriver in 8:29. Diamante had a new green and red version of his current outfit. Prior to the show, it was announced Bushi was no longer on loan from AJPW and had signed full time with NJPW.
*3) Rush b YOSHI-HASHI*
Rush won in 11:08 with his double underhook piledriver, called the Rush Driver here.
*4) La Máscara, Máscara Dorada, Máximo b Taichi, Taka Michinoku, Volador Jr.*
Volador (in his Avatar outfit) beat Mascara with the top rope moonsault side slam in 9:38. Taichi and TAKA attacked Maximo after the match.
*5) Gedo, Jado, Mephisto b Atlantis, Jushin Liger, Tiger Mask*
Atlantis replaced Mistico, who appeared at the start of the show to welcome the fans. Mephisto beat Atlantis with a middle rope Devil’s Wings in 11:21.
*6) Prince Devitt b Dragón Rojo Jr.*
Neither man’s titles were on the line. Devitt won with a Bloody Sunday in 10:21.
*7) Hiroshi Tanahashi & La Sombra b Misterioso Jr. & Shinsuke Nakamura*
Annual Black Cat memorial match. Sombra beat Misterioso with the Brillante Bomb and a senton in 13:41.


*NJPW CMLL (SAT) 01/19/2013 Korakuen Hall*
*1) Máximo & Tama Tonga b Taichi & Taka Michinoku*
10:07. Color commentator Milano Collection AT took a kiss from Maximo. Maximo ducked a Taichi kick and cradled him for the win.
*2) Gedo, Jado, Misterioso Jr. b Jushin Liger, Tiger Mask, Titán*
9:42. Misterioso beat Titan with “La Misteriosa” (middle rope Rosa Driver)
*3) Mephisto & Shigeo Okumura b Diamante & Máscara Dorada*
9:38. Mephisto beat Mascara Dorada with a middle rope Devil’s Wings.
*4) Dragón Rojo Jr., Ishii, YOSHI-HASHI b Bushi, Prince Devitt, Ryusuke Taguchi*
9:29. Dragon Rojo beat Bushi with the Dragon Bomb.
*5) Atlantis b Euforia*
Atlantis won with the Atlantida in 7:30. He was recognized for 30 years of wrestling prior to the match.
*6) Okada, Rey Escorpión, Volador Jr. b Hiroshi Tanahashi, La Máscara, Rush*
10:44. Okada pulled out a tope con giro. Rush tried to give Escorpion the Rush Driver, but Escorpion escaped and used his own barely legal piledriver (now named “Aguijon Mortal”/Deadly Sting) for the upset win.
*7) Shinsuke Nakamura b La Sombra [IWGP IC]*
13:29. Seconds were Mistico & Ishii. Nakamura came in as champion and kept the title (fifth defense) with a Bomb-Ba-Ye. Nakamura refused Sombra’s handshake after the match.



It almost seems a pity that they can't extend the time limits because this is one of my favourite shows of the year (or even perhaps swap around a few wrestlers to get slightly better matches). However that Devitt/Rojo match should be fun and, as for Sunday, Mascara/Volador should be great and Nakamura/Sombra is :mark:

Also, this card needs more Maximo/Danshoku Dino! :heyman


----------



## Rah

Leaving this here.

*Máscara Dorada, Mistico, Titán Vs Averno, Ephesto, Mephisto*
CMLL on CadenaTres: 2013-01-12 






I may not have watched this yet but, going by who is in it, I don't think this should be a waste of anyone's time while we wait for FastasticaMania to be uploaded. NJPW has Ki as Hitman, CMLL has Mephisto as Bane. Oh, and Máscara Dorada.















SMOOTH~!​


----------



## Obfuscation

Yep, I'm pretty interested in the Nakamura/Sombra bout. Styles clash right there. Wonder how it turned out. Got to check those events out when they're uploaded. Hopefully on youtube or dailymotion. Or XWT. That works too of course.


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

Just joined this glorious forum today and saw this place actually has entire thread dedicated to lucha libre! Viva! Just got my custom mask in the mail yesterday (hand crafted in El Salvador). Anyone else here have their own mask?


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

Rah said:


> Leaving this here.
> 
> *Máscara Dorada, Mistico, Titán Vs Averno, Ephesto, Mephisto*
> CMLL on CadenaTres: 2013-01-12


I forgot to mention earlier I watched a vid of Titan working out alongside a couple other tecnicos headed by Atlantis and all I can say is "Holy guacamole, Titan is a beast". It was also kind of funny cuz they weren't letting Dragon Lee try any of the exercises for some reason...probably because he was the CMLL golden boy or something.


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

Anyone here going to Luchamania USA? It has some HUGE names participating. If anyone is going and could snag some video I would love you forever, seeing as I'm on the frigid east coast.


----------



## Punkhead

MusculosoBarbaro said:


> Anyone here going to Luchamania USA? It has some HUGE names participating. If anyone is going and could snag some video I would love you forever, seeing as I'm on the frigid east coast.


When is Luchamania?


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

TomasThunder619 said:


> When is Luchamania?


Today in LA at 6pm! 
Los Angeles Sports Arena
3939 S Figueroa St, 
Los Angeles, California 90037

you can get tickets I guess at FMLL.net


----------



## Punkhead

WOW. They've got all the stars.


----------



## Punkhead

I just watched a couple of old CMLL matches (Villano III vs Atlantis - mask vs mask and Emilio Charles Jr. vs Silver King - hair vs hair) and both had blood. Why doesn't CMLL have blood today? Are they the Mexican WWE?


----------



## Rah

TomasThunder619 said:


> I just watched a couple of old CMLL matches (Villano III vs Atlantis - mask vs mask and Emilio Charles Jr. vs Silver King - hair vs hair) and both had blood. Why doesn't CMLL have blood today? Are they the Mexican WWE?


I may be wrong, but title matches are governed by the sporting commission (much like territory wrestling was in the 1980s) and thus cannot have blood in their matches. As for the rest of their matches, blood is kept to a bare minimum not, afaik, due to PG elements but rather as to not over-saturate their product.

It makes sense. Look at the feuds that do get blood such as Casas/Panther from last year. When they happen they're bloodbaths. The feud's culminated into such a boiling point that the men involved want to kill each other. For me, the very fact that it's a novelty element within the promotion adds depth to the match/feud when its used because it's not simply thrown around so loosely.

Besides, is Lucha even a style of wrestling that befits the use of blood in its matches? I wouldn't say so. It's more of a "purer" art-form than other styles in that it's about finesse, agility and perfected acrobatics over smash-mouth, ground and pound wrasslin'.


----------



## Concrete

If anyone sees a bloody lucha brawl this year, post it ASAP. I missed the Black Terry vs. Chico Che Hair vs. Hair match and the bloody TXT tag(s?) and I feel terrible an incomplete.


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

Did anyone catch footage of the Luchamania 2013 show in LA?


----------



## Punkhead

I now umderstand why CMLL has no blood, but then why AAA has plenty of blood? Just watch Lider/Psicosis feud from last year.


----------



## Obfuscation

Rah said:


> I may be wrong, but title matches are governed by the sporting commission (much like territory wrestling was in the 1980s) and thus cannot have blood in their matches. As for the rest of their matches, blood is kept to a bare minimum not, afaik, due to PG elements but rather as to not over-saturate their product.
> 
> It makes sense. Look at the feuds that do get blood such as Casas/Panther from last year. When they happen they're bloodbaths. The feud's culminated into such a boiling point that the men involved want to kill each other. For me, the very fact that it's a novelty element within the promotion adds depth to the match/feud when its used because it's not simply thrown around so loosely.
> 
> Besides, is Lucha even a style of wrestling that befits the use of blood in its matches? I wouldn't say so. It's more of a "purer" art-form than other styles in that it's about finesse, agility and perfected acrobatics over smash-mouth, ground and pound wrasslin'.


Great point. I don't often expect blood from Lucha matches like I do from something more along the lines of a gritty, southern style booked program. Lucha's heart isn't in that granted there are exceptions to the rule. Doesn't hurt CMLL to make the sign of blood noteworthy and a big deal when AAA has so much random blood in various matches that it means little or nothing at all. So many Mesias matches are flying through my head.

LuchaMania - Wait, I had a chance to see Mascarita Sagrada in person a few days ago? ahhhhhhhhhhh.


----------



## obby

Does anyone here actually watch AAA? Is it any good? I've looked around, and I can't seem to find a good source for any of the matches/events/shows/whatever.


----------



## Obfuscation

If you like constant botches, mindfuckery type finishes, and egos running wild then AAA might be for you.


----------



## Yeah1993

It does have LA Park, though.


----------



## Obfuscation

It's why I tune in.


----------



## obby

It seems like a mexican abridged version of TNA in 2009 from an outside look.

Yeah, La Parka was the main reason I was interested.


----------



## Rah

AAA minis > CMLL minis, though. Dinastía :mark:

Cubsfan usually posts the shows up on his blog via Sendspace, and every now and again to Youtube. This guy seems to upload entire shows.


----------



## Punkhead

Dinastia, LA Park, Cibernetico and minis are the only reasons why some people still watch AAA. I always thought of AAA like of lucha version of TNA and CMLL as of lucha version of WWE.


----------



## DaiKaiju

TomasThunder619 said:


> Dinastia, LA Park, Cibernetico and minis are the only reasons why some people still watch AAA. I always thought of AAA like of lucha version of TNA and CMLL as of lucha version of WWE.


I still like watching Dr. Wagner Jr (and LA Park needs to stop wearing white)


----------



## Punkhead

AAA is kinda like WCW. They aren't making many new stars (Daga is probably the only star AAA made in 2012, I may be wrong, though) and are using veterans (like LA Park, Dr. Wagner Jr.).


----------



## obby

It seems to alternate from a six sided to four sided ring often. That's odd :hmm:


----------



## Punkhead

obby said:


> It seems to alternate from a six sided to four sided ring often. That's odd :hmm:


If I get it right, six-sided rings are only used for PPV's and weekly shows use four-sided rings.


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

I also enjoy how embedded into society lucha libre has become in Mexico. Statues of wrestlers, vendors selling masks on street corners and even political-activists dressed as luchadors (Super Barrio being the big name I think of....He's even met Subcommandante Marcos of the Zapatista movement!! :mark: )


----------



## Obfuscation

TomasThunder619 said:


> Dinastia, LA Park, Cibernetico and minis are the only reasons why some people still watch AAA. I always thought of AAA like of lucha version of TNA and CMLL as of lucha version of WWE.


Touche. I've seem to focus on it like that too. Especially with the TNA/AAA relationship. _(I know TNA has done some with CMLL too, but that's neither here or there for the sake of the comparison)_


----------



## 777

HayleySabin said:


> If you like constant botches, mindfuckery type finishes, and egos running wild then AAA might be for you.


Damn you. How dare you besmirch my favorite promotion, LOL.
The description is accurate though, however I don't necessarily view these as a negative and find the product thoroughly entertaining. Character and story wise they're probably the best promotion in the world IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation

Only in AAA can you see LA Park teaming up with La Parka, so they have that going for them. Plus, I'm so familiar with their roster that despite all the flaws, I do manage to get a kick out of it. More so when I've learned to turn my brain off and have to deal with the crap that can go down. Aka - The TNA approach. 

Wow, the comparison really does go hand in hand.

As far as characters go - AAA has a fun bunch. I'm still a sucker for Chikara in that retrospect, however.


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

I'm always thrown off by the multiple personalities who typically share the same or somewhat similar name, particularly LA Park. LA Park is the ORIGINAL, correct? And some legal trouble occured and he had to change names? Speaking spanish would help me so much right now.


----------



## 777

MusculosoBarbaro said:


> I'm always thrown off by the multiple personalities who typically share the same or somewhat similar name, particularly LA Park. LA Park is the ORIGINAL, correct? And some legal trouble occured and he had to change names? Speaking spanish would help me so much right now.


Dude, you gotta check out LA Park vs La Parka @ Triplemania 18, was supposed to be over the name using those legal issues as a backstory. Great match, one of my favorites.


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

777 said:


> Dude, you gotta check out LA Park vs La Parka @ Triplemania 18, was supposed to be over the name using those legal issues as a backstory. Great match, one of my favorites.



I will but only because you have Papa Emeritus as your avatar. <3 Ghost.


----------



## Obfuscation

Fabi Apache owns.

That is all.


----------



## Punkhead

777 said:


> Dude, you gotta check out LA Park vs La Parka @ Triplemania 18, was supposed to be over the name using those legal issues as a backstory. Great match, one of my favorites.


Yeah, but they both still use the name and that's what I don't like in AAA. Not following their storylines, just like TNA (at least they used to, now I don't watch it, I don't know).


----------



## 777

TomasThunder619 said:


> Yeah, but they both still use the name and that's what I don't like in AAA. Not following their storylines, just like TNA (at least they used to, now I don't watch it, I don't know).


I disagree, I found it to be remarkable booking in that it allowed both incredibly over talent to maintain their momentum/characters. Was also a fantastic way to introduce PDM. It was win-win, the match had the benefit of the hype but the result allowed the company to make even more money with both characters still on the roster.


----------



## DaiKaiju

HayleySabin said:


> Fabi Apache owns.
> 
> That is all.


Even without speaking Spanish, I know this to be true


----------



## 777

The combination of Mari vs Fabi always leads to something special. Check out their match from Triplemania 16 which is up there as one of the best female lucha matches of all time.


----------



## Yeah1993

MusculosoBarbaro said:


> I'm always thrown off by the multiple personalities who typically share the same or somewhat similar name, particularly LA Park. LA Park is the ORIGINAL, correct? And some legal trouble occured and he had to change names? Speaking spanish would help me so much right now.


Original La Parka (one in 90s AAA, guy who should have been bigger in WCW) = Adolfo Tapia. Tapia was actually a wrestler since the 80s and went under various names, but then AAA came along and Antonio Pena gave him the "La Parka" gimmick. Tapia started working exclusively for WCW where he was a pretty big hit, and Pena still wanted to use the "La Parka" gimmick since it getting worldwide notice now in WCW. So he created "La Parka Jr".

Tapia left WCW and started working for Mexican promotions, which was fine by Pena, until Tapia head over to CMLL in 2003. CMLL and AAA are rivals, so naturally Pena didn't want CMLL to have 'his' gimmick of "La Parka". There were legal issues and Tapia was forced to go from "La Parka" to "LA Park" (La Authenica(sp) Park - "The ORIGINAL Park"), while La Parka Jr got to drop the "Jr" from his name.

Fast forward to 2010, and Tapia (LA Park) comes back to AAA and actually feuds with La Parka (formerly Jr) over the name "La Parka".


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

So then which La Parka/LA Park/La Parka Jr. is in the AAA lucha libre video game? good god this is obnoxious.


----------



## Yeah1993

When was the game made and how is the wrestler named in the game?


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

Just looked it up. He's named "La Parka", but it's actually La Parka II. The game came out in 2010 i believe.


----------



## Yeah1993

Yeah, probably came out before Tapia/LA Park came back to AAA. That'd be La Parka II/Jr."


----------



## 777

Watched Guerra de Titanes 2012 and they had a new gimmick variation, Parka Negra.


----------



## Obfuscation

777 said:


> The combination of Mari vs Fabi always leads to something special. Check out their match from Triplemania 16 which is up there as one of the best female lucha matches of all time.


Yeah, believe I saw that before. Down for a watch nonetheless. 

Oh, and the LA Park vs La Parka II program is fine by me. If anything that's the kind of program that is _perfect_ for Lucha. Ownership of an identity/mask. It's so smart, WWE used it with Sin Cara vs Sin Cara dating back to the Mistico days. Only, they suck. _(well the "real" Sin Cara does at least)_


----------



## asdf0501

i was sawing yesterday _El dandy vs ***** Casas - CMLL 03.07.1992_. And holy mother of christ, the first fall are almost 14 minutes of mat work but for some moments is like "How in the fucking hell they are able of do THAT", probably the best mat work i have seen in my life. i had high expectatives for this shit but i was seriously blown away by it


----------



## MF83

Goodhelmet's saying that 80s Mexico is looking to be the next finished set, although not for a while. Si!


----------



## Yeah1993

If Casas/Dandy is called the greatest match of all time by anybody, I wouldn't go out of my to disagree.


----------



## Obfuscation

This fits into my my brief El Dandy marking just for his stuff in WCW. Getting to the work that mattered in Lucha is well worth getting excited for again.

Watched that match vs Casas I think in late 2011. Only it feels like forever ago. Casas in all of those Apuesta matches = pretty much the most brilliant thing you could see.


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

I think I love all of you right now. I was beginning to think I was the only person that legitimately liked lucha.


----------



## Obfuscation

tbhayley my love for Lucha went away for a tiny bit. Credit that to personal frustration to the product coming off blah for me. After getting back into full swing of watching it I know why I started to love it in the first place.


----------



## USAUSA1

Idk about 80s Lucha but I love 90s lucha and 04-06' lucha as well.


----------



## Rah

Apparently the main to CMLL on Galavision 2/2/2013 is really worth a watch.

That aside, does anyone know when the Reyes Del Aire final is happening? Fully expect it to be Volador/Sombra with Sombra picking up the win.


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

I read the other day that lucha libre is going to be aired on Univision here in the States. Does anyone have anymore info on this? Is Univision available on Charter cable?


----------



## Obfuscation

^I took a quick peak and it appears it is available on that provider.

I think Lucha tends to air on the weekends. It does for me over here on the West Coast.


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

Just browsed through the tv listings for this upcoming weekend and there's no lucha


----------



## Punkhead

Anybody knows where to watch lucha in Europe? (Except the internet, of course) Maybe via satellite?


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

TomasThunder619 said:


> Anybody knows where to watch lucha in Europe? (Except the internet, of course) Maybe via satellite?


Doesn't Sky Sports air lucha? I know they show WWE matches, but I thought they aired lucha matches as well. I could obviously be wrong. While looking that up, here's a cool video I found:

BBC Lucha Video


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

Alright here's a question: Which luchador currently active has the coolest looking gear? Here's my current favorite.

*Volador Jr. *


----------



## Rah

I'm a mark for lucha masks/gear so I won't be able to contain this to simply ONE.

For overall costume:








*Mascarita Dorada*


Other designs/masks I love:








*Mascara Dorada*








*El Valiente*








*Ephesto *(though I prefer the gold version)

Mistico has also had some great masks over the years. The (red) rudo version is possibly my favourite of the lot.


----------



## Punkhead

Speaking of cool masks:









Badass *Drago* mask.









*Fenix* from AAA.


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

I wonder where Drago got his mask made and I wonder how much it cost them. Sheesh.


----------



## Rah

(Post Super Crazy) Histeria is also another favourite.
























Anyway, before we end up spamming this thread, the match I noted earlier is finally online...




:mark:


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

Great match. I still stand firm on the subject of Titan being an absolute beast.


----------



## Obfuscation

Drago mask is bossy.

Oh, man. Another pimped out lucha match. It's on the list. If not going to be watched - RIGHT NOW. _(just don't hold me to it_. )


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

A pretty good match I found a little while ago. Anyone heard of Pólvora? I haven't,... 







(Just did some research and apparently Polvora is the "welterweight" champion of CMLL right now.


----------



## Obfuscation

Yeah, that match is quality. (Y)

The over the shoulder head scissors spot to the floor was insane.


----------



## asdf0501

How can we be talking about masks without mentioning Solar










Blue Panther mask was also BOSS










And obviously Huracan Ramirez










edit: Not current ones, but whatever they are awesome


----------



## Obfuscation

*CMLL 2/2/13​*

Máscara Dorada, La Sombra, & Titán vs Psicosis, Mr. Águila, & Volador Jr. ~ ***3/4​

~ OH what fun this was. Maybe I got caught up in the bossy second & eventual third falls of the match thanks to the epic Technicos, but I really dug this. Even with Volador Jr still sucking it rocked. Titan continues to impress me. I've seen a few matches from him this year and he's left both smelling like a rose. I look forward to his career during this year and years after. It didn't hurt knowing I was familiar with everyone involved here. Aguila still looks to be in great shape and was performing on a high level. In fact most in the match were incredibly crisp when the action came on. The first fall's slow phase was so unusual and you can tell these guys (or most in the whole of Lucha) are much more comfortable when the volume is turned up. Some of the transitions in the start did look a bit lazy. Nothing major only it was a process of building as the match rolled on. Boy did it ever when the segunda caida commenced. Rudos took the opening fall, so the techicos were behind the 8 ball early. What better way to isolate them by having Dorada get LAUNCHED OVER THE TOP ROPE ONTO THE RAMP WAY IN WHAT LEGIT LOOKED LIKE 10 FEET. Brilliant bump. Dorada man. Dorada. Rudo beat down wasn't pretty until they decided to do some triple team efforts. Techicos get a jump on the rudos finally after DORADA leaps over the top rope into the prettiest transition of a hurricanrana ever. I was marking so much. Pulse pounding pace all throughout now. Sombra pins Volador following a double jump quebrada. More legit action. Third fall begins and it's about 6 minutes of non-stop action till it ends. I loved the dynamic here and it's prevalent more often than not of the rudos working the slower pace and busting out the flashy moves here and there, while the technicos got all of their offense when they were able to pick up the pace and land some truly beautiful moves. Including the INCREDIBLY orgasmic timed double plancha + moonsault to the outside - IN FREAKIN STEREO. Finish would could when Titan tries to get fancy with his glorious handstand offense. He would be crushed by both Psicosis & Aguila. Dorada attempts a save only to land on his fallen comrade. In comes a candian destroyer by Aguila & a package powerbomb by Psicosis and that's all she wrote. That was a rush of pure FUN.


----------



## Punkhead

Was watching an old CMLL show and found this:






Anybody remembers who was it, what was the story?


----------



## Rah

HayleySabin likes a lucha match! And Dorada!

:mark: :mark: :mark:



TomasThunder619 said:


> Was watching an old CMLL show and found this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody remembers who was it, what was the story?


If memory serves me right (and the most recent comment seems to indicate this, too) the video was nothing more than a medium to hype the repackaging of Palacio ***** (now Titan) and Metal Blanco (now Triton) after they had stopped working in November 2011.

As for the storyline that followed, the two teamed with Shocker to face Los Reyes del Atlantida (Atlantis, Delta and Guerrero Maya Jr). Storyline was pulled not even a month later after Shocker was dropped for whatever reason. Not all gloom and doom for Titan, I suppose, as his career did quite well since then (considering Titan is only 22).


----------



## Obfuscation

Rah said:


> HayleySabin likes a lucha match! And Dorada!
> 
> :mark: :mark: :mark:




I've appreciated lucha. I merely had a sour patch is all. _(not sure why. Guess I expected more instead of just tried to enjoy it)_ Revised my thoughts on the match and love it MORE now. 

Dorada is a BOSS.


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

asdf0501 said:


> How can we be talking about masks without mentioning Solar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: Not current ones, but whatever they are awesome



Solar is still very current! He was recently in an excellent documentary about lucha called "Tales Of Masked Men" which I believe was on PBS. He also starred in a recent (VERY funny) commercial


----------



## Punkhead

MusculosoBarbaro said:


> Solar is still very current! He was recently in an excellent documentary about lucha called "Tales Of Masked Men" which I believe was on PBS. He also starred in a recent (VERY funny) commercial


Damn, that was an awesome documentary. My favorite part was about Mascarita Sagrada. He's a funny little man. It's called Tales of the Masked Men: A Journey Through Lucha Libre. It's for everyone, who wants to understand lucha libre. A huge plus (at least for me) is that it is english. Highly recomended.


----------



## Rah

Take this with a *HUGE* pinch of salt but Octagon Jr. (who wrestles on the US Indy circuit as Samuray Del Sol) might have had a WWE tryout last weekend.

He was scheduled to perform at an AAA event but no-showed with the excuse of a prior arrangement with an "American company". Apparently his Samuray name doesn't apppear on any known cards for that weekend, while the dates did coincide with a WWE tryout (of which consisted of invited wrestlers only). It must be said that Samuray's ultimate goal in wrestling is to make it in WWE and, despite the name/gimmick he's been blessed with in AAA, if he was given an invitation he would have taken it.

(partial source: cubsfan)

Edit: *according to PWInsider he definitely was at the WWE tryout*.


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

Rah said:


> Take this with a *HUGE* pinch of salt but Octagon Jr. (who wrestles on the US Indy circuit as Samuray Del Sol) might have had a WWE tryout last weekend.
> 
> He was scheduled to perform at an AAA event but no-showed with the excuse of a prior arrangement with an "American company". Apparently his Samuray name doesn't apppear on any known cards for that weekend, while the dates did coincide with a WWE tryout (of which consisted of invited wrestlers only). It must be said that Samuray's ultimate goal in wrestling is to make it in WWE and, despite the name/gimmick he's been blessed with in AAA, if he was given an invitation he would have taken it.
> 
> (partial source: cubsfan)



I heard the same thing from mixed sources. I'm fearful of what WWE will do to both Samuray's and Generico's characters. Take Del Rio for example. An AMAZING masked wrestler down in Mexico, but WWE completely changed his character and even went so far to unmask him, which in Mexico is a total sin.


----------



## Rah

It was certainly weird that he was unmasked in FCW of all places and given a heel gimmick (noting his entire career was spent as a tecnico in CMLL) but he has finally turned face and given an opportunity to do what he does so well.


----------



## sXeMope

I hope Del Sol doesn't go to WWE. Not yet anyways. Give him a few more years in Mexico and on the indies. He's good now, and I feel like the Octagon, Jr. character full time in Mexico will do nothing but help him grow. Let him rise to the top of DGUSA/EVOLVE, and have a good run in Mexico, and bring him in and hope he doesn't bomb like Mistico did.

On a side note though - No matter when he goes, it will be funny to see him in the ring with WWE wrestlers. Dude's like 5'6". I always considered Generico to be a small guy, until I saw him standing next to Del Sol.


----------



## Rah

If it hinders his chances by declining the opportunity now for a later stage then I'm dead against it. He's always made it clear how that was his ultimate dream, and he should hold to that.

If he bombs the indies will have him back with open arms. I'm not sure how AAA will see him (noting how they've basically given him the golden key with the Octagon Jr. gimmick) but I'm guessing WWE won't open their doors at a later stage unless he reaches the major drawing/star status his AAA gimmick is aiming for.


----------



## Obfuscation

I'll take him coming up to WWE. Like Rah said, if he bombs, then boom. Right back to where he's at now. He's a good talent and has time to grow more. If that's in WWE or on the Indies/Mexico, he'll find his success.


----------



## rzombie1988

If we are talking cool masks, I like:
Shu El Guerrero









Namajague









Black Shadow









Espanto


----------



## 777

Volador Jr. vs Rey Escorpion for the light heavyweight strap is worth a watch. Don't know if they're turning Volador for the long haul but he was certainly technico for the night.


----------



## Obfuscation

I was gonna ask around if that's any good. I've never been high on Volador so that's why I was skeptical. I'll give it a chance.

Seems like that & the Rush vs Terrible matches are the only two highlighted Lucha bouts I've yet to see from the year.


----------



## Rah

777 said:


> Volador Jr. vs Rey Escorpion for the light heavyweight strap is worth a watch. Don't know if they're turning Volador for the long haul but he was certainly technico for the night.


I was wondering about whether to watch this or not, tbh.

I'm trying to keep the number of matches I watch down to a minimum due to my Honours degree having to take preference, but if it's worth a watch I can definitely find time for this. Ta.



HayleySabin said:


> I was gonna ask around if that's any good. I've never been high on Volador so that's why I was skeptical. I'll give it a chance.
> 
> Seems like that & the Rush vs Terrible matches are the only two highlighted Lucha bouts I've yet to see from the year.


GO.WATCH.RUSH/TERRIBLE.NOW.

Like THIS VERY INSTANT!


----------



## Obfuscation

Tomorrow I'll give it time if I can. 

Watched the Pequeno Reyes del Aire Match. Was solid. Nothing more, nothing less imo. Thought it went on a little too long.


----------



## 777

Wouldn't put it on a level with Terrible/Rush, but it did have some nice high-spots.


----------



## Rah

HayleySabin said:


> Tomorrow I'll give it time if I can.











You have awakened Condescending Casas from the confines of meme-land!

I kid. Watch it when you're free so you don't have to rush the enjoyment. It's worth the wait.



> Watched the Pequeno Reyes del Aire Match. Was solid. Nothing more, nothing less imo. Thought it went on a little too long.


Those matches usually go a lengthy period - the standard Reyes Del Aire from last year was even longer (the video is an hour long). 

But, yeah, shitty match for what it has been in the past - purely indicative of just how lacking CMLL's mini division is/has become. The entire opening sequence with Olimpico/Fantasy was bullshit with the usual "what do you bring to the table" story only being highlighted by Violencia's impressive work (which is something I should _not_ be saying). Acero's selling is fucking abysmal and as each wrestler tired it just became so obviously co-operative.

The only good moments here was Pequeno Nitro's spear and the nice dynamic between Aero and Olimpico in the final moments. I'd have liked a longer sequence between the two but Olimpico was tired and we weren't going to get anything longer. Still, the desperation submission move did seem slightly out-of-place (like midmove they were told to end things) but it at least made sense.

It also didn't help that the one commentator's accent morphs Bam Bam's name so a certain spot with Fantasy ended up being describe, with great excitement, as "Bum Bum Fantasy es muy grande". :no:


----------



## Obfuscation

:lol

That's brilliant.


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

Still one of my favorite scenes in any movie ever.


----------



## 777

Titan is a great young talent, my only problem being the disassociation between his name and his short stature.


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

posting this great match I found earlier.


----------



## Concrete

I don't watch a ton of Lucha but I like that this thread seems to be getting used a lot more than last year. At least it seems that way to me. Greatness


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

enlightenedone9 said:


> I don't watch a ton of Lucha but I like that this thread seems to be getting used a lot more than last year. At least it seems that way to me. Greatness


Lucha deserves a global audience!


----------



## Obfuscation

777 said:


> Titan is a great young talent, my only problem being the disassociation between his name and his short stature.


Seems a bit much, wouldn't you say? It's not meant to be literal. If so (El) Terrible wouldn't get any praise.

Jokey finish. idk, sets the tone of my point.


----------



## 777

Every time I hear the word I automatically associate it with someone/something of immense stature. I subsequently can't help but notice how small the guy really is. Kinda like the biggest guy in the jailhouse being named Tiny, but in reverse.


----------



## Obfuscation

Maybe that was a basis behind the name. An ironic yet complimentary moniker to embrace his skills being titanic, not his size.


----------



## 777

If the idea was to get me to think on the issue, then it was an ingenious ploy. As oppose to being an anonymous young technico.


----------



## Obfuscation

Lucha bookers were looking for a new way to keep fans engrossed. We cracked their code.


----------



## Punkhead

Great show, too bad I don't understand Spanish.


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

Just wanted to take the time to point out that El Santo, one of the biggest names in lucha libre, passed away almost exactly 29 years ago, on February 5th. Viva El Santo! Viva lucha libre!


----------



## Obfuscation

Why was a hardcore spot the #1 moment?

Unless I read the title wrong and that isn't "top 100 moments in Lucha Libre".


----------



## Rah

Rah said:


> That aside, does anyone know when the Reyes Del Aire final is happening? Fully expect it to be Volador/Sombra with Sombra picking up the win.





Spoiler: Reyes Del Aire



I told you so. Though it was pretty obvious, considering it now puts Sombra one up/tied in their best-of/all-time series.


----------



## Rah

Lucha round-up for the week:

La Sombra Vs Mr Niebla: **** 1/4* (Tirantes you geriatric referee, you!)

Dragon Rojo Jr. Vs Titan: **** 1/4+* (nothing lower than good but every big move was seemingly covered by the CMLL Arena graphic and I still loathe Titan's handstand shtick :no

Polvora Vs Valiente: **** 1/2* (had to watch this in fast forward due to time constraints but it looked better than Titan/Rojo, regardless)

Las Traumas Vs Diluvio ***** I y Silver Star: **** 3/4* (_No stop signs, speed limit, nobody's gonna slow me doooowwwnnnnnn!_)

***** Casas Vs Valiente: ***** 1/4* mark


Still need to watch the Apaches/Traumas inter-gender match from PDM 01/01/2013. Anyone managed to find the full match, by any chance? After seeing their work here, I've realised how much I've sorely missed the Traumas and their exceptional matwork for the past year.


----------



## Obfuscation

Looks like I got some catching up to do. Good thing I got the Rush vs Terrible match out of the way.

Oh, and Titan's handstand stuff OWNS. It's my favorite trademark about him.


----------



## MusculosoBarbaro

That post just made my Wednesday a hell of a lot better.


----------



## DOPA

Could only give ***** Casas Vs Valiente *** 1/4. Good match but felt like something was lacking. I'm gonna watch the other links you've sent Rah later (Y)


----------



## Rah

What did you dislike about it, out of interest's sake?

I'll grant that it's a "simple" Casas-esque match, but that's just how it was wrestled and something I doubt I could ever hate. Valiente's selling was second to none here and Casas changing his game plan from outwrestling Valiente to going for the knee was great. It really played up to Casas' attitude of him being the best in the world yet here's Valiente disproving that by outworking him.

As for the others, go ahead. They're good but if you didn't think Casas/Valiente was special, from my perspective, I don't think you'll find any of the others that spectacular, either. Well, aside from the Traumas/Silver Star matwork. No one could possible dislike that, surely. :argh:


----------



## DOPA

Rah said:


> What did you dislike about it, out of interest's sake


Except for perhaps the really quick second fall (I get why it was done though) there was nothing I disliked about the match per se. It just didn't really blow me away or anything.


----------



## Punkhead

Just watched ***** Casas vs Valiente and I gotta say that it was nothing really THAT special for me. But that's just my opinion.


----------



## Rah

The legwork wasn't special? Valiente's selling wasn't great? The way they covered their botches, transforming them rather into struggle spots, wasn't something noteworthy and something other wrestlers usually don't do?

Bleh.


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> The legwork wasn't special? Valiente's selling wasn't great? The way they covered their botches, transforming them rather into struggle spots, wasn't something noteworthy and something other wrestlers usually don't do?
> 
> Bleh.


I understand it was two great workers putting on a great match, but I personally didn't enjoy it and I wasn't that excited watching it, that I was, for example, during matches involving Mascara Dorada or Volador Jr.


----------



## Punkhead

La sombra vs Mr. Niebla was pretty great match and also pretty fun. After the match they were talking about mask vs mask match, but I didn't understand if Niebla accepted Sombra's challenge or not. Can anybody who understands spanish more than me tell me if he did or not?


----------



## Rah

From what I understood, Sombra asked for a restart on the third fall due to the DQ by Tirantes. La Sombra was playing it up saying he doesn't want to take the win over Niebla via such methods to which Niebla joked about taking him up on the offer before calling him a worthless dog (?) and walking off.

My Spanish interpretation of people talking is pretty terrible, admittedly, so I will secede if I'm wrong.


----------



## Punkhead

I'm pretty sure I heard commentators saying "mascara contra mascara", but again, I might be wrong.


----------



## Rah

Wow, I completely missed that.

I'm now hesitant to make a translation of this but Sombra started by saying he wishes for a single round with Mr Niebla to settle it fairly to which Niebla goes on to say Sombra isn't even in his own league. Sombra replies by saying that Niebla should, basically, put his money where his mouth is and put the mask on the line "right here". I can't hear the rest clearly but Niebla seemingly makes himself look like a much bigger deal than Sombra and that Sombra must know who he's talking to. Niebla then refuses by saying he doesn't want to (no quiero).


----------



## Punkhead

This is really interesting. Could this set up an Apuesta match at Dos Leyendas? Or maybe even start a long feud that would go on until autumn and finish with a big mask vs mask luchas de apuestas at Anniversario 80.


----------



## Rah

Time will tell but I doubt it because La Sombra/Volador played on an aspuestas match after their Reyes Del Aire confrontation. 

That definitely will never happen, though.


----------



## Punkhead

My recently watched matches:

*Mr. Niebla va La Sombra* (2013.02.09) ***1/2 -fun match
*Sangre Chicana Jr. vs El Pulpo* - mask vs mask (2012.09.01) **1/2 -didn't expect much, didn't get much
*Trauma I & Trauma II vs Diluvio ***** I & Silver Star* (2013.02.10) *** -pretty typical indy lucha match
*Carlito & Shawn Daivari vs Electroshock & Juventud Guerrera* (2013.02.10) ***1/4 -expected more, but it didn't let me down much
*Rush vs Terrible* (2013.01.26) **** -best match this year so far
*Rush, Marco Corleone & Maximo vs Kraneo, Mr. Aguila & Psicosis* (2013.02.17) ***1/2 -nothing bad to say about it


----------



## Obfuscation

I'm about 3 weeks behind on current Lucha. Haven't gotten any slammed through yet thanks to catching up on Puro & US Indies. I'll try to make a day of it this week.

Oh and all I have left to say is: Mascara Dorada rules the world.


----------



## Punkhead

Can anybody tell me what theme song is Carta Brava Jr. using in IWGR? Sounds something like spanish dance or reggaeton.


----------



## Punkhead

At 00:30:12 When Carta Brava Jr. enters. Anybody know this song?


----------



## Rah

Not a clue, to be honest.



> IWRG (SUN) 03/03/2013 Arena Naucalpan
> Trauma II vs Oficial 911, el Ángel [mask]


Oh how I love both Trauma and 911. I have hardly seen any work by Angel but, for all intents and purposes, he can remain uninvolved and enter in the last minute to take the aspuestas loss. Any 911/Trauma sequences will be bonafide gold.

No doubt ThomasThunder will peg it as "just another indy match", though. :side: Y U NO LOVE STELLAR MATWORK?!


----------



## Obfuscation

Why was Shawn Daivari teamed up with Carlito Colon?

Was this a way to get back at me for being sour on current lucha over the last few years? I'm sorry, promoters. Never do that to me again.


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> Not a clue, to be honest.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh how I love both Trauma and 911. I have hardly seen any work by Angel but, for all intents and purposes, he can remain uninvolved and enter in the last minute to take the aspuestas loss. Any 911/Trauma sequences will be bonafide gold.
> 
> No doubt ThomasThunder will peg it as "just another indy match", though. :side: Y U NO LOVE STELLAR MATWORK?!


I can assure you, I won't. I try to catch up with IWRG as often as possible and I love their matches. Did you see Los Piratas vs Los Oficiales last week? That was great. And I am looking forward to the mast match.


----------



## Rah

I didn't even know Oficiales had a match! :shock



HayleySabin said:


> Why was Shawn Daivari teamed up with Carlito Colon?
> 
> Was this a way to get back at me for being sour on current lucha over the last few years? I'm sorry, promoters. Never do that to me again.


Where was this, WWC? 

Who cares about WWC? :jay2


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> I didn't even know Oficiales had a match! :shock
> 
> 
> 
> Where was this, WWC?
> 
> Who cares about WWC? :jay2


This was in Arena Coliseo. The show was called Noches de Coliseo.

You should check out the Piratas/Oficiales match. It was a pretty solid main event.


----------



## Rah

Well, that a 911/Trauma/Angel match is FINALLY here!





But, I digress from why I'm here. You may ask how I can digress from 911/Trauma but this is why:





DO IT. HOLY SHIT JUST DO IT.


----------



## Concrete

I don't know why I didn't LOVE that trios match like I've seen some have but god damn if I didn't get giddy like a little schoolgirl when after EITA had kept on dropkicking Chico Che when he turned his back Che just stiffed EITA.


----------



## Rah

Recent matches I've watched that aren't good enough to go in the MotY thread yet might still be worth your time:

Dinastia/Mascarita Sagrada/Octagonito Vs Mini Psicosis, Mini Hysteria & Mini Charlie Manson (24/02): 3.25+ (perhaps setting up a 4way with the addition of Daga and Psicosis. Better than the match from last month and had some good action. Don't go out of your way for it)

Oficial 911 Vs Trauma II Vs El Angel (IWRG 18/02): 3.5+ (not quite reaching MotY level but the violence definitely has me pumped for their trios masked match next week)

La Sombra Vs Volador Jr (Reyes Del Aire final - CMLL 23/02): N/A (could be a MotYC but I was too distracted while watching the first two falls and the beginning of the third that I skipped this)

Angel del Amor/Chico Che/Freelance Vs Danny Casas/Impossible/Alan Extreme: (isn't as good as the other Che match I pimped but it is pretty swell and fun)


----------



## rzombie1988

Rah said:


> I didn't even know Oficiales had a match! :shock
> 
> 
> 
> Where was this, WWC?
> 
> Who cares about WWC? :jay2


This wasn't from WWC but WWC is legit my favorite promotion to watch each week. There's usually a pretty good match and tons of fun and believable brawling. Plus, they LOVE the blade.


----------



## Obfuscation

Sombra rules, but I'm still very lukewarm on Volador. I might give their match the time of day. idk. It's a toss up for me atm.


----------



## USAUSA1

Wwc is not Lucha though. It never been Lucha and never will be.


----------



## Obfuscation

Credit the influx of Spanish. International basis there allows it to be grouped by default, if you will.


----------



## Rah

Considering we add Chikara to the Indy thread and Dragon Gate to Japan discussion, maybe we should just change this to "Latin America". :side:



rzombie1988 said:


> This wasn't from WWC but WWC is legit my favorite promotion to watch each week. There's usually a pretty good match and tons of fun and believable brawling. Plus, they LOVE the blade.


Mainly joking when I mentioned WWC.

WWC isn't usually my cup of tea (I am a fan of bloody brawls, though) but it isn't terrible, no. And, I know, I do follow your review blog.


----------



## Obfuscation

Chikara? But they're too much of a melting pot with high lucha motifs to be grouped with anything :side: ~!

Nah, the thread name here is fine. Much the same as would be with WWC talk. Nobody is taking it literally for the content needs to be. The term "Lucha" in the title is almost a giveaway for it implying "wrestling worked in those Spanish speaking countries + under the style." 8*D


----------



## Punkhead

Does anybody know where to watch Perros del Mal? Both new and ole episodes. I really like their stuff and they have many great wrestlers.


----------



## Rah

It'd be a pain to sift through, but I'm not sure of anything besides LuchaDeMexico.


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> It'd be a pain to sift through, but I'm not sure of anything besides LuchaDeMexico.


They do have matches, but I would like the whole shows. Anybody knows where to find them?


----------



## USAUSA1

Blue Demon in AAA, a shocker to me.


----------



## Punkhead

I just watched a EMLL episode from 1997 and I gotta say damn, it's incredible how most of the guys from then still wrestle today, 16 years later, in the same company. It was also unusual for me to see wrestlers as Felino, Shocker, Rey Bucanero and others with masks.


----------



## Rah

1997? How in the hell does Shocker have 15+ years experience and still suck complete ass?


----------



## USAUSA1

Drugs probably, he used to be really good.


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> 1997? How in the hell does Shocker have 15+ years experience and still suck complete ass?


His peak was around early 2000s. He's getting old now.


----------



## Chingo Bling

Im trying to find the 70th Cmll aniversary show on dvd/vhs/anything anybody know where i could find any full matches? particularly the Hijo del Perro Aguayo match and the Virus/Volador/Ricky Marvin match.


----------



## Obfuscation

Rah said:


> 1997? How in the hell does Shocker have 15+ years experience and still suck complete ass?


One of the greatest mysteries of the wrestling world.


----------



## Rah

TomasThunder619 said:


> His peak was around early 2000s. He's getting old now.


He's only 41, though. I'll take USAUSA1's word that he used to be good, despite me never finding a good match of his. Cannot be bothered to watch anything of his from then, so, yeah.



Chingo Bling said:


> Im trying to find the 70th Cmll aniversary show on dvd/vhs/anything anybody know where i could find any full matches? particularly the Hijo del Perro Aguayo match and the Virus/Volador/Ricky Marvin match.


Sorry, man. Looked and all I found was a 5-minute highlight video.


----------



## Chingo Bling

Rah said:


> Sorry, man. Looked and all I found was a 5-minute highlight video.


Thanks for looking, I found that too. But the closest I came to finding was a dvd from Japan that had only the main events from the 71-75 anniversary shows. 

I'm going to Mexico in June, so maybe I'll find some tapes while I'm there.


----------



## Rah

Try posting on Cubsfan's website? Perhaps a user there might just be able to head you in the right direction. That or XWT.


----------



## BKKsoulcity

Laughed so hard listening to Jericho's explanation of those pointless 2/3 fall tag matches and how the format worked on MLW with Konnan.


----------



## Rah

Considering this got A LOT of praise from others, I'll leave this for you, anyway.






Bloody but waaay too openly co-operative in my liking.


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> Considering this got A LOT of praise from others, I'll leave this for you, anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bloody but waaay too openly co-operative in my liking.


Great match. One of my favorite matches this year.


----------



## Punkhead

Can anybody explain to me what happened during last week's IWRG show? Bunch of wrestlers ran into the ring, attacking everybody, beating them down. I'm not sure what happened, but the music and commentaries and everything was really awesome. There was Silver King, Ek Balam, more wrestlers from PdM and other indys :mark::mark::mark: Looking forward to seeing what direction this all will go.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

nah


----------



## Punkhead

From TheCubsFan:



> Ultimo Guerrero and Atlantis agreed to a mask match today at a CMLL press conference. They both signed a contract, but no date for the match was announced. Signing a contract in CMLL is the message that the match is official and this match should take place at September’s Anniversary show (most likely 09/20.) They set it by having both discuss their loss in the incredible pairs tournament, with Ultimo Guerrero explaining his evil plan was to advance to the final of the tournament and then lose, just so his malo amigo Atlantis would have to suffer. That’s the hard way of doing it. Atlantis later was brought back to announce a 30th Anniversary show in his honor on Friday May 3rd. Ultimo Guerrero interrupted with a contract this segment to demand Atlantis put words to paper and agree to the mask match both have teased. Atlantis hesitated, but signed the paper.
> It’s very unusual for CMLL to announce a mask match without a date attached to it. It’s absolutely going to end up being the Anniversary show main event, but they may want to tease out the date at least thru their usual June main show. The announcement of Ultimo Guerrero vs Atlantis steals a bit of attention from Sunday’s announcement of Cibernetico vs Perro Aguayo Jr. taking place at TripleMania (and maybe CMLL will be dragging out the date to continue that distraction; something where they tease the match as happening in a relevos suicidas in June only to really do in September is even possible.) Both are hugely significant matches for each promotion and should mean huge business for each show. Neither has a clear favorite. I’d guess Atlantis & Perro Aguayo Jr. winning their matches, but I wouldn’t bet on the outcome of either. I don’t think either show is going to really harm each other – they’re 3 months apart, and last weekend indicated fans will show up if they believe it’s an important show.


:mark::mark::mark:

The biggest apuesta match of the decade so far.


----------



## 777

Stoked for both match-ups.


----------



## Punkhead

A little off-topic, but Dinastia is my current favorite AAA luchador. And second overall, after Rush, of course.


----------



## Rah

I probably haven't felt as perplexed by the moves Dinastia pulls off since Taka/Aguila were jumping around in 1997. It's a pity the minis matches I've seen from this year are all dog turds.

It's nice he has the belt, though.


----------



## aivaz

777 said:


> Stoked for both match-ups.


Yeah it's great to see, also great to see they drew really good crowds for their respective big shows last week


----------



## Rah

New matches are up on Cubsfan. Should hopefully be a notable break from the string of dreary match-ups/shows, noting how two matches have piqued my interests:

CMLL on Fox Sports (Mexico): 2013-03-23
Rey Cometa & Stuka Jr. vs Namajague & Shigeo Okumura

CMLL on Televisa: 2013-03-23
La Sombra & Volador Jr. vs Atlantis & Último Guerrero

If you like Tescano being a douchebag, and squashing smaller opponents, his match against Zumbi should be up your alley.


----------



## 777

I liked the segment and how it led into the Blue Demon promo. Would like to see a lot more of Zumbi/Zumby on AAA.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

So what do you guys think of Soberano Jr? I can't decide if he is awesome or not.. 

I do like his character and he is surely very charismatic. I like his slimmer body too, (no **** xD) and he actually look like a decent athlete. His dropkick is AWESOME, probably even better than Zigglers. I like his dives, the congiro look very good. However, his ranas doesn't. He is taller than average so i understand if it's hard for him, especially in the lowcards when the rudos don't sell that well. I also think he is too slow paced, he need some more speed. Also his pin cover finisher is pretty lame actually.

What do you think about him?


----------



## 777

Soberano Jr. seems pretty green so far. I also worry about his build, not so much for look but safety reasons. Certainly has potential though.


----------



## EmbassyForever

How do you guys watch CMLL regulary? I know that they have a weekly TV show, but I don't know where to find this. How is CMLL's PPV system works? every week/month or? and AAA are as good as CMLL?

Thanks


----------



## Rah

Let the good times roll, let the good time roo-oll.

I don't particularly like AAA's product but their minis division are fucking phenomenal. I sound like a broken record saying that but it's true. That said I don't particularly follow each and every show from either promotion. I rather focus on matches I'd like or keep to feuds I want to watch. Otherwise I just read the reports on Cubsfan. That said, I do end up watching a good proportion of the matches each week.

CMLL have a good few shows each week (Super Viernes is their biggest, check out the linked site) but they'll have a super show or PPV on Fridays in its place. These special events aren't that often, however. There are three main continual shows each year (Fantasticamania in January, Homenaje a Dos Leyendas in March & the Anniversary Show in September) along with a couple stand-alones to make up the gaps inbetween. While you get some big match-ups on the big shows, you are still treated to some great matches on the regular shows, too.


----------



## Punkhead

EmbassyForever said:


> How do you guys watch CMLL regulary? I know that they have a weekly TV show, but I don't know where to find this. How is CMLL's PPV system works? every week/month or? and AAA are as good as CMLL?
> 
> Thanks


TheCubsFan uploads CMLL weekly matches on Youtube.

CMLL has few PPV, 4-5 a year. I guess one for every season (Spring - Dos Leyendas, Summer - Infierno En El Ring, Autumn - Anniversary show, Winter - Sin Piedad). They also have a major PPV in January every year, co-promoted with NJPW, called Fantasticamania.

It depends on what type of lucha libre do you like. It you like bloody brawls, then AAA is for you. If you like technical wrestling, then you should watch CMLL.


----------



## Rah

I'd give IWRG the nod for bloody brawls, though.


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> I'd give IWRG the nod for bloody brawls, though.


IWRG has a lot of brawling, but not as bloody as AAA. IWRG is my current favorite lucha promotion.


----------



## EmbassyForever

*Ángel de Oro, La Sombra, Máscara Dorada vs Mr. Águila, Psicosis, Volador Jr. - ***3/4-****
*
Really good match in my opinion, I'm just amazed seeing these guys doing unbelievable moves that I have never seen before with absolutely zero screw-ups. DAT Hurricanrana from outside was unreal, how the he did it? lol. Loved the Volador/Sombra exchanges, I assume they are feuding? a match between them sounds very good based on what I saw from both. Finish felt a little flat but still really great match. Oh, and of course, THIS thing happend during the match:











EDIT:
Just saw this GIF, Rush is awesome :lmao


----------



## Rah

Is that the 02/02 show? I really need to rewatch it. I don't remember it at all except for it being so fun!

Volador/Sombra faced Guerrero/Atlantis which I pimped in the last page of this thread. I haven't seen it yet, as a friend wants to watch it with me, but I'd guess that should set up a feud between one of the teams. Money's on the older guys, though. Volador/Sombra do have a lengthy match-up resume, however, which is more a "who's the better young guy" than anything else. Mask match was called but that's just a tease and nothing more. 

That said you should check out their matches. The Reyes Del Aire 2013 final is the most recent, afaik.

edit:


Spoiler: feud coming out of Dos Leyendas






> Ultimo Guerrero and Atlantis signed for a mask match. The date was left undecided, but there’s a 99.9% chance it will end up happening on the 80th Anniversary show in September. It’ll probably sell out the building.


The Dos Leyendas 2012 show is where Rush turned on his partner Terrible, setting up their hair match at the Anniversary show. So, yeah, looks like they'll do the same here


----------



## EmbassyForever

No, it's from the 03/02 show, here's a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlDUBCbMk6g&feature=youtu.be

Yes I'll def check out their matches, mask vs mask between them could be awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation

Can Atlantis just retire to make sure the plague of watching his matches these days doesn't continue? Pretty please, Atlantis. Do it and Party Rock your way into the sunset.

On that trios match asap. Mascara Dorada was the selling point. The best right there. Not to mention it is near the exact same six man that I creamed for earlier in the year. Just sub out Titan in the 1/25 match for Oro here and that's it.


----------



## Rah

No wonder I don't remember it, I never watched it. fpalm


----------



## Punkhead

If anyone is interested, I uploaded a few lucha shows on XWT and plan on uploading more in the future. Here's the link if anyone's interested: http://xtremewrestlingtorrents.net/userdetails.php?id=767165


----------



## EmbassyForever

TomasThunder619 said:


> If anyone is interested, I uploaded a few lucha shows on XWT and plan on uploading more in the future. Here's the link if anyone's interested: http://xtremewrestlingtorrents.net/userdetails.php?id=767165


Cool man, that would help, I assume you already watched the shows? what's your opinion about them? they're worth watching?


----------



## Rah

I don't have an account, what shows are they? Rzombie's blog does some extensive reviews, too, so that's worth keeping note of in what shows to watch or skip.

Anyway, I watched that tag match and I'm not that blown away by it. Good but not really stand-out. The Volador/Sombra show-off sequence was also let down by Sombra being off-point and not being as crisp as Volador. Mije getting thrown around like a rag-doll was funny, though. Poor Mije...

Oh, and Titan > Oro by a long margin.


----------



## Punkhead

EmbassyForever said:


> Cool man, that would help, I assume you already watched the shows? what's your opinion about them? they're worth watching?


Honestly, the DTU third anniversary show is way below average. The first Zumbi match is probably the best one from the card. Hormiga and Eterno were pretty good too, but nothing really good.

From 02.17 IWRG, Piratas/Oficiales match is definitely worth a watch. I also enjoyed the 5-Way match, although they did botch the ending and another big spot.

From 02.24 IWRG, championship match was really great. Absolutely worth a watch.


----------



## Obfuscation

Rah said:


> Oh, and Titan > Oro by a long margin.


(Y)

Knew the change there wasn't going to be beneficial.


----------



## EmbassyForever

TomasThunder619 said:


> Honestly, the DTU third anniversary show is way below average. The first Zumbi match is probably the best one from the card. Hormiga and Eterno were pretty good too, but nothing really good.
> 
> From 02.17 IWRG, Piratas/Oficiales match is definitely worth a watch. I also enjoyed the 5-Way match, although they did botch the ending and another big spot.
> 
> *From 02.24 IWRG, championship match was really great. Absolutely worth a watch*.


Yep, just watched the match, good stuff. Not MOTYC but it was very good. Really liked Cerebro ***** (?), he's really different in comparison to what I saw so far from Lucha and good Rudo.

BTW what's the date to the next CMLL's PPV?


----------



## Máscara Dorada

The lower card rudos in CMLL is really bad man. Some of them can't sell for shit really. I also wonder when this new Mistico will stop no sell.. I mean he is young, he can pull of some very good moves, he is great to watch when he is winning. BUT, they guy can't even sell a drop body slam.. It's fucking painful watching him get "beat up" when it rather look like he get some massage while taking a nap...


----------



## Obfuscation

An unfortunate trait non at all uncommon with Lucha. It's why Mil Mascaras is an overrated fucker.


----------



## Punkhead

EmbassyForever said:


> Yep, just watched the match, good stuff. Not MOTYC but it was very good. Really liked Cerebro ***** (?), he's really different in comparison to what I saw so far from Lucha and good Rudo.
> 
> BTW what's the date to the next CMLL's PPV?


I think the next CMLL PPV will be Infierno en el Ring in June, if they decide to do it this year. If not, then it will be the Anniversary show in September.


----------



## EmbassyForever

How was La Sombra & Volador Jr. vs Atlantis & Último Guerrero from the 2013-03-23 episode? sounds like a very good match.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

EmbassyForever said:


> How was La Sombra & Volador Jr. vs Atlantis & Último Guerrero from the 2013-03-23 episode? sounds like a very good match.


Hasn't aired yet. Last time Sombra was in the ring he lost vs Hijos de Averno.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Really? weird. I'm pretty sure I saw this thecubsfan Youtube channel..


----------



## Rah

It's already out, but I've yet to watch it. It aired on last week's CMLL on Televisa.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

When do they announce the Gran Alternativa teams?

Edit: Sorry about that La Sombra comment, guess you shouldn't trust cagematch with your life.


----------



## Rah

Let's try revive this (I know, I know, Lucha hasn't produced anything that great lately):





I've heard ***** Casas has a match with Mascara Dorada coming up that may make it to TV mark. So, here's Dorada flipping around until he's hit with a Demon Driller by Mephisto off the turnbuckle. I hear Dorada/Escorpion is pretty damn good.



DoradaFan said:


> When do they announce the Gran Alternativa teams?
> 
> Edit: Sorry about that La Sombra comment, guess you shouldn't trust cagematch with your life.


They've announced some of the pairings, already. They probably are listed in full somewhere but I can't find a thing.

I'm guessing they'll get bare-bones worth of timing until the final match-up that make absolutely no sense.


----------



## Rah

double post


----------



## Rah

> - We noted before that WWE has signed a mini wrestler from Mexico to a developmental deal. That wrestler is Mascarita Dorada, who may have been the best mini wrestler in Mexico.


Holy.Shit.


----------



## aivaz

Yeah, I'm not sure what they're going to do with him


----------



## Punkhead

^ Me too. Unless they sign more minis and try to do a minis show again. They tried somewhere in 2004/2005 and it failed miserably.


----------



## Rah

Why do they need a specific division to do something with him? Aside from having enough high-fliers to keep him occupied, I do not see the issue in having him wrestle with bigger guys. This tendency to group wrestlers aside due to their size or appearance is archaic.


----------



## 777

Noteworthy for a couple reasons. First, it includes Willie Mack mark and AR Fox. Second, it's nice to see Crazy Boy back with AAA.


----------



## aivaz

Namajague is so impressive, especially for a guy who has only been doing this for around 2-3 years. can't wait to see him back in New Japan soon.


----------



## Punkhead

777 said:


> Noteworthy for a couple reasons. First, it includes Willie Mack mark and AR Fox. Second, it's nice to see Crazy Boy back with AAA.


Saw this match earlier this week. It looked great. The 'Nino Hamburuguesa wants to be a Mexican Power' storyline seems fun as well.


----------



## Rah

aivaz said:


> Namajague is so impressive, especially for a guy who has only been doing this for around 2-3 years. can't wait to see him back in New Japan soon.


Following on from the Namajague train, you should check this match out if you haven't:





Nice little aspuestas match.


----------



## DOPA

:mark: :mark: :mark:

Really short but so much fun this match was to watch.


----------



## 777

TomasThunder619 said:


> Saw this match earlier this week. It looked great. The 'Nino Hamburuguesa wants to be a Mexican Power' storyline seems fun as well.


Reminds me of Super Porky, crazy to see a man of his size pull off a suicide dive.


----------



## Punkhead

Does anybody know where I can find Box Y Lucha magazines in PDF?


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Very surprising with Hombre Bala & Atlantis from Block A. Didn't expect that at all. Now who will win Block B. My vote is for Zavala/Escorpion or maybe Soberano/La Sombra if they will go with Face vs Face final.


----------



## TasteOfVenom

So does AAA not come on Dish anymore? All I get is CMLL


----------



## Punkhead

So does anybody know where to find free Box Y Lucha or SuperLuchas magazines in PDF?


----------



## aivaz

Anybody know the song that plays before IWRG matches? Usually only a couple of seconds but I feel like I've heard it before years back


----------



## sXeMope

Anybody know anything about this? 

http://twitter.com/#!/RobViper/status/323944194236375040

Can't post pic right now. On mobile. Apparently Dr. Wagner Jr. is WWE Bound?


----------



## Rah

What's with all of the talent being bought by WWE as of late yet neglecting Rush? 

People are going to complain about him being too old (at 47) but we'll see his role soon enough. I guess the rumour of a cruiserweight division on the WWE network is taking flight with the lucha & Generico/PAC interest.


----------



## aivaz

Has this been confirmed by anyone else? Nobody I've seen so far


----------



## Rah

Opened the picture and it's a TROLL.

Look at the Wrestlemania logo - WM 24. Yet another Twitter douchebag trying to maintain his relevance, I suppose.


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> Opened the picture and it's a TROLL.
> 
> Look at the Wrestlemania logo - WM 24. Yet another Twitter douchebag trying to maintain his relevance, I suppose.


Strange. It's RobViper's real Twitter account. And he's one of the best lucha experts and works for TheCubsFan.

And also, look at the date. April 13, 2008.


----------



## Rah

Cubsfan is a single author, isn't he? Anyway, I see a later tweet saying:


> I feel like I should've mentioned that magazine was from 5 years ago. But I also feel like we're 2 weeks ago away from the same declaration.



Yawn. Moving on.


----------



## Punkhead

TheCubsFan and RobViper both work for the website and for LuchaWiki as well.


----------



## 777

Wagner 'is' a good worker and it would be a coup for WWE. I wasn't aware his contract was up/due, but he's been know to shop around to leverage better deals.


----------



## aivaz

For a guy who gets into a lot of violent brawls Chico Che is utterly jolly looking


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Who won Block B Gran Alternativa?


----------



## Punkhead

DoradaFan said:


> Who won Block B Gran Alternativa?


Bobby Zavala and Rey Escorpion I guess.


----------



## Rah

aivaz said:


> For a guy who gets into a lot of violent brawls Chico Che is utterly jolly looking


And he's only 34. I'd imagined him to be a lot older for some reason.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

TomasThunder619 said:


> Bobby Zavala and Rey Escorpion I guess.


Yeah you were absolutely right, although i had a slim hope that Espanto jr. and Mr. Niebla would win. I heard Rush/Sensei vs Sombra/Soberano was a hell of a match, can't wait to see it! :mark:


----------



## Rah

How much time did it get, though?


----------



## Punkhead

I still hope Atlantis & Hombre Bala Jr. will win this.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

TomasThunder619 said:


> I still hope Atlantis & Hombre Bala Jr. will win this.


Yeah me too. It could be good for the scene with a rudo win but i think they really should push Atlantis cause he need to look strong before his match with Ultimo Guerrero and Hombre Bala Jr. is very impressive.


----------



## Punkhead

CMLL is hinting at Mistico vs Volador Jr. mask vs mask apuesta match at 80 Anniversario. What do you think?


----------



## Rah

A) It won't happen
B) If it does, Mistico will take the loss

Honestly, if Volador was to take a loss in a mask match I'd prefer it to be against Sombra. That match just seems to be more seat-filling than against current Mistico.

___
What's your take on Heavy Metal Vs Texano headlining Triplemania?


----------



## Punkhead

Triplemania main event this year should be fun. Heavy Metal is one of my favorite AAA guys ever and I hope he wins.


----------



## aivaz

I thought Ultimo Guerrero vs Atlantis was the Anniversary main event? No way you waste both on the same card


----------



## 777

Guys like Volador and Mistico haven't been around nearly long enough to be losing mask matches at this point. Unless they wanna scrap their Mistico reboot.

Texano all the way vs Heavy Metal.


----------



## Punkhead

Shaun Ricker is hinting at something big on Twitter. TheacubsFan thinks he's been signed by WWE. He said that he won't be back in TxT and that big things are up.


----------



## Rah

Well, I can consider two possibilities:
1) He wrestled a try-out match with TNA last year August (or so), he may have been picked up and I'd guess/hope with Brian Cage.
2) Paul Bearer managed him down in Hollywood and past the recommendation on to WWE

Either way, he has a good look for WWE which is always a bonus. Should do fine wherever he goes.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Rah said:


> A) It won't happen
> B) If it does, Mistico will take the loss
> 
> Honestly, if Volador was to take a loss in a mask match I'd prefer it to be against Sombra. That match just seems to be more seat-filling than against current Mistico.
> 
> ___
> What's your take on Heavy Metal Vs Texano headlining Triplemania?


Sombra is overrated imo. I mean sure he is pretty good but sometimes he botch and his moveset isn't really that impressive. In that case i'd rather have him lose to Rush or Mascara Dorada.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Btw why does everyone seem to hate Sensei? I don't really like him either but is there a special reason?


----------



## Manu_Styles

Can anyone recommend me some good Titan (CMLL) matches? He will be in the next BOTSJ and i only watch him at Fantasticamania this year.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Manu_Styles said:


> Can anyone recommend me some good Titan (CMLL) matches? He will be in the next BOTSJ and i only watch him at Fantasticamania this year.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emkCJ0ge2cw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO5cNQ6k5KE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht6DXZSpDE4


----------



## Rah

DoradaFan said:


> Btw why does everyone seem to hate Sensei? I don't really like him either but is there a special reason?


Haven't seen him enough to validate any opinion on him. I know you're not alone in your hate, though. Then again, the same people absolutely loathe Rush and his brother.


----------



## Obfuscation

Atlantis main eventing? 

I know name value means something, but c'mon bookers. Lets make a main event have a chance at being good.


----------



## Punkhead

Obfuscation said:


> Atlantis main eventing?
> 
> I know name value means something, but c'mon bookers. Lets make a main event have a chance at being good.


What do you have against Atlantis? I know he's old, but he's still in shape.


----------



## Punkhead

There is a funny story on TheCubsFan:



> This is a weird story, and only partially a lucha libre one. The FBI and other law enforcement raided an April 7th lucha libre show in McAllen, Texas, shutting down the show and the whole block. They claimed at the time it was due to an immigration issue, but it turns out they were looking for a Reynosa based drug cartel boss (and his brother) who is also rumored to be luchador Imagen II. Imagen II was on the card – but it was a completely different guy who also uses the same name. The non-crime boss Imagen II says he’s been using that name for 20 years, his brother was Image and he doesn’t want to change his name just because someone is also using the name. That first link says local promoters know of at least five different Imagen II in the area!


More [URL="http://www.themonitor.com/news/local/article_b6b179da-b450-11e2-a7b3-001a4bcf6878.html]HERE[/URL].


----------



## Corey

Anyone seen any of these El Hijo Del Santo matches?:

El Hijo Del Santo y Atlantis vs. Fuerza Guerrera y Lobo Rubio (1984) 
El Hijo Del Santo vs. Black Shadow Jr. (WWA 1986) 
El Hijo Del Santo vs. Espanto Jr. (Mask Match) (8/31/86) 
El Hijo Del Santo vs. ***** Casas (7/18/87) 
El Hijo Del Santo, Super Astro y Blue Demon Jr. vs. All Star, Rocky Star y Fuerza Guerrera (CMLL 11/25/89) 
El Hijo Del Santo y Fuerza Guerrera vs. Rocky Star y All Star (CMLL 11/25/89)


----------



## Obfuscation

TomasThunder619 said:


> What do you have against Atlantis? I know he's old, but he's still in shape.


He's a pile of crap when he works these days. That's what I have against him.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Obfuscation said:


> He's a pile of crap when he works these days. That's what I have against him.


This is probably his last big push, for honoring purposes. I actually think he is still very good for his age. 

Think of the options, i'd cut myself bloody of sadness if they got Shocker or some other useless piece of shit.


----------



## Rah

So, after dreaming the other day that I could buy Namajague as my own personal slave, I've come to realise I've been really slack in trying to complete his heap of goodness from this year. I cannot wait for the weekend so I can finally amend this tragedy.


----------



## Rah

*Ángel de Oro, Diamante, Valiente Vs Namajague, Puma, Virus (CMLL 30/04)* - a good first half, and some great matwork dispersed throughout. Silly nonsense for most of the second half, though.

*Namajague Vs Rey Cometa (Aspuestas - CMLL 26/04)* - Namajague's split-legged powerbomb and spear are amazing visuals. Namajague really gets "it" in terms of what a wrestler should be, as he's putting on an amazing run all of a sudden. Everything here clicked, with the selling from both men being good to great, and each fall felt worthwhile. Namajague might have now lost both his mask and hair in quick succession, but his stock has only but gone up.

*Rey Cometa & Stuka Jr. Vs Namajague & Shigeo Okumura (Aspuestas - CMLL 15/03) *- Namajague stiff kicking Stuka's head, nonchalantly, in breaking the pin is probably the best metaphor to use in how Namajague's taken to my best worker list. The inner story of Stuka always being there for Rey only for Rey to attempt to be too flashy in his offence leading to many backfires throughout the match was nifty. Really nice visual as Stuka screams for Rey not to try finish the match with a 450 only for Rey to actually make it work. The misses really helped build that final move, however, and the crowd really ate the final pinfall up. Phenomenal match that is easily one of the better lucha matches this year.


----------



## Punkhead

Nice job, Rah. It would be awesome, if you could sign up to LuchaWiki and help edit this 2013 MOTYC page that I started, but failed to continue to update it because I haven't watched much lucha lately.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

If you interested, check out my Soberano video! :cheer THE VIDEO RIGHT HERE


----------



## horrorfan_1984

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Anyone seen any of these El Hijo Del Santo matches?:
> 
> El Hijo Del Santo y Atlantis vs. Fuerza Guerrera y Lobo Rubio (1984)
> El Hijo Del Santo vs. Black Shadow Jr. (WWA 1986)
> El Hijo Del Santo vs. Espanto Jr. (Mask Match) (8/31/86)
> El Hijo Del Santo vs. ***** Casas (7/18/87)
> El Hijo Del Santo, Super Astro y Blue Demon Jr. vs. All Star, Rocky Star y Fuerza Guerrera (CMLL 11/25/89)
> El Hijo Del Santo y Fuerza Guerrera vs. Rocky Star y All Star (CMLL 11/25/89)


seen all of them ask me anything


----------



## Corey

horrorfan_1984 said:


> seen all of them ask me anything


Well... are they good? Any standouts? Classics?


----------



## Punkhead

Sorry, DoradaFan, but I had to delete that Fenomeni Jr. guy's profile from LuchaWiki. It will remain deleted unless you can prove that he worked for a lucha promotion.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

TomasThunder619 said:


> Sorry, DoradaFan, but I had to delete that Fenomeni Jr. guy's profile from LuchaWiki. It will remain deleted unless you can prove that he worked for a lucha promotion.


He probably did not. They just had these events on the city square once in a while.


----------



## Punkhead

DoradaFan said:


> He probably did not. They just had these events on the city square once in a while.


In that case, It will remain deleted. To have his profile on LuchaWiki a wrestle has to have worked for a lucha promotion or in Mexico.

P. S. Did you just create a second account?


----------



## Máscara Dorada

TomasThunder619 said:


> In that case, It will remain deleted. To have his profile on LuchaWiki a wrestle has to have worked for a lucha promotion or in Mexico.
> 
> P. S. Did you just create a second account?


Yeah, leave it be cause i have no idea if he is. Maybe he is now, maybe he changed name, he can be anywhere or do anything today. I just don't know. All i know is i saw him wrestle in Italy 2012. 

P.S: Yeah i did, thought it would be better if i had the same name everywhere. You can delete/shut down or do whatever with the other account.


----------



## SuperSkippy

Do any Lucha Libre matches ever end 2-0?


----------



## Rah

DoradaFan said:


> If you interested, check out my Soberano video! :cheer THE VIDEO RIGHT HERE


He's actually El Soberano while Soberano Jr. is his father. 

Some great moves in that video, though.


----------



## aivaz

SuperSkippy said:


> Do any Lucha Libre matches ever end 2-0?


Yes. I love when it happens too. Not least because when you have a best of 3 falls that goes 2-1 and you have the worst, most unconvincing 2nd fall 70% of the time. 

There aren't enough brutal rudo squashes, especially in CMLL. But when it happens its like FEED ME YOUR TEARS TECNICOS NOM NOM


----------



## Corey

*Mask vs. Mask*
El Hijo Del Santo vs. Espanto Jr. (_8/31/1986_)

Ok I'm not gonna lie, I'm in the dark when it comes to lucha. This may just be the first lucha match I can EVER recall watching from bell to bell, and holy shit was it good. The first fall is only about 3 or 4 minutes but it was just tremendous. It's nothing but Espanto throwing Santo around the ring like a rag doll. So much more emphasis put on basic moves like a snap mare and a body slam & Santo sells it amazingly. As soon as Del Santo would roll out of the ring to try and get a breather, Espanto would be right back on and throwing him back in to inflict more punishment. Del Santo managed to get a few moves of offense in (which the crowd goes nuts for), until Espanto catches him with a facebuster, locks in some form on a Gory Stretch (idk the exact terminology) and Del Santo gives up in quick fashion. What a squash!

In between the first and second fall, Del Santo gets a loooooot of time to recuperate, quite honestly I'd say too much time, but hey, I don't make the rules. What's amazing is that he's selling everything so well, like he just took the beating of his life. There's little kids coming out of the crowd to give him words of encouragement for Christ's sake! This guy's gotta be like the Hulk Hogan of Mexico, right? Anyway, back to the match. Immediately as soon as Del Santo gets back in the ring, Espanto is all over him once again. More vicious snapmares and submissions holds to just stretch the hell out of every muscle in the body. Eventually he decides to start ripping the mask off of Del Santo's head, which he succeeds in doing, exposing most of the right side of El Hijo. This LIGHTS A FIRE under Del Santo's ass as he runs outside to get his barrings, charges back in and beats the hell out of Espanto. After a quick flurry of offense he hits a suicide dive to the outside, throws a weary Espanto back into the ring, hits a senton back splash and gets a 3-count to even the falls 1-1. Amazing how the mask coming off his face ultimately switched a trigger where he WOKE THE FUCK UP and kicked some ass. Man this is good...

Now it's time for the 3rd and deciding fall. Role reversal here as Espanto is the one who needs the extra time and while Del Santo is still weary of his prior beating, he's still anxious to get back into the action and finish this rudo off. The fall begins and Del Santo immediately hits consecutive running bulldogs. But he decided to go for a 3rd one and gets thrown on his ass instead. Espanto then decides it's time to go to WAR. He throws Del Santo outside the ring, whips him into the ringpost, then bashes over the head with a chair. Del Santo is bloodied and Espanto loves it. He then goes into full on animal mode and starts ripping more of the mask away, biting & punching into the open wound, and repeatedly spits Del Santo's blood from his head out of his mouth. AWESOME. This is getting pretty nasty, but we ain't seen nothin yet. 

Remember that back senton Del Santo won his fall with? Well Espanto tries the same, but Santo moves out of the way and the crowd goes bonkers! It's time for Espanto to get a taste of his own medicine, so Santo rips half the mask off his face in one felt swoop, and bashes his head into the ringpost and the metal bars that connect the post & turnbuckles on several occasions. Now we have 2 bloody luchadores with half their respective masks missing from their faces. The last couple minutes are all excitement with dives to the outside, a close countout spot where managers & people at ringside actually throw the combatants back into the ring, & several close calls on pin attempts. The standout moment for me down the stretch is a spot where Del Santo hits a splash from the top rope to the outside and as soon as his body hits Espanto's head, there's immediately blood spilling all down the side of his chest. Grisly scene. I won't spoil the finish for anyone who may wanna watch the match, but let's just say it's a very gratifying end to match loaded with hate and physicality. Both men look like they've been to hell and back. Espanto Jr. is bleeding buckets. AMAZING stuff, feel like I really witnessed something special in the history of Lucha. (Y)

***** 1/2

*I wasn't able to find a link to the match online (which is unfortunate), but some of you may know other places to look to find it. I watched it on a DVD-R & I'm not sure if I'd be able to rip that or not. If you do happen to find the match, just be aware the quality is kinda meh and there's no commentary, but it's DEFINITELY watchable. I'd love to hear some feedback from folks who may have seen this already. *WOOLCOCK, Yeah1993, Rah, *etc. ​


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Rah said:


> He's actually El Soberano while Soberano Jr. is his father.
> 
> Some great moves in that video, though.


I'm not so sure. El Soberano is the first generation, Euforia is the second. Commentators on CMLL seem to refer to him as Soberano Jr.


----------



## Corey

*Mask vs. Hair
*El Hijo Del Santo vs. ***** Casas (_7/18/1987_)

****** Casas is giving me some seriously positive vibes. LOVE this guy's energy early on. First fall is a total sprint, then it's over quickly. Nothin too much to note. 2nd fall is *****'s control segment. It was hard for me to tell whether he was wrestling as a heel or if he just really didn't wanna lose his hair and he always comes off this cocky and confident, idk. Santo makes the eventual comeback and wins after a couple moves. The 3rd fall is the obvious best one. Lots of good back and forth back action but I couldn't help but feel that Casas just got totally buried in the last couple minutes. Santo got all the high flying moves, all the big spots, and all the submission attempts. The only thing Casas did was fall off the top rope in stupid looking fashion.  Still a fun match but it wasn't quite as good as I had hoped it would be. Casas is someone I'd really like to see more off though. His bumping was great and he throws some stiff looking punches. **** 1/2*

------------------------------------------

Don't waste your time with the two matches I listed from CMLL 11/25/1989. I really don't have any idea what I was watching, it was THAT bizarre. The 6-man tag is some kind of over the top rope battle royal but the last two guys are declared the winners and the 4 people who lost the match went up in a tag match, but Del Santo & Fuerza Guerrera clearly did not wanna be partners and they had several confrontations throughout the match. It had no flow or consistency whatsoever, all I know is that the guy in purple (Rocky Star or All Star) got bloodied and half his mask ripped off & while Del Santo & Fuerza won in 2 straight falls, somehow Fuerza got his mask removed and he was bloodied as well. Weird shit.


----------



## Yeah1993

Santo/Espanto and Santo/Casas are two of the best matches I've ever seen. Interesting to see how you like the Espanto one so much more since I usually think there's more favour toward the Casas match. I'd have to re-watch them to decide which one I prefer.

Espanto has the greatest snap mares of all time. Bar NONE.



I was planning on getting the two amazing Dandy v. Emilio Charles from 89 up on youtube soon. Might do that today.



> El Hijo Del Santo, Super Astro y Blue Demon Jr. vs. All Star, Rocky Star y Fuerza Guerrera (CMLL 11/25/89)
> El Hijo Del Santo y Fuerza Guerrera vs. Rocky Star y All Star (CMLL 11/25/89)


^^ these can be confusing. The four people that lost the over-the-top-rope six man were force to tag with each in the next match (IDR how partners were decided). Santo was a tecnico (babyface), Fuerza was a rudo (heel), so they'll naturally clash. I remember thinking Fuerza was awesome in the latter tag, but it's been like three years. Lucha has some kinds of matches that can be confusing until someone tells you the rues (or you figure it out after MINUTES of confusion, like me with the 96 triangle.........:side


----------



## Corey

Yeah1993 said:


> Santo/Espanto and Santo/Casas are two of the best matches I've ever seen. Interesting to see how you like the Espanto one so much more since I usually think there's more favour toward the Casas match. I'd have to re-watch them to decide which one I prefer.
> 
> Espanto has the greatest snap mares of all time. Bar NONE.
> 
> 
> 
> I was planning on getting the two amazing Dandy v. Emilio Charles from 89 up on youtube soon. Might do that today.
> 
> 
> 
> ^^ these can be confusing. The four people that lost the over-the-top-rope six man were force to tag with each in the next match (IDR how partners were decided). Santo was a tecnico (babyface), Fuerza was a rudo (heel), so they'll naturally clash. I remember thinking Fuerza was awesome in the latter tag, but it's been like three years. Lucha has some kinds of matches that can be confusing until someone tells you the rues (or you figure it out after MINUTES of confusion, like me with the 96 triangle.........:side


If there's anything remotely close (or even better) than that Santo/Espanto match, PLEASE let me know immediately. I fucking loved that from bell to bell, and yeah I've never seen anyone put so much emphasis on every snapmare. So awesome. The Casas match was going great until it just got totally one sided (imo at least).

Yeah, confusing is the easiest word to describe it. The entire time I just had this look on my face like, "what the fuck is going on?" People were losing masks left and right and it was just... weird all around.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Jack if you want Mask vs Mask, Mask vs Hair & Hair vs Hair bouts:

Sangre Chicana vs MS-1, Hair vs Hair (9/23/83) - 

Definitive apuestas match. Ridiculous heat, sensational punches, bumps, legendary expressive selling by Chicana complimented by a violent and true rudo performance from MS-1. Stiff and legitimate violence, Chicana comebacks timed to perfection, sensational selling of exhaustion and desperation as the match takes its toll and the tension becomes unbearable. Fabulous.

Sangre Chicana vs Perro Aguayo Jr, Hair vs Hair (2/28/86) - 

Better than the '83 match imo.



> Best wrestling discovery I have ever made? This would do well to leave my top 3 brawls of all time truth be told and on first watch it feels like a surefire MOTDC. The chemistry these two men have is frightfully good. The punches, the bumping, the expressive selling, the build and pacing through to the final fall, their ability to make themselves come off as superstars and create this magnetic and pulsating atmosphere that immerces itself into every nearfall in the 3rd fall (of which there are at least 20) is second to none. Chicana is such an underrated brawler, technico and arguably as a worker in general. His offence is magnificent, his expressive selling as compelling and gripping as anyone that has come out of America and he just controls a crowd throughout the match. Perro to his credit isn't far behind and really manages to come off as the ultimate foil to the beloved Chicana. His offence, bumping and timing is extraordinary and he contributes just as much to the match and sequences as Chicana does. All the heat and control segments are enthralling and brilliant with both men timing everything to perfection and bumping stupendously to draw the crowd into everything. Chicana's comeback and its entire build and payoff in the 2nd caida is some of the most beautiful work I've seen in Lucha, and it all stems from the emphatic beating he takes in the opening caida and throughout the second. I can't describe just how violent, authentic and passionate the sequences between these two feel. It truly has that vibrant feel that you only get from two of the very best in this sort of setting.
> 
> The final fall may be a top 3 I've seen from Lucha. There's an absurd amount of nearfalls but they build the monumental nearfalls (any submission as well as a couple of quick desperate roll ups) as pivotal and even the minor nearfalls are paced and sold well enough that you can excuse them as just emphasising the desire to win. Neither man cares about following up on offence, the minute their opponent collapses to the ground they'll drop to pin him and save their hair. The dives in the final fall again add to the escalating drama and put over the need to win the match, Chicana's however is the best of the bunch and looks spine shattering as Perro crashes into a row of seats upon impact. The crowd as well add so much to the match, but especially that deciding caida. Every punch, every kick, every nearfall gets a reaction and you can feel the terror in their voices whenever Chicana looks to be on the brink of defeat and the bedlam when he manages to force his way back into the match. Honestly, if you're not a Lucha enthusiast the final fall could prove to much for you, but when you come to understand the psychology in Lucha hair matches and especially the importance of that final fall, this was just awe inspiring.


Jerry Estrada vs Javier Cruz, Hair vs Hair (10/20/89) -

Andy adores this. Can't recall much again (sure I did watch it once though) but off hand Andy labels Estrada's performance as memorable. He's coked out of his head apparently and takes some lunatic bumps which adds to the insanity and utter chaos that dominates the match. Great punches, blood, bumps, tension, pacing & drama etc. Has it all in abundance.

El Hijo Del Santo vs Brazo Del Oro, Mask vs Mask (1/13/91) -

Bloody and mesmerising mask vs mask match. Santo takes a brilliant beating, has beautiful comebacks of agility mixed with frenzied and animalistic violence as the match progresses and sees great execution of the Lucha style to maximise the tension and pace the nearfalls to precision.

Trio Fantasia vs Thundercats, Mask vs Mask (12/8/91) -

Absolutely insane trios match which is mask vs mask. Bodies are flying left right and centre, some corkers of punches exchanged, frightening bumps and dives all combined into a frenetic pace which never drops and leaves you shocked the entire time. Its just an utterly chaotic match in the absolute best manner possible. 

Ciclon Ramirez vs Felino, Mask vs Mask (7/9/93) -

Truthfully I don't recall having ever seen this match, but if you can obtain a link I constantly hear it being heavily regarded as one of the best apuestas matches.

Ciclon Ramirez vs Javier Cruz, Hair vs Hair (6/10/94) -

Likewise as with the match above I can't confess to having ever seen it (or if I have my memory is shocking and can't remember for definite) but again its well thought of and definitely strikes me a match you ought to watch if you can find a link and to experience as many of the great apuestas matches as have taken place.

Atlantis vs Villano III, Mask vs Mask (3/17/00) -

So yeah this is just everything you want in a mask v mask match, absolute bloodbath with some brilliant brawling and working of the cut to draw more blood and some absolutely scintilating near falls. A lot of people hate the slow counts in Lucha but this match is as good as any IMO in demonstrating how the slow count builds more intrigue into each nearfall and keeps you continually guessing. Seriously there's a good 10 minutes of nearfalls which feel organic and natural and never feel like its reached overkill territory due to the simplicity of the pinning attempts both men are going for. Hot crowd, plenty of blood, great little touches from both wrestlers and some scorching dives. MOTD contender.

Black Terry v Multifacitico, Mask vs Hair (4/17/08) -

I'm pretty sure there isn't a working link for this match but I constantly hear about it as being touted as one of Terry's best matches and a sensational match so will throw it out here in case anyone can provide a link, however unlikely it would appear.

Black Terry vs Chico Che, Hair vs Hair (1/29/12) -



> I'd say overall I preferred this to the first match, but there were a couple of really bad moments which dampened the overall quality of the match. Che was much better here than in the lead in match, a lot less pandering and crowd interaction and more meat behind his punches, headbutts and kicks. His beating in the first and second caida just became more and more vicious as the minutes ticked by and Terry was his usual awesome selling self, looking on the verge of passing out from the blood loss and clutching his ribs for minutes after eating the splash at the end of the first fall. Whole shenanigans with Che's right hand man constantly proving a thorn in Terry's side was superbly played out throughout the match, and the moment in the third fall where Terry just launches a chair at him was incredible. Terry's comeback was short and sweet in the second fall, which was probably for the best given the beating he ate, though I do think it could have been executed/looked better. Third fall was probably the most divisive fall, Che hits a nasty tope and eats a particularly bad landing, both right hand men get more involved throughout which leads to some nice chaotic brawling between all four men and really emphasises the significance of the match, the headbutt exchange in the corner between both was just absolutely disgustingly stiff, and Terry pulls off some amazing punches in between. Terry's right hand man also hits a stunning tope on Che's right hand man to take him out, looked absolutely insane with the speed he got as he flew through the ropes as well as the landing with both men just flying into the chairs.
> 
> Sadly the spot where the corrupt ref got taken out was horribly executed, Che taking forever was at least nice selling of the beating (something both men did tremendously, from the heavy breathing to the delayed setups of particular moves), but the ref lying so close to Terry was such lazy telegraphing of the spot and then Terry pulls the ref to the mat, rolls a couple of inches away from and a good 5 seconds later Che somehow hits the ref and completely misses Terry. Just looked so shoddy and poorly timed and really dampened what had been a fine match up until that spot. Finish whilst also quite brilliant in a 'Rudo pisses all over the crowd's hopes' moment was also quite anticlimatic, although I did appreciate Che's right hand man kicking Terry in the balls being the setup to the finish, and despite Terry's right hand man ensuring he wouldn't play another part in the match, the continuing match story of Terry being unable to shake off the right hand man was built to excellently and served as a nice payoff. I'd say this just edges out as my favourite of the two, thanks to a much more tolerable and all round more pleasing Che performance, as well as the constant spots involving the right hand men. But fuck me if it weren't for that awful ref spot this would be a lot higher on any eventual MOTYC list from me.


Blue Panther vs ***** Casas, Hair vs Hair (3/2/12) -



> I've found out that CMLL and specifically Arena Mexico don't do blood these days, so sadly this isn't strictly the bloodbath brawl you expect from a Hair vs Hair match. However these two had mixed violent brawling with competitive matwork throughout their feud and therefore I had no mither with them working their own style of hair match, built on bodypart work, selling, superb pacing and the occasional stiff strike or two. Opening fall is tremendous, Casas sets the tempo with a nasty as fuck headbutt as Panther tries to drag him into the ring and the next few minutes are loaded with some strong offence from Casas in particular before a superb flash Fujiwara armbar from Panther for the instant submission. The second fall may even be better as Panther now sets about destroying Casas' shoulder and Casas sells it superbly before unleashing a superb counter into a stretch muffler and immediately capitalises on the weakened leg with a snap dropkick followed by a flash pin to tie the match up. The 3rd fall however is where this really steps into 'excellent' and MOTY territory, Casas destroys Panther's leg with an array of offence and there's this awesome Bryan/Sheamus esque spot where Panther is slowly struggling to put any weight on his leg, and Casas has this shit eating grin at how well his attack has payed off and takes the time to stretch his own legs as an insult. Panther's selling is superb and despite gradually shaking off the work, he sells it in a few sequences to really emphasise the damage still exists, e.g his hobble in the reverse gory bomb hold. A few people may dislike how Casas switches his focus away from the leg, but tbh this feud revolved around the skill and ability of both men, and I saw it more as Casas seeing the leg as something he could exploit whenever he was in danger, but just sought to hook any limb he could get his hands on rather than making his attack predictable and risking Panther spotting this and positioning a flash counter like the one which won him the opening fall.
> 
> Both men sell the wear and tear of their onslaught like only the best can, and Panther's superb tope and Casas' resulting selling as his previously injured arm bounces off the guardrail was just a supreme little attention to detail that left me thoroughly impressed. Both men save the big bumps and transitions for the final fall and the pace throughout is flat out superb, there were multiple occasions where one of them would find an opening and look to be on the verge of victory and as a result every little moment of struggle and fight felt that much more emotive and dramatic due to how skilled and vicious both men were throughout. Finish isn't what I'd hope for in a hair match, but it was probably executed as well as it could have been for what they were going for.


----------



## Corey

And Segunda comes through in the clutch. That post was definitely just bookmarked. The Santo/Espanto match was rather inspiring to say the least, really opened my eyes to a completely different realm and genre of wrestling. I haven't even heard of half the guys you just listed there, but I'm sure I'll become fans of them in an instant. (Y)


----------



## Yeah1993

I'm getting Terry v. Multifacetico sent to me (unless I bought the wrong shit), and I should get that youtube after I watch it. Ditto Terry v. Cerebro ***** from 07 which is supposedly a legit MOTYC (even with the apparently shitty finish).

Ingham you seen Blue Panther v. Villano V? I never have, but reviews are kind of mixed for it. Curious on as many opinions as possible.

-------------------------

Santo v. LA PARKA is incredibly bloody but I showed it to viva and he didn't like it very much. Be curios to see what Corey (is that your name!?) thinks of it. 

WOOLCOCK gave you good recs. IDK if any of those are on level with Santo/Espanto (actually MS-1 v. Chicana definitely, and Atlantis/Villano is pretty close if not), but, again, I think Santo/Espanto is an all timer. Santo/Casas from 97 is an all timer from me too and probably better than the 87 match, but I haven't seen it a while and reviews are pretty goddamn mixed for that one. 


I think you should definitely watch the Santo/Dandy/Casas triangle (which has sort-of confusing rules but I'll explain them whenever you want to check it out).


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Found my review for Santo/Espanto 8/31/86 btw:



> Opening Caida and a half sees Espanto Jr kick Santo's ass unmercifully. Santo eats the punishment up terrificly and I dug the way he arched his back in pain everytime Espanto flung him to the mat with such force. Also really enjoyed Espanto following Santo out of the ring to pick him up and toss him back into the ring to continue the punishment, never letting up for a second. He finally puts Santo out of his misery and locks in a killer submission which Santo has no answer for and Espanto is now up 1 Caida. This may shock a Lucha noob but Lucha title matches with 3 caidas have always followed an arc whereby the opening two caidas are usually borderline squashes in how one sided they are. This is done to show the audience both competitors can seemingly better the other with consumate ease and allow the deciding caida to have unrivalled drama with tons of believable nearfalls and submissions. In this case, Santo's ass kicking all builds to the second caida and how he can regain the momentum Espanto has created for himself, a perfect continuation in the arc.
> 
> Santo's selling in between the primera and segunda caida (yes folks if you didn't already know this is where my username comes from) is magnificent. He looks a broken man with no idea in how to defy the odds and keep his mask and little kids patting him on the back is a hell of a visual, that's crowd support! Santo manages to use his speed and anger to reclaim the advantage, Espanto bumps like a madman before eating a vintage Santo tope which freaking rocked. Santo then brings Espanto back into the ring and finishes him off with a back senton to tie the match.
> 
> The final caida is magnifico. Santo has already had his mask ripped and been bloodied from a couple of chairshots from Espanto as well as Espanto biting and working over the cut in a manner befitting Bill Dundee. Santo gets PISSED from this and rips open Espanto's mask for revenge and drags him around the ring to inflict pain and its a sensational image. Espanto hits a freaking awesome dive to the floor before Santo trumps him with perhaps the most impactful and violent crossbody to the floor I've ever witnessed. Seriously it looked like they were gonna fall through the floor it was that painful. In between this there are some slick pinning attempts and combinations which keep the crowd in suspense before Espanto makes a crucial error and Santo locks in the camel clutch for submission for the victory.
> 
> Hell of a match here, the crowd were amazing for it and Santo and Espanto worked the match beautifully in progressing the arc from Espanto looking untouchable, to Santo making his long awaited comeback to both men busting out everything in their locker to keep the mask. Not a better way to drop your mask than in a setting and match like this.





Yeah1993 said:


> I'm getting Terry v. Multifacetico sent to me (unless I bought the wrong shit), and I should get that youtube after I watch it. Ditto Terry v. Cerebro ***** from 07 which is supposedly a legit MOTYC (even with the apparently shitty finish).
> 
> Ingham you seen Blue Panther v. Villano V? I never have, but reviews are kind of mixed for it. Curious on as many opinions as possible.
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> Santo v. LA PARKA is incredibly bloody but I showed it to viva and he didn't like it very much. Be curios to see what Corey (is that your name!?) thinks of it.
> 
> WOOLCOCK gave you good recs. IDK if any of those are on level with Santo/Espanto (actually MS-1 v. Chicana definitely, and Atlantis/Villano is pretty close if not), but, again, I think Santo/Espanto is an all timer. Santo/Casas from 97 is an all timer from me too and probably better than the 87 match, but I haven't seen it a while and reviews are pretty goddamn mixed for that one.
> 
> 
> I think you should definitely watch the Santo/Dandy/Casas triangle (which has sort-of confusing rules but I'll explain them whenever you want to check it out).


Not seen it actually to my recollection, but likewise I've heard opinions vary from wonderful to pretty poor. Should give it a watch for the poll though so will try and get on that asap.

:mark: @ that Terry/Multifacetico news. That & the two Dandy matches would be amazing to see  .

Sheeeit was Santo/LA Parka mask/mask? Could have sworn that was just a bloody brawl. Defo watch that Jack.

Oh man, I read his review as the '97 Santo/Casas apeustas match. Didn't realise it was the '87 one. Would have added the '97 one as mandatory viewing otherwise.

I was going to add the '96 three way but after seeing him get perplexed by that Santo match I thought it would be wise to stick to singles for the time being (or in the case of Trio Fantastia/Thundercats a simple 6 man bloody brawl).


----------



## Corey

Yeah1993 said:


> I'm getting Terry v. Multifacetico sent to me (unless I bought the wrong shit), and I should get that youtube after I watch it. Ditto Terry v. Cerebro ***** from 07 which is supposedly a legit MOTYC (even with the apparently shitty finish).
> 
> Ingham you seen Blue Panther v. Villano V? I never have, but reviews are kind of mixed for it. Curious on as many opinions as possible.
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> Santo v. LA PARKA is incredibly bloody but I showed it to viva and he didn't like it very much. Be curios to see what Corey (is that your name!?) thinks of it.
> 
> WOOLCOCK gave you good recs. IDK if any of those are on level with Santo/Espanto (actually MS-1 v. Chicana definitely, and Atlantis/Villano is pretty close if not), but, again, I think Santo/Espanto is an all timer. Santo/Casas from 97 is an all timer from me too and probably better than the 87 match, but I haven't seen it a while and reviews are pretty goddamn mixed for that one.
> 
> 
> I think you should definitely watch the Santo/Dandy/Casas triangle (which has sort-of confusing rules but I'll explain them whenever you want to check it out).


MY NAME IS COREY!  Santo vs. La Parka seems like something I could totally dig since I'm familiar with both now and the words "incredibly bloody" always turn me on a little... ok that sounds kinda gross but I'm leaving it. Anyway, got a link for it?

I'll bookmark this too and if I come across the triangle match I'll ask you about the rules before watching. haha



WOOLCOCK said:


> Found my review for Santo/Espanto 8/31/86 btw:
> 
> Not seen it actually to my recollection, but likewise I've heard opinions vary from wonderful to pretty poor. Should give it a watch for the poll though so will try and get on that asap.
> 
> :mark: @ that Terry/Multifacetico news. That & the two Dandy matches would be amazing to see  .
> 
> Sheeeit was Santo/LA Parka mask/mask? Could have sworn that was just a bloody brawl. Defo watch that Jack.
> 
> Oh man, I read his review as the '97 Santo/Casas apeustas match. Didn't realise it was the '87 one. Would have added the '97 one as mandatory viewing otherwise.
> 
> I was going to add the '96 three way but after seeing him get perplexed by that Santo match I thought it would be wise to stick to singles for the time being (or in the case of Trio Fantastia/Thundercats a simple 6 man bloody brawl).


:clap at the review. Our thoughts and writeup almost mirror one another. Always wondered what Segunda Caida meant too...

'87 match would've been better with blood.  (can you tell what types of matches I enjoy?)

Santo vs. Espanto is one of those matches where my star rating just doesn't do it enough justice, hence why I see so many of you guys have shied away from them now. I kinda wanna rewatch it immediately, THAT's how much I loved it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Santo/LA PARKA (12/23/01) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCss0V0cw5A (parts 2 & 3 on the side)



> Holy christ, this is just a freakin' war from start to finish and the amount of blood spilt is just amazing. The video quality being less than stellar just added to the sleazy atmosphere that surrounded the match, both guys throw some incredible punches, Parka bumps like a fucking loony and Santo eats one of his most emphatic and engrossing bloody beatdowns in recent memory. So many awesome moments littered throughout, from Parka's insane kidney punches when he has a bloody Santo perched against the ringpost, to Santo's trademark tope which just looks like a 100mph flying headbutt which Parka does the GREATEST bump when receiving it, hell Santo's dickish low blow as Parka jumped mid air just oozed contempt and utter distain for Parka's existence. They throw some mighty stiff knees and punches, and the selling of the blood loss is sensational and plays in terrificly in the third caida with a whole host of convincing near falls. Finish was quite a brilliant dusty finish with the ref DQ'ing Santo, could have done with a more satisfying/better screwjob finish to really push this match into the stratosphere though.


Panther/Casas from last year has no blood, but they compensate by working a methodical and riveting game of human chess and given the intricate booking of the feud and both men's ability to maximise and heighten the drama in every sequence it becomes pulsating and addictive with every passing minute. Top 5 match for 2012 imo.

If you prefer blood though Santo/Villano IV vs El Hijo Solitario/Angel Blanco Jr 2/25 from TXT will be right up your alley. Sensational bloody brawl which is a lead in to a three way hair vs mask match.


----------



## Corey

WOOLCOCK said:


> Santo/LA PARKA (12/23/01) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCss0V0cw5A (parts 2 & 3 on the side)
> 
> 
> 
> Panther/Casas from last year has no blood, but they compensate by working a methodical and riveting game of human chess and given the intricate booking of the feud and both men's ability to maximise and heighten the drama in every sequence it becomes pulsating and addictive with every passing minute. Top 5 match for 2012 imo.
> 
> If you prefer blood though Santo/Villano IV vs El Hijo Solitario/Angel Blanco Jr 2/25 from TXT will be right up your alley. Sensational bloody brawl which is a lead in to a three way hair vs mask match.


:mark:

The blood thing is just a preference. I'll always take an all out war with lots of blood over a straight up wrestling match, but great is great no matter what the match type is. My example being Michaels/Jericho from Judgment Day '08, having that as their best encounter over the GAB & No Mercy matches. I'm getting off topic, but I think you know what I'm getting at here.

Out of curiosity, how did you guys see Santo vs. Espanto Jr.? Did you watch it on disc like myself? I wonder because if I'm ever put in the same position that you two are in, I'd like to be able to recommend and link the match, if this so called link does exist...


----------



## Yeah1993

WOOLCOCK said:


> Sheeeit was Santo/LA Parka mask/mask? Could have sworn that was just a bloody brawl. Defo watch that Jack.


Nah it wasn't mask/mask, but it almost felt like one. The blood in that i unbelievable. I'llupload Santo/Parka sometime. It's floating around the web, but I think it isn't full. Wait, is that link WOOLCOCK posted the full match? Wow, uploaded in 2008. How'd I miss THAT?

@Corey- I saw Santo/Espanto on DVD. I have goodhelmet's Santo comp.

--------------------

Lucha MOTYs!?

12: No idea.
11: No idea.
10: No idea.
09: No idea.
08: No idea
07: No idea
06: Navarro/Villano IV & V v. Solar/Dos Caras Jr/Heavy Metal 11/2
05: I'll watch Misionarios/Cadetes soon.
04: Santo v. Perro Jr 8/13 (ooh, Corey could have fun with this. IDR it being too bloody, but it's a badass brawl. I upped it recently - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8SK-cml364 )
03: Navarro v. Engendro 2/13
02: No idea.
01: Dandy v. Navarro or Santo v. Parka
00: Atlantis v. Villano III 3/17
99: Uh, the Cibernetico?
98: Santo v. Felino 
97: Santo v. Casas 9/19 (maybe, there's a good few)
96: Santo v. Dandy v. Casas 12/6
95: IDR which is the best AAA tag that year. Maybe 3/16?
94: Mariachi v. Panther, but I need to see Mascarita Sagrada v. Espectrito
93: Satanico v. Pirata 11/24
92: Casas v. Dandy 7/5
91: Panther v. Atlantis 9/8
90: Dandy v. Azteca 6/1
89: Dandy v. Charles 7/23
88: Santo v. Espanto 4/10
87: Santo v. Casas 7/18
86: Santo v Espanto 8/31, will watch Chicana v. Perro one day
85: Is Satanico/Masakre/MS-1 v. Atlantis/Mendoza/Ultraman from 85?
84: Satanico v. Cochisse 9/14
83: MS-1 v. Chicana 9/23

maybe. Pretty sure I have some of the dates wrong since I'm doing this by head.


----------



## Concrete

People. 

I have a life.

Respect that because I don't have enough time to watch all this damn awesomeness and keep up with this year as well as finding more random goodies. We are creating a massive friggin' problem. But really there is some awesome stuff I need to check in on. Santos vs. ***** will forever be worth watching. When I got the 92 Yearbook from GH I saw ***** vs. Santos early and I got very sad upon seeing it had no sound and was an onscreen blizzard.


----------



## Yeah1993

92 yearbook has Atlantis v. Emilio Charles Jr to look forward to; that's a goddamn fantastic match. Atlantis v. La Fiera is pretty great as well. 



The best and worst thing about wrestling is you'll never watch everything you want to.


----------



## Corey

Yeah1993 said:


> The best and worst thing about wrestling is you'll never watch everything you want to.


:clap What a quote.

-----------------------

*Hair vs. Hair
****** Casas vs. Blue Panther (_CMLL 3/2/2012_)
http://youtu.be/-PYrSPm52_g

These two guys are pretty old, but Casas looks damn good at age 52. Impressed by his overall mobility. Anyways, onto the match. Still intrigues me how different the style of a 2/3 falls match is worked in Mexico. Here in the states you primarily see the 1st fall being the longest since it's used as the basis of a regular match and it takes a while to put your opponent away, yet here in these lucha matches the first 2 falls are usually well under 10 minutes total. Much different than what I'm accustomed to. The first and 2nd fall offer a couple of nice little touches to enjoy like *****'s selling of the injured arm & the use of the basement dropkick to setup the magistral cradle. I LOVED the way the 3rd fall started with the vicious attack on Panther's leg & Casas being totally confident in getting the easy victory until he starts being locked in submissions as well. At times I did kinda feel like they were trading submissions just for the hell of it, not really looking to get a victory. Minor complaint though as they all looked good and usually transitioned into a nice counter or another submission, just wish they would've stuck with the injured arm vs. injured leg story throughout. Really liked what they did outside the ring, especially the way Panther sold that sleeper hold over the ropes like he just fucking died. Also LOVED the desperation tope suicida where (once again) Panther sells like he's dead (had to have been SERIOUSLY gassed at that point anyway) and Casas goes back to selling the left arm, which he definitely caught on the barricade. The finish was pretty creative considering I've never seen anything like that where both guys lose and they both get their heads shaved, but I wish it would've went just a liiiiiitle bit longer and the old guys took just a few more risks. Otherwise, great match but not for everyone. 

**** 3/4*


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Rey Microrráfaga, Robotman, El Averno & Vandalo, Tony Valera Jr., Ecliptico, Ultratumba vs Vital & Alessio, El Magnifico #1 & #2, Inmortal Jr, Lemorak, Mr Guerrero, Samurai de Parras #68, Lagunero Jr & Halcón Blanco 

Does anyone know who any of these guys are?


----------



## Rah

Pulled from the MotY 2012 thread:

****** Casas Vs Blue Panther (02/03/2012)*​What I loved about these two is that they've taken the annoying short-fall concept and integrated it into a meaningful aspect to the match. For instance, the first fall came in around two minutes, but it made sense. Casas knew an early fall wouldn't be as detrimental to him as fighting the Fujiwara would have been and wrestling the rest of the match one arm down. It also gave Panther a target to hone his stiff kicks and attacks on, too. Panther took a different route to Casas' submission, though, and paid for it.

I loved the beginning of the tercero caida, too. It just hit home that these guys weren't interested in anything but injuring each other and making the most out of their grudge match. That sick smile from Casas, as well as him taunting the crap out of an injured Panther is probably one of my favourite moments in wrestling this year (behind Tajiri weeping after his match with Finlay).

It was pretty weird to see an Aspuestas match end in a draw, but my guess is that they're wishing to continue milking this great feud and looking at a blow-off at one of the Anniversary shows (April or September). Exceedingly better on second viewing and definite contender for one of my final top matches of the year.

*Rating:* 4.25+


----------



## Rah

But speaking of him, I guess it's that time of year, again, when Blue Panther just shows up and gives us another great match-up.

Virus/Panther (CMLL 12/05) - swanky chain wrestling with reversal-sequences unlike anything else this year. Didn't quite like the easiness in the beginning but the rest more than made up for that. I believe it's the first time they've faced off, and I do hope it happens again. ★★★ 3/4+


----------



## Concrete

Rah said:


> But speaking of him, I guess it's that time of year, again, when Blue Panther just shows up and gives us another great match-up.
> 
> Virus/Panther (CMLL 12/05) - swanky chain wrestling with reversal-sequences unlike anything else this year. Didn't quite like the easiness in the beginning but the rest more than made up for that. I believe it's the first time they've faced off, and I do hope it happens again. ★★★ 3/4+


YES! YES! YES :mark:

I've been looking forward to this one. Virus vs. Panther! The fact that they are both 40+ is unreal with Virus being 44 and Panther being 52. Lucha springs of eternal life. I need to see this match pronto. Lighting match so quick quick quick.


----------



## 777

Rah said:


> But speaking of him, I guess it's that time of year, again, when Blue Panther just shows up and gives us another great match-up.
> 
> Virus/Panther (CMLL 12/05) - swanky chain wrestling with reversal-sequences unlike anything else this year. Didn't quite like the easiness in the beginning but the rest more than made up for that. I believe it's the first time they've faced off, and I do hope it happens again. ★★★ 3/4+


Thanks for posting this. Loved watching the leg oriented submission work that they pretty much stuck to the entire time. Something a little different.


----------



## Corey

Looking at a Mask vs. Mask compilation on Highspots. Any high praise for anything on here (besides Villano/Atlantis, I've heard that's fucking GOAT):

*DISC ONE*

Fuerza Guerrera vs. Rocky Star - Mask vs. Mask Dec. 89
El Hijo Del Santo vs. All Star - Mask vs. Mask Dec. 89
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Mr. Condor - Mask vs. Mask 1992
Villano III & Atlantis vs. Shocker & Mr Niebla - Mask vs. Mask Oct. 99
*DISC TWO*

Octagon vs. Jaque Mate - Mask vs. Mask Street Fight 1/1/00
Atlantis vs. Villano III - Mask vs. Mask 3/17/00
Mascara Sagrada vs. La Parka vs. Fishman vs. Shu El Guerrero - Mask vs. Mask vs. Mask vs. Mask 8/26/00
Arkangel vs. Angel Azteca - Mask vs. Mask 2003


----------



## 777

Better off buying the ten disc Lost Lucha set.


----------



## Obfuscation

I want to treat myself to classic Atlantis matches. Guy is one of many old vets who should hang it up today but decides he'll wrestle till he's dead. And then he'll probably wrestle some more while entering to a song by LMFAO. At least he had a linage behind him that makes it ok. I just won't watch his current work.


----------



## Yeah1993

Fuerza Guerrera vs. Rocky Star - Mask vs. Mask Dec. 89
El Hijo Del Santo vs. All Star - Mask vs. Mask Dec. 89

^^ These are continuations of the confusing-ish tag you watched. Other than that + Villano/Atlantis I don't remember watching anything else there. 


Actually I'm CERTAIN I've seen "Mascara Sagrada vs. La Parka vs. Fishman vs. Shu El Guerrero - Mask vs. Mask vs. Mask vs. Mask 8/26/00", but I thought it happened in 1995 or so. It's on youtube.


----------



## Corey

777 said:


> Better off buying the ten disc Lost Lucha set.


Eh, I'd rather not put that kinda money into something I know I'll NEVER get around to watching all of, plus it looks like a lot of tag matches (I prefer singles & a wider range of years on a comp). Appreciate the rec though. (Y)



Yeah1993 said:


> Fuerza Guerrera vs. Rocky Star - Mask vs. Mask Dec. 89
> El Hijo Del Santo vs. All Star - Mask vs. Mask Dec. 89
> 
> ^^ These are continuations of the confusing-ish tag you watched. Other than that + Villano/Atlantis I don't remember watching anything else there.
> 
> 
> Actually I'm CERTAIN I've seen "Mascara Sagrada vs. La Parka vs. Fishman vs. Shu El Guerrero - Mask vs. Mask vs. Mask vs. Mask 8/26/00", but I thought it happened in 1995 or so. It's on youtube.


I have a feeling the singles bouts would be MUCH easier to follow and I'd enjoy them more than that weird tag match. I'll probably just end up ordering this (only $15) along with the Best of Lucha in the 90s set from IVP. Certainly has to be a good introductory into the sport.


----------



## Corey

Just made my first Lucha order from IVP, looks to be 12 discs. I once again wanna thank Yeah and WOOLCOCK for all the lists and suggestions, really helped narrow down what I wanted to get. Here's my order:

Classic Lucha From the 80s Vol. 2-5 (http://new.ivpvideos2.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=classic+80s&x=0&y=0)
Best of Luchas Apuestas (http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_213&products_id=10255)
Best of Lucha Libre in the 1990s (http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?products_id=4302)

---------------------------------

On a different note, watched a tag match tonight from 1984. El Hijo Del Santo & Atlantis vs. Fuerza Guerrera & Lobo Rubio. The first fall just had some ridiculously cool shit going on for it to be 1984. You know that spot where two guys interlock their legs, get in a dual headstand and precede to slap each other (seen Dannielson, Hero, & Quack utilize it)? THEY DID THAT! In 1984! Plus there was this armdrag Del Santo would do where he would completely jump over his standing opponent and come down with the armdrag like it was effortless. So fuckin pretty. Stuff likes this makes me so excited to dive into so much more wrestling I haven't seen.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Why do they mix rudo and tecnicos in the teams at Lucha Fan Fest?


----------



## Rah

I just watched Groon XXX wrestle Joe Lider with Shocker as ref only to end with a botched finish and a Gronda run in (to Warrior's theme). Post-match promo then has cheap 80s effects and 16bit music.

Can wrestling be any worse than this?

EDIT: that's a genuine question. Can anyone recommend/nominate the worst AAA in existence, please?


----------



## Punkhead

DoradaFan said:


> Why do they mix rudo and tecnicos in the teams at Lucha Fan Fest?


Because Relevos Increibles are fun.


----------



## Corey

Rah said:


> I just watched Groon XXX wrestle Joe Lider with Shocker as ref only to end with a botched finish and a Gronda run in (to Warrior's theme). Post-match promo then has cheap 80s effects and 16bit music.
> 
> Can wrestling be any worse than this?
> 
> EDIT: that's a genuine question. Can anyone recommend/nominate the worst AAA in existence, please?


I actually did a google search of 'worst AAA matches' and it took me to a 411Mania post listing the top 5 worst gimmick matches of all time. This was on the list:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNsVUU-STaE&feature=player_embedded

5. *AAA: Cinthia Moreno, Fabi Apache, Mari Apache Vs. Jennifer Blake, Sexy Star, Velvet Sky: "Lucha a Oscuras"* - Whenever someone labels AAA founder Antonio Peña a genius, I tend to look back at this creation. Mind you, the concept is silly at best, but some versions of this match have been watchable, if not enjoyable. The concept is simple, turn off all the lights except for some neon lights, and have the luchadores put on a match in outfits that glow in the dark. In my opinion the worst of these matches occurred at Heroes Inmortales V. The match was a 3 on 3 females match, Cinthia Moreno, Fabi Apache, and Mari Apache faced Jennifer Blake, Sexy Star, and Velvet Sky. The gimmick adds absolutely nothing to the match. Sexy Star is the only one with an outfit that truly stands out visually, and the match itself is nothing special, maybe because it was hard to keep up. Mind you, the Apache sisters, who can keep up with males, don't believe me look up their match with Los Traumas, are on here. It isn't a total catastrophe, it can be a sight to see when someone like Aerostar dons full glow in the dark gear, and is flying all over the place, but this is the perfect example of a gimmick that adds nothing


----------



## 777

How is it even possible that the Apache sisters could be associated with something considered a horrible match? Their presence alone should warrant at least a two star rating. Mind you I've never seen the match in question.


----------



## Corey

*IVP - The Best of Villano III: Vol. 2*

Villano III vs. Tiger Mask - *** 3/4
_NJPW 6/4/1981

_*WWF Jr. Heavyweight Title
*Tiger Mask (c) vs. Villano III - ** 1/2
_NJPW 9/3/1982_

*Mask vs. Mask
*Villano III vs. Pegasus Kid (Chris Benoit) - *** 1/2
_UWA 11/30/1991_

*WWF Jr. Heavyweight Title
*Pegasus Kid (Chris Benoit) (c) vs. Villano III - *** 3/4 _
UWA 1/26/1992_

*Mask vs. Mask 
*Villano III vs. Atlantis - *****
_CMLL 3/17/2000_


- The two matches with Tiger Mask are on opposite ends of the spectrum. I really, really liked the first match from '81. It just felt really meaningful from the get go as Villano came out wearing a huge pink & purple head dress and Tiger Mask was literally carried to the ring by some Japanese dudes. The match itself had a nice story of Villano trying to work in a lot of the lucha style exchanges and matwork but underestimating Sayama, who in turn wows the crowd with fancy reversals and acrobatic moves. Villano is caught way off guard and gets overzelous on many occasions which made for a really fun back and forth match that looks like it should've been wrestled about 15 years in the future. If Villano was able to get more offense in and thy got another 5-10 minutes, it's a sure fire classic. Either way a good showing from both men. Their 2nd match however was pretty one sided. Villano gets hardly no offense in and jobs to Tiger Mask in relatively easy fashion. Little disappointing.

- The Benoit matches were a joy to watch for a few different reasons. One was the sheer nostalgia factor, two of the earliest Benoit matches I can recall seeing and he still already looked like a ring general. The second being that Villano was a HUGE babyface and got such a great reaction from the crowd. The mask match was good, not as good as I had imagined due to all the praise I'd read, but still good. The first fall is a long feeling out process with a lot of submission work until Benoit is able to hit a few moves and secure the pin. 2nd fall is extremely short and sees Villano catching Benoit off guard for a quick victory. HUGE pop for that. The 3rd fall was my personal favorite due to Benoit's long control segment, I just wish that would've lasted longer and Villano would have made a full comeback instead of getting somewhat of a flash victory. Still good, but not structured the way I would've liked.

- The 2nd Benoit match for the WWF Jr. Title is very similar to their first encounter. The first fall is all submissions, but these submissions seem to mean a lot more. Villano had a Figure 4 locked in for several minutes and even when Benoit made it to the ropes (as he did twice), Villano would literally drag his entire body back to the middle of the ring. So awesome. Benoit would eventually work over the back with lots of grueling submissions (Sharpshooter, bow & arrow, etc.). The way the 1st and 2nd fall went down were almost identical their Mask match, but the 3rd fall here I thought was even better. The finish to the match was an almost perfect way for Benoit to get his revenge and silence the crowd. Great stuff. Does anyone know if they had a match after this?

- Villano III vs. Atlantis, Mask vs. Mask. WOW. Where to start? An absolutely incredible atmosphere, fans cheering for both men, I'm sure out of respect, but Atlantis was the clear babyface here. At first I thought their age really started to show and some of their transitions were lookin slow as hell, but that thought was killed in an instant. The spot that created so much blood could be taken two ways; either ridiculous or genius. I personally thought it was genius. Villano hits a tope suicida to the outside but both men bump heads. It's clear you can see the ref hand Villano a blade, but I don't care, the man cut himself INSIDE of his mask, I can't imagine how much of his vision had to be impaired. Atlantis on the other hand, motherfucker bled buckets. When they finally recovered from the spot, the way Villano portrayed not having his equilibrium about him and ensued to just grab anything he could and kick & elbow it was brilliant. Literally everything from that point on was pure magic. The way Villano would essentially wanna force Atlantis to quit to any submission he locked in was great, the way Atlantis would escape and just grab whatever he could and lock in a submission of his own was even better, and some of the counters & transitions were on of a level entirely on their own. The spot where Villano has that octopus stretch locked in but Atlantis grabs an leg to transition over into a stretch muffler pinning attempt, which then led into that AMAZING show of strength with Atlantis muscling the bigger man up into another of Villano's amazing pin attempts was just breathtaking. Also the image of Atlantis having the Mexican stretch locked in and blood is just pouring out of his head all over Villano's back is mesmerizing. I thought the finish was superb. Atlantis's reaction when his grip slips out of the first attempt followed up with the overall reaction from the crowd and the commentators was beautiful, only for him to have another opportunity to lock it in and NOT let go this time as he sits down and gets the gratifying victory to an AMAZING response from the crowd. Such an emotional scene postmatch. Tears, smiles, jubilation in the crowd. I don't speak Spanish but I'm sure everything Villano was saying was full of pride and dignity, and he relinquished the mask with no displeasure. What a professional. What a match. What a performance. I bought into so many of the nearfalls in the late stages, the slow counts were NUTS. Please check this one out if you haven't. One of the best matches I've ever seen obviously. It really shows you don't have to take 4000 risks and fly all over the place to create excitement, drama, and suspense. A masterpiece. Thanks for giving it a shout, WOOLCOCK.

Villano III. I <3 this guy now...​


----------



## Yeah1993

Yeah that's probably the best match of the decade.


----------



## Corey

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah that's probably the best match of the decade.


:hb

I forgot to mention how it was SO much better due to the fact that it was just one fall. By chance know of any other great Villano III matches? Or did I just see the best of his work?


----------



## Yeah1993

Los Villanos in general are awesome as a group. I have a small bunch of Villano III on disc (and I'm getting more soon), but he's a guy who isn't known for having a great amount of matches on tape, I don't think. There's a good deal of his UWA run in 91-92, I guess. Which one day I WILL OWN. Plus the Rambo feud, which has a good 93 match I've seen and two 2001 matches that are supposedly great that I will buy sometime soon. And the 87 match which there are only clips of, methinks.


----------



## Corey

Yeah1993 said:


> Los Villanos in general are awesome as a group. I have a small bunch of Villano III on disc (and I'm getting more soon), but he's a guy who isn't known for having a great amount of matches on tape, I don't think. There's a good deal of his UWA run in 91-92, I guess. Which one day I WILL OWN. Plus the Rambo feud, which has a good 93 match I've seen and two 2001 matches that are supposedly great that I will buy sometime soon. And the 87 match which there are only clips of, methinks.


Yeah that's pretty much what I noticed when searching Youtube. The Atlantis match was on there like 12 times but not much else. Saw some stuff from 2009 but I was like woahhh, that's an old Villano.


----------



## Yeah1993

Mexican wrestlers pretty much get better with age. V3 v. Sangre Chicana from 09 is supposed to be awesome.


----------



## Corey

Well, that's the match. haha. So I may actually watch it then.


----------



## Chingo Bling

Yeah1993 said:


> Mexican wrestlers pretty much get better with age. V3 v. Sangre Chicana from 09 is supposed to be awesome.


Which is mind-boggling considering lucha is very physically demanding.

You'll see guys bumping on the apron, to the floor, dives, more frequently than in any other style.


----------



## Yeah1993

A lot of them are mostly mat-workers, too. But yeah, Mexico has the bloodiest and nuttiest brawls so the fact they even live that long is something.


----------



## Rah

I suppose finishes free from politics and booker protection was too much to ask for, right?



Spoiler:  Chilanga 19/05 show



CHILANGAMASK (SUN) 05/19/2013 Coliseo Coacalco [MT]
1) Belial b Astro Rey Jr., Relámpago (Coahuila), Aero Boy, Canelo Casas, Milanito Collection AT, Kenbai
Belial won. Aero Boy complained about being quick counted (which seemed to be teh case.)
2) Black Terry DDQ Arkángel de la Muerte
Started out as a mat wrestling battle, but Isis got involved a few minutes in. Arkangel hit the ref by mistake, Black Terry went for his mask, Skandalo ran in to help Arkangel and the Traumas made the save for Terry.
3) Valiente & Virus DQ Trauma I & Trauma II
Good mat wrestling back when Trauma I accidentally fouled Virus. challenges filed.
4) Extreme Tiger DCOR Stuka Jr., Magnifico
All three ended up outside for the draw. Tiger and Stuka challenged each other to mask matches.
5) Christina Von Eerie b Chik Tormenta
Silueta was originally scheduled, but pulled a few days before the show. Christina Von Eeire pulled Tormenta’s mask and rolled her up for the win.
6) Rey Bucanero b Masada [super libre]
Rey Bucanero was announced as replacement for Rush a few days before. They kept it on the mat to start, then graduated to bigger moves. Aero Boy got involved for the DQ.
7) Masada b Aero Boy [super libre]
Aero challenges Masada to a hardcore match and Masada accepted immediately. They had a violent match, which Masada won.
8) ***** Navarro DQ ***** Casas
Casas desperately fouled Navarro and was belatedly caught.


----------



## Yeah1993

Rah said:


> I suppose finishes free from politics and booker protection was too much to ask for, right?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler:  Chilanga 19/05 show
> 
> 
> 
> CHILANGAMASK (SUN) 05/19/2013 Coliseo Coacalco [MT]
> 1) Belial b Astro Rey Jr., Relámpago (Coahuila), Aero Boy, Canelo Casas, Milanito Collection AT, Kenbai
> Belial won. Aero Boy complained about being quick counted (which seemed to be teh case.)
> 2) Black Terry DDQ Arkángel de la Muerte
> Started out as a mat wrestling battle, but Isis got involved a few minutes in. Arkangel hit the ref by mistake, Black Terry went for his mask, Skandalo ran in to help Arkangel and the Traumas made the save for Terry.
> 3) Valiente & Virus DQ Trauma I & Trauma II
> Good mat wrestling back when Trauma I accidentally fouled Virus. challenges filed.
> 4) Extreme Tiger DCOR Stuka Jr., Magnifico
> All three ended up outside for the draw. Tiger and Stuka challenged each other to mask matches.
> 5) Christina Von Eerie b Chik Tormenta
> Silueta was originally scheduled, but pulled a few days before the show. Christina Von Eeire pulled Tormenta’s mask and rolled her up for the win.
> 6) Rey Bucanero b Masada [super libre]
> Rey Bucanero was announced as replacement for Rush a few days before. They kept it on the mat to start, then graduated to bigger moves. Aero Boy got involved for the DQ.
> 7) Masada b Aero Boy [super libre]
> Aero challenges Masada to a hardcore match and Masada accepted immediately. They had a violent match, which Masada won.
> 8) ***** Navarro DQ ***** Casas
> Casas desperately fouled Navarro and was belatedly caught.


Three matches I want to eventually see on that show and all three wind up as DQs. Wrestling hates me.












......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhCsWe0kOrE

SpongeBob and Patrick v. Buzz Lightyear. Wrestling loves me sometimes, too.


----------



## Chismo

Someone give me 5-8 of bloodiest Lucha brawls of all time, preferably from the 00s and early/mid 00s. With dem links.


----------



## Yeah1993

Most of the bloodiest brawls come from before the 2000s. Santo/Parka 12/23/01 and Atlantis/Villano 3/17/00 are bloody, though, Especially the former. Seriously. It's near Eddie/JBL-level.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

JoeRulz said:


> Someone give me 5-8 of bloodiest Lucha brawls of all time, preferably from the 00s and early/mid 00s. With dem links.


Yeah1993 covered this in saying most of the bloodiest and craziest come in the 80s and 90s. In addition to the ones he mentioned, Black Terry vs Chico Che Hair vs Hair 1/29/12 & El Hijo Del Santo/Villano IV vs El Hijo Del Solitario/Angel Blanco Jr TXT 2/25/12 are both bloody brawls. The latter far moreso than the former as everyone there bleeds profusely whereas the former to my recollection has blood but doesn't have blood soaked canvases. It has a plethora of ungodly violence though to make up for it.

Also boourns @ those fuck finishes in Terry/Arkangel, Virus/Valiente vs Traumas & Casas/Navarro.

I might watch that Buzz Lightyear match and that Suzuki/Mecha Mummy rematch Craig adores today. I need some comedy and light hearted entertaiment.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

The Terry & Boys v Gringos Locos feud from 2010 had a bunch of badass brawls. I don't remember which ones were the best now, though. I don't even think those matches are still on youtube, anyway. 

Some of the Billy Boy v Gran Apache brawls were a lot of fun as well, but nothing I'd call great.

Park/Messias is where it's at.


----------



## Yeah1993

GOD of CUNT said:


> The Terry & Boys v Gringos Locos feud from 2010 had a bunch of badass brawls. I don't remember which ones were the best now, though. I don't even think those matches are still on youtube, anyway.


Yeah, BTJr. took them off youtube (well, he made them private) and is selling each match for like $4 each. I think the 2012 matches are $6.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I recall a pretty great Cage match from IRWG in '10 involving Terry. Might very well be that Gringos feud as I recall a trios match before it where I'm pretty sure Chico Che was amazing alongside Terry. Very few of those matches remain though ever since Black Terry Jr. made them private.

I've only seen one of the Park/Mesias matches and I can't remember which one it was. Was it '11 and '12 or '10 and '11 where they had the matches? I want to say it was '11 but I really can't be sure as its been too long since I saw it and my recollection is truly horrible.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

'10 and '11 are the matches I'm talking about. Might've had one in 2012 as well, but I genuinely don't know because I've watched about 6 matches from the last two years and I've barely paid attention at all to what's been good.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Cheers Andy. I'm not even sure if they did have a match last year, I just couldn't place when the matches took place apart from one in '11. I think I had Virus/Guerrero Maya Jr as my Lucha MOTY for '11, but a rewatch of Park/Mesias might change that.

Did you ever watch Santo/Villano IV vs Solitario/Angel Blanco Jr 2/25 from TXT last year? Absolute bloodbath and truly sensational Lucha brawl. Wasn't enough to disperse Lesnar/Cena as overall MOTY, but it was comfortably no.2 .

May as well ask as well if you or Yeah1993 saw Finlay/Tajiri from SMASH 2/19? I know both of you absolutely love Tajiri and Finlay is Finlay. Best match from Japan I saw (including the most pimped New Japan bouts) last year tbh and a stellar title match. Loved the theme of Tajiri's kicks being his great asset and how Finlay altered his approach to escape them at every opportunity.

Also, in case either of you are unaware. Panther/Virus had a Lightening Match on 5/12 this year. Haven't checked it out yet but its earnt strong praise from the usual Lucha enthusiast site.


----------



## Yeah1993

The best Park/Mesias is supposedly 12/5/10. the re-match is 6/18/11 and I haven't seen either b/c I'm a dickhead. Or Finlay/Tajiri. I don't think Park and Mesias had a singles match in 2012. They had a three-way this year and when the other dude was eliminated it boiled down to a Park/Mesias singles.

Yeah I check WKO really often (being a member 'n' shit) so I know about Virus/Panther. I'll obv not watch it until I get goodhelmet's 2013 MOTYCs five years from now, though. 



WOOLCOCK said:


> Very few of those matches remain though ever since Black Terry Jr. made them private.


Oh they ALL remain, but BTJr. just wants money now. He initially made the video private because he felt he wasn't getting the appropriate amount of likes and comments (he said he'd rather get negative feedback, dislikes, etc than nothing at all) he wanted. WKO Mike invited him to WKO after that, where BTJr actually put up some matches for a few of us (I got him to make the Terry/Che matches public for a bit and I snatched them ). Then a few of us were like 'yeah we'd definitely pay money for the matches'. SO VOILA. 

you & me & GOD OF CUNT should do a bulk buy or something eventually.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Finlay/Tajiri is amazing. Confident you'd love it. KANA/Syuri from the same show is also an excellent women's match (well 'women's match' sounds a little snide, its a great match in general) and a great female take on a Fujiwara/Sayama match with the grappler vs striker dynamic.

Ah yeah, when I said 'remain' I meant as in on youtube without being hidden by Black Terry Jr. Its fair enough him wanting to make money when he knows there's a niche demand for the product and matches he has a hold of. Good to see you nabbed Terry/Che though. Would have been awful to see those matches disappear from easy access.

Me & Andy (I think he did anyway) put money towards a bulk buy with Seabs for the GH Midnight Express comp. Would definitely chip in for something in the near future. I still kick myself for not saving the Damiancito/Cicloncito link. Curse my '11 rookie self.


----------



## Yeah1993

I had Damiancito/Cicloncito on my laptop when every single fucking file I had on there got randomly hidden and I can't get them back. I lost some really cool shit from megaupload.  I hope I put the minis match on disc because if not I'll have to wait for the 97 yearbook to watch it again. Then again what he hell was the chance I'd re-watch it again before then?

Is it weird that I love Kana yet don't remember watching a Kana match? I have an Asian women bias. I might devolve into a total Joshi creep one day.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

The trios match is on dailymotion and I think you said you used a program to rip stuff from youtube/dailymotion so if its any use to you it is there. 

I know that asdf0501 dude said he had a link for Damiancito/Cicloncito on an old laptop and actually upped it either in this thread or some thread in this section a few months back, but if I recall correctly the link wouldn't play for me for whatever reason  .


----------



## Rah

JoeRulz said:


> Someone give me 5-8 of bloodiest Lucha brawls of all time, preferably from the 00s and early/mid 00s. With dem links.





WOOLCOCK said:


> In addition to the ones he mentioned, Black Terry vs Chico Che Hair vs Hair 1/29/12 & *El Hijo Del Santo/Villano IV vs El Hijo Del Solitario/Angel Blanco Jr TXT 2/25/12* are both bloody brawls. The latter far moreso than the former as everyone there bleeds profusely


A MILLION TIMES THIS.

I reviewed it in the MotY thread from last year:


> *El Hijo del Santo y Villano IV Vs El Hijo del Solitario y Ángel Blanco Jr. (TXT 25/02/2012)*
> ★★★★ 1/4 - ★★★★ 1/2
> _If you're wanting less humanity and co-operation then this is the Lucha match you need to watch - forget the Terry/Che match from the same month, too. This was a nasty, blood-filled brawl with as much disregard for having an aesthetically pleasing match as the wrestlers did for passing on Hepatitis-C to each other.
> 
> The heel work was great, with the Rudos really stepping into their own in this match serving a viciously sadistic beating onto Santo and Villano for most of the match - with Villano returning the favour with a sickening repeat chairspot. Just some amazing Topes and selling from the faces and a very, very well timed finishing spot.
> 
> That spot, damn. I loved how they just countered Santo's classic rolling senton (/Tope) with a brutal chairshot. Someone is going to die in the next iteration of this feud, mark my words. Jeez.
> 
> Not as good as the Casas/Panther Aspuestas bout but an easy second for Lucha MotY._​



They had a rematch the following month with blood aplenty, as well.



WOOLCOCK said:


> Finlay/Tajiri is amazing. Confident you'd love it. KANA/Syuri from the same show is also an excellent women's match (well 'women's match' sounds a little snide, its a great match in general) and a great female take on a Fujiwara/Sayama match with the grappler vs striker dynamic.


That show was absolute class, and so, too, was KANA/Syuri. Not only does it hold as a women's match (and help silence the sexist remarks that women cannot wrestle) but it easily punks a good majority of the male matches from 2012, as well.

Regarding Finlay/Tajiri (and as hopes in luring Yeah1993 in to watching it):



Spoiler: review



With Smash closing it's doors next month and the title being vacated immediately after the title match, Tajiri knew this was his final attempt at claiming the gold and, boy, did he sell that. 

His introduction was met with hesitance yet determined focus (as opposed to Finlay's cocky personality) on the prize that lay around Finlay's waist - this was to be his proving ground, and he knew it. I love how that showed in Tajiri's approach to the match, too. He could have gone in blazing with his strikes and kicks but he took the more grounded approach and met Finlay on a mat level - in an attempt to prove that he's just as well rounded as the Irish vet and could beat him in any game the champion would throw at him.

Some may be hesitant in watching "older" workers but it's because of their lengthy careers in the ring that allow for even the slightest of subtleties to pop up and just add that much more to the match. With Finlay's face turning a shocking purple colour when Tajiri had him in a strangle-hold (meeting him back against the post until his knuckles went Sheamus white and someone at ringside had to pull him off) and Finlay's nuances in selling the leg damage he took from Tajiri's strikes by rubbing his leg down during leg submission/rest-holds helped solidify this match as the first(?) iconic meeting of two well-respected imports (in the American industry, anyway).

The added touch of the shillelagh really helped the progression of Tajiri's determination, imo. In both mat and strike-work neither man could come up trumps and no matter what Finlay tried Tajiri's determination would simply not quit - even after a vicious shot from the shillelagh. Tajiri's body did, however - succumbing to a tombstone piledriver that placed the final exclamation mark on their epic encounter. No matter how much Tajiri tried to fight the move off , like a pig at the slaughter, he knew the ending was in sight and accepted his fate in defeat. 

If you're to watch this, _do NOT skip the post-match theatrics_ - they truly add an even greater depth to the match. Finlay pleading for Tajiri to stand up so he can shake his hand with Tajiri's lifeless body sprawled across the blood-stained mat is one of the more beautiful moments in wrestling. Aside from the feel good moment of Finlay thanking all those who kept Smash going, and promising that he will always be willingly available if Tajiri ever needs him, again, the final moments truly and iconically cemented Smash's ending. 

Tajiri - staring at Finlay as he left the arena, with tears beginning to appear as he caught sight of the title - fell onto his hands and knees, overcome with emotion, and began to openly weep in the centre of the ring, just below the company's logo. This should have ended their last show. Absolutely beautiful.







Finlay: "you've got to start from the beginning again, but listen to me, _keep wrestling classic!_" and that's exactly what these two did...






WOOLCOCK said:


> Also, in case either of you are unaware. Panther/Virus had a Lightening Match on 5/12 this year. Haven't checked it out yet but its earnt strong praise from the usual Lucha enthusiast site.



Sweet wrestling, indeed.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

WOOLCOCK said:


> Did you ever watch Santo/Villano IV vs Solitario/Angel Blanco Jr 2/25 from TXT last year? Absolute bloodbath and truly sensational Lucha brawl. Wasn't enough to disperse Lesnar/Cena as overall MOTY, but it was comfortably no.2 .
> 
> May as well ask as well if you or Yeah1993 saw Finlay/Tajiri from SMASH 2/19? I know both of you absolutely love Tajiri and Finlay is Finlay. Best match from Japan I saw (including the most pimped New Japan bouts) last year tbh and a stellar title match. Loved the theme of Tajiri's kicks being his great asset and how Finlay altered his approach to escape them at every opportunity.


Haven't watched the Santo tag or the Tajiri/Finlay match yet. I'm a scumbag.



Yeah1993 said:


> The best Park/Mesias is supposedly 12/5/10. the re-match is 6/18/11 and I haven't seen either b/c I'm a dickhead. Or Finlay/Tajiri. I don't think Park and Mesias had a singles match in 2012. They had a three-way this year and when the other dude was eliminated it boiled down to a Park/Mesias singles.
> 
> 
> you & me & GOD OF CUNT should do a bulk buy or something eventually.


I honestly don't know if I've seen the match from 2010, but the 2011 match is on the latest Schneider Comp and is my working MOTD. I thought it was incredible and Park looked like the best wrestler on earth.

I'd be up for a bulk-buy of all that stuff, btw. I just need to fix whatever it is that's wrong with my paypal account.



WOOLCOCK said:


> Me & Andy (I think he did anyway) put money towards a bulk buy with Seabs for the GH Midnight Express comp.


I actually didn't because my paypal account is fucked. It's asked me to change my password about 6 times for security purposes, but it never actually fixes anything. I haven't been able to do shit with it (other than change my password, not that it makes a difference) for about 2 months.


----------



## Chismo

Urgh, thanks everyone.


----------



## 777

GOD of CUNT said:


> I honestly don't know if I've seen the match from 2010, but the 2011 match is on the latest Schneider Comp and is my working MOTD. I thought it was incredible and Park looked like the best wrestler on earth.


Hallelujah. The greatness of the Park/Mesias feud seems to have flown under the radar of a lot of fans. I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who thought so highly of it. But I'm also biased as a Park mark.


----------



## Yeah1993

Yeah1993 said:


> I had Damiancito/Cicloncito on my laptop when every single fucking file I had on there got randomly hidden and I can't get them back. I lost some really cool shit from megaupload.  *I hope I put the minis match on disc* because if not I'll have to wait for the 97 yearbook to watch it again. Then again what he hell was the chance I'd re-watch it again before then?
> 
> Is it weird that I love Kana yet don't remember watching a Kana match? I have an Asian women bias. I might devolve into a total Joshi creep one day.


I DID!!! I HAVE IT ON DISC.

And not lucha-related, but guess fucking what? I saved all of those FUCKING Derrick King matches that were taken down from FUCKING youtube (like the feud with Frankie Tucker). Fuck, I love me sometimes.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Oh you absolute fucking saint. Tremendous.

Hopefully be watching Dandy/Angel Azteka 6/1/90 & Dandy/Satanico/Charles vs Azteka/Cruz/Atlantis 5/13/90 today.


----------



## Corey

WOOLCOCK said:


> Oh you absolute fucking saint. Tremendous.
> 
> Hopefully be watching Dandy/Angel Azteka 6/1/90 & *Dandy/Satanico/Charles vs Azteka/Cruz/Atlantis 5/13/90* today.


:hb

Just downloaded that show the other day (well 3 matches from it at least), so looking forward to the reviews. (Y)


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Both are considered two of the finest Lucha matches in history.

You should watch Atlantis/Panther '91, Dandy/Casas '92 & Dandy/Llanes '94 if you haven't already Jack. Now that you've become accustomed to the apuestas matches and brawls, seeing some of the finest worked title and singles matches which focus on the beauty of intricate Lucha chain wrestling is a must. When done poorly Lucha matwork can be an eyesore for people not familiar with the style since its done in a deliberately slower pace as opposed to the frantic reverals you might see in European chain wrestling or shoot style, however when you get two workers who know how to execute the reverals in a way that makes the slower pace more advantageous its quite stunning.


----------



## Corey

Don't worry, I've got a big shipment of Lucha coming in soon and still plenty to watch from what I've downloaded online. Truly the only Title match I've seen thus far has been Benoit vs. Villano III (which was great) but I also have Fuerza Guerrera vs. Pantera II for the Welterweight Title from 5/13/90 to watch. Once I get caught up with PWG, I'll be hopping right back onto the Lucha train. Still yet to see a famous Trios match, but they're comin!


----------



## WOOLCOCK

The famous minis trios from October '97 is on dailymotion. That and Damiancito El Guerrero/Cicloncito Ramirez from January '97 are widely considered the best minis matches ever in addition to two of the finest Lucha matches period.

A tremendous Fuerza Guerrera match is against Octagon in '91. I find it infinitely better than the Octagon/Santo vs Eddie/Barr When Worlds' Collide tag that is commonly pimped as an all time great Lucha match (I don't even think its particularly good). Fuerza in general is tremendously overlooked.

The Panther/Santo Monterrey matches from 4/9 & 5/28 in '00 are both stellar as well and up there with the best Lucha matches of the decade. 4/9 is the superior effort in my eyes but both are excellent.


----------



## Corey

What is this Monterrey place? Is it a certain company that runs there or just a famous arena where lots of good shit has taken place? haha. I see the city tossed around a lot in here and since Santo/Espanto happened there I feel like I could totally dig what else is pimped from the area.

Need to slow down with these recs man. I can only watch so much at once.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Monterrey traditionally has a reputation for some of the more bloody and classic Lucha brawls. I'm not as well versed in the entire history, but I know certain places like Arena Mexico have a no blood policy (think someone explained this is why Casas/Panther was more of a mat based match and not the typical blood crazed brawl) which isn't the case in Monterrey and which has seen it bear witness to some of the more classic Lucha matches.


----------



## Corey

Seems like it's right up my alley then. (Y)


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Monterrey also seem to have a policy where the finish to every match they run absolutely has to be garbage. I literally do not think I've seen a match from Monterrey that didn't have a bullshit finish.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Andy I don't know if you saw but some show ran Terry/Arkangel de la Muerte, Virus/Valiente vs Traumas I & II & Navarro/Casas a few days back. All three had DQ or non finishes. I don't know what sadist decided to perpetually kill my enthusiasm by shitting on every potential great match in such a manner, but such is life.


----------



## Yeah1993

Jack Evans 187 said:


> What is this Monterrey place? Is it a certain company that runs there or just a famous arena where lots of good shit has taken place? haha. I see the city tossed around a lot in here and since Santo/Espanto happened there I feel like I could totally dig what else is pimped from the area.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monterrey 

Monterrey is just a capital city in Mexico. There's an Arena there where wrestling is run a bunch. I don't think it's a company.



GOD of CUNT said:


> Monterrey also seem to have a policy where the finish to every match they run absolutely has to be garbage. I literally do not think I've seen a match from Monterrey that didn't have a bullshit finish.


I was going to mention this. Whoever runs these shows absolutely adores rudo referees and other finish bullshittery.


----------



## Corey

So I watched Dandy/Charles Jr./Satanico vs. Atlantis/Azteca/Cruz from 5/13/90 and I'm pretty confused. The first fall ended in one pinfall, the 2nd one ended in three pinfalls where all the rudos were pinned, then the 3rd fall ended... in a tie? There was one technico pinned, then a rudo (I'm not gonna look back at names ) then we got a double pin and the match was over. What am I missing here?

As for the match itself, I enjoyed it but didn't think it was anything special. There were a lot of really cool exchanges and sequences and a lot of fast paced stuff, but idk, I guess I just prefer the Southern style formula from the US more with some kind of isolation or FIP segment. There were too many frequent tags and too many pinfalls that looked far too easy. If anything though some of the sequences made me wanna see singles matches between a couple guys, in particular Emilio Charles Jr. vs. Javier Cruz & El Dandy vs. Atlantis. Have these ever happened?

EDIT: Just watched Fuerza Guerrera vs. Pantera II from the same show, loved the first fall with some compelling matwork but damn near hated the rest. Paced so slow that they wanted it to come off as meaningful and important but it just made me wanna fast forward or just end the match. Far too many submission spots where someone was in the hold for a long period of time and they'd eventually escape like it was this big turning point and both guys would sell like they were exhausted beyond belief. I just wasn't feelin it after it happens 3 or 4 more times...


----------



## Yeah1993

trios aren;t going to be for everyone, yeah. I remember thinking that particular match was amazing but not much specific about it. I have no recollection of the falls whatsoever.

Emilio v. Cruz happened on 8/30/90, but IDK if there's footage of it. Dandy/Atlantis prob would have happened somewhere, but, again, lack of a footage is a common big issue in Mexico graps.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I don't recall anything about the 5/13/90 trios either, but when I last watched it around 5 years ago I thought it was one of the best trios matches in history.

Also loved Fuerza/Pantera, which I watched around the same time. Which means I don't really remember shit about it, but Fuerza is one of my five favourite wrestlers of all time and lucha title matches are my favourite kind of match, so there wasn't much chance I wasn't going to like it. There's a point about the concessions one might have to make in order to really enjoy some lucha and the things one might have to get used to that is probably worth making here, but I'm on a phone and I really can't be bothered being the one to make that point right now.

Side note: there was a bunch of fucking awesome CMLL stuff that year. 1990 CMLL is definitely up there as arguably the best in-ring year for a promotion in history.


----------



## Yeah1993

El Dandy's 90 has to be a top five year for a wrestler, too. What's better? Flair's 85? The best Misawa and Kawada year?


----------



## Corey

Eh, I guess it's becoming apparent that some of these Lucha matches (both from 5/13/90 in particular) just aren't my style. I could definitely see someone loving Fuerza/Pantera, but I'm still unsure of what would be so amazing about the trios match. Oh well...


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Dandy's '90 is definitely top 10 at worst.

Flair's '85
Murdoch's '85
Tenryu's '93
Eddie's '05
Danielson's '06
Jumbo's '91

I'm definitely forgetting some, and I'm not necessarily saying any of those years were better than Dandy's in 1990, but they all feel like years I'd have in a top 10.

Most 90s All Japan blends together for me at this point, especially the stuff I haven't watched in close to 10 years. '90-'93 is fresher in my mind since I watched '90-'92 in the last few years and the stuff from the '93 yearbook even more recently. What are the best years Kawada and Misawa had? '93 and '96 for Kawada and '94 and '95 for Misawa? I feel pretty comfortable in saying Taue, Kobashi or Akiyama never had a better individual year than Dandy did in '90. Hansen's had a few monster years, and at least one of them is probably in the discussion for top 10, but I'd need to think more about which.

What's the best year Fujiwara had? '86? '87? He's a guy that I've always thought of as having a bunch of great years that could potentially be floating around the top 10, but it's his consistency throughout his entire career that stands out more than anything else.

Narrowing it down a bit, is Dandy's 1990 the best year of any *Mexican* wrestler in history? Do Casas or Santo have a better year? Terry's '10 was great but not better than Dandy's '90. I get the sense Damiancito/Virus in '97 would be in the discussion if I sat and watched everything of his available from that year (unless I have already, in which case I wish there was more of it). He's already a part of arguably the best trios and singles match in lucha history, and both are from that year (and I'd say they are the best trios and singles matches in lucha history). I guess by extension you have to throw Cicloncito Ramirez in there as well, then.


----------



## Corey

I'd throw Samoa Joe or AJ Styles' 2005 into the mix as well. Styles moreso but both guys were tearin shit down in TNA/ROH all year long.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

GOD of CUNT said:


> Dandy's '90 is definitely top 10 at worst.
> 
> Flair's '85
> Murdoch's '85
> Tenryu's '93
> Eddie's '05
> Danielson's '06
> Jumbo's '91
> 
> I'm definitely forgetting some, and I'm not necessarily saying any of those years were better than Dandy's in 1990, but they all feel like years I'd have in a top 10.
> 
> Most 90s All Japan blends together for me at this point, especially the stuff I haven't watched in close to 10 years. '90-'93 is fresher in my mind since I watched '90-'92 in the last few years and the stuff from the '93 yearbook even more recently. What are the best years Kawada and Misawa had? '93 and '96 for Kawada and '94 and '95 for Misawa? I feel pretty comfortable in saying Taue, Kobashi or Akiyama never had a better individual year than Dandy did in '90. Hansen's had a few monster years, and at least one of them is probably in the discussion for top 10, but I'd need to think more about which.
> 
> What's the best year Fujiwara had? '86? '87? He's a guy that I've always thought of as having a bunch of great years that could potentially be floating around the top 10, but it's his consistency throughout his entire career that stands out more than anything else.
> 
> Narrowing it down a bit, is Dandy's 1990 the best year of any *Mexican* wrestler in history? Do Casas or Santo have a better year? Terry's '10 was great but not better than Dandy's '90. I get the sense Damiancito/Virus in '97 would be in the discussion if I sat and watched everything of his available from that year (unless I have already, in which case I wish there was more of it). He's already a part of arguably the best trios and singles match in lucha history, and both are from that year (and I'd say they are the best trios and singles matches in lucha history). I guess by extension you have to throw Cicloncito Ramirez in there as well, then.


Finlay's '06 feels in contention. I recall you saying he was the only wrestler on earth that year who was contending with Danielson. Not sure if you've moved away from that view, or whether you've seen more of Danielson's '06 recently and its fresher in your mind but I'd say the 3x Benoit matches, the Hardy debut match, some of the Lashley bouts, the 3/24 Mysterio match & the Regal GAB encounter are all great matches which could elevate him into the discussion. Plus with Finlay that year it wasn't so much about the volume of great matches but rather his flawless consistency and performance in nye on every match he was apart of.

Austin's '01 feels a surefire one to at least ponder as well. He has a contender for best match in company history (vs Angle @ Summerslam), best tag match in company history (5/21 w/HHH vs Benoit & Jericho) & best TV match in company history (5/31 vs Benoit) and in addition to that has what many consider the best Wrestlemania main event of all time (vs Rock @ WM 17) and a tremendous performance himself in the match as well as some very good TV matches against Regal (hear great things about their strap match on Smackdown) & that July/August Smackdown match vs Jericho. Not necessarily saying I'd consider it a necessary inclusion, but if we're throwing out best years that feels easy to consider.

What's the best Regal year? I want to say '93-95 with his TV title run against Arn, Steamboat, Zbyszko, Johnny B Badd and the queensbury rules series vs Flair (that was '95 right?) plus he has the stellar New Japan title match vs Hashimoto from 4/16/95 and the Benoit New Japan match from '95 that is excellent as well.

Had a look at the complete and accurate Fujiwara on the segunda caida blog and '86 & '87 feel like his best years. '86 has the 2x Maeda matches from 1/10 & 2/5 as well as the 3/26 & 5/1 Gauntlet matches. '87 has his tag w/ Maeda vs Fujinami/Muta, the 5/20 Inoki singles match, w/ Inoki vs Maeda/Fujinami 9/7, vs Yamada 9/23 & of course the classic 6/9 singles vs Choshu.

Tbh my memory is pretty appalling when it comes to Lucha workers and their individual stellar years. Casas' '12 off memory felt like a contender based on what I've seen (not really sampled a true complete collection of one guy and his best year as opposed to numerous individual matches spanning several years). Agreed on Terry's '10 and maybe Navarro's '09 as being contenders without really troubling the truly elite years though.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I knew I forgot stuff.

Austin's '01 and Finlay's '06 are definite shouts. I still think Finlay was the WOTY for '06, although I'd say Danielson is closer now than I would have a year ago. 

There's a bunch of really good Navarro stuff from '09. I definitely haven't seen all of the worthwhile Navarro from that year, but I have seen practically every Dandy match on tape from 1990, and Dandy feels like he's clearly ahead. Dude had everything that year.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Finlay vs Danielson is incredibly hard to compare really. Finlay had a plethora of good-great matches weekly and a couple of classics and was always for the most part working to make the most out of very little in the way of opponents and time afforded. Conversely Danielson was in the main event as the champion working typically the longest match on every card. Finlay's three best matches (5/5, 5/21 and 11/24 vs Benoit) I'd probably take over Danielson's best in strictly '06 (Strong SOH, vs Joe FOTC & KENTA GHH Night II) but then again its a tough comparison. Danielson obviously had the demands and conventions of the Indy Style against him and its admirable that he could churn out the overwhelming consistency and depth in his matches as he managed given the opponents he typically worked and the way in which he played to the Indy tidbits whilst employing enough of the pro graps fundamentals to make them great matches.

Finlay was basically afforded more freedom and opportunity to work how he wanted and wasn't expected to be getting the same results Danielson did. Finlay worked more simple and snug and shone in numerous matches, whereas Danielson had the legitimate shoulder injury which impacted on the tail end of his title reign (IIRC he started drawing more matches and working longer seemingly for the sake of working long).

I find it hard to separate either tbh. I suppose the real triumph is we're even able to have a discussion like this and how lucky we are to have had two amazing talents rivalling the other all year long.

I recally loving a lot of the Navarro/Terry trios matches during their feud and I think a Navarro/Solar singles match turned up in '09 that was very good as well. Still, a lot of those matches blended together and its hard to recall off hand the specific great matches he had that year.


----------



## Corey

Still no love for Styles in '05 huh?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I really like the Joe match from Turning Point '05 and would happily call it one of the very few TNA matches I truly like. Others are Storm/Harris Sacrifice & IMPACT '07, Team Canada/AMW Final Resolution '05 & off memory Joe/Daniels from Impact in '06. I generally loathe the TNA style so I'm admittedly not too fond of AJ 9/10, but that Joe match is pretty wonderful.


----------



## Corey

Hmmmmm, this seems like a perfect time for me to provide YOU with a list, my friend. Have you seen any of these?:

vs. Chris Sabin vs. Petey Williams (Ultimate X, Final Resolution '05)
vs. Christopher Daniels (30 Minute Ironman, Against All Odds '05)
vs. Abyss (Steel Cage, Lockdown '05)
vs. Samoa Joe (Sacrifice '05)
vs. Christopher Daniels vs. Samoa Joe (Unbreakable '05, the one TNA fans call the best match in company history)
vs. Christopher Daniels (30 Minute Ironman, Bound For Glory '05)

The ones that I think you'd enjoy will be the Ultimate X 3-way because while it's reliant on spots like many of the matches of its type are, it has a pretty great story to get into with Styles and his injured arm as well. Really clever finish too. You should like the Lockdown match with Abyss as well because AJ plays a fantastic overmatched underdog while Abyss just destroys him at every turn. The others could all be up in the air but I'm a fan of all them would say everything on the list is ****+ (now waits for Cody to come in and say the Unbreakable 3-way sucks...)


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Seen all of them. Not a big fan of the Ultimate X three way tbh. Nothing really stuck out to me at the time and its just not something I can get into and call a great match even if I'm not blind to see why others love it. The Ironman match wasn't bad but again I just struggled to really get invested in the match since I'm not high on either Daniels or AJ. Abyss match was ok and had some very good moments that I recall, but again if I were to call it one of the better TNA matches I'd seen it would be light praise. Joe match I think I liked albeit far less than their rematch at Turning Point. Don't really care for the Unbreakable three way either. I hate triple threat matches more often than not and it feels like a collection of impressive spots just mixed together. Didn't age well when I saw it last and tbh I'm not really interested in rewatching it given I'm 99% sure I'd feel the exact same way again.

Haven't seen the BFG match but again, its not a match that I'd be wanting to check out in order to see what I thought of it. I've just learnt that I don't really care and struggle to get into the TNA style and I don't get the same enthusiasm and inclination to watch some unseen matches from the promotion unless I really get great vibes off of people I typically share a similar viewpoint with on TNA. Aries/Roode matches were pretty good last year and I really liked Park/Bully. Daniels/Styles LMS legitimately shocked me as well and is probably the only match of theirs I'd enjoy at this point given I liked it well enough last year.


----------



## Corey

Well, fair enough then. I gave it a good shot. 

TNA just hasn't been able to give us a great atmosphere or strong booking for a consistent basis so I can understand why it's tough to get invested into their matches.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Its not usually the atmosphere tbh, moreso the actual style of wrestling. I used to associate it with the Russo style of wrestling. Most guys just seemed to adopt a visually impressive signature moveset and very few seemed to sell or work their characters in a way that interests me. I mean, WWE has largely basic wrestling but I find guys there historically can get more out of very little (Cena, Finlay, Mysterio, Eddie, Punk, Regal, Bourne, Masters, Christian, Henry) as opposed to TNA where guys have an expansive moveset but the general structure and storytelling/themes never feel as apparent. I like Aries a fair bit, Bully is pretty great at actually working as a character and doing less than others but getting infinitely more out of matches and Joseph Park matches have a shocking amount of attention to detail in their setup that I'd never generally expect out of TNA.


----------



## Yeah1993

GOD of CUNT said:


> Most 90s All Japan blends together for me at this point, especially the stuff I haven't watched in close to 10 years. '90-'93 is fresher in my mind since I watched '90-'92 in the last few years and the stuff from the '93 yearbook even more recently. What are the best years Kawada and Misawa had? '93 and '96 for Kawada and '94 and '95 for Misawa? I feel pretty comfortable in saying Taue, Kobashi or Akiyama never had a better individual year than Dandy did in '90. Hansen's had a few monster years, and at least one of them is probably in the discussion for top 10, but I'd need to think more about which.


Honestly, I'm not sure what I'd call the best Misawa and Kawada years. I can motor through the 94 and 95 yearbooks that I don't own yet sometime to come to a final conclusion. 93/96 for Kawada and 94/95 for Misawa sounds about right, but I'm not completely sure Misawa's 94 is better than Kawada's.

Oh yeah I definitely don't think the other AJ guys had any year on level with Dandy's 90.




GOD of CUNT said:


> What's the best year Fujiwara had? '86? '87? He's a guy that I've always thought of as having a bunch of great years that could potentially be floating around the top 10, but it's his consistency throughout his entire career that stands out more than anything else.


He has all of the Sayama matches (other than one) in 85, so that's a pretty good shout. 86 is probably his best year off of the top my head. I'm drawing a blank on what he did in 87 other than v. Choshu. I still have to watch the 1990 UWF since he was supposedly a WOTYC that year.



GOD of CUNT said:


> Narrowing it down a bit, is Dandy's 1990 the best year of any *Mexican* wrestler in history? Do Casas or Santo have a better year? Terry's '10 was great but not better than Dandy's '90. I get the sense Damiancito/Virus in '97 would be in the discussion if I sat and watched everything of his available from that year (unless I have already, in which case I wish there was more of it). He's already a part of arguably the best trios and singles match in lucha history, and both are from that year (and I'd say they are the best trios and singles matches in lucha history). I guess by extension you have to throw Cicloncito Ramirez in there as well, then.


Santo never had a year as good as Dandy's 90, and I haven't seen one from Casas, either. When watching the 97 Santo I came out thinking Casas was the better guy in the matches so I get the idea if I tracked the 97 Casas I haven't seen down then he'd be my WOTY for 97. And 97's a pretty stacked year so being the BITW during that kind of year is really something. 



WOOLCOCK said:


> Finlay's '06 feels in contention. I recall you saying he was the only wrestler on earth that year who was contending with Danielson. Not sure if you've moved away from that view, or whether you've seen more of Danielson's '06 recently and its fresher in your mind but I'd say the 3x Benoit matches, the Hardy debut match, some of the Lashley bouts, the 3/24 Mysterio match & the Regal GAB encounter are all great matches which could elevate him into the discussion. Plus with Finlay that year it wasn't so much about the volume of great matches but rather his flawless consistency and performance in nye on every match he was apart of.
> 
> Austin's '01 feels a surefire one to at least ponder as well. He has a contender for best match in company history (vs Angle @ Summerslam), best tag match in company history (5/21 w/HHH vs Benoit & Jericho) & best TV match in company history (5/31 vs Benoit) and in addition to that has what many consider the best Wrestlemania main event of all time (vs Rock @ WM 17) and a tremendous performance himself in the match as well as some very good TV matches against Regal (hear great things about their strap match on Smackdown) & that July/August Smackdown match vs Jericho. Not necessarily saying I'd consider it a necessary inclusion, but if we're throwing out best years that feels easy to consider.
> 
> What's the best Regal year? I want to say '93-95 with his TV title run against Arn, Steamboat, Zbyszko, Johnny B Badd and the queensbury rules series vs Flair (that was '95 right?) plus he has the stellar New Japan title match vs Hashimoto from 4/16/95 and the Benoit New Japan match from '95 that is excellent as well.


Finlay and Austin had million star years, but I wouldn't think twice putting Dandy's 90 over both of them. Regal's best year to me is probably 94 (Zbyszko trilogy, matches w/ Pillman, Terry Taylor, Patriot, Mero, and Dustin, Flair Cup was that year, Arn at SuperBrawl, Regal/Austin v. Steamboat/Badd....great year), but Dandy's 90 is on a whole 'nother level.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah I've not seen enough of Dandy's '90 to draw an accurate comparison to the others.

I'd say '93 for Kawada feels a good shout. Has the 2/28 Hansen singles match which is amazing, the final encounter with Taue before they form the Holy Demon Army is considered stellar (though I'm sure I preferred their April '91 where Kawada wins with a filthy lariat) and the RWTL final w/ Taue vs Misawa & Kobashi is super. I'm sure he has other matches and performances littered throughout the year where he looked in ominious form as well.


----------



## Yeah1993

There's a few Kawada/Taue v. Kobashi/Misawas, and the best two are obviously incredible. He was still teaming with Misawa early in the year and was the best guy in each match. The 3/27 and 7/29 Misawa matches ruled the world, and yeah, I love that Taue match. There's a Kawada/Kobashi where Kawada has this INCREDIBLE headlock counter. He just PULLS out of it and KICKS Kobashi in the leg. Words don't do it justice. If that was in 93 then that, too.

Looking at it this way I'm thinking his 96 was better, even if he might have not been a better wrestler. Maybe.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I stopped giving a shit about TNA in 2006, but I actively followed it in '05. I practically seen none of that stuff since the time, but even then when I wasn't quite as much of a grumpy bastard I wouldn't have said AJ's run in '05 was close a top 10 in-ring year in history. 

'94 is probably my pick for Regal's best year as well, but after having watched about 15 discs of Regal in WCW a couple years ago I kind of went down on hisn WCW run in general. I mean, I don't think I'd say his run in '06 or '09 in WWE is better than any year he had in WCW, but I enjoy them more.

Tambura and Han in '97 are worth mentioning, too.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

*Top 10 CMLL spots of the week! I will do this every week from now!*

Watch it here!


----------



## Chingo Bling

That piledriver Sombra takes as a finish sometimes is bullshit. I think it takes away from the other guy.

Speaking of La Sombra, I'll be going to see that NJPW IC title match this Friday. I'm hoping to score a Kemonito mask too.


----------



## Rah

So Sombra finally got the shot against Nakamura, then? Good. Now all we need is for Rush/Casas to happen and I'll be so exceptionally happy.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Does anyone know of some stream were you could actually watch the CMLL matches live? I don't care if it's free or if you buy.


----------



## Punkhead

DoradaFan said:


> Does anyone know of some stream were you could actually watch the CMLL matches live? I don't care if it's free or if you buy.


http://www.livestream.com/luchalibremexicana

This link could work. I don't know.


----------



## Rah

Anyway, it is finally here!
credit: *tvcdeportesnet*

****** Navarro Vs ***** Casas*





*Virus y Valiente Vs Trauma I y Trauma II*




Esta lucha~!

*Masada Vs Rey Bucanero || Masada Vs Aero Boy*





*Black Terry Vs Arkángel (only in a "highlight" package)*





- Casas/Navarro is really fucking good, albeit coming in at 9 minutes. I do not think this is joined in progress

- Las Traumas match has beautiful matwrestling, as per usual. Valiente working to the best of his ability means Trauma I/Valiente is fap-worthy. Unfortunately it is missing parts to it.


----------



## tigermaskfan23

I recently discovered this and though it was very entertaining luckly they have them up on youtube so I can watch them. I watched the AAA Fusion they had in Japan last year where they did Reina de Reinas and Sexy Star ended up winning it. Then I watched one that was in Acapulco which was very interesting. I def. think I could get into lucha libre wrestling.


----------



## Rah

I hope so. This thread welcomes new users.

Lucha's really fun to watch. Perhaps it's not always "realistic" (as some may deem it), but the athleticism and matches are usually entertaining.


----------



## HotRhymez

so I'm sorta new to lucha libre..are there any good youtube/dailymotion channels that have matches and shows?


----------



## tigermaskfan23

Rah said:


> I hope so. This thread welcomes new users.
> 
> Lucha's really fun to watch. Perhaps it's not always "realistic" (as some may deem it), but the athleticism and matches are usually entertaining.


One thing I liked about see the one in Acapulco of AAA was they had little people wrestlers like Mini Psicosis, Mini Histeria, Mini Charley Manson and etc. And they weren't some funny gimmick like you mostly seen in american wrestling. I mean they making for such exciting matches in my opinion. I think I am starting to really like Fenix I don't know why he is interesting to me though. Also can someone please explain to me the wrestler of Pimpinella? Like is she a girl is she a man or both? Also my interest in this might make me take up spanish to get what they are saying. I have yet to watch Perros del mal but you know so many hours in the day not enough time to watch the hours and hours of lucha libre on youtube.


----------



## Yeah1993

Some male wrestlers dress womanly and act fey and all that, they're called 'exotico'.


----------



## tigermaskfan23

I see I get it now and I gotta say I like Pimpinella her character is very funny I mean I haven't laughed as hard as I did in something in wrestling like I did when I saw Pimpinella wrestle in a long time.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

HotRhymez said:


> so I'm sorta new to lucha libre..are there any good youtube/dailymotion channels that have matches and shows?


Thecubsfan
LuchaLibreMexico
Rob Viper
RexusFlexus

luchalibreaaatv
VideosOficialesCMLL


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Watch this if you want! EL SOBERANO!!


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Since I finished catching up on DragonGate and my old man is going to be visiting so we can watch TripleMania XXI I'm" guess now's a good time as ever for me to catch back up on AAA. Kind of pissed at Konnan for booking two of my favorite AAA guys in the ME just when I decided to take a break from the promotion :lol

I'm" not familiar with the storylines yet but on paper I'd rather Big Tex defend his strap against Chessman.


----------



## Punkhead

Anybody else watches AAA Fusion? I love it. It's the only wrestling show I am watching regularly right now. The minis matches are always exciting. Only thing that is wrong with it, is all the promotional videos hyping Triplemania. Could just show one video per show and add one more match. But it is really great. Highly recommended.


----------



## Rah

Yeah, the AAA minis rarely disappoint.


----------



## Punkhead

^ What do you mean?


----------



## Rah

I meant to say rarely and not really.

Did you manage to see _Dinastía, Máscarita Divina, Rey Celestial vs Mini Abismo *****, Mini Charly Manson, Mini Histeria_ from the 27th April AAA regional show?


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Do anyone know the results from Lucha Fan fest?


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> I meant to say rarely and not really.
> 
> Did you manage to see _Dinastía, Máscarita Divina, Rey Celestial vs Mini Abismo *****, Mini Charly Manson, Mini Histeria_ from the 27th April AAA regional show?


I sure did! It was great. Dinastia is feuding with Mini Abismo ***** if I get it right. Two of the best minis in the world right there. And I also really enjoyed Mini Charly Manson and Mascarita Divina in the May 29 edition. If there is one thing that AAA has always been better at than CMLL, is the minis. Sure, CMLL has/had Demus, Pequeno Warrior, Pierrothito, Pequeno Olimpico, Ultimo Dragoncito and Shockercito, but that is not that impressive as AAA's Mascarita Sagrada, Mini Abismo *****, La Parkita, Octagoncito and others.


----------



## Rah

Yep, I feel like a broken record in saying that, but the only reason I want to watch AAA is for their minis division. Though, that said, I've never given much light to AAA outside of said division. It would be great to see a mixed card between AAA and CMLL (as however unlikely that is). Mascarita Dorada and Dinastia could be a nice match.

What is the story with Texano Jr.? Lucha wiki has him as a CMLL wrestler (_"Texano appears destined to be one of the top rudos in CMLL before too long."_) yet he wrestles exclusively for AAA and is going to be the pivot point at Triplemania.


EDIT: Dorada's in WWE now. Perhaps him facing Dinastia is more likely than ever (considering WWE hiring Dinastia is more likely than a mixed promoted show).


----------



## Punkhead

As for that LuchaWiki Texano Jr. profile, stuff is not removed from profiles on LuchaWiki. If a wrestler jumps to another company, it is just mentioned at the end of the profile, that he is now a part of another promotion. When I came across Texano Jr. profile, I wanted to update it, but it was well writted by Nkhan (TheCubsFan) himself, so I just left it as it is.

And as for that mixed AAA/CMLL show, it happened sometime in the 2000s. Can't remember what year that was. I should definitely watch that when I've got time.


----------



## Rah

It just needs the last line changed to "Texano appears destined to be one of the top rudos in Mexico before too long". Or, removed altogether, if he is face/already a star.


----------



## Punkhead

I believe he's still a rudo with El Consejo. But I did edit it a little bit, if that helps.


----------



## Rah

Much better. (Y)


----------



## Chingo Bling

Went to Arena Mexico Friday night, I never thought Sombra was actually going to win. I thought the match ran short, considering who it was and what it meant, still it was very good.. Though it was the first lucha show I've been to in years so imagine me going through shock just being there. (the last one being a AAA show in 97) Really had a blast. 


Wish I could stay to see Rush v Nakamura.


----------



## Punkhead

Here's the AAA/CMLL co-promoted event I was talking about:






It happened in 2000. Still haven't watched it, but definitely will.


----------



## Rah

Wow are the fans PISSED over the ending to Mascara/Casas. That's okay, though, they'll just loudly play theme music over the crowd reactions.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Never thought i would say this about a Mascara Dorada match but it wasn't good at all in my opinion. Poor booking, no really great spots, poor selling from Casas and Mascara Dorada has not been himself at all this week. Botching and stuff... Bad shape i guess, or maybe he felt uncomfortable with his new attire.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## tigermaskfan23

Anybody watch Luche Libra USA because I just found out that Hulu Plus has that available to stream on there?


----------



## Rah

^ Nope.



DoradaFan said:


> Never thought i would say this about a Mascara Dorada match but it wasn't good at all in my opinion. Poor booking, no really great spots, poor selling from Casas and Mascara Dorada has not been himself at all this week. Botching and stuff... Bad shape i guess, or maybe he felt uncomfortable with his new attire.


I wouldn't say it was terrible, hell, or even average but I don't think it lived up to my hype for it. Their matwork was nifty and the third had some good spots but it did feel a bit eh.

I loved how Dorada botched something heavily, with the crowd bursting out in laughter, only to shut them up with an impressive leap.


----------



## Jimix

Any link for Hijo del Santo vs Espanto Jr - 31/8/1986??? I can't find it.


----------



## Corey

Jimix said:


> Any link for Hijo del Santo vs Espanto Jr - 31/8/1986??? I can't find it.


Nope, never seen it online (I looked a while back). Myself & others have only viewed it on dvd. Incredible match though.

Wanna buy it? http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?products_id=8183


----------



## Obfuscation

Minis are greatest thing about Lucha. Always and forever.


----------



## Rah

I take it you saw the CMLL minis extravaganza from this week?


----------



## Concrete

AAA is going to have TripleMania as an iPPV this year. Should I have any hope in CMLL having their anniversary show on iPPV or streaming for free cause they love people?


----------



## Obfuscation

Rah said:


> I take it you saw the CMLL minis extravaganza from this week?


Actually no. Wasn't aware there was one. 

I got to see it now.


----------



## Punkhead

Just watched Dandy/Angel Azteca match. This is one of the best matches I've ever seen. *****

Also watched Azteca/Atlantis/Cruz vs Charles/Satanico/Dandy match. It was exciting, but not as good as the first one. ****

Anything else I should see from the 80s/90s?


----------



## Corey

TomasThunder619 said:


> Just watched Dandy/Angel Azteca match. This is one of the best matches I've ever seen. *****
> 
> Also watched Azteca/Atlantis/Cruz vs Charles/Satanico/Dandy match. It was exciting, but not as good as the first one. ****
> 
> Anything else I should see from the 80s/90s?


Most folks love the shit out of Del Santo vs. ***** Casas from 7/18/87, while I thought it was just "good." You may enjoy it more. If you can somehow find it/buy it Del Santo vs. Espanto Jr. from 8/31/86 is rather amazing. Fuerza Guerrera vs. Pantera from 5/13/90 is one I wasn't that big a fan of but others seem to enjoy a lot as well.

That's about as far as my viewings go atm.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Still waiting for the Euforia tecnico turn and Soberano push. It must happen. Push Soberano, put him in a team with La Sombra & someone else vs Los Guerreros del Infierno (Euforia, Gran & Ultimo). Give Soberano - Euforia a few staredowns. Let the other guys roll them up and things like that. Ultimo & Gran would attack Soberano, rip off his mask and so on.. Euforia will turn on Los Guerreros del Infierno in favor of his son and they start a feud with Soberano & Euforia vs Ultimo & Gran Guerrero (Father & Son vs Father & Son). I think that would be awesome.

I would mark out for this, since it involves 3 of my favourite wrestlers (Euforia, Soberano & Ultimo). End the feud with a fake mask vs mask match were Soberano & Euforia win quickly. The Guerreros unmask but really under the masks are Averno & Bobby Zavala (for example). Maybe it sounds wierd i don't know but i really want to see it.


----------



## Punkhead

http://luchawiki.org/index.php?title=Top_Lucha_Matches_of_All-Time

A great link for many great lucha libre classics.


----------



## Punkhead

Just watched AAA Sin Limite. Anybody knows when it aired?

*Octagoncito, Flamita & Faby Apache vs Mini Charly Manson, Eterno & Taya Valkyrie * - great opening match. This doesn't happen very often to me in lucha, but I cheered for the rudos. Manson, Taya, Eterno. How can you not like them? Was really upset at the end 

*Jack Evans & Angelico vs Crazy Boy & Joe Lider* - I cheered for the rudos again. Really unusual show. Jack evans because I haven't seen him in a while and Angelico because I haven't seen him at all, but I heard much about his brutal ladder matches. These two made the match good for me.

*La Parka Negra, Pentagon Jr. & ? vs Escoria, ? & ?* - ? Not sure what happened there, but my TV refused to show this match. Did I miss much? I think not.


----------



## Rah

Angelico is that South African luchadore right? Please tell me he isn't still shit.

That was taped AAA Evolucion (FRI) 05/24/2013. I'm not sure which air date but I'd assume 06/06.


----------



## Punkhead

It showed some footage from 05/22 Fusion opener match, so I think it aired some time after the show. When does Sin Limite air? Thursdays? In that case this episode may have aired on 05/30. Anyway, Angelico looked great, despite some slip ups. A Angelico/Evans/Hart trio would be awesome.


----------



## TheUMBRAE

Thoughts on the Triple Mania card? Thinking on watching that instead of Payback.


----------



## Punkhead

Perro Aguayo vs Cibernetico should be a bloody brawl. Psycho Circus vs TNA guys should be a fun match. And, as always, I love TripleMania openers. They're alwas fun to watch. And I really hope Heavy Metal will win the Heavyweight title. Just for one last run.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

TheUMBRAE said:


> Thoughts on the Triple Mania card? Thinking on watching that instead of Payback.


Looks really good imo. Especially the openers.


----------



## Punkhead

As much as I love the TripleMania openers, honestly, I just don't understand what Elegido and Silver King are doing there. Also, I would just get rid of the exoticos. Either replace them with some young IWRG guys or have a tag match.


----------



## Rah

Does Cubsfan have a perverse liking for meaningless spotfests?

I don't want to seem premature, but this "great" match is wholly why Jack Evans is going to be worst worker of the year that constantly pops up in videos I watch.


----------



## Punkhead

On a side note, have any of you ever chatted with a luchador on Facebook? I asked a few luchadors a couple of questions and I never got any reply. What the hell do I have to do to get a reply from them?


----------



## Rah

Who did you try talking to?

I suppose all the worthwhile luchadores will be too bombarded by fans (who already speak proper Spanish) to not bother about us. Maybe I should annoy one of them (considering I'm bored and on study break).


----------



## Punkhead

I tried to talk to some of AAA's lower midcarders, like Nino Hamburguesa and a bunch of guys I have never heard about, like Danny Trueno. I's pretty sure they're not too busy to answer my questions.


----------



## Rah

They're pretty busy being irrelevant, if you ask me. :


----------



## Máscara Dorada

TomasThunder619 said:


> On a side note, have any of you ever chatted with a luchador on Facebook? I asked a few luchadors a couple of questions and I never got any reply. What the hell do I have to do to get a reply from them?


Soberano replied me. 

OnT: Talk Spanish? Also try make it sound like it's buisness related or whatever you say. Don't just fangasm over them because i'm sure at least the tecnicos get loads of those messages.


----------



## Punkhead

DoradaFan said:


> Soberano replied me.
> 
> OnT: Talk Spanish? Also try make it sound like it's buisness related or whatever you say. Don't just fangasm over them because i'm sure at least the tecnicos get loads of those messages.


What did you write to him? How did you start? I really want to know.


----------



## Rah

*Dr. Wagner Jr Vs LA Par-K (02/06/2013 TxT)*
LINK
★★★★ 1/4
_You get Dusty Finishers then you get this. How Wagner's at fault for body-splashing a referee who purposefully held onto Park (and fell under him), I have no idea. I also have no clue as to why the referee reluctantly counted the pin, giving the impression Wagner won only to raise Par-K's hand for the firework-infused victory. That, and Par-K's gassed performane in the third caida are legitimately the only negatives to this chaotic brawl and, even then, you could chalk up his gassed performance to being groggy after bleeding out.

When I say bleeding out I don't mean a little bit of blood. Todo X Todo's logo on the ringmat could have been painted out of Par-K's blood, that's how bad it was. But boy did it cause a great bloodlust in the rabid fans. The crowd scenes were reminiscent of golden-day ECW in how they bayed for someone's death, trying to hand the luchadores weapons and screaming for them to use them and, oh boy, did the luchadores ever. Utterly sick violence that culminated in Wagner cracking Par-K's skull three times with a beer bottle that refused to break only to smash it on the ring-ramp and cause the Muta-esque cut on Par-K's forehead by gauging away at his skin.

The CZW gusset-plate match was one thing, but this just felt more real in its violence. Like both men really did want to kill each other. Crazy._​

A good chunk of the Rush/Nakamura match is up on Cubsfan's site. It's a good way to waste 15 minutes, if anything.


----------



## Punkhead

Well, Taya Valkyrie finally replied to me, so problem solved! Apparently, she was too busy and got ton of fan mail.

I also just watched half of Sin Limite episode (no idea when it aired). The women's match was just terrible. I couldn't wait for it to end. Anybody else had the displeasure to watch Faby/Jarochita vs Mari/Hechisera (or whatever) match?


----------



## Rah

Tbh,the only Faby match I've had interest in watching was her tag with Octagoncito this week. Otherwise they've been marred by shitty wrestlers. Sure, I suppose you could say the same for Valkyrie in this trios but eh. It's much like the CMLL trios. I'd love to watch more of them but Super Porky, Maximo or Shocker decide to fuck around in the line-up and spoil things.

It's sad how The Apache sisters were wrestling Las Traumas at the beginning of the year and we got nothing more of the sort, again. Sigh.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

TomasThunder619 said:


> What did you write to him? How did you start? I really want to know.


Well, i actually got some experience getting fanmail myself since i'm a rapper. I figured people that people who want to show you something are alot more interesting than people just stopping by to tell you that you are good so i simply started with this link of a video i made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6ZhUj_98EU and asked him if he seen it. I also said the first version have 7000+ views. Later down i gave him some compliments and wished him his best and hoped he would be pushed higher up the card.

He replied to me in English that Google Translate sucks (i actually didn't use it, i'm just really crappy at grammar ). He said something i didn't fully understand, (i guess his English sucks more than my Spanish after all, lol) but it was something about that he was surprised how many people that has watched the video. He said thanks and ended with saying "Great things are coming up".


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Does the tuesday show at Arena Coliseo ever air? Ever?!


----------



## Punkhead

I need to get some things off my chest:

Sure, Antonio Pena was the mastermind behind many AAA's gimmicks, but I hate that cult of personality he has created.

Taya Valkyrie is awesome.

I love the Mexican Powers' entrance song.

I'm expecting a MOTY worthy bloody brawl between Hijo de Perro and Heavy Metal.

Eric Perez, a Mexican-born UFC fighter, will be in Octagon's corner at TripleMania, while Eric Perez, aka Eric Escobar, aka Mr. E, will wrestle for Tag Team titles. Interesting.


----------



## Punkhead

TripleMania XXI is today. Anybody bought it?


----------



## 777

I'll be watching, psyched.


----------



## Yeah1993

Is LA park doing anything on the show?


----------



## Punkhead

Yeah1993 said:


> Is LA park doing anything on the show?


6) Electroshock, La Parka, Octagón vs Máscara Año 2000, Universo 2000, Villano IV

I don't see Parka Negra anywhere, though.


----------



## Concrete

Little short notice but since I'm not sold on Triplemania XXI. Anyone up to the task of telling me why to get this show.


----------



## 777

Yeah1993 said:


> Is LA park doing anything on the show?


Much to my chagrin, Park left the promotion back in April to freelance.


----------



## Concrete

Trying to watch Triplemania. Anyone know what to do about this password thingy?


----------



## 777

Technical difficulties are holding up the stream apparently.

Edit: Pretty miffed. Ustream ippv never got off the ground. Will have to look into getting my money back.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

^You should be able to get your refund back I got mine. In addition, they've uploaded the entire show on their YT page (luchalibreaaa) for free in case anyone wants to check it out.
_______________

*El Hijo del Perro Aguayo vs. Cibernetico (6/16/2013)-****+*
-Man Perro is getting chunky :lol anyways, fantastic bloody brawl featuring two of my favorites. They threw bombs from the get go and played to each other’s strengths with, as expected, Aguayo Jr. controlling the pacing. Lots of chaos with Nicho and Daga constantly employing their gang tactics on Ciber and Ciber working from behind to fend off Los Perros. Lot of guys went through tables (poor Medic), lots of chair shots and lots of drama down the stretch with a great finish. Cibernetico cuts his trademark long hair  Despite his broken body, Cibernetico is still awesome and Aguayo Jr. continues to be the best thing in Mexico (he’s above the belt at this point IMO).


----------



## Punkhead

Yeah, Cibernetico/Hijo de Perro was a great bloody brawl as I was expecting. By far, best match on the card. I'd give it ****1/2.


----------



## flag sabbath

Thanks for the links guys. Just watched Cibernetico vs. Aguayo & aside from some dramatic near-falls down the stretch, I thought it was an overbooked mess - murky heel / face dynamic, interference & ref-bumps a-go-go, wafer-thin tables & boards, and some really clunky set-ups. To each their own I guess.


----------



## Rah

Only 240P quality for Triplemania? Sigh. I'd have thought AAA would, at least, put up a semi-decent quality as a penance.

Edit: I stopped watching a few minutes into that main. I refuse to watch something where Cibernético simply stands there as Perro and his lackeys set up flimsy tables and then have said lackeys stand around in a "dazed stupor" so Cibernético can make the come back. I'm sure the brawling will be somewhat decent but just no.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

*@Rah & Sabbath*
I understand your qualms with the match as it's not for everyone but for what they set out to do I really enjoyed it, probably blinded by markdom :lol.


----------



## Rah

Like I say, I'm sure the actual match (outside of lelAAA booking) was good, I won't deny it. If you enjoy that, however, you should watch the La Par-K brawl I pimped.

SOMEONE WATCH IT PLEASE.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Rah said:


> Like I say, I'm sure the actual match (outside of lelAAA booking) was good, I won't deny it. If you enjoy that, however, *you should watch the La Par-K brawl I pimped.
> 
> SOMEONE WATCH IT PLEASE.*


Sure thing will watch when I get off of work.


----------



## flag sabbath

Rah said:


> Like I say, I'm sure the actual match (outside of lelAAA booking) was good, I won't deny it. If you enjoy that, however, you should watch the La Par-K brawl I pimped.
> 
> SOMEONE WATCH IT PLEASE.


Yeah, I watched that last week sometime & I'm struggling to remember much beyond the futile attempts to stem Park-K's gusher with a sliver of bandage. I do recall it having the feel of an '80s territorial grudge match, from the atmosphere & video quality to the pacing & down-home brawling style. Oh shit, now I remember.... that finish :frustrate


----------



## Rah

That finish.

If someone can make logical sense of it, I'd be amazed.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Rah said:


> *Dr. Wagner Jr Vs LA Par-K (02/06/2013 TxT)*
> LINK
> ★★★★ 1/4
> _You get Dusty Finishers then you get this. How Wagner's at fault for body-splashing a referee who purposefully held onto Park (and fell under him), I have no idea. I also have no clue as to why the referee reluctantly counted the pin, giving the impression Wagner won only to raise Par-K's hand for the firework-infused victory. That, and Par-K's gassed performane in the third caida are legitimately the only negatives to this chaotic brawl and, even then, you could chalk up his gassed performance to being groggy after bleeding out.
> 
> When I say bleeding out I don't mean a little bit of blood. Todo X Todo's logo on the ringmat could have been painted out of Par-K's blood, that's how bad it was. But boy did it cause a great bloodlust in the rabid fans. The crowd scenes were reminiscent of golden-day ECW in how they bayed for someone's death, trying to hand the luchadores weapons and screaming for them to use them and, oh boy, did the luchadores ever. Utterly sick violence that culminated in Wagner cracking Par-K's skull three times with a beer bottle that refused to break only to smash it on the ring-ramp and cause the Muta-esque cut on Par-K's forehead by gauging away at his skin.
> 
> The CZW gusset-plate match was one thing, but this just felt more real in its violence. Like both men really did want to kill each other. Crazy._​


Checked this out and boy was it disgusting, it definitely had that old school vibe down to a tee. Wagner Jr. was absolutely sick in this match, he damn near maimed poor LA ParK. The drama was high and they worked at a chaotic yet good pace but I'd be lying if they didn't lose me towards the end with the shenanigans. Overall, great stuff probably ***+ from me.


----------



## Rah

*Dinastía, El Elegido, Faby Apache, Pimpinela Escarlata Vs Mamba, Mini Abismo *****, Silver King, Taya Valkyrie*
DUD
_Flamer gimmicks are possibly a dime-a-dozen, especially so in Mexico. The indies have plenty of talentless exoticos but AAA struck gold with Pimpinela. If you've seen him before then you can imagine when I say that this match was as bad as he is. Utter throw-away with only Fabi seemingly caring in the sense that she just kicked the fuck out of Taya when she hit a shit body splash and decided to end things. MINUS STARS._


34 minutes in and we've only watched a 10 minute match. The first twenty minutes was filled with pointless music and ring girls walking to the ring with a giant banner of Pena's face. TWENTY MINUTES. A further six minutes of worthless music playing through a darkened arena and we're taken to the next match. I can't believe I have four more hours of this shit to watch.


#1 Contenders for the AAA World Heavyweight Championship
*Heavy Metal Vs Chessman*
★ 3/4
_This is meant to be a #1 Contender's match for a title fight later in the night yet all it had was Chessman beating on Heavy Metal for ten minutes straight only to lose to a roll-up following ONE mistimed dive. The worst part of it is that Chessman actually had his shoulder up the entire time. A pint-sized midget being strapped to a normal-sized stretcher while all of this happens is seemingly par for the course._


So far the opening Pena segment was longer than both matches combined.


For the vacant AAA World Tag Team Championship
*Crazy Boy & Joe Lider Vs Angélico & Jack Evans Vs Drago & Fénix Vs Daga & Psicosis Vs Mr. E & Sexy B*
3/4 ★
_The two White trash "rappers" doing a live performance of Fénix' theme can't even sync themselves with one another. Aside from that, this match is a single-fall bout yet elimination tag, as well. If you wish to know why I loathe Jack Evans and am so happy Angelico is no longer living in my country then watch this match. Every opposing member lies in a nice, stacked pile (for no reason) in the middle of the ring for Evans to do a backflip off and then on to. This was, honestly, business exposingly terrible at times. Worth it only for some of the wrestlers trying their damndest to save this match, an obese man pulling a cheeseburger out his pants and eating it before hitting a suicide dive and, lastly, to see Psicosis get so pissed off that he unmasks himself, throws his gear on to the floor and shoves a camera man._


I'd say Vampiro and Konnan's breakdown over-shadowed the tag title win, but I doubt anyone cares enough at this point for that to mean much. Konnan/Vampiro in 2013 is just more of a focal point, evidently.


*Monster Clown, Murder Clown & Psycho Clown Vs Jeff Jarrett, Matt Morgan and Monster Pain*
*DUD*
_I'm starting to wonder if anyone in AAA is actually caring for this event. First the graphic listed him as Jach Evans, now it's apparently too much effort to write down their actual name so the clowns are now called "Circus". Not Psycho Circus, just Circus.

As for the match, it wasn't even one. It was just 10 minutes of shenanigans which ended in a sudden flurry of confusion. Most probably so because Karen's tits fell out and distracted everyone involved._


The match is followed by five minutes of literally nothing. Nothing but the camera staring into a dark arena.


AAA World Heavyweight Championship
*Texano Jr. Vs Heavy Metal*
★★ 1/2 (?)
_I missed half of this but from what I saw the quality was okay. The fact that the #1 Contender match and the title match both took less than a cumulative 25 minutes, however, is worrying. This is, after all, your world title._


Ray Fat Fuck Mendoza Jr. came out to challenge Texano for the title, but asked for a reprieve in the date accounting for him needing training considering he is obese retired. This was followed by more nothingness and a short induction of Abismo ***** into the Hall of Fame. A commentator let out a completely random "AAAAH" during this presentation and I can't help but feel that should be the promotion's name going forward.


AAA Latin American Championship
*El Mesías Vs Blue Demon Jr.*
N/R
_The crowd did not care for this nor should I. Blue Demon Jr. is terrible._


La Par-K makes a return to AAA to cut a promo saying that he is leaving. Well, okay? Despite Blue Demon winning the title, and La Par-K's "departure", they play El Mesias' music. Why? Because it's AAA.


*Dr. Wagner Jr., Electroshock, La Parka, Octagón Vs Canek, Máscara Año 2000, Universo 2000, Villano IV*
-★★★★★
_It's pretty weird to know that I watched an entire show dedicated to Villano IV retiring not even two months ago. Since then he not only continues to wrestle but employs the equally "retired" Rey Mendoza Jr. as a body double whenever he double books himself. Considering Rey made an appearance earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if this was Rey.

Octagon truly was an enigma. At one point he was meant to attack Dorian but midway through he just stops and walks away. I actually don't blame Octagon for walking around his opponents and standing in the middle of the action with a blank body expression, staring into the distance, and doing nothing until everyone else was down and he had to keep the match going. This was terrible. I realise that these luchadores are abysmal (Wagner gets a by, as he is good) but to mark this firstly as a legends tag and then let this go on for so long, with that booking, is just incredibly stupid. I wouldn't hesitate in calling this the worst match I've ever watched._


Caballero y Caballero
*Cibernético Vs el Hijo del Perro Aguayo*
★ 3/4
_I enjoyed this a bit more than the first watch, but there's still no denying how utterly poor this was from a critical perspective. Entertaining, as well as engaging, but nothing more than that._​
*Overall Thoughts:* It's probably a good thing that Ustream failed to air this iPPV as I couldn't imagine anyone paying for this show. It's utterly terrible from start to finish with only a single match coming in at passable. At four and a half hours it's also too tedious for a single sitting, especially when the matches do not even make a good portion of the alloted time. Logic, technical aspects, booking and wrestling all came to die in one heap of a car crash, here, and I'll be damned if I ever have to sit through something as mindfuckingly terrible as this, again. Avoid at _all_ costs


----------



## PERFECTSHOW

Rah said:


> *Dinastía, El Elegido, Faby Apache, Pimpinela Escarlata Vs Mamba, Mini Abismo *****, Silver King, Taya Valkyrie*
> DUD
> _Flamer gimmicks are possibly a dime-a-dozen, especially so in Mexico. The indies have plenty of talentless exoticos but AAA struck gold with Pimpinela. If you've seen him before then you can imagine when I say that this match was as bad as he is. Utter throw-away with only Fabi seemingly caring in the sense that she just kicked the fuck out of Taya when she hit a shit body splash and decided to end things. MINUS STARS._
> 
> 
> 34 minutes in and we've only watched a 10 minute match. The first twenty minutes was filled with pointless music and ring girls walking to the ring with a giant banner of Pena's face. TWENTY MINUTES. A further six minutes of worthless music playing through a darkened arena and we're taken to the next match. I can't believe I have four more hours of this shit to watch.
> 
> 
> #1 Contenders for the AAA World Heavyweight Championship
> *Heavy Metal Vs Chessman*
> ★ 3/4
> _This is meant to be a #1 Contender's match for a title fight later in the night yet all it had was Chessman beating on Heavy Metal for ten minutes straight only to lose to a roll-up following ONE mistimed dive. The worst part of it is that Chessman actually had his shoulder up the entire time. A pint-sized midget being strapped to a normal-sized stretcher while all of this happens is seemingly par for the course._
> 
> 
> So far the opening Pena segment was longer than both matches combined.
> 
> 
> For the vacant AAA World Tag Team Championship
> *Crazy Boy & Joe Lider Vs Angélico & Jack Evans Vs Drago & Fénix Vs Daga & Psicosis Vs Mr. E & Sexy B*
> 3/4 ★
> _The two White trash "rappers" doing a live performance of Fénix' theme can't even sync themselves with one another. Aside from that, this match is a single-fall bout yet elimination tag, as well. If you wish to know why I loathe Jack Evans and am so happy Angelico is no longer living in my country then watch this match. Every opposing member lies in a nice, stacked pile (for no reason) in the middle of the ring for Evans to do a backflip off and then on to. This was, honestly, business exposingly terrible at times. Worth it only for some of the wrestlers trying their damndest to save this match, an obese man pulling a cheeseburger out his pants and eating it before hitting a suicide dive and, lastly, to see Psicosis get so pissed off that he unmasks himself, throws his gear on to the floor and shoves a camera man._
> 
> 
> I'd say Vampiro and Konnan's breakdown over-shadowed the tag title win, but I doubt anyone cares enough at this point for that to mean much. Konnan/Vampiro in 2013 is just more of a focal point, evidently.
> 
> 
> *Monster Clown, Murder Clown & Psycho Clown Vs Jeff Jarrett, Matt Morgan and Monster Pain*
> *DUD*
> _I'm starting to wonder if anyone in AAA is actually caring for this event. First the graphic listed him as Jach Evans, now it's apparently too much effort to write down their actual name so the clowns are now called "Circus". Not Psycho Circus, just Circus.
> 
> As for the match, it wasn't even one. It was just 10 minutes of shenanigans which ended in a sudden flurry of confusion. Most probably so because Karen's tits fell out and distracted everyone involved._
> 
> 
> The match is followed by five minutes of literally nothing. Nothing but the camera staring into a dark arena.
> 
> 
> AAA World Heavyweight Championship
> *Texano Jr. Vs Heavy Metal*
> ★★ 1/2 (?)
> _I missed half of this but from what I saw the quality was okay. The fact that the #1 Contender match and the title match both took less than a cumulative 25 minutes, however, is worrying. This is, after all, your world title._
> 
> 
> Ray Fat Fuck Mendoza Jr. came out to challenge Texano for the title, but asked for a reprieve in the date accounting for him needing training considering he is obese retired. This was followed by more nothingness and a short induction of Abismo ***** into the Hall of Fame. A commentator let out a completely random "AAAAH" during this presentation and I can't help but feel that should be the promotion's name going forward.
> 
> 
> AAA Latin American Championship
> *El Mesías Vs Blue Demon Jr.*
> N/R
> _The crowd did not care for this nor should I. Blue Demon Jr. is terrible._
> 
> 
> La Par-K makes a return to AAA to cut a promo saying that he is leaving. Well, okay? Despite Blue Demon winning the title, and La Par-K's "departure", they play El Mesias' music. Why? Because it's AAA.
> 
> 
> *Dr. Wagner Jr., Electroshock, La Parka, Octagón Vs Canek, Máscara Año 2000, Universo 2000, Villano IV*
> -★★★★★
> _It's pretty weird to know that I watched an entire show dedicated to Villano IV retiring not even two months ago. Since then he not only continues to wrestle but employs the equally "retired" Rey Mendoza Jr. as a body double whenever he double books himself. Considering Rey made an appearance earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if this was Rey.
> 
> Octagon truly was an enigma. At one point he was meant to attack Dorian but midway through he just stops and walks away. I actually don't blame Octagon for walking around his opponents and standing in the middle of the action with a blank body expression, staring into the distance, and doing nothing until everyone else was down and he had to keep the match going. This was terrible. I realise that these luchadores are abysmal (Wagner gets a by, as he is good) but to mark this firstly as a legends tag and then let this go on for so long, with that booking, is just incredibly stupid. I wouldn't hesitate in calling this the worst match I've ever watched._
> 
> 
> Caballero y Caballero
> *Cibernético Vs el Hijo del Perro Aguayo*
> ★ 3/4
> _I enjoyed this a bit more than the first watch, but there's still no denying how utterly poor this was from a critical perspective. Entertaining, as well as engaging, but nothing more than that._​
> *Overall Thoughts:* It's probably a good thing that Ustream failed to air this iPPV as I couldn't imagine anyone paying for this show. It's utterly terrible from start to finish with only a single match coming in at passable. At four and a half hours it's also too tedious for a single sitting, especially when the matches do not even make a good portion of the alloted time. Logic, technical aspects, booking and wrestling all came to die in one heap of a car crash, here, and I'll be damned if I ever have to sit through something as mindfuckingly terrible as this, again. Avoid at _all_ costs


A brutally honest review. It took me not one, but three whole sittings, not to mention skipping past the 20+ minute intro & Vamp/Konnan promo. I think I typically enjoyed a few of the matches a bit more, as I thought the main event was actually quit good, as well as Heavy Metal vs. Texano Jr. I was so confused by the whole trans gimick thing in the first match as was my GF, we where both like "WTF" it was fun in an what the hell am I watching kind of way though. The tag match I thought was good in spots but the elimination rules confused the crap out of me & I had a difficult time following the action. Everything else was pretty bad, the 8 man lucha legends match may have been fine as a 10 min. match but dragged unbelievably long, Dr. Wagner & La Parka dancing saved it from being a DUD, but just barely...here is my overview for the entire card.

AAA TRIPLEMANIA XXI 2013

Dinastia, El Elegido, Apache & Escarlata vs. Mamba, Mini ***** Abismo, Silver King & Taya Valkyrie - 8-Man Mixed Tag-Team Match (*)

Chessman vs. Heavy Metal (**)

Angelico & Jack Evens vs. Drago & Phoenix vs. Los Mamitos vs. Perros del Mal vs. The Mexican Powers - [VACANT] AAA World Tag-Team Championship - 5-Way Elimination Match (**¾)

Jeff Jerrett, Matt Morgan & Monster Pain vs. The Psycho Clowns (¾*)

Blue Demon Jr. vs. Mesias - [VACANT] AAA Latin American Championship (**)

Heavy Metal vs. Texano Jr. © - AAA World Heavyweight Championship (***½)

Dr. Wagner Jr., Electroshock, La Parka & Octagon vs. El Canek, Mascara Ano 2000, Universo 2000 & Villano IV - 8-Man Tag-Team Match (*¼)

Cibernetico vs. Perro Aguayo Jr. - Hair vs. Hair Match (****)

OVERALL: 4.5/10

Probably one of the worst wrestling cards I have seen in years, it wasnt Legends of Wrestling bad, but this PPV will hold a very "special" place in my heart as one of the greatest disappointments in wrestling.


----------



## 777

Fuck ya'll. I loved the show. Loads of fun. If you were looking for great technical wrestling AAA probably isn't the place to be searching for it. They've been great proponents of the entertainment aspect of wrestling/lucha.


----------



## Rah

I don't require good wrestling to enjoy a product. I wouldn't mind being entertained but nothing here did that. The tributes went on far too long, Konnan/Vampiro should not be teased in 2013, the legends tag was disgustingly awful and there were pointless camera shots of nothing throughout.

If they wish to entertain me (and AAA does) let Dinastia, Faby and Abismo ***** work alone or, at least, get some exoticos that do not rely on blatant homophobia (and tired gags) to get their story across. Give me spotfests that aren't stupid (AAA does this well). Write intelligently booked angles or reasons for matches to end iffy. I'm sorry, but this card was worse than most Be The Booker events found on this forum.

The term "Russo booking" gets thrown around a lot, but I don't think anything can be more apt. It's almost funny that Máscara Año Dos Mil looks like an older Russo, too:









If you enjoyed it, then that's fine. You got your money's worth, and that's all that matters.



PERFECTSHOW said:


> I was so confused by the whole trans gimick thing in the first match as was my GF, we where both like "WTF" it was fun in an what the hell am I watching kind of way though.


That's how my friend and I felt watching the Legends tag. Octagon's suicidal ambivalence and Dorian's fuckery were the only things that saved the event from being cut short.


----------



## Rah

Those are some top-dollar names.

The match I'm interested in, though, is Brental Bright Vs Adam Pearce Shirt.


----------



## pgi86

You do realize this poster is from several years ago, right?


----------



## Punkhead

That's from 2008, though.


----------



## Rah

pgi86 said:


> You do realize this poster is from several years ago, right?


You do realise I'm rather pointing out the absolutely awful spelling, right?


----------



## pgi86

Rah said:


> You do realise I'm rather pointing out the absolutely awful spelling, right?


Yeah, I do. What I don't realize is why you're pointing it out now, five years after it hit the net.


----------



## Rah

Because I only saw this today and thought I'd post it?


----------



## C-Cool

Yeah, this year's Triplemania couldn't even be saved by a good Texano Jr. performance or the main event. That whole event was screwed up. From the owner, to the wrestlers, to the hired entertainers, to the guest "rappers", to the video production, even the stupid circus performers for the Psycho Circus screwed up (Some dude didn't even know how to ride a unicycle. You had one job, fool). The sloppiness in that organization just showed up in the worst way. 

So, yeah, I'm sticking to CMLL and a few others online.


----------



## Punkhead

AAA is currently uploading TripleMania in HD to Youtube.


----------



## Rah

NOW it happens.


----------



## Chingo Bling

I stopped watching after the LA Park promo. amd after rewinding that spot with the midget. lol 

I thought the Demon/Mesias was pretty decent, but it might have been that just everything else made it look better than it actually was.

One more thing Psycosis/Nicho first time Ive seen him in years, and he is just awful. The worst. He's making a fool of himself.


----------



## Rah

Same could be said for The Mexicool members, as a whole:


----------



## Punkhead

Cibernetico is wearing his mask again.



> Cibernetico came out wearing his mask. That’s usually the set up to someone pulling the mask off to reveal a bald head during the match, and maybe that’s what Cibernetico told people he was doing. Instead, he just wrestled in his mask the whole match. Cibernetico explained after that it’s been over five years since he lost his mask so he should be allowed and, if the commission wants to do something about it, they should do something about Silver King and Psicosis first. He has a point; lucha libre is better when people who lose their mask never get to wear it again, but forcing the issue to create some consistency is a good as well. The commission probably won’t do anything, or anything we’ll hear about. I don’t think this will carry over to AAA TV.


----------



## Rah

Like Black Man. He's been in six mask matches and lost three.

Looking up random aspuestas matches and this apparently happened:


> Wager: Hair
> Winner: Eddy Guerrero
> Loser: ***** Casas
> Location: Juarez, Chihuahua
> Date: 1400s


Aside from the obnoxious date, Youtube does indicate this pairing happened but I cannot find a full match. Has anyone seen it?


----------



## Yeah1993

Checked Casas and Eddy's pages on LuchaWiki and all it says on their Apeustas records in the date section is the match happened in the 80s. I'd be surprised if there was any footage of it, let alone a full match. You never know, I guess. Something could pop up.


----------



## Darren Marshall

Hi everybody!
I have one question, if i want to start watch the CMLL how i can do? They have a weekly show or what? 
Thanks


----------



## Punkhead

Darren Marshall said:


> Hi everybody!
> I have one question, if i want to start watch the CMLL how i can do? They have a weekly show or what?
> Thanks


TheCubsFan uploads CMLL shows on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyTRLPauncBCj5DSFED169g


----------



## Darren Marshall

TomasThunder619 said:


> TheCubsFan uploads CMLL shows on Youtube:


Thanks man 

You can explain to me how work the CMLL?


----------



## Punkhead

Darren Marshall said:


> Thanks man
> 
> You can explain to me how work the CMLL?


What exactly do you want to know?

P. S. What country are you from?


----------



## Darren Marshall

TomasThunder619 said:


> What exactly do you want to know?
> 
> P. S. What country are you from?


I want to know if they have weekly shows or PPV.

I'm from Italy, sorry for my bad english


----------



## Punkhead

Darren Marshall said:


> I want to know if they have weekly shows or PPV.
> 
> I'm from Italy, sorry for my bad english


They have 3 or 4 shows a week. A different show for each channel. CMLL also has 3 or 4 PPVs a year, plus other different arena or wrestler anniversary shows.


----------



## Darren Marshall

TomasThunder619 said:


> They have 3 or 4 shows a week. A different show for each channel. CMLL also has 3 or 4 PPVs a year, plus other different arena or wrestler anniversary shows.


Thank you!


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> Like Black Man. He's been in six mask matches and lost three.
> 
> Looking up random aspuestas matches and this apparently happened:
> 
> 
> Aside from the obnoxious date, Youtube does indicate this pairing happened but I cannot find a full match. Has anyone seen it?





Yeah1993 said:


> Checked Casas and Eddy's pages on LuchaWiki and all it says on their Apeustas records in the date section is the match happened in the 80s. I'd be surprised if there was any footage of it, let alone a full match. You never know, I guess. Something could pop up.


I emailed thecubsfan about this and here's what he said:



> The Eddie/***** feud was said to have taken place in Juarez, but no one's ever been able to track down footage of it. Years ago, someone popped up on a board and said they had all these Juarez tapes, that included, but then vanished once everyone asked to buy them. We weren't sure if they ever really existed, and don't expect to ever get to see them.


It doesn't seem like there's a chance of finding that footage anywhere, considering it s unclear whether these tapes even exist.


----------



## Yeah1993

Yeah, the LuchaWiki pages said they happened in Juarez as well. The thing with the dude and the tapes is something to hear. There's always a chance he was full of it, but it's not impossible that one day a guy with the right footage will be willing to sell the stuff.


----------



## Rah

I wouldn't be surprised if the poster is tucking them away for a later date. I can quite see those tapes making much more money once Casas has retired/died. Holding thumbs, I suppose.


----------



## Punkhead

Or he was just lying and he doesn't even have any of those tapes. I hope not.


----------



## Punkhead

Just watched Mistico vs Ultimo Guerrero from February 2005. Can anybody explain to me why exactly was Guerrero disqualified in the first fall?


----------



## Máscara Dorada

http://imageshack.us/f/200/s6xs.jpg/

Just thought i'd post this picture of Euforia from CMLL (left), his son El Soberano from CMLL (middle) and Euforias brother from indys El Hijo de Soberano (right).

At this time Euforia was Soberano Jr.


----------



## Rah

Doesn't look like he's aged much. :


----------



## Rah

*CMLL Vs AAA: Evento Padrisimo (17/06/2000)*










*Cobarde, El Texano y Sangre Chicana (AAA) Vs Olímpico, Mr. Niebla y Emilio Charles Jr (CMLL)*
** 1/2
_This was everything it was meant to be. This co-promoted show was the result of two invasion attempts by both companies on each other and this match was to merely push their feud. Both sides threw in spots in trying to get over their company as superior until it, ultimately, devolved into a mess of a brawl. Good start._


*Satánico, Ultimo Guerrero y Rey Bucanero (los grandes infernales CMLL) VS Tarzan Boy, Héctor Garza y Latin Lover (AAA)*
**
_I'm pretty positive the announcer name-dropped Davey Richards as Tarzan Boy came out. I can understand why they booked this as such but it just felt cheap. "Davey Richards" awarded his CMLL brethren the win only to have Pepe Casas (AAA's chosen referee) restart the match under the pretense that the pin was nullified by a rope-break. Seconds after the restart the AAA guys pick up a quick win, much to the crowd's anger, and pose off with the CMLL guys in trying to curry favour with their respective fans. Clusterfuck levels._


*Electroshock, Bestia Salvaje y Pirata Morgan (AAA) VS Felino, Heavy Metal y ***** Casas (CMLL)*
** 1/4
_I did not care for any of this until Tirantes stiffed the hell out of Pepe Casas and started a referee feud mid-match. Screw promotion loyalty in co-held shows, if you're refereeing a match with your family, they come first, evidently._


Combinación de elementos
*La Parka Jr., Octagon, Súper Porky y Rayo de Jalisco (AAA) VS Shocker, Pierroth, Abismo ***** y Cibernético (CMLL)*
DUD
_The scene begins with the CMLL guys arguing over who should be team captain with Shocker getting increasingly angry in his argument. Of course, for the AAA guys, it's a foregone conclusion that Rayo De Jalisco would not only be billed as an idol but as captain, as well. As for the match, it pretty much goes how you would expect it to. Throw around some terrible wrestling, no-selling and a screwed-up "finish" and you've produced a Mexican co-promotion event. Still the brawl that this degenerated into was actually good. For the moments that got good video coverage, the semi-riot felt almost real and could pass as a faction fight between two rosters. Of course some of the action was absolutely terrible but the guys who can brawl did so in spades here._




The introduction with videos of the two promotion invasions felt a little lengthy, especially compared to the length of the event. The matches, themselves, were typical of what one should expect looking at the card with brawls and indecisive finishers throughout. Aside from the novelty factor, there truly isn't much reason to watch this, even if it is only an hour and a half, as there aren't any truly noteworthy moments outside of a decent show-ending brawl. Still, even then we witnessed a co-promotion brawl reminiscent of the one on CMLL television and introduced in the opening video. A ten minute spectacle that delivers the feud much better than this hour and a half event did. Though, it was funny to see El Tirantes (WF's favourite Lucha ref) get the loudest pop of any of the wrestlers.​


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Halcon Blanco goes mask vs mask tonight with Black Dragon in Torreon. What is this? A toss up or is there a story behind?


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Check out Rey Astral! Impressive 18yo from the indys. LINK HERE :cool2


----------



## USAUSA1

I watch last weekend AAA televise show, thought the Angélico, Drago, Jack Evans vs Carta Brava Jr., Eterno, Steve Pain match was great. The main event was a fun match to, but I am bias to all the men involve.


----------



## Punkhead

Well, the first match was a pretty typical AAA mid-card match. Enjoyable, I liked it too. Main event had some fun brawling and Canek's heel turn (if I understood it correctly).


----------



## Rah

*USAUSA1*, there's a few better spotfests from the year if you enjoyed that match. Hell, with the same people involved, if you care for some recommendations.

*TomasThunder619*, if a stream messes up in capture (via cubs) and a TV release is imminent, does Cubs usually reupload that particular show? I've noted he never did with Rush/Nakamura (which I uploaded) but I'm really interested in watching Maximo/Rush/Blue Panther Vs Aguila/Casas/Bucanero. I tried yesterday afternoon when he uploaded them but the stuttering was too much.


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> *TomasThunder619*, if a stream messes up in capture (via cubs) and a TV release is imminent, does Cubs usually reupload that particular show? I've noted he never did with Rush/Nakamura (which I uploaded) but I'm really interested in watching Maximo/Rush/Blue Panther Vs Aguila/Casas/Bucanero. I tried yesterday afternoon when he uploaded them but the stuttering was too much.


He reuploads very rarely. If something goes wrong, he usually just links to someone else, who has got the show/match. Or you can e-mail him and request it personally and see what he says.


----------



## Punkhead

Lucky Boy & Nino de Ebano vs Mamba & Yuriko from last week's AAA Sin Limite has to be the worst worked match I have seen this year. All their moves were sloppy, it looked like they didn't want to be there. They didn't have chemistry at all.


----------



## Rah

Yuriko is the drizzling shits.


----------



## Punkhead

Mamba was the best worker it that match, which is kinda weird, because he's usually below average. Average at best. Nino de Ebano and Lucky Boy aren't ready for AAA yet. They had a few spot matches that were OK. Yuriko, I won't lie, is shit.


----------



## Rah

I'm pretty surprised in reading Lucky Boy was trained by Los Navarros (***** y Traumas) so I'm going to expect something from him in years to come (somewhat disjointed logic, I'm sure, yet this is NAVARRO) but they both tried. That team submission. Yeah. Never again.

I'm not sure how I missed this class of a line-up earlier but I watched _Rayo de Jalisco Jr., Rush, Shocker vs Mr. Niebla, Terrible, Universo 2000_ after I watched that. Holy hell were the Rayo/Universo spots terrible.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Any chance of that it's the real Volador Jr in this video?

The clips are from independent events at Reynosa.


----------



## Rah

Indeed, they faced off in 2012 (?). There's a handheld of the event on YT, too. Nice way to plug your video that you posted earlier, btw.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Rah said:


> Indeed, they faced off in 2012 (?). There's a handheld of the event on YT, too. Nice way to plug your video that you posted earlier, btw.


2011 most likely then. Astro Rey changed his name to Rey Astral in March 2012. Why did Volador Jr wrestle at these indy events? 

Yeah lol, it's not the same video


----------



## USAUSA1

I got the chance to watch the live stream of AAA and CMLL yesterday.

Drago, Fénix, Flamita vs Pentagón Jr., Steve Pain, Último Gladiador was a fun match but nothing that you should go out your way to see.

Angélico, Jack Evans, La Parka vs Chessman, Eterno, Parka Negra. I wonder how far they going to push Angelico, maybe he will be the face of AAA US debut. I hated the finish to this match. It was your typical big name AAA main event. I enjoyed it but not sure if others on here will.

As for CMLL, I really didn't pay attention. The only match I watch from start to finish was the mini's match and it was a good match.


----------



## Punkhead

Just watched that AAA Sin Limite from July 20. Drago, Fenix, Flamita vs Pentagon Jr., Steve Pain, Ultimo Gladiador match was a typical AAA formula relevos australianos match. Fun opener. As for the main rvent, I loved it. This was my favorite AAA main event this year. Eterno is the future. I can imagine him main eventing AAA shows regulary in 10 years. He'll be where Chessman is right now. Great show overall.


----------



## USAUSA1

It was a fun show,.


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> *TomasThunder619*, if a stream messes up in capture (via cubs) and a TV release is imminent, does Cubs usually reupload that particular show? I've noted he never did with Rush/Nakamura (which I uploaded) but I'm really interested in watching Maximo/Rush/Blue Panther Vs Aguila/Casas/Bucanero. I tried yesterday afternoon when he uploaded them but the stuttering was too much.


He uploaded it again this week. It;s from a different channel, so it should be good.

3) Blue Panther, Máximo, Rush vs Mr. Águila, ***** Casas, Rey Bucanero
http://www.sendspace.com/file/x05weg


----------



## Rah

There is a golden angel smiling over us, after all.


----------



## Punkhead

Angel de Oro?


----------



## Rah

Haha, nah. Dark Angel.


----------



## El Teutón

Angel de Oro came finally back from his injury. Might as well smile upon us.


----------



## Rah

Blue Panther, Rush, Super Porky vs Averno, ***** Casas, Rey Escorpión (20/07/2013 CMLL) - It's not often that you have to type the words "Blue Panther wasn't good" but here's a match where he truly wasn't. Neither is Escorpion or Porky, though. Too much other bullshit to make this really good but it could be well worth it if they just focused on Casas/Rush dueling and cut away to Averno body slamming Porky for some metaphorical take on what Rush/Casas are doing to wrestling today.

***** Casas, Mr. Aguila & Rey Bucanero vs. Blue Panther, Rush & Maximo (14/07/2013 CMLL) - Rush doesn't give a fuck about his team's win/loss records. Rush doesn't give a fuck about the rules. Rush doesn't give a fuck about Zacarias. Rush only gives a fuck about killing Casas. Quite frankly, that's all I care about, too. Luchas de tríos > tu vida, perro.


----------



## Mountain Rushmore

Watching the Sin Cara vs Sin Cara match from _Smackdown from Mexico_ in 2011 and I realize that I'm interested in getting into more lucha libre /masked/Mexican wrestling. Any recommendations? I know of a few luchadores and I know of CMLL and AAA being the major promotions but can anyone recommend to me some must watch matches or shows? I would also appreciate plot summaries leading up to the matches if possible. One of the main reasons I've never gotten into Lucha libre is because I never know what's going on and I don't watch wrestling that lacks a story.


----------



## Punkhead

Boxes-With-Gods said:


> Watching the Sin Cara vs Sin Cara match from _Smackdown from Mexico_ in 2011 and I realize that I'm interested in getting into more lucha libre /masked/Mexican wrestling. Any recommendations? I know of a few luchadores and I know of CMLL and AAA being the major promotions but can anyone recommend to me some must watch matches or shows? I would also appreciate plot summaries leading up to the matches if possible. One of the main reasons I've never gotten into Lucha libre is because I never know what's going on and I don't watch wrestling that lacks a story.


You want quality, watch CMLL. You want storytelling and entertainment, watch AAA. That been said, if you want some great story, watch Mistico vs Averno feud from CMLL from a few years ago.


----------



## Rah

CMLL INFIERNO EN EL RING 2013 - there are only two reasons to watch this. Firstly, to witness Mr Aguila's drunken stupor and, tied to this, the embarrassment to CMLL in having to deliver a barebones final fall. A sloppy finish (thanks to Aguila) is hardly needed when the live crowd was actually a very good number. Second, and a more positive reason, is for Rush. Officials ordered all participants to wait three minutes before making their escapes. How did Rush spend his time? Beating the oxygen out of Casas' lungs, of course. I laughed out loud when Rush swindled everyone by making them set up a corner spot on Casas only to use this "distraction"/aid to run up and out the cage. Brilliant troll-work right there.


Konan Big Vs Blue Demon Jr. (31/10/2008) - I wish to say this is Monterrey, due to the look and where Big is working, but I'm not sure. Wherever it happened, there's a large crowd who witnessed an utter trainwreck. Konan has HHH's emblem on his spandex (I realise it is not, technically, his, but it reminds me of him) which is pretty fitting. This match was like HHH Vs Khali from Summerslam 2008. What Konan attempted to do just didn't work and Blue Demon came across as a useless waste of ring time. I sincerely hope there wasn't a Henry/Matt Hardy match equivalent on this card, though. I don't think I can sympathise to such an extent for the Mexican fans as I did for those at Summerslam.


----------



## Chingo Bling

No cmll on Galavision sucks. The only thing I get is El Luchador and thats over. Terrible aswell, with Felino and Dragon lee in work mode all the time.

Is Rush's dad really the new Pierroth?, I wouldn't be surprised if he was. Rush seems to get anything he wants. 
I heard on a perrosdelmal podcast, Psichosis was talking about wrestlers who put themselves over. And talked about meeting Rush, he would put over himself like a the biggest star ever. I thought that was funny. It certainly seems that he is living his gimmick.

Currently just watched some cmll matches 2004-2000 and the guy that most stuck out was Tarzan Boy. He was so over. People absolutely hated him. A lot like Rush today.


----------



## 777

Chingo Bling said:


> No cmll on Galavision sucks. The only thing I get is El Luchador and thats over. Terrible aswell, with Felino and Dragon lee in work mode all the time.
> 
> *Is Rush's dad really the new Pierroth?, I wouldn't be surprised if he was. Rush seems to get anything he wants.
> I heard on a perrosdelmal podcast, Psichosis was talking about wrestlers who put themselves over. And talked about meeting Rush, he would put over himself like a the biggest star ever. I thought that was funny. It certainly seems that he is living his gimmick.
> *
> Currently just watched some cmll matches 2004-2000 and the guy that most stuck out was Tarzan Boy. He was so over. People absolutely hated him. A lot like Rush today.


Awesome. This is great.


----------



## Punkhead

Rush gets anything he wants not because of his father. He gets it because he's number one. And he's number one because he's great and he deserves it. You may not like him, but to say that he is in that spot because of his father is just stupid.


----------



## Rah

How does that affect Dragon Lee becoming Mistico, then? I wasn't truly following that angle when it happened, but surely that's a large honour and something they wouldn't just put on anyone? Genuinely naive to how that came about and if there was any leverage used.


----------



## Punkhead

Dragon Lee was given Mistico gimmick because of Toro Blanco (his father) and Rush. But Rush didn't need that.


----------



## Chingo Bling

I like Rush, I think he's great. Just think he's got a massive ego and thats always fun to watch, because your want to see, "how much will this guy get away with?" or how he works with diffrent guys.


----------



## Punkhead

I think his ego is just a character. I haven't seen him out of character, though.


----------



## Rah

Oficial 911 Vs Dinamic Black (29/07/2013) - I'm, relatively, a fan of Los Oficiales. I don't often see people drop their names, yet I'm a sucker for 911's appearances. This match wasn't good, though. They had some interesting flying and submission work to start off, even if it was largely co-operative, yet it never quite got past that. A few botches did not help this, either.

Extreme Tiger, Trauma I, Trauma II vs Cerebro *****, Heddi Karaoui, Saruman (29/07/2013) - I just could not get into the match after a few minutes so I skipped it. Pretty disappointed, as I'm sure Las Traumas and Saruman would have delivered something decent, at the very least.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Continuing a little on this Rush/Misticlon discussion - how does CMLL pick up their talents? Do they have like a development promotion or do they just pick up indy talents? Also, where did Dragon Lee/Mistico II come from? I'm sure he was not in a indy before CMLL?


----------



## Punkhead

DoradaFan said:


> Continuing a little on this Rush/Misticlon discussion - how does CMLL pick up their talents? Do they have like a development promotion or do they just pick up indy talents? Also, where did Dragon Lee/Mistico II come from? I'm sure he was not in a indy before CMLL?


If you have an older family member wrestling for a promotion, there's a 99% chance that you won't have to worry about being signed by that company. CMLL doesn't have a developmental territory. They run shows in areas like Puebla and those shows feature some young Puebla-based talent. Once CMLL notices that he is good, he can be promoted to wrestling in bigger cities, like Guadalajara and Mexico DF. They start off in opener matches, then move up the card. That's how Rush got to the top. Unlike Dragon Lee/Mistico II, who was, out of nowhere, given a gimmick, that grants him a spot in the main event. I say out of nowhere, because as Dragon Lee he was just a random mid card tecnico, who could occasionally put on above average matches, but nothing more.


----------



## Obfuscation

Rah give me all the 2013 matches you've seen from Mascara Dorada that has been good/awesome/DORADA level in general for me to watch.


----------



## Rah

He's been in a few trios matches that I've glossed past due to the other guys involved, but I must admit I'm not as high on him this year as years gone by. The exceedingly short list is probably a mixture of both reasons:
Shocker/Blue Panther/Mascara Dorada vs. ***** Casas/Felino/ Mr. Niebla, 02/12
La Máscara, Máscara Dorada, Valiente vs Averno, Ephesto, Mephisto, 03/15
***** Casas vs. Mascara Dorada, 6/2

As obvious as that may be, I'm sure you can notice why those matches stand out. Nothing MotY worthy (Casas/Dorada is getting that praise from others) but Panther, Casas, Valiente and Averno are all good wrestlers. I'm sure Dorada was highlighted in those matches, but I cannot have any moment radically spring to mind outside of the Casas/Dorada match.

This is NUTS:








Volador!


----------



## Obfuscation

(Y)

Dorada & Panther getting sattled up with Shocker on a team. No buys!


----------



## Rah

Againt Felino and Niebla, too. Swap Casas for Atlantis and I'm sure your favourite team would have been born.


----------



## Punkhead

Watching AAA Sin Limite from July 28 (?). I gotta say I love those lucha heels. They do and talk bad things, but then act like everything is OK. I also love how luchadors not only break the pins, but also don't let the referee count.

*El Apache & Carta Brava Jr. vs Lucky Boy & Niño de Ébano*. An average opener. Some botches. I liked the work of El Apache. Niño de Ébano and Lucky Boy looked better than in that terrible match against exoticos.

*Texano Jr. vs Niño de Ébano* for the Heavyweight Championship. He ran to the ring after the match, powerbombed Niño and referee counted the pin. I guess this is just to add some meaningless title defenses for Texano. Psycho Clown didn't like it. I didn't see when the 'match' officially started, I think it may be the quickest Heavyweight title match in AAA history.

*Taya Valkyrie, Mini Abismo ***** & Mamba vs Faby Apache, Octagoncito & Pimpinela Escarlata*. This match didn't do anything for me, even though it had Taya, Faby Abismo and Octagoncito - wrestlers I usually enjoy seeing. The minis were the best thing in the match.

*Texano Jr., Silver King & Mascara Año 2000 Jr. vs Los Psycho Circus*. Texano Jr. vs Psycho Clown feud dounds interesting. Mini Clown is not as fun as CMLL mascots. I wasn't really into this match.

*Perro Aguayo Jr. & Psicosis vs Cibernetico & El Mesias*. Fans were really into this match. I was too. Good match, I liked it. Cibernetico is super over with the fans. His feud with Perro is also great. Looks like it's going to continue for a long time.

Overall a good show.


----------



## Rah

Surprised about the third match. That's quite a bit of entertaining talent in that match for it to not be good. Faby and ***** entertain me, too. But Pimpeinella just kills an entire match whenever I see him involved. Sigh.

Sombra/Volador for the IC title was quite reasonable. Of course it was packed with great dives and lucha work, but it showed its usual flaws in being too openly co-operative and filled with moments in which each luchadore simply waited for the other to set up their spot.


*El Hijo Del Santo y Rayo De Jalisco Vs Blue Demon Jr y El Hijo Del Solitario (01/01/2011)* - aside from Sombra's Wrestlekingdom performance, amoluchalibre was the company/site that gave me my first taste of lucha libre. If I remember correctly it was a maestros tag with Navarro/Traumas Vs Terry and his crew. It was actually really good. It would be interesting, then, that the very same company would give me a reason to never watch the sport again. Call it masochism, but I have a sick fantasy regarding Rayo. As my friend so rightfully put it, "hell is probably being tied down and forced to watch a wall of televisions, each with a different Rayo match playing". Well, I'm living hell. While I should be using my spare time to enjoy the trove of wrestling greatness that is to be tapped, I spend it watching any and every Rayo match that I can find. Each and every time they're absolute dog shit, especially when Demon/Universal 2K/Mascara 2K join the fray. This time, however, only one of the three amigos would play his role in fastening another bad match. I quite honestly thought the legend tag at Triplemania was worthy of the "minus five" joke rating, but this... oh, brother, is it worse. Much, much worse. I wish I could transcribe my thoughts and capture what went into this, but I'd miss a heap of the ingredients. It honestly has to be seen to be understood, but to do that is to invite one to endure pain beyond belief.


*Super Porky, Rayo de Jalisco Jr. y Strong Man Vs Gigante Bernard, Máscara Año 2000 y Universo 2000 (06/06/2010)* - Don't look at Tensai's latest gimmick and feel sorry that he's fallen so far. This match happened three years ago. Just look at those names. Fuck me. Surprisingly not as bad as it should have been, though. RAYO TOOK A CLEAN PIN, TOO!


----------



## Punkhead

Watching CMLL Infierno en el Ring (on Televisa). Haven't watched a CML show for a few months.

*Ephesto, Mephisto & Noebla Roja vs Stuka Jr., La Mascara & Titan*. Tecnicos looked great. Especially Stuka Jr.. First fall was too quick. Could have easily done a one fall match with first two falls being unnecessary.

*Mr. Aguila vs Maximo vs Rush vs ***** Casas vs Rey Escorpion vs Brazo de Plata vs Blue Panther vs Averno vs Rey Bucanero vs Shocker - 10-man cage match with everyone's hair on the line*. Was looking forward to this match. Rush vs ***** Casas feud is the best thing in CMLL since Rush vs Terrible feud. Loved the way Brazo de Plata helped Maximo to escape. Didn't see Mr. Aguila in the match at all, until 3 wrestlers were left in the cage. Rey Escorpion escape was funny. Finish was short and lame.

Overall, expected it to be better.


----------



## USAUSA1

The 10 man cage was bad but maybe it was editing.

AAA main event started off in a bad way, Perro and Cibetnetico exchanges in the beginning look like little kids playing wrestling but the match got better eventually.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

I like Texano, Jr. but his reign has been rather uneventful; he's been getting overshadowed ever since he won the strap IMO and more Cibernetico/Aguayo is never bad.


----------



## Punkhead

The title fits Texano Jr. very well and since titles don't mean a lot in lucha libre, I'm OK with him holding it.


----------



## 777

I like what they've done with Texano. But, they have kept him away from any of the serious contenders.


----------



## Punkhead

I think Texano is going to feud with Psycho Clown now, and El Consejo are going to feud with Psycho Circus. But it doesn't look like a long term feud. Maybe just until the next PPV. By the way, what is AAA's next PPV?


----------



## 777

I believe it's _Heroes Inmortales_.


----------



## Punkhead

Is AAA still doing Verano de Escandalo PPVs? If not, then it will be Heroes Inmortales PPV in October.


----------



## 777

It's been a couple years since they've run _Verano de Escandalo_ I think.


----------



## Rah

The only reason it wasn't run last year was due to Triplemania running in August, instead.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

777 said:


> I like what they've done with Texano. But, they have kept him away from any of the serious contenders.


Other than Blue Demon Jr. none of his matches have felt particularly big; I'm" probably just looking too much into things.



TomasThunder619 said:


> The title fits Texano Jr. very well and since titles don't mean a lot in lucha libre, I'm OK with him holding it.


You're probably right, his reigns just feels a little flat was all I was saying but yeah they're still building him up which is good. I do wonder if they'll let him break Jarrett's record for longest title run in the heavyweight division. Either that or he'll drop it at the next big show.


----------



## Punkhead

*AAA Fusión Episode 30 (2013-07-31)*. I LOVE Fusion. It's my favorite wrestling show to watch. And I love the theme song. Bulldozer by Disidente. This episode was 20 minutes shorter than usual. All the promo videos were missing, which is not a bad thing.

*Angelico & Jack Evans vs Eterno & Chessman*. This match was hyped by TheCubsFan, so I was looking forward to it. Too bad they didn't show Jack Evans' entrance. I love it. This was a good match. Not a typical Evans/Angelico match. Eterno and Chessman helped to keep tge balance between the jumping, flying wrestling moves of Angelico and Evans and more grappling and technical moves of his and Eterno. Well, at least in the first half of the match. I think I was right when I said it and I'm gonna say it again: Eterno, in 10 years, will be where Chessman is now. Eterno is the new Chessman. ****1/4*

*Electroshock & Dizzy vs Mascara Año 2000 Jr. & Silver King*. Weird main event. Surprisingly enough, Dizzy fit in this match pretty well. But still, the tecnicos team was really random. If you just find this match on the card, it may look random, but actually it was all about putting El Consejo over, setting up Heavy Metal's return, who hasn't been around since TripleMania (correct me if I'm wrong). They were just randomly beating up both guys- OMG Heavy Metal returned and kicked their asses. Sort of. After his interference, they wrestled 5 more minutes. Tecnicos still won, but it would make more sense if he helped them win. All he did was get beat up and stand outside of the ring for the rest of the match. ***3/4*


----------



## Punkhead

I know this discussion has been brought up many times, but I want to hear it again. What lucha channels are you subscribed to on Youtube? I'm subscribed to:

luchablog - weekly new AAA and CMLL matches.
luchalibreaaatv occasional AAA Sin Limite and Fusion shows.
LuchaLibreDeMexico - random shows and matches from AAA, CMLL and indies
TERCERACAIDANET - new episodes of Tercera Caida, AAA Fusion and IWL. Occasional IWRG and soon to be DTU.


----------



## Obfuscation

Only lad I tend to keep up with in providing me matches is clubsfan or theclubsfan. _(idr..)_ Every video I tend to watch Lucha on seems to be from that fella. He's always got the hook up on everything.


----------



## Rah

decadas80s90s2000 sometimes has newer stuff first, other times he has newer Indy shows with legends of the past who plain suck (Rayo). Otherwise it's a good source for some old goodies.



> 5) Taichi, Terrible, Vangellys b La Máscara, Rush, Titán
> *Rush used Chris Benoit’s last WWE theme as his music.* Rudos took 1/3, Terrible & Vangelis pinning Titan & Mascara. Rudos pre-match promo suggested a challenge for the national trios titles (with someone besides ineligible Taichi), though Mascara suggested a title match between himself and Vangelis post match.


Oh, Rush.


----------



## Chingo Bling

I like this channel too.TDK117 Most of it is AAA/CMLL 09-10 uploads.

Recently just saw Dandy vs Pirata Morgan hair match. Really good. Highly recommend if you haven't seen it. They do that referee bullshit, but just enough of it so its acceptable.


----------



## Punkhead

Does/did anybody watch IWL? I managed to watch it pretty regularly since episode 8 (latest one is 11). I can say it's not very good (to be honest, it's pretty bad), but it has something that keeps me wanting to watch their next show. Only good things they have are occasional AAA low carders and women's extreme matches (LuDarK ShAiTAN!).


----------



## Punkhead

*IWRG Zona XXI 2013-08-04*. Haven't watched IWRG in 4 months. Really, I watched this show only for the cage match.

*Alan Extreme & Fulgor vs Seiya & Freelance*. Poor match, lots of botches. Seiya needs to back to training. He's dangerous to work with. Many terrible camera angles, where the camera would completely miss dives and everything that happens outside of the ring.

*Taya Valkyrie, Fenix & Bugambilla vs Faby Apache, Pentagon Jr. & Miss Gaviota*. Gaviota is shit. I wish he would go away from lucha libre for good. I hate exoticos. Especially in the indys they spoil every match they are in. Average match overall.

*Copa Higher Power*. Really fun match. I don't remember too much about this match, but it was good.

*Domo de la Muerte*. 5 masks and 5 hairs on the line. I'll just cut to the point. Really sucked to see Eterno get shaved. Would rather see Super Nova unmask. It just didn't make sense, especially when he's getting momentum in AAA. And his mohawk was awesome. Good match, but the end disappointed.


----------



## USAUSA1

I was thinking about watching iwl, but thanks for warning me.


----------



## Punkhead

If you're thinking about watching IWL, just look at their card and pick a match that has either AAA wrestlers or women. However, don't pick a match that has exoticos or AULL wrestlers.

EDIT: I wrote a pretty long AAA show review, but fucked up and now it's gone. Pretty frustrated now. Hope I will remember at least a part of it tomorrow.


----------



## Rah

Get a browser extension that saves the form every few seconds (akin to Microsoft Word). Lazarus is the one for Firefox. Total life saver.


----------



## Punkhead

*AAA Sin Limite 2013-08-04*. I absolutely love what is going on in AAA right now.

*Faby Apache & Drago vs Mary Apache & Halloween* for the AAA Mixed Tag Team Championship. The match started out as a technical showdown between Mary and Drago. I thought it was great. Drago and Faby Apache work very well together. They make a great team. Mary Apache got really fat. And that extra weight doesn't help her in the ring. Even the commentators noticed that. She once weighed 63 kilograms and now she weighs 105 kg, according to the commentators. Tirantes is working his rudo part very well. He may be the best non-wrestler heel in lucha libre. I'm enjoying him very much right now. While he was out, Pierro came to the ring and counted a pin for tecnicos. Title change! Tirantes didn't agree with that, but he couldn't change the decision. I would really love to see Tirantes feud with Pierro. I think the only reason the title change happened is because Halloween is leaving AAA. Anyway, I'm really happy for Faby and Drago. They're a great team. This was one of the best matches in a while. It was great. A bit too short for MTOY. ******

Ater the match, Halloween, the heel he is, apologized to Mary and got slapped by her. That's the last time we saw Halloween in AAA. For now, at least.

*Espiritu, Ozz & Cuervo vs Psicosis, Daga & Eita*. La Secta are awesome. They really start growing on me (as you can tell by my sig). This Secta vs Perros del Mal feud is great. They brought in Eita Kobayashi into this match and I hope he stays in AAA with Perros del Mal. He makes a good team with Daga. That Psicosis' stapler scares me a bit. I guess they use staples that are modified in some way and don't go very deep. Otherwise, I wouldn't want to wrestle against him. The match was done just to spice up the feud between the factions, with a tecnico win. ****1/4*

After the match, doctors were checking out Daga again. Psicosis is swearing again. Ozz asked for a title shot again. Daga refused to give him the match yet again. Nothing new here.

*Steve Pain, Pentagon Jr. & Chessman vs Jack Evans, Angelico & Fenix*. I know Rah will disagree with me, but I really love the team of Jack Evans and Angelico. And apparently, so does TheCubsFan, who rated this match as 'excellent'. These guys have such a great chemistry. Pentagon Jr., I have to say, has improved a great deal since he switched from his Dark Dragon gimmick. And he's still improving. As for Steve Pain, I don't understand what is the point of him being in AAA. What is he even doing? What is the purpose of keeping him? I hope he is not here to stay. This match was good only thanks to tecnicos. And Fenix's entrance song is quite annoying. ****3/4*

I saw someone in the crowd with a Polvora mask. :no: You don't take a CMLL mask to a AAA show.

*El Hijo de Perro Aguayo, Texano Jr. & La Parka Negra vs Cibernetico, El Mesias & La Parka*. I love everything that is going in the main event right now. Cibernetico vs Perro feud is so intense. Fans are strongly behind Cibernetico. Apocalipsis ahora! Though they didn't seem to be into this match. Tirantes is awesome. I would love to see him feud with Pierro. ****1/2*

AAA is in it's prime right now. It's better than ever. With feuds like Cibernetico vs Perro, Secta vs Perros, Faby vs Mary, Dinastia vs Mini Abismo, Parka vs Parka Negra. With guys like Eterno, Daga, Mesias, Texano, Mexican Powers. The future looks very bright for them.


----------



## Rah

Tirantes is in AAA? I'm pretty sure I saw him in CMLL a couple months ago. Either way, that Evans match seemed to be toned down a lot so I'm not going to complain much. Completely glossed over that intergender match, so I'll definitely hop on that now.


----------



## Punkhead

Mixed tag titles match was awesome. That Evans match was not that good. And I say that as his fan. I don't understand why Cubs praised is so much.

I think his name is actually Hijo de Tirantes, but everybody keep refering to him as just Tirantes.


----------



## USAUSA1

TomasThunder619 said:


> *AAA Sin Limite 2013-08-04*. I absolutely love what is going on in AAA right now.
> 
> *Faby Apache & Drago vs Mary Apache & Halloween* for the AAA Mixed Tag Team Championship. The match started out as a technical showdown between Mary and Drago. I thought it was great. Drago and Faby Apache work very well together. They make a great team. Mary Apache got really fat. And that extra weight doesn't help her in the ring. Even the commentators noticed that. She once weighed 63 kilograms and now she weighs 105 kg, according to the commentators. Tirantes is working his rudo part very well. He may be the best non-wrestler heel in lucha libre. I'm enjoying him very much right now. While he was out, Pierro came to the ring and counted a pin for tecnicos. Title change! Tirantes didn't agree with that, but he couldn't change the decision. I would really love to see Tirantes feud with Pierro. I think the only reason the title change happened is because Halloween is leaving AAA. Anyway, I'm really happy for Faby and Drago. They're a great team. This was one of the best matches in a while. It was great. A bit too short for MTOY. ******
> 
> Ater the match, Halloween, the heel he is, apologized to Mary and got slapped by her. That's the last time we saw Halloween in AAA. For now, at least.
> 
> *Espiritu, Ozz & Cuervo vs Psicosis, Daga & Eita*. La Secta are awesome. They really start growing on me (as you can tell by my sig). This Secta vs Perros del Mal feud is great. They brought in Eita Kobayashi into this match and I hope he stays in AAA with Perros del Mal. He makes a good team with Daga. That Psicosis' stapler scares me a bit. I guess they use staples that are modified in some way and don't go very deep. Otherwise, I wouldn't want to wrestle against him. The match was done just to spice up the feud between the factions, with a tecnico win. ****1/4*
> 
> After the match, doctors were checking out Daga again. Psicosis is swearing again. Ozz asked for a title shot again. Daga refused to give him the match yet again. Nothing new here.
> 
> *Steve Pain, Pentagon Jr. & Chessman vs Jack Evans, Angelico & Fenix*. I know Rah will disagree with me, but I really love the team of Jack Evans and Angelico. And apparently, so does TheCubsFan, who rated this match as 'excellent'. These guys have such a great chemistry. Pentagon Jr., I have to say, has improved a great deal since he switched from his Dark Dragon gimmick. And he's still improving. As for Steve Pain, I don't understand what is the point of him being in AAA. What is he even doing? What is the purpose of keeping him? I hope he is not here to stay. This match was good only thanks to tecnicos. And Fenix's entrance song is quite annoying. ****3/4*
> 
> I saw someone in the crowd with a Polvora mask. :no: You don't take a CMLL mask to a AAA show.
> 
> *El Hijo de Perro Aguayo, Texano Jr. & La Parka Negra vs Cibernetico, El Mesias & La Parka*. I love everything that is going in the main event right now. Cibernetico vs Perro feud is so intense. Fans are strongly behind Cibernetico. Apocalipsis ahora! Though they didn't seem to be into this match. Tirantes is awesome. I would love to see him feud with Pierro. ****1/2*
> AAA is in it's prime right now. It's better than ever. With feuds like Cibernetico vs Perro, Secta vs Perros, Faby vs Mary, Dinastia vs Mini Abismo, Parka vs Parka Negra. With guys like Eterno, Daga, Mesias, Texano, Mexican Powers. The future looks very bright for them.


It took me two days to watch this episode and I love it. Evans and Angelico is on fire right now.


----------



## USAUSA1

Watch the Zona XXI cage match, don't know if I like it or not. It was just meh to me.


----------



## Punkhead

USAUSA1 said:


> Watch the Zona XXI cage match, don't know if I like it or not. It was just meh to me.


I wrote about it a few posts above. To me the match was meh too and the outcome was disappointing. And the ending was stupid. Both guys who fought for their hair returned to the cage after escaping it, to help their partners, who later both escaped. I would rather see Super Nova get unmasked. Eterno is getting momentum in AAA and his haircut looked cool. Why shave it?


----------



## Rah

Now I know why I glossed over that inter-gender match. I was thinking of a different show, and I'm not sure Cubs has even rated that match either as it is out of his dateline. Or am I wrong? Anyway... BOO! at Eterno getting his hair shaved. He had one of the most recognizable looks thanks to it.

Angélico, Drago, Jack Evans vs Carta Brava Jr., Eterno, Steve Pain (14/06/2013 AAA) - GREAT showcase of talent here with Drago just ruling the world when he was in control. Absolutely balls crazy from start to finish, with the crowd blowing their lungs out. I'd hate to have come in after this match, because there is no way a crowd would not be tired after being built like this. Next level noise. Angelico absolutely destroyed Eterno with that buckle bomb, almost as if he knew he had to save the Pain/Evans rubbish. Phenomenal match-up that did not stop in delivering spots at any moment in its near 20 minute length. Out-fucking-standing.


Faby Apache & Drago vs Mary Apache & Halloween (18/07/2013 AAA) - Mary has become pretty bad since the last I saw of her. I'm not sure if it's just down to her weight, but her timing is most certainly off. Faby running the ropes barricade to build momentum was most certainly an interesting moment, too. El Hijo Del Tirantes has most certainly taken lessons from his father, as he's such a perfect rudo referee, much to the agitation of the crowd. I litereally laughed out loud when he tripped Faby up and then wondered how it happened, even looking to the crowd as if they had thrown something in. For all his talents, he's certainly no wrestler, though, and his selling is pretty bad. Great moment for the crowd in seeing Drago win, and why shouldn't it be? Whether its technical mastery or high-flying spotfests Drago can do it all so beautifully well. 


Steve Pain, Pentagon Jr. & Chessman vs Jack Evans, Angélico & Fenix (18/07/2013 AAA) - well, Angélico is most certainly over with the women. WHAT THE FUCK at Evans turning an aided suplex from Angélico into a 450 splash. WHAT THE FUCK X2 at Pain's Gotch-styled Powebomb flip into facebuster. Outside of those moments I think this was most certainly flat. No one really had their work boots on, outside of maybe Fenix, but that finishing run was most certainly illogical noting Pain's monstrous move being transitioned into Fenix' comparably inconsequential finisher.


As much as I do not like AAA (in seemingly being burned by watching their bigger shows), I must agree with you, *TomasThunder619*, those feuds you listed make me so excited. Perhaps I should rather focus on the weekly shows and ignore the convoluted bullshit. The very fact that it's uploaded each week in such great quality sells that point all the more.


----------



## Punkhead

Mary Apache is in bad shape right now. She really needs to lose some weight. But I can say I actually lol'ed when Mary sold that huricanranna few seconds too late.


----------



## sXeMope

Looking through Black Terry's Flickr, saw this guy. Anyone know his name? http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5532/9456864408_3d7fae2c25_z.jpg


----------



## Punkhead

sXeMope said:


> Looking through Black Terry's Flickr, saw this guy. Anyone know his name? http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5532/9456864408_3d7fae2c25_z.jpg


Namajague. A Japanese guy in CMLL, who recently lost his mask. Part of Ola Amarilla trio.


----------



## Rah

Ran through some of the matches Cubs uploaded today:

Charles Lucero Vs Rey Hechicero (28/07/2013 Noches de Coliseo) - While Lucero is definitely no Navarro or Terry, he's still an interesting prospect as an old mat-wizard. Considering this guy hasn't made tape before three weeks ago (I'm sure he's been fucking around the Indies for decades), he's definitely become a bittersweet treat to witness (with the bitterness in realising I've missed years of his work that I will never see). A bit awkward at times, but Lucero most certainly shines in his role of out-dated mat-working brawler and foil to Hechicero's beautiful subs and holds. Old school lucha is alive and well!

Charles Lucero Vs Rey Hechicero (04/08/2013 Fighters NICE) - it's funny to note that, on a card with only three matches, this was sandwiched between such throw-away, typical Indy bouts in an exotico tag, and a garbage inter-gender hardcore match. This most certainly is no throw-away, typical Indy bullshit, though. So frustrating seeing the official keep Lucero off the supposedly injured Hechicero (following a nasty missed dive), as I just wanted Lucero to go ape on the downed champion, but it played into the match fair enough. Without that, Lucero was a definite lock to win, so I hope this continues their feud.

Ángel de Oro Vs Puma (04/08/2013 CMLL) - FUN~!

La Sombra, Marco Corleone y Rush Vs Averno, Mephisto y Volador Jr. (02/08/2013 CMLL) - Rush comes out to Benoit's WWE theme music and gets beaten down by the rudos with baseball bats as punishment. Great scrap fighting between Rush and Averno/Mephisto as well as loads of mask ripping between Sombra/Volador to continue the tease of their aspuestas match. This set out and perfectly executed everything it was meant to, thus a thumbs up for that.

La Máscara, Rush y Titán Vs Taichi, Terrible y Vangellis (04/08/2013 CMLL) - Titán does some flips, Máscara loses his mask, Vangellis does a drop kick, Rush/Terrible slap each other to death while Taichi is more interested in kissing the guys at ringside than actually wrestling. Yep, we're in Arena Coliseo.

La Máscara, Rush, Titán vs Rey Bucanero, Terrible, Vangellis (11/08/2013 CMLL) - Titán has some pretty nice music, Máscara not so much. He also seems to just exist in these moments now, especially without much fanfare during his entrances. Weird, I always pictured him as the girls want him, guys hate him guy? No comment on Rush' new music, for obvious reasons. He looks legit as fuck, though. I adored how Titán tried to hype himself up as a big deal only for Terrible to look straight past him and beckon for Rush to get into the ring to start things off. Reluctantly, Titán agreed. Good. We don't have any Rush/Casas this week so I'll take as much Terrible/Rush as I can get. Not even a few minutes later, though, Titán tried to steal the spotlight by doing a fancy dive that kind of just failed and everyone beats the shit out of him for it. Good x2. Máscara gets a decent reaction from the women in the audience by taking his shirt off, but the Gestapo of Trance wants none of it and kicks him out the ring. Yeah, just stay for the Terrible/Rush moments, I say.

Cien Caras Jr., Máscara Año 2000 y Universo 2000 Vs Canek, LA Park y Rayo de Jalisco Jr. (27/07/2013 TxT) - the first fall was quite something, with a very unique finish. I've never seen someone stand on someone else to cause a submission. Then again, Canek is 60 so this could be some wild stab at realistic wrestling here (which I highly doubt). As surprising less shit as the first fall was, the second stoops to its typically horrendous level. Not even Rayo can plancha everyone down (a move that's simply no sold). Surprisingly, though, this was one of the better Rayo matches I've seen in the long list of filth. Still, that's like comparing a dry turd to a fresh one. I almost feel apologetic towards La Park being in this. Not that he gave a shit about anything, though. No selling everyone and just standing still when moves got used on him. Bless him. I don't even know why this match got confetti. Universo ripped Rayo's mask off for a DQ in front of almost no people. But no. RAYO GETS CONFETTI BECAUSE RAYO IS THE KING OF LUCHA. Sigh.

***** Navarro y Trauma I Vs Eterno y X-Fly (11/08/2013 IWRG) - as much as I love the Navarros and enjoy watching Eterno do his thing (even without that identifiable mohawk), there's just no getting around X-Fly. Stream issues aside, I just cannot get into something when he's bringing his act to the table. This really isn't for me.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Notes and questions this week.

CMLL:

1. Angel de Oro is a very good performer and has a nice moveset but he can't sell very good.

2. Much like Mistico II. Also, where was Mistico this week?

3. And were was Soberano? He was not in a match this week, and is not in a card for next week either. He is not injured cause he wrestled yesterday but that was just replacing Bengala in a Primera. Why isn't he on cards?

4. Why the hell does Rush have Chris Benoit's theme music? Why would CMLL want to bury one of their biggest stars?

5. I made a highlight video for CMLL 7/30/13. Check it out!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnsJsGZmK7Q

6. Mascara Dorada is really on top of his form at the moment and was awesome this week!

Indys:

1. Rey Astral won versus some guy called Black Shawer in a Mascara contra Mascara. Footage here of the aftermath: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh11f7FrZoc 

2. Someone that knows spanish better than i do that can translate roughly what he said in that video? 

3. Astral remind me of a young Rey Mysterio Jr.


----------



## USAUSA1

Trying not to watch the 1 hour version of AAA from last weekend but can not find the regional version yet.


----------



## Rah

Rush won't get buried.

1) Did Benoit taint the song? Sure, but a lot of people who went off their rocker did that to a lot of media. It doesn't necessitate completely blackholing them forever. Is it in poor taste? Maybe, probably, I'm not sure what their thinking is, but the song does fit Rush perfectly. I'm not going to defend it, nor will I lambaste it, though. I really enjoy the song, simply because Benoit used it as a theme song, doesn't mean I won't stop listening to it. I suppose they think similar.

2) For those who get it, they'll simply go "you shitbag!", which is exactly what Rush wants you to feel.


----------



## Punkhead

*CMLL 2013-08-10* on Televisa.

*Rey Cometa vs Ephesto*. Rey Cometa is really impressive. Apart from two Cometa's dives, the whole match was really slow paced, uneventful and short. Nothing much to say about it.

Man of the match: *Rey Cometa*.

*Mascara Dorada, Brazo de Plata & Titan vs Namajague, Okumura & Taichi*. Ola Amarijja look great. Super Porky always makes me laugh. Mascara Dorada and Titan are great luchadors. This match has great potential. I don't really have a provlem with 2 out of 3 falls matches, but I don't like it when (most of the time) first two falls are meaningless and everything is done in the third fall. And as in almost every match, poor Ke Monito. What I don't understand, is how can somebody have Super Porky's physique and still fly?

Man of the match: *Brazo de Plata*.

*Rush, Marco Corleone & La Sombra vs Averno, Mephisto & Volador Jr.*. I don't have a problem with Rush using Chris Benoit's theme song. Sure, most wrestling fans know it as Benoit's theme, but others know it as Whatever by Our Lady Peace. Volador vs Sombra feud is interesting. Are they really going to have a mask vs mask match? And I wonder what is up with Rush. Taking ***** Casas' hair? I think it is highly unlikely that Rush will be shaven. This match was short. Only two falls? Volador Jr. vs La Sombra was the main thing in this match, so I'm OK with it. Just a little match before Anniversario.

Man of the match: *Volador Jr.*.

Can somebody give me a full list of apuesta matches that will happen at 80 Anniversario?


----------



## Rah

The only match I know to be confirmed is Sombra/Volador Vs Atlantis/Guerrero with the winning team going on to a mask match.


----------



## Punkhead

Matches announced for AAA Heroes Inmortales:



> Texano Jr. (c) vs Psycho Clown [AAA HEAVY] – Psycho’s still go to beat him, guessing he will in Naucalpan
> Perros del Mal (Perro Jr., Psicosis, Daga and either Eita or Cibernetico) vs La Secta – maybe a setup for an apuesta rematch in December. Would mean the Daga/Ozz stuff is going nowhere.
> Dinastia (c) vs Mini Abismo ***** [AAA MINI]


Three of my favorite feuds in AAA, plus Texano Jr. Perros/Secta and Perro/Civernetico in one match (assuming Cibernetico is in the match). Abismo vs Dinastia sounds awesome.


----------



## sXeMope

Anyone have the Best Of Lucha in the 90's set from IVP/RudoReels? Thinking about getting it (Along with When Worlds Collide 1994, which I've heard good things about as well). just as an introduction to lucha. Is it something you'd recommend to someone who's only knowledge of lucha is flippy shit?



Spoiler: Match listing for anyone who doesn't own it, but has enough knowledge to look at it and judge



DISC 1
20th - Ciclon Ramirez vs. El Felino (CMLL - 5/23/93) (FAIR-GOOD VQ)
19th - Rey Mysterio Jr./Super Calo/Winners vs. Psicosis/Heavy Metal/Picudo (AAA - 1/29/93) - 18th - El Hijo del Santo/Antifaz del Norte/Olimpico/Tarzan Boy/Tony Rivera/Felino/***** Casas/Emilio Charles Jr. vs. Rey Bucanero/Ultimo Guerrero/Black Warrior/Satanico/Bestia Salvaje/Blue Panther/Fuerza Guerrera/Zumbido (CMLL 11/26/99 - 16 Man Cibernetico)

DISC 2
17th - Mr. Niebla vs. Dr Wagner Jr. (CMLL 9/3/97 – CMLL Light Heavyweight Title) -
16th - ALTERNATE: Bracito De Oro/Cicloncito Ramirez/Mascarita Magica vs. Damiancito El Guerrero/El Fierito/Pierrothito (CMLL - 10/3/97)
15th - Blue Panther vs. Love Machine (AAA 4/3/92 - Mask vs. Mask)

DISC 3
14th - Javier Cruz vs. Ciclon Ramirez (CMLL 6/10/94 - Hair vs. Hair)
13th - Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (Tijuana - 3/16/96)
12th - Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (AAA 6/16/95 - WWA Lightweight Title)
11th - Pegasus Kid vs. Villano III (UWA - 1/26/92)

DISC 4
10th - Silver King vs. Apolo Dantes (CMLL 6/23/95 – CMLL Heavyweight Title)
9th - Psicosis/Juventud Guerrera vs. El Volador/El Mexicano (AAA - 1/12/96)
8th - El Hijo del Santo/Octagon/Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Fuerza Guerrera/Psicosis/Blue Panther (AAA 3/16/95)

DISC 5
7th - El Hijo del Santo vs. ***** Casas (CMLL 9/19/97 - Mask vs. Hair)
6th - El Hijo del Santo vs. Psicosis (AAA 5/3/95 – WWA Welterweight Title)
5th - El Hijo del Santo vs. ***** Casas vs. El Dandy (CMLL 12/6/96 - Mask vs. Hair vs. Hair)
4th - Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (AAA 4/21/95 – WWA Lightweight Title)

DISC 6
3rd - Psicosis vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. (AAA - 9/22/95)
2nd - El Hijo Del Santo/Octagon vs. Love Machine/Eddy Guerrero (AAA 11/6/94 – Masks vs. Hairs)
1st - ***** Casas/Atlantis/Ultimo Dragon/El Dandy/Mascara Magica/Shocker/La Fiera/Brazo De Oro vs. El Hijo del Santo/Dr. Wagner Jr./Felino/Scorpio Jr./Black Warrior/Kevin Quinn/Satanico/Silver King (CMLL 4/18/97 - 16 Man Cibernetico Match)


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Why aren't Rey Astral in a major promotion yet?

I thought of it when luchablog wrote there is no Generation' 13 in CMLL and why is that? Just hire all the Reynosa guys! Rey Astral, Unico Jr, Estrellato, Komander.. They are all awesome.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Here is my new blog i just created.

http://doradafan.blogspot.se/

About highflying wrestling and Lucha Libre. You will see Lucha libre news, CMLL & AAA cards and comments, Lucha libre indys and WWE highflyers news.


----------



## Concrete

sXeMope said:


> Anyone have the Best Of Lucha in the 90's set from IVP/RudoReels? Thinking about getting it (Along with When Worlds Collide 1994, which I've heard good things about as well). just as an introduction to lucha. Is it something you'd recommend to someone who's only knowledge of lucha is flippy shit?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Match listing for anyone who doesn't own it, but has enough knowledge to look at it and judge
> 
> 
> 
> DISC 1
> 20th - Ciclon Ramirez vs. El Felino (CMLL - 5/23/93) (FAIR-GOOD VQ)
> 19th - Rey Mysterio Jr./Super Calo/Winners vs. Psicosis/Heavy Metal/Picudo (AAA - 1/29/93) - 18th - El Hijo del Santo/Antifaz del Norte/Olimpico/Tarzan Boy/Tony Rivera/Felino/***** Casas/Emilio Charles Jr. vs. Rey Bucanero/Ultimo Guerrero/Black Warrior/Satanico/Bestia Salvaje/Blue Panther/Fuerza Guerrera/Zumbido (CMLL 11/26/99 - 16 Man Cibernetico)
> 
> DISC 2
> 17th - Mr. Niebla vs. Dr Wagner Jr. (CMLL 9/3/97 – CMLL Light Heavyweight Title) -
> 16th - ALTERNATE: Bracito De Oro/Cicloncito Ramirez/Mascarita Magica vs. Damiancito El Guerrero/El Fierito/Pierrothito (CMLL - 10/3/97)
> 15th - Blue Panther vs. Love Machine (AAA 4/3/92 - Mask vs. Mask)
> 
> DISC 3
> 14th - Javier Cruz vs. Ciclon Ramirez (CMLL 6/10/94 - Hair vs. Hair)
> 13th - Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (Tijuana - 3/16/96)
> 12th - Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (AAA 6/16/95 - WWA Lightweight Title)
> 11th - Pegasus Kid vs. Villano III (UWA - 1/26/92)
> 
> DISC 4
> 10th - Silver King vs. Apolo Dantes (CMLL 6/23/95 – CMLL Heavyweight Title)
> 9th - Psicosis/Juventud Guerrera vs. El Volador/El Mexicano (AAA - 1/12/96)
> 8th - El Hijo del Santo/Octagon/Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Fuerza Guerrera/Psicosis/Blue Panther (AAA 3/16/95)
> 
> DISC 5
> 7th - El Hijo del Santo vs. ***** Casas (CMLL 9/19/97 - Mask vs. Hair)
> 6th - El Hijo del Santo vs. Psicosis (AAA 5/3/95 – WWA Welterweight Title)
> 5th - El Hijo del Santo vs. ***** Casas vs. El Dandy (CMLL 12/6/96 - Mask vs. Hair vs. Hair)
> 4th - Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (AAA 4/21/95 – WWA Lightweight Title)
> 
> DISC 6
> 3rd - Psicosis vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. (AAA - 9/22/95)
> 2nd - El Hijo Del Santo/Octagon vs. Love Machine/Eddy Guerrero (AAA 11/6/94 – Masks vs. Hairs)
> 1st - ***** Casas/Atlantis/Ultimo Dragon/El Dandy/Mascara Magica/Shocker/La Fiera/Brazo De Oro vs. El Hijo del Santo/Dr. Wagner Jr./Felino/Scorpio Jr./Black Warrior/Kevin Quinn/Satanico/Silver King (CMLL 4/18/97 - 16 Man Cibernetico Match)


I don't remember how much I paid for the set but I found it to be worth it and THEN some. Certainly got me more interested in lucha. There is some flippy shit but also some awesome lucha brawls. Again I don't how much it costs but if you want to get a good sampler set for lucha I found it to do the trick.


----------



## USAUSA1

Did not like AAA August 17th episode especially the hardcore tag match.


----------



## Rah

Busy watching Raw, gotta love how Dos Caras still hates the living guts out of Mistico and thus injured his hand. The rage mode following was hilarious. Sin Cara's injury is a negative consequence, but I thought it's still funny how this continues between them.


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> Busy watching Raw, gotta love how Dos Caras still hates the living guts out of Mistico and thus injured his hand. The rage mode following was hilarious. Sin Cara's injury is a negative consequence, but I thought it's still funny how this continues between them.


I think Sin Cara got injured before Alberto's rage. But yeah, it looked cool. I think Cara should team with Ricardo, who could go bavk to his Chimaera gimmick.


----------



## Rah

ADR kicked him, solidly, in the hand when the match started. I'm sure that's when it happened. Either way, all Cara needs to destroy his ego is Hunico to come back and replace him. Then EVERYTHING has come full circle.


----------



## Punkhead

Watching AAA and I got to say I love their slow motion replays.


----------



## Concrete

DVDVR's Lucha 80s set is up for pre-order. Anyone gonna pick it up? $30 for 10 discs seems like a DEAL!


----------



## Rah

DVDVR's Memphis (1-9) and Best of Lucha 90s is currently coming down. WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO ME?! I'm never going to have free time ever again.


----------



## ywall2breakerj

I'm a lucha n00b, but I really enjoyed La Sombra vs Volador Jr.-CMLL 16.8.2013.. Could someone just clarify why did Volador Jr.


Spoiler: spoilersduh



get DQ'd for attempting a Tombstone (or maybe it was the Ishimori Tombstone Lungblower?) I assume the move was banned or something.


 Top-notch flippity-floppity with a couple of flat-out insane bumps. Could someone be kind enough to recommend me a few matwork-based recent lucha matches? I really digged Virus/Panther. WHY Y U NO HOOK ME UP RAH?


----------



## Concrete

Watched this trios match with some old men http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YLgX4QFV10.Really good exhibition.


----------



## Corey

ywall2breakerj said:


> Could someone be kind enough to recommend me a few matwork-based recent lucha matches?


This pretty much embodies what you're requesting:


----------



## Rah

MAT-WORKY~!


----------



## Punkhead

Shit! Charly Manson got sentenced for 7 years.



> Charly Manson was sentenced to 7 years and 4 months for his April 2011 attack on two police officers. It’s taken more than two years to get a verdict; Manson was arrested that April, released, then put back in jail in late May. Charly’s brother Electroshock had complained earlier this year about the exceptionally long period Charly’s spent in jail with no decision or sentence announced.
> Assuming time served, Manson would be out of jail in September 2018 (at the age of 43) if he serves his full term. I have no idea if he actually has to serve out the full term or if early release is possible as in the US. There were rumors one of the police officers passed away due to his injuries, but there is no mention of that in any of the wire articles. Some articles mention the friend Charly was with, who was also arrested, was released.


_Source: http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/?p=28441_

I hope he will come back to wrestle after he gets released. Won't be too old.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Is Volador Jr & Rey Astral related somehow?


----------



## Máscara Dorada

CMLL January 12 @ Arena Coliseo Guadalajara!

Pretty much a shit show except for Soberano vs. Bobby Zavala in the Tercera & the Semimain with El Gallo, Stuka Jr. and Tritón vs. El Cancerbero, Raziel and Sangre Azteca which was decent. This video however is all the few moments of the show that's worth watching. Or well, if you want to watch the full Tercera (Soberano, Magnus & Starman vs. Bobby Zavala, Disturbio & Nitro) i can recommend that. Here is that match:


----------



## Rah

Blue Panther, Máximo, Rush vs Averno, Mr. Niebla, ***** Casas (18/02/2013 CMLL) - this was mostly fodder for Averno/Panther and didn't truly highlight Rush/Casas as much as I had hoped it would. Not a bad match in the slightest, but I wouldn't call it must watch. If exoticos are your thing, though, Maximo is doing it as good as anyone right now.


----------



## Punkhead

> On this week's episode of MLW Radio with Konnan, former WWE creative executive Court Bauer and MSL, Konnan (the current booker of AAA) revealed that WWE almost bought AAA in 2007.
> 
> He said: "They went in there [Mexico] with big, big ambitious plans a few years ago. They wanted to do a lot of business down in Mexico and then obviously those plans scaled back and they haven't run in two or so years down there. I know exactly what happened because we had to live through it. We had a meeting. I've never talked about this. We had somebody from WWE actually come and having a meeting with me and Dorian, who is the son of the owner. We had a meeting with somebody from WWE and they came and offered to buy AAA. He was really cool. He was like, 'We want to buy AAA.' Dorian was like, 'We're not really for sale, but we'll listen.'
> 
> They wanted to buy 51% of the company. I was like, 'Dude, do not do that because these [guys], the minute they don't like something, they're going to get rid of us.' I said why doesn't Vince just buy 50% or 49%? They said Vince doesn't like to go into partnership with anybody and doesn't want to be asking for permission for anything. I asked what would happen to us. They said, 'As you can see, we're having trouble running WWE as it is and we're trying to expand into Europe. We don't really know what we're doing in Mexico, so you guys would stay in power.' We excused ourselves to go to the bathroom and I said that's BS. The minute we do something they don't like, they're going to change it and there's nothing we can do about it. We can't give them this type of power, which he understood. He told them we wouldn't sell that much of the company."


Interesting.


----------



## Rah

Imagine the working relationship they could have had if that went through.


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> Imagine the working relationship they could have had if that went through.


Like in 1997?


----------



## USAUSA1

On the same show, they mentioned they will tape the El Rey network shows.


----------



## Rah

It's a pity at how short CMLL's tourney matches are. Five minutes is just not long enough for Virus/Sombra nor Virus/Valiente. Of course Sombra/Tanahashi gets a decent amount of time, but it's something I'm not interested in.


Marco Corleone, Máximo, Rush vs Felino, ***** Casas, Volador Jr. (30/08/2013 CMLL) - I genuinely cannot tell you who I love more. Rush/Casas have just transformed this feud into something completely different. Everything is just so great that it's hard to understand how anyone could just pass on Lucha Libre. Of course there were some iffy moments to go with the hell-ride but, for the most part, they were perfectly acceptable. Máximo continues being the emulating standard for exoticos, Corleone is fine so, too, is Felino. Volador kind of just exists in this but he doesn't stink things up.

Aerostar, Angélico, Jack Evans vs Machine Rocker, Pentagón Jr., Soul Rocker (31/08/2013 AAA) - This was a great exhibition for Aerostar's fanciful moves. Everyone else was perfectly fine, like the last match, but they're really not the reason why I'm watching this. I don't care how implausible/unlikely this is, but Drago/Aerostar needs to happen. Yeah, Aerostar is just insane.


----------



## Concrete

*Rah*, I've been working on a Top 100 workers for my website and I didn't know if you'd recommend any guys that maybe haven't been mentioned so much in the MOTYC thread but are still deserving of praise. My working Top 100 has about 14 lucha guys.

EDIT: Anyone know what day and time is CMLL's Anniversary? I mean its FREE!


----------



## Rah

Give me your list so far and I'll give you some guys I think you may need to look up.

September 13.


----------



## Concrete

_
1.***** Casas
2.Blue Panther
3.Rush
4.Virus
5.Rey Escorpion
6.Rey Hechicero
7.Black Terry
Mascara Dorada 
Volador Jr.
Titan
Freelance
Chico Che
LA Park
Terrible
Maximo
Dinamic Black
Valiente
Namajague
Stuka Jr.
Okumura
Rey Cometa
La Sombra
Charles Lucero
Averno
Mistico_

Those guys are simply on the board.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Concrete said:


> _
> 1.***** Casas
> 2.Blue Panther
> 3.Rush
> 4.Virus
> 5.Rey Escorpion
> 6.Rey Hechicero
> 7.Black Terry
> Mascara Dorada
> Volador Jr.
> Titan
> Freelance
> Chico Che
> LA Park
> Terrible
> Maximo
> Dinamic Black
> Valiente
> Namajague
> Stuka Jr.
> Okumura
> Rey Cometa
> La Sombra
> Charles Lucero
> Averno
> Mistico_
> 
> Those guys are simply on the board.


Good list. I like them all, except for Mistico. He is not a good worker at all. Maximo isn't really either. 

All of those guys may not be top 100 but i think at least Mascara Dorada, Titán, Volador Jr, Averno, La Sombra, Rey Cometa, Freelance & Namajague deserves to be in.

As for new additions, i think you should check out Bobby Zavala, Jack Evans, Aerostar & Rey Astral.

Hope that helps


----------



## Concrete

Bobby Zavala was in that early tag match that got some positive reviews this year, right?

Mistico probably won't make it haha


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Concrete said:


> Bobby Zavala was in that early tag match that got some positive reviews this year, right?
> 
> Mistico probably won't make it haha







Yes i think so, if we are thinking the same match. However, here is another good Zavala match.

Also check my earlier post, i edited it.


----------



## Concrete

Aerostar is someone I've wanted to watch more. Like a lot more. Everything I hear is crazy.

Thanks for the Zavala match.


----------



## Rah

The thing is, Maximo is working his "gimmick" perfectly. He's been pretty good/decent in the last few matches but I don't think he'd make a list. Same like Drago. I've only seen two matches (so I cannot make any comment) but he was phenomenal in both; working a high-flyer in one and the mat in the other.


***** Navarro and Las Traumas would make my top 10, I think. Trauma II, anyway. Both are such class to watch.


----------



## Concrete

I don't think I've watched enough of either. Any recommendations for matches from Navarro or Traumas?


----------



## Rah

Pretty much anything. Have you seen the Angel/911/Trauma II losers advance matches? The second is phenomenal.










Las Traumas Vs Valiente/Virus (it's JIP but it's so great)






This should be watched for Trauma II






Really short and marred by an iffy finish but this (and the Panther + friends match from his 35th Anniversary) should be enough of a hint at his ability


----------



## Concrete

Seen losers advance and the 35th Anni match but nothing else. Those are now on my to watch with a bunch of Strong BJ stuff


----------



## Rah

Skip the Strong BJ. Take it from me, it's all pretty much shit.


----------



## Concrete

LIES! Strong BJ multi-man matches are fantastic in my book. Crazy stiffness. Fits of no-selling that I get passed. Get on the K-Hash bandwagon kids.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Just made another highlight video. This show totally sucked but it was next on my watch list.. A truckload of botches and a pretty cool triple dive is all this show had.


----------



## Punkhead

I guess it's a thing with AAA, that it gets much better before PPVs than after them.



Concrete said:


> Aerostar is someone I've wanted to watch more. Like a lot more. Everything I hear is crazy.


If you're still interested:


----------



## USAUSA1

Disappointed in the wrestling community not showing enough attention to CMLL 80th anniversary. This is a big deal for pro wrestling. 80 years.


----------



## Punkhead

USAUSA1 said:


> Disappointed in the wrestling community not showing enough attention to CMLL 80th anniversary. This is a big deal for pro wrestling. 80 years.


Longest running pro wrestling promotion ever.


----------



## USAUSA1

And they will be around forever, good thing about Mexico. Owning your own arena is a plus.


----------



## Punkhead

USAUSA1 said:


> And they will be around forever, good thing about Mexico. Owning your own arena is a plus.


I know it's a cliché, but DID IT HELP TNA? 

Seriously though, CMLL, as well as lucha libre itself, will last forever.


----------



## Concrete

I think Universal owned the "Impact Zone" but I am going to a show on Friday so I'll miss the Anniversary Live but I can't wait until it hits the interweb. Show looks like it could be marvelous stuff. Hopefully Casas is alright and ready to go.


----------



## 777

Word on the street is that the Anniversario show will be streaming free on Terra.mx.


----------



## USAUSA1

Enjoy listening to cubsfan and Robviper podcast from Mexico. They made the trip from Chicago and Canada.


----------



## Chingo Bling

Its about to start.

http://deportes.terra.com.mx/en-vivo/16870/


----------



## USAUSA1

Awesome main event, Volador Jr actually look more marketable without the mask.


----------



## Proc

I dont follow CMLL too closely in recent times, but try to somewhat keep in touch with what is going on. Watched the show tonight on the free link the Wrestling Observer gave out and it worked great for me (came home late so missed the beginning). Overall enjoyed the show, by no means show of the year or anything like that but definitely worth my time. Enjoyed the main event quite a lot.


----------



## Chingo Bling

Its hard to follow the promotion since its lost their TV here. But I've tried to keep up with the results. I mean, I'm not going to watch the 4/5 tvs to see whats going on. Still if you've watched anything within the last 6 months you'll know whats going on.

That show just drained me. It was a very stacked card.

Super hot crowd, completely propelled the show through the first 3 matches, and then the Panther/Averno that went for a long time, iced them a bit. But having the big Atlantis/UG snatched away from them, made them turn on the show, and that did affect the matches. Kinda sad but, either way they got their moneys worth.

The heat for Casas/Rush was incredible.

Terrible in Guapo Shocker ring jacket lol

Porky tope!

It was a great show top to bottom. Mask match delivered. Isn't Sombra working more a Japanese style match? anyways, I originally thought Volador was going to drop the mask, and he would take on a black Mistico gimmick, I dont think this a permanent thing.


----------



## pgi86

Man, I don't think I've ever seen a crowd turn on a show quite like they did with the CMLL anniversary show. As soon as the mask vs. mask tag match qualifier ended they were PISSED OFF (and the boos and "fraud" chants went on and on), and rightfully so. On a more positive note, however, there was a lot of good wrestling on this show and the main event in particular was just amazing (if you dig that sort of match that is). Those two guys just killed each other trying to win that crowd and the fact that toward the second part of the match they managed to make the crowd care really speaks volumes about how good those two guys are. Most wrestlers wouldn't have been able to make a hostile crowd like that buy into their falls finishes and show support. So, overall thumbs up for the actual show but thumbs way down for CMLL's bait-and-switch shenanigans with Atlantis/UG. 

P.S. Oh, and I should mention this too - Rush is outstanding. Such damn good rudo. I can only imagine how crazy good he will be in a few years once he gets more experience and turns into a full-on rudo.


----------



## Punkhead

Holy shit!



Spoiler: 80th Anniversario



I really expected Atlantis vs Ultimo Guerrero apuesta match, with UG losing. Volador Jr. mask loss was really unexpected.


----------



## Punkhead

Does anybody know if TheCubsFan already rated the La Sombra vs Volador Jr. match (considering he was there live)?


----------



## 777

Arrgh. I crashed out last night and missed the show.
Goddamit!


----------



## Punkhead

777 said:


> Arrgh. I crashed out last night and missed the show.
> Goddamit!


Here you go:



Spoiler: Youtube video











I haven't watched it myself yet, but I sure will in a few hours.

EDIT: I put it in spoiler tags, because the thumbnail might be a slight spoiler.


----------



## 777

OK, so I've seen the ME now. First and foremost, great Lucha Libre action throughout.



Spoiler: My Thoughts



There are a couple of ways to look at the booking here. Ultimately, I was hoping for Atlantis to drop the mask and move into a veteran position similar to Blue Panther. One could see this as the old guard refusing to give up their masks just yet, although I'm really hoping CMLL doesn't wait too long to pull the trigger. I guess their loss and failure to make the ME could be another log on the fire of their personal feud.

On the other hand, the tag portion was relatively short, and I personally enjoyed the focus being placed on the younger generation. They held up their end and delivered a great match.

Although I believe that long-term, Volador's mask should have been kept (I'm sure he got a decent pay-off) I was still pleased with the matches.


----------



## Chingo Bling

Found this on twitter


----------



## Rah

I'm trying to remain spoiler-free with regard to the Anniversario show with the obvious exception of:


Spoiler: match result



Volador losing his mask. There's no way I could ever avoid that. I'm, honestly, shocked it happened, though. When Sombra challenged him, a few months ago, I laughed at the possibility of that even happening and now look where we are. I'm sure Atlantis/UG sold more of the show but the "swerve" (in the sense that the older guys were so heavily pre-empted to main) was brilliant in of itself. I'm sure others would disagree but I'm happy an anniversario ended with the focus on the young talent, and rocketing Sombra up there. Atlantis/UG aspuestas will draw well and could headline any show, in future, easily. I'll assume CMLL went for the possibility of two large pay-cheques under the UG/Atlantis name, but Sombra/Volador should be a good enough match, regardless. We've seen it a good few times before but, within that atmosphere, it could be something completely fresh




I hope a link for the show finds its way online, soon.


----------



## Punkhead

I was really shocked to see the two younger guys in the main event. Really expected Ultimo Guerrero to lose his mask. The apuesta match was really intense and great lucha action.

On an unrelated note, after more than two years of watching lucha libre, I only now noticed that tag matches are elimination.


----------



## Chingo Bling

I was shocked more than anything watching it unravel. This is gonna intrigue people though to want to see where their going to go. The table was set for that match, now another 6 months atleast of build to a possible match at what? Homenaje a Dos Leyendas? In March?

How great would it be if they are finally going to do it, but then Rush comes barking in the press confrence to be inserted into the match, putting his hair on the line. epic troll


The other reason for doing Sombra/Volador instead probably is financial. They would have to give UG/Atlantis more than what Volador got, I assume and no ppv revenue? If they sold out at those ticket prices, for sure they can get more when they really do it, and put it on PPV.


----------



## Rah

Rush wouldn't/shouldn't do an aspuestas outside of anyone but Casas. UG/Atlantis can draw the fans, but the real money (for me) is in this match.



Latigo Blanco, Bobby Rios, Little Cholo y Virus Vs El Valiente, Amazing Jr, La Flecha Fugas y Extreme Tiger (08/09/2013 UIPW) - even in some crummy Los Angeles arena, in front of a couple dozen fans, Valiente and Virus rule the world in terms of mat-based wrestling. The rest of the guys aren't that bad, either, but this really is nowhere near high-end stuff. Just a basic local indy inviting two great wrestlers in for about 15 minutes of fun. Nothing wrong with that, at all, though.


----------



## Punkhead

R.I.P. Gemelo de la Muerte II. He was only 25 years old.


----------



## Punkhead

DTU Episode 1 is here! Been waiting for this.


----------



## Punkhead

Watched DTU. First two matches remind me of IWL too much. The main event between Flamita and Rich Swann was something. Great match. Looking forward for the next episode.


----------



## USAUSA1

I personally loving the Psycho Clown vs. Texano Jr build.


----------



## 777

Considering that it's Psycho Clown thrown into a main event angle...hell yeah, shit's coming of swell. Also a big fan of the current Mexican Powers incarnation. Niño Hamburguesa is a breath of fresh air.


----------



## Rah

I managed to find a watchable link to the 80th Aniversario show and I must admit that I loved it. Almost everything delivered and was, at the very least, exceptionally fun to witness. The only letdown was the Relevos Suicidas match between the vets and Sombra/Volador. I honestly don't mind the outcome but the entire match could have been done so much better and just felt so rushed. When the pin came I almost double-took on whether it was over or not. Still, the opener (however weird it was seeing Ishii not play an underdog) and the Super Porky match were decent, while everything else fired on all cylinders. Los Estetas del Aire are the shit, the Rush/Casas trios was unbelievably good while Panther/Averno was all kinds of awesome thanks, in part, to the talent of Panther. I wouldn't put it up there with Lucero/Hechicero but it certainly does behold some beautiful matwork and most certainly requires a plug in the MotY thread. Sombra/Volador have had much better matches in the past, but props to Volador in regaining the thoroughly pissed off crowd into the final. Of course they were unhappy with the result, but some appreciation after their initial reaction is almost a godsend.




TomasThunder619 said:


> Watched DTU. First two matches remind me of IWL too much. The main event between Flamita and Rich Swann was something. Great match. Looking forward for the next episode.


Any link on that? I could enjoy a pairing like that, especially considering Swann is quickly winning me over.


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> Any link on that? I could enjoy a pairing like that, especially considering Swann is quickly winning me over.


Just a few posts above you


----------



## OrangeMachismo1

Are there any lucha shows on TV anymore?


----------



## Punkhead

OrangeMachismo1 said:


> Are there any lucha shows on TV anymore?


Depends on where you live.


----------



## 777

We don't get lucha on regular Canadian television, so I usually gotta stick to youtube and the like.

http://www.youtube.com/user/luchalibreaaatv

Easy to keep track through this one. Luchablog is pretty good for CMLL stuff.


----------



## sXeMope

Happened to tune into Raw for the first time in over a year. Pretty sure they put Mascarita Dorada with the Matador gimmick that Primo and Epico are doing.


----------



## Rah

He's the "bull of legend", yeah. NOW I NEED TO WATCH RAW.


----------



## Punkhead

Can't wait to see Raw :mark:


----------



## Punkhead

Spoiler to those who haven't seen Raw:



Spoiler: Raw



So apparently, Mascarita Sagrada is El Torito now. Espectrito used this name in WWF in 1997/1998.


----------



## sXeMope

I saw people on Twitter last night who thought it was Hornswoggle in a bull costume. How they came to that conclusion is beyond me. Dorada/Sagrada (Same person?) looks much more correctly proportioned than Hornswoggle, and from seeing Hornswoggle move, there's no way he'd be able to do that.

That makes me curious: What exactly is a "mini"? Is it someone with a disease that makes them small (ie: Hornswoggle) or is it just a naturally small guy?


----------



## Punkhead

A mini is, I think, someone who's shorter than 1 m 50 cm, not just midgets. And by the way, Mascarita Sagrada and Mascarita Dorada is not the same person.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

TomasThunder619 said:


> A mini is, I think, someone who's shorter than 1 m 50 cm, not just midgets. And by the way, Mascarita Sagrada and Mascarita Dorada is not the same person.


There are luchadors as tall as 1,70 cm who works as minis.


----------



## Rah

Guerrero Maya Jr Vs Virus (29/09/2013 CMLL) - If you haven't noticed by now, Virus is a really high-end guy when it comes to lucha matwork. Hell, he's really good at being a luchadore, in general. I'm not particular high on Guerrero, I assume I've always watched the wrong matches of his, but he kept up for some of this here. I still think he came into the match as if he was controlled by a PS2 Smackdown Vs Raw simulator in that he'd hit a move, taunt, then hit another, but he came into his own outside of those moments. Due to the time restriction this seemed to end abruptly without gaining its own sense of pace. Hopefully the title match next week will be the star outing that this could be. Then, again, Niebla/Valiente should be a good match, too. Who cares, though, Virus and Valiente need as much TV time as possible.

Aerostar & Drago vs Cuervo & Escoria vs Eterno & Steve Pain (26/09/2013 AAA) - I went into this wanting a Drago + Aerostar showcase. What I was given, rather, was a lot of Steve Pain and Cuervo. Meh. At least what little time Drago and Aero received was used pretty well in generating some spectacular moves. The match, though, wasn't really much and just existed. It wasn't bad but nothing more than anything good. I wouldn't recommend going out your way to watch this, unless you're a fan of La Secta Bizarra Cibernetica (TomasThunder619!) making run-ins and beating down everyone. The run-in was kind of ruined by Drago in that he was facing them as they ran to the ring yet still acted as if he never noticed them (with chairs in hand) and turned away from them even as they entered the ring IN HIS SIGHT. fpalm

Trauma I & Trauma II vs Hijo de Máscara Año 2000 & Oficial 911 (27/09/2013 IWRG) - There are few things that complete a shitty Rayo De Jalisco match quite like Máscara Año 2000. I'll assume Hijo is actually his son as the fat, useless piece of shit certainly shows a comparable quality to his "father". The match was a pain to watch; nothing gelled and nothing seemed to pique. 911 trying to get the better of Las Traumas was, sadly, cut short by Máscara Año 2000 Jr stealing the spotlight in his attempt to Abby his way to victory via the use of a fork. The match got another wind after 911 tried to cause a foul on Trauma II as II took no shit afterwards and went full ape on the Oficial. Of course the match hits an all-time low once it finally picks up thanks to Máscara Año 2000 just fucking leaving for no reason at all. This causes Trauma I and 911 to leave only for II to stay at ringside looking lost. The two better wrestlers finally return from backstage, at different times, and the match continues. A little while later Máscara returns and seems to now be wearing a shirt. Yes, he went backstage, midmatch, TO FUCKING CHANGE HIS CLOTHES. Sigh.

Dinastía Vs Mini Abismo ***** (29/09/2013 AAA) - Not something you haven't seen before. Basically continuous backflips from Dinastía while Mini Abismo ***** gets the feigned comeback with a Tiger Driver. Of Course that doesn't keep the champion down for long, and he's back up in *****'s face to deliver the winning Spanish Fly. Still, it's a fun way to kill 15 minutes. Poor video quality, and the Youtube link doesn't work. Sendspace is your alternative.


----------



## Punkhead

Just watched the full show with Minis title match. Good quality posted on AAA's official Youtube channel.


----------



## Rah

I had assumed it would be up there but I wasn't sure when. Eh, I won't watch it again so it makes no difference.


----------



## Punkhead

And by the way, that tag team 3-way match was really typical AAA style match with only Drago and Aerostar saving it from being bad.


----------



## 777

I was impressed by Steve Pain's highspots as well, plus that 'Canadian Destroyer'-esque nearfall by Escoria. It had it's moments.


----------



## Punkhead

I've read on TheCubsFan, that people in Mexico hate Rush and La Sombra. Why is that?


----------



## Obfuscation

My guess is b/c Rush sucks. But that's my two cents.

Sombra is a surprise. That's a talented cat.


----------



## 777

TomasThunder619 said:


> I've read on TheCubsFan, that people in Mexico hate Rush and La Sombra. Why is that?


I just figured Rush was natural at getting heat. It's one of my favorite aspects of the guy.


----------



## Rah

It's the Cena effect for Sombra. A young guy with a good body that the ladies adore while the adolescent to young male demographic loathe. I suppose the booking might not go down well with the older guys, either. That aniversario outcome isn't going to do him favours. Rush works the crowd better than almost anyone and is such a douchebag that the crowd just have to hate him. There's a specific reason that they won't swap his allegiance; give him a rudo gimmick and the adolescent men will be cheering the shit out of him. He's mentioned that, himself.


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> It's the Cena effect for Sombra. A young guy with a good body that the ladies adore while the adolescent to young male demographic loathe. I suppose the booking might not go down well with the older guys, either. That aniversario outcome isn't going to do him favours. Rush works the crowd better than almost anyone and is such a douchebag that the crowd just have to hate him. There's a specific reason that they won't swap his allegiance; give him a rudo gimmick and the adolescent men will be cheering the shit out of him. He's mentioned that, himself.


And because he took Volador's mask, people only started to hate him even more. And yeah, I guess the people just love to hate Rush. And when he fucks up they boo louder than they cheer some tecnicos.


----------



## USAUSA1

Rush is good but his heat is genuine hate.


----------



## Chingo Bling

Shit, Dr Wagner Jr was reportedly assaulted outside his home, with a knife. 

Warning link has graphic pic of wound
http://superluchas.net/2013/10/08/d...d&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Superluchas

He's really lucky those thugs weren't packed.

Just to give some of you a clue how sensationalist Mexicans are. They are blaming AAA for putting a hit on him. 
Over a name...


----------



## Punkhead

Chingo Bling said:


> Shit, Dr Wagner Jr was reportedly assaulted outside his home, with a knife.
> 
> Warning link has graphic pic of wound
> http://superluchas.net/2013/10/08/d...d&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Superluchas
> 
> He's really lucky those thugs weren't packed.
> 
> Just to give some of you a clue how sensationalist Mexicans are. They are blaming AAA for putting a hit on him.
> Over a name...


Ouch! Poor Wagner. Why would somebody just assault him? I know how big crime in Mexico is, but whoever did this obviously targeted exactly him. What did they need from Dr. Wagner Jr.?


----------



## Rah

Well, if you want to believe Santo then AAA ordered a hit on him following the bullshit that's surrounding the filing of a trademark on the Dr Wagner Jr name in America. Seems a bit trivial (in the context of the ensuing violence) to murder someone over, though.


----------



## Rah

I've pimped the Maya/Virus match, already, but that and the Aniversario repeats are the only things worth watching from this week. More videos via Cubsfan.

***** Casas, Shocker, Terrible vs Marco Corleone, Rush, Vangelis (13/09/2013 CMLL) - Bueno, bueno, bueno, bueno, BUENO! This is the third viewing I've had of this and it's still as fun as the first. The violence between both Casas and Rush supercedes previous iterations here and they absolutely kill each other with some of their moves. CMLL better act fast in putting out their aspuesta match as these guys are going to die before it's too late. I mean, Rush uses the momentum of Casas' attempted rana from the turnbuckle to dump him, backfirst, onto the guard rail. FUCKING OW. While the rest of the guys were good, the overarching feel wasn't as good as the 28/06 trios masterpiece. Still, we're treated to nutty bumps and good sprint-work. Oh, yeah, Rush only works shoot-headbutts and dropkicks. Why? Because he can.


Blue Panther Vs Averno (13/09/2013 CMLL) - This is some swell matwork thanks to the wizard that is Blue Panther. Everything is crisp and intricate and nothing comes off as wasted energy. I'm probably a bigger Averno apologist than most yet he wasn't very strong here. By that I do not mean he was bad, I'd have just hoped that he wasn't as diluted as he was in this. Thumbs up for the Tirantes addition. Him and his manly straps need to make geriatric drama more often.


La Máscara & Rush Vs Dragón Rojo Jr. & Rey Escorpión (05/10/2013 CMLL) - very loud, male crowd here that evidently hate the living shit out of Mascara. I know he got jealousy-heat but this is pretty loud. The same crowd pretty much don't stop hating Rush whenever he's working Rojo, either. The turn of control could have been worked better but you probably shouldn't be expecting much from a tournament match like this.


Kráneo & Morphosis vs La Máscara & Rush (05/10/2013 CMLL) - A bit of a comedy element here with Mije. Rush is most probably the hitman AAA paid to take out Wagner, if his work on Kráneo before the match started was anything to go by. Morphosis has a terrible as fuck delayed dropkick. This goes less than three minutes before Rush kills Mije and his team pick up the win.



La Máscara & Rush vs Felino & Mr. Niebla (05/10/2013 CMLL) - There are very few people in the world that hate others as much as Niebla does. No shits given, he'll just slap the skin right off your face for being in his vision. Not much else to see here.



Virus Vs Guerrero Maya Jr (06/10/2013 CMLL) - Now these are submissions that I like; little additions to every hold is something that just cannot be beaten, frankly. Guerrero was also on top of his game, here, and perhaps indicative of why others were so high of him. The kidney punch while he has Virus in an armlock and grinding his forearm into Virus' shoulder socket while he wrenches the champ's arm out of it was so great. As, too, was his selling. He realises his chance to break the arm lock is to be fast and violent but the ripping free hurts his arm more and boy does he sell that. The first fall comes quick enough, though, and while Maya is showing promise, he isn't going to out-wrestle Virus and his beautiful submissions. Where the fuck do you think the second fall goes? Onto the mat, of course. YES! This is the environ in which Virus shines and offers Maya an interesting foil dynamic in his more hard-hitting transitions into subs. I bet Guerrero wished he had kept it more to the mat once the third fall started, though, as it looked like he completely fucked his neck up on that dive. He quickly returns the favour by throwing his body off the top-rope, side-ways, into Virus' head in the hopes of decapitating Virus' at the expense of his own body which pretty much just splats onto the hard floor. Virus, too, is immensely agile for a bulky man in his mid-forties as he pulls off some of the slickest high-speed moves of the match (a list that includes a sliced bread #2 from the ground onto the apron and turnbuckle; NUTS). I see now on LuchaWiki that they had an immense match back in 2011 that I should watch to tie this up (Cubsfan makes note of a play back to that match during the final stretch) but this certainly holds on its own both in terms of narrative and as a top-placer in the list of great lucha matches of this year.


La Sombra, Marco Corleone, Rush vs Mr. Niebla, ***** Casas, Volador Jr. (05/10/2013 CMLL) - so, Volador and Rush are captains yet both gets the opposite reaction to how they're "technically" booked. While Rush, the tecnico, gets booed, the rudo Volador basically spends his time shaking hands with fans at ringside and pulling off the high-stage dives. The first fall isn't much, quite honestly, and is basically won after Vola lathargically gets into the ring, hits a single move on Sombra and takes the pin. The second fall is really short, too, with the only highlight (and of the match to this point, too) is Rush now taking the diving Casas and powerbombing onto the hard floor. The third is basically an exhibition for Vola/Sombra, Corleone/Niebla and Rush/Casas. Both Vola/Sombra and Casas/Rush deliver, though, so that's at least something; especially considering how dime-a-dozen they could rather be at this point


Dr. Wagner Jr. Vs LA Park Vs Canek (03/10/2013 IWRG) - Sigh. Can't Canek stick to ruining matches that I have no interest in? Park/Wagner is a sweet brawl possibility at every turn yet his presence in it pretty much ensures this doesn't keep its momentum. Speaking of ruining matches, Canek and Rayo haven't made tape together in a while. It's about time they team up against Mascara & Universo 2000 to create another trash match.


----------



## Mon Joxley

For anyone who's confused, El Torito is Mascarita Dorada, not Sagrada. He did however use the name Mascarita Sagrada 2000, which maybe where the confusion lies. The original Mascarita Sagrada (who wrestled in the WWE in 1997/1998 as Mini Nova and again briefly in 2006 in the failed juniors division as Sagrada) is 48 years old. Dorada/El Torito didn't start wrestling until 2000.


----------



## Rah

Máximo, Stuka Jr., Super Porky vs Dragón Rojo Jr., Pólvora, Rey Escorpión (04/10/2013 CMLL) - I laughed my ass off when Escorpión made an attack on Porky during his entrance. Watching Porky scream and attempt to move his obese body as fast as he could away from the running rudo was hilariously spectacular. Even more spectacular a sight than Escorpión strangling Porky with his towel. Rey must have thought he was in TxT, considering the way he was gnawing into Porky's forehead and just punching the shit out of his head. CMLL no-blood rules be damned, he wanted A BRAWL. Tigre Hispano gets mad that no one will respect his authority and starts pushing Escorpión as if he's forgotten he's a geriatric referee now. Of course Tigre continues to take no shit and DQ's Rey for excessive violence in the first caida only to push Rey into more anger-driven violence with punches and slaps that knocks the spit out of Porky (literally!). Stuka pulls off a fantastic feigned-dive in which he seemingly whisps through the air in opposite direction to what your eyes are tellin you he's moving. That blue man always makes me smile.

Porky/Escorp aren't near Rush/Casas in terms of their violence but I'm openly welcoming their feud now. Apparently their match in coming weeks will allow closed fists so hopefully that goes even more nutty.


----------



## USAUSA1

Australian Suicide is no Aerostar but he looks decent. Putting him with Jack Evans and Angelico is a great start.


----------



## Punkhead

USAUSA1 said:


> Australian Suicide is no Aerostar but he looks decent. Putting him with Jack Evans and Angelico is a great start.


I think he still needs to brush off his moves. Looked a bit sloppy in his debut, but showed some great moves. I have faith in him. Also, looking forward to the AAA re-packaging gimmicks in near future.


----------



## USAUSA1

He probably was a little nervous. I think they brought him in because they need more guys that speak English for the US debut.


----------



## Snapdragon

Wait is there really a wrestler named Australian Suicide?


----------



## USAUSA1

Yes, I forgot his real name.

Can't wait too see this match. I hope they go all out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWW5Tof9tTU


----------



## USAUSA1

They just talk about him on Konnan podcast with Lance Storm. His name is Brodderick or Roderick, 20 years old and was trained by Lance Storm.


----------



## Mon Joxley

He's actually 21 or 22 years old. His real name is Broderick, he wrestled in Australia under the name Ryan Rollins. Been wrestling since 2005, got further training from Carlo Cannon (one of Lance's students from his first class) and then from Lance Storm in 2011 or 2012 I believe.

The guy's got talent. I've seen him in person a few times before, he's damn good. The gimmick he has right now is kind of stupid, especially considering his mask and costume look more like the British flag than the Australian flag (Union Jack is not Australian at all).







This is about one of the only videos you'd find on him. There's a few matches here and there as well as a few promos. He had a heel run in this one promotion called Melbourne City Wrestling that was great.


----------



## USAUSA1

Its good that he's traveling the world and gaining experience, that's how guys get great.


----------



## Rah

Chilanga Mask made tape (finally!) so here's what you need to get on to right now:








Spoiler: show listing
















And, here's the next show card:










:mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark:


----------



## Punkhead

AAA posted on their Facebook, that El Brazo died. R.I.P.


----------



## RoosterSmith

You guys hear about this Ecuadorian Promotion, WAR? 

Just watched the first show and thought it was kind of groovy. 










And nothing to do with anything, but it seems like Tommy Dreamer pops up everywhere eventually. 






Had to cancel but I guess he'll be back. Wonder how a coflict of schedule like that would come up. Perhaps the movie date wasn't set in stone? 

Anyway, I don't get to watch a lot of Lucha Libre so very happy to find this little promotion. Maybe it's less Lucha and more Sports Entertainment though, looking back. Good to see they do the story stuff between and during matches.


----------



## USAUSA1

Can't wait too see Heroes Immortales VII



Spoiler: results



AAA TV (FRI) 10/18/2013 Gimnasio Miguel Hidalgo de Puebla 
***Heroes Inmortales VII***
1) Cuervo, Mamba, Mary Apache, Mini Abismo ***** b El Elegido, Faby Apache, Octagoncito, Pimpinela Escarlata
Official results do not list Mamba & Pimpi, but they’re visible in pictures. Cuervo distracted Faby and Mary beat her. Cuervo cut off part of Faby’s hair and has a bounty on the rest.
2) Fénix b El Mesías and Monsther Clown and Silver King [Copa Antonio Pena, semifinal]
Changed to first block. La Secta caused Mesias to get beat. Fenix beat Silver King for the win.
3) Hijo del Fantasma b Octagón, Daga, Axel, Pentagón Jr. [Copa Antonio Pena, semifinal]
Block originally listed a mystery luchador, which was quietly listed to be Blue Demon Jr. Prior to the match, Consejo introduced their newest member – Hijo del Fantasma! Pentagon Jr. was also added to the match for reasons unclear (or at least probably was added, since the final results do not list him; he could’ve just been harassing Octagon.) There was no explanation of why Blue Demon Jr. was listed or why he wasn’t there. Silver King helped Fantasma the match. Fantasma beat Daga to win.
4) La Parka b Parka Negra II, Electroshock, Máscara Año 2000 Jr. [Copa Antonio Pena, semifinal]
Mascara and Electroshock were out first. Zorro ‘returned’, and AAA played up that he and Parka Negra were in the same place. (Zorro had been playing the role of Parka Negra, so this was a surprise for people who knew.) Zorro appeared to still be crazy and tossed his cane in, but seemingly to no one in particular. La Parka got it and got the win.
5) Chessman b Cibernético and el Hijo del Perro Aguayo and Psicosis [Copa Antonio Pena, semifinal]
La Secta attacked everyone. Perro & Cibernetico got counted out due to the attack and are now friends again. Chessman beat Psicosis with a spear.
6) Angélico & Jack Evans b Crazy Boy & Joe Lider and Espíritu & Scoria and Aerostar & Drago [AAA TAG]
Espiritu has a new face paint style, while Aerostar had a new outfit. Joe Lider & Crazy Boy are champions. Pentagon Jr. & Ultimo Gladiador were listed on the original poster, but Espiritu & Scoria are apparently in instead after winning a three way in SLP. Juvi accompanied the Mexican Powers to the ring. Mexican Powers beat Drago & Aerostar, Secta lost after Perro & Cibernetico attacked, and Angelico & Jack won when Juvi shoved Lider off the top rope thru a table and hit Crazy Boy with a chair. Juvi revealed a new shirt with “A” apocalypse symbol.
7) Texano Jr. b Psycho Clown [AAA HEAVY]
Psycho wore gold and silver arm sleeves in tribute to El Brazo, while Texano was dressed up like his father when he was part of the Misionerios de la Muerte. Murder and Hijo del Fantasma worked as seconds. Referee issues, near falls and lots of blood. Texano beat Psycho with a powerbomb to keep his title. Texano’s ninth defense.
8) La Parka b Fénix, Hijo del Fantasma, Chessman [Copa Antonio Pena]
Eliminations went Chessman, Fenix and Fantasma, leaving Parka as the winner when he armbarred Fantasma. Parka was carried around by Cibernetico, Octagon, Mesias and Electroshock, then posed with the Roldans and the Pena urn. Final seemed absurdly quick on Twitter (though the show still finished past 12:30am local.)

El Brazo and Antonio Pena were honored before the show.

Air Date: 10/26 and 11/02, give or take.

Credit: TheCubsFan


----------



## jarrelka

Have just gotten into mexican wrestling and just watched AAA triplemania 2013. Can anyone recommend any good ppvs? Available on piratebay or Youtube? Doesnt have to be AAA, it can be CMJL (spelling) or smaller organisations.


----------



## Rah

CMLL 80th Anniversary, considering it's both recent and good from start to finish. Matches are linked in the match titles.


----------



## Not Lying

Just want to ask a question
How can I start watching Lucha Libre wrestling?
I am huge fan of high-flying technical fast-paced wrestling( which seems to be the lucha libre wrestling type usually), when are new shows uploaded on youtube? how do I get into characters if I don't speak the language ( just asking if also someone watches and doesn't speak the language, how does he do it?) ..


----------



## USAUSA1

AAA official page, they upload the weekly show every week.http://www.youtube.com/user/luchalibreaaatv/videos

All lucha http://www.youtube.com/user/luchablog/videos

Another all lucha page http://www.youtube.com/user/LuchaLibreDeMexico/videos

Everything is updated daily from Mexico.


----------



## Rah

Cubsfan uploads the weekly shows every Tuesday. He also posts, daily, with regard to news, stories and results from a whole host of different promotions. Luchadores are also colour coded for easy reference (green = tecnico/face while red = rudo/heel). He's also got a best of 2013 list going while his show reviews are always an interesting read (with great gifs!)


----------



## USAUSA1

I am listening to Konnan on MLW radio right now and here is some interesting things he said so far about AAA coming to the US:

1. Univision invested $200 million in the network

2. Time Warner pick up the El Rey network

3. AAA will most likely debut in March

4. They might change the name of AAA

5. There will probably be a reality show leading up to the debut of AAA

6. AAA will become corporate


----------



## Chingo Bling

> etrbaby


Im just scratching the surface on Japanese wrestling. How I got into it was basically watching a NJPW ppv and got hooked. I started looking up guys, reading their wookiepedia and watching some of the matches of guys I liked or heard were good. ie Misawa. I'll learn what his moves are, how he works normally, his character. It makes the matches much more entertaining and you'll understand it more. 

check it out http://www.luchawiki.com/index.php?title=Main_Page


So Univision stuck their hand in it?, my expectations for AAA USA have sunk. Who knows how that corporate umbrella will affect the show.


----------



## Rah

No Rush or Casas this week, sadly. Rush terrorising Bullet Club might have been a fun addition to the list but I doubt it would be any much good so it failing to make tape is fine by me. I just hope that Porky/Escorpion tag that got lost wasn't of much value, either. I'll probably get on to the Valiente/UG and Virus trios at a later point, purely for Valiente and Virus, and maybe the Black Terry match but nothing else seemed worth the watch.


Aerostar, Octagoncito, Pimpinela Escarlata vs Black Mamba, Gran Apache, Mini Histeria (02/10/2013 AAA) - Pimpi sucks and makes up far too much of the action; even with the heels beating him down, I couldn't enjoy his segments. That said, this match isn't much, and it should never have been. I swear I'll find a really good exhibition match for Aerostar one of these weeks...


Angélico, Australian Suicide, Jack Evans vs Carta Brava Jr., Eterno, Steve Pain (02/10/2013 AAA) - I can see why Australian Suicide was lumped with Angelico and Evans. He's an imported talent that loves acrobatics more than wrestling. I see him getting over tremendously because of that unless Carta Brava's dropkicks don't take his head off. Speaking of dancing, I'm glad someone finally kicked the shit out of Evans while doing his stupid breakdancing. Heels run rampant and brawl, the faces bring spots that are either obviously choreographed or well done and the crowd go hoarse in screaming out their excitement. Typical match for these two trios but I'm not putting my thumbs down toward it. I don't want to list Evans nor Angelico as guilty pleasures but these matches are becoming pretty fun to watch on the weekly.


Trauma I & Trauma II Vs Alberto Dos Rios & Hijo De Centurion ***** (13/10/2013 Noches de Coliseo) - couple matches in and I can safely say that I'm mostly surprised by Alberto Dos Rios. Normal logic should dictate that ripoff gimmicks in Monterrey mean terrible wrestlers but he's actually pretty decent/good. This is in no way a match, as far as I'm concerned, but an exhibition of two teams applying moves to show off to the crowd and win their support in beating their opponents. Kind of like a WWF bikini contest just with decent matwork instead of boobs falling out of clothing.


Cerebro ***** & Dr. Cerebro vs Estrella Dorada Jr. & Silver Star (13/10/2013 Noches de Coliseo) - this is worked like a proper match more than the previous but eh. Didn't get too far into this, quite honestly.


Dr. Wagner Jr. Vs LA Park (29/09/2013 TxT) - where's Canek when you need him? I actually cannot believe I had to say that, as that's the furthest thing from my desires as anything that isn't Rayo De Jalisco and friends. At least if he was in this there'd be a scapegoat to lay the blame on, though, because this sucked. Badly. This had nothing on their first match and came across as nothing more than spot-running laziness. The fact that Wagner just hung around while Park girated to the crowd and wasted time is indicative enough of just how failed this came as being a violent brawl. SKIP.


Máscara Dorada, Mistico, Valiente vs Dragón Rojo Jr., Pólvora, Rey Escorpión (07/10/2013 CMLL) - fuck what you want, Valiente is going to start every match off with SWANK~! matwork and skill, even if it's against a man like Rojo. All hell breaks lose when Mistico thinks Valiente needs to be saved from a headlock, though, and this becomes a spotty match worthy of anyone's viewing. Dammit if Escorpión wasn't trying to make up for the Rush/Casas violence with his badassery, though. What a wonderful, wonderful man. Dorada also makes up for a lacking Aerostar performance. BLISS.


----------



## Mon Joxley

Rah said:


> I can see why Australian Suicide was lumped with Angelico and Evans. He's an imported talent that loves acrobatics more than wrestling. I see him getting over tremendously because of that unless Carta Brava's dropkicks don't take his head off.


He's also buddies with Teddy Hart and Jack Evans, who I imagine introduced him to Konnan


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Here is my highlight video of CMLL: 7/17/12 @ Arena Mexico!


----------



## Concrete

Why does LA Park vs Dr.Wagner Jr. want to hurt me so bad :-(


----------



## Punkhead

What is up with luchadors occasionally falling off the apron? In multi-man tag matches, heel minis sometimes just randomly fall off the apron. I saw it happen to Mini Abismo ***** and thought it was an accident, but then I saw Mini Histeria do it too. Is this a thing for mini rudos?


----------



## Máscara Dorada

TomasThunder619 said:


> What is up with luchadors occasionally falling off the apron? In multi-man tag matches, heel minis sometimes just randomly fall off the apron. I saw it happen to Mini Abismo ***** and thought it was an accident, but then I saw Mini Histeria do it too. Is this a thing for mini rudos?


Mr. Niebla does it too. It's just a comedy thing really.


----------



## USAUSA1

Caught part of 1 of Heroes Inmortales, the hour long version. They showed the entire tournament. I really enjoy the matches. Fenix over sold the tombstone though.


----------



## Punkhead

And what is up with Murder Clown stealing kids from the crowd? I've seen it twice now. Both times the kids' parents came and took their kids back. Is it a part of the show or don't they like that?


----------



## Máscara Dorada

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jvSy8dzgSVU

Here is a short highlight video of Mistico/Dragon Lee i made today!

TomasThunder may recognize this charming, catchy, but yet arguably horrible song that i couldn't resist to use since it fit the video and him perfectly lol! 




Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Punkhead

DoradaFan said:


> http://youtube.com/watch?v=jvSy8dzgSVU
> 
> Here is a short highlight video of Mistico/Dragon Lee i made today!
> 
> TomasThunder may recognize this charming, catchy, but yet arguably horrible song that i couldn't resist to use since it fit the video and him perfectly lol!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Sorry, but no. I didn't recognize it. And I had to google it to find out why. I don't really listen to Estonian music and especially girl bands. Props to them for mentioning Def Leppard, though.

Anyway, nice video.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

TomasThunder619 said:


> Sorry, but no. I didn't recognize it. And I had to google it to find out why. I don't really listen to Estonian music and especially girl bands. Props to them for mentioning Def Leppard, though.
> 
> Anyway, nice video.


Well i just thought they were kind of big in Lithuania too and you might recognize it. Sorry i cost you that googling  
That was like the first song they made from 2002, they would move on to make much better and stuff like this in a year:






Thanks by the way, glad you liked the video!

Also, any idea of when Venom and Ludxor is debuting? :mark:


----------



## Punkhead

DoradaFan said:


> Well i just thought they were kind of big in Lithuania too and you might recognize it. Sorry i cost you that googling
> That was like the first song they made from 2002, they would move on to make much better and stuff like this in a year:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks by the way, glad you liked the video!
> 
> Also, any idea of when Venom and Ludxor is debuting? :mark:


To be honest, I'm pretty sure a few people heard about them here in Lithuania. I haven't heard of them before.

Venum and Ludxor are debuting this Sunday (November 3). If someone didn't know, that's Nino de Ebano and Lucky Boy new identities. These gimmicks are being brought back from the 90s and were created by Antonio Pena.


----------



## CaballeroGuerrero

Wait....Swedes listen to other kinds of music than just black metal and American pop music??


----------



## Rah

I plan on watching Heroes Inmortales when it airs in full. Should I expect anything decent from Copa Antonio Pena? Tonga/Terrible Vs Mascara/Rush will be watched later, too. :mark:

Angélico, Australian Suicide, Jack Evans vs Daga, Psicosis, Steve Pain (10/10/2013 AAA) - I'm not quite sure why Daga tried to start the match on the mat with Evans. Evans' matwork is even worse than some of the work you'll see in a backyarder, Youtube fed. Stopped watching after geting halfway and realising this won't get past being boringly shit.

Ángel de Oro, La Máscara, Stuka Jr. vs Felino, Mr. Niebla, ***** Casas (25/10/2013 CMLL) - this is sort of meddling in that the hairs of the Peste Negra trio are the most exciting thing on display here. Stuka attempts to work over Casas' arm but the whole match just kind of devolves into a brawlish madness not after too long.


Máscara Dorada vs Niebla Roja (25/10/2013 CMLL) - for a spotty, rope-running match this wasn't too terrible. Dorada's Dorada so if you like what he brings in these type of matches you may enjoy some of him here. They work far too lose for me to particularly care, however.


Ángel de Oro, Máximo, Rush vs Kráneo, Tama Tonga, Vangellys (14/10/2013 CMLL) - so, yeah, this isn't a line-up I'd normally watch but Tonga and Rush going at it is worth any drawback you're given. I suppose I shouldn't say that, Vangellys always seems to shine when the chips are down. I'm not sure if I'm reaching here but it seemed he purposefully oversold Maximo's headscissor as if he was HBK working Hogan. Bless him. I've also got to love how neither tecnico nor rudo give a damn about Mije and would rather see him get hurt. Just as well, that guy needs to learn before its too late that a wrestling promotions is no place for him. The lead to the finishing stretch is really good thanks to Vangellys terrorising Maximo and the genuine care (!) of Rush to save his partner. Then the big boys play with Tonga and Rush going ape-hard on each other while the camera is so fixated on VIOLENCE that it misses two nutty bumps by Oro.


Super Porky vs Rey Escorpión (18/10/2013 CMLL) - the big match of the week and it lives up to expectation. Sort of. The selling is outstanding, the pacing is good and the package is commendable but the strikes are just too weak. That's a major problem when you're working a pseudo-MMA match. I realise they do not wish to pepper each other with legit strikes to the point that they concuss each other, but when you have others in the company working stiff this just looks like fanciful play. Both men are guilty here, too. Escorpion especially with the finishing ground-and-pound that catalysed the finish. Fleshed out a tiny bit more (this goes just on ten minutes) and with stronger action and this would be up there. Porky's work in it would have ensured it.


Aéreo, Fantasy, Stukita vs Mercurio, Pequeño Warrior, Pierrothito (22/10/2013 CMLL) - Tirantes is much too slow to keep up with their pace. There are some good concepts in this but it's not much of my cup of tea. Give me an AAA minis match any day over these. Even as much as I like a couple of the guys that CMLL have.


Fuego, Sagrado, Starman vs Namajague, Sangre Azteca, Virus (22/10/2013 CMLL) - *copy-pastes from previous review* fuck what you want, Valiente Virus is going to start every match off with SWANK~! matwork and skill, even if it's against a man like Rojo Fuego. The only difference to last week's Valiente match is that Virus allows Fuego to take the control and lead which is an interesting point, considering Fuego is more a guy for the sky. I'm almost dismayed that I haven't had much reason to watch more Namajague lately as he really impressed me leading up to his aspuestas match but he doesn't seem to get much of a highlight when he does pop up in matches I watch. Iffy match at times and I'm slightly hesitant as to why a dropkick by Azteca to Fuego's balls is now legal but I suppose Tigre has learnt his lesson from last week that he's too old to get into arguments with wrestlers. One of the commentators has decided to become Mexico's own Taz in the process of this taping.

Unico, El Baron, Bala de Plata vs Destructor, Golpe de D., Mascara Infernal (27/10/2013 La Lucha Se Le Hace) - I'm not sure why I watch El Baron's matches, considering he pops up in the worst promotions, with the worst wrestlers and isn't half good himself. Just ignore this.


LA Park vs Canek, Justin Credible, Dr. Wagner Jr. (14/09/2013) - ask and ye shall receive. I hoped for Canek to make a return in the previous Wagner/Park brawl as a scapegoat but I didn't particularly mean that I wanted another outing with this trio. Let alone with Justin Credible randomly thrown in the mix. Canek cannot even do a kneeling Argentinian backbreaker, ffs, so why does he continue to plague wrestling? Nothing good in this, skipped.

DTU Episode #6 - the Alto Impacto match had some good spots in it but I wasn't much into watching it. The main is typical hardcore fare with cheap barbedwire and lighttubes. Gutterbrawls are usually fun, so if you like them I suppose DTU is your fed to get in to.


----------



## Punkhead

Rah, you can go ahead and watch the first part of Heroes Inmortales that AAA uploaded. It's only the full tournament. And the second part will be all the other matches. It won't be like watching half of the show.


----------



## USAUSA1

Tonga and Rush got great chemistry.


----------



## Mon Joxley

CaballeroGuerrero said:


> Wait....Swedes listen to other kinds of music than just black metal and American pop music??


Black metal is Norwegian dude. Swedes listen to death metal.


Anybody know the story (if any) behind this?


----------



## Rah

Psicosis being Psicosis. It happened in the match I linked above. Suicide was the "mystery partner" and the heels were being heels. It was just a way of putting crowd support on Suicide.


----------



## Mon Joxley

Ahh I see, I thought it may have been part of a feud or something. Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## Punkhead

Apparently, a fan attacked Rush at the Monday's CMLL show. I hope it'll make it to TV.


----------



## Rah

Makes a change from the luchadors randomly punching fans, then.


----------



## Rah

I watched the Copa Antonio Pena matches over the weekend and I enjoyed some of the tournament. The terrible guys in it are terrible and it's interference heavy but that's what you should expect, right? La Parka Jr really needs to improve his cardio, though. I'll watch part 2 some time down the month (after exams), along with the Traumas tag title match from this week. Everything else looked completely skippable.


Soberano Jr. & Súper Halcón Jr. vs Cancerbero & Raziel (01/11/2013 CMLL) - this wasn't any good. The moves are clunky and the luchadores are shaky. Not much of a showing even for Soberano to flip around.


Blue Panther, Shocker, Thunder vs Euforia, Mr. Niebla, ***** Casas (01/11/2013 CMLL) - why this opened with Euforia and Thunder I have no clue but thankfully this swaps out to Panther/Casas rather quickly. Zacharias wearing nothing but a diaper is somewhere between slightly amusing and highly disturbing but that should be the norm for the mascots - especially on Halloween night. My only wish is that Casas threw KeMonito into the crowd or ragdolled him a bit more. Where's Rush when you need him? Match, though, is eh. Thunder would do better heel but we'd all do much better if he just fucked off home.


Mistico, Rush, Titán vs Averno, Mephisto, Volador Jr. (27/10/2013 CMLL) - not terrible but not much good, either.


La Sombra, Rush, Thunder vs Tama Tonga, Terrible, Vangellys (02/11/2013 CMLL) - it seems Rush has found a new person that wants him dead. Though, if he keeps at it with the headbutts, he'll kill himself first. Decent match that pretty much hangs on Rush/Terrible/Tonga throwing care out the window.


Namajague & Shigeo Okumura vs Delta & Guerrero Maya Jr. (03/11/2013 CMLL) - Delta is a fucking pimp with that theme. I wish I could pimp this match, however. I'm probably as big a Namajague mark as they come but this felt too long and it didn't grasp my attention. Perhaps it needs a rewatch but I'm not much inspired to do so. The falls just seem to happen because they needed to, not because they felt organic, too.


Máximo, Rush, Titán vs Tama Tonga, Terrible, Vangellys (03/11/2013 CMLL) - Rush is such a gentleman; he'll wait for you to take your shirt off before he beats the shit out of you. This was a really, really fun match and everyone came on point here. Terrible was unbelievably good and he worked every opponent so skillfully and uniquely. He played up Rush' brawler aspects, acted like a technical wizard on Titán's arm and slimeballed himself onto Máximo, mocking the exotico's gimmick. Speaking of Máximo, I'm back to liking the guy, again, as his FIP and comeback spot was really well executed here. There was a moment of awkward hanging around to allow for Titán to hit his dive, but the entire back end kicked it up into high gear. Watch this!


----------



## USAUSA1

Tonga and Rush has been extremely entertaining. 

I really enjoyed Heroes Inmortales. Probably my favorite show of the year.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

So until a couple days ago I'd pretty much watched no wrestling from this year bar bits from Wrestlemania, but even then I wasn't really concentrating. All I took away from it was that Brock Lesnar has impeccable ears and The Rock now looks like the Incredible Hulk if the Incredible Hulk ate Jo-Wilfried Tsonga. 

I literally don't remember watching any other wrestling match from this year. 

Then a couple days ago I started trying to catch up on CMLL, and well, is there any promotion in the world close to putting out as much good stuff as CMLL? Are there any wrestlers in the world hitting the highs of Virus, Casas and Rush? I say things like, "If we got this kind of wrestling week-to-week these days I'd still follow current wrestling." Well, CMLL seems to be putting out good to great stuff on a week-to-week basis right now, and I have no excuse to be not watching it. 

And I still haven't watched the most heavily pimped stuff of the year yet (Virus/Panther for ten minutes? Oh fucking yes please).


----------



## seabs

GOD of CUNT said:


> The Rock now looks like the Incredible Hulk if the Incredible Hulk ate Jo-Wilfried Tsonga.


*This deserves a 2nd appearance. *


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Still can't get over the fact that Soberano performed what might have been the best standing dropkick of all time in a match last week and the cameraman fucking missed it.


----------



## USAUSA1

Venum and Luxador is crazy


----------



## Punkhead

USAUSA1 said:


> Venum and Luxador is crazy


Damn it, I can't find the time to watch this show. Maybe I'll watch it today.

On an unrelated note, I recently saw Mucha Lucha cartoon for the first time, but I was really disappointed, because it has very little to do with lucha libre itself.


----------



## Punkhead

Venum and Ludxor are awesome. Also, that Aerostar spot looked sick.


----------



## Rah

Another 'eh' week, really. I usually manage to cram what I need into the first or second day of these videos being uploaded but I lacked any motivation to do so for these. I ended up watching the AAA Tag championship match from Heroes Inmortales twice, but the quality off of AAA's official YT account makes it a much easier sit-through than that off of Cub's playlist. 



Rush Vs Tama Tonga (01/11/2013 CMLL) - It's slightly jarring watching Rush hold a bald baby so lovingly as he does in his entrance - even kissing it as he hands it over - before running to maul Tonga. No love for those who dare to grow their hair, I suppose, as Rush has a fucking great head of hair going now that the cocky shit loves the hell out of. There has to be an aspuestas coming, at some point, and the way Rush has been highlighting his hair for the past few months I assume he's going to lose. I don't care, though, just let it damn happen. As for the match, it's a lot of the same-old in that the two stiff each other but it doesn't quite hit home like it should. Not necessarily bad but my expectations were higher than what I got.


Mexican Powers vs Angelico/Jack vs La Secta vs Aerostar/Drago (18/10/2013 AAA) - this was pretty painful to go through, mostly due to the quality and isometric camera angle not offering a clear view of the action. 

Aerostar, Ludxor & Venum vs. Gran Apache, Pentagon Jr. & Carta Brava Jr. (13/11/2013 AAA) - it looks like Aerostar has employed the Power Rangers in his quest for dominance and it's just as well their z-powers are nothing short of miracles considering that nutty as fuck dive Aero took from the rafters:








Even outside of the big dive this was really engaging. The heel control was good (which is different from most Apache work I've seen lately) and the new Cadetes del Espacio guys had a pretty good debut, if I'm honest. Fun spotfest.


Bombero Infernal Vs Tony Rivera (03/11/2013 IWRG) - typical IWRG cabellera fair in that this goes to violent brawling and interference. That said, it's a violent, interference-heavy brawl for the hairs in IWRG - of course it's worth the watch.

Máximo Vs Rey Escorpión (08/11/2013 CMLL) - hell hath no fury like a Máximo scorned - which is why this started with fanciful work of upstaging the other. Uh, yeah. Rey does seem to be enjoying himself, though, in that he just laughs off Máximo's botched work, even after he's been armdragged onto the hard floor. Some of the rest was okay but none of this came across as a match in which Máximo was exacting his revenge after witnessing Escorp beat the tar out of his dad. The botch and subsequent stall was awful, too. Máximo must be the most flip-flop guy, in terms of performance I've watched this year by anyone not named Nakamura.


Oro Jr., Pegasso, Soberano Jr. vs Arkángel de la Muerte, Hooligan, Nitro (05/11/2013 CMLL) - Soberano did some wacky flippy stuff here that immediately makes it worth the relatively short time that this lasts. I'm not jumping with excitement when most of these guys make tape but they all clicked here and it came across as one of the stronger matches out of the list.


Máximo, Rush, Titán vs Tama Tonga, Terrible, Vangellys (28/10/2013 CMLL) - fresh off their rejuvinating match a week earlier, these guys are back to inflict more bruises. If there's anyone who puts the phobia into homophobia it's Tonga, as every teased exchange between himself and Maximo always ends in him squirming and hightailing it out of the ring as quick as he can. The comedy spots hit their mark and the superkicks hit theirs, too, but this was a shadow of its prior outing. It's only 15 minutes long, however, and still well worth the watch for the makeup that the two trios teams bring.


*Héroes Inmortales VII* Parte 2

*Cuervo, Mamba, Mary Apache, Mini Abismo ***** Vs El Elegido, Faby Apache, Octagoncito, Pimpinela Escarlata* - typical bullshit opener from the typically bullshit wrestlers. This goes from order to chaos and back to order with no sense of logic and the overplayed work by Pimpi just needs to end. I'm upset by Faby not only taking the pin but being the victim of a Secta run-in where she loses some hair. Poor Pepe Casas and poor Faby Apache - why are you reduced to working with such shit workers?


*Crazy Boy & Joe Lider vs Angélico & Jack Evans and Espíritu & Scoria and Aerostar & Drago* - So Pentagón Jr. & Último Gladiador were replaced by Secta for the Juve turn? Interesting time to do it, considering Evans/Angelico should have just taken the titles clean but I'll go with it. I have no vested interest in the storylines of any of these guys so when I watch it's always in a vacuum so turns and title changes mean little to me. What does matter is good spotfest wrestling and this wasn't much that. Way too much co-operative nonsense that looks truly awful but it was pretty balls-out, though, so it had some moments that almost makes this worth sitting through. There have been worse AAA spotfests but there's also been better.


*Psycho Clown vs Texano Jr.* - TNA can be happy about one thing, AAA will always outdo them in overbooking clusterfucks. This is so typical AAA main event and you shouldn't expect any less. It's almost a pity that Texano tried as Psycho was only interested in putting himself over here and neglected to make his opponent's work look good. Why anyone would no-sell moves in the interest of working the crowd when you have two hype men at ringside (and on the apron) is beyond me but that's Psycho Clown for you.




GOD of CUNT said:


> Then a couple days ago I started trying to catch up on CMLL, and well, is there any promotion in the world close to putting out as much good stuff as CMLL? Are there any wrestlers in the world hitting the highs of Virus, Casas and Rush? I say things like, "If we got this kind of wrestling week-to-week these days I'd still follow current wrestling." Well, CMLL seems to be putting out good to great stuff on a week-to-week basis right now, and I have no excuse to be not watching it.



Exactly. I'm honestly happy that they've found a specific "speed" for Terrible, Casas and Rush because their interweaving feuds are just better for it thanks to that. Looks like we're also finally getting the Casas/Rush hair match, with a singles match next week leading up to it. I'm most probably alone in thinking this but that prospect has me as excited as Cesaro/Regal.

Not sure if you'd have the chance, or even want, to watch some of the higher end lucha from the year but I'd assume you to love Hechicero/Lucero. It's got matwork and one of the best dives of the year.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I'm actually making an honest to goodness effort to watch as much pimped lucha from this year that I can. I only really started with CMLL, but I'm going to broaden that to anything from Mexico that's been good. I'll fail at that task like I fail at every other wrestling-related "project" I've ever started, but I'm sure the fifteen or so matches I do get through will be fun. I've actually written about a few matches from this year on my blog (shameless plug? prolly) in the last week. Haven't even seen any Casas/Rush exchanges from this year yet but I'm already psyched about the prospect of an apuestas match. Rush was fucking awesome in the January match against Terrible, and Casas' exchanges with Panther in the 2/12 trios were out of this world. I'm really looking forward to seeing them match up. 

How's IWRG been this year? That's really the only promotion I've halfway followed semi-consistently over the last four years, but this year I haven't watched a single thing from them. Are the Traumas still great? Because Trauma II was probably my favourite wrestler in the world at a point in 2010/2011, then Trauma I got amazing and overtook him, and then it was him that was just about my favourite wrestler around 2011 heading into 2012. Honestly, I don't even think I've READ anything about IWRG this year, never mind watched anything.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

So I watched Hechicero/Lucero. Hechicero's tope is the spot of the year, right? Thought the match was tremendous. I don't really plan on catching up with a bunch of wrestling from this year outside of Mexico (I'll watch the Dustin stuff from WWE at some point, but that's about it), but I get the sense I could watch every match that's been pimped from everywhere on earth in 2013 and I wouldn't come away from it all thinking there were more than five matches, if that, better than Hechicero/Lucero.


----------



## Concrete

God Hechicero vs Lucero is gonna be a hard one for me to not have in my Top 5 matches this year. Still neck and neck for me between it and LA Park vs Dr. Wagner Jr., THE GOOD ONE! I mean why aren't they going at it in bloodbaths more often? STOP DA SHTICK!

Watched *La Mascara/Rush vs Tama Tonga/Terrible*. Disappointed is how I'd describe this. The first two falls are simply OK, with nothing I'd consider really worth watching. Hate when this happens. The 3rd fall was pretty good but after the first two it was gonna need a miracle to be a really good match. Too much La Mascara and not enough Rush going to WAR with the rudos. That ending though...RUSH!!!


----------



## Rah

Sorry for the late reply



GOD of CUNT said:


> I'm actually making an honest to goodness effort to watch as much pimped lucha from this year that I can. I only really started with CMLL, but I'm going to broaden that to anything from Mexico that's been good. I'll fail at that task like I fail at every other wrestling-related "project" I've ever started, but I'm sure the fifteen or so matches I do get through will be fun. I've actually written about a few matches from this year on my blog (shameless plug? prolly) in the last week. Haven't even seen any Casas/Rush exchanges from this year yet but I'm already psyched about the prospect of an apuestas match. Rush was fucking awesome in the January match against Terrible, and Casas' exchanges with Panther in the 2/12 trios were out of this world. I'm really looking forward to seeing them match up.
> 
> How's IWRG been this year? That's really the only promotion I've halfway followed semi-consistently over the last four years, but this year I haven't watched a single thing from them. Are the Traumas still great? Because Trauma II was probably my favourite wrestler in the world at a point in 2010/2011, then Trauma I got amazing and overtook him, and then it was him that was just about my favourite wrestler around 2011 heading into 2012. Honestly, I don't even think I've READ anything about IWRG this year, never mind watched anything.


Well, the really touted lucha deserves a look and the list isn't too long that it would put you off. Not sure how high the September Rush/Casas trios was placed in the lists you're going off, but that one match was fabulously crafted and probably came as the peak of trios in 2013 (even in a year where The Shield were giving performances like they had). Did you watch the Terrible/Rush hairs match from 79th Aniversario? That was my first look at Rush as good, and you should give it a whirl if you haven't.

IWRG had a good start to the year but I faded in my viewing of them after a few months. More due to having less time to dedicate to watching wrestling than a dip in quality, though. I can definitely recommend the Ángel/Oficial 911/Trauma II mask match (both outings are good, though) and the Chico Che brawl from 18/02.

Traumas are always good (DUH), but Trauma II is something else if he gets into the match. Like I say, I haven't been following IWRG consistently but there's still a list of somewhat good matches for them. The prospect of Valiente & Virus Vs Los Traumas might be what you'd want to go for, though. It's too bad that both matches had booking irregularities and time constraints, but the second outing ends on a better note (as it feeds into the hatred between the CMLL guys). The first show also has Navarro/Casas which also ends very short but it's still 9 minutes of fucking NAVARRO and CASAS.




GOD of CUNT said:


> So I watched Hechicero/Lucero. Hechicero's tope is the spot of the year, right? Thought the match was tremendous. I don't really plan on catching up with a bunch of wrestling from this year outside of Mexico (I'll watch the Dustin stuff from WWE at some point, but that's about it), but I get the sense I could watch every match that's been pimped from everywhere on earth in 2013 and I wouldn't come away from it all thinking there were more than five matches, if that, better than Hechicero/Lucero.


Glad you enjoyed it, there's just too much to love in it that it becomes a pity Lucero hardly (if ever) makes tape. Even with my WWE "biases", it still holds a place at the top of my list. I'm sure that might change, however, if I owned a credit card to buy the following match off Black Terry Jr:



> Satanico, Black Terry, ***** Navarro vs Blue Panther, Solar, Super Astro.


There's no way that cannot be anything but good.


----------



## Obfuscation

Has LA Park had another terrific brawl this year?

If yes, link me. Immediately.


----------



## Rah

The Primer said:


> Has LA Park had another terrific brawl this year?
> 
> If yes, link me. Immediately.


He had another brawl. It was shit.


----------



## Obfuscation

FUCK

Well, there goes my work for looking up what I need from Lucha in the rest of 2013.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Rah said:


> Well, the really touted lucha deserves a look and the list isn't too long that it would put you off. Not sure how high the September Rush/Casas trios was placed in the lists you're going off, but that one match was fabulously crafted and probably came as the peak of trios in 2013 (even in a year where The Shield were giving performances like they had). Did you watch the Terrible/Rush hairs match from 79th Aniversario? That was my first look at Rush as good, and you should give it a whirl if you haven't.
> 
> IWRG had a good start to the year but I faded in my viewing of them after a few months. More due to having less time to dedicate to watching wrestling than a dip in quality, though. I can definitely recommend the Ángel/Oficial 911/Trauma II mask match (both outings are good, though) and the Chico Che brawl from 18/02.
> 
> Traumas are always good (DUH), but Trauma II is something else if he gets into the match. Like I say, I haven't been following IWRG consistently but there's still a list of somewhat good matches for them. The prospect of Valiente & Virus Vs Los Traumas might be what you'd want to go for, though. It's too bad that both matches had booking irregularities and time constraints, but the second outing ends on a better note (as it feeds into the hatred between the CMLL guys). The first show also has Navarro/Casas which also ends very short but it's still 9 minutes of fucking NAVARRO and CASAS.


I haven't seen the Rush/Terrible hair match, no. I'll have to check it out at some point. 

I've more or less just been watching anything that interests me on paper, and all of the Rush/Casas trios interest me, so I'll watch pretty much all of them in time. I've watched a ton of CMLL from this year over the last week and a bit, and I'm up to mid-May right now (Virus/Panther was everything I wanted a Virus/Panther lightning match to be, and I really really really hope it's a precursor to something bigger), so I should get to the Rush/Casas stuff soon.

I'll get on the IWRG stuff soon as well, and both matches from 2/18 were on the to-watch list. I intended to watch the Chilanga Mask show, too. I'll probably watch anything Virus has been involved in this year. Haven't seen the Park/Wagner match from TXT yet. I will eventually, though.

And yeah, I'll give BTJr. $4 for the Satanico return tag.


----------



## Concrete

The Primer said:


> Has LA Park had another terrific brawl this year?
> 
> If yes, link me. Immediately.


Okay this isn't a singles match and it isn't bloody but it is quite the fight Angel Blanco Jr. & Dr. Wagner Jr. vs LA Park & Villano IV


----------



## Rah

Going chronologically is good for one reason - you'll hit a slow-patch of meddling stuff and then, out of nowhere, VIRUS/GUERRERO MAYA. What a worthy second outing for those guys.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Here is my newest lucha highlight video about... ELÉCTRICO!


----------



## Obfuscation

Concrete said:


> Okay this isn't a singles match and it isn't bloody but it is quite the fight Angel Blanco Jr. & Dr. Wagner Jr. vs LA Park & Villano IV


I'll take it.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Any of y'all pick up the DVDVR 80s set? 

I've purposefully tried to avoid watching a bunch of 80s lucha down the years because I knew this would be coming out, and there is some amazing looking shit on it that I've never seen before. I finished the first disc this morning, and shockingly enough, the Chicana/MS-1 apuestas match from '83 is still just about the best match of all time. Chicana feels like someone I'll be calling a top 10 guy ever once I get through the set. Top 10 luchadores ever is something I've been thinking about as I've been watching a ton of lucha lately, and MS-1 is another guy that is pretty undeniable as a superworker (and probably top 10). Sooner or later someone needs to chronicle every single thing Fuerza Guerrera has ever done and stick it on a comp. There's a small handful of guys in wrestling history that I'd rather watch than Fuerza GOATrera (Tenryu, Eddie, Dandy, Casas, Hansen...that's about it).


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

So Mocho Cota is one of the great lost workers of all time, right? I watched a fuckton of matches from the 00s over the last couple years for a best of the 00s poll, and after watching the January '84 Mocho Cota/Americo Rocca title match this morning, I don't think it would've looked out of place in amongst the very best stuff from the last decade. There's really only a handful of matches (from the 00s) I'd argue are on the same level as it, and I'm not even totally convinced any are actually *better* than it. Pretty much a classic and one of the best lucha title matches I've ever seen.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx

Anybody care to recommend any matches from Octagon Jr./Samuray Del Sol from his AAA days?


----------



## Máscara Dorada

MoxleyMoxx said:


> Anybody care to recommend any matches from Octagon Jr./Samuray Del Sol from his AAA days?


He only had a very brief AAA run as Octagon Jr if you can even call it a run. One show.

Here is that one:

La Parka, Octagón, Octagon Jr. vs Parka Negra, Pentagon Jr., Silver King


Here is some Samuray Del Sol:

Devil Rocker, Machine Rocker, Soul Rocker vs Fenix, Freelance, Samurai del Sol

Alebrije, Fenix, Samurai del Sol vs Devil Rocker, Machine Rocker, Soul Rocker


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Here is another highlight video of mine, this time it's a young AAA/indy tecnico luchador called Gotita de Plata (video)!

EDIT: Oh, and i somehow forgot to mention: He is *15 years old*.


----------



## 777

Finally got around to watching Heroes Inmortales, if for no other reason than the Juvi turn. AAA always delivers a fun show as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Chingo Bling

Nothing on TV is topping Sin Limite. Easily the best wrestling show out there right now.

Saw this week's show, Eterno out of nowhere pulls these top rope dives out of his ass. But he did pay for it and fractured a bone in his leg. He'll be out for some time. Probably means Hamburger Kid will sit out for this fued with Anarquia, or throw in another indy ****** from those tryouts they had.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Bumping up the thread with my newest highlight video.


----------



## Punkhead

Guerra de Titanes first part is up on AAA's Youtube page. Opener, cage match and trios title match. Nothing too good, but wasn't bad either.


----------



## Violent By Design

So what was the Lucha MOTY?

Btw, there any old school matches that have gotten pimped a lot in the past year? Always lookin for some new Lucha to check out.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Violent By Design said:


> So what was the Lucha MOTY?


Here are some I came up with quickly as MOTYC

La Sombra vs Volador Jr 2013-08-16 Super Libre
Shinsuke Nakamura (c) vs La Sombra - (CMLL 05/31/13)
Virus vs Guerrero Maya Jr. 2013-10-06
Rey Cometa & Stuka Jr. vs Namajague & Shigeo Okumura 2013-03-23 

I haven't seen much of IWRG that wasn't a sloth like brawl. I might be leaving out a couple AAA matches just because I've watched more CMLL and just caught onto AAA about mid year. I remember a good match between Faby,Drago vs Mary,Haloween, that I really liked.


----------



## Punkhead

I ♥ KEMONITO;27681625 said:


> Here are some I came up with quickly as MOTYC
> 
> La Sombra vs Volador Jr 2013-08-16 Super Libre
> Shinsuke Nakamura (c) vs La Sombra - (CMLL 05/31/13)
> Virus vs Guerrero Maya Jr. 2013-10-06
> Rey Cometa & Stuka Jr. vs Namajague & Shigeo Okumura 2013-03-23
> 
> I haven't seen much of IWRG that wasn't a sloth like brawl. I might be leaving out a couple AAA matches just because I've watched more CMLL and just caught onto AAA about mid year. I remember a good match between *Faby,Drago vs Mary,Haloween*, that I really liked.


That was a great match. It's really underrated.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Virus vs. Guerrero Maya Jr. is my favourite match from this year. Five star match.


----------



## Violent By Design

Doradafan said:


> Virus vs. Guerrero Maya Jr. is my favourite match from this year. Five star match.


They fought again? I remember they had a real good match bout 2 years back.


----------



## Rah

Haven't watched Cubs' uploads in a couple weeks. The Shocker/Casas/Rush trios is really, really fucking good (probably needs pimping in the MotY thread) and I actively enjoyed Rush/Shocker in their mano y mano bout. Outside of Casas/Rush, I don't think I've missed anything worth going out of my way for. Admittedly, I cannot find Maya/Lupus (17/11 CMLL) anywhere and something is telling me that would be a great match. That said, I'm not bothering with AAA this week or from weeks prior.

Fuego, Pegasso y Tritón vs Boby Zavala, Shigeo Okumura, Virus (13/12/2013 CMLL) - there's something about the negativity in predominantly male crowds in Mexico that I wish carried over more; when they boo certain wrestlers for fucking up, those luchadores work even harder to make up for their botches. What does that mean for us, as viewers? Spankingly great SPOTZ~! of course.

Titán Vs Pólvora (14/12/2013 CMLL) - the lightning match follow-up to their apparently match of the year encounter from January. Much like that match, this goes for spots and delivers some rather impressive opening segments. I haven't seen their longer match since the beginning of the year, yet some spots seemed rather familiar here. Going for a compacted form of the prior match is a good enough reason, though, as this gets across all their spots without the filler. Doesn't quite pass the threshold but nothing overtly offensive.

Diamante Azul, Rush, Atlantis Vs Tama Tonga, Terrible, Último Guerrero (14/12/2013 CMLL) - whenever Terrible and Rush square-off it's a whirlwind of violence yet here, their egos centred on out-matching each other on the mat to start this off. Thank fuck the two teams went ham on each other before Atlantis and UG could be tagged in. Hell, we even get to witness Rush pay for being a continual dick to the minis for the past year.

Sagrado, Stigma, Tritón vs Bárbaro Cavernario, Cancerbero, Raziel (15/12/2013 CMLL) - quintessential Lucha Libre styled fanfare. This was chockablock filled with really good spots and sequences that had every reason to go wrong yet didn't. Doradafan and, maybe, TomasThunder619 will really enjoy this outing.

Dr. Cerebro vs Apolo Estrada (15/12/2013 IWRG) - it's rather depressing seeing almost no one in the crowd here for a match that should deliver something worthwhile. Suppose that's a rather striking metaphor for IWRG, too, in that they should be delivering something worthwhile yet they've come across as depressingly below that par. Good to see Cerebro go over in a match that really isn't too bad, at all.

Canis Lupus Vs Golden Magic (08/12/2013 IWRG) - I'm probably higher on Golden Magic than anyone else, but is there anyone who doesn't like Lupus? The dude is so good in bringing a beatdown that it should be criminal if you dislike him. Really good title match that's one of the best IWRG has done this year.

Rush Vs ***** Casas (30/11/2013 CMLL) - this isn't the payoff match but it is still a fine preview-build to that. I enjoyed Shocker/Rush more but this delivered some interesting moments that would be great in a match that could flesh the teases out. I'm slightly dismayed that we won't get the aspuestas to end the year but I assume this will take place similar to Terrible/Rush from January in giving us our first hint at MotY material in the new year.

Blue Panther Vs ***** Casas (13/12/2013 CMLL) - I don't much care if this is a lightning match, with two names like this coming together to do a blow-off to a feud that produced some of the greatest matches in recent memory, everything is worth it. The best sub 10 minute match in 2013 with the only clear contender to that title coming from Navarro/Casas down in Chilanga Mask. Blessed are the old people for they deliver.



Violent By Design said:


> So what was the Lucha MOTY?


Depending on what you like, one of these:


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> That said, I'm not bothering with AAA this week or from weeks prior.


Why? Guerra de Titanes was pretty good.



Rah said:


> Sagrado, Stigma, Tritón vs Bárbaro Cavernario, Cancerbero, Raziel (15/12/2013 CMLL) - quintessential Lucha Libre styled fanfare. This was chockablock filled with really good spots and sequences that had every reason to go wrong yet didn't. Doradafan and, maybe, TomasThunder619 will really enjoy this outing.


I haven't watched CMLL for months, but if you say so, I'll watch this one.


----------



## Punkhead

Yeah, the match wasn't bad, but nothing special. Barbaro Cavernario was great, though.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Rah, did you prefer Casas/Navarro from Chilanga Mask to Panther/Virus as far as best ten minute matches of the year go? Because I thought Panther/Virus was fucking outstanding and pretty much struck me as the first fall of what might've been one of the all-time great level matches (assuming they kept going how they were going in the ten minutes they got).


----------



## Rah

TomasThunder619 said:


> Why? Guerra de Titanes was pretty good.


That's out? Thought it would have to wait until I'm home from holiday, anyway.



GOD of CUNT said:


> Rah, did you prefer Casas/Navarro from Chilanga Mask to Panther/Virus as far as best ten minute matches of the year go? Because I thought Panther/Virus was fucking outstanding and pretty much struck me as the first fall of what might've been one of the all-time great level matches (assuming they kept going how they were going in the ten minutes they got).


It may actually be, though I certainly remember Navarro/Casas a lot better. I remember not much liking the "easiness" at the beginning of Panther/Virus but it certainly stuck out as a match-up that needs to happen properly and not within Lightning constrictions. I was still giving things star ratings at the time and both were on the border of the four star mark - so, if anything, they're not much different in terms of how I enjoyed them.


----------



## Chismo

Checked that Hechicero/Lucero match, and while I haven't seen too much of Lucha this year, I can firmly tell it's definitely not the MOTY. It's a very good match between two obviously skilled and experienced guys, but it felt like there was a chapter missing. Or something like that. The matwork from the first two Falls was scientific, but sometimes too questionable in execution and transitioning. Nothing major, though, it was cool stuff. That missed dive by Hechicero was insane and stupid. And so cool.

***3/4


----------



## Obfuscation

Rah said:


> Depending on what you like, one of these:


^THAT.

Ok, yeah, my amount of Lucha this year isn't much _(about three months at the start of the year, pardon bouts here & there)_ but I'm basically set w/the Park vs Wagner Jr. war being the definitive match on the year. I'm a weird one w/lucha. I either want the insane high flying carnival of a match or a bloody fight - w/or w/o screwy finish.. - to tickle my fancy. On that poll, the fight won out.

Do need to see the pimped out Virus vs Maya Jr match. Unsure about the six man w/Rush, Shocker, & Maximo spread throughout. Dislike all three. Shocker being the worst of the bunch. It does have ***** Casas involved. If he were to make me care all on his own, that demands high praise right there.


----------



## Concrete

You dislike Rush... YOU DISLIKE RUSH?!?!?!

I hate you. I hate you so much :'(


----------



## Obfuscation

He's a gaping pile of nothing.


----------



## 777

Hayley's Xmas Ecstasy said:


> He's a gaping pile of nothing.


You're hurting me. I generally hate the 'Adonis' archetype, but Rush won me over. Not only the attitude and heat, but the work has been very solid.


----------



## Obfuscation

I've tried. From CMLL to the stuff w/New Japan. There's nothing for me.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

This is Cody we're talking about here. C'mon. Why even bother?

Rush is like top 5 in the world right now.


----------



## Chismo

Yeah, Rush is great. I hate myself for not watching him on a regular basis, he'd probably end up being my Top 10 guy.


----------



## Obfuscation

I'm not too much of a scumbag b/c I at least enjoy Lucha. Don't put me on par w/the others.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

The most solid lucha worker for me this year is Guerrero Maya Jr. Whenever he is an a match, you know that will be the MOTN. ***** Casas close second.

I checked the match Rah, it was good but nothing that blew me away. Just like TT619 said, Barbaro Cavernario was impressive & the tecnicos did well except for Triton at some parts. But i could tell you at least 10 better CMLL midcard matches from this year.



Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Concrete

So we are all in agreement that his opinion on Rush SUCKS MAJOR DONKEY BALLS!


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Concrete said:


> So we are all in agreement that his opinion on Rush SUCKS MAJOR DONKEY BALLS!


Si.

Best guy in Mexico this year for me is Virus. He's certainly the most versatile. Works the mat like a king, will screwball you ninety rows deep with a tope, can work everything from "low key" midcard trios to pure mat-based lightning matches to epic title matches, brawls like a motherfucker, bumps like a trooper, escalates from playing nice to kicking the living dogshit out of you seamlessly (one of Rush's best attributes as well, btw), etc. 

He's one of those guys that, every time I watch him, I feel like I need to see every single thing he's ever done in his entire career.


----------



## Concrete

Best guy for me has been Casas but Virus would probably be anywhere from 2-4 among lucha dudes with Panther and Rush in the mix.


----------



## Obfuscation

Concrete said:


> So we are all in agreement that Rush SUCKS MAJOR DONKEY BALLS!


I actually don't feel that way, but it was too much fun to pass up. I'll stop b/c I like my scalp & don't need to be on Andy's hit list again.

Virus vs Maya Jr. will be watched today. Maybe some others. I really do need to get on the Namajague bandwagon. Or watch his work to see if I dig him at least half as much as some cats who keep up w/the product.


----------



## KeepinItReal

Hey, Xtreme Wrestling Torrents has the entire first season of Fighting Spirit Wrestling, which is CMLL and NJPW with English commentary on the Fight Network. If anyone could get that onto DailyMotion (ep. 29 is up) that would be great. Oh and its free leech apparently. http://xtremewrestlingtorrents.net/d....php?id=112367


----------



## Punkhead

I know how people here love to hate AAA, but Blue Demon Jr. vs Electroshock at Guerra de Titanes was great.


----------



## Obfuscation

AAA can be really bad, but their characters do entice me more than some of the crop in CMLL these days. Wrestling can always use the Psycho Circus. Something about evil looking clowns + wrestling that I will always support.


----------



## Punkhead

The ending of Guerra de Titanes was a complete mess though. It's AAA's thing with overbooking match/show endings with countless interferences and run-ins.


----------



## Obfuscation

It wouldn't be AAA w/o it.


----------



## Punkhead

And is Perro Aguayo still heel or heel again? Did he ever complete his tecnico turn?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Perro never turned. He has been saying in promos that he is remaining professional, and will fullfill any contractual obligations he makes as a contracted professional. In their world Perros del mal is seperate from AAA, but its very apparent they are employed on a regular basis, like full time employees.

This new/old angle has to be leading to the US AAA show. But Konnan has mentioned the TV people want guys with the "look" not average looking luchadores. So who is going to be on it?, is a whole other interesting story backstage.

I really dug the womens cage match. It was organised and timed better than mens cage matches. Good for Mamba, it was a better finish than originally planned (with the other exotico losing).


Question. Whats up with Marco Corleone? Is he still injured? He would be the right guy to use in the US show, because he has ties to the TV station/channel that is supporting the carrying Network of the show.


----------



## Punkhead

Tercera Caida posted Top 100 moments of 2013 :mark:


----------



## Máscara Dorada

TomasThunder619 said:


> Tercera Caida posted Top 100 moments of 2013 :mark:


Wow i had totally missed that number 1 spot. Which match is it from?


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Punkhead

Doradafan said:


> Wow i had totally missed that number 1 spot. Which match is it from?
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I don't remember it either.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

TomasThunder619 said:


> I don't remember it either.


Well they said it's from a Fusión show i think so at least that narrows it down.


----------



## sXeMope

For what it's worth, WWE updated their site and the render for Sin Cara is now the Hunico incarnation. Seems like a pretty good indicator to me that Mistico is sitting out the rest of his contract.


----------



## Obfuscation

Yeah, he's going to be gone soon. Less than a month iirc. Now the question is, what does CMLL do w/the other Mistico that's currently in their company once the original returns? Simply contain him as "Mistico II", form a union, have a feud _(although would that even be heated?)_ etc.


----------



## Punkhead

HayleySabin said:


> Yeah, he's going to be gone soon. Less than a month iirc. Now the question is, what does CMLL do w/the other Mistico that's currently in their company once the original returns? Simply contain him as "Mistico II", form a union, have a feud _(although would that even be heated?)_ etc.


And what if the original Mistico goes to AAA? I would like to see that.


----------



## Obfuscation

Would there be any reason he wouldn't go back to his home turf?


----------



## 777

HayleySabin said:


> Would there be any reason he wouldn't go back to his home turf?


Hard feelings? Better money? His brother works there?

I honestly have no idea, but I wouldn't rule it out.


----------



## Rah

Mistico goes to AAA (where his brothers are) and realises he isn't worth what he thinks he is. Comes crawling back to CMLL, and they do a Mistico y Mistico feud (as they did between Sin Cara Azul/Negra) with the winner continuing as Mistico. I'd assume that would be Sin Cara, considering the crowd still loathes Mistico II (Dragon Lee). From there I suppose it's up to how well in favour he is with Panico.

I'm also sure he can no longer use the Mistico name in Mexico. Though he may just end up calling himself Mystico or something equally stupid while he's in AAA.


----------



## Concrete

Apparently Rey Hechicero debuted in CMLL this part week as simply Hechicero. No idea if it is full time as of yet but boy am I excited about potential matches.


----------



## Obfuscation

His ego is so unchecked I figured he'd attempt CMLL first w/him wanting to come in like gangbusters as if nothing changed. Or hoping it to be that way.


----------



## Punkhead

I'd like to see him teaming with Fenix in AAA. CMLL and feud with Mistico II which will eventually end in a mask win for the original Mistico doesn't sound that thrilling to me.


----------



## Obfuscation

Same on the latter. Although I'm anti-Mistico, as it is.


----------



## Punkhead

AAA has best of Sin Limite 2013 up on their Youtube channel. probably worth a look, but I've seen most of the matches.


----------



## Rah

Volador Jr. vs ***** Casas (10/01/2014 CMLL) - Volador starts this off looking like the fucking worst wrestler around. Casas making his opponent headbutt a turnbuckle and transitioning into a chokehold is obvious from a mile away yet Volador would rather take the opportunity to splat himself on the floor. He then proceeds to turn the motion mid-move on an Irish Whip. Imagine a superclass worker trying to carry a piece of rubbish to a decent match, yet that piece of trash is taking every opportunity to not follow along because they think they're too good and would rather get themselves over. That's Volador here. If it had stuck to Volador using his (rather decent) offence as hope spots or in meaningful ways this should have been good. Rather, it's just another match for Vola to spam his crap into and walk aimlessly between moves in.


Titán vs ***** Casas (03/01/2014 CMLL) - Titán's headstand/headscissor/tope spot needs to end; it's completely exposing. Otherwise, this is a really strong match and much better than the previous. It's a nice flow from start to finish and each high-spot has build towards it. Titán had some phenomenal counters in this, to boot.


***** Casas, Puma, Tiger vs Black Panther, Blue Panther, Cachorro (11/01/2014 CMLL) - now this is an interesting matchup. In *****'s corner are both his nephews - relatively young (26 and 23) yet experienced. However, in Panther's corner are his two sons who barely have a handful of matches under their belt. Cachorro is still very hesitant in his moves but there is certainly promise. Nice to see him take his father's old name, too. Black Panther? Well, it looks like he's being groomed into stardom and he already looks like he will be able to fill that role in times to come. Match is full of Casas being a shocking great heel and weird as hell group-submissions (but weird in a good way). Great end to the segunda caida, too!


Rush, Stuka Jr., Titán vs Rey Bucanero, Terrible, Virus (11/01/2013 CMLL) - Titán almost murders Virus with a semi-botched vertebraker. Rather disappointing match considering you have Stuka/Virus and Rush/Terrible exchanges. Skip.


Eléctrico & Último Dragoncito vs Demus 3:16 & Pierrothito (10/01/2014 CMLL) - absolutely fun CMLL minis match with a clear FIP dynamic thanks to a rather great heel workover. Pierrothito injuring Dragoncito and forcing him out the match adds beautifully (in a macabre way) to the build of Eléctrico having to defy the ever-increasing odds. Boy does that guy go when opportunity arises, too. I doubt this will be a minis MotY but this was better than any of the minis matches I saw pimped in 2013.


----------



## Máscara Dorada




----------



## Obfuscation

Volador seems to be as poor as usual.

Got three matches to check out for 2014 now. Fun!


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Fantasticamania night 1 was awful-average. Would not recomend watching that, over a regular tv taping. 

The only thing I got out of it was the interaction between the 2 company's talents and that wasn't all that great.
Highlights for me were : Rush, Ultimo Guerrero, Okada, 1st match, Desperado continuing his streak of landing on people he is not supposed to.

Maybe check out some Hechicero this weekend. 

The AAA shows on youtube are focusing on their storytelling rather than match quality. So if anybody wants to recap the year they should watch them.


----------



## Punkhead

If anybody's interested, you can vote for 2013 lucha match of the year on Tercera Caida website: http://www.tvcnetworks.mx/programas/tercera-caida.aspx


----------



## Rah

If anyone thought Rock/Cena was a poor choice for match of the year, they haven't seen that list.


AR Fox Vs Flamita


----------



## Punkhead

Well, they have to promote their show (DTU) somehow. AR Fox vs Flamita was good, but definitely not MOTY.


----------



## Snapdragon

Rah said:


> If anyone thought Rock/Cena was a poor choice for match of the year, they haven't seen that list.
> 
> 
> AR Fox Vs Flamita


I expect no less than 5 dives in that match


----------



## Máscara Dorada

No Guerrero Maya Jr./Virus?


----------



## 777

They've got huge balls putting a Cynthia Moreno match on that list. She's awful.


----------



## Obfuscation

^You are correct, sir.

AR Fox doing lucha sounds like the worst combo I HAVE to see. Openly willing to be offended for a chuckle.


----------



## Rah

GRAN LUCHA~!


----------



## Chismo

That looks like the greatest thing ever, and I have to see it, like, yesterday.


----------



## Rah

Angélico, Australian Suicide, Jack Evans vs Daga, Steve Pain, Toscano (18/01/2014 AAA) - probably the worst of the weekly Evans trios and Evans/Toscano is every bit as bad as it sounds thanks to some comical over-selling and terrible low-impact kicks. The problem with a lot of these match-ups is that they make use of the same formula and, if there isn't much need to do otherwise, they will never deviate from what might have worked the first couple times they pulled it off. 


LA Park Vs Canek, Dr. Wagner Jr., Villano IV, Super Crazy (20/01/2014 IWL) - the last time I saw Super Crazy he was a botch-ridden mess so it's nice to see he hasn't changed since. He may suck, but at least he's consistent. Park, however, is as amazing as always. Not only does he do his trademark leaving spot but comes back with a hollowed out oil barrel and ensures it hits the referee square in the head when he tosses it into the ring. He then decks the ref, again, when he picks the barrel up. I'd swear that Park has something against this ref. Also, why is Wagner breaking up pins in an elimination match, surely less opponents gives him more opportunity of winning? Though he could just be drunk. Would explain why he randomly kicked a fan and gave him the middle finger. On the one hand, I don't think much in wrestling will beat this for worst match of the year (unless Rayo and friends pull up) yet I also don't think there will be a match more entertaining for all the wrong reasons. Ref harassment, botched spots, illogical spots done without reason and even cliche 90s sitcom music makes an appearance. Suffice to say this delivered more than I ever thought it would in terms of entertainment.


Demus 3:16 Vs Pequeño Pierroth (28/08/2010 CMLL) - now this was a treat. I'm really glad they went the whole hog and incorporated mask-ripping and blood (something you never see in Arena Mexico CMLL) as it helped build the desperation of both men fighting for recognition and the ability to no longer be looked down upon as just a minis wrestler. The more I watch Demus the more I enjoy his work as he's an almost perfect example of how to work a Mexican crowd no matter where on the card he is. The build from matwork to brawling and then immediately from bloody violence to admiration was a beautiful treat to a well wrestled match.



Mascarita Dorada, Astral y Ultimo Dragoncito vs Demus 3:16, Pequeño Pierroth y Pequeño Black Warrior (15/08/2010 CMLL) - even in a ring filled with minis, Mascarita looks tiny. He can still fly better than anyone, though, despite his stature. If this match reminds me of anything, it's that emotion of shock and delight I felt when I first saw the Dragon Gate guys ripping it up in a TNA ring many, many years ago. If there's a better fast-paced match in Mexico of this decade, I haven't seen it.



***** Casas, Puma, Tiger vs Black Panther, Blue Panther, Cachorro (18/01/2014 CMLL) - three days removed from the first encounter we get the rematch and I'm all the happier for it. Casas and Panther get such crazy loud reactions from the crowd that I cannot wait for their match to hit the net. It's a pity Casas only had a daughter as I don't see Puma nor Tiger taking over his role in the next generation of lucha stars. Panther's kids are pretty much safely guaranteed great spots, though.



Blue Panther, Sagrado, Valiente vs Rey Bucanero, Terrible, Tiger (18/01/2014 CMLL) - one word: rough.


----------



## Obfuscation

LA Park still being God by the sound of it. Even if it's a mess, I'm watching. Entertainment is entertainment.


----------



## 777

Words cannot express how much I love LA Park. Number 3 in my all-time top 5.


----------



## Rah

HayleySabin said:


> LA Park still being God by the sound of it. Even if it's a mess, I'm watching. Entertainment is entertainment.


Ignore the Canek rubbish and stay for Park kicking out of a pin by literally kicking the ref in the face. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation

:mark:

lolz Canek. TIMES HAVEN'T CHANGED.


----------



## Punkhead

From thecubsfan:



> Another AAA TV taping announced – for April! They’re already locally promoting a 04/16 show in San Luis Potosi’s Auditorio Miguel Barragan. The biggest star listed on the talent list is not listed by name, but “a huge surprise.” It’s not going to be a surprise by the time we get to April. Things can always change, but I assume they’re referring to Sin Cara or whatever we’ll be calling him, and he’s lined up to be debuting before then. On a recent MLW Radio VIP podcast w/Dr. Lucha (subscribers only, you should buy and listen for yourself), Konnan dropped that AAA would have a big surprise two weeks before Rey de Reyes (late Feb/early March.) Let’s be very clear on this: Konnan by no means hinted it was Sin Cara, but that’s the only person who would be a big surprise. It’s been expected Sin Cara would sign with AAA and it seems like there’s at least a verbal deal between them in place.


I would love to see Mistico in AAA.


----------



## Rah

Black Terry, ***** Navarro y Satanico vs. Blue Panther, Super Astro y Solar (17/11/2013 INDY) - you don't get much bigger than this when it comes to lucha maestro matches and, boy, did it deliver in a big way. There was never a single missed step nor a wasted move in the twenty or so minutes of matwork-exchange, which is phenomenal considering the intricacies that each pair brought out to pop the crowd. Sadly, the crowd doesn't play much ball with them and kinda reminds you of a Mexican PWG show with "ESTA LUCHA~!" chants and cheers for the rudos amongst insults poured toward Navarro. Equally disappointing, Astro wasn't much good in this and really dragged the match down for everybody else. His aerial moves and matwork are subtandard, quite honestly, and being placed inbetween the work of Terry/Panther and Satanico/Solar is no small feat for anyone not on their level. There's a running joke that Rayo De Jalisco (my own go-to wrestlecrap) is inescapable and that definitely lived up here with Astro doing Rayo's backward leaping headbutt not once but twice. I guess you cannot know what heaven is without experiencing hell. Quite honestly, though, if Astro had been replaced with someone more game this would have been an easy lucha MotYC but sadly it wasn't.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Guerrero Maya Jr./Delta/Atlantis vs. ***** Casas/Puma/Tiger had a great match earlier tonight on Terra. I recommend you watch it as soon as Cubs uploads it!


----------



## Lazyking

I have a problem getting into Lucha Libre.. I don't really understand it... I've seen it numeourus times but it's not hooked me like Japanese wrestling. Is there a match or show you would show someone to get them hooked? Like if one match can do that.


----------



## Punkhead

Lazyking said:


> I have a problem getting into Lucha Libre.. I don't really understand it... I've seen it numeourus times but it's not hooked me like Japanese wrestling. Is there a match or show you would show someone to get them hooked? Like if one match can do that.







Not too long, lot of action. One of the best matches in recent lucha history.


----------



## Punkhead

It's official, guys! Mistico (Sin Cara) signs with WWL. Pretty interesting decision. Never watched WWL, may start watching now.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Lazyking said:


> I have a problem getting into Lucha Libre.. I don't really understand it... I've seen it numeourus times but it's not hooked me like Japanese wrestling. Is there a match or show you would show someone to get them hooked? Like if one match can do that.







The one TomasThunder said, and also this one is very good.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Lazyking said:


> I have a problem getting into Lucha Libre.. I don't really understand it... I've seen it numeourus times but it's not hooked me like Japanese wrestling. Is there a match or show you would show someone to get them hooked? Like if one match can do that.


Here's a trick to watching. There's 3 falls. Think of fall 1 & 2 as near falls. Dont count those. You will start liking it more.

But there are times when the falls are appropriate and make sense.

check out this Blue Panther vs Hijo del Santo its one of the better ones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdKIO0bpPQ8

and a minis match , always check out the minis if you can, if your a fan of quicker pace matches 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glAtGbuitbk


Mistico is taking the independent route? Don't think he'll do CMLL/NJPW then.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Please check out my tribute for career injured luchador Astro de Plata. He was such a great talent, it's so sad how he probably will never wrestle again.


----------



## Punkhead

Doradafan said:


> Please check out my tribute for career injured luchador Astro de Plata. He was such a great talent, it's so sad how he probably will never wrestle again.


What happened to him?


----------



## Máscara Dorada

TomasThunder619 said:


> What happened to him?


He suffered a spinal injury at a show in February 2013. He did a Casadora Stunner to a guy who basically fell with dead weight over his back. You can read the full story here at luchablog. There hasn't been much news since but the last time I saw him he was still in a wheelchair.  However there has been many indy shows since that has given away their full profit to pay for his surgeries.


----------



## Obfuscation

Lazyking said:


> I have a problem getting into Lucha Libre.. I don't really understand it... I've seen it numeourus times but it's not hooked me like Japanese wrestling. Is there a match or show you would show someone to get them hooked? Like if one match can do that.


One of my favorites. ***** Casas is still legit in 2014.






This has at least one guy you are familiar w/involved - Eddie Guerrero. It's gotten some super high praise over the years. Five star match and all that. I don't think it's THAT good, but it's good. Also, the English commentary may help you out. Idk. Shot in the dark.






And my favorite Lucha match from last year. It's a total insane brawl. Don't let the shady ref finish bother you. Unfortunately, those are all too common in Lucha for some reason. Match features the best guy ever, LA Park. The former La Parka from the WCW days.







Those who plugged you to watch Mascara Dorada & MINIS MATCHES are dead on. Those are always worth your time.


----------



## USAUSA1

Can never go wrong with a Jack Evans match.


----------



## Concrete

USAUSA1 said:


> Can never go wrong with a Jack Evans match.


Flip side, depending on taste you can always go wrong with a Jack Evans match.


----------



## USAUSA1

It's definitely about taste but for a newbie, a Jack Evans and Angelico match is more appealing. Slowly build your Lucha tolerance.


----------



## Concrete

Eh, was a newbie essentially in 2013 and instantly became of fan of Casas, Rush, Panther, and Virus. Not so much a Jack Evans or AAA in general. Probably would be better to know tastes right now I'd say in Puro and other wrestling. That'll help lead to what you might like in da LUCHA!


----------



## Lazyking

I've seen Jack Evans before, don't really care for him but that was mostly from ROH 2005. Thanks for the recs tho. I would say right now as a fan, I open to anything but the most enjoyment I've had watching wrestling has been NJPW. Wanna get outside my comfort zone and really delve into Lucha. I'm a big fan of Mysterio but in WWE, I know he has a differnt style then straight lucha now.


----------



## Obfuscation

Yeah, Jack Evans for a debut into the style isn't one I'd personally recommend. I'm fine w/Jack too, but not everyone is. And w/good reason.


----------



## Rah

Lazyking said:


> I've seen Jack Evans before, don't really care for him but that was mostly from ROH 2005. Thanks for the recs tho. I would say right now as a fan, I open to anything but the most enjoyment I've had watching wrestling has been NJPW. Wanna get outside my comfort zone and really delve into Lucha. I'm a big fan of Mysterio but in WWE, I know he has a differnt style then straight lucha now.


Pretty sure I'm the biggest opponent of Jack Evans around here but he was in a super fun trios match toward the end of last year that's worth checking out:





Here's what I wrote about it when it aired:


> GREAT showcase of talent here with Drago just ruling the world when he was in control. Absolutely balls crazy from start to finish, with the crowd blowing their lungs out. I'd hate to have come in after this match, because there is no way a crowd would not be tired after being built like this. Next level noise. Angelico absolutely destroyed Eterno with that buckle bomb, almost as if he knew he had to save the Pain/Evans rubbish. Phenomenal match-up that did not stop in delivering spots at any moment in its near 20 minute length. Out-fucking-standing.



Otherwise, here's a few different styled match-ups (so one should take your fancy):






Heavy matwork - the Lucha staple






High-flying minis action - a second Lucha staple. Mascarita Dorada is El Torito in WWE.










Two really good forms of the typical trios match-up you'll find in CMLL










Two of the greatest to ever wrestle going at it. Even in their fifties these guys pulled off a strong match of the decade contender in 2012 (the second, hair match).


----------



## Lazyking

So I'm officially a Lucha fan. I repped all of you who posted matches for me. some random thoughts.

I think what's held me back in the past is some of the over choregraphed spots esp. in the high flying matches. I enjoy the athleticism for sure and I can look past most things but when a guy dives from the stage and his opponent is waiting for him for like half a min, I'm like come on! Just seems ridiclous.. I think in a full show setting, it wouldn't bother me that much.

The style I most enjoyed was the matwork style. Virus/Gurrero Maya Jr. was something I'd never seen before. Yes, the first fall can come off meaningless but I felt in this match, each fall built to something. Virus doing the tornado arm drag spot was a move I was just blown away by.

Also loved the shit out of La Park vs. Dr. Wagner Jr. La Park is one sick fucker. Licking the dude's blood.

I still don't like Jack Evans but the match posted he was in was fun stuff. Big fan of Drago and must say, I don't like Evans UNLESS he's getting his ass kicked. That's fun to watch.

***** Casas and El Hijo Del Santos are two of my other favorites; I can see why their so beloved, doing all the little things right. Casas smile is gold!

I was watching El hijo del santos vs. Blue Panther from 2000 and getting so mad at the shady ref!. This guy was pulling El Hijo Del santos off Blue Panther and the crowd was going ape shit. I was screaming at my pc haha.

Blue panther looks like a crazy old man that you don't want to mess with.


oh one more thing, Not sure if the minis are for me, will have to watch more. Mistico's match pissed me off because of Mistico's weird selling. The guy Took a bump to the outside, was dead then moves his arm to angle to be more dead. Took me right out of the match. Ultimo Guerrero was awesome however.


----------



## Obfuscation

Lazyking said:


> So I'm officially a Lucha fan. I repped all of you who posted matches for me. some random thoughts.
> 
> I think what's held me back in the past is some of the over choregraphed spots esp. in the high flying matches. I enjoy the athleticism for sure and I can look past most things but when a guy dives from the stage and his opponent is waiting for him for like half a min, I'm like come on! Just seems ridiclous.. I think in a full show setting, it wouldn't bother me that much.
> 
> The style I most enjoyed was the matwork style. Virus/Gurrero Maya Jr. was something I'd never seen before. Yes, the first fall can come off meaningless but I felt in this match, each fall built to something. Virus doing the tornado arm drag spot was a move I was just blown away by.
> 
> *Also loved the shit out of La Park vs. Dr. Wagner Jr. La Park is one sick fucker. Licking the dude's blood.*
> 
> I still don't like Jack Evans but the match posted he was in was fun stuff. Big fan of Drago and must say, I don't like Evans UNLESS he's getting his ass kicked. That's fun to watch.
> 
> ****** Casas and El Hijo Del Santos are two of my other favorites; I can see why their so beloved, doing all the little things right. Casas smile is gold!*
> 
> I was watching El hijo del santos vs. Blue Panther from 2000 and getting so mad at the shady ref!. This guy was pulling El Hijo Del santos off Blue Panther and the crowd was going ape shit. I was screaming at my pc haha.
> 
> Blue panther looks like a crazy old man that you don't want to mess with.
> 
> 
> oh one more thing, Not sure if the minis are for me, will have to watch more. Mistico's match pissed me off because of Mistico's weird selling. The guy Took a bump to the outside, was dead then moves his arm to angle to be more dead. Took me right out of the match. Ultimo Guerrero was awesome however.


:hb

Don't lose faith in the minis just yet. Mascarita Sagrada. That's all you need to know.


----------



## Lazyking

I'm looking at thecubsfan's lucha blog, he has MOTY lists for 2012 and 2013.. I'm looking through those right now. I don't know what I'm really looking for being so new and accepting the style finally.


----------



## Obfuscation

Wouldn't hurt to dabble through each match that seems appealing. If not all of 'em. Lucha offers up a lot of variety w/their matches so going through and finding your niche and/or who you enjoy of the modern vibe is a solid plan. From my perspective at least.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

The Casas/Panther Hair vs Hair match in March 2012 is mandatory viewing imo. It's unlike a traditional Hair vs Hair match which usually revolves around a bloody brawl, but I found their human chess like match to be acceptable deviation from the norm and in-keeping with the body of their feud. Similarly, El Hijo Del Santo & Villano IV vs El Hijo Del Solitario & Angel Blanco Jr from TXT 2/25/12 is a sensational bloody brawl, complete with a typically engrossing Santo performance. Virus/Guerrero Maya also have a 2011 title match which is incredible, my apologies if that was the one you've seen because they had one in 2013 as well. I haven't seen the 2013 one, but have heard good reports.

Panther/Casas also have a lightning match (ten minute time limit) on 1/27/12 which is also a superb teaser for their lengthier hair vs hair bout. I recall the matwork being very good with Panther busting out a mixture of rugged and violent holds, with Casas more than enhancing the match quality with his brawling and expressive selling.

I also thought Fuego/Valiente vs. Arkángel de la Muerte/Virus from CMLL 2/21/12 was an outstanding tag reminiscent of past Lucha glory. However there were a few divided on the match who saw other problems, but those who loved the match gave it extremely high praise.

Aside from that, there is an abundance of 80s and 90s Lucha of outstanding quality. I'll quickly link the absolute essential viewing:

Sangre Chicana vs MS-1, Hair vs Hair (9/23/83)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0WXVFXtDSc (ignore the date on video, it is the '83 match)

The definitive Lucha bloody brawl imo. Chicana's selling is incredible, the build and payoff to Chicana's initial comeback is exemplary and true lucha perfection, and the crowd are frenetic and add to the piercing tension in the final caida.

El Satanico vs Gran Cochisse, (9/14/84)

Perhaps a top three Lucha title match I can recall seeing. Very little of Satanico is widely avaiable sadly, but what we see here arguably demonstrates his superlative ability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpHDi_A6CWk

Sangre Chicana vs Perro Aguayo, Hair vs hair (2/28/86)

Maybe eclipses the famous '83 Chicana/MS-1 match. There's very little between them imo, and once again Chicana's mere presence and charisma within this bloody environment is as enthralling as peak Jerry Lawler.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QupMDu8c8Ts

El Hijo Del Santo vs ***** Casas, (7/18/87)

I'm of the opinion that Dandy/Casas is better than the best Santo/Casas match, probably Santo/Espanto as well. However this is a true gem in their series and demonstrates why their chemistry is revered by Lucha fans.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x102lf_hijo-del-santo-vs-*****-casas-7-18_sport

El Hijo Del Santo vs Espanto Jr, (4/10/88)

I sadly don't have a link to their mesmerising 8/31/86 match, but this is a fine subsitute. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgklzRYoO4E

Satanico vs Sangre Chicana, (5/26/89)

Two of the very best in a superb outing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8uXY7XWbNg

El Satanico/El Dandy/Emilio Charles Jr. vs. Atlantis/Javier Cruz/Angel Azteca, (5/13/90)

Regarded as one of the best trios matches, it's a perfect lead into Dandy/Azteca for the title a few weeks later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoRO33Zmqpw

El Dandy vs Angel Azteca (6/1/90)

Fabulous title match, very highly regarded in close Lucha circles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0fLKAa3QFU

El Hijo Del Santo vs Brazo De Oro, Mask vs Hair, (1/13/91)

Santo in apuestas matches is a thing of beauty and Brazo is more than a fine hand himself. A simple equation that delivers a satisfying result.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e42TRDeHhFg

Blue Panther vs Atlantis, (8/9/91)

The definitive Lucha title match. The matwork is so graceful and engrossing, but the beauty is in the timing and attention to detail in each hold. This isn't an exhibition, with a real sense of struggle for every hold and it truly feels as close to a legit sporting contest between two consumate professionals as you could get in Lucha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHEMrzY8sKQ (part one, follow links to the side for full match)

Los Infernales vs Los Brazos, (11/22/91)

Just sheer greatness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH0yjB1OgTk

Trio Fantasia vs Thundercats, Mask vs Mask (12/8/91)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNwsIirQpew

Timeless chaotic bloody brawl which truly captures the spectacle of an apuestas match. Amazing punches, violent bumps and just sheer insanity throughout the twenty minutes.

El Dandy vs ***** Casas, (7/5/92)

One of the absolute best matches Lucha has produced. Simply extraordinary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8IJh6AaF-Y

Felino vs Ciclon Ramirez, Mask vs Mask (7/9/93)

Classic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqg4I03dXFE (part one, rest of match in links to side of the video)

El Dandy vs Javier Llanes, (3/11/94)

Exemplary grappling contest and a true gem of El Dandy's career, which is saying something. Very few Lucha matches will feature better grappling than you'll see on display in this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEbIWqFsU70

Ciclon Ramirez vs Javier Cruz, Hair vs Hair (6/10/94)

Legendary bout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RjzGJkP-jc

Blue Panther vs Atlantis, (12/5/97)

Not on par with their '91 classic, but that's no slight on another great installment in their series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRM9BH1jNgw


----------



## 777

Yeah, any combo of Santo/Casas/Dandy in the 90s is a safe bet.

Surprised nobody has plugged Atlantis/Villiano mask match yet.

Also, LA Park vs La Parka at Triplemania is pretty epic for recent lucha.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Eeeek, completely slipped my mind re. Atlanis/Villano III.

Think I saw he'd seen Panther/Santo '00 and then assumed he'd seen this as well, naive oversight on my part.

Atlantis vs Villano III, Mask vs Mask (3/1/00)

One of my favourite Mask vs Mask matches, and arguably the best. One of the most emotional and engrossing matches Lucha has produced. The expressive selling and build into the finish is exemplary, both men bleed like pigs and the Lucha slow count works beautifully in creating piercing tension and drama in every nearfall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiRuOmLfJKo


----------



## Obfuscation

90% sure that's the same Villano match that you're always pimping. Unless it was a tag. Then my mistake getting a few mixed up. Don't think it was though.

Gah, should have mentioned El Dandy in my original post. Dude is brilliant. Thanks to WCW for that find. As seemed to be w/others in my childhood.


----------



## Concrete

I feel like this moment happens once a year where someone says, "Well I'm looking to get more into lucha" and WOOLCOCK shows up and drops enormous amounts of stuff at one's door step. It is a beautiful thing :'-)


----------



## Lazyking

Thanks again for the Lucha recs everyone. changed my sig to show my full conversion to Lucha. Bow to Virus!


----------



## Concrete

BEAUTIFUL SIG!


----------



## Obfuscation

SI, next time you come in here, post that Virus minis match link for me please. I don't remember the details from earlier and stuff...:hayley2


----------



## Lazyking

^This the one? someone posted a link you can share. it's a great match.


----------



## Obfuscation

Already helping folks out. (Y)


----------



## Lazyking

I actually watched that match not knowing it was Virus. I didn't know they changed your name when you went up a division. I like how when a guy catches you in a submission that is winning the fall, then it's over right away. Adds some realism actually.


----------



## Violent By Design

I find near falls to be more unpredictable in Lucha because they are a lot less durable than in American/Japanese wrestling. A really powerful looking move or submission can end a wrestling match, unlike in other styles where usually one has to use their finisher more than once (assuming they're up against a strong opponent).


----------



## Obfuscation

It's one of their better transitions in Lucha. Sometimes the constant run through of submissions among the mat work loses me, b/c I think it can look poor, but when the specific hold is applied for intended purposes to end, I'm glad it does the job most times. Keeps everything very credible.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

This youtube channel has been uploading a lot of 90s era lucha recently http://www.youtube.com/user/CXLSX138/videos

You people might want to check it out. 

There's a Dandy/Hijo de Perro match on there, its like a Mexican version of what American wrestling was at the time. Just complete shennanigans after a very good first fall. I won't spoil it for those who want to see it. Its a laugh.


----------



## Rah

Of course this won't make tape but I can imagine just how great the matches will be:



> CHILANGA MASK (SUN) 03/23/2014 Coliseo Coacalco
> 1) Robin (CMLL) vs Íkaro [lightning]
> 2) Astro Rey Jr. & Psico Kid vs Fulgor & Karma
> 3) Latin Dragon vs Arez, Mike Segura, Golden Magic, Tornado (DF), Magnifico, Dinamic Black, Zurdog, Freelance [Copa Tercera Caida]
> third version
> 4) X-Torm & Zarco vs Dr. Cerebro & Eterno
> *5) ***** Navarro & Solar I vs Arkángel de la Muerte & Rey Hechicero
> 6) Black Terry vs Guerrero Maya Jr. [super libre]*
> 7) Pirata Morgan & Rey Bucanero vs Trauma I & Trauma II
> 8) DJ Hyde vs Masada, Kaientai, Aero Boy
> 9) Matt Jackson & Nick Jackson vs Belial & Titán (CMLL) and Impulso & Rey Cometa





I ♥ KEMONITO;29829209 said:


> This youtube channel has been uploading a lot of 90s era lucha recently http://www.youtube.com/user/CXLSX138/videos
> 
> You people might want to check it out.


New Rayo De Jalisco matches :mark:


----------



## Chismo

Violent By Design said:


> I find near falls to be more unpredictable in Lucha because they are a lot less durable than in American/Japanese wrestling. *A really powerful looking move or submission can end a wrestling match*, unlike in other styles where usually one has to use their finisher more than once (assuming they're up against a strong opponent).


That can be the double-edged sword sometimes, especially in lucha and shoot style, because the awesomeness of realism can kill suspense and excitement. I'm all for it when done right.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Lazyking said:


> ^This the one? someone posted a link you can share. it's a great match.


Yep, that is indeed the match and anyone who hasn't seen it such watch it immediately.

At first I thought you'd shared the private link I repped you with, but I see you're a good lad and complied with my request  . Legit didn't know it had been reuploaded, awesome.

The October '97 trios isn't far behind the singles match btw:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x98h0m_bracito-cicloncito-magica-vs-damian_sport?search_algo=1 (part one)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x98hjg_bracito-cicloncito-magica-damiancit_sport (part two)


----------



## Lazyking

Guerrero Maya Jr. vs. Virus - 6/7/11 

wow, I love these two in the ring together. I think this match is better than their 2013 match even though my favorite spot is in the 2013 match (the arm drag spot from the outside) This match structure was just excellent. First fall, my man Virus is out wrestling the younger Guerrero Maya, changes tactic slightly in the middle of the fall to get the pin. Then in the second, Guerrero Maya gets control, hits some high impact moves and gets the fall.. The third fall is just epic. From the Guerrero Maya quick pins to end it early, to Virus struggling to get back control only to be thwarted time and time again to finally, the end sequence..

Simply amazing. ****3/4


----------



## WOOLCOCK

That's an incredible match and I think I'd even take it over the Casas/Panther Hair vs Hair bout in all honesty. Only match that has come close since in terms of eclipsing it might be the Santo/Villano IV TXT tag I mentioned yesterday, but I'm not even sure I'd take that over Virus/Maya.

It should come as no surprise, but I think Virus has been the best singles worker in Mexico for sometime now. I adore Terry and Navarro, but they're primarily trios workers these days and in Navarro's case we don't get many if any extended singles outings from him. I still need to watch the Rush/Casas feud, but as much as I adore Casas and his douchebag ways, I'm not certain he's as good as Virus in laying out these modern title matches whilst still incorporating a classic lucha title match arc. He's also exemplary imo at making his younger opponents look excellent, without having to lower his work in the process (especially on the mat). His willingness to bump without fear on top of his still frightening athleticism just enhances his ability, and I truly hope we can get a Virus/Valiente masterpiece in the near future, though I fear the ship has sailed on that pipedream.

The apron arm-drag spot in that match was incredible btw, and one of my favourite highspots I can recall seeing. Also got an All Japan 90s vibe in the final caida, with Virus gradually being overwhelmed by the younger Maya and really piecing together a deliberate comeback which felt earnt and truly extraordinary by the end.


For modern Lucha, I'd also recommend the Black Terry/Chico Che singles matches from IWRG in January of 2012. Not sure if they're still on youtube, as the uploader made his channel private sometime ago as I recall and will only make certain matches available if you get in touch and pay him a small fee (that's the gist of the situation as I recall it).


----------



## Lazyking

This may be an odd question but is there a Lucha Libre match database? Doesn't seem like pro fight db covers lucha.


----------



## Chismo

Pro Fight is crap, Cagematch.net is way better.


----------



## Punkhead

Lazyking said:


> This may be an odd question but is there a Lucha Libre match database? Doesn't seem like pro fight db covers lucha.


The most complete wrestling database I've ever seen:

http://wrestlingdata.com/


----------



## ExMachina

Wrestling Data is good, but Cagematch still has more information in my opinion and completely outdoes it in navigation. Pro Fight is pretty poor in comparison to both though, on top of a very weak lucha database, it's puro info isn't that great either. Especially when it comes to AJPW.


----------



## Chismo

Are there any deathmatch feds in Mexico?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Chismo said:


> Are there any deathmatch feds in Mexico?



DTU, but they don't use the term deathmatch, I don't think. They got a weekly show on youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/dtutv/videos


Its not my flavor, so i can't recommend anything, but I've seen some recaps and they have some interesting stuff.


----------



## Chismo

I ♥ KEMONITO;29854713 said:


> DTU, but they don't use the term deathmatch, I don't think. They got a weekly show on youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/dtutv/videos
> 
> 
> Its not my flavor, so i can't recommend anything, but I've seen some recaps and they have some interesting stuff.


Ah yeah, the Flamita/Fox (very good match) was from that fed, watched it few days ago. I'm randomly jammin' through some videos, and it looks really interesting. Aero Boy and Violento Jack appear in Japan sometimes.

(Y)


----------



## Obfuscation

Rah said:


> New Rayo De Jalisco matches :mark:


You. _(or anyone else who wants to chime in)_ List me all the good - great Lucha matches from 2014 that you've seen. A list of it in one spot is what I need. Savor the obnoxiousness of the request.


----------



## Lazyking

Is it just me or is Lucha hard to follow unspoiled? cubsfan post in the like week installments but not full shows and on his blog, he spoils everything. Unlike Japan when I can look up a show name or date and not be spoiled at all.


it's not a big problem but something I've noticed.


----------



## Obfuscation

I never run into that problem, personally. I don't go reading cubsfan's blogs though.


----------



## Rah

HayleySabin said:


> You. _(or anyone else who wants to chime in)_ List me all the good - great Lucha matches from 2014 that you've seen. A list of it in one spot is what I need. Savor the obnoxiousness of the request.


Err, well, this:

Virus Vs Titan CMLL 28/01


Some people really liked the ***** Casas Vs Titan match, not that I'm super high on it, though. Nothing else has been good/great and the only saving grace for January, really, has been Casas acting like a total dick toward Atlantis whenever they pair against each other in trios.




Lazyking said:


> Is it just me or is Lucha hard to follow unspoiled? cubsfan post in the like week installments but not full shows and on his blog, he spoils everything. Unlike Japan when I can look up a show name or date and not be spoiled at all.
> 
> 
> it's not a big problem but something I've noticed.



I don't quite mind about being spoiled. Most often I miss the original line-ups Cubs posts and the results are the reminder of what I need to look out for. Not to mention it has quick quips if the match is good, or not, and telling if the crowd threw in money after the match (a sign you need to get a hold of that match ASAP). If you do want to go unspoiled, skim through his posts for the line-ups sections and just pick up the download links posted each Tuesday afternoon.

I'm not one for truly following storylines in Lucha, so results mean little to me. It's the great wrestling that I go for.


----------



## Lazyking

I don't really understand the storylines anyway lol as long as I know who's playing the rudo and techino, that's enough for me. Going unspoiled is more beneficial when I get into the match and I get excited over false finishes.

Also, I have to really watch Virus vs. Titan again but I think I like it less then Virus matches against Guerrero Maya.


----------



## Rah

It's definitely a lesser quality match. The Maya match from last year was damn near the best wrestling match out of any promotion while Virus/Titan I doubt will even be the best Lucha match in a few months. It's phenomenal after the first fall, and it's a generous Virus performance, but it's definitely not out of the ballpark stuff like Maya/Virus was.


----------



## 777

Quick rant:

I often hear the statement/argument that lucha libre doesn't have in-ring psychology...and I call bullshit. Sure, you have your spotfests that make little sense and are generally a series of moves with little meaning, those can be fun. And yes, some of the psychology is 'different', particularly in trios matches where a lot sitting outside and waiting doesn't equate to realism. 

However, when one thinks of the best workers or best matches in lucha, it's all psychology. Your Casas', Dandys and Parks. Your Virus', Satanicos and Aguayos. Spotfests tend to be a sign of youthful inexperience (similar to what we often see on the American independent scene), while the best lucha contest are equal to any pro-wrestling we see coming out of the States or Japan. The best workers understand the importance of subtle nuances and making everything that happens in the ring believable.


----------



## Concrete

Want to note that Hechicero has turned is past two trios match into some good stuff. Cause he's the DUDE!


----------



## Lazyking

I'm no Lucha expert but their stories in the ring are told differently but at the core, they are still telling a story. You just have to look deeper. It's not a grappling exhibition or high flying with no reason. From what I've seen, its alot about momentum. That 2011 match with Virus/Guerrero Maya is all about momentum and Virus struggling to regain it long enough to get the win.


----------



## Chismo

Rah said:


> Err, well, this:
> 
> Virus Vs Titan CMLL 28/01
> 
> 
> Some people really liked the ***** Casas Vs Titan match, not that I'm super high on it, though. Nothing else has been good/great and the only saving grace for January, really, has been Casas acting like a total dick toward Atlantis whenever they pair against each other in trios.


What about these you pimped?

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/28678313-post1364.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/28995305-post1377.html


----------



## Rah

Well, I was wondering whether I should pimp the Panther boys tags but, like the minis, he's both seen me pimp them and I assume them not to be his taste. Still not clear and away great matches, either, so I didn't see the point. Sure, they're really good for two guys who just debuted in those matches but MotY/out of your way recommendations? Not quite sure of that.


----------



## Obfuscation

I actually ended up digging the minis match listed there a ton. Made a mention on my MOTYC list _(despite no write-up)_


----------



## Rah

The El Dandy/Satanico match-up from last month seems to have made tape (thankfully). What better way is there to spend a late morning than going through their encounters?


El Satanico vs El Dandy EMLL (26/10/1990 EMLL; Super Libre) - A problem I have with 80s (and, directly, really early 90s) Lucha is that the workover has some rather forthcoming bumping styles in that the luchadores can be prone to being controlled or thrown around in unreaslitic (if wrestling was realistic, anyway) ways. That said, while the match starts off with Dandy flailing himself headfirst into the turnbuckle more on his own motion than Satanico's, this more than makes up for it when Satanico calmly grips Dandy up by his hair and decks him in the back of his fucking head. It isn't as if Dandy learns from this, though, and he gets another straight right hook directly out of Jerry Lawler's own arsenal for biting down on Satanico's forehead. Satanico's luck (and pre-match confidence) doesn't last long and it's only a short while before the start of a sweet Dandy comeback is cut short by typical Lucha shenanigans. Said typical lucha shenanigans call a quick halt to the segunda caida, as well, but that's okay. It's El Satanico y El Dandy en La Lucha Libre~! and it just _fits_. Besides, the match is the foreplay before the deed; it's designed to make you want to see these guys beat the piss out of each other in a straight match more. And as far as "foreplay" goes, this is the best it'll get.


El Dandy vs El Satanico (14/12/1990 EMLL; Caballeras) - Forget brawling before the bell rings, Satanico levels Dandy with a forehead opening boot before he can even get his two feet into the ring. I sincerely hate hyperbole in the context of putting matches over but this start really was one of the best foundations for a comeback hope-run I've seen. Here's Satanico laughing like a maniac and strutting his stuff during the in-ring introductions all while Dandy's laid out on the floor, a couple feet from the crowd, gushing blood out his frigging head. That's a tall climb to regain control for any wrestler to make and, if you're an El Dandy fan, you're going to get hellishly behind an opportunity he gets (even if that's a not so legal means, as you'll find out). Weirdly, Dandy makes that comeback surprisingly earlier than expected and gains control leading to a pinfall in the primera via being too quick for Satanico who's looking for a more "punch you until you die" approach. Whatever, it's a comeback oozing with charisma and energy. I'll take whatever Dandy's selling.

The segunda seemingly hangs as an antithesis to the teaser match back in October. Where two consecutive falls were awarded on blind calls, previously, the referee, here, seems too hesitant to take Dandy up on his cries that Satanico hit a low blow following a reversal out of the turnbuckle splash. Dandy's slaved through a lot on his way to this point but there's no man alive that could take such a forced nutshot and come back kicking. So, just as you're expecting Dandy to surprise you with a straight falls win, Satanico plucks victory from the jaws of defeat and the bout continues its nature of leading you down a certain path only to blindside you with another angle. Brilliant. Third caida is true to form in it becoming a lengthier capsule in which the two luchadores unleash hell upon the other. With pride on the line, both men would rather lose years of their lives than their own hair. The match's culmination seemed to tie into everything both men had brought to this point (think back to the end of the second fall and their previous encounter) and was peppered with some tremendous acting on Satanico's part. It's an ending that needs praise as much as it needs silence. Words cannot convey the emotion brought forward within the visual spectacle of two of Mexico's greatest aiming to settle their blood feud.



El Dandy vs El Satanico (17/01/2014 ACM) - This is in a similar fashion to the Lawler/Funk match from 2011 in that it's two exceptionally great wrestlers, battered by years of grueling wrestling, still going out and trying to recapture their old masterpieces yet coming up short. Both pairings have evolved their styles as the years had worn on and Dandy/Satanico were more focused on cleaner wrestling than the aforementioned brawls. That isn't to say their matwork-centred encounter wasn't spiced with some glorious violence, though. Sadly, this isn't as good as the Lawler/Funk match was and nor does it live up to the expectations you would hope it had yet it's still a fun 18 or so minutes of two men at the tail-ends of their top-tier great careers.


----------



## Obfuscation

El Dandy has something to see from 2014? 

:mark:


----------



## Máscara Dorada

HayleySabin said:


> You. _(or anyone else who wants to chime in)_ List me all the good - great Lucha matches from 2014 that you've seen. A list of it in one spot is what I need. Savor the obnoxiousness of the request.


Well it's simple. Don't read the blog before you see the matches. Cubs usually upload the matches weekly every monday-wednesday.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Also, despite me being a huge Soberano fan. I must say his matches (and the whole tournament really) from Gran Alternativa was absolute crap. I really hope the final will be better. Soberano hasn't reached his normal standard since around April-May 2013. In september 2012-May 2013 he was awesome though, so I really hope he can come back to that. In the last Gran Alternativa I was so pissed he didn't make the final. He did so awesome there.

Barbaro Cavernario absolutely deserve this push (Soberano does too, but he isn't as ready is Cavernario) and I hope he wins the final. He has done really well so far in his DF-run.

On another note, Generation '14 looks really good so far. Flyer has great potential, Rey Hechicero is already awesome, Star Jr. reminds me of Máscara Dorada/Metalik back in '07 and that's a very good thing. Drágon Lee is a spotmonkey, but seems to be safer in the ring than his brother. Black Panther & Cachorro also looks great so far, although I wish they weren't pushed so hard already.


----------



## Concrete

Well okay then...


----------



## Rah

Extreme Rising with a good card?!

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Punkhead

Sabu + lucha = EPIC


----------



## Máscara Dorada

If anyone is interested I bring you some awesome video clips (SPOILERS) from CMLL Viernes yesterday, with Gran Alternativa final.


----------



## Concrete

Rah said:


> Extreme Rising with a good card?!
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Calm down there! Extreme Rising is helping promote the card with Masked Republic. The official ER show takes place the next night. Cause ER can't have that talented of a card. Now here's gonna be the fun thing I'll be looking out for, does a lucha show with guys acting like attractions produce better quality than an ER show trying their hardest?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

So far the AAA sin limite shows have been very average to below average shows. They don't compare with last year's. It leads me to believe it has something to do with the guys not feeling motivated or convinced by the storylines.

Pentagon Jr has been great so far and very effective rudo.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Místico II vs. Pólvora wasn't a very good match but at least they didn't fuck anything up.


----------



## aivaz

Mistico/Sin Cara looks to be debuting for AAA very very soon as a suprise entrant in the Rey de Reyes tourney + AAA are holding shows in the big Gimnasio Juan de la Barrera a lot more regularly


----------



## Punkhead

aivaz said:


> Mistico/Sin Cara looks to be debuting for AAA very very soon as a suprise entrant in the Rey de Reyes tourney + AAA are holding shows in the big Gimnasio Juan de la Barrera a lot more regularly


Sin Cara/original Mistico signed with WWL as far as I know. Anyway, I hope AAA bring back Fusion. far better than Sin Limite for me.


----------



## USAUSA1

AAA seems to have had a huge week of news with the hotel deal, Gimnasio Juan de la Barrera news,mexico city marathon,Sin Cara news. They really going all out from a business standpoint. No new news about AAA US though. Rey Mysterio contract runs out real soon, I feel like he needs to retire in the WWE or end his career in AAA. He on his last leg,Rey would be perfect for the US project.


----------



## Chismo

So, I heard CMLL got kicked out from Televisa due to low ratings, is that true?


----------



## asdf0501

So yesterday El Hijo del santo Announced that his retirement is official now and permanent. So no more enmascarado de plata


:sad::sad::sad:


----------



## Punkhead

Chismo said:


> So, I heard CMLL got kicked out from Televisa due to low ratings, is that true?


Thecubsfan hasn't said anything about it so far, but I can't find it in their TV listing, so it may be true.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

TomasThunder619 said:


> Thecubsfan hasn't said anything about it so far, but I can't find it in their TV listing, so it may be true.



Its true. They have had very poor ratings for that tv spot. AAA is getting I think around double or triple the CMLL rating, and WWE tv gets massive ratings on both their shows.


Interesting rumors about possible arrival of Maximo to AAA. Also an Averno rumor going around because he is doing a Sin Cara show.


----------



## Punkhead

Spoiler for AAA's surprise:



Spoiler: AAA's surprise





















It's Mistico!


----------



## USAUSA1

They cant do nothing until May from what Ive seen on The Cubsfan. WWE sent them a legal letter. Not sure it will make a difference in Mexico.


----------



## Punkhead

USAUSA1 said:


> They cant do nothing until May from what Ive seen on The Cubsfan. WWE sent them a legal letter. Not sure it will make a difference in Mexico.


Well they did.


----------



## Rah

Maximo is heading to AAA?

Pimpi Vs Maximo may just happen then. Yurgh.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

*Soberano & Volador vs. Bárbaro Cavernario & Mr. Niebla* - ****1/4*

The final of the Gran Alternativa tournament of 2014. Volador Jr. with his novato Soberano Jr. takes on Mr. Niebla and his novato Bárbaro Cavernario in a great battle. Soberano taught us that messing with Tirantes isn't the best idea (AS IF WE DIDN'T KNOW) and Bárbaro Cavernario shows that he is willing to put his life on the line for a good spot. The match was good, nothing spectacular but solid until the finish. Seems like either Soberano got up in the ring too early, or Bárbaro Cavernario got involved too late, or Mr. Niebla/Volador did their spots too slow. No matter what, Tirantes had no idea how to handle it which led to the finish looking pretty bad. I actually thought Cavernario & Soberano (the novatos) where the ones to carry this match. Neither Volador Jr. or Mr. Niebla brought their A-game and some stuff they did actually looked very sloppy. I'm also a little disappointed in the number of highspots. There were the sunset flip to the floor which was awesome but I'd really have wanted Soberano to do either his triple springboard rana or his rana to the floor. Anyway, it was a decent showing for all parts and the right team won. 

*See also the highlight video I made for the match.*


----------



## Obfuscation

Rah said:


> Maximo is heading to AAA?
> 
> Pimpi Vs Maximo may just happen then. Yurgh.


Pardon all things I've said in the past; I'll totally watch it. :hayley1


----------



## Punkhead

Maximo is like the only exotico whom I don't hate. If he comes to AAA this may change.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Just saw La Sombra vs Dragon Rojo 2014-03-02. Incredible match. 4-1/2 to 4-1/4 * kinda match.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

I ♥ KEMONITO;31038665 said:


> Just saw La Sombra vs Dragon Rojo 2014-03-02. Incredible match. 4-1/2 to 4-1/4 * kinda match.


I wouldn't go that far but it certainly helped that the crowd was very into the match. It was a standard CMLL match with the two first falls being incredibly fast and then the third fall going 15 minutes with nearfalls almost all the time. Now, for being such a "basic" match it was very good. The spots were all done great and they really told a good story. I'd probably say it was a ***3/4, possibly a ****


----------



## Obfuscation

I like 99% of all exotico characters out there. _(or it seems that way)_ Maximo has generally been the exception. Mediocre fella. In both talent & character implications.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Mascarita said:


> I wouldn't go that far but it certainly helped that the crowd was very into the match. It was a standard CMLL match with the two first falls being incredibly fast and then the third fall going 15 minutes with nearfalls almost all the time. Now, for being such a "basic" match it was very good. The spots were all done great and they really told a good story. I'd probably say it was a ***3/4, possibly a ****


Yeah, Im a bit of a goof when it comes to star ratings but I really liked it and Dragon Rojo kicking out of a double moonsault would have made that 3rd fall. I think.


----------



## Punkhead

Drago presented his mini - Mini Drago. Anybody know who this is?


----------



## Concrete

HayleySabin said:


> I like 99% of all exotico characters out there. _(or it seems that way)_ Maximo has generally been the exception. Mediocre fella. In both talent & character implications.


I may be the exact opposite. I don't love Maximo but in comparison I just hate the whole concept so when he tones it down, which he can, he can be darn good.


----------



## Obfuscation

Just another one to add to the pile of our disagreements. :side:


----------



## Chismo

Sombra/Rojo (CMLL 2014/3/4) ***1/2


Have CMLL or AAA or IWRG produced any good trio worth of watching this year yet?


----------



## Máscara Dorada

slimhot said:


> Discuss some of the interesting things is good. See more:lmao


Uhm, what? :dance


----------



## USAUSA1

Chismo said:


> Sombra/Rojo (CMLL 2014/3/4) ***1/2
> 
> 
> Have CMLL or AAA or IWRG produced any good trio worth of watching this year yet?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpzUPUAMEbA&feature=youtu.be

Angelico/Evans/Suicide vs. Daga/Pentagon Jr/Chessman


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

USAUSA1 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpzUPUAMEbA&feature=youtu.be
> 
> Angelico/Evans/Suicide vs. Daga/Pentagon Jr/Chessman



Another good one here with Angelico/Zumbi/Suicide vs. Rockers in a lot of ways simillar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iphcvmub4Hk&list=UUMA4MOXJ3L5K9jKEDyFX6LQ&feature=share&index=2


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Fuck this. I could have went to bed 4 hours ago. Damn sometimes I really hate CMLL


----------



## Rah

Why, what result didn't go your way? 



Spoiler: Homenaje a Dos Leyendas



Shocker lost, so I'm happy


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Rah said:


> Why, what result didn't go your way?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Homenaje a Dos Leyendas
> 
> 
> 
> Shocker lost, so I'm happy


I meant the fact that it didn't air live. Results are all fine though, but it sucked waiting until 3:30 AM (my timezone) just to go on to Terra to see it didn't air.


----------



## Chismo

http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/?p=30439

Goddamn it, that write-up makes it look like the greatest match ever. I want to watch it NOW.


----------



## Rah

IWRG never has the best attendance but damn


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Rah said:


> IWRG never has the best attendance but damn



Well maybe people are tired of diving luchadors splling their beer.

In all seriousness though, that's just sad.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Chismo

Holy shit, is that their regular arena? Fuck. That's just sad, I was getting into them lately, and the crowds always seemd good in size. What happened?

Have Black Terry & Co. done anything :mark:worthy this year?


----------



## Rah

Black Terry was supposed to have a singles match against Skayde but, like anything with promise in Lucha this year, it got buttfucked by shenanigans. So no.


----------



## Concrete

Solar and Navarro are going at it on the Philly lucha show.


----------



## Chismo

Rah said:


> Black Terry was supposed to have a singles match against Skayde but, like anything with promise in Lucha this year, it got buttfucked by shenanigans. So no.


What about the Traumas?


----------



## Rah

Chismo said:


> What about the Traumas?


Honestly, I haven't picked up on their matches this year. Chalk my apathy up to being with opponents I'm not high on, I suppose. They had a trios match against Dr Cerebro earlier this month that might be good.



Concrete said:


> Solar and Navarro are going at it on the Philly lucha show.


Rather stacked card, and might be worth the $10 iPPV price. Rematch of their CMLL match, I take it? At least this one makes tape.


----------



## Concrete

Card has two matches that could be good/great. Unless they mail it in cause who cares about Philly.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

I'm really hyped for the En Busca cibernetico. My friends on Twitter (who saw it live on Tuesday) told me it's totally bonkers with like over 30 dives, Star Jr. did some Dive of the Year stuff & Soberano too & Rey Hechicero probably did some crazy stuff too. 

The show airs 9PM Central on Canal 44 (CadenaTres). You can stream it (legally) on canal44.com. Don't miss it!


----------



## Chismo

I have a question about one traditional, old school aspect of lucha - there are often situations, especially in 1st Falls, where they simply trade scientific holds, in a hold-and-release manner, like, Wrestler A catches Wrestler B in a rather sick hold, and then he simply releases him and let's him do the same. I mean, there's no struggle on the mat or chain wrestling, it basically looks like a training session between them boys, like they're practicing new submissions or something. In terms of mentality, it's similar to puroresu where two guys trade strikes to see who's tougher and gain some psychological advantage, but with one major difference - in lucha Wrestler A simply stops doing a hold, which is fascinating because it's obvious he could disgustingly punish his opponent.

Now, I knoe there's probably a traditional code, custom or something else behind all of it, I'm just curious what it's all about, because it looks really interesting, especially in modern IWRG, and I've seen many old videos with the same principle.

Also, I'm pretty sure there are many other people curious to know about this, but are "afraid" to ask, lel. I have no problems with that.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Chismo said:


> Now, I knoe there's probably a traditional code, custom or something else behind all of it, I'm just curious what it's all about, because it looks really interesting, especially in modern IWRG, and I've seen many old videos with the same principle.


The reason I've heard all my life is that you begin a match showing off your mat wrestling skills, your technique and knowledge in holds. Thats one way to build a match. Trying to one up eachother. Exchange holds, then get into arm drags and so forth. But the first fall usually always starts with an exchange on the mat. So its like a shine portion of the match for both guys.


I think you know already, but usually in title matches they will wrestle more technically and usually will be the better matches. Like they save it for those occasions.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Mascarita said:


> I'm really hyped for the En Busca cibernetico. My friends on Twitter (who saw it live on Tuesday) told me it's totally bonkers with like over 30 dives, Star Jr. did some Dive of the Year stuff & Soberano too & Rey Hechicero probably did some crazy stuff too.
> 
> The show airs 9PM Central on Canal 44 (CadenaTres). You can stream it (legally) on canal44.com. Don't miss it!


So this airs tonight!

I woke up now (8AM local), I'm considering taking a nap after lunch just to be able to stay awake for this. 

Also the first En Busca tournament matches are next Friday:

*Cachorro vs. Star Jr.* & *Dragón Lee vs. Soberano Jr.*

Let's pray Dragón Lee dosen't go over Soberano.


----------



## Punkhead

He's Dragon Lee again? When did he stop being Mistico II? When the original came back? I don't follow CMLL right now, so can anybody explain this to me in a few words?


----------



## Máscara Dorada

The Manowarrior said:


> He's Dragon Lee again? When did he stop being Mistico II? When the original came back? I don't follow CMLL right now, so can anybody explain this to me in a few words?


Dragón Lee is another guy. I guess you can call him Dragón Lee II. He is Místico II's little brother. He just debuted a month ago, and he is not very good but CMLL seems determined to push him just like they pushed his brother. Místico II is still Místico II.

Also, this Dragon Lee II is very wierd. He dosen't want to fly, and seems to think he is a "strong style" wrestler. However he is skinny as hell, so it just dosen't work. He also got some horrible kick stuff going on.

*EDIT:* You should consider watching the Canal44 show tonight though, if you have time for it. This En Busca cibernetico is rumored to be MOTY material.


----------



## Punkhead

Mascarita said:


> Dragón Lee is another guy. I guess you can call him Dragón Lee II. He is Místico II's little brother. He just debuted a month ago, and he is not very good but CMLL seems determined to push him just like they pushed his brother. Místico II is still Místico II.
> 
> Also, this Dragon Lee II is very wierd. He dosen't want to fly, and seems to think he is a "strong style" wrestler. However he is skinny as hell, so it just dosen't work. He also got some horrible kick stuff going on.
> 
> *EDIT:* You should consider watching the Canal44 show tonight though, if you have time for it. This En Busca cibernetico is rumored to be MOTY material.


Both Dragon Lee's are brothers of Rush, right? None of them is even half as good as him.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

The Manowarrior said:


> Both Dragon Lee's are brothers of Rush, right? None of them is even half as good as him.


Yep. 

Toro Blanco/Commandante Pierroth is their father who also works in CMLL (he totally sucks).

His sons: Rush (who is awesome) is the oldest brother (1988). Then we have Místico II (1992) and now Dragón Lee (1994).

And more to come maybe, I heard a rumor they are about 7 brothers.  

1/4 good wrestlers is a way too bad success ratio for me to want more of this family..


----------



## Chismo

I ♥ KEMONITO;32036689 said:


> The reason I've heard all my life is that you begin a match showing off your mat wrestling skills, your technique and knowledge in holds. Thats one way to build a match. Trying to one up eachother. Exchange holds, then get into arm drags and so forth. But the first fall usually always starts with an exchange on the mat. So its like a shine portion of the match for both guys.
> 
> 
> I think you know already, but usually in title matches they will wrestle more technically and usually will be the better matches. Like they save it for those occasions.


Well, of course, I know that, but my question was about the "hold-and-release" institute, it's rather interesting because there's no really signs in 1st Fall that a wrestler might stop screwing around and simply say "okay hermano, that's it, you're tapping now", he just... does it.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Chismo said:


> Well, of course, I know that, but my question was about the "hold-and-release" institute, it's rather interesting because there's no really signs in 1st Fall that a wrestler might stop screwing around and simply say "okay hermano, that's it, you're tapping now", he just... does it.


I think it's simply just feeling eachother out (I don't know if that is how you say it english, but anyway). Just like in the beginning there are no hot tags, but both wrestlers just walk back and tag their partner when they feel done. It's also something that sets up the teams as equals. However, just like you said this dosen't occur in feuds. In real feuds it's more guns blazing from the start, cause they are well past that feeling each other out/showing respect/warm up stage. This is just my experience from watching CMLL though, I don't really watch IWRG unless I'm recommended a match or there is a certain wrestler or match that catches my interest on the card. So I don't know really if there is more of that there.


----------



## Punkhead

Chismo said:


> Well, of course, I know that, but my question was about the "hold-and-release" institute, it's rather interesting because there's no really signs in 1st Fall that a wrestler might stop screwing around and simply say "okay hermano, that's it, you're tapping now", he just... does it.


I think it's a little warm up before the main action. Physical and mental warm up.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Chismo

The hold and release thing I think is just their way to give and take parts of a match. As obvious as it may seem, it becomes open to interpretation by the persons watching. You know luchadors still try to kayfabe, even today. Thats probably why there isn't much information out there on the psychology aspect of lucha libre from that era. 

Because as you said, you've seen it in iwrg, could be a case of just copying what they've seen done before them. I am not aware how the knowledge gets passed down. Could also be a reason why there are so many juniors and hijos de around.

Lucha in its earlier era (60's?) has a heavy French Catch wrestling influence from what I know. If you watch some you will see a lot of similarities.


----------



## sXeMope

If anyone's interested I uploaded a DTU match containing The American Wolves. I don't think I've seen this one anywhere else.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

CMLL airs on Canal44/CadenaTres in 1 hour. I absolutely think you all should check it out. The third match is the youngsters En Busca de Un Idolo cibernetico, which is rumored by those who've seen it to be MOTY material & totally bonkers all the way through! It's the third match though, so you can probably tune in about half an hour later if you don't care for the openers.

Stream (legal) link here:

http://canal44.com/?page_id=41606


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Highlights of the CMLL CadenaTres on March 18th if anyone is interested.


----------



## Rah

That double-underhood piledriver by Demus looked disgustingly brutal.


----------



## USAUSA1

I enjoy this year Rey De Reyes,Plaza de Toros Monumental Lorenzo Garza is a great place for tv. Bullrings in general are great for a wrestling show.

My favorite matches was Chessman vs. Villano IV and the cruiserweight four way match.

Perro is one nasty dude but he has great showmanship.


----------



## Punkhead

USAUSA1 said:


> I enjoy this year Rey De Reyes,Plaza de Toros Monumental Lorenzo Garza is a great place for tv. Bullrings in general are great for a wrestling show.
> 
> My favorite matches was Chessman vs. Villano IV and the cruiserweight four way match.
> 
> Perro is one nasty dude but he has great showmanship.


Is there a second part already? I've only seen the first one.


----------



## Rah

Dark match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfghWT3p1c0
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nYEiRuEG0M
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKB_9KHwblU


----------



## Concrete

I'm really, REALLY starting behind on lucha viewing, and 2014 stuff in general, so can't wait until a couple weeks so I can start digging in!

Any maybe good, not great stuff out there this year?


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> Dark match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfghWT3p1c0
> Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nYEiRuEG0M
> Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKB_9KHwblU


Thanks. Will watch part 2 today.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Concrete said:


> I'm really, REALLY starting behind on lucha viewing, and 2014 stuff in general, so can't wait until a couple weeks so I can start digging in!
> 
> Any maybe good, not great stuff out there this year?


CMLL has really stepped up their game these last few months!

I suggest you watch

*La Sombra vs. Dragón Rojo Jr.* 






I wouldn't bother with Mephisto vs. Máscara since it's basically a repeat of their last match.

*Máscara Dorada vs. Volador Jr.* from Fantasticamania is a must see! It's the last match of Day 5, you should be able to find in YouTube somewhere.

Here is a very nice Trios match with *La Máscara, Máximo & Tritón vs. Averno, Bobby Zavala & Mephisto 
*





There is a lot more, that was just a few on top of my head! I will give you all more suggestions tomorrow when thecubsfan put up his weekly uploads, cause this has been one crazy week!


----------



## Punkhead

Villano IV vs Chessman was a great bloody brawl. Nothing too fancy, but a solid match nonetheless.


----------



## USAUSA1

Masked Republic sent out the following today…

PHILADELPHIA'S LARGEST MEXICAN LUCHA LIBRE SHOW EVER SLAMS INTO SOUTH PHILLY ON APRIL 27TH FOR HUGE LIVE EVENT SPECTACULAR & LIVE IPPV BROADCAST!

Packed with Mexican megastars from south of the border, Masked Republic's MaskedMania event will bring many of these TV stars to Philadelphia for the first time. 

San Diego, CA - Lucha Libre, the Mexican form of professional wrestling, is woven into the culture of the country much like baseball and apple pie are here in the United States. In Mexico, in nearly every major city and dozens of smaller cities, you can find multiple lucha libre events held throughout the week, every week, all year round. But in the United States, lucha libre events are often limited to occurring in only the biggest Hispanic markets like Los Angeles, Dallas, and Chicago. Long time producers of lucha libre events and media content, Masked Republic, are looking to change that. And, Philadelphia has been named the host city for their first MaskedMania event.

The company, who's mission statement is "to expand lucha libre beyond the borders of Mexico," has brought together a line up the likes of which no east coast city outside of New York has ever seen. "There are so many fans of lucha libre all over the world," Masked Republic CEO Ruben Zamora said of his company's reason for selecting to branch out from the traditional lucha libre markets in the United States. "And right here in the U.S., there are millions of Hispanics who have both a cultural and entertainment love for lucha libre but never get the opportunity to see a truly authentic lucha libre event. A true authentic event to us means not only an event with matches fought in the lucha libre style, but packed with the same stars who have been featured on television in the U.S. for years on broadcasts emanating from Mexico."

"And, as we have seen over the past decade, the lucha libre phenomenon is not just embraced by the Hispanic community, but by wrestling and pop culture fans of all ethnicities and cultures," Masked Republic president Kevin Kleinrock added. "Whether it is the cross cultural fan support for Rey Mysterio in the WWE or people who would never even consider going to a 'professional wrestling' event selling out Lucha Va Voom shows across the country, the world of lucha libre transcends boundaries. We are excited to be bringing true authentic lucha action and stars to the city of Philadelphia." 


And packed with lucha stars, this event is! In the main event of the night, two of the biggest names in the lucha world, Dr. Wagner Jr. and LA PARK (the original La Parka) will battle "Mano-A-Mano" in a rematch from their heavily praised AAA Lucha Libre battle in Mexico in December of 2012. These two veterans have been featured not only in both of Mexico's top lucha companies AAA Lucha Libre and CMLL, but PARK was a star on English language television in as well as part of Ted Turner's WCW prior to Vince McMahon's WWE purchasing the company.

Three lucha championships will also be contested at Masked Mania. Lucha legend Solar will defend his Campeonato de Maestros against his arch rival ***** Navarro. The Pro Wrestling Revolution Women's World Title (which has been defended on CMLL broadcasts) will be contested between champion and Philadelphia resident Christina Von Eerie and her challenger, Japan's Sumi Sakai. And, no authentic lucha libre event is complete without mini luchadors! Often under 5 feet tall, these smaller sized athletes deliver extremely big action in the ring. 

On April 27th at MaskedMania, the Pro Wrestling Revolution World Minis Championship (also defended in CMLL) will be on the line as champion Mini Mariachi (the original Octagoncito from AAA) defends against former CMLL World Minis Champion Pequeño Pierroth. 

Another element unique to the Mexican version of pro wrestling, is the category of wrestlers known as exóticos. And, the most famous of the exóticos is the former UWA World Light Heavyweight Champion Cassandro. Known as "The Liberace of Lucha Libre," and featured in a recent issue of Details Magazine, Cassandro forever changed the image of exóticos when he proved that despite his flamboyant look and attire, he was a world class athlete. And, across the ring from Cassandro will be another world class athlete in the form of "Spartan" Matt Cross. This world traveler who has wrestled in 19 different countries and appeared on WWE's Tough Enough reality competition on the USA Network. 

"We wanted our MaskedMania card to be a true sampling of all things authentically and uniquely lucha libre." said Zamora. "From a number of traditional 'trios' match to a megastar main event, from minis to exóticos, and from masked heroes to high flying acrobats, because for lucha libre fans in Philadelphia this is going to be a once in a lifetime opportunity to see live authentic lucha libre Mexicana in their own backyard, we wanted the event to deliver EVERYTHING that makes the sport of lucha libre so unique and so incredible."

The event will also feature a number of U.S. based wrestlers who consider themselves luchadors by trade as well. "The lucha libre style and action has been embraced by many American wrestlers and companies over the years," said Kleinrock. "One such group is Chikara Pro Wrestling based out of Pennsylvania. We are excited to have a number of Chikara stars on the MaskedMania card including the world traveled Ophidian The Cobra, Green Ant and The Madjai Amasis. CZW's Latin Dragon will also be on the card teaming with Pro Wrestling Revolution's Ultimo Panda as well as independent standouts Chuck Taylor, Orange Cassidy, and Papadon." 

Even more independent standouts will be on the card as the trio of Luke Hawx, Jeez and Ruckus take on lucha stars Damien 666, his son Bestia 666 and the legendary Sabu, who despite not being a traditional luchador, is one of the most popular American wrestlers among lucha fans in Mexico. 

"We are excited to bring our first MaskedMania event to the city of Philadelphia." Zamora continued. "And, we are very excited to have Telemundo 62 as our official & exclusive broadcast media partner for the event. It was important for us to find the right partner for bringing our family friendly event to the city and Telemundo 62's commitment to the families of Philadelphia told us that they were absolutely the right partners." The media partnership will include on-air contests for family packages of tickets to the event as well as merchandise packages from Masked Republic's clothing and DVD lines and a Telemundo 62 presence at the live event. Additionally, Philly's El Zol Radio 1340 AM and El Sol Latino Newspaper have joined with Masked Republic as media partners for the event. 

MaskedMania will take place on Sunday, April 27th at 5:00 PM at the former ECW Arena, now known as the 2300 Arena, located at 2300 South Swanson St in South Philadelphia. Doors will open at 4:30 PM, but VIP ticket holders will be admitted inside one hour earlier, at 3:30 PM to participate in a meet & greet with the Mexican megastars and have a chance to get autographs and photos from them. Only rows 1-3 are reserved seating, so fans wanting to insure the best seats in the house should purchase tickets in advance.

The event is also being broadcast live worldwide as an internet pay-per-view event with top caliber service Highspots.tv providing streaming services. Fans can watch the event live from anywhere in the world for only $9.95 USD. The live iPPV will feature English commentary from the team of Leonard F. Chikarason and Joe Dombrowski & can be ordered at pre-ordered at MaskedMania.com. 

For more information and tickets, visit the official website for the event at www.MaskedMania.com. A toll free information line for both Spanish and English is available by calling 1-888-656-1266. 

*****
Currently Announced Lineup for MaskedMania on April 27th

MAIN EVENT
MANO-A-MANO
Dr. Wagner Jr. vs. LA PARK

CAMPEONATO DE MAESTROS
Champion: Solar vs. Challenger: ***** Navarro

CAMPEONATO DE MINIS DEL MUNDO 
Champion: Mini Mariachi vs. Challenger: Pequeño Pierroth

CAMPEONATO DE FEMINIL DE PWR
Champion: Christina Von Eerie vs. Challenger: Sumie Sakai

TRIOS MATCH
Damien 666 & Bestia 666 & Sabu vs. 
Luke Hawx & Blk Jeez & Ruckus

EXOTICO VS. MACHO
Cassandro El Exotico vs. "Spartan" MDogg Matt Cross

TRIOS MATCH
Ophidian The Cobra & The Madjai Amasis & Green Ant 
vs.
"3 Live Gringos" Chuck Taylor & Orange Cassidy & Papadon

plus:
Latin Dragon, Ultimo Panda & more!

*Card Subject To Change*

Tickets & iPPV pre-orders at MaskedMania.com 

Tickets can also be purchased in person in Philadelphia at 
Bizarre Bazaar
720 South 5th Street
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19147


----------



## Chismo

Goddamn it, I haven't watched those two trios Kenomito and USAUSA posted yet. I've just downloaded a random Chico Che tag that I just know I'm gonna enjoy.


----------



## Rah

Rey De Reyes was surprisingly better than I imagined it to be. It had its clusterfuck booking and rubbish wrestling but I don't think it was quite as bad as it has been before. The dark match was terrible and the Dome of Death was entertaining in a bad way, but that's a given at this point. The La Sociedad stuff was just ugh.



Spoiler: final



The Rey De Reyes match was pathetic, however. Parka's win sucked all life out of me, and came after one move despite Perro having a decent workover and needing a proper beatdown for this to work. Parka isn't this magical babyface where he can sustain a FIP run and make a surprise win over Perro. I don't see the crowd caring for him, which was evident in them suddenly leaving once he won.


----------



## USAUSA1

The main reason why they left because it was a 6 hour show and it was outside on top of that.


----------



## Rah

Except, if you honestly were happy with the winner and was someone you rooted for you would show some form of reaction in their win. Not simply get up and leave as soon as the pinfall occurs. It's blatant apathy for a wrestler who is both untalented and 



Spoiler: .



an almost consecutive winner (2001, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2014; and a Guerra de Empresas/Pena Cup winner on the off years). They worked Perro as a good heel who had taken the majority of the match as a time-off, and had him dominate Parka due to being fresh. Parka being this FIP should have at least elicited a bigger reaction, surely, and not a rather small pop that hardly lasted. I do agree that the one hour maintenance period to set up the dome was unnecesary and AAA usually show little understanding of pacing a show to keep the crowd going but I also still feel that Parka is over-hyped/pushed rubbish.


----------



## USAUSA1

I also think the fans are tired of him winning too but it was a combination of all those things. They need to keep the gimmick but replace him. He is terrible now.


----------



## Rah

Rush, Marco Corleone & La Mascara vs. ***** Casas, Shocker & Ripper (28/03/2014 CMLL) - For a guy who lost his hair, and 50% of his guaponess, you'd think Shocker would be the one leading the charge on Rush. Nope, of course he isn't. He's shit. Leave it up to Casas to add the excitement. There's a moment where Casas is staggered on the turnbuckle, Corleone pulls out a Cena-esque gesture stating that the old man is too blind to see him, only for Casas to thumb-rake the eyes, turn toward the camera and grin. I fucking love ***** Casas. The weak links, Mascara and Ripper, do try but this has one thing going for it: Rush Vs Shocker & Casas. Well, two, if you're a fan of big, American men doing running dives. For all intents and purposes, Casas/Rush is back on!


Magno Vs Cassandro (23/03/2014 KALAKA) - Remember that luchadore that Pearce fought against in the TNA gutcheck challenge? Well, he's back. This time against a different kind of skilled veteran. Now, while I actively dislike exoticos, Cassandro plays different to the norm in that he's the one exotico who can actually scrap on the mat and doesn't use his gimmick as his only saving grace. It's rather swell that Magno was game for Cassandro, here, as Cassandro was non-stop rocketing every which way like he was back in his mid-20s. It's rather a pity, then, that Magno's controls did come across as rather flat and heatlesss - positioning as slower, workover holds as opposed to Cassandro's sprinting nature. It's obvious he was the heel here, despite what the crowd wanted or how apathetic I was for Magno. Special mention must be noted for the referee who, after taking a slap by Cassandro, lackidasically refused to count Magno's quick roll-up on the distracted Cassandro; making for a missed opportunity at teasing Cassandro being done. Really fun for when Cassandro is at it, but kinda throwaway on every other moment.


Rush Vs Shocker (21/03/2014 CMLL) - This isn't a MotY and this isn't a Rush defining performance. What it is, though, is a really cool aspuestas with Rush doing his damndest to kill Shocker and Shocker trying his damndest to return the favour. I adored how Shocker took to Rush, who was cowering in the corner reflecting on how he lost a fall, with stiff kicks to the throat almost as if to say "I was the one trained by Satanico, not you, kid". The first two falls were really well structured in keeping Rush looking like a chaotic madman and Shocker, the veteran, finding ways of trapping Rush. An instance that almost brought about a straight falls win for Shocker mere minutes into the bout. I can equally appreciate the gesture in how Rush won the second (with a capture pin that he almost lost to), even if Rush's execution of the move wasn't as smooth as Shocker had laid it out as.

I rather enjoy mask matches for the teases in the match. I also rather enjoy how Rush carries his hair as an important part of him, so these matches really do mean something. Inversely, though, I loved how this felt more than just a hair match. This was personal, and the match played as a means of having a proving ground upon which they had almost no rules stopping them from bringing out their animosity for the other. From start to finish this was pure, unadulterated violence where if you even dared to wince, your opponent would take control and it would be Goodnight, Vienna.

It's almost a pity that this appears clipped in places as it, at one stage, jumps from Shocker taking a huge dive from Rush only to then be in control with a submission following the replay. At least it appears we got all of the goodness, though. I've never been a Shocker advocate but he damn well tried hard here to make Rush look like the star he is.


En Busca de un Idolo Qualifying Cibernetico (25/03/2014 CMLL) - This makes absolutely no apologies for what it is. It's a pure spotfest, through and through. Considering, though, that this entire tournament is about leaving a lasting impression, first, and winning second, I'll take it. I'll also take it as some of the dives here are outstanding. As for Hechicero, well, he just comes in and, for that half minute opening, rules the fucking world. Dragon Lee and Cavernario attempting to pull off a Rush/Tonga exchange was laughably bad, but the attempted violence was a nice change of pace from the frenetic speed laid out for the match up to this point. Look at the names and style, if you like them, you'll love this. If you enjoy Soberano, you'll fall in love with him more here.


----------



## Concrete

F'n Hechicero being in CMLL is awesome simply for giving the possibility of some rad matches. Sooner or later he HAS to be getting away from some of these low rung trios into some more sweet stuff.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Concrete said:


> F'n Hechicero being in CMLL is awesome simply for giving the possibility of some rad matches. Sooner or later he HAS to be getting away from some of these low rung trios into some more sweet stuff.


Don't forget to vote for him in En Busca de un Idolo! And Soberano too! The final should be Hechicero vs. Soberano :mark:


----------



## Rah

With regard to Cubs's links, next week looks a good one, in terms of output from Monterrey. Lucero and Villanos should be a fun Terry-esque brawl, while Diluvio/Star are having another go at Los Traumas. This week's Diluvio/Lucero tag match-up wasn't much, but there's enough promise all these guys will rekindle their talents for these matches.


----------



## Rah

Well, those matches never aired in full, which sucks as they were awesome. Black Terry's hair match was ruined by typical IWRG booking filth, and Los Traumas got almost no time and some shit opponents. It's almost no wonder they don't draw an audience, nowadays. Both of Hechicero's outings (w/ Cavernario and w/ Guerrero *****) are superb performances, and both are fun sprints. Hechicero's running in Virus' team for this tourney; they have to do those two guys at some stage. That's an easy MotY waiting to happen.



Blue Demon Jr., Cibernético, La Parka vs el Hijo del Perro Aguayo, Parka Negra II, Zorro (12/04/2014 AAA) - Even if I live forever I doubt I will ever understand AAA's approach to main event booking. I also doubt I'll ever find the bottom of their bad match barrel. Perro's such a gem in the rough, though, and does a great "L.A. Park not giving a shit" tribute in these matches. Whether he's taking the fight to capitalism, and ripping off the baricade adverts (only to wear them as a hat) or having issues with fans bringing their beer in paint tins, he's a completely fun worker to watch and detracts from the mess that the others are having in the ring. He even gets pinned by the referee via old-man sunset flip! Though, that's partly due to Parka showing some form of charisma, at last.


Charles Lucero Vs Alberto Dos Rios (06/04/2014 Noches de Coliseo) - Lucero's fantastic. Swell mat guy but, despite his age, he's hellishly energetic. Dos Rios, additionaly, is a very decent talent that showed form last year, especially with regard to the usual degenerates you find in Monterrey pulling off WWE name gimmicks. Boy, oh, boy did he try so everloving hard to split Lucero open hardway, here, with gnawing, punches and headbutts to the tiny cut that had developed on Lucero's noggin. No dice on that front, though, but the tribute to violence remains. The referee spots, and the manner they worked this, leads me to believe this is just the first stop before the aspuestas (Lucero seemed to be talking up the unfairness of this fight, in the post-match). If so, that's gonna rock.


----------



## Punkhead

Anybody knows who is portraying La Parka Negra now? And who is Mini Drago?


----------



## Speedbird

I came here to ask this. What's with AAA having so few shows? I have seriously been looking everywhere for an answer to this.. Cause they didn't have this once a month schedule in the Rey Jr. days did they? Anyway, with the amount of talent they have on their undercard I think it's a shame we don't get to see more!


----------



## Chismo

Watched Rush/Shocker. Eh, good match, but could've been so much better. That sloppiness by Rush in 2nd Fall... But still good. Rush better set the world on fire with Casas later this year.

***1/2


----------



## USAUSA1

Speedbird said:


> I came here to ask this. What's with AAA having so few shows? I have seriously been looking everywhere for an answer to this.. Cause they didn't have this once a month schedule in the Rey Jr. days did they? Anyway, with the amount of talent they have on their undercard I think it's a shame we don't get to see more!


http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/events/201404aaa.php 30 shows this month


----------



## cablegeddon

The Sims guy from F4W said CMLL had a MOTY candidate, some 16-man match with mostly (or only) new guys...I've been searching around but I can't find anything...if someone can link to the video please!


----------



## USAUSA1

cablegeddon said:


> The Sims guy from F4W said CMLL had a MOTY candidate, some 16-man match with mostly (or only) new guys...I've been searching around but I can't find anything...if someone can link to the video please!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o6Aw5PEG3A


----------



## Rah

Cachorro Vs Cavernario (18/04/2014 CMLL) - man, alive, this was a fun sprint. Cavernario's been talked up quite a bit over on WKO and I've never quite got why. Here, though, I completely understood the love; he's damn awesome. I seriously need more cavemen doing bodysplashes onto another's head in my wrestling. Of course he's a wacky gimmick, kind of a Kenny Hotz playing dress-up character and annoying the Spenny-boys in the audience vibe, yet he's still great enough to throw neanderthalic, rugged aggression behind that gimmick and deliver a FIP-squash flawlessly. I'm not quite sure how I was molded to hate him, considering his dives rock and he goes SPLAT a lot, but I damn well got made to care for Cachorro's plight here. The little guy didn't get to do much, but I still have my money on him as the breakout Panther protege in years to come. Of course his willingness to bump hard for his opponents and intent to sell are always pluses in my book.


----------



## Speedbird

USAUSA1 said:


> http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/events/201404aaa.php 30 shows this month


I see. I guess what I was really trying to say was "televised shows".


----------



## Punkhead

Speedbird said:


> I see. I guess what I was really trying to say was "televised shows".


hey have one show a week. But of course it's not a lot compared to CMLL.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Hechicero vs. Soberano Jr. tonight! So hyped!


----------



## Chismo

Hechicero's idolo matches with Soberano Jr. and Star Jr. were really nice, short 'n' sweet. 

***1/2 & ***1/4


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Just saw that crazy match, Maximo, ***** Casas, Volador Jr vs. Sombra, Rush, Rey Escorpion. It was just a huge messy brawl. Its the one where Sombra plays rudo and does it well. His character is a mimic of what Rush is doing. I liked it.

Cmll becoming interesting again with this alliance, in a promo they've called themselves "Los Bad Boys" but I'll just call them Team Troll. Because everybody they face will become the babyface side, but the only thing are missing is a third man. Possibly could be Mistico. Yes the new one. 

I'm going to try to fit in the idolo matches. Been a fan of Cavernario, so good to hear he is doing well in the show.


----------



## bme

Started watching CMLL/AAA shows in Jan, took a break in march and started again last week.

Watched La Sombra/Volador Jr.(4/5/14) and the World Trios Championship (4/5/14) match which i thought were good. 
Know Sombra from his matches in NJPW and i was surprised to see him as a heel. 

Watched the recent AAA Rey de Reyes and the only match i can say was bad was the 4way ReydeReyes Elimination match.
Who the hell thought Parka eliminating everyone while getting his a** kicked was a great idea.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Chismo said:


> Hechicero's idolo matches with Soberano Jr. and Star Jr. were really nice, short 'n' sweet.
> 
> ***1/2 & ***1/4


Yeah they were sweet. Soberano Jr. vs. Hechicero being the better match, while Star Jr. vs. Hechicero had some really sweet spots. I did however expect a little more from both matches. Star Jr. vs. Hechicero felt a little rushed & Soberano Jr. hasn't really been himself since En Busca started but still managed to put on a decent match here. 

Super Halcón however made a horror base for both Star & Soberano in two *1/2 matches.

Soberano Jr., Star Jr. & Oro Jr. would be such a great midcard team in 2014. Imagine what they could do in matches with Hechicero, Bobby Zavala, Cavernario, Puma, Rebelde & others. El Rebelde has also been very impressive since his debut.


----------



## USAUSA1

Villano IV and Blue Demon match from the last AAA show was actually entertaining to me but I had extremely low expectations.


----------



## Gatooo

Hola soy mexicano/colombiano

where are u guys watching the shows?


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Gatooo said:


> Hola soy mexicano/colombiano
> 
> where are u guys watching the shows?


http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/ - Blogging about lucha, recs, match uploads etc. Really great website, but not if you don't wanna get spoiled.

http://www.dailymotion.com/thecubsfan - Matches from CMLL on Terra (Friday & Sunday shows, En Busca de un Idolo) and some older CMLL & AAA matches as well.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyTRLPauncBCj5DSFED169g - Weekly (on Tuesday) match uploads from basically all the lucha promotions airing on TV. 


Basically all you need.


----------



## USAUSA1

Whatever happened to 100%lucha in Argentina?


----------



## JustJoel

So, I've been catching up on my lucha, and _damn_ - AAA is better. Like, a lot better. The show on their YouTube channel from San Luis was so damn entertaining, one of the best this year. Apache/Sexi Star/Jenifer Blake v. Drago/Fabi/other girl was excellent. The early exchange between Apache/Fabi sees them just _going_. Mat wrestling briskly and tightly, and Apache ends smooth out of the ring - really great psychology that hallmarks both competitors. 

Apache's head slap is about the funniest damn strike I have ever seen. I've watched him for the better part of a decade and it never gets old. If anything, it's only gotten better - it's worked so smoothly and, for me, combined with the intergender formula he's like a Mexican Archie Bunker out there. Love it. And damn cohesive for such a gimmick-oriented character. Great spots from everyone - very clean, structured but fluid generally (for AAA, especially). I could make a strong case for Fabi Apache being one of the top 5-10 woman's wrestlers in the world. 

The spot near the end with Apache going crazy on the slaps for everyone had me :lmao Very good stuff. ***3/4

And as if there's *any* doubt as to whether Jeff Jarrett is a great heel - the main event answers that with a poncho, tortilla tossing, and trash throwing that had me fondly remembering old NWO/WCW Nitros. People literally bought full cups of beer just to throw them at Jarrett and his arm-candy, the ever-wretched Karen Angle. Beer on her, beer on him, she throws beer and it hits a kid! The heat generated could've powered 500 homes in the area that night. Jarrett cleverly uses a styrofoam cooler during his entrance to "shield" his blindside to the fans as he ridicules them:lol Genius. Oh, and 450lb El Niño Hamberguesa Owen Hart's a guy before climbing to the top rope (w/assistance, of course) and splashing the hell out of him.

Clocks in just over an hour, and well worth it. Top 10 show of the year for me - even the bad stuff (like Black Warrior's pitiful leapfrog on Parka) was hilariously bad. Highly entertaining, all around.


----------



## USAUSA1

The Cubs Fan did an awesome piece highlighting the career of Averno in CMLL. Must Read http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/?p=30708#comments


----------



## OAP

I know it's straight out of the blue but I would kill for a La Park vs Jushin Liger match. Times like now that make me wish I was an independent booker  cause Park is an independent and Liger travels often. They did share some time in the ring together for a 6 man tag back for one of the triplemanias, but didnt face off much.


----------



## Chingo Bling

These idolo matches are turning out really good. Much better than I thought they would be.

I have to agree with Tirantes when he says Dragon Lee might be the best of the 3 brothers. That finisher he used is filth.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Chingo Bling said:


> These idolo matches are turning out really good. Much better than I thought they would be.
> 
> I have to agree with Tirantes when he says Dragon Lee might be the best of the 3 brothers. That finisher he used is filth.


Yep, I've officially turned face on Dragon Lee after his match with Cachorro. Every match of his has been pretty good except for the one with Soberano.


----------



## cablegeddon

JustJoel said:


> So, I've been catching up on my lucha, and _damn_ - AAA is better. Like, a lot better. The show on their YouTube channel from San Luis was so damn entertaining, one of the best this year. Apache/Sexi Star/Jenifer Blake v. Drago/Fabi/other girl was excellent. The early exchange between Apache/Fabi sees them just _going_. Mat wrestling briskly and tightly, and Apache ends smooth out of the ring - really great psychology that hallmarks both competitors.
> 
> Apache's head slap is about the funniest damn strike I have ever seen. I've watched him for the better part of a decade and it never gets old. If anything, it's only gotten better - it's worked so smoothly and, for me, combined with the intergender formula he's like a Mexican Archie Bunker out there. Love it. And damn cohesive for such a gimmick-oriented character. Great spots from everyone - very clean, structured but fluid generally (for AAA, especially). I could make a strong case for Fabi Apache being one of the top 5-10 woman's wrestlers in the world.
> 
> The spot near the end with Apache going crazy on the slaps for everyone had me :lmao Very good stuff. ***3/4
> 
> And as if there's *any* doubt as to whether Jeff Jarrett is a great heel - the main event answers that with a poncho, tortilla tossing, and trash throwing that had me fondly remembering old NWO/WCW Nitros. People literally bought full cups of beer just to throw them at Jarrett and his arm-candy, the ever-wretched Karen Angle. Beer on her, beer on him, she throws beer and it hits a kid! The heat generated could've powered 500 homes in the area that night. Jarrett cleverly uses a styrofoam cooler during his entrance to "shield" his blindside to the fans as he ridicules them:lol Genius. Oh, and 450lb El Niño Hamberguesa Owen Hart's a guy before climbing to the top rope (w/assistance, of course) and splashing the hell out of him.
> 
> Clocks in just over an hour, and well worth it. Top 10 show of the year for me - even the bad stuff (like Black Warrior's pitiful leapfrog on Parka) was hilariously bad. Highly entertaining, all around.


I agree that jarrett is great but one thing that aaa dont have is the new mistico, hes awesome


----------



## Punkhead

cablegeddon said:


> I agree that jarrett is great but one thing that aaa dont have is the new mistico, hes awesome


Soon they'll have the original Mistico. Mistico >>>>>>>>> Mistico II.


----------



## Obfuscation

How about those of us who think they both suck? :hmm:

K, I need to see Rush vs Shocker already. No more delaying.


----------



## amhlilhaus

USAUSA1 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o6Aw5PEG3A


that was fun, I wonder if the last guy eliminated really hurt his shoulder though, If he didn't he sure sold like a champion.

tna should do something like that, have their entire roster do a match like that, it'd be epic


----------



## pgi86

USAUSA1 said:


> Whatever happened to 100%lucha in Argentina


They lost their two biggest stars (one decided to retire and the other one was fired due to backstage issues between him and the promotion) and the show was cancelled. I'm not sure if the two things were indeed related but it sure appeared so since it all happened right around the same time in late 2010. Declining ratings may have had something to do with it as well but by all accounts they were still doing pretty good. Not as good as in the beginning when they were doing 10+ ratings but still pretty good. The promotion was supposed to come back under a different name but that never happened. Several of the guys starred in a new unrelated to 100% Lucha wrestling show but that show didn't catch on and was cancelled soon after it started. And now there's no local wrestling on national TV in Argentina, which is a damn shame since it's been a long-time tradition there.

But on a more positive note, at least 100% Lucha went out with a very successful show: an 8,000-8,500 sell-out of Luna Park arena in Buenos Aires where THE top guy won his retirement match. If you're going to close shop you might as well go out on a positive note.


----------



## USAUSA1

Thanks for the info. Hip Hop Man wrestles in IWRG now. 100% had all the tools, Jeff Jarrett India promotion and NXT had a similar look as 100% Lucha. I do remember Shane McMahon visiting the promotion.


----------



## pgi86

Actually, 100% Lucha was kind of the blueprint for Ring Ka King. 100% Lucha was produced by Endemol and once Endemol saw how successful the show was in Argentina they decided to do a wrestling show with a seasonal format in India as well. The first attempt was a show called 100% De Dhana Dhan, which was done in conjunction with the top South African promotion WWP. That show lasted only one season. Ring Ka King was the 2nd attempt by Endemol to get something going in India. In fact, RKK aired on the same channel and in the same slot as 100% De Dhana Dhan. Obviously, RKK didn't last either and was cancelled after only 1 season.


----------



## Concrete

*Cavernerio vs. Cachorro(CMLL 4/18/14):***1/2*
_What another rad match out of this tournament thingy. Carvernerio is being the bomb. Rumor has it that he’s been the bomb I just haven’t been watching. His gimmick is a barbarian and for some odd reason he actually portrays it. It is pure insanity. Now we just need someone who is really good at acting like some sort of prehistoric animal and then we’ll be cooking with fire. Cachorro is looking like a young man where the sky seems to be the limit. Had awesome comebacks, took some mean bumps, and worked well on the mat. They manage to have a match build in a short period of time and that was the coolest. _

I'm about to be on break so I swear I'll watch that match you sent me Rah


----------



## Punkhead

pgi86 said:


> Actually, 100% Lucha was kind of the blueprint for Ring Ka King. 100% Lucha was produced by Endemol and once Endemol saw how successful the show was in Argentina they decided to do a wrestling show with a seasonal format in India as well. The first attempt was a show called 100% De Dhana Dhan, which was done in conjunction with the top South African promotion WWP. That show lasted only one season. Ring Ka King was the 2nd attempt by Endemol to get something going in India. In fact, RKK aired on the same channel and in the same slot as 100% De Dhana Dhan. Obviously, RKK didn't last either and was cancelled after only 1 season.


That was the promotion which faked a wrestler's death only for him to come back the next week with a mask on? Jeez, I wonder why it wasn't very successful.


----------



## USAUSA1

The Manowarrior said:


> That was the promotion which faked a wrestler's death only for him to come back the next week with a mask on? Jeez, I wonder why it wasn't very successful.


Which wrestler?


----------



## Punkhead

USAUSA1 said:


> Which wrestler?


There was a video floating around somewhere. I don't know any of their wrestlers. I don't remember their names.


----------



## USAUSA1

The Manowarrior said:


> There was a video floating around somewhere. I don't know any of their wrestlers. I don't remember their names.


To be fair, how many times the Undertaker died and came back lol.


----------



## Punkhead

The new guy in AAA is...












Spoiler: new guy



Averno!


----------



## Rah

Guy in white is Mistico, though.




Spoiler: other mystery guy



I assume Averno's with Consejo? If so, he can take the new guy spot teaming alongside Texano while Fantasma fucks right off


----------



## USAUSA1

Mistico needs to stop taking them roids. I read the reason they didn't advertise Averno and Sin Cara because it was already a sold show and tickets were giving out free. Nice size crowd though

Volador Jr. vs Rush on May 25th.


----------



## Punkhead

Rah said:


> Guy in white is Mistico, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: other mystery guy
> 
> 
> 
> I assume Averno's with Consejo? If so, he can take the new guy spot teaming alongside Texano while Fantasma fucks right off


Averno is also in the picture. And everybody already know Mistico was in AAA.


----------



## Concrete

I didn't until you just told me. DAMN IT!


----------



## Rah

Holy fuck, Sombra is a fantastic heel. Someone explain why 2013 was used as a means of repeating Volador/Sombra high spots when he had this in him the whole time?!


----------



## Chismo

Damn, Cachorro/Halcon Jr. was an insanely fun 7 min sprint, the best U-10 match of the year, unless I'm missing something obscurely obvious. El Cachorro is going to be someone in ths business. Obviously, Cachorro & Casas vs. Halcon & Virus needs to happen. ***3/4

Rush, Sombra, Mascara vs. Dorada, Valiente, Volador Jr. was a good trio, tons of dickery by the rudos, looking forward to a potentially huge Sombra/Dorada match down the road. ***1/4


----------



## Concrete

If by Halcon you mean Hechicero then yes, I agree


----------



## USAUSA1

Bengala(Ricky Marvin), El Elegido, Fénix vs Hijo del Fantasma, Pentagón Jr., Texano was a fun match, I like when Bengala and Pentagon hook it up. That would be a great future match up.


----------



## amhlilhaus

I've been getting into lucha more, the idol tournament is pretty good. 

who are the top guys in cmll? it seems like every week it's rush, sombra, casas and then a mix of guys.

and what's the difference between aaa and cmll? it seems that cmll has mexico city, Guadalajara and pueblo sewn up? is that true, or does aaa go there as well?


----------



## Chismo

AAA is car crash content, CMLL is more traditional, and better, IMO. But from what I can tell, IWRG truly represents what old school lucha is all about, plus they have Los Traumas. CMLL has its own venue - Arena Mejico, therefore everything stays in the house.


----------



## Concrete

IWRG is poo these though so stick with CMLL until the former gets better  Then stick with CMLL still.


----------



## Chismo

IWRG has the 92 year old Terry, they win. They actually drew 150 recently, success.


----------



## USAUSA1

Go with AAA if you want simplicity. CMLL is all about seeking out specific matches.I used to follow CMLL heavily but there too many shows and the tv is not exactly episodic. CMLL have better wrestlers and matches but that's a given since they got the best roster in wrestling. AAA have better characters and the wrestling has gotten better.


----------



## Concrete

So if you like good wrestling watch CMLL. That's what I'm taking from that.

They have Terry and Traumas and yet I can't get anything awesome out of the promotion this year. FRIGGIN' STUPID!


----------



## Rah

Chismo said:


> They actually drew 150 recently, success.


I doubt they could even draw 150 from an ATM.


----------



## USAUSA1

I hope things pick up for them.


----------



## Concrete

Rah said:


> I doubt they could even draw 150 from an ATM.


Just straight up killin' it.


----------



## Concrete

Someone explain to me why I don't watch more Hooligan/Nitro. So fucking awesome. 

*Dragon Lee/Metatron/Star Jr. vs. Espanto Jr./Hooligan/Niro(CMLL 5/18/14):****
_Not exactly sure how to rate a match that was pretty much solely good because of the heels but hey, I’m gonna try. About two thirds of this match were the rudos beating the piss out of the technicos. Technicos weren’t very good. Except for maybe Dragon Lee. Metatron’s outfit is neat but would have been neater if he weren’t in there with a man possessing a holy outfit in Hooligan. I mean, his look is just unreal. Rudos were all about throwing mean offense, tossing guys onto the ramps, doing shtick, and generally kicking ass. No idea who Espanto Jr. was going into this but I instantly wanna see more of him after watching him kick Metatron’s puny face off. That was friggin’ great. Faces eventually made a comeback but it didn’t feel outright dumb but more that they got lucky. Last fall is more back and forth than anything but Espanto makes a hell of cutoff during a technico run that looked, just like the rest of his offense, rugged. So yeah, if you like good heel work watch this. _​


----------



## USAUSA1

Chismo said:


> Damn, Cachorro/Halcon Jr. was an insanely fun 7 min sprint, the best U-10 match of the year, unless I'm missing something obscurely obvious. El Cachorro is going to be someone in ths business. Obviously, Cachorro & Casas vs. Halcon & Virus needs to happen. ***3/4
> 
> Rush, Sombra, Mascara vs. Dorada, Valiente, Volador Jr. was a good trio, tons of dickery by the rudos, looking forward to a potentially huge Sombra/Dorada match down the road. ***1/4


Just watch both matches, enjoy the rudos in the main event.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Idolo trios match was great. There is an insane spot where Dragon Lee takes a hip toss out of the ring to the floor.
3rd fall could have been better, it looked like Dragon Lee forgot the finish sequence. I'm guessing he got a concussion from that Hechicero powerbomb.


----------



## USAUSA1

Thought this was a pretty cool picture from AAA's last taping, got it from TheCubsfan website.


----------



## JustJoel

AAA is more of an "entertainment" based promotion. Much more comedic, casual appeal, storylines, etc. CMLL is more traditional in their characters and match psychology. For myself, I enjoyed CMLL for years, but am really pleased with AAA atm and haven't been missing the show. It's really fun to sit back and just watch - not studying every Hammerlock, reading every expression on the wrestlers' faces - it's very approachable, with the majority of matches intending to be "fun" rather than "great" if that makes sense. 

Especially now that AAA has been stacking talent over the last few years, it's the more exciting promotion, imo. CMLL is still good, the star power isn't as strong, but looking forward to the the Idolo tourney to bring out the best of the new talent.


----------



## USAUSA1

TheCubsFan posted Averno debut match and Mistico/Sin Cara made his debut. The fans went crazy for Mistico, chanting Mistico.


----------



## Chismo

Shit, I'd like to see CMLL get rid of the 25 min TV rule, I wanna see Rush/Casas in a very long match, not just a predictable 2 min first fall, 4 min second fall and 13 min third fall.



JustJoel said:


> with the majority of matches intending to be "fun" rather than "great" if that makes sense


It doesn't.


----------



## Concrete

I ♥ KEMONITO;34587578 said:


> Idolo trios match was great. There is an insane spot where Dragon Lee takes a hip toss out of the ring to the floor.
> 3rd fall could have been better, it looked like Dragon Lee forgot the finish sequence. I'm guessing he got a concussion from that Hechicero powerbomb.


I need to get to this. Cause HOT DAMN! Followed by WATCH THE HEAD! Goodness.


----------



## amhlilhaus

JustJoel said:


> Especially now that AAA has been stacking talent over the last few years, it's the more exciting promotion, imo. CMLL is still good, the star power isn't as strong, but looking forward to the the Idolo tourney to bring out the best of the new talent.


I thought the idols tournament has showcased some good young cmll talent. cavenario looks like he may be a big deal someday and everyone is raving over cachorro.

what young guys in AAA should I be checking out?


----------



## JustJoel

Chismo said:


> It doesn't.


How do you think a mixed tag between Emma & Santino/Fandango & Summer/Layla (for example) is intended? Surely not to be thought in reverence, or with notebooks out grading every transition. It's supposed to be light-hearted, approachable fun. That's how I see 2/3 of a AAA show. Whereas a few years ago, it didn't seem they could do either, I find this year's product to be much better balanced.



amhlilhaus said:


> I thought the idols tournament has showcased some good young cmll talent. cavenario looks like he may be a big deal someday and everyone is raving over cachorro.
> 
> what young guys in AAA should I be checking out?


Not sure necessarily about "newcomers" but Mistico, Averno, Bengala, Texano, Perro Aguayo, Pentagon, the team of Angelico/Jack Evans/Australian Suicide are great fun, and has probably the best luchadora in Faby, comedy character (sans Maximo) in Apache, and the most hated white guy in Mexico (Jarrett) which has made for some really fun shows.

ETA: Actually, Drago and Fenix have shown potential (Drago probably moreso) and I'm pretty sure both fit the youthful "rising star" moniker.


----------



## USAUSA1

Its great CMLL and AAA can offer Mexico two major promotions with two different products unlike Japan and the States. I remember years ago, people thought the WWE would take over Mexico and they did not.

The future of Lucha Libre is in good hands with guys like Pentagon,Daga,Rush and Sombra. And even the original Mistico who is still young.


----------



## ZEROVampire

I ♥ KEMONITO;34587578 said:


>



Good Spot but this match was horrible *1/4 for me


----------



## USAUSA1

***** Casas vs. Rush next Tuesday.

Supposedly, CMLL will respond to AAA using the Mistico name tonight. I seem to can't find nothing on the internet that shows CMLL "legally" trademark the Mistico name.


----------



## Rah

Still think it's going to end with an aspuesta down the line but another Casas/Rush singles, especially at an anniversary show, is much welcomed.


----------



## Obfuscation

It is ***** Casas, after all. Anything involving him to cut loose is more than welcomed. You'd want him to kick off his shoes and stay for a while.


----------



## Chismo

Rush/Casas? I think I'm getting heart attack.



ZEROVampire said:


> Good Spot but this match was horrible *1/4 for me


booooo


----------



## Concrete

ZEROVampire said:


> Good Spot but this match was horrible *1/4 for me


Can you please elaborate.


----------



## bme

- Very excited to see Rush/Casas.
- Whatever gets Mistico/Sin Cara/? in a AAA ring the fastest i'm supporting.


----------



## ExMachina




----------



## Rah

That rudo team in the main is godly.


----------



## Certified G

Wait, that's the original Mistico right? Can they use that name to advertise him, because surely they can't call him that on their shows?


----------



## Chismo

Dragon Lee vs. Cachorro from 5/30 was only five minutes long, but boy, oh boy... Insane, yet compelling. ***3/4

Cavernario vs. Hechicero was just as good, and done in a totally different style and pace. Cavernario is awesome. ***3/4


----------



## USAUSA1

I love what I am seeing from Dragon Lee.


----------



## Rah

> They’re also running in place on a La Mascara/La Sombra/Rush versus Everyone Else feud. *Mr. Niebla is supposed to be a big part of the Everyone Else but appeared to have gotten himself suspended while already serving another suspension. It’s some next level effort.*


----------



## Punkhead

Averno and Mistico in AAA = awesomeness.


----------



## Rah

Batten down the hatches, there's going to be a war:


----------



## USAUSA1

Myzteziz is the new name for Mistico/Sin Cara and its trademark by AAA. Once again, a company own his name and gimmick. He still going to be using Sin Cara/Mistico on the indy scene. Smart move by AAA, bad move by Myzteziz/Sin Cara/Mistico.


----------



## Chismo

So. Much. Zs.


----------



## Concrete

Zzz. They're saying something.

PS: Terry vs Lucero. THE STUFF!


----------



## Chismo

Fucking Volador is really growing on me latey, sheeeeit, the most recent 7 min match with Rey Escorpion was tits. TITS, I'm telling you. And I already pimped the minimalistic greatness he did with that Rooosh boy (MOTYC topic). His movements are so gracious and old school, he sells like a great seller, and there's just some kind of awesomeness in his pacing.


Watched some IWRG today:

5/18 Mask vs. Mask: Hijo de la Bestia vs. Imposible ***3/4 (BRAWLING!)
5/21 Latigo & Metaleon vs. Guerrero Mixtico & Hip-Hop Man ** (why did I watch this?)
5/28 Cibernetico: Maestros vs. Students ***1/4 (hey, it's that Black Terry fella!)

Tried to watch three other tags from May, but couldn't finish 'em. Where the fuck are Traumas and Navarro? No wonder their business is in the shitter. No Black Terry singles matches. Jammin thrugh Cubsfan's channel, I see Hijo de Pirata Morgan in quite a few singles matches, those sound promising. I'm not giving up on IWRG, as frustrating as they are.

As far as AAA goes, Averno's debut match was TITS, it deserves a solid write-up and pimping in the MOTYC thread. Averno's turning into a lovely grumpy middle-aged FUCK.


----------



## USAUSA1

Concrete said:


> Zzz. They're saying something.
> 
> PS: Terry vs Lucero. THE STUFF!


LOL, I thought the same.


----------



## Rah

Sin Nombre woulda worked better, imo.




Chismo said:


> Where the fuck are Traumas and Navarro? No wonder their business is in the shitter.



Jumping from Mascara Ano (who is shit) to the shitty drunkard known as Mr Niebla:


----------



## USAUSA1

AAA TV (SAT) 06/07 Plaza de Toros La Concordia, Orizaba, Veracruz 
***Verano de Escandalo, 2014***
1) Aerostar, Ludxor, Venum vs Carta Brava Jr., El Apache, Súper Fly
2) El Elegido, Faby Apache, Mascarita Sagrada, Pimpinela Escarlata vs Mamba, Mini Abismo *****, Sexy Star, Silver King
3) Crazy Boy, Joe Lider, Niño Hamburguesa vs Daga, Eterno, Steve Pain
4) Angélico vs Dark Scoria, Australian Suicide, Bengala, Hijo del Fantasma, Fénix, Pentagón Jr., Jack Evans [AAA CRUISER, #1 Contenders, semifinal]
5) Psycho Clown vs Texano © [AAA HEAVY]
6) Cibernético, La Parka, Myzteziz vs Averno, Chessman, el Hijo del Perro Aguayo 

Cruiserweight match going to be crazy. Hopefully, Psycho Clown wins the title he deserves it. I want too see Myzteziz interact with Chessman. I also want too see Averno destroy everyone.


----------



## Obfuscation

Rah said:


> Batten down the hatches, there's going to be a war:


You know you love staring at this b/c the manifestation of the match being like a quinceanera gone wrong has potential to happen.



USAUSA1 said:


> Myzteziz is the new name for Mistico/Sin Cara and its trademark by AAA. Once again, a company own his name and gimmick. He still going to be using Sin Cara/Mistico on the indy scene. Smart move by AAA, bad move by Myzteziz/Sin Cara/Mistico.


Awful name. Of course it's plenty fitting.


----------



## USAUSA1




----------



## hbgoo1975

USAUSA1 said:


>


Interesting. I hope it works out all right for him.


----------



## Punkhead

USAUSA1 said:


>


Awesome mask.


----------



## Chismo

*CMLL 2011/5/20*

La Mascara vs. Averno

_Averno tricks Mascara during his fake entrance, and just flat out destroys him in primera caida with nasty powerbomb on the ramp and some piledriveresque… thing. Great shit right there, and yes, I know it’s a typical CMLL formula, but it was executed so lovely. Segunda caida was fierce as fuck, very heated and chaotic, Averno was owning the crowd right, left and centre, and both competitors basically ripped each other’s masks almost completely, heh. The ending with the fat ref crook doing what he does best was glorious, it was like watching a rigged NBA game, and a final nail as such a perfect prelude to the mask vs. mask match that followed. Now, I don’t know where this match ended in 2011 lucha MOTYC ballots, but it better be high._

****1/4


*CMLL 2011/6/17*

*Mask vs. Mask*: La Mascara vs. Averno

_Like a well-oiled machine. First two falls were relatively short, but rich enough. Averno was dickish, Mascara made few heroic comebacks that were highly appreciated, especially considering that suicide-dive-meets-the-chair bump that would make Benoit proud. There’s nothing better than seeing a suit in the crowd marking the fuck out for babyface’s comeback. Total heart and pure feelings right there, such a great crowd. Tercera caida reached epic levels, not necessarily in terms of quality, but definitely in terms of overall aura, excitement and energy. Unfortunately, Averno leaving his total dick attitude behind him (he was still a dick, though, just not a giant one) and letting Mascara dictate the pace prevent this match from being a total masterpiece. But still, it was great enough, technique and execution were absolutely flawless, even with those things being totally secondary to me, it’s aforementioned competitive energy and excitement that made this match._

****1/4​


----------



## USAUSA1

That main event should be fun but the undercard is not bad either.


----------



## Chismo

Watched some AAA ’14 this week, already talked about Averno’s debut, Demon/Villano and Chessman/Villano in the MOTYC thread, this is the rest:


- (2014/2/9) Chessman, Daga, Pentagon Jr. vs. Angelico, Jack Evans, Australian Suicide ***3/4 _(few more minutes, and this would be a high end match)
_
-	(2013/3/16) *AAA Tag Team Title*: El Hijo del Fantasma & Psicosis vs. Aerostar & Drago vs. Demon Rocker & Machine Rocker vs. Angelico & Jack Evans © ***3/4 _(flipz and spotz~!)_

-	(2014/4/19) El Hijo del Perro Aguayo, El Texano Jr., El Hijo del Fantasma vs. El Cibernetico, La Parka, Psycho Clown **** _(chaotic brawling and red hot crowd, what’s not to like?)_

-	(2014/5/2) *AAA Tag Team Title*: Daga & Steve Pain vs. Angelico & Jack Evans © bad

-	(2014/5/4) Angelico, Jack Evans, Australian Suicide vs. La Anarquia (Daga, Eterno, Steve Pain) ***1/4

-	(2014/5/4) Chessman, Villano IV, Silver King vs. Blue Demon Jr., La Parka, Electroshock ***3/4 _(very quality time spent with old dudes smacking each other)_

- (2014/5/17) La Anarquia (Daga, Eterno, Steve Pain) vs. Psycho Circus (Psycho Clown, Murder Clown, Monster Clown) ***3/4 _(yet another awesome chaos)_

-	(2014/5/24) Averno, Black Warrior, El Hijo del Perro Aguayo vs. La Parka, Fenix, Bengala *** _(not on the level of other Averno brawls, but still good)_

- (2014/6/4) *AAA Trios Title*: El Consejo (El Texano Jr., Silver King, El Hijo del Fantasma) vs. Psycho Circus (Psycho Clown, Murder Clown, Monster Clown) © ***1/2 _(the Circus is insanely over)_

-	(2014/6/4) Averno, El Hijo del Perro Aguayo, La Parka Negra vs. El Cibernetico, La Parka, Monster Clown ***1/2 _(the Parkas <3)_


Thoughts: fuck me, but I really like what I see. The product is totally different style than more traditional CMLL, but it doesn’t strike you until you watch it in some form of continuity. Totally different trios style too, with tons of fun brawling and then one or two high-impact moves in the finishing run, and that’s it – game over. The atmosphere is awesome, crowds are electric, and there’s just an overall sense of belonging and controlled chaos. Psycho Circus might be the most underrated unit in the world, they’re goofy as fuck, but INSANELY over, and like the rest of the roster, they get the most out of very simple and basic wrestling. Hell, Psycho Clown looks like he’d crack my Top 20 list of wrestlers today. When I see more of him, I’m sure he will.


----------



## JustJoel

:lol Not to say I told you so

I've been really digging AAA as well - the crowds are always hot, and the roster has had massive improvements. Not much left of Secta, and most of the useless crowd - Alan Stone, El Eleguido, etc are kept together in usually one match (the aforementioned "car crash" matches of the glory/shit days) - and the rest is really fun. Exciting with such loud, all ages crowds for *shows* where very little repeats itself. Hour and a half breezes by most times, and I started watching two per sitting.

The crowd for Jarrett and the rudos was :mark: on the 2/9 show (I think that's the date, too lazy atm). You very rarely get that kind of heat anymore it seems. Jarrett took Karen on a victory lap at the end.


----------



## USAUSA1

Not a fan of Jarrett taking someone spot but he gets heat. Chessman and Averno together create a great dynamic.

Pyscho Clown vs. Texano Jr mask vs hair match at Mania. This will be Psycho come out party, to become the John Cena of Lucha libre.


----------



## Dead2009

>


poster of the upcoming Triplemania


----------



## Chismo

*CMLL 2014/6/2*

La Sombra, Marco Corleone, Atlantis vs. Shocker, Rey Escorpion, Polvora

_So, Sombra is on the tecnico team here, and he has a major beef with Shocker now, it seems, their sessions and heavy smacks across the face is what made this match so good. Shocker took his mask after the match, and it seems Mask vs. Hair is a lock for down the road, which is totally fapworthy, and has potential to be better than Shocker/Rush. The rest of the crew was just… there, with the exception of Marco Corleone, dude has some serious brawler potential. Someone find him a hate feud already, ffs._

***1/2


*CMLL 2014/6/3*

***** Casas vs. Rush

_Goddamn it, Rooosh is fantastic, he sells the feud with Casas incredibly well, you get the feeling he’s legit trying to MURDER the old motherfucker. Heavy smacks, hard stomps, superb heat, etc. Just a big plethora of stiff lucha, and all that in just six minutes. Yep, just six minutes, try to find a better sub-5 minute match from this year, I dare you._

***3/4


*CMLL 2014/6/6*

Rush, La Mascara, Titan vs. ***** Casas, Shocker, Felino

_Yet another heated Rush/Casas trio, goddamn I love this feud. These two are basically trying to beat each other silly, and watching Rush stomping mercilessly on 55 year old Casas is fucking TITS, he’s definitely one of the best heels in the industry. Scratch that, he’s THE best. His running dropkick to the corner is batshit vicious, and is giving Shibata a serious run for his money. Titan also embraced some of Roooshness here, awesome layout from him as well, Casas was money as usual, but the killer from the shadows in the match was Shocker. Dude was crazy, angry and violent, which is much appreciated. This was an excellent all-out brawl, and while I’m not a “blood=better” guy, damn, this would’ve been a total masterpiece with some juice on Casas or Shocker._

****1/4


*CMLL 2014/6/6*

*NWA Middleweight & Welterweight (Double) Titles*: Volador Jr. © vs. La Sombra ©

_Very disappointing, especially considering Volador’s hot streak before the match. Primera and segunda were quite good, but tercera felt kind of dry and emotionless for me, although the crowd was hot ‘n’ heavy, but I just wasn’t feeling it, too mechanic they were. Solid title match, but not good, when it’s all said and done. From the technical side, they did some fabulous and jawdropping stuff, some stiff moves were thrown around, but like I said, it was dry overall. _

**3/4​


----------



## USAUSA1

Dead2009 said:


> poster of the upcoming Triplemania


This is not for Triplemania. Triplemania will take place on 8/17/2014.


----------



## USAUSA1

Verano de Escándalo part 1 was basically a one match show. Psycho Clown vs. Texano Jr match was entertaining but not great. The fans was super into the match and Psycho Clown. For some reason it reminded me of the HHH vs. Rock matches but that could be just me.

Part 2 should be great with the Cadetes six man, 8 man cruiserweight match(which might be a MOTYC) and the main event with Averno/Chessman/Perro as a team.


----------



## Chismo

*AAA Verano de Escandalo 2014
*
_*(2014/6/7)*_

*AAA World Title*: Psycho Clown vs. El Texano Jr. ©

_Psycho Clown is the cheesiest motherfucker alive, but he’s also one of the most over guys on the planet. He’s also a great wrestler. From what I understood, this feud with Texano is on since the end of 2013, and Texano always finds a cheap way out to win. This was not a blow-off, but rather another feud advancer, as evidenced by the rudo ref ending and Clown’s challenge for a Mask vs. Hair match, that’ll probably happen at TripleMania. This was a damn good match in front of a red hot crowd, the first half was some awesome brawling with both guys bleeding, the other half was the ring action with nearfalls, shenanigans and stuff. Few tiny, tiny flaws prevented this from being a low-tier MOTYC, but no biggie there, I will remember this match-up._

***3/4​


----------



## bme

I thought *Psycho/Texano* was ok but the crowd was nuts.*Sombra/Volador* was really good and better than their pervious two matches. Wished *Rush/Cases* went a bit longer but it was good.


----------



## USAUSA1

Yeah, AAA crowds lately have been crazy. Though, I think Myzteziz buzz will eventually die down. I want to see him feud with Chessman and Pentagon Jr for the next year and a half especially Pentagon. 

Haven't seen Sombra vs. Volador yet. I keep reading its the worst of all their matches. Going to check out a few matches this weekend.


----------



## Manu_Styles

I am just starting again to follow lucha libre, just catch up with this month´s CMLL (Really enjoyed Volador Jr. and La Sombra/Rush/La Mascara group) and now i am starting with AAA Road to Verano de Escándalo.

Any recomendation from matches this year?
I also want to know the major storylines in both companies, thanks!


----------



## Chismo

Random AAA:


























Random CMLL: http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x367t7_thecubsfan_2014-en-busca-de-un-idolo/1#video=x1ze1eu


----------



## Obfuscation

Cheers. Was wanting some more Psycho Circus right now.

----------

Watched Rush vs Shocker the other day. The Hair vs Hair match, that is. Dug it quite a bit. Rush's stomps in the corner are vile. Hasn't he always been labeled a technico but is OPENLY the most hated rudo on the roster? b/c that kind of confused me in the past, but every time I see it now, I'm just blown away by it. In that good way, of course.


----------



## Chismo

*IWRG 2013/9/29
*
*Hair vs. Hair*: Black Terry, Alan Extreme, Dragon Celestial vs. Tony Rivera, Guerrero Mixtico, Ciclon Black

_So, in my quest for hidden pro-graps gems of internet wastelands, I stumbled upon this battlefield – a dirty, nasty lucha de apuesta brawl that eats little children. It has everything a classic lucha crime scene requires: shitty directing that looks like production guys are wasted from tequila, semi-full Arena Naucalpan that looks like a chaotic pub wreckage, topes into paying customers, obscure pro-wrestlers’ bodies flying everywhere, Black Terry choking in his own blood and bumping like a 17 year old kid, Black Terry and Tony Rivera trying to rip each other’s throats off, tons of heat and hatred, etc. I feared the match might go down the shitter once they finally decided to enter the ring for good, but nah, they kept rolling. TLDR, this was tremendous._

****1/2​


----------



## Rah

Fucking Terry is the man. Those guys coulda given a nice blowoff if IWRG didn't overbook their singles aspuesta this year


----------



## Chismo

*CMLL 2014/6/20*

*En Busca de un Idolo 2014 – FINALS*: El Hechicero vs. El Cavernario

_A totally fitting finale to a smashing tournament. Hechicero was at his creative best here, just a complete badass rudo whose experience even saved that horrific botch from Cavernario, who was also great, he’s most def come a long way, because I wasn’t really digging him at the beginning of the tournament, but in the meantime - he’s snatched my heart, damn it, such a fierce and intense tecnico, at this point I’ll watch anything he’s involved with. One great thing about lucha is that finish can happen at any time, which was really highlighted in this one._

****1/4​


----------



## C-Cool

Chismo said:


> *CMLL 2014/6/20*
> 
> *En Busca de un Idolo 2014 – FINALS*: El Hechicero vs. El Cavernario
> 
> _A totally fitting finale to a smashing tournament. Hechicero was at his creative best here, just a complete badass rudo whose experience even saved that horrific botch from Cavernario, who was also great, he’s most def come a long way, because I wasn’t really digging him at the beginning of the tournament, but in the meantime - he’s snatched my heart, damn it, such a fierce and intense tecnico, at this point I’ll watch anything he’s involved with. One great thing about lucha is that finish can happen at any time, which was really highlighted in this one._
> 
> ****1/4​



I watched this one as well. I give this the same rating, and at this point I am pretty much going to keep an eye each of these guys' matches from now on.

Hechicero especially. He has this sense of fluidity in his work that is seriously unlike most of the luchadors I've seen. Damn good (and I love his entrance music for some reason). I'm also glad he's gotten the hang of being a pure rudo, because his technical prowess can at times be so good, that it overwhelms his character work. Sometimes it hurts the story when people are just in awe of his skill, especially against other luchadors where there is a BIG talent gap (see: earlier in the tourney).

Meanwhile, Cavernario has two big things going for him: 1) He's not afraid of anything, and will try to do anything in the ring (because he's a caveman), and 2) He is so into his character in everything that he does that it's shocking. His character doesn't leave in the ring, or in interviews, or in promos. It's like he lives the gimmick. 

By the way, that huge body splash from the top rope is so dangerous, yet it fits his gimmick so well. Why would a caveman care about the risks? That is something that convinced me about Cavernario. 

Overall, the right two were in the finals (with much respect to Cachorro), and this was a great match.


----------



## Heath Scumm

Dead2009 said:


> poster of the upcoming Triplemania


Hey guys, my first post on this forum and decided to make it in Lucha Libre. Why not? 

I am more of a CMLL guy, love the presentation more and the lightning matches ... but I follow every year's TripleMania religiously and I must say that putting Mystezys as a centre piece of this show looks like a great idea.


----------



## amhlilhaus

C-Cool said:


> By the way, that huge body splash from the top rope is so dangerous, yet it fits his gimmick so well. Why would a caveman care about the risks? That is something that convinced me about Cavernario.
> 
> Overall, the right two were in the finals (with much respect to Cachorro), and this was a great match.


I agree about the top rope splash. he should tone it down though, and only do it for big matches going forward. he's gonna blow out a kneecap doing it.

and cachorro will be big someday, but it was too soon to have him in that spot.


----------



## Rah

> 5) Solar I & Valiente vs ***** Casas & ***** Navarro














> (Not a TV show.)


----------



## USAUSA1

Part 2 of Verano de Escandalo might be the best "wrestling" show AAA has air on tv so far this year. Sin Cara and Averno has been a HUGE improvement to the main event scene. I can't wait for Judas to come back and mix it up with them.


----------



## Chismo

*AAA Verano de Escandalo 2014*

_*(2014/6/7)*_

8-WAY ELIMINATION MATCH: Angelico vs. Jack Evans vs. Dark Scoria vs. Australian Suicide vs. Bengala vs. El Hijo del Fantasma vs. Fenix vs. Pentagon Jr.

_Some impressive spots aside, this was rather illogical and senseless. It wasn’t even batshit spotty.  I blame early Evans elimination._

bad


*AAA Verano de Escandalo 2014*

*(2014/6/7)*

Averno, Chessman, El Hijo del Perro Aguayo vs. El Cibernetico, La Parka, Myzteziz

_This is Mistico’s debut for AAA, and he’s welcomed by sucker punching to the face and mad dog Perro almost completely ripping his mask off. Niiice. The opening portions were some glorious brawling with complete and accurate hate, Averno is becoming grumpier and grumpier with each and every day, and it’s so swell. There’s a moment later in the match where Myzteziz tries to do some flippy stuff, only to meet Chessman’s gnarly fist out of the left field, it’s pretty much the moment of the match. Great stuff, I love the AAA style of doing big trios._

****​


----------



## USAUSA1

Triplemania will be on IPPV against Summerslam(rumor Cena vs. Lesnar main event). Should be interesting. I don't know how much crossover there are between fanbases,it might not make a difference. Didn't New Japan do an IPPV on the same day as Wrestlemania this year?


----------



## Punkhead

Mysteziz is great. Verano de Escandalo was pretty average, but props to Triple A for not overbooking the finis as they always do.


----------



## Chismo

*CMLL 2014/6/9*

La Sombra vs. Shocker

_So, in the whacky world of lucha, Sombra is a rudo in Arena Mexico, but tecnico everywhere else, and he’s pretty good in both. This match had the tecnico Sombra, and it was quite fantastic, but first things first, this was the Shocker show, from the beginning until the ending. Such an old school aggression and intensity, he gave Sombra a helluva beating in every caida. Primera had Shocker completely dominating the match and throwing Sombra around like a rag doll, but then he got too cocky, which enabled Sombra’s great comeback to win the caida. Shocker was furious and wasted no time, so he sucker punched Sombra in the face right in the middle of ref hand-raising. Understandably, segunda saw even more aggressive and gnarly Shocker trying to tie the score. Tercera was pure gold with Sombra busting out one of the most impressive comebacks of the year, and the finish was excellent with Shocker completely losing his cool. It also served as a setup for a potential apuesta match down the road. So yes, this match was glorious._

****1/2


*CMLL 2014/6/10*

Los Indeseables (Rush, La Mascara, La Sombra) vs. Shocker, Ultimo Guerrero, Gran Guerrero

_Another Indeseables trio worth watching. Rush is the ultimate rascal of pro-graps, he just turns everything into a merciless brawling, as evidenced by primera caida here. The rest of the match was not all that impressive, tbf, especially tercera and the finish, but great primera and solid segunda made something out of this._

***


*CMLL 2014/6/13*

*Campeonato Mundial de Parejas CMLL*: ***** Casas & Shocker vs. Rush & La Mascara ©

_Just about every combo was pretty damn good here. Naturally, the match is made by the Casas/Rush animosity, it’s all one big build to an eventual hair vs. hair match, but then there’s also Shocker seeking revenge on Rush for losing his hair against him earlier this year. Big write-ups are futile here, this was simply an action packed, fast-paced and logical match._

***3/4


*CMLL 2014/6/17*

El Gallo, El Cachorro, Dragon Lee vs. Arkangel de la Muerte, Misterioso Jr., El Hechicero

_Hechicero’s Busca de un Idolo BEEF with Cachorro and Lee carried this match, therefore it was pretty good every time they were in it, and pretty meh when other three guys wrestled. Hechicero is pretty much the best._

***1/4


*CMLL 2014/6/17*

El Cavernario, El Felino, Herodes Jr. vs. Angel de Oro, Delta, Guerrero Maya Jr.

_I don’t know when and where, or why did Cavernario and Oro start their beef, but they actively despise each other. It pretty much carried the match, and when you add Maya doing his thing into the mix, you get a very nice trio._

***1/4


*CMLL 2014/6/17*

Volador Jr., Fuego, Valiente vs. ***** Casas, Ephesto, Gran Guerrero

_***** Casas and Fuego have great chemistry. But then you see Casas and Volador having great chemistry as well, and then you remember it’s ***** Casas you’re watching after all, he has great chemistry with EVERYONE. Very good trio match here, I already mentioned three top guys, but the other three were totally fine too, especially Valiente. Volador is growing on me, though, never thought much of him before. Just like Rush, he has no mercy for 55 year old Casas, he goes full force, it’s like he’s trying to break his face. Excellent finish too._

***1/2​


----------



## Rah

I'm eating my words here, but AAA put on a fantastic show with Verano De Escandalo that I almost enjoyed from top to bottom. From an entertainment standpoint, this is the best show since Wrestlemania and I'm honestly shocked that I would say that from an AAA promoted event. Outside of the 8man exotico tag, every match had something to make it either standout or be remembered for. I should probably exclude the Anarquia/Mexican Power trios but there's something awfully mesmerising about Hamburguesa doing dives. Besides, Tirantes Jr + thumbtacks is hilarious each time we get it. Tirantes has become a booking trope of AAA, in using him as a crutch for their laziness, but he interjected his moments well here, without ever overshadowing the match or the wrestlers, in the slightest.

Safe to say, Venum and Aero Star are crazy-ass daredevils that are going to regret each and every spot they do once they hit middle age. Not sure how their bodies are keeping up with the toll, already. But the stars of the show was the double main event. Damn, were they great. Perhaps not from a critical standpoint, but both matches delivered exactly what they intended to do. I've never been much of a Psycho Clown supporter, and Texano is one of my boys, but I found myself actively willing for Psycho Clown to finally win that strap and marked hard at each time he kicked out at a nearfall. Mini Clown still annoys the tar outta me, but Psycho's charisma was all over this match that I couldn't even begin to hate on Mini's over-done hype game. Finish aside, it was nice to see both men, Texano especially, be booked so strong, too.

The main was every bit as good as I'd have hoped it could be, and is one of the best AAA mains in a long, long time. This iteration of La Sociedad is the epitome of wrestling novelty. Averno's a nice pickup for AAA while Chessman holds down a sick beating and Perro remains the best guy in the promotion by miles. He walks a fine line between comedic taste and heel workover, but does it as well as it could be done without making himself or his opponent look like a chump. Surprised at how the faces did, as well. Cibernético and his shittiness was kept to a minimum, Parka was genuinely funny for once and Myzteziz delivered some nice-looking spots that popped the crowd huge. 

I'm a little disappointed we didn't get any shoddy Dorian Roldan trolling or gifworthy Konnan moments but those are more personal cherishes than actual expectation at this point. Thumbs way up for what AAA are doing.


----------



## USAUSA1

It was a fun show. I hope Triplemania is just as good. Only two matches announced for Triplemania, Pyscho Clown vs.Texano Jr in a mask vs. hair match and a multi man cruiserweight title match.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I got to see Verano De Escandalo too, and it was a good show for AAA. Mystezis over huge was unexpected. They got their next money maker with him and Perro. I don't see the appeal in Daga. He wrestles like the biggest mark, copying what he's seen on tapes...not a fan. Pentagon with that diving rolling piledriver made my jaw drop.

I agree this show had more standout moments/spots then the normal show.


----------



## USAUSA1

LOL, I like Daga because he is different from the rest of the guys. Remember how Dean Malenko used to stand out in the cruiserweight division as the technician, that's Daga role except Daga is trying to copy MMA.


----------



## Rah

Friend I watch AAA with is the biggest Daga mark. I'm not sure I'm wholly sold on him to that degree, but I can name plenty wrestlers worse than him in AAA, so he gets a pass from me for that.


Unrelated note, there's another Silver Star/Charles Lucero match online that Concrete and JoeRulz can go giddy for


----------



## bme

Matches from Verano de Escandaloart 2 were ok, hope we get Myzteziz in more singles and 2on2 matches.


----------



## Srdjan99

Sorry if mentioned before, but where can I watch AAA or CMLL shows online? Their weekly shows ( if they have) are not posted on XWT, and I'd like to know if I could watch them somewhere


----------



## ExMachina

*CMLL Guerreros del Ring - 24.09.2011*
Mexico City, Mexico

*(Hair Vs. Hair Two Out Of Three Falls Match) - Demus 316 vs. Pequeno Warrior*
*_3/4_

*NWA World Historic Welterweight Title (Two Out Of Three Falls Match) - La Sombra (c) vs. Volador Jr.*
***_1/4_​


----------



## USAUSA1

Srdjan99 said:


> Sorry if mentioned before, but where can I watch AAA or CMLL shows online? Their weekly shows ( if they have) are not posted on XWT, and I'd like to know if I could watch them somewhere


https://www.youtube.com/user/luchalibreaaatv/videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/thecubsfan/videos


----------



## ExMachina

*CMLL Super Viernes - 31.05.2013*
Mexico City, Mexico

*(Two Out Of Three Falls Match) - Averno, Mr. Aguila & Rey Escorpion vs. Blue Panther, Brazo de Plata & Shocker*
**

*(Two Out Of Three Falls Match) - Ephesto, Mephisto & Volador Jr. vs. Los Estetas del Aire*
***_1/2_

*(Two Out Of Three Falls Match) - La Amapola, La Seductora & Tiffany vs. La Silueta, Lluvia & Marcela*
*_1/2_

*IWGP Intercontinental Title (Two Out Of Three Falls Match) - Shinsuke Nakamura (c) vs. La Sombra*
**_3/4_​


----------



## Srdjan99

USAUSA1 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/user/luchalibreaaatv/videos
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/user/thecubsfan/videos


Thank you


----------



## Chismo

*AAA 2014/6/28*

La Anarquia (Daga, Eterno, Steve Pain) vs. Joe Lider, Drago, Australian Suicide

_The beginning was very nice and coherent, but step-by-step, it all went down the shitter eventually. Too contrived and stupid match. I like Australian Suicide, tho, dude can go._

bad


*AAA 2014/6/28*

El Hijo del Perro Aguayo, Averno, El Zorro vs. Myzteziz, El Cibernetico, Psycho Clown

_Nothing but LOVE for these AAA main event trios. LOVE! Funny thing is, Zorro might be the match’s most valuable player. Ehhh, I’m so uninspired at the moment, can’t write for shit, just look at dem snowflakes, damn it… Very good match._

***3/4


*CMLL 2014/6/22*

LIGHTNING MATCH: Blue Panther vs. Ephesto

_Number of strikes and Irish whips: ZERO. All they did was exchanging holds in the middle of the ring in a highly grueling fashion, and it was fantastic._

****1/4


*CMLL 2014/6/24*

*??? Championship*: Arkangel de la Muerte vs. El Gallo ©

_Very nice lucha title match, clean and slick, with many gracious sequences and stuff… Okay, I know it doesn’t sound much on the paper, but trust me, it was swell, particularly the super creative finish. Never watched much of Arkangel, but he looks like a maestrish old fuck who can still hang with everyone. Gallo, though, is very over with the crowd._

***3/4


*Noches de Coliseo 2014/6/22*

*UWA World Middleweight Championship*: Silver Star vs. Charles Lucero ©

_Where has the old fuck Lucero been my whole life? Smh… The old maestro displayed some of the most scientific pro-graps I’ve ever seen, and you know funny thing? Silver Star is not too much behind. The sanctity of clean title matches in lucha was respected to a T here, and I don’t really know what to write about the match other than “tons of slick, gracious matwork and catapults done at a frantic pace”. This was a pure, sinewy struggle with an amazing finish. The lucha MOTY._

****1/2​


----------



## ExMachina

> *CMLL 2014/6/24*
> 
> *??? Championship*: Arkangel de la Muerte vs. El Gallo ©
> 
> _Very nice lucha title match, clean and slick, with many gracious sequences and stuff… Okay, I know it doesn’t sound much on the paper, but trust me, it was swell, particularly the super creative finish. Never watched much of Arkangel, but he looks like a maestrish old fuck who can still hang with everyone. Gallo, though, is very over with the crowd._
> 
> ***3/4



FULL World Title (FULL Lucha Libre) tried looking up more about but a simple Google search didn't provide me with much.


----------



## Corey

I just watched Sangre Chicana vs. MS-1 on a dvd I've had for a bit and it was quite literally some of the worst footage I've ever bared to watch from a wrestling match. I'm assuming it's the one several folks have raved about around this forum (September of '83, hair vs. hair) and mother of Christ it's a bloodbath. I can't even say I thought the match itself was anything special (although that may be because I wasn;t even sure what was happening outside the ring) but the actual spectacle of seeing that much blood without two guys being declared dead is incredible. Puts the Muta Scale match to shame.


----------



## USAUSA1

Now that is a match I want too see.


----------



## Rah

Pirata/Park/Wagner could be something.




Luchamania show said:


> 4) Charles Lucero b Black Terry
> 10:45
> 
> 6) Caifan b Rey Hechicero
> 33:42.


I'd have wished for a longer Terry/Lucero match, but 30 minutes of Caifan/Hechicero sounds bonkers so I'm happy.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

^ Please tell me the chances of those making tape are likely? Terry/Luchero ideally should be longer, but they might be able to work a fine Lightning match out of it and tease us for what they could do with 20 minutes. I'll take any form of Hechicero we get currently, and a 30 minute affair sounds exquisite.


----------



## USAUSA1

I thought the July 5th AAA tv show was a fun one. 

They did a good job pushing the Electroshock/Jeff Jarrett feud. I know the match will probably suck but I am interested in seeing the match. Jeff Jarrett getting fat, that doesn't matter in lucha though.


----------



## pgi86

Rush vs. ***** Casas Hair vs. Hair announced for August 1st. :bow

Hmm. I wonder what the anniversary show main event will be now that we know it won't be this.


----------



## Chismo

:mark: Enter VIOLENCE!



> I wonder what the anniversary show main event will be now that we know it won't be this.


Ultimo Guerrero vs. Atlantis, I reckon.


----------



## USAUSA1

Rush vs. ***** Casas is going to be a classic. Should sell out the place or close to it.


----------



## Punkhead

WOW. Haven't watched CMLL in a very long time. Will definitely watch Rush.


----------



## USAUSA1

AAA just posted a great dark match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1YivBEXKBQ&feature=youtube_gdata
Angélico, Australian Suicide, Jack Evans vs Hijo de Pirata Morgan, Hijo del Fantasma, Pentagón Jr.

Pentagon Jr is so f'n cool


----------



## Corey

It's been such a long time since I've seen a Lucha match and it took me a while to get back into the style of the wrestling, that I decided to watch these matches twice:

*NWA Middleweight Championship*
El Satanico (c) vs. Lizmark (April 1984)

This is my first time seeing Satanico and I'm already getting awesome vibes from him. The first fall features nothing but matwork and such but it's all really good and feels realistic. There's a really cool moment where Lizmark has a head scissors locked in and Satanico reverses it into a version of the boston crab until it's reversed again into a hurracanrana. The ending of the first fall comes after a quick arm drag and a butterfly suplex from Lizmark, but the way Satanico's head snaps against the mat makes it seem like he's suffered a head or neck injury. He sells it like he's been shot in the face in the beginning of the 2nd fall. Lizmark dominates on offense until he gets caught with a powerbomb after another 'rana attempt to even up the falls. The 3rd fall is a mad scramble of pinfall attempts and submissions until we get a cheap double pin from a Mexican stretch that was bridged back. Finish kinda stunk but I loved Satanico's performance throughout this. He went in and out of looking like he had a concussion and it was excellent. Some nifty matwork and counters too. **** 1/2*

*El Satanico vs. Super Atro (October 1984)*

Well if I liked what I saw from Satanico in the first match, I fucking LOVED what he gave me here. Right from the opening camera shot I love that he's wearing all red and makes a gesture to Astro that he's gonna squash him like a little bug and kick him aside. The first fall is skippable as Satanico dominates for a few minutes until Astro hits a small flurry of offense to get a pinfall. I hate when they do that. The 2nd and 3rd fall however tie into a wonderful story of pure domination & anger mixed with underestimating your opponent. After losing the first fall Satanico comes out as one pissed off bastard and destroys Astro in easy fashion after making him tap out then kicking him out of the ring like he was the little squashed bug. He proceeded to rip Astro's mask off, bloody him, and repeatedly bash his face into the turnbuckle. It was glorious.  He throws these quick combination punches as well that look super painful. A quick right to the jaw followed by a left to the gut. Astro sells them like a champ too. 

The 3rd fall was really fucking good. Astro makes a comeback and bloodies Satanico by giving him a taste of his own medicine and ramming his head into the turnbuckle. However, Satanico snaps at the sight of his own blood and comes back like a bull seeing red. My favorite part of this whole match is the slugfest they get into on their knees where Astro throws his entire body backwards and uses his head as a battering ram straight into Satanico's chest. Toss that in with Astro's unorthodox looking size and offense plus a really cool finish and you've got yourself a pretty darn good match. This Satanico guy is fucking glorious. ******


----------



## Rah

How long was that Astro match? Pretty sure my video was really short and it couldn't have gone three falls. 

What I do remember is Astro being beaten lifeless and then making these rather annoying fast-paced dives and moves right after being down for the count.

He certainly wrestled cleaner than I've seen before but it's another check as to why I find Astro incredibly overrated. Hoping my match is cljpped and I'm wrong, though.


----------



## Corey

Nah the match I watched probably goes 20 minutes and definitely three falls. The only time Astro has bursts of offense like you mentioned is in the first fall. I actually don't think he did any dives whatsoever in this match other than a leaping reverse headbutt thing off the top rope. I wasn't able to find the match online anywhere, but if you come across one where Satanico is wearing all red, that should be it.


----------



## Rah

Ah, I had the date wrong (1/5/85). Here's the match I was thinking of:







I take it those matches are off the DVDVR 80s Lucha set?


----------



## Corey

They may be but I'm actually watching them on a couple discs from IVP called 'Classic Lucha from the 80s'. I wouldn't doubt it if they're pulled right from that set though. I just watched the short match you posted and Astro reminded me WAY too much of Mil Mascaras there, where he would sell for 2 seconds and then decide he didn't want to anymore because he had to get his moves in. The match I reviewed actually depicts Astro as the underdog so it's much better. The standing figure 4 Satanico won with here is the same way he won the 2nd fall in the 10/84 match. Is that one his staple moves or finishers? Seen him use it a couple times now.

More Satanico greatness:

*NWA Middleweight Championship*
Gran Cochisse (c) vs. El Satanico (9/14/1984)

This match was fascinating on so many levels to me. The matwork in the opening fall is so good. So smooth. Neither guy is able to gain the upperhand and they always come to a stalemate. It's like they're wrestling mirror images of themselves. I don't know if Satanico is heel here or not but he truly doesn't wrestle like he is. Both guys seem to show mutual respect to each other throughout the entire match. Satanico wins the first fall with some kind of painful stretch maneuver and then insists the ref wipes the sweat off his arms.  He might have said that Cochisse was oiling his arms up for arm drags or something? Idk. 2nd fall starts with Satanico working over Cochisse's arm and he sells it well until reversing the armwork towards Satanico. Both guys sell that well for the next few minutes. The rest of the entire match is literally just a human chess match of two dudes struggling to gain an advantage throughout. The ending to the 2nd and 3rd fall are both excellent. The 3rd fall is a beautiful display of counter wrestling. They always have a pin attempt out of a reversal or a counter for a submission until someone finally wins with another ridiculous looking stretch submission. Celebration ensues and I just witnessed a classic. This is without a doubt the most I've ever enjoyed a Lucha match that didn't feature blood and violence and one of the best Title matches I've ever seen as well. Probably a serious MOTYC for 1984. ***** 1/4*

This one is definitely online for those who haven't seen it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpHDi_A6CWk


----------



## Chismo

So, this match has finally hit the streaming webz like two weeks ago. I watched it the very same day, but was too hammered to remember anything. Hell, I even forgot I watched the damn match until I stumbled upon it today again:






:mark: It's fucking ridiculously great. But, it takes place in Monterrey, and that town hates clean finishes.


----------



## USAUSA1

Don't F with Pentagon Jr

Pentagon Jr vs Arez from XMW


----------



## USAUSA1

According to Pwinsider.com, the Masked Republic production of "Masked Mania," which took place a few months ago at the former ECW Arena, will debut on traditional PPV in September. The show will be a two hour edited version of the event, and will be released with both Spanish and English commentary.

Lucha Libre is having a great day, really a great week of news. Rush vs.Casas announcement, AAA El Rey's start date and now this.


----------



## Rah

There's another Pentagon/Arez match where, apparently, Arez is knocked unconscious. Of course Pentagon continues the beatdown on the helpless guy. Where he got that knife in the above match, though, I'm not sure but that guy is legit warped. Fantastic to watch, though. Now if only Chismo would actually watch the shit I send him...



WOOLCOCK said:


> ^ Please tell me the chances of those making tape are likely? Terry/Luchero ideally should be longer, but they might be able to work a fine Lightning match out of it and tease us for what they could do with 20 minutes. I'll take any form of Hechicero we get currently, and a 30 minute affair sounds exquisite.


About as likely as a Chilanga Mask airing in full, I'm afraid. I'm hoping I'm wrong, of course.




Jack Evans 187 said:


> They may be but I'm actually watching them on a couple discs from IVP called 'Classic Lucha from the 80s'. I wouldn't doubt it if they're pulled right from that set though. I just watched the short match you posted and Astro reminded me WAY too much of Mil Mascaras there, where he would sell for 2 seconds and then decide he didn't want to anymore because he had to get his moves in. The match I reviewed actually depicts Astro as the underdog so it's much better. The standing figure 4 Satanico won with here is the same way he won the 2nd fall in the 10/84 match. Is that one his staple moves or finishers? Seen him use it a couple times now.



Yeah, it's a signature move of his.

I'm glad to see you're watching some Satanico, though. That guy is on a whole other level in terms of talent, and I've seen quite a few people throw him out as Lucha's best guy. Thirty years on and he's still a pretty good watch. Astro's on the other end of the spectrum for myself, though. I think I'm/we're in the minority on that opinion, but I'm glad there's someone else who doesn't much see anything from his work. While literally everyone else talks up Panther/Astro as the best AAA match to exist, or one of, I shake my head and think it's rather bad. Astro's no good in it, and Panther is trying too hard to do this comedic portrayal that he really shouldn't be doing. I love Panther to death but that was one of the worst showings I've seen from him, complete with some awful overselling to boot.

If we share a disdain for Astro, I wonder how you'd think of the match, and I'd be very eager to hear your thoughts whenever you do get around to watching it. It'd be equally interesting to see how you view some of the "matwork", too, considering I don't think you've seen Mariachi/Panther from '94 - a match that has some of the exact same spots just done better. If there's a highlight to Astro/Panther it's the primera caida matwork, and that's hardly much to write home about within that context, even if they did do them first.



USAUSA1 said:


> According to Pwinsider.com, the Masked Republic production of "Masked Mania," which took place a few months ago at the former ECW Arena, will debut on traditional PPV in September. The show will be a two hour edited version of the event, and will be released with both Spanish and English commentary.
> 
> Lucha Libre is having a great day, really a great week of news. Rush vs.Casas announcement, AAA El Rey's start date and now this.


Aside from being shorter, and I assume clipped matches, what will the difference be to the show which is currently available via WWN? Suppose we need Concrete to answer that one, seeing he has the show, already.


----------



## Concrete

Well hear you go, it was through Highspots for 30 days. So I paid $15 and got it for that duration as well as live. While I could have probably worked my way around the system, I didn't. Thus I don't have it anymore. Granted it sounds kinda dumb to do a PPV after the iPPV by a few months. 

Rush vs. Casas mate. Never gets old to see it on the screen.


----------



## Corey

Rah mentioned them both, so I said what the hell, let's watch 'em both:

*Mexican National Middleweight Championship*
Blue Panther (c) vs. Super Astro (AAA 10/18/1992)

What in the actual hell was this? :lol I went into this with a completely open mind, having only seen Panther in one other singles match before and Astro in 2. This was hilarious. If you told me Panther was drunk, I'd believe you. I've never seen anyone oversell a simple facebuster like that before in my life. So the first fall had some cool little moments on the mat with some headstands and handstands and such, but it's not like any of it made sense. Cool to look at but that's it. The 2nd fall ended way too quickly; and with an abdominal stretch? Come on now. So the third fall I can definitely see _why_ some may enjoy it, but it gave me so many laughs. Panther's ridiculous selling continues 100% and there's times where he actually looks like he's stumbling around the ring for no apparent reason. These two men had not been through a war by any means. Other hilarious moments include Astro going for a moonsault without even looking to see if Panther was in position (and he clearly wasn't) and Panther signaling to go up top just have second thoughts and simply fall on Astro with a headbutt. Oh and I can't forget the lazy "elbow drops" Astro fell onto Panther with and the REPEATED use of Panther's flat drop spinebuster. I think I counted 5 of those. There was however two really badass dives from Astro in the 3rd fall that would look sweet as hell on a highlight reel, but that's it. There was no story whatsoever because Astro seemingly dominated the whole match and Panther really never had a comeback. He just stumbled around into moves somehow. I'm gonna give this **** simply for entertainment purposes because I had a load of fun watching this.

*Mexican National Middleweight Championship*
Blue Panther (c) vs. El Mariachi (AAA 10/30/1994)

Now this is what I'm talkin about. Much better effort put forth by both men. Panther doesn't look drunk so we're good there. Everything they strung together in the first fall was totally gorgeous and didn't look forced at all. I love the pinfall Mariachi had to come up with to win. Cradle both arms AND hook a leg. I don't remember too much sticking out from the 2nd fall other than another really nice pinfall variation to get Panther the win. It was never a cheap ass finish, they both had to fight to get their 1-2-3. The 3rd fall had another sweet dive and a lot of near falls that the crowd bought into so hard. The submission Panther busted out in the end was RIDICULOUS. Idk what the hell it was but it looked awesome. I don't think there was much of a story here, rather just a really fun exhibition. I enjoyed it either way. **** 3/4*


----------



## Mon Joxley

Mask vs. mask match at Triplemania?


----------



## USAUSA1

I doubt it, maybe down the line but not at Mania. Australian Suicide would be the one to lose his mask anyway.


----------



## Mon Joxley

USAUSA1 said:


> I doubt it, maybe down the line but not at Mania. Australian Suicide would be the one to lose his mask anyway.


Which is good because that mask is hideous and I'm a big fan of his pre-Mexico work.


----------



## USAUSA1

Any matches on YouTube of his pre Lucha days?


----------



## Mon Joxley

Not too many, but this one is good:






Also his heel work was great:


----------



## Punkhead

When is the Rush/Casas match?


----------



## Concrete

I can't seem to understand AAA's YouTube channel so someone help me figure out the shows with things resembling "good wrestling". THANKS!

EDIT: August 1 for that SEXY MATCH!


----------



## Chismo

Rah said:


> Now if only Chismo would actually watch the shit I send him...


Okay, tRAsH, I'm heading off to play some streetball now, and when I come back, I have like 10 brand new lucha matches to watch, your garbage is No. 1 on th list, I swear a fucking Christ, because obscure lucha! :mark:



Concrete said:


> I can't seem to understand AAA's YouTube channel so someone help me figure out the shows with things resembling "good wrestling". THANKS!


Cubsfan's channel, that's what I watch, there are usually 3-4 AAA matches every week, so it's easy to pick those with potential to entertain. Just avoid those multi-man cruiserweights, ffs.



EDIT:


*XMW 2014/6/21*

Pentagon Jr. vs. Arez

_Ouch! Poor Arez, alls I’m sayin. Honestly, Pentagon looked like the most vicious motherfucker on god’s green Earth here, he was on offense all the time, all Arez had to do is bump like a madman and hit few hope spots. It all worked. Pentagon was shining this barbaric, merciless, menacing vibe, really reminded me of Super Dragon. This was such a great brawl, held in a piece of shit venue with the roof leaking heavily. Awesome._

****1/2​


----------



## Corey

Just finished watching *Sangre Chicana vs. Villano III *from '84 and my goodness that was incredible. It didn't feel like a wrestling match in the slightest. It was incredibly reminiscent of the Chicana/MS1 original but this seemed to leave a much bigger lasting impression on me. Villano's destruction of Chicana was a sight to behold and his comeback consisting of a big swing out of left field and one of the most aggressive looking tope suicidas I've ever seen was done perfectly. Chicana ripping off the mask just for the ref to call for the DQ and award Villano the match followed by a swift kick to the nuts for revenge was awesome. I was left in awe by how incredible this was despite not even having any real wrestling or a true finish at all. I'm gonna watch MS1/Chicana again sometime in the future but I have a hard time believing I'll like it as much as this. This felt so gritty and real.

Other matches I've watched in my '80s Lucha viewings that I didn't quite care for:

- Hair Match: Javier Cruz vs. El Dandy (10/84. I literally remember nothing from this despite watching it within the last week. So that tells you how good I thought it was. Maybe it ended in a double countout? Idk)

- Hair Match: Sangre Chicana vs. MS1 (10/84. The rematch that didn't feature anywhere near the amount of violence as the original. I thought this was pretty decent but got a bit repetitive as they just threw punches and both of the last falls ended on countouts after dives. Sweet dives though. Chicana acting ike he was a cornered animal was good.) 

- Jerry Estrada vs. Atlantis (1984? This was decent as well but nothing to go out and see. All 3 of the falls seem to end in extremely lazy fashion and Atlantis hit an annoying amount of flapjacks and spinebusters for my taste.)

- About 4 or 5 other trios/multiman matches that I couldn't stand to watch in full because I never have any idea what the fuck is going on or who is who. There's rarely ever any structure in any of them and the ref never has any control over what's going on. They're just not for me and sometimes the amount of pinfalls that happen in the match just do not make sense to me. There was however a Los Infernales 6-man that was structured how I'm accustomed to, but it was nothing standout. A match that had Villano III and Perro Aguayo in it actually had some really fun moments too plus a good last fall but I don't remember who else was in it and don't feel like looking. 

There was a match that was the last thing on my final disc that cut out after the first couple minutes. Jerry Estrada vs. Ultraman from '84. Anyone know if it's any good or do they have a link for it?


----------



## USAUSA1

Chismo said:


> Okay, tRAsH, I'm heading off to play some streetball now, and when I come back, I have like 10 brand new lucha matches to watch, your garbage is No. 1 on th list, I swear a fucking Christ, because obscure lucha! :mark:
> 
> 
> 
> Cubsfan's channel, that's what I watch, there are usually 3-4 AAA matches every week, so it's easy to pick those with potential to entertain. Just avoid those multi-man cruiserweights, ffs.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> 
> *XMW 2014/6/21*
> 
> Pentagon Jr. vs. Arez
> 
> _Ouch! Poor Arez, alls I’m sayin. Honestly, Pentagon looked like the most vicious motherfucker on god’s green Earth here, he was on offense all the time, all Arez had to do is bump like a madman and hit few hope spots. It all worked. Pentagon was shining this barbaric, merciless, menacing vibe, really reminded me of Super Dragon. This was such a great brawl, held in a piece of shit venue with the roof leaking heavily. Awesome._
> 
> ****1/2​


You describe Pentagon Jr. perfectly.

The venue made it look even more special/raw even though it was a dump. Hopefully, one day we get a Pentagon/Myzteziz feud one day,I can imagine the heat to that match.


----------



## USAUSA1

The AAA show that aired over the 7/12 weekend was a decent show. Pentagon Jr abusing Angelico was fun. I thought the finish to the Aerostar/Super Fly six man was a nice touch to continue the feud. I like the Texano/Pyscho Clown boxing-mma style sitdown. Hopefully, there is more on the way.


----------



## USAUSA1

Hair vs. Hair Cage Match at Triplemania, Electroshock vs. Jarrett. Should be a clusterF match with a non finish but it will probably get a reaction.


----------



## Rah

Cubsfan re IWRG main event said:


> *5) Hijo De Dos Caras b LA Park and Máscara Sagrada and Pirata Morgan and Demon Clown and Dr. Wagner Jr. [IWRG IC HEAVY, Ladder]*
> Probably first ever IWRG ladder match for the vacant championship. (Vampiro last won the title and immediately retired.) They broke the only two ladders which could be used to climb to get the belts. They found a third ladder, the kind you lean against a wall, and Pirata Morgan and two referees held the ladder up so Hijo de Dos could climb it. Dos couldn’t get the belt untied from the rope for a long time, but was eventually declared the champion.












This may just beat out Grimes/Chaos as the most pathetic match involving ladders, I've seen.






Jack Evans 187 said:


> It's been such a long time since I've seen a Lucha match and it took me a while to get back into the style of the wrestling, that I decided to watch these matches twice:
> 
> *NWA Middleweight Championship*
> El Satanico (c) vs. Lizmark (April 1984)
> 
> This is my first time seeing Satanico and I'm already getting awesome vibes from him.


Satanico's probably an easy case to make when it comes to Lucha guys that deserve a run within all-time worker discussions, at least with regard to his peak. 80s Satanico is marvelous and 90s Satanico gets less love than it should. I think I could probably count on half a hand the number of 2000 CMLL Satanico matches I've seen, so I can't give an accurate description of him, but he's still wholly capable whenever he randomly pops up. The two Dandy matches from this year, while not good, showed that he still has something to him. The maestro trios from last year was an excellent outing, again, and he more than kept up the pace with the likes of Panther and Navarro.

There's another two matches of theirs that made tape, 17/7/92 and 17/9/93. I don't think they ever had a blowaway classic, but their speed vs skill pairings always delivered a competitive matwork exchange where nothing comes "easy". Staying on that year, get onto the Satanico/Pirata Morgan hairs match from 19/11/1993 AAA. Most would hold Pirata as one of, if not the best, Lucha brawlers ever. Satanico's got a fantastic right hand of his own, and he's no stranger to being a sick fuck, himself. The blood dripping off his hand, and running from his smile (due to gnawing into Pirata's forehead), at the closing of the primera, is only the start. Remember we both hated the Panther/Astro bulldogs? Well, Satanico damn well tries to break Pirata's nose with them here. Pirata makes up for that in the tercera, though.




Jack Evans 187 said:


> Rah mentioned them both, so I said what the hell, let's watch 'em both:
> 
> *Mexican National Middleweight Championship*
> Blue Panther (c) vs. Super Astro (AAA 10/18/1992)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: review
> 
> 
> 
> What in the actual hell was this? :lol I went into this with a completely open mind, having only seen Panther in one other singles match before and Astro in 2. This was hilarious. If you told me Panther was drunk, I'd believe you. I've never seen anyone oversell a simple facebuster like that before in my life. So the first fall had some cool little moments on the mat with some headstands and handstands and such, but it's not like any of it made sense. Cool to look at but that's it. The 2nd fall ended way too quickly; and with an abdominal stretch? Come on now. So the third fall I can definitely see _why_ some may enjoy it, but it gave me so many laughs. Panther's ridiculous selling continues 100% and there's times where he actually looks like he's stumbling around the ring for no apparent reason. These two men had not been through a war by any means. Other hilarious moments include Astro going for a moonsault without even looking to see if Panther was in position (and he clearly wasn't) and Panther signaling to go up top just have second thoughts and simply fall on Astro with a headbutt. Oh and I can't forget the lazy "elbow drops" Astro fell onto Panther with and the REPEATED use of Panther's flat drop spinebuster. I think I counted 5 of those. There was however two really badass dives from Astro in the 3rd fall that would look sweet as hell on a highlight reel, but that's it. There was no story whatsoever because Astro seemingly dominated the whole match and Panther really never had a comeback. He just stumbled around into moves somehow. I'm gonna give this **** simply for entertainment purposes because I had a load of fun watching this.
> 
> 
> 
> *Mexican National Middleweight Championship*
> Blue Panther (c) vs. El Mariachi (AAA 10/30/1994)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: review
> 
> 
> 
> Now this is what I'm talkin about. Much better effort put forth by both men. Panther doesn't look drunk so we're good there. Everything they strung together in the first fall was totally gorgeous and didn't look forced at all. I love the pinfall Mariachi had to come up with to win. Cradle both arms AND hook a leg. I don't remember too much sticking out from the 2nd fall other than another really nice pinfall variation to get Panther the win. It was never a cheap ass finish, they both had to fight to get their 1-2-3. The 3rd fall had another sweet dive and a lot of near falls that the crowd bought into so hard. The submission Panther busted out in the end was RIDICULOUS. Idk what the hell it was but it looked awesome. I don't think there was much of a story here, rather just a really fun exhibition. I enjoyed it either way. **** 3/4*




I'm rather glad that there's someone who shares a similar view on Astro. I'm not alone in the world, now. I'd love to say it's down to a few wrestlers, but the more I watch, the more it appears that there's a lot of over-selling in the late 80s, early 90s main event style and it drives me angry to no end. The portrayal Santo does against Casas in their '87 epic I can stand, to some extent, but not when it's as ludicrous as what we have in Astro/Panther. I enjoyed Mariachi/Panther much more than you did, admittedly, considering I'm not sure there are two better guys with the talent to work maestro matwork singles. I think I'd have the Panther/Casas matches above it, if not by much, though. 



Spoiler: my own reviews



*Blue Panther Vs Super Astro (18/10/1992 AAA)* – if Panther's career as a luchadore never took off the ground, at least he could fall back on being a headstand artist. The first fall is almost entirely both luchadores bending and balancing each other in interesting ways with Astro plugging in some visually appeasing running spots to break the continuity of their matwork. Damnit if I don't hate his running bulldog spot, though, as both moments came across as utter junk with Panther comedically over-selling the first to the point of it becoming hard to watch. This is a rather interesting Panther performance, too, as I've never seen him actively wrestle a comedic role (or, at least, to this degree). He does his matwork fine but, inbetween the holds, there's a portrayal that's just not sitting right with me. Their cutesy headbutt spots most certainly don't help either (though the latter is perhaps a cliche of the time period more than anything else). It's a shame, because there's a good match somewhere between the two, but it's not happening on this day. I'd love to write it up to Astro, a singles guy I've not much thought high of, but Panther was equally disappointing here. Mariachi/Panther did some of the same matwork spots and struggles better, to boot. *SKIPPABLE*


*Blue Panther Vs El Mariachi (30/10/1994 AAA)* – A glancing look toward the thumbnail had me believing I was about to witness a rather oddly looking Rayo De Jalisco taking on Blue Panther. The wrestling and a quick Google search told me otherwise. Thank fuck. I'm equally thankful for being able to witness Solar and Panther going at it, in their respective primes, almost two decades earlier than the work I'm so used to them putting out. This is almost the exact reason as to why I wanted to traverse through Panther's career because, as good as he still is, his prime had to have been so much better. Unashamedly I admit it's even better than I thought it would be. Both luchadores are so crisp in their executions and it baffles the mind at how they can keep that fluidity going, especially at the pace they were wrestling for a good portion of this match. It's equally great to see how diverse they kept the match. While both are talented mat specialists, they wrestled and bumped in and out the ring throughout. I highly doubt there are too many Panther matches that will be better than this one. *EXCELLENT*







Jack Evans 187 said:


> *[1]* sometimes the amount of pinfalls that happen in the match just do not make sense to me.
> 
> *[2]* Jerry Estrada vs. Ultraman from '84. Anyone know if it's any good or do they have a link for it?



[1] in trios it's worked as a "captains" styled match. To win the fall, you either have to pin the captain or pin both of the other guys. Most of the time, the heels with dominate with quick pins to start, but you do get the odd match that draws drama from that ruling.

[2] that [user]God of Cunt[/user] guy loves Estrada and, iirc, likes the match. He knows his lucha, so I'd trust him. Though I assume he only likes Estrada because he relates pretty well to the out of control alcoholism on display in most of Jerry's matches.


----------



## Corey

Added Satanico/Morgan to my eventual watch list. (Y) Gonna try and make my way through the '80s first and try to compile my own little list with only singles matches (considering tags confuse the fuck out of me) and then I'll move onto what should be a pretty crowded list of good '90s stuff. Current list:

1. El Satanico vs. Gran Cochisse (9/14/1984)
2. Sangre Chicana vs. Villano III (1984)
3. El Satanico vs. Super Astro (1984)
4. Mask Match: Villano III vs. Flama Roja (1987)

I never wrote a review for the 4th match but I watched it last week and thought it was great outside of Flama Roja not holding up his half of the match nearly as well as Villano did. Lot of really good limbwork and bloody goodness throughout but they lost track of what they were trying to do late into the 3rd fall and weren't selling enough.


----------



## USAUSA1




----------



## amhlilhaus

saw this and thought it was interesting. love where my boy cavernario is.

http://indeedwrestling.blogspot.com/2014/07/mookieghanas-lucha-1000-2014-ytd.html


----------



## USAUSA1

El Hijo Del Fantasma MLW radio interview http://traffic.libsyn.com/mlwradio/138Fantasma.mp3

Good interview


----------



## Rah

The Luchamania Monterrey show is finally making tape. I asked if they have Hechicero/Caifan, but Cubsfan posted on his page that they do but are not legally allowed to show it. Heart wrenching. Still, we have something!


----------



## aivaz

El Santo retirement match is online:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQn8WXymIVo


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

aivaz said:


> El Santo retirement match is online:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQn8WXymIVo


Nice find. The people behind that channel also do a radio show and talk lucha. I've heard it before and one of the persons actually grew up with el hijo del santo, and tells old stories about that. How El Santo would never take off his mask, for nothing. He would even swim/shower with it on. lol


----------



## Lazyking

I'm on crappy wifi on my tablet but wanted to tell RAH that i watched the two Virus title matches he rec'd and I'm glad I did.

Of the two, vs Stigma wasmy fave but that's morethe overall story then anything. I like Fuego way more espis missile dive but the story of Virus getting frustrated with not putting stigma away was more xompelling.

As always, Virus was a beast. Love how diverse he can be in a match and make it all look easy.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Kemonito interviews Rush and ***** Casas :






summary translation
Kemonito: Hey *****!
***** Casas: What do you want monkey?
Kemonito: Any words for Rush?
***** Casas: The only words I have for him are not allowed to be said in public!
Kemonito: Dont you think your too old to take on Rush? *runs out of room*
***** Casas: *kicks Kemonito out the door* Stupid monkey. Rush do not get over confident because you are young. Time will put you in your place. Bastard!






summary translation
Kemonito: Hey Rush! 
Rush: Whats up?
Kemonito: What you want to say to ***** Casas?
Rush: You want to ask me again what I just said out there? Alright for the camera here. 
***** I'm going to retire you, words mean nothing, I am going to demonstrate it with actions, I am going to retire you, you dog! and you! *smacks kemonito* don't ask me shit again!
Kemonito: *cries on floor*

Also found out that Steve Pain is done with AAA and will not be at Triplemania, sucks because he is a good hand and was going to be his first big show. Reason is a personal problem outside of work.


----------



## Certified G

Just saw Arena Mexico 57th Anniversary Show popped up on XWT. I haven't watched a lot of Lucha Libre lately (almost nothing tbh) so I'm pretty excited to watch this show even if it's a year old show.

Before I start watching, does anyone know the general reception to this show? And are there any other recent must-see Lucha Libre shows? I'm definitely looking forward to watching more of it and familiarising myself with some more Luchadors.


----------



## Rah

:cheer:cheer:cheer:cheer TONIGHT :cheer:cheer:cheer:cheer




Lazyking said:


> I'm on crappy wifi on my tablet but wanted to tell RAH that i watched the two Virus title matches he rec'd and I'm glad I did.
> 
> Of the two, vs Stigma wasmy fave but that's morethe overall story then anything. I like Fuego way more espis missile dive but the story of Virus getting frustrated with not putting stigma away was more xompelling.
> 
> As always, Virus was a beast. Love how diverse he can be in a match and make it all look easy.



I didn't much like Fuego's performance through the second fall, but Virus was so damn good in those two matches. He's had three title defences this year and all of them were world class outings. I just wish we had him face off against Panther, one more time.


----------



## TigerDriver91

Has there been any luchadoras matches rated *** or higher this year in Mexico?


----------



## USAUSA1

Rush/Sombra vs. Casas/Shocker air on Azteca America, thought it was a fun match.


----------



## Rah

Don't fuck with Los Oficiales


----------



## USAUSA1

Video de la Semana 1 de Agosto de 2014 

Cool highlight video of the August 1st show.


----------



## amhlilhaus

TigerDriver91 said:


> Has there been any luchadoras matches rated *** or higher this year in Mexico?


I don't think the observer of f4 rates lucha matches. it's a shame. I think there's been plenty of 3* rated matches, the idol finals with hechicero and cavernario immediately springs to mind.

any random rush/casas 6 man is probably above 3 as well.


----------



## USAUSA1

amhlilhaus said:


> I don't think the observer of f4 rates lucha matches. it's a shame. I think there's been plenty of 3* rated matches, the idol finals with hechicero and cavernario immediately springs to mind.
> 
> any random rush/casas 6 man is probably above 3 as well.


I think he talking about the females. There's a ton of amount of *** plus matches for the male wrestlers.


----------



## USAUSA1

Dr Wagner being the surprise really shock me. Thought it would be Mesias.


----------



## Rah

Is Wagner going to be healed in time? He was scheduled to be out for three weeks after L.A. Park got his hands on him in a match the other day



Spoiler: brutal photo


----------



## Lazyking

Jesus, did LA Park shoot him with a shotgun?


----------



## USAUSA1

Rah said:


> Is Wagner going to be healed in time? He was scheduled to be out for three weeks after L.A. Park got his hands on him in a match the other day
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: brutal photo


I do not know but he will probably take it easy during the match.

I know Konnan is probably mad they brought him back. Thecubsfan think TV Azteca has something to do with this since Wagner is on a show on the network and they own the building. I am thinking with Blue Demon and Wagner returning, this was probably a request from El Rey/Factory Made Ventures. They don't really need LA PARK since they already have their own La Parka.

Speaking of El Rey, TheCubsFan found this gem http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4801:p1edu4.4.1


----------



## Concrete

Hey Rah, about that Officials thing...did they just try to murder a teenager with an old man trying to back them off with a chair?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Concrete said:


> Hey Rah, about that Officials thing...did they just try to murder a teenager with an old man trying to back them off with a chair?


From the looks of it that kid is trying to stand up for his grandmother or whoever that old lady is that appears to throw a drink on them. So of course being wrestlers, they will work anything, and being that its in their home arena. They have to stand tall to cover their ass. Didn't look like much to be honest.

Very predictable surprise of Wagner returning to AAA. Looks like a stall point in between Mystico/Perro being planned.

CMLL Juicio Final higlights video (every spot in the match reel)
*CONTAINS SPOILERS*


----------



## Rah

Concrete said:


> Hey Rah, about that Officials thing...did they just try to murder a teenager with an old man trying to back them off with a chair?


All started when the teenager threw his tin can at AK47's (?) head, which seemed to legit piss him off.




USAUSA1 said:


> Speaking of El Rey, TheCubsFan found this gem http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4801:p1edu4.4.1


Link is no longer valid. What is it?


----------



## USAUSA1

Lucha Libre FMV(Factory Made Ventures)/El Rey trademark the name Lucha Underground on July 25th. That might be the name of the tv show, originally it was Lucha Uprising but Pro Wrestling Revolution tv show is that name.


----------



## Corey

Alberto Del Rio has been announced for Triplemania this weekend. No idea what his role will be as of yet considering he probably has a no compete clause.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Alberto Del Rio has been announced for Triplemania this weekend. No idea what his role will be as of yet considering he probably has a no compete clause.


I couldn't believe it when I saw. I still won't untill I see it.

Anyways, there is a lot of press regarding his situation, there's loads of sympathy for him atm. He will be the most over babyface in the company if he shows up. That is, if they don't fuck it up and have Jeff Jarret smash a guitar over his head. fpalm

Or some other stupid storyline.


----------



## Rah

He's also claiming he will wrestle as Alberto Del Rio, so there goes the apparent trademark WWE has. Does he debut under a mask, costing Myzteziz the Triplemania Cup and ally himself with Perro/Sociedad? Probably/hopefully.

Rather AAA than CMLL, anyway. He's a big enough name not to get lost in the shuffle, and I'd rather see AAA build up a strong main/upper card scene than have CMLL drop their older yet talented guys for Del Rio. Mistico/Del Rio is back in swing, and this ain't gonna be pretty. Broken/dislocated fingers may be the least of Myzteziz' worries now.


----------



## Lazyking

I'll tell you one thing. Del Rio being on the show makes me want to watch the show.


----------



## aivaz

Can't wait for Triplemania AKA Alberto Del Rio Bitchslapping Tour - Day 2 (Venue: Mistico's face)


----------



## USAUSA1

And I thought Dr Wagner was a surprise. I am a little disappointed, I would rather see him in CMLL and help out that brand.

Not sure if ADR fits in with the El Rey Super Heroes project but am sure they will use him if they can.

I think ADR will eventually end up in TNA after they sign a tv deal.


----------



## asdf0501

Rush vs Casas is online






And Atlantis is set to have a Mask vs Mask match against Ultimo Guerrero on the aniversary show


----------



## USAUSA1

Rush vs. Casas is so awesome, Casas look completely tore down and only made Rush look better in the process. Its the perfect way to do an old man vs. young man match.

What's up with Ultimo Guerrero beating all the top young guys in the past month?


----------



## amhlilhaus

rush beat casas' ass. he's such a dick, pure asshole beating the parrot guy at the beginning. his cover of casas in the 3rd fall is awesome. 

they need to turn him technico fast so he can lead to a resurgence of Mexican wrestling.

as for del rio joining AAA, I'm guessing he'll be a rudo so he can feud with mistico, since they seem to be building around mistico as their top guy.


----------



## Deptford

holy shit just found this thread!!!!!!


----------



## Saber Rider ^-^

Alberto Del Rio has confirmed he is coming to AAA.








> "Hello fans of wrestling and specially AAA. The boss is back and what better place than AAA to become his new home. Thank you for the support and as you know, where the boss is there's quality and where AAA is there's quality. There's no better place to be. See you soon and god bless."


http://www.cagesideseats.com/videos/2014/8/14/6001297/alberto-del-rio-wwe-aaa-video


----------



## USAUSA1

This year Triplemania is really getting heavy coverage. Del Rio appearance, Myzteziz first Mania, possible Rey appearance, Vampiro tweeting he has no idea whats going on and he suppose to be commentating,Wagner as the surprise luchador(or is he.....). Hopefully, by the end of the night Psycho Clown will look like the big star.

Hopefully, the IPPV work this time.


----------



## Rah

Still in two minds about Psycho winning. Love Texano to death but Psycho needs this after the wondrous story they have crafted. 

Triplemania > Summerslam


----------



## Deptford

Yep I'm watching triple mania over summer slam. Good for a Dr going to a better fed


----------



## Lazyking

is triplemania on traditonal ppv here in the states? I have the network so I may buy triplemania if its not too much.


----------



## amhlilhaus

USAUSA1 said:


> This year Triplemania is really getting heavy coverage. Del Rio appearance, Myzteziz first Mania, possible Rey appearance, Vampiro tweeting he has no idea whats going on and he suppose to be commentating,Wagner as the surprise luchador(or is he.....). Hopefully, by the end of the night Psycho Clown will look like the big star.
> 
> Hopefully, the IPPV work this time.


if patron is a baby face and set to challenge texano for the mega title, then it looks like psycho will be the third top face after him and mysteziz. my question is who will be the top rudo's to face them? texano, averno, aguayo jr maybe?


----------



## USAUSA1

amhlilhaus said:


> if patron is a baby face and set to challenge texano for the mega title, then it looks like psycho will be the third top face after him and mysteziz. my question is who will be the top rudo's to face them? texano, averno, aguayo jr maybe?


Hopefully, Pentagon Jr destroy all 6 of them but that's my dream.

Mesias supposed to come back next thursday at a house show. He can work both sides and probably the best to work with Del Rio.

The lack of Zorro at Triplemania is interesting. Zorro must have a backstage role, he is still working house shows.

I could see Averno going back to CMLL but AAA seems to love him personally.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Lazyking said:


> is triplemania on traditonal ppv here in the states? I have the network so I may buy triplemania if its not too much.


Unfortunately it is not available here in the US. It is being offered on traditonal ppv in Mexico and surrounding US/Mex border cities if you got a mexican cable box.

It is on ippv if you want to try it that way. www.triplemaniatv.com you pay through paypal $15 usd and they email you a log in to watch the show. Other than that I don't know any of their policies about replaying the show or who is streaming it.

They will be putting up the show in parts 2-3 weeks later on their youtube channel I hear. 


Psycho is going to win no doubts about it. But a big part of me wants him to lose, so we can end the Psycho Circus 6 man tag cycle. Not to mention he is a terrible wrestler. 

It was rumored Mesias would be turning rudo, but he shot down the idea as the day approached. Now with the addition of Mysteziz, Wagner and El Patron, a top rudo spot is much more attractive. Now if they brought in LA Park :mark:

I am interested to see if Jarrett brings the Bullet Club to AAA and what that would mean for the CMLL/NJPW relationship.


----------



## Concrete

Someone wanna post the full TripleMania card here? That'd be sweet.


----------



## Corey

*Fatal Four Way Match For The Copa TripleMania XXII*
Cibernético vs. Dr. Wagner Jr vs. El Hijo del Perro Aguayo vs. Mysteziz.

*Hair vs. Mask Match*
El Texano Jr vs. Psycho Clown.

*10-Way Championship Unification Match For The AAA Fusión & AAA World Cruiserweight Championships*
Daga (c) vs. Fénix (c) vs. Angélico vs. Australian Suicide vs. Bengala vs. El Hijo del Fantasma vs. Jack Evans vs. Joe Líder vs. Pentagón Jr vs. Ricochet.

*8 Person Mixed Tag Team Match*
Aero Star, Jennifer Blake, Mascarita Sagrada & Pimpinela Escarlata vs. Mamba, Mini Abismo *****, Sexy Star & Súper Fly.

*AAA Reina de Reinas Championship Match*
Faby Apache (c) vs. Taya.

*Hair vs. Mask 6 Man Steel Cage Match*
La Sociedad (Averno, Chessman & Jeff Jarrett (w/Karen Jarrett) vs. Blue Demon Jr, Electroshock & La Parka


----------



## Rah

6man tag not a 6way? Well that made it infinitely better.


----------



## Deptford

So many legend matches damn


----------



## almostfamous

So... Is this event going to be good? Admittedly, I don't really follow lucha as much as I'd like.


----------



## bme

Finally Mysteziz in singles action.
10-man should be a good clusterf*ck and just noticed Ricochet's name, seriously where isn't he wrestling nowadays ?
Mixed tag match should be ok.
First AAA woman's single match i'll be seeing in a long time.
Multi-person cage match ? Definitely have my attention there.
Hopefully Texano/Clown 2 is better then their first match, crowd should be hot for this.


----------



## USAUSA1

Can't say if the matches will be good work rate wise but the crowd will eat up everything. Psycho vs. Texano might be great or average depending on their efforts. The four way will probably be great because Wagner and Myzteziz usually bring the goods. I miss Mesias because he is like the Undertaker of Triplemania matches in my personal opinion(his matches with Wagner and LA Park were great).

El Rey tweeted they will have an announcement about Lucha on Monday. I heard they will not use AAA Mexican talents and it will be more like a tv show than a promotion. It suppose to be a wrestling show we never seen before. I guess its a wait and see situation because everyone been quiet about the project. AAA legally own the show with El Rey, technically its still an AAA project regardless of the talent.


----------



## Lazyking

Its a shame Del Rio/El Patron can't work in the states for a year. He would be perfect for the lucha show.


----------



## Deptford

The main event should be really really good IMO. 
Texano Jr. vs Psycho Clown will be interesting to say the least. 
The cruiserweight championship match can't really be anything BUT entertaining. 
Blue Demon Jr, Electroshock & La Parka should make for a great 3 man team.


----------



## USAUSA1

The Cubsfan wrote a good article and explain the matches and each wrestler on the card with photos. 
http://luchablog.tumblr.com/post/94999643993/triplemania-xxii-wrestler-guide


----------



## amhlilhaus

Cubsfan rules.


----------



## USAUSA1

Both Ricochet and JJ missed their flights. Please stop booking Americans and use your home base.


----------



## USAUSA1

Triplemania ended and overall it was ok work rate wise with good production and angles. Too much blood

I thought the cruiserweight multi man match was awesome and the 8 man tag and main event was ok. They did an angle with ADR and Perro to start their feud. Texano/Psycho Clown wasn't bad but it was too much ECWish to me.


----------



## aivaz

A video promo with Rey was played at the end of the show....


----------



## USAUSA1

aivaz said:


> A video promo with Rey was played at the end of the show....


I didn't see it


----------



## aivaz

https://twitter.com/luchablog


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

USAUSA1 said:


> Both Ricochet and JJ missed their flights. Please stop booking Americans and use your home base.


I was wondering what happened. Just saw most of triplemania. Missed the first 2 matches.
Yes, El Patron appeared and actually did a quick match. In which he squashed Hijo del perro Aguayo at the end of his match for "cheating" and disrespecting the hall of fame inductees earlier in the show.

Before ADR actually got into it, he said "If I do this there may be legal consequences as a result of my participation, I will do it if AAA supports me legally" The owner gave him the thumbs up and they went at it. Crowd wasn't super hot, it was more of a casual crowd.

Texano jr. vs Pshycho Clown is a must see match.

Had the stream shit on me and lost it for minutes during the womens and cage match, and it did lag quite a bit. Very dissapointing there but then again I expected that to happen.


----------



## USAUSA1

Maybe I was too hard on the Texano/Psycho match but I would like to see a straight up match between these two without any interruptions and weapons. Their matches reminds me of the HHH/Rock 2000 matches, that's the first thing that comes to mind. I wonder what's next for the two.

Cibernetico and Wagner really should have not wrestle. AAA blew it this year because the main event should of been Perro vs. Myzteziz.


----------



## USAUSA1

Rey promo

I did'nt see this on the live feed.


----------



## amhlilhaus

USAUSA1 said:


> Maybe I was too hard on the Texano/Psycho match but I would like to see a straight up match between these two without any interruptions and weapons. Their matches reminds me of the HHH/Rock 2000 matches, that's the first thing that comes to mind. I wonder what's next for the two.
> 
> Cibernetico and Wagner really should have not wrestle. AAA blew it this year because the main event should of been Perro vs. Myzteziz.


it seems like they're going to go with patron/aguayo to build to next year. that leaves mysteziz without someone, a hair match with averno? and psycho is without direction too and he didn't get the title. I guess in mexico it's more important to win mask/hair matches than titles but still where does he go from here as well?


----------



## Corey

I understood something about exiting this company and 22.


----------



## USAUSA1

They shouldn't do IPPVs again. Two years in a row with problems. Just not worth the effort. Plus, they going to air the show anyway for free the next 3 weeks on tv. They should try a LIVE traditional ppv in the states next time.


----------



## USAUSA1




----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I got around to seeing the first 2 matches of Triplemania (or pieces of them I should say) through this streaming site I found. Very choppy stream, actually missing bits of the matches just like it was live. Wasn't impressed, Sin Limite calibre show overall, but with a good Texano/Psycho match to round it out. By the way Vampiro is the GOAT lucha commentator.


Found this cool poster for a lucha show headlined by Mil Mascaras in a trios


----------



## USAUSA1

Dark match from the last tapings

Pentagon Jr, Hijo Del Fantasma and Super Fly vs. Aerostar,Drago and Bengala

Yeah, this match F'N rules.


----------



## USAUSA1

Is the Dragón Rojo Jr. © vs Rey Escorpión match any good?


----------



## Rah

I haven't seen it, but I can't imagine it being a blow away. Escorp had a great 2013, but eh, not sure he's carying that too far. Decent/goodish should be the expectation but I'm not batting for Rojo delivering anything inherently good of himself. That said, if that goes over 15 minutes I'd stay far away.

That dark match sounds fantastic.




> ***** Navarro, Trauma I, Trauma II vs Arkángel de la Muerte, Nitro, Skándalo
> 
> Toryuman Mexico 9/7/14


:mark:


----------



## JustJoel

Found Triplemania slightly disappointing, considering how much I've liked the Sin Limite weekly show. English commentary was mostly bad, although Vampiro is Dusty Rhodes bad 

Solid opener, nothing out of the norm. Would've preferred Apache in it, but whaddaya gonna do? I don't know why, but these matches are always the perfect opener for me. 

Did the Crusierweight match have some strange stipulation where you had to be dropped on your head first to be eligible for elimination? It was a lot of head drops. Pentagon's got me with that running package piledriver. Thing of beauty. It was a spotfest, and not particularly good, but fun. 

Enjoyed Taya/Faby. Faby is definitely my favorite female wrestler - she just makes it look easy, unforced. Did Taya break her nose? Didn't catch how, but it looked legit considering her sell. Referee fuckery was unnecessary, but so it goes. *****

The legends match was godawful - Chessman jumps off the cage before half the entrances are done. Parka enters, hits a tilt-a-whirl backbreaker, and escapes in the span of _maybe_ 90 seconds. I felt bad for Averno for being lumped in there. Vampiro telling Electroshock to "help his buddy" before he entered was a headscracher. This match nearly ruined the show for me, an old-school AAA trainwreck. The backcracker off the top was the pièce de résistance - what a pile of shit. 

I was roundly surprised how much I liked Texano/Psycho. Both dives were really good from Psycho, good heat, and a quality showing from Texano. I actually liked the shenanigans with the ref, and thought it fit well considering how the previous matches ended. Nice powerbomb from Texano, and they got me on the Destroyer. Finish was awesome, definitive. Liked the post-match interactions. MOTN at ****3/4*

Didn't care for the ME, and thought the show was running long by then. Really excited for Aguayo/Patron - that's the money feud for me, over Aguayo/Myzteziz.


----------



## Rah

*Hijo del Santo, Rayo de Jalisco Jr, Tito Santana vs Blue Panther, Nikozuna (Tama), Wild Samoan (Samu) (06/10/1995 WWO)* – The guys in charge of this interpromotional match-up surely do screw up the introduction graphics. That, or they really do believe Rikishi and (original) El Santo wrestled here. The match starts off with the heels trying to stall and work up the crowd. Samu's all too eager to jump back onto the apron, just as the crowd's agitation is about to climax. Thankfully Panther whisps him off and has them taunt the crowd for a little more. Panther then signals for Tito to make the move on Tama, who has his back turned to Tito. Something about this is giving me fear of the quality that the rest will bring.

For the moment, though, this is a interpromotional show, with the houseshow premise of excessive heel stooging, face/comedy work and big-time bumping. Look past the Panther/Rayo and Rayo/Tama crowd-pleases and you've got a swank as fuck exchange between Panther/Santo that makes anything worthwhile. Their chemistry is off the charts good, and these guys are perfectly crisp in their execution of some rather breakneck speed action. With only minor hints of Panther's comedy antics shining through in the Astro match, it was rather rejuvinating to witness him work the clowning heel to Rayo's typical style. Out of the dozens upon dozens of Rayo matches I've seen, Panther may be his best foil. While that may not say much, considering his opponents usually range from the immobile (Canek), to the boring (Universo 2000) all the way down to the drizzling shits (Tinieblas), it still holds as a moment where I finally find Rayo's shtick fun for the reasons it was designed. 

The primera is heavily stereotypical in its encompass of the larger Samoan size against the small, local heroes. A frenzied all-out-war, once the pairings have been run through, leads to a mistimed giant Samoan Splash that puts out the heels for the shine win to start. Witnessing Panther squished under the obese Tama as Rayo and Tito collapse onto them is mesmerising. Santo doing his gymnastic twist to the mix makes it even more so. Howled with laughter as Tama is struggling to get off Panther, following the pin, only for Santo to just fuck him around with a beautiful butt-bump that trampolines him right off Tama's back.

The rest of the match leaves the comedy behind, in favour of some brutal workover. Honestly, too, there's some really good work done by the Samoans. They kind of wave off too much of the damage they've taken in a few holds, but Samu's pretty damn quick in his transitions and Tama works the fat and laboured beatdown well. He swaps to selling the face comebacks monumentally, too. The fall off the turnbuckle, as Rayo shakes the ropes, was beautiful. 150Kg of Samoan fat just headstanding off the second rope, screaming about his now injured nuts, is the greatest thing in wrestling history. This may be far too formulaic and mistimed/miscued to be considered good but this is one of the most fun matches I've seen in a long, long while. *FUN~!!!*


----------



## USAUSA1

Dr Lucha Steve Sims and Konnan will talk tonight on MLW radio.


----------



## Rah

The only respectable reaction to IWRG's typically shitty booking


----------



## Punkhead

Just watched part 1 of Triplemania. Opener was a typical cruiserweight spotfest, nothing very special, but wasn't very sloppy either. The women's match was much better than you'd expect. Taya has improved a lot in the past year. That was a great match I must say.


----------



## USAUSA1

The Manowarrior said:


> Just watched part 1 of Triplemania. Opener was a typical cruiserweight spotfest, nothing very special, but wasn't very sloppy either. The women's match was much better than you'd expect. Taya has improved a lot in the past year. That was a great match I must say.


She got a broken nose during the match and continue to wrestle through. Lance Storm should be proud.

The 10 man got better once Pentagon took over.


----------



## USAUSA1

Don't know what I was thinking but the Pyscho Clown/Texano Triplemania match was fn awesome. So, much better the second time around for me. My personal favorite match of the year.


----------



## Deptford

Still haven't watched triplemania


----------



## USAUSA1

Deptford said:


> Still haven't watched triplemania


AAA posted most of it on YouTube.


----------



## bme

10-man Match was really good
Clown/Texano was ok but got good towards the end, why wasn't it for the title ?
Taya/Faby was ok
Cage Match and 4-way were duds


----------



## Flawless Victory

So Konnan said that Alberto is going to be wrestling in Cancun at the HardRock in 2 weeks :mark:


----------



## USAUSA1

CMLL anniversary show will stream online


----------



## Concrete

USAUSA1 said:


> CMLL anniversary show will stream online


kada


----------



## Deptford

Clown/Texano was ALRIGHT. 
It really only got good towards the end and then ended kind of abruptly with a rushed spot. 
At least Psycho got his win but kinda dumb it wasn't for the title. 

It was a kind of underwhelming event all in all. Still haven't seen the ME though. 



USAUSA1 said:


> CMLL anniversary show will stream online


:dance:dance 
I actually prefer CMLL. Call me crazy.


----------



## Lazyking

Don't think anyone would call you crazy.. most here seem pro CMLL.


----------



## amhlilhaus

Lazyking said:


> Don't think anyone would call you crazy.. most here seem pro CMLL.


I guess I'm crazy, I like both.

My only issue with cmll is they're so big it took me months to figure out their top guys, and I still have doubts I got them all


----------



## cablegeddon

You know that triplemania press conference that dr.Wagner interrupted? Awesome promo by Wagner! Ill post the video


----------



## Deptford

Lazyking said:


> Don't think anyone would call you crazy.. most here seem pro CMLL.


That's cool! I do like both though! 
Awesome sig btw. It's good to know that I was wrong in my assumption in that lucha fans only liked AAA.


----------



## Concrete

Deptford said:


> That's cool! I do like both though!
> Awesome sig btw. It's good to know that I was wrong in my assumption in that lucha fans only liked AAA.


To be fair you might find a few more people negative towards AAA.


----------



## USAUSA1

I like both


----------



## Oda Nobunaga

I love CMLL, but I have a hard time following their shows. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I know AAA has a youtube channel (which I watch), but the only CMLL channels I've seen are of short promotional vignettes and interviews. I need a way to follow their product in HD without downloading anything, just watching.


----------



## Deptford

I haven't seen a channel. I just follow their upper mid card and main event wrestlers and type in their names and see what matches they're having and put the pieces together. 

yeah, just watch a bunch and find the wrestlers you like and type them in and a year and you can usually find most of what you need to know about a story or their progression and whatnot. That's what i do. Someone here probably has a better way to follow CMLL.


----------



## Rah

http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/


CMLL, AAA and indies are all covered. Whether it's results (caida breakdowns and storyline progressions), upcoming cards or lucha news you'll find it there. Each wrestler is colour coded depending on their alignment - green for tecnico, red for rudo and black for other (maestro, tweener etc). AFAIK, blue is unknown. Every Tuesday at around 5pm GMT he uploads to both Sendspace and Youtube that week's Lucha. Full shows are uploaded to Uploaded.to, if you wish to watch the entire programme, but I rather make use of the individual matches and skip the filler/bad ones. This week's can be found here. Of course AAA have their own channel, but it doesn't have individual matches or match cards for each show. While that may be fine for those who actively follow AAA, and enjoy the interviews/promo videos you get alongside, Cubsfan is still a good means of sifting through AAA's cards for matches you actually do wish to see.


Outside of AAA and CMLL, the other shows are rather skippable. IWRG used to be one of the best promotions in the world with a litany of talented workers. Sadly, booking has favoured a main event of shitty workers and the good matches sometimes don't make air. Outside of the white-hot Traumas/Oficiales feud, there's not much reason to watch them. Noches De Coliseo is more different than anything else. If Charles Lucero is involved, you're definitely guaranteed an old school match-up (sometimes even a lengthy matwork title showcase!). If it's another worker like Mr Nice or Konan Big, rather stay away.


----------



## Oda Nobunaga

Awesome. Sounds good. I remember I used to watch CMLL full shows earlier this year and I can't remember what channel on Youtube it was on, if it was on cubsfan's or not.

Found it. https://www.youtube.com/user/LuchaLibreDeMexico/videos

His updates are very inconsistent, though. Last CMLL upload was in May.


----------



## Super Sonic

Meltzer in today's Observer:



> The elusive major attempt to market Mexican wrestling in the U.S. to both the Hispanic and non-Hispanic audience, talked about for decades ever since a successful few year run in California faded away, is on the verge of becoming a reality.
> 
> It’s been a running joke since the mid-90s, more from AAA than anywhere else, that “next year” we’ll be running the U.S.
> 
> Well, somebody is coming. It’s affiliated with AAA, was originally talked about as being AAA, but it’s not in any way the AAA product that appears to be making a comeback in Mexico.
> 
> Lucha Underground, the latest name for the group, debuts with a TV taping on 9/6 in Boyle Heights, in Los Angeles, in a TV studio-like setting, for a weekly show on the El Rey Network from 8-9 p.m. Wednesday nights, which will debut on 10/8.
> 
> Other announced taping dates are 9/7, 9/13, 9/14, 9/27, 9/28, 10/4, 10/5, 10/18, 10/19, 10/25 and 10/26. All shows will be free admission but you have to contact [email protected] with name, phone number, e-mail address, date you are looking for tickets and the number of people in the group. Because it’s a free taping, they are requiring everyone to sign nondisclosure forms where they can’t report anything that happened before they let them in. All fans have to be 18 and older. Lucha Libre without kids in the audience loses a lot of atmosphere.
> 
> Aside from web site listings, some online tweets and posts and flyers on the cars who attended the PWG shows over the weekend in Reseda and some posted signs in the area, there doesn’t seem to be much publicity for the weekend tapings.
> 
> There have already been a lot of comparisons made between this and Wrestle Society X, the MTV show which tried to present a different version of pro wrestling. This itself is expected to be yet another different version. Time will tell whether that’s good or bad. The reality is it depends on the commitment from the distributors and producers, which include media heavyweights like Robert Rodriguez and Mark Burnett, and finding a vision that can create a loyal audience.
> 
> Enthusiasm had been high for the project, but that has dissipated as contracts were sent out, and literally at the 11th hour, there are scripts done and tapings set, but nobody knows what talent will or won’t be there. Much of the talent offered contracts lost enthusiasm given aspects of the contracts that left people with bad tastes in their mouths,
> 
> The main issue is that El Rey is a station that has limited clearance and no viewership. Today, you need a network that can provide strong viewership to open a wrestling franchise up to make money in merchandising, licensing and doing live events, which is the ultimate goal this company has, with that starting around the fall of 2015.
> 
> AAA seems to be increasing in popularity in Mexico as attendances are bigger this year than in the past few years. With the potential of a superstar lineup that would include Alberto Del Rio, Rey Mysterio (next year) and Myzteziz, to go along with Perro Aguayo Jr., they may grow even bigger in 2015. If they can harness some of the “undiscovered” spectacular performers around the world and have the ability to make stars, there may be potential in the Mexican-American market, a market that is growing in the U.S. and supports pro wrestling at about double the rate of the rest of society.
> 
> But AAA is still far from the boom periods of the early 90s and mid-00s.
> 
> In the early 90s, when AAA had its run of success in the U.S., it was because it was on in a good time slot on a station that delivered huge ratings in Los Angeles, there were a lot of Lucha Libre fans, and they were loaded with both new style workers and legendary characters from the past.
> 
> This program isn’t going with the legends (very notable that Myzteziz is not part of this roster, who seems to be the guy who has helped increase business in Mexico, nor Aguayo Jr., Cibernetico, La Parka and the other big names in the promotion). There is no Perro Aguayo or El Hijo del Santo or Cien Caras or a main event heel like a Jake Roberts or Mexican hot celebrities of the time like Konnan or Octagon like what AAA had in that era.
> 
> The idea doesn’t seem to be to bring AAA to the U.S. like bringing in a major Mexican entertainment act to Hispanic cities. Instead, it looks to create something from scratch using some young wrestlers from AAA and mixing in some American names, a few who have had exposure with WWE and TNA, and others who are great working indie guys.
> 
> Another key aspect is that they are trying to do it with a minimal talent budget, and in this industry when your competition is WWE and TNA, that approach for a national product would make it difficult to get traction. For example, it would seem to be obvious where one would turn for an English language announcer in Jim Ross. While Ross may not want to be part of a start-up in pro wrestling, the key is that there were people with the project very interested in him a few months ago, yet he was never given a serious offer and was never personally approached at any point.
> 
> The expectation is there will be a second station carrying a Spanish language version of this, believed to be on UniMas, which used to be known as TeleFutura. UniMas is the third highest Spanish language network in the U.S., behind Univision and Telemundo. It averages 720,000 viewers in prime time, so it’s roughly as popular as Spike, but with a different audience, and its strongest in Hispanic Males 18-34.
> 
> The reality is, between UniMas and El Rey, if they are in prime time on UniMas, and Spike drops TNA, this promotion will be No. 2 in the U.S. on television in 2015, even if it makes no breakthrough to the Anglo market. But if they are not in prime time on UniMas or able to get to that level of viewership if they are, at least at first, that is not going to make much of an impact. Plus, this is a very difficult time to create a new promotion from scratch, when the casual audience is lower and the fervent audience for the most part are fans of WWE, not pro wrestling.
> 
> The talent situation is very much up in the air right now, with only days until the first taping.
> 
> Konnan (as an on-screen performer most likely in a heel manager role), Ricky Reyes, Karlee Perez (Maxine for a brief run in WWE), Martin Casaus (who was in the last season of Tough Enough, the guy who looked like Donny Osmond, and was injured) and B-Boy have officially signed.
> 
> The biggest name floating around is Ricochet, but there is a hold-up since he has an existing contract with Gabe Sapolsky’s Evolve/Dragon Gate USA group, and that doesn’t take into account agreeing to a deal that many feel isn’t worth signing for.
> 
> Other names that have been floated around include The Young Bucks (who have reportedly turned down the offer), Ryckon Stephens (Ezekiel Jackson), Angela Fong (a very athletic Oriental woman and former British Columbia Lions cheerleaders, who had the most potential of any woman in WWE developmental as a worker, but at the time they weren’t all that concerned about athletic ability of the women, and she got dumped in the numbers game when Gail Kim was signed because, you know, they all look alike), Frankie Kazarian (also reported to have turned it down), Matt Cross, Scorpio Sky and Rocky Romero.
> 
> What is notable is that at first, the thought process was to not use ex-WWE talent, unless it was someone like Alberto Del Rio or Rey Mysterio, but now they ended up with interest in a ton of them. Del Rio may be appearing in the crowd at the shows taped this week, with the idea of him not wrestling to get around his non-compete.
> 
> It’ll be impossible to get a read on what this is until it airs, and perhaps most importantly, until we see the time slot it airs in on UniMas and what kind of an audience it gets. It is going to draw a lot more fans on that station than on El Rey, even it will premiere first on El Rey.
> 
> There are a lot of complaints going around regarding the contracts offered. The wording of the contracts includes exclusivity for seven television seasons, which scares people regarding how long seven seasons could be, given it could be and probably means seven years. If this goes nowhere, but stays in existence, much of the talent doesn’t want their careers paralyzed or to make a commitment that pretty well kills their dreams of going to the WWE for so many years.
> 
> Andre Verdun, a former wrestler out of San Diego, is representing a lot of the Southern California based talent. It’s coming down to the wire because there is a publicity shoot scheduled for 9/4 and at press time, very few had actually signed.
> 
> On 8/29, the casting agent brought in a new group of talent and had them cut promos and read scripts to replace any of the wrestlers in the current scripts in case they don’t sign.
> 
> The last impression we had is that they would do 39 first-run episodes per year, which will be shot over seven months, and air over nine months. The idea is to have an off-season in the summer, similar to the way Wrestling at the Chase in St. Louis was done during the 60s and 70s was done.
> 
> The people involved are looking at this, after one year of television, at becoming a wrestling franchise with the merchandising, perhaps recreating the Lucha Libre movie genre, and touring live events.
> 
> Another issue is that the contracts stipulated that the promotion would have to approve of all independent bookings. It also had a standard rate of pay with no raises built into the contracts, as well as a long non-compete period which offers no guarantee of pay during that period.
> 
> There was also a provision regarding publicity days, which the contracts don’t pay for.
> 
> Verdun reportedly redlined a lot of the contracts and sent them back to the company. Verbally he was told they would agree to those changes, but when the new contracts were sent back, 90 percent of the changes he redlined were rejected and of the ones that were accepted, many were changed again. The promotion is telling the talent that all the issues are being worked out and that they will all be able to do independent dates, just as they have been doing, but the new contracts still aren’t reflecting that. But a lot of those issues are minor.
> 
> We’re told the two key issues are the length of the contracts, the lack of downside guarantees on pay, as performers were all given contracts that listed pay per appearance with no guarantees on appearances, but still have the insistence as far as the contract on exclusivity. The per match pay would be less in some cases than these same talents made for independent bookings. In fact, some of the best known talent from the list got contract offers of $200 per match to start, with an increase to $500 per match if you become “a regular.” However, B-Boy and Ricky Reyes, who don’t have nearly the names of some of the others, who have signed, both signed for more than $200 per match. The feeling from talent is that the producers see the talent as not significant, and view it more as casting a television series using unknown actors and not offering good deals, and that the talent is completely replaceable.
> 
> For obvious reasons, nobody with options was going to sign a seven-year exclusive deal with no downside guarantee in the contract.
> 
> On 8/29, a number of the wrestlers offered contracts were told that it was now a “take it or leave it” situation and told they had a deadline of 9/2 to sign, or their roles would be re-cast. As of 9/1, we don’t know of anyone who had signed given that ultimatum, and rehearsals for the first tapings were supposed to start on 9/2, with publicity work and a photo shoot scheduled for the next day. On 9/2, a producer told a talent that hadn’t signed that there wasn’t such a deadline and that was only a rumor, but others noted there were emails fro m the legal department stating that specifically.
> 
> On 9/1, Verdun sent a list of changes that would have to be made from the latest contracts sent out on 8/29, before anyone would consider signing. As of last word, the reports were that contracts would make it clear to allow talent to work indie dates without getting approval, but that an El Rey taping date would always have to be first priority.
> 
> To me, I’ve always felt the biggest problem when it comes to Lucha Libre in the U.S. is the inability to accept what it is and nobody making an attempt to promote it to cater to its fan base, and instead try to change what it is and draw from outside its fan base.
> 
> The only viable Lucha Libre in the U.S. is to cater completely to the Hispanic audience with an authentic product, and hope the product itself is good enough and gets hot enough that you may get some fans out of the core demo interested. But that number will never be the key to the success.
> 
> The one time it was successful in the last 25 years was when you had a super hot product in Mexico, it had strong local television in Los Angeles airing the authentic product in good time slots, and had very good local promotion. The problem has always been that it can get off hot–the first major AAA show at the Los Angeles Sports Arena in 1993 drew 17,500 fans and turned away 8,000 at the door, at a time when nobody was doing business like that except for WrestleMania day. But while business remained good for a few years, it didn’t sustain and faded away, from a combination of AAA losing popularity and losing the local television.
> 
> Yes, there is a history of Mil Mascaras, Chavo Guerrero and his brothers including Eddy, Rey Mysterio, Jose Lothario and others as Mexican talent that was able to successfully headline when pushed to the top with existing and established promotions, but calling something Lucha Libre and using a cast filled with Americans and attempting to cater to that audience would be something that hasn’t worked in the past.
> 
> During the heyday of AAA in the U.S., in 1993 and 1994, you took the established hottest promotion in Mexico that was using its biggest shows and biggest matches on two and even three hour television shows weekly. Essentially, they were doing Nitro a few years before Nitro. They had a weekly soap opera, contemporary music, special effects years ahead of the U.S. Essentially, they were the trend-setters. But as far as breaking through into the U.S., they did great in Los Angeles and San Jose, not so good in San Diego or Oakland, and okay in Chicago and New York, but not great at all.
> 
> The television show was about presenting big matches with the top stars and building angles for big matches that would play out. The stars came across like superstars because we saw them with the big musical entrances and the catchy music performing before 5,000 to 15,000 fans, just like today’s Raw, except with a far better quality of music, more creative costuming and talent with a wider variety of unique characters. The style of wrestling with the high flying was new and innovative, and ahead of its time. But even then, the audience was almost exclusively Hispanics. An attempt to merge audiences, like doing a joint show with ECW talent in Chicago, didn’t draw hardly anyone but Mexican fans, and they only wanted to see the authentic product.
> 
> The amount of non-Hispanic interest, even at best, was tiny. When they did 17,500 fans in Los Angeles for La Revancha at the Sports Arena in 1993 (Konnan going for revenge against Jake Roberts and Cien Caras in a three-way, a show that turned away 8,000 at the door) in what may have been, to this day, the hottest wrestling show ever in the city, I doubt there were even 100 non-Hispanics in the crowd. This feels more like an attempt to take a storyline and a lot of Americans, have them feud with Mexicans and do a weekly TV shoot. Without the ability to make them larger-than-life (much harder now because of how the game has changed), and really, it not being WWE which has so many hours of TV, it’s going to be tough. But the base audience of Mexican-Americans, to me the best thing to do is present the authentic Lucha Libre product, on TV, from Mexico, with the weekly storylines building up the major shows. The idea would be to work at drawing fans from the Hispanic demo primarily, and make this “your wrestling.” The big difference today is to the Hispanic demo, “your wrestling,” is WWE. Will Del Rio and Mysterio be, to the Hispanic community, what Jeff Hardy, Hulk Hogan, Sting and Ric Flair, were to the wrestling fan community in 2010 in TNA?
> 
> I’ve always felt when you remove multiple week build-up and major shows from the equation, a key element of wrestling that makes it work is gone That’s the element that people who don’t really know wrestling don’t really understand.
> 
> The mentality here is that they are producing a television show, not a wrestling show, but to me, that’s arguing sports entertainment vs. wrestling. They are the same thing. You want a great television show with the soap opera like elements of pro wrestling that brings the audience back weekly. It’s a multi-pronged business that needs a variety of elements to sustain itself.
> 
> Konnan, the AAA booker, has an involvement in the project and his goal is to present a great in-ring product in conjunction with everything else. But he’s not the booker here, and it’s not being booked like a pro wrestling company. The head writer is Christopher DeJoseph, who had a long stint on the WWE writing team, and was also the performer Big Dick Johnson. There is a second writer who has no wrestling background that comes from the reality TV side, plus Matt Stollman and Chris Roach, who had worked in WWE creative in the past. But those close to the situation say DeJoseph is the only key player in production who has a clue about the business, and that the Burnett legal team has no clue.
> 
> It’s going to be something different, but what “different” is, is still unknown, and very little may leak out because of the NDA’s from the tapings. It probably won’t be until October until we get the gist of it. But unless it catches on to where people sample it in big numbers come October, it doesn’t matter if what it’s presenting is good or bad if there isn’t an audience watching to begin with.
> 
> In-ring, the idea is replicating PWG, with hot matches and fast and spectacular wrestling before a small enthusiastic crowd. But that’s at best, a tiny part of the equation. It’s good to have as part of the equation, but ROH has been around for a dozen years both with and without television, and it’s largely treaded water. PWG has a few hundred fans and some loyal DVD buyers, and survives, but 99% of the pro wrestling fan base has no idea it exists.
> 
> Now, you can’t beat WWE because the financials are so different. The audience is used to a certain level of major league production, so the barrier to entry as far as being major league wrestling, is far higher than it was in 1993. Plus, you have so few “wrestling” fans as opposed to WWE fans. Those fans can get more than their fill from WWE, and have the opinion they don’t need to watch anything else, because if anyone was a real star, they’d be in WWE. And that was very different from the mentality 20 years ago, particularly among Hispanics, where it was part of their culture and they had cultural heroes.


----------



## Lazyking

I'm not negative towards AAA; I just don't happen to watch them very often if at all. As a relative new lucha fan, I just found something I liked, and stuck with it. I am intrested in Del Rio in AAA though. 

I need to watch more lucha. Haven't watched alot of wrestling period besides RAW every week since I started my classic doctor who marathon.


----------



## amhlilhaus

Cavern a Rio has a hair match. He's going to look ridiculous with no hair


----------



## Chingo Bling

amhlilhaus said:


> Cavernario has a hair match. He's going to look ridiculous with no hair



He is not losing to that chump Rey Cometa. Especially now that he won the busca de un idolo tournament. Its a push for him to get a hair under his belt.


----------



## Concrete

There are some head scratching stuff on that 81st Anniversary to me. Granted there are also a couple of matches that could end up being solid MOTYC.


----------



## Flawless Victory

Does anyone know how we can watch Ring and Rock Staaars on Sunday? How does that work. Is it a ppv or streamed? I have no idea how to watch the show. Does AAA post it on their YouTube channel? Somebody help me out. I gotta support my guy :lol


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Flawless Victory said:


> Does anyone know how we can watch Ring and Rock Staaars on Sunday? How does that work. Is it a ppv or streamed? I have no idea how to watch the show. Does AAA post it on their YouTube channel? Somebody help me out. I gotta support my guy :lol



It should be posted on their YouTube channel, there is usually a 2-week to 3-week delay, from the time they tape and post up.

CMLL does stream live on terra . com.mx and will stream the 81 Anniversary show in its entirety. I have to say not all that great of a card outside the main event, but it is the biggest show and everybody puts on their best that night.











Candidate for spot of the year


----------



## Concrete

Lets not disrespect Cavernario vs Cometa. Good chance it rules.


----------



## Flawless Victory

I ♥ KEMONITO;39491666 said:


> It should be posted on their YouTube channel, there is usually a 2-week to 3-week delay, from the time they tape and post up.
> 
> CMLL does stream live on terra . com.mx and will stream the 81 Anniversary show in its entirety. I have to say not all that great of a card outside the main event, but it is the biggest show and everybody puts on their best that night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Candidate for spot of the year


Ok cool, thanx. Damn I was hoping one of the Spanish channels like Telemundo would be broadcasting it  I'm sure some "unofficial" video(s) will be posted of the event.


----------



## Chismo

I'm quite looking forward to the show, especially considering I actually bothered to watch CMLL on a somewhat regular basis since early spring (only to get interrupted by the G1), and I'm really into characters and feuds. Top 3 matches + Cachorro trio (notice how I mentioned him and not Blue Panther?) should deliver, my pick for MOTN, and maybe even legit MOTYC, is Cavernario/Cometa.

Cavernario is already the Top 15 material, world wide speaking.


----------



## USAUSA1

I have a feeling Atlantis will win.


----------



## Punkhead

I really hope Atlantis will win.


----------



## Rah

Who's got more upside? Rush is taking the other guy's mask, I'd assume.


----------



## Chismo

I wanna see Atlantis unmasked, than Rush/Ultimo next year, then Rush/Cavernario year after that, etc.

But word on the street is Atlantis is going to win.


----------



## USAUSA1

The reason why I say that is because UG has been winning a lot lately and against big opponents like Sombra,Rush,etc.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

USAUSA1 said:


> The reason why I say that is because UG has been winning a lot lately and against big opponents like Sombra,Rush,etc.


Aside from the obvious that Atlantis is a legend, this is a major telling point on who's winning. Last year there were rumors of UG joining AAA, because he didn't want to drop the mask. IDK if those were true or not. But not only did they plug in Sombra/Volador into the program a few weeks before the show, they also replaced the planned mask match. So that leads me to believe neither of them wanted to drop the mask in the first place. 

With CMLL, absolutely do not count out a draw finish. Would they leave money on the table? I'm not sure. Rush is good enough to work with anybody, but if he gets to be the one that takes Atlantis mask..forget about it. He will be an instant legend.


Don't get me wrong it should be a fantastic show, but its missing Sombra, Titan, Hechicero, Virus etc. , and that might mean stuff will get cut short to fit tv, but to leave off Sombra on the biggest show of the year. that's strange.


----------



## 777

Triplemania was all manner of fun once again this year. AAA excels at building towards big shows and making everything feel huge.


----------



## Flawless Victory

He's some footage of Alberto from Ring and Rock StAAArs 3 last night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyJ_qW9rU1s&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I'm going to try to watch the anniversary show live. If anybody needs help finding the page or link, let me know. Send me a message and I'll try to help. From what I know and how it was last year you just go to the terra site use this link http://deportes.terra.com.mx/ a banner should appear near the top of the page indicating the events being broadcasted live (en vivo) 

A clickable avatar of cmll show should appear minutes before the start of the event 20:30 or 8:30 PM (central) in the banner. Click it and it should take you to the stream page. Once there you should see a player streaming. There are 3 vid quality settings, fiddle around with those if you get hung up before refreshing the page. 

Show should last atleast 2 hours but could go over 3, given its magnitude.


AAA might be on to something with the way they shoot interviews for the Sin Limite show. They look and feel like a movie scene. I could see WWE copying them. Even if you don't understand spanish you should check one out, just because its so diffrent than what your used to seeing. 

Catch it on the video titled *AAA Sin Límite - Pachuca Parte 1 - Lucha Libre AAA *
at around the 16:15 mark


----------



## Rah

Caifan/Hechicero popped up on my Youtube dashboard this morning. Not sure how long this will last (it's an official video, but CMLL may get iffy with their guys being used on tape) so I downloaded it.






I'm sure most are familiar with Hechicero by now. He got the best out of all the rookies in the En Busca de Idolo tourney, and is genuinely one of the best wrestlers in the world, despite the lack of talent he's usually working with. You may not see a bigger Caifan fan than myself, but he always brings it when asked to. Good matwork capability and can brawl if the match goes south. Tag partners for the last 5 years, so these guys know each other, hold for hold. What that leaves us with is 30 minutes of Hechicero finally being able to unleash his full arsenal with a guy that can keep up with him. There is no way this will not be a MotYC - I am that damn sure of it.


----------



## USAUSA1

That match was awesome


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

sorted.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Its on go here now if you haven't. http://deportes.terra.com.mx/en-vivo/26907/


----------



## asdf0501

Aniversary show just started on Terra :mark:


----------



## almostfamous

Pretty good opening match there.


----------



## C-Cool

So that women's match wasn't too bad (very few botches, actually), and it had the right elimination order...

Until Zeuxis won, which was even better. Hard work pays off!


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Great womens cibernetico. I'd take that over 8 singles any day. I wonder at what point is that gal going to get fed up with the creepy cameraman.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

LOL Mr Niebla as fucking Kiss Gene Simmons.


----------



## C-Cool

Nice 6 man tag. They successfully booked Thunder exactly as he should: few moves, big presence.

Meanwhile, here's the show-stealer now. Cometa vs. Cavernario.


----------



## Vårmakos

Massive heat for Cometa. Holy fuck.


----------



## almostfamous

that splash from the top turnbuckle to the outside!


----------



## C-Cool

After this match, I'll be damned if Cavernario isn't a technico in the future.

That man is a star.


----------



## USAUSA1

Poor Rey


----------



## USAUSA1

Rush and Kanye would make an awesome team.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Now this should be a hot match bell to bell.


----------



## USAUSA1

They going all out


----------



## almostfamous

Great tag match. All the big matches have delivered so far. Hopefully the main event can top them.


----------



## Vårmakos

Shocked Sombra wasn't involved in any way.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Incredible match. All 4 guys delivered. This really underlines the fact that if you see 1 show all year, make it this one.


----------



## asdf0501

I don't think i can handle Atlantis losing his mask.


----------



## Vårmakos

o_o


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Put it back on!


----------



## almostfamous

Crowd was super into that.


----------



## C-Cool

Man... that whole event was something.

Also... now I know why _somebody's_ mask was so important to him. Eek.


----------



## asdf0501

That main event could be MOTY. 

Only problem was Ultimo hitting the superplexes on a row and Atlantis didn't sold it enough. But MAN, what a match


----------



## Mr. I

That was heavy.


----------



## pgi86

What an emotional main event. Damn good wrestling, crowd going crazy throughout the match, humongous pop for the finish, women in the crowd crying afterwards and fans throwing tons of money in the ring. You just don't see that kind of emotion for wrestling matches these days. Loved it! Overall, I thought this was a really fun show. Cavernario/Cometa was probably the best match, but Atlantis/Guerrero was the most memorable one. Also as a sidenote, the stream was perfect! Didn't freeze on me or disconnect even for a second. Kudos to Terra for that!


----------



## Punkhead

Damn, now I really want to see it. How and when can I see it.


----------



## Certified G

The Manowarrior said:


> Damn, now I really want to see it. How and when can I see it.


Ha, I'm wondering the same thing. Reading these comments got me all excited. It's not up on XWT (Lucha usually takes longer to get upped I noticed), so if anyone could point me in the right direction that'd be ace.

I can't wait to see the main event, I had been reading up on both guys lately. The Wrestling Observer Newsletter featured some excellent pieces on the match and on both guys, talking about their start and rise in the business etc.


----------



## pgi86

thecubsfan has started uploading the anniversary show matches here (all should be up soon): 

http://www.dailymotion.com/user/thecubsfan/1


----------



## Punkhead

The match was amazing. Probably Lucha Libre MOTY so far.


----------



## TigerDriver91

Amazing match and atmosphere! WOW!


----------



## USAUSA1

End of an era, classic match.


----------



## Punkhead

TigerDriver91 said:


> Amazing match and atmosphere! WOW!


Yeah, the atmosphere reminded me of Atlantis vs Villano III mask match.


----------



## USAUSA1

Atlantis never losing his mask.


----------



## kimino

Ultimo Guerrero lost a friends, a comrade that was with him for 1/4 of Century, the feelings of him of his fans and specially his family who know, how much it means a mask for a Luchador, a great match, and a great wrestler, Viva! Ultimo Guerrero De otro nivel!


----------



## Chismo

My reaction for main event and the aftermath:











Watched the opener, cabellera match and main event, obviously. Opener was good enough, three stars. Cabellera was FANTASTIC, CMLL's got themselves something truly special in Cavernario, dude's already the Top 10-15 material, world wide, if they don't fuck him up he might become a huge draw, the Mistico level. Rey Cometa impressed as well. *****1/2*

Main event was cinematic, incredible and immensely emotional, such a rollercoaster of feels, the whole aura of the match was bigger than life. Technically, the match WAS NOT perfect, but this is not gymnastics where you grade moves and execution, no, this is pro-wrestling - a complicated yet so simple art of performing and entertaining the crowds. *****3/4*


----------



## RKing85

not a huge lucha guy, but watched the main event of last night's show. You just never see that kind of crowd emotion anymore. Awesome stuff.


----------



## amhlilhaus

can't wait to see the main, I've only made it to the tag title. just wanted to give a shout out to cavernario. pro wrestling is about entertaining characters, and damnit if a cave man isn't entertaining. then throw in the fact he's decent in the ring and oh boy!! I'm there.

he has to stop the splash to the floor though, it's going to fuck him up big time.


----------



## Certified G

Chismo said:


> Main event was cinematic, incredible and immensely emotional, such a rollercoaster of feels, the whole aura of the match was bigger than life. Technically, the match WAS NOT perfect, but this is not gymnastics where you grade moves and execution, no, this is pro-wrestling - a complicated yet so simple art of performing and entertaining the crowds. *****3/4*


Just finished watching the main event and that's basically how I feel too. I don't watch Lucha all that regularly (mainly keep up with results and watch the big/hyped/acclaimed matches) but this match was truly something special. 

Just from watching the entrances you knew this was a huge match. The crowd gave the match an amazing and nearly unmatched atmosphere. I don't even remember the last time I saw a crowd this emotional. Everything from the entrances, to the match itself and the aftermatch was phenomenal.

This match was a piece of art, glad I took the time to sit down and watch it without reading the results.


----------



## Chismo

Perro/Myzteziz was an awesome fuckery brawl. I love how AAA goes all in when it comes to overbooking and advancing feuds, I appreciate it. The refs are not rigid, they're more like "oh you little rascals, behave already". So strange to see Mistico working the AAA style with brawling, weapons and lots of blood, he's doing just about fine. The left side of his face was completely exposed. Anyway, this was your classic rudo/tecnico match, totally old school role play, the brawling portions were smashing, and the second half was decent enough.

****


----------



## USAUSA1

Chismo said:


> Perro/Myzteziz was an awesome fuckery brawl. I love how AAA goes all in when it comes to overbooking and advancing feuds, I appreciate it. The refs are not rigid, they're more like "oh you little rascals, behave already". So strange to see Mistico working the AAA style with brawling, weapons and lots of blood, he's doing just about fine. The left side of his face was completely exposed. Anyway, this was your classic rudo/tecnico match, totally old school role play, the brawling portions were smashing, and the second half was decent enough.
> 
> ****


Hell yeah, I love the match. Perro is one disgusting dude, he was truly licking and playing in his blood.


----------



## Vårmakos

Perro Jr. is playing with heppy C.


----------



## Chismo

I really hope they book them in a mascara/cabellera match sometime next year, despite Patron seemingly being thrown in the mix.


----------



## Rah

*Rey Hechicero vs El Valiente (28/01/2008 WWA)* - Funny that I'm ready to deride Valiente as being obese and useless only for him to start doing some blistering topes out of nowhere. Still, his matwork and clunkiness really withheld the primera from growing and was an active part in it being rather bad. The piledriver-reversals (a la HBK/Taker) are always obnoxious spots to pull off, but they come off so much worse when the fluidity is lost (especially when they're building this up to Hechicero's typical arm drag out of nowhere).

Second fall on is all workrate, though, and Hechicero is one good workrate motherfucker. Valiente is known for his speed (and he's getting cockier/flashier now that he has one fall in the bag) but he gets caught by the younger Monterrey native and trapped within the best bow-and-arrow variation I have ever seen. It's crazy to think that I've seen a handful of Hechicero matches from 2008, 2010, 2011, 2013 and 2014 and each time he is adding an innovative variation or popping out a move I've never seen before. I love him.

Third fall is game time, however, as Valiente can no longer coast with the crowd favourite firing up and taking this match back. As overweight as he was here, Valiente sure moves as if he's back to being a youngster, again. Beautiful Valiente Special that would have been dive of the night if Hechicero never busted one out that rivals even the dive from Hechicero/Lucero.

This was a fun find in my quest to understand when Hechicero put all the pieces together. These two have a little exchange within a trios opener for a CMLL Monterrey show with Viruṡ running alongside Rey but, after the primera ends, this was everything you'd want from these two. *FUN/GOOD*


----------



## amhlilhaus

Atlantis v Guerrero got 5 stars. My boy cavernario got 4.


----------



## pgi86

In case anyone cares, Meltzer's CMLL anniversary ratings:

Blue Panther, Dragon Lee & Cachorro vs. Puma, Tiger & Felino: **1/2
Zeuxis vs. Dalys la Caribena vs. Estrellita vs. Goya Kong vs. La Amapola vs. Marcela vs. Princesa Sugehit vs. Tiffany: *3/4
Mascara Dorada, Valiente & Volador Jr. vs. Euforia, Mr. Niebla & Thunder: ***1/4
Barbaro Cavernario vs. Rey Cometa: ****1/4
***** Casas & Shocker vs. La Mascara & Rush: ***
Atlantis vs. Ultimo Guerrero: ****


----------



## Chismo

uttahere


----------



## USAUSA1

Stupid and why the guys didn't catch him?


----------



## Concrete

I just vomited in my mouth.


----------



## C-Cool

Skyman - Idiot Luchador of the Year.

That guy has been catching hell from people over that stunt.


----------



## Punkhead

Young luchadors wrestling in small independent promotions often go for such high spots trying to look extreme and brave, but most of the times end up looking stupid going to hospital or putting other people in hospital because of their carelessness.


----------



## Certified G

Here's a great piece from Dave Meltzer about CMLL's 81st Anniversary show. Write-ups like this is why I always love reading the WON, his stories are always very in-depth and touch on history and the significance of certain wrestlers, angles, and matches.

This contains spoilers, so if you haven't watched the match yet I suggest you not read this. 



Spoiler: CMLL 81st Anniversary






> In what in many ways was the single most historically significant moment at a wrestling show of the year, Atlantis defeated Ultimo Guerrero in their mask vs. mask match, drawing what was reported to be the largest gate ever for Lucha Libre. More than 17,000 fans, a standing room only crowd, paid in excess of $1 million, for CMLL’s 81st anniversary show at Arena Mexico in Mexico City. In doing so, CMLL has become only the second promotion ever to run in the North, South or Central America (WWE obviously being the other) to ever draw a $1 million gate. WCW fell short of that figure even for its biggest stadium shows in 1998.
> Reports were that the most expensive seats were filled with older and more affluent fans who came back for nostalgia purposes to see what is likely the end of an era. Atlantis’ mask is considered among the most valuable in history and he’s been a headliner for the promotion for more than 30 years. He headlined the biggest show of the year for the first time on September 23, 1984, when he sold the arena out, defeating Talisman in a mask vs. mask match. His mask was also at stake as the key drawing point on Anniversary shows in 1989, 1993, 2010 and 2013.
> 
> The gate record broke the previous mark of $900,000, set at the 80th anniversary show on September 13, 2013. While the final match was La Sombra vs. Volador Jr. in a mask vs. mask match, it was Atlantis and Ultimo Guerrero who drew the house. The entire year was built up toward their mask vs. mask match, but at the anniversary show, it was announced there would be a tag match where the rivals, Atlantis & Guerrero and Sombra & Volador Jr., would meet in a tag match, with the winners being put in the main event with the mask at stake. Everyone came to see Atlantis vs. Guerrero. And even though Sombra vs. Volador Jr., ended up being one of the most spectacular high flying matches you’ll ever see, the older crowd hated it, booing it and chanting “fraud,” because it was not what they came to see.
> Obviously the promotion knew it had one match that it could charge high ticket prices for and set a record with, so they worked out a way to get two gates in successive years out of it. This year, fans were told, over and over, that it was a singles match and somebody was losing their mask. There were more people in the building than last year, even though it was raining heavily the afternoon and evening of the show. Lots of the CMLL wrestlers who weren’t booked on the show, came anyway, because they wanted to see the main event.
> 
> Like last year, the impact of the match made it seem like, at least for one night, that CMLL was the hottest promotion in the world. But this was the end of the journey, not the beginning. Atlantis has been wrestling for the promotion consecutively since 1983. While ***** Casas is almost three years older and is still going strong, he was a star in the 80s for the rival UWA, and doesn’t have a mask. Due to that tenure, which has included ten times as a headliner on the promotions’s biggest show of the year (second in history behind El Santo, with 12 anniversary main events), his mask was the most valuable entity in the promotion. At this stage of the game, he is never going to have a rival like Guerrero, who he worked against for years, then teamed with from 2005 to 2011 as a heel. When Atlantis did his inevitable turn back, it was to culminate in a mask vs. mask match that had been built up for three years.
> 
> Jose Gutierrez Hernandez, his rival, started wrestling in 1990, and became Ultimo Guerrero in 1996. He was supposed to lose his mask in 1997 while wrestling for the Promo Azteca promotion, but quit the promotion before his big match to join CMLL. Ultimo Guerrero & Rey Bucanero became the promotion’s top tag team for years, and are generally considered as one of the four greatest tag teams in Lucha Libre history, along with Rene Guajardo & Karloff Lagarde, El Santo & Gori Guerrero (the father of Eddy Guerrero) and Angel Blanco & Dr. Wagner. The match more than served its purpose, which was one of those larger-than-life moments that wrestling rarely has but everyone in the building is well aware they are part of it. Before the first match, when the lineup was being announced, fans went crazy when the main event was announced.
> 
> The post-match, after Atlantis got the third fall submission with his Atlantida, better known as the torture rack or the Argentinean backbreaker, was the most emotional and most gripping moment in wrestling in years.
> Guerrero removed his mask, while the camera would shift to his family at ringside, crying rivers, and they weren’t the only ones. He announced his name, said he was 42 years old, from Gomez Palacio in the state of Durango and had been wrestling for 26 years. His face, exposed for the first time, was covered in tears, which led to tears from most of the female fans, and some of the male fans in the crowd. Guerrero handed Atlantis his mask. Atlantis on the mic said that he defeated a great warrior, and of all his career victories, he would keep this mask in a special place. Guerrero’s father came into the ring to hug him.
> The closest thing to this scene would have been Undertaker losing to Brock Lesnar. That was more of a shock. Everyone expected Undertaker to win. Here, fans didn’t know, and were split in expectations, with the older fans generally thinking Atlantis would win, since he always has in the big matches, while younger fans expected Guerrero to win, figuring he’s younger, has more in the tank for the future, and Atlantis, a week before his 52nd birthday, had to be on the way out. That was more of a shock, but this was more emotional. As far as the post-match went, with the fans crying and the families of both men being shown, this felt much bigger, although it felt no bigger than in 2000, when Atlantis unmasked Villano III. That was the most recent match that would be a good comparison for this one.
> 
> The ring was showered with people throwing in money at the end. Even 30 minutes after the match had ended, there were still fans lined up to hand money to the wrestlers. Given the gate, the belief is that Guerrero would have received the largest one day payoff in the history of Lucha Libre.
> The show got heavy mainstream media coverage in Mexico. It was not the lead story for the night in the sports newspapers, but it did make some covers. The media coverage was very respectful, stating that Lucha Libre may be a spectacle, but for one night, it was very serious sport.
> 
> But the feud must continue. Two nights later, at Arena Coliseo, which drew an above usual Sunday crowd of 3,300, at higher than usual ticket prices since it was the first show Guerrero would wrestle without his mask, Atlantis & Valiente & Volador Jr. headlined against Guerrero & Rey Escorpion & Mephisto. Guerrero tore up an Atlantis mask a fan was wearing at ringside. In the third fall, Guerrero gave Atlantis a low blow and pulled his mask off for a disqualification. Volador Jr. went to a fan at ringside to get an Atlantis mask so he could hide his identity, but Guerrero destroyed that mask. The faces got Atlantis another match, to protect his identity. Guerrero, left, furious that he couldn’t expose his rivals’ face. Still, the crowd was super behind Guerrero because of the sympathy of the unmasking and there was a vibe from the crowd that they would rather see them team than continue to feud. The only thing left in the feud would be Guerrero putting up his hair against Atlantis’ mask, which would be a story, but also anti-climactic.
> 
> The atmosphere was going to make this a good show under any circumstances. They used the big house to showcase stars of the future, most notably Felino’s sons Puma and Tiger, Blue Panther’s son Cachorro, and Rey Cometa and Cavernario Barbaro, who had a great hair vs. hair match. They also tried to get Thunder, a giant bodybuilder who is somewhat similar to a younger Kane, over as a new monster.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Dave's review of the Guerrero/Atlantis match
> 
> 
> 
> 6. Atlantis beat Ultimo Guerrero in 21:08 in the mask vs. mask match.
> A) Big entrances with a bunch of dancers. First fall saw Atlantis do two quebradoras (spinning backbreakers). After a series of reversals, Atlantis went for a submission and Guerrero cradled him for the pin in 3:04.
> B) Atlantis used a short power bomb into El Pulpo, a leg and head submission that is Guerrero’s usual finisher in 1:32.
> C) Third fall was the big one with the dramatic near falls one after the other. Guerrero missed a charge and went over the top, and Atlantis hit a tope. Atlantis came off the top rope into a dropkick by Guerrero. They continued slow deliberate near falls and submissions and got super heat. Guerrero finally hit his reverse superplex finisher but Atlantis kicked out. Atlantis went for the torture rack but Guerrero got out and reversed into a cradle for a near fall. Big reaction for that kick out. Guerrero used a headstand bronco buster. Atlantis did a big plancha off the top to the floor. Atlantis did a crossbody off the top but Guerrero rolled through for a near fall. Atlantis tried a huracanrana off the top, but Guerrero blocked it and power bombed him into the ring. Atlantis came back with the torture rack again, but Guerrero escaped. Atlantis used an armdrag off the top rope. Atlantis finally got the torture rack, and dropped to his knees, I guess to make it more effective, and Guerrero submitted in 13:17 of the fall. Match was excellent on its own, like ****, and throwing in the post-match it’s easily a ****½ presentation.


----------



## Chismo

WCW had a 1 mil. + live gate for their Atlanta Dome show, tho.


----------



## Chismo

Look at two matches on the left...


----------



## USAUSA1

Chismo said:


> WCW had a 1 mil. + live gate for their Atlanta Dome show, tho.


Nope, I think they were at $950,000.


----------



## Rah




----------



## Chismo

Hechicero/Caifan was good, but not great, and when I watch a 32 min long Hechicero match from a Monterrey indie, I expect legit MOTYCness, therefore I'm disappointed. This match lacked the famous flow and pacing of Hechicero, it wasn't all that dynamic, which means those 32 minutes really felt like - 32 minutes. That being said, this is still a Hechicero match, so of course it had its fair share of brilliance, enough to showcase his BITW nomination. Caifan seems like a good fella, hopefully he signs with CMLL one day, because I'm sure these two would make it glorious over there.

***3/4


----------



## pgi86

Chismo said:


> WCW had a 1 mil. + live gate for their Atlanta Dome show, tho.





USAUSA1 said:


> Nope, I think they were at $950,000.


The biggest gate in WCW history was for the finger poke of doom show in Atlanta ($930,735), followed closely by a 12/21/98 Nitro in St. Louis ($914,389) and Goldberg winning the title in Atlanta ($906,260). There was a 12/07/98 Nitro in Houston that likely did over $900,000 as well (don't have a number for it, but it was the third best attended show in WCW history). Long story short: Goldberg was a huge, huge draw for a while there (he was the headline attraction for all these shows). 

These are the numbers according to Meltzer, anyway.


----------



## Chismo

Strange, I was sure the gate was one million considering the number of fans they drew.


----------



## USAUSA1

Probably a lot of cheap tickets and WCW was famous for giving away free tickets. I highly doubt there was a free ticket outside family members were given out at the CMLL show.


----------



## prepasur

I dont know if this was just posted yet

youtube.com/watch?v=uQn8WXymIVo


----------



## Flawless Victory

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAdlgeVuz4M

Here's a video of Alberto's match from.Sunday night.


----------



## USAUSA1

Last weekend episode of AAA tv was a fun show. The ending angle was unexpected but expected.
Fantasma vs. Aerostar for the Cruiser title
Bengala/Blue Demon/Fenix vs. Pentagon Jr/Villano IV/Steve Pain
Evans and Angelico vs. Chessman and Averno
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucjOgp1ZArs&list=UUMA4MOXJ3L5K9jKEDyFX6LQ


----------



## pgi86

Los Ingobernables rocking an awesome look for their entrance the other day:


----------



## amhlilhaus

pgi86 said:


> Los Ingobernables rocking an awesome look for their entrance the other day:


those guys rule


----------



## USAUSA1

Matt Farmer is the greatest . Separated in parts.

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2014/10/28/the-importance-of-lucha-libre-in-september-part-two/


----------



## xsw

LA Park showed up at Arena Mexico 

Great news, althoug it might be sad, since he's probably losing his mask, likely sooner than expected since his health issues seems to be pretty serious.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Big story from yesterday's CMLL friday show, the return of LA Park









I heard wrestlers hyping up a groundbreaking moment that will change the company for the past week. I know not to believe these interviews. Then this happens. What makes it interesting is that LA Park could be in his final years as a performer due to a serious intestinal problem he recently had.


----------



## USAUSA1

Wonder how many matches he have left in him? Odd that a Pena gimmick would end in Arena Mexico.


----------



## xsw

USAUSA1 said:


> Wonder how many matches he have left in him? Odd that a Pena gimmick would end in Arena Mexico.


None? Wouldn't be surprised if his mask match ends being a Mascara Año 2000 vs Anibal kinda deal, guess they'll rather put a cage match by December  CMLL would be wanting to claim his mask as soon as possible, if he makes a full recovery, he might just walk out on them. :faint:


----------



## xsw

Cubsfan mentioned a lucha tourney in Univison, forgot about that, weird that I can get Unimas but not Univison (I live about a mile away from the border, maybe moving the antenna or somethin)

deportes univision com /republica-deportiva/videos/

and cant watch them there either because it does not work in Mexico (maybe anywhere elese it does)


----------



## Muraco Morales

Is AAA on Directv anymore?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Muraco Morales said:


> Is AAA on Directv anymore?


No don't think so. You must watch on youtube or Televisa deportes network, that you may get if you live near the border.


Anybody that wants to check out some 90's lucha check out this YT channel youtube.com/user/dataintcash/videos he's been uploading some new stuff.


----------



## USAUSA1

I thought this year Copa Antonio Pena match was entertaining. However, that cruiserweight ladder match didn't do it for me.


----------



## Vårmakos

I see they're still using those cheap, flimsy ladders from last year.


----------



## USAUSA1

Rush got hurt on a non CMLL show and is out for two months. Two fractured bones in his leg. Luckily, this time of year is usually a dead period.


----------



## amhlilhaus

USAUSA1 said:


> Rush got hurt on a non CMLL show and is out for two months. Two fractured bones in his leg. Luckily, this time of year is usually a dead period.


he won't be on any more non cmll shows, anytime soon.


----------



## Rah

They've teamed up a few times, but I believe this is the first singles encounter between Navarro and Virus.







Mexico's in a strange spot atm. 2014's been a very weak year across the board, yet we're getting new dream matches on a bi-monthly cycle. Last month it was Black Terry vs Hechicero, this month it's Navarro/Virus, and I'm surprised these two have never run by each other before as they're an obvious match. I enjoyed their story of Navarro being the wiser of the two, and always having Virus' number. Loved Navarro taking a moment to tease Virus and pander to the crowd as if it was all in the bag. All he did was a simple knee jump and he acted as if it was the best thing anyone's going to see that day. He's, like, the greatest ever, right? With 20 minutes on the clock I'd have liked to have seen more change of pace or frustration from Virus. Virus is a lot tighter than Solar yet this was more Solar/Navarro than what's more up Panther/Navarro or Terry/Navarro's alley. Not much asking for potato shots within their holds, Navarro's probably still ringing from the ones Hechicero gave him, but this didn't quite reach my expectation of what these guys would do with each other. A few blown holds aside (surprisingly more upon Virus than *****), it was a good exhibition affair but not particularly one that you wouldn't see before. Fuck the Copa Laguna, give these guys a title match under Virus' formula and they'll probably have the match of the decade. Someone make it happen!


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Translation of this La Park interview after his match, tagging with his nephew Volador jr., beating Atlantis and Extreme Tiger in what was said to be a sub-par performance.

Interviewer: Things seemed to get hot with Atlantis?
LA Park: Things are going to get hotter. I see that groups are forming in CMLL. I want to make my own group to take them on. I'm going to be in it with Volador jr., Super Parka, and my son. To take on those other groups. This group will be in CMLL very soon.

La Park is just working his own angle is what it sounds like. Its an angle people will want to see, and I really don't think its going to happen. There is always that glimmer of hope that it could happen. This ALL-ELITE show had talent that is connected to AAA and CMLL and TNA in the same ring, it must mean that things are begining to change at Arena Mexico.

You will notice that guys in CMLL are being allowed independent dates more liberally than before. They must be getting desperate.


----------



## Rah

Anyone else feel a bit let down by the name changes to Panther's kids? Cachorro was a decent enough name and homage to Blue Panther's routes, yet The Panther doesn't quite have that same ring to it. I know it will grow on me but seeing Black Panther get the Jr. name spot is a bit grating, considering Cachorro is infinitely better than him in any facet.



I ♥ KEMONITO;42014850 said:


> Translation of this La Park interview after his match, tagging with his nephew Volador jr., beating Atlantis and Extreme Tiger in what was said to be a sub-par performance.
> 
> Interviewer: Things seemed to get hot with Atlantis?
> LA Park: Things are going to get hotter. I see that groups are forming in CMLL. I want to make my own group to take them on. I'm going to be in it with Volador jr., Super Parka, and my son. To take on those other groups. This group will be in CMLL very soon.
> 
> La Park is just working his own angle is what it sounds like. Its an angle people will want to see, and I really don't think its going to happen. There is always that glimmer of hope that it could happen. This ALL-ELITE show had talent that is connected to AAA and CMLL and TNA in the same ring, it must mean that things are begining to change at Arena Mexico.
> 
> You will notice that guys in CMLL are being allowed independent dates more liberally than before. They must be getting desperate.


A dinastia styled stable would be nice to witness in CMLL. Volador Jr working with his dad will finally give him a direction that isn't Sombra/Vola match #3895, at the very least. I'd agree that it's probably a promotional stunt for ALL-ELITE but fingers are always crossed.


----------



## xsw

> Translation of this La Park interview after his match, tagging with his nephew Volador jr., beating Atlantis and Extreme Tiger in what was said to be a sub-par performance.
> 
> Interviewer: Things seemed to get hot with Atlantis?
> LA Park: Things are going to get hotter. I see that groups are forming in CMLL. I want to make my own group to take them on. I'm going to be in it with Volador jr., Super Parka, and my son. To take on those other groups. This group will be in CMLL very soon.


It looks LA Park needs much more time to rest to recover some of his shape... Hijo de LA Park has never been good, Super Parka is also in no shape, doubt even All Elite would be interested in those 2, much less CMLL, so the group ain't happening. CMLL looks really bad with Park taking advantage from them with self promoting while bashing CMLL talent who won't never go on to face him. In another interview he was calling out Sombra but it made Volador Jr look like a crybaby who needs an old guy to fight his battles... fpalm

Wonder if All Elite or LA Park himself could rent Arena Mexico to do a mask match for him to get a big check without CMLL taking any risk... :shocked:


----------



## Concrete

I am terrible at following things in lucha. They changed Cachorro's name to The Panther? They gave Black Panther Blue Panther Jr.? WHAT?! Like why The Panther? You'd imagine you wouldn't want all three of them called Panther or a Blue variety. Is he keeping the Panther name going in the weirdest of ways?


----------



## Rah

Here's their new looks, just for those curious


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Concrete said:


> I am terrible at following things in lucha. They changed Cachorro's name to The Panther? They gave Black Panther Blue Panther Jr.? WHAT?! Like why The Panther? You'd imagine you wouldn't want all three of them called Panther or a Blue variety. Is he keeping the Panther name going in the weirdest of ways?


Cachorro translates to baby cub. He must have hated being called a baby. The other is what you thought it is. I wonder if they are going to use "The" instead of "El" from now on.


----------



## Rah

I guess they were just names given at their debuts to test the waters. It's not unusual, I guess. What is the Spanish equivalent for The Panther, anyway? La Pantera is feminine, of course, but it's the only direct translation I know of.


----------



## Concrete

I could live with Cachorro being the White Ranger of panthers.


----------



## xsw

> I guess they were just names given at their debuts to test the waters. It's not unusual, I guess. What is the Spanish equivalent for The Panther, anyway? La Pantera is feminine, of course, but it's the only direct translation I know of.


They could use "EL Pantera" but the name is already used (he even lost his mask in CMLL years ago, and was not the first guy to use the name). Besides that, there's a comic book with that name from the 70s that had a tv show a few years ago. Unimas is airing that show on weekdays, so it probably is not that easy to use it.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Just made this


----------



## USAUSA1

Tonight aaa taping will air live on http://internetvluchalibreaaa.com/ for free. Adr vs Texano in streetfight.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Marco Corleone, Último Guerrero, Volador Jr., Terrible, Shocker, Bárbaro Cavernario, Rey Bucanero, Máximo, Felino, Blue Panther Will all be apart of a Cage match for the hairs this friday for CMLL

Not much to it. I'm thinking Cavernario shaves Blue Panther.


----------



## Rah

Is there even a single storyline in that cage match, outside of Felino/Panther? The undercard's a joke, but I cannot be the only one who doesn't want a rocket strapped to Cavernario, surely?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Not really, because its not uncommon at all for a guy to throw out a hair challenge after a match, and it ends up being nothing. You have to follow CMLL very closely to keep track of all these petty fueds. 

From what I know of within the last 2 weeks there's been challenges issued between: Cavernario/Panther, Maximo/Felino, Marco/Terrible, Bucanero/Panther. I am not too keen on Cavernario being ascended so quickly either, because the Arena Mexico fans may end up rejecting him like Sombra and the unknown of where he is going on from here. Maximo? (I can see that)

Without Rush the cage match lost an important dynamic. CMLL has been going with a UG/Rush program. Which was picking up untill his injury. So my favorite to lose is Panther with Volador jr being a good possibility aswell.


----------



## xsw

USAUSA1 said:


> Tonight aaa taping will air live on http://internetvluchalibreaaa.com/ for free. Adr vs Texano in streetfight.


The show was availble for a few days (maybe still is up but one needs to signup) and was pretty good, although felt a bit "dry" without the skits AAA puts into their tv shows, guess they got this at the last second and probably thinking about having next weeks show as an iPPV.

Guess they'll also aiming for a AAANetwork , since the guys providing the feed do run Mexican Baseball and Basketball seasons, they might be able to pull it off (and finance it?) so they would have to hold weekly or biweekly shows, finally competing with CMLLs Terra's show...:dance2


----------



## amhlilhaus

I ♥ KEMONITO;42566314 said:


> Not really, because its not uncommon at all for a guy to throw out a hair challenge after a match, and it ends up being nothing. You have to follow CMLL very closely to keep track of all these petty fueds.
> 
> From what I know of within the last 2 weeks there's been challenges issued between: Cavernario/Panther, Maximo/Felino, Marco/Terrible, Bucanero/Panther. I am not too keen on Cavernario being ascended so quickly either, because the Arena Mexico fans may end up rejecting him like Sombra and the unknown of where he is going on from here. Maximo? (I can see that)
> 
> Without Rush the cage match lost an important dynamic. CMLL has been going with a UG/Rush program. Which was picking up untill his injury. So my favorite to lose is Panther with Volador jr being a good possibility aswell.


the fans rejected sombra? why he's really good


----------



## WCW Remembered

Is it wrong that I've started skipping Raw and started watching Lucha Underground religiously?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

amhlilhaus said:


> the fans rejected sombra? why he's really good


Not all the fans. Mainly the arena mex crowd, who infamously cheer the rudos over the babyfaces. Being that arena is their flagship show the reactions he gets have spread out to the other 2 arenas he appears at. Even more now that he's part of a rudo group with Rush and La Mascara. 

Fans turned on him after taking Volador jr mask. There are "smart/notsosmart" fans there aswell, and they think they know more than their letting on. Which leads them to believe that CMLL are pushing this guy down out throats, or he's being handed everything. So what the "smart/notsosmart" fans think tends to spread like wild fire, as you know, and thats where the dislike for Sombra stems from.


As a side note for AAA - I just noticed the other day that the storylines they are doing are being based off the cartels in Mexico. With the groups, alliances, and how they interact. Its got Konnan's fingerprints all over it.


----------



## Rah

So, IWRG had an anniversary show. It was pointless.




> ****52nd Anniversary of Lucha Libre in Estado de Mexico****
> *1) Metaleón b Araña de Plata*
> [did not air]
> *2) Leo, Mike, Rafy, Teelo b Apolo Estrada Jr., Avisman, Liderk, Rayan*
> *3) Chicano, Trauma I, Trauma II b Dr. Cerebro, Emperador Azteca, ***** Navarro*
> The Traumas went after their father their whole match and more after the match. Black Terry tried to calm them down and the Traumas attacked him too.
> [video issues - once again the best match on card is not available )
> *4) Canis Lupus & Eterno b Danny Casas & Oficial 911 [super libre]*
> Everyone bled. Danny Casas turned on 911 after mishaps earlier in the match.
> *5) Cien Caras Jr., Hijo de Máscara Año 2000, Máscara Año 2000 b Hijo De Dos Caras, Rayo de Jalisco Jr., Súper Nova*
> Rayo/Mascara Sr. challenges, as usual.
> *6) Toscano b Veneno [hair]*
> Mascara Ano 2000 and Rafy were seconds – except Rayo de Jalisco replaced Rafy at the last second. Veneno bled a lot. In the last fall, Mascara attacked Toscano and Veneno covered him for an apparent three count, but Rayo alerted the referee to the cheating. Veneno argued the decision and Toscano cradled him for the win. Toscano took 2/3.
> 
> Source & Links: Cubsfan


Youtube Playlist

EDIT: I added Navarro's match to the playlist


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Someone has uploaded a low quality version of the not so great Superfly vs Aerostar mask match. Check it out now or wait for it to show up on the YT channel. A fitting end to this rivalry, but I have no idea why the cornermen were who they were.


----------



## Rah

Managed to catch the first two falls of the Dragon Lee vs Virus title match before my internet died. They're a little short, but Lee looked good and wasn't as unmatched on the mat as he was in their lightning match. Of course the tercera should be where the meat is found, as that plays to both's strengths, but so far the match is living up to expectation.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I just saw it right now, Dragon Lee delivered on his end. Virus the master, working the holds, getting the most out of them. They didn't get too complex with it. I've noticed people comparing it to the one with Titan, that one had better and bigger spots than this one. It was more spectacular. 

Still a really good match worth checking out.


----------



## USAUSA1

On MLW radio VIP, Konnan confirm reports that AAA will be taping tv from a main location in Mexico City. It was a request from Televisa because they felt the show was outdated. I guess the big shows will still be in Arena's but this is going to be an interesting change. If the shows become more like Lucha Underground production quality(Televisa has more money than El Rey and Univision), I could see the product expanding worldwide maybe even taking over Lucha Underground.


----------



## amhlilhaus

USAUSA1 said:


> On MLW radio VIP, Konnan confirm reports that AAA will be taping tv from a main location in Mexico City. It was a request from Televisa because they felt the show was outdated. I guess the big shows will still be in Arena's but this is going to be an interesting change. If the shows become more like Lucha Underground production quality(Televisa has more money than El Rey and Univision), I could see the product expanding worldwide maybe even taking over Lucha Underground.



interesting, AAA is poised for a big year.


----------



## xsw

USAUSA1 said:


> On MLW radio VIP, Konnan confirm reports that AAA will be taping tv from a main location in Mexico City. It was a request from Televisa because they felt the show was outdated. I guess the big shows will still be in Arena's but this is going to be an interesting change. If the shows become more like Lucha Underground production quality(Televisa has more money than El Rey and Univision), I could see the product expanding worldwide maybe even taking over Lucha Underground.


Konnan is usually full of BS, so who knows... Televisa has been out of the lucha product for years and they will air whatever they are paid to air (AAA, WWE, UFC), those unable or unwilling to put up the cash, are left out (CMLL, Mexican Baseball, Mx Basketball). Galavision (the channel that has AAA's show) has in its rotation old Televisa sitcoms from the 70s, those were outdated since they were first produced, and old Mexican movies (even older than the 70s) so I doubt they'd care about AAA beign "outdated". Unless AAA went to consult Canal 5, who's the one that target the upbeat "coveted" (but not in Mexico) 18-49 male demo. 

If they move to Canal 5, it could be a step up if they get a solid time slot and are not bumped around by whatever, if they get a weeknight(s) show, might be interesting. OTOH, a weeknight show would be butchered by novelas. They could air LU in canal 5 (assuming they were smart enough to keep the rights for Mx in their deal), although it's not the right product (aiming a specific segment instead of familes, SoCal indy style instead lucha, some silly stuff like "Aztec tribes" which wouldn't fly over here, just like it make it a though sell in UniMas)

There shouldn't be a reason for AAA not to have 2 shows in Televisa, the current "Family oriented" or "Traditional" show, and another one aimed to a younger crowd (an equivalent to LU). We'll see. Some 20 years ago, when Televisa pulled out of promoting and sold AAA to Peña, they told him to stop touring and just held tapings in Mexico City, Peña knew it would kill AAA and got his way keeping things as they were, maybe the Roldans have figured it out or the market has changed enough in 2 decades, but it seems kinda risky.imo. And again, why not have 2 shows, make it harder for CMLL to make it back (although they'll never accept to pay Televisa for a timeslot, anyways) 

:surprise:


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

xsw said:


> why not have 2 shows, make it harder for CMLL to make it back (although they'll never accept to pay Televisa for a timeslot, anyways)


I think he meant just taping Sin Limite the way Underground is produced, not an additional show for Televisa. For those that don't know, Televisa is the biggest spanish speaking media group and pretty much run things hand in hand with other "influences" in Mexico. I don't know how things work with the station and tv contracts. But if Televisa is potentially backing them to produce these shows, it could be a really deal, and I certainly expect it to be available on American tv.

They would still tour, but shoot TVs at the central location thats it. 

You know whats bullshit?, all these indy shows pumping out awesome matches and no way to see them but live and in person. Thats bullshit. Indys like ChilangaMask and CaraLucha are putting on killer shows. Heres a recap of Los Traumas vs Los Texanos below.


----------



## Rah

Quite a bit is taped by Black Terry Jr, if you're interested in paying for it. Full HD, too. Here's his Youtube channel, for highlights. But I agree. The last two years have seen some fantastic matches happen and we cannot watch! I wonder what Lucha TV does with the videos?

Hechicero vs Black Terry x2
Hechicero/Black Terry vs ***** Navarro/Trauma 2
Hechicero vs Navarro

Dream matches for me and I cannot view them as I don't have a credit card or ability to access Paypal. This guy goes to a lot of the shows, but not everything we'd want. Still, he gave us quite a bit of Navarro and Hechicero/Trauma II was as good as it sounds.


----------



## Rah

Had some match reviews I did sometime in December that I forgot to post

*Blue Panther, Blue Panther Jr., The Panther vs Misterioso Jr., Puma, Tiger (06/12/2014 CMLL)* - The Dinastias Panther y Casas feud rolls on, and has been one of the most fun things in wrestling. Of course CMLL books counterintuitive and has Felino lose his hair to Bucanero in the cage, however. Not sure if the Casas family are just hated backstage or Alonso is just so out of touch with his own product at this point.

Match wasn't getting where it tried to reach for, but the quality did dip quite a bit whenever Panther Jr or Misterioso were in the ring. One's new to the business and forgiveable, the other is just cashing in on paycheques here. To the complete opposite of Panther's spirited performance fighting off the horde, Misterioso played the uncaring chubby with an uninspired slap or two to complete his offence. No selling, just lazing around waiting for the next choreographed spot to take place. No matter how hard Panther worked his arse off, he wasn't saving this. I honestly wish they never went for the forced mask-ripping tease within the third fall, too. These guys hate each other, but the work building toward and surrounding the spot didn't give it a good enough pay off. Instead it came off as a spot lost in the sea that you'd forget the moment the match ends.

All three decisions for the tecnicos came from two pins and a submission victory by Panther Jr. If they're pushing this guy over Cachorro, I give up.


*Felino vs Rey Bucanero (06/12/2014 CMLL)* - utter shite


*Rey Hechicero vs Caifan 1 (13/02/2009 LMLL)* - Hot damn the opening matwork is a mess. Think of what these two did last year, now imagine those same spots flubbed one after the other. Whether it's not interlocking properly or Hechicero not stretching back far enough into Caifan's abdominal stretch/surfboard routine, both men are delivering a subpar performance to start. Even the headstand slap exchange I loved from Thathcer/Sabre is being used here as a moment to visibly call spots inbetween the weak slaps. 20 minutes more to go, fuck.

Early into the second part, the capper's PC gives a loud Windows Fatal Error noise mid-spot and it's probably the most fitting summary of their initial matwork.

Abandoning the mat for more fast-paced work plays into Hechicero's favour, as he still has a bunch of spots to throw out to spice it all up. It's an interesting study to see him deliver these moves almost in the wrong order but the pacing here is horrible, to begin with. There's a lot of sequences that flow back and forth too easily. A Gory Bomb should not be used as a transitionary move that both guys pop back up from, for instance. Nor should Caifan, who comes into this with a rib injury, be shrugging off a Gory Especial with a counter into his own Pendulum submission. 

Hechicero looked a lot better working the CMLL guys in 2008. Though I think that may more be down to having an opponent both more talented and unwilling to give you too much. Everything he put out in 2014 was here, just never in the right order or milked to in the slightest. Somewhere in the next couple years he put those pieces together. When I'm not too sure, and I hope to find out, but I am glad these two long standing rivals, team mates and friends got to cap off their intertwined rivalries with a strong MotYC five years after their first encounter.


----------



## USAUSA1

Old but cool


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Nice article of first-hand accounts on ***** Casas by Steve Sims


----------



## Rah

@I ♥ KEMONITO, did you get the video I sent?


****** Casas vs Maximo (11/01/2015 CMLL)* - If there was a best wrestler of the new year, Casas most certainly has it locked for the decade. Helluva dirtbag performance from the birthday boy, here. Between the gloating push-ups, mocking walk and using the doctor's medical spray and his wrist-tape to his advantage, there's certainly a lot to this match that should excite any wrestling fan. It all comes apart thanks to Maximo, however, in throwing away the foundational legwork. He milked the inevitable dragon-screw at the start of the segunda pretty well, but there wasn't anything else I'd point to as a positive to what he brought here.

Bullet topes may look nice, but it's delivered by someone who is struggling to walk. I've got nothing against a wrestler making use of a desperation dive, but coming off a setup headscissors and frantic sprint it felt too phony. Shake the leg after the headscissor and as you're about to run for the dive or grab your knee in pain afterward, at least, for fuck's sake. If there was more emphasis on Maximo becoming frustrated and punishing Casas with some vicious punches or strikes, things would have gone better. Moreso if his beso wasn't used as a legitimate two-count, too. There's a place for comedy wrestling, but not in-between a match that is taking itself seriously. Like father like son, though.


----------



## Corey

I was searching through my Comcast channel listings to see if I had any of the new wrestling that's on TV here in the U.S. (which I don't have any of it of course), and I came across something called 'Lucha Libre'. It's on a channel called LAS (Channel 587) and airs from 10:30-12:30 on Thursday nights. Does anyone know what this is? I tried to do some research but didn't come up with much. It's definitely a Spanish channel and not Lucha Undeground.


----------



## Rah

The only lucha I know that airs via LAS is IWRG, but that's at 11pm on Sundays, IIRC. I'd only be able to tell for certain is if I see a picture of the show. If you want a definitive answer you could tweet or email Cubsfan, he'll know. 

Twitter: [at]Luchablog
Email: [email protected]


----------



## Tanner1495

Hey guys, I don't really check here too often, but I wrote about one of the trip matches from CMLL that surfaced last week (Dragon Lee included!) and thought you guys may be interested in checking it out. If so, check it out *here!*


----------



## eldoon

That lucha underground Aztec warfare match was very good

I dont think the rumble will top it


----------



## Tanner1495

Hey guys, I reviewed both Casas/Dorada and Casas/Maximo from this year on the blog, so check it out *here*!


----------



## kimino

Old School Puro vs Lucha


----------



## USAUSA1

kimino said:


> Old School Puro vs Lucha
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXjB_PFQrNw


Awesome


----------



## kimino

USAUSA1 said:


> Awesome


This forum reminded me of a lot of good matches, damn if you talk about lucha classics you're talking about CMLL, went to Atlantis vs Villano III match when i was young, the best of the best, Mexican crowd are the best, almost no casuals, from kids, to old womans, everyone was into this match. It helps a lot that CMLL main events are in certain arenas like Arena Coliseo or Arena Mexico. The crowd is always insane for important matches.

Thats a ring announcer. "None in the Villano dinasty has lost his mask, the favorite to win Villano III", not just saying introductions, but setting the emotions in the crowd. Also Dr. Morales saying that Villano unmasked a young Chris Benoit (Pegasus Kid at the time). Also Ray Mendoza (villano dinasty father) unmasking his son, that in the aftermatch interview, showed that rudo/heel or tecnico/face, a man's word and the pact before a match are sacred.


----------



## Corey

Watched the Apuestas match between Aerostar & Super Fly from last month's _AAA Guerra de Titanes. _Complete fucking bloodbath. Enjoyed it for the most part, but I think it would've benefited from being a 2 out of 3 falls match. Do they even do that anymore? Would've liked to see them sell the beatings they'd taken a little better, but I still had fun with it. A couple sweet dives and decent nearfalls near the end. Probably go *** 1/2 for it. I've seen both of these guys in Lucha Underground a couple times and now here and I really don't feel like they're main event caliber. Am I missing something or have I just not seen the best from them?






Match comes in at the 1 hour mark in that video. Alberto El Patron vs. Texano Jr. is the match prior to it, but it just looked like an overbooked mess.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Apparently there is Lucha Libra company in my backyard called GALLI. Saw one of their shows on youtube and the commentary is half english and half spanish. I thought that was very interesting. May have to check out a show. There is a manager called James Russo that I like.


----------



## TheChoppingMachine

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Watched the Apuestas match between Aerostar & Super Fly from last month's _AAA Guerra de Titanes. _Complete fucking bloodbath. Enjoyed it for the most part, but I think it would've benefited from being a 2 out of 3 falls match. Do they even do that anymore? Would've liked to see them sell the beatings they'd taken a little better, but I still had fun with it. A couple sweet dives and decent nearfalls near the end. Probably go *** 1/2 for it. I've seen both of these guys in Lucha Underground a couple times and now here and I really don't feel like they're main event caliber. Am I missing something or have I just not seen the best from them?


AAA matches are one fall to a finish. And I don't know if you ask this because it was the last match showed but it was not the Main Event. It's just how the show is edited. The real ME was Texano/ADR, it was in full in the previous week episode. Aero and Super Fly are not main eventers.
Haven't seen the match myself yet, maybe tonight. I've watched the ADR match tho but didn't really liked it.


----------



## Rah

Someone else can go to bat for Super Fly, but I enjoy Aerostar's work. Calling him a spot-heavy wrestler is selling him a little short, as he has the fundamentals down well to at least flow these types of matches, but that is seemingly what he made a name doing and is what AAA book him to do. Judging someone by their wrestling in Lucha Underground is also a bit of an unfair judgment, considering their matches are either structured a certain way or are heavily clipped (it's a Lucha Libre movie take on wrestling as opposed to a more "genuine" match). Though, even as far as spot guys go, Aero still leads the pack considering he has more balls than brains


----------



## cablegeddon

nuevo mistico had acne spots all over his upper body during fantasticomania. so I take it that he's juicing? 

the new wwe sin cara looked chubby as hell for a luchador

how is the original mistico doing in aaa?


----------



## xsw

USAUSA1 said:


> On MLW radio VIP, Konnan confirm reports that AAA will be taping tv from a main location in Mexico City. It was a request from Televisa because they felt the show was outdated...


FWIW, there were rumors that the show would be off the air until March or later, but they already held 2 tapings and aired the first one last weekend... not surprisingly, not much of a change. Dorian Roldan did talk in an interview that with digital tv and new TV laws in Mexico, many new players are expected to enter the market and that might be why Televisa would want to improve their programming (although they're still showing 50s and 60s shows in Gala)

Talking about the AAA show itself, they're keeping the momentum from last year, in both tapings they used some guys that are not AAA regulars (Super Nova, "Indystrongtibles" members, Gotita de Plata, Hijo del Pirata Morgan... and Flamita is rumored to show up, dunno if they're casting guys for LU or are seeking for guys to fill in AAA workers that will be busy with the LU shows...

Looks like AAA will be run around Mystesis vs Perro, and maybe having Hell Brothers and a new team led by Electroshock vs Psyco Circus. El Patron will probably show up only for major shows...:grin2:


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

cablegeddon said:


> nuevo mistico had acne spots all over his upper body during fantasticomania. so I take it that he's juicing?
> 
> the new wwe sin cara looked chubby as hell for a luchador
> 
> how is the original mistico doing in aaa?


From what I've heard, the kid's leg still isn't right. He must be on the juice to aid recovery. If you saw him you'd notice he's as thin as a noodle. So I doubt he's been able to really train like he used to. Pretty depressing situation where nobody gains a thing. CMLL are trying to keep the character alive, only to keep it away from the "original". The name holds little value, people react and recognize it on a card, but way less than before. People have moved on.

There's a AAA card out for FEB 27 headlined by a trios between Alberto,Mysteziz, Fenix vs Brian Cage, Pentagon jr, Hijo Fantasma . So that seems to be the direction for El Patron. Keep him busy, while they go through with Perro vs Mysteziz. Which is one I cannot wait for. Its incredible how the AAA roster has expanded in a year.

These indy shows are putting on some really great matches.


----------



## Rah

It's incredible how AAA have gone from a promotion I have hated watching to something incredibly fun in less than a year. Original Mistico is doing fine, he's not blowing anyone away with great wrestling, but his ride with Perro Aguayo Jr will be super enjoyable (though it's hard to not have something entertaining with Aguayo in it). There's a definite motivation to his moves and he seems a lot happier where he's at now.


----------



## kimino

Found a interesting read on reddit 

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/01/man-without-mask

Very very long read, but it think its worth it.


----------



## Rah

The All Elite show is making its way onto Youtube. Grab it in case it gets taken down (probably won't, and I can always up it if someone needs it). Videos here. Fuerza Guerrera vs ***** Casas is probably must see.


----------



## Concrete

Heard there was mucho money being thrown in the ring after that one.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

That ALL-ELITE show was hot, a packed house.

When you take into consideration Fuerza Guerrera is 61 and ***** is 54, it is a tremendous match. I thought ***** really wasn't taking it too serious actually. FG really carried his end and more. For me its moty candidate but had ***** taken it more seriously, it could have been moty contender. Hot crowd ate it up, backing FG 70/30. I loved the kicking exchanges on the apron.

Here it is from a elevated view and with the stalling points edited out, so it may come off better in this version. 





Sombra/Wagner vs LA Park/Volador was what you'd expect. A messy brawl. LA Park gassed out early and recovered for the comeback, then deteriorated on the final stretch. You'll notice flashes of pre-surgery Park. This is a match you can pass on, its not the best version of Wagner/Park but its still a fun mess. Volador is MVP.

After match featured promos with the usual mask challenges. Park even mentioned Paco Alonso, infering he was Sombra's papi. lol


----------



## Exterminator

I ♥ KEMONITO;44921289 said:


> From what I've heard, the kid's leg still isn't right. He must be on the juice to aid recovery. If you saw him you'd notice he's as thin as a noodle. So I doubt he's been able to really train like he used to. Pretty depressing situation where nobody gains a thing. CMLL are trying to keep the character alive, only to keep it away from the "original". The name holds little value, people react and recognize it on a card, but way less than before. People have moved on.
> 
> There's a AAA card out for FEB 27 headlined by a trios between Alberto,Mysteziz, Fenix vs Brian Cage, Pentagon jr, Hijo Fantasma . So that seems to be the direction for El Patron. Keep him busy, while they go through with Perro vs Mysteziz. Which is one I cannot wait for. Its incredible how the AAA roster has expanded in a year.
> 
> These indy shows are putting on some really great matches.


It's pretty sad how Místico II is only 22 and already way past his prime & he probably won't be around in a couple of years. He just looks so broken while wrestling nowadays, like he can hardly even stand on his injured leg. He has gone from doing amazing creative spots to doing what the opener guys does, more or less.

That being said, he's never been a good worker but all the potential he had to become one is now pretty much gone.


----------



## Juni354

Hey, I was going to create a thread for my question but I figured this would be a better place. Sin Cara in WWE clearly left much to be desired. However, I know he use to be a big deal in Mexico year's back. My question is what's a match that showcases how amazing he can be?


----------



## USAUSA1

You should watch the main event of the last episode of aaa tv on YouTube. Great episode, probably my favorite tv show so far in 2015.


----------



## Rah

***** Casas vs Mistico


----------



## xsw

In some CMLL news, Homenaje a dos Leyendas is set for mid March with a Terrible/Rey Bucanero vs Maximo/Volador Jr hair match. rudos and Maximo were always being rumored to be jumping to AAA, but never happening. With Terrible losing the HW title and very likely his hair, rumors should be back stronger than ever... :wink2:

Besides that, it seems Mr Niebla was fired from CMLL during the Japan tour...


----------



## DOPA

looking to try out AAA, is Sin Limite like their weekly show? I'm on AAA's YT page right now which is why I'm asking.


----------



## cablegeddon

Juni354 said:


> Hey, I was going to create a thread for my question but I figured this would be a better place. Sin Cara in WWE clearly left much to be desired. However, I know he use to be a big deal in Mexico year's back. My question is what's a match that showcases how amazing he can be?


believe it or not but I actually liked some oh his matches in wwe better than his old cmll stuff. when he worked with for example drew McIntyre and heath Slater, really talented workers, those matches were really good!


----------



## xsw

L-DOPA said:


> looking to try out AAA, is Sin Limite like their weekly show? I'm on AAA's YT page right now which is why I'm asking.


Yes it is, they upload the YT show the same weekend as the TV show airs, it is the Cable/Regional version which is half an hour longer than the network version, it would have an extra (usually opener or at times repeats from previous week) match, or lots of recaps.


----------



## DOPA

Whilst its on my mind, any Lucha matches from 2015 so far which are must watch?


----------



## BadTouch

I'd like to give Lucha Libre a go. Can anyone recommend a good starting point


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

BadTouch said:


> I'd like to give Lucha Libre a go. Can anyone recommend a good starting point


To get the most out of it, you really should understand the bases and "unwritten" rules. Whats so great about lucha libre, is that you don't have to know anything about it to enjoy it. You don't have to know the history, or what moves are over, or who's feuding. You can watch a match and it will explain itself. Some would say the best aspect of Lucha is that a match can be a culmination of styles. Like brawling, high-flying, technical, theatrical.

You should probably familiarize yourself with the simple basis of Rudos vs Tecnicos. The value of the mask is important, overides any belt. Hairs are the next best trophy. Just because its "old" and on youtube doesn't mean its good. Stick with names that are recognized like ***** Casas, Dandy, Mysterio, Satanico,etc do a search. As you aqcuire a taste go on and check out more obscure names. 

I'd recomend you watch a match of every type of style within lucha. 

-For brawling watch Casas/Dandy/Santo which depicts the height of conflict perfectly
-For a technical match check out Solar/***** Navarro/Arkangel de la muerte/Virus
-High-flying I'll recomend my favorite high-flyer Venum Black from early AAA
-Theatrical guys that know how to work a crowd like Fuerza Guerrera/Perro Aguayo/Cien Caras

There is a ton of info in this thread to help guide you. 



L-DOPA said:


> Whilst its on my mind, any Lucha matches from 2015 so far which are must watch?


I don't know about MUST watch, but these have good so far this year:
2015-01-04 @ Arena México
Dragon Lee, Guerrero Maya Jr., The Panther vs Hechicero, Hombre sin Nombre, Sagrado
Flamita/ Hijo de Fishman/ Skyman vs Fénix/ Pentagón jr/ Hijo del Fantasma
Barbaro Cavernario vs Rey Cometa Fantasticamania 
***** Casas vs Fuerza Guerrera Liga Elite 2015 
2015-01-11 @ Arena México 
Máximo vs ***** Casas


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Big AAA press confrence to introduce Rey Misterio Jr. today.










I hear those 3 will participate as a trio on a special aaa world cup show on 5/23, that I think may be a Jarrett GFW production. Rey will be on AAA Rey de Reyes ippv, I do not know in what capacity, but it makes sense for his debut to be on that show.

Maybe the second big aaa show will be replaced by that 5/23 event? The event is said to be offering a national team competition between Mexico, Japan, USA, and "Rest of the World".


----------



## BadTouch

Watched about half of the most recent AAA Sin Límite on Youtube, and I've spent the better part of the last week watching various matches I have come across. I have to say, I'm really starting to like Lucha Libre. 

Cheers for the recommendations, I ♥ KEMONITO


----------



## xsw

I ♥ KEMONITO;46001962 said:


> I hear those 3 will participate as a trio on a special aaa world cup show on 5/23, that I think may be a Jarrett GFW production. Rey will be on AAA Rey de Reyes ippv, I do not know in what capacity, but it makes sense for his debut to be on that show.
> 
> Maybe the second big aaa show will be replaced by that 5/23 event? The event is said to be offering a national team competition between Mexico, Japan, USA, and "Rest of the World".


AAA is teasing Hijo del Perro & Petagon Jr vs Mystezis & ??? With ??? likely being Rey jr. He did say that "Next time I'll see you in the ring" so...

The "World Cup" was said to have 3 teams from Mexico (the one mentioned + an "Independientes" and "Reconocidos (Leyends?), 2 from the USA (likely, Lucha Underground teams), a Japanese team (no idea who) and rest of the world (Angelico, Australian Suicida and maybe Mesias), maybe Mesias could be in a Puerto Rico team to make it up to 8 teams. :nerd:


----------



## Rah

As far as I know, one of the US teams is from RoH.


----------



## xsw

Yeah, mediotiempo newssite said ROH, which does not make much sense since AAA has Lucha Underground to fill up the US teams, they also said that LU will be in Mexico "soon", so the World Cup would be perfect to introduce LU workers to Mexican audiences, why waste a spot with ROH? 

They also said Japan would have 2 teams, maybe one is gonna be Styles/Bucks (Bulletclub) + a New Japan team - Assuming Jarrett is the one working it out. And the reporter thought AJ/Bucks is from ROH. Dunno. Maybe GFW is gonna end up being another AAA brand :wink2:


----------



## kimino

AAA world cup it would be great if the best ring announcer "Mucha Crema Gaytan" presented all wrestlers


----------



## Corey

Good lord what a card.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Rey de Reyes's gonna be awesome. i'm glad Rey Misterio will be in AAA again and that Cage's gonna be there too.


----------



## Punkhead

Holy shit! I am so happy that my favorite wrestler is finally back in AAA. I will definitely watch Rey de Reyes. But here's the thing: I haven't had much time, was really busy and I didn't watch any lucha ever since Triplemania last year. Can anyone fill me in on what happened in AAA from Triplemania leading up to Rey de Reyes? I would be grateful.


----------



## xsw

Only the Cibernetico, Averno and Chessman vs Demon, Jack and Angelico seem to be build after AAAmania: Cibernetico was arguing with Roldan telling them AAA was weak to fight of its enemies and that he (Ciber) will form a group to fight them. So he reformed the Hell Brothers and attacked Blue Demon and other tecnicos.

Aguayo vs Mystezis has been going on forever, Rey de Reyes keeps the Texano vs Psycho thing going, AAA youtube channel has some Cage promos explaining their deal. In a press conference Fenix complained that Hijo del Fantasma didn't beat him in a one on one at AAAmania so it seems they'll have Fantasma defending his title in singles matches to the AAAmania cruiserweight title match participants, with this being the first one.:nerd:


----------



## Corey

Has anyone heard any news regarding Alberto and his torn quad? Any changes to the match with Cage?


----------



## USAUSA1

Fenix/Alberto/Myzteziz vs. Brian Cage/Pentagon/Fantasma match was really fun. Brian Cage fit in.


----------



## BadTouch

USAUSA1 said:


> Fenix/Alberto/Myzteziz vs. Brian Cage/Pentagon/Fantasma match was really fun. Brian Cage fit in.


He was very good. For a guy with his bulk, he is incredibly agile. Really enjoyed this weeks sin limite.


----------



## Wrestling is Life

I don't follow AAA, but I am strongly considering watching Rey de Reyes. 

I feel like seeing Rey Mysterio's return to AAA will be something special and the match itself sounds fun as Pentagon Jr. has become one of my current favorites thanks to Lucha Underground. Also interested in seeing Myzteziz perform because I loved him in Mexico as Mistico, but his WWE run as Sin Cara left a lot to be desired. I expect much more from him now that he is back in his element.

Brian Cage vs Alberto El Patron also sounds great - a fan of both men. Glad to see Cage's work in Lucha Underground has propelled him into AAA and a program with the champ.

Then there are all the guys I have learned to love from watching Lucha Undeground like Aero Star, Drago and Fenix. Very tempting.


----------



## USAUSA1

Only $10


----------



## Wrestling is Life

Officially ordered it. Actually costed $15.


----------



## USAUSA1

It was $10 if you order before today. $15 still not bad for a huge event like this. Now for a small Indy, it would be too much.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I know I'm late, here is a preview for the show that cubsfan wrote. 

The venue for Rey de Reyes is an open air bull-ring and currently there is rain in the forecast at above 50% probability. The show might be a mediocre one at best or end up being the worst AAA show of the year due to conditions. I am not compelled to see if it is or isn't, so if you want to take a chance on it, go ahead. Just wanted to warn anybody about it.


----------



## Vårmakos

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/577258318369931264
Due to the weather. 

This sucks.


----------



## Wrestling is Life

First time ever deciding to order a AAA event....and it gets rained out.


----------



## Concrete

And now moved to Wednesday. Same time, same place.


----------



## Corey

Apparently Cage & Alberto couldn't get paperwork to work the show? Idk. Talk about a disaster.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Apparently Cage & Alberto couldn't get paperwork to work the show? Idk. Talk about a disaster.


Yeah, they cancelled once again Rey de Reyes, they are going to do it now next Wednesday at 20 pm Mexico Time. I hope this time they are able to do Rey de Reyes.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/577617097225682944


----------



## Wrestling is Life

Seriously?! Wow! What a mess!

I wonder if I can get my $15 back....


----------



## Concrete

Alberto is apparently hurt. That match is cancelled and sounds like it wouldn't have happened today. 

The building the rescheduled to wouldn't let them use it without a permit. AAA couldn't get a permit because of a national holiday.

EDIT: This is what I'm gathering from Twitter.


----------



## Corey

Well damn. I knew Alberto was hurt but I thought he'd still be able to work the match. I watched his tag match from last week w/ Matt Hardy against the Young Bucks and while he didn't look 100%, he was still able to hit backstabbers and superkicks without any major setback.


----------



## DregSkorn

this really sucks, AAA really dropped the ball, especially at a time when they have more avenues to get their product out there and with a lot buzz with Rey coming back, this was there chance to get some good publicity.

I understand they can't control the weather but to not have a solid contingency plan in place is not smart planning, they should have at least moved it to a weekend date as having a show like this during the week doesn't really help those with busy weekday schedules.

also you have to feel bad for all those people that traveled to Guadalajara just for the show and now can't go to the show on Wednesday or have no place to stay, till then.


----------



## Chingo Bling

I was about to order the show, but luckily I checked twitter out. Saw it was a no go. Bummer. Imma watch LU instead. They completly lost the plot on this.


----------



## Concrete

The weekends wouldn't have been an option with so many members of the card having other commitments. e.g. Lucha Underground


----------



## BadTouch

Did this event happen then?


----------



## USAUSA1

AAA staff was involved in a serious bus accident. 1 dead and several went to the hospital. I expect the show to be cancel completely now. 

If this show wasn't on ippv, I don't think the event being cancelled would have been a big deal.


----------



## Vårmakos

Jesus Christ, the fuck is going on?


----------



## USAUSA1

IDK but its not a good week for AAA. Let's hope this weekend Lucha Underground tapings have no issues.


----------



## nym0705

It looks like the show is on, translating the official statement, the website says the show will be held Wednesday.


----------



## DregSkorn

sad to hear that someone was killed in the accident, at this point they should just scrap the event and regroup and maybe hold an event for those that were affected by this tragedy and donate all the proceeds for those in need.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Watching Rey de Reyes atm. there have been good and interesting matches and still there are some more to come.


----------



## ZEROVampire

Fénix vs Hijo del Fantasma for the Campeonato Crucero was very good


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Villano 4 vs Blue Demon Jr. replaced Cage vs Alberto. Decent match, Villano 4 trying to set up a mask match in an after-match promo. Possibly could occur this year if you ask around. 

I didn't get to see anything before this. Guerros del cielo/Parka vs Hell Bros up right now.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Main event was a pretty basic match. More of a exhibition type feel to it. Rey won with a canadian destroyer. It looked ridiculous. Lucha needs less Canadian destroyer variants and super kicks.


----------



## eldoon

I ♥ KEMONITO;46605562 said:


> Villano 4 vs Blue Demon Jr. replaced Cage vs Alberto. Decent match, Villano 4 trying to set up a mask match in an after-match promo. Possibly could occur this year if you ask around.
> 
> I didn't get to see anything before this. Guerros del cielo/Parka vs Hell Bros up right now.


That was my highlight match

They had no time to prepare and put on an epic match for 2 old men


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

eldoon said:


> That was my highlight match
> 
> They had no time to prepare and put on an epic match for 2 old men


Speaking of epic matches for old men. The second meeting between ***** and Fuerza Guerrera. This match is plagued by the CMLL vs Indys storyline throughout it. If you can stomach Tirantes you'll think its a great match. Excellent matwork in this, I recommend watching the all-elite match beforehand.






Aftermatch, ***** suggests Mask vs Hair, Fuerza doesn't bite and explains that his mask is much more valuable than a hair.


----------



## USAUSA1

I hope Aerostar is ok.


----------



## Wrestling is Life

Figured since I paid $15 for Rey de Reyes (and was unable to get a refund despite not being able to watch it when it was on Wednesday) that I would check out the show. Unfortunately despite loving Lucha Underground, the actual AAA product does not seem to appeal to me as much. Perhaps tomorrow I will give it another go but I forwarded right to Fenix vs Fantasma and despite liking both, I just could not get into the match. Maybe it is just my mood tonight - will give it another try tomorrow. The announcers are just too much for me right now.


----------



## Punkhead

http://zetatijuana.com/noticias/dep...conocimiento-en-lucha-con-rey-misterio-junior

Something happened to Hijo del Perro Aguayo. The article says he's stable. I hope he'll be OK.

EDIT: http://zetatijuana.com/noticias/generalez/19627/muere-hijo-de-perro-aguayo

This article reports his death. I'm not sure if this is to be trusted, but very sad if true.


----------



## Punkhead

Texano Jr. tweeted it. Apparently, it must be true. R.I.P.


----------



## Punkhead

Here is a video of him before the match with Rey Jr.:






Here is an article from PWTorch in English: http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/Other_News_4/article_83990.shtml


----------



## Rah

One of the most entertaining wrestlers I've ever had the pleasure of watching, taken far, far too soon.


----------



## Gretchen

Watched my first episode of LU yesterday. Super fun show. Liking the format and the matches were good.


----------



## Pappa Bacon

From pwtorch

One of the top stars in Mexico, El Hijo del Perro Aguayo, reportedly died early Saturday morning after taking Rey Mysterio's 619 maneuver at a AAA show Friday night in Tijuana, Mexico..

According to news reports, El Hijo took the 619 in the trachea trying to avoid the move, causing severe whiplash. El Hijo was placed on a backbrace by paramedics and taken out of the Municipal Auditorium arena to Del Prado hospital..


----------



## USAUSA1

God has a plan for everyone. He died doing what he loved. RIP to one of the greatest.

Going to be interesting too see how AAA handle this. They loss their top heel.


----------



## Pappa Bacon

AAA also lost an executive in the bus crash the other day


----------



## Corey

Good lord, the amount of bad luck this company has had in the past week...


----------



## MR-Bolainas

USAUSA1 said:


> God has a plan for everyone. He died doing what he loved. RIP to one of the greatest.
> 
> Going to be interesting too see how AAA handle this. They loss their top heel.


It's gonna be either Texano Jr or Pentagon Jr. i'd say Texano because he won Rey de Reyes this year and also he's going after Alberto el Patron Megacampeonato.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I don't know what AAA does from here. I know people will blame Rey regardless, and will give their heart to whoever they put against him. IF he does work for them from here on. If I think I know Rey, I know he will want to help stabilize the company through this moment. Its going to take while to get through this one.


----------



## xsw

I think most people in Mexico will think it was just a freak accident as no one can really understand what happened as they were everyday bumps. Some will blame Rey jr, but those will be AAA or just lucha haters and even some haters (like CMLL/Indy workers who are showing their support) are aware that it was an unfortunate event. Attendance will probably go up and we'll see some very emotional shows. Probably leading to a Triplemania with Perro Jr inducted to the AAA Hall of Fame. 

What comes next? I wish they put an end to the Sociedad and obviously Perros del Mal run, maybe trying to run a couple of months just as "we are all luchadors and a brotherhood". I mean, last Wednesday, Dorian Roldan was setup for the 619, how will it look if they keep doing stuff like that when a trained 20 year experience top star seemingly died from at similar spot? The Rey de Reyes 2015 might end up not even airing, as Aguayo had 2 segments and people were chanting "chingas a tu madre". 

if the AAA world cup still takes place, a new heel group might take up from there. Maybe Alberto might turn rudo, feuding with Psycho Clown could be the way to go in which it could main a huge event for Psycho finally winning the title without needing to use a stip match. Or Cibernetico reforms the Vipers, with him, Mesias and Pentagon Jr being the main eventers (like Ciber, Abismo ***** and ElectroShock were in the late 90s) and Chessman, Averno, Fantasma and Daga serving the Maniaco, Histeria, Psicosis and Mosco roles, dunno. Since I don't think Aguayo was ever going to job his hair, they were already on a dead end with his feuds. We still need to see how the tragedy is assimilated by the public, what a horrible week for lucha...


----------



## amhlilhaus

WHAT THE FUCK?????

that's so fucked up snd so sad.


----------



## Rah

AAA has a lot of talent that they can push toward that empty spot. No one will be able to fill in Perro's void, or, at least, so soon, though. I continue to think Terrible will go to AAA, and I had this hope of Texano, Perro and Terrible reuniting once again but sometimes our dreams never come true. 

Still cannot believe he's gone; that I will never see another match with his magical charisma. I still have much of his CMLL run to go through, but all that promise of a stacked AAA roster means so little to me now without him at the centre of it.


----------



## Lazyking

Best Perro Jr. matches, Rah?


----------



## Mvpscrewdriver305

AAA at this point is WWE of Mexico. Talent. money. connections. Ratings. Sponsorships. AAA is the big leagues.

The way crash and aaa have handled the bad press is good.

Rey going away from twitter is smart. Mistakes happen especially in wrestling.

Perro matches

La Parka
Mistico
***** Casas
Nicho
ADR
Mesias


----------



## Rah

Lazyking said:


> Best Perro Jr. matches, Rah?


Best is a bit hard to put down, especially when my knowledge on his earlier work is so shallow, but I'd guess:

vs El Hijo Del Santo 2004+2006
vs Mistico 2005 (but there's others where he is a great heel foil to tecnico Mistico I must get to)

There's a match of his against El Dandy from sometime early in the 2000s, I didn't think it was overly good but it has Perro making Dandy's arm traps and subs look like a million bucks with his facials. Some people love the Perro/Universo hairs match, which I haven't seen so I cannot comment. Universo 2000 is one of the most boring wrestlers in Mexico, so I have my reservations. Maybe an apuesta and working a charisma-volcano Perro would give him some life, but I don't know. Universo's brothes (Cien Caras and Mascara 2000) had a fun match with Perro Jr+Sr, which I believe capped off their feud. But you want best...

Look, the reason I love Perrito is not because he's one of the greatest wrestlers of all time; hell, or even really that great. Some people may label him that, not quite myself. It's what he does in his matches that makes me a fan. He entertains. Simple as that. When I started watching AAA a few years ago I found it an atrocious product. Fake Parka, Electroshock and Cibernetico were stinking things up on a weekly basis. Perro was pretty much the sole reason I kept watching. He was a good enough foil to Parka's horrendously over-played comedy - something you can see here. He would come out and steal kisses from the women in the audience, slaps the boyfriend's drinks in their face if they try say anything and just pick fights with anyone at ringside, most especially the cameramen for either getting in his way or capturing him being beaten down. If I was to pick any match that encapsulates why I enjoyed his work so much, it would have to be his outing at Heroes Inmortales 2014. It helps that he's with three talented men, but from his shadow-boxing in pretending to fight fans after they rile him up to stealing a guy's chair for insulting him it doesn't get much better.





skip to 1h1m55s



There's a moment where Alberto is beating the shit out of him, and irish whips him into the barricade. A fan's phone falls onto the ground and Perro grabs at it, trying his best to dial for emergency services to help him out. _That's Perro._ One of the few wrestlers to masterfully blend being a shit-talking, egotistical heel with prat-falling, self-deprecating comedy without the two seemingly opposing sides working to the other's detriment.


edit: here's a great career retrospective


----------



## Punkhead

Some great obituaries by El Pancracio and KrisZ.


----------



## Yeah1993

Santo/Perro from 04 is IMO one of the best matches of the entire 2000s. The Santo/Casas v. Perro/Garza tag from the same year is really excellent too.


----------



## Lazyking

is their any way to get Lucha Libre shirts online to the USA? Like the perros del mal shirt.


----------



## Chingo Bling

Lazyking said:


> is their any way to get Lucha Libre shirts online to the USA? Like the perros del mal shirt.


Sadly there are not any online stores like pwtees.com. The only plausible way besides going to Mexico, would be getting somebody over there to buy your shit for you and ship it. You could ask maybe Pentagon JR to send you one. He is on facebook selling his shirts and shit, probably can get you a perros shirt. They gonna put out a memorial shirt through maskedrepublic with proceeds going to Perro's family. 

Let me tell you that paypal is not used as a main payment option in Mexico from my experiance. I've given over my bank info to get some masks before. Masks and only masks


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Rush hyping up the rematch against the Traumas at the CaraLucha press confrence (quick translation):
-We only accepted the match because we were offered more money this time.

-They always whine about us being protected by CMLL, please find a new excuse.

-If they couldn't hack it elsewhere, what makes them think their in my league. Masks not interested, but we are interested in humiliating, not interested. even in CMll, we aren't interested in any mask, let alone those 2 lizards. We only want Atlantis' mask. He is a legend, but they do not allow it. We never get the chance to face him. 

-IF you want me to face an independent wrestler bring on Wagner or Park, but dont ask about those 2 fucking pet lizards.

-If they think their so badass I want them to try to put a llave on me, if they can. Just 1 hold if they can. becasuse i'm not like every other luchador that lets himself be put in a hold. We don't trade holds or take turns. We like to humiliate. We are going to destroy them. We are the real wrestlers of today. We are going to humiliate them. This interview is over, you filthy dogs. 

Sombra and Mascara were present but they really don't add much and are not good promos. You can find the vids on +lucha yt channel.


----------



## amhlilhaus

I ♥ KEMONITO;46934114 said:


> Rush hyping up the rematch against the Traumas at the CaraLucha press confrence (quick translation):
> -We only accepted the match because we were offered more money this time.
> 
> -They always whine about us being protected by CMLL, please find a new excuse.
> 
> -If they couldn't hack it elsewhere, what makes them think their in my league. Masks not interested, but we are interested in humiliating, not interested. even in CMll, we aren't interested in any mask, let alone those 2 lizards. We only want Atlantis' mask. He is a legend, but they do not allow it. We never get the chance to face him.
> 
> -IF you want me to face an independent wrestler bring on Wagner or Park, but dont ask about those 2 fucking pet lizards.
> 
> -If they think their so badass I want them to try to put a llave on me, if they can. Just 1 hold if they can. becasuse i'm not like every other luchador that lets himself be put in a hold. We don't trade holds or take turns. We like to humiliate. We are going to destroy them. We are the real wrestlers of today. We are going to humiliate them. This interview is over, you filthy dogs.
> 
> Sombra and Mascara were present but they really don't add much and are not good promos. You can find the vids on +lucha yt channel.


I have read a few of rush's promos. dude makes me want to learn Spanish. so hyped for his return


----------



## Concrete

I had a pal on Twitter that went to Mexico to pick up Hechicero shirts (and watch wrestling). Got one and it feels like a true accomplishment.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Really good tag match on Sin Límite - Querétaro Parte 2 - Lucha Libre AAA - Marzo 2015 Hijo de Pirata Morgan/Joe Lider vs Drago/Super Nova

La Sombra and Volador had a really good match (fancam). La Sombra vs. Volador Jr. (Los Angeles, 3/22/15) Sombra actually tries, and puts in a good effort here. 

Just waiting for Dragon Lee vs Kamaitachi to surface.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Ingobernables vs Traumas + Eterno II at Caralucha 
Fan cam, only the first 7 minutes. Really hot match. There's a funny moment where Trauma II tries to mount a comeback. Its better than the first meeting.


----------



## Rah

That Trauma 1/Rush punch up is great. When's daddy coming to slap the smirk off of Rush's face?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Dragon Lee vs Kamaitachi, mask vs mask is finally up. Killer match, as the guys trade big move after big move. MOTYC. It does not dissapoint.


----------



## Rah

Hell of a year for Dragon Lee. Talented kid.







I'll get to this tomorrow, I need to catch up on Leyendas Inmortales, first. Is anyone else a fan? Fan is probably the wrong word.


----------



## BadTouch

I ♥ KEMONITO;47365057 said:


> Dragon Lee vs Kamaitachi, mask vs mask is finally up. Killer match, as the guys trade big move after big move. MOTYC. It does not dissapoint.


That was a fantastic match, some insane big moves. That is one hell of a finish from Dragon Lee, I think I'll keep an eye out for more from him.


----------



## xsw

So, it's happening... supposed to be 8 team trios tournament. This is more of Victoria beer than AAA thing, so we'll see. There'll be 3 Mexican teams, 2 from USA and 2 from Japan + one other. 

AAA: Dream Team: Patron, Mystezis and Rey Misterio jr. 
AAA Team: coming from a series of matches, Fenix/Electroshock/*HdFantasma* -- La Parka/*Texano Jr.*/Cibernetico -- Psycho Clown/Zorro/*Averno*, guessing on the bold dudes to make it to the tournament. :wink2:
MxIndy: Blue Demon Jr, Dr Wagner Jr + someone else. IF Alberto is the one making the deals here, I could see Hijo de Dos Caras there to run an angle for the family.
"Rest of the world": Probably Mesias, Australian Suicide and Angelico. Or maybe Carlito.

USA TNA: They mentioned Matt Hardy, Victoria beer might want ex-WWE guys there, but if they wanted Kurt Angle they would have already announce him, so I'm guessing Drew Galloway (Alberto's friend) and maybe Manik.
USA ROH: Jay Lethal to pay el Patron back his pin? Add Rodrick Strong too...+ someone else, Matt Sydal? 
AJPW: Kenzo and Ultimo Dragon + another Jr Heavyweight.
NOAH: Taiji Ishimori was mentioned. New Japan declined to take part in the event, but maybe they'll have NOAH team there, so maybe Lyger + someone else.

It was probably a good thing New Japan won't be there, no one from there would mean anything to draw fans to the show (nor any other of the international teams unless they find enough ex-WWEs) and they would want to win the whole thing, which surely has to go to Rey and friends.

There was also talks that AAA and TNA have reopened a relationship (and there's a new one with ROH and AAA) so hopefully this means GFW is out, now Jarrett can work with CMLL, which would be a better deal for both.> (all 3 counting NJPW)


----------



## USAUSA1

Paco working with JJ? Believe it when I see it.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

World cup show looks great. Another name that's half in the bag is Zema Ion for the TNA team, Jeff Hardy can not go due to legal issues, I hear..Its a show I would probably try to go watch in person had there been an earlier announcment. 

Also saw that Wagner was listed on the event info. Does this mean LA Park could be on his team? lol.

Rest of world could be Angelico, Evans, Suicide?


----------



## xsw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/591242661647921152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/591241710421741568
Japanese teams got announced already, 

AJPW: Koji Kanemoto, Kenzo Suzuki, Masamune

NOAH: Taiji Ishimori, Atsushi Kotoge, Yoshihiro Takayama

Maybe Wagner will get to pin Kanemoto to avenge that BOSJ final from 98? >

Teams seem to have one tall guy +2 Jrs, guess to keep with El Patron with Rey Jr and Mystezis, so the Mexican "Indy" team probably won't have LA Park, best shot would be Flamita, or maybe Juvy? :shrug


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I heard the Flamita-AAA relation is not so good. If it was, he would have done some shows for them when he was in Mexico. It does seem like this event has money behind it, so would not be surprised if he does end up on the show. 

Takayama being there makes me want to go so bad, but the dates don't line up for me. That said, if I can get a good last minute deal, I"ll be there.

Speaking of AAA, the Sin Limite show from San Luis was great. During the Cage/Alberto match you could see where Cage "possibly tore" his tricep. He powerbombs Alberto out of the armbar. He goes to the corner and talks with Konnan. Later on he tosses La Parka like a bag of sugar, so maybe not.

I also just got to see Dr Cerebro vs Brazo Jr for WMC belt. The match just reminds you how good Cerebro is. Brazo holds his own for a great first fall on the mat. But that moment happened. Cerebro has him in a leg lock and Brazo counters, only that he has completely run out of holds from his arsenal. So he just beats on his leg. Match is clipped so you don't get the whole story. The leg work does not come in to play later on. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_QtC0SOe98

Brazo lost his focus after that and the match suffered. Cerebro pulled through to finish the match but it never reached the same height to which it began. Once again its clipped, so don't expect too much.

I"ve been on the look out for some DTU matches but no luck. Los Nerds has caught my attention, but can't find any matches. It sucks because I know people have it and its entirely a buisness move, so I understand.


----------



## Rah

Black Terry's kid has Los Nerds/Tortugas Ninjas for a couple bucks. But I assume that's what you meant by business. Will look around after work tomorrow. 

Brazo/Cerebro had an apuesta this week, I believe. Bloody, which is more to Brazo's skill. Did you watch Brazo/Kortiz? Not a good angle for the camera but it's a (fake) Brazo kid vs a (legit) Villano kid and as bloody as the fathers ever went.


----------



## xsw

I ♥ KEMONITO;48103762 said:


> I heard the Flamita-AAA relation is not so good. If it was, he would have done some shows for them when he was in Mexico.


Have not heard about AAA-Flamita having any problems, he was in Mexico during a time AAA had no tapings, then one tv taping had a surprise luchador, but it turned out to be Super Nova, who has a better standing in AAA because of family ties, but then Super Nova injured himself last month. Anyways, if Wagner is in the show, anyone could be there regardless of past history with AAA (save Hijo del Santo)

Someone they might use: Laredo Kid. Is supposed to join NXT a month after the world cup, so AAA might get him just to claim they "discovered" him if he makes it big later, LK works AAA spot shows, something could be done if they're actually looking for a young flyer to round up the indy team. 

Speaking of High Flyers, CMLL is doing "Reyes del Aire" (from thecubsfan)

La Sombra vs Ángel de Oro, Delta, Guerrero Maya Jr., Dragon Lee, Stuka Jr., Tritón, Fuego, Niebla Roja, Gran Guerrero, Bárbaro Cavernario, Kamaitachi, Misterioso Jr., Virus, Tiger, Puma [Reyes del Aire]

Not the strongest lineup, with Valiente and Volador Jr in the main event, and some injured guys (Star Jr and Rey Cometa). They seem to have less rookies this year on the roster, they just changed the names to Blue Panther's kids and that's it, maybe they're letting some current rookies some room to breathe before bringing more in. :shrug


----------



## USAUSA1

Aaa has really done a great job getting over Cage. More than LU, I think if Ricochet didn't miss his flight last summer he would be a regular in aaa. 

Mesias vs Patron looking like the potential Mania main event.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Great Show this week in Xalapa of AAA, They broadcasted part 1 and it was great, i hope they announce more details of Lucha Libre World Cup soon.

Also World Wrestling League from Puerto Rico started broadcasting their new show "High Voltage" on Mega TV and they announced that they will have a new Championship called "Mega TV Championship" and that Alberto El Patron will go to Puerto Rico Soon.


----------



## USAUSA1

MR-Bolainas said:


> Great Show this week in Xalapa of AAA, They broadcasted part 1 and it was great, i hope they announce more details of Lucha Libre World Cup soon.
> 
> Also World Wrestling League from Puerto Rico started broadcasting their new show "High Voltage" on Mega TV and they announced that they will have a new Championship called "Mega TV Championship" and that Alberto El Patron will go to Puerto Rico Soon.



Mega championship? Wwl is full of crap.


----------



## KÃªnh giáº£i trÃ

I found the links to TripleMania. Can't wait to watch it tonight.

Need to catch up on CMLL and IWRG.


----------



## KÃªnh giáº£i trÃ

Mega championship? Wwl is full of crap.


----------



## Rah

Alfredo has a tremendous article on the career and life of Rudy Reyna who passed away early yesterday morning. A true pioneer of the exotico gimmick.

QEPD Rudy


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

xsw said:


> Have not heard about AAA-Flamita having any problems, he was in Mexico during a time AAA had no tapings, then one tv taping had a surprise luchador.




AAA ran 2 shows in consecutive days when he was there, but none were taped. 

Rah, I still have yet to check out that match. Just haven't had the time. I remeber seeing those junior Villanos and thought they were pretty good like around 2011. 

Not only Rudy Reyna but El Verdugo also passed away recently. He is Pirata Morgan's brother.


----------



## xsw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/593152936370311168
Victoria beer (which is currently featured in AAA and CMLL mats) is running a promotion, including lucha themed beer cans and bottle taps, as well as other promotional articles (for stores).


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Rah said:


> Did you watch Brazo/Kortiz? Not a good angle for the camera but it's a (fake) Brazo kid vs a (legit) Villano kid and as bloody as the fathers ever went.


 Finally got around to it. It was like watching one of those old brawls. Kortiz really is a Villano V replica. Great match and a fitting finish. 

The Ninja Turtles had an amazing match. Against themselves for CaraLucha. Best gimmicks ever. They get to bump on a pillow! :grin2:






Only highlights. For now.


----------



## Rah

Only the first seven minutes will be uploaded. Much like this guy recorded Hechicero/Solar/Guerrera Maya vs Dinastia Navarro and only gave us 3 minutes of it. Uploader has disabled video comments and profile discussions, so there's no way to plead to see any more than the taste given. Of course he puts the full 30 minute Canek match up. Bastard.


----------



## dan the marino

Anyone know a good site or link where I can watch episodes of this? I've heard so many good things about it that I think I'd rather watch this than RAW tonight. I found (I think) a dailymotion user with the episodes uploaded but they're only 45 minutes long so I wasn't sure if they were full or not.


----------



## Rah

I assume you're referring to Lucha Underground (and not CMLL nor AAA). The episodes are only 45 minutes.


EDIT: Team TNA have been announced. Matt Hardy, Ken Anderson & Drew Galloway.


----------



## xsw

Victoria is asking for ex-wwe guys so TNA makes sense, and Galloway is Alberto's friend so it kinda makes sense. 

Wagner Jr did confirm for +Luchatv to be part of the show. There's also the other AAA team which resulted from the weekend tapings

[hide]Texano Jr, Hijo del Fantasma and Psycho Clown[/hide]


----------



## Rah

Galloway is out of Team TNA and into Team RotW. Johnny Mundo (John Morrison) to take his place on Team USA/TNA.


----------



## xsw

So, the teams, so far:

AAA: Mysteziz, Rey Jr and El Patron
AAA2: Texano, Psycho and Hijo del Fantasma
Mex: Dr Wagner Jr, blue demon jr +1
AJPW: Koji Kanemoto, Kenzo Suzuki, Masamune
NOAH: Taiji Ishimori, Atsushi Kotoge, Yoshihiro Takayama
USA: Johnny Mundo, Matt Hardy and Ken Anderson
USA2; ROH guys
RotW: Drew Galloway + likely, Mesias and Angelico. 

Maybe Mil Muertes instead of Mesias... oh wait, Pascual is Mexican... > I'm guessing Jack Evans will be in Team ROH to serve as the fall guy. 

I'm guessing this won't be in the regular AAA tv rotation, probably to be aired on a special show in Televisa. Maybe PPV in Mexico? They have not announced it yet.


----------



## xsw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/596144567470002179 
:surprise:


----------



## xsw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/596354065631555584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/596360755944947712
Wagner, Solar and bludemon jr are in the 3rd Mexican team. Galloway, Angelico and Mesias in the Rest of the World.:grin2:

Matches will have 15 minute limit, if no result was achieved, they'll go to a sudden death in a 5 minute singles match... Canek and Mascara Año 2000 will act as judges, selecting the best match and wrestler of the night. 

Will air on iPPV, Vampiro and Striker being the English announcing team.

:nerd:


----------



## Rah

Canek/Mascara as judges of what good wrestling is :lmao


----------



## USAUSA1

I enjoyed Fantasma vs. Fenix vs. Electroshock. Thought they work well together.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

2015-04-28 @ Arena México
Atlantis, Blue Panther, Dragon Lee vs ***** Casas, Shocker, Vangellys

Masters at work. ***** Casas takes the cake in this with his no fucks given attitude. Rudo Shocker is the perfect character for this stage of his career. He really beats up Dragon Lee. Paying him back for having to put Rush over? lol. Everybody plays their role in this.


----------



## xsw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/599025226492481536
Johnny Mundo in the main event, but not facing Alberto > There are a couple of "surprise luchador", the one in the high flying "Alas de Oro" tourney might be Ricochet or Son of Havoc? :wink2:


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Hell of a match. Cavernario and Titan put out one of the best CMLL matches of the year. Great heat in the match. A first fall fueled by machismo. Neither man wants to give in and use the ropes. There are some spectacular dives from Titan. One of which nearly ends in disaster. Both guys looked great. Would enhance viewing if you've watched both guys befrore. ****1/2

Cavernario had a bum knee at the time and still had a great match. 

There is a story about Rush having an incident with a Arena Mexico parking lot staff member. You can read here

It says Rush nearly bitch slapped the guy into a coma. Not really that but Rush did hurt the guy enough that his doctors suspect a possible vertebrae fracture. Because the lot attendant would not let his wife come in against orders not to let anyone in. 

It happened some time ago and was kept quiet untill guy got that diagnosis. Don't mess with Rush.


----------



## xsw

I ♥ KEMONITO;48695362 said:


> There is a story about Rush having an incident with a Arena Mexico parking lot staff member. You can read here
> 
> It says Rush nearly bitch slapped the guy into a coma. Not really that but Rush did hurt the guy enough that his doctors suspect a possible vertebrae fracture. Because the lot attendant would not let his wife come in against orders not to let anyone in.
> 
> It happened some time ago and was kept quiet untill guy got that diagnosis.












Sounds more like a lame hair pulling scrap and then some ambulance chaser talked the guy into suing, since the guy had no visible injuries, they came up with the vertebrae damage, they say CMLL took the "victim" to the hospital they have a working agreement with and found nothing, but then went to a public hospital and they found the "cervical damage"

If Rush ends in jail, well, he can promise Charly Manson (they guy actually convicted for sending a couple cops to the hospital (and nearly the grave)) some booking favors in exchange of protection... >


----------



## amhlilhaus

I ♥ KEMONITO;48695362 said:


> Hell of a match. Cavernario and Titan put out one of the best CMLL matches of the year. Great heat in the match. A first fall fueled by machismo. Neither man wants to give in and use the ropes. There are some spectacular dives from Titan. One of which nearly ends in disaster. Both guys looked great. Would enhance viewing if you've watched both guys befrore. ****1/2
> 
> Cavernario had a bum knee at the time and still had a great match.
> 
> There is a story about Rush having an incident with a Arena Mexico parking lot staff member. You can read here
> 
> It says Rush nearly bitch slapped the guy into a coma. Not really that but Rush did hurt the guy enough that his doctors suspect a possible vertebrae fracture. Because the lot attendant would not let his wife come in against orders not to let anyone in.
> 
> It happened some time ago and was kept quiet untill guy got that diagnosis. Don't mess with Rush.





xsw said:


> I ♥ KEMONITO;48695362 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a story about Rush having an incident with a Arena Mexico parking lot staff member. You can read here
> 
> It says Rush nearly bitch slapped the guy into a coma. Not really that but Rush did hurt the guy enough that his doctors suspect a possible vertebrae fracture. Because the lot attendant would not let his wife come in against orders not to let anyone in.
> 
> It happened some time ago and was kept quiet untill guy got that diagnosis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds more like a lame hair pulling scrap and then some ambulance chaser talked the guy into suing, since the guy had no visible injuries, they came up with the vertebrae damage, they say CMLL took the "victim" to the hospital they have a working agreement with and found nothing, but then went to a public hospital and they found the "cervical damage"
> 
> If Rush ends in jail, well, he can promise Charly Manson (they guy actually convicted for sending a couple cops to the hospital (and nearly the grave)) some booking favors in exchange of protection...
Click to expand...

I love both those guys, titan pulling out cavernario spots was awesome, and the finish told a great story: don't use another guys moves, he might be better at doing them than you.

Hope nothing happens to rush, he's my favorite luchador


----------



## Rah

Rush/Hechicero and Dragon Lee/***** Casas coming up this month! :cheer:


----------



## USAUSA1

I am hearing great things about the Flamita/Rey Horus match. I need to catch up on my lucha this weekend.

Check out Dorian Roldan and Court Bauer MLW interview. Dorian is one of the leaders of the present and future of pro wrestling.

Lucha World Cup will air on Televisa in the future.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

USAUSA1 said:


> I am hearing great things about the Flamita/Rey Horus match. I need to catch up on my lucha this weekend.


This is as close to a full match thats out there without paying for it. Match looks insane.


----------



## xsw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/602229262691729409
Brackets are ready!! It seems they'll manage to have a full house, but it might make AAAmania a harder sell with this show being pretty expensive for lucha standards and 'mania a couple of months away (maybe it won't be in Mexico City? :surprise

My guess is that Dream Team beats TNA in the finals, with Mundo taking the fall to protect the TNA dudes. DT vs ROH in semis, the other one probably All Japan vs TNA. Maybe Rest of the World vs TNA will go to sudden death and Galloway will take the fingerpoke of doom if the Victoria sponsor people is a mark of the nWo era :shrug


----------



## Rah

Patron beating Mundo in the final would be a cool point, considering their current LU feud.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

The DT win seems certain, but it seems strange to build this event around a show that is not even airing in that country. Mundo winning the decisive overtime fall over Misterio would set up the big Verano de Escandalo AAA show. The DT/TNA final would have major heat because, the US/MEX rivalry. That being said, it would look ridiculous if Team TNA wins and TNA falls apart.


----------



## Flawless Victory

Looked around, kinda disappointed there isn't a thread about this. This is going to be an amazing show. Just thinking about the potential match ups has me :mark: I mean we could end up seeing ACH vs. Mysterio, Drew vs. Alberto, Angelico vs. Rey, Suzuki vs. Alberto/Rey or Mundo. I'm legit excited about this show. Don't really care for the TNA/Lucha Underground team though. I like Mundo, but I'd replace Hardy and Anderson with Roode and Aries. I also wanted to see Ricardo Rodriguez and Carlito on one of the teams. I would replace Solar and Blue Demon Jr. with them. I hope this event is a success and we can get guys like Roddy Strong, and Jay Lethal involved. Alberto just did an interview with Court Bauer and said he "wants to take Roddy everywhere with him" so hopefully we can see that happen.


----------



## USAUSA1

I think the DT will face the legends in the finals.


----------



## kimino

It would be nice for legendas team to make it to the final, since even when the rest of the team are spectacular, Mexican fans really dig old school technical wrestling. If only AAA and CMLL would make a ceasefire treaty, imagine the quality of a CMLL legends team, ***** Casas, Virus, Blue Panther/Atlantis.

But in other hand Drew vs Alberto is a must happen, and if it isnt in this place when, i bet they woud "friendly" tear each other apart


----------



## xsw

Leyends need to go out in the first round, don't risk the crowd turning on DT in favor of the leyends. I guess Int. team might make it to the finals if Drew gets the pins and Mundo jobs to TNA, Drew vs Patron and Mesias vs Patron might be things for AAA in the future, but Mundo should be having priority now. I guess All Japan beats Leyends, and they play faces vs TNA in the semis, or TNA gets nuclear heat beating Leyends.

Funny thing that 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago, the Mexicans would have gone doing crazy stuff hoping to impress foreigners, and now it is probably to Moose, ACH and the smaller Japanese to provide the crazy stuff... :shrug


----------



## kimino

xsw said:


> Leyends need to go out in the first round, don't risk the crowd turning on DT in favor of the leyends. I guess Int. team might make it to the finals if Drew gets the pins and Mundo jobs to TNA, Drew vs Patron and Mesias vs Patron might be things for AAA in the future, but Mundo should be having priority now. I guess All Japan beats Leyends, and they play faces vs TNA in the semis, or TNA gets nuclear heat beating Leyends.
> 
> Funny thing that 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago, the Mexicans would have gone doing crazy stuff hoping to impress foreigners, and now it is probably to Moose, ACH and the smaller Japanese to provide the crazy stuff... :shrug


Well lets see what it turns out to be, maybe they will center their thoughts just in the event and not in the aftermatch in other promotions, so it can lead to some surprises, but seriously, dont see DT not winning this one, hell even i want to predict Mysterio winning for DT.


----------



## squeelbitch

so excited for this lucha libre world cup


----------



## Vårmakos

Kotoge barely did anything.


----------



## squeelbitch

vampiro's commentary tonight is some of the funniest shit i've ever heard on a wrestling show, just epic.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Vintage AAA. big mixup with the roh/aaa match. Cage pins Texano twice.


----------



## kimino

Lets hope Vampiro sober up when we get to the final so we can have a serious commentary, but yeah this shit is amazing


----------



## squeelbitch

I ♥ KEMONITO;48980978 said:


> Vintage AAA. big mixup with the roh/aaa match. Cage pins Texano twice.


i think the ref genuinely fucked up due to the language barrier


----------



## Flair Shot

Fuck Team AAA already out, this sucks. Epic event though.


----------



## Vårmakos

You would think they would fix the audio problem three matches in.


----------



## squeelbitch

surely cage squashing texano wasn't planned


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I've been having trouble here due to a storm. So I'm not able to see the entire event clearly. This show so far has looked like a top tier show. Camera work has been great. Crowd is good. Striker is annoying but still like it.


----------



## Miguel De Juan

I think the Texano thing was planned. The ref can speak English.
World Lucha Libre Cup has had bit Wrestle Kingdom 9 and Wrestlemania feel to it. Excellent production on the Spanish feed.


----------



## Vårmakos

based galloway


----------



## Flawless Victory

Vampiro's outbursts are killing me Lmao


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

awesome match. Galloway/Mundo 1st sudden fall


----------



## kimino

Loved the match, but no more Drew vs Patrón

also wonder how well this team is gonna mix with legendas teams


----------



## Flair Shot

The booking of this show is kinda weird, but it's still a really fun event to watch.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I am surprised the teams haven't fought within eachother. They all seem to get along...For now.


----------



## Flawless Victory

Damn, I wanted to see Drew vs. Alberto. That was definitely the best match so far.


----------



## Vårmakos

Was that Moose's first clean loss?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

ROH/DT was really good too. I do not like this Moose guy.


----------



## kimino

Solar is a MAESTRO


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

They are going to 5 min sudden fall singles matches to determine a winner for 3rd. Will rotate order if no winner within 5 mins.


----------



## Flawless Victory

Vårmakos said:


> Was that Moose's first clean loss?


No, he just lost recently in ROH but I can't remember to who.

Edit: ACH is really hamming it up.
I'm surprised Alberto isn't wearing the mega championship.
Anyone else think Jarrett might cost the dream team the match because of Alberto getting in his face and calling him a bitch.
Vampiro and Stryker are GOLD!!


----------



## MTheBehemoth

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/602648417421152256
Yup.


----------



## kimino

I predict triple sudden death 1st mistico vs anderson, then mundo vs patron and finally rey vs matt


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Alberto el Patron vs Matt Hardy now.

Rey Mysterio vs Johnny Mundo is the last sudden death match probably will set their feud for Verano de Escandalo in June

and the PPV has lasted more than 4 Hours!


----------



## USAUSA1

That top rope pin was cool from Rey


----------



## USAUSA1

Rey look great tonight. Great show, Idk how aaa will top this.


----------



## kimino

USAUSA1 said:


> That top rope pin was cool from Rey


Dont know why but it was similar to Kassandro finisher


----------



## Miguel De Juan

Great show from AAA. I hope they do this again next year.


----------



## USAUSA1

They have verano de escandalo next, Ultima Lucha and then triplemania all this summer. Summer of AAA


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Texano and Fantasma hugging Alberto. wtf! and lol Mysteziz bowing to the Japanese guys.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

i hope next year they have more promotions in Lucha Libre World Cup, This Year's Show was great!!


----------



## USAUSA1

I think ach loves Mexico.


----------



## kimino

Hope they host next one in Japan, poor NOAH and AJPW no wins, no awards


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I thought Mundo was most outstanding wrestler of the cup, but you know how these awards are handled.


----------



## USAUSA1

I ♥ KEMONITO;48984522 said:


> I thought Mundo was most outstanding wrestler of the cup, but you know how these awards are handled.


Mvp of LU as well. My favorite wrestler of the year so far.

Next year show should be done in L.A. if not in Mexico.


----------



## Flawless Victory

One of the best shows I've ever seen. Slight audio issues, but I understand Spanish so it's cool. 4hrs and 21 minutes from beginning to end. Incredible. Can't wait for next year, and I hope to see some different guys. Thought Mundo should've won best wrestler. My hubby thought ACH was being a little disrespectful while dancing on stage while getting his medal. He pointed out that Alberto looked kinda pissed at that. I didn't notice. Also Vampiro might just be my favorite announcer. Dude had me rolling all night.


----------



## xsw

Well, it seems that Victoria thought of the event last February, which included CMLL, and they were able to pull it out. It would seem it was successful enough for them to run the cup next year. The referee botchs actually make it look like a real world cup, since 80% of a soccer wc game is bashing the refereee :grin2:

I could see them running it in California or Texas if they wanted to make it a 3 day event or something, which would be needed if they add teams to the event. San Jose, San Diego and L.A. or San Antonio, Houston and Dallas, something like that, or in Japan, who knows. 

Add, Puerto Rico, Canada, Great Britain, LU, Dragon Gate, European team, maybe another AAA team and another Mex. indy team. Day 1, 4 matches in a round of 16, day two the second part, final day the event as the first cup occurred. First 2 days would probably need to include a women's cup and a young lions cup for day 2 or something... :surprise:


----------



## SabreWulf

Can someone post the results of the show. Winners and any match highlights.


----------



## Rah

Copied from Cubsfan



Spoiler: World Cup results



) Alberto el Patrón, Myzteziz, Rey Mysterio Jr. b Atsushi Kotoge, Taiji Ishimori, Takayama [quarterfinal]
Mistica on Ishimori
2) ACH, Brian Cage, Moose b Hijo del Fantasma, Psycho Clown, Texano Jr. [quarterfinal]
finish went awry here, with it appearing ROH-LU had won (Cage powerbomb on Texano), AAA had won (Texano beating Cage) and a time limit draw all within the same ten seconds. They evetually ruled time limit draw, with Cage and Texano replaying the last minutes of the match in a quick overtime, won by Cage.
3) Blue Demon Jr., Dr. Wagner Jr., Solar I b Kenzo Suzuki, Masamune, Tiger Mask III [quarterfinal]
Demon submitted Masamune.
4) Johnny Mundo, Ken Anderson, Matt Hardy b Angélico, Drew Galloway, El Mesías [quarterfinal]
Another time limit draw, with Mundo beating Galloway with a slightly misaimed Fin de Mundo in the first OT. Fans were toughest on this match, since there was no Mexican team, but the luchadors got them into it by the end
5) Alberto el Patrón, Myzteziz, Rey Mysterio Jr. b ACH, Brian Cage, Moose [semifinal]
Alberto was stuck in the ring with the ROH-LU guys for a long time near the end, but eventually submitted Moose to the armbar with about 40 seconds left.
6) Johnny Mundo, Ken Anderson, Matt Hardy b Blue Demon Jr., Dr. Wagner Jr., Solar I
shortest match of the tournament, with Mundo beating solar.
7) ACH, Brian Cage, Moose b Blue Demon Jr., Dr. Wagner Jr., Solar I [third place]
They jumped straight to OT rules; show was well over 3 hours by this point. ACH nearly beat Demon with a 450 splash but time ran out in OT1. Cage beat Wagner clean in OT2, and Wagner was stretchered out with a neck injury.
8) Alberto el Patrón, Myzteziz, Rey Mysterio Jr. b Johnny Mundo, Ken Anderson, Matt Hardy [final]
time limit draw, then OT draws with Myteziz/Anderson and Alberto/Matt. Rey Misterio Jr. won it by beating Mundo via top rope headscissors roll with about 20 seconds left. Rey dedicated the win to Perro Aguayo Jr.

Angelico was awarded the best dive of the night for his over the ringpost tope con giro. The Dream Team trio won best trio, and Rey Mysterio won MVP. (There was no announcement of hold of the night.) The top three teams all got medals.


----------



## xsw

It seems it will air in Mexico this Sunday, if I had to guess, a 2 hour show, probably just the semis and final, to help building for Verano de Escandalo. Since it is a Victoria show, it probably won't make it to the AAA youtube channel. The On Demand stream is supposed to run just for a week, so it might be the only way to watch the full show. 

Vampiro and Striker were worth the iPPV by themselves >, but it is really unairable for regular tv, they probably should had used Savinovich and Striker for English commentary.


----------



## xsw

En Busca de un Idolo - 
Team Virus
Boby Zavala, Esfinge, Disturbio,Flyer

Team ***** Casas
Canelo Casas, Blue Panther Jr.,Guerrero Maya Jr., Delta

Will have the matches live on Terra starting June 5.


----------



## Rah

I've been so far behind on any lucha libre so I can't offer much comment, but how is the En Busca looking this year? You guys looking forward to it? I think we were spoilt last year with such great talents (Dragon Lee, Hechicero and Cavernario in one bracket!) so this year looks a bit flat. I'm saddened that Cachorro isn't getting his brother's spot, but Guerrero Maya Jr is good enough to guarantee at least a couple decent matches. Hopefully he gets to go against Virus and Casas. Virus/Dragon Lee relampago from a recent show was pretty cool. I need to make more time for Rush and Hechicero, though. Speaking of!!!


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

This year's lucha idol doesn't look as good as last year. Flyer is possibly the only true breakout from this lot. Maya and Zavala are favorites to win it. I'm most looking forward to Tirantes cutting a promo on everybody. If you understood spanish you would think he's an all-time great promo. Not going to go out of my way to watch it live, probably will stick to cubsfan uploads. Will try to catch the first one live and see what they have.

There is a Flamita/Bestia vs Volador/Titan clip floating around too.


----------



## Rah

Closer cam, with the first 4 minutes captured


----------



## MarkovKane

I've been behind Raw solidly for a good 2-3 years now, with solid full WWE following since the Network. I am lazy so it is nice having everything in one place.

Well, since I got Network I got more and more interested in development. When I get bored or pissed, I look for stuff I like. Well what started as rewatching and following NXT exclusively with a passion, turned into me learning of TNA and ROH.

Coincidentally, in my laziness to have everything in 1 spot, almost 1 month to the day I started watching TNA, both ROH and TNA go to same channel. I didn't realize over the last 3 years I could have watched old wrestlers I liked back in the day.

As for Lucha, when I learned that there was more than WWE on daily cable, I DVR'd every single one I could find. I am an El Rey channel advocate, but I didn't start watching Lucha Underground until 1-2 weeks ago. I like it a lot.

I am 1 person who personally believes in both Lucha Dragons and Los Matadores. I knew they could put on 1 hell of a show. Between them and Lucha Underground, the only one I have watched is that one, Rey Mysterio's match where that guy died.


----------



## MarkovKane

I have so many Spanish channels, I never thought to look for the lucha libre. I didn't realize that Lucha Libre was broadcasted. I am still getting into the non-wwe stuff. 

But instead of just searching wrestling, I searched Lucha, and found that the LAS Channel has a show tomorrow, I'll probably check it out.


----------



## MarkovKane

I found so many Lucha shows by searching it on my TV. So for 3 of them, the Puerto Rico one, CMLL de Lucha Libre and the one on LAS channel.


----------



## Rah

Just gonna leave these here


----------



## Corey

Came across this on Twitter and it caught my eye. Can't find much info about it other than what the booker (Sam Adonis) is posting on his Twitter, but he's saying it will stream on WWNLive on June 27th and that Roderick Strong vs. CJP is also on the card. You guys know anything else about this?


----------



## Rah

All I've seen about it is what you know. [USER]Concrete[/USER] has witnessed CJ Parker live, on the indies, so he can give an account of how great/shit he is but Roddy/CJP and brother match King/Wagner ain't getting any of my money. Sounds pretty awful, tbh.


----------



## Corey

Rah said:


> All I've seen about it is what you know. [USER]Concrete[/USER] has witnessed CJ Parker live, on the indies, so he can give an account of how great/shit he is but Roddy/CJP and brother match King/Wagner ain't getting any of my money. Sounds pretty awful, tbh.


CJP vs. Mike Bailey was actually my favorite match from BOTB this year so he's on good terms with me right now.  I actually liked his heel work and I've got to imagine that he and Roddy would be able to pull out a good match. I know nothing about the Wagner/King match but just the idea of them doing it in the U.S. sounds nifty to me. Don't ask me why. From what I've seen, the other names on the show so far are your typical Florida indy guys. Lince Dorado, Los Ben Dejos, and some guy named Mr. 450.


----------



## Concrete

Is Sam Adonis THE Sam Adonis who works Dean Allmark occasionally in the UK? Can't imagine it is but if it were...OMG! Roderick Strong is probably in the midst of one of the best years in his career and CJP is pretty darn good so I'd expect that to deliver on some front. 

Rah, if those matches are clipped I will be reporting you. 

ALSO, this...this is the card we should be talking about probably.


----------



## Rah

> Rah, if those matches are clipped I will be reporting you.












I ain't give no fuck


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

2015 Leyenda de Plata cibernetico HD 2015-05-30 

Really good cibernetico. Niebla Roja performs a sick counter for a Titan dive. The crowd finally turns on Dragon Lee. Very surprising to see that. I wouldn't mind him being in the Ingobernables group. But CMLL doesn't move things quick enough to pull it off. Gotta catch some IWRG, the cards have looked good recently.

The recent AAA show featured a straight 25 min block of interviews. Which might be how they are planning to do things in the future. It felt like watching a Raw. You might get a kick out of the Demon vs Chessman for the Americas Title. Was a fun/screwy match.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Imposible © vs Leo for the IWRG Intercontinental Lightweight Championship ****

This is a great match. Fitting for a title match. We rarely get to see matches that make each of the 3 falls matter like this one. Recommended viewing. Leo and Teelo are the better half of the Ninja Turtles from what I have seen.

So watching the Rush vs Hechicero. I got really strong Atlantis/"good guy" vibes from Hechicero. I watch some of his interviews and he seems like a stand-up guy with not an evil bone in his body...so why is he a rudo? Just to be controversial? rudo hand needed? He never really pounds on a guy or shows that extra degree of viciousness or takes short cuts. I think he would make an excellent top tier tecnico.


----------



## xsw

I ♥ KEMONITO;49354361 said:


> So watching the Rush vs Hechicero. I got really strong Atlantis/"good guy" vibes from Hechicero. I watch some of his interviews and he seems like a stand-up guy with not an evil bone in his body...*so why is he a rudo?* Just to be controversial? rudo hand needed? He never really pounds on a guy or shows that extra degree of viciousness or takes short cuts. I think he would make an excellent top tier tecnico.


Nowdays it seems tecnicos has to be some highflyer guy which Hechicero is not. He might be trying to take up the old Blue Panther role from the 90s and earlier, although BP had some tecnicos to work with (mainly Hijo del Santo) while Hechicero has no one (maybe Guerrero Maya jr). It kinda helps him to work with skinny tecnicos since some of his holds or moves are harder to pull with heavier opponents - and unlike in the indies, he can't take it to the mat in the current landscape.

I dunno what AAA episode you were saying, the one from 3 weeksish ago did look like Monday Night Raw, with Texano and Hijo del Fantasma opening the show with an inring promo, and then they had Evans/Ang. vs Secta, and then they ran in the main event and booked in the fly to take that main event from singles to 6 man tag...


----------



## USAUSA1

Did you guys hear about Brian Cage vs. Rush?


----------



## Rah

Uploaded the Cota/Casas apuesta from 1994. Apologies for the commercials.


----------



## Concrete

Rah said:


> Uploaded the Cota/Casas apuesta from 1994. Apologies for the commercials.


You apologize for commercials but not clipped matches? Unreal.


----------



## USAUSA1

I need to watch that match later. Thanks for the link

I thought this week AAA show main event was really fun. ADR/Fenix vs. Brian Cage/Mesias. Lucha Underground alumni's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPZ20SWzlN8

I like Holocausto, have potential.


----------



## xsw

That's last week's show, it seems this week they'll have the Lucha World Cup (which aired on canal 5 last week). Verano de Escandalo is coming up in 2 weeks, it will have a cage matchwith Evans and Angelico vs Cuervo and Escoria, not sure if it is double hair match, or last one in the cage loses the hair.:surprise:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/606606618437021696

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/607200695801024512
Orizaba is a big bullring (they did last year's Verano de Escandolo there)


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Bumping the thread with this.


----------



## Koyomi

I hope to attend Verano de Escandalo, even though I had some bills to pay, so probably I'll get the cheapest tickets. xP


----------



## KicksToFaces!




----------



## Flair Shot

Does anyone know what the deal has been with Mascara Año 2000 Jr. this past year? he wasn't much on AAA tv and only recently started to appear again in backstage segments, was he injured or didn't they just have anything for him to do?


----------



## 3MB4Life

Anybody else going to the Lucha Future show at the Royal Albert Hall in London? Blue Demon Jr, Pentagon, Octangoncito, Sexy Star and La Parka scheduled to appear and it looks like it should be a great show.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

RKO361 said:


> Does anyone know what the deal has been with Mascara Año 2000 Jr. this past year? he wasn't much on AAA tv and only recently started to appear again in backstage segments, was he injured or didn't they just have anything for him to do?


I read he had a wrist injury and was healing that. AAA seemed to have a lot going on and in place before the tragedies happened. Now they got La Secta back, Blue Demon, LU talent..etc. Now he's in some cheesy love story line. 

CMLL's Busca de un idolo has been attrocious. With bad to barely passable matches/performances. The best thing to come out of it has been Tirantes cutting promos on everybody. God-like promos. Basically undressing and tearing those guys apart into pieces. He is untouchable on the microphone. 

Tirantes even suggested that they were wasting places in the competition and that they should be replaced with Minis or Female luchadoras. Which wouldn't be a bad idea if they did that. 

Flyer got it the worst. He was told to pack his stuff up and leave. Bad match and a lackluster effort. Here was the highlight










En busca de un idolo should get better but if it stays like this, it would be more entertaining. :grin2:


----------



## xsw

I only saw last year's En Busca. Don't wanna know how the first two went for people to think 2014 wast that great. It was good, but the format itself was a disappointment imo.

First, it is incredibly long. Like 40 matches or so. Then, the "trainers" have no reason to be there at all, they just stand there trying to look concerned or whatever. One never feels the guys learn anything from them. They would use a new move at times, but posting what youtube channel they "borrowed" the move would be more useful.p. And third, the judges, useless too. Yeah Tirantes might cut a good promo at times, but usually the other 3 is waste of time, and TIrantes comes out of character most of the time (gets booed because he's Tirantes). So it is a bloated mess.

Specific to 2014. It had no rudos. Barbaro and Hechicero are too busy trying to be cheered for them to be actual rudos. And Guerrero ***** Jr was so outsider and underdog (he quit CMLL before even ending the tourney) that he couldn't be taken seriously as a rudo. Bobby pretty much blew everyone out of the water in one match so far.

Most internet people were ready to hate the 2014 guys (except Hechicero), but guys stepped up. Zavala and Disturbio should be better as rudos this year, Delta and Guerrero Maya Jr, in theory should be as good or better than last year guys (they blew it bad in their first matches, but they can turn it around), so it is up for Flyer and Esfinge to step up. Last year, Soberano underperformed (although he was the only real rudo there), Star Jr and Barbaro also blew some spots badly just like we've seen so far, so there's still hope for this year - maybe the reason for having a gazillion matches is for them to lose the nerves and start performing at a higher lever. :shurg


----------



## amhlilhaus

I ♥ KEMONITO;49539569 said:


> I read he had a wrist injury and was healing that. AAA seemed to have a lot going on and in place before the tragedies happened. Now they got La Secta back, Blue Demon, LU talent..etc. Now he's in some cheesy love story line.
> 
> CMLL's Busca de un idolo has been attrocious. With bad to barely passable matches/performances. The best thing to come out of it has been Tirantes cutting promos on everybody. God-like promos. Basically undressing and tearing those guys apart into pieces. He is untouchable on the microphone.
> 
> Tirantes even suggested that they were wasting places in the competition and that they should be replaced with Minis or Female luchadoras. Which wouldn't be a bad idea if they did that.
> 
> Flyer got it the worst. He was told to pack his stuff up and leave. Bad match and a lackluster effort. Here was the highlight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> En busca de un idolo should get better but if it stays like this, it would be more entertaining. :grin2:


now that's entertainment!


----------



## Flair Shot

I had been out of the loop of AAA for a few years and when i began watching it again in early 2014, i noticed El Zorro now has a stick horse. Can someone explain to me how or why he got that thing now?


----------



## amhlilhaus

RKO361 said:


> I had been out of the loop of AAA for a few years and when i began watching it again in early 2014, i noticed El Zorro now has a stick horse. Can someone explain to me how or why he got that thing now?


uh, zorro needs a horse? duh


----------



## USAUSA1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/610263942145904641


----------



## Koyomi

Potato quality:

Both Mizteziz and Fenix left with injuries.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

amhlilhaus said:


> uh, zorro needs a horse? duh


They did a vignette with Zorro mopping the arena and looking like a bum. Some girl says "Hey!, I know you." Zorro is like " No, I'm not a wrestler.".."I don't know what you're talking about." 

Girl leaves frame and Zorro starts talking to his mop. Later turns into a horse. 

Volador vs Flamita (clipped) is up. Give and take kinda match. If you are looking for great selling, then this is not for you. The rematch should be better. To take place in LA.


----------



## Rah

Finally, all in one video. Give the guy a follow, he'll probably get to Flamita/Volador.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

A poor quality video of the AAA Verano de Escandalo Cruiserweight match and Cage match are up. Click on the words underlined. Warning: choppy and distorted audio. May be better to wait it out for better quality.


----------



## Rah

Super Luchas asks 55 luchadores if they'd wrestle Konan Big or not. There's some a-class burials going on there.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Rah said:


> Super Luchas asks 55 luchadores if they'd wrestle Konan Big or not. There's some a-class burials going on there.


Now that's absurd, knowing that there are many terrible luchadores around. I'd like for them to write about the stuck up old timers that never put anybody over or will not retire.

Konan Big is alright because he is a gimmick, a character. He has had some funny banter with Konnan about the Konan name. Claiming that Konnan is a fraud and he should pay royalties to his "compadre" Arnold Schwarzeneggar. Thats just one example of the shennanigans he pulls. It is funny to see guys get so offended by his shtick.


----------



## Rah

My favourite Konan Big moments had to be him doing a $2 tribute act to the Kaufman/Lawler feud, and his bloody feud with Neurosis (the apuesta is something else). Acting like king shit with some musicians on a balcony, dives off said balcony, and fighting off a lot of the Monterrey roster single-handedly... Konan Big's alright in my book. He's a terrible wrestler but he's never boring.




> I'd like for them to write about the stuck up old timers that never put anybody over or *will not retire*.


Weird men like me would be out of love for wrestling if they did. I'm almost saddened that Leyendas De Lucha Libre isn't airing via Lucha+ TV, anymore. Tinieblas Jr's ego-stroke booking FULL just isn't the same.


----------



## The Weeknd

Recommend me episodes of this pls, seen the first few episodes and a few matches on YouTube, bout to watch the recent one with the hour long Iron Man match banderas) and need more. Wish I had the El Ray network, I'd definitely watch this tbh


----------



## Corey

The Weeknd said:


> Recommend me episodes of this pls, seen the first few episodes and a few matches on YouTube, bout to watch the recent one with the hour long Iron Man match banderas) and need more. Wish I had the El Ray network, I'd definitely watch this tbh


Wrong thread, brother. You wanna be here: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/1085777-lucha-underground-el-rey-network.html


----------



## Rah

Some Chilanga Mask from this past Sunday











Kind of an extended Virus lightning match formula, that is shunted with Caifan's obligatory opening matwork spots (that are starting to grate me). Their rope-running work is none too exciting, either. It's a fine match, but this isn't the goodness it could have been. Dragon Lee/Virus lightnings have spoiled me a bit too much, I guess.


----------



## Steven Hardy

Steven Hardy vs King Scoby Gober TASW match

https://youtu.be/ts8Cd6wrDEg


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

CMLL have announced a HAIR VS. HAIR between Ultimo Guerrero vs Rey Escorpion for JULY 17.

Its recently returning Rey Escorpion that will likely lose, to set UG up for his big fued with Rush. Its not a hot program. UG/Rush was gaining mommentum but Rush got injured. Now they go back to this. Seems a bit out of the blue. If they did this to cover up the awful Idolo tournament then LOL.

This indy trash wrestler Pagano is being elevated to work mostly main events all over the country. The exclusivity between indy promotions and ego must be a problem if they're recurring to use Pagano as a top star.


----------



## xsw

I think Dr Lucha was saying at the time of Rush injury that Ingobernables were not drawing anyway so the UG vs Rush feud was prolly leading nowhere and I doubt they'll try it again in the near future, with Ingobernables being busy being buried by Shockrates and Casas -no wonder they're never became draws fpalm 

Lets not take the hair match for granted, there's enough CMLL informas left for people to crash the show and demand being included in the main event.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I randomly came across this little gem. Proximo VS Juventud 2000 from RLI promotion. It features 2 young guys trying to make their names in a Extreme Lucha match. One guy is alot better than the other. It starts off weak and gets better, climaxing with a series of high risk aerial moves. I liked it enough that I'm going to keep track of this kid Proximo.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO




----------



## Rah

Assume this is the match the photo is from


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

AAA have finally announced date,building, and time for TriplemaniaXXIII. Starts at 5:00 pm central time at the same arena as last year, on August 9. 

They avoid going up against WWE Summer Slam. That seems to be what they wanted. Cage vs Patron seems to be the championship match. The rest should be the usual multi person matches with the belts on the line. Maybe a big cage match with all the upper carders and Johnny Mundo? something like that. There is no big apuesta match they can target on. Don't think they'll pull the trigger on Averno/Mysteziz yet.

Something I caught during a Rey Mysterio interview was that there were plans for him to do a mask match at the biggest Arena in America, Estadio Azteca. A building with a capacity of over 100,000 people. He insinuated that plans changed after Perro Jr. died. And that possibly he could still work a mask match vs Pentagon Jr. I'll have to find the video. But to make that match work and fill that stadium, Perro would have to have gone over Mysteziz first. Just speculating, but that could have been the plan. Maybe Mysteziz would have left AAA after that and gone back to CMLL to his old gimmick. 

Regarding LA Park. There is a post match interview where he puts over Rush. Then proceeds to compare making Rush bleed to recieving a facial. (feeling warmth on your forehead) Very strange that he would know what it feels like. Interviewer mentions Rush wants to face you for the mask. Park seemed startled and brushed it off. Rush has put over Park on all his interviews. Pretty much is a mark for him. If only he could convince Paco Alonso....


----------



## cablegeddon

I ♥ KEMONITO;49946849 said:


> I randomly came across this little gem. Proximo VS Juventud 2000 from RLI promotion. It features 2 young guys trying to make their names in a Extreme Lucha match. One guy is alot better than the other. It starts off weak and gets better, climaxing with a series of high risk aerial moves. I liked it enough that I'm going to keep track of this kid Proximo.


That was sad I could only stomach the first 5 minutes. I loved Juventud in the 90s. I always thought he was the best luchador in WCW and therefore probably the best luchador in the 90s. 

The ref looks like he belongs in the pizzeria


----------



## Rah

Juventud Dos Mil (2000) is another, Hidalgo-based wrestler. He isn't Juventud Guerrera.

EDIT: unless that's another Juventud 2000, as the one I know debuted many years ago.




I ♥ KEMONITO;49940489 said:


> This indy trash wrestler Pagano is being elevated to work mostly main events all over the country. The exclusivity between indy promotions and ego must be a problem if they're recurring to use Pagano as a top star.


He worked main event against Nicho el Millionaro on the latest Chilanga Mask. Imagine how trash that match must have been :lmao




I ♥ KEMONITO;50092177 said:


> AAA have finally announced date,building, and time for TriplemaniaXXIII. Starts at 5:00 pm central time at the same arena as last year, on August 9.
> 
> They avoid going up against WWE Summer Slam. That seems to be what they wanted. Cage vs Patron seems to be the championship match. The rest should be the usual multi person matches with the belts on the line. Maybe a big cage match with all the upper carders and Johnny Mundo? something like that. There is no big apuesta match they can target on. Don't think they'll pull the trigger on Averno/Mysteziz yet.
> 
> Something I caught during a Rey Mysterio interview was that there were plans for him to do a mask match at the biggest Arena in America, Estadio Azteca. A building with a capacity of over 100,000 people. He insinuated that plans changed after Perro Jr. died. And that possibly he could still work a mask match vs Pentagon Jr. I'll have to find the video. But to make that match work and fill that stadium, Perro would have to have gone over Mysteziz first. Just speculating, but that could have been the plan. Maybe Mysteziz would have left AAA after that and gone back to CMLL to his old gimmick.
> 
> Regarding LA Park. There is a post match interview where he puts over Rush. Then proceeds to compare making Rush bleed to recieving a facial. (feeling warmth on your forehead) Very strange that he would know what it feels like. Interviewer mentions Rush wants to face you for the mask. Park seemed startled and brushed it off. Rush has put over Park on all his interviews. Pretty much is a mark for him. If only he could convince Paco Alonso....


Perro/Rey would have been an interesting sell. Rey's a massive draw but Perro's Perro and you know he's going to go over anyone they put in an apuesta against him. He's already walked through Los Hermanos, Dandy and Casas. Interesting dynamic because Rey is still a fresh face to AAA and such a big name that you'd wonder if he'd be the first guy to stop Perro's streak. In the long haul, I would doubt it, Rey'd put over the younger guy, but that's a match I would have loved to see. I was thinking of Perro the other night, and how lucha needs someone like him, but the reality that we lost out of Rey/Perro hurts. I don't care what WWE are trying to do to set record numbers for Wrestlemania 32, nothing would come close to the aura of Perro/Rey.


----------



## USAUSA1

I think AAA is confident in the Triplemania brand. They feel they can do 18,000 off the name alone and probably can. I was not shock they kept the date quiet for so long. I am wondering if it was cheaper to booked the show a month away instead of earlier for the building?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/619668883335720961
Rey Mysterio Vs Myzteziz will be your Triplemania main event. It is being promoted as a dream match. Tecnico vs Tecnico. People don't want either guy to turn. I still think Cage vs Patron is for the belt is on. 

Its an interesting matchup that people are intrigued by. They are not going with Averno/Myzteziz which is surprising. That has more behind it than anything in AAA right now. The fued has been touring all across Mexico on spot shows and the 2 have a history. Obviously Averno being a trios champ interferes with plans.

CMLL has a big show on JULY 17. Headlined by Rey Escorpion vs Ultimo Guerrero : CABELLERA VS CABELLERA (for the hairs) rest of card not in yet


----------



## Vårmakos

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/619725353729130496
Sounds like it's going to be Hair vs. Hair for Alberto/Cage.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

CAGE VS PATRON CONFIRMED HAIR VS HAIR
http://luchalibreaaa.com/noticiasaa...cabelleras-en-juego-en-triplemanía-xxiii.html

Pretty much summarizes why by stating Cage was the first to make Alberto bleed. Alberto not having some foreigner come to "his" country and claim superiority. Megachampionship not mentioned at all. 

Now I'm expecting a plethora of multi-person matches as they usually do on the big shows. Just cram them all in.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Caught up on some CMLL and thought these were better than the rest.


Ángel de Oro, Atlantis, La Máscara vs Dragón Rojo Jr., Hechicero, Pólvora 2015-06-30 @ Arena México ***3/4+






Classic tecnicos vs rudos trios. Starts with the mandatory mat wrestling. Hechicero makes Angel de Oro with a good exchange early. Once Atlantis gets in, his leyenda status is quickly exemplified. Making quick work of Hechicero. La Mascara doesn't play up the Ingobernables gimmick in this one, but he does do his stripper gimmick. After all he was one. Rudos see their opening and turn the match into a brawl. Everyone treats Atlantis delicately as trying not to injure him. Great trios vaguely hindered by Grand Dad Atlantis. Tecnicos get back in it to make it dramatic. This is a prime example of psychology in lucha for those who don't get it.

Astral, Eléctrico, Shockercito vs Demus 3:16, Pequeño Nitro, Pequeño Olímpico 2015-06-02 @ Arena Coliseo Guadalajara ***3/4+






Really good Minis trios. Starts with a great tecnical first fall. Demus shines and stands out as a character throughout. By providing some comedy and personality to the match. Electrico pulls out an insane rana from the top rope to foil Demus who had perched him beforehand. and there's Shockercito who is very quick. Olimico is one of the oldest active minis around. Same dynamic with Atlantis minus the Legend status.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

INCREDIBLE MATCH ****1/2
Dragon Lee (c) vs Kamaitachi ARENA PUEBLA July 13 2015 

As good as their Mask match. It starts out hot. The circumstances allow for it. They go straight into eachother in a feverish pace. One trying to not be outdone by the other. It goes on untill one gets the upperhand and hits his finish. These two work very well together. Most of the match is the third fall. Another excellent match for Dragon Lee this year. 


STARTS @ 1:22:00


----------



## amhlilhaus

It's weird to see the guys from lucha underground being treated as fools on aaa tv. Saw pentagon, Mesias and Mundo embarrassed by mysteziz, Rey Jr and LA parka.

You'd think they'd present them a little better


----------



## USAUSA1

Its Rey Jr, Myzteziz and La Parka. Nobody have a chance.


----------



## amhlilhaus

USAUSA1 said:


> Its Rey Jr, Myzteziz and La Parka. Nobody have a chance.


It's just weird seeing them like that. On the bright side Pentagon was in a main event


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I missed the CMLL show featuring the hair match. People in the arena were doing the Periscope buisiness and you could actually watch the entire event through their stream. It is noted that Blue Panther jr. no showed and Hechicero worked Delta to fill in. Did everything in his power to put Delta over. Not even Hechicero can save him. What a terrible tournament it has been. Do not watch it. Stay away from it as if it were a Island death match.

Also confimed for Triplemania is a Villano III retirement match. He will be in a trios. VIllanos III IV V vs Psycho Circus

Its good that they give him a spot on the big show to do this. Should probably get into AAA HOF the same night. Match should be ok. I don't think it will be the last match ever for him. Legendary top 25 luchador.


----------



## USAUSA1

Liking Triplemania card so far but worry about ADR.


----------



## Vårmakos

CMLL's weekly monday stream starts today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpM-d93r_LQ


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Vårmakos said:


> CMLL's weekly monday stream starts today:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpM-d93r_LQ


Here is the card

GRAN FUNCIÓN PARA FESTEJAR EL 62 ANIVERSARIO DE LA CATEDRAL DE LA LUCHA LIBRE EN PUEBLA

MARCO CORLEONE, RUSH® Y MÁXIMO®
vs
EUFORIA, TERRIBLE Y REY BUCANERO

LUCHA SEMIFINAL
*MÁSCARA CONTRA MÁSCARA*
LESTAT
vs
KING JAGUAR

ÁNGEL DE ORO®, BLUE PANTHER Y EL VALIENTE®
vs
MEPHISTO®, LUCIFERNO Y EPHESTO®

TERCERA LUCHA
FUEGO, TRITÓN Y STIGMA
vs
HECHICERO, OKUMURA Y BOBY ZAVALA

SEGUNDA LUCHA
STARMAN, METATRON Y REY SAMURAY
vs
REY APOCALIPSIS, TORO BILL JR. Y POLICE MAN

PRIMERA LUCHA
BLACK TIGER, ASTURIANO Y ARKALIS
vs
INQUISIDOR, CAMORRA Y EL CHOLO​
You never know what you'll get. Mask match should be good.


----------



## Lazyking

Triplemania to be live on USA and Canada PPV. Yes


----------



## famicommander

Lazyking said:


> Triplemania to be live on USA and Canada PPV. Yes


With English commentary, no less.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

*LOS INGOBERNABLES attack ringside fans*

Rush threw a drink on the crowd. Fans did the same back. Sombra got into it with the fans the most. Rush and Sombra are recorded kicking fans from ring. Pretty dispicable by LOS INGOBERNABLES to go after fans when their gimmick is to not care what they think. They were pulled away by crew. But kept coming back for more. Police eventually got inbetween them and calmed it down. 

Its great for their image, but really stupid of them to pick on fans.


----------



## Rah

As stupid as it was, Sombra's No Fucks Given front-roll up the ramp as they leave was glorious. :lmao


----------



## Vårmakos

Apparently, they have both been suspended.

Triplemania news:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/624749116556378114


----------



## Rah

Blue Panther vs Satanico happened last night, and a taste of it is already up on Youtube






Wait a week, or so, and you'll get the whole thing here.


----------



## Concrete

I mean, BTJr. sadi that son of a gun was a MOTYC so there's that.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Have you people seen @VivaDelRio 's tweets? He is threatening to beat up Myzteziz. In one tweet he demands Myzteziz brings backup from his hometown. Which is one of the roughest parts of Mexico City. That he would be needing it. 

Could be a hacker. Idiot Argos / Myzteziz ....... chimes in and mocks Alberto's tweets. He is going to pay for those words, hacked or not. Trying to get over on the company's #1 talent atm will not fly. Still waiting on more info. You never know because it all turns out to be a work anyways.


----------



## Rah

Spoiler: tweets in question















Are AAA known to make use of social media to drive storylines to this degree? It was only a matter of time before the bad blood between the two guys turned sour, again. 

On a better note, ChilangaMask announced the fifth match for their 18/06 show. Blue Panther vs Trauma II!!! Card already has Virus/Dr Cerebro so it's a can't miss event. Panther/Satanico also dropped early.


----------



## xsw

It doesn't read like Alberto at all, unless he forgot all his college studies and suddenly has the same writing skills as a 11 year old fanboy trolling in youtube...


----------



## kimino

LOL with Alberto on twitter way too personal insults with mistico, well not that the later once pointed him with a gun


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

That was the best version of Blue Panther that I've seen in a while. He has gotten lazy and relies on his status to carry his matches but not here vs Satanico. Who is one of the best all time. Great mat based match. What a maestros match is all about. I loved it.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Best of recent CMLL

CMLL en busca de un idolo tournament trios 
***** Casas,Guerrero Maya jr, Esfinge vs Virus,Bobby Zavala, Disturbio
2015-7-24 @ Arena Mexico ****

Really good trios. Featuring the en busca de un idolo participants. They are split into trios according to their teacher. A rare occasion in which we get to witness Casas vs Virus. For me Casas carries this match from being just another trios to what it is. You see how he turns it up, and how hard he works to make the his opponents. Esfinge is the only one with a questionable performance, only by the way the match is layed out. Everybody got a chance to shine. I can't wait for this tournament to be over so Virus and ***** can detach themselves from it.






Diamante Azul, Último Guerrero, Volador Jr. vs La Sombra, Rush, Thunder 
2015-07-03 @ Arena México ****1/2

Awesome trios match. This trios is composed to specifically advertise the current main event rivalries in CMLL. Match starts hot with intense before the bell brawling from all 6 men. Thunder is a huge bodybuilder type foreigner that CMLL are really keen on. He has potential but will take a lot of work, not to mention UG has apparently already called his masked. Here Thunder goes after UG. Who is amongst the most beloved talents in Arena Mexico currently. Volador and Sombra trade moves at the a diffrent pace then everybody, and Rush works his friend Diamante Azul. Action packed trios that delivers one of the best trios of the year. Volador and Sombra work seamlessly together throughout. Thunder does seem out of place for a moment but how does he not stick out? Overall a thriller you should watch.


----------



## USAUSA1

I refuse to believe Thunder can be in great matches lol.

Going to check out myzteziz vs averno after Ultima lucha tomorrow. Heard it was phenomenal.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Those sessions with Satanico are paying off. He will recieve attitude and diffrent treatment for being a foreigner so that can hurt his matches and is stupid. 

*
AAA TRIPLEMANIA CARD 
(SUN) 08/09/2015 Arena Ciudad de Mexico, Ciudad de México, Distrito Federal
TripleMania XXIII
1) Dinastía, Drago, Goya Kong, Pimpinela Escarlata vs Daga, Mamba, Mini Psycho Clown, Sexy Star
2) Averno, Chessman, Cibernético © vs Angélico, Fénix, Jack Evans and Hijo del Fantasma, Pentagón Jr., Texano Jr. [AAA TRIOS]
3) Blue Demon Jr. & La Parka vs El Mesías & Electroshock
Blue Demon 30th anniversary match
4) Villano III, Villano IV, Villano V vs Monsther Clown, Murder Clown, Psycho Clown
retirement matches for Villano III & Pepe Casas
5) Alberto el Patrón vs Brian Cage [hair]
6) Rey Mysterio Jr. vs Myzteziz
dream match*

Press confrence today hyped up the event. Myzteziz declared he would bring out his dark side for his match. Rey stated he would show everyone Myzteziz is an inferior copy of him. 

Villanos are cleared to lucha with their masks. Original plans for Blue Demon was to go against Wagner. Can't blame Demon for not wanting that, Wagner will take over a match if you give him an inch. 

Event is on PPV through Satelite/Cable providers in US/Canada $30 usd hd and $20 usd sd . Kinda funny that they charge that when Konnan burries TNA for charging extra for HD.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

CMLL's live stream show was on today at 9 pm central time. I should have posted a link sorry. Sombra vs Volador main that was excellent. Both guys decided to work tonight and put on their kind of match. Volador tried to set up a mask vs hair. Stream cut. ****1/2 

Cubsfan will get it when it airs, but like the Kamaitachi vs Dragon Lee it will be missing a couple minutes.


----------



## kimino

Saw on twitter that Niebla put the worst performance of the year, that bad was?


----------



## Stetho

I ♥ KEMONITO;51101274 said:


> CMLL's live stream show was on today at 9 pm central time. I should have posted a link sorry. Sombra vs Volador main that was excellent. Both guys decided to work tonight and put on their kind of match. Volador tried to set up a mask vs hair. Stream cut. ****1/2
> 
> Cubsfan will get it when it airs, but like the Kamaitachi vs Dragon Lee it will be missing a couple minutes.


So basically Volador is going to lose his hair after losing his mask against the same guy ? :aries2


----------



## Rah

Poor Volador. Just a couple years ago there were rumours of WWE being increasingly interested in signing him, life was looking up, and now he's apparently taking apuesta losses to pad his thinning bank account.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

kimino said:


> Saw on twitter that Niebla put the worst performance of the year, that bad was?


Yep, guys were trying to ignore him, but worked soft with him. He was moving slow. Possible its why Rush refused to go out and was replaced by Atlantis.

The mask/hair is not happening. Unless Sombra gets a WWE deal, and even then it wouldn't be a sure thing. A cage match is possible involving all the fueds of uppercard guys..another awful cage match.


----------



## kimino

Sooner or later CMLL will have to change his ways, its dying slowly, and i bet its gonna be a slow death since it has hardcore fans and old school lucha fans, the owner should just make a peace treaty with AAA, so we have CMLL guys in AAA and LU and AAA/LU guys in NJPW


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Volador jr vs Sombra is up via cmllofficial brothers


----------



## Koyomi

This is a great video for those not familiar with AAA


----------



## Stetho

kimino said:


> Sooner or later CMLL will have to change his ways, its dying slowly, and i bet its gonna be a slow death since it has hardcore fans and old school lucha fans, the owner should just make a peace treaty with AAA, so we have CMLL guys in AAA and LU and AAA/LU guys in NJPW


"CMLL just needs to get their head out of the 1980's..#BOOM "
Konnan in the reddit AMA :vince2


----------



## amhlilhaus

kimino said:


> Sooner or later CMLL will have to change his ways, its dying slowly, and i bet its gonna be a slow death since it has hardcore fans and old school lucha fans, the owner should just make a peace treaty with AAA, so we have CMLL guys in AAA and LU and AAA/LU guys in NJPW


I think rush in lu would be too much for me to handle.

Who's more stale and cautious, wwe or cmll?


----------



## kimino

amhlilhaus said:


> I think rush in lu would be too much for me to handle.
> 
> Who's more stale and cautious, wwe or cmll?


CMLL. They dont have storylines, just a rudo/técnico dynamic, that build for some time to end in a "lucha de apuestas". Its ok since the old fans and the hardcore fans that think "see wwe sucks this is real lucha" since CMLL has the best mat wrestling in the world and they also have they have more talent than everyone else. If they just let some of their guys wrestle other projects, lets say 2 or 3 times to fight in a AAA PPV or to let them participate in LU, that way talents like volador, sombra, cavernario, titan, dragon lee would be more renown But its slowly getting stale and stale, they have 2 main Arenas Coliseo, and Mexico. CMLL arneas they have a fixed number of fans, and its a tradition in those places to assist to a Lucha Libre show.

Another thing i like about CMLL is their respect (most of the time), for their Maestros, legends like Atlantis, Blue Panther, Virus, Dr Wagner, Villanos had their best time IMO in CMLL


----------



## Stetho

Myzteziz vs Averno has been uploaded somewhere yet ? The AAA youtube channel is all about Triplemania videos these days


----------



## Rah

Stetho said:


> Myzteziz vs Averno has been uploaded somewhere yet ? The AAA youtube channel is all about Triplemania videos these days


This match?


----------



## Stetho

Rah said:


> This match?


Probably, thank you ! There are so many videos on thecubsfan channel it's easy to lose what you're looking for.


----------



## amhlilhaus

Stetho said:


> Rah said:
> 
> 
> 
> This match?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably, thank you ! There are so many videos on thecubsfan channel it's easy to lose what you're looking for.
Click to expand...

The Cubs fan is my hero.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

When I saw Brian Cage in TNA a few years ago I didn't think he would be CO-headlining the biggest AAA event. There is absolutely no way I see El Patron losing but still cool!

Honestly, never really watched AAA, but LU has got me interested in some of the luchadores. Looks like a great card with some familiar faces so I will be purchasing the PPV. I don't know how much they are in Mexico, but $30 HD doesn't seem too bad. Hopefully the two main matches are on LU quality.


----------



## Stetho

The main AAA product clearly isn't as good as LU but I think they still deserve some support from english-speaking fans.


----------



## amhlilhaus

Stetho said:


> The main AAA product clearly isn't as good as LU but I think they still deserve some support from english-speaking fans.


I don't know about that, but it's the style. Traditional lucha imo has several flaws that make it so different from us wrestling it's hard for us fans to get it. 

The spots seem to be coming from a mile away. They usually work a slower pace so you can see them setting up elaborate spin into arm drag combos from last night. 

The booking makes no sense. Their matches are usually 2 out of 3 and the first 2 falls go by lightning quick, and the 3rd fall Is always longest. Kayfabe wise it should be harder to score pins or submissions when the guys are fresh.

The refs take away from the match. Wether it's a heel ref screwing the technico, or a 90 year old man taking 5 minutes to get in position to start a count, I hate lucha refs.

The babyfaces are booked way too strong. It's like they are all mini cenas, and the rudo only win by copious cheating. 

As for buying Triplemania to see lu guys, look up cubs fan uploads of their work in mexico, you might reconsidrr. Pentagon is nothing like his lu character, as is mesias. They're just weekly wobbles down there.


----------



## Stetho

Actually, AAA is not traditional lucha, good thing or bad thing, I don't know. 
Pentagon is not "nothing", he has good crowd reaction, the character is the same (obviously the show presentation is different so it's not exactly similar), he was number 2 or 3 in los Perros del Mal, he main evented Verano de Escandalo, he has 2 belts...


----------



## Rah

Maybe it's an unpopular opinion but lucha has so many added variables to lucha matches so when it's bad, it's really bad. These highly choreographed matches and spot-focused shitfests aren't true reflections of good lucha, though. They get a lot of praise or spread around because of how athletic guys can be. But a truly great lucha match is almost incomparable to anything else. Lucha bloodbaths are just so, so good and a heated feud can feel so real. Pirata Morgan drinking his opponent's blood and spitting it into the air like HHH does his water, Rush and La Sombra being absolute dicks and the Santo/Casas feud are just a few of MANY reasons why I love lucha. Casas/Santo is the very embodiment of why Lucha is so far from the stereotype people play it up to be.







I kept likening AAA to the TNA of Mexico when I first watched them. Bad wrestling, bad booking and bad wrestlers but they've done something no other promotion has done. While NJPW, CMLL and WWE are refusing to take a risk and try new talents or ventures (which hurts not only their product but financials, too), AAA has snapped up some phenomenal talents and started to build a great roster. CMLL has some of the best wrestlers in the world but never venture out of the same, tired trios or stale singles feuds. At least we got Rush/Casas, I guess. :side:



amhlilhaus said:


> Pentagon is nothing like his lu character, as is mesias. They're just weekly wobbles down there.











I suggest taking a look at the whole version of Arez/Pentagon. Black Terry Jr selected a lot of the moments where Arez was in control but, in reality, it was 22 minutes of straight murder.


----------



## BadTouch

Stetho said:


> The main AAA product clearly isn't as good as LU but I think they still deserve some support from english-speaking fans.


I actually prefer AAA to LU. I love the energy from the crowd and the commentary, really adds to the shows for me.


----------



## Corey

It's interesting because from an outsider's point of view (I still consider myself an outsider because I've seen large handfuls of Lucha but still haven't scratched the surface) I can totally agree with points both of you have made (@amhilhaus and @Rah). I've tried several times this year to watch some Lucha from 2015 and I just simply can't get invested in a lot of it. Whether it's the constant outside interference or shenanigans (or simply just the lack of a tighter structure in matches I've noticed in AAA), the first two falls sometimes feeling completely inconsequential, the disregard for selling and running through spots and sequence that sometimes feel 100% rehearsed, or just the fact that half of the time I have NO IDEA what the fuck is going on in those tag matches. Like seriously, I get so confused with trios matches sometime because it's one fall and then other times you have to pin all the members of the team or the captain or something? I don't fucking know. :lol

In regards to Rah's points, I completely agree about the bloodbath aspect of it. A lucha bloodbath is one of my absolute favorite things in all of wrestling. I'm not sure what it is about the sight of a luchador getting his mask slightly torn off while his face is covered in blood, but that just feels like the most historic and incredible thing to witness in wrestling. It'll never get old to me when it's done right. It just always feel like it's so important because of what's at stake most of the time (mask, hair, title, etc.). Villano III vs. Atlantis from 2000 might honestly be the greatest match I've ever seen for many of those same reasons.

Doing all this talking about it is getting me jazzed up to watch some Lucha (although Ultima Lucha probably has a big part in that too). 

You guys think you could recommend any matches from this year to check out? I prefer singles because the tags never have a structure I enjoy (everyone is always in the ring or doing whatever they want). Only things I think I watched in full was the Aerostar/Super Fly mask match and a couple earlier matches in the year from ***** Casas against Dorada & Maximo (which were alright but nothing memorable for me).

I see some folks are high on this Dragon Lee guy but I've never seen anything from him. Alberto & Brian Cage have wrestled a couple times but they've all been DQs or something right?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I see some folks are high on this Dragon Lee guy but I've never seen anything from him. Alberto & Brian Cage have wrestled a couple times but they've all been DQs or something right?


You have to acquire a taste. I can appreciate it all but there is some stuff I like more than others. Like Sombra/Volador can have these move for move sprints because they've built up that rivalry and at the peak of it they were known for putting on these athletic contests that were untouchable. Now they have these sprints trying to put away eachother with these feats of athleticism and not a kick to the eggs. Although it would blow my mind to see Sombra bloody Volador and get DQ'd in 2 straight falls. But CMLL does not allow blood. 

Dragon Lee is killing it right now. Also Volador is trying really hard to fill that vancancy Mistico left. I recommend some matches that happened recently if you run through earlier pages you will see some videos posted of lucha this year. 

AAA just hasn't recovered since the loss of Perro Jr. They are still moving pieces around and it appears that soon (mexican time) Pentagon Jr. will be the top rudo there. I think AAA is the favorite because the lack of Indy shows/matches make it online. They don't have to run the same building every week. They have tv deal. 

There is a lack of luchadores that brawl and can effectively make that style work right now. Nothing is that hot other than Rush vs LA PARK either. So were waiting on Pentagon's push to save us.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Stetho said:


> The main AAA product clearly isn't as good as LU but I think they still deserve some support from english-speaking fans.


So is AAA comparable to WWE, in the sense that NXT/ LU are more popular or better with the fan base?


----------



## amhlilhaus

Don't get me wrong, I like Lucha. I catch everything with rush, cavernario and psycho clown.

Pentagon might get a run as top rudo but he'll still get clowned continually, just the way they book the rudos


----------



## Stetho

WesternFilmGuy said:


> So is AAA comparable to WWE, in the sense that NXT/ LU are more popular or better with the fan base?


Sort of. But LU is really unique, it's hard to compare it to anything else.


----------



## USAUSA1

Nxt is not more popular than wwe and lu is not more popular than AAA. I love Ultima lucha but triplemania in the grand scheme of things is a bigger deal and more important for AAA and pro wrestling. Definitely a great time to be a fan of lucha libre.

Losing perro was huge but they haven't suffer business wise. Seems like they actually doing better than ever. Hopefully Pentagon get that top rudo spot but it looks like he is third in line at the moment.


----------



## Stetho

By "popular" he meant liked by the marks, not more widespread.


----------



## xsw

Lucha Underground has incredibly high production, and being new, they have tight booking and have avoided some politics, but it is the same stuff AAA AND CMLL have been doing for decades. AAA had Cibernetico winning a casket match and throwing Muerte Cibernetica to a volcano, it closed the season, next season Banderas returned as "El Mesias", they also had Ciber fighting Vampiro in a graveyard and Vampiro going "dark", but it was badly received and they made that "a dream" and wrote it out of canon. CMLL used to end their season mid December, and return by March. They had skits with Dr Wagner Jr working as a doctor, and having Emilio Charles show up as illusions in Wagner's mind, or a kitten morphing into Black Tiger, or Scorpio Jr and Bestia Salvaje consulting a witch for help... the list goes on and on...

Aguayo Jr had ran out of steam and by 2013 and they didn't even know what to do with him, he got a boost from Mysteziz coming back, and then El Patron and Rey Jr. I doubt he was willing to lose his hair since his ego was huge, so booking has not really seen a hit, and business is high because his death had a "Heath or Paul" effect. Neither AAA nor CMLL like to pay big bucks, at least not to locals, so they'll try to get away with no big stip match as long as they can, AAA sold out their 'mania with a somewhat normal show, so they're happy, business is good so they don't really feel they need to do anything, just let their stars to carry the company.


----------



## amhlilhaus

Cmll runs angles? Holy shit.

But come on, aaa just picked 2 matches and threw it out there with the confidence that it's mystique would draw, and it has.

Cmll is a sleeping giant. It has so many good talent it's not funny. Imagine a young, dynamic owner with those tools at their disposal? It'd be crazy


----------



## Flair Shot

Anyone know why Taya is not on the card for tonights Triplemania? She's the reigning Reina de Reinas Champion and was part of the Triplemania pressconference. Seems a bit odd to not have her included on the card in any form whatsoever.

EDit: NVM just found out she's leading the AAA tour in Colombia.


----------



## USAUSA1

Triplemania!!!!!!!


----------



## xsw

'mania predictions:

1- Dinastia and Mini Psycho should do good, they're better than the current Mascarita used in LU, tecnicos should win to get the crowd going.

2- Steek cage title match: Hell Brothers vs Angelico, Fenix, Evans vs Fantasma Jr, Texano and Pentagon Jr: Hell Brothers should win clean, hope they are smart enough to keep out of the way till the finish, we don't even know if it's a escape or pin or whatever match.

3- Villanos vs Psycho Circus: They need Villano III's "sons" to show up so they can take Clown's spots, will be mostly a brawl.

4- Blue Demon Jr and La Parka (jr) vs Mesias and Electro Shock. Mesias (Mil Muertes) is some kind of "Mr Tripleamania" so he has to pull some sort of miracle here... he won't. :surprise:

5- El Patron vs Brian Cage hair match. 

6- Mystezis vs Rey Misterio Jr, "dream match"

6 will end in some non finish? Jarret runs in? New stable takes over? It seems the plan is for Alberto to turn rudo eventually, but not just yet.


----------



## USAUSA1

We are watching history


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Is the IPPV only in Spanish?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I am expecting Jarrett to interfere in Alberto's match. I do expect Hell Bros. win because, Cibernetico's knees might give out if he climbs the cage. Should be a really fun show. The big question is, If Tirantes jr. will ruin the main event?


----------



## Vårmakos

Looking forward to Villanos/Psycho Circus the most. It has the potential to be the greatest train wreck brawl ever.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

WesternFilmGuy said:


> Is the IPPV only in Spanish?


Just go here http://internetvluchalibreaaa.com/ set up an account using an email for log in or facebook. Click the little USA flag button in the top right corner to get english version of site.

You pay for it, get to the stream player and there should be a language button/tab on the player so you can watch with english or spanish. Thats how its been in the past but I just got it through TV so idk if its the same today. Should be.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

I ♥ KEMONITO;51254818 said:


> Just go here http://internetvluchalibreaaa.com/ set up an account using an email for log in or facebook. Click the little USA flag button in the top right corner to get english version of site.
> 
> You pay for it, get to the stream player and there should be a language button/tab on the player so you can watch with english or spanish. Thats how its been in the past but I just got it through TV so idk if its the same today. Should be.


Yep. No english tab. I guess it's alright.


----------



## Deadman's Hand

*First time watching AAA in years. Looking forward to this show, especially considering the fact that a lot of my favorites from LU will be on this show.*


----------



## famicommander

They're having audio problems. No English commentary yet, intros for the first match are happening. Gonna be annoyed if I have to watch this whole show with no commentary.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

I have the English commentary. Awesome!


----------



## Deadman's Hand

*I'm having the English commentary.too.

Kinda sucks that Vampiro won't be calling the show with Matt Striker, though.*


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Decent opening.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Striker is the 4th man kissed by Pimpinela tonight.


----------



## Braylyt

Deadman's Hand said:


> *I'm having the English commentary.too.
> 
> Kinda sucks that Vampiro won't be calling the show with Matt Striker, though.*


I feel you. Is that because they're selling the Ciero Miedo match? Cause that would be an awesome move by AAA.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Villanos are up next. everybody bleeds.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Cool entrance.


----------



## Leon Knuckles

whats this purple barney the dinosaur looking ****** yelling about? :lmao


----------



## Deadman's Hand

Braylyt said:


> I feel you. Is that because they're selling the Ciero Miedo match? Cause that would be an awesome move by AAA.


*I would say yes, but they announced this commentary team a month or two ago.*


----------



## Leon Knuckles

my money on psycho clowns


----------



## Leon Knuckles

these guys are sucks


----------



## Braylyt

Deadman's Hand said:


> *I would say yes, but they announced this commentary team a month or two ago.*


Well they taped UL back in April I believe so it's possible. I watched the first match with Spanish commentary so idk if it's been mentioned already.w


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Hugo's audio is low.


----------



## Vårmakos

There's loud buzzing sound and the picture is occasionally flipping upside down. I like feel I'm watching a shitty VHS tape.


----------



## Deadman's Hand

Braylyt said:


> Well they taped UL back in April I believe so it's possible. I watched the first match with Spanish commentary so idk if it's been mentioned already.w


*I'm watching with English commentary, and they haven't said anything.

Also, the English commentary's been having audio issues since the very beginning of this show.*


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Psycho Clowns should have won. Pftt


----------



## Vårmakos

Did Matt Striker just make a reference to thigh-slapping? This is why he is awful.


----------



## Braylyt

This match was terrible. I was hoping they'd bring out weapons or at least brawl a little bit but this was just plain afwul.


----------



## Leon Knuckles

Can someone explain what is happening right now?


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

They are thanking the Villaino family for their service. Also thanking the referee who is going in the HOF I believe.

The lady in red is beautiful.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Good finish but no blood. Thats ok. Fans get to keep that image of the Villanos for the rest of time. I like how they are doing HOF segments spread out through the event.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Jack Evans in this match?

Sound went dead a little bit, but it's back.


----------



## Leon Knuckles

DRE AND SNOOP ENTRANCE MUSIC :dance


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Jack fucking Evans!


----------



## Deadman's Hand

*Pentagon fucking Jr.! :mark:*


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Hugo went dark for the last half hour. LOL


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Cage is sort of like ultimate x match. The beam in the middle is where the title belts are located. Winner must climb the cage and reach the middle of the beam to win the match. Some insane stuff could go down.


----------



## Vårmakos

These caged clusterfucks are never any good.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

What shit camera angle is that? Lol


----------



## Deadman's Hand

*What the fuck is going on with this feed?*


----------



## Leon Knuckles

I cant hear the bumps and slams in the ring. I can't hear the Huge guy. This audio is WOAT.


----------



## Vårmakos

Why couldn't it have been Striker's mic that got muted?


----------



## Leon Knuckles

FENIX ATTACKING HIS BROTHER PENTAGON :yoda


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Now Stryker is screeching. Really bad audio. Good match so far though.


----------



## Leon Knuckles

That finish was trash, to an otherwise good match.


----------



## Deadman's Hand

*The constant production problems fucked up this match for me.

Other than that, it seemed like a good match.*


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

So 3 matches left with 1.7 hours to go?


----------



## GREEK FREAK

Good match but too short. It should have went for another 10-15 min.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Now the Spanish Audio is combined with the English Audio. What the actual fuck?


----------



## Vårmakos

WesternFilmGuy said:


> Now the Spanish Audio is combined with the English Audio. What the actual fuck?


:lmao


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Abyss's brother!?!?!?!? Awesome!

He was in way better shape in the late 2000s


----------



## Leon Knuckles

Ring sound is better now but audio commentary is mute. :lmao


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

I have a feeling refund claims will be coming in. Even though it says 95% of the show, it's not good to have difficulties for half the show. It's too bad too.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Cage match was too short. Really could have benefited from more time and less people.


----------



## Vårmakos

im fucking dying at these quality issues, i cant even concentrate on the show.


----------



## Deadman's Hand

*Now the cameras are shaking. 

What the fuck?!?!*


----------



## Braylyt

Mexico pls


----------



## Leon Knuckles

They went from audio difficulties to technical difficulties. :yoda


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Blue Demon can still go!


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

The referee is a Demon fan.


----------



## Arkham258

Yeah, this show has been a mess. I stopped watching it. My first taste of Triple A...not a good first impression


----------



## Deadman's Hand

*Dave Meltzer's burying this show on Twitter. :lol*


----------



## Arkham258

I think I'd rather go watch Wrestle Kingdom 9 or Ultima Lucha again than continue watching this.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

A TNA ONO would be better than this.

El Patron vs Brian Cage should be awesome though.


----------



## Leon Knuckles

THANK YOU DEMON :clap


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Hugo...shut the hell up. Nobody can hear you.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Good moment.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Have no personal feelings but I can tell it's a sad but proud moment for all involved.


----------



## Vårmakos

It only took them until the semi main to fix the technical issues.

Spoke too soon.


----------



## Braylyt

The issues are fixed and Cage vs Alberto is next.


----------



## Leon Knuckles

FROM THE 559 THEY CALL HIM CAGE :yoda


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

A Trump t-shirt! Holy shit! Haha


----------



## Deadman's Hand

*Never seen Perro Jr. wrestle, but it was still a nice tribute.

Brian Cage vs. El Patron. The production team better not fuck this up.*


----------



## Leon Knuckles

EL JABRON BUSTED OPEN BUT YOU ALREADY KNOW THAT :lol


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Blood already.


----------



## Deadman's Hand

*Why are they doing a distracted ref spot, in a No DQ match?*


----------



## Leon Knuckles

Hugo sounds like an angry chipmunk :lmao


----------



## Leon Knuckles

Deadman's Hand said:


> *Why are they doing a distracted ref spot, in a No DQ match?*


The ref wasn't even distracted. He was watching the match. :lol


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Did Hugo say 70,000 fans? What.....?


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Crooked ref.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

What the fuck is wrong with the ref? I hate Lucha Libre. LOL


----------



## Leon Knuckles

THIS REF OMG :lol


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Earl Hebner!


----------



## Leon Knuckles

GREAT MATCH :clap ****


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Good match. These matches are shorter than past Triplemania's no?


----------



## Deadman's Hand

*Now that was a great match.*


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

He looks alright bald.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

30+ minutes? This could make the show!


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Rey looks incredible.


----------



## Deadman's Hand

*Rey Mysterio has become Drago!*


----------



## Vårmakos

i sense a rudo turn .. :mark:


----------



## JAROTO

Myztezyz entrance was done the way Owen Hart died.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Deadman's Hand said:


> *Rey Mysterio has become Drago!*


or Hijo de Dragon Azteca


----------



## Leon Knuckles

JAROTO said:


> Myztezyz entrance was done the way Owen Hart died.


Botch Cara could have botched and died. :cry


----------



## Deadman's Hand

*Yep, Myzteziz is turning heel.*


----------



## GREEK FREAK

Myzteziz throwing Rey reminded me of this


----------



## Deadman's Hand

*Holy shit, that could've gone bad.*


----------



## Leon Knuckles

Deadman's Hand said:


> *Yep, Myzteziz is turning heel.*


I thought Rey was turning.


----------



## JAROTO

I expected a much faster pace in this match.


----------



## Vårmakos

Myzteziz seriously taps to his own finisher? ROFL


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Don't like the finish, but great match.


----------



## Deadman's Hand

*Pretty good main event.*


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

What kind of ending is this?


----------



## Leon Knuckles

DOUBLE 619 :yoda


----------



## Vårmakos

ULTRA VIOLENCE


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Botch Cara


----------



## GREEK FREAK




----------



## Vårmakos

That was one hell of a botch.


----------



## Braylyt

It wouldn't have been the same if Myzteziz hadn't botched a move.


----------



## JAROTO

Didn't like the match and what a horrible ending, but I am glad Rey won.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Wasn't rey not born in Mexico? Why is Mystico turning heel on Mexico? What the fuck?


----------



## Leon Knuckles

MASK VS MASK :yoda


----------



## Nine99

How long before this is posted anywhere on YouTube or watchwrestling ?


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Really underwhelming coming off of Lucha Underground.

Konnan and Rey are no longer boys.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

I have the pants? So Sin Cara isn't in La Sociadad? This is some TNA clusterfuck shit.


----------



## GREEK FREAK

Ultima Lucha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Triplemania XXIII


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

So Rey is going to retire after losing his mask. No way he can beat La Sociadad...unless he gets help from El Patron, Psycho Clown, and Jack Evans!


----------



## Corey

Just have to say that I didn't watch the show but this has has been hilarious to read. :lol


----------



## amhlilhaus

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Just have to say that I didn't watch the show but this has has been hilarious to read.


Sounded like a bunch of shit


----------



## JAROTO

Spears said:


> Ultima Lucha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Triplemania XXIII


Anything >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Triplemania XXIII


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Largely average show. As is the case for big AAA shows generally. I thought the Myzteziz vs Mysterio was great but far from the best lucha this year. The postmatch angle and the main saved it from being a thumbs down show. I was expecting Myzteziz to be rudo just for this match but it seems he is completely on the other side now. Ok show with a very good main event.










I don't know why people would be expecting LU greatness from a AAA show. It goes to show how big that gap is between audiences and the shows themselves.


----------



## ZEROVampire

*AAA TRIPLEMANIA XXIII*

Relevos Atómicos de Locura
Dinastía, Drago, Goya Kong & Pimpinela Escarlata vs Daga, Mamba, Mini Psycho Clown & Sexy Star 1/4*

Los Psycho Circus (Monster Clown, Murder Clown & Psycho Clown) vs Los Villanos (Villano III, Villano IV & Villano V) DUD

*AAA Campeonato Mundial de Trios* - Steel Cage Match
Los Hell Brothers (Averno, Chessman & Cibernético) (c) vs Fénix, Angélico & Jack Evans vs El Hijo del Fantasma, Pentagón Jr. & Texano Jr. 1/2*

Electroshock & El Mesias vs Blue Demon Jr. & La Parka 1/4*

Lucha de Apuestas: Cabellera contra Cabellera
Alberto El Patrón vs Brian Cage *1/4

Dream Match
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs Myzteziz **

Overall Rating: 1.5

_worst show that i've seen_


----------



## famicommander

I've ordered three PPVs this year, the others being Death Before Dishonor and Best in the World, and this was the worst of the three by far. Even if you ignore the audio problems.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

WesternFilmGuy said:


> When I saw Brian Cage in TNA a few years ago I didn't think he would be CO-headlining the biggest AAA event. There is absolutely no way I see El Patron losing but still cool!
> 
> Honestly, never really watched AAA, but LU has got me interested in some of the luchadores. Looks like a great card with some familiar faces so I will be purchasing the PPV. I don't know how much they are in Mexico, but $30 HD doesn't seem too bad. Hopefully the two main matches are on LU quality.


Please take my $19 and put it towards better audio. What waste of $19 on a poorly ran event. I will be holding off watching anymore AAA, and just sticking to LU.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

AAA is WWE with just a little bit better wrestling. I was right that LU and NXT are basically the same. Superior to their parent promotions.


----------



## Lazyking

I ♥ KEMONITO;51259986 said:


> Largely average show. As is the case for big AAA shows generally. I thought the Myzteziz vs Mysterio was great but far from the best lucha this year. The postmatch angle and the main saved it from being a thumbs down show. I was expecting Myzteziz to be rudo just for this match but it seems he is completely on the other side now. Ok show with a very good main event.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know why people would be expecting LU greatness from a AAA show. It goes to show how big that gap is between audiences and the shows themselves.



What I got from Triplemania was all the bad Lucha Libre cliches with terrible production.

Why did Myzteziz play rudo in the match, get beat down then turn rudo again. annoying.


----------



## Vårmakos

People say CMLL is boring, but they demolish AAA in match quality.


----------



## Taker-Tribute-Act

I thought the 2 main matches were very good. Mysterio and Mysteziz showed why they should have faced-off in WWE. The ending was slightly confusing, one can only assume that Los Perros del Mal were only convinced of Mysteziz's turn when he took out Mysterio and slated the crowd.


----------



## LaMelo

Sin Cara turned heel?


----------



## MR-Bolainas

I'm a big fan of AAA but this was a Pretty Average PPV, at least there were some good moments on it. The spanish audio feed had 50% less problems but english broadcast was plagued with technical problems.

•Relevos Atómicos de locura Match: Drago, Goya Kong, Dinastía & Pimpinela Escarlata defeated Daga, Sexy Star, Mini Psycho Clown & Mamba. -> 3/5
Could have been better, at least they put Drago, Dinastia and Sexy Star (She needs more matches this year)

•Los Villanos defeated the Psycho Circus. ->3/5
Psycho Clown (w/ Goya Kong) vs Villano IV (w/ Villano III) or a hardcore match would have been better. Villanos were too old to wrestle.

•AAA World Trios Title Match Cage Ladder Match: Los Hell Brothers (AAA World Trios Champions) defeated Jack Evans, Angelico & Fénix and Pentagon Jr., Hijo Del Fantasma & El Texano Jr. to retain the AAA World Trios Titles. ->2/5
It was very short, Pentagon Jr and his team needed the titles and also why it was a cage match with so many people?

•Blue Demon Jr. & La Parka defeated El Mesias & Electro Shock -> 3/5
Average match, El mesias had interesting moments in the match

•Hair Vs. Hair Match: Alberto El Patron defeated Brian Cage to take his hair. 4/5
Good Match, i hope this end the feud but probably it will continue on next shows

•Rey Mysterio Jr. defeated Myzteziz. -> 4/5
I liked Myztezyz rudo turn, probably he will feud with Alberto for the AAA Mega campeonato after Cage.

Next PPV it will be Heroes Inmortales. October 4.


----------



## Lazyking

one of my things with Lucha is how would I follow AAA after seeing Triplemania? I never know which shows to watch cause youtube is so scattered.


----------



## Arkham258

WesternFilmGuy said:


> AAA is WWE with just a little bit better wrestling. I was right that LU and NXT are basically the same. Superior to their parent promotions.


I definitely got that impression. This PPV was my first taste of AAA and I didn't even watch the whole thing. Match quality in the first hour or so wasn't great, and all kinds of sound and production issues. My god, this was embarrassing. And guys like Angelico, Pentagon Jr., Sexy Star, Evans, Drago, etc. just didn't feel like as big a deal on this show as they do on Lucha Underground. They were just some guys (girl, in Sexy's case) thrown out there. 

Ultima Lucha I could watch another 5 times, and I couldn't even make it through one Triplemania.

Even the crowd didn't seem that great, though given all the audio issues maybe I wasn't hearing them.


----------



## BadTouch

Lazyking said:


> one of my things with Lucha is how would I follow AAA after seeing Triplemania? I never know which shows to watch cause youtube is so scattered.


Sub to their Youtube channel. They upload Sin Limite (the weekly show) on a Thursday I believe


----------



## amhlilhaus

If they wanted to use lu success to make new us fans I could've saved them the trouble. Even if the technical side of things went perfect, and it didnt, the booking of lu guys isn't on the same planet as it is in aaa. 

If they think that getting on el rey will provide a big American boost then they are insane. At times they have great action but their booking is worse than wwe. It won't work.


----------



## Rah

It wouldn't be a true Triplemania without Konnan ending the show and cutting off a great match.




*El Satanico v Sangre Chicana - EMLL(?) - 5/26/89*
Traversed back in time after seeing a 65 year old Satanico take it to Blue Panther; guy is just ageless. Brilliant build of hatred between these two, with Chicana getting into Satanico's head from the opening handshake and slowly driving the devil mad. Meat of the brawl comes in the third fall, when it looks like they just binned the script and starting duking each other for real. Satanico's got a great quick jab but holy hell does Chicana potato the stroppy bastard with some of the best hooks I've ever seen in wrestling. That's just one moment in an entire fall of spots that I feel like making a gif of the next time someone says that wrestling needs blood to feel real. Nothing is more real than Satanico stomping Chicana's head into the hard floor after a vicious takedown. Nothing. Bless these two, because that third fall was the tits.


*El Satanico v Shiro Koshinaka - EMLL(?) - 7/30/84*
Tremendous start, and a real good way of shifting the tecnico/rudo dynamic but, boy, does Shiro fall off. I quickly went from enjoying Koshinaka's violent start, and the majority of the first fall, to sticking out the rest of the video in the hopes Satanico would just maul the ever-loving shit out of him as a penance for making me sit through this. The latter happened in parts, but nowhere near enough. Playing up one's desperation with a "plucky" pin after dominating 99% of the fall is egregious at best. Throwing out a piledriver, knowing you have 10 minutes to go, as a kinda-big but not really spot is even worse. I don't even blame Satanico for hulking up after that (with the taste of freshly flowing blood fueling him). There's nothing he could realistically do to make the spot feel as important as it should be at the point it's delivered. I'd make an off-hand comment that Shiro being posted, and walking around like nothing happened, only to fall over, exhausted, after DELIVERING a piledriver is the most Ibushi thing I've ever seen but, at least, Ibushi got better. Shiro just sucks.


----------



## TripleG

I was going to check out Triplemania, but got busy with other things. 

From what I'm hearing, it sounds like I didn't miss much.


----------



## Miguel De Juan

TripleG said:


> I was going to check out Triplemania, but got busy with other things.
> 
> From what I'm hearing, it sounds like I didn't miss much.


Watch lasts years show. This years show outside the two mainevents (watch them on youtube) was a disaster.


----------



## Flair Shot

Not what i expected this years Triplemania to be but you if remove the 2 dud matches(Los Villanos vs. Los Psycho Circus & Blue Demon/Parka vs. Shock/Mesias) you keep a pretty decent show all things considered.


----------



## Corey

How fucking annoying were Striker on Hugo on commentary last night? Jesus. Their over excitement for EVERY single move was ridiculous and it sounded like Striker just blew a load after every nearfall.


----------



## WBS

Wow.. What a horrible ppv! The production, the booking, the wrestling, my God. They blew up pretty bad on this one. Talking about US expansion?...


----------



## Casual Fan #52

I admit I watched Triplemania and had a hell of a hard time with the lack of consistency with Lucha Underground. I did recognize a lot of the stars, so that much was nice. PPV itself kinda sucked.

So is this what Lucha Underground would be without the great creative minds behind that show? Whoever the writers and producers of LU are... props to them. What a difference. Even Striker sounded really really annoying on Triplemania but works great on LU.


----------



## USAUSA1

Mask vs mask Rey vs Myzteziz will be the biggest lucha match ever. Rey is losing no doubt.


----------



## kimino

Hope the feud last at least 2 years more, and i dont know if they want fenix as the future then Myzteziz mask is not that important


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

CMLL Live in Puebla streaming off YT https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=lKFCNxDHkhE


----------



## WBS

AAA does a lot of teasing possible matches, so Rey vs myzteziz mask vs mask is not certain of happening. 

P.s. Striker was the worst commentator ever on this show!


----------



## Corey

Can anyone explain to me why Ciclon Ramirez vs. Felino made DVDVR's top 20 Lucha Matches of the 90s list? The match ended with Casas throwing in the towel for Felino when he actually had Ramirez in a submission hold. Seems like a legit pointless inclusion on such a list.


----------



## Rah

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Can anyone explain to me why Ciclon Ramirez vs. Felino made DVDVR's top 20 Lucha Matches of the 90s list? The match ended with Casas throwing in the towel for Felino when he actually had Ramirez in a submission hold. Seems like a legit pointless inclusion on such a list.


That set was the bastard child of footage availability and Meltzer's weird love for workrate, as far as I can tell. You have to remember they made that set 15 or so years ago, so it was a whole different ballpark back then. Since then, a lot of the posters have developed their tastes beyond the style that Meltzer used to pimp, and branched out into discovering some proper hidden gems. 90s CMLL getting more spotlight is indicative of that. I love mid-90s Rey, but there's probably not much 90s AAA that should be in a top 20 for the decade.

Maybe they'll redo the set, at some point, but no set will ever be accurate. Between opinions and historical importance (I assume this is why some matches on the 80s set survived the cut), no list will ever survive time. That isn't to say the set they did put out won't be an easy introduction to lucha for some. Look at how heralded the As Worlds Collide apuesta is.



EDIT: here's OJ's own take on the 90s. I find his tastes and mine differ wildly, but the list is a lot better than DVDVR's



> 1. Atlantis vs Blue Panther, 8/9/91
> 2. El Dandy vs ***** Casas, 7/3/92
> 3. Angel Azteca vs. El Dandy, 6/1/90
> 4. El Satanico/El Dandy/Emilio Charles Jr. vs. Atlantis/Javier Cruz/Angel Azteca, 5/13/90
> 5. Los Infernales (MS-1, Satanico & Pirata Morgan) vs. Los Brazos, 11/22/91
> 6. Bracito De Oro/Cicloncito Ramirez/Mascarita Magica vs Damiancito El Guerrero/El Fierito/Pierrothito, 10/3/97
> 7. Cicloncito Ramirez vs Damiancito El Guerrero, 1/7/97
> 8. Trio Fantasia v. Thundercats, (Masks vs. Masks), 12/8/91
> 9. Ciclon Ramirez vs Felino (Mask vs Mask), 7/9/93
> 10. Pirata Morgan vs El Faraon (Hair vs Hair), 11/16/90
> 11. El Hijo Del Santo vs Brazo De Oro (Mask vs Hair), 1/13/91
> 12. El Mariachi vs Blue Panther, 10/30/94
> 13. Ciclon Ramirez vs Javier Cruz (Hair vs Hair), 6/10/94
> 14. Atlantis/Brazo De Oro/El Dandy/Mascara Magica/La Fiera/***** Casas/Shocker/Ultimo Dragon vs Black Warrior/Dr. Wagner Jr./El Hijo Del Santo/Felino/Kevin Quinn/Satanico/Scorpio Jr./Silver King, 4/18/97
> 15. El Hijo del Santo vs. Felino, 7/4/97
> 16. Rayo De Jalisco Jr. vs Apolo Dantes, 5/31/96
> 17. Octagon vs Fuerza Guerrera, 11/1/91
> 18. Mascarita Sagrada vs Espectrito I, 3/12/94
> 19. Silver King vs Apolo Dantes, 6/23/95
> 20. Dr. Wagner Jr./El Hijo Del Santo/El Texano/La Fiera/Mascara Magica/Mr. Niebla/Shocker vs Black Warrior/El Dandy/Felino/Mano Negra/***** Casas/Scorpio Jr./Silver King, 3/28/97


----------



## Rah

*Virus vs Caifan (21/06/2015 Chilanga Mask)* - Caifan's a bit of a cocky fella. He's facing one of Mexico's finest and busting out some slick taunts at every turn. Between popping out of Virus' holds into doing push-ups or doing his headstand slaps in the opening minute, I'm beginning to wish I didn't stop following his career after Hechicero left him. Of course I don't buy him being better than his opponent, and neither does Virus, who continues on unphased by Caifan's attempts to rile him up. He's biding his time, of course, waiting for a moment to trap the cabron in some painful hold.

It's an unabashed Virus lightning match, just with Caifan taking some CMLL rookies place. It's Chilanga Mask, so of course the match ends out of nowhere, but this was a lot more fun than I first found it. If you're a Caifanes Rockeros fan, give it a go.


*Solar vs Dr Cerebro (???)* - of all the forgotten IWRG mat-wizards, is there any more sadly lost than Dr Cerebro? Years of fantastic stuff alongside stable-mate Black Terry, with a forte in both matwork and violent brawling. Maybe he's not quite as crisp as buddy Terry or Navarro, but he's got a nack for creating some sickeningly twisted submissions and he takes grumpy old-man Solar to the cleaners with some here. Solar working out of his comfort zone (Navarro) also brings a more game performance. Navarro/Solar never quite gets stale, but I had pegged Solar as reaching the end of his career in some the last few matches. Here, though, he's taking it to Cerebro like a man possessed. If only the entire match was taped. Alas.


*Dr Cerebro vs ***** Navarro (06/06/2015 G.E.I)* - things fall off at the end, but the beginning half is more than salivating enough. Navarro's more spirited than Solar, so you get a bit more athleticism in the spots, here, than the previous match. Here, though, I'm hoping for an extended match and not a mano a mano exhibition. Throw some hate into this, and this may just be something great. But, for now, I wait for Cerebro vs Hechicero...


----------



## USAUSA1

Is the clarosports stream any good?


----------



## amhlilhaus

If aaa and lu fall out, lu should pair up with cmll. Rush, titan, cavernario, dragon lee and you guys could name a dozen others deserve more American exposure


----------



## USAUSA1

Probably not going to happen with those long contracts. Plus, I think AAA characters are more ready for LU. You not going to find a Pentagon Jr, Drago or Aerostar type gimmick in CMLL. Even when you compare the gringos, Jindrak is no Angelico,Jack Evans or ADR.

Feel sorry for AAA, they've been trying for a while to break out of Mexico and always having some type of issues(Steve Shipp/MTV 2/Masked Warriors fiasco,Galavision taking off lucha,LU being expensive, Triplemania 23, many IPPV's issues) while CMLL have a tv show on Azteca America and 52MX. Plus, past streaming shows like the Anniversary show came off as flawless.CMLL doesn't even try, they probably could care less about Azteca America. The Clarosports.com stream will probably blow away Triplemania(hopefully).

I think Dorian Roldan is a great young promoter. Hopefully, Unimas or El Rey can pick up AAA. AAA would be cheap programming and more financial viable for El Rey than LU.


----------



## USAUSA1

Matt Farmer got me thinking about watching some old lucha this weekend.


----------



## PurityOfEvil

Think I'm going to watch some of this on Dailymotion and see what it's like since I've heard so many good things about it. 

Anyone suggest where the best place to start is?


----------



## xsw

amhlilhaus said:


> If aaa and lu fall out, lu should pair up with cmll. Rush, titan, cavernario, dragon lee and you guys could name a dozen others deserve more American exposure


Eric mentioned that the investors came from Mexico, so if AAA leaves, LU is no more.


----------



## amhlilhaus

xsw said:


> amhlilhaus said:
> 
> 
> 
> If aaa and lu fall out, lu should pair up with cmll. Rush, titan, cavernario, dragon lee and you guys could name a dozen others deserve more American exposure
> 
> 
> 
> Eric mentioned that the investors came from Mexico, so if AAA leaves, LU is no more.
Click to expand...

In that case go AAA


----------



## Corey

PurityOfEvil said:


> Think I'm going to watch some of this on Dailymotion and see what it's like since I've heard so many good things about it.
> 
> Anyone suggest where the best place to start is?


Are you talking about Lucha Underground? If so, http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/1085777-lucha-underground-el-rey-network.html

If not, well there's a lot of Lucha out there so you'll have to specify.


----------



## USAUSA1

Clarosport stream is great


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Will Rey be going after the AAA Cruiserweight or what?


----------



## USAUSA1

The next aaa taping line up looks awesome, way better than Triplemania.


----------



## USAUSA1

Sombra vs Atlantis mask match, they want to do it but will it happen this year?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

USAUSA1 said:


> Sombra vs Atlantis mask match, they want to do it but will it happen this year?


No way. A mask match of that caliber will not be rushed into. They will draw it out as long as possible. But Atlantis is a special case because of his age. Can they afford to take a chance on him remaining healthy enough to run that program for the next year? I could see him staying in his current form for atleast a year. They can run Ingobernables vs Atlantis/UG/Casas if they wanted to, but I have a feeling that egos will win out. 

CMLL are streaming Friday nights at Arena Mexico again via ClaroSports streaming. BUT only for Mexican internet region. You can get around it using a VPN. I couldn't because security/cpu issues. 



Angel de Oro vs Polvora CMLL World Light Heavyweight Championship 
2015-07-28 @ Arena México ****1/2+ LUCHA MOTYC

Lucha MOTYC. Could have been in the realm of 5 stars if not for the awful 1st fall being followed up by an underwhelming 2nd fall. They started ok trading pin attempts, but it falls apart once Angel de Oro either starts the next spot too soon or too late. Polvora has to sit there like an asshole and wait for things to fall into place or get into another position. The third fall is possibly the very best fall you'll see from CMLL all year. Incredible back and forth with emphatic near falls that everyone in attendance believed in. The finish was a bit of a let down to such an epic tercera. Watch with audio on to enhance the drama.


----------



## USAUSA1

I watched the stream on the clarosports website chose the canal 2 option with no issues.


----------



## amhlilhaus

USAUSA1 said:


> Sombra vs Atlantis mask match, they want to do it but will it happen this year?


Cmll is worse than wwe in regards to its,legends.

Atlantis is making John Cena look like Mick Foley giving guys rubs. He's almost 60, and taking young guys masks? I bet cmll think he's the reason they drew that huge crowd for his last mask match, but it was really Ultima guerrero. Guess sombra needs extra cash, and he needs it now!


----------



## PurityOfEvil

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Are you talking about Lucha Underground? If so, http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/1085777-lucha-underground-el-rey-network.html
> 
> If not, well there's a lot of Lucha out there so you'll have to specify.


Yes. Was talking about Lucha Underground, cheers.


----------



## USAUSA1

I ♥ KEMONITO;51417330 said:


> No way. A mask match of that caliber will not be rushed into. They will draw it out as long as possible. But Atlantis is a special case because of his age. Can they afford to take a chance on him remaining healthy enough to run that program for the next year? I could see him staying in his current form for atleast a year. They can run Ingobernables vs Atlantis/UG/Casas if they wanted to, but I have a feeling that egos will win out.
> 
> CMLL are streaming Friday nights at Arena Mexico again via ClaroSports streaming. BUT only for Mexican internet region. You can get around it using a VPN. I couldn't because security/cpu issues.
> 
> 
> 
> Angel de Oro vs Polvora CMLL World Light Heavyweight Championship
> 2015-07-28 @ Arena México ****1/2+ LUCHA MOTYC
> 
> Lucha MOTYC. Could have been in the realm of 5 stars if not for the awful 1st fall being followed up by an underwhelming 2nd fall. They started ok trading pin attempts, but it falls apart once Angel de Oro either starts the next spot too soon or too late. Polvora has to sit there like an asshole and wait for things to fall into place or get into another position. The third fall is possibly the very best fall you'll see from CMLL all year. Incredible back and forth with emphatic near falls that everyone in attendance believed in. The finish was a bit of a let down to such an epic tercera. Watch with audio on to enhance the drama.


Crazy match, must see.


----------



## USAUSA1

Flamita and Ludxor vs Steve Pain and Daga is a must watch match. Love Flamita finisher.


----------



## Bobryderswebcam

Just watched trple mania, the productions issues were terrible I thought seeing this show in English would improve my viewing.

I didn't bank on so many production issues and matt striker was terrible this is a guy that needs coaching through commentary ala jim ross at wrestekingdom.

the two main events were good, alberto looked like a star, the match was the best by far on the card. Loved the Donald trump t'shirt and the story telling in the match. Cage finally proved himself to be a star for me and how he isn't in TNA or WWE amazes me, he has improved so much

Rey vs Sin Cara, a great match, the entrance's where fantastic. The story in this was brilliant, the vet having all the counters and been able to outwrestle the younger guy who resorts to brawling. the finish it was a dream match one or two botches but no big deal. Nice heel turn at the end but it was a kinda bullshit ending for the biggest show of the year. Did konnan need to get involved??? suppose It leads to a match down the road

The cage match was what it was a spot match nuff said, jack evans dismount on to the guys below was subline. I forgot how athletic he could be. seems to have cut a nice niche for himself in mexico

First two matches where shit


----------



## Stetho

Finally finished Triplemania. The sound problem, jeez...

+ : Nice stage
+ : Patron vs Cage (this Trump shirt !)
+ : Rey vs Myzteziz, except the ending
+ : The Garza and Aguayo celebration 
+ : Myzteziz rudo = Gold !

- : Sound...
- : Too short matches
- : Too many old men...
- : Myzteziz taps out to la Mistica ? F*** that
- : Dragged out ending... Just give more time to the match itself ffs !

Well, I got to be nice with AAA because I want to encourage them but this show really wasn't what it should have been. You can do better than that !


----------



## Bobryderswebcam

I cant believe the live feed went off whilst konnan and crew where getting on the mic and striker was still explaining the implications. I like triple A its my first venture into Lucha, minus bits of underground. which isnt my favourite style of wrestling that said these guys proved a good story can be told in the ring using this cruiserweight style.

American promotions such as TNA really need to look to lucha to see how to book an x division and how to make it a spectacle.

Albertos theme is such a shady rip off


----------



## Flair Shot

Bobryderswebcam said:


> *Albertos theme is such a shady rip off*


Except that it is not. It's a remix.


----------



## Stetho

It's like saying "Alberto El Patron" is a shady ripoff of his ancient name. He keeps the same character within the limits of copyrights, that's all.


----------



## Bobryderswebcam

RKO361 said:


> Except that it is not. It's a remix.


it clearly rips of his wwe theme intro i aint hating i liked the way it was done it was just funny


----------



## USAUSA1

https://www.kichink.com/stores/luchalibreaaa

Official AAA store online and great prices.


----------



## pgi86

CMLL continues its streak of awesome anniversary main events. Atlantis vs. La Sombra has been announced as the main event for the 82nd CMLL anniversary show (September 18th). Hell yeah! Man, I so hope they stream the show this year too.

Also, LA Park and Dr. Wagner Jr. are both coming back to CMLL. Wagner's first show back is August 28th. Hell yeah about this too! Now book them against Rush, please!


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

CMLL just had a pretty historic press confrence. They have officialized Atlantis vs La Sombra MASCARA VS MASCARA. Not only that, they drop a bomb. They are going to work with LA PARK and Dr. Wagner again. Both appeared at the press confrence. It appears they will be back in Arena Mexico as part of CMLL. I am a bit shocked that they are going with this mask match with such a short build. This is winner vs winner of the last big mask matches against one another. The obvious result would be Sombra winning by some underhanded tactic. The only way Sombra should lose is if he got a WWE deal. There has been zero word about that. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/634065073753866240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/634064540817199104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/634062779264069632


----------



## USAUSA1

But didn't they signed a masked match before and change it to a tag match at the last minute?

Wagner is a lucky guy. Work Triplemania main event last year, work Lucha World cup this year and will probably be in a big match at the Anniversary show. Not bad for an independent worker. 

Clarosports might extend CMLL if these next few weeks goes well.


----------



## amhlilhaus

USAUSA1 said:


> But didn't they signed a masked match before and change it to a tag match at the last minute?
> 
> Wagner is a lucky guy. Work Triplemania main event last year, work Lucha World cup this year and will probably be in a big match at the Anniversary show. Not bad for an independent worker.
> 
> Clarosports might extend CMLL if these next few weeks goes well.


Also not bad for someone who isn't very good


----------



## pgi86

USAUSA1 said:


> But didn't they signed a masked match before and change it to a tag match at the last minute?


No. It was said it was going to be a singles match, but right as they were about to sign the official contract for the match it got changed to a tag match. This time the contract's already been signed.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I checked out the CMLL weekly interview show off youtube. L.A. Park appeared and explained where he's been and his stomach disease that almost killed him, which was simillar to what Brock Lesnar had but worse. He starts on Aug 28 at Arena Mexico. Hyped his fued with Rush. Put over Los Ingobernables for their attitude and style. 

The show closed out with Atlantis interview. Atlantis put over La Sombra. He said he requested it be a singles match and would not allow interference from anybody becasue he knows that the fans hate that. He promised the fans he would get his before all is over. Interviewer brought up his previous beef with Wagner. Atlantis burried his ass for always making mask challenges and never going through with them. Said he talked too much and to get in line because he is dealing with Sombra first. 

I was totally surprised they are doing this express mask match. On one side it makes sense for Atlantis to lose his mask to Sombra but on the other side, Los Ingobernables are the hot thing. Sombra could become a bigger star without the mask and hopefully gain some charisma through use of his face. I bet he wants to lose it so he can get the perks unmasked guys get. I can see arguments for either result. Atlantis is their living legend with a very good fan relation with kids. There isn't a guy that can fill the void Atlantis leaves. You'll never find out either unless he's gone...possibly why Wagner is there?

The more you think about it the more you find yourself switching sides.


----------



## USAUSA1

Now you got my brain spinning.


----------



## amhlilhaus

What benefits would sombra get from losing his mask?

Cmll kills me. All that talent, and they do fuck all with it. Just a little bit of focus and they could crush it.

Must be nice to own your own arenas.


----------



## xsw

I ♥ KEMONITO;51546369 said:


> Interviewer brought up his previous beef with Wagner. Atlantis burried his ass for always making mask challenges and never going through with them. Said he talked too much and to get in line because he is dealing with Sombra first.


As the story goes, crowd turned on Atlantis big time, so Paco asked him to drop his mask, Paco won't let it happen but he was more like thinking Atlantis would set an example and say "as you wish boss", instead, Atlantis refused and Paco had no option but to depush him into being second fiddle to Ultimo Guerrero... Mistico leaving changed everything. 

I doubt Sombra cares about his mask, since it was imposed by CMLL, so anything goes. Park and Wagner will be out of CMLL in a few weeks, CMLL has no exposure, they got some internet feeds, but that's like 500 people watching.

No one is going to pay LA Park what he asks for his mask since we all know that a week later, he's gonna be using his mask or a proxy again and the mask match will mean nothing... he's already lost masks matches a couple of times. to Stuka and Hijo del Santo so...


----------



## Miguel De Juan

amhlilhaus said:


> Also not bad for someone who isn't very good


lol what 
Dr. Wagner is amazing, over, and a legend.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

amhlilhaus said:


> What benefits would sombra get from losing his mask?


He would be treated like a celebrity wherever he'd go if people knew what he looked like. It would be easier to have a bond with the fans I'd think if they could see emotion on his face, so that could help supplement his lack of charisma. Alberto Dos Caras is a good example of what I mean. How no mask helped his career. 

I expect Wagner and Park to fill the arenas for them. Hopefully they stick around long enough to hold down a televisa deal. Short term is that the mask match will fill the arena and set another record gate. 

xsw, that was a period where I was not watching much of anything. Though I do recall watching several matches from the Atlantis maldad phase around that time, but years later. Its good to know the story.


----------



## kimino

I think Sombra is going to lose the mask, Atlantis has been booked as an absolute legend by CMLL and i expect them to continue that until he retires.

Also as Kemonito said, Sombra and Los Ingobernables dont need the mask, but if Sombra lose the mask i expect Los Ingobernables to stay for a long time. I would expect Atlantis to lose his mask if he were to be thinking in retirement, and if this feud had 1 or 2 years of building. But yeah i am not so sure what is going to happen in this CMLL Aniversario, anyways CMLL aniversario always delievers. September hurry up!


----------



## amhlilhaus

kimino said:


> I think Sombra is going to lose the mask, Atlantis has been booked as an absolute legend by CMLL and i expect them to continue that until he retires.
> 
> Also as Kemonito said, Sombra and Los Ingobernables dont need the mask, but if Sombra lose the mask i expect Los Ingobernables to stay for a long time. I would expect Atlantis to lose his mask if he were to be thinking in retirement, and if this feud had 1 or 2 years of building. But yeah i am not so sure what is going to happen in this CMLL Aniversario, anyways CMLL aniversario always delievers. September hurry up!


I guess if sombra does lose then he will get the post mask loss push to regain his heat like ultima guerrero did.


----------



## pgi86

Man, I so hope they book Park, Wagner & Atlantis vs. Los Ingobernables for next Friday. That would be a white hot main event. The perfect return for Wagner & Park, really.

So, with that said, any guesses for the other matches on the anniversary show? Surely there's going to be something with Park and Rush. I'd like to see Wagner in that mix too. Park already offered a truce to Wagner and I'd like to see them run with this idea for a while. You just know eventually Park and Wagner will go at it again, but for now I'd like to see them tag up against Rush and company. Something like Park, Wagner & Volador vs. Rush, Naito & Mascara would make for a great semi-main for the anniversary show. Beyond that, I have no idea what else might be on the card. Although, to be honest, the card as a whole doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of this. It's all about the main event and possibly the semi-main. Everything else is just an added bonus.


----------



## USAUSA1

UG and Thunder will have some type of match with each other probably.


----------



## pgi86

Ah, yes. You're probably right. Completely forgot about their feud. A random trios match with them would work just fine.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

USAUSA1 said:


> UG and Thunder will have some type of match with each other probably.


If they can find Thunder. He is not on any of the cards up untill the 82 show. UG is listed for a tuesday show across from Mistico,Titan,Maximo. The ticket prices are up and it appears to be impossible to match what they did for the UG/Atlantis show with the Mex Peso being so weak right now. A shame for them because this match could have set a record gate.


----------



## USAUSA1

That's why they probably rush it, the peso might be worse next year. They still going to draw $800k plus at the gate. Most anticipated match for me this year. Gives me hope for Myzteziz/Rey mask match(which will break UG/Atlantis record no matter how's the economy). Good times


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Virus vs Guerrero Maya jr. ****1/2
8-14-15 @ Arena Neza

Mat based lucha masterpiece. Talk about no wasted movement. Keep your eyes on Virus. The little master perfectly executes holds and counterholds with the timing of an angel. Maya lets the match down when he becomes unaware of having both shoulders pinned for an exuberant amount of time. Luckily the referee saves the match by not counting 3 while this happens. I wish it could have been longer. Fuck off Dean Malenko, Virus is the real man of 1000 holds. Captivating 13 minutes of mat based lucha mastery from beginning to end.







*ratings based off personal enjoyment (dont take too seriously)


----------



## USAUSA1

I was about to watch it, heard it was great. Thanks for the report.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

CMLL live Arena Mexico show just ended that you can watch here every friday @8:30 CDT http://www.clarosports.com/en-vivo/ quick recap

Was a fun show. They were hyping the big 82 Aniv show. Good not great matches. Guerrero Maya jr vs Bobby Zavala in the "busca de un idolo" final. Which was not a good match. Very subpar, much like the entire tournament. Next LA Park came out for a promo. States he is there for Rush. He will follow him wherever he goes. If Wagner gets in the way, he'll take him too. But his main objective is Rush and puts himself over. 

Then was the best match of the night Volador/Mistico/Dragon Lee vs Felino/Cavernario/UG in a good match. The interation between UG and Dragon Lee looks very promising. There should be plans for them in the future. Post-match Thunder runs in through the crowd in street clothes and destroys UG and lays him out with a sharp looking brain buster and cuts a good promo where he got a good amount of heat for refusing to put his mask on the line vs UG. 










Los Ingobernables were up next vs Atlantis/Valiente/Maximo. Sombra snuck up on Atlantis to jump start. Beat down on tecnicos, heat untill tecnicos comeback happened. Atlantis started unlacing Sombra's mask. Big skirmish and Atlantis grabs Sombra's mask off his head. Ingobernables retreat and kill time while Sombra runs to the back for another mask. Maximo starts out the fall real hot and nearly kisses his brother La Mascara. Incest jokes were made. Rush comes in to stabilize the match for his team. Another skirmish. Sombra fouls Atlantis with ref not looking after being bumped. Takes the pin. Post-match, Ingobernables beat down Atlantis and rip his mask off. Promo that Sombra is the next legend in the making. Show end.


----------



## pgi86

Park and Wagner's return match next Friday is going to be:

*Dr. Wagner Jr., La Sombra & Rush vs. LA Park, Atlantis & Volador Jr.*

Awesome! Should be a hot match. Definitely watching the stream next week.


----------



## Stetho

I ♥ KEMONITO;51600249 said:


> CMLL live Arena Mexico show just ended that you can watch here every friday @8:30 CDT http://www.clarosports.com/en-vivo/ quick recap
> 
> Was a fun show. They were hyping the big 82 Aniv show. Good not great matches. Guerrero Maya jr vs Bobby Zavala in the "busca de un idolo" final. Which was not a good match. Very subpar, much like the entire tournament. Next LA Park came out for a promo. States he is there for Rush. He will follow him wherever he goes. If Wagner gets in the way, he'll take him too. But his main objective is Rush and puts himself over.
> 
> Then was the best match of the night Volador/Mistico/Dragon Lee vs Felino/Cavernario/UG in a good match. The interation between UG and Dragon Lee looks very promising. There should be plans for them in the future. Post-match Thunder runs in through the crowd in street clothes and destroys UG and lays him out with a sharp looking brain buster and cuts a good promo where he got a good amount of heat for refusing to put his mask on the line vs UG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Los Ingobernables were up next vs Atlantis/Valiente/Maximo. Sombra snuck up on Atlantis to jump start. Beat down on tecnicos, heat untill tecnicos comeback happened. Atlantis started unlacing Sombra's mask. Big skirmish and Atlantis grabs Sombra's mask off his head. Ingobernables retreat and kill time while Sombra runs to the back for another mask. Maximo starts out the fall real hot and nearly kisses his brother La Mascara. Incest jokes were made. Rush comes in to stabilize the match for his team. Another skirmish. Sombra fouls Atlantis with ref not looking after being bumped. Takes the pin. Post-match, Ingobernables beat down Atlantis and rip his mask off. Promo that Sombra is the next legend in the making. Show end.


Seems pretty good actually. Maybe I should follow CMLL


----------



## Rah

Virus/Maya was excellent stuff, and the best of the Indy matches for 2015, so far. Must see.



EDIT: shameless plug of "my own" video, but you guys need to see this, too!


----------



## USAUSA1

Clarosports have the main on their site.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

+Lucha Youtube channel just uploaded the full Chilanga Mask show. The popular lucha libre indy that has gained fame with its small underground following. 

1. Psycko Kid, Astro Rey Jr., Fulgor I y Fulgor II vs Rey Apocalipsis, Tony Cisneros, Extreme Fly y Luz Clarita
2. Dr. Cerebro vs Virus
3. Keira vs Zeuxis
4. Aero Boy, Súper Mega y Magnífico vs Iron Kid, Alas de Acero y Aramis vs Impulso, Belial y Arez vs Disturbio, Garrobo Punk y Ciber Punk
5. Trauma II vs Blue Panther
6. Guerrero Maya vs Guerrero Maya Jr.
7. Caifán y Avisman vs Último Guerrero y Hechicero
8. Pagano vs Trauma I






It is unknown if this will be a recurring thing. The same promoter had promised to upload a show before and did not deliver. Very cool that we get to see these matches recorded with an actual camera. I find it interesting they are able to show CMLL guys matches.


----------



## USAUSA1

The video production is top notch(at least too me anyway). Long show, have to pause it when walking dead comes on.


----------



## USAUSA1

Got up to Maya Sr vs Maya Jr so far, fn awesome match. Bloody match with great wrestling. Wasn't as high on Cerebro vs Virus like others. Panther vs Trauma II was a fun match. Can't wait to finish this show.


----------



## USAUSA1

UG chops is A+


----------



## asdf0501

Show of the year so far, it has been at least one year or so since the last time i saw Dr. Cerebro. He an Virus tore the house down, Guerrero Maya Jr. and Terry did the rest. Panther vs Trauma was fun but a little underwhelming after seeing Cerebro and Virus.

Also, moment of the year at the end of Guerrero Maya vs Guerrero Maya Jr. when Jr says at the crowd "why are you chanting Terry? he's Guerrero Maya" :lmao


----------



## mikey411

I don't actively watch it but I respect the product.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Dr. Wagner Jr is the coolest luchador ever.


----------



## USAUSA1

Can't wait for tonight, havent been this excited for an Arena Mexico show in awhile.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

ChilangaMask show had 3 great to excellent matches, its a good runner for show of the year. 

Here's the card for tonight's show at Arena Mexico @ 20:30/8:30 cdt











You can stream the show live here http://www.clarosports.com/panamericanos/en-vivo/
House should be packed for tonight.


----------



## USAUSA1

Arena Mexico clarosports has been great so far. Amazing streaming service.


----------



## amhlilhaus

USAUSA1 said:


> Arena Mexico clarosports has been great so far. Amazing streaming service.


I'm having no problems. The dancers before this match, a couple had some serious racks


----------



## USAUSA1

The cibernetico has been wild.


----------



## kimino

***** *****! Both have the skill(virus and *****), but ***** swag "está en otro nivel" (insert UG pose)


----------



## USAUSA1

Virus and Casas was on fire in this match.


----------



## kimino

Bobby work is sloppy, and what a suicide dive from Maya Jr.


----------



## USAUSA1

Maya Jr for the win


----------



## kimino

You gotta love CMLL crowds, Lucha for every age and genre


----------



## USAUSA1

Diddy and Nelly lol aka Dragon Lee


----------



## The Masked One

Watched Triplemania some days ago and started to pick up Lucha Underground. So far, so good!


----------



## kimino

Damn looking now at Valiente build, he sure did a lot of gym work.


----------



## USAUSA1

I miss Averno in cmll although he just had an awesome match with Myzteziz recently.


----------



## USAUSA1

kimino said:


> Damn looking now at Valiente build, he sure did a lot of gym work.


I know, hopefully he did it the right way.


----------



## kimino

Rey Escorpión vs Fail Batista


----------



## USAUSA1

Air Marco


----------



## USAUSA1

Did he jumped over the rope without touching it and did a hurricarana?


----------



## kimino

Amazing Valiente!



USAUSA1 said:


> Did he jumped over the rope without touching it and did a hurricarana?


Yes, and it was awesome! dangerous move if he were to fail


----------



## USAUSA1

Dragon Lee is approaching Aerostar craziness level.


----------



## kimino

ME time! hate this ring announcer, none touches Mucha Crema Gaytán best in the world!

Volador Voladooooooor Jr.

Hahaha that L.A Park theme! A corrido! the gap between this and his nitro theme


----------



## USAUSA1

https://mobile.twitter.com/Jocay19/status/637460711967469568/video/1

Dragon Lee


----------



## USAUSA1

Only if Santo returned......good old days


----------



## kimino

Rush vs LA Park
And LA Park vs Wagner

hyped


----------



## USAUSA1

Headbutts


----------



## kimino

Supplex City!


----------



## USAUSA1

Rush and Park so awesome


----------



## kimino

Los Ingobernables, hitting Rush and Wagner to enter fired up to the ring


----------



## USAUSA1

All Wagner do is pose


----------



## USAUSA1

Another Wagner pose


----------



## USAUSA1

Park and sombra chops fest


----------



## kimino

LA Park!


----------



## USAUSA1

Wild match. Crowd eating it up


----------



## USAUSA1

Park is crazy mane


----------



## USAUSA1

Oh shit, Wagner is freaking did something amazing


----------



## kimino

Los Rudos!


----------



## USAUSA1

My moty


----------



## kimino

Benoit music? 

Also agree MOTY candidate


----------



## Vårmakos

kimino said:


> Benoit music?
> 
> Also agree MOTY candidate


Rush has had Benoit's theme for a while. :lmao


----------



## USAUSA1

They delivered tonight


----------



## kimino

Vårmakos said:


> Rush has had Benoit's theme for a while. :lmao


LOL, usually skip the entrances when i watch cmll in youtube lol


----------



## USAUSA1

Lucha Libre at it finest


----------



## kimino

Expecting a MOTY in aniversario, and probabily La Sombra is going to lose his mask.


----------



## amhlilhaus

Watched the entire card, awesome. If it had cavernario, titan and both guerrero it'd have been complete.

I fucking love rush, him and LA park is gonna be good


----------



## pgi86

Loved the main event. LOVED it! What a fun match.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I didn't know you guys were doing the live thing on here. I would've joined in. 

The show really picked up with the cibernetico match. Virus getting a pin on Casas got a big pop in the building. The semi main was very good. Then of course the main was best. So much going on and they kept it pretty clean by their standards. Rush was so marking out for Dr Wagner. There is a moment where he just leans on the ropes and watches him like a little kid at the matches. Wagner is welcomed into Los Ingobernables through a common enemy bond. Eventhough they are insinuating Wagner/Atlantis being a thing too.

Idk, I don't want to make it more than it was. But they have something the fans want to see just as much as Rush/Park maybe?...A really fun mess and an excellent return for Wagner and LA Park.


----------



## USAUSA1

Wonder what camera angles Azteca America uses in two weeks ? Can they capture the same energy ?


----------



## kimino

I ♥ KEMONITO;51873977 said:


> I didn't know you guys were doing the live thing on here. I would've joined in.
> 
> The show really picked up with the cibernetico match. Virus getting a pin on Casas got a big pop in the building. The semi main was very good. Then of course the main was best. So much going on and they kept it pretty clean by their standards. Rush was so marking out for Dr Wagner. There is a moment where he just leans on the ropes and watches him like a little kid at the matches. Wagner is welcomed into Los Ingobernables through a common enemy bond. Eventhough they are insinuating Wagner/Atlantis being a thing too.
> 
> Idk, I don't want to make it more than it was. But they have something the fans want to see just as much as Rush/Park maybe?...A really fun mess and an excellent return for Wagner and LA Park.


Rush with the Wagner signal and Sombra being like stop man we're to cool for that

Does someone knows which matches are confirmed for Aniversario?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

kimino said:


> Does someone knows which matches are confirmed for Aniversario?


Only thing announced has been the mask match and Dark Angel farewell match (probably a trios).


----------



## pgi86

For those who missed it live, here's Park and Wagner's return match:

http://www.clarosports.com/lucha-li...estelar-del-viernes-28-de-agosto-cmll-100878/

No entrances in the video, sadly.

Also, *Wagner & Sombra vs. Atlantis & Park has been announced for next Friday*!


----------



## pgi86




----------



## amhlilhaus

Was it just me or was the crowd really crazy last night? I watch my lucha from cubs fan videos and maybe they have horrible crowd miking because it's always so quiet. 

Last night the crowd was rocking


----------



## xsw

It surely was poorly miked but the crowd was huge so it didn't matter. "Hardcore" cmll "fans" hated the main event, guess there's a point for the hate since all the press had "WAGNER AND PARK back!!!" and in small letters "Atlantis vs Sombra masks match"

Although people are thinking it only would make sense for Sombra to lose his mask if he's going to WWE, what about jumping to AAA? Some sort of Siglo XX / The Killer where someone loses his mask in ArMex and shows up in the rival promotion next day... Hijo del Fantasma has said he considers Sombra his best friend, and we know he's also very good friends with Mystezis, so much that he defied Paco's order and joined him at that street show last year, and he's surely a pretty big Rey Jr mark, so the possibility is there...


----------



## amhlilhaus

xsw said:


> It surely was poorly miked but the crowd was huge so it didn't matter. "Hardcore" cmll "fans" hated the main event, guess there's a point for the hate since all the press had "WAGNER AND PARK back!!!" and in small letters "Atlantis vs Sombra masks match"
> 
> Although people are thinking it only would make sense for Sombra to lose his mask if he's going to WWE, what about jumping to AAA? Some sort of Siglo XX / The Killer where someone loses his mask in ArMex and shows up in the rival promotion next day... Hijo del Fantasma has said he considers Sombra his best friend, and we know he's also very good friends with Mystezis, so much that he defied Paco's order and joined him at that street show last year, and he's surely a pretty big Rey Jr mark, so the possibility is there...


That would be cool. AAA is smaller than cmll so that would be alright with me, aaa gains, cmll can withstand that defection. Sombra to wwe? They can't use anyone hardly right, Sombra would be no different


----------



## Stetho

AAA is smaller ? :rockwut


----------



## amhlilhaus

Stetho said:


> AAA is smaller ?


No one knows from a financial stand point, but roster wise, hell yeah. Cmll is so big they have entire crews at their smaller arenas that never go anywhere else. It was roster size I was talking about.


----------



## Stetho

Oh, ok !


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Card for CMLL Arena Puebla show @ 9:00 PM CDT https://www.youtube.com/user/VideosOficialesCMLL

*MAIN EVENT*
POR EL CAMPEONATO MUNDIAL HISTÓRICO NWA
DE PESO MEDIO
LA SOMBRA®
(CAMPEÓN)
vs
(RETADOR)
ÚLTIMO GUERRERO
*SEMI-MAIN*
MARCO CORLEONE, MÁXIMO® Y LA MÁSCARA
vs
MR. NIEBLA®, SHOCKER Y ***** CASAS
*TERCERA*
SÚPER PORKY, BLUE PANTHER Y STUKA
vs
KRÁNEO, RIPPER Y EL OLÍMPICO
*SEGUNDA *
DELTA, GUERRERO MAYA Y STIGMA
vs
KAMAITACHI, OKUMURA Y MORPHOSIS
*PRIMERA*
MARCELA, VAQUERITA Y SKADI
vs
ZEUXIS, TIFFANY Y LA SEDUCTORA​
Looks like a thumbs in the middle show. Main might be good and be the only one going out of your way to see. Skipable show.


----------



## Vårmakos

Sombra just willingly loses his title? ROFL.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Vårmakos said:


> Sombra just willingly loses his title? ROFL.


Post match he does the Rudo thing. Says he doesn't even care and that its not important. What is important is that he is going to do what UG failed to do at 82nd Aniv and take Atlantis' mask. 

Excellent 1st and great 2nd fall..the finish was lackluster but what you would expect from this situation. I dug the match a lot. ***3/4+

Let this loss feed the rumors that Sombra is leaving. Njpw tag league doesn't begin untill late November.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

CMLL 82 ANIVERSARY @ 09/18/2015 Arena México

*PRIMERA* 
Esfinge, Fuego, The Panther vs Disturbio, Puma, Virus
*SEGUNDA *
Guerrero Maya Jr., Máximo, Stuka Jr. vs Dragón Rojo Jr., Pólvora, Rey Escorpión
*TERCERA
DARK ANGEL FAREWELL MATCH*
Dark Angel vs Princesa Sugehit
*CUARTA *
Felino, Mr. Niebla, ***** Casas vs Dragon Lee, Mistico, Valiente
*SEMI-MAIN*
Relevos Increibles
LA Park, Último Guerrero, Volador Jr. vs Dr. Wagner Jr., Rush, Thunder 
* MAIN EVENT 
MASCARA VS MASCARA*
Atlantis vs La Sombra 



There are noticable guys not booked for this show that probably should have been. Cavernario,Hechicero,El Terrible,Angel de Oro,Titan..some of the same names were left off last year aswell. No minis. But of course Niebla and Felino get booked.


----------



## USAUSA1

It's all about the main event.


----------



## amhlilhaus

I ♥ KEMONITO;52023281 said:


> CMLL 82 ANIVERSARY @ 09/18/2015 Arena México
> 
> *PRIMERA*
> Esfinge, Fuego, The Panther vs Disturbio, Puma, Virus
> *SEGUNDA *
> Guerrero Maya Jr., Máximo, Stuka Jr. vs Dragón Rojo Jr., Pólvora, Rey Escorpión
> *TERCERA
> DARK ANGEL FAREWELL MATCH*
> Dark Angel vs Princesa Sugehit
> *CUARTA *
> Felino, Mr. Niebla, ***** Casas vs Dragon Lee, Mistico, Valiente
> *SEMI-MAIN*
> Relevos Increibles
> LA Park, Último Guerrero, Volador Jr. vs Dr. Wagner Jr., Rush, Thunder
> * MAIN EVENT
> MASCARA VS MASCARA*
> Atlantis vs La Sombra
> 
> 
> 
> There are noticable guys not booked for this show that probably should have been. Cavernario,Hechicero,El Terrible,Angel de Oro,Titan..some of the same names were left off last year aswell. No minis. But of course Niebla and Felino get booked.


No titan or cavernario? BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

It took me over 20 years to learn to appreciate lucha libre. There's still lots about it I don't like, and things like this highlight it. How can you have your biggest card of the year, and not have your youngest and brightest stars on the card? You'll get a big crowd, and seeing the best you got is an investment in the future. Someone who doesn't normally go might go and fall in love with someone, then decide to go when they're on the card. It's like aaa not doing any build for their big cards, so weird.


----------



## USAUSA1

To be fair, the top two matches have their top young stars. As well as guys like Dragon Lee, Maya Jr.,etc. Lucha embrace all age groups, people like the veteran luchadores. 

Politics hurts both companies but they usually overcome it. Mexico is the only country with two successful major companies right now, must be doing something right.


----------



## amhlilhaus

USAUSA1 said:


> To be fair, the top two matches have their top young stars. As well as guys like Dragon Lee, Maya Jr.,etc. Lucha embrace all age groups, people like the veteran luchadores.
> 
> Politics hurts both companies but they usually overcome it. Mexico is the only country with two successful major companies right now, must be doing something right.


I was just thinking they could do things better, but one promotions 82 years old, the other is 23 or so, they know what they're doing


----------



## kimino

I know that aniversario will deliever, but i cant help but think that without Cavernario the card looks underwhealming.


----------



## Rah

I still don't understand the merit behind Sombra/Atlantis. Sure, the "story" can be stretched back to the bait & switch when Volador/Sombra had their apuesta instead, but Rush is the hotter act and more deserving of taking a legend's mask. Atlantis winning is stupid. What does it achieve? I'd guess CMLL are banking on Rush going over LA Park, and Sombra going face, again, for a hot main event programme in the future, but I really doubt Park sticks around. It's probably a matter of months before Park does something to get sour ties, again.



USAUSA1 said:


> It's all about the main event.


Unfortunately so. Yet another example of how lazy CMLL brass are, relying on Atlantis' draw to pop the gate. Rest of the card reads like you could get a better enjoyment from a random Tuesday show.


----------



## USAUSA1

I bet AAA trying to bait La Mascara to jump.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Atlantis has stated his dislike for taking on this "express" challenge. CMLL are in a hurry to get this mask match done. Like USAUSA1 suggested, it could be attributed to decline of the MXNPESO. Also the timing of Wagner and Park appearing does add uncertainty for future plans, for us on the outside. Would they have done things like this with out Park and Wagner joining? don't think so. Sombra should win, but Atlantis vs Wagner is the biggest match and story they have left unfinished that they can do. They could triple the prices for that one. 

Maybe Atlantis prefered to drop it to Sombra instead of Wagner? So before he even gets the chance, its done. You could spin it alot of ways.


----------



## USAUSA1

Should be a fun show tonight. Might watch it live again on here.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Here is the card for tonight @ 8:30CDT Streaming live here: http://www.clarosports.com/panamericanos/en-vivo/


----------



## Rah

Always late to the party, I finished up Triplemania and am quite surprised people jumped on the ending like they did.

The match and booking were perfect. Mistico, the idol of Mexico, made his triumphant return as the king. He's flashy, he's egotistical, but he has the speed to back it all up. The people loved him, and he loved the attention. Yet it all changed when Mysterio returned. He quickly became a shadow to his former peer. Relegated to a mere name-drop in articles, while Rey got the headlines. Mistico sought to prove the fans wrong, that he was the best and Mysterio was beyond his time. How does the match start? Mysterio being too quick for Mistico to gain advantage from. That perfectly fed into his ego causing him to snap; and snap he did with some vicious offence. AAA finally going for sturdy tables definitely aided the match - not sure Mistico's neck agrees but whatever.

Then came the post-match booking. It's Konnan and Perros Del Mal. The top heels in AAA. They want control, they want to be the ones in the spotlight. So what do you do to get that spotlight? Cause shit with the top babyface, and that they did here. Let us also not forget the animosity between Averno and Mistico, as well as what would have been Perro's (QEPD) disdain, too. They attacked both men, because they did not know about Mistico's burning anger. Frustrated by losing, Mistico turns rudo and beats the living shit out of Rey before challenging him to an apuesta. That's going to be the biggest match of this decade. Why would Konnan NOT want to interject his fat ass into that programme? He may be Rey's friend, but he's a megalomaniac first (note the confusion turn to cash signs in his eyes as this all goes down). The feed cut before Konnan could reveal his intentions, but Mistico backed off when he saw Perros Del Mal get into the ring. Konnan was hesitant, too. No swerve here. The beatdown was legitimate, while the truce was unplanned. I thought everything else on the show ranged from truly terrible to passable but this was perfectly done and meshed the established characters of everyone involved well.

I also love how everyone is missing the bigger picture here, too: MISTICO TAPPED TO HIS OWN SUBMISSION CLEAN. That shocked me. :lol


----------



## USAUSA1

A potential mask match would be HUGE. If Rey can get permission to lose his mask again. They have a storyline to push it over the top. We're talking soccer stadium.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

USAUSA1 said:


> A potential mask match would be HUGE. If Rey can get permission to lose his mask again. They have a storyline to push it over the top. We're talking soccer stadium.


People won't go for it. IF they can get Myzteziz hot enough, maybe. But if right now, you ask people that go to the arenas, they will reject it and turn on Mysterio/AAA. They have to be delicate because the fans know. Its good that they have Alberto on hand as backup. 

Great match but unfortunately overshadowed by the bad. 

CMLL will do IPPV for 82 Aniversario Show. $10 usd. It is unknown who will be streaming it. Would be wonderful if Youtube did because the quality of stream of Arena Puebla has been superb. Clarosports tends to get choppy and switch low res to hi res. Either way an excellent value. If only they had priced it $9.99.


----------



## amhlilhaus

I ♥ KEMONITO;52075305 said:


> USAUSA1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> A potential mask match would be HUGE. If Rey can get permission to lose his mask again. They have a storyline to push it over the top. We're talking soccer stadium.
> 
> 
> 
> People won't go for it. IF they can get Myzteziz hot enough, maybe. But if right now, you ask people that go to the arenas, they will reject it and turn on Mysterio/AAA. They have to be delicate because the fans know. Its good that they have Alberto on hand as backup.
> 
> Great match but unfortunately overshadowed by the bad.
> 
> CMLL will do IPPV for 82 Aniversario Show. $10 usd. It is unknown who will be streaming it. Would be wonderful if Youtube did because the quality of stream of Arena Puebla has been superb. Clarosports tends to get choppy and switch low res to hi res. Either way an excellent value. If only they had priced it $9.99.
Click to expand...

Anniversary show $10? No thanks. Cards not strong enough


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Arena Mexico show was really good. All the matches with exception of the lighting match were good (***or better). All the guys put in a good effort and another good crowd. I reccomend Atlantis/Park vs Wagner/Sombra, Angel de Oro/Rey Cometa/Stuka vs Mephisto/Ephesto/Kamaitachi. Stuka/Mephisto is something that they should program to main event Puebla. The interaction between those 2 left me wanting more. The match with Porky AND Blue Panther was surprisingly good. 

The main started hot but a little too choreographed for my taste. Then it turned into a mess. Brawling all around, weapons/objects, at one point Sombra/Atlantis were 8 rows deep in the aisle brawling until a guy with an earpiece told them to get back in the ring. The finish was terrible. 

Postmatch Sombra got the microphone and stated his intent on taking Atlantis mask.. Sombra ended it by offering Wagner a place as an Ingobernable. He is not a good promo.Then Wagner got to do one, and that made Sombra seem even worse. Wagner suggested Park put his mask on the line but did not mention whether he was joining Ingobernables or not...Then LA Park scrambled for the mic and basically told everyone to go fuck themselves.


----------



## USAUSA1

Damn,I couldn't watch tonight.

Next Friday show looks stack.


----------



## pgi86

Tuned in for the main event last night. Fun match, but definitely not on the level of last week's super hot main event. Every time Wagner and Park would face off the crowd would go crazy. That and how the match ended completely made Sombra vs. Atlantis seem like an afterthought compared to Wagner vs. Park. Park's response to Wagner's challenge was hilarious. 

Next's week line-up is out. Sombra and Atlantis are in the semi-main, while Wagner, Rush & Corleone vs. La Familia Real (LA Park, Volador & Super Parka) headlines. Cool! That should be a fun match too. Also, the card has ***** Casas, Barbaro Cavernario and Hechicero as a trio. Nice!


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Sombra held his own in a the ring with 3 legendary names. It was when he spoke, I felt like "really?, this is THE guy?" I'm sure I wasn't the only one. Hopefully Wagner's charisma will rub off on him. 









How good would this show have been 20 years ago?..its happening today, and after the luchas there will be a dance. 



Spoiler


----------



## USAUSA1

Legendary show, hopefully someone film it.


----------



## Stetho

Rah said:


> Always late to the party, I finished up Triplemania and am quite surprised people jumped on the ending like they did.
> 
> The match and booking were perfect. Mistico, the idol of Mexico, made his triumphant return as the king. He's flashy, he's egotistical, but he has the speed to back it all up. The people loved him, and he loved the attention. Yet it all changed when Mysterio returned. He quickly became a shadow to his former peer. Relegated to a mere name-drop in articles, while Rey got the headlines. Mistico sought to prove the fans wrong, that he was the best and Mysterio was beyond his time. How does the match start? Mysterio being too quick for Mistico to gain advantage from. That perfectly fed into his ego causing him to snap; and snap he did with some vicious offence. AAA finally going for sturdy tables definitely aided the match - not sure Mistico's neck agrees but whatever.
> 
> Then came the post-match booking. It's Konnan and Perros Del Mal. The top heels in AAA. They want control, they want to be the ones in the spotlight. So what do you do to get that spotlight? Cause shit with the top babyface, and that they did here. Let us also not forget the animosity between Averno and Mistico, as well as what would have been Perro's (QEPD) disdain, too. They attacked both men, because they did not know about Mistico's burning anger. Frustrated by losing, Mistico turns rudo and beats the living shit out of Rey before challenging him to an apuesta. That's going to be the biggest match of this decade. Why would Konnan NOT want to interject his fat ass into that programme? He may be Rey's friend, but he's a megalomaniac first (note the confusion turn to cash signs in his eyes as this all goes down). The feed cut before Konnan could reveal his intentions, but Mistico backed off when he saw Perros Del Mal get into the ring. Konnan was hesitant, too. No swerve here. The beatdown was legitimate, while the truce was unplanned. I thought everything else on the show ranged from truly terrible to passable but this was perfectly done and meshed the established characters of everyone involved well.
> 
> I also love how everyone is missing the bigger picture here, too: MISTICO TAPPED TO HIS OWN SUBMISSION CLEAN. That shocked me. :lol


The post match, the turn and the Perros del Mal coming were great. But the match itself was too short for a "dream match" and I can't stand Mistico taping to his own submission.

As for CMLL, I can't watch it on the live stream posted here because of the time difference


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Some nice lady is periscoping the Leyendas show. Its up in parts get the links off her twitter https://twitter.com/NancyBailon


----------



## USAUSA1

L.A. Park is out


----------



## USAUSA1

*Match Of The Year*






*Dragon Lee © vs Kamaitachi for the CMLL World Super Lightweight Championship *

Simply amazing and that spot on the top of the stairs was crazy. Dragon Lee has become my new favorite wrestler. I hope NJPW or WWE doesn't snatch him up, he needs to stay in CMLL and become the greatest.


----------



## amhlilhaus

USAUSA1 said:


> L.A. Park is out


Injury?


----------



## USAUSA1

amhlilhaus said:


> Injury?


Nope,no one really knows yet.Definitely not an injury.


----------



## amhlilhaus

Even with him off the card, friday will be great


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

The official reasoning for the CMLL/Park split was the insult he made post-match. Telling the crowd to go "fuck their mothers". Such a lame/bullshit reason, given that peope say that and much worse at these shows. You would probably hear that "insult" over 100 times at a lucha show. Meanwhile Los Ingobernables physically fought fans and physically threatened fans were ONLY suspended. 

I hope this is an angle to set up a run in. Because if they didn't want LA Park to say anything, the audio tech should have cut the mic after Wagner was done.

and YES Dragon Lee vs Kamaitachi is a MOTYC as was Virus/Cerebro, my top 2 luchas this year. 

Fuerza Guerrera very recently said he would put his mask on the line against ***** Casas. Lets hope he can slimeball his way back into CMLL, it would be perfect timing.


----------



## Rah

Parka:lmao

Dude just cannot help himself. Hopefully some Indy money mark blows a load of pesos CMLL's way and books the Rush/Park apuesta. Running it with no blood and limited violence would be rather lame.



I ♥ KEMONITO;52192001 said:


> Fuerza Guerrera very recently said he would put his mask on the line against ***** Casas. Lets hope he can slimeball his way back into CMLL, it would be perfect timing.


Would explain the little run of matches they've been doing on the indies. Loved how Leyendas Inmortales just changed the title of their latest show to FUERZA VS ***** CASAS, hoping to catch some more views. Too bad it was just a cut down version of the Vamper Revolution show. The original is just 30 minutes of Casas being the greatest comic. When he retires, lucha will be losing something oh so special.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Atlantis/Octagon vs Ultimo Guerrero/Fuerza Guerrera 
Fun match, crowd was into it. Just marvel at them pull their strings. Good for what it was. Octagon is really overweight. Still he manages to nail a successful tope. The finish will have you laughing.






L.A Park y Rayo de Jalisco Jr vs Dr. Wagner Jr y Blue Demon Jr en LUCHA SONORA II 
Purely a comical meeting. Nobody wants to bump. Shennanigans all around. Poor Rayo finally gets a booking and this happens to him. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXAYQdbxCFM

The same channel also has Mil Máscaras-Dos Caras y Canek vs Los Brazos. I would love to hear what Meltzer would say about it. Worst of the worst. Soo bad its good.

AAA seems to have booked indy star Mike Bailey "Speedball". Here is the card that lists Speedball. I hope its him and not a rebranded talent.


Spoiler


----------



## MR-Bolainas

I ♥ KEMONITO;52206209 said:


> Atlantis/Octagon vs Ultimo Guerrero/Fuerza Guerrera
> Fun match, crowd was into it. Just marvel at them pull their strings. Good for what it was. Octagon is really overweight. Still he manages to nail a successful tope. The finish will have you laughing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.A Park y Rayo de Jalisco Jr vs Dr. Wagner Jr y Blue Demon Jr en LUCHA SONORA II
> Purely a comical meeting. Nobody wants to bump. Shennanigans all around. Poor Rayo finally gets a booking and this happens to him.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXAYQdbxCFM
> 
> The same channel also has Mil Máscaras-Dos Caras y Canek vs Los Brazos. I would love to hear what Meltzer would say about it. Worst of the worst. Soo bad its good.
> 
> AAA seems to have booked indy star Mike Bailey "Speedball". Here is the card that lists Speedball. I hope its him and not a rebranded talent.
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Could also be Flamita but he was presented last time as "Fireball" so i don't think so. CMLL card's now so average but at least they have now a ippv.


----------



## USAUSA1

Flamita is Fireball and Bailey is Speedball, interesting. AAA line ups is looking stack. Rey is working a lot. I wish Ricochet would work the shows as Prince Puma since everybody else from LU is working AAA dates. AAA and CMLL talent roster is crazy right now. So much young talent.


----------



## Corey

If that is "Speedball" Mike Bailey, then damn, that kid is having one hell of a breakout year. Now being booked by AAA after bursting onto the PWG scene. Sucks that AAA uses all those guys but it's all tag matches. That style just doesn't interest me. Mysterio vs. Mundo in a singles would be nice. Maybe if LU ever comes back for a second season...


----------



## Vårmakos

Jack Evans 187 said:


> If that is "Speedball" Mike Bailey, then damn, that kid is having one hell of a breakout year. Now being booked by AAA after bursting onto the PWG scene. Sucks that AAA uses all those guys but it's all tag matches. That style just doesn't interest me. Mysterio vs. Mundo in a singles would be nice. Maybe if LU ever comes back for a second season...


Why do you despise tag matches so much? If they spammed singles every card, they would throw away potential money matches (see: WWE).


----------



## Corey

Vårmakos said:


> Why do you despise tag matches so much? If they spammed singles every card, they would throw away potential money matches (see: WWE).


Haha. I don't despise tag matches at all. I just don't like Lucha style tag matches. They don't follow the same formula that I enjoy watching and sometimes I can't even follow them. There's usually people doing whatever they want, interference, no structure, etc. New Japan and Lucha often times do cards with nothing but 7 or 8 tag matches and I just don't have any interest in watching that. I just like a good mixture of both. :shrug


----------



## USAUSA1

Clarosports possibly could have had an issue with Park since they didn't post the video of the main event.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

USAUSA1 said:


> Clarosports possibly could have had an issue with Park since they didn't post the video of the main event.


On CMLL Informa (weekly cmll info show), the host stated to the public that LA Park left on good terms and that the doors would be open to him for a return. Volardor jr and Super Parka were guests and pushed for the idea that he will return and form the trio to take on Ingobernables or Guerreros. 

I got the feeling LA Park will return to CMLL.


----------



## xsw

LA Park was probably busy the weekend surfing Televisa channels for the show... then someone told him "oh, no CMLL is not with Televisa anymore", Tapia: "Then what the fuck I'm doing working there at all!!!" PSA: "LA Park has left the building."

>


----------



## USAUSA1

Meltzer said one of the sponsors complained about Park language. Can't F with the money.


----------



## USAUSA1

Aaa got Rey and Mundo working house shows too but ADR is nowhere on the cards. I think it's time to put the title on Myzteziz.


----------



## amhlilhaus

USAUSA1 said:


> Aaa got Rey and Mundo working house shows too but ADR is nowhere on the cards. I think it's time to put the title on Myzteziz.


Not a chance. AAA mega champions get a year long reign minimum


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Now Dr Wagner Jr. is out of Aniversario 82:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/642414871645024256
and Marco Corleone is in

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/642406978938007552
Glad AAA will have Johnny Mundo after Heroes Inmortales (I hope it happens)


----------



## Stetho

So they just lost LA Park and Wagner less than one month after their arrival ?


----------



## USAUSA1

I can't even blame CMLL, those guys have a history of being headaches and not reliable. Same with Hijo Del Santo and Juvy, it's such a shame.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Could mean he is not happy with Sombra being the one to take Atlantis mask. Probably thought he was going to be the one. Doesn't mean he is gone for good, but this is worse than what Park did.


----------



## Vårmakos

>Cavernario still isn't booked

I'm guessing Wagner lost interest when LA Park was taken off the card.


----------



## xsw

What history of Wagner, Park and Santo Jr being unreliable? That's just Konana's usual BS, tons of people have talked highly of them, including Tercera Caida guys, and several promoters, and they still get booked, Wagner even gets to work in the Lucha World Cup... and has been working with AAA in spot shows, even to this day...

It's about the money,neither CMLL nor the Roldans want to pay them their asking price, since it is pretty high and, in all fairness, AAA doesn't need Wagner or Park (CMLL maybe), but local promoters will cover the fees. In CMLL, they have a strict paying structure, based on the gate and place in the card, Wagner was to main event tonight's show, LA Park was fired, the gate goes down, moved to semifinal, his paycheck is cut down. Wagner would work opening match as long as he is paid what he asked for, CMLL is going to pay him less, Wagner leaves. 

So it's all on CMLL

Watch for Park and Wagner to run in during Heroes Inmortales... :draper2:


----------



## amhlilhaus

What do the top guys in mexico make?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

amhlilhaus said:


> What do the top guys in mexico make?


On the Alberto Del Rio RF shoot interview he says he would make $700 usd per show when things were going good iirc. No idea what it is now, but thats sounds like a good ball park figure for what Arena Mexico pays out for upper card. I have seen a recent interview of El Dandy claiming IWRG pays its guys as little as 25,30,80 pesos.


----------



## USAUSA1

Cmll said Wagner called them and quit .


----------



## USAUSA1

Puerto Rican theme mini's , my favorite


----------



## amhlilhaus

I ♥ KEMONITO;52268777 said:


> amhlilhaus said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do the top guys in mexico make?
> 
> 
> 
> On the Alberto Del Rio RF shoot interview he says he would make $700 usd per show when things were going good iirc. No idea what it is now, but thats sounds like a good ball park figure for what Arena Mexico pays out for upper card. I have seen a recent interview of El Dandy claiming IWRG pays its guys as little as 25,30,80 pesos.
Click to expand...

700 us, that might be huge money in mexico


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Angel de Oro and Virus in this next match.


----------



## USAUSA1

Panther magic


----------



## USAUSA1

That tope


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

stream is really choppy.


----------



## USAUSA1

My stream is perfect so far


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

BP nailed Virus on the chin with that tope.


----------



## USAUSA1

Angel spot of the night


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Virus sumbits Blue Panther. Master.


----------



## USAUSA1

Great match


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Next is La Máscara, Stuka Jr., Titán vs Cavernario, Hechicero, ***** Casas


----------



## USAUSA1

Here we go


----------



## USAUSA1

Now my stream messing up


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Cavernario now working the worm into his selling.


----------



## USAUSA1

Kemonito splash on Hechicero


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Building up for the conjuro on Kemonito


----------



## USAUSA1

Crazy finish


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Show has been good. Guys not on the big show showing the office what they missed out on.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Valiente replacing Park and Maximo replaces Wagner.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Everybody jumps Rush on the ramp. lol


----------



## USAUSA1

Air Marco


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Rush vs Super Parka = zero heat


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Up next is, Atlantis, Euforia, Último Guerrero vs La Sombra, Rey Escorpión, Thunder


----------



## Vårmakos

:lmao


----------



## USAUSA1

Thunder should jump to aaa and become Matanza


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

What a finish. Hyped for the aniversary show.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

That awful finish fpalm

They did the same finish last monday but with Mr Niebla vs La Mascara.


----------



## shlegglete

Can anyone recommend some bloody matches from any era? If possible that would be great.


----------



## Corey

shlegglete said:


> Can anyone recommend some bloody matches from any era? If possible that would be great.






















Parts 2 and 3 on the side.


----------



## Stetho

Psycho Clown vs Texano is pretty bloody too if I remember


----------



## Rah




----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Any Villanos vs Missioneros de la muerte is a guarantee for blood.


----------



## USAUSA1




----------



## shlegglete

Thanks everybody.


----------



## USAUSA1

Rumor going around both Marisela and Paco agreed to blackball Wagner. Wow

I guess this will include indies not booking cmll/aaa wrestlers on the same shows as Wagner. Definitely can hurt Wagner pockets.


----------



## shlegglete

What are peoples opinions about Último Guerrero?


----------



## Rah

I'd guess losing his mask reinvigorated his career, and he's been turning it up every now and then, but Ultimo's a guy I'd have no problem with if I never watched a match of his again. More than anything, there's just too much great wrestling, and better wrestlers with more enjoyable pasts, for me to justify giving him time. I'm clearly almost alone in that thought, though.


----------



## pgi86

Ultimo Guerrero to me is the type of wrestler who one would enjoy watching a lot if one is a more casual viewer and watching his matches only every once in a while. Once you start watching him regularly though, especially his singles matches, you get tired of him really fast because typically his matches follow the exact same formula every time. That said, in the past year he's strayed away from his formula a few times and each time it has been great, but those are rare occurrences. Typically you always get the same old stuff from him and it's cool stuff, but once you see it multiple times it gets boring and predictable.


----------



## USAUSA1

Before Friday, which mask matches should I watch ?


----------



## pgi86

I'm planning on re-watching the last two anniversary main events. I LOVED both of them at the time so I'm curious to see how well they hold up on second viewing and without the extra bonus of watching them live via stream.


----------



## USAUSA1

Panther vs Villano v and Aerostar vs Super Fly are on my list. I probably watch the last two anniversary matches the night before.


----------



## Rah

Definitely go into this years show having watched the past two main events. They'll be played off, I'm sure.


----------



## Corey

Rah said:


>


Definitely watch this one if you guys haven't seen it. One of the best Lucha matches I've ever seen. Didn't know this was on Youtube. (Y)


----------



## USAUSA1

The ippv can only be seen live, no VOD.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Been seeing the results from the recent AAA shows. Myzteziz and Rey is starting to heat up. Myzteziz declared he wants to take his mask on the 9/11 AAA show, and hinted a partner to help him acomplish his goal. At the same time he denied Konnan's offer to join his alliance. So we got a mystery partner showing up soon i guess. The potential problem would be the people feeling insulted by the promotion by running this program. There are people that feel this way already. I think if they get Myzteziz hot enough they can pull it out. 

Agree about UG's match structure. Since losing his mask, he's been a top babyface for CMLL. I think he is very good. Just needs to be programed by cmll correctly to get the more out of him. But that may not be their fault. I know about the massive egos of luchadores and how difficult they can be to work with/protective.


----------



## USAUSA1

Mundo?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

USAUSA1 said:


> Mundo?


Sombra is the rumor. But that seems like wishful thinking.


----------



## shlegglete

Has anyone heard of a guy named Rey Apocolipsis?


----------



## amhlilhaus

shlegglete said:


> Has anyone heard of a guy named Rey Apocolipsis?


Saw it on cubsfan site?


----------



## USAUSA1

Sombra joining aaa would take away from Myzteziz trying to become the top heel. And further push Pentagon and Fantasma down the card. It would be great for lucha underground though.


----------



## amhlilhaus

USAUSA1 said:


> Sombra joining aaa would take away from Myzteziz trying to become the top heel. And further push Pentagon and Fantasma down the card. It would be great for lucha underground though.


Not everybody in aaa is in lucha underground. It would suck for pentagon and fantasma. Im sure if you asked them, theyd rather be top stars in aaa than lucha underground.


----------



## xsw

Sombra is well liked, but the 2000 ultra "CMLL" hardcore fans who buy the better seats at ArMex hate him, mostly because he's Brillante Jr and that's a AAA gimmick. Sombra gimmick is owned by EMLL, there even was a Sombra in the 80s.

He could jump to AAA with his Brillante Jr gimmick and cut a promo on how he was forced to be someone he wasn't in the other "empresa", then they need to have his uncle, who's the original Pentagon showing up and endorsing him to continue the legacy, and there you have Sombra/Brillante Jr vs Pentagon Jr right there, work with what they have and you end up with Mystezis, Brillante Jr and Hijo del Fantasma vs Rey Mysterio, Pentagon and Fenix, as the main event feud leading to AAAmania 25 (2017), since Rey has lost his mask they probably need to have it with a retirement match instead of a mask match, with hair and masks matches in the undercard.


----------



## Corey

*Mask vs. Hair*
Texano Jr. vs. Psycho Clown (_AAA Triplemania XXII_)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hciU9GyHO40

Random thought that doesn't necessarily apply to the match. Texano had such a resemblance to Triple H during this time frame I feel like. I couldn't get that out of my head while watching. That and Hector Garza. Only two guys I could see.  Anyway, I thought this was a slew of fun. Both guys bled buckets and the twists and turns were well done throughout. A lot of nearfalls but they never really went overboard and the finish was something I've never seen before. Great stuff. ******

*Mask vs. Mask*
Atlantis vs. Ultimo Guerrero (_CMLL 81st Anniversary Show_)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePqN8RvEX04

14 years prior to this, Alantis wrestled arguably one of the greatest matches of all time against Villano III, and this motherfucker STILL has his mask in 2014!? :lol Must be a big star, huh? This is really interesting to watch right after seeing Texano/Psycho because these companies have two completely ways of pulling off mask matches and I can appreciate both. The first two falls, while not memorable in the long run, had some really nifty transitions that went to quick finishes. The overall quality of the match was gonna be decided by the 3rd fall and it was one HELL of a fall. The biggest takeaway I got from this was how extremely fluent every sequence was. Everything went without a hitch and it was really nice. They didn't take too many risks but when they did it felt like a pretty big deal. One particular spot I really liked is when Guerrero avoided the Atlantida for the second time in the 3rd fall by grabbing the ropes and he came up looking clearly dizzy and disoriented. Wonderful touch. So yeah, I really liked this match while disliking the finish. Didn't like how Atlantis no sold the reverse suplex off the top rope and went right into the submission. Quick tap again kinda sucks too, but what can ya do. An otherwise excellent contest. My first time seeing Guerrero and I liked what I saw for sure. ******


----------



## Rah

The difference is rather remarkable; traditional, if less violent, apuesta compared to a very Americanized match with a face in peril throughout. I cannot recall the match they based the formula off of, but it's definitely the challenge match that would have gone off better with an American market than Bryan/Cage. Not to say the latter wasn't "Westernised", but Psycho/Texano probably would have gotten quite a few mentions in the MotY thread, if so. It's a formula that just works. EC3/Spud ran it this year and I cannot think of a single person that didn't love that match. If you take it from a critical angle, the body of work in Texano/Psycho wasn't too great, but the emotion is what drove us as fans.

Great stuff.


----------



## shlegglete

amhlilhaus said:


> Saw it on cubsfan site?


Yeah.


----------



## GetDown




----------



## USAUSA1

Texano and Psycho should have main evented last year Mania but I think ADR debut is what stop them.

I re-watched Panther vs. Villano V, Volador Jr vs. Sombra and Aerostar vs. Super Fly mask matches. All three are great matches for different reasons.

Panther vs. Villano V was your classic lucha match and there was a lot of emotion. It felt like the biggest match ever. I remember when they first announce the match, I was like they couldn't find anyone better than Villano V. I was so wrong, he was the perfect guy to take the mask.

Volador Jr/Sombra was an amazing workrate match. They went all out. It was the type of match that would appeal to the hardcore American and Puro fans. 

Aerostar/Super Fly was bloody, both guys stole the show and Aerostar did his insane dive from top. This match should have been at Triplemania. That way, we would have avoided that stupid Sexy Star/Super Fly mask match.


----------



## Corey

Is Atlantis/La Sombra gonna be the biggest age difference between two opponents squaring off in a mask match in lucha history? 27 year difference there. Feel like it's gotta be close. 

And obviously Sombra is losing right? Atlantis will never drop the mask I'm assuming.



Rah said:


> The difference is rather remarkable; traditional, if less violent, apuesta compared to a very Americanized match with a face in peril throughout. I cannot recall the match they based the formula off of, but it's definitely the challenge match that would have gone off better with an American market than Bryan/Cage. Not to say the latter wasn't "Westernised", but Psycho/Texano probably would have gotten quite a few mentions in the MotY thread, if so. It's a formula that just works. EC3/Young ran it this year and I cannot think of a single person that didn't love that match. If you take it from a critical angle, the body of work in Texano/Psycho wasn't too great, but the emotion is what drove us as fans.
> 
> Great stuff.


It's really strange how much I liked Texano/Psycho in comparison to Alberto/Cage. I just didn't feel any emotion in this year's match at all. It was just some stuff happening and a bunch of chair shots. Felt a hell of a lot shorter as well. 

EC3/Young? I can't recall this match. Do you mean Rockstar Spud?



USAUSA1 said:


> that stupid Sexy Star/Super Fly mask match.


That felt like a such a disgrace when they ran that match. Pointless.


----------



## xsw

Santo vs Bobby Lee, Santo was 60 in that one...


----------



## Rah

El Santo's a guy I've been trying to see more of. Outside of his retirement match, is there even a full match of his online/available? I've kind of had to rely on old Lucha movies and clips to get a feel of the guy, which is never ideal. What I have seen, though, is that he's gracefully quick and so clean in his execution. There's a headscissor in his mask match against El Espanto Sr that I thought for sure wouldn't land yet he tweaked in mid-air and nailed it. The lack of anything earlier than the 80s is really depressing.

Any thoughts on El Nieto Del Espanto? He's currently running on cards in CMLL as Espanto Jr. 29, but he's been around 14 years so I'd assume he's shown about as much as he can at this point. It'd be great to see the feud between Santo & Espanto reach the third generation when El Nieto Del Santo debuts, but it has big shoes to fill. Shoes that may have been better in cousin Sombra's hands.





Jack Evans 187 said:


> EC3/Young? I can't recall this match. Do you mean Rockstar Spud?



Yes :evil


----------



## xsw

The Santo vs Espanto mask match is shown in a movie (Hacha Mortal or something like that) for a big chunk, and someone might have a full(er) version, other movies have some studio matches or even arena matches with el Santo, it is rumored that Televisa had a ton of tapes with lucha, but it was lost during the 85 earthquake that destroyed most of Televisa's building, although lucha was banned from TV from most of 50s, 80s, and all of 60s and 70s, so why would they be taping it? During the luchadors strike, they did show a match from the 60s with El Solitario, Polo Torres and El Rebelde... so who knows...

Televisa Guadalajara and Monterrey are likely to have tons of tapes from their local shows as well, but I doubt there will ever be any interest in releasing them, or it would even be possible with all the rights involved.

Espanto Jr (Sombra's uncle) was not the real Espanto (II) son, they had an agreement. Fantasy booking last year's Gran Alternativa, I had Nieto del Espanto on it, and them pulling a remake of the one where Okamura and friends beat up Semental, here Sombra would take Espanto gimmick for himself... which is a much stronger gimmick than Sombra anyways, although with no Santo to feud, is kinda missing something.


----------



## USAUSA1

It's official, Cmll wrestlers(and aaa wrestlers from what was rumored) can no longer be on the same shows as LA PARK and Wagner. Talk about fn up the money. All because PARK wanted to be a dick on the mic.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

USAUSA1 said:


> It's official, Cmll wrestlers(and aaa wrestlers from what was rumored) can no longer be on the same shows as LA PARK and Wagner. Talk about fn up the money. All because PARK wanted to be a dick on the mic.


They are truly married with eachother now. Rush said on an interview after last friday's match that he didn't believe that they got rid of Park because of what he said and hinted that maybe someone wanted him out. He clearly disagrees with CMLL on this situation. 

It does bug me when people go on about how great certain people were in another era when absolutely no video exists. Like I have always wanted to see prime Solitario. Never have I found more than 2 mins of a match of his in his best years. People always put him in their top 5. I've only managed to see a handful of matches when he was unmotivated/lazy well past his prime. 

Espanto Jr. really hasn't shown to be much more than a 2nd match guy. There is a big pool of guys at that level that cmll has access to, so I can't see big things for him.


----------



## Rah

That Solitario match XSW talks about is online in chunks, last time I looked. But I get you, it's rather hilarious when people do that. I can understand rating someone like Santo or Blue Demon based on popularity, but judging them as workers is strange. It happens a lot, on this forum, for North American guys (even for those who have matches online). Thesz is "the greatest of all time", yet they cannot name a single reason as to why. With the explosion of footage from the mid-20th Century over the last year and a half, there's no more excuses.


XSW dropping a hard truth bomb with regard to why there's a lack of footage. Lucha must be the most frustrating sport to exist. I think I'm going to spend some time this week searching for random tags in Google, Dailymotion & Youtube on the off chance I find SOMETHING. You'd be surprised at how many great old matches I've found from France and Japan that people uploaded years ago under stupidly unhelpful names like "lutte" and "vintage"



xsw said:


> The Santo vs Espanto mask match is shown in a movie (Hacha Mortal or something like that) for a big chunk, and someone might have a full(er) version


Any idea how long the Espanto/Santo match goes in that movie? El Espectro del Estrangulador is the movie I got my version from and it's only 5 minutes long. I should send a message to guys like DJ Spectro Jr as they're continually reviewing old matches (as well as uploading some every now and again). El Santo, Santo Jr/Black Terry and that Eddie Guerrero/Casas apuesta are the holy grails I'd probably drop a disgusting amount of money on to have.



USAUSA1 said:


> It's official, Cmll wrestlers(and aaa wrestlers from what was rumored) can no longer be on the same shows as LA PARK and Wagner. Talk about fn up the money. All because PARK wanted to be a dick on the mic.












Again: Lucha must be the most frustrating sport to exist.


----------



## amhlilhaus

Lucha is definitely different. Im more frustrated that cmll and aaa wait until a couple of weeks before their big shows to even try and set them up. They make wwe seem like lucha underground in that respect.


----------



## USAUSA1

I can't remember a recent big lucha show from CMLL and AAA where every match had a feud behind it. In AAA case, they went for nostalgia for Triplemania. I actually thought Triplemania wasn't that bad match wise but they should have save the Aerostar/Super Fly match for Triplemania. Obviously, Perro dying affected Triplemania for this year and next year. In CMLL case, Park and Wagner(like I predicted) couldn't behave for a month. 

With that being said, Atlantis vs. La Sombra is all the fans care about. They can sell the place out without an under card. That's how big this match is in my personal opinion. People want to be a part of history. I am trying to think of a match this year with more or equal historic significance.


----------



## amhlilhaus

USAUSA1 said:


> I can't remember a recent big lucha show from CMLL and AAA where every match had a feud behind it. In AAA case, they went for nostalgia for Triplemania. I actually thought Triplemania wasn't that bad match wise but they should have save the Aerostar/Super Fly match for Triplemania. Obviously, Perro dying affected Triplemania for this year and next year. In CMLL case, Park and Wagner(like I predicted) couldn't behave for a month.
> 
> With that being said, Atlantis vs. La Sombra is all the fans care about. They can sell the place out without an under card. That's how big this match is in my personal opinion. People want to be a part of history. I am trying to think of a match this year with more or equal historic significance.


Just curious, why is it so big? Yes atlantis is a legrnd, but is sombra really a huge deal in mexico? If it was something you couldnt believe, like atlantis vs rush, mask vs hair i could buy as a mega deal. Rushs hair is so awesome cant see him without it and obviously atlantis mask. So why sombra?


----------



## USAUSA1

Like you said, Atlantis is a legend and getting closer to retirement. That in itself is a big sell. Sombra is their hottest young guy since Mistico and are they willing to take his mask off this early? Sombra losing his mask can be a sign, he might be jumping to AAA or WWE soon. So many factors but the chance to see Atlantis lose his mask is a part of history. How many legit historic moments we have left in wrestling? Other than Cena tieing or breaking Flair's record, I can't really think of anything else. Of course Park and Wagner losing their mask would be huge too.

Random note, if LA Park lose his mask, what will happen to LA Parka mask in AAA?


----------



## xsw

Rah said:


> Any idea how long the Espanto/Santo match goes in that movie? El Espectro del Estrangulador is the movie I got my version from and it's only 5 minutes long.


Yeah, I thought it was longer... and half of those 5 minutes are re-enacted in studio :surprise: I think they've shown more footage in documentaries so I don't think they were lost in the earthquake, it is just that there's no interest in releasing them. The match was too bloody to make it to the screen so they were using some very wide angles in news shows at the time... I think Hacha Diabolica has Santo vs an already unmasked Espanto, they all mesh together... :frown2:

El Solitario was 39 when he died, so he probably was not past his prime, but it often happens that once someone makes to a certain level, they can mail it in and no one will say anything. I've seen a few matches or segments, and it seems that he was relying in the comedy stuff (that Rayo JR and Park(a) would also use).


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

xsw said:


> El Solitario was 39 when he died, so he probably was not past his prime, but it often happens that once someone makes to a certain level, they can mail it in and no one will say anything.


I've only seen a couple of early/mid 80s luchas from him. I've been told early/mid 70's was the best part of his career. I was born too late to really understand what I saw at the shows I went to as a kid. You do find some small gems in the luchador movies. Like you get to see how incredibly athletic Blue Demon was. Or how legit some of the luchas looked backed then. 

To answer amhlilhaus, Sombra is not seen on the same level as Atlantis. I don't think it has to do with talent necessarily but by what Atlantis has done in his career. Alot of it has to do with guys leaving and not passing on the torch. Or they milk some of those guys relentlessly and throws away credibility. 

There are fans that think Sombra will win just for the reason that they are building to the future. But you have diehard fans too, that believe that Atlantis is cmll's last big name idol, and shouldn't lose his mask. He is too valuable to unmask.

I believe Sombra was chosen because he already holds equity with fans and has unmasked Volador jr. Who is their top babyface right now. If not, up there with Casas. A mask vs mask is the bigger deal to people and Sombra is the most prestigous rudo mask they have atm. Was this the plan? I doubt it.

They both were interviewed today at 12:30 cdt. Atlantis gave me the impression he is losing. By his body language and was talking really fast. Sombra showed he is not that good of an interview. Nothing noteworthy was said. Just the usual.

Probably Sombra wins. But I think Sombra losing the mask would help his career. A draw would be so fucking stupid that I wouldn't put it past cmll.

USAUSA1, they are observed as seperate people/gimmicks. They are free to do what they please with either. According to that "fight over the name" angle.


----------



## USAUSA1

Aaa La parka should have retired years ago.


----------



## kimino

I ♥ KEMONITO;52373825 said:


> I've only seen a couple of early/mid 80s luchas from him. I've been told early/mid 70's was the best part of his career. I was born too late to really understand what I saw at the shows I went to as a kid. You do find some small gems in the luchador movies. Like you get to see how incredibly athletic Blue Demon was. Or how legit some of the luchas looked backed then.
> 
> To answer amhlilhaus, Sombra is not seen on the same level as Atlantis. I don't think it has to do with talent necessarily but by what Atlantis has done in his career. Alot of it has to do with guys leaving and not passing on the torch. Or they milk some of those guys relentlessly and throws away credibility.
> 
> There are fans that think Sombra will win just for the reason that they are building to the future. But you have diehard fans too, that believe that Atlantis is cmll's last big name idol, and shouldn't lose his mask. He is too valuable to unmask.
> 
> I believe Sombra was chosen because he already holds equity with fans and has unmasked Volador jr. Who is their top babyface right now. If not, up there with Casas. A mask vs mask is the bigger deal to people and Sombra is the most prestigous rudo mask they have atm. Was this the plan? I doubt it.
> 
> They both were interviewed today at 12:30 cdt. Atlantis gave me the impression he is losing. By his body language and was talking really fast. Sombra showed he is not that good of an interview. Nothing noteworthy was said. Just the usual.
> 
> Probably Sombra wins. But I think Sombra losing the mask would help his career. A draw would be so fucking stupid that I wouldn't put it past cmll.
> 
> USAUSA1, they are observed as seperate people/gimmicks. They are free to do what they please with either. According to that "fight over the name" angle.



With a draw both lose their mask dont they?


----------



## Vårmakos

> *Heroes Inmortales IX*
> 1) Goya Kong vs La Hiedra, Taya ©, ?, ?? [Reina del Reinas]
> first defense
> 2) Angélico & Jack Evans vs Joe Lider & Pentagón Jr. © and Daga & Steve Pain [AAA TAG]
> first defense
> 3) Drago & Fénix vs Brian Cage & El Mesías
> 4) Cibernético vs La Parka, Blue Demon Jr., Averno, Hijo de Pirata Morgan, Electroshock, Aerostar, Chessman, ?, Niño Hamburguesa [Copa Antonio Pena]
> 5) ?, Psycho Clown, Rey Mysterio Jr. vs Hijo del Fantasma, Myzteziz, Texano Jr.
> 6) El Patrón Alberto © vs Johnny Mundo [AAA HEAVY]
> second defense


Source: http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/

This card looks like it'll be a million times better than Triplemania.


----------



## amhlilhaus

Vårmakos said:


> *Heroes Inmortales IX*
> 1) Goya Kong vs La Hiedra, Taya ©, ?, ?? [Reina del Reinas]
> first defense
> 2) Angélico & Jack Evans vs Joe Lider & Pentagón Jr. © and Daga & Steve Pain [AAA TAG]
> first defense
> 3) Drago & Fénix vs Brian Cage & El Mesías
> 4) Cibernético vs La Parka, Blue Demon Jr., Averno, Hijo de Pirata Morgan, Electroshock, Aerostar, Chessman, ?, Niño Hamburguesa [Copa Antonio Pena]
> 5) ?, Psycho Clown, Rey Mysterio Jr. vs Hijo del Fantasma, Myzteziz, Texano Jr.
> 6) El Patrón Alberto © vs Johnny Mundo [AAA HEAVY]
> second defense
> 
> 
> 
> Source: http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/
> 
> This card looks like it'll be a million times better than Triplemania.
Click to expand...

Any chance they pull a swerve and have mundo win?


----------



## Stetho

Vårmakos said:


> Source: http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/
> 
> This card looks like it'll be a million times better than Triplemania.


I'd love to see Averno winning la Copa ! Myzteziz needs a win after his submission at TM, same for Cage. No suspense for the main event though.


----------



## Rah

Cara Lucha's new main event has Damian 666 replacing Rush (against Park & Pagano). Interestingly, they're still booking Flyer


----------



## xsw

USAUSA1 said:


> Random note, if LA Park lose his mask, what will happen to LA Parka mask in AAA?


You mean, what would happen to LA Park if La Parka (Jr) lost his mask? Neither is gonna happen, so, we'll never know. >

If Peña had never come up with Parka II to keep the character on tv, Tapia would had lost his mask by early oughts to Stuka again or maybe Panterita del Ring and now would be in the Coliseo Monterrey undercard at best. Him being the victim of Peña's legal team is what got him over with the ArMex crowd, had PAPSA never filled the lawsuits, he would have been rejected by CMLL crowd as another AAA luchador, instead, he was the flagship Anti-AAA guy and cheered because of that... until he became antiCMLL as well... 

AAA has 2 options for Parka II, either they bring another Parka Jr to carry the torch, or they quietly replace him with someone else... but they'll never retire him. :surprise:


----------



## Rah

Undoubtedly they'll get one of the clowns to pick up the gimmick, so they can run their weird fascination with Demon Rocker/Psycho Circus through Parka Negra and Parka Jr.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

This PPV gonna be better than Triplemania For sure.









Wonder who are going to be the Luchadores Sorpresas in this event but i think they could be:
-AAA Reina de Reinas Championship: 2 Luchadoras Sorpresas (Could be La Jarochita and Sexy Lady but probably not)
-Copa Antonio Peña: i wonder if Dr. Wagner appears there, hahaha or could be speedball
-Lucha Semifinal: This is going to be a técnico, so could be Mr. 450


----------



## GetDown




----------



## shlegglete

What is the best overall Lucha show of the year so far? A part from that Chilanga Mask show, that was fantastic.


----------



## USAUSA1

Ultima Lucha and Lucha World Cup was fun shows.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

shlegglete said:


> What is the best overall Lucha show of the year so far? A part from that Chilanga Mask show, that was fantastic.


Good shows:
CMLL 2015-09-04 @ Arena México 
CMLL Homenaje Dos Leyendas 3/20/15 @ Arena Mexico 
AAA Sin Límite - Ecatepec Febrero 2015 
AAA Sin Límite - León 2015
Chilanga Mask 3/22 good luck finding it
Lucha World Cup -great

AAA sin limite are good shows atleast 1 good match an episode in most cases. Caralucha shows usually offer a great match at every show. Unfortunately you will not find many on the internets. 

CMLL 82 Aniversario
Available through LIVE IPPV @ http://cmll.cleeng.com/funcion-de-lucha-libre-del-82-aniversario-del-cmll/E606281741_MX
*
PRIMERA*
Esfinge, Fuego, The Panther vs Disturbio, Puma, Virus

*SEGUNDA*
Guerrero Maya Jr., Máximo, Stuka Jr. vs Dragón Rojo Jr., Pólvora, Rey Escorpión

*TERCERA*
Dark Angel farewell match
Dark Angel vs Princesa Sugehit

*CUARTA*
Felino, Mr. Niebla, ***** Casas vs Dragon Lee, Mistico, Valiente

*SEMIFINAL*
Shocker, Último Guerrero, Volador Jr. vs Marco Corleone, Rush, Thunder [Relevos Increíbles]

*MAIN EVENT*
Atlantis vs La Sombra [MASCARA VS MASCARA]​


----------



## USAUSA1

I managed to watch these mask matches this week.

La Parka vs Cibernetico
La Parka vs Mesias
Panther vs Villano V
Atlantis vs Villano 3
Atlantis vs Kung Fu
Atlantis vs Mano Negra
Atlantis vs UG
Volador Jr vs Sombra
Aerostar vs Super Fly

Funny how both Cibernetico and Mesias careers became bigger without the mask. Maybe Sombra can have the same fate.

I personally like the Mano Negra mask match. Panther/Villano V is still my favorite. The AAA Parka matches was identical to each other but fun. Work rate wise, of course Sombra and Volador is the best of the bunch.


----------



## prepasur

Watch this matches, some foavorites of mine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AckyeXoLtmo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX-aHLZ0gOk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRM9BH1jNgw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FD3KyvjXXE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0fLKAa3QFU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8kgE_JPuQ0

The only things that i never liked is how cmll protects Atlantis only becuase he didnt jump to AAA in the 90's.


----------



## USAUSA1

What's wrong with that? He's loyal and over, perfect combination.


----------



## Rah

CMLL's been high on him since he first debuted, though. Not every luchadore gets a big title win a year into their career and holds it for, what, a year and a half? CMLL was very good to him, and he stayed put. It cuts both ways. Besides, as USAUSA1 said, it's sound business to cement a very over talent (that a lot look at as a very good wrestling hand) that's loyal to your promotion. That said, if you don't enjoy how he's pushed, I cannot disagree. That's a personal issue. 


Who's watching the Anniversary show, live, tonight? I'm wondering whether I should stay up, time zones be damned. I just know, with little sleep, I may be a liiiiiittle bit cranky if Sombra loses.


----------



## Miguel De Juan

Rah said:


> CMLL's been high on him since he first debuted, though. Not every luchadore gets a big title win a year into their career and holds it for, what, a year and a half? CMLL was very good to him, and he stayed put. It cuts both ways. Besides, as USAUSA1 said, it's sound business to cement a very over talent (that a lot look at as a very good wrestling hand) that's loyal to your promotion. That said, if you don't enjoy how he's pushed, I cannot disagree. That's a personal issue.
> 
> 
> Who's watching the Anniversary show, live, tonight? I'm wondering whether I should stay up, time zones be damned. I just know, with little sleep, I may be a liiiiiittle bit cranky if Sombra loses.


The anniversary show is tonight? Fuck I work.


----------



## Corey

You guys can't be watching live tonight. Gotta choose All Star Extravaganza instead!


----------



## Vårmakos

>Having to choose between Anniversario 82 or ASE

:CENA


----------



## USAUSA1

I have an event tonight, it sucks they have no VOD.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I plan on watching live but won't know if I can untill its time, or atleast see the mask match.


----------



## xsw

prepasur said:


> The only things that i never liked is how cmll protects Atlantis only becuase he didnt jump to AAA in the 90's.


It's the other way around, he didn't jump because he was being favored and protected, he knew he would be midcarder in AAA so by staying he had a shot at the top of CMLL. Many others didn't jump right away when Peña had the big televisa budget. Sangre Chicana, Pierroth, Pirata Morgan, El Dandy, etc. all probably bigger names than Atlantis stick around for CMLL, even with attendances down to hundrends, but then CMLL started bringing ex UWA guys and put them in top, so CMLL wasn't loyal for them, save Atlantis...


----------



## Corey

Some WWNLive Lucha events going down next month in Florida. Some solid talent on here but I watched the last one of these they did (headlined by Wagner Jr. vs. Silver King) and it was shit.


----------



## Pedro Vicious

MR-Bolainas said:


> This PPV gonna be better than Triplemania For sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wonder who are going to be the Luchadores Sorpresas in this event but i think they could be:
> -AAA Reina de Reinas Championship: 2 Luchadoras Sorpresas (Could be La Jarochita and Sexy Lady but probably not)
> -Copa Antonio Peña: i wonder if Dr. Wagner appears there, hahaha or could be speedball
> -Lucha Semifinal: This is going to be a técnico, so could be Mr. 450


I cant wait, im gonna be there


----------



## USAUSA1

Can't wait to get home


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Crowd wants this womens match to end. But it keeps going on.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

DarK Angel wins a good competitive drawn out match.


----------



## USAUSA1

I managed to catch the tail end.


----------



## USAUSA1

***** coming full force


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Fans hate Mistico. Booing everything he does and cheering his opponent.


----------



## USAUSA1

They know he is not the real deal. I like him though


----------



## USAUSA1

Dragon Lee killing ***** yes


----------



## USAUSA1

Fun match so far


----------



## USAUSA1

Dragon Lee is clearly the best in the game right now.


----------



## USAUSA1

It's all about UG and Thunder lol


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

No match has been better than good so far. It has been like getting a card full of Tuesday and Friday main events.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

yeah pretty average to their week shows standard, main event should be interesting


----------



## USAUSA1

Why is Shocker book ?


----------



## USAUSA1

Rush vs Volador should have had a singles match instead.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Neither capitan wants to job = DQ finish..Volador seems to have taken LA Parks place against Rush.


----------



## Vårmakos

Rush/Volador hair match? :mark:


----------



## USAUSA1

Hair vs hair yes


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Volador challenging Rush for the hairs. Rush asks crowd if thats what they want? they all cheer SI!, Rush responds, if thats what you all want, then I don't want you to have it. No my hair is the most valuable hair in the world perros.


----------



## USAUSA1

Yup they should save it for next year anniversary show.


----------



## USAUSA1

Sombra stay forever


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

History happening right now.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Rush interference leads to DQ win for Atlantis, both seconds have been ejected.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Sombra takes second clean via Brillante Driver


----------



## USAUSA1

My money on Atlantis


----------



## MR-Bolainas

and the third fall goes to ...


----------



## Vårmakos

!!!!!!!


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Great match going on.


----------



## USAUSA1

Close one


----------



## Vårmakos

Incredible sequence.


----------



## USAUSA1

Sombra putting on a show. Do not tell hhh


----------



## USAUSA1

Amazing stuff


----------



## Vårmakos

:sad:


----------



## USAUSA1

Atlantis wins


----------



## USAUSA1

Atlantis is the Undertaker and the fans love it


----------



## MR-Bolainas

ATLANTIS!


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

ATLANTIS WINS


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

FUCK YEAH I KNEW IT


----------



## USAUSA1

He got a good look, he will be fine. New chapter


----------



## Leon Knuckles

That was mad emotional and I don't even know Spanish.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Atlantis at 53 years old wrestled one of the best matches of the year. Doing things he has never done in the ring before. 3 topes to the outside, the tope over the barrier, german suplex Sombra off the top rope. One of his best performances ever and Sombra was equally impressive. He bumped huge for Atlantis, and added the pace that kept the match flowing at crucial moments while staying true to his character. Completely captivating from bell to bell. You got to let all your emotions get involved. You really can't say that about every motyc. La Sombra vs Altlantis ***** 

Absolutely loved the tope over the barrier. He whips Sombra over. Like a master, he pauses. You can see a lightbulb turn on over his head...he puts his head down and charges the barrier..he dives with no regret straight into Sombra's chin.


----------



## Rah

EDIT


----------



## amhlilhaus

Sombra lost? Well, how old is he? I guess now he gets to win a couple of big matches to get rebuilt. When ultimo guerrero lost his mask he beat everybody in singles for like 2 months if i remember correctly


----------



## USAUSA1

I think CMLL should stop doing mask matches for awhile. Maybe a good 5 years. There will always be mask men to choose from. Mistico mask(although he is not the original), Dorada when he comes back and over time you can build up guys. I am sure after the war is over, Park is going to be looking for a big payday to lose his mask and only CMLL and AAA can provide him that. 

Atlantis should never lose his mask.

Hopefully, the plan will be Volador Jr vs. Rush hair vs. hair next September.


----------



## Corey

amhlilhaus said:


> Sombra lost? Well, how old is he? I guess now he gets to win a couple of big matches to get rebuilt. When ultimo guerrero lost his mask he beat everybody in singles for like 2 months if i remember correctly


25. I think a lot of the speculation is that he may be going away for a while. Possibly to tag with Naito in New Japan or being signed by WWE when they come to Mexico next month. Who knows though, that could all be nothing.


----------



## Rah

Yeah, they can strap rockets to Sombra going forward, but that could have been a huge mask match in their future. Sombra is a young kid with all the promise in the world. Every federation right now is focusing on building their bank balance now, without looking out for the future. WWE burnt Reigns. NJPW lost a huge fan following in Shibata and Honma. Now CMLL is burning Sombra to prop up a legend that doesn't need anything more to his career (or, at least, the mask of a guy with as much upswing as Sombra). Where's the future? A bad fake that the crowd won't give a shit about? A wrestler that quite happily upped and left for Japan? He was barely used in CMLL, and cherished getting more bookings in NJPW. I don't see things changing any time soon. We have Dragon Lee and Cavernario as future prospects. Lee's gotten a good deal of momentum, but where's Cavernario? Running around with Titan's belt and? I'm not having much hope for them building bigger stars.

Sombra looks good without a mask, so he's not going to get too hurt, but I do wonder how much of the rudo personality will work without that stellar mask of his. Poor guy was emotional during his post-match promo:






great watch, btw




Jack Evans 187 said:


> 25. I think a lot of the speculation is that he may be going away for a while. *Possibly to tag with Naito in New Japan* or being signed by WWE when they come to Mexico next month. Who knows though, that could all be nothing.


Wow

just

wow


----------



## USAUSA1

But who would Sombra fight in a mask match 3-5 years from now? Atlantis is getting up there in age and I don't think fans want him to lose his mask. From all accounts, people in the building was rooting against Sombra. I think it was rob or cubsfan that said they already pushing for a Rush/Atlantis hair vs. mask match inside the building(which is odd because they did the whole thing with Volador/Rush). Cibernetico lost his mask at 29 and it turn out to be a great thing for all parties involved. Like others have said, what if Sombra would have beaten the King of Mask matches and then jump to freakin NXT or NJPW months later? I think CMLL knew they had to pull the trigger right away.

If you watch the Anniversary show, Triplemania and Ultima Lucha every main event deliver on a high quality level. Great time to be a lucha fan.


----------



## Rah

I agree on match quality always delivering. As much as I find the booking frustrating, CMLL always gives us great big-time matches.

We'll have to see what time will tell us. The golden feud would be Sombra/Rush. That gives you a few years to build the next generation of big time talent. I don't see why Sombra would jump with a big win under his belt, and the promise of great things in an almost immediate future. NXT is great, but there's no future for him beyond there (even if he does succeed in developmental). He'd be taking a huge pay cut just trying his luck, as well. Take a quick look at what those guys are being paid. It's ridiculous. I also don't see why he'd choose teaming with Naito or NJPW as his future. He'll not amount to much, there. Taking a break is fine. It will give him time off to burn into a tecnico turn down the line. Oh, well. I'll keep watching to see where this goes.

And that's exactly what CMLL knows we'll do; keep watching. Ugh.


----------



## USAUSA1

Atlantis vs. Rush mask vs. hair
Volador Jr. vs. Rush hair vs. hair
Sombra vs. Volador Jr hair vs. hair
Sombra vs. Rush hair vs. hair
and maybe just maybe Rush vs. Park hair vs. mask

Look like its Rush time.


----------



## pgi86

USAUSA1 said:


> Atlantis vs. Rush mask vs. hair
> Volador Jr. vs. Rush hair vs. hair
> Sombra vs. Volador Jr hair vs. hair
> Sombra vs. Rush hair vs. hair
> and maybe just maybe Rush vs. Park hair vs. mask
> 
> Look like its Rush time.


I'd also throw in Ultimo Guerrero vs. Sombra and Rush vs. Ultimo Guerrero in this mix. Those would be big hair vs. hair matches as well.


----------



## kimino

Atlantis now doesnt need to lose his mask no matter what everyone says, no matter if they call him selfish because i dont see anyone getting so big that they deserve the mask, he is probabily going to be buried with his mask on


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

CMLL cannot take the risk of trusting a young guy on the rise to win the mask. He could still get poached by WWE or be tempted by AAA. If Rush was Volador's age, I say they probably would trust him. To make stars you need to have high caliber opponents to beat, and CMLL has dwindled in that department. La Mascara is the guy that could benefit from this. He is the only masked ingobernable, and more likely to become a priority becasue of it. 

I don't think Blue Panther will ever put his career on the line. But if he does it will be a big deal same with ***** Casas. I doubt it because there is money to be made off indy dates for either after their time with arena mexico is over. Mr Niebla might have the next most valuable mask lol, and La Mascara is in a mini fued with him currently. That could work for the big show in March. 

Its up to Sombra if he can carry this thing. I want to see what charisma he possesses. Not expecting the levels of Cibernetico, he is an all-time great interview and super charismatic. When Shocker lost his mask he no sold it and said good, i'm too handsome to be wearing a mask, and that launched his career to the next level. Sombra is already collecting on the perks, by having women throw themselves at him on social media.


----------



## Rah

I don't see Sombra heading to WWE with a mask still on. If they couldn't take the risk, they shouldn't have put Sombra in the position. Anyway, seems USAUSA1 is right about it being Rush's time


----------



## xsw

Its up to Sombra if he can carry this thing. I want to see what charisma he possesses. Not expecting the levels of [B said:


> Cibernetico, he is an all-time great interview and super charismatic.[/B] When Shocker lost his mask he no sold it and said good, i'm too handsome to be wearing a mask, and that launched his career to the next level. Sombra is already collecting on the perks, by having women throw themselves at him on social media.


Besides that, Cibernetico was in Peña's last scheme with the media with the Kahwagi affair, which made Cibernetico a celebrity... or at least a foil to clebutante Kahwagi, with lots of tv and print coverage, then got his back with three degree burns in that match with Banderas, and later was "in a relationship" with Sabrina... that kinda exposure Andrade won't ever have... heck, his looking himself for another suspension posing with original Mistico for twitter... > 

Shocker would be a better comparison, but Shocker was one of the few guys that actually lost his mask and changed his gimmick (other two would be Pierroth becoming Puerto Rican a couple years earlier, and Mesias), almost everyone else has kept the same gimmick, but without a mask... Guess the next step would be for them to turn on La Mascara...


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Get it while you can


----------



## Corey

Any standout Lightning matches from this year? I've actually never watched one but I imagine they can be fun if done correctly.

Are there any great singles matches from this year that _aren't_ on thecubsfan Youtube channel? That's basically the only place I know to check and I imagine he has most outside of Chilanga Mask or something.


----------



## kimino

Full show is in youtube right now better watch again before it gets deleted


----------



## USAUSA1

I doubt they take it down.


----------



## Corey

Just finished *Atlantis/Sombra*. It's a great match no doubt, but I felt kind of bothered by the lack of any long term selling (or short term at times). It seems strange to me if you take a dive on the outside that you'd be the one the offensive when you got back in the ring. It's something I can never get past in some Lucha matches. Many times it feels they go through a spot and simply get up and walk up to the next one without selling any punishment. If you're able to look past that, the 3rd fall was excellent. Several close nearfalls and good sequences. Really loved that Atlantis dive over the barricade. Amazing to think that he's in his 50s. Going in reverse, the first fall was a lot of fun too. Good heel performance from Sombra. He's gonna be fine without the mask. Has a great look for sure. **** 3/4*

Question, does the CMLL World Heavyweight Championship not hold as much merit as it does in other companies? Just seems strange that Maximo would be involved in the 2nd match on the card when he's the top champ. He doesn't seem to be a big focal point on any of their big shows, really.


----------



## almostfamous

Sombra/Atlantis was stellar. I don't watch a whole lot of lucha so it is difficult for me to rank. Liked it more than the Ultimo Guerrero/Atlantis match from last year though. There is so much emotion in CMLL mask/mask matches. The crowd was on fire.


----------



## USAUSA1

I always considered the NWA Middleweight title to be the top belt. So many titles in cmll.


----------



## Rah

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Any standout Lightning matches from this year? I've actually never watched one but I imagine they can be fun if done correctly.
> 
> Are there any great singles matches from this year that _aren't_ on thecubsfan Youtube channel? That's basically the only place I know to check and I imagine he has most outside of Chilanga Mask or something.












I really enjoyed Caifan/Virus upon second viewing. It's a typical Virus "lightning" match even if it's Chilanga Mask, so hopefully that appeases both criteria there. Otherwise this is easily the lucha show of the year:






Black Terry vs Guerrero Maya Jr
Blue Panther vs Trauma II
Virus vs Dr Cerebro


----------



## ZEROVampire

Atlantis vs La Sombra ***1/2. Great storytelling inside the ring, some problems of selling for moments, but this is a really good main event for this show.


----------



## Mvpscrewdriver305

I hope Sombra goes to wwe. He has all the intqngibles to be that latino star adr wasn't


----------



## USAUSA1

I think he is too young for the wwe. They would eat him out at 25. Japan should be his next stop if he is thinking about leaving Mexico. Then maybe by 28, he would be ready for the wwe.

I hope he stays in cmll forever. I hope Myzteziz goes back to cmll and save the Mistico name.


----------



## Vårmakos

I have always wondered: how are luchadores like Black Terry, ***** Casas, L.A Park, Dr. Wagner Jr., etc, able to wrestle on a regular schedule in their 50s-60s without their bodies just giving out on them? Are luchadores just inhumanly durable?


----------



## Miguel De Juan

Vårmakos said:


> I have always wondered: how are luchadores like Black Terry, ***** Casas, L.A Park, Dr. Wagner Jr., etc, able to wrestle on a regular schedule in their 50s-60s without their bodies just giving out on them? Are luchadores just inhumanly durable?


I think it maybe the way they bump. Atlantis is fifty three and did three topes in one match. I wonder how these guys are alive.


----------



## USAUSA1

Most if not all Luchadores are small. The bumps doesn't affect them as much as a person with a lot of weight and muscle mass. Some take steroids and those the ones that will have issues in the future. Plus, the older luchadores didn't take crazy dives like the new generation. The crazy dives didn't really start until Rey Mysterio,Juvy,Psicosis,etc. came into the mix.


----------



## prepasur

USAUSA1 said:


> Most if not all Luchadores are small. The bumps doesn't affect them as much as a person with a lot of weight and muscle mass. Some take steroids and those the ones that will have issues in the future. Plus, the older luchadores didn't take crazy dives like the new generation. The crazy dives didn't really start until Rey Mysterio,Juvy,Psicosis,etc. came into the mix.


Also the old timers worked a lot of mat wrestling based matches with very few "slam spots" because the mats in mexico are harder than the one in the united states


----------



## dmgsdmgsdmgs

Anyone got the link the CMLL Anniversario show? Really wanna catch it and have managed to avoid spoilers thus far


----------



## prepasur

dmgsdmgsdmgs said:


> Anyone got the link the CMLL Anniversario show? Really wanna catch it and have managed to avoid spoilers thus far


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2yt4kSZQ4g :wink2:


----------



## Corey

I watched the *Ultimo Guerrero/Rey Escorpion Hair vs. Hair* match from earlier this year and man, that was great. Immediately throwing straight punches when they entered the ring was a good sign of things to come and Guerrero took a real beating. I really liked how the first and second fall didn't seem like a waste like they do so many other times. All the dives were great and the crowd was HOT. My only real gripe was that Escorpion kept constantly looking at the crowd like _right_ in the middle of the action and I have no idea why. That and I wish there was a little bit more going on late in the 3rd fall as it seemed to develop into big move, nearfall, big move, nearfall, and repeat. Just would've liked a little more there, but otherwise I really liked this and enjoyed it more than Atlantis/Sombra. The nearfalls felt believable too. A high end **** 3/4* for me and the best Lucha match I've seen all year, personally. Still quite a bit more for me to watch though.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Caralucha 10/3 Relevos Increibles: Rush/Trauma II vs Sombra/Trauma I


----------



## Rah

OH HOLY SHIT


----------



## Stetho

Just watched La Sombra vs Atlantis, loved it :y2j
I wasn't a big fan of Rush at the beginning but the more I see him the more I like him


----------



## amhlilhaus

I ♥ KEMONITO;52572281 said:


> Caralucha 10/3 Relevos Increibles: Rush/Trauma II vs Sombra/Trauma I


Will this make tape?


----------



## xsw

Vårmakos said:


> I have always wondered: how are luchadores like Black Terry, ***** Casas, L.A Park, Dr. Wagner Jr., etc, able to wrestle on a regular schedule in their 50s-60s without their bodies just giving out on them? Are luchadores just inhumanly durable?


A few of them can do that, but a ton had a different fate... Jerry Estrada retired over a decade ago and is in very bad shape... Texano Sr died after having spine injuries, original Pierroth Jr had a stroke, many died young like Bestia Salvaje and Emilio Charles Jr, the list goes on and on...
:frown2:


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I am missing this show mucho.


----------



## Corey

SHIV said:


> I am missing this show mucho.


Assuming that you're talking about Lucha Underground, hope you know that they announced Season Two! :mark: 

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/1085777-lucha-underground-el-rey-network-205.html


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Assuming that you're talking about Lucha Underground, hope you know that they announced Season Two! :mark:
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/1085777-lucha-underground-el-rey-network-205.html


Man, I don't know how I missed that, but that is incredible news!!!! Me gusta mucho!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mark:


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Kamaitachi VS Rey Horus, Chilanga Mask, Arena Coacalco, 20-09-15 





I see Johnny Mundo is getting a string of bookings for October AAA shows. Mainly teaming with Myzteziz across from Rey. Alberto is not on any of those cards after Guerra de Titanes where he faces Mundo for the title. Hinting a title change is probable. That would be something to see. Mundo as the Megachampion of AAA.


----------



## USAUSA1

They got that match up fast. Heard it was awesome.


----------



## Corey

Well, it's looking more and more likely could defeat Alberto. First Alberto denies on twitter that he's confirmed for season 2 of LU and now this. Guess that whole MMA thing with him could be legit...

Good share with that Rey Horus match. I've only seen him work in EVOLVE. (Y)


----------



## CrAvEnRaven

Im pretty sure his mma gig is being a commentator for Combates America which i think runs seasons like LU. I don't think that would be anything to keep him from wrestling, unless he's thinking of fighting again or its an exclusivity issue


----------



## USAUSA1

Dave gave the mask match ****3/4 .


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Tonight @ 8:30 CDT Arena Mexico stream it live http://www.clarosports.com/en-vivo/


----------



## amhlilhaus

I ♥ KEMONITO;52662794 said:


> Tonight @ 8:30 CDT Arena Mexico stream it live http://www.clarosports.com/en-vivo/


Cant wait for the main event! Love rush


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Good show. Main had to end early due to Rush suffering a large cut on his right should from being thrown into the entrance stairs. Ingobernables ran in to end it. They all beat down Volador and tore his gear off him. Really dissapointing considering the show was going good and the crowd was really into everything. Attendance was back to the usual 4000-5000. Hijos del Infierno vs AngeldeOro/ReyCometa/Triton was motn.


----------



## amhlilhaus

That was a nasty cut. Its freaky sometimes how deep cuts dont bleed too much, that thing should have poured.

Been loving these friday night shows. 1 more, jope they continue after that


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Latest AAA show "Ring & Rock StAAArs 4" has been uploaded to YT

*1 Goya Kong & Faby Apache vs La Hiedra & Taya
*2 Argenis & Drago vs Hijo del Pirata Morgan & El Apache
*3 Pentagon Jr & Joe Lider vs Angelico & Jack Evans vs Hijo del Fantasma & Texano Jr
*4 Rey Mysterio Jr, Psycho Clown & Fénix vs Myztezyz, El Mesias & Brian Cage


----------



## USAUSA1

Rey red Ferrari was bad ass and clean as F.

Rudo Myzteziz is great.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Absoulute killer of a match. Highly recommend. I remember having this show on a tape but ended up losing it. I remember it being really good and even got a Mascarita Sagrada mask that summer because I thought he was so cool. There is a flaw that you just wish didn't happen because the match didn't deserve it. Truly heartbreaking for a match that deserves all the stars.






Arena Puebla @ 9:00 PM CDT https://www.youtube.com/user/VideosOficialesCMLL

MAIN 
MARCO CORLEONE, VOLADOR JR.® Y EL VALIENTE®
vs
MEPHISTO®, LUCIFERNO Y EPHESTO®

SEMI MAIN
MÁXIMO®, DRAGON LEE Y BLUE PANTHER
vs
***** CASAS, CAVERNARIO Y KAMAITACHI

TERCERA
BLUE PANTHER JR., STIGMA Y THE PANTHER
vs
TIGER, SANGRE AZTECA Y PUMA

SEGUNDA
SOBERANO, LESTAT Y TIGRE ROJO JR.
vs
MOLOTOV, NITRO Y POLICE MAN

PRIMERA 
REY SAMURAY, ASTURIANO Y BLACK TIGER
vs
FUERZA CHICANA, ESPIRÍTU MALIGNO Y KING JAGUAR​
I'll try catch the top 3 matches if I can. Show is available on demand, so you can watch later at any time.


----------



## USAUSA1

Virus vs. Blue Panther this Saturday, going to watch out for that match.


----------



## Rah

Outside of his little run in Puerto Rico (WWC), Mascarita is pretty much always a great watch. So fluid and agile. Espectrito is definitely Sagrada's career partner (like Cena/Punk or Eddie/Rey) where they always bring out the best in the other. Hell, Sagrada may be the best mini until Mascarita Dorada came along.



USAUSA1 said:


> Virus vs. Blue Panther this Saturday, going to watch out for that match.


Ah, man. It's against Jr. I got a bit excited, there. Daddy Panther and Virus had a quality lightning match. Really wish CMLL had given Panther a shot at the title. Cachorro is another guy I'd rather have against Blue Panther Jr but we'll see how this goes. It's Virus.


----------



## shlegglete

What are some of Rúsh's best matches?


----------



## amhlilhaus

shlegglete said:


> What are some of Rúsh's best matches?


Him v ***** casa hair v hair is awesome


----------



## Rah

These are the standouts over the last three and a half years. I haven't followed enough 2015 CMLL to know what is on offer from there.


*Terrible vs Rush*




This is the match that put Rush on the map for me. Rush is godlike in how he uses every moment to ooze hatred from the crowd. The near-riot after the match ends just cemented Rush as the next big thing. It never struck me at the time, but Terrible as Rush's first big conquest was a fitting victory. Perro Aguayo Jr may be a one-of-a-kind talent, but Rush is of that same mold. *MUST SEE*






With little hair left, Terrible's fighting for something more important; his pride



*Rush vs ***** Casas*




The start to CMLL's best feud in years. This was violent. Just a straight up gang fight like one you'd see in some seedy prison. Note how Casas can stick with Rush at every punch, because it's integral to their story. *MUST SEE*






A week or two later and CMLL busts out another great trios match. *MUST SEE*






Things take a bit of a turn, and Shocker wants in on the action, too. Great threeway (which is rare in of itself) and maybe the best one this decade in Mexico outside of Angel/Oficial/Trauma II in IWRG.






I think this goes 8 minutes, but it's disgustingly violent and does a lot in such a short amount of time. Great little appetizer for the forthcoming hair match. *MUST SEE*





This gets more time than Casas/Rush and it's pretty good for a Shocker match. Rush turning his douchebag antics to Tirantes is the highlight.









Shocker's first ever hair loss. Not the best match of 2014, but it's definitely clawing its way in the door.





An important match maybe moreso for Sombra than Rush/Casas, as it's his breakout performance.





The granddaddy of Rush matches. This is a payoff to a year and a half of work, so it works best in context. Forget your Atlantis stuff, this is CMLL's best apuesta of the decade. *MUST SEE*


----------



## shlegglete

Rush is dope.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Rush started 2015 and ended 2014, out with a leg injury. That kept him out of plans the first 3 months. When he returned they tried to reinvigorate the fued between him and Ultimo Guerrero for the hairs. It was off and on between those 2 untill they decided to throw Thunder in the mix and UG got sidetracked by Rey Escorpion. 2015 is the year of Los Ingobernables taking off and making their group known. The indys supplemented thier popularity by getting to do these matches people actually wanted to see. vs La Park, vs Traumas, vs Wagner

You have to see the dia de los muertos match vs Ultimo Guerrero

Caralucha vs Traumas and ex-aaa Eterno

Some Ingobernables trios from this year
Diamante Azul, Último Guerrero, Volador Jr. vs La Sombra, Rush, Thunder 

La Sombra, Naito, Rush vs Diamante Azul, Valiente, Volador Jr. 

Rah did a good job listing all the great ones.


----------



## amhlilhaus

shlegglete said:


> Rush is dope.


Yes, yes he is.

Whoever takes his hair is MADE


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Another MOTYC from CMLL. Don't want to spoils. Just watch.


----------



## USAUSA1

Before the third fall I wasn't really into it but that third fall was absolutely terrific. Must see, Triton really stood out.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

USAUSA1 said:


> Before the third fall I wasn't really into it but that third fall was absolutely terrific. Must see, Triton really stood out.


I loved how they used the first two falls. I certainly prefer to saving everything for the third fall. Things got heavier as the match progressed. You see how Cavernario begins to lose it with every nearfall and finally raises the stakes. Both guys roll into a definitive on-slaught that is some-what slightly spoiled by fatigue. They missed the high-note by a little.

It was a complete surprise it was this good because, Triton is positioned in about the same level as Niebla Roja. Clearly on paper he is not impressive but after this match he becomes someone to watch.


----------



## USAUSA1

La Sombra vs Atlantis mask match will air on Azteca America today. I wonder how well will they do ?


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Heroes Inmortales IX Was Great! The Reina de Reinas Match, Copa Antonio Peña most of it was great, Johnny Mundo should have won but it was great anyway. also Lady Shani (She was on the monterrey taping but not on ppv), Lady Maravilla, Taurus and Garza Jr Debuted.


----------



## USAUSA1

I thought Rey look great, a lot of lu fans complaining about Rey need to understand Rey can still go at a high level.


----------



## USAUSA1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/650857845236350976


----------



## Vårmakos

MR-Bolainas said:


> Heroes Inmortales IX Was Great! The Reina de Reinas Match, Copa Antonio Peña most of it was great, Johnny Mundo should have won but it was great anyway. also Lady Shani (She was on the monterrey taping but not on ppv), Lady Maravilla, Taurus and Garza Jr Debuted.


The tag title match was MOTN for me. 

The main event had too much fuckery and garbage wrestling for my taste. ADR/Mondo are capable of putting on a good match w/o the need for that stuff.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Vårmakos said:


> The tag title match was MOTN for me.
> 
> The main event had too much fuckery and garbage wrestling for my taste. ADR/Mondo are capable of putting on a good match w/o the need for that stuff.


yeah the tag team match was great, i also thought that about the main event but it was great anyway, i hope, if there's a rematch, wins this time Johnny mundo.


----------



## Pedro Vicious

Heroes Inmortales was a great live show, the crowd was very good, the tag match was great and Mystezis is an awesome heel, using the flowers as a weapon was very funny, and finally i have tha chance to watch Mysterio live


----------



## Flair Shot

Héroes Inmortales was what Triplemania should have been. Awesome show from start to finish.

I was kinda sad that Pentagon and Lider lost the tag titles, but i was overjoyed with Taya retaining her title in a really good 5 way match.

But who the hell is Taurus? Comes out of nowhere and wins the Copa Antonio Peña.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Mundo vs Patron is up on YT if people want to seek it. I saw the show this morning. Pretty much met my expectations of a solid show. Storylines advance and typical bamboozalry you would expect from a big AAA show. People should check out the tag match when its up. If you've been following the uploads on their YT channel you will notice that the match quality of those shows is on par with this show. The main storyline is drawn from the politics within drug cartels and their effect on society. 

People on twitter have figured that Taurus is a LU character. Somebody for Fenix or Drago to beat most likely.

Also this trolling took place at CaraLucha






Clipped/incomplete matches from the Crash lucha show feat.AAA talent 











Only final stretch of Fénix vs Angélico vs Seiya Sanada vs Matt Cross


----------



## USAUSA1

Every time I look at a Crash show and ring, I think of Perro.


----------



## USAUSA1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/651474354832707584


----------



## ZEROVampire

Campeonato Mundial de Pesos Ligeros del CMLL: Virus (c) vs Dragon Lee - CMLL 4/5 ***1/4
Cabellera vs Cabellera: Último Guerrero vs Rey Escorpión - CMLL 7/17 ***1/4
Rey Mysterio, Angélico & Jack Evans vs Myzteziz, Joe Lider & Pentagón Jr. - AAA 9/10 **1/4
Campeonato Nacional Welter: Bárbaro Cavernario vs Tritón - CMLL 9/16 ***3/4


----------



## Rah

That Rush/Sombra/Traumas match :duck


----------



## Stetho

I'm not as pleased by Heroes Inmortales as you are it seems. 
Didn't like la Copa match and Taurus did not convince me. Otherwise, I love the way they handle Myzteziz as a lone wolf. 
But, there's no video of the tag team match so maybe I missed the best part of the show.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Just letting people know that you won't be able to watch Arena Mexico live tonight via clarosports.com, because its region locked. You may be able to work around it if you use a vpn service. Also most of matches from The Crash show are up on YT complete versions this channel https://www.youtube.com/user/videoslucha3000


----------



## amhlilhaus

I ♥ KEMONITO;53050346 said:


> Just letting people know that you won't be able to watch Arena Mexico live tonight via clarosports.com, because its region locked. You may be able to work around it if you use a vpn service. Also most of matches from The Crash show are up on YT complete versions this channel https://www.youtube.com/user/videoslucha3000


That sucks, cmll on friday nights live was awesome


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

amhlilhaus said:


> That sucks, cmll on friday nights live was awesome



Turns out you can watch the stream tonight http://www.clarosports.com/en-vivo/
I just checked.


----------



## USAUSA1

Glad the stream back.

What all these Myzteziz rumors about ?


----------



## kimino

Porky entrance GOAT lol!


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Myzteziz promo. Says he came back to seek his place. Its an honor to return to these people and arena. Thanks to them he is who he is now. Screams Thank You to end it. 

CMLL Announcer announces to people "You can see THIS LUCHADOR at the show on Sunday" "THIS LUCHADOR" 

Same deal as LA Park when he reappeared. Not coming back..yet.


----------



## USAUSA1

Smh aaa can't catch a break.


----------



## BillThompson

USAUSA1 said:


> Smh aaa can't catch a break.


Well, they are the ones catering to Alberto wanting to kill a guy. I mean, what reason does Mistico have to stay in AAA when Alberto says he wants to kill him, and he'll never be any higher than either Alberto or Rey in the pecking order. He's as good as back in CMLL anyways, this is just CMLL stalling while they work through all the contractual red tape. Big addition for them, should greatly help freshen up their main event scene.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/652704469717663744HUGE NEWS
Myzteziz says he will fullfil his bookings with AAA, then leave the promotion. Also he said he will use a diffrent name. 

Dream match scenario is Myzteziz vs Rush [mascara vs cabellera].A huge pickup for cmll. Will pickup buisness tremendously once he arrives. I do expect some kind of legal engagement between the 2 companies though and that might clog things up for a while. 

Show was very good outside of the universal tournament. Everybody brought it tonight.


----------



## Stetho

Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.
I loved the rudo Myzteziz... AAA planned a mask match with him, it's another big loss after the death of Perro Aguayo regarding their longterm booking.


----------



## USAUSA1

BillThompson said:


> Well, they are the ones catering to Alberto wanting to kill a guy. I mean, what reason does Mistico have to stay in AAA when Alberto says he wants to kill him, and he'll never be any higher than either Alberto or Rey in the pecking order. He's as good as back in CMLL anyways, this is just CMLL stalling while they work through all the contractual red tape. Big addition for them, should greatly help freshen up their main event scene.


I guess main eventing Triplemania and feuding with Rey Mysterio is not enough for some people. I guess Fantasma is the top rudo at the moment, it's his time to shine.


----------



## pgi86

Awesome freakin' news in my book! Mistico potentially being back in CMLL just feels right and is going to be a much needed shot of excitement and star power for CMLL. Can't wait for the eventual Mistico/Rush encounters. Mistico takes a good beating and Rush is great at giving one. Should be glorious.

Sidenote. Mistico being back makes me regret Park and Wagner being gone that much more. How amazing would it have been to have all three back at the same time? The crowds would have been on fire with all three in the mix. Oh well.

And hey, this might actually force AAA to push their younger rudos more so while this is a blow to AAA in the short term it might actually end up being good for them in the long run.


----------



## amhlilhaus

SHIIIIIIIIITTTT!!! I could hsve watched and seen this live?? Id have marked out almost as hard as cavernario winning the title!!!

Blow to AAA. But heres a history lesson. The biggest promotion in japan once lost thr guy they groomed to be their top guy, along with another upper carder and a gaggle of lower guys. They were then forced to step up their pushes for guys named misawa, kawada and kobashi.

AAA has guys that can step up like them, just have to have the guts to do so.


----------



## USAUSA1

Now the beat down to Myzteziz make a little sense. I wonder if this has to do with Adr ? Or maybe Myzteziz is like Wagner and Park and like to f with people ? This will be the third promotion Myzteziz left.


----------



## BillThompson

USAUSA1 said:


> Now the beat down to Myzteziz make a little sense. I wonder if this has to do with Adr ? Or maybe Myzteziz is like Wagner and Park and like to f with people ? This will be the third promotion Myzteziz left.


It's directly related to Alberto and to Mistico's place in the AAA pecking order. Alberto threw his weight around after TripleMania and the end result was going to be Mistico being pushed even further down the card, so he left.


----------



## xsw

It will mean something if they changed people in EMLL office... else, it'll be an "will be fired OVER/UNDER LA ParK time" deal.

Alberto will likely be feuding with Rey now, it seems that's what they (Rey and Alberto) wanted from the get go (they've worked together outside of Mexico several times). What will happen to Averno? Guess Argenis is gone from LU...


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Myztezyz leaving AAA must have something related to Alberto el Patron and his threating tweets some time ago and probably also with him being a tweener in Heroes inmortales IX. Now with this Hijo del Fantasma will be the top mexican rudo with Pentagon Jr as second also with Johnny Mundo feuding with Alberto. he should have stayed and go to Lucha Underground but well...


----------



## Stetho

French site said that Myzteziz confirmed in an interview that he's not back to CMLL. Any infos ?


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Stetho said:


> French site said that Myzteziz confirmed in an interview that he's not back to CMLL. Any infos ?


Not yet, he still have some dates at AAA so probably he won't be back inmediately unless he's in the same situation than LA Park and Dr Wagner Jr.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

AAA are down a red hot rudo they desperately needed. They had a chance to make Mundo, but didn't. Alberto beat him. There are zero opponents for him to work with now that could even remotely draw. Does Alberto claim leadership of PDM? is that going to be his turn? There are going to be some shows today so I'll keep an eye on the results and live reactions.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

I ♥ KEMONITO;53070426 said:


> AAA are down a red hot rudo they desperately needed. They had a chance to make Mundo, but didn't. Alberto beat him. There are zero opponents for him to work with now that could even remotely draw. Does Alberto claim leadership of PDM? is that going to be his turn? There are going to be some shows today so I'll keep an eye on the results and live reactions.


Hijo del Fantasma and later Pentagon Jr and i'd say Johnny mundo too.


----------



## USAUSA1

Cubsfan say this is a Myzteziz being difficult issue, I doubt it has to do with Adr.

Robviper said there are more jumps on the way.


----------



## amhlilhaus

I ♥ KEMONITO;53070426 said:


> AAA are down a red hot rudo they desperately needed. They had a chance to make Mundo, but didn't. Alberto beat him. There are zero opponents for him to work with now that could even remotely draw. Does Alberto claim leadership of PDM? is that going to be his turn? There are going to be some shows today so I'll keep an eye on the results and live reactions.


both main mexico promotions seem to have screwy planning, but are so big/stacked with talent it doesn't matter. just like rey is one of their top faces, but he's broken and if they don't put something into a younger guy then he goes down and what do they do?


----------



## USAUSA1

Rey is broken down ?


----------



## xsw

AAA doesn't need a hot new rudo... even Aguayo was just Konnan lackey... AAA sold out el Toreo with Parka (jr) vs Gigante something... just some random guy no one had heard about and no one heard about since... They have what they need/want in Psycho Clown, he's not what the internet smarks want, but that's what AAA needs to keep their business going. 

Actually, Mysteziz leaving will help them give Psycho the spot, even more so if Alberto turns and feuds him... then they still have Cibernetico and Mesias who are technically rudos, and Texano Jr, who's the long time Psycho rival, so they'll be fine. 

It's probably a bigger priority to produce tecnicos, Fenix is being pushed feuding Mesias, and they might get Fireball/Flamita and Super Nove to join the upper card soon.


----------



## USAUSA1

I guess Machine Rocker vs Taurus will never happen.


----------



## BillThompson

USAUSA1 said:


> Cubsfan say this is a Myzteziz being difficult issue, I doubt it has to do with Adr.
> 
> Robviper said there are more jumps on the way.


Difficult as in "Hey, I want to be a top guy, especially ahead of the dude who threatened to kill me multiple times. Oh, that won't happen, well then adios!" So yeah, a bunch of Lucha guys online, including Cubs, Fredo, etc. were talking and it's related to Alberto, among other things.


----------



## xsw

Mistico would had gone to CMLL right away the second WWE released him, but he was not welcomed there, Alberto joined AAA and was higher in the pecking order than Mysteziz more than a year ago, something is making him think CMLL will be picking him up... whether it happens or not, is yet to be seen. He'll be in ArMex on October 25. Maybe the following Friday he'll be there again, getting into mask matches challenges right away, setting for a main event the next Friday, but then CMLL will end up booking some other stip match and Mistico in the semifinal, but then Jose Casas will book himself on the semifinal with Shocker taking some random tag team title challengers, and 'tico will end up in the Especial spot... he'll probably leave then, just like Wagner/Park, that's assuming Mistico wants to keep booking himself in the indies, if he submits a big chunk of his paychecks to CMLL, it would be a different story. 

There might be a ripple effect... Wagner has been working a lot with Mysteziz in the indies (and AAA), but if Wagner is banned from CMLL, then this won't happen anymore, so Wagner and Park might end up going to AAA again... Mysteziz has stated in interviews he was very upset at CMLL management for how they treated his brothers, so he either gave up on that, or they'll be jumping too, but that's not really important, Averno very likely will go back to CMLL. The bigger problem for AAA is that some indy promoters might want to align with CMLL again (since Alberto and Rey Jr are too expensive for random spot shows) but I doubt any other high profile jumpings will take place, at least not this year.


----------



## USAUSA1

Nothing surprises me with lucha this year. It's been a newsworthy year.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

xsw said:


> It's probably a bigger priority to produce tecnicos, Fenix is being pushed feuding Mesias, and they might get Fireball/Flamita and Super Nove to join the upper card soon.


They've been giving Fenix a monster push and he has hit the glass ceiling. Working with Mesias might be enough to provide that breakthrough. They have to rebuild Texano jr.. guy has been the pits since losing his hair. The door is open for Pentagon jr to get his turn. AAA are turning into what they hate "more of the same" kinda show if they don't shake things up.

Myzteziz no showed a AAA event tonight. Confirms he is gone.


----------



## amhlilhaus

Mexicos more interesting thsn ever.

If mysteziz is gone, AAA should steal sombra and rush and make rush top technico. I read somewhere if cmll turned rush full rudo then his popularity would explode with the teenage boys demographic based on his cool factor. Sounds like something AAA would try, and they could expose him to the us audience in lucha underground. Team him with mundo and sombra for another power group there.

Itd be sweet


----------



## amhlilhaus

I meant rudo for rush.

See what having competition means? You get neat stuff happening with personnel moves, not just wrestler x has heat backstage since they looked at stephanie wrong


----------



## xsw

While Mysteziz was in AAA, Sombra could have jumped, they're very close friends, actually, I think maybe Sombra losing his mask was to get an IOU from CMLL and he is using it to bring 'tico back in... Rush is very protected and a favorite to the CMLL office, he ain't going anywhere either. I doubt AAA would be interested in them (except Konnan or someone who reads the dirtsheets and wants to cater to the 20 guys in the lucha IWC), and I doubt CMLL would be interested in anyone from AAA (except Alberto and Rey). 

So any jumps would be minor, more based on personal relationships (i.e. Texano bringing Terrible in, or Mistico having Averno back in CMLL) rather than a company plan/strategy. There are a ton of indy guys with lots of potential (young guys, not talking about Park and Wagner here), and it seems AAA is the more likely place to be, with CMLL being seemingly more closed as to who joins them. CMLL has no real tv exposure, but AAA has not taken advantage from it, with only 3 matches per week... while they had Mysteziz they could have done a second show and a brand split, but they never did - well, maybe Lucha Underground is said brand split, but it has not debuted in Mexico.

I'd kinda like to see Alberto turn rudo, and Texano Jr join Psycho Clown as babyfaces, rivals turned friends is an old wrestling trope (the other way around too), I'd also like Fenix turning rudo and teaming with his brother, from LU, Fenix showed good work with other tecnicos, so they could feud Rey Jr with Aerostar, Drago and or Fireball (Flamita) There's a ton of stuff both AAA and CMLL could try, so it's gonna be an interesting late 2015/2016.


----------



## Vårmakos

>The idea of Rush leaving CMLL to feud with the likes of Mesias and Cibernetico

:ugh2


----------



## USAUSA1

Rush jumping would be good for lucha underground fans.


----------



## amhlilhaus

USAUSA1 said:


> Rush jumping would be good for lucha underground fans.


Hell yeah


----------



## xsw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/653659211356749824
TAURUS!!!

:grin2:


----------



## Stetho

Damn, already in the middle of the poster. Who the hell is he ?


----------



## amhlilhaus

Stetho said:


> Damn, already in the middle of the poster. Who the hell is he ?


Cubsfan says he knows, but wants to see him again to be sure


----------



## Vårmakos

Interesting to see Pagano being booked in AAA.


----------



## xsw

It seems Taurus is not Matanza but he's the former Semental from "El Consejo" and later Machine Rocker. He's pretty good at making high flyers look great and pull complicated stuff, and has some nice offense, he's about 6 foot tall but not a muscular type of guy, but like Ultimo Guerrero, seems to be pretty strong doing some catches. He's getting a big push, which is a good thing...

Pentagon Jr, Taurus, Daga, Hijo del Pirata Morgan, Steve Pain... pretty good young rudo roster they've built.


----------



## USAUSA1

Looks like Rey,Adr,Demon and Taurus will not be on lu first tapings


----------



## amhlilhaus

xsw said:


> It seems Taurus is not Matanza but he's the former Semental from "El Consejo" and later Machine Rocker. He's pretty good at making high flyers look great and pull complicated stuff, and has some nice offense, he's about 6 foot tall but not a muscular type of guy, but like Ultimo Guerrero, seems to be pretty strong doing some catches. He's getting a big push, which is a good thing...
> 
> Pentagon Jr, Taurus, Daga, Hijo del Pirata Morgan, Steve Pain... pretty good young rudo roster they've built.


Mantanza is tall. When dario let him out the cage he was looking up. Also his mask is leathery, no horns ala taurus. He may not even be on lu, just a new aaa wrestler.


----------



## USAUSA1

The person am thinking of sucks and was in wsx.


----------



## xsw

Some people were speculating he was Matanza, but I doubt it (or pretty sure he's not).

But it seems Dario has "Taurus" written in his little notebook all the way back in February and has a bull in his desk, so that might be a hint. We'll find out in a couple of months (for spoiler readers)


----------



## xsw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/653702668259463168
Taurus keeps getting strong bookings, something to worry about is the very high number of foreign talent used by AAA. The peso has lost a lot of its value and is expected to keep losing value... even if El Patron and Rey Jr bring in 50% more people to the shows, with the exchange rate, AAA is probably doing the same money, and then AAA was doing pretty good before they showed up so an increase in attendance is hard to produce considering there are not that many big buildings to run in Mexico and when they do they do it for "PPV" like shows like 'mania or Rey de Reyes...

The only reason to bring that many "gringos", is if AAA has a deal with Univision (or someone) to get their weekly show on US TV.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Law Kid being rumored to be Low Ki in case people were wondering. Those gringos are in town for a non-aaa show. They got them in may aswell take advantage. And LU tapings, I hear they are mainly filming backstage and vignettes during those first production dates.


----------



## USAUSA1

I see no value in low ki. And freaking brodus clay ?


----------



## Rah

I leave for a week and Lucha goes nuts.

I'm torn on Mistico going back to CMLL. I think the promotion doing a Lesnar type angle in having Mistico take Atlantis' mask would make sense in certain contexts. The big win can be taken by Mistico, so if the fans reject the new guy, later down the road, the factor isn't lost. Then, when Mistico loses, both his legacy and Atlantis' mask is given on. The problem, though, is that CMLL has stars NOW. Waiting a few years isn't doing them favours. Just another star coming in to push these guys down. Mistico needs to lose his mask in a few years. Anyone actually see this happening?


Full videos from The Crash:


----------



## xsw

> The problem, though, is that CMLL *has *stars NOW.


You mean "needs" instead of "has"? 

Mistico CMLL return might be short lived. It all comes down to money, CMLL is not known to pay that much, and neither does AAA, but Mistico did and does good business as an indy guy. So, even if Mistico helps CMLL to have better crowds in some indy territories, he'll eventually butt heads with management about money. Unlike Shocker, who flopped away from GdI, 'tico doesn't seem to be tamed by his AAA/Indy run.

For a longer stay, CMLL office is the one which needs to yield in, and give him top spot and masks and championships, could happen... but people with power won't give it up that easily.


----------



## pgi86

Mistico's return to Arena Mexico and the 10/25 Lucha Libre Elite main event is:

Mistico and Volador Jr. vs. Rush and La Mascara

Nice!


----------



## Rah

Navarro/Solar vs Panther/Casas also on that show. WOW! Two can't miss matches.




xsw said:


> You mean "needs" instead of "has"?
> 
> Mistico CMLL return might be short lived. It all comes down to money, CMLL is not known to pay that much, and neither does AAA, but Mistico did and does good business as an indy guy. So, even if Mistico helps CMLL to have better crowds in some indy territories, he'll eventually butt heads with management about money. Unlike Shocker, who flopped away from GdI, 'tico doesn't seem to be tamed by his AAA/Indy run.
> 
> For a longer stay, CMLL office is the one which needs to yield in, and give him top spot and masks and championships, could happen... but people with power won't give it up that easily.


I don't have any drawing numbers behind me, but Rush seems a big star. Sombra could be there (or will be soon). Dragon Lee and Hechicero (huge smark following) need to be tapped into in the midcard. Sure, the last three (and maybe Rush) are all in the making, but CMLL desperately needs to MAKE stars, then. Not rely on the same old guard. 

CMLL books with the idea that "unless you're a star, we aren't promoting you as we should" not thinking about how guys like Atlantis or Mistico became those stars.


----------



## xsw

All Rush hair matches drew half houses, about the same Ultimo Guerrero drew vs Escorpion for a random show while Rush was in big profile feud (Terrible) at anniversary show or two of the main CMLL guys (Shocker and Casas, Shocker was supposed to be an historic moment) and had strong undercard, including mask matches or women's stipulation while Ultimo Guerrero was a one match show.

Not to mention Rush can't even sold out San Juan Pantitlan by himself (mid July), and outside of CMLL circuit Ingobernables draw dozens at best if someone dares to hire them (they came to Nuevo Laredo a couple of months ago)






As long as they don't have real tv, they won't be able to build stars, bringing Wagner, Park or Mysteziz will bring a few people in but ain't gonna solve anything


----------



## USAUSA1

I am glad aaa is booking Fenix and Pentagon in the top two matches a lot recently. I think aaa starting to realize these guys need to be shown with the top guys more. Still question bringing in low ki and brodus but I assume that's a Konnan/Rey request. Luckily low ki doesn't suck work rate wise.

Rush is a draw


----------



## Rah

PWInsider have been hinting at WWE discussing bringing Alberto back. They also noted that Alberto cancelled his WXW appearances which coincide with WWE's tour of Mexico. They could be talking shit but, if they aren't, things really aren't looking good for AAA.


----------



## Corey

Why on earth would Alberto agree to go back there after the way they fired him? I mean, obviously WWE is the top promotion that anyone could work for in the world, but you'd have to imagine his career took an even bigger turn once he was fired. Would seem like backtracking to me, although personally I'd love to see him back with the company since it's become so stale.


----------



## shlegglete

What are some of El Texano Jr's best matches?


----------



## USAUSA1

Tonight show looks fun.


----------



## Corey

shlegglete said:


> What are some of El Texano Jr's best matches?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

USAUSA1 said:


> Tonight show looks fun.


Card for Arena Mexico tonight at 8:30 CDT streaming live @http://www.clarosports.com/en-vivo/

*CAMPEONATO UNIVERSAL 2015*
ATLANTIS
vs
ÚLTIMO GUERRERO
* SEMIFINAL *
VOLADOR JR.®, MÁXIMO® Y EL VALIENTE®
vs
LA SOMBRA®, RUSH® Y MARCO CORLEONE
*CUARTA*
DRAGON LEE, STUKA Y GUERRERO MAYA
vs
KAMAITACHI, VIRUS Y BOBY ZAVALA
*TERCERA*
*CABELLERA CONTRA CABELLERA*
SHOCKERCITO
vs
DEMUS 3:16
*SEGUNDA*
MARCELA, ESTRELLITA Y VAQUERITA
vs
AMAPOLA, DALYS Y TIFFANY
*PRIMERA *
HOMBRE BALA JR., SÚPER HALCÓN JR. Y THE PANTHER
vs
SÚPER COMANDO, ARTILLERO Y SANGRE AZTECA​I think it would be ok to miss the first half hour if you have to. Do not miss Demus 3:16 vs Shockercito


----------



## amhlilhaus

I so hope demus goes over, what the fuck im interested in a minis match after only seeing both a handful of times????

So glad i can watch these again didnt check last week.

Cmll became part of my friday night real quick


----------



## obby

Could some one explain why mistico is out of AAA to me? Seems like he's burned all his bridges.


----------



## amhlilhaus

Anyone watching? Mines blocked??


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

amhlilhaus said:


> Anyone watching? Mines blocked??


I just got on. Says its blocked too. Looks like I'm catching up with AAA tonight.


----------



## amhlilhaus

I ♥ KEMONITO;53249090 said:


> amhlilhaus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone watching? Mines blocked??
> 
> 
> 
> I just got on. Says its blocked too. Looks like I'm catching up with AAA tonight.
Click to expand...

FUCKING SHIT!!!


----------



## Stetho

obby said:


> Could some one explain why mistico is out of AAA to me? Seems like he's burned all his bridges.


(Big) Problems with ADR mostly


----------



## USAUSA1

Myzteziz said aaa never offer him a contract. Myzteziz wanted to be the top guy and in a promotion with Rey and Adr you can't be the top guy. I expect him to cause problems in cmll overtime once he realized he still not the top guy.


----------



## amhlilhaus

USAUSA1 said:


> Myzteziz said aaa never offer him a contract. Myzteziz wanted to be the top guy and in a promotion with Rey and Adr you can't be the top guy. I expect him to cause problems in cmll overtime once he realized he still not the top guy.


Who would be over him on the face side in cmll? Atlantis?? Volador jr?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Cubsfan has uploaded the Arena Mexico show from Friday that was blocked. You should watch this trios. It's a great one. 

Dragon Lee, Guerrero Maya Jr., Stuka Jr. vs Boby Zavala, Kamaitachi, Virus
2015-10-16 @ Arena México 




]


----------



## USAUSA1

Kamaitachi is so great


----------



## Rah

Rest of the show is uploaded (and clipped) on Rudo Vision's YT channel. Might wait for an unclipped version to air, but the main event sounds good.


Rey Hechicero vs Trauma I (17/10/2015 Cara Lucha) - We're treated to the worst seats in the house, here, but I'll take it if it means my 2015 Hechicero binge can continue. Hechi started the year off in a criminally short unida caida match against Trauma II, now he's finishing it with another short, single fall match against brother Uno. Because there's still hope in wrestling, Hechicero is no stranger to Dinastia Navarro and has had a good couple tags with the boys the past year. Suffice to say, he knows their strategies and he can take their stuff and work some beautiful matwork between.

I don't think anything got as complex or visually appetising as the lengthy II/Hechicero falls in the Traumas/Hechicero & Xibalba tag but this didn't fall to Trauma II's criticisms of building an artwork and not trying to win a fight. Here, there was struggle. It's not in the vein of Fujiwara/Shamrock but it would keep daddy Navarro happy.

There's even a slight narrative inbetween the submissions. Hechicero's here to toy with the younger guy. He's not meeting him as an equal as he did Trauma II (in the previously mentioned tag) and his gameplan is to show Trauma up as someone who just cannot hang with him. Case in point, the starting lockup has Hechicero toying around by constantly moving his hands to frustrate Uno. He's doing his gator roll and just enjoying himself. Trauma does a nice armbar counter and he gets a "not bad kid" gesture from Hechicero for his trouble. You know how the story goes by now, Hechicero gets cockier while Trauma sticks to his game plan and starts getting more shine. 

While the finish was a nice salute to Hechicero showing off his veterancy, the setup felt forced, as is sadly the case with a lot of short fall lucha. There just isn't that build, they realise their time is up and just take it back to the showers. I'll definitely wait for Canal Imparable to do their magic with an unclipped version, but I'm not holding my breath the finish will look better in context. Pity, this was damn good as a quasi-maestro exhibition.


----------



## kimino

Anyone watched the hair vs hair? How it was?

Dragon Lee and Kamaitachi always deliver


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

kimino said:


> Anyone watched the hair vs hair? How it was?


Around **** ish . They should have been given more time. I will say it was better than Rey Escorpion vs Ultimo Guerrero hair match. 

Saw Puebla on YT live. Kinda wish I hadn't. It was pretty bad. Just poor-ok kinda show. The trios with Kamaitachi in it was solid but nothing great. The highlight of the show came at the end when Shocker suggested to further vindicate his rivalry with Sombra through a hair vs hair. 

Sombra's thoughts on the matter:









There seems to be a live show tonight streaming here http://cmll.cleeng.com/funcion-de-prueba-martes-de-nuevos-valores/E538437509_MX 

Because rumor of the dia de los muertos on Friday show being IPPV and this show tonight is a test run. You can register to watch tonight @ 7:30 CDT free I'm guessing. I'll be on later to confirm if thats the case. Card as follows:
*MAIN EVENT*
VOLADOR JR.®, SÚPER PORKY Y TITÁN
vs
ÚLTIMO GUERRERO, EUFORIA® Y GRAN GUERRERO
*SEMIFINAL*
ÁNGEL DE ORO®, DRAGON LEE Y STUKA
vs
MEPHISTO®, LUCIFERNO Y EPHESTO®
*CUARTA* (WOMEN)
POR EL CAMPEONATO NACIONAL FEMENIL
ZEUXIS
(CAMPEONA)
vs
(RETADORA)
PRINCESA SUGEHIT
*TERCERA*
FUEGO, PEGASSO Y ESFINGE
vs
VIRUS, TIGER Y PUMA
*SEGUNDA* 
SOBERANO, METATRÓN Y ORO JR.
vs
ARKÁNGEL, HIJO DEL SIGNO Y DISTURBIO
*PRIMERA* (MINIS)
ÁNGELITO Y ACERO
vs
PEQUEÑO OLÍMPICO Y PEQUEÑO VIOLENCIA​


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

CMLL stream seems to working but no sound. There are people talikng in the ring. No idea what this means.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Stream is over because they tape the remaining matches for a TV show. Nowhere did I ever see a mention of what would air.


----------



## kimino

Haha Sombra face and manerism make me think that taking the mask off was actually good for him

Does someone think we may see in Fantasticamania 2016 a Dragon Lee vs Kamaitachi match, maybe an apuesta or title match?


----------



## ArnDaddy

Anyone know where I can watch Heroes Inmortales online?


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

AAA's YT Channel


----------



## MR-Bolainas

AAA Heroes Inmortales IX!

Part 1:
* AAA Reina de Reinas Championship Match: Taya (C) vs La Hiedra vs Goya Kong vs Lady Shani vs Maravilla
* Tag Team Match: El Mesias & Brian Cage vs Drago & Fénix
* AAA Mega Championship Match: Alberto el Patron (C) vs Johnny Mundo





Part 2:
* AAA Tag Team Championship Match: Angélico & Jack Evans vs Pentagón Jr. & Joe Lider (c) vs Daga & Steve Pain
* Copa Antonio Peña 2015: Cibernético, La Parka, Blue Demon Jr., Averno, Hijo de Pirata Morgan, Electroshock, Aero Star, Chessman, Taurus
* Six Man Tag Team Match: Myzteziz, El Texano Jr. & El Hijo del Fantasma vs Rey Misterio Jr, Psycho Clown & Garza Jr


----------



## amhlilhaus

Alberto just fucked AAA so hard. 

Funny thing is that in 4 years when he leaves again the fans will embrace him again


----------



## Corey

The landscape of AAA just changed dramatically, huh? In the blink of an eye, Myzteziz and Alberto are gone. After the tragic loss of Perro. Terrible luck.


----------



## Vårmakos

The worst part is Alberto holds their top belt. What an asshole. They basically sacrificed Texano Jr. to put him over too.


----------



## USAUSA1

Alberto will finish up his dates with aaa. If aaa was smart, perfect time to let a lu star pin Alberto for the belt.


----------



## validreasoning

USAUSA1 said:


> Alberto will finish up his dates with aaa. If aaa was smart, perfect time to let a lu star pin Alberto for the belt.


doubt he will...he didn't come back in nxt he came back on the main roster meaning he is full time. the 2 week europe tour is next week then you have survivor series and big christmas program


----------



## MR-Bolainas

USAUSA1 said:


> Alberto will finish up his dates with aaa. If aaa was smart, perfect time to let a lu star pin Alberto for the belt.


Unless they vacate the title, Johnny Mundo should win the title on Guerra de Titanes but i think if Alberto is returning full time to wwe, he should have lost it at Heroes Inmortales IX.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

This further proves my point of them not having anybody ready on the rudo side to take advantage of this situation with. They should have gone with Mundo at Heroes imortales. Alberto beat everybody already. The situation will only benefit the heel group La Sociedad in storyline. Nobody is ready for the top spot other than Rey. Just a matter of how they do it. 

Then we can have more rounds of invading "gringos" challenging for the title.


Tonight at Arena Mexico was a Liga Elite show featuring indy talents vs CMLL guys. Show drew well, better than their friday shows. The problem is that it replaces the CMLL sunday show and that may cause a conflict between home grown cmll talent and Liga Elite. Because there will be less spots available for home based guys that would have work on Sundays. 

Mistic 2.0 made his debut teaming w/Volador jr. against Rush and La Mascara. AND changed his name again to Caristico. LMFAO
-this was the match people were most anxious about, garnered the most heat and reaction, said to be a good match with a lot of stalling

There was a maestros match too that got money thrown in. Not that it was that good but the crowd just appreciated the offering.


----------



## USAUSA1

I heard the show drew terrible around 1500.


----------



## Rah

Cubsfan posted that 8000 is the estimate, atm. Only half of the upper bowl sold. That's a decent to good gate but looking at the names the show promised, and a "star's return", it's pretty bad.


----------



## Stetho

Can I say Alberto is a scumbag ?


----------



## xsw

8000 is not horrible... but is much lower than the show with Wagner and ParK... and that one was pretty much a one match card... this one had Familia de Tijuana also returning and Solar/***** Navarro in the undercard. Worse yet, they'll prolly be down to normal numbers in a couple of weeks.

I doubt Alberto will be back in AAA to drop the title... not that it matters that much, the Megacampeonato hasn't even been defended in the two most recent 'manias... and when it has been defended it wasn't even maineventing. But Alberto no showing in his few remaining tv tapings and more importantly, some indy bookings is not good. AAA probably thought they had Alberto tied up and that's why they gave him the title in the first place (they never did with Aguayo Jr or Mysteziz), and now it probably go vacant. 

I think AAA wanted to run Mexico City more often and that was why they had Mysteziz, but it didn't work (and probably won't work for All Ellite and CMLL either), Alberto was doing better business, so it is a bigger hit.


----------



## amhlilhaus

I dont know enough about mexican wrestling culture so someone explain why pentagon beating rey wouldnt elevate him to top rudo?


----------



## USAUSA1

I guess it the same thing how beating Cena wouldn't make you a top heel. It all comes down to booking. Muertes rise in lucha underground is an example of that, that's how you book a top heel. It will take more than a win.


----------



## Stetho

AAA just have to put Alberto's money on Los Ingobernables now 0


----------



## Rah

Texano making the long awaited jump?

____________

There may have not drawn a full house, but those who came, were certainly loudly in love with seeing Mistico again:







Starts off a very strong match. Great first fall, and Ingobernables being the best in the world continues into the segunda. Volador messes up their comeback, and is kind of sloppy throughout. If this was unica caida and 10 minutes, this would be a MotYC. Great hopes for Rush/Mistico going forward.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Rah said:


> Texano making the long awaited jump?


I wish. They shat on him pretty bad and did nothing with Psycho Clown after their hair match. If I'm AAA, I go with Psycho as megachampion. Do a tournament probably. Have Mundo interfere in Rey's match and build that up..bring Hell Bros back into the main focus when Psycho beats Cibernetico in the final.. Run the Psycho Circus vs Hell Bros..break it down untill we get a rematch between Cibernetico and Psycho for the title.


----------



## Corey

News regarding Alberto:



> – According to pwinsider.com, WWE and Alberto Del Rio have been in communication for several weeks. Del Rio also had talks with TNA, but made the decision to return to WWE. Del Rio is still the reigning AAA Mega Champion, and AAA did not know about Del Rio’s WWE return until the day it happened.
> 
> – F4wonline adds Del Rio got a “very good deal” to return. They also state that WWE planned for Del Rio to be the mystery opponent for Cena before they actually announced the open challenge for the show. Del Rio’s new WWE schedule is said to be easier than most talents, but not as light as Chris Jericho, Brock Lesnar or The Undertaker’s schedules.
> 
> – Super Luchas is reporting that there is no deal between AAA and WWE, and that Del Rio will likely be allowed to fulfill his November dates. They also report that Del Rio negotiated with Triple H for his return. WWE made the move because of the need to try and push a top Latino star.


Guess it's likely he drops the AAA belt next month? Who knows. Can't blame the guy for taking big money on a relaxed schedule though. He _has_ been going back and forth all over the world since his firing.


----------



## xsw

Alberto was a good draw for AAA, but 14 months ago he was all over the place in tv, newspapers and more with all the fallout of his WWE firing, so AAA got a ton of media exposure. He's still drawing good, but the added value of media visibility was gone after it lost its novelty, so I guess AAA would want to "adjust" his paycheck (or probably did a while ago). 

I don't think they'll suffer that much for the tv tapings left in the year (or even thru 2016), but Guerra de Titanes is lacking a main event now. AAA international expansion is taking a hit, or maybe it is the other way around, AAA not touring the US made them harder to make enough cash to keep people happy.


----------



## Miguel De Juan

AAA has been plagued by problems all year from the death of Perro Aguayo Jr, losing talent to other promotions, and constant production failures on big ppv shows.

Not very good for them.


----------



## Stetho

You are so pessimistic... It's not the end of the world


----------



## obby

Mistico quitting AAA because of Alberto and then Alberto leaving three weeks later.

Fucking classic Sin Cara.


----------



## Pedro Vicious

On the positive side now they have to push the younger talent, move Pentagon to Mystezis spot and Fenix to Alberto's spot


----------



## xsw

The bad run started earlier, Rey de Reyes was a disaster, not only that, but a bus with AAA staff had an accident and a lady died - a week before Aguayo.

But it is probably not the worse AAA has seen, back in 2009, Abismo ***** died, it was a real mess since his drug addiction came up, and worse yet, someone used a fake Abismo in a house show so AAA got a ton of heat on that. Shortly after that, at the time megachampion and biggest draw Cibernetico, left the promotion, badmouthing AAA... lots of people were leaving or had left by then like Alebrije, Histeria II and Psicosis II, Scorpio Jr and Zumbido, Super Porky... and all of them trashing AAA. Many people were saying back then that AAA was on its deathbed.

We'll see how 2015 ends for AAA, at least I think there's some goodwill for them this time around.


----------



## USAUSA1

Adr was a draw and difference maker but the people talking like aaa is in trouble is overreacting. The only thing that can truly hurt aaa in a major way is losing tv.


----------



## Stetho

xsw said:


> The bad run started earlier, Rey de Reyes was a disaster, not only that, but a bus with AAA staff had an accident and a lady died - a week before Aguayo.
> 
> But it is probably not the worse AAA has seen, back in 2009, Abismo ***** died, it was a real mess since his drug addiction came up, and worse yet, someone used a fake Abismo in a house show so AAA got a ton of heat on that. Shortly after that, at the time megachampion and biggest draw Cibernetico, left the promotion, badmouthing AAA... lots of people were leaving or had left by then like Alebrije, Histeria II and Psicosis II, Scorpio Jr and Zumbido, Super Porky... and all of them trashing AAA. Many people were saying back then that AAA was on its deathbed.
> 
> We'll see how 2015 ends for AAA, at least I think there's some goodwill for them this time around.


Rey de Reyes had a problem because of the weather, it's not a dishonor. Don't take it as an insult, but I always find you way too critical about AAA.


----------



## Corey

Stetho said:


> You are so pessimistic... It's not the end of the world





Stetho said:


> Rey de Reyes had a problem because of the weather, it's not a dishonor. Don't take it as an insult, but I always find you way too critical about AAA.


These guys aren't being overly critical, they're simply stating the EXTREMELY unfortunate facts. When you have people dying within your company, you're having terrible luck with your major shows (whether it be weather or technical related), and you're losing your top stars to to other organizations, it's clearly not a good time for AAA. You can remain hopeful all you want and say it's not the end of the world, but it's obviously been pretty rough.


----------



## Miguel De Juan

USAUSA1 said:


> Adr was a draw and difference maker but the people talking like aaa is in trouble is overreacting. The only thing that can truly hurt aaa in a major way is losing tv.


I am not saying they are in trouble like going out of business but this year has been bad when one of their top heels dies that is bad enough but couple that with production problems and Mistico and Alberto leaving yeah this is just not there year.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

I ♥ KEMONITO;53522722 said:


> I wish. They shat on him pretty bad and did nothing with Psycho Clown after their hair match. If I'm AAA, I go with Psycho as megachampion. Do a tournament probably. Have Mundo interfere in Rey's match and build that up..bring Hell Bros back into the main focus when Psycho beats Cibernetico in the final.. Run the Psycho Circus vs Hell Bros..break it down untill we get a rematch between Cibernetico and Psycho for the title.


I am a huge fan of Pyscho Clown. I agree in that he should be a Mega champion. :smile2:


----------



## USAUSA1

Jbl calling Adr the AAA Mega champion and former cmll champion was a surprise. But James Storm been on the indies for 15 years lol.

I definitely have faith Adr will drop the title on an AAA show even more now.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Just saw CMLL Puebla live and just want to let you know the main was good. La Sombra vs Shocker for the NWA title. Sombra carried the match like a true superstar. You have to witness how much more charasmatic he is without the mask. Match is solid around ***1/2-***3/4


----------



## Rah

I'm eating my words with Sombra. I'm still not happy with him losing his mask, but he's been on fire since. Still a great douchebag, and I think he may be actively trying to work harder after the apuesta loss in maintaining his aura.

As for AAA, I do think there's room for negativity. They've had a very bad year - eso que ni qué - but they've had worse. These guys were all big players in helping give AAA new life. How will AAA react? Push new stars or rely on their hold hands? That's what I'm worried about. Guys like Perro, ADR and Mistico would help give them big business now while letting the newer stars grow organically. I don't know how big Pentagon Jr is in Mexico, I know he has a huge American smark following because of Lucha Underground (and I imagine a similar smark audience in Mexico, noting those bloodbaths he's given on the indies) but is he a big enough name to be put into the top spot against someone like Rey?


----------



## Stetho

Jack Evans 187 said:


> These guys aren't being overly critical, they're simply stating the EXTREMELY unfortunate facts. When you have people dying within your company, you're having terrible luck with your major shows (whether it be weather or technical related), and you're losing your top stars to to other organizations, it's clearly not a good time for AAA. You can remain hopeful all you want and say it's not the end of the world, but it's obviously been pretty rough.


Sure, but bad luck makes me want to support them more than anything. Wrestling fans need to get the "fan" back, not just the cynical reviewer (once again, don't take it as an insult).

Plus, yes Sombra is awesome now.


----------



## USAUSA1

AAA need to go back to pushing guys like Texano and Psycho Clown.


----------



## amhlilhaus

Never understood why promotions dont push talented youngsters asap to see if they get massively over. Pro wrestling is an entertainment business, and people always want fresh entertainment.


----------



## prepasur

A little informative image

https://i.imgur.com/vRkzBCN.png


----------



## Tha Pope

prepasur said:


> A little informative image
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/vRkzBCN.png


I always forget there's a Rey Mysterio Sr. out there.


----------



## kimino

Místico, Oriber Peralta (Mexico striker), and Hamilton (F1 champion) playing "futbolito" in the Arena México LOL.


----------



## kimino

https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/659524616902352896


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Caifan vs Gran Guerrero Arena Coliseo Monterrey 25 Oct. 2015 
I am unsure if Ultimo was supposed to make this show but his brother did and he put on a great match with one of the finest luchadors on the indys. There seems to be a portion of the match cut out. Of course 20 people are recording it on their phone and only 1 version gets uploaded. Caifan is the hometown hero and you can tell be watching. How he protects his worth and tries to convey dominance over his opponent. Great match


----------



## Stetho

kimino said:


> https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/659524616902352896


Fuck yeah :usangle


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Tonight is CMLL dia de los muertos show! 9:30 CDT You can buy the show through http://cmll.cleeng.com/dia-de-muertos-en-la-arena-mexico/E399827173_MX 
PRICE INCLUDING FEES: $7.62 USD *credit to thecubsfan
Which is just another Friday with some bodypaint, lighting, costumes. The card looks so-so. I wouldn't recommend ordering. Not enough of the guys I like to watch and predictable matches...another Volador vs Sombra. Its going to be good but this match has been done to death. Finish will have to involve Naito.










And if you didn't know Alberto will not be returning to Mexico is the word going around. I am actually beginning to believe that they knew about a potential deal or contact at the very least, before Heroes Inmortales and still kept the belt on Alberto.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

I ♥ KEMONITO;53660402 said:


> And if you didn't know Alberto will not be returning to Mexico is the word going around. I am actually beginning to believe that they knew about a potential deal or contact at the very least, before Heroes Inmortales and still kept the belt on Alberto.


He probably will lose it in Guerra de Titanes in December, if WWE Allows it, if not AAA will have to vacate the title.


----------



## Rah

It's time...


----------



## Stetho

This Dia de Muertos thing looks super cool, I hope it will be uploaded on youtube soon.


----------



## kimino

Sombra vs Rush if they are doing this... would love the feud but its too soon for me, Aniversario main event feud


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I got to see the show before going out, with a group of non wrestling fans. They loved the show. I thought it was an entertaining show with 1 really good match. If you've seen Sombra vs Volador before you knew what you were getting. This time each guy threw in a few new moves to prolong the drama. 

There was a theme to the show where the losers were carried off by aztec warriors to be sacrificed. All while they played this corny dramatic horror music. The mascots Zacarias, Mije, and Kemonito were wearing a cloth and large skull helmets. They just sat on the steps and jumped around to enhance matches. Lights and dances between matches. Just a fun show that was not about the luchas. 

They did the big tease of Sombra vs Rush but they squashed it and left. Sombra said it was nothing. That "he wanted to show people he could out wrestle Volador without needing tricks/cheating and that he did not tell the other ingobernables his strategy." Still an Ingobernable.- Obviously a big money angle that they are cooking up. But strange they would do it before Mistico shows up and is a constant.


----------



## dondada7

I keep getting the feeling that La Sombra may get a call from the WWE shortly. He's been on fire lately and he comes off as such a douchebag, HHH has to be intrigued. 
As a matter of fact, I wouldn't mind Los Ingobernables signing with NXT. 



I ♥ KEMONITO;53681522 said:


> I got to see the show before going out, with a group of non wrestling fans. They loved the show. I thought it was an entertaining show with 1 really good match. If you've seen Sombra vs Volador before you knew what you were getting. This time each guy threw in a few new moves to prolong the drama.
> 
> There was a theme to the show where the losers were carried off by aztec warriors to be sacrificed. All while they played this corny dramatic horror music. The mascots Zacarias, Mije, and Kemonito were wearing a cloth and large skull helmets. They just sat on the steps and jumped around to enhance matches. Lights and dances between matches. Just a fun show that was not about the luchas.
> 
> They did the big tease of Sombra vs Rush but they squashed it and left. Sombra said it was nothing. That "he wanted to show people he could out wrestle Volador without needing tricks/cheating and that he did not tell the other ingobernables his strategy." Still an Ingobernable.- Obviously a big money angle that they are cooking up. But strange they would do it before Mistico shows up and is a constant.


----------



## Stetho

dondada7 said:


> I keep getting the feeling that La Sombra may get a call from the WWE shortly. He's been on fire lately and he comes off as such a douchebag, HHH has to be intrigued.
> As a matter of fact, I wouldn't mind Los Ingobernables signing with NXT.


----------



## USAUSA1

Konnan dropping hints of Sombra to the wwe.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

USAUSA1 said:


> Konnan dropping hints of Sombra to the wwe.


----------



## NakNak

Guys, I want to watch some AAA & CMLL, even indy stuff from Mexico
Recommendations? @Rah I see you are a big fan of Ingobernables stuff and old school stuff...that can be helpful lol.


----------



## Stetho

AAA's shows are on their youtube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/luchalibreaaatv/videos), maybe you should start with Heroes Inmortales. CMLL is harder to find, but thecubsfan (https://www.youtube.com/user/thecubsfan/search?query=sombra) is a must see when it comes to lucha.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

NakNak said:


> Guys, I want to watch some AAA & CMLL, even indy stuff from Mexico
> Recommendations? @Rah I see you are a big fan of Ingobernables stuff and old school stuff...that can be helpful lol.


Recently Rush was discussed and matches were recommended.
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/52805058-post2719.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/52813322-post2721.html

I recommend any match with Virus from cmll is in. He never has a bad match. Quite honestly one of the best ever luchadors. If you want to follow a promotion get familiar with the guys first so you know what to expect. Example - Dragon Rojo, Thunder, Polvora vs Gran Guerrero, Euforia, Niebla Roja.. I see this listed, skip it. It will never be better than good or in stars (if thats your thing) ***1/2. 

For the best lucha your best bet is CMLL. 2015 has been Dragon Lee's year. Be sure to check out all his matches with Kamaitachi, a NJPW guy getting experiance in cmll. Most title defenses are a guarantee a good match. 

Watch AAA midcard guys like Steve Pain, Machine Rocker, Carta Brava jr, Aerostar, Dinastia, Daga, Fenix usually are guarantee for a good match, if your just looking for match quality. Myzteziz has been rocking it, but the other main eventers are not as good. 

Sub to Cubsfan and AAA YT channels. Read luchablog and wiki any guy that peaks your interest also if you can understand espanol, there are interviews on yt filled with bits of info that will help you learn abuout lucha.


----------



## NakNak

I ♥ KEMONITO;53730658 said:


> Recently Rush was discussed and matches were recommended.
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/52805058-post2719.html
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/52813322-post2721.html
> 
> I recommend any match with Virus from cmll is in. He never has a bad match. Quite honestly one of the best ever luchadors. If you want to follow a promotion get familiar with the guys first so you know what to expect. Example - Dragon Rojo, Thunder, Polvora vs Gran Guerrero, Euforia, Niebla Roja.. I see this listed, skip it. It will never be better than good or in stars (if thats your thing) ***1/2.
> 
> For the best lucha your best bet is CMLL. 2015 has been Dragon Lee's year. Be sure to check out all his matches with Kamaitachi, a NJPW guy getting experiance in cmll. Most title defenses are a guarantee a good match.
> 
> Watch AAA midcard guys like Steve Pain, Machine Rocker, Carta Brava jr, Aerostar, Dinastia, Daga, Fenix usually are guarantee for a good match, if your just looking for match quality. Myzteziz has been rocking it, but the other main eventers are not as good.
> 
> Sub to Cubsfan and AAA YT channels. Read luchablog and wiki any guy that peaks your interest also if you can understand espanol, there are interviews on yt filled with bits of info that will help you learn abuout lucha.


I'm from Chile, so I speak Español :grin2: thanks for the the recommendations dude!


----------



## xsw

USAUSA1 said:


> Konnan dropping hints of Sombra to the wwe.


Konnan is not reliable for AAA/LU stuff... much less for CMLL >

Andrade is a pretty good talent, and extremely young, but he'd be Sin Cara all over again. Original Mistico pretty much refused to learn English or was unable to do, and that's going to be a big problem. WWE would be better if they held tryouts, welcomed and interviewed people in English, if they can't hold their own, thank them and send them home... then go to the in ring tryout.

New Japan already offered a deal for Sombra and he turned them down, WWE's would be a much bigger thing, but maybe he's just not interested in leaving his comfort zone... going to WWE like Mistico... maybe, going to NXT... hardly...


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

If they give Sombra a fat contract, of course he would. Its the reprogramming that will do his head in. Then the constant uphill battle with bullshit writers. Sombra is just beginning to taste his stardom in living daily life with people knowing who he is. When that buzz wears off is when it could possibly happen aswell.


----------



## obby

I ♥ KEMONITO;53730658 said:


> Recently Rush was discussed and matches were recommended.
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/52805058-post2719.html
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/52813322-post2721.html
> 
> I recommend any match with Virus from cmll is in. He never has a bad match. Quite honestly one of the best ever luchadors. If you want to follow a promotion get familiar with the guys first so you know what to expect. Example - Dragon Rojo, Thunder, Polvora vs Gran Guerrero, Euforia, Niebla Roja.. I see this listed, skip it. It will never be better than good or in stars (if thats your thing) ***1/2.
> 
> For the best lucha your best bet is CMLL. 2015 has been Dragon Lee's year. Be sure to check out all his matches with Kamaitachi, a NJPW guy getting experiance in cmll. Most title defenses are a guarantee a good match.
> 
> Watch AAA midcard guys like Steve Pain, Machine Rocker, Carta Brava jr, Aerostar, Dinastia, Daga, Fenix usually are guarantee for a good match, if your just looking for match quality. Myzteziz has been rocking it, but the other main eventers are not as good.
> 
> Sub to Cubsfan and AAA YT channels. Read luchablog and wiki any guy that peaks your interest also if you can understand espanol, there are interviews on yt filled with bits of info that will help you learn abuout lucha.


Best Virus match from the last year?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

obby said:


> Best Virus match from the last year?



Starts @ 26:35 Virus vs Dr. Cerebro


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Guess who's back


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/661421299525267457


----------



## Stetho

Jeez... Instead of pushing a young rudo they just bring back a douchebag to feud with Rey Mysterio. Well fucking done AAA.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

i wonder how many time is going to last Dr Wagner Jr in AAA with all the things he said about them months ago. i hope this time he last longer than last time.

They still don't push a Young rudo because they are in another feuds: 

-Hijo del Fantasma is now leader of La Sociedad and possibly could be pushed for the megacampeonato in next months.
-Pentagon Jr (w/ Joe Lider) is now in a feud vs Angelico & Jack Evans for the tag team title, but i think he's still not seen as a draw by AAA management.
-Daga is now in a feud with Australian Suicide that could lead to a mask vs hair match in Guerra de titanes or something related.
-Texano Jr could be a option for the megacampeonato but he was champion some years ago for almost 2 years.
-Cage could be a option too as he was in some megachampionship matches.
-Johnny Mundo will probably be in some feud with Rey Misterio Jr altough Low Ki is going to be in the next taping so this could change.


----------



## xsw

Stetho said:


> Jeez... Instead of pushing a young rudo they just bring back a douchebag to feud with Rey Mysterio. Well fucking done AAA.


The problem is that local promoters won't be happy about Alberto no showing up... AAA can't tell them "hey, we'll send Fantasma or Pentagon Jr" since the promoters would want a refund, so Wagner was the right move... heck, he was more over than the "dream team" in the lucha world cup, and drew better in ArMex and Guadalajara ex-Mistico's big return...

Once Alberto's booked dates are done... we'll see where they go... wouldn't be surprised if Mysteziz returns after his quasi-CMLL return not setting the world on fire, pulling the Mysteziz vs Rey Jr 'mania main event out of nowhere didn't sell the place out, but it soon gained steam, it's obviously the big money maker for Mysteziz but he blew it...>

I think AAA knows that Psycho Clown is their new "La Parka" and that Texano Jr will be a main eventer, they should bring a new Parka (III) just to have a back up plan and retire old Parka Jr... besides that, they seem to want to push some highflyers (Drago is already 40 years old, and Aerostar is rumored to be about the same age), they'll try Fenix, and then there's Flamita... finding tecnicos might be AAA's priority over finding young rudos.


----------



## Stetho

Of course Wagner is a draw, I can't deny that. But I find it kinda sad.


----------



## USAUSA1

Feed is working


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

USAUSA1 said:


> Feed is working


I wasn't counting on it, but it is. here http://www.clarosports.com/panamericanos/en-vivo/#canal-2


----------



## USAUSA1

Thunder, stay away


----------



## Vårmakos

Why does Mistico have the Undertaker gong? :lmao


----------



## USAUSA1

Sombra is on fire


----------



## USAUSA1

Rush vs Sombra next Friday


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

USAUSA1 said:


> Rush vs Sombra next Friday


Both Rush and Sombra give eachother low blows for the dq finish. Sombra postmatch say that they are still cool. No heat between them. Rush grabs mic and says that they have ran out of worthy challengers. All thats left is to face eachother 1 on 1. Puts over the talent of Los Ingobernables. Sombra accepts for next week. 

This will be Sombra's last match in mexico before going off to New Japan.


----------



## USAUSA1

It's possible Sombra might be gone for longer than expected.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

IT definitely raises some suspicions. But it may just be a lead in to Caristico vs Rush so buisiness doesn't take a hit.


----------



## Callow

Hey everybody, bit of a long shot but worth a go..

I'm a graphic designer and am looking to produce a magazine celebrating Lucha Libre. Producing a whole magazine from scratch by myself might be a slightly optimistic goal so what would be amazing is some support from some of you. If you would like to contribute to my project in any way it would be massively appreciated..i'm hoping to cover a wide area of topics such as interviews, reports, reviews etc. If you'd like to know anymore about my project or want to be involved in anyway then drop me a PM  Again, thanks for reading!


----------



## Stetho

Callow said:


> Hey everybody, bit of a long shot but worth a go..
> 
> I'm a graphic designer and am looking to produce a magazine celebrating Lucha Libre. Producing a whole magazine from scratch by myself might be a slightly optimistic goal so what would be amazing is some support from some of you. If you would like to contribute to my project in any way it would be massively appreciated..i'm hoping to cover a wide area of topics such as interviews, reports, reviews etc. If you'd like to know anymore about my project or want to be involved in anyway then drop me a PM  Again, thanks for reading!


I don't think I could help you much with your magazine but it's definitely a cool project.
Looking forward to it.


----------



## USAUSA1

Cibernetico and Chessman jumping? Can't be true

Dorian has a big interview tomorrow, maybe we will find out more.


----------



## xsw

I ♥ KEMONITO;53891642 said:


> This will be Sombra's last match in mexico before going off to New Japan.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/663598175328993281
He's probably not going after all.:surprise:




USAUSA1 said:


> Cibernetico and Chessman jumping? Can't be true
> 
> Dorian has a big interview tomorrow, maybe we will find out more.


More of a surprise that Chessman is leaving (if they are), Averno should be there so it's probably Hell Brothers package. Hopefully, Blue Demon Jr also jumps and takes their awful feud there. >


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I actually watched NJ show live and got word of EVIL instead of Sombra. Just haven't been able to get on here since then. 

I wont believe AAA is working with CMLL untill the guys step through that curtain. Dorian's confrence should reveal the details if any. Because in lucha things can and will change at the last minute. Maybe this could be a doorway for Alberto to drop the belt on neutral ground? thats reaching

I've been so loaded with work this weekend I haven't had the time to browse any wrestling. Maybe tonight I'll find some indy matches to post.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

They will Crown a new champion in Guerra de Titanes and more info about lucha Underground, here: https://www.periscope.tv/w/1OyKAmMmDZbKb


----------



## xsw

Seemingly... pretty uneventful Dorian interview...


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Yeah, at least he gave some info about AAA and Lucha Underground.

But now what seems more interesting is: what's happening with Cibernetico & Chessman? apparently Cibernetico has left AAA according to his twitter but it could be trolling as he was listed on a EliteLucha Lineup or also he could be he is working some dates with them as Laredo Kid did some days ago. Cibernetico has been with AAA for almost 20 years


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Cibernetico and Chessman are booked for Lucha Elite across from Caristico. Fans asked him straight up if he's out of AAA and he said "correcto" but Cibernetico is one of the biggest proponents of AAA since returning to them and has been apart of elaborate angles/works that have involved people outside of wrestling (pseudo-celebrities) that have drawn in many supporters. He is a guy that always gets a good reaction anywhere they go. 

Chessman is not as big a star and hasn't been treated like one in a long time. He is viewed as the main event worker that can have a decent match with anyone, and base for people. He has been heavily relied upon to cover for others lack of in ring capabilities. I think AAA has got that role fullfilled with the likes of Texano,Fantasma, Pentagon jr., Mesias and now Taurus. 

People are still doubting the sincerity of the situation. That Ciber/Chess will remain with AAA and are only doing the date to get themselves over. Either way AAA will be fine. There may be a chance of seeing higher quality matches with all these departures.


----------



## USAUSA1

I remember Cibernetico leaving years ago and then coming back. I guess with the recent departures of Adr and Myzteziz it makes for a good story but hindsight it is what it is. I wonder if some veterans upset they're not a part of luchaunderground. Cibernetico,La parka and Chessman help carry aaa in the past 15 years and am sure they feel some type of way. Luchaunderground is an extra pay check,extra exposure. 

I am more concerned about aaa double booking talent. Very reckless


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

The arrival of Wagner must have been a factor. Also how they've been forcing Lucha Undergound into AAA and booked outsider talent prominently.

The reasons to leave are there.


----------



## Stetho

I don't really care about Chessman but come on, Cibernetico was pretty much the symbol of what AAA is today (imo). Lanscape is changing...


----------



## Rah

Any of you guys know people who sell lucha libre matches/shows? I'm looking for a specific apuesta: Faraon vs Sangre Chicana (1986-03-07 CMLL). 




I ♥ KEMONITO;53971930 said:


> The arrival of Wagner must have been a factor. Also how they've been forcing Lucha Undergound into AAA and booked outsider talent prominently.
> 
> The reasons to leave are there.


Watched this yesterday. Fun little match with everyone trying hard to impress the crowd. Well worth seeing.





NakNak said:


> Guys, I want to watch some AAA & CMLL, even indy stuff from Mexico
> Recommendations? @Rah I see you are a big fan of Ingobernables stuff and old school stuff...that can be helpful lol.


Depends what type of wrestling you like, but I ♥ KEMONITO definitely covered the bases.

Firstly, read Cubsfan's blog. Show results, recaps and reviews are all here (across pretty much ever promotion in Mexico). Everything is colour coded to let you know who the good guys, bad guys, tweener/no alignment and unknowns are. His tastes are more for high action lucha, and his MotY lists reflect that. 

I actually think Kemonito undersold Virus to you. He's not just one of the best ever luchadores, he's one of the best ever wrestlers. Period. If he's in a title match it's usually no less than a MotYC, and if he has someone who can keep up it's a match of the decade contender (definitely look for his matches against Guerrero Maya Jr in 2011 & 2013). He's been very good for more than two decades, so here's a bit of a catch up:

Cicloncito Ramirez & Ultimo Dragoncito v Damiancito El Guerrero & Pierrotito (04/05/1997) 
Virus vs Cicloncito Ramirez (01/02/1997)
Bracito De Oro/Cicloncito Ramirez/Mascarita Magica vs Damiancito El Guerrero/El Fierito/Pierrothito (3/10/1997) - part 1
Demus vs Virus (hair/division)
Guerrero Maya vs Virus (07/06/2011)
Guerrero Maya vs Virus (06/10/2013)
Virus v Dragon Lee (09/12/1997)

There's earlier matches with him as Piratita Morgan. The First two matches are a very athletic while the last few are a mix of high-flying and beautiful submissions.

*Bloodbaths*
Outside of armdrags, this is probably what Lucha Libre is most famous for. Nothing is better than a lucha bloodbath when done right. It's disgustingly violent, and it looks like the two wrestlers really do hate each other. Guys like *Pirata Morgan, Satanico, Perro Aguayo, El Faraon, Sangre Chicana, Black Terry and Los Villanos* are all great names to look for if 80s/90s bloodbaths are your thing. Generally, bloodbaths are saved for when feuds mean a great deal. If it's a betting (apuesta) match, for the hair or mask, you know the two wrestlers hate each other and there'll be buckets of blood. CMLL doesn't allow blood in their matches, anymore, and some people think this hurts the product, but if you give some of the Rush matches a go from my list, or the Blue Panther vs ***** Casas feud from 2012 (start here) you'll see CMLL can do a brawl with the best of them. Word of warning, if you're a bit squeamish, skip Pirata Morgan, he's a sick fuck that amongst other stuff DRINKS the blood of his enemies.

LA Park vs Dr Wagner (11/05/2013)
Pirata Morgan vs El Faraon (16/11/1990)
El Satanico vs Pirata Morgan (19/11/1993)
El Hijo Del Santo vs Espanto Jr (31/08/1986)


*Technical Wrestling*
A lot of wrestling fans look down upon lucha libre matwork. Apparently the holds are too soft, and it looks too much like ballet. If you've watched any of those Virus matches you know that's nonsense. Bad wrestlers are just that, bad wrestlers. That said, there's a difference in style when "maestros" (Solar & Navarro) wrestle, as it's a definite exhibition. The point isn't just winning, it's about making yourself look better than your opponent. The submissions look loose mostly because they are, it's about intricate matwork and letting your opponent slip out so you can counter them. It's definitely not a style I would recommend those new to lucha libre to try, without that understanding. For the most part, lucha title matches are worked with a focus on matwork throughout. They're more "overseen" by the Lucha Commission and a need to continue the tradition still exists. Brawling is frowned upon, but not non-existent. There is a definite change in more recent CMLL, where the formula follows a best-of-both-worlds approach:
*Primera:* matwork
*Segunda:* mixed
*Tercera:* high-flying (but usually ending in submission)


Espanto Jr vs El Hijo Del Santo (10/04/1988)
Gran Cochise vs El Satanico (??/10/1984)
El Dandy vs Angel Azteca (01/06/1990)
Blue Panther vs El Mariachi (30/10/1994)
Bracito De Oro/Cicloncito Ramirez/Mascarita Magica vs Damiancito El Guerrero/El Fierito/Pierrothito (3/10/1997) - part 1
Guerrero Maya vs Virus (07/06/2011)


----------



## BillThompson

Stetho said:


> I don't really care about Chessman but come on, Cibernetico was pretty much the symbol of what AAA is today (imo). Lanscape is changing...


Chessman would be a huge loss. He's not one of their top guys anymore, but he's been the picture of consistency for AA for years now when it comes to the quality of his performances night in and night out. Losing him would be like AAA losing the rock that everyone else can spring off of.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

this could have started in Heroes Inmortales IX when Taurus won the Copa Antonio Peña, Cibernetico was there and must have not liked that a new character won the cup outta nowhere.

Now CMLL lists the Elite Main Event show as "Polemico encuentro estelar" so this could mean that Hell Brothers are now there instead of being on AAA TV Taping in Ciudad Juarez that starts half hour later.

The bright side of this is that now there are 3 spots for Young rudos like Pentagon Jr, Hijo del Fantasma & Taurus


----------



## xsw

Cibernetico walked out on AAA while being mega champion in late 2008... he was back by next year's 'mania, and they kinda make it look as if it was an angle -was somewhat similar to when Perros del Mal left CMLL and were supposed to work together but it didn't work out. Cibernetico was booked on some AAA shows and he never showed up and he went on to work with Aguayo for a while and seemingly book or promote himself with "Los Bizarros". Him leaving by himself kinda makes AAA a favor... Chessman had a good run at making matches look at least a bit passable for years, he probably won't be missed by now for his ring work... but his gimmick is owned by AAA, so if he keeps using it, that will be a problem, how are they going to prevent Psycho Clown walking out on them if Octagon, Cibernetico and Chessman leave the company and keep using the same gimmick?

Nothing new was said during Dorian's interview... but it seems there's some double standard for Alberto and ex-Mistico. AdR screw them much worse "he wanted to work a couple of dates but wasn't able" is bullshit, but Roldan was very understanding while they burried Mysteziz just days later for a lesser offence. I'm thinking that might be more of a personal relationship thing, Dorian and Alberto got somewhat similar backgrounds, middle class, educated young guys who are somewhat leading their lucha families while ex-Mistico is more of a low class type of guy. 

"Sombra" got a very similar background to ex-Mysteziz, which makes me think he wouldn't work in WWE either, he's already main evented CMLL big shows and working from the ground up in nxt wouldn't by that appealing (wwe would be crazy to bring him to the main roster right away), and he's probably wrestled since before entering elementary school and knew he was going to be a wrestler all his life, so unlike Alberto, who likely learnt English while he was having his education in exclusive private schools, Andrade would need to learn the language as a grown men, which is hard to do in this age and day, specially in the US where one just moves to a neighborhood where everyone everywhere speaks Spanish and on tv there are enough stations with your language so you don't have to bother with English at all.


----------



## USAUSA1

Aaa and Cmll following each other.......

There's also a possibility the Hell Brothers change their minds.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Averno and Chessman are booked on a Johnny Rodz show in NY, aswell as Caristico and Zeuxis. We just have to wait untill they pull the trigger for them to appear on a official cmll show. The elite show has been changed around. Now seeing Hijos de Averno instaed of Hell Bros. in the main.

I think Sombra has been earmarked for WWE and will be there soon if not after Dos Leyendas show. Another tell is that New Japan did not include him in their plans for the world tag league.


----------



## xsw

I ♥ KEMONITO;54029986 said:


> Another tell is that New Japan did not include him in their plans for the world tag league.


Every time there's a NJPW tour, people go hyping someone from CMLL being there... and it never happens. Seemingly, NJ has no interest in CMLL other than not making them angry or something :surprise: Sombra not included follows the same trend so I don't see how it would be related to him going to WWE.

More of a money issue, NJ surely wants to send Mascara Dorada to Mexico while taking Sombra, with no extra cash involved, and that's not gonna fly. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/664566505598640128
Hope this goes better than Naito going to Mexico and CMLL not using him at all >


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Sombra was in the tournament last year, to say he wasn't atleast contemplated for it this year is a stretch. I highly doubt NJ sincerely think EVIL is an all time great gimmick. Most likely is that CMLL did not want Sombra to get pinned, much less by a ROH guy like last year. Neither do they want Naito to eat the fall. Considering how hot he has gotten. So they brought back Watanabe.. But the mini fued with Rush right now and putting over volador jr raises suspicions. 

And if you watched cmll informa with Rush on today he says " Los ingobernables are growing. We are in all parts of the world. We have lots of surprises coming." mentions Japan, and "coming to the United States"


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Did I work Sombra into a shoot? He posted on instagram, "still in cmll. I love rumors"
https://instagram.com/p/-AFyRGlnGD/


----------



## Rah

Hmm, I hear Connecticut is cold this time of year...


Averno was replaced on that AAA Mexico Madness show with 


Spoiler: .



Gronda II (because Groon XXX is being paid far too much to fight Canek Jr, it seems)









I'm a bit confused as to why they'd replace him, when he was at the show with Chessman? There's also less fans than an IWRG taping; which is something I'd never thing possible


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

That is so AAA to use him and not the other one. The big story was that Averno and Chessman were there when everybody thought they were out of the company. Cibernetico is the only for sure guy gone, as recognized by his ex-fellow employees. He is big enough a star to make a living doing indys and charasmatic enough to do things out of wrestling.

Tonight is Arena Mexico show featuring Rush vs La Sombra in the main event. In what could be Sombra's last match in cmll 
Clarosports have mentioned it will not be available outside of mexico. You never know. I will check and post here if its on or not.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Stream is up http://www.clarosports.com/en-vivo02/


----------



## Hurin




----------



## USAUSA1

Awww


----------



## USAUSA1

Dragon Lee, Super Porky, Titán vs Kamaitachi, Pólvora, Vangellys is on right now


----------



## USAUSA1

Dragon Lee hangtime is crazy


----------



## USAUSA1

Too short


----------



## Lazyking

Super parka is awful.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Sombra has been taken off the Puebla show next week. Let the rumors fly. 

Rush vs Sombra was good but not a motyc and not even close. I'd recomend the opener and womens trios to anyone who wants to watch a current match. Both had people working their boots off and quick pace.


----------



## USAUSA1

Crowd wasn't into the match at all.


----------



## Stetho

I love Sombra's work. The match was nice. It's cool if he stays in Mexico for now.


----------



## Rah

no

NONONONONONONONO

no


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Puebla tonight was a good show. Better than most weeks. Recommending REY COMETA, STIGMA Y FUEGO vs VIRUS, BOBBY Z Y DISTURBIO and ÁNGEL DE ORO vs HECHICERO (lightning) the trios was great. Boby Z and Disturbio made a very good team. Remind of a big bad wrecking crew kinda tag team. They just need an orchestrator to put the pieces together, on this occasion it was Virus. Not many better than him.

Big news was the list of the FANTASTICAMANIA 2016 PARTICIPANTS dropped during the show. Mistico, Volador, Atlantis, Maya,Dragon Lee, Stuka jr, Fuego, Mascara Dorada, Titan, Panther, Mephisto, UG, Hechicero, Bobby Z, Virus, Cavernario, Okumura....NO INGOBERNABLES!!

Another log being thrown onto the Sombra to WWE rumor fire.


----------



## USAUSA1

It'll be funny if Sombra was the guy konnan was talking about. He was talking about Sombra more than usual.


----------



## Flair Shot

The original Psicosis is back in AAA, as part of PdM.

Considering the history between Lider and Psicosis this could be interesting.


----------



## Rah

So, Sombra's going on vacation.



Spoiler: .


----------



## Vårmakos

this whole sombra thing has me worried he may actually leave cmll. hopefully this is all an elaborate troll.


----------



## USAUSA1

Aaa doesn't make sense but they should put the title on Mundo because he actually under some type of contract and can bring the belt to luchaunderground. Although I think Rey would let konnan know in advance if he was leaving, Rey is probably looking for one big payday from wwe.


----------



## Corey

I'm... not understanding Rah's post. :lol Whether it was meant to be a joke or not, it's making me lol so who the fuck knows.


----------



## xsw

Well... Andrade is finally in NXT (or performance center). Good luck to him. 


> Formerly known as “La Sombra,” Oropeza is a third-generation luchador


Well... in Mexico mother's and father's surnames are used so Oropeza is not how he should be called... :wink2:


----------



## USAUSA1

Rey is next,then Rush. This is why Atlantis mask should always be protected. I hope Dragon Lee is not pick up by Njpw.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

USAUSA1 said:


> Rey is next,then Rush. This is why Atlantis mask should always be protected. I hope Dragon Lee is not pick up by Njpw.


Without a doubt. Do you think the people will ever turn on Atlantis? If he wins another big apuestas would that be enough to set people off? Im thinking not. I do feel that NJ wants Dragon Lee and Guerrero Maya would fit in aswell. Word is the office loved Hechicero, and he is so versatile that he could do everything they can throw at him, and has the size to work heavyweights.

One thing I'd love to see would be Rush challenge Ishii for the NEVER title but that would never happen. 

When I first started watching luchas again late 2010, Sombra was the guy I knew would end up in wwe and Mascara Dorada was the guy that could be the next Rey Mysterio. WWE has got their hands on one of the best U30 wrestlers on the planet. Its a high risk/high reward scenario for him and I hope he makes it big.


----------



## Vårmakos

SOMBRA WITH THE DEVIL HIMSELF


----------



## amhlilhaus

Sombra will fail miserably in wwe. Theyre at the point that youre gonna have to have both ring and mic work to succeed. He doesnt speak english and guys who speak spanish said he wasnt a good promo.

I think rush will/would do better though, hes a natural asshole and that crosses any language barriers.

And fuck wwe


----------



## Corey

Damnnnnn. Sombra pictured with Hunter and Austin Aries pictured outside of Full Sail. Big day for NXT (maybe...?).


----------



## Stetho

amhlilhaus said:


> Sombra will fail miserably in wwe. Theyre at the point that youre gonna have to have both ring and mic work to succeed. He doesnt speak english and guys who speak spanish said he wasnt a good promo.
> 
> I think rush will/would do better though, hes a natural asshole and that crosses any language barriers.
> 
> And fuck wwe


Nay. La Sombra is super charismatic since he lost his mask. His facial expressions, his manners are completely in phase with the US product. And he's not as crazy as Mistico. 
Imo he's perfect for the WWE if they let him be.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Tonight @8:30 CDT Do not plan to make a night out of it. It may not be available to stream outside of Mexico. 
http://www.clarosports.com/en-vivo02/ or http://www.clarosports.com/en-vivo/

It is questionable how much of a draw Rey is right now, or lucha in general. His tour drew very poorly. Less than 1000, but it could be because of it occuring on a weekday and people still working. Still a show with an abundance of names could not draw more than other shows happening the same night is not a good indication.


----------



## USAUSA1

It's multiple factors but extremely high ticket prices for a Thursday night show in Mexico is not a good idea. This whole tour was not properly book and it hurt luchaunderground tapings to a degree.


----------



## Stetho

https://twitter.com/AAALucha/status/668196093390401536

Teasing much ?
AAA is trying a lot this year but almost everything (except LU) has failed so far.


----------



## USAUSA1

No one posted a picture of Dorian having a meeting in MSG?


----------



## USAUSA1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/668362765648531457


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

11/22 Black Terry vs Virus - Wow just wow, what a match. These 2 maestros go hold counterhold in an incredible match. Terry is one of the remaining maestros from another era. He has the knowledge and the wit to create his own ques. Virus gets to let it all out with such a great worker to bounce counters off. The match is sadly missing a few minutes. I hope we can get a full version of it. A more competent referee would have been the extra touch that would have made this flawless. If only this happened with a Black Terry at the peak of his career. One of my top 3 matches for lucha this year. 

If we get the missing footage, no doubt it could be a MOTY.


----------



## Rah

Like I said on Twitter, this was the best maestro match since Virus/Panther in 2013. Might even be better. I don't think we lose much time (I guessed a minute) but it didn't bother me. Terry sells his legs so, so well. Yeaaaah, lucha matwork has no psychology. Please. Look at these pros and get back to me. 

Can you imagine the type of great matches we could have had if Cara Lucha etc were running back in 2009? Terribles Cerebros at the peak of their careers and Virus just running through all of them. Maybe even with baby Multifacetico at his side.


----------



## ArnDaddy

What is going on at AAA? They have cancelled the PPV in a few weeks and currently have no tapings planned.


----------



## USAUSA1

Who knows? But they need to regroup. They've been double and sometimes triple booking talent. The people in charge is split on directions. It would be the perfect time to regroup.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Poor AAA, this has been a bad year for them, according to some posts in Facebook, this happened because of local promoters issues who didn't get the right place to do GdT.


----------



## USAUSA1

I knew something was wrong because didn't they move dates from the 5th to the 4th?


----------



## MR-Bolainas

From what i can remember, it was always on December 4th, what changed was the place, first was Expo Tampico, then Feria Tampico and finally Estacionamiento de la Expo Tampico which it seems to be a place not suitable for these kind of events. also local promoters changed the gdt poster at least 3 times before the final lineup


----------



## BillThompson

I ♥ KEMONITO;54499770 said:


> 11/22 Black Terry vs Virus - Wow just wow, what a match. These 2 maestros go hold counterhold in an incredible match. Terry is one of the remaining maestros from another era. He has the knowledge and the wit to create his own ques. Virus gets to let it all out with such a great worker to bounce counters off. The match is sadly missing a few minutes. I hope we can get a full version of it. A more competent referee would have been the extra touch that would have made this flawless. If only this happened with a Black Terry at the peak of his career. One of my top 3 matches for lucha this year.
> 
> If we get the missing footage, no doubt it could be a MOTY.


Black Terry Jr. has the full version available to order.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I am aware Black Terry Jr has a lot of things.

You will see several people recording the match on their phone, or on handhelds. If those people had a fast internet connection, no doubt we would get everything on youtube. I know that handhelds of some shows are sold outside arena mexico and if you are there, you can probably find out how to get more. 

AAA's ppv fiascos continue. That change in venue does certainly devalue the calibre of event. Even if the event falls short of being as good as a tv taping. They must want all their equiptment set up right for when Rey wins so they have footage to use for the next 100 years. Hard to accomplish in a parking lot.


----------



## USAUSA1




----------



## MR-Bolainas

Great Tope by Aerostar till 4th row!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/670814831893594112


----------



## USAUSA1

Tonight will be bitter sweet. Kamaitachi vs. Dragon Lee in possibly Kamaitachi last match in CMLL. Definitely trying to watch the LIVE feed.

Aerostar should get the big push not Fenix.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Latest AAA Sin Limite from Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua Parte 1





* Centinela, Mr.Alfa, Pagano vs Aereo, Dragon, Latino
** Garza Jr, Monster Clown, Muder Clown vs Dark Cuervo, Dark Scoria, El Zorro
*** Hijo del Pirata Morgan, Parka Negra, Taurus vs Blue Demon, Electroshock, La Parka


----------



## USAUSA1

They need to just give Oscar a huge salary.


----------



## USAUSA1

Charly Manson is free


----------



## USAUSA1

Dragon Lee is the best in the business.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Dragon Lee and Kamaitachi did it again. Their best match yet. A stunning display of punishment put on by both men. Incredible match you have to go out of your way to see, and I mean everybody. I liked it better than that Dragon Gate match. This gets ****3/4 from me becasue of the sour finish. If this was the final chapter of an amazing rivalry, then it is a well deserved one. My top luchas of the year are getting reshuffled every couple weeks now. 

USAUSA meant to say is Charly Manson is out of jail and is working the liga Elite show on Sunday. Now Cibernetico has his boys back with him. Electroshock is not too far behind.


----------



## USAUSA1

I hope njpw doesnt pick up Dragon Lee. We don't need another blow to lucha. Cmll should give Dragon Lee a hard push next year.

I see Parka jumping except I don't know what gimmick he can use.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

A bigger push is coming. I mean they are running ***** Casas vs Super Parka right now. That finish really shows what length CMLL will go to protect Dragon Lee. I think that NJ will consult CMLL and they will work on a shortlist. I've thought about it, and checked out ages, position, current storylines, married?, family?...I came up with Guerrero Maya jr., Boby Z, Dragon Lee, Cavernario, Titan.

CMLL will not want to relinquesh DL so he is out of the question unless they send him back in between tours. Which is another possibility.
Boby Z and Maya have a small fued, and they have invested a part of the year in them so they could be useful. That leaves Titan and Cavernario.

If they need a baby or a heel? is what it comes down to.


----------



## USAUSA1

http://www.clarosports.com/lucha-libre/cmll/detalle/dragon-lee-vs-kamaitachi-505742/

Amazing match, my second favorite of the series.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

It was my favorite because of the journey it took to get to it. 

I wonder why Charly Rockstar doesn't just change his name legal name to Charly Manson. If I had to bet who is going to land a gig at New Japan, it's Titan.


----------



## USAUSA1

Garza Jr very popular with the ladies, aaa might have something with him. Antonio Pena would have took advantage of that.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

LOL Black Warrior is now part of LOS INGOBERNABLES. Also Mephisto is working as a Hell Brother and Caristico has formed an alliance with Mistico. They are finally getting behind this Lucha Elite show and developing storylines. I hope they can make it work. The shows have potential and can offer more matchups that we haven't seen before.


----------



## USAUSA1

Its CMLL version of Lucha Underground lol.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Averno once again in a elite lineup and La Parka WTF?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/673752812082225153I hope they get rid of them and AAA Finally starts pushing other luchadores like Pentagon Jr, Drago, Taurus, Fénix, Garza Jr among others.


----------



## USAUSA1

Averno and Cibernetico owns the HellsBrother name. La Parka have no ownership over La Parka. I think its time for a new Parka anyway, the current one is basically wrestling on one arm.


----------



## Rah

Looks like lucha may just have a very merry Christmas this year, thanks to Lucha Memes. So far the 25th December card includes:

***** Navarro vs Virus
Black Terry & El Dandy vs Trauma I & Trauma II
Keira vs Marcela (c) for CMLL Women’s Championship
***** Casas vs Dr. Cerbero


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Rah said:


> Looks like lucha may just have a very merry Christmas this year, thanks to Lucha Memes. So far the 25th December card includes:
> 
> ***** Navarro vs Virus
> Black Terry & El Dandy vs Trauma I & Trauma II
> Keira vs Marcela (c) for CMLL Women’s Championship
> ***** Casas vs Dr. Cerbero



:banderas


----------



## USAUSA1

Aaa always been disorganized but Adr speaking out after the love they showed him just don't sit right with me. I always heard he was a prick.


----------



## USAUSA1

I think the UG vs. Thunder hair vs. mask match will draw a big number for CMLL despite Thunder being the worst wrestler on the planet. I want to see the match.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I disagree. Maybe 3500 tops will be in attendance. Everyone knows the result. Even if it offers little to no benefit to UG. Thunder winning is the right result, but I doubt they have plans for him past this match. What if he becomes another Marco Corleone without the mask?

Meh card for tonight 8:30 cdt, streaming live on http://www.clarosports.com/en-vivo02/










Minis will have the motn


----------



## shlegglete

What are peoples lucha matches of the year so far?


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Latest AAA Sin Limite TV Show available here! Ciudad Juarez Part 2:






- Dinastia vs Mini Abismo ***** for the AAA Mini Estrellas Championship
- Australian Suicide & Speedball vs Daga & Steve Pain
- Rey Misterio Jr, Psycho Clown, Chris Masters vs Psicosis, Averno, Chessman


----------



## USAUSA1

That card look good


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

shlegglete said:


> What are peoples lucha matches of the year so far?


2/8 Hijo del Perro Aguayo v Myzteziz
8/16 Virus vs Dr Cerebro
9/16 Cavernario vs Triton
9/18 Sombra vs Atlantis
7/28 Angel de Oro vs Polvora
1/1 Flamita & Hijo de Fishman & Skyman vs Fénix & Pentagón jr & Hijo del Fantasma
8/28 Wagner/Sombra/Rush vs Atlantis/LA Park/Volador
8/30 dragon lee vs kamaitachi
3/18 mil v fenix
7/28 dragon lee vs kamaitachi
12/4 dragon lee vs kamaitachi


----------



## Rah

Just to add in:

Black Terry vs Virus
Virus vs Guerrero Maya Jr
Rey Mysterio vs Myzteziz


Can confirm there's five minutes missing from the Terry/Virus match freely available.


----------



## shlegglete

Holy shit! Flamita & Hijo de Fishman & Skyman vs Fénix & Pentagón jr & Hijo del Fantasma was amazing! Such a hot crowd and Pentagón is super over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCEQfiaAskc&list=PLYGSgg45KPes4SEghQ7nUQNr_vFuTfhG3&index=11


----------



## Rah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/676099444912209921
:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

^ ^ ^ ^ ^


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

RIP Lizmark



Lizmark has passed away from a heart attack at the age of 66. 

One of the top legends of lucha libre that carried the tradition to heights never seen before. Inovating lucha libre and influencing future generations for years to come. This man is on the level of Santo, Mil Mascaras, Solitario, as one of the best to ever compete in Mexican Lucha libre. If I could compare him to somebody that would help you understand the magnitude of this legend, I would say Tiger Mask. The way he "inovated" Japanese style and influenced generations of people. One of the few historical figures that remained from the golden era of all wrestling has left us and will be missed. QEPD Lizmark.


----------



## Stetho

What an awful year.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Tonight @8:30 CDT : http://www.clarosports.com/en-vivo02/
Mistico I returns. The card looks really good. You probably do not want to miss it. I do expect some sort of Lizmark tribute. Cibernetico match should be fun.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Latest AAA Sin Limite TV Program available here:





A Special Program dedicated to Hijo del Perro Aguayo with his best matches in AAA. 
They also announced their next TV Taping is going to be on January 22, 2016.


----------



## shlegglete

What are some of Lizmarks best matches?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

shlegglete said:


> What are some of Lizmarks best matches?


His best stuff is pretty hard to come by. You can find great matches of his when he was in AAA though. He had a run of great title matches against La Parka. Basically making Parka into a main eventer. There's this match against Satanico who I think is a top 10 luchador ever. You can also find him taking part in trios from 84 on. Common theme in lucha, some stuff you are never going to find. Even stuff that happens now. 






Also this is probably the earliest you'll find from 83


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

There are some MOTYCs to be had


----------



## Rah

If it's a sellout show, +Lucha TV will upload the entire show to Youtube. Here's hoping.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Latest AAA Sin Limite available here: 






Second of AAA Sin Limite special shows, this one dedicated to Lucha Libre World Cup made in May, 2015


----------



## shlegglete

Rush smiled at me tonight. Best Christmas ever.


----------



## Stetho

http://www.playboy.com/articles/the...tm_content=em_img&utm_campaign=Email_12.29.15

Long read but damn


----------



## obby

I wasn't ready for that picture of him on the ropes


----------



## shlegglete

What are some of Atlantis' best matches apart from the last two anniversary main events and the Villano 3 mask match?


----------



## JIM2000

shlegglete said:


> What are some of Atlantis' best matches apart from the last two anniversary main events and the Villano 3 mask match?


Atlantis v Blue Panther, 8/9/1991, 12/5/1997. Both are must watch, but the first one is probably the best lucha title match of the 90s.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

shlegglete said:


> What are some of Atlantis' best matches apart from the last two anniversary main events and the Villano 3 mask match?


Atlantis is really one of the pet projects of Paco Alonso. Early on he would be the one to recieve the shine of most of the trios and tags he was in. Early 90's trios, he always looked good and got the rub from teaming with Lizmark constantly battling with the "Ola Blanca" / Wagners + Angel Blanco and foriegners untill having his rivalry with Emilio Charles/Satanico/Panther. Try to find some matches with those opponents.

As you probably have figured by now that singles matches are a rarity. Here is one against Perro jr., I think he ended up missing some time from a suplex in this one.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

CMLL Sin Piedad IPPV was held today
(missed the event) 

Winners in *BOLD*
1. Estrellita, La Vaquerita, Princesa Sugehit vs *Amapola, Dalys, Zeuxis*
2. Blue Panther Jr., Esfinge, The Panther vs *Cancerbero, Raziel, Virus*
3. Atlantis, Marco Corleone, Valiente vs *Dragón Rojo Jr., Pólvora, Thunder*
4. *Máximo Sexy* w/bad knee vs Kamaitachi [Cabellera vs Cabellera]
5. Carístico, Mistico, Rush vs *Cibernético, Último Guerrero, Volador Jr.*
6. ****** Casas* vs Super Parka [Cabellera vs Cabellera]

Predictable outcome for the hair matches. Early top moty in Kamaitachi vs Maximo. I missed the show and was not planning on buying it. Just wait for it to pop up on youtube. This is probably it for Kamaitachi in Arena Mexico. One of the best foreigners to have worked in Mexico ever as a regular. He has got loads of talent and is too fearless for his own good. Maximo has increased the value of his hair and is ready to work a top heavyweight culminating in a hair match. Terrible? Rush? Shocker? Marco?

***** Casas has dispatched Super Parka quite easily and now is moving onto a program with Volador jr. , who needs something to do, more than anything, and this fit the bill. Hair challenge was made postmatch, so it seems this will be the new direction for cmll of having quick, lightning fueds that lead up to apuestas on a big show every 6 weeks. Maybe its a way to spread the workload so everybody gets a turn or just an expierement. 

Highlight gifs via theCubsfan 


















Rush using sign language


----------



## Corey

The NJPW & CMLL Fantasticamania cards were announced. The full listing can be found here: http://puroresuspirit.net/2016/01/njpw-event-cards-for-january-february-2016/ but I'll highlight some of the key lucha matchups.

*NJPW Presents CMLL FANTASTICA MANIA 2016, 1/20/2016 [Wed] 18:30 @ EDION Arena Osaka, 2nd Stadium*
(7) Hiroshi Tanahashi & Dragon Lee vs. Kazuchika Okada & Virus

*NJPW Presents CMLL FANTASTICA MANIA 2016, 1/22/2016 [Fri] 18:30 @ Korakuen Hall in Tokyo*
(4) *CMLL National Welterweight Championship Match:* [Champion] Barbaro Cavernario vs. [Challenger] Titan
(5) *CMLL World Welterweight Championship Match:* [Champion] BUSHI vs. [Challenger] Mascara Dorada
(6) Ryusuke Taguchi, Hiroshi Tanahashi & Dragon Lee vs. Shinsuke Nakamura, Kazuchika Okada & Virus
(7) Volador Jr. & Mistico vs. Mephisto & Ultimo Guerrero

*NJPW Presents CMLL FANTASTICA MANIA 2016, 1/23/2016 [Sat] 18:30 @ Korakuen Hall in Tokyo*
(6) *CMLL World Lightweight Championship Match:* [Champion] Dragon Lee vs. [Challenger] Virus
(7) *Black Cat Memorial Match:* Hiroshi Tanahashi, Volador Jr. & Mistico vs. Kazuchika Okada, Mephisto & Ultimo Guerrero

*NJPW Presents CMLL FANTASTICA MANIA 2016, 1/24/2016 [Sun] 18:30 @ Korakuen Hall in Tokyo*
(3) *LUCHA DE MAESTROS:* Jushin Thunder Liger vs. Virus
(5) Juice Robinson, Hiroshi Tanahashi & Dragon Lee vs. Shinsuke Nakamura, Kazuchika Okada & Barbaro Cavernario
(6) Mistico vs. Ultimo Guerrero
(7) *NWA World Historic Welterweight Championship Match:* [Champion] Volador Jr. vs. [Challenger] Mephisto


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Can't wait to see Virus and Okada stretch Tanahashi with a 2 on 1 llave. Also the team of Shinsuke Nakamura & Barbaro Cavernario has got me giddy.


----------



## Rah

If we don't get a Liger highlight reel exhibition, Jushin/Virus could be match of the tour.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Lucha Libre AAA Announced Guerra de Titanes 2016 Lineup!









1. Pimpinela Escarlata, Niño Hamburguesa, Dinastia VS Mamba, El Apache, Mini Charly Manson
2. Faby Apache, Goya Kong, Maravilla VS Taya, Sexy Star, Lady Shani (Women's Lumberjack Match)
3. Jack Evans, Australian Suicide, ? VS Daga, La Parka Negra, Superfly 
4. AeroStar, Fénix VS Villano IV, Mascara Año 2000 Jr VS Averno, Chessman [Tag Team #1 Contenders Match]
5. La Parka, Electroshock, Garza Jr vs El Zorro, Dark Cuervo, Dark Scoria VS Hijo del Fantasma, Hijo del Pirata Morgan, Taurus [Vacant AAA Trios Championship Match]
6. Psycho Clown, Dr Wagner Jr vs El Mesias, Texano Jr [Winner Tag Team will face at Rey de Reyes for the Megacampeonato AAA]


----------



## Stetho

Wtf ? It's even worst than the previous one. No Rey, no Mundo, no Single Match, and bullshit teams.


----------



## USAUSA1

Aaa have an announcement on the way that will affect the wrestling landscape and probably not a good sign for luchaunderground future.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

1. Pimpinela Escarlata, Niño Hamburguesa, Dinastia VS *Mamba, El Apache, Mini Charly Manson*
2. Faby Apache, Goya Kong, Maravilla VS *Taya, Sexy Star, Lady Shani (Women's Lumberjack Match)*
3. *Jack Evans, Australian Suicide, ?* VS Daga, La Parka Negra, Superfly 
4. *AeroStar, Fénix *VS Villano IV, Mascara Año 2000 Jr VS Averno, Chessman [Tag Team #1 Contenders Match]
5. La Parka, Electroshock, Garza Jr vs El Zorro, Dark Cuervo, Dark Scoria VS *Hijo del Fantasma, Hijo del Pirata Morgan, Taurus* [Vacant AAA Trios Championship Match]
6. *Psycho Clown, Dr Wagner Jr *vs El Mesias, Texano Jr [Winner Tag Team will face at Rey de Reyes for the Megacampeonato AAA]

Psycho Clown vs Dr. Wagner Jr. sounds far more interesting. Would hope that the Doctor put over the Clown.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

USAUSA1 said:


> Aaa have an announcement on the way that will affect the wrestling landscape and probably not a good sign for luchaunderground future.


Come on brother this is too cryptic. I have noticed the Roldans have been extremely supportive and proud of LU as if it were their show. If its what I think you are hinting then I am highly suspect of it being a good idea. TNA level failiure.

Yes Guerra de Titanes looks like a filler show to set up more set up, for Triplemania. AAA continues to be a let down.


----------



## Vårmakos

Stetho said:


> Wtf ? It's even worst than the previous one. No Rey, no Mundo, no Single Match, and bullshit teams.


That's about 90% of every lucha card ever.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

My picks for GdT 2016

1. *Pimpinela Escarlata, Niño Hamburguesa, Dinastia *VS Mamba, El Apache, Mini Charly Manson
2. Faby Apache, Goya Kong, Maravilla VS *Taya, Sexy Star, Lady Shani *(Women's Lumberjack Match)
3. *Jack Evans, Australian Suicide, ? *VS Daga, La Parka Negra, Superfly 
4. *AeroStar, Fénix *VS Villano IV, Mascara Año 2000 Jr VS Averno, Chessman [Tag Team #1 Contenders Match]
5. La Parka, Electroshock, Garza Jr vs El Zorro, Dark Cuervo, Dark Scoria VS *Hijo del Fantasma, Hijo del Pirata Morgan, Taurus* [Vacant AAA Trios Championship Match]
6. Psycho Clown, Dr Wagner Jr vs El Mesias, Texano Jr [Winner Tag Team will face at Rey de Reyes for the Megacampeonato AAA] 

Hope the Surprise Wrestler is Fireball (Flamita) or some foreign wrestler.
Trios Championship could also be won by Zorro and La Secta so they have something to do.
If Psycho Clown team wins and eventually he wins at Rey de Reyes, i hope they can bring L.A Park to cost Dr Wagner jr match and set up a hair vs mask match at Triplemania (if ever happens)

i think this is a better card to the previous one https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUZiPI1UkAAYg7l.jpg, no Mundo or rey but at least more title matches and more interesting storylines than other promotions in Mexico IMO


----------



## xsw1

It's better since it has 3 former Mega Champions and a guy who chased the belt for 2 years instead of having Mundo and Rey Jr out of nowhere claiming it. I'm guessing Dr turns on Psycho and the title match is Mesias vs Texano Jr as Rey de Reyes semifinal with Mundo and Misterio involved in the Rey de Reyes final main event. 

And Wagner vs Clown just below them for the Latin American title.


----------



## USAUSA1

I ♥ KEMONITO;55809281 said:


> Come on brother this is too cryptic. I have noticed the Roldans have been extremely supportive and proud of LU as if it were their show. If its what I think you are hinting then I am highly suspect of it being a good idea. TNA level failiure.
> 
> Yes Guerra de Titanes looks like a filler show to set up more set up, for Triplemania. AAA continues to be a let down.


They support and love luchaunderground but AAA is their heart and money.

Psycho Clown should win the belt because he is over, young, talented, has a marketable gimmick and can play both sides. However, I have a feeling Mesias winning because he is the most recognizable. I wish he could bring Mil Muertes to aaa because I believe he would be the hottest thing in Mexico.


----------



## Stetho

Vårmakos said:


> That's about 90% of every lucha card ever.


No shit ?
They were supposed to face each other to get the belt. And now they just disappear with no explanations ?



MR-Bolainas said:


> i think this is a better card to the previous one https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUZiPI1UkAAYg7l.jpg, no Mundo or rey but at least more title matches and more interesting storylines than other promotions in Mexico IMO


Where are the storylines you are talking about ? 
The Main Event isn't the result of any story, still no one on one for Suicide and Daga, Fantasma teaming with Taurus and Hijo del Pirata makes no sense, same for almost every other teams. 

I know they had issues with this show but with the delay I was expecting way more than this filler show.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Stetho said:


> Where are the storylines you are talking about ?
> The Main Event isn't the result of any story, still no one on one for Suicide and Daga, Fantasma teaming with Taurus and Hijo del Pirata makes no sense, same for almost every other teams.
> 
> I know they had issues with this show but with the delay I was expecting way more than this filler show.


At least they are addressing the missing points, they will have a couple to fight for the megacampeonato, they will have new trios championship (Vacated), they will have 1# contenders for the tag team championship.
Daga vs Australian Suicide Hair vs mask, i think (if they don't do it before) it will be left for triplemania, but at least they are facing in trios match
There always been random teams in these kind of events and also one of their problems is they don't follow storylines, probably who knows due to Marisela, Joaquin, Dorian or Konnan, don't know who's the head booking there


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Maximo vs Kamaitachi for the hairs 1/1/16 pt 1 2 3 4 on youtube from same uploader
Currently in first place for MOTY in 2016. Maximo selling his leg here was near perfect. Kamaitachi takes advantage of Maximo's injured leg and gets a little too confident. CMLL comissioner Rambo was there ringside checking in with Maximo to decide whether match should continue or not. Brilliant leg sell by Maximo for nearly the entire match. Lets you become completely invested in his struggle. 

One of the pitfalls for the match is the terribly uncoordinated referee. Who plays a vital role and is simply incapable of fullfilling it. The refs have always been involved in these big apuestas matches and it is somewhat part of the lucha libre legacy/culture. A younger ref would have been better for this. Also the second could have teased throwing in the towel for a much more invested crowd response. Really is currently the match to beat right now.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

xsw1 said:


> And Wagner vs Clown just below them for the Latin American title.


Hm, you are probably right in that respect. Forgot Clown has the LA Title. Dr Wagner vs Clown I would probably enjoy more than the main event though.


----------



## ZEROVampire

*CMLL Sin Piedad 2016 (1/1)*

La Amapola, Dalys & Zeuxis vs Estrellita, La Vaquerita & Princesa Sugeith **
Cabellera vs Cabellera: Máximo Sexy vs Kamaitachi ***1/2
Mìstico, Caristico & Rush vs Último Guerrero, Volador Jr. & Cibernético **1/2
Cabellera vs Cabellera: ***** Casas vs Super Parka **1/4


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

http://www.clarosports.com/en-vivo/ 8:30 CDT
Maybe we'll get a date on the UG vs Thunder match today. Nothing really outstanding on this card. Guys will try not to get hurt before their Japan tour.


----------



## Rah

I thought CMLL dumped Thunder?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Rah said:


> I thought CMLL dumped Thunder?


Situation is a mess because Thunder is alledgedly in a relationship with a relative of Paco Alonso to top everything off. Thunder left for a short holiday without permission from the office during the build up for the match. He returned to do a sort of a run in on UG. The match was called off for whatever reason. Most people think its because Thunder is not good enough to headline a show and if UG is in an apuestas it has to be. The mask cage match ended up being the headline match. Maybe they think they can get some buys out of it, is my only guess.

Really that mask is the only thing keeping him there. If he loses it, he's pretty much done. But I believe that women will take to him once he drops it. They did confirm it will be happening soon. (Mexican Time)


----------



## USAUSA1

I still think it's a huge money match for cmll. They will surprise a lot of people if they do a big gate.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Latest AAA TV Show available here!

AAA Worldwide from Arena Neza Part 1




* Dinastia, Venum vs Mini Abismo *****, Mini Psycho Clown
* Daga, Pentagon Jr & Joe Lider vs Angelico, Jack Evans & Australian Suicide
* El Zorro, Dark Cuervo, Dark Scoria vs Monster Clown, Murder Clown & La Parka


----------



## USAUSA1

Caristico vs Rush tonight


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Rush vs Caristico was very good-great, even with the impromptu end of the second fall. Honestly didn't think Rush was counting on it happening but that's life. Rush makes it work with anyone and Caristico many kgs lighter is better than most of Rush's opponents lately. Lots of dives and brutal brawling really makes you want to see these two carry on and build toward an apuestas match. Post match segment is must see stuff. It will have you howling. ****


----------



## Greatsthegreats




----------



## USAUSA1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/688950862371131393
Smh, and guys actually jump to this promotion.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

CMLL has announced that they will transmit the Tuesday show live on their website. Tonight @7:30 http://cmll.com/?page_id=10838


----------



## Rah

EHD Diablo has certainly lost a couple steps in his old age, but the Dr Cerebro/Diablo Jr pairing was so damn good it doesn't even matter. Stereotypical tercera breakdown of course leads to EHD Diablo vs Terry, but Terry gives no shits for the useless, old man's crowd posturing and pretty much dents his skull in with a headbutt. Everything else goes to pieces, after that.

This isn't the great match promised by both its contenders and the money it garnered, but it's definitely worthwhile sitting through it for the Diablo Jr/Cerebro matwork and the hope of a bloody war between Diablo/Imposible and Terry/Cerebro.


----------



## Corey

Mascara Dorada beat BUSHI to win the CMLL World Welterweight Title today at Fantasticamania.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Mascara Dorada beat BUSHI to win the CMLL World Welterweight Title today at Fantasticamania.


That was a good cmll main event style match. If you can watch the whole show. The boys really gave it a good effort and all the matches were good and offered something diffrent. There is a storyline being planned for a possible apuestas between Naito and Atlantis. How about that for the anniversary? 

Cavernario tore the roof off the place as expected with his match against Titan. The crowd was up for anything and it improved the show greatly. Watch this show. I saw it live and do not regret it.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Latest AAA TV Show Here:

AAA Worldwide - Arena Neza Parte 2 






-Fireball (Flamita), Neza Kid vs El Apache & Soul Rocker
-La Hiedra, Lady Shani vs Faby Apache & Goya Kong
-Averno, Chessman, Brian Cage vs Blue Demon Jr, Psycho Clown & Fenix 

Glad Fireball (Flamita) got a good win here and Soul Rocker appears once again on TV. Lady Shani and La Hiedra, what a beautiful team. Cage wearing a Trump shirt. Fénix also showing his great wrestling


----------



## Corey

What the hell is actually happening with AAA these days? I feel like I haven't heard anything from them in months. Are they in shambles since Mistico & Del Rio left? Are they supposed to crown a new champion sometime soon?


----------



## Flair Shot

Jack Evans 187 said:


> What the hell is actually happening with AAA these days? I feel like I haven't heard anything from them in months. Are they in shambles since Mistico & Del Rio left? Are they supposed to crown a new champion sometime soon?


Just follow them on Youtube, it's not that hard to keep up with.

Anyway, tonight they have a big show Guerra de Titanes(was supposed to have happened in December but for some reason got moved to today) that should provide a better perspective on the future of the Mega Championship, Trios titles and the tag team titles. 

And one could say that if Taya gets pinned tonight that we will know her next challenger as well.


----------



## USAUSA1

Konnan mad because aaa didn't book any foreigners. I guess the Roldans got tired of wasting money on Mike Bailey,Chris Masters,etc.

Hopefully they build the company around the young guys like they were doing pre Del Rio. Things are getting back to normal.


----------



## USAUSA1

Texano vs Mesias for the aaa mega title at Rey de Reyes. Safe choice for aaa. Both have luchaunderground contracts, not going anywhere. Texano was a good champion actually pre Del Rio.


----------



## Stetho

Meh... I'd say "boring" choice. I'm not really hyped.


----------



## xsw1

I doubt Mesias vs Texano Jr will be the main event. They'll either have Wagner vs Psycho in singles match, or they'll be in the Rey de Reyes final, maybe with Rey Jr and Morrison in there - Clown should win.

Who wins the championship... either one is fine. Psycho Clown doesn't need the belt, it is not going to make him more over, I wonder if Garza Jr is committed with AAA, he's got a career in Monterrey TV, but that's a guy who could get a boost from chasing the title for a few months, while Clown is fed some guys for apuesta matches. Since the dollar is too expensive these days, and foreigners don't mean a rat ass for attendance, if they bring someone they should do so to mask them and get a quick feud with Psycho, just like Mesias arrived back in the day (and he wasn't the first)

The downers were that Averno and Chessman won tag titles, and Zorro and Secta the trios championships, so the younger dudes were left out for now. 

:surprise:


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Guerra de Titanes lived up to my expectations of being a show to set up rey de reyes and that will set up Triplemania. 

They are going to rebuild Texano after all. Thats good news. Bummed the made for eachother tag team of Fenix and Aerostar are not the tag champs. They are likely planned to be crucial for the rey de reyes matches so makes sense. I like less foreigners being the focal point. Maybe aaa can actually finish what they start.






Arena Mexico show was pretty meh. The Thunder apuestas is gaining momentumn and will likely peak at the Homenaje a dos leyendas show in March. 

Fantasticamania was another good show but not as good as yesterday's. The young lion matches have been really good. Hechicero is getting the chance to get over and being featured in the matches he is in. The occidente tag belts were defended in a forgetable but solid tag match vs Zavala and Okumura. 

Nakamura and Cavernario entrance is must see. match was good too. Then in utter dissapointment Virus vs Dragon Lee only got 10 minutes. It was good but it felt like it could have been a lot better. Ended abruptly. The crowd wanted more. Virus has looked nervous at these shows. He did the awesome ringpost arm drag spot. 










The trios featuring the New Japan aces have been surprisingly good. Better than one would expect but not great either. Probably can attribute it to Okada understanding spanish. Mistico has gotten over in Japan and mostly due to the way these matches have been designed. 

There was a big surprise on this show


----------



## Vårmakos

DOES FLAMITA HAVE A DEATH WISH


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Good show, not great but at least interesting

*Dinastía, Niño Hamburguesa and Pimpinela Escarlata defeated Gran Apache, Mamba and Mini Charly Manson (Relevos Tríos de Locura match)
-Classic AAA Opening Match. Niño Hamburguesa returned to AAA events and TV

*Lady Shani, Keira and Taya defeated Faby Apache, Goya Kong and Maravilla (Lumberjack Strap match)
-Good that Lady Shani and the rudas won here, and Maravilla and Keira once again on AAA TV

*Fireball, Australian Suicide and Jack Evans defeated Daga, Parka Negra and Súper Fly (Six-man "Lucha Libre rules" tag team match)




-Great spot by Fireball (Flamita). it seems it was the best match of the night and they continue with Daga vs Australian Suicide so it will happen this year probably.

*Los Hell Brothers (Averno and Chessman) defeated Aerostar and Fénix and Máscara Año 2000 Jr. and Villano IV (Three-way elimination match for the vacant AAA World Tag Team Championship)
- Aerostar and Fénix should have won but at least they were put in the Tag team title match

*Dark Cuervo, Dark Scoria and El Zorro defeated Electroshock, Garza Jr. and La Parka and El Hijo de Pirata Morgan, Hijo del Fantasma and Taurus (Six-man Lucha Libre rules tag team match for the vacant AAA World Trios Championship)
- I really thought they were going to put La Parka and his team as champions, glad that didn't happen

*El Mesías and El Texano Jr. defeated Dr. Wagner Jr. and Psycho Clown
- It seems they are going further with Wagner and clown also really thought they were going to win but at least texano and mesias can do a good match


----------



## Stetho

Just watched Fantasticamania from 22.01, and actually it was really entertaining. Los Ingobernables de Japon makes much more sense in this kind of show and the comedy parts were on point. Still don't get why Volador Jr started the main event with his mask tho.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Dragon Lee (c) vs Kamaitachi 1.24.16 Fantasticamania *****



Spoiler: Match recap



Kamaitachi came prepared for this match and brought out a special technique that he has not used previously to catch Dragon Lee off guard. It was with the arm trap dragon screw. Kamaitachi went on to focus early on the right knee of Dragon Lee in attempt to slow him down. Dragon Lee refused to let the weak link exposed by kamaitachi show and mustered up the bravado to unleash a high impact no fear attack that began to put the battle in his favor. The legwork did slow him down from his usual pace for this moment but as you watch not only can you see the adrenaline build up in each competitor but you begin to feel it aswell. Kamaitachi took back the match after a slick reversal and trapping Dragon Lee where he wanted. Once in charge he again went back to his strategy and catches dl in a state of overconfidence. Dragon Lee would not back down. He kept fighting back at full speed untill the familiarlarity between them would plays it's role. Momentumn would hot potato for a short while but ultimately fall in favor of dl here. Where he would dish out his most impactfull offense. Kamaitachi took everything and still kicked out. Dragon Lee was caught in a moment of vulneralbility and the tables were turned again. Kamaitachi hits his rolling german suplex finish and nearly gets the win. In a last ditch effort Dragon Lee pulls the ace from his sleeve and nails a spanish fly out of nowhere. Kamaitachi kicks out at 2. The adrenaline is flowing and Dragon Lee can taste victory. He goes to set up a phoenix plex only to countered by Kamaitachi into a flipping piledriver.




This edition of the latest Kamaitachi vs DL felt like it had more drama than previous versions but that may have been attributed to the setting. This was another war and exactly what you would expect out of these two. They did not go too insider when it came to the reversals like you would see in new japan matches where you had to have seen the previous bouts to understand why something did or didn't work and still get their struggle. Both guys pulled out every big move they had in attempt to win and risking their own well-being to do so. They invite you to feel the frustration as they build toward the end and give you what you didn't know you wanted...If you want to get even more out of it, you should watch the previous matches between them if you haven't. 

Watch Arena Puebla shows at your own risk. They tend to be average to below average quality shows. Today looks bad on paper. So I won't be watching.


----------



## Corey

100% echo the thoughts on Dragon Lee/Kamaitachi from Fantasticamania. Incredible match and definitely stole the whole tour up to this point. Makes me even more excited to watch the double main event of Mistico/Guerrero and Volador/Mephisto, although I'm sure expectations need to be tempered with those. 

One question though, what does it say on the tassels of Dragon Lee's mask? I swear I kept reading Kalisto? Does that mean anything? Am I wrong?


----------



## Rah

Red tassle: Tala (birth city)
Silver tassle: Jalisco (birth State)


----------



## USAUSA1

Who are the better brothers tandem? Rush/Dragon Lee or Fenix/Pentagon Jr.


----------



## Corey

Ah, JALISCO. That's close enough to Kalisto to not make me look crazy. :lol



USAUSA1 said:


> Who are the better brothers tandem? Rush/Dragon Lee or Fenix/Pentagon Jr.


:shocked: Good lord those are some good genes! I haven't seen enough of Rush & Dragon Lee to comment, but they've definitely got the better family tree for looks.


----------



## kimino

Jack Evans 187 said:


> 100% echo the thoughts on Dragon Lee/Kamaitachi from Fantasticamania. Incredible match and definitely stole the whole tour up to this point. Makes me even more excited to watch the double main event of Mistico/Guerrero and Volador/Mephisto, although I'm sure expectations need to be tempered with those.
> 
> One question though, what does it say on the tassels of Dragon Lee's mask? I swear I kept reading Kalisto? Does that mean anything? Am I wrong?


It says "Jalisco" its the state he was born.



USAUSA1 said:


> Who are the better brothers tandem? Rush/Dragon Lee or Fenix/Pentagon Jr.


This is a really really difficult question.

Character: 1.-Pentagon Jr 2.-Rush 3.-Dragon Lee/Fenix
Charisma 1.-Rush/Pentagon Jr 2.-Dragon Lee 3.-Fenix
Atleticism 1.-Dragon Lee 2.-Fenix 3.-Rush 4.-Pentagon
Most amazing in ring 1.-Dragon Lee 2.- Fenix 3.-Pentagon 4.-Rush
Favorite of mine 1.-Pentagon 2.-Rush/Dragon Lee 3.- Fenix

Cant decide its a question i will never known until i see what could Rush and Dragon Lee can do in a LU envoirement

Overall Pentagon Jr is the best but Dragon Lee is 20 years old and i get the vibes of him being one of the best in the future, he looked calm and gave a flawless performance against Kamaitachi in Japan, well done for someone that young (not failing like "la mascara")


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

USAUSA1 said:


> Who are the better brothers tandem? Rush/Dragon Lee or Fenix/Pentagon Jr.


I thought Dragon Lee would turn out better than Rush. So far it is looking like it could end up happening that way. Rush was nowhere near as good as him at 20. I am taking the Gonzalez bros. Fenix is great but I feel like you can find a dozen other guys who can do the exact same thing. Pentagon for me gets into trading llaves when he should be brawling. I think he's lost that edge that got him over and has been reliant on big chops and kicks.

The thing they got going for them is the promotion backing them up entirely. Unlike aaa that stated the Jack vs Pentagon and pulled the plug on it.


----------



## Stetho

Dragon Lee is good but I think Rush has some X factor.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

USAUSA1 said:


> Who are the better brothers tandem? Rush/Dragon Lee or Fenix/Pentagon Jr.


----------



## Corey

Does anyone have a link for the Dragon Lee vs. Virus match from the 1/23 Fantasticamania show? It's the only match I'm worried about and I'm not trying to download the whole show and lower my XWT ratio for it.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Next AAA Worldwide TV Taping card has been announced, it will be on February 06, 2016 in Auditorio Benito Juarez, Cuautitlan










Great looking Card and they start with Rey de Reyes eliminations, More Fireball, Fenix Drago and Aerostar in a Trios team, 1# Contender Match for the Mixed Tag Team title, Pentagon Jr and Joe vs tag team champions and more Minis and probably wagner being the first winner of the group


----------



## Stetho

This looks good indeed !


----------



## Rah

I actually think that's a closer comparison than it appears on paper.

Both Pentagon and Rush don't wrestle a "straight" match, even if Pentagon is a bit more extreme in going about it, while Lee and Fenix are a varying hybrid style (or can work well at different aspects, when called to do so). Hell, they both have a middle brother nobody gives a shit about! 

There's this intangible charisma quality to Pentagon and Rush that help them connect to a crowd far beyond their ring work. I'd say Rush is far more consistent and coherent in laying out his matches, but Pentagon is definitely harmed by wrestling in an environment of "garbage brawl", Indy style that praises violence and spots over selling and match story. Rush has far and away the better catalog of great matches, but he doesn't have anything as impressively visual as Pentagon/Arez. Of course Rush/Casas is very similar in that the opponent isn't anywhere close to being on Rush/Pentagon level yet they're holding their own but comparing Arez to ***** Casas is foolish. One of them is the greatest luchadore to ever live, the other is some dispensable indy guy (not really but you get the point). The problem, though, is that Rush hasn't been as good as he has for as long. He's one of the best heels in wrestling, and one of the best wrestlers, full stop, but he's been actively awful for a lot of his career. I've not seen enough Pentagon to make a career vs career call but, if we're judging on 2016 Rush vs 2016 Pentagon, it goes pretty easily to Rush.

Dragon Lee and Fenix both wear their influences on their sleeves. So much so, I've often looked at Fenix as the Mexican TJ Perkins. His ability to work different styles is impressive, but he falls short of what TJ has mastered. Fenix has great ideas, and most likely ideas that are spawned from tapes he's watched, but he struggles to build to the moment effectively or sell its importance. That was my main criticism of the Lucha Underground matches that he was praised for. I think there's room to say the same for Dragon Lee, even if I don't personally see it. Lee is a fantastic high-flier, and his little touches in his selling around his adrenaline comebacks are great. There's a moment in the Fantasticamania match with Kamaitachi where he shrugs off the barrage in a corner, screams into his opponent's face only for that scream to slowly die as he collapses trying to muster energy to attack. He's 20 years old and doing things more wrestlers should be doing. I think this comparison is a little easier to decide.


Rush & Dragon Lee > Pentagon Jr & Fenix


----------



## Corey

It's amazing how much of a dropoff in quality occurred after the Dragon Lee/Kamaitachi match at Fantasticamania. I was beyond annoyed with the amount of pandering to the crowd in Ultimo/Mistico and the laziness in actual wrestling so I cut it off several minutes in. Then the same shit started happening during Volador/Mephisto. I don't wanna see you take a break from wrestling so you can both stand there and look to the crowd for approval. That match was just an exhibition of moves and Mephisto's shoulders weren't even down for the finish! POOP! No substance whatsoever.


----------



## kimino

love the team of virus and hechicero

http://rutube.ru/video/8d2b86bb09204321f848a91a8e29eb18/


----------



## USAUSA1

I was too busy watching Bellator last night but next Friday show looks great. Definitely must see


----------



## Corey

*CMLL World Lightweight Championship*
Dragon Lee (c) vs. Virus 
_NJPW/CMLL Fantasticamania 1/23/16_

For only going 7 minutes this was pretty tremendous. The fact that they only got 7 minutes kinda sucks, but they managed to make every sequence feel important and meaningful. Dragon Lee avoiding every submission attempt from Virus like it was the plague was a great touch and Virus scored some real close nearfalls. I'm really glad he kicked out of Lee's double stomp from the corner too because his looks really weak in comparison to Del Rio's. With 5 more minutes, this could've been another MOTYC from the weekend. **** 1/2*


----------



## LilOlMe

Just saw La Sombra & Volador Jr. vs. Rush & Mistico on 11/06/2015 for the first time. 

Match was so damn fun and creative. Basically, La Sombra and Rush are friends, so La Sombra keeps helping Rush out despite being on opposing teams. He will abuse Rush's partner and brother Mistico, so the courtesy doesn't extend to him, but he will go out of his way to make sure that Rush isn't the one taking the pin or getting _too_ much abuse.

This, of course, frustrates and exasperates Volador Jr., and it's interesting to see La Sombra give a half-hearted effort at times, and then go all in at other times. 

I love the way it built toward the climax, and the La Sombra/Rush dynamic was just great. Totally ended in a fitting way.

Makes me wonder why we've never seen matches like this. Could have especially worked with The Shield. Maybe we have and I just haven't seen it or don't remember it, but I found this quite entertaining. 

Rush has presence for days, and La Sombra has a cocky swagger.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Tonight's Puebla card. The last 3 matches could turn out good. Mascara Dorada's return and forms one hell of a team with Volador and Dragon Lee.

VOLADOR JR.®, MÁSCARA DORADA Y DRAGON LEE
vs
ÚLTIMO GUERRERO, ***** CASAS Y REY BUCANERO

RUSH®
vs
THUNDER

ÁNGEL DE ORO®, TITÁN Y TRITÓN
vs
MEPHISTO®, EPHESTO® Y LUCIFERNO

STIGMA, BLUE PANTHER JR. Y DELTA
vs
PIERROTH, EL SAGRADO® Y MISTERIOSO

MAGNUS Y METATRÓN
vs
TORO BILL JR. Y REY APOCALIPSIS

BLACK TIGER Y ASTURIANO
vs
ESPIRÍTU MALIGNO Y ARES​


----------



## amhlilhaus

I love rush, but for me pentagon and fenix are more entertaining.


----------



## NakNak

Rah said:


> I actually think that's a closer comparison than it appears on paper.
> 
> Both Pentagon and Rush don't wrestle a "straight" match, even if Pentagon is a bit more extreme in going about it, while Lee and Fenix are a varying hybrid style (or can work well at different aspects, when called to do so). Hell, they both have a middle brother nobody gives a shit about!
> 
> There's this intangible charisma quality to Pentagon and Rush that help them connect to a crowd far beyond their ring work. I'd say Rush is far more consistent and coherent in laying out his matches, but Pentagon is definitely harmed by wrestling in an environment of "garbage brawl", Indy style that praises violence and spots over selling and match story. Rush has far and away the better catalog of great matches, but he doesn't have anything as impressively visual as Pentagon/Arez. Of course Rush/Casas is very similar in that the opponent isn't anywhere close to being on Rush/Pentagon level yet they're holding their own but comparing Arez to ***** Casas is foolish. One of them is the greatest luchadore to ever live, the other is some dispensable indy guy (not really but you get the point). The problem, though, is that Rush hasn't been as good as he has for as long. He's one of the best heels in wrestling, and one of the best wrestlers, full stop, but he's been actively awful for a lot of his career. I've not seen enough Pentagon to make a career vs career call but, if we're judging on 2016 Rush vs 2016 Pentagon, it goes pretty easily to Rush.
> 
> Dragon Lee and Fenix both wear their influences on their sleeves. So much so, I've often looked at Fenix as the Mexican TJ Perkins. His ability to work different styles is impressive, but he falls short of what TJ has mastered. Fenix has great ideas, and most likely ideas that are spawned from tapes he's watched, but he struggles to build to the moment effectively or sell its importance. That was my main criticism of the Lucha Underground matches that he was praised for. I think there's room to say the same for Dragon Lee, even if I don't personally see it. Lee is a fantastic high-flier, and his little touches in his selling around his adrenaline comebacks are great. There's a moment in the Fantasticamania match with Kamaitachi where he shrugs off the barrage in a corner, screams into his opponent's face only for that scream to slowly die as he collapses trying to muster energy to attack. He's 20 years old and doing things more wrestlers should be doing. I think this comparison is a little easier to decide.
> 
> 
> Rush & Dragon Lee > Pentagon Jr & Fenix


What do you think are Rush's best matches? I haven't watched a lot of stuff of him.


----------



## Rah

Wrote a Rush primer a few months back, here.


----------



## USAUSA1

What do you think of Konnan not booking AAA? I used to hear complaints from hardcore lucha fans for years on how Konnan trying to turn AAA to ECW and always booking pointless foreigners. Now, "some" fans is siding with Konnan.

I liked Konnan booking but hated the whole lets bring every foreigner possible. Fans like foreigners but they need a reason to be there. Mike Bailey and Masters had no reason to be in AAA taking up space and money. I am willing to give the Roldans a chance. While they have their flaws in pushing talent like Parka,Electroshock and Zorro, I think their direction will be ok overall. I hope they push Pentagon Jr strong since he is the top guy in LU, I think Dorian will make that happen.


----------



## kimino

USAUSA1 said:


> What do you think of Konnan not booking AAA? I used to hear complaints from hardcore lucha fans for years on how Konnan trying to turn AAA to ECW and always booking pointless foreigners. Now, "some" fans is siding with Konnan.
> 
> I liked Konnan booking but hated the whole lets bring every foreigner possible. Fans like foreigners but they need a reason to be there. Mike Bailey and Masters had no reason to be in AAA taking up space and money. I am willing to give the Roldans a chance. While they have their flaws in pushing talent like Parka,Electroshock and Zorro, I think their direction will be ok overall. I hope they push Pentagon Jr strong since he is the top guy in LU, I think Dorian will make that happen.


Dorian is a smart guy and know that Pentagon has the potential to be AAA biggest name in Mexico and globally


----------



## Corey

Personally I would just like to see more singles matches in AAA. I know that tags are the main staple of lucha libre and they really only book singles for the big shows, but as an outsider who was primarily introduced to 70% of AAA's roster through Lucha Underground or other promotions, I don't really care to see all of my favorite guys from there in a bunch of 6-man tags for so many months at a time. I feel like some of the singles titles almost never get defended and they haven't taken advantage of some of the opportunities that were presented to them. Mysterio vs. Mundo particularly and others I can't really think of at the moment.

Again, that's probably not a fair or popular opinion, but it's my two cents on the matter.  CMLL runs far more singles mixed in with the tags and I can enjoy that more.


----------



## kimino

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Personally I would just like to see more singles matches in AAA. I know that tags are the main staple of lucha libre and they really only book singles for the big shows, but as an outsider who was primarily introduced to 70% of AAA's roster through Lucha Underground or other promotions, I don't really care to see all of my favorite guys from there in a bunch of 6-man tags for so many months at a time. I feel like some of the singles titles almost never get defended and they haven't taken advantage of some of the opportunities that were presented to them. Mysterio vs. Mundo particularly and others I can't really think of at the moment.
> 
> Again, that's probably not a fair or popular opinion, but it's my two cents on the matter.  CMLL runs far more singles mixed in with the tags and I can enjoy that more.


CMLL knows the right formula, for singles and trios or relevos australianos, they may be old school but they know their stuff


----------



## USAUSA1

Single matches can get old real fast. One of the benefits of doing trios is to make single matches feel special or at least it used to be.


----------



## xsw1

I wonder if Okumura claims to be the CMLL booker when he's in Japan... it is weird Konnan is now saying that because 1. He seems to be gone from Lucha Underground so he can be 100% commited to AAA 2. Cibernetico was 80% of Konnan opposition, with him gone it should have been much easier to work the cards. 

I wouldn't hold my breath for Pentagon Jr to be the guy AAA gets behind, at least for the near future. I'm guessing it is going to be again Psycho Clown and Texano Jr, which makes a lot of sense for AAA, in a way, Pentagon Jr is a victim of his success: Even though AAA probably wanted to tour the USA and that was what LU was about, they seem to have found a formula that may make them good money: booking their talent for international shows. 

Pentagon Jr will probably make AAA more money with these bookings (and add Aerostar, Fenix, Drago, Evans and Angelico and season 2 guys) than in the local market, so maybe we will see more TV tapings on weekdays while the AAA/LU crew works weekends on other countries. Psycho and Texano will keep being the workhorses for local shows. Konnan said he didn't understand why they took the titles from Jack and Angelico, but it was a smart move if AAA is thinking they'll be working aboard often.

The build up for Rey de Reyes looks good, let's see how it plays out.

OTOH, there was some talk about Lucha World Cup being held on early June and for it to be a bigger event running for 2 days. Considering Albertoand Mystziz are gone and Rey might not be back, sounds kinda risky to be expanding the event


----------



## BillThompson

kimino said:


> Dorian is a smart guy and know that Pentagon has the potential to be AAA biggest name in Mexico and globally


This couldn't be further from the truth. Everyone in the know about AAA waxes poetic all the time about how little that company sees in Pentagon Jr. They do not see what American audiences see and view him as nothing more than an opening or midcard act. One of the lone exceptions was Konnan, who now has even less influence in AAA.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I think AAA were suspicous of Konnan booking for his comeback tour combined with recklessly spending the company's money and rumors of even more talent leaving because of said booking. I fully expect them to push the same "stars" they have been behind 4-5 years ago and not Pentagon, Taurus,Hijo de Pirata Morgan, Flamita. Weird timing to change directions too with the AAA Worldwide project gaining momentumn. 

AND the rumored World Cup? this is a trainwreck waiting to happen.


----------



## Corey

A bull terrier match is a 3-way dog collar match, right? That sounds... strange.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Now with Konnan not Booking AAA, we will see how their cards are going to be, and which wrestlers are going to be pushed, i wonder if dorian will have more power now and how will translate into their cards and Rey de Reyes on March. Hope they can improve their booking at least they have more interesting wrestlers they just need to book them right and follow their storylines (Reading what have said Konnan, Jack Evans, Angelico among others, the problem it's Marisela more than Joaquin but who knows).

also Road to Rey de Reyes 

























Also Rey de Reyes it's going to be on March 11, 2016 in Tampico, Tamaulipas, MX (Hope this time they don't cancel it)

and finally it's also available Guerra de Titanes part 2 here:


----------



## Stetho

They really need stability, whoever is in charge, they can't continue to abort every storylines they launch.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

LOL AAA booked Hijo de Pirata who is also in the mixed tag contender match on the show with the mixed title match. All indicates Bengala and Faby are going over. Pentagon goes from fueding with Jack Evans to putting over Bengala. That sure screams star in the making.

Guerra de Titanes was not good outside the circus 8 person and the minis match. 
relevos atomicos mixtos ***
minis ***1/2
mega campeon relevos increibles **
trios 3 way *1/2
lumberjack womens *

What is the purpose of Parka Negra existing? Are they using it to train people that are meant for a rebrand?


----------



## MR-Bolainas

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/696504872280043520


----------



## Stetho

What I saw from GdT on youtube was cool. Not amazing but still.


----------



## Corey

Will these make video somehow? Idk anything about the promotion, but I'd love to see them next month.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Corey said:


> Will these make video somehow? Idk anything about the promotion, but I'd love to see them next month.


Its rare and when they do, usually never the entire match uncut. Usually highlight video get uploaded that night or next day. I think you may be able to buy the matches from Black Terry jr. which I don't approve of. Around $7 per match which is ridiculous enough to make me want to buy some and upload them for everybody to watch. 

Yes you will see people with handhelds recording the entire show and I think those are for the street vendors that sell bootlegs.


----------



## Corey

Well damn, that sucks. I'd have no problem spending $7 for the whole show, but I ain't doin that per match.


----------



## Rah

BTJr dropped his prices. $3.80-$4.80 depending on the match, and 50% off, rounded up, on bulk orders (I think it's over 5). I think you've got a decent likelihood of finding Lee/Horus via handheld, I'll keep my eyes open. I've given up on official uploads, after we got bullshitted out of that Lucha Memes Christmas show. Specifically arranged a BTJr order being told that show would be uploaded onto Youtube free of charge. One month later and still nothing.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Heard Sexy Star is a bitch backstage. Now I don't like her.

I still like Dr. Wagner though, even if his finishes are terrible.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

WesternFilmGuy said:


> Heard Sexy Star is a bitch backstage. Now I don't like her.
> 
> I still like Dr. Wagner though, even if his finishes are terrible.


She always was. Always given priority and always made to look better than she really is. AAA constantly take her shit and eat it. The same can be said for Wagner. But atleast Wagner is talented enough to get away with it.
@Rah anything you are dying to see from the Terry jr.?


----------



## USAUSA1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/697438460681068545


----------



## Stetho

Yeah !


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

According to the LU contract several talents are prohibited from appearing on the show right?


----------



## USAUSA1

I wouldn't think so since they were trying to bring luchaunderground to Mexico tv.


----------



## Rah

Cubsfan said:


> I guess AAA must have an exemption to allowing Lucha Underground contracted wrestlers on other TV shows.


.


----------



## Corey

So an English version of a AAA weekly show with no contracted LU talent would then feature... no one? :lol I feel like that's about 5-10 notable guys max.


----------



## Oiky

Corey said:


> So an English version of a AAA weekly show with no contracted LU talent would then feature... no one? :lol I feel like that's about 5-10 notable guys max.


i agree. wouldln't be half as good.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

They were on AAA TV but it doesn't air in the US, this would. I don't think AAA would dare take on a venture like this without the most over person in the market you are targeting: Pentagon jr. . . its wrestling. I know.


----------



## BillThompson

AAA needs to get their shit in Mexico sorted first. But, even then using Court Bauer as their American conduit is a ticket to failure. Everything he touches in wrestling fails, mainly because he's a dope who can't write about wrestling, promote wrestling, or finance wrestling in a professional manner.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Hope AAA can put a good english Program in the U.S, but i'll give my opinion when more details appear

Also Latest AAA Worldwide Episode from Cuautitlan Part 1

-Intro Daga/Pentagon Jr about Mixed Tag team belt, Dr Wagner Jr/Psycho Clown match
*Australian Suicide & Fireball (Flamita) vs La Parka Negra & Super Fly
*Daga & Taya vs Lady Shani & Hijo del Pirata Morgan vs Faby Apache & Bengala [1#Contenders Mixed Tag Team Championship]
-Noti AAA: Jesus Zuñiga talks about Daga (+Pentagon Jr, Taya), Rey de Reyes, El Mesias (+Texano Jr)
+GDT Trios Championship
*Blue Demon Jr vs Garza Jr vs Dr Wagner Jr vs Taurus [Group 1 Rey de Reyes Qualy]


----------



## Corey

CMLL Puebla is live on Youtube in less than 20 minutes (10 PM eastern). Might try and check out the main event later on.

Arkalis & París vs El Malayo & King Jaguar 
Asturiano, Robin, Soberano Jr. vs Artillero, Rey Apocalipsis, Toro Bill Jr. 
Estrellita, La Vaquerita, Silueta vs Amapola, Tiffany, Zeuxis 
Esfinge, Stigma, Stuka Jr. vs El Cuatrero, Okumura, Sansón 
La Máscara, Marco Corleone, Rush vs Rey Bucanero, Terrible, Vangellys 
Volador Jr. *©* vs ***** Casas *[NWA WELTER]*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTAI27Bkp04

EDIT: Volador/Casas was pretty decent. Unsure of how the ref could've decided that Volador was submitting in the first fall though when he wasn't even looking at him. Volador can't sell worth a damn either, but I pretty much already knew that. 3rd fall was exciting and Casas got a REALLY close near pin with the cradle, but I'm questioning why the ref counted faster for the actual finish than he did for everything else. Oh well.


----------



## Stetho

This week’s Wrestling Observer mentions all financial issues between Rey Mysterio and AAA and Mysterio and Lucha Underground have been resolved. They also say their information has Rey Mysterio signed for season 3, with options for two more season after that (unless the deal has been breached in some way – catching up on money takes care of the most obvious breach.)

http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/2016...felino-vs-super-crazy-set-liga-elite-returns/


----------



## Corey

Man, that is great news for both AAA and especially LU. Rey didn't need to go back to WWE when he can offer so much to these two companies. Also gives me a lot more personal interest in AAA.

------------

Has Caristico vs. La Mascara made it online anywhere? I coulda swore I had already seen it on Youtube (somewhat clipped I think) but now I can't find it. I'm guessing it likely wasn't filmed?


----------



## Corey

Tonight's card on Claro Sports. http://www.clarosports.com/en-vivo02/










Will be watching for matches 4 and 5.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Latest AAA Worldwide Episode from Cuautitlan Part 2!:

*Lanzeloth, Mini Psycho Clown, Mini Charly Manson vs Dinastia, Octagoncito, Mascarita Sagrada
*Aerostar, Drago, Fenix vs Dark Cuervo, Dark Scoria, Zorro
-Noti AAA: Fenix wants a Trios title match and also Pentagon Jr. Interview Part 1!
+Rey de Reyes Group 1 Qualy Repeat.
*Averno, Chessman vs Pentagon Jr., Joe Lider






Also They have a TV Taping today from Queretaro, and 2 qualys for Rey de Reyes, so we will know what they have planned for RdR and also Mixed Tag Team Championship match


----------



## Corey

The 3rd fall between Dorada & Mephisto tonight was spectacular. I was pretty annoyed that the first two went maybe a combined 3 minutes, but man they totally made up for it. Compelling back and forth action with a crazy highlight reel from Dorada. I love how well Mephisto played off of Dorada's instinct to ALWAYS go high risk by countering him to a sudden stop in momentum. The only problem was that I thought the finish was pretty questionable because Dorada no sold Devil's Wings and hit a move to win out of nowhere, but man I really loved that 3rd fall. *** 3/4

Big question though. Dorada went out and damn near killed himself with some of the dives, but why was Arena Mexico booing him? Do they resent him for leaving for a year or something? It was LOUD boos.

Be sure to check this out when it pops up online though.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/700900395170865153


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Okada taught him well. 

Current lucha libre matches are structured like that. They build up as they go longer to more and more dangerous, higher impact moves. No real emphasis on selling or storytelling as much as other styles. I thought this match was an incredible effort from both guys. I bought into the near falls. I think what throws people off are the 3 falls. If you think about you can find an extraordinary amount of psychology in lucha. At times it can look like the most contrived and choreographed style in the world but other times it can look so real and bring out emotions other styles cannot. 

The first 2 falls ended really quick. Through submissions. Think about MMA. How long do those fights go? A guy puts on an armbar and ends the fight in less than a minute. Guys tapping out so fast is a great display of psychology and in some ways protects the buisiness. The short falls really doesn't bother me as much as the lack of effort and intensity luchadores some times display or the layout of the match. 

Mephisto really went after Dorada using high impact power moves. Specifically targeting Dorada's back and causing head trauma. Dorada would fight back the only way he knew. With a rapid and daredevilish high flying. He punished Mephisto with headscissors off the apron, on the floor, off the ropes. This built up to a dive off the stage 15-20 ft. up. Dorada would not relent untill Mephisto would catch him with some higher impact moves in a way to combat that. They would go back and forth all over the place. From the stage to aisle between the seats and the announcer's desk. Eventually climaxing the match with a very near fall from a top rope Devils Wings. Dorada kicks out as an ultimate act of defiance and catches Mephisto in disarray, hoists him up and spikes him down with a Dorada Driver. ****1/2

Also Volador jr., Stuka jr, Dragon Lee vs ***** Casas, Kamaitachi, Gran Guerrero -- ****1/4

Watch those 2 matches and even watch Rush, La Mascara, Corleone vs Maximo, Atlantis, Valiente if you want to see an angle


----------



## Corey

I didn't mind how the first fall ended because that submission was really cool that Mephisto used and Dorada really didn't have any way of escaping it, but the 2nd one was pretty cheesy imo. Really quick tap and he didn't even attempt to get out of it when all he had to do was move one of his feet. I thought the crowd might have been booing that since it was so quick, but I guess it was because they don't like Dorada for some reason? Idk. Would've given it **** because I fucking LOVED that 3rd fall, but I was quite bothered by how Dorada shrugged off the Devil's Wings and hit the Dorada Driver while decisively holding up his hands and shouting the count. I thought there could've been a better and longer setup for that. Way too soon after that BIG nearfall. I thought Mepisto was gonna win, honestly. I was pretty hyped. 

I missed the middle 6-man but read that it was a massive sprint. Rush kicking Marco out of Ingobernables happened in the main event too I guess? Wasn't paying too close attention but the amount of people that are making and accepting apuestas challenges is getting hard to follow. Casas & Volador agreed to hair match I believe & Caristico & La Mascara agreed to a mask match as well. Or maybe someone else? Fuck if I know. :lol

Oh and Dorada is supposed to defend against Casas sometime in the next couple weeks too. Definitely gonna look out for that.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Corey said:


> I didn't mind how the first fall ended because that submission was really cool that Mephisto used and Dorada really didn't have any way of escaping it, but the 2nd one was pretty cheesy imo. Really quick tap and he didn't even attempt to get out of it when all he had to do was move one of his feet. I thought the crowd might have been booing that since it was so quick, but I guess it was because they don't like Dorada for some reason? Idk. Would've given it **** because I fucking LOVED that 3rd fall, but I was quite bothered by how Dorada shrugged off the Devil's Wings and hit the Dorada Driver while decisively holding up his hands and shouting the count. I thought there could've been a better and longer setup for that. Way too soon after that BIG nearfall. I thought Mepisto was gonna win, honestly. I was pretty hyped.


I don't know if maybe they have to be done by a certain time? They used to have time ques and would actually cut matches down to a certain time that you would be waiting months to see, just so they could fit their TV shows better. I think Dorada is really going to get the company behind him this year and try to forge him as the top tecnico and idol of the promotion. 

If they don't, they risk losing him like they lost Sombra. This Friday show saw the return of the post match promos. Which is a delightful surprise and can help get people invested into their people. The hair challenges or mask challenges are notorious for not leading up to an apuestas. You could hear challenges all year and never get the match. Usually the only for sure way to know it will be happening is if they advertise the match on the poster and have contract signings beforehand.

Only Thunder vs Ultimo Guerrero is signed to take place and I think they have given up on Thunder.


----------



## Stetho

Pentagon winning the 2 on 1 match to retain the titles against 2 Perros and then vacating it was sooo badass. 
I should try to watch those CMLL matches too.


----------



## Corey

Excuse the ignorance because I'm not familiar with what weight class everyone is involved in, but based off of last night's main event, could we possibly get a Maximo vs. Rush CMLL Heavyweight Title match in the future? I know Maximo has had quite a lengthy run with several defenses to this point and (to me at least), Rush looks like a heavyweight.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

They do tend to keep heavyweights at the top of the card. They classes they acknowledge are the Heavy,Welter, and Light heavy. Sometimes they will conveniently keep people away from each other and force a program based on the weight class. Though it is not uncommon to see different weighted guys in a trios.

Maximo and Rush was teased last year before the Kamaitachi deal. Him vs Rush will pop the gate.


----------



## Corey




----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I secretly hope that Elite show won't draw because if it does, CMLL will give us more Felino. The maestros match will draw at least 3000. There is a segment of fans that will buy a ticket just for that match. With the idea that they know that the maestros style is real lucha libre regardless of how well or poorly it is done.

I saw that Rocky Lobo killed it on an Elite show. Good for him. Hope he makes it out of DTU and earns a spot at arena mex.


----------



## Corey

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/702352974819885056
Hell yeah! Idk what day it's gonna be on yet, but I'll be watching for sure as long as it's on Youtube or Claro Sports. (Y)


----------



## Rah

You see the original?


----------



## Corey

^ Will definitely watch that this week. I've only seen their match from about a year again around this time and it was pretty short.

So both these shows and happening next Tuesday and both of them have title matches, but please don't tell me that the Arena Mexico show is gonna be the one on Youtube?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

^You would be correct. The other Thursday show is from Guadalajara Arena Coliseo the state Rush and his bros are from. A 3 hour drive from Mexico City and lately those shows have looked stacked. Like another Friday show and the Tuesday shows are themed to showcase the young talents. Which means guys working 20 minutes that usually don't get to. Like Hombre Bala or Cien Caras' kids. 

Rush vs Maximo HAIR is offical and set for the Homenaje dos Leyendas show. March 18 as is ***** Casas vs Volador jr HAIR


----------



## Corey

I ♥ KEMONITO;57490681 said:


> Rush vs Maximo HAIR is offical and set for the Homenaje dos Leyendas show. March 18 as is ***** Casas vs Volador jr HAIR


:mark: :mark:

Plus they made a Mexico vs. Japan Atomicos match. Kamaitachi, Okumura, Fuijin & Rajin vs. Mascara Dorada, Mistico, Dragon Lee & Valiente. Definitely willing to shell out $15 or $20 for the show if it's gonna be on a reliable source iPPV. Also how ironic that we were talking about Rush vs. Maximo being big and then they made the match days later? 

Change of topic. Fireball AKA Flamita is gonna be making his U.S. debut at Wrestlecon this year. Pentagon Jr. is on the show too so lucha love seems to be growing across the world.

@Rah I just watched that original Dorada/Casas and really enjoyed it. Appreciated how they gave effort in all 3 falls and they had some really creative stuff, just wish they would've sold those shots to the ring post a bit more. Really strong match though and it was nifty how Dorada beat him with he same way he lost the 2nd fall. Makes me more excited for their bout next week. (Y)

Still wondering why Dorada is booed there too?


----------



## USAUSA1

If the fourway mask match happen at Triplemania, it gives me hope Pentagon could be in the aaa title match.


----------



## Stetho

What's the point of having Villano and Blue Demon in the main event... *facepalm*


----------



## Rah

Stetho said:


> What's the point of having Villano and Blue Demon in the main event... *facepalm*





Spoiler: .


----------



## Corey

The actual Rey de Reyes match looks awful, but here's your date and lineup. Fenix is already booked so we could assume he won't be winning the last qualifier. I guess one of either Pentagon or Fantasma won't make the card either.


----------



## Stetho

The rest of the card is pretty cool


----------



## MR-Bolainas

AAA Should not be doing Shows in Tampico, Tamaulipas any time soon, one due to being unsafe and two because of local promoters.

Also this could be a good show again and they should bring IPPV's again. They will finally have a Megacampeonato AAA Champion and Psycho and Wagner have a mano a mano so they can probably extend this until Triplemania. Rey de Reyes match is missing one wrestler who could be Hijo del Fantasma or Pentagon Jr (Considering the effort they put into him with the Mixed Tag Team Belt and the 2 part Interview on NotiAAA). 3 Way TLC Tag Team Championship hope is won by Daga and Joe Lider as Daga hasn't won a belt time ago and hope nobody gets injured. Trios Championship hope is won by Aerostar, Drago and Fenix because they can have a pretty interesting reign and the opener is the usual relevos atomicos AAA Match, Luchador Sorpresa could be Carlito or Mr 450 but Could be also Fireball (Flamita).


----------



## Corey

Do you guys think we could see a Mysterio return after the main event or something?


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Corey said:


> Do you guys think we could see a Mysterio return after the main event or something?


Could it be possible as it seems AAA solved financial problems with him but who knows, we will know when Rey de Reyes ends

also Latest AAA Worldwide episode available here: Queretaro Part 1






-Intro Pentagon Jr and Perros del Mal about Mixed Tag Team match
*Australian Suicide, Argenis, Super Nova vs Joe Lider, La Parka Negra, Super Fly
+Rey de Reyes Group 1 Qualy Repeat
*Villano IV vs Electro Shock vs Chessman vs Jack Evans [Rey de Reyes Group 2 Qualifying]
-Noti AAA: Pentagon Jr Interview Part 2, Rey de Reyes, Australian Suicide talks about Daga
* Pentagon Jr vs Daga & Taya [Mixed Tag Team Championship]
-After Match Pentagon Jr talks about Joe Lider, Perros del Mal and Mixed Tag team belt


----------



## USAUSA1

I think aaa is done with foreigners for awhile. Between Adr, Rey,those special house shows, and even the lame Chris Masters, I think it best for aaa to stick with the Mexicans. Since Konnan is not booking anymore, Rey probably doesn't trust the creative process to come back.


----------



## Stetho

MR-Bolainas said:


> Could it be possible as it seems AAA solved financial problems with him but who knows, we will know when Rey de Reyes ends
> 
> also Latest AAA Worldwide episode available here: Queretaro Part 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Intro Pentagon Jr and Perros del Mal about Mixed Tag Team match
> *Australian Suicide, Argenis, Super Nova vs Joe Lider, La Parka Negra, Super Fly
> +Rey de Reyes Group 1 Qualy Repeat
> *Villano IV vs Electro Shock vs Chessman vs Jack Evans [Rey de Reyes Group 2 Qualifying]
> -Noti AAA: Pentagon Jr Interview Part 2, Rey de Reyes, Australian Suicide talks about Daga
> * Pentagon Jr vs Daga & Taya [Mixed Tag Team Championship]
> -After Match Pentagon Jr talks about Joe Lider, Perros del Mal and Mixed Tag team belt


Cool watch really. Great crowd and great PdM story.


----------



## Corey

The rematch is happening this week! :mark:

*CMLL (FRI) 03/04/2016 Arena México*

1) Hombre Bala Jr. & Súper Halcón Jr. vs El Cuatrero & Sansón
2) La Vaquerita, Marcela, Princesa Sugehit vs Amapola, Dalys, Tiffany
3) Esfinge, Titán, Tritón vs Ephesto, Mephisto, Virus
4) Marco Corleone, Máximo Sexy, Último Guerrero vs La Máscara, Rey Escorpión, Rush *[Relevos Increíbles]*
5) Kamaitachi *©* vs Dragón Lee *[CMLL SL]*
6) Atlantis, Máscara Dorada, Volador Jr. vs Cavernario, Mr. Niebla, ***** Casas


----------



## USAUSA1

Don't know how I feel about the rematch. The last two matches were great matches to end a feud on.


----------



## Rah

Black Terry gives not one fuck and bleeds all over Arena Mexico's ring.








Corey said:


> @Rah I just watched that original Dorada/Casas and really enjoyed it. Appreciated how they gave effort in all 3 falls and they had some really creative stuff, just wish they would've sold those shots to the ring post a bit more. Really strong match though and it was nifty how Dorada beat him with he same way he lost the 2nd fall. Makes me more excited for their bout next week. (Y)
> 
> Still wondering why Dorada is booed there too?


I cannot recall the points where they boo Dorada but CMLL fans boo tecnicos usually for one of two reasons 

1) they're tecnicos - and just like Cena/Reigns gets negative reactions, so do the hard-pushed, flashy (usually attractive) tecnicos of CMLL

2) older/purer fans do not think much of Dorada's style, and actively jeer whenever he makes a mistake and are overly critical of him - same for most high-flyers


----------



## MR-Bolainas

#LuchaxLaF1esta Promo video appear Taya, La Parka, Dr. Wagner Jr, Octagoncito, Murder Clown and El Hijo del Fantasma, more info here: 






Also this 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/704351433378795520


----------



## Yuffie Kisaragi

*Man, CAGE really puts me off. I hate this guy so much. He does nothing for me.

EDIT - I thought this was the LU thread. Wth. Lol either way that guy I don't like!*


----------



## Stetho

Cage is life !

I'd love to see Checo Perez with a mask design on his helmet for the GP


----------



## Stetho

This card looks great !


----------



## Hurin

You know, if Averno isn't going to get any sort of push in AAA I wish he could go over to Elite like Cibernetico did and wrestle with Mephisto again :/


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I was planning a trip to see the 3/18 show but scrapped the plans when Thunder vs Ultimo Guerrero was going to be the main event. If the Maximo vs Rush match came out earlier I would have gone and the Japan vs Mexico match?? forget it, I been there so fast. Now I'll wait for the aniversario. 

The 3/18 card looks great and should be an easy watch for casuals or non lucha people. 3 potential motyc


----------



## Corey

Yeah that 3/18 show looks fantastic. Will definitely look to check it out. If it's up for iPPV somewhere, someone let me know please. (Y)


----------



## MR-Bolainas

AAA Worldwide from Queretaro Part 2 Available Here:






* Ludxor & Venum vs El Apache & Carta Brava Jr
* El Elegido, Pimpinela Escarlata, Goya Kong, Dinastia vs Hijo del Pirata Morgan, Mary Apache, Mamba, Mini Charly Manson
- Noti AAA: #LuchaxLaF1esta Info, Perros del Mal Problems and how they solved them, Rey de Reyes Info and Villano IV Promo
+ Rey de Reyes Group 2 Qualyfing Repeat (El Mesias as Guest Announcer)
* La Parka vs Psycho Clown vs Averno vs El Zorro [Rey de Reyes Group 3 Qualyfing] (El Mesias as Guest Announcer)


----------



## Corey

In case you forgot:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/705941018395303936
HYPED


----------



## LilOlMe

Corey said:


> In case you forgot:
> 
> HYPED


Just saw this. I'm in. Did I miss it? And did I miss Ruuuush?


----------



## Corey

LilOlMe said:


> Just saw this. I'm in. Did I miss it? And did I miss Ruuuush?


Match is about to start! You just missed Rush.


----------



## LilOlMe

Corey said:


> Match is about to start!
> 
> You just missed Rush.


Yeah, watching it now.

Dammit.

Oh, so _now_ it buffers.

Do you know if this gets archived?


----------



## Vårmakos

Dragon Lee/Tachi must be a best out of infinite series.


----------



## Corey

Well that was fucking fantastic. **** 1/4 and the Lucha MOTY so far for me. They got a tad excessive towards the very end, but still an incredible match.



LilOlMe said:


> Yeah, watching it now.
> 
> Dammit.
> 
> Oh, so _now_ it buffers.
> 
> Do you know if this gets archived?


No I don't think so. The matches usually get uploaded on Youtube within a week afterwards though.



Vårmakos said:


> Dragon Lee/Tachi must be a best out of infinite series.


The way this match went down made it seem like it would be the final one considering everything they had to use, but FUCK, with chemistry like this I'll gladly watch them wrestle every other month.


----------



## LilOlMe

^Thanks for the answer.

Really great. Over ****, definitely. Prefer the NJPW match because it felt more like a sustained war right from the beginning, but this was terrific in that they were laying it all out there. The back and forth moments were sooo well done.

Dragon Lee's response when Kama ran down that ramp...good Lord.

I've seen Kofi Kingston do that flip move where he lands on the mat with the guys, but this shows you how superior some wrestlers are. Those two move like one so that everything is one motion. That's why it looks so much better when they do it.

Sick chemistry and so damn smooth.

Could we kill the Mexican referees, please? This one wasn't as bad as the dude with the suspenders, though. I swear with that guy I could go to the fridge and get some water, come back, and we still haven't gotten to the three count yet. So bad.


----------



## Corey

LilOlMe said:


> Could we kill the Mexican referees, please? This one wasn't as bad as the dude with the suspenders, though. I swear with that guy I could go to the fridge and get some water, come back, and we still haven't gotten to the three count yet. So bad.


Hahaha. I used to think that same thing when I first started watching lucha. You kinda grow accustomed to it because basically all the refs are like that. They count slower to create more drama, so to speak. Sometimes it works, sometimes you wanna yell at your television. I HATED it in Kamaitachi's hair match with Maximo earlier this year.


----------



## LilOlMe

Corey said:


> Hahaha. I used to think that same thing when I first started watching lucha. You kinda grow accustomed to it because basically all the refs are like that. They count slower to create more drama, so to speak. Sometimes it works, sometimes you wanna yell at your television. I HATED it in Kamaitachi's hair match with Maximo earlier this year.


Yeah, they're all like that, but it's not just the count. The main thing is that it takes for forever for them to get down on the mat. When you have guys like these two working & going for quick pins, it comes off really atrociously. The ref looked genuinely surprised at one point and killed the whole point of the pin attempt.

It's something that will always irk me even though I'm used to it. To this day I get irritated watching matches refereed by Scott Armstrong (aka the "crooked referee" in WWE). He sits up while hitting the mat, so it creates this really irritating cadence to his count. Lazy fucker, lay down.

Oh, and I also hate when referees hit the mat hard so that it sounds like an actual count. Throws everything off. 

These are simple things that could get trained out of them, but no one bothers to do it.


----------



## Corey

Oh yeah, I hate Scott Armstrong. His cadence is awful and slows everything down. I've always hated how Earl Hebner literally FLAILS his body when it's a late two count. Like, what the fuck are you doing? Did someone push you down as you were about to count 3?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Dragon Lee vs Kamaitachi was so wild. Lucha MOTY I'm giving it the full *****

These two really held nothing back. Fuck the storytelling and selling this was war. A german suplex on the floor and a bump off the apron to the floor right after?? This was display of complete madness and ended up turning into a war of attrition with various near falls that made me think "its over".

All lucha fans pretty much whole heartedly agree that the referees are terrible and more likely than not fuck up the finish or bring the match down. 

We should probably wait for a version that doesn't skip of the match to come out. HERE http://www.clarosports.com/lucha-li...ano-a-mano-de-dragon-lee-y-kamaitachi-590322/

And AAA has presented Flamita as the new Octagon jr. at a show in Toluca MX. 











On that taping, Pentagon jr advaced out of his group to the Rey de Reyes final vs Blue Demon jr, Villano IV, and La Parka


----------



## USAUSA1

What a time to be alive.


----------



## Stetho

Great night !


----------



## ArnDaddy

If it is not too much trouble, Can someone tell me what events, if any, AAA have held since Guerra de Titanes that are available online please as I want to catch up before Rey de Reyes? I usually watch with english commentaries but nothing has been uploaded since then and my spanish is good enough to watch if there is a way online?

Also, Which CMLL show did this Dragon Lee \ Kamaitachi show take place please?

Thanks in advance


----------



## Stetho

ArnDaddy said:


> If it is not too much trouble, Can someone tell me what events, if any, AAA have held since Guerra de Titanes that are available online please as I want to catch up before Rey de Reyes? I usually watch with english commentaries but nothing has been uploaded since then and my spanish is good enough to watch if there is a way online?
> 
> Also, Which CMLL show did this Dragon Lee \ Kamaitachi show take place please?
> 
> Thanks in advance


There's pretty much everything on AAA youtube channel. Here are all the 2016 shows (except for yesterday of course) :
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeac9iWFuRTuCbwuG4p71l2Aht3x07g6a

The last Lee vs Kamaitachi was on Friday's CMLL show. It's here : http://www.clarosports.com/lucha-li...ano-a-mano-de-dragon-lee-y-kamaitachi-590322/


----------



## Vårmakos

Definitely prefer the Flamita attire. He looks like a geek now.


----------



## USAUSA1

Meltzer called Kamaitachi a future legend.Wow

I was thinking,there is a small possibility we might see Ricochet vs Dragon Lee in njpw. Let's pray


----------



## MR-Bolainas

ArnDaddy said:


> If it is not too much trouble, Can someone tell me what events, if any, AAA have held since Guerra de Titanes that are available online please as I want to catch up before Rey de Reyes? I usually watch with english commentaries but nothing has been uploaded since then and my spanish is good enough to watch if there is a way online?
> Thanks in advance


Hi, Since GdT AAA has held (and will hold) next TV Tapings

*02/06 Cuautitlan*









*02/19 Queretaro*









*03/04 Toluca*
It will be broadcasted this week

*03/11 Naucalpan*


----------



## ArnDaddy

Thanks guys!


----------



## Rah

Dragon Lee vs Ray Horus is (mostly) online. It's unpretty, and the two look like some backyard jabronis with some of their spots. It was a weird dynamic with what I'm sure was Lee working heel (in antagonizing the crowd) yet Horus is booked as the rudo. Lee works very stiff and pretty much fucks Horus back up on the finish. Poor Ray got stretchered out.

@Corey, Extreme Tiger vs Mascara Dorada is on the same channel. They're both missing the front half. Best you're likely to get, sorry.


----------



## Corey

Rah said:


> Dragon Lee vs Ray Horus is (mostly) online. It's unpretty, and the two look like some backyard jabronis with some of their spots. It was a weird dynamic with what I'm sure was Lee working heel (in antagonizing the crowd) yet Horus is booked as the rudo. Lee works very stiff and pretty much fucks Horus back up on the finish. Poor Ray got stretchered out.
> 
> @Corey, Extreme Tiger vs Mascara Dorada is on the same channel. They're both missing the front half. Best you're likely to get, sorry.


Dude, fuck yes thank you for the share. Definitely subbed to that channel. I watched pretty much everything he had up from that show and really enjoyed it. I've never really seen anything like that in modern lucha. The crowd was so fucking HOSTILE and it reminded me of mid-90s ECW or something.

Lee/Horus was kinda weird at times. Didn't think it was awful but it certainly wasn't my favorite match from the show and I kinda think Horus looked like a chump against him.

Dorada vs. Tiger was a fun spotfest. Don't think Dorada's title defense against Casas from a week or two ago will ever see the light of day, do you? Fucking Lucha...

Ultimo Guerrero vs. Pagano was fucking crazy. Seriously the most entertaining brawl I've seen in a really long time. I can pretty much tell Pagano is probably a shitty ass wrestler, but holy fuck this was cool to watch. They nearly took out like 5 people in the crowd and threw like 20 chairs. :lol

Really enjoyed Atlantis vs. Caifan too. Loved how Atlantis seemed to embrace the boos from the crowd and beat the shit out of Caifan on the outside. Never seen him wrestle like that before. It's still extremely impressive how well he moves around the ring at age 53. Speaking of Atlantis, this damn match won't make tape either will it?

*CMLL (SAT) 03/12/2016 Arena Coliseo*
7) Último Guerrero *©* vs Atlantis *[NWA MIDDLE]*


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Here's Flamita, Fireball redebuting the Octagon Jr Character in Rey de Reyes Group 4 Qualyfing: Pentagon Jr vs Fenix vs Hijo del Fantasma vs Octagon Jr






Also

#CeroMiedo


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

IT FINALLY DROPPED

CHAIRO II


----------



## Rah

Look at its card. LOOK










:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone:sodone
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----------



## Corey

God damn that's a lotta Mark Henry's. :lol

That 4-way qualifier was a lot of fun. Octagon looked great in his (re)debut I guess and the ref screwing him was kinda funny (although idk the story behind it). Pentagon seems way over and hopefully he runs through the old men at Rey de Reyes.

Would also love to see Octagon Jr. get a Cruiserweight Title shot against Fantasma since he eliminated him. I'm assuming Octagon will be the surprise luchador in the atomicos opener though.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Octagon jr got a win over Fantasma (who I thought looked the best I've ever seen from him since joining AAA) and gave him a match within a match against Pentagon jr. (the company's most popular wrestler). Pretty good debut, and the referee bit helped tremendously because he was getting boos and heckled. That turned the people on to his side. Not sure if that was the intention but it was genius.

Saving CHAIRO II for tomorrow when I'm free.


----------



## Rah

Corey said:


> Dude, fuck yes thank you for the share. Definitely subbed to that channel. I watched pretty much everything he had up from that show and really enjoyed it. I've never really seen anything like that in modern lucha. The crowd was so fucking HOSTILE and it reminded me of mid-90s ECW or something.
> 
> Lee/Horus was kinda weird at times. Didn't think it was awful but it certainly wasn't my favorite match from the show and I kinda think Horus looked like a chump against him.
> 
> Dorada vs. Tiger was a fun spotfest. Don't think Dorada's title defense against Casas from a week or two ago will ever see the light of day, do you? Fucking Lucha...
> 
> Ultimo Guerrero vs. Pagano was fucking crazy. Seriously the most entertaining brawl I've seen in a really long time. I can pretty much tell Pagano is probably a shitty ass wrestler, but holy fuck this was cool to watch. They nearly took out like 5 people in the crowd and threw like 20 chairs. :lol
> 
> Really enjoyed Atlantis vs. Caifan too. Loved how Atlantis seemed to embrace the boos from the crowd and beat the shit out of Caifan on the outside. Never seen him wrestle like that before. It's still extremely impressive how well he moves around the ring at age 53. Speaking of Atlantis, this damn match won't make tape either will it?
> 
> *CMLL (SAT) 03/12/2016 Arena Coliseo*
> 7) Último Guerrero *©* vs Atlantis *[NWA MIDDLE]*


MisticieroTV has the front half of Lee/Horus, if you want it. Another good channel for lucha handhelds.

Someone will probably tape Guerrero/Atlantis. You also have your dates wrong for Dorada/Casas; that happened three days ago. It will air via Cubsfan on Tuesday, most likely. The title match you're thinking of is Mephisto/Dorada. That is available, too.


----------



## Corey

Rah said:


> Someone will probably tape Guerrero/Atlantis. You also have your dates wrong for Dorada/Casas; that happened three days ago. It will air via Cubsfan on Tuesday, most likely. The title match you're thinking of is Mephisto/Dorada. That is available, too.


Casas/Dorada happened last Tuesday, so technically I was kinda right on the date.  Cubsfan posted something saying he thinks Guadalajara TV is airing a repeat this week so he's not sure if/when it will air. Hoping it does sometime.

Saw Dorada/Mephisto, thought it was great. Keep up with the thread Rah! :lol


----------



## Rah

Corey said:


> Casas/Dorada happened last Tuesday, so technically I was kinda right on the date.  Cubsfan posted something saying he thinks Guadalajara TV is airing a repeat this week so he's not sure if/when it will air. Hoping it does sometime.
> 
> Saw Dorada/Mephisto, thought it was great. Keep up with the thread Rah! :lol


Ah, I noted the air date (Saturday) as it being the taped date. Guess we'll have to hold thumbs.

Also, go away. I'm old.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Virus vs ***** Navarro was straight fire. The only knock I could find on it was Virus running out of llaves, but then recomposed himself to finish this fantastic match. I'd rate it ****3/4

Also the opener was bananas. Alas de acero,Aramis,Iron kid,Demasiado vs Mike Segura,Freelance,Super Mega,Septimo Rayo- I've compared it to Guerilla Warfare from 2015 day 2 BOLA so people can understand how crazy it gets. ****1/2

Atlantis vs Caifan- I would not believe it if you told me that Atlantis was going to brawl and Caifan would do something other than his typical match. Caifan took advantage of the situation. Working with a legend. He brought out that side of Atlantis we didn't know he still had in him. Brilliant brawling from Atlantis. Caifan sold huge down the stretch which brought this to the next level. I think it falls just shy of being a ****1/2 match. ****1/4

The other matches were pretty much average. Dr Cerebro vs ***** Casas was going good until it ended so abruptly. Another awesome show from Lucha Memes. They put on 2 Show of the year contenders in 2015.


----------



## Corey

Lucha Memes already has their next show lined up too.


----------



## Corey

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/707988726517895168
(Y)


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Latest AAA TV Episode Available Here: Toluca Part 1






- Pentagon Jr Intro (Talks about Hayabusa, Perros del Mal and Rey de Reyes) + Surprise Sign (Kanji) appears
* Ludxor & Venum vs Super Fly & Carta Brava Jr
* Psycho Circus (Psycho Clown, Monster Clown & Murder Clown) vs Los Xinetez (Dark Cuervo, Scoria & Zorro) 
- Noti AAA: AAA Coins, #LuchaxLaF1esta Info and Mexican F1 GP, Los Xinetez Promo
+ Rey de Reyes Group 1, Group 2, Group 3 Qualyfing Recap 
* Rey de Reyes Group 4 Qualyfing: Pentagon Jr vs Hijo del Fantasma vs Fenix vs Surprise Wrestler (Who was Octagon Jr previously known as Fireball and Flamita)


----------



## Stetho

MR-Bolainas said:


> Latest AAA TV Episode Available Here: Toluca Part 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Pentagon Jr Intro (Talks about Hayabusa, Perros del Mal and Rey de Reyes) + Surprise Sign (Kanji) appears
> * Ludxor & Venum vs Super Fly & Carta Brava Jr
> * Psycho Circus (Psycho Clown, Monster Clown & Murder Clown) vs Los Xinetez (Dark Cuervo, Scoria & Zorro)
> - Noti AAA: AAA Coins, #LuchaxLaF1esta Info and Mexican F1 GP, Los Xinetez Promo
> + Rey de Reyes Group 1, Group 2, Group 3 Qualyfing Recap
> * Rey de Reyes Group 4 Qualyfing: Pentagon Jr vs Hijo del Fantasma vs Fenix vs Surprise Wrestler (Who was Octagon Jr previously known as Fireball and Flamita)


Damn, Pentagon promo is totally tecnico. Still, pretty good with a mic.
The Main Event is awesome. Great crowd too.


----------



## USAUSA1

Business has been good so far for aaa. I hope they save Octagon vs Pentagon for Mania.


----------



## amhlilhaus

USAUSA1 said:


> Business has been good so far for aaa. I hope they save Octagon vs Pentagon for Mania.


Have they seemed to recover from their recent rough stretch?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

amhlilhaus said:


> Have they seemed to recover from their recent rough stretch?


It appears they have an end game now that Konnan is out of power. Things have direction and are progressing towards that goal now. Pentagon jr seems to be getting the big win at rey de reyes, but you never know with the others involved. 

I loved Dragon Lee vs Rey Horuz. Lee is having that crazy type of match against everyone and I admire him for it. This happened the day after next of the Kamaitachi match and that is INSANE.

Atlantis vs Caifan was great aswell. What would have been Pierotth jr. Caifan is bringing out the best of Atlantis and really making this fued into something great. Excellent brawling that reminds me of legends like Sangre Chicana and MS1. He is the number one indy guy coming out of this no matter the result.

Let me remind everyone that CMLL streams will run an hour behind if your watching in the US. Example = Friday 8:30 shows would start at 9:30


----------



## Rah

What's the likelihood that Rush loses?


----------



## Rah

Found the full matches (Y)


----------



## Corey

I'm gonna go with Volador & Rush as my picks. Not like Maximo has much hair to lose anyway.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Rah said:


> What's the likelihood that Rush loses?


0.0%

I don't see Rush losing his hair to anybody other than his family or Atlantis. I did think the LA Park rivalry was going there but the company used the most minimal excuse to get rid of him. If that is off the table either his brothers or Atlantis are taking his hair. 

I do not put it out of question that cmll would book Mistico over Rush for the hair in an effort to make him the idol they wish he was. And I think if you ask Rush he would rather put over his family.


----------



## Corey

Big main event next week in Puebla.

*CMLL (MON) 03/21/2016 Arena Puebla*
1) Astro & Asturiano vs Espanto Jr. & Fuerza Chicana
2) Astral & Eléctrico vs Mini Joker & Saurón
3) Black Tiger, Hombre Bala Jr., Súper Halcón Jr. vs Espíritu Maligno, King Jaguar, Metálico
4) Blue Panther Jr., Stigma, The Panther vs Fujin, Okumura, Raijin
5) Dragón Lee, Máscara Dorada, Volador Jr. vs Cavernario, Mr. Niebla, ***** Casas
6) Carístico vs Último Guerrero


----------



## Rah

Hopefully Niebla is too drunk to make it to the arena and is replaced by Felino. #5 sounds proper crazy.



I ♥ KEMONITO;58052153 said:


> 0.0%
> 
> I don't see Rush losing his hair to anybody other than his family or Atlantis. I did think the LA Park rivalry was going there but the company used the most minimal excuse to get rid of him. If that is off the table either his brothers or Atlantis are taking his hair.
> 
> I do not put it out of question that cmll would book Mistico over Rush for the hair in an effort to make him the idol they wish he was. And I think if you ask Rush he would rather put over his family.


I honestly thought Parka might lose his mask to Rush, if CMLL pulled the trigger. That would make him a made man forever. He has some great hair, already, but he needs someone big. Let's face it, ***** Casas loses to everyone. Even when he wins he loses (vs Panther). I joke. I'm trying to watch some promos to get the buildup and it seems in Rush's favour, in my heart, but I worry, nontheless. Unless Rush is leaving, like Sombra, I don't think he should be losing an apuesta until he makes the next big star.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I really thought the fued with Park was going there too. But politics. 

Which is why I strongly suspect we will get Dragon Lee vs Rush before Rush leaves, if he wants to leave. BUT if Dragon Lee gets poached, which I think there is a huge probability of happening in the very near future..that match will be left on the table. Why?, because the DL losing it on the way out benefits nobody, unless it's Kamaitachi who they don't plan on keeping, so it won't happen.


----------



## Stetho

I just don't get what's happening with AAA. The last shows/tapings looked like everything was okay, and now Konnan is screaming again on Twitter. We were said that his protegees would suffer from his departure but at the moment Flamita, Pentagon, Los Perros are having a good exposure.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

They just got rid of Konnan. Most of what is going on is the politics being played. Sure they owe people money but that’s not a big deal, it happens. 

I think they have been wanting to pull the trigger on Octagon jr and Konnan didn't or wanted to build it up. There are the rumors that Konnan is looking to start his own promotion or do shows and he has systematically exhiled talents from the company's plans to force them to leave or become frustrated with the company. Examples Sexy Star, Angelico, Cibernetico, Caristico. Now it seems that Fantasma is going to join them.


----------



## Stetho

That would suck. I'm hoping AAA could grow bigger and bigger and having an other silly little promotion trying to attack them would just slow everyone.


----------



## Rah

La Sociedad becoming an actual promotion that interferes at Triplemania in the near future would be the biggest blow. :no:


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Rah said:


> La Sociedad becoming an actual promotion that interferes at Triplemania in the near future would be the biggest blow. :no:


Yes I thought this is all angle knowing Konnan is one of the few people that tried to get the announcer Arturo Rivera a job with the company and the way things are playing out. Still you never know.

ORDER ON IPPV TODAY IF YOU CAN BECAUSE THE PRICE GOES UP THE DAY OF THE SHOW http://cmll.cleeng.com/homenaje-a-dos-leyendas/E995351613_MX?_ga=1.154247480.1069636419.1441038808








COSTS 12 USD


----------



## USAUSA1

Remember that Court Bauer currently working for aaa and luchaunderground.


----------



## Corey

So this is happening:

*CMLL (TUE) 03/22/2016 Arena Coliseo Guadalajara*
4) Dragón Lee *©* vs Cavernario *[CMLL SL]*

:mark:



I ♥ KEMONITO;58111649 said:


> ORDER ON IPPV TODAY IF YOU CAN BECAUSE THE PRICE GOES UP THE DAY OF THE SHOW


Damn, the show is at 10:30 Eastern time? Is that because of daylight savings time still??


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Stetho said:


> I just don't get what's happening with AAA. The last shows/tapings looked like everything was okay, and now Konnan is screaming again on Twitter. We were said that his protegees would suffer from his departure but at the moment Flamita, Pentagon, Los Perros are having a good exposure.


Konnan leaving AAA could be something good, who knows, but at least (with the roldans) they are doing something different: Flamita becoming Octagon Jr, Pentagon Jr on Rey de Reyes, More Perros del Mal , Venum vs El Apache Feud, Daga vs Australian Suicide (perhaps)



I ♥ KEMONITO;58109393 said:


> They just got rid of Konnan. Most of what is going on is the politics being played. Sure they owe people money but that’s not a big deal, it happens.
> 
> I think they have been wanting to pull the trigger on Octagon jr and Konnan didn't or wanted to build it up. There are the rumors that Konnan is looking to start his own promotion or do shows and he has systematically exhiled talents from the company's plans to force them to leave or become frustrated with the company. Examples Sexy Star, Angelico, Cibernetico, Caristico. Now it seems that Fantasma is going to join them.


Yeah probably he will create a promotion, that would explain why he is so worried about being paid, and Sexy Star has zero interest for AAA perhaps LU, Angelico doesn't like Marisela and he hasn't being around as he's wrestling at Europe now, Hijo del Fantasma probably would join him as he hasn't posted few things related to AAA since that Tweet but it's clear that he's not happy about AAA (or perhaps he's jealous of Pentagon Jr being featured on AAA TV a lot?)


----------



## USAUSA1

Elite got a major tv deal. Should be interesting. Aaa is lucky to have luchaunderground in their back pocket because Elite got some power now.

It's about to get ugly.


----------



## Stetho

Jeez, Elite's gonna keep breaking everybody's balls.


----------



## LilOlMe

I ♥ KEMONITO;58111649 said:


> ORDER ON IPPV TODAY IF YOU CAN BECAUSE THE PRICE GOES UP THE DAY OF THE SHOW http://cmll.cleeng.com/homenaje-a-dos-leyendas/E995351613_MX?_ga=1.154247480.1069636419.1441038808
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COSTS 12 USD


Does anyone know if these matches usually make it to Youtube and the like eventually?

I really only care about the Rush match, and maybe the eight man tag.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

The show will probably make YT the same night/early morning. I ordered it because its a show that deserves the support to show the promotion we want more of these kind of shows. I think more people than ever before are going to order this show.


----------



## Stetho

Well, Cage is going to Elite to face Rush...
Fuck you Elite, why do you have to take me everything I like ?


----------



## Corey

How was the show last night? I planned on buying it but the time was just really inconvenient. 10:30 PM - 1:30 AM on the east coast and I was in bed a little after 12. 

It's not possible for me to buy any replay or just to pay to watch it right?


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Latest AAA Worldwide Episode Available Here:

AAA Worldwide from Toluca Part 2

* Niño Hamburguesa, Goya Kong & Mascarita Sagrada vs El Apache, Taya & Mini Psycho Clown
* Aerostar & Drago vs Hijo del Pirata Morgan & Taurus
- Noti AAA: AAA Coins Info, Rey de Reyes and La Parka Info, Octagon Jr Info, Hijo del Perro Aguayo Tribute Video Preview
+ Rey de Reyes Group 4 Qualifying Repeat
* Dr Wagner Jr vs El Mesias vs Texano Jr [Bullterrier Match]
- Dr Wagner Jr and Psycho Clown Brawl after Match


----------



## Rah

LilOlMe said:


> Does anyone know if these matches usually make it to Youtube and the like eventually?
> 
> I really only care about the Rush match, and maybe the eight man tag.





Corey said:


> How was the show last night? I planned on buying it but the time was just really inconvenient. 10:30 PM - 1:30 AM on the east coast and I was in bed a little after 12.
> 
> It's not possible for me to buy any replay or just to pay to watch it right?











The heat Rush gets is crazy


----------



## Stetho

Rah said:


> The heat Rush gets is crazy


That Rush's (fake) entrance :zeb


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

H2L was a really good show. Only the old timers match was below average. The rest were good.

1) Oro Jr. & Soberano Jr. vs El Cuatrero & Sansón **3/4
I really like Cien Cara's son Cuatrero. He looks like he has got star potential. Being who he is, there is a good chance of him being one. 
2) Ángel de Oro, Rey Cometa, Titán vs Ephesto, Luciferno, Mephisto ***
3) Dragón Lee, Máscara Dorada, Mistico, Valiente vs Fujin, Kamaitachi, Okumura, Raijin ***1/2
Team Japon got the early advantage in the match and was in control as a team. The individualities proved to be too much and overwhelmed them. Raijin seems to be pulling ahead of Fujin when it comes to charisma and work in the style. Team Mexico got back in it thanks to an aerial onslaught. Fun match
4) Rush vs Máximo Sexy [hair] ***1/2
This match was really well thought out. They protected Maximo and at the same time made Rush look even more invincible when he kicked out of the triple kiss. They even established a new member of Los Ingobernables and got him a ton of heat. This was more of a "I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine" type of match.
5) Atlantis, Marco Corleone, Súper Porky vs Cibernético, Mr. Niebla, Último Guerrero *1/4
Didn't really pay attention. Mostly comedy and angle to set up Ciber vs UG.
6) Volador Jr. vs ***** Casas ****
***** Casas still putting on these great matches and still able to keep up with the younger guys. Though not as well as he'd like to. I really think this is it as far as him going 1 vs 1 in an athletic type of match. He doesn't match up well with Volador jr but he found a way to make it work. Really clean match despite all the filthy build and chicanery that preceded them. I was waiting for a run in but it never happened. A man that old should not be taking that finish but he did and what a way to go out. 

I would not mind if CMLL decided to book a triangular for the anniversary show where the winner faces Atlantis. In fact I think its the way to go.
Rush vs Volador jr. (Winner vs Atlantis for the mask/hair)

and today marks the tragic anniversary of Perro's death. One of the greats. There is not another one like him around and I doubt there ever will be.


----------



## Corey

Watched both hair matches from Leyendas. Thought Rush/Maximo was the better of the two. Rush has gotta be the biggest heel in the company, right? Put the heavyweight title on him or something. Didn't think it was a great match by any means but an enjoyable one due to the nearfalls in the tercera. Rush's dominance was great and that piledriver he used to win looked NASTY.

Casas vs. Volador was the type of match that would look incredible on a highlight reel, but then you watch the match and realize absolutely nothing happened outside of those highlights. The first two falls were short as shit and then they just traded spots for 10 or 15 minutes. I mean, they did some pretty cool stuff and it's incredible that Casas is still taking those bumps at his age, but there was nothing to sink your teeth into whatsoever here. Whatever they were trying to do with the finish looked weird as hell too.

Also a reminder, Ultimo Guerrero vs. Caristico happens in Puebla tonight after RAW, but it's gonna air late as shit here on the east coast. Big week for Lucha. Rey de Reyes and Aztec Warfare 2 on the same night! :mark:


----------



## USAUSA1

Big show tonight for cmll.


----------



## Corey

Great match between Guerrero & Caristico (*** 3/4). Definitely the best Puebla match I've seen this year. Crowd was going wild by the end of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kD...-oByCho-pKVjAgowL-MWdhWPF44KGEGjrSkXII9CBC-eQ

Cavernario also challenged Dorada to a title match after their 6-man. Hopefully that happens somewhere that I can actually watch it.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

UG vs Caristico was pretty great. Better than anything off of the H2L show. If you complain about the lack of psychology in lucha give it a watch. ****1/4


----------



## Corey

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/712085980929400832
Gives people in the U.S. enough time to watch Aztec Warfare 2 and then buy the iPPV if they wanna stay up late enough for it. 

The last couple major AAA shows have been disasters as far as production and stream quality though, haven't they? Not sure if I'd wanna give them the money just yet.


----------



## Rah

Virus vs Guerrero Maya Jr this Saturday. There's no title, but they didn't need one last year to knock a MotYC out the park with almost no notice of wrestling each other. Should be a great one.


----------



## Corey

Dorada vs. Cavernario for the Welterweight Title in Puebla next Monday! :mark:


----------



## USAUSA1

Cmll match making has been on point. They are trying to be promotion of the year since njpw falling off.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

I think I am going to pay the $15. I don't know why, but I was interested in the main and co. Hoping for Psycho and Mesias. No English commentary?

Also, it is coming up as $19 for me.


----------



## USAUSA1

I'm skeptical since aaa announced nothing. I won't do it.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Skeptical of what? It working? It says "outside of Mexico: $15", so I assume it can be watched.


----------



## Corey

WesternFilmGuy said:


> I think I am going to pay the $15. I don't know why, but I was interested in the main and co. Hoping for Psycho and Mesias. No English commentary?
> 
> Also, it is coming up as $19 for me.


Check these tweets. Seems strange.

https://twitter.com/luchablog/status/712325764885024770
https://twitter.com/luchablog/status/712325456469446656
https://twitter.com/luchablog/status/712325163530854401

_Rey de Reyes is on iPPV – probably. Their iPPV site has been updated with Rey de Reyes info; it had not been last week. The page lists it as $15/150 MXP, but no one can actually pay that amount. If you bought the previous show, the website doesn’t know this is a new show and will allow you in without paying more. If you haven’t signed up before, it’ll prompt you to pay $19 USD. AAA hasn’t advertised this iPPV at all and I would not pay for this show until they do, just to safeguard yourself from them resetting the sale history and unintentionally wiping out your purchase.
_


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Fine. I won't buy it. I am going to be in Chicago anyway, was going to come home and watch it live but it looks like it starts pretty early. Also, Mini Charly Manson quitting. I ain't buying that shit anymore for sure. XD XD XD


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

You will regret paying for that Rey de Reyes show.

Here is Caifan vs Ultimo Guerrero. More like a usual Caifan match but they bring the intensity in this one and a good finish. Great pace to it. ****
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gvWbDyh0bM


----------



## USAUSA1

Plus, the show will be on youtube on their main page probably in 3 weeks. 

I am curious too see who win the top matches. Texano most likely will win the title but to be bias I want Mesias to win. I also want Pentagon to win Rey de Reyes but it will probably be La Parka for the 1000th time. In the perfect world, I would have Mesias win the title and Pentagon to win Rey de Reyes setting up Pentagon vs. Mesias at Triplemania. Wagner will probably win.

The under card is not bad. La Secta vs. Aerostar/Drago/Fenix for the Trio titles. TLC match for the tag titles. It can turn out to be a really good show


----------



## Stetho

Pentagon need a big opponent yes, but not sure if I want him to be Mesias.

Bobby Lashley is taking Cage's spot in Elite. Good thing to see the Machine is still in good term with AAA.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Bobby Lashley is a great choice for CMLL.


----------



## Rah

Hopefully doesn't dog it like he did in AAA.


----------



## Pedro Vicious

I just came back from Rey de reyes, it was a good show with some not so good matches
The show open with a tribute to Perro Aguayo
The Rey de reyes match was not good, Pentagon needed better oponents La Parka is too injured and Villano too old but the right person won, at the end there was the return of the old Perros del mal(la familia de tijuana) and they attacked the red t-shirt Perros del mal
Wagner vs Psycho was an awesome brawl, rudo Wagner is f'n amazing they brawl all over the arena, the crowd was very into it 
The main event was boring, I really want to like Texano, there is something in there but he has not find it yet


----------



## USAUSA1

Lashley wasting his time in pro wrestling while he can easily be the face of Bellator. Him and Coker need to have a serious meeting.


----------



## Corey

On the plus side, it looks like Rey de Reyes drew a good crowd and they didn't broadcast an iPPV so there weren't any fuck ups there. 

Looking forward to seeing Wagner vs. Psycho Clown after hearing it was a bloody brawl.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

I am interested as well!


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Pedro Vicious said:


> I just came back from Rey de reyes, it was a good show with some not so good matches


How did the crowd react to Pagano? Did they know who he was? 

The Perros vs Perros thing will probably rub a good amount of people the wrong way. The smart fans know the old Perros are dilapidated and not what they used to be. The casuals will see this as disrespect to Perro jr. and not get into it.

Pagano seems like a lateral move more than anything for Pentagon jr. and I think it will end up benefiting Pagano more.


----------



## Corey

Why can't they just push Pentagon into the main event scene? Him winning Rey de Reyes doesn't feel like it's doing anything for him if he's just gonna feud with some old timers and a new guy.


----------



## HoHo

We've waited for this show for weeks and it came to us like a C4 Bomb!


Dug the opening segment with Catrina, Pentagon JR and Fenix. Pentagon JR looked like a boss like he always does, he fears no man, Alien, or God. He is only afraid of his Master, so when is that man going to show up? La Guerra Azteca starting off the show, perfect decision to start off the show like that. Grab the fans attention the moment the start of the show, this is why Lucha Underground rocks! I nearly flipped my wig seeing Rey Mysterio be number 2 in Aztec Warfare, too bad Mysterio never was able to pass the torch to a young Lucha Star in the making, he'll do it with various guys including Fenix more and more as he gets his feet wet. We went from that nice mashup of Luchadors, to Cuerno performing top three best Suicide Dives in the business on Fenix. We even had Famous B passing out cards, no selling the threat of being out there near the ring during Aztec Warfare. B is a man of all trades, expect that man to get people in trouble with some business. Also where in the hell did Mundo find a Block of Cement to destroy Cage's head with? Surely you don't find those under the ring, did a fan bring it to the show? I mean probably not, but with this crowd..anything is possible. Wonderful first showing for Azteca JR, dude was putting in that work, flying with ease. I look forward to seeing Rey Rey's pupil kick ass in LU. Obviously I loved Pentagon JR going after Muertes, going after his ribs, very smart of the man to go after his ribs, and Muertes elimination was no shock. Muertes when he gets healthy is going to try to murder Pentagon JR and swallow his Mask, or at least try!

Who didn't get hype when Cueto came out of no where, just as Vampiro got slapped? I was little disappointed Pentagon JR didn't get in, he deserved to be in there, but I guess we got Matanza instead. I really liked when all the guys in the match stopped fighting to see if Matanza is as bad, and evil like Cueto said he was over past episodes. I was totally shocked to see Matanza eliminate Fenix, I thought it would come down to those two, so that was a negative for me. Man these guys tried to fight Matanza with everything, even Texano tried to choke that man out with a Cow Bell, and the man kept coming back and making them pay! We've got a new champ in the Temple, the ultimate Create a Superstar, he had a shitload of moves, that he displayed on the other guys in the ring. Who's gonna stop that man, I'm not sure Muertes can handle that man..I guess Fenix and Pentagon JR might have to climb this mountain too.


----------



## USAUSA1

Corey said:


> Why can't they just push Pentagon into the main event scene? Him winning Rey de Reyes doesn't feel like it's doing anything for him if he's just gonna feud with some old timers and a new guy.


What main event scene? Lol

I think Pentagon is in about 3 feuds. One with Jack Evans, Octagon Jr and Nicho group.

I hope we get Wagner vs Psycho in a mask match at mania but anything can happen.


----------



## Corey

Look what made tape! 






And honestly, this show doesn't look too bad:


----------



## Pedro Vicious

I ♥ KEMONITO;58312217 said:


> How did the crowd react to Pagano? Did they know who he was?
> 
> The Perros vs Perros thing will probably rub a good amount of people the wrong way. The smart fans know the old Perros are dilapidated and not what they used to be. The casuals will see this as disrespect to Perro jr. and not get into it.
> 
> Pagano seems like a lateral move more than anything for Pentagon jr. and I think it will end up benefiting Pagano more.


Some didnt know who he was but he got a good reaction, the feud looks interesting


----------



## xsw1

Corey said:


> On the plus side, it looks like Rey de Reyes drew a good crowd and they didn't broadcast an iPPV so there weren't any fuck ups there.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing Wagner vs. Psycho Clown after hearing it was a bloody brawl.



They did?? :surprise: But... but... they didn't had any of those overpaid foreigners who only make money for Konnans pocket, how could they draw a good crowd?

Was expecting LA Park as a surprise to counter the recent loses, Familia de Tijuana is like... meh, guess AAA threw them a bone in case some disgruntled guy tries to steal the PdM brand... of course, giving familia tv exposure may actually help them be more attractive for someone else to offer them $$$ for a jump, so AAA should had made something new...

It seems VIlano IV vs Clown is what is coming, but they either think it won't sell well (I think it would do bigger business than last year) or they want to turn it into a Wagner match to avoid last year's embarrassment.

Looks like they're turning the clock back to 2014, wish they do something different and turn Texano tecnico, could lead to fresh feuds vs Hijo del Pirata, Pentagon Jr, Mesias, Taurus and Hijo del Fantasma (if he's not gone)


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Corey said:


> Why can't they just push Pentagon into the main event scene? Him winning Rey de Reyes doesn't feel like it's doing anything for him if he's just gonna feud with some old timers and a new guy.


He's not there yet but i'm sure he will be, at least AAA have been doing something with Him (Feud with Jack Evans, Octagon Jr and PdM) unlike Hijo del Fantasma. I think either Joaquin or Marisela still don't trust enough on him but who knows

By the way, Here's Latest AAA Worldwide TV Episode from Arena Naucalpan: 






* Dinastia, Faby Apache & Niño Hamburguesa vs Mini Psycho Clown, Taya & El Apache
* Octagon Jr, Drago & Fenix vs Averno, Chessman & Ricky Marvin
* Garza Jr, Jack Evans & La Parka vs Pentagon Jr, Taurus & Villano IV
- Noti AAA: AAA on Museo Numismatico (AAA Coins), Los Xinetez Promo, Pentagon Jr Promo about Rey de Reyes, Texano Jr Promo About his match versus Mesias on RdR
* Dr Wagner Jr, El Mesias & Texano Jr vs Psycho Clown, Monster Clown & Murder Clown


----------



## Corey

Ultimo Guerrero & Cibernetico are about to have their first ever singles match: http://www.clarosports.com/en-vivo02/


----------



## USAUSA1

Surprise cibernetico can bend like that.


----------



## Corey

Cibernetico looks like one lazy bastard. That wasn't good.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

No surprise Ciber vs UG was awful. It's a short list of workers worse than Johnny Gargano and Cibernetico is on it.


----------



## Stetho

MR-Bolainas said:


> He's not there yet but i'm sure he will be, at least AAA have been doing something with Him (Feud with Jack Evans, Octagon Jr and PdM) unlike Hijo del Fantasma. I think either Joaquin or Marisela still don't trust enough on him but who knows
> 
> By the way, Here's Latest AAA Worldwide TV Episode from Arena Naucalpan:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Dinastia, Faby Apache & Niño Hamburguesa vs Mini Psycho Clown, Taya & El Apache
> * Octagon Jr, Drago & Fenix vs Averno, Chessman & Ricky Marvin
> * Garza Jr, Jack Evans & La Parka vs Pentagon Jr, Taurus & Villano IV
> - Noti AAA: AAA on Museo Numismatico (AAA Coins), Los Xinetez Promo, Pentagon Jr Promo about Rey de Reyes, Texano Jr Promo About his match versus Mesias on RdR
> * Dr Wagner Jr, El Mesias & Texano Jr vs Psycho Clown, Monster Clown & Murder Clown


Pretty fun show once again. The match with Octagon Drago and Fenix was great quality.

I think it's not fair to critize Pentagon booking at the moment when he's almost everywhere on the shows. Sure he's not the megachampion but that doesn't make him poorly used.


----------



## Corey

Caristico apparently suggested himself that he face La Mascara in a mask match at the Anniversary show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzaZmhKZEDw

Dragon Lee vs. Barbaro Cavernario happened a few days ago in Arena Coliseo. I'm depressed by how much happens in that arena that hasn't seen the light of day yet. Still waiting on Guerrero/Atlantis and Dorada/Casas too.

Bunch of CMLL guys are gonna be in the Chicago area for a show literally tonight if anyone lives around there: http://thecubsfan.com/cmll/events/posters/00052000/00052947_00018560.png



I ♥ KEMONITO;58346961 said:


> No surprise Ciber vs UG was awful. It's a short list of workers worse than Johnny Gargano and Cibernetico is on it.


See, I've never even seen Cibernetico wrestle so I had no idea what to expect. At least now I know.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

I want World Cup 2, so I can see EC3, Drew Galloway, and Jeff Hardy eviscerate the competition.

No really, that would be so sick.


----------



## Corey

Dorada vs. Cavernario from Puebla in a little while: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urqv8Gx98vA

EDIT: Those two are nutty and that was a hell of a lot of fun. CMLL having a great year. *** 3/4

I'm almost certain this woman was pregnant:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/714675617669771264


----------



## Corey

Wagner gets his title shot and there's apparently a new Bengala.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Wonder Who will be the Luchador Sorpresa? it's a rudo so perhaps Pagano or one of the Tijuana guys?

They bring back Atomic Boy, Mari Apache and Soul Rocker, good to see that, more work for them. Hope they also continue Venum-Apache Feud
Now with Sexy Star, Goya Kong not appearing on AAA will mean more Opportunities to La Hiedra, Lady Shani and Maravilla 
Wonder Who will also be the new bengala? Hope it's someone of the size of Marvin, because it would look weird if it's someone taller than him, probably can be either one of the guys who have been working openers, house shows. Glad also to see Argenis and Octagon Jr higher on the card


----------



## xsw1

Corey said:


> Wagner gets his title shot and there's apparently a new Bengala.


Or a new Marvin. >

They shouldnt have Familia teaming up with regular rudos so soon, or ever, else they're just more regular rudos... "surprise" luchador is always done in Mexico City, and usually "hinting" at someone jumping from CMLL... Terrible? Sounds the most likely, been for years and has never happened, dunno... Maybe Ciber because, well, he already worked ArMex so what's left for him?

Maybe Silver Kain, or Hijo del Fantasma if he comes to his senses. Or Taurus. Garza Jr still there... best case scenario, AAA perros kick Pentagon Jr out of the group... maybe Garza joins them?

Weird that AAA has booked several straight all women tag matches, wonder if the comission is forcing its hand on the (with Hijo dF gone), or AAA don't want the intergender backlash for their international show they seem to be wanting to sell around... :surprise:


----------



## Stetho

https://twitter.com/MrGMSI_BCage/status/715204015840038912
Well I'm probably over-interpreting but now I fucking hope it's him.


----------



## Vårmakos

They had to get a new Bengala after that Kobra Moon debacle.

Also: I thought Garza Jr. was in NXT now?


----------



## Corey

I figured the surprise luchador was gonna be Fantasma so that he could feud with Octagon Jr. Who knows though.


----------



## Corey

Most of us will probably be busy with EVOLVE, CZW, or NXT Takeover: Dallas tonight or maybe you're actually in town for Wrestlemania weekend, BUT if you're not, tonight's show in Arena Mexico on Claro Sports. Really only interested in the lightning match myself.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Vårmakos said:


> They had to get a new Bengala after that Kobra Moon debacle.
> 
> Also: I thought Garza Jr. was in NXT now?


More like they thought Marvin was too fat. Garza jr must have not been impressive enough. Because he reallly isn't that good but gets by on his looks. 

CMLL tonight and Lucha Elite on before it. Lucha Elite is said to be a hour and fifteenth minute show and I think they are doing 1 fall matches.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Latest AAA Worldwide Episode: AAA Rey de Reyes 2016 Part 1




- Intro Rey de Reyes with Perros del Mal (Pentagon Jr, Taya, Daga, Kahn del Mal and Joe Lider) and Tribute to Hijo del Perro Aguayo
* Octagon Jr, Faby Apache. Mascarita Sagrada, Pimpinela Escarlata vs Taurus, Taya, Mini Psycho Clown, Mamba
* Averno & Chessman vs Daga & Joe Lider vs Argenis & Australian Suicide [TLC Tag Team Championship Match]
+ El Mesias and Texano Jr road to Rey de Reyes
* El Mesias vs Texano Jr [AAA Megacampeonato Match]


----------



## Stetho

MR-Bolainas said:


> Latest AAA Worldwide Episode: AAA Rey de Reyes 2016 Part 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Intro Rey de Reyes with Perros del Mal (Pentagon Jr, Taya, Daga, Kahn del Mal and Joe Lider) and Tribute to Hijo del Perro Aguayo
> * Octagon Jr, Faby Apache. Mascarita Sagrada, Pimpinela Escarlata vs Taurus, Taya, Mini Psycho Clown, Mamba
> * Averno & Chessman vs Daga & Joe Lider vs Argenis & Australian Suicide [TLC Tag Team Championship Match]
> + El Mesias and Texano Jr road to Rey de Reyes
> * El Mesias vs Texano Jr [AAA Megacampeonato Match]


There's some crazy spots in the TLC ! Overall probably too messy to be a really good match tho. 
The main event was tasteless, especially when you already know who wins. 
It really doesn't feel like a big show, even the entrance ramp was lame :/


----------



## Corey

Wednesday's Elite show:

*CMLL ELITE (WED) 04/06/2016 Arena México*
1) Delta & Pegasso vs El Cuatrero & Sansón
2) Fuego, Tritón, Zumbi vs Imposible, Karonte Jr., Magnus
3) Dragón Lee & Valiente vs Argos & Magno (Chihuahua)
4) Atlantis vs La Máscara *[Liga Elite]*
5) Marco Corleone, Máximo Sexy, Toscano vs Cibernético, Mephisto, ***** Casas
6) Carístico vs Volador Jr. *[Liga Elite]*

Friday's show on Claro Sport has TWO singles matches!!! :mark:

*CMLL (FRI) 04/08/2016 Arena México*
1) Magnus & Robin vs Akuma & Espíritu *****
2) Lluvia, Marcela, Skadi vs Dalys, Reyna Isis, Zeuxis
3) Cavernario, Felino, Mr. Niebla vs Rey Cometa, Stuka Jr., Titán
4) Ángel de Oro *©* vs La Máscara *[CMLL LH]*
_6th defense, first since August_
5) Dragón Lee, Máscara Dorada, Mistico vs Euforia, Gran Guerrero, Último Guerrero
6) Rush vs Marco Corleone

I haven't checked to see if all these matches are in full or not, but here's Elite's first show with Rush vs. Lashley vs. Dorada vs. Xtreme Tiger:


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Brian Cage Returns to AAA! (And with his Trump Shirt)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/717118938530754561
Also Marisela Peña announced next TV Taping Lineup (04/18 Leon)

AAA TV Tapings after Rey de Reyes (By far)

04/08 Gimnasio Juan de la Barrera, Cd. Mexico









04/18 Domo de la Feria, Leon


----------



## Stetho

Hahaha, I called it !
The return of Angelico is a cool news !


----------



## shlegglete

What do people think of Psycho Clown as a worker?


----------



## Rah

I don't think he's great, and I'm not a fan of Psycho Circus trios, all that much, but there's no denying he can bring it, at times. I'd wager his apuesta match against Texano at Triplemania 2014 is his career match, and the two are so much fun in that. I honestly recall myself being the lowest rating on the match, but it got a lot of very high/MotYC praise in this thread. He takes a good beating, and can be a fired up babyface that electrifies the crowd. I'd take Rockstar Spud (is that even a fair comparison) in a heart beat, but I wouldn't say no to a singles match from Psycho.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I second that. Psycho is not great by any means. He does however have good chemistry with Texano. Then you could start asking if it is really Texano making him look good but, the triplemania match between them two was great. Psycho is charismatic and the clowns are super over in general. He does the same match most of the time. Honestly Monsther Clown is a better worker and he moves like he has broomsticks for legs. I don't know what would be a fair comparison... Konnan?

The big news if you haven't heard was the return of LA PARK!!!






He is in the lucha elite tournament. Said to be 33 weeks long or, the tv contract is for that many weeks?
Rush vs LA Park is back on the books.


----------



## Corey

Manny Andrade (La Sombra) worked a match against Austin Aries at an NXT show tonight. How cool is that? No way anyone could've predicted that match would ever happen.


----------



## Rah

Super crazy what matches WWE are/can run, now. Busick/Sombra is a great 3 minutes if you can find their matches, and SAMI ZAYN vs LA SOMBRA was the match you never knew could happen but did! :maury at Sombra being given Shad Gaspard's theme music, though.


----------



## Rah

Corey said:


> Casas/Dorada happened last Tuesday, so technically I was kinda right on the date.  Cubsfan posted something saying he thinks Guadalajara TV is airing a repeat this week so he's not sure if/when it will air. Hoping it does sometime.
> 
> Saw Dorada/Mephisto, thought it was great. Keep up with the thread Rah! :lol







:sk


----------



## Corey

Rah comes through in the clutch again! :mark:

SO much wrestling I need to watch, lucha especially to catch up on. Angel De Oro vs. La Mascara title match & Rush vs. Marco on Claro Sports tonight. (Y)


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

If anybody wants to watch Azteca Lucha Elite before the arena mexico show on claro use this stream @7:00 pm central http://tv-envivo.net/azteca-7-en-vivo-por-internet.html


----------



## Corey

^^ Atlantis vs. La Mascara & Caristico vs. Voldaor Jr. on that tonight. (Y)

Hey KEMONITO (idk how to tag your name), did you ever see Dorada vs. Cavernario from Puebla? Don't recall reading any thoughts on it in here other than my own and I'm pretty sure you'll love it.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I got the time wrong it actually was on at 6 and I missed the show. I'm sure it will make it to youtube. The last one did. So sorry. It was that damn daylight savings time messing with me.

Yes, I saw Cavernario vs Dorada and I thought it was great. Better than Dorada vs Mephisto, though I did like Cavernario vs Titan more.


----------



## Corey

I ♥ KEMONITO;58879225 said:


> I got the time wrong it actually was on at 6 and I missed the show. I'm sure it will make it to youtube. The last one did. So sorry. It was that damn daylight savings time messing with me.
> 
> Yes, I saw Cavernario vs Dorada and I thought it was great. Better than Dorada vs Mephisto, though I did like Cavernario vs Titan more.


I actually caught on to the time mishap and was able to watch the whole show. Caristico vs. Volador was pretty great. Lucha MOTYC for me (****). The one fall aspect made it much more enjoyable imo.

Makes me even more excited for tonight's show in about 45 minutes. :mark:

EDIT: The Elite show is being uploaded piece by piece on this channel as we speak. I'd recommend subscribing to them because it's HD. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCteHHOid_mkwm4SG7ZRZZkA/videos

EDIT x2: Someone else upped Volador/Caristico. Get on it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blvdYV7LPDo&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Corey

New champ! Another really great match on the night in Oro/Mascara. Mascara's heel work was great and Oro looked like a fantastic underdog who wouldn't quit and wouldn't let his own move be used against him. A bit torn on the rating because I wish Dragon Lee just would've stepped in and evened the odds with Rush, but the match was excellent so I've gotta go **** again.

This too! What a night for lucha libre.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/718636988652523520
EDIT: Man that semi-main 6-man was AWESOME. So much shit I've never seen before. What a match!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/718640588434726912


----------



## Corey

Triple post! Because the 2nd part of Rey de Reyes is up with the Trios Title match, Rey de Reyes final, and Wagner/Psycho. I have too much fucking wrestling to watch...

Sorry @MR-Bolainas I beat ya to it on this one.


----------



## Stetho

Corey said:


> Triple post! Because the 2nd part of Rey de Reyes is up with the Trios Title match, Rey de Reyes final, and Wagner/Psycho. I have too much fucking wrestling to watch...
> 
> Sorry @MR-Bolainas I beat ya to it on this one.


Pentagon Jr would be proud of both of you 0

Actually Liga Elite/Lucha Azteca shows looks super cool. Dunno, I just don't want to support them and their politic. 
Gonna try to watch the end of Rey de Reyes as soon as possible but yesterday's show already looks better than this "big event".


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Corey said:


> Triple post! Because the 2nd part of Rey de Reyes is up with the Trios Title match, Rey de Reyes final, and Wagner/Psycho. I have too much fucking wrestling to watch...
> 
> Sorry @MR-Bolainas I beat ya to it on this one.


 More Details:

Rey de Reyes Part 2

* Drago, Aerostar, Fenix vs El Zorro, Dark Cuervo, Dark Scoria [AAA Trios Championship]
(Mention Fenix as part of King of Trios and also as LU Champion)
* Pentagon Jr vs La Parka vs Villano IV [Rey de Reyes Final]
* Pentagon Jr Award Ceremony (Dedicates it to Hijo del Perro Aguayo) + a Surprise! (Nicho el Millonario, Damian 666, Halloween) + Pagano
+ Texano Jr vs El Mesias (Repeat)
* Dr. Wagner Jr vs Psycho Clown (Mano a Mano)

Also at yesterday's TV Taping they announced Rey Mysterio will return, also returned Angelico and Brian Cage and Hijo del Fantasma said on Twitter he is going back in a few weeks


----------



## Stetho

Well, well, well.
The trios matchs was fun, not much to say about it. Good to see los Xinetez acting like a serious team.
The RdR match was lame as fuck. The good point is La Parka may be the only tecnico able to get Pentagon booed (his Roman Reigns gear is nice btw), the bad point is that he sucks at everything. It was funny to see the crowd litterally throwing shit at Tirantes tho :rock4. 
I'm optimistic about the old Perro's return and now I'm just hoping for good hardcore matches.
Cage having return promos kinda surprise me. Won't complain if he returns directly in the main event scene.
The main event was just a nice little brawl. I expected more of it but it's obviously not the end of the feud and we're gonna have more matches with them, so :justsayin.


----------



## Corey

*ELITE (WED) 04/13/2016 Arena México
*
1) Estrellita & La Jarochita vs Dallys la Caribeña & Zeuxis
2) Dinamic Black, Jinzo, Metaleón vs Heddi Karaoui, Okumura, Raijin 
3) Ángel de Oro, Golden Magic, Súper Crazy vs Cavernario, Felino, Tiger
4) Extreme Tiger vs Último Guerrero *[Liga Elite]*
5) Argos & Carístico vs Dragón Lee & Rush
6) LA Park vs Cibernético *[Liga Elite]*

Assuming the last 3 matches will be on the TV episode. The main event will likely be awful. 

Next Friday's Claro Sports show looks skippable and will have 12 matches on it, but the CMLL Trios Titles are on the line in Puebla this Monday night:

Mistico, Valiente, & Volador Jr. (c) vs. Dragon Rojo Jr., Polvora, & Rey Escorpion


----------



## MR-Bolainas

This is what i call a ....


----------



## Vårmakos

YIKES


----------



## Stetho

Just fuckin die Octagon


----------



## dmgsdmgsdmgs

MR-Bolainas said:


> This is what i call a ....


DAMNNNNNNNNNNNN


----------



## Corey

In case you missed Volador/Caristico, which was fantastic:






Haven't watched this one yet.


----------



## Rah

Rather annoyed that Guerrero/Hechicero is up in full, but they cut bits from Cerebro/Hechicero. The latter looked great, the former is, well, it's Hechicero on the mat. He can take anyone to a good match with that. I'll finish it when I get a chance, but I did crack a smirk at Ultimo using a fan to hold Hechicero down only to crush the living shit out of said fan with a dive.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

You know Hechicero vs ***** Casas is booked for a show in Monterrey. So is Pagano vs Caifan and, I bet you Pagano vs Caifan will be uploaded first, complete, and sooner.

This is like a lucha dream match that happened within a match. LA Park vs Pentagon JR.


----------



## Rah

Guerrero/Hechicero is easily worth the time. It's a fun sprint that follows a juniors/Virus style lightning match (great matwork followed by some beautiful high spots). Hechicero looking to make his mark in the worker of the year discussion.




I ♥ KEMONITO;58985025 said:


> You know Hechicero vs ***** Casas is booked for a show in Monterrey. So is Pagano vs Caifan and, I bet you Pagano vs Caifan will be uploaded first, complete, and sooner.


How many guys are in the weird position Hechicero is in? He's not exactly doing much (relatively) in CMLL, yet he's so over and so loved on the indies that he's getting all these high profile, workrate matches against the top CMLL guys, anyway. I bet Hechicero/Casas won't even make tape. Like Hechicero/Solar/Guerrero Maya Jr vs Dinastia Navarro from 2015. Mexico. Fuckin' Mexico.


----------



## Corey

Speaking of not being able to find shit from Mexico, @Rah since you're the man for finding obscure shit, give me a shout if you ever come across these:

*NWA Welterweight Title:* Volador Jr. (c) vs. Mephisto (Arena Mexico 4/3)

*CMLL Lightweight Title:* Dragon Lee (c) vs. Barbaro Cavernario (Arena Coliseo Guadalajara 3/22) 

*NWA Middleweight Title:* Ultimo Guerrero (c) vs. Atlantis (Arena Coliseo Mexico City 3/12)


----------



## Rah

No dice on any of them. Usual suspects seem very quiet with regard to recording CMLL, lately, and it seems they're only there for Arena Mexico, now. Did they make TV? I'm more likely to find them, if they did (and Cubsfan missed them). Though that will involve some digging because nobody can accurately label videos anymore. :side:


----------



## Corey

Rah said:


> No dice on any of them. Usual suspects seem very quiet with regard to recording CMLL, lately, and it seems they're only there for Arena Mexico, now. Did they make TV? I'm more likely to find them, if they did (and Cubsfan missed them). Though that will involve some digging because nobody can accurately label videos anymore. :side:


Nah I don't think any have made TV yet. Nothing posted from cubsfan along the way.


----------



## Rah

I'm pretty sure Cubsfan doesn't get every CMLL show. If you want to get ahead, and not wait, some of those shows get listed as the main event (i.e. "Rush vs Caristico mano a mano lucha completa"). Princesa Dorada was at all of the shows you've mentioned, but she only uploaded videos of her son, Disturbio. You could hit her up on Youtube and see if she recorded the others for posterity's sake. It's not desperate. Promise. 

____






A nice little present for you guys, that should be done in the next couple hours. If it's not complete, lemme know. I spliced it together in the early hours without much sleep.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Heard Extreme Tiger is great in CMLL. Maybe TNA should bring in more luchadors for him to wrestle.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Latest AAA Worldwide TV available now:

AAA Worldwide from Mexico City Part 1






- Rey de Reyes 2016 Recap
- Texano Jr Promo about winning Megacampeonato, El Mesias promo about being American, Donald Trump Video, Brian Cage Returns (With his Trump Shirt), Mesias invites Texano to his new group
* Niño Hamburguesa, Ludxor, Venum, Atomic Boy vs El Apache, Mamba, Super Fly, Soul Rocker
* Drago, El Elegido, Bengala vs Chessman, Averno, Ricky Marvin
- Noti AAA: AAA Coins Ad, Halloween-Nicho El Millonario-Pagano-Damian Appear, Averno Promo about next Tag Team championship match, Ricky Marvin, AAA Social Networks, AAA Website Surprise (luchalibreaaa.com)
* La Parka, Octagon Jr, Garza Jr vs El Mesias, Brian Cage, Texano Jr.
- El Mesias Promo About Texano Jr, ask him why he is proud being mexican, he should support Americans. Cage and Mesias Attack Texano Jr, ends him with a Martinete. At the end people threw things at Mesias


----------



## Vårmakos

Slim Bengala looks cool.


----------



## El Capitan

Can we talk about spoilers in here? 'Cos I just read some and need to rant.


----------



## Corey

ELITE keeps on bringing the goods.


----------



## Vårmakos

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/721126020041031681
what in the motherest of all fucks have they done to sombra


----------



## Corey

Great Liga Elite match this week between Ultimo Guerrero & Xtreme Tiger. Nice exchanges on the mat in the early stages and then some excellent displays of power from Guerrero. Really didn't expect it to go as long as it did and the only thing holding it back was Tiger's timing being clearly off on a few situations that ended up looking weird. Big upset here though. *** 3/4


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

^ How about Ultimo Guerrero's selling in that one. Virtually none.


----------



## Corey

I ♥ KEMONITO;59069801 said:


> ^ How about Ultimo Guerrero's selling in that one. Virtually none.


Yeah in the last minute or two he must've forgotten how to.  Finish looked good though. I bought it as a surprise win.


----------



## Stetho

The AAA thing with Mesias being pro-Trump really is lame. Texano turning tecnico isn't a bad idea but this story is outdated and doesn't make sense.


----------



## Corey

Rush vs. Ultimo Guerrero on next Monday's Puebla show and Mascara Dorada vs. Mephisto in Arena Mexico next Tuesday. Don't really know why the 2nd one is happening since there's no title on the line, but I loved their match earlier in the year and it's the main event, so I'll check it out for sure.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Stetho said:


> The AAA thing with Mesias being pro-Trump really is lame. Texano turning tecnico isn't a bad idea but this story is outdated and doesn't make sense.


It is so lame. They are doing the same exact storyline Alberto had. This time it is being done for the "Lucha World Cup". It really does not seem special this time around unless they can get some big names in the tournament. I do get the feeling we will be seeing some guys repeat from the last cup. 

Recently I've been keeping track of CMLL but have not watched the shows live because I know they will not be very good. I make sure to catch Fridays live though. 

Today CMLL does an interview show. They have them every wednesday..CMLL Informa. This week is said to be special because it is the 100th show. Check twitter for the translations of said interviews. Starts at 4:00 central :wink2:


----------



## Vårmakos

Are they really doing Lucha World Cup after that disaster last year? plz dont


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Vårmakos said:


> Are they really doing Lucha World Cup after that disaster last year? plz dont


I think they really are. They will have to get some bigger names for this time around. Victoria has launched a lucha campaign featuring various luchadors on beer cans and bottle tops. They are a huge sponsor and the main reason last year's cup looked so good.

Like I said they are going to need names. Would be amazing to collaborate with CMLL but that will NEVER happen. So get that out of your heads. Texano is positioned as one of the top benefactors of this process. He is getting a huge push and he should. He is solid and is not a liability. No risk in losing him to wwe either.


----------



## Stetho

Vårmakos said:


> Are they really doing Lucha World Cup after that disaster last year? plz dont


Disaster ? I think it was a really cool event and I surely hope they'll have a new one with even more guys.


----------



## ArnDaddy

I liked the World Cup too.

Also, it looks like Dr Wagner Jr is appearing on a Mexican reality show called La Isla - Which I am sure will be amazing!


----------



## USAUSA1

Didn't last year event draw 17,000 fans?


----------



## Stetho

USAUSA1 said:


> Didn't last year event draw 17,000 fans?


Yes it did. But they build it pretty good. I hope this year they're not just gonna use the name as a pretext to have a shitty Mesias vs Texano.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Hope they can expand Lucha Libre World Cup and they can include more promotions and Women too, LLWC Qualifyings also start next week Latest AAA Worldwide TV Show Available Here:

AAA Worldwide from Ciudad de Mexico Part 2






* Faby Apache, Mary Apache & Maravilla vs La Hiedra, Lady Shani & Taya (Mary Apache is kind of Tweener and announcers emphasized a lot on La Hiedra too)
* Jack Evans, Australian Suicide & Argenis vs Pentagon Jr, Daga & Joe Lider (Angelico Returns and Pentagon Jr says Jack Evans is his next Target and Familia Fronteriza (Damian 666, Halloween, Pagano) Attack Again)
- Noti AAA: (AAA Coins Remainder, Explanation Mary Apache Situation, El Mesias and American/Trump Appreciation Group, AAA Worldwide MysterioMania & Akebono Show, AAA Website Launch)
* Dr. Wagner vs Psycho Clown [AAA Latinoamerican Championship Match]


----------



## Stetho

MR-Bolainas said:


> Hope they can expand Lucha Libre World Cup and they can include more promotions and Women too, LLWC Qualifyings also start next week Latest AAA Worldwide TV Show Available Here:
> 
> AAA Worldwide from Ciudad de Mexico Part 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Faby Apache, Mary Apache & Maravilla vs La Hiedra, Lady Shani & Taya (Mary Apache is kind of Tweener and announcers emphasized a lot on La Hiedra too)
> * Jack Evans, Australian Suicide & Argenis vs Pentagon Jr, Daga & Joe Lider (Angelico Returns and Pentagon Jr says Jack Evans is his next Target and Familia Fronteriza (Damian 666, Halloween, Pagano) Attack Again)
> - Noti AAA: (AAA Coins Remainder, Explanation Mary Apache Situation, El Mesias and American/Trump Appreciation Group, AAA Worldwide MysterioMania & Akebono Show, AAA Website Launch)
> * Dr. Wagner vs Psycho Clown [AAA Latinoamerican Championship Match]


Lady Shani got the Mortal Kombat look LU likes. I take her over Kobra Moon everyday.

Pentagon Jr carrying the huge RdR sword is a brand new level of badass, really. The trios match was fun. A show with Jack and Angelico is instantly better. The clown video after match is legit scary. Pagano officially won a new fan.

The main event is a really cool brawl ! Felt like a big match, where the RdR match failed to do it.

AAA is pretty fun without the old fucks and the bullshit racism thing. The new site looks waaaaay better too.


----------



## Vårmakos

This Tronald angle is an early contender for _Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic_.


----------



## Stetho

I wanted to start video editing and since AAA upload their shows on youtube I thought it was the perfect plan. So here's my video of the current Perros del Mal. Pretty happy with the result actually ! Any opinion is welcome :angel






Anyway it was fun to do.


----------



## Rah

Apparently Hechicero/Casas was a jawdroppingly good match (like you'd expect any different). I'll keep my eye out, because lord knows Noches De Colliseo would rather air Rey Demonio Jr.


----------



## Corey

Holy shit looks who's working for ROH this weekend!


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Stetho said:


> I wanted to start video editing and since AAA upload their shows on youtube I thought it was the perfect plan. So here's my video of the current Perros del Mal. Pretty happy with the result actually ! Any opinion is welcome :angel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway it was fun to do.


Good Video and editing, looked good and appeared all PDM Members

In other News Flamita has left AAA and Octagon JR Gimmick
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?....360716780654851.83751.100001495955582&type=3

Hope he doesn't end in Elite and truly stays independent as he says or return to Dragon Gate perhaps, and also IMO he left win Octagon with this but it's his decision.


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Flamita got put in a bad spot. Octagon Jr. was never going to work. Even less if he was supposed to be Pentagon Jr.s main rival. 
Good to see him leave and do more interesting things. I do think Elite would be a good move for him and eventually make it on to some CMLL shows.

No signs of Hechicero vs Casas on youtube.


----------



## ArnDaddy

@MR-Bolainas can you tell me what shows there are since Rey de Reyes? The Worldwide episode from D.F. , are there any other shows besides that? I can't seem to find any others on the AAA youtube channel.

Lucha World Cup is on the 5th June. Qualifiers on the 3rd. I really hope Ivelisse, Son of Havoc and Angelico are in the tournament as the Lucha Underground entry. No idea who could be the TNA team.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

ArnDaddy said:


> @MR-Bolainas can you tell me what shows there are since Rey de Reyes? The Worldwide episode from D.F. , are there any other shows besides that? I can't seem to find any others on the AAA youtube channel.


Arndaddy Since Rey de Reyes there have been 2 shows (DF Episode you mentioned) and one from Leon, Guanajuato which will be broadcasted this week and following one. Today there's also a show from Arena Xalapa, Veracruz and results are going to be in AAA's Twitter. Following TV Tapings are going to be in Orizaba on May 14 and June 03 in Puebla then LLWC



ArnDaddy said:


> Lucha World Cup is on the 5th June. Qualifiers on the 3rd. I really hope Ivelisse, Son of Havoc and Angelico are in the tournament as the Lucha Underground entry. No idea who could be the TNA team.


Perhaps, Matt Hardy, Robbie E and Eddie Edwards as they appeared at MysterioMania Wrestling Superstar show in Chile. Also Pro Wrestling Wave and OZ Academy were added so Women are going to be included too.


----------



## Stetho

They need more teams if they want it to seem like a World Cup. It would be a big miss not to have a team UK by now... A team Canada with Speedball and maybe Teddy Hart would be cool too.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Hope they can expand and include more promotions but i think it depends also on who can they work with

Also Latest AAA TV Episode: 

AAA Worldwide from Leon, Guanajuato Part 1






- Mesias and Cage Promo about Americans, Trump, Texano Jr
* Venum, Dinastia, Atomic Boy, Lanzelot vs Mamba, Super Fly, Soul Rocker, Mini Abismo ***** 
* Australian Suicide & Argenis vs Angelico & Jack Evans vs Daga & Joe Lider vs Taurus & Hijo del Pirata Morgan [1# Contender Tag Team Championship Match]
- Los Fronterizos (Pagano, Nicho el Millonario, Damian 666) Appear and attack Perros del Mal.
- Noti AAA: Marisela Peña and AAA Luchadores visit Teleton, Lucha Libre World Cup, Pentagon Jr and Fenix at Akebono Show and MysterioMania show in Chile, Los Fronterizos Info, New Website (luchalibreaaa.com)
* La Parka & Dr. Wagner Jr vs Brian Cage & Mesias


----------



## ArnDaddy

Nicho is in desperate need of a sandwich...He looks like a pencil these days! I can't believe how skinny he looks.


----------



## Stetho

Those Fronterizos chairshots were definitely not PG :grin2:
Unfortunately the main event sucked. Just make Cage ask for a title match and make the feud about it. And leave La Parka in the closet ffs.


----------



## USAUSA1

Lucha Elite was fun this week.


----------



## Stetho

I think I'm gonna watch a bit more of it, since it always seems good. 
Video of Mascara Dorada/Xtreme Tiger here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHjzmUicYWA
And a video about La Sombra too 0 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui48hVGIxQ0

According to the WON the World Cup will be on PPV in the United States. Super cool news.


----------



## Corey

Volador Jr. was announced as an entrant in this year's NJPW Best of the Super Juniors Tournament. He's in the same block as Ricochet & Will Ospreay! :mark:


----------



## Koyomi




----------



## USAUSA1

Can't wait to go home and watch that match.


----------



## cablegeddon

Stetho said:


> They need more teams if they want it to seem like a World Cup. It would be a big miss not to have a team UK by now... A team Canada with Speedball and maybe Teddy Hart would be cool too.


Agreed + the first year it was a really cool concept with all these promotions involved but now it feels so watered down when WWE is doing the cruiserweight tournament and NJPW have signed up so many great promotions for the Super J Cup in August.


----------



## Corey

Mephisto has all of a sudden gotten this big push and beat Dorada for the CMLL Welterweight Title last night. On a... Tuesday show??? I had no idea the match was happening.


----------



## dmgsdmgsdmgs

Corey said:


> Volador Jr. was announced as an entrant in this year's NJPW Best of the Super Juniors Tournament. He's in the same block as Ricochet & Will Ospreay! :mark:


SIIIIICCCCCK


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

So Luchablog on twitter said that he saw on WON that Josh Matthews will be commentating for the Lucha World Cup.

Have fun with that guys. Will be the most generic broadcast ever.

But it means that TNA has a team again!

Hoping for Lashley, Galloway, and EC3.


----------



## shlegglete

World Cup was fun last year.

Does anyone know when cmll banned blood?


----------



## ArnDaddy

WesternFilmGuy said:


> So Luchablog on twitter said that he saw on WON that Josh Matthews will be commentating for the Lucha World Cup.


Disaster.

If thats true, I'll be watching the spanish broadcast.


----------



## USAUSA1

I like Hugo but Josh Matthews make Striker look like Jim Ross. Mike Tenay should be announcing.


----------



## Stetho

Josh Matthews is awful ! Why not Matt Striker anymore ?


----------



## ArnDaddy

Does anyone here know where I can find\watch\download the Santo documentary 'Detras de la mascara' that was made in 2013? I've looked everywhere!


----------



## Corey

Catching up on everything I've missed:

Rush vs. Ultimo Guerrero (Arena Puebla 4/25) - *** 3/4
Intense match. Probably the most "workrate" style I've ever seen Rush work (if that make sense ). Guerrero's having a great year imo.

Bobby Lashley vs. Ultimo Guerrero (Liga Elite 4/29) - *** 1/2
By god this was actually enjoyable! Lashley was great as the heel monster early on and the crowd was hot. 

Volador Jr. vs. Mascara Dorada (Liga Elite 4/29) - ****
Volador has been killing it in Liga Elite. MVP of the tournament so far and Dorada's been killing it in literally every singles match he's in!

*CMLL Welterweight Title:* Mascara Dorada (c) vs. Mephisto (Arena Mexico 5/3) *** 1/2 
I think this was a bit too reliant on nearfalls in the 3rd fall for my tastes, but still had plenty to like.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Latest AAA Worldwide TV:

AAA Worldwide from Leon Part 2





- Faby Apache talks about Mother's day
(Lucha Libre World Cup Promo added Zero1 and Akebono's Oudou)
* Faby Apache & Mary Apache vs Lady Shani & La Hiedra
* Drago, Octagon Jr & Aerostar vs Los Xinetez (El Zorro, Dark Cuervo & Dark Scoria)
- Noti AAA: Faby Apache & Mary Apache Situation, Pentagon Jr vs Fenix at Akebono's Oudou, Pagano and Los Fronterizos, Dorian Roldan talks about Lucha Libre World Cup.
* Pagano, Damian 666 & Nicho El Millonario vs Psycho Clown, Monster Clown vs Murder Clown

Finals and 3rd Place are on CDMX and a Team AAA is going to be Faby Apache, Mary Apache and a surprise wrestler.

Lucha Libre World Cup Teams confirmed:
-AAA
-Lucha Underground
-TNA
-NOAH
-Zero1
-Oudou
-WAVE
-Oz Academy


----------



## Stetho

Way too many Japanese


----------



## ArnDaddy

Seeing as they are all really old on youtube, I whipped up a Dr. Wagner Jr video with clips from the last 6 months - mainly in AAA and his battles with Psycho Clown but a few before that too. In case any one is interested.


----------



## Stetho

Damn I was working on something like that


----------



## ArnDaddy

Oh shit sorry mate, I was bored last night and decided to do one. Yours will be better than mine anyway, I just like to mess about and have fun doing them.


----------



## Stetho

MR-Bolainas said:


> Latest AAA Worldwide TV:
> 
> AAA Worldwide from Leon Part 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Faby Apache talks about Mother's day
> (Lucha Libre World Cup Promo added Zero1 and Akebono's Oudou)
> * Faby Apache & Mary Apache vs Lady Shani & La Hiedra
> * Drago, Octagon Jr & Aerostar vs Los Xinetez (El Zorro, Dark Cuervo & Dark Scoria)
> - Noti AAA: Faby Apache & Mary Apache Situation, Pentagon Jr vs Fenix at Akebono's Oudou, Pagano and Los Fronterizos, Dorian Roldan talks about Lucha Libre World Cup.
> * Pagano, Damian 666 & Nicho El Millonario vs Psycho Clown, Monster Clown vs Murder Clown
> 
> Finals and 3rd Place are on CDMX and a Team AAA is going to be Faby Apache, Mary Apache and a surprise wrestler.
> 
> Lucha Libre World Cup Teams confirmed:
> -AAA
> -Lucha Underground
> -TNA
> -NOAH
> -Zero1
> -Oudou
> -WAVE
> -Oz Academy


Pretty useless episode since nothing advances but the main event is fun. Legit hyped for the Pagana vs Psycho.


----------



## Rah

Where the hell did this one come from?!







*Lucha Memes (SUN) 05/15/2016*
4) Caifan vs Dr. Cerebro
5) Hechicero vs Virus


----------



## Corey

Gonna watch Rush/Casas very soon. I'm telling you, they're running some damn good matches on Liga Elite. Next week's show has Volador vs. Xtreme Tiger and Ultimo Guerrero vs. Caristico. The 2nd of those matches should be terrific if it's as good as their match from Arena Puebla.

CaraLucha is running Mascara Dorada vs. Flamita on 5/21 too. (Y)


----------



## USAUSA1

Lucha libre elite turning into my favorite promotion. Cmll answer to LU without the silliness. The production is super top notch too.


----------



## USAUSA1

Caristico vs UG main event lucha libre elite, Bucanero and Shocker will wrestle in Friday night main event. Literally four of my top ten all time luchadores. Even if the matches suck I will love it. Oh and mil Muertes main event luchaunderground. Make it Five of my top ten all time. 

Let's just hope Konnan don't mess up my week with his whining.


----------



## Rah

One-two punch for Casas. The old man's looking to be your worker of the year in 2016








Corey said:


> Gonna watch Rush/Casas very soon.


Tremendous performance from Casas, with some of the best selling I've seen in a while. Rush has a tendency to steamroll his opponents, and just pick up on offence when he wants to, and that was endemic in the final stretch, here, but this was a great compacted version of their feud. Fun stuff!


----------



## USAUSA1

Warrior Steel is the new Mr. Monday night


----------



## dmgsdmgsdmgs

Yo how can I watch LLE? Don't have TV Azteca. Want to catch that shit tomorrow


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

dmgsdmgsdmgs said:


> Yo how can I watch LLE? Don't have TV Azteca. Want to catch that shit tomorrow


Elite gets shown an Azteca 7 the national channel signal that is over the air. Also it is shown on Azteca Deportes. A sports channel from the same network. You should be able to find Azteca 7 streams no problem. The show is on at 11:30 pm on Fridays. I have been watching live the past 3 weeks after Arena Mexico on Claro Sports streams. 

Elite is the best lucha show out there right now. You are pretty much guaranteed a great show every week. They haven't uploaded the undercard matches. They only show highlights on the show. Bummer. Because the trios match from last week with Impossible, Jinzo, and other IWRG guys looked phenomenal. Looked like a clear cup MOTYC.


----------



## Corey

dmgsdmgsdmgs said:


> Yo how can I watch LLE? Don't have TV Azteca. Want to catch that shit tomorrow


You can catch it at this link every friday night at 11:30 PM Central, 12:30 AM Eastern. http://tv-envivo.net/azteca-7-en-vivo-por-internet.html

Also all of the shows are uploaded in easy to watch pieces here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCteHHOid_mkwm4SG7ZRZZkA


----------



## kimino

Loving the matches from Elite, but god! i hate Azteca announcers, it would be perfect if they somehow hired Riaño, Magadan and Dr. Morales like old CMLL times, also miss Mucha Crema Gaytan being ring announcer in CMLL


----------



## USAUSA1

Lucha Elite upload the shows themselves the following day. I love that lucha companies are taking advantage of youtube and modern technology. You'll be surprise how many debates I've been in with US indy promoters that refuse to put their stuff on youtube but would rather use Vimeo or Ustream,SMH.


----------



## Stetho

kimino said:


> Loving the matches from Elite, but god! i hate Azteca announcers, it would be perfect if they somehow hired Riaño, Magadan and Dr. Morales like old CMLL times, also miss Mucha Crema Gaytan being ring announcer in CMLL


Actually I prefer those to the ones of CMLL and AAA. Maybe I'm the only one.
The matches and the production in Elite are really cool but I can't help feeling the lack of depth.


----------



## kimino

Stetho said:


> Actually I prefer those to the ones of CMLL and AAA. Maybe I'm the only one.
> The matches and the production in Elite are really cool but I can't help feeling the lack of depth.


Or maybe is just me (lol), another thing i cant stand is the azteca logo in the ring, it distracts me a couple of times in the match


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

I like that one announcer for Elite. He is really enthusiastic. The others I believe were rejected football announcers that are given more work..and Shocker. 

Would have been great if they got the Tercera Caida guys. (now MasLucha)


----------



## Stetho

kimino said:


> Or maybe is just me (lol), another thing i cant stand is the azteca logo in the ring, it distracts me a couple of times in the match


Is it really worse than the huge Cemento Fortaleza ad ? >

Big disappointment with the Victoria World Cup conference...


----------



## kimino

Stetho said:


> Is it really worse than the huge Cemento Fortaleza ad ? >
> 
> Big disappointment with the Victoria World Cup conference...


Hahah, who knows, its not that i dislike, the victoria/cmll, corona and other logos have never been a problem for me, but Azteca's logo is Ugly


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

Akebono! Awesome!


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Official Info about Lucha Libre World Cup here: http://www.luchalibreaaa.com/noticias/conferencia-prensa-lucha-libre-victoria-world-cup-2016/ BUT they still have not announced all wrestlers

By Far LLWC Teams:

*Men's Division*

Team AAA (Pentagón Jr, El Texano Jr, Winner of Ricky Marvin vs Nicho el Millonario vs Hijo del Pirata Morgan 
Team NOAH (Taiji Ishimori, Naomichi Marufuji & Maybach Taniguchi
Team Ōdō and Zero1 (Masato Tanaka, Akebono & Ikuto Hidaka
Team Mexico Leyendas (Canek, La Parka , TBA) 
Team Mexico International (Rey Mysterio Jr, TBA, TBA)	
Team TNA (TBA)
Team Lucha Underground (TBA)
Team Resto del Mundo (Wrestlers from Puerto Rico, UK and South Africa)

*Women's Division*

Team AAA (Faby Apache, Mari Apache & Lady Apache)
Team Japan (Oz Academy & WAVE) (Aja Kong, Yuki Miyazaki, Sumire Natsu)
Team USA?
Team Canada?


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Great match. Watch it brothers.


----------



## Stetho

MR-Bolainas said:


> Official Info about Lucha Libre World Cup here: http://www.luchalibreaaa.com/noticias/conferencia-prensa-lucha-libre-victoria-world-cup-2016/ BUT they still have not announced all wrestlers
> 
> By Far LLWC Teams:
> 
> *Men's Division*
> 
> Team AAA (Pentagón Jr, El Texano Jr, Winner of Ricky Marvin vs Nicho el Millonario vs Hijo del Pirata Morgan
> Team NOAH (Taiji Ishimori, Naomichi Marufuji & Maybach Taniguchi
> Team Ōdō and Zero1 (Masato Tanaka, Akebono & Ikuto Hidaka
> Team Mexico Leyendas (Canek, La Parka , TBA)
> Team Mexico International (Rey Mysterio Jr, TBA, TBA)
> Team TNA (TBA)
> Team Lucha Underground (TBA)
> Team Resto del Mundo (Wrestlers from Puerto Rico, UK and South Africa)
> 
> *Women's Division*
> 
> Team AAA (Faby Apache, Mari Apache & Lady Apache)
> Team Japan (Oz Academy & WAVE) (Aja Kong, Yuki Miyazaki, Sumire Natsu)
> Team USA?
> Team Canada?


Not cool. Once again 3 teams Mexico, 2 USA, 2 Japan ? It's not what I want when you sell me a "World Cup". Don't tell me it's hard to have at least a good team UK today. And having Porto Rico as "rest of the world" when arguably your biggest story is about a Porto Rican saying he's american is plain stupid.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Stetho said:


> Not cool. Once again 3 teams Mexico, 2 USA, 2 Japan ? It's not what I want when you sell me a "World Cup". Don't tell me it's hard to have at least a good team UK today. And having Porto Rico as "rest of the world" when arguably your biggest story is about a Porto Rican saying he's american is plain stupid.


Yeah It's not truly a world cup but i'm not sure who they can work with, they sure must have include RevPro, Progress, ICW or any other UK Promotion but Roldans are booking now so i'm not sure if they are aware of the potential there, when they book "La parka" as legend.

Mr 450 could take a spot as the puerto rico wrestler but he's a Friend of Konnan and he tweeted some time ago that he wasn't going to return to AAA.


----------



## Stetho

MR-Bolainas said:


> Yeah It's not truly a world cup but i'm not sure who they can work with, they sure must have include RevPro, Progress, ICW or any other UK Promotion but Roldans are booking now so i'm not sure if they are aware of the potential there, when they book "La parka" as legend.
> 
> Mr 450 could take a spot as the puerto rico wrestler but he's a Friend of Konnan and he tweeted some time ago that he wasn't going to return to AAA.


I'd have something like this :
- *Team Mexico* : Psycho for his popularity, Pentagon for his popularity, Texano for the AAA storyline
- *Team Japan*, I don'k know since I don't follow any of this company
- *Team USA* : Ethan Carter, Jeff Hardy, and Brian Cage for the AAA storyline
- *Team Canada* : Teddy Hart, Speedball, Davey Boy Smith Jr via the NOAH deal
- *Team UK* : Mark Andrews, Drew Galloway, Marty Scurll
- *Team (rest of) Europe* : Tommy End, Big Van Walter, someone from WxW or a french TNA guy
- *Team Southern Hemisphere* : Australian Suicide, PJ Black (Angelico if not injured), someone else, maybe a random Samoan
- *Team Leyendas* (just to make it 8) : Rey, Wagner, and a decent worker (means NO Parka)

May looks like random fantasy booking but I think all of this names aren't impossible to have for 1 (well, 2 actually) night. Pretty sure guys like Marty Scurll or Tommy End would be glad to participate in a big event in front of almost 20 000 people in a new country, just give em a call.

I'll still watch the show I think but damn, seems like everytime AAA do one step forward they do a silly dance backward immediately after.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Latest AAA Worldwide TV Episode: Xalapa Part 1






- Mesias Promo w/Cage about how he dislikes Mexico and love Trump and USA, Explains Cage Injury, He Wants a Megacampeonato Rematch. Texano Jr says he Doesn't Care about Trump and Mexico is the best, then La Parka makes the save and wants a Mano a Mano vs Mesias, Texano Jr makes an Open Challenge to any American who wants to face him.


Spoiler: wrestler at Orizaba Taping is



Pretty sure is Hernandez due he is booked in Mexico later and the shadow is the same pic than him


* Argenis & Australian Suicide vs Averno & Chessman [AAA Tag Team Championship]
* Texano Jr vs Garza Jr vs Taurus [LLWC Qualifying]
- Noti AAA: LLWC Info confirms Blue Demon Jr as Third Mexico Leyendas Wrestler, La Parka Articles on Newspaper, Latest TV Tapings Info, AAA Website. 
* La Parka vs El Mesias (Mano a Mano)

Next TV Taping: May 29, 2016 Pachuca, MX and Verano de Escandalo is going to be on June 19, 2016 Monterrey


----------



## USAUSA1

Hernandez? Wth aaa


----------



## Stetho

MR-Bolainas said:


> Latest AAA Worldwide TV Episode: Xalapa Part 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mesias Promo w/Cage about how he dislikes Mexico and love Trump and USA, Explains Cage Injury, He Wants a Megacampeonato Rematch. Texano Jr says he Doesn't Care about Trump and Mexico is the best, then La Parka makes the save and wants a Mano a Mano vs Mesias, Texano Jr makes an Open Challenge to any American who wants to face him.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: wrestler at Orizaba Taping is
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty sure is Hernandez due he is booked in Mexico later and the shadow is the same pic than him
> 
> 
> * Argenis & Australian Suicide vs Averno & Chessman [AAA Tag Team Championship]
> * Texano Jr vs Garza Jr vs Taurus [LLWC Qualifying]
> - Noti AAA: LLWC Info confirms Blue Demon Jr as Third Mexico Leyendas Wrestler, La Parka Articles on Newspaper, Latest TV Tapings Info, AAA Website.
> * La Parka vs El Mesias (Mano a Mano)
> 
> Next TV Taping: May 29, 2016 Pachuca, MX and Verano de Escandalo is going to be on June 19, 2016 Monterrey


Cool show, great crowd !
I think the Texano/Mesias thing is starting to pick up. Surprisingly enough, El Mesias is great in this role. I burst out laughing when I saw him throwing tortillas with Cage looking at him with a smile :zayn3
The TT match is great even with the classic referee thing. I'd usually cringe to a main event with La Parka but it's short enough and he's making his opponent look good. I know it may be dangerous but damn, I love when the crowd throw shit in the ring.


----------



## Rah

Virus/Hechicero finally happened.

It was superb yet superb is too much of a letdown knowing my expectations of what they could have done. As someone as high as I am on Virus, I'm starting to tire of his formula now that he is getting indy bookings against actual talents. His title and lightning formula works against spotmonkeys who need to be plugged into matches like a stitch in a tapestry, but it disappoints me to see him do that against someone like Hechicero especially when the smile he had prematch just showed how in love he was with the prospect of working such a talent, at last. 

The matwork is excellent. Hechicero has great innovative spots to excite you when Virus breaks away from the mat but this needed to be Hechicero's formula than Virus. Both are technical wizards but Hechicero holds advantage in power spots and working his offence into places you least expect it. The way he hit the turnbuckle enzugiri was nasty and if the ropehung knee had ended the match it would be best finish of 2016 hands down. 

The problem is that I wanted to see the story follow a struggle of ideology. They both excel on the mat, but Virus does that as his bread and butter. Trying to keep Hechicero down and into counters would have been a great foil for Hechicero to work his beautiful counters into and then place his offence from. There were spots that showed this, and those are some of the best wrestling I've seen in a long time, but a Virus lightning formula is too short to let that story breathe. They go home too early and it hurts the flow.

Check it out, though.


----------



## december_blue

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/733449576473079809


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO




----------



## Stetho

At this point it's hard to chose a worst lineup than this one.


----------



## ArnDaddy

Mex International, Lucha Underground and Rest of the World teams really need to deliver here.

I'd get Wagner on the Mex team but I don't know who else they could have as a 3rd man? 
Lucha Underground I'd guess something like Cage, Mundo, Mack (Puma wont be available, Mil and Cuerno obviously can't)
Team Rest of the World, Maybe Angelico, Jack Evans, Australian Suicide? Unless they try to fit Drew McIntyre in.

USA women I have no idea. I'd say Cheerleader Melissa?

I think they will crowbar El Mesias into Rest of the World despite his angle with Cage at the minute. Its a shame the trio of Fenix, Drago, Aerostar couldn't represent LU or AAA as that is a very exciting team that has worked well as a trio in the past.


----------



## USAUSA1

Team Rest of the World will probably be Galloway,Mesias and Suicide. Hoping team LU is Drago,Fenix, and Aerostar but of course Mundo will be on Team LU.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

http://www.luchalibreaaa.com/noticias/resto-del-mundo-lucha-libre-victoria-world-cup-2016/ 

































Just Announced! Team Resto del Mundo will be integrated by Rockstar Spud, Apolo and Mil Muertes! If Mil wrestles at LLWC, it would be first time that a LU Gimmick wrestles outside Lucha Underground!.

And i hope Aerostar, Drago and Fenix can get a title shot at Verano de Escandalo if they defeat Los Xinetez at TV Taping on Pachuca (05/31)


----------



## Corey

That's one god awful team. It loos like they're just pulling completely random names out of a hat. :lol


----------



## Stetho

Wait what ? Mil Muertes ? And he's announced from actually nowhere ?
Come on AAA, I like your weeklies but THIS is just garbage. You said it will be better than last year (which was good) but instead you just fucked up your concept so hard...


----------



## USAUSA1

Very pleased to see Mil Muertes in Mexico. We have to see how the matches play out. Talent wise, might be slightly better than last year.


----------



## Corey

They missed an awesome opportunity. Should've put Mesias on Team AAA and Muertes on Team Rest of the World. :lol


----------



## ArnDaddy

What the fuck.That is a terrible team, And "Mil Muertes" is meant to be Mexican anyway! Just put Mil on the Lucha Underground team or El Mesias in the Rest of the world team if you are going to have him in there.

Another poor team. IF your going to use someone like Spud might as well go with Zema Ion or Tigre Uno who have at least worked a lucha style.

Right now the womens bracket looks more interesting that the mens but fingers crossed the last two teams announced are decent.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/732395451069038592
They Just announced Team Mexico International!


































Rey Mysterio Jr, Dr. Wagner Jr and Dragon Azteca Jr, another LU Character to debut outside the temple!


----------



## ArnDaddy

Easily the best team so far...

Any idea when the Lucha Underground team will be announced?


----------



## Stetho

Wow, this one is actually awesome !
I thought LU original characters couldn't be used outside of LU because of legal issues. If it's not the case I'm really looking forward to see some of them in AAA !


----------



## USAUSA1

Rey Horuz deserves it.


----------



## december_blue

US Women's Team apparently.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/733818234005135360


----------



## USAUSA1

Strong female team

With this being a two day event and having a strong financial backer , will this event overtake Triplemania in years to come as the most important event of the year?


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Latest AAA TV Episode:

AAA Worldwide Xalapa Part 2






* Lady Shani & Taya vs Faby Apache & Mary Apache
* Pentagon Jr vs Daga vs Joe Lider [LLWC Qualifying]
- Noti AAA: LLWC Teams Info Womens, KC Spinelli Promo, Fronterizos Feuds
* Psycho Circus (Psycho Clown, Monster Clown & Murder Clown) vs Los Fronterizos (Pagano, Damian 666 & Nicho el Millonario)


----------



## Rah

If you're not following dataintcash, then you really should be. Look at these never before seen matches he's still dropping for us. Earliest Fuerza and ***** matches online!


----------



## ArnDaddy

Team Lucha Underground is Cage, Mundo, Chavo. I guess they went Chavo over Fenix, Drago, Jack Evans etc because they are AAA talents too, but it's still a terrible choice (in keeping with the tournament). Should have just put Mil in this team if he's in the tournament, instead of on the team he is on, especially as they will go out in round 1.

Mex International my faves to win it, followed by Team AAA and then Team LU. Team TNA will probably make the semi as well.


----------



## Stetho

MR-Bolainas said:


> Latest AAA TV Episode:
> 
> AAA Worldwide Xalapa Part 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Lady Shani & Taya vs Faby Apache & Mary Apache
> * Pentagon Jr vs Daga vs Joe Lider [LLWC Qualifying]
> - Noti AAA: LLWC Teams Info Womens, KC Spinelli Promo, Fronterizos Feuds
> * Psycho Circus (Psycho Clown, Monster Clown & Murder Clown) vs Los Fronterizos (Pagano, Damian 666 & Nicho el Millonario)


Loved the chaotic ending. WWE could never put a faction war like that because of their fear to do something which is actually violent. 
Still, Psycho Clown already took so many chairshots in his young carreer...
Daga with the Bengala mask and the "No es Bengala he..." :clap


----------



## ArnDaddy

The ending was nuts. Would be well up for PDM vs Los Fronterizos as Verano de Escandalo.


----------



## Stetho




----------



## MR-Bolainas

Latest AAA Worldwide TV available here!:

AAA Worldwide Orizaba Part 1





- Texano Jr explains why he's changed his attitude, he loves Mexico and proud of being Mexican. El Zorro plus Los Xinetez, want Texano to join American/Trump Group then they attack him and La Parka Makes the save but Texano doesn't want Parka's help
* El Elegido, Niño Hamburguesa & Bengala vs Taurus, Dark Cuervo & Dark Scoria
* Averno & Chessman vs Australian Suicide & Argenis [AAA Tag Team Championship Match] (Tag Team Champions make an Open Challenge after the match and Faby & Mary Apache answer but Champions tell them to go home and mop the floor instead)
- Noti AAA: Lucha Libre World Cup Tickets (iPPV, Mexico Legends Team and La Parka not being a Legend), AAA staff visits La Magia de un Deseo Foundation, Damian 666 injures Kahn del Mal)
* La Parka & Texano Jr vs El Zorro & Hernandez (he was the Luchador Sorpresa)


----------



## Stetho

MR-Bolainas said:


> Latest AAA Worldwide TV available here!:
> 
> AAA Worldwide Orizaba Part 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Texano Jr explains why he's changed his attitude, he loves Mexico and proud of being Mexican. El Zorro plus Los Xinetez, want Texano to join American/Trump Group then they attack him and La Parka Makes the save but Texano doesn't want Parka's help
> * El Elegido, Niño Hamburguesa & Bengala vs Taurus, Dark Cuervo & Dark Scoria
> * Averno & Chessman vs Australian Suicide & Argenis [AAA Tag Team Championship Match] (Tag Team Champions make an Open Challenge after the match and Faby & Mary Apache answer but Champions tell them to go home and mop the floor instead)
> - Noti AAA: Lucha Libre World Cup Tickets (iPPV, Mexico Legends Team and La Parka not being a Legend), AAA staff visits La Magia de un Deseo Foundation, Damian 666 injures Kahn del Mal)
> * La Parka & Texano Jr vs El Zorro & Hernandez (he was the Luchador Sorpresa)


Why are the shows getting shorter and shorter ? :heyman4

Taurus is growing on me and this new Bengala surely is better. Maybe the character could come back to LU now.
The TT match was not as good as the last one but having the Apaches challenging definitely is fun. Looking forward to it.
I have nothing against Hernandez himself, he's a cool heel. But having this story growing with a bigger group of Trump fans involved doesn't appeal me at all.

Next week is Pagano vs Psycho :heyman3


----------



## Stetho

CMLL International Grand Prix will have Kushida, Elgin and Tama Tonga. This is a pretty cheap shot at AAA World Cup but those names are definitely better than Apolo or Eli Drake.


----------



## USAUSA1

Other than Kushida, aaa world cup foreigners shits all over that. Elgin or Cage, Ec3 or Tama, come on now.


----------



## Stetho

Don't know, the guests doesn't really appeal me (I don't count Cage as a guest) but maybe it's just because I don't know anyone from NOAH.


----------



## december_blue

So much talent! Looks like a class picture though lol.


----------



## CretinHop138

Stetho said:


> CMLL International Grand Prix will have Kushida, Elgin and Tama Tonga. This is a pretty cheap shot at AAA World Cup but those names are definitely better than Apolo or Eli Drake.


I'd rather watch the likes of EC3/Eli Drake than Tama Tonga. The foreign talent AAA have brought in here smokes that. Will they have to job to Ultimo Guerrero?


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

I guess I threw in the $25. Expected it to be less, but can't complain. My only hope is that Team EC3 doesn't face Team AAA in the first rd. EC3 should at least get a bronze medal.


----------



## Stetho

CretinHop138 said:


> I'd rather watch the likes of EC3/Eli Drake than Tama Tonga. The foreign talent AAA have brought in here smokes that. Will they have to job to Ultimo Guerrero?


I guess I'm the only person who likes Tama Tonga :lol


----------



## Rah

Tama Tonga had a great match with Rush a couple years back. Dude's fine.


----------



## Braylyt

Forgot this starts tonight :mark:. 

Quite a few interesting teams in this, though Mil Muertes alongside Rockstar Spud is a baffling choice...


----------



## Stetho

Yep, I'm still looking forward to tomorrow ! The atmosphere is surely gonna be fun but I hope the matches themselves will be great too.


----------



## ArnDaddy

I'm looking forward to it as well. Gonna get the IPPV on VOD so I don't have to stay up late in Europe. Its available for the next 10 days and will be available straight after the show ends.

As for the guys that AAA and CMLL have brought in for this that don't usually appear, it is what it is. Neither has managed to get anyone particularly interesting except the LU guys who work on-off at AAA anyway and a few decent womens teams.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

How long are AAA shows? I know their TV shows have been getting shorter, but this event starts at 8/8:30, am I right to assume it will be over by 10:30?


----------



## Vårmakos

CretinHop138 said:


> I'd rather watch the likes of EC3/Eli Drake than Tama Tonga. The foreign talent AAA have brought in here smokes that. Will they have to job to Ultimo Guerrero?


Drake has never had anything that even remotely resembles a good match.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

CMLL is better than AAA, let's not kid ourselves. Looking from the outside, and TheCubsfan's analysis, AAA is a bigger mess than TNA. Even if CMLL is very conservative, at least they have an idea what the hell they are doing. And BTW, Isn't Lashley in CMLL right now? Way better than Eli Drake, Spud, and Tyrus in every aspect.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Tonight's Lucha Libre World Cup!

and Teams have been announced!

Men's
AAA Vs Ouduo – Zero1
Japón NOAH Vs Resto del Mundo
México Leyendas Vs USA Lucha Underground
México Internacional Vs USA TNA

Women's
México Vs USA
Japón Vs Canadá


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

That Tyrus/Mysterio spot is going to look so bad, and you know the spot I am talking about...


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

If EC3 only has one match it is a waste of my $25. I have no interest in a guy that breaks people's arms for particular reason.


----------



## WesternFilmGuy

I started the stream at 8:20, and the first match at 9:40...I guess I will catch the event later. Hope you guys enjoy it!


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Not sure if predictions or spoilers (Konnan's Twitter)...


----------



## MTheBehemoth

No Bono/Clown. God exists.


----------



## Corey

Anything I need to see from the last few weeks of Liga Elite? The last show I watched had Rush/Casas and Lashley/Guerrero, both of which were good.


----------



## ArnDaddy

I watched the World Cup qualifiers, All the right teams won the matches except for I expected Canada to go over Aja Kong's team. Most of the matches were fine, Team AAA vs Japan was the best of the bunch. 

I was watching the spanish feed, I think I am right in thinking there are 3rd\4th matches and the mens already-eliminated teams go into some kind of battle royal? Hopefully Mil wins that, but I would guess at Blue Demon Jr. maybe.

I really wanted the first match to go to overtime so I could see Fabi-Melissa for 5 mins.


----------



## Stetho

Nice show. Rockstar Spud was great :lol
They did a great job to advertize Lucha Underground, I didn't expect Azteca to get the final pin. Wagner was sooo over, more than Rey actually.
Team old fucks is out :cena6


----------



## I ♥ KEMONITO

Here's the bracket for today. The main sponsor Victoria wants to take the cup to Japan and US in the future. Both are still alive in the cup. I still think a Mexican team wins it so it would abide by the sponsor's campaign as a positive message to the Mexican people. 











Make sure to check out Caristico vs Mascara Dorada from this week's Lucha Azteca. You can find their shows uploaded onto youtube the next morning they air. Or you could stream the channel it's on and I can get you a link if you want to watch live. PM me.


----------



## Stetho

Talking about Elite, my new one :


----------



## ArnDaddy

I thought the Lucha Libre world cup was excellent, really enjoyed it. Some really good matches on the Sunday show.


----------



## Corey

Mephisto vs. Caristico for the CMLL Welterweight Title tonight in Puebla.

Cavernario vs. Rey Cometa for the other Welterweight Title on Friday on Claro Sports.

(Y)


----------



## kimino

While searching on youtube i found this match and watched it again after a couple of years, great stuff specially from panther


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Latest AAA Worldwide TV Episode Orizaba Part 2






* Murder Clown & Monsther Clown vs Daga & Joe Lider
* Ricky Marvin vs Nicho el Millonario vs Hijo del Pirata Morgan vs Psycho Clown [Lucha Libre World Cup Qualifying] (Psycho Clown requested to be in the match and is added by Marisela)
- Noti AAA: Lucha Libre World Cup Info 
* Pagano vs Psycho Clown [Hardcore Match]


----------



## Stetho

Pfiuu, so many things to watch...

Just finished the WC night 2. Fantastic atmosphere. I expected more from the women but otherwise I had exactly what I came looking for. Maybe a bit too much of LU advertising at some point but they're probably looking for the season 4 deal...
Dario running from the shit the crowd was trying was GOAT. Need some gifs on this ending.


----------



## ArnDaddy

This is cool!


----------



## Rah

We don't have a Puerto Rico/WWC thread, so I'll just dump this here

Mike Mendoza & El Cuervo vs. La Revolucion (WWC 3/6/2016) - This was really good when they were brawling across the arena. I must have come across like a Zandig soundbite to everyone around me while watching this as I kept screaming JESUS at almost every blow these guys took. From the punches, to the cane shots to the headbutts into the wall, it all looked super nasty. Once they hit the ring, though, it all came across all too cutesy. "Indy" is a good enough label for Mendoza/Cuervo in the finishing stretch, and their tag team moves probably came across as better ideas than in actual practice. They felt too weak in comparison to the violence that had escalated to the finishing run.

What came at the start, though, made me salivate for more Puerto Rican wrestling.


----------



## dmgsdmgsdmgs

Un rezo para mi Sombra









SUERTE!


----------



## Stetho

MR-Bolainas said:


> Latest AAA Worldwide TV Episode Orizaba Part 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Murder Clown & Monsther Clown vs Daga & Joe Lider
> * Ricky Marvin vs Nicho el Millonario vs Hijo del Pirata Morgan vs Psycho Clown [Lucha Libre World Cup Qualifying] (Psycho Clown requested to be in the match and is added by Marisela)
> - Noti AAA: Lucha Libre World Cup Info
> * Pagano vs Psycho Clown [Hardcore Match]


The first match is good. The second one is too short. The main event is too sloppy sometimes and lacks real construction but the part with the chairs is great (http://imgur.com/3cHMzef). 
With 53 minutes it just seemed like a succession of matches, no entrances and no segments. I hope they'll get back to more than one hour.


----------



## Corey

Ultimo Guerrero & Stuka Jr. had a really good title match a couple weeks back on a Tuesday show (5/31). Guerrero has to empty out everything in his arsenal. Top rope powerbomb, top rope gordbuster, reverse suplex from the top, gory special, etc. But none of those were even the finish! Loved the creativity in the end. Be sure to check it out if you missed it. I'm absolutely loving Guerrero this year. Starts at 1:45:00. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDUyPL47WYg

Rey Cometa beat Cavernario to win his title last night (I can't keep track of all these different belts so I'm ust gonna say title ). I got through the first two falls (which were great) and then my fucking internet cut out. I was clearly PISSED. Reading it was excellent so I'll be all over that as soon as it hits Youtube.

Caristico never got his title match with Mephisto last week because Mephisto was injured.  Hopefully saving it for sometime in the future though.

EDIT: Good match between Guerrero & Atlantis on Liga Elite this week. Didn't see the finish coming and it was a good thing in this case. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FU2jE7JQ1E


----------



## Braylyt

Apologies of this has already been asked but I've been ducking this thread for a week to not find out any World Cup results. Does anyone have a link to the event with English commmentary? I can only bear the Spanish rambling for so long.


----------



## Stetho

Braylyt said:


> Apologies of this has already been asked but I've been ducking this thread for a week to not find out any World Cup results. Does anyone have a link to the event with English commmentary? I can only bear the Spanish rambling for so long.


Couldn't find it in English. There's only the spanish version on XWT...


----------



## Corey

Pretty sweet brawl here.






I know everyone loves the Casas match, but this is probably my favorite Hechicero match this year. The power vs. speed narrative is great and I loved the finish. Awesome stuff.


----------



## Corey

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742428442692485120
Interesting. Maybe this is why they took the title off of him?


----------



## Stetho

Fuck WWE


----------



## Corey

From thecubsfan:

_ Elite’s holding a 16 man international tournament, in another competition that seems to be happening in response to the Lucha World Cup. The single elimination tournament will take place on 06/23 (Thursday) and 06/25 (Saturday) in a single elimination tournament.

1) the winner of the Elite Rumble this Thursday (Mexico)
2) Hernández (Puerto Rico)
3) Tama Tonga (Tonga)
4) DJZ (Philippines)
5) Jinder Mahal (India)
6) Bram (UK)
7) Lio Rush (US)
8) Zumbi (Brazil)
9) Kushida (Japan)
10) Michael Elgin (Canada)
11) Heddi Karaoui (France)
12) David Tita (Cameroon)
13) Veneno (Panama)
14) ?
15) ??
16) ???

I don’t think the last three are meant to be mysterious; they’re just omitted from the lists. Marco Corleone (Italy) & Johnny Idol (New Zealand) could be two of those spots. The other people in CMLL’s Gran Prix would be duplicate countries from those already listed.

Those in the match Thursday to represent Mexico
– Máscara Dorada
– Atlantis
– La Máscara
– Rush
– Carístico
– Cibernético
– Xtreme Tiger
– Volador Jr.
– Diamante Azul
– Rey Escorpión_

Not exactly a bunch of matches I'd like to see come out of that tournament, but it's certainly an interesting pool of talent. Would be fine with Dorada, Rush, Caristico, or Volador repping Mexico. KUSHIDA vs. Rush could be awesome among others.


----------



## Corey

Next set of AA tapings look pretty good.

*AAA (SUN) 07/03/2016 Centro Civico Nueva Aragon, Ecatepec, Estado de México*

1) Atomic Boy, Gotita de Plata, Lanzeloth, Venum vs Herodes Jr., Soul Rocker, Súper Fly, Tigre Cota
2) Argenis & Australian Suicide vs Daga & Joe Lider
3) Fénix vs Drago vs Aerostar [*#1 Contenders, AAA CRUISER*]
4) Texano Jr. vs Dr. Wagner Jr. vs Brian Cage
5) Bengala, Garza Jr., La Parka vs ?, Damián 666, Nicho el Millionario
6) Psycho Clown *©* vs Pentagón Jr. [*AAA LA*]
_Psycho second defense._


----------



## Stetho

Still, I don't really get what's happening with los Fronterizos vs PdM. Psycho just is in the middle of this now ?


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Road to Triplemania XXIV has begun!
*
06/16 Arena Naucalpan*








*07/03 Ecatepec*








*07/08 Ciudad de Mexico*








*07/17 Oaxaca*
*07/29 Toluca*
+1 TV Taping 
*Triplemania XXIV* (Early August prob)

Both TV Taping left in July and Triplemania Date will be announced next week!


----------



## USAUSA2

August 28th is looking like the big date.


----------



## Stetho

I'm 2 weeks behind on AAA at the moment but those cards really are dope. Mysterio was supposed to return so he could be the mystery guy in team Mexico.
The bad thing is there's nothing on Verano de Escandalo.

On a totally different note, with their deal with the Mexican GP I hope we'll see some Sergio Perez soon.


----------



## Corey

Interesting looking main event here:


----------



## Rah

While feds around Mexico are booking dream matches in 2016, CMLL books Elgin vs Gran Guerrero. Just typing that makes me die a little inside.


----------



## The High King

ArnDaddy said:


> I thought the Lucha Libre world cup was excellent, really enjoyed it. Some really good matches on the Sunday show.


just started watching this and all the feel of a proper supercard.
The womens match is decent and taya keeps getting better and cheerleader melissa always great.
Pity I cannot find an english commentary


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Last 2 Weeks AAA Worldwide TV Episodes from Pachuca

AAA Worldwide Pachuca Part 1




* Faby Apache & Mari Apache vs Taya & La Hiedra (Apaches Call tag team champions but they don't answer)
* Drago, Aerostar & Bengala vs Averno, Ricky Marvin & Chessman [1# Contender AAA Trios/Tercias Championship] (Fenix couldn't wrestle due he was injured)
- Noti AAA: Lucha Libre World Cup recap, Pagano vs Psycho Clown Matches, Incoming Matches.
* Texano Jr & Dr. Wagner Jr vs El Mesias & Hernandez (Mesias with the Parka Mask LOL)

AAA Worldwide Pachuca Part 2




- Psycho Clown Promo about Hardcore Match
* Pimpinela Escarlata, Venum, Dinastia & Atomic Boy vs Mamba, El Apache, Mini Psycho Clown & Soul Rocker (Apache beat Venum and Unmasked him after)
* Niño Hamburguesa, Argenis & Australian Suicide vs Damian 666, Halloween & Nicho el Millonario
- Noti AAA: AAA and Boing Sponsorship Partnership, Pagano vs Psycho Clown Feud, Faby Apache interview, x
* Pagano vs Psycho Clown vs Pentagon Jr [Hardcore Match]


----------



## Corey

Cavernario bout to get his revenge for losing his title and getting his face busted.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/745374833622552576


----------



## Stetho

The Elite World Cup didn't draw shit apparently, too bad...


----------



## Corey

Stetho said:


> The Elite World Cup didn't draw shit apparently, too bad...


Probably would've drawn more if they had advertised Volador vs. PJ Black as a first round match, but either way the whole thing seemed rushed. I'm looking forward to watching it though. Hoping we get KUSHIDA vs. Volador.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/746185444568752128


----------



## Stetho

They probably could have done a bit better yes, but aren't mexicans fans careless about foreigners ?


----------



## Corey

Stetho said:


> They probably could have done a bit better yes, but aren't mexicans fans careless about foreigners ?


Couldn't tell you, honestly. Although judging by the attendance numbers it seems that way. :lol


----------



## Corey

Pretty good 10 minute match here. I haven't seen much individually from PJ since he left WWE that made me think that highly of him, but he seemed to be in his element here working as a heel and being able to do all his stuff. Hope he comes back.






------------------------

And here's the lineup for the Gran Prix iPPV:

*CMLL (FRI) 07/01/2016 Arena México*
1) Blue Panther, Blue Panther Jr., The Panther vs Felino, Puma, Tiger
2) Atlantis, Mistico, Stuka Jr. vs Euforia, Mr. Niebla, Terrible
3) Rey Cometa vs Cavernario *[Hair]*
4) Diamante Azul, La Máscara, Máximo Sexy, Rey Escorpión, Rush, Shocker, Último Guerrero, Volador Jr. vs Johnny Idol, Kushida, Marco Corleone, Michael Elgin, Okumura, Sam Adonis, Tama Tonga, Tangaroa *[Gran Prix]*

Has there been any really good gran prix matches in the past? I've never seen one but apparently they haven't done it since 2008.


----------



## Corey

Congrats to Elgin, who defeated Volador in the finals. Signing with New Japan has done wonders for his career.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/746907678081843200


----------



## Corey

God damn what a a card! You goin to this one @NakNak ?


----------



## HOJO

RIP Thunder


----------



## ArnDaddy

Knocked this up for La Familia de Fronteriza in AAA. Their theme music is sooo good.







Also, I posted this in the Lucha Underground section too after Striker mentioned Super Calo last week - its a short clip of Striker asking Rey Mysterio what some of his favourite masks were when he was a kid:


----------



## Stetho

Video blocked in my country, cause fuck me, that's why.

Finally watched AAA shows in Pachuca.

And RIP Thunder, of course


----------



## Corey

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/748888236181721088
This convinced me. Just bought the iPPV for $12 USD. Really looking forward to the top two matches.


----------



## Corey

Great show tonight! It looks as if no else bought the iPPV, so I doubt anyone's worried about spoilers.  Where has I <3 KEMONITO been? No one else posts about CMLL.

The Cavernario vs. Cometa hair match is must see. Absolutely tremendous 3rd fall and great suspense in the last couple minutes. The best lucha match I've seen this year that didn't involve Dragon Lee & Kaimatachi. **** 1/4

A lot of thoughts about the Grand Prix because there was obviously a lot going on. If you're not a fan of Elgin, this won't be the match for you because there was HEAVY DOSES of that man. :lol Disappointed by the lack of KUSHIDA... and La Mascara being the one to eliminate him was pretty strange. They treated the New Japan heavyweights as much bigger deals, despite the fact that Tonga Loa/Roa is awful and his exchanges with Diamante Azul were some of the worst of the match (where the fuck did Azul even come from?). Shocker pretty much got eliminated twice because he was clearly tapping to KUSHIDA early in the match but that terrible ass Tirantes didn't see it. Really liked the charisma from Sam Adonis. Idol added nothing of note. Match was decent in the first half but once it got down to the final 6 (Elgin & the Tongas vs. Ultimo, Volador, & La Mascara) they really took it to the next level. I was pretty shocked they got Elgin outta there and went with Guerrillas of Destiny as the final two for the world team, but I'll be damned if it didn't work! Thought for sure it would be Elgin and KUSHIDA repping the other guys, but Volador & Tama Tonga ended up having a really good singles match to end it. Tonga constantly avoiding the reverse headscissors rana that Volador does was awesome and the crowd was having a great time. Tama did NOTHING of note for the longest time in the match and now I understand why. Saving him for last! Good match as a whole with Elgin doing a great job of getting himself over as a heel and Tama Tonga really stepping up as well. Volador was the ace of Team Mexico, obviously. Congratulations to him.

Oh and I almost forgot! The Rush/La Mascara was great for continuation. It looks like they may be co-headlining the anniversary show with a mask vs. hair match there. RUSH is the fuckin man.

Realistic matches I can see coming out of this within the next two weeks:

*CMLL Heavyweight Title:* Maximo vs. Tama Tonga (Tonga eliminated him clean here)
*IWGP Intercontinental Title:* Michael Elgin vs. Ultimo Guerrero (Guerrero eliminated Elgin, made him tap actually, and Guerrero has worked in New Japan before obviously)
*IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Championship:* KUSHIDA vs. Volador (This seems to be the most liekly scenario after Volador beat him to advance in Liga Elite's tournament, but now it seems a little more shaky after La Mascara got the elimination of all people)

Those would be the big 3 and I hope they wouldn't book something stupid like Elgin vs. Shocker or Tonga vs. Azul or something.

So yeah, all those paragraphs aside, the show was really good tonight and definitely worth the $12. Felt like I got to see something special in the main event and Cometa/Cavernario was even better.

Oh and last thing, the show looks to have drawn well (much better than Elite's tournament), but it certainly wasn't a sellout and the Lucha World Cup did better overall. https://www.instagram.com/p/BHWHeIYAq6d/


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Road to Triplemania XXIV Updated!

*06/16 Arena Naucalpan*









*07/03 Ecatepec*









*07/08 Ciudad de Mexico*









*07/17 Oaxaca*









*07/29 Toluca*









+1 TV Taping?
*Triplemania XXIV* (August)

AAA Worldwide TV broadcasted last week Lucha Libre World Cup TV Version that it's here




- Intro World Cup with Mexican Banda de Guerra, Rules Explained, LLWC Qualifying Highlights
* Team AAA vs Team Odo/ZERO1 (Quarterfinal)
* Pentagon Jr vs Masato Tanaka [Muerte Subita]
* Texano Jr vs Ikuto Hidaka [Muerte Subita]
- Victoria Trophy Highlights
* Team Lucha Underground vs Team Mexico International (Semifinal)
- 3rd Place Women's Match Highlights Team Canada vs Team Usa
* Women's Final Match: Team Mexico vs Team Japan
* Aja Kong vs Faby Apache [Muerte Subita]
* Mari Apache vs Yuki Miyazaki [Muerte Subita]
- 3rd Place Men's World Cup Team Mexico International vs Team Noah
* Men's Final Match: Team AAA vs Team LU
* Texano Jr vs Chavo Guerrero Jr [Muerte Subita]
* Psycho Clown vs Brian Cage [Muerte Subita]
* Pentagon Jr vs Johnny Mundo [Muerte Subita]
- Awards Ceremony

but both complete Spanish and English versions of the Final Day are here:

English Version





Spanish Version





Today AAA Worldwide TV Brodcast will be from Naulcalpan


----------



## Vårmakos

They're really going to have an indy trash guy like Pagano main event Triplemania?


----------



## Stetho

I love Pagano. I'd rather have him against Pentagon than Psycho but it's cool.
Gonna try to find some time to watch the CMLL Grand Prix.


----------



## Corey

Well I was completely wrong about the singles match predictions for next Friday's show, but at least there's a bunch of decent looking tags here and Mistico/Mascara. I'll be pissed if they run a big singles match on a show that'll never see the light of day. :cuss:


----------



## Corey

@Stetho and anyone else interested: 






And here's the Campeonato Mundial Elite Finals. Good match, but nothing to go out of your way to see. I think I liked the match with PJ Black a hair more. Unfortunately all the other matches on the same day went REALLY short (Volador/Tonga and Volador/KUSHIDA). Elgin vs. Lio Rush looked great by the highlights shown.


----------



## USAUSA1

Sexy Star is officially a boxer.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Latest AAA Worldwide TV: Naulcalpan






- Mesias Promo about Donald Trump, Calls Dr Wagner Jr, He appears, Bien bien bien, Tecnico Promo, How he always won in this feud, Mesias wants to beat him right now but is stopped
- Pentagon wants a shot at the AAA Latinoamericano Championship if he wins the incoming match
* Los Perros del Mal (Pentagon Jr & Joe Lider) vs Los Fronterizos (Damian 666 & Nicho el Millonario) vs Murder Clown & Monster Clown
- Texano Jr promoabout how he likes the match and the winner wil get a shot at thr AAA Megachampionship, Bien bien bien promo
* Dr Wagner Jr vs El Mesias
- Noti AAA: AAA Latinoamericano Championship Match, TV Taping Dates, Media Day where Faby Apache, Mari Apache, Averno, Chessman, Lady Shani and others gave interviews, Averno and Chessman won't give Apaches a Tag team Match, Jesus says she has to wait for her opportunity.
* Psycho Clown vs Pagano [Hardcore Match]


----------



## NakNak

Corey said:


> God damn what a a card! You goin to this one @NakNak ?


It's Chile, not Colombia, those fuckers fucked it up :lol 

Hell yeah i'm going! (Meet and greet & Ringside)

Can't wait!!!

I hope that they can bring someone like Elgin next time


----------



## MR-Bolainas

AAA just made TV Taping in Ecatepec and here are some results

*Herodes Jr debuted here plus Mocho Cota Jr (Tigre Cota) and Gotita de Plata returned and Venum defeated their team and won but Apache attacked him after the match
* 2nd match was short because Los Fronterizos (Damian 666 and Nicho el Millonario) attacked Perros del Mal (Daga and Joe Lider) so Tecnicos won (Australian Suicide & Argenis)
* AAA Cruiserweight Championship 1# Contender Match was won by Fenix defeating Drago and Aerostar after the match, El Zorro Attacked them and Aerostar was taken out on a stretcher
* Bestia 666 returned (Surprise Luchador) and Los Fronterizos won
* Cage defeated Dr Wagner Jr and Texano Jr in a Triple Threat Elimination Match and wants a match for the AAA Megacampeonato
* Finally Pentagon Jr is your new AAA Latinoamerican Championship defeating Psycho Clown!


----------



## Corey

Has there been any discussion on if/when Rey Mysterio will return to AAA full time? Looking at the guys they're using right now, I have absolutely no idea how he fits in with everything but you've gotta think he'd only help the business side of it.


----------



## USAUSA1

I doubt Rey is returning unless it's Triplemania or lucha cup.


----------



## Stetho

Corey said:


> Has there been any discussion on if/when Rey Mysterio will return to AAA full time? Looking at the guys they're using right now, I have absolutely no idea how he fits in with everything but you've gotta think he'd only help the business side of it.


He was teased returning and he'd fit in the surprise spot in the 8th of July show. But yeah, I don't see where he'd go on the Triplemania card at the moment.


----------



## Corey

They made the changes! :mark:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/750069074567147520
And you can support CMLL by buying the Grand Prix match in its entirety for $1 on Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GEqukTEENc

Also, for some really weird reason they're running Ultimo Guerrero vs. KUSHIDA on the Sunday show, but that'll likely never make tape.


----------



## Corey

Sunday night, a week after Summerslam.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/750524546327859200


----------



## Corey

I get so excited every time I see a title match advertised in CMLL. :lol We got another one this Monday!

*CMLL (MON) 07/11/2016 Arena Puebla*
1) Astro, Asturiano, Último Dragóncito vs Espíritu Maligno, Mini Joker, Pierrothito
2) Black Tiger, King Jaguar, Oro Jr. vs Ares, Disturbio, Fuerza Chicana
3) Carístico & Último Guerrero vs Rush & Volador Jr. and Tama Tonga & Tangaroa and Kráneo & Kushida and Michael Elgin & Ripper and La Máscara & Sharlie Rockstar and Diamante Azul & Rey Escorpión and ***** Casas & Shocker *[Relevos Increíbles]*
4) Mephisto *©* vs Mistico *[CMLL WELTER]*
_2nd defense_


----------



## USAUSA1

Corey said:


> Sunday night, a week after Summerslam.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/750524546327859200


Let's hope for LA Park vs. Pentagon


----------



## Vårmakos

Sounds like CMLL is about to lose ROOSH.


----------



## Corey

Vårmakos said:


> Sounds like CMLL is about to lose ROOSH.


What's this stemming from?


----------



## Vårmakos

Corey said:


> What's this stemming from?


WON are reporting that WWE is interested in Volador Jr. and Rush.


----------



## Corey

Vårmakos said:


> WON are reporting that WWE is interested in Volador Jr. and Rush.




Rush needs to take Atlantis' mask first.


----------



## Stetho

Vårmakos said:


> WON are reporting that WWE is interested in Volador Jr. and Rush.


Old news isn't it ? Pretty sure I already heard it before.


----------



## Rah

WWE have been interested in Volador for a long while. That's why he lost the mask to Sombra. Rush has discussed his future with WWE in an interview with Lucha+. He said that Dragon Lee was asked to be in the Cruiserweight Classic but turned down the proposal because he was too fully booked. He then added that he chose not to go with La Sombra to NXT because he felt like he would have to change himself too much (using Sombra as an example) and he did not want to do that, at this stage.


----------



## Corey

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/750820239349166080
On the topic of Rush, I feel like the guy is juicing. When I saw him at the Grand Prix he had some serious back acne goin on. :lol

Different note, tonight's Claro show looks fantastic:

1) Esfinge, Fuego, Tritón vs Bobby Z, Hechicero, Virus
2) Máscara Dorada, Rey Cometa, Titán vs Cavernario, Dragón Rojo Jr., Rey Escorpión
3) Mistico vs La Máscara *[lightning]*
4) Mephisto, Shocker, Último Guerrero vs Johnny Idol, Okumura, Sam Adonis
5) Atlantis, Diamante Azul, Máximo vs Michael Elgin, Tama Tonga, Tangaroa
6) Volador Jr. *©* vs Kushida *[NWA WELTER]*
_~ 10th defense_


----------



## Corey

Psycho Clown vs. Pagano in a Mask vs. Hair match is gonna be the main event for Triplemania. Gross.

KUSHIDA vs. Volador was great stuff. The dynamic was admittedly a bit odd though because you could tell KUSHIDA was thrown off by not having pretty much _anyone_ cheering for him (because he constantly kept trying to get the crowd behind him). The audience made the armwork and the submissions on his end feel a bit dull because they weren't responding, but you can't fault the work done at all. Pretty lengthy match too, may have been the longest singles they've had all year next to Dragon Lee/Kamaitachi. A lot of nice reversals and nearfalls in the late stages. Volador really pushed KUSHIDA into more high flying tonight. I'll go low end **** because there was a lot of stuff to like despite some the oddities, but you have the same match in Japan and the response would've been TREMENDOUS.

The 2nd match was good as well. Dorada/Cometa/Titan vs. Cavernario/Escorpio/Rojo. Dorada took some hard bumps that he really shouldn't be taking right now and actually appeared to hurt his ankle. Hopefully he's alright.

Leyenda de Plata next week! Idk what exactly I'm in for, but I'm excited! :mark:


----------



## LaMelo

Corey said:


> Psycho Clown vs. Pagano in a Mask vs. Hair match is gonna be the main event for Triplemania. Gross.
> 
> KUSHIDA vs. Volador was great stuff. The dynamic was admittedly a bit odd though because you could tell KUSHIDA was thrown off by not having pretty much _anyone_ cheering for him (because he constantly kept trying to get the crowd behind him). The audience made the armwork and the submissions on his end feel a bit dull because they weren't responding, but you can't fault the work done at all. Pretty lengthy match too, may have been the longest singles they've had all year next to Dragon Lee/Kamaitachi. A lot of nice reversals and nearfalls in the late stages. Volador really pushed KUSHIDA into more high flying tonight. I'll go low end **** because there was a lot of stuff to like despite some the oddities, but you have the same match in Japan and the response would've been TREMENDOUS.
> 
> The 2nd match was good as well. Dorada/Cometa/Titan vs. Cavernario/Escorpio/Rojo. Dorada took some hard bumps that he really shouldn't be taking right now and actually appeared to hurt his ankle. Hopefully he's alright.
> 
> Leyenda de Plata next week! Idk what exactly I'm in for, but I'm excited! :mark:


Where can this be watched?


----------



## Stetho




----------



## USAUSA1

Spending all that money on Rey,Adr,Myzteziz and random foreigners like Bailey and Masters caught up to aaa. Decisions that was influenced by konnan. Perro dying hurt things as well. Not a fan of Pagano but he is popular on the indy scene in Mexico. I understand the risk. Too soon for a hair vs mask match.


----------



## Corey

On the plus side of Triplemania it looks like they're building to a Pentagon vs. Johnny Mundo match for the Latin American title. That should be good.

Next Friday's CMLL show:

*CMLL (FRI) 07/15/2016 Arena México*
1) La Vaquerita & Skadi vs La Seductora & Tiffany
2) Ángel de Oro, Rey Cometa, Stuka Jr. vs Ephesto, Hechicero, Luciferno
3) Máximo Sexy, Súper Crazy, Valiente vs Rey Bucanero, Terrible, Vangellys
4) Mistico vs ***** Casas, Volador Jr., La Máscara, Titán, Mephisto, Tritón, Cavernario, Guerrero Maya Jr., Ripper, The Panther, Virus *[Leyenda de Plata]*
5) Atlantis, Diamante Azul, Rush vs Euforia, Gran Guerrero, Último Guerrero

Guessing they're gonna have one cibernetico next week and then one more the week after for Leyenda de Plata, with the winners facing each other the following week? That's what I've read in years past. Don't think Volador will win here because he's been winning everything as of late. Mistico has a title match in a few days so not sure about him. Casas was last year's winner so he stands a chance. Who knows! I'm pulling for Cavernario.


----------



## Miguel De Juan

Why the hate for Pyscho Clown ? He and Texano had a great mask vs. hair match a couple of years ago.


----------



## Corey

Miguel De Juan said:


> Why the hate for Pyscho Clown ? He and Texano had a great mask vs. hair match a couple of years ago.


I don't think the hate is geared towards Psycho Clown, more so towards Pagano. Obviously going from Mysterio, Myzteziz, and Del Rio to now this indy deathmatch kinda guy main eventing the biggest show of the year is a bit of downgrade.


----------



## LaMelo

That is a lot of wasted money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Stetho

Don't care if he's an indy guy. It's good to see new faces. AAA is already pretty annoying with his old guy fetish, why would you ask for less new guys ?


----------



## Corey

Guerrero defeated Elgin tonight (again). Hoping the match _somehow_ turns up online at some point, but I won't bet on it considering title matches between Volador/Mephisto and Guerrero/Atlantis have never turned up this year. It would be really awesome if NJPW acknowledged these victories and booked KUSHIDA/Volador and Elgin/Guerrero for their respective titles in Japan.


----------



## Corey

CMLL doing the right thing! Certainly gonna pay $1 for the whole show.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/752578169220177920
And :woo


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/752526453590286336


----------



## Corey

*** 1/4 for Guerrero vs. Elgin. Worth my $1 rental for the experience. A more deliberate & slower paced match, which was appreciated and felt different. Elgin was great as the heel here but the finishes to the first and third fall were just way too abrupt. Guerrero gets his ass kicked and then just wins out of nowhere in both. Seemed lazy for sure.

Now if we can just get Volador/Mephisto, Dragon Lee/Cavernario, Guerrero/Atlantis, and Volador/Tama Tonga released then we'll be all straight.


----------



## shlegglete

Does anyone know of a site has a good selection of Lucha dvds? Rudoreels and hightspots have some stuff, but is there a place with more?


----------



## Corey

Nice return for Dragon Lee tomorrow night.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/753614164556324864


shlegglete said:


> Does anyone know of a site has a good selection of Lucha dvds? Rudoreels and hightspots have some stuff, but is there a place with more?


I wouldn't call it a great selection, but you can find some gems at www.ivpvideos.com That's where I got all my '80s and '90s Lucha.


----------



## Stetho

Teddy Hart in Arena Mexico?


----------



## Corey

Not too sure how I feel about this.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/754160852287180800


----------



## Stetho

They won't push two mexicans. Him or la Sombra will end up as a midcard joke.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

First match announced for This year triplemania
-Pagano vs Psycho Hair vs Mask. (I'd made it a Deathmatch too)
and also considering ongoimg storylines following matches could be

Perros del mal vs Los Fronterizos
Fenix vs El hijo del Fantasma for the AAA Cruiserweight Championship
Apaches vs Averno & Chessman for the AAA Tag team championship
Texano defending megacampeonato vs Wagner and Cage
Pentagon vs Johnny mundo for the AAA Latinoamerican Champ? Los Xinetez vs Drago & Aerostar? Apache vs Venum?

Latest AAA Worldwide TV Episode from Ecatepec Part 2





+Psycho Clown vs Pentagon Jr for the AAA Latinomerican Championship (Highlights)
* Australian Suicide & Argenis vs Daga & Joe Lider
* Drago vs Aerostar vs Fenix (1# Contender AAA Cruiserweight Champ)
- Noti AAA: Latavius Murray from NFL interview, Apaches vs tag team champions feud, Triplemania XXIV
* Dr Wagner Jr vs Brian Cage vs Texano Jr


----------



## Punkhead

Decided to get back into lucha. Can somebody give me a quick rundown on what is happening in AAA, CMLL and IWRG right now? Anything else I need to check out?

By the way, I've seen WWE CWC, pretty sad to see that Mascara Dorada and La Sombra are no longer in CMLL. Anyone else is gone? Any exciting new guys?

EDIT: i just checked and I'm glad to see AAA still uploads their shows on YouTube, but I can't find CMLL and IWRG. Where can I find their shows? Does thecubsfan upload them? If so, where?


----------



## Corey

@Punkhead CMLL's Youtube channel uploads all their full shows from Monday (Puebla) and Tuesday nights (Arena Mexico). They'll be labled something like 'LUCHA LIBRE PUEBLA 27 DE ENERO'. The Friday night shows air on Claro Sports live (http://www.clarosports.com/en-vivo02/) but eventually do get uploaded by cubsfan. I'd also recommend subscribing and watching Liga Elite (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCteHHOid_mkwm4SG7ZRZZkA)

As far as what's happening in the company, there's a lot going on and no one can really figure out the main direction. Rush/La Mascara is definitely gonna happen at some point (maybe the Anniversary show) but other than that feuds randomly come about that turn into title matches or singles matches on a weekly basis. If you'd like a list of matches you should watch from this year, just let me know. CMLL is one of the few companies I'm completely up to date with.


----------



## Punkhead

Corey said:


> @Punkhead CMLL's Youtube channel uploads all their full shows from Monday (Puebla) and Tuesday nights (Arena Mexico). They'll be labled something like 'LUCHA LIBRE PUEBLA 27 DE ENERO'. The Friday night shows air on Claro Sports live (http://www.clarosports.com/en-vivo02/) but eventually do get uploaded by cubsfan. I'd also recommend subscribing and watching Liga Elite (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCteHHOid_mkwm4SG7ZRZZkA)
> 
> As far as what's happening in the company, there's a lot going on and no one can really figure out the main direction. Rush/La Mascara is definitely gonna happen at some point (maybe the Anniversary show) but other than that feuds randomly come about that turn into title matches or singles matches on a weekly basis. If you'd like a list of matches you should watch from this year, just let me know. CMLL is one of the few companies I'm completely up to date with.


Thanks. And a quick list of must-watch matches would be really nice.


----------



## Stetho

Volador vs KUSHIDA
Volador vs ***** Casas
Rush vs Maximo
Kamaitachi vs Dragon Lee 

I think it's a good start


----------



## Corey

Punkhead said:


> Thanks. And a quick list of must-watch matches would be really nice.


Dragon Lee vs. Kamaitachi (NJPW/CMLL Fantasticamania 1/24) **** 1/2
Kamaitachi vs. Dragon Lee (CMLL 3/4) **** 1/4
Caristico vs. Volador Jr. (CMLL Elite 4/6, aired 4/8) ****
Angel De Oro vs. La Mascara (CMLL on Claro Sports 4/8) ****
Dragon Lee, Mascara Dorada, & Mistico vs. Ultimo Guerrero, Gran Guerrero, & Euforia (CMLL on Claro Sports 4/8) ****
Volador Jr. vs. Mascara Dorada (Liga Elite 4/29) ****
Cavernario vs. Rey Cometa (CMLL 6/10) ****
Hair Match: Cavernario vs. Rey Cometa (CMLL Grand Prix) **** 1/4
Volador Jr. vs. KUSHIDA (CMLL 7/8) ****

Once you get more in tune with the product, the Gran Prix match is worth a watch as well.


----------



## Punkhead

^ Will check those out, thanks.

Just watched AAA's latest show, not bad. Feel bad for Aerostar's injury, looked painful, hope it's not serious. Heard that Psycho Clown vs Pagano mask vs hair was added to Triplemania card. Don't remember when was the last time I saw Pagano, don't know if he's any good now or at least on the level of such match. And Texano Jr. is champion again, just like when I stopped watching? I missed the whole Alberto's reign. What is going on with the World title? Who is Texano feuding with?


----------



## Corey

Texano is feuding with both Dr. Wagner and Cage. Might be a 3 way at Triplemania actually. I've personally thought the main event scene has been pretty stale and/or boring, but that's just me.


----------



## Stetho

I guess the commission wouldn't allow a men vs women title match. It's good they don't just throw the feud away but it sure lost a bit of magic now. 
I'm happy for Angelico and Jack Evans tho, they're probably the most underrated team in the world to me.


----------



## Corey

I still need to watch Rush & Park's brawl from Elite, but whenever this airs, shit it gonna be WILD:


----------



## Punkhead

So Mary and Faby are friends again? What happened?

Did CMLL and ROH have some kind of an agreement? Michael Elgin is wrestling in CMLL and Stuka Jr. was at ROH taping.

And who is this Tangaroa guy in CMLL? Wearing the same tights as Tama Tonga.


----------



## Corey

Punkhead said:


> Did CMLL and ROH have some kind of an agreement? Michael Elgin is wrestling in CMLL and Stuka Jr. was at ROH taping.
> 
> And who is this Tangaroa guy in CMLL? Wearing the same tights as Tama Tonga.


ROH, NJPW, and CMLL all have a working relationship. Kaimatachi has became a regular in ROH and they brought in Stuka Jr. to see what type of reaction he would get. Hopefully they start using more guys in the future. NJPW sent Elgin, KUSHIDA, and the Guerrillas of Destiny over to CMLL to wrestle in the Grand Prix.

He's Camacho from WWE aka Micah from TNA. Tama Tonga's brother. He's awful.


----------



## LilOlMe

Corey said:


> I still need to watch Rush & Park's brawl from Elite


Me too. It sounds awesome. Like you said, though, it's so hard to keep up with everything. I wish there could be a reprieve on life for fun. :lol

From Meltzer's latest newsletter:


> Volador Jr. vs. Kushida NWA welterweight title match from 7/8 and it was ****1/4. Kushida is one of the best in the world and what’s most impressive is he can adapt his style toward his opponent, in the sense he’s great no matter what the style. The crowd was super into all the near falls
> 
> CMLL is now using YouTube for revenue. It started with the World Grand Prix where they put it up on YouTube for $1.49 and then followed by putting up the 7/10 Arena Mexico show, with Michael Elgin vs. Ultimo Guerrero, for $1. It’s called a rental in that if you buy it, you have 30 days to watch it, but once you start watching, you only get 72 hours to finish watching





> There has been interest regarding Rush and Volador Jr., who have been CMLL’s standout main eventers of late, with Rush the company’s best heel and Volador its most pushed non-older legend babyface. It’s not clear how far things have gone as far as if it’s been green lit to make a play or if there has been direct contact. Rush was La Sombra’s regular tag team partner on top and Volador Jr. was his big rival. Losing either would be a gigantic blow for CMLL





> Dragon Lee revealed that he had agreed to do the Cruiserweight Classic but that his knee injury got in the way. He was also scheduled to do ROH’s TV tapings on 7/16 against Kamaitachi, and actually started back the night before, but they didn’t know he’d make it ahead of time so pulled the booking. He noted he’s got a long career ahead of him and plenty of opportunities. *For all the talk of WWE stripping so much talent from New Japan, it looks like CMLL, which has a ton of young, talented wrestlers right now, may be the ones getting stripped this year*


Looks like they might be using La Sombra to pouch people from CMLL the same way they're using Albert/Finn/Nakamura to do the same from NJPW.

It's funny how many people that WWE are now trying to sign, after previously passing on them. Rush tried out last year. The fact that they didn't take him shows how stupid they are, and how much they rely on other people building real stars to eventually take.


----------



## Corey

Just watched Rush/Park. That was fuckin awesome. The stoppage didn't make any sense but at least it keeps the option open for a rematch or an apuestas match down the line (which they hinted at). Crazy how they kept fighting for like 7 more minutes after the ref ran out too. :lol Gotta be the biggest crowd ELITE has drawn so far too. Looked like the whole lower bowl was filled and they were wild.

Casas vs. La Mascara in the _Leyenda de Plata_ final tonight on Claro. Not really sure what to expect. Heel vs. heel? Mascara's booking has confused me over the last month so who knows. Match shouold be good but I would've preferred Mistico or Dragon Lee.

Ultimo Guerrero vs. Volador in Puebla on Monday. (Y) Should draw another good crowd for them.


----------



## kimino

Corey said:


> Just watched Rush/Park. That was fuckin awesome. The stoppage didn't make any sense but at least it keeps the option open for a rematch or an apuestas match down the line (which they hinted at). Crazy how they kept fighting for like 7 more minutes after the ref ran out too. :lol Gotta be the biggest crowd ELITE has drawn so far too. Looked like the whole lower bowl was filled and they were wild.
> 
> Casas vs. La Mascara in the _Leyenda de Plata_ final tonight on Claro. Not really sure what to expect. Heel vs. heel? Mascara's booking has confused me over the last month so who knows. Match shouold be good but I would've preferred Mistico or Dragon Lee.
> 
> Ultimo Guerrero vs. Volador in Puebla on Monday. (Y) Should draw another good crowd for them.


L.A Park is awesome, he just brings a level of intensity that CMLL has missed from some years.


----------



## Vårmakos

How do you guys keep up with CMLL week-to-week? Seems like a lot of matches happen of no consequence.


----------



## Corey

Vårmakos said:


> How do you guys keep up with CMLL week-to-week? Seems like a lot of matches happen of no consequence.


Very true. I pretty much exclusively watch singles matches. Makes it easy to keep up with because you only get maybe one or two a week (sometimes none). Idk what they ever say in promos so I rely on cubsfan to fill me in on that.  I'll watch a tag every now and then if the teams look good but I can't get into those as much with the weird rules and lack of structure most of the time. Their roster is so deep though that you're always gonna get something different.


----------



## Corey

La Mascara won Leyenda de Plata. Match was way too short and had a shit finish. Guerreros vs. Sky Team is definitely worth your time though. Really fun semi-main.

Definitely skipping ELITE this week, which features Teddy fucking Hart vs. Rey Escorpion and Diamante Azul vs. Xtreme Tiger in the main event. That's absolutely god awful. The Liga Elite standings make no sense now with Caristico being hurt, Dorada being in WWE, and I assume Escorpion taking Casas' spot. Who knows.

And what the hell is this:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/756683293412569088


----------



## LaMelo

That is a long time between matches! Hopefully it will deliver.


----------



## Stetho

Wow, I actually really want to see this cage match.


----------



## USAUSA1

Watching the latest episode of aaa right now. Love the energy of the show. The crowd was lively, one of the best crowds all year. If you didn't pay attention to konnan, Meltzer, or luchablog, you wouldn't think aaa had any issues. The audience in Mexico is responding to things. Going to be interesting too see how well Triplemania does in the post superstar world. 

Cmll really needed a luchaunderground type show to prevent the wwe raid. I definitely expect rush and Dragon Lee to be gone within 12 months. Maybe they can convince njpw or roh to give them side deals.


----------



## Stetho

Yup, Ecatepec shows were cool and I don't really get all the AAA bashing. 
Sure it ain't NJPW and you shouldn't expect Tanahashi/Okada level matches every week, but when I want to see lucha libre with fun atmosphere, kids jumping the barreers, shit thrown in the ring and a fine roster, I'm pretty happy with it.


----------



## USAUSA1

I actually enjoyed the show more than Ultima lucha.


----------



## Corey

Along with that random Teddy Hart/Xtreme Tiger Cage match next week, ELITE also has Mascara Dorada returning to Mexico to face Rey Escorpion in Liga Elite. Really wonder how long he'll keep working for them.

Friday's Claro show has Dragon Lee vs. La Mascara and this nice looking tag: Máscara Dorada, Mistico, Valiente vs Cavernario, Felino, ***** Casas.


----------



## Corey

The entire Triplemania card was announced at a press conference today. Doesn't look to bad. Paul London!? Marty the Moth!? Matanza!?

*AAA TV (SUN) 08/28/2016 Arena Ciudad de México, Ciudad de México, Distrito Federal*
1) La Parka vs 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 *[TripleMania Cup]*
2) Faby Apache & Mary Apache vs Averno & Chessman
3) Angélico & Jack Evans *©* vs Matt Cross & Paul London and Aerostar & Drago and Fénix & Hijo del Fantasma *[AAA TAG]*
_first defense_
4) Pentagón Jr. *©* vs Johnny Mundo *[AAA LA]*
first defense
5) Marty Martinez, Matanza, Mil Muertes vs Dragón Azteca Jr., Prince Puma, Rey Misterio Jr.
6) Dr. Wagner Jr. vs Texano Jr. *©* vs Cage *[AAA HEAVY]*
_first defense_
7) Pagano vs Psycho Clown *[hair, mask]*
_Referee will be picked by winner of match on 08/19_.

Also, daaaaaammn at this:


----------



## USAUSA1

A little worried about Dragon Lee, he needs to rest.


----------



## Corey

CMLL's 83rd Anniversary Show was announced for September 2nd, which is just a week after Triplemania and a lot earlier than people expected. They've got a month to build something new if they want, but there's very little that looks compelling on paper based on what they've been doing. Probably some form of La Mascara vs. either Dragon Lee or Rush in an apuestas match. That sounds pretty meh for an Anniversary main event. Volador vs. Ultimo Guerrero is another option for the hair (UG already denied Volador's challenge though). Wouldn't mind seeing a title match between Mephisto/Caristico, Atlantis/anyone, or Cometa/Dorada as somewhat of a send off. Couldn't go wrong with a Sky Team/Guerreros title match either.

Maximo vs. Rey Escorpion Tuesday night for the CMLL Heavyweight Title. A title _has_ changed hands on a Tuesday show this year, so who knows.


----------



## Stetho

They still have strong names and good potential matches, but I don't think going against Triplemania like this is a good idea.


----------



## USAUSA1

I think it's a great idea for tourists. You can stay for a week and catch both events.

I guess they're saving Atlantis vs Rush for next year or maybe never because wwe probably want rush too keep his hair. All wwe fault, they control companies booking.


----------



## Corey

I don't necessarily know how much it will affect them and the whole tourism thing, but it's the same weekend as BOLA and King of Trios. 

I'm just hoping they can figure out and announce a main event sometime soon. I really enjoyed the Grand Prix so I'd be willing to spend another $13 for the iPPV as long it's not something they throw together at the last minute. Rush & Dragon Lee vs. La Mascara & Shocker would be trash unless they did a Volador/UG hair match in the main event with another singles match to go with it. Pierroth doesn't need to be involved in anything.


----------



## Corey

Dorada & Rey Escorpion went all out and had a really damn good match on Elite last week (*** 3/4). Don't sleep on it. Dorada has been totally killing it this year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpuEyom2Zj4

The Teddy Hart/Xtreme Tiger Cage Match was probably as good as it was gonna be for two guys have no history or story together. It wasn't too long but they did a bunch of crazy shit to make it entertaining. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv-pQGrn-es

Haven't watched it yet, but Rush vs. LA Park from Monterrey is out in full. You know the shit's gonna be wild. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcn5s4xN0eg

Maximo kept the Heavyweight Title tonight. Only caught the 3rd fall, but the match was pretty good. Really hate the kiss and rollup finish though.

Got a strong card for this week of Elite too:


----------



## Rah

Figured there would be blood in Monterrey, weird.


----------



## Corey

Randomly getting a Mephisto/Caristico singles match in Guadalajara next Tuesday. Hopefully this somehow leads back to the title match they were supposed to have (and maybe at the anniversary show?)

Speaking of that & if this is true, the match will likely be good and at least they've been building to it the last couple weeks, but this certainly feels like a step down and not one of the bigger matches they could book. La Mascara has been pushed to the moon this year (won Leyenda de Plata in easy fashion and beat Angel de Oro for his title a few months back), but I would hope Dragon Lee would win this.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/761012066954022912


----------



## Stetho

Having someone litteraly called la Mascara without a mask would be weird, while Dragon Lee character still makes sense without, especially if they want to keep using his relationship with Rush.


----------



## USAUSA1

I think Dragon Lee will eventually sign with WWE. They wanted him for the CWC but he was injured(and still is in reality). Losing his mask make sense.


----------



## Corey

Stetho said:


> Having someone litteraly called la Mascara without a mask would be weird, while Dragon Lee character still makes sense without, especially if they want to keep using his relationship with Rush.


I just look at the guy like he doesn't need the mask or it won't make a difference. He comes out, struts around, and rips his pants off while women in the crowd scream for it.  He can still do the same and thrive without the mask, ya know?

But hey, at least we've got some intrigue here.


----------



## Stetho

Corey said:


> I just look at the guy like he doesn't need the mask or it won't make a difference. He comes out, struts around, and rips his pants off while women in the crowd scream for it.  He can still do the same and thrive without the mask, ya know?
> 
> But hey, at least we've got some intrigue here.


Yeah of course, but his name tho...

Just watched Rush vs LA Park from Elite. The atmosphere is fantastic and the story is great but I was expecting a bit more with all those good critics.


----------



## Rah

I was the complete opposite, honestly. It's by far and away my MotY (that doesn't say much, when I've probably only seen a dozen matches or so) but it's just something else. I'm not sure if it's the nostalgia of Arena Mexico letting free the blood, again, or not but it suckered me right in. There are no two better ass-kickers in wrestling than Rush and LA Park.


----------



## Corey

Well this really sucks & couldn't come at a worse time. Hopefully they stream them on Youtube because Claro will be covering the Olympics.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/761217331670372352


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Road to Triplemania XXIV continues tomorrow with the broadcast of AAA Worldwide from Oaxaca (Note that it's not called AAA Sin Limite Anymore if anyone still didn't know it)

But before two exclusive matches for internet/Youtube from Oaxaca

Lady Shani, Mini Psycho Clown & Mamba vs Big Mami, Pimpinela Escarlata & Dinastia 





Herodes Jr, Mocho Cota Jr & Hijo del Pirata Morgan vs Atomic Boy, Bengala & Argenis


----------



## Corey

Fuck, first no Claro show and now this. Assuming this means they won't upload the matches on their Youtube channel either. :/


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/761750069678702598
EDIT: And they made it official on the show tonight


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/761770468579958785


----------



## Corey

:mark: This card may be better than the Anniversary Show... if you could just replace Sharlie Rockstar with someone decent. I'm fairly certain Mephisto/Caristico is happening for the title sometime soon.


----------



## Vårmakos

I wonder what La Mascara is going to call himself when he gets unmasked.


----------



## Flair Shot

Vårmakos said:


> I wonder what La Mascara is going to call himself when he gets unmasked.


La Cara? :draper2


----------



## Corey

The whole Anniversary Show card was announced. I correctly predicted the Trios Titles match and that should probably be great. Main event will likely be good but it's obviously not the biggest match they could've made. Definitely pulling for Lee though. Couldn't care less about Crazy/Bucanero. That's garbage. Other singles match should've been Mephisto/Caristico for the title. No Rush on the show which is a shame. Also won't be broadcast on iPPV which is even more of shame. Seems like they're losing a lot of money by not doing that.

*CMLL (FRI) 09/02/2016 Arena México*

1) Amapola, Dalys, Zeuxis vs Lluvia, Marcela, Princesa Sugehit
2) Ephesto, Mephisto, Shocker vs Marco Corleone, Máximo, Stuka Jr.
3) Súper Crazy vs Rey Bucanero *[hair]*
4) Cavernario, Felino, ***** Casas vs Atlantis, Carístico, Máscara Dorada
5) Mistico, Valiente, Volador Jr. vs Euforia, Gran Guerrero, Último Guerrero *[CMLL TRIOS]*
_7th defense_
6) Dragón Lee vs La Máscara *[mask]*


----------



## USAUSA1

Last year it was on ippv and someone gave out the link. I doubt they're losing any real money for not doing ippv. Better off putting it on clarosports to get the maximum potential viewers.


----------



## Stetho

Disappointing.


----------



## Corey

USAUSA1 said:


> Last year it was on ippv and someone gave out the link. I doubt they're losing any real money for not doing ippv. Better off putting it on clarosports to get the maximum potential viewers.


They're not putting it anywhere. They said they'd have it up for VOD on Youtube the following morning, so there's no way to watch it live at all atm. That sucks.


----------



## USAUSA1

Now that sucks

I was expecting an Atlantis vs Rush match this year but maybe next year. If La Mascara losing, Atlantis vs La Mascara should have been the main.


----------



## Corey

USAUSA1 said:


> Now that sucks
> 
> I was expecting an Atlantis vs Rush match this year but maybe next year. If La Mascara losing, Atlantis vs La Mascara should have been the main.


I think CMLL is leaning less and less on Atlantis being in singles matches these days (probably because of his age of course). I honestly can't remember him main eventing any show against anyone this year other than a non televised title match he had with Ultimo Guerrero.


----------



## Corey

Even though it was already known, CMLL announced a partnership and talent exchange with ROH. Stuka has already worked for ROH and Dragon Lee comes in later this year. Matt Taven will be going to Mexico for the 9/9 show and then it notes he's staying for a role in "the special show that CMLL is preparing for 9/16". That's noteworthy because Taven hasn't made his in ring return to ROH yet after being sidelined for nearly 8 months now and also because that means we get another big CMLL show! :mark: That's Mexico's Independence Day so maybe _that's_ when we get Mephisto/Caristico for the title or other big matches. Taven's style should fit right in.

They're broadcasting the next two Friday night shows on Youtube instead of Claro on the road to the anniversary show. Tonight's show looks like a solid building block and I'll probbaly start tuning in at match 3.

*CMLL (FRI) 08/12/2016 Arena México*
1) Shockercito & Stukita vs Demus 3:16 & Mercurio
2) Hombre Bala Jr., Pegasso, Soberano Jr. vs Disturbio, Skándalo, Virus
3) Ángel de Oro, Guerrero Maya Jr., Titán vs Dragón Rojo Jr., Pólvora, Rey Escorpión
4) Súper Crazy vs Rey Bucanero *[lightning]*
5) Atlantis, Stuka Jr., Valiente vs Cavernario, Gran Guerrero, Mr. Niebla
6) Dragón Lee, Mistico, Volador Jr. vs Euforia, La Máscara, Último Guerrero

Monday's got a big Puebla show:

*CMLL (MON) 08/15/2016 Arena Puebla*
1) King Jaguar, Meyer, Star Jr. vs Artillero, Fuerza Chicana, Hijo del Signo
2) Astral, Asturiano, Eléctrico vs Demus 3:16, Espíritu Maligno, Pierrothito
3) Fuego, Stigma, Stuka Jr. vs Fujin, Okumura, Raijin
4) Black Tiger vs Ares *[mask]*
5) Atlantis, Máscara Dorada, Mistico vs Cavernario, Felino, ***** Casas
6) Último Guerrero *©* vs Shocker *[NWA MIDDLE]*
_7th defense._


----------



## Stetho

Really cool to have a new big show. Not a big fan of Matt Taven but I hope it means we're gonna have some Rush.


----------



## Corey

Was watching this unfold and my god if they make the match it'll be MONSTROUS and bigger than the Anniversary main event imo.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/765399630368550913


----------



## Stetho

Like Cavernario but I'm not sure it's really bigger than La Mascara/Dragon Lee tbh. Caristico Mephisto all the way!

Nothing astonishing in the 10 Copa TM participants but there's a mystery name tho. The card is great but I'm still bummed by the lack of Taya...


----------



## Rah

How big is Cavernario? Outside of the workrate-indy Lucha fans, does he even have a major following? Cavernario will probably have an apuesta against Black Terry on some random Cara Lucha show that all of 51 people will watch on Youtube.

Toplol if Mistico loses his mask to Cavernario, though.


----------



## Corey

Rah said:


> How big is Cavernario? Outside of the workrate-indy Lucha fans, does he even have a major following? Cavernario will probably have an apuesta against Black Terry on some random Cara Lucha show that all of 51 people will watch on Youtube.
> 
> Toplol if Mistico loses his mask to Cavernario, though.


He seems pretty over in every major match he's had in CMLL this year. Already took Cometa's hair again in the lone singles match from the Grand Prix. 

I just think it would be a huge match because Cavernario is one of like 3 or 4 guys in the company who losing his hair would be a major loss and not as predictable as others. Plus it would be the new Mistico's first apuesta and of course ya know, it's Mistico so the crowd's gonna eat it up. Feel like people the Mexican audience cares more about that than La Mascara.

They're having their first ever singles match Monday night in Puebla though so we'll see what happens. That other major show they're having in September would be stacked if they ran Mephisto/Caristico for the title and a Mistico/Cavernario apuesta.

-------------------

ELITE is running Dragon Lee vs. Flamita this weekend along with Black Terry vs. Blue Panther. That should be an interesting pair of two completely different matches.


----------



## Rah

Wait, I thought you meant Mistico (Caristico). Ignore the snide second paragraph. I'd assume CMLL will want to get rid of any "Mistico" tie now that the original is back. Still don't see it as bigger, though.


----------



## Corey

Rah said:


> Wait, I thought you meant Mistico (Caristico). Ignore the snide second paragraph. *I'd assume CMLL will want to get rid of any "Mistico" tie now that the original is back*. Still don't see it as bigger, though.


See, I think your view on that that makes the match even bigger and more unpredictable imo.  We'll see if they run it though.

Rah do you watch any Lucha at all these days? Seems unfortunate that when I get into so much everyone else disappears. Still don't know what happened to that KEMONITO guy...


----------



## Stetho

La Sombra really did the good choice joining NXT I guess. :justsayin


----------



## Rah

Corey said:


> Rah do you watch any Lucha at all these days? Seems unfortunate that when I get into so much everyone else disappears. Still don't know what happened to that KEMONITO guy...


I don't watch any wrestling, at all, these days. So much talent, and the only promotion actually doing a semi-decent job at being entertaining is TNA. Good lord if I'd believe that a year ago.


----------



## Vårmakos

Stetho said:


> La Sombra really did the good choice joining NXT I guess. :justsayin


Sarcasm? He's been a major flop so far. 

I honestly don't expect him to be around for much longer.


----------



## Corey

Well, looks like Mephisto/Caristico won't be happening on 9/16. People were actually saying Caristico looked noticeably hurt in his J Cup tag match today and came back too soon from the groin injury, so hopefully he heals up quick.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/767402068206317569


----------



## Stetho

Vårmakos said:


> Sarcasm? He's been a major flop so far.
> 
> I honestly don't expect him to be around for much longer.


Of course sarcasm :lol
When they sign Dorada he should run as far as possible from them.


----------



## Corey

Very disappointing turnout for Mistico/Cavernario in Puebla tonight. Empty seats quite literally everywhere. I guess I was wrong and Mistico isn't the individual draw I thought he was. Decent enough match, better than Mistico's title match with Mephisto a while back but nothing special. First two falls were nothing though so that always annoys me. Very strange the way they ended the match and then both guys quickly went to the back. No real celebrating from Mistico, no promos, no mention of challenging for his hair, just odd. Maybe they realized no one was there? Idk


----------



## amhlilhaus

Vårmakos said:


> Stetho said:
> 
> 
> 
> La Sombra really did the good choice joining NXT I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarcasm? He's been a major flop so far.
> 
> I honestly don't expect him to be around for much longer.
Click to expand...

He just got on tv??

Anyhoo, if he leaves where does he go? Isnt cmll asses about people leaving? Would they take him back already?


----------



## Stetho

NJPW was pretty hot on him IIRC, but AAA would be stupid not to try to get him.


----------



## Rah

Sombra left on good terms, and I'm sure CMLL would love to have him back. He lost his mask, and made a good exit. It was far from what Alberto did to AAA, and you know they'll welcome ADR if he expressed interest.


----------



## Stetho

Square ring :taker


----------



## Vårmakos

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/770059212089094145
And there are people out there who still think Striker is good on commentary.


----------



## USAUSA1

Wagner should cash out next year, he will be 52. Why wait? Aaa Triplemania and cmll anniversary are the major events and most money.


----------



## amhlilhaus

USAUSA1 said:


> Wagner should cash out next year, he will be 52. Why wait? Aaa Triplemania and cmll anniversary are the major events and most money.


Cause hes an egomaniac?


----------



## xsw

USAUSA1 said:


> Wagner should cash out next year, he will be 52. Why wait? Aaa Triplemania and cmll anniversary are the major events and most money.



Can't cash out in AAA (or CMLL) simply because they'll never agree to pay more than what they usually do. For a guy who works regularly in front of a few dozen fans like Pagano, is a great deal, but not for Wagner. I don't think he or Park have any real intentions of losing the masks, they're just working the crowd.


Mediotiempo said it was a full house, so they can draw good just throwing people at Psycho... unless they run a much bigger place, Wagner vs Psycho won't happen (unless they think Clown can be a bigger deal unmasked), they'll forget about it soon, or turn it into a cage match or something




----------



## USAUSA1

I guess Hijo Del Santo,Octagon,LA Park and Wagner will never lose their masks.

I know AAA love La Parka but I think the Roldans can convince him to lose his mask if they want him too.


----------



## Corey

> AAA announced that they will be holding a show in Japan on October 26 at the Korakuen Hall in Tokyo. The event is being dubbed "Lucha Libre AAA Japan tour" STAR BATTLE JAPAN 2016″.
> 
> The announced talent to be involved at this time are Rey Mysterio Jr., Pentagon Jr., Brian Cage, TAYA, Psycho Clown, and Akebono. Then there will be several promotions in Japan that will be working alongside AAA from ZERO1, NOAH, WAVE, OZ Academy, and Akebono’s Oudou promotion.
> 
> The event will be sponsored by S.P.E. (Sports Entertainment) who currently have Seiya Sanada under their talent sponsorship.


:bjpenn

This should be interesting. Korakuen has seen their fair share of CMLL joint shows so we'll see how this one goes.


----------



## ArnDaddy

Has anyone ever seen Marisela Peña show any form of emotion at all? her face never changes!


----------



## Stetho

I fuckin loved Triplemania ! Fun atmosphere, nice matches and cool twists. Fuck you Taya by the way, I was legit pissed...
Wagner vs Psycho... wow, I can't even believe it right now but that would be awesome.

Loved those tributes to Perro Aguayo and Abismo *****, that's something special about lucha to me.



ArnDaddy said:


> Has anyone ever seen Marisela Peña show any form of emotion at all? her face never changes!


She's 100% plastic.


----------



## dmgsdmgsdmgs

So what's everyone's thoughts on Dragon Lee vs. La Mascara? I thought for sure Dragon lee was my pick, but due to his amount of exposure he's been getting lately, I could see him losing the mask.


----------



## USAUSA1

La Mascara has said losing the mask gets you a better shot at wwe. That's pretty much the result.

Dr Lucha said Triplemania did 14k, a little disappointing. 16k would have been great.

I really wish they have Triplemania at another location next year. 

Best thing about mania was Texano retaining. He is the best guy for the job.


----------



## Corey

dmgsdmgsdmgs said:


> So what's everyone's thoughts on Dragon Lee vs. La Mascara? I thought for sure Dragon lee was my pick, but due to his amount of exposure he's been getting lately, I could see him losing the mask.


My money has always been and is still on La Mascara losing. Even though the name clearly represents him wearing a mask, his gimmick doesn't need it and I've always felt like he was the type of guy that doesn't look right wearing one (if that makes sense).


----------



## xsw

I think if La Mascara was losing they would have Mistico II vs him... Dragon Lee makes it harder to guess... if it draws a half house it would probably come down to who is the "team player"... if it is a full house La Mascara might as well say "this is it for me". There's some "meta" stuff going down here... Psycho Clown winning big (again) makes him the top "Alvarado family" guy by a long shot, (the original Brazos have lost stip matches so many times they're the butt monkeys in lucha, EVERYONE takes La Mascara or any Brazo losing for granted), will CMLL care enough to counter Psycho's win with one of their own? 

It seems CMLL and Ellite have parted ways... wouldn't be surprised if Ellite goes back to Hijo del Santo's if they think Santo III will make an impact... but what does it means for some Ellite guys like Cibernetico or LA Park? (thinking 'stico goes to CMLL)


----------



## Stetho

Rush avenging his brother would be a great story...

Elite without CMLL would lose a big amount of my interest. I guess it couldn't last forever, good if they stop throwing money at everyone.


----------



## USAUSA1

I wouldn't be surprise if Cibernetico returns to AAA if that's the case.


----------



## xsw

Since 'tico is surely sticking with CMLL, the doors are open for Ellite to bring in Alberto, they're the ones willing to pay more... 99.4% of the lucha crowds don't care or follow dirtsheets so an Alberto vs LA Park feud, + Hijo del Santo with his son is enough of a draw for them... the funny thing is that now they'll probably be offering big paydays to CMLL guys (and TV exposure if they're keeping the TV deal) to jump in... not many CMLL workers could actually jump... maybe Shocker or Maximo since they can go back when they wanted and nothing would happen, but others have Paco's wrath to consider...


----------



## Stetho

Well, no surprise !
La Sombra was there, which is cool.


----------



## Corey

Here he is! Dragon Lee was apparently booed throughout the entire match because... idk.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/771926910062432256
The show is up on Youtube for only $2.99 but it says it's not available in my country? The United States? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N--BkaQyUV8


----------



## dmgsdmgsdmgs

Fucking bummed. Was planning on watching this this morning. Let me knlw if any of you figure out a way to watch it


----------



## Corey

dmgsdmgsdmgs said:


> Fucking bummed. Was planning on watching this this morning. Let me knlw if any of you figure out a way to watch it


It's back up on Youtube with a new link for rental in the US: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSsN75KXpiM


----------



## Stetho

What's with these camera shots, looks like something taken by a fan.


----------



## Rah

Here's some Cara Lucha matches, I'm sure some were dying to see:

*Máscara Dorada y Hechicero vs Flamita y Ángel Blanco Jr.* - said to be excellent






*Xtreme Tiger vs Flamita*


----------



## Corey

Someone upped the Anniversary show on XWT. (Y)


----------



## Stetho

Thank you!

Aus Suicide vs Daga is happening :woo


----------



## HOJO

Dragon Lee/Mascaras :done


----------



## USAUSA1

For the sake of lucha libre Demon/Park and Wagner/Psycho mask matches have to happen. For the culture. Atlantis/Rush as well. 

Wwc has horrible production but I actually watch the last episode and I like the raw energy even in front of 30 fans. I don't know the wrestlers names but these two guys beat the hell out of each other.

I like the rumor Mundo/Garza match up, Garza is over. People just want to root for the guy. Aaa need to take advantage of that.


----------



## Vårmakos

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/775138253871742976


----------



## USAUSA1

I don't know if he trying to help or hurt Sombra stock. Maybe hhh sees that and give Sombra a fast push. It is crazy Dorada will be on raw before Sombra.


----------



## Stetho

Finally finished el 83 Aniversario. La Mascara vs Dragon Lee started slowly but it turned up into something nice in the end. Rush rejecting his brother was a cool thing, Dragon Lee looked legit sad  Too bad the crowd fucked it up tho.
The undercard was okay but nothing that felt special enough.


----------



## Corey

Finally got around to watching the Anniversary Show, or at least the top two matches from it.  Didn't really care enough to watch the rest.

*Sky Team vs. The Guerreros for the Trios Titles* was a more spaced out version of the matches they normally have, but it was still really good. It felt major with the trading of nearfalls between Volador & UG in the 3rd fall and there was a bunch of nifty reversals and flips and shit. Built to a pretty nice peak at the end there but I wish Volador hadn't gotten the win so easily. Should've traded some moves first. **** 1/2*

*Dragon Lee vs. La Mascara* was probably about as good a match as you could hope for from two guys who'd never been in this position before. I didn't initially like the start cause I thought it was way too much about Rush, but they recovered from it really nicely and had a great 3rd fall that got a lot of time. There was _so_ much drama in all those pin attempts, it was ridiculous. Tirantes is still the worst ref in all of wrestling and thank god we didn't have to see Dragon Lee botch another one man Spanish Fly. **** 3/4*

Trying to get back into the groove with CMLL now that I'm settled in and caught up. Got two title matches coming up next week:

*CMLL (MON) 09/19/2016 Arena Puebla*
6) ***** Casas & Shocker *©* vs Mistico & Volador Jr. *[CMLL TAG]*
_11th defense_

*CMLL (TUE) 09/20/2016 Arena México*
5) Mephisto © vs Titán *[CMLL WELTER]*
_3rd defense_


----------



## Corey

Big show for CMLL this Friday.


----------



## Corey

Mephisto vs. Titan last night was really good. Started slow but the 3rd fall had the crowd going nuts with all the nearfalls and drama. I thought for sure Titan was gonna win it after he fought out of the Devil's Wings several times but finally got caught with it at the end. *** 3/4


----------



## Corey

Volador vs. Cavernario in the Reyes del Aire Final next week. No clue why it didn't happen tonight (seems like Volador was confused to) but whatever. The torneo was really fun for a long time until it got sloppy and confusing when it came down to those two and Mephisto. None of the pin breakups made any sense. :lol A fan of both guys but definitely rooting for Cavernario to pull the upset. He should win it and then get a title shot where Volador retains. Book it!

Rush vs. Taven was really good too. Taven actually pinned him CLEAN to win the first fall. Clean! I can't remember the last time I've seen Rush lose a fall without some kind of cheating or interference. That was crazy. Lots of brawling in the 2nd and then a Taven showcase in the 3rd fall. He damn near broke his neck on a dive. Kinda scary. *** 1/2

Dragon Rojo Jr. (c) vs. Angel de Oro Monday night in Puebla for whatever title he's got.


----------



## Stetho

Fuck, wanted a result tonight too. Same as you, rooting for the caveman!


----------



## Rah

Rush vs Alberto Del Rio





Mascara Dorada vs Fenix


----------



## Koyomi

Fenix left AAA and will use "Rey Fénix" now as independent


----------



## Concrete

Koyomi said:


> Fenix left AAA and will use "Rey Fénix" now as independent


The weirdness of 2016 continues.

Maybe it is considered less weird since we could see this coming pretty clearly but it still is weird to see a major part of Lucha Underground leave AAA. I THINK he still does LU? Has anyone done this move yet though?


----------



## USAUSA1

Its not weird anymore to me. We live in a new era now. Its sad US indies pay better than the top promotions in Mexico and US Indies pay is crap too. 

I wonder if Pentagon will follow his path?


----------



## Corey

*Lucha Libre AAA Japan Tour “STAR BATTLE JAPAN 2016”, 10/26/2016 [Wed] 19:00 @ Korakuen Hall in Tokyo*

(1) Primera Lucha: KENSO [FREE], Faby Apache, Pimpinela Escarlata & Dinastia vs. Toshizo [FREE (Ryuji Hijikata)], Natsu Sumire, Mamba & Mini Abismo *****
(2) Lucha De Extremo: Jack Evans & Angelico vs. Masato Tanaka & Ikuto Hidaka [both ZERO1]
(3) High Fly Triple Threat: Drago vs. Taiji Ishimori [NOAH] vs. Aero Star
(4) Lucha De International: DAGA & TAYA vs. Australian Suicide & Aja Kong
(5) Revancha De Triplemania 24: Psycho Clown vs Pagano
(6) Lucha De Super Estrellas: Rey Mysterio, Akebono [Oudou] & Naomichi Marufuji [NOAH] vs. Pentagon Jr., Brian Cage & El Texano Jr.

[Side note: appears the event will air on AAA Sin Limite]


----------



## Corey

Cavernario won the Reyes del Aire tonight in the shadiest and shittiest of finishes. These matches are good but the booking makes it all seem worthless in the end. He made a challenge to Volador for a title match next week which was accepted. They said they both wanted a hair match down the line.


----------



## 777

Pagano vs Psycho Clown has definitely been lucha libre's feud of the year. Every match was both riveting and brutal.


----------



## Stetho

Fuck yeah


----------



## Vårmakos

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/789865714740039680


----------



## Stetho

How fuckin retarded is this, Roldan...


----------



## Corey




----------



## 777

I try to watch AAA Worldwide every week, but given my travels through this forum it never fails to amaze me just how few fans are watching this show in North America. Especially these last few years given the popularity of LU. We have a whole new level of discussion happening surrounding women's wrestling and I'm literally the only one to mention the Apaches. It baffles me to some extent.


----------



## Rah

Most especially because Mexico treated Apaches as a big deal back in 2011 when they versed Los Traumas. Should probably be one of the first matches to point to in showing that Intergender wrestling _can_ work.


__________
*Arkángel de la Muerte vs. Solar (17/10/2000 CMLL) *- I was all ready to start gushing over this, when I found it a couple days back. I'm almost sure that this hasn't been in circulation before, and the names made me wonder if this could possibly be a nifty little find. Well, it wasn't.

This was a great respite in my appreciation for Solar, who's pretty much washed up, at this point, and has been for the last couple years. He was losing a step in 2014, and it seems he regained it with two left feet. Here, though, he's much younger (well, if 44 is young) and vaulting around like a heavier Rey Mysterio. It's beautiful, even if the work within the match isn't. 

This is a title bout, the sacred match type for the older lucha fans, who were here in their droves, in the hopes of seeing some beautiful matwork. Both men are accomplished technicians, but this wasn't the matwork classic I had predicted. 

Instead, both men put on a disjointed story interwoven with some rather poor choice of selling and transitions from Muerte. As example, Solar hits a desperation Quedebrada about halfway into the second caida, igniting the fans in a frenzied uproar of support. It should have been an opening for a control segment from Solar, but Muerte jumped straight back up and took over, again, as if nothing had happened (Solar sold the move more, and he delivered it!). 

Moreover, the narrative never quite made sense. Solar, the challenger, dominates Muerte in the first fall, making him out to be a chump and taking the win easily. Normally, lucha would allow the rudo to regain (Muerte) control by having him cheat, in some way. Here, though, Muerte is the one outdoing Solar. Sure, he's using power moves and strikes and that's allowing him an advantage, but that's basic lucha 101. Rudos punch, tecnicos fly. Muerte shouldn't dominate that easily. He also shouldn't dominate by throwing out his own aerial trickery, and outdoing Solar.

The caidas are sparsely wrestled, even if there's action happening, only to pick up steam minutes before the falls. The finish was the last pip in the lemon that soured what I thought was a holy grail. Muerte's powerbomb looked vicious, but he just pulled it out of nowhere and almost as if he didn't give a fuck about being in the ring, anymore. If he's that accomplished in beating Solar, who was now using sneaky rollups to win, why the blue fuck are you starting the match with such a decisive first fall win for Solar?











Pretty much my reaction after the finish, as well.


________________
Hopefully these other newly found matches deliver, then.

*Blue Panther & El Hijo Del Santo vs ***** Casas & Scorpio Jr (13/10/2000 CMLL) - Relevos Increíbles
El Dandy, Máscara Mágica, ***** Casas vs Bestia Salvaje, Mano Negra, Mocho Cota (13/01/1995 CMLL)*


Scorpio bleeds like a stuffed pig. High expectations for it, considering the same four men had a helluva match in 1998.


----------



## Stetho

Holy shit it's happening


----------



## USAUSA1

Hopefully, lucha needs a shot in the arm but psycho definitely losing.


----------



## CrystalFissure

https://zippy.gfycat.com/UniformAjarChimneyswift.webm

From Ángel de Oro, Dragón Lee, Volador Jr. vs Cavernario, Felino, ***** Casas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjM2NZDkzX0


----------



## Rah

Meanwhile on the indies










____

Jokes aside, Lucha is the most beautiful style in wrestling.


----------



## USAUSA1

Aaa posting old matches and they're great.


----------



## Rah

This wasn't a classic, or anything really close, but it lived up to my expectations. Violent and gritty from the start with an awesome, AWESOME comeback in the segunda. Bullshit ref & ending aside, this was a neat appetizer for a possible apuesta. Super fun stuff.


----------



## USAUSA1

Next year’s TripleMania will take place August 26, 2017.


----------



## Corey

This thread has been a total dead zone. It's a new year so let's get some new discussion going? Gona get back into watching/keeping up with CMLL. Big title match tonight and then a HUGE show on Friday:
*
CMLL (MON) 01/02/2017 Arena Puebla*
6) Volador Jr. *©* vs La Máscara *[NWA WELTER]*
_13th defense_

*CMLL (FRI) 01/06/2017 Arena México*
1) Estrellita, La Vaquerita, Marcela vs Amapola, Dalys, Zeuxis
2) Rey Cometa vs Cavernario
3) Blue Panther, Blue Panther Jr., The Panther vs ***** Casas, Puma, Tiger
4) Volador Jr. vs Mephisto
5) La Máscara & Rush vs Marco Corleone & Máximo Sexy
6) Valiente vs Último Guerrero
7) Atlantis, Carístico, Mistico vs Euforia, Gran Guerrero, Niebla Roja

THREE singles matches, all rematches from the best bouts of 2016. Never seen anything like this from CMLL and neither has thecubsfan.


----------



## ArnDaddy

Corey said:


> THREE singles matches, all rematches from the best bouts of 2016.


If it isn't too much of a ballache for you, Could you (or maybe someone else in the know like Bolainas) point me in the direction of some of the best matches in the last year or so from CMLL. I have a bit of time on my hands coming up so I'd like to catch some of the better matches from recent times. You don't have to include the links if its too much hassle, just a list of some of your faves would be much appreciated.

Also I'd really like to watch some more ***** Casas stuff, so if anyone knows of any of the best\biggest matches from his career I'd love to see them too. Sorry its a bit cheeky, Don't worry if you don't want to do it!


----------



## Corey

ArnDaddy said:


> If it isn't too much of a ballache for you, Could you (or maybe someone else in the know like Bolainas) point me in the direction of some of the best matches in the last year or so from CMLL. I have a bit of time on my hands coming up so I'd like to catch some of the better matches from recent times. You don't have to include the links if its too much hassle, just a list of some of your faves would be much appreciated.


I got you covered:

CMLL Welterweight Championship: Mascara Dorada (c) vs. Mephisto (CMLL 2/19) *** 3/4
Ultimo Guerrero vs. Caristico (CMLL Puebla 3/21) *** 3/4
CMLL Welterweight Championship: Mascara Dorada (c) vs. Barbaro Cavernario (CMLL 3/29) *** 3/4
Ultimo Guerrero vs. Xtreme Tiger (Elite 4/15) *** 3/4
Ultimo Guerrero vs. Rush (CMLL Puebla 4/25) *** 3/4
Mascara Dorada vs. Rey Hechicero (Arena Coliseo Monterrey 5/22) *** 3/4
NWA Middleweight Championship: Ultimo Guerrero (c) vs. Stuka Jr. (CMLL 5/31) *** 3/4
Super Libre: Rush vs. L.A. Park (Elite 7/16) GREAT 
Mascara Dorada vs. Rey Escorpion (Elite 7/30) *** 3/4
Mask vs. Mask: Dragon Lee vs. La Mascara (83rd Anniversary Show) *** 3/4

Kamaitachi vs. Dragon Lee (CMLL 3/4) **** 1/4
Caristico vs. Volador Jr. (CMLL Elite 4/6, aired 4/8) ****
Angel De Oro vs. La Mascara (CMLL on Claro Sports 4/8) ****
Dragon Lee, Mascara Dorada, & Mistico vs. Ultimo Guerrero, Gran Guerrero, & Euforia (CMLL on Claro Sports 4/8) ****
Volador Jr. vs. Mascara Dorada (Liga Elite 4/29) ****
Cavernario vs. Rey Cometa (CMLL 6/10) ****
Hair Match: Cavernario vs. Rey Cometa (CMLL Grand Prix) **** 1/4
Team Mexico/CMLL vs. Team Rest of the World (CMLL Grand Prix) N/R but really good
Volador Jr. vs. KUSHIDA (CMLL 7/8) ****

Volador & Cavernario also had a couple singles matches later in the year but I wasn't watching anymore to that point.

Anything from the Elite shows you'll be able to find if you search on this channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCteHHOid_mkwm4SG7ZRZZkA

Most of the other stuff you can either find with searches on Youtube or they're on the video of the full show that's on CMLL's channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3lOpKjW4_j4PGXWLNTt4iQ. You'll just have to look to see if it was a Monday or Tuesday show and search something like LUNES 13 DE NOVIEMBRE PUEBLA or something like that.  The stuff that aired Friday night on Claro may be a little more difficult to find but I'm about 99% sure you can get it from thecubsfan's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/thecubsfan



> Also I'd really like to watch some more ***** Casas stuff, so if anyone knows of any of the best\biggest matches from his career I'd love to see them too. Sorry its a bit cheeky, Don't worry if you don't want to do it!


This, however would be right up @Rah 's alley. I'll let him handle that if he actually sees this.


----------



## ArnDaddy

Thanks a lot for that mate...Gives me a few to go at this weekend!


----------



## Corey

And btw for anyone that cares the Fantasticamania lineups were announced and the last 3 days look muy bueno. I'm pretty shocked that Rush vs. Atlantis is happening as a semi-main in Japan.

*CMLL NJPW (FRI) 01/20/2017 Korakuen Hall, Tokyo, Japan*
1) Blue Panther Jr. & Henare vs Ephesto & Will Ospreay
2) Jushin Liger, Soberano Jr., Tiger Mask vs Gedo, Jado, Raziel
3) Máximo Sexy & Stuka Jr. vs Hechicero & Okumura
4) Atlantis, David Finlay, Hiroshi Tanahashi, Kushida, Ryusuke Taguchi vs Bushi, EVIL, Naito, Rush, Sanada
5) Juice Robinson, Mistico, Volador Jr. vs Euforia, Okada, Último Guerrero
6) Titán vs Hiromu Takahashi
7) Dragón Lee *©* vs Bárbaro Cavernario *[CMLL SL]*
_4th defense_

*CMLL NJPW (SAT) 01/21/2017 Korakuen Hall, Tokyo, Japan*
1) Blue Panther Jr., Henare, Jushin Liger, Tiger Mask vs Ephesto, Gedo, Jado, Raziel
2) Stuka Jr. vs Okumura
3) Kushida, Ryusuke Taguchi, Soberano Jr. vs Bárbaro Cavernario, Okada, Will Ospreay
4) David Finlay, Dragón Lee, Hiroshi Tanahashi, Juice Robinson, Titán vs Bushi, EVIL, Hiromu Takahashi, Naito, Sanada
5) Mistico & Volador Jr. vs Euforia & Último Guerrero
6) Atlantis vs Rush
7) Máximo Sexy *©* vs Hechicero *[CMLL HEAVY]*
_9th defense_

*CMLL NJPW (SUN) 01/22/2017 Korakuen Hall, Tokyo, Japan*
1) Blue Panther Jr., Henare, Soberano Jr. vs Bárbaro Cavernario, Gedo, Jado
2) Jushin Liger, Stuka Jr., Tiger Mask vs Hechicero, Okumura, Raziel
3) Dragón Lee & Titán vs Bushi & Hiromu Takahashi
4) Juice Robinson, Máximo Sexy, Ryusuke Taguchi vs Ephesto, Okada, Will Ospreay
5) Atlantis, David Finlay, Hiroshi Tanahashi, Kushida vs EVIL, Naito, Rush, Sanada
6) Mistico vs Euforia
7) Volador Jr. vs Último Guerrero


----------



## Stetho

Looks good. I'd kill anyone for a Rush vs Ospreay tho.


----------



## Corey

Didn't get to pay as close attention as I normally would to tonight's show. Surprisingly ended up splitting time between it and the TNA One Night Only PPV.

They kept pretty much everything short. The three singles matches were probably as good as they were going to be considering nothing was at stake. UG/Valiente was my personal favorite but it was actually the only one I saw in full. :lol Really felt like a heated rivalry and they packed a lot of good stuff into the time they got. Valiente did a dive sequence where he hit one to every side of the ring that was pretty sweet. Kinda shocked he got the clean win too. *** 1/2

Came in during the 2nd fall of Cometa/Cavernario and judging by how fast the first two falls in every other match were, I can't imagine I missed much.  3rd fall was good though. Cavernario got the win and some momentum into his title match in a couple weeks. Volador/Mephisto wasn't anything too special. Usual stuff from the two.


----------



## Rah

ArnDaddy said:


> Also I'd really like to watch some more ***** Casas stuff, so if anyone knows of any of the best\biggest matches from his career I'd love to see them too. Sorry its a bit cheeky, Don't worry if you don't want to do it!


I know this statement is used a lot, and can seem quite hyperbolic, but Casas is just so great at milking the little things that you could probably put on any match of his and come away with some appreciation for what he brought. As an entertainer, there's nobody close to him. State side, Terry Funk is the only other wrestler that I'd chalk up as holding that semblance of fire in their ring work.

There's a Rayo De Jalisco trios, for instance, where Casas and Dandy just beat the tar out of each other. Lucha gets knocked online for being "unrealistic" or "too cooperative" but those two look as if they legitimately hate each other. I'm not all too fond of their 1987 title match, but many call it a 5-star affair, so your mileage may vary to mine. Seek out anything between the two, especially their apuesta matches, and the Casas/Dandy/Santo trios.

If you're into matwork, then seek out El Dandy vs Casas, Ultimo Dragon vs Casas or Hechicero vs Casas. Again, I'm not high on the Dragon/Casas match, and do believe Blue Panther dragged a better match out of Ultimo, but it's filled with juniors matwork and that's generally a style most fans enjoy (even if I'm the old man yelling at clouds). It's not an exhaustive list of his best work, but I think it's varied enough for you to take away an appreciation for Casas' skills and even find something more up your own alley. There's the classic lucha title match (Dandy/Casas), juniours matwork sprint (Dragon/Casas) and a more modern approach with power-moves interlaced (Hechicero/Casas). 

More recently, ***** Casas had career-peak feuds with Rush and Blue Panther this decade. I definitely do believe Rush/Casas needs to be watched as a programme for their hair match to be appreciated to the fullest (it's one of the best matches of the decade for me - but may look like any other "teenage beats up old man" video you'd see on World Star Hip Hop to others). Panther/Casas doesn't need an introduction - it's just glorious violence.

Rush vs ***** Casas (apuesta)
Blue Panther vs ***** Casas (lightning)
Blue Panther vs ***** Casas (apuesta)


____
Other notable matches:

***** Casas vs La Fiera
***** Casas vs Mocho Cota
***** Casas vs Bestia Salvaje


----------



## ArnDaddy

Thanks a lot mate, Great responses from the both of you. Thoroughly appreciated.


----------



## Corey

Caristico vs. Casas next Monday in Puebla! :mark:

I really don't follow AAA at all anymore. What's the expectations on this show? Mundo/Pentagon interests me and I've never seen Garza Jr.


----------



## USAUSA1

Meltzer is saying AAA might run Plaza Mexico for ttiplemania.


----------



## USAUSA1

I like how Wagner is getting Psycho family and friends to turn against him. That mask match IF it happen going to have major heat like no other.


----------



## Stetho

Yeah, I don't really have time to follow AAA weekly anymore but I'm completely hyped by this match. AAA itself doesn't give a shit about the rest of the card and the rest of the year anymore, it's all on TM25.


----------



## USAUSA1

There's no point of building the undercard this early in the game.


----------



## Corey

Caristico/Casas sucked unfortunately. Way too many shenanigans (idk the name of the little guy that comes out with Casas but jesus fuck he was way too involved in this) and lots of plodding & stalling throughout. Disappointing.


----------



## SWITCHBLADE

I still need to catch up on the past few Arena Mexico shows. Fell out of the loop from AAA and all in on CMLL now haha.


----------



## USAUSA1

It's hard to get invested in CMLL because WWE and somewhat NJPW is just raiding the best guys. They're wasting Sombra. Dragon Lee will be in the next cruiserweight tournament if he's healthy this time around. I don't mind when Indy guys move up to the WWE but CMLL or AAA should not be treated in the same light as an US/UK indy. Different standards

Sadly for AAA, they can't control their problem. The peso is so bad in Mexico, talent like Fenix and Pentagon can make more money working US indies. The best thing that can happen to AAA is for the Roldans to sell everything to Televisa and that would completely change the landscape of wrestling.


----------



## Corey

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/821862538308648961
One of my all time favorite luchadors so that's cool news. Hope they honor him by having a bloody mask match... but they won't.


----------



## Corey

Guerra de Titanes results: http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/2017/01/21/0120-aaa-tv-results-ciudad-de-mexico-guerra-de-titanes/

Mundo/Pentagon was moved up the main event. Sounds like thecubsfan was pretty frustrated by the missed opportunity. Super Fly & Aerostar are gonna have another apuesta match so I'm sure Super Fly is gonna lose his hair now. Other than that, nothing really notable there.

Really good lineup for CMLL's Friday show next week. FINALLY pulling the trigger on Mephisto/Caristico like I thought they would've done months ago on top of a good looking main event and Ray Rowe's debut.


----------



## Stetho

Fuck Konnan for fucking everything up.
How the hell is lucha libre supposed to grow with those shitty ego wars.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Stetho said:


> Fuck Konnan for fucking everything up.
> How the hell is lucha libre supposed to grow with those shitty ego wars.


Konnan continues with this stupid shit, he's cancer as many mexican fans say. at least now there's more space for the wrestlers that continue on AAA (and hopefully Lady Shani becoming Champion this year). bet the reason for doing this was not getting the win on Guerra de Titanes and it was on the main event, Daga randomly appearing on the Cage Match and Garza Jr that lost the match with Hijo del Fantasma.

what i found interesting was this Aerostar Tweet where he's "grateful" and "loyal" to AAA, posted today after what happened yesterday.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/823182809724547073


----------



## Lazyking

So AAA is in no way at fault here for losing talent? I find that very hard to believe.


----------



## Rah

While we can certainly feel dismayed at the blow AAA has taken, especially noting the direction they were taking as early as two years ago, I don't think we can separate this entirely from AAA's own mismanagement and unwillingness to adapt. Here's a comment on Cubsfan's article that I thought worth sharing:



> The Mexican guys who made it in LU and now get booked regularly in the US are making the best money they’ve ever made in their lives so I’m happy for them. LU shouldn’t get any blame here.
> 
> AAA knew LU would lead to exposure and there was a right way to do business and a wrong way to do business. They could have worked with the wrestlers, helped them get bookings, split the pay equally so both sides benefit & spread the AAA word so they’d be known as AAA/LU superstars instead of LU superstars. Instead AAA chose to make it hard for promoters to book the talent, took a huge cut of the payoffs without telling the wrestlers & made the wrestlers need to secretly sell merchandise so the office wouldn’t find out they were making extra $ and refuse to give out their paycheques.
> 
> There is an ABUNDANCE of talent in Mexico that could step in and be turned into the next crop of young talent. It’s a never ending cycle in Mexico. The problem is two things:
> 
> 1) AAA has nobody in the office who scouts talent. If someone new joins AAA it’s because they have a personal relationship with the Roldans or someone else working in that office.
> 
> 2) AAA doesn’t want to pay for new talent. It’s pretty common knowledge down in Mexico that Dave The Clown was one of these guys who would work for free. He’d show up at shows asking to be booked for no money. Or he’d drive other wrestlers (including some AAA guys… hint hint) to shows and just hang out hoping to get a gig.
> 
> If you aren’t looking to spend money and have zero care about the quality of your own product you will end up with guys like Dave The Clown as your top acts because quite frankly nobody else wants him.


----------



## Miguel De Juan

Mexico will be first domino to fall to WWE's new global expansion. AAA will go down first. CMLL will last a bit longer but all of their top tier guys will leave eventually.

These promoters need to wake up. Mexico is coming for the last pieces of free wrestling left in the world. Time is up.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Date for Triplemania XXV has been announced, it will be on August 26, 2017 at the same place, Arena Ciudad de Mexico


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/823969701084598272
IT Seems they have already Scheduled the whole road to Triplemania: Toluca, Cuautitlán, Tlaxcala, Monterrey, Ciudad Juárez, Aguascalientes, Neza, San Luis


----------



## Stetho

The main event is probably gonna sell itself but who else relevant do they have for the rest of the card ? Pagano, Texano, Mesias, maybe Cage. They'll probably have the stupid idea of making another offer to Alberto.

Mexico just can't get its shit together. Just in the past few months we had Elite and The Crash putting chaos into everything. I'm no expert but I think NJPW is strong right now cause they're not wasting time and energy fighting other Japanese companies. Of course AAA and CMLL aren't going to die anytime soon but future really doesn't look bright if everyone keep with this bullshit. Plus, WWE is gonna make a mexican move soon...

Maybe it's stupid but I really think the sky would have been clearer if Perrito was still there.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Stetho said:


> The main event is probably gonna sell itself but who else relevant do they have for the rest of the card ? Pagano, Texano, Mesias, maybe Cage. They'll probably have the stupid idea of making another offer to Alberto.
> 
> Mexico just can't get its shit together. Just in the past few months we had Elite and The Crash putting chaos into everything. I'm no expert but I think NJPW is strong right now cause they're not wasting time and energy fighting other Japanese companies. Of course AAA and CMLL aren't going to die anytime soon but future really doesn't look bright if everyone keep with this bullshit. Plus, WWE is gonna make a mexican move soon...
> 
> Maybe it's stupid but I really think the sky would have been clearer if Perrito was still there.


I think Psycho Clown will lose as he remarked on a interview he wanted to be a Alvarado or something like that i don't remember right now.

Rest of the card Could be; Texano defending his title?, Wagner group vs the Clowns? Hijo del Fantasma vs somebody, Averno vs Faby Apache?

I'm not sure but AAA would accept to be Mexican parter of WWE, who knows.


----------



## Corey

Mephisto retained over Caristico in what I guess was a solid enough match. They went all out in the 3rd fall but I had a hard time caring after they put such little effort into the first two and they botched the fuck out of the finish to the 2nd. Been disappointed with CMLL so far this year tbh.


----------



## USAUSA1

Aaa have loss bigger talent and survive. Aaa and cmll have a loyal and huge following in Mexico that the promotion will never die.No talent will ever be as important. 

Aaa is actually back to normal.


----------



## SWITCHBLADE

Watched Mephisto vs. Caristico from the Arena Mexico show. Pretty good but could've been so much better.


----------



## Stetho

https://www.instagram.com/p/BP79m3uBHaZ/

A new lucha promotion by another unreliable guy ? How surprising.


----------



## USAUSA1

I wonder if Trump will put a ban on Mexicans? Never know with him.


----------



## Hencheman_21

Anyone else having El Rey blocked on their provider? I turned on a couple days ago and it said something about difficulties. Then last night it says Univision, or whoever the parent company for El Rey is, I forget, had pulled it even though they had a multiyear contract. I know LU is on break right now but this will suck if it continues when they come back not to mention I love some of the movies El Rey shows on Mondays and Fridays. Grrrr damn greed.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

briancage So since this guy is getting all kinds of press lately, and a lot of negative feed back from the wrestling community, I got a kick out of this meme @ofiki10 posted on Twitter. Dude straight rips off my gimmick in rival organization for @cmll in mexico after trump wins. Which is 2 and half years, or more after I started doing it in mexico, with @luchalibreaaa. Now he's on @nbcnews @yahoosports @CNN and this mother acting like he just thought of it on his on. Give me a break. Some real crap journalism going around with no credited and accurate reporting being represented. How bout you guys ask about me or at least mention my name. #fnmachine #teamtrump #diditfirst #diditbest #mainevent #triplemaniaxxiv #doyourresearch #dontripoffmyshit #madewrestlinggreatagain


----------



## Stetho

Wow, missed this post. Completely agree with Cage on this one and I had the same reaction when I saw all the Sam Adonis buzz.









Strong card actually.


----------



## Corey

Speaking of lineups, we've got one with two good looking title matches and an AWFUL main event:

*CMLL (FRI) 03/17/2017 Arena México
Homenaje a Dos Leyendas, 2017 (Villano III & Salvador Lutteroth)*

1) Estrellita, Marcela, Princesa Sugehit vs Amapola, Tiffany, Zeuxis
2) Dragón Lee, Stuka Jr., Titán vs Euforia, Gran Guerrero, Niebla Roja
3) Atlantis, Carístico, Marco Corleone vs Kráneo, La Máscara, Rush
4) Matt Taven vs Último Guerrero *© [NWA MIDDLE]*
_tenth defense_
5) Mistico, Valiente, Volador Jr. *©* vs Ephesto, Luciferno, Mephisto *[CMLL TRIOS]*
_ninth defense_
6) Pierroth vs Diamante Azul *[mask]*


----------



## Corey

Of ALL the people that New Japan could send over to CMLL...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/835570294664409092


----------



## SWITCHBLADE

Watched Cavernario & Volador Jr. vs Último Guerrero & Valient from the latest Arena Mexico event. Great match and the best Arena Mexico Match of the Year so far. ****


----------



## Stetho

Just watched it, really nice indeed. So fuckin love Cavernario


----------



## dmgsdmgsdmgs

Damn Diamante Azul vs. Pierroth for the mask...who ya'll got on that?


----------



## Corey

dmgsdmgsdmgs said:


> Damn Diamante Azul vs. Pierroth for the mask...who ya'll got on that?


thecubsfan said Pierroth already lost his mask like 20 years ago or something so it seems more likely he'll lose it again here. Don't care for either guy though tbh.


----------



## Rah

Comadante Pierroth lost his mask as Poder Mexica in 2002. Gimmick changes don't affect masks, so he's never technically "lost" his mask, currently.

The obvious money is on Diamante winning. CMLL were relatively high on him when wrestled as Metro, and the Azul gimmick is a clear rib/cosplay of Blue Demon. I highly doubt CMLL will piss away that gimmick any time, soon.

Besides, Pierroth's wrestled a vast amount of his career unmasked. I wonder whose father he is. :hmm:


Spoiler: Commandante Pierroth


----------



## Corey

This could be a hoot:


----------



## Corey

Hey @Yeah1993


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/839319036035022848


----------



## Corey

Haven't watched this yet but @Rah @Yeah1993 thought you guys might be interested.


----------



## Yeah1993

Corey said:


> Haven't watched this yet but @Rah @Yeah1993 thought you guys might be interested.


I saw that in my sub feed yesterday, watching it later today after I catch up on New Japan a little bit. I'm very worried I have too high an expectation for it after their amazing crazy mess last year. Not to mention the vid I saw yesterday didn't have THAT as a thumbnail, so my expectations are even higher now.


----------



## Corey

Gonna go with a high *** 1/2 for tonight's Cometa/Cavernario title match. Definitely the weakest of their matches together but I kind of expected considering it was on a Tuesday show.  Not much to see in the first two falls but the tercera is really good stuff. The finish honestly surprised me. Thought they were gonna go longer and do more crazy shit.

Starts at 1 hour, 50 minutes:


----------



## Rah

Corey said:


> Haven't watched this yet but @Rah @Yeah1993 thought you guys might be interested.












:sodone:sodone


----------



## 777

Was watching AAA Worldwide this morning, looking forward to the advertised Rey de Reyes triple champion triple threat featuring Mundo/Texano/Fantasma. Can't imagine this not being really good.


----------



## Corey

Homenaje dos Leyendas is up on Youtube for a $2.99 rental. I'll probably pay sometime this week for it. Gives you a 3 minute preview too.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Rey de Reyes's Today!










Also Wonder what's going on with Jeff Jarrett and AAA


----------



## Corey

Is anything from AAA actually worth watching this year? Haven't really heard good things.


----------



## Flair Shot

Oh look Taya is gonna defend her title for the 3rd time in her almost 3 year long reign.


----------



## Stetho

Superfly vs Aerostar looks great, the rest is filler.
And Jarrett will be there?


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Stetho said:


> Superfly vs Aerostar looks great, the rest is filler.
> And Jarrett will be there?


He's There

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/843629974326190081


----------



## Stetho

Holy shit, so many questions with this show.
So glad for Mundo. Seems to me that that AAA just cemented its win against The Crash today.


----------



## USAUSA1

It's not a win, just business as usual. Not sure how true it is but if Dejoseph helping Vampiro book,aaa upgraded.

Like I've predicted, aaa will be fine maybe even better from a financial standpoint. You can tell Konnan and friends were really the problem for aaa money issues for years. 

Fast forward to crash. They are booking everyone, it's Pwg on steroids. They can't be making any money. No paying tv deal to help. I've seen this story before. Expect some of those guys to return. Zorro was smart to leave aaa on a good note, don't burn bridges.


----------



## xsw

*AAA "won" when Alberto went with Tiniebla Jr group, now they'll succed or fail but it will be bc their doing (I think Fantasma and Texano will betray Psycho) and not becasue Alberto hijacked it.

CMLL will be OK as long as they an repackage guys to lose masks matches... kinda funny that now is kinda evident Manny was the creative force behind Los Ingobrnables...

A while back TV Azteca said they give up on producing soap operas and that t was cheapr to buy stuff... so I don't understand how Ellite couldn't keep their thing going... better luck for the future, hopefully.... Crash should be namesd "countdown to Konnan's shoot on Crash guys" when they miss paying the ton of money he's spending...

 *


----------



## Corey

Fuckin CMLL streams 3 shows a week and of course they'd do this on one of the other ones that no one sees. :lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/845851777182380032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/845852193794244608


----------



## Rah

Cubsfan noted that simply as this when the lineup came out; chuckled



> CMLL’s Saturday show has Dragon Rojo defending his title against Angel de Oro (with no real thought of a title change.)



It's so CMLL, though.


----------



## Stetho

Damn, Joaquin Roldan is dead


----------



## Punkhead

Stetho said:


> Damn, Joaquin Roldan is dead


Any source for this? I tried searching, but couldn't find anything.

Edit: found a news report and AAA tweeted it.

R.I.P.


----------



## SWITCHBLADE

Stetho said:


> Damn, Joaquin Roldan is dead


Just saw it on my FB feed. Damn. :frown2:


----------



## MR-Bolainas

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/850623142133366784
RIP Mr Roldan

According to Rudo Rivera (AAA's Announcer) Cause of Death was Cancer,


----------



## xsw

Unfortunate news...:frown2: On screen, Joaquin just picked up Antonio Peña's "benevolent authority figure" persona and it worked for them... behind the screen he was involved in the promotion for decades, guess Dorian will have to step in, maybe that will help Vampiro (and DeJoseph?) have more freedom, Marisela controls the money so I doubt anything will change and we will see the usual people coming and going (and talking trash)

Fishman also passed away... he's a guy who got the opportunity to work in EMLL when most of their big stars left for the "UWA". In a very short span, he won several big mask (from people who also got their shot with the big stars leaving) matches which placed him in the top superstar tier, although bc of injury, or lifestyle his performance diminished greatly... most "internet nerds" can't figure out why Fishman was one of the most beloved legends....:hmmm


----------



## Stetho

Holy shit Pagano's fuckin badass in the last AAA episode, he's getting on Pentagon level now


----------



## ArnDaddy

Does anyone have a HD link for Hamada-Taya? Not sure if it has aired yet but I've heard it was amazing...


----------



## Flair Shot

ArnDaddy said:


> Does anyone have a HD link for Hamada-Taya? Not sure if it has aired yet but I've heard it was amazing...


From yesterday? That has not aired yet.


----------



## Corey

Thought someone may or may not be interested in seeing this. Just happened last week.


----------



## Rah

I do believe Navarro would match up the best with Sabre but my heart's far more interested in the eventual Hechicero/Sabre wizardry. I think the latter could either be truly great (Hechicero is still the best base in wrestling not named Cesaro) but both are very prone to shoe-horning new things into every match and that may make for a match that's more masturbatory matwork than something truly exceptional as they're capable of.

Remember when an Indy promotion wanted to run Timothy Thatcher against these guys like a year and a half ago and then nothing every came of that? Haha. Fun times. Fuck it.


----------



## Stetho

For fuck sake, El Apache passed out now.
Is there some kind of malediction on AAA?

QEPD


----------



## MR-Bolainas

RIP El Apache, Based Teacher taught many wrestlers. Cause of death was Stomach Cancer.


----------



## USAUSA1

Very sad to hear.


----------



## Corey

This could be pretty nifty:


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Lucha Libre AAA "Gloria a la Llave" 3rd Tryout today


























Some wrestlers who took part of it:

Princesa Mohicana, Samira, Blue Danger, Lilith Dark, Caly, Bomberita, Sexy Ángel, Lady Cat, Diosa Atenea, Muñeca de Plata, Stephanie Vaquer, Hahastary, Taylor Wolf, Royer Boy, Angelikal among others


----------



## ArnDaddy

Hamada-Taya was worth the wait, I enjoyed it a lot. Recommend searching for it on AAA's youtube channel if you get chance.


----------



## jiraffejustin

*MS1 vs Sangre Chicana - EMLL 9/23/83*

This match feels like a legitimate contender for the greatest match of all-time. It's the most brutal match of all-time, and it doesn't need barbed wire, light tubes, tables, ladders, a steel cage, fire, thumbtacks, or any other "foreign" or "international" object. It just needs two dudes being badasses. They punch each other in the face, and they dive full bore at one another. The beauty in this brutal match is the selling, especially from Chicana. He gives himself completely to his role, and it's a sell job better than anything you'll see this year. He gets jumped pre-bell, and he sells the beat down the whole match. He is bleeding all over the place, and has this dazed look on his face as he fights through loss of blood and what I guess would be considered "concussion like symptoms" nowadays. But both guys do a tremendous job selling the exhaustion, blood loss, and magnitude of this match. It feels on par with some of the greatest acting performances in some of my favorite films, which is something that I rarely ever see in pro wrestling. This match was a revelation to me, and I'll hold it in the same regard as I do my other favorite pieces of art.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

ArnDaddy said:


> Hamada-Taya was worth the wait, I enjoyed it a lot. Recommend searching for it on AAA's youtube channel if you get chance.


They uploaded the whole match here


----------



## Corey

Cobb pulled out so that match with Hechicero won't happen. Satanico is the replacement. Got this interesting looking match though:










And as usual, I haven't watched these yet but figured someone out there would be interested:


----------



## xsw

Gran Apache never go the credit he deserved... they should make a big homage for him in Triplemania. Probably AAA's biggest loss at least since Peña. Who knows... maybe he prepared people to take over with the training of noobs, even Ayako may be helping considering they got lots of ladies in the recent tryouts.

In CMLL Soberano winning Copa Junior was the right call but it was kinda odd they kept building Dinamitas juniors as the babyfaces...


----------



## Jay Valero

MR-Bolainas said:


> They uploaded the whole match here


Love me some Taya.


----------



## xsw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/865742929809342464


Psycho Clown thought he was auditioning to play Buddy Repperton in the Christine remake... :grin2:

OK, it's not funny... Seemingly, the Alvarado (The Brazos) tried a power play to keep the leadership of the luchadors union in their family... quoting Cercei, if you play the game of thrones, you win or you die, so this has to end with Ultimo Guerrero or Mascara/Maximo out of the promotion, but it is CMLL, they probably are used to have warring factions within the company all the time...

:surprise:


----------



## Stetho

Sick, they're not in CMLL anymore it seems.
Can't deny there's a part of me that find this story super badass.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Hope they don't end on AAA now with Psycho and Goya there...

and probably with this, Psycho will lose his Mask now as it has been rumoured but who knows.


----------



## xsw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/866073924110503936
So Guerrero prevailed and it was pretty fast. This is something that will change the Lucha landscape simply because they're at least 2 dozen Brazos around... but I doubt it will be overnight, everyone will stay put in CMLL for a while. I think original Mistico may be a winner here, Andrade, Mascara Dorada, and the 2 Alvarados gone make CMLL to lack some main event power... wonder if Averno returns as it seems Mephisto losing his mask may be in the cards. Every group will want to push someone in their ranks into the main event spots, so more power struggles could occur.

AAA already moving in trying to spin the story around, so they'll be working there soon. Pimpi/Mamba are opening card guys so I doubt Maximo will end there, if Averno does leave, I gues OGT are done and Chessman returns with Black Family while Teano Jr and Hijo del Fantasma join Alvarados in "El Consejo" reborn. This actually makes Psycho Clown less likely to lose his mask, maybe AAA had figured he would eventually jump to CMLL so wanted to cash in now, but with that door closed... Could be interesting if some of the no-name Alvarados are repackaged to round up the AAA stables, it worked great when they did that w Psycho Clown so they may get lucky again -but with Gran Apache gone, won't be easy.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

"Kobra Moon" & Kevin Kross vs Ayako Hamada & Dr. Wagner Jr





Main Event of AAA/EMW Show two days ago on Tijuana, this is the Mexico Debut of the Kobra Moon Gimmick and i think outside LU Temple too.


----------



## USAUSA1

You see how aaa just bounce into talent by luck. It never ends, Mexico is so deep and conflicted.


----------



## Rah

MR-Bolainas said:


> Hope they don't end on AAA now with Psycho and Goya there...
> 
> *and probably with this, Psycho will lose his Mask now as it has been rumoured but who knows.*


Or Wagner claims there's no reason to wager his mask as everyone now knows Psycho Clown's identity.


----------



## Corey

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/866766938365624323
Well damn. Heavyweight and light heavyweight titles are now vacant as well.


----------



## xsw

Rah said:


> Or Wagner claims there's no reason to wager his mask as everyone now knows Psycho Clown's identity.


LA Park's identity has been known for nearly two decades, and Wagner has not complained... :wink2:

Good to see Kobra Moon but kinda looking more to seeing Lady Shani and La Hiedra in Lucha Underground than LU people in AAA


----------



## Corey

Marco Corleone won the CMLL Heavyweight Title last night and in typical CMLL fashion, they didn't do the match in Arena Mexico for the Tuesday Youtube show...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/872299608847904768


----------



## Stetho

Good for him, I think it was the right call!


----------



## Corey

Stetho said:


> Good for him, I think it was the right call!


Thank god he's at least an actual heavyweight. :lol


----------



## xsw

Gran Alternativa final later tonight... no way Soberano has a chance winning copa Jr a few weeks ago unless there's a turn involved and Soberano joining Guerreros Laguneros which is waaay to complicated for CMLL but I'm guessing next week(s) will have both rookies main eventing as a fall out to this tourney as they (maybe) start building to the anniversary


----------



## Stetho

Aaaand he won


----------



## Stetho

Gotta love lucha libre


----------



## xsw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/877259133220769793
Who needs Pikachu planes when you can take Wagner's??>

And yeah, CMLL can surprise at times, Ultimo Guerrero had some big pops and chants at the start (and at other points) and 'ristico got booed to hell so it looked as if it was gonna be a loooong night for tecnicos but Soberano tagged in and got cheered even before doing anything, the "cool fans" tried to fight it but eventually gave up. Fun match.

Semi-related: Hijo del Santo has been working on Santo III (will be alled Junor) for a while and these kind of tourneys is what both Santo and CMLL need but they just won't bury the hatchet. Will be interesting to see if and how can Santo Jr get over or if he flops, then we see more original gimmicks?


----------



## Rah

Here's the Satanico/Morgan turn from 3 weeks before their amazing hair match! 






Lots of Satanico/Solar exchanges!


----------



## Corey

Lineup looks great thus far. Last year's show was a favorite of mine. I doubt they will, but I'd love it if they did this on iPPV again.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/880200638700949504


----------



## Corey

Universal Final is this Friday. Not sure how I feel about the match. I'm a big fan of both UG and Volador but I prefer to see them face other people. Chances are I'll probably enjoy it though.  Also a hair match on the show that should be terrible.


----------



## wrestling_fan_03

Hi guys 

How do I watch AAA events in English commentary?


----------



## Flair Shot

Taya is done with AAA and Sexy Star is the new Reinda da Reinas champion.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/886766012292517889

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/886764353071890432


----------



## Jay Valero

Flair Shot said:


> Taya is done with AAA and Sexy Star is the new Reinda da Reinas champion.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/886766012292517889
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/886764353071890432


Complete and utter bullshit. Fuck AAA and fuck Vampiro.

#weraloca


----------



## Corey

Great title match between Ultimo Guerrero & Niebla Roja tonight. Probably enjoyed it more than the Universal Final tbh. Roja didn't fall for as many of UG's antics as you normally see and the crowd was real hot for it. Good bumping and selling too. *** 3/4


----------



## Stetho

I really like AAA but I can't defend this bullshit. Wow, fuck them for this.


----------



## Jay Valero

Stetho said:


> I really like AAA but I can't defend this bullshit. Wow, fuck them for this.


It'll get even worse when Vampiro releases a video trying to switch the heat. I thought the whole point of hiring that Milli Vanilli goof was to prevent stuff like what happened with Fenix and Pentagon from repeating. I guess not.


----------



## Stetho

Yeah exactly, I thought Vampiro came in to change this but it's exactly the same kind of situation... 
They have a huge potential, they should have grown big these last years but they've fucked up almost everything that started to looks good.


----------



## Jay Valero

And all just to make Sexy Star happy. Um, bitch, didn't you quit wrestling? I guess being married to the 103rd ranked pussyweight buys you a lot in Mexico.


----------



## Flair Shot

> On today’s Wrestling Observer Radio, Dave Meltzer says AAA then asked Johnny Mundo to bring the belt to 06/30 taping in Puebla. Johnny didn’t know anything was up, so he brought and had no problem leaving it with AAA when they told him they needed to shoot some photos of it. AAA posted the press release about the title being vacant the next day, not having told Mundo or Taya that was the plan.
> 
> Taya was booked in Los Angeles and was never advertised for Monterrey. (Mundo initially was advertised for Monterrey, then wasn’t on the poster when it came out.) Vampiro told the Monterrey crowd that Taya was scheduled to be in Monterrey but refused to defend the belt or come to the show, and that’s (now) why he was stripping Taya of the championship. A six way was held for the belt with the returning Sexy Star and the remaining women. Sexy Star won.


http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/

This goddamn company. :lmao

I'm glad Taya appears to finally be out of that hell hole.


----------



## TD Stinger

Flair Shot said:


> http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/
> 
> This goddamn company. :lmao
> 
> I'm glad Taya appears to finally be out of that hell hole.


You know between this, the stuff with Pentagon, Konann, etc. the polotics in Mexico just seem like a complete shit show.


----------



## Corey

You guys should just watch more CMLL. AAA is a shit show.


----------



## Jay Valero

Corey said:


> You guys should just watch more CMLL. AAA is a shit show.


Been thinking about it. But, if LU goes away I might be done with wrestling all together.


----------



## december_blue

Wow! :lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/887012736940552192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/887482680668848128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/887483623208738816


----------



## Jay Valero

Mundo absolutely wrecked Vampiro there, and he's 100% right. I hope Johnny calls up CMLL and is like "Hey, I know I work for a rival promotion and everything, but how would you like to have all three AAA belts and have your guy beat me clean in the middle of the ring?"

Fuck Dorian. Fuck AAA. Fuck Vampiro.

#weraloca


----------



## Corey

God damn Morrison went IN on Vamp. :lol


----------



## Jay Valero

december_blue said:


> Wow! :lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/887012736940552192
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/887482680668848128
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/887483623208738816


The first reply to this? Ricochet getting his popcorn ready. Somebody about to get Boone'd.


----------



## Jay Valero

Also, Taya seems to have some openings in her schedule now so she'll be appearing at Wrestlefest and, I believe, Wrestling Circus.

#weraloca


----------



## Corey

Holy shit I just realized Mundo is a triple champion in the company too. :lmao This is great!


----------



## Jay Valero

Vampiro has now blocked Taya and, oddly, Lance Storm.

Daga and Sami Callihan have tweeted support.

#weraloca


----------



## Jay Valero

Jay Valero said:


> Also, Taya seems to have some openings in her schedule now so she'll be appearing at Wrestlefest and, I believe, Wrestling Circus.
> 
> #weraloca


At Wrestlefest it's going to be Taya v Gail Kim.

Taya v Razor Pops 2 in AWS.


----------



## Jay Valero

Add Cortez Castro, the Mack, and Pentagon to Team Taya if one can judge by replies on the tweeter machine.


----------



## Stetho

Corey said:


> You guys should just watch more CMLL. AAA is a shit show.


Nay, CMLL looks like nothing interesting atm. I still had a lot more fun watching AAA...


----------



## Deadman's Hand

*Good lord what a mess this whole situation is. :lol
I'm doubtful Mundo is coming back to AAA & I don't know why they thought it was a good idea to not only piss off Taya, but to piss off the guy who's holding three of their belts & is supposed to be at TripleMania.*


----------



## xsw

Good news: Taya is gone. Bad news Sexy Star is back ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Only reason AAA had Taya was to counter the Divas from when wwe was popular, with wwe gone from open tv she was waaay past her shelf time... unfortunately this sounds like they wanted to do some "monterrey screwjob" and Taya rather claim some injury and not show up, they should have stripped from the title simply with the injury thing, but things are never simple for them. But she will still weasel her way into triplemania, they always do.


----------



## Flair Shot

Jay Valero said:


> Vampiro has now blocked Taya and, oddly, Lance Storm.
> 
> Daga and Sami Callihan have tweeted support.
> 
> #weraloca


Storm was Taya's first trainer and is a long time friend/supporter. He always checks in on her every month or so on how she's doing.


----------



## december_blue

Putting the blame elsewhere now lol.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/887516158173360129


----------



## Asuka842

AAA sounds like it's run by a bunch of people who are incompetent at best, flat-out corrupt at worst.

You've managed to piss off the guy that holds multiple top belts for you as well, good job there guys.


----------



## petersmu

Hello friends! I enjoy making wrestling challenges for myself, such as watching every Misawa title match. I'm looking to get into a new challenge of watching the best lucha libre from the 90's. So please make your recommendations for me. It will be very appreciated.


----------



## Miguel De Juan

Looks like AAA won't last much longer. They are unraveling at the seems. Shame really. Hopefully CMLL can make itself more exciting outside the friday shows and Crash can get going. It would be a shame for WWE to butcher lucha libre culture with these companies weaknesses so glaring.


----------



## Rah

petersmu said:


> Hello friends! I enjoy making wrestling challenges for myself, such as watching every Misawa title match. I'm looking to get into a new challenge of watching the best lucha libre from the 90's. So please make your recommendations for me. It will be very appreciated.


These aren't my lists (I don't have the time to give you much of a primer right now, but try these:



Spoiler: lists






> Top Lucha Libre Matches of the 1990s (DVDVR)
> 1) ***** Casas/ Atlantis/ Ultimo Dragon/ El Dandy/ Mascara Magica/ Shocker/ La Fiera/ Brazo De Oro vs. El Hijo del Santo/ Dr. Wagner, Jr./ Felino/ Scorpio, Jr./ Black Warrior/ Kevin Quinn/ Satanico/ Silver King - EMLL 4/18/97 (16 Man Cibernetico Match - 4/18/97) - 225 Points (5-0-0)
> 2) El Hijo Del Santo/Octagon vs. Love Machine/Eddy Guerrero – (AAA 11/6/94 - When Worlds Collide) - 213 (3-2-2)
> 3) Psicosis vs. Rey Misterio, Jr. (AAA 9/22/95) - 109 (1-1-1)
> 4) Juventud Guerrera vs. Rey Misterio, Jr. (AAA 4/21/95 – WWA Lightweight Title) - 107 (0-1-1)
> 5) El Hijo del Santo vs. ***** Casas vs. El Dandy (EMLL 12/6/96 - Mask vs. Hair vs. Hair) - 107 (0-0-1)
> 6) El Hijo del Santo vs. Psicosis (AAA 5/3/95 – WWA Welterweight Title) - 101 (0-3-0)
> 7) El Hijo del Santo vs. ***** Casas (EMLL 9/19/97 - Mask vs. Hair) - 95
> 8) Octagon/Santo/Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Fuerza Guerrera/Psicosis/ Blue Panther (AAA 3/16/95) - 93 (0-0-2)
> 9) Psicosis/Juventud Guerrera vs. El Volador/El Mexicano (AAA 1/12/96 - Parejas Title) - 83
> 10) Silver King vs. Apolo Dantes (EMLL 6/23/95 - Heavyweight Title) - 79 (1-1-0)
> 11) Chris Benoit vs. Villano III (UWA 1/26/92 - 19th Anniversary Show) - 53
> 12) Juventud Guerrera vs. Rey Misterio, Jr. (AAA 6/16/95 - WWA Lightweight Title) - 48
> 13) Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (Tijuana - 3/16/96) - 44
> 14) Javier Cruz vs. Ciclon Ramirez (EMLL 6/10/94 - Hair vs. Hair) - 43
> 15) Blue Panther vs. Love Machine (AAA 4/3/92 – Mask vs. Mask) - 40 (0-0-2)
> 16) Rey Misterio Jr. vs. El Hijo del Santo (Tijuana 2/21/97) - 40
> 17) Mr. Niebla vs. Dr Wagner Jr. (EMLL 9/3/97 - Light Heavyweight Title) - 40
> 18) El Hijo del Santo/ Antifaz del Norte/ Olimpico/ Tarzan Boy/ Tony Rivera/ Felino/ ***** Casas/ Emilio Charles, Jr. vs. Rey Bucanero/ Ultimo Guerrero/ Black Warrior/ Satanico/ Bestia Salvaje/ Blue Panther/ Fuerza Guerrera/ Zumbido - EMLL (16 Man Cibernetico - 11/26/99) - 36
> 19) Rey Misterio Jr./Super Calo/Winners vs. Psicosis/Canelo Casas/Picudo (AAA 1/29/93) - 32 (0-0-1)
> 20) Ciclon Ramirez vs. El Felino (EMLL 6/18/93 - two matches) - 30





> Ohtani's Jacket's Top 90s Lucha
> http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/blog/8/entry-77-20-best-lucha-matches-of-the-90s/
> 
> 1. Atlantis vs Blue Panther, 8/9/91
> 2. El Dandy vs ***** Casas, 7/3/92
> 3. Angel Azteca vs. El Dandy, 6/1/90
> 4. El Satanico/El Dandy/Emilio Charles Jr. vs. Atlantis/Javier Cruz/Angel Azteca, 5/13/90
> 5. Los Infernales (MS-1, Satanico & Pirata Morgan) vs. Los Brazos, 11/22/91
> 6. Bracito De Oro/Cicloncito Ramirez/Mascarita Magica vs Damiancito El Guerrero/El Fierito/Pierrothito, 10/3/97
> 7. Cicloncito Ramirez vs Damiancito El Guerrero, 1/7/97
> 8. Trio Fantasia v. Thundercats, (Masks vs. Masks), 12/8/91
> 9. Ciclon Ramirez vs Felino (Mask vs Mask), 7/9/93
> 10. Pirata Morgan vs El Faraon (Hair vs Hair), 11/16/90
> 11. El Hijo Del Santo vs Brazo De Oro (Mask vs Hair), 1/13/91
> 12. El Mariachi vs Blue Panther, 10/30/94
> 13. Ciclon Ramirez vs Javier Cruz (Hair vs Hair), 6/10/94
> 14. Atlantis/Brazo De Oro/El Dandy/Mascara Magica/La Fiera/***** Casas/Shocker/Ultimo Dragon vs Black Warrior/Dr. Wagner Jr./El Hijo Del Santo/Felino/Kevin Quinn/Satanico/Scorpio Jr./Silver King, 4/18/97
> 15. El Hijo del Santo vs. Felino, 7/4/97
> 16. Rayo De Jalisco Jr. vs Apolo Dantes, 5/31/96
> 17. Octagon vs Fuerza Guerrera, 11/1/91
> 18. Mascarita Sagrada vs Espectrito I, 3/12/94
> 19. Silver King vs Apolo Dantes, 6/23/95
> 20. Dr. Wagner Jr./El Hijo Del Santo/El Texano/La Fiera/Mascara Magica/Mr. Niebla/Shocker vs Black Warrior/El Dandy/Felino/Mano Negra/***** Casas/Scorpio Jr./Silver King, 3/28/97






Definite guys to check out:
***** Casas
El Hijo Del Santo
Rey Mysterio
El Satanico
Pirata Morgan
El Dandy


What style of lucha libre do you prefer? Matwork, brawling or high-flying?


----------



## petersmu

Rah said:


> These aren't my lists (I don't have the time to give you much of a primer right now, but try these:
> 
> 
> Definite guys to check out:
> ***** Casas
> El Hijo Del Santo
> Rey Mysterio
> El Satanico
> Pirata Morgan
> El Dandy
> 
> 
> What style of lucha libre do you prefer? Matwork, brawling or high-flying?


I like high-flying and matwork.


----------



## Corey

CMLL’s Anniversary show will be September 16th, two weeks after the Gran Prix. Strangely enough, it's a Saturday. No idea at all what they're building towards for the main event.


----------



## Corey

Some interesting stuff here:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/888753000889450496


----------



## Jay Valero

With Mundo going back to AAA to throw the belts at Vamp, them seeming to build toward a match between the two, and Mundo and Taya going to GFW (who is doing a talent share with AAA), this is feeling a lot more like a work.


----------



## Corey

Two important pieces of info. REALLY hyped for the Gran Prix.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/889974737052594176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/890336863579459586


----------



## december_blue

Pretty interesting.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/894574132406480896


----------



## Stetho

Called it.


----------



## Corey

Legit have no idea what they're gonna go with, but it's exciting!

EDIT: And btw Haku is being replaced by Kenny King in the Gran Prix.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/897208486026776576


----------



## Corey

Anniversary main events are set. Don't care about them tbh.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/897876186059223040
This is good news though. Very hyped for the Gran Prix. Still waiting on a full card for that.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/897878355231612928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/897930216873512960


----------



## RavishingRickRules

I been getting into CMLL on Youtube recently but I don't speak Spanish and am fairly new to lucha libre so I honestly have no idea who is considered a jobber, midcard etc beyond a few that seem fairly obvious. Really enjoying it so far, just seems there's very little info on a lot of these guys and what is (like position on the "rankings") seems massively contradictory tbh. :shrug


----------



## Corey

RavishingRickRules said:


> I been getting into CMLL on Youtube recently but I don't speak Spanish and am fairly new to lucha libre so I honestly have no idea who is considered a jobber, midcard etc beyond a few that seem fairly obvious. Really enjoying it so far, just seems there's very little info on a lot of these guys *and what is (like position on the "rankings") seems massively contradictory tbh.* :shrug


It really is. The most protected and/or top guys in CMLL are Volador, Ultimo Guerrero, and Rush to an extent. When either of those 3 lose clean it's a rarity and it usually sets up a bigger match that they end up winning. Volador & UG have been champions for months on months (years even, I don't remember off hand). CMLL flip flops their booking and tries to push one guy for a few weeks and then totally forgets about them for the longest time. Someone may win a big tournament and then not be heard from for months at a time in a big match. A lot of it doesn't make sense, honestly.


----------



## RavishingRickRules

Corey said:


> It really is. The most protected and/or top guys in CMLL are Volador, Ultimo Guerrero, and Rush to an extent. When either of those 3 lose clean it's a rarity and it usually sets up a bigger match that they end up winning. Volador & UG have been champions for months on months (years even, I don't remember off hand). CMLL flip flops their booking and tries to push one guy for a few weeks and then totally forgets about them for the longest time. Someone may win a big tournament and then not be heard from for months at a time in a big match. A lot of it doesn't make sense, honestly.


Yeah that explains a lot of my confusion I think. It took me a while getting used to faces literally not breaking a single rule regardless of what the heels do, first few times I saw that I was like "dude, go help your buddy!" But yeah I'm really digging it so far, favourites probably Mistico, Dragon Lee, Sanson & Cuatrero, Caristico & because he's so tiny I'm marking over Astral who looks crazy as fuck being that ripped at that size lol. 

The only pain for me is I'm trying to recreate as much of the roster as is feasible for Fire Pro Wrestling World but it's near impossible to figure out what "tier" people are in so I can have their attributes in the right balance. Like unless Astral's supposed to be able to destroy Caristico I need to get people at the right "level" so when it's a sim game the result is usually what you'd expect lol.


----------



## The High King

looking forward to triplemania 25 for pagano and mesias [muertes]
and johnny mundo defending the three titles in the triple threat


----------



## Stetho

Triplemania for free on Twitch, fuck yeah, the 26 is gonna be lit


----------



## Rah

RavishingRickRules said:


> Yeah that explains a lot of my confusion I think. It took me a while getting used to faces literally not breaking a single rule regardless of what the heels do, first few times I saw that I was like "dude, go help your buddy!" But yeah I'm really digging it so far, favourites probably Mistico, Dragon Lee, Sanson & Cuatrero, Caristico & because he's so tiny I'm marking over Astral who looks crazy as fuck being that ripped at that size lol.
> 
> The only pain for me is I'm trying to recreate as much of the roster as is feasible for Fire Pro Wrestling World but it's near impossible to figure out what "tier" people are in so I can have their attributes in the right balance. Like unless Astral's supposed to be able to destroy Caristico I need to get people at the right "level" so when it's a sim game the result is usually what you'd expect lol.


Match line-ups, story summaries, reviews and news here:
http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/

Company rosters and champions:
http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/roster/

If you click on a wrestler's bio under the company's roster you can see his card placement history. A full list of wrestlers (past and present) is here:
www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/wcards/


Example for Atlantis
http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/wcards/atlantis.php


Code:


[INDENT]Promotion 	Level 	Freq 	        Tech 	        Start Date 	End Date
CMLL 	        Mid 	Regular 	tecnico 	1983-04-12 	1985-12-13
CMLL 	        Top 	Regular 	tecnico 	1989-03-05 	2005-09-26
CMLL 	        Top 	Regular 	rudo 	        2005-09-26 	2011-08-11
CMLL 	        Top 	Regular 	tecnico 	2011-08-12 	2040-01-02[/INDENT]


_________
Regarding why tecnicos don't cheat/help their buddy, I want to say that they are more prone to suspension/fines by doing so. Rudo/tecnico lines aren't really heel/face dynamics, they're fighting styles (hence technique on the page above). Tecnicos swear to the fans that they will fight "pure" and beat their opponent with grace and agility. Rudos are more powerhouse in nature and will not use dives or creative spots that make the crowd go "wow". That delineation isn't quite as separate as it once was, hence old man lucha grumps hating on the modern product, but that's for another post.


----------



## RavishingRickRules

Rah said:


> Match line-ups, story summaries, reviews and news here:
> http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/
> 
> Company rosters and champions:
> http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/roster/
> 
> If you click on a wrestler's bio under the company's roster you can see his card placement history. A full list of wrestlers (past and present) is here:
> www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/wcards/
> 
> 
> Example for Atlantis
> http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/wcards/atlantis.php
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [INDENT]Promotion 	Level 	Freq 	        Tech 	        Start Date 	End Date
> CMLL 	        Mid 	Regular 	tecnico 	1983-04-12 	1985-12-13
> CMLL 	        Top 	Regular 	tecnico 	1989-03-05 	2005-09-26
> CMLL 	        Top 	Regular 	rudo 	        2005-09-26 	2011-08-11
> CMLL 	        Top 	Regular 	tecnico 	2011-08-12 	2040-01-02[/INDENT]
> 
> 
> _________
> Regarding why tecnicos don't cheat/help their buddy, I want to say that they are more prone to suspension/fines by doing so. Rudo/tecnico lines aren't really heel/face dynamics, they're fighting styles (hence technique on the page above). Tecnicos swear to the fans that they will fight "pure" and beat their opponent with grace and agility. Rudos are more powerhouse in nature and will not use dives or creative spots that make the crowd go "wow". That delineation isn't quite as separate as it once was, hence old man lucha grumps hating on the modern product, but that's for another post.


Yeah that's actually been my main resource so far as it seemed the most in-depth I could find online. I wasn't sure how current the roster positions were because a lot of the guys I find more info are "openers" which I'm assuming is a rookie/jobber type from the tag matches and the top guys often are hard to find even a decent picture of.


----------



## Corey

Triplemania is live: https://www.twitch.tv/luchalibreaaa

EDIT: Uh oh...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/901637716898492417
EDIT x2: Aerostar you crazy bastard!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/901634781749837825


----------



## xsw

42000 viewers, iirc Atlantis vs UG had 10000 in youtube although no one knew it was gonna be "free" until the paying method crashed and they just put the stream up.

Sexy Star... smh... well someone had to provide some legit violence this night... maybe AAA should book a shoot Shiani vs Star boxing match a la Arsion shoot kickboxing bouts from late 90s?


----------



## MC

Glad it was free the first tow matches weren't good. The pre show match was awesome, the womens match was Worst MOTYC.


----------



## Corey

These last 3 matches are really the only thing I'm tuning in for. I want BLOOD and VIOLENCE! :mark:

EDIT: Never mind, I forgot how awful Pagano was. :lol


----------



## SWITCHBLADE

This TripleMania show has made me garner a new found respect for WWE.


----------



## Corey

Rainmaka! said:


> This TripleMania show has made me garner a new found respect for WWE.


:lmao right? This has been completely awful. I'm not sure how they can have so many fans.


----------



## sailord

Just curious how bad has the aaa ppv been


----------



## Corey

sailord said:


> Just curious how bad has the aaa ppv been


Pretty bad imo. The show was REALLY long and had a bunch of useless shit, run ins, time wasters, etc. Maybe you'll find enjoyment in the main event but it went 28 minutes and boy did it feel like it. :lol


----------



## Corey

God DAMN Wagner looks old! And kinda looks... Samoan?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/901680183098396672


----------



## SWITCHBLADE

Main event was a decent effort and the crowd was into it but this show proved why I stopped watching AAA. What a dumpster fire and I thought last year's show was okay! I think Battleground has competition.....


----------



## sailord

Corey said:


> Pretty bad imo. The show was REALLY long and had a bunch of useless shit, run ins, time wasters, etc. Maybe you'll find enjoyment in the main event but it went 28 minutes and boy did it feel like it. :lol


LOLZ good thing I skipped was thinking about watching but I watched the one few years ago it was horrible so I was like naw won't watch it for free again


----------



## Miguel De Juan

25 man matches and womens matches were bad. I didnt watch the pre show. I didn't think this was a bad show not great but better than the last two years which had one good match. You guys are weird.


----------



## Corey

Miguel De Juan said:


> 25 man matches and womens matches were bad. I didnt watch the pre show. I didn't think this was a bad show not great but better than the last two years which had one good match. You guys are weird.


From a business standpoint I'd say the show was a huge success looking at the attendance and the fact that the stream never went down, they peaked at 60k viewers, and the main event was a huge moment. From a viewers standpoint (mine obviously) I thought the show sucked.  Nothing I'd ever wanna see again, but I've never really liked AAA that much anyway so there's that. Pagano/Mesias was such a waste of time.


----------



## Miguel De Juan

Corey said:


> From a business standpoint I'd say the show was a huge success looking at the attendance and the fact that the stream never went down, they peaked at 60k viewers, and the main event was a huge moment. From a viewers standpoint (mine obviously) I thought the show sucked.  Nothing I'd ever wanna see again, but I've never really liked AAA that much anyway so there's that. Pagano/Mesias was such a waste of time.


Compared to technical issues of the last two shows and that there was only good match between those two this was by far more enjoyable. AAA has not had great matches since the 90s.

This might be an average show with a big main event that they could turn out their promotion if they correct their booking.

AAA, CMLL, and Crash need to stay alive because WWE is coming at every market and talent they can get.


----------



## SWITCHBLADE

-Johnny Mundo is my hero after tonight
-Dr. Wagner is Mexican Hulk Hogan
-English commentary pretty much gave up halfway thru
-Vampiro and Vince Russo are friends right? Their booking philosophies seem to line up
-El Mesias seems to only care when he's under a mask and wrestling in The Temple
-That women's match was TNA Knockouts circa 2009-2011 bad
-Antonio Pena's wife showing off his ashes multiple times ut
-TOO MANY CLOWNS
-Aerostar is insane
-Stream was flawless so yay!
-Sexy Star is a certified cunt
-If you want to see good Lucha, watch The Crash or CMLL

Those are my general thoughts on TripleMania XXV.


----------



## MillionDollarChamp

Fuck that piece of shit Sexy Star for intentionally injuring Rosemary


----------



## Asuka842

First AAA screws over Taya Valkyrie (which is hilarious since her fiancée holds several of their top belts). And then Sexy Star goes and does something like this (as far as I'm aware, not even Hogan, HBK, Triple H, etc at their most egotistical deliberately tried to injure their opponents).

What kind of incompetence is this?


----------



## Punkhead

Anybody knows what happened with Sexy Star? How do people know if the injury was deliberate? Did she have personal beef with others? I'm kind of out of the loop here.


----------



## SWITCHBLADE

Punkhead said:


> Anybody knows what happened with Sexy Star? How do people know if the injury was deliberate? Did she have personal beef with others? I'm kind of out of the loop here.


-Stayed out most of the match
-When she was in, she sold approximately 0%
-Already has a established rep of being a cunt
-She bailed out of the ring almost instantly


----------



## Punkhead

Rainmaka! said:


> -Stayed out most of the match
> -When she was in, she sold approximately 0%
> -Already has a established rep of being a cunt
> -She bailed out of the ring almost instantly


Just watched the match on Twitch. That was very unprofessional and a bitch move. She made the whole match terrible. No-selling, whatever, but deliberately injuring another wrestler, that's just wrong. I hope she faces some kind of consequences, thought knowing AAA it probably won't happen.


----------



## Asuka842

Yeah at minimum, she should be stripped of the title, if not suspended. But I doubt that she suffers any real consequences for this sadly.


----------



## SWITCHBLADE

Punkhead said:


> Just watched the match on Twitch. That was very unprofessional and a bitch move. She made the whole match terrible. No-selling, whatever, but deliberately injuring another wrestler, that's just wrong. I hope she faces some kind of consequences, thought knowing AAA it probably won't happen.


She is honestly is asking for it now. Like getting jumped backstage asking for it.


----------



## Flair Shot

Well that was the wrestlecrap show of the year.

- Opening match was a dud.
- Women's match. All over the place and just bad.
- Fatal 4 Way tag match, YAY Aerostar!
- Match of a billion teams. BIG GIANT CLUSTERFUCK.
- Pagano vs. Mesias. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
- Triple Threat. It was there. Considering who was in it, it should have been a lot better.
- Mask match. Ths dragged and dragged. And the result sucked!


----------



## Asuka842

It's very telling, and not in a good way, that the most memorable moment of the entire show is one of the performers being an A-hole and deliberately injuring an opponent.

Take away Sexy Star being an egotistical A-hole, and this show is completely forgettable.


----------



## MC

It says a lot when the pre show match was match of the night. I watched up to the 4 way tag before i turned it off (mcgror vs floyd was next) But god dam it was terrible.

first match: *3/4 the dive to the outside where enjoyable but everything else was meh and bad camera work missed what happened with hernadez and the guy on the ramp.

2nd match: -***. This was terrible, sexy star either was gassed from the first minute or didn't want anything to do with this match and the rest they just botched there way to the end. Oh Sexy Star NO SOLD A F*****G CHAIR SHOT. Oh not to mention the shooting.

Vanpiro basically created a developmental, some may call it MXT ( I know bad joke). 



3rd match: **3/4 great spot by Aerostar but the rest was way overbooked. It was good but the many interference ruined it. I lost count of how many clowns their were in the ring


----------



## Rah

Aside from 2014, I don't think Triplemania has ever deservedly been the worst show of the year insofar that their spot shows are so much worse. But, with the coverage and accessibility, Triplemania always gets that notoriety. I doubt I'll check the show out, the cool spots I've caught up with in gif form (Aerostar's been doing that _for years_ but it's _never not been_ beautiful/crazy) and I'll need to process my thoughts on Wagner losing his mask. I'm probably a lot higher on Psycho Clown than a lot of people, but I'm not sure Wagner was the right legend to topple.

I guess a lot of my hesitation rests in the fact that Parka/Wagner matches will never have that same feel, anymore, with the big apuesta no longer on the table. That would have been a money match, and then the guy to beat Parka would be set for life. Hello CMLL, I'm looking at you with your shitty Aniversario PPV next month.

Sexy Star's antics will probably turn out to be a work (or a work gone wrong), knowing Vampiro's booking. The sad part to it (and the origination of this entire ordeal re Taya) is that it's so sleazy yet I can barely grasp an ounce of care towards it. I went from thinking Vampiro's a tool to thinking Vampiro's a tool after I heard it's a work. No bueno.

Wagner's a draw, so I don't think we can look at attendance here and make an inference on the state of AAA as a whole; it will be interesting to see where they go now, with Psycho Clown, and if they can make money of it but I've had that hope of change pulled away by them far too many times. The Crash will never out-run AAA but they know where Mexico's wrestling landscape is headed and they're far more reactive/embracing of that than AAA. People want novella storylines but people are also clamoring for PWGesque multimans and crazy "dream" matchups. You don't trawl Youtube in the hopes of a fancam from some Lucha Memes show, these days, you just plug in The Crash's channel now.

I truly hope that Psycho Clown takes off, he's a tremendous face in peril when he has his working boots on, but I'm more expecting (dreading) the next show to be centred on something ludicrous like Kross vs Dave the gotdam Clown.



Rainmaka! said:


> -Johnny Mundo is my hero after tonight
> *-Dr. Wagner is Mexican Hulk Hogan*
> -English commentary pretty much gave up halfway thru
> -Vampiro and Vince Russo are friends right? Their booking philosophies seem to line up
> -El Mesias seems to only care when he's under a mask and wrestling in The Temple
> -That women's match was TNA Knockouts circa 2009-2011 bad
> *-Antonio Pena's wife showing off his ashes multiple times ut*
> -TOO MANY CLOWNS
> -Aerostar is insane
> -Stream was flawless so yay!
> -Sexy Star is a certified cunt
> -If you want to see good Lucha, watch The Crash or CMLL
> 
> Those are my general thoughts on TripleMania XXV.


1) They call it Wagnermania for a reason :lol:

2) Pena does that every year. Her shtick at ringside (especially for foreigners like Jarrett) is tiring but there's a running gag involving the guy sitting to her left in a black cap. He's there every year, in the same place, with the same dead expression no matter what. I've seen him half smirk to Perrito's antics, once, but otherwise he looks like someone that needs suicide watch. Perfect illustration of what I feel like watching AAA on most days.


----------



## Miguel De Juan

Asuka842 said:


> It's very telling, and not in a good way, that the most memorable moment of the entire show is one of the performers being an A-hole and deliberately injuring an opponent.
> 
> Take away Sexy Star being an egotistical A-hole, and this show is completely forgettable.


Wagner Jr losing his mask is the draw and the big story from the show. I mean I get people not liking the show when other promotions have better worked matches and AAA are still doing attitude era booking but to say it would be forgettable is dumb. Wagner Jr is a big deal.


----------



## Asuka842

Miguel De Juan said:


> Wagner Jr losing his mask is the draw and the big story from the show. I mean I get people not liking the show when other promotions have better worked matches and AAA are still doing attitude era booking but to say it would be forgettable is dumb. Wagner Jr is a big deal.


I agree that it SHOULD have been the big story. But if you look around, like 95%+ of comments from the show are about Sexy Star's actions. It's completely overshadowed everything else on the show for most people.


----------



## The High King

this sucked for a number of reasons.
The stream was ok but the commentary was like 2 muppets were watching from a back room and made the whole thing crap from the off.
Star who is not or never was sexy is a cunt.
Pagano Mesias was shit and the finish like something from Mexican southpaw wrestling.
Glad John Morrison won but it was a hard watch. and he took a bad spot through a table, a heap of blood and interference but hard to keep up with appalling camera work.
I could not be bothered with the main event that how much the whole production sucked


----------



## Corey

Full lineup for this Friday:

*CMLL (FRI) 09/01/2017 Arena México*
1) Blue Panther, Blue Panther Jr., The Panther vs Cuatrero, Máscara Año 2000, Sansón
2) Marcela, Princesa Sugehit, Silueta vs Amapola, Dalys, Zeuxis
3) Carístico, Mistico, Soberano Jr. vs Cavernario, Felino, ***** Casas
4) Diamante Azul, Dragón Lee, Euforia, Mephisto, Rush, Último Guerrero, Valiente, Volador Jr. vs Johnny Idol, Juice Robinson, Kenny King, Kojima, Marco Corleone, Matt Taven, Michael Elgin, Sam Adonis *[Gran Prix]*

Very excited for the Gran Prix but disappointed with no big singles match. Cavernario/Soberano in a title match would've been insane and would've convinced me to buy the iPPV for sure. Now... Idk if it's worth it for one match. I'm sure the semi-main will be fun but I don't really care about all their 6-mans.


----------



## Javier C.

In name of a lot of mexicans I apologize if you saw this epic clusterfuck live.

Just stick with CMLL and The Crash.


----------



## xsw

In Mexico no one is talking about Star&Rosemary, the show delivered a big moment vibe, which is something that has not happened in years. CMLL managed to put masks on the line but the following day Volador Jr or UG continue being Volador and UG, same spot in the cards, same gimmick. Nothing build for the future .

XXV does look like the end of an era, no way in hell Wagner will be back in CMLL and even his indy bookings will go down, he's either retiring (maybe) or he's now fully committed to AAA which would also mean AAA gave him some power... the people from the "Llave a la gloria" do feel like the kind of guys Wagner prefers, so it could be a good counter to the garbage style Vampiro and AAA in general has favored for over a decade. 

Wagner has a good look and is in good shape, could be thinking about retiring soon but could also go on for a while, and he still provides big name value for AAA, he will probably feud Mundo for the titles and have Mesias involved, with Wagner working with Texano for UWA fans to have something to cheer (a call back to Texano Sr and Silver King) and finally give Texano Jr the boost he needs. They also set up Psycho Clown vs Marty and the clowns likely with Pagano as a Psycho ally. Any of these Clowns stip matches and possible Wagner vs Mesias hair match are enough to draw into the next decade for AAA while they start working on refreshing their roster with more tryouts and tournaments, wonder if they will use more Twitch and if it is better for them than youtube.


----------



## Punkhead

Rosemary explaining the situation:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/901970530684866560


----------



## Stetho

Wow, people talking about Sexy Star when fucking Dr. Wagner lost his mask. It's amazing how so many people don't get what lucha libre is. Who cares if there's no 6 stars match, Wagner lost his fuckin mask. I mean, don't watch lucha libre expecting NJPW.


----------



## ArnDaddy

Stetho said:


> Wow, people talking about Sexy Star when fucking Dr. Wagner lost his mask. It's amazing how so many people don't get what lucha libre is. Who cares if there's no 6 stars match, Wagner lost his fuckin mask. I mean, don't watch lucha libre expecting NJPW.


The Sexy Star thing was ridiculous, and I think we are all in universal agreement about her behaviour, But the end of the show was brilliant I thought.

Lots to complain about, fair enough. Lots of overbooking, The womens was a mess, The pre-show opener was horrendous and the Torneo was brutal - shock. 

But that main event and post match stuff was exactly what it should have been. I thought it was very compelling, especially when he kicked out of the Wagner driver. I've watched the post match stuff several times already.


----------



## USAUSA1

Stetho said:


> Wow, people talking about Sexy Star when fucking Dr. Wagner lost his mask. It's amazing how so many people don't get what lucha libre is. Who cares if there's no 6 stars match, Wagner lost his fuckin mask. I mean, don't watch lucha libre expecting NJPW.


Exactly but this is the social media world. No one cares about the important stuff. 

Luckily, the people in Mexico don't care about other people opinions on aaa and lucha libre.


----------



## Corey

CMLL iPPV combo of the Gran Prix & Anniversary Show is being advertised as 200 pesos, but it only allows me to pay $20 USD since I'm in America. No option to pay using pesos, which would be SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper ($9 to be exact). Dumb. Would pay the $11 but not $20. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/901848246133309441


----------



## Rah

Meanwhile The Crash teases this






For a guy that ran played out storylines in AAA, Konan's cementing a helluva great promotion here.


----------



## Rah

Pretty crazy



> Dr. Wagner & Psycho Clown, airing on a slight delay, got a 22.8 rating in Mexico.
> 
> McGregor & Maywether got a 19.9.


----------



## volde

But I heard nobody cares about fake fights anymore...


----------



## Punkhead

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/879957-backstage-news-on-the-gfw-return-of-alberto-el-patron/amp



> According to PWInsider, El Patron was scheduled to take place in a major segment at AAA’s TripleMania, which would be aired on GFW Impact and set up a match at Bound for Glory. However, *AAA went behind his back and copyrighted the “Alberto El Patron” name in Mexico*, which drew major heat and caused El Patron to refuse to film the angle there.


What the hell is wrong with AAA? Why are they doing this to their talent?


----------



## Rah

Screwing Alberto before he can screw them. :hmmm


----------



## Corey

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/903258626449657859

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/903259105900601346


----------



## Stetho

Punkhead said:


> http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/879957-backstage-news-on-the-gfw-return-of-alberto-el-patron/amp
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell is wrong with AAA? Why are they doing this to their talent?


What the hell is wrong with people still thinking Alberto deserve anything?


----------



## Miguel De Juan

ArnDaddy said:


> The Sexy Star thing was ridiculous, and I think we are all in universal agreement about her behaviour, But the end of the show was brilliant I thought.
> 
> Lots to complain about, fair enough. Lots of overbooking, The womens was a mess, The pre-show opener was horrendous and the Torneo was brutal - shock.
> 
> But that main event and post match stuff was exactly what it should have been. I thought it was very compelling, especially when he kicked out of the Wagner driver. I've watched the post match stuff several times already.


People even say high caliber matches in NJPW are overrated. A lot of wrestling fans are contrarian. I compare AAA present day to how great their 90s shows and angles were when they had great young guys and veterans on the roster.


----------



## Rah

AAA uploaded their show to Youtube:








Punkhead said:


> http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/879957-backstage-news-on-the-gfw-return-of-alberto-el-patron/amp
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell is wrong with AAA? Why are they doing this to their talent?


They trademarked the name in 2014, so there's something else at play/report is pulled out of someone's ass?


----------



## Ham and Egger

Can someone please tell me how and why a guy named Psycho Clown is the most over guy in Mexico?


----------



## PUNQ

Because he's freaking cool?! Sort of in a La Parka way, except with a crazy clown mask and little more bad ass.


----------



## Corey

Ham and Egger said:


> Can someone please tell me how and why a guy named Psycho Clown is the most over guy in Mexico?


AAA fucking loves their clowns. :lol


----------



## volde

Is clown an archetype in Lucha for wrestlers? Or is it a new one being built now? I don't know anything about Lucha really, but some people reacting to how show had bunch of clowns and all that, well it reminds me of when I watched my first Lucha show. My initial reaction that it was bunch of generic dudes with similar looking masks.


----------



## Stetho

volde said:


> Is clown an archetype in Lucha for wrestlers? Or is it a new one being built now? I don't know anything about Lucha really, but some people reacting to how show had bunch of clowns and all that, well it reminds me of when I watched my first Lucha show. My initial reaction that it was bunch of generic dudes with similar looking masks.


Psycho, Murder, and Monster were part of the same trios, that's why they're all clowns. 
Pagano is an indy wrestler they signed way later, but his character is really different tho.
And Dave well, we do not care about Dave the clown.


----------



## Ham and Egger

I spent some time yesterday trying to watch some of the Triplemania matches and my god the lucha style is terrible in terms of telling a story. Like there is nothing cohesive in their psychology and its like they're making it up as they go along which understandably makes it seem like a real lucha (fight) but goddamn its hard to get through.


----------



## Corey

Ham and Egger said:


> I spent some time yesterday trying to watch some of the Triplemania matches and my god the lucha style is terrible in terms of telling a story. Like there is nothing cohesive in their psychology and its like they're making it up as they go along which understandably makes it seem like a real lucha (fight) but goddamn its hard to get through.


I totally understand those complaints tbh. I've tried watching AAA multiple times in the past couple years and just honestly do not care for their style (if you even wanna call it that?) and think it can be borderline horrible at times. I follow CMLL but I will admit for that it's something you have to train yourself to enjoy because they rarely put that much thought into storytelling. It's often two falls that are quick and don't mean much of anything before a 3rd fall consisting of big dives, spots, and nearfalls (and even with those there's usually a terrible ref that screws things up). It's rare to see a match consisting of long term limbwork or any other storytelling aspect that you'd see in wrestling in basically every other country.

However, I will say that lucha can be absolutely amazing when it's done right and the storytelling is there. Current days you don't see much of it but the classics of the last 20-30 years can be incredibly enjoyable and suck you in with what they do.

There's not much that I've seen from AAA in the past couple years that I'd actually recommend to a new viewer, but give this one a shot sometime. It's a fantastic bloody brawl with great drama.


----------



## JJZerol

I Dont know about everyone else but I'm real excited to see The Crash and AAA talent featured on GFW

This is great expisure them especially for The Crash


----------



## Corey

JJZerol said:


> I Dont know about everyone else but I'm real excited to see The Crash and AAA talent featured on GFW
> 
> This is great expisure them especially for The Crash


Haven't they already been on Impact for a couple months now?


----------



## JJZerol

Corey said:


> Haven't they already been on Impact for a couple months now?


Yeah i know that, im just expressing how excited that i am to see them on GFW currently.


----------



## Corey

Gran Prix will be live in about 3 hours. iTV has an option to just buy tonight's show for $10 so I'm doing that (even though idk why I can't pay using pesos and save a few bucks... but whatevs).

Final prediction is Elgin winning it for Team Rest of the World but who the hell knows. Volador or UG have won just about everything under the sun in the last calendar year so let's see if someone else can get the spotlight. Will be interesting to see if they can build to any title matches or singles that they can throw into the cards in the next 4 or 5 days before everyone goes back to Japan/US. Elgin/UG and KUSHIDA/Volador happened last year. Would be cool to see something with Kojima or Juice this time around.

https://www.internetv.tv/index.php?route=itv2017/product&product_id=1345


----------



## Corey

:cuss:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/903828047413039108
Big Mike... :cry2:cry2 That was such an incredible performance from him. He was a one man fucking wrecking crew out there, single handedly eliminating both Volador AND Ultimo Guerrero. How the fuck do you do seriously do that in the same match and NOT get the win!? Damn you CMLL!

Aside from me complaining about that, the match was honestly so much fun and well worth my $10 *(****)*. Tons of good action. Biggest problem was the ref fucking up the eliminations (and believe it or not it wasn't Tirantes :lol). People would clearly kick out and he'd say they were eliminated. Happened 2 or 3 times. Rush got himself DQed so they took the easy way out. Couple surprises were Juice pinning Dragon Lee and the fact that Diamante fucking Azul won the match...

Also, Matt Taven nearly died:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/903819786643279872


----------



## volde

Did they hint at some possible singles matches before NJPW guys leave?


----------



## Corey

volde said:


> Did they hint at some possible singles matches before NJPW guys leave?


Elgin vs. Rush seems like the easy one (they brawled and Rush got himself DQed and then they kept brawling), but Mike is already out of Mexico for PWG today. Other than that... none really. All of them would honestly involved Big Mike. Juice pinned Dragon Lee but no way they'd consider them in the same weight class.


----------



## JJZerol

This Sexy Star /RM incident is really overshadowing the Dr Wagner Jr Unmasking at Triplemania but at least not in Mexico.


----------



## USAUSA1

I am mad at Cmll for making us pay for the anniversary. That card should be free and probably better serve as free.


----------



## Corey

USAUSA1 said:


> I am mad at Cmll for making us pay for the anniversary. That card should be free and probably better serve as free.


You beat me to it, just about to come in here and complain about the terrible card.  Flip Gordon is in the semi-main of their biggest show of the year? Huh...? And this:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/905843547819175938
:fpalm No Soberano either.


----------



## Rah

As lucha fans there are two positives we can at least take away from this past week or two:

1) Wagner lost his mask with a record-breaking payday
2) Luchadores are getting immensely over in America (PWG) which is good for the workers and us, as fans, in hopefully getting new eyes on the products we love

Oh, and the anniversario show will probably be adequately watchable. If they pulled a miracle from Pierroth/Azul they'll do fine with this card. It's uninspired and a huge drop down from the past few years, but it will be interesting to see where they go with their women afterward (sad they didn't get to main).


----------



## Corey

Also very sad to not see one lone singles match booked with all the guys that came over for the Gran Prix.  Even if it was just something like Mephisto/Taven I would've taken it.


----------



## USAUSA1

I don't know if it good for lucha in Mexico since guys like Penta and Fenix can make a ton of money in uk and US Indies and wwe scoop some of the best. I think lucha underground played a huge role in all of this but that era is pretty much over. I don't see the same kind of buzz for other young talent in mexico.

Remember those weeks when Wagner and Park returned to cmll before the anniversary show? Great time


----------



## USAUSA1

The main event will probably be good due to the atmosphere but it's still not ppv worthy.


----------



## Corey

For anyone interested


----------



## volde

Saw that there are some footage of Crash matches on Youtube (and probably other platforms), can anyone recommend something good that maybe showcases what Crash is about?


----------



## USAUSA1

I have been watching a.bunch of mask matches. Villano 3 vs Atlantis is still the best and most beautiful match and atmosphere I've seen.


----------



## december_blue

Princesa Sugehit unmasked at at CMLL’s 84th anniversary show.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/909212720242872326


----------



## Corey

Clearly the main event was not a very good draw, which isn't surprising at all.


----------



## Rah

You'd have thought they'd go all guns blazing to try pump up the figures for the show. The card looked like a random spot/Tuesday show just with regulars instead of locals in an apuesta match. Trolldan's probably snickering away somewhere...


----------



## USAUSA1

I didn't get a chance to watch it yet but I read it was a good show. Cmll still made money off the event am sure.

They should offer la park a huge payday to lose his mask to Rush. I am scared Rush would take Atlantis mask and jump to nxt. I still believe Rush brother Mistico should take Atlantis mask.


----------



## xsw

That's not how La Empresa operates, they give a % of the gate, if the show bombs they won't lose a penny, for LA Park to get a huge payday they would have to jack up the prices much higher than normal anniversario, which are probably as high as they can go already.

Octagon on the other hand...


----------



## USAUSA1

They do make exceptions, which is why Rush working crash shows. They don't want to make him disgruntled.


----------



## USAUSA1

Sugehit vs Zeuxis was phenomenal. Sugehit was on her A game. She don't look bad at all.

Guerrero vs Roja was ok. They rush that second fall.Roja can definitely do the creepy guy gimmick.


----------



## Rah

Do you think Wagner making so much money will change the figure LA Park is asking? Parka/Rush will probably be the next, never-ending Wagner/Park, now.


----------



## Corey

Free AAA show on Twitch tonight:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/911343058758914049


----------



## USAUSA1

Pretty cool


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Borash/Vampiro announce team was 5x better that that clusterfuck w/ Kevin Gill.


----------



## USAUSA1

Vampire shooting on Sting was funny.

Part 1 of the palenque en irapuato show was really fun. The La Llave Gloria guys really stole the show. You guys should check out this episode.


----------



## faisalaldoseri

so I am not spamming but I just wrote a similar post in the Japanese promotion. so I am already watching lucha underground but want to do the same with shows like cmll and triple a, can I jump in or there is a period where I should start at? where can I watch them? and what should I watch and what is skippables? who are the main wrestlers in these promotions?


----------



## USAUSA1

faisalaldoseri said:


> so I am not spamming but I just wrote a similar post in the Japanese promotion. so I am already watching lucha underground but want to do the same with shows like cmll and triple a, can I jump in or there is a period where I should start at? where can I watch them? and what should I watch and what is skippables? who are the main wrestlers in these promotions?


Check out the history first. Watch the first 3 triplemania events,then fast forward to Mesias vs Wagner and La Park vs La Parka triplemania matches. Then watch triplemania 25. After that, watch the most recent episode of AAA. It will make you appreciate AAA. Main wrestlers is Pyscho Clown and everyone else. He is their John Cena. They have some good talents like Aerostar and the legendary Wagner Jr.

As for cmll, watch Villano iii vs Atlantis mask match(greatest match ever),UG vs Atlantis mask match, Rush vs Casas hair match,every Dragon Lee jr vs Kamaitachi match and then watch the most recent episode of the Friday show. They have over 200 wrestlers but it safe too say Rush and UG(ultimate guerrero) are top of the top. Dragon Lee is probably the most talented.


----------



## faisalaldoseri

thanks for the reply!

ok but what exactly should I watch from now and on? I mean should I watch a weekly show or is it like NJPW with events and no weekly thing


----------



## PUNQ

The current lucha schedule is easy to follow as both CMLL and AAA upload most of their shows on their own official Youtube channels. *AAA* upload their weekly TV show on Mondays. Look for the clips lasting around 1 hrs 10 minutes. They usually air their TV-tapings as Part(e) 1 and Part(e) 2, so I usually watched them every second week to get the feel I watch the full show. 

*CMLL* has upload a lot more on their YT channel. They basically own the building they run and for the most part run them the same days every week, sometimes multiple shows a day. So what their weekly TV/footage usually looks like is this:

Mondays - from Arena Puebla
Tuesdays - from Arena México
Tuesdays - from Arena Coliseo Guadalajara (these show are usally uploaded at CubsFan lucha blog)
Fridays - from Arena México


PS: Because of the big earthquake in Mexico CMLL hasn't held shows in Mexico City for a couple of weeks, but will start up next week.


----------



## USAUSA1

Soberano vs Cavernario was a great match.

Crash filming pilot tonight


----------



## volde

USAUSA1 said:


> Crash filming pilot tonight


For what? TV? Will it be available somewhere for free?


----------



## USAUSA1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/916727532661149696
This Torneo is fantastic

Volador Jr vs Caristico next Friday

Rush vs Marco for the title
Ultima Lucha finale
Caristico vs Volador Jr 
Heroes Inmortales part one 

Should be a fun week


----------



## Stetho

Yeaaah


----------



## MC

Just watch the Ring & Rock StAAArs 6 show, pretty good epecially Rey Wagner & Pagano defeat Psycho Clown & Rey Escorpion.


----------



## USAUSA1

MC 16 said:


> Just watch the Ring & Rock StAAArs 6 show, pretty good epecially Rey Wagner & Pagano defeat Psycho Clown & Rey Escorpion.


Escorpion have been a great asset.

So glad Kross quit. AAA need to stop bringing in gringos and pushing them. Most of them don't really get over.

Volador Jr vs Caristico Match of the Year. Instant classic


----------



## Miguel De Juan

Yeah Caristico vs. Volador Jr was fucking amazing. The crowd was awesome, too. WOW.


----------



## USAUSA1

Niebla Roja been on fire since his mask match.

Live stream on Cmll YouTube page.

Don't fight it lol

Soberano and Sanson being amazing


----------



## Corey

Holy shit... roud

@Rah


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/932074751903776768


----------



## MC

He has done it :mark


----------



## Rah

IT'S A HAPPY DAY!


----------



## Corey

A new year coming means a fresh start to try and keep up with everything again. thecubsfan doesn't seem to think either one of these shows will be streamed, but if they do here's two matches to look out for as the year gets started:

*CMLL (MON) 01/01/2018 Arena México*
6) ***** Casas vs Sam Adonis *[hair]*

*CMLL (MON) 01/01/2018 Arena Puebla*
6) Mephisto *©* vs Carístico *[CMLL WELTER]*
_8th defense_


----------



## Even Flow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/948413823370674177


----------



## Concrete

Catching up on some random CMLL from last year for #WDKW100 (which all the cool people here should participate in) so going to try and do better about pasting my musings from my Google Sheets into here.

*Soberano, Esfinge & Fuego vs. Virus, Raziel & Cancerbero (CMLL 4/24/17):***¼*
_Maybe not the trios match I would first recommend but enough fun stuff to have a good time with. First fall highlights are Esfinge wiggling his butt after taking off his hoodie and Virus throwing a mean front facing chop block. Second fall has the rudos putting on the heat. Dug the ending stretch where Fuego kept gaining the advantage of the rudo in the ring off his partners hitting unexpected dives to bad dudes on the outside. Third fall featured a more confident technico team, Fuego doing more shucking and jiving than the entire rest of the contest. Esfinge did a weird thing that instead of dives he would attack rudos on the apron...like a rudo move, right? Virus rips his shirt off for a rather spirited exchange with Soberano, slapping the piss out of his chest. Soberano gets a nice powerslam and a standing moonsault to wrap that segment off. Best part is Virus eventually puts his shirt back on. Esfinge hits a very puro german suplex off a pin attempt on Raziel. Finish itself isn’t much as it is just a frog splash. That said Virus and the technicos looked like they had a lot of fun in there._

*Dragon Lee vs. Niebla Roja (CMLL 5/2/17):***¼*
_Love lucha because the three fall format allows you to literally see this match progress from bad junior wrestling to decent junior wrestling to bananas junior wrestling. Watched this with the expressed point of seeing if Dragon Lee should be on my WDKW100 ballot. After this I think he might. First fall is clunky, slow, and doesn’t have anything noteworthy. In the second fall Dragon Lee starts cartwheeling and flipping out of a bunch of crap and it is fun. Everything seem to be landing better. Third fall, Dragon Lee decides it is time to go buckwild and take Niebla Roja along for the ride. He admittedly starts with a rad tope suicida, springboard dropkick in the ring, tope con giro, and a frog splash for a pin attempt. Heckuva way to kick it off but Roja pops Lee all the way up and catches him in the grill on the way down. Lee decides to get powerbombed on the apron off his attempted hurricana off the apron. Bless his heart. Match probably peaks there. The work after is well and good. Likely would be popping big if I was in the building. Comes off like Lee trying his best to make everything Roja does look good on his end. They both hit the moves that won the first two falls with so check the “psychology” box off. Finish comes off a bit flat as it was led into by a finisher exchange more or less but didn’t end on the crescendo. Oh well. Still quite good professional wrestling from Lee._​


----------



## Corey

There was no CMLL show last night. Instead they're doing it this evening (6 eastern, 5 central) as a Best of 2017 rematch edition. Could be something fun to check out if you're not watching playoff football. It'll be on Claro.

*CMLL (SAT) 01/06/2018 Arena México*

1) Audaz, Flyer, Magia Blanca vs El Coyote, Templario, Yago
2) Pegasso & Titán vs Raziel & Virus
3) Soberano Jr. vs Rey Cometa
_rematch of Soberano’s title win._
4) Drone, Esfinge, Guerrero Maya Jr. vs Cuatrero, Forastero, Sansón
5) Niebla Roja vs Gran Guerrero
_rematch of 2017 Anniversario mask match_
6) Cavernario & Volador Jr. vs Último Guerrero & Valiente [Relevos Increíbles]
_rematch of tournament final_


----------



## Rah

*Demus 3:16 vs Wotan (Generación XXI 18/12/2017)*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM4ffJZJI3Q

Is Wotan looking for a quick Insurance pay out or something? Between this match and the Terry brawl, he probably has more dirt in his veins than blood at this point. The chairshots and headbutts are stiff enough but watching them roll around on a drink-spilled, dirty floor had me wincing.

Sadly this isn't complete but we get enough meat to understand the bulk. And that bulk is impressive. I've probably been higher on Wotan than most, and this was the best he's looked since facing Black Terry, but this was a total Demus 3:16 show. His blood-loss selling was great, but he shone with his offence. Kneeling headbutts are a thing that need to die a death in contemporary wrestling but Demus provided a very viable way of introducing the spot by popping a towering Wotan in the dick before wacking him with a stiff headbutt to the temple. Smirked wholeheartedly when he legit near murdered the referee with a chairshot.

This definitely had too much walk-and-talk brawling but there was enough meat and potatoes (good lord those potatoes!) to be a good addition to the list.​


Why isn't Demus in people's Top 5s?!


----------



## Concrete

*Mistico, Titan & Dragon Lee vs. ***** Casas, Cavernario & Felino (CMLL 7/24/17):***½*




_Can’t hate on Puebla trios match with a hot crowd and some effort being thrown in. First fall, rudos attack before the bell and Casas takes Mistico to the back of the floor seats. Solid beatdown from all three. The finish is sick as Felino has Lee in a reverse Figure Four and Cavernario punts him to finish the fall. Second fall is super short with lee kicking off the rally and Mistico finishing with La Mistica. Don’t want to downplay what a hoot it is so far. Everyone looks like they are having fun in there. In the third, Lee and ***** Casas start squaring off and it is a hoot. That’s a good pairing. Then Lee and Cavernario pair off, also a good pairing. Then Casas and Lee pair off again...okay you get it. Felino is already the odd man out so Lee getting short, fun sequences with the others is rad. Lee ends the stanza by slipping off the ropes but still manages to get the springboard armdrag just at a low angle. The Felino stuff is inoffensive fun. Doesn’t drag the bout down but doesn’t have a high ceiling. ***** Casas does throw in a wedgie here when they all have Mistico in the ropes which is sick af. ***** Casas goes toe-to-toe with Titan which gets the blood to PUMP! The finish is a Puebla finish without being a bad finish. Comes quick, feels like ¾ of the build was finished before they wrapped it up. Loved it still cause it paints the winner as a crafty son of a gun.
_

*Rey Cometa vs. Virus (CMLL 7/25/17):***¼*




_Want a cute, zero storytelling, sprint? Gotcha handled here my good friend. Looks like Virus might be thinking of taking this match to the grapple zone but for the betterment of the match he decides to go spot for spot with Cometa. Not saying Cometa is BAD on the mat but he’s certainly not someone that can make an entire 10 minutes of that compelling. Luckily, Virus has some sick moves to use against Cometa who is 75% sick moves. Virus does a beautiful armdrag off the post on the outside and that’s an automatic ***. Getting back into the ring it is momentum shifts including Cometa hitting a FRANKENSTEINER which I was not aware was canon in CMLL._​


----------



## Stetho

Shout out to the new Konnan vanity faction :kliq


----------



## MC

Dr Wanger Jr vs Johnny Mundo sounds pretty good. Hijo Del Fantasma vs Texano Jr is the one I'm most looking forward to though.


----------



## wrestling_fan_03

Hi guys 

I recently got hooked on Lucha Libre and I want your opinion on which is better, AAA or CMLL ?



MC 16 said:


> Dr Wanger Jr vs Johnny Mundo sounds pretty good. Hijo Del Fantasma vs Texano Jr is the one I'm most looking forward to though.


When is this event ?

And will it be on AAA's Youtube channel ?


----------



## nyelator

wrestling_fan_03 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I recently got hooked on Lucha Libre and I want your opinion on which is better, AAA or CMLL ?


Equal for me honestly.


----------



## MC

wrestling_fan_03 said:


> When is this event ?
> 
> And will it be on AAA's Youtube channel ?


Friday. not sure on where though.

http://www.luchalibreaaa.com/en/eventos/guerra-titanes-2018/ 

rest of the card,


----------



## Stetho

wrestling_fan_03 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I recently got hooked on Lucha Libre and I want your opinion on which is better, AAA or CMLL ?


CMLL is "classic" lucha libre with really few stories, AAA is relying a lot more on characters and brawls. It really depends on what you want but both are something to discover, really different from the rest.

Btw, Mundo is still gold. "Not a real doctor" just killed me :lmao


----------



## Corey

wrestling_fan_03 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I recently got hooked on Lucha Libre and I want your opinion on which is better, AAA or CMLL ?


CMLL will give you far better match quality but hardly ever provide you with deep stories or anything that meaningful tbh.

AAA is barely watchable imo. Terrible amounts of overbooking and shit finishes imo.


----------



## Concrete

*MVP vs. Xtreme Tiger (MDA 11/19/17):***½*
Xtreme Tiger needs to be in conversation for Best Hoot Artist of 2017. His style lends itself so well to high impact matches where not a moment is wasted. Here he goes against an older and slower MVP who can still throw some shots when called upon. The match is worked around Xtreme Tiger having every advantage but size and that is too hard to overcome. Tiger flies? He gets caught and slammed. Tiger applies a neat submission? Gets powerbombed out of it. Tiger simply gains momentum? Gets caught with a strike. Xtreme Tiger has cool offense and bumps super well and that glues this bad boy together.​


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Guerra de Titanes is Today, Hopefully some fans show it on Facebook Live

My Picks for today's show:

1. Australian Suicide
2. Lady Shani
3. Argenis, Bengala & Raptor
4. Rey Escorpion
5. Monster, Murder, Dave the Clown
6. Hijo del Fantasma
7. Dr. Wagner Jr.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

AAA will Live Stream Guerra de Titanes on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/luchalibreaaa tonight at 9 pm CT / 10 pm ET / Sat 3Am GMT


----------



## Stetho

Too bad I'm on the wrong side of the planet


----------



## MC

I'll catch up tommorow then. No Way I can stay up for it


----------



## Rah

Stetho said:


> Too bad I'm on the wrong side of the planet


I'm trying to find lucha in weird/different countries and I ran across this






Do you have any more links to CMLL in France? Or more knowledge on which of these APC guys are good?


----------



## Stetho

Sorry I don't really follow any french wrestling, but I know APC have some sort of partnership with CMLL as Nitro comes to France for some lucha training course


----------



## wrestling_fan_03

Hi guys 

AAA has had 4 title changes since the start of 2018 while CMLL had 1.

Why doesn't CMLL have title changes often ?


----------



## Corey

wrestling_fan_03 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> AAA has had 4 title changes since the start of 2018 while CMLL had 1.
> 
> Why doesn't CMLL have title changes often ?


The company is very traditional and old fashioned in a sense. They put a title (or various titles) on a top guy and they keep them for a VERY long time. Title changes typically only happen with some of the not-so-big names but the reigns usually go for a long ass time regardless. Their Middleweight Champion Cuatrero doesn't even have a wikipedia page. 

Volador has been champion for 3 and a half years
Ultimo Guerrero has been champion for 2 and a half
Mephisto and Dragon Lee are both coming up on 2 years


----------



## Rah

CMLL usually forgets they even have a title to begin with. I can't remember which wrestler it is (Roja?) that has reigned for over 5 years now with almost zero title defences/matches.


----------



## Concrete

*Atsushi Onita, Tarzan Goto & El Hijo Del Santo vs. ***** Casas, Horace Boulder & Tim Patterson (WWA 5/16/92):*****




_Goodness me there is a lot to love here. Some would say having two matches going on would be a detriment but I am a true fan of pro wrestling and enjoy staggering inconsistencies. Everything Casas and Santo do is beautiful. Everything they do is right. Now that, but the opposite for your FMW boys, no complaints though. Onita and Horace “My Dude” Boulder go all around town slinging chairs at each other, hoping to get that sexy, sexy plasma to come out of the other’s face. First fall is likely the peak but they definitely didn’t disappoint in the proceedings. If anything it feels like Santo and Casas have more of a spotlight. Without the FMW boys causing a ruckus in Row Q though you don’t get the scale of the first fall. Horace just starts yelling “STOP IT! STOP IT!” on the apron before the third fall when zilch is happening. Wrestling only gives, never takes. Santo busts out the headscissors and it has been a minute since I watched Santo so holy cow is that move still the damnedest thing you will see.

Sure, the match loads itself heavily on novelty and a hot crowd but I’ll be damned if the radically different approaches to wrestling within the same match didn’t enhance my enjoyment. I don’t always want wrestling to be super approachable, I want it to hit you from a couple of angles. The match feels built for someone like me with a short attention span where every moment something different is drawing your attention from a lovely armdrag to Tim Patterson’s gangly body flailing about. That’s the pro wrestling I need more of.
_​


----------



## MR-Bolainas

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/225147227 AAA latest TV Taping available here!

-Big Mami & Lady Shani vs Ashley & Faby Apache
-Niño Hamburguesa vs Dave The Clown
-Joe Lider & Mr. Águila vs Histeria & Psicosis
-Angelikal, Hijo Del Vikingo, Lanzelot, Máscara de Bronce vs Australian Suicide, Averno, Chessman, Súper Fly 
-Dark Cuervo, Dark Scoria, La Parka vs Carta Brava Jr., Mocho Cota Jr., Tito Santana
-Hijo del Dr. Wagner Jr. & Hijo del Fantasma vs Texano Jr. & Villano III Jr.
-Psycho Clown & Vampiro vs Dr. Wagner Jr. & Rey Escorpión


----------



## Rah

FMW doing random lucha matches on their shows is absurdly awesome.

I remember there's a show in 1994/1996 where they fly in Niebla and Virus to bounce around this empty af sports hall for the entertainment of three people. Fun times.


----------



## FROSTY

Rainmaka! said:


> -Johnny Mundo is my hero after tonight
> -Dr. Wagner is Mexican Hulk Hogan
> -English commentary pretty much gave up halfway thru
> -Vampiro and Vince Russo are friends right? Their booking philosophies seem to line up
> -El Mesias seems to only care when he's under a mask and wrestling in The Temple
> -That women's match was TNA Knockouts circa 2009-2011 bad
> -Antonio Pena's wife showing off his ashes multiple times ut
> -TOO MANY CLOWNS
> -Aerostar is insane
> -Stream was flawless so yay!
> -Sexy Star is a certified cunt
> -If you want to see good Lucha, watch The Crash or CMLL
> 
> Those are my general thoughts on TripleMania XXV.


*How can I watch The Crash, they don't really update their youtube channel, and my cable provider doesn't have Mexican networks/channels? I've been getting really interested in Lucha recently (never been a fan before) but since I've really been watching LU again I've felt the urge to give more Lucha Libre a try. But I want to watch the new good stuff, I keep reading about The Crash being one of the good promotions, but can't find a good online presence to watch. Can you help me out here?*



Punkhead said:


> http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/879957-backstage-news-on-the-gfw-return-of-alberto-el-patron/amp
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell is wrong with AAA? Why are they doing this to their talent?


*Isn't Vamp in charge of creative there? By all accounts I've read Vamp is one of the worst two faced backstabbing douches in the business.*


----------



## Corey

YOUR OLYMPIC HERO said:


> *How can I watch The Crash, they don't really update their youtube channel, and my cable provider doesn't have Mexican networks/channels? I've been getting really interested in Lucha recently (never been a fan before) but since I've really been watching LU again I've felt the urge to give more Lucha Libre a try. But I want to watch the new good stuff, I keep reading about The Crash being one of the good promotions, but can't find a good online presence to watch. Can you help me out here?*


As far as my knowledge goes, The Crash doesn't tape their stuff officially and release it in any way. The only way you can watch their matches is through some random footage on Youtube that was either taped by them or by someone in the crowd, etc. They aren't on TV anywhere or don't really do a_nything _officially.



YOUR OLYMPIC HERO said:


> *Isn't Vamp in charge of creative there? By all accounts I've read Vamp is one of the worst two faced backstabbing douches in the business.*


Vamp books AAA and it's fucking awful booking.


----------



## FROSTY

Corey said:


> As far as my knowledge goes, The Crash doesn't tape their stuff officially and release it in any way. The only way you can watch their matches is through some random footage on Youtube that was either taped by them or by someone in the crowd, etc. They aren't on TV anywhere or don't really do a_nything _officially.
> 
> 
> Vamp books AAA and it's fucking awful booking.


*So what I keep reading about The Crash being really good stuff, is coming from people that actually went to the shows. If they don't do TV, don't stream their shows then they must really be something to have quite a few praise them like I've seen. Sucks that I live in the mid-west and ill never get a chance to see one of their shows.*


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Triplemania XXV was pretty fun, i couldn't care less if there were doing dives or spots five minutes a match or muh vampiro this or that i enjoyed the whole show

btw today's AAA show is at Aguascalientes and it will be live-streamed on Twitch at 8:30 CT https://www.twitch.tv/luchalibreaaa

Tonight's card


----------



## USAUSA1

Crash is typical super Indy stuff. No substance better off watching pwg. AAA has their shit together at the moment but I hope they don't bring back Adr.


----------



## komatsu_na

YOUR OLYMPIC HERO said:


> *So what I keep reading about The Crash being really good stuff, is coming from people that actually went to the shows. If they don't do TV, don't stream their shows then they must really be something to have quite a few praise them like I've seen. Sucks that I live in the mid-west and ill never get a chance to see one of their shows.*


Pretty easy to find Crash shows on Youtube.


----------



## FROSTY

sengen777 said:


> Pretty easy to find Crash shows on Youtube.


*Upon searching I find mainly highlights, or shows from close to a year ago. I'm looking for new stuff, do they sell DVD's of their shows or anything like that?*


----------



## PUNQ

For me the whole Crash thing feels like a bubble. A Konnan hype thing with people recognizing a lot of the names from LU and other places and simply name-drops Crash for lucha libre recommendations without really seeing it. As noted they don't have TV or anything like that. Most of the footage that's come available are crappy hand-helds. And from the little I've seen, they've drawn lukewarm crowds. It was basically Konnan milking promoters out of a lot of money under the scheme of pretending to get them a TV deal and now he's moved on to the next project with the same scam milking more money out of money marks.


----------



## FROSTY

PUNQ said:


> For me the whole Crash thing feels like a bubble. A Konnan hype thing with people recognizing a lot of the names from LU and other places and simply name-drops Crash for lucha libre recommendations without really seeing it. As noted they don't have TV or anything like that. Most of the footage that's come available are crappy hand-helds. And from the little I've seen, they've drawn lukewarm crowds. It was basically Konnan milking promoters out of a lot of money under the scheme of pretending to get them a TV deal and now he's moved on to the next project with the same scam milking more money out of money marks.


*Yeah because in searching for The Crash vids I found one saying The Crash has let go of Konnan. So I think you may be right, even with no TV, you would think they would at least stream or tape their shows and for sale or upload them to YT to get more eyes on the product.*


----------



## Rah

YOUR OLYMPIC HERO said:


> sengen777 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty easy to find Crash shows on Youtube.
> 
> 
> 
> *Upon searching I find mainly highlights, or shows from close to a year ago. I'm looking for new stuff, do they sell DVD's of their shows or anything like that?*
Click to expand...

They have/had a Patreon page. Also there is a user that uploads everything here

https://www.youtube.com/user/MegaKakashi619


----------



## -Sambo Italiano-

I don't know dick about Lucha but I've been watching a bit of CMLL because my boy Hirai Kawato is on excursion. As a result I might actually keep up with some Lucha this year.

I was impressed by Soberano jr. Some guy with an ice cream cone sticking out of his head stole his mask, I assume it's meant be a horn but it looks like an ice cream cone.


----------



## Corey

Rey de Reyes is live on Twitch tonight. May try and tune in late for the main event if I remember. Not interested in anything else on the card.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/968664465884499973


----------



## volde

I like Fantasma and this show since it might make him into one of AAA's top stars, but they pulled so much shit with this feud in last couple of months that I'm honestly afraid to watch it since it probably will have lots of fuckery and bullshit that will hurt both guys and neither will really become top star.


----------



## Corey

volde said:


> I like Fantasma and this show since it might make him into one of AAA's top stars, but they pulled so much shit with this feud in last couple of months that I'm honestly afraid to watch it *since it probably will have lots of fuckery and bullshit that will hurt both guys and neither will really become top star.*


That's AAA in a nutshell. It's expected at this point.


----------



## USAUSA1

That because AAA authority figure died with Pena. Cmll still has Paco to say no. Dorian is young and still earning his way. I still remember people all over the net saying AAA was done, Dorian is a better promoter than people give him credit for.

I wonder if Cibernetico coming back since Elite is pretty much dead. We need a farewell Hell Brothers reunion.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

https://www.twitch.com/luchalibreaaa ten minutes!

wonder who'll be surprise wrestlers? Samoano? (from Elite and appeared at last show but unannounced) Blue Demon Jr?, Alberto el Patron?, Mr. Aguila?


----------



## Corey

Tuned in just in time for the main event... which went a whole 14 minutes. Meh


----------



## USAUSA1

Great too see Puerto Rico back up in running.


----------



## Corey

Cuatrero took Angel De Oro's mask at H2L last night. Kinda surprised me tbh.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

Lucha Libre AAA TV Taping from Cuernavaca live now on twitch

https://www.twitch.tv/luchalibreaaa


----------



## Rah

Corey said:


> Cuatrero took Angel De Oro's mask at H2L last night. Kinda surprised me tbh.


They're Dinastia Dinamitas, CMLL is going to milk that trio for all its worth. At least they're good - god knows where they got the talent, cos it ain't from their fathers.


----------



## TD Stinger

> WWE could be signing two big independent names, according to the Wrestling Observer Newsletter. Those names are Garza, Jr., and Ultimo Ninja.
> 
> Although only 25, Garza, Jr. has a nearly 10-year tenure in the pro wrestling business, starting when he was 16. He is widely recognized as the nephew of former WCW and TNA star Hector Garza, best known by fans in the United States as a member of Eddie Guerrero's Latino World Order, as well as a member of Team Mexico during the TNA America's X-Cup. Garza, Jr. followed his uncle's footsteps by also joining Impact Wrestling in 2017.
> 
> Garza, Jr. was a part of the Fatal 4-Way Tag Team Match at Slammiversary with Laredo Kid against champions LAX, along with Drago & El Hijo Del Fantasma and Taiji Ishimori & Naomichi Marufuji. He also was a part of the six-man X Division match at Bound for Glory, along with Trevor Lee, Matt Sydal, Dezmond Xavier, Petey Williams, and Sonjay Dutt.
> 
> Ultimo Ninja is the cousin of Garza, Jr., and the son of Humberto Garza, Jr., who is the uncle of Garza, Jr. although they share the same name. He has recently competed in The Crash promotion, as well as MLW and Aro Lucha.
> 
> According to the report, both Garza, Jr. and Ultimo Ninja are undergoing medicals, and is expected to be offered a contract if they pass. Garza, Jr. is coming off shoulder surgery, and was last a part of the November Impact Wrestling tapings. At the tapings, he picked up six- and 10-man tag team match victories.
> 
> The feeling of acquiring these names is that WWE is becoming aggressive in looking for new Mexican stars, as well as reconciling relationships with older stars. Recently, both Rey Mysterio and Alberto Del Rio (El Patron) have been reportedly in talks with WWE for a possible return.


Thought I would drop this here if anyone cares.


----------



## Corey

Shocker tonight! Matt fucking Taven beat Volador to win the NWA Historic Welterweight Title, ending his astounding 1,337 day reign. Taven works CMLL more than anyone else in ROH and his style fits well there but I sure as hell didn't expect to see him win the belt tonight. He joins Rocky Romero as the only guys who have ever won gold in ROH, NJPW, and CMLL. I expect it'll be a transitional reign, but still congrats to that guy! 

The match was pretty fun too. Starts at the 2 hour 40 minute mark:


----------



## volde

Saw that match booked and figured that it is going to be another filler defence for Volador and didn't even watch it. Now it looks like I need to watch it after all, not a big fan of Taven, but this is certainly big and interesting development. First guess would be that he will be transitional champ with passing it along to someone like Caristico and down the road booking Caristico vs Volador as a big match. Yes, I know that they had this match before, but Volador was the champ then so I think that swapping their spots would generate lots of interest.


----------



## v1david

Not a big Matt Taven fan tbh, however really liked the match. I wouldn't go as far as 4 stars, but worth checking out for sure.


----------



## v1david

Thought I'd drop this here. I made a video about one of the best young highflyers in Mexico, who has yet to catch a break and get work at a bigger promotion. He's super talented and a really nice guy as well. Remember his name, you'll see him a lot in the future I'm sure. Anyways, hope you enjoy the video.


----------



## Corey

Weird decision to do this for the first time in Puebla, but I'll probably tune in for it after RAW.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/981551831468904448


----------



## Stetho

Wow, will watch


----------



## MC

Awesome. Looking forward to that.


----------



## volde

Corey said:


> Weird decision to do this for the first time in Puebla, but I'll probably tune in for it after RAW.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/981551831468904448


Maybe they are hoping for a bit more "balanced" crowd since from what I have seen Arena Mexico goes 100% with Caristico and Mistico usually ends up being most hated guy on the show. Nah, Caristico will still get 100% support. 

These two guys are blessing and a curse at the same time for CMLL. On one hand mask vs mask match of theirs would probably do absurd numbers. On the other hand fumble their feud and lots of people will be pissed.


----------



## Corey

volde said:


> Maybe they are hoping for a bit more "balanced" crowd since from what I have seen Arena Mexico goes 100% with Caristico and Mistico usually ends up being most hated guy on the show. Nah, Caristico will still get 100% support.
> 
> These two guys are blessing and a curse at the same time for CMLL. *On one hand mask vs mask match of theirs would probably do absurd numbers.* On the other hand fumble their feud and lots of people will be pissed.


Absolutely. I think they might be testing this match to see how much of a draw it really is tbh. Puebla was a packed house this past week for the Trios Title match but it was also a holiday weekend so maybe they're seeing if they can draw the same without the holiday attached.

Who am I kidding though, this is CMLL. They're probably doing this match for fun and it'll never amount to anything. :lol


----------



## Corey

Damn, so the night after Caristico/Mistico we're getting another nice little fresh singles match:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/981911743197843456


----------



## Corey

This match looks like a total mess but I figured at least one or two people might be interested enough in it.


----------



## MC

***** Casas faces Soberano on tonights show!!! Good looking match. Could be really good.


----------



## El Grappleador

Ladies and Gentleman, Rey Mysterio comes back to AAA on PPV "Verano de Escandalo".


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/984911788364922880
It seems There is not a deal with WWE yet.


----------



## Corey

Good on Rey for trying to work every major promotion that he can. Greatest Royal Rumble at the end of the month and it looked like they still left the opportunity open for a match against Liger and/or Ospreay in New Japan. Don't really think there's a match they can put him in for AAA that would get me all that excited but I'm sure it'll do great numbers regardless.


----------



## MC

Yeah, no other match except Wagner and Fantasmo would get me interested enough to watch him in AAA. Cool that he is back there though.


----------



## USAUSA1

Dorian has been making some good moves lately.


----------



## Stetho

It seems like Konnan's kliq and AAA may get along again soon... Not that it was unpredictable


----------



## volde

Stetho said:


> It seems like Konnan's kliq and AAA may get along again soon... Not that it was unpredictable


And we will be again able to speculate how long Konnan will last.


----------



## WOKELAND2

Ricky Marvin Vs Kawato San

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFZPdEjqZ98[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Stetho

Hope this new version of Konnan AAA will last and won't explode once again. Doubt so.


----------



## USAUSA1

I am shock Cibernetico hasn't returned yet.


----------



## Corey

Why are there so many surprise luchadors on that card?


----------



## El Grappleador

Corey said:


> Why are there so many surprise luchadors on that card?


Ditto.

In addition, why the fuck are cruiserweight luchadors contending for one shot for a Heavyweight Championship? It looks like Rey Mysterio being World Heavyweight Champion on WWE.

I don't think Konnan has evolved. I think He will still foolish with that invasions' storylines. MAD is a hint. I don't think Konnan contribute with something innovative on AAA. I know He attracts fans, but IDK why does he try with same old shit.


----------



## USAUSA1

AAA can easily be the hottest thing if they gave Aerostar a mega push at the top before he gets too old.


----------



## wrestling_fan_03

El Grappleador said:


> Ditto.
> 
> In addition, why the fuck are cruiserweight luchadors contending for one shot for a Heavyweight Championship? It looks like Rey Mysterio being World Heavyweight Champion on WWE.
> 
> I don't think Konnan has evolved. I think He will still foolish with that invasions' storylines. MAD is a hint. I don't think Konnan contribute with something innovative on AAA. I know He attracts fans, but IDK why does he try with same old shit.


Let's wait and give it a shot man.

I mean Wagner and Mysterio alone sound good, maybe we will get Johnny Mundo or Alberto El Patron as the surprised luchador.


----------



## MC

Just had a look at tonight's card and it looks decent enough




> CMLL (MON) 14/05/2018 - Arena Puebla
> 
> 1) Astro, Black Tiger, Meyer vs Ares, El Perverso, Rey Apocalipsis
> 2) Arkalis, Príncipe Diamante, Saurón vs Espíritu Maligno, Metálico, Sangre Azteca
> 3) Lady Maravilla, Marcela, Princesa Sugehit vs Amapola, La Comandante, La Seductora
> 4) Euforia, Gran Guerrero, Rush vs Kráneo, Rey Bucanero, Terrible
> 5) Ángel de Oro, Mistico, Niebla Roja vs Cuatrero, Mephisto, Sansón


----------



## Corey

The surprise luchadors were all revealed for that AAA show:


----------



## volde

Finished watching Gran Alternativa finals and at first I was baffled by Templario not winning it, but then La Park made his glorious return to CMLL and everything suddenly made perfect sense. They teased a Park/Rush mask vs hair match and I was hyped as fuck, but then La Park got the mic and I started wondering if he won't get "fired" again. 

Rush needs a big win. La Park probably needs a pay day and to secure a spot for his son. It all makes perfect sense here, lets just hope that Rush being Rush, La Park being La Park and CMLL being CMLL won't fuck this up. And big question is if they already didn't fuck it up with that mic segment


----------



## NastyYaffa

Rush vs. LA Park, Hair vs. Mask. Holy fucking shit :sodone


----------



## MC

:wow That's a big match. Can't see La Park losing his mask though


----------



## Corey

To clarify, this match is NOT confirmed yet, correct? Cause these empty challenges just happen all year long.


----------



## volde

Well one would think that CMLL wouldn't have allowed La Park to return in the first place if they weren't thinking about actually doing this match.


----------



## Rah

Rush/LA PARKA APUESTA??????????????????????????????????????

In CMLL? oh... yey


----------



## USAUSA1

We have 4 months to go. I guess the Psycho/Park talks died when AAA announce the four way cage match. I doubt Park will get Wagner type of money from cmll. I just hope Rush don't leave for nxt right after he take the mask, that would be f up.

La Park going to make a lot of money on the Indy scene this summer. Must see


----------



## Corey

God damn I hope they follow through with this. :mark:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1000221380728819713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1000217949146439681

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1000223351636455424


----------



## Rah

Ok. I take back my apprehension. Leave it to Rush and Parka to not give a fuck about CMLL's policies.


----------



## volde

Yeah, Rush does something almost on monthly basis that prompts "if this was someone else then he'd be fired" comments so I think it is a safe bet that this won't be your usual CMLL big match.


----------



## Corey

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1001960788645634048


----------



## Stetho

Soooo weird.
lolmao at CMLL promo work tho.


----------



## MR-Bolainas

AAA's TV Taping Started!!

https://www.twitch.tv/luchalibreaaa


----------



## Stetho

Fuck yeah Taurus! Love this guy


----------



## Corey

2 title matches this week for CMLL along with another Park/Rush tag. Mysterio/Wagner on Sunday for AAA. Big weekend for Lucha!


----------



## volde

Cuatrero/Angel del Oro was cool match. Not as good as their mask vs mask match, but still fun and moved things further. That is, if you care about their "rivalry".


----------



## USAUSA1

Predicting Rush working aaa with cmll blessings by the end of the year.


----------



## MTheBehemoth

I have no idea how Jarrett keeps doing that. The true king of carnies.


----------



## USAUSA1

Lucha is on fire right now. Historic year


----------



## MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1004044245076885504
holy shit :mark


----------



## USAUSA1

Park said Cmll hasn't offer him the mask vs hair match yet. But he is willing to do hair vs hair if necessary.

Konnan want to do an AAA vs cmll event. 

An AAA/Cmll alliance would benefit lucha underground so much.


----------



## volde

Fantasma looks like an obvious fall guy there. 

Can CMLL advertise Rush/La Park as Hair/Mask with an asterix that it will be hair/hair if La Park ends up losing his mask in Triplemania?


----------



## RatherBeAtNitro

Some sites reporting that it is AAA who have the date hold for Madison Square Garden later in the year.


----------



## Stetho

And once again, AAA won. Can hate them all you want on the internet, they always do and that's why they probably don't care about internet fame points.


----------



## USAUSA1

Aaa won but in this case all parties won. I am still worried AAA is spending too much money. Rey,JJ and Del Rio is expensive. Konnan like too spend money. Plus, who is staying after triplemania to justify the spending?


----------



## volde

I don't entirely understand what AAA has won here? That La Park will work their main event?


----------



## USAUSA1

volde said:


> I don't entirely understand what AAA has won here? That La Park will work their main event?


A strong main event for the company,wrestlers and fans. I don't think it will top Wagner vs Psycho but it's a great follow up.

Kind of feel sorry for Crash. They didn't sealed the deal.


----------



## WokeLand

What your dream opponent for the Mike Quackenbush?

In my opinion: ***** Casas or Hechicero


----------



## Corey

Confirmed that Matt Taven is as big a draw in Mexico as LA Park. :lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1007351036045078528


----------



## volde

A bit surprised, in a pleasant way, that Cuatrero and Angel del Oro drew 12k fans for their mask match.


----------



## Corey

Rush vs. Park happens tonight. You're probably gonna wanna tune in.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1010163256059727872


----------



## MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1013112952369696768
Some sort of mix up between the company and Casas regarding being allowed to wrestle on the show.


----------



## Corey

:hmmm An entire ROH vs. CMLL Gran Prix would be fantastic. My favorite show that CMLL runs all year.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1014647539914731520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1014648086768087040


----------



## WokeLand

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1015377118773981184
First Match Announcement for the show ROH Vs CMLL.


----------



## Corey

NICE


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1016502611409809408
I really hope Taven doesn't drop the title right back to Volador. Would be pretty pointless.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1019728483637792770

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1019697066371514368
Holy shit this August 3rd show is must watch. :mark:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1022251113058328576


----------



## Stetho

Looks like a Crash main event. CMLL is getting weird lol


----------



## USAUSA1

Stetho said:


> Looks like a Crash main event. CMLL is getting weird lol


It's typical but not complaining.


----------



## Corey

I can't remember the last time I was this excited for a CMLL show. Probably not since last year's Grand Prix (which Elgin should have won dammit). Arena Mexico should be PACKED tomorrow night. :mark:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1025038335167873025


----------



## Stetho

Hope now Fenix wins the title at Triplemania and gets attacked by Pentagon!


----------



## volde

It would be all kinds of retarded if Jarret retained. 

Speaking about retarded, CMLL released ticket prices for Anniversario and they aren't very high (lower than Atlantis mask matches basically) which caused lots of people speculating that La Park/Rush ain't happening this year. Atlantis vs some random old dude probably ain't happening either so it is very possible that CMLL will do some retarded cage match. 

On the other hand cheap tickets are noticeably more expensive than previous years. And I have no idea how many of those they are selling so maybe with full sell out it would actually result in respectable gate?


----------



## Corey

So Volador won the title back.  Pretty pointless title reign from Taven. Match was good enough but Tirantes was fucking horrible as usual. 

Main event was a brawl. Briscoes fit in great. Rush finally made the challenge to Park for the mask at the Anniversary show. Still nothing officially announced at this point but he wants no rules. CMLL still playing it safe.


----------



## volde

Corey said:


> So Volador won the title back.  Pretty pointless title reign from Taven. Match was good enough but Tirantes was fucking horrible as usual.


Well after Taven won the title Volador lost his other two titles as well so I guess this was short fall and redemption storyline for Volador. And well Taven is a face now and is booked for next few shows so maybe they are still going somewhere with this.


----------



## Rah

volde said:


> It would be all kinds of retarded if Jarret retained.
> 
> Speaking about retarded, CMLL released ticket prices for Anniversario and they aren't very high (lower than Atlantis mask matches basically) which caused lots of people speculating that La Park/Rush ain't happening this year. Atlantis vs some random old dude probably ain't happening either so it is very possible that CMLL will do some retarded cage match.
> 
> On the other hand cheap tickets are noticeably more expensive than previous years. And I have no idea how many of those they are selling so maybe with full sell out it would actually result in respectable gate?


Wagner got a $250k payout from a $625k gate. I'm guessing CMLL would do fine but they're smart for not putting all in considering AAA could outbid them on Parka out of spite or Parka does something stupid to get thrown out, again. Has he told the crowd to go fuck their mothers yet?


----------



## volde

Well since he keeps getting booked I imagine that he hasn't yet told the crowd to fuck their mothers. But you are likely correct that AAA could outbid them or La Park could just do something crazy. I guess he'd even like the heat that he'd get for fucking up CMLL's main event.


----------



## MC

Looks like little Kazu will be having another excursion on next weeks Friday show. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1027313277628567552


----------



## WOKELAND2

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1028325449506676742
......................... Are you seriously, CMLL? 

You present him as "the best wrestler in the world" and you place him in a Generic Trios Match.

You have no shame, cabron.


----------



## Stetho

Not a surprise tho.


----------



## volde

Only someone who doesn't watch CMLL could expect something different


----------



## Rah

Let's be honest, no matter where you stand on Okada, I'm pretty sure we can agree that 

1) a lucha singles match with him would suck egg. Hechicero or Casas are the only exceptions - and even then I'd be worried Casas does his Ishii cosplay act. Heaven forbid I have to see a 60 year old man do forearm exchanges and no sell repeated germans.

2) which star do they put out to take the fall? They couldn't just book Valiente straight, who would want to see that? But we know he's taking the pin loss here. You cant have your household names taking L's from excursion guys they won't get their win back from. 

If CMLL wanted to cement a young star by having him fall just short of winning, then maybe. But CMLL really doesn't have new blood to push. 

Again, Casas would be the exception as he could lose forever and never lose credibility but CMLL are booking on name value here not match quality. It's a pretty insane line up box-office wise (bear in mind I'm still living in 2013 numbers so idk what business is like now)


----------



## volde

And I feel like they aren't that high on Hechicero to give him special singles match on Friday night.

As was expected, we actually aren't getting Rush/La Park. Instead it is Volador/Taven vs Rush/Cavernario. Losing team gets shaved. It probably is going to be hot match, but still feels disappointing. Maybe next year?


----------



## Corey

Yep, that's why I tried to tell people not to get their hopes up. 

The match would've been much better imo if it was just Rush vs. Volador. Taven and Cavernario being involved is odd. But how about MATT fucking TAVEN being in a CMLL Anniversary main event!? :lol


----------



## Rah

Hahahaahaha

CMLL gonna CMLL. This is Atlantis/UG all over again.


----------



## MC

_sigh _ Totally expected since the AAA match was announced.


----------



## Jokerface17

How are you guys watching CMLL or AAA?


----------



## MC

Jokerface17 said:


> How are you guys watching CMLL or AAA?


CMLL is on their official YouTube page on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday (but this is a interview format show in Spanish) and Fridays (the one to watch).

AAA is a bit harder, they have shows on YouTube but it's put up on a irregular basis. There are also shows on Twitch for free that you can watch as well. TripleMania is on in a few days too, that should be easy to find.

That's just how I watch it, sure others have better ways, for AAA especially.


----------



## volde

Corey said:


> Yep, that's why I tried to tell people not to get their hopes up.
> 
> The match would've been much better imo if it was just Rush vs. Volador. Taven and Cavernario being involved is odd. But how about MATT fucking TAVEN being in a CMLL Anniversary main event!? :lol


This is probably some weird logic:

1. Rush or Volador won't look as bad in a loss since it was not a 1vs1 match. 
2. Cavernario or Taven will get some rub even if they couldn't sniff main event of Anniversario on their own.


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

How LA Park is drawing like crazy this year? Is it just because he made jump to CMLL? Or there are some other reasons?


----------



## Yeah1993

volde said:


> As was expected, we actually aren't getting Rush/La Park.


----------



## IndyTaker

I like the lucha style but it's hard to find lucha libre with English commentary.


----------



## Miguel De Juan

No one watching this insane Triplemania?


----------



## Stetho

This had me highly sports entertained. Feel pretty sad for the vast majority of people who don't understand this


----------



## Miguel De Juan

Dave shit on Triplemania but I honestly thought it was way more entertaining than Summerslam.


----------



## volde

It is about as different to what Dave likes as you can get so no surprise that he didn't like it.


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

Now starting to watch the show. See you at the other side.


----------



## USAUSA1

It was a little too long or maybe started later than I am used too but entertaining . It was made for the aaa fanbase. It wasn't trying to be like other promotions which Konnan tried to do in the past. Predictable finish to the main event but I do think Park is getting that huge payday next year since Rush vs Park will not happen. I think Konnan vs Vampiro 957th will do well. I haven't been paying attention to lucha underground but I assume King Cuerno will lose his mask.


----------



## grassfinn

AAA fills the trashy, carny wrestling void I very so much miss. Bless it. It's the one promotion that isn't trying to do a bunch of fake awesome fake fights and just stays true to what wrestling is. Trash entertainment.


----------



## Corey

The truest tweet I've ever seen. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1034625386716508170


----------



## TheGravyTrain

Really enjoyed Triplemania, last one I watched it was terrible, botches constantly. This one was very entertaining. Great to have it in English so a lot more foreign eyes can have a better understand of everything, hopefully can be the same for many/all their PPV's.


----------



## Obfuscation

Corey said:


> The truest tweet I've ever seen.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1034625386716508170


This is one of my biggest pet peeves.

Not the formatting; that works. The complaints that these matches aren't like "how America does it."


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

I'm not gonna lie. Triplemania looked terrible. And full disclosure, I'm definitely one of those people who has never really watched lucha libre (unless LU counts) and I just saw this video pop up in my youtube recommendations






Seemed like they gave up on any kind of timing or really anything that would communicate "this is a professional event"

I think I'll watch more AAA after this actually. Something very entertaining about that trash


----------



## MC

King Jesus said:


> I'm not gonna lie. Triplemania looked terrible. And full disclosure, I'm definitely one of those people who has never really watched lucha libre (unless LU counts) and I just saw this video pop up in my youtube recommendations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seemed like they gave up on any kind of timing or really anything that would communicate "this is a professional event"
> 
> I think I'll watch more AAA after this actually. Something very entertaining about that trash


I wouldn't take the video seriously. They didn't even know that there was two La Parkas so it's not something to base the show on. Baring the awful commentary, the show wash pretty good.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

MC 16 said:


> I wouldn't take the video seriously. They didn't even know that there was two La Parkas so it's not something to base the show on. Baring the awful commentary, the show wash pretty good.


Yeah take away the awful commentary and a lot of the botches are still pretty bad. I felt like I was watching the finish to Aleister Black v Lars Sullivan over and over again like, cringing p hard. But there was other stuff the video points out that I thought was just entertaining like the ref v ref segment and all that stuff - just because you're not used to seeing it doesn't make it bad. Or like, when the guys were ripping each other's masks nearly off. I've seen enough lucha to know that it's not uncommon and not that serious enough to say "they're doing something WRONG"

Overall the charm of the show did overshadow the mistakes that were made


----------



## WOKELAND2

Actually, the event is surprisingly good.

A yes, Vampiro and Striker es suck, Hugo is best.


----------



## Obfuscation

There was a trashiness to it, but it was all fun in that sort of way.

That's how AAA tends to do it.


----------



## volde

King Jesus said:


> Or like, when the guys were ripping each other's masks nearly off. I've seen enough lucha to know that it's not uncommon and not that serious enough to say "they're doing something WRONG"


It feels like lots of American (and European I guess) wrestling fans think that masks exist only to protect the identify of the wrestler. So when some bigger name gets his mask ripped hard it is treated as something noteworthy.


----------



## Miguel De Juan

Fans in Mexico like this sort of wrestling. Mainly the AAA fans. The fans like the high flying spectacles, hardcore stuff, wild brawls, and strange (to Americans) mat wrestling.

The wage of masks and hair matches are bigger deals as it is a symbol of honor. Probably overshadowing the titles at times though certain guys winning the title mean something.


----------



## volde

I'd say that mask is always bigger than the title.


----------



## Obfuscation

Mask tearing is always a constant in heated feuds and Apuesta matches. That's part of the appeal, seeing the blood pour and the faces partially exposed.


----------



## TD Stinger

I was curious to catch some of the show. Kind of skimmed through with all the multi man matches. Though I did laugh at that segment with Konnan and Vampiro with Vampiro on the outside waiting for his music.

"Where is the fucking music!" :lol

MOTN for me, from what I saw, was that 4 Way Ladder match with Bandido and Flamita, Aerostar & Drago, and others.


----------



## Stetho

King Jesus said:


> I'm not gonna lie. Triplemania looked terrible. And full disclosure, I'm definitely one of those people who has never really watched lucha libre (unless LU counts) and I just saw this video pop up in my youtube recommendations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seemed like they gave up on any kind of timing or really anything that would communicate "this is a professional event"
> 
> I think I'll watch more AAA after this actually. Something very entertaining about that trash


Video of your typical internet nerd who doesn't know shit about lucha libre but tries to be funny mocking it.


----------



## grassfinn

Goddamn, Jarrett fucked Dr. Wagner Jr UP in their match tonight. Looking forward to their inevitable match if it's gonna be half as brutal as that.



Spoiler: .


----------



## Obfuscation

Wagner rocking the La Parka suit again? Wonder if he tried another swerve, only it didn't work.


----------



## Ham and Egger

I somehow one night randomly started watching CMLLs YouTube shows and now I'm kinda interested in the product. What nearly made me die of laughter was seeing the midget wrestlers and there was one guy who was like 2 feet tall tops and seeing the crowd lose their shit for him and his limited spots was cool to see. Watching the show I literally see from start to finish where each guy is positioned on the card and in each match there is at least one guy who is the most over to the crowd. I honestly don't know what is happening because for years I never got into Lucha Libre but now I'm down for it!


----------



## Stetho

Damn this is a really entertaining trios match


----------



## volde

Anniversario show turned out to be pretty good and right team went over.


----------



## Jokerface17

*AAA and CMLL*

I've really been wanting to get into watching them but I have no idea how to watch them. Is there an app or a site for English commentary?


----------



## SuckaFreeSince83

AAA has an English twitch feed.


----------



## volde

*Re: AAA and CMLL*



Jokerface17 said:


> I've really been wanting to get into watching them but I have no idea how to watch them. Is there an app or a site for English commentary?


CMLL has youtube channel were they upload many of their shows, Friday ones are usually the best. Sadly they are not in English, but you usually can find translations of promos on twitter later.


----------



## Corey

BIG MIKE is back! Let him get the win this year.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1042496994437148679


----------



## RKing85

Very VERY casual CMLL fan here. Who are the best 5 in ring workers in CMLL right now?


----------



## famicommander

RKing85 said:


> Very VERY casual CMLL fan here. Who are the best 5 in ring workers in CMLL right now?


That's a tough question because their roster is massive and diverse, but here are five that most will agree are great:
Rush
Dragon Lee
Volador Jr
Stuka Jr
Ultimo Guerrero (he's old but he's still great)


----------



## RKing85

thanks. appreciated.


----------



## Obfuscation

Remove Dragon Lee with El Soberano Jr. + Barbaro Cavernario and that's an ideal popular list.

Also, obviously ***** Casas & La Parka, when there, are a given.


----------



## volde

Nobody mentioning Hechicero hurts my soul.

Final, for now, Gran Prix teams:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1045074498289119232
Still no idea who Dark Magic is, Flip Gordon can fuck off and I'm not a big fan of Okamura either. But other than that lineup looks pretty fucking good. 

Noteworthy thing, Taven was not supposed to be on this card, but probably CMLL realized that Volador/Taven is something that people want to see. I'm sure that few months later we are bound to get Volador/Tave hair vs hair match.


----------



## Obfuscation

I have a lot of fun with Okumura; kind of wish he was in Japan more often than the Fantasticamania tour each year.

Elgin & Finlay are interesting additions. It's like this weird blend of ROH and New Japan guys on loan together. Taven in CMLL really is picking up steam. I know he was a champion for a spell, then found his way into the main event of the Aniversario show, but it's kind of starting to really stick out.

Lining up Caristico next to Flip Gordon, good lord. That's a train-wreck.


----------



## Corey

Big Mike gets the win he DESERVED from last year! :mark: BIG MIKE!!!

I love that no one wants to book him in the US, over in Japan they book him like ass, but at least some country looks at him as a top guy! :lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1048427700967395328


----------



## volde

I got the impression that if they could, CMLL would book him regularly.


----------



## Obfuscation

Saw this earlier; cool stuff. Elgin vs Ultimo Guerrero here. Now that's something I'm totally in for.

Who knew Elgin would possibly thrive in Mexico? But I'll support it.


----------



## Ghost Lantern

*Please someone...Psycho Clown, explain the popularity?*

Been watching some Luchas again,

It's been a while since my local cable picked up AAA or CMLL, but the last time I was watching regularly the Circus team, Zombie (Monster), Murder, and Psycho were getting a huge trios push. 

Next thing I know Psycho Clown is headlining cards and taking the mask of Dr Wagner Jr? WTH?

I know he is a part of the Alvarado wrestling family but that can't be all. How did he get so over? Is he really that over? 

Someone who is keeping up with luchas fill me in....please.


----------



## PUNQ

*Re: Please someone...Psycho Clown, explain the popularity?*

You probable answered your own question. He's a Brazo.... the cool runs in their blood.


----------



## Stetho

*Re: Please someone...Psycho Clown, explain the popularity?*

Clown with a flamethrower. How is that not cool?
Plus kids love him.


----------



## USAUSA1

IWA PUERTO RICO returning in January with 3 events. With the Puerto rico scene being horrible and no promotion can barely draw a thousand,this looks intriguing.


----------



## Rah

There's a new Santo/Casas match that's popped up from 1991. That makes four new Santo/Casas matches to be found just this year. Bless the Internet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pvp4F19MwQ


----------



## USAUSA1

Damn Rush


----------



## El Grappleador

Greetings!

As Alexa Bliss's Topless became viral. I reminded when Perros del Mal (on its promoter's age) made a bras and panties match. Loser was Sexy Star and you know the remaining story.


----------



## USAUSA1

Aaa first 2019 show on twitch was trash but had a few bright spots. The Pepsi building looks great. 

Viking,Myzteziz Jr and Parka Negra did well , great future ahead. Murder clown performed well.

La Parka son was introduced, no muscles or tone like his dad.

The next few cards looks great on paper.

Tonight twitch show has been really fun.


----------



## Aincrad

Ohooooo, CMLL's Universal Tournament starts tonight. Looks like Atlantis Jr is wrestling in Arena Mexico for the first time (?) tonight


----------



## USAUSA1

Aaa officially announced they left televisa. But the underlying big news is that they regain rights to sell the show in the US. Dorian really have no reason for lucha underground. They can go to El Rey and be like we can offer you a new show every week at a much cheaper price.


----------



## Stetho

I think it'll be better for everyone at this point indeed


----------



## volde

Aincrad said:


> Ohooooo, CMLL's Universal Tournament starts tonight. Looks like Atlantis Jr is wrestling in Arena Mexico for the first time (?) tonight


He did okay, nothing spectacular, but it doesn't feel like he is shitting up the place. I just hope that CMLL doesn't overpush him while he is still learning.

From AAA's point of view, isn't entire purpose of LU now to keep certain contracted wrestler from working promotions they don't want them to work?


----------



## USAUSA1

1. Aaa signs a TV deal with Azteca. Azteca paying for production and aaa getting rights fees.
2. Aaa is negotiating with another network in Mexico they are currently airing on.
3. Aaa will be airing on Azteca America, more TV homes than El Rey. 
4. Impact has been promoting an aaa vs impact tag match all week.
5. Two live twitch tapings this weekend 
6.LU lawsuits
7. Partnership with AEW announced 

One hell of a week.


----------



## Stetho

AAA always wins.


----------



## El Grappleador

IDK Who loses at the end? If AAA having a mediocre commentators team on Azteca or Televisa having no Lucha or "El Rudo" Rivera, Jesus Zuniga, Andres Maronas, Hugo Savinovich and Jose Manuel Guillen & Bernardo Guzman having no job.


----------



## Stetho

Well, Cody will be at Rey de Reyes.
I just hope he doesn't end up being the new Jeff Jarrett and joining whatever Konnan heel faction. 

With this and DON, there's probably enough time to set up an apuesta match for Triplemania, it could be fun if they pick the right guy.


----------



## USAUSA1

Rey de Reyes in English https://m.twitch.tv/luchalibreaaa_en


----------



## El Grappleador

My gripe with Rey de Reyes is hardcore crowd(mostly families) didn't react with The Elite introducing and Young Bucks crowning.
I see AAA corcerns by competing against WWE and don't attracting its hardcore crowd.

In addittion, there is a mexican slang on lucha: "Lucha al vapor". These matches lack a well developed rivalry, just announce the match and there it goes. It happens with AAA, The Crash, CMLL, even with WWE. 
Long-term planning must be required.


----------



## Stetho

I miss Hijo del Perro Aguayo so fucking hard.


----------



## Donnie

Could anyone please tell me the names of the dudes who helped Konnan beat the shit out of Cody at the AAA show


----------



## PUNQ

On the Rey De Reyes 2019 show? That was Taurus, El Texano Jr. & Rey Escorpion.


----------



## Donnie

PUNQ said:


> On the Rey De Reyes 2019 show? That was Taurus, El Texano Jr. & Rey Escorpion.


Thankyou


----------



## Even Flow

> AAA will be holding a press conference next Thursday 4/4 at Madison Square Garden.
> 
> A press advisory issued regarding the conference noted AAA was coming to the United States in September 2019 and that the conference would include an opportunity for "AAA’s top executive [to] share his vision for Lucha Libre’s next chapter."
> 
> As PWInsider.com reported last year, AAA had two holds to run Madison Square Garden for the Fall of 2018, dates that came and passed without any shows being officially announced or run. As PWInsider.com reported in June 2018, "We are told that AAA is working on strategies for running this Fall but have also considered pushing back their debut until 2019 as they want to maximize it and not waste the time, money and effort going into the debut."
> 
> One would think this press conference would reveal a debut date for AAA running MSG, potentially in partnership with All Elite Wrestling, who they are officially partnered with.
> 
> AAA ran the Theater in Madison Square Garden (now known as the Hulu Theater) in July 1994, headlined by Konnan & Cien Caras & Perro Aguayo vs. Eddie Guerrero & Art Barr & Jake Roberts.
> 
> Ring of Honor and New Japan Pro Wrestling will become the first promotion outside of WWE to hold an event in the 20,789-seat Garden at next Saturday's G1 Supercard. The move was a major breaking down of walls as their event was the first since 1961 to be presented by someone outside the McMahon family and WWE.


.


----------



## El Grappleador

Seniores and senioritas,

Mexican congress is close to establish 09.21 as Lucha Day. 

I'm so excited cause lucha represent a part of mexican culture. Anybody most espectacular than masks, aerial moves and art of quick grappling & reversal.

So, why has 9.21 chosen to celebrate?
Well, that's the day when Empresa Mexicana de Lucha Libre (EMLL) was founded. 

It's a glorious day for lucha!


----------



## Chairshot620

The press conference starts at 11:45AM. Should be interesting to see if they mention any involvement from AEW.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Obfuscation

Maybe what AAA needed to get this show to finally happen was AEW. Entirely possible this actually becomes a thing. Again, more wild possibilities in wrestling.


----------



## El Grappleador

Hey, familia! I wanna share this recent match between Bandido and Hijo del Fantasma. It happened 2 days ago.

Enjoy!

One fall match
Bandido Vs Hijo del Fantasma
Lucha Libre Real
Arena Azteca Budokan
4/28/19


----------



## RKing85

I doubt it would have made a difference, but seriously, what the fuck was that ref doing???? Completely out to lunch.

RIP Silver King


----------



## Sensei Utero

Rest in Power, Silver King.


----------



## El Grappleador

Ladies and Gentlemen, Octagon won Lawsuit against AAA. He owns the rights of the gimmick now. After Kilos...
This is not the first time who La Tres Veces Estelar lost a similar case. The company lost against Mascara Sagrada almost a decade ago.


----------



## USAUSA1

That Vikingo vs Laredo Kid match from tonight was Eddie vs Rey level insane.


----------



## El Grappleador

Ladies and gentlemen: Triplemania XVII Main Event turned into a Career VS Career match. If Wagner loses, he retires. If Demon loses, he will fight a last match on MSG and retires.


----------



## volde

I find it hard to believe that Wagner, or Demon, will really retire.


----------



## El Grappleador

RIP Perro Aguayo Sr. Donde estan perros? At Heavenly Arena.


----------



## USAUSA1

RIP PACO

He died young like Pena and Joaquin. 

His death might change everything. Paco was blocking cmll from working with AAA. He also had personal vendettas. Dorian wants a relationship with Cmll.


----------



## El Grappleador

RIP Paco Alonso.

I'll try to watch what happen with CMLL under hands of Sofia and Chavo.


----------



## Stetho

Having more fun with AAA right now than with any AEW event tbh


----------



## Sensei Utero

Been watching a load of LU matches recently. Miss that promotion already.


----------



## USAUSA1

Brother Utero said:


> Been watching a load of LU matches recently. Miss that promotion already.


Dont worry, aaa wrestlers will probably be all over AEW on TNT on a Wednesday night.


----------



## Stetho

USAUSA1 said:


> Dont worry, aaa wrestlers will probably be all over AEW on TNT on a Wednesday night.


Well do you think they will be used properly or they'll just toss everyone in a tag team because they're mexicans?


----------



## TD Stinger

Stetho said:


> Well do you think they will be used properly or they'll just toss everyone in a tag team because they're mexicans?


I imagine they'll be highlighted as big imported talents.

But the sad thing is we'll probably never have a show again with a cast of characters like Lucha Underground. I mean I like guys like Pentagon and Fenix, but there is a huge difference in watching them in LU where they both had these deep stories and watching them in Impact or AEW where they're just The Lucha Brothers who have fun matches, and that's it.


----------



## Sensei Utero

Watched this last night. Bit of a confusing ending, but good match with good story, and a load of blood added in too.


----------



## USAUSA1

Recognize someone?


----------



## Stetho

For those who don't know it's Pentagon Jr.
HE changed so much lol


----------



## USAUSA1

Triplemania day!!!!!!!!

We have been blessed as lucha fans in the past 15 years with huge matches and lucha is bigger than ever. Look at this year Pwg Battle of LA participants. AEW short history, Lucha underground,Ring of Honor Global Wars announcement. Lucha have officially taken over the landscape. 

Very intrigued by Cain match. Who is the mystery man? It looks like a fun show overall. 

Looking at the main event makes me mad that we will never get Hijo Del Santo vs Blue Demon Jr mask vs mask. It's the biggest match possible for lucha and both guys are old but capable. Maybe aaa can convince the fake Parka to lose his match next year and pass the torch to his skinny son.


----------



## MetalKiwi

Is this where the chat will be about TRIPLEMANIA XXVII??? No other section on this forum?


----------



## USAUSA1

I guess so but I will be mostly on Twitter myself. Pre show match was crazy.


----------



## Mister Abigail

Scarlet Bordeux is the hottest woman in wrestling. 

Triple mania is great so far.


----------



## Obfuscation

Aero Star did it again.

Never book this guy in a scaffold match. He'd never win because he couldn't resist.


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

what a clusterfuck was that reina de reinas match. up to the cain velasquez match still watching.


----------



## Obfuscation

It wouldn't be AAA without a clusterfuck.


----------



## MC

Going to watch the whole show later but that main event was fantastic. Top 5 of the year minimum for me.


----------



## Obfuscation

So much blood. kada

Excellent battle. Knowing Blue Demon Jr. had 0% chance of losing (standard Lucha), still had all kinds of grand emotion. Hell of a way for Dr. Wagner Jr. to retire.


----------



## MC

The use of the hammer which then transition into Demon locking the Fujiwara was just an awesome chain of wrestling. 

What an image: 



Spoiler: Slightly too big of an image (Blood Warning)


----------



## Obfuscation

When the hammer was brought out. :mark:

All of the post-match Blue Demon Jr. was taking it all in, celebrating, face-to-face with Wagner and he was just oozing blood non-stop. So many crazy visuals. This was the kind of Lucha war I'm always going to live for.


----------



## Miguel De Juan

I loved the Wagner Jr./Blue Demon Jr. match. So great. Blood and violence as it should be for what it is. I loved how Wagner's hand was useless and he was crippled fighting from behind. Never seen a guy lose to a rock to the head.
Don't care what anyone says. This is how a blood/wager feud should climax.


----------



## Mister Abigail

Is that chick who missed the ladder dead or what?


----------



## Stetho

Once again, great show by AAA.
Too bad the vast majority of american marks are too dumb to enjoy it. 

I'm officially a Hijo del Vikingo mark now. 
Glad that Kenny seemed to have fun.
And damn this main event.


----------



## USAUSA1

Vikingo visa paper work is good so expect a ton of US bookings.

Omega saying AEW is better than aaa makes me think we about to get a big AAA vs AEW feud. Is Omega willing to jobbed?

Taurus might be the best wrestler in the world or at least tied with Cavernario. He made Cain look great. 

Aerostar entrance was some lucha underground type of stuff.


----------



## Asuka842

-The main event was really good. Fantastic work considering you had two 50+ year olds in it.

-Aerostar's entrance was insane.

-Even AAA can see that Tessa is a fucking star, good.

-Kenny's comments were, interesting and I'm curious to see if/what the follow-up will be.

-Etc.

All in all, an enjoyable show.


----------



## 304418

Triplemania was a good show. I enjoyed it.


----------



## Miguel De Juan

Melzter still doesn't get why AAA is popular. Their entire style is for specific audience in Mexico. I enjoy them and their worst years were when Del Rio was there and then they lost Perro Jr tragically. They bounced back however after dumping Sexy Star and Rio. The wild brawls and unexpected craziness are why I love it.


----------



## Obfuscation

In regards to the two major promotions, the differences in say AAA to CMLL are why I enjoy both. One is based on the traditions, the other decided to do its own thing. It's Lucha, shouldn't be expecting it to be like wrestling in other parts of the world for those who view it and attempt to do.


----------



## Stetho

CMLL is good if you want to watch a match here and there to embrass the tradition of lucha libre but to be honest their shows are pretty boring most of the time and AAA is way funnier overall.


----------



## USAUSA1

Cmll only has to draw 300 people to break even. Lucky bastards 

I love cmll and the fact that they value tradition. I don't want them to be like AAA. I don't think the deals with Njpw and Roh benefit cmll. Cmll dont need their wrestlers and they not trying to tour outside Mexico. The only benefit is to keep wrestlers from signing with wwe and AEW. 

Cmll shows can be boring but that because they forgot how to tell stories. Losing televisa years ago hurt their creative. The older guys need to go.

Do anyone follow Puerto Rico lucha? Its getting better, WWL is solid but doesn't have that spark. Wwc is a mess but can be save. The revamped IWA is actually pretty good. The production is cheap but the overall product is fun. If IWA can get money for better production, they will make Puerto Rico relevant again.


----------



## volde

CMLL has been doing Fantasticamania with NJPW for 8 years now. And it looks like they'll start doing joint shows with RoH now as well. So I don't agree that CMLL isn't trying to get out of Mexico.

Anyway, Triplemania was great. I probably would have liked if Psycho got more things to do here, but it is understandable that they simply wanted him to tag along with Cain.


----------



## Sensei Utero

TripleMania was really cool this year. Very, very fun show. Main event was awesome, as well as that Vampiro/Konnan moment.


----------



## USAUSA1

volde said:


> CMLL has been doing Fantasticamania with NJPW for 8 years now. And it looks like they'll start doing joint shows with RoH now as well. So I don't agree that CMLL isn't trying to get out of Mexico.
> 
> Anyway, Triplemania was great. I probably would have liked if Psycho got more things to do here, but it is understandable that they simply wanted him to tag along with Cain.


Those are New Japan events with Cmll talent of course. Most fans in Mexico don't even know about it. But have you seen Cmll do a tour out of Mexico like AAA?


----------



## volde

I get what you mean now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9fWzWWy0_o

Virus/Electrico and Dragon Lee/Volador Jr. are worth watching even thou Volador Jr. looks like he is working thru injuries.


----------



## USAUSA1

Alebrije is just too fat nowadays

Fenix defending his title tonight, tune in now to AAA on twitch


----------



## Greatsthegreats

AAA, please fire that unprofessional pot head Vampiro




USAUSA1 said:


> Cmll only has to draw 300 people to break even. Lucky bastards


how?


----------



## volde

CMLL owns all the buildings that they run their shows in so they get all the money.


----------



## Stetho

Greatsthegreats said:


> AAA, please fire that unprofessional pot head Vampiro
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how?


Fuck those internet twats making video to make fun of AAA without even knowing shit about Lucha Libre just to get random karmas. This is exactly what's wrong with wrestling today.


----------



## Obfuscation

That just makes me want to watch last year's TripleMania again. Fun show, main event was great. 

Fenix's tope con hilo into the crowd is still hilarious & surreal though, because of who he hit. Viva Lucha.


----------



## El Grappleador

In the end, Dr. Wagner Jr. Did not hang the boots. IDK How to react about it. Could be the uptenth AAA Awful booking.


----------



## USAUSA1

El Grappleador said:


> In the end, Dr. Wagner Jr. Did not hang the boots. IDK How to react about it. Could be the uptenth AAA Awful booking.


Aaa never promoted the retirement part. Hair vs mask was AAA promotion. Wagner and Demon added the retirement shit on their own and in Mexico wrestlers has more freedom to do stuff like that.


----------



## Obfuscation

Swerved again.

This is pro wrestling and well, retirement is kind of a word that falls into kayfabe, not actuality.


----------



## Corey

The Grand Prix is my favorite thing that CMLL does every year by far and we got the Rest of the World team announced today. Nothing too special but I love The Briscoes coming over. Wonder how protected Taven will be or if he'll get eliminated by Volador/Rush with their upcoming title matches around the corner. The show is 8/31 but won't air live so idk when it will be able to be seen. No big deal though because we all know 8/31 has a LOT of wrestling on the docket. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1164306424286941184


----------



## volde

Everyone was dreading Dark Magic and Okamura announcements, but they are not in this. 

No one from NJPW is a bit surprising, but they didn't have any top NJPW guys for a while now anyways. I think Elgin would have been in it, but he is gone to Impact now. And last year also had Finlay. Its like, Finlay is good and all that, but who really cares?

Feels like this might come down to Volador/Taven to build up their upcoming title match at Global Wars.


----------



## USAUSA1

After 18 years Titanes en el Ring returns 

https://youtu.be/HFeYQzLskA0


----------



## Corey

Grand Prix will be up on Youtube shortly. Reading about the booking of the match on Twitter though and it uh... sounds like a disaster. :lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1167659030032109568


----------



## Obfuscation

Disaster? Lucha?

Never has such a thing occurred.

Still, could be fun. Don't care for Volador, but oh well.


----------



## Stetho

I don't hate Volador but damn, will CMLL ever even try to make another star?


----------



## Obfuscation

CMLL so traditional, they'll wait until he's in his 70's.


----------



## volde

Cage was announced for main event of anniversary show: Ciber, Gilber, UG, Casas, Cavernario, Big Daddy, Volador.

This is going to be either very stupid or somewhat interesting. Feels like another Volador win is coming.


----------



## USAUSA1

Gilbert vs UG hair match could have sold me because they are legends and can still put on a show when it comes to big important matches .


----------



## Corey

volde said:


> Cage was announced for main event of anniversary show: Ciber, Gilber, UG, Casas, Cavernario, Big Daddy, Volador.
> 
> This is going to be either very stupid or somewhat interesting. Feels like another Volador win is coming.


I read this as Brian Cage being part of the CMLL Anniversary main event and got very confused. :lol

Also had to google this Gilbert fella to know it was Ricky Banderas.  There's too many names in lucha, man.


----------



## Obfuscation

A Mesias vs Ultimo Guerrero apuesta match would be something I'd be _super_ interested in seeing.


----------



## USAUSA1

Obfuscation said:


> A Mesias vs Ultimo Guerrero apuesta match would be something I'd be _super_ interested in seeing.


Anything better than a cage with Byron Wilcott of all people. 

And F Roh, obviously Roh and Cmll is force to deal with each other. Cmll/Lucha fans going to miss Rush from winning the title because they will be watching the anniversary show. Thank you Roh and Cmll for not communicating.


----------



## volde

I get the impression that they'll not stream Anniversary show? And will upload it later like Gran Prix?


----------



## Corey

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1170052895426916357


----------



## Stetho

Really strong card, they probably should have announced those way earlier lol


----------



## Corey

Omega/Fenix may or may not be booked for next month. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1170798777755676672


----------



## USAUSA1

Villano iii jr and Murder Clown are my favorite wrestlers and Samoano 

Rudo Argenis is awesome

Rudo Argenis 










https://www.instagram.com/p/B2LEWeBAeWl/?igshid=ajg25eg5uem1


----------



## Stetho

Argenis finally doing something interesting after all those years lol

I just can't see the new Octagon Jr character ending well, I hope I'm wrong tho.


----------



## USAUSA1

Octagon Jr is the trio's champion lol

Kalisto actually was doing well but wwe snatched him up. Flamita was too big of a name to be someone else plus the outside nonsense wasn't worth it. Golden Magic is not wwe bound or Flamita level popular, so I see him keeping the gimmick for at least two years. 

The good news is that aaa going to push all three gimmicks hard because they own them.


----------



## USAUSA1

Aaa continues to put on great shows, best promotion in the world. Cain is a natural. TAURUS vs Cain is a dream match in the making. Fenix has officially surpassed Pentagon as a wrestler, he's on another level. 

Don't understand why they're still promoting El Rey?


----------



## Stetho

Once again, AAA with the coolest wrestling shows in the world at the moment, hope it finally gets some decent attention.

Putting AAA on El Rey would be an easy move I guess.


----------



## TD Stinger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1177842649715265536





Well, that's interesting.


----------



## USAUSA1

I seen this coming, CMLL wants full control over talent,plain and simple. Unlike AAA they could care less about US expansion. They have a roster over a 100 people and own their own arenas. 

Will New Japan choose sides?


----------



## volde

I think that NJPW likes that Fantasticamania tour. Rob, I think, in that luchblog podcast said how they might just replace it with Bandido and friends, but I don't think that it is that simple. 

Fantasticamania is a well running machine and people now know what to expect from it. Changing most of the guys sounds risky and I doubt that NJPW is interested in taking risks for C-tier tour.


----------



## Stetho

Just waiting for a Rush surprise appearence in AAA :cozy


----------



## USAUSA1

Maybe aaa can pull off the Park vs Rush mask/hair match but probably not since I predict Rush signing with wwe in 2020 despite how much he said he loves roh and blah blah. I think cmll knew this and gave up.


----------



## poldoh

Would love Rush to stay indies, but I doubt that will happen. WWE or NJPW seem like the most likely options.


----------



## USAUSA1

Both Murder and Monsther Clown wrestling tonight. I am happy.


----------



## USAUSA1

Rudo Argenis kicking ass


----------



## poldoh

Aramis was great! Everyone else in the match were not good at all.


----------



## USAUSA1

I wonder where Psycho Clown career would be if he was in lucha underground? It's odd he wasn't used. Aaa got lucky with that one. 

Texano potential US career didn't go nowhere. They gave him a solid push in lucha underground.


----------



## volde

Gran Alternativa finals from CMLL were awesome. Go watch it.


----------



## Corey

Omega vs. Fenix tonight. (Y)


----------



## USAUSA1

Rush in AAA would create a boom period in Mexico. 

Omega should win the title. 

Omega vs Rush is a triplemania caliber main event. Fantasy booking


----------



## TripleG

So I'm hearing Omega Vs. Fenix was flipping amazing. 

Is it worth checking out?


----------



## Miguel De Juan

TripleG said:


> So I'm hearing Omega Vs. Fenix was flipping amazing.
> 
> Is it worth checking out?


Last two matches are worth the show. AAA has tons of young talent.


----------



## Stetho

Damn, still can't believe Kenny won.
Now just give us Rush and it will officially be amazing.


----------



## Alexander_G

TripleG said:


> So I'm hearing Omega Vs. Fenix was flipping amazing.
> 
> Is it worth checking out?


It was incredible! Probably the best Lucha match I have seen in years. He's now the AAA Mega Champion.


----------



## TD Stinger

They put the entire Omega vs. Fenix match on Youtube.


----------



## Oliver552

Pradhan Mantri Jan Dhan Yojana In Hindi (PMJDY)
https://pradhanmantri-yogana.in/pradhan-mantri-jan-dhan-yojana/


----------



## Corey

Huge announcements and a big card and AAA will... not be streaming this live. :lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192645432993832960


----------



## USAUSA1

Looks like a tv contract situation are preventing them from airing LIVE.

Penta and Fenix signs with AAA.


----------



## Stetho

Fuck me this is awesome


----------



## Stetho

The Blue Demon/Villano III Jr alliance looks like a great idea. Classic rudo feel.


----------



## USAUSA1

If this leads to Villano 3 Jr main eventing, I am all for it.


----------



## Even Flow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1200622484896260096


----------



## USAUSA1

I don't know how and why but hopefully they don't make him boring.


----------



## Psychosocial

Does that mean he's done with ROH?


----------



## Stetho

Wooow, dumbest decision he could have make?


----------



## volde

Stetho said:


> Wooow, dumbest decision he could have make?


Is it? It didn't look like he was going anywhere in AAA.


----------



## MC

CMLL isn't known for career progression either but with Rush gone, there is a spot for a guaranteed main eventer, I suppose.


----------



## Psychosocial

AAA want to use the Elite and Moxley for a big show in the near future, according to rumors.

What exactly are AAA's plans as far as the U.S. market goes? They've got talent exchange relationships with 3 of the big 6 promotions in the country, they ran shows in NY and LA this year, and I remember reading a while back they were supposed to air on El Rey Network after LU went down but don't know what happened to that. Are they going for a NJPW-like expansion here, a product to enter the crowded market, or what? There's got to be a reason for all their business here in 2019, especially.


----------



## USAUSA1

Watching cubsfan triplemania regia stream, Omega vs Dragon lee match is crazy fun.


----------



## USAUSA1

AAA is the Promotion of the Year hands down. Quality of shows and matches.


----------



## Stetho

USAUSA1 said:


> AAA is the Promotion of the Year hands down. Quality of shows and matches.


Still gonna be rated "worst promotion of the year" by dumb US nerds who don't even watch it and know nothing about it


----------



## Corey

Does anyone knows if a version of Omega vs. Dragon Lee exists online where the audio isn't out of sync? The one that cubsfan uploaded bothers me too much



Stetho said:


> Still gonna be rated "worst promotion of the year" by dumb US nerds who don't even watch it and know nothing about it


I think WWE has that one covered


----------



## Psychosocial

Psychosocial said:


> AAA want to use the Elite and Moxley for a big show in the near future, according to rumors.
> 
> What exactly are AAA's plans as far as the U.S. market goes? They've got talent exchange relationships with 3 of the big 6 promotions in the country, they ran shows in NY and LA this year, and I remember reading a while back they were supposed to air on El Rey Network after LU went down but don't know what happened to that. Are they going for a NJPW-like expansion here, a product to enter the crowded market, or what? There's got to be a reason for all their business here in 2019, especially.


No one has an answer for this?


----------



## xsw

Psychosocial said:


> No one has an answer for this?


Lucha Underground was their expansion plan. Now, who knows, they won't go out and laid out their plans...

What's njpw plan? or AEW? I'm under the impression they just want to make the same thing wwe does but they think with "better in ring workrate we'll have better revenue" which I'm not sure it will work out... 

My guess is AAA want's to become some kind of "content provider", get dozens or even hundreds of characters and have them touring USA or the world but not in the same shows like wwe, their approach may be like being the "go to guys" for promotions needing some outsourcing, having a dozen guys in US indies, another batch in AEW, another in Europe, Impact, Japan, etc. I don't think AAA can sustain having Faccion Ingobernable, Lucha Bros, Wagners/old timers, Psycho Clowns, etc, they're too many of them and only one main event, so sending guys away while building a new wave of lucha guys could work.

Could work, but it surely will blow up in their face eventually, once the guys figure out they can book themselves in the indies without having to give a cut to AAA.


----------



## USAUSA1

I predict 2020 will be a good year for Cmll. They are pushing Bandido. I think Atlantis Jr will get better. 

Aaa will be great as usual but I want too see they go all in with Vikingo. Give him that super push Psycho got. Speaking of Psycho, will we FINALLY get the apuesta match with Escorpion? Mask vs Hair


----------



## xsw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212540201374846976
"No pasa nada" CMLL drew 3 shows in the 10-15+k range last month, and possibly another couple this week, they'll do good as usual.

There won't be Rush/Park and they'll demand to be fed cabelleras and masks and eventually leave, and trash talk AAA as usual. The main event will suffer but the rest will be strong.

For the year and the decade, both AAA/CMLL are in the position where they need to push young stars but they're afraid they'll jump ship (to wwe or even other foreing companies). Same old same old for AAA, but may be new for Consejo. They know their shit, they're building up Nueva Dinamita so that the new tecnicos get over by beating them, but they'll take their time. Wouldn't rule out Scorpion and Texano Jr (or similar level guys) jumping in to feud/put over Dinamitas NG as they are not really fully developed yet. 

Although the big promotions are becoming something of "feeder leagues", the pendulum may swing the other way eventually, Andrade, Fantasma, Garzases, Metalik will eventually be too old for the E but will come back as bigger stars which will help to fill the void of the new stars from that time leaving, so in a way going international will be part of their development.


----------



## volde

USAUSA1 said:


> I think Atlantis Jr will get better.


I'm honestly surprised by how good he already is. And CMLL is really careful about how they are using him. When he debuted I was sure that he was going to immediately win some tournament, but he is quietly doing solid work in trios matches and I really liked his lighting match against Villano kid. If he won something big this year then I think some fans would have reacted negatively to it and saying that he won only due to his name, but I feel like audience is probably now ready for some big Atlantis Jr. wins in 2020.

Another surprise is Dulce Gardenia, that hair vs hair match was all him and crowd was really into him. Could see him becoming a big deal in next couple of years as well.

As for Bandido, I wonder how long this is going to last, maybe he just wants to do couple of big feuds in Arena Mexico and then leaves?


----------



## xsw

> As for Bandido, I wonder how long this is going to last, maybe he just wants to do couple of big feuds in Arena Mexico and then leaves?


I've not followed the news but it seems people hate ROH now but Flamita recently signed there and that could mean Bandido will renew, I mean, everyone trash talks about their time in WCW but the Mexicans never complained, LA Park has said he never imagined they could make that much $$$ and that he got "set for life" over there... Similarily, maybe Bandido and Flamita think they're doing very well in ROH... and maybe having a deal in ROH means that Flamita will join Bandido in CMLL and they'll have good runs. 

Wonder if Bandido (or maybe Soberano) will end up joining Guerreros Laguneros, they probably need to kick Ultimo out and make Euphoria the leader and have UG working with the legends now, give Ultimo and Buca a last run.


----------



## USAUSA1

Aaa has been through a lot. Losing two of your biggest stars to freak accidents within 5 years is crazy. Plus they loss an owner(for a 2nd time btw) and the head trainer. Its hard


----------



## USAUSA1

Cmll decided to create a Santo rip off and this person will be called Diamond.


----------



## 304418

Psychosocial said:


> AAA want to use the Elite and Moxley for a big show in the near future, according to rumors.
> 
> What exactly are AAA's plans as far as the U.S. market goes? They've got talent exchange relationships with 3 of the big 6 promotions in the country, they ran shows in NY and LA this year, and I remember reading a while back they were supposed to air on El Rey Network after LU went down but don't know what happened to that. Are they going for a NJPW-like expansion here, a product to enter the crowded market, or what? There's got to be a reason for all their business here in 2019, especially.





xsw said:


> Lucha Underground was their expansion plan. Now, who knows, they won't go out and laid out their plans...
> 
> What's njpw plan? or AEW? I'm under the impression they just want to make the same thing wwe does but they think with "better in ring workrate we'll have better revenue" which I'm not sure it will work out...
> 
> My guess is AAA want's to become some kind of "content provider", get dozens or even hundreds of characters and have them touring USA or the world but not in the same shows like wwe, their approach may be like being the "go to guys" for promotions needing some outsourcing, having a dozen guys in US indies, another batch in AEW, another in Europe, Impact, Japan, etc. I don't think AAA can sustain having Faccion Ingobernable, Lucha Bros, Wagners/old timers, Psycho Clowns, etc, they're too many of them and only one main event, so sending guys away while building a new wave of lucha guys could work.
> 
> Could work, but it surely will blow up in their face eventually, once the guys figure out they can book themselves in the indies without having to give a cut to AAA.


Lucha Underground can still be the plan. But there are a few things to consider before a resurrection and reboot:

a) It will need to be 18A this time. A lot of the critically acclaimed shows watched in America tend to be 18A/TV-MA, and it would fill a needed void for adult wrestling characters that are appealing for adults, since they behave like adults. They would also be taking advantage of the current superhero craze right now, due to the lucha masks and personas.

b) They’ll need a streaming service. Either get back on Netflix, or go to a different one like Disney+.

c) Release a new video game; Heroes del Ring was decent. Or license some of their roster and events (both LU & AAA) for use in the AEW video game. They’re already in a partnership with them; may as well make the most of it.

d) Possibly do an invasion angle with AEW and maybe Impact involving LU.

e) Make sure the wrestlers are paid properly this time.

f) If they want to tour smaller venues all over the US (and maybe Mexico and Canada too) instead of sticking to one locale this time, it’s up to them.


----------



## EstrellaFugaz

*Lucha Memes Coacalco Square Garden 8/3-20 REVIEW*
Multy/Prayer vs Robin/Avisman **1/2

Solid. Fell apart in the middle, a few botched spots but very good technical wrestling from time to time and they held it together for finish. Multy did very little for some reason. He spent 90% of match on the apron.

Virus vs Judas el Traidor ****1/2

Excellent match. Bloody brawl with psychology I've rarely seen. They really gave off the impression they legit wanted to kill eachother. Innovative submissions I've never seen before. Crowd was hotter than the sun. MOTYC

Navarro/Terry vs Impulso & Belial ***1/4

Lots of brawling, chairshots and illegal holds. Terry couldn't quite keep up the pace and Belial did very little and seemed out of place. Navarro put on impressive holds as always. Impulso bled a lot and was beaten up badly throughout the match, but sold it well and had an impressive performance and also dived onto me.

Ricky Marvin vs Perro de Guerrera **2/4

Decent match, back and forth. Nothing spectacular. Marvin can still go but doesn't seem interested in trying anything new. Crowd rooted heavily for Perro, which was surprising to me.

Maldito/Divino vs Kamikazes vs Gremlin y Garrabo Punk ***1/2

Short and chaotic match. Your typical good AAA opener. Iron Kid especially stood out as the best worker by far. Alas de Acero did his Shooting Star Press, Cavernario style. Divino did better then I expected, Maldito seemed lost at times. The crowd was very hot.

Ledesma announced on microphone that no Atlantis Jr. or Titan would appear due to politics and gave his sincere apologies.

Arez vs Aramis ****

Originally one fall. Ended up being three falls after screwy finishes and unhappy crowd wanting more. Arez won first fall but with very fast count. Aramis pinned Arez quick in a second fall after a low blow and a spinning powerbomb. Arez ended up winning third fall. Both guys gave it their all, wrestling at extremely high pace and had incredible and innovative sequences as usual. Only reason it's only four stars is the confusion with how many falls they were doing, Aramis shrugged at me at ringside like he didn't even know what they were doing anymore. The in ring work was excellent, no surprise given the two involved.

It was a very enjoyable show, I had a great time there and talked to a lot of people. Including people actually coming up to me and recognizing me as Doradafan which was surprising but cool! Nice to finally meet Daniel Ledesma, long time coming. Arena Coliseo Coacalco is a very special place with a special aura that has to be experienced if you have the chance!

This was not televised and you will never see the full matches on Youtube. However LuchaTv channel on Youtube might have highlights eventually.


----------



## USAUSA1

Alcon Television Group Nabs Mexican Wrestling Drama ‘Luchador’ From Diego Gutierrez


EXCLUSIVE: In a competitive situation, Alcon Television Group has acquired the rights to Diego Gutierrez’s (From Dusk Till Dawn: The Series, Without a Trace) Mexican wrestling drama Luchador. Writt…



deadline.com





*EXCLUSIVE:* In a competitive situation, Alcon Television Group has acquired the rights to Diego Gutierrez’s (_From Dusk Till Dawn: The Series, Without a Trace)_ Mexican wrestling drama _Luchador._

Written by Gutierrez, _Luchador_ is a character-driven action drama about a fictional, Lucha Libre-inspired city run by colorful gangs of Mexican Wrestlers at the brink of tyranny, and the unlikely young wrestler who becomes its champion and savior, both inside and outside the ring.

Gutierrez will serve as executive producer alongside Alcon Television Group’s Andrew Kosove, Broderick Johnson and Ben Roberts. Roberts brought the project into Alcon, which will take the project to market later this year.

“We are thrilled to work with Diego in this exciting world he has envisioned for these rich characters,” said Kosove and Johnson. “Creatively we see this as ripe ground for many types of stories in many different mediums.”

Gutierrez is best known as the creator and executive producer of popular Spanish-language Netflix series _Monarca_ starring Irene Azuela and Juan Manuel Bernal. His previous credits include writer and executive producer on _From Dusk Till Dawn: The Series_, as well as Syfy Networks’ _Warehouse 13_ and Paramount Network’s _Buffy the Vampire Slayer._

Gutierrez is managed by A.B. Fischer at Literate and attorney Bruce Gellman.


----------



## El Grappleador

I've read Hijo del Santo Proposed Octagon, Fuerza Guerrera and Atlantis on a four way match betting their respective masks. That would sell well if they were not on their sunset years.


----------



## USAUSA1

It can still sell out but the quality would suck. Atlantis can barely walk.

Santo vs Demon or Park or Rush hair is much better. 

Santo need to hurry up and end his career on a strong point because these last 15 years have been weak and he is getting old. His son took a break to go to college,he might not come back. Atlantis Jr is really good and probably the future of Cmll.


----------



## 304418

This is an interesting development…



> AAA possibly buying CMLL was referenced on MLW Pulp Fiction and apparently there is some truth to the story. CMLL is in the midst of internal tensions involving different factions following the passing of Paco Alonso.











411MANIA | Various News: AAA Buying CMLL Rumor, MLW Von Erichs Filming, MLW Merchandise Sales Up


Various News: AAA Buying CMLL Rumor, MLW Von Erichs Filming, MLW Merchandise Sales Up




411mania.com





AAA making moves! Ties to Impact, AEW & MLW; US expansion plans; and now possibly buying CMLL. If that happens and they do buy CMLL, I wonder if they will try to establish NJPW ties next? The wrestling landscape would definitely change overnight if they were successful in doing so.

Its a big deal for me, considering that I've been watching more and more lucha libre during Covid, CMLL specifically. CMLL is the bridge that allows me to enjoy both NJPW and the world of lucha libre. Before, its been usually one (NJPW) or the other (AAA), since their respective styles and approaches to wrestling are so radically different.


----------



## USAUSA1

Its 100% false and was a joke made by Salina on mlw.pulp fiction.


----------



## 304418

Sure fooled the news organization reporting it.


----------



## 304418

What is the state of streaming services for lucha libre?

I know that AAA has both a Twitch channel (an English stream and an Espanol stream) and their Youtube channel. And CMLL has their Youtube channel.

I also know that they have both aired one show each of FITE (AAA Invades NY, CMLL 86th Anniversario through ROH). I’m surprised that there haven’t been more AAA & CMLL events added to FITE to buy, since basically every other promotion is on there. Even WWE and NJPW are on FITE (Wrestlemania preshow; 4 NJPW events/year) and they have their own streaming services. What gives?!? Is it just perceived that there's no audience for lucha libre in the US, Canada, Europe, etc? Or are their legal reasons as to why nothing has happened on that front?


----------



## USAUSA1

Post Covid, CMLL is doing everything through Ticketmaster streaming service. Mas Lucha has a new streaming service through YouTube for $8 per month. Aaa is still on hiatus but usually put all LIVE shows on twitch with both Spanish and English.


----------



## USAUSA1

It sucks Villano iii jr left AAA and Vikingo taking a year off.

The autolucha show was fun, can't wait to see more. Laredo Kid might be the best in the world.


----------



## USAUSA1

AAA is LIVE on Facebook https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...e&player_format=permalink&ref=watch_permalink


----------



## Mercian

Thanks so much for this, greatly appreciated 💪


----------



## USAUSA1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1331643821071998977
I watched the first four episodes, its ok. Great production, the wrestling is fine but the storyline is hard to follow. Something about the four rings, four different groups/land. Each wrestler belongs to a certain group and the first group to gain all four rings and a million points win. I think that's the storyline lol.

Famous B is a commentator.

Rey Mysterio,Dragon Lee, Mistico II, LA Park,Blue Demon,Damian 666 is all on the show. It was taped two years ago.

I wish these companies would get behind AAA or even a IWRG instead of stuff like HOLL,Masked Warriors,WSX. Lucha Underground was close but even they held AAA back.


----------



## USAUSA1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333464773900587011


----------



## USAUSA1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334972768027353088


----------



## USAUSA1

Lucha Libre Factory Made Ventures Files Lawsuit Against Lucha Libre AAA — Lucha Central


Lucha Libre AAA has been sued by Lucha Underground's former production company, with previously unknown details revealed.




luchacentral.com





Wow


----------



## famicommander

USAUSA1 said:


> Lucha Libre Factory Made Ventures Files Lawsuit Against Lucha Libre AAA — Lucha Central
> 
> 
> Lucha Libre AAA has been sued by Lucha Underground's former production company, with previously unknown details revealed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> luchacentral.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow


AAA is such a gong show. It's like they're booked by the drunken child of Vince Russo and Konnan with Paul Heyman and Herb Abrams doing the business operations.


----------



## USAUSA1

famicommander said:


> AAA is such a gong show. It's like they're booked by the drunken child of Vince Russo and Konnan with Paul Heyman and Herb Abrams doing the business operations.


But judging from the lawsuit, they making more money outside Mexico than I thought. This not including the TV azteca, Mexico sponsors and LIVE gate money.

They are stupid for selling their rights because they were trying to expand into the US. Its not worth the trouble. This is why CMLL don't even try to bother expanding outside Mexico. 

This will probably be settle out of court.


----------



## famicommander

USAUSA1 said:


> But judging from the lawsuit, they making more money outside Mexico than I thought. This not including the TV azteca, Mexico sponsors and LIVE gate money.
> 
> They are stupid for selling their rights because they were trying to expand into the US. Its not worth the trouble. This is why CMLL don't even try to bother expanding outside Mexico.
> 
> This will probably be settle out of court.


Those Pluto TV numbers are encouraging at least. Impact, ROH, and MLW all have content on that platform, plus similar like STIRR and Fubo.


----------



## kowalik2594

What do you guys think about this potential new big promotion in Mexico?

In my opinion, if these rumors turn out to be true and this promotion survives on the market for a year and a half, it will be a success. We all remember Nacion Lucha Libre, there were also supposed to be rich investors and big plans, and the company folded after a few months. The Crash also was presented at the beginning as potential next big thing on Mexican wrestling scene and now it's just one of many promotions in this country.

And btw, I'm not talking about Rush's promotion, it's completely different thing.


----------



## USAUSA1

We seen this too many times. The market is not big enough for 3 major promotions. Since AAA is with Azteca and Cmll is with televisa, not sure what other TV networks they can go to that will matter. Imagen TV is ok I guess but Nacion Lucha is supposed to be coming back.

What talent want to leave AAA and Cmll to sign exclusively with a new organization with no tv? Unless they offering crazy contracts and you know how that goes. 

Good luck to the New promotion. Whatever they do, they should sign 3 tecnicos and 3 rudos from the indies they want to build around. Sign them for years and do a slow build to the first apuesta match.

Rush promotion will most likely work with AAA.


----------



## USAUSA1

Finally they are pulling the trigger on this match.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1404151586113327110


----------



## USAUSA1

I want to get back into cmll but I am not paying $10 per week for it.


----------



## USAUSA1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1404471273745432579


----------



## Aedubya

This the AAA thread then?


----------



## USAUSA1

Triplemania is live on tik tok for everyone


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

The yellow ring AAA switched to is such an eyesore.





Here's a random match I like


----------



## USAUSA1




----------



## USAUSA1

Cibernetico back in AAA


----------



## USAUSA1

It's been 29 days since a post. Wow, how much has lucha libre fallen?

Did Lucha Underground and Konnan kill lucha libre?


----------



## USAUSA1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491195694975225859


----------



## thorwold

USAUSA1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491195694975225859


That's how it started, and here's how it ended:


----------



## 3venflow

Fenix vs. Vikingo while it lasts... an amazing spectacle as expected.


----------



## Outlaw91

Is there any other (official) way of watching CMLL shows outside of YouTube? 
I watched the 89th Anniversary Show there but there are only 3 matches, 2 mask vs mask matches and the 3 way elimination match.


----------



## USAUSA1

Good too see aaa tv is back to somewhat storytelling and not a mexico pwg.


----------

